Podcasts about story engine

Discussing the latest Doctor Who episode 'The Story & The Engine' starring Ncuti Gatwa and Varada Sethu, Adam becomes philosophical about subtext and who owns the stories we love. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  Synopsis When  and  land in  for another  reading, the Doctor goes to a  to meet an old . There, he discovers a mysterious  trapping the patrons, feeding  with their stories. Plot  sits in a chair, getting a haircut, and tells a story about  the , his village saved by the mysterious man in the blue box. As he speaks, images splay out on the wall behind him, depicting his story to the men listening eagerly. As he finishes, they all look at a pair of lights on the wall in tense anticipation, relaxing when they switch from red to green. Omo tells the others not to worry, the Doctor always comes, and the light switches back to red, alarms blare, and the room shakes.  insists that the  take her home, and he suggests that they head to , , the communications hub of , and a place he loves - home of his favorite barbershop. Belinda expresses confusion at this - the  can do his hair; but he explains that it's about community, about being himself, since it's the first time he's ever been a black man. Belinda understands and sends him off to enjoy himself in Lagos after he takes a  reading. The Doctor winds his way through a market, greeting everyone as he passes, before he comes to his friend Omo's barbershop, , finding those assembled in the middle of a story. As the door closes behind him an alarm goes off in the TARDIS, alerting Belinda that something has gone wrong. The Doctor notices that everyone present is on missing posters outside, and he watches as the man's hair grows back. The light in the barbershop flashes to red, people scramble to decide who still has a story left, and someone sits down, telling the story of  and a , of music and of time. As images flicker on the wall, the Doctor looks on in wonder, and asks how it works, begins testing by throwing out words from his travels. But it has to be a story, it has to be with a haircut. A new  has taken over the shop, he came one day, and as if by magic the shop became his. A woman enters the barbershop, , bringing food, the door closes behind her, and an alarm in the TARDIS sounds again. The Doctor recognizes her, but can't place her. The light switches to red again, and the Doctor sits down, telling the most powerful story he knows, not of  or , but of an ordinary life. Of Belinda Chandra doing her job, helping someone all night long, even on her grandmother's birthday, a simple gesture of thanks two weeks later. Abby watches a screen in another room, seeing it lighting up, noting that they're accelerating, as the story ends. The Barber is impressed with the power of his stories, and tells Abby when she comes out that they need to recalibrate . Omo asks if they can be let free now that the Doctor has come, his stories being effective, his hair having grown in the interim more than any of theirs. But Abby locks the door and the pair leave. The TARDIS sounds an alarm yet again, this time showing Belinda an image of the barbershop. The Doctor is furious that Omo betrayed him, is willing to trap him here, and refuses to listen as everyone tries to tell him not to open the door. He forces it open with his sonic screwdriver, finding a vacuum on the other side. A vacuum with only giant web and a large spider traversing it, the barbershop on the back of the spider. The Doctor closes the door with great effort, and the Barber emerges from the backroom, explaining that the shop is in Lagos and in outer space at the same time, only Abby and himself able to travel between. Outside, Belinda finds herself lost, but is pointed towards the shop by a , entering it, glad to see the Doctor. Reunited, the pair confront the Barber, calling him a coward who hides his face, having no real power. Rising to the taunt, the Barber names himself, calling himself , , , , , the god of stories. The pair burst out laughing - the Doctor has met Bastet, Sága, Dionysus, Anansi. He's partied with them, Anansi even tricked him to marry his daughter. This man isn't any of them. And so the man admits, he's the person who did their work for them. Wherever the gods went, he took their stories, cleaned them up, refined them, wrote them down, all for humans to repeat them, to keep the gods alive. Without him the gods would not exist. The web outside is his creation as well, the , a web that connects cultures and ideas. He was so successful that the gods abandoned him, and now he wants vengeance. The engine winds down, so much power drained from the Doctor opening the door. Abby criticizes him, and the Doctor recognizes her at last - Anansi's daughter, Abena. He's sorry that he was unable to help her, but he was a  at the time, and had his own story. The light turns red, and the Barber insists the Doctor tell a story. The Doctor refuses, demanding to know what vengeance is being planned. The Barber relents - he plans to cut out the gods from memory when he reaches the center of the nexus, erasing them from existence. The Doctor is horrified, this will damage humanity, as it will harm their ability to tell stories, to pass down information, insisting that this is horrific. He refuses to sit down and speak, he won't let the spider go further. As the shop descends into chaos, everyone arguing, Abena proclaims that she will tell a story, and begins to braid the Doctor's hair. And she tells a story of plantation slaves transmitting information through the braids on their hair, maps to freedom for anyone who could escape, hidden in a place where the overseers would never check. As the battery stabilizes, the Doctor and Belinda run into the back room, finding themselves in a maze, a maze for which the Doctor has the map on his head. The pair come to a room full of artifacts from various cultures and the ship's engine, an engine that runs on stories, a heart inside a brain. The Barber enters the room behind them, having cut Abena off from the outside, the Doctor disrupting the flow of power, slowing the spider down but not stopping it. The Barber insists that the Doctor has done nothing. So the Doctor suggests that they consider , who wrote a story in six words. The Doctor's six word story is "I'm born. I die. I'm born." And energy begins to flow into the engine, never-ending energy, as his past lives flicker across the screens. But the Doctor has disrupted the engine, it can't process the power. He tells the Barber that now it's his choice - he can save the people in the shop by opening the door. But the engine will disintegrate. The Barber unlocks the door and Omo, Adena and the rest out front escape. The Doctor sends Belinda back as he sits with the Barber, talking to him, convincing him that he still has more to live for. The pair escape the shop at the last moment as it collapses, the engine exploding, destroying the spider it rode on. Omo apologizes to the Doctor, and says that he should have protected the Doctor, they're part of the same community. The two make up. Omo gives the Barber his shop, saying that he's retiring, and gives him a name, his father's name, . Adétòkunbo steps back into the barbershop, now his. The Doctor and Belinda step back into the TARDIS, one step closer to home. Cast  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  Crew          ,  and  with  and                             by   •   by   Music  by   •  Assistant to  -    •   performed by               General production staff  for the  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   - ,   - ,   -  Script department  -   -  Camera and lighting department  - ,   -   -   - ,   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   - , , ,  Art department  - ,   - ,   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   - ,   -   - , , , , , ,   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   - ,   -   - , ,   - ,   - , , , , , , , , , , ,  Costume department  -   -  Make-up and prosthetics Movement  -   -   -  Casting  -   -  General post-production staff  -   -   -   -   -  Special and visual effects  -   -   -   -   - ,   -  Sound  -   -   -   -                                                            Not every person who worked on this adventure was credited. The absence of a credit for a position doesn't necessarily mean the job wasn't required. The information above is based solely on observations of the actual end credits of the episodes as broadcast, and does not relay information from IMDB or other sources.     Worldbuilding  claims to be , , , , and . In return, the Doctor relates encounters he had with all of those deities: winning a bet against Anansi, having a drinking contest with Dionysus that caused a  in , watching  movies with Sága, and losing a game of  to Bastet. The  has a large collection of artefacts related to stories. The room of shelves includes a  , several , a  statue of , a life-sized statue of a bearded man, , a helmet, copies of , , and , and a statue of a . The area around the heart has a statue of a dancing  goddess, a , a , a statue of an , a model , several , , and a . Notes The episode has a smooth transition from the "" into the , with the title sequence first appearing in the shop window, and then the camera slowly zooming closer until the image fills the frame and the window fades away. The title of the episode was revealed on official social media on  . On , the prequel short story , also written by , was published on the . Some of the artwork from it was shown on the shop window in this episode when  was telling his story of the Doctor. The story shares many themes and ideas with other work by Ellams. The 2017 play Barber Shop Chronicles prominently explored  as places of friendship and culture. It featured many barber shops, including one in . A version of the story about  and the  was part of this play. The 2019 play The Half-God of Rainfall depicted a world in which the gods of all religions coexist as separate figures who interact and fight with each other.  appeared, presented as the  of stories. Ellams viewed the character  as echoing the title character of this play, as both are newly-invented children of gods. The 2020 poetry book The Actual had a poem about the Yo-Yo Ma story, as well as a poem comparing rapping to time travel which mentions Doctor Who. The Yo-Yo Ma anecdote is based on the musician's trip to  which was filmed for the 1993 documentary Distant Echoes: Yo-Yo Ma & the Kalahari Bushmen. For the UK debut on , the episode was first released as an audio description version only. The standard version of the episode was then released a few minutes later. Episode writer  appears as a , marking the second time a person has written and acted in the same episode, following  in  [+].  as  and  as the  were omitted from the advance credits. The  anecdote of challenging him to write a story in six words appears to be referencing 'For sale: baby shoes, never worn.', a story misattributed to Hemingway. Myths to be added Filming locations to be added Ratings to be added Production errors If you'd like to talk about narrative problems with this story — like plot holes and things that seem to contradict other stories — please go to . to be added   The Doctor uses the , as he previously did in :  [+], :  [+], :  [+] and :  [+]. 's cameo, for the first time, occurs in a flashback rather than the present, in the story the Doctor recounts about how Belinda saved a  life. She's seen walking down the hallway just before Belinda meets the patient again and is given flowers. The Doctor recognises Abby from his encounter with  when he was the , indicating he now has access to some of the memories that were erased by . Belinda sees an apparition of  just before she reaches the barber shop. When she later tells the Doctor about seeing a little girl, he guesses it was due to stories from the Story Engine leaking out. When the Doctor overcharges the engine with his endless story, it is shown with clips of the  from :  [+], the  in :  [+], the  in :  [+], the  in :  [+], the  in :  [+], the  in :  [+] with audio from :  [+], audio of the  from :  [+], the  in :  [+], the  in :  [+], the  in :  [+], the  in :  [+], , , and the  in :  [+] (saying the line heard earlier), the  in :  [+] and the  in :  [+]. Clips of the  in :  [+], the  in : "" [+], the Twelfth Doctor in :  [+] and a still of the Fifteenth Doctor in :  [+] appear in the background of the following scene. in article: External links Official  page on  Footnotes  @BBC (2025-03-22). . YouTube. Archived from  on 2025-03-22.   (2025-05-08). . . Archived from  on 2025-05-08.  Amanda-Rae Prescott (2025-05-10). . Den of Geek. Archived from  on 2025-05-11.  . BBC One. Archived from  on 2025-04-30.

Adam embraces his ignorance and willingness to learn when discussing the latest Doctor Who episode 'The Story & The Engine' starring Ncuti Gatwa and Varada Sethu. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

More Ketchup with Kim on the latest Doctor Who episode 'The Story & The Engine' and Adam has a potentially racist theory. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ketchup with Kim and Adam's Tangents on the latest Doctor Who episode, 'The Story & The Engine' starring Ncuti Gatwa and Varada Sethu. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Adam is blown away by the mythic quality of the latest Doctor Who episode 'The Story & The Engine' starring Ncuti Gatwa and Varada Sethu, with a very exciting cameo that has him vibrating on a frequency only dogs can hear. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Power of Storytelling in Business: Insights from Kyle Gray

In this episode of The Bearded Nerd Podcast, I sat down with Miroki and Peter who are part of the core team on The Story Engine Deck. The Story Engine Deck is an open-ended prompt creation tool that allows writers and Game Masters to generate endless story ideas, creative writing prompts, and D&D campaign ideas.  We spoke about their initial founding, the inspiration behind the Deck, and insights into the various decks and their possibilities (roughly 30 billion). If you enjoyed this episode and want to see what these decks entail, check out their website linked here. If you decide to purchase a deck or five, be sure to use: BEARDEDNERD10 for 10% off your order! Enjoy and Keep Gaming!

On this episode of the Story Engine podcast, we discusses the 'Experts Gap'—the disconnect that occurs when experts fail to effectively communicate their knowledge to their audience. We emphasize the importance of understanding audience needs, overcoming misconceptions about structure in talks, and the anatomy of a high converting presentation. By focusing on authority stories, addressing audience beliefs, and creating urgency for action, experts can bridge the gap and enhance their impact. The episode concludes with a success story illustrating the transformative power of structured communication.   In This Episode The Experts Gap occurs when experts fail to connect with their audience. Experts often design messages that satisfy their own understanding rather than the audience's needs. Structure in communication is not inauthentic; it enhances clarity and connection. A well-structured talk allows for emotional connection and audience engagement. The anatomy of a high converting talk includes three key questions: Should I listen to this? Will this work for me? Should I act now? Authority stories help establish trust and relevance with the audience. Addressing audience beliefs is crucial for effective communication. Creating urgency for action is essential for conversions. Structure liberates creativity and amplifies authenticity in presentations. Success stories demonstrate the effectiveness of structured communication. We Discuss 02:33 The Misconceptions of Expert Communication 05:57 Anatomy of a High Converting Talk 08:47 Crafting Authority Stories 11:58 Addressing Audience Beliefs 14:54 Creating Urgency for Action 17:45 The Power of Structure in Storytelling 20:02 Real-Life Success Story: Nima Ramani 23:00 Conclusion and Call to Action

On this episode of the Story Engine podcast, Kyle Gray interviews Hector Santiesteban from Amplify Media, discussing the evolution of podcasting and its significance for businesses. Hector shares insights on creating sustainable podcasts, the importance of understanding the audience, and overcoming imposter syndrome. He introduces the 'Three P's' framework for successful podcasting, emphasizing authenticity and emotional resonance. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by executives in the podcasting landscape and the transformative power of sharing personal stories.   In This Episode Every business could benefit from podcasting. Understanding your audience is crucial for success. Authenticity resonates more than high production value. The sales cycle can be shortened through effective podcasting. Imposter syndrome is common among executives starting podcasts. The 'Three P's' framework is essential for podcasting success. Creating a personal connection with the audience is key. Podcasts can serve as a powerful marketing tool. It's important to focus on your unique experiences. Podcasting is an infinite game, not a one-time win.   We Discuss 11:06 Understanding the Audience 18:11 The Challenges Executives Face 25:22 Burnout and the Need for Clarity 29:49 The Desire to Be Seen 35:55 The Journey of Transformation 42:27 Connecting and Closing Thoughts    

On this episode of the Story Engine podcast, host Kyle Gray speaks with Adrianna Foster, a clinical hypnotherapist and transformational trainer. They explore the power of hypnotherapy in addressing deep-seated belief systems and the subconscious mind. Adrianna shares her insights on the importance of embracing discomfort for personal growth, the role of shadow work in healing, and the significance of authenticity and self-expression. Through personal stories and unique approaches, they discuss how to identify pain points and desired outcomes in the journey of transformation. In This Episode Hypnotherapy can help address subconscious beliefs that control behavior. Many people struggle with the belief that solutions lie outside themselves. Embracing discomfort is essential for personal growth and transformation. Shadow work involves befriending fears and negative thoughts. Authenticity is key to solving personal and societal problems. Understanding one's gifts is crucial for fulfillment and happiness. Shame and guilt are significant toxic emotions that hinder progress. Personal stories of transformation can inspire others to seek change. Creating a supportive environment is vital for healing and growth. We Discuss 03:42 Understanding Hypnosis and Its Impact 06:30 Belief Systems and Client Transformation 09:41 Embracing Discomfort for Growth 12:50 The Role of Shadow Work in Healing 15:42 Unique Approaches to Client Experiences 18:45 Transformative Stories of Change 21:43 Finding Alignment and Ease in Life 24:44 The Power of Vulnerability and Authenticity 27:34 Closing Thoughts and Resources    

On this episode of the Story Engine podcast, Rich Walker shares his journey as a serial entrepreneur and author, discussing his four-step methodology for personal change. He emphasizes the importance of wanting to change, believing in one's ability to change, and understanding the core beliefs that drive behaviors. Rich reflects on his childhood experiences and how they shaped his perspective on change, as well as the challenges he faced in his business. The conversation highlights the power of beliefs in shaping reality and the significance of storytelling in personal narratives.   In This Episode You have to want to change to initiate the process. Belief in your ability to change is crucial. Childhood experiences can significantly impact your perspective on change. Navigating challenges requires a choice between stress and productivity. Identifying core beliefs is essential for meaningful change. Work on one change at a time for better focus. Your beliefs shape your reality and experiences. Storytelling can enhance the impact of personal narratives. Choosing empowering beliefs leads to personal growth. Embrace change as a constant in life.  We Discuss 05:56 Understanding the Desire to Change 11:59 Navigating Business Challenges and Personal Growth 17:50 The Power of Beliefs in Shaping Reality 24:08 Closing Thoughts and Resources for Change

In our latest episode of Hustle and Flowchart, I had the pleasure of chatting with Kyle Gray. Kyle shared his unique experiences and insights into storytelling, a crucial skill for any entrepreneur. He brought in his background as a semi-nomadic individual and his journey from music to content marketing. We also touched upon the mental aspects of storytelling, the balance between professional image and vulnerability, and practical storytelling frameworks. Kyle Gray's Background and Setup Kyle Gray, the guest for this episode, has always dreamed of having his own office. His current office setup showcases sound-dampening foam, which doubles as an interesting backdrop. Despite his semi-nomadic lifestyle, Kyle emphasizes the value of having a dedicated workspace that fosters creativity and productivity. Music and Storytelling Connection Kyle and I discovered a shared passion for music; both of us are left-handed guitarists. Kyle began his journey as a songwriter, which eventually led him to content marketing. He highlighted how songwriting and storytelling are closely related, both requiring a deep understanding of connecting with an audience. Transition to Content Marketing Kyle transitioned from music to content marketing, particularly focusing on blog posts for startups. He realized that storytelling in business shared similarities with performing music. Over the years, he honed this skill by writing books, conducting workshops, and starting his own agency. This journey underscores the potential for creative skills to adapt and thrive in various fields. Storytelling Framework by Story Engine Kyle developed a storytelling framework he teaches through his company, Story Engine. This formula helps refine messaging by eliminating unnecessary content and focusing on core elements. A particular highlight is the free 45-minute course available on his website, which helps users connect deeply with their audience through storytelling. Teaching and Psychological Aspects Kyle's work often involves reducing excessive teaching content. He addresses the psychological aspects of storytelling, noting that many people have an inferiority complex and a desire to achieve. This understanding helps Kyle assist clients in crafting more impactful stories. Professional Persona vs. Vulnerability Kyle emphasizes the tension many entrepreneurs face between maintaining a polished professional image and revealing their true, vulnerable selves. He believes that showing vulnerability can be more effective in connecting with an audience, as it fosters authenticity and trust. Challenges in Sharing Stories We discussed the resistance successful individuals often have towards sharing personal stories. Many see storytelling as manipulative or less valuable than showcasing their achievements. Kyle counters this by focusing on the emotional connection stories can create, making them a powerful tool for engagement. Free Resources and Techniques One valuable resource I mentioned is a 45-minute lesson on storytelling available through Kyle's company. This lesson includes videos and questions designed to help users refine their storytelling process. Such resources are critical for anyone looking to enhance their storytelling skills effectively. Resources Mentioned: Story Engine Free Course Purpose in Suffering and Personal Growth Kyle highlights the idea of giving purpose to past and present suffering. By revisiting painful memories with a purpose, individuals can find personal growth and business insights. This approach helps turn negative experiences into powerful narratives that resonate with others. Writing and Sharing Personal Narratives Both Kyle and I agree on the importance of documenting and sharing personal stories. Writing allows for deeper connection with audiences and helps individuals uncover new opportunities. Exploring personal history can also be a liberating process that improves business perspective. Mistakes in Storytelling Kyle points out a common mistake in storytelling: limiting stories to an introduction rather than integrating them throughout the narrative. He advises on developing multiple stories rather than relying on a single origin story. This approach ensures a more engaging and dynamic presentation. Descriptive vs. Prescriptive Communication We discussed the difference between prescriptive language (telling people what to do) and descriptive language (showing the results of actions). Kyle emphasizes that descriptive language is more engaging and empowering for the audience, making it a more effective storytelling technique. Case Study on Health Coaching Kyle shared a case study involving a health coach. By focusing on the importance of improving a child's gut health through dietary changes, he showcased how storytelling can communicate benefits effectively. He used reverse psychology to make vegetables more appealing to children, turning them into adventurous eaters. Power of Language and Reframing Kyle's approach to using reverse psychology underscores the power of language and reframing. He advocates for diverse persuasive techniques to enhance communication effectiveness. Joe recognized this method as a way to create connection and intrigue within an audience. Authoring Your Future Kyle shared his personal practice of envisioning and scripting future events. This technique, similar to Jordan Peterson's self-authoring program, helps enhance mental and physical well-being. It allows individuals to visualize and create a clear path towards their goals. Resources from Episode Story Engine Free Course Jordan Peterson's Self-Authoring Program Overall, this episode of Hustle and Flowchart with Kyle Gray delves into the deep and nuanced world of storytelling. Significantly, it highlights how personal narratives can foster connection, reflect authenticity, and drive business success. Kyle's insights and frameworks offer valuable takeaways that any entrepreneur can use to enhance their storytelling skills and overall communication strategy. Two Other Episodes You Should Check Out StoryBrands: Frameworks to Make Marketing Simple with Dr. J.J. Peterson Creating Curiosity Gaps To Capture Audience Attention with Phill Agnew Connect with Joe Fier What if you could have a FREE personal mentor on-demand?! With Joe's Hustle & Flowchart AI clone, you can tap into the knowledge from over 600 episodes any time! Whether you need advice on scaling, marketing, or productivity, my AI clone is here to help. Hubspot has launched a whole new suite of AI Tools, check them on the Hubspot Spotlight Check out other podcasts on the HubSpot Podcast Network Grab a 30-Day Trial of Kartra We want to hear from you. Send us the One Thing you want to hear on the show. Connect with Joe on LinkedIn and Instagram Subscribe to the YouTube Channel Contact Joe: joe@hustleandflowchart.com Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Hustle & Flowchart Podcast! If the information in these conversations and interviews have helped you in your business journey, please head over to iTunes (or wherever you listen), subscribe to the show, and leave me an honest review. Your reviews and feedback will not only help me continue to deliver great, helpful content, but it will also help me reach even more amazing entrepreneurs just like you!

On this episode of the Story Engine podcast, Phil Van Treuren shares his journey as an entrepreneur and author, discussing his experiences in publishing, the influence of Stoic philosophy on his life, and the creation of his publishing company, Stoic Simple. He reflects on the importance of virtue and excellence, the challenges of navigating change, and the fulfillment he finds in his current life. Phil also emphasizes the value of learning from mistakes and the significance of storytelling in connecting with others. On This Episode Phil has reinvented himself multiple times throughout his career. Stoic philosophy has greatly influenced Phil's personal development. The Feather is a story about the impact of small virtues. Virtue in Stoicism can be understood as excellence. Acceptance of things we cannot change is crucial for personal growth. There are always opportunities to practice excellence in any situation. Mistakes are part of the learning process and should not hinder progress. Phil finds happiness in the present without needing more material possessions. Storytelling is a powerful tool for connecting with audiences. Phil's journey reflects the importance of self-belief and perseverance. We Discuss 06:01 The Birth of Stoic Simple 11:56 Understanding Virtue in Stoic Philosophy 18:00 Navigating Change and Acceptance 24:03 Learning from Mistakes and Opportunities 29:53 Reflections on Past Struggles  

In this episode, we dive deep into the world of AI-assisted creative writing with James Yu, founder of Sudowrite. James shares the journey of building an AI assistant for novelists, helping writers develop ideas, manage complex storylines, and avoid clichés. James gets into the backlash the company faced when they first released Story Engine and how they're working to build a community of users.00:00 - Introduction and Background of Sudowrite02:26 - The Early Days: Concept, Skepticism, and User Adoption05:20 - Sudowrite's Interface, Features, and User Base10:23 - Developing and Iterating Features in Sudowrite17:29 - The Evolution of Story Bible and Writing Assistance24:27 - Challenges in Maintaining Coherence and AI-Assisted Writing29:12 - Evaluating AI Features and the Role of Prompt Engineering33:35 - Handling Tropes, Clichés, and Fine-Tuning for Author Voice40:43 - The Controversy and Future of AI in Creative Work51:37 - Predictions for AI in the Next Five Years--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Humanloop is an Integrated Development Environment for Large Language Models. It enables product teams to develop LLM-based applications that are reliable and scalable. To find out more go to humanloop.com

This week on the Story Engine podcast I'm talking about Information vs. Clarity. What is the difference between the two, and what do our listeners want?   One leads to confusion, the other leads to action.   I'll break that down on today's episode and show you exactly a simple shift in perspective in how you approach teaching.   On This Episode The intention you bring to your sales process is crucial. Focusing on the listener's needs and removing barriers creates clarity. Excessive information can overwhelm and confuse the audience. Clarity allows for action and lasting change. Prioritizing clarity in presentations leads to better results. We Discuss   00:00 The Importance of Intention in Sales 01:26 Information vs. Clarity in Sales and Public Speaking 03:50 The Negative Effects of Excessive Information 05:15 Creating Clarity for Action and Lasting Change 07:13 Case Study: Shifting from Information to Clarity 08:12 The Freedom and Authenticity of Clarity

S20 Ep19: In Which Mur Explores the Deck of Worlds and Story Engine "You know, if you use the word 'modified,' you can get away with anything."- Mur Transcript (This post went live for supporters on July 1, 2024. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) Join Mur Lafferty as she dives into a live-streamed session of world-building using the Deck of Worlds and The Story Engine. Despite a challenging week, Mur's creativity shines as she crafts unique settings and characters, from a swamp with carnivorous plants to a compromised cyborg in a cyberpunk universe. This episode is a treasure trove for writers looking to spark their imagination and explore new storytelling tools. Links: The Story Engine Deck of Worlds Madeleine L'Engle Martha Wells The Lost Room Locke & Key Unknown Armies Evergreen Links Catch the show LIVE on Twitch Thursdays, 3pm, Eastern time! Like the podcast? Get the book! I Should Be Writing book. My newsletter, The Hot Mic, and my Patreon. Supporting either of those will get you perks like access to the discord, exclusive content, and early, ad-free episodes. Socials: Bluesky, Mastodon, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Focusmate. Theme by John Anealio Savor I Should Be Writing tea blends Support local book stores! Station Eternity, Six Wakes, Solo: A Star Wars Story: Expanded Edition and more! OR Get signed books from my friendly local store, Flyleaf Books! All books featured in Season 20   "Deck of Worlds: Unleashing Creativity in Fiction" is brought to you in large part by by my supporters, who received an early, expanded version of this episode. You can join our Fabulist community with a pledge on Patreon or Substack! Some of the links above may be affiliate, allowing you to support the show at no extra cost to you. Also consider leaving a review for ISBW, please! CREDITS Theme song by John Anealio, art by Numbers Ninja,and files hosted by Libsyn (affiliate link). Get archives of the show via Patreon. July 15, 2024 | Season 20 Ep 19 | murverse.com "Deck of Worlds: Unleashing Creativity in Fiction"  by Mur Lafferty is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

Get ready for an inspiring episode of Unlock Your Potential with Kyle Gray, an entrepreneur, story strategist, and author of "The Story Engine." In this episode, we delve into the power of storytelling and how it shapes our lives, careers, and purpose. Kyle Gray shares his expertise on how to craft compelling stories that resonate and drive success. From the speaking world to creating a vision, Kyle provides invaluable insights and practical advice for anyone looking to harness the power of storytelling in their personal and professional lives. In this episode, we explore: Insights into the speaking world and its impact The role of origin stories in creating connection and meaning How stories provide context and significance in our lives The process of creating a vision through storytelling Understanding the influence of our social connections The dangers of denying your true purpose Kyle's personal journey and how he found his purpose The importance of living a life guided by story and purpose Kyle's unique approach to storytelling will help you understand how to create and live a life full of purpose and meaning. Don't miss this episode packed with actionable insights and transformative tips. Check Out More of Kyle's Content Here

In this episode of Botched roll, we are on the road to preparing for FREE RPG day on June 22,2024 at our local game stores.Mike “The Birdman” put the call into the multiverse and looking for heroes and storytellers who help do some pretty nifty stuff in the creative space. A pair of amazing individuals from the Story Engine team answered the call to chat with Mike.Join guests, Miroki Tong and Peter Chiykowski from Story Engine and learn about one of the cool promos that you can snag from FREE RPG day this weekend BUT also delve deeper into what makes this product so exciting. Learn what Story engine is, how it can help you brain storm ideas for writing, RPG design or even how to overcome problems that can happen at your table in the moment and you're stuck for a quest.Check out the links below and follow them on social media and all their other pages as wellhttps://storyenginedeck.com/https://www.youtube.com/theshorteststoryhttps://www.facebook.com/storyenginedeck(WATCH THIS SPACE on Free RPG day itself for something cool)https://www.instagram.com/storyenginedeck/https://freerpgday.com/Your Geekmasters:Mike “The Birdman” – https://twitter.com/BirdmanDoddAlex “The Producer” – https://twitter.com/DeThPhaseTWIGFeedback for the show?:Email: feedback@thisweekingeek.netTwitter: https://twitter.com/thisweekingeekSubscribe to our feed: https://www.spreaker.com/show/3571037/episodes/feediTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-week-in-geek/id215643675Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Lit2bzebJXMTIv7j7fkqqGoogle Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc3ByZWFrZXIuY29tL3Nob3cvMzU3MTAzNy9lcGlzb2Rlcy9mZWVkWebsite: http://www.thisweekingeek.netJune 18, 2024

On this episode of the Story Engine podcast, we talk to Massimo Bacchus, author of the book 'I Am Enough.' Massimo shares his personal journey of transformation from being a 'smart jerk' to becoming a better leader through self-love. He discusses the myths and coping mechanisms we develop as children to navigate the world, and how these patterns can hinder our growth as adults. Massimo emphasizes the importance of learning to love ourselves and finding validation from within, rather than seeking external validation. He believes that our universal purpose in life is to learn to truly love ourselves and accept all aspects of who we are. On This Episode Our childhood experiences shape our beliefs and coping mechanisms, which can hinder our growth as adults. Seeking external validation and constantly striving to be 'enough' can lead to stress, damaged relationships, and a lack of fulfillment. Learning to love ourselves and finding validation from within allows us to be present, experience joy and sadness, and be our best selves in relationships. Self-love is an ongoing practice that requires acceptance of our limitations, mistakes, and strengths. By prioritizing our relationship with ourselves, we can be better leaders and create positive change in the world. We Discuss: 03:48 The Struggle with 'Not Enough' and Defensive Behavior 09:11 The Cost of Seeking External Validation and Control 15:00 The Universal Purpose: Learning to Love Ourselves 28:01 The Transformation: Embracing Self-Acceptance and Authenticity 36:01 The Power of Vulnerability and Human Connection

In this episode of the Alchemist Lounge Podcast, we have Kyle Gray, a true wizard of words and a sage of storytelling. As a Story Strategist, Kyle has mastered the art of blending the science of presentation with the artistry of narrative to create profound connections across diverse professions. From accountants to psychedelic therapists, Kyle's unique approach has empowered people from all walks of life to tell their stories in ways that inspire and succeed. Join us as Kyle shares his journey from being a singer-songwriter to becoming a renowned Story Strategist and author. He will dive into how storytelling has played a crucial role in overcoming personal challenges, including his own battle with an autoimmune disease, and how it has helped others transform their professional and personal lives. Get ready to explore the alchemy of storytelling and discover how you can use it to enhance your own communication skills and lead a more empowered life.   IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL HEAR: 0:00 - The Magic of Storytelling: Kyle introduces the power of narrative in professional communication. 4:58 - A Personal Journey: From singer-songwriter to Story Strategist, Kyle shares how personal challenges have enriched his storytelling skills. 14:47 - Building Trust with Stories: Discover how Kyle helps professionals in alternative medicine overcome barriers to sales through engaging storytelling. 19:21 - Overcoming Obstacles: Kyle discusses using storytelling and breathwork to tackle personal insecurities and professional challenges. 25:38 - Stories of Empowerment: Learn about the empowering effects of storytelling on personal growth. 30:50 - Effective Communication Tips: Kyle offers tips on using storytelling to improve clarity and impact in communication. 36:41 - Leading with Empathy: Insights into how vulnerability and storytelling can enhance leadership qualities. 43:49 - Looking Ahead: Kyle shares his future plans and the personal insights gained from his health journey.   SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW Have you subscribed to our podcast? We'd love for you to subscribe if you haven't yet.  We'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.   CONNECT WITH KYLE GRAY Website: https://www.thestoryengine.co/ The Story Engine: https://www.thestoryengine.co/book Selling With Story: https://www.thestoryengine.co/selling-with-story/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylethegray/ Instagram: @heykylegray Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/heykylegray  Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-story-engine-podcast/   CONNECT WITH US Website: https://alexatwood.co/  Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-alchemist-lounge/id1552229674  Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexatwood/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alexatwood_coaching/ Facebook: https://facebook.com/alexatwood.coaching   P.S. Like content like this? Join my newsletter! https://fierce-author-7032.ck.page/a7a68aca9f

In this plot rich episode, Kyle Gray, CEO of The Story Engine, shares how he helped hundreds of startups and small businesses create scalable content marketing strategies.You will discover:- The three stories that will sell your product or service for you- The tragic cost of winging your sales presentations- What to do on every sales call before you try to close the deal
Kyle Gray is an entrepreneur, story strategist, and author who helps coaches, startups, and influencers use storytelling to communicate their unique value better and create connections and trust with their audience. He combines timeless storytelling with cutting-edge marketing to ensure you've got the right story to tell while presenting, on a sales call, or in conversation, both online and offline. He uses “The One Clear Path To Sales” system to turn your story into a powerful sales and marketing tool. Kyle's two books on marketing, Selling With Story and The Story Engine, help you quickly get clear on your story and start selling and how to build systems to tell that story at scale.
Want to learn more about Kyle Gray's work at The Story Engine? Check out his website at https://www.thestoryengine.co/ and get access to his course How to Choose Your Perfect Story at https://www.thestoryengine.co/perfect https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylethegray/https://www.instagram.com/heykylegray

Today on the show we have Hamilton Souther. He is making his second appearance on the podcast after an absolutely stunning and incredible interview a few months back. I highly recommend going and checking out our first show together.  Today he is going to be talking about the mystery school that he is starting, a series of curriculum and community dedicated to understanding the most mysterious and fundamental forces in our planet and in our lives. We are going to be hearing his story of exploring these mysteries deep in the Amazonian jungles of Peru and the meaning that he drew from it all.  In This Episode: The core motivation behind somebody is what gets them fired up to do what they are going to do.  Your choices change your future. You can see your destiny in the past.  It's in the unknown that we find the solutions, new tools, and the things we need in our lives to move beyond where we are right now.  And so much more!!!   Connect with Hamilton Souther: Blue Morpho Academy Blue Morpho Tours Hamilton on Instagram Hamilton on Facebook Hamilton's first show on The Story Engine  

STORY ENGINE. Two words we so often dread, but let's be honest: the engine of your story is what POWERS your movie. It's make, or break. And today, we break down eight elements to test whether or not you are on your way to a feature film story engine that will take you from fade in, to fade out! JOIN OUR PATREON: www.patreon.com/thescreenwritinglife.

Today on the show we have Laura Di Franco. Laura is the founder of Brave Healer Productions, which is a publishing company that supports health and wellness leaders in getting their message out and creates an absolutely healing journey and transformational experience for the experts themselves through clarifying their message and publishing a book. Today we are going to work with Laura on her story to reach more health experts. I am very excited to share this episode with you because it showcases the new format of The Story Engine podcast. You will recognize many of the great questions, conversations, and curiosity but you will also see that we are co-creating a powerful story together.  In This Episode: Your ideal client is just you five or ten years ago before you knew what you know today and are doing what you are doing today.  When you decide to open a business you are on a self-development journey as a healer.  Your message matters because what if the thing that you're still a little afraid to share is exactly what that person is waiting to hear to change their life? It is time to be brave and share what you have.   And so much more!!!   Connect with Laura Di Franco: Laura's Website Laura's Books Laura on Facebook Laura on LinkedIn Laura on Instagram  

Today we are going to be talking about the future of The Story Engine Podcast. I have been running this show for over four years. We are approaching 300 episodes which is an amazing achievement. One of my favorite things about this podcast is that it has created a platform for me to connect with and learn from some of the most brilliant people in the world and I have loved being able to showcase their expertise, their story, and their values. I have always been somebody that is really driven by a desire to learn and discover and this podcast has been the absolute perfect place for that. I am grateful for it because I feel like I have gotten hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coaching that has shaped my work and my creations. I have been inspired to change the format of this podcast for the very first time and today I am going to introduce what that new format is for you and share where I think this podcast is going in the future.  In This Episode: I feel that this new format is going to reenergize the podcast for me, create even more value for you the listener, and have a bigger impact on my guests.  I am going to be focusing on a specific story co-creation process that I use with my clients and in my sales calls that I call The Story Roadmap Process.  I believe that this format and the stories that we create are going to be a truly unique experience that is not captured or shared on any other podcasts that I have seen before. And so much more!!!  

Today on the show coming up I have a really exciting offer to share with you. Since this is The Story Engine, I want to share a story about one of my origins as an entrepreneur nearly ten years ago, my first opportunity to engage with entrepreneurship, The Foundry.  In this episode, I share the key components and the huge impact a mastermind can make in your life and your business.  In This Episode: The measure of your integrity is your ability to do what you say you will do.  Learning from peers is faster than learning from gurus.  There is a certain magic to learning and growing alongside others. And so much more!!!

The Cru gathers for our annual breakfast episode and play a little game with our prompting. This week's prompts come from the Story Engine, a card deck story prompt generator. We each used cards to create a story we'd like to write, then had fun rearranging each other's stories. This led to a discussion on how much structure we like to have in a prompt, as well as how having a plot for a prompt changes the way we approach creating fiction. Stories begin at the 17:30 mark and include a tourist to our world; a librarian with a cursed book; an idol, revealing the details of an arcane weapon; and a doctor who has to get rid of a letter.Check out our website for a featured story from this week's episode, and be sure to follow us on Instagram (if that's your sort of thing). Please do send us an email with your story if you write along, which we hope you will do. Episodes of Radio FreeWrite are protected by a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International (CC BY-ND 4.0) license. All Stories remain the property of their respective authors.

Here's a free 5 Minute Authority Story Course: https://conversioncake.lpages.co/how-to-choose-your-perfect-story-mini-course/ Storytelling is the most powerful tool in your conscious marketing arsenal. It can persuade the biggest audience to experience your message and take positive action while keeping ourselves clear on our purpose. After a life-changing health diagnosis, Kyle Gray channeled his writing and performance art experience into The Story Engine, helping growing businesses craft their unique story to express their true value and scale. This is your chance to learn the art of story and how it can take your customer's experience to the next level.  Tune in to this new episode of The Conscious Marketer podcast — Get Your Storytelling Engine Running with Kyle Gray. Key points covered in this episode: 00:00:00 Introduction  00:08:39 Overcome objections through storytelling. Bring up stories of your past clients' limiting beliefs and conquering them with your offer. Open their minds to the bigger picture and how your service or product will knock over what's holding them back. 00:13:37 The origin story shows your audience your promised transformation. Introduce the most challenging moment that pushed you to find that solution that lasts. Explain how this experience had driven you to get to where you are now – providing answers for your audience. 00:17:30 The most powerful stories are the most mundane. The craziest antics are the least relatable. You might think nobody's listening but your experiences are universal. 00:21:43 Storytelling is like a martial art. Practice your presentation, collect different stories for different purposes, and leave out the unnecessary details or “tasty tangents” that can erode your impact. 00:35:17 Don't let ego hinder your storytelling! Shift your mindset – storytelling isn't manipulation when you're entrenched in your divine purpose. You want to change the world, so pick up the tools so you can be effective in spreading your message! Kyle Gray is a world-class presentation coach, story strategist, and author who helps coaches, startups, and executives use storytelling to better communicate their unique value, and improve sales with their audience. He combines timeless storytelling with cutting-edge marketing to ensure you've got the right story to tell while presenting, on a sales call, or in conversation, both online and offline. Connect with Kyle Gray. Website: http://thestoryengine.co/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/kylethegray LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-gray-27055b33/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heykylegray/  More resources from Kyle Gray. The Story Engine Podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-story-engine-podcast/id1430123429?mt=2 The Story Engine Book: http://thestoryengine.co/book Selling with Story Book: http://sellingwithstory.co/ The Crossroads of the Hero's Journey and Buyer's Journey: https://www.thestoryengine.co/crossroads-heros-journey-buyers-journey/ How to Create Content for Every Stage of the Buyer's Journey: https://www.thestoryengine.co/content-marketing-buyers-journey/   ———————————————————————————————— The Conscious Marketing Movement is all about building a community of conscious leaders, creators, and entrepreneurs.  CONNECT WITH US Join Richard and Kyle in their Facebook group so you can learn how to use conscious marketing in your business. The Marketers Path Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/themarketerspath Website: https://consciousmarketer.com/ SUBSCRIBE TO THE CONSCIOUS MARKETERS PODCAST New Episodes Released Every Thursday  

Jonathan welcomes writer and illustrator Peter Chiykowski to discuss his Story Engine Deck and how it can help writers come up with new and original story ideas. Get your own copy of The Story Engine Deck: https://storyenginedeck.com/ For more of Jonathan's work: https://twitter.com/jonathanballcom https://www.instagram.com/jonathanballcom/ https://www.strangerfiction.ca/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/strangerfiction/message

Gregory and Justin welcome back writer and illustrator Peter Chiykowski to talk about his incredible Story Engine creative story-building system and its new Lore Masters Deck. Peter discusses how he comes up with the many prompts needed for the engine, while helping Justin and Gregory create a "scam artist" story. They also talk about Peter's decision to go with Backerkit over Kickstarter for his latest crowdfunding campaign. Get your copy of the Story Engine: https://storyenginedeck.com/ Transition clips are from Opportunity Knocks (1990) - https://youtu.be/orrDqRLh32Q Follow the gang on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gmbchomichuk/ https://www.instagram.com/chasingartwork/ GMB Chomichuk's online store https://www.gmbchomichuk.ca Chasing Artwork's online store: https://www.chasingartwork.com/ Production: Dan Vadeboncoeur Titles: Jesse Hamel & Nick Smalley --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/gmb-chomichuk/message

Join hosts J.D. Barker, Christine Daigle, JP Rindfleisch IX, Kevin Tumlinson, and Patrick O'Donnell as they discuss the week's publishing topics, including the results of a recent ALLi survey on writer income (spoilers: indies are sitting pretty good right now.) Then stick around as Christine chats with debut science-fiction author Victor Manibo. Victor Manibo is a Filipino speculative fiction writer living in New York. He is the author of the science fiction noir novel The Sleepless [available now] and is a 2022 Lambda Literary Emerging Voices Fellow. His next book, Escape Velocity, comes out in Spring 2024 from Erewhon Books. Check It Out! J.D.'s Movie News! - https://deadline.com/2023/04/behind-a-closed-door-movie-in-works-from-qc-entertainment-spin-a-black-yarn-1235335185/ R.L. Stine and J.D. Barker Live Event - https://www.autocrit.com/thrillerfest-live-event/ CopCamp2023 - ⁠⁠⁠https://www.premeditatedfiction.com/copcamp2023⁠⁠⁠ [FB Group - ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/groups/1280410339558799⁠⁠⁠] Show Links:* Writers, Ink on YouTube! - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@jdbarker_author/podcasts⁠⁠⁠ J.D. Barker - ⁠⁠⁠https://jdbarker.com/⁠⁠⁠ Christine Daigle - ⁠⁠⁠https://www.christinedaiglebooks.com/⁠⁠⁠ JP Rindfleisch IX - ⁠⁠⁠https://www.jprindfleischix.com/⁠⁠⁠ Kevin Tumlinson - ⁠⁠⁠https://www.kevintumlinson.com/⁠⁠⁠ Patrick O'Donnell - ⁠⁠⁠https://www.copsandwriters.com/⁠⁠⁠ Victor Manibo - https://www.victormanibo.com/ TODAY'S SPONSORS: AutoCrit - https://www.autocrit.com/jd (click this link to take advantage of our Writers Ink special offer!!!) MasterWriter - ⁠⁠⁠https://masterwriter.com/⁠⁠⁠ Best of BookTok - ⁠⁠⁠https://bestofbooktok.com/⁠⁠⁠ Booktrib - ⁠⁠https://booktrib.com/author/writers-ink/⁠⁠ Music by Nicorus - ⁠⁠⁠https://cctrax.com/nicorus/dust-to-dust-ep⁠⁠⁠ Voice Over by Rick Ganley - ⁠⁠⁠http://www.nhpr.com⁠⁠⁠ and recorded at Mill Pond Studio - ⁠⁠⁠http://www.millpondstudio.com⁠⁠⁠ Show notes & audio production by Geoff Emberlyn - ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/gmbrlyn⁠⁠⁠ Website Design by Word & Pixel - ⁠⁠⁠http://wordandpixel.com/⁠⁠⁠ Contact - ⁠⁠⁠https://writersinkpodcast.com/contact/⁠⁠⁠ *Full disclosure: Some of the links are affiliate links. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/writersink/support

In this episode, I chat about what building an effective content marketing engine looks like for growth stage tech companies, and why NOW is the absolute best time to start. Topics include: Optimal content marketing tools for Series A marketers At which stage it makes sense to engage agencies/freelancers and what to outsource Which aspect of content marketing you should never outsource (and why) How small teams can take on big industry competitors How to use CEO thought leadership content to build your organisation Enjoy the show! To learn more about Brand Storytelling, join our FREE course, the ⁠⁠Storydriven Marketing Academy⁠⁠. If you want to get in touch, connect with me on ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠ or reach out via our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠.

Kyle Gray is a world-class presentation coach, story strategist and author who helps coaches, startups and executives use storytelling to better communicate their unique value, and improve sales with their audience. He combines timeless storytelling with cutting-edge marketing to ensure you've got the right story to tell while presenting, on a sales call or in conversation, both online and offline. Learn more about Kyle Gray here!Learn more about Path to Podcast Success here!

The gang's all here as we talk about Escape from L.A., Rime of the Frost Maiden, Wednesday, the Board Game Arena app, Blockbuster game, Galaxy Trucker, Star Wars: Jedi Order, Pickled, Muppet Christmas Carol, Bullet Train, X, Troll, Story Engine, Warner axes Westworld, the GeekShock Christmas movie, Flanagan tries his hand at the Dark Tower, Shawn Levy Star Wars, Kim Mohan, Gears of War, Dungeons and Dragons movie prequel novels and transformers, and Red Light/Green Light featuring Witch Mountain, My Hero Academia, Scanners, and Kolchak: The Truth is Out There. So beware the Ghosts of Christmas Geek, it's time for a GeekShock!

I pulled out an old pilot script I was working on a long time ago. I didn't finish it because I was having a hard time coming up with the story engine. I can spot story engine problems easily in other people's scripts, but it's a struggle creating my own. I was given advice to check out the show Claws because it is similar to my script. So, I planned to check out the pilot episode to get an understanding of the story engine. The pilot hooked me in. The next thing I knew, I binged the entire first season. The show is hilarious and those people are crazy af! I tracked the engine for season 1 from beginning to end. Check out what I found!Follow WordyGirl Entertainment on Instagram and Twitter at @wordygirlent Follow WordyGirl Entertainment on Facebook at https://bit.ly/34NRtJu Visit our website at wordygirlent.com

When it comes to our psychedelic experiences, I have found that one of the main aspects of whether we come out the other side of these experiences seeing them as “good” or “bad” is the stories we have surrounding both what we deem “good” & “bad” experiences & furthermore, how we use the information we gain in our experiences to architect & add to the overall story of our life. Todays guest on the show is a gentleman who is not only a very close & dear friend of mine, but is also someone who has been present in many of my psychedelic journeys within the last few years & is a master of architecting positive & potent stories from which our lives can be created from. He is the host of “The Story Engine” podcast, which is a show dedicated to illuminating the role that stories play in connecting entrepreneurs deeper to their clients, is an Amazon best selling author of “The Story Engine” book, is a coach who helps his clients create stories that allow them to create world class presentations that lead to more sales both through his 1 on 1 work & his group program, Story Pro & if all of that wasn't enough, he is also a shining example of what can happen when we integrate our plant medicine & psychedelic experiences alike to break free of our current matrix in order to bring forth a higher amount of fulfillment in our lives. Kyle Gray Kyle Gray is an entrepreneur, story strategist and author who helps coaches, startups and influencers use storytelling to better communicate their unique value, and create connection and trust with their audience. He combines timeless storytelling with cutting edge marketing to ensure you've got the right story to tell while presenting, on a sales call or in conversation, both online and offline.Connect with Kyle:IG: @heykylegrayWebsite: https://www.thestoryengine.co/Thank you to our podcast sponsors!Freedom Builderz - https://www.freedombuilderz.com/Building profitable online programs FOR coaches using Kajabi so they can smoothly hit 10k months!Show Notes:(4:22) How Kyle first got into psychedelics. (11:06) Kyle's first time…(13:45) Check out FreedomBuilderz.com! (17:44) Being connected to what you're creating.(28:07) Kyles experience with mushrooms.(51:30) Join the Highly Optimized Ceremony Circle on Facebook! (1:06:16) Where you can reach Kyle.(1:10:05) Kyle's final piece of advice for the listeners!https://www.highlyoptimized.me This episode was produced by Mazel Tov Media in Quincy, Massachusetts.https://www.mazeltm.com/totop

What is country branding? Why do countries market themselves? What makes a brand successful? Todd Babiak, CEO of Brand Tasmania and an award-winning country and place branding expert, explains the brand creating process. *Todd Babiak is co-founder of Story Engine and Places is People and currently CEO of Brand Tasmania. In 2021, he returned home with two wins from an award ceremony held by two of the most prominent organisations in place branding (City Nation Place and Place Marketing Forum): "Place Brand of the Year" and "Branding". Ülke markalaması nedir? Ülkeler kendilerini neden pazarlar? Bir markayı başarılı kılan etmenler nelerdir? Brand Tasmania'nın CEO'su, ödüllü ülke ve yer markalama uzmanı Todd Babiak, marka yaratım sürecini anlatıyor. *Todd Babiak, Story Engine ve Places is People'ın kurucu ortağı. Hâlen Brand Tasmania'nın CEO'su. 2021 yılında yer markalaması konusunda önde gelen kuruluşlar arasında yer alan “City Nation Place” ve “Place Marketing Forum”un düzenlediği ödül töreninden “Yılın Yer Markası” ve “Markalama” ödülleri ile döndü.

Peter Chiykowski is a modern day renaissance man who graces the podcast with their presence to show us how randomness can inspire your worldbuilding and gamemastering. Peter Chiykowski is a write, editor, illustrator, and creator of the Deck of Worlds and the Story Engine. Both being cards you can shuffled and compiled randomly to create inspiring prompts and stories. Janet Forbes (pen-name J.D. Blythe) is a published fantasy author, professional Dungeons and Dragons Streamer, and also the co-founder of World Anvil, the ULTIMATE worldbuilding platform for writers and gamers!  Tell Your Story Create Your World

Part 2! Peter Chiykowski is a modern day renaissance man who graces the podcast with their presence to show us how randomness can inspire your worldbuilding and gamemastering. Peter Chiykowski is a write, editor, illustrator, and creator of the Deck of Worlds and the Story Engine. Both being cards you can shuffled and compiled randomly to create inspiring prompts and stories. Janet Forbes (pen-name J.D. Blythe) is a published fantasy author, professional Dungeons and Dragons Streamer, and also the co-founder of World Anvil, the ULTIMATE worldbuilding platform for writers and gamers!  Tell Your Story Create Your World

Peter Chiykowski is a modern day renaissance man who graces the podcast with their presence to show us how randomness can inspire your worldbuilding and gamemastering. Peter Chiykowski is a write, editor, illustrator, and creator of the Deck of Worlds and the Story Engine. Both being cards you can shuffled and compiled randomly to create inspiring prompts and stories. Janet Forbes (pen-name J.D. Blythe) is a published fantasy author, professional Dungeons and Dragons Streamer, and also the co-founder of World Anvil, the ULTIMATE worldbuilding platform for writers and gamers!  Tell Your Story Create Your World

Part 2! Peter Chiykowski is a modern day renaissance man who graces the podcast with their presence to show us how randomness can inspire your worldbuilding and gamemastering. Peter Chiykowski is a write, editor, illustrator, and creator of the Deck of Worlds and the Story Engine. Both being cards you can shuffled and compiled randomly to create inspiring prompts and stories. Janet Forbes (pen-name J.D. Blythe) is a published fantasy author, professional Dungeons and Dragons Streamer, and also the co-founder of World Anvil, the ULTIMATE worldbuilding platform for writers and gamers!  Tell Your Story Create Your World

Main Topic: Story Engine Unboxing: Story Engine… we have cards! Booster: Eldritch Horror set Today's quandary is how to run a giveaway for the spare Story Engine set. Roll for wild luck. Walking through the decks, and how to use them to help you tell your stories Buy Your Own Story Engine deck: https://storyenginedeck.myshopify.com Links Merch Shop Mur on Twitter Mur on Instagram Mur on Youtube Mur's newsletter, The Hot Mic Support via Patreon or Ko-Fi! John Anealio on Bandcamp Twitch schedule for week of May 9: Mon: 4:30pm Ditch Diggers with Alasdair Stuart Tues: 3:00pm I Should Be Writing Wed: 3:00pm Gaming Thurs: 3:00pm NO STREAM April 21, 2022 | Season 18 Ep 33 | murverse.com Copyright 2022, Mur Lafferty | CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 License

Kay is out of town this week, so Melissa Turkington, columnist, story analyst, screenwriter and director, joins us as a guest co-host to discuss our marquee topic. We also delve into the recent controversy where Melissa was harassed by another screenwriter and discuss what steps women (and others) can take to unmask these predators and bring them into the light. Our Weekly Resource: The Story Engine Deck. There are 16 of these Story Engine decks, expansions and booster sets, and inside of them are all you need to create your own story ideas, creative writing prompts, character prompts, D&D campaign ideas, character ideas, one shot ideas, encounter ideas, fantasy writing prompts and more. If you go to the website (which is linked in the show notes), there is a link to get a free sample. Notes From the Episode: Melissa's Pipeline Artist's article Kevin Nelson's script, "Shia LaBeouf Won the Wrong Mutha Fuckin' Screenwriting Competition" Melissa's Twitter Rob's YouTube Channel How to Make a Movie for $1000 Kay's Twitter Rob's Twitter Email us(!)

Token Metrics Media LLC is a regular publication of information, analysis and commentary focused especially on blockchain technology and business, cryptocurrency, blockchain-based tokens, market trends, and trading strategies. Like the podcast to let us know you like the content!

Token Metrics Media LLC is a regular publication of information, analysis and commentary focused especially on blockchain technology and business, cryptocurrency, blockchain-based tokens, market trends, and trading strategies. Like the podcast to let us know you like the content!

Today we are looking at 2021. What a year it has been for all of us across the world and what a year it has been for me.  I want to acknowledge many of the challenges and uncertainties that many of us have been facing globally. It has certainly been one of the most unique years in my lifetime in terms of what I have seen happening in the world around me. Fortunately for me at this time, I have been able to continue to grow, develop, and continue to adapt.  I hope that this trend accelerates and I hope we all as a planet can come closer together and be better off as a whole as we move through these challenging times.  Today I want to share some of my biggest wins over this last year. I want to celebrate and share some of the lessons I have learned and where I have learned those. I am also excited to share some of the things I have in store for next year.  In This Episode:  Actually being able to hold and use silence to your advantage is one of the ways that you can really be a pro when you are facilitating a workshop or whether you are speaking from the stage.  One of the biggest sources of lessons he had was a shoulder injury that he got while he was in San Diego in September. I learned that the healing process is not always linear.  Another lesson this year has been in patience and trust. Sometimes doing less is actually more effective but it requires trust in yourself and more importantly trust in the universe. It is trusting in the work you are putting in and not always pushing harder and doing more which can lead to burnout. And so much more!!!

TODD BABIAK's most recent novels are The Empress of Idaho, Son of France, and Come Barbarians, which was a Globe and Mail Book of the Year and a number one bestseller. His earlier work includes The Garneau Block, which was a national bestseller, a longlisted title for the Scotiabank Giller Prize, and the winner of the City of Edmonton Book Prize; The Book of Stanley; and Toby: A Man, which was shortlisted for the Stephen Leacock Medal and won the Alberta Book Award for Best Novel. Todd Babiak is the co-founder of Story Engine and CEO of Brand Tasmania. He currently lives with his family in Hobart. About The Spirit's Up Benedict is an inventor whose life's work is a clean energy machine. It has just made him an overnight sensation and his family is suddenly wealthy. Benedict's wife, Karen, and his teenage daughters, Charlotte and Poppy, are proud of him. But there are problems Benedict is too busy to see: Karen is deeply unhappy in the marriage and contemplating an affair, Charlotte, who is dealing with a chronic illness, is growing more and more distant, and Poppy is cracking under the pressures of her social circle. And there's another problem. Benedict holds a rather terrible secret about his clean energy machine. Then, on Halloween night, an accident threatens to make everything far worse for the family. The accident kicks off a series of hauntings in their beautiful, historic home in affluent Belgravia, and the ghosts make it clear that they want something from them. Karen has to save her daughters — and herself. Meanwhile, Benedict is consumed by the knowledge that he has to achieve the impossible by Christmas. As time ticks ever closer to the revelation of his secret, he spirals further into despair . . . The Spirits Up is the story of a family haunted by the charmlessness of middle age and the cruelties of modern teenage life. Part social satire and part contemporary ghost story (with a hint of Dickens's A Christmas Carol), it is an exploration of a timeless question: what happens when there's nothing to believe?

Today on the show, we are going to have ME so to speak.  I am going to get out of the interviewer's seat and get into the interviewee's seat. I have an amazing guest interviewer in Kirsten Trammell from Evolved Podcasting. She has been a friend of mine for a while and is an excellent podcast host and producer.   I wanted to share some more of the stories that happened behind the scenes of the podcast of what I am doing and what motivates me that I may not have fully expressed in my monologue or in the interviews where I am usually much more focused on my own guest. I thought that it was a cool opportunity to share some of my perspectives, my thoughts, what I find really exciting both throughout the history of the podcast and my career as an entrepreneur, and what I am seeing in the future.  There are lots of stories and perspectives and angles from my point of view that you probably haven't heard from before.  This was an incredible interview that I had a great time with.  In This Episode: By creating these little stories and little bits of content consistently, he started to see this compound effect that they could have. He continued to see and appreciate the art form of storytelling that could be so powerful.  By creating, by sharing your story, by standing by your value and who you are, and by going through the process of entrepreneurship nothing gets you into the messiness of your soul faster and more consistently than having to show up every day and make things. Connecting again with your inner child and giving yourself the freedom to explore an idea in whatever way is exciting to you. Find a way that you can mix in something else that you are excited about but is unexpected.  And so much more!!!

The week of recording this podcast episode is the three-year anniversary of my podcast, The Story Engine podcast. It has been an amazing journey creating it and I am reflecting on some of the gifts it has provided me over the last few years.  I am excited to share them with you today.  Many of my friends ask how I have benefited or made money from the podcast. I have monetized this podcast in many indirect ways. Today I am going to share some of the ways that this podcast has increased the value of my life and my work and why I am so grateful for this journey.  In This Episode:  My favorite thing about having a podcast is that it creates an opportunity to have a conversation with someone that I want to learn from.  By taking time to examine the stories we tell ourselves, we can become better speakers when we speak to others.  This podcast has been a treasure and rock for me in my life over the last few years.  And so much more!!! 

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes. We hope you enjoy We Make Books! Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap Instagram: @WMBCast  Patreon.com/WMBCast Mentioned in this episode: The Dancing Plague of 1518 MICE quotient The House of Untold Stories  storyenginedeck.com/demo deckofworlds.com Peter on Twitter and everywhere   Transcript (by Rekka, uncaught mistakes by Temi)   [Upbeat Ukulele Intro Music] Rekka: This is We Make Books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. Rekka is a published Science Fiction and Fantasy author, and Kaelyn is a professional genre fiction editor. Together, they'll tackle the things you never knew you never knew about getting a book from concept to finished product, with explanations, examples, and a lot of laughter. Get your moleskin notebook ready. It's time for We Make Books.   Rekka: Peter, I'm going to have you introduce yourself—because I completely failed to have you pronounce your name for me before we started recording—and tell us how you came to stories.   Peter: Yeah. so my name is Peter Chiykowski, or at least that's how I say it. And I write, I illustrate I do some graphic design. I've designed some creative tools for writers and artists and storytellers. And I do create content for tabletop RPGs. And I write songs as well—Um mostly like comedy styled songs. But I do, I do a bunch of things creatively. And I would say that story has been a very big link between them. And definitely one of my passion areas is looking at how different creative disciplines and different like creative techniques and skillsets can combine to create story in different ways or to tell stories in different ways. Or even if like you're not doing something multimedia and you're only working in your one medium, how learning from other mediums gives you more tools for telling stories.   Peter: And I always find that really exciting. But yeah, I think like my, before I was writing anything as a kid, I loved role-playing games. I remember there was this sort of very improvised six-sided die-based game that my friends and I would play in at recess in like grade three that was, there were no rules written down. I don't think it was based on anything, but I do think that we, one of our dads had played D&D and had somehow rubbed off the concept of like rolling dice to tell a story and telling a story collectively. And there was no table top because we were not at a table. We were like out on the playground at recess, but we would like bowl these dice across the entire playground and then run and see what the number was and the story would evolve from there.   Peter: And it was all kinds of silly fantasy adventure stuff. That's the first time that I remember like really getting hooked into telling the story and getting excited about collaborative storytelling. And then it's all been downhill from there. Once, once, once tabletop roleplay gets its hooks into you you, you get, yeah, you look for any avenue to tell stories. So I've done everything from like poetry to short fiction. I've written campaigns for tabletop RPGs, like Ember Wind. I wrote a bunch of poems for a video game. That's now unintended switch called Fracter. We were trying to tell story, but also give clues for solving puzzles in this like existential platform or game, called Fracter. And I've just kind of loved playing in the story space and finding different ways to tell stories. Yeah, and that's kind of the weird mixed bag of experiences that I, I come to story with, but it's such a, such a passion area for me.   Rekka: It does seem like you're absolutely perfect for the topic that we're going to talk about today. You're the perfect person to put this together, and that is the Story Engine, which is almost a role-playing game, almost a multiplayer game.   Kaelyn: I was trying to describe this to somebody recently and I couldn't. So maybe you can.   Rekka: Yeah, well, let's, you're the perfect person because you've probably seen all the marketing. If you didn't create it all yourself for the Story Engine, what is it? And how did you conceive of it? Like, did it come out of a need or did it come out of a like 10 minute space of time where you weren't actually doing something else? Cause it sounds like you're as busy as we are.   Peter: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely wear too many creative hats and I jump from project to project, but Story Engine was something that was definitely, it was definitely filling a need that I had. I write a lot of micro fiction. Like one of my more consistent projects I've worked on is called the shortest story and it's basically, I call them postcard stories. They're stories that fit on postcards. And I actually format them in like a, as like a four by six style postcard, but it's text over an image. And it's meant to be like a little pocket universe that you, you read something from, or like a, a story that's almost an alternate life or a path you never took in your own life. That's that your you get to read. So I called them like post "postcards from alternate worlds" or "postcards from impossible worlds" is kind of like the tagline for that project. And what I was finding, I used to write longer fiction. I used to write poetry and longer fiction and submit to journals. And when I was really getting into the grind of like trying to become a creative full-time and I was working a full-time job, and then also trying to do comics on the side and publishing there was just like, I, it was so hard to maintain enough energy and to find inspiration. And there was so much pressure on the rare pockets of creative time that I would find that I'd often block myself out from creating by feeling like I'd have to optimize this hour and a half I have before work. There's so much pressure cause like maybe I won't have time for another week and I would freak myself out by, by putting that pressure on it.   Peter: And it took a lot of joy out of the creative process. And I found that I was having less and less time to create longer projects as a result, like even long short fiction, like anything longer than a thousand words. So I started creating micro fiction. And this was amazing for me because it meant that I could like pick up a project or pick something up and put it down an hour and a half later and feel like I've created something that stands on its own. That's like a contained creative ecosystem. And that I feel good about it and I can share that with people. And what I found is that I was getting a lot of the ideas from, for stories, from a combination of looking up like publicly available free-for-use photography.   Peter: So I would, I would see an image and the image would start something in my head. And then sometimes it wouldn't be the image. It would be like, I'd have a sense of a conflict coming in as a story seed in my head that like, oh, I want to have a story about somebody who has to choose between like a friend and like a dream that matters to them. And that would be kind of the story seed or it would sometimes cement like the idea of a particular character. Like I'd love to do a story from the perspective of like an entomologist, like suddenly all of an entomologist in my head. So I was paying attention to what was inspiring a lot of these stories seeds in where a lot of the stories were coming from and trying to think like, well, how can I create a tool that would help other people find stories, seeds, or build their own stories, seeds from the parts that speak to them?   Peter: And that's when I started playing with the idea of a story prompting deck and, you know, it's not the first story prompting deck. There's, there's many of these tools out there and people create them in different ways. But I wanted to create something that was really open-ended because I find that with a lot of writing prompts, they're really interesting, but sometimes the prompt is so closed as a system, but it doesn't really give you room to create your own idea. It's just kind of there to see, like, what's your take on this? And that's great, but it's hard to generate a lot of, like, it's hard for those ideas to be reusable. If the card has a really closed system where like the only thing you can do with it is this. Then once you've gone through 60 cards, the deck is is not obsolete, but like you've tapped it out.   Peter: And that's like, great from a marketing perspective, because then you can sell someone the next deck, but I really wanted to create something that was like, you could just keep using it forever. And the creative force behind it was not the idea of putting the cards, but using the cards as a space for someone to create their own idea or bring their own idea to the spread. So from there, it was basically like mixing a bunch of different influences to create a tool that would do this. So like, it was a huge inspiration from tarot. You know, this is a system of cards it's been used for hundreds of years to understand and analyze patterns and have people tell their story or understand their lives in ways that make sense. And that are like interpretable and re interpretable that you can rotate to create new meanings.   Peter: And like all of that went into the deck. Some of it was borrowed consciously from tarot and some of it was like I realized afterwards, I, oh, that's basically what tarot does. Like the fact that you can combine the cards in different spreads and patterns is like, it was very consciously tarot inspired. And then the other like influence that I like to acknowledge it that I think was really big is basically this one sentence from a Canadian novelist who wrote a lot about story and what a story and Douglas Glover wrote in a book called the enamored night that a story consists of someone wanting something and having trouble getting it. And that's such a simple sentence and I don't, I don't generally like, like reductive definitions of this is what a story is, and this is under, this is what this counts as writing and this doesn't that's, those definitions are often very artificial, but I do think that's one really helpful tool for understanding the anatomy of story and how you can combine these parts and, and slot different things in for who the someone is and what they want and what the trouble is.   Peter: And if you look at the Story Engine deck, a lot of the w five card types map against the elements in those sentence and that sentence where like the, someone is the agent card, it's that your character and the wanting is the engine card. It's the thing that motivates them. The something that they want is the anchor, usually an anchor card or another agent card. And then the trouble is the conflict card. And then the aspect cards are there to, to layer more detailed or make the story feel like more like your own. So that was kinda the other influence that, that came together to make this tool. But it's, it's hard to explain what it is cause it's very, like, it is a story prompting system, but it's very, open-ended like, you can play it like it's an RPG. You can use it as inspiration for a solo RPG. You can use it to just create character ideas. You can use it to create art prompts. Like it's, it's hard to market a multi-tool because you kind of need to tell people like a simple story about what it's going to do for them.   Kaelyn: But you did a great job marketing it because this was on Kickstarter and oh boy, did you hit your goal there!   Peter: Yeah. This, this Kickstarter took off in a much bigger way than I had anticipated. I launched it in, I think September, 2019, and I was blown away by how fast it took off. And I had thought at the time that I was launching like a new collection of my stories and then also, "Hey, this cool tool that went into creating a lot of these stories and that might help you." And very quickly it became like, okay, there's a book there. That's just going to be an add on the main thing was like, people were really interested in the deck and what it could do.   Kaelyn: And do you have how many booster packs now at this point? 6?   Peter: Yeah. So the, the, the core deck that, that, that launched off that Kickstarter was one main deck, three expansions and six boosters. So that way people can like dabble with different genres and they can kind of almost make their own like genre cocktails by combining different elements from different genres. And then the latest Kickstarter for my world building deck, the Deck of Worlds that that's introducing three new expansions for the Story Engine and six new boosters for the Story Engine, so that's going to be 12 and six. And the main deck ended up a bunch of expansions for the world building deck. So there's a lot of cards.   Kaelyn: That is, yeah, that is a lot. Wow. That's awesome.   Peter: What I tried to do with both those systems is make them so that it's like, it's about how you layer the cards. Like I think the, just the main deck, that main Story Engine deck has 32 billion possible permutations, just, just including the main deck, just in the simple prompt format where you have the five, one of each card of the five cards laid out in a certain order. And so like the extra stuff there in case you want to bring in genre elements, or you want more to work with, but like, I tried to make a system where if you just want the core deck that's gonna like, that should do you for, for, for decades of story ideas, if you personally exhaust all of the possible combinations in your deck in your lifetime, you know, I, I will personally come and bring you an expansion.   Rekka: Challenge accepted. Well, I happen to have a base Story Engine deck with me, and I was looking through it and looking through the instruction booklet and you're right. Like, there are so many ways that you could do a story with this, lay them out. You were talking about like the tarot arrangements. It's very much like that. The direction that you read your cards in, the way that you layer them, the orientation of them, turning them so that they fit your story more. But I also really appreciate how much of the instruction booklet is, like "throw out whatever is holding you back." And they're also very broad. Like I realized like a science fiction writer and a romance writer could get the same spread and write two very different books. You know, and obviously that was your intention, but it really does open it up rather than close it down.   Rekka: Like, you know, you hear the story prompt, like, "oh, if you're stuck, make something explode." Well, it, explosion is a very specific thing, but yours might be something like, you know, a possessed assassin walks in kind of thing. Like, and that works in any genre. I mean, like, you know, there's no specificity to these cards, it's that our brains do all the work of figuring out what that means for the way we write, the way we write stories, or the specific story we're talking about. What was the process of narrowing down something that you felt confident enough in to print? Because that's a scary thing for me as a graphic designer also, like when it's time to actually print the thing, you're like, okay, that means no more revisions, you know. How'd you get to that point?   Peter: Yeah. So I eased myself into it a few ways and I definitely had had help and input. I I had a brain trust that I was emailing with questions usually with more specific focused questions around like like the name for the agent deck versus it could have been called the character deck or like "what are your thoughts and how these come together?" But there were a few people who I handed early prototypes to, and just like, didn't tell them what it was and asked them to just play with it and see what came out and then got their feedback. And then within the specific questions. And definitely I got some really, really helpful feedback, like the entire system of using... When I first conceived it. I only had in mind that basic spread the story seed. That's just like basically the first page of the the guide book now.   Peter: And it was my friend Cintain, who's done a lot of tarot reading. And who's also a writer who looked at it and said actually this was we were, at the time we were doing like a Skype call or a video call. So I had the deck and he would tell me what to do with it. And he said, "okay, I want you to tell me this card and then this card, and then this type of card and this, and then do the same thing backwards." And he created what is pretty close to now, the circle of fate format. And he's like, "I want to, like, when you give me those cards, I want to play, play with it and like create different spreads and directions." And this is like, you know, tarot, once you get to advanced tarot, creating different styles of spreads can be its own art.   Peter: And that really blew my mind. And that really opened up like a huge amount of functionality in the deck because it was both like getting to create these different pre-packaged spreads that people could use and then also just trying to teach people to treat the deck as a system where like once you've learned the spreads, what I've really done is kind of given you the basic building blocks for creating your own spreads and patterns. And that's helpful not only because it gets you more use out of the deck, but it also helps you realize that story itself is malleable. Story itself is modular. You can always out a character in switch in a different character and see how that changes the particular resonances of their struggle. Or you can transfer a character's motivation from one object or character to another, and that creates a change in the story or a shift in the story. How all of these elements are things you can play with and have fun. And I think that the reason that it really helps dismantle a lot of what I, you know, we all have theories about what writer's block is and if it's real, what it, whatever it is, it definitely there - people get stuck.   Kaelyn: It's, it's real. What it's a function of, I can't say, but it is real.   Peter: Yeah. And I think people come at writer's block for different reasons and, and can solve it in different ways. But I think that one of the things that helps about this tool is that A, it brings a sense of play back to writing and to story development. And B it helps you make choices that, you know, you can undo. Okay. Cause sometimes the hard part, the, the, where you get locked up is feeling like, well, there's so many directions I can go and I don't want to go down the wrong one. And then I see what the deck, so it lets you literally visualize, like here are the choices that I've made about what I'm including in the story and what the story is. And if this one starts to not work for me, I can just chuck that card and replace it or I can rotate the card because this meaning this particular interpretation isn't quite working for me.   Peter: But if I turn that card 90 degrees, now I have a new meaning that I'm tapping and that's one that I'm connecting with. And it also limits the choices that you're dealing with. You're not dealing with 32 billion story ideas at once. You're dealing with the two to four options per card and making those limited choices that you can always redo. And it, I think it helps people get to the starting line where like, they're just having fun with the story and pass those like really pressuring questions of like, is this good enough of an idea to write about? Or where am I going with this?   Kaelyn: It's very interesting because in my experience, in my encounters, you know, with writers over the years, I, the, again, I hate the binary. I hate, you know, it's this or this, but like, I will say like there's two dominant large groups that I come into contact with people who have a story in their heads already that they just really want to write and people who really want to write, but don't have a story. And they each are coming across like gonna come across their own problems, their own conflicts in that. But you know, the people who are like, like you and Rekka like writers and creatives and are, you know, constantly coming up and generating new ideas. What I really liked about this deck was like, I think every, I think like to the outside world, we hear like, oh, a writer, like, you know, will they just come up with a story and then they write it. It's like, that is not how this works. And what's really cool about this deck is kind of, you can take all of those elements, break them out into pieces that you can see, move and shift them around, modify them, tweak them to, you know, where you want it to go. And could you do this on a piece of paper? Sure. But one, it's not as fun to, it's not as organized and three, these are colorful.   Rekka: I also think there's a certain element and probably not for everyone, but like the hand of fate, you know, that you've been dealt these cards, you've drawn them. And then you feel like this is a challenge that I can rise to as opposed to like, well, that's my crummy idea. Something else would be better.   Kaelyn: And I think that's why anthologies are such a good thing for emerging or new writers because it gives you something—it's a challenge in some regards. So it's also very good for, you know, experienced writers—but it gives you something saying, I need this. And I think that's one of the things that's so scary about. Just write a novel is it's. So open-ended, it's just   Rekka: Also long. A long commitment to an open-ended idea that you came up with in silence. Yeah.   Kaelyn: And it's like, well, what do you want me to write? And so then there's this pressure to go, well, what's popular? What's everyone going to read? Well, by the time you get this written and published, that's not going to matter. So don't worry about that. Okay. Well, what do I like? Well, I like these things. I'm not sure I can write a whole book about that and I'm worried it will ruin that thing for me. So I, it is good to either have someone give you, or in the case of the Story Engine, give yourself direction in a way to organize your thoughts.   Rekka: And that was one thing that occurred to me was like very frequently when I start getting the seed of an idea, it's a concept; it's a sentence. It's like elements, ingredients, like you said, here are things I like, I want to combine them. Do I have a plot? No.   Kaelyn: Those aren't important.   Rekka: Well, eventually you're supposed to maybe have a plot. And what I like about the Story Engine deck is that in your instructions, you say like if you know an aspect or if you're writing in an existing world, there are parts of this. You can lock in place, you can go and dig and find the cartoon to read or write it, you know, yourself or whatever or you just know that it's locked in what you're looking for are the other elements, which create a plot. And that just, I knew the Story Engine deck was for creating ideas, but I didn't realize what it could do for the ideas I already have and getting them to the point where I'm ready to write something with them.   Rekka: Cause I'll let something percolate for a year or more and just write it, write what I know down so that I don't forget it, but it can take a long time before I figure out how that fits into point A to point B to point C and how many characters and what are their desires and all the things that could be decided for me, or at least inspired for me by drawing a random card and just getting an idea. And now, do I think that writing that story from the story engine would get me the same story that I would have come up with after a year or more of letting a story percolate? Probably not, but it's really interesting. The immediate sense of, "oh, I know what to do with that." When you get a suggestion, like Kaelyn was saying an anthology theme, all of a sudden you're like, "oh. Oh, I know what to do with that."   Rekka: And a story engine deck really reads to me in a similar way that like what I have put, you know, a, a series of things together, like the cards are going to come out in whatever orientation I choose? Almost absolutely not. You know, unless I'm really being finicky and like digging for the cards I want across the entire thing. And then maybe I'm just drawing out an idea. I didn't know I had, which is also useful. It's really flexible. And I really, I, I I'm really impressed by that. There's a lot, there's a lot of brain in this box.   Kaelyn: I think that one of the things that is very, as you know—that's exactly it, there's a lot of brain in this box, but really it's just, it's just kind of leeching onto your brain and like, you know, like some little like computer chip, that's going like, "ehhhh, it's a little bit of a mess in here. Let's, let's clean this up." but I think what is good about it is it gives writers a way to provide their own prompts, to, you know, just take things that maybe they wouldn't have considered, but, or it could be interesting, engaging, advancing elements to a story that's sort of half exists in their head already. You don't need to come to this with a blank slate.   Peter: Yeah. Yeah. You can come with as much of the story as you have formed and work with what you've already got, or you can come with nothing and just it'll lay out some track for you and you don't have to use all the elements of the track that you lay out. You can swap things out, you can ignore it. Like I ignore parts of the prompt all the time, because I just wanted to get started on. I wanted to find something to be excited enough about that I just start writing. And if that's this half of the prompt and not this half, then I'm going to pretend that the card I drew was actually this, cause this works better in my head, but the rest of it, I'm going to use the conflict and I'm going to use the aspect and the the descriptive part. And I'm going to use that the story is anchored in some way on a meal. A meal between two people or something. Cause that's what I drew. But yeah, like I said, like there's yeah, the reason that it works is because the brain, the brain is not in the box. I would, I would counter that and say like, the brain is 100%.   Rekka: No, I'm sorry. You can't come on our podcast and tell us we're wrong. I'm talking about like the brain that put this together neatly and you managed to get out of the way of the end user.   Peter: That was exactly. That's yeah. That's exactly the language that I use when I talk about it. It was getting out of the way of people and letting them bring their ideas to it. Like there were early drafts of this that were more focused on like... Like one thing I love about the writing prompts subreddit on Reddit is that there's some really interesting creative prompts that are just like, wow, I never would've thought of that in a million years. But the thing that I have trouble with is that they're always very closed. Like it's almost always like write your version of this highly specific high concept premise. And so there's less mileage to work with there. And I found that I was trying to do some of the, the, like, I want to create a really dazzling idea with the writing in some of the early drafts.   Peter: And the more I tried to make that work, the more that those ideas couldn't plug very easily into A, like what the reader wanted to do with it, or sorry, what the writer wanted to do with it. The creator wanted to do with it, the end user. The more it made it hard for them to read something into it or bring their own idea to it. The more I realized those ideas aren't working and then the more trouble that those ideas had plugging into other cards and connecting to other cards in an open-ended way that also ended up being what I discarded. So I ended up like scratching a bunch of material that I thought was extraordinarily clever. But that really wouldn't have served the end purpose and like the question that I asked myself now when I'm looking at prompts and deciding like, will this work is is it going to be useful for the writer, for the end user?   Peter: And is it going to leave enough room for them to bring their own gift basically? Like it's a little bit like button soup, the story button soup, where like someone starts off and like, "oh, I'm gonna make this special soup. The first thing I need is a button and then, oh, hold on. Do you have any carrots? Do you have any...?" And you know, the, the town brings ingredients. And it's very much that, like it's, it's the, the, the deck is a button that gets you started making a soup and it's just an excuse for soup and who doesn't, who doesn't want an excuse for soup? That's my new, that's my new marketing logline. "The Story Engine is an excuse for soup."   Rekka: Yeah. And the the cleverness is, has gotta be tempting, but the, the terms that you ended up using for example, I just drawing a random card. I have these are the agent cards, the four corners, or the four sides of this card are an introvert, a dreamer, a grump, a wanderer. Those are pretty dry and pretty basic terms. And even so, whatever genre you like to write in, whatever world is, you know, your brain is currently marinating in, you've already got an idea of who each of those four people are, and they're not the same as mine. And that's, that's really nice. And that can not be easy to create that openness, like you were saying.   Peter: It took a lot of, a lot of rebalancing the cards and the, the, what was going onto the cues. One thing that I found was really important was like some of the play tests that I did early on, some of them were with writers and creative people who could like get a simple prompt and spin out this fantastical universe and they could run with it. And then I would also show it to people who work in science and they would have like a very literal interpretation of what the cards would mean. So I realized quickly that like, while the primary target is writers, there's lots of different ways to use cards. And some people don't want the open ended things. Some people want literal prompts. So for the main deck, especially the prompts are designed to be... So like the agent cards are balanced in a particular way where there's a main, very open-ended prompt. That is the prompt that faces you when the card is in its like neutral position, basically. The cards are meant to not really read as being like this way is up or down, but there is kind of a neutral position. So that that's meant to be the most open-ended generic interpretation on that card. And then the other three around the edges are different facets of that concept. Either zoomed in on, in a more specific detail or blown up in a in a bigger, more exaggerated way.   Rekka: So the neutral way is the way that has like the little portrait.   Peter: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the healer is the generic sense. Whereas a therapist is a very specific expression of, of a healer. So if someone who was being very literal got that card and like, didn't really know what to imagine for a healer, it's too big, therapist gives them a very specific thing that they can work with. We all know roughly what a therapist does and, and that would give you a very literal way to start. And that's, I think for the other card that you drew, I think grump was the thing where like we all, literally we can understand what a grump is pretty literally. Yeah. whereas an introvert it's more generic that gives you a lot more room to operate. A wanderer is a bit more specific and active. So there was a, there was a lot of thought that went into how we balanced the levels of narrow prompt versus broad prompt, especially on the agents for the anchors bouncing those cards is more a function of making sure that every card has a setting, a prop something that's a little less non-literal and more interpretable and that all of those felt thematically linked.   Peter: So like a prison and a cage and a key are all thematically linked. And it's meant to keep things in a bit, a bit of a tight space so that people aren't, it doesn't feel like they're dealing with a huge scattershot of different ideas at the same time. Like they understand, okay, I'm thinking about introverts. And I'm thinking about what it means to withdraw from people and that's kind of a headspace you're in for the character, and they can choose different ways to express that same thing when the same balancing act went into the anchors. So yeah, again, a lot of the goal was to put my brain power and not into like making the individual cards impressive, but for removing as many barriers to the system, just working out of the box as possible by balancing things. And like the, it was interesting because for the, the world building deck, world building in some ways is a more specific and yet even more broad and open thing to do. Because there's so many ways to build what is a world and what differentiates one area from another, and what, what makes us having interesting, like there's so many different ways you can differentiate a setting and figuring out, figuring out how to balance those cards was its own...   Peter: Like I had to start again, like none of the lessons that I learned from Story Engine got to be carried over. Like I completely had to start from ground zero again. And and it took, it took a long time to get that one, right. Oh my gosh. I think like Story Engine came together fairly quickly, I think because I had a pretty intuitive model of how I wanted it to work between tarot and that sort of definition of story that has often informed my storytelling choices. But yeah, the world building one, I, that one took so many more iterations to get the balance on those cards. Right.   Kaelyn: So how did you have to tackle the world building deck versus, you know, the story and character building one? And I know it is more of the first, the first set is more of a story-building, but there's definitely some character elements to it as well. Are you going to do a character building one at some point?   Peter: I I've thought about that, but honestly, the, the Story Engine does so much character building stuff and it can be, you can, you can do informed choices with it to make so many different types of characters that I don't think there'd be a whole lot to add to it. Like, I, I, I'm not saying no to that, but I feel like the main thing does such a good job of it. And I don't like developing products just to have new products. Like I would really like to give people something that, that adds a ton of value to their creative process. And right now, I don't know how to add enough value to the character creation process that isn't already there in the Story Engine deck. So that's an idea that's like it's in my notebook, but unless I really have an aha moment where I'm like, oh, this is a way to really open this process up for people and I can justify their time and explaining why this is different from this thing I've already made. Then I'll definitely do that.   Rekka: They need a deck to help you create decks.   Peter: Oh, now that would, I would get, I would, that would be perfect. I could retire, I could retire young and and just let that work. So the, the, the concept that I'm kicking around right now in my head is an open-ended solo RPG that you play by writing. And so it's meant to be like a, almost a campaign where at the end of it, you have 50 new pieces of writing, inspired by different things. And that might actually use draws from the Story Engine deck to generate the content that you're playing in. But the goal is that you write the scene. So it's like a solo thing. But that is basically as far as I've gotten on developing it is that would be really fun and cool. And how the heck would that work? And I have not I've yet to answer even a single part of that question, but it's kicking around in my head cause the other decks have everything you need to generate the content.   Peter: And then the goal is to just give you more reasons to write. And also the thing that I think I'm really after with this idea is like the things that make us love RPGs, the things that like, that make us feel like we're advancing and we're developing a character and we're part of a story and we're... You know, also the cool stuff. Like I got cool equipment and I leveled up like all those things that, that make games easy to say yes to would be amazing if we could turn those things toward generating, you know, our, toward pursuing our creative goals. So being able to like hijack some of those, those dopamine button pushes that we get from from games and make that something that benefits the creative process, I think would be really cool. So that's, that's the that was my, my latest dog walk idea that I've been obsessing over, but not letting myself get too deep into because I have I still have a lot to of like just card rebalancing and design exports have to do with Decker worlds. And I, I like to land one plane before I take off with another one. So that's, that's on the back burner, but it's not quite a deck for making decks, but it is a deck for using decks for making ideas. Yeah. Yeah. So that'd be, that'd be interesting to see how that plays it. Yeah.   Rekka: I haven't seen the world building deck. Is it as broad as the Story Engine in that, like, it would work for somebody writing a contemporary story on Earth and they just needed the situation and that like the community level, as much as it would be for someone like me who likes to write stories where they've never even heard of earth and also I throw physics out the window? So does it work on that broad scale like the Story Engine does and how much of a challenge was it to decide and then cater to ?   Peter: What the world building deck does is create lore. And as long as you're comfortable with like your lore set in the real world being invented lower, which a lot of us are then that's totally, it works for that. It's not what I designed it for, but it definitely works for that. So it runs on, on six types of cards rather than five for the story engine. Two of those cards are almost for like assembling map pieces. So there's like a drone photography style image of different types of terrain and landscapes for the region deck, which kind of sets up like you're dealing with forest land or river land or wetland or canyons or mountains or beach, like it sets a kind of a train type up for you. And then there's a landmark deck, which gives you specific points of interest.   Peter: Some of which are I say human-made and human, here's a short form for whoever made it doesn't have to be humans, but are constructed things. And some of which are naturally occurring things. Like when you have like a, a giant rock or an interesting tree or a waterfall. So you can definitely create these interesting dynamic settings using those. And all of the cards in the main deck are things that exist normally in our reality on Earth. And then there's a namesake deck, which basically you, you pair that with either a landmark or a region. And it gives a specific nickname to that area. I find that this is one of my favorite decks because it immediately creates a sense of lore. So you might end up with you draw like a, a creation that really got sunk into my head.   Peter: Recently when I was playing around with it, it was I think I drew the card arena for landmark or an arena. And then I drew of chimes for the namesake card. So it was the arena of chimes. And for some reason I started thinking about this like a gladiatorial arena where the bones of the dead are hung as like wind chimes, after they fall. And that, I just imagined these rafters all, like, you have this pit in the middle and you have these rafters all around where every time the wind blows through it, and it was set in like a barren area without much wind cover. You just hear that gentle clinking and like the dead are speaking around you and warning you of what could come.   Kaelyn: Real quick Rekka, because I'm sure when you heard that you came up with something mentally. Cause I did too. And it was completely different from yours. I was, I was thinking more of same thing, kind of like a fighting arena, but full of like strange metal poles and like, you know, the chaos of the like bouncing off of that and like making like the screaming and the clanking of swords, you know, everything with that.   Peter: Yeah. So the chimes are those active combat sounds. Yeah.   Kaelyn: Yeah. Well, like also just, you know, like just pieces of metal will be the, you know, naturally occurring or put there sticking up like round sticking up of the ground. So yeah.   Peter: You could do so much cool choreography with that too. Right. Like the swinging on the poles and like gymnastics.   Kaelyn: Yeah. Like, you know, and then like of course like picturing like Roman gladiators, where they used to like put, you know, animals and like captured peoples in there and like have them like hunted. I've got like some weird Hunger Games stuff going on in my head now. So yeah. So, no, it's very funny because like you said that, and you went one direction, I went a completely different direction, but they still, you know, are kind of functionally doing the same thing a little bit.   Rekka: But from the same prompt yes. Which is the perfect example of how flexible this is.   Peter: Yeah. So that's those, those are three of the decks and those, those kind of create your almost like map pieces and you can assemble different shapes out of these cards by tucking them in different patterns. And you can assemble what I call micro setting clusters, and you assemble the clusters into a world map and you can actually apply a scale to it. You can explore it. And then you can use the Story Engine to furnish that world with your characters, with conflicts, with artifacts and other places of interest. But the other three card types, this was the really hard part because I didn't want to do more than six card types. Cause if you've done more than six card types, you've made something that's just too complicated to use out of the box. And there's so many different aspects of what makes a world interesting.   Peter: And it was also, it's very different how you furnish a an, uncolonized setting, like a, just a natural setting versus a space that has been either colonized or urbanized in some way. And we're using the impact of, of civilization. So like how, how do you acknowledge all the different ways that land can be used and that people can co-exist and there's tons of them. So what I ended up doing for my mental categories was coming up with an origin deck, which gives you a fixed point in the past which either is how this place was created or a significant event that shaped it or previous use that it had or some function that's, that's an anchor point in its past for the origin deck. And then there's an attributes deck, which is the current day status quo, how the space is used or what it's known for, or what lives there.   Peter: And then a advent deck, which are current changes that are happening right now that could impact the future of this place. And that category basically past present future is what I think really finally unlocked the worldly aspects because it let me cover so much more material on the cards themselves that way, rather than trying to do like a deck, that's just the politics and a deck that's just the ecosystem at a deck that's just fashion and a deck like that... That's too many decks. What this does is it lets you sprinkle out different types of world, building detail and starting points for prompts. Like it's known for a particular style of textile or it's known for its scholars, or it has an anarchic government system or they worship nature. Like there's so many different things you can bring into that.   Peter: And those all went into the attributes deck, but it lets you still create kind of a larger sense of narrative for the place that you have. And it sets up your setting as a space for story to happen because it gives you here's where they were in the past. Here's where they are now. And here's what's happening that could change the future. And that advent deck that is that change for the future is such a great entry point for telling stories because it's usually the former of a crisis or a change. And it's something where like a Dungeons and Dragons party could get involved and insert themselves into the conflict and try and do something involving it or where your main characters could. This is their inciting incident, is that there's a new tax being levied on like a staple food. That's a really interesting point for like maybe that's where your character starts to to, to become radicalized and then resisting the government, or it's what inspires them to, okay, well, I'm going to grow my own food or like, you know, there's so many different ways that you can use that as a launching point for story.   Peter: But getting to that point where I realized that like there are too many different categories of like how to differentiate an area. So to break the categories out, do that as looking at a space across time, and then it lets you cover so many different phases within the deck that took a long time to get there, like so many different iterations.   Kaelyn: It sounds like it. Yeah, but it sounds awesome. Yeah. I love that. As you know, looking at this, not establishing like a static place and people and culture, but rather like, you know, looking at this, like, what was it, what is it now? What is it going to be?   Peter: Yeah, yeah.   Rekka: Kaelyn Is a student of history. So this is really tickling all the right spots for her in that like nothing is fixed when you're talking about a timeline.   Kaelyn: I was on the train coming back from Long Island right before this. And I've been reading a lot of books about the hundred years of war in England and like the very tail end of it and all of this, these little decisions and machinations that were going into everything and where we ended up that all of this eventually culminates in Henry the Eighth.   Peter: And that magnificent portrait of him, just....   Kaelyn: It was funny because I was looking at that portrait. And at some point I'm going to print that out and I'm going to draw in where I think his arms should be and see if it actually lines up. Because I can't tell if the, the idea is like, cause you can't really see the hook of his elbow much. And it kind of looks like his arm is coming out of his rib cage, but at the same time, I'm realizing it could be the angle he's staring at and he's got this giant drapey, like half-cloak thing over him. So maybe it's it was a Hans Holbein the Younger painted that portrait and he was, he was noted for anatomical accuracy. So I don't, I don't think it was just a weird, like, you know, those medieval paintings and sketches in the books where like, you know, a guy seems to have like a leg coming out of his stomach, but   Peter: Yeah. Or like no neck.   Kaelyn: Exactly.   Rekka: Or was riding a snail. I mean, accuracy was their favorite.   Kaelyn: I, I just love that. It's one of my, you know, speaking of like culture and history and how this factors in one of my favorite things to know is that there were these monks living in, you know, giant abbeys on top of and hills, cloistered from society toiling all day transcribing these things. And they still took time to draw the occasional dick picture in the in the manuscript or, you know, doodle a cute dog that they saw on the side of it. It just, you know, it makes me go like, oh yes, those were people.   Peter: I one of the expansions for the new world building deck is the lore fragments expansion. And so it's for creating bits of in world lore. It's a very specific deck of here are different types of media that might be created in the process of like just a town existing or a world existing. And then there's a deck of flourish cards, which are additional stylistic challenges that you can add to really inform the thing you're creating, but yeah, marginalia, I love medieval marginalia. I did my masters in medieval literature. And yeah, and I it's like a combination of that and folklore and, and I love this stuff, so definitely there's a card in the deck that's entirely just about like, and it has some weird marginalia in it as one of the flourishes. Cause I just, I I love that concept. Yeah.   Rekka: Okay. So with the time we have left, I wondered if we could do a little exercise. Like I said, I have my deck lead me through and we'll just, and we'll just do the simple spread because wow. Some of these could get, you know, convoluted. Lead me through creating just a story. I've got, I've got no ideas in my head. What would you have me do with these cards laid out in front of me? And I'll take a picture and we'll post it.   Peter: Oh, that sounds like fun. Yeah. So I think what I'd do just to set the person up before they get started is to say like, we are going to assemble an idea for a story using different elements that are common to a lot of like interesting stories that have all, all the right stuff in it. And we're going to do that one card at a time. And as we each choose each card, we're going to make a choice about what we want that card to mean and how it might fit into the story. But none of those choices are permanent. We can always hit the undo key and change the cards. And then at the end of this, we'll see what we've got and see how we want to interpret it. Okay. Ubut to start, we're going to find out who our main character is, or who the story might be about. And we're going to draw an agent card with the gold border. And,uwe are going to lay that down face up and we're going to read the four cues along the outside of the card.   Rekka: Okay. So I'm shuffling that particular deck real quick before I draw anything. Okay. So I pulled one and in neutral position, we are looking at a misfit, which is perfect for me.   Peter: I love misfit stories. What else do we have   Rekka: From the same card, those you want me to read the other edges? We have a demon, a monster, and a genius.   Peter: Do any of those speak to you as like, oh, I'd like to write about that kind of character?   Rekka: I think I like the more generic misfit, honestly.   Peter: Misfit. Yeah. Okay. Well then you keep that that cue so that it's facing you and that's going to be our character for now. You can always rotate that card later if you want to change it. But let's find what is motivating this misfit. And let's draw an engine card with the little cog icon and the purple border. And we are going to figure out what might be motivating this character.   Rekka: I have "wants to let go of" or "wants to hold onto."   Peter: Do you want to do a story about someone who's trying to move past something like, oh, something or a story about someone who is like something's being taken away and they're holding onto it?   Rekka: I say the latter. So they want to hold on to.   Peter: Yeah. So we'll rotate that cue into position. And then we're going to find out what they're holding on to. Now here's a choice that you can make. Usually for the default version, you would draw an anchor card here, which is a, it's going to be like an object or a non sentient thing in the story. If you want, though, you could make it about holding onto another character or letting go of another character in that and then make it a relationship thing instead, and you could draw another agent card. We have that power.   Rekka: Let's do that. That sounds good. All right.   Peter: We're going to modify. Like we're already switching up the script a little bit.   Kaelyn: Yeah. I was gonna say, I, I feel like we're like cheating a little bit where we're getting the brains behind the operation here, walking us through this.   Rekka: For those of you following along with the MCU right now, we have just deviated from the timeline. So my new agent card is an artist who might be a musician, a writer, or a dancer. I'm going to say dancer through a misfit dancer. A misfit wants to hold on to a dancer.   Kaelyn: Do they want to hold on to dancing or do they want to hold on to a dancer?   Peter: You can choose to reinterpret the cards any way you like. I always think— I'm definitely imagining a relationship here, but that's me. It'd be really interesting to have someone who's holding up the dance cause that's important to them and why they're losing access to dance as a thing would be really interesting because it could be about physical changes. It could be about hobby time. There's like, there's a, it could be like a particular version of dance, like a dance troupe that they used to be part of.   Rekka: Competing for that position in the dance troupe kind of thing.   Peter: Oh yeah, yeah.   Kaelyn: Maybe they live in the town from Footloose.   Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a, so, you know, the as a historian that, that the whole dancing plague in Strasbourg? I think it was Strasbourg?   Kaelyn: Yup. Well, it started there, it went other places afterwards.   Peter: I want to pitch you a, a new movie called "Footless" where I it's this hyper religious town, Kevin Bacon is dispatched to try and ban dancing from the town and end the plague. And it's a reverse "Footloose" and I just think—   Rekka: And this is what happens when you turn your cards around.   Peter: Yes, exactly.   Kaelyn: So maybe they are losing dancing because there was too much dancing and people are literally dying from dancing.   Peter: Yeah. There's there's there's we have, we have a lot of, a lot of directions we can take it, and everyone can go their own direction with it, which is a lot of fun. I, one of my favorite activities for the multiplayer uses of the deck is that you co-create a prompt and then you write whatever you want out of it, or come up, write down your story, pitch out of it. And just to see like how different the directions can go, or where the areas of overlap are. But let's draw a conflict card next. And this is going to create the, either a challenge to holding on to this. Or it's going to give us a consequence if they do hold onto it, what might happen that's bad. The price to pay.   Rekka: Okay. Shuffling. Okay. And top card after the shuffle is, "but they will likely lose their life" or, "but they will lose their life's work."   Kaelyn: It sounds like a dancing plague to me. Lose their life, I mean, come on.   Rekka: Life's work for sure. Okay.   Peter: And then just to texture the story out a little bit more, we're going to draw an aspect card, and this is just basically an adjective that we can slap on any of the other cards to give it a bit more texture or definition.   Rekka: We have harsh shadowy, seductive, or determined. Seems like determined as the dancer.   Peter: Yeah. Yeah. We could definitely do determined dancer. That's gonna, what I find is that when you draw a an aspect cards, it feels like an obvious choice. That can be good sometimes because it lets you sort of focus in and narrow things down and, and, and lock your idea in, or sometimes what I'll do, if I find like there's a first choice that happens that way, I'll reconsider and see, like, is there something that's more surprising? And that creates something that sticks out a little bit more, and that gives me either a new thing to work with, or I can always like, kind of go back to the thing and be more focused. But yeah, I, every now and then when I get the obvious choice thing I almost always end up sticking with it, but I like to give myself a moment to play with what if I did something that's like harder to work with?   Rekka: What if you didn't. Uh yeah. I don't know what a harsh dancer would be like or someone who doesn't have time for their misfit because dance is all they care about. Okay. A harsh dancer would be hard to hold on to, I suppose. Okay. So would I draw another aspect card then for the misfit?   Peter: If you want to, you can the base prompt usually is usually just one of each card or in this case we substituted an agent for an anchor, but I like to encourage people to like, it's kinda like you taste your food as you make it and season it to taste. If you're like, I want, I want to know more about who the other, the dancer, the dancer, I want to know more about this or that. You can definitely go ahead and draw another aspect card and see where you might fit it. And if you end up not with like, not finding a place for it, you can just chuck it. Yeah. Let's do another one.   Rekka: I'm looking at this one. And I'm saying, what if I switched it? Because you said I can break all the rules. So what if a dancer and we'll say, and we'll go back to determined just for ease of my sentence here. ...Is Trying to let go of the misfit ...but they will likely lose their life implying that like the misfit holds some key, that's going to save them, but they don't want the association with this person.   Peter: Oh, interesting. Yeah.   Rekka: And this could be read both directions where the misfit is trying to hold onto the dancer. Yeah. But we'll lose their life's work if they get caught up in this, you know, honest life or something like that.   Peter: Yeah. Yeah. I like that.   Rekka: And that's something I noticed is that like a lot of these, you could rearrange it and read it in both directions. And then, you know, since you said you come up with your own spreads, what I thought of since going through the instruction book and, and looking through a few of the cards was like, if you have a heist plot, like, you know you want a heist plot, so you take what you would that be the anchor card? And you have that as the center of a cross, and you have four different parties that are moving toward that object. And then you can put their stories in context, and then you have a nice, big, thick, juicy heist plot of four people in competition with each other to get to the thing. But also what's, what's the thing, holding them back or pushing them forward. It's really neat how all of this is creating stories in my head that are probably going to stick with me even after I like remove the cards from my table. So let me, before I forget, I'm going to take photos of these and then, oh, did you say we, I was allowed to draw another aspect card?   Peter: Yeah, Let's do another aspect. If you're looking for more, more seasoning let's, let's go for it.   Rekka: I love seasoning. Ah okay. We have misunderstood, gilded, traumatic, or revolutionary.   Peter: I'm I'm liking revolutionary for the missed it, because it gives her a reason for it to be hard to hold onto them. Like maybe they are a liability, maybe they're involved in like in creating change. That's like in a good way, but in a way that's disruptive.   Kaelyn: Maybe they're Kevin Bacon there to stop the dancing?   Peter: Yes! Yeah. That is, that is, yeah. That's Kevin Bacon right there. Rekka: All right. This is, this is a functioning story right here. Like there's no doubt that you could take this and turn it into something.   Kaelyn: Yeah. And by the way what have we been doing with this for like, I mean, you know, if we hadn't been going off on tangents and interjecting here, this would have been what, about five minutes? So, you know.   Rekka: Very, very short time, but I think the the, the time you spend thinking about like, which edge of this do I want to show is very valuable. You know, you hear advice sometimes like, "write down your first 12 ideas and cross out the first 11 or, you know, enter whatever number you've heard. And this one, these aren't even initially your ideas, you know what I mean? These, I mean, they're prompts and the ideas you come up with are your own, but it's still like, you skip all the obvious stuff because you don't have the option of the obvious stuff. And like maybe the aspect card is the most obvious thing that you might choose. It's impressive. I like this.   Peter: One of the things that I really like about using the deck is that it forces me to avoid the choices that I usually make for what fuels the story.   Rekka: I still got to write a misfit story. You know, like I still have my space pirates, but I never would have incorporated a dancer. You know?   Peter: Yeah. I have, I definitely have a bag of tricks that I've reached for a little too often as a writer. And so it's nice to have something that forces you to reach into a different bag. I know one of my favorite sort of sentences about breaking creative patterns is when Tom Waits described that like between albums, he would break his fingers because they would always, he'd always end up playing the same sorts of chords or the same progressions. So like one, like he would actually, technically what he would do is like pick up a new instrument and learning that instrument would change the way that he played. But that idea of like breaking your fingers and like trying to make sure that you don't always reach the same way or go for the same things.   Rekka: To be clear listeners, we do not encourage you to break your fingers.   Kaelyn: Please don't break your fingers. It makes it very difficult to type.   Rekka: I think in this case, what would it be changing keyboard layouts, like go from QWERTY to Dvorak or something like that. That would be a way to break your habits of easily using the same words over and over.   Kaelyn: Pick a genre that you previously had not been as involved in and submerge yourself in it for a, you know, a month or   Rekka: Whatever the agent who was cringing about us just recommending that their author switch genres, but you just mean reading?   Kaelyn: Yeah, just, you know, a different style, some different, you know, story elements and things you, you know, so you're not reading and ingesting or watching even. I dunno if you're maybe primarily like a fantasy writer, go binge, watch the entire MCU and, you know, see if you come away with some different ideas after that.   Rekka: Yup. Or, you know, Leverage now we get an ending. So go binge leverage. There's I would say like, if you tend toward the high literary, like go slum it with some escapist fiction for awhile or something like that. Basically change it up. I love this I'm, I'm, I know Tom Waits is not about to break his fingers, but I'm still very concerned for him. And I feel like I need to call him after we're off this recording.   Kaelyn: Well, so that was, that was a great idea of Rekka. That was a lot of fun.   Rekka: It was just a simple layout. Yeah. There are, you could go to town on this and something made me think of the MICE quotient, which I think we've covered here before about milieu, idea, character, and darnit, I've forgotten the E [ed. E is for event], But you, the more of each that you add, the bigger your story is going to get. And so if you wanted to write flash fiction, you could start with four cards, like, you know, one aspect or, you know, keep it really simple. If you wanted to plan out a series, you could really go to town, like laying out an entire, you know, 20-card kind of layout to give you the seed for a much bigger world, and then go get the world building set, and then come back and build something even bigger around that. I was hesitant to use it when I got it, because I'm like, "but I have ideas."   Rekka: And now I see how even like on a scene by scene level, like what if I, you know, I lock in my character card cause I know who my agent is going to be, but I don't know what the scene needs, you know, I can play around and all this could just be my scene, just like it could just be a flash piece. It really is way more flexible than I thought it was. For some reason, I thought either it was too broad or too specific and I was intimidated by it, but just doing this and, you know, reading through the guidebook to kind of see the possibilities I have a feeling I'm going to be using this a lot more than I expected to, and I'm going to go get that world buildin

But, what is the secret sauce!? Peter Chiykowski is all about it. He’s an award winning author, cartoonist, dog enthusiast and maker of awesome kickstarters and we get to pick his brains! We talk about it some of the key components to good worlds and how a creator can build such depth into their own settings. Take a second here to listen in on some of this solid wisdom. Peter’s Links The Deck of Worlds Kickstarter – This is THE Kickstarter for you get on the ground floor of if you want to get your brain motor running on creating settings. It’s a fantastic tool.The Story Engine – The precursor to the Deck of Worlds, it’s a modular writingPeter’s Website – Find out more about the man, the myth, the legend here.Peter’s Comic – Rock, Paper, Cynic is a comic that Peter’s been doing for a long dang time and it’s worth some of your eye time. Hang out with us! Join the Club – We love our Patrons and they make this world(crafting club) go round, join us for early episodes, memes and a say in the direction of the podFacebook Page – Our community here is rapidly growing and super fun, it’s also a great way to find out more about what we’re up toDiscord – Well, color yourself invited to our Discord channel where you can jaw with us about worldbuilding or help us with a collaborative projectThe Website – Oh yeah! We’ve got one of these too, check it out if you want to keep track of the blog where numerous authors talk all things worldbuilding. It’s updated sometimes.

But, what is the secret sauce!? Peter Chiykowski is all about it. He’s an award winning author, cartoonist, dog enthusiast and maker of awesome kickstarters and we get to pick his brains! We talk about it some of the key components to good worlds and how a creator can build such depth into their own settings. Take a second here to listen in on some of this solid wisdom. Peter’s Links The Deck of Worlds Kickstarter – This is THE Kickstarter for you get on the ground floor of if you want to get your brain motor running on creating settings. It’s a fantastic tool.The Story Engine – The precursor to the Deck of Worlds, it’s a modular writingPeter’s Website – Find out more about the man, the myth, the legend here.Peter’s Comic – Rock, Paper, Cynic is a comic that Peter’s been doing for a long dang time and it’s worth some of your eye time. Hang out with us! Join the Club – We love our Patrons and they make this world(crafting club) go round, join us for early episodes, memes and a say in the direction of the podFacebook Page – Our community here is rapidly growing and super fun, it’s also a great way to find out more about what we’re up toDiscord – Well, color yourself invited to our Discord channel where you can jaw with us about worldbuilding or help us with a collaborative projectThe Website – Oh yeah! We’ve got one of these too, check it out if you want to keep track of the blog where numerous authors talk all things worldbuilding. It’s updated sometimes.

Today on our podcast, we are talking to Kyle Gray. Kyle is a story wizard. He is also an Amazon best selling author of the Story Engine. He is the founder of Story Pro where he teaches entrepreneurs to create impact using the power of their own stories, including Kristin and myself. He is a world traveler and the host of the Story Engine Podcast. Where to find Kyle: @HeyKyleGray on IG Thestoryengine.co Kyle's books: The Story Engine Selling with Story

Logan is joined by Peter Chiykowski, creator of The Story Engine prompt deck. This fascinating tool useful for writers and gamers alike in creating unique characters and stories.   Find out more information here: https://storyenginedeck.myshopify.com   Want to join the conversation? Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/gPVH7a9  We are also affiliates with Metallic Dice Games: Follow this link: https://metallicdicegames.com/ref/2478/ and enter the promo code STORYTOLD10 to receive 10% off your order! To help support the show, share it, or rate and review on your podcast service of choice. To support us financially, please donate on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thestorytold Instagram: @thestorytoldpodcast Twitter: @storytoldpod Email: thestorytoldpodcast@gmail.com   And follow Fools Moon Entertainment across social media in the links below:   Instagram: @foolsmoonentertain Twitter: @foolsmoonei Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/foolsmoonentertainment/   Our music is composed by James Horan. To contact him regarding composition, send him an email: jhoran99@optonline.net

Sam and Jim invite Annette into the room, and together they work on her animated Christian death metal comedy, tentatively titled "Horsehair".Join us in the room for a discussion on creating a story engine that will power you through a season.Annette's work can be found on YouTube. Punk Rock Yoga Bitch vs. The Goat Demon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALJcVI0P7-8&ab_channel=AnimatedFollow us on Twitter and Instagram: @thesamandjimProducer: J.R. Zamora-ThalLogo Design: Julien Debar-Monclair, @jude.orangeMusic: Buddha Rays, @buddharays

This week we got the chance to sit down with Dr. Megan Connell, a psychologist, DM for Clinical Roll, creator and host of Psychology at the Table, and co-founder of G33ks Like Us. It was amazing getting a chance to sit down with Dr.Connell to chat about utilizing D&D in therapy, the GM training program at Geek Therapeutics and just geeking out. We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did and thanks for listening! Go check out MeganPsyD on Twitter! https://twitter.com/MeganPsyD If your interested in any of the great games and kickstarters Dr. Connell shared please check out: The Story Engine: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rockpapercynic/the-story-engine-deck-of-endless-storytelling-prompts-book Hitpoint press: https://hitpointpress.com/ Growl: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/235451/growl  Sparkle Kitty: https://breakinggames.com/products/sparkle-kitty GM training : https://therapeuticgamemaster.com/ G33ksLikeUs: https://twitter.com/G33ksLikeUs   Guardians Mental Health Check out our 501c(3) non-profits website at https://www.GuardiansMH.org We also have a Patreon if you want to help us keep the lights on and help us with costs to keep the RTS Bot and other programs going. Always appreciated and never expected: https://www.patreon.com/GMHmentalhealthkits If you would like to support our Mental health kits program which are kits that are curated to support a gamer before, during and after gaming sessions with resources and sensory items and shipped to them at no cost to the individual or would like to request one please visit: https://linktr.ee/GMHkits   Leave us a review! Help the Podcast grow so we can continue to bring you our fusion of mental health topics and gaming.

Why are 18-30 year olds proving to be most susceptible to investment fraud? We talk to Hilary McKeekin from the Alberta Securities Commission about desperation, and how "get rich quick" schemes target young professionals. We heard from (literally) more than a hundred of you who reached out to talk@ryanjespersen.com and told us you wanted Real Talkers to hear Les Landry's story. We check in with the citizen organizer, founder of #PeopleFightingPoverty, and learn about why he's taking matters into his own hands. Todd Babiak is a master storyteller. The CEO of Brand Tasmania, co-founder of Story Engine, and author of several celebrated novels checks in (at 4am his time!) to lay out how Alberta needs to tell its story to the rest of the world. It's a live branding exercise you won't want to miss. Plus, plenty of your emails on various subjects throughout this "easy breathing" episode of Real Talk! 22:32 - Hilary McKeekin 1:04:22 - Les Landry 1:35:54 - Todd Babiak

Though my best-known books are Selling with Story and The Story Engine. Not many people are aware that The Story Engine wasn't my first book.  My first book was called The College Entrepreneur.   At the time I felt this really big gap between two narratives that I was hearing.  There was the entrepreneur narrative saying don't go to college at all, and it's a total waste of time and money. Instead, start a business and learn on the streets.  Or the main-streamed university perspective to just keep working to get your degree.  I felt like there was a middle ground that wasn't being discussed.  Because of my experience at the University of Utah, I was able to see what the university was like behind the scenes. I believe that it is important to graduate with much more than just a degree.  The piece of paper on its own isn't really going to get you the career that you want.  I feel like there is nothing better than starting a business to do that.  That is why I wrote The College Entrepreneur. In This Episode:  One of the biggest risks out there that I've seen  Why it's important to invest in yourself Why networking is so important in the business world and so much more! 

 Learn how to capture your story in a system that naturally educates, converts, and sells to your audience Discover why you should have a proprietary process to talk about your business in a way that's both clear and thought-provoking Learn how to move your audience and ideal clients to lean into your service and not tune out Resources/Links: Free resources and downloads from The Story Engine: https://www.thestoryengine.co/resources/ Summary Stories are powerful because they transport us into other people's minds and gives us reasons to think about something that we never thought of. It is like connecting their emotion to their purchasing decision once you hit that buyer's soft spot. Storytelling is one of the cheapest yet effective methods to naturally educate, convert, and sell to your audience for connecting with the emotions (and wallets) of your audience. Kyle Gray is an entrepreneur, story strategist and author who helps coaches, startups, and influencers combine timeless storytelling with cutting edge marketing to ensure you've got the right story to tell while presenting or on a sales call. In this episode, Kyle shares how he helps impact-driven coaches use storytelling to craft a profitable presentation and funnel that attracts their ideal audience and inspire them to take massive action. Check out these episode highlights: 01:04 – Kyle's ideal client: "I can do great with anybody who has really brilliant ideas, but just has a challenge expressing them. But my most ideal client is a health coach or health entrepreneur, right now, that is trying to work with usually complex, challenging inflammatory conditions and needs a bit of coaching and a bit of high-end work with them.." 01:58 – Problem Kyle helps solve: "Like many highly intelligent entrepreneurs, coaches and consultants, in communicating what they do and how the result they're going to get is going to be really valuable. So, I started working with her as well to improve or help them start sharing their story. And it's enabled them to reach more people and heal more conditions like my own." 03:08 – Typical symptoms that clients do before reaching out to Kyle: "They're trying to do a whole bunch of things. They're trying to, you know, maybe they're trying to build their social media following. ." 03:41 – Common mistakes people make when trying to solve that problem: "They discount their services, they discount what they do, and then everybody ends up being a little bit dissatisfied with it all.They're not really charging what they're worth. They feel, they wake up or they feel like this, and maybe this is a mistake, maybe this is a symptom, but they just say to themselves, "I wish marketing just wasn't a thing so I could just help, I just want to help people. I don't want to manage all this stuff in between me and doing that." 05:17 – Kyle's Valuable Free Action(VFA): Do one clear message. Figure out what you do that resonates with your audience. Put it together into one clear lesson, whether it's a presentation or a stage talk. And then align it with one clear offer. And one of the great things about having a proprietary process like that is once you understand the steps you can take; you can start to connect it with different stories. 06:17 – Kyle's Valuable Free Action(VFR): Free resources and downloads from The Story Engine: https://www.thestoryengine.co/resources/ 07:06 – Q: "What would be my guilty pleasure business?" A: That would be rent a pug.Rent them out on the weekends. And I want this business to exist,

Wins, failures and what's ahead for the Story Engine all get covered in this Year in Review podcast episode. Discover what episodes were YOUR top favorites, listen to clips from my favorite guests and learn from my biggest flop of 2019.    Subscribe to the Podcast ITUNES | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE Resources Mentioned  Three Things I Had To Let Go Of To Grow Wim Hof breathing Jeremy Ginsburg Lessons From the Worst Typo of My Life Design Hacking Funnels by Kathryn Jones Kathryn Jones's YouTube Channel Don't Chew Your Chocolate Coaching Waitlist The Goal And The Journey.  3 Lessons We Learned From This Episode  My biggest wins ( 1:28-4:46) and my biggest failure (11:27-13:36) My favourite guests - and the most downloaded show - from 2019  (13:37 - 23:47) What's ahead for 2020 (26:39-29:00)   Connect with Kyle + The Story Engine Buy Kyle's Book - Selling with Story Invite Kyle to speak (events or podcast) Apply to work with us Twitter Instagram LinkedIN

Discover the power of Empathetic Leadership with Story Engine's guest, Ashley Cox. Curious about how to make a deeper connection with your team, clients and audience? Ashley talks about the role empathy can play in your business so that you can create a thriving work culture and lead from the heart. 3 Lessons We Learned From This Episode    5:16 - 6:50 What it REALLY looks like to engage with empathy in your business10:23-12:04 How to tell if you're leading with too much empathy and how to avoid being taken advantage of22:00-23:50 If you struggle with compassion, what does it look like to start practicing empathy? Connect with Ashley Cox Website LinkedIN Facebook Instagram Transform Your Stories   Connect with Kyle + The Story Engine Buy Kyle's Book - Selling with Story Invite Kyle to speak (events or podcast) Apply to work with us Twitter Instagram LinkedIN

In this episode, I'm giving you a personal look into the three things I had to let go of to grow the Story Engine Agency. We've all heard the saying, “You need to get out of your own way if you want to succeed.” Discover three things that can hold you back from growing to your desired place of success and how to overcome them. Resources Mentioned Pat Quinn Podcast Interview Zen blend Microbiome Medicine 2019 Healthpreneur live   3 Lessons We Learned From This Episode  [8:51] the first move I made was to bring somebody in to help me with managing my projects, the details and the day to day stuff at The Story Engine Agency [10:54] As I start to let go and allow [my copywriter] to take on more of the copywriting work, the opposite of my fears have proved true. Her processes have delighted many of the clients and enhanced the strategic and presentation work that I was already doing [12:51] I allow the systems that we've developed to guide and navigate us and find our principals at The Story Engine Agency Connect with Kyle + The Story Engine Buy Kyle's Book - Selling with Story Invite Kyle to speak (events or podcast) Apply to work with us Twitter Instagram LinkedIN   Click Here For The Show Notes

  Today on the show we have the self described “pragmatic, scientific explorer” and cofounder of Whole30, Dallas Hartwig.  Dallas speaks to us today (on video!) about the developmental process of the Whole30 lifestyle and how through the exploration of self, and identifying the places in your own life that keep you from feeling good, you can grow to new heights in both life and business.   What You Will Learn On This Episode The Accidental Creation of Whole30 Chocolate Indulgence as a Metaphor For Life More Social Less Media Examining The Things In Your Life That Don't Make You Feel “good”   Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode Website Facebook Books   Transcription Kyle Gray: Hello, and welcome to The Story Engine podcast. My name is Kyle Gray, and we have a really special podcast today. We're doing a video podcast and we even have a live audience. We've got an amazing guest with us today, Dallas Hartwig. Thank you so much for joining us.   Dallas Hartwig: Thank you for having me.   Kyle Gray: So Dallas, you, to introduce yourself properly is really difficult because you've done a lot of different things. You have many different interests and many different skills. How do you introduce yourself these days? How do you present the full picture of Dallas Hartwig?   Dallas Hartwig: Is the hardest question of the whole thing?   Kyle Gray: I think so.   Dallas Hartwig: Because that is a hard question.   Kyle Gray: I think so, yeah.   Dallas Hartwig: How do I...I'm an explorer. I'm the guy who is interested in figuring out how to live well in a really weird and messed up world. And so I kind of take my experiences and thoughts and research, and occasionally insights, and share that with people in a variety of different ways, sometimes books, podcasts, interviews like this, rambling Instagram posts. But my background is anatomy and physiology. And I'm kind of a science research guy, but then quickly lose interest in the really, really granular stuff when it's hard to connect to the real world. And so I'm a pragmatist in that sense too. I'm like, "Let's look at the research, let's make this make good sense from a solid, rational standpoint, but then let's quickly drag it over into the real world and figure out how do we apply this." So I'm a pragmatic, scientific explorer.   Kyle Gray: And will you tell me a story about a moment in your life that has really defined this path for you, how you've discovered these talents and these perspectives, and maybe that set you on this journey?   Dallas Hartwig: The questions are getting harder actually.   Kyle Gray: Uh-oh.   Dallas Hartwig: No. I mean I think that one of the experiences for me that sort of has defined that aspect of this part of my professional life certainly was the kind of accidental experience of co-founding the Whole30 program. And I say kind of accidental in the sense that what really happened was my former partner and I did some personal experimentation on ourselves back in 2008, 2009 and started tinkering with different dietary approaches to see how we felt, how it affected mood, sleep, athletic performance, et cetera.   Dallas Hartwig: And it was trial and error. It was tinkering. It was playing around with stuff. And then it became playing around with stuff in the public eye. And then it became playing around with stuff and tweaking the program and watching the results. And it was fairly sort of soft science. It was fairly sort of soft science. It was fairly sort of subjective and observational. But it very quickly iterated into something that became a really powerful tool for people. And so that idea of that approach of having an idea that something might be powerful and then just trying it out.   Dallas Hartwig: And I mean the Whole30 program is about food, but ultimately it's a metaphor for living more broadly in the way that you take something that sounds like it might be useful, take something that if you're not sure what's going on with life and things don't feel quite right, you have to change something. And I'm a big fan of Occam's razor. So if you don't know what it is that doesn't feel right or you don't know what the cause of your problem is, guess. Guess the thing that looks proximate and reasonable, and ticker with it. And often, the thing that you have that gut sense is the root of the thing often is.   Kyle Gray: So let's talk about food, and specifically my favorite food. Which when I hear your name, this phrase pops into my head. And it's, "Don't chew your chocolate," which is something... Yeah, this is something a mutual friend of ours mentioned about you right away. There's such a cool and profound lesson behind this. Can you tell me about why people should not chew their chocolate?   Dallas Hartwig: It's so funny that you mention that. That was the first exchange that I had with this friend of ours, probably about a decade ago. And the question or kind of the comment or the discussion was around how much chocolate can you have. And the context was making nutrition recommendations to people and people being like, "Well, how much do I do this? How do I know? How many calories? How many grams? How many servings? How much?" And chocolate's one of those things where I think it's neither good nor bad. I think it's a food like anything else that has implications. And so it's not a function of good or bad, it's a function of what are the natural consequences here.   Dallas Hartwig: So the natural consequences are also proportionate to how much you eat. And so the question was, "Well, how much can I have?" And I was like, "Well,"... It was sort of an offhand remark but it was something that later kind of stuck with me, and stuck with you apparently. But the answer to the how much can you have is you can have as much as you want, as long as you never chew it. And the thought process there was twofold. One, just pragmatically, it's hard to overeat chocolate when you have to let it melt in your mouth. It goes slow. Right? Especially if you've got a really good quality, rich, dark chocolate, it melts slowly. And the intensity of the experience and the richness of the flavors that open up as you let it melt in your mouth are really rich and satiating, and often include the natural, built-in sort of checks and balances to overconsumption. So there's the piece, the obvious piece of it's hard to over consume chocolate when you have to let it melt in your mouth.   Dallas Hartwig: But then there's the kind of, and I think what you're getting at here is the larger piece of to what extent does the experience of, in this case, eating, influence and how much should that guide the way you live in general. And so the other layer to that then is letting the experience regulate itself, letting the natural biological, psychological experience become its own experience and become its own way to navigate. "How do I live in this world? Well, I pay attention and I let the built-in mechanisms speak for themselves." But I really have to listen. And whether it's talking about satiation with food or it's talking about how much sleep you need to get, but really tuning into being like, "What does my body need? What feels deeply good and rich for me?" And sometimes you don't know that till you really slow down and pay attention.   Kyle Gray: I like this. And there is a connection here between kind of chocolate and sugar and consumption with food. It mirrors a lot of what you talk about. You have a program and a training called More Social, Less Media where I feel like social media, like chocolate and our phones and our devices in the internet age, it's brain sugar and it can be really addictive and just hook us in. And we can, like you say, just eat a whole bar of social media chocolate without even thinking about it. What would the don't chew your chocolate approach to technology and many of the fun bells and whistles that we're all engaged with these days look like?   Dallas Hartwig: That's a super good question. What's the built-in check and balance? I think that the comparison there is really, really good, the social media candy bar kind of thing. Because really what's happening is we have something that is justifiable, either as it's social engagement or it's building my business or it's entertainment. There's lots of reasons we can give to other people, and especially ourselves, why social media or chocolate, or any other thing, any other experience, is totally okay. And I think the important part is removing the morality aspect of it, the self-judgment, the right/wrong, good/bad piece of it. Because there's nothing morally good or bad about eating chocolate. And there's nothing morally good or bad about using social media.   Dallas Hartwig: But I think what happens is that the way these products and services are often designed is they're often designed sometimes explicitly to obscure the natural effects from ourselves. Or, if that's not the case, we're more than willing to turn a blind eye to the natural effects on ourselves because we like how it feels. So we build in opportunities to use or consume the thing more often than it's probably helpful for us. So I think to me it's difficult... And of course one of the things with the you have to let the chocolate dissolve in your mouth piece is it slows you way down. You can't do it mindlessly, it's effectively a mindfulness exercise. So in slowing down and paying attention, what you can notice is, "Oh, I've had two squares of dark chocolate. I don't actually want more. I don't want more." And you can just literally ask, "Do I want more?" And you're like, "Actually, I don't." And it's an easy answer. It's an easy solution.   Dallas Hartwig: And I think there's probably something similar there with social media consumption as well. And the question might be there, "Does this still feel good for me?" Good, capital G, settling, meaningful, does this enrich my life? But you have to slow down to be able to ask and answer that question.   Kyle Gray: I think one of the big things behind it is with a new social media, a new technology is usually it's like there's something that gets us in and gets us hooked. "I want to stay in touch with my friends in different countries...   Dallas Hartwig: Totally.   Kyle Gray: ... or from college." But the reason that we usually sign up for these things isn't always the reason that we stay scrolling. I think that's what you mean by the natural effects of what happens here.   Dallas Hartwig: Right.   Kyle Gray: And so one of the things I've been considering and working on is really getting clear, even writing down what is the purpose for me for using this tool.   Dallas Hartwig: Right.   Kyle Gray: It doesn't have to just be social media, but once you're clear on how you use those or the real benefit that it derives to you, then it's easier to kind of set the boundaries.   Dallas Hartwig: Yeah, I think, to your point about the real benefit, I think the deeper the hooks are set, the harder it is to see the real benefit. I think that what happens is we start to create compelling stories, compelling narratives for ourselves about the real benefits. Because when I really drill down on it, when I think about Facebook, and I'll just use that as an example, the real benefit, the tangible benefit either to me personally or to me professionally is negligible. But I could pretty easily make a compelling story about like, "I have to build my brand and I have to have visibility and I have to put in new content to get new followers to sell more books," or whatever the outcome is.   Dallas Hartwig: But the real, tangible benefit is a lot harder to identify as a real thing when I'm more interested in whether it's a real thing or whether I'm just trying to justify myself. That's just being honest with yourself. And that's a difficult thing to do when you have an inherent reward system present, whether it is the reward system for digital stimulation or for sugar or for sex or for any other highly-rewarding thing in the world. When you have that reward system present, it's difficult to see the real truth there.   Kyle Gray: Is there a way to break those cycles? Is that individual to each of those? Or do you have some favorite strategies to kind of snap yourself out of those patterns?   Dallas Hartwig: I think there's a lot of commonalities between behaviors. I think there are specific strategies, but I think there's a lot of commonality. And I'll drop the word “addition” here because that's a word that I think does truly apply in a lot of these cases. And I use that loosely in the sense of sort of continued use despite harm, not in a psychiatric sense but in a more broad sense. Because ultimately when we are able to sit quietly and introspect and slow down, what we notice is that, "Every time I get on Instagram, I end up feeling bad about myself because I'm comparing my life to somebody else's life. And actually, it doesn't actually feel good for me. There's not actually a lot of net benefits, but I still do it." And so there is that continued use despite harm to myself aspect of it.   Dallas Hartwig: And I think ultimately recognizing that is the very first step. Like any 12-step kind of approach, it's like, "Hey, I have a problem. This doesn't work well for me." And I think change happens when the fear of the change is... Or I'll say it the other way. When the pain of it remaining the same exceeds the fear of the change. And that's kind of been the impetus for so many changes in my own life of, "This thing's not working for me. It has to be different. And at this point, my greatest fear is having my future be like my past." And I think that's, on a smaller scale, the way that all things change, including things that are really difficult to change, things that have inherent reward pathways built in to them and things that are truly addictive by anyone's definition. But it has to hurt before you're going to change it.   Kyle Gray: I can see that. And it's one thing to be able to be self-aware, we've gone through life, we've had some experiences and we can kind of see, "Oh, there's maybe a problem here." But I think you also have a son that you are working on creating the best life possible for him. And when you are trying to work with somebody on the same level and maybe protect them or guide them and help them navigate this world where kind of the food we eat and the norms around the food we eat aren't exactly set up for their success, and the technology around us is not set up in their best interest either. And then there's also culture and other kids and other parents. How do you navigate these systems and how do you prepare your son and teach them to show them, "Here's how you can find your way through this world."?   Dallas Hartwig: Well, that's a big question too. The short answer is I don't know. My boy's six. He and I have about the same levels of cognition so we identify easily with each other. We're both finding our way through the same world at the same level. But a lot of it has to do with helping him develop a very clear sense of self so he knows who he is and what matters to him. He's a six year old boy and right now his favorite color is pink and he likes unicorns and nail polish and pink shoes. And some of his peers are really unkind to him about that. And so we're having lots of good conversations about what it means, girl things and boy things, who you are, how you respond when people are unkind. And that's a current example, but there has been and there will be many, many more experiences in his life, like all of ours, where we have to figure out who we are, what matters to us.   Dallas Hartwig: And when that comes into conflict with the dominant culture, with the norms, how do we handle that? Do we fall into line because there's enormous social pressure, consumer pressure, financial pressure to shut up and do as you're told? I mean I think this is kind of my social cynic coming out but the conventional education system does a really good job of training industrial factory workers. But, A, that's not where most jobs are these days and going into the future, as best as I can tell, and B, it doesn't actually make people's lives richer and deeper and more meaningful. It might prepare you for a financially stable job in a cubicle, but it's not something that's going to give you the best, the most complete, most meaningful set of tools to go out and explore the world and find out what my actual meaning and purpose myself, for me.   Dallas Hartwig: So the conversations with my boy are a lot around, "What do you think about that piece? What do you think about that art things you just did? I happen to like it but the important thing is do you like it? You made it, how do you feel about it?," and having him check back in. And I had this moment of parental pride the other day where we had a conversation and he didn't like my answer to one of his questions. He wanted to do something and I said no, we couldn't do that. And he started to get frustrated and angry with me. And he's figuring out the balance of expressing anger without acting it out. And he was like, "Give me just a minute." And he turned around in his chair and took a few breaths and calmed himself down. And I was like, "Yeah, I'm doing something right here. I got a six year old who's like, 'Give me a minute to take some breaths.'"   Dallas Hartwig: But that's the kind of stuff in being able to separate self from everything else and to have a sense of not that, "I'm so important or I'm so confident that what I think is the most important thing, and screw the rest of you," but more that as he learns, and as I learn at 40, that I need to know what's important to me and to recognize that there's absolutely no way to live a meaningful, happy, if that's the word, gratifying, satisfying life if you are conformed to somebody else's standard, no matter who that other person is. And we do a really bad job in this society of teaching kids how to figure out what that is for them, which is why I'm doing at 40 what he's doing at six.   Kyle Gray: That's awesome. So you mentioned the education system here. So let's do a thought experiment and imagine we've just started the University of Dallas. What are some of the classes on the curriculum?   Dallas Hartwig: Oh, interesting. This is a great one. It's funny because I just talked about education with a friend a couple of days ago. And I think the way I concluded that conversation was, "This whole large, standardized education system doesn't work, but I'm totally overwhelmed, I don't know how I would build something that would be more customizable for each individual," so I don't really know. I think a lot of it has to do with self-exploration. And you go all the way back to attachment theory and development of infants and toddlers, we have to feel accepted for who we really are as babies and infants and young children to be able to develop the ability and confidence to be able to go explore new things.   Dallas Hartwig: And so this is informing the way that I parent my boy and I parent myself, because in order to go explore and figure out what I like in the world, what am I good at, what fills me up, I have to have this sense of confidence that that's okay to do and I have unconditional acceptance and love from, in my childhood, parents and then later from partners and peers and friends, and from self. And so there's kind of this closed loop of if you don't get that in childhood, you have to develop it later. And it's really difficult to give that to yourself later if you didn't get it in childhood. So there's a lot of extended personal growth there that then sets the stage to be able to go explore the world.   Dallas Hartwig: So courses would be very self-directed. Courses would be very exploratory. There's a balance, right? There's a balance you have to do some things just to try new stuff that you didn't think you would like or didn't think that you'd be good at, but then also there's the part of, "I don't know what's right for you. I don't know what electives you should take. Go figure it out for yourself." So I think there's a lot of the conventional, general courses and electives that we take in university have some utility to give us some context for the world that we live in and also they don't really do the thing of teaching us how to think like they say that we're supposed to. So have you heard or seen the David Foster Wallace... He gives a lecture many years ago and he talks... And I think you find it on YouTube if you search for David Foster Wallace, This is Water.   Kyle Gray: Oh, yeah.   Dallas Hartwig: It's a brilliant commencement address I think, I want to say Bates College or somewhere, or Kenyon College. And he talks about finding our way through a very confusing world and the whole, "We're going to teach you how to think in a formal education system." He's well-intentioned but really, really oversimplified.   Kyle Gray: Okay.   Dallas Hartwig: That was my way of not answering your question.   Kyle Gray: It was a good way. It worked, it worked. I'm still ready to enroll. This one, maybe this can be one of the courses that I would sign up for. Actually, I'm asking for a friend on this one. But you've talked about success versus satisfaction. And this is something that I wanted to ask you about because I've found myself at many points in my life I would set a goal, "I'll make this income, I'll achieve this, I'll travel here," and I'll get focused and start doing it. And it takes time to achieve a goal.   Dallas Hartwig: Yeah.   Kyle Gray: But as somebody who's ambitious and always forward thinking, by the time I actually get to the finish line of the goal, I have three more other goals that I'm looking for that are off in the horizon again, and I don't have time to celebrate this one anymore because there's three more and the clock's ticking.   Dallas Hartwig: Totally.   Kyle Gray: So it's a path to success in some forms where there's motivation, there's always an impetus to go forward, but it's hard to really be present and enjoy life if you're always in that. How do you handle that balance as somebody who's seen lots of different success in many different ways?   Dallas Hartwig: Yeah, I definitely handle that situation differently than I used to, for sure. I think that success versus satisfaction is an interesting thing because there is tremendous satisfaction in succeeding at your own self-created, self-assigned goals. And also, often, usually because of either misunderstandings about ourselves or misunderstandings about what we really, truly, deeply value, or because we take on many sort of culturally and socially-assigned goals, we think applying ourself to achieving the things will make us feel satisfied, give us a sense of satisfaction. And many, many, many times I, and many of my peers, do the thing, whatever the thing is, and get to the end and we're like, "Wow, that was kind of cool. I did the thing. It didn't feel quite how I thought it would," or I'm on to the next thing already.   Dallas Hartwig: And I think this... And you hear the commonly quoted research on people's top five regrets when they're on their deathbed, and none of them have to do with achieving more things. It's all about relationships and the way they spent their time and the way they valued people and the way they were vulnerable and intimate and connected to people that they cared about. None of it had to do with achieving more goals or having more success on any kind of professional, academic, financial way. That's just not what people think about. And if you think about a sense of satisfaction, that's something that is a thing that takes a long time to develop and it's kind of a slippery thing and defined differently for each person.   Dallas Hartwig: But I don't know too many people who are deeply, completely satisfied by solely professional, academic, financial success. So then it becomes a function of, "Okay, what is this a symbol for? What is this a placeholder for in my life?" Why does it matter if I get the promotion or make partner or make $10 million? Why does that matter to me?" And I think understanding what that means... Because I think there's nothing inherently wrong with doing those things and they can be really, deeply satisfying if they meet the need that you've set out to meet with them. And I think lots of times that we don't even know what we're setting out to achieve in the deeper sense of self.   Dallas Hartwig: So for me, and this is I guess an uncomfortable admission, but I don't have professional goals right now. I mean I have pragmatic goals of like, "I have to get my third book done because I'm already way behind schedule." But in terms of, "What do I do next?," I actually don't know. And that's a uncomfortable place to be because I have financial commitments, I have people asking me, I have people being like, "What's next? Where do you go from here?" My agents like, "Okay, cool. What," and I'm like, "I don't know." But there is a certain type of satisfaction in having the free, clear, open head space to be able to explore some of those things without having three more goals already set for myself. And that's not criticism of you, that's just I'm at a different place.   Kyle Gray: Fair enough.   Dallas Hartwig: So I have found the fewer specific goals I set, the more satisfied I am, which does not mean that's the way it is for anybody else. Because for me, in the enthesis, I'm a sort of very kind of flowy, things change a lot over time. To your point, I've done lots of different things over the years. The more specific I am about my goals, the more myopic I get about achieving them. And you can use the analogy of playing football and advancing the ball down upon down and making touchdown or not. But at the end of the day, what do you do? You move the goal line, you make another first down. I don't know much about football, I'm from Canada. I don't do this stuff. I think that's how it works. But then, okay cool, you made a first down or you made a touchdown and then you just do it all over again. And then the game's over eventually and you're like, "Okay, cool. I had six," or 60, or 6,000, "successes." Who cares? I don't think in those win/lose terms. So I think ultimately it comes down to, again, knowing what matters to you. And if making the most touchdowns in your life is actually what matters most to you, do it. Get a sense of satisfaction from that. That's just not my process.   Kyle Gray: So as we follow this path that you're illustrating for us, discovering who we are, what we want, and kind of being able to separate ourselves from the message and the narrative that society is offering us instead, whether it's with food, eating better, changing your diet, or changing the way you interact with technology or pursuing a goal, it requires a certain amount of deviance.   Dallas Hartwig: Yeah.   Kyle Gray: At first, when I started changing my diet and being more careful with what I eat, it was a little bit challenging to ask the waiter or waitress every time, "Hey, can I have gluten-free bun with that or a lettuce wrap?," yeah, changing around the orders, or being at somebody's house and being like, "Sorry, that's just not on the menu for me." So it's a muscle that you need to work, this deviance muscle. And how do you recommend people start practicing that and growing that muscle and that attitude of deviance to be able to pursue what's truly the best for them instead of what the world offers us?   Dallas Hartwig: Yeah, I mean that's the million dollar question. And I'll point directly to my dear friend and colleague, Pilar Gerasimo. I think I can say this, she's writing a book called The Healthy Deviant. And that's something that she's worked on, a concept she's worked on developing for 20+ years now and has written extensively about it. And I was very fortunate to just get a copy of the manuscript last week. So that'll be out I believe December or January, so it's coming up soon. But drawing heavily on her perspective, that concept of healthy deviants, not just of rebellious deviants, of counter-culturalism but the concept of thoughtful deviants, what matters to me and the recognition that conformity to the current, messed up norms doesn't produce outcomes that anybody wants. And if you agree with that statement, then we can get to a place we're like, "Okay, if I want something better than not good, I have to do something different."   Dallas Hartwig: And so then recognizing that all of those norms, all of those conventions, work well for economic growth. They work well for social compliance and keeping law and order, so to speak. But they don't really work well to make individual people deeply happy. So there has to be the willingness to question like, "Oh man, maybe we're not actually on the right track here," as a culture overall, and then say, "Okay," if we think that's true, "what do I as an individual, which is all I can control, what do I as an individual do differently?" And it's not an easy process because you very quickly find yourself misunderstood, alone, confused about yourself, about your own identity, about your own values and goals, judged by other people, as you've probably experienced with some of this stuff. And the great thing about something like food is that the social norms are slowly shifting, so it's not so weird now to go into a restaurant and ask for a gluten-free option as it was 10 or 20 years ago. And so, in that sense, some of the social norms are making it easier for us to make healthy choices.   Dallas Hartwig: But in a lot of other ways... A friend of mine said to me recently, talking about dating, and she was like, "I need to find somebody who's not on Instagram." And I was like, "Why?" And then I was like, "Oh yeah, yes, I got it." But that willingness to say, "Okay, this is a thing that many people do," but the thoughtfulness it requires and the sort of intestinal fortitude to do a different thing is a certain statement, is a certain corollary of strength of character and clarity about values. And I always come up with this... I'm a scientist, I always think about, from a biological standpoint, if you remember back to your high school biology class where you watched the video of cells, one cell dividing and kind of pulling apart and becoming this figure eight shape and then there's two different cells there. And I have this recurring vision of society being a lot like that where we have an unbalanced division, a mitotic division there of people who are staying the course, being pretty unconscious, being pretty conventional, and they will plummet to their own oblivion, if my prediction is correct.   Dallas Hartwig: And then there is a subset, there's a different group that has to painfully pull apart and extract themselves from that convention and free themselves to do a different thing. And that's a painful, odd, excruciating, confusing, disorienting, exhausting process. So how to do that, in short, I don't have a short answer on that. A lot of it has to do with recognizing that you may or may not be on the right track right now. And then you're free to say, "I wanted it to be different."   Kyle Gray: I think I have a short one or an easy practice.   Dallas Hartwig: I'm ready.   Kyle Gray: I learned this from Tim Ferriss. But he says, "Buy a weird pair of pants. Not so weird that people just know you're being crazy but just a little bit weird so people are like, 'Are you sure you wanted to wear those pants?'"   Dallas Hartwig: I have a pair of those pants actually.   Kyle Gray: Yeah.   Dallas Hartwig: They're burgundy corduroy.   Kyle Gray: There you go.   Dallas Hartwig: They're just... Maybe they might not but...   Kyle Gray: They're just... Yeah, yeah. You just want them to be just bad enough that people are like, "Did you really?"   Dallas Hartwig: "Did you do that on purpose?"   Kyle Gray: Uh-huh.   Dallas Hartwig: Yeah.   Kyle Gray: And just being able to do that and be in situations where you've got to be a little bit professional or show up, you just kind of work that muscle and practice being a little bit deviant.   Dallas Hartwig: Right.   Kyle Gray: But it's surprising that that's the same thing that everything else requires that we've been talking about.   Dallas Hartwig: Yeah, I like that. I think it's a good one. My girlfriend will not be seen in public with me wearing a denim shirt with denim pants. She won't be seen in public with me.   Kyle Gray: I don't understand that.   Dallas Hartwig: I don't understand. Canadian tuxedos are classy.   Kyle Gray: Yeah.   Dallas Hartwig: But apparently not everyone agrees with me. But that's one of those things, that's my version of the weird pair of pants.   Kyle Gray: Oh, that's great.   Dallas Hartwig: But, yeah, I think that's a good starting point.   Kyle Gray: Yeah. Dallas, we've covered a tremendous amount on how we can live better, how we can live more consciously, and how we can live a life that really serves us and not set up to serve a narrative that's not in our interest. Do you have any closing thoughts to share, and then we'll open it up for a few questions?   Dallas Hartwig: Closing thoughts, I think one of the things that I'm kicking around a lot these days is this recognition that I've spent so much time in my life conforming to parents' standards, teachers' standards, boss's standards, friends, colleagues, society at large's standards that I haven't really, really figured out who the Dallas is way at the bottom, the one that I probably left behind when I was five. And I think that's an experience that, in talking to friends, I think a lot of us have and may not really even recognize that that's the thing. So I would encourage, and this is me giving myself advice, I would encourage further exploration of that. Because ultimately, we go way off track a lot without recognizing that we're off track. And then things don't feel good and we don't know why. And so I'm like, "Okay, let's strip it down, let's go back to basics and figure out who am I all the way at the bottom, when I'm by myself, when no one can see what I'm doing and no one knows my thoughts, no one knows what I want to do. Who is that person and what does that person care about?" And that can be both unsettling to look at and also really healing. And that's the journey that I'm on and the journey that I would encourage everyone to kind of undertake for themselves.   Kyle Gray: Well, Dallas, I can't wait to meet the Dallas that you're working on and you're bringing forward. And thank you so much for joining us today.   Dallas Hartwig: Thank you.   Kyle Gray: Are there any questions?   Dallas Hartwig: I think the question, if I'm getting it right, is if I don't set very specific, very tangible, quantifiable goals, what do I do in place of that? Is that about right?   Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.   Dallas Hartwig: For me, it's so much more about the process, so much more about moving through the experience of life and recognizing that I can set professional goals, I can set personal-growth goals that are more likely to be achieved if I write them down, I do all the goal-setting stuff that works really well. But that doesn't necessarily get me to the place I want to go. So a lot of it, for me, has become identifying areas of my life that don't feel good and just putting attention on those. And that could be relationships, that could be the way I spend my time, it could be my health, it could be any number of things, and just identifying, "Where do I feel friction? Where do I feel a lot of resistance? Where do I feel discomfort or pain or just a lot of suffering?" And then letting that naturally kind of follow me into that space and to put more attention on it, because that changes over time.   Dallas Hartwig: As we iterate ourselves, what we put attention on evolves over time. And I don't have a sequence or a thing there, for me, for better or worse, it's a very organic, malleable, free-flowing process, but it starts with identifying what doesn't feel good, i.e, "What do I want to be different?" And once I know what I want to be different, then I can start inquiring, "How do I achieve that?" And often, going all the way back to your point about the Whole30, some is experimentation. It is, "This thing with my health or my food doesn't feel quite right. Something's not right there." And I sometimes don't know what the endpoint or what the long-term behavior is or the pattern or habit that it needs to be to make it feel really good, but I do know that that's the place I need to start exploring.   Dallas Hartwig: And I think, again, Occam's razor, simple solutions, if you have a gut sense that you're not putting enough attention on your physical health, start putting some more attention on that. And the things that we put the most effort into excusing and justifying and avoiding looking at are usually the things that are our biggest stumbling block. So when I suggest to people, "Oh, I see that your diet's really pretty good but I also noticed that you're drinking most nights of the week. Maybe giving that a break for a while might prompt some kind of progress." And they're like, "No, it's totally fine," and they get this very defensive posture. The more defensive you are, the more important it is to you on some profound level. And if you find yourself getting really good at justifying things or emotionally responsive and sort of reactive and defensive, that's a dead giveaway that that's the thing you need to look at. So it's kind of the litmus test of, "How much do you hate me for saying this?," that's the thing.   Kyle Gray: I like that a lot.   Dallas Hartwig: So the question then is how do I know if I feel good?   Speaker 4: I guess that's it.   Dallas Hartwig: Is that right?   Kyle Gray: Yeah.   Dallas Hartwig: If you don't feel good, you know. If you do feel good, you probably know. And so I don't know that it's actually useful to try to quantitatively define, "Do I feel good?," to myself, relative to somebody else, relative to some objective external standard. If you are perfectly content in your life, I don't want to change anything. If everything feels good, I don't want to change anything. If you tell me everything feels good but you say to yourself, "Well, not really," all that really is happening there is sort of self-delusion. And that's not my business to meddle with. But if something doesn't feel good to you, you'll probably know because you'll probably notice a yearning for it to be different, some piece of it. Right? And we have these deep, profound yearnings of like, "Hey, I wish this thing in my life was different," or, "I hope that in 10 years it'll be that way instead of the way it is now." And so the recognition that we want it to be different than it is, there's the litmus test.   Dallas Hartwig: And it's different for every single person. And this is actually one of the aspects of the Whole30 that I still really stand by in every other self-experiment is I don't need to or don't want to, it actually works against the process of self-exploration and self-development for some external expert, guru, whoever, to say, "This is what you should eat," and how much, at what times of day for this outcome. I don't know any of that for you, and neither does anybody else. And the ones that say they do are lying, usually to themselves because they think they do. But if it feels good for you, you know. And if it doesn't feel good for you, you're the only one that's going to know whether it feels better or worse when you start changing things. And so start changing things, and start at the place that feels the least good.   Dallas Hartwig: And what often happens, and this is, again, what happened a lot when people started changing their diet with the Whole30 program, if that was an area where they were like, "I really need to put attention on my health, on nutrition," and they started changing that, lots of times relationships, creativity, sleep, and many other things in life, that were lesser issues but still didn't feel good, started to self-resolve. Because these things are all interrelated. So what you might find is if you start with the most obvious place that doesn't feel good, some of the other things may just start to feel better. And you might not even notice that until weeks or months or years later where you're like, "Oh yeah, I used to get that really bad seasonal allergy thing or used to have seasonal depression in the wintertime. And I kind of don't have that anymore." And you don't even notice because it just never reappeared. So long-winded way of saying you are the only person who knows whether it feels good for you or not. I can't tell you that.   Kyle Gray: Thanks for listening to the Story Engine Podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes and resources mentioned on this episode and every other episode at thestoryengine.co. If you're looking to learn more about how to use storytelling to grow your business, then check out my new book, Selling With Story: How to Use Storytelling to Become an Authority, Boost Sales, and Win the Hearts and Minds of Your Audience. This book will equip you with actionable strategies and templates to help you share your unique value and build trust in presentations, sales, and conversations, both online and offline. Learn more at sellingwithstory.co. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.  

  Today's guest is Jodi Ettenberg. Jodi has an amazing story.  I met her about five years ago at a conference for location and dependent entrepreneurs in Bangkok, Thailand. Everything that she has done up to that point and since has been very, very impressive. I'm excited to have her on the show.  She left behind a profitable, lucrative career in law to take a one year sabbatical that transformed into an accidental business that would change the course of her life forever. We're going to hear all about that today. I also have a really deep admiration for Jodi, that she spent the last 10 years traveling the world, exploring new foods, and putting together incredible content based on it. She's recently run into some health challenges and had a very critical operation go wrong about a year ago. She hints at this story a little bit in the interview, and I'm going to include some links where you can learn more about her story and what she's been going through.     What You Will Learn On This Episode The Appropriate Times to Monetize  The Journey of a Legal Nomad The Art of Facing Your Fears Accidental entrepreneurship: Finding Your Calling   Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode Legal Nomads The Legal Nomads Shop  Instagram Facebook Twitter Cure by Jo Marchant Spinal Tap Story Celiac Cards Shop Food Maps   Transcription Kyle Gray: Hello, and welcome to The Story Engine podcast. My name is Kyle Gray, and today on the show, we have Jodi Ettenberg. Jodi has an amazing story. I met her about five years ago at a conference for location and dependent entrepreneurs in Bangkok, Thailand, and everything that she had done up to that point and has done since then has been very, very impressive, so I'm excited to have her on the show. She left behind a profitable, lucrative career in law to take a one year sabbatical that transformed into an accidental business that would change the course of her life forever. We're going to hear all about that today.   Kyle Gray: I also have a really deep admiration for Jodi, that she spent the last 10 years traveling the world, exploring new foods, and putting together incredible content based on it. She's recently run into some health challenges and had a very critical operation go wrong about a year ago. She hints at this story a little bit in the interview, and I'm going to include some links where you can learn more about her story and what she's been going through. But I just have so much admiration for the strength and courage that has brought her to this point. So without any further ado, let's hand it over to Jodi.   Kyle Gray: Jodi Ettenberg, thank you so much for joining me on The Story Engine podcast today. I am so excited, because I've known you and admire what you have been building and creating for a long time, so it's really exciting to get a chance to chat with you today.   Jodi Ettenberg: Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here.   Kyle Gray: So Jodi, I want to introduce you properly to the audience, and the way I love to do that is by asking you this question. Can you tell me about a time or a moment in your life that's defined who you are and how you're making an impact in the world today?   Jodi Ettenberg: Oh, that is a very good question. I think the most important point for the trajectory I've taken was probably when I gave notice at my law firm and quit my job to take what I thought would be a one year sabbatical and travel around the world. I remember shaking I was so nervous to give notice, thinking that this was sort of this wide open nothingness before me, and I had no idea what would happen next. But in all of the options I thought of, staying and traveling and building a different career outside the law was never even on my radar. And so I definitely think that's one of the big points in my life that changed everything going forward.   Kyle Gray: And tell us what happened. So you mentioned you thought this was a one year sabbatical. What were you doing? What were you up to, and how did it become not that?   Jodi Ettenberg: Right. So I went to law school in Canada, and I applied when I was actually 18. And I got in, and so I started law school quite young. And I never really wanted to be a lawyer. People I see in my family really wanted me to be one, or there was some sort of other influence. But the reality is, they thought I was nuts for going to law school really young. And Quebec has a system where they take some people straight out of CEGEP, which is grades 12 and 13, and put them in with everyone else who, like in the States, has done a three year or an undergraduate degree or master's or whatever, and then applies to law school. So I was very, very young. I remember my first day of school someone telling me to go back to high school where I belonged, which did not start things off on the right foot. And they also told me never apply for a job in New York because you'll never get one.   Jodi Ettenberg: And to me, I figured going to law school would be a great education. It was at McGill University in Montreal. It's a wonderful school, and it would teach me how to think in a different way that must be useful I thought. Tuition in Canada, much lower than in the States, so I could afford to make this kind of obnoxious decision to go on a bet. And when I got a job offer at a firm in New York, I figured I would work for a few years and then take a sabbatical to do something I always wanted to do, which was to visit Siberia. And that was sort of percolating in the background for many, many years after seeing a documentary about the Trans-Siberian trains when I was younger. And over the years, as I was working, it sort of grew into, "Well maybe it's not just Siberia. What if it's a round the world trip?"   Jodi Ettenberg: At the time, there were very few travel bloggers. I didn't know what that was. There was just a site that I followed, it was three women who quit their jobs in New York to do a round the world trip. And I decided this would be something that I also wanted to do and I basically saved up money while everyone else thought about more, I would say, adult things to do. Buying a house, settling down. I was excited to put money aside for this big trip that I was slowly putting together.   Kyle Gray: And so this trip became the foundation for your blog, Legal Nomads.   Jodi Ettenberg: My accidental, yes, my accidental entrepreneurship is what I used to say.   Kyle Gray: Really?   Jodi Ettenberg: Yes. My blog, Legal Nomads, was not started with anything other than a place to share stories for my friends and family and my former clients. The S in Legal Nomads was another lawyer. So I worked in New York for about five and a half years as a corporate lawyer, and I met, on one of the last deals I worked on, this opposing counsel, and she and I ended up grabbing dinner with someone else on the deal team and we talked about travel. And I said, "You know, I'm really thinking of a longer trip," and she was too. And so we actually started out together, and the S was her in Legal Nomads. So it was two lawyers. Our original slogan was, "Two lawyers, one world," which was a terrible, "Two girls, one cup," joke. And we basically just figured we'd share what was going on for the people that loved us and thought we were nuts for leaving the law and doing something quite extreme.   Kyle Gray: So when you created this, you were out on your journey, and you're accidentally falling into entrepreneurship. Was it a one year sabbatical at first, and you were like, "This is what this looks like," and at what point did it become something else?   Jodi Ettenberg: So she did what we both planned to do, which was to take one year and then go back to the law. She works in-house. She had several jobs after. It's been now quite a few years. I left in 2008. And she actually said she was not surprised that I never went back. I was, but she said she saw it coming. Essentially, I started out on Blogspot. I traveled with no smartphone. Well, I had my Blackberry still for the first year. Once a lawyer, you have your Blackberry with you at all times. And I would just stop at internet cafes with her and we would write updates, and we had different posts. We'd alternate.   Jodi Ettenberg: We split up because I got quite sick and I had to take some time to recover. And she kept going on the plan that we had sort of put together on an open track ticket. And I got to Asia and through the trains, through my beloved Siberia trip, and went through Siberia and into Mongolia and then came into China through Erlian and I just figured out that I wanted to stay as much as I could in Asia. And at the same time, I realized I had very much over budgeted for this trip. I had never really spent the time traveling in developing countries. I didn't eat street food much before. I wasn't in countries that had too much of it. And I also truly had no access to the kind of budgets and spreadsheets that are really readily available on the internet today. It was much less of it at that point.   Jodi Ettenberg: So we sort of made this rough budget based on this average of daily spend, and when I got to Asia and southeast Asia, I realized I was very much over budget and I could continue for longer than I realized. And as I kept doing that, what happened is I started writing on the site. Jess went back to the job. She wanted to continue as a lawyer. I kept writing, and with her blessing, took over the site, although I kept the S. I probably should have changed to the Legal Nomad at that point. And what happened is I was living in Bangkok for some time and was offered to write for CNN Travel, which was then CNNGo, to start doing some freelance work for them based on some pieces I wrote on my blog about Myanmar. And it was probably the first time I really thought, "Wait a minute. I can get paid to do the work that I'm already really enjoying doing," that wasn't work, right? It was just me sharing because I really enjoyed it.   Jodi Ettenberg: And at that point, the blog had been voted best new travel blog for what was very few travel blogs out there at the time. And so it was kind of gathering its own readership. And from that point, I basically moved onto WordPress and started treating it more like a business. I actually picked up a laptop, for example, which I didn't have before. I got one I remember in Kuala Lumpur going to the electronic supplies and being like, "I should get a laptop because I'm going to actually think of this differently now." So it really was serendipitous, it was organic, it was I think very lovely. I look back on it thinking I was pretty naïve about it, but in that it never occurred to me to think of this as a springboard for something board. But I loved so much the act of writing. I enjoyed storytelling. I just was enthralled with this idea that through communicating different aspects of these countries, people could think differently about them and the fact that it wasn't just my mom reading any more was a shock to me.   Kyle Gray: When you started getting some of that first feedback from your audience or listeners and readers, how did you start to define, "Okay, this is really my voice and this is the message," or, "I'm a great writer and so I'm going to really focus here." How did you find the style within that really started to connect with people?   Jodi Ettenberg: It's a great question. I don't think I ever felt like I was a great writer. I think as a writer, it's always important to keep learning and honing your craft as much as you can. Most of the writers I know have some sort of imposter syndrome going on. I mean, not from that perspective, but I did feel really great about this idea that there was maybe something here that could be an act of creativity. When people asked why I quit my job as a lawyer, I would say that the kind of private practice I was in, I didn't like what it did for my brain. You're being paid to catastrophize. You're being paid to mitigate catastrophe ahead of time. And now knowing what we know about the science of story, about the brain and neural pathways, that's really encoding some negativity in there. And being paid to do it didn't make that any healthier for your brain.   Jodi Ettenberg: So from my perspective, to have this real joy about what I was doing was exciting enough that I never had the kind of sit down and write out a goal in terms of my messaging. It was, "Whatever I do, I'm going to maintain the integrity that I feel is important as a reader." And that was probably the most important constant throughout the years as my writing has changed, as my destinations have changed, and my story has kept going as we all do by living. It really, the aspect of integrity and respect for whatever readers, be them two readers or 20 or 2,000 or whatever, 20,000, it was a matter of, "I'm not going to take sponsored text links. I'm not going to take advertising on my site. I'm going to use the blog as almost a CV for what I love, and look to other ways to make money."   Jodi Ettenberg: I think the most important thing for me from the get-go was if I ever built out a community, which thankfully and amazingly to me I did, which at this point is bigger and more wonderful and more so than I ever anticipated. I never wanted to offer them something for sale first that wasn't from me. And so the first thing I really sold to my audience was my own book, and that was important to me from the very beginning, possibly because I spent quite a few years working in advertising law. So I was just like, "I'm out." Maybe that's where it came from. But I really wanted to start with what I felt was important at a time where the few travel blogs out there were very much taking sponsored text links that really were not contextually accurate with the content they were putting out-   Jodi Ettenberg: And so it stood out.   Kyle Gray: That's a real challenge to be able to hold to your values, to be able to be so clear on what it is that you're doing, that some of these things like, yeah, sponsored links, or yeah, lots of other different products or different ways to try and sell things or monetize your content.   Jodi Ettenberg: And there's nothing wrong with monetizing content, right? I mean, your podcast is speaking to that audience in part. What's wrong, what I saw was wrong as the travel blogging industry evolved was that people were, I felt, monetizing content in ways that weren't really authentic or it wasn't organic to the content. And I preferred, if I had the privilege of having an audience to really be judicious about how I sold things. I was accused for sure at the beginning of being sort of snobby about it, but the way I saw it, I worked really hard as a lawyer to save up money and build this site that sort of was becoming a new business, and I wanted to be cautious, because there was no undoing a lack of caution on that front.   Kyle Gray: That's true, and I think it's very tempting to monetize too quickly or to attempt to do that too soon or like you were saying, in a way that's inauthentic. And things like with this podcast, for example, one of the most common questions I get is, "How are you monetizing it?" How are you monetizing your blog? And really, I see this as a platform to have great conversations with people and to connect with people like you. And there's certainly monetization pathways, but it's more of a creative outlet. And I see your work primarily coming from that. But as you were resisting these temptations Were you still able to kind of continue with your savings that you had? Or you mentioned you had put together a book. When did this blog become a business for you in its most authentic way?   Jodi Ettenberg: I would say probably around 2010, 2011. The book was published in 2012 I believe. I definitely looked through the industry and like you said, there are various different ways to sort of leverage the audience you have to be involved in the work you do, and it doesn't necessarily require a direct sell. I had put aside a certain amount for my trip, and I was committed to spending it in a way that I continue to do with my travels. And I said, "If I get to the end of that amount and the business hasn't turned into something sustainable, then I will go back." That was sort of the deal I made with myself. And the initial work that I got was through freelance writing, starting with CNN. I worked as well as a travel ambassador for a company. I had one ambassadorship, and it was a Canadian company that I would send, recommend to friends and family before they approached me, and it was a really good fit. And so I would do trips with them occasionally.   Jodi Ettenberg: But for the most part, the book and then public speaking and moving through different ways that I could fix pain points in my community became the way the business moved. So I would say 2011 was when I started doing public speaking. That was at the first World Domination Summit. And it was the first time I actually ever spoke in public to an audience like that.    Kyle Gray: That's a pretty big stage   Jodi Ettenberg: Oh yes, it was   Kyle Gray: Your first time speaking.   Jodi Ettenberg: Here's the fun part. Chris Guillebeau didn't ask me to be a keynote speaker. He asked if I could help with his conference, and I actually said this when I did the talk on stage because I was shaking like a leaf, my first public speaking endeavor, and I said, "Of course Chris, whatever you need. I'm happy to help." And he put me up as one of the keynotes. And it wasn't until other people were emailing me being like, "Jodi, why didn't you tell me about this?" And I was like, "What are you talking about?" And he like, "Well, you know, people are excited now, so are you going to back out?" And I was like, "No."   Kyle Gray: What a sneaker, Chris Guillebeau.   Jodi Ettenberg: So it was a sneaky move, I know. Beautiful move though, and frankly, that also really changed my life because as sick as I felt to my stomach, I threw up before I got on stage to give you an indication. I won most easily embarrassed in high school, so talking in front of 500 people, which was the first speech I did, was just not really in my wheelhouse. But I did basically use it as an opportunity to face something I was afraid of, which many of us are, which is public speaking, and I vowed to take any gigs that came my way in the coming year to try and get over this crippling fear. And I spoke I think at 12 different times in the next year and a half. I pretty much threw up for all of them, but that sort of ended the throwing up.    Kyle Gray: Not bad, alright.   Jodi Ettenberg: Got used to, yeah, so. Trial by fire. But I saw speaking as simply another extension of what I did with writing, which is, how can you affect change in the minds of the people that you're interacting with, and doing it in a true voice, be it podcasts or talking. It really is a different mechanism, and it's a wonderful way to affect change. And so it was important to me. I don't think of myself as just a writer, right? I just try and communicate, and that includes all of the media that that's available, and that includes speaking. So it was a tough year Kyle, but I'm excited that I was able to give it a shot.   Kyle Gray: I can imagine. And it's one of the most valuable and powerful and I think authentic ways to connect with people and to really get your message across.    Jodi Ettenberg: Yeah, I agree.   Kyle Gray: In front of people is worth hundreds of blog posts in some cases.   Jodi Ettenberg: Yeah, I would agree with that, very much so. And throughout the years, I started doing more keynotes. I started moving into talking about storytelling and how it affects the brain and speaking to groups of educators. It really has been a wonderful way to share messaging in a way I, again, I never anticipated, right? I didn't do litigation. I'm not going to court. That wasn't the kind of lawyer I was because I was terrified of speaking in front of people, so. I'm grateful for what it has helped me evolve as a person as well and not only get this messaging across, but from a very personal level, I'm very grateful for it.   Kyle Gray: So one of the things that's really powerful that you're exemplifying with this story is actually the power of kind of storytelling and your own identity and who you are and how that impacts your brain and the possibilities you see, the opportunities you see. Can you share with me, alongside this going from very timid to keynote speaker, what are some of the other transformations in your story and your perspective and your identity that you underwent, had to undergo, as a result of growing Legal Nomads and accidentally becoming an entrepreneur?   Jodi Ettenberg: I think that it's really remarkable, right, how business can affect change through story, and that's part of why you do what you do. From a personal level, the biggest changes were probably this pathological compulsion to face the things I was afraid of, not just the public speaking. But I almost drowned as a kid, and so sailing in open water was something that terrified me. And so I took a multi-day sailing course in New Zealand, and I wrote about fear and neurobiology of fear and how our nervous system takes over when we do things that we're phobic of. I tried to use the personal evolution as something to write about that people could feel understood by perhaps, hopefully, right? If their comments are any indication, then yes.   Jodi Ettenberg: And for me and the journey that I've taken, I don't think I ever would have thought of myself as brave or fearless growing up. I was quite shy, and I look back on the last 15 years and the choices I've made, and I think I am the same person I was, but I definitely feel prouder of how I've confronted the things that I'm afraid of. And it's hard to do that for anyone in life, right? It's not easy. When I quit my job to travel, it wasn't easy. And I remember laying in bed in New York thinking, "What, am I just insane? What if I arrive somewhere and I don't have anywhere to stay, or don't speak the language?" All the normal fears that everyone has. But like anything, by slowly confronting in a compassionate way, I think I've evolved as a person the way we all do as we get older. But I look back on the trajectory, and I'm sort of astounded that I was able to do it based on how shy I felt growing up.   Kyle Gray: That's really, really cool. You've mentioned a couple of times your study of the brain and storytelling and how they interact, and I would love to know some of the most interesting or useful things you've learned in your studies, or maybe something that with your clients or your community that you've mentioned that is some of the most useful for that.   Jodi Ettenberg: I think there are wonderful studies that really go into using FMRI machines, how our brains can be tricked by really good stories into actually thinking we're going through actions that we're not taking. We're just reading about them. A good, good narrative has the ability to put our entire brains to work and really pushes the confines of what we know is possible in how we interact with things, taking, inspired, let's say, by Humans of New York. A lot of us have followed his amazing feed and allowing storytelling to affect change, storytelling to bridge gaps between understanding of where we are and where others are. How I've used that in my work is less important than how it's just asking people to do the same.   Jodi Ettenberg: A 10 list can just be us explaining to them, or it can be this illumination of what we take as this universal truth, that we're all more connected than we realize. And in the context of travel, which was the world I really was in, that travel can change lives by doing that, by showing that connectedness from disparate points in the world in ways that we never really thought possible.   Kyle Gray: That's beautiful. I believe we met in Bangkok.   Jodi Ettenberg: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.   Kyle Gray: At a conference there. But I agree with you on that. I'm just really feeling your statement there, because yeah, traveling to me, yeah, definitely brought forward and showed me just yeah, that humanity everywhere.   Jodi Ettenberg: Yeah   Kyle Gray: And within everyone.   Jodi Ettenberg: A lot of the keynotes I gave were to travel writers and photographers, and I would try and speak to encourage them to include a concerted effort that of narratives elements that were important to build sort of a remarkable business that was sustainable online. So on the one hand, that's the stories that affect change and create this kind of emotional response in readers and in your community and allows your readers to reframe the way that they see the world. And in another, much like I'm sure you've discussed on this podcast and in general, it includes the narrative loops in your own life, in your own business, that your community can seize upon and sort of amplify and encourage that helps you stand apart.   Jodi Ettenberg: My readers all know that I hate olives because I hate olives, but also because there was this ongoing problem where everyone kept trying to feed me olives and find the one olive that I would love. It's something innocuous and small, but I get tagged in hundreds of olive photos over the years. When anyone sees a group of olives, I don't think there's an official, like a murder of crows. But someone sees olives in a supermarket or on their travels, something so small, right? But people associated it with me.   Jodi Ettenberg: Same with the soup. I've written and talked a lot about soup as a gateway to understanding food and culture. People sent me photos of their soup over the years and their recipes.  Not everything needs to be leveraged into a monetization opportunity. There is and there may be, or down the pipe, a way that those things can turn into something more. But even just have that foundation of connection with the community. I was gleeful at the amount of interaction, and I didn't set breadcrumbs necessarily on purpose at the beginning, but when I saw just how interactive things became, it really formulated part of how I continued to write, because it was that beautiful exchange. It wasn't just a megaphone. There was a back and forth, and part of that included the parts of my story that they, my community felt they could seize and amplify themselves.   Kyle Gray: See, that's funny, and I think a lot of the things that I try and bring out of the people I work with is, just those funny little quirks. It's hard to stand out, to be whatever you're doing. I'm the best coach or service or expert out there on anything. Because I will happily join you on the no olives, please train.   Jodi Ettenberg: Sweet.   Kyle Gray: Or, yeah.   Jodi Ettenberg: Wonderful.   Kyle Gray: I'm with you on that. But those are the little things, those are the little details that help connect us. And finding those and sharing those and creating that deeper, funnier, more personal connection with people is really I think the magic and the-   Jodi Ettenberg: Yeah, for sure.   Kyle Gray: That we all are really going for and yeah, trying to create. Another key element that I see along with transforming your story, which can be an uncomfortable and uncertain process, is on the path, a lot of us have to make investments of one kind or another, maybe time, maybe energy, sometimes money, that at the time when we set out to do it, it's scary. You feel like a sink in your stomach and then you have to go. You make the move. But it turns out to be a really good investment for you, for your growth, for your business. Do you have any examples of that in your own path?   Jodi Ettenberg: Sure. I think way back when, when I was still on Blogspot, moving to WordPress and then hiring someone to help build a site. I didn't even really know what WordPress was at the time. That was a big investment back at a time where I had no real business yet, right? It was just my Jodi eats the world narrative. And that sort of felt like it could be a huge waste of my time and energy and money. But I wanted to give a fair shot to what I was excited to build. I think it's the same for big infrastructure builds.   Jodi Ettenberg: I have a Shopify store for maps of food that I had drawn. I didn't personally draw, I designed them and drew them so terribly that when the artist I did hire said, "I can see why you hired me to actually ink them." She's lovely, she was just like, "I get it." And so building a Shopify store for me was a big investment, not knowing if there was as much of a market as I had hoped for the products that I was building, that they were unique. They were one-of-a-kind, and I felt passionate about it.   Jodi Ettenberg: And then I think as a writer as well, investing in the craft is very important, and good writing workshops don't come cheaply. But they're very important, because that is the tool, right, the big tool that I've used the most, writing, and speaking. And it's a really invaluable amount of instruction. So I think the investments come at a time where you've hit your kind of leverage point. You're like, "I can't do this myself. I need an expert, and I am going to pay for that expert." And those are the big investments, regardless of what part of your business that looks like.   Kyle Gray: Absolutely. And yeah, the writing workshops inspires me. I haven't invested in a workshop around that skill recently, but I can see a lot of value in continuously developing and honing and maybe even developing parallel kind of skills of the craft. I've started practicing writing a little bit of fiction, just as a challenge, or just as something a little bit different to inspire different creative parts of my mind, and hopefully improve new areas of business.   Jodi Ettenberg: Yeah, I think that's great, the creative spark that comes from that, right, when you're really indulging in a part of your brain that you're not usually activating. You don't really know what emerges, and oftentimes it's something really wonderful that comes back later and connects beautifully to something you've already put together, or just a new project that emerges out of that instruction. I'm very suspicious of writers who say, "I don't need to learn more," because I think we're always learning. That to me was the best part of what I did when people say, "What are you doing?" And I was like, "I'm being paid to learn as much as I can every single day," and how insanely beautiful is that? And how wonderful of an existence is that, that I have the privilege of building a business that allows me to suck up information-   Kyle Gray: Absolutely.   Jodi Ettenberg: And then put it out into the world and somehow, it connects with people. It's just, it's been an honor, truly, to have a community, and one that's super engaged. And I know we haven't touched on my current situation, but for those listening, at the moment, I've been on bedrest for quite some time. I had a medical procedure go awry, and sort of stopped my life, my nomad life, in its tracks after 10 years. And my community and how incredible they've been, how supportive they've been, the amount of emails I received where people wrote me when this first happened to explain how my writing changed something for them was just astounding and the sort of feedback we don't often get when we're alive. It's the thing eulogies are made of. And to get sort of this living eulogy, for me, I was thrilled with the business I built. I loved what I did. I was just always looking for ways to fix problems my readers had and make that part of my business.   Jodi Ettenberg: I'm celiac, so I would get sick when I traveled using translation cards that were available. And so I started building my own that were more detailed than what was out there using local food names and going through two rigorous translations, because it was something my readers struggled with, not just me. So to have this kind of digestible feedback from my community saying, "We appreciate what you've done," was just really amazing and humbling.   Kyle Gray: That's beautiful. I have to remark on the excellent word choice of digestible feedback in that specific context. Jodi, it's so inspiring to hear your story and how it's unfolded, and it brings a huge smile to my face to see the community that you've built and that you've created over many years. And yeah, honing yourself, honing your craft, improving, challenging yourself, and see if come forward and continue to support you and as your story develops and unfolds. Thank you so much for joining me. I want to, if you have a closing through to share with us, and then let us know where we can connect with you and learn from you.   Jodi Ettenberg: Sure. I think I'd close by saying, you had asked at the beginning whether I wanted to chat about what was going on now, and I mention it because I think one of the biggest continuous sets of questions I receive is from either lawyers or other professionals seeking to travel and afraid to take that leap. And I always say, "You should figure out what skills you've got, figure out your plan B if this doesn't work out." Not just to blindly jump into the void. But to have then watched my life shift in the way it has where right now, I'm not capable of really working or walking or traveling, I'm so grateful that I did what I did. And life really does change in an instant, but to have built a location independent business as well has been a huge, amazing thing, because my business keeps running, parts of it. A lot of it cannot, but parts of it keep running. The celiac cards keep selling, my food maps keep selling. And I set it up that way based on the kinds of principles that you and I have learned in entrepreneurship.   Jodi Ettenberg: And generally, I think if someone is really wondering whether there's something that can bring them more fulfillment in their work, it's important to sit down and think about, if life changes tomorrow, will you be happy with what you've done? And that's a question that I had to reckon with unfortunately, but I was so grateful that when I looked back at the last 10 years of life and then my legal career before that, I don't have any regrets.   Kyle Gray: That's so beautiful, and it leaves me both inspired to continue to live my best life, but also feel really grateful for my own path and my own journey, and I really appreciate that.   Jodi Ettenberg: Thank you. It's a privilege, right? I acknowledge and want to make that clear, that it is a privilege to be able to make those choices.   Kyle Gray: Absolutely.   Jodi Ettenberg: I didn't have the school debt. If you have the privilege and the ability to make those choices, then that is a question that you absolutely need to be asking yourself.   Kyle Gray: Definitely. So, and Jodi, tell us where we can find you, connect with you, and check out some of these awesome food maps.   Jodi Ettenberg: Sure. So the web site as you said is Legal Nomads, and that's just legalnomads.com. The shop is shop.legalnomads.com, or it's on the home page of my site. And I'm on that same name, Legal Nomads, on Instagram. I use Twitter the most these days, because I'm reading a lot since I'm on bedrest, and Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook of the same name.   Kyle Gray: Any book recommendations since you've been reading a lot?   Jodi Ettenberg: I just read a book called Cure, which is by Jo Marchant, and it's about mind body medicine. She's a scientist from the U.K., goes into how we can manipulate our immune system using conditioning and things like drinking a very strange-tasting liquid while listening to the same song, and then taking a medicine that you're taking to eventually train your immune system in ways that we never thought possible. And so it's sort of fascinating forefront of mind body medicine, and I really enjoyed it.   Kyle Gray: Awesome. Well thank you, and I do want to check that out myself. Jodi, this has been an inspirational, very fun, and just an excellent interview, and I want to thank you again for joining us on The Story Engine podcast today.   Jodi Ettenberg: Thank you so much for having me.   Kyle Gray: Thanks for listening to the Story Engine Podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes and resources mentioned on this episode and every other episode at thestoryengine.co. If you're looking to learn more about how to use storytelling to grow your business, then check out my new book, Selling With Story: How to Use Storytelling to Become an Authority, Boost Sales, and Win the Hearts and Minds of Your Audience. This book will equip you with actionable strategies and templates to help you share your unique value and build trust in presentations, sales, and conversations, both online and offline. Learn more at sellingwithstory.co. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.

  Today on the show we have Jake Jorgovan. Jake is a friend of mine who I met many years ago collaborating around content marketing, and he has continued to grow and thrive with content marketing.  Particularly, he is known for having really great transparency in his content, sharing what he's doing in his business, the exact templates and processes for how he's doing it, and even how he's feeling in both the highs and lows of his business. He's going to talk about that today, and how that's built a trust and a bond with his audience that's very strong. We're also going to learn from him on how he creates his pillar content, which drives a lot of leads and recognition, and attention to his different businesses. And finally, we're going to learn about how he manages himself and how he manages his team.  He not only sees himself as a manager trying to make people get things done, but he sees himself as a leader and a coach. Taking time out of his week to personally improve each of his team members. So without any further ado, let's hand it over to Jake.     What You Will Learn On This Episode The Art of Team Building Coaching Up to Get Your Ideal Employee Content Creation that Converts The Importance of Transparency Creating the Number One Resource on the Internet for Your Niche   Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode Lead Cookie Content Allies jake-jorgovan.com   Transcription Kyle Gray: Hello and welcome to The Story Engine Podcast. My name is Kyle Gray and today on the show we have Jake Jorgovan. Jake is a friend of mine who I met many years ago collaborating around content marketing, and he has continued to grow and thrive with content marketing. Particularly, he is known for having really great transparency in his content, sharing what he's doing in his business, the exact templates and processes for how he's doing it, and even how he's feeling in both the highs and lows of his business. He's going to talk about that today, and how that's built a trust and a bond with his audience that's very strong.   Kyle Gray: We're also going to learn from him on how he creates his pillar content, which drives a lot of leads and recognition, and attention to his different businesses. And finally, we're going to learn about how he manages himself and how he manages his team. He not only sees himself as a manager trying to make people get things done, but he sees himself as a leader and a coach. Taking time out of his week to personally improve each of his team members. So without any further ado, let's hand it over to Jake.   Kyle Gray: Jake Jorgovan, welcome to the Story Engine Podcast. It's so good to have you on the show.   Jake Jorgovan: Thanks for having me on here, Kyle.   Kyle Gray: So as we first got on this call, we were reminiscing. We had connected maybe four years ago, working at WP Curve together. And it's been a big journey since then. You've done a lot of different work in content marketing and building teams, and building brands. And I'm excited to explore that all. And I want to introduce you properly with a story, and ask you what is a defining moment in your life that has brought you to who you are today and serving the people that you serve today?   Jake Jorgovan: I think probably one of the most defining moments was the start of what became, I guess my nomadic journey. And I've been doing the digital nomad thing for almost I think five years now. And prior to that, I ran my first business, which was this video agency and we had this big office, and I cared a lot about what everybody thought of me. I could have taken home way more money if we hadn't spent it on making our office look really cool and hip.   Jake Jorgovan: And then I left that business and I went and I tried this healthcare startup, which was this horrible thing. But I had some investor who was , "Video technology, I'm going to give you money for this startup." And it was this first horrible cataclysmic entrepreneurial fail of my career, and it was at no fault of the business model. It was , "What am I doing? Why am I in a healthcare startup?" And so I basically left that. And at that point I had a four hour work week, and literally bought a ticket to Mexico for my then girlfriend, and now wife and myself.   Jake Jorgovan: And started this journey of traveling and working remotely, and figuring out how to make a living abroad, and everything. And that was this huge, really turning point of everything and that's when literally my personal brand and my blog started. I had done a little bit before then but that's really when I got serious about it was when I was , "Well, I'm not around anybody. So I'm going to write a lot." And that's the moment when everything in life changed and also when actually the personal brand started as well.   Kyle Gray: I think that's really cool. A powerful moment. A brave decision no doubt, but you had some good foundational skills that you could rely on. And you had the ability to learn new skills along the way and you've done an amazing job at it. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're up to and what you're doing today, and kind of connect the loop between that defining moment, that bold move that you made those years ago? And what's become of you since then?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah. So basically the journey between is basically the next four years. I don't know probably three years of kind of chaotic and freelancing, and consulting, and trying a variety of things, and really figuring stuff out. And then it was about two years ago. Actually is it? Two years and one day ago I literally started what became Lead Cookie, which is the primary business that I'm running now, or the main business. Which is done for you LinkedIn lead generation service.   Jake Jorgovan: And so there's a lot of consulting and personal branding, and various things that I attempted for years. And then Lead Cookie was the first, I guess real entrepreneurial success I've had that's taken off, where we're doing done for you LinkedIn outreach. And then basically it was about six months ago, started up Content Allies, which is a content marketing agency where we're focusing on basically helping turn consultants into thought leaders. Basically people who are experts in their field, but don't have time to write. So that's what I'm doing today and the abridged journey of how I got there.   Kyle Gray: What do you think some of the key skills are that have led you to where you are today?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah. I think one of the biggest things I think that comes to mind that I don't know if it's as much of a skill as it is a realization that I have, but it's this idea that your business is a reflection of yourself. And it was not too long before Lead Cookie, It was probably about a year before Lead Cookie, I tanked really hard. And I was living in Colorado, marijuana was legal. I was smoking and I was not in good habits.   Jake Jorgovan: It was a bad point of life, and I see a lot of people don't realize that are struggling and fumbling around is they don't realize that your personal habits, your routines, your health, the vices that you give into or don't give into. All of those impact your ability to produce in business.My life wasn't so much chaos that I couldn't get myself to focus or do the things that I needed to do. And when you get all of those out of the way and you get your own life in order, and your own family in order, it's way easier to show up and do the work when life is nice and orderly and not chaotic and not total randomness.   Kyle Gray: That's powerful. And Yeah, a big transition that is a lot of different subtle changes. Along this journey too, I'm sure you've made a lot of really big or scary investments. And one of my favorite questions of late is what's a big investment that you've made on this journey that maybe at first was scary or you weren't sure about it and then it's really paid off?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, yeah, I think the biggest one is definitely investing in coaching with Alex McClafferty who is one of the co-founders WP Curve, which is who you were working for at the time and he sold his business to GoDaddy and made an awesome company. And so investing in coaching with him was super scary because it's , "Oh man, I am not even making great consistent income already and I'm going to now pay for advice. " And I guess a scary moment, but it's the ROI on that, I am a completely transformed and different entrepreneur as a result of it and have built a great business. I'm building a second business and the skills that have come out of it it's even if I never worked with Alex again it would have been one of the best investments I've ever made. And I think that that's really true regardless of where you invest, but taking that step to invest in yourself in some capacity is super valuable and important.   Kyle Gray: Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the qualities of a business now as a result of this coaching, or as a result of this work you've done. When you are looking at a business now and the health of a business, and the health of your team, and everything going on, what's important to you now and what are you really looking for in something you create?   Jake Jorgovan: Actually I wrote a whole article this week on thinking through business models, because of Lead Cookie, it's been a great business. I've built it up, but ultimately I built this company where we've got about 60 customers on retainer. We've got a team of 26, but I built it on a short-term marketing tactic. LinkedIn outreach, it's going to get disrupted, it's built on someone else's platform and it's only a matter of time before things change. So when I started it was "How can I make money? I want a business." And I literally wrote down a weakness , "LinkedIn could change some day." And "Oh, that's all right. I'll figure that out down the line." And then I'd get into it and "Oh wow, that's actually really hard to figure out once you've built this whole thing."   Jake Jorgovan: And I built a weak business model from the start. So the second time around with Content Allies a lot of what I'm thinking through of the qualities of a business. I want to build a business that is stable, it is not prone to external disruption, it is valuable and has a strong offer and value proposition. So it's not a commodity that I'm selling that's hard to get in the door, but the big thing is I want to build something that gives me freedom of time and gives me stability so that I know once it's built I never have to worry about money again. What I'm aiming for with Content Allies is to build that stable engine that is a great business. Where even if I don't scale it up to huge to make it rich, it's to know that I've built something that gives me freedom and that is super important. So I guess freedom of time and stability with that as well.   Kyle Gray: Absolutely. One of the things that you mentioned before we got on the call that you credit some of your success is being incredibly transparent in your writing and in your personal brand, and that driving a lot of the growth and interest for the businesses that you're working for. Can you give me some examples of what this kind of transparency looks like, and some principles that guide you around sharing the details of what's going on behind the scenes of your business?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, so basically I'm an advocate of being a completely open book. Even internally with my team, we share numbers, we share revenue, we share profit, we share everything and I've always been totally open with it with my team. And so it wasn't that unnatural for me to start sharing that out with my audience. So I started publishing playbooks. You can find the exact sales scripts that I use on my website. You can find the exact scripts we use for our LinkedIn outreach and everything. I've literally published the dashboard that we track and how we measure. I've tracked our sales flow charts and how we run everything, and so I started giving away all of the playbooks and inner workings of my business.   Jake Jorgovan: And so that was this first level of transparency and then I think there's this more subtle one of that was I think, I guess a bit more tactical and easy to see. But then whenever I was actually starting up Content Allies I went through probably about three different iterations of this before I landed on simple content marketing agency with a specific persona. But I kept trying these different things and at one point I had had it going and I was basically doing a virtual assistant service for content marketers to support them with everything surrounding their uploading, and the content management process and all of those little tasks. Which sounds kind of good and theory, but it was this horrible business to run. I'd even signed these customers and I think we had 11 customers on board but it was going horribly, and no one was happy. And half the people we couldn't even get through the on-boarding and it was , "This is a nightmare business that I've got myself into."   Jake Jorgovan: So I literally shut it all down. I refunded it and I wrote up this article it was , "I'm shutting it down." Or something like that  the first word was failure effen sucks. And then it was this super raw post about the emotional feeling of it, why I was shutting it down, what I learned. And I got 60 responses from my email list. It was this crazy pouring in of responses, and feedback, and positive encouragement, and people that could relate. And it was this crazy level of engagement that I had never seen from my email list before. And that was where I noticed this shift where these people that were then buying Lead Cookie or even when I eventually relaunched something new. These people were so engaged and had become loyal fans that they were buying if they could, and if they weren't buying they were referring me to other people.   Jake Jorgovan: So it was this crazy putting yourself rawness out there I think creates this emotional connection and loyalty that people got behind. And it wasn't maniacal, it happened. I put it out there and that was what happened as a result.   Kyle Gray: It seems this is a result of a long series of practice. Did this start from a certain habit, at WP Curve they did a monthly transparency post? Or have you always been sharing what's ever, or sharing your revenue and been an open person?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, I've been publishing articles or writing for a long time now and I think, I don't know, the transparency is stuff that I always noticed seemed to resonate with people. And I saw that other people did it and I always did it. It definitely made me interested in their content whenever you're able to not see some of the numbers, but you're really able to see into the weight of things or ... Once you get into entrepreneurship and you actually have some success, you start to be able to see the people that are posturing and putting out fru-fru stuff that makes them look really legit. And then you start to see the people that are real and they're , "Hey, this is hard." And I resonated so much more with the people that weren't showing off all the time and actually put out the real stuff. So I think I always tried to emulate that as I connected with those people a lot.   Kyle Gray: Yeah. Are there any risks to this kind of transparency? I think off the cuff somebody might think putting your sales scripts out there that you're currently using in your company that it might actually be harmful to you in some ways. Have you found risks or do the rewards outweigh them for you?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, I mean I have no doubt that people are, heck, I know competitors of mine even personally who are trying to use and take our scripts, or even take my sales scripts and use and stuff. And so I know that I have spawned a bunch of competitors. It's been a bunch of up and coming competitors that are hiring me for these to get advice. So it definitely can spawn that, but to me the rewards are worth it. I think that most cases the implementation is always way harder than the knowledge. And so even if you can give someone a bunch of the tactical stuff, the scripts, or frameworks , it takes a really experienced person to actually build a real business. I have no doubt that there are some people out there who have taken what we've done and they've built some small businesses, but to get something of actual substance that takes a lot of subtle things that you can't learn from an article or a blog post. So in my mind, I do think the rewards outweigh the risks there.   Kyle Gray: Very cool. As far as great content goes, something that you're trying to create in your agency, and something that you're trying to create for yourself. What are some of the qualities of really good content that you want to create and share on your own personal brand, and create for other people?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, so there's two ways that I look at this and I'm literally putting together this guide for consultants now on the approach, but I think that the cornerstone content or pillar content, whatever you want to call it. I'm a big believer that if you have your area of expertise, figuring out how you can create the number one resource on the internet for whatever it is your niche topic of choice is. That is definitely what I believe is really important. So for Lead Cookie we did a how to guide to LinkedIn lead generation. Huge, huge marketing piece for us. generated so many leads. It has been the biggest asset. We have tons of times where people tell us, "Yeah, I talked to competitors but you guys give your scripts away, and I read your whole approach and am amazed at it. So I'm going to hire you guys." And so that cornerstone content or the one humongous ultimate guide to that resource-   Kyle Gray: Did you write that article and then launch the business? Or did you come up with that process, or I did the article validate the process in a way?   Jake Jorgovan: I think the article came out about three to four months after we launched the business. So I had done it for myself.   Jake Jorgovan: We had done it for several customers at that point and we had some really great results. So it was refined enough by that point that I was able to actually put together something really powerful there.   Kyle Gray: And these aren't short 1,500 word articles. This is probably a 7,000 or so word article or something in that range, right?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, super in depth. And then what we did is we put a content upgrade. If you want the scripts you had to opt in and so that again helps drive a bunch of more engagement and everything as well. But that for Lead Cookie was huge and one of the biggest things that I think if you have if you're in a space where you can create something like that and again, I think the biggest mentality is you can't throw up a halfway done article. It has to be the best thing out there. Better than what anyone else has put and that's what I aim for, and it's done a phenomenal for us.   Kyle Gray: That's really cool. And with an article this, are you deciding based on a business model, based on a keyword? Are you incorporating all of these different elements into what goes into this a pillar article?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah. I had the idea of using search as kind of a guide, but ultimately it's you don't try to fit it into a search term or something. And so we have optimized it around LinkedIn. Lead generation as some key terms around there, but it's not what I wrote it for. It was this is what it's about. This is what we do and this is what we're going to teach people. And it ranks on Google and stuff. It's not always the top, but the quality of it. Where it has gotten way more traction is , "Hey, someone ..." I'll wake up to 20 leads in the morning because I want to put it in a Facebook group or dropped it on Reddit. And so the search is useful, but I focus more on making sure that it is great for whatever the topic is, and that's actually going to benefit someone who reads it.   Kyle Gray: Yeah. And so a better strategy for somebody starting out who's an expert in what they do might be to create a single definitive piece of content on what it is you do, and how you do it down to the details. And maybe a couple of months or however long it takes to develop it rather than making 12 different articles that don't quite dig as deep or really serve you as well.   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah and I think, and again, it works well if you've got that area of expertise. Another one that I did as a consulting project before Lead Cookie, which is kind of become the foundation of the agency is we had a consultant who did IT software negotiations. And so we wrote up this ultimate guide on how to negotiate with Salesforce. And again, this ranked really well. It was super valuable to his target prospects and he ended up generating over half a million dollars of business from it. And then it became the sales asset that helped him close everything else as well. So it was one article. That was all it is. One article literally generated over half a million for his business. So yeah, I definitely say that that's more or less the case and if it's not clear to you what that is yet or maybe you're still figuring out your niche. I think that's where writing shorter form articles helps you flush out your message, and figure out what it is you want to say. Because it's better to put something out than nothing. But I think if you've got that deep domain expertise, and you can really own a topic then you're better off building that one huge piece as opposed to a bunch of smaller ones.   Kyle Gray: But for most and for you and your team, creating these hugely definitive articles is no longer a one person job. Tell me a little bit about the team that you've put together and how you manage several different minds all crafting one huge article.   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah. So to be honest, I guess the LinkedIn stuff, that still has come mainly from me. I definitely pull on my team to copy edit it, and I've pulled in designers to help build put the guide together and stuff. But at this point the LinkedIn guide has pretty much come from me. When I did the Salesforce guide I interviewed the expert individual and basically built that guide from his interviews. And that's kind of what we're doing now as well with Content Allies. So I think if you're not the capable writer yourself then you can have someone interview you and get it done, but I think ultimately having it come from whoever is the most expert and they share the ideas. I think that that's the most powerful thing to get their raw ideas. I think too many minds and it can definitely create some chaos, but you may need to pull on some strengths. Whether that's writers, or designers, or marketers to actually get that all executed and actual live on the website, and everything that.   Kyle Gray: And with Lead Cookie where you're trying to recreate the same experience, or advantage that you've created for yourself with your clients. How do you keep a team all working together? So the writer is interviewing the expert, and then maybe you have graphic design or other elements informing after the fact?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, yeah. So basically the Content Allies the way we work or we structure it is we have a lead strategist for each customer. And that strategist owns the interview process with the customer, and owns kind of all the topic, brainstorming and organization. And then underneath them basically we will put in contract writers, and designers to support everything around there. So one person that kind of owns the strategy, and then I think a lot of those other pieces can be contract and you can even pull in contract writers to support. But that's at least how we've structured it on the Content Allies front.   Kyle Gray: That's cool. So it's all about having the strategy the secret sauce in house?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah. It's someone that can own that process and be the point of contact to pull that expertise out of someone's head, and that's the most important part for us.   Kyle Gray: That's really challenging to find somebody with a blend of interpersonal, creative and writing skills.   Jake Jorgovan: Yes one of the things that I guess in terms of team building them that I'm huge believer of is you got to find with the right attitude, and the right personality for these types of roles. But you're never going to hire someone that you're going to put in and they're going to be perfect. So I'm a huge believer of investing in your team. So my lead strategists, this is also on the Lead Cookie side for outbound, but I don't believe you're going to hire someone and they're going to be great. So I hire them and I coach the heck out of my team, and have one on ones with them every week. Level them up and it's not , "One-on-one accountability checking in to make you do your stuff." It's , "Let me give you mental models to think through. Let me teach you frameworks. So this is what I've learned from my experiences." So whenever I bring on team members it is not , "Do this work." It is , "I am going to be coaching you to becoming a far better professional than you are today." And that is enticing to most of the time the people that come work with me, and it does level them up and creates these super valuable team members as well.   Kyle Gray: That is really interesting and really different. It's an approach I don't hear very often but I can see the value in that. Especially in a small business, in a small elite team where you really want to get the most from everybody. Do you have a way that you can consistently come up with ideas for how to train, for how to enhance if you're doing these one-on-ones? Or maybe there's particular themes that you've been working on, are you spending time planning your coaching in advance?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, so we basically do an agenda every week with my team. So we always open it up with the question , how are you? And chatting and stuff and learning. We'll typically have some discussion points and some of those may be points that I realized over the week of working with them on coaching. So, for example, one of the lessons I was teaching, Jess, who's one of my lead strategists at Content Allies was , "Hey, you've got to walk the line of doing what the customer wants and challenging them when what we believe is best for them is not what they actually ask for." And so challenging her how to walk that line is , you know, it's a very fuzzy thing and so teaching or that is an ongoing thing. And so there's things that you recognize that the challenges that people come up with and that's a big part of it.   Jake Jorgovan: But one tactical thing I do every week is I use this question called The One Thing Question from a book called The One Thing by Gary Keller. And it's what is the one thing you can do this week such that by doing it everything else will be easier or unnecessary? So for any of my team members who are in a building mode where they're actually creating processes, or creating something new, or moving are responsible for objectives are not in an operator mode. I'll ask them this question and it's often I try to let them figure out what the answer is of , "Hey, here's the quarterly target you have. Here's where we are today. What is the one thing that's going to move you closer to that?" And they'll kind of bring up maybe that's, "I need to build this asset." Or, "I need to get this in place." Or, "I need to train so and so."   Jake Jorgovan: But using that question each week and then checking in on it the next week to make sure they actually did it. That's been a really good piece to get people out of their head and scattered, and really focused on tackling one big thing at a time.   Kyle Gray: That's powerful. Really, really good information and very simple and easy to implement into anybody's business. Jake, it's been such a pleasure exploring so many different areas of content, of team building, business building and transparency. Do you have any last thoughts to close us out with, and where can we go to learn more about you?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah, I think the biggest thing I'll say is the ultimate thing that I came back to and one of the things is your business is a reflection of yourself. So the more you can invest in yourself, your own education, you know it's there's someone that brought the metaphor of investing in yourself is literally it's compound interest in a bank account. You put in money and it's gone first, but then over time it grows and investing in yourself, and then getting your own mental space good. Your own personal routines and habits, your family life good. All of that is absolutely key to any level of growth. So that'd be one of my biggest key takeaways.   Kyle Gray: Thank you so much, Jake. And where can we go to learn more about you?   Jake Jorgovan: Yeah. The personal website is jake-jorgovan.com. That's where I do all my blogging and podcasting. And then my businesses are leadcookie.com for the done for you LinkedIn outreach. And last one is Content Allies where we turn consultants into thought leaders through content marketing.   Kyle Gray: Awesome. Jake, it's been such a pleasure having you on The Story Engine podcast. Thanks again for joining us.   Jake Jorgovan: Thanks for having me on here, Kyle.   Kyle Gray: Thanks for listening to the Story Engine Podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes and resources mentioned on this episode and every other episode at thestoryengine.co. If you're looking to learn more about how to use storytelling to grow your business, then check out my new book, Selling With Story: How to Use Storytelling to Become an Authority, Boost Sales, and Win the Hearts and Minds of Your Audience. This book will equip you with actionable strategies and templates to help you share your unique value and build trust in presentations, sales, and conversations, both online and offline. Learn more at sellingwithstory.co. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.

Podcast Show Notes with Kyle Gray & Guest Cody Burch Building a Business With Cody Burch Today on this show we have Cody Burch. Cody is a friend of mine I've known for a few years now and we've worked alongside each other in many awesome organizations. I am so excited to share his story with you on the podcast today.    We are going to go from when he set out on his own journey to build his own business and the many interesting and powerful things he's done to build it. From creating a podcast, writing his own book, and most recently hosting his own event, which was very successful and very exciting.   He's done this all very quickly by making big moves, investing in himself and really connecting with his audience. He is so vulnerable and honest in his storytelling that I think a lot of you are going to find it really inspiring and I hope it helps you take action on your dreams as well.  Keywords Podcasting, podcaster, interview, interviewer, guest, podcast guest, interviews, podcasting guest, The Story Engine, The Story Engine Podcast, Entrepreneurs, Selling with Story, business, business coach, coach, marketing   #kylegray #thestoryengine #thestoryenginepodcast #podcast #podcasts #storytelling #podcasting #influencer #listening #news #show #business #Businessman #Businessowner #businessowners #businesscoach #businesslife #businesstips #businessminded #entrepreneurs #sellingwithstory #marketing #entrepreneur Key Takeaways Cody's Transformational Journey from Techy to Entrepreneur Creating A Podcast That Is Truly Authentic The Struggles Of Producing And Selling Live Events Invest In Relationships Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode Alyson Caffrey Podcast Episode Cody Builds a Business Podcast Onehourfunnel.com Facebook Instagram Transcript Kyle Gray: My name is Kyle Gray and today on this show we have Cody Burch. Cody is a friend of mine I've known for a few years now and we've worked alongside each other in many awesome organizations. I am so excited to share his story with you on the podcast today. We are going to go from when he set out on his own journey to build his own business and the many interesting and powerful things he's done to build it. From creating a podcast, writing his own book, and most recently hosting his own event, which was very successful and very exciting.   Kyle Gray: He's done this all very quickly by making big moves, investing in himself and really connecting with his audience. He is so vulnerable and honest in his storytelling that I think a lot of you are going to find it really inspiring and I hope it helps you take action on your dreams as well. Without any further ado, let's turn it over to Cody. Cody Burch, welcome to The Story Engine Podcast. It's so exciting to have you on the show today.   Cody Burch: Hey. What's up, Kyle. Thank you for having me. I'm really pumped to keep going.   Kyle Gray: You have an incredible story that I really want to explore about the past year of your life and a lot of the things we've created. Before we dive into that, I want to ask you the question I ask all of my guests at the opening, tell me about a moment in your life that has defined you and really helped you become who you are today, serve who you serve and doing, and how do you do what you're doing.   Cody Burch: I've always identified as a tech guy, that was the role I fit in the last company I was at. The last company I was at, I was there for 10 years and I was just a tech guy. I learned all the technology, I use all the technology. When we would go to events, I would just hover in the corner and learn what we needed to learn. I didn't ever need to meet anybody. I wasn't very social. I didn't see any value in relationships or being out in the front. I was there to learn, learn the technology, learn how to implement it for ourselves and for our clients and that was just how I saw the world. I remember when I was getting the itch of entrepreneurship in the fall of 2016, it became very apparent I needed to transition out of that job I'd been at for 10 years which was a very difficult mourning and grieving process. The last part of that story was I had annual review to wrap up how that year had gone and it was a breakfast meeting that turned into a lunch meeting.   Cody Burch: We were just there all morning. It wasn't going well so just imagine an awkward meeting of being very apparent that it wasn't going to work out much longer. As that meeting wrapped up, we went outside to say our goodbyes and it was December, it was right before our Christmas party, right before the holiday break. I remember my former employer, he said, "Hey, if you ever want a recommendation, I can put in a good word for you." He didn't mean it in any bad way. He meant it in a helpful way, I really believe that but in my head I heard, "Hey, if you want to just be another tech guy for somebody else, I can put in a word for you and I'll get you another tech guy job, another right hand person tech implementer tech job." I really used that as fuel to fuel me to say, he doesn't even see it. I want to be an entrepreneur. I want to start my own business. I want to solve my own problems, I want to serve people on my terms. It was in that moment where I really felt a shift in my identity like how I saw myself, if that makes sense.   Cody Burch: Since then I've always identified as an underdog. I've got this sign behind my head temporarily, I'm probably going to take it down eventually, but it says, prove them wrong. It's just how I've manufactured a lot of the stuff I think we'll chat about today of that motivation of how to move forward in the world and solve interesting problems over and over again and not give up and keep going ahead. I think that was the real moment that really changed everything for me.   Kyle Gray: I think that's incredible. I was going to ask about this sign because if you're watching on YouTube or have ever seen any of the content Cody makes, it catches your eye right away. I've always wondered what the motivation behind that was. It's definitely part of your message. Since then it's been so cool seeing everything developed because I remember working alongside of you in one company and seeing how you've just established yourself since then, since you've gone out and really created your own path. It's been amazing to see what you've been doing. You've been doing great social media posts. I see a lot of your presence just even on Facebook and things like that. Creating your own show, your own podcast, creating your own book. Most recently, having an event which was just two weeks ago, if I remember right. I'd love to hear and go through this process with you and explore this journey.   Kyle Gray: From first setting out on your own and really deciding and perhaps buying the prove them wrong sign, to where you are today because I think you've made a lot of great progress and you've come forward and really establishing yourself as an authority of something much more valuable than just another tech guy. First, I'd love to hear what were some of the first moves? How did you set the foundation for this new direction and this new journey you are going to take?   Cody Burch: A great story framework I heard is once upon a time, and then suddenly, and then luckily, and then happily ever after, right? Once upon a time, suddenly this thing happened but luckily this silver lining appeared and then happily ever after. Once upon a time I was a tech guy for this company and then suddenly found myself unhappy and wanting to be entrepreneurial. Then luckily I had a skillset to serve other people. I was really good at Facebook ads. I was really good at lead generation. I was really good at online marketing. Then that's how I got started. I took that skill set I had to the world and just basically hung my sign out on the street and said, hey, I'm open for business. You may have known, I do online marketing for this one company for this subset of people, but now I do that for anybody. Anybody who needs any help, let me know. Now, quite frankly, when I got started, I did anything and everything I could that would pay anything. I built membership sites.   Cody Burch: I built WordPress sites. I did some graphic design. I did some blog posts. I did some content marketing. I did some email marketing. Quite frankly, I'm pretty good at a lot of those things. I'm not really good. I'm pretty good. The number in my head was I had to make 7,000 bucks a month. That was the math of how I could not be so disruptive financially to my family because I was the main breadwinner of our family. I didn't have any money saved. I didn't have any old, dead, rich uncle that left me an inheritance. I just had to figure this out and had to make money for my wife and kids. That first month I made just over 7,000 bucks and then thought, well that looks like that's going to work and what if I could get to 10,000 bucks, that's just this arbitrary entrepreneurial number that we hit. Then I did that soon after as well, but it was through number one, saying yes to everything. That was something I thought was a necessary part of my journey that I wanted to churn through as fast as possible. There's no way to sustain a business when you do everything.   Kyle Gray: You gotta get out of there fast. It will drive you crazy. I've been there too.   Cody Burch: I just wanted to keep it super short and get through that. Within a few months I was just doing Facebook ads, just doing sales funnels, and I was still doing email. That was the three-pronged approach, that's just the worldview I had. If you want to sell something online, you need an ad to send traffic to a funnel and then you need to follow up with an email. The email stuff, it didn't bring me a ton of joy and I stopped doing that pretty quickly. By about six months in, again, I wanted to go as fast as possible. When I would think through those first six months, it sounds like it was years like that wasn't year two, that was month two. I just went as fast as possible and I did some stuff for free and then I raised my prices. I think my first ads client was nothing. Second ads client, I charged 200 bucks. Third ads client, I charged 500. Fourth ads client, I charged a thousand. Fifth ads client, I charged 2000. Then I haven't raised my prices much from there, but that was all within six months of launching. That was that first evolution of take this problem I saw in the world of helping people get more leads and make more sales using the power of online marketing and then doing it for them.   Kyle Gray: Tell me what about one of the skills that when starting out you had a good basic skill set to get you going. What was one of the skills that you were critically deficient in that you needed to build up fast to succeed?   Cody Burch: The sales part was tough for me. I had never sold in the past. I had never needed to sell or whatever you want to call it, enroll new clients or position myself as an authority that was worth being paid what I was asking for. That was something I had to figure out really quickly, which also was accompanied by having no clue really how to run any kind of books, bookkeeping or accounting or invoicing. Again, within month five or six I hit a turning point, a hockey stick on the growth chart and I was forgetting to send invoices. I was forgetting to bill clients. Having so much fun doing the thing because I think that's how we all are, we're craftsmen in those ways. I was forgetting the nuances of the business, like, oh, they never even signed their agreement but I already went ahead and get started or they didn't even pay their second half of their invoice and it was due 60 days ago.   Kyle Gray: That was pretty nice, you're in a good spot if you're having so much fun, you're forgetting to bill. I mean, it's better if you're billing but that's a good place where I think it's something that a lot of people would love to be and you're in so much of a groove and you're in your zone of genius. Things like that can pass you by. Again, good to build that skill up too.   Cody Burch: I got better at it and then I hired it out. I mean, I brought on my first position I hired was an ops manager and she's still with me to this day and she's fundamentally changed my business and allowed me to experience some of the growth I've had as well.   Kyle Gray: Is that Alyson by chance? Because she's been on the podcast.   Cody Burch: Yeah, she's a genius. Everybody, Alyson Caffrey is a genius.   Kyle Gray: Yeah, she's the best. I try not to tell people about her because every time I do, they hire her, try to get away from me, so don't hire her. Leave a spot for me soon, I need her next. Yeah, but she's a genius.   Cody Burch: She's so great. Maybe this is a fun transition point, like getting that part of my business figured out. I don't know about you Kyle, but business got easier for me and then I decided to mess it up with some of the other things you talked about with books and podcasts and live events. We can talk about that next if you want.   Kyle Gray: Yes, yes. That is the next thing I want to talk about, out of bookkeeping and into book writing. Tell me about the One Hour Funnel book.   Cody Burch: Here's how that came about. I had the idea for this notion of a one hour funnel in August of that first year. I jumped in January. My first day on the job was February on my own for the first time ever. In August, I registered the domain name and filed for the trademark for this idea of a one hour funnel. In my head it was just a quick way to launch marketing funnels that's just what I'm about. I'm an engineer, I'm a tech guy, I'm an efficiency guy. I just wanted to do this quickly. In my business I thought the more I can systemize how I fulfill on these sales funnels, the more profit I'll have, the more predictable results I can get for clients. I was taking what worked with winning campaigns and separating it out from what didn't work with campaigns that I was launching that weren't working. Finding out what the commonalities and made a little roadmap and then put in mind like, well this would be a really cool book or would be a cool podcast. I didn't know what it could be but I was like, this could be something. Another mutual friend of ours, Chandler Bolt, has a course called Self-Publishing School. I bought that like first thing. I jumped in February, I think I bought that course in March or whenever it was open in 2017. It was about how to self-publish a book.   Cody Burch: Now, full disclosure, I didn't really ever log in. I didn't really look at it. I kinda did but then I got busy and in my head I was like, I know I want to write a book. I know I want to write a book. I know I want to write a book. Knowing Chandler, it'll never be this price again. It's going to get more expensive along the way. Right? I bought that course and then didn't do much with it. That was 2017 and then in 2018 I launched a beta group. What I did first was I launched my own course. I made The One Hour Funnel a course and it launched to tens of people with accumulative yawn like the market didn't really care. They didn't know who I was. That was going to hit me too like it would serve me to be better known and to stop being behind the boards in my home office and still identifying as a tech guy and get out in front more. What I did is when that webinar launched to sell my course, The One Hour Funnel course, I decided to start a podcast to document the whole journey.   Cody Burch: I had no followers on YouTube, no followers on Instagram or Facebook. I had no Facebook group, I had no email list. I had literally nothing, zeros across the board. I had dozens of agency clients in my email list, which was just in Gmail. I didn't have CRM or anything. Episode one is, hey, what's up? I'm Cody and I'm going to document this process. Then podcast is called, Cody Builds a Business, and it's documenting that journey. In the opening credits it says going from literally nothing and nobody to a million dollar business. Now at the time of this recording, I think I'm about $924,000 away from hitting that million dollar mark but we're getting there. We're on our way. Here's what I thought would happen. I was so brilliant. Launched a podcast, it'll be new and noteworthy on Monday. The world will love it. I'll host the webinar on Thursday. All of the people on the show will, of course, they'll sign up for the webinar, then they'll buy my course and I'll need to decide do I want a vacation in Lake Tahoe or vacation in Aspen like, what do I do now?   Kyle Gray: On Sunday, right?   Cody Burch: Right, on Sunday. Exactly. That of course didn't happen. Episode two is, I'm doing a webinar. Episode three is, well, that didn't work. Episode four is, well, what do we do now? Episode five is, Cody is depressed. Episode six is, Cody picks himself up off the floor. It's so great to document that. For those listening, number one, you'll listen to the episodes because they're useful and they're funny and helpful. Number two, document your journey however that is most comfortable for you like a podcast like this with Kyle, like a YouTube channel, like a blog or whatever that is. Now I can look back at that and see what I've done and where I've come from and what I've learned and how I've grown. The course came with the podcast, it was both dropped at the same time. Then the turning point there for me too was I got on the phone with a guy named Dean Jackson, he's a marketing guy. He said, you should write a book like the course would be a great book. That's one of the lenses through which Dean sees the world is he helps people write books and I was like, no, I don't want to write. I mean, I do, but I don't, it sounds so hard like it would take forever.   Cody Burch: I want it to be a book that my grandkids' grandkids' grandkids will remember. That's a lot of pressure and I'm just not ready. He's like, no, no, no. Write a short book. Write a book that will help your desired customers raise their hand and say, I need some help. That was in June. The course launched in April, podcast launched in April, book writing process was in June almost exactly a year ago. Then the book ended up dropping in August.   Kyle Gray: One of the things that I love about the podcast and the book that I think a lot of people listening in can really find to be much more manageable and much more applicable to their lives is I do love how it's really short. It's a very crisp book that focuses on a single problem. Actually, my new book, Selling with Story, I wanted to create something like that and I failed.    Cody Burch: Got it.   Kyle Gray: It's a much bigger book and I wanted, but I really set out and I was like, it's going to be crisp. Nice. I liked that and I think it's a really useful focused tool. I also appreciate just the short and whimsical consumable nature of your podcast as well. I think it's made it easy for you to create ideas and synthesize ideas and just look around and see, oh yeah, this is something going on in my life. I'd love for you to share this. I think we talked about this on your show, but you were watching your kids play basketball and that turned into an idea. Tell me about just a couple of the little inspirations for many episodes and how you turn that into content or some of the most successful ones because I think this format is really good. It's really personal and it's very easy to achieve.   Cody Burch: Yeah, for sure. One thing I noticed, what I thought my podcast would be in the beginning was me documenting the journey. It was like, and I'm joking, it wasn't really, but it's like Facebook in '08 where it's like, hey, I had some eggs. The world is like, well I don't care. I was documenting in a way, like I had a podcast interview today and then I did this, I did that, did this, did that, and then I thought, well that's going to run its course. People ultimately probably don't care. They're not that voyeuristic about what I did at the gym that day. I exaggerated a bit to prove a point. Then I started to document what I was learning and then I would go on trips and then people like that because I would go to $10,000 masterminds and my fans will be like, what was it like? Who else was there? What did you learn? What were your top takeaways? Well, that's cool because I just take it for granted that people don't do that. I don't do it a bunch but I was able to go to some conferences, not all of them are 10k obviously, I couldn't afford that.   Cody Burch: Some of them were and they were interesting and I met cool people and did cool things and got to bring back the top learnings from those episodes. There was still something where I was trying to put on a front in a way of a persona of what I thought a good podcast host should sound like. Then that lasted until about episode 96 when I think it's 96 where I recorded an episode called Hitting Rock Bottom. That was in January of this year I think when that episode dropped. That instantly became my most shared, commented, downloaded episode. It was about the story I opened up with on here, like just me transitioning out of that job for so long and what that was like and the fear I faced and the uncertainty and then the malaise that I went through. Just all of this stuff. I just told the full story in a respectful, historian way. Then people loved that. Then my second biggest download episode was me talking to my wife. We were just, I don't know, you know, my wife, we just have a good chemistry.   Cody Burch: She's very funny and charming and it was just amazing so people love that too. Then I thought, well, people sure love this part more than my observations about whatever I saw at baggage claim at the airport, like a comedian or something. Right? I was just like make an observation and talk about it. I try to make sure those episodes are in there, those vulnerable moments. It gives me a place too where it's, for the most part, it's just me. It's just me in my home office and a microphone and I can just open up and it's therapeutic for me to do that as well. Then the other thing that I noticed along the way, like you mentioned, is just the observations I would have like when I'm at the airport or the person at Starbucks gets your name wrong or somebody steals your parking spot or the kid on the basketball team shoots into his own goal or whatever, right? You're like, well, what's that like? How does that show up in business and what can we learn from that?   Cody Burch: Man, I'm a huge fan of regularly documenting your observations in the world to help other people, to serve other people through your experiences. My show is a mix of those things. It's my observations, it's my vulnerable moments. It's my most afraid moments and most proud moments. My podcasts this last week after my live event, I was like, I'm going to own it. I'm super proud of myself. I think we don't acknowledge that enough in this world. It's more fun to differ. It's not me, it's God. It's not me or it's my team. It's not me, it was the hotel or it was the AB team like no, it was all of those things. Yes, it was God and yes, it was my team and yes it was, but like I'm going to own it. I did a really good job and I'm really proud of myself. That was my episode last Wednesday, and that got good feedback. People are like, dude, good for you like I'm rooting for you and I'm following your journey here. Sounds like you just crushed it and let's be happy for a minute and not be melancholy about what you're concerned about or whatever. Super fun. Everybody should do a podcast in my opinion.   Kyle Gray: I love that. That's another thing that I've really enjoyed about what you're doing in your show is you're able to and yeah, I don't think enough people do that where there's this hype, I'm so cool kind of marketing. I think a lot of us are afraid to become like that, but sometimes it's good to celebrate and share and be happy. I think that more of the sharing that authentically is good. I also think you do a great job at just having calls to action and really moving people forward. Oftentimes you're saying, I know in the episodes leading up to the event, you reach out and you say, hey, I want you to come to this event. I want you to check out this book. You're standing behind what you're doing and you're really proud of it and it comes through in the episode. One of the next questions I want to ask, this is one of my favorites I've been asking recently. On this journey, you've made a lot of investments. You said you made $10,000 events and things like that. Tell me about the investment that you made that you were really feeling it in the pit of your stomach. Like, oh no, and it was a scary move to do. You're like, I'm not even sure if I should tell my wife about this one, maybe. You made it and it was a risk and it paid off huge.   Cody Burch: I mean, that was one of them. I don't know, there's an organization called Mastermind Talks. I remember I was talking to a friend of mine, Nicholas Kusmich when I was starting to get a lot of momentum at year one in the business. We were having dinner and I said, hey, where do people like you hang out? Like, I want to help more influencer, thought leader, guru, course creator, expert businesses with their ads and marketing. He said, well, I go to Mastermind Talks. I was like, great, got that down. What else? He's like, that's the only one. That's all you need to know about. I was like, wow, okay, cool. What is that? He told me and I said, how do you get in? He's like, well you can't, it's really hard and you have to know somebody and it's super expensive and how much does it cost? 10,000 bucks and you have to get recommended. It's like a secret society, right? I did some research on it and then in 2018 I applied to be in it and according to their website, they have a tougher acceptance rate than Harvard.   Cody Burch: There's a 15,000 person waiting list and it's a 150 person event that's run once a year, not 151 people and not five times a year. It's 150 people once a year. The odds just are horrible. I applied to get in and I asked Nicholas and a couple other people and say, hey, you think I would be a good fit for this community? Could you put in a good word with the organizers and all that stuff? In March of 2018 I got accepted and as we all know now it's 10,000 bucks. I didn't have 10,000 bucks for sure. It was just a dip in the business where I was like, I don't have that. It's one of those where it's like 10k today or 16k in payments or something like that. Interest doesn't make sense at all. I got to find 10 grand on a credit card or somewhere, sell something or something to get the money. That was something that was probably the scariest or the riskiest investment. By then I knew my business. Here's my big risk, Kyle, is I'm not super comfortable in crowds. To walk into a room of 150 successful entrepreneurs, I knew I wouldn't just start crushing it and high fiving people, making a bunch of good friends.   Cody Burch: I also didn't want to put so much pressure on myself to ROI my 10,000 and be that guy. You know what I mean? I don't want to be that guy at the event trying to close deals in the bathroom and close deals in the hallway. I just wanted to be just fully present, no expectations, serve where I could serve, contribute where I can contribute, go on. They had social events like a great hike and the hikes were super social because you go for a walk for an hour with other entrepreneurs and you can just talk and make great connections on those hikes. That definitely paid off. Super cool community, tons of interesting people that helped me. I think the biggest takeaway from something like that is just the level that some of those people play on made me think bigger. It could be an income goal or impact goal. Like I want to get a thousand leads this year and they're like, what if I could help people get a million leads? What if I could try to change the world of online marketing with this skill set that I have and just dream bigger, like what's my moonshot?   Cody Burch: These people are doing such interesting things. One guy there was like legalizing cannabis in Canada or something. That's such a big mission, whether you're for or against it are not so relevant, but like that undertaking is enormous. What a cool mission. Here I am trying to get a couple of leads on Facebook. It was like, I got to dream bigger and play bigger. That's the one that comes to mind.       Kyle Gray: Absolutely. It's a big risk. Time and time again when I make investments like that, that scare me, it gets you into that mindset because it's something that forces you out of your comfort zone and now you're like, okay, it is time to play bigger. It's time to make this work and it's time to make this count. I'm certain that that part of this inspiration and part of what you are doing and part of the world that you've been surrounded and then placed yourself led to your event. We know that it's been a big success, but I'd like to hear a little bit about the planning and the purpose and the setup and the promotion of this event because I was expecting either that or you talking about your event as this big investment. Tell me about the lead up to this event and how you made it into this big success for you.   Cody Burch: The event was the hardest thing I've ever done. I have never been more stressed. I'm trying to think as an entrepreneur like we get, I don't know about you, but you get comfortable. I figured out how to make a decent income running ads and marketing and that was pretty easy. Then I was like, well, I'll mess this up. I'll go write a book that's going to be hard or I'll mess this up now I'll do a podcast or whatever. For me, I was like, I'll just throw a huge wrench in this whole machine and I'm going to do a live event. I thought it would be hard. I had done it once before at that last company and it was so hard, but I thought, I'm a good marketer, people know me now. Podcast had been around for a year. I've got lots of interesting friends. It's in Denver, it's going to be affordable. The ticket prices are going to be a couple hundred bucks. I'll probably sell it out instantly. It was so hard. The first, like the 12 disciples, we all have those 12 disciples, right?   Cody Burch: The 12 disciples bought instantly. Like Cody, I believe in you and I'm in, they paid full price, they told their friends. That was like probably four months out and then I didn't sell any tickets for months and I was super stressed. There were more than one night of just tears. I remember one night I went upstairs, I worked from home in the basement and then told my wife, I said, I feel like a fraud. Then I just burst into tears because for me I'm a good marketer, I know how to get leads and make sales for myself and for clients. I was like, here I am putting on a marketing event and I have no clue how to market it like I was trying everything and but nothing was working. It felt so good to say that out loud, I feel like an impostor. Then to notice, just to deal with that emotion like let that come out. She hugged me and she's like, you got this. Because she didn't know I'd been putting up a front too for her, trying to be strong and tough. I got it, no big deal like we're going to crush it.   Cody Burch: In my head I had a ton of fear and uncertainty because when you do an event, we were on the hook for something like 30,000 bucks was the financial investment and it comes in stages. We paid a $5,000 deposit for the hotel to reserve the room and reserve the food and then had to get the AV guy there. Then we had to get a room block that we guaranteed. That was my most stressful day is when you do an event, you tell the hotel how many people, how many rooms you're going to sell. The day that that bill came due, I found out that none of my attendees were staying at the hotel so that's all on me. That was a low day for me. A friend of mine reached out, how are you doing? I said, I'm doing horrible. I'm having a really awful day because this thing is happening to me and it's going to cost me thousands of dollars and I just messed up and I feel stupid and I feel blah, blah blah. If any of your listeners think I just crushed it all the time, every day. Every day was roses and I sold it out instantly. It was so, so, so hard to fill it.   Kyle Gray: Every detail of that, like a can of Sprite at an event at a hotel costs $6 or something like that. Down to the, you just think like, I mean I've been to events and people go to these things all the time and you'll see a water bottle or a little snack pack or something, that's like crazy amounts of money. You'd never pay that much for a can of soda normally, but people just grab them, they're free and they're like, oh yeah, let's just drink. When you see somebody just at the soda bar putting an extra Dr. Pepper in their backpack for the road, you're like, oh my God.   Cody Burch: There was that, there's that for sure. Promotion wise, I did a free plus shipping book funnel, so buy my book and on the thank you page it was like, "Hey, you got the book now. This comes with a ticket to the event. Here's how to redeem your free ticket," which I would do like a seat deposit, that got zero sales. That didn't work. I did an opt-in funnel, I think it was a free download of the book and the thank you page with same thing like, "Hey, this book is amazing and there's a live experience happening soon since you downloaded the book. It's clear you have this problem. Here's how to redeem your free ticket." That got zero sales. I tried discounted tickets like $97 tickets, that got one or two sales. I did a five day challenge, which I loved, where it was a lead generation challenge. At the end of the challenge I did a webinar about this general concept of online marketing. I sold the course and I sold an event ticket and that got five tickets sold I think.   Cody Burch: In hindsight, that was the biggest bang for my buck of getting multiple ticket sales with one promotion. I did a thing called a live stream, which was a three hour training and it was a QVC infomercial, teach for a bit, have a testimonial, make an invitation to the event. That got zero sales but that I had to hire a camera crew in a studio space to film that. What works in hindsight was chats like this, was interviews with friends and people on my podcast and people on their podcasts and lots of Zoom calls and lots of phone calls and lots of direct messages and lots of Facebook groups support, lots of giving. We were talking before we hit record how you and I support different online communities. Just giving, giving, giving, giving, giving was helpful. I had enough goodwill that when I would make that invitation saying, "Hey, it's clear you have this problem, you need to get this part of your life figured out." That worked. They were just one off.   Cody Burch: Most days I was striking out, and if I got lucky I would hit a single, but I never hit a home run and never hit a grand slam. I never spoke from stage and closed 20 tickets, it never happened for me. That wasn't my reality. Filling it was super duper hard and I'm happy to talk about anything else around that feeling inside, but the execution and I knew, and you knew, everybody knew that Cody and my wife, Christy and Alyson on our team who we've already said was amazing, would pull off the best event anybody's ever seen, which we did. Then I introduce a new flagship program that people join there as well, which was super fun. That's why I've seen it as a success now. In hindsight, it was super hard. We maxed out. I've said this a few times and I maxed out, I have two credit cards, two business credit cards, we maxed them both out. I got home from the event. I had missed three payments of other stuff. They're like, "Hey, we billed the card on file that was maxed out."   Cody Burch: I was like, yeah, I know, like, sorry. Now I'm picking up the pieces of that. I just want to tell you and your listeners like, I put it all on the line financially, not that I would have been bankrupt or lost my house or had to foreclose on things. I don't want to over dramatize that, but I just can't overstate how much I felt like I had at stake to execute this live event. If that encourages anybody to say, "Well, I'm going to go for it just like Cody went for it," then kudos to you.   Kyle Gray: Cody, I really, really appreciate just the vulnerability and openness in this. I think a lot of listeners can find and take courage that there's a lot of people out there like I was saying earlier that are just hype marketing, I'm so cool, I'm so amazing. What really comes down to it and what I'm hearing and despite the digital marketing and even being a master at Facebook ads and all of these things, what it really came down to was making human connections. Getting in the right room with the right people, getting on the phone with the right people, giving, giving, giving and contributing however you can. There's no shortcuts, there's no easy, easy ways to your gold plated helicopters or anything like that. I so appreciate your openness and your vulnerability in this journey. I think everybody listening will to. I'd love to, and it just comes down to true human connections. The means and the tech and the methods are all, you know, some work for some people, some don't. In the end, it's how you connect with people. I'd love to hear any closing thoughts and where can we go to learn more about you and connect with you further.   Cody Burch: Thanks for saying that, man. My closing takeaway is the old adage of dig your well before you're thirsty. For me, in hindsight, for hosting a live event and this is true for anything, replace live event with, you have a book that's coming out that you want to launch or you have a virtual summit you're going to do, or you have a workshop you're going to introduce, or you have a new flagship service or product. I told you at the beginning of the interview here, I don't consider myself a very social person. I'm not a social butterfly. I'd go into a room of a hundred strangers and leave with a hundred strangers. I wouldn't leave with 20 best friends. Just never been that guy but I wish I had been. My advice to people listening is knowing that at some point you're going to need to rely on people to help support whatever your dream and your vision is that you're working on.   [social quote]I dug a small well and then I got very thirsty. That's my advice to anybody is to invest in those relationships now before you need them. You can't err on the side of being too generous and you can't do it on the side of being too convenient and all those amazing things and generate as much goodwill as possible. Cody Burch: Again, a book, podcast, product, whatever it is, to take the time now to start to make those connections and to give and to connect with people and to see what they're working on and to stay in touch and never ask. Just give, give, give, until you're ready at whatever point in a year or two or five years to say, hey, it happened. I wanted to let you know that I did finally read that book and I would love your support, a rating, a review, a download, a launch team or whatever. People say, I would love nothing more than that. You've been giving to me for five years now, or for five months. I would love to do that. I dug a small well and then I got very thirsty. That's my advice to anybody is to invest in those relationships now before you need them. You can't err on the side of being too generous and you can't do it on the side of being too convenient and all those amazing things and generate as much goodwill as possible.   Kyle Gray: Where can we go to learn more about you?   Cody Burch: That's right, the second thing, I'm just kidding, man. I'm not ready to ask yet. The best place to go learn about what I'm working on all around The One Hour Funnel idea is at onehourfunnel.com. You can grab a copy of the book there for free. The book that started it all, the book that started an event that started a movement. It's just super fun to have done that, so that's the main hub and I'm @onehourfunnel on Facebook and on Instagram as well.   Kyle Gray: Cody, this has been a stunning conversation and I really appreciate everything you've shared. Thank you so much for joining us today on The Story Engine Podcast.   Cody Burch: Thanks for having me.   Kyle Gray: Thanks for listening to the Story Engine Podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes and resources mentioned on this episode and every other episode at thestoryengine.co. If you're looking to learn more about how to use storytelling to grow your business, then check out my new book, Selling With Story: How to Use Storytelling to Become an Authority, Boost Sales, and Win the Hearts and Minds of Your Audience. This book will equip you with actionable strategies and templates to help you share your unique value and build trust in presentations, sales, and conversations, both online and offline. Learn more at sellingwithstory.co. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.

John speaks with Kyle Gray, founder of The Story Engine, about what works (and what doesn't) when you're crafting a story about your brand.

A Guide to Content Strategy and Brand Storytelling written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing Marketing Podcast with Kyle Gray Podcast Transcript My guest for this week’s episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is Kyle Gray, founder of The Story Engine. He and I discuss insights from his book, The Story Engine: A Busy Entrepreneur’s Guide to Content Strategy and Brand Storytelling Without Spending All Day Writing. Gray has […]

I was introduced to Kyle from my friend Tom Morkes (who I need to get on the podcast still, he's brilliant at what he does and is a stellar connector) and responded like a little kid with who was just given a new puppy! Because my happy place is content and content creation, I was thrilled to get to talk to Kyle who has a brilliant book and was also partly responsible for growing WP Curve with their content strategy (he took over for Dan Norris when Dan got too busy). The more I dig into "all things content" the more my through processes shift. On one hand, I know there is a ton of value in creating a solid strategy for growing your business with content. On the flip side of that, there's also a ton of value in simply documenting and sharing. No strategy, just creating based on what you're doing and sharing. This is why I was so excited to talk to Kyle. I felt like I got to go behind-the-scenes with a master. Kyle is the author of the amazing book, The Story Engine and founder of ConversionCake. Questions I Asked Kyle Can you share your story of how you ended up with your online business and an author and expert on content marketing? How did you get the job as the content manager for WP Curve? Can you share the results from your content strategy for WP Curve? Let's talk about The Story Engine. I love that you divided the book into 4 parts and then gave different approaches on how to use the book. Can you share what those 4 parts are? Why do you think so many people struggle with creating content? If you could recommend someone to ONE thing today for their content strategy what would that be? I know you don't have a crystal ball, but where do you see things heading in terms of content? What channels & mediums would you recommend people pay attention to? What You're Going to Learn How he created a system around creating more content for WP Curve when he brought on additional writers Examples of what they included in their style guide How focusing only on the data can hurt your content strategy What the invisible value of content is Why you shouldn't work on content one idea at a time Start with the core problem of your audience (and how to find it) Why you should get on the phone with your best customers Where to Connect with Kyle Website | Twitter | Book

Developing a Follow-Doc or Hybrid with some great characters or attachments? (And of course, you know what those words mean because you've checked out the great 8, right?) Better figure out your Story Engine — ASAP! What Is a Story Engine? Today's episode shows you how to identify and use a story engine, using practical ... Read more The post What is a Story Engine? Why Do You Need One? appeared first on Producing Unscripted.