Podcast appearances and mentions of bob sutton

In this episode, I'm joined by Rebecca Hinds — organizational behavior expert and founder of the Work AI Institute at Glean — for a practical conversation about why meetings deteriorate over time and how to redesign them. Rebecca argues that bad meetings aren't a people problem — they're a systems problem. Without intentional design, meetings default to ego, status signaling, conflict avoidance, and performative participation. Over time, low-value meetings become normalized instead of fixed. Drawing on her research at Stanford University and her leadership of the Work Innovation Lab at Asana, she shares frameworks from her new book, Your Best Meeting Ever, including: The four legitimate purposes of a meeting: decide, discuss, debate, or develop The CEO test for when synchronous time is truly required How to codify shared meeting standards Why leaders must explicitly give permission to leave low-value meetings We also explore leadership, motivation, and the myth that kindness and high standards are opposites. Rebecca explains why effective leaders diagnose what drives each individual — encouragement for some, direct challenge for others — and design environments that support both performance and belonging. Finally, we talk about AI and the future of work. Tools amplify existing culture: strong systems improve, broken systems break faster. Organizations that redesign how work happens — not just what tools they use — will have the advantage. If you want to run better meetings, lead with more clarity, and rethink how collaboration actually happens, this episode is for you. You can find Your Best Meeting Ever at major bookstores and learn more at rebeccahinds.com.  00:00 Start 00:27 Why Meetings Get Worse Over Time Robin references Good Omens and the character Crowley, who designs the M25 freeway to intentionally create frustration and misery. They use this metaphor to illustrate how systems can be designed in ways that amplify dysfunction, whether intentionally or accidentally. The idea is that once dysfunctional systems become normalized, people stop questioning them. They also discuss Cory Doctorow's concept of enshittification, where platforms and systems gradually decline as organizational priorities override user experience. Rebecca connects this pattern directly to meetings, arguing that without intentional design, meetings default to chaos and energy drain. Over time, poorly designed meetings become accepted as inevitable rather than treated as solvable design problems. Rebecca references the Simple Sabotage Field Manual created by the Office of Strategic Services during World War II. The manual advised citizens in occupied territories on how to subtly undermine organizations from within. Many of the suggested tactics involved meetings, including encouraging long speeches, focusing on irrelevant details, and sending decisions to unnecessary committees. The irony is that these sabotage techniques closely resemble common behaviors in modern corporate meetings. Rebecca argues that if meetings were designed from scratch today, without legacy habits and inherited norms, they would likely look radically different. She explains that meetings persist in their dysfunctional form because they amplify deeply human tendencies like ego, status signaling, and conflict avoidance. Rebecca traces her interest in teamwork back to her experience as a competitive swimmer in Toronto. Although swimming appears to be an individual sport, she explains that success is heavily dependent on team structure and shared preparation. Being recruited to swim at Stanford exposed her to an elite, team-first environment that reshaped how she thought about performance. She became fascinated by how a group can become greater than the sum of its parts when the right cultural conditions are present. This experience sparked her long-term curiosity about why organizations struggle to replicate the kind of cohesion often seen in sports. At Stanford, Coach Lee Mauer emphasized that emotional wellbeing and performance were deeply connected. The team included world record holders and Olympians, and the performance standards were extremely high. Despite the intensity, the culture prioritized connection and belonging. Rituals like informal story time around the hot tub helped teammates build relationships beyond performance metrics. Rebecca internalized the lesson that elite performance and strong culture are not opposing forces. She saw firsthand that intensity and warmth can coexist, and that psychological safety can actually reinforce high standards rather than weaken them. Later in her career at Asana, Rebecca encountered the company value of rejecting false trade-offs. This reinforced a lesson she had first learned in swimming, which is that many perceived either-or tensions are not actually unavoidable. She argues that organizations often assume they must choose between performance and happiness, or between kindness and accountability. In her experience, these are false binaries that can be resolved through better design and clearer expectations. She emphasizes that motivated and engaged employees tend to produce higher quality work, making culture a strategic advantage rather than a distraction. Kindness versus ruthlessness in leadership Robin raises the contrast between harsh, fear-based leadership styles and more relational, positive leadership approaches. Both styles have produced winning teams, which raises the question of whether success comes because of the leadership style or despite it. Rebecca argues that resilience and accountability are essential, regardless of tone. She stresses that kindness alone is not sufficient for high performance, but neither is harshness inherently superior. Effective leadership requires understanding what motivates each individual, since some people thrive on encouragement while others crave direct challenge. Rebecca personally identifies with wanting to be pushed and appreciates clarity when her work falls short of expectations. She concludes that the most effective leaders diagnose motivation carefully and design environments that maximize both growth and performance. 08:51 Building the Book-Launch Team: Mentors, Agents, and Choosing the Right Publisher Robin asks Rebecca about the size and structure of the team she assembled to execute the launch successfully. He is especially curious about what the team actually looked like in practice and how coordinated the effort needed to be. He also asks about the meeting cadence and work cadence required to bring a book launch to life at that level. The framing highlights that writing the book is only one phase, while launching it is an entirely different operational challenge. Rebecca explains that the process felt much more organic than it might appear from the outside. She admits that at the beginning, she underestimated the full scope of what a book launch entails. Her original motivation was simple: she believed she had a valuable perspective, wanted to help people, and loved writing. As she progressed deeper into the publishing process, she realized that writing the manuscript was only one piece of a much larger system. The operational and promotional dimensions gradually revealed themselves as a second job layered on top of authorship. Robin emphasizes that writing a book and publishing a book are fundamentally different jobs. Rebecca agrees and acknowledges that the publishing side requires a completely different skill set and infrastructure. The conversation underscores that authorship is creative work, while publishing and launching require strategy, coordination, and business acumen. Rebecca credits her Stanford mentor, Bob Sutton, as a life changing influence throughout the process. He guided her step by step, including decisions around selecting a publisher and choosing an agent. She initially did not plan to work with an agent, but through guidance and reflection, she shifted her perspective. His mentorship helped her ask better questions and approach the process more strategically rather than reactively. Rebecca reflects on an important mindset shift in her career. Earlier in life, she was comfortable being the big fish in a small pond. Over time, she came to believe that she performs better when surrounded by people who are smarter and more experienced than she is. She describes her superpower as working extremely hard and having confidence in that effort. Because of that, she prefers environments where others elevate her thinking and push her further. This philosophy became central to how she built her book launch team. As Rebecca learned more about the moving pieces required for a successful campaign, she became more intentional about who she wanted involved. She sought the best not in terms of prestige alone, but in terms of belief and commitment. She wanted people who would go to bat for her and advocate for the book with genuine enthusiasm. She noticed that some organizations that looked impressive on paper were not necessarily the right fit for her specific campaign. This led her to have extensive conversations with potential editors and publicists before making decisions. Rebecca developed a personal benchmark for evaluating partners. She paid attention to whether they were willing to apply the book's ideas within their own organizations. For her, that signaled authentic belief rather than surface level marketing support. When Simon and Schuster demonstrated early interest in implementing the book's learnings internally, it stood out as meaningful alignment. That commitment suggested they cared about the substance of the work, not just the promotional campaign. As the process unfolded, Rebecca realized that part of her job was learning what questions to ask. Each conversation with potential partners refined her understanding of what she needed. She became more deliberate about building the right bench of people around her. The team was not assembled all at once, but rather shaped through iterative learning and discernment. The launch ultimately reflected both her evolving standards and her commitment to surrounding herself with people who elevated the work. 12:12 Asking Better Questions & Going Asynchronous Robin highlights the tension between the voice of the book and the posture of a first time author entering a major publishing house. He notes that Best Meeting Ever encourages people to assert authority in meetings by asking about agendas, ownership, and structure. At the same time, Rebecca was entering conversations with an established publisher as a new author seeking partnership. The question becomes how to balance clarity and conviction with humility and openness. Robin frames it as showing up with operational authority while still saying you publish books and I want to work with you. Rebecca calls the question insightful and explains that tactically she relied heavily on asking questions. She describes herself as intentionally curious and even nosy because she did not yet know what she did not know. Rather than pretending to have answers, she used inquiry as a way to build authority through understanding. She asked questions asynchronously almost daily, emailing her agent and editor with anything that came to mind. This allowed her to learn the system while also signaling engagement and seriousness. Rebecca explains that most of the heavy lifting happened outside of meetings. By asking questions over email, she clarified information before stepping into synchronous time. Meetings were then reserved for ambiguity, decision making, and issues that required real time collaboration. As a result, the campaign involved very few meetings overall. She had a biweekly meeting with her core team and roughly monthly conversations with her editor. The rest of the coordination happened asynchronously, which aligned with her philosophy about effective meeting design. Rebecca jokes that one hidden benefit of writing a book on meetings is that everyone shows up more prepared and on time. She also felt internal pressure to model the behaviors she was advocating. The campaign therefore became a real world test of her ideas. She emphasizes that she is glad the launch was not meeting heavy and that it reflected the principles in the book. Robin shares a story about their initial connection through David Shackleford. During a short introductory call, he casually offered to spend time discussing book marketing strategies. Rebecca followed up, scheduled time, and took extensive notes during their conversation. After thanking him, she did not continue unnecessary follow up or prolonged discussion. Instead, she quietly implemented many of the practical strategies discussed. Robin later observed bulk sales, bundled speaking engagements, and structured purchase incentives that reflected disciplined execution. Robin emphasizes that generating ideas is relatively easy compared to implementing them. He connects this to Seth Godin's praise that the book is for people willing to do the work. The real difficulty lies not in brainstorming strategies but in consistently executing them. He describes watching Rebecca implement the plan as evidence that she practices what she preaches. Her hard work and disciplined follow through reinforced his confidence in the book before even reading it. Rebecca responds with gratitude and acknowledges that she took his advice seriously. She affirms that several actions she implemented were directly inspired by their conversation. At the same time, the tone remains grounded and collaborative rather than performative. The exchange illustrates her pattern of seeking input, synthesizing it, and then executing independently. Robin transitions toward the theme of self knowledge and its role in leadership and meetings. He connects Rebecca's disciplined execution to her awareness of her own strengths. The earlier theme resurfaces that she sees hard work and follow through as her superpower. The implication is that effective meetings and effective leadership both begin with understanding how you operate best. 17:48 Self-Knowledge at Work Robin shares that he knows he is motivated by carrots rather than sticks. He explains that praise energizes him and improves his performance more than criticism ever could. As a performer and athlete, he appreciates detailed notes and feedback, but encouragement is what unlocks his best work. He contrasts that with experiences like old school ballet training, where harsh discipline did not bring out his strengths. His point is that understanding how you are wired takes experience and reflection. Rebecca agrees that self knowledge is essential and ties it directly to motivation. She argues that the better you understand yourself, the more clearly you can articulate what drives you. Many people, especially early in their careers, do not pause to examine what truly motivates them. She notes that motivation is often intangible and not primarily monetary. For some people it is praise, for others criticism, learning, mastery, collaboration, or autonomy. She also emphasizes that motivation changes over time and shifts depending on organizational context. One of Rebecca's biggest lessons as a manager and contributor is the importance of codifying self knowledge. Writing down what motivates you and how you work best makes it easier to communicate those needs to others. She believes this explicitness is especially critical during times of change. When work is evolving quickly, assumptions about motivation can lead to disengagement. Making preferences visible reduces friction and prevents misalignment. Rebecca references a recent presentation she gave on the dangers of automating the soul of work. She and her mentor Bob Sutton have discussed how organizations risk stripping meaning from roles if they automate without discernment. She points to research showing that many AI startups are automating tasks people would prefer to keep human. The warning is that just because something can be automated does not mean it should be. Without understanding what makes work meaningful for employees, leaders can unintentionally remove the very elements that motivate people. Rebecca believes managers should create explicit user manuals for their team members. These documents outline how individuals prefer to communicate, what motivates them, and what their career aspirations are. She sees this as a practical leadership tool rather than a symbolic exercise. Referring back to these documents helps leaders guide their teams through uncertainty and change. When asked directly, she confirms that she has implemented this practice in previous roles and intends to do so again. When asked about the future of AI, Rebecca avoids making long term predictions. She observes that the most confident forecasters are often those with something to sell. Her shorter term view is that AI amplifies whatever already exists inside an organization. Strong workflows and cultures may improve, while broken systems may become more efficiently broken. She sees organizations over investing in technology while under investing in people and change management. As a result, productivity gains are appearing at the individual level but not consistently at the team or organizational level. Rebecca acknowledges that there is a possible future where AI creates abundance and healthier work life balance. However, she does not believe current evidence strongly supports that outcome in the near term. She does see promising examples of organizations using AI to amplify collaboration and cross functional work. These examples remain rare but signal that a more human centered future is possible. She is cautiously hopeful but not convinced that the most optimistic scenario will unfold automatically. Robin notes that time horizons for prediction have shortened dramatically. Rebecca agrees and says that six months feels like a reasonable forecasting window in the current environment. She observes that the best leaders are setting thresholds for experimentation and failure. Pilots and proofs of concept should fail at a meaningful rate if organizations are truly exploring. Shorter feedback loops allow organizations to learn quickly rather than over commit to fragile long term assumptions. Robin shares a formative story from growing up in his father's small engineering firm, where he was exposed early to office systems and processes. Later, studying in a Quaker community in Costa Rica, he experienced full consensus decision making. He recalls sitting through extended debates, including one about single versus double ply toilet paper. As a fourteen year old who would rather have been climbing trees in the rainforest, the meeting felt painfully misaligned with his energy. That experience contributed to his lifelong desire to make work and collaboration feel less draining and more intentional. The story reinforces the broader theme that poorly designed meetings can disconnect people from purpose and engagement. 28:31 Leadership vs. Tribal Instincts Rebecca explains that much of dysfunctional meeting behavior is rooted in tribal human instincts. People feel loyalty to the group and show up to meetings simply to signal belonging, even when the meeting is not meaningful. This instinct to attend regardless of value reinforces bloated calendars and performative participation. She argues that effective meeting design must actively counteract these deeply human tendencies. Without intentional structure, meetings default to social signaling rather than productive collaboration. Rebecca emphasizes that leadership plays a critical role in changing meeting culture Leaders must explicitly give employees permission to leave meetings when they are not contributing. They must also normalize asynchronous work as a legitimate and often superior alternative. Without that top down permission, employees will continue attending out of fear or habit. Meeting reform requires visible endorsement from those with authority. Power dynamics and pushing back without positional authority Robin reflects on the power of writing a book on meetings while still operating within a hierarchy. He asks how individuals without formal authority can challenge broken systems. Rebecca responds that there is no universal solution because outcomes depend heavily on psychological safety. In organizations with high trust, there is often broad recognition that meetings are ineffective and a desire to fix them. In lower trust environments, change must be approached more strategically and indirectly. Rebecca advises employees to lead with curiosity rather than confrontation. Instead of calling out a bad meeting, one might ask whether their presence is truly necessary. Framing the question around contribution rather than judgment reduces defensiveness. This approach lowers the emotional temperature and keeps the conversation constructive. Curiosity shifts the tone from personal critique to shared problem solving. In psychologically unsafe environments, Rebecca suggests shifting enforcement to systems rather than individuals. Automated rules such as canceling meetings without agendas or without sufficient confirmations can reduce personal friction. When technology enforces standards, it feels less like a personal attack. Codified rules provide employees with shared language and objective criteria. This reduces the perception that opting out is a rejection of the person rather than a rejection of the structure. Rebecca argues that every organization should have a clear and shared definition of what deserves to be a meeting. If five employees are asked what qualifies as a meeting, they should give the same answer. Without explicit criteria, decisions default to habit and hierarchy. Clear rules give employees confidence to push back constructively. Shared standards transform meeting participation from a personal negotiation into a procedural one. Rebecca outlines a two part test to determine whether a meeting should exist. First, the meeting must serve one of four purposes which are to decide, discuss, debate, or develop people. If it does not satisfy one of those four categories, it likely should not be a meeting. Even if it passes that test, it must also satisfy one of the CEO criteria. C refers to complexity and whether the issue contains enough ambiguity to require synchronous dialogue. E refers to emotional intensity and whether reading emotions or managing reactions is important. O refers to one way door decisions, meaning choices that are difficult or costly to reverse. Many organizational decisions are reversible and therefore do not justify synchronous time. Robin asks how small teams without advanced tech stacks can automate meeting discipline. Rebecca explains that many safeguards can be implemented with existing tools such as Google Calendar or simple scripts. Basic rules like requiring an agenda or minimum confirmations can be enforced through standard workflows. Not all solutions require advanced AI tools. The key is introducing friction intentionally to prevent low value meetings from forming. Rebecca notes that more advanced AI tools can measure engagement, multitasking, or participation. Some platforms now provide indicators of attention or involvement during meetings. While these tools are promising, they are not required to implement foundational meeting discipline. She cautions against over investing in shiny tools without first clarifying principles. Metrics are useful when they reinforce intentional design rather than replace it. Rebecca highlights a subtle risk of automation, particularly in scheduling. Tools can be optimized for the sender while increasing friction for recipients. Leaders should consider the system level impact rather than only individual efficiency. Productivity gains at the individual level can create hidden coordination costs for the team. Meeting automation should be evaluated through a collective lens. Rebecca distinguishes between intrusive AI bots that join meetings and simple transcription tools. She is cautious about bots that visibly attend meetings and distract participants. However, she supports consensual transcription when it enhances asynchronous follow up. Effective transcription can reduce cognitive load and free participants to engage more deeply. Used thoughtfully, these tools can strengthen collaboration rather than dilute it. 41:35 Maker vs. Manager: Balancing a Day Job with a Book Launch Robin shares an example from a webinar where attendees were asked for feedback via a short Bitly link before the session closed. He contrasts this with the ineffectiveness of "smiley face/frowny face" buttons in hotel bathrooms—easy to ignore and lacking context. The key is embedding feedback into the process in a way that's natural, timely, and comfortable for participants. Feedback mechanisms should be integrated, low-friction, and provide enough context for meaningful responses. Rebecca recommends a method inspired by Elise Keith called Roti—rating meetings on a zero-to-five scale based on whether they were worth attendees' time. She suggests asking this for roughly 10% of meetings to gather actionable insight. Follow-up question: "What could the organizer do to increase the rating by one point?" This approach removes bias, focuses on attendee experience, and identifies meetings that need restructuring. Splits in ratings reveal misaligned agendas or attendee lists and guide optimization. Robin imagines automating feedback requests via email or tools like Superhuman for convenience. Rebecca agrees and adds that simple forms (Google Forms, paper, or other methods) are effective, especially when anonymous. The goal is simplicity and consistency—given how costly meetings are, there's no excuse to skip feedback. Robin references Paul Graham's essay on maker vs. manager schedules and asks about Rebecca's approach to balancing writing, team coordination, and book marketing. Rebecca shares that 95% of her effort on the book launch was "making"—writing and outreach—thanks to a strong team handling management. She devoted time to writing, scrappy outreach, and building relationships, emphasizing giving without expecting reciprocation. The main coordination challenge was balancing her book work with her full-time job at Asana, requiring careful prioritization. Rebecca created a strict writing schedule inspired by her swimming discipline: early mornings, evenings, and weekends dedicated to writing. She prioritized her book and full-time work while maintaining family commitments. Discipline and clear prioritization were essential to manage competing but synergistic priorities. Robin asks about written vs. spoken communication, referencing Amazon's six-page memos and Zandr Media's phone-friendly quick syncs. Rebecca emphasizes that the answer depends on context but a strong written communication culture is essential in all organizations. Written communication supports clarity, asynchronous work, and complements verbal communication. It's especially important for distributed teams or virtual work. With AI, clear documentation allows better insights, reduces unnecessary content generation, and reinforces disciplined communication. 48:29 AI and the Craft of Writing Rebecca highlights that employees have varying learning preferences—introverted vs. extroverted, verbal vs. written. Effective communication systems should support both verbal and written channels to accommodate these differences. Rebecca's philosophy: writing is a deeply human craft. AI was not used for drafting or creative writing. AI supported research, coordination, tracking trends, and other auxiliary tasks—areas where efficiency is key. Human-led drafting, revising, and word choice remained central to the book. Robin praises Rebecca's use of language, noting it feels human and vivid—something AI cannot replicate in nuance or delight. Rebecca emphasizes that crafting every word, experimenting with phrasing, and tinkering with language is uniquely human. This joy and precision in writing is not replicable by AI and is part of what makes written communication stand out. Rebecca hopes human creativity in writing and oral communication remains valued despite AI advances. Strong written communication is increasingly differentiating for executive communicators and storytellers in organizations. AI can polish or mass-produce text, but human insight, nuance, and storytelling remain essential and career-relevant. Robin emphasizes the importance of reading, writing, and physical activities (like swimming) to reclaim attention from screens. These practices support deep human thinking and creativity, which are harder to replace with AI. Rebecca uses standard tools strategically: email (chunked and batched), Google Docs, Asana, Doodle, and Zoom. Writing is enhanced by switching platforms, fonts, colors, and physical locations—stimulating creativity and perspective. Physical context (plane, café, city) is strongly linked to breakthroughs and memory during writing. Emphasis is on how tools are enacted rather than which tools are used—behavior and discipline matter more than tech. Rebecca primarily recommends business books with personal relevance: Adam Grant's Give and Take – for relational insights beyond work. Bob Sutton's books – for broader lessons on organizational and personal effectiveness. Robert Cialdini's Influence – for understanding human behavior in both professional and personal contexts. Her selections highlight that business literature often offers universal lessons applicable beyond work. 59:48 Where to Find Rebecca The book is available at all major bookstores. Website: rebeccahinds.com LinkedIn: Rebecca Hinds  

Join host Kyle Forrest and Bob Sutton and Rebecca Hinds, authors from the AI Transformation 100, as they discuss how organizations can integrate AI to amplify culture, reshape work, and instill structure, trust, and human judgement.    

AI is failing most companies, trapping employees in digital exhaustion. The real problem isn't the technology, but the organization itself. Forget fixing your models—the path to true transformation is redesigning your workflows, structure, and human collaboration to finally work with AI. In this episode, Rebecca Hinds, Head of the Work AI Institute at Glean, unpacks insights from the Work Transformation 100 study, revealing what 100+ leaders, technologists, and researchers are doing differently to make AI actually work. You'll learn how AI needs to be embedded in the flow of work, why organizational structure eats AI for breakfast, how centralization and decentralization must coexist, and how leaders can avoid automating the soul of work by preserving ownership, creativity, and accountability. Rebecca breaks down the emerging collaboration between HR and IT, the rise of agentic workflows, the role of telemetry data in measuring AI adoption, and why flattening org charts for the sake of AI often backfires. She also shares real examples of bottom-up and top-down AI change, the impact of digital exhaustion, and the critical importance of redesigning processes and incentives before redesigning technology. This episode is every CHRO's playbook to lead AI transformation with human insight, organizational clarity, and people-first strategy, not hype.   ________________ This Episode is sponsored by Glean: The AI Transformation 100 is here — Glean's Work AI Institute reveals what's really working with AI at work The AI Transformation 100, authored by Dr. Rebecca Hinds, Head of the Work AI Institute at Glean and Stanford's Bob Sutton surfaces 100 hard-won lessons from leaders actually deploying AI at scale. It's not about what AI could do — it's about what works, what fails, and what companies have to get right to make AI real. One takeaway: AI doesn't fix broken systems. It amplifies them. ________________ Start your day with the world's top leaders by joining thousands of others at Great Leadership on Substack. Just enter your email: ⁠⁠https://greatleadership.substack.com/   Future-ready organizations are built, not hoped for. My latest book, -The 8 Laws of Employee Experience shows how. Preorder here: 8EXLaws.com

Stanford professor Bob Sutton, coauthor of Scaling Up Excellence, explains how leaders can expand what's working in their organizations without letting growth dilute their success. He also shares the patterns that separate those who scale successfully from those whose early wins never catch on.

This week on the Truth Works podcast, Jessica Neal sits down with Bob Sutton, Michael Arena, and Beth Steinberg to unpack one of the most debated topics in organizational design — flat vs hierarchical structures.Drawing on lessons from companies like GM, Nvidia, and Netflix, they explore how culture, leadership, and network dynamics drive innovation and accountability. From Michael Arena's experience at General Motors to Beth Steinberg's work in shaping talent at high-growth startups, and Bob Sutton's decades of Stanford research on power and scaling — this conversation reveals what truly makes organizations thrive (or collapse) as they grow.If you've ever wondered how companies like Nvidia maintain speed and creativity without chaos, this episode is a masterclass in the art and science of organizational design.

In this episode of Truth Works, hosts Jessica Neal and Bob Sutton sit down with Laszlo Bock, a trailblazer in the world of people analytics, and the former head of HR at Google. Laszlo shares his remarkable journey, including his time at Google and his transition into entrepreneurship. The conversation dives deep into the evolution of corporate culture, how data is transforming the way we hire, and the importance of challenging the status quo to create meaningful organizational change.Laszlo also touches on some fascinating stories, including a pivotal experiment at Google to test hiring practices, and why sometimes, “constructive defiance” is a key weapon in driving positive change. With insights on the intersection of leadership, innovation, and people strategy, Laszlo offers valuable takeaways for those looking to reshape their approach to business and leadership.Tune in to hear about the power of data-driven decision-making, how to build a better workplace, and the wisdom that comes from thinking outside the box.

In this thought-provoking episode of Truth Works, organizational visionary Michele Zanini joins Jessica Neal and Bob Sutton to unpack the tyranny of bureaucracy and the bold promise of humanocracy. Co-author of the updated book Humanocracy, Michele explains why traditional management systems fail to inspire innovation, agility, or meaning—and how companies like Netflix, Roche, and even the U.S. Army are rewriting the rules.Together, they explore:Why companies become bureaucratic over timeThe flipside: unleashing resourceful people instead of controlling themRadical models of leadership, autonomy, and peer accountabilityHow culture is built through operating systems—not slogansIf you're a founder, HR leader, or executive trying to unshackle your team from inertia and unleash real human potential, this one is for you.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I'm joined by Bob Sutton, organizational psychologist and New York Times bestselling author of several influential books on leadership, behavior, and workplace culture, including his latest: The Friction Project.We explore insights from across his body of work, including real-world examples of large organizations that have figured out how to operate more effectively and ethically—despite the inherent messiness of human systems.We discuss:• Ideas from The Knowing-Doing Gap, including the importance of psychological safety and a breakdown of “the smart talk trap”• Why even the best-run companies are still flawed• The surprising number of companies owned by private foundations, including Hershey Chocolate and Ikea• How well-run organizations resist management fads while staying open to real innovation• A story from Tim Cook about critical thinking in HR—and the cost of over-hiring• “Addition sickness”: what happens when too many people work on a problem• Strategies for removing friction• The “No Asshole Rule”: why toxic leaders damage performance and morale• The best founders strike the right balance between confidence and humility •  And much more!—Brought to you by:• Ahrefs – Get instant website traffic insights, without the noise. Learn more. —Where to find Bob Sutton: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/bobsutton.net• Website: https://bobsutton.net/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(01:45) Insights from The Knowing Doing Gap(09:29) How Becky Margiotta rewarded the doers of her 100,000 homes project (12:24) An explanation of why every organization is flawed (21:32) A case for still trying to improve the way companies are run (26:03) How larger organizations always do things worse—some worse than others(27:58) A case of organizational improvement: The California Department of Motor Vehicles (29:58) Companies owned by private foundations and other unique models(33:52) Lessons from Tim Cook around thinking critically about hiring(36:26) Addition sickness(39:58) Strategies for removing friction and adding good friction (46:42) Simple practices that work(49:50) The ‘no asshole' rule(52:32) The pitfalls of holacracy and an explanation of ‘stagegate'(57:18) Why founders sometimes need to step back after scaling(1:01:09) Advice for founders who want to stay CEOs and operate in founder mode(1:04:40) The importance of ‘torchbearers' and resisting pressures for short-term gains(1:08:30) A case for doing things the right way, even if you don't have to (1:11:05) How corruption eventually degrades an organization (1:18:03) Lightning round—You can find episode references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by Pen Name.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Send us a textOur guest today is the brilliant – and the ever-curious – Dr. Cecelia Herbert, a Workplace Behavioral Scientist and a Doctor of Organizational Psychology with a career as a practitioner, academic, and consultant that spans more than two decades. After years as a senior leader in Employee Engagement at Google, she joined Qualtrics in 2019 to establish and lead XM Advisory Services in Asia Pacific, partnering with organizations across the globe to design, mature, and grow their experience management programs. As part of the global XM Institute team, Dr Herbert is focused on building a thriving community of Experience Management professionals, who are empowered and inspired to radically improve human experiences.   [03:20s] Her journey into organizational psychology [09:44s] Organizational psychology key insights [16:10s] Intersection with EQ [22:11s] Acceleration of organizational optimization in a post-pandemic world   [30:49s] Human-centric organizational transformation: ‘Often, change is done to people, not with them.'  [46:33s] Evolution of employee experience  [51:28s] RWL: Cecelia's recommendations of resources from experts like Bob Sutton, Adam Grant and Linda Gratton   Connect with Cecelia on LinkedInConnect with Vinay on X (formerly Twitter) and LinkedIn What did you think about this episode? What would you like to hear more about? Or simply, write in and say hello! podcast@c2cod.comSubscribe to us on your favorite platforms – Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Tune In Alexa, Amazon Music, Pandora, TuneIn + Alexa, Stitcher, Jio Saavn and more.  This podcast is sponsored by C2C-OD, your Organizational Development consulting partner ‘Bringing People and Strategy Together'. Follow @c2cod on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook 

Being the boss isn't about power trips—it's about leaving your jerk card at the door. Turns out, surviving the workplace often comes down to one simple rule: don't be an asshole. Kim Scott and Amy Sandler sit down with Stanford's Bob Sutton, author of The No Asshole Rule and The Friction Project, to talk about how real leadership means treating people like people, not just cogs in a machine. Bob gets straight to the point about why toxic behavior kills productivity, how organizational “friction” can be both helpful and harmful, and what it takes to build teams that fight fair and thrive together. They also tackle why efficient isn't always effective, how to spot—and stop—assholes before they do lasting damage, and why the best bosses aren't afraid to show up with both candor and care. As Kim puts it, sometimes it's better to have a hole than an asshole. Whether you're leading a team or just trying to survive one, this conversation is your reminder that treating people with decency is never optional—and if you're stuck choosing between keeping an asshole or leaving a hole, always go with the hole. Get all of the show notes at RadicalCandor.com/podcast. Episode Links: Transcript Radical Friction: The Editor/Author Relationship Books | Bob Sutton Work Matters | Bob Sutton How To Get A Radically Candid Boss | Radical Candor Podcast 3 | 12 Don't Let A Bad Boss Derail You | Radical Candor Podcast 6 | 18 Are Assholes More Effective? Bob Sutton Weighs In Website Instagram TikTok LinkedIn Facebook YouTube Chapters:(00:00:00) IntroductionKim and Amy introduce Stanford Professor Emeritus Bob Sutton.(00:01:35) The No Asshole Rule Origin StoryHow Bob's research into organizational decline led to a focus on workplace jerks.(00:07:02) Layoffs Done Right (And Wrong)Kim and Bob trade stories on compassionate vs. catastrophic layoffs.(00:11:16) Good Friction vs. Bad FrictionThe Friction Project and why not all efficiency is actually efficient(00:16:23) Building Emotional TrustHow emotional trust grows and fuels creative partnerships.(00:24:58) The Asshole Survival Guide: 4 Ways to DealStrategies for handling difficult people and navigating toxic environments.(00:29:50) Certified vs. Clueless AssholesRecognizing the moments when you might actually be the asshole.(00:33:47) It Happens at the Listener's EarHow context shapes whether something feels candid or cruel.(00:38:59) Decision-Making, Simplicity & ReversibilityQuestions friction-fixers ask to decide when to slow down or speed up.(00:46:15) Gossip as a Strategic ToolThe ways gossip can help you avoid toxic work environments.(00:52:03) Fixing Friction at StanfordBob shares his current work helping Stanford reduce internal friction.(00:55:54) Where to Find Bob SuttonWhere to find Bob and his books — plus a final note on long emails.(00:56:50) Conclusion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chief Human Resources Officer at L'Oréal USA, Stephanie Kramer joins Patty and Jessica this week to talk about her unconventional journey into HR, emphasizing the importance of communication, community, and identity. They also explore the impact parenthood can have on your career as Stephanie shares insights from her book, "Carry Strong," about navigating pregnancy mid-career and maintaining a work-life balance. Find out more about Stephanie's book Carry Strong here. Listen to the Bob Sutton episode here.Do you have an ongoing work issue you need guidance solving? Or maybe you want to know how Patty and Jess would have dealt with a past problem. Share your stories and questions with our producers here.TruthWorks is hosted by Jessica Neal and Patty McCord. The show is edited, mixed and produced by Megan Hayward. Our Production Manager is Kathleen Speckert. TruthWorks is an editaudio production.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of the Culture First podcast, host Damon Klotz speaks with Bob Sutton, an organizational psychologist, Stanford management professor, and New York Times best-selling author. They discuss the negative impacts of power differences within organizations, the concept of destructive and constructive friction, and the critical role of leadership in mitigating such friction. The episode delves into Bob Sutton's latest work on 'The Friction Project' and explores how effective leaders can navigate cultural challenges. Additionally, they discuss Bob's famous 'No Asshole Rule,' exploring the detrimental effects of toxic behaviors in the workplace and the importance of building supportive and psychologically safe work environments. The conversation is enriched with real-life examples from companies like Google, Microsoft, and Pixar, along with valuable insights and actionable advice for transforming workplace culture.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On this week's Tech Nation, Moira speaks with Stanford Professors, Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao, talk about their book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.” Then, is your personal technology doing more than you bargained for? Duke University Professor Nita Farahany talks about “The Battle for Your Brain … Defending the Right to Think Freely in the Age of Neurotechnology.”

On this week's Tech Nation, Moira speaks with Stanford Professors, Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao, talk about their book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.” Then, is your personal technology doing more than you bargained for? Duke University Professor Nita Farahany talks about “The Battle for Your Brain … Defending the Right to Think Freely in the Age of Neurotechnology.”

Discover how reshaping workplace dynamics can lead to more harmonious environments with insights from our special guest, David Dilger, co-founder of Edge Legal. David shares his journey from law to human resources, all with the mission to create organizations where leaders are role models and work cultures are free from legal fears. Drawing inspiration from thought leaders like Aristotle and Simon Sinek, we unravel the importance of self-awareness in leadership and how the platinum rule can significantly improve leadership effectiveness.We tackle the age-old problem of "toxic rock stars" in the workplace, those high performers who might actually be doing more harm than good. With insights inspired by Bob Sutton, we discuss the hidden costs these individuals impose on team morale and organizational growth. Learn practical strategies for addressing these issues without unnecessary legal fears, and discover the power of balancing performance management with empathy and care to foster a healthy and productive workplace.The episode also highlights the critical importance of regular one-on-one meetings between managers and employees. Drawing on research from Dr. Kevin Gilmartin, we explore how maintaining consistent, supportive communication can avoid counterproductive stress responses. Delve into the concept of psychosocial safety, as explained by Tim Clark, to understand how creating an inclusive and open workplace atmosphere can transform dynamics and lead to a more engaged and satisfied workforce. Join us as we emphasize the need for people-centric organizations and the pivotal role people play in understanding the true essence of business.

The Friction Project by Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao is one of the most important books I have read this year and highly recommend to people in the industry who deal with friction at workplace day in day out. It tells us how to identity good friction and bad friction and how we can try being friction fixers. Here is my review If you are listening on Spotify please share add your thoughts there. If not on Spotify email me your thoughts to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠penpositive@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect on Social Media PenPositive YouTube Channel ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@PenPositive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@penpositive⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ My Professional Blog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penpositive.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ My Personal Blog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://vinodnarayan.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vinodn/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/penpositive/support

The Friction Project by Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao is one of the most important books I have read this year and highly recommend to people in the industry who deal with friction at workplace day in day out. It tells us how to identity good friction and bad friction and how we can try being friction fixers. Here is my review You can watch the Video version of this podcast on the YouTube Channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Agile Malayali YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Other Podcasts ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pahayan Media Malayalam Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Penpositive Outclass English Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vayanalokam Malayalam Book Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Master Ninja Instructor Bob Sutton joins today's host, Rob Nelson, on this latest installment of the Ninja Selling podcast to share his inspiring journey to becoming a successful real estate agent and top instructor, and discuss the transformative power of trying something new. Together they explore the importance of embracing change, both personally and professionally, and dive into Bob's pivotal decision to leave his stable mining career for real estate. The episode also introduces an exciting new learning experience—Ninja Selling at Sea—offering Ninjas the opportunity to engage in training and build community aboard a cruise ship. Listeners will discover how Bob's approach to trying new things is grounded in strategic planning and expert mentorship. From his venture into real estate to his experience breeding championship dogs, Bob highlights the significance of starting with the end in mind and breaking new endeavors into manageable steps—crawl, walk, run. The hosts emphasize how these principles can be applied to any challenge, creating a path to success whether in business, learning, or personal growth. This episode is packed with insights on innovation, community building, and achieving long-term goals through deliberate action. Embrace the change, start with intention, and the results will follow. Enjoy more great insights in the community of 16000 other Ninjas with all levels of experience who collaborate, ask and answer questions, network, and more in the Ninja Selling Podcast group on Facebook at Ninja Selling Podcast Facebook. Leave a voicemail at 208-MY-NINJA if you'd like to offer more direct feedback. Be sure to check out Ninja Selling Events for upcoming installations and other events, and if you'd like personalized help in achieving your goals, visit Ninja Coaching to connect with one of our fantastic coaches. Episode Highlights: 00:00 Bob Sutton's Journey to Real Estate Success 02:29 Transition from Mining to Real Estate 03:34 Importance of Trying Something New 05:41 Ninja Selling Goes to Sea: Ninja Sailing 06:14 Learning New Processes: Breeding Championship Dogs 09:09 Partnering with Experts for Success 10:28 Starting with the End in Mind for Effective Planning 13:16 Implementing the Crawl-Walk-Run Approach 18:00 Building Community and Mastermind Groups on the Cruise 22:56 The Value of Bringing Family and Building Relationships 26:24 Join the Ninja Selling Facebook Group and Learn More Key Takeaways: "Trying something new can lead to unexpected success. Start with small steps and build from there." "In life and business, find a guide. Someone who's been there before can shorten your learning curve." "Start with the end in mind. Work backward to create a clear path to success." "Crawl, walk, run. Begin with the basics, build habits, and soon you'll be running toward your goals." "The beauty of life is that challenges at first often become strengths later on." "Bring your squeaky wheels. Collaborate to solve the troubled parts of your journey." "Commit early. Plan ahead to enjoy your investment in yourself and your family."   Links: www.TheNinjaSellingPodcast.com Email: TSW@TheNinjaSellingPodcast.com Leave a voicemail at (208) MY-NINJA Ninja Selling www.NinjaSelling.com @ninjasellingofficial Ninja Coaching: www.NinjaCoaching.com @ninja.coaching Ninja Events www.NinjaSelling.com/Events The Ninja Selling Podcast Facebook Group Ninja Coaching Book Study Ninja Mastery Ninja Selling by Larry Kendall Ninja Sailing  

Matt Beane is a writer, professor, and advocate for fostering a harmonious coexistence between humans and machines in the workplace. His influential TED Talk from 2018 has garnered over 1.8 million views, challenging conventional perspectives on AI's role in the workforce by highlighting its divergence from traditional human skill acquisition. As a co-founder and financier of Humatics, an IoT startup connected to MIT, Matt frequently shares his insights in esteemed publications such as Wired, MIT's Technology Review, TechCrunch, Forbes, and Robohub. His latest book, The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent Machines, published by HarperCollins, has received accolades from notable figures like Adam Grant, Bob Sutton, Professor Ethan Mollick, and Reid Hoffman. Matt holds both a PhD and a master's degree from MIT's Sloan School of Management, along with a BA in philosophy from Bowdoin College. We are thrilled to welcome Matt to this episode of AI and the Future of Work. In this conversation, we discuss:The winding, non-linear career path that led to Matt's research on technology, skill-building, and the future of work—from dishwasher to high school math teacher to MIT researcher.How the advent of new technologies, like smartphones and email, changed workplace dynamics and the way teams interact.The "Skill Code" and the three Cs of learning—Challenge, Complexity, and Connection—and how these elements are crucial for building reliable skills under pressure.The difference between knowledge and skill, and why skill development requires more than just education—it requires real-world application, collaboration, and engagement.Matt's ethnographic approach to understanding work in diverse settings, from warehouses to operating rooms, and how he builds trust to gain insights into how people perform their jobs.The role of motivation, human relationships, and trust in skill-building, and how these factors drive us to improve and master new tasks.ResourcesSubscribe to the AI & The Future of Work NewsletterConnect with MattAI fun fact articleOn using AI to prevent students from cheatingBruce Feiler on AI and the Future of Work

Theology is not just for Sunday mornings, Bible Studies, and seminary classrooms. We all do theology every day. Every time we ponder who God is, what He's like, how He interacts with us, and how our lives are part of His purposes, we're being theologians. This podcast series will explore the lives and stories of Houston's "Everyday Theologians" and how their faith informs and affects their day-to-day lives.

In this episode of Remarkable People, join host Guy Kawasaki as he engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Bob Sutton, a renowned organizational psychologist, best-selling author, and professor emeritus at Stanford University. Together, they explore the intricacies of organizational behavior, leadership, and workplace dynamics. Sutton shares insights from his latest book, "The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder," challenging conventional wisdom about efficiency and productivity. Discover how to identify and eliminate bad friction while cultivating good friction in your organization. From the science of assholes to the art of savoring, this episode offers practical wisdom for leaders, managers, and anyone looking to create more effective and humane workplaces. Learn how to navigate the complexities of modern organizations and champion a new era of leadership that prioritizes both productivity and people.---Guy Kawasaki is on a mission to make you remarkable. His Remarkable People podcast features interviews with remarkable people such as Jane Goodall, Marc Benioff, Woz, Kristi Yamaguchi, and Bob Cialdini. Every episode will make you more remarkable. With his decades of experience in Silicon Valley as a Venture Capitalist and advisor to the top entrepreneurs in the world, Guy's questions come from a place of curiosity and passion for technology, start-ups, entrepreneurship, and marketing. If you love society and culture, documentaries, and business podcasts, take a second to follow Remarkable People. Listeners of the Remarkable People podcast will learn from some of the most successful people in the world with practical tips and inspiring stories that will help you be more remarkable. Episodes of Remarkable People organized by topic: https://bit.ly/rptopology Listen to Remarkable People here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/guy-kawasakis-remarkable-people/id1483081827 Like this show? Please leave us a review -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally! Thank you for your support; it helps the show!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today, Adam Grant and Bob Sutton, two legends of organizational psychology, discuss Bob's new book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.”

This is one of the interviews for my "Leadership Biz Cafe" podcast that I couldn't wait to share - my interview with Stanford professor and all-around great guy, Bob Sutton.Bob is an organizational psychologist, Stanford professor, and best-selling author of “The No Asshole Rule”, “Good Boss, Bad Boss”, and “Scaling Up Excellence”.My conversation with Bob revolved around his latest book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder”, and this simple question - why are some organizations able to effortlessly adapt and transform to meeting changing market conditions, while others seem to be held back by the very processes that are meant to help get things done?Based on 7 years of research, Bob discovered that it all comes down to learning how to be a "friction fixer" who understands the difference between "good friction" and "bad friction".While I was (obviously) expecting Bob to be an incredibly insightful and well-informed guest on organizational culture – I hadn't expected to laugh as much as Bob and I did before, during, and after we went on the air.Listening to this episode, it's hard not to feel an undercurrent of warmth over the course of the episode, which gives this episode a lovely feel-good mood paired alongside fantastic insights and hilarious stories about how leaders can become “friction fixers” to improve the way their organization works.And at the end, Bob shares with me one of the best and kindest compliments I've ever received about my work. If only there was a way to hang an audio clip up on the refrigerator door....In other words, come for the laughs, stay for thought-provoking ideas you'll learn in this engaging conversation. Noteworthy links: Buy Bob's book “The Friction Project” on Amazon*Learn more about Bob's work: https://www.bobsutton.net/Read Tanveer's article mentioned during the episode: "Encouraging Your Employees To Reach For The Moon" https://tanveernaseer.com/encouraging-your-employees-to-reach-for-the-moon/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week we're joined by both authors of ⁠The Friction Project⁠. Bob Sutton is a Stanford Professor, organizational researcher, and best-selling author. His seven management books include bestsellers The No A**hole Rule, Good Boss, Bad Boss, and (with Huggy Rao) Scaling Up Excellence.  Huggy Rao is also a Stanford Professor of organizational behavior, a best-selling author and a highly accomplished researcher with more accolades than will tightly fit in this intro.  Together they consult with some of the biggest brands and leaders in the world to eliminate friction, the mundane, the unnecessary and above all the meeting that could have been a Slack message. 

Professors Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao visit Google to discuss their book “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.” This book is a useful guide to eliminating the forces that make it harder, more complicated, or downright impossible to get things done in organizations. Every organization is plagued by destructive friction. Yet some forms of friction are incredibly useful, and leaders who attempt to improve workplace efficiency often make things even worse. Drawing from seven years of hands-on research, Sutton and Rao teach readers how to become “friction fixers.” Sutton and Rao unpack how skilled friction fixers think and act like trustees of each others' time. They provide friction forensics to help readers identify where to avert and repair bad organizational friction and where to maintain and inject good friction. The heart of the book digs into the causes and solutions for five of the most common and damaging friction troubles: oblivious leaders, addition sickness, broken connections, jargon monoxide, and fast & frenzied people and teams. Sound familiar? Sutton and Rao are here to help. They wrap things up with lessons for leading your own friction project, including linking little things to big things; the power of civility, caring, and love for propelling designs and repairs; and embracing the mess that is an inevitable part of the process. Visit http://youtube.com/TalksAtGoogle/ to watch the video.

Is it better to prioritize making tasks quick and easy, or should you consider making them slower and more difficult? Bob Sutton suggests smart leaders can make the right things easier and the wrong things harder. Sutton joins Kevin to discuss the challenges faced by organizations as they grow, emphasizing the importance of recognizing both good and bad friction within teams and processes. He highlights the need to balance speed and thoroughness in decision-making, using examples like Google's hiring process evolution and the impact of inefficient workflows on employee morale and productivity. He also touches on leadership approaches like "management walking out of the room" to foster collaboration and decision-making and common traps organizations fall into, such as "addition sickness," where the default solution to problems is adding complexity instead of subtracting unnecessary elements. Meet Robert Robert's Story:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/ This Episode is brought to you by... The Long-Distance Team. Remote leadership experts, Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel, help leaders navigate the new world of remote and hybrid teams to design the culture they desire for their teams and organizations in their new book! Book Recommendations The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder by Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao  Hack Your Bureaucracy: Get Things Done No Matter What Your Role on Any Team Paperback by Marina Nitze and Nick Sinai  Like this? The System is the Secret with Jim Butler How to Stop Complacency and Improve Performance with Len Herstein Hack Your Bureaucracy with Nick Sinai Join Our Community If you want to view our live podcast episodes, hear about new releases, or chat with others who enjoy this podcast join one of our communities below. Join the Facebook Group Join the LinkedIn Group Leave a Review If you liked this conversation, we'd be thrilled if you'd let others know by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Here's a quick guide for posting a review. Review on Apple: https://remarkablepodcast.com/itunes  Podcast Better! Sign up with Libsyn and get up to 2 months free! Use promo code: RLP  

This week hosts Patty McCord and Jessica Neal are joined by professor and friend of the podcast, Robert Sutton. Bob teaches Organizational Psychology in the Stanford engineering school and is the author of 8 bestselling books. In this episode he discusses his most recent book “The Friction Project” and how to mitigate bad friction in an enterprise while introducing good friction. Listen in to discover effective leadership strategies for reducing friction in the workplace. Links:https://www.bobsutton.net/Do you have an ongoing work issue you need guidance solving? Or maybe you want to know how Patty and Jess would have dealt with a past problem. Share your stories and questions with our producers here.TruthWorks is hosted by Jessica Neal and Patty McCord. The show is edited, mixed and produced by Megan Hayward and Mik Finnegan. Our Production Manager is Kathleen Speckert. TruthWorks is an editaudio production.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Every organization is plagued by destructive friction—the forces that make it harder, more complicated, or downright impossible to get anything done. Yet some forms of friction are incredibly useful, and leaders who attempt to improve workplace efficiency often make things even worse. Drawing from seven years of hands-on research, The Friction Project by bestselling authors Robert I. Sutton and Huggy Rao teaches readers how to become “friction fixers,” so that teams and organizations don't squander the zeal, damage the health, and throttle the creativity and productivity of good people—or burn through cash and other precious resources.  Sutton and Rao kick off the book by unpacking how skilled friction fixers think and act like trustees of others' time. They provide friction forensics to help readers identify where to avert and repair bad organizational friction and where to maintain and inject good friction. Then their help pyramid shows how friction fixers do their work, which ranges from reframing friction troubles they can't fix right now so they feel less threatening to designing and repairing organizations. The heart of book digs into the causes and solutions for five of the most common and damaging friction troubles: oblivious leaders, addition sickness, broken connections, jargon monoxide, and fast and frenzied people and teams. Sound familiar?  Sutton and Rao are here to help.  They wrap things up with lessons for leading your own friction project, including linking little things to big things; the power of civility, caring, and love for propelling designs and repairs; and embracing the mess that is an inevitable part of the process (while still trying to clean it up).***The Burleson Box is brought to you by Retainer Club:Realize new revenue in your practice this year with Retainer Club! Upgrading your retainer program has never been more straightforward. Patients want online and easy. You want simple and profitable. Retainer Club gives you both. Built by dental professionals, Retainer Club's technology platform is built to manage everything about your retainer program including billing, retainer fulfillment, KPI data and more.Retainer Club's customized Smile Care Plan allows you to offer a flexible membership program that brings 5 new revenue streams to grow your practice. Retainer Club's platform gives patients access to easy, fast, affordable online retainer ordering 24/7, and regular retainer replacement without ever having to call your office.On average, a Smile Care Plan can increase your practice revenue by $100,000 annually. We have built our program with first-hand industry insights to support the needs of practices and DSOs from the ground up. From on-boarding and client success planning to tech-enabled marketing solutions to support new patient growth, Retainer Club has you covered. Get started today at RetainerClub.com***Resources Mentioned in the Episode with Bob Sutton:Subtract by Leidy KlotzBobSutton.netThe Friction ProjectEd Catmull at PixarAndy Grove at IntelIdeo'Armeetingeddon' at DropBoxJAMA 2019 study on doctor time allocation***Go Premium: Members get early access, ad-free episodes, hand-edited transcripts, exclusive study guides, special edition books each quarter, powerpoint and keynote presentations and two tickets to Dustin Burleson's Annual Leadership Retreat.http://www.theburlesonbox.com/sign-up Stay Up to Date: Sign up for The Burleson Report, our weekly newsletter that is delivered each Sunday with timeless insight for life and private practice. Sign up here:http://www.theburlesonreport.com Follow Dustin Burleson, DDS, MBA at:http://www.burlesonseminars.com

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.    This week I have the honor and privilege of welcoming Bob Sutton to the show. We've been social media buddies for many, many years and I thought it was about time that Bob would join me on the podcast.    Bob is an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering at the Stanford Engineering School. He has written eight books, including his latest, The Friction Project, which is what we're going to talk about today. He also wrote other bestselling books, including The No Asshole Rule; Good Boss, Bad Boss, and Scaling Up Excellence.    THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR… any leader or individual contributor who wants to become a friction fixer in their sphere of influence.   TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE… there's friction in every organization. Some friction is good and fosters creativity and innovation but bad friction can seriously impede progress. Often, areas of friction are unresolved for long periods of time and if they get attention, it's often by addition, which just piles on layers of complexity. Bob strips things back and describes how anybody at any level can make a difference in reducing inefficiencies.   WHAT I LOVE MOST… Bob's example of how the DMV has reduced friction through a single person, a greeter, who helps cut down the dreaded time that people spend waiting. As Bob says, “If the DMV can do it, so you can you!”.   Running Time: 27:27   Subscribe on iTunes   Find Tiffani Online: Facebook Twitter LinkedIn   Find Bob Online: Website    Bob's Book:  The Friction Project  

Do you feel like you're hitting a wall at work? This week, Anne and Frances are joined by Master Fixers Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao. Bob and Huggy are professors at Stanford University and authors of “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder”. Together, the four discuss how anyone can eliminate the obstacles to doing their best work—and create constraints that make work even better. Transcripts for Fixable are available at go.ted.com/fixablescripts.

Why resistance isn't always a bad thing.Friction — that's Professor Huggy Rao's metaphor for the forces that hamper workplace efficiency. But as he says, some friction can be helpful — if you know how to use it.In his book, The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, Rao and coauthor Robert I. Sutton explore how operational obstacles show up in the workplace and, more importantly, what we can do about them. Through what Rao calls “friction fixing,” leaders can “take out the bad friction to make the right things easy to do [and] put in good friction to make the wrong things harder [to do].”As Rao discusses with host Matt Abrahams on this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, leaders can eliminate bad friction through good communication. “Communication matters a lot,” he says. “The simple rule is, make sure a 10-year-old can understand it on the first try.”Episode Reference Links:Huggy Rao: Website Huggy's Books: The Friction Project, Scaling Up Excellence, & Market Rebels Huggy's Successful Communication Recipe - “Ah! Aha! Haha!” by Ramji Raghavan Ep.14: Be Better at Work: How to Communicate Better with Coworkers and Employees: Website / YouTubeConnect:Email Questions & Feedback >>> thinkfast@stanford.eduEpisode Transcripts >>> Think Fast Talk Smart WebsiteNewsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>> FasterSmarter.ioThink Fast Talk Smart >>> LinkedIn Page, Instagram, YouTubeMatt Abrahams >>> LinkedInStanford GSB >>> LinkedIn & TwitterChapters:(00:00:00) IntroductionHost Matt Abrahams introduces guest, Huggy Rao, and his latest book on the importance of focusing on friction to become our best selves.(00:01:24) Scaling Mindsets and CommunicationInsights on scaling excellence and the critical role of simple communication in fostering the right mindset.(00:04:28) AstraZeneca: Scaling SimplificationA case study on simplification efforts at AstraZeneca & the gift of time that they gave their employees.(00:08:49) Understanding Friction: Terrible and WonderfulThe dual nature of friction, highlighting its role as both a hindrance and a catalyst for decision-making. (00:11:05) Jargon MonoxideComplicated jargon's impact on organizations, and the need for simplicity in communication.(00:13:03) The Art of StorytellingThe benefits & goals of storytelling, creating moral elevation & emotional connection.(00:15:12) Job Titles and AccountabilityAn experiment on the impact of personalized job titles on team performance and accountability in tech startups and the introduction of “good friction”.(00:17:57) The Final Three QuestionsHuggy shares his strategy for reducing friction in his life, a story about the communicator he most admires, Saul Alinsky, and his three ingredients for a successful communication recipe, Aah! Aha! Ha-Ha!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

No matter the organization, friction is inevitable...but the key is knowing how to navigate and harness it for better leadership. In today's discussion I sit down with Bob Sutton, Stanford professor, organizational psychologist and best selling author of books including “The No A$$hole Rule” and “The Friction Project” as he dives into the world of ‘friction-fixer' leadership. Drawing from his extensive research, Sutton shares how to distinguish between beneficial and detrimental friction, explore the tools of ‘friction forensics,' and implement strategies that can streamline processes, enhance performance, and reduce burnout. Join us for a captivating discussion that equips leaders with actionable tactics to conquer challenges and embrace positive change. ________________ Start your day with the world's top leaders by joining thousands of others at Great Leadership on Substack. Just enter your email: ⁠⁠https://greatleadership.substack.com/

Can you remember a time when it felt like things at work were unjustifiably and annoyingly hard? Maybe you had to read a 1000-word email that could have been just one paragraph, or had to attend a two-hour meeting that could have been an email. Or maybe you had to manually input data although the process should have been automated ages ago. The reality is that every workplace is clogged with this type of destructive friction—the time-consuming, and soul-crushing practices that drive us crazy and undermine our ability to achieve meaningful goals. I imagine that at the global scale, millions of hours must get lost every day to red tape, workarounds that shouldn't have to exist in the first place, and to misguided leaders who pile on needless complexity. My guest today, Professor Bob Sutton has been so fascinated by the friction we experience in organisations that he researched it for a decade. His work resulted in a book co-authored with Huggy Rao, The Friction Project. Bob Sutton is an organizational psychologist and Professor of Management Science and Engineering at Stanford University.  He studies leadership, innovation, organizational change, and workplace dynamics.  His main focus over the past decade is on scaling and leading at scale—how to grow organizations, spread good things (and remove bad things) in teams and organizations. In this conversation, Bob Sutton and I talk about how to identify good and bad friction in an organization and how to make the right things easier and the wrong things harder. You can follow Bob Sutton on LinkedIn. You can find the transcript HERE. Join the CultureBrained® Community– a one-of-a-kind virtual community for Heads of Culture, founders, and leaders who want to up their culture game. Check out more of our free resources 

Why is friction both good and bad for your organization How can leaders identify and reduce bad friction?My guest on this episode is Bob Sutton who is an organizational psychologist, professor emeritus at Stanford, New York Times bestselling author, and speaker.During our conversation Bob and I discuss:Why you should think like a “friction fixer” regardless of your positionWhen and how to apply “good friction” to slow things down for better decision makingHow to identify good and bad friction in your organizationWhy empathetic leaders seek out the “friction” in their organizations and then work to reduce itHow to play the “subtraction game” and how it can help your organizationConnecting with Bob SuttonConnect with Bob Sutton on LinkedInLearn more about Bob and his latest book, “The Friction Project”

Bob Sutton, Professor at Stanford University, is a New York Times bestselling author of 9 books including his most recent, with co-author Huggy Rao, titled The Friction Project. Bob co-founded Stanford's Center for Work, Technology, and Organization, the Stanford Technology Ventures Program, and the “d school.” Bob has served as an advisor to McKinsey, Bain, and Microsoft, as a Fellow at IDEO, and as faculty at the World Economic Forum, and he is currently a Senior Scientist at Gallup. Bob has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in more than 20 countries and has been a guest on numerous radio and television shows, including ABC, Bloomberg, BBC, CNBC, Fox, NBC Today Show, PBS, NPR, Marketplace, and CNN. In this episode we discuss the following: The best leaders see themselves as trustees of other's time. As Bob told his employer at Stanford, and even a Google executive yesterday, “If the California DMV can be trustees of our time, you can do it for your employees too.” At the CA DMV, Bob showed up at 7:30 am, and 60 people were in front of him. Bob was thrilled when he saw a worker walking each row passing out forms, prepping people for their visit, and re-routing those in the wrong line. This DMV hero was a trustee of other peoples' time (and Bob was out in less than an hour). Our natural tendency is to add things to anything we do, whether it's a recipe, a vacation, or our jobs. But when we switch to the subtraction mindset, we can vastly improve things. Switch to the subtraction mindset: In the state of Michigan there was a form that 2.5 million residents filled out that had 1,000 questions. But thanks to Project Reform, the form is now 80% shorter and takes half the time. Lead with love. Starting with love, and then building the logistics behind it, can lead to vastly improved experiences compared to starting with logistics. For example, when Netflix made it easy to cancel, they got much better data from their customers.   Follow Bob: Twitter: https://twitter.com/work_matters LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/ Website: https://www.bobsutton.net/ Follow Me: Twitter: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Bob Sutton is an organizational psychologist and bestselling author. In this zesty conversation with Adam, Bob shares insights on how to overcome friction at work. The two also discuss steps for leaders to become better listeners, the surprising advantages of inconvenience, and why it's better to be a boring leader than an a-hole boss. Transcripts for ReThinking are available at go.ted.com/RWAGscripts

Organizations too often subject their employees and customers to unnecessary friction that creates inefficiency and causes frustration. But, in some situations, friction can be a positive force, spurring more innovation and better decision-making. So how do you reduce the bad kind and embrace the good?  Stanford professors Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao have studied this problem for seven years and offer strategies for leaders at every level to help them recognize when friction is needed or not and then add or subtract accordingly. They share ample examples of people and companies getting it right. Sutton and Rao are the authors of The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, as well as the HBR article, "Rid Your Organization of Obstacles that Infuriate Everyone."

Kelly welcomes the great Bob Sutton back to the podcast. Professor Emeritus at Stanford, Bob has a new book out called “The Friction Project” which he co-wrote with Huggy Rao.  “Piles of studies show, to do creative work right, teams need to slow down, struggle, and develop a lot of bad ideas to find a […]

In The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao share insights on friction—the forces that make it harder, slower, more complicated, or even impossible to get things done in organizations.Sutton is an expert on organizational psychology at Stanford University and a best-selling author. His latest book is a culmination of a seven-year research effort on how effective organizations function without driving employees and customers crazy.Together with Martin Reeves, Chairman of BCG Henderson Institute, Sutton explores what friction is, where it comes from, and its effects - both positive and negative. They discuss the practical steps leaders and employees can take to remove and add friction in the right places. They also discuss broader implications, like whether the nature and consequences of friction will change in a world increasingly characterized by machine-machine and machine-human, rather than only human-human interactions.Key topics discussed:00:54 | What is organizational friction04:30 | The negative consequences of friction08:42 | What does good friction look like?14:14 | How to remove friction17:22 | What creates friction19:11 | Removing friction and creating problems22:04 | Is friction less problematic in a world of AI?25:26 | How can ideas about friction be applied in academia?This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Bob Sutton is an organizational psychologist and bestselling author. In this zesty conversation with Adam, Bob shares insights on how to overcome friction at work. The two also discuss steps for leaders to become better listeners, the surprising advantages of inconvenience, and why it's better to be a boring leader than an a-hole boss. Bob's latest book, The Friction Project, is out now. Transcripts for ReThinking are available at go.ted.com/RWAGscripts

Hayagreeva "Huggy" Rao, professor at Stanford University, is the author of several bestselling books, including his most recent, with co-author Bob Sutton, The Friction Project. His books have been covered in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, Inc. Magazine, Amazon, Forbes, and Washington Post among others. Huggy has also consulted with organizations such as British Petroleum, CEMEX, General Electric, IBM, Mass Mutual, American Cancer Society, the FBI and CIA. In this episode we discuss the following: Whether leaders are wasting others' time or underestimating coordination problems, they are creating bad friction that leads people to say things like, “After pouring myself into my BS work each day, I only have scraps of myself for my family.” Not all friction is bad. Creating friction for the Oakland Police Department led to less African Americans and Latinos being unjustly stopped. A leader has two primary jobs: remove obstacles that infuriate. And insert obstacles that educate. Follow Huggy X: https://twitter.com/huggyrao LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayagreevarao/ Website: https://huggyrao.com/ The Friction Project Book: https://amzn.to/48BVX3I Follow Me: X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/ Website: https://natemeikle.com

  Every organization is plagued by what Stanford University Business School professor, Bob Sutton, calls “destructive friction:” forces that make it harder, more complicated, or downright impossible to get things done. In Sutton's language, “the convoluted, time-consuming & soul-crushing gyrations that drive people crazy and undermine organizational performance.” Along with his co-author, SBS professor, Huggy […] The post Bob Sutton: Greasing The Skids For Organizational Success appeared first on Mark C. Crowley.

On this week's Tech Nation, Moira speaks with Stanford Professors, Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao, talk about their book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.” Then, is your personal technology doing more than you bargained for? Duke University Professor Nita Farahany talks about “The Battle for Your Brain … Defending the Right to Think Freely in the Age of Neurotechnology.”

In today's episode, we tackle friction with Bob Sutton. Bob is an organizational psychologist and professor at Stanford, a New York Times bestselling author, and is here with us to discuss his upcoming book, The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.  Bob Sutton sheds light on the double-edged sword of 'friction' in both professional and personal interactions, so why is friction a double-edged sword that you need to master to be successful, what strategies can you use to identify (and minimize) friction in your daily interactions, and how can you use positive friction as a tool to maximize your problem-solving capacity, boost productivity, and profitability? What to Listen For Introduction – 0:00 How do you identify the friction you bring to relationships that makes people not want to work with you or hang out with you? What can you learn from the California DMV about the importance of reducing friction to maximize productivity and boost customer satisfaction? 3 Ways to Make Friction a Force for Good at Work – 19:57 If friction slows things down, how do individuals and businesses use friction to amplify results? What strategies can individuals use to become friction fixers and accelerate their careers? How can understanding a company's culture of handling friction help you in job interviews? Power Poisoning and its impact on Organizational Friction – 34:00 How can leaders avoid falling into the trap of power poisoning so they don't hurt their own bottom line by introducing unnecessary friction into the organization? The Impact of AI and Technology on Organizational Friction – 44:12 What are the best practices for integrating AI into the workplace without increasing friction? How can listeners apply the insights from The Friction Project to their professional and personal lives? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“We don't want our time to be spread thin like peanut butter on a slice of toast. You will have greater impact when you concentrate your efforts on work that is closely tied to winning—however you define it.” Are you working in a frustration factory? If so, it's important to recognize that not all friction is created equal. Some is good, to slow down decision-making in crucial moments, and some is bad, getting in the way of progress. You'll need to tap into your inner “grease” and “gunk” sides to address both. In the introduction to their book, The Friction Project, coauthors Huggy Rao and Bob Sutton share a quote from Ed Catmull, former president of Pixar. He believes that if Pixar followed overreaching executives' advice to wring maximum efficiency and scale out of the organization, it would “kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.” "The goal isn't efficiency, it is to make something good or even great,” Catmull says. “We iterate seven to nine times, with friction in the process.” More About Huggy: Huggy Rao is the Atholl McBean professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a fellow of the Center for Advanced Study in Behavioral Science, the Sociological Research Association, and the Academy of Management. He has written for Harvard Business Review, Business Week, and the Wall Street Journal. He is the author of Market Rebels and coauthor of the bestselling book Scaling Up Excellence. Today we're talking about his new book, also coauthored with Bob Sutton, The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.

Former Chiefs DE Mike DeVito joins the podcast to discuss joining the Chiefs in 2013, Bob Sutton, the Colts playoff loss, the 2015 turnaround, his time with the Jets and the University of Maine. Use promo code FARZIN for $20 off SeatGeek for first time customers! Use promo code FARZIN20 for 20% off AND free shipping from ManScaped! Visit Cable Dahmer Cadillac in Kansas City! Follow Farzin on: Facebook Instagram X/Twitter TikTok Follow The Chiefs Zone on: YouTube Facebook Instagram TikTok

Order our new book, The Score That Matters, now!  https://amzn.to/41zFYku Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Commonalities of leaders who sustain excellence: Curiosity (ask lots of questions) Willingness to try something new Compassion - Assume you don't know others' struggles  Bob worked with Ed Catmull (Pixar) He was one of the best at combining curiosity, willingness to try new things, and having compassion for people Good Boss vs. Bad Boss Good bosses ask lots of questions and then make the call (John Hennessey, Stanford President)  The Jumbo Grocery Stores in Holland created “slow lanes” for those who wanted to talk… They didn't want efficiency or speed, they wanted a conversation. It's a good reminder that sometimes we should slow down and enjoy our surroundings and the people we're with… Curiosity and Compassion are skills we can build. Take the experiment where they counted the number of questions versus statements and your talking time. Surround yourself with people who will give you direct feedback about your level of curiosity and compassion… When conversing with someone else, how often are you asking questions versus talking about yourself? Think about that… It's not always right to be efficient… Bob shared the Jerry Seinfeld story… The network was considering bringing in McKinsey to help Jerry become more efficient when making his show. He asked, “Are they funny?” They said, no that's not what they do. And he said, “Then I don't need them.” It's not always supposed to be efficient. Sometimes, the hard way is the right way… To get the best result, it usually is. Some things Bob believes (we should all post an essay about what we believe): Indifference is as important as passion. The best leaders know what it feels like to work for them. They overcome the urge to focus attention on powerful superiors rather than their followers The best leaders think and act as trustees of their employees' and customers' time. They are "friction fixers" who hold themselves and others responsible for making the right things easier and the wrong things harder. That might mean, for example, reducing friction by eliminating and revamping meetings. "Am I a success or a failure?" is not useful. It is better to ask “What am I learning.” Noam Bardin (from Waze) Laszlo Bock - For hiring, "If you need to interview someone more than 4 times, then you must get written approval." This helped speed up the process. One of the roles of the leader is to be the editor-in-chief. Great leaders are great communicators. You must become a good writer and speaker if you want to lead.  Life/Career advice: Seek variation each day A chief of staff job could lead to big things (if you work for the right person) Be kind

Welcome to Grit & Growth's masterclass on friction — the good, the bad, and the ugly. Robert Sutton, Stanford professor in the School of Engineering and best-selling author, has stories and strategies to help you identify the causes of friction, eliminate it, and even learn how to use friction intentionally to create more space for success. Friction, according to Bob Sutton, “ is simply putting obstacles in front of people that slow them down, that make their jobs more difficult and maybe a little bit more frustrating.” Sutton has written multiple New York Times bestsellers, including The No Asshole Rule, and Scaling Up Excellence with coauthor and Stanford colleague Huggy Rao. His upcoming book with Rao is all about the friction that typically arises after companies scale, and it is appropriately titled The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.Sutton's research shows that friction often starts at the top. Luckily, he has lots of advice for how to become more aware of the power and influence leaders wield and tips for eliminating unwanted friction in your organization.Seven Masterclass TakeawaysAdopt a trustee mindset. According to Sutton, “Leaders should be trustees of other people's time.” This means not just trying to find ways of saving people's time, but also being aware of how you're imposing on their time. Don't be oblivious. “Leaders need to be aware of the power and influence they have,” says Sutton, because an offhand comment can send employees on a wild goose chase that costs time, energy, and money. “That's what happens when people in positions of power…are unaware of their cone of friction.” Leaders also need to acknowledge their blind spots. Many assume that because of their success, they know everything that matters about their organization; what Sutton calls the “fallacy of centrality.” Either way, what you don't know can certainly hurt you.Avoid power poisoning. “When people feel powerful or more powerful than others they tend to focus on their own needs over others and then they act like the rules don't apply to them,” Sutton says. Friction is almost always the result.Embrace inconvenience. Leaders often get the VIP treatment. They don't have to stand in line or wait on hold. But Sutton says that this “absence of inconvenience…is protecting you from the experience that your customers are facing.” If you don't feel the friction yourself, how can you address it?Play the subtraction game.Sutton suggests approaching problems with a subtraction mindset as an antidote to what he calls addition sickness. He says, “First, make a list of stuff that's getting in the way and driving you crazy. Okay, so now what are you going to do to get rid of it?”Fight friction as a team.“Friction is often an orphan problem that we point at other people, and we tell them it's their job to fix it,” Sutton says. Given the high-friction nature of friction fixing, he suggests a team effort.Remember that not all friction is bad.Sutton acknowledges that some things should be hard, like cheating, stealing, and making stupid decisions quickly. He says “Sometimes, being fast — all that does is get you killed off more quickly. The goal of getting rid of mindless, unwanted friction is to clear the way for the things in life that are hard and should be hard.”Listen to Bob Sutton's anecdotes and advice on how to recognize and remove friction in the workplace. The Friction Project will be released on January 30, and you can pre-order copies of the book now. (https://www.amazon.com/Friction-Project-Leaders-Things-Easier/dp/1250284414)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bob Sutton is an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering at the Stanford Engineering School. He has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in 20 countries, and served on numerous scholarly editorial boards focused around his work on leadership, innovation, organizational change, and workplace dynamics. His most recent book, THE FRICTION PROJECT: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, co-written with Huggy Rao is focused on scaling and leading at scale. Based on 10 years of research it outlines how to grow organizations, it suggests something really compelling: you know we all almost by default think we should be strive to build a “frictionless organization” to drive agility and efficiency. Bob points out that friction is not bad on its own. In fact, you WANT to create friction to slow down “bad” things while reducing friction to promote good things. This can enhance performance, innovation, and help make sure you fall into the trap of letting bad things grow as the company scales. _________________________________________________________________________________________In this episode, he shares:How as organizations grow, they become increasingly complex over time and how to mitigate this How to identify where to "put in gas" vs. "pump the brakes" to slow down when it comes to new and ongoing initiatives Why running at full speed is not always the answer (and the surprising byproduct of doing so) What makes collaboration between individual team members and make teams as a whole efficient What is changing in the workforce, and what has changed in terms of what makes a good leader in light of that _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:20—Introducing Bob + The topic of today's episode3:50—If you really know me, you know that...5:05—What is your definition of strategy?7:07—Can you talk to us about the premise of your book, The Friction Project, and its background?10:50—Could you talk to us about the moments in which friction can be a good thing, or when to apply "gas vs. brakes16:05—How do you recognize where to apply this idea of velocity vs. slowing down?18:57—How is it that some teams seem to come together and work seamlessly, while others seem to struggle?22:57—What is changing in business in terms of leadership, the way people work, etc.?26:05—Can you talk to us about the importance of reducing frictions, especially in regards to technology?26:50—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Author Website: bobsutton.netEmail: https://www.bobsutton.net/contact/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/Twitter: https://twitter.com/work_matters

Joining us on this episode is Bob Sutton, the New York Times best-selling author of "The Asshole Survival Guide: How to Deal With People Who Treat You Like Dirt". He is also  Professor of Management Science and Engineering and Professor of Organizational Behavior at Stanford University.  His website is https://www.bobsutton.net/