Podcasts about humanocracy

I was given advice from a colleague a few years ago as I left an organization as an employee to venture out on my own - yet again - as a coach, consultant, facilitator. He told me, "Whatever you do, don't talk about culture." I took his advice seriously at the time. But the more I've been back at my own business full time, the more crucial I feel this concept of company culture really is. Culture is the container that holds all of the organization's activities. It's not what you do, it's how you do it that reflects the culture for the people doing the work. Today I mention several books: "The Power of Company Culture" by Chris Dyer, "Holacracy" by Brian Robertson, "Human-Centered Communication" by Ethan Beute and Stephen Pacinelli, and "Humanocracy," by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini.

In this episode, we talk to Mikkel Zanini about humanocracy. Mikkel emphasizes the limitations of traditional bureaucratic organizations and explains the concept of humanocracy, which focuses on maximizing human potential rather than efficiency and control. We explore the principles of ownership, meritocracy, internal markets, experimentation, community, openness and balance that underpin humanocracy. And we discuss examples of successful applications at Haier and Roche that show how these principles can foster innovation, engagement, profitability, and growth.

“How do we get organizations where everyone has the opportunity and the support to contribute to their fullest?” For Michele Zanini, the co-author of “Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them” with Gary Hamel, the answer lies in rethinking the way companies operate.    In this episode, Michele explains how organizations can move beyond rigid bureaucratic systems to create environments that thrive on creativity, resilience, and accountability. He points out the power of a clear, shared purpose to align teams and the importance of nurturing small, autonomous groups that stay agile and entrepreneurial as companies grow. Michele also redefines leadership as a tool to multiply individual potential rather than manage from above, and challenges outdated performance systems by advocating for peer-driven accountability.    Join Alex Raymond and Michele Zanini as they explore how leaders can rethink traditional approaches to organizational design and create workplaces that genuinely empower their people.   Quotes “The idea of humanocracy is really about how to create organizations that are as capable as the people inside them, that are as daring, as courageous as people can be when they're at their best. They're as resilient, they're able to bounce back from a crisis as we often are in our personal lives. As creative as millions of people who are on YouTube, sharing content that sometimes gets millions of people to engage with it. And are as passionate as we can be.” (02:54 | Michele Zanini) “People will still be part of organizations, but what if, instead of organizations viewing people as tools, we saw the organization as the instrument to better our lives and the lives of those we serve? The organization becomes the platform for impact.” (05:37 | Michele Zanini) “The other thing that a mission really does is that it provides a lot of motivation and alignment. So in a way, the mission is your boss. If everybody's united by a particular purpose that is shared, you don't need a lot of supervision.” (15:43 | Michele Zanini) “How do I give everyone in the team or the organization maximum autonomy and maximum accountability? And then how do I enable that? How do I create an organizational environment where that is encouraged and flourishes? You can specify some of that by wiring the organization in a particular way, but there are also things you need to do. For instance, how do you give everyone the competence to make the right decision for the business?” (47:39 | Michele Zanini)   Links Connect with Michele Zanini: Website: https://www.michelezanini.com/ Humanocracy: https://www.humanocracy.com/course/BMI   Connect with Alex Raymond: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afraymond/ Website: https://consciousentrepreneur.us/ HiveCast.fm is a proud sponsor of The Conscious Entrepreneur Podcast. Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

saas.unbound is a podcast for and about founders who are working on scaling inspiring products that people love, brought to you by https://saas.group/, a serial acquirer of B2B SaaS companies. In episode #50, Anna Nadeina talks with Tim Schumacher, serial entrepreneur, environmentalist, and, of course, co-founder of saas.group.Tim - https://www.linkedin.com/in/timschumacher/ saas.group portfolio - https://saas.group/family/ Humanocracy - https://www.humanocracy.com/ Subscribe to our channel to be the first to see the interviews that we publish twice a week - https://www.youtube.com/@saas-group Stay up to date: Twitter: https://twitter.com/SaaS_group LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/14790796

En nuestro episodio 372 conversamos con Pablo Rabelo emprendedor y speaker sobre:+ La operación Condor y el mundo de la CIA+ Una historia de vida familiar colombiana.+ Dejarlo todo por un sueño.+ Estar incomodo es la mejor manera de aprender.+ Conectar con personas por lo que son y no por lo que tienen.+ Escribe sobre ti, sobre el pasado y los futuros capítulos.Acá puedes conocer más sobre Hackers del Talento y Ricardo PinedaSuscríbete a nuestro newsletter Cartas al Talento donde reflexionamos sobre Talento Humano, el futuro del trabajo y la humanización

Our 369th episode features Michele Zanini, co-author of the book Humanocracy. In this conversation, we explore:Growing Up in Venice and Embracing Italian CultureThe Future of Work: What's Next?Haier's Revolutionary Work ModelKey Elements of Humanocracy-Driven CompaniesInnovative Organizational ModelsWhy Aren't Organizations Advancing Faster?The Crucial Role of Middle Managers: Focus or Forget?Acá puedes conocer más sobre Hackers del Talento y Ricardo PinedaSuscríbete a nuestro newsletter Cartas al Talento donde reflexionamos sobre Talento Humano, el futuro del trabajo y la humanización

In a world where company worth is often measured by profits alone, Yancey Strickler sought to create a company where values mattered more than just money. Throughout his career as an author and co-founder of Kickstarter and Metalabel, Yancey continuously advocates for a new view of success, emphasizing the impact companies can make beyond the financial bottom line. Yancey Strickler is the co-founder and former CEO of Kickstarter and the co-founder and director of Metalabel. He is also the author of This Could Be Our Future and the mind behind the philosophy of Bentoism, a framework that considers community, the present self, and the future self in decision-making. In this episode, Dart and Yancey discuss:- Financial maximization culture- Defining a company's value beyond profits- Kickstarter's bylaws- The philosophy behind Bentoism- The impact of financial maximization on company evolution- The Metalabel startup- Heterarchy in organizations- Yancey's biggest lessons learned- And other topics… Yancey Strickler is a writer, entrepreneur, and the co-founder and former CEO of Kickstarter. He is also the co-founder and director of Metalabel, a new space for releasing, selling, and exhibiting creative work. Yancey is the author of This Could Be Our Future and the visionary behind the philosophy of Bentoism, a framework that considers community, the present self, and the future self in decision-making. Earlier in his career, Yancey established the record label eMusic Selects and co-founded The Creative Independent, an online resource center for artists across disciplines. He has also made significant contributions as a music critic, writing for publications such as Pitchfork, Spin, and The Village Voice. Resources mentioned:This Could Be Our Future, by Yancey Strickler: https://www.amazon.com/This-Could-Our-Future-Manifesto/dp/052556084X Our Band Could Be Your Life, by Michael Azerrad:  https://www.amazon.com/Our-Band-Could-Your-Life/dp/0316787531  “The Dark Forest Theory of the Internet,” by Yancey Strickler: https://ystrickler.com/2019/05/26/2019-the-dark-forest-theory-of-the-internet-1/Humanocracy, by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/1633696022 Connect with Yancey:www.ystrickler.com www.metalabel.com 

Over the course of his multi-decade career, legendary author and speaker Gary Hamel wrote the book on many aspects of modern management. So when he explains that bureaucracy is stifling all kinds of human potential in the workplace, organizations and leaders should take note. Hamel joined Alan Todd to unpack the history of bureaucracy and some of the ideas behind his book Humanocracy. Plus, he makes the case for hacking your own bureaucracy to create pockets of innovation, no matter where you are on the corporate ladder. Learn more about Udemy Business at https://bit.ly/udemy-podcast.

Mike talks to Gary Hamel about reimagining organizations by unlocking frontline expertise, developing leaders at all levels, overcoming bureaucracy through new models, and harnessing collective insights in strategy and innovation. Fortune magazine describes Gary as “the world's leading expert on business strategy”. He is ranked by The Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker and is a fellow of the World Economic Forum. He is on the faculty of the London Business School and the author of several books including Humanocracy. Leadership and organizational design with Gary Hamel. (0:04) Strategy development and implementation in large organizations. (0:56) Organizational inertia and pioneering new markets. (5:57) Innovation, strategy, and the auto industry. (10:41) Leadership, innovation, and disruption in the business world. (15:26) Leadership development and the need for more opportunities to lead. (19:36) Leadership and organizational culture in the tech industry. (24:34) Unlocking employee potential for business growth. (27:47) Leadership and organizational change. (32:47) Bureaucracy and organizational structure. (37:41) Leadership, innovation, and challenging conventional wisdom. (42:51)

Spooky season is here, so it seems fitting to share a horror story. Because there's a monster draining time and energy from most of our organizations. This sneaky shapeshifter can take any form, show up at any time, and is one of the more destructive, chaotic forces we're forced to deal with at work. We're talking about the monster that is org debt—and HR has been trapped in a maze with it for decades. Worse still, the maze's towering walls and serpentine corridors come from outdated policies and processes HR largely built themselves. And it's historically been impossible for many leaders to find the time to clean up org debt—or even know where to look for it. In this miniseries, Brave New Work's Rodney Evans is joined by friend-of-the-pod and Ready OG Sam Spurlin to dive into how HR can become more resilient, efficient, and equitable. Today on episode 10, they help you learn how to identify org debt, shine a light on its hiding places, measure what it's really costing us, and start eliminating it from your organization for good. Mentioned references: The Ready's video about Org Debt Marie Kondo Murmur Meg's episode about centralization/decentralization: FoHR Miniseries Ep. 3 Zapier "MBT" (Mission-based Team) "MVP" (Minimum Viable Product) Ali Randel, partner at The Ready Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini, authors of Humanocracy, where the org debt annual cost is attributed -------------- Learn more about The Future of HR at our website. Curious where your company sits on our 5-stage maturity model? Take our assessment and find out! Have a burning HR question for Rodney and Sam to answer? Email us at fohr@theready.com. Ready to get started moving your HR department into the future? Email us at fohr@theready.com or hello@theready.com. --------------- 00:00 Intro + Check-In: Do you remember the first CD you ever bought, and if so, what was it? 03:20 Intro to org debt 06:41 Why companies struggle getting rid of it 13:36 Clear examples of org debt in HR 20:10 Why org debt is such an issue now 25:51 Stopping the cycle of org debt and creating capacity 33:05 Nipping new org debt in the bud 35:14 Psychological behaviors behind types of org debt 41:43 Financial costs of org debt 42:45 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share this episode with your HR friends!

Acompáñame a navegar este short para hablar sobre Humanocracy, un libro escrito por Gary Hamel y Michele Zanini publicado en el 2020. Humanocracy plantea un desafío para organizaciones tradicionales que buscan transformarse y propone a través de principios fundamentales que todos los empleados, independientemente de su posición jerárquica, contribuyan plenamente al éxito del negocio.La propuesta de Humanocracy plantea lograr organizaciones planas, ágiles, libres y que no promuevan el miedo y los mecanismos que propone para lograrlo son:1.- Motivación2.- Nueva mentalidad3.- Nuevo Modelo4.- Migración5.- MovilizaciónNavega con nosotros este set de olas cortas y descubre cómo lograr un negocio cool.Suscríbete a nuestro canal en Spotify.Sigue negocioscool en Instagram.Conecta con nosotros a través de LinkedIn.

Over the last century, the world of work has changed extensively. We've experienced growth in the service sector, increased participation of women and minorities, and the rise of automation and technology – yet, oddly enough, many HR practices haven't evolved much or at all. Melissa Swift, the Transformation Leader for North America at the Mercer consulting firm, believes that it's time to update HR to finally meet the demands of today's workplace.Melissa Swift is a recognized authority on humanistic workplace transformation and the author of Work Here Now: Think Like a Human and Build a Powerhouse Workplace. As the Transformation Leader for North America Mercer, she helps C-suite executives and organizations reinvent the employee experience, drive performance, and create a sustainable competitive advantage. In this episode, Dart and Melissa discuss:- Uncovering the dark history and roots of HR practices- The evolution of traditional and agile HR models- Work Here Now, by Melissa Swift- The danger of excessive customer centricity- Mapping customer journeys alongside employee journeys- Research findings on what makes work pleasant or unpleasant - The competing demands and complexities of the CPO role- The impact of unrealistic expectations in the age of technology- Pitfalls of a cost-centered approach to work- And other topics…Melissa Swift is a recognized authority on humanistic workplace transformation and the author of Work Here Now: Think Like a Human and Build a Powerhouse Workplace. She is the Transformation Leader for North America Mercer, an HR and wealth management consultancy that helps C-suite executives and organizations reinvent the employee experience, drive performance, and create a sustainable competitive advantage. Across her diverse career, Melissa has founded a research institute on leadership of the future for Russell Reynolds Associates, launched two ESG practices at Deloitte, and conducted landmark carbon credit trades for Deutsche Bank. Her research has been published in Harvard Business Review and The Wall Street Journal, and her insights have been quoted in Newsweek, The Washington Post, The Economist, and more. She has also been featured as one of Twitter's “20 Digital Transformation Leaders to Follow” and named a “Top Influencer on the Future of Work” by Onalytica.Resources Mentioned:Work Here Now, by Melissa Swift: https://www.amazon.com/Work-Here-Now-Powerhouse-Workplace/dp/B0BVX6J4V1 The No Asshole Rule, by Robert Sutton: https://www.amazon.com/The-No-Asshole-Rule-audiobook/dp/B000NOKBYS Mapping Experiences, by James Kalbach: https://www.amazon.com/Mapping-Experiences-Complete-Alignment-Blueprints/dp/1492076635 The Anatomy of Genres, by John Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227 Humanocracy, by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/B08F2RZ6VH Connect with Melissa:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/swiftmelissa/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/meswift 

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The following is a conversation between Michele Zanini, Co-author of Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, and Denver Frederick, the Host of The Business of Giving. Today, many organizations are feeling stuck and struggling to move away from outdated management practices towards a more human-centered approach. It's no easy feat, but luckily, there's a book that can help. Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them offers powerful strategies for creating organizations that truly value their people and empower them to reach their full potential. And we're delighted to have one of its co-authors with us today, Michele Zanini, who also is a co-founder of MLab. 

Guest Bio: Rita McGrath is a best-selling author,  sought-after advisor and speaker, and  longtime professor at Columbia Business School. Rita is one of the world's top experts on strategy and innovation and is consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50.  McGrath's recent book on strategic inflection points is Seeing Around Corners: How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2019). Rita is the author of four other books, including the best-selling The End of Competitive Advantage (Harvard Business Review Press, 2013). Since the onset of the pandemic, Rita has created workshops, strategy sessions and keynotes, applying her tools and frameworks to strategy under high levels of uncertainty to specific issues organizations are facing.  As Rui Barbas, the Chief Strategy Officer for Nestle USA said, “You were incredibly insightful and, despite the virtual setting, there was lots of engagement and comments from leaders sharing eye-opening observations and building on your examples throughout. You delivered the inspiration and illustration desired and it was exactly the right focus and challenge for this team. Appreciate your time throughout the process to align on content and delivery. The future-focus theme was the perfect close to our leadership summit.” Rita's work is focused on creating unique insights.  She has also founded Valize a companion company, dedicated to turning those insights into actionable capability.  You can find out more about Valize at www.valize.com. McGrath received her Ph.D. from the Wharton School (University of Pennsylvania) and has degrees with honors from Barnard College and the Columbia School of International and Public Affairs. She is active on all the main social media platforms, such as Twitter @rgmcgrath.  For more information, visit RitaMcGrath.com.   Social Media/ Websites: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ Twitter: @rgmcgrath Instagram: @ritamcgrathofficial Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/rgmcgrath Websites: https://ritamcgrath.com and valize.com Rita's Newsletter/ Articles Substack: https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ Medium: https://rgmcgrath.medium.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/thought-sparks-6787762418471755776/ Books Seeing Around Corners by Rita McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seeing-Around-Corners-Inflection-Business/dp/0358022339 The Entrepreneurial Mindset by Rita Gunther McGrath and Ian MacMillian https://www.amazon.co.uk/Entrepreneurial-Mindset-Continuously-Opportunity-Uncertainty/dp/0875848346 The End of Competitive Advantage by Rita Gunther McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Competitive-Advantage-Strategy-Business/dp/1422172813 Disrupt Yourself by Whitney Johnson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disrupt-Yourself-New-Introduction-Relentless/dp/1633698785 Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/1633696022 Reimagining Capitalism by Rebecca Henderson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reimagining-Capitalism-Business-Save-World/dp/0241379660 When More is Not Better by Roger L. Martin https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-More-Not-Better-Overcoming/dp/1647820065/ Being An Adult by Lucy Tobin https://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Adult-ultimate-getting-together-ebook/dp/B07GQ1KRTC/ Only The Paranoid Survive by Andy Grove https://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/dp/1861975139  Ula Ojiaku: My guest today is Dr. Rita McGrath. She's a best-selling author, a sought-after speaker and advisor and consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50. In this episode, Rita talked about the concept of inflection points from her book ‘Seeing Around Corners' and how as leaders, we can train ourselves to spot these inflection points and act on the information we receive. She also talked about making complex things simple for the people we work with. I learnt a lot speaking with Rita and I'm sure you will find this conversation insightful as well. Thank you again for watching! It's an honor to have you on the show, Rita McGrath. Many, many thanks for joining us. Rita McGrath: Well, thank you Ula. It's a pleasure to be here. Ula Ojiaku: Great. Now, can you tell us about yourself? How did the Rita, Dr. Rita McGrath we know today evolve? Rita McGrath:  Well, it would have to start with my parents, of course. I mean, all great stories start with your parents. And so, my parents were both scientists. My mother was a Microbiologist, and my father was an Organic Chemist. And so, I grew up in a house where, you know, (if) a question couldn't be answered, you went and got the reference book and figured it out. And both, (had) incredible respect for science and for diligence. And, you know, the house was always full of books and lots of emphasis on learning. I wouldn't say we were, financially all that well-off – we weren't poor by any means. But it was, you know, there wasn't like a lot of money to spare, but there was always money for books, and there was always money for, you know, educational experiences and that kind of thing. So, that's the household I grew up in. So, my parents, when I was born, were both on the staff at the Yale Medical School. So, they were both researchers there. And then my dad in the late 60s, got an offer to go join this upstart, fledgling company that was at the cutting edge of all kinds of things in his field and that was Xerox Corporation. And he was very conflicted about leaving academia, but went off eventually to Xerox. So, we moved the family to Rochester, New York. So that's where I did most of my growing up. And my mother at that time, decided to stay home, more or less. And then she started a scientific translation business. So, she moved into an entrepreneurial career more than her scientific career. And then when it came time to go to college, I went to Barnard College in the City of New York. I'd always thought New York was an amazing place and was accepted there. So, went off to New York, did my Bachelor's and my Master's in Political Science and Public Policy. I was very interested in public policy and matters of social contract and those kinds of things. And then my first job was actually with the City of New York, I ran purchasing systems for government agencies. It doesn't sound very glamorous. But today, we would call it digital transformation. It was the very first wave of companies taking their operations in a digital form. And it was very exciting and I learned a lot. Then I got to the end of… the thing about public service is when you start, there's (this) unlimited sort of growth that can happen for a few years, and then it really just levels off. And you're never going to go beyond that. So, I kind of reached that headroom and decided to do something different. Ula Ojiaku:  Was it at that point that you decided to go for your PhD? Rita McGrath:  And that was one of the options I was considering. And my husband basically said, ‘look, if you get into a top five school, it's worth doing and if you don't, it's probably not.' But you have to think in that time, MBA programs were just exploding, and there'd been a lot of pressure on the administrators of MBA programs, to put PhD accredited faculty in front of their students. The big knock against the MBA at the time was, oh, they're just trade schools. You know, we've got some guy who ran an entire company comes in and talks and that's not really academically suitable. And so, there was a huge pressure for schools to find PhD accredited people-  that still exists (but) the market pressures has changed a lot. But when I was doing my PhD, it was pretty sure I would get a job if I managed to complete the degree. So that that gave me that extra input to do that. Ula Ojiaku:  Did you already have like children when you started the PhD? Rita McGrath: Yes Ula Ojiaku:  And how did you cope? Rita McGrath:  Our son was, how old was he? He would have been nine months old when I started my PhD program. Yeah. Ula Ojiaku: Wow, 9 months old. Rita McGrath: Oh, yeah, it was a real challenge. And I guess everybody manages those kinds of challenges in their own way. But yeah, it was a struggle because, you know, typical day would be you know, get up, get the baby to daycare or wherever and then do school or whatever I had to do that day. And then it was sort of pick them up. By the time I had a second child it was pick them up, get them dinner, get them bedtime, get them story, and then I'll be back at my desk at nine o'clock at night, trying to do what I needed to do. So, it was a new turn. It was tough. It was difficult years. I mean, joyful years though but it was just hard to fit everything in. Ula Ojiaku:  I can imagine. I mean, although I'm thinking of starting my PhD (studies), my children aren't that small but I do remember the time (they were), you know, I was still working full time. So, the challenge is you'd go to work and then come back to work. I mean, to another type of work. And then when they go to bed, the work continues. Yeah, it's interesting. Rita McGrath: Quite exhausting. Ula Ojiaku: You can say that. I'm so glad they're not in diapers anymore. So, it's baby steps, we are getting there. So, can we go on to your book, “Seeing Around Corners, How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen”. I'd like to start from an unusual place in the book. I started from the dedication page, and you know, reading everything, and I noticed that, you referred to a conversation, one of the last conversations you had with your mother. Could you tell us about that? Rita McGrath:  Oh sure. She was well, at the time, she was quite ill, she had sarcoma in her lung, and she was quite ill. It's a horrible disease, and we haven't got any real treatments for it. So, the recommendation is you do chemo and that really knocks you out. So, she was quite ill and sort of migrating between the chair and the couch and the chair and the couch. And in one of those conversations, she just said ‘I want you to know I'm proud of you. And I've had a good life and I'm prepared for whatever comes next.' And I thought that was lovely of her to say and I thought in that moment to pass it on to all these other women. And you know you bring up motherhood and being a working woman and all those complicated emotions that come with that because there seems to be guilt around every corner you know, if you're not at home full time, oh you're a terrible mom. And if you're not at work full time, you're a terrible worker. I just I think so many of those things are just designed to twist us up into little balls. And when I look at my own mother's experience - she was a working woman… I grew up but I think I'm third or fourth generation working woman so it never even occurred to me that wouldn't be possible. But I think what often is missing is this validation, you know that for women who are trying to you know make their way professionally and be great, responsible parents and do all these other things that often there's a sense of a lack of self-worth you know, ‘oh, I'm not doing enough.' The more I hear that… Ula Ojiaku:  I feel like that some… most days I feel like that… Rita McGrath: Believe me, you are doing enough Ula Ojiaku:  Sometimes I ask my children, am I a good mom? Rita McGrath:  I think part of it too is we, and when I say we, I mean baby boomer mothers and maybe a little younger. We got ourselves all tangled up in this if it's not like organic, hand-processed  lima beans with you know, organic succotash, mixed in you know, it's not good baby food. Honestly, Gerber's exists to provide perfectly nutritious food for really young babies and they've been doing it for decades and you can trust that and if it makes your life easier, go with it. Ula Ojiaku:  Thank you! Rita McGrath: You know, I think we I think we get ourselves all tossed up in like, what does good mean? I mean, honestly, the kids don't mind you know? I mean, they'd celebrate if it was chicken finger night. Ula Ojiaku:  Let's go to the book. You know, because in your book you said you it's about how to spot inflections before they happen in business. Can you give us examples of, you know, businesses that had these inflection points occur, and they failed to recognize it and what was the impact? Rita McGrath:  Sure, let's take one that is quite sad to me, which is Intel. And Intel built its, well, Intel went through a major inflection point, in fact, the originator of the concept was Andy Grove, who was their former CEO. And he talked about his inflection points in his book, Only the Paranoid Survive, which is really a brilliant, brilliant book. And one of the reasons I wrote my book was that very little had been done since his book on that topic. And Grove built this incredible company, Intel. And they were making microprocessor chips. And they were very, very powerful, very fast chips. And so, the assumptions inside Intel's business model was, what customers were going to pay for was faster, faster, faster, more computation power, more and more powerful. But what they didn't really think about was energy consumption. And as the world went more mobile… so the Intel product is the PC, and the PC, the desktop PC remains firmly plugged into the wall. And then later, we make PC chips that maybe have slightly lower power consumption to power PCs, but it's still that notion of power, you know, and I think the inflection point that caught Intel by surprise, to some extent was, this movement towards mobile, where the vast majority of chips being made were these completely different architecture chips by  companies like ARM and you know, and companies like that, which, from their inception, recognized that low power was the way to go. Then they weren't very powerful in the sense of speed, which is what Intel was driving its business towards. But they were powerful in the sense of ubiquitous low power, long battery life, that kind of thing. And I think that's an example of the kind of assumption that can cause a company to get into trouble, when the underlying shift in the business environment says, ‘wait a minute, this thing you've been building all this time may not be what is needed by the marketplace.' Ula Ojiaku:  That's interesting. So, it brings me to the point of, the points you made about, you know, the indicators, the early warnings, and you mentioned the concept of you know lagging, current and leading indicators. And there was an emphasis in your book on, you know, leading indicators. Could you tell us a bit about that? Rita McGrath:  Sure. Well, so leading indicators are today's information about tomorrow's possibilities. And what we unfortunately rely on a lot in business is lagging indicators - so profits, performance, you know, ROI, all those things are lagging some kind of decision that you made a long time ago. So, the concept of leading indicators is to try to get business leaders to think about what would have to be true, you know, before I was able to make a certain decision, what are the leading indicators? So, an example would be back in the 90s, computer scientists all over the world realized that come the year 2000, from the turn of the millennium, that the way computer programs had been programmed, was only two digits for the year. And so, when the year went to zero-zero, computers, were going to think it was 1900 and this was going to be terrible. Because they all get out of sync, you know, and planes would drop out of the sky. You're gonna become unstable, and you'll all need to move to Montana and stuff … I don't know if you can remember this. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah, the Y2K bug… Rita McGrath: Oh my goodness…! Ula Ojiaku: It was a big sensation. Yeah… Rita McGrath: Apocalyptic – remember?! And yet, when the big moment came the year 2000. What happened? Well, nothing happened. Why did nothing happen? We looked at that early warning, and we said, whoa, if that happens, it's bad. And then so companies, prodded by their accounting firms, prodded by other security considerations invested billions in correcting that flaw. And so, that's an example of an early warning. And there are a couple of things to understand about early warning. So, the first important thing is, the measure of a good early warning is not, did it predict what happened. The measure of a good leading indicator is, did it help you prepare for what might happen? And so, I think that's a really important distinction, because we oftentimes, oh, you that didn't predict this or that. But that's not the point. The point is, did it help you think more broadly about what might happen so that you could be prepared? So, I think that's the first thing. The second thing to remember about leading indicators is they're often not quantitative in the way that we like to think about quantitative things. They're often qualitative. They often take the form of stories. And they often come from what are called unrepresentative parts of your mental ecosystem. So, you know, it's that person on the loading dock (saying to themselves), ‘this is, well, that's weird, a customer never asked for that before', or the person answering the phone, you know, in headquarters going, ‘Well, I don't understand why they need that information…' You know, it's those little anomalies or things that depart from business as usual, that are often the weak signals that you need to be paying attention to. Ula Ojiaku:  So, can you give us an example where you mean, I mean, of how we can go about choosing good leading indicators? Rita McGrath:  Well, in the book, I describe a technique that I use, which is you take a couple of uncertainties and juxtapose them on each other. And that gives you four or more you can do this for as many as you like, stories from the future, possibly a future that we could live in. And then depending on which one you want to think about, you say, ‘okay, I'm gonna write a headline as if it came from a newspaper story about that scenario. And I'm gonna work backwards and say, what has to be true for that headline to emerge.' So, take an example that's playing out right now, chronic and accelerating decline in birth rates in the United States. People are just deciding not to enlarge their families or not to start their families at all. And for very good reasons, you know, the level of social support for families is very low. Mostly women are bearing the burden. And very often women are the ones that make a large part of the decision about whether the family is going to grow or not. And so, we're facing a real baby bust. Well, if that's true, and we follow that along, well, what are some things that would be early warnings or indicators of what that world will be like? Well, you'll see a decline of working people relative to retired people, or people needing assistance, you'll see, you know, fewer kids with more resources to support them. So, the kind of baby Prince phenomena we saw in China. There are lots of things you can kind of work through. But once you say, ‘okay, I see a world with a million fewer children three years from now, than we would have expected well, okay, what now working backward? What does that tell us we need to be paying attention to today? Ula Ojiaku:  Yes, yes. That's a great example. And I wonder, though, so given all, you know, the research that has led to, and your experience as well, consulting with, you know, most of these large organizations, the case studies, you've come to witness and all that, what would you, what would be your advice to leaders of such organizations, you know, in terms of how they can better prepare themselves or equip themselves to recognize these inflection points, and lead effectively? Rita McGrath:  Well, I think the first principle is you have to be discovery driven. In other words, you have to be curious about what's going on. And if you're the kind of leader who (when) someone brings you a piece of information, and instead of treating it like a gift, you're like, oh no, you don't understand that's wrong. That's not the way the world works. If you're dismissive of information people are bringing you that's very dangerous. Because the information you need is not going to come from your lieutenants at headquarters, it's going to come from that guy on the loading dock. So, I think you want to think about establishing some kind of information flows, that go directly from where the phenomena are happening to your desk. So, as an example, a company I really admire is the German metal services company Klockner. And their CEO, Gisbert Ruehl was taking them through a digital transformation. And his big concern was not that they meant it, right? But that his lieutenants, his middle manager, cohort, would be so expert, and so experienced at the way business was, that they would just shut down these digital efforts. And he was very, very concerned about that. He said, well, I need some way of making my message heard directly to the people that are on the frontlines and I also need a way of hearing from them what's going on. So, he implemented Yammer, called non-hierarchical communication. And the deal was anybody in the company that had something he needed to know should feel comfortable sending him a note. And I'm told, I don't know this for a fact that I'm told that at headquarters, he had his instance of Yammer set up so that the lower the hierarchical level of the person, the higher it came in his newsfeed. Ula Ojiaku: Oh, wow. Rita McGrath: So, you know, I can talk to my lieutenants, anytime. Information I need is in the, you know, 24-year-old person who's just joined us with an engineering degree, who's looking at our manufacturing process for screwdrivers and saying, ‘Why do you do it that way? There must be a better way of doing this…' That's the information I really need and he set up a whole system to try to get that information to him, to himself. Ula Ojiaku:  Would you say there's a typical kind of leader with, you know, some certain characteristics that's best equipped to spot the inflection point, and you know, kind of lead the charge and get the organizations in line? Rita McGrath:  You know, I think it's more of the behavior, it's not the characteristics. So, I've seen charismatic, attractive, you know, movie star type CEOs be good at this. I've seen people you look at and you go ‘Really? He looks kind of like he slept in his clothes all night.' I've seen those people be good at it. So, you know, I think the differentiation is this, this hunger for new information, this curiosity, this relentless… ‘tell me again…' and ‘why was that and why was that?' It is this urgent need to really learn what's going on. And then and then putting yourself in the, in the context. So, one of the people I'm working with right now is a brilliant retail CEO, and everything. And one of the things he would do before hiring anybody into his senior team, is he would spend a day or two walking the stores, you know, and in his explanation to me was, ‘I want to see how they react to the stores. I want to see how they treat the people working in stores. I want to see what they notice, you know, I want to see if they notice that there's a thing out of array and I want to see how they are with me, like if they spend their whole two days in store visits, sucking up to me - that's not somebody I need, you know. And so, I think the best leaders along those lines are people who are relentlessly curious, bring people around them who are diverse, you know, you don't just want echo chambers of themselves. Ula Ojiaku:  True, true. You don't want ‘yes' men if you really want to make an impact really. Yeah, and how can I, as a person, train myself to also recognize these inflection points. Rita McGrath:  Well, it depends what the inflection point is. So, if it's a question of, you've been making nice steady progress in your career, and now you've hit some kind of ceiling and you just feel you're not growing or developing any more, then that choice is really okay, I need to… the way Whitney Johnson would put this, she's written a great book on this, “Disrupt Yourself”, right? You go up this S curve, then you need to make the decision if you're going to take on the J curve, right, which is the part below the S curve before you get into the next round of learning. So, that's a personal decision, really only you can make a decision like that. Then there are the cases where inflection points are thrust upon you. So you lose a job, your spouse has some setback, a family member has an urgent need that makes whatever you were doing before impossible. I mean, there's all kinds of outside things that can happen to you. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah… Rita McGrath: And I think the best way to try to look at those is. ‘is this a slingshot to a better future, potentially?' And you know, how many people have you talked to who got fired, and some years later say, ‘that was the best thing that ever happened to me, it shook me out of my complacency. It made me think differently.' And so, I think a lot of times, you know, we, it's very comfortable (staying) stuck in our ruts. And sometimes it takes a bit of a jolt to get us out of that. Ula Ojiaku:  That's a great one. Can I just ask you about so it's not really about your book, Seeing Around Corners, but this one is about the Entrepreneurial Mindset? Just one quick question. Because there's a quote, in your book, that book that says, you know, “the huge part of becoming an entrepreneurial leader is learning to simplify complexity, so that your co-workers can act with self-confidence.” That quote, it made me kind of be more conscious about, am I really making things simpler for my co-workers instead of, you know, rather than to enable us, you know, achieve the best that we could as a group? So why did you, make that quote and associate it with an Entrepreneurial Mindset? Rita McGrath:  Well, because if you make things complicated for people, there's maybe three responses, right? One is they'll start on whatever they start on, which is kind of random. And maybe they finish it, and maybe they don't, but it's really now you're leaving it to chance. Because if you give people more to digest than they can manage, you're going to get back some fraction of it. So that's one thing. Second thing that happens is, if it's too complex, a lot of times people will pick what they want to do, not have anything to do with the agenda that you want to set for the organization. And the third thing is there's just a laziness that comes from having things be complex. I know for myself, when I've had to do strategy statements for myself, or my business, it takes a long, long time to get it done into a few simple things. And each word has to mean something. So, as an example, some years back, I started a sister company. It's called Valize. And the strategy really is to its mission, its purpose for me, is to help organizations create innovation and transformation capability as the basis for shared prosperity. And that sounds really simple. That sounds really kind of ‘duh, that's not so grand, but I mean, the hours it took to get to that simplicity of statement. And then once you've got something like that, you can go back and you could say, okay, well, here's the thing that I'm being asked to do or think I'm thinking of, does it build capability? Yes. No. Does it build shared prosperity? Yes, no. Does it help organizations to help themselves? Yes, no. And it sorts out a lot of stuff means a lot of stuff we could do. But there are only a few things that really fit into that sweet spot of shared capability. So, having that simplification allows you to clear out a lot of the …, there are always wonderful options that you got to do things, right? And it's a question of abundance, you've usually got more great options than you could possibly exercise. So, picking the best ones is the challenge. Ula Ojiaku:  Wow, wow. I'm going to listen to this part again. You've mentioned some books already, like Andy Grove's, Only the Paranoid, I mean, Only the Paranoid survive. And you've mentioned the book, Disrupt Yourself… In addition to these books, and your wonderful suite of books, what other books would you recommend to the audience that you believe have influenced you that you'd recommend to the listeners that would help them you know, learn more about this topic? Rita McGrath: Oh, that's hard, because there's so many. Well, I love Safi Bahcall's Loonshots. I think that's a brilliant, brilliant book. And it really gets to the heart of how innovation actually happens rather than how we think it happens. I rather like Gary Hamel's and Michele Zanini's book, Humanocracy which has the basic question, you know, if you look at Instagram, or Twitter or any of these social platforms, you see these people who are just brilliant. I mean, they're creating incredibly creative stuff. And then we put them inside companies. And we insist that they do things by the rule, and we block all the creativity out of them. So, why do we do that? You know, I think that's a really great one. I'm very taken with Rebecca Henderson's, Re-imagining Capitalism in a World on Fire. Very, very brilliant. Roger Martin, When More is not Better. Just recently had a Julie Lythcott-Haims on my fireside chat program, which is and she's got a book called Your Turn, How to be an Adult”, which is, on a personal level, absolutely fascinating - really good book. I like Peter Sim's, Little Bets. You know, they're just so many I mean, I wouldn't even know where to where to start. Those are the ones that are sort of top of mind at the moment. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. scribbling away as you're talking, and yeah, these all these would be in the show notes with the links to them. So that's great. Now, how can the audience reach you? If they want to, you know follow your work. Rita McGrath: The best place to start is my website, which is really ritamcgrath.com, that's easy. I have columns that I write for. They're currently going up on substack and medium. If you just search my name and or medium, you'll find me there. I do weekly, LinkedIn post, which goes to subscribers on LinkedIn. Also, that's all sort of good places to start. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. Are you on social media? Rita McGrath:  Oh, yes. So yes. I'm on Twitter @RGMcGrath. And I'm on LinkedIn. Okay. I'm not on Facebook so much. But I have put things I post there, but I'm not really on it very much. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. All right. That's, I mean, thanks for those. Now, let's wrap up any ask of the audience first? Rita McGrath:  I think we're in a remarkable moment, right now, you know, we've had so many of our previous habits and assumptions disrupted, that I think it would be a shame to lose, to lose all that and just go back to the way things were. So, I think it's an opportunity to reflect and to really think about, what kind of future do we want to build now that so many of our assumptions and institutions have been challenged, and we learned whole new tricks, we learned whole new ways to do things. Let's not just snap back to the way it was, let's think about inventing better. Rita McGrath:  Really, I think there's going to be great opportunity coming out of this current crisis and those who are thinking ahead will benefit from it. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay, great. Well, Rita, thank you so much for your time, and it's been a pleasure again, having you on the show. Rita McGrath: Thank you very much.  

Bureaucracy used to make sense. A lot of sense. Information was recorded on paper, it was difficult and expensive to move, and the best way for an organization to make decisions was for managers to consolidate information and send it up a chain of command.Times have changed, but for the most part, organizations haven't. The average Fortune 500 company still has eight layers of management passing information from the workforce to the C-Suite.And it's absolutely killing our organizations…Gary Hamel has been described as “the world's leading expert on business strategy” by Fortune Magazine and is the Harvard Business Review's most reprinted author of all time.He believes that nearly every organization is suffering from systemic disabilities stemming from bureaucratic management styles. According to Gary, the solution is nothing short of a revolution in business management principles.In this episode, Dart and Gary discuss revolutionary management frameworks that business leaders can use to escape the tyranny of bureaucracy and create a thriving workforce.They discuss why Gary believes that revolutionary management principles will undoubtedly determine the industry leaders of the future, how companies can evolve their management styles in a way that dramatically expands the capabilities of employees, the future of work for employees and employers, and much more.Topics Include:- The history of bureaucracy as a management model- The shocking statistics of disengaged employees- Top-down versus bottom-up management styles- Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them- Innovations in leadership and management strategies- Roles and responsibilities of future managers- New management principles for the 21st century- How to empower employees- Strategies for reducing risk while pushing innovation- And other topics…Gary Hamel has been described by Fortune Magazine as “the world's leading expert on business strategy,” and the Financial Times calls him a “management innovator without peer.” Hamel has been ranked by The Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker and is a fellow of the Strategic Management Society and of the World Economic Forum.Gary Hamel has been on the faculty of the London Business School for more than 30 years and is the director of the Management Lab. Hamel has written 20 articles for the Harvard Business Review and is the most reprinted author in the Review's history. His most recent bestsellers are Humanocracy and The Future of Management.Resources Mentioned:- Gallup Employee Engagement Trends (2022): https://www.gallup.com/workplace/391922/employee-engagement-slump-continues.aspx- Humanocracy by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People-ebook/dp/B07B9HFSHX/- The Future of Management by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1422102505/garyhamel-20- Domination and the Arts of Resistance: Hidden Transcripts by James C. Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Domination-Arts-Resistance-Hidden-Transcripts/dp/0300056699

Bio Bjarte Bogsnes has a long international career, both in Finance and HR. He is a pioneer in the Beyond Budgeting movement and has been heading up the implementation of Beyond Budgeting at Equinor (formerly Statoil), Scandinavia's largest company. He led a similar initiative in Borealis in the mid-nineties, one of the companies that inspired the Beyond Budgeting model. He has helped numerous other companies globally getting started on a Beyond Budgeting journey.  Bjarte is Chairman of Beyond Budgeting Roundtable (BBRT).  He is a popular international business speaker and Beyond Budgeting coach, and a winner of a Harvard Business Review/McKinsey Management Innovation award. Bjarte is the author of "Implementing Beyond Budgeting - Unlocking the Performance Potential", where he writes about his almost thirty years long Beyond Budgeting journey.  His new book “This is Beyond Budgeting – A Guide to more Adaptive and Human Organizations” with a foreword by Gary Hamel is just out. Bjarte is available for speaking engagements and select consulting work through Bogsnes Advisory.  Episode Highlights  04:33 New book ‘This is Beyond Budgeting' 07:40 Beyond Budgeting 16:25The issue with the current performance appraisal process 19:45 The case for change 31:00 Becoming braver 33:50 ‘Losing' control 49:10 Reflect on the risk picture  Books ·         This is Beyond Budgeting: A Guide to More Adaptive and Human Organizations by Bjarte Bogsnes This Is Beyond Budgeting: A Guide to More Adaptive and Human Organizations: Amazon.co.uk: Bogsnes, Bjarte: 9781394171248: Books ·         Implementing Beyond Budgeting: Unlocking the Performance Potential by Bjarte Bogsnes Implementing Beyond Budgeting: Unlocking the Performance Potential: Amazon.co.uk: Bogsnes, Bjarte: 9781119152477: Books ·         Maverick by Ricardo Semler https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maverick-Success-Behind-Unusual-Workplace/dp/0712678867 ·         Humanocracy by Gary Hamel et al https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/B08F2TCKWN ·         The Future of Management by Gary Hamel and Bill Breen https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Management-Gary-Hamel/dp/1422102505  Websites ·         Beyond Budgeting Institute https://bbrt.org ·         Bogsnes Advisory (Bjarte's consulting firm) https://bogsnesadvisory.com  Social media ·         LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjarte-bogsnes-41557910/ ·         Twitter:  @bbogsnes  Guest Intro (Ula Ojiaku) Hello and welcome to the Agile Innovation Leaders podcast. I'm Ula Ojiaku. On this podcast I speak with world-class leaders and doers about themselves and a variety of topics spanning Agile, Lean Innovation, Business, Leadership and much more – with actionable takeaways for you the listener. Ula Ojiaku Hello, Bjarte. Thank you for being my guest on the Agile Innovation Leaders Podcast, it's a great honour. I remember meeting you for the first time last year in Copenhagen at the Beyond Budgeting Roundtable, and you kindly accepted. So thank you for being here today. Bjarte Bogsnes Thank you for the invitation. Ula Ojiaku Great. So could you tell us any experience that you might have had growing up, that would have led to where you are today? Bjarte Bogsnes Well, the author Douglas Adams, he once wrote that: “I might not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I ended up where I needed to be”, and that's basically the story of my life because it was in no way given that we should sit here today and talk about Beyond Budgeting, because my career started in a very different place. I'm a finance guy by education and after I finished my business studies, I joined a company called Statoil, it's today called Equinor, it's Scandinavia's largest company, it's an energy company, and my first management job in this company, the year after I joined, was actually Head of the Corporate Budget Department. So I have been heading up more budget processes in my career than I want to be reminded about in that job and in many other Finance Manager jobs in different, you know, jobs. I've been working abroad quite a lot for the same company. So I used to be a big fan of this way of managing, there is actually an interview with me from the company magazine at the time where I'm praising the brilliance of budgeting, and I hope that there are no more copies around. And another reason I like that quote from Adams is that I come from a teacher family. My parents were teachers, my sister was a teacher, so I was in the way, the black sheep in the family because I went for Business Studies. But these days I really feel that I'm back in the fold, because I feel that that is what I'm doing now, teaching, and trying to make a positive difference, just like my parents and my sister did. Ula Ojiaku So teaching, it seems like it's a full circle, but you wouldn't have gotten here without, you know, still going through that process of working in business. Bjarte Bogsnes No, I think I'm very glad I have that background because it means that I know what I'm talking about. I know most of the fix in the budget book and some of them are quite nasty, and so when I would discuss with managers, finance people and others then, I mean, I know the arguments, and I know how to respond. Another important part of this journey was that I am one of the few finance persons, I believe, who has also worked in Human Resources. I was heading up the HR function in a large European company for some years, and that experience was also a big eyeopener for me when it comes to the leadership, the people side of Beyond Budgeting, which is just as big as the kind of finance process side. Ula Ojiaku Nice. Now, I mean, we will be getting to talk about your book, which is This Is Beyond Budgeting, that was released this February, 2023. Congratulations! Bjarte Bogsnes Thank you. Ula Ojiaku What I noticed was that the difference between This is Budgeting, I mean your, your second book and, Implementing Beyond Budgeting, which preceded this, this is actually a quicker read, you know, smaller, it seems like it was condensed and it was done on purpose. Could you tell us about this book, the main message? Bjarte Bogsnes Yes. Now, first of all, I mean, that is a correct observation. This is a shorter book, on purpose, and the simple reason is that we need to reach people, busy people, with limited time to read, and they don't have time to read bricks. So, yes, it is a shorter book, it is recapping some key messages from my earlier books, but there's also a lot of new stuff in it. I have learned a lot since the other book you've shown was published back in 2016. I've written a lot, I've worked with a lot of great organisations. So, again, a lot of new learning also. And I really do hope to reach, I did reach a number of executives, managers with my previous book, and I know, because of nice feedback from many of them. But there are so many more of them that still needs to hear this message. So that is why it's the shorter one. And I'm also very grateful and happy that Gary Hamel agreed to write the foreword. I mean, he is such an inspiration when it comes to management innovation and has been for such a long time. I mean, hearing Gary speak is simply mind-blowing. I mean, he is dynamite as a speaker and I think he's written a great foreword, and there are also some, quite some nice endorsements from important people in the agile community and kind of borderline agile community, Rita McGrath, Dave Snowden and Julian Birkinshaw, Jos de Blok, the founder of Buurtzorg. So I'm also very happy that these people took the time to read it and write these nice endorsements. Ula Ojiaku Indeed, we will go into some key points in the book for the listeners or viewers, they would have to buy it to go through it, to know what it's all about. But can you tell us, because there might be some people listening to this that don't know, what Beyond Budgeting is all about. Bjarte Bogsnes No, that's obviously an important question and let me start with saying that Beyond Budgeting is a somewhat misleading name, we know. It was, Beyond Budgeting was invented, developed 25 years ago, and back then there was nothing called agility, agile, or business agility, so if that label had been around at the same time, maybe that would've been the name of this. But it is basically about business agility. And, as the subtitle in my book states, it's about creating organisations that are more adaptive and more human, and Beyond Budgeting is very much about changing traditional management. But at the core of traditional management, you find not just the budgeting process, but also the budgeting mindset, built on the assumptions that the world is predictable and plannable and that you can't trust people. These are assumptions that we really challenge in Beyond Budgeting, because it isn't true. So if you want to change traditional management, you need to do something with the elephant in the room, the budgeting process. And that is something that, if you look at Agile, I think Agile has kind of avoided that elephant throughout all these years. It's been regarded as something unavoidable, a lower business, which isn't true, because more and more companies are skipping this way, or managing. And talking about Agile, I'm a big fan of Agile, but what I'm going to say now is not criticising Agile, but I think it would also help to explain what Beyond Budgeting is. I think part of the success of what I call early Agile has to do with its birthplace in software development, and how teams are working. And I think in those early years, I think what executives in big companies, what they observed and heard about Agile was better projects, faster projects, more value, more engaged people, and who can be against that, wonderful, I love it, come on guys, Agile is great. Then for obvious reasons, companies started to scale Agile, right? And at one level it kind of reaches the executives and has consequences, implications for these guys' beliefs and behaviours. And then it isn't that it wasn't that fun anymore. I think that's one reason why scaling Agile has been difficult. Another reason is that you can't scale Agile using the same language and tools and frameworks that did wonders back in those days. I mean, for executives who don't play rugby and don't know Agile, they might think that Scrum is some kind of skin disease, or Slack is about laziness or that Sprint is about running faster, or continuous delivery is about 24/7. Right? So, I mean we need a language here that these guys can understand and relate to, and Beyond Budgeting is providing that language. They might still disagree, but they understand what we are talking about. And the last issue here is that, again, Agile was not designed as a way to run an enterprise. So when you try to scale it, these holes in Agile become visible, like how do you manage resources?  How do you do forecasting? How do you evaluate performance? How do you reward? Right? And these are the holes that Beyond Budgeting is filling, because, again, Beyond Budgeting was designed from day one as an Agile way of running an organisation. And that is why we never talk about scaling agile, because it comes scaled, it is scaled, right? But this is also why Beyond Budgeting in Agile is such a beautiful fit, and why so many companies on Agile transformation journeys are reaching out to us because they reach these insights and learnings and understand that there can be no true agile transformation without Beyond Budgeting. Ula Ojiaku That's an excellent overview of Beyond Budgeting. And I understand, you know, in Beyond Budgeting, there are 10 principles, and there is the leadership principles, if I may say, and then the management processes. Do you want to talk a bit more about this, please? Bjarte Bogsnes Yeah. So there're actually a 12 principles, and you're right, six of them are on leadership and six of them are on management processes, and if you look at what Beyond Budgeting is saying about leadership, it is not necessarily that unique. There are many other great communities and models out there saying similar things about leadership, right? Talking about purpose and autonomy, transparency, values, and so on. But very often these models and communities haven't reflected very much, it seems like, about what kind of management processes are needed to activate these leadership intentions, because what is often the case in organisations is that they might have the best intentions on the leadership side. They say the right things, they write the right things, but that doesn't help if the management processes are expressing the exact opposite use. Classic example, it doesn't help to talk loud and warm about how fantastic employees we have on board, and we would be nothing without you, and we trust you so much, but not that much. Of course, we need detailed travel budgets, right? This is hypocrisy, and people notice and the words become hollow, because the management processes has a different message. So that is why there is a strong focus in Beyond Budgeting on coherence between the two, between what is said and what is done, right. So I think that is one and very important aspect with Beyond Budgeting. The other is that, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think any other community out there has cracked the budget problem. The budgeting process is something that everybody complains about. It's maybe the most loathed corporate process out there, followed by performance appraisals, but again, it's kind of been left untouched until Beyond Budgeting came and offered great alternatives to this quite outdated way of managing because, it is fascinating, there are not too many other technologies applied in companies today that are a hundred years old, but that is the age of budgeting invented in 1922 by James O McKinsey, the founder of McKinsey Consulting, right. And I never met Mr. McKinsey, but I don't think he was an evil man. I actually think he had the best of intentions. I mean, he wanted to help organisations perform better. This was management innovation a hundred years ago, and it probably worked a hundred years ago, because the world was completely different, the quality and the capability, competence of people were very different, but today things have changed and that is something that our leadership and management models must reflect. Ula Ojiaku Okay, there's something you said, you know, the two things or two activities, that are probably most loathed in organisations would be the budgeting process and the performance appraisal. And you've talked a bit about the budgeting. So, for the performance appraisal, what exactly about it doesn't sit well with people? Bjarte Bogsnes Oh, that list is long. First of all, I mean, it's just like budgets, as I will come back to, has different purposes, so has the performance appraisal, I mean, one purpose is meant to be learning and development, that's a positive one, but another purpose is to determine rewards, right. So, if you are my manager and I'm coming in to a performance appraisal with you and if my mind is mainly on the reward side, the last thing I want to share with you is where I have learning and development needs, right? I want to brag about all my successes and how great I am and so on, and vice versa. So, kind of combining this in one process, with one outcome is meaningless, and also this focus on rewards and, which very often is about individual bonus, which is one of the problems in traditional management that Beyond Budgeting is strongly against, we believe in common bonus schemes, driven by joint performance instead of individual performance. So it is typically an annual event, right, an annual stunt, it's meaningless to talk about feedback and development once a year, that needs to happen much more continuously, right? So, I think budgeting is a bigger problem, it makes more damage, by all means. But performance appraisals come and the whole low performance management notion, it does almost as much damage. And by the way, that is a label I really dislike, performance management, right? Think about it. What are we really saying? Aren't we saying that if we don't manage your performance, there will be no performance, right? That is not a very positive message, and I also think there's quite a lot of illusion playing out here. I think our ability to manage performance, among knowledge workers in today's people and business realities is actually quite limited compared to what managers and HR people and some finance people often tend to think. So it's an awful label, and, you know, we need to stop thinking about managing people, we need to start thinking about how we can create conditions for people to perform, how we can enable performance, not managing performance. Ula Ojiaku That's a great point Bjarte. So what's the solution? What is the solution that Beyond Budgeting is going to offer? And the next one following it would be, how do we apply this? Bjarte Bogsnes Oh, most people actually who are blank on Beyond Budgeting, when they hear about this, they like it, they see that this makes sense. It's only common sense in a way, this is about taking reality seriously, and it is addressing so many of the pain points they experience working, especially in big companies. But then of course the next question is, well, how do we get started? And we have two general recommendations here. The first one is about the case for change, which simply means that the whole organisation, or as many as possible, has to understand that all those complaints about traditional management, including budgeting, the time it takes, the gaming, the narrow performance language, the outdated assumptions. I mean, these are more than irritating itches, right? These are symptoms of a big and serious problem, namely that this way of thinking, this way of managing originally meant to help organisations perform better is today doing the opposite. It has become more of a barrier than a support for getting out the best possible performance, and the more there is a common understanding of what kind of problems the organisation is trying to solve, the easier everything afterwards is. Because if you are unclear about that, I mean, how can you make your choices about alternatives, right? But the clearer the case for change, the better the problems are defined, the easier it is when you have a choice of design, should we go this way or this way? Well, which solution would best solve the problems they are trying to solve? So the case for change has to be created, a solid one, then getting started. We know that many, having seen the Beyond Budgeting principles for the first time, might feel this is a bit overwhelming, right? With all these bold ambitions around leadership, these major changes towards the traditional management processes. I mean, it is a mouthful, it is quite a comprehensive leadership and management model. And if some are kind of a bit scared, I can understand that. If that is the case, we have a very simple, tested, practical, logical way of getting started, which is more budget-oriented than Beyond Budgeting itself, but it is a great way to get started, and it is simply about asking a very simple question, namely, why do you budget? Right? What's the purpose of a budget? And most people that I've asked that question, when they have thought a little bit about that question, they actually realise that there are more than one purpose with a budget in a typical, and when I say budget, I mean more than project budgets, more than cost budgets, I'm talking profit loss, cash flow, balance sheet budgets, the whole finance definition. And the purpose of these budgets are the following. First, companies make budgets to set targets. It could be financial targets, sales targets, production targets, right? So that's one purpose. Second, companies and organisations use these budgets to try to understand what next year could look like in terms of profit and loss cashflow. So it is a kind of forecast of what next year could look like. So, that's the second purpose. The third purpose is resource allocation. The budget is used as a mechanism for handing out bags of money to the organisation on operational costs and on invests, and it might seem very efficient, practical to solve all three purposes in one process and one set of numbers. But that is also the problem, because what happens if we move into the budgeting process in a company, and upstairs finance want to understand next year's profit and loss and they start on the revenue side asking responsible people, what's your best number for next year? But everybody knows that what I'm sending upstairs will most likely come back to me as a target for next year and often with a bonus attached to it. And that insight might do something to the level or numbers submitted, and I think you know, which way those numbers will go, namely down. Moving to the cost side, operational cost investments. The same people, other people are asked, what's your best numbers for next year? But everybody knows that this is my only shot at getting access to resources for next year, and some might also remember that 20% cut from last year and that insight and that memory might also do something to the level of numbers submitted. And I can see you're smiling a bit, and a lot of people do. Ula Ojiaku I'm smiling because I'm just kind of thinking of incidents in past, you know, in past organisations that it has happened. You know, you just sandbag it and give a very high number, knowing that there might be a challenge. Bjarte Bogsnes And you're in good company when you're smiling, but at the same time, I mean, this is actually quite a serious problem, not just because it destroys the quality of numbers, but even more because it actually stimulates behaviour, which I would call at least borderline unethical. The road-balling, the gaming, the sandbagging, the resource hoarding, I mean, all the kind of behaviours that we wouldn't like to see between colleagues. At the same time, I'm not blaming anyone for behaving like this, right? Because then people are just responding to the system we have designed for them to operate in. So if we want to change behaviours, it's not about fixing people, it's about fixing systems, which again, will change behaviours. So that's the problem, three different purposes in one process, in one set of numbers. Fortunately, there is a very simple solution. We can still, and in many cases, should still do these three things, but we should do them in three different processes because these are different things. A target, that's an aspiration, it's what we want to happen. While a forecast is an expectation, it's what we think will happen whether we like what we see or not, right? Brutally honest, the expected outcome. And last but not least, resource allocation is about optimisation of what is often scarce resources. When we then have separated, then a target can be more ambitious than a forecast, which it typically should be. But the most important thing is that that separation opens up for big and important improvement discussions. We can now improve each of these in ways impossible when it was all bundled in one process and one set of numbers. So we can have great discussions around targets. How do we set better targets that really inspire and motivate people, without people feeling stretched? How can we set targets that are more robust against the volatility, the uncertainty, the complexity, and the ambiguity out there? Forecasting, how can we get the gaming and the politics out to the forecasting? And we don't need a million details here, we are looking at the future. There's uncertainty, which is a big difference on looking at the past through accounting, where details and decimals make sense and is often required. But looking at the future, there is uncertainty and that must have implications. So this isn't a good example of, in this stuff, we have to leave behind that accounting mindset that is applied for describing the past recounting, right? When we look at the future, then we need to accept the ambiguity, the complexity, and not just accept it, but embrace it. And last but not least, resource allocation. How can we find better and more intelligent, more effective ways of managing cost than what a certain Mr. McKinsey could offer us a hundred years ago, under very different circumstances? And this is the important discussion, that separation of purposes that just enables these improvement discussions. And in these discussions, having these discussions that is a kind of not scary organic backdoor into those 12 principles, especially in your leadership, right? Target setting, what really motivates people? Resource allocation, again, do we need detailed travel budgets, if we say we trust people? So, again, it is pure logic. I have yet to meet a CEO, a CFO, that didn't come up with that list of three purposes, didn't understand, when helped a little bit, that that's problematic, and didn't see that there are much better ways when you can improve each one separately. And last but not least, we can also then do something with the cadence, with the rhythm of each one. So now we can organise each of the three: target setting, forecasting, resource allocation, on a rhythm that not just reflects the kind of business we're in, but also the kind of purpose, right. So you would set targets or chase targets much less, I mean, not that often as you would change your forecast, and resource allocation is something that you would do all the time, right. So, and also another beauty of this approach is that when people tell me it's impossible to operate without the budget, then my response is, having explained this, that here we still do what that budget try to do for us, but because we have separated, we can do each one in so much better ways, right? And when people say, well, the bank want a budget, the reason why banks ask for budgets is that they have never really realised that there was something else to ask for. So if you can tell the bank, I won't give you a budget, but I will give you my targets and my reliable forecasts, the bank will be more than happy. So I'm spending a little bit of time on this because it is the more finance-oriented part of Beyond Budgeting, but it is a great way to get started. And I helped so many companies over the years and with the big majority, this is where we started out and what we observe over and over again, is in having those improvement discussions the first year, people are a little bit cautious about how radical shall we be, but then it turns out that things work. And what was scary today is not scary tomorrow because it did work, which means that the appetite for being braver increases, so we typically see that organisations get braver along the way, and when it comes to targets, some, after some years of setting better targets, actually decide to skip targets, right? They realised that they are absolutely able to create direction, create motivation, evaluate performance without traditional targets, some even skip forecasting. I haven't heard anyone skipping resource allocation yet that you need to have, but my point is that people and companies tend to get braver. And a final important message, very few companies that have embarked on a Beyond Budgeting journey go back, very few. I don't need one hand to count the number, and the few who did go back, the reasons fall in two categories. Either a flawed implementation, typically, an unclear, weak case for change, or starting only with rolling forecasting. The other typical reason has to do with a significant change in top management at the very early part of the journey. That's actually something I've experienced myself. Ula Ojiaku Great explanation, Bjarte. So you mentioned, you know, about separating the budget into three distinct parts, the target, the forecast, the resource allocation. Now at the organisations where you've implemented this, did you get any resistance from, you know, the top level leaders, managers, because you know, traditionally whoever has the budget, who controls the money, tends to wield power in any organisation. Was there any resistance? Bjarte Bogsnes Well, I think there has been maybe more fear and confusion than outright resistance, even if the resistance sometimes is hidden behind those two. And of course, one word that keeps coming up over and over again when I discuss Beyond Budgeting with people is the word control, right? The fear, and the context is of course the fear of losing control, but the interesting thing with that word is that, when I ask people to be a bit more specific to define what they mean with control, after people have said cost control, actually many go quiet. They struggle with defining what they are so afraid of losing, and that is quite interesting. And if you look at Oxford Dictionary's definition of control, it is the power to influence people's behaviour or the course of events which, again, then for an organisation typically means controlling people and controlling the future. And again, those are the two assumptions that we challenge in Beyond Budgeting, because it is about not trusting people and thinking that the future is predictable and untenable and on control, what I often tell these people is that, yes, you will lose control, but the control that you lose are the bad controls. What you will get more of is good controls, and I wouldn't call that losing control. And one example of a good control in Beyond Budgeting is transparency, right? And let me give you one classical example of how it can be applied, ad this is a real example from a Swiss's pharmaceutical company called Roche, quite big, and they are today on a Beyond Budgeting journey, but some years ago they did a very interesting experiment around travel cost. In the pilot, they kicked out the travel budget, and most travel groups and regulations, and replaced it with full transparency. So with a few exceptions, everybody could see everything. If you travelled, to where did you fly, sleep, eat, cheaper, expensive, open for your colleagues to see and vice versa. And guess what happened with travel costs in that pilot? We'll Go Down Costs came down through a very simple self-regulating control mechanism. This was about tearing up pages in that rules book instead of doing the opposite. At the same time, we need to remember that transparency is a very powerful mechanism. It has to be applied with wisdom. So if it becomes naming and shaming, it doesn't work. And that is why I would always recommend companies to position transparency more from a learning perspective than from a control perspective. I mean, how can we learn from each other if everything is secret? And that control, that shock control effect, you would get in any case as a nice side effect. But again, it must be applied with wisdom. It is fascinating that the biggest fear managers have is to lose control, but what they haven't understood is that a lot of these controls are nothing but illusions of control. Ula Ojiaku That's very interesting. And another thing that I know that some, or if not most of the listeners will be wondering is, okay, you've talked about how, and in your… in both your books… actually the Implementing Beyond Budgeting and your latest one, This is Beyond Budgeting, you did mention something about “you can't get rid of Command and Control via Command and Control”. And in that part of the book, you were saying something that in terms of implementing it - it's something that you recommend the organisations do themselves. Can you elaborate on this? Cause someone, you know, might wonder, is it that you are against getting consulting help? Bjarte Bogsnes So, consultants and Beyond Budgeting. I think what you refer to is, I have a chapter about implementation advice, and one of these is that nobody can do this for you. And what I mean with that, and I explained this in the book, is that, I mean, I'm not saying that companies shouldn't ask for external help, and I'm offering external help, but what they typically should ask for is some inspiration, some guidance on implementation, connections to other companies that have implemented this, but it is not something that an organisation can delegate to consultants. This is not something consultants can do for you. You have to be in the driver's seat, and the more transformation- oriented your ambitions are, the more the executives need to take this role themselves. And I'm saying this because implementing Beyond Budgeting can be anything from a more cautious improvement of finance processes to a radical organisational transformation, and anything in between. And the higher your ambition levels, the higher the ownership in the organisation has to be. When it comes to the consultants, and I also write about this in my book, this is something that has happened just over the last few years, that is that the big consulting companies have gotten seriously interested in Beyond Budgeting. That was not the case before. And the reason for it is that their clients are getting interested, asking for it. And so most of these would like to work with us in some form or shape. Ula Ojiaku Sorry to interrupt, Bjarte. So by ‘us', you mean the Beyond Budgeting Institute)? Bjarte Bogsnes Yeah. Yes. They want to work with the Beyond Budgeting advisory, the Beyond Budgeting Institute. And again, we are not naive. I mean, we come from different places, we might have different agendas here, but at the same time, these companies, they have channels and muscles that we don't have to the same extent, at least not yet. So we have actually decided to say yes to work with them, because we would rather help them and their clients succeed than to stand on the outside and watch them fail, right? So, we have been working, are working with a number of big companies, together with some of these big consulting companies. Ula Ojiaku That's great. And if I may just point to, because you spearheaded this in Statoil, now known as Equinor, and actually this was, I read this in your Implementing Beyond Budgeting book that your approach was based on two principles, no fixed implementation schedule, and no consultants. So how did that work, not having an implementation schedule. Bjarte Bogsnes Well, if we take the first implementation in Borealis back in the mid-nineties where we had a chance to do this, before there was anything called Beyond Budgeting, this company that was partly owned by Statoil, then, I mean, this wasn't an issue because there was no consultants. Even if we had wanted consultants, there was no one to reach out to. So then it was quite easy.  In Statoil, later Equinor, it was more about the fact that I had that implementation experience from Borealis, which kind of, I became some kind of an in-house consultant. And again, as I said, I'm not saying that companies shouldn't use consultants, but you have to use the right ones and use them in the right way. Ula Ojiaku Okay. Thanks for clarifying. Okay, it seems like, you know, Beyond Budgeting would be something that we should seriously consider implementing in our organisation. What else should we be aware of?” Bjarte Bogsnes Well, I think it is important for everybody, also executives to understand that Beyond Budgeting changes work and how you work in a positive way, and for executives, I mean, the role becomes more strategic, more longer term. It's more about coaching, it's less about micromanagement, and maybe most important, there's a new credibility between what is said and what is done, right, which the organisation will notice. When it comes to other functions like finance, it also has a very positive effect. The job becomes much more business-oriented, less annual stunts, more forward-looking, less backwards-looking, more cooperation with other functions like for instance, human resources. And I can't think of a single finance person in Equinor that wants to go back to the old days and the time before 2005. And I think that provides an indication as well. And another key message is that what we have been talking about today, it will happen. It will happen. I don't care if it will be called Beyond Budgeting, or business agility or whatever, that is not important. But in 15, 20 years time, maybe earlier, when we look back at what was mainstream management in 2023, I think we will smile, maybe even have a laugh, just like we today smile about the days before the internet or before the smartphone. And how long ago is that? It's not that long ago. So organisations have a choice here, they can choose to be early movers or vanguards, understanding that you can get just as much competitive advantage out of management innovation as you can get from technology innovation. Or they can choose to be laggards, dragged into this as one of the last ones or anything in between. And every year you wait, competitors will be ahead of you. And I don't think that choice should be very difficult, and again, it should b. easier to make today, when so many organisations are embarking on a Beyond Budgeting journey. It was a bit tougher and a bit more scary 25 years ago when, when this started out, right. But again, it will happen. Ula Ojiaku I'm going to ask you a question I ask all my guests. What books have influenced you and would you recommend to the audience? Bjarte Bogsnes Well, many, many years ago, when I was an ardent budget supporter and believer, I read Maverick by Ricardo Semler, the former CEO of Semco, and I was mind-blown, simply mind-blown. It, kind of yeah, it really, really moved me, even if I kind of didn't have the chance to adopt any of that thinking before, many, many years later. Lately, again, I've mentioned Gary Hamel, and his co-author, Michele Zanini, they have written great books. The last book Humanocracy is a great one, and, a previous one by Gary Hamel, The Future of Management is also a book that I really like and I recall giving that book to the CEO of Statoil quite early on the journey, and he liked it so much that he gave it as a Christmas present to the rest of the executive committee. Ula Ojiaku Thank you, and of course I would add to the list This is Beyond Budgeting. If someone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way of getting to you? Bjarte Bogsnes Yeah, then I will think about this as getting in touch with us, and when I say us, I mean that there is a core team of five, six people who are kind of driving this. And we have a website called, bbrt.org. That will give you more information about the Beyond Budgeting Roundtable, which is a global network of companies interested in this and individuals interested in this. And that is where you can sign up as company member, individual member. And I also recommend to subscribe to our newsletter, and if you're curious about this guy and all of this then I made that difficult decision a few years ago to leave Equinor, to start Bogsnes Advisory to be able to work full-time with this. And so I have my own small simple website called bogsnesadvisory.com And on bbrt.org you will also find a list of more books that I can highly recommend on this topic. Ula Ojiaku That's great. Are you on social media, Bjarte? Bjarte Bogsnes I am, I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, and the only thing I write about is this stuff. There are no cats and dogs and grandchildren or anything, so that's why it's highly appreciated if somebody wants to follow me. Ula Ojiaku So any final words for the audience in terms of an ask? Is there something you want them to do? Bjarte Bogsnes Reflect a little bit about the risk picture here, because there is a very compelling risk picture, right? If you are afraid that it won't work in your organisation, well, what's really the downside risk? Because if you're right, if it doesn't, you can go back to the old way tomorrow. Not the single soul in the company would've forgotten how to budget as one example, and compare that minimal downside risk with that huge upside potential performance-wise. And I'm saying when this is working, not if it's working, as we have seen in so many organisations. So a very compelling risk picture. I think that is worth reflecting on as well. Ula Ojiaku Well, it's been great speaking with you, Bjarte. Thank you so much for those wise words and the advice, and I would again say to you, the audience, please go grab your copy of Bjarte's book, This Is Beyond Budgeting, which is now out. And I hope we'll definitely have another opportunity to have a conversation and speak about Beyond Budgeting, since you don't want to talk about any other thing. Anyway, so thank you again, Bjarte. It's a pleasure having you on. Bjarte Bogsnes Thank you, Ula. Thank you very much for the invitation. Ula Ojiaku That's all we have for now. Thanks for listening. If you liked this show, do subscribe at www.agileinnovationleaders.com or your favourite podcast provider. Also share with friends and do leave a review on iTunes. This would help others find this show. I'd also love to hear from you, so please drop me an email at ula@agileinnovationleaders.com Take care and God bless!   

We go back to the Global Drucker Forum in Vienna for this episode where we hear from two gurus: Rita McGrath, bestselling author, distinguished Columbia Business School professor ranked #1 by Thinkers 50 on strategy, and Gary Hamel, one of the biggest names in management consultancy in the world, whose most recent bestselling books are Humanocracy and The Future of Management.

In Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini explore why top-down governance and rule-bound management are liabilities in the modern business world, what organizational changes are needed to equip and enable everyone in organizations to be their best and to do their best, how to manage transitions safely, and what kind of leadership such transformations demand.We discuss how human-centred organizational design can engage employees, reduce attrition, and enable better outcomes more quickly and cheaply.Listen in if you want to transform your organization into a powerhouse of the modern economy where the best people want to work.

We are in a fast-paced and technology-driven society. Yet, many organizations continue to have antiquated management systems that are often bureaucratic and hierarchical. Michele Zanini has made it his life's work to overcome this, moving the conversation from bureaucracy to humanocracy. In this episode, he joins J.R. Lowry to take us deep into his book, Humanocracy, which he co-authored with London Business School professor Gary Hamel. Michele is also the co-founder of Management Lab, or MLab, which works with leading-edge firms and progressive practitioners to help them create tomorrow's new practices today. He shares with us how they stumbled into this alternative way of management that reverses the top-down power structure and puts the people forward. With case studies on companies that made the transition, Michele shows the benefits of humanocracy to the overall organization—from innovation to initiative and more! Check out the full series of "Career Sessions, Career Lessons" podcasts here or visit pathwise.io/podcast/. A full written transcript of this episode is also available at https://pathwise.io/podcasts/from-bureaucracy-to-humanocracy-with-michele-zanini.

Bureaucracy used to make sense. A lot of sense. Information was recorded on paper, it was difficult and expensive to move, and the best way for an organization to make decisions was for managers to consolidate information and send it up a chain of command.Times have changed, but for the most part, organizations haven't. The average Fortune 500 company still has eight layers of management passing information from the workforce to the C-Suite.And it's absolutely killing our organizations…Gary Hamel has been described as “the world's leading expert on business strategy” by Fortune Magazine and is the Harvard Business Review's most reprinted author of all time.He believes that nearly every organization is suffering from systemic disabilities stemming from bureaucratic management styles. According to Gary, the solution is nothing short of a revolution in business management principles.In this episode, Dart and Gary discuss revolutionary management frameworks that business leaders can use to escape the tyranny of bureaucracy and create a thriving workforce.They discuss why Gary believes that revolutionary management principles will undoubtedly determine the industry leaders of the future, how companies can evolve their management styles in a way that dramatically expands the capabilities of employees, the future of work for employees and employers, and much more.Topics Include:- The history of bureaucracy as a management model- The shocking statistics of disengaged employees- Top-down versus bottom-up management styles- Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them- Innovations in leadership and management strategies- Roles and responsibilities of future managers- New management principles for the 21st century- How to empower employees- Strategies for reducing risk while pushing innovation- And other topics…Gary Hamel has been described by Fortune Magazine as “the world's leading expert on business strategy,” and the Financial Times calls him a “management innovator without peer.” Hamel has been ranked by The Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker and is a fellow of the Strategic Management Society and of the World Economic Forum.Gary Hamel has been on the faculty of the London Business School for more than 30 years and is the director of the Management Lab. Hamel has written 20 articles for the Harvard Business Review and is the most reprinted author in the Review's history. His most recent bestsellers are Humanocracy and The Future of Management.Resources Mentioned:- Gallup Employee Engagement Trends (2022): https://www.gallup.com/workplace/391922/employee-engagement-slump-continues.aspx- Humanocracy by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People-ebook/dp/B07B9HFSHX/- The Future of Management by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1422102505/garyhamel-20- Domination and the Arts of Resistance: Hidden Transcripts by James C. Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Domination-Arts-Resistance-Hidden-Transcripts/dp/0300056699

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Sometimes, when we work with a team, we discover that the changes needed to help the team are needed outside the team. In this episode, we talk about such a situation where Erik was asked to explain Agile to a management team. He took the approach that he would use only what was needed or asked for by management. Listen in to learn about this example of how to introduce a complex topic (Agile) to management without overwhelming them.  In this episode we discuss the Ball Point Game, Lean, Kanban, Liberating Structures, the Stacey matrix, and the book Humanocracy.  About Erik de Bos Erik is what you get when you take a trained scientist, who mastered Agile as a programmer and is now a Scrum Master. A pragmatic, analytic, systemic and critical personality who is completely focused on understanding the problem. Because once you understand the problem, the solution is easy. You can link with Erik de Bos on LinkedIn and read Erik de Bos' articles in Medium.

Unfortunately, most organizations, overburdened by bureaucracy, are sluggish and timid. In the age of upheaval, top-down power structures and rule-choked management systems are a liability. They crush creativity and stifle initiative. As leaders, employees, investors, and citizens, we deserve better. We need organizations that are bold, entrepreneurial, and as nimble as change itself. Hence this book. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them. Critical building blocks include: Motivation: Rallying colleagues to the challenge of busting bureaucracy Models: Leveraging the experience of organizations that have profitably challenged the bureaucratic status quo Mindsets: Escaping the industrial age thinking that frustrates progress Mobilization: Activating a pro-change coalition to hack outmoded management systems and processes Migration: Embedding the principles of humanocracy—ownership, markets, meritocracy, community, openness, experimentation, and paradox—in your organization's DNA If you've finally run out of patience with bureaucratic bullshit . . . If you want to build an organization that can outrun change . . . If you're committed to giving every team member the chance to learn, grow, and contribute . . . . . . then this book's for you. Whatever your role or title, Humanocracy will show you how to launch an unstoppable movement to equip and empower everyone in your organization to be their best and to do their best. The ultimate prize: an organization that's fit for the future and fit for human beings.

Dr. Joseph A. Allen has written more about meetings in the academic literature than anyone. He is a Professor of Industrial and Organizational Psychology at the University of Utah. On the show, he shares recent research that shows hybrid meetings are better than either in-person or virtual meetings. Dr. Allen shares his rules for effective meetings, whether in-person, virtual, or hybrid; and how to foster inclusivity and engagement. Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Key Takeaways [2:01] Dr. Allen has written more on meetings in the academic literature than anybody else! [3:11] Having poor meetings is a problem in nearly every organization. [4:33] In the first week of  March 2020, Dr. Allen and his co-author Karin Reed predicted that video meetings and remote work would happen in five to 10 years. Instead, they started two weeks later in the COVID-19 pandemic shutdown! Web video cameras were hard to find by May! [6:13] Dr. Allen collected data in June 2021 for a study showing that face-to-face meetings before the pandemic weren't great, virtual meetings were as good as face-to-face meetings, and hybrid meetings were better than either. If you make sure everyone is seen and heard, hybrid meetings can be the most inclusive type of meeting. If you don't put the effort into it, they are challenging to do well. [8:15] Early adopters were running hybrid meetings that started on time, ended on time, and had an agenda and a purpose. They encouraged participation. They were following the best practices Dr. Allen had been preaching for years. If you do those best practices, you can have a good meeting in any format. [9:41] In virtual or hybrid meetings, there should be one camera for each participant. We can't continue to set up conference rooms with the “bowling lane” approach. We need to work toward finding the best way to use multiple cameras and microphones. [11:18] If you don't know how to facilitate a meeting based on the agenda, you will not hold a good meeting. Dr. Allen talks about the need for procedural communication, to interrupt a monologue and steer the conversation back to the objective. He also notes that most meeting leaders have a blindspot to their faults and think they do a better job of facilitating meetings than they do. [15:30] Dr. Allen says it is paramount to use your camera in a video meeting. If you want your voice to be heard, turning your camera on provides the additional input of facial expressions and gestures. Don't turn off your camera so you can check your email. Be engaged. Leaders, run your meetings so participants need to be engaged, or you are giving them an out not to engage. [17:42] Who needs to be in the meeting? Part of planning for a meeting is selecting who needs to be invited. [18:21] Everybody doesn't need to be invited to every meeting. They need time to do their regular work. With the pandemic and seven-step “commutes,” managers started filling commute time with more meetings. Sometimes sharing the meeting minutes is better than having everyone in the meeting. Or record the meeting and others can play it back at 2X speed. [20:5] Between choosing phone or video, you should hold a video meeting when you're meeting someone that you've not worked with a lot. If you don't see each other, someone might be confused over your meaning. [22:24] The more complex an issue, the more important it is to have a virtual environment that allows sharing charts as well as seeing each other. Phones are good tools for simple issues. [23:09] If you don't know how people are going to react to what you throw out there, use the strongest communication modality you can. In-person or video is better than phone, email, or text to communicate a complex message. [24:13] Joe recommends a virtual commute, which is taking the time to get your brain ready to work, and after work, getting your brain ready to be home. You could listen to a podcast, a book, or the radio. You are giving your brain the natural cues to transition to the next environment with its activities.[26:23] It's psychologically healthy to take breaks, reflect, and focus. Joe has a paper on meeting recovery under review at a journal. This is discussed in his book, Suddenly Hybrid. Humans need moments to be human. Without transition time, we start to burn out. Meeting recovery is a big issue. Make meetings 25 minutes or 50 minutes long so people can take a break before their next meeting! [31:09] The best practices for any meeting, in-person, hybrid, or virtual: Have an agenda, start on time, end on time, have a purpose, and describe the purpose at the beginning of the meeting. [31:40] The best practices unique to hybrid meetings: The leader sets ground rules, like calling people by name and asking them to participate; it's OK if the answer is, I don't have anything to add. That way, everybody gets a chance to be seen and heard on this. Set a ground rule that it's not OK to turn the camera off and disengage. It's up to the participants to help and participate. [32:54] Dr. Allen strongly recommends the leader rotate the location of the hybrid meeting, either office or a remote location. It reminds the leader how hard it is to participate remotely and how important it is to engage the remote participants. The leader should set the rule for the discussion part of the meeting that remotes chime in first before anyone in the room does. [33:57] It's easy for the people in the room to create a tiered communication system, where the people in the room are primary and the people on video or audio are a secondary group. This derails the sense of team effectiveness. Rotate who speaks first among the remote participants; if you know your team, you know who will respond well to being called on first and share their thoughts briefly. [36:57] Gary Hamel, author of Humanocracy, has advocated for years that we stop managing people like Napoleon, command and control. Now managers are insisting we get back to work nine to five. Dan Price, CEO of Gravity Payments recently said, “If you get your work done, that's all that matters.” [37:44] Surveys of workers show that some people want to work from home more and some people want to work from the office more. To retain your top talented folks, establish policies and procedures around hybrid work that allow people to work from home when they need to and work in the office when they need to. Add some required days where people come together and re-energize the team. [39:28] On days when you bring everybody in, have people collaborate. Why commute for an hour to sit in a box? Collaboration is skills-based. Leaders can read about it and implement it. It can be done even by people who are introverts because they know that collaboration on their team is important to their success. On all-hands days, have team meetings and things that cannot easily be done virtually. [41:40] CEOs, are you creating an environment for your leaders to learn how to do this really hard stuff that is leadership today? [43:01] One size does not fit all. Different teams have different requirements. Get to know your people and provide a sense of flexibility that might be a little more uncomfortable than you would like. If you don't accommodate your people, you may lose them, even though they may find out the grass is not always greener over there. [47:20] Dr. Allen issues a challenge to the listeners: 51% of our meetings are rated as poor. The ways to improve meetings are not rocket science. Take stock of your meetings. Think about what would be the ideal situation. See what you may not be doing and try it. Encourage participation. There are ideas out there that will fix problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Quotable Quotes “There isn't actually a course in the management schools across the country that trains people on how to run effective meetings; why would we do effective meetings?” “Everybody had to figure out what was going to work for them in their environment.” “What we learned is that we can do this. We can meet remotely. We can make it work effectively.” “Early adopters are often those people who know how to make the Apple Watch work really well. Or they know how to pull things up on the screen that you don't know how to do. They're the people that take on technology and just embrace it.” “The meeting leader, who comes in with an agenda and a purpose, gets steamrolled by somebody … who just goes off on their favorite topic. … That leader needs to know that they can say, ‘Thank you for that comment. That's meaningful. I'd like to get your thoughts on this.'” “You know that one bad meeting causes three more meetings! That is scientifically shown across a lot of different samples and a lot of data. It's worth the effort to make the meetings better because it means we should have fewer meetings moving forward.” “[A ‘virtual commute' is] that psychological and meaningful human transition from one thing to the next. And we need that transition time. Without it, we start to really burn out.” “It's easy for those folks in the room to create a tiered system of communication, where the people in the room are the primary and the people that are not in the room, whether it be on video or audio, become a secondary group. That ... can derail the sense of ... ‘team.'” “[Collaboration] can be done even by people who are not the most collaborative or wanting to be. … Introverted people … learn how to do it, anyway, because they know that collaboration in their team is really important for the success of their team.” “It's all about: Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? And if you go against what they want, be prepared for the ramifications! Be prepared for the mass exodus that's been happening in some organizations.” “Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.”   Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Dr. Joseph A. Allen Dr. Joseph A. Allen on LinkedIn Karin M. Reed on LinkedIn Apple Watch Suddenly Hybrid: Managing the Modern Meeting, by Karin M. Reed and Joseph A. Allen Suddenly Virtual: Managing Remote Meetings Work, by Karin M. Reed and Joseph A. Allen Gary Hamel The Future of Management, by Gary Hamel with Bill Breen Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanina Dan Price Gravity Payments

È difficile trovare qualcuno che sia disposto a difenderla. Eppure è una delle strutture sociali più diffuse del pianeta. La burocrazia. Nata nel secolo scorso, in e per un mondo che non esiste più, gli è sopravvissuta. E si fa sentire, purtroppo.Come se ne esce? Una possibilità è adottare quella che Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini, nel libro omonimo, chiamano Humanocracy. Le aziende "umanocratiche" esistono e sono già tra noi. Ne parlo in questa puntata.SEGUIMI SULinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/robertofiorettoIG: www.instagram.com/roberto_fiorettowww.counselingpost.it

Today's guest is Shannon Lietz, VP of Vulnerability Labs at Adobe. Shannon joined Hazel to talk about how she first got into offensive security and the lessons she's learned along the way, as well as the kind of work she and her team undertake at Adobe to test defenses. We also talk about measurement, and how security was never set up to be measured properly, which is something Shannon is trying to change. She also has some thoughts on risk management and tackling that in a different way. And at one of the most poignant parts of the interview, Shannon talks about the moment she decided to change her leadership style.If you're interested in the book Shannon mentioned, "Humanocracy" here's a link to the website www.humanocracy.comFinally, if you're free at 10am PT on April 26th, be sure to join Hazel plus special guests Accidental CISO, Liz Waddell and Christos Syngelakis, to discuss stories of how to build security resilience. Sign up to be reminded here - CiscoChat Live: Detect, Respond, Recover

Are you tired and discouraged from cold calling investors?Our guest, Eleanor Haglund, is the Founder of Allianse, a platform that provides a warm introduction to investors.The Allianse platform connects investors to vetted founders in an unbiased way both through search and tailored recommendations. Entrepreneurs get introductions to capital aligned with their mission and investors get early access to (and the ability to follow the journey of) startup deals they might otherwise miss.Allianse also provides founders with peer-to-peer community groups to help accelerate their learning while growing their business.Eleanor earned her MBA at Columbia University, was an inaugural member of the Innovation Scholars Program in Project Olympus and won awards in several start-up competitions like the Columbia Venture Challenge and Hack-a- Startup. To learn more about Allianse visit https://www.allianse.com/Connect with Eleanor and follow Allianse on these social platforms:Twitter: https://twitter.com/eleanorhaglund and https://twitter.com/StartupAllianse LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/startupallianse/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-haglund/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StartupAllianse/ Here's the book Eleanor mentioned: Humanocracy by Gary Hamel: https://amzn.to/3KheGWCThank you for carving out time to improve your Founder Game - when you do better, your business will do better - cheers!Ande ♥Ande Lyonshttp://andelyons.comCONNECT WITH ME: https://twitter.com/AndeLyonshttps://www.facebook.com/StartupLifew... https://www.linkedin.com/in/andelyons/ https://www.instagram.com/ande_lyons/ https://www.pinterest.com/andelyons/ https://angel.co/andelyons TikTok: @andelyonsANDELICIOUS RESOURCES:JOIN STARTUP LIFE LIVE MEETUP GROUPGet an alert whenever I post a new show!https://bit.ly/StartupLifeLIVEAGORAPULSEMy favorite digital marketing dashboard is AGORAPULSE – it's the best platform to manage your social media posts and presence! Learn more here: http://www.agorapulse.com?via=ande17STARTUP DOX Do you need attorney reviewed legal documents for your startup? I'm a proud community partner of Startup Dox, a new service provided by Selvarajah Law PC which helps you draw out all the essential paperwork needed to kickstart your business in a super cost-effective way. All the legal you're looking for… only without confusion or frustration. EVERY filing and document comes with an attorney review. You will never do it alone. Visit https://www.thestartupdox.com/ and use my discount code ANDE10 to receive 10% off your order.SPONSORSHIPIf you resonate with the show's mission of amplifying diverse founder voices while serving first-time founders around the world, please reach out to me to learn more about making an impact through sponsoring the Startup Life LIVE Show! ande@andelyons.com.STREAMYARD OVERLAYS AND GRAPHIC DESIGNNicky Pasquierhttps://www.virtuosoassistant.co.uk/Visit Nicky's CANVA Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhUDgDHkkma3YhOf7uy8TAbt7HdkXhSjONicky's Canva Presentation Playlist: http://bit.ly/Canva_Present_PlaylistGET VIDEO/AUDIO TRANSCRIBED WITH OTTER.AIhttps://bit.ly/StartupLifeOtter

Michele Zanini is the co-author of the Wall Street Journal Bestseller, Humanocracy. He is the co-founder of the Management Lab, where together with Gary Hamel, he helps forward-thinking organizations become more resilient, innovative and engaging places to work. Michele was previously a senior consultant at McKinsey & Company and a policy analyst at the RAND Corporation. His work has been featured in The Economist, Harvard Business Review, the Financial Times, and the Wall Street Journal. Michele joins the show to discuss how organizations have become so overburdened by bureaucracy and why new organizational models like those developed at Haier and Morningstar can be seen as socially dense markets. Tune in to this episode as we explore Industrial Age contracts, scalable freedom, the open source software movement and the continued need for management innovation. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/michele-zanini-2/      Key highlights we discussed: > Use case of overcoming bureaucracy and the authoritarian nature of organizations > The benefits of socially dense markets > Why freedom and control don't have to be trade-offs > The cultural reliance on hierarchical organizations > The need to consider management model innovation for the 21st century      To find out more about Michele's work:   > Twitter: https://twitter.com/michelezanini    > Website: https://www.humanocracy.com/    Other references and mentions:   > Simone Cicero, ‘Contracts and the Future of the Firm', 2021: https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/contracts-and-the-future-of-the-firm-3faf6ef27320  > Ronald Coase, The Nature of the Firm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm  > Buurtzorg: https://www.buurtzorg.com/ > Apache foundation: https://www.apache.org/    Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/   Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music   Recorded on 22 February 2022.

Gary Hamel is one of the world's most influential and iconoclastic business thinkers. He has worked with leading companies across the globe and is a dynamic and sought-after management speaker. Hamel has been on the faculty of the London Business School for more than 30 years and is the director of the Management Lab. Gary has written 20 articles for the Harvard Business Review and is the most reprinted author in the Review's history. His landmark books have been translated into more than 25 languages. His most recent bestsellers are Humanocracy and The Future of Management. In these volumes, Hamel presents an impassioned plea for reinventing management and lays out a practical blueprint for building organizations that are “fit for the future.” Fortune magazine describes Hamel as “the world's leading expert on business strategy,” and the Financial Times calls him a “management innovator without peer.” Hamel has been ranked by The Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker and is a fellow of the Strategic Management Society and of the World Economic Forum. In his work, Gary has led transformational efforts in some of the world's most notable companies and has helped to create billions of dollars in shareholder value. He is one of the world's most sought-after management speakers on the topics of strategy, leadership, innovation and change. In this podcast, he shares: What “strategic intent” is and why your strategy setting should begin with it How to address "leadership myopia" when you recognize it, and to make sure you don't develop itWhat his research shows are the four sources of breakthrough strategic ideas The source of the differentiating choices that will ultimately determine your competitive advantage__________________________________________________________________________________________"You start with an aspiration and then you work backward from that. You know, innovation is born in the gap between aspiration high and resources."-Gary Hamel__________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Introducing Gary + The topic of today's episode2:40—If you really know me, you know that....3:10—What is your definition of strategy?4:49—What would you say you are most known for?6:31—Second well-known article, The Core Competence of the Corporation8:40—The concept of "Strategies Revolution," looking at strategy as an innovation problem, and letting go of strategic planning10:30—How do you know if you're spending enough time on core initiatives vs. new initiatives?14:25—How to address "leadership myopia" when you recognize it19:12—Should all strategists start with strategic intent, or where if not?20:58—Where do new game-changing strategies come from?24:37—If you want to be the next "unicorn" creating a process for developing a portfolio of strategic options is essential 27:24—Learning to recognize patterns when developing strategic options29:58—The benefit of collaboration in making strategic decisions32:38—How can people connect and engage with you, and what are you working on next?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Columbia University Page: https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/cbs-directory/detail/jk2110Twitter: https://twitter.com/Jonathanaknee

Gary Hamel is one of the world's most influential and iconoclastic business thinkers. He has worked with leading companies across the globe and is a dynamic and sought-after management speaker. Hamel has been on the faculty of the London Business School for more than 30 years and is the director of the Management Lab. Gary has written 20 articles for the Harvard Business Review and is the most reprinted author in the Review's history. His landmark books have been translated into more than 25 languages. His most recent bestsellers are Humanocracy and The Future of Management. In these volumes, Hamel presents an impassioned plea for reinventing management and lays out a practical blueprint for building organizations that are “fit for the future.” Fortune magazine describes Hamel as “the world's leading expert on business strategy,” and the Financial Times calls him a “management innovator without peer.” Hamel has been ranked by The Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker and is a fellow of the Strategic Management Society and of the World Economic Forum. In his work, Gary has led transformational efforts in some of the world's most notable companies and has helped to create billions of dollars in shareholder value. He is one of the world's most sought-after management speakers on the topics of strategy, leadership, innovation and change. In this podcast, he shares: What “strategic intent” is and why your strategy setting should begin with it How to address "leadership myopia" when you recognize it, and to make sure you don't develop itWhat his research shows are the four sources of breakthrough strategic ideas The source of the differentiating choices that will ultimately determine your competitive advantage__________________________________________________________________________________________"You start with an aspiration and then you work backward from that. You know, innovation is born in the gap between aspiration high and resources."-Gary Hamel__________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Introducing Gary + The topic of today's episode2:40—If you really know me, you know that....3:10—What is your definition of strategy?4:49—What would you say you are most known for?6:31—Second well-known article, The Core Competence of the Corporation8:40—The concept of "Strategies Revolution," looking at strategy as an innovation problem, and letting go of strategic planning10:30—How do you know if you're spending enough time on core initiatives vs. new initiatives?14:25—How to address "leadership myopia" when you recognize it19:12—Should all strategists start with strategic intent, or where if not?20:58—Where do new game-changing strategies come from?24:37—If you want to be the next "unicorn" creating a process for developing a portfolio of strategic options is essential 27:24—Learning to recognize patterns when developing strategic options29:58—The benefit of collaboration in making strategic decisions32:38—How can people connect and engage with you, and what are you working on next?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Columbia University Page: https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/cbs-directory/detail/jk2110Twitter: https://twitter.com/Jonathanaknee

Er zijn volgens Hamel en Zanini veel redenen waarom een bureaucratie niet werkt. Bij zoveel motivatie waarom het niet werkt kwam de vraag in mij op, wat is er wel goed aan een bureaucratie? Tom legt in ons gesprek uit waar de bureaucratie vandaan komt en dat het wel degelijk een nut heeft in de publieke omgeving. Humanocracy is een interessant boek waarin je veel leert van voorbeelden uit de praktijk van bedrijven die het anders doen. Volgens Hamel en Zanini beter doen.Support the show: https://krant.nlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dagens podd spelades in i samband med ett webbinarium om framtidens förändringsledning där vi hade en panel med inbjudna gäster. Det är Henrik Eriksson som är forskare inom organisation och verksamhetsutveckling på Chalmers, Gabriella Grusell som är organisationspsykolog med lång erfarenhet av att jobba med förändringsledning och Janne Israelsson som är Director Change Management på Telia. Medverkar gör också Hanna Melin från Sonder som höll i chatten där deltagarna ställde frågor till panelen. Vi diskuterar vad förändringsledning egentligen handlar om och hur man kan jobba med förändringsledning där paneldeltagarna delar med sig av sina erfarenheter och perspektiv. Innan podden så kan jag passa på att ge några boktips med böcker vi nämner i podden. Henrik Eriksson har skrivit boken Sveriges bästa verksamheter utifrån sin forskning om hur ledarskapet fungerar inom de verksamheter som enligt olika kriterier kan klassas som de bästa inom sina branscher. I podden nämner vi även boken Humanocracy som skrivits av managementgurun Gary Hamel och forskaren Michel Zanini. Jag passar förstås på att tipsa även om min egen bok Ut ur boxen – förändringsledning på riktigt, om agil förändringsledning. Länkar: Sveriges bästa verksamheter https://www.adlibris.com/se/bok/sveriges-basta-verksamheter-9789189013605 Humanocracy https://www.adlibris.com/se/bok/humanocracy-9781633696020 Ut ur boxen - förändringsledning på riktigt https://www.adlibris.com/se/bok/ut-ur-boxen-forandringsledning-pa-riktigt-9789152358962 Sonders webbinariesida med kommande och inspelade webbinarier https://www.sonder.se/seminarier/

Guest Bio: Rita McGrath is a best-selling author,  sought-after advisor and speaker, and  longtime professor at Columbia Business School. Rita is one of the world's top experts on strategy and innovation and is consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50.  McGrath's recent book on strategic inflection points is Seeing Around Corners: How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2019). Rita is the author of four other books, including the best-selling The End of Competitive Advantage (Harvard Business Review Press, 2013). Since the onset of the pandemic, Rita has created workshops, strategy sessions and keynotes, applying her tools and frameworks to strategy under high levels of uncertainty to specific issues organizations are facing.  As Rui Barbas, the Chief Strategy Officer for Nestle USA said, “You were incredibly insightful and, despite the virtual setting, there was lots of engagement and comments from leaders sharing eye-opening observations and building on your examples throughout. You delivered the inspiration and illustration desired and it was exactly the right focus and challenge for this team. Appreciate your time throughout the process to align on content and delivery. The future-focus theme was the perfect close to our leadership summit.” Rita's work is focused on creating unique insights.  She has also founded Valize a companion company, dedicated to turning those insights into actionable capability.  You can find out more about Valize at www.valize.com. McGrath received her Ph.D. from the Wharton School (University of Pennsylvania) and has degrees with honors from Barnard College and the Columbia School of International and Public Affairs. She is active on all the main social media platforms, such as Twitter @rgmcgrath.  For more information, visit RitaMcGrath.com.   Social Media/ Websites: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ Twitter: @rgmcgrath Instagram: @ritamcgrathofficial Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/rgmcgrath Websites: https://ritamcgrath.com and valize.com Rita's Newsletter/ Articles Substack: https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ Medium: https://rgmcgrath.medium.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/thought-sparks-6787762418471755776/ Books Seeing Around Corners by Rita McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seeing-Around-Corners-Inflection-Business/dp/0358022339 The Entrepreneurial Mindset by Rita Gunther McGrath and Ian MacMillian https://www.amazon.co.uk/Entrepreneurial-Mindset-Continuously-Opportunity-Uncertainty/dp/0875848346 The End of Competitive Advantage by Rita Gunther McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Competitive-Advantage-Strategy-Business/dp/1422172813 Disrupt Yourself by Whitney Johnson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disrupt-Yourself-New-Introduction-Relentless/dp/1633698785 Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/1633696022 Reimagining Capitalism by Rebecca Henderson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reimagining-Capitalism-Business-Save-World/dp/0241379660 When More is Not Better by Roger L. Martin https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-More-Not-Better-Overcoming/dp/1647820065/ Being An Adult by Lucy Tobin https://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Adult-ultimate-getting-together-ebook/dp/B07GQ1KRTC/ Only The Paranoid Survive by Andy Grove https://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/dp/1861975139  Ula Ojiaku: My guest today is Dr. Rita McGrath. She's a best-selling author, a sought-after speaker and advisor and consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50. In this episode, Rita talked about the concept of inflection points from her book ‘Seeing Around Corners' and how as leaders, we can train ourselves to spot these inflection points and act on the information we receive. She also talked about making complex things simple for the people we work with. I learnt a lot speaking with Rita and I'm sure you will find this conversation insightful as well. Thank you again for watching! It's an honor to have you on the show, Rita McGrath. Many, many thanks for joining us. Rita McGrath: Well, thank you Ula. It's a pleasure to be here. Ula Ojiaku: Great. Now, can you tell us about yourself? How did the Rita, Dr. Rita McGrath we know today evolve? Rita McGrath:  Well, it would have to start with my parents, of course. I mean, all great stories start with your parents. And so, my parents were both scientists. My mother was a Microbiologist, and my father was an Organic Chemist. And so, I grew up in a house where, you know, (if) a question couldn't be answered, you went and got the reference book and figured it out. And both, (had) incredible respect for science and for diligence. And, you know, the house was always full of books and lots of emphasis on learning. I wouldn't say we were, financially all that well-off – we weren't poor by any means. But it was, you know, there wasn't like a lot of money to spare, but there was always money for books, and there was always money for, you know, educational experiences and that kind of thing. So, that's the household I grew up in. So, my parents, when I was born, were both on the staff at the Yale Medical School. So, they were both researchers there. And then my dad in the late 60s, got an offer to go join this upstart, fledgling company that was at the cutting edge of all kinds of things in his field and that was Xerox Corporation. And he was very conflicted about leaving academia, but went off eventually to Xerox. So, we moved the family to Rochester, New York. So that's where I did most of my growing up. And my mother at that time, decided to stay home, more or less. And then she started a scientific translation business. So, she moved into an entrepreneurial career more than her scientific career. And then when it came time to go to college, I went to Barnard College in the City of New York. I'd always thought New York was an amazing place and was accepted there. So, went off to New York, did my Bachelor's and my Master's in Political Science and Public Policy. I was very interested in public policy and matters of social contract and those kinds of things. And then my first job was actually with the City of New York, I ran purchasing systems for government agencies. It doesn't sound very glamorous. But today, we would call it digital transformation. It was the very first wave of companies taking their operations in a digital form. And it was very exciting and I learned a lot. Then I got to the end of… the thing about public service is when you start, there's (this) unlimited sort of growth that can happen for a few years, and then it really just levels off. And you're never going to go beyond that. So, I kind of reached that headroom and decided to do something different. Ula Ojiaku:  Was it at that point that you decided to go for your PhD? Rita McGrath:  And that was one of the options I was considering. And my husband basically said, ‘look, if you get into a top five school, it's worth doing and if you don't, it's probably not.' But you have to think in that time, MBA programs were just exploding, and there'd been a lot of pressure on the administrators of MBA programs, to put PhD accredited faculty in front of their students. The big knock against the MBA at the time was, oh, they're just trade schools. You know, we've got some guy who ran an entire company comes in and talks and that's not really academically suitable. And so, there was a huge pressure for schools to find PhD accredited people-  that still exists (but) the market pressures has changed a lot. But when I was doing my PhD, it was pretty sure I would get a job if I managed to complete the degree. So that that gave me that extra input to do that. Ula Ojiaku:  Did you already have like children when you started the PhD? Rita McGrath: Yes Ula Ojiaku:  And how did you cope? Rita McGrath:  Our son was, how old was he? He would have been nine months old when I started my PhD program. Yeah. Ula Ojiaku: Wow, 9 months old. Rita McGrath: Oh, yeah, it was a real challenge. And I guess everybody manages those kinds of challenges in their own way. But yeah, it was a struggle because, you know, typical day would be you know, get up, get the baby to daycare or wherever and then do school or whatever I had to do that day. And then it was sort of pick them up. By the time I had a second child it was pick them up, get them dinner, get them bedtime, get them story, and then I'll be back at my desk at nine o'clock at night, trying to do what I needed to do. So, it was a new turn. It was tough. It was difficult years. I mean, joyful years though but it was just hard to fit everything in. Ula Ojiaku:  I can imagine. I mean, although I'm thinking of starting my PhD (studies), my children aren't that small but I do remember the time (they were), you know, I was still working full time. So, the challenge is you'd go to work and then come back to work. I mean, to another type of work. And then when they go to bed, the work continues. Yeah, it's interesting. Rita McGrath: Quite exhausting. Ula Ojiaku: You can say that. I'm so glad they're not in diapers anymore. So, it's baby steps, we are getting there. So, can we go on to your book, “Seeing Around Corners, How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen”. I'd like to start from an unusual place in the book. I started from the dedication page, and you know, reading everything, and I noticed that, you referred to a conversation, one of the last conversations you had with your mother. Could you tell us about that? Rita McGrath:  Oh sure. She was well, at the time, she was quite ill, she had sarcoma in her lung, and she was quite ill. It's a horrible disease, and we haven't got any real treatments for it. So, the recommendation is you do chemo and that really knocks you out. So, she was quite ill and sort of migrating between the chair and the couch and the chair and the couch. And in one of those conversations, she just said ‘I want you to know I'm proud of you. And I've had a good life and I'm prepared for whatever comes next.' And I thought that was lovely of her to say and I thought in that moment to pass it on to all these other women. And you know you bring up motherhood and being a working woman and all those complicated emotions that come with that because there seems to be guilt around every corner you know, if you're not at home full time, oh you're a terrible mom. And if you're not at work full time, you're a terrible worker. I just I think so many of those things are just designed to twist us up into little balls. And when I look at my own mother's experience - she was a working woman… I grew up but I think I'm third or fourth generation working woman so it never even occurred to me that wouldn't be possible. But I think what often is missing is this validation, you know that for women who are trying to you know make their way professionally and be great, responsible parents and do all these other things that often there's a sense of a lack of self-worth you know, ‘oh, I'm not doing enough.' The more I hear that… Ula Ojiaku:  I feel like that some… most days I feel like that… Rita McGrath: Believe me, you are doing enough Ula Ojiaku:  Sometimes I ask my children, am I a good mom? Rita McGrath:  I think part of it too is we, and when I say we, I mean baby boomer mothers and maybe a little younger. We got ourselves all tangled up in this if it's not like organic, hand-processed  lima beans with you know, organic succotash, mixed in you know, it's not good baby food. Honestly, Gerber's exists to provide perfectly nutritious food for really young babies and they've been doing it for decades and you can trust that and if it makes your life easier, go with it. Ula Ojiaku:  Thank you! Rita McGrath: You know, I think we I think we get ourselves all tossed up in like, what does good mean? I mean, honestly, the kids don't mind you know? I mean, they'd celebrate if it was chicken finger night. Ula Ojiaku:  Let's go to the book. You know, because in your book you said you it's about how to spot inflections before they happen in business. Can you give us examples of, you know, businesses that had these inflection points occur, and they failed to recognize it and what was the impact? Rita McGrath:  Sure, let's take one that is quite sad to me, which is Intel. And Intel built its, well, Intel went through a major inflection point, in fact, the originator of the concept was Andy Grove, who was their former CEO. And he talked about his inflection points in his book, Only the Paranoid Survive, which is really a brilliant, brilliant book. And one of the reasons I wrote my book was that very little had been done since his book on that topic. And Grove built this incredible company, Intel. And they were making microprocessor chips. And they were very, very powerful, very fast chips. And so, the assumptions inside Intel's business model was, what customers were going to pay for was faster, faster, faster, more computation power, more and more powerful. But what they didn't really think about was energy consumption. And as the world went more mobile… so the Intel product is the PC, and the PC, the desktop PC remains firmly plugged into the wall. And then later, we make PC chips that maybe have slightly lower power consumption to power PCs, but it's still that notion of power, you know, and I think the inflection point that caught Intel by surprise, to some extent was, this movement towards mobile, where the vast majority of chips being made were these completely different architecture chips by  companies like ARM and you know, and companies like that, which, from their inception, recognized that low power was the way to go. Then they weren't very powerful in the sense of speed, which is what Intel was driving its business towards. But they were powerful in the sense of ubiquitous low power, long battery life, that kind of thing. And I think that's an example of the kind of assumption that can cause a company to get into trouble, when the underlying shift in the business environment says, ‘wait a minute, this thing you've been building all this time may not be what is needed by the marketplace.' Ula Ojiaku:  That's interesting. So, it brings me to the point of, the points you made about, you know, the indicators, the early warnings, and you mentioned the concept of you know lagging, current and leading indicators. And there was an emphasis in your book on, you know, leading indicators. Could you tell us a bit about that? Rita McGrath:  Sure. Well, so leading indicators are today's information about tomorrow's possibilities. And what we unfortunately rely on a lot in business is lagging indicators - so profits, performance, you know, ROI, all those things are lagging some kind of decision that you made a long time ago. So, the concept of leading indicators is to try to get business leaders to think about what would have to be true, you know, before I was able to make a certain decision, what are the leading indicators? So, an example would be back in the 90s, computer scientists all over the world realized that come the year 2000, from the turn of the millennium, that the way computer programs had been programmed, was only two digits for the year. And so, when the year went to zero-zero, computers, were going to think it was 1900 and this was going to be terrible. Because they all get out of sync, you know, and planes would drop out of the sky. You're gonna become unstable, and you'll all need to move to Montana and stuff … I don't know if you can remember this. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah, the Y2K bug… Rita McGrath: Oh my goodness…! Ula Ojiaku: It was a big sensation. Yeah… Rita McGrath: Apocalyptic – remember?! And yet, when the big moment came the year 2000. What happened? Well, nothing happened. Why did nothing happen? We looked at that early warning, and we said, whoa, if that happens, it's bad. And then so companies, prodded by their accounting firms, prodded by other security considerations invested billions in correcting that flaw. And so, that's an example of an early warning. And there are a couple of things to understand about early warning. So, the first important thing is, the measure of a good early warning is not, did it predict what happened. The measure of a good leading indicator is, did it help you prepare for what might happen? And so, I think that's a really important distinction, because we oftentimes, oh, you that didn't predict this or that. But that's not the point. The point is, did it help you think more broadly about what might happen so that you could be prepared? So, I think that's the first thing. The second thing to remember about leading indicators is they're often not quantitative in the way that we like to think about quantitative things. They're often qualitative. They often take the form of stories. And they often come from what are called unrepresentative parts of your mental ecosystem. So, you know, it's that person on the loading dock (saying to themselves), ‘this is, well, that's weird, a customer never asked for that before', or the person answering the phone, you know, in headquarters going, ‘Well, I don't understand why they need that information…' You know, it's those little anomalies or things that depart from business as usual, that are often the weak signals that you need to be paying attention to. Ula Ojiaku:  So, can you give us an example where you mean, I mean, of how we can go about choosing good leading indicators? Rita McGrath:  Well, in the book, I describe a technique that I use, which is you take a couple of uncertainties and juxtapose them on each other. And that gives you four or more you can do this for as many as you like, stories from the future, possibly a future that we could live in. And then depending on which one you want to think about, you say, ‘okay, I'm gonna write a headline as if it came from a newspaper story about that scenario. And I'm gonna work backwards and say, what has to be true for that headline to emerge.' So, take an example that's playing out right now, chronic and accelerating decline in birth rates in the United States. People are just deciding not to enlarge their families or not to start their families at all. And for very good reasons, you know, the level of social support for families is very low. Mostly women are bearing the burden. And very often women are the ones that make a large part of the decision about whether the family is going to grow or not. And so, we're facing a real baby bust. Well, if that's true, and we follow that along, well, what are some things that would be early warnings or indicators of what that world will be like? Well, you'll see a decline of working people relative to retired people, or people needing assistance, you'll see, you know, fewer kids with more resources to support them. So, the kind of baby Prince phenomena we saw in China. There are lots of things you can kind of work through. But once you say, ‘okay, I see a world with a million fewer children three years from now, than we would have expected well, okay, what now working backward? What does that tell us we need to be paying attention to today? Ula Ojiaku:  Yes, yes. That's a great example. And I wonder, though, so given all, you know, the research that has led to, and your experience as well, consulting with, you know, most of these large organizations, the case studies, you've come to witness and all that, what would you, what would be your advice to leaders of such organizations, you know, in terms of how they can better prepare themselves or equip themselves to recognize these inflection points, and lead effectively? Rita McGrath:  Well, I think the first principle is you have to be discovery driven. In other words, you have to be curious about what's going on. And if you're the kind of leader who (when) someone brings you a piece of information, and instead of treating it like a gift, you're like, oh no, you don't understand that's wrong. That's not the way the world works. If you're dismissive of information people are bringing you that's very dangerous. Because the information you need is not going to come from your lieutenants at headquarters, it's going to come from that guy on the loading dock. So, I think you want to think about establishing some kind of information flows, that go directly from where the phenomena are happening to your desk. So, as an example, a company I really admire is the German metal services company Klockner. And their CEO, Gisbert Ruehl was taking them through a digital transformation. And his big concern was not that they meant it, right? But that his lieutenants, his middle manager, cohort, would be so expert, and so experienced at the way business was, that they would just shut down these digital efforts. And he was very, very concerned about that. He said, well, I need some way of making my message heard directly to the people that are on the frontlines and I also need a way of hearing from them what's going on. So, he implemented Yammer, called non-hierarchical communication. And the deal was anybody in the company that had something he needed to know should feel comfortable sending him a note. And I'm told, I don't know this for a fact that I'm told that at headquarters, he had his instance of Yammer set up so that the lower the hierarchical level of the person, the higher it came in his newsfeed. Ula Ojiaku: Oh, wow. Rita McGrath: So, you know, I can talk to my lieutenants, anytime. Information I need is in the, you know, 24-year-old person who's just joined us with an engineering degree, who's looking at our manufacturing process for screwdrivers and saying, ‘Why do you do it that way? There must be a better way of doing this…' That's the information I really need and he set up a whole system to try to get that information to him, to himself. Ula Ojiaku:  Would you say there's a typical kind of leader with, you know, some certain characteristics that's best equipped to spot the inflection point, and you know, kind of lead the charge and get the organizations in line? Rita McGrath:  You know, I think it's more of the behavior, it's not the characteristics. So, I've seen charismatic, attractive, you know, movie star type CEOs be good at this. I've seen people you look at and you go ‘Really? He looks kind of like he slept in his clothes all night.' I've seen those people be good at it. So, you know, I think the differentiation is this, this hunger for new information, this curiosity, this relentless… ‘tell me again…' and ‘why was that and why was that?' It is this urgent need to really learn what's going on. And then and then putting yourself in the, in the context. So, one of the people I'm working with right now is a brilliant retail CEO, and everything. And one of the things he would do before hiring anybody into his senior team, is he would spend a day or two walking the stores, you know, and in his explanation to me was, ‘I want to see how they react to the stores. I want to see how they treat the people working in stores. I want to see what they notice, you know, I want to see if they notice that there's a thing out of array and I want to see how they are with me, like if they spend their whole two days in store visits, sucking up to me - that's not somebody I need, you know. And so, I think the best leaders along those lines are people who are relentlessly curious, bring people around them who are diverse, you know, you don't just want echo chambers of themselves. Ula Ojiaku:  True, true. You don't want ‘yes' men if you really want to make an impact really. Yeah, and how can I, as a person, train myself to also recognize these inflection points. Rita McGrath:  Well, it depends what the inflection point is. So, if it's a question of, you've been making nice steady progress in your career, and now you've hit some kind of ceiling and you just feel you're not growing or developing any more, then that choice is really okay, I need to… the way Whitney Johnson would put this, she's written a great book on this, “Disrupt Yourself”, right? You go up this S curve, then you need to make the decision if you're going to take on the J curve, right, which is the part below the S curve before you get into the next round of learning. So, that's a personal decision, really only you can make a decision like that. Then there are the cases where inflection points are thrust upon you. So you lose a job, your spouse has some setback, a family member has an urgent need that makes whatever you were doing before impossible. I mean, there's all kinds of outside things that can happen to you. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah… Rita McGrath: And I think the best way to try to look at those is. ‘is this a slingshot to a better future, potentially?' And you know, how many people have you talked to who got fired, and some years later say, ‘that was the best thing that ever happened to me, it shook me out of my complacency. It made me think differently.' And so, I think a lot of times, you know, we, it's very comfortable (staying) stuck in our ruts. And sometimes it takes a bit of a jolt to get us out of that. Ula Ojiaku:  That's a great one. Can I just ask you about so it's not really about your book, Seeing Around Corners, but this one is about the Entrepreneurial Mindset? Just one quick question. Because there's a quote, in your book, that book that says, you know, “the huge part of becoming an entrepreneurial leader is learning to simplify complexity, so that your co-workers can act with self-confidence.” That quote, it made me kind of be more conscious about, am I really making things simpler for my co-workers instead of, you know, rather than to enable us, you know, achieve the best that we could as a group? So why did you, make that quote and associate it with an Entrepreneurial Mindset? Rita McGrath:  Well, because if you make things complicated for people, there's maybe three responses, right? One is they'll start on whatever they start on, which is kind of random. And maybe they finish it, and maybe they don't, but it's really now you're leaving it to chance. Because if you give people more to digest than they can manage, you're going to get back some fraction of it. So that's one thing. Second thing that happens is, if it's too complex, a lot of times people will pick what they want to do, not have anything to do with the agenda that you want to set for the organization. And the third thing is there's just a laziness that comes from having things be complex. I know for myself, when I've had to do strategy statements for myself, or my business, it takes a long, long time to get it done into a few simple things. And each word has to mean something. So, as an example, some years back, I started a sister company. It's called Valize. And the strategy really is to its mission, its purpose for me, is to help organizations create innovation and transformation capability as the basis for shared prosperity. And that sounds really simple. That sounds really kind of ‘duh, that's not so grand, but I mean, the hours it took to get to that simplicity of statement. And then once you've got something like that, you can go back and you could say, okay, well, here's the thing that I'm being asked to do or think I'm thinking of, does it build capability? Yes. No. Does it build shared prosperity? Yes, no. Does it help organizations to help themselves? Yes, no. And it sorts out a lot of stuff means a lot of stuff we could do. But there are only a few things that really fit into that sweet spot of shared capability. So, having that simplification allows you to clear out a lot of the …, there are always wonderful options that you got to do things, right? And it's a question of abundance, you've usually got more great options than you could possibly exercise. So, picking the best ones is the challenge. Ula Ojiaku:  Wow, wow. I'm going to listen to this part again. You've mentioned some books already, like Andy Grove's, Only the Paranoid, I mean, Only the Paranoid survive. And you've mentioned the book, Disrupt Yourself… In addition to these books, and your wonderful suite of books, what other books would you recommend to the audience that you believe have influenced you that you'd recommend to the listeners that would help them you know, learn more about this topic? Rita McGrath: Oh, that's hard, because there's so many. Well, I love Safi Bahcall's Loonshots. I think that's a brilliant, brilliant book. And it really gets to the heart of how innovation actually happens rather than how we think it happens. I rather like Gary Hamel's and Michele Zanini's book, Humanocracy which has the basic question, you know, if you look at Instagram, or Twitter or any of these social platforms, you see these people who are just brilliant. I mean, they're creating incredibly creative stuff. And then we put them inside companies. And we insist that they do things by the rule, and we block all the creativity out of them. So, why do we do that? You know, I think that's a really great one. I'm very taken with Rebecca Henderson's, Re-imagining Capitalism in a World on Fire. Very, very brilliant. Roger Martin, When More is not Better. Just recently had a Julie Lythcott-Haims on my fireside chat program, which is and she's got a book called Your Turn, How to be an Adult”, which is, on a personal level, absolutely fascinating - really good book. I like Peter Sim's, Little Bets. You know, they're just so many I mean, I wouldn't even know where to where to start. Those are the ones that are sort of top of mind at the moment. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. scribbling away as you're talking, and yeah, these all these would be in the show notes with the links to them. So that's great. Now, how can the audience reach you? If they want to, you know follow your work. Rita McGrath: The best place to start is my website, which is really ritamcgrath.com, that's easy. I have columns that I write for. They're currently going up on substack and medium. If you just search my name and or medium, you'll find me there. I do weekly, LinkedIn post, which goes to subscribers on LinkedIn. Also, that's all sort of good places to start. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. Are you on social media? Rita McGrath:  Oh, yes. So yes. I'm on Twitter @RGMcGrath. And I'm on LinkedIn. Okay. I'm not on Facebook so much. But I have put things I post there, but I'm not really on it very much. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. All right. That's, I mean, thanks for those. Now, let's wrap up any ask of the audience first? Rita McGrath:  I think we're in a remarkable moment, right now, you know, we've had so many of our previous habits and assumptions disrupted, that I think it would be a shame to lose, to lose all that and just go back to the way things were. So, I think it's an opportunity to reflect and to really think about, what kind of future do we want to build now that so many of our assumptions and institutions have been challenged, and we learned whole new tricks, we learned whole new ways to do things. Let's not just snap back to the way it was, let's think about inventing better. Rita McGrath:  Really, I think there's going to be great opportunity coming out of this current crisis and those who are thinking ahead will benefit from it. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay, great. Well, Rita, thank you so much for your time, and it's been a pleasure again, having you on the show. Rita McGrath: Thank you very much.

We're back with the first episode of the new season and we're so excited! Our guest for this episode is Jodee Bock, Director of People Development with BNG Team, and a participant in this summer's Rural Bus Tour. Jodee joins us to talk about the tour, about urban-rural collaboration, and corporate investment in small towns. This episode also includes a little update about what's been going on with Growing Small Towns--big things have been happening while we've been away for the summer!   About Jodee   Jodee Bock is a dynamic business communicator who encourages people to practice riskful thinking as opposed to merely wishful thinking. By encouraging them to think beyond their reasons, she leaves audiences with new insights, along with ideas for turning their knowledge into action.   Jodee is the founder of Bock's Office Transformational Consulting and has more than 20 years of experience in the areas of corporate communication, media relations, executive coaching, and training and development. She holds certifications in Life Purpose and Career Coaching, Extreme Leadership, PSYCH-K Facilitation, Job Relations Training (JRT), Bob Proctor's Life Success Consulting®, and Accelerated Innovation Training and Coaching from SolutionPeople in Chicago.   The author of several books, podcast interviews, speeches, and blog posts, Jodee is a thought leader who has been called a boat rocker and a people enhancer, thanks to her unique ability to add a new perspective to common ways of thinking.   Jodee is a highly sought-after keynote speaker, workshop facilitator, and business consultant. She has spoken at events all over the United States and designed and delivered customized workshops and seminars for hundreds of clients.   In this episode, we cover:   What's happening with Growing Small Towns The Rural Resources Roadtrip What rural/urban and regional collaboration might look like Why being a Pollyanna is sometimes okay The importance of being authentic in our strengths and talents and gifts   Links + Resources Mentioned   Jodee's Website: https://jodeebock.com/ Nome Schoolhouse Episode: https://www.growingsmalltowns.org/post/episode76 Kahoot app: https://kahoot.com/ Humanocracy book: https://www.amazon.com/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/1633696022   Subscribe + Review Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of The Growing Small Towns Show! If the information in our conversations and interviews has helped you in your small town, head out to Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or Spotify, subscribe to the show, and leave us an honest review. Your reviews and feedback will not only help us continue to deliver relevant, helpful content, but it will also help us reach even more small-town trailblazers just like you!

Today I am talking about Human Resources and their true effect on the culture of an organization. What does it really mean to be truly HUMAN in a corporate setting? I reference Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini's book Humanocracy and also Marcus Buckingham and Ashley Goodall's book Nine Lies About Work in today's episode. How might our corporations shift if we celebrate the heart and soul and spirit inside the corpus?

Welcome to the LIVEforward Institute Living Room Conversations!We have seen the catalytic power of conversations in the work that we do, as well as the impact that it brings to our world.Our Living Room is a space for us to connect, to explore thoughts and learnings, in a relaxed and very human way. Through this channel, we look forward to an engaging dialogue and resonance with our guests, and bring a breath of fresh air to the space we occupy in this virtual world.To our listeners and followers, we hope to create an opportunity to candidly eavesdrop and chime in to one of the many interesting conversations around the space of teal, agile and the future of work.On this conversation we welcome Michele Zanini Co-founder, MLab and Co-author, Humanocracy.

We are excited to welcome Charlotte Lee as a co-curator of our new Civic Design conference and community, which will be launching soon with our first monthly videoconference. Sign up here to be notified: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/civic-design-2021/ In this episode, Charlotte and Lou discuss the intersection of design and technology, machine learning, how the House of Representatives legislates, and more. She also shares details about her current project, redesigning congress.gov, and a peek into what you can expect from the Civic Design Conference. Looking for a great read? Charlotte recommends: Humanocracy https://www.humanocracy.com/ by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini About Charlotte: Charlotte Lee is an award-winning entrepreneur and human-centered design practitioner based in Washington D.C. She is the founder and CEO of Monday Design Company, a service design consultancy as well as Kastling Group, a digital transformation consultancy. She is a strategic advisor to public and private executives in organizations undergoing IT modernization. Many of her clients seek partnership to help execute their vision of a holistic view of transformation that places human achievement as the measure of success. Her professional path in product management and user experience design was taken with the vision of a more human-friendly world in every way. Charlotte's current portfolio at the House of Representatives exemplifies her two biggest passions- human centricity and strengthening democracy. She is very energized by the opportunity to apply HCD and design thinking to examine and reimagine the way ideas turn into law.

Un business che cresce è un business in cui tutti coltivano l'intrapreneurship, ovvero lo spirito imprenditoriale. Nel viaggio di oggi parliamo di imprenditività grazie a Shopify, un'azienda che fonda la company culture su questa soft skill e lo concludiamo con Humanocracy, il libro che ci dimostra perché possiamo (e dobbiamo) liberarci della burocrazia in azienda. Ci confrontiamo sull'importanza dei comportamenti in azienda con Roberta Marinelli, HR Senior director di Eli Lilly, e Michele Luconi, socio fondatore e key account manager di Flowing, con cui parliamo anche di come gestire un'azienda full-remote.

We are happy to be speaking to Panos Tzivanidis, the Director of Corporate Events and Services for the International Olympic Committee (IOC), today.  Panos has a lot to share about the power of networking, time, talent, technology, the Tokyo Olympic Games, and what is going on in the events industry. We hope you will enjoy our conversation!  Panos Tzivanidis's bio: Panos Tzivanidis is the Director of Corporate Events & Services for IOC, the International Olympic Committee, widely known for the Organisation of the Olympic Games, with headquarters in Lausanne, Switzerland. Panos and his team are responsible for a large variety of activities, including all events organized by the IOC worldwide, as well as all accommodation needs, travel, accreditation for the Olympic family for all events around the Games period, as well as the Olympic Club; the main and exclusive Hospitality area for the Olympic family, Head of States, their Top VIP & Dignitaries guests. Under his responsibility is also Facilities Management and general services for all IOC premises.  Panos has direct responsibility and decision power for a large variety of activities including all strategic marketing events organized by the International Olympic Committee worldwide. Reporting for specific projects, directly to the President and Director-General of the IOC, is accountable for a budget of over USD 50M and a team of 88 permanent staff and over 100 contractors during major events.  Panos is responsible for the strategic planning, all operational aspects, content coordination as well as all events during and around the Olympic Games period. His role often brings him to the negotiation table with local authorities and government representatives to create a win-win situation for all parties involved.  He joined IOC in June 2013 after having spent two years as the Head of Conferences for UEFA, widely known for the organization of the Champions League, Europa League, and National teams EURO soccer tournaments, and previously having spent 11 years with SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication), and organizer of Sibos, the world's premier annual financial services event. Panos was the Head of Events at Sibos, dealing with all organizational aspects and strategic planning of the exhibition and the conference in all five continents that the Sibos event was organized.  His profession has allowed him to travel to all corners of the world becoming an expert on international relations, having represented the companies he worked for and negotiated with the highest authorities in many different countries and cultures. Panos is a great believer in the power of networking amongst the people in the events/conference & marketing industry worldwide. He is also a great believer in team spirit and its positive impact on success.  Personal motto: Those who speak, don't know, and those who know, don't speak. Some background From a young age, Panos enjoyed being in the hospitality industry, being among people, and socializing. His parents sent him to a hotel management school in Switzerland. Later, when he started working after his military service, he went into the Banqueting Department of a hotel, where he became involved with events. He realized that that was what he wanted to do, and since then, he has never left that path. The world of sports While living in Belgium, Panos got headhunted back to Switzerland and into UEFA. It was a challenge for him because he knew nothing about sporting events at the time. Panos was fortunate enough to organize Champions League Finals and European Cups and spend time with the big players. Joining the IOC and the Olympic Movement Being Greek, Panos felt that it was a tremendous opportunity for the IOC (International Olympic Committee) and the Olympic Movement.  The mix of time, talent, and technology Panos believes that if you miss one of what he calls “The Three T's” (time, talent, and technology), nothing is happening. He feels that those three T's are vital in all industries. Time is valuable Time is valuable. Over the last few years, every individual from the participants to the organizers, started realizing that the time that they invest is valuable and will give them a return.  Time well spent Panos wanted people to leave his events feeling fulfilled and knowing that their time was well-spent. That has not changed since COVID.  Panos Tzivanidis's thoughts on technology  Panos believes that technology is moving so fast that the events industry will always have followers. For him, technology is not about following. It is about sometimes taking small risks. Talent Talent in the events industry has always been a challenge. Panos feels that is because there is a problem with defining the events industry and marketing it. Young people want to know what the events industry is all about and why they should get into it. Empowering the younger generation Panos feels that the events industry is not empowering the younger generation because they may not take the initiative and do things differently. Things are changing Things are changing, so we need to adapt. The President of the IOC uses the motto of “change, or be changed.” Do things differently People should have the right to think and do things differently. Management, and team leaders, should also be trusted to live up to what they say. A misconception There is a misconception that the younger generations are constantly behind screens and do not care about human interaction. Panos believes that they are capable of communicating in a way that the older generations cannot understand.  Hybrid The world will never be completely virtual in years to come. It will be hybrid. Panos thinks that many good things will come out of hybrid. Ecology and the planet In the future, new ways will have to be found for airlines to fuel themselves. Like biofuels, for example. What Panos Tzivanidis has to say about networking Networking will become easier, according to Panos. New technology will allow for the possibility for people to interact better and in more spontaneous ways. Emotions People need emotions. With events and big groups of people, Panos has not yet found a way to create the same emotions as those created in one-to-one conversations. That is why he thinks that physical networking will always be most important. The museum The museum had to close due to the coronavirus. When the coronavirus measures became more relaxed, however, and the museum reopened, Panos could see that many people were eager and willing to visit, even with the coronavirus restrictions in place. He attributes that to the emotions that the museum evokes. The museum had the same number of visitors as in any normal year recently, even with the restaurants and outlets closed due to COVID-19. Tokyo They have been pumping up everything to do with Tokyo in the museum.  Tokyo Olympics Many people from all over the world are busy gearing up for the Tokyo Olympics, even though it will be different because of COVID-19. The priority is the safety and wellbeing of the athletes because the Olympic Games are essentially about the athletes. Connect with Eric On LinkedIn On Facebook On Instagram On Website Connect with Panos Tzivanidis On Website On LinkedIn On Twitter Book mentioned: Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini Links to some interesting videos:  The Greatest Show on Earth | IBTM Meets: Panos Tzivanidis   Olympians and Meeting Professionals - not so different after all   2019 inspirational graduation speech: Panos Tzivanidis, from Les Roches to the International Olympic Committee   - Video starts at 15:00  International & European Associations Congress   Grimaldi marketing  Greek Marketing Institute (in Greek)  

In this episode of the mi-brand HQ podcast, I was interviewed by Carla Cabrera González, Director, International Division at Claire Joster International, the Executive Search Division of EUROFIRMS Group, the second largest provider of HR Services in Spain, for her YouTube Series - “Humanocracy” - ‘The Future of Talent'. During this interview, I speak about – What you can do to get ahead in your career and create opportunities The valuable tips to thrive at work by building your personal brand How to be visible and show up as the best version of yourself The importance of nurturing the right network around us You can connect with Carla on LinkedIn at – https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlacabreragonzalez/ Check her Youtube channel at –  Carla Cabrera Humanocracy The future of Talent https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRDisQfMbwKr4FqVaVEVJEA The Life Leadership Podcast – with Leila Singh, is all things Coaching, Career & Personal Branding! This podcast is for ambitious career professionals, especially aspiring executives, working in the technology industry, wanting to uncover your real potential, create new possibilities and accelerate your career - to BE DO & HAVE more, whilst redefining your success, in work, relationships, health and much more. Life Leadership: Creating a life and career of choice, fulfilment and new possibilities! As well as discussing common coaching topics and challenges that my clients overcome, I will also explore aspects of career advancement and personal branding in the workplace.  And of course, continue to interview high-achieving leaders and execs in the tech space, who have carved out a successful career in their field, overcome challenges, and are openly willing to share their career journey, learnings and insights with you. Please SUBSCRIBE to this podcast, leave a REVIEW and SHARE with those that may benefit from this content. If you would like to learn more about working with me, Direct Message me on LinkedIn or email me at ⁠⁠⁠hello@leilasingh.com⁠⁠⁠ Connect directly with me here - ⁠⁠⁠www.linkedin.com/in/leila-singh/⁠⁠⁠ Register here to receive your copy of The mi-brand Personal Brand Playbook - ⁠⁠⁠www.leilasingh.com/go/playbook⁠⁠⁠ And check out - >>> This article by https://BestPodcasts.co.uk, who curated a list of the Best Career Podcasts of 2023, offering unique and actionable insights to help you achieve your career goals - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.bestpodcasts.co.uk/best-career-podcasts/⁠⁠ with our podcast ‘Life Leadership' featuring in the Top 5! >>> https://blog.Feedspot.com whose editorial team extensively researched and curated a list of the Top 15 Life Leadership Podcasts across all platforms, featuring 'Life Leadership' in the Top 3! With ranking based on factors including - Podcast content quality - Episode consistency - Age of podcast - Engagement & shares of the podcast across social platforms. ⁠⁠15 Best Life Leadership Podcasts You Must Follow in 2023 (feedspot.com)

We are both honored and delighted to be speaking to Randy Pennington today! Randy is very well-known in our industry. Not only is he a great thinker, but he is also someone who can look into implementing strategies that positively impact your organization, your business, or yourself. He is a leading voice in our industry who has been involved with many major industry associations and he has also written several books.  We are sure you will enjoy our conversation with Randy Pennington today! Randy Pennington's bio Randy Pennington helps leaders deliver positive results in a world of endless uncertainty and change. Randy's original insights are grounded in a unique blend of solid research and continuing hands-on work with leaders and organizations in various industries. Whether you need a keynote presentation, facilitation, a strategic workshop, or in-depth consulting and advisory support, Randy's ability to develop solutions that work in your world provide a catalyst for delivering results. Randy is the author of the award-winning books Results Rule! and Make Change Work. His insights have appeared in Fast Company, Entrepreneur, the New York Times in numerous newspapers and many professional/trade association journals, and contributor to the Huffington Post. His expertise has made him a respected guest commentator with appearances on CNN, PBS, Fox News, the ABC Radio Network, and the BBC. His background is a unique blend of line, staff, and consulting experience ranging from hourly employee to senior management. He holds a Bachelors and Masters Degree in Psychology and has completed Postgraduate work in Organization Administration and Management. Along the way, Randy has been a senior executive in a start-up mental health facility, an HR professional in a 25,000 employee government agency, a CFO of a multi-million dollar professional services firm, Chairman of the Board for a 17-million-dollar non-profit, Chairman of the Board for a multi-million dollar foundation,  Entrepreneur, Adjunct professor in Southern Methodist University's Edwin L. Cox Business Leadership Center's programming for Cox MBA students since 1991, earning 21 Teaching Excellence Awards, and inducted into the National Speakers Association Speaker Hall of Fame and is a recipient of their prestigious Cavett Award. No more new normal Randy feels that there is no more new normal. There is only a new next.  Change models For Randy, all change models go back to the psychologist, Kurt Lewin. He was considered the father of social psychology and developed one of the first models around change. He said that to make change happen, you must first unfreeze the thing you want to change. Then, make the change and refreeze it. To get to normal When following Lewin's model, one would assume that to get to normal, we have to re-freeze. What happens, however, if you never get to the point of refreezing? When things are changing all the time, there is never the opportunity to become completely normal. Frustration for businesses and organizations Part of the frustration that we have all been feeling in our businesses and organizations is that almost as soon as we get something changed, we need to change it again. Or, something else needs to get changed. A better mindset A better mindset for everyone today is to accept that we may never get back to normal. The closest thing we're going to get to normal is change happening faster than it's ever happened before. Threats In the strategic planning groups that Randy has been doing since COVID, he has noticed that everyone takes the threat piece way more seriously than before when they do the SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats) analysis. That means that people are now thinking more realistically about threats. Things that Randy Pennington has learned from COVID Something that Randy Pennington has learned from COVID is that we have to think about probabilities and possibilities a little differently, and we need to be ready to move quickly. Flourishing and surviving In the meetings industry, we are not pivoting. We are expanding and accelerating. The more we can anticipate, the better our chances for flourishing and surviving in the ever-changing world. Small business owners Small business owners need to ensure that they always have enough cash in reserve to sleep well at night.  Live meetings Randy is sure that in our industry, we will go back to live meetings. They will also have a hybrid or virtual component, however. Challenges for meetings and events The pandemic has changed everything about how we do what we do. Two questions that we need to ask regarding meetings and events are: “What if?” and “What next?”.  The purpose of meetings The purpose of meetings is to create connections, educate, and engage, and that never changes.  Randy Pennington's thoughts on preparing to survive and thrive Meeting and event planners need to cultivate new skills to survive and thrive. They need enough curiosity about new things to allow them to see the connections before they occur, according to Randy Pennington. The levels of change The first level of change is to adapt. The second level is to anticipate. Level three change is pursuing things that will be different and make a difference. Another level, which Randy looks at as Level 0, is about the changes we should ignore. Talent matters Talent matters, so organizations need to be sure that they provide a space where the best and brightest would want to work. More ideas In a world of uncertainty, we need more ideas, because we have to deal with experiences we have never had before right now. Forced collisions A way for business owners to get new ideas is to create forced collisions in the business. That means they have to put people together who might not normally go well together to work on a problem where more than one perspective is needed. Training the next generation Training for the next generation in the industry should focus on cultivating qualities like curiosity, collaboration, and cooperation. Also, effective communication, tapping into the things that make all of us the same and dealing with cross-cultural issues.  Earning your seat at the table Although the logistics of meetings are crucial, they are not the priority. You first need to earn your seat at the table. Learn to think like CEOs, CFOs, and VPs of Marketing think. Focus on what they focus on.  Connect with Eric On LinkedIn On Facebook On Instagram On Website Connect with Randy Pennington On Website Results Rule with Randy Pennington group on Facebook Books mentioned Outrageous Empowerment by Ron Lovett  (Catch Ron Lovett's interview with Eric HERE!) Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini

This week on The Good Practice Podcast, we're removing power dynamics and stripping away management layers with the return of our book club. Emerald Works CEO John Yates and Emerald Publishing CEO Vicky Williams join Ross G and Owen to discuss Humanocracy, by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini. We discuss: the challenge the book presents to bureaucracy a human-centred approach to organisation design the difficulty of putting humanocracy into practice. Show notes Humanocracy is available now from all good bookshops. For more from us, including access to our back catalogue of podcasts, visit emeraldworks.com. There, you'll also find details of our award winning performance support toolkit, our off-the-shelf e-learning, and our custom work. Vicky referenced the book How to Lead a Quest, by Jason Fox. Ross referenced episode 231 — Should we defund HR? You can find it online (emeraldworks.com/resources/podcast/231-should-we-defund-hr) or in your podcast feed. For more on the emergence of hierarchies at Wikipedia, see: Lerner, J., & Lomi, A. (2017). The third man: Hierarchy formation in Wikipedia. Applied network science, 2(1), 1-30. Connect with our speakers If you'd like to share your thoughts on this episode, connect with our speakers on Twitter: Ross Garner - @RossGarnerEW Owen Ferguson - @OwenFerguson Vicky Williams - @Emerald_VW John Yates - @JYLearn

There have been many discussions about the future of work. Will robots be able to do everything? For most of us, 2020 accelerated that future and creating a need for new mindsets and strategies. Jeff Schwartz believes we aren't going back to the way things were and we have the opportunity to set a new direction. Jeff is the co-author of Work Disrupted: Opportunity, Resilience, and Growth in the Accelerated Future of Work. Jeff shares with Kevin that to understand 21st-century careers, we need to be working with new maps. We have choices in what our future looks like, so how do we work with everything we have available (includes physical space and technology).   This episode is brought to you by… From Manager to Remarkable Leader, Kevin's Flagship workshop based on his proven leadership model. Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: Work Disrupted: Opportunity, Resilience, and Growth in the Accelerated Future of Work by Jeff Schwartz Post Corona: From Crisis to Opportunity by Scott Galloway Leonardo da Vinci by Walter Issacson Connect with Jeff Schwartz: Website | Twitter | LinkedIn Related Podcast Episodes: Leading Large-Scale Change with Bill Schaninger. Humanocracy with Gary Hamel. How to Navigate the Future with Margaret Heffernan. Subscribe to the Podcast Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to this podcast through the options below. iTunes Stitcher TuneIn Soundcloud RSS Or your favorite podcast app. Join Our Facebook Group Join our Facebook community to network with like-minded leaders, ask us questions, suggest guests and more. We welcome your wealth of experience and hope you will join us in sharing it with others on their leadership journey. You can join the group here: facebook.com/groups/RemarkableLeadershipPodcast/

There have been many discussions about the future of work. Will robots be able to do everything? For most of us, 2020 accelerated that future and creating a need for new mindsets and strategies. Jeff Schwartz believes we aren't going back to the way things were and we have the opportunity to set a new direction. Jeff is the co-author of Work Disrupted: Opportunity, Resilience, and Growth in the Accelerated Future of Work. Jeff shares with Kevin that to understand 21st-century careers, we need to be working with new maps. We have choices in what our future looks like, so how do we work with everything we have available (includes physical space and technology). This episode is brought to you by… From Manager to Remarkable Leader, Kevin's Flagship workshop based on his proven leadership model. Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: Work Disrupted: Opportunity, Resilience, and Growth in the Accelerated Future of Work by Jeff Schwartz Post Corona: From Crisis to Opportunity by Scott Galloway Leonardo da Vinci by Walter Issacson Connect with Jeff Schwartz: Website | Twitter | LinkedIn Related Podcast Episodes: Leading Large-Scale Change with Bill Schaninger. Humanocracy with Gary Hamel. How to Navigate the Future with Margaret Heffernan. Subscribe to the Podcast Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to this podcast through the options below. iTunes Stitcher TuneIn Soundcloud RSS Or your favorite podcast app. Join Our Facebook Group Join our Facebook community to network with like-minded leaders, ask us questions, suggest guests and more. We welcome your wealth of experience and hope you will join us in sharing it with others on their leadership journey. You can join the group here: facebook.com/groups/RemarkableLeadershipPodcast/

Why bureaucracy is the enemy of so much innovative, human-led creativity and what to do about it. Gary Hamel, co-author of the new book "Humanocracy" and I touch on his body of work in general, which has had a huge influence on me, but more recently his efforts to create a framework for real organizational change. This full #FridayFiresideChat is chock a block with insights from one of the most well known management thinkers and writers. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thoughtsparksritamcgrath/message

Today I talked with Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini about their book Humanocracy: Creating Organizations As Amazing As the People Inside Them (HBR, 2020). This episode attacks the way bureaucracies are “innovation-phobic” and “soul crushing.” How can motivation, productivity and innovation be radically enhanced? By dismantling traditional power structures within large companies, giving employees the opportunity to become “micropreneurs.” Tying compensation to contribution and enabling true empowerment are the ways to go. Gary Hamel is on the faculty of the London Business School and has been hailed by the Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker. Michele Zanini is, along with Hamel, the cofounder of the Management Lab. An alumnus of McKinsey & Company, Zanini has a degree from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Dan Hill, PhD, is the author of eight books and leads Sensory Logic, Inc. (https://www.sensorylogic.com). To check out his related “Dan Hill's EQ Spotlight” blog, visit https://emotionswizard.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today I talked with Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini about their book Humanocracy: Creating Organizations As Amazing As the People Inside Them (HBR, 2020). This episode attacks the way bureaucracies are “innovation-phobic” and “soul crushing.” How can motivation, productivity and innovation be radically enhanced? By dismantling traditional power structures within large companies, giving employees the opportunity to become “micropreneurs.” Tying compensation to contribution and enabling true empowerment are the ways to go. Gary Hamel is on the faculty of the London Business School and has been hailed by the Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker. Michele Zanini is, along with Hamel, the cofounder of the Management Lab. An alumnus of McKinsey & Company, Zanini has a degree from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Dan Hill, PhD, is the author of eight books and leads Sensory Logic, Inc. (https://www.sensorylogic.com). To check out his related “Dan Hill's EQ Spotlight” blog, visit https://emotionswizard.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

“We are wired to want simple” - Jen GreshamJennifer Gresham is the executive director of Work for Humanity, an organization that is making bold moves to fundamentally rethink the nature of employment and solve one of the biggest challenges the US economy faces today, rebuilding the middle class. If this sounds like a big, audacious goal, well it is. And you will hear why Jen is the perfect person to tackle it. Jen is a graduate of the Air Force Academy and a scientist with a background in human performance. In this episode we trace her career from her early days as assistant chief scientist in the Air Force to her bold decision to leave the Air Force just a few years short of retirement. We also explore her journey from successful blogger and business coach helping thousands of professionals achieve their career aspirations. Jen shares her ups and downs along the way and what finally led her to found Work for Humanity. In this episode you will learn about why we need to embrace complexity, risk taking and why you should bet on yourself. The future is female, let's get started!Have a question or comment? Email us at themanifista@gmail.com.Topics discussed in this episode:Embracing complexity and being comfortable not knowingWe often don't solve a complex problem, we evolve with a complex problem.There's untapped human potential, which is something I'm really interested in.We need the intellectual and emotional capacity for complexity, because we are so wired to want simple.The importance of being comfortable not knowing and having to experiment and find your way. Work for Humanity and envisioning a better future Income inequality is the highest it's ever been in 50 years.My vision for the future of work is that everyone has a job that enriches them financially, intellectually, emotionally, socially and spiritually.We need to upskill the workers and employers in small businesses, so they can start to work together as a strategic team.Our system is inhumane by design. We all need to really understand that we are part of that system, and therefore we are part of the problem. Resources Mentioned Jennifer Gresham (link)The report: Reimagining Inclusive Economies (link)Work for Humanity (link)Peter Diamandis (link)Winners Take All by Anand Giridharadas (link)Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini (link)

Innovation and creativity never go out of style. However, sometimes we find ourselves in institutionalized inertia. Our creative side is stifled because of the systems, structures, and processes in place. Scott Anthony says these are things that help today and make it hard to change for tomorrow. Scott is the co-author of Eat, Sleep, Innovate: How to Make Creativity an Everyday Habit in Your Organizations, and shares with Kevin that we need balance; we need a dual transformation. Innovation is something different that creates value, and no innovation story is a straight line. Leaders need to encourage and celebrate the challenges along the way. Further, the need to create an environment that is tolerable of new behavior and trust your team wants to do it and is capable of innovation. This episode is brought to you by… 13 Days to Remarkable Leadership, a free leadership video series based on Kevin's book, Remarkable Leadership. Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: Eat, Sleep, Innovate: How to Make Creativity an Everyday Habit Inside Your Organization by Scott D. Anthony, Paul Cobban, Natalie Painchaud, Andy Parker Calling Bullshit: The Art of Skepticism in a Data-Driven World by Carl T. Bergstrom, Jevin D. West by Charlotte Foltz Jones (Author), John O'Brien (Illustrator) Connect with Scott Anthony: Book Website | Learn more about Scott Anthony | LinkedIn | Twitter Related Podcast Episodes: The Creative Curve with Allen Gannett. The Innovation Stack with Jim McKelvey. Humanocracy with Gary Hamel. The Innovation Delusion with Lee Vinsel and Andy Russell. Subscribe to the Podcast Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to this podcast through the options below. iTunes Stitcher TuneIn Soundcloud RSS Or your favorite podcast app. Join Our Facebook Group Join our Facebook community to network with like-minded leaders, ask us questions, suggest guests and more. We welcome your wealth of experience and hope you will join us in sharing it with others on their leadership journey. You can join the group here: facebook.com/groups/RemarkableLeadershipPodcast/

We are in the 21st Century – The Digital Age. We know that by 2025 Millennials and GenZers will be 75% of the global workforce. However, many organizations are still operating using a 20th Century Industrial age leadership. Hierarchy, power, control, and fear are out of step with the complexities of our times and the workforce is demanding something different. To move into the 21st century, we need to transform the way we lead and manage our organizations. We need a personal connection. We need to be empathetic. When we can understand the circumstances our team is facing, we become more trustworthy and credible. Dr. Edward Marshall suggests this leads to success in the workplace. He is the author of Leadership's 4th Evolution: Collaboration for the 21st Century. Kevin and Dr. Marshall discuss this 4th evolution of leadership—Collaboration—for the 21st Century leadership—based on trust, ownership, and psychological safety to motivate the workforce. As the world continues to shift, leaders will need to reshape their workplace and redefine their business model. They need to engage their workforce to take a seat at the table and make contributions. This episode is brought to you by… From Manager to Remarkable Leader, Kevin's Flagship workshop based on his proven leadership model. Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: Leadership's 4th Evolution: Collaboration for the 21st Century by Dr. Edward Marshall Humble Leadership: The Power of Relationships, Openness and Trust by Edgar H. Schein and Peter Schein The Leadership Challenge by Jim Kouzes and Barry Posner Connect with Dr. Edward Marshall: Website | Twitter | LinkedIn Related Podcast Episodes: Learning Leadership with Jim Kouzes. A Future Lens on Leadership with Bob Johansen. The Power of Communities with Jono Bacon. The Self-Evolved Leader with Dave McKeown. Humanocracy with Gary Hamel. Subscribe to the Podcast Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to this podcast through the options below. iTunes Stitcher TuneIn Soundcloud RSS Or your favorite podcast app. Join Our Facebook Group Join our Facebook community to network with like-minded leaders, ask us questions, suggest guests and more. We welcome your wealth of experience and hope you will join us in sharing it with others on their leadership journey. You can join the group here: facebook.com/groups/RemarkableLeadershipPodcast/

In Episode 32, Michele Zanini, author of “Humanocracy,” joins us to discuss the evolution of management. We examine what makes traditional firms less resilient than their employees, why changing management is not only good for companies, but for the whole of society, and what this new paradigm looks like. We ask ourselves how we can build companies based on new principles, like markets, ownership, and paradox, to out-grow our bureaucracies already.The episode was recorded in English.The episode in a nutshell: Human's favorite quote from Humanocracy is “Bureaucracy is like pornography; it's hard to find anyone who'll defend it, but there's a lot of it about”, Mary-Jane enjoys a principle-based approach that goes on a structural level; and Michele thinks we need to stop copying what others do and experiment ourselves – revolutionary ideas and evolutionary change.Shownotes:Get the book and the course on Humanocracy here: https://www.humanocracy.com/Follow Michele on his blog for management insights: https://www.michelezanini.com/Beyond Theory Y (HBR, 1970): https://hbr.org/1970/05/beyond-theory-y

In this episode, Joel Fariss - a design research and strategic futures associate at Gensler (https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelfariss/) - and I discuss the nuances of the word “design” in light of 2020 and the future of work and innovation. Based on his experience at Gensler and in the nonprofit world, we dive into the connection between design and value for humanity, the need for time and space for humans to innovate, and the role of grief to create a more equitable work environment. Visit https://satchel.works/@wclittle/ventures-episode-21 for detailed notes and links to resources (videos, articles, etc…) mentioned. You can watch this episode via video here. In this episode we cover the following:   2:40 - Joel intro, design and his journey into Gensler. Design “as a mental model for perceiving the world”. 6:18 - How does Joel think about and define “Design” more broadly? In thinking about the trajectory of human civilization, check out The Ascent of Humanity by Charles Eisenstein.11:53 - Thoughts about design as a software engineer.19:30 - Why we do what we do. The importance of the heuristic of “how am I contributing to humanity”? In thinking about the trajectory of human civilization, check out The Ascent of Humanity by Charles Eisenstein.21:43 - Will as a grad student, thinking about time efficiency, practicality, contributions to society, and designing experiments.23:18 - Standing on the shoulder of giants. Where good ideas come from. The adjacent possible.  25:28 - Thoughts around the future of work and humanity in light of the pandemic. 36:48 - Where does humanity need to go? What needs to be introduced into the Future of Work conversation to benefit humanity? Some great reads regarding work: Brave New Work, Theory and Practice of Resistance to Work, Bullshit Jobs, Can't Even, Dying for a Paycheck, Humanocracy, and Reinventing Organizations. On data, value creation, and future economics check out Who Owns the Future, Radical Markets, Neo Feudalism, Debt, and The Post American World.43:04 - Doing what we can as society to give people more time, which can lead to adjacent possibilities. At the heart of innovation, what has Joel seen “not work” and what has he seen that is promising?49:06 - From a DE&I perspective, what has Joel seen in light of the pandemic and changing landscape of work and design? We talk about the role of grief as an important part of the work environment. To learn more about what grief is and why it is so important, read The Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller.55:01 - Where can people find more about Joel online? http://joelfariss.com // https://twitter.com/joelfariss // https://instagram.com/joel.fariss/

Michele Zanini author of "Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them" by The Best Business Minds

Weg met de bureaucratie is het betoog in het boek Humanocracy van Gary Hamel en Michele Zanini, maak ruimte voor zelfmanagement, maak mensen mede-eigenaar en splits je bedrijf op in kleine bedrijven.  Het lijkt logisch, bureaucratie daar willen we van af. Mensen die worden behandeld als productiemiddel. De enige weg omhoog is via management. Er is een duidelijke scheiding tussen management en de mensen die het werk doen. Bedrijven die steeds meer op een grote tanker gaan lijken en waardoor het koers veranderen van de koers traag gaat. De top van het bedrijf (het management) verdient veel geld op basis van positie en niet op basis van de bijdrage. De mensen die het werk doen hebben weinig zeggenschap en vindt het plezier vooral buiten werktijd. Door het financiële belang willen managers meer mensen aansturen en telkens naar een hoger niveau in het bedrijf. Als manager ben je veel bezig met het verdedigen van je eigen positie. De manier om meer geld en aanzien te verdienen is hogerop komen in het bedrijf. Waar werkt bureaucratie wel Er zijn volgens Hamel en Zanini veel redenen waarom een bureaucratie niet werkt. Bij zoveel motivatie waarom het niet werkt kwam de vraag in mij op, wat is er wel goed aan een bureaucratie? Tom legt in ons gesprek uit waar de bureaucratie vandaan komt en dat het wel degelijk een nut heeft in de publieke omgeving. Humanocracy is een interessant boek waarin je veel leert van voorbeelden uit de praktijk van bedrijven die het anders doen. Volgens Hamel en Zanini beter doen. Gemiste kans Het duurde even voordat ik duidelijk had wat ik miste in dit boek. Twee punten: Hamel en Zanini schrijven dat het humanocracy beter is voor de mens Als werknemer hebben we weinig plezier, vrijheid en invloed in een bureaucratie. Om te laten zien dat het anders kan schrijven ze uitgebreid over twee mooie voorbeelden Nucor en Haier. Om te laten zien dat het humanocracy model werkt wordt er gekeken vanuit het economische oogpunt, het gaat om het financiele resultaat, meer omzet, groeien, meer winst. De winstdeling wordt gebruikt om meer uit de mensen te halen. Terwijl we uit het boek Drive hebben geleerd dat geld nauwelijks een rol speelt in de motivatie van mensen en zelfs tegendraads kan werken. Telkens weer wordt benadrukt dat deze bedrijven het beter doen (financieel) dan de markt. Wat ik mis is laat zien hoeveel beter de mensen zich voelen in een bedrijf waar het om de mense draait waar zelfamangement is ingevoerd.In het laatste deel van het boek leggen Hamel en Zanini uit hoe je Humanocracy invoert. In de laatste twee hoofdstukken gaat het over hacking, van onderaf bureaucratie uitroeien. Terwijl bij de voorbeelden die in het boek worden genoemd hebben de ondernemer of een manager de handdoek opgepakt en het bedrijf helemaal anders ingericht, voor de innovatie, klant, medewerker. Daar is juiste de heldere visie en doorzettingskracht van een persoon die alles aan het rollen heeft gebracht. Niets van onderaf. Zelfs bij het voorbeeld van Michelin in het eerste hoofstuk in dit deel is er een manager die het in gang zet en wordt vrijgemaakt om de verandering door te voeren. Waarbij hij op zoek gaat naar mensen die open staan voor de verandering. De 7 principes van een humanocracy EigenaarschapMeritocratieMarktenCommunityOpenheidExperimenteren Paradox  In deze Boekencast aflevering bespreken we de principes meritocratie, community en paradox. Lees het boek voor meer uitleg over deze en de andere vier principes. Luister Beluister hier ons gesprek waarin het over het onstaan van bureaucratie, waarom jet het niet wilt in een bedrijf, de voorbeelden dat het anders kan en meer. In een ruim half uur delen wij dit boek met jou. Een half uur met kennis die je tot je neemt terwijl je wandelt, loopt of rijd bijvoorbeeld. Leerpunten  Een aantal belangrijke dingen die ik geleerd heb uit dit boek zijn: Wanneer je grote bureaucratische bedrijven opdeeld in vele kleine bedr...

Weg met de bureaucratie is het betoog in het boek Humanocracy van Gary Hamel en Michele Zanini, maak ruimte voor zelfmanagement, maak mensen mede-eigenaar en splits je bedrijf op in kleine bedrijven.  Het lijkt logisch, bureaucratie daar willen we van af. Mensen die worden behandeld als productiemiddel. De enige weg omhoog is via management. Er is een duidelijke scheiding tussen management en de mensen die het werk doen. Bedrijven die steeds meer op een grote tanker gaan lijken en waardoor het koers veranderen van de koers traag gaat. De top van het bedrijf (het management) verdient veel geld op basis van positie en niet op basis van de bijdrage. De mensen die het werk doen hebben weinig zeggenschap en vindt het plezier vooral buiten werktijd. Door het financiële belang willen managers meer mensen aansturen en telkens naar een hoger niveau in het bedrijf. Als manager ben je veel bezig met het verdedigen van je eigen positie. De manier om meer geld en aanzien te verdienen is hogerop komen in het bedrijf. Waar werkt bureaucratie wel Er zijn volgens Hamel en Zanini veel redenen waarom een bureaucratie niet werkt. Bij zoveel motivatie waarom het niet werkt kwam de vraag in mij op, wat is er wel goed aan een bureaucratie? Tom legt in ons gesprek uit waar de bureaucratie vandaan komt en dat het wel degelijk een nut heeft in de publieke omgeving. Humanocracy is een interessant boek waarin je veel leert van voorbeelden uit de praktijk van bedrijven die het anders doen. Volgens Hamel en Zanini beter doen. Gemiste kans Het duurde even voordat ik duidelijk had wat ik miste in dit boek. Twee punten: Hamel en Zanini schrijven dat het humanocracy beter is voor de mens Als werknemer hebben we weinig plezier, vrijheid en invloed in een bureaucratie. Om te laten zien dat het anders kan schrijven ze uitgebreid over twee mooie voorbeelden Nucor en Haier. Om te laten zien dat het humanocracy model werkt wordt er gekeken vanuit het economische oogpunt, het gaat om het financiele resultaat, meer omzet, groeien, meer winst. De winstdeling wordt gebruikt om meer uit de mensen te halen. Terwijl we uit het boek Drive hebben geleerd dat geld nauwelijks een rol speelt in de motivatie van mensen en zelfs tegendraads kan werken. Telkens weer wordt benadrukt dat deze bedrijven het beter doen (financieel) dan de markt. Wat ik mis is laat zien hoeveel beter de mensen zich voelen in een bedrijf waar het om de mense draait waar zelfamangement is ingevoerd.In het laatste deel van het boek leggen Hamel en Zanini uit hoe je Humanocracy invoert. In de laatste twee hoofdstukken gaat het over hacking, van onderaf bureaucratie uitroeien. Terwijl bij de voorbeelden die in het boek worden genoemd hebben de ondernemer of een manager de handdoek opgepakt en het bedrijf helemaal anders ingericht, voor de innovatie, klant, medewerker. Daar is juiste de heldere visie en doorzettingskracht van een persoon die alles aan het rollen heeft gebracht. Niets van onderaf. Zelfs bij het voorbeeld van Michelin in het eerste hoofstuk in dit deel is er een manager die het in gang zet en wordt vrijgemaakt om de verandering door te voeren. Waarbij hij op zoek gaat naar mensen die open staan voor de verandering. De 7 principes van een humanocracy EigenaarschapMeritocratieMarktenCommunityOpenheidExperimenteren Paradox  In deze Boekencast aflevering bespreken we de principes meritocratie, community en paradox. Lees het boek voor meer uitleg over deze en de andere vier principes. Luister Beluister hier ons gesprek waarin het over het onstaan van bureaucratie, waarom jet het niet wilt in een bedrijf, de voorbeelden dat het anders kan en meer. In een ruim half uur delen wij dit boek met jou. Een half uur met kennis die je tot je neemt terwijl je wandelt, loopt of rijd bijvoorbeeld. Leerpunten  Een aantal belangrijke dingen die ik geleerd heb uit dit boek zijn: Wanneer je grote bureaucratische bedrijven opdeeld in vele kleine bedr...

Ron and Ed are honored to be joined this week by one of the foremost management thinkers of our time, Professor Gary Hamel. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and his co-author, Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them.

Ron and Ed are honored to be joined this week by one of the foremost management thinkers of our time, Professor Gary Hamel. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and his co-author, Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them.

Ron and Ed are honored to be joined this week by one of the foremost management thinkers of our time, Professor Gary Hamel. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and his co-author, Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them.

Michele talks about whether most CEOs "get Humanocracy", the biggest pitfalls and where and how to start the journey. Michele Zanini is a cofounder of the Management Lab, where he helps large organizations become more adaptable, innovative and engaging places to work. Zanini is an alumnus of McKinsey & Company and the RAND Corporation, and holds degrees from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University and the Pardee RAND Graduate School. In this episode, 

Professor Gary Hamel shares his thoughts on innovation, scaling creativity and so much more. Gary Hamel is on the faculty of the London Business School and is a cofounder of the Management Lab, an organization that builds technology and tools to support breakthrough management innovation. He's hailed by the Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker. 

A confiança é um elemento essencial para qualquer equipe. Uma equipe que trabalha sem confiança, não é, de fato, uma equipe. É apenas um grupo de pessoas, dividindo um mesmo ambiente e muitas vezes fazendo progressos individuais e insuficientes. No episódio de hoje exploramos mais um assunto do livro Humanocracy do Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini. Mande a sua pergunta/dúvida por áudio ou escrito para o Whatsapp 31 996977104 ou no email osagilistas@dtidigital.com.br que responderemos no programa!

It's all about your journey, your journey of growth and development. When you find your passion and purpose, you will bring other people to the table for a shared vision. This will lead to success. Carter Phipps is coauthor of Conscious Leadership: Elevating Humanity Through Business with Steve McIntosh, and Whole Foods Market CEO John Mackey. Carter and Kevin discuss principles and mindsets for value-based leadership. He shares examples of what purpose first means and the importance of looking beyond a transaction to how it impacts the other stakeholders. Carter also shares thoughts on the need for both competition and collaboration to get the best answer. This episode is brought to you by… From Manager to Remarkable Leader, Kevin's Flagship workshop based on his proven leadership model. Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: Conscious Leadership: Elevating Humanity Through Business by John Mackey, Steve Mcintosh, Carter Phipps Stakeholder Theory: Concepts and Strategies (Elements in Organization Theory) by R. Edward Freeman The Price of Tomorrow: Why Deflation is the Key to an Abundant Future by Jeff Booth Connect with Carter Phipps: Website | Cultural Evolution | Conscious Capitalism Related Podcast Episodes: Leadership From the Inside Out with Kevin Cashman. Being the Leader You Want to Be with Amy Jen Su. Humanocracy with Gary Hamel. Subscribe to the Podcast Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to this podcast through the options below. iTunes Stitcher TuneIn Soundcloud RSS Or your favorite podcast app. Join Our Facebook Group Join our Facebook community to network with like-minded leaders, ask us questions, suggest guests and more. We welcome your wealth of experience and hope you will join us in sharing it with others on their leadership journey. You can join the group here: facebook.com/groups/RemarkableLeadershipPodcast/

No episódio de hoje continuamos a explorar o livro Humanocracy do Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini. Abordamos um dos capítulos do livro que é sobre o poder dos paradoxos. Mande a sua pergunta/dúvida por áudio ou escrito para o Whatsapp 31 996977104 ou no email osagilistas@dtidigital.com.br que responderemos no programa!

Gary Hamel is an author of numerous books, including just released Humanocracy, as well as visiting professor at London Business School. Check out the full show notes at TheAgileWire.com YouTube: https://youtu.be/VByB6mNZIUA Twitter: @AgileWire

How does your team show up for work? How do you show up? Gary Hamel believes people leave their gifts of creativity and daring at home because it is not encouraged. He joins Kevin to discuss why he thinks organizations have been incapacitated by their lack of humanity. Gary is the author of The Future of Management (2007) and his latest book, with Michele Zanini, Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them. He shares data about the increase in bureaucracy in organizations and the decline of productivity growth. In short, the old model is not working and organizations need to think about the human element. Further, people at all levels can make change where they are and building community is a good place to start. This episode is brought to you by… Virtual LeaderCon, a virtual leadership conference coming September 14th-18th. Learn more at https://remarkablepodcast.com/VLC  Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: The Splendid and the Vile: A Saga of Churchill, Family, and Defiance During the Blitz by Eric Lawson Mind & Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False by Thomas Nagel The Experience of God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss by David Bentley Hart Connect with Gary Hamel: Website | Book Website | Twitter | LinkedIn Related Podcast Episodes: The Excellence Dividend with Tom Peters. Brave New Work with Aaron Dignan. Leading Large-Scale Change with Bill Schaninger. The Future Leader with Jacob Morgan. Subscribe to the Podcast Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to this podcast through the options below. iTunes Stitcher TuneIn Soundcloud RSS Or your favorite podcast app.

Gary Hamel is an author of numerous books, including just released Humanocracy, as well as visiting professor at London Business School. Check out the full show notes at TheAgileWire.com YouTube: https://youtu.be/j_QvDDrwOP8 Twitter: @AgileWire

Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini's forthcoming book, Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, highlights bureaucracy's social, economic and strategic shortcomings and proposes 'humanocracy' as an alternative management model. In this discussion with Martin Reeves, Chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute, Gary Hamel discusses why companies need to tackle bureaucracy's shortcomings and shares examples of vanguard firms which have managed to make steps towards realizing the principles of humanocracy. *** About the BCG Henderson Institute The BCG Henderson Institute is the Boston Consulting Group's think tank, dedicated to exploring and developing valuable new insights from business, technology, economics, and science by embracing the powerful technology of ideas. The Institute engages leaders in provocative discussion and experimentation to expand the boundaries of business theory and practice and to translate innovative ideas from within and beyond business. For more ideas and inspiration, sign up to receive BHI INSIGHTS, our monthly newsletter, and follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter: @BCGHenderson