Podcasts about castle howard

Welcome to the 'Bakery Bears Radio Show' Episode 117 We are so excited to return with a very special episode of the show! You may have seen our 'Winter Walk's' series which we debuted on the 13th of December in our 'Christmas Special' video show. This was a cross over show with our 'Radio Show'. When the cameras stopped rolling the mic's stayed on so join Dan and Kay for a very special walk in the Howardian Hills. Join Kay & Dan as they: Set out from the historic village of Coneysthorpe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coneysthorpe  Walk along the old roadway used by the staff of Castle Howard in the early 19th century Discuss their favourite festive music, food and movies  Visit Castle Howard Gardens and take a walk around the Walled Garden Mentions our ‘Christmas at York Minster' from our ‘New Adventures' series which you can watch here https://www.patreon.com/posts/32394172 Mentions ‘The Bakery Bears Advent Calendar 2024' Day 6 which you can watch here https://www.patreon.com/posts/day-6-bakery-116515653  Mention 'Kays Handmade Christmas' https://www.patreon.com/posts/kays-handmade-2-59321395  We'll see you on the 23rd January with our next Radio Show! You can find past episodes of the Radio Show here: On Podbean : https://bakerybearsradioshow.podbean.com On Apple Podcasts : https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-bakery-bears-radio-show/id1474815454

In this episode, recorded on stage at the Good Food Show, Samuel Goldsmith chats with James Martin who takes us back to his early days, when he started out as a pot washer at Castle Howard, working alongside his dad and it's here that his love for food first ignited. They delve into the importance of understanding where our food comes from and how crucial it is to respect the process, especially in a time when so many of us take it for granted. And, of course, we couldn't skip over some of James's most memorable moments in the kitchen, including a hilarious story about 846 apple tarts gone wrong. Get your tickets for the Good Food Show Winter now at https://www.goodfoodshow.com/good-food-show-winter-landing-page-ppc/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj4K5BhDYARIsAD1Ly2qzqkSw24f1zxRWJxDrNR_tmj9C9QGMS3Vdx25X1VVtIbBrP49NzDkaAoLPEALw_wcB Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do Alnwick Castle, Chatsworth House, Blenheim Palace, Castle Howard, Muncaster Castle and over 1400 other places across the UK have in common? They are all part of Historic Houses, an organisation that for over 50 years has been a voice for independent heritage.To find out more, we spoke to Historic Houses' Policy & Education Manager, Sarah Roller. Sarah explains the history of the organisation, what they do, and what makes all these great places so special - whether they are well-known or a hidden gem. She also tells us about her own fascinating role and background in history, and there are quite a few mentions of the importance of a good historic house slice of cake!If you would like to become a Historic Houses member and get, among other things, free entry to hundreds of houses, castles, and gardens - including Alnwick Castle! - visit historichouses.org .And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating or review, share with your friends (perhaps over cake), and subscribe so you don't miss any future podcasts!

With farm tenant and landlord relationships in the spotlight in recent months, the Farmers Guardian podcast spoke to the CLA, a tenant and landlord from the Castle Howard Estate and the Scottish Tenant Farming Commissioner Dr Bob McIntosh.Positive, collaborative tenant-landlord relationships and collaboration will provide benefits to both parties with Castle Howard tenant Michael Fargher highlighting the good long-term relationship help with his landlord.Jasper Hasell, estate chief executive said the estate also benefitted from that closer relationship which helped them run other parts of the business alongside the farms.Judicaelle Hammond, director of policy and advice at the CLA, said it was beneficial to see positive relationships as often the relationships are in the spotlight when things go wrong while Dr Bob McIntosh spoke about his role in promoting and encouraging good relations between landlords and tenants.Message us

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Oz Austwick.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 19th June 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: Skipton Town Hall https://skiptontownhall.co.uk/accessibility/Noor & Katu https://noorandkatu.com/Survey mentioned by Paul:  https://www.euansguide.com/media/0uyju30y/final-23-euansguide-results-pdf.pdfKids in Museums Open Letter:  https://kidsinmuseums.org.uk/2024/05/dear-change-makers-an-open-letter-from-the-kids-in-museums-youth-panel/Rubber Cheese 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey - https://rubbercheese.com/survey/ https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/thatmarketingbloke/ Oz Austwick is the Head of Commercial at Rubber Cheese, he has a somewhat varied job history having worked as a Blacksmith, a Nurse, a Videographer, and Henry VIII's personal man at arms. Outside of work he's a YouTuber, a martial artist, and a musician, and is usually found wandering round a ruined castle with his kids. Transcription:  Oz Austwick: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Oz Austwick. It's been a busy few weeks in the visitor attraction industry and the world at large. So in today's episode we're going to take some time to talk about what's happening, including the recent M+H Show, the upcoming election, the Family Friendly Museum Awards, and of course, the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey. Oz Austwick: So, Paul, where have you been recently? Paul Marden: So as we are recording, it is currently half term week, a little bit of a damp half term week, which is a bit of a shame when you're in mid May, but went to Longleat at the weekend and went specifically to go and see their Steve Backshall live event, which is happening at the moment. So for those of you that don't have kids watching CBBC at the moment, Steve Backshall does the deadly 60 telly programme, which is kind of animals and nature on CBBC. And Steve brought out some of the best animals on his event at Longleat. So it was really cool. We got to see some. We saw an armadillo, we saw massive, great python and a wolf. He brought a wolf out on stage, which was pretty awesome. Oz Austwick: Oh, wow. Paul Marden: Yeah, that was cool. So there was lots of oohing and ahring and everybody enjoyed it. Lots of fun, even though it was absolutely gushing down with rain whilst we were there on Monday. So we didn't. Typical english style. We did not let the weather get in the way of a good day. What about you? Where have you been recently, Oz? Oz Austwick: We had our bank holiday day out on Sunday, not on Monday. So we had amazing weather. We threw all the kids in the car and drove down to Dorset to Swanage, where I used to spend my childhood holidays. And the place that went was Swanage Pier. I love it there. I spent my childhood, you know, fishing off the pier and swimming in the sea. Sadly, the hotel I used to go to doesn't exist anymore. They knocked it down and turned it into a sewage treatment plant. Paul Marden: Attractive. Oz Austwick: Yeah, absolutely. But it was absolutely amazing. The sea was very cold indeed. I did get in, had a bit of a swim, as did my eleven year old. The others all chickened out and just sat and watched. But it was lovely, you know, two p machines in the arcades. Paul Marden: Oh, I love it. Was it the pushers on the shelves? Coin drop ones? I love that. Yeah, gotta be the two p ones. Can't afford the ten p ones. That's too rich for me. Oz Austwick: Who can? I mean, that's vast amounts of money to win anything in those. Paul Marden: So Swanage for me just brings back memories of geography, field trips. I remember going there for about a week whilst I was at secondary school donkeys years ago, so. Oz Austwick: Right, well, we used to drive down from Yorkshire, where I grew up, and it would take all day to drive down to go to Swanage. I mean, it was, yeah, when we were there. Absolutely amazing. And the hotel was lovely before they knocked it down, obviously. So I have very fond memories and, yeah, nothing has happened to spoil those memories, thankfully. A very popular place for us to go. Paul Marden: Lovely day trip. Oz Austwick: Yeah, it really was. It really was. So the M+H show, let's talk about that, because that happened and it was quite a thing, wasn't it? Paul Marden: It really was. I had such a lovely time, so it was my first time at M+H show. It was. It was lovely event. They pitched it as the big meetup and it really was. I mean, it was absolutely jam packed with people. There were lots and lots of people there when I was there on Wednesday and so many people that I know that I was bumping into that were either running stands, presenting, or just being there and enjoying all the great content and meeting people. It was just such an awesome event. How was it for you as your first big attractions event? Oz Austwick: Absolutely, yeah. It wasn't just my first M+H. It was my 1st event. And, yeah, I was gobsmacked, to be honest. It was big. More than anything. I'm just genuinely surprised at how many companies sell museum display cases. Paul Marden: There was a lot of glass cabinets on show. Oz Austwick: Yeah, there really were. And they were beautiful. But, yeah, I mean, how do you differentiate yourself in that market, I wonder? Paul Marden: I would differentiate myself by going around and putting my greasy fingers over all the competition's glass and show how beautiful my cabinets could be. Oz Austwick: Yeah, just take my children. They'd make a mess of the glass within seconds of arriving. So did you get to any of the talks, any of the presentations? Paul Marden: I did, actually, yeah, I saw a few presentations. I thought they were really good this year. It was quite clever being given your headset that you could wear so that you could hear the presenters. Few people that have been in previous years telling me how great that was this time, because that was a new introduction this year. Oz Austwick: Can I just throw a slightly different perspective on that? I turned up late to one presentation and I didn't have the little box and the person who was handing them out was on the other side and couldn't get. So I missed it completely. Yeah, I mean, it's a great way to make sure you can hear what's going on. Paul Marden: It's tough. Isn't it? I felt it was a little bit. So when I had a similar experience where at one point I didn't have one, and it feels a little bit. It's hard, but it answers the problem they've had in previous years, where it was the same layout, where it's a big, noisy hall. And this did make it quite possible for people to be able to hear what was going on. But I would imagine as a speaker on stage, that's quite tough talking to people when you know they can't hear your voice. I don't know. I don't know how I'd feel about that. But there was one presentation that really stuck in my mind, and that was Spencer Clark from ATS and Steve Dering from Direct Access Consultancy. And they were talking about breaking down barriers and basically just giving a collection of essential accessibility tips for attractions. Paul Marden: And it was just such a great presentation. I always think that if I'm presenting at an event, if one person walks away, having heard one thing from me, I feel like I've kind of done my job. And to be fair to Spencer and Steve, they absolutely nailed that. I walked out of the room at the end of that, fizzing with ideas and walked away. And straight away that evening, I was writing a pitch for a client and things that I'd learned from what they were talking about made it into my pitch presentation. It's directly changing the way I think about accessibility. So I thought that it was a great achievement.Oz Austwick: And especially for that specific talk. It's not just a talk that says, “Oh, you can make some more money, do if you do this, or you can improve your response rate if you do this.” Actually saying, “This is a way you can help people.”Paul Marden: Yeah. Oz Austwick: And that's now changed the way that Rubber Cheese works and that. What an amazing result for them. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. There's a few things, few numbers that stuck in my mind and I kind of. I went and read about them afterwards and we'll put some links in the show notes to the survey that these stats are based on. But there was. There's two things that they said which really stuck in my mind. 59% of disabled people say, if a venue has not shared its disabled access information, I avoid going because I assume it's inaccessible. And 77% of disabled people say I'm more likely to visit somewhere new if I can find relevant access information about the venue. So these numbers, they caught me straight away and they got me thinking and made me realise that making a venue accessible is more than just meeting the website accessibility guidelines, which is kind of a key focus for us in the industry.Paul Marden: Lots of organisations will want to make sure that they follow the WCAG guidelines, the accessibility guidelines. Anyone that has a large amount of public sector funding will have a statutory obligation to meet those targets. So that's a big focus of people's attention. But just making it so that a screen reader can read your website, or making it so that you've addressed colour accessibility for people that are colour blind isn't enough to make the attraction itself accessible. So if you don't share the content about how your venue is accessible, people will assume you are not accessible. It was an eye opener for me. They gave a really great example. They talked about Skipton Town Hall up in Yorkshire, and they've got a webpage on their site all about the accessibility features of the building. And it was rich with photography. Paul Marden: So, you know, it's got pictures of all of the access points into the building, what the door looks like and which part of the building it gives level access into. They had pictures of all of the toilets that they've got and how they're accessible. They're fortunate. They've got a changing places toilet. So this is one of these accessible toilets with a large bed and usually with the equipment to be able to move somebody out of a chair and onto a bed to be able to change them. They've got photos of all of that on the website. So the accessibility information is right there. It's really clear and it gives loads of really good evidence that demonstrates this is somewhere that takes accessibility seriously. Oz Austwick: Yeah. Paul Marden: Interestingly, this didn't come out in the talk itself, but I found it interesting that the Craven Museum is based in Skipton Town Hall and they won the most accessible museum and the overall winner of the Family Friendly Museums award last year. And we interviewed them back a couple of weeks ago, back in March. So it kind of shows you that making places more accessible for disabled people makes them more accessible for all sorts of people as well. So, you know, it can make it more accessible for families with young children, it can make it more accessible for the elderly, it can make it more accessible for people with temporary access needs. Paul Marden: If you've breaking your leg or something like that, you know, you're not permanently disabled, but you need access into a building and making places more accessible to you for disabled people widens the access into the entire venue itself. I've since had a quick look at some of our clients and they're all writing about this. People are putting lots of information onto their website about this sort of thing. I saw Eureka had a special microsite all about it and Mary Rose have got information on their website about it. So this is really important content. And for me, sitting and listening to them talking, going back and thinking about it is really. It's really caught my attention and made me think and do things differently, which, you know, I feel like that's what these sorts of events are all about. Really? Oz Austwick: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what a fantastic result for the event. If it opens up the industry to people who were struggling to access it, then, yeah, job done, right? Paul Marden: Yeah, completely. What about you? Oz Austwick: There were a few highlights for me, but I think one of the things that stood out the most was getting to meet some of the kind of movers and shakers within the community meeting Gordon from ACE, what a lovely guy. Had a fantastic chat to him and it really struck me how there are so many people and organisations who exist within the sector purely to try and improve the whole sector for everybody. I like it anyway because I've got a real interest in the historical side of things, museums and stately homes and castles that really talks to me and I take the kids out to places, so it's nice to know, but to actually be part of an industry where everyone's trying to help each other, I think is really lovely. Paul Marden: It really isn't it? Yeah. There were so many people like Gordon that you met at the event and they just make you feel good, they make you buzzy. There's a huge kind of collective recharge of batteries and fizzing of ideas that comes from these sorts of events, it was just brilliant. Oz Austwick: Yeah. That's what networking should be, right? Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. I was going to do a shout out for one person that had a stand. I've got a card that I picked up. This is a lady called Sonya Varoujian and she runs an organisation called Noor and Katu. They import these handmade crocheted little animals, finger puppets and toys and things. I went straight over to those because my daughter is crocheting like mad. She got taught by grandma a couple of months ago. It blows my mind. I have absolutely no idea what's going on as she's doing this and all of a sudden, out the other side comes a squid. But this little organisation Sonya was living and working in Armenia got the idea when she returned back to the UK and now imports these toys and they're for sale in a bunch of different attractions. Paul Marden: I just thought it was really lovely that these were fair trade, they were nice, creative things that I know my daughter would absolutely lap up at an organisation and it's completely sustainable and makes a big difference in communities that are not well served. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. And I know that you, like me, almost certainly get dragged into gift shops at visitor attraction sites on a regular basis and there comes a point where you've seen the staff and to have a company out there that's not only doing good things, but providing something a little bit different, a little bit unique that you can buy in a gift shop and actually feel like you've done something worthwhile and bought something that isn't just going to fall apart in a couple of weeks. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Oz Austwick: I think that. Yeah, yeah, it would be really nice to see more things like that. So, yeah, go and check them out if you're listening or watching. Paul Marden: Did you see any talks yourself that  caught your attention? Oz Austwick: Yeah, yeah, there were a couple that sprung to them. But firstly, I wanted to just briefly mention the talk that I didn't get to watch. I'm a YouTuber, not a massively successful one, but I'm part of a YouTube community. So when I saw that the Tank Museum was doing a talk about how they've used the YouTube creator community to boost their own social media and their own income, I thought, “Fantastic, I'll go along and see that.” Because my brother in law, who's a far more successful YouTuber than I am, was actually part of that. He got invited down to make a video about his favourite tank. So I turned up and obviously I thought I was on time. I was too late. It was hugely crowded, there was no seats, there was no space. So I was stood in the kind of the corridor. Oz Austwick: It's not really. Is it a corridor? The path, the walkway, I don't know what you call it. And, yeah, got moved on by the venue staff because.Paul Marden: Loitering in the corridors. Oz Austwick: We were effectively blocking the way through. And rightly so, you know, they need to make sure access is maintained. But, yeah, I didn't get to see that talk, which I was a little bit sad about, but a couple of talks that I did get to see, which stood out, was the Bloomberg panel discussion hosted by Kripa Gurung. They're doing some amazing work. And the fact that it's a completely philanthropic organisation, I think is quite amazing if you haven't come across what Bloomberg are doing with Bloomberg Connects the app. But, yeah, that was really interesting. Talking about what they're doing, how they're getting organisations online, having the museum at the home and English Heritage there, talking about what they're doing with Bloomberg Connects was great. Oz Austwick: But I think, if I'm being honest, my favourite talk was the Castle Howard Christmas events talk, partly because it was really interesting, talking about the marketing and how they've created this amazing Christmas event that has a real following and people come back year after year and they've done that on purpose and it's been hugely successful. But Abby from Castle Howard, she's just hilarious. She's been a guest a couple of times, talking about how she hospitalised an old man on his very last ever day at work and then how she sacked Santa. Just, yeah, if you get a chance to go and see their talks go along, because it's not only entertaining but informative, too. So, yeah, that's probably the highlight for me. Paul Marden: Cool. I saw a lovely presentation. Longtime listeners will know that I'm a Kids in Museums trustee. So I went over and watched the Kids in Museums Youth Panel and it was really interesting because they had a summit focused around young people and their needs in museums back last year. They had a webinar where they talked about it a couple of months ago and I was blown away by these people who are part of the Kids in Museums Youth Panel. You know, young people at early stages of their careers, some of them are at uni still. Some of them are in the early stages of their first jobs and just talking so articulately about their experience of museums, what they think museums should change, what's going well, what could be done better? Paul Marden: And so I wasn't disappointed when I saw them speaking in real life. They did a cracking job talking about the museum summit and what they think are the issues in the museum. So there was a couple of stats I pulled out of it. Over 90% of young people don't feel considered as an audience and represented in museums, which that blows my mind, because we talk a lot about audience with the people that we work with, and the needs of young people are central to many of the conversations that we have about audience. So there. That made me think, “Oh, is there a problem where the conversations that do get had are not being discussed in the right way? Is it a problem of perception? Paul Marden: Is it that young people don't perceive that they're being considered when in actual fact they are, or is it a lack of involvement and so they feel like it's being done to them rather than being done with them?” Yeah. Food for thought. If most young people feel that museums don't consider them as part of their audience, that's problematic. Oz Austwick: Yeah, absolutely. Isn't it? I mean, I'd be amazed if the people that were running the museums had the same opinion. I suspect they clearly think they are doing things for young people and children, but maybe they're just not asking those young people what they want. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. So there's a few things that the youth panel suggested could be done. So loads of kids go on school trips to museums. But have a guess what you think the minimum age is to go unaccompanied into a museum in some museums? Oz Austwick: Well, I mean, I'd expect that it would probably be 16. That feels like a reasonable age. Paul Marden: There are museums where you have to be 18 to go unaccompanied into the museum. Oz Austwick: Why? Paul Marden: You can go and get a job, you can go and pay your taxes, but you can't go into the museums on your own because you're not a responsible adult. That's interesting. And I use that word with a great deal of misuse. Oz Austwick: Yeah. I just struggle to work out how you could justify that. Paul Marden: I know. Oz Austwick: Well, obviously there are one or two museums out there where you probably need to be 18 to go in and have a look. Yeah. I mean, in general, why 18? Paul Marden: Yeah, I think standards of behaviour, you can expect people to behave in a certain way, but that doesn't. That's not dependent on age, that's dependent on your behaviour. Oz Austwick: And the sort of teenager that genuinely wants to go into a museum is probably going to behave pretty well when they're in that museum. Paul Marden: Yeah, you'd think. So the next thing I might play into this, but one of the things the youth panel want is to see more youth groups being represented in the decision making process in museums, so that they better represent communities and highlight career pathways for young people. Including more working class histories in museums would help people feel more represented. I thought that was quite interesting. We've been to a few recently where we did not necessarily see stories of our background being well presented at the museum. Oz Austwick: Yes. Paul Marden: Enough for both of us to have noticed it and commented it as we were wandering around. Oz Austwick: It's interesting because some do it really well. Paul Marden: Yeah. Oz Austwick: And coming from a historical background with a focus on arms and armour, there's a real issue that the sort of arms and armour that have survived from the mediaeval period are the unusual ones and they're the ones in the museum. So that's what people see. And you kind of assume that this fancy, ornate, decorated, enamelled armour is pretty standard, but the bog standard stuff didn't survive and maybe that's the issue when you're looking at furniture in a room, in a house, the fancy furniture is the one that survived because people cared about it. It wasn't being used on a day to day basis. Paul Marden: Yeah. Oz Austwick: Yeah. I don't know, but you're absolutely right, it does give you a slightly skewed view of what's actually out there. Paul Marden: Yeah. Look, if you're interested listeners, in finding out more about what the Kids in Museums Youth Panel are looking to achieve, they've just published an open letter to changemakers within the sector where they talk passionately about what they think the sector needs to do to change. There's a lovely video that goes alongside the open letter where these young people are using their voice to be able to advocate for change. It's great, it's really interesting and I highly recommend everybody goes and watches the video and reads the letter and then does something about it. Oz Austwick: So, anything else from M+H  that we need to talk about? Paul Marden: The lovely meal and drinks afterwards. The very lovely Bala McAlin and Stephen Spencer, both once of these parts, were hosting an event Wednesday evening, I think it was, which was absolutely lovely. Well attended. Drinks flowed, food came out. It was delightful. Very much appreciated. Oz Austwick: Yeah. And I have very mixed feelings about the fact that I decided to leave a little bit early. Paul Marden: But you got home at a reasonable time and I didn't manage to drag my backside in the front door until about half midnight. And it wasn't because I had a wonderful night, it was because I spent most of it in Waterloo station trying to get home. Oz Austwick: Yeah. A bit of an issue with the train. Paul Marden: Yes. I would much preferred if I'd actually stayed at the drinks event and then dragged myself into Waterloo later once they'd actually sorted themselves out. Oz Austwick: So I think at this point we probably need to talk about how the government have ruined our plans for the next few months of podcast content. Paul Marden: Yes.Oz Austwick: Because we've been thinking for a little while that it would be a really nice thing to do to talk to the main political parties about their idea for the visitor attraction industry in the future. And obviously our hands been forced a little bit. Paul Marden: It hasn't it? We're not the only ones. I think quite a few people were caught on the hop a little bit when Rishi announced the general election on the 4th of  July. So, yeah, events, dear boy, have somewhat overtaken us, haven't they? Oz Austwick: Yeah, just a little. So, yeah, we're probably not going to do that if for no other reason that the Labour Party shadow minister isn't standing again, for all the right reasons. But it does mean that there's a bit of an imbalance there and if we can't talk to all the parties equally and get their ideas, we probably shouldn't talk to any of them. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Oz Austwick: That being said, we can still talk about it, right? Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. The lovely people at ALVA Bernard, who presented at M+H and talked about this very subject, amongst other things, they've done a lot of policy work and have prepared some thoughts around what they think is important to the sector, around strengthening the visitor economy, protecting arts and culture and heritage and supporting the natural environment, whilst at the same time looking after all of those people that either work or give up their time to support the sector. So, yeah, there's a few things in there that I thought it was worth us just touching on, because I think it's really important that we think about what the future of the sector could look like in just a very few weeks time as the country changes. They've got some interesting thoughts. Paul Marden: Unsurprisingly, the sector would probably benefit from some reduced taxation and there's quite a number of different areas within which ALVA think that the taxation burden on the sector could be lessened. And similarly, they've also got ideas around how funding for the various arts councils and support organisations around the different home nations would make a substantial difference, especially around capital funding would make a big difference to the sector. But there was a few very specific arts which jumped out as me, as being kind of. They really meant something to me. So there's one. ALVA says, “They ask all the political parties to ensure culture, life, performance, arts, heritage and nature are experienced by every child and young person and are within the national curriculum.” Yeah, I think this is so important. Yeah, I think I've talked on the podcast before. Paul Marden: This was one of the big COVID victims. So many schools during COVID had to stop taking kids out and experiencing the outside world and going to day trips and the like. And I just. I think it is so important. It's really hard for many schools. They've got such a burden around meeting the curriculum, budget cuts, all of the calls on the staff time is so hard for them to prioritise day trips. But I've seen him in my own daughter's school. Just the powerful impact it has on the kids. They're a school where the kids barely spend a whole week in class. They're usually out doing something outside of school, which I just think is brilliant. And I got to tag along with them. A few months ago. We went to London. Paul Marden: We did the trip to the Science Museum, took the kids up on the train and on the tube, which was, let me tell you, quite scary. Oz Austwick: Did you manage to bring them all back? Paul Marden: Counted them in and counted them out and it was all good. It was all good. But then went into parliament and that was just brilliant. Taking a bunch of ten and eleven year olds into parliament and bless them, it was the tail end of the day. So they were all shattered. But they were so completely engaged by it. They saw Priti Patel walking through the central lobby. They saw all of these different ministers, their advisors, and they got to sit in the chamber of the House of Commons and seeing debate going on. It was all about Horizon scandal. It was just. It was such a brilliant day trip for the kids and how much does it enrich them.Paul Marden: Yeah, okay, me and Millie go to these places all the time, but, you know, there might be one or two kids in that school for whom this is the only time that they get to experience a day trip into London and see one of the big national museums and go in and enjoy parliament. I never got to go into parliament when I was Millie's age. Oz Austwick: No. And I think it's really important to say that. I mean, both you and I live in the southeast of the country in a relatively rural and affluent area and that even here with the schools that we've got, they're struggling to do this. And then when you look at what the inner city schools are having to deal with and some of the northern cities and northern towns where they're really struggling with population poverty up there, how are those kids getting similar opportunities? Paul Marden: Yeah. Oz Austwick: And the fact is they're not. Paul Marden: No, no. Oz Austwick: And that's something that I can't agree with ALVA more on this, that this needs to be prioritised because this is the future. Paul Marden: Yeah. Another area where we've had direct experience, from conversations we've been having recently is around supporting local authorities in their care of civic collections and culture. I mean, you've spoken to so many places recently, haven't you, where cultural budgets are just being eviscerated. Oz Austwick: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I've always had a kind of a love of finding those little obscure rural town museums because you find some amazing things in them. My local museum, it's a tiny little market town and they've got like a special area of Egyptian relics. They've got a mummy in a sarcophagus in this little museum that's what, four rooms? But they've got no funding. And there's so many times we're talking to museums like this. They know what they need and they know what they want, but they just don't have the money to be able to do it. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Oz Austwick: They come to us looking for a website and they're just struggling for budget to do anything. Paul Marden: Yeah, which is where things like that Bloomberg Connect app comes in, because when you look on the Bloomberg Connect site, you've got big national museums like National Portrait Gallery in there using the Connect app. But there were some little ones in there as well that I saw, you know, small local town museums just like the ones that you're describing in there using that app. Oz Austwick: I was looking through the app last night and my eye was caught by, I think it was Beverly Town Hall. I was born in Beverley, up in the East Riding of Yorkshire, and I sort of thought, “Oh, I'll have a look at that.” And I just got drawn in and it was just this amazing experience. I didn't even know Beverley had a town hall that was open to the public, nevermind that had a collection that you could view through the Bloomberg Connect app. So, yeah, I guess maybe a little bit more in the way of awareness, but it shouldn't be down to a philanthropic organisation like Bloomberg to keep these museums and collections going. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. So look, the ALVA kios of the political parties is up there on their main website. Really worth going and looking at. As the manifestos are published, you'll be able to see what the political parties are doing. There's already some information on the various different party websites around what they want to do within the culture and tourism sectors. But I think we've got a few weeks yet to wait until we see the actual cast iron commitments come out in manifestos. So that'll be interesting to see the direction that takes. Oz Austwick: And I suspect we're going to talk about this a little bit more over the next few episodes, perhaps. Paul Marden: Yeah, maybe. The other thing I will mention, this is a shameless plug because I work as a trustee at Kids in Museums. We're working on this flagship awards ceremony and it is absolutely delightful event lots of people enjoying themselves doing amazing work and there is a sponsorship opportunity. So if you're like us, one of those kind of sector supporting organisations that serve the attraction sector, and you'd like to support the good work of Kids in Museums and be associated with that amazing event, give me a shout, because I can point you in the direction of the right people to talk to get that sponsorship in place and I know it will make a massive difference to them. Have you been busy recently? What have you been up to? Oz Austwick: Do you know what? Weirdly, it's been a little bit busy. Yeah. I mean it feels like it's always a little bit busy, but it's been specifically a little bit busy because as of yesterday we've launched the third annual Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey. Paul Marden: Excellent. Oz Austwick: That's quite a mouthful, isn't it? It'd be really nice to find a catchier name for it than that. Paul Marden: I always talk about naming is the hardest problem in computing, but naming is the hardest problem in marketing, I think. Oz Austwick: Yeah, let's be honest, what it's actually known is pretty much new survey brackets two. So it's the third one. The first one was a bit of an eye opener, the fact that there wasn't anything already out there and we did this and it was amazing. The second one, we tried to refine it and we got some really nice, interesting data. This is probably the first time we've been able to sit and look at it and go, “Right, okay, now we've got a couple of years worth of results. We can look at what we actually need to be asking and what's just out there because we want to ask, because it's interesting and what information we're not actually getting.”Oz Austwick: So we've really cut back on the number of questions and I think it's probably safe to say that isn't going to have a massive impact on the quality of the information that we get, but it's also allowed us to add in a few extra little bits as well. So yeah, we're talking about sustainability and the use of AI and yeah, I'm really excited. Paul Marden: Yeah. Oz Austwick: I haven't actually looked to see if people have started filling it. Paul Marden: I can't look, I can't look. I just kind of want to look through my fingers. Oz Austwick: I'm not sure I want to know, but yeah. So if you are listening to this, if you've got this far into the podcast and you work at a visitor attraction, please go and fill this in. There's a link in the show notes. There's links on LinkedIn, on X. Everywhere we go. There will be a link for this. And if you can't find it, go to rubbercheese.com. And it's right there at the top of the homepage. There's a link. Paul Marden: Yeah. rubbercheese.com/survey, slip that right in there. Oz Austwick: Yeah. I think one of the things we've done differently is the advisory board. We talked about this a little bit in the last episode. We did what an amazing thing to have these guys on board. I think they've saved us months of work by just being clever. Paul Marden: They've improved the quality of what we've done. Asking us, what on earth are you asking that question for? Those answers are exactly the same answer. Can't you make it easier for me to know what I need to gather before I type my data in? Oz Austwick: Exactly, saying, “Oh, well, I wouldn't fill it in because you don't tell me what I need to do.” Okay, well, we'll do that. It's not a problem. Yeah. How amazing. So thank you to them and to Expian for sponsoring the advisory board. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. And we're working through now focusing on the kind of engagement plan to increase more people. And then, you know, whilst we have a lull as people are going to be filling in their survey, we'll start planning, looking at the data, seeing where the stories lie. We'll talk about that in some future episodes, but starting to gather together what the final report looks like and the stories that will be told. And, you know, we're really grateful to Convious for sponsoring us on the digital survey and the digital report that will follow and then a bunch of webinars that will run afterwards. So, you know, the call to action for us is get in there, find your data, read the guidance notes, go and fill in the survey. Paul Marden: But then once you've done that, come and talk to us because, you know, we'd love to know what you would like us to dig in to. It is amazing how this rich resource of data that we've got and people ask us questions that we've never even thought of, and we look at the data differently and we find a different story in there. So without your input, without you telling us what's interesting you, with what's bothering you, what's challenging you, we don't look at the data properly and we don't find those stories for you. So come and talk to us. Oz Austwick: Is this how it feels to kind of run a museum, to be the custodian of this amazing thing and just want people to come and engage with it. Yes, because that's kind of it. You know, we've got this amazing data and it's got all of these wonderful stories within it that are relevant to anyone in the industry and we just want to talk about it. So, yeah, please fill in the survey, talk to us about it and, yeah, with any luck, this one will be bigger and better than the last two. Paul Marden: There we go. Couldn't ask for more than that, could we? Oz Austwick: No. Before we go, because we're going to wrap up relatively soon, there's one thing that I noticed that we failed to do last time and we talk a lot about giving away a book and I think we even said we were giving away a book in the last episode and then never mentioned a book. So, Paul, do you have a book that you'd like to recommend? Paul Marden: Do you know what, Oz? It's funny you should say that. I absolutely do. I have this book Delivering the Visitor Experience by also previously of these parts, Rachel Mackay, who is, I believe, at Hampton Court Palace, and she's written an amazing book about what it is to create, manage and develop unforgettable vista experiences at museums. I don't want a museum, but it was really interesting for me to be able to read this book all about the process that people that do run museums go through to develop, craft and tell that story and give that amazing experience. It's a brilliant book. Heartily recommend it. And if you retweet the show note saying, “I want Paul's book”, then you too could get an amazing copy of Delivering the Visitor Experience by our friend Rachel Mackay. Oz Austwick: Amazing. Thanks very much. Paul Marden: Slightly out of breath because it will be edited out, I'm sure, but I had to run up the corridor and go find the book and take it off the shelf and bring it down because although I was completely organised with all my stuff from M+H show, did not have my book recommendation. Well, there you go. I think that just about wraps us up, doesn't it? It's been a busy few weeks for us with M+H show and all that's going on and that doesn't look to abate over the next few months as we get the survey into shape and find out what's happening in the sector. Oz Austwick: So I think it's only going to get busier. Paul Marden: It is. How is this your first time actually hosting? Oz Austwick: I think I prefer this one. Maybe that's because it's not my first one. Or maybe it's just because I. Paul Marden: Because you're power hungry and you took the captain's chair. Oz Austwick: Make it so. Yeah, definitely Picard rather than Kirk. But that's because he's a West Yorkshire man. Paul Marden: Is he really? You've got too much hair to be Picard. I'm sorry.Oz Austwick:  I'm not wearing my Star Trek uniform.Paul Marden: On that bombshell. Thank you very much, mate. Oz Austwick: Thank you. Oz Austwick: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on X for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, SkiptheQueue.fm. The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!

Graham reports on his meeting with David Remfry, Britain's coolest artist, aged 81. Graham met him at his new exhibition, We Think the World of You - People and Dogs Drawn at The Mercer Gallery, Harrogate's only public gallery, once again proving itself indispensable with a high quality exhibition of national interest.Charles is fresh from seeing the Monet exhibition at York Art Gallery, a new exhibition and as part of the National Gallery bicentenary. York Art Gallery's Monet in York celebrates the National Gallery's National Treasures Exhibition with an exclusive commission entitled Una Sinfonia by acclaimed contemporary artist, Michaela Yearwood-Dan.As if two high quality exhibitions was not enough, Charles reviews sculptor, Tony Cragg's exhibition at Castle Howard.Graham remembers the American musician and producer Keith LeBlanc, drummer and member of Tackhead who has passed away.Keep in touch with Two Big Egos in a Small Car:X@2big_egosFacebook@twobigegos

In today's episode we discuss the life of Sir John Vanbrugh through his greatest works, a radical figure in theatre, design, politics and art. Sir John Vanbrugh's legacy is kept alive most notably by Blenheim Palace and Castle Howard.

THIS WEEK we have EVIDENCE of an actual ghost from our hunt at Castle Howard... Have a listen and let us know your thoughts. It's weird as HELL. The legend of Six Chicky Nuggies comes back to haunt us (and you) and we hear of the man who almost became one with the tide. We hear tales of Disneyland gone wrong, a haunting celeb tale from Stratford, Hannah bangs on about another castle with some fatal roses and we end with our stunning... CREEP OF THE WEEK  (sorry we missed it last week). This week we hear from the gorge Megan and her Scottish story. Finally we discuss ball sacks, Ghost Spice (come back to us Geri), and Big S holds her breath until she nearly dies. What MORE could you want.  ENJOY HUNS xx P.s. We are on TOUR!!!! BOOK YOUR TICKETS NOW!  https://linktr.ee/ghosthunspod  JOIN OUR PATREON! EXTRA bonus episodes AND a monthly ghost hunt for just £4.50! Or £6 for AD-FREE EPS and weekly AGONY HUNS! We'll solve your problems huns!  Sign up here: www.patreon.com/GhostHuns

This week you are treated to Nuggie Part 4 (will this Dear David ever end?), and the huns jump out their skin. Then Hannah tells us about the ghosts of Castle Howard (where we did our latest Patreon ghost hunt!) and we hear about a medium called Brenda and a possible Ann Summers theme.  We also hear about the poor battle-axe (we're reclaiming the word) Agnes and her trials and tribs with a twat knight who she rejected at Burg Eltz.  Creep of The Week is from Tom - ty hun! CREEPYKID vibes in this one.  We Get Haunted so You Don't Have To - we delve into Tim's sigil (sexyvigil) and curse our enemies... well. one of them for now.  ENJOY HUNS xoxo  P.s. We are on TOUR!!!! BOOK YOUR TICKETS NOW!  https://linktr.ee/ghosthunspod  JOIN OUR PATREON! EXTRA bonus episodes AND a monthly ghost hunt for just £4.50! Or £6 for AD-FREE EPS and weekly AGONY HUNS! We'll solve your problems huns!  Sign up here: www.patreon.com/GhostHuns

Garden designer and professional gardener Alan Mason was a founder member of the Professional Gardeners' Guild. He became chairman 45 years later, taking over from Tony Arnold in September 2022."I avoided being chairman for as long as possible", he says. " I was vice chairman. I had been treasurer. I had been secretary, but it was never my desire to become chairman. It just happened."He has enjoyed the support of the "fabulous team" on the committee around him and says "in the last 12 months particularly there have been some very exciting developments. It's a great place to be at the moment."He talks about the focus for the Guild, which, as with all trade associations, is how to drive up the membership and also how best to serve it. The importance of visiting each others gardens and learning ways to cope with pest and diseases, planting tips and the like from other head gardeners is still key: "There's more information to be gleaned from other head gardeners than there is from Google."He wanted to be a footballer, but while waiting for his break, began a four-year horticultural apprenticeship and studied with the Institute of Groundsmanship and later Askham Bryan College. "I thought I might become a groundsman. Surely I'll get spotted kicking a football at lunchtime. I'll be playing for England in a fortnight. It never happened."After completing his studies he landed the job of head gardener at Bramham Park, a French style garden where in some ways, his learning was just beginning:"I always said I learnt more in the first six months as a head gardener than I had in eight years at college. And that's not meant to be a slur on what they taught me at Askham Bryan. It's just that when you're in position, you have to learn."Castle Howard's Brian Hutchinson formed the Professional Gardeners Guild around this time and Alan was offered the gardener's manager's job at Harewood House which is where he got his TV break when Yorkshire TV started filming there.After leaving Harewood in 1987 he set up a garden design business, got a contract in France, bought a 14th century manor house set in eight and a half acres and decided to create a garden there which Yorkshire TV (later on Channel 4) turned into Le Manoir - "and this was 25 years before Escape to the Chateau".Alan talks about PGG's work with horticultural charity Perennial and how he's looking to make links with other garden organisations including National Trust and Historic Houses.He's also involved with encouraging people into the industry via traineeships in collaboration with English Heritage, Historic and Botanic Gardens Trainee Programme and the MacRobert Trust. "It's so easy just to become an insular little group for head gardeners. And we don't want that at all. We want to be what Brian Hutchinson thought we should be at the very start, great for our own members, learning from each other."Alan talks about his view on pay grades for gardeners, financial pressures and how, post-Covid, many places have replaced professionals with volunteers."What the PGG does is offer a salaries and rates guideline...you can use that guideline to show to your employer...and very often it does help with negotiation."It is a negotiating tool, but it will never be perfect. But it is a great assistance. And I know that other professional bodies look to the PGG for our salaries and rates guideline and use it as a good example. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Journey through Great Britain to discover hidden gems like a Harry Potter filming location, a castle reminscent of Downtown Abbey and a unique vacation destination for book lovers. In North Yorkshire, England, Darley Newman shares an insider's tour of iconic Castle Howard with guide Jane Blunt, delving into its history and the visionary mind of architect John Vanbrugh. She takes you to Goathland Station, a Harry Potter filming location in the quaint village featured as Aidensfield in the British drama Heartbeat. How about a literary escape in Wales? At Gladstone's Library, Peter Francis leads Darley on a tour of the stacks and to see the reading rooms and accomodations at the UK's only prime-ministerial library... where you can also stay the night. Look for Darley's travel tips and videos on social media @darleynewman and @TravelswithDarley and her PBS and streaming series.

Are you ready to embark on a festive journey across the UK with us this holiday season? With the joyful chimes of Christmas bells ringing in the air, join your host Tracy Collins and a variety of guests as they light up your holiday vacation plans with unique experiences around the UK. From the glittering Christmas markets in Bath to winter walks in the far North of Scotland, from the fairy-lit cottages of the Cotswolds to the historic Christmas decorations at Castle Howard in Yorkshire, we cover an exciting range of attractions, adventures, and personal traditions that make the UK magical during Christmas!Each guest shares their favourite Christmas traditions and attractions, painting a vivid picture of their respective regions during the holiday season. Imagine caroling in the stable with donkeys at Puffin Croft, or capturing the festively lit city of London through your camera lens! And don't forget about those pleasant countryside walks in warm boots and the joy of discovering unique gifts in the shops of the Cotswolds! Tracy and Doug also share their plans for a traditional British Christmas, which of course includes tuning into the King's speech on Christmas Day and a football match on Boxing Day. So, cosy up with a cup of hot chocolate and let's plan the perfect UK vacation together this Christmas.Show notes - Episode 77Support the show❤️ Do you enjoy our weekly podcast? We love putting together our shows for you and sharing our knowledge, love of UK travel and of course practical tips to save you time and money.

Please welcome, Harriet Stubbs, she performed all over the UK at Del a War Pavillion, Canterbury Theatre, Brighton Festival, Castle Howard, St Martin-in-the-Fields, St John's Smith Square, St John's Waterloo, Cheltenham Recital Series, The Reform Club, The Travellers Club, St James's Piccadilly, The Georgian Theatre Royal and London City Lights Festival. At the age of thirteen Harriet performed in Warner Bros Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban before appearing on ITV's Britain's Brilliant Prodigies as top three instrumentalists and top pianist in the country. Harriet debuted her debut commercially released album Heaven and Hell: The Doors Of Perception produced by Russ Titelman and featuring Marianne Faithfull with Naxos USA. She has been giving daily concerts in London's W14 and is now given 200 consecutive concerts in 200 days, during the Covid 19 lockdown. She was awarded the British Empire Medal (BEM) in the 2022 Birthday Honours for services to the community in West London during Covid-19. Find out more about Harriett and her incredible road to stardom.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends July 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://bristolzoo.org.uk/https://www.wildplace.org.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-coe-mba-943a7985/ Mike Coe (MBA), Commercial Director: Mike has over 20 years' experience working in commercial and leadership roles within both charity and the private sector. Mike joined the Society in December 2021 and is responsible for the commercial and public engagement strategy.  Previous to joining the Society he was CEO at the Friends of Westonbirt Arboretum developing funding strategies and vision delivery in conservation, education and participation at the National Arboretum.  Before that Mike was also CEO of Arnos Vale, leading the successful restoration and sustainable financial transformation programme within the iconic heritage and wildlife estate. Mike also led the relaunch of the Bristol Aquarium alongside leading successful consultancy projects supporting organisational change and delivery within the visitor economy. Transcriptions:  Kelly Molson: Mike, thank you so much for coming on to Skip The Queue today. It's lovely to see you. Mike Coe: Thanks, Kelly. Kelly Molson: We are recording on a very snowy March day, but Mike and I are inside in the warm, so we're quite happy. Mike Coe: Yeah, well, still got a bit of snow outside at Wild Place. We had loads yesterday and had to try and shovel that all off and get the site open, ready for the visitors. Our visitor services team were out moving water around the site and shoveling snow, but it's all pretty much melted away now, so it's still quite wintry looking out there, but, yeah, not so slippery. Kelly Molson: There you go. The visitor experience team, they're the heroes of the day. Right, Mike, we're going to start off with some icebreakers, so I want to know if I could gift you a month off tomorrow and you could travel anywhere in the world. I know, right, please, let's put that out of the universe. Where would you go? Mike Coe: So when I left university, I actually travelled around Southern Africa. So I spent some time in Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, South Africa. Really enjoyed my time there. I was teaching there and working in a rhino sanctuary and did a number of things out there and always wished, always wanted to go back. I'll be back all the time, but actually, I never got the opportunity to head back there and then had children. You need a length of time to get out there. So, yeah, if I had a month, I would definitely go back and sort of retrace those steps and just see how much things have changed over that time period, from sort of 2000, 2001 to sort of where we are now, sort of 20 odd years later. Mike Coe: So, yeah, I think I'd love to be able to do that and take my time and travel those areas. I'm a massive fan of the culture over there, but also, as you're probably not surprised, the wildlife over there, so it'd be a great chance to see how that's changed and transformed. Kelly Molson: Amazing. Would you go on your own or would you take kids? Mike Coe: I think I'd probably go on my own. Kelly, boy, I think as much as I'd love it, my little boy loves an adventure. Charlie I just think, yeah, sometimes, you know what I mean? It's having to think about them while you're trying to discover the place. Might be getting away a bit. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I hear you. It's funny because we've always said if we were lucky enough to have children, they would be part of our travel adventures as well. Now I'm like, yeah, maybe not. I changed my mind on that.Mike Coe: Keep your eyes on them, as well as what's going on. Kelly Molson: Great. Okay, if you were in a karaoke booth, what is your karaoke go to song? Mike Coe: Probably Bon Jovi's Living on a Prayer. You can imagine that after a few drinks, microphone on hand, thinking you're a Rock Gods, melting that one out. It's a classic. Classic's spud a goody.Kelly Molson: I feel like if you're going to do karaoke, you've got to do a crowd pleaser that everyone knows the words too and then they carry you along, Mike. Mike Coe: Absolutely, you can't go into karaoke singing a song that you can sing. It has to be something that you literally can't hit any note on. And that's definitely one of those for me. Kelly Molson: We could do karaoke together. We're on the same level of karaoke skill here. Right, last one. Can you share with me one of your irrational fears? Mike Coe: Oh, cool. That's a good one. Actually, mine is always I would say it's about people letting people down. So I think when you sort of move up and you're in leadership roles, you're aware of what you can do. But it's always that sense of or fear of, have I done something? Have I let other people down? I can let myself down, but it's that letting other people down. So I do think I take great pride and passion in supporting teams, and if I feel I've let them down, I think that's the thing that hits me the hardest, if I'm honest.Kelly Molson: Would you say, because this is one of my biggest challenges, because I think I'm like a certified people pleaser. So one of the things that took at the beginning of this year was I need to be careful about things that I say yes to, because I put myself under a massive amount of pressure when I do that, because I don't want to let people down all the time. So I've started to kind of just take a bit of a step back and go, “Can I do this? I really want to do this. But do I have the capacity for this? What pressure is this going to put on me this year?” But that is one of my biggest things, is a fear of letting people down because of that. Mike Coe: Yeah, and I'm the same. And you do have to end up setting boundaries, and it's only you have to set those boundaries because by saying yes too much and doing too much, ultimately you are going to let people down. You just don't have the capacity to do a good job. And I think we're all guilty, everyone's guilty of taking too much on because you just want to do a good job. But actually, it's that setting those boundaries and actually understand that it's okay to say no as long as there's a reason for that. Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Boundary is the word of the year, I think. Thank you for sharing that. Right. What is your unpopular opinion that you've prepared for us? Mike Coe: I know, and I didn't know where to go with this one, to be honest, because I've got quite a few. And this one, and I'm going to apologise now because I've got many Parisian friends. We work with some here as well. But I just think that Paris is a little bit overrated, Kelly. And I know, like I said, I've got so many friends from France and Parisians, and they've tried to convince me. I've been there a few times, but for me, it's just expensive. I always seem to end up with bad service there. I had my wallet stolen there once. I suppose that set me off on a bad foot. Mike Coe: And then seeing some of those sort of images, the sites that you've been expecting, and reading books when you're younger, and then when you get there, they're just not quite for me and for me, just wasn't quite what I had expected. So, yeah, it's going to be an unpopular decision and an popular thing to say, but I just don't get Paris and the romanticism around Paris, and maybe I'll be convinced as I go in later into life, and somebody will take me there and I'll see it for what I should. But, yeah, Paris is overrated, Kelly.Kelly Molson: Paris is overrated, statement. I really like this one. I don't know how unpopular this is going to be. Interesting. I just got back from a conference, actually, where there was a Parisian speaker who was really funny. He does a comedy show in Paris about Parisians and their culture. And he said, “Yeah, we are rude. We are openly rude, and we celebrate in being rude.” And I thought, “Well, okay, yeah, at least own it.” Mike Coe: Yeah, maybe I don't get that. Maybe I should just accept that they are rude and just live with that. Kelly Molson: Yeah, go with that expectation. Again, that's a very sweeping statement, and that may not be my opinion. Just putting that out there. That was what the comedian was telling me. Mike Coe: I will add to it to any Parisian friends of mine watching this, I love you all. Kelly Molson: Mirabelle from Convius will be listening to this, I'm sure. And I adore you. This is, again, not my unpopular opinion. Thank you. That was a good one. Well, let me know what you think, listeners. Let me know if you're sharing Mike's, how do we get Mike's unsatisfactory opinion of Paris? Mike Coe: Yeah, my one star TripAdvisor review of Paris. Kelly Molson: Okay. Right. I'm really glad that you've come on the podcast today, Mike, because we are going to talk about something that we've never talked about on the podcast before and that's about actually the decision to close an attraction. Sometimes we're talking about attractions opening and all of the amazing things that they're doing, but this time we're going to talk about an attraction closing. So tell us a little bit about your background and then we can start to talk about what your current role entails and how you got to that decision. Mike Coe: Yeah, I've been in visitor attractions now since around about 2010 and then earlier through my studies, I studied leisure and tourism as well, but really got back into visitor attractions after a break, actually, with BP in their graduate scheme for a while. And I launched or relaunched Bristol, well, what was then Blue Reef Aquarium, but rebranded and relaunched Bristol Aquarium in Bristol, which was a great one for me, to be honest with you, launching a new product, new brand and a really nice new attraction for Bristol. So, yeah, growing and developing new attractions, certainly for me. And then on there, I was brought in chief executive of Arnos Vale, which is actually a cemetery in Bristol, but we was scheduled to close and we got some Heritage Lottery funding to reopen that as a heritage site, events as well going on there. Mike Coe: So were the first people doing events in a cemetery as a heritage site, as a museum, and we found a sustainable model for it financially to actually make it pay for itself. So this heritage site would save, secured, rebuilt with the Heritage Lottery Fund money and really a great success story of developing another new visitor attraction in Bristol as well. Then over to Westonbirt the National Arboretum, supporting Forestry England in the development and growth of Westonbirt the National Arboretum and some great new developments there. So always growing new commercial opportunities within visitor attractions. And then this opportunity with Bristol Zoological Society, which is very different, of course, because I hadn't closed a visitor attraction before. Mike Coe: But, yeah, that was what I moved over to Bristol Zoological Society to which, although I say it's about closing Bristol Zoo, it was a lot more than that, of course. So it's the closure of Bristol Zoo Gardens after 186 years, but actually the future and the positivity for the society that brings, because we also own an attraction called Wild Place Project. And the sale of the proceeds from the sale of Bristol Zoo Gardens that's going to be moved into, ploughed into the Wild Place Project with a brand new zoo for Bristol in effect and really reimagining what the zoo of the future should be. So, yeah, that's where it's gone from growing new visitor attractions to closing one and developing another one. Kelly Molson: Yes. So it's come full circle, isn't it? We started off that quite negatively, didn't we? But actually there's some really incredible opportunities that are coming from this experience. So we're going to start kind of at the beginning part of it, though. So, like you said, Bristol Zoo closed in September 2022 after 186 years. Got absolutely phenomenal. What was the decision behind it? What was the reason for that happening? Mike Coe: Yeah, it's one of those decisions, I think if you were to ask the Trust now, they probably should have taken earlier, in my view. So for a number of years, Bristol Zoo Gardens had been its revenues have been reducing and then in decline. So it had been losing money for a number of years over the decade before it. And it's a bit like that Region Beta Paradox. Have you heard of that?  And actually, what the Region Beta Paradox says is essentially a theory that sometimes the worse things are, the better the final outcome will be because you actually act on it and you actually make a change and you do something about it. So the recovery can be a lot quicker from a much worse situation. That worse situation, of course, was COVID. Mike Coe: So that really hits the charity reserves, in effect. And really, at that point, that decision had to be taken that they could no longer take the losses from Bristol Zoo Gardens and the site itself was crumbling. So the amount of investment that would have been required to restore Bristol Gardens as a visitor attraction, that wasn't falling effectively, the infrastructure was crumbling, so it would have taken a huge amount of investment to keep the site going in a space that had reduced visitor numbers year after year after year. So that was kind of the financial and commercial decision to close it. But the other thing, of course, is that Bristol Zoo Gardens was a twelve acre site, so quite a small inner city zoo. Mike Coe: Welfare standards amongst animals have changed from where they were 186 years ago into what size enclosures animals need for their welfare now. And Bristol Zoo Gardens, great space, but unfortunately just was too small to be able to provide the levels of welfare standards that are required now in zoology. So we're over here at Wild Place, ten times bigger than the sites at Bristol Zoo Gardens and the ability to develop enclosures far bigger than we were able to be, able to do at Bristol Zoo Gardens. So it wasn't just this commercial decision that we had to close the zoo. It's also, quite rightly, an animal welfare situation. Mike Coe: And what we can offer here is much better space and the chance with the money from that, the chance to develop a brand new type of zoo over here at Wild Place, a zoo of the future, where animals that we work with are involved in our conservation projects around the world. So it's not just about putting animals in for entertainment, it's about actually the purpose of those animals in terms of conservation and their conservation status. Kelly Molson: Let's talk about that then, because I'd love to know kind of what the vision is for what you're now kind of building on and that kind of positive aspect of it. Mike Coe: Yeah. And I think we start off it is about the animals that we have in the New Bristol Zoo. And the New Bristol Zoo will be developed with the sale of Bristol Zoo Gardens over the course of the next five to ten years. And the enclosures that will be here at first are much bigger, so the animals are in a more natural environment. So almost as you're walking through the gates, you're arriving somewhere other that you're almost on an on foot safari. So, you know, the traditional type of zoo. And another controversial thing I'll say is I'm not a big fan of traditional zoos, so I'm not a massive zoo fan. Certainly the modern zoos and the way we look at it is certainly the way to move. Mike Coe: And that's making sure that there's much bigger enclosures, that you're stumbling on those animals, you're not just looking from fence to fence that you actually have to do a bit of work while you're here to see those animals on foot. So this “on foot safari”, that's going to be a theme that sort of overrides what goes on here. The species of animals that we have here are going to be involved in the conservation projects that we have around the world, be that Africa, Philippines, we have a number of projects around the world and we're going to have the species here are the species that we're involved in those conservation projects. So actually, this is just going to be an insight into the world of field conservation, our in situ work. Mike Coe: So in situ means the work you do out in the field on those projects. So this is going to be an extension of those in situ field projects that we have out there, working with the same species of animals. We're also going to have a conservation campus. So within that campus, we're going to have university students who are involved in direct conservation work. They're going to be here on site, so our visitors are going to be able to walk through that campus as part of the visitor journey. So those students are going to be there interacting with our visitors. It's going to have a breeding centre, so they're going to see the breeding work that we do both here that supports the conservation work around the world. Mike Coe: So it's that whole what we do in the field, what we do here, and the breeding centre, linking that all together on this on foot safari. So something completely different to a standard zoo, I would like to think. Kelly Molson: What a phenomenal experience for the guests that's coming along as well. Because the opportunity that they could bump into students that they can talk to about their education path and what they're doing and the conservation aspects of there, that makes that visit even better than it would be just if you are just going to visit a standard zoo. Mike Coe: Exactly that. And what we realise is that if we want to save wildlife, and our vision at Bristol Zoological Society is to save wildlife together, we realise that we can't do that in isolation on our own. It has to be together, it has to be changing behaviours of the people that come onto the site. And a large proportion of those people that come on site are young people. We attract young people. So it's changing the behaviours of those young people for them to make correct, positive conservation decisions. And you're right, you talk about them engaging with those students as they're on site. We want them to become adventurers for the day when they walk in, so they almost become a conservation hero as they leave the gates. They come in as a visitor, become an adventurer and leave the gates as a conservation hero. Mike Coe: And that's what we want to do. We want everyone to come away with this impression of what they can do at home to make real world changes. You're going to come and visit. Kelly Molson: You absolutely sold that into me. Like, I'm there. I want to be an adventurer. Mike Coe: We'll get everyone wearing those Indiana Jones style hats as they come in, so they feel the part. We'll get our public engagement team coming up with some really exciting ways to make them feel like they're suddenly out on their in situ adventure. Kelly Molson:  Perfect. I can absolutely rock that hat. And I'm sorry I interrupted you mid flow, but I was like, “Gosh, yes, I'm really feeling this”. And I was like, the buzz that there is around this is quite tantalising. Mike Coe: Exactly. And it all relies once we get the sale of Bristol Zoo Gardens, then we can really start to make this vision and become a reality. And it's much bigger than just Bristol. It's this global conservation emergency that we're in that we'll feel like we're a part of and it's great that it's in our city. Bristol is known for being quite different in the way it looks at things. We're a great city, we're an ingenious city, and it's going to be great to have a zoo that does things a little bit differently, a bit like Bristol tends to like to do. Kelly Molson: Definitely, yeah. The ethos of Bristol is definitely different. This is amazing. So an incredible vision that you have there. Genuinely, there is an excitement there. I can feel it as you talk about it and the passion for it. I just want to go back a little bit, though, because I guess it's been quite a difficult decision to make from a financial perspective, anyway. And from a heart perspective, you're going to have a lot of team that have worked at Bristol Zoo for many years. And I know you weren't there from the start of this decision making process. But how did you go about communicating these decisions to the team and what was their reaction? Mike Coe: Yeah, like I said, I wasn't there when the initial announcement that the zoo would be closing. I know that it was an incredibly difficult decision, both making that decision, but also how that was communicated with staff. And the staff are clearly the first to be told before it was made public. And you think you've got a number of staff who have been there 30, nearly 40 years at that time. So it's dealing really sensitively with all the staff, especially those that have been there that time. And then you've also, unlike, I guess, other attractions, where you probably don't have as much attachment to the product, not that I'm calling the animals a product in a museum, you don't quite have that same attachment. Mike Coe: You've got keepers that have been working, say, with the gorillas for a decade, so they've seen them grow up and work with those. So you can understand how gut wrenching it must have been at the time for those stuff and how sensitively this had to be dealt with, because it was a decision that clearly nobody wanted to take, but ultimately had to take. And it was communicating that now. I was there when the actual final dates of a date closure for Bristol Zoo Gardens was announced, the 3rd of September being the last day. So I was there and we brought everybody into a big town hall and told all the staff that 3rd of September was going to be the final day. Mike Coe: And you go through this curve of emotion, this acceptance cycle, and that first stage is real despair amongst a number of the staff there and working and developing those through that, then there's that acceptance and then realisation of how we do that. Clearly there are as we move from two zoos to one zoo, there were some people that had to move on, unfortunately. But the good thing is we managed to do most of that through voluntary redundancies. So there's very talking ones or two where people were actually made redundant. The voluntary scheme meant that a lot of people made those decisions themselves, luckily. I guess we're kind of still just on the rise of that curve now. Mike Coe: So even now, although there's this great positivity around the future, there's still people still trying to get used to having moved over from Bristol Zoo Gardens and over to the Wild Place. And we'll continue to work with those people as well to make them see the vision of the new Bristol Zoo in effect. Kelly Molson: Yeah, because my next question is general public and what their reaction was, and I guess it's a very similar reaction.Mike Coe: I think, absolutely. When you're a zoo which is at the heart of a city or a society that's a heart of a city, then you're right. It's not just that the staff that work there. Visitors have been visiting the zoo. I remember I was there throughout the final closing weeks and we had people travelling from not just around the country, literally from around the world, to say their goodbyes from Bristol Zoo Gardens, people that have been visiting for 70 years. I had one talking to and just, I guess, more stoic understanding the reasons why it was closing. But still that sense of nostalgia, and that's what came out in those last few weeks, that sense of nostalgia, what the zoo had done for the city, really, and these people as well. Mike Coe: But actually what I did get was this overwhelming sense of people understanding actually what it is time for Bristol Zoo Gardens to close. It is too small in terms of welfare and these animals and these enclosures that ultimately were just too small for them. And people got the sense that actually time moves on. And what was right for a city centre zoo back in the 18 hundreds is now not what's right for the modern world. So there was that great sense of acceptance at the end. The good thing is that Bristol Zoo Gardens will, within our plans, be reopened as a development, which will still have the parks and gardens open, so people will still be able to come and enjoy the parks and gardens. I think that's the most important thing is what people said. Mike Coe: "We still want to be able to see some of the old monuments, we still want to be able to see some of the old park." Well, they were going to be able to do that, which is really exciting. They'd be able to see the old monkey temple. A number of those items are listed. The entrance building itself is listed as well. So the entrance building is going to be turned into something called the Clifton Conservation Hub. So there'll still be conservation work. We do a lot of conservation work around the Avon Gorge and Downs wildlife project. So Avon Gorge and Downs is a site of scientific and conservation interest, while the hub of that is going to be within the entrance building when the developments finish. Mike Coe: So conservation work and wildlife conservation will still go on at Bristol Zoo Gardens, in parks and gardens, and then in the wider Avon Gorge and Downs. Kelly Molson: It's really good to hear that as well. And I guess one of the things that we always talk about from an attraction perspective is how many memories are made at a visitor attraction, regardless of whether it's a zoo or a heritage, a park, et cetera. So it's lovely that the reaction from people is we still want to be able to see these places because they've got great memories for us. We've taken our children there, we'd love to be able to go back there ourselves, and that's wonderful. And I think, on the other hand, as well, what's really good is that the message around conservation and welfare of animals is obviously a very positive one and very clear one that you've been pushing out, because that's what people have accepted about the change that's going to happen now. Kelly Molson: So that's a real positive that feeds into the vision for the new attraction. Mike Coe: Absolutely. Like I said, we ran a campaign at the end called The Zoo and You or You and the Zoo, I think it was, and it was really just people sharing all those memories and all those pictures. Like I said, understanding that actually walking with an elephant or whatever they used to do is not something they can do now, but celebrating that as something that was done in our past and being a part of that, but understanding that actually we do have to move on. Kelly Molson: Yeah, talking about moving, actually, while we're on that subject. So we've talked about the kind of the financial and the emotional decisions that have gone around this, and we've talked about communicating to the people and how from a team perspective and from the general public, let's talk about the animals, because I can only imagine that this is a logistical nightmare. How do you move a zoo? How do you move a giraffe down the road? How does it even happen? Mike Coe: Yeah, we'll come back to how do you move a giraffe, I guess. But the first off, there are literally thousands of individuals at Bristol Zoo Gardens and a number of those animals are coming with us, but the majority of those are going to other institutions. So I think the first thing to explain, and I get this asked a lot, I'm still relatively new to zoo, so it's something that I'm still learning and it's that we don't actually within zoological societies around the country, in Europe and the world, we don't own our animals, they don't belong to us. They're coordinated through a network of institutions, European Institute of Zoos and Erza have EP coordinators. Those coordinators coordinate those animals all the time between institutions because they're involved in breeding programmes. Mike Coe: So you'll get breeding recommendations and the animals will be coordinated by those coordinators from the receiving donating Zoo to the receiving zoo because of breeding recommendations that have been flagged up. So animals are always moving in between institutions anyway, those member institutions, so we don't own those animals. That said, of course, this was a number of animals moving all in one go, or a lot of animals moving won't go. Some of those animals are still remaining at Bristol Zoo Gardens while we build their new enclosures at Wild Place, and we'll move directly from Bristol Zoo Gardens over to Wild Place. So the gorillas, for instance, will be at the Bristol Zoo Gardens for a little while longer yet, and so we've built their enclosures. Mike Coe: So once those coordinators have got those recommendations of where those animals go there's, then the paperwork has to be done, those medical inspections, certain animals, depending on the size. Have to be trained for a move. So we have to train those animals before they can move, to be able to go, if they're going into crates, to be able to comfortably go into those crates and the trains to be able to do that. So there's actually, arguably, at the closure of a zoo, there was more work for the keepers than ever before. And the coordinators doing all of that work, moving them on. And we've moved on a large proportion, literally thousands of individuals. Admittedly, some of those thousands of individuals are insects and fish and things like that. That kind of bumps the numbers up a bit. Mike Coe: But you can understand there's still an incredible amount of work that has to go on between both the society giving and the one receiving the animal, between those. So all of that work goes on in the background of paperwork. Brexit god love it. Does mean that if you're moving something over to Europe, instead of having just to do one piece of documentation and paperwork, each country around Europe would require its own documentation.  So the paperwork minefield that we now have to do if we're moving them out of the UK. So a lot of ours we've tried to keep within the UK, just for those reasons as well. Mike Coe: And then, obviously, the medical checks on those animals, you can't move them if they're not healthy to move as well, the medical stuff. So I guess when you say, how do you move a giraffe? I guess then that adds even more logistical implications. What are a giraffe? About five metres tall. So I guess avoiding low bridges on a giraffe would be the most important one. But also, again, even with a giraffe, that same process of the coordinators finding the right breeding recommendations, you've also then got to have the right transport. So specially licensed transport companies that are licensed to move animals would have to be found, I guess. I've seen the crates that they moved. I think our giraffes here at Wild Place, they came from Amsterdam, I think. And the crates that they obviously move in, especially designed crates for giraffes. Mike Coe: There's probably not many of those out there that you have to try and coordinate as well. So, yeah, those big crates and the animals have to be trained to go into those crates comfortably and those moves happen. One of our animal team does have a presentation on how to move a hippo, and it is the most interesting presentation of logistics that you can possibly imagine. Kelly Molson: We need to see this presentation, pop it in the show notes. Mike Coe: How to move a hippo. Kelly Molson: That blew my mind. I've got so many thoughts about that. I hadn't actually considered how many animals would be involved in breeding programmes. So I think my mind always goes to Pandas, because it's one that's talked about quite a lot on the news. We always talk about panda breeding programmes, but yeah, I hadn't really considered the fact that the zoo, it cares for those animals, but they're not the owners of those animals and there's so many different places and variables involved in where they go and what they do next. It's crazy. Mike Coe: Yeah, and we also, obviously, I mean, our keepers have to visit those institutions that those animals are going to make sure that they're happy as well, so it's not just the coordinator. So we visit all of those centres and we review and check and make sure everything is right for those moves as well. We wouldn't let animal go unless were absolutely confident that the receiving institution had everything in place for them. Kelly Molson: Percentage wise, how many animals are coming across to the Wild Place and how many are kind of going off and going to different places. Mike Coe: So as a percentage, it's quite high, but that's because within our breeding centre, a lot of the ectotherms, insects, lizards, fish are coming across into the breeding centre, so obviously that makes a large proportion of those. And it's interesting when people think of animals, they always think of the large, cute, those iconic, charismatic animals, but actually that's a very small proportion of the numbers that are held in zoo. So of those animals so we've really only got the gorillas, I guess you would say, moving across immediately over to Wild Place. And largely because, as I said right at the start, we want to be working with those species that were involved in our conservation projects around the world. Mike Coe: So a lot of the animals that come to Wild Place will be from other institutions where they're animals that we're working in, those areas that are critically endangered, that actually have a conservation value to be in zoos. They're not just there for entertainment purposes, like I said. So very few of the animals, the gorillas being the prime example of one where we are working with those in the field and endangered, so we are bringing those across. So a lot of them will not come from Bristol Zoo, but from elsewhere. Kelly Molson: I guess you need the time to be able to build the enclosures as well for them in a responsible way. And this is the final kind of piece of the puzzle, is planning for the development, like, how are you kind of developing the existing Wild Place site to accommodate all of the new things that you want to do? Mike Coe: And it is like a massive jigsaw with 100,000 moving parts of trying to make sure that we move the right things at the right time, open up the right areas at the right time to make sure that the visitor flows work. That the infrastructure that's required because obviously, as we open up large areas of Wild Place, we know there'll be an influx of visitors. You need things like car parking, toilets, cafes, all of those sort of secondary things that make sure that the visitor can have a great day. It's not just about building enclosures as well. So it's been a really big piece of work. We're currently doing some master planning work. We're into more detailed design on that master plan now, which really starts to map out all of these sorts of things, visitor flows, the conservation model of where everything's going. Mike Coe: Our species list has already been defined, so we know which species are coming across and we've published those. So things like within the Central African Forest, which will be our first area. The reason we clearly need to put the Central African Forest area in first is because we got the gorillas that we need to move across. They need a home to go to. Conservation campus is something we really want to get in the early stages as well, because we want to get those students here and engaging and with the breeding centre in there as well, to get those animals all off site from Bristol Zoo Gardens as well. So some of this is dictated by the logistics of it and some of it is dictated by the need to improve the infrastructure to deliver the visitors. Mike Coe: One of our core visions is to be sustainable, revenue sustainable, so we have to be able to have the secondary spends from the visitors coming through, because that's the money that's ploughed back into the conservation work in the field. And we do give a proportion of that money to our direct conservation in those countries and our native work as well. One of the big pieces of work we do is native conservation. So crayfish is a big part of the work. We're doing invasive species another one. So a lot of native work. And the great thing about Wild Place, unlike Bristol Zoo, it has semi ancient woodland, it's got wetlands, so we've got the chance to talk about native woodland and communicate native woodland in a way that we didn't maybe we didn't know so much of it at Bristol Zoo Gardens. Kelly Molson: It's such an exciting opportunity. I was thinking earlier when you were talking about the animals and the logistics and the paperwork and all of those things, I was thinking, there's going to be attractions, professionals that are listening to this going, "I don't want Mike's job. I'm going to stick to my theme park. I'm going to stick to my heritage site. I'm going to stick with my museum artefacts, because that all seems a lot simpler." But actually, when you started to talk about the planning and the master planning and how you're having to plan things, you have to think about things now that might not be developed for like five or ten years down the line and how that all works together. That's really exciting. Mike Coe: It is exciting. I was brought in to work on the commercials of closing the zoo and looking at some of the future stuff. And I'm sure there'll be the more detailed planning paperwork stuff. We've got teams working on that, so it's definitely not me. There's a number of people, the animal teams, they've done an incredible job with these animal movements. I wouldn't even know where to start with some of the things that they've been doing. They've been absolutely incredible, the whole team. So, yeah, I'm a very small cog in a very big machine here.Kelly Molson: A very important cog, though, Mike, for sure. Don't play it down. Thank you. I've loved understanding about this process and I feel real, genuine excitement about what you're developing down there at The Wild Place. I think that's going to be an absolutely phenomenal opportunity for the whole of the region to come and get involved, and I'll definitely be travelling down and seeing how that's developing over you. So thank you for coming on to sharing on the podcast today, we always ask our guests if they have a book that they'd like to recommend our listeners.  Kelly Molson: It can be anything, it can be something that you love from a personal aspect. We've had all sorts of suggestions recently from marketing books. We had a marketing book on the last podcast and we had cook books from Abbey at Castle Howard. So, yeah, what have you got for us? Mike Coe: Yeah, it's funny you asked this question. I'm not a massive reader of books, so I was doing my MBA about three, four years ago and I was thinking, when you asked that question, which management book? And even when I was doing the management course, all the management books and theories that are out there, porter's theory, you got 1 minute manager how to influence people. And whilst I was doing that, I was thinking of the book whilst I was doing the MBA that I read and thought to my child, Charlie, who was about six or seven at the time, and I remember reading it and thinking, "You know what, this is possibly the best management advice that I've ever given."Mike Coe: And I'm reading it from a children's book to my seven year old child, and that's a book that we'll all know, and it's over Oh, The Places You'll Go, which is a Doctor Seuss book. Do you remember it? Yeah. And I was just thinking, like even when I was reading out some of the quotes to Charlie and thinking," Actually, this is what management books are trying to summarise, but never seem to do it." Try 300 words to do it. Quotes like, you're on your own and you know what you know, and you are the one who will decide where you'll go, that you're in charge of your destiny. And things about that tells you to make mistakes, except you don't, because sometimes you won't. Mike Coe: I'm afraid that sometimes you'll play lonely games too, games you can't win because you'll play against you, but actually you're going to be the one holding you back in that as well. So there's loads of amazing management advice in other places you'll go, and it's something that I recommend that everybody gives to their child when they're going off to secondary school or even off to university as well, because there's some incredible quotes in there. You've got brains in your head, you've got feet in your shoes, you can steer yourself in any direction you'll choose. And I think that's kind of how I've lived my career up to date, is through the advice of other places you'll go and making those decisions yourself and sticking by those decisions, and the world is there to explore. Mike Coe: So it comes back to your thing about, where would I like to spend a month while Africa and going back there? Because that's the place I'd love to go again. Kelly Molson: But you're not taking Charlie with you? Mike Coe: No, he'll have read the book and be on his own journey by then, bless him. Kelly Molson: What I really liked is that you were quoting that book, so I know how many times you've reread that book to your son, which is lovely, and I was smiling. It's actually brought a little bit of a tears while because one of my really good friends has bought that book. She bought that book for my daughter when she was born. We've not read my daughter's 18 months old, it's not going to go in so much. Sitting on her shelf next to her bed, and I look at it every night. It's kind of the last thing that catches my eye before she goes in the cot. And when you said that book, I was like, “Oh, yes, that's just such a great book.”Kelly Molson: Listeners, as ever, we give a copy of this book away, so if you would like to win a copy of it, head over to our Twitter account, retweet Twitter this episode announcement and you could be in with a chance of winning. Mike's, fantastic book. Mike Coe:  That could be my controversial opinion that, Oh, The Places You'll Go! is the greatest management book ever written. Kelly Molson: I think maybe more people who would agree with you that on a pat than Paris one a slightly less controversial. Thank you for coming on and sharing that. It's been wonderful to talk to you. Where's the best place to find out all about what's happening? Mike Coe: Yeah. So if you go on to either our websites for Wild Place and the Old Bristol Zoo Gardens website is still there, and look at our vision and our future, and all of the information on the master planning work that's going on there and the vision in the future are there, and please come and visit us and see us here. We're right at the start of the journey, but over the next five to ten years, we're going to really transform this place.Kelly Molson: I don't think you're going to have any problem getting any of our listeners to come and visit. Mike, thanks again for joining us. Mike Coe: Thanks, Kelly.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends January 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.castlehoward.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbi-ollive-411509171/https://www.channel4.com/programmes/castle-howard-through-the-seasonsCastle Howard's love story with China - as told by Abbigail Ollive Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in, or working with, visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson.In today's episode, I speak with my very first returning guest, Abbigail Ollive, Head of Marketing, Sales, and Programming at Castle Howard, the stately home and visitor attraction in North Yorkshire. Abbi takes us on a journey through the seasons at Castle Howard as she explains just what it's like to film a TV production at a visitor attraction as she shares her advice for other attractions that are thinking about doing the same.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the user channels by searching Skip the Queue.I am very excited to have Abbigail Ollive back on the podcast today.Abbigail Ollive: To be the first returner. It mustn't have put you off too much first time round.Kelly Molson: Well, I think it's more like I didn't put you off, because you were episode six of season one, which was all the way back in 2019. And I didn't ask people icebreaker questions then, so you might regret this after this. Who knows? First one, what is the strangest or worst gift that you've ever received?Abbigail Ollive: Last Christmas, my partner basically took Christmas as an opportunity to solve anything I'd been moaning about. So my Christmas presents were things like those little hand warmers, because I'd obviously been complaining that my hands were cold. And I'd been complaining about my drive to work here at Castle Howard in rural North Yorkshire sometimes being a little bit hairy. So my Christmas present was winter tires and a four by four driving experience to try, which at the time I was like, I really would've loved a baking experience or a pizza making course or something, and I was pretty grumpy about going.But it actually turned out to be a really excellent gift and I had a fab time. I feel like I'm qualified now to drive people through a field or through a stream if they need, and I know how to use my ridiculous rural vehicle. So I was a bit grumpy about it, because I was like, it's very kind but it feels like you really wanted to come and do this.Kelly Molson: It's quite thoughtful though, isn't it? That's quite a well thought out gift.Abbigail Ollive: I guess so.Kelly Molson: He's been listening. He's just interpreted it in a slightly more original way than you were expecting.Abbigail Ollive: See, that sounds very ungrateful, doesn't it? And I did have a fab time, but I have dropped some hints this year about... I guess I've decided to complain about different stuff. In case that gets resolved in a different way.Kelly Molson: I'm running out of mascara.Abbigail Ollive: My shoulders are really tense. I think a massage might really help me this year.Kelly Molson: Like it. Yeah, I'm running out of mascara, if anyone's listening. I need some of that on my shopping list. Spa day would be excellent. My shoulders feel tense too. I like this subtle hint dropping.If you could only listen to one album for the rest of your life, what would it be?Abbigail Ollive: Whenever people ask me like, what's your taste in music? It's just very eclectic. And at the minute I am listening on repeat to Self Esteem, who I think is just amazing. I don't know if you are at all familiar with her. She's called Rebecca, she's from Rotherham, where my dad is from. I don't think many pop stars have come out of Rotherham, South Yorkshire. But give her album a listen.We saw her at a festival when she was quite up and coming, and she's just done Jools Holland and is now on a bigger tour next year. We booked again to see her. And it's just hugely empowering. I think for younger women, teenagers kind of finding their way through what can be quite a complex time, I just think her lyrics and her whole approach to empowerment is really, really inspiring.I don't know whether that'd be the one I'd listened to forever, but it is on repeat in my car on my journey to work constantly at the moment. And that's my top tip I think. Give her a listen. She's very cool.Kelly Molson: Did you combine that album with the off-road driving as well at the weekend to give you a little bit of an extra boost?Abbigail Ollive: No, I think maybe empowerment but, yes. Women driving through fields in pickups.Kelly Molson: Awesome. Good response. Okay, final one. If you could bring back any fashion trend, what would it be?Abbigail Ollive: I think I was meant to be in the 1950s. I think that kind of grease styling is... I'd love to just look like that every day, really, if I could get away with it and if I had time to properly do my hair in rollers and all of that jazz. I think that's the period I'd probably go back to and I think be quite into, that sort of retro 50s. Really bright. I like the bright, vibrant... I'd happily drive an American pink Cadillac through the country roads of North Yorkshire.Kelly Molson: I remember this about you. You're all about colour. I do remember this about you when we met in person. You love a colour and you love a patterned dress, an excellently patterned dress.Abbigail Ollive: Yeah, I do. And I wish I could suit a hat better. Some people are like... My brother's always in a very cool hat, but I just don't suit it. I think it's the fringe. The fringe, glasses, hat combo is one I can't pull off.Kelly Molson: Fringe with a wooly hat is really difficult, isn't it? Because it just pushes it down into your eyes. I'd like to be a hat person as well. I feel like people that wear hats, they just exude confidence. Do you know what I mean? Just have that... They walk with confidence. They walk high with a hat on. I'd quite like that too.That's good choices. All right, what about your unpopular opinion, Abbi, because we've never had one of these from you.Abbigail Ollive: No, we haven't. And I'm sure I've got plenty I could share, I mean, my initial instinct with this was, I would never be upset if I didn't ever hear an Oasis song again, but that's not the one I'm going to go with. Sorry.It's a podcast related one. I thought I'd be topical. I really hate comedians on podcasts. I just can't be doing with all the trying to be funny and all the chat in between what it is they're actually meant to be talking about. I love the foodie podcast, but I just want them to cut to the chase and I want to hear somebody talk about something they're knowledgeable about. Maybe I just don't really comedians in general, but on a podcast that's my unpopular opinion.Kelly Molson: Do you think it's because they're trying a bit too hard because that's their job and they're trying to... If a supplier comes on and they're trying to plug their thing, they're trying to plug their I'm funny, really?Abbigail Ollive: I think it's just like... I was going to try and not name names, but I'm quite a foodie and I like a foodie podcast and I think maybe I've realized that actually I want to hear about the food and not all the chat that surrounds it. So yeah, comedians on podcasts.Kelly Molson: All right, good one. Glad I'm not funny or I'd be right [inaudible 00:06:53].Abbigail Ollive: Well, I'm not either, so we'll have no comedy. We'll just get the questions.Kelly Molson: That's it. We're done now. We're done with anything humorous for the rest of the episode. Excellent. Thanks for setting the tone.Abbi, just for our listeners that don't know of you, I'm sure there's not many, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do.Abbigail Ollive: I at the moment am very fortunate to be kind of running the visitor attraction side of things at Castle Howard. So anybody who hasn't heard of Castle Howard, Castle Howard is a stately home in North Yorkshire. It was designed by Sir John Vanbrugh in 1699, so it's a historic house open as a visitor attraction, but also sits within a 9,000 acre estate. It's still home to the Howard family, they are directly my line managers, and Castle Howard's opened 364 days a year as an attraction.But I think it's also a really interesting place. I arrived here knowing that I was coming to be involved in a visitor attraction, but I think maybe it was more of a pleasant surprise that we're actually foresters and farmers and we have a holiday park and holiday cottages and a farm shop and a garden centre and all the catering and retail outlets as well.I think in total it's nine different businesses, and my role kind of heads up marketing and events and programming and sales and that kind of visitor experience side of things. I'm not actually being asked to be responsible for the farming and forestry, you'll be relieved to hear, but it's also just unlocks so many stories that as a marketer at heart, I guess, is really exciting on a daily basis.We're not a charity, so all the income generated by footfall and visitors paying for an admission ticket goes directly into the restoration and heritage of the building and the listed landscape.I've been here for just over five years, so I'm just in the middle of Christmas number six. It's a joyous time to be at a place like Castle Howard, when it's all decked out for Christmas and we're welcoming literally thousands of visitors a day over this festive season.Big day today. It's a kind of rainy, North Yorkshire, midweek day, but we've got 11 coaches here and they're all having a fabulous time. And I've just had a message saying, can someone come and help with the Queues in the bauble emporium? So that's the kind of thing that can occur on an hourly basis.But yeah, I'm Yorkshire, so I haven't actually moved very far. Not deliberately, but just because stuff's come up here, and it's a gorgeous place in the world to be. I've got a little boy, so living in the countryside and having quite an outdoorsy life really suits us. My background's in theatre, but theatre marketing and comms, so did 10 years in theater before moving across into visitor attractions, which is just a theatre of a different kind, I think.Kelly Molson: It is. It's a show, isn't it? You're creating a theatre for people that come and visit. And that leads us a little bit to what we're going to talk about today, really, a show of a slightly different kind.I think there's been a bit of a run of programs like this. I'm talking about programs like the Secret Life of the Zoo at Chester Zoo, Inside the Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo. There's been quite a lot of zoo related TV programs on recently that give you a bit of a snapshot of behind the scenes. I think One Zoo Three was the other one from Paradise Wildlife Park. But you have been involved in shooting TV programs for Channel 4, called Castle Howard: Through the Seasons. Tell us a little bit about what the TV series is, and then tell us what on earth made you decide to be part of a TV program.Abbigail Ollive: I suppose dialing back a little bit from the TV show we've just been making this year is... I guess Castle Howard's one of the original screen tourism destinations and has been in some pretty iconic period dramas. It's very well known as Brideshead Revisited, both the 1981 Granada TV show and then the later movie in 2008. And we had our Bridgerton moment, so series one, episode six, or episode sex, as most people know it in Bridgerton, was all films here at Castle Howard. And I could definitely tell you plenty of stories from that few weeks of my life that I'll never forget.But I think we're kind of used to being a location, and Castle Howard plays its own part in a period drama. It's almost a character in its own rights, and we've been in plenty of them. And we've also filmed the Arctic Monkeys music video here from their most recent album, and we've also played host to an American TV reality show, which was... I describe it as kind of Love Island with a Regency twist, which recently someone said should be the name of a cocktail, which I [inaudible 00:11:57]. That was an American reality TV show.But I think it's the first time then that we've actually considered seriously and gone ahead with us being the subject of what is being filmed, and I think that's the big difference really for us with an observational documentary or, ob doc, as it's known in the business.There were a few things really that made us decide to go ahead with that, and you've mentioned already a couple of those really reassuring series that happened, mostly zoo related, that made us feel like actually there's a real warmth and positivity to how they're not trying to stitch you up, they're trying to tell a really positive story about your people and your attraction.I think that's maybe changed over the last few years. So we'd seen Chatsworth go first really, they opened their doors and did a year in the life at Chatsworth, and that actually ended up being during the pandemic, so it was a very unusual year in the life of Chatsworth, in that a lot of the time it was during lockdown. But even through that challenging period of time, when we watched it as viewers, we could see that that team had really taken a lot of care to tell Chatsworth stories and to be really respectful and positive about the whole estate.I think that that was a huge reassurance for us. I think in the past I've had loads of filming inquiries over my time here and we've really avoided the sort of fly on the wall documentaries. I think there's been a general perception and nervousness that they want to stitch you up. And also, for me, the format only really works if you have the buy-in and the involvement of Nick and Vicky Howard, who are the custodians of this place, and have them authentically involved. And I think they had seen in years gone by maybe some not so positive examples and that had put them off the idea.I think we started talking to the ITN team who'd been working with Chatsworth during the pandemic, and it was a real slow burn. It was about building that relationship and having meetings with them, them getting to know me and the Howards, and talking really about what the stories were that we wanted to tell.They came to us originally as part of their Christmas series they were doing, so last year when we had Narnia as our Christmas theme, they made a four part series across four different houses and we were one of those, so it was a more intensive Christmas at Castle Howard experience first off, and that's been quite different to then them coming back and being here all year.But I think it's definitely, I'd say, we said no quite a lot before eventually we said maybe, and then over the course of probably a year of meetings and building trust and really bottoming out what we all want to get out of it, we eventually said yes. And I think in that time as well we'd seen things released like Secret Life at the Zoo.I think our other main concern or nervousness about saying yes was we were sort of waiting for a vintage year at Castle Howard. We knew that coming out of the pandemic, everything's been challenging and difficult and we felt like, maybe next year or in a couple years time we'll be doing a really big significant bit of restoration to a monument or we've got plans to reinstate some of our burnt out rooms after the fire that Castle Howard suffered during the war.I think we felt like there's going to be a big story to tell, and we better hold off for that moment in Castle Howard's history before we let the TV cameras in. And I think actually what changed that was the pandemic and thinking, well, actually, in any kind of normal or abnormal year we have amazing people, we have amazing stories to tell. Sometimes it's those smaller stories of truly getting under the skin of the life in a country estate like this that viewers will ultimately really enjoy. So we stopped holding off for that perfect moment and went for it.Kelly Molson: It's interesting though, because you're thinking about, I guess, once you agree to go ahead with something like this, you are thinking constantly about, how entertaining is this actually going to be? Is just our day to day stuff that goes on all the time, is that enough for people? Are they going to actually tune in and watch it? And how is that going to... I guess there's a thought all the time about how we're going to be portrayed and how will that come across. So if you hold out for this room needs renovation or looking after, that gives you a focus that will detract from just some of the normal stuff that would be happening.Abbigail Ollive: We actually started with ITN and Channel 4 in 2020, and we were trying to pull off a Christmas in the middle of COVID. When the tiering system and all that business came in, we couldn't go ahead, like many attractions and houses. So we started making a TV program about... I was billed on this... I was definitely shown as head of saving Christmas, and then we had to cancel it, so we canceled the whole thing and we took the difficult decision actually that it wasn't going to be the show we wanted it to be. We mutually agreed, really, to pull out of that, because we didn't want a show about trying to make a big Christmas happen and then the government saying, "You're in the wrong tier, you can't open," and a show of about how disappointing that was. So we took that decision.Actually, that was a gamble at the time because I thought maybe that would be that done, really, but they agreed to come back the following year and make Christmas in Narnia as a documentary. I think it's definitely had its ups and downs over quite a period of time. So, again, that build of trust and them getting to know us during the year that didn't happen. I think they saw enough potential to think, actually, we'll come back and go again. But all of that's really challenging when they and us have put budget and resource into a whole period of filming that we then pull the plug on.Kelly Molson: Yeah, of course. And by no fault of your own. Actually, there was nothing that you really could do about it. You made the right decision at the time.I guess I just want to step back a little bit, because you said that you... I can't remember if you said that you were approached by them or if you approached them to talk about it, and how do you work out what the focus of the TV show will be about?Abbigail Ollive: I'd been approached by quite a number of observational documentary companies, and I'd met with quite a few, and it was this exec producer who'd been working with Chatsworth, and we'd seen a bit of what they'd done at Chatsworth, that made us agree and further that conversation with this particular production company, which is ITN for Channel 4.We've been approached a lot, and continue to be, actually, and I think, like you said, at the beginning, there's a real rise, isn't there, in these sort of observational documentaries at places within the visitor attractions sector. So we didn't actively go out to try and do this, I suppose we were courted and approached and took a little bit of persuading.Kelly Molson: I guess everyone that's going to be part of this has to be really comfortable with being on camera, right, because they're going to be recording for a whole year at your venue, so you've got to get used to people being around, you've got to be able to run your events around while all this filming is happening as well. So it's not a quick decision to make at all by any means.Abbigail Ollive: No, there's a lot to think about, actually. And I think we made sure we'd properly thought about that and met and bashed a lot of that out internally before we started. I think the things that made us most nervous were around control and editorial control and how much of that you just have to relinquish and how much we would be allowed to input into the storytelling and storyboarding. I think there was that, but also the ability for us to resource it.Like you've said, it's no small thing to take on. We're quite a small team, we're still doing everything we need to do in a normal year, pulling off big events and big projects, and having a film crew with you three to four days a week every week of pretty much a year, is quite intense.I think what we tried to do to overcome that was before anybody had a camera put in front of them, we tried to do a really good amount of kickoff meetings with all stakeholders, with the producers. We were really, really clear with them about our ambitions and the key messages we wanted to communicate by having a year in the life at Castle Howard filmed. It was an opportunity for us to communicate that real conservation aim and the fact we have a conservation deficit, we're not a charity, it was a really good opportunity for us to communicate where visitors' admission fees go.It's really powerful to actually see somebody restoring a chimney or repainting windows, and understand what resource has to go into that. And that's across the board, across the whole estate. So I think sometimes that's hard to communicate, actually, with visitors, but having this mass market platform to do that.We were really, really clear about what we wanted to get out of it and what actually goes into running a rural estate and managing that in the 21st century coming out of the pandemic with all the wider world landscape going on as well around us. That was really important, actually, that we felt respected and like the TV crew and their producers understood what we wanted to get out of it. I think that's really helped throughout the whole year, that they can go, "This scene that we're filming now, that really relates and helps tell that story from your objectives." So yeah, that was certainly helpful.Kelly Molson: That's great, isn't it? That they're so aligned with your objectives that they're actually highlighting things that reference back to them as you're shooting. Because sometimes you might think that gets discussed at the top and then it gets parked and then we might not think about that again until it gets to editing stage and by that point there's so much content, how are they going to really get the message across that we want them to? And I guess that comes forward to one of the questions about that content and the editing process and how much of that were you involved in as you go through the filming.You've had those initial conversations about objectives, but were there any times where something was happening and they were shooting, and in your head you're watching this thing unfold in front of you going, "This cannot go out on telly, and they're really going to want this to go out on telly and that's not going to happen at all"?Abbigail Ollive: That has changed throughout the year. We've all learned a lot as the year has progressed. We started very structured and I planned out everything to within an inch of it's life. For last Christmas I kind of diarised everything the film crew were going to be attending, made sure we had pre-meetings with everybody involved, made sure departments were all on board and had key messages and understood what we were trying to get out of every scene. I pretty much storyboarded the whole episode, and I remember the producer saying to me, "We don't normally get quite this level of input from the team on the ground."I think I'm just a bit of a control freak, because I can't have people just wandering around with a camera, who knows what they'll discover. But actually I think what I quickly discovered is that that doesn't always make the best TV, and they're experts, they're really good at what they do, and I just needed to learn to trust that we were all actually aiming for the same outcome. They weren't trying to sneak around and find stuff that I didn't want to be filmed.Actually, as the year's gone on, I think by the time we got to the Christmas episode, which they only left last week and are busy editing that now to turn it around, they knew the Castle Howard team so well and our team knew the Channel 4 team so well and are so used to them being around, it just has needed a lot less input from me and my team. They really had a sense of workflows around who's responsible for what. They felt like an extension of our team as the year has gone on and we've really built that trust, so I had no issue then with them kind of going off and filming something happening without me being present, because I'd learned to really trust them. I can't really do this chat without mentioning Peacockgate.Kelly Molson: Please.Abbigail Ollive: I think that's an example really early on where it was a day where on my schedule we were having a historic paint specialist scraping off layers of the paint on Castle Howard's windows to try and discover what the original amber colour would be, because we're now in the process of repainting all of the external woodwork, which needed doing, and white paint didn't actually exist then and so was never the colour that Castle Howard would've been painted on the windows and woodwork.We had this amazing guy doing his historical paint scraping, which is what I had the Channel 4 crew focused on, because I thought that would make a very interesting restoration story. And then got the call from World War III that appeared to be kicking off in the car park because it was breeding season for our peacocks. We've got about 20 peacocks on the estate and, well, we think there was a male interloper to our peacock gang. I don't know where he came from, but this male peacock was very rowdy and very randy, and was seeing his reflection in cars, so in the visitor car park. Any kind of car, especially if it was a dark colour or blue and was clean. So luckily my car was always very safe, it's never clean. It was seeing its reflection and trying to attack what it thought was a rival peacock.I've got the person who looks after our security on high alert trying to basically chase a peacock out of the car park, and people very concerned that both staff cars and visitor cars were going to get damaged. So this was all kicking off and I was like, "Right, everybody keep the Channel 4 team focused on the windows. Do not let them come anywhere near what's occurring up here." Because I could see our head garden running around with what can only be described as a giant butterfly net, like something a Victorian explorer, trying to literally catch and net a peacock.Anyway, it escalated fairly quickly and the peacock got onto one of our staff cars and smashed in the back windscreen. So it became actually not that funny quite quickly, because then we were suddenly into a really difficult scenario. The person involved was very upset, as you can imagine, and from an animal welfare point of view we didn't want to do anything to the peacock that... This is during visitor opening hours and, of course, on the day where we had the Rolls Royce Society coming on a trip. So we then suddenly had to pull off people from various parts of the attraction to go and be Rolls Royce security. They didn't even notice the peacock, they thought we were giving them such an amazing service, they were delighted. They couldn't believe the amount of security we have in our car park.So, all this was kicking off, and we had a couple of emergency senior management meetings assembled that day to decide what ultimately the different options were. And in this meeting we discussed what should we do about the Channel 4 film crew, and everybody's instinct was, we're now involved with insurers, the insurers are saying, "It's a wild animal, so we can't really help you." But we'd just put on social media in National Gardening Week the week before that the head gardener has names for all the peacocks and has hand reared them, so there was kind of an insurance argument going on.We love the peacocks, and visitors absolutely love the peacocks, and they make Castle Howard really unique, so it's really difficult when you've told that story.It was like Jurassic Park, I'm not joking. It was absolutely carnage. All the peacocks then got wind of the fact that someone was trying to catch one of the crew and they started... There's a video from inside the main house, which Nick Howard took, of them all lined up on the windows pecking the glass. And I was thinking, they're now going to actually smash in the windows. They just went feral.But in this meeting we had this big debate then. This is all quite unusual, I guess, maybe not on a Tuesday in whatever it was, April, May. And I brought it up in this meeting, I said, "What are we going to do about Channel 4? We're not going to be able to keep this secret, really. We have to decide whether it's something where happy to let them film and cover, what's it's reality, it's what's going on."And Vicky Howard, to her credit, she said, "I think it's going to make excellent TV. If you're doing a year in the life at Castle Howard, you want to show some of the slightly more quirky things that go on." And it was reality, it was what happening. So we made the call to their exec producer and explained what was going on, and then obviously you won't be surprised to hear in episode one, which was aired week before last, the historic restoration of the windows does not make the cut, but the whole story of the peacock, which went from the sublime to the ridiculous over the next few days, does make the cut, and we've now got peacock merchandise in the gift shop for Christmas, and he's famous.Kelly Molson: You capitalised on every element. I love it.Abbigail Ollive: Yeah, we have. I think that's a good example. You've asked how... At the point where we go, I think we need to relinquish control. I can't storyboard this within an inch of its life. I can't actually control everything I want them to film. And this is going to make great TV.Kelly Molson: I mean, it makes great TV, but it also makes a great talk. I'm not going to lie listeners, I have heard this story before and I had to go on to speak after Abbi shared this with the room, so you can imagine just how my talk bummed the room. Outdone by a peacock. Thank you.Abbigail Ollive: I didn't think we were doing Secret life of the Zoo here, but as it turned out.Kelly Molson: Who knew? It's a brilliant story. I think what you said is, you just at some point have to relinquish control, because it is going to make good telly. It's a bonkers thing that happened that day, you had no way of... There was no part of planning that that was going to happen. It wasn't a normal thing that happens every day. Yes, you've got peacocks, but they don't normally go feral and start smashing up cars. What could have made for a better TV moment than that?Other than Peacockgate, is there anything else that surprised you about the process of the filming?Abbigail Ollive: Maybe that the people you think are going to be great characters sometimes aren't, and those who are really reluctant to feature and would naturally run a mile if you try to put them in front of a TV camera, often make the best TV. I think finding your stars and the really authentic people who are incredibly passionate about what they do. And in a place like Castle Howard those are people around every corner, people who are been working here for four generations and have amazing passion and connection with the place. And then those people who have really unusual skills, like my paint specialist, or people who are just doing incredibly niche things.I think it's not hard to find the stories, but I think it was that, really. There were people who I was trying to navigate the cameras away from and then there was really willing people who... I put myself in that category, I didn't mind at all being on film, but I think I just come across as a Blue Peter presenter, and actually there are funnier, more authentic, lovely people shining through on the series that we had to coerce a little bit more into being involved.I think that, again, it all comes back to the thing I said earlier about building trust. Our producers had a really good instinct for that. I think they managed really skillfully to get under the skin of the organisation, and by relinquishing control a bit and letting them do what they do really well and trusting their judgment, they ended up putting some of our people and scenarios and stories on TV that I definitely wouldn't have storyboarded, I don't think.Kelly Molson: I guess we talked about editing and control and stuff and relinquishing that a little bit earlier, but the series is out now, we'll give everyone the dates and we'll tell them where they can find it in a little while, but did you get the opportunity to watch it before it's been out live for people?Abbigail Ollive: It was a really small team of us who had a low res proof and we were allowed to, within the contract, check all of the facts and also have an opinion and push back on anything we thought might be reputationally damaging. And actually we changed a few facts and corrected people on some stuff. But I think we've been really pleased, actually, with the way in which it was edited and we haven't pushed back all that much.I think being able to watch it and absorb it a couple of times before giving the sign off, has been a really helpful layer. There were no massive surprises then when it's aired to a million people on TV, because there's already been a layer of fact checking. For me, that's about making sure people's job titles are correct or they're referred to in the right way. I don't want someone to have put a lot of time and effort into a filming sequence and then be called the wrong thing or credited in the wrong way, so I had that layer of editorial input. But ultimately what ends up in and what ends up not in is totally up to them.I think that's just one of the learnings, really. It's about managing people's expectations. The dog festival we do every year is a good example. We spent a whole weekend, and actually the weeks leading up to it, covering that as a story and lots of filming, lots of people being asked to do bits on camera and the various suppliers and providers we had at that big event, and it didn't make the cut at all. It's just because if they're here for the whole year, they decide, probably because of the peacock, actually, but they decide what flows in terms of their narrative, and we have to just manage people's expectations in that. Helpful for me to see it, so I can also do that, because I don't want everyone sat at home on a Saturday night watching for their bit and me knowing it's not in there.Kelly Molson: God, can you imagine? So you imagine that your paint history guy ready for his big moment, and then the peacock takes over. Yeah, that's an awful.Abbigail Ollive: I think internal communication, and I'm sort spending a lot of time, or have spent a lot of time, persuading people to be involved in filming, and then I have to do the bit of time explaining to people that, thanks for going above and beyond to organise that thing so we could film it, actually it's now not in the show.But I think one of the other things that it's maybe, I don't know if it's a surprise or not, but Castle Howard and a year in the life here is a microcosm for what's happening in the real world. And one of the other things we discussed quite a bit off camera as a senior team was how much we sugarcoat our narrative and want to look amazing and brilliant and positive, and in the end we decided it's better to be really transparent. You see our senior management team then in meetings with the cameras in the room, talking about how visitor numbers haven't been what we forecasted over the summer and cost of living crisis and the things that are happening in the real world.Because I think the risk was is that people would maybe watch this and think, "Well, they've got no grip on reality and what the challenges are that people are facing." So I think we had to just be very authentic and real.And we did debate that quite a lot, actually, because it's perhaps a slightly more exposing or brave thing to go, "Well, yeah, come into the senior management meeting, we're going to discuss the figures, we're going to discuss the reforecast. This is why we think numbers have perhaps dropped off. This is what we're going to do about it." And I think, hopefully, that gives viewers the sense of what goes into the running of the business.You see our, amazingly, they agreed to be filmed, you see our Ukrainian refugee family arriving in an estate cottage next week on the autumn episode, and it reflects what's happening on the estate here is what's happening in the rest of the world. And unbelievably as well, some of it's, like you said, some of it's luck and you couldn't plan exactly where the cameras were going to be at what point, but they were filming a senior management meeting at the moment where the announcement came through of the Queen's death, so they film the reaction to that as it's happening. And that could have happened at 10:00 at night when nobody was even in the building.Some of it is luck and a lot is planned, but it really is a reflection, I think, on the mood of the nation and what else is happening in the wider sector and political landscape and everything else. So I think, again, how I approached it was, we've got all these great stories to tell and this is who I want in it and what I want to feature, but actually as life happens and as the year progressed, you couldn't have planned half the things that have ended up in the show.Kelly Molson: No, not at all. But it does give it that authenticity about this is real, this is actually happening and this is our lives. It's not just a TV show.One thing that struck me, actually, was, when I was watching, there was a moment where one of the senior management teams said, "Look, I think we rule out the fact that overseas visitors are not coming. That's it." And it really made me think back about the last time you came on the podcast, which was in 2019, and when you came on then it was talking about the love affair that Castle Howard has with China and the amount of visitors that were driving through from a famous wedding that you'd had at the castle. And I just thought that is a complete and utter contrast, isn't it, to the things that we are now talking about now and that process and that experience that you've been through to get to this point.Abbigail Ollive: Because some of those foundations that we've really relied upon in terms of generating income, like our Chinese market, when that rug's pulled from under you, I think it's made us be maybe a bit more brave and risk taking in grasping opportunities that maybe we wouldn't have done in 2019. And I'd say this filming project is one of those, I absolutely put that in the category. We're in a position where we know some of those income streams aren't coming back, so putting ourselves in front of a huge audience and grasping that PR opportunity this year, I think is a direct result of how the world's changed in the last couple of years.Kelly Molson: Yeah, for sure. So, reflecting on the experience that you've been through, and it has literally just finished, you said that that they're now hastily editing the Christmas episode to go out soon, or winter episode, what advice would you give to other attractions that are thinking maybe we'll do it, maybe we'll start to have those conversations?Abbigail Ollive: Hopefully got a few nuggets. And also really happy to talk to anybody who is in the process of going into this, having now had some lived experience of it. But I think if you're open to filming in the first place, having clear contact details on the website. For location filming, and obviously this kind of thing as well, we produced a filming brochure, which is a PDF and a physical brochure, to kind of sell Castle Howard. Whilst this observational documentary obviously came to us as an opportunity, we're actively trying to sell ourselves as a filming location.I think reaching out to... If you've watched a program and you've really loved it, there's always credits at the end and you can kind of say, "Well, that's a really good example of something I'd love to replicate in my own workplace," and tracking down those people and setting up meetings and chats.Obviously we're part of the treasure houses group, there's 10 treasure houses that are privately owned stately homes in the country and we do a lot as a collective. We're attending a filming exhibition in London together called Focus in a couple of weeks time, and, as a group, making sure we're in those places, meeting the location managers, meeting the people in the industry, starting to form those relationships.The Christmas series this year that Channel 4 are doing, again, it features of the treasure houses and different ones to last year, so we're a repeat, I guess, in that it's winter for us, it's not necessarily just about Christmas. But then you'll see [inaudible 00:41:26] and Holkham as well. And Holkham were kind of going at it second time round, and Harewood for the first time.We've shared a lot of knowledge and talked a lot really about how we've approached it. And I've been a real advocate for it. I've encouraged those other houses, sorry, they might hate me for it now, to go for it, because we'd had such a positive experience last year with the team filming. I can vouch for the fact that they want to work with us and we're all pulling in the same direction.I think for us as well, my other bits of advice are, maximising the opportunity once it's happened. So making sure SEOs all working really hard for you. Making sure as soon as... We had to basically open all those doors to our website, because when a million people are watching you on Channel 4 on a Saturday night, we didn't want the website crashing. We wanted really clear calls to action about booking for Christmas and booking the cottages and campsite. Anything we can sell. When there's that opportunity of that many people Googling you, we wanted to make sure we were ready for it.We were also really aware that a lot of the people watching the TV show wouldn't necessarily be in the area or region and could just buy an admission ticket. We hope when the Christmas show goes out on the 3rd of December it will sell any final tickets remaining. It certainly did last year, but we've this year decided to do a virtual experience that people can buy, so we'll probably have that on sale to coordinate with the Christmas TV show going out. So for those people who are overseas or who can't get to Castle Howard this Christmas, there'll be a virtual tour, obviously inspired by places like London Transport Museum, who do their Hidden London tours, and plenty of theatre events do similar and do it really well.And then for us, maximising the press and PR opportunities that come out of the exposure. And then my other advice is the boring stuff, really. Making sure everything is covered from insurance and how we protect our assets. Having really clear guidelines for when the film crew's in the house, what they are and aren't permitted to do. Having all those access arrangements and risk assessments all agreed up front. So there's a leak on the roof, of course the film crew are going to want to be up on the roof at the moment when that happens, and you haven't got time to go through the whole process of doing a risk assessment and talking about insurance at that point. So it's kind of trying to think about all the scenarios up front and making sure all of that paperwork was done. So that's the boring stuff.And then communication, just communication, communication, you can't over communicate it. I found people get really grumpy if you turn up with a TV crew whilst they're busy in the middle of something highly important or some kind of high risk job, and I'm like, "Could we film you?" It generally doesn't go down brilliantly, so I've been an absolute stuck record in every meeting I've been in this year where I've been asking, "Can Channel 4 film it? Can Channel 4 film it?"And then making sure people are wearing something appropriate if I know people are going in to film them, like properly branded uniforms, and just giving people a heads up so they know that it's likely they're doing a thing as part of their day and I'm going to be along with a TV crew.But actually what's happened then is as the year has progressed, people have come forward more and more with opportunities. So people start letting me know, "We're doing a acorn picking," was one thing. I would never have known there was an acorn picking initiative going on in the forestry department. So people have been coming forward to me, and I've now got this brilliant content army of people letting me know what's going on in their week ahead, and they're actively thinking all the time, "This might make a great story for the TV." So I think you can't over communicate stuff.And then the final thing, which has been my mantra, it's absolutely obvious, but if you don't say it on camera, they can't put it on TV.Kelly Molson: Such simple advice.Abbigail Ollive: Simple advice.Kelly Molson: Abbi, this is going to be one of my favourite podcast episodes ever. You are always so generous with the advice that you give and the support that you give to the sector. So thank you for saying that you will help people and you're happy to talk to them. I think that's really amazing. We will put all of your details in the show notes so people can find out about you. But if you're not watching it already, how do we find out about the show? Where can we watch it?Abbigail Ollive: Yes, it's called Castle Howard: Through the Seasons. It's a Channel 4 production, so it's going out on Saturday nights, but more likely you'll be able to catch it with it on all four watch on demand. I'm sure it's something that will get repeated variously across the years, because that's great. They're busy repeating, I think, Chatsworth's documentary at the moment as well, and there's one happening at Highclere, and I think these things just kind of have quite a long shelf life actually, so hopefully you'll be able to watch it on demand way into the future, embarrassingly.Kelly Molson: For sure. Without a doubt. Abbi, we always ask our guests to share a book with us before they leave, something that they love or something that they've just enjoyed as part of their career or personal. What would you like to share with us?Abbigail Ollive: In my life outside of Castle Howard, I do a lot of baking and cooking. We have a little family business and cafe, so I'm a crazy baking lady some nights for that. But actually, it was difficult to choose, because I've got a whole amazing shelf of cookbooks that I use very regularly, but Sabrina Ghayour, who has recently released Persiana Everyday. I absolutely love Middle Eastern cooking, and I'm not really sure where this passion came from, but I think that particular book I've been using a lot recently, because it's good, quick recipes, they're really reliable, and they're brilliant midweek, not overly complex when you've got your store cupboard of ingredients sorted.But I actually chose this because it's something that... Our Channel 4 producer who's been with us for a year, Hannah, and I massively bonded over food, both being foodies, and I actually invited Sabrina to our press launch at Castle Howard because she's recently moved to the area, and funnily enough, I got a tweet, I got a DM tweet from Sabrina Ghayour saying, "You work at Castle Howard? I love Castle Howard." And I was like, "Oh my god, I mean, I love you. I've got your book and use it all the time. I can't believe you're trying to befriend me." So I invited her along to the press launch and she came, and Hannah, Channel 4 Hannah, and I had a proper fangirl moment of just basically going, "We really love your recipes." So it felt like a good, relevant, irrelevant one, although there were plenty I could have chosen.Kelly Molson: Oh my god, I am so with you on this. I have all of her bits except this one. Maybe I'll enter myself.Abbigail Ollive: Good Christmas present. Good Christmas-Kelly Molson: Yeah, there you go. They are the books I go to if we're having people over for dinner, or every New Year's Eve we cook a feast for the two of us, it would be three of us now, but we cook an absolute feast, and it's always lamb and it's always something incredibly delicious from one of her books. I think would've fangirled a little bit too.Abbigail Ollive: I know. And she uses our farm shop a lot, obviously, because we have estate tenant farmers, and I think it's really brilliant to champion that field to fork message. And if you're going to eat meat, it's brilliant that it's local. It's such a treat for me to be able to have a farm shop at work where I can and get that from. So yeah.Kelly Molson: Amazing. All right, well, look, listeners, as ever, if you want to be in with a chance of winning that book, if you go over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with, "I want Abbi's books, book even", you will be in with a chance of winning it.This is the second cookbook that we've had on the podcast recently as well. There's a little trend here. I'm getting a little message [inaudible 00:49:33].Abbigail Ollive: The other one that I was close, is when I was on holiday recently, I read, I'm sure somebody must have recommended it, the Bob Iger book, The Ride of a Lifetime, because he was the CEO of Disney for 15 years, and this week's just been announced that he's back at Disney after retirement. Not to go on as a prize, but for anybody working visitor attractions I found it a really inspiring read. The last paragraph of, well, sorry, the last chapter, really, is his bullet points of the kind of things he lived by whilst running Disney. I'm going to do the old school thing where I print it out and stick it on my wall. So that's just a top tip for the sector. I'm sure most people have read it and I'm, as usual, three years behind the trend.Kelly Molson: No, it not been recommended, though. It definitely has not come up on our... No, I will check our library list, but I am positive that that hasn't come up yet. But you can't win that one, it has to be Sabrina, because you will fully appreciate the cookbook. Trust me.Abbi, thanks so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.Abbigail Ollive: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight, as always, to talk to you, and I do feel so honoured to be second time round.Kelly Molson: My absolute pleasure. You're always such a treat when you come on, and I genuinely am so grateful for all the support and advice that you give to people. So thank you.Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned.Kelly Molson: Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.. 

There's Christmas in the air as Charles takes a look at the up and coming pantomime season and reflects on his experience of Castle Howard's new Christmas lights event, Into the Woods. Graham looks at the new Harrogate exhibition for Norwegian artist, Danny Larsson and then explores the latest music venue to be thrown into crisis, Manchester's Night and Day, which as fallen foul of a noise complaint after thirty years of showcasing emerging indie bands in the Norther Quarter area of Manchester's city centre.

In this episode we are live at the Harrogate flower show and we are talking  to Jonathan Moseleyhttps://www.jonathan-moseley.com/Since early childhood a fascination with flowers and nature have inspired Jonathan to become one of the UK's leading designers within the floral art world. For over 25 years he has inspired and entertained audiences and individuals with his love of flowers through demonstrations, workshops and classes.Living on the edge of the Peak District Jonathan undertakes extensive private commissions throughout the UK for both public and private clients.  Jonathan is a regular feature at all of the major RHS shows including Chelsea, Hampton Court, Tatton and Malvern and he delivers seasonal events at Belmond Le Manoir aux quat ‘Saisons, Woburn Abbey, Castle Howard, Chatsworth House and at many other prestigious locations.Working directly with the retail floristry sector Jonathans extensive industry knowledge, skills and presentation techniques are highly sought after by wholesalers and independent retailers to help source and promote seasonal products through demonstrations, interior displays, workshops and magazine articles. He is a regular contributor to the BFA Magazine and Flora International and writes many features for leading lifestyle and horticultural magazines, blogs and online features.Jonathan is immediate past President of the North of England Horticultural Society.He is an Ambassador for the charity UCARE and an ambassador for The Haven Breast Cancer CharityAs a British Flower Ambassador Jonathan works closely with professional flower farmers to forge links between growers and florists. He is a passionate advocate for British seasonal flowers and is always enthusiastic to promote them to the public when he is demonstrating at any major event. In recognition for his celebrated role within UK floristry he was awarded in 2020 an honorary membership of the Institute of Professional Florists by the British Florist Association #gardening #trees #gardening-podcast #horticulture #nature #flowers #podcast #herbs #vegetables #fruit #carnivorous #worms #aquatic #showgardens #foral Support the show

Charles is back from some training and Graham is remembering Austin Powers a a form of torture. Graham gets his head and ears around the new Baz Luhrman film, Elvis. Charles reflects on Paul McCartney's Glastonbury headline performance. Graham talks about his recent DJ sets and bigs up the Rubetts, again ad picks out his favourite acts from the rest of the Glastonbury artists. Charles overcomes any qualms about the Chemical Brothers as he reports on their gig at Castle Howard. Are they the 'Ant and Dec' of contemporary music?

Country Houses are a huge inspiration for our host. After a childhood of being marched around the most incredible houses in the UK, he learnt to love them for their artistic and cultural importance in the landscape of Great Britain. Today, Harry is on a mission to highlight their cultural significance, dispelling their connotations of a grandma's day-out and instead inspiring people to see the benefit of a storied artistic experience that truly connects people with the history and objects of our past. Harry is lucky enough to have worked at one of the UK's finest stately homes and so had plenty of first-hand experience of the people who visit them and how to make them more accessible to all. This week, Harry is joined by two women championing the importance of stately homes. Firstly, we hear from historian and producer at History Hit TV Alice Loxton, who shares some of the stories behind some of her favourite homes, and talks about why more people should get involved with them. Also joining the episode is historian and author Charlotte Furness who discusses her thoughts on how to open up these buildings for all, as well as the reasons they still matter in our cultural landscape. She also shares with us the fascinating history of Anne Lister, a remarkable woman who features in Charlotte's latest book and whose diaries are still studied today as a record of hidden LGBTQ+ voices in the early 19th century.  Harry Stevens is the host of Young at Art and is a 21-year-old art and interiors obsessive passionate about opening up the art world to all. At Young at Art Harry speaks to the tastemakers who are defining a new image of art and design today, with new episodes out weekly. If you enjoyed this episode and want to find who we will be speaking to next, you can follow the podcast on instagram @youngatartpodcast. Today's guests can be found on instagram at @charlottefurnesswriter and @history_alice, and Harry can be found at @planetstevens. For more information about the podcast, please visit the website, www.youngatartpodcast.comThe podcast's cover art was drawn by Beatrice Ross, @beatricealiceross and the intro music was written and performed by Maggie Talibart, @maggie_talibart.  Houses to Visit1. Althorp House, Northamptonshire. A hidden gem only an hour from London, Althorp House has one of the best private art collections in the UK with works by Joshua Reynolds, Thomas Gainsborough, Van Dyke and Stubs. Featuring a mix of both modern works and inherited family pieces, the collection at Althorp feels fresh and relevant today. Althorp is also the family home of Princess Diana, and has been lived in by the Spencer Family for over 500 years. https://althorpestate.com 2. Kenwood House, Hampstead, London.Set on London's Hampstead Heath, Kenwood House is owned by English Heritage and was once home to a fascinating character from aristocratic history, Dido Elizabeth Belle, widely considered UK's first black British aristocrat. Dido's story is fascinating; her father Sir John Lindsay was a white Royal Naval Officer and her mother Maria Bell was a black slave living in the British West Indies. She was also a niece of William Murray, later the 1st Earl of Mansfield, who was influential in his views towards the abolition of slavery in the UK, some 60 years before the abolition act was passed in 1833. Her story is explored in the 2013 film Belle. https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/kenwood/ 3. Castle Howard, YorkshireBridgerton fans rejoice at the sight Castle Howard, which stands in as the fictional Clyvedon Castle, home to the Duke and Duchess of Hastings (played by Regé Jean-Page and Phoebe Dynevor). Castle Howard is a fabulous baroque palace: construction took over 100 years to complete and the result is a masterpiece of early 18th century design. The castle has a wonderful collection of antique sculpture, Canaletto paintings, and is set in acres of beautifully maintained parkland. https://www.castlehoward.co.uk 4. Mapperton House, DorsetHome to the Earl and Countess of Sandwich (Yes, where the name for the infamous lunchtime meal comes from) Mapperton is considered 'the finest manor house in England' and is home to an eclectic mix of objects and intriguing family history. Home to the Montagu family, Mapperton is the home of Julie Montagu - Viscountess Hinchingbrooke - who documents her life living and restoring the home to her YouTube channel (which has nearly 100,000 subscribers, all eager to get a slice of Mapperton life for themselves). Recently seen in Netflix's adaptation of Daphne Du Maruier's novel Rebecca, Mapperton House is a gem set amongst acres of gardens, where the Viscountess can be seen taking her daily ice bath in the 17th century canal garden !https://mapperton.com

XV. For fans of the great period television and film dramas Downton Abbey and Brideshead Revisited (among many others), one of the great pleasures is seeing the grand, sumptuous, imposing interiors of some of England's greatest homes used as stage sets in the drama.  This week's episode features Nick Dawes, master specialist and appraiser seen regularly on "Antiques Roadshow" who shares some insight into the decorative arts collections of some of these fictitious as well as some very real families.  Visit the Gilded Gentleman website for more information.

More food for thought … have a listen to another Welcome to Yorkshire ‘Talkshire' podcast … this time we caught up with Yorkshire's top TV chef, James Martin, ahead of his UK ‘James Martin Live' tour, which is heading to the Harrogate Convention Centre on the 12th of March and Sheffield City Hall on the 23rd.There's chat about growing up in Malton, often referred to as the ‘food capital of Yorkshire', studying in Scarborough, showcasing Yorkshire's food and drink offering across the globe, Strictly Come Dancing, his passion for cars, time at Castle Howard, fish and chips on the coast, driving across the North York Moors, fellow Yorkshire chefs … and the Yorkshire Shepherdess, Amanda Owen.As part of Welcome to Yorkshire's year-long Yorkshire Menu campaign … find out more about James Martin's culinary journey.This James Martin Talkshire podcast from Welcome to Yorkshire is sponsored by ‘Intelligent Appliances'.Intelligent Appliances are your Yorkshire based go-to for the world's most unique appliances designed to help you lead a healthier life. From growing your own micro greens and herbs in only a few days with the Urban Cultivator, breathing better and feeling good with the cold plasma air purifier from AirO, to the revolutionary, multi-functional blast chilling technology of the Irinox Home brand, your wellbeing will be supercharged.Join Intelligent Appliances as they shake up the world of appliances.

Nick Hancock is chatting to local artist Anita Bowerman at the Dove Tree Art Gallery and Studio in Harrogate! Anita offers a fascinating insight into the life of an artist and how she produces such beautiful pieces from this very studio. We also talk local inspiration including Harlow Carr, the Yorkshire Shepherdess, Fountains Abbey and Castle Howard among other beautiful hotspots across the district.

Yasmine Mohammed is an ex-Muslim Canadian educator, human rights activist and author who is critical of Islam. Mohammed, who escaped a forced, abusive marriage to an Al-Qaeda operative, became an advocate for women's rights through her non-profit organization Free Hearts, Free Minds. She is a member of the Center for Inquiry Speaker's Bureau and on the board of advisory for the Brighter Brains Institute. Through her initiative Free Hearts, Free Minds she supports closeted ex-Muslims from Muslim-majority countries and co-ordinates an online campaign called #NoHijabDay against World Hijab Day. She also has a website. Mohammed has been interviewed by Sam Harris, Seth Andrews, and several news outlets from multiple countries, and in 2019 self-published the book Unveiled: How Western Liberals Empower Radical Islam. MUSICAL GUEST: SHANE THOMAS Shane Thomas is still in his early 20s, but his extraordinary story started when he was 3. He insisted he could play the piano at that age despite never having touched one in his short life, apart from a tendency to play an imaginary one on the carpet. Shane finally got his hands on a piano aged 7, sat down at the keys and immediately starting playing all sorts of recognisable tunes with both hands. Within weeks he was composing his own pieces. A month later he made his first public performance and was nominated for the national Talented Youngster of The Year Award. The top prize in the Music for Youth Awards then followed. By the time he was 9, despite not having had a piano lesson, he achieved Grade 8, having skipped Grades 1 to 7. He was playing all the classics, just about any contemporary pop song and was even arranging them in a classical style. Shane was asked to appear on The One Show where Jamie Cullum exclaimed ‘he's amazing!'. The Daily Telegraph hailed Shane as a ‘mini Mozart'. At 11 Shane became the youngest composer to be given his own publishing deal with a major publisher – EMI Music. This led to invitations for Shane to play in front of 10,000 people at Castle Howard, at a private dinner for the then Prime Minister's wife Cherie Blair and even being endorsed by royalty. And then everything stopped. Shane's mother had walked out of the family home never to be seen again (she is now in prison). This left Shane, his father Clayton and two little siblings to fend for themselves. Clayton, himself a former pro musician and teacher had to singlehandedly look after the family unit. Priority was given to Shane's education, leaving any potential musical career behind. Money was not just short, it was non-existent at times. Sometimes they were sat in the dark, without electricity. Suddenly with Shane now well into his teens, the media remembered him. The BBC set him the challenge of composing and performing a symphony for the BBC Northern Orchestra within 8 weeks and Shane completed it in half the time. He performed it in front of a disbelieving audience of several hundred and the BBC cameras. Shortly after this Channel 4 picked up on Shane's extraordinary story and produced a documentary called ‘Extraordinary Teens – Young Gifted and Broke'. So where are we now? Decca Records went on to release two singles in 2017 and his track ‘The Ruins' hit No.2 in the Classical iTunes chart. Bucks Music Group then signed him to a publishing contract in 2018 and have been building him as a composer/artist since then. 10 years on from his original publishing deal at EMI Music , he could now more accurately be grouped with the likes of Ludovico Einaudi, Nils Frahm and Hans Zimmer. What is extraordinary about Shane is that, as well as composing melodies that have such immediate ear-worms, he does so by evoking such strong emotional links and themes. His team have identified that Shane can become one of the most exciting and prolific new artists at a time when playlists are so in need of new composers of great original music.

Have a listen to the latest, Welcome to Yorkshire, ‘Talkshire' podcast. Chatting to celebrated celebrities and fantastic folk about Yorkshire. Growing up in the county, filming here, touring with top shows, places to visit, living the Yorkshire life and so much more. TV and film production is big business and we caught up with Screen Yorkshire's Richard Knight to chat about his ‘movie move' to South Yorkshire and how Yorkshire is being showcased across the globe through hit TV shows and feature films … starring THE biggest Hollywood stars ... think Tom Cruise, Harrison Ford, Helen Mirren and many more. From creative crews to word-class locations (contemporary and heritage) … get the latest on The Duke, Bridgerton, Downton Abbey, Gentleman Jack, All Creatures Great and Small, Harry Potter, The Railway Children Return … Yorkshire's Castle Howard, The Piece Hall and Harewood House on screen … and the multi-faceted Wentworth Woodhouse, plus its Wentworth Woodhouse Screen Writing Award initiative (for all budding scriptwriters) and how EVERYBODY'S Talking about Sheffield's spectacular ‘Everbody's Talking About Jamie'. Wanting to work in TV and film production in Yorkshire? Perhaps your business or home would make an ideal location? Or you just love seeing this breathtaking county on screen? Be entertained and inspired … it's the Welcome to Yorkshire ‘Talkshire' podcast.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends August  27th 2021. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references:https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolsonhttps://twitter.com/TheChiefCheesehttps://www.skipthequeue.fm/https://twitter.com/Skip_the_Queuehttps://www.painshill.co.uk/https://twitter.com/PGriffiths_PHP Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip The Queue, a podcast for people working in, or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip The Queue.In today's episode, everything has been turned on its head. Paul Griffiths, Director of Painshill Park, is interviewing me about what it really takes to launch a podcast, and why we started Skip The Queue in the first place. I think I should probably be worried about the ice breaker questions.Paul Griffiths: Hello, and welcome to this latest edition of Skip The Queue. And I'm your guest presenter today, Paul Griffiths, and I'm delighted to have a very special guest for you today, Chief Cheese herself, Kelly Molson. Kelly, welcome to Skip The Queue.Kelly Molson: Thank you for welcoming me to my podcast. Paul Griffiths: All right, it's an honour. I know we've been trying to get you on the show for a long time, so it's great to finally get there. Now, we're here today to talk about how you made a podcast, and how you turned Skip The Queue into the ultimate podcast for visitor attractions. But, before we do that, of course, regular listeners will know, we have to start with our ice breaker questions. Kelly, are you ready for some ice breaker questions?Kelly Molson: No, I don't think I am, if I'm completely honest. I'm starting to feel like this is a big mistake.Paul Griffiths: No, no. Well just think, all the people you've had on, and all the questions you've asked them...Kelly Molson: I am.Paul Griffiths: I think we're going very easy on you like you do for your guests. You hope you'll not get difficult questions. Now Kelly, through the series of podcasts, I think we've all learned little bits about you from various things you've said, or say. So, I've tried to theme these questions slightly on your interests. So, I know you're a big fan of all things '80s, so particularly music. So, I want to know, and our guests want to know, what is your favourite '80s dance floor filler of all time?Kelly Molson: Oh, okay. Do you know what, so this is really weird because we were just talking about '80s music on our morning catch up with the team. Because one of my team members... So, we've got a password system that we built ourselves, and it's called Kenny Loggins.Paul Griffiths: Nice.Kelly Molson: And one of... Yeah, I know, great, right? But one of our team was like, "Who's Kenny Loggins?" I lost my mind. Okay, so I think a great '80s dance floor filler, it's got to be Wham, hasn't it? I feel like something like Club Tropicana.Paul Griffiths: Nice.Kelly Molson: Would be a good choice. But I do, on the theme of Kenny Loggins, I do love a bit of Footloose, and I also am a massive Top Gun fan. So, Highway To The Danger Zone. I mean, is there anything more '80s than that?Paul Griffiths: It's the perfect song, isn't it? The Aviator sunglasses. Funny enough you should mention Club Tropicana, my son Barney, who I think I got mentioned before on Skip The Queue, his class got the '80s as an era for world music decade. Each class got a decade. And they had to vote on what song they wanted to sing and dance to. But Club Tropicana didn't make it. Kelly Molson: Oh.Paul Griffiths: They had Club Tropicana, Madonna's Holiday, or Madness' Our House. And they went for Our House as a class vote.Kelly Molson: Oh right. I'm disappointed. It's the spirit of the '80s for me.Paul Griffiths: Absolutely. Okay, now we all know that you are a big Spurs fan, so we're going to give you an option here, you've got to pick one of these two strikers, who is going to play for Spurs forever. But the one you reject is off to play for the Arsenal forever. Kelly Molson: Oh.Paul Griffiths: So, will you take Harry Kane upfront for Spurs forever, or will you an in his prime Gary Lineker to play for Spurs forever? The other's off to The Emirates Stadium. Kelly Molson: Oh, God.Paul Griffiths: Now, I'll give you some help here, maybe. Lineker scored 80 goals in 138 games for the Spurs. Kane's, at the time of recording, 166 goals in 242 games. Obviously, a lot more games played now with European football. But, who are you going to take, and who's off to The Emirates?Kelly Molson: Oh my God. This is awful. This is a dreadful question if you're a Tottenham fan, because Gary Lineker, Gary Lineker was just, I mean, he was just an absolute hero. Oh, and I can't imagine him. No, God, this is dreadful. I'm going to have to go Lineker. Yeah, no, I'd have to, because I just feel like I couldn't live with watching him on the telly, and him having played for Arsenal. No. I'd have to go for Lineker. I know that doesn't work out in terms of how many goals, and stuff, but...Paul Griffiths: No, but that ratio [crosstalk 00:04:58].Kelly Molson: It's from my childhood. Yeah, I couldn't bear that.Paul Griffiths: Oh, you Gazza as well as a package. He comes with Gazza [inaudible 00:05:07].Kelly Molson: I wanted to marry Gazza, genuinely, when I was a kid. Gazza was like my... Yeah, I thought I was going to marry Paul Gascoigne. Maybe I had a bit of a lucky escape there, though. Paul Griffiths: I was just going say, probably better you didn't [inaudible 00:05:15]. Right, and the other thing we know you love is visitor attractions, especially as you've spent so much time on podcast talking. So, there's some either ors for you here, would you go to, Disney Park, or Merlin Park?Kelly Molson: Disney.Paul Griffiths: Museum or stately home? Kelly Molson: Stately home because I really like the grounds as well that become part of a... Like that kind of outside space too. So, stately home I think.Paul Griffiths: Good answer. National Park, or landscape garden.Kelly Molson: Oh, that would be National Park.Paul Griffiths: Fair enough.Kelly Molson: I'm going to feel like I've upset... I'm going to upset someone along the line, aren't I? But how can I not say National Parks?Paul Griffiths: And that's what ice breakers are all about, but moving on to upsetting people, of course, we have to ask you, what is your unpopular opinion?Kelly Molson: Right, well I thought about this, and I've got many. I've got one about Lorraine Kelly, but I don't know if I'm prepared to take the backlash for that one yet, so, I might save that for another day. So, I'm going to go... Oh, I've got so many, I'm going to go with afternoon tea is rubbish, absolute rubbish. I don't understand why, when you get to a certain age as a woman, every... I don't know, all of your mates are like, "Hey, let's go out for afternoon tea." Like, "Really?" I'd rather go to the pub. Kelly Molson: And, I don't understand what meal afternoon tea actually is, because you always have it at about 3.00 o'clock. So, do you have lunch before you go, because I'd be hungry by 3.00. So do you have lunch, and then you have tea? And then dinner? So you're having an extra meal. And then you never get enough sandwiches. Too much sweet stuff, not enough sandwiches. And you have it with tea. I just don't get it. It's just not for me.Paul Griffiths: That's a really well thought out answer, Kelly, there. And I have to say, I'm with you on a lot of those points, although, as someone who's selling afternoon teas from this afternoon on, I'm a great fan of course. But ours do come with Prosecco, so maybe that's an added bonus.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I mean... Yeah, if it is a Prosecco based one, it elevates it slightly for me, but I still just... I don't understand the big hoo-ha about an afternoon tea. And I just... The idea of it is actually better than the reality I think. Paul Griffiths: I think that's going to be an unpopular opinion that splits a few of our listeners, but I think it's a good answer, and well thought out.Kelly Molson: Thank you.Paul Griffiths: It's okay. Thanks for coming to the show.Kelly Molson: You're very welcome.Paul Griffiths: No, it's great to have you. You know that we're all great fans of Skip The Queue, and I think we'll talk about it later, you've got an amazing, almost family, of listeners who almost become a little group that talk regularly together, et cetera. And it has been a lifeline for many over the last year, with resource, and with so much great content that's helped so many of us through lockdown, re-opening, sharing... I mean, the amount of times I've been in the car chortling at peoples' experiences because of the laughter of recognition because I've been there myself. Paul Griffiths: Now I think we want to know a little about how you set up the podcast, and I thought it would be really useful to start with because, over the podcast, we've learned a lot about you as well. But I thought it would great if you told us a bit about how you became chief cheese, and how you set up Rubber Cheese, why you got the name. I know you did tell us on another podcast, but people might not have listened to our American friends. So, just chat a bit about the background before we go into podcasting.Kelly Molson: Gosh. So, Rubber Cheese has been around for 18 years now, which is... It is the longest job that I've ever had in my entire life. I met my co-founder, Paul, when we were working at an internet company. So it was like... It was the first foray into people being able to build their own e-commerce stores. You know you've got Shopify now, where you can go on and load your own store. So, about 20 years ago, there was a version of that called iShop which is still around now. And Paul and I met working there. And I think there was just something. We just always wanted to do something for ourselves. So I think I worked there for a couple of years, got a bit of a taste for web stuff. I was a graphic designer previously to that. I used to design branding, and brochures, and marketing materials, all kinds of stuff, and packaging as well.Kelly Molson: And so, yeah, we were 24, and 25, and we just thought, "Hey, let's leave our jobs, and go and set up an agency, right? What could be difficult about that?" Paul Griffiths: What could go wrong?Kelly Molson: What could go wrong? And lots went wrong. But no, actually, it was great. It was... Look we didn't really have a huge amount of ties at that point, so it was like, "Let's just give this a go, and see what happens after a year." And about two months in, we won a really big contract with Tescos, via a friend of mine who I had recently reconnected with on Friends Reunited, which is really ageing me. Paul Griffiths: Yeah, we are ageing ourselves there, for both doing that one, yeah.Kelly Molson: Massively. And just... It started there really, so we won this big contract with Tescos, it was a two-year contract, it put us in a really great position of then being able to go, "Okay, well great, our rent's paid." And we could then start to look at clients that we were working with, and just grew quite organically. It was just the two of us for five years. And then we took on our first full-time employee, who... She came in as a designer. So she took my design role, and then that was at the point where I became Chief Cheese. So I then had to stop learning about design, so to speak, and start learning a lot about spreadsheets, and pipelines, and sales forecasts, and all the stuff that was really hugely complicated to my creative brain. Kelly Molson: And it's just gone from strength to strength really. So we've been really, incredibly lucky. I mean, there's seven of us. We're not a huge, huge agency, but we work with global brands, and I just think we've been so incredibly fortunate over the years to work with some amazing clients. Kelly Molson: And the last six, seven years, a lot of them have been within the tourism attractions sector, which is where we end up today.Paul Griffiths: What about the name, how did you come up with Rubber Cheese, because it is fabulous?Kelly Molson: Thank you. I really want to tell you that there's an amazing story behind it, but it's so dull. So Paul and I were, again, this is nearly 20 years ago, we were teaching ourselves to use Flash animation, which was all the rage back then. And we needed a website where we could upload stuff, and test it out, and see if it was working. And Paul was like, "Oh, we'll buy a domain. Rubber Cheese, that'll do." So we just bought this domain, and then when we left the company, we said, "Well, we'll take that domain with us, we'll buy it, and take it with us." Kelly Molson: And that was it. There was no... It was just, "Okay, well great, we've got this ridiculous name, that will draw some attention, won't it?" So, I'd love to say from a branding perspective, you should really think about your name, and what that means. But we didn't do any of that whatsoever. It just became this odd name. But it was quite... It was quite funny because when we'd start to go networking events, or even just a bank to pay in a cheque, how retro is that? You'd get asked, "What is Rubber Cheese?" And you'd end up having these great conversations with people about what it was. Sometimes I'd go to a networking event and people would go, "We've been waiting for you to turn up, because we really wanted to know what Rubber Cheese is." And it was like, "Oh, this works in a way." Because people want to talk to you and find out a little bit more. I think we did... We might have thought about changing the name at one point, but it's there to stay.Paul Griffiths: Perfect. And then now, she's been chief cheese, what more could you want?Kelly Molson: Exactly.Paul Griffiths: So, from Rubber Cheese, and obviously you've said, in the last six, seven years you've been focusing... Well, not focusing, but doing a lot of visitor attractions, talk a little bit about how you set up Skip The Queue, and what made you do that and why, if you're working in a number of sectors, you thought actually tourism, we'll focus on visitor attractions.Kelly Molson: So we have worked in lots of different sectors over the years. We've been really lucky. But what happened is, we started working so... I mentioned a global client earlier, we've been working with Pernod Ricard for, probably about 10 years, in various forms. And probably, it must have been about five or six years ago, that we started talking to them about the Plymouth Gin Distillery Visitors' Center, a fabulous place. And we were contracted to build a platform for them, which was a ticket booking platform. And what was really great about that project is, it was our first foray into understanding the visitor experience, and the experience economy, and a tourist attraction, and a visitor attraction, and what challenges they had. And it was the best project. Everybody loved working on this project. And it was such a good learning experience for us, and so that worked really well for them. Kelly Molson: They then rolled it out to the Beefeater Distillery, and then we've been working it again with four of the Whiskey Distilleries up in Scotland as well. And so, over those three years, four years that we've worked with them, we've just built up this huge amount of knowledge about what they were doing, and their challenges, and how we could make things work better for them, which then led to winning other projects in that sector. So, it was fabulous that we worked with Eureka, The National Children's Museum, who are just wonderful. If you haven't been there, please go. Find a child to take so that you can go. It's definitely, it's worth it, you know.Paul Griffiths: Brilliant. One of your podcasts with you a few episodes ago and listen to a chat about the new Eureka, that's really inspiring. I think everyone then was like, "I want to go, I want to go." Kelly Molson: Oh definitely. Yeah. And the new centre is going to be incredible, I cannot wait for next year when that opens.Paul Griffiths: We'll go with our Crocs and socks on. Kelly Molson: Oh, Michelle. Michelle. No Crocs and socks. Please don't do that. So yeah. It came from there really, and I think what was interesting is that all of the team are very much... We're all people that spend our money on doing things, rather than buying stuff if that makes sense. Paul Griffiths: Yeah, it does.Kelly Molson: We want to spend our money on things that make memories, so we love to travel, Lee and I, we travel a lot. We like to go to different places, we like to... Even like Christmas presents, we don't really buy each other stuff, we'll go, "Okay, well, why don't we go to the theatre, or why don't we go and..." That's what we would rather do with the money that we have. And we just spoke to the team, and said, "Look, we've never done this before, but we'd really like to focus all of our attention on one sector, what do you think?" And everyone was up for it. Everyone was behind it. And that's really where the idea came from because although we'd been working in that sector, we didn't know enough, it wasn't broad enough for us. So the podcast was a way for us to learn more from people. Paul Griffiths: Mm-hmm (affirmative).Kelly Molson: And so that's how we came up with the idea of starting it.Paul Griffiths: I should have said earlier actually, I must say thank you to a number of regular listeners who have emailed in or LinkedIn or Twitter with questions. And lots of these, I hope I'm covering in the next bit of the show. And a number of questions that people have sent in. And a lot of people are interested, Kelly, to know how you initially set this up from a brainwave of, "Let's do a podcast." To recording and turning Skip The Queue into what it is. But how did you start up in that sense?Kelly Molson: So, I guess there are quite a few facets to it really because you have to think about why you're doing it in the first place. So that for me is the first starting point. It's like, "Why are you doing it?" So, what are your objectives with the podcast, and ours was really... It was initially about education. We wanted to understand about the sector, understand about people's individual challenges, what the sector was going through. Good things, bad things. Kelly Molson: We wanted to meet people in the sector, so again, we wanted to expand our network. We really wanted to create a platform where we celebrated the people that worked in attractions as well, because we thought that was really important. There's a lot of things that happen behind the scenes in attractions that you don't realise when you visit them. And even the people that you're talking to front of house, you don't realise the kind of pressures that they're under, or you're sometimes not aware of the service that they're delivering you. So it was like, "Well, why don't we celebrate that?" And then, ultimately, it was a way of raising our profile in the sector as well. Kelly Molson: So from a marketing perspective, a podcast is a really great thing to have, because it can position you right in the centre of that industry that you want to be part of. So that was a big part of it. And then, we had to look at how we were going to do this. And what skills did we have internally to be able to set up a podcast? And so, I think Paul and I were like, "Okay, well we can host." I do a lot of public speaking for the agency anyway, so I was quite comfortable talking, although a podcast is very different from standing up in front of hundreds of people at an event. It's... In some ways, it's more uncomfortable, but I'll tell you why it started off being a bit more uncomfortable. And then you have to think about what format your podcast is going to be. Kelly Molson: So, is it going to be you just delivering your knowledge, or are you going to try and get guests in? What are those topics going to be? What are you going to talk about? How are you going to find the guests that you want to come on? Are they going to say, "Yes?" Is anyone going to say, "Yes," they want to come on this podcast, I don't know. What kind of content is there going to be? And then you have to really think about where your audience is because anyone can set up a podcast but not everyone is going to find it, and listen to it. So you have to think about, "Is there an element of community building that you need to do around this podcast as well?" Where you promote it, and how you get that out to the right people. And then, once you've done all of that, you have to think about, "Okay, well, who's going to edit this podcast? How are we going to actually make it a thing?" I can sit and record something. Kelly Molson: None of us internally had any podcast editing skills, and we made the decision really early, that nobody was going to learn that. It was going to be too much of a time drain for us. So we were going to outsource that element, so we work with Steve Folland, who is super. We knew Steve, he works and is based locally to where our office is. But he works on some really awesome podcasts. And he actually has his own podcast, Doing It For The Kids. He's got a really great podcast for the freelance community as well. And then it's down to, where are you going to host the podcast, you need some kind of platform to host it on? What are you going to record it on? And how are you going to promote it? So, we talked about building a community. If you're going to promote a podcast, you need things like graphics created. Are you going to have our podcast transcribed? That was really important to us. Kelly Molson: We wanted to make the podcast as accessible as possible to everyone, so not everyone can listen to a podcast. So we make sure that it's transcribed, so you need to have that done so that people can read the podcast if they want to. So there is a huge amount of things to decide on before you go, "Right, let's do it."Paul Griffiths: It's interesting. Lots of the points you've touched on, I'd like to delve into a bit more in detail, if we can, over the next few questions. A lot of people... One of the things that came up a lot when we put a plea out for questions, and what people want to know was costs. Because you just described things that people aren't doing free of charge. And I wondered if you could give an idea of what it costs to do an episode, or what it costs to set up, or whatever figures you're happy to give. It's just, I think a lot of people would be interested to know what sort of budgets they would need if they're looking to set up a podcast.Kelly Molson: Yeah, totally. So, I've thought about this in quite great detail. So because we knew initially we were not going to edit, we didn't have to buy any editing equipment. So I'm really sorry I can't answer any questions about that because genuinely, the best thing that we ever did was hire Steve to do the editing. He's a specialist. He makes everything sound brilliant. He even makes me sound funny sometimes. But what we did purchase were things like a really good microphone. So this is my microphone. A blue yeti microphone. Which was about £120, £150, somewhere around that. But that's a really great investment. It was a bit of trial and error actually, we bought other microphones that weren't that great, and ended up going back, but this has been the best one that we've bought. You need good headphones. These are average headphones. My good headphones I actually left at the office, and I haven't been back there for a while. So a good pair of headphones, noise cancelling ones are normally quite good. I don't know, 30, 40 quid for a pair like that. You could go higher if you want, but something around that price bracket would be fine. Editing an episode is an interesting one. You can hear my little dog barking in the background. Steve will edit her out.Paul Griffiths: Oh really?Kelly Molson: He'll work his magic somehow. You probably won't be able to hear her. But that for us is worth the weight in gold. So...Paul Griffiths: Desperate to be on the show, isn't she?Kelly Molson: She's such a drama queen. She's just... She craves attention. I mean, I wonder where she gets that from?Paul Griffiths: Ooh.Kelly Molson: But then you need to think about your site hosting. So we host our podcast on a platform called Simple Cast. That's about £15 per month. We record through Zoom. And Steve curses me for recording through Zoom because the sound quality is not great. We used to record through a platform called Zencaster, which again, is a cloud-based platform. It's about £15 a month. Now, the reason we stopped recording through Zencaster is, it became a bit complex for the guests, and sometimes some of the guests didn't really understand what they need to do, even if I'd sent instructions. People are really busy. They don't always read the things that they need to before they come on, which is understandable. Zoom, everyone was really comfortable using, because they were using it every day for all of their meetings. So it just became easier for us to do Zoom. So we've got a pro Zoom account. But obviously, we use that for other things as well, so I don't really tie that into podcast costs. But then you need to think about who's going to create your promotion graphics for this. We're lucky, we've got in-house designers. Kelly Molson: We've got an amazing VA who supports me hugely with our podcasts. So we've got templates set up, she will then create all of the podcast graphics from the templates that we've already got in place, but that is potentially a cost that someone needs to think about.Paul Griffiths: Mm-hmm (affirmative).Kelly Molson: Then I said we get it transcribed, each episode. It's roughly about $40 to get it transcribed. So there are lots of little things that you don't think about, that you need to think about in advance. We also run a competition. So there is a cost to that in the fact that you have to purchase the books that people recommend, sometimes they recommend two or three when I ask for one. And then that puts my budget up. And then the postage for that, and things like that. So I think we worked it out that the podcast probably costs about five, to six grand a year.Paul Griffiths: Oh. Kelly Molson: Which isn't a huge amount if you've got... It depends on what your marketing budget is, but it also then depends on what the returns, or what your expected returns are for that podcast, and for that amount.Paul Griffiths: Yeah. Kelly Molson: So you have to work out... And that takes you back to why are you doing this in the first place? And is this a worthwhile investment for you?Paul Griffiths: I think that that would be one of my later questions actually. Thank you for that Kelly, that's really honest, and I think that's really useful for people. Because I think that's one of the things that a lot of people, me included, probably felt that you go on Zoom, you record speaking to someone, bang, it's up live. But actually, there's so much more work behind it which is just quite frightening.Paul Griffiths: You obviously manage to attract brilliant guests, and I think they get better and better all the time, but how did you go about... Well, firstly can you tell us about how you got the initial guest, because you had no podcast, you were starting up. You had to invite 10 people on, and you had some fabulous people in those early days, real industry leaders coming on the show. And then, how do you now go about getting guests and picking topics, and thinking about what people might want to hear about?Kelly Molson: Yeah, so it was really difficult to get guests when we first started because you haven't got anything to show them. You've no proof of concept, you're just getting in touch with people and saying, "Hey, we've started this podcast, it's about this subject, we'd really love you to come on and talk to us, how do you feel about it?" And we would get emails back from people, and they'd be like, "Well, can you send us an episode? What is it? How many listeners have you got? How long..." We were like, "Well, zero listeners at this moment in time. Hey, we're listening." So, it was quite tricky. We lucked out a little bit, I'm not going to lie. So we had the CEO of Paradise Wildlife Park come on. Which, for us, was quite a big coup, because they're quite local to where we are, but the luck that we had is, one of our team members was actually related to her. So we had a little bit of an ins there already.Kelly Molson: And then I think some of the others we, again, it was just... We maybe just got them at the right time. They had something that they wanted to talk about, that they were quite keen to get out in the world. And then, actually, it was a case of, I stalked people a little bit. So, I went to the visitor attractions conference at the end of 2018, or no, it was in 2019. So, I'd been stalking people that had spoken at the attractions conference previously, and saying, "Oh, I really loved your talk, it was really interesting, I wondered if you could come on and talk about the same thing on our podcast?" And that's how I got a few of the early, of the second series people, come on. Kelly Molson: So Jules Ozbek, who I think is fantastic, I heard her speak at the Visitor Attractions Conference at the end of 2019, and then I... I basically just stalked her a little bit on LinkedIn and asked her really kindly if she would come on the podcast, which she agreed to. And also Abigail Olive, as well, who was awesome, from Castle Howard. Her story about... She shared the love story.Paul Griffiths: Yes.Kelly Molson: You must go back and listen to this episode because it's a brilliant story. But it was about how they... There's a wonderful love story that had happened that then brought them all of these incredible Chinese tourists to the place. And she was fabulous. And I think once people hear the calibre of guests that you can get, it sort of spirals a little bit from then.Kelly Molson: But those first ones were... It was really, really tough. And I just think you've just got to keep ploughing on, and asking people. People will say no, but don't be offended by that. Some of the people that have said no, would probably say yes now if I went back because I can showcase what we've done, and who's been on.Paul Griffiths: And so, how about now Kelly, do you have a long waiting list of guests lined up, you plan your series, don't you? So, are you finding it easier to get guests now, how do you go about it now, now you're that you're already onto this podcast?Kelly Molson: So, I still stalk people, if I'm honest. So, what I think, what's great is that the guests we've had on... There is something really lovely about the attractions sector, in that, there is a community there already.Paul Griffiths: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.Kelly Molson: And what is wonderful is that we've had guests on, that I've then been able to say, "Who do you think that we should have on? Who do you think has got a really interesting story?" And I can remember doing this with Carly Straughan, and Johnny Lyle as well, both of them. I had really good chats with them after their episodes. And said, "Could you recommend some people that you think that would be really great for us?" And they're so well connected, and they know everybody in the industry, and they were like, "Yeah." And they sent me lists of people. They were like, "You need to speak to this person, this person would be great." And so, that's how it spiralled. But because they knew them, obviously those guests come on, and then they knew more people and more people. So, that's one of the best ways, is like saying to your guests, "Who do you think should come on and talk about this? Because you know the industry better than we do right now." Kelly Molson: And then I do stalk people. I go on to Twitter, and like I said, there is quite an active attractions community on Twitter.Kelly Molson: And I see who people are talking to, or I see Blooloop is a fantastic resource, Attractions Magazine is another great resource. I see stories that come up in there, and I think, "Wow, that would make a great podcast episode, let's talk to them." So I've got my eye on the Black County Living Museum at the moment. So, I'm doing a little bit of stalking at the moment, because I'd love them to come on and talk about their Tik Tok fame.Kelly Molson: And so, stuff like that happens where you see what's going on, and you think, "Great, they would be awesome. And then you just reach out to them." But you do... I do get people to email us. Not very often actually, but occasionally people email us and say, "I think this person would make a great guest on the podcast, or we've got this thing that we'd love to talk about." I have to be really conscious that there are sometimes will contact that... I don't want the podcast ever to be salesy.Paul Griffiths: Right yeah.Kelly Molson: For me, it is an education piece, and it's really important that it stays an education piece, so I'll try to get that balance right between the kind of people that do come on, and what they're talking about and those topics. So, sometimes people will say, "I've got this thing that I've launched, and I want to come and talk about." And I don't know that that's a good fit for the audience at that point. So...Paul Griffiths: Fab. And what about the promotion of a podcast, from the early days of getting it known, I guess was word of mouth. And now, how do you promote it? How do you keep gaining more listeners, and how have you got your success?Kelly Molson: Well, it's lovely that you think it's successful. It is interesting because I think that success is really subjective. So, again, it goes back to your objectives, and what you are trying to achieve from it. Because our top one was always about education, we weren't that focused on what the numbers were. So, people are, "Oh, how many downloads do you get?" It's not really that relevant to us because that's not what we were... We weren't aiming to be number one in the podcast charts. So, the way that we've promoted it is by understanding where the community is. So, where do the people that would be our listeners hang out, and it's mostly Twitter. Kelly Molson: It's a very active community on Twitter, so that's really where we do most of our promotion. So we've got a Twitter account, specifically for Skip The Queue. We will post out on there when the new episodes are coming, and we'll make graphics and snippets, and we'll do as much as we can to promote the guest.Kelly Molson: It's actually probably more about promoting the guest than it is about promoting the podcast if that makes sense? So we really try to highlight those people and raise them up. And what's great is that so many people then help us spread the word. So, the best people to share, and promote the podcasts, are the guests that come on. And we've been really lucky that we've had great guests that have wanted to do that. We've had other great guests that have come on, and that's it. They've come on, they've done the podcast, they've shared their knowledge, we don't hear from them again. They're not, they haven't shared any of the Tweets, or any of the posts. And that's fine. If that's not their bag. But then, you do get a huge proportion of people that really want to. They're really proud of the fact that they've been on. They want to share what they've done with other people. And that's really where you see the numbers start to grow, and the interaction happen. We've got some really incredible loyal fan base.Kelly Molson: You are one of them Paul. You're always super generous with sharing what you think about the podcast, or what you've learned from it. And Mark Ellis does as well, from the National Arboretum. And that's how you spread the word. There are other things that you can do, which we haven't done as actively as we could. But things like going on other people's podcasts is a really good way of promoting your own podcast.Paul Griffiths: Right.Kelly Molson: And I was very kindly invited on the Attraction Pros podcast, which is our... It's the US equivalent. Josh and Matt who run that are fabulous. And honestly, all of our listeners should subscribe to that if you're not already because they get some really interesting guests on there, and they ask great questions as well. So that was a really lovely opportunity for us to cross-promote. And Matt and Josh have both been back on our podcast as well. So hopefully, that's helped and crossed the big pond. Kelly Molson: Sometimes it is also about getting a big name to come on the podcast too. And that drives up your listeners because they... So I reached out, oh God, I was so nervous about doing this. So I asked the ex VP of Disney if he would come on the podcast. And I was terrified. I sent this email on LinkedIn thinking, "He's never going to reply to me." And honestly, five minutes later he emailed back, and was like, "Yeah, I'll come on." "Oh God, now I've got to actually interview him." I was so nervous. But that was incredible, the value that that gave to the podcast, and how it was able to position it. After that, no one said no to coming on the podcast since that point so...Paul Griffiths: Lee Cockerell and you really are hard-hitting, aren't you? And of course, I think from his perspective, I guess because he's got a brilliant weekly podcast. Dan's got a brilliant weekly podcast. So they are, as you said, going on other people's podcast as a guest is a great way. And you said, was a brilliant episode of you on Attractions Pro, as was then, Matt and Josh came on yours. You talk about not worrying about the stats. Is there a little bit of you Kelly, that thinks it's like Top of The Pops, back in the old days, and you're wanting to see where you are on that list, and seeing how many people are listening, I know I would?Kelly Molson: I don't check it very frequently. I'll be completely honest.Paul Griffiths: Really.Kelly Molson: No, I don't check it very frequently. I started to do a top three on Twitter. Like the top three downloaded episodes, because I thought that would be interesting for listeners to know. But I did check it before we recorded this because I knew you were going to ask, so the most downloaded episode at the moment is The Making Of Harry Potter.Paul Griffiths: Oh yeah. It was a-Kelly Molson: With Geoff Spooner So, that was a great episode. And that, at the moment is on about 270 downloads. So, that's like 270 individual brand new downloads. And at the minute I think we're just about to hit 6,000 downloads in total. I don't really even know what that means though. So, again, I'm just not that bothered about it. It is a niche podcast. It's not for everybody.Paul Griffiths: No.Kelly Molson: And it was never made to be for everybody as well. So, I just think, for me, the numbers don't really matter that much.Paul Griffiths: Good answer. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? And I suppose for you it's a quality, not quantity because you're getting some people who are in that business, and going back to your original objectives, might well want to work with a digital agency, and you guys are therefore on the tips of everyone's tongues I guess, which is achieving your objective.Kelly Molson: Hopefully, yes. If it's achieving one of the objectives, that would be wonderful.Paul Griffiths: Yeah. Absolutely. The next question was all about the tech side, and I think you've already talked about a lot of things like the equipment you need, but also... So, when you're planning your episodes, so your guest has agreed to come on. You've contacted them, and stalked them through various social medias, they know they're being followed, and it's like, "Better say yes, otherwise Kelly is never going to leave me alone." Tell me a bit about what you do after that to prepare your guests, or to plan the episode. Kelly Molson: So, a lot of the time I will have invited that guest on for a specific reason. So, there will have been something that I've seen, that they've been talking about, that I'll think, "That would be really great to understand a bit more about that, and I think our listeners would like that as well." So, that's normally how it starts. Sometimes we have a pre podcast chat, so it might just be a five or 10-minute chat about what we're going to talk about. Sometimes it might just be, I'll email over and say, "Look, I heard you speak about this topic, I think it would be great to come on to the podcast, how do you fancy it?" If they say yes, then I work out a few pre questions. So, I don't like it to be super structured, I mean, obviously, there is a structure to the podcast. Kelly Molson: You all know that there's ice breaker questions coming. You know that I'm going to ask for an unpopular opinion. But the rest of the podcast is... I try to structure it in a way where there's three or four key questions that I really want to understand, but the rest of it is quite conversational, so it can go off on a bit of a tangent, and sometimes that's a bit more relaxed for the guest. But also, some guests, they like to know what we're going to be talking about, and what they're going to be asked. So, by giving them three or four questions that structure the topic of that conversation, it makes them feel a bit more at ease because they know what to expect. So that's what I do. I just... And then there'll be other times where I just think, "This person's really great, and they would make a really great guest. I think they'd be a great guest." But I might not have seen anything that I think they've been showcasing, or they've been talking about. Kelly Molson: So then we'll have a chat and say, "What could you share with the listeners?" What would you think would be relevant for them right now? Have you been through anything recently that's been a learning curve for you? Have you had any challenges that you're happy to come on and talk about?" Or, "Is something really exciting just about to happen that you think our listeners would be really interested in understanding more about why that's happened?" So it's a bit of a mixture.Paul Griffiths: Brilliant. So, I'm sure some of our listeners today have been listening in because they are thinking about starting a podcast, or they've... And I think it's been really great, Kelly, you've been so honest. Because I think it isn't an easy process it seems. There's a lot of work involved in it. I think it's great that people know that. But if people were thinking of starting a podcast, what are your key tips, or advice you'd give them?Kelly Molson: So I think that it's going back to what we talked about initially, so it's, "Why are you doing this in the first place? What are your objectives for starting a podcast?" And they're going to be very different, depending on what you do as an organisation, whether you're a supplier to the industry, whether you are the National Football Museum, for example, came on. And they talked a lot about why they started their podcast. Paul Griffiths: Yes of course.Kelly Molson: And a lot of that was to facilitate the fact that they weren't open, they'd got all of these fantastic artefacts, shirts, all of those things that they could talk about, and have conversations about. And they've got a lot of content already that they knew that they could do something with. So the podcast seemed like a natural way of getting that out to the public when they couldn't visit the centre. So, go right back, and think about what it is that you want to achieve by setting up this podcast. Kelly Molson: And that might education, it might be getting something out to the world that you've got to share. It might be... It genuinely might just be, you're an agency and you want to position yourselves in a certain sector. There's other agencies that we know have podcasts who work in the tech sector, for instance. So they focus on having tech guests, and those kinds of conversations. And then you really need to think about where your audience is, because I don't think it's enough to just have a podcast. You really want to be building some kind of community around that podcast. Or it's just output all the time. There's no engagement. There's no... It doesn't go to a deeper level. We've had so many incredible guests on there now. And a lot of those guests have turned into people that I can just call on about stuff. Or I can email and say, "How about this?" Or, "Oh, I saw this thing that I think that you'd really love. Here you go"Kelly Molson: And I like that. I think that there's a real positive energy to that. So, really think about what your objectives are? Who your audience is? Where they are? What do they want? What does your audience want to listen to? What is going to be relevant to them right now? We launched Skip The Queue in the middle of 2019, which was very different to the middle of 2020. And so, when we brought it back in 2020, for us, it was all about, "Okay, maybe COVID situation has given us a little bit of an opportunity here, because our audience is going to be, probably, far more engaged this year than they would last year. They've got a lot of time on their hands, sadly, with venues being closed and people on furlough. What would help them right now? What would be useful to them right now?"Kelly Molson: And so, we pitched it as, "Let's get people on that can share their experiences of how this has impacted them, what they're doing to plan for re-opening. What things are they thinking about past COVID? How has this changed what their marketing plans might look like? How has this changed their digital strategy, and what that might look like?" Kelly Molson: So, really, really think about what's relevant to the audience that you're trying to get in front of, at that time. Yeah, I think they're my top tips.Paul Griffiths: You've mentioned objectives quite a bit, Kelly, which is fascinating during this. And do you feel, when you sit back or look back at why you started it out, you've ticked those objectives? I mean, it sounds like you have, but do you feel that you have?Kelly Molson: Yeah, I do. And I feel really proud of what we've achieved actually. I think that I've always been quite honest and said that I think that actually, the podcast was the thing that got me through last year, because although we work in the sector, we were very fortunate to be relatively busy last year as a digital agency, because of the situation, and people having to pivot, and make those changes. But it was still really, really tough, and for me, being able to speak to someone new and really interesting every week, or every couple of weeks, that could come on the podcast, was just a bit of lifesaver really. It really helped me. But yeah. In terms of the objectives, has it ticked all the boxes? I mean, absolutely. I mean, what we know now about the sector, and what we know about the people in it, and the network that we have in it, is phenomenal. I couldn't have asked for more from it. Kelly Molson: And it has really brought some really interesting things. So, for example, I talked about going on the Attractions Pro's podcast. Because of our podcast, we've been asked to go on to other people's podcast. And that's helped promote our services. And our services, and what we do isn't really what we talk about on the podcast that much. So, that's been really nice. We've been asked to speak at webinars. We were always going to exhibit at the Visitor Attractions conference last year, which we did. But I think the fact that we had the podcast helped me then get a speaker slot at that as well, because they could hear that I was, maybe not a bumbling idiot. Kelly Molson: I don't know? So, maybe that bolstered my chance of getting a speaker slot. And we've been asked to contribute to publications, we, like I said, we've got an amazing network, we've built up all of these fantastic connections and community. But actually, it has brought leads as well. It has brought us leads and things into the business, where people have said, "Well, I was looking for an agency and found you, but then I heard the podcast as well." And so it reinforces your understanding of the sector, which I think makes people feel more trustworthy towards you. And more confident that you know... You'll understand what's important to them in their challenges.Paul Griffiths: Yeah. No, I think it's really done that. And moving forward, obviously, the last year has been successful, as we've said earlier, some amazing guests. What do you see... How do you take it forward? How do you take Skip The Queue forward, is it more of the same, or do you branch off into different things? Or what do you do next?Kelly Molson: That's a really good question. So, there's lots of things that I've been thinking about doing. We are going to have a little bit of a Summer break.Paul Griffiths: Yeah.Kelly Molson: And we're going to come back in October. So, just because we've been doing this continuously for a whole year now. And it wasn't what I expected. I always thought we'd do... I thought we'd make it very seasonal. So we'd do eight or 10 episodes, and then have a break, and then do more. But I loved it so much last year, and genuinely it was keeping my spirits up, I said to Paul, "I'm just going to carry on. I'm just going to keep going through." But it is definitely time for a little bit of a rest while all you guys open up this Summer, and go crazy with all the visitors that are going to come. I might just put my feet up for a little while.Kelly Molson: I definitely want to do some panel events. There's some things that Hannah and I, Hannah Monteverde from BeWILDerwood, spoke about. About women in the sector, which I think would be really interesting. Paul Griffiths: Yeah.Kelly Molson: And I'd like to get more... I'd like to do more panel events in terms of hot topics in the sector as well. And so, have three or four panellists that come on and talk about things. I really would like to do an event. I would love to do some kind of Skip The Queue event. I don't know what that would be, whether it would be like a little mini-conference or a live podcast event. I think live podcast... Steve would probably go insane listening to this, and go, "No, don't do it." But I think I would really like to do something where we get everybody together because it has really felt like a bit of a community effort where people have got behind us.Paul Griffiths: Yeah.Kelly Molson: And it would be really nice to put something on when we've got everyone together when we're able to do. So, I've got something like that ticking around in my head. Definitely more of the same as well. If that's what everyone wants to hear. But I take this opportunity to ask, what would our listeners want? If you're happy with the way it's going, great. We'll do more of that. If there are extra things that you'd love us to do, or you think would be really interesting, then email me at kelly@rubbercheese.com. Don't be shy.Paul Griffiths: Brilliant. Kelly, thank you so much for sharing everything with us today, but more importantly, thank you for everything you've done in the last year. These podcasts have been a lifeline for so many of us. We've all loved listening, and you've built up this family of regular listeners who comment all the time. And I know people look forward to it, and can't wait to download and listen. And you see that now, how quickly are responding to your episodes, and we've commented on it. But I know, from what you've told us today, you've really got into just how much work it is. So, on behalf of everyone, all the listeners, thank you so much.Paul Griffiths: But we can't finish, of course, without a book recommendation, and I hope you've got several. So you have to drive your marketing budget through the roof, so, Kelly, I want to know a book that you would recommend, and our listeners can get by re-Tweeting this episode, and saying, "I want Kelly's book." On Twitter. So, what is your book recommendation? Kelly Molson: So, this is the book that I have probably recommended the most throughout my career. And I read it about a year into having set up Rubber Cheese, well maybe about six to eight months into setting up Rubber Cheese, because somebody said to me, "Oh you need to get out, and you need to start networking." And I was like, "What the hell is that then? I don't know. What is networking? What do you do?" And they said, "Oh you go to meetings, and you meet loads of interesting people, and you just talk to them." And I was like, "All right." I was 25. I was like, "Okay, that sounds weird, but I'll do it." But somebody recommended Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends And Influence People.Paul Griffiths: Really?Kelly Molson: And it is a really old book, but it is genuinely the book that I credit with changing my whole perspective about how to listen to people. About how to have really good conversations. And ultimately, it is the book that I've given out the most to people. So, I think a really lovely girl that I know, I was mentoring her for a little while a couple of years ago, and that was the first book that I sent her. And said, "Have a read of this, I think you'll really enjoy it." And it's just the one book that I've sent out religiously to people. I've made Lee read when he started his photography business. Because I just think there's something about it that just makes you really understand that it is about the other person, more than it is about you.Paul Griffiths: Mm-hmm (affirmative).Kelly Molson: And I think when you're younger, you maybe... Well, me personally, when I was younger, maybe didn't really understand that fully, about how to listen to people, and understand what was important to them, and letting them speak. So, that would be my recommendation.Paul Griffiths: Well, thank you. And as I said, if you want that book, re-Tweet this episode link, and put, "I want Kelly's book." And Kelly will send you a copy if you're the winner. Kelly Molson: I will.Paul Griffiths: If you're the one lucky winner, I should say. She won't send them out to everyone, because Kelly's budget doesn't stretch that far. Well, Kelly, thank you so much for coming on Skip The Queue, it's been so insightful, so brilliant. And thank you for coming on.Kelly Molson: Oh, you're welcome. I really enjoyed this Paul. So thank you for being a fabulous interviewer today.Paul Griffiths: You're very kind. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions, that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes, and transcriptions from this episode, and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

"I watched it three times"

Justine Warner is inspired by the beautiful Yorkshire countryside on her doorstep and has developed a distinctive style for the textile art landscapes she creates. She works under the brand Pearl Loves Paisley. She loves to experiment with different techniques and materials. A VERY surprising and very important element in her work is... patterned men's ties. Yes, stripey, spotty, and particularly paisley. When you look closely you can see those patterns hiding in plain sight in her atmospheric landscapes of woods and rolling hills. Justine shares her inspiration, techniques and her story of how she has developed her art practice alongside being a busy secondary school teacher. Susan Weeks chats with Justine Warner about: Her love of recycling - even old photographic plates Renovating old stables into a lovely new studio Hiding patterned men's ties in plain sight in her landscapes Oooooo winning a prize at the village show as a total newcomer! Creating landscapes inspired by the local scenery Blending the patterns, textures and richness of the ties The delights of the village Jumble Sale What to do with all the labels from all those ties? Using Tyvek, Lutrador, painting on Bondaweb, and burning back the layers It's hard to know where to start capturing the beauty and variety of the Yorkshire landscape Having a love hate relationship with seed beads Practical solutions developed by trial and error Creating personal connections combining a loved ones ties and their favourite view Juggling school teaching and her own art practice development Setting up Zoom online workshops When we love what we are doing, it doesn't ever feel like hard work! Who is Pearl and why does she love Paisley??? For this episode... View Show Notes, Links & Examples of Justine's textile art at https://www.stitcherystories.com/justinewarner Visit: https://www.justinewarnerartist.com/ Like: https://www.facebook.com/JustineWarnerArtist/ Look: https://www.instagram.com/pearl_loves_paisley/ Other Episodes You Might Enjoy: Fran Brammer https://www.stitcherystories.com/franbrammer/ Lynn Comley https://www.stitcherystories.com/lynncomley/ Laura Edgar https://www.stitcherystories.com/lauraedgar/ North Yorkshire & East Yorkshire places we also mentioned: Millington Woods Thixendale Hornsea Pocklington Nunnington Sheriff Hutton Boggle Hole Sandsend Driffield Yorkshire Arboretum https://www.yorkshirearboretum.org/ Castle Howard https://www.castlehoward.co.uk/ Nunnington Hall https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/nunnington-hall Nunnington Galleries https://www.nunningtongalleries.co.uk/ Salt gallery, Beverley https://www.galleryatsalt.co.uk/about And here are a couple of links to some lovely photographs around different areas of Yorkshire: https://www.countryliving.com/uk/wildlife/countryside/a518/pictures-of-yorkshire-that-are-so-beautiful-it-hurts/ https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/incoming/gallery/beautiful-yorkshire-300714-7533874 https://unsplash.com/s/photos/yorkshire  

Welcome back to the season finale of Past Loves - the weekly history podcast that explores affection, infatuation and attachment across time.This week I am joined by an absolutely incredible guest the 11th Duchess of Rutland to discuss the relationship between the 5th Duke and Duchess, John Henry and Elizabeth.Together they created the most magical fairy-tale castle - Belvoir Castle. When Elizabeth arrived at Belvoir as a young bride, she was not inspired by the building currently looking out across the Vale of Belvoir. Instead, this remarkable Regency power couple wanted to make a statement all of their own and with this, the romantic castle that we now see today was born. They entertained in the most fabulous way and left an indelible mark on society and the British landscape. Today, you may recognise Belvoir from Netflix's The Crown, The Young Victoria (2009) or Victoria & Abdul (2017). But, whilst it may be a firm favourite of Hollywood, John Henry and Elizabeth are truly the heart of the breathtaking Belvoir Castle.Where To Find UsBook tickets for Belvoir Castle: https://www.belvoircastle.com/castle-book-tickets/Take the virtual tour: https://www.belvoircastle.com/product/virtual-tour-product/Follow Belvoir Castle on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/belvoircastle/Follow Past Loves on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pastlovespodcast/ Shop Her Grace's book Belvoir Castle: A Thousand Years of Family Art and Architecture: https://www.belvoircastle.com/product/belvoir-castle-a-thousand-years-of-family-art-and-architecture/Learn more about Elizabeth's parents' love story in the Castle Howard episode: https://www.buzzsprout.com/997147/4052561Listen To Victoria & Albert episode with Helen Rappaport: https://www.buzzsprout.com/997147/3782192Watch Phil Spencer's Stately Homes: https://www.channel4.com/programmes/phil-spencers-stately-homesJoin the Past Loves newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/d293dd27393a/past-loves-newsletterIf Past Loves has become your current love, you can email me at pastlovespodcast@gmail.com

Sparked off by a 1975 book about the dress collection then at Castle Howard, we talk about dressing up in historic clothes and the difficulties with trying to recreate the past. See links below. Present & Correct, Desk trolley: https://www.presentandcorrect.com/products/oak-desk-trolley Naruhito (photographer), Costume at Castle Howard (Castle Howard Estate, 1975): https://www.worldcat.org/title/costume-at-castle-howard/oclc/2543171/editions Castle Howard, Sale, Sotheby’s (7 October 2003): https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2003/castle-howard-w03843/lot.1.html The Gallery of English Costume: Picture Books (1949-1977): https://tinyurl.com/yxd85mqu Cecil Smith, Guide to the English Costumes Presented by Messrs. Harrods Ltd (V&A 1913): https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b000993584&view=1up&seq=7 Christina Broom, The Historical Pageant of the Women's Coronation Procession (17 June 1911): https://collections.museumoflondon.org.uk/online/object/437264.html, also: https://collections.museumoflondon.org.uk/online/object/437263.html https://collections.museumoflondon.org.uk/online/object/455275.html Beatrice Behlen, A fashion for women’s suffrage, Museum of London – Discover (27 April 2016): https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/fashion-womens-suffrage

Ionica is a British stage and screen Actress. She was born and adopted from Romania at the age of 2 and a half years old. Ionica trained at East 15 Acting School in 2008. Ionica is currently featuring in Documentary, 'The Acting Class', alongside Maxine Peake, Julie Hesmondhalgh, Samuel West & Christopher Eccleston – showing across cinemas now. Ionica has recently wrapped on Feature Film, 'Schadenfreude', produced by Steve Sweeney which is later to be released. Ionica sang at the Closing Ceremony at the Newcastle Film Festival and at 2018's Festival of Remembrance at York Barbican. Ionica was nominated and awarded as 'Best Emerging Actress' at 2018's International Achievement Recognition Awards (IARA) for her role as 'Genie' in 'Aladdin' in 2018 following with the role of 'Carabosse' in 'Sleeping Beauty' at The Princess Theatre, Torquay, 2019.Ionica can be seen as a Judge on BBC One's second series of ‘All Together Now' (Celebrity Special & Ep 1-6). Ionica is a former Presenter at BBC Radio York presenting the Arts & Culture show every Friday evening, 7-10pm. Ionica hosted at 'MOVE IT', 'Can You Dance?' 2019 and was booked again for 'MOVE IT 2020' – Ionica also hosted the ‘Hospitality Talks Stage' at BBC Country File Live, Castle Howard, 2019. Ionica finished her run as 'Fairy Godmother' in 2019/2020 ‘Cinderella' at The Elgiva, Chesham.Ionica can be currently seen in commercials on Ideal World and Beth Macari's Charity video, 'I Am'. During lock down Ionica has been a judge for several 'Bake Offs' after The launch of the 'Singing Baker That Can't Really Bake' during lock down. Due to Ionica's history she is a Guest Speaker/Motivational Speaker at events and graduations. During lock down Ionica spoke at the Lancet Webinar supporting the 'ForEveryChildAHome' talk.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends October 31st 2020. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references:johnnylyle.co.uk/about-branding/ Transcription:Kelly Molson:Welcome to Skip the Queue. A podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. These chats are fun, informative, and hopefully always interesting. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the YouTube channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson:In today's episode, I speak with Johnny Lyle, a Marketing and Digital Director for the attractions industries. Johnny advises Sundown Adventureland, and Audley End Miniature Railway. And in the past, he's worked with the BeWILDerwood, won a coveted DBA gold award, and Drum Grand Prix for the best marketing launch. We discuss how he's advised attractions about digital marketing throughout lockdown, and what lies ahead for attractions in the UK.Kelly Molson:Johnny, welcome to the podcast. It's so lovely to have you on today.Johnny Lyle:Well, thank you for having me.Kelly Molson:So we were introduced quite early on in lockdown weren't we by a mutual friend of ours, lovely Rachel. And I think for me, that's been one of the really great things about this situation. Always looking at the positives. I've been able to talk to some really interesting and really fun people because everyone's had a little bit more time to give up, but we don't know each other that well. So what I'd like to do at the beginning of any of our podcast interviews is just do a little icebreaker round. Now you haven't been able to prepare any answers for this, so you don't know what's coming. You look worried.Johnny Lyle:Yeah, I am.Kelly Molson:Don't be. Right. Okay. So first question. Do you prefer books or podcasts?Johnny Lyle:Books. As you can see on the video with about how many books I'm surrounded by.Kelly Molson:There's something about the smell isn't there for me. That's what does it for me. I've never been a big fan of a Kindle. I like to have that kind of paper feeling and that smell.Johnny Lyle:Most of my readings is on a Kindle now, to be honest, but these are the books that I can't part with. So I've read every one in here and these are the ones I won't part with. There's lots more I read, but these are only the ones my favorites.Kelly Molson:Good, we'll come to that later because I've got a question about a book for you. What is the worst job that you've ever had?Johnny Lyle:When I was at university I was temping and I did two. One of them was delivering for a soft drinks company into pubs at four o'clock in the morning, five o'clock in the morning. And the other one was genuinely working at a tip, picking up the rubbish, that had blown up onto the fence around the outside. So the job site was Womble as a litter picker in a rubbish tip.Kelly Molson:Actually Womble.Johnny Lyle:Which was actually very well paid because no one wanted to do it, allowed me to buy a car in my first year of university. So it was good.Kelly Molson:A means to an end. It was a good job. Final icebreaker question. This is my favorite question. So can you tell me something that's true to you that almost nobody agrees with you on? So what is your unpopular opinion?Johnny Lyle:That Oxford United are worthy winners in tomorrow's and Monday's playoffs and should have always been in the championship or the premiership.Kelly Molson:I feel like this is controversial.Johnny Lyle:It's not controversial for me. It's an absolute fact.Kelly Molson:Thank you for sharing. We'll leave that there.Johnny Lyle:But depending on when this goes out, I might already have been proved wrong, I don't know, if we lose the playoff.Kelly Molson:Okay. You are a marketing specialist working in the attraction sector. How long have you been working in the industry and what's a typical project for you?Johnny Lyle:So officially, the first project I did started about 2007. At the time I was running a brand consultancy, and I had just lost my father and was offered a project to work in house with a client for a period of time for a company called Treehouse Company, getting ready. They had a new product called The Bothy Lodge Company and they wanted to take it to IPO. So I went in a acting Market Director for a few months to get them ready for that. Treehouse company had a contract to build a tree house adventure play place over in Norfolk, which at the time was going to be called Kingswater, which ultimately became BeWILDerwood.Kelly Molson:Great. Yeah, that went well.Johnny Lyle:So I met my now very, very good friend, Simon Egan, who I still work with because we've now got a company together, CAPCo where we build great big adventure, play things. We've done Castle Howard, and Culzean, and Lowther Castle, and Fort Douglas and places like that. So we started that and it just took off our plan was to have 35,000 visitors a year in the first year. And we got 12,000 in the second week.Kelly Molson:Gosh.Johnny Lyle:And then it just went ballistic. It was just total overnight success it won a THEA as the Best Children's Attraction in the worldish at the time. It won DBA gold, it won the Drum Grand Prix for Best Marketing Launch.Johnny Lyle:It just cleaned up it won everything. A Treehouse Company won tons as well that year actually as well. So it was quite good. And then from that, just more and more people asked me whether I would get involved with them. And eventually, I left the design agency, my own design agency and sold it to my partners, so I could focus more on this.Kelly Molson:Nice.Johnny Lyle:So probably eight years full time now in doing this.Kelly Molson:So as an agency owner myself, you've got a coveted DBA award.Johnny Lyle:Yeah. And it was the first time we'd ever entered that. And it was the same year as the launch of the MINI. So we were up there with... And the Beijing Olympics won, I think at the same time as well, or was that when we won the THEA? So it was a good year.Kelly Molson:Nice. So it's eight years that you've been working as a Consultant. What kind of things do you get involved in now? How do you advise attractions?Johnny Lyle:There's two sort of typical... Sure you'd expect me to say there's nothing typical, but there's two types of work. The first one is when an attraction's failing or something's gone wrong. A couple of years ago, I had two in succession where the digital agency had built the website and left it blocked from Google as they launched it, and cost them all of their web traffic. And so I went into find out what was wrong and sort it out. And then the second is when they want a new way of thinking. So it might be reviewing their internal team. It might be to reposition the attraction. So the one near South of Walden that you know well is Audley End Miniature Railway. So we moved that from being a minute railway, the old miniature railway enthusiastic would go to, into being a family attraction where young families would go.Johnny Lyle:And in doing so, again, grew it from 50,000 to 110,000 a year in profitability. So those are the sorts of things, but I guess the main part of it is I don't want to be the one necessarily going in and actually doing the work. I'd much rather if there was already an in house team there and they needed training, or upskilling or help with some rethinking really more than anything. I'm certainly not trying to go in and replace anyone. I don't want their jobs. I'm not a threat to them. In theory, I should only ever be an asset to them.Kelly Molson:So how has it been for you throughout this period? Attractions have been closed, it's been really difficult. You talked a little bit there about a typical project for you, taking the visitor numbers from 50,000 up to a 100,000 plus. At the moment, that's really challenging. We've got attractions that have got capped to capacity. They can only take so many people through the doors and that's if some of them can open and they're able to open within the restrictions that we've currently have in terms of people's safety. So how has it been for you during lockdown? What have you been able to help them with and advise them with?Johnny Lyle:The main thing for me was continuing to communicate. Is actually keep talking, try and keep front of mind because with everyone, loads of people just furloughed all their marketing stuff almost overnight. So that made it really difficult because there weren't people that do the work. So it's been trying to keep a low level of communication without certainly not whining, keeping positive, keeping sort of say, "We're really looking forward to having you back when we can." And making sure that they could see that you were taking every step to protect them going forward. And it's still a fun place to look forward to coming back to. But it was a real challenge because almost everyone switched off. I think everyone went into total rabbit in the headlights, no one knew what to do.Johnny Lyle:So certainly the attractions I worked with, they just went very, very quiet. There was big stress in terms of choosing when to close. And I think with the ones I worked with the most closely, they closed early, they actually went a bit early and got really, really good feedback from their customers for it in both cases, in the two I worked very closely with. So now it's a case of making sure you don't go back too early, and don't suddenly aim for as big a capacity as you could possibly get away with because I just don't think people are going to feel safe.Kelly Molson:Yeah, I think you're right actually. And that's similar conversations that we've been having with our clients is they need to be ready, and they need to make sure that they've worked through the procedures and they need to make sure that it is safe, and welcoming, and a happy place for people to be back out. So I think you're totally right about people not rushing into reopen, it's the right way to approach it. We've had similar conversations with the clients that we work for in terms of trying to keep that conversation going, even while you're closed. If you can't be open and have people there still be part of that conversation, did you speak to any clients around virtual tours or producing content that people could use at home as well?Johnny Lyle:We did a lot of that. Sundown Adventureland it was a peaceful old attraction. They produced a lot things for kids to do at home. So there's lots of coloring, lots of little puzzles and all sorts of bits. And we did one behind the scenes tour about how one of the rides was actually made for those who were interested. And that went really well. And I think that was one of my lessons I think was be generous, give stuff away because it will come back. You'll be rewarded by being generous. Don't be grabby at all. I think there was people charging for some of these downloads at one point and that very, very quickly got stopped. So the ones I worked with didn't do masses because they're not particularly big attractions. They're like up to 300,000ish that tends to be where I work. So they didn't do masses because they don't necessarily have really, really distant appeal. They're still relatively local markets. So it was a balance between keeping them on board, and not talking to them too much again on the nerves.Kelly Molson:Yeah. It's a fine line, isn't it? Because, like you say, a lot of the teams were furloughed and they're running a really scale back skeleton team. You want to help, but you don't want to be imposing. You don't want to be a burden or an annoyance to them at any point as well.Johnny Lyle:But the big opportunity that I think we did take was it was a fabulous opportunity. The other guy Blink, there was that little story about Pepsi and Coke in the Cola Wars. Was it was a brilliant opportunity to really work on your SEO and really work on your content of your site. So I did a lot of that, a lot of groundwork and a lot of work on Google Business, looking at local links and citations and getting that groundwork in that will come back when people start searching again for what to do. And that was, I've loved that that's been brilliant and I'm quite looking forward to seeing what the results of some of those are going to be.Kelly Molson:Yeah, that's nice, isn't it? Like you say, put the groundwork in while you were closed. If you could focus on some of those things, getting all your ducks in a row, as they say.Johnny Lyle:Yeah.Kelly Molson:You're going to be in a better place for when you open. The weekend is approaching where attractions, if they can and are able to open safely, they will be. What's the current mood like with some of your attractions as they start to plan that opening?Johnny Lyle:Nervous, I think. And I think nervous for their teams as well because they're very close to their teams. They want to make sure they're not putting their own teams at risk, but the business model is going to be completely different. The critical bit in the first few weeks is going to be TripAdvisor reviews and Facebook reviews. What people say, because they're going to make or break attractions, I think in the next few weeks. And if people have gone into... They're going to allow too many people in and people don't feel safe, they're not going to be afraid to tell other people.Johnny Lyle:And I think then you will destroy the whole of the rest of your year, if you try and take too many. If you go much above 30% capacity, 40% capacity by the summer, then I think you really are taking a massive risk. And the next big one I think is going to be most attractions, have an indoor Christmas experience. If you get it wrong now you're not going to have any form of indoor Christmas experience either. You've got to get it right. You've got to not take too much or try and take too much now because otherwise I think you could lose everything.Kelly Molson:Gosh, it is quite frightening to think about that, isn't it? Christmas at the moment seems like really far away, but obviously we know that a lot of the Christmas campaigns start to be planned now...Johnny Lyle:Yeah.Kelly Molson:..If not just before now. And things like Halloween and those kind of activities too start to be planned. It's just really difficult even with a capacity of 30%, like you say, that's been set, we still don't really know if they're going to achieve that. What we've seen recently, which has been brilliant is the overwhelming demand for zoos and outdoor activities.Johnny Lyle:Yeah.Kelly Molson:We're not sure that we're going to get the same surgence for indoor attractions, and that's the big challenge for them I think at the moment.Johnny Lyle:No, people are still definitely more nervous about indoor, aren't they? There's no doubt about that. The problem is though, I think for a lot of attractions. Their business model's got to change because if you think a lot of attractions, summer can be 30%, 40% of turnover. Christmas can again be 25, 30% of turnover. If you could only operate on 30, 40% capacity on your biggest months, then your business model means you're already going to do 40% of your annual turnover potentially. So you've got to be able to get through until at the earliest next summer I think before we could be back to any form of normality.Kelly Molson:So what kind of things have you been advising your clients that they can do now, and then they can continue to do for the future? Because the bigger question is what is the future for attractions? And at the moment, that's a really tough question to ask because I think that most of us sitting here, we don't know what the next two weeks will bring, let alone where the next two months will bring. But what are your thoughts on what attractions can do now to start boostering their marketing? Have you been looking at advising your clients about what they can do now and for the next few months?Johnny Lyle:I think the main thing is trying to welcome people back, trying to make sure that it is fun. It's more about having fun than them thinking they're at risk. If they're walking into an attraction, looking over their shoulder thinking, "Oh, I wonder if he's got it. I wonder if they've got it." Then they're not going to come back. So the main one I've been rabbiting on about all the time is making sure that your staff are smiling because that smile first ask questions later has always been something I've tried to work to. And I think if you don't make it a fun place to be first and foremost, people won't come back. Other than that, it's hunker down and make sure you try, and keep your costs to an absolute minimum and maximize the fun and try and survive. I know that sounds incredibly negative, unless you've really done the math, I think it's going to be an incredibly tough period for most attractions.Johnny Lyle:Particularly, the ones who are highly geared. So the ones who borrowed money, big money in the last few years, and they're dependent on the numbers. Like the Merlins of this world, who they are going to find it very, very tough. Because I know people will go back, I know they're open and that you can walk around the grounds now. They're going to be operating on tiny capacities, aren't they?Kelly Molson:Yeah, I guess that's something that we've been talking a little bit about the last couple of weeks at the studio actually, maximizing the revenue from the visitors that can come through your doors. How are you looking at the retail environment that you've got on site? Most attractions are opening and offering booking time slots. So that's something that we've been talking to our clients about. Can they book food slots while they're there? Can they book a slot in the retail environment so that they feel safer, but also you're driving them to maybe while they're there just capture as much revenue from them as you possibly can. At that point. I don't know if that's something that you've been talking to your clients about as well?Johnny Lyle:Not much, but I did a big Zoom the other day with about 10 attractions, the CAPco clients, we spoke to a lot of them. And one really interesting one was Bean who runs Chobham Adventure Farm, he's a real innovator. So they're doing it on time slots, two or three hour time slots can't remember. But each of the people who are booking are being allocated a table within the place as well. They're doing full food service, it's still you walk up and you get your food, but there's obviously social distancing within the queuing because food is a really important part of their offer. But they're also offering the ability for people to upgrade. It's a bit [inaudible 00:18:02], but you can actually choose which table you want for a little bit extra.Kelly Molson:Okay.Johnny Lyle:So you can get a table in one of the better areas.Johnny Lyle:I think there's a real danger though that attractions are... If you're caught profiteering. If you're caught putting prices up, if you're caught doing anything like that, then again that will come back and haunt you. It'll come back in reviews. And we've seen that on Amazon, actually, Amazon have kicked off a lot of suppliers who were profiteering who were doing the 500 pound toilet roll trick or whatever. If they're doing it, then TripAdvisor, Facebook, they're going to do it just from your reviews. So I think it's about trying to increase the well time, so that people will eat. Retail is going to be really difficult because all the advice has come from the government and that has come from fan and all the other bodies has said, don't direct people out through your shop.Johnny Lyle:So retail in attractions is going to be very hard hit. But I think what we've looked at is more pop ups is to make more other small places around the park. So actually you can go and get an ice cream; you can go and get a drink; you can go and get a slushee; you can go and buy a memento somewhere else. So it's not all in one big retail environment.Kelly Molson:Right, so you're not funneling people through that area. I guess, it's hard to swallow because we do obviously have to consider that a lot of us are going to be... This is a difficult time for so many people and we're going to be struggling in time in terms of what money we actually have coming in. So not everybody's going to have the same amount of free money that they had to spend previously, isn't it? And you need to get that marketing... you need to get it really right. It has to be really sympathetic and empathetic.Johnny Lyle:Yeah. But a lot of people have been furloughed remember, and being on full pay or 80% pay sitting at home, doing nothing with almost no outgoing. So all the research again showed a different view, did a lot of research, and ALVA did a lot of research. All of that research said in the sentiment surveys that people weren't expecting to be discounted, they were quite happy to come back and pay full price. And I think we've seen that already again with the zoos. I know we have with Cotswold Wildlife Park as well, even at some of the bits the attractions are closed. They're actually still quite happy to come in and pay, which is really encouraging. I guess at this stage, it's probably the very loyal customers who are coming back first and some of the others will be more choosy.Johnny Lyle:I've seen a lot of talk on Facebook again from customers saying, "It's too early for us yet. We're still shielding." Or, "Little Doris is not well enough. We don't want to take that risk." So if you make it, so it's a great place to be for your regular customers and try and live off that, and work with them and make sure they have a great time. Then the others will come back. I'm sure.Kelly Molson:Yeah. So big question. And I know it's probably one that can't be answered, but what do you think that the future looks like for attractions in the UK?Johnny Lyle:I think it's going to be tough. I think there'll be some weeding out. I think there's going to be a big unemployment hit, which is going to be harder for attractions because whilst people are on furlough, they're not being laid off by companies and we're already seeing it in the Northwest. There's some adjustment, Airbus are laying people off. I think Derby, Rolls-Royce are laying people off. There's going to be layoffs in some quite big numbers around. So that's going to hit the economy very hard and it's still a discretionary spend. So you just got to make sure that we deliver great value and great fun and an escape. The advantage we've got this year is that less people are going to be traveling overseas. So more people are going to be staycationing and enjoying what's around them.Johnny Lyle:But I don't think I've got any specific longterm thoughts yet. We've just got to see how this emerges as we come out. But I think the weaker ones will really struggle. We've already seen it in our football. I know you like your football as well, but Wigan are going out of business and there's going to be others like that, aren't there? And football is a bit of a mess in lots of ways. So I think the attraction because it's again, a discretionary spend. It's something that people do for fun is going to be challenged.Kelly Molson:Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned football. I might as well get it out in the open about being a Tottenham fan, which-Johnny Lyle:I knew that.Kelly Molson:... has its pros and cons. Similarly, Lee and I have both got... we have season tickets and we have no idea when we're going to go back and we have no idea how that's going to work or.Johnny Lyle:Yeah. If you take some of the bigger attractions, one of my favorite attractions I've ever been to is Puy du Fou in France, incredible. No rides, but all shows. It's got 10 different shows. It's the most incredible attraction I've ever been to. And then you've got there's the one Kynren up in Newcastle, or North East, which I've been to as well, which grew from Puy du Fou. On the big evening show at Puy du Fou it only runs about 50 nights a year or so. They've got 14,000 people in a stand, all right next to each other, sitting next to each other and 2000 people in the cast, how are they going to run that? It can't run unless you can fill it because it can't possibly be profitable. It's going to be so difficult for them.Johnny Lyle:And they're going to have to adjust their business model. They're either going to have to build massive temporary stands to allow that many people to sit there, but be twice as far apart, or they're going to say, "Well, we're outside anyway. So it'll probably be okay." There's really obviously really major adjustments to come. And I think one of the other ones, again, I know I mentioned Merlin before. If you take the big rides, the really big thrill rides. A lot of the time on those rides is spent in the pre-show is the queuing section, and the pre-show evolved because they were trying to make it so you weren't really queuing you were actually enjoying the pre-show. You were being warmed up, ready for the ride. Most of those are indoors. A lot of those are going to have to be removed.Johnny Lyle:So if all you're going to do is walk straight onto the front a long social distance queue and then walk and get onto the ride without as much as the pre-show, it's just not going to be as much fun. You're not going to have be warmed up in the same way. So you're not going to be having the same level expectation about that ride. So that will be quite different, I think again.Kelly Molson:Yep. So opening up, but still it's a long journey, a long road ahead for many of the attractions and the way that they're set up. And lots of changes that's going to need to be made.Johnny Lyle:I sound like I'm being really negative and I don't mean to be, but I'm trying to be pragmatic and think of what you can do. So much of that is still come back to the welcome. It's got to be about the welcome, and make sure that the ones you can get and the ones who are, that you just absolutely welcome them with open arms and make them feel safe and loved. And as though they're going to have a great day, help them have a great day. Because that's what going out to these places is like, is it has to be about having a great day?Kelly Molson:So when I spoke to Ben, he talked a lot about the front of house, and actually it's the front of house team that really make that experience. And we know that, we know that if you arrive somewhere and it feels magical because the people are magical. That's the start of the fun, isn't it?Johnny Lyle:Yeah.Kelly Molson:So I completely, I completely hear where you're coming from and it's a difficult question. We just don't know what's coming next, but you're right. If you are able to bring back people, make them feel as welcome and as happy, they're in the best place in the world. What at the moment, what's the biggest challenge that you have with your role at the moment? And how do you think that you'll overcome it?Johnny Lyle:I think my biggest challenge is being 54. It's being a Digital Marketing Specialist at 54. A lot of people assume it's a young person's game. And so at the moment, I'm still lucky enough to be taken seriously by people with it because I've got a track record. But I think as I get another few years on, are you going to want a 60 year old to come in and look at your digital marketing? And I don't know whether people will. So it's a completely personal thing and I think that's going to be difficult. So I think I've got to evolve more into leading and training than actually doing, but I'm interested enough to keep seeing what matters and what's changing, but I guess that's going to get harder and harder. You're lucky. You're really young.Kelly Molson:Not that young, but yeah, it's not that long. You haven't got many years on me. You'd be surprised. I hear what you're saying though. I look at that and think, "Well, I run a digital agency now, but I'm 42. Again, what will I be when I'm 50. Will I be running the digital age? I don't know." I guess that's the same kind of perception.Johnny Lyle:I've been talking about that a lot with my family, to be honest. And it's one, I've always got some form of side hustle going. I've always got some online business that I'm running somewhere or that I'm trialing. And I guess it's have another go at some of them and see where they emerge, but really continue to focus on, I think more to do more towards training and leadership and overviewing than actually doing. Because with one of my clients, I still actually do all the work. I still write all the content and produce all the social media stuff. Which is brilliant because it keeps you very, very close so that you can see what works, and you can measure what works. But I can't see myself being able to do that or wanting to do that and another five years, to be honest.Kelly Molson:So one of the things that are at the beginning of the podcast, I said, we were introduced by a mutual friend. This has been one of the positives that I can take from this period is that I've had time, and people who have been generous to give me their time to chat and just to meet really interesting people. What's the biggest surprise that you've had over the last few months and why?Johnny Lyle:Well, you asked me a question earlier about, what's my unpopular opinion. And I almost used this one then. And I think it's how nice the weather is when there's no planes flying and there's no cars on the road because I just can't believe the two are unrelated. If we chucking pollution into the top of the sky with planes, then we're going to make clouds and we're not going to have nice weather. I'll say that now instead of you chucking that outside, but nevermind. But the traffic has picked right back up again. And I think I was surprised. I was really nervous at first about taking this forced time off. Because I've never really done it before.Johnny Lyle:And I was nervous about what the future held and work and the like. Actually, I just relaxed into it really quickly and I thoroughly enjoyed it. And I've baked a load of bread and I've made a load of lovely food and we've walked the entire Werl coastline, and poor dog is exhausted from it. And just actually enjoyed a slower pace of life that I've genuinely never had since I started my first business at 23.Kelly Molson:Yeah. It's nice. It's been again, that's definitely a plus reconnecting a little bit more with nature and just taking that time that we've been... I guess we have to say that we've been gifted it just to slow things down a little bit.Johnny Lyle:Yeah. I've mostly sat down at my desk, nearly every day still. So I didn't completely get out of the habit of it, but I very rarely worked beyond three o'clock and by three o'clock, "Oh, gin and tonic." And sit out in the garden, put my feet up and read my book. It's sweet.Kelly Molson:Delightful. Okay book. Well, that brings us onto our last question. So we like to ask our guests, if they have a book that they would recommend that's helped shaped your career.Johnny Lyle:I'm going to cheat. I can't narrow it down to one. So I'm going nar... I'm going to narrow it down to-Kelly Molson:You're going to do two aren't you? Three? You're killing me.Johnny Lyle:Right three. 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey. I read it probably 20 years ago for the first time. The live, love leave a legacy that bit about making sure you think about what you leave behind was critical. It changed everything about the way I thought that's the first one. The second one, which is directly related to be honest, is Five People You Meet In Heaven by Mitch Albom. Which shows the effect of what you're saying, and what you're doing has on other people. And makes you much more conscious of the impact you can have consciously, or subconsciously really does make you moderate your behavior. Because I'm prone to be a loud mouth know all. And I've really learned to think about what I'm saying because of that.Johnny Lyle:And then the third one, which is absolutely brilliant everyone should read it is called Fish! by Stephen Lundin, which is about the guys who work in Seattle fish market. And it's all about choose your attitude. You absolutely undoubtedly choose your attitude. You decide what you want to be when you get into work. That was fantastic. Then again, in my design agency days, we put a whole staff through a training session on that. We did a whole day training session just with that one book and film. And they all have had a massive positive impact on me as well as about 10,000 other books. Those are the three that I could narrow it down to.Kelly Molson:Great. I mean great choices, but also you guys are blowing my book budget because what we do is we offer people the chance to win the book. But now it's books. Ben had two books as well, you're killing me. Okay.Johnny Lyle:Sorry.Kelly Molson:If you'd like to win a copy of Johnny's books, then if you head over to our Twitter account, which is Skip the Queue, and you retweet this episode announcement with the comment "I want Johnny's books.", Then you'll be in with a chance of winning them. Them, "Ah." Better get my Amazon order in now.Johnny Lyle:Our daughter runs a coffee shop in Nottingham. And she has just started getting into it. "I wanted to develop myself. I want to get better." And so I sent her a copy of the Fish! Book as one to start with. And she was totally and utterly blown away with it and is now buying copies of it herself for all her staff, and actually running a training session with all her staff. Just to go through that because it had such an impact on her.Kelly Molson:No, well, that's a good sign of a book, isn't it? I think we've done that a few times where books have had a real moment with us. And we've given copies of them to our clients, or we've given copies of them to people that have referred or things like that. So that's a real testament to a good book.Johnny Lyle:Well, I'm second hand on Amazon, they're only a few pence then you pay £2.80 delivery. It's got to be worth it. You don't even need to buy them new, buy the secondhand recycle them. Get books-Kelly Molson:I'm happy with second hand books, it's what you might all be getting listeners.Johnny Lyle:Yeah. Don't buy new, buy second hands. There's no point in wasting more paper printing new ones when there's loads of old copies of about.Kelly Molson:Johnny, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It's been really real pleasure to have you on. Lots of changes come in. It'll be interesting to see what the next few months look like. Maybe we can catch up again after Christmas and see where we're all at.Johnny Lyle:Yeah. Christmas is going to be the big one, isn't it? Let's see what state everyone's in when we get to Christmas. And then smile our way through Christmas and then have a brilliant next year. I think we've got to write this year off and then have a brilliant one next year.Kelly Molson:2021's the one.Johnny Lyle:Yeah, it is.Kelly Molson:All right. Thanks Johnny.Johnny Lyle:Thanks Kelly.Kelly Molson:Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.

Welcome once again to a very special episode of Past Loves - the new weekly history podcast that explores affection, infatuation and attachment across time.This week I am joined by two guests, Nick Howard and Chris Ridgway. Chris is Castle Howard's curator and since 1984, he has lectured nationally and internationally about the history of this historic house near York. Nick, conversely, is a descendant of the Howard family and resides in this most glorious of stately homes, synonymous with Brideshead Revisited, today.Both lead us through three centuries of the Howard family, highlighting the love stories intertwined across time into the branches of this family tree. From the daughter of the 3rd Earl of Carlisle, Anne, to George and Cecilia the couple that opened Castle Howard to the public, this episode reveals a rich family history that exemplifies the importance of celebrating centuries of affection.Where To Find UsFor more information about visiting Castle Howard and to book your tickets: https://www.castlehoward.co.uk/Follow Castle Howard on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/castle_howard/Follow Past Loves on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pastlovespodcast/ You can find the transcript for the episode: https://pastlovespodcast.co.uk/2020/06/05/castle-howard/ If Past Loves has become your current love you or you have any tips on researching family history, you can email me at pastlovespodcast@gmail.com

Welcome to Past Loves - the new weekly history podcast that explores affection, infatuation and attachment across time. This week I am joined by author, art historian, public speaker and broadcaster Lucinda Hawksley to discuss the relationship between Katey Dickens, Charles Dickens’s artistic daughter, and her second husband Carlo Perugini.As the great great great granddaughter of Charles and Catherine Dickens and the author of Dickens's Artistic Daughter Katey: Her Life, Loves & Impact, Lucinda is extremely well placed to discuss this true love match between the Peruginis - a love match rooted in the artistic world of the Pre-Raphaelite movement. This is a story about equality, companionship and a second chance at finding love.Where To Find Us Follow Past Loves on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pastlovespodcast/ Follow Lucinda on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucindahawksley/ Shop Lucinda's book Dickens's Artistic Daughter Katey: Her Life, Loves & Impact: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Dickenss-Artistic-Daughter-Katey-Paperback/p/14728 Shop Lucinda's book Lizzie Siddal: The Tragedy of a Pre-Raphaelite Supermodel: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lizzie-Siddal-Lucinda-Dickens-Hawksley/dp/0233005072/ As Mentioned In The IntroductionFind out more about Castle Howard's Brideshead Revisited webinar on 28th May 2020 HERESign up for talks at the York Festival of Ideas (2nd-14th June 2020): http://yorkfestivalofideas.com/2020-online/Discover the Hay Festival schedule (22nd - 31st May 2020): https://www.hayfestival.com/homeYou can find the transcript for the episode HERE If Past Loves has become your current love you can also email me at pastlovespodcast@gmail.com

In the third and final episode of the Castle Howard trilogy, you’re introduced to head of gardens and landscapes, Alastair Gunn. Starting in one of the estate’s rose gardens, we meet a stunning, rare, white china rose, thought to be a devoniensis, planted over 40 years ago. Alastair has been on the team for just over two years, coming from managing the gardens at Hatfield House, but he’s very much committed to bringing life back to the gardens with a mandate to renovate, restore and ‘zhuzh things up’ - a challenge he’s clearly than risen to. Alastair explains the challenges of working in a different parts of the country, with different soil and vastly differing seasons and conditions. From roses to rhubarb and Read Dead Redemption 2, this conversation is full of interesting and funny moments, including an idea to pioneer Japanese Knotweed Gin, or crumble (for the under 18’s). For further information on this and other episodes, visit: http://www.treesacrowd.fm/alastair-gunn/ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In the second episode of the Castle Howard trilogy, meet the head of forestry, Nick Cooke. Nick has been part of the team looking after the estate since 1975, and over the years has had to figure out how to maintain the extensive forests, all-in-all covering over 60 miles of pathways. Arriving in the ‘70s to take up a placement at the castle’s Ray Wood, Nick stood open-mouthed as he faced the estate’s obelisk and knew that he would be here for a long, long time. On a walking tour through bluebells and briars, Nick points out the oakwoods that call the castle home, the rhododendrons remaining from an ornamental garden, and gestures towards the mixed woodlands where wildflowers are thriving. Of the 816 hectares of land, 550 are designated ancient woodland sites - but they are much more than that now, under Nick’s care, the 300-year old site has been transformed into a stunning botanical collection, a producer of timber, a tree nursery and an area rich with biodiversity. This conversation takes so many paths, from hornbeams, to sowing seeds and contraception for squirrels - you won’t be disappointed! For further information on this and other episodes, visit: http://www.treesacrowd.fm/nick-cooke/ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

We begin this trilogy of episodes at Castle Howard, with Nick Howard himself. Most recognisable to the public from the television show “Brideshead Revisited”, but for Nick the Castle Howard estate was his childhood home, a place where he felt such a distinct sense of freedom roaming around its gardens - at least until the cowbell was rung to call him back in for lunch. Nick now oversees care for its grounds with a desire to better connect the caretaking practises with the will of nature. As he guides you around each of the estate’s stunning features, from The Temple of the Four Winds, to the Mausoleum and Pyramid, Nick gives an insight into the estate’s history, and how it links back to his ancestors who made the castle a reality. Stay tuned for the story of Ferdinand and Imelda, two extremely territorial swans who’ve taken ownership of a large stretch of water in the grounds, who join the 3rd Earl of Carlisle, Lord William Howard, and many others in calling Caste Howard their home. For further information on this and other episodes, visit: http://www.treesacrowd.fm/nick-howard/ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Castle Howard is a stunning stately home in rural North Yorkshire, designed by Sir John Vanbrugh back in 1699 for the third Earl of Carlisle. Since the 50s, Castle Howard has been a visitor attraction, welcoming around 300,000 visitors a year.In todays podcast, we’ll hear from Abbigail Ollive, Head of Marketing as she shares with us a beautiful story, of how China fell in love with the Castle, and how one wedding started a chain reaction of incredible events leading them to increase overseas visitors to around 60%.Castle Howard was one of the first attractions in the UK to install the WeChat pay solutions across shops, restaurants, ticket office and we’ll hear all about the challenges, success and specialist they worked with to make that happen.It’s a wonderful example of how implementing small things can make huge differences to a visitors experience, and we know you’ll learn a lot from their unique story.A few things we discussed:The importance of understanding our audience and catering specifically for their needsIf it’s difficult to integrate WeChat and Alipay for Chinese visitorsHow to create a digital guest experience that’s second to noneWhy you need to be proactive in changing and adapting your marketing strategyWhy you need to work with sector specialistsHow empowering your front of house team to be super helpful creates the ultimate experience for your guestsWe hope you enjoy! Show references:https://www.castlehoward.co.uk/https://www.digipanda.co.uk/https://www.wechat.com/en/https://intl.alipay.com/https://www.capelatraining.com/china/https://www.globepay.co/https://www.ukinbound.org/https://www.visitbritain.com/gb/enhttps://www.etoa.org/

In this week's episode we have previous pod feedback, talk Kipchoge's 1:59 and relevant parkrun pace, we have bountiful arbitraries and thingies, the usual stats, we touch upon the Dunbar number whilst Nicola was at Castle Howard parkrun and Danny was at Squerryes Winery parkrun.

In the late 1990s, Old Master drawings expert Julien Stock made an incredible discovery—a previously unknown Michelangelo drawing. Hiding in an unmarked book at England’s Castle Howard, the study of a mourning woman from early in Michelangelo’s career had not been seen for generations. This drawing is now part of the Getty Museum’s collection. In … Continue reading "Julien Stock on Discovering a New Michelangelo"

England er meget mere end London Når vi danskere rejser til England, så går turen oftest til London. Men England har meget mere at byde på. Blandt andet eventyrlige herregårde og slotte. De engelske herregårde og slotte byder på storslået arkitektur, imponerende parkanlæg, kunst, kulturelle arrangementer og  indblik i Englands adelige  historie. I denne podcast-episode fra Taste The World kigger vi nærmere på tre herregårde og slotte, som alle er offentligt tilgængelige for offentligheden. Foto: Castle Howard, som er et af de steder, som du kan høre om i denne podcast. Foto: Iben Bjurner Dagens gæst I studiet har jeg besøg af Iben Bjurner, som er cand. mag. i engelsk og litteraturvidenskab. Iben kalder sig selv for anglofil og har siden sin barndom været vild med Storbritannien. Til daglig arbejder Iben med gamle, historiske huse i en organisation, der ligger midt i København.  De tre slotte, som vi kigger nærmere på i denne podcast Burghley House i Lincolnshire Chatsworth i Derbyshire Castle Howard i Yorkshire Forslag til hoteller i York I podcasten taler vi også om, hvor du kan bo, hvis du skal besøge Castle Howard i Yorkshire. Her er Ibens tre forslag til overnatningsmuligheder i York: Galtres Lodge Hotel Guy Fawkes Inn The Bar Convent Middletons Bo selv som en hertug Hvis du selv kunne tænke dig at bo på en herregård eller slot, så anbefaler Iben, at tjekke The Landmark Trust ud. Fonden har mere end 200 bevaringsværdige bygninger, som man kan leje. Her er alt fra en lille skovhytte til et helt slot. The Landmark Trust Følg med på Ibens hjemmeside Rule Britannia Iben har sin egen sin egen hjemmeside, Rule Britannia, hvor du kan finde inspirerende historier om Storbritannien. RuleBriannia.dk   Hvad synes du? Hvis du kan lide denne podcast, så giv gerne et like på iTunes eller der, hvor du lytter til podcast. Har du kommentarer til dagens afsnit så send mig gerne en mail på persommer@gmail.com Om TASTE THE WORLD Taste the world er for alle os, som elsker at rejse og gerne vil have rejseinspiration med kant. Ud over podcast, så finder du en masse rejseartikler på hjemmesiden TasteTheWorld.dk.  Du kan også følge TASTE THE WORLD her: Facebook Instagram Twitter

This week Caz Graham visits Castle Howard in Yorkshire. Famous as the setting for 'Brideshead Revisited' the country estate has been gearing up for the festive period for months. In the heart of the Howardian Hills, the estate has around 6,100 acres of farmland. Much of the produce ends up in the farm shop on the estate. There is also 2000 acres of woodland and at this time of year there is only one tree that people are after: Christmas Trees. Caz meets Nick Cooke, the man in charge of making sure that the trees reach the customers in good condition and also responsible for supplying some of Yorkshire's largest towns with their towering Christmas trees. Caz discovers why the Howardian Hills are perfect from growing Christmas trees and gets an insight into what happens in the winter on a large country estate. Presenter: Caz Graham Producer: Martin Poyntz-Roberts.

This week Libby Purves is joined by Raghu Dixit, Beata Zatorska, Linda Nolan and Brian Deighton. Raghu Dixit is an Indian crossover musician from Mysore. He founded the Raghu Dixit Project, an open house for musicians and artistes from different genres to come together, collaborate and create a dynamic sound and expression. He is a former Microbiologist and a proficient Indian Classical Dancer and his latest CD is entitled 'Raghu Dixit'. Beata Zatorska was born and raised in Communist Poland in the sixties and seventies by her grandmother, a professional chef. In 1981 she moved to Australia and became a doctor. After twenty years away, she returned to the village in Poland where she was brought up and rediscovered her grandmother's family recipes. Her book 'Rose Petal Jam - Recipes and stories from a summer in Poland' is published by Tabula Books. Linda Nolan is one of the Nolan sisters, originally from Ireland, who are probably best known for their hit song 'I'm in the Mood for Dancing'. Four members of the group, Maureen, Linda, Bernie and Coleen have written their autobiography 'Survivors' which tells of their rise to fame during the seventies and eighties. 'Survivors' is published by Sidgwick and Jackson. Brian Deighton is Head Gardener at Castle Howard in Yorkshire, the 18th-century residence set within 1,000 acres of breathtaking landscape. He and his team have just won the annual Christie's Historic Houses Association's 'Garden of the Year Award'. His pride and joy is the rose garden, which he has tended for thirty years, and remembers the filming of Brideshead Revisited at the house back in the eighties. He is also the voice of the gardening 'Mole' in TV's Creatures Comforts.