Podcast appearances and mentions of Scott Dunn

Laura Kendrick and Cort Sharp hijack the mic to share what it’s really like behind the scenes at Mountain Goat. From Zoom bloopers to unexpected team bonding, they unpack how a fully remote team built a thriving, human-centered workplace. Overview In this special takeover episode, Laura Kendrick and Cort Sharp pull back the curtain on what goes into running hundreds of Scrum and Product Owner classes virtually—and why Mountain Goat's remote team still feels so close-knit. With stories of early tech headaches, Slack banter, hilarious costume moments, and the quiet rituals that keep the team connected, they explore how remote work can actually foster strong relationships and top-tier collaboration. If you’ve ever wondered how to make a distributed team work (or just want a peek at some Zoom-era growing pains), this one’s for you. References and resources mentioned in the show: Laura Kendrick Cort Sharp #61: The Complex Factors in The Office Vs. Remote Debate with Scott Dunn #147: The Power of Quiet Influence with Casey Sinnema Run a Daily Scrum Your Team Will Love Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Cort Sharp is the Scrum Master of the producing team and the Agile Mentors Community Manager. In addition to his love for Agile, Cort is also a serious swimmer and has been coaching swimmers for five years. Laura Kendrick is the producer of the Agile Mentors Podcast and a seasoned Scrum Master who keeps virtual classes running smoothly. Outside the podcast, she helps clients apply Scrum techniques to their marketing and business strategy, bringing structure and momentum to big, creative ideas. Auto-generated Transcript: Laura Kendrick (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. As you may have noticed, I am not Brian Milner. I am Laura Kendrick, and this is Cort Sharp. And if you have taken a class with us at Mountain Goat in the last five years, there is a good chance that you have met one or actually both of us. Cort Sharp (00:19) I think it's like 90 % chance, 95 % honestly. We've been in so many of these classes. Laura Kendrick (00:26) Definitely, and oftentimes together too with one of us TAing, one of us producing, sometimes one of us teaching court. Cort Sharp (00:33) once in a while, once in a while. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (00:37) So we thought we would come on over here and hijack the podcast to share a little bit about some of the insights that we have gained from doing about a billion, maybe a little exaggeration. Cort Sharp (00:49) Roughly. Roughly. We've done roughly a billion classes with Mountain Goat. Yes. Laura Kendrick (00:56) We have seen a lot in the certifying of Scrum Masters and product owners and advanced product owners and Scrum Masters and all of the evolution of the classes that we have done. We actually hold quite a bit of insight into what is happening in this world. And so we thought we would come in, steal the podcast, and share a little bit of what we have seen, learned, observed, and really just kind of Honestly, some of the laughs and fun that we've had along the way. Cort Sharp (01:25) Also, I think, I don't know, just your intro right there is talking about, hey, we've seen the evolution of these classes. That just got my brain going of like, remember the first class that we did? Way like 2020. I mean, I was in my parents' basement with really terrible internet. It was a struggle. Laura Kendrick (01:40) Yeah. Cort Sharp (01:49) But we were working on like Miro boards or mural. One of the two, forget which, which tool it was, but that was, yeah, that was before team home. And then we got to see the first version of team home. We helped do a little testing with it. And then we've seen it grow all the way into this awesome tool that we have nowadays. And I don't know, just, just to me, I think it's cool to see how we've been iterating and be part of that process of the iteration process, um, to develop these classes and these courses into. Laura Kendrick (01:52) Mm-hmm. Mural. Yep. Mm-hmm. Cort Sharp (02:20) the truly awesomeness that they are today. Personally, I'd rather take a virtual class than an in-person class with Mountain Goat at this point. Laura Kendrick (02:27) It's funny that you say that because I notice actually the iteration of the experience like outside of the tech piece because you know, that's where my brain goes. Here's the difference between court and I. I'm noticing the interactions. But I've noticed, mean how people are interacting a little bit differently in the online space, how even our team interacts, like all of those things has become so much more sophisticated and amazing and Cort Sharp (02:39) Yeah, just a bit. Laura Kendrick (02:54) I mean, honestly, we sometimes talk on our team between like the producing and TA team where like I've referred to it as a perfect game if we don't need anything from the outside team, which occasionally we need a lot of support from the outside team, but we've we've got this down at this point. And it is it's become those first classes. I remember them being super stressful, like, my gosh, the breakout rooms and all the things and just being like, I mean, you couldn't do. Cort Sharp (03:17) Yes. Laura Kendrick (03:21) It was almost like learning how to drive where you felt like if you turned the radio knob up, you might actually turn the whole car. And it was like, so much anxiety. Cort Sharp (03:31) I mean, but we just didn't know Zoom then. Zoom didn't even know itself then, right? What Zoom is, ⁓ for those of you who don't know, we host all of our virtual classes on Zoom. And learning that platform, like I'd used it once maybe for some just, yeah, here's Zoom exists in one of my college classes. That was about it. But yeah, totally. was like, man, what does this button do? Hopefully it doesn't end the meeting and kick everyone out. Laura Kendrick (03:34) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. Yeah, no kidding. But you know what's really interesting too, though, is that it's been over five years now for both of us being part of the Mountain Goat team. And we all work remotely. And other than you and Mike for a little while being right down the road from each other, none of us had any actual interpersonal interaction with each other outside of Zoom email and Slack and the occasional, know, fretted text message of like, are you late? Where are you? Cort Sharp (03:58) Absolutely, yeah, totally. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (04:26) But other than that it like we truly were of and still are a fully remote team and the crazy thing about it is we have at this point once gotten together as a full team in person and it was such an interesting experience being having been fully remote and then being in person and in particular the team that is live on the classes Cort Sharp (04:39) Yep. Yep. Laura Kendrick (04:51) It was a very different interaction because we have this time built into our classes where the team gets on the Zoom call 30 minutes earlier than the students do. And we get this time to just honestly have like water cooler chat and like friend chat or occasionally see Mike get on and you can't hear him, but you can see that he is quite angry at his very elaborate tech system that is not working correctly. Cort Sharp (05:14) you That does happen. Yes, it does. ⁓ Laura Kendrick (05:21) these moments, I feel like they really bonded us together. Because when we got together in person, it was old friends. wasn't even fast friends. It was old friends. And the banter even that goes on in Slack is fun and engaging and not rigid and confining. Cort Sharp (05:31) Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I agree with that. I mean, I'm just thinking back to like the first time because that was the first time I met you in person. aside from being like, wow, she's a lot shorter than I thought she would be. Laura Kendrick (05:47) Mm-hmm. shorter. By the way, court is like 6-4. Cort Sharp (05:55) Yeah, yeah. Not that you're short. But I've just always ever seen like, the profile like the profile picture. That's all that it's really ever been. So I'm like, yeah, you're like, what I would consider normal height, which you totally are. But in my mind, I was like, yeah, it's weird seeing, you know, your legs. That's funny. ⁓ Laura Kendrick (06:14) We digress. Cort Sharp (06:15) But aside from that, was like we've known each other for three, four, four years because we've had that time to get to know each other. We've had that time to talk about just life events, what's going on, where we live, what's happening, what the deal is going on with life. Because we've been very intentional about having that time with that. The 30 minutes before each class were originally very much so used to take care of any tech problems. As the years have gone by, we've for the most part figured out the tech problems. Sometimes, you know, we'll change something out. Laura Kendrick (06:48) Except, hold on, except last week in Lance's class, we were talking about his dog and suddenly it looked as though Lance in his entire room did a cartwheel because the camera just fell. This is not a small camera. Cort Sharp (07:02) It said, nope, I'm out. ⁓ man. Laura Kendrick (07:06) So we still occasionally have the tech problem. Cort Sharp (07:09) Yes we do, yes we do. That's why we still do the 30 vimits. Laura Kendrick (07:14) The crazy thing about that is that when we landed at this in-person meeting, there were members of the team that at that time, and I in particular had never had any interaction with. so like other than the odd email or Slack message, so it was like really knew their name, but didn't really work with them up until that moment. And it was really interesting because at one point, the way that the leadership team had mentioned of like, well, if you need somebody to step in and talk to Mike for you, if you're not comfortable. And I remember looking at court and being like, Mike's the one I'm most comfortable with in this room because of that 30 minutes. I feel like I know Mike. I feel like we have an actual interpersonal relationship where I have no problem speaking up and saying the things that I need to. And that has made like those little water cooler times, those little Cort Sharp (07:54) Yeah. Laura Kendrick (08:06) bantery questions, them asking about my kids or hobbies or whatever. And just knowing those things made a huge difference in our team functioning. The communication across time zones was so much better and easier and safer. Cort Sharp (08:24) Absolutely. We were talking a little bit before we were recording about just people who want pure in-person no matter what. I think at this point, I will always push back on that and say, you might not get that quote unquote collaboration time that's naturally built in, but if you're intentional about it and you provide the space and provide the resources, Laura Kendrick (08:32) Hmm. Cort Sharp (08:50) And also, kind of push people along, have some, I don't know, working agreements or something of, hey, our cameras are on whenever we're talking with each other, unless something like drastic is going on or something's happening, right? Which I think we're going to get into in a little bit, but it's massive. It's crazy. Laura Kendrick (09:03) That's huge. Yeah, I mean, it is. I think we can definitely speak to that in our own experience because we've had, of course, there are moments where people don't have cameras. There are moments where people have bad connections and we'll encourage them in class, like turn off your camera, save your bandwidth. But there are also moments where we are doing private classes for companies. In particular, we've done some with companies that work with like Department of Defense. So there's like real security. issues there and so they don't turn their cameras on. Their cameras are totally disabled on their computers. And it is, I have to say those classes are some of the most like energy draining classes I'm ever present in because I'll be there with the trainer and I feel like I have to give all this emotional feedback because when you are talking to a black screen, that's, it's really hard to just. Cort Sharp (09:47) Hmm. Laura Kendrick (09:58) survive that because you're not getting any feedback from anyone. So you don't know what's happening and you're constantly questioning and the kind of banter in your own mind is like, God, is it landing? Is it not? And you're just not getting any of that physical feedback. So I feel like when I'm on a class with a trainer like that, I feel like I have to be like, that's funny. I'm like, yeah, good point. Cort Sharp (10:19) Yeah, you're kidding. Laura Kendrick (10:21) I'm tired Cort Sharp (10:22) You No, I get that. And I've had some pretty similar experiences too. I might not be as in tune with the emotional side as stated earlier. So I might not help the trainers out nearly as much as I probably should. But I do think cameras on just can make all the difference. And again, situations where it's just not possible. Absolutely understand that. One of our trainers, Lance, he Laura Kendrick (10:39) Mm-hmm. Cort Sharp (10:47) He always likes to throw out the phrase, look, let's approach everything with grace, patience, and mercy. So I like, which I really appreciate, and I like that he throws that out there. But I think that's a good thing to keep in mind of like, know, even though you have the company policy, you have the working agreement, whatever it is that says, look, camera's on all the time, sometimes it's just not possible. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. I recently had to figure out internet in the middle of nowhere, because that's where I live now. Laura Kendrick (10:52) Mm. No. Cort Sharp (11:15) And I was worried for a while that I wouldn't be able to put my camera on. But, you know, if if they came down to that, I know that it would be, hey, you know, it's a it's a unique situation. It's something different. And we're going to do we're going to work the best that we can with it and try to figure out maybe you can turn your camera on for any time you're talking or just any time you have something to say or, you know, if you're agreeing with something, you could briefly turn your camera on to show like, yeah, I'm nodding. I'm agreeing. I'm doing whatever. Right. But Laura Kendrick (11:45) Honestly, I think recently I had a very busy day and we communicate in back channels, of course through email, but also we use Slack as a team. And so I sent a direct message to court about something and I just like, I sent it in a voice? No. And court's response was, didn't know you could do that in Slack. But in those moments, I think there are other ways of doing it too, where you can bring the humanity out, where it's not just words. Cort Sharp (12:01) Yeah. Laura Kendrick (12:09) So often I'm actually thinking about there was one time that you and I were talking about something and I misread it as like, I like kicked something, like some hornet's nest in there. Like you were upset with me, but you were like, no, that was not my intention. And it's an amazing thing that that's only happened once in five years. There was that subtle nuanced miscommunication of I thought I had offended in some way and I hadn't. Cort Sharp (12:18) So. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (12:34) Just keeping that in mind though, in written word, tone is interpreted because probably what happened is I like offended my kid or my partner and was bringing that into the conversation with court. And it had nothing to do with what was actually happening, but adding in those personal things of your face, your voice, those things really do help move that human connection, which enables the teamwork that we've seen at Mountain Go. Cort Sharp (12:42) Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (13:00) I mean, it's amazing the way this team functions and it is not perfect. There are definitely communications missteps. There are definitely like, oops, forgot to leave that piece out of the information packet. It happens. It happens to everybody, but we're able to recover really quickly or even it's a safe enough space to be able to speak up and say, I think I got left out on this. And it's responded to in a really gracious and amazing way. Cort Sharp (13:26) It absolutely is. I mean, Mountain Goat's been remote for longer than the COVID stuff, the pandemic stuff happened. Laura Kendrick (13:33) Yeah. Well, Lisa's been with them for what, 10 years? I think it was nearly 10 years when we started, maybe 15. And Hunter's around the same. So yeah, they've been spread for a long time. Cort Sharp (13:42) Something like that, Uh-huh. ⁓ I know that they had an office space and that office space changed just in case people wanted to like come in, come to the office. I think at one point, one of them was in Colorado, which is kind of funny because several people live on the West coast. And then it's like, okay, yeah, come on, come on, swing by the... Colorado office on just a random Tuesday. Yeah, fly in, have fun. I don't know. Yeah, why not? I don't know what the deal was or what it was like, but they've been fully remote. And I think with the kind of runway that they've had leading up until the time where everyone had to be fully remote has really benefited Mountain Go in a lot of ways, because a lot of those early, like, how do we work remote? How do we do this? Laura Kendrick (14:09) I'd do that. Yeah, let's do it. Cort Sharp (14:31) kind of was ironed out, but back to your, your point to just like, it's, it's incredible how much support there is. It's incredible how much, how well communication again, it's not perfect, but how well we're able to communicate with each other and how well we're able to just say, yeah, let's, let's hop on a call real quick or here. I think most of us have like personal phone numbers. We, we use that as a very much so last resort type deal. Laura Kendrick (14:57) Yeah. Cort Sharp (14:59) But even then, it's nice to just have those open lines of communication and know that those are always available, but also know that people are kind of in our corner all the time too. And I think you have a pretty good story about this one. Something happened in a class a few years ago. Laura Kendrick (15:09) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It was early on we had, it was a non-Mike class. So it was one of the other instructors and there was a student who was just challenging. And in the end, it didn't go well in the moment, to put it, just to kind of like not go into grave detail about it. But Mike wasn't there, right? And so The thing that was interesting though is the first piece of communication that came from Mike, which was before that class even broke, right? Because it was one of those things of like, we have to share. As a team, we can't hide it. We have to share that something happened in class that was less than ideal. And so we did. And the immediate response from Mike was in support of the team. And later on, he did go and review the tape of the, because the classes are recorded, not for this purpose. They're recorded actually so that the students get a recording of the class afterwards and can return to what, you know, all the things that they learned because it's a lot to take in in two days. But in this one instance, it was beneficial in this way because Mike could actually see rather than taking people's words, what happened. And I think the important thing is not even what happened after, but what happened in the moment. that he instantaneously was like, I've got you. Like no matter how this goes, we're a team and I'm gonna support you as well. And that was actually, that was pretty early on for me. And it was in a moment where I didn't know Mike that well yet. And it was actually this very solidifying moment for me that was like, I'm in the right place. Like I am part of this team, not just a minion or an employee. Like they care about all of us. Cort Sharp (16:48) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (16:56) and we're in this together, even if it turns out that we're in some form of trouble, it's still going to be thoughtfully managed and handled rather than just the kind of lashing out that can happen in so many environments. Cort Sharp (17:12) Right. And, and that experience, cause I think we were all included on that email. Like I, I wasn't in the class when it happened, but I do remember getting that email and it just was a clear communication from kind of head honcho Mike, right? A top dog saying, yeah, no, we, we got your back. on, we're on the same team. We're all working towards the same goal. And when I, when I read the email, I was like, wow, that was an eventful class. but. Laura Kendrick (17:26) Mm-hmm. us. Cort Sharp (17:38) My second thought, my second thought was, huh, this very similar to what you were saying of like, wow, this is a great place to be. This is a great company to work for. These are great people to be working with and alongside. ⁓ but also like, I know so many people whose managers, whose higher ups would say, Nope, you're in the wrong. You should have done better. Your toast, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like putting all the blame on you. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (17:52) Mm-hmm. Yeah. The knee jerk. Yeah. Yeah. Cort Sharp (18:07) And it just, makes me think all the time of like one really blessed, like very fortunate to be here, very fortunate to work with mountain goat. but also people don't quit jobs. They quit managers. They quit leadership more often than not. And, not that I'm talking about quitting mountain goat, but, neither, neither of us are throwing that out there right now, but just like, Laura Kendrick (18:20) Mmm. Yeah. No, but interestingly in five years, I've not seen anybody quit. I mean, we've had people kind of go down separate paths, but nobody has been throwing their hands up and been like, I'm done. I can't be in this. There have been people who have taken other opportunities that they needed to take for their own businesses. But yeah, nobody's quit. In five years, no one has quit, which speaks volumes to the culture that is created in an environment where Cort Sharp (18:37) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (18:57) And I also want to be clear that that response from Mike also, it wasn't disparaging to the other party either. It was simply a, like, it just let us know that I see you and this, you were in a hard moment in the moment and you had to react like a human being and you as a team, I've got your back and this is, you know, great. And to be fair to that was like in the heat of COVID. Cort Sharp (19:24) Yes, yeah It was yeah Laura Kendrick (19:27) good times. But there's also been a lot of fun that's happened in class too, which is, I think that makes a big difference. Like where we are, I don't want to say allowed because I don't think that's right, but like part of the culture is to have fun. Like Mike is a pretty funny guy. Brian's a pretty funny guy. Like honestly, the whole team is quite humorous and it's, we're allowed to like make these really fun things and Cort Sharp (19:48) Yes. Laura Kendrick (19:52) in response to like when we see them in class, like, we foster those two and it becomes this really fun working environment, not only for us, for our students. You brought up one that I had totally forgotten about with the costume. That was good. Cort Sharp (20:06) ⁓ yeah, I, I, yeah, I'll, I'll get into the costume thing, but I think the word you're looking for instead of allowed is enabled. Like we're, we're enabled to have fun. We're encouraged. Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent. If you ever hung out with Mike or, or taking a class with him, you've probably heard some funny stories. Laura Kendrick (20:13) Yeah, Encouraged, in fact. And my gosh, the one class too where Mike was asked how long they'd have access to like the videos and stuff. my gosh, Mike ended the class and it was a super engaged Chipper class. Everyone was laughing and Mike brought it down. Cause he did his usual thing where he talked about, what does he say? You have access as long as the internet exists and I'm alive. And then he went into great detail. great detailed speculation about what will happen once he's not alive. It went on for like five minutes. Cort Sharp (20:58) Yeah, where where he's like, yeah, you know, my kids will probably be like, what's this? What's this old website that dad's still hosting? Guess we'll we'll close that up 10 years down the line or whatever. Laura Kendrick (21:09) Dumbfounded. It was so good. But anyhow. Cort Sharp (21:13) man. But there was, I don't even remember why this happened in the class. don't think it was around like Halloween time or something. think the person, actually, I think the person does this to go to like local children's hospitals or local hospitals and just visit. But I get on and I'm normally the PM producer. So I normally hop on in the afternoon. And I took over from Laura and Laura Kendrick (21:22) No, it wasn't. think so. Cort Sharp (21:39) Laura was like, yeah, you know, pretty normal class. This happens, whatever. We're good. And I hop on and people start turning their cameras on. And then all of a sudden there's this dude in a Captain America costume. Like what? He's got the mask. He's got the, the, the uniform. He's got the shield and everything. And I was like, what is happening? What is going on? Come to find out he was telling his story. Laura Kendrick (21:50) Like full on math. Cort Sharp (22:04) Yeah, I do this. This is cool. And Mike was like, that'd be awesome to see. He went out, put it on and took the rest of the classes Captain America. So we have certified Captain America. Laura Kendrick (22:12) Awesome. We've had, there was the guy who was put on like a crazy hat for the first session and then came back for session two with a different crazy hat. And then other people started wearing crazy hats. And by the end of it, like by the final session, almost the entire class was sitting there with some like their kids stuff on their heads. it was. Cort Sharp (22:34) You Laura Kendrick (22:36) But was this one, like it stands out of the billion classes we've done. It stands out in our minds as these really fun moments. I remember the class where it was a private class, so it was for a company or team. And there were, it took me until the very end to, it was early on, so it took me until the very end to get up the gumption. There were five mics in the class. And finally I was like, I'm just gonna put them all in the same room and see if anybody notices. Cort Sharp (22:36) People just... Yes. Didn't they notice like right away, they all came back and they're like, team Mike is back in action or something, right? Laura Kendrick (23:04) I don't think they said anything, but they did. The instructor went into the room and like, yeah, they noticed. Good. My passive aggressive humor worked. Cort Sharp (23:10) Hehehehehe It's fun. It's all good. But it's also like going back to us being able to do this before I figured out kind of my background situation, I would always put up virtual backgrounds and I would just change your background every time and see if people noticed. And it wasn't, it was a lot of Disney. Yes. Laura Kendrick (23:23) Mm-hmm. Disney. That's the thing though. That also, that kind of stuff built a little bit of a relationship as well. like it was, court was always going to have something for Disney. I had one that I would, when I finally found the one I liked, I kept that one for a long time. And Mike would occasionally, when I wasn't in a class, he would send me a screenshot of somebody via email and be like, somebody's in your house with you. Cause they would have the same background. Cort Sharp (23:52) Yeah! Laura Kendrick (23:56) those little tiny things make the relationships and make the team function and make us giggle. So I'd be like out with my kids and see an email and be like, oh no, Mike, what does he need? And then click in and be like, you know, actually more often than not, it would probably be like, am I missing class? See, I'd be like, oh, that's funny. But you know, it builds that relationship. And I think it's why this remote working has worked so well for us. And I'm totally with you where I, when people are Cort Sharp (24:13) You Yeah. Laura Kendrick (24:26) railing against it because of my experience. like, you're crazy. This is great. Cort Sharp (24:31) Exactly. I'm like, how can you not want to just chill out, hang out in your home, chat with some people, get some work done, and like, you're good. Who despises that? Who doesn't like that? don't know. It's, Exactly, yeah. But I do think it does, it comes down to being intentional with it. We were talking about that 30 minutes before that used to be primarily tech troubleshooting. Laura Kendrick (24:47) I know, you get to do things on your own time too. Cort Sharp (25:01) but has since kind of evolved into, okay, so everything, like, I don't know about you, but the vast majority of time, unless a camera's fallen, the vast majority of time, it's, all right, does everything look good? Yeah? Cool. Sure does. Whoever I'm working with, awesome. So, what'd you do this weekend? how was this? ⁓ sorry, sorry that the Avs lost to the Dallas Stars. Yeah, I'm sorry too. Stuff like that, right? Where it's just, Laura Kendrick (25:19) Yeah. It's water cooler talk. Cort Sharp (25:29) It's fun, but we're very intentional with having that time to do that. And I think if you're not intentional in setting up that time, whether if you're working remote hybrid, you're not going to get it. And it's not just going to naturally happen because it is so much more difficult to produce. it's impossible for it to just kind of naturally pop up without taking away from some other intentional time. so I think in, in this this world that we're living in where there is the option to work remotely and there is this really big push to go back in person. I'm saying stick with remote, take your 15, 15 minute daily standup, and turn it into, you know, say, Hey, I'll be on 10, 15 minutes early. If anyone wants to come hang out, come chat. And make it worth it. Make it a valuable time because that is the time to connect and that is the time to say, yeah, cool. How are the kids? How was your weekend? Did you grill up some good hot dogs during this last weekend? What'd you do? Like, what was going on? ⁓ Build up that stuff. Laura Kendrick (26:23) Yeah. We also have Slack channels too, that are like that. Like there's a Slack channel for our team that's just movies, books and TV shows. That people, it'll get active at certain times and it'll be totally dead for a while and nobody's cultivating it. It's simply that somebody will pop in like, I just watched this and it's great. And they've set up also like the automatic bots, cause Mike's a big fan of James Bond. So like if somebody mentions James Bond, the Slack bot will say something quippy and it- Cort Sharp (26:39) Yeah. ⁓ Laura Kendrick (26:58) But it adds that little, like, little bit of humor, little bit of humanness to even though, like, the people that we have time to interact with like that is the team that's in class. So I don't, I mean, it wasn't until we were in person that I met our CTO. He was kind of an enigma, you know? Cort Sharp (27:10) Yeah. Mm-hmm. He was just in the background. Things just magically showed up digitally. Laura Kendrick (27:23) It was in my email and my Slack sometimes, but it creates that thing of like, now I know things about Hunter. Yes, of course it was because we were in person. I heard lots of stories and all that fun stuff. But also I know about like some of his like TV watching stuff. I know occasionally like what his wife likes to watch because sometimes he'll like pepper in something that, she dragged me into this and not my cup of tea. But it's those little bitty things that you start to learn about the people. Cort Sharp (27:39) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (27:50) that makes them human and gives that space. And I also, think it's important to have it be a little bit of white space. so often we talk about cultivating the conversation and like, can you have icebreakers and get people engaged? And yes, those things are so important, but when it's with a team, you need to do those things, but you also need to create the empty space where maybe you have that daily standup or that... weekly meeting or monthly meeting, whatever that is for your team. And maybe at the end of it, it's just leaving the call going and allowing people to just talk. I mean, we did that as a producer team that we would have a meeting as producers that would be very structured and then kind of the official meeting would end. And there would be times where as a team we'd be on that Zoom. I'm like, thank goodness nobody needs this channel. Cause like we'd be in there for like two and a half hours. Cort Sharp (28:26) Yeah. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (28:42) just talking. And of course, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't billing time. It wasn't, you know, it was just us being friends and hearing each other and sometimes ranting and complaining and doing the things of like, this part was hard and like, yeah, well, people need the space to do that and feel seen and heard. And the only place they're going to get that is in the white space. Cort Sharp (29:01) Yep. Exactly. Yep. And where my head went when you were talking about the white space, I love where you just went to because that's absolutely very true. But where my mind went was the newest kind of Slack channel that that's been set up, which is the artificial intelligence. Yeah. Where we just we just it's cool because I'm interested in AI. I think everyone's interested in AI right now. Things are things are going in all sorts of wild directions with it. There's there's all sorts of possibilities that we can do with it. Laura Kendrick (29:17) ⁓ Yeah, that one's Yeah. Cort Sharp (29:32) And Hunter just threw out, who wants in? If you want in, cool, I'll get you in. If not, and you're not interested in AI, let me know when you are, because it'll be at some point, I was going to say. It's just another full group one. Yeah, we just. Laura Kendrick (29:39) Yeah. Pretty sure the whole team's in there. But it is fun. Like Hunter and Mike do deep dives and Brian too. And I'm like, wow, I just get to swim in that pool. It's really Cort Sharp (29:50) Yes. Yeah, yeah. You just kind of get a glean from what's posted in there and say, oh yeah, I am really interested in the automation side of AI. I want to do, I think I threw in there one time, like this whole GitHub repository that has just from zero to hero AI, here's a two week crash course. And I've been working my way through that. It's taken a lot longer than two weeks for me. I've been working my way through that. And it's opened my eyes to say, okay, now this awesome thing, think Mike just threw in there something about someone using it at Disney, I think it was, and how they were using it at Disney to propose, here's a cool way that we can use AI to help our proposals go faster or help our marketing campaigns go faster or whatever it is. And just learning and seeing and... Laura Kendrick (30:38) Yeah. Cort Sharp (30:44) growing together as a team as well and having that space of, yeah, you know, here's what here, here are these articles that I'm reading. Here's the ones that stuck out to me. And to have that space, I think also is, is really interesting to me too, not just because I like learning, but it's also like, I feel like, okay, I can talk with Mike about AI. I can talk with Hunter about AI. I can talk with whoever about it. And we're all relatively on the same page because we're all relatively getting the same information. Laura Kendrick (31:14) Yeah, yeah. I feel like having the Slack channel has been really helpful and all the white space and even honestly the in-person event, there was white space built into that too. There was definitely a lot of structured meetings because of course when you are bringing everyone in from all over the country and actually the world, have a team member who is in the UK too. Cort Sharp (31:26) yeah. Laura Kendrick (31:37) flying a great distance and being in a space together, it's got to be structured. You have to make that worth the time and effort and investment. But also there were dinners, there were shows that happened, there was fun built into it, and there were options of not just like, I'm forcing you to go to this, but like, here's a choice. Would you like to do this or that? And those things have made a huge difference in breeding the like belongingness. Cort Sharp (31:55) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (32:05) and the feeling like we are actually a team. And even though there are definitely times where the frustrations arise, of course, I mean, who doesn't have frustrations, but it's a space where they can be vocalized, they can be talked through, and it's all due to that togetherness that we have, that connectedness that has been built through, honestly, Cort Sharp (32:05) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (32:30) just being in these like casual fun spaces is where that comes from in my opinion. Cort Sharp (32:36) Yeah, I agree with that. Just having the space to talk about whatever. But I think it's all rooted in communication, right? So in various methods of communicating and various ways of communicating too, where it's not just exclusively Slack, email, written text, we have that space there. But we do still run into some communication problems, right? There's... Laura Kendrick (32:41) Yeah. For sure, for sure. Cort Sharp (32:58) there's all sorts of communication problems that we're gonna run into because especially we are text-based heavy, but we're not exclusively text-based. But I think you were talking about a story where Mike was late one time or Mike's late story about communication and what was going on with that. Laura Kendrick (33:12) he tells it in class. He tells a story in class with that. It's one of his examples that he will pull into fairly frequently with an experience with a team where somebody was always late to the daily standup and they realized that it had to do with the fact that they had to drop their kid off at school. And so it was that simple communication shift of asking instead of assuming, asking which... They've put into practice too, like I recall early on hearing like, do you prefer to be communicated with? And like we've had these conversations that court and I have a tendency to be more slack people. But Brian has stated that for him, like when he's teaching slack is like his emergency line. And so like knowing that I'm not going to send him something through slack unless I desperately need him to see it when I can land it in his email versus Lisa and Laura are much more Cort Sharp (33:43) yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (34:04) they're going to be in the email. Like that's just where they live and they are less likely to be in Slack. So it's just knowing those things have also helped us build the right kind of streams of communication. I'm pretty sure Hunter is everywhere all at once. Like he's omnipresent. You can get him anywhere. I know it. I'm in New York and he's in California. I'm pretty sure if I whispered his name, he's hearing it right now. Cort Sharp (34:06) Right. my gosh. He's the enigma. He's the enigma everywhere. I was gonna say, I'm surprised he hasn't popped into this. We've said his name three times. It's, he just knows everything and he's always got everything coming through and no matter what you need, he's any message away. Slack, email, could be carry your pigeon. I don't know, something like that, right? Laura Kendrick (34:43) Yeah, his next Halloween costume needs to be Beetlejuice, so I'm sending that to him. my goodness. But I think at the end of the day, the practices that have been put into place that you may have felt in our classes too, have helped really grow this team into what it is. There's a lot of strength here. There's a lot of fun here, but there's a lot of hard work here too. And a lot of, there have been hard moments where we've all just kind of put our heads down together and moved through the hard moments as a team with a lot of support and a lot of. Cort Sharp (35:12) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (35:15) Just trying to be in it and be like kind of move things where it needs to go. I don't know what the right word is as a team. It's redundant. Cort Sharp (35:22) I think it. Yeah. But I think that that does show in our classes a lot, right? You and I have both taken a class outside of the mountain goat sphere, ⁓ and I'm not I'm not dogging on anyone. I'm not trying to talk down on anyone. But I got out of that class. I was like, man, we are light years ahead of that. Laura Kendrick (35:30) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cort Sharp (35:49) that kind of interaction and that kind of experience. was the information that I got out of that class was awesome, superb. It was great. But just the amount of energy and effort and time that has been invested into these Mountain Goat courses, it's far and away just, it shows. And it shows how much of a level up it is to take a class with Mountain Goat. And I do think partly, you know, I'm boosting my own ego here. But I do think partly it is because we are surrounded with some awesome people and we have some awesome people working together and awesome support on every call, every class that you take with us, right? You don't have to, like the instructor can focus on just instructing. And we, more often than not, we are typically in charge of everything else. Make sure that any tech problems, any issues, anything that's going on, right? Yeah. Laura Kendrick (36:32) Yeah. Yeah. I remember the early days. Like you just brought up a memory that apparently I had stored in the trauma bank. I remember the early days though being, because I would often, because I'm on the East Coast, court is in mountain times. So, often I would be the early person just because it's easier for me. was mid morning for me. we would start class and it would be just, especially honestly when like people were figuring out Zoom and all this stuff, it was... stressful. Like they were just, it was just question, question, question, problem, problem, problem. And we would get to the first breakout and I would send everyone away and the instructor would be like, that was great. And I'm like, was, you know, just totally frazzled. But the point was, is no one else felt that. And it was, I was in my Slack and working with the team, working with Hunter, things fixed, working with Lisa, making sure the person was in the right place. Cort Sharp (37:20) Yeah, glad. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (37:33) and doing all these things. And though that has died down because we've all gotten very good at our job and the systems in place are amazing at this point, it still is like, that's the whole point. We worked as a team so that the instructor could deliver an amazing class and be present with his students. And we could be here or her, because we do have hers too, I should say. They're students. And we were here taking care of the things that needed to be taken care of, which was, yeah. Cort Sharp (37:54) Yes. Laura Kendrick (38:00) Though I had forgotten about that. Thanks for that. Cort Sharp (38:02) Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's gotten easy, right? ⁓ Laura Kendrick (38:04) Yeah, it does. But that's at the end of the day, that's how a good team is. I think that we can kind of end it with this thing of Mike has created this environment and it definitely comes from him. Like it's is rooted in the founder for us because we're a small team, small but mighty. But he it's rooted in his like engine of creativity, efficiency, and just love of innovation. And that has kind of Cort Sharp (38:18) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (38:34) folding that in with seeing all the people as humans, and with flaws and different talents and all those things and human interaction is messy and folding all of that in has actually been what has bred these amazing class experiences for our students and also this rewarding and fantastic team experience for the people behind the scenes as well. And I think the lesson Cort Sharp (38:39) Yes. Yep. Laura Kendrick (38:59) comes from that, that if we can fold those things in together and make space for humans to be humans and also have this amazing expectation of creativity and innovation, then it's all going to happen. Cort Sharp (39:06) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I 100 % agree with that. I mean, it does come down to Mike and Mike is a fantastic leader. It's awesome. I also want to raise Mike, but. Laura Kendrick (39:28) Nice. Not passive aggressive at all. On that note. Cort Sharp (39:29) Yeah, you know. No. I'm just joking, right? We're able to have fun. We're able to joke around. But it does come down to leadership, right? And I think that's true on any team. And we have just we've been so fortunate to be able to experience it firsthand and go through this awesome transformation from being in person to fully remote, even in the class teaching stuff. And it's been really, really fun. really, really enjoyable. I, you know, you don't love every day. There are jobs, right? It's a job. But I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. It has been fun. It has been enjoyable. But I don't look back on it and be like, wow, these last five years were just all terrible. No, it's we've had great leadership. We've had great interactions with with everyone. And I think Laura Kendrick (40:05) You should have just left it at really, really fun and enjoyable. Mic drop, goodbye. Cort Sharp (40:28) It's just come down to the people that we're working with and the people that we're engaging with consistently. And our leadership, Mike, has fostered an environment very, very well that is around fun, around communication, around enabling us to grow, to learn, to try new things, to move forward. And I really feel bad for companies who don't have that kind of leadership. that's, it's a tough spot to be in, but, I'm really, we're really blessed and really fortunate to, to be able to work here. And I hope this, this little peek behind the curtain, kind of encourages you to you, the listener, guess, whoever, whoever's out there to take a, take a little step back and say, okay, what, what am I doing as a leader within my sphere of influence to help my team be a little more human and embrace the humanity side of stuff? Not just pushing for more, we need more, more productivity, more AI, more everything, right? Yeah. Use AI, make it a tool, but just remember you're, building stuff for, for people. You're working with people all the time. And I think that's something that Mike has never forgotten and never will forget and never will let fall to the wayside that we're all people and we're all here working with each other. Laura Kendrick (41:43) Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Well, on that amazing note, thank you, Cort, for joining me in this hijacking of the podcast, the Agile Mentors podcast. And we're going to turn it back over to Brian, who's going to walk you right on out. Cort Sharp (41:54) Happy to.

Can you lead meaningful change without burning people out—or yourself? Sherri Robbins thinks so, and she’s sharing how she’s done it in high-stakes, high-complexity environments (with her sanity intact). Overview In this episode, Sherri Robbins joins Scott Dunn to talk about what it actually takes to lead large-scale change across teams, departments, and vendors without losing sight of your values—or your people. From agile leadership lessons and real-world mistakes to personality-aware management and learning how (and when) to let teams fail forward, this conversation goes far beyond frameworks. If you’ve ever tried to implement something new and wondered why it didn’t stick, this one’s for you. References and resources mentioned in the show: Sherri Robbins Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard by Chip Heath & Dan Heath Start With Why by Simon Sinek Five Lessons For Agile Leaders Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Sherri Robbins is a 20+ year veteran in the medical device industry, blending strategic execution with deep regulatory and quality systems expertise to lead enterprise-wide transformations. She’s a thought leader in Agile implementation, known for aligning cross-functional teams, building psychological safety, and driving change that actually sticks.

How do you lead change when you’re not the boss? Casey Sinnema shares what it takes to build trust, influence outcomes, and make Monday feel a little less dreadful. Overview What happens when you give a self-proclaimed utility player the freedom to poke holes in broken systems and lead cross-functional change without official authority? In this episode, Scott chats with Casey Sinema about navigating ambiguity, building trust without a title, and leading impactful change through curiosity, clarity, and a deep understanding of what people actually need. References and resources mentioned in the show: Casey Sinnema Wolf Pack by Abby Wombach The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins Micromanagement Log Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Casey Sinnema is a self-described utility player who’s built a career by asking great questions, poking holes in broken systems, and leading meaningful change across teams—without ever needing the official title to do it. With a background in accounting and a talent for cross-functional problem solving, she brings curiosity, empathy, and real-world savvy to every challenge she tackles. Auto-generated Transcript: Scott Dunn (00:01) Well, welcome everyone to another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I am your takeover, not your normal host, of Brian Miller, who's done a smash up job over a hundred plus episodes if you haven't checked those out. But part of the podcast takeover was not only a fresh voice, but also perspective and a lot of what I typically focus on for the people who know me. On leadership and culture and leading change. And I thought of no one better that I'd rather talk to about some of this. Casey Sinnema and I'll give you a little bit of introduction about who she is, what she does. Maybe also I think it'd be fascinating Casey on how you yourself in the role that you have. I think it's kind of a cool role, at least on paper. You can flesh that out a little bit more but I'll hand off to you. Tell us a little about yourself. Casey (00:46) Yeah, hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, so I currently am most often referred to as a utility player. And I'm still trying to figure out my elevator speech for how I talk about what I do because my role, my title is manager, which doesn't say much, right? And I actually don't do a function, but the easiest way to talk about it is I'm a project manager of sorts. I'm involved in a wide variety of projects from a varying level of involvement, from leading the project to leading the change to being a key stakeholder to just being the voice to leaders or executives or that type of thing. So yeah, I am a little bit of everything. And I got here on accident. I have... Scott Dunn (01:32) I was... Casey (01:34) You know, way back in the day when I was, you know, doing the like, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? I'm like, I just want a marketable skill. So I have a business degree and I went into accounting and I quickly became the troubleshooter. So I would go into a company, troubleshoot, fix the process, fix something broken, and then find myself in another company doing the same thing. And, so throughout my career, I've just sort of built this unique set of skills that allow me to poke holes in processes. and help companies fix them and then kind of find the next thing. So that's just kind of how I wound up here. I've been at my current company for almost a decade, which is going to be a record for me. And, but I'm still doing the same thing. I'm moving around the company and finding new places to, you know, rock the boat a little bit. Scott Dunn (02:20) Cool. Very cool. Yeah. It does sound like you have a number of things on your place to where that makes kind of expand on that a little bit and where you comfortably share those stories as we go through some of this because there's a lot, there's a lot more underneath based on what Casey shared before. And I love it that you found yourself like a happy accident and I guess have enough challenges and learning and growth there as long as they move you around that you're, you know, you need to be working on that are meaningful. things to be working on. Casey (02:51) Yeah, absolutely. That's the biggest thing, right? Is to like find work that you find valuable and that has an impact on the people around you, which is, know, squarely aligned with my values. Scott Dunn (03:01) Well, you touched on one thing that I know a number of other people could relate to and I could too as well as the kind of troubleshoots process can just easily see that things aren't working at a larger view. Some of that. maybe add on a little bit. What is it like about your role? For those who are kind of thinking they're in quasi space, they can hear you talk about that role and like, hey, that sounds like me too. What are the points of that different projects, different things you're involved with that that's what really lights you up? Casey (03:27) Yeah, I, it's so interesting because a lot of us find that the things that we're good at are the things that, you know, give us energy and that motivate us, right? I happen to be uniquely skilled at poking holes in things, including in my own life. So it works in my personal life as well. I could just sort of see things from different perspectives and find the gaps. And so it just sort of on accident. I think what's interesting is Scott Dunn (03:43) You Hmm. Casey (03:53) throughout my career and throughout my life, the biggest challenge has been to hone that skill for good, right? To lead with kindness and to manage my expectations along with the expectations of the world around me and troubleshoot the things or poke holes in things that need holes poked in instead of like everything. You know what mean? Scott Dunn (04:15) I love that. Two things that I want to, I guess, add on a little bit more there. One, you mentioned something and the other thing is I think you might just put out there like, same thing from different perspectives. I imagine for the people, we've all been around folks who just they only think their way. And you're just kind of reflecting on that. But Keith, it sounds like you can go into a meeting and you can hear three different state views and you can genuinely understand from their perspective why that's important to them or why that's a problem to them, right? If I'm hearing you. Casey (04:42) Yeah, absolutely. That's really key in all of the different types of projects that I've played a part in, right? Like hearing things from different people's perspectives and really understanding what they're looking to get, what they need and what's in it for them and being able to connect those things across stakeholders. Scott Dunn (04:59) Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah, but looking for commonality, alignment, et cetera. I do think there's a specialness, and we've talked about it a bit, like in the facilitation class, that looking for those folks having common and generating alignment is a unique gift that we just don't see a lot in corporate people kind of lobby for what they want. And actually, it's, it would be an afterthought to think about other people's perspectives and yet who draws different areas of the company together who are to get some new about the door or whatever like that. So you're kind of touching on that, which I think is really powerful. Is there anything that you see as like a go-to mindset that you bring in those situations or go to like tools that you're kind of using, whether that's things you're doing in writing down or in mural or even just how where your head is at when you walk into some of those meetings where you feel they have different perspectives and on the same page, you're supposed to walk out of that session on the same page. Casey (05:51) Yeah, the first one is to sort of leave my ego at the door, right? What I think is the right thing can't come in the door with me, right? Like I, of course I'm influencing, right? Where I feel like it matters. But it's not, I'm probably not the decision maker and the people that are not on the same page, when they need to get aligned, they need to be able to get there on their own. So what I think is the right way, I got to leave it at the door. So that's my number one thing. Scott Dunn (05:57) heheheheh. Casey (06:18) And then the next thing I do is just really stay curious, ask lots of questions, actively listen, model that active listening behavior so that everybody else is also actively listening. That's a big thing. And really just sort of helping people find a common language, I think, is really important. So I do a lot of restating what I'm hearing so that other people can maybe hear it from a different set of words and connect it. Scott Dunn (06:29) Hahaha Casey (06:42) more readily to the way that they're thinking about the topic. Scott Dunn (06:45) Yeah, you say these as if they're like, I mean those are short little pithy statements, but boy, powerful. I think it reflects an attitude beginning with what he said as the ego is like, we might know a whole lot, we gotta leave that at the door. Just at work, awesome. Here and you say something, I'm making notes like this would be good in life too, right? In personal life and relationships, stay curious, active. Don't assume that the way you see it is reality, right? So, I think that's super. The other thing you mentioned though was about Go ahead. Casey (07:17) I will say I'm better at it at my job than in my personal life because, Scott Dunn (07:23) Of course, I think, yeah, for everyone listening, they're like, me too. Why can't I do this? I can tell some stories. So the other one, though, you should just poke holes as if like, it's this little thing we're doing. But there might be something inside. I think I might be able to relate that is driving perhaps towards this isn't running as well as it could, or this isn't running. I think we know that, or this could be better. Something inside you that that you feel is churning, that you're seeing holes no matter what that is, if it's a small process, large process, a team, multiple teams. Tell me a little bit more about what does that mean to you when you say poke holes in things? What's running through your mind? Casey (08:01) Yeah, it's complex, right? Because sometimes it's really easy. This is broken. you know, right? Or there's a bottleneck, something that's really like you can, it's data driven, you can see in the data where something is not working well, that those are the easy ones, right? And you can just start asking sort of the five whys or the finding the root cause of what's happening there. Scott Dunn (08:06) Those are the easy ones, yes. Casey (08:26) But in the case where there's friction or there appears to be barriers or there's just this. any kind of challenge or even when there's not a challenge, quite frankly, I have this unique ability to like listen across people and across like data and technology. That's a weird thing to say is listen across technology, but I sort of just find where things are misconnected or disconnected and start to ask questions there. And so I can find something that maybe isn't working as well as it should without anybody else noticing which. Scott Dunn (08:35) Yeah. Casey (08:59) I've learned I need to be careful with. Scott Dunn (09:01) That's great. So at least the next question was any hard lessons, anything so you could do a redo on that one that you could pass on so someone else doesn't have to learn the hard way from Casey's experience. Casey (09:11) Ha yeah. Everything I learned, I learned the hard way. So if you feel like that's what you're doing, you're not alone. Yeah, the thing that I have learned probably the most often, and I will learn it several more times in my career, I'm sure, is when I think I have found something, go make sure it's true before you start to really socialize it. So like, I'm going to go ask the question of the expert. Scott Dunn (09:20) Ha Whoa. Casey (09:42) before I bring it up because maybe I'm not seeing it from all of the right angles or maybe I don't understand exactly what it's doing or quite frankly maybe I'm missing some context. And so really talking and building relationships with people who are experts on the topic or in the field is really kind of where I start. Scott Dunn (10:00) was great, great period. the number of times we miss out on relationships, especially in that one, really key. Casey (10:00) And. Yeah. Scott Dunn (10:08) I think I'd add to that though. sometimes I'll phrase it as rather wait to be sure than lose capital because if I go out saying things that aren't true. So sometimes we'll jump in on the outing side and they'll be like, why haven't you gotten yet? And I'll be clear, like, I'd rather wait and be sure than hurry and be wrong. And then we got to that mess before we get back to the work we're supposed to be doing. And sometimes it's a while to pick that up, depending on who got affected by We'll put out there sometimes innocuously, we thought, well, here's the numbers results. And someone's like, that's actually not correct. But now everyone knows we have now we have a PR problem, something like that. So I'm not alone in that. I've been there. That's a tough one. But also on the coin, though, what would you point to as wins if you look back like that's talking about? That's why this is important. That's what you feel good about. Casey (10:54) Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I think from a win perspective, the, a really good example, I'm going to go way back in the day. I had a, a chance to work, in a motorcycle dealership and we had huge, was, you know, weird economic times, right? And so there's weird financial things happening in this, you know, motorcycle dealership company and, and, everybody's just trying to stay afloat and You find the like the friction between either the mechanic shop and the, the sales shop. And when you find those and you can solve those problems and make the experience smooth for the, for the client, right. For the customer and make that like walk in the door experience consistent and smooth. This in this case was just people, right? It wasn't even technology. wasn't really a process. It was just people. And the biggest wins are when like. the people start to notice. And then what happens is everybody's life gets better and everybody has more fun doing whatever it is that they're doing. And it just changes the vibe. Scott Dunn (12:08) I love that. I love that. I do believe very much like the work that we could be doing here. People enjoy their work more people enjoy coming to work. doesn't have to be a place that people don't want to be in or watching the class. I love you touching on that's great. Casey (12:21) Yeah, there's a balance there, right? Like, because they call it work for a reason. It's a job. We don't love everything that we do all of the time. But, you know, are we doing the things that we can do to make life good for ourselves and for others? Scott Dunn (12:33) Yes, so nice segue because what I feel like I've learned later in my career, we'll just phrase it that way, that the importance of self-care, taking care of ourselves so that we have the energy and attitude to keep doing work that we're doing, especially if you're a leading changer, in some ways you're a change artist trying to bring that about, change agent, it can be taxing. So are there things along the way that are either You just know a good way that you take care of yourself could be learning, could be space, could be the road you carry, or that you actually do to protect yourself and that work-life balance emotionally, mentally. you aren't kind of aware of, what does it look like to do good self-care and help make sure you're taking care of yourself to deliver good value in the workplace. Share what that means to you and maybe some of the things that you do. Casey (13:21) Yeah, it's so important, right? Like I am also not in the early stages of my career and still learning how to take care of myself and protect myself and, you know, build good boundaries, right? I, yes, yes. So I have good personal routines, right? Like I do yoga, I meditate. I'm a big fan of podcasts and. Scott Dunn (13:31) Hahaha Right. Boundaries is a good word, yes. Casey (13:46) I'm a learner, so I'm always learning. Maybe there's a boundary there too, like how much can you self-improve before it becomes, I don't know, toxic? But when it comes to boundaries, really it's, I start with the relationships, right? Like at work, making sure that my expectations are clear and that of my leadership chain is clear no matter what job I'm in. Scott Dunn (13:47) Hmm. you Casey (14:11) and setting boundaries that are clearly expressed so that I can protect myself and my personal life and that balance, and I can deliver the way that I'm expected to deliver. And that just makes life easier for me. Scott Dunn (14:23) Super, super, super, super. I'm thinking there's a lot of people. I it's a ways back. We cover accommodative and assertive, you know, as far as power styles and the cowl. And what's been fascinating for all these years, most people are all on the accommodative side. When I hear you say something like, hey, the expectations clear or use the word bad, that sounds like someone who has a balance of, no, I'm there for people, but I don't overextend myself to where I no good. Casey (14:23) Thank Scott Dunn (14:50) I burned something like that. So I think that's really great for everyone to hear. It hurt to define the relationship with make sure your expectations are clear for me. And then sometimes, you know, there's someone else that could take that on or might play this role, etc. But sometimes we're so helpful that we overload ourselves and actually don't do good job. We do, you know, average job on a lot of things instead of a job on a few and they could have found maybe someone else. think that's awesome. You said podcasts, there other ways, is that your way of learning? there other things that you, as far as what, for the learning side? Casey (15:26) Yeah, so books are my go-to. I'm somebody who does a lot of highlighting and note taking and flagging in books, because I'm always going back to them. And I love to learn things that are sort of outside of my lane, if you will. It's kind of how I got involved in Agile. I have a business degree in finance, and Agile doesn't really play into that until it does, right? And so I started to like, I'm curious about that, or I'm curious about Six Sigma or those types of things. And so I just sort of go find them and take the nuggets that apply directly to me and put the other ones on the shelf for like when it does apply to me, if you know what I mean. Um, so I just, I'm a learner, so I'm always looking to, to, to learn new things. I'll be frank, podcasts for me, I'm not learning things. I'm entertaining myself. Scott Dunn (16:20) I try, I try to really be focused to get, I like listening, but yeah, the actually applying is not as much. I'm definitely same about I'm a higher. Someone said the difference in studying is the pin. So I'm always like, unless I'm marking it up, am I really digging into this book or, or Kendall? So I'm to hear I'm not alone on that one. So I want to shift a little bit because some of what we've done is leading change. think the conversation we had were around. Casey (16:38) Absolutely. Scott Dunn (16:45) So moving around from just you to the broader culture, how would you describe what a great culture like or feels like? Maybe some of us haven't even been in a great company so they don't know. They can't picture, imagine what that could be like. And you've been to a number of places with different roles. What's good culture, great culture look like in your opinion? Casey (17:06) Yeah, I think that it's gotta be a cliche out there. I'm pretty sure I've seen it on a meme, but good culture is defined by how you feel on Sunday night, right? Like if you're not dreading going into work on Monday, right? Like you probably are in a culture that's a good fit for you because I think culture doesn't have a one size fits all perspective. Like big companies, small companies, different types of work, different groups of people. sort of lend themselves to different kinds of culture. I've been in companies where the culture is great for me and everybody else is miserable. And companies where the culture is great for everybody else and I'm just not a good fit. So I think that in general, good culture is... I talk about it in this like self-awareness perspective. If the culture itself is a little bit self-aware, then it is what they say it is. So if you say your culture is one thing and everybody agrees, including the culture, including the behaviors of what's expected in the environment, if all of those things are aligned, the culture is probably good, even if there are people who aren't good fits for it. I don't know if that answers your question. That's my perspective. Scott Dunn (18:03) Hehehehe That's great. Oh, it's it's better. That one's a good wrap up now. Like that really to me, it's a bit of a mic drop because it's so good. It's simple. But you're right. How you feel on Sunday night? A ton about what's happening with you and the job you have and what's happening around you. Absolutely. And that different like sometimes it is just a fit because a lot of people can be excited about it, but you're bothered by it or might rub you wrong. And I know we've gone through the values in the class as well. I've been at companies where we're absolutely about get stuff done and that's fine. But it's kind of a burnout. I love the very collaborative, but sometimes I'm like, man, I want to get stuff done. I'm getting frustrated that we're like, we really connect and talk a lot. I don't see stuff happening. So you're right. Obviously, you know, some people are sensitive to that. And that last piece about like the behavior. it should be considered. And I do sometimes see like leadership will say something or there'll be things on the walls. But you look around like, yeah, I don't actually think anyone's actually behaving that way. It's like an aspirational vibe about what they want to be, but they're not really doing it. So I think all those lenses are giving are right. And they're simple. Someone can look around and just see what you're saying. And then you make their own calculations of that. Some of the good. Some of that's a bit too. Casey (19:26) Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Scott Dunn (19:32) In the sense like either either change it for the better or You know what I mean? Like I don't want to be the person that's been there seven like this place is terrible What are you doing? What why have you been here 17 years hating it? I don't Casey (19:32) you Yeah, it's really important that we're honest with ourselves as much as our companies are honest with us, right? Like, what do I need from my job? What do I need from my career? And am I at a place that can support that? Scott Dunn (19:45) Good. Yes. Yeah, and and i'll serious in this case. I think there is some point where people I hear them And i'll just straight up. I don't think leadership has any intention to changing in the way you're describing Right. So in the end like so what would you like to do? And it's not even like it's a bad thing really. It's just like that's like It's a bit when you said that part some people are so passionate they forget like Yeah, and you're wrong like you could be wanting this coming to change in a way. It's not who they are or what they're about or you're Found by 80 people who are actually quite good with the way things The fact that you're so passionate doesn't mean you're right. It might just mean this is not a good fit. So don't stay here trying to change everything, which probably wouldn't work anyways if that's, you know, they're comfortable with what are. It's almost like in self-preservation, just say, I just need to exercise my agency and there's not a good guy. What's that song? There Ain't No Good Guy, There Ain't No Bad Guy. It's me and you and we just disagree. You move on to another and they'll be happier somewhere else is what I would think. So I think that's a good perspective. People can get past space about, you know, and agile and all that and then rail against something that's an immovable in some organizations. Casey (21:08) Yeah, being aware of the things that you can control, the things that you can't control, is really the crux of your own sanity, if you will. Scott Dunn (21:16) Yeah, it's a good way of saying it, Yeah, and you can control a lot of that. You can influence it. can influence it. Let me follow up on that because clearly, in my opinion, seems like you've that about bringing about change when you don't necessarily have authority. You can't dictate to some of these folks. What do you think is a key aspect of being successful around influence or people who... I get asked this all the time, how do we influence, how do we manage up, et cetera. What would you prefer as your thoughts on that about influencing others? Casey (21:50) Yeah, I actually listened to a podcast recently about leading without influence. one of the key comments, I guess I am also learning through podcasts, I guess. But one of the comments in the podcast was there are people who lead with a hammer, people who lead with influence. And I kind of love that because I haven't been a people leader in more than a decade. Scott Dunn (21:55) There you go. So they are some good. Casey (22:13) which means I don't have any authority, right? I lead all of my influence. All of my leadership is through influence. And the way that I approach that is I start with. It's a, it's a gooey word, but empathy, understanding the people that I'm talking to and working with and understanding what they need and what their challenges are, and then meeting them where they are. Right. The easiest way to gain influence with. Most people, is to build trust and to build trust, need to build relationships. And so I would say 90 % of my influence comes first from relationships. And probably the other 10 % comes from my ability to stand up and say, I was wrong when I did something wrong or when my perspective was incorrect and when I behaved outside my values, like just owning it up when I'm like, Scott Dunn (22:59) Wow. Casey (23:04) Yeah, I was having a bad day. I apologize. There's a lot of trust that comes from that kind of vulnerability. Scott Dunn (23:11) Yeah, which is not easy to do not easy to do But I've been in meetings where I like I know it like I don't play this year But I like things so in some ways people look at influence about how we phrase things or how we present but you're just saying like look happy build a real relationship Have some humility if you're willing to say we're wrong. So people know you'll also that when you're wrong or made of your core element of strength or something like that. think that's a real nice, everyone, if you think about that, that's not out of any of us to say, you know what, I'm going to try to be more honest and authentic and have some empathy and try to listen. Casey (23:45) Absolutely. It also helps to be able to connect the dots across different people and what they need and the strategy of whatever project you're working on so that you can connect the change to something that is it like what's in it for me, right? So what's in it for the people that you're talking to and being able to connect those things. So it's not just relationships and empathy, right? That's the soft stuff. It's that ability to really critically think about what it is you're driving change for. Scott Dunn (24:08) Mm-hmm. Casey (24:12) and connecting it to how each of these different stakeholders can benefit. Scott Dunn (24:18) Yeah, the part about connecting the dots and this is one thing if I'm ever in a meeting and I feel like I'm not getting it I actually will pause into my head. I'm thinking What is this person's concerns? And if I can't if I can't clear that I'd probably need to ask more questions but for any of us in those meetings just kind of go around through those stakeholders the people sitting around the desk or on the zoom and quick like in a sentence or two what what would be important to them? What are they? What's the win or what's the pain? But if you don't feel like you can articulate, then the good thing is you have to see that asking questions around that is never a problem because they're actually share because you're basically asking them about yourself. Tell me what's important to you. And they would like to share that. And it doesn't hurt to double check that. So I love what you're saying about connected dots. It won't be necessary that they're saying what you're listening and watching. I also watch what they react to. So something might jump out that would be outside of their say their role. but it's about people and there's an aspect that they really do care about how their people feel, not just the, this process is important in terms of our strategy and the technology we're using, but it might come out like, well, all their people would be really excited to put their hands on that new technology too. But they're not gonna say that because that sounds like that's a weak reason to be for a project, but you know it's important to them because they lead those people or that person. So I like what you're saying, connect the dots, think about those perspectives, because the empathy is gonna help them to connect in the dots, right? more is emotional than the logic of that stuff. So think that's great. Really, really great. On this, I believe you're remote, correct? Partially? Okay. ⁓ fully. Okay. Let's talk about that small. It hasn't come up in the last five years, but let's talk remote. So from your experience, it's always a big topic to me. I do care about this. I think we deal with a lot, every company, because some people at least that are remote, or certainly partial remote, Casey (25:45) I am. Fully. Scott Dunn (26:05) What's your thoughts on what to be worried about and what to make that successful? you're seeing more and more almost like these two sides of the aisle, maybe some aspect of demanding people come back. And yet you have a whole generation who can't buy a house. So I'm figuring out where's the balance of remote work. So yeah, your thoughts on remote work, how to make it successful scene. Casey (26:27) Yeah, I mean, I have two different ways I could approach this, right? I have the personal thing that what works for me part, right? But as somebody who is often having these conversations with people who are in various buckets of people who are, know, partially remote, fully remote, fully in the office, that kind of a thing, I find that what I think is less relevant every single day. I for sure feel I have a lot of privilege. Scott Dunn (26:33) Mm-hmm. Casey (26:50) being fully remote. Like that's really cool because it's good for me. I'm at a spot in my career where it makes sense. I'm good at building relationships in lots of different kinds of ways, including through, you know, zoom meetings and that type of thing. But I don't think that there's a right answer. I think that the each company and each team and each group of people need to find what works best for them. and make that happen. I see real benefit to being together, especially when you're early in your career or when you're doing something that you need a whiteboard. I mean, I'm pretty good at Mural. I'm pretty good at using the whiteboard in the Zoom meeting, but there's no replacement for standing at a whiteboard with a bunch of stickies and flowing out process. So I just don't... Scott Dunn (27:33) That's so true. You're so right. Casey (27:40) I don't know that there's a right answer. And I think that different size companies have different complexity of making that decision. And it sort of goes back to that comment we were making before. Like, if it isn't a good fit for you, find something that is. You know, I don't know. That's my thought. That's my thought. Scott Dunn (28:00) Yeah, true. Makes sense. For the folks that are managing or leading these remote work, are things that they do to make that go better in their context. Casey (28:12) Absolutely. are ways to, especially if you have hybrid, it even gets more complex, right? All virtual is the easiest way of virtual, right? Because then everybody's always virtual and you're always on Zoom and you're always on Slack and whatever. That's for sure the easiest way to manage teams that are virtual. When you have that hybrid space, you've got that opportunity to be in a conference room or in a huddle group or in the cafeteria. and on Zoom meetings, and it gets kind of funky, right? Because sometimes you can't hear, or you have those water cooler conversations. The key really is to have what I found is a good working agreement, right? Like, what types of communication are we going to have? How are we going to do that? What happens when we had a really great conversation in the break room? How do we communicate that to the rest of the team who wasn't there? And really just sort of build team trust through a good quality executed working agreement. And sometimes that takes a little bit more effort from the leader or even from every individual, right? But that's part of that culture, right? Scott Dunn (29:16) Right. I think the folks you make me think that's personally in a meeting and it's good that I try to get the groups together in these different locations as they're talking. I can't tell. I talking. I don't know these. I don't know them all that well. So I can't I can't tell by voice yet. If these are different groups are working with each other. The thing is, look, that person's kind of off camera or either they're on camera. They're so far back. Is that is their mouth moving? Is there a delay? I can't tell. So that sets the connection. I'm surprised for me as a more of a relator, how much it becomes a problem like nothing beats in person. So at least get that regularly. get in person. There was another client that saying that very same thing. Like they love it when we all get back together. And so they kind of have their cadence of pulling the whole group better. Could be like you're off site, could be all hands could be, but I think those opportunities to keep connection. I do like remote. I do think you have a good point about depending on the maturity of the career. Some people just know like I know I got to take care of these biopsy that they've noticed other XYZ. So they do too. So if they're new in their career, they may not even catch that I should be probably working. what is this at home on the zoom and in their PJs or something like that. I think it's a good point. Look at those and also the work. The fact that you would take that to the team and say, what do you all think is very empowering. You have an open conversation around what they all think and definitely there's a assumptions that people are making about what it should be, et cetera, but they those explicit and they kind of carry that around with them a little. Right. So that's a yeah, really nice nugget on that. That's everyone for sure. So last thing I'm to add a little bit on the back on leading change. So in this case, it could be remote, could be these other projects that we'll try to adapt. I think you'd say this earlier about there's no company that's not going through this crazy time of change right now. When it comes to change, have you seen something that's helpful, especially if it's a more significant change, you gave some good fundamentals around influence and trust and relationship, empathy, et cetera. Are there other aspects on how that change is rolled out or a process change or the groups that are leading the change that you've seen be like more systemically just successful aside that people might change, but the way we handle change is done this way. That you think there's a tip or two out there that would help out. They're trying to kick off, you know, a new way of working. We're trying to refresh remote policies or how they work, Because a lot of people in the middle of change. Have you seen overarching themes about how this lead that you found have been more successful? Casey (31:57) Yeah, think, gosh, it's the hardest thing, right? Like figuring out a way to roll out change across teams is the most challenging thing that I've ever done. And I've been doing it for a long time. And I'm always learning new ways and new ways not to do things and all that jazz, right? I have this little nugget that I got from a mentor. Scott Dunn (32:11) Hahaha, yeah. Casey (32:24) 20 years ago almost, and he's a motorcycle rider. And when you ride a motorcycle, the thing that you do to go on a corner is to turn your head, right? Turn your head to get to where you're going. And the non-motorcycle sort of connection to that is the what's my plan. And so really understanding what the plan is so that you can very clearly articulate what it is you're doing at each phase of the change. If you're prepping people for change, what's the plan? If you're starting to design a project, what's the plan? And just get really clear with where you're going, what the expectations are, what each individual person's role is, and be explicit about it because we're all dealing with a lot of things coming at us all the time. And if you're leading with kindness and you're saying, okay, your part of this is to simply accept the change. That's not condescending, that's empowering. That tells that person that like, this decision has been made, I gotta get myself there, and this person's here to help me get there. And so just being really clear about it, that's the biggest thing for me that I've seen that is successful. It's hard to do though, because that's a lot of people and a lot of Scott Dunn (33:36) Yeah. Well, yes, that's why it makes it so surprising. Number of times a company has to bring in outside help to get the change because it's not a capability or muscle they really have about how to change ourselves. Right. We execute against what we build or do here really well for help. But but that idea of getting outside the box and thinking different how we can improve, like you said, poke holes and so that's why I like it that there's someone When a company sees someone with your skill set and the way that you're wired and leverages it to say like, we kind of informally have this person like really helping things about because it's commonly not a muscle that they really have. Sometimes they have the awareness they don't, but sometimes they don't the long, really large change initiatives that take a long time and either never really get off the ground or never really where they should have gone or before they kind of just either die on the vine or we just call it, you know, just call it good. They don't draw in. It gets a group above everyone trying to lay change on top of folks instead of incorporate everyone into change and then go through it together. Learning together with someone like you that can connect the dots, connect with people, can bring that about. And think in a way it's really powerful and effective. Yeah, I was going to tease you. don't know if you have anything on that. But you mentioned books, you mentioned podcasts. Do have any favorites that you just would throw out? Classic go to book, current read, current podcast. Casey (35:01) My favorite all time book is a book called Wolf Pack by Abby Wambach. She's a soccer player, she's fantastic, and it's a book about leadership. It's like 70 pages long. It has a set of like four rules. And yeah, it's written from a like, you know, girl power, woman empowerment, leadership empowerment kind of thing, but it's universally adaptable to life, to it doesn't matter what your gender might be. what your job might be, Wolfpack. I can't recommend it enough. And then most recently, I read the let them theory and it's life changing. It's not a new topic, right? It's not a new concept. Of course you should control the things that you should stress about the things that you can control and let the things you can't control go, right? There's lots of different places that that comes up, but Mel Robbins just did a great job, like putting it into stories that you could like directly apply it to your life, or at least for me anyway. And I find myself quoting that book to myself pretty regularly. Yeah. Scott Dunn (36:03) That's a good sign. That's a really good sign. I find myself too. That's I literally will go through something. I start to realize like you've mentioned this book or this thing like three times now in the last few weeks. Like, OK, that's obviously significant. You didn't miss a time. you make another really good point. I really say like at the meta level in some ways, when it impacts you personally and you connect to it personally, it's going to be helpful and relevant in the work you do because you're going to be sharing the expression of who you are. And I say that because some people will go like, here's this top leadership book this year. I'm to read this well-known. And sometimes I'll struggle to just like really pick the book. Even if it is good content, I don't connect to it. I'm not sharing with others. It's not part. It doesn't become a home and gets spread. So I love what you're saying. Casey (36:48) completely agree with that. read, I spent a lot of time last year reading a book called Mind Your Mindset. I don't know if you've read that one. But in theory, it's great. But it's so business focused that like I didn't personally relate to it. And so I had to go find some other book that was less business structured to, to like, bolster that topic. All the words were the same. It's just the storyline really, really changes it for me. So telling stories, right, is the most important thing of how we connect. to the world. Scott Dunn (37:20) Yes, yes, yes. And I believe in that. That's how we're just wired. brains are wired. Story really sticks. And you're making me think like, yeah, those books I recommend the most are more not have a lot of stories, even if it's less directly tied to the work I do. Maybe it's not even technology. It's not even maybe it's not even around business, but it's got stories they do and stick and connect. I love that. So I'll check that out. I have not read Will Peck. I think I've seen it, but now that I know it, pages I'm also enticed to on that. I can get through it. Casey (37:52) It's one hour of your time max. Scott Dunn (37:53) us. If I can't do that over breakfast, then what's going on? Awesome. I appreciate that. This has been great. I think there's a lot of nuggets for folks that are listening. I wouldn't be surprised, by the way, that this could get chopped up into part one, part two. I think we like them. But this is great because I think it's a great part one, part two, given how we kind of split the conversations. And I love the personal aspect on that as well. So thank Thank Casey for the time. It's been wonderful. think I really look forward to people's feedback on this and a lot of takeaways, a lot of that can be, they can try out some of these things very next week in terms of how they show up and who they are and what they're about. There's just a whole lot of good pieces of this that I think are readily possible for so many people. So I really, really appreciate that too as well. I'm on automatic sites. love them. The Builder Backs, they can do something right away with that. And you gave them a lot of Thank you for that. Thank you for your time. I know you have a lot on your plate. for us, but you appreciate it. Hope to see you soon. Thanks Casey. Casey (38:54) Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you. Scott Dunn (38:57) Woo!

What does it look like to lead a 300-person software org inside a 1,000-person company—and still stay focused on people first? Brendan Wovchko shares what he's learned about leadership, agility, and building a culture that actually works. Overview Brendan Wovchko, CTO at Ramsey Solutions, joins Scott Dunn to talk about what it really takes to lead Agile teams inside a large, fast-moving organization. From developing leadership habits to navigating team dynamics and staying grounded in purpose, this conversation is full of thoughtful takeaways for anyone working at the intersection of people, process, and product. References and resources mentioned in the show: Brendan Wovchko Ramsey Solutions #80: From Struggling to Success: Reviving Agile Teams with Mike Cohn #143: What Still Makes Teams Work (and Win) with Jim York What Is a High-Performing Agile Team? by Mike Cohn Four Quick Ways to Gain or Assess Team Consensus by Mike Cohn Elements of Agile Assessment Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Brendan Wovchko is the CTO of Ramsey Solutions and a lifelong student of what it takes to build great software, lead great people, and scale both with purpose. With roots in engineering and startups, he brings decades of hands-on experience in product, leadership, and agile culture—plus a knack for turning big ideas into results that matter.

How do you grow a remote-first team from 30 to over 100 while still being voted a "great place to work"? Ginger Boyll says it’s part Agile mindset, part trust, and part Dungeons & Dragons—and we’re not arguing. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, guest host Scott Dunn sits down with Ginger Boyll, Director of Client Experience at Stable Kernel, for a refreshingly candid conversation about leadership, collaboration, and creating cultures where people thrive, even remotely. From the magic of psychological safety to timesheet woes, CliftonStrengths charts, and the underrated art of letting someone else just do the thing, this episode is a masterclass in how empathy and agility show up far beyond process. References and resources mentioned in the show: Ginger Boyll Stable Kernel The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmonson Range by David Epstein Built to Last by Jim Collins Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell The Coaching Habit by Michael Bungay Stanier Paul Graham’s Maker’s Schedule, Manager’s Schedule 25 Questions That Will Help You Know Your Teammates Better Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Ginger Boyll is the Director of Client Experience at Stable Kernel. She is a natural problem-solver with a passion for people, bringing deep experience in Agile delivery, tech strategy, and cross-functional collaboration to every project she touches.

Can being "nice" at work actually hold you back? Join Brian and Scott Dunn as they unravel the myths around workplace "niceness," explore the balance between kindness and assertiveness, and reveal how honest communication can earn you respect—and maybe even that long-overdue promotion. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian and Scott dig deep into the question: Do nice guys (or gals) really finish last at work? They discuss the critical balance between being accommodating and assertive, why conflict can be a tool for growth, and how emotional intelligence plays into team dynamics. With stories, tips, and the psychological truths behind professional success, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to navigate workplace interactions while staying true to themselves. References and resources mentioned in the show: Scott Dunn Bill of Assertive Rights Elements of Agile Radical Candor Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We're back and we're here for another episode of the Agile Mentors podcast. I'm with you as always, Brian Milner. And today we have friend of the show, buddy of the show, Scott Dunn is back with us. Welcome in Scott. Scott (00:13) Hey Brian, great to be back as always. Love it. Brian (00:17) Love to have Scott on as always and if you've listened to some of the past episodes with him then you know why. If not, I encourage you to check it out after this episode. We wanted to have Scott on earlier this year just to talk about some things that might be percolating in a few people's heads with the turn of the year and kind of as you start to prepare and look forward and maybe even look back a little bit in things. And particularly deal with an issue around how people show up at work and Scott was saying to me earlier, kind of this phrase about, nice guys finish last? Do they finish first? Do they finish last? Can you be nice? Can you be nice at work and be promoted? Can you be nice at work and move upwards? Or do you have to not be nice? Scott (01:03) you Brian (01:11) in order to do that. So tell me a little bit about kind of the genesis of the idea from you, Scott. What have you been hearing or what's been crossing your path? Scott (01:17) Yeah, and I'm so glad we had a chance to talk about this because it's recent. So the first thing that sparked my thought on this, so granted in the leadership class, we talk about being a balance of accommodative and assertive, and I'll usually refer to a... a document called the Bill of Assertive Rights. And I was reading another book this week and actually it referenced the same thing. I thought, switching fast forward a few days and I'm doing an assessment with a company that's asked for help because they're not, they're struggling with quality, they're struggling with predictability. And I know what the leaders goals are for the efforts. And so now I'm meeting with all the team members to do an actual formal assessment for baseline. Now, and this assessment, you're going to go through, I don't know, 30, 40 questions. So it's not lightweight. It's trying to be tactical, like, Is the team well formed? Is the backlog in good shape? Do you have a roadmap? Are the leaders supporting the change? I mean, whether company level, product level, team level, and we even added some advanced questions. And the fascinating thing is over a course of all these questions, the answer was essentially, we're okay at that, right? If you ask them, are they doing this practice or not, they'd say, somewhat. And it didn't matter if it was the most basic thing at the team level or the most advanced thing at the corporate level, everything was okay. So when you look at the dashboard at the end, in our normal red, yellow, the whole thing was yellow. And so I just paused and said, you know, I've never seen this before. I said, yeah, I joke with them a little bit about that, but I said, you know, my friends kind of think about it. It actually doesn't make sense that you would be okay at the fundamental beginning things and also okay at advanced high level things. So it's usually progressive, right? You get the basics down like the satiric change curve. That's kind of what we're following. So now... And then what came out later in the conversations is that someone said basically, we're afraid to say things that are hard to hear. He used the word judgment. Like we don't want to kind of stand in judgment of others, but essentially saying something that someone's not going to hear, whether it's true or not, because they had nothing green, nothing red. So not doing well. And then the last thing that really got me triggered, you know, really start diving into this is this new year and people are getting this promotions and things going on at some of the companies. And there was a story of this one guy, like, I've worked here eight years and never been promoted. And yet everyone loves this person. Everyone likes this person. And I'm hopping on social media and someone asked that question, literally, like, give me an example of when nice guys finish last. And the guy said the same thing. He said, I am the one everyone goes to for help. I'm always ready to help. I'll do anything anyone needs. Everyone likes me. They all praise me. And I haven't been promoted in like 13 years. So partly for our own careers, partly for, you know, being a change agent, et cetera, I thought it'd be worth, you know, just having to... It's a great conversation topic, Brian (03:51) Yeah, well, I'll confirm part of that, or at least a couple of crossovers there with what you said, because there's an assessment kind of thing that we do at Mountain Good as well called Elements of Agile. And one of the things we learned early on in doing that was you would pull the data from the survey, from actually asking them. But then before we present it back, we always have a coach who kind of does interviews as well, and then manually can shift and adjust things. And one of the things I've learned as being one of those coaches who does that is if there's something that's negative that's said, if there's, you know, we give like a five point scale, you know, five is really great, one is terrible, and you know, what number is it? If it's a little bit over into the negative side, you never get anything that's like all the way over at one, right? Nobody ever comes back to you and says, that's terrible. Scott (04:44) you Brian (04:46) but they will say, that's a three or that's a two. If it's a two, that's severe. That's kind of what I've learned is two is severe, three is bad. And you kind of have to shift those things over one notch to say, people are, their niceness are entering into this and they don't want it to be, they don't want it to look too bad. They don't know how it's gonna reflect on them. They don't know how it's gonna reflect on others. And so they don't want it to look Scott (04:50) Yeah. Okay. Yes. Brian (05:15) too bad, so they tend to like skew it a little bit towards the positive. Yeah. Scott (05:20) Yes, and the thing I think is good from that so one I keep coming back to you know self preservation this world kind of wired for this and someone was mentioning recently It's you know, shouldn't say people are selfish. We should say they have self in the center So if I'm gonna I'm just with you like if I'm gonna give feedback I'm honestly just pass facts or for those listening. I think it's totally fine say well Is it really worth it for me to say something that I'm going to have to end up explaining if a manager figures out that was me that said it because I'm the only one working on that project or whatever, right? In some ways, you're like, no, it's not worth it. I'll just kind of gently say it's not going great. Like you said, it's almost like that bell curve you got shifted over because, the professor's like, there's only, I'll only give out two A's each semester because that's truly exceptional. And so it moves it. It's a little like that. But then when you and I were talking earlier, you mentioned that conflict quadrants. And I thought that was really great because I think that's a clear structure that people could refer to as well. It's kind think about how they have interactions not just at work, but seriously in our other relationships. thought I was looking at like, man, this is so fitting. So I just thought that was a good tool to share as well. Brian (06:18) Yeah, it's interesting to see how that kind of affects people and how that affects their answers and how it affects how they're reporting. And there's a crossover here as well, because I know if you've listened to this podcast for a while, last year I did a talk on conflict management and kind of how to navigate that a little bit from a team lead or a Scrum Master kind of perspective. And it's a very sticky area that I think there's not enough training and there's not enough kind of education in. And one of the kind of interesting things that comes out from that, or came out from that conversation was, well, a couple things. One is that conflict, oftentimes we attempt to avoid it entirely, but that's a big mistake. Conflict is actually necessary for growth and if there's not any conflict then you get the kind of bad situation of we never question each other, we never challenge each other. There's a story about how that was actually something that happened at Chernobyl. A lot of the research kind of pointed to that's actually part of the root cause of why that happened is that they were all experts in their field and so they had such respect for each other that they didn't question each other when something was gonna go wrong. And so they miss this kind of basic tenet of, no, if I see something that's not, doesn't look right, I should speak up. And it may cause conflict, but it's necessary. It's necessary for us to be better. Scott (07:44) Right. Absolutely. And that quadrant that the Thomas Kilman model is so great because, for me, well, two things was one, I love it that they can say, hi, be highly assertive. You can still be highly cooperative. And that's that collaborative environment. So if we're really trying to create solutions, whether that's at work or in our relationships, then you're gonna have to assert, you be assertive and not that I'm gonna raise my voice, but I should share what I think or my opinion or if I disagree. And I think some of that when I was coming back down to it is there's still a tendency for people to feel like I need to be in the goodwill of others, right? So from the, you know, the 10, the bill of assertive rights, the 10 assertive rights, that's one of them. Like I need to be independent of the goodwill of others so I can be honest. I'm not trying to be, we can do this respectfully and winsomely and not be a jerk. But you have to let go of, if I say something I don't like, that would be bad. Or if I say something that makes someone happy, right? And I used to struggle with that. I don't want them to be sad. I don't want them to be upset, right? So now back to that quadrant, I'm not asserting myself and I'm obviously not helping them, so I'm just avoiding. And I'm avoiding the situation. It's the elephant in the room in these meetings. And now everyone's almost like, as a culture, we're kind of in cahoots. We all agree we're not gonna say anything, which makes it even tougher for anyone else not to kind of stand up and do just what you're saying, which I think is absolutely true. Speaking of that, so. Brian (09:07) Yeah, well, and just to clarify, too, I mean, you're talking about the Thomas Killen model. If people aren't familiar with that, basically, it's five different responses that people typically have to conflict in one way, form. When they encounter conflict, it's competing, collaborating, avoiding, compromising, or accommodating. those are kind of the, there are variances between anything like that. There's going to be some gray levels between them. Those are kind of the basic points. And I was telling Scott earlier, one of the things we talk about in our ACSM is when we present this information is that you kind of have to get out of your head the idea that any of these are bad. For example, the competing approach to things, the competing approach says, my relationship with the person is not as important as my stance on whatever this issue is. I cannot budge from my position. And I will jeopardize the relationship if that's what's required. That's a competing approach. And you initially read that and think, that's wrong. Nobody should take that kind of approach to a conflict. And in general, that should be our default kind of approach to conflict. But there are times when that's the right approach. When someone says something that's completely out of bounds, completely out of line, I'm going to take a competing approach. And there are times when people need to Scott (10:08) Mm-hmm. you Okay. Brian (10:30) to be presented with that for their own good. That they kind of recognize, wow, this is so important that he's willing to kind of not have a relationship with me anymore if this continues. And that's important, I think. Yeah. Scott (10:41) Yes. yeah, and I think that those examples of the people that get promoted, someone else had referenced and said essentially, it's you telling the, you know, I won't say the ugly truth, but. The thing that no one else is saying, your ability to say what no one else is saying to someone in leadership or management earns their trust. So at some level, whoever is the leadership whisperer, telling the truth on some of these things, and there was only one slot that's gonna influence and lead us to be promoted into, right? I've gotta know, if I'm wise as a senior exec, I gotta have the wisdom to know that I know lots of people probably just tell me what I wanna hear. I'm looking for the person who tells me maybe what I don't wanna hear. Brian (10:58) Ha Scott (11:24) It does it in nice way again though. From that standpoint, I can see why some of those people get promoted and some don't because you're so nice they actually don't trust you. Because you're not, to your point, I'm not willing to have conflict. I'm not willing to gamble what you might think of me for the sake of the betterment of everyone else. So there's some part where I think it's good. My takeaway looking at some of this is come back around to say, all right, check yourself when you have these conversations, just do that mental pause and say, Are you truly acting independent of what they might think? You know, do you have their best sensors or harder? Are you okay if they might respond a certain way? But it's almost like check that I'm outcome independent. So I'm being straight up and honest with them. Cause in this case, doing this assessment, try to work with the team, like, well, how hard is it to help the team or help anyone else who's actually not being honest about where things are? I don't have anything to work with now, right? Or like, yeah, I got to just take what they say is not great and then slide it down. So I recognize. And honestly, it's actually bad, but for all of us and the change, not just for our careers, but as change leaders anyways, checking that we're comfortable doing that. think growing that comfort, know, comfortability we can do. And I think it's just great for the career. And I see people getting promoted in these opportunities. Absolutely worth it. Brian (12:37) Well, there's one other story I want to share here that kind of is, this is a story from my past, one of the jobs I worked at. There was a project that we worked on that a lot of people probably will identify with this. The managers in the organization had set a deadline for it without talking to the people who actually were going to do it. from the, yeah, right. And from the very start, my developers that, Scott (12:56) No. Brian (13:01) that worked with me there on it were saying, this is impossible. It's not just that this is a little bit off, it's completely impossible. There's no way that we're going to do this. But the managers were like, well, you'll get it done. You'll get it done. And so they went forward and publicized the schedule and went all the way up to the top of the company. And the CEO knew that that was the timeline. And well, the CEO found himself in an elevator with one of my developers at one point. Scott (13:17) Board. Brian (13:30) just to ask him, hey, how's that project going? And my developer kind of sighed a little bit and said, well, you do you want the truth? Do you want the picture that everyone's painting? And he was like, well, obviously, I always want the truth. And so he told him, and he had a phrase that he used there that has stuck with me to this day. And that is, he said, bad news is not like wine. It doesn't get better with age. Scott (13:40) Wow. Yeah. Brian (13:57) And I think that's an important thing to keep in mind is that when there's something wrong, when there's something that's not right, the sooner we can identify it and shed light on it, the faster we can do something about it, the more options we have to do something about it. And the closer it is to when it's due or when we're supposed to have that thing happen or whatever, the less that we can do about it. So I'll even give a shout out. know. I can't imagine he's listening, but. Scott (13:58) Ooh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Brian (14:25) But that was a guy named Dave Ellet. So Dave, if you're listening, it's still stuck with me to this day. But that's a great phrase. And I think it's really apparent here. mean, being a nice guy, it's nicer, I think, to make sure that people understand the truth than it is to let the deception go on. Scott (14:29) Ha ha. Yeah, so two things on that Brian is one totally agree with you It might be hard to deliver some of this news But if you fast forward how much harder it will be for them when they have no time to make adjustments for the customer or the DNA Right and I'll tell them that right especially the product owner class You do me no favors by giving me like a week or two to tell the customer actually No, tell me now six months out that there might be some concerns, right? That's a lot easier. It's not easy, but man. It gets a lot worse That's one. I love way there's the example does not get better with age. The other thing is I think on a personal level, those who are not maybe saying what should be said or needs to be said or giving people that kind of, you know, honest feedback, you know, would you rather know now or in your performance review that there's a problem to not tell them that is in some ways what I was feeling for me is I'm actually now trying to control the optics I've seen. So it's actually a weird, it can be seen as a weird way of like, I'm just being selfish. So I'm actually not a nice guy. I'm a guy with these covert contracts about I want you to think this of me, so therefore I'm actually telling you the truth as your own coworker or peer about something that's really important you should know about, or my manager. I'm actually making sure that I, you know, take me first and take care of myself, but actually in a very short-term way out of fear versus a good worker would tell the truth and as I'm saying, probably he has more career opportunities by being one of the few people that. is a truth-telling organization like your developer and with the elevator to CEO because think about what CEO thinks of him now as well as what CEO now thinks about all the other one else is saying like, no, we're on track, we're on track, right? Those just probably reversed opinion in his ideas in his head about who he can trust to tell the truth about where things are going in these critical projects. So great example, great example. Brian (16:29) Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that gets to kind of the heart of this topic too. mean, you think you're talking about, you know, can you be nice? And if you're nice, is it possible to be recognized and still move ahead? And to me, think there's, this is where it starts to get really deeply psychological because I think you have to question what is your definition of nice? You know? Scott (16:47) Hmm. Brian (16:53) Because I think some people have a misaligned definition of what it means to be nice. I don't think it's nice to allow the deception to go on. I think that's not nice. I think that's something that, you know what I mean? You don't appreciate, like you said, as a product owner, as the leader in the organization, that's not nice to them to let that go on. And we might sit back and say, I'm not going to... Scott (17:14) No. Brian (17:20) I'm not going to raise red flags. I'm not going to be the squeaky wheel. I'm going to be the guy who just gets by because I'm a nice guy. We're using guy, but please understand. It's just a term. It's just a phrase that applies to women as much as it does men. So I'm not saying the gender specific thing here. Please, please forgive us for that. But just that that's kind of the concept behind it is I don't want to make waves. I want to be the nice person in this organization. I want to be seen as nice. Scott (17:40) Yeah. Yeah. Brian (17:45) your definition of nice might need to be readjusted. Scott (17:48) Yeah, huge point. think that kind of those words matter. And I think if someone would look at what they like, re-evaluate what you think is going to get you where you want to go, as well as what you would want from others as a teammate. then, and then for me, what I have to do is I have to backtrack and say, so why did you not say anything in the meeting? There's a time way back when I was working with the manager in the meeting that he was very supportive of what his colleague was sharing and the idea of someone she's presenting it to the other peers and the VP, everyone liked it except for one person who spoke out. because that one person, you know, the VP put the whole thing on hold afterwards. just asked that manager said, I thought you liked her idea. He said, yeah, no, I liked her idea a lot. So when the other person says something, why, why didn't you say something back? Right. And said, you stand up for what you thought was a good idea. What she was saying. But was the same idea of like, don't want to make any waves. But he said later, goes, that was the most important question I had to be asked about. I do need to speak out. I do need to be assertive in these meetings and say what my view is too, not just what they say, go along to get along. Like, and now we're just letting, you know, projects and this should go off track, right? No one's calling it for what it is. Brian (18:52) Ha Right. Yeah. So I think it's possible. Scott (18:57) So I think, yeah, that part. Brian (18:59) Sorry, I was just gonna say, I think it's perfectly possible to be assertive at certain points and take strong stances on certain things, but not compromise your niceness. I don't think that makes you a mean person. It may not make you everyone's favorite person every moment of the day, but it's nicer. People respect people who are honest. Scott (19:25) That's a good word, respect. Right. Right. Yeah. I wish there was a secondary word and we can be friendly in these other things. and I love what you said. Like it may be nice to not tell the, you know, you think it's nice, but people should know those things that they're not hearing. And that part's not nice. I think that aspect of maybe self-preservation to the detriment of others and then re-examining why, why do I feel like I need to do that? You know, for me, that was probably at work as well. Right. Is it, what was one person said? Harm versus hurt. This might hurt them in the moment, but it doesn't harm. So the shot to the dentist, the needle, that does hurt, but it's not harming them. Sugar tastes great, doesn't hurt at all, but it harms you. So kind of maybe reflect back on what does it mean to have your peers, your colleagues, your company's best interest at heart, and then what keeps us from that, right? And what are we looking out for? Are we that risk anyways? Yeah. In any case, I like that tool. I'm glad you brought that up. Brian (20:19) Yeah, I think there's also, I think it's important to say, know, like this with a lot of things, there's a balance. And we probably, know Scott, you probably have had this as well, but I've had a couple of people I've worked with throughout my career who just, they weren't concerned about being the nice person. They were much more of the outspoken and they would say things very bluntly when something was not going. Scott (20:25) Mm-hmm. You Brian (20:43) in a good direction. I think that's where NICE enters the equation, right? NICE is not letting it go, but NICE is being able to cushion a little bit what it is you're saying so that it's not just a slap across the face, but it's more of just maybe we want to reconsider that. Maybe we want to think about that, or have we thought of, or have we considered what the implication might be in this area. That's a much more digestible way of taking in that kind of news than it is to just say, well, that sucks, or that's going to be terrible, or you're going to fail miserably at that. And I've had people I've worked with who that's the kind of way that they respond. Scott (21:14) Yeah, right. Yeah, almost like a judgmental view of that. It comes across and I think some people maybe miss that. I know there's a big, you know, space on emotional IQ or EQ. I think that that's really valid and kind of checking yourself on that. I think some people don't read those. signals or they'll say like, well, someone needs to say it. Well, you didn't have to say it like that though, because we, I think we all want to be effective. So if we're not careful, then you, might be true, but they're not hearing you now. So you're still not effective in what you want to do, which is communicate that concern. So there is some part and that's what I like about radical candor. We do want empathy and we do want to care. So what you're kind of touching on, which I think is really great. If you take it that away, then we're just going to, we could actually make things even worse. So it's not a license. partly I see happen a lot and maybe you've been in these meetings and my friends listening, you know, you probably have too, where something said that you can tell there's a lot more underneath that, like that person's just mad, right? You can just tell bitterness or resentment or something's coming out. And again, other people can read that and it's not helpful. One, probably doesn't help you get your idea across, but two, it's just not helpful for you or to carry that around. So for me, I'm always trying to catch it like, is there emotion underneath this, if so? You gotta deal with that. Like you might need to wait to say this until there's not, you don't feel that emotion coming across. Cause then those things get said like you'd said under the guise of, I'm just trying to be honest with them. But look, that was a lot more that wasn't necessary and there's emotion. We've all sometimes worked at places with people that maybe wrote us the wrong way, or you've been a certain job for a long time and it can kind of bubble out in those meetings. So again, a great opportunity to kind of check and say, Where's my emotional bandwidth as I go and have this conversation? And I think also, what do you want? What do you want from the outcome of these things? Some we can control, some we can't. I might want to raise, but I'm not in control of that. But I'm in control of what time I show up, what I'm reading for work, being ready for meetings. I'm in control of that, and hopefully those things could come. So also, I know it's near the beginning of the year, get opportunity on goals and being clear about what you want. Because I think if we don't have a true north for ourself, it's easy to be what everyone else wants at the workplace. We don't actually have a sense of self anyway. So yeah, sure. I'll do whatever you want for me. And it's not even maybe, you know, maybe helping me move forward as well or maybe I'm sacrificing. So that's good timing for that as well for folks who are into doing goals or you have your, you know, 2025 roadmap in front of you. It might be a personal growth area. think it's good for everyone to take a look at at least. Brian (23:44) Yeah, and I think it's good to we propose this kind of can you get ahead? And so there is kind of the the weird marriage here a little bit of of how leadership plays into this. And, know, there is a view of management or leadership sometimes that is one that is much more authoritarian. And so I've known people who feel like, well, if I'm going to get to that level, then I need to. Scott (23:48) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Brian (24:09) be able to demonstrate that a little bit more. And I think there's a misunderstanding there as well. I don't think that's really what's required or is what's helpful in a leadership kind of position. It's kind of that whole paradigm of, do you feel your job as the leader is to push everyone towards the goal? Or do you feel like the... Scott (24:12) Mm. Brian (24:31) the job is to clear everything out in front of them so that they can easily reach the goal. That's a big difference in management style that I think can be really reflective in whether they're seen as nice or not nice. Scott (24:37) Yeah. Yeah, right. It's funny you say that because I was just hearing this from someone else as well. Like, the amount of leaders out there who don't have clarity on their goals and vision. So to your point, now you made it doubly hard for my people to try to aim themselves towards these goals. You know, of essentially self-organized, self-leadership, work on themselves to get there. It's lot easier if we have the vision, the goals in front of us. That's one thing I like, I was talking to my team earlier today about OKRs can be pushed down or rolled out from the top, of course, because they're the ones with the goals and the vision, but boy, it's an enablement for people then to figure out how to do the things they need to do to get there. And without that, we're rid of a struggle. So... whether I'm showing up as a kind of leader. So now what I'm left with, there's not a vision to motivate and guide my people and support them as a servant leader to get there. Now we're just back down to tasks. And I think those tasks can come down to like authoritarian, I just need you to do this, take out, take care of that problem, fix this, put out that fire. And that's one, you gotta make sure they do it and do it right. Cause it's at that level, there's not a lot of space for creativity and freedom. And we're not building anything big or necessarily. And projects can even kind of break down into that. So I'm glad you're bringing that up on the leadership styles. We don't have to always show up and be domineering. I think I want to be the kind of leader that is more about we than I and you. pulling something together and coaching up, but without the vision guidance, that might be an opportunity. Whatever department people are in, you can always have that conversation. Or even for the people themselves, again, you can always work on that. But those leadership styles, I think, fold in really nicely, say, do we have a vision and goal to catalyze people towards? Or am I just left with, you know, compliance, task type, manager, I just got to make sure people doing the right thing and complete things when I told them they need to all that, like the old school way. I think there's still probably a lot of that. Brian (26:35) Yeah. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, I completely understand from a leader, from a manager perspective, there are some basic kind of things that I think we have responsibility for. If you have an employee, let's say, that's stealing from the company or something, you're not going to just approach that as, hey, well, I'm not going to push them about stealing. I'm just going to try to clear the obstacles from Scott (26:58) Ask them how they feel about the stealing. Brian (27:00) Right, right, right. mean, don't anyone listen to this and think that we're saying that there's not that basic responsibility. I think that that is still part of being that leader and being a manager in some way, or form. I used to have a manager and for a while I sold shirts outside of Phantom of the Opera as part of the merchandise career there for that. And my boss there had this philosophy style of just, hey, you do your job. And, we're friends. We're the time in between, we just hang out and have fun. But if you're not doing your job, then we have to have a conversation. And I think that's kind of the basis there is like, don't, don't put me in that position as the manager. It's not, you know, you're not respectful of me when that's the case. and sometimes that, that, that occurs and you know, sometimes people have to be fired and all those other kinds of things. I get that. but that's, I think you can. You know, I remember one specific person that I had to fire at one point that, you know, it was, I felt after the, the event that it was actually the kindest thing I could have done to that person because they needed that, that to happen to them. Believe me, I know it's not good to get fired. I understand that, but this person had enough going on in their life that they needed that kick to do something else because they were not going into a good place. And, I just think that sometimes that's. Scott (28:03) you Brian (28:16) That's the kindest thing to do. Scott (28:18) my goodness, my first boss that pulled me into his office to say my performance wasn't adequate. He was just, and he, promise you, he probably said it just the way I'm saying it to you. I thought I was gonna die. But it was, I really did. just like, my heart's, you my throat and mouth totally dry. But it was the best thing I did, because I went back and like. Brian (28:27) Yeah. Scott (28:37) Yeah, why the heck am I not getting as much done as everyone else? Because I literally was just like an office clerk typing in stuff and word. There's no real complexity to that. But it was what I would, because then I started paying attention. I never had to get talked to again like that. Thank goodness. But boy, was like you said, kind of thing you could have done. And again, I thought I was going to die. I didn't die. I needed to hear that feedback and then fix it. You mentioned something that also makes you think of what Google's research had found about that you need to know their best teams are ones that include the they know they have dependable team members. So the managers gotta say, look, if there's an issue on someone your team is not delivering when you need them to, then yeah, I need to step and help. That should be to be fixed. Google's saying the team members need that, but they also need meaning and impact, that their work makes a difference. Their work is bigger than it just has. So I think that's that nice combination of, I will step aside and address this assertively until that's not okay. that we got to perform this way. At the same time, I'm casting a vision about how this has impact bigger than just this team and you're part of something bigger than you show up in your code or your test or whatever. So I like that situational leadership that's going across. It's kind of reflected in their research as well. I'm glad you brought up that story. Thank you for management. Brian (29:46) Yeah, so I So I think I think it's uh, you know if I were to try to sum that I just I think You know when I'm asked a question, can you be nice or do nice guys finish last? I I don't think so. I mean, I don't think that you're gonna finish last just because you're being nice Depending on how you define nice You know, you can't you you have to be honest you have to be you know, entering those relationships in a healthy way. But that's not being not nice. That's that's just showing up and and giving your best to the job, I think. And if you do that in a respectful way and in a kind way, I think that makes you a nice person. And I don't think that person necessarily is going to finish last for those reasons. At least that's my opinion. Scott (30:25) Yeah. Well, I like that. And again, on your chart, I like the fact that main thing is be assertive. You have an opinion. Reminds you of the JavaScript, right? Assert. You're just saying it. Just saying it needs to be said. And some people might edit themselves to say, well, who am I? And I remember reading somewhere about, look, you have value in what you say because you exist. It doesn't have to be that you worked there for five years and you've got Brian (30:54) Yeah. Scott (30:57) you've written books, technical books, it could be that you're a thinking human being who is smart and knows stuff and has opinions. That's why we share what we share and not to edit ourselves out of that saying I shouldn't assert myself because of X or Y. anyways, a good conversation for the beginning of the year. And I like what you're rounding out that nice guys don't finish last. Maybe there's another word and maybe also there's a balance for these guys and girls as well. Brian (31:23) Yeah, I agree. Well, Scott, thanks for coming on. I appreciate you making the time and it's always great to have you on the show. Scott (31:30) My pleasure. lot of fun. Thanks, Brian.

Missed some episodes this year? Don’t worry—Brian’s got you covered with a highlight reel of 2024’s most memorable moments, featuring game-changing insights from Agile thought leaders and innovators. Tune in to catch up, reflect, and set your sights on a stellar 2025! Overview In this special year-end episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian takes us on a trip down memory lane, sharing highlights from some of the most impactful conversations of the year. Featuring insights from Agile legends like Mike Cohn, Clinton Keith, Heather McGowan, and more, this curated selection is packed with golden nuggets that you can revisit or discover for the first time. Whether you missed an episode or want to relive the best moments, this recap is a perfect way to close out 2024 and prepare for what’s ahead. References and resources mentioned in the show: #79 Navigating Agile Trends and Challenges in 2024 with Lance Dacy #86 Revisiting User Stories with Mike Cohn #90 Mastering Agile Coaching with Cherie Silas #93 The Rise of Human Skills and Agile Acumen with Evan Leybourn #100 Navigating the Future of Agile and Scrum with Lance Dacy & Scott Dunn #111 Adapting to the Future of Work with Heather McGowan #120 Agile in Gaming with Clinton Keith #123 Unlocking Team Intelligence with Linda Rising Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian Milner (00:00.622) I'm Brian Milner and this is the Agile Mentors Podcast, a show about both the personal and organizational journey towards agility. My friends and I will be sharing with you what we've collectively learned from seeing thousands of companies Agile implementations, apparels and pitfalls, as well as the secrets to success. We'll share our personal in the trenches experiences so that you can apply what we've learned in a practical way in your careers. We also hope to hear and learn from you as well. If you're like us and are always in search of better ways of working together, you're in the right place. Join us, mentor, and be mentored. Let's get started. Brian Milner (00:53.288) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We are back for the final episode of 2024. Believe it or not, we have reached all the way to the end. You might be thinking, wait, there's a few more weeks left. Yeah, there's a few more weeks left, but the next release date would have been on Christmas Day itself and the one following would have been on New Year's Day. So we're gonna take two weeks off to be with our families after this episode. And we encourage you to enjoy that time, take the time with your family as well and friends, and truly wish you the best over that time period. But before we get there, we do have one more episode for you. We thought what we'd do for today's episode might be tiny bit different than normal. In fact, I don't think we've done anything like this before. What I wanted to do is, since it is the last episode of the year, is to look back over the past year and play you some portions of some of the really fantastic discussions that we had over this past year. Just pull out a handful of these to talk to you about. If they sound interesting to you, maybe you can go back and take a listen to those episodes. So let's get right into it, because I don't want to waste time setting it up any more than that. For starters, I want to go back to something that's now kind of a tradition for us, and the next one you'll hear from us after this episode will be the continuation of that. The beginning of this year in 2024, we started things off and we kicked it off with friend of the show, Lance Dacey. And that episode was really about looking forward into 2024. And for us to talk about what we maybe thought was coming and what we saw in the future, and then trying to somehow make some predictions or give some advice about how we might be better prepared for it. And one of the areas that came out in that discussion was really talking about how leadership affected an Agile transformation and Agile with the culture of an organization. So I'll play you a little clip here from Lance's discussion. One of the thoughts that he had in that episode, really talking more about how we need to go to the next level with our organizations and with the leadership in our organization. Take a listen. We've been trying to scale Scrum and Agile for a long time and we've written the practices on how to do it. Brian Milner (03:13.23) but we're not allowing the people to practice that. You know, just got through coaching. My youngest son is in fifth grade and we coach his football team. It's like, we're going to sit down and tell you during this play, here's the stance that you take to block. You're basically a robot. Do everything that we say, even if you don't understand it, because the whole scheme for that play is built on everybody doing their job exactly as prescribed. But as you evolve into professional football or high school football, they've learned so much about those mechanics. that's really fun now because they've got the IQ to respond to what's in front of them. That's agile. And that to me is what we have to start learning in organizations, is we know how to run the play at the team level, but how do we build up the people to run the play correctly in challenges when there's adaptations that need to be made? And a lot of times management and leadership is the suffocating part of that where they don't allow for that. It's always interesting to go back and look at those conversations that we have at beginning of the year. and see kind of how it played out. Were we right? Were we wrong? So if you're interested in that, check out that. That was just episode 79 was the first one that we did in 2024. Next up, I'm gonna jump to episode 86. This was one with our very own Mike Cohn. Mike had come back on because quite frankly, we've had for many years a set of user stories that were sample user stories that you could come to our website and download just as a resource for people if they wanted to see what... samples of user stories look like, try to imagine what that would look like in their particular context. So that's why we had this collection of user stories. Well, Mike went back to re-edit those recently, and then he took kind of another look at it and had forced him to kind of reconsider some things, wanted to share some thoughts about those new ideas and thoughts he had about user stories, just in re-examining ones that he had put together previously. So in this next clip, what you'll hear Mike talk about is really kind of a controversy maybe just his own controversy internally, but kind of a shift that he had over the years and really the template itself for a user story. So take a listen to this. I had a bunch of slides. I looked at them a few years ago to confirm this. I looked at them and they all said, I want to blank, right? And it was what the user wants. And sometimes it's not what the user wants. So if you look at slide decks that I create today, they all say, I. Brian Milner (05:36.866) They don't say I can, they don't say I want to, they just say I, and then you fill in the verb. For example, as user, I am required to enter a strong password. I don't want to enter a strong password. I want to type in my dog's name and let the system know it's me, right? So I am required to enter a strong password that doesn't fit with I want to or I can. I can enter a strong password? Well, that doesn't really help. I don't want to. I can enter a strong password. I can enter a weak password. Is that possible? So I do think there's problems with I can, but I leave all of that out of the template and I let the situation determine what that verb should be. Always an interesting conversation there with Mike Cohn. Very, very lucky and fortunate to have him come on usually multiple times per year. And that was just one of the times that Mike came on our show this last year, but really, really interesting stuff there about user stories. If that's something you're interested in, I encourage you to check out that. That was episode 86 with Mike Cohn on user stories. Now we're gonna jump ahead to episode 90. Episode 90, we had a friend of mine, Sheree Silas, come on. Sheree is a very authoritative, knowledgeable person on Agile coaching. In fact, she is the person that I most likely am going to point you to if you come to me and want to find out more about Agile coaching. She has some really great classes and other things that she teaches. And we had her on to talk about Agile coaching, obviously. And one of the things that came up is something that I hear sometimes in classes that Some of this coaching stuff you talk about sounds a little bit like counseling a little bit. Is there a crossover there with counseling? Is this a counseling job? So take a listen to what Shree had to say in response to that question. As an adult coach, you are not an organizational psychologist. You are not a counselor. You are not an organizational therapist or any of those things. That is not the job. The job is consulting, mentoring, training. and some coaching, helping people how to learn how to negotiate, learn how to collaborate, learn how to have good, healthy conflict. And there's helping them to get the business results they want. And it's very frustrating when you kind of hear this taking all the way to the other end of, we're just there to do woo-woo touchy feely stuff. I'm the psychologist. No, that's not your job. And you're not trained to do that. And that's part of the coaching work. Brian Milner (08:03.136) is to help them understand what they need and what they don't. And even as a professional coach, it is my job to make sure my client understands what coaching is and what it's not. And as an Agile coach, that's part of the work is to make sure the client understands what this work is and what it's not. Yeah, really good stuff there about Agile coaching. If you're interested in finding out more about that, listen to that episode. You'll hear more from Sheree on episode 90 about Agile coaching. Next up, I have a relatively new friend of mine, but one that, you know, feel like brother from another mother. Mr. Evan Layborn was on and he came on to talk about some research that his organization had done in partnership with the Scrum Alliance. And in particular, there was one component of that that I wanted to question him about because when I initially read it, it gave me a little bit of some misgivings about it. One of the things I mentioned was that traditionally we have always talked about being a T-shaped individual on a Scrum team that had a depth of experience in one area. but a breadth of experience in other areas that you just weren't an expert in. You were only really looking to be an expert in one area. But this report kind of brought to bear this idea of what they're calling a pie-shaped individual. So think about the mathematical symbol pie and how it has two lines going down. It's kind of like a T with two lines going down from it, right? And when I saw that, initially my first thought was, well, is this just organizations trying to get by with less head count? Take a listen to what Evan had to say about that. I want to be clear that when we're talking about pie-shaped individuals and companies looking for pi-shaped individuals, we're not talking about companies who are looking for one person to do two jobs. They're not looking for someone who's got two skills because they're trying to fill two roles. They're trying to fill two jobs. We're talking about one person, one job, and using multiple skill sets to do that job better. more effectively. In the technology world, we've had a word for this in the tech world for 10 years, full stack developer. A full stack developer is a pie-shaping, it's a developer with test competence and operations competence. They can deploy a DevOps environment. That full stack developer is a prime example of a pie-shaped person. It's not one person doing two jobs. It's one person doing one job with a variety of skill sets. Brian Milner (10:30.752) and doing that job better, exponentially better because of it. There's some really interesting other insights that Evan had in that episode. highly recommend that to you. That was episode 93 with Mr. Evan Layborne. Next up, well, we celebrated a milestone. We had our hundredth episode, if you can believe it or not. And we thought it would be appropriate to celebrate by having two people that we have on quite frequently on the podcast, Mr. Lance Dacey. and Mr. Scott Dunn. So we had something that we don't often have here on the show where we had multiple guests, but we had Lance and Scott on to really look back over the past 100 episodes and look ahead a little bit into what we thought might be coming. And one of the interesting kind of conversations we had there was thinking about some of the changes taking place in the workplace today. You'll hear Scott kind of start in on this with. thinking about the kind of dilemma organizations are facing with the work from home versus work from office kind of situation. And then Lance will come in and kind of relate it more to some larger agility issues as well. Take a listen. Thinking back to the time when people didn't really want to go agile because they thought it was a fad. And it didn't take but a few years, like, I could be wrong. Maybe that is a thing we need to do, right? And then everyone gets on board. But there was a lot of kicking and screaming and doubting the early years. I think we're going to see that with remote work is made like the proving ground of do you really work this way or not as a manager? you get this or not? You cannot lead and manage people currently how you are going to in the future because they were talking about how the new generation. is coming on board and they just won't tolerate certain things. And I think you hit it on the head with that Scott, that if these managers don't learn how to lead and manage with this newer generation, two or three removed from what I'm talking about, you're not going to have any employees because they will not tolerate it. They do not work that way. It was always such fun to have both those people on our podcast and it was even more fun to have them both on at the same time. So I really appreciate both Lance and Scott really helping us celebrate there. The fact that we crossed that threshold into a Brian Milner (12:38.326) our 100th episode. Next up is someone that I found really fascinating. is Miss Heather McGowan. And she was the keynote speaker at the Scrum Gathering this year in New Orleans. And she was so gracious to come on the podcast and talk with us a little bit. She had some really great insights. Just listen to what she had to say here in thinking about sort of the place of work in general as a part of our lives today. But what I think what's really happening is we've outsized what work is in our lives. So community used to consist of social interactions, religious affiliations, clubs and groups we belong to, all of those kind of, if you think of them as circles, because everything's visual to me, all those circles shrank and work became bigger. So now part of this generational change, but more and more people are looking for work to provide their purpose. work to provide most of their relationships, work to fill these. It's a little bit in terms of how we're interacting with each other that's causing illness, but it's also an outsize expectation we have around work. So now it becomes table stakes for a lot of organizations for work to be my self-expression, work to be my sense of purpose, work to be where I think about my values. And it wasn't like that a few decades ago. I heard from a couple of people after this episode, just friends of mine talking about it. I want to make sure I'm clear about something here that Heather was saying, she's not saying that we should find our values from those places. She's just saying that's kind of how society has shifted a little bit. So you can debate whether it's good or bad, whether the other circles that she mentioned had shrunk or grown or anything like that. But really that's kind of the reality we're left with is that there's a lot of people who find their belongingness from work today, as I said, whether that's a good or bad thing, you can debate. but that's certainly a reality I think we have to live with. And this was a really interesting discussion. So I highly encourage you to check that out if you want to. That was episode number 111 with Heather McGowan. Next up was someone I found really interesting as well. This was Mr. Clinton Keith. Clinton is a veteran of the gaming industry. And I know there's always some interest in that in our listeners and in the Agile community about how you really can apply some of these Agile principles and things. Brian Milner (14:55.704) to an industry that's so fast moving like the gaming industry. Well, as I said, Clint has worked in that industry for a very long time and he's seen pretty much everything there. He's worked in all different kinds of gaming companies. He's helped them to learn and apply these agile principles along the way. So I'll just share a snippet of the conversation that we had. In this clip, he's talking really about how some of these principles we talk about like, individuals and interactions over processes and tools and are we letting something like a new technology drive how we do things or is it really more about what's the value we're trying to deliver, right? And in the gaming industry, it's fun. It's delivering something that's fun. So take a listen to what he had to say about kind of one of these experiences he had about really finding the fun. The big light bulb moment was having a short deadline on showing something of value. led to people making better choices from the player's perspective, not this challenge of, what can I do with artificial intelligence over the next two years? That's part of the big challenge with these big, huge games of saying, it's like, hey, if there's not a payoff, if you can't see value, and this was an early lesson I learned working with Nintendo of Japan, the guy that made Mario and Donkey Kong, we worked with him directly, Miyamoto. You always had this thing, it's like, the fun fast, show the value of it. And it always stuck with me. When you have these short deadlines, you want to encourage the teams and the product owners is judge the game. Not what you see in the potential in two years. Judge your vision of the two years against what you're seeing every other week and adjust your expectations. Don't fall in love with your vision. Judge the game. Don't fall in love with your vision. Such great advice there, and I think it's so applicable to really industry. Don't get caught up in that word game, right? Judge the product. Think about it that way. I think sometimes, especially for us as product owners, sometimes we can look at that and say, we've got these grand visions and grand designs for our product, in two years we're gonna have this incredible product that's gonna do all these things. Well, you may not make it to two years. You may not make it to two years if you don't. Brian Milner (17:16.897) deliver a value earlier, right? If you don't capture the imagination and attention of your customers, if you don't solve a problem for them upfront, we know the big idea is gonna take longer to get to, but I think what Clinton is saying here, and it's really an important point, I think, is that that's part of what we kind of focus on as Agilist is trying to find the value and deliver it early. So just a really fascinating episode there as well with Clinton. Encourage you to check that out, especially if you have interest in the gaming industry, lots of good content there from him in episode 120. Lastly today, I'm gonna leave you with one last one that wasn't too long ago here, but we had someone that is kind of a beloved figure in the Agile community. She's often referred to as an Agile visionary. That's Ms. Linda Rising. And she came on to talk about multiple things with us, but one of the things that she talked about in our conversation, was about a research project that Google did several years back called Project Aristotle. They were trying to figure out kind of the components, what went into making a high-performing team. So just listen to what Linda has to say about what their scientific research kind of uncovered about really what goes into making a team high-performing. All these different researchers made the same mistake in the beginning. and it's the same mistake organizations make. They thought in the beginning that what makes a smart team is smart people. Wrong. Not that you don't want smart people. You can have a team of very smart people that doesn't have any of these other characteristics that is not intelligent as a group. We really have to wake up and realize, first of all, that we're doing that, that we're valuing IQ or individual intelligence, smartness, you went to this school or you got that particular SAT score. It has nothing to do with that. It's not that there's no correlation, but it's weak. It's much better to have people who have these other characteristics. I just have to say Brian Milner (19:38.444) We are so spoiled Agile mentors with some of the great people like Linda Rising that we get to hear on this podcast and learn from really as sort of a masterclass from some of the best thinkers in this industry. And I know I'm very thankful for them taking their time and thankful for people like Linda Rising coming on the show. If that dialogue that you just heard there sounds interesting, check out that episode. It was episode 123. Linda talks about a lot of lot more great stuff there in that episode. But yeah, we get so many great guests on our show and that was just a handful. It's hard to even pick out just, I think we just had eight of them there. It's hard to pick out just eight over the past year, because there were just so many. And any of the other guests on here, I hope you don't feel like you were not in the top eight or anything. This was just a sampling. I just wanted to pull some different kinds of episodes and I think there was quite a variety of guests and topics and things that we had on the show this year. It just makes me excited about thinking about what's possible in the next year. I know we're gonna be trying some new things. I've been interacting with some of you at the Agile Mentors Community and you've been talking to me about some suggestions about things that maybe we can do. And we're gonna try that. We're gonna try some new things going into the new year. So you may see some shifts from time to time of just a few experiments that we might be trying. As always, we'd love to hear your feedback on any of those things, but we're always in search of making this the most valuable use of your time. We think that the quality of the people, like you just heard, is pretty good. We're pretty happy with the people that really decide to come on the show, and we're very humbled by the fact that they choose to come on our show. I just wanna always make it the most valuable use of your time. We want this to be the most valuable Agile podcast that's out there. As always, if there's anything we can do to change that, I'll go ahead and just say that now. email us podcast at mountegoatsoftware.com. Put that at the end of every episode. Truly mean it. If there's things that you want us to experiment with or try, if there's guests you want to hear, in addition to some of these great guests you heard today, there's other people that maybe that you think would be good on the podcast, send us an email, podcast at mountegoatsoftware.com. Or if there's a topic that you want us to cover, let us know that as well. We'd be more than happy to try and put that in. In our planning, Brian Milner (22:01.666) we try to always put the listener's suggestion kind of towards the top of our backlog. It may not be the very next thing we do, but we try to make that as soon as possible. Oftentimes we have to find the right guest, but as soon as we find the right guest, we want to get that listener suggestion on as soon as possible. So thank you for those that have made suggestions in the past and keep them coming. I'll just go into a few other things then and wrap up and get you on your way. It's been fun looking back over the last year. And as I said, I'm excited about seeing where we go next year. Speaking of that, just make sure that you like and subscribe to the podcast. That way you don't miss any of these things, like any of these great episodes that you heard little snippets of here in this podcast episode. And with that, I guess that'll be a wrap for another year. So Agile Mentors, my heartfelt happy holidays to you. Whatever you celebrate this season, I truly, truly hope that you get to spend some time with your family, your friends, your loved ones. truly hope that you get some time to reflect on what you're grateful and thankful for. I hope you come back next year refreshed, ready to go. I hope that's part of your sustainable pace, that time of renewing with the people in your life that are closest to you. We look forward to seeing what happens with you in the new year. So join us back next year. We'll kick things off. We'll be back here in just a few weeks. And on the 8th of January will be our next episode that we release. And we'll have our... of annual sit down with Lance Dacey to look ahead to 2025 and see what's coming up then. So join us and hope you have a very, very happy holidays. See you next time on another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast.

Can Agile tools really teach you Agile practices, or are they just supporting players? Join Brian and Steve Spearman as they unpack the myths surrounding tools like Jira and discover why the process should always come before the tool. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian Milner and Steve Spearman debunk common myths about Agile tools, with a special focus on Jira. They stress that tools are not a replacement for Agile principles, and the process should guide the choice of tools, not the reverse. The conversation dives into how Agile tools can enhance transparency, why communication is key to effective Agile practices, and the importance of adapting tools to fit unique team workflows. References and resources mentioned in the show: Steve Spearman #43: Cultivating Agile Team Culture in a Virtual World with Richard Cheng #29: Influencing Up with Scott Dunn #71: The World of DevOps with Carlos Nunez Jira Miro Mural Trello SAFe LeSS Certified ScrumMaster® Training and Scrum Certification Certified Scrum Product Owner® Training Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Steve Spearman is a Certified Scrum Trainer® and Agile coach, passionate about helping teams thrive, drive business improvements, and master the art of managing change. With expertise in Agile training, scaled Agile, and leadership, Steve empowers organizations to navigate their Agile journeys smoothly and effectively. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We're back for another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I'm with you as always, Brian Milner. And today I have a very good friend of mine, a mentor of mine, Mr. Steve Spearman is with me. Welcome to the podcast, Steve. Steve (00:14) Thank you, Brian. It's great to be here with you. Nice to see you. Brian (00:17) Nice to see you as well. Yeah, Steve helped me out when I was trying to become a CST and I got to learn a lot from him, watching him teach his classes. So he's a pro. He's a CST, he's a coach and trainer and if you're interested, I recommend his classes. I think he's an excellent trainer and would have no hesitation sending anyone to one of Steve's classes. We wanted to have Steve on because we had this topic that got, actually, this is a listener suggestion. So we're always happy to take listener suggestions. And this is one that one of you sent in saying that you wanted us to kind of dive into and discuss a little bit about myths that are out there about Agile tools. So Steve, what does that mean to you? are some of the, is there a main kind of myth that you? you've heard more often than others about Agile tools. Steve (01:16) I think, Brian, the one we hear all the time, right, is this one that essentially Jira is Agile, right? And we're like, well, Jira is a very popular tool for people to use with Agile. It's might or might not be like most of us who do this. That may not be our favorite, honestly, but it is very popular for some pretty good reasons. So that's, I think, the most common one. And then just the idea that somehow it gets to the confusion people have about being a methodology and stuff, right? That essentially, if you just would implement the tool, then you'd be doing Scrum well, right? And that would be the important thing when in fact, I think most of our recommendations would be a little bit the opposite of that, right? Which is to come up with your own approach to doing things in Scrum and then maybe figure out a tool that helps you with that. Brian (02:06) Yeah, I agree. I've heard that quite often. And I've encountered organizations in my career where I'll ask them if they're Agile or if they are familiar with or no Agile. yeah, we have JIRA. OK, well, not quite what I was asking, but I appreciate the sentiment. But yeah, I mean, I agree. There's probably some mixed reviews on that as a tool. Steve (02:24) Yeah. Brian (02:36) I mean, personally, I'll say I've used it to run, you know, Agile organizations before. I'm not a hater of it. I think it's fine. I think it works. I mean, I don't know what your opinion here is, Steve, but people often ask me if there's a tool I recommend to kind of run projects and. You know, my standard answer is there's not one that I think is better and outshines all the rest. I think they all have their strengths and weaknesses and you just kind of have to tweak and adjust them to make them match, you know, your process. But that's the key, right? Is that process over the tool. Steve (03:17) Yeah. I've, you know, Jira I think is popular for a lot of reasons. One is, usually it's about half the per seat cost of a lot of the other ones. And so that for a lot of companies right there, that's that's a pretty big factor thing. I liked about it. Maybe similar to your experience, Brian was that if you're a little bit more of a techie, it's pretty programmable. You can go in and you could tweak it and you can make it do all kinds of things. And so that's maybe it's strength and it's weakness that it takes a little more investment, but you can do quite a bit with. Brian (03:47) Yeah, I agree. It is pretty flexible. The main thing I try to tell people who use it and are asking about, this going to be viable? Will it work for our purposes? The main thing I think they have to understand is the history of it. The Jira is really a bug tracking software. Well, let me be clear. It was created as a bug tracking software, right? Right. Steve (04:12) Yeah, ticketing system in general, yeah. Brian (04:15) Right, a ticket system. And when you know that, and then you get into the nomenclature and you look at the layout of how everything is within it, that makes sense. can see, cause you know, like the standard thing there is an issue, right? There's different issue types, but the standard thing is an issue. Well, that's because it was meant to handle support issues. Steve (04:35) Yeah. And also the, you know, we commonly use the word tasks, of course, in Scrum, not an official thing, but a very common thing we talk about. And Jira speak is subtasks. And that's just history again, of, know, where it came from. And, you know, a long, long time ago, you had to have a plugin to Jira to do Agile. It was originally called, I believe, Grasshopper many, many years ago. And then they ended up just calling it like Jira Agile for a very long time. And then as... Brian (04:57) Yep. Steve (05:04) it became a bigger and bigger piece of their market, they just kind of wrapped it all up in JIRA now, I think. Brian (05:09) Yeah, we both been around long enough to have been part of those days. So I remember those very well. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think JIRA will do a fine job for you if that's what you're with. wouldn't, you some organizations using it, I wouldn't say, by all means stop and use something else. I think you can make it work. I think you just have to look at it and say, all right, I understand this is based on this. So now I just need to configure it and adapt it. really for the process we want to do. And I know from my standpoint, I've used it multiple times where when you configure it the right way, it will handle things the way that you, at least from my perspective, the way I usually think is the right way to implement it with a team or an organization. So it works. I can make it work. It just takes some tweaking. I guess for mine, but yeah, it's not Agile. It's not being Agile just because you're using Jira. Steve (06:11) Yeah, and it's kind of the good and the bad thing about tools. think people like them because, you know, I can assign people tickets and things like that, you know, and so like, you know, people, it's clear who's got things and stuff. That's also a weakness though, too, because it, you might say, all I have to do is assign it in the tool and I don't have to talk to you now. I just say, look, you, I signed you this ticket or something. And that's not great from my perspective. And then the other one is that when you, when you, change states and things in the tool. That lets everybody know where things are, and that's good, and it gives you tons of reports and things, and people like those. But it's also less visual than a lot of us are, which back in the day, we liked sticky notes on a board. I that was the thing. That was the thing. And so what I'm leaning toward myself a little more these days is tools like Muro and Mural and so forth that are very visual, and they're often sticky note-based kind of things. Brian (06:55) Yeah. Steve (07:09) And that allows you to do a lot of the stuff we used to do physically, but they don't have the same reporting capabilities. And so that's where we get these trade-offs that I think we're going to see with these tools. Brian (07:22) Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm the same way. And in fact, you know, when I said that earlier, someone asked me what my favorite tool is, you know, I said, my default answer is usually I don't have a favorite, but, if they push me, what I'll tell them is my favorite is just no cards or post-it notes, you know, like that's really, that's really what I, I have found works best. But, yeah, something like Miro or mural, I think is a, is a great, kind of virtual replacement for that. Cause it's just so open. and you can configure it however you want. It's not going to pull a report for you. You have to understand that. But it is the equivalent of having a virtual wipe. Steve (08:05) Exactly. And that's just, it's kind of a halfway physical feeling thing for our virtual world, which I think is helpful. Another interesting thing that I haven't played with a lot myself is that I know now in Miro, a sticky note in Miro can now be tied directly to a ticket in Jira. And so effectively you could have like the backend framework of Jira with a pretty front end on top of it or something is kind of how that looks like to me. So Brian (08:23) wow. Steve (08:32) I think that's got some promise maybe to give us both that physical thing that some of us miss while still having that reporting structure that a lot of our companies kind of want. Brian (08:41) Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that speaks to what you were saying earlier about that it's highly configurable. can make it do a lot of things. You just have to get into the guts of it a little bit. Steve (08:52) You know, another thing about the tool market here, know, Brian, I was just looking this up, not like I knew this, but apparently it's a $5 billion market this year, Agile tool, and it is projected to go up to 13 in the next 10 or 12 years. So it's serious money. And this is why there are so many players now, right? I mean, the number of tools out there now is just, I've lost track of them. I know it's easily 20 plus tools out there. Now there are... Brian (08:57) Haha. Steve (09:19) Certainly the most common ones that we think about, Jira is probably number one. Asana comes up a lot. Rally is a long time one that comes up quite a bit. Interestingly, one of our biggest ones from years ago that did such great reporting out on the network for us and great Agile materials was version one. It was a super, super popular one. Brian (09:43) Yeah. Steve (09:45) And when you look now, they are a fairly small player percentage-wise in the market. So there's been a lot of shifting here. And of course, Microsoft shops tend to go toward Microsoft tools. And so there's that factor that goes on here, too. So it's not trivial to figure out which tool you would want to use here. Brian (10:02) Yeah, that often drives a lot of even discussion in the classes, I know, from people who say, what do you, you know, they'll bring up a term like feature and say, what's, how does Scrum define? Well, Scrum doesn't define what a feature is, you know, like that's, that's a term that comes from your tool. And, know, that your tool might have a definition for it, but you know, Scrum doesn't. So, yeah. Steve (10:23) One of the challenges I think is also that because scaled Agile has become such a big factor these days, almost all the tools have adopted their terminology. so terms like epics and features and things, most of these come from scaled Agile. And if you're doing scaled Agile, that's great, right? If you're not, it can be a little confusing. So for example, I think it was, Mike Cohn maybe, who said that epic, he famously defined as being a story too big to fit into a script. That was sort of the definition of an epic. And now in most of the tools, an epic is something giant that you have a handful of in three months or something. So yeah, there is some terminology confusion out there now as well. Brian (11:16) Yeah, which may have all come from just the tools. You hit on something a little bit earlier that I had as one of my kind of common myths here around tools. And that was that these Agile tools replace the need for just the typical communication that we have. Because as you said, I can assign something to someone else. that way, I don't have to talk to them. I just put it in their queue. And it's there. And I think that's a huge myth here with the Agile tools is, you know, my, my, my goal with any kind of tool, whether it's a software tool or whether it's a, a template or something that I'm using for a specific thing, like story mapping or whatever, my, my goal for any of those things is that it drives conversation, right? That it is an encourager of conversation, not that it is something that takes away from or detracts. from conversation and communication. So I think that's a big myth sometimes is that people, even if it's unspoken, right, there's just sort of with some people an assumption that because the tool communicates and because the tool can communicate between people, I don't have to actually talk to anyone. And that's that couldn't be further from the truth to do Scrum well. Steve (12:33) I think it gets us to another subtle thing in the scrum that you know scrum that could say more clearly maybe than it does. But that is shown as a good pattern in our pattern site, you know, the one called scrumplop.org. The idea that we should swarm as teams, you know, is something that I think a lot of us feel is a really important concept. And swarming is this kind of strange idea that says you know, don't give everybody their own work item and then just say disappear, go do it, you know, good luck. Instead, we try to work more closely like teams on the same items, divided up, work together closely. And this of course involves a lot of communication, a lot of needing to talk to each other. And so sometimes people say, well, can we just send out a Slack message or something, you know, every now and then and say, hey, you know, I'm done with mine. You can, but I think it's sort of missing the the really cool back and forth of a true swarming culture where it's like, hey, is anybody ready to pick up a piece of code and run the testing on this one? I'm gonna move on to the next one. Swarming was this idea of doing things in short cycles and gets into issues of test-driven development and things like this. so none of the tools really help you with that concept at all. And they may even hurt you with it little bit, in my opinion. Brian (13:49) Yeah, absolutely agree. And I'm absolutely on board with you. I think that's such a vital component of it. I tell people in classes, you know, I know sometimes people get a little frustrated with sports analogies, but I tell them, you know, Scrum is a sports analogy at its core. You know, it's a rugby thing. the other thing I kind of think about is if you've ever gone to see, and I know lots of us have done this in our life, but you've ever seen a kid sport kind of team sport. If you ever stand on the sidelines of a kid's soccer or most of you out there, most of the world would say football. But you know, if you ever stand on a side of a field like that, what the coaches are constantly yelling at the kids is talk to each other, right? Communicate, talk to each other. And they recognize, you you recognize in that kind of a team sport how important it is to, you know, call for the ball or or just let people know where you are or where you're going. And that same thing is what we want with our Scrum teams. We want people to be able to just constantly talk to each other. So you're right. I think sometimes the tool might actually get in the way of that communication and just could create some communication problems. Which tool are we talking on? Which tool do I look for for that kind of a conversation or whatever? And it just can get lost in the shuffle sometimes. Steve (15:13) You know, the rugby analogy is such a core one for us, but it's getting to be kind of old history now because the whole rugby analogy came out of this original lean paper, right? Long, long time ago. And the reason they chose rugby, you know, is one of the reasons they chose rugby. Rugby is such an interactive thing. So unlike American football where, you know, you run down the field and you can, you know, you can only throw the ball once and then you run and try not to get tackled. In rugby, you throw the ball back and forth constantly. Continuous interaction and basically the guys from Toyota said look we got to learn to treat our teams like rugby teams When they're on the field don't be on the sideline yelling throw it to Brian You know let them figure it out themselves, and that's the whole concept of a self-managing team Which you know is a really big concept for us in scrum and one that a lot of companies struggle with Brian (15:54) You By the way, if there was anything being yelled with my name on it from the sideline, would not be throw it to Brian. It would be don't throw it to Brian. That would be the response. Yeah, absolutely agree. What else, Steve? What other kind of myths have you heard or do you commonly hear about Agile tools? Steve (16:24) I think one of them is the idea that there is a right tool because there are real pros and cons to all the tools and some of them are much more advanced than others and yet some of them are a lot more expensive than others. Some of them are tuned for people who work in Microsoft shops. Some of them are tied to particular tools like GitHub or something like that. So figuring out the right tool is a non-trivial exercise, I guess is what I would say. And especially if you're going to wedge yourself to a tool, I think doing some prototyping, some research. The good news is the vast majority of them have free versions. You can go out and try. I often get asked things like, are you going to teach us Jira in this class or something? And the answer is no. No, I'm not. It's just one of 20 plus tools. But the other thing is that The good news is tools are a lot simpler than Scrum and Agile are. Scrum and Agile are tricky, they're subtle, they're hard to understand. They're a lot about humans and interactions and patterns and these tricky things. Tools are relatively straightforward and there are free videos on how to use Jira out there. There's a public version of it you can go get and it's true for the others too. So anybody who's really looking for a tool, that'd be my recommendation. Go out and... Find a few of popular ones, go check them out, get a free version, watch some videos. I don't think you'll probably find you a class for that. Brian (17:54) Yeah, I agree. I mean, and if you do, know, you know, again, don't want to make this sound like we're only talking about Jira, but I know for things like that, I've seen, you know, meetup groups that are dedicated to those purposes that you can find on like meetup.com or other things where you can, you know, maybe go once a month or so and learn something about it for free. So there's lots of stuff like that that's out there. But yeah, I absolutely agree that, you know, As I said, I don't recommend one specific tool. And I think the thing that's kind of really important there when you're selecting a tool is to know what your process is first. Don't get the tool to set your process, find what your process should be, and then find the tool that's going to fit with that. It's the whole individuals and interactions over processes and tools. We don't want the tool to drive what we do. And unfortunately, I've been a part of several organizations where, hey, we use this tool and the tool only works this way. So that's the way we work, whether it's right or wrong for us. And that's just a terrible way going about it. Steve (19:03) Yeah. And unfortunately, most of the tools do force you to some degree into their approach, right? Because there is a struggle, I'm sure, for toolmakers between you could make it completely general, like here's some sticky notes, just go do whatever with them, you know, which is kind of what you do with a Miro or a Miro board. But most of them have tried to make it more, you know, you do this and then you do this and then you do this and it kind of leads you through it. And that seems like it would be helpful, right? But at the same time, it means they've already decided that the right sequence is to do this and to do this and to do this. And so just got to watch out for when is the tool prescribing your approach and when is it there to facilitate your approach. Brian (19:50) Yeah, I agree. I'll tell you another one that I've heard quite often that I always kind of makes the hair on my spine kind of stand on end is when people seem to take this approach that the Agile tool itself is going to teach them how to become Agile. You know, it's kind of akin to the idea of because we have Jira, we're Agile or some, you know, fill in the blank or whatever tool it is that you would be using. But yeah, I've seen different teams or organizations that take that approach of, well, we're buying this software. And so we'll learn by using this software how to be Agile because it's an Agile tool. It's an Agile software. So everything we need will just be, we'll come by osmosis because we have this tool in place. yeah, I found that to be just a terrible approach. If you don't have some kind of a some guide, right? If you don't have somebody to guide you through that in any way, shape or form, then you're lost in the wilderness. You just don't have anyone to help you find your way. And the fact that you have a tool that could be useful doesn't mean it's going to teach you how to be useful, right? You have to know, knowing Agile is not knowing the tool. Steve (21:11) It's like, imagine going to a Ferrari dealer and deciding you're going to buy a Ferrari. And you've driven a Honda Civic, so you feel pretty comfortable with driving. And they give you a 10-minute overview of the dashboard of the Ferrari that you just purchased. And they say, I hear you're planning on racing professionally next month. Good luck with that. Brian (21:17) Right. Steve (21:37) And because I can sort of drive the car, I can therefore win races, you know, at the, no, right? No. So now we both are going to be a little biased here as trainers, obviously, but I think we pretty strongly feel like without somebody to help guide you through the subtleties of things like Scrum and Agile thinking, you may let the tools dictate and that's not the intent at all. It should be your team comes up with what makes your team be amazing. Brian (21:48) Right. Steve (22:05) And we own our own processes in Scrum, right? That's a key concept is that Scrum tries not to dictate processes and it wants you to continually evolve them. And so even the thinking that says there's a right way to do it is actually incorrect Agile thinking. so, yeah, tools are not gonna be a lot of Brian (22:24) Yeah, I agree. We might be a little biased because of what we do, but you know, I like your analogy. I'll give you another one. if you are just because you buy a parachute doesn't mean you know how to skydive, right? And no one would would buy a parachute and think, I know everything. Just I'll just use it and I'll learn how to do it because I'll jump out the plane and you know, I'll learn how to skydive. Well, no, you go through training. figure it out, you probably do a lot of tests and things, so that by the time you get up there, you know exactly what you're doing. you've gone through all the safety checks and all those other kind of things. Nobody would see those things as being synonymous, but somehow we do that in the Agile community sometimes, as we see the tool as synonymous with knowing Agile. Steve (23:12) It's a really good example, though I like the parachute. I have never parachuted because I find it terrifying. But if you were going to be a skydiver, this is an area where there is a high cost of failure. It's like one of these things where a certain kind of failure you can only do once because you won't have a second opportunity. And so one of the things that is kind of an integral idea in Agile thinking is that we like to make Brian (23:18) Neither have I. You Steve (23:41) experimentation and failure inexpensive. And so one of the whole concepts of why we often encourage things like short sprints and scrum is the idea that we want you to feel free to experiment with your processes and to make mistakes. And I'm sure many of you out there have heard the fail fast thing we say all the time, right? And all of this comes out of this mindset of making failure affordable and learning part of the culture. And so all of that is very different than any of these kind of instruction-based follow a tool sheet, follow a standard methodology of Agile or something. None of that is really the right thinking according to the way the Agile Scrum people see the world. Brian (24:26) Yeah, I agree. Any others that have crossed your path that you would call out? Steve (24:33) You know, it's really hard to avoid the thousand pound gorilla here, which is safe, because safe has so dictated the tools and things that you just have to think through that. I don't want to get us off into scaling, because that's obviously another very large conversation of its own. I have come to think of safe this way. that scaled Agile is as Agile as many large companies can tolerate. Which is to say, it's not my favorite, but it is very prevalent out there. And so, you know, in some cases, you're not going to have a choice, right? Your company will have dictated a thing, whether it's safe or whether it's whatever it is. And just be aware that that decision is also reasonably tightly tied to these tools and things because... You know, you can get a really nice lightweight tool like say Trello, which is, you know, even free sometimes still. And that can be perfectly acceptable in, you know, nice small scrum team environments. But if you're going to do, you know, giant, you know, release train planning exercises, and you want the ability to put all this stuff into tools, then that will constrain you to a certain class of tools. Now it's a lot of them these days, but just be aware that how you choose to approach this and how heavy of a method you use. will also impact your tool choices. Brian (26:00) Yeah, I agree. I don't want to get, I know we're not going to dive off into the pros and cons of safe, but the kind of picture in my head that I always think about with safe is it's kind of like one of those Swiss Army knives that has a million different blades and attachments and things in there. It's designed to solve any possible problem. that you could encounter in that arena. you know, just like when you use a Swiss Army knife, you don't open all of them up and say, all right, well, I got to try to use them all at once. You find the one that you need and you use that one. So I don't think it's a problem to have the choice to use these various things. And when I've talked to really, you know, lifelong, safe trainers that really are successful with this, I find a similar attitude from them that it's not intended for you to have to implement every component. It's intended for you to find the things that fix the problems that you're encountering and then implement those things. And if you start to encounter other new problems, well, there's other parts of the framework that you can implement then that will help solve those issues for you. And I think that's one of the mistakes people make with SAFe sometimes is that they just You know, they take the whole, it's all or nothing. And while Scrum does say, hey, you have to implement all of this or you don't get the benefits of it, SAFe, I don't believe says that. At least I haven't heard trainers say that who teach it. So, yeah, yeah. Steve (27:43) It's more like a smorgasbord effectively, right? know, if you know different choices and maybe it's worth saying a word about why that is compared to because Scrum tries so hard to be a minimalist framework that it's sort of like saying, you know, I could choose not to eat vegetables and you know, that could be a good choice for me and the answer is no, that's not a good choice for you it turns out. You know, so Scrum, because it tries to tell you so little, it's basically telling you the stuff that is basically essential. You you just can't get along without it. So it's a super minimalist framework. Some of you, I'm sure, are familiar with what happened in the last version of the Scrum Guide, where, you know, typically, like with SAFe, when they add a new one, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger over time, right? And they add more and more details. And that's what people love about SAFe, right? You can go open up a page. and click on a keyword and open up another massive page of exactly how to do everything. And Scrum has taken the exact opposite philosophy to make it the most minimal framework they could. And they actually went from 18 pages to 13 pages in the last version of the Scrum Guide, taking all of the advice out, basically. And so we're just looking at two very different philosophies here. So Scrum is a minimalist framework. SAFe is the... I guess the Swiss army knife, if you will. I would like to say one comment about a Swiss army knife. I used to carry those many years ago, but essentially you have every tool in them and none of them are great, right? So every one of them is basically a tuned down version of the tool. So yeah, there's a corkscrew in there. It's not a very good corkscrew. And yes, there's a screwdriver in there. It's not a very good screwdriver. Brian (29:06) Ha ha ha. Steve (29:29) So I think sometimes over time we start to learn that you should have the right tool for the right job and not try to get by with the Swiss Army. Brian (29:38) Yeah, always whenever I saw, you know, whenever I would see a Swiss Army knife that would have the the kind of saw component of it, I always think, you know, it's it's it's it's, you know, two inches, three inches long. What kind of tree am I going to saw through? Steve (29:53) you have to be desperate, right? This would be like, I'm cutting my parachute cord or something, but. Brian (29:57) Right, exactly. Exactly. Well, I'll throw one more and then we'll we can call this. But there's one that I've heard that I just thought was I don't hear this as often, but I have started to hear it more. And that's just sort of it's kind of an attitude. It's this attitude of, hey, we're having a problem with and seems specifically around transparency. Right. The team is not being transparent. We're not having much transparency into how the work is going on. And so sometimes I've heard people kind of take this attitude of, well, you know, we're gonna implement this tool. And so by default, we're gonna increase our transparency, because now we're using this tool. And I would caution people on that as well, say that that's not true at all. You know, it's the old phrase we used in computers, you know, way, way back when I was in elementary school was garbage in garbage out. And I think that applies to our tools as well, you know. We can get greater transparency through a tool, but it takes the right input. It takes the right effort. And you could still have the attitude of, I'm going to obscure the way that the work is really happening and do that through any tool. So the tool itself, I don't think it's going to do that. The tool could help you with it, but you have to deliberately seek that out. Steve (31:21) You know, I, it's such a mindset for me, this concept of things like transparency and how that relates to how we work as a team and swarming concepts and all these things kind of come together to make scrum a really an effective thing. And the problem sometimes is when you try to force things, it has the opposite effect. I'm, don't disagree with the scrum authors very often, but I very much do with what they did with the daily scrum, you know, and the daily scrum. used to have the three questions, And the three questions, you know, what did you do yesterday? What am I going to do today? You know, do I have any impediments? And then they made it longer. They added more words to it to try to clarify things, which was just more structure effectively. And then finally, in the last version of the Scrum Guide, they threw out the three questions. And I was really happy to see those go. because they sounded like a status report. And so guess what was happening to most organizations? They think of the Daily Scrum as a status report, which developers hate. And now as soon as there's this status call, then the managers are talking and they say, hey, did you hear there's a daily status call we can come to? And now they start coming to another meeting. And now you have completely destroyed the concept of this really simple meeting, which was effectively just to let team members coordinate their plans for the day. It's kind of a swarming based thing. And so it makes beautiful sense once you understand that, but it's misunderstood 90 % of the time because it just sounded like status. Brian (32:55) Now, but hey, pass the plate, because I'm a member of that church. I agree with you on that wholeheartedly. I've always said that, you know, I think it's just one of the things I try to tell people to come through classes. Hey, Scrum Masters, if you don't remember anything else about these events, right? If you forget, you know, six months from now, what the exact time box is on something, I'm not as concerned with that. Make sure you understand the purpose of each one. Make sure that you embed that and print that in your memory. I know what each of these meetings is there for, why we are meeting in that situation. And if you know that, then I don't care about the format. The format will flow from that, but we're accomplishing this purpose and we're gonna figure out the best way to do it. Steve (33:42) Yep, and we can even take that back to the tools and say, can make most tools work, right? As long as you get the freedom to use it as you, as a team, see fit. You know, one of the guys, the guy who created the kind of the opposite end of the spectrum scaling approach, Craig Larmann with LESS, he says, why do you need more than just a shared Google Doc to do everything? You know, why couldn't you just have your, you know, all your stuff up there in a spreadsheet and, know, good enough for what you needed to have visible and you can generate a few reports and maybe that's all you need and maybe you don't need a heavy tool. that, you know, so there's a spectrum of possibilities. Brian (34:21) Yeah, I mean, when teams started out, there weren't any tools, and that's what everyone was using, was things like that. So, yes, it's entirely possible. Very cheap. And you don't have to be a big organization. You don't have to have a massive budget for software. can use the tools available to you and get by very well. Well, this has been great. I really appreciate you taking the time, Steve. I love this discussion, and I hope that... Steve (34:43) Absolutely. Brian (34:51) For our listener who suggested this, that we kind of hit the nail on the head and gave you what you were hoping for in this one. But yeah, when it comes to Agile tools, Agile should drive the tool, not the other way around. The tool shouldn't drive how you do Agile. And I think that's kind of where I would sum it up. Any last thoughts? Steve (35:10) So if I was going to quote Craig Larvin one more time here, less is more sometimes. And so the concept of minimalism and being more about how you and your team work together and how your meetings work and how you respect each other and how you learn how to work effectively together, way more important than your tools. ideally, let your approaches dictate the tool. Try not to let the tool dictate your approaches. Brian (35:40) Awesome, yeah, completely agree. If you've been listening to Steve and feel like, I really clicked with that guy, I really resonate with the ways he's speaking on this stuff, I encourage you check out his course schedule. You can find that at the Scrum Alliance website and see what courses he's teaching and sign up for one. Because as I said, Steve's an excellent instructor. So Steve, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Steve (36:04) Thanks, Brian. It's been a pleasure to be here with you.

Is Agile really dead, or are we just doing it wrong? Tune in as Brian and Scott dive deep into the controversies and misconceptions surrounding Agile practices and what it really takes to make Agile work in today’s organizations. Overview In this episode, Brian and Agile Mentors Podcast regular, Scott Dunn, tackle the provocative question: "Is Agile Dead?" sparked by recent claims of Agile's high failure rates. They discuss the validity of these claims, the common pitfalls of bad Agile implementations, and the importance of continuous improvement and experimentation in Agile practices. The conversation explores the shortcomings of current training approaches, the crucial role of effective coaching and leadership support, and how to overcome the widespread misconceptions about Agile. Brian and Scott emphasize the need to focus on outcomes and ongoing learning rather than getting bogged down by methodology debates and rigid terminologies. References and resources mentioned in the show: Scott Dunn #93: The Rise of Human Skills and Agile Acumen with Evan Leybourn Are Agile and Scrum Dead? By Mike Cohn Join the Agile Mentors Community Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. Welcome back for another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I'm with you as always, Brian Milner. And today, friend of the show, regular, you know him, you love him, Mr. Scott Dunn is with us. Welcome back, Scott. Scott (00:13) That's my new favorite intro ever. So thank you, Brian. Always glad to be and then glad to talk shop. So I appreciate you making me some space so that I get to work with you again. Brian (00:16) Ha ha ha. Yeah, we need like walkout music for you. know, like when the pitcher comes out to the mound, the relief pitcher or the wrestler comes out, you know, or whatever, they play the walkout music. We need walkout music. We wanted to have Scott back because there's a hot topic and this is your hot take alert because this show I'm sure is gonna be full of personal hot takes here on the subject. Scott (00:30) Yeah yeah, there you go. Brian (00:50) And that is, is Agile dead? There has been a lot of talk recently about this in the past few months. There's been a lot of blog posts written, a lot of armchair quarterbacks chiming in and trying to make sense of this. So before we dive in, Scott, I want to give a little bit of background to our listeners in case you're not aware of something that happened, where this came from, right? Because I think that there was In one sense, there's always an undercurrent. There's always people out there who are ready to say Agile's dead, right? And so they're waiting to pounce on anything that would back them up. And there was someone who was very happy to oblige about that. There was a company called Engprax, E -N -G -P -R -A -X. I couldn't find much out about them except they're a consulting company. And they put out an article that was announcing research they had done that said that 260 % higher failure rates for Agile software projects. That's what their study revealed. Yeah, 268%. So let's just start there, right? But the article is very thinly veiled in support. of another competing process, believe it or not, called Impact Engineering that is authored with a book that's just out, believe it or not, by a gentleman named Junade Ali. Now I have no idea, I have never crossed paths with this gentleman. I don't know his philosophy or his, much more about him. I did look him up on LinkedIn. He's been in the business for about 11 years. If I trace back to his first thing, it's about 11 years ago. He currently lists himself as the chief executive officer of a stealth startup. Well, I think I can remove the mask of what that stealth startup is because it is Ingeprax. So he is the head of that company. I found another article that did the research in support of his book. Scott (03:03) Hahaha Brian (03:12) announcing his new process that is a competitor, of course, to Agile. Now, there's been a lot of back and forth. He's tried to defend this and say, you know, the research is solid, but here's the thing I always say, without data, it didn't happen. If you're not showing me the actual methodology, if you're not showing me the scientific research paper behind it that says, here's the methodology of the research, here's how we conducted it, here's the... There are some details that are in the article, one of which is that the research was done over a period of about five days. So it was research over about five days. was interviewing a set of, I'm trying to scroll through and find the numbers. I think it was like 250 or so engineers from the UK and 350 from the US. It's something around those numbers. But it was interviews with engineers over a period of about five days. Scott (03:50) Wow. Brian (04:11) And so the numbers are based on these engineers' recall of what their idea of success was in projects, whether it was an Agile project or not an Agile project, by their definition of whether it was an Agile project or not. He doesn't really describe in the article what success is. So saying that it's 268 % failure, what is a failure? It doesn't really state that plainly. So again, where's the data, right? I'm not going to go on and on about the research and the fact, but I just want to give the background before we dive into it because that article is what now you will see quite a few blog posts and things crossing your desk on LinkedIn that say, wow, look, this new study says 268 % failure rate for agile projects. Well, anytime you see something like that, check the source. You have to check the source. I try to do this in any conference talk I do. I put the links to the sources. And I try to only list data that comes from scientific studies, where you can find the actual research paper and dive into it and get into the nitty gritty of it if you really want to. Otherwise, as I said, it didn't happen. He says in the article, hey, we had PhD people that looked over our work, unnamed PhD people. So you can't even question whether that person was someone legitimate who did it. Just trust him that they were legitimate. So I set that up because I don't mean to take so much time here at start of the episode, but I just wanted to set the foundation. If you weren't aware of that kind of thing or where that came from, you may not even been aware of the background of where that study came from. Scott (05:46) You Brian (06:04) And the fact that the person who kind of sponsored it is got an ulterior motive, right? They're trying to push their own methodology and they're publishing research that they collected, they are publishing, that just so happens to support their foregone conclusion that Agile's bad and their methodology is better. So, but Scott. Scott (06:31) I'm just trying. Brian (06:32) So let's get into the topic because what I really want to get into is, I'm sure you've seen people post things like this and there's been sort of this wave of things in the past year or so of people who are so quick and anxious to say Agile is dead. So what's your general impression there? What have you seen? What have you experienced and how do you respond if someone in class says, hey, is Agile dead? Scott (06:43) Mm Mm I great, great question. So for those listening, I want to just want to affirm that probably a lot of you had experiences like, well, certainly wasn't going great or we're not seeing what we thought and all those things. So part of this, Brian, is I think the ethos of why those things take off like that is I do think there's a general feeling of is this really working for us or not? That's that's fair. So I'm not going to pretend like, it's always goes great. It's, you know, be Pollyanna about that. I remember actually this year. of a CEO, a company saying, Agile absolutely does not work. We're going to go all the way back to just full waterfall. Right. That to me is kind of that harbinger of like, wow, it's built up enough for someone to say that. So a couple of thoughts I have, and I'm going to be pragmatic like you for my friends that are hearing this or maybe thinking this or people at your company are pushing back a bit, is I'm to go back and say, well, okay, let's just say that Agile is dead. So what are you going to do? Are you really going to go back to waterfall? Well, we already know that story. whole reason, for those listening, consider this, whole reason Agile took off was the option A wasn't working and very clearly wasn't working for complex projects like software. Now for this person to come and recommend XYZ, of course, not surprising for all the listeners out there. Obviously, there's a marketplace, there's business. I get it that people are going to pitch and recommend what they do my classic one in our space Brian would be because obviously you I Mike within Mountain Goat are teaching the CSM CSPO and I'll see like 350 page books of get ready for the CSM exam like right the scrum guide itself is I mean how many pages so come on Brian (08:38) You Scott (08:47) And they'll even be like, you know, misrepresentation. So clearly people are doing things in their own self interest. get that. as you as people out there, hear information, I love what you're saying is to just like look into it and really be mindful of what's their angle for some of that. But back to your question, is Agile dead? I would argue that Agile partly done or halfway is dead in the sense that that doesn't work or what I would kind of call Agile theater. Agile hand waving, spread the agile pace. So I've been doing this 18 years, I think, since becoming a Scrum Master. And I was on project delivery before that and managing IT people. So I've seen all the things that weren't working well as a developer, et cetera. And I saw the results of what I got. And I've seen plenty of stories beyond that. But what I see more and more is people who are further away from the beginnings and what they're kind of doing is implementing what's comfortable. And I would agree that doesn't work. in that sense, that Agile is dead. In a follow on the idea of and really kind of putting together realizing is for those out there that your company is the one implementing Agile, who usually gets that? Well, it's probably going to be the PMO. And I'm going to poke a little bit here, certainly for my PMO friends, but as a former PMP working within the PMO, what's the PMO responsible for? So if I go to your typical company, say, hey, we're going to go Agile. That's under the purview of who it's a, it's a, there's going to be a group that's responsible for watching over execution delivery. Who is that? It's a PMO. Think about this. The PMO is not responsible for like learning continuous improvement innovation. They're responsible primarily for, for status reporting, managing to a given date, managing resources, escalating issues, but not necessarily for improving. So they bring in Agile sense of, what do we need to do without maybe understanding it fully and really. How do we just manage this process and not, hey, we're starting off from point A, but we're going to learn and get better as we go across. It's going to stop where they feel like, I think we have a new process that implemented. Does it get the results? You know, I don't know and I don't understand how it works to fix that. So they may not be getting results is what I commonly see. I'm seeing a slew. I can tell you the last several companies just in these last few months we've worked with. We've got to fix our process is not working. Are you agile? Yes. But you look at it and they'd miss a lot of fundamentals. And so now we're kind of resetting a lot of people that are struggling with the same issues everyone's talking about. Visibility, predictability, can we deliver this by the date we gave senior management? And they're not by and large. For those who say agile is dead, one of the other options, people have put together agile manifesto had lots of ideas, lots of other approaches besides scrum, but even if just take scrum. Look, scrum is based on lean. Is lean dead? And scrum is an empirical process. Is empiricism dead? Does that not work? So I kind of come back like, what are your options? Just think about the results you're getting. Whose fault is that? And what are we even basing what we're looking at? The roots of it are all very solid. So yeah, I'm going to push back quite a bit on that, what I've seen. And maybe see some of those same. Results or lack of results for organizations Brian because I know that it doesn't always go great out there and in the marketplace is coming. Try to roll this out. Brian (12:07) Yeah, yeah, there's a, so I have a couple thoughts here. One is just in general, I think you're absolutely right that there's, know, well, just listeners, ask yourself, what percentage of Agile practices out there do you think are doing Agile the right way? Right? And I don't mean like a hundred percent. I just mean they are, they're all in on it. They're trying to do it the right way. I don't know what number you have in your head, I would say, don't know, Scott, what would you say? Scott (12:43) They're doing it right? Brian (12:45) Yeah, they're not perfect, right? But they're committed to doing it right. They're committed to doing it according to what the Agile Manifesto says, that sort of stuff. Scott (12:55) Fairly Fairly smart, right? I'm guessing, my first number that came to mind, you asked, I'd say 10%. That's my, maybe less than that. Brian (13:02) Okay. Yeah, I would bet it's a small thing, right? Now that right there, I think is something that we can talk about. Why is it that small? Right? Why is it that small? And I think that there's a discussion that's a legitimate discussion to be had about, well, maybe the structure that was put in place to spread this and train people up and get them, you know, situated to do this well. has failed. And if that's the case, that's the problem. It's not really that the methodology is bad. It's that we didn't do a good job of explaining it or training people for it. that's a separate discussion. But I think that there's a lot of bad agile out there. And I'll just put it to you this way. If you like to hike or camp or anything like that. If you are an aficionado of that stuff, right? If you occasionally go hiking or camping, I'm fairly certain that you've had some hikes or some camping trips that weren't that great, right? And you can probably recall them and think, wow, that was horrible. Well, imagine if that was your only experience, right? Imagine if that hike or that camping trip was your only experience. And you came back from that and someone said, you tried hiking or you tried camping. What did you think of hiking or camping? That sucked, it was horrible. I never wanna do that again. I don't know why these people are crazy, that do that stuff. I would never do that again. But if you really like it, you know that yeah, there could be some bad experiences, but there's some good experiences too. And if you plan a really nice hike and you've got good weather and everything else, it can be a really great experience. So to base someone's opinion on, well, my experience in one place was that it was terrible. Well, okay, come on, give it another shot, right? I mean, they're not all gonna be perfect. And if you see it in a couple of places, you'll probably understand, now I know what we were doing wrong in that other place because it's clear now, right? So that's one point here. And the other thing I wanted to say is one of the things that they talk about in their Scott (15:17) Right. Brian (15:26) 268 % failure rate article where they announced their research, is they focus a lot on that their methodology does a better job with really clearly documenting requirements before development starts. So Scott already knows where I'm going with this, right? I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding before we even begin this, because what they're saying is, Scott (15:42) boy. Brian (15:55) Yeah, one of the things Agile fails at is clearly documenting all the requirements up front. And my response as an Agile trainer is, duh. Yeah, of course, because we don't try to do that. We actually look at that from a different standpoint and say, you're fooling yourself that you can document all the requirements up front. The example I use in class is, well, We're not manufacturing, right? We don't do manufacturing work. We're not churning out the same thing over and over again. If I was doing that, I could document all the requirements upfront, because I've done it before and I know what it takes to do it. We're closer to research and development. So let me take an extreme research and development situation for you. Imagine I'm inventing the cure to a certain kind of cancer, right? And you come to me before that and say, great. Well, we funded the project to cure that certain kind of cancer. Here's the budget. you know, let's get all the requirements documented upfront before you start inventing that cure to cancer. You'd look at me, I'd look at you like you were crazy because I don't know what all the requirements are going to be before I invent this new way of solving the cancer problem, right? I have to experiment. have to try, I have leads, I have ideas about things I would try and that I think have promise, but I've got to go through trials. I've got to go through tests. And the results of those experiments will then guide where I go next. So I think there's a fundamental fallacy in just the idea of trying to judge whether Agile is successful or not about whether it can capture requirements. Scott (17:34) Yeah, right. And for those who've been around, I'm going to double down on that one, Brian, because I've seen this pushback to, hey, we've got to capture all the requirements up front. But every time I ask a company, things change. company priorities change all the time. If anything, we're suffering from just chaotic, inconsistent, random. I remember an executive once said, I love Agile. I can change my mind all the time now. He meant it. So, and even before Agile, there were statistics that showed that the majority of requirements never see the light of day or are to use. So we already know outside of Agile, it's a fool's game, the customer will know it when they see it. That's why it's complex. I think you're right. We're not doing something like manufacturing. We're trying to experiment and figure those things out. So the idea of bad Agile missing out on requirements, it feels good to say we've captured everything upfront. But I remember my first full Scrum project on my own with the whole company and the CEO saying, you know, I need to see this by October. I'm like, well, you'll see, you'll see something backed over, right? I wouldn't say that now, but this same CEO is so dead set, like, no, it needs to hit the state. He fully changed the look and feel of the whole website application we're building twice during that project. To me, it just tells me like, let's not play the game. Like I can still scope it, but let's accept it's going to change. The other part, when you say about just bad and sense of practices, there's a poll I put on my LinkedIn profile. Somebody might have seen this if you follow me on LinkedIn, but I asked. Brian (18:34) Ha Scott (19:00) You know, is the two day CSM enough to get you the results, your organization you want to see now for those who don't know CSM, obviously the standard, you know, training that people take to understand scrum from the scrum Alliance. there's certainly a lot of other courses, Brian, I know you do the advanced CSM CSP, advanced CSP. And there's more beyond that, but people by and large stop at the CSM. The percentage of it last time I checked was like 99 % of all people trained by the scrum Alliance. taking the CSM and it drops off. The percentage of people when I asked out there in the marketplace, is the CSM enough to get you the results? 95 % said no. So one, for my listeners, I'm to be a little bit of tough love on you. We ourselves might be the ones to blame for this. If we stopped our learning then, if we didn't encourage others at our org to learn and keep pressing in, you don't have the tools you need to be successful. The CSM was not all theirs. There's a slew of Equipping and training out there much less coaching and getting support. So I think there's also some miss on bad Agile. Like we never learned enough. Let's just take the basics of well, we have multiple teams. Well, but yes, the CSM doesn't cover multi team and scaling, so you got to figure that out and you're figuring out based on what you have. done it before you have valid experience and the number of companies who aren't getting coaching anymore. Now they end up just trying to figure out a methodology themselves and that's not their strength. The strength might be in -flight software for airlines. I don't know, it's not methodologies. And they're gonna take their best guess influenced by who? I'm gonna guess the PMO. And now you get this muddy version that yeah, doesn't get results. So I second that on the requirements issue and I second that just the fact that Bad Agile could be our own equipping. I do wanna add on the point about experimentation, encourage those. Brian (20:45) Yeah. Scott (20:48) The metaphor you give about camping is really great. I see a lot of out there in the world for those who are out in the scene, the whole dating scene, and you might be like, these dating apps are terrible. They don't work. Okay. I'm not going to argue they don't work depending on how you use them what's going on out there. But again, what are your options? The world's shifted and here's where we are right now. There's things we can do to do that better, but to simply throw that out, it's like, well, or dieting. Yeah, I tried that diet. It doesn't work. Dieting doesn't work. Well, Brian (20:59) You Scott (21:16) There's a mindset that goes with that. And did you follow up correctly? Did you look into the research underneath that? Even recently, I'm going through my own personal work around like sleep and health. I'm going through Peter Tia's Outlive, which is a fabulous read. But those are both like, here's some data and science, but you need to kind of hack everybody's different. Here's some ideas, try them out, see it works. Same with Scrum. Try these things out. It's not like, I did Scrum and we didn't get amazing results out of the gate. Well, you keep experimenting. It's simply empiricism. So those could be things for those listening, come back to that, look at your education level, look at options and keep learning and growing and try those things out. Cause could be, we didn't do our best to bring that or even on Mountain Good for their friends who listening who've gone through the Mountain Good courses and you have access to agile mentors. There's a community forum, there's a chance to interact, ask questions, there's lean coffee, bring your questions. How many of us actually go and take advantage of those resources? There's tons of knowledge, information, but most of us are just too busy. to get smarter and apply that. So that could be an action for people listening. What's your own next steps to grow and make sure you're doing the best agile out there that you can and you have case studies that you can reference. Could be an opportunity. Brian (22:24) Yeah, such great points. I'll build on your analogy there, or what you talked about with sleep a little bit, and thinking about how, you know, this is one of things I love about Agile, because, you know, if it was, this will maybe highlight the difference between Agile and Scrum a little bit for everyone, if you don't really understand this, right? If I were to say to you, make sure you go to bed at 10, and get up at, you know, six every day, right? You get eight hours, that's eight hours, right? You get hours of sleep, but you gotta be in bed by 10 up at six. Well, some people would hear that go, well, that's ridiculous. That doesn't fit my schedule. I work better at late at night and I'm not an early morning person. And you probably just say that's terrible. That's a terrible idea. But if I said to you, make sure you get enough sleep, right? Then you can apply that and think, okay, well, for me, enough sleep is this. And I know what that means. I know what it means when I get enough sleep. Scott (22:53) Thank you. Brian (23:23) And for me, that means I'm going to bed by 11 or 12 or whatever. Like I know when I need to be in bed and I know when I need to wake up in the morning and that's enough sleep for me. Maybe it's seven hours for me. Maybe it's nine hours for me. Right. That's the difference to me between Agile and Scrum is that Agile, and that's why I take such offense at anything that would say, it's a failure. Well, it's a principle. And if you're going to take exception to it, which one? Which principle or value are you going to call out and say, this is the one I disagree with, this is one I don't think is valid? Because it's not telling you exactly how to do it. It's not telling you what a sustainable pace is, for example. It's not saying only work 40 hours a week. It's saying everyone should work at a sustainable pace, a pace they can maintain indefinitely. And if you disagree with that, if you're going to say, well, that's a failure, Scott (24:05) Right? Mm -hmm. Brian (24:17) I don't think people should be working at a sustainable pace. They should be working at an insustainable pace. Well, I'm going to have an issue with you, right? And I'm going to say, where's your research on that? Like, where would you say that that's, you know, how could you back that up? So that's why I take, I think I'm welcome to people with different ideas, but I want to see the data. I want to see you back it up. And even, you know, something like this project, I want to say, what questions did you ask? You know, if you're just taking a poll of software engineers, how did you phrase the questions? Were they leading in how you phrase them? That kind of stuff can be very, very important and make a big impact on your numbers. So without the data, it didn't happen. Scott (25:01) Absolutely. I think that, well, and to that point, Brian, and I'm going to push a little bit. This word agile might be the most misunderstood word of the last decade or two. I guarantee you. You can ask 10 people and get 10 different versions of the answers. So like, what are we talking about? Let's take a step back and like, it's sense making to have a conversation around that. So for example, I remember this person who supposedly walked in, this is just this year, walked into the Brian (25:14) I agree. Scott (25:31) They're, you know, the head of the PMO, they've been doing agile. came from a large manufacturing company. Everyone recognized the name. Now there's other company that got brought in. Let's do this right. And, you know, has all this agile experience. And I'm actually having a conversation. We're talking about planning and predictability and how to get the teams where we need to. And I mentioned this about Velocity and she said, Velocity has nothing to do with planning. And for those who don't know, one, reach out and talk to us, because we can help you do that. The second thing is, in my mind, I didn't even know how to answer. That is the thing we use for planning is how much does your team get done, and we'll extrapolate what they're going to get done by the certain date. But I remember just feeling like, and you're saying you're walking out with all this Agile experience, and you're heading up the PMO on how we roll out Agile. Thank goodness that CTOs are like, Brian (25:56) Right. Scott (26:16) It has everything to do with planning. And I'm like, thank goodness you straightened that out because I didn't want to say anything. And I'm going to add to that at the leadership level and management level, because management statistically is going to be your biggest inhibitors to continued agility and growth. Management in terms of how we work around here, which is essentially a culture, how we do things around here. That's going to be seven of your 10 reasons you get stuck. When I've polled and asked numerous groups, how much does your leadership understand about Agile on a scale of one to 10? And the numbers I'm constantly getting back are right around 3 .5 to four on a scale of one to 10, right? Which is bad. But here's the flip side is I say, okay, how much does your leadership and management think they understand about Agile? Well, then it basically doubles, right? And even I've people say like on scale of one to 10, they think they're at 12, right? So we have groups who are large influences of how this is going and the stakeholders and what they're asking who. Brian (26:53) Yeah. Scott (27:13) not only don't understand it, but think that they do. So if you're listening to this out there and you're kind of like, yeah, I agree. Yeah, so what do we need to do about this? And again, you have a lot of options, but if you let that hang over us in terms of that's gonna be your constraints, the true agility here, what we're trying out. And we just kind of accept that, yeah, they don't know anymore. It's almost like this gallows humor, ha ha, they don't get it. Yeah, but they're the ones who are like. asking for fixed scope, fixed date, don't understand about iterating, don't understand MVP, don't understand, like show up to the demos and see what we've done to give us feedback. So those are things that undergird this problem that that lack of understanding can be pervasive and yet people think that they do. And I'll go back to another leader who said they understood Agile, but when we went through the survey feedback to help them and work through that, his comment was, I'm tired of this deadline optional culture. Deadline optional. I guarantee that people don't feel like it's optional. If anything, they're feeling a lot of pressure. But when we miss dates, how they interpret it several layers above is like, they just don't care. This is all deadline optional. So I think there's a disconnect from leadership and management side and the knowledge and even those heading up the project management office that we need to kind of check ourselves. Have they gone to training? Do they know? You'd be amazed what that can do when they get on board and really support this. It clears up a lot of stuff at the team level. Brian (28:26) Yeah. Scott (28:36) But back to what said earlier, if all you did was send a few people to the two day course and that's it, yeah, you're probably gonna struggle. Brian (28:44) Yeah, and I support what you were saying about, need to take responsibility as trainers and as the Agile community that maybe this way was not the right way of doing this. And if there's one thing I might take a little bit of exception to now from how it's described in Scrum is, we talk about Scrum Masters being change agents. And I think that may have gotten a little overblown, right? Because I think in a lot of organizations, people look at it as these people who take a two day class are ready to lead our whole company in how we're doing this. And that was never the intention, right? I think the two day class is actually okay for someone to get kicked off and plugged in and being a scrum master on a team with support, right? If that's the only person, you only have two or three scrum masters that have all taken just a two day course and... no one has really a lot of experience, then it's probably not going to do very well. But if you have some base layer scrum masters who are new, and they have some coach layers that are more experienced, even if it's just one, even if you have that one senior person who hasn't just, you wouldn't do that with anything else. There's nowhere else in your company where you'd say, let's just hire a bunch of people who have never done this before and hope that it works. Scott (30:07) you Brian (30:09) You wouldn't do that with programmers, you wouldn't do with testers. You would have some, you want to have some senior people that can help guide and mentor and make sure that it's done the right way. But for some reason, you know, companies just kind of look at it as saying, no, I'll just hire a couple of scrum masters that are brand new and that'll solve it. Scott (30:27) Woo, I mean, can you imagine getting on a plane like, by the way, everyone, welcome on board. Our pilot's never flown before. I could do that, course. And not only that, we're trying to save money around here. So he's actually going to be concurrently helping fly three other planes at the same time, like while they're doing this work. Brian (30:32) But I passed the two day class. Yeah, because most of the flight, you're not doing anything, right? You're just sitting there. So we want to make sure they're still productive so he can fly three planes at once. Scott (30:50) That's a hard one be, exactly. That's yeah, which it's, it's, people might be laughing, but it's similar. Like we're trying to get pointy to point people, things change on that flight. And I see these teams, know, scrum master spread around. I remember a company scrum master on seven teams. Nevermind organizational change agent. This poor soul can't even have the meetings run. and someone bested me like, no, I know someone's on 12 teams as the scrum master. So if management doesn't understand the value of this person, and I like what you're saying. It's a tall order organization changes. And I like the idea of like lead improvement, but we kind of cut it at the knees. had one company this year and sadly we'd helped them get started. When we came back, kind of had some back -channel conversations with people that were disgruntled on the team. So thank goodness they had a safe place to come and ask questions. But the person rolling out Agile, it was kind of knighted to help do this. And she had been through the two day training, I think, but literally as they're giving feedback on what's working, not working, she basically said like, Stop complaining. This is the way we're doing things around here. I'm here to just kind of write the playbook. I think you're the person that should be spearheading how to improve every single sprint. And you're saying, we're done talking. We're complaining. I'm trying to formalize our process here. But basically, booted them out of the working group committee that was how we implement Agile. Now, those are two of the key Agilists there. So think we missed some of that when those examples happened. So my friends are listening. expect that people don't get it, expect that they're optimizing for their own concerns. And that's fine, but we don't stop there. We have to kind of work top down bottoms up on that. And there's lots of options and case studies and stories you can see. And certainly I'll just point again to a resource. If you look at Agile Mentors, there's plenty of experts who gonna, they've been on the interviews, been recorded, take a listen to those and hear some stories, help champion this. As a side note, Brian, just gonna add this in real quick. When we talk about Agile being dead or not, I think if we lead this company, like, I totally agree with Brian Scott, especially Scott. He really is very articulate and well -spoken. I think he's probably one of the best podcast interviewees ever. And they might say something like that, but they might come back and say, I agree with Brian Scott. Agile's not dead. We're just not doing it right. So what can we do about that? We'll look back and say, how are we implementing it? Is there a plan? Are we nudging people along? Expect them to kind of play these things out, but keep in mind, It's most of this company's is a multi -year journey to get those kinds of results, but I'm not going to go back as a takeaway from listeners podcasts and tell my management or leadership, we're not doing Agile right. We should do Agile right. For those who don't already know, they don't care. They don't care that we're doing Agile right. They don't even know what it is. We already talked about their scores. They don't know anyways. I'm not going to pitch any kind of change to what we're doing in terms of Agile being right or wrong. That misses. almost every single time for me. What I will pitch is, hey, leadership, you're frustrated that we're not delivering predictably. You're frustrated we're not getting more innovation. You're frustrated our quality is not where it needs to be. Yes, and here's some things we can do to get it there. Under the covers, what we're doing is improving the way we're doing Agile for more visibility, more clarity, better tracking, all that stuff. Your Scrum Master, whoever's leading this, doggone it, they cannot be just glorified JIRA admins. That's not gonna get you there. So take it back as a thing and think about how you're taking it back to them in terms of what matters for them, what's in it for them in business value. Pitch it that way. And you'd be surprised when you're like, if that's tied to the results, I'm listening. But not this we're doing as a right or wrong. So that could be part of reason it falls on its face when we do try to address the agile being dead is how you're presenting and working with your stakeholders and leadership. Brian (34:37) Yeah, and quite frankly, I don't care what you call it. If we need to make up a new name and your company has had such a bad experience with Agile, make up a new name for it. I mean, say, no, it's this new project. It's the, I don't know, tangerine process. And it's, yeah, you haven't heard of it? Well, boy, it's great. It's this tangerine thing. Right, it's the latest thing. Tomorrow there will be a book on it. Scott (34:59) That's the way you were saying. Yes. Brian (35:07) Amazon, the tangerine process as invented by. And here's my research study showing how it's better than Agile. Right, right, exactly. But you know, it's oftentimes there is kind of a problem with a name. And so like I said, I don't care what it's called. You know, I'll give a shout out here because I had some conversations at the know, couple of conferences that took place over this year. And I was talking with one of my friends, Michael Sahota. Scott (35:14) We interviewed three people and yes, we got the data. Brian (35:37) So shout out Michael if you, if anyone kind of points out, I he's listening, but if he's listening, shout out to you for this. But we were talking about kind of the problem with the training courses and you know, how we fixed that and everything. And, one of the things we were talking about is, you know, if we could, if we could distill it down, if we could just have people lead with one thing, if they could walk away from those courses really embedded with the concept of I'm going to inspect and adapt. I'm going to inspect what I did. and adapt and when something doesn't go well, I'm not just gonna say, nah, I'll just keep doing it the wrong way. No, if it doesn't go the way it needs to, stop, figure out why and then change and try something new. If I could just get a team to do that without knowing all the practices, all the other, right, I don't care if you call each other, know, Scrum Masters or whatever, if you can just get that, then I think you will. naturally evolve into what you need to be for that company. But you got to have that underlying mentality, culture of it's not acceptable when something goes wrong. We have to figure out why and change. Scott (36:36) Mm Absolutely, and I'm with you. I don't care what's called anyways. My reference is a colleague in Southern California, Ben Rodolitz, and he's very big. I just don't use those words anymore. to be honest, it could be actually confusing for people. If they don't know what Agile means and you're using words from Agile, they're going to think they're mapping to what reality is. They're misunderstanding. So maybe we do start with terminology. I'm with you. I'll see my friends. I don't care if you use agile scrum, whatever. I would just say, Hey, we're to try to do something, see how that goes. Well, we're visiting two weeks and take a look at what we got and get, we'd love some feedback. I mean, it's all the same stuff, but we're expecting to not do things right. And learn along the way and not stop. That's the whole process of it. So for some of you that are doing this and feeling like, I think agile's X, we're not seeing results. would, I would take a look and are you breaking any of those fundamentals to begin with? And I think we are quick to say, yeah, but we can't do X, Y, Z Scott. can't have dedicated teams. Brian (37:37) Yeah, yeah. Scott (37:38) We can't actually get the stakeholders into the sprint review. We don't got time for the retro. Well, then we're one, you're not doing that stuff right. But even if you just call it something else in the end, do something, inspect and adapt, right? Learn by experience, try something out. I hear too much of, I don't think that'll work here. Well, do some, find out, do something and see what you get from that. Worst case, you're going to learn. But a lot of people are like, you know, we can't do that. They won't go for that. And we never actually even tried. But I love what you're saying. Maybe. for those out there listening, try a refreshing thing of different words and then, or move away from the language that they think they know and don't fight that fight. Pick the fights you think you can win in advanced stuff to get results and get noticed. And Brian, you might've seen this too. I've seen company after company, when they actually see results, the stakeholders see results, business are real, they don't care what you're doing, do more of that. I've watched them just pivot and like rush in. So maybe we do step away from all these. Brian (38:28) Yeah. Scott (38:34) methodology wars and language issues and just get back to what gets results. Do more of that. Learn as you go and keep them learning, right? Like the brass tax. Brian (38:44) Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm not surprised we went a little over, but I appreciate everyone. I hope we didn't eat into anyone's, know, screw up your walking schedule or anything if you're listening to this while you're walking. But, you know, when Scott and I get on a soapbox, you can just guarantee we're gonna be a little bit over. That's just how it goes. Scott (38:49) Next. You would love it. Brian (39:09) Well, Scott, I really appreciate you coming on, because I think this is a great episode. I really appreciate your views on this, and thank you for making the time. Scott (39:17) Yeah, you bet. And for those listening, honestly, put some feedback. We'd love to see what you think in terms of Agile is dead and continue that conversation. I do think it's gonna be an ongoing conversation. But again, thank you, Brian. My pleasure. Always happy to jump on here. Great to work with you guys.

Hour 2- Larry talks with Rich Fitzgerald about several issues, and things happening in our region during his weekly hour. They are also joined by Fayette county commissioner Scott Dunn to talk about the Fayette county fair.

Join Brian for the 100th episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast as he dives into the future of Agile with fan favorites Scott Dunn and Lance Dacy. Listen in as they explore the evolving role of AI, the continuous need for leadership innovation, and the Agile community's journey towards greater accountability and effectiveness. Overview In the 100th episode, our expert panel celebrates by examining the latest trends and enduring challenges in the Agile industry. They discuss the critical need for organizations to adapt and innovate, particularly through leadership and management strategies that foster high-performing teams. This episode is a deep dive into how embracing change and technological advancement can propel the Agile industry forward, ensuring that organizations not only survive but thrive in an ever-evolving business landscape. Listen Now to Discover: [1:10] - Join Brian in a special celebration of the 100th episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, featuring a look forward to future innovations in Agile! [1:43] - Brian kicks off the landmark 100th episode with a forward-looking panel on Agile and Scrum's future, featuring experts Scott Dunn and Lance Dacy. [4:01] - Listen in as Brian asks the panel to share their insights on emerging trends within Agile and Scrum, setting the stage for a thought-provoking conversation. [4:15] - Lance highlights key trends including solutions for scaling challenges, the integration of AI in Scrum, and innovations in leadership and management. [6:54] - Scott emphasizes the enduring impact of Agile and Scrum in driving organizational enhancements. [11:36] - Lance underscores the critical need for leadership and management to adopt innovative approaches and acknowledge generational changes to effectively engage and support their teams. [13:30] - Addressing the provocative statement that 'Agile is dead,' Brian explores its implications on the real-world demand for Agile compared to its perceived necessity. [14:50] - Brian, along with Scott and Lance, urges the Agile community to recognize its shortcomings and learning experiences, which they believe may be contributing to negative perceptions of Agile, and how the community could approach it differently. [24:10] - Brian encourages you to try out Goat Bot, Mountain Goat software’s Scrum & Agile AI tool. This free tool is trained to handle all your Agile and Scrum queries—start asking your questions today! [25:58] - The panel explores the impact of AI on enhancing agility in organizational practices in estimating, development, and so much more. [32:20] - Brian stresses the importance of using AI as a tool to support, not supplant, discussing ways it can improve rather than replace human efforts. [43:23] - Brian shares a big thank you to Scott and Lance for joining him on the 100th episode of the show. [43:44] - Brian thanks you, the listeners, for your support and shares his excitement for the future of the show, inviting you to send us your feedback or share your great ideas for episodes of the show. Just send us an email. [44:57] - We invite you to like and subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast. [45:16] - If you’d like to continue this discussion, join the Agile Mentors Community. You get a year of free membership into that site by taking any class with Mountain Goat Software, such as CSM, or CSPO, or Better User Stories Course. We also have Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® and Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner®, where we get right into the good stuff and have some deep discussions. We'd love to see you in one of Mountain Goat Software's classes, you can find the schedule here. References and resources mentioned in the show: Scott Dunn Lance Dacy Goat Bot Certified ScrumMaster® Training and Scrum Certification Certified Scrum Product Owner® Training Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Mike Cohn’s Better User Stories Course Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Lance Dacy is a Certified Scrum Trainer®, Certified Scrum Professional®, Certified ScrumMaster®, and Certified Scrum Product Owner®. Lance brings a great personality and servant's heart to his workshops. He loves seeing people walk away with tangible and practical things they can do with their teams straight away. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Agile Mentors, welcome. This is our 100th episode. Can you believe it? We've been doing this for 100 episodes now. So first, before we even get into today's episode, I just wanna say huge, huge thank you to you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for giving us feedback. Thank you for giving us suggestions. We would not have made it to 100 without you, so. Huge thanks to you. And to celebrate, we're trying to do something different here for the 100th and not just let it go by and not mark this occasion. So what I wanted to do was to have some of our regulars, our favorites on together so that we could really kind of look ahead. So let me introduce our panel for today. First of all, I've got Mr. Scott done with us. So Scott, welcome. Scott Dunn (01:00) Thank you, Brian. Glad to be here. This is awesome. Congratulations. That's so cool. Brian (01:04) That, thank you, thank you, thank you very much. And then another favorite that we have on quite frequently is Lance Dacey is with us as well. Lance Dacy (01:13) Hey Brian, congratulations once again. I remember us just talking about this when you were starting out with podcasts and you look at 100. You do this every week, right? Is it a, has it been a hundred weeks? Wow. Brian (01:22) Yeah. Yeah, we do this every week. We missed a couple. Our listeners probably know there's been a couple of times in there we've taken some small breaks around holidays and other things. But yeah, this is going on just about every week since then. Lance Dacy (01:38) Well, congratulations. That's amazing. Brian (01:40) Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I'm amazed and as I said, very, very grateful. And it really hit home to me when I went to my first conference after doing this and people would come up and say, hey, I listen. That was really a cool moment. And I always tell people, hey, I'm speaking to other conferences, come and say hi. Come and say hi to me this year. So as I said, I wanted to have a panel so that we could talk about, we've been... Scott Dunn (01:40) Amazing. Brian (02:10) doing this for 100 episodes and lots has changed, lots have changed over the past year and a half, almost two years now that we've been doing this. We kicked off on, I think it was May 18th, 2022. So we're coming up on two years of doing this. And my thought was, what's gonna happen over the next 100 episodes? Like, where are we gonna be in the next two years? Where are we gonna be in the next five years? What kind of things are changing? What are we going to think about stuff over that time period? So I wanted to have a panel to kind of comment and discuss this with us and Where I wanted to start is maybe not where I think most people are going to think I'm going to go But I want to start with kind of the agile industry kind of the way things are going now for Coaches consultants scrum masters product owners So I'm gonna throw this as an open question and whichever of you wants to go first, go first. But what do you think we're seeing right now? What kind of trends are you seeing in that realm? And where do you think it's gonna, where do you think it's going? Scott Dunn (03:26) I nominate Lance to go first. Lance Dacy (03:28) Okay, here, obviously they're thinking about Scott. It looks like he's got something to say. Okay, well, that's a tough question because I think it still depends on the industry and the organization. It's all made up of people still. So there's still a lot of variables, I think, that affect the way that we do our jobs as transition coaches or business agility coaches or agile coaches, whatever you wanna call us. I think... Brian (03:29) Hahaha Lance Dacy (03:59) You know, I think there's still plenty of organizations out there that are struggling to bring their people together to deliver great products. And it's not because they don't want to, it's just lacking the skills and the frameworks and things to do that. So I still think that there's some organizations out there that benefit from saying, hey, let's just start from what we know and start doing this and then adapt to it as it changes. But I think a lot of times organizations, I think scaling is one of those big. problem child out there that people have kind of learned how to do this with smaller teams and smaller parts of the organization, but getting the whole organization to collaborate together. And of course, they look to another framework for that. And I'm kind of framework agnostic, especially when it comes to scaling, because I think at the end of the day, if you can't do it well in the small environment, it's going to be very difficult to do it well in the large environment. So the best thing you can do is kind of analyze your own situation. with like value stream mappings and cross-functional teams and things like that, and try to make sure that you're organizing yourselves and preventing waste as much as possible, I think is one of the big things. But I've also seen a kind of an uptick in, of course, these practices in agile being distributed over non-software domains. We've seen that for a long time, that's not necessarily a new thing, but I think it's gravitating more. to that. But I think the biggest one is really what we're talking about today is how is this AI stuff or what we have been talking about, how is that affecting this? And I think it's here quicker than we really think, or already here. And so trying to figure out how to handle, you know, data driven decision making based on that and, you know, using these tools to integrate. And then I think the last one that I would talk about is leadership and management. I think There's a specific type of environment and culture required for these people to thrive and collaborate and leadership and management has not seen a lot of innovation in the last 150 years. So, I find myself spending a lot of time coaching executives and mid-level managers on how to foster an environment that we can know how we practice psychological safety, empowering people and making it a great place to work, especially in this remote distributed environment. So I don't know if it's... All that's fairly new, but I think it's more prevalent than it was in the past. So I don't know, Scott, go ahead. Scott Dunn (06:28) No, that's good stuff. And I've only got 35 points I want to walk through. So one, I think we had all agreed that this idea of agile seems to be the common experience we're seeing as we're still coaching out there in organizations. They think that they've already done that. That's in the past. What's next? Or they settled in like, we're just hybrid. And it's not a. So help us move forward. It's like, no, we weren't done that. Here's this other thing. But the other things they're needing. And I like it, Lance. You kind of mentioned a couple of other words that people use, like organizational improvement, organizational chiasm, these ideas, like, hey, we're trying to get better. And I almost rather use those words because if I use a word they think they know, then we've kind of lost the fact that, you know, we're there. It strikes me, it's a little bit like marketing. They're just like, nope, marketing's done. And now we're doing this. And like, no, marketing's always learning, moving forward, growing. And I think we're gonna see this idea they realize, like, oh. Agile wasn't like a destination we check the boxes now they're on Scrum team. So that's one thing we're continuing to see. And the reason I'm saying that is the problems are still the same problems. We're talking earlier about capacity management, visibility, clear, you know, can execs see where we are in these larger initiatives? And the answer is like, no, they're still not doing those well. That speaks to whole org. And two quick stories on that is one, we're working with a company that decided like, yes, we're going to take this whole org approach. Lance Dacy (07:27) Yeah. Scott Dunn (07:45) And once they, within a few months, they'd gone from cycle time of 100 days down to 10. They had tripled their productivity. They went from one release every two weeks to seven in a day, right? But that's because the whole org is represented as they're rolling out, actually holistically. Let's contract that with a company we're just talking to this week. I was trying to describe getting a group together, it's representatives across other departments who have people who have authority, who have influence, finances, et cetera. they could not grasp the idea that there'd be a team working on improvement items across the org. It took several explanations, like I'm not talking at the team level. I'm talking about the team that's working across the org level. And what part of this comes back to is I think of the idea of I'm a manager. This is my own like awakening recently. If I'm a manager, let's say I'm the software engineering manager, I'm the director, my concern, this is my mistake earlier, my concern is not, are we doing ads all right? My concern is, is my boss getting what they want? If my boss wants clear reporting on where we're at the features, I don't care if it's Agile, waterfall hybrid doesn't matter. Did you show me a nice pretty report that gives them what they need? That's what I, that's what I do not wanna be called into her office on Friday about, right? So I keep mistaken, like they wanna do Agile, right? No, they wanna check the box and what they're accountable for and meet those expectations. And I know the higher up the or we go, the less they probably understand about Agile. At least that's the surveys that I'm running is like a... a 20, 30, 50% gap between what these people say their managers think they understand about Agile and what the people actually do in the work know that they understand Agile or not, which is always a large gap. A good example of that is remote. I'm not trying to kick a dead horse when it's down or whatever the saying is, but we've talked about remote a lot, but here's what we're seeing is, I think the basis of a lot of this return to office is simply, I don't know my people are working or not, I just need to see them. Brian (09:30) Hahaha. Scott Dunn (09:41) I can't tell, and I can't see them, I can't tell, and I get nervous, which really means I don't really have an understanding of fundamental aspects of how work is done using transparency, inspect and adapt, all that, right? And because I can't really, I don't really have mastery over that, I'm gonna need you in the office at least three times a week. Because I don't, I'm not really watching the work anyways, but at least I know you're showing up, and I'm accountable to make sure people are busy and working. That's, you know, I draw it down to its most rudimentary level. To me, it's a reflection of the capability of management. You mentioned that, Lance, about leadership. I think we're starting to see Lance Dacy (09:41) Right. Brian (09:52) Yeah. Scott Dunn (10:11) What we probably will see is this real cutting line of those who get it and trust their people and they work. And we've seen, you know, 10X, 100X on, on experts really let loose to do their best work and those who are simply like, you know, managed in that traditional sense and all the drawbacks and your loss of talent, all that. I think the companies will have to pay the price eventually. Thinking back to the time when people didn't really want to go ad drug because they thought it was a fad. And it didn't take but a few years, like, um, I could be wrong. Brian (10:35) Yep. Scott Dunn (10:38) maybe that is a thing we need to do, right? And then everyone gets on board, but there was a lot of kicking and screaming and doubting the early years. I think we're gonna see that with remote work is made like the proving ground of do you really work this way or not as a manager? Do you get this or not? So those are some of the trends I see. I still see a lot of people still in the very fundamentals because they think these things are already understood and known and we're moving on to something next. There is no next. I think the pace of change out there is if you're not working this way as an organization, you're losing ground already. Like... while they're listening to the podcast. Lance Dacy (11:08) It's like the remote, you know, what you were just saying is like the remote is the automated test for your operating system at work is like, if it works like that, then we're likely doing some really good things. But you know, I remember, um, I'm going to show my age here though, but prior to my technology career, I worked at FedEx and I was in leadership and management, managing their third largest hub here in Fort Worth, Texas, uh, the air hub, you know, and FedEx did a great job teaching leadership and management and all that kind of stuff. Brian (11:08) Yeah. Scott Dunn (11:14) Thank you. Lance Dacy (11:36) And I remember them focusing on the idea that you cannot lead and manage people currently how you are going to in the future because they were talking about how the new generation is coming on board and they just won't tolerate certain things. And I think you hit it on the head with that, Scott, that if these managers don't learn how to lead and manage with this newer generation, two or three removed from what I'm talking about. you're not going to have any employees because they will not tolerate it. They do not work that way. They work radically different. You know, I'm going to categorize money as a gen X person. And I'm going to say we were taught to be very individualistic, climb the corporate ladder, you know, keep your pain to yourself, just grin and bear it, fight through it, do the best you can and be autonomous and don't rely on a lot of people. And, you know, don't trust anybody. You know, the latchkey kids, we just were independent. We learned how to do it all. And that's not necessarily bad. We needed to be managed a different way than these people now. I, and I've got four kids, so I see it. It's like, they're not going to tolerate this stuff. So you hit it on the head with that leadership. I mean, coverage, a broad spectrum, but, um, Mike gave a talk in Oh nine. I'll never forget this. When I first went to the scrum gathering in Orlando and Oh nine, and he was on a panel and he said it really succinctly. He said, I hope we don't call it agile or scrum anymore. It's just the way that we work. Brian (12:36) Yeah. Lance Dacy (12:54) And he was referencing object oriented programming. You know, he said, we don't call it object oriented programming anymore, it's just programming, you know, object one. And so it's like, yeah, we're not going to, let's not have this debate. We want to build the highest business value things as early as possible with the least amount of costs who can argue that that's not the right way to run an organization. So let's not debate it. Let's not use the buzzwords. Let's just do it. Brian (13:01) Right. Scott Dunn (13:12) Yes. Brian (13:18) Yeah, I agree. And it's, you know, kind of back to what Scott said, too, there is a marketing issue here, right? There is this kind of idea of people are so saturated with the terms that they've experienced them and they feel like, hey, I know that I know what that is, I don't need to be I don't need to learn any more about that. And now I'm just kind of moving forward when they don't really. And that's what drives all the people out there that are saying Agile is dead and all the Agile is dead speakers and all that stuff. It's not dead. And if you listen to them, they don't say it's dead. They just say, people don't understand what it is. And so they're doing it wrong. I think there's kind of this interesting dynamic going on. Right, because on one hand, I think we're at a time when Scott Dunn (13:54) Mm-hmm. Brian (14:03) businesses could benefit the most from doing things like Agile because they're gonna get the most with less by doing these kinds of approaches. However, at the same time, we're hearing stories of entire Agile departments being let go in different organizations. And we're seeing people who struggle after coming through classes and stuff finding work as a scrum master, even though there's a demand. There's high demand still for these kinds of things. So there's sort of this dichotomy that's going on of, I think there's a slump going on in the agile demand when the need for it is high. And maybe that's a marketing, right. Maybe that's a marketing thing that we haven't done a good job, but I wanna propose one other thing here and I wanna get your guys take on this. Lance Dacy (14:51) than ever. Brian (15:02) The people who say Agile is dead and they say that, we shouldn't be doing this because we should call it something else. Because no one understands what it is anymore. And that's why they say it's dead. I have generally thought of those, and I think many of us sometimes fault the leadership a little bit in this to say, they didn't invest enough to understand it. They didn't really support it, right? Kind of that mentality. But I think that as an Agile community, that we need to own up. Like, I think we just need to step forward and say, you know what, we have not always done it right. And there's been plenty, you know, I talked about this in the Scrum Master class. There's plenty of Scrum Masters out there who think that the job of being a Scrum Master is to schedule meetings. And that is it. And... Scott Dunn (15:55) Oh. Brian (15:58) You know, those people, you can understand why a company would say, I don't need that person. I don't need a person to do that. And then all of a sudden they're letting go all of their Scrum Masters because they think that's what a Scrum Master is. So I think we have to own up a little bit to say, we're partly responsible for this, right? We're partly responsible for the bad impression that Agile has and we just gotta own it and say, yes, that's true, but that's because we've made mistakes as well and we're learning. Lance Dacy (16:17) Thank you. Brian (16:28) And now we know better, right? Now we know what we're supposed to do. But the pretense that we maybe came into it with, saying, hey, we know everything and we know how to do this stuff, was what caused the downfall, I think. What do you think? Scott Dunn (16:32) Hmm. Lance Dacy (16:44) It's like the overlay though of saying here, here's how you do it, right? I think what we got wrong or not necessarily wrong, just we didn't know any better at the time is, I've worked with 20 companies and this way work, let's try it. And then if it doesn't work, we'll adapt it. Cause I think it's always been about that. But you know, just like any approach, you know, the effectiveness of that approach depends a lot on how it's implemented, supported, adapted, taught. And I feel like what we should just start focusing on, you know, it's hard to put this in one term, Maybe it's just like helping and facilitating the creation of high performing teams. Like that's an unarguable thing that you would want to have. What's happening is the organizations either whether they misunderstand the role or have a bad experience in the past with it because you can't say their experience is invalid, right? Everybody has their different experience and opinion and what they went through. And I acknowledge that. But if you think of any professional sports teams, what's happening in the organizations in this world? Brian (17:20) Yeah. Lance Dacy (17:43) is they're getting rid of the coach of the team. And what we have to do is start recognizing what does the coach really do is trying to make the team high performing. You know, in professional sports, it's to score points and win the game, right? Well, kind of trying to do the same thing here, you would never get rid of the coaching position saying, well, all they do is watch film and tell the team what they're doing wrong. No, I mean, Andy Reid, you know, the Kansas City Chiefs, they won the Super Bowl, arguably the best football team in the world, if that's what you're using as a bar. And... Scott Dunn (17:46) Thank you. Brian (17:55) No. Scott Dunn (18:03) Thank you. Lance Dacy (18:12) And so they've arrived, they're the best. Do we get rid of Andy Reid? No, they need him even more because they get complacent and they get this idea that we don't need to change anything. And I see plenty of teams like that. It's like, no, the coach has one of the hardest jobs in the world is to tell the best performing team in the world they can get better. And the organization sometimes is the wet blanket and suffocating the environment for which that team can perform. Scott Dunn (18:16) Thank you. Lance Dacy (18:37) And I feel like, you know, instead of whether you want to call it a scrum master and agile codes or whatever, it's almost hard to use those terms. Some of these people anymore, because they'll just sit there and argue with you about it, but let's just say I'm trying to coach a high performing team and how can you argue with that, you know? Brian (18:50) Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you can. Scott, what do you think? Scott Dunn (18:53) If I was to ask you, well, if I was to ask both of you, do traditional management, whoever's making hiring decisions, do they know what an agile coach is and what's in telling them that they're doing well or not? And I would argue the most don't. And I think that's why we see a lot of people, I mean, in the end, people follow the money. I don't call people for work and their own self-interest. So if I can just update my LinkedIn profile and change it to agile coach. and whoever interviews me can't tell a difference. And that means I get a salary bump and of course, or let's just tell it like it is. And I think your listeners, I know you to be good with this. If I can just take a two day class and I'm gonna get a 25% salary increase, whether or not I get it or not, let's not even go there. Like I passed the test, I've got the certification. And unfortunately, I think that's more the dynamics of any given market is like, oh, it jumps to the solution, right? I just, you know. hire these scrum masters and I've done the agile thing. And even though any of us would say like, that's much bigger than that, this agile coaching involved is much more than the two day class that you need, et cetera. But think about that. I'd look at the people that I've trained, which, you know, is thousands. How many companies actually came back and said, we need help as an agile coach? 20, 22 dozen, right? That we actually went in and did real transformation work. So that's them not asking. That's them like, no, we got it. I think that simplicity of understanding Do I take a solution or do I go through a mindset change? Well, taking the solutions is going to be easier. So I'm going to jump to that rather than like reflect, like, I think we need to change. Change is hard, we agree. So back to the point of like, are we to blame? I see some of that market dynamics, but we do that with diets. We do that with the career. Also Greg, we wouldn't just grab something easier than actually go through the change. So I do agree with you, but I think it's a good point. How we try to re-message that when the world already thinks I understand it. I think we're watching this happen. When I look at companies in that space, Brian (20:30) Yep. Scott Dunn (20:42) They are using different terms and phrases. I think that moves us away from, maybe that's an aspect of like, where to blame. The other interesting thing, Lance, you mentioned about the coach and we don't fire the coach. And I think that's the best example I go to is, look, I'm a business owner of a professional sports team. I'm watching the dollars and I don't wanna have to pay Andy Reid millions, but I know it gets results. And I don't wanna coach for the offensive line. I don't wanna coach for defensive, but the results are clear whether that works or not. Brian (21:03) Yeah. Scott Dunn (21:08) The other thing that's interesting is you watch some of these coaches, like when it changed in college football with name engine, name engine and likeness in terms of attracting students for different reasons. Like I can make money during college. I don't have to hope I make the pros. And how that changed the game significantly to where some coaches like, forget it. I don't want to play this game where they're now empowered to make their own decisions on where they want to go and not just sit on the bench. If I want to sit on the bench, the transfer portal. So you're watching dynamics play out on what does that mean to bring that change in? I do think in the end, there's probably a simple split on, there's an organization that needs to continuously improve and look for ways to do that. Not as one-off projects of, hey, let's do an improvement project here. But as a feeder backlog, but simply there's always ways to improve and stuff's always coming in and we're always working that as a layer of the way the organization runs. When I see a chief agility officer, some of these other roles, I think they get it. I think manufacturing systems get that with like lean thinking and like, That's just what we do. We're always looking for that. I don't think software engineering. And this organization get it. And to be honest, my friends, you can tell me if I'm off. I don't know if they got sold that truth of this is always going. It is not put all your engineers on the teams, hire a scrum master, change someone's title of product owner and you're good, right? But I think that's what they kind of thought it was. And then they're done, but that's a team level. It's not organization level and it just sits there. So I guess there is someone with the blame because maybe that's what they were taught and not the bigger picture as well. Brian (22:25) Yeah. Yeah. Scott Dunn (22:35) Perhaps. Lance Dacy (22:36) The rebranding is interesting the way you said that. I don't, you know, let's call it something other than Agilent or Scrum, whatever you were talking about. And that's what organizations do when things are broken, is they reorg. We're gonna just change the name of it. It's like following a diet plan and going, well, I don't like that it doesn't let me have sugar, so I'm just gonna call it something different. The constraint. Brian (22:48) Hmm. Yep, you're right. Scott Dunn (22:50) Yes, yes Lance Dacy (23:02) You know, the constraint is there to make you better. And I think that's what a lot of people don't get about, let's say the Scrum framework has a lot of constraints built in not to make it harder to do your work. And I will argue it's harder. Like I tell people all the time, this is a harder way to work. It's not an easier way because it requires all of us to come together. But you just said it so eloquently, Scott, I just thought about that, that they just, who cares what we call it. Brian (23:03) Yeah. Scott Dunn (23:16) Yes, for sure. Lance Dacy (23:26) the organization and the leadership is stuck by saying that at their level, all they gotta do is call it something different and now it's solved. All I gotta do is change the org chart on a spreadsheet. And I can't tell you how many organizations I work with where I'll get a note and say, well, we're going through a reorg right now, so we gotta hold off on this training or do this or do that. It's like, well, you just went through one, I've worked with companies that have been their coach for a very long time. It's like, how many of these are we gonna go through? What's the purpose? When are we going to start realizing that it's not who reports to who, it's who's doing the work and what's the environment and culture we've created for them. And I feel like leadership and management, I don't even care if it's software. Like Scott, you're saying software, we really don't get it. I'm not sure any company really, there's a few out there that I would say their leadership and management's working really well, but the operating system for the culture is broken. And, you know, we know that for a long time as agile coaches, but it's like, there's some benefits to be gained even while that's happening. Brian (23:54) Yeah. Lance Dacy (24:24) that we can get some efficiencies going here and they're still better off. But we've hit that next level, the problems are more complex now. People and it's leadership and it's hard to change those because they've been doing it for 150 years this way. You know? Scott Dunn (24:34) Yes. Brian (24:34) Yeah. Scott Dunn (24:40) Yes. Yeah. Brian (24:41) Yeah. Well, we can't leave the episode without talking about AI, at least a little bit, because I know you brought that up already. But yeah, we definitely need to think about AI in the future. And yeah, yeah. Because I know we talked about that a little bit when we were meeting here before we started to record. But just curious. Scott Dunn (24:46) Hahaha! Lance Dacy (24:52) leaders and managers. Scott Dunn (24:54) Yes. Brian (25:06) Where do you think that whole thing is going? What I should say is, how do you think it's going to affect agility? That's the big question. Lance Dacy (25:17) You want me to go again first, Scott, or is he going to flip flop? Scott Dunn (25:20) No, no, we're not flip-flopping. It's you, man. You got it. I'm not changing. Brian (25:23) Hahaha Lance Dacy (25:23) Okay. He has some reason to do this. You know, I feel like I'm walking into a trap here. Um, the way he's going to trap me. Um, well, and you know, we were kind of talking before we even, you know, started the podcast, but I was mentioning, you know, project management wise, you know, that I believe AI can bring a lot to just helping teams become more efficient and productive just at a superficial level by simply Scott Dunn (25:28) With pretty... Brian (25:29) No, that's a wrong answer, Lance. Lance Dacy (25:50) if we're talking about Scrum, let's say, because a lot of us practice Scrum and we teach it, you think about a sprint planning exercise and how often it's very difficult to just simply explain how to come up with your capacity for the next two weeks, and based on your skillset and the work needing to be done, are we sure and confident that the work we've committed in this next one, two, three, or four week period that we can actually get it done? as a cross-functional team within the constraint of getting something usable to the end user. I think a lot of people forget that as well. So I feel like automating things like sprint planning where you can feed in a profile of all of your different skill sets and their capacity. We no longer languish over this big spreadsheet that I used to use back 10, 12 years ago. There's a lot of better ways to do it nowadays, but I think eventually you just say, based on this team and what they've given me, here's how much work we can do. feed in the work and say here's the best sequence of the work. You know, the harder part is fitting, you know, utilization is not really a topic I want to get into because I think it's always misunderstood. But once you account for all of the slack time that you need to, you want to be as utilized as possible. I think using AI to help figure out what's the best path. Like I do an exercise in my class where I give them 10 backlog items and based on the different skills, capacity, and things that need to be done, what's the best fit? Right, so in data science, we talk about fitting the model. Why not use AI to help us be the best sequencing of the work with the highest value and the best way to use our capacity? So automatic task assignment, just like we do with calendars now, where people can feed in the work they need to do and it'll create the best calendar fit to maximize your workload. Automated code is coming, you know, we're already here. You know, automated. backlog creation, chat bots, AI driven testing. I think all of that is, if not here already around the corner, that's gonna affect, hopefully in a good way, the way that teams do that. Now, we can have a whole nother topic of how that affects product and marketing, because I think the biggest issue we have is getting closer to the user, and understanding and having empathy for them, because too often we get caught up in our own world that we're just... Brian (28:03) Yep. Lance Dacy (28:10) languishing through trying to get the work out. Well, why are we doing the work is the real reason and what's the best way we can get that work to the user that solves their problem. So I'll pause there. There's a hundred things I could go in. I had 35 bullet points. I have about 110, because I love this stuff, AI and data science and all that stuff. But Scott, I'd like to hear you had some good ideas in our pre-talk as well. Scott Dunn (28:14) Thank you. Thank you. Well, I appreciate you inviting me out to the Lance Dacey podcast. I just want to say thank you for that. Right when he drank his water too. Brian (28:37) Hahaha! Weird. Lance Dacy (28:44) Right. I can't respond. Let me take a scotch now that I can respond. Brian (28:46) Yeah. Scott Dunn (28:49) Yeah, he just needs to take a drink. He's ready to go. I know I love it. I love all the ideas in the Thoughtsland. So on my particular view, when we look at the companies we're helping, so we're Atlassian partners, so I'm watching what they're doing. And I mentioned about the fact that it can automatically do like acceptance criteria, you can ask. Anything about, take all the, what we used to call it, the tribal knowledge. It's gonna do that for you. I don't need to track down who's Lucy whomever. I'm just gonna ask it and it knows. I can say, give me a spreadsheet of the people involved with this. What's the background of this project? Any of that tribal knowledge is like, it's already there now. All that data sitting in Confluence, and Jira, et cetera, ability to create tickets. I'm not going and manually creating tickets anymore. I just say, create a ticket for this thing. So all those add up to lots of saving, time savings, all the manual stuff, anything that you just already know. And everyone hates making the tickets and doing so. it's going to take care of that stuff for you automatically. On the dev and engineering side, I'm seeing a lot around what seems to be promising, impossible, certainly code reviews, like there's a template of things that you know you're checking for in code reviews, readiness to go to production. Can it create these models and things? I think we'll wait to see. We're talking about the case tools, but I believe it will because it's not limitless on when we're creating basic applications. If you take your simplest thing like hello world, you know. or a basic screen that's only got five things or a login screen, there's only so many permutations what's gonna happen with that. And it can learn those things and do those things. Software engineering is your biggest cost for software companies, these engineers, and they're hard to find, and you got time zone issues and all these other things. Everyone's looking for ways to reduce cost right now. We've got issues of just getting the talent and the source, and you got parts of these engineers' work that they do not wanna be doing anyways. So I think you're gonna see a lot of those things put pressure on figuring that stuff out. But between the computing power that we're talking about, how much can be handled by those graphics chips and how much information is out there, I think you're gonna see real wins of measurable significance that's gonna be proven out and certainly driven by the business leaders themselves trying to find where can we reduce the cost with the promise of some of these things. But those are some that I've already seen. We're definitely watching, as I mentioned, Brian (30:43) Yeah. Scott Dunn (31:12) on the Scrum developer side, just saying like, what's happening out there? And just take a look and see what we can do. But you're gonna start finding the simpler solutions that are gonna be chipped away at first. I think about the self-driving cars. I remember thinking there's no way the car can handle all these, you know, what felt like limitless situations. It really isn't. There's only so many things happening on the roads and they have slowly learned to do that. I think it's gonna be the same on the engineering side as well. Brian (31:31) Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I agree with both of you. I kind of think that I've taken a stance on it, like in the past, I just see it as a tool. It's a more advanced tool and it can do some things better than we can right now. There's some things that does really well and there's some things that right now it's not very good at. And I think it's important to try to understand that, right? I'm not gonna, you know. I think I've come to a place where I would never say, I don't think it could do X, Y, Z, because I think that eventually it can. I think that there's gonna be things it can do. And it's just a matter of time before it can do pretty much anything that we could be doing right now. Even right now, one of the things it's really, really bad at is having ideas. It doesn't really... Scott Dunn (32:10) Right. Brian (32:30) brainstorm or it can give you ways of, it can give you some little tidbits and things that you can build upon. But having used it to help try to write a blog post or anything like that, well, here's an experiment, right? Go to any, your favorite AI and ask it for 10 business ideas based on whatever, just, Uh... Lance Dacy (33:01) Of course it's not going to be good at that. Brian (33:03) Well, no, it'll give you, it'll give you 10. Scott Dunn (33:03) There's a creativity problem right there. We have a problem with creativity. I see it. Lance Dacy (33:07) I'm just kidding, bro. Brian (33:08) Yeah, it'll give you 10, but then go back and ask it and do a new chat, ask it again. Do a new chat, ask it a third time. Compare the answers you got across all three. And what you'll see is it's a lot of reused stuff, right? And the reason that it's recycling it, the reason it's reusing it is because this is a large language model. This is pulling from what it's been trained on, right? It doesn't invent a new thing itself. Lance Dacy (33:33) Mm-hmm. Create new you Brian (33:38) Right, now again, I'm not saying that it can't do that in the future, but what we have today is not a creative source in that way. It has to have the training data, even image, kind of AI image generators, that's built on what it's trained on. So you can't train it to a point to say, give me a picture of something that you haven't been trained on, right? weird picture that you have nothing in your database to go back to and use as a reference. It can't do that because it can't imagine, right? Yeah. Scott Dunn (34:18) Yes, that's the key. Lance Dacy (34:22) I was working with a company, they do ads, helping people come up with ads. So a lot of marketing spend money out there, right? You can tell it what kind of market you want to go into, what your competitors are doing, and very quickly feed it some images, feed it a few websites, and it'll give you 100 different ads with the words and everything you want to take on it, and already give it a conversion score. Like... Brian (34:44) Yeah. Lance Dacy (34:45) this ad should get this amount. And it was amazing to me, because I kind of struggle with that anyway, as a business owner, creatively coming up with content and ads and things like that. Like we were talking about earlier, I don't think on this podcast, but like being a co-pilot, having the AI stuff be a co-pilot where we kind of use it as a tool. I think eventually it'll be vice versa, ironically, where we'll be the co-pilots. I think... You like personalized user experience, creativity type things like, you know, how we do AB testing and stuff. Why not let AI do a lot of that user research and spin up the code very easily and figure out click patterns and things like that. Like I could say, I need nine different designs for this one screen. I mean, that used to take weeks, if not months for a designer to sit and attend, I'm not trying to bash their field. I love working with them. And. They're very creative people, but I feel like that's going to be the next step with this AI is, hey, give me nine options. And then that designer spends less time creatively. They get better ideas sometimes. Maybe some of them don't like that. I don't know. I'm not a creative person like that. But I can see that helping me in saying, hey, I don't have to hire these nine marketing people or five marketing people. I can just say, hey, let's look at those things. So I think that user, that creativity, Brian, is what you were hitting on imagining things. Brian (36:02) Yeah. Lance Dacy (36:03) Yeah, give it a lot of data can give you options and then you can take that and come up with the ideas as a human, but yeah, eventually that'll all be taken over too, I think it's all taken over the world. T1000, here we come. Brian (36:15) I think you've got to have one of the concepts that's out there is referring to these as agents and having multiple agents that will carry out a different task for you. And I really think that's when I think about the future of this kind of stuff and how this would affect a typical software development team, that's what I see. We have hierarchies in our organizations that exist. And those are essentially different layers of agents, right? Lance Dacy (36:23) Yeah. Brian (36:43) And I think that that's what we're going to see with software development teams and other things is we'll have a deployed network of agents and these, these AI agents will speak to each other and they'll, they'll refine what each other do. Uh, right. And it makes it easier for us, but again, we've got to have the idea to generate it, to start it, right? It just, it can't do that on its own right now. Lance Dacy (36:57) make it easier for us. Scott Dunn (37:03) Cheers. There's definitely a few things where I've just been popping in, where I had to do some legal docs and I just went there and had it write them. They were great. Just fill in the blanks. I was waiting to get content back from someone about a speaker, maybe somebody to go about Mark Kilby on remote and waiting and waiting. I'm like, dog gone. I just wouldn't ask, you know, chat GPT tell me about Mark Kilby, what he does and grab that. And it did a great job. Put that out there. I didn't need, I didn't need someone else to do it. I didn't need to wait for that. Brian (37:31) Yeah. Scott Dunn (37:34) And I don't even look for creative art anymore. I simply say, give me this art. I do it in Creative Cloud. Give me that, and then you know, good enough's good enough. I move, because it's like you're touching on the delays on some of the things that can be the killer of that. I think in the same way back in the day, Sudhnyalanshi said that you're dating yourself. And I remember when I was younger, we just had electricity for the first, I'm just kidding. But think about the first time when you're telling people like, no, the computer could do that for you. Lance Dacy (37:35) I'll see you later. Scott Dunn (38:02) I feel like we're becoming a lot of companies now like, no, AI could do that for you because they just don't know. If they're working a certain way and they've been in that company for 20 years, they think, no, my job is to create the new insurance for them and then send that, no, you don't have to do all that. So I think it'll be a redistribution because for all of us to see here right now and say, I've let go of thinking there's limits to this and that's where I've come to last few weeks. And we're, and we're. Lance Dacy (38:23) Yeah. Scott Dunn (38:26) Well, I'm going to, I feel, I feel we're cutting edge. Your audience may say differently, Brian, but I feel like we're cutting. I feel like we're cutting edge. And if we're just coming to realization, there's not limits. Think about your traditional worker who's not necessarily a knowledge worker, they're just in the office. They have a certain role. It's been not too different over the last 10, 20 years. They have no idea. I probably could cut that. You mentioned Lance about the ads and I was seeing something recently that said that those AI ads can cut, can cut the design time by 90%. Brian (38:31) Yeah Lance Dacy (38:46) Yeah. I would totally agree. I mean, I tried it and you just like you were saying, waiting on delays to me is my biggest thing. Like the best thing we can do for an organization is a value stream mapping of some sort and say, where does the cycle times killing us? There's so much low hanging fruit there that you could turn that into millions of dollars. And if we were just quit articulating words for that, let's just go do it. I feel like that's what AI is gonna do for us. We were talking about the, Mike's Brian (38:55) now. Lance Dacy (39:22) written a book on user stories and all that. So I'm going to use that as an example, as a product backlog entry point to getting work done. And I think we were talking about this before the podcast. And I feel like eventually we're just going to have a user say, as a user, I need to be able to pay by MasterCard on this screen and make sure the error message says this. And if it is successful, do that. And we won't need programmers. The computer will take that. And it'll write the code for that. It'll deploy the code and it'll say, what do you think about that? And so when you talk about this with agile, but I don't know what we're gonna have these, we're just gonna have users that can now have software created for them. Just like I can an ad, you know, it's like, I'm gonna have this design created, but I speak to it in natural language. Who cares if it's C++, COBOL or JavaScript or Python or whatever, it doesn't matter anymore. The computer will decide. and write it, deploy it, and manage it, and take all the complexity out of it. That's eventually where I think we're headed. Brian (40:23) OK, I just want to state this out there for all the listeners. Make sure you at the right person on this. It's Lance Dacey who said that all the programmers are losing their jobs. All right, just make sure you get it right. That's who said it. Uh. Lance Dacy (40:36) Oh my gosh. Scott Dunn (40:40) Here's to seeing you all again. Lance Dacy (40:41) Did I really say all? I just said it's going to be a disruptor. I thought, but you know, I'm sorry. So just like I think you like your next designers, I think software programmers are just highly creative and great people. So I mean, no, uh, you know, no, just be on the lookout, find a way to contribute to the fact that your job. Scott Dunn (40:45) I heard everyone within the year. I think that's what I heard. Brian (41:03) Yeah. No, I mean, all teasing aside, I think that the developers who are using it now within their IDEs and locked into some of these tools that are available to have AI help them with code, they're ahead of the game. And people who are afraid of that stuff and saying, no, I'm not going to keep that at arm's length, we've seen this movie a million times. Right. Scott Dunn (41:03) Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Lance Dacy (41:19) Yeah. Yeah, played out over and over. It's like, you know what, Brian, two weeks ago, I don't know what the time is, I'm just being facetious right now, but a while ago, I would say that not true about programs because I say you will always need somebody programming the computer, but I've since now changed my mind thinking because I'm highly agile and I learned in that space and I drink my own champagne. That's not really true because I can go into chat, you know, I took, I'm a programmer myself, so I mean, no disdain about that, I remember in school, the first program I had to write was C++ about calculating the Easter Sunday date for a given year. And I had to write code to do that. And I tested that with my son over my shoulder, saying, I'm going to show you what ChatGPT can do. I said, write me a C++ program that calculates Easter Sunday for a given year. And I swear to you, in under a minute, all the code was there. Now, it didn't run. I had to take it and put it into an IDE and compile it and do all that stuff. But it worked. And it took me months to do that. So all I'm trying to say is it can help us be better. The creative side will always be there, but can you imagine not having to worry about code anymore? And you do more of prompting the computer instead of coding. That's really what I mean. I don't want to say their jobs are going away. I just think their jobs are going to be changed. They're going to be the next disruptor, just like I was talking about real estate agents and banking and all of us have been disrupted. But we gotta welcome it. Take it. Brian (42:37) Yeah. Scott Dunn (42:40) Yes. Brian (42:49) Yep. Yeah, right. Welcome to the party, pal. Yeah, no, I agree. Lance Dacy (42:57) Right! Scott Dunn (42:59) I feel like saying at this point, we should let all the listeners know that actually this podcast is AI generated and these are not actual people here. Lance Dacy (43:07) I'm not really sure. Brian (43:10) Yeah, this was done with the approval of these three people, but written by written by AI agents. No, no, it's absolutely not. These are real human beings. Well, guys, this has been a really interesting discussion. And I know we've gone a little bit long. But hey, it's the hundredth episode. Come on, cut us some slack, right? We got three of us here. We obviously are going to kind of diverge a little bit. So Lance Dacy (43:15) Good. Brian (43:35) Thank you guys so much for coming on and helping us to celebrate this 100th episode. I really appreciate it. So just want, you know, Scott, thank you. Scott Dunn (43:45) Thank you. Brian (43:46) And Lance, thank you as well. Lance Dacy (43:48) I'm about to say Lance, no thanks. Thank you, Greg and Brian. I always love being on here and Scott, great to see you. It's been too long. Scott Dunn (43:49) Yeah. Hahaha. Good job. Brian (43:52) Right. Scott Dunn (43:56) These two, yes, really enjoyed it. Brian (43:57) Awesome.

This content is for Members only. Come and join us by subscribing here In the meantime, here's some more details about the show: It's a warm welcome then to the man himself: Dr. Brad Stone - the JazzWeek Programmer of the Year 2017, who's here every Thursday to present The Creative Source - a two hour show, highlighting jazz-fusion and progressive jazz flavours from back then, the here and now, plus occasional forays into the future. Please feel free to get in touch with Brad with any comments or suggestions you might have; he'll be more than happy to hear from you: brad@soulandjazz.com or follow him via Facebook or Twitter. Enjoy! The Creative Source 18th April 2024 Artist - Track - Album - Year PSA    Circle Around    PSA    2024 Kenny Garrett & Svoy    Ascendence    Who Killed AI    2024 Ray Obiedo    Alquezar    Twist    2024 Idit Shner & Mhondoro    Henceforth    Ngatibatanei (Let Us Unite!)    2024 David Schumacher & Cubeye    You Know It's Wrong    Smoke in the Sky    2024 Kelly Green    What to Do    Seems    2024 Scott Dunn with Claire Martin and The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra    Don't Play Games with Love    I Watch You Sleep: Scott Dunn Celebrates Richard Rodney Powell    2023 Pierre L Chambers    Afro Blue    Shining Moments    2023 Alyssa Allgood    Still Searching    From Here    2024 Andrea Wolper    The Nature of Life    Wanderlust    2024 Brent Birckhead    Cold Fried Chicken    Cacao    2024 Daggerboard    Climbing in the Cocoon    Escapement    2024 Charles Pillow Large Ensemble    Yaphet    Electric Miles 2    2024 Charles Lloyd    Beyond Darkness    The Sky Will Still Be There Tomorrow    2024 Dayna Stephens    A New Spring    Closer Than We Think    2024 Jeremy Pelt    Basquiat    Tomorrow's Another Day    2024 Geoff Stradling & The StradBand    Brecker Sketch    Nimble Digits    2024 Bobby Sevaggiio 11    Concentric Circles    Stories, Dreams, Inspirations: For My Boy    2024 Rachel Z    Save My Soul    Sensual    2024 Seulah Noh Jazz Orchestra    Hear the Light (feat. Astghik Martirosyan)    Nohmad    2023 Seulah Noh Jazz Orchestra    L'illusionniste (feat. Song Yi Jeon) (Alternate Take)    Nohmad    2023 The post The Creative Source (#CreativeSource) – 18th April 2024 appeared first on SoulandJazz.com | Stereo, not stereotypical ®.

Family trips have evolved greatly. Gone are the days of quick trips to neighbouring countries, travel experts are now seeing families becoming more adventurous in the places they go to and the activities they participate in.  Plus, families are beginning to travel with their children from an even younger age, bucking the term “they're too young to remember anything”. So is the South African continent the next 'go to' place for families? Gwen Ho, Luxury travel consultant & South Africa Specialist, Scott Dunn shares more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, we are in the great state of Texas! First up, Lauren shares the spooky tales from the potentially demonic Goatman's Bridge. Its horrific origin story(s) makes it a hotbed for evil spirits and lost souls. We suggest listening to this portion at a lower volume because Kenzie will be squealing, screaming, and shouting while Lauren tells her story. Next, Kenzie talks about the complicated case of 24 year old Scott Dunn. Investigators are not sure they will get a conviction without a body, but that won't stop them from trying! We are 100% sure you are going to enjoy this episode!--Follow us on Social Media and find out how to support A Scary State by clicking on our Link Tree: https://instabio.cc/4050223uxWQAl--Have a scary tale or listener story of your own? Send us an email to ascarystatepodcast@gmail.com! We can't wait to read it!--Thinking of starting a podcast? Thinking about using Buzzsprout for that? Well use our link to let Buzzsprout know we sent you and get a $20 Amazon gift card if you sign up for a paid plan!https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1722892--Works cited!https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yta4QOa3v1nS3V-vOcYPNx3xSgv_GckdFcZj6FBt8zg/edit?usp=sharing --Intro and outro music thanks to Kevin MacLeod. You can visit his site here: http://incompetech.com/. Which is where we found our music!

There's nothing like headline news with expert analysis, or game highlights by your favorite sports commentator. With that in mind, we're kicking off Season 2 of Connect with the best of the best!Join us for more than just a retrospective, as we shine a spotlight on memorable moments, keen insights and major revelations from Season 1. In S2E1, our hosts Scott Dunn and James Marcella unite to reflect on conversations with technology trailblazers spanning diverse industries, professions and use cases. Discover what they found most challenging and surprising, which technologies they think hold the greatest promise, and their predictions for the future. Whether you're new to Connect or a regular listener, the collective lessons learned from the best of 2023 are a great way to spark innovation and kick off your new year!For more information about Axis Communications, visit us at www.axis.comFollow us on social media at Axis Communications - Home | FacebookAxis Communications: My Company | LinkedInAxis North America (@Axis_NA) / Twitter

Join Brian and Scott Dunn as they journey into the heart of handling conflicts and challenges within small teams for effective teamwork in the latest episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Scott Dunn sits down with Brian to delve into handling conflicts and challenges within small teams. From the impact of hierarchies on team dynamics to the nuances of technical leadership, listen in as Brian and Scott tackle the intricacies of managing conflicts to navigate the delicate balance between individual excellence and fostering a collaborative team culture. Listen in as Listen Now to Discover: [01:54] - Today, Brian is sitting down with Scott Dunn to discuss the topic of handling conflicts and challenges in small teams, particularly regarding hierarchies and experience levels. [03:17] - Scott shares his experience with issues arising from unofficial authorities, highlighting challenges with project managers and leads. [04:03] - Scott talks about the transition to a democratic process and shares a humorous anecdote about a unique meeting disruption and the resolution. [07:27] - Brian discusses the challenge of individuals feeling a loss of authority in the shift to self-organization and emphasizes the need for communication to address their concerns. [08:27] - Brian categorizes leads into obstructive and unintentionally hindering types. [09:27] - Scott discusses the need for aligning expectations with Agile principles. [11:34] - Brian discusses the challenges faced by Scrum Masters and Agile coaches in identifying and addressing team dynamics, emphasizing the importance of clear communication, and understanding to resolve misunderstandings. [12:07] - Scott shares an example of a scrum master effectively addressing a bottleneck issue with a lead. [13:13] - Brian highlights a leadership misunderstanding where senior individuals are consistently assigned challenging tasks and the unintended consequences of pigeonholing experts into specific roles. [14:35] - Scott shares experiences of individuals falling into roles they didn't initially choose, and the negative impact on job satisfaction. [15:32] - The importance of promoting teamwork, continuous learning, and adaptability over being the sole expert. [16:11] - Brian discusses the issue of knowledge silos and suggests a proactive approach within the team to mitigate risks and ensure knowledge sharing. [16:32] - The importance of managing resource fungibility and avoiding bottlenecks. [17:40] - Brian debunks the idea of job security for those deliberately hoarding knowledge and emphasizes the importance of staying marketable and adaptable. [18:52] - Scott highlights the consequences of being difficult to work with and shares the secret for long-term professional success. [20:00] - The Agile Mentors Podcast is brought to you by Mountain Goat Software and their Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® course. Plus, automatic enrollment in Mike Cohn’s Agile Mentors Community, including twelve months of ongoing coaching and support. To learn more, check out the Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule. [20:42] - How different roles, especially leads, should interact in a scrum team where equality is emphasized. [21:34] - The importance of a lead developer having a mindset focused on helping others succeed and empowering the team. [22:31] - Scott defines true technical leadership and the importance of empowering team members to scale workload and creating a culture of learning within the team. [23:59] - The impact of senior team members as "pollinators of learning." [24:56] - Brian defines a lead's role using sports analogies to illustrate leadership beyond individual excellence. [26:48] - Brian shares the ‘see one, do one, teach one model for successful leadership and teams. [27:57] - Leveling up expectations and helping and asking for help as a lead. [32:32] - Setting the example by what you do, not by what you say. [33:17] - The importance of leads in establishing culture. [34:53] - Brian shares a big thank you to Scott for joining him on the show. [35:29] - We invite you to subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts. Do you have feedback or a great idea for an episode of the show? Great! Just send us an email. [36:10] - If you’d like to continue this discussion, join the Agile Mentors Community. You get a year of free membership into that site by taking any class with Mountain Goat Software, such as CSM or CSPO. We also have Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® and Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner®, where we get right into the good stuff and have some deep discussions. We'd love to see you in one of Mountain Goat Software's classes, you can find the schedule here. References and resources mentioned in the show: Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Certified ScrumMaster Training and Scrum Certification Certified Scrum Product Owner Training Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

Embark on a captivating journey through the Agile Mentors Podcast in 2023 with Brian Milner. Explore a spectrum of Agile topics, from Scrum Master challenges to leadership insights. Join Brian for insightful summaries, memorable moments, and a walk through the rich tapestry of Agile wisdom on the show. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian embarks on a retrospective journey through the standout moments of the podcast in 2023. Explore carefully curated episodes, offering solutions to the common challenges and then delving into the world of Agile beyond software development. Listen in as Brian shares insightful summaries featuring memorable moments and a diverse landscape of Agile wisdom shared by his esteemed guests. Categorized into topics like Scrum Masters, Product Owners, Developers, Agile’s use beyond software, general career advice, and leadership and coaching, this retrospective is a treasure trove of practical advice, actionable insights, and real-world experiences. Tune in for an inspiring tour through the rich tapestry of the Agile Mentors Podcast 2023 episodes. Listen Now to Discover: [01:16] - Brian introduces the episode and invites listeners to join him in a retrospective of the year's episodes, highlighting ones that may have been missed or are hidden gems worth revisiting, which he will group by listener preferences and areas of interest. [02:39] - For Scrum Masters: Brian begins discussing the first episodes tailored for Scrum Masters, kicking things off with #47, "Exploring Lean Thinking and Agile Development," featuring guest Bob Payne, who shares insights into lean thinking, a foundational principle in agile development. Brian recommends this episode for Scrum Masters aiming to enhance their understanding of Agile's fundamentals. [03:34] - Episode #52, "The Birth of Agile: How 17 Adventurous Techies Changed the World," features Agile icon Mr. Jim Highsmith, one of the authors of the Agile Manifesto. Jim provides a glimpse into the past and offers insights into the future of Agile. [04:06] - Episode #59, "Revising the Scrum Guide," features Don McGreal, who played a key role in the guide's revision, shedding light on the thinking behind the revisions. [05:31] - In Episode #62, "Effective Sprint Goals," Maarten Dalmijn delves into effective crafting techniques and the finer details of achieving success with Sprint Goals. [06:12] - In Episode #69, "Should Scrum Masters Be Technical with Allison Pollard," Allison and Brian explore the question of whether Scrum Masters should possess technical skills. If you grapple with how technical a Scrum Master should be, this episode provides valuable insights and perspectives. [06:51] - In Episode #39, Mike Cohn, an authority on user stories, shares valuable insights into the art of crafting effective user stories. [07:15] - In Episode #65 with Randy Hale titled "Unlocking Lean Portfolio Management," Brian and Randy explore the concept of moving beyond a single-team focus as a product owner, delving into the realm of lean portfolio management building upon insights shared by Bob in episode #47. [07:50] - For Product Owners: Must listen bonus from last year, Episode #22, with Roman Pichler, who shares his insights on "How to Create Helpful Product Roadmaps," addressing challenges commonly faced by product owners in dealing with the nuanced aspects of their role. The episode covers strategies to avoid pitfalls, especially the dangers of rigidly locking into scope and schedule timelines. [08:54] - For Developers: Episode #33, "Mob Programming with Woody Zuill," introduces developers to the transformative practice of mob programming. Woody Zuill, a pioneer in this way of working, shares insights and a practical and thoughtful approach that makes it worth exploring. [10:00] - In Episode #48, Brian hosts a unique episode featuring the renowned Lisa Crispin and Janet Gregory, experts in Agile testing, in a show called "Holistic Agile Testing." This episode is particularly recommended for developers specializing in testing or involved in testing within a Scrum team. [11:00] - In Episode #54, "Unlocking Agile's Power in the World of Data Science," Brian and Lance Dacy explore the intersection of Agile methodologies and data science. The popularity of this episode prompted a sequel, Episode #63, on the fusion of Agile and data science. [11:58] - In the final developer-focused episode, Carlos Nunez joins Brian to delve into the world of DevOps. Carlos, a speaker at Agile 2023, shares insights on the significance of DevOps in today's Agile landscape, emphasizing DevOps as a means of empowerment rather than gatekeeping. [12:38] - Agile Outside of Software: Episode #32 with Cort Sharp focuses on Scrum in High School Sports—specifically high school swimming. Cort shares his experience applying Scrum principles to create practice schedules and routines for the swim team he coaches, providing valuable insights for those interested in using Agile beyond the software realm. [13:24] - In #38: "Using Agile for Social and Societal Transformation with Kubair Shirazee," Kubair walks listeners through how his nonprofit employs Agile methodologies to empower micro-entrepreneurs in developing countries. The episode highlights success stories, such as a barber's journey from a rented spot to owning a professional store, demonstrating Agile's transformative impact beyond the tech industry. [14:40] - Episode #45 with Scott Dunn explores "Overcoming Agile Challenges in Regulatory Environments." This crucial topic addresses the unique challenges faced in tightly regulated sectors like government, legal, and medical professions, offering a compelling dialogue on navigating regulatory hurdles within an agile framework. [16:00] - Episode #64 features John Grant discussing "How Agile Methodologies Reshape Legal Practices." This episode reveals the transformative impact of Agile in the legal profession and offers a unique perspective on Agile as a philosophy rather than just a practice, illustrating its broader applicability beyond the software realm. [17:00] - Today's episode is brought to you by Mountain Goat Software's Certified Scrum Product Owner (CSPO) course. This is a two-day training course taught by one of our certified Scrum trainers that teaches you how to use the product backlog as a tool for project success and how to respond to changes in business conditions by restructuring the product backlog. For the schedule, visit the Mountain Goat Training Schedule. [17:27] - General Career Advice: #34: "I'm Trained, Now What? with Julie Chickering" addresses the post-training phase for Scrum Masters and Product Owners. Julie shares insights on taking the next steps, implementing knowledge, and finding opportunities to build a resume in Agile roles. [18:29] - In #40: "Is it Time to Go Out on Your Own? Tips and Insights with Chris Li" Brian and Chris Li discuss considerations for those at later stages of their careers contemplating the transition to independent consulting. If you're pondering whether it's time to establish your consultancy, this episode provides valuable insights and considerations to guide your decision-making process. [19:00] - In #42: "The Importance of Self-Mastery with Bob Galen," Bob emphasizes the value of constant learning, even after years of experience, highlighting the importance of staying open to new discoveries and others' experiences. This episode serves as a compelling guide for personal growth and continuous improvement. [20:28] - Episode #46 with Christina Ambers: In this episode, Christina shares insights on "How to Assess Company Culture Before Accepting a Job Offer." As the year closes and people consider new job opportunities, Christina guides listeners through the crucial step of evaluating company culture and the importance of understanding if a company truly embraces Agile values or merely pays lip service to them. [21:14] - Episode #50 celebrated the milestone of the 50th episode. Lance Dacy was on the show to discuss "Choosing Your Path: Exploring the Roles of Scrum Master and Product Owner." The episode offers guidance for individuals at crossroads, helping them decide between Scrum Master and Product Owner roles. It serves as a valuable resource for those navigating career decisions in the Agile landscape. [22:13] - Leadership and Coaching: In the Leadership and Coaching category, Episode #37 features Brad Swanson discussing "Servant Leadership, Not Spineless Leadership." Brad dispels misconceptions and offers valuable insights into the essence of servant leadership, making it a compelling resource for those interested in effective leadership approaches. [23:28] - In Episode 41, Karim Harbott explores "Cultural Transformations in Organizations." The episode delves into the challenges of changing organizational culture, emphasizing the time and effort required beyond implementing specific practices. [24:00] - In "#44: Transformations Take People with Anu Smalley", Anu highlights the often-overlooked aspect of involving people in organizational transformations, shedding light on the human dynamics that can either support or hinder the process. [24:35] - In Episode #53, "Debunking Myths in Agile Coaching with Lucy O'Keefe," we tackle the common myths surrounding Agile coaching and provide insights on unlocking excellence in Agile coaching practices. [25:01] - Episode #66 is a solo episode where Brian shares his insights into navigating team conflicts, laying the foundation for understanding and mastering the essential skill of conflict navigation. [26:00] - In Episode #68, Brian hosts Mike Hall for a discussion of "The Pros and Cons and Real-World Applications of SAFe." Whether you're new to SAFe or deeply involved, Mike's expertise provides valuable perspectives and tips for navigating this framework. [26:42] - In Episode #70, Mike Cohn joins Brian to explore "The Role of a Leader in Agile." Here, Mike shares valuable insights based on his extensive experience, offering sound advice and perspective on the crucial role of leaders in self-organizing teams. [28:10] - Brian encourages listeners, especially newcomers, to explore relevant episodes based on their roles, with the goal being to offer practical advice and solutions on specific issues rather than lengthy discussions. All episodes are available in the show notes for convenient access. [29:33] - Brian expresses gratitude to listeners for the past year, reflecting on the unique nature of podcasting and letting listeners know he cherishes the encouragement and connections made, especially at events like Agile 2023. [31:00] - What do you want to hear in 2024? What are some of the hot-button topics that haven’t been covered on the show or guests you want to hear from? Send Brian an email with your ideas. [32:28] - And don’t forget to share and subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts so you never miss an episode. [33:00] - We also have our Agile Mentors Community, where we have discussions about every podcast [33:24] - Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season! We'll see you early again in 2024. References and resources mentioned in the show: #47: Exploring Lean Thinking in Agile Development with Bob Payne #52: The Birth of Agile: How 17 Adventurous Techies Changed the World with Jim Highsmith #59: Revising the Scrum Guide with Don McGreal #62: Effective Sprint Goals with Maarten Dalmijn #69: Should Scrum Masters Be Technical with Allison Pollard #39: The Art of Writing User Stories with Mike Cohn #65: Unlocking Lean Portfolio Management with Randy Hale #22: How to Create Helpful Product Roadmaps with Roman Pichler #33 Mob Programming with Woody Zuill #48: Holistic Agile Testing with Lisa Crispin and Janet Gregory #54 Unlocking Agile's Power in the World of Data Science #63: The Interplay Between Data Science and Agile with Lance Dacy #71: The World of DevOps with Carlos Nunez #32: Scrum in High School Sports with Cort Sharp #38: Using Agile for Social and Societal Transformation with Kubair Shirazee #45: Overcoming the Challenges of Agile in Regulatory Environments with Scott Dunn #64: How Agile Methodologies are Reshaping Legal Practices with John Grant #34: I'm Trained, Now What? with Julie Chickering #40: Is it Time to Go Out on Your Own? Tips and Insights with Chris Li #42: The Importance of Self-Mastery with Bob Galen #46: How to Assess Company Culture Before Accepting a Job Offer with Christina Ambers #50: Choosing Your Path: Exploring the Roles of Scrum Master and Product Owner with Lance Dacy #37: Servant Leadership, Not Spineless Leadership with Brad Swanson #41: Cultural Transformation in Organizations with Karim Harbott #53: Agile Coaching: Debunking Myths and Unlocking Excellence with Lucy O'Keefe #66: Successful Strategies for Navigating Team Conflicts #68: The Pros and Cons and Real World Applications of SAFe with Mike Hall #70: The Role of a Leader in Agile with Mike Cohn #49: Celebrating One Year: A Look Back at 50 Episodes of the Agile Mentor Podcast Certified Scrum Master Training and Scrum Certification Certified Scrum Product Owner Training Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work.

In a captivating interview with Scott Dunn, the visionary CEO of Noveon Magnetics, we unravel the compelling narrative that traces his remarkable journey from the quaint communities of Baltimore, Maryland to the forefront of manufacturing innovation in Texas. Scott's story is infused with a deep-seated passion for creating and an early immersion in the complexities of production. His career trajectory led him to establish Noveon Magnetics—a company poised to redefine the landscape of rare earth magnet manufacturing.

Sonia Davies, CEO of luxury tour operator Scott Dunn, talks with Alan Fine of Insider Travel Report about her company that started with ski trips in the Alps and has become a global brand with offices in London, Singapore, San Diego, and a new office in Manhattan. Davies explains what makes a Scott Dunn tour different, including a focus on customization, tailoring everything from scratch, and offering insider access through their many international partnerships. For more information, visit www.ScottDunn.com. If interested, the original video of this podcast can be found on the Insider Travel Report Youtube channel or by searching for the podcast's title on Youtube.  

The election result looks to have lit a fire under the property market. Real estate agents in Wellington say business has picked up since the 'blue wave' crashed through. National and ACT have both promised to phase in interest deductibility for landlords and make it easier for banks to lend money. City Sales sales manager Scott Dunn says people saw a change of Government coming. He says Auckland's market picked up about three weeks ago. "Our change happened about two or three weeks ago, we've had to double our auction offerings from the demand. From here until the end of the year, it's very, very busy." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The election result looks to have lit a fire under the property market. Real estate agents in Wellington say business has picked up since the 'blue wave' crashed through. National and ACT have both promised to phase in interest deductibility for landlords and make it easier for banks to lend money. City Sales sales manager Scott Dunn says people saw a change of Government coming. He says Auckland's market picked up about three weeks ago. "Our change happened about two or three weeks ago, we've had to double our auction offerings from the demand. From here until the end of the year, it's very, very busy." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Chet Baker: You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To; Bob Brookmeyer: Misty; Lee Konitz, Brad Mehldau, Charlie Haden, Paul Motian: I Fall In Love Too Easily; Kurt Elling, Charlie Hunter: Only The Lonely Woman; Wayne Escoffery, Gregory Porter: My Truth; Gerald Clayton, John Clayton: Paisajes: II. El Lago; Catherine Russell: I Want To Talk About You; Claire Martin, Scott Dunn, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra: It's Only A Paper Moon; Ranee Lee: Nature Boy. Lees verder →

Recess Therapy host Julian Shapiro-barnum (the creator behind the viral Corn Kid video) didn't achieve his success solo. Behind him, and a portfolio of several other creators in the industry's top 10%, sits management, a media consultant, and business partner all rolled into one. Today's guest, Scott Dunn of Doing Things Media, joins us to demystify the ever-important and changing creator economy - and where brands fit in this brave new world. One key point we address: what would motivate creators to promote a brand's product or business, when they can build their own? In this, expect insight on how to work within new creator expectations, what tips the scale between another average influencer and the next big thing, and what led to one kid's autotuned outburst shifting the global corn market.  Got a question or suggestion for the Social Minds podcast? Get in touch at social.minds@socialchain.com.   

In this episode of Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian, and Scott Dunn delve into the biggest question challenging teams right now: Should they return to the office or continue to embrace remote work? Join us as we navigate the complex factors in the office vs. remote debate. Overview Across industries, the call to return to the office is gaining momentum among management circles. In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian sits down with Scott Dunn, to unravel the layers of the working in the office versus remote settings debate. Listen in as they discuss various perspectives and considerations such as productivity, work-life balance, leadership styles, personality types, and even economic factors that influence the decision to have your team in the office or at home and what truly defines an effective workspace. Tune in as Scott and Brian share valuable insights into the ongoing debate that's reshaping the modern work landscape Listen Now to Discover: [01:31] - Brian welcomes guest Scott Dunn to the show to discuss their feelings toward management saying it’s time to return to the office post-Covid. [02:48] - Everyone’s affected in one way or another by the return to the office vs the prevailing “squishy” remote work policy. [04:01] - Where are you really the most productive? [04:16] - The basic needs of a generation: why “fully remote” is so appealing to Gen Z. [05:55] - Words straight from the Agile manifesto that supports in-person work and face-to-face communication. [06:44] - Quantifying what’s been lost from being face-to-face to being fully remote. [07:13] - How open working sessions and working side by side but independently boosts productivity. [07:41] - The tools that elevate remote collaboration and help facilitate small group dynamics when working remotely. [09:31] - Remote work and the allure of opening the talent pool combined with less turnover is a game-changer. [10:26] - How to run a focused remote work trial to assess applicants and gather insights. [10:58] - It's about more than just the comfort or preference of the leadership team. [11:23] - The most critical factor in determining if you have a hiring problem. [12:03] - How to deal with the issue of unequal contribution and improve team dynamics. [12:39] - Why managers have concerns about remote and how to alleviate them. [13:27] - How to enhance team accountability and empower team members by implementing measurable tracking to ensure everyone's pulling their weight. [14:48] - Drive positive change by experimenting and then taking action. [19:41] - The Agile Mentors Podcast is proudly sponsored by Mountain Goat Software with a range of training options, from Scrum certifications to skill enhancement, visit www.mountaingoatsoftware.com. [15:25] - How to balance support for employees with managerial accountability. [16:00] -The correlation between happy employees and productivity. Simon Sinek's insights highlight the connection between employee happiness and success. [17:07] - The vital (and challenging) responsibility of leaders to not only guide teams but define the expectations of the company culture. [19:00] - Open dialog and constructive conflict: Patrick Lencioni’s approach to vulnerable leadership for trust and psychological safety. [19:35] - How to spark healthy conflict and promote results. [20:00] - The importance of acknowledging personality differences, diverse working styles, and ideal working conditions. [20:37] - How to encourage open dialogue to address concerns and foster employee ownership. [21:14] - Leading the conversations about remote work to the right approach. [21:40] - Embracing personal user manuals for improved teamwork. [22:14] - How to embrace a balanced approach that values different work styles. [23:35] - How introverted and extroverted differences can impact experiences: How constructive feedback promotes awareness and inclusive adjustments. [26:16] - Why remote work decisions should be rooted in culture and individual fit rather than an across-the-board, fixed policy. [27:09] - How a hybrid approach accommodates diverse work styles. [27:29] - Remote teams, as shown by a Harvard Business Review study, can be more productive, especially when employees overwork to prove their worth from home. [28:11] - How to help employees align with teams that suit their work styles. [28:45] - Consider implementing a system where teams choose to be fully remote or not, allowing for a comprehensive evaluation of factors like productivity, team happiness, and innovation. [29:02] - How to help fully remote teams take ownership of their success. [29:32] - Weighing all the factors in the remote vs. in-person debate is essential, for aligning goals, ensuring meaningful decision-making, and opening the door to change. [30:33] - How the critically important remote work decision will impact future Scrum teams', economic considerations, and overall work-life balance. [31:10] - We don’t claim to have definitive answers but hope you enjoyed our conversation on navigating complex workplace challenges. [32:09] - Your feedback is valuable. We'd love your thoughts about today's show or any suggestions for future topics for the show. Email us by clicking here. [33:24] - We'd love to see you in one of Mountain Goat Software's classes, you can find the schedule here. If you enjoyed the episode, share it with others and subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts. References and resources mentioned in the show: Miro Start With Why by Simon Sinek The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni Join the Agile Mentors Community Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is the SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

* * Now you can subscribe to Harmonious World for special subscriber-only contentWelcome to the latest episode of Harmonious World, featuring a conversation with composer, arranger and pianist Scott Dunn. Together with vocalist Claire Martin, Scott has released I Watch You Sleep, a tribute to Sir Richard Rodney Bennett.It was wonderful to chat with Scott about this album and working with Claire Martin and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and commemorating the 10th anniversary of the death ofSir Richard Rodney Bennett. We discuss the arrangements and the recording, as well as how the tracks were selected - some by Bennett himself and some tunes that he particularly enjoyed himself.Thanks to Scott for allowing me to play extracts from I Watch You Sleep alongside our conversation, especially the incredible reimagining of It's Only A Paper Moon, which is definitely my favourite track.Thank you for listening to Harmonious World. Please rate, review and share and don't forget that you can also subscribe to support the show.Don't forget the Quincy Jones quote that sums up why I do this: "Imagine what a harmonious world it would be if every single person, both young and old, shared a little of what he is good at doing."Support the showThanks for listening to Harmonious World. You can support the show by becoming a subscriber.Please rate and review wherever you find your podcasts - it really helps.Follow me on instagram.com/hilseabrookFollow me on facebook.com/HilarySeabrookFreelanceWriterFollow me on twitter.com/hilaryrwriter

The Scott Dunn story is one of agility and resilience; how moving fast and making smart decisions in challenging times set the business up for long term success. 

It feels like every Friday brings another announcement of layoffs at some of the bigger tech firms in America.It affects me as the owner of a small business that depends on clients in those companies. I have to pay attention, and make moves to respond to changing market conditions in a way that makes sense for my organization.But it likely affects many of you as individuals as well. You have to pay attention to your company's financial health and be prepared to respond when things change.So it got me wondering, how do we inspect and adapt (on a personal level) to the changing circumstances that surround our jobs?Luckily for me, I work with some amazing agile coaches and trainers. And two of them, Brian Milner and Scott Dunn, tackled this very question on a podcast as part of the larger topic of how organizations respond to tough economic times.I want to share a couple of my takeaways with you.Scott gave this advice: Before you even think about a new role or a new company, start with an honest self-evaluation.  What are you passionate about? What makes you want to get out of bed in the morning? What are you good at? Where do you shine? Where are your weak spots? In which areas do you need to grow? Then, Scott added, in a job interview or when networking, be ready with stories about how you have applied what you are passionate about in your work and on your team. If you think about them beforehand, those stories will come easily to you. And they'll give people the confidence they need to take a chance on hiring, recommending, or promoting you.Also, find ways to shore up your weaknesses—now, before the next job opportunity comes your way. What can you study, which incremental improvements can you make, who can mentor you so that you proactively address those places where you need to improve?Come to think of it, that's good advice even when the economy is going well. Always be evaluating how you can lean into your strengths and improve your blind spots. Honest self-inspection will help you succeed in your career How to connect with AgileDad: - [website] ⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠ - [instagram] ⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠ - [facebook] ⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠ - [Linkedin] ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/⁠

Join Brian as he rediscovers and relives the most captivating topics, memorable guests, and impactful topics from the first year of the “Agile Mentors” podcast. Overview From deep dives into Agile methodologies and practical tips for using your knowledge to benefit others and foster change, the first 50 episodes of the “Agile Mentor” podcast have been filled with fascinating topics and memorable guests. In this episode, Brian Milner embarks on a retrospective journey through the inaugural year of the show. Listen in as he shares the real stars of the podcast, the moments that surprised him, those that took him out of his comfort zone, and the ones that inspired him to push to be better every day! Plus, what’s next for the show. Listen Now to Discover: [00:45] - Brian introduces the retrospective episode to celebrate one year and 50 episodes of the "Agile Mentors" podcast and share what's next. [01:54] - A thank you for YOUR role in the show. [02:17] - The role of marrying the right topic to the right guest. [02:56] - The format that allows listeners to choose the episodes that interest them the most. [04:03] - Pointing you toward the best of the best. Our first several episodes were focused on the Agile Framework and some core topics, including having Mike Cohn on to talk about the different roles and generally accepted practices. [05:13] - Sending out thanks to a few of our guests, including the trainers at Mountain Goat Software, including Lance Dacy. [05:45] - Kert Peterson joined us to share his knowledge, and Scott Dunn shared his insight from the product owner's perspective. [06:05] - On episode 16, Mitch Lacey joined us to discuss The Hidden Secret Ingredient And Julie Chickering brought a great perspective from a project management background and applying that to some of the stuff we've discussed here on the show. [06:39] - The time when one of my mentors joined us on the show to discuss transformation. [07:08] - Learning about coaching and marketing from the best! [07:27] - Roman Pitchler joined us to discuss product roadmaps and planning things from a product owner perspective. And John Miller shared about using Scrum in the education environment. [07:46] - On EP25, Henrik Nieberg came on and talked to us about scaling, and on EP27, Tricia Broderick walked us through leadership without blame. [08:18] - How Scrum can be applied outside of software development and mob programming. [08:42] - The key to working with humans. [09:03] - The episode that surprised Brian a little bit. [09:34] - Three episodes all about change: The first one was about how one organization uses Scrum to help impoverished micro-entrepreneurs succeed (and change their lives). The second featured Chris Li sharing his insight on how to know when it’s time to strike out on your own, and Karim Harbott walked us through the difficulty of transforming an organization's culture. [10:25] - The episode that inspired Brian to try to push in different ways to get better. And how to cultivate an Agile culture in a virtual world. [10:53] - Why transformations take people, how to assess a company’s culture before you accept their job offer, and lean thinking in Agile with Bob Payne. [11:49] - The real stars of the podcast. [12:30] - What’s ahead for the podcast? [13:02] - Stepping off the gas a bit. [13:45] - Virtual dial—targeted tips. [14:32] - The lifeblood of the “Agile Mentors” podcast. [15:06] - Mike Cohn and Brian are both presenting at Agile2023 in Orlando, July 24 through 28th. [15:39] - The most significant benefit of BIG conferences. [16:41] - Thank you for getting us to a year and 50 episodes! Join the Agile Mentors Community to continue the discussion. If you have topics for future episodes, email us by clicking here. And don’t forget to subscribe to the “Agile Mentors” Podcast on Apple Podcasts so you never miss an episode. References and resources mentioned in the show: Agile2023 | Orlando, Florida | Agile Alliance #1: Scrum vs Agile & Keys to Success with Mike Cohn #3: What Makes a Great Product Owner? With Lance Dacy #9: Scrum Artifacts with Kert Peterson #10: Why User Stories are the Best Way to Capture Requirements with Mike Cohn #17: Getting There From Here: Agile Transformations with David Hawks #18 Coaching in an Agile World with Lyssa Adkins #21: Agile Marketing Teams with Stacey Ackerman #22: How to Create Helpful Product Roadmaps with Roman Pichler #23 How Agile Works in Education with John Miller #25: Scaling with Henrik Kniberg #27: Leading Without Blame with Tricia Broderick #29: Influencing Up with Scott Dunn #32: Scrum in High School Sports with Cort Sharp #33 Mob Programming with Woody Zuill #34: I'm Trained, Now What? with Julie Chickering #37: Servant Leadership, Not Spineless Leadership with Brad Swanson #38: Using Agile for Social and Societal Transformation with Kubair Shirazee #40: Is it Time to Go Out on Your Own? Tips and Insights with Chris Li #41: Cultural Transformation in Organizations with Karim Harbott #42: The Importance of Self-Mastery with Bob Galen #43: Cultivating Agile Team Culture in a Virtual World with Richard Cheng #44: Transformations Take People with Anu Smalley #46: How to Assess Company Culture Before Accepting a Job Offer with Christina Ambers #47: Exploring Lean Thinking in Agile Development with Bob Payne Mountain Good Software's Certified Product Owner course Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work.

Album Commemorating the 10th Anniversary of the Death of Oscar-Nominated Composer Richard Rodney Bennett Marking the 10th anniversary of the death of celebrated composer Sir Richard Rodney Bennett, I Watch You Sleep is a tenderly curated album conceived by American conductor, arranger, and pianist Scott Dunn, featuring award-winning British jazz vocalist Claire Martin OBE, the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, produced by Grammy Award-winning Joshua Blair and Exec-produced by Richard's dear friend and publisher Gill Graham.Track Listing Album: I Watch You Sleep1 I Watch You Sleep R.R.Bennett/Joel Siegel 04:302 Autumn in New York Vernon Duke/Vernon Duke 05:373 It's Only a Paper Moon Harold Arlen/Yip Harburg/Billy Rose 04:264 For Ev'ry Man There's a Woman/ It Was Written In The StarsHarold Arlen/Leo Robin 03:355 Round About Vernon Duke/Ogden Nash 05:366 I'll Always Leave the Door A Little Open* Johnny Mandel/F.R.Underwood & R.R.Bennett 04:337 I Wish I'd Met You* Johnny Mandel/F.R.Underwood & R.R.Bennett 04:598 Don't Play Games With Love* R.R.Bennett/F.R.Underwood 05:139 Goodbye For Now R.R.Bennett/Charles Hart 04:3010 Early To Bed R.R.Bennett/F.R.Underwood 03:2711 I Never Went Away R.R.Bennett/R.R.Bennett 04:0712 Let's Go and Live in the Country R.R.Bennett/R.R.Bennett 02:5313 Not Exactly Paris Michael Leonard/Russell George 04:2414 My Ship* Kurt Weill/Ira Gershwin 03:5915 I Wonder What Became Of Me** Harold Arlen/Johnny Mercer 04:0116 It Was Written in the Stars** Harold Arlen/Leo Robin 05:13*All music arranged and orchestrated by Scott Dunn, except My Ship arranged by Scott Dunn and R.R.Bennett and I'll Always Leave the Door a Little Open, I Wish I'd Met You & Don't Play Games with Love arranged by Rob Barron with Scott Dunn**Scott Dunn, piano these two tracksHelp support our show by purchasing this album  at:Downloads (classicalmusicdiscoveries.store) Classical Music Discoveries is sponsored by Uber and Apple Classical. @CMDHedgecock#ClassicalMusicDiscoveries #KeepClassicalMusicAlive#CMDGrandOperaCompanyofVenice #CMDParisPhilharmonicinOrléans#CMDGermanOperaCompanyofBerlin#CMDGrandOperaCompanyofBarcelonaSpain#ClassicalMusicLivesOn#Uber#AppleClassical Please consider supporting our show, thank you!Donate (classicalmusicdiscoveries.store) staff@classicalmusicdiscoveries.comThis album is broadcasted with the permission of Crossover Media Music Promotion (Zachary Swanson and Amanda Bloom).

Join Brian and guest Scott Dunn as they share practical tips on navigating the challenges and achieving success in implementing Agile practices in regulatory environments on this episode of the "Agile Mentors" podcast. Overview: In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian and Scott Dunn delve into the challenges of implementing Agile practices in regulatory environments. They discuss the importance of finding ways to work within regulatory frameworks, building trust with stakeholders, and adapting Agile principles to fit the unique needs of the organization. Listen in to discover practical strategies for navigating regulatory hurdles, effective communication with regulators and customers, and building a culture of continuous improvement in highly regulated industries. Listen Now to Discover: [01:30] - Brian welcomes Scott Dunn to the Agile Mentors podcast. Scott is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience. Today's show is focused on the listener-inspired topic of implementing Agile in regulatory environments. (If you want to hear something specific, you can email us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com). [02:31] - Change is hard. Sometimes you must dig deeper into the reasons for resistance, as it may not always be related to regulatory requirements. [03:09] - Scott shares his experience working in a compliance-heavy environment, noting that the people responsible for compliance may not always fully understand the regulations. [04:16] - Scott emphasizes the importance of researching the regulations independently. In his experience, mindset and willingness are key factors in successfully implementing Agile in regulatory environments. [06:05] - Brian shares an anecdote about a pushback he received in a private class about whether Agile principles would work in the real world. [07:59] - Scott shares a recent experience on a call with a Prime contractor for the government, where they discussed the government's modernization efforts and their shift towards agile methodologies. He also mentions the GSA's internal agile group, which requires funding recipients to adopt agile practices. [09:19] - The issue of government contracts requiring specific roles rather than generalists and how this can limit the implementation of agile practices. [10:20] - Scott discusses how contracts in government organizations can limit the ability to fully implement Agile principles and how to create change within their organizations. [11:33] - Brian discusses the idea that a transformation is an ongoing process and not something that can be checked off as completed. He talks about the importance of continual learning. [12:01] - Brian introduces the podcast sponsor, Mountain Good Software's Advanced Certified Product Owner course. He explains how the course can help product owners increase their confidence, credibility, and value. [12:39] - The importance of collaboration over contract negotiation: Brian shares a story about Michael Sahota, who worked with the Canadian government on a bidding contract and revolutionized the government's fixed bid system. [15:07] - Brian explains that while regulatory environments require more documentation, examining whether certain documentation is necessary is essential. [15:54] - The need for empathy and understanding when working with regulatory environments. [16:26] - Small nudges = Significant change. [19:45] - The challenge of testing in regulatory environments, particularly regarding validation. Brian shares a story about a client with FAA regulations and how they tackled the issue, emphasizing the importance of collaboration. [23:20] - Scott suggests a pragmatic approach to achieving work goals, acknowledging the external constraints that may prevent perfection. [24:09] - Scott further explains that in some cases, there may be a sliding scale of achieving different levels of agility. Even small incremental steps towards agile implementation can provide benefits. [25:37] - Brian shares what he considers the #1 win in implementing Agile into these types of environments. [26:57] - What's possible? If you fast forward a year from now, what could be done now that gets us to the next step? [28:10] - Think about how you are showing up: the importance of facilitating idea-generating conversations and the type of leadership it takes to start those conversations and helps make the right thing happen. [29:30] - Scott and Brian discuss the quote, "if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room," and how important it is to be around people who can push you and help you grow. [30:52] - Join the Agile Mentors Community community to continue the discussion. If you have topics for future episodes, email us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com. References and resources mentioned in the show: Mountain Goat Software's Advanced Certified Product Owner course Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Agile Manifesto​​ Scrum Alliance Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

Join Brian and guest Scott Dunn as they share practical tips on navigating the challenges and achieving success in implementing Agile practices in regulatory environments on this episode of the "Agile Mentors" podcast. Overview: In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian and Scott Dunn delve into the challenges of implementing Agile practices in regulatory environments. They discuss the importance of finding ways to work within regulatory frameworks, building trust with stakeholders, and adapting Agile principles to fit the unique needs of the organization. Listen in to discover practical strategies for navigating regulatory hurdles, effective communication with regulators and customers, and building a culture of continuous improvement in highly regulated industries. Listen Now to Discover: [01:30] - Brian welcomes Scott Dunn to the Agile Mentors podcast. Scott is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience. Today's show is focused on the listener-inspired topic of implementing Agile in regulatory environments. (If you want to hear something specific, you can email us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com). [02:31] - Change is hard. Sometimes you must dig deeper into the reasons for resistance, as it may not always be related to regulatory requirements. [03:09] - Scott shares his experience working in a compliance-heavy environment, noting that the people responsible for compliance may not always fully understand the regulations. [04:16] - Scott emphasizes the importance of researching the regulations independently. In his experience, mindset and willingness are key factors in successfully implementing Agile in regulatory environments. [06:05] - Brian shares an anecdote about a pushback he received in a private class about whether Agile principles would work in the real world. [07:59] - Scott shares a recent experience on a call with a Prime contractor for the government, where they discussed the government's modernization efforts and their shift towards agile methodologies. He also mentions the GSA's internal agile group, which requires funding recipients to adopt agile practices. [09:19] - The issue of government contracts requiring specific roles rather than generalists and how this can limit the implementation of agile practices. [10:20] - Scott discusses how contracts in government organizations can limit the ability to fully implement Agile principles and how to create change within their organizations. [11:33] - Brian discusses the idea that a transformation is an ongoing process and not something that can be checked off as completed. He talks about the importance of continual learning. [12:01] - Brian introduces the podcast sponsor, Mountain Good Software's Advanced Certified Product Owner course. He explains how the course can help product owners increase their confidence, credibility, and value. [12:39] - The importance of collaboration over contract negotiation: Brian shares a story about Michael Sahota, who worked with the Canadian government on a bidding contract and revolutionized the government's fixed bid system. [15:07] - Brian explains that while regulatory environments require more documentation, examining whether certain documentation is necessary is essential. [15:54] - The need for empathy and understanding when working with regulatory environments. [16:26] - Small nudges = Significant change. [19:45] - The challenge of testing in regulatory environments, particularly regarding validation. Brian shares a story about a client with FAA regulations and how they tackled the issue, emphasizing the importance of collaboration. [23:20] - Scott suggests a pragmatic approach to achieving work goals, acknowledging the external constraints that may prevent perfection. [24:09] - Scott further explains that in some cases, there may be a sliding scale of achieving different levels of agility. Even small incremental steps towards agile implementation can provide benefits. [25:37] - Brian shares what he considers the #1 win in implementing Agile into these types of environments. [26:57] - What's possible? If you fast forward a year from now, what could be done now that gets us to the next step? [28:10] - Think about how you are showing up: the importance of facilitating idea-generating conversations and the type of leadership it takes to start those conversations and helps make the right thing happen. [29:30] - Scott and Brian discuss the quote, "if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room," and how important it is to be around people who can push you and help you grow. [30:52] - Join the Agile Mentors Community community to continue the discussion. If you have topics for future episodes, email us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com. References and resources mentioned in the show: Mountain Goat Software's Advanced Certified Product Owner course Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Agile Manifesto​​ Scrum Alliance Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

Linking the Travel Industry is a business travel podcast where we review the top travel industry stories that are posted on LinkedIn by LinkedIn members.  We curate the top posts and discuss with them with travel industry veterans in a live session with real audience members.  You can join the live recording session by visiting BusinessTravel360.com and registering for the next event.Your Hosts are Riaan van Schoor, Ann Cederhall and Aash Shravah.Stories covered on this session include -SAS - Scandinavian Airlines postpones it's controversial "wholesale" NDC model they came up with.Whilst not totally unexpected though still sad, the all-NDC airline Flyr filed for bankruptcy this week.Dennis Schaal from Skift writes one of the best travel related news items I've seen in a while, diving deep into what might be behind massive layoffs at Google Flight.Flight Centre Travel Group buys UK luxury tour operator Scott Dunn.A new LCC in Australia takes to the skies, complete with a wacky name - Bonza. Qatar Airways and Airbus settle their legal dispute about paint peeling on the A350s... Finally.Meanwhile (a new section being introduced this week)Virgin Atlantic is re-instating it's London/Shanghai service, whilst I saw British Airways were also resuming some routes to China.Apparently TripActions will rebrand themselves to NavanBonus Stories and Space News!You can subscribe to this podcast by searching 'BusinessTravel360' on Google Podcast, Apple Podcast, iHeart, Pandora, Spotify, Alexa or your favorite podcast player.This podcast was created, edited and distributed by BusinessTravel360.  Be sure to sign up for regular updates at BusinessTravel360.com - Enjoy!Support the show

Join Scott Dunn and Brian Milner as they discuss how to influence up, including the tools you can use to overcome difficulties and step into a partnership with the influential people in your organization for influence that creates lasting change. Overview While we all want to be heard, but we are sometimes met with leaders in our organization who are uninterested in our concerns or resistant to giving needed support. And sometimes, it's our approach that's causing our conversations to fall flat. In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian Milner and Scott Dunn share their real-world experience on what to do from your side to earn the right to influence up. They discuss what bosses, managers, leadership, stakeholders, and other higher-ups in the organization want and tools you can use to overcome the gaps and step into a partnership with the powerful people in your organization for lasting change. Listen now to discover: [01:06] - Today, Brian and Scott Dunn discuss influencing up. [01:40] - Scott shares how it's easier to influence if you meet people where they are. [03:46] - How to create a win-win by adjusting your communication style. [04:25] - Scott shares how to earn the right to influence up by making things happen on your side of the fence. [06:17] - How a mind of curiosity can help you negotiate your position when the higher-ups say they are 100% onboard with Agile except for… [08:22] - How to challenge management without losing your job or credibility. [10:05] - Why it's vital to look for opportunities to influence an organization at every level. [11:07] - Organizational taxes are the price of the privilege of working in an organization. [12:07] - Brian shares how even small iterations of Agile can move the needle in organizations. [13:09] - Why you need to think about your intentions when trying to influence up. [14:28] - Scott shares how you can introduce tenants of Agile to show people how to work differently, show up differently, and make a difference to improve an organization. [16:05] - How returning to values on the Agile Manifesto helps organizations create team dynamics that inspire respectful team dynamics. [18:59] - Scott shares how making your boss look good makes a big difference for everyone in the organization. [20:09] - Brian shares how to think like your boss so you can frame your approach in a way that speaks their language. [23:58] - The opportunity to 'choose your own adventure' within your organization through sharing information. [25:29] - How to use the power of story to give your boss the tools to help make the change to Agile. [27:11] - Scott shares how resources such as the Agile Mentors Community can help you delve deeper into community for insight into solving your influence issues. Listen in next time when Lance Dacy will be on the show. References and resources mentioned in the show Agile Manifesto #24: How Agile Organizations Respond to Challenging Economic Times with Scott Dunn #1: Scrum vs Agile & Keys to Success with Mike Cohn Lyssa Adkins How To Be Successful with Agile in Any Culture Christopher Avery - CEO & Founder -The Responsibility Company | LinkedIn Mountain Goat Software Agile Mentors Community Scrum Alliance Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we'd love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an agile subject you'd like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Please share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode's presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

Join Scott Dunn and Brian Milner as they discuss how to influence up, including the tools you can use to overcome difficulties and step into a partnership with the influential people in your organization for influence that creates lasting change. Overview While we all want to be heard, but we are sometimes met with leaders in our organization who are uninterested in our concerns or resistant to giving needed support. And sometimes, it's our approach that's causing our conversations to fall flat. In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian Milner and Scott Dunn share their real-world experience on what to do from your side to earn the right to influence up. They discuss what bosses, managers, leadership, stakeholders, and other higher-ups in the organization want and tools you can use to overcome the gaps and step into a partnership with the powerful people in your organization for lasting change. Listen now to discover: [01:06] - Today, Brian and Scott Dunn discuss influencing up. [01:40] - Scott shares how it's easier to influence if you meet people where they are. [03:46] - How to create a win-win by adjusting your communication style. [04:25] - Scott shares how to earn the right to influence up by making things happen on your side of the fence. [06:17] - How a mind of curiosity can help you negotiate your position when the higher-ups say they are 100% onboard with Agile except for… [08:22] - How to challenge management without losing your job or credibility. [10:05] - Why it's vital to look for opportunities to influence an organization at every level. [11:07] - Organizational taxes are the price of the privilege of working in an organization. [12:07] - Brian shares how even small iterations of Agile can move the needle in organizations. [13:09] - Why you need to think about your intentions when trying to influence up. [14:28] - Scott shares how you can introduce tenants of Agile to show people how to work differently, show up differently, and make a difference to improve an organization. [16:05] - How returning to values on the Agile Manifesto helps organizations create team dynamics that inspire respectful team dynamics. [18:59] - Scott shares how making your boss look good makes a big difference for everyone in the organization. [20:09] - Brian shares how to think like your boss so you can frame your approach in a way that speaks their language. [23:58] - The opportunity to 'choose your own adventure' within your organization through sharing information. [25:29] - How to use the power of story to give your boss the tools to help make the change to Agile. [27:11] - Scott shares how resources such as the Agile Mentors Community can help you delve deeper into community for insight into solving your influence issues. Listen in next time when Lance Dacy will be on the show. References and resources mentioned in the show Agile Manifesto #24: How Agile Organizations Respond to Challenging Economic Times with Scott Dunn #1: Scrum vs Agile & Keys to Success with Mike Cohn Lyssa Adkins How To Be Successful with Agile in Any Culture Christopher Avery - CEO & Founder -The Responsibility Company | LinkedIn Mountain Goat Software Agile Mentors Community Scrum Alliance Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we'd love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an agile subject you'd like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Please share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode's presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

Julie Chickering sits down with Brian to share the best gift books for the Scrum masters in your life. Overview We all have those books on our bookshelves that we’ve had for years and still refer back to time and time again, or that new title that we’ve just read that blows our mind with the way it makes a new concept more relatable. Julie Chickering is a Certified Scrum Trainer (CST), PMI Agile Certified Practitioner (PMI-ACP), and a traditional Project Management Professional (PMP). Today on the show, Julie joins Brian to discuss the most valuable books they’ve read, the lessons they’ve learned from them, and the best ones for giving to the Scrum Master in your life this holiday season. Listen now to discover: [01:06] - Today, Brian and Julie Chickering will be sharing the most valuable books we’ve read. [02:10] - Julie shares how a book called Two Beats Ahead is helping her learn to let go of her creations. [04:00] - Julie shares an interesting story of how Beyoncé invited musicians in for collaboration and how that opened her mind to learning from her community. [05:07] - Brian shares why Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great by Esther Derby and Diana Larson is his #1 book recommendation for Scrum Masters. [06:29] - Julie shares why she’s also a fan of Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great for the mix-and-mash recipe for creating menu selections. [08:06] - Julie shares why The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups insight into the three main things that make high-performing teams high-performing is her favorite book to give to the leaders on her list. [10:36] - Brian shares the three things from Daniel Pink’s Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us that align with Scrum. [12:34] - Julie shares how she learned to flip the script, start with the hard topics in a conversation, and finish with the positive from Daniel Pink, as included in his book, When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing. [15:53] - Brian shares why Dan Pink’s books are most enjoyable via audio. [16:15] - Julie shares how a podcast interview with author Scott Sonenshein led her to his book called Stretch: Unlock the Power of Less -and Achieve More Than You Ever Imagined, which helps teams unlock their potential to achieve more. [17:11] - Brian shares Frédéric Laloux's concept of the different colors of organizations as laid out in his book called Reinventing Organizations: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage of Human Consciousness and how we can better enable change in organizations. [18:57] - Julie shares a book she recommends in Scrum Master class that’s great for sports fans called The Captain Class by Sam Walker, which walks the reader through what makes great sports teams great. [22:15] - Brian shares why sports analogies are great for teaching Scrum. [23:28] - Julie shares how even the Rolling Stones delve deep into figuring out how to improve. [24:30] - Why retrospectives are a great tool for improving the outcome of any mission. [28:25] - Brian shares why we still need to adjust to the current climate, even when the goal remains the same. [30:11] - Brian shares books by recent guests on the show, including Lead Without Blame: Building Resilient Learning Teams by Tricia Broderick, Strategise by Roman Pichler and Coaching Agile Teams: A Companion for Scrum Masters, Agile Coaches, and Project Managers in Transition (Addison-Wesley Signature Series (Cohn)) by Lyssa Adkins. Listen in next time when Scott Dunn will be on the show. References and resources mentioned in the show Two Beats Ahead by Panos A. Panay and R. Michael Hendrix Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great by Esther Derby, Diana Larsen The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups by Daniel Coyle DRIVE by Daniel Pink | Animated Core Message Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel Pink When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing by Daniel Pink The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward by Daniel Pink Stretch: Unlock the Power of Less -and Achieve More Than You Ever Imagined by Scott Sonenshein Reinventing Organizations: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage of Human Consciousness by Frédéric Laloux The Captain Class by Sam Walker Lead Without Blame: Building Resilient Learning Teams by Tricia Broderick Strategise by Roman Pichler Coaching Agile Teams: A Companion for Scrum Masters, Agile Coaches, and Project Managers in Transition (Addison-Wesley Signature Series (Cohn)) by Lyssa, Adkins Mountain Goat Software Agile Mentors Community Scrum Alliance Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we'd love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an agile subject you'd like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Please share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode's presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Julie Chickering is the brains and brawn behind JC Agile Consulting, believes that Lean and Agile practices are packed with potential — to enable positive culture change, business agility, and breakthrough results. Julie is a past president and board member of the Agile Project Management Network (APLN), a Certified Scrum Trainer (CST), PMI Agile Certified Practitioner (PMI-ACP), as well as a traditional Project Management Professional (PMP).

Julie Chickering sits down with Brian to share the best gift books for the Scrum masters in your life. Overview We all have those books on our bookshelves that we’ve had for years and still refer back to time and time again, or that new title that we’ve just read that blows our mind with the way it makes a new concept more relatable. Julie Chickering is a Certified Scrum Trainer (CST), PMI Agile Certified Practitioner (PMI-ACP), and a traditional Project Management Professional (PMP). Today on the show, Julie joins Brian to discuss the most valuable books they’ve read, the lessons they’ve learned from them, and the best ones for giving to the Scrum Master in your life this holiday season. Listen now to discover: [01:06] - Today, Brian and Julie Chickering will be sharing the most valuable books we’ve read. [02:10] - Julie shares how a book called Two Beats Ahead is helping her learn to let go of her creations. [04:00] - Julie shares an interesting story of how Beyoncé invited musicians in for collaboration and how that opened her mind to learning from her community. [05:07] - Brian shares why Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great by Esther Derby and Diana Larson is his #1 book recommendation for Scrum Masters. [06:29] - Julie shares why she’s also a fan of Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great for the mix-and-mash recipe for creating menu selections. [08:06] - Julie shares why The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups insight into the three main things that make high-performing teams high-performing is her favorite book to give to the leaders on her list. [10:36] - Brian shares the three things from Daniel Pink’s Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us that align with Scrum. [12:34] - Julie shares how she learned to flip the script, start with the hard topics in a conversation, and finish with the positive from Daniel Pink, as included in his book, When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing. [15:53] - Brian shares why Dan Pink’s books are most enjoyable via audio. [16:15] - Julie shares how a podcast interview with author Scott Sonenshein led her to his book called Stretch: Unlock the Power of Less -and Achieve More Than You Ever Imagined, which helps teams unlock their potential to achieve more. [17:11] - Brian shares Frédéric Laloux's concept of the different colors of organizations as laid out in his book called Reinventing Organizations: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage of Human Consciousness and how we can better enable change in organizations. [18:57] - Julie shares a book she recommends in Scrum Master class that’s great for sports fans called The Captain Class by Sam Walker, which walks the reader through what makes great sports teams great. [22:15] - Brian shares why sports analogies are great for teaching Scrum. [23:28] - Julie shares how even the Rolling Stones delve deep into figuring out how to improve. [24:30] - Why retrospectives are a great tool for improving the outcome of any mission. [28:25] - Brian shares why we still need to adjust to the current climate, even when the goal remains the same. [30:11] - Brian shares books by recent guests on the show, including Lead Without Blame: Building Resilient Learning Teams by Tricia Broderick, Strategise by Roman Pichler and Coaching Agile Teams: A Companion for Scrum Masters, Agile Coaches, and Project Managers in Transition (Addison-Wesley Signature Series (Cohn)) by Lyssa Adkins. Listen in next time when Scott Dunn will be on the show. References and resources mentioned in the show Two Beats Ahead by Panos A. Panay and R. Michael Hendrix Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great by Esther Derby, Diana Larsen The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups by Daniel Coyle DRIVE by Daniel Pink | Animated Core Message Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel Pink When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing by Daniel Pink The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward by Daniel Pink Stretch: Unlock the Power of Less -and Achieve More Than You Ever Imagined by Scott Sonenshein Reinventing Organizations: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage of Human Consciousness by Frédéric Laloux The Captain Class by Sam Walker Lead Without Blame: Building Resilient Learning Teams by Tricia Broderick Strategise by Roman Pichler Coaching Agile Teams: A Companion for Scrum Masters, Agile Coaches, and Project Managers in Transition (Addison-Wesley Signature Series (Cohn)) by Lyssa, Adkins Mountain Goat Software Agile Mentors Community Scrum Alliance Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we'd love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an agile subject you'd like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Please share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode's presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Julie Chickering is the brains and brawn behind JC Agile Consulting, believes that Lean and Agile practices are packed with potential — to enable positive culture change, business agility, and breakthrough results. Julie is a past president and board member of the Agile Project Management Network (APLN), a Certified Scrum Trainer (CST), PMI Agile Certified Practitioner (PMI-ACP), as well as a traditional Project Management Professional (PMP).

There's not just one way to create a product that sells. Just ask Bryan Reisberg and Scott Dunn of Little Chonk. Bryan needed a safe way to transport his corgi Maxine to his office in New York City, but there just wasn't a durable, safe dog backpack on the market. Through trial and error - and a little ingenuity too - the duo launched their company last year and are seeing strong sales numbers by leveraging Maxine's thriving social media accounts. This episode was recorded live at the 2022 Corgi Beach Day in Huntington Beach. Enjoy!For more on top tips from founders, check out our blog: https://www.shopify.com/blog/topics/podcasts

Scott Dunn joins Brian to talk about how Agile teams and organizations respond in difficult economic times. Overview Right now, the word recession is being bandied about, and big companies like Apple and Facebook are already beginning to scale back. But economic downturns can present opportunities for the right individuals. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience. Today on the show, Scott joins Brian to discuss why now is the moment to hone in on your mission and determine your job market value and how Agile training can prepare you for any opportunity that comes your way. Listen now to discover: [01:52] - Brian shares how the word recession triggers companies to batten down the hatches. [03:19] - How leaning into Agile in an organization creates a natural operating cost reduction. [04:52] - Studies show organizations that invest during recessions are better positioned at the back end of it to, you know, accelerate like a rocket out of it. [06:55] - Scott explains how the Japanese concept of ‘danger opportunity’ offers teams a chance ‘to really do Agile’ and operate efficiently with less. [9:34] - How difficult times help companies prioritize and hone in on their mission and vision and stop trying to be everything to everybody. [12:57] - How organizations create unease and lack of employee trust. [14:46] - How Agile can help workplaces bring humanity back when responding to change. [16:18] -Scott shares a conversation with his daughter about voting with your feet and your values. [19:16] -Scott explains why companies need to invest in top talent to lower their technical debt. [20:17] - Why times like these require ruthlessness in proving out your theories. [22:10] - Scott shares why down economic times are opportunities in disguise for individuals to determine the types of environments they want to help flourish. [25:13] - Determining your job market value and the importance of looking at the total package of an opportunity. [28:30] -Is it really Agile, or is it Agile in name only? [31:33] - How taking classes at Mountain Goat can prepare you to bring your knowledge and skills to any opportunity. Listen next time when we'll be discussing… Scaling with Henrik Kniberg. References and resources mentioned in the show Mountain Goat Software Agile Mentors Community Scrum Alliance Jim Collins The Hedgehog Concept Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we'd love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an agile subject you'd like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Please share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode's presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

Scott Dunn joins Brian to talk about how Agile teams and organizations respond in difficult economic times. Overview Right now, the word recession is being bandied about, and big companies like Apple and Facebook are already beginning to scale back. But economic downturns can present opportunities for the right individuals. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience. Today on the show, Scott joins Brian to discuss why now is the moment to hone in on your mission and determine your job market value and how Agile training can prepare you for any opportunity that comes your way. Listen now to discover: [01:52] - Brian shares how the word recession triggers companies to batten down the hatches. [03:19] - How leaning into Agile in an organization creates a natural operating cost reduction. [04:52] - Studies show organizations that invest during recessions are better positioned at the back end of it to, you know, accelerate like a rocket out of it. [06:55] - Scott explains how the Japanese concept of ‘danger opportunity’ offers teams a chance ‘to really do Agile’ and operate efficiently with less. [9:34] - How difficult times help companies prioritize and hone in on their mission and vision and stop trying to be everything to everybody. [12:57] - How organizations create unease and lack of employee trust. [14:46] - How Agile can help workplaces bring humanity back when responding to change. [16:18] -Scott shares a conversation with his daughter about voting with your feet and your values. [19:16] -Scott explains why companies need to invest in top talent to lower their technical debt. [20:17] - Why times like these require ruthlessness in proving out your theories. [22:10] - Scott shares why down economic times are opportunities in disguise for individuals to determine the types of environments they want to help flourish. [25:13] - Determining your job market value and the importance of looking at the total package of an opportunity. [28:30] -Is it really Agile, or is it Agile in name only? [31:33] - How taking classes at Mountain Goat can prepare you to bring your knowledge and skills to any opportunity. Listen next time when we'll be discussing… Scaling with Henrik Kniberg. References and resources mentioned in the show Mountain Goat Software Agile Mentors Community Scrum Alliance Jim Collins The Hedgehog Concept Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we'd love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an agile subject you'd like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Please share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode's presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum.

Dream Entertainment is perhaps the most successful entertainment company in Jamaica. So if you're looking to start a party planning or event promotion business, you could definitely learn a thing or two from them. Joining me now is Managing Director of Dream Entertainment, Scott Dunn. https://kalilahreynolds.com/programmes/moneymoves Visit EXIM Bank's Business Advisory Service at: https://eximbankja.com IG: @eximbankja Giving you the tools to grow your business! *********** --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/kalilahrey/support

Scott Dunn joins Brian to talk about what it means to be product-centric Overview Being product-centric has become a recent buzzword and objective for companies. But what does it mean? Is it the next stage of becoming agile? Or is it something that should drive an agile transformation in the first place? In this episode Scott and Brian discuss their definitions of what it means to be product-centric, and whether this is different to being customer-focused. They also look at the limitations that can stop teams from being more focused on the customer and long-term product value, such as being forced to fight those daily fires. Listen now to discover: 00:23 - What does the term product-centric mean? 07:13 - Is there a difference between being product-centric and customer focused? 14:47 - Are nonprofits customer-focused entities? 22:02 - Does product-centric mean putting quality first? 28:23 - How does a disconnect between leadership and teams affect things? Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Next time, I’ll be answering questions you’ve sent into the show as well as addressing other common agile questions. References and resources mentioned in the show Impact Mapping and Story Mapping The Scrum Guide Kano Model for prioritization Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Certified Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience in management, project management (PMP), engagement management, and software development (MCSD). He is passionate about strengths-based teams and a solutions-based approach to people and organizational issues. Show edited by Rhett Gill.

Scott Dunn joins Brian to talk about what it means to be product-centric Overview Being product-centric has become a recent buzzword and objective for companies. But what does it mean? Is it the next stage of becoming agile? Or is it something that should drive an agile transformation in the first place? In this episode Scott and Brian discuss their definitions of what it means to be product-centric, and whether this is different to being customer-focused. They also look at the limitations that can stop teams from being more focused on the customer and long-term product value, such as being forced to fight those daily fires. Listen now to discover: 00:23 - What does the term product-centric mean? 07:13 - Is there a difference between being product-centric and customer focused? 14:47 - Are nonprofits customer-focused entities? 22:02 - Does product-centric mean putting quality first? 28:23 - How does a disconnect between leadership and teams affect things? Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Next time, I’ll be answering questions you’ve sent into the show as well as addressing other common agile questions. References and resources mentioned in the show Impact Mapping and Story Mapping The Scrum Guide Kano Model for prioritization Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Certified Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience in management, project management (PMP), engagement management, and software development (MCSD). He is passionate about strengths-based teams and a solutions-based approach to people and organizational issues. Show edited by Rhett Gill.

Lance Dacy joins Brian to dig into cross-functionality. Overview You will often hear people say that Scrum teams are cross-functional. But what do we mean when we say that? Are we talking about a jack of all trades but master of none? Do we want team members who can do anything? How does a cross-functional team actually work together and what should we do as agilists to support and nurture cross-functionality in our teams? Join as we discuss these and other aspects of cross-functional teams. Listen now to discover: 02:00 Lance tells us how he defines cross-functional teams 04:34 Brian compares cross-functional teams to the A-Team 08:58 Lance talks about generalists vs specialists 12:39 Brian talks about T-shaped individuals 18:05 Brian discusses the Equity Couch 24:10 Brian describes the Market of Skills tool 27:45 Lance talks about personality profiles 29:20 Brian asks Lance about how to handle cross-functionality on specialist teams Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Scott Dunn joins us again to discuss the term ‘product-centric.’ References and resources mentioned in the show The A-Team Market of Skills by Lyssa Adkins OSEMN Process What does Scrum mean by Cross-functional? Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Lance Dacy is a Certified Scrum Trainer®, Certified Scrum Professional®, Certified ScrumMaster®, and Certified Scrum Product Owner®. Lance brings a great personality and servant heart to his workshops. He loves seeing people walk away with tangible and practical things they can do with their teams straight away. Show edited by Rhett Gill.

Lance Dacy joins Brian to dig into cross-functionality. Overview You will often hear people say that Scrum teams are cross-functional. But what do we mean when we say that? Are we talking about a jack of all trades but master of none? Do we want team members who can do anything? How does a cross-functional team actually work together and what should we do as agilists to support and nurture cross-functionality in our teams? Join as we discuss these and other aspects of cross-functional teams. Listen now to discover: 02:00 Lance tells us how he defines cross-functional teams 04:34 Brian compares cross-functional teams to the A-Team 08:58 Lance talks about generalists vs specialists 12:39 Brian talks about T-shaped individuals 18:05 Brian discusses the Equity Couch 24:10 Brian describes the Market of Skills tool 27:45 Lance talks about personality profiles 29:20 Brian asks Lance about how to handle cross-functionality on specialist teams Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Scott Dunn joins us again to discuss the term ‘product-centric.’ References and resources mentioned in the show The A-Team Market of Skills by Lyssa Adkins OSEMN Process What does Scrum mean by Cross-functional? Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Lance Dacy is a Certified Scrum Trainer®, Certified Scrum Professional®, Certified ScrumMaster®, and Certified Scrum Product Owner®. Lance brings a great personality and servant heart to his workshops. He loves seeing people walk away with tangible and practical things they can do with their teams straight away. Show edited by Rhett Gill.

Join Brian Milner and guest co-host Scott Dunn as they discuss why the retrospective is an important part of agile and how to use this meeting to help teams to improve continuously. Overview In this episode, Brian Milner is joined by guest co-host Scott Dunn, Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer, to get insights into delivering retrospective sessions that energize and inform the whole team — while ensuring they are effective at meeting goals. A sprint retrospective is a great way for teams to reflect on the previous sprint but this meeting can become stale if you sleepwalk your way through the same agenda every time. Brian and Scott discuss the Scrum Master’s responsibility to take ownership of the retrospective and the importance of developing a toolkit of techniques that you can use and adapt to engage and motivate your teams. There are many great retrospective ideas in the Agile community, including variations and additions on the basic questions and creative facilitation techniques. Sharing their experiences and offering advice to Scrum Masters on how to empower their teams, drive participation and unlock creativity, Brian and Scott discuss the importance of innovation and how to establish a culture of trust and accomplishment to maximize the value of this meeting. Listen now to discover: · 00:03:00 - Why Scrum Masters need to establish safety for retrospectives to work · 00:07:00 - How to structure a retrospective to motivate teams · 00:09:00 - Why it is not the Scrum Master’s responsibility to resolve all impediments · 00:11:00 - How to empower your team to have more agency over the work and make a difference as team members · 00:13:30 - Why Scrum Masters need to take ownership of the retrospective · 00:19:00 - Why you need to change up your retrospective to engage your team · 00:19:30 - How to conduct fun and engaging retrospectives · 00:23:58 - How to influence and shape your team’s culture · 00:26:10 - How to get value from a retrospective with an introverted team References and resources mentioned in the show · Strengths-based Leadership - Gallup · Training from the Back of the Room – Sharon Bowman · Marcus Buckingham · Agile Retrospectives - Making Good Teams Great - Esther Derby and Diana Larson Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. · Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. · Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Certified Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience in management, project management (PMP), engagement management, and software development (MCSD). He is passionate about strengths-based teams and a solutions-based approach to people and organizational issues.

Join Brian Milner and guest co-host Scott Dunn as they discuss why the retrospective is an important part of agile and how to use this meeting to help teams to improve continuously. Overview In this episode, Brian Milner is joined by guest co-host Scott Dunn, Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer, to get insights into delivering retrospective sessions that energize and inform the whole team — while ensuring they are effective at meeting goals. A sprint retrospective is a great way for teams to reflect on the previous sprint but this meeting can become stale if you sleepwalk your way through the same agenda every time. Brian and Scott discuss the Scrum Master’s responsibility to take ownership of the retrospective and the importance of developing a toolkit of techniques that you can use and adapt to engage and motivate your teams. There are many great retrospective ideas in the Agile community, including variations and additions on the basic questions and creative facilitation techniques. Sharing their experiences and offering advice to Scrum Masters on how to empower their teams, drive participation and unlock creativity, Brian and Scott discuss the importance of innovation and how to establish a culture of trust and accomplishment to maximize the value of this meeting. Listen now to discover: · 00:03:00 - Why Scrum Masters need to establish safety for retrospectives to work · 00:07:00 - How to structure a retrospective to motivate teams · 00:09:00 - Why it is not the Scrum Master’s responsibility to resolve all impediments · 00:11:00 - How to empower your team to have more agency over the work and make a difference as team members · 00:13:30 - Why Scrum Masters need to take ownership of the retrospective · 00:19:00 - Why you need to change up your retrospective to engage your team · 00:19:30 - How to conduct fun and engaging retrospectives · 00:23:58 - How to influence and shape your team’s culture · 00:26:10 - How to get value from a retrospective with an introverted team References and resources mentioned in the show · Strengths-based Leadership - Gallup · Training from the Back of the Room – Sharon Bowman · Marcus Buckingham · Agile Retrospectives - Making Good Teams Great - Esther Derby and Diana Larson Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. · Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. · Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Certified Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience in management, project management (PMP), engagement management, and software development (MCSD). He is passionate about strengths-based teams and a solutions-based approach to people and organizational issues.

Join Brian Milner and Julie Chickering as they discuss the true purpose of the Sprint Review and why it is a mistake to call this event a ‘demo’. Overview Brian Milner talks with Julie Chickering about Sprint Reviews, addressing the myth that the Sprint Review is primarily an opportunity to ‘demo’ the increment to stakeholders. As an experienced Project Management Professional, Julie shares her perspective on the Sprint Reviews from a project management viewpoint. She shares different ways to approach this event and offers advice on what components are needed for a good quality Sprint Review. Brian and Julie agree that the Sprint Review meeting is probably the most important Scrum event for product people as it encourages collaboration and generates the feedback required to increase the chances of creating a successful product. However, opinions on who should attend the meeting, how it should be run, and how to collect relevant feedback can change quite considerably from one organization to another. Are you holding Sprint Reviews every Sprint? Do you have Stakeholders in your Sprint Reviews? Are you getting valuable feedback from your Stakeholders in your Sprint Reviews? Brian and Julie discuss why you should be answering “Yes” to each of these questions and share their tips on how to make your Sprint Review more effective. Listen now to discover: · 00:06:06 - How the Scrum Review saves time in the long run · 00:10:20 - The benefits of reducing the distance between the developer and the end user · 00:11:49 - The Stakeholder feedback window – how long should feedback take? · 00:12:19 - Why you should never skip a Sprint Review · 00:12:30 - Why Stakeholders need to be constantly engaged for a Scrum team to be successful · 00:13:49 - The integral role of the Product Owner in Sprint Reviews · 00:17:05 - Why you shouldn’t cancel a Sprint Review even if work isn’t “done” · 00:21:36 - Why you need to clarity the definition of “done” to Stakeholders · 00:27:19 - Tips and feedback to anyone wanting to improve their Sprint Reviews · 00:31:02 - The importance of preparation before Sprint Reviews · 00:34:29 - Methods of collecting feedback · 00:39:32 - The best order for a Sprint review · 00:41:36 - How to coach stakeholders to increase team productivity Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Sprint Retrospectives with guest co-host Scott Dunn. You’ll learn the primary importance of this Scrum event and how to run effective and engaging Sprint Retrospective meetings that boost productivity and lead to positive change. References and resources mentioned in the show · Daniel Pink – When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Take a second to leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Julie Chickering is a certified Scrum Trainer as well as a CST, PMP, PMI-ACP CSM, CSPO, and Path to CSP Educator. She believes that Agile practices are packed with potential - to enable business agility, and breakthrough results. Julie loves to help people implement agile even when the environments are messy, people are complicated, and situations are challenging. She brings real-world experience working with people at all levels to adopt and roll out realistic Agile strategies organization-wide.

Join Brian Milner and Julie Chickering as they discuss the true purpose of the Sprint Review and why it is a mistake to call this event a ‘demo’. Overview Brian Milner talks with Julie Chickering about Sprint Reviews, addressing the myth that the Sprint Review is primarily an opportunity to ‘demo’ the increment to stakeholders. As an experienced Project Management Professional, Julie shares her perspective on the Sprint Reviews from a project management viewpoint. She shares different ways to approach this event and offers advice on what components are needed for a good quality Sprint Review. Brian and Julie agree that the Sprint Review meeting is probably the most important Scrum event for product people as it encourages collaboration and generates the feedback required to increase the chances of creating a successful product. However, opinions on who should attend the meeting, how it should be run, and how to collect relevant feedback can change quite considerably from one organization to another. Are you holding Sprint Reviews every Sprint? Do you have Stakeholders in your Sprint Reviews? Are you getting valuable feedback from your Stakeholders in your Sprint Reviews? Brian and Julie discuss why you should be answering “Yes” to each of these questions and share their tips on how to make your Sprint Review more effective. Listen now to discover: · 00:06:06 - How the Scrum Review saves time in the long run · 00:10:20 - The benefits of reducing the distance between the developer and the end user · 00:11:49 - The Stakeholder feedback window – how long should feedback take? · 00:12:19 - Why you should never skip a Sprint Review · 00:12:30 - Why Stakeholders need to be constantly engaged for a Scrum team to be successful · 00:13:49 - The integral role of the Product Owner in Sprint Reviews · 00:17:05 - Why you shouldn’t cancel a Sprint Review even if work isn’t “done” · 00:21:36 - Why you need to clarity the definition of “done” to Stakeholders · 00:27:19 - Tips and feedback to anyone wanting to improve their Sprint Reviews · 00:31:02 - The importance of preparation before Sprint Reviews · 00:34:29 - Methods of collecting feedback · 00:39:32 - The best order for a Sprint review · 00:41:36 - How to coach stakeholders to increase team productivity Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Sprint Retrospectives with guest co-host Scott Dunn. You’ll learn the primary importance of this Scrum event and how to run effective and engaging Sprint Retrospective meetings that boost productivity and lead to positive change. References and resources mentioned in the show · Daniel Pink – When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Take a second to leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Julie Chickering is a certified Scrum Trainer as well as a CST, PMP, PMI-ACP CSM, CSPO, and Path to CSP Educator. She believes that Agile practices are packed with potential - to enable business agility, and breakthrough results. Julie loves to help people implement agile even when the environments are messy, people are complicated, and situations are challenging. She brings real-world experience working with people at all levels to adopt and roll out realistic Agile strategies organization-wide.

In this episode, Scott Dunn and Brian review the key aspects of leading an effective sprint planning meeting: its purpose, how it works, who attends, and ensuring yours are achieving the desired result. Overview Brian Milner and Scott Dunn discuss product ownership and leading a sprint planning meeting. 2020’s Scrum Guide introduced new guidance: sprint planning must go beyond the WHAT and the HOW of product backlog items to the WHY, specifically why is the sprint valuable? Scott shares his firsthand experience of how to run an effective sprint planning meeting, including focusing on the ‘Why?’ plus practical advice on increasing an agile team’s motivation and engagement. You’ll learn why the product owner-development team relationship is the linchpin of sprint-planning success and the primacy of preparation, forward vision, and a value-driven mindset. Final advice includes better communication of expectations with distributed team members and aligning with the evolving nature of the tech landscape through trying new approaches. Listen now to discover: · 04:00 – How asking ‘Why?’ adds value and motivates, empowers, and engages teams · 07:00 – Why the relationship between the product owner and development team is the linchpin of success · 10:00 – What level of detail Scrum teams should be striving for during a sprint planning meeting · 12:00 – The purpose of a sprint review and what needs to change in order to support inclusive collaboration · 14:00 – How to leave room for discovery with minimal documentation · 15:52 – How flexible requirements and ongoing conversation enable collaboration and employee engagement · 17:00 – How to remain focused on driving value when facilitating sprint planning meetings · 19:00 – The mindset shift required to define value through conversation and negotiation · 21:30 – Craig Larman methodology - culture follows structure · 22:00 – Why assigning work during sprint planning kills collaboration and team spirit · 26:00 – The purpose of the sprint planning meeting and how to maximize the time allocated · 27:30 – The restrictions of forward planning and how to find confidence in emergent architecture to align with the changing nature of tech organizations · 30:00 – How product owners in sprint planning can improve efficiency through preparation · 34:00 – Tips for distributed teams: adapting to remote working, improving communication, and more effective sprint planning · 40:30 – The ‘Inspect and Adapt’ concept: the importance of trying new approaches and implementing new methods. Listen next time when we’ll be discussing . . . Daily scrums with certified Scrum trainer, Julie Chickering. You’ll learn the true purpose of this 15-minute time-boxed event as well as common pitfalls and mistakes to avoid in this meeting. References and resources mentioned in the show: · Larman's Laws of Organizational Behavior · David Hawks Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. · Enjoyed what you heard today? Take a second to leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. · Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Certified Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience in management, project management (PMP), engagement management, and software development (MCSD). He is passionate about strengths-based teams and a solutions-based approach to people and organizational issues. Show edited by Rhett Gill.

In this episode, Scott Dunn and Brian review the key aspects of leading an effective sprint planning meeting: its purpose, how it works, who attends, and ensuring yours are achieving the desired result. Overview Brian Milner and Scott Dunn discuss product ownership and leading a sprint planning meeting. 2020’s Scrum Guide introduced new guidance: sprint planning must go beyond the WHAT and the HOW of product backlog items to the WHY, specifically why is the sprint valuable? Scott shares his firsthand experience of how to run an effective sprint planning meeting, including focusing on the ‘Why?’ plus practical advice on increasing an agile team’s motivation and engagement. You’ll learn why the product owner-development team relationship is the linchpin of sprint-planning success and the primacy of preparation, forward vision, and a value-driven mindset. Final advice includes better communication of expectations with distributed team members and aligning with the evolving nature of the tech landscape through trying new approaches. Listen now to discover: · 04:00 – How asking ‘Why?’ adds value and motivates, empowers, and engages teams · 07:00 – Why the relationship between the product owner and development team is the linchpin of success · 10:00 – What level of detail Scrum teams should be striving for during a sprint planning meeting · 12:00 – The purpose of a sprint review and what needs to change in order to support inclusive collaboration · 14:00 – How to leave room for discovery with minimal documentation · 15:52 – How flexible requirements and ongoing conversation enable collaboration and employee engagement · 17:00 – How to remain focused on driving value when facilitating sprint planning meetings · 19:00 – The mindset shift required to define value through conversation and negotiation · 21:30 – Craig Larman methodology - culture follows structure · 22:00 – Why assigning work during sprint planning kills collaboration and team spirit · 26:00 – The purpose of the sprint planning meeting and how to maximize the time allocated · 27:30 – The restrictions of forward planning and how to find confidence in emergent architecture to align with the changing nature of tech organizations · 30:00 – How product owners in sprint planning can improve efficiency through preparation · 34:00 – Tips for distributed teams: adapting to remote working, improving communication, and more effective sprint planning · 40:30 – The ‘Inspect and Adapt’ concept: the importance of trying new approaches and implementing new methods. Listen next time when we’ll be discussing . . . Daily scrums with certified Scrum trainer, Julie Chickering. You’ll learn the true purpose of this 15-minute time-boxed event as well as common pitfalls and mistakes to avoid in this meeting. References and resources mentioned in the show: · Larman's Laws of Organizational Behavior · David Hawks Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. · Enjoyed what you heard today? Take a second to leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. · Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Certified Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience in management, project management (PMP), engagement management, and software development (MCSD). He is passionate about strengths-based teams and a solutions-based approach to people and organizational issues. Show edited by Rhett Gill.

In this episode, Scott Dunn and Brian review the key aspects of leading an effective sprint planning meeting: its purpose, how it works, who attends, and ensuring yours are achieving the desired result. Overview Brian Milner and Scott Dunn discuss product ownership and leading a sprint planning meeting. 2020’s Scrum Guide introduced new guidance: sprint planning must go beyond the WHAT and the HOW of product backlog items to the WHY, specifically why is the sprint valuable? Scott shares his firsthand experience of how to run an effective sprint planning meeting, including focusing on the ‘Why?’ plus practical advice on increasing an agile team’s motivation and engagement. You’ll learn why the product owner-development team relationship is the linchpin of sprint-planning success and the primacy of preparation, forward vision, and a value-driven mindset. Final advice includes better communication of expectations with distributed team members and aligning with the evolving nature of the tech landscape through trying new approaches. Listen now to discover: · 04:00 – How asking ‘Why?’ adds value and motivates, empowers, and engages teams · 07:00 – Why the relationship between the product owner and development team is the linchpin of success · 10:00 – What level of detail Scrum teams should be striving for during a sprint planning meeting · 12:00 – The purpose of a sprint review and what needs to change in order to support inclusive collaboration · 14:00 – How to leave room for discovery with minimal documentation · 15:52 – How flexible requirements and ongoing conversation enable collaboration and employee engagement · 17:00 – How to remain focused on driving value when facilitating sprint planning meetings · 19:00 – The mindset shift required to define value through conversation and negotiation · 21:30 – Craig Larman methodology - culture follows structure · 22:00 – Why assigning work during sprint planning kills collaboration and team spirit · 26:00 – The purpose of the sprint planning meeting and how to maximize the time allocated · 27:30 – The restrictions of forward planning and how to find confidence in emergent architecture to align with the changing nature of tech organizations · 30:00 – How product owners in sprint planning can improve efficiency through preparation · 34:00 – Tips for distributed teams: adapting to remote working, improving communication, and more effective sprint planning · 40:30 – The ‘Inspect and Adapt’ concept: the importance of trying new approaches and implementing new methods. Listen next time when we’ll be discussing . . . Daily scrums with certified Scrum trainer, Julie Chickering. You’ll learn the true purpose of this 15-minute time-boxed event as well as common pitfalls and mistakes to avoid in this meeting. References and resources mentioned in the show: · Larman's Laws of Organizational Behavior · David Hawks Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. · Enjoyed what you heard today? Take a second to leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. · Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Certified Scrum Trainer with more than 20 years of experience in management, project management (PMP), engagement management, and software development (MCSD). He is passionate about strengths-based teams and a solutions-based approach to people and organizational issues. Show edited by Rhett Gill.

Join Brian Milner and Sherman Gomberg for a discussion of the importance of a Scrum team’s developers and why self-organizing teams are at the heart of agile methodologies like Scrum. In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian Milner and Sherman Gomberg discuss the evolution of one of the Scrum roles: developer. They also explain why self-organizing teams of developers have become critical to all organizations. On agile projects, developers are the people who “do the work” and while at first glance you may see agile developers as always engineers or other software development professionals, that’s not invariably the case. According to the Scrum Guide, the development team can be composed of all kinds of people including designers, writers, programmers, etc. Using over 25 years of Scrum, agile, and project management experience, Sherman and Brian compare notes on the topic of how to build and sustain agile, self-organizing teams. They share their insights and advice on why empowering individuals to work in cross-functional agile teams leads to greater efficiency, higher rewards, and lower risks. Listen now to discover: - 03:38 –How to tell whether your agile team is self-organizing - 05:25 – The advantages of having self-organized teams in agile environments - 07:10 – Bruce Tuckman’s four stages of team development: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing - 09:17 – Advice for Scrum Masters and product owners on how to promote self-organization among team members - 09:60 – The parallels between software teams and sports teams: self-organize and work together to shine - 13:34 – How and why to build a learning organization - 18:00 – The definition of “self-managing” as cited by the Scrum Guide - 22:00 – How to address bug-fixing and technical debt during a sprint - 28:00 – The three most valuable practices adopted by developers in a sprint - 37:50 – The importance of understanding the developer role and why all three roles on a Scrum team should take a Scrum developer course - 40:48 – The role of a tech lead in Scrum - 43:00 – Why it is essential to form a team of equals and how self-organization works to support this Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Sprint planning with guest co-host Scott Dunn. You’ll learn about the sprint planning event as described in the Scrum Guide and the 3 essential “Why? What? How?” topics addressed in order to plan successful sprints. References and resources mentioned in the show ● Scrum Guide ● The Bruce Tuckman Model ● The Agile Manifesto Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Don’t forget to rate and review: it really helps! ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Sherman Gomberg is CEO at Scrum Adventures, Inc. He is a CTC and has a total of eleven certifications from the Scrum Alliance. He has over 25 years of experience with agile, Scrum, and project management across various industries. He enjoys working with teams during breakout sessions in online courses, where he helps to bring curiosity to valuable discussions and in doing so, moves the needle from training to knowledge obtained to knowledge applied.

Join Brian Milner and Sherman Gomberg for a discussion of the importance of a Scrum team’s developers and why self-organizing teams are at the heart of agile methodologies like Scrum. In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian Milner and Sherman Gomberg discuss the evolution of one of the Scrum roles: developer. They also explain why self-organizing teams of developers have become critical to all organizations. On agile projects, developers are the people who “do the work” and while at first glance you may see agile developers as always engineers or other software development professionals, that’s not invariably the case. According to the Scrum Guide, the development team can be composed of all kinds of people including designers, writers, programmers, etc. Using over 25 years of Scrum, agile, and project management experience, Sherman and Brian compare notes on the topic of how to build and sustain agile, self-organizing teams. They share their insights and advice on why empowering individuals to work in cross-functional agile teams leads to greater efficiency, higher rewards, and lower risks. Listen now to discover: - 03:38 –How to tell whether your agile team is self-organizing - 05:25 – The advantages of having self-organized teams in agile environments - 07:10 – Bruce Tuckman’s four stages of team development: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing - 09:17 – Advice for Scrum Masters and product owners on how to promote self-organization among team members - 09:60 – The parallels between software teams and sports teams: self-organize and work together to shine - 13:34 – How and why to build a learning organization - 18:00 – The definition of “self-managing” as cited by the Scrum Guide - 22:00 – How to address bug-fixing and technical debt during a sprint - 28:00 – The three most valuable practices adopted by developers in a sprint - 37:50 – The importance of understanding the developer role and why all three roles on a Scrum team should take a Scrum developer course - 40:48 – The role of a tech lead in Scrum - 43:00 – Why it is essential to form a team of equals and how self-organization works to support this Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Sprint planning with guest co-host Scott Dunn. You’ll learn about the sprint planning event as described in the Scrum Guide and the 3 essential “Why? What? How?” topics addressed in order to plan successful sprints. References and resources mentioned in the show ● Scrum Guide ● The Bruce Tuckman Model ● The Agile Manifesto Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Don’t forget to rate and review: it really helps! ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Sherman Gomberg is CEO at Scrum Adventures, Inc. He is a CTC and has a total of eleven certifications from the Scrum Alliance. He has over 25 years of experience with agile, Scrum, and project management across various industries. He enjoys working with teams during breakout sessions in online courses, where he helps to bring curiosity to valuable discussions and in doing so, moves the needle from training to knowledge obtained to knowledge applied.

Join Brian Milner and Sherman Gomberg for a discussion of the importance of a Scrum team’s developers and why self-organizing teams are at the heart of agile methodologies like Scrum. In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian Milner and Sherman Gomberg discuss the evolution of one of the Scrum roles: developer. They also explain why self-organizing teams of developers have become critical to all organizations. On agile projects, developers are the people who “do the work” and while at first glance you may see agile developers as always engineers or other software development professionals, that’s not invariably the case. According to the Scrum Guide, the development team can be composed of all kinds of people including designers, writers, programmers, etc. Using over 25 years of Scrum, agile, and project management experience, Sherman and Brian compare notes on the topic of how to build and sustain agile, self-organizing teams. They share their insights and advice on why empowering individuals to work in cross-functional agile teams leads to greater efficiency, higher rewards, and lower risks. Listen now to discover: - 03:38 –How to tell whether your agile team is self-organizing - 05:25 – The advantages of having self-organized teams in agile environments - 07:10 – Bruce Tuckman’s four stages of team development: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing - 09:17 – Advice for Scrum Masters and product owners on how to promote self-organization among team members - 09:60 – The parallels between software teams and sports teams: self-organize and work together to shine - 13:34 – How and why to build a learning organization - 18:00 – The definition of “self-managing” as cited by the Scrum Guide - 22:00 – How to address bug-fixing and technical debt during a sprint - 28:00 – The three most valuable practices adopted by developers in a sprint - 37:50 – The importance of understanding the developer role and why all three roles on a Scrum team should take a Scrum developer course - 40:48 – The role of a tech lead in Scrum - 43:00 – Why it is essential to form a team of equals and how self-organization works to support this Listen next time when we’ll be discussing… Sprint planning with guest co-host Scott Dunn. You’ll learn about the sprint planning event as described in the Scrum Guide and the 3 essential “Why? What? How?” topics addressed in order to plan successful sprints. References and resources mentioned in the show ● Scrum Guide ● The Bruce Tuckman Model ● The Agile Manifesto Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. ● Enjoyed what you heard today? Don’t forget to rate and review: it really helps! ● Got an agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He’s passionate about making a difference in people’s day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Sherman Gomberg is CEO at Scrum Adventures, Inc. He is a CTC and has a total of eleven certifications from the Scrum Alliance. He has over 25 years of experience with agile, Scrum, and project management across various industries. He enjoys working with teams during breakout sessions in online courses, where he helps to bring curiosity to valuable discussions and in doing so, moves the needle from training to knowledge obtained to knowledge applied.

The most Mainah episode yet! Scott Dunn of the Dunn Family Farm and the Maine Maple Association joins me this week. Here is more on Scott:I started making maple syrup in Vermont as a child with my parents over an open fire using my Great Grandfather's buckets.  In high school I would help a neighbor gathering sap and boiling in his sugar house.  I built a sugar house in 2013 and started boiling with my family and have grown from 75 taps our first year to 1600 currently.  We sell syrup to consumers as well as wholesale to retail stores and restaurants.  Currently I am the President of the Maine Maple Producers Association representing more than 200 maple producers.Welcome to the Strength For Your Purpose Podcast where  Dr. Phil Finemore, PT, DPT, Cert. DN, Cert. VRS, owner of WorkFitME Mobile Physical Therapy, has a goal of helping busy Maine professionals find the mental, emotional, and physical strength to fulfill their true purpose in life. The mission is to approach the topic of wellness holistically and show you how outer and inner strength can spill over to all areas of life, creating waves of positive change in its path.It would mean so much to me if you took the time to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. Please share with family, friends, and coworkers so they too can learn more about how to find their inner strength to fulfill their true purpose in life.Find Strength For Your Purpose Podcast on social media:Facebook: www.facebook.com/strengthforyourpurposepodIG: @strengthforyourpurposepodYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5x3bhLFf-I2hUxQuXgMdSQFind Dr. Phil and WorkFitME on social media:Facebook: www.facebook.com/phil.finemore and www.facebook.com/workfitmeIG: @drphilptdpt and @workfitmeTwitter: @drphilptdpt and @workfitmeLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/drphilptdpt and www.linkedin.com/company/workfitmeEmail: drphilptdpt@gmail.com

In this episode, Scott Dunn, president of the Maine Maple Producers Association, joins Nancy to talk all things Maine maple. From how he got started in the business to promoting Maine maple products and Maine Maple Sunday, Scott explains what makes Maine maple products unique when compared to other regions. Scott also offers tips for cooking with maple and some resources to learn how to produce maple syrup or connect with producers. 2:50 – Scott shared how he got involved with syrup making as a kid in Vermont. 4:29 – Scott explains what the Maine Maple Producers Association is. 5:43 – Scott offers his favorite way to cook with maple, substituting the sugar in chocolate chip cookies with maple sugar. 6:57 – Scott talks about Maine Maple Sunday, the last Sunday in March. 10:19 – Scott describes what makes the Maine maple brand unique. 12:58 – Scott shares his vision for the future of Maine maple syrup. 13:05 – Scott provides some resources that have helped him in his maple syruping career.   15:01 – Scott talks about the weather conditions to make maple syrup.   Quote “Our producers put a tremendous amount of pride into their product. Everything from the way they care for the woods and the trees, into their sugarhouses and really the final product. It's made with passion and pride. Being able to connect with that really makes people enjoy maple syrup that much more because they have their people. It's nice to hear stories when families come in and they're like 'We brought maple syrup home and my daughter wouldn't eat it because it wasn't yours.'” – Scott Dunn, president of the Maine Maple Producers Association Links: Maple events and classes: https://mainemapleproducers.com/events/ University of Vermont: https://www.uvm.edu/ Connect with producers: https://mainemapleproducers.com/member-directory/#!directory/map   Activate the PR Maven® Flash Briefing on your Alexa Device.  Join the PR Maven® Facebook group.    About the guest:     Scott Dunn started making maple syrup in Vermont with his family as a kid. In high school, a neighbor had a sugar house up the road and Scott would help him after school. Years later, Scott started making syrup on a small scale. He has now grown to 1,600 taps and has direct-to-consumer and wholesale accounts all over Maine. His website sales have grown tremendously in the last two years. Scott was elected as the president of the Maine Maple Producers Association three years ago at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic and has worked to support the producers and grow the “Maine” brand. Their signature event, now in its 39th year, is Maine Maple Sunday. Each year, sugar houses open their doors for a maple celebration state-wide on the fourth Sunday in March.   Looking to connect:           Email: dunnfamilymaple@gmail.com Website: https://mainemapleproducers.com/

Eric chats with stand-up comedian turned comedy writer, Scott Dunn, about his work writing jokes for a variety of television and live awards shows. After a brief stand-up career, Scott the met up and coming Lisa Lampanelli, an insult comic, and struck up a friendship. He would occasionally send her jokes, and eventually they collaborated on her slot in the Chevy Chase roast for Comedy Central. Realizing he enjoyed seeing people laugh at his jokes whether he or another comic delivered the lines, Scott dedicated himself to comedy writing and working for a wide variety of shows.     Scott doesn't maintain a social media presence, but if you'd like to get in touch, you can email Eric below and get in touch through him:   Eric M. Strong https://www.ericmstrong.com  

Hey, y'all. I am Shay. This is thebuzzr podcast. On air indie, from my pad to yours over the airways. Today in the show, Lionel Doe from Etobicoke, Canada band So Dirty The Flamingos. We discuss the band's The Bloodroot Sessions album, spin a few tracks & talk music. The Bloodroot Sessions: “This is a record that came to be in all its juxtapositions–the love and the hate, the creation and the destruction, like the beautiful flower that sits in blood, “The Bloodroot Sessions” has bloomed, set to release in fall 2021. Local minded all. The band seeks unique (barbershops, record stores) and classic venues (Horseshoe Tavern, Junction City Music Hall) for its live performances. Watch out for these ones.” An incredible top-shelf Canadian band! Thank you for tuning in tonight. Enjoy the show! Cheers! Shay From the Band Est. 2018 Artist Bio In July of 2018, Lionel Doe set out to record what was to be a simple, acoustic, singersongwriter EP. The project was to be gritty and beautiful, and thus called “So Dirty the Flamingos”. At the same time, Lionel's bandmate, bassist Adam Drury embarked on transforming the basement of his family home into a fully functioning recording studio and rehearsal space. They then enlisted Devin Jannetta, a workhorse drummer, and Scott Dunn, a Hammond organist with a long history of musical collaborations all over Toronto. And finally, Ciara Logar was asked to join as the backing vocalist to add to what was to be a signature sound. So Dirty the Flamingos was born, and at the same time, Sodipop Studio was record and rehearsal space ready. As the songs went to tape, Doe was inspired by the largesse of the sound that was being captured. The arrangements changed and grew, other musicians were brought in, and in the end, the self-titled So Dirty the Flamingos debut EP was a full-fledged Americana sonic boon, complete with pedal steel guitar (Steve Crosgrey), cello, (Mark Wang), a children's choir, and cowboy gang vocals. It was at this time it was decided to release on vinyl format, as the material lent itself to it. ‘So Dirty the Flamingos' was released officially on June 14th, 2019 at The Big Guy's Little Coffee Shop, where the band's formative business meetings were held. From there, they continue to play live shows throughout Toronto, in iconic places such as Junction City Music Hall, and the Horseshoe Tavern to smaller coffee and record shops. This indie roots rock quintet is cranking out songs straight from the heart and they are continuing to flourish. Their debut single, “Daughters” made it to the top 100 in the 2019 CBC Spotlight competition and was quickly followed by their second EP release single, “Before the Misfits” which heated up local radio with its selection as a featured artist pick. Their second EP, Unamerican Girl was released at the height on the pandemic in May 2020. As is their nature, So Dirty the Flamingos pushed through the uncertainty with grit and determination and are currently working on a third EP. This is a record that came to be in all its juxtapositions – the love and the hate, the creation and the destruction, like the beautiful flower that sits in blood, “The Bloodroot Sessions” has bloomed, set to release in fall 2021. Local minded all, the band seeks out unique (barbershops, record stores) and classic venues (Horseshoe Tavern, Junction City Music Hall) for its live performances. Watch out for these ones. Members Lionel Doe – Songwriter, lead vocals, lead guitar Adam Drury – Songwriter, bass guitar, vocals Scott Dunn – Keys Devin Jannetta – Percussion Ciara Logar – Vocals Facebook Link Youtube Instagram Bandcamp Spotify Itunes-note https://youtu.be/gICjV21gPa4

I speak with Scott Dunn on the latest episode about Soda and Telepath's project "End of the World!" which is an anthology of apocalyptic stories being produced on Kickstarter. We speak about the comic book anthology and Scotts transition from playwright to comic writer. "Producing the End of the World" anthology is the first time that Scott's comic will be published! Please follow the Earth-16 Comics Wire Podcast: Website: Twitter: @Earth16Podcast Instagram: @earth16comicswire Follow Scott Dunn: @greatscottdunn Follow Soda and Telepaths: @SodaTelepaths Check out the Kickstarter here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodaandtelepaths/producing-the-end-of-the-world-anthology --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/podcast-102e69d0/support

In this week's episode, we look at two cases that went cold, and then with the help of a special group of people called The Vidocq Society, the cases were eventually solved.

Can you have a murder without a corpse?  Join Benton and Anna as they explore the many ways a conviction can be secured without finding a body in this week's episode!  First, Anna gives a rundown on the number of murder convictions that occur without a body, and Benton tells the tale of the disappearance of Scott Dunn from Lubbock, Texas.  Then, Anna  relays the infamous missing persons case of Evelyn Scott.  Finally, the two discuss a classic episode of Murder Maps, profiling the Acid Bath Murderer, John Haigh.Our TV doc this week is Season 3: Episode 2 of Murder Maps, "The Acid Bath Murderer".

Dowling discusses election issues with County Commissioner Scott Dunn, and his upcoming Birthday Celebration event - On this Moment with Matt with Rep. Matt Dowling (R- Fayette & Somerset).

Dowling discusses election issues with County Commissioner Scott Dunn, and his upcoming Birthday Celebration event - On this Moment with Matt with Rep. Matt Dowling (R- Fayette & Somerset).

Outside is open and Dream Weekend wants to make a comeback in August. But will the PM free it up? And would you even go if they get the go-ahead? I'm talking to Managing Director of Dream Entertainment, Scott Dunn, about their proposal to pull off the massive summer's biggest party series. And THE ANALYSTS weigh in on the latest market developments…. Real estate company, First Rock Capital Holdings, is looking to rebalance its portfolio… STATIN's official growth numbers are out. We'll tell you which industries and companies you should be looking at... And overseas, Coca-Cola is back to pre-pandemic earnings. VOTE ON THIS WEEK'S POLL QUESTION: Do you think the government should give approval to host Dream Weekend in August? https://www.youtube.com/c/kalilahrey/community TAKING STOCK - The Caribbean's #1 Business and Finance Show! Doing business and investing in Jamaica and the Caribbean LET'S GET THIS MONEY! SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER: https://kalilahreynolds.com/newsletter CONTACT THE ANALYSTS: Orick Angus Senior Wealth Advisor Ideal Portfolio Services https://www.idealgroupjm.com/ 17 Ripon Road, Kingston 5 Telephone - (876) 960-6389 ext 244 Jodian Aris Research and Strategy Analyst Sagicor Investments https://www.sagicor.com/en-jm/personal-solution/investment Julian Morrison Assistant Manager, Private Equity PROVEN Management https://provenwealth.com 26 Belmont Road, Kgn. 5, Jamaica W.I. Tel: +1 876 908 3800 1 IG/Twitter: @julianinvests --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/kalilahrey/support

Chris and James sit down with Director/Writer/Actor Scotty Dunn and talk about making his films Mondao of the Dead! About Scotty Dunn From the Crossroads of Spooky and Snark, Scott Dunn is a screenwriter who's always been obsessed with telling stories inspired by ghastly and ghoulish lore. While a major fan of horror throughout the ages, he aspires to bring spooky tales to a younger audience believing that kids like to be scared, and can handle more than most adults give them credit for. Born into a wandering carnival, Scott explored the vast shadowy and mist-filled corners of a foreign world known as "Canada". His father, the strongman, and his mother, the bearded lady, knew he was different, and when he failed to make it as a strongman wrestler, he was cast out from the caravan. However, they were not without reason. They knew Scott was a performer, just a different kind, and funded his journey to the far off land of Vancouver where he would hone his craft as a screenwriter.  

We had so much fun recording this episode. Mandao Returns is a quirky sci-fi horror comedy that follows up Mandao of the Dead. Fun movie that hit all the marks for us this week--murderous cult, astral projecting, with a Christmas backdrop. For this week's Real World Connection we have a special treat! Scott Dunn, screenwriter/director/actor of the Mandao Series and Schlep, joined us to talk about his movies, indie filmmaking, diversity & inclusivity in horror, and his upcoming projects. You can't miss this episode, tune in to get in on the conversation! Visit our website at https://www.nightmaremoviepodcast.com To help support our podcast head over to our membership page at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/nightmarepod Music for this podcast created by JUNIPER. Find her music on SPOTIFY To keep updated with Scott Dunn and his future projects: https://twitter.com/ScottyDUNNit https://www.instagram.com/scottydunndidit/ https://www.youtube.com/user/scottdunnjadedactor https://dunnitfilms.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/nightmaremoviepodcast/support

The Dunnit Films partners (Scott Dunn & Gina Gomez Dunn) discuss how they financed their first films including a successful crowdfunding campaign, and unveil their game plan to get investors & distribution for their future films.

In this episode, The Barton Partnership's Founder and CEO Nicholas Barton speaks to Sonia Davies, CEO of luxury tour operator Scott Dunn.  Sonia shares her insights on the challenges and opportunities facing the industry today, the rise of sustainable travel, navigating Covid and the key leadership lessons learned along the way.

What is our responsibility as travelers to follow politics, current events, and human rights issues in a destination we are interested in visiting? And should we be avoiding places where we believe the government carries out unethical policies? Travel invites us to explore faraway cultures and environments, yes. But it also invites us to look inside ourselves and examine our personal values. This episode is about just that. First we speak with Dr. Anu Taranath, a teaching professor on issues of diversity, racial equality and social change at the University of Washington. Dr. Anu recently wrote an award-winning book called Beyond Guilt Trips: Mindful Travel in an Unequal World.We also call up Simon Lynch, director of sales for Luxury Travel Group, the parent company of Scott Dunn, a conscientious bespoke tour operator. Simon  shares Scott Dunn’s efforts to work with locally owned and operated businesses in each of their destinations to ensure tourism dollars directly benefit communities. 

Gina and Scott Dunn are the filmmakers behind dunnit films. They have released 3 feature films so far, Schelp, Mandao of the Dead (which premiered at San Diego comic con in 2019) and Return of Mandao which just hit streaming last month.In our conversation we talked about how they market their films and the mistakes that they've learned from in the course of releasing their first two films. and a bunch more.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/thejhorton)

Jay Mandao returns. Christmas is in the air as Jay astral projects back in time to prevent the death of a B-movie star. However, the more Jay and his friends mess with time, the deadlier Christmas becomes. Scott Dunn is a Korean-American filmmaker from Illinois. Throughout his childhood, he made films with his friends as a hobby. After graduating high school, he began his career acting in Chicago before moving to Los Angeles. He got his first break in a three-episode arc in Disney XD's "Kickin' It". After appearing in several short films and webisodes, Scott switched back to his filmmaking roots. He made his first feature film, "Schlep" which won Best Comedy/Dramedy at the Hollywood Boulevard Film Festival and was nominated in five different categories at the FirstGlance Film Festival. "Mandao of the Dead" is Scott's second feature film that he wrote, directed, edited, produced, and starred in. Find out more at https://wicked-horror-show.pinecast.co Send us your feedback online: https://pinecast.com/feedback/wicked-horror-show/b60bfc86-7efb-459b-bba6-404884e76de8

In Episode 5 of VICTOR Voices, we chat to Jules Maury - Head of Programme at Scott Dunn Private. A Victor Alto Partner, Scott Dunn Private offers travel without limits. Think behind the scenes access, pouring over the highlights of the Acropolis on a private tour with the chief Curator, or marvelling at the art of Mongolian eagle hunting in the heart of the Altai Mountains. Jules has grown up with travel in her soul to become the highly respected figure in luxury travel that she is today. Through personal anecdotes, we hear how she carefully creates one-of-a-kind experiences and extraordinary memories for her clients as they travel the world over. www.scottdunn.com/scott-dunn-private Recorded in December 2020.

As a result of Covid-19, the Scott Dunn team in Singapore has pivoted to offer local staycation packages at Singapore’s finest hotels complete with exclusive Scott Dunn perks such as confirmed early check-in, late check-out, credits for spa & dining, as well as complimentary meals. Mike Harlow, General Manager, Scott Dunn Singapore shares some of the challenges they faced during the initial part of the global lockdown and why they decided to pivot and offer local staycation packages at Singapore’s finest hotels complete.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

PostsMy membershipCommunityFLUSH STUDIOSis creating Independent Films81PATRONSPrivate$280PER MONTHPostsMedia typeTierMonthSearch postsSearch posts129 more...Newest to oldestPINNEDPinned only for patronsMAY 29, 2020 AT 2:38 PMUnlockedGREYWOOD'S PLOT | The Second Flush Moving PictureThere are only a few short days until Greywood's Plot will be screening online with the live Q&A - but I wanted to share the movie early with all my subscribers in case you aren't able to watch Sunday.Password is: alchemyIf you have any questions you'd like Daniel and I to answer in the Q&A, leave them in the comments. Continue readingGreywood's Plotfeature film4 LikesJoin the conversation...JAN 29, 2021 AT 9:48 AMUnlockedEARLY ACCESS: Podcast - Filmmaking Team Gina and Scott DunnLowBudgetRebels_ProducerGinaDunnDirectorScottDunn.mp3Hey, everyone!On this weeks podcast I was able to sit down with filmmaking couple Gina Gomez Dunn and Scott Dunn to talk about their film Mandao Returns. We discuss little tricks to improve independent films, use of props, vhs tapes, adding proper visual effects, finding funding, and learning about distribution. This was such a fun episode and I highly recommend following Gina and Scott on social media and supporting their filmmaking endeavors in the future.Follow Scott at @ScottyDUNNi on twitter and check out his youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/scottdunnjadedactorFollow Gina on twitter at @GinaGomezDunn.And make sure to check out more of their stuff and keep up to date with their new projects at dunnitfilms.com--------------------------Help support independent filmmaking.SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLUSH STUDIOS PATREON TODAY!patreon.com/flushstudiosGet early access to the podcastExclusive features and short filmsBehind-the-ScenesLive StreamsAnd More!

Commissioner Dunn explains the mission of the Fayette County COVID-19 Vaccine Planning Taskforce See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In May of 1991, 24-year-old Scott Dunn disappeared from his apartment in Lubbock. An order of superhero crime sleuths and a room full of blood help solve the case that could have been forever cold.Check out more All Crime No Cattle at our website allcrimenocattle.com.Visit our Patreon page to support the show and earn some awesome rewards: https://patreon.com/allcrimenocattle. Check out our merch shop: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/all-crime-no-cattle-podcast-shop?ref_id=9435. Find us on Twitter: @ACNCpodcast and on Instagram: @allcrimenocattle. Tip Jar: https://paypal.me/allcrimenocattle.And always remember: crime is bigger in Texas, y'all!

This episode, we give Scott Dunn, Director of the feature film Mandao of the Dead and upcoming follow up Mandao Returns. Take a listen as we talk about the many processes of making a feature film. We also touched on toilet paper and cereal boxes... so take a listen, download, subscribe, and kick back with us on this episode of the quarantine edition.  View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/noGzLdAVIrs Watch Mandao NOW: https://www.amazon.com/Mandao-Dead-Scott-Dunn/dp/B07KB93B1D Scott Dunn YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/scottdunnjadedactor Official Page: https://www.mandaofilms.com/  

Support on Kick Starter www.mandaoreturns.comMandao of the DeadDirector:Scott DunnWriter:Scott DunnStars:Alexandre Chen, Scott Dunn, Marisa Hoodwatch on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KBB1YL2

In this week's episode of Let's Talk Real Estate, Corina is joined by Gilford Town Administrator Scott Dunn, who discusses what makes Gilford a great place to live, future plans for expansion in the town, and much more! Get to know your lake town, Gilford, New Hampshire! Catch the show at 8:30 AM Saturdays on 101.5 WEEI SportsRadio / WZEI FM & 104.9 The Hawk / WLKZ FM, on Podbean, iTunes, and Google Play. Let's Talk Real Estate is sponsored by Jonathan Ferrante of Blue Water Mortgage, Cisneros Realty Group powered by eXp Realty, Hudkins Title and Settlement Services, and Dana Gunnerson, Agent with Joe Suozzo Allstate Insurance office in Derry, NH. Let's Talk Real Estate is a production of Modern Media Services, LLC, CRGTV, and Mr. Strategic Alliance, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

Kill the dead givewaway!!!!! Leave us a review on itunes for a chance to win one of two horror action figures!

Andrew Stanley graduated from college with a finance degree. He always thought he was funny but didn’t know how to explore writing comedy. A mutual friend introduced Andrew to Scott Dunn, who writes for a lot of great comedians (Listen to Scott’s Episode of the podcast here). Scott recommended Andrew write five minutes of jokes, and then go do them at the local comedy club open mic. Andrew hesitated at first because of a fear of speaking in public. His father and grandfather are well known and respected pastors. Yet, he didn’t see himself as someone who would stand in front of strangers and talk for a living. But he mustered up a few jokes and attended an open mic at the Laughing Skull in Atlanta. With 20 comedians doing five minutes each, he remembers leaving there thinking he wasn’t the best, but wasn’t the worst. He decided to keep at it. Lucky for us he did. We cover a lot of ground on the podcast, including: How his father Andy Stanley influenced my podcast How the School of Laughs podcast influenced Andrew's early days How Lace Larabee encouraged him to pursue comedy Inviting friends out to see you perform Transitioning out of work and into Stand-Up Comedy Who was the last one to decide he should go into comedy full time Balancing church and comedy club events Being dark in the light place and light in the dark place Early successes that have led to more work The Catalyst Conference The blessings of family The benefits of clean comedy Confusing family-friendly with clean comedy Venn diagram of what works in comedy environments Building material that works in all places Starting with a punchline and building the joke from there The necessity of stage time Exploring writing processes Learning when and how to say “no” to wrong opportunities AND A WHOLE LOT MORE!   Follow Andrew Stanley: https://twitter.com/andrewWstanley https://www.facebook.com/andrew.stanley.986 https://www.instagram.com/andrewwstanley/     SPONSOR SPOTLIGHT:  This episode is brought to you by Patreon supporter DUSTIN CRIDERand CLUB 52. Club 52  is a one-year program designed to challenge you to get bigger, better and more bookable. You will be prompted to examine your material, performance and business practices via email each week. You will define your stage persona, style and point of view. You will learn how to create expectations through your marketing, branding and introductions. From nailing your elevator pitch, to refining your value proposition, you will learn how to make it easier for bookers to hire you. Meet comics from around the country during a quarterly online “hangout”. As a group, we tackle our top struggles and how to approach overcoming them. Think of it as your personal monthly mastermind group. Over the course of the year you will learn how to get more gigs, and leverage every opportunity that comes your way. Sound good? Club 52 is available to anyone supporting the podcast through Patreon at $7 a month or more. To learn more about Patreon, just click here. Or go to SchoolOflaughs.com/Patreon

Mandao of the Dead Jay Mandao and his nephew-in-law Jackson use astral projection to reverse a ghost's death on Halloween. This Halloween... Jay and Jackson are going astral.This episode is sponsored by Deadly Grounds Coffee "Its good to get a little Deadly" https://deadlygroundscoffee.comAvailable on Amazon Prime! https://amzn.to/2VUFKWeScott Dunn is a Korean-American filmmaker from Illinois. Throughout his childhood, he made films with his friends as a hobby. After graduating high school, he began his career acting in Chicago before moving to Los Angeles.He got his first break in a three-episode arc in Disney XD's "Kickin' It". After appearing in several short films and webisodes, Scott switched back to his filmmaking roots. He made his first feature film, "Schlep" which won Best Comedy/Dramedy at the Hollywood Boulevard Film Festival and was nominated in five different categories at the FirstGlance Film Festival."Mandao of the Dead" is Scott's second feature film that he wrote, directed, edited, produced, and starred in.Follow Scott Dunn https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxbaHdlqY7rvWbWYhfbsg https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2853253/?ref=ttov_drFind out more at https://wicked-horror-show.pinecast.coSend us your feedback online: https://pinecast.com/feedback/wicked-horror-show/8b6e1608-1c2b-4a30-9da5-bf91b49c0ade

Scott Dunn had vanished. Now his father and his super-sleuth friends had to prove he’d been murdered. They uncovered a shocking tale of manipulation and torture, and a most unexpected criminal. Written by Michael Capuzzo, adapted from The Murder Room. Read by Zoe Meunier.

Mandao (Man-Day-Oh) of the Dead is about an unambitious guy named Jay Mandao who lives frugally off his late father's cereal royalties. He wants nothing more than to live in solitude but is duped into taking in his adult nephew-in-law, Jackson. As Halloween approaches, Jay begins having odd dreams and comes to find that he has the ability of astral projection. Jay and Jackson are approached by a ghost who has a small window of opportunity to reverse his death at the hands of Jackson's murderous ex-girlfriend." Follow Us on Social Media Facebook: Kill The Dead  Instagram: @killthedeadone Support Scott at https://www.mandaofilms.com

Indie filmmaker Scott Dunn and I discuss the struggles of being millennial entrepreneurs, and how we're working through those struggles. Although our professions are quite different (Scott in Hollywood, Andrew in tech/startups), there's a lot of fundamental similarities in what we're going through and how we're making progress.

24-year-old Scott Dunn goes missing but there's no trace of him anywhere...except for some suspicious looking carpet in his apartment. Could you cover up a crime better than this?

Scott is the Managing Director of Dream Entertainment Limited, the company behind Jamaica’s largest and most impactful music festival – Dream Weekend, the country’s biggest Carnival Mas Band – Xodus Carnival and in 2019 will execute the Dream Weekend Cruise – Jamaica’s first owned entire cruise ship charter. One Action To Blaze Your Trail: Just do it! Most people know what they want to do deep down. If you're really passionate about something, you just have to go out and do it. Don't be reckless, still be calculated. If you have a dream and a passion, at least get started on it. Thanks for Listening! Please help us expand the reach of this podcast. Follow and share the podcast with your friends on: Twitter:  Instagram:  Facebook:  If you're on Apple Podcasts, help us reach more trailblazers by ! Ratings, reviews and subscribes are extremely helpful to expanding our reach within the Apple community.

If you have a great corporate job, and you’re on an upward path, making excellent money, would you leave it all and risk getting nothing? Scott Dunn’s “dream” was too big to ignore, and he’s getting paid massive dividends for jumping off into the deep end. Scott is the Managing Director of Dream Entertainment, masterminds behind the renowned Dream Weekend event, Xodus Carnival Band, stalwart parties like Twisted Spiritz, Yush, Daydreams and tons more to mention. In this episode, he shares how a business thrived in a non-traditional business industry as entertainment and grew to contribute billions of dollars per year to the Jamaican economy. Scott is 41 and lives in Jamaica with his wife and 2 daughters. We also talk about: Finding your unfair advantage and leaving your competition in the dust, The biggest and most overlooked asset young entrepreneurs need, How to keep up with the huge scale of your vision, and so much more! Check out the show notes at http://ttb.show/scott. - Book Recommendation: The 4-Hour Workweek – Tim Ferris -   Connect with Scott: Instagram – @dunnscott Dream Weekend Website – https://jamaicadreamweekend.com/jm Dream Entertainment Instagram – @dreameventsja Xodus Carnival Website - https://xoduscarnival.com Xodus Carnival Instagram - @xoduscarnival Dream Weekend Cruise Website - http://dreamweekendcruise.com Dream Weekend Cruise Instagram - @dreamweekendcruise - 1️⃣ Subscribe to my YouTube channel: Paul Stennett 2️⃣ Subscribe to the Podcast: http://ttb.show/scott - Paul Stennett is an entrepreneur, speaker, CEO and Co-Founder of Amazing Gains, a podcast concierge company, helping entrepreneurs create and grow engaging and profitable podcasts. As the host of The Transformation Blueprint podcast, his mission it to transform positive ambition into exponential growth. Through the podcast, he interviews inspiring impact makers to extract the lessons, tools, and experiences 9-5 working professionals can use to transform their future through entrepreneurship. – Connect with me on: Instagram - @pastennett Facebook - @paulstennett LinkedIn - Paul Stennett Twitter - @pastennett The Transformation Blueprint Podcast - http://ttb.show Podcast Concierge Website - https://amazinggains.net - Credits: Producer – Alexandra Stennett Host – Paul Stennett Editors – Amazing Gains Videographer – Nigel Austin Location provided by Bookophilia Video recording provided by Muse Agency Music licensed from Audioblocks and Audiojungle

Scott Dunn Episode. Scott is the managing director of Dream Weekend. He is a businessman with over a decade of experience in planning events. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thetopformpodcast/support

The sports media landscape is on shaky ground right now. Publishers are laying off employees and the paths to monetization aren’t as easy as they were five years ago. Rob Cressy is joined by Scott Dunn as they dish about what’s wrong with the sports media landscape. Why aren’t more sports media publishers adopting a community engagement model like Barstool Sports? With banner ad revenue decreasing is moving over to a subscription model like The Athletic going to be the next big trend? Why have brands not adopted podcasting and audio storytelling quicker? - In each episode of The Sports Marketing Huddle, Rob Cressy, Founder of Bacon Sports & Cress Media, gives a forward-thinking perspective on some of the hottest topics in the world of sports marketing and then gives actionable advice on how you can implement it into your business. Our goal of the podcast is to create the best sports marketing podcast and take The Sports Marketing Huddle up to #1 on iTunes New & Noteworthy. One way you can help support the show is by subscribing to The Sports Marketing Huddle on iTunes and letting your friends who are in the sports and marketing worlds know about it. Your feedback is super important to us. We want to make sure that we deliver value for you and make this the best sports marketing show possible. You can connect with Rob & today’s guest on social media and let us know what you think (good or bad): Rob Cressy - LinkedIn: /cressy/ - Twitter: @RobCressy - Instagram: @rob_cressy - Facebook: /RobCressyBiz/ Scott Dunn - LinkedIn: /ssd5030/ - Twitter: @_SDunn_ Websites: Cress Media: www.cressmedia.com Bacon Sports: www.baconsports.com Other Awesome Content: Check out The Rob Cressy Show on iTunes, where I have conversations with creators, entrepreneurs, and business leaders about their success mindset and excellence. Check out Growing Bold on YouTube, Bold Worldwide CEO Brian Cristiano’s video journey of building a $100 million agency.

Sean Rafferty with highlights from across the week on In Tune. American opera star, Joyce DiDonato, came in to talk about her new disc and why she is so passionate about it, Jools Holland was in the studio telling us about his duets al fresco with birds on the Kent marshes, conductors Rumon Gamba and Scott Dunn on why Richard Rodney Bennett was such a special composer, and the home-grown talent that is mezzo-soprano Sarah Connolly gave us some Britten along with Joseph Middleton on piano.

In memory of Jean Tabaka. Recorded at the Scrum Alliance's Global Scrum Gathering in Orlando, FL, this episode features nine voices. Vic (@AgileCoffee) was joined by eight fellow participants (all working with Agile/Scrum teams) to discuss some highlights of the gathering. Guests list: Stuart Young (@Stuartliveart) Laura Powers (@poweredbyteams) Kim Brainard (@agilebrain1) Stuart Fish (@fishstua) Jamie Crews (@jamie_crews) Anderson Hummel (@anderson_hummel) Scott Dunn (@sdunnrocket9) David Gardner Karaoke pics: coming soon Vic rocks the karaoke stage?

We did it. You did it. I did it. It was done. What is IT? 100 episodes! Woo hoo! This episode of the School Of Laughs podcast is brought to you by Chelle Baxter, Peter Margaritas, Sandi Joy Chadwick and John Charlton - thanks! It is crazy to think that a couple of years ago we started this journey together. When we did, I had no idea that we would make it to 100 episodes of the School Of Laughs podcast. I hoped to. Just didn't know if it was going to be something I could pull off. What a ride! With help from Gavin Miller, the ball got rolling and rolling and ... I've learned a lot! Hopefully you have as well. We've listened to jokes go from the brainstorming phase to the stage. We've talked with Letterman comics like Jeff Caldwell, Keith Alberstadt and Andy Hendrickson. We heard from Tonight Show regular Nate Bargatze and his dad Stephen. Comedy Central comedians Robert Mac, Luis Ramey and Pat McGann also shared insights. Seasoned veterans Jeff Jena, Jeff Allen and Dan Swartout also shared many golden nuggets of information about becoming a comedian. We also heard from folks who write for TV like Martha Bolton and Scott Dunn. We learned booking tips from Tim Grable and Midwest Clean Comedy. We know now what it takes to record a CD, and a DVD as well as how to put on your own shows. Former students (Monty Mitchell, Jonnie W., Brian Bates, Chris Cherry, Mike James, and Paulina Combow) stopped by to share their successes. WOW. So where do we go from here? The plan is to continue for the next three months and see if there is enough interest and support through PATREON (see below) to continue. If so, we will lock in for another full year. If not, we will ride on into the sunset and sleep well knowing we gave it our all. On today's episode, I reflect back on the past year and what lies ahead. Specifically, I talk about: The Broken record Comedy Show with Chad Riden Listener feedback emails from YOU the listener What it takes to put together a podcast My favorite episodes from the first 100 We check in with Gavin Miller And a lot more. Thank you so much for listening and I hope to continue to provide you with beneficial information and tactical strategies for becoming BIGGER, BETTER and MORE BOOKABLE! Support the podcast through PATREON A listener recently told me about Patreon and I totally love this concept. In a nutshell, in exchange for a small RECURRING monthly donation of your choice, you gain access to many extra opportunities to interact with the show. My favorite bonus is our very own, private “School Of Laughs Patreon News Feed”. Think of it as a Facebook page without all the drama. In this feed I will post exclusive articles, bonus podcasts and more. And of course, you will be invited to share ideas and support other listeners of the show! The funds would help offset the costs associated with time incurred producing the show, and at the same time give you more of what I believe you find valuable. It's up to you as far as the amount. We average 4 episodes a month and are hoping you feel like the information is worth at least $1.25 a show. So, a monthly pledge of $5 is our hope. More is great, less is still helpful. If we reach the target of 200 patrons (which is just a fraction of the overall listener downloads per episode), I think we would be on track to continue the production of the show and creating opportunities for you to grow as a performer and see definite returns on your support. In short, I want to continue to provide the podcast and reach out to bigger names, more helpful comics and incredible resources. Please VISIT www.SchoolOfLaughs.com/Patreon or www.Patron.com/SchoolOfLaughs   to find out more.  

Rik Roberts interviews comedy writer Scott Dunn about writing for comedy for TV and Rasio, as well as for other comedians. Scott has written for such television shows as Foxworthy's Big Night Out, The CMT Music Awards, The Larry “The Cable Guy” Christmas Special, “Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader, and is a consultant for the American Bible Challenge.   He has also written for The Dove awards, The CMT awards, and is also well known for also writing segments for the nationally syndicated Bob & Tom Morning Show (radio).    Our discussion leads to applicable tips and simple suggestions for helping comedians and speakers punch up their programs with humor.   For more info on Scott, visit: http://www.scottdunncomedy.com === NEVER MISS A PODCAST OR POST If you enjoy this PODCAST please subscribe in iTunes or STITCHER and leave a comment and ranking. Better yet, subscribe to the monthly School of Laughs “Insider Tips” email and get exclusive information delivered right to your inbox. It's fast, free useful and fun. Just email: SchoolOfLaughs@gmail.com and put “insider tip sheet” in the subject header. I'll make sure you get the official tip sheet and I promise to keep your email anonymous and spam free.

Clayton Lengel‑Zigich: Welcome to another episode of the Agile Weekly Podcast. I'm Clayton Lengel‑Zigich…

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