Podcast appearances and mentions of michele zanini

I was given advice from a colleague a few years ago as I left an organization as an employee to venture out on my own - yet again - as a coach, consultant, facilitator. He told me, "Whatever you do, don't talk about culture." I took his advice seriously at the time. But the more I've been back at my own business full time, the more crucial I feel this concept of company culture really is. Culture is the container that holds all of the organization's activities. It's not what you do, it's how you do it that reflects the culture for the people doing the work. Today I mention several books: "The Power of Company Culture" by Chris Dyer, "Holacracy" by Brian Robertson, "Human-Centered Communication" by Ethan Beute and Stephen Pacinelli, and "Humanocracy," by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini.

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Malindi Elmore is a Canadian runner and three-time Olympian. She raced the 1500 in Athens 2004, and the Marathon in Tokyo 2021 and Paris 2024, finishing in the top-ten (ninth) in Tokyo. In between her middle-distance and marathon careers, she also raced as a professional triathlete from 2015 to 2017, including six podiums in IM70.3 and Ironman races. We discuss her marathon training, how she manages to perform and continue to improve into her 40s and as a mother, her short but successful professional triathlon career, and more.  HIGHLIGHTS AND KEY TOPICS: Transitioning to the marathon as a natural middle-distance specialistA detailed look into Malindi's typical marathon buildDouble-threshold workouts and race-specific long runsRace tactics and pacingPerforming at the highest level and continuing to improve well into her 40sBalancing training and life as a professional athlete with being a mother of twoHow Malindi got into triathlon, and found very quick successInsights into Malindi's triathlon training Tips for amateur runners and for amateur triathletes to improve their running DETAILED EPISODE SHOWNOTES: We have detailed shownotes for all of our episodes. The shownotes are basically the podcast episode in written form, that you can read in 5-10 minutes. They are not transcriptions, but they are also not just surface-level overviews. They provide detailed insights and timestamps for each episode, and are great especially for later review, after you've already listened to an episode. Naturally, as great as they are, they do not cover absolutely everything in as great detail as we can do in a 45-90 minute podcast episode.  The shownotes for today's episode can be found at www.scientifictriathlon.com/tts456/ LINKS AND RESOURCES: Malindi's website and InstagramDaniels' Running Formula - book by Jack DanielsIn Pursuit of Excellence - book by Terry Orlick WHAT SHOULD I LISTEN TO NEXT?If you enjoyed this episode, I think you'll love the following episodes: Coach Melanie McQuaid | EP#374 and Melanie McQuaid | EP#430 - fellow Canadian athlete who Malindi raced in her triathlon careerNutrition for endurance and ultra-endurance athletes with Trent Stellingwerff, PhD | EP#265 - Trent is a sports scientist with a focus on sports nutrition. He has worked with Malindi in the lead-up to the Tokyo Olympics. David Roche – The training and racing strategy behind his epic Leadville 100 course record | EP#444 - If you're interested in the art and the science of going even longer than the marathon, this one is for you!Michele Zanini (part 2) | EP#394 - Michele has worked with legendary running coach Renato Canova, and gives a detailed description of Canova's principles, as well as Michele's own adaptations of themRun training talk with Jon Green | EP#315 - Jon Green coached Molly Seidel, Olympic Bronze medalist from the marathon in TokyoYou can find our full episode archives here, where you can filter for categories such as Training, Racing, Science & Physiology, Swimming, Cycling, Running etc.You can also find separate archives for specific series of episodes I've done, specifically Q&A episodes, TTS Thursday episodes, and Beginner Tips episodes.  LEARN MORE ABOUT SCIENTIFIC TRIATHLON: The Scientific Triathlon website is the home of That Triathlon Show and everything else that we doContact us through our contact form or email me directly (note - email/contact form messages get responded to much more quickly than Instagram DMs)Subscribe to our NewsletterFollow us on InstagramLearn more about our coaching, training plans, and training camps. We have something to offer for everybody from beginners to professionals.  HOW CAN I SUPPORT THAT TRIATHLON SHOW (FOR FREE)? I really appreciate you reading this and considering helping the show! If you love the show and want to support it to help ensure it sticks around, there are a few very simple things you can do, at no cost other than a minute of your time. Subscribe to the podcast in your podcast app to automatically get all new episodes as they are released.Tell your friends, internet and social media friends, acquaintances and triathlon frenemies about the podcast. Word of mouth is the best way to grow the podcast by far! Rate and review the podcast (ideally five stars of course!) in your podcast app of choice (Spotify and Apple Podcasts are the biggest and most important ones).Share episodes online and on social media. Share your favourite episodes in your Instagram stories, start a discussion about interesting episodes on forums, reference them in your blog or Substack.  SPONSORS: Precision Fuel & Hydration help athletes personalise their hydration and fueling strategies for training and racing. Use the free Fuel & Hydration Planner to get personalised plan for your carbohydrate, sodium and fluid intake in your next event. That Triathlon Show listeners get 15% off their first order of fuel and electrolyte products. Simply use this link and the discount will be auto-applied at the checkout.

In this episode, we talk to Mikkel Zanini about humanocracy. Mikkel emphasizes the limitations of traditional bureaucratic organizations and explains the concept of humanocracy, which focuses on maximizing human potential rather than efficiency and control. We explore the principles of ownership, meritocracy, internal markets, experimentation, community, openness and balance that underpin humanocracy. And we discuss examples of successful applications at Haier and Roche that show how these principles can foster innovation, engagement, profitability, and growth.

“How do we get organizations where everyone has the opportunity and the support to contribute to their fullest?” For Michele Zanini, the co-author of “Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them” with Gary Hamel, the answer lies in rethinking the way companies operate.    In this episode, Michele explains how organizations can move beyond rigid bureaucratic systems to create environments that thrive on creativity, resilience, and accountability. He points out the power of a clear, shared purpose to align teams and the importance of nurturing small, autonomous groups that stay agile and entrepreneurial as companies grow. Michele also redefines leadership as a tool to multiply individual potential rather than manage from above, and challenges outdated performance systems by advocating for peer-driven accountability.    Join Alex Raymond and Michele Zanini as they explore how leaders can rethink traditional approaches to organizational design and create workplaces that genuinely empower their people.   Quotes “The idea of humanocracy is really about how to create organizations that are as capable as the people inside them, that are as daring, as courageous as people can be when they're at their best. They're as resilient, they're able to bounce back from a crisis as we often are in our personal lives. As creative as millions of people who are on YouTube, sharing content that sometimes gets millions of people to engage with it. And are as passionate as we can be.” (02:54 | Michele Zanini) “People will still be part of organizations, but what if, instead of organizations viewing people as tools, we saw the organization as the instrument to better our lives and the lives of those we serve? The organization becomes the platform for impact.” (05:37 | Michele Zanini) “The other thing that a mission really does is that it provides a lot of motivation and alignment. So in a way, the mission is your boss. If everybody's united by a particular purpose that is shared, you don't need a lot of supervision.” (15:43 | Michele Zanini) “How do I give everyone in the team or the organization maximum autonomy and maximum accountability? And then how do I enable that? How do I create an organizational environment where that is encouraged and flourishes? You can specify some of that by wiring the organization in a particular way, but there are also things you need to do. For instance, how do you give everyone the competence to make the right decision for the business?” (47:39 | Michele Zanini)   Links Connect with Michele Zanini: Website: https://www.michelezanini.com/ Humanocracy: https://www.humanocracy.com/course/BMI   Connect with Alex Raymond: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afraymond/ Website: https://consciousentrepreneur.us/ HiveCast.fm is a proud sponsor of The Conscious Entrepreneur Podcast. Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Our 369th episode features Michele Zanini, co-author of the book Humanocracy. In this conversation, we explore:Growing Up in Venice and Embracing Italian CultureThe Future of Work: What's Next?Haier's Revolutionary Work ModelKey Elements of Humanocracy-Driven CompaniesInnovative Organizational ModelsWhy Aren't Organizations Advancing Faster?The Crucial Role of Middle Managers: Focus or Forget?Acá puedes conocer más sobre Hackers del Talento y Ricardo PinedaSuscríbete a nuestro newsletter Cartas al Talento donde reflexionamos sobre Talento Humano, el futuro del trabajo y la humanización

Nos lo han dicho hasta la saciedad: “si corres, debes trabajar la fuerza”. Ese trabajo, nos lo han dicho también por activa y por pasiva, sirve (1) para prevenir lesiones, (2) para mejorar economía de carrera y (3), tanto por poder entrenar más consistentemente, gracias a estar libres de lesión, como porque la fatiga llega más tarde, gracias a esa mayor economía de carrera, el trabajo de fuerza nos da también un mejor rendimiento. Con esos argumentos, la verdad es que es difícil no quedar convencidos de lo bueno que es el susodicho trabajo de fuerza y de que nos conviene incorporarlo de una santa vez. Bien, ya lo tenemos claro, estamos determinados, vamos a empezar a trabajar la fuerza. Por fin, nos vamos a meter en el gym, o montarnos uno sencillito en casa, y vamos a empezar a mover hierros. Entonces… surge la gran pregunta: ¿por dónde demonios empezar? O, mejor dicho, surge una tonelada de preguntas, como ¿cuándo entrenar?, ¿los días que salgo a correr o en días separados? Y, si es en el mismo día, ¿las pesas antes o después de correr? ¿Cuántos días a la semana? Y, cuando estoy ya frente a los hierros, ¿qué ejercicios hacer? ¿Pesos libres o máquinas? ¿Cuánto peso mover?, ¿cuántas repeticiones?, ¿cuántas series?, ¿cuánto tiempo de descanso? Si has considerado hacer trabajo de fuerza, estoy seguro de que has enfrentado estas dudas. Y, lo peor, has acudido a una docena de podcasts, hablando sobre el tema, y (perdón a los otros compañeros y compañeras podcasters, a quienes sigo y aprecio) ¡ninguno de esos episodios te ha resuelto estas dudas tan fundamentales y tan concretas! Todo son generalidades… Me he tenido que poner manos a la obra, a bucear en otras fuentes, para obtener información clara y contrastada al respecto (aparte de cierta experimentación en primera persona, por supuesto). Tras ese proceso de documentación, por un lado, y de experimentación en casa con un puñado de barras y discos, por el otro, he obtenido información -creo- suficiente para resolver tres cuestiones principales. Primera cuestión: ¿por qué entrenar la fuerza? Para contestar, nos apoyaremos en la revisión de estudios de 2016 “Effects of Strength Training on Running Economy”, la revisión de estudios de 2018 “Effects of Strength Training on the Physiological Determinants of Middle- and Long-Distance Running”, otra más de 2018 titulada “Strength training as superior, dose-dependent and safe prevention of acute and overuse sports injuries” y el estudio de 2017 “Heavy strength training improves running and cycling performance”. Segunda cuestión: ¿cuándo entrenar la fuerza? Para contestarla, nos apoyaremos en la revisión de estudios de 2021 “No Time to Lift? Designing Time‑Efficient Training Programs for Strength and Hypertrophy”. Tercera y más interesante cuestión: ¿cómo exactamente trabajar la fuerza? Para contestarla, además de a todas las publicaciones científicas ya citadas, acudiremos al trabajo de Michele Zanini, preparador físico de la federación italiana de triatlón; trabajo que expuso en el muy recomendable podcast “That Triathlon Show”, del coach Mikael Eriksson. Hechas las menciones de rigor, sin más dilación, vamos al turrón. --- Sígueme en https://www.instagram.com/correrporsenderos/ donde publico píldoras sobre trail running a diario en Stories . Lee el guion de los episodios en: https://correrporsenderospodcast.blogspot.com/

Donatella Solda"Learning More Festival"www.learningmorefestival.itIl primo festival italiano dedicatoalla formazione e all'apprendimento Modena | da venerdì 10 a domenica 12 novembreoltre 70 incontri, più di 120 ospiti, 7 location Torna a Modena, per la sua seconda edizione, il Learning More Festival, da venerdì 10 a domenica 12 novembre, il primo festival in Italia dedicato alla formazione e all'apprendimento. Tre giorni per mettersi in discussione con gli oltre 120 esperti del settore.Il Learning More Festival nasce come un luogo in cui educatori, formatori, imprenditori e professionisti, e anche genitori, studenti e cittadini di tutta Italia, possano informarsi e scoprire metodologie emergenti, modelli di successo e tecnologie per formare e apprendere, che rispondano ai bisogni della contemporaneità.Ci saranno alcuni dei massimi esperti del settore, italiani e internazionali, che terranno più di 70 incontri, tra cui lezioni, workshop, talks di approfondimento e learning shows. Per le famiglie e le scuole, si terranno anche dei laboratori innovativi, contest e incontri di orientamento. Le location della rassegna saranno diffuse nella città: gli spazi di Future Education Modena e AGO - Modena Fabbriche Culturali, alla Chiesa della Fondazione Collegio San Carlo, alla Fondazione di Modena | Spazio F, al Polo dei Musei e presso l'ex Cinema Arena. Il festival è organizzato da FEM - Future Education Modena, hub innovativo dell'EdTech, operato da Wonderful Education, realtà che opera nello sviluppo, nella produzione e nell'offerta di attività ed esperienze formative innovative, e da Fondazione di Modena. Il programma è ricco e si sviluppa attorno a sei palinsesti tematici. Neuroscienze e apprendimento. La mente che impara. Gli esperti di questo palinsesto si chiederanno come funziona il cervello, come impara, e come sviluppare tecniche efficaci di apprendimento. Tra i tanti ospiti stranieri: Bradley Busch, celebre psicologo di Oxford, autore di vari bestseller sull'apprendimento, e Tracy Packiam Holloway, autrice del caso editoriale Think Like a Girl (Zondervan). Ci saranno anche: Leonardo Fogassi, docente all'Università di Parma, membro del team che ha scoperto i neuroni specchio; Isabel Gangitano, autrice del podcast “Le Basi”; Stefano Calabrese, docente all'Unimore, esperto nel nesso tra racconto e neuroscienza, e molti altri. Augmented Learning. Accrescere e potenziare l'apprendimento. Quali sono i metodi innovativi per imparare in maniera efficace? Ne parleremo con: Annamaria Testa, autrice e saggista, a proposito del potere delle storie; Andrea De Cesco, responsabile della Chora Media Academy insieme a Nicola Bigi di Tiwi, e Rossella Pivanti, Branded Podcast Producer, che approfondiranno l'utilità dei podcast; Luca Raina parlerà di didattica ludica basata sul gaming, argomento approfondito anche da Francesca Antonacci, dell'Università Bicocca di Milano. Si parlerà anche di nuovi modi per insegnare la matematica con Laura Branchetti, docente all'Università di Milano, e Giorgio Bolondi, professore all'Università di Bolzano. Imparare e lavorare con l'Intelligenza Artificiale (IA). Sulle opportunità e le sfide offerte dalla IA nel campo della formazione parleranno: Guido Scorza, componente del Collegio del Garante per la Privacy; Giovanni Corazza del Marconi Institute for Creativity, che approfondirà il nesso tra IA e immaginazione; Luca Bolognini, Presidente dell'Istituto Italiano di Privacy, parlerà dei provvedimenti europei su IA e innovazione. Insieme a loro, molti altri workshop dedicati a uno dei temi più dibattuti del contemporaneo. Le competenze del XXI Secolo e il futuro del lavoro. Sulle competenze necessarie per il futuro del lavoro si esprimeranno numerosi esperti del settore, tra cui: Roberto Ricci, Presidente di INVALSI; Cristina Grieco, Presidentessa di INDIRE; Michele Faioli, docente all'Università Cattolica di Milano, già consigliere CNEL, approfondirà il rapporto tra lavoro, persone e tecnologie. Si parlerà anche di prime sperimentazioni di competenze innovative, per esempio con Giorgio Ventre e Antonio Pescapè, docenti di Ingegneria elettrica e tecnologie all'Università Federico II di Napoli. Non potrà mancare un affondo sulla sostenibilità, con Antonello Pasini, meteorologo e autore. Mentre con Luca Sofri, direttore de Il Post, si parlerà di Come funzionano i giornali, come funziona l'informazione? per scoprire come ci informeremo in futuro.Organizzazioni che imparano, la società che cresce. Come creare organizzazioni e imprese che tengano conto e sappiano navigare nella complessità? Sull'importanza dell'investimento sul capitale umano interverranno: Lisa Kepinski dell'Inclusion Institute, che parlerà di valorizzazione del talento in azienda; Alberto Gangemi e Priel Korenfeld di Kopernicana, realtà che lavora per aiutare le imprese a cambiare. Molti altri esperti del settore, inoltre, parleranno di come facilitare il cambiamento in impresa: Michele Zanini, Marta Cabiati, Betty Pagnin, Riccardo Bovetti, Gilda Antonelli e Jacopo Roguzzi. EdTech: strumenti per l'innovazione. L'apprendimento è in evoluzione grazie alle tecnologie. Di questo si parlerà in un palinsesto tutto dedicato all'EdTech, ossia all'Education Technology, organizzato in collaborazione con EdTech Italia, l'Associazione italiana dell'ecosistema. LMF ospita le finali italiane del GESA, ossia i Global EdTech Startup Awards, per premiare la startup italiana più innovativa che volerà poi alle finali globali di Londra nel gennaio 2024. Saranno moltissimi gli esperti, inoltre, che parleranno del tema: dal Nord Europa arriveranno Jannie Jeppesen, CEO della Swedish EdTech Industry, insieme a Natalia Kucirkova, docente all'Università di Stavanger (Norvegia); Anna Åkerfeldt, di Swedish Edtest; Marjo Kenttälä, CEO di Helsinki Education Hub; Oddur Sturluson, Innovation Hub, University of Iceland, e Esben Trier, CEO of Edtech Denmark.Palinsesti speciali. Oltre al programma principale, il festival ospita numerosi eventi su temi specializzati. Fra queste, il Family Lab, che affronta la genitorialità ai tempi del digitale, insieme a Silvia Demozzi, docente di Pedagogia e Sessuologia all'Università di Bologna e Michele Marangi, dell'Università Cattolica di Milano. LMF arriva poi nelle scuole, portando gli speaker davanti a studenti e studentesse, in un format-gioco di orientamento.IL POSTO DELLE PAROLEascoltare fa pensarewww.ilpostodelleparole.itQuesto show fa parte del network Spreaker Prime. Se sei interessato a fare pubblicità in questo podcast, contattaci su https://www.spreaker.com/show/1487855/advertisement

Spooky season is here, so it seems fitting to share a horror story. Because there's a monster draining time and energy from most of our organizations. This sneaky shapeshifter can take any form, show up at any time, and is one of the more destructive, chaotic forces we're forced to deal with at work. We're talking about the monster that is org debt—and HR has been trapped in a maze with it for decades. Worse still, the maze's towering walls and serpentine corridors come from outdated policies and processes HR largely built themselves. And it's historically been impossible for many leaders to find the time to clean up org debt—or even know where to look for it. In this miniseries, Brave New Work's Rodney Evans is joined by friend-of-the-pod and Ready OG Sam Spurlin to dive into how HR can become more resilient, efficient, and equitable. Today on episode 10, they help you learn how to identify org debt, shine a light on its hiding places, measure what it's really costing us, and start eliminating it from your organization for good. Mentioned references: The Ready's video about Org Debt Marie Kondo Murmur Meg's episode about centralization/decentralization: FoHR Miniseries Ep. 3 Zapier "MBT" (Mission-based Team) "MVP" (Minimum Viable Product) Ali Randel, partner at The Ready Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini, authors of Humanocracy, where the org debt annual cost is attributed -------------- Learn more about The Future of HR at our website. Curious where your company sits on our 5-stage maturity model? Take our assessment and find out! Have a burning HR question for Rodney and Sam to answer? Email us at fohr@theready.com. Ready to get started moving your HR department into the future? Email us at fohr@theready.com or hello@theready.com. --------------- 00:00 Intro + Check-In: Do you remember the first CD you ever bought, and if so, what was it? 03:20 Intro to org debt 06:41 Why companies struggle getting rid of it 13:36 Clear examples of org debt in HR 20:10 Why org debt is such an issue now 25:51 Stopping the cycle of org debt and creating capacity 33:05 Nipping new org debt in the bud 35:14 Psychological behaviors behind types of org debt 41:43 Financial costs of org debt 42:45 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share this episode with your HR friends!

Promising to transform your understanding and approach towards physical activity in primary care, The Movement Prescription podcast is a treasure trove of insights. Lifestyle and Physical Activity Champions, Dr Hussain Al-Zubaidi, Dr Callum Leese and Dr Suzy Scarlett, are here to paint a picture that moves away from rigorous exercises and lays focus on the importance of re-introducing movement into our daily lives. We have a line-up of exceptional guests offering their unique expertise. Listen to Russell Kane, the renowned comedian, and an advocate for lifestyle medicine, and Michele Zanini from the Italian Olympic triathlon team, share their insights on how physical activity can revolutionize health. Learn from Dr Emma Lunan and Dr Charlotte Marriott as they delve into managing long-term conditions and mental health with physical activity. We'll also explore the concept of green prescribing and the art of motivational interviewing with Dr Hamish Reid. So, tune in, subscribe for updates and join the conversation with the hashtag #activepractice on social media. Let's embark on a journey where small changes will lead to big things.Produced using funding from NHS Tayside Educational Fund and the British Society of Lifestyle Medicine.Find us at https://themovementprescription.co.uk/

Acompáñame a navegar este short para hablar sobre Humanocracy, un libro escrito por Gary Hamel y Michele Zanini publicado en el 2020. Humanocracy plantea un desafío para organizaciones tradicionales que buscan transformarse y propone a través de principios fundamentales que todos los empleados, independientemente de su posición jerárquica, contribuyan plenamente al éxito del negocio.La propuesta de Humanocracy plantea lograr organizaciones planas, ágiles, libres y que no promuevan el miedo y los mecanismos que propone para lograrlo son:1.- Motivación2.- Nueva mentalidad3.- Nuevo Modelo4.- Migración5.- MovilizaciónNavega con nosotros este set de olas cortas y descubre cómo lograr un negocio cool.Suscríbete a nuestro canal en Spotify.Sigue negocioscool en Instagram.Conecta con nosotros a través de LinkedIn.

Mikael answers listener questions on the topics of racing and testing.            IN THIS EPISODE YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT: -Bike position and breathing issues on the run leg of a triathlon -The biggest gains one can make during race week -When is it better to race by feel (without data) and vice versa -Recommended tests for different types of road cycling events -Testing protocol for comparing running shoes without a lab -Is Fatmax testing useful?  -Doing road races (running) to get more "test" data -Swim testing for 70.3 and Ironman -How and why to test your Maximum Aerobic Power (MAP)     SHOWNOTES: https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts399/   SCIENTIFIC TRIATHLON AND THAT TRIATHLON SHOW WEBPAGE: www.scientifictriathlon.com/podcast/   SPONSORS: FORM Smart Swim Goggles give you unprecedented real-time feedback in your swim training through a display on the goggle lens. See every split to stay on pace, track your stroke rate and don't let it drop, use heart rate to become more scientific and precise with your training (through integration with Polar HR monitors) and analyse more in-depth metrics post-swim in the app. You can also use a vast library of workouts or training plans, or build your own guided workouts. Get 15% off the goggles with the code TTS15 on formswim.com/tts.    ZEN8 - The ZEN8 Indoor Swim Trainer is a unique Dryland Swim Trainer that allows you to improve technique, power, and swim training consistency. With the trainer you can do specific power and technique work, including working on your catch and core activation, and it helps you stay consistent even if you don't have much time to train. You can try the Zen8 risk-free for up to 30 days, and you can get 20% off your first order on zen8swimtrainer.com/tts.   LINKS AND RESOURCES: Effect of Respiratory Muscle Training on Exercise Performance in Healthy Individuals A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis - Illi et al. 2012 Limited Benefit of Fatmax-Test to Derive Training Prescriptions - Schwindling et al. 2013 Incremental exercise test design and analysis: implications for performance diagnostics in endurance athletes - Bentley et al. 2007 Peak power output predicts maximal oxygen uptake and performance time - Hawley & Noakes 1992 Carbohydrates – science and practice with Tim Podlogar, PhD | EP#354 Michele Zanini (part 1) | EP#393 What types of intervals are most effective? A scientific analysis with Michael Rosenblat | EP#243 Q&A on run training (part 2) | EP#388 Q&A on run training (part 1) | EP#385 Q&A on bike training | EP#381 Q&A on swim training | EP#377 Q&A on season planning, goal setting, and personal limiters | EP#372 Q&A episode archive   RATE AND REVIEW: If you enjoy the show, please help me out by subscribing, rating and reviewing: www.scientifictriathlon.com/rate/   CONTACT: Want to send feedback, questions or just chat? Email me at mikael@scientifictriathlon.com or connect on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter.

Michele Zanini is a PhD candidate at the University of Loughborough studying the connection between running economy, durability, and strength training). He is also a physiologist and strength and conditioning coach with the Italian Triathlon Federation, and he has been working alongside the legendary running coach Renato Canova. This is part two of a two-part interview, part 1 was published last week in EP#393.           IN THIS EPISODE YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT: -The science of strength training and endurance performance -How to implement this type of strength training in practice -The difference between the strength training described in the scientific literature and what some leading experts are proposing -Working with Renato Canova (one of the greatest running coaches of all time)  -Canova's training principles and how amateur runners can apply them   SHOWNOTES: https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts394/   SCIENTIFIC TRIATHLON AND THAT TRIATHLON SHOW WEBPAGE: www.scientifictriathlon.com/podcast/   SPONSORS: Precision Fuel & Hydration help athletes perform at their best through their online tools, patented Sweat Test and range of electrolytes and fueling products. Use the free Fuel & Hydration Planner and receive a personalised plan for your carbohydrate, sodium and fluid intake. If you want further help, book a free 20-minute video consultation to chat through your plan. Listen out for the code in today's show to get 15% off your first order of PF&H electrolytes and fueling products. If you missed the code, just email hello@pfandh.com.   ZEN8 - The ZEN8 Indoor Swim Trainer is a unique Dryland Swim Trainer that allows you to improve technique, power, and swim training consistency. With the trainer you can do specific power and technique work, including working on your catch and core activation, and it helps you stay consistent even if you don't have much time to train. You can try the Zen8 risk-free for up to 30 days, and you can get 20% off your first order on zen8swimtrainer.com/tts.   LINKS AND RESOURCES: Michele's Twitter profile Strength training for endurance performance with Richard Blagrove, PhD | EP#292 Bent Rønnestad, PhD | EP#386 Matt Pendola | EP#387 Strength coach Erin Carson | EP#367 Peak Performance – The Science of Success with Brad Stulberg | EP#28 Nitrate loading, marathons, and endurance sports science with prof. Andy Jones | EP#187 Peak Performance: Elevate Your Game, Avoid Burnout, and Thrive with the New Science of Success - book by Brad Stulberg and Steve Magness El método Renato Canova. Claves del entrenamiento de maratón - Youtube video Strength training improves 5-min all-out performance following 185min of cycling - Rønnestad et al. 2009 Strength training improves performance and pedaling characteristics in elite cyclists - Rønnestad et al. 2014 Strength training improves cycling performance, fractional utilization of VO2max and cycling economy in female cyclists - Vikmoen et al. 2015 Strength training improves double-poling performance after prolonged submaximal exercise in cross-country skiers - Øfsteng et al. 2017 Heavy strength training improves running and cycling performance following prolonged submaximal work in well-trained female athletes - Vikmoen et al. 2017 Cardiorespiratory adaptations and performance improvement in response to high-intensity interval training in distance runners: physiological vs race pace approach - Mazzolari et al. 2022   RATE AND REVIEW: If you enjoy the show, please help me out by subscribing, rating and reviewing: www.scientifictriathlon.com/rate/   CONTACT: Want to send feedback, questions or just chat? Email me at mikael@scientifictriathlon.com or connect on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter.

Michele Zanini is a PhD candidate at the University of Loughborough studying the connection between running economy, durability, and strength training). He is also a physiologist and strength and conditioning coach with the Italian Triathlon Federation, and he has been working alongside the legendary running coach Renato Canova. This is part one of a two-part interview.           IN THIS EPISODE YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT: -Michele's role within the Italian triathlon federation -How physiologists support athletes and coaches in a high-performance environment -Testing protocols and how to make test results actionable -Running economy, its determinants, and how it can be improved -Durability, its determinants, and how it can be improved   SHOWNOTES: https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts393/   SCIENTIFIC TRIATHLON AND THAT TRIATHLON SHOW WEBPAGE: www.scientifictriathlon.com/podcast/   SPONSORS: FORM Smart Swim Goggles give you unprecedented real-time feedback in your swim training through a display on the goggle lens. See every split to stay on pace, track your stroke rate and don't let it drop, use heart rate to become more scientific and precise with your training (through integration with Polar HR monitors) and analyse more in-depth metrics post-swim in the app. You can also use a vast library of workouts or training plans, or build your own guided workouts. Get 15% off the goggles with the code TTS15 on formswim.com/tts.    ZEN8 - The ZEN8 Indoor Swim Trainer is a unique Dryland Swim Trainer that allows you to improve technique, power, and swim training consistency. With the trainer you can do specific power and technique work, including working on your catch and core activation, and it helps you stay consistent even if you don't have much time to train. You can try the Zen8 risk-free for up to 30 days, and you can get 20% off your first order on zen8swimtrainer.com/tts.   LINKS AND RESOURCES: Michele's Twitter profile Strength training for endurance performance with Richard Blagrove, PhD | EP#292 Nitrate loading, marathons, and endurance sports science with prof. Andy Jones | EP#187 Durability in endurance sports with Ed Maunder, PhD and Stephen Seiler, Phd | EP#295 Aerobic decoupling, durability and endurance performance with Daniel Muniz, PhD | EP#343 Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors - Joyner 1985 The Physiology of the World Record Holder for the Women's Marathon - Jones 2006 A physiologist's view of running economy - Daniels 1985 Running economy: Measurement, norms, and determining factors - Barnes and Kilding 2015 Effect of performance level on changes in economy during prolonged running - Zanini et al. 2022 Effects of Two Hours of Heavy-Intensity Exercise on the Power-Duration Relationship - Clark et al. 2018 Dynamics of the power-duration relationship during prolonged endurance exercise and influence of carbohydrate ingestion - Clark et al. 2019 Prolonged cycling reduces power output at the moderate-to-heavy intensity transition - Stevenson et al. 2022 The Importance of ‘Durability' in the Physiological Profiling of Endurance Athletes - Maunder et al. 2021 Decoupling of Internal and External Workload During a Marathon: An Analysis of Durability in 82,303 Recreational Runners - Smyth et al. 2022   RATE AND REVIEW: If you enjoy the show, please help me out by subscribing, rating and reviewing: www.scientifictriathlon.com/rate/   CONTACT: Want to send feedback, questions or just chat? Email me at mikael@scientifictriathlon.com or connect on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter.  

The following is a conversation between Michele Zanini, Co-author of Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, and Denver Frederick, the Host of The Business of Giving. Today, many organizations are feeling stuck and struggling to move away from outdated management practices towards a more human-centered approach. It's no easy feat, but luckily, there's a book that can help. Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them offers powerful strategies for creating organizations that truly value their people and empower them to reach their full potential. And we're delighted to have one of its co-authors with us today, Michele Zanini, who also is a co-founder of MLab. 

Guest Bio: Rita McGrath is a best-selling author,  sought-after advisor and speaker, and  longtime professor at Columbia Business School. Rita is one of the world's top experts on strategy and innovation and is consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50.  McGrath's recent book on strategic inflection points is Seeing Around Corners: How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2019). Rita is the author of four other books, including the best-selling The End of Competitive Advantage (Harvard Business Review Press, 2013). Since the onset of the pandemic, Rita has created workshops, strategy sessions and keynotes, applying her tools and frameworks to strategy under high levels of uncertainty to specific issues organizations are facing.  As Rui Barbas, the Chief Strategy Officer for Nestle USA said, “You were incredibly insightful and, despite the virtual setting, there was lots of engagement and comments from leaders sharing eye-opening observations and building on your examples throughout. You delivered the inspiration and illustration desired and it was exactly the right focus and challenge for this team. Appreciate your time throughout the process to align on content and delivery. The future-focus theme was the perfect close to our leadership summit.” Rita's work is focused on creating unique insights.  She has also founded Valize a companion company, dedicated to turning those insights into actionable capability.  You can find out more about Valize at www.valize.com. McGrath received her Ph.D. from the Wharton School (University of Pennsylvania) and has degrees with honors from Barnard College and the Columbia School of International and Public Affairs. She is active on all the main social media platforms, such as Twitter @rgmcgrath.  For more information, visit RitaMcGrath.com.   Social Media/ Websites: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ Twitter: @rgmcgrath Instagram: @ritamcgrathofficial Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/rgmcgrath Websites: https://ritamcgrath.com and valize.com Rita's Newsletter/ Articles Substack: https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ Medium: https://rgmcgrath.medium.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/thought-sparks-6787762418471755776/ Books Seeing Around Corners by Rita McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seeing-Around-Corners-Inflection-Business/dp/0358022339 The Entrepreneurial Mindset by Rita Gunther McGrath and Ian MacMillian https://www.amazon.co.uk/Entrepreneurial-Mindset-Continuously-Opportunity-Uncertainty/dp/0875848346 The End of Competitive Advantage by Rita Gunther McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Competitive-Advantage-Strategy-Business/dp/1422172813 Disrupt Yourself by Whitney Johnson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disrupt-Yourself-New-Introduction-Relentless/dp/1633698785 Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/1633696022 Reimagining Capitalism by Rebecca Henderson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reimagining-Capitalism-Business-Save-World/dp/0241379660 When More is Not Better by Roger L. Martin https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-More-Not-Better-Overcoming/dp/1647820065/ Being An Adult by Lucy Tobin https://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Adult-ultimate-getting-together-ebook/dp/B07GQ1KRTC/ Only The Paranoid Survive by Andy Grove https://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/dp/1861975139  Ula Ojiaku: My guest today is Dr. Rita McGrath. She's a best-selling author, a sought-after speaker and advisor and consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50. In this episode, Rita talked about the concept of inflection points from her book ‘Seeing Around Corners' and how as leaders, we can train ourselves to spot these inflection points and act on the information we receive. She also talked about making complex things simple for the people we work with. I learnt a lot speaking with Rita and I'm sure you will find this conversation insightful as well. Thank you again for watching! It's an honor to have you on the show, Rita McGrath. Many, many thanks for joining us. Rita McGrath: Well, thank you Ula. It's a pleasure to be here. Ula Ojiaku: Great. Now, can you tell us about yourself? How did the Rita, Dr. Rita McGrath we know today evolve? Rita McGrath:  Well, it would have to start with my parents, of course. I mean, all great stories start with your parents. And so, my parents were both scientists. My mother was a Microbiologist, and my father was an Organic Chemist. And so, I grew up in a house where, you know, (if) a question couldn't be answered, you went and got the reference book and figured it out. And both, (had) incredible respect for science and for diligence. And, you know, the house was always full of books and lots of emphasis on learning. I wouldn't say we were, financially all that well-off – we weren't poor by any means. But it was, you know, there wasn't like a lot of money to spare, but there was always money for books, and there was always money for, you know, educational experiences and that kind of thing. So, that's the household I grew up in. So, my parents, when I was born, were both on the staff at the Yale Medical School. So, they were both researchers there. And then my dad in the late 60s, got an offer to go join this upstart, fledgling company that was at the cutting edge of all kinds of things in his field and that was Xerox Corporation. And he was very conflicted about leaving academia, but went off eventually to Xerox. So, we moved the family to Rochester, New York. So that's where I did most of my growing up. And my mother at that time, decided to stay home, more or less. And then she started a scientific translation business. So, she moved into an entrepreneurial career more than her scientific career. And then when it came time to go to college, I went to Barnard College in the City of New York. I'd always thought New York was an amazing place and was accepted there. So, went off to New York, did my Bachelor's and my Master's in Political Science and Public Policy. I was very interested in public policy and matters of social contract and those kinds of things. And then my first job was actually with the City of New York, I ran purchasing systems for government agencies. It doesn't sound very glamorous. But today, we would call it digital transformation. It was the very first wave of companies taking their operations in a digital form. And it was very exciting and I learned a lot. Then I got to the end of… the thing about public service is when you start, there's (this) unlimited sort of growth that can happen for a few years, and then it really just levels off. And you're never going to go beyond that. So, I kind of reached that headroom and decided to do something different. Ula Ojiaku:  Was it at that point that you decided to go for your PhD? Rita McGrath:  And that was one of the options I was considering. And my husband basically said, ‘look, if you get into a top five school, it's worth doing and if you don't, it's probably not.' But you have to think in that time, MBA programs were just exploding, and there'd been a lot of pressure on the administrators of MBA programs, to put PhD accredited faculty in front of their students. The big knock against the MBA at the time was, oh, they're just trade schools. You know, we've got some guy who ran an entire company comes in and talks and that's not really academically suitable. And so, there was a huge pressure for schools to find PhD accredited people-  that still exists (but) the market pressures has changed a lot. But when I was doing my PhD, it was pretty sure I would get a job if I managed to complete the degree. So that that gave me that extra input to do that. Ula Ojiaku:  Did you already have like children when you started the PhD? Rita McGrath: Yes Ula Ojiaku:  And how did you cope? Rita McGrath:  Our son was, how old was he? He would have been nine months old when I started my PhD program. Yeah. Ula Ojiaku: Wow, 9 months old. Rita McGrath: Oh, yeah, it was a real challenge. And I guess everybody manages those kinds of challenges in their own way. But yeah, it was a struggle because, you know, typical day would be you know, get up, get the baby to daycare or wherever and then do school or whatever I had to do that day. And then it was sort of pick them up. By the time I had a second child it was pick them up, get them dinner, get them bedtime, get them story, and then I'll be back at my desk at nine o'clock at night, trying to do what I needed to do. So, it was a new turn. It was tough. It was difficult years. I mean, joyful years though but it was just hard to fit everything in. Ula Ojiaku:  I can imagine. I mean, although I'm thinking of starting my PhD (studies), my children aren't that small but I do remember the time (they were), you know, I was still working full time. So, the challenge is you'd go to work and then come back to work. I mean, to another type of work. And then when they go to bed, the work continues. Yeah, it's interesting. Rita McGrath: Quite exhausting. Ula Ojiaku: You can say that. I'm so glad they're not in diapers anymore. So, it's baby steps, we are getting there. So, can we go on to your book, “Seeing Around Corners, How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen”. I'd like to start from an unusual place in the book. I started from the dedication page, and you know, reading everything, and I noticed that, you referred to a conversation, one of the last conversations you had with your mother. Could you tell us about that? Rita McGrath:  Oh sure. She was well, at the time, she was quite ill, she had sarcoma in her lung, and she was quite ill. It's a horrible disease, and we haven't got any real treatments for it. So, the recommendation is you do chemo and that really knocks you out. So, she was quite ill and sort of migrating between the chair and the couch and the chair and the couch. And in one of those conversations, she just said ‘I want you to know I'm proud of you. And I've had a good life and I'm prepared for whatever comes next.' And I thought that was lovely of her to say and I thought in that moment to pass it on to all these other women. And you know you bring up motherhood and being a working woman and all those complicated emotions that come with that because there seems to be guilt around every corner you know, if you're not at home full time, oh you're a terrible mom. And if you're not at work full time, you're a terrible worker. I just I think so many of those things are just designed to twist us up into little balls. And when I look at my own mother's experience - she was a working woman… I grew up but I think I'm third or fourth generation working woman so it never even occurred to me that wouldn't be possible. But I think what often is missing is this validation, you know that for women who are trying to you know make their way professionally and be great, responsible parents and do all these other things that often there's a sense of a lack of self-worth you know, ‘oh, I'm not doing enough.' The more I hear that… Ula Ojiaku:  I feel like that some… most days I feel like that… Rita McGrath: Believe me, you are doing enough Ula Ojiaku:  Sometimes I ask my children, am I a good mom? Rita McGrath:  I think part of it too is we, and when I say we, I mean baby boomer mothers and maybe a little younger. We got ourselves all tangled up in this if it's not like organic, hand-processed  lima beans with you know, organic succotash, mixed in you know, it's not good baby food. Honestly, Gerber's exists to provide perfectly nutritious food for really young babies and they've been doing it for decades and you can trust that and if it makes your life easier, go with it. Ula Ojiaku:  Thank you! Rita McGrath: You know, I think we I think we get ourselves all tossed up in like, what does good mean? I mean, honestly, the kids don't mind you know? I mean, they'd celebrate if it was chicken finger night. Ula Ojiaku:  Let's go to the book. You know, because in your book you said you it's about how to spot inflections before they happen in business. Can you give us examples of, you know, businesses that had these inflection points occur, and they failed to recognize it and what was the impact? Rita McGrath:  Sure, let's take one that is quite sad to me, which is Intel. And Intel built its, well, Intel went through a major inflection point, in fact, the originator of the concept was Andy Grove, who was their former CEO. And he talked about his inflection points in his book, Only the Paranoid Survive, which is really a brilliant, brilliant book. And one of the reasons I wrote my book was that very little had been done since his book on that topic. And Grove built this incredible company, Intel. And they were making microprocessor chips. And they were very, very powerful, very fast chips. And so, the assumptions inside Intel's business model was, what customers were going to pay for was faster, faster, faster, more computation power, more and more powerful. But what they didn't really think about was energy consumption. And as the world went more mobile… so the Intel product is the PC, and the PC, the desktop PC remains firmly plugged into the wall. And then later, we make PC chips that maybe have slightly lower power consumption to power PCs, but it's still that notion of power, you know, and I think the inflection point that caught Intel by surprise, to some extent was, this movement towards mobile, where the vast majority of chips being made were these completely different architecture chips by  companies like ARM and you know, and companies like that, which, from their inception, recognized that low power was the way to go. Then they weren't very powerful in the sense of speed, which is what Intel was driving its business towards. But they were powerful in the sense of ubiquitous low power, long battery life, that kind of thing. And I think that's an example of the kind of assumption that can cause a company to get into trouble, when the underlying shift in the business environment says, ‘wait a minute, this thing you've been building all this time may not be what is needed by the marketplace.' Ula Ojiaku:  That's interesting. So, it brings me to the point of, the points you made about, you know, the indicators, the early warnings, and you mentioned the concept of you know lagging, current and leading indicators. And there was an emphasis in your book on, you know, leading indicators. Could you tell us a bit about that? Rita McGrath:  Sure. Well, so leading indicators are today's information about tomorrow's possibilities. And what we unfortunately rely on a lot in business is lagging indicators - so profits, performance, you know, ROI, all those things are lagging some kind of decision that you made a long time ago. So, the concept of leading indicators is to try to get business leaders to think about what would have to be true, you know, before I was able to make a certain decision, what are the leading indicators? So, an example would be back in the 90s, computer scientists all over the world realized that come the year 2000, from the turn of the millennium, that the way computer programs had been programmed, was only two digits for the year. And so, when the year went to zero-zero, computers, were going to think it was 1900 and this was going to be terrible. Because they all get out of sync, you know, and planes would drop out of the sky. You're gonna become unstable, and you'll all need to move to Montana and stuff … I don't know if you can remember this. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah, the Y2K bug… Rita McGrath: Oh my goodness…! Ula Ojiaku: It was a big sensation. Yeah… Rita McGrath: Apocalyptic – remember?! And yet, when the big moment came the year 2000. What happened? Well, nothing happened. Why did nothing happen? We looked at that early warning, and we said, whoa, if that happens, it's bad. And then so companies, prodded by their accounting firms, prodded by other security considerations invested billions in correcting that flaw. And so, that's an example of an early warning. And there are a couple of things to understand about early warning. So, the first important thing is, the measure of a good early warning is not, did it predict what happened. The measure of a good leading indicator is, did it help you prepare for what might happen? And so, I think that's a really important distinction, because we oftentimes, oh, you that didn't predict this or that. But that's not the point. The point is, did it help you think more broadly about what might happen so that you could be prepared? So, I think that's the first thing. The second thing to remember about leading indicators is they're often not quantitative in the way that we like to think about quantitative things. They're often qualitative. They often take the form of stories. And they often come from what are called unrepresentative parts of your mental ecosystem. So, you know, it's that person on the loading dock (saying to themselves), ‘this is, well, that's weird, a customer never asked for that before', or the person answering the phone, you know, in headquarters going, ‘Well, I don't understand why they need that information…' You know, it's those little anomalies or things that depart from business as usual, that are often the weak signals that you need to be paying attention to. Ula Ojiaku:  So, can you give us an example where you mean, I mean, of how we can go about choosing good leading indicators? Rita McGrath:  Well, in the book, I describe a technique that I use, which is you take a couple of uncertainties and juxtapose them on each other. And that gives you four or more you can do this for as many as you like, stories from the future, possibly a future that we could live in. And then depending on which one you want to think about, you say, ‘okay, I'm gonna write a headline as if it came from a newspaper story about that scenario. And I'm gonna work backwards and say, what has to be true for that headline to emerge.' So, take an example that's playing out right now, chronic and accelerating decline in birth rates in the United States. People are just deciding not to enlarge their families or not to start their families at all. And for very good reasons, you know, the level of social support for families is very low. Mostly women are bearing the burden. And very often women are the ones that make a large part of the decision about whether the family is going to grow or not. And so, we're facing a real baby bust. Well, if that's true, and we follow that along, well, what are some things that would be early warnings or indicators of what that world will be like? Well, you'll see a decline of working people relative to retired people, or people needing assistance, you'll see, you know, fewer kids with more resources to support them. So, the kind of baby Prince phenomena we saw in China. There are lots of things you can kind of work through. But once you say, ‘okay, I see a world with a million fewer children three years from now, than we would have expected well, okay, what now working backward? What does that tell us we need to be paying attention to today? Ula Ojiaku:  Yes, yes. That's a great example. And I wonder, though, so given all, you know, the research that has led to, and your experience as well, consulting with, you know, most of these large organizations, the case studies, you've come to witness and all that, what would you, what would be your advice to leaders of such organizations, you know, in terms of how they can better prepare themselves or equip themselves to recognize these inflection points, and lead effectively? Rita McGrath:  Well, I think the first principle is you have to be discovery driven. In other words, you have to be curious about what's going on. And if you're the kind of leader who (when) someone brings you a piece of information, and instead of treating it like a gift, you're like, oh no, you don't understand that's wrong. That's not the way the world works. If you're dismissive of information people are bringing you that's very dangerous. Because the information you need is not going to come from your lieutenants at headquarters, it's going to come from that guy on the loading dock. So, I think you want to think about establishing some kind of information flows, that go directly from where the phenomena are happening to your desk. So, as an example, a company I really admire is the German metal services company Klockner. And their CEO, Gisbert Ruehl was taking them through a digital transformation. And his big concern was not that they meant it, right? But that his lieutenants, his middle manager, cohort, would be so expert, and so experienced at the way business was, that they would just shut down these digital efforts. And he was very, very concerned about that. He said, well, I need some way of making my message heard directly to the people that are on the frontlines and I also need a way of hearing from them what's going on. So, he implemented Yammer, called non-hierarchical communication. And the deal was anybody in the company that had something he needed to know should feel comfortable sending him a note. And I'm told, I don't know this for a fact that I'm told that at headquarters, he had his instance of Yammer set up so that the lower the hierarchical level of the person, the higher it came in his newsfeed. Ula Ojiaku: Oh, wow. Rita McGrath: So, you know, I can talk to my lieutenants, anytime. Information I need is in the, you know, 24-year-old person who's just joined us with an engineering degree, who's looking at our manufacturing process for screwdrivers and saying, ‘Why do you do it that way? There must be a better way of doing this…' That's the information I really need and he set up a whole system to try to get that information to him, to himself. Ula Ojiaku:  Would you say there's a typical kind of leader with, you know, some certain characteristics that's best equipped to spot the inflection point, and you know, kind of lead the charge and get the organizations in line? Rita McGrath:  You know, I think it's more of the behavior, it's not the characteristics. So, I've seen charismatic, attractive, you know, movie star type CEOs be good at this. I've seen people you look at and you go ‘Really? He looks kind of like he slept in his clothes all night.' I've seen those people be good at it. So, you know, I think the differentiation is this, this hunger for new information, this curiosity, this relentless… ‘tell me again…' and ‘why was that and why was that?' It is this urgent need to really learn what's going on. And then and then putting yourself in the, in the context. So, one of the people I'm working with right now is a brilliant retail CEO, and everything. And one of the things he would do before hiring anybody into his senior team, is he would spend a day or two walking the stores, you know, and in his explanation to me was, ‘I want to see how they react to the stores. I want to see how they treat the people working in stores. I want to see what they notice, you know, I want to see if they notice that there's a thing out of array and I want to see how they are with me, like if they spend their whole two days in store visits, sucking up to me - that's not somebody I need, you know. And so, I think the best leaders along those lines are people who are relentlessly curious, bring people around them who are diverse, you know, you don't just want echo chambers of themselves. Ula Ojiaku:  True, true. You don't want ‘yes' men if you really want to make an impact really. Yeah, and how can I, as a person, train myself to also recognize these inflection points. Rita McGrath:  Well, it depends what the inflection point is. So, if it's a question of, you've been making nice steady progress in your career, and now you've hit some kind of ceiling and you just feel you're not growing or developing any more, then that choice is really okay, I need to… the way Whitney Johnson would put this, she's written a great book on this, “Disrupt Yourself”, right? You go up this S curve, then you need to make the decision if you're going to take on the J curve, right, which is the part below the S curve before you get into the next round of learning. So, that's a personal decision, really only you can make a decision like that. Then there are the cases where inflection points are thrust upon you. So you lose a job, your spouse has some setback, a family member has an urgent need that makes whatever you were doing before impossible. I mean, there's all kinds of outside things that can happen to you. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah… Rita McGrath: And I think the best way to try to look at those is. ‘is this a slingshot to a better future, potentially?' And you know, how many people have you talked to who got fired, and some years later say, ‘that was the best thing that ever happened to me, it shook me out of my complacency. It made me think differently.' And so, I think a lot of times, you know, we, it's very comfortable (staying) stuck in our ruts. And sometimes it takes a bit of a jolt to get us out of that. Ula Ojiaku:  That's a great one. Can I just ask you about so it's not really about your book, Seeing Around Corners, but this one is about the Entrepreneurial Mindset? Just one quick question. Because there's a quote, in your book, that book that says, you know, “the huge part of becoming an entrepreneurial leader is learning to simplify complexity, so that your co-workers can act with self-confidence.” That quote, it made me kind of be more conscious about, am I really making things simpler for my co-workers instead of, you know, rather than to enable us, you know, achieve the best that we could as a group? So why did you, make that quote and associate it with an Entrepreneurial Mindset? Rita McGrath:  Well, because if you make things complicated for people, there's maybe three responses, right? One is they'll start on whatever they start on, which is kind of random. And maybe they finish it, and maybe they don't, but it's really now you're leaving it to chance. Because if you give people more to digest than they can manage, you're going to get back some fraction of it. So that's one thing. Second thing that happens is, if it's too complex, a lot of times people will pick what they want to do, not have anything to do with the agenda that you want to set for the organization. And the third thing is there's just a laziness that comes from having things be complex. I know for myself, when I've had to do strategy statements for myself, or my business, it takes a long, long time to get it done into a few simple things. And each word has to mean something. So, as an example, some years back, I started a sister company. It's called Valize. And the strategy really is to its mission, its purpose for me, is to help organizations create innovation and transformation capability as the basis for shared prosperity. And that sounds really simple. That sounds really kind of ‘duh, that's not so grand, but I mean, the hours it took to get to that simplicity of statement. And then once you've got something like that, you can go back and you could say, okay, well, here's the thing that I'm being asked to do or think I'm thinking of, does it build capability? Yes. No. Does it build shared prosperity? Yes, no. Does it help organizations to help themselves? Yes, no. And it sorts out a lot of stuff means a lot of stuff we could do. But there are only a few things that really fit into that sweet spot of shared capability. So, having that simplification allows you to clear out a lot of the …, there are always wonderful options that you got to do things, right? And it's a question of abundance, you've usually got more great options than you could possibly exercise. So, picking the best ones is the challenge. Ula Ojiaku:  Wow, wow. I'm going to listen to this part again. You've mentioned some books already, like Andy Grove's, Only the Paranoid, I mean, Only the Paranoid survive. And you've mentioned the book, Disrupt Yourself… In addition to these books, and your wonderful suite of books, what other books would you recommend to the audience that you believe have influenced you that you'd recommend to the listeners that would help them you know, learn more about this topic? Rita McGrath: Oh, that's hard, because there's so many. Well, I love Safi Bahcall's Loonshots. I think that's a brilliant, brilliant book. And it really gets to the heart of how innovation actually happens rather than how we think it happens. I rather like Gary Hamel's and Michele Zanini's book, Humanocracy which has the basic question, you know, if you look at Instagram, or Twitter or any of these social platforms, you see these people who are just brilliant. I mean, they're creating incredibly creative stuff. And then we put them inside companies. And we insist that they do things by the rule, and we block all the creativity out of them. So, why do we do that? You know, I think that's a really great one. I'm very taken with Rebecca Henderson's, Re-imagining Capitalism in a World on Fire. Very, very brilliant. Roger Martin, When More is not Better. Just recently had a Julie Lythcott-Haims on my fireside chat program, which is and she's got a book called Your Turn, How to be an Adult”, which is, on a personal level, absolutely fascinating - really good book. I like Peter Sim's, Little Bets. You know, they're just so many I mean, I wouldn't even know where to where to start. Those are the ones that are sort of top of mind at the moment. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. scribbling away as you're talking, and yeah, these all these would be in the show notes with the links to them. So that's great. Now, how can the audience reach you? If they want to, you know follow your work. Rita McGrath: The best place to start is my website, which is really ritamcgrath.com, that's easy. I have columns that I write for. They're currently going up on substack and medium. If you just search my name and or medium, you'll find me there. I do weekly, LinkedIn post, which goes to subscribers on LinkedIn. Also, that's all sort of good places to start. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. Are you on social media? Rita McGrath:  Oh, yes. So yes. I'm on Twitter @RGMcGrath. And I'm on LinkedIn. Okay. I'm not on Facebook so much. But I have put things I post there, but I'm not really on it very much. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. All right. That's, I mean, thanks for those. Now, let's wrap up any ask of the audience first? Rita McGrath:  I think we're in a remarkable moment, right now, you know, we've had so many of our previous habits and assumptions disrupted, that I think it would be a shame to lose, to lose all that and just go back to the way things were. So, I think it's an opportunity to reflect and to really think about, what kind of future do we want to build now that so many of our assumptions and institutions have been challenged, and we learned whole new tricks, we learned whole new ways to do things. Let's not just snap back to the way it was, let's think about inventing better. Rita McGrath:  Really, I think there's going to be great opportunity coming out of this current crisis and those who are thinking ahead will benefit from it. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay, great. Well, Rita, thank you so much for your time, and it's been a pleasure again, having you on the show. Rita McGrath: Thank you very much.  

Bio Bjarte Bogsnes has a long international career, both in Finance and HR. He is a pioneer in the Beyond Budgeting movement and has been heading up the implementation of Beyond Budgeting at Equinor (formerly Statoil), Scandinavia's largest company. He led a similar initiative in Borealis in the mid-nineties, one of the companies that inspired the Beyond Budgeting model. He has helped numerous other companies globally getting started on a Beyond Budgeting journey.  Bjarte is Chairman of Beyond Budgeting Roundtable (BBRT).  He is a popular international business speaker and Beyond Budgeting coach, and a winner of a Harvard Business Review/McKinsey Management Innovation award. Bjarte is the author of "Implementing Beyond Budgeting - Unlocking the Performance Potential", where he writes about his almost thirty years long Beyond Budgeting journey.  His new book “This is Beyond Budgeting – A Guide to more Adaptive and Human Organizations” with a foreword by Gary Hamel is just out. Bjarte is available for speaking engagements and select consulting work through Bogsnes Advisory.  Episode Highlights  04:33 New book ‘This is Beyond Budgeting' 07:40 Beyond Budgeting 16:25The issue with the current performance appraisal process 19:45 The case for change 31:00 Becoming braver 33:50 ‘Losing' control 49:10 Reflect on the risk picture  Books ·         This is Beyond Budgeting: A Guide to More Adaptive and Human Organizations by Bjarte Bogsnes This Is Beyond Budgeting: A Guide to More Adaptive and Human Organizations: Amazon.co.uk: Bogsnes, Bjarte: 9781394171248: Books ·         Implementing Beyond Budgeting: Unlocking the Performance Potential by Bjarte Bogsnes Implementing Beyond Budgeting: Unlocking the Performance Potential: Amazon.co.uk: Bogsnes, Bjarte: 9781119152477: Books ·         Maverick by Ricardo Semler https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maverick-Success-Behind-Unusual-Workplace/dp/0712678867 ·         Humanocracy by Gary Hamel et al https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/B08F2TCKWN ·         The Future of Management by Gary Hamel and Bill Breen https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Management-Gary-Hamel/dp/1422102505  Websites ·         Beyond Budgeting Institute https://bbrt.org ·         Bogsnes Advisory (Bjarte's consulting firm) https://bogsnesadvisory.com  Social media ·         LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjarte-bogsnes-41557910/ ·         Twitter:  @bbogsnes  Guest Intro (Ula Ojiaku) Hello and welcome to the Agile Innovation Leaders podcast. I'm Ula Ojiaku. On this podcast I speak with world-class leaders and doers about themselves and a variety of topics spanning Agile, Lean Innovation, Business, Leadership and much more – with actionable takeaways for you the listener. Ula Ojiaku Hello, Bjarte. Thank you for being my guest on the Agile Innovation Leaders Podcast, it's a great honour. I remember meeting you for the first time last year in Copenhagen at the Beyond Budgeting Roundtable, and you kindly accepted. So thank you for being here today. Bjarte Bogsnes Thank you for the invitation. Ula Ojiaku Great. So could you tell us any experience that you might have had growing up, that would have led to where you are today? Bjarte Bogsnes Well, the author Douglas Adams, he once wrote that: “I might not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I ended up where I needed to be”, and that's basically the story of my life because it was in no way given that we should sit here today and talk about Beyond Budgeting, because my career started in a very different place. I'm a finance guy by education and after I finished my business studies, I joined a company called Statoil, it's today called Equinor, it's Scandinavia's largest company, it's an energy company, and my first management job in this company, the year after I joined, was actually Head of the Corporate Budget Department. So I have been heading up more budget processes in my career than I want to be reminded about in that job and in many other Finance Manager jobs in different, you know, jobs. I've been working abroad quite a lot for the same company. So I used to be a big fan of this way of managing, there is actually an interview with me from the company magazine at the time where I'm praising the brilliance of budgeting, and I hope that there are no more copies around. And another reason I like that quote from Adams is that I come from a teacher family. My parents were teachers, my sister was a teacher, so I was in the way, the black sheep in the family because I went for Business Studies. But these days I really feel that I'm back in the fold, because I feel that that is what I'm doing now, teaching, and trying to make a positive difference, just like my parents and my sister did. Ula Ojiaku So teaching, it seems like it's a full circle, but you wouldn't have gotten here without, you know, still going through that process of working in business. Bjarte Bogsnes No, I think I'm very glad I have that background because it means that I know what I'm talking about. I know most of the fix in the budget book and some of them are quite nasty, and so when I would discuss with managers, finance people and others then, I mean, I know the arguments, and I know how to respond. Another important part of this journey was that I am one of the few finance persons, I believe, who has also worked in Human Resources. I was heading up the HR function in a large European company for some years, and that experience was also a big eyeopener for me when it comes to the leadership, the people side of Beyond Budgeting, which is just as big as the kind of finance process side. Ula Ojiaku Nice. Now, I mean, we will be getting to talk about your book, which is This Is Beyond Budgeting, that was released this February, 2023. Congratulations! Bjarte Bogsnes Thank you. Ula Ojiaku What I noticed was that the difference between This is Budgeting, I mean your, your second book and, Implementing Beyond Budgeting, which preceded this, this is actually a quicker read, you know, smaller, it seems like it was condensed and it was done on purpose. Could you tell us about this book, the main message? Bjarte Bogsnes Yes. Now, first of all, I mean, that is a correct observation. This is a shorter book, on purpose, and the simple reason is that we need to reach people, busy people, with limited time to read, and they don't have time to read bricks. So, yes, it is a shorter book, it is recapping some key messages from my earlier books, but there's also a lot of new stuff in it. I have learned a lot since the other book you've shown was published back in 2016. I've written a lot, I've worked with a lot of great organisations. So, again, a lot of new learning also. And I really do hope to reach, I did reach a number of executives, managers with my previous book, and I know, because of nice feedback from many of them. But there are so many more of them that still needs to hear this message. So that is why it's the shorter one. And I'm also very grateful and happy that Gary Hamel agreed to write the foreword. I mean, he is such an inspiration when it comes to management innovation and has been for such a long time. I mean, hearing Gary speak is simply mind-blowing. I mean, he is dynamite as a speaker and I think he's written a great foreword, and there are also some, quite some nice endorsements from important people in the agile community and kind of borderline agile community, Rita McGrath, Dave Snowden and Julian Birkinshaw, Jos de Blok, the founder of Buurtzorg. So I'm also very happy that these people took the time to read it and write these nice endorsements. Ula Ojiaku Indeed, we will go into some key points in the book for the listeners or viewers, they would have to buy it to go through it, to know what it's all about. But can you tell us, because there might be some people listening to this that don't know, what Beyond Budgeting is all about. Bjarte Bogsnes No, that's obviously an important question and let me start with saying that Beyond Budgeting is a somewhat misleading name, we know. It was, Beyond Budgeting was invented, developed 25 years ago, and back then there was nothing called agility, agile, or business agility, so if that label had been around at the same time, maybe that would've been the name of this. But it is basically about business agility. And, as the subtitle in my book states, it's about creating organisations that are more adaptive and more human, and Beyond Budgeting is very much about changing traditional management. But at the core of traditional management, you find not just the budgeting process, but also the budgeting mindset, built on the assumptions that the world is predictable and plannable and that you can't trust people. These are assumptions that we really challenge in Beyond Budgeting, because it isn't true. So if you want to change traditional management, you need to do something with the elephant in the room, the budgeting process. And that is something that, if you look at Agile, I think Agile has kind of avoided that elephant throughout all these years. It's been regarded as something unavoidable, a lower business, which isn't true, because more and more companies are skipping this way, or managing. And talking about Agile, I'm a big fan of Agile, but what I'm going to say now is not criticising Agile, but I think it would also help to explain what Beyond Budgeting is. I think part of the success of what I call early Agile has to do with its birthplace in software development, and how teams are working. And I think in those early years, I think what executives in big companies, what they observed and heard about Agile was better projects, faster projects, more value, more engaged people, and who can be against that, wonderful, I love it, come on guys, Agile is great. Then for obvious reasons, companies started to scale Agile, right? And at one level it kind of reaches the executives and has consequences, implications for these guys' beliefs and behaviours. And then it isn't that it wasn't that fun anymore. I think that's one reason why scaling Agile has been difficult. Another reason is that you can't scale Agile using the same language and tools and frameworks that did wonders back in those days. I mean, for executives who don't play rugby and don't know Agile, they might think that Scrum is some kind of skin disease, or Slack is about laziness or that Sprint is about running faster, or continuous delivery is about 24/7. Right? So, I mean we need a language here that these guys can understand and relate to, and Beyond Budgeting is providing that language. They might still disagree, but they understand what we are talking about. And the last issue here is that, again, Agile was not designed as a way to run an enterprise. So when you try to scale it, these holes in Agile become visible, like how do you manage resources?  How do you do forecasting? How do you evaluate performance? How do you reward? Right? And these are the holes that Beyond Budgeting is filling, because, again, Beyond Budgeting was designed from day one as an Agile way of running an organisation. And that is why we never talk about scaling agile, because it comes scaled, it is scaled, right? But this is also why Beyond Budgeting in Agile is such a beautiful fit, and why so many companies on Agile transformation journeys are reaching out to us because they reach these insights and learnings and understand that there can be no true agile transformation without Beyond Budgeting. Ula Ojiaku That's an excellent overview of Beyond Budgeting. And I understand, you know, in Beyond Budgeting, there are 10 principles, and there is the leadership principles, if I may say, and then the management processes. Do you want to talk a bit more about this, please? Bjarte Bogsnes Yeah. So there're actually a 12 principles, and you're right, six of them are on leadership and six of them are on management processes, and if you look at what Beyond Budgeting is saying about leadership, it is not necessarily that unique. There are many other great communities and models out there saying similar things about leadership, right? Talking about purpose and autonomy, transparency, values, and so on. But very often these models and communities haven't reflected very much, it seems like, about what kind of management processes are needed to activate these leadership intentions, because what is often the case in organisations is that they might have the best intentions on the leadership side. They say the right things, they write the right things, but that doesn't help if the management processes are expressing the exact opposite use. Classic example, it doesn't help to talk loud and warm about how fantastic employees we have on board, and we would be nothing without you, and we trust you so much, but not that much. Of course, we need detailed travel budgets, right? This is hypocrisy, and people notice and the words become hollow, because the management processes has a different message. So that is why there is a strong focus in Beyond Budgeting on coherence between the two, between what is said and what is done, right. So I think that is one and very important aspect with Beyond Budgeting. The other is that, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think any other community out there has cracked the budget problem. The budgeting process is something that everybody complains about. It's maybe the most loathed corporate process out there, followed by performance appraisals, but again, it's kind of been left untouched until Beyond Budgeting came and offered great alternatives to this quite outdated way of managing because, it is fascinating, there are not too many other technologies applied in companies today that are a hundred years old, but that is the age of budgeting invented in 1922 by James O McKinsey, the founder of McKinsey Consulting, right. And I never met Mr. McKinsey, but I don't think he was an evil man. I actually think he had the best of intentions. I mean, he wanted to help organisations perform better. This was management innovation a hundred years ago, and it probably worked a hundred years ago, because the world was completely different, the quality and the capability, competence of people were very different, but today things have changed and that is something that our leadership and management models must reflect. Ula Ojiaku Okay, there's something you said, you know, the two things or two activities, that are probably most loathed in organisations would be the budgeting process and the performance appraisal. And you've talked a bit about the budgeting. So, for the performance appraisal, what exactly about it doesn't sit well with people? Bjarte Bogsnes Oh, that list is long. First of all, I mean, it's just like budgets, as I will come back to, has different purposes, so has the performance appraisal, I mean, one purpose is meant to be learning and development, that's a positive one, but another purpose is to determine rewards, right. So, if you are my manager and I'm coming in to a performance appraisal with you and if my mind is mainly on the reward side, the last thing I want to share with you is where I have learning and development needs, right? I want to brag about all my successes and how great I am and so on, and vice versa. So, kind of combining this in one process, with one outcome is meaningless, and also this focus on rewards and, which very often is about individual bonus, which is one of the problems in traditional management that Beyond Budgeting is strongly against, we believe in common bonus schemes, driven by joint performance instead of individual performance. So it is typically an annual event, right, an annual stunt, it's meaningless to talk about feedback and development once a year, that needs to happen much more continuously, right? So, I think budgeting is a bigger problem, it makes more damage, by all means. But performance appraisals come and the whole low performance management notion, it does almost as much damage. And by the way, that is a label I really dislike, performance management, right? Think about it. What are we really saying? Aren't we saying that if we don't manage your performance, there will be no performance, right? That is not a very positive message, and I also think there's quite a lot of illusion playing out here. I think our ability to manage performance, among knowledge workers in today's people and business realities is actually quite limited compared to what managers and HR people and some finance people often tend to think. So it's an awful label, and, you know, we need to stop thinking about managing people, we need to start thinking about how we can create conditions for people to perform, how we can enable performance, not managing performance. Ula Ojiaku That's a great point Bjarte. So what's the solution? What is the solution that Beyond Budgeting is going to offer? And the next one following it would be, how do we apply this? Bjarte Bogsnes Oh, most people actually who are blank on Beyond Budgeting, when they hear about this, they like it, they see that this makes sense. It's only common sense in a way, this is about taking reality seriously, and it is addressing so many of the pain points they experience working, especially in big companies. But then of course the next question is, well, how do we get started? And we have two general recommendations here. The first one is about the case for change, which simply means that the whole organisation, or as many as possible, has to understand that all those complaints about traditional management, including budgeting, the time it takes, the gaming, the narrow performance language, the outdated assumptions. I mean, these are more than irritating itches, right? These are symptoms of a big and serious problem, namely that this way of thinking, this way of managing originally meant to help organisations perform better is today doing the opposite. It has become more of a barrier than a support for getting out the best possible performance, and the more there is a common understanding of what kind of problems the organisation is trying to solve, the easier everything afterwards is. Because if you are unclear about that, I mean, how can you make your choices about alternatives, right? But the clearer the case for change, the better the problems are defined, the easier it is when you have a choice of design, should we go this way or this way? Well, which solution would best solve the problems they are trying to solve? So the case for change has to be created, a solid one, then getting started. We know that many, having seen the Beyond Budgeting principles for the first time, might feel this is a bit overwhelming, right? With all these bold ambitions around leadership, these major changes towards the traditional management processes. I mean, it is a mouthful, it is quite a comprehensive leadership and management model. And if some are kind of a bit scared, I can understand that. If that is the case, we have a very simple, tested, practical, logical way of getting started, which is more budget-oriented than Beyond Budgeting itself, but it is a great way to get started, and it is simply about asking a very simple question, namely, why do you budget? Right? What's the purpose of a budget? And most people that I've asked that question, when they have thought a little bit about that question, they actually realise that there are more than one purpose with a budget in a typical, and when I say budget, I mean more than project budgets, more than cost budgets, I'm talking profit loss, cash flow, balance sheet budgets, the whole finance definition. And the purpose of these budgets are the following. First, companies make budgets to set targets. It could be financial targets, sales targets, production targets, right? So that's one purpose. Second, companies and organisations use these budgets to try to understand what next year could look like in terms of profit and loss cashflow. So it is a kind of forecast of what next year could look like. So, that's the second purpose. The third purpose is resource allocation. The budget is used as a mechanism for handing out bags of money to the organisation on operational costs and on invests, and it might seem very efficient, practical to solve all three purposes in one process and one set of numbers. But that is also the problem, because what happens if we move into the budgeting process in a company, and upstairs finance want to understand next year's profit and loss and they start on the revenue side asking responsible people, what's your best number for next year? But everybody knows that what I'm sending upstairs will most likely come back to me as a target for next year and often with a bonus attached to it. And that insight might do something to the level or numbers submitted, and I think you know, which way those numbers will go, namely down. Moving to the cost side, operational cost investments. The same people, other people are asked, what's your best numbers for next year? But everybody knows that this is my only shot at getting access to resources for next year, and some might also remember that 20% cut from last year and that insight and that memory might also do something to the level of numbers submitted. And I can see you're smiling a bit, and a lot of people do. Ula Ojiaku I'm smiling because I'm just kind of thinking of incidents in past, you know, in past organisations that it has happened. You know, you just sandbag it and give a very high number, knowing that there might be a challenge. Bjarte Bogsnes And you're in good company when you're smiling, but at the same time, I mean, this is actually quite a serious problem, not just because it destroys the quality of numbers, but even more because it actually stimulates behaviour, which I would call at least borderline unethical. The road-balling, the gaming, the sandbagging, the resource hoarding, I mean, all the kind of behaviours that we wouldn't like to see between colleagues. At the same time, I'm not blaming anyone for behaving like this, right? Because then people are just responding to the system we have designed for them to operate in. So if we want to change behaviours, it's not about fixing people, it's about fixing systems, which again, will change behaviours. So that's the problem, three different purposes in one process, in one set of numbers. Fortunately, there is a very simple solution. We can still, and in many cases, should still do these three things, but we should do them in three different processes because these are different things. A target, that's an aspiration, it's what we want to happen. While a forecast is an expectation, it's what we think will happen whether we like what we see or not, right? Brutally honest, the expected outcome. And last but not least, resource allocation is about optimisation of what is often scarce resources. When we then have separated, then a target can be more ambitious than a forecast, which it typically should be. But the most important thing is that that separation opens up for big and important improvement discussions. We can now improve each of these in ways impossible when it was all bundled in one process and one set of numbers. So we can have great discussions around targets. How do we set better targets that really inspire and motivate people, without people feeling stretched? How can we set targets that are more robust against the volatility, the uncertainty, the complexity, and the ambiguity out there? Forecasting, how can we get the gaming and the politics out to the forecasting? And we don't need a million details here, we are looking at the future. There's uncertainty, which is a big difference on looking at the past through accounting, where details and decimals make sense and is often required. But looking at the future, there is uncertainty and that must have implications. So this isn't a good example of, in this stuff, we have to leave behind that accounting mindset that is applied for describing the past recounting, right? When we look at the future, then we need to accept the ambiguity, the complexity, and not just accept it, but embrace it. And last but not least, resource allocation. How can we find better and more intelligent, more effective ways of managing cost than what a certain Mr. McKinsey could offer us a hundred years ago, under very different circumstances? And this is the important discussion, that separation of purposes that just enables these improvement discussions. And in these discussions, having these discussions that is a kind of not scary organic backdoor into those 12 principles, especially in your leadership, right? Target setting, what really motivates people? Resource allocation, again, do we need detailed travel budgets, if we say we trust people? So, again, it is pure logic. I have yet to meet a CEO, a CFO, that didn't come up with that list of three purposes, didn't understand, when helped a little bit, that that's problematic, and didn't see that there are much better ways when you can improve each one separately. And last but not least, we can also then do something with the cadence, with the rhythm of each one. So now we can organise each of the three: target setting, forecasting, resource allocation, on a rhythm that not just reflects the kind of business we're in, but also the kind of purpose, right. So you would set targets or chase targets much less, I mean, not that often as you would change your forecast, and resource allocation is something that you would do all the time, right. So, and also another beauty of this approach is that when people tell me it's impossible to operate without the budget, then my response is, having explained this, that here we still do what that budget try to do for us, but because we have separated, we can do each one in so much better ways, right? And when people say, well, the bank want a budget, the reason why banks ask for budgets is that they have never really realised that there was something else to ask for. So if you can tell the bank, I won't give you a budget, but I will give you my targets and my reliable forecasts, the bank will be more than happy. So I'm spending a little bit of time on this because it is the more finance-oriented part of Beyond Budgeting, but it is a great way to get started. And I helped so many companies over the years and with the big majority, this is where we started out and what we observe over and over again, is in having those improvement discussions the first year, people are a little bit cautious about how radical shall we be, but then it turns out that things work. And what was scary today is not scary tomorrow because it did work, which means that the appetite for being braver increases, so we typically see that organisations get braver along the way, and when it comes to targets, some, after some years of setting better targets, actually decide to skip targets, right? They realised that they are absolutely able to create direction, create motivation, evaluate performance without traditional targets, some even skip forecasting. I haven't heard anyone skipping resource allocation yet that you need to have, but my point is that people and companies tend to get braver. And a final important message, very few companies that have embarked on a Beyond Budgeting journey go back, very few. I don't need one hand to count the number, and the few who did go back, the reasons fall in two categories. Either a flawed implementation, typically, an unclear, weak case for change, or starting only with rolling forecasting. The other typical reason has to do with a significant change in top management at the very early part of the journey. That's actually something I've experienced myself. Ula Ojiaku Great explanation, Bjarte. So you mentioned, you know, about separating the budget into three distinct parts, the target, the forecast, the resource allocation. Now at the organisations where you've implemented this, did you get any resistance from, you know, the top level leaders, managers, because you know, traditionally whoever has the budget, who controls the money, tends to wield power in any organisation. Was there any resistance? Bjarte Bogsnes Well, I think there has been maybe more fear and confusion than outright resistance, even if the resistance sometimes is hidden behind those two. And of course, one word that keeps coming up over and over again when I discuss Beyond Budgeting with people is the word control, right? The fear, and the context is of course the fear of losing control, but the interesting thing with that word is that, when I ask people to be a bit more specific to define what they mean with control, after people have said cost control, actually many go quiet. They struggle with defining what they are so afraid of losing, and that is quite interesting. And if you look at Oxford Dictionary's definition of control, it is the power to influence people's behaviour or the course of events which, again, then for an organisation typically means controlling people and controlling the future. And again, those are the two assumptions that we challenge in Beyond Budgeting, because it is about not trusting people and thinking that the future is predictable and untenable and on control, what I often tell these people is that, yes, you will lose control, but the control that you lose are the bad controls. What you will get more of is good controls, and I wouldn't call that losing control. And one example of a good control in Beyond Budgeting is transparency, right? And let me give you one classical example of how it can be applied, ad this is a real example from a Swiss's pharmaceutical company called Roche, quite big, and they are today on a Beyond Budgeting journey, but some years ago they did a very interesting experiment around travel cost. In the pilot, they kicked out the travel budget, and most travel groups and regulations, and replaced it with full transparency. So with a few exceptions, everybody could see everything. If you travelled, to where did you fly, sleep, eat, cheaper, expensive, open for your colleagues to see and vice versa. And guess what happened with travel costs in that pilot? We'll Go Down Costs came down through a very simple self-regulating control mechanism. This was about tearing up pages in that rules book instead of doing the opposite. At the same time, we need to remember that transparency is a very powerful mechanism. It has to be applied with wisdom. So if it becomes naming and shaming, it doesn't work. And that is why I would always recommend companies to position transparency more from a learning perspective than from a control perspective. I mean, how can we learn from each other if everything is secret? And that control, that shock control effect, you would get in any case as a nice side effect. But again, it must be applied with wisdom. It is fascinating that the biggest fear managers have is to lose control, but what they haven't understood is that a lot of these controls are nothing but illusions of control. Ula Ojiaku That's very interesting. And another thing that I know that some, or if not most of the listeners will be wondering is, okay, you've talked about how, and in your… in both your books… actually the Implementing Beyond Budgeting and your latest one, This is Beyond Budgeting, you did mention something about “you can't get rid of Command and Control via Command and Control”. And in that part of the book, you were saying something that in terms of implementing it - it's something that you recommend the organisations do themselves. Can you elaborate on this? Cause someone, you know, might wonder, is it that you are against getting consulting help? Bjarte Bogsnes So, consultants and Beyond Budgeting. I think what you refer to is, I have a chapter about implementation advice, and one of these is that nobody can do this for you. And what I mean with that, and I explained this in the book, is that, I mean, I'm not saying that companies shouldn't ask for external help, and I'm offering external help, but what they typically should ask for is some inspiration, some guidance on implementation, connections to other companies that have implemented this, but it is not something that an organisation can delegate to consultants. This is not something consultants can do for you. You have to be in the driver's seat, and the more transformation- oriented your ambitions are, the more the executives need to take this role themselves. And I'm saying this because implementing Beyond Budgeting can be anything from a more cautious improvement of finance processes to a radical organisational transformation, and anything in between. And the higher your ambition levels, the higher the ownership in the organisation has to be. When it comes to the consultants, and I also write about this in my book, this is something that has happened just over the last few years, that is that the big consulting companies have gotten seriously interested in Beyond Budgeting. That was not the case before. And the reason for it is that their clients are getting interested, asking for it. And so most of these would like to work with us in some form or shape. Ula Ojiaku Sorry to interrupt, Bjarte. So by ‘us', you mean the Beyond Budgeting Institute)? Bjarte Bogsnes Yeah. Yes. They want to work with the Beyond Budgeting advisory, the Beyond Budgeting Institute. And again, we are not naive. I mean, we come from different places, we might have different agendas here, but at the same time, these companies, they have channels and muscles that we don't have to the same extent, at least not yet. So we have actually decided to say yes to work with them, because we would rather help them and their clients succeed than to stand on the outside and watch them fail, right? So, we have been working, are working with a number of big companies, together with some of these big consulting companies. Ula Ojiaku That's great. And if I may just point to, because you spearheaded this in Statoil, now known as Equinor, and actually this was, I read this in your Implementing Beyond Budgeting book that your approach was based on two principles, no fixed implementation schedule, and no consultants. So how did that work, not having an implementation schedule. Bjarte Bogsnes Well, if we take the first implementation in Borealis back in the mid-nineties where we had a chance to do this, before there was anything called Beyond Budgeting, this company that was partly owned by Statoil, then, I mean, this wasn't an issue because there was no consultants. Even if we had wanted consultants, there was no one to reach out to. So then it was quite easy.  In Statoil, later Equinor, it was more about the fact that I had that implementation experience from Borealis, which kind of, I became some kind of an in-house consultant. And again, as I said, I'm not saying that companies shouldn't use consultants, but you have to use the right ones and use them in the right way. Ula Ojiaku Okay. Thanks for clarifying. Okay, it seems like, you know, Beyond Budgeting would be something that we should seriously consider implementing in our organisation. What else should we be aware of?” Bjarte Bogsnes Well, I think it is important for everybody, also executives to understand that Beyond Budgeting changes work and how you work in a positive way, and for executives, I mean, the role becomes more strategic, more longer term. It's more about coaching, it's less about micromanagement, and maybe most important, there's a new credibility between what is said and what is done, right, which the organisation will notice. When it comes to other functions like finance, it also has a very positive effect. The job becomes much more business-oriented, less annual stunts, more forward-looking, less backwards-looking, more cooperation with other functions like for instance, human resources. And I can't think of a single finance person in Equinor that wants to go back to the old days and the time before 2005. And I think that provides an indication as well. And another key message is that what we have been talking about today, it will happen. It will happen. I don't care if it will be called Beyond Budgeting, or business agility or whatever, that is not important. But in 15, 20 years time, maybe earlier, when we look back at what was mainstream management in 2023, I think we will smile, maybe even have a laugh, just like we today smile about the days before the internet or before the smartphone. And how long ago is that? It's not that long ago. So organisations have a choice here, they can choose to be early movers or vanguards, understanding that you can get just as much competitive advantage out of management innovation as you can get from technology innovation. Or they can choose to be laggards, dragged into this as one of the last ones or anything in between. And every year you wait, competitors will be ahead of you. And I don't think that choice should be very difficult, and again, it should b. easier to make today, when so many organisations are embarking on a Beyond Budgeting journey. It was a bit tougher and a bit more scary 25 years ago when, when this started out, right. But again, it will happen. Ula Ojiaku I'm going to ask you a question I ask all my guests. What books have influenced you and would you recommend to the audience? Bjarte Bogsnes Well, many, many years ago, when I was an ardent budget supporter and believer, I read Maverick by Ricardo Semler, the former CEO of Semco, and I was mind-blown, simply mind-blown. It, kind of yeah, it really, really moved me, even if I kind of didn't have the chance to adopt any of that thinking before, many, many years later. Lately, again, I've mentioned Gary Hamel, and his co-author, Michele Zanini, they have written great books. The last book Humanocracy is a great one, and, a previous one by Gary Hamel, The Future of Management is also a book that I really like and I recall giving that book to the CEO of Statoil quite early on the journey, and he liked it so much that he gave it as a Christmas present to the rest of the executive committee. Ula Ojiaku Thank you, and of course I would add to the list This is Beyond Budgeting. If someone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way of getting to you? Bjarte Bogsnes Yeah, then I will think about this as getting in touch with us, and when I say us, I mean that there is a core team of five, six people who are kind of driving this. And we have a website called, bbrt.org. That will give you more information about the Beyond Budgeting Roundtable, which is a global network of companies interested in this and individuals interested in this. And that is where you can sign up as company member, individual member. And I also recommend to subscribe to our newsletter, and if you're curious about this guy and all of this then I made that difficult decision a few years ago to leave Equinor, to start Bogsnes Advisory to be able to work full-time with this. And so I have my own small simple website called bogsnesadvisory.com And on bbrt.org you will also find a list of more books that I can highly recommend on this topic. Ula Ojiaku That's great. Are you on social media, Bjarte? Bjarte Bogsnes I am, I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, and the only thing I write about is this stuff. There are no cats and dogs and grandchildren or anything, so that's why it's highly appreciated if somebody wants to follow me. Ula Ojiaku So any final words for the audience in terms of an ask? Is there something you want them to do? Bjarte Bogsnes Reflect a little bit about the risk picture here, because there is a very compelling risk picture, right? If you are afraid that it won't work in your organisation, well, what's really the downside risk? Because if you're right, if it doesn't, you can go back to the old way tomorrow. Not the single soul in the company would've forgotten how to budget as one example, and compare that minimal downside risk with that huge upside potential performance-wise. And I'm saying when this is working, not if it's working, as we have seen in so many organisations. So a very compelling risk picture. I think that is worth reflecting on as well. Ula Ojiaku Well, it's been great speaking with you, Bjarte. Thank you so much for those wise words and the advice, and I would again say to you, the audience, please go grab your copy of Bjarte's book, This Is Beyond Budgeting, which is now out. And I hope we'll definitely have another opportunity to have a conversation and speak about Beyond Budgeting, since you don't want to talk about any other thing. Anyway, so thank you again, Bjarte. It's a pleasure having you on. Bjarte Bogsnes Thank you, Ula. Thank you very much for the invitation. Ula Ojiaku That's all we have for now. Thanks for listening. If you liked this show, do subscribe at www.agileinnovationleaders.com or your favourite podcast provider. Also share with friends and do leave a review on iTunes. This would help others find this show. I'd also love to hear from you, so please drop me an email at ula@agileinnovationleaders.com Take care and God bless!   

How can we create bold, transformative organizations unburdened by bureaucracy and its rule choked power structures? In this episode, Michele Zanini answers this question and more. What You'll Learn: 1. Why does corporate culture reflect a bureaucratic landscape and how do you navigate it to the top? 2. A company case study demonstrating the limiting notions of hierarchy within your organization. 3. How to distribute power and thought innovation to coordinate real change in your company. 4. The risk to brainstorming grandiose ideas in a vacuum vs experimenting with concepts at a small scale. Change happens incrementally. Who is Michele Zanini? Michele Zanini is the co-founder of Management Lab, a consulting firm that specializes in helping organizations develop new approaches to innovation, organizational agility and strategic renewal, all in the face of constant change and disruption. He co-authored the book, Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, which uses data-driven arguments to showcase how your organization can excise bureaucracy and out-run change. Mentions: Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them: https://www.humanocracy.com/ Follow Michele: Website: https://www.michelezanini.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelezanini/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MicheleZanini?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor More of Do Good to Lead Well: Website: https://craigdowden.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigdowden/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/craig-dowden/message

Michele Zanini is the co-founder of the management lab and the co-author of the book “Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them”. Michele helps organisations become more resilient, creative and engaging places to work by inventing new management practices. We have invited Michele to talk about how we can unleash people's potential by introducing a more humanocratic organisational model. The key topics covered in this episode are: How organisations can reach their full potential by introducing the right organisational modelHow conversations in post-bureaucratic companies are far more lateral than they are verticalHow to transfer knowledge and problem-solving expertise in a very organic wayHow to create cross-pollination of expertise within an organisationThe importance of opening up the conversation and giving people the tools to have interesting and productive conversations with each other. For references, links and other episodes, visit the podcast homepage here.  

There's enough evidence that the business case for DEI is robust and there's an overwhelmingly positive result for companies and employees. Surely, there are a few organizations that are nailing it, but in most cases, DEI efforts across the board are spotty, reactive, and episodic, lack strategic follow-through and accountability, and sometimes have completely ineffective results. What can be done to stop the lip service and reverse the tide of apathy, dysfunction, and inaction?  In this podcast episode, Farzin is sharing: Are white men the solution to DEI problems within organizational systems? Communal power of leadership vs. individualistic type of leadership - which is the better option? The impact of existing leadership structures on DEI programs and efforts in the workplace  The most difficult part of implementing a DEI program Are the DEI efforts conducted by employers really empowered enough to be able to make a change within the workplace environment? What is Critical Equity Consulting and how it helps different organizations achieve their DEI goals What are the top three diversity issues you've seen in the workplace and why do you think companies struggle to address these issues?   Farzin Farzad is the founder of Critical Equity Consulting, LLC, a boutique Organizational Justice consulting firm focused on helping organizations rebuild with a primary focus on creating equitable outcomes. Farzin is an Organizational Justice practitioner with experience in higher education, local government, and the private sector. Holding two master's degrees in international affairs and diplomacy as well as a certificate in conflict resolution skills, Farzin leverages his unique academic background, extensive travel experience, and experiential knowledge to provide comprehensive, thought-provoking local and global approaches to his work.   If you found this episode interesting and informative it would mean so much if you share this episode with a friend or a colleague. You can get the share link, or maybe take a screenshot and share it on Instagram through your Instagram stories. You can find Mahir and this podcast @nisarlaw on Instagram and Farzin @criticalequity. You can also share this episode on Tiktok and tag us @discriminationlawyer.    Mentioned in this episode: [Book] Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini  Connect with Farzin Farzad and Critical Equity Consulting: LinkedIn Twitter - @FarzinFarzad Website Twitter - @Critical_Equity Company LinkedIn Instagram - @criticalequity   —--------

In Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini explore why top-down governance and rule-bound management are liabilities in the modern business world, what organizational changes are needed to equip and enable everyone in organizations to be their best and to do their best, how to manage transitions safely, and what kind of leadership such transformations demand.We discuss how human-centred organizational design can engage employees, reduce attrition, and enable better outcomes more quickly and cheaply.Listen in if you want to transform your organization into a powerhouse of the modern economy where the best people want to work.

We are in a fast-paced and technology-driven society. Yet, many organizations continue to have antiquated management systems that are often bureaucratic and hierarchical. Michele Zanini has made it his life's work to overcome this, moving the conversation from bureaucracy to humanocracy. In this episode, he joins J.R. Lowry to take us deep into his book, Humanocracy, which he co-authored with London Business School professor Gary Hamel. Michele is also the co-founder of Management Lab, or MLab, which works with leading-edge firms and progressive practitioners to help them create tomorrow's new practices today. He shares with us how they stumbled into this alternative way of management that reverses the top-down power structure and puts the people forward. With case studies on companies that made the transition, Michele shows the benefits of humanocracy to the overall organization—from innovation to initiative and more! Check out the full series of "Career Sessions, Career Lessons" podcasts here or visit pathwise.io/podcast/. A full written transcript of this episode is also available at https://pathwise.io/podcasts/from-bureaucracy-to-humanocracy-with-michele-zanini.

Bora seguir nosso papo sobre o livro Humanocracia: Criando Organizações tão incríveis quanto as pessoas que as formam, escrito por Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini. Dessa vez discutimos o capítulo 2 do livro, que traz uma crítica bem intensa para a burocracia, além de explorar um pouco sobre quais outras estruturas a reforçam ou são reforçadas por ela. Solta o play e vem com a gente!

Voltamos para nova temporada, com o livro Humanocracia: Criando Organizações tão incríveis quanto as pessoas que as formam, escrito por Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini. Nesse episódio, entendemos um pouco mais o que os autores descrevem como burocracia e como ela atrapalha organizações a exercerem o melhor caminho para um cultura ousada, ágil e centrada nas pessoas. Solta o play com a gente. E olha que temos integrante novo!!!

Unfortunately, most organizations, overburdened by bureaucracy, are sluggish and timid. In the age of upheaval, top-down power structures and rule-choked management systems are a liability. They crush creativity and stifle initiative. As leaders, employees, investors, and citizens, we deserve better. We need organizations that are bold, entrepreneurial, and as nimble as change itself. Hence this book. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them. Critical building blocks include: Motivation: Rallying colleagues to the challenge of busting bureaucracy Models: Leveraging the experience of organizations that have profitably challenged the bureaucratic status quo Mindsets: Escaping the industrial age thinking that frustrates progress Mobilization: Activating a pro-change coalition to hack outmoded management systems and processes Migration: Embedding the principles of humanocracy—ownership, markets, meritocracy, community, openness, experimentation, and paradox—in your organization's DNA If you've finally run out of patience with bureaucratic bullshit . . . If you want to build an organization that can outrun change . . . If you're committed to giving every team member the chance to learn, grow, and contribute . . . . . . then this book's for you. Whatever your role or title, Humanocracy will show you how to launch an unstoppable movement to equip and empower everyone in your organization to be their best and to do their best. The ultimate prize: an organization that's fit for the future and fit for human beings.

È difficile trovare qualcuno che sia disposto a difenderla. Eppure è una delle strutture sociali più diffuse del pianeta. La burocrazia. Nata nel secolo scorso, in e per un mondo che non esiste più, gli è sopravvissuta. E si fa sentire, purtroppo.Come se ne esce? Una possibilità è adottare quella che Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini, nel libro omonimo, chiamano Humanocracy. Le aziende "umanocratiche" esistono e sono già tra noi. Ne parlo in questa puntata.SEGUIMI SULinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/robertofiorettoIG: www.instagram.com/roberto_fiorettowww.counselingpost.it

Michele Zanini is the co-author of the Wall Street Journal Bestseller, Humanocracy. He is the co-founder of the Management Lab, where together with Gary Hamel, he helps forward-thinking organizations become more resilient, innovative and engaging places to work. Michele was previously a senior consultant at McKinsey & Company and a policy analyst at the RAND Corporation. His work has been featured in The Economist, Harvard Business Review, the Financial Times, and the Wall Street Journal. Michele joins the show to discuss how organizations have become so overburdened by bureaucracy and why new organizational models like those developed at Haier and Morningstar can be seen as socially dense markets. Tune in to this episode as we explore Industrial Age contracts, scalable freedom, the open source software movement and the continued need for management innovation. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/michele-zanini-2/      Key highlights we discussed: > Use case of overcoming bureaucracy and the authoritarian nature of organizations > The benefits of socially dense markets > Why freedom and control don't have to be trade-offs > The cultural reliance on hierarchical organizations > The need to consider management model innovation for the 21st century      To find out more about Michele's work:   > Twitter: https://twitter.com/michelezanini    > Website: https://www.humanocracy.com/    Other references and mentions:   > Simone Cicero, ‘Contracts and the Future of the Firm', 2021: https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/contracts-and-the-future-of-the-firm-3faf6ef27320  > Ronald Coase, The Nature of the Firm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm  > Buurtzorg: https://www.buurtzorg.com/ > Apache foundation: https://www.apache.org/    Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/   Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music   Recorded on 22 February 2022.

Er zijn volgens Hamel en Zanini veel redenen waarom een bureaucratie niet werkt. Bij zoveel motivatie waarom het niet werkt kwam de vraag in mij op, wat is er wel goed aan een bureaucratie? Tom legt in ons gesprek uit waar de bureaucratie vandaan komt en dat het wel degelijk een nut heeft in de publieke omgeving. Humanocracy is een interessant boek waarin je veel leert van voorbeelden uit de praktijk van bedrijven die het anders doen. Volgens Hamel en Zanini beter doen.Support the show: https://krant.nlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Guest Bio: Rita McGrath is a best-selling author,  sought-after advisor and speaker, and  longtime professor at Columbia Business School. Rita is one of the world's top experts on strategy and innovation and is consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50.  McGrath's recent book on strategic inflection points is Seeing Around Corners: How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2019). Rita is the author of four other books, including the best-selling The End of Competitive Advantage (Harvard Business Review Press, 2013). Since the onset of the pandemic, Rita has created workshops, strategy sessions and keynotes, applying her tools and frameworks to strategy under high levels of uncertainty to specific issues organizations are facing.  As Rui Barbas, the Chief Strategy Officer for Nestle USA said, “You were incredibly insightful and, despite the virtual setting, there was lots of engagement and comments from leaders sharing eye-opening observations and building on your examples throughout. You delivered the inspiration and illustration desired and it was exactly the right focus and challenge for this team. Appreciate your time throughout the process to align on content and delivery. The future-focus theme was the perfect close to our leadership summit.” Rita's work is focused on creating unique insights.  She has also founded Valize a companion company, dedicated to turning those insights into actionable capability.  You can find out more about Valize at www.valize.com. McGrath received her Ph.D. from the Wharton School (University of Pennsylvania) and has degrees with honors from Barnard College and the Columbia School of International and Public Affairs. She is active on all the main social media platforms, such as Twitter @rgmcgrath.  For more information, visit RitaMcGrath.com.   Social Media/ Websites: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ Twitter: @rgmcgrath Instagram: @ritamcgrathofficial Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/rgmcgrath Websites: https://ritamcgrath.com and valize.com Rita's Newsletter/ Articles Substack: https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ Medium: https://rgmcgrath.medium.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/thought-sparks-6787762418471755776/ Books Seeing Around Corners by Rita McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seeing-Around-Corners-Inflection-Business/dp/0358022339 The Entrepreneurial Mindset by Rita Gunther McGrath and Ian MacMillian https://www.amazon.co.uk/Entrepreneurial-Mindset-Continuously-Opportunity-Uncertainty/dp/0875848346 The End of Competitive Advantage by Rita Gunther McGrath https://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Competitive-Advantage-Strategy-Business/dp/1422172813 Disrupt Yourself by Whitney Johnson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disrupt-Yourself-New-Introduction-Relentless/dp/1633698785 Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People/dp/1633696022 Reimagining Capitalism by Rebecca Henderson https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reimagining-Capitalism-Business-Save-World/dp/0241379660 When More is Not Better by Roger L. Martin https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-More-Not-Better-Overcoming/dp/1647820065/ Being An Adult by Lucy Tobin https://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Adult-ultimate-getting-together-ebook/dp/B07GQ1KRTC/ Only The Paranoid Survive by Andy Grove https://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/dp/1861975139  Ula Ojiaku: My guest today is Dr. Rita McGrath. She's a best-selling author, a sought-after speaker and advisor and consistently ranked among the top 10 management thinkers in the world, including the #1 award for strategy by Thinkers50. In this episode, Rita talked about the concept of inflection points from her book ‘Seeing Around Corners' and how as leaders, we can train ourselves to spot these inflection points and act on the information we receive. She also talked about making complex things simple for the people we work with. I learnt a lot speaking with Rita and I'm sure you will find this conversation insightful as well. Thank you again for watching! It's an honor to have you on the show, Rita McGrath. Many, many thanks for joining us. Rita McGrath: Well, thank you Ula. It's a pleasure to be here. Ula Ojiaku: Great. Now, can you tell us about yourself? How did the Rita, Dr. Rita McGrath we know today evolve? Rita McGrath:  Well, it would have to start with my parents, of course. I mean, all great stories start with your parents. And so, my parents were both scientists. My mother was a Microbiologist, and my father was an Organic Chemist. And so, I grew up in a house where, you know, (if) a question couldn't be answered, you went and got the reference book and figured it out. And both, (had) incredible respect for science and for diligence. And, you know, the house was always full of books and lots of emphasis on learning. I wouldn't say we were, financially all that well-off – we weren't poor by any means. But it was, you know, there wasn't like a lot of money to spare, but there was always money for books, and there was always money for, you know, educational experiences and that kind of thing. So, that's the household I grew up in. So, my parents, when I was born, were both on the staff at the Yale Medical School. So, they were both researchers there. And then my dad in the late 60s, got an offer to go join this upstart, fledgling company that was at the cutting edge of all kinds of things in his field and that was Xerox Corporation. And he was very conflicted about leaving academia, but went off eventually to Xerox. So, we moved the family to Rochester, New York. So that's where I did most of my growing up. And my mother at that time, decided to stay home, more or less. And then she started a scientific translation business. So, she moved into an entrepreneurial career more than her scientific career. And then when it came time to go to college, I went to Barnard College in the City of New York. I'd always thought New York was an amazing place and was accepted there. So, went off to New York, did my Bachelor's and my Master's in Political Science and Public Policy. I was very interested in public policy and matters of social contract and those kinds of things. And then my first job was actually with the City of New York, I ran purchasing systems for government agencies. It doesn't sound very glamorous. But today, we would call it digital transformation. It was the very first wave of companies taking their operations in a digital form. And it was very exciting and I learned a lot. Then I got to the end of… the thing about public service is when you start, there's (this) unlimited sort of growth that can happen for a few years, and then it really just levels off. And you're never going to go beyond that. So, I kind of reached that headroom and decided to do something different. Ula Ojiaku:  Was it at that point that you decided to go for your PhD? Rita McGrath:  And that was one of the options I was considering. And my husband basically said, ‘look, if you get into a top five school, it's worth doing and if you don't, it's probably not.' But you have to think in that time, MBA programs were just exploding, and there'd been a lot of pressure on the administrators of MBA programs, to put PhD accredited faculty in front of their students. The big knock against the MBA at the time was, oh, they're just trade schools. You know, we've got some guy who ran an entire company comes in and talks and that's not really academically suitable. And so, there was a huge pressure for schools to find PhD accredited people-  that still exists (but) the market pressures has changed a lot. But when I was doing my PhD, it was pretty sure I would get a job if I managed to complete the degree. So that that gave me that extra input to do that. Ula Ojiaku:  Did you already have like children when you started the PhD? Rita McGrath: Yes Ula Ojiaku:  And how did you cope? Rita McGrath:  Our son was, how old was he? He would have been nine months old when I started my PhD program. Yeah. Ula Ojiaku: Wow, 9 months old. Rita McGrath: Oh, yeah, it was a real challenge. And I guess everybody manages those kinds of challenges in their own way. But yeah, it was a struggle because, you know, typical day would be you know, get up, get the baby to daycare or wherever and then do school or whatever I had to do that day. And then it was sort of pick them up. By the time I had a second child it was pick them up, get them dinner, get them bedtime, get them story, and then I'll be back at my desk at nine o'clock at night, trying to do what I needed to do. So, it was a new turn. It was tough. It was difficult years. I mean, joyful years though but it was just hard to fit everything in. Ula Ojiaku:  I can imagine. I mean, although I'm thinking of starting my PhD (studies), my children aren't that small but I do remember the time (they were), you know, I was still working full time. So, the challenge is you'd go to work and then come back to work. I mean, to another type of work. And then when they go to bed, the work continues. Yeah, it's interesting. Rita McGrath: Quite exhausting. Ula Ojiaku: You can say that. I'm so glad they're not in diapers anymore. So, it's baby steps, we are getting there. So, can we go on to your book, “Seeing Around Corners, How to Spot Inflection Points in Business Before They Happen”. I'd like to start from an unusual place in the book. I started from the dedication page, and you know, reading everything, and I noticed that, you referred to a conversation, one of the last conversations you had with your mother. Could you tell us about that? Rita McGrath:  Oh sure. She was well, at the time, she was quite ill, she had sarcoma in her lung, and she was quite ill. It's a horrible disease, and we haven't got any real treatments for it. So, the recommendation is you do chemo and that really knocks you out. So, she was quite ill and sort of migrating between the chair and the couch and the chair and the couch. And in one of those conversations, she just said ‘I want you to know I'm proud of you. And I've had a good life and I'm prepared for whatever comes next.' And I thought that was lovely of her to say and I thought in that moment to pass it on to all these other women. And you know you bring up motherhood and being a working woman and all those complicated emotions that come with that because there seems to be guilt around every corner you know, if you're not at home full time, oh you're a terrible mom. And if you're not at work full time, you're a terrible worker. I just I think so many of those things are just designed to twist us up into little balls. And when I look at my own mother's experience - she was a working woman… I grew up but I think I'm third or fourth generation working woman so it never even occurred to me that wouldn't be possible. But I think what often is missing is this validation, you know that for women who are trying to you know make their way professionally and be great, responsible parents and do all these other things that often there's a sense of a lack of self-worth you know, ‘oh, I'm not doing enough.' The more I hear that… Ula Ojiaku:  I feel like that some… most days I feel like that… Rita McGrath: Believe me, you are doing enough Ula Ojiaku:  Sometimes I ask my children, am I a good mom? Rita McGrath:  I think part of it too is we, and when I say we, I mean baby boomer mothers and maybe a little younger. We got ourselves all tangled up in this if it's not like organic, hand-processed  lima beans with you know, organic succotash, mixed in you know, it's not good baby food. Honestly, Gerber's exists to provide perfectly nutritious food for really young babies and they've been doing it for decades and you can trust that and if it makes your life easier, go with it. Ula Ojiaku:  Thank you! Rita McGrath: You know, I think we I think we get ourselves all tossed up in like, what does good mean? I mean, honestly, the kids don't mind you know? I mean, they'd celebrate if it was chicken finger night. Ula Ojiaku:  Let's go to the book. You know, because in your book you said you it's about how to spot inflections before they happen in business. Can you give us examples of, you know, businesses that had these inflection points occur, and they failed to recognize it and what was the impact? Rita McGrath:  Sure, let's take one that is quite sad to me, which is Intel. And Intel built its, well, Intel went through a major inflection point, in fact, the originator of the concept was Andy Grove, who was their former CEO. And he talked about his inflection points in his book, Only the Paranoid Survive, which is really a brilliant, brilliant book. And one of the reasons I wrote my book was that very little had been done since his book on that topic. And Grove built this incredible company, Intel. And they were making microprocessor chips. And they were very, very powerful, very fast chips. And so, the assumptions inside Intel's business model was, what customers were going to pay for was faster, faster, faster, more computation power, more and more powerful. But what they didn't really think about was energy consumption. And as the world went more mobile… so the Intel product is the PC, and the PC, the desktop PC remains firmly plugged into the wall. And then later, we make PC chips that maybe have slightly lower power consumption to power PCs, but it's still that notion of power, you know, and I think the inflection point that caught Intel by surprise, to some extent was, this movement towards mobile, where the vast majority of chips being made were these completely different architecture chips by  companies like ARM and you know, and companies like that, which, from their inception, recognized that low power was the way to go. Then they weren't very powerful in the sense of speed, which is what Intel was driving its business towards. But they were powerful in the sense of ubiquitous low power, long battery life, that kind of thing. And I think that's an example of the kind of assumption that can cause a company to get into trouble, when the underlying shift in the business environment says, ‘wait a minute, this thing you've been building all this time may not be what is needed by the marketplace.' Ula Ojiaku:  That's interesting. So, it brings me to the point of, the points you made about, you know, the indicators, the early warnings, and you mentioned the concept of you know lagging, current and leading indicators. And there was an emphasis in your book on, you know, leading indicators. Could you tell us a bit about that? Rita McGrath:  Sure. Well, so leading indicators are today's information about tomorrow's possibilities. And what we unfortunately rely on a lot in business is lagging indicators - so profits, performance, you know, ROI, all those things are lagging some kind of decision that you made a long time ago. So, the concept of leading indicators is to try to get business leaders to think about what would have to be true, you know, before I was able to make a certain decision, what are the leading indicators? So, an example would be back in the 90s, computer scientists all over the world realized that come the year 2000, from the turn of the millennium, that the way computer programs had been programmed, was only two digits for the year. And so, when the year went to zero-zero, computers, were going to think it was 1900 and this was going to be terrible. Because they all get out of sync, you know, and planes would drop out of the sky. You're gonna become unstable, and you'll all need to move to Montana and stuff … I don't know if you can remember this. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah, the Y2K bug… Rita McGrath: Oh my goodness…! Ula Ojiaku: It was a big sensation. Yeah… Rita McGrath: Apocalyptic – remember?! And yet, when the big moment came the year 2000. What happened? Well, nothing happened. Why did nothing happen? We looked at that early warning, and we said, whoa, if that happens, it's bad. And then so companies, prodded by their accounting firms, prodded by other security considerations invested billions in correcting that flaw. And so, that's an example of an early warning. And there are a couple of things to understand about early warning. So, the first important thing is, the measure of a good early warning is not, did it predict what happened. The measure of a good leading indicator is, did it help you prepare for what might happen? And so, I think that's a really important distinction, because we oftentimes, oh, you that didn't predict this or that. But that's not the point. The point is, did it help you think more broadly about what might happen so that you could be prepared? So, I think that's the first thing. The second thing to remember about leading indicators is they're often not quantitative in the way that we like to think about quantitative things. They're often qualitative. They often take the form of stories. And they often come from what are called unrepresentative parts of your mental ecosystem. So, you know, it's that person on the loading dock (saying to themselves), ‘this is, well, that's weird, a customer never asked for that before', or the person answering the phone, you know, in headquarters going, ‘Well, I don't understand why they need that information…' You know, it's those little anomalies or things that depart from business as usual, that are often the weak signals that you need to be paying attention to. Ula Ojiaku:  So, can you give us an example where you mean, I mean, of how we can go about choosing good leading indicators? Rita McGrath:  Well, in the book, I describe a technique that I use, which is you take a couple of uncertainties and juxtapose them on each other. And that gives you four or more you can do this for as many as you like, stories from the future, possibly a future that we could live in. And then depending on which one you want to think about, you say, ‘okay, I'm gonna write a headline as if it came from a newspaper story about that scenario. And I'm gonna work backwards and say, what has to be true for that headline to emerge.' So, take an example that's playing out right now, chronic and accelerating decline in birth rates in the United States. People are just deciding not to enlarge their families or not to start their families at all. And for very good reasons, you know, the level of social support for families is very low. Mostly women are bearing the burden. And very often women are the ones that make a large part of the decision about whether the family is going to grow or not. And so, we're facing a real baby bust. Well, if that's true, and we follow that along, well, what are some things that would be early warnings or indicators of what that world will be like? Well, you'll see a decline of working people relative to retired people, or people needing assistance, you'll see, you know, fewer kids with more resources to support them. So, the kind of baby Prince phenomena we saw in China. There are lots of things you can kind of work through. But once you say, ‘okay, I see a world with a million fewer children three years from now, than we would have expected well, okay, what now working backward? What does that tell us we need to be paying attention to today? Ula Ojiaku:  Yes, yes. That's a great example. And I wonder, though, so given all, you know, the research that has led to, and your experience as well, consulting with, you know, most of these large organizations, the case studies, you've come to witness and all that, what would you, what would be your advice to leaders of such organizations, you know, in terms of how they can better prepare themselves or equip themselves to recognize these inflection points, and lead effectively? Rita McGrath:  Well, I think the first principle is you have to be discovery driven. In other words, you have to be curious about what's going on. And if you're the kind of leader who (when) someone brings you a piece of information, and instead of treating it like a gift, you're like, oh no, you don't understand that's wrong. That's not the way the world works. If you're dismissive of information people are bringing you that's very dangerous. Because the information you need is not going to come from your lieutenants at headquarters, it's going to come from that guy on the loading dock. So, I think you want to think about establishing some kind of information flows, that go directly from where the phenomena are happening to your desk. So, as an example, a company I really admire is the German metal services company Klockner. And their CEO, Gisbert Ruehl was taking them through a digital transformation. And his big concern was not that they meant it, right? But that his lieutenants, his middle manager, cohort, would be so expert, and so experienced at the way business was, that they would just shut down these digital efforts. And he was very, very concerned about that. He said, well, I need some way of making my message heard directly to the people that are on the frontlines and I also need a way of hearing from them what's going on. So, he implemented Yammer, called non-hierarchical communication. And the deal was anybody in the company that had something he needed to know should feel comfortable sending him a note. And I'm told, I don't know this for a fact that I'm told that at headquarters, he had his instance of Yammer set up so that the lower the hierarchical level of the person, the higher it came in his newsfeed. Ula Ojiaku: Oh, wow. Rita McGrath: So, you know, I can talk to my lieutenants, anytime. Information I need is in the, you know, 24-year-old person who's just joined us with an engineering degree, who's looking at our manufacturing process for screwdrivers and saying, ‘Why do you do it that way? There must be a better way of doing this…' That's the information I really need and he set up a whole system to try to get that information to him, to himself. Ula Ojiaku:  Would you say there's a typical kind of leader with, you know, some certain characteristics that's best equipped to spot the inflection point, and you know, kind of lead the charge and get the organizations in line? Rita McGrath:  You know, I think it's more of the behavior, it's not the characteristics. So, I've seen charismatic, attractive, you know, movie star type CEOs be good at this. I've seen people you look at and you go ‘Really? He looks kind of like he slept in his clothes all night.' I've seen those people be good at it. So, you know, I think the differentiation is this, this hunger for new information, this curiosity, this relentless… ‘tell me again…' and ‘why was that and why was that?' It is this urgent need to really learn what's going on. And then and then putting yourself in the, in the context. So, one of the people I'm working with right now is a brilliant retail CEO, and everything. And one of the things he would do before hiring anybody into his senior team, is he would spend a day or two walking the stores, you know, and in his explanation to me was, ‘I want to see how they react to the stores. I want to see how they treat the people working in stores. I want to see what they notice, you know, I want to see if they notice that there's a thing out of array and I want to see how they are with me, like if they spend their whole two days in store visits, sucking up to me - that's not somebody I need, you know. And so, I think the best leaders along those lines are people who are relentlessly curious, bring people around them who are diverse, you know, you don't just want echo chambers of themselves. Ula Ojiaku:  True, true. You don't want ‘yes' men if you really want to make an impact really. Yeah, and how can I, as a person, train myself to also recognize these inflection points. Rita McGrath:  Well, it depends what the inflection point is. So, if it's a question of, you've been making nice steady progress in your career, and now you've hit some kind of ceiling and you just feel you're not growing or developing any more, then that choice is really okay, I need to… the way Whitney Johnson would put this, she's written a great book on this, “Disrupt Yourself”, right? You go up this S curve, then you need to make the decision if you're going to take on the J curve, right, which is the part below the S curve before you get into the next round of learning. So, that's a personal decision, really only you can make a decision like that. Then there are the cases where inflection points are thrust upon you. So you lose a job, your spouse has some setback, a family member has an urgent need that makes whatever you were doing before impossible. I mean, there's all kinds of outside things that can happen to you. Ula Ojiaku: Yeah… Rita McGrath: And I think the best way to try to look at those is. ‘is this a slingshot to a better future, potentially?' And you know, how many people have you talked to who got fired, and some years later say, ‘that was the best thing that ever happened to me, it shook me out of my complacency. It made me think differently.' And so, I think a lot of times, you know, we, it's very comfortable (staying) stuck in our ruts. And sometimes it takes a bit of a jolt to get us out of that. Ula Ojiaku:  That's a great one. Can I just ask you about so it's not really about your book, Seeing Around Corners, but this one is about the Entrepreneurial Mindset? Just one quick question. Because there's a quote, in your book, that book that says, you know, “the huge part of becoming an entrepreneurial leader is learning to simplify complexity, so that your co-workers can act with self-confidence.” That quote, it made me kind of be more conscious about, am I really making things simpler for my co-workers instead of, you know, rather than to enable us, you know, achieve the best that we could as a group? So why did you, make that quote and associate it with an Entrepreneurial Mindset? Rita McGrath:  Well, because if you make things complicated for people, there's maybe three responses, right? One is they'll start on whatever they start on, which is kind of random. And maybe they finish it, and maybe they don't, but it's really now you're leaving it to chance. Because if you give people more to digest than they can manage, you're going to get back some fraction of it. So that's one thing. Second thing that happens is, if it's too complex, a lot of times people will pick what they want to do, not have anything to do with the agenda that you want to set for the organization. And the third thing is there's just a laziness that comes from having things be complex. I know for myself, when I've had to do strategy statements for myself, or my business, it takes a long, long time to get it done into a few simple things. And each word has to mean something. So, as an example, some years back, I started a sister company. It's called Valize. And the strategy really is to its mission, its purpose for me, is to help organizations create innovation and transformation capability as the basis for shared prosperity. And that sounds really simple. That sounds really kind of ‘duh, that's not so grand, but I mean, the hours it took to get to that simplicity of statement. And then once you've got something like that, you can go back and you could say, okay, well, here's the thing that I'm being asked to do or think I'm thinking of, does it build capability? Yes. No. Does it build shared prosperity? Yes, no. Does it help organizations to help themselves? Yes, no. And it sorts out a lot of stuff means a lot of stuff we could do. But there are only a few things that really fit into that sweet spot of shared capability. So, having that simplification allows you to clear out a lot of the …, there are always wonderful options that you got to do things, right? And it's a question of abundance, you've usually got more great options than you could possibly exercise. So, picking the best ones is the challenge. Ula Ojiaku:  Wow, wow. I'm going to listen to this part again. You've mentioned some books already, like Andy Grove's, Only the Paranoid, I mean, Only the Paranoid survive. And you've mentioned the book, Disrupt Yourself… In addition to these books, and your wonderful suite of books, what other books would you recommend to the audience that you believe have influenced you that you'd recommend to the listeners that would help them you know, learn more about this topic? Rita McGrath: Oh, that's hard, because there's so many. Well, I love Safi Bahcall's Loonshots. I think that's a brilliant, brilliant book. And it really gets to the heart of how innovation actually happens rather than how we think it happens. I rather like Gary Hamel's and Michele Zanini's book, Humanocracy which has the basic question, you know, if you look at Instagram, or Twitter or any of these social platforms, you see these people who are just brilliant. I mean, they're creating incredibly creative stuff. And then we put them inside companies. And we insist that they do things by the rule, and we block all the creativity out of them. So, why do we do that? You know, I think that's a really great one. I'm very taken with Rebecca Henderson's, Re-imagining Capitalism in a World on Fire. Very, very brilliant. Roger Martin, When More is not Better. Just recently had a Julie Lythcott-Haims on my fireside chat program, which is and she's got a book called Your Turn, How to be an Adult”, which is, on a personal level, absolutely fascinating - really good book. I like Peter Sim's, Little Bets. You know, they're just so many I mean, I wouldn't even know where to where to start. Those are the ones that are sort of top of mind at the moment. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. scribbling away as you're talking, and yeah, these all these would be in the show notes with the links to them. So that's great. Now, how can the audience reach you? If they want to, you know follow your work. Rita McGrath: The best place to start is my website, which is really ritamcgrath.com, that's easy. I have columns that I write for. They're currently going up on substack and medium. If you just search my name and or medium, you'll find me there. I do weekly, LinkedIn post, which goes to subscribers on LinkedIn. Also, that's all sort of good places to start. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. Are you on social media? Rita McGrath:  Oh, yes. So yes. I'm on Twitter @RGMcGrath. And I'm on LinkedIn. Okay. I'm not on Facebook so much. But I have put things I post there, but I'm not really on it very much. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay. All right. That's, I mean, thanks for those. Now, let's wrap up any ask of the audience first? Rita McGrath:  I think we're in a remarkable moment, right now, you know, we've had so many of our previous habits and assumptions disrupted, that I think it would be a shame to lose, to lose all that and just go back to the way things were. So, I think it's an opportunity to reflect and to really think about, what kind of future do we want to build now that so many of our assumptions and institutions have been challenged, and we learned whole new tricks, we learned whole new ways to do things. Let's not just snap back to the way it was, let's think about inventing better. Rita McGrath:  Really, I think there's going to be great opportunity coming out of this current crisis and those who are thinking ahead will benefit from it. Ula Ojiaku:  Okay, great. Well, Rita, thank you so much for your time, and it's been a pleasure again, having you on the show. Rita McGrath: Thank you very much.

*This episode is an excerpt taken from our 2020 interview. Bureaucracy kills innovation. So say Michele Zanini and Gary Hamel in their book “Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them.” They argue that relying on outdated processes and capabilities, legacy systems and hierarchical decision-making hamstring growth and stifle workforce success. To overcome these challenges, they also provide practical guidance to create organizations that deliver business results and better serve the people inside them.  

Today I am talking about Human Resources and their true effect on the culture of an organization. What does it really mean to be truly HUMAN in a corporate setting? I reference Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini's book Humanocracy and also Marcus Buckingham and Ashley Goodall's book Nine Lies About Work in today's episode. How might our corporations shift if we celebrate the heart and soul and spirit inside the corpus?

When's the last time you did your best work rather than your busy work? And how do you reduce your BMI? Not Body Mass Index. Bureaucratic Mass Index. Michele Zanini is co-founder of the Management Lab, a former McKinsey Partner and co-author of the global bestseller Humanocrocy – Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them (Gary Hamel & Michele Zanini). Whatever your role or title, Michele shows it is possible to launch an unstoppable movement to equip and empower everyone in your organization to be their best and to do their best. The ultimate prize: an organization that's fit for the future and fit for human beings. Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ainakin omassa työelämäkuplassani termi itseohjautuvuus ja siihen liittyvät teoriat saapuivat työelämään hyökyaallon lailla 2-3 vuotta sitten. Nyt kun aikaa on kulunut jo tovi, on paikallaan tarkistaa savun hälvettyä kytkennät: mistä siitä on kyse sekä teoriassa että käytännön tasolla, miten se ilmenee arjen työelämässä, mitä vaaditaan johdolta ja mitä se tarkoittaa työntekijälle? Entä minkälaisia myyttejä ja väärinymmärryksiä itseohjautuvuuteen liittyy ja mitä hyötyä siitä on? Työelämän itseohjautuvuuden syövereitä lähetyksessä kanssani pohtimassa uuden työn puuhanainen, VTM ja yksi Filosofian Akatemian perustajista, Karoliina Jarenko ja Vertia Oy:n toimitusjohtaja Topi Jokinen. Linkit: https://www.karoliinajarenko.fi https://www.linkedin.com/in/karoliina-jarenko-62143a2/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMC68725XIfVpKohsuB8vbw https://www.instagram.com/karoliina_jarenko/ https://www.instagram.com/vertiafin/ https://vertia.fi https://www.linkedin.com/in/topi-jokinen/ Kirjat: Reinventing Organisations, Frederic Laloux Humanocracy, Gary Hamel, Michele Zanini

We are both honored and delighted to be speaking to Randy Pennington today! Randy is very well-known in our industry. Not only is he a great thinker, but he is also someone who can look into implementing strategies that positively impact your organization, your business, or yourself. He is a leading voice in our industry who has been involved with many major industry associations and he has also written several books.  We are sure you will enjoy our conversation with Randy Pennington today! Randy Pennington's bio Randy Pennington helps leaders deliver positive results in a world of endless uncertainty and change. Randy's original insights are grounded in a unique blend of solid research and continuing hands-on work with leaders and organizations in various industries. Whether you need a keynote presentation, facilitation, a strategic workshop, or in-depth consulting and advisory support, Randy's ability to develop solutions that work in your world provide a catalyst for delivering results. Randy is the author of the award-winning books Results Rule! and Make Change Work. His insights have appeared in Fast Company, Entrepreneur, the New York Times in numerous newspapers and many professional/trade association journals, and contributor to the Huffington Post. His expertise has made him a respected guest commentator with appearances on CNN, PBS, Fox News, the ABC Radio Network, and the BBC. His background is a unique blend of line, staff, and consulting experience ranging from hourly employee to senior management. He holds a Bachelors and Masters Degree in Psychology and has completed Postgraduate work in Organization Administration and Management. Along the way, Randy has been a senior executive in a start-up mental health facility, an HR professional in a 25,000 employee government agency, a CFO of a multi-million dollar professional services firm, Chairman of the Board for a 17-million-dollar non-profit, Chairman of the Board for a multi-million dollar foundation,  Entrepreneur, Adjunct professor in Southern Methodist University's Edwin L. Cox Business Leadership Center's programming for Cox MBA students since 1991, earning 21 Teaching Excellence Awards, and inducted into the National Speakers Association Speaker Hall of Fame and is a recipient of their prestigious Cavett Award. No more new normal Randy feels that there is no more new normal. There is only a new next.  Change models For Randy, all change models go back to the psychologist, Kurt Lewin. He was considered the father of social psychology and developed one of the first models around change. He said that to make change happen, you must first unfreeze the thing you want to change. Then, make the change and refreeze it. To get to normal When following Lewin's model, one would assume that to get to normal, we have to re-freeze. What happens, however, if you never get to the point of refreezing? When things are changing all the time, there is never the opportunity to become completely normal. Frustration for businesses and organizations Part of the frustration that we have all been feeling in our businesses and organizations is that almost as soon as we get something changed, we need to change it again. Or, something else needs to get changed. A better mindset A better mindset for everyone today is to accept that we may never get back to normal. The closest thing we're going to get to normal is change happening faster than it's ever happened before. Threats In the strategic planning groups that Randy has been doing since COVID, he has noticed that everyone takes the threat piece way more seriously than before when they do the SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats) analysis. That means that people are now thinking more realistically about threats. Things that Randy Pennington has learned from COVID Something that Randy Pennington has learned from COVID is that we have to think about probabilities and possibilities a little differently, and we need to be ready to move quickly. Flourishing and surviving In the meetings industry, we are not pivoting. We are expanding and accelerating. The more we can anticipate, the better our chances for flourishing and surviving in the ever-changing world. Small business owners Small business owners need to ensure that they always have enough cash in reserve to sleep well at night.  Live meetings Randy is sure that in our industry, we will go back to live meetings. They will also have a hybrid or virtual component, however. Challenges for meetings and events The pandemic has changed everything about how we do what we do. Two questions that we need to ask regarding meetings and events are: “What if?” and “What next?”.  The purpose of meetings The purpose of meetings is to create connections, educate, and engage, and that never changes.  Randy Pennington's thoughts on preparing to survive and thrive Meeting and event planners need to cultivate new skills to survive and thrive. They need enough curiosity about new things to allow them to see the connections before they occur, according to Randy Pennington. The levels of change The first level of change is to adapt. The second level is to anticipate. Level three change is pursuing things that will be different and make a difference. Another level, which Randy looks at as Level 0, is about the changes we should ignore. Talent matters Talent matters, so organizations need to be sure that they provide a space where the best and brightest would want to work. More ideas In a world of uncertainty, we need more ideas, because we have to deal with experiences we have never had before right now. Forced collisions A way for business owners to get new ideas is to create forced collisions in the business. That means they have to put people together who might not normally go well together to work on a problem where more than one perspective is needed. Training the next generation Training for the next generation in the industry should focus on cultivating qualities like curiosity, collaboration, and cooperation. Also, effective communication, tapping into the things that make all of us the same and dealing with cross-cultural issues.  Earning your seat at the table Although the logistics of meetings are crucial, they are not the priority. You first need to earn your seat at the table. Learn to think like CEOs, CFOs, and VPs of Marketing think. Focus on what they focus on.  Connect with Eric On LinkedIn On Facebook On Instagram On Website Connect with Randy Pennington On Website Results Rule with Randy Pennington group on Facebook Books mentioned Outrageous Empowerment by Ron Lovett  (Catch Ron Lovett's interview with Eric HERE!) Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini

This week on The Good Practice Podcast, we're removing power dynamics and stripping away management layers with the return of our book club. Emerald Works CEO John Yates and Emerald Publishing CEO Vicky Williams join Ross G and Owen to discuss Humanocracy, by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini. We discuss: the challenge the book presents to bureaucracy a human-centred approach to organisation design the difficulty of putting humanocracy into practice. Show notes Humanocracy is available now from all good bookshops. For more from us, including access to our back catalogue of podcasts, visit emeraldworks.com. There, you'll also find details of our award winning performance support toolkit, our off-the-shelf e-learning, and our custom work. Vicky referenced the book How to Lead a Quest, by Jason Fox. Ross referenced episode 231 — Should we defund HR? You can find it online (emeraldworks.com/resources/podcast/231-should-we-defund-hr) or in your podcast feed. For more on the emergence of hierarchies at Wikipedia, see: Lerner, J., & Lomi, A. (2017). The third man: Hierarchy formation in Wikipedia. Applied network science, 2(1), 1-30. Connect with our speakers If you'd like to share your thoughts on this episode, connect with our speakers on Twitter: Ross Garner - @RossGarnerEW Owen Ferguson - @OwenFerguson Vicky Williams - @Emerald_VW John Yates - @JYLearn

Today I talked with Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini about their book Humanocracy: Creating Organizations As Amazing As the People Inside Them (HBR, 2020). This episode attacks the way bureaucracies are “innovation-phobic” and “soul crushing.” How can motivation, productivity and innovation be radically enhanced? By dismantling traditional power structures within large companies, giving employees the opportunity to become “micropreneurs.” Tying compensation to contribution and enabling true empowerment are the ways to go. Gary Hamel is on the faculty of the London Business School and has been hailed by the Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker. Michele Zanini is, along with Hamel, the cofounder of the Management Lab. An alumnus of McKinsey & Company, Zanini has a degree from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Dan Hill, PhD, is the author of eight books and leads Sensory Logic, Inc. (https://www.sensorylogic.com). To check out his related “Dan Hill's EQ Spotlight” blog, visit https://emotionswizard.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today I talked with Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini about their book Humanocracy: Creating Organizations As Amazing As the People Inside Them (HBR, 2020). This episode attacks the way bureaucracies are “innovation-phobic” and “soul crushing.” How can motivation, productivity and innovation be radically enhanced? By dismantling traditional power structures within large companies, giving employees the opportunity to become “micropreneurs.” Tying compensation to contribution and enabling true empowerment are the ways to go. Gary Hamel is on the faculty of the London Business School and has been hailed by the Wall Street Journal as the world's most influential business thinker. Michele Zanini is, along with Hamel, the cofounder of the Management Lab. An alumnus of McKinsey & Company, Zanini has a degree from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Dan Hill, PhD, is the author of eight books and leads Sensory Logic, Inc. (https://www.sensorylogic.com). To check out his related “Dan Hill's EQ Spotlight” blog, visit https://emotionswizard.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

“We are wired to want simple” - Jen GreshamJennifer Gresham is the executive director of Work for Humanity, an organization that is making bold moves to fundamentally rethink the nature of employment and solve one of the biggest challenges the US economy faces today, rebuilding the middle class. If this sounds like a big, audacious goal, well it is. And you will hear why Jen is the perfect person to tackle it. Jen is a graduate of the Air Force Academy and a scientist with a background in human performance. In this episode we trace her career from her early days as assistant chief scientist in the Air Force to her bold decision to leave the Air Force just a few years short of retirement. We also explore her journey from successful blogger and business coach helping thousands of professionals achieve their career aspirations. Jen shares her ups and downs along the way and what finally led her to found Work for Humanity. In this episode you will learn about why we need to embrace complexity, risk taking and why you should bet on yourself. The future is female, let's get started!Have a question or comment? Email us at themanifista@gmail.com.Topics discussed in this episode:Embracing complexity and being comfortable not knowingWe often don't solve a complex problem, we evolve with a complex problem.There's untapped human potential, which is something I'm really interested in.We need the intellectual and emotional capacity for complexity, because we are so wired to want simple.The importance of being comfortable not knowing and having to experiment and find your way. Work for Humanity and envisioning a better future Income inequality is the highest it's ever been in 50 years.My vision for the future of work is that everyone has a job that enriches them financially, intellectually, emotionally, socially and spiritually.We need to upskill the workers and employers in small businesses, so they can start to work together as a strategic team.Our system is inhumane by design. We all need to really understand that we are part of that system, and therefore we are part of the problem. Resources Mentioned Jennifer Gresham (link)The report: Reimagining Inclusive Economies (link)Work for Humanity (link)Peter Diamandis (link)Winners Take All by Anand Giridharadas (link)Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini (link)

In Episode 32, Michele Zanini, author of “Humanocracy,” joins us to discuss the evolution of management. We examine what makes traditional firms less resilient than their employees, why changing management is not only good for companies, but for the whole of society, and what this new paradigm looks like. We ask ourselves how we can build companies based on new principles, like markets, ownership, and paradox, to out-grow our bureaucracies already.The episode was recorded in English.The episode in a nutshell: Human's favorite quote from Humanocracy is “Bureaucracy is like pornography; it's hard to find anyone who'll defend it, but there's a lot of it about”, Mary-Jane enjoys a principle-based approach that goes on a structural level; and Michele thinks we need to stop copying what others do and experiment ourselves – revolutionary ideas and evolutionary change.Shownotes:Get the book and the course on Humanocracy here: https://www.humanocracy.com/Follow Michele on his blog for management insights: https://www.michelezanini.com/Beyond Theory Y (HBR, 1970): https://hbr.org/1970/05/beyond-theory-y

Michele Zanini author of "Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them" by The Best Business Minds

Weg met de bureaucratie is het betoog in het boek Humanocracy van Gary Hamel en Michele Zanini, maak ruimte voor zelfmanagement, maak mensen mede-eigenaar en splits je bedrijf op in kleine bedrijven.  Het lijkt logisch, bureaucratie daar willen we van af. Mensen die worden behandeld als productiemiddel. De enige weg omhoog is via management. Er is een duidelijke scheiding tussen management en de mensen die het werk doen. Bedrijven die steeds meer op een grote tanker gaan lijken en waardoor het koers veranderen van de koers traag gaat. De top van het bedrijf (het management) verdient veel geld op basis van positie en niet op basis van de bijdrage. De mensen die het werk doen hebben weinig zeggenschap en vindt het plezier vooral buiten werktijd. Door het financiële belang willen managers meer mensen aansturen en telkens naar een hoger niveau in het bedrijf. Als manager ben je veel bezig met het verdedigen van je eigen positie. De manier om meer geld en aanzien te verdienen is hogerop komen in het bedrijf. Waar werkt bureaucratie wel Er zijn volgens Hamel en Zanini veel redenen waarom een bureaucratie niet werkt. Bij zoveel motivatie waarom het niet werkt kwam de vraag in mij op, wat is er wel goed aan een bureaucratie? Tom legt in ons gesprek uit waar de bureaucratie vandaan komt en dat het wel degelijk een nut heeft in de publieke omgeving. Humanocracy is een interessant boek waarin je veel leert van voorbeelden uit de praktijk van bedrijven die het anders doen. Volgens Hamel en Zanini beter doen. Gemiste kans Het duurde even voordat ik duidelijk had wat ik miste in dit boek. Twee punten: Hamel en Zanini schrijven dat het humanocracy beter is voor de mens Als werknemer hebben we weinig plezier, vrijheid en invloed in een bureaucratie. Om te laten zien dat het anders kan schrijven ze uitgebreid over twee mooie voorbeelden Nucor en Haier. Om te laten zien dat het humanocracy model werkt wordt er gekeken vanuit het economische oogpunt, het gaat om het financiele resultaat, meer omzet, groeien, meer winst. De winstdeling wordt gebruikt om meer uit de mensen te halen. Terwijl we uit het boek Drive hebben geleerd dat geld nauwelijks een rol speelt in de motivatie van mensen en zelfs tegendraads kan werken. Telkens weer wordt benadrukt dat deze bedrijven het beter doen (financieel) dan de markt. Wat ik mis is laat zien hoeveel beter de mensen zich voelen in een bedrijf waar het om de mense draait waar zelfamangement is ingevoerd.In het laatste deel van het boek leggen Hamel en Zanini uit hoe je Humanocracy invoert. In de laatste twee hoofdstukken gaat het over hacking, van onderaf bureaucratie uitroeien. Terwijl bij de voorbeelden die in het boek worden genoemd hebben de ondernemer of een manager de handdoek opgepakt en het bedrijf helemaal anders ingericht, voor de innovatie, klant, medewerker. Daar is juiste de heldere visie en doorzettingskracht van een persoon die alles aan het rollen heeft gebracht. Niets van onderaf. Zelfs bij het voorbeeld van Michelin in het eerste hoofstuk in dit deel is er een manager die het in gang zet en wordt vrijgemaakt om de verandering door te voeren. Waarbij hij op zoek gaat naar mensen die open staan voor de verandering. De 7 principes van een humanocracy EigenaarschapMeritocratieMarktenCommunityOpenheidExperimenteren Paradox  In deze Boekencast aflevering bespreken we de principes meritocratie, community en paradox. Lees het boek voor meer uitleg over deze en de andere vier principes. Luister Beluister hier ons gesprek waarin het over het onstaan van bureaucratie, waarom jet het niet wilt in een bedrijf, de voorbeelden dat het anders kan en meer. In een ruim half uur delen wij dit boek met jou. Een half uur met kennis die je tot je neemt terwijl je wandelt, loopt of rijd bijvoorbeeld. Leerpunten  Een aantal belangrijke dingen die ik geleerd heb uit dit boek zijn: Wanneer je grote bureaucratische bedrijven opdeeld in vele kleine bedr...

Weg met de bureaucratie is het betoog in het boek Humanocracy van Gary Hamel en Michele Zanini, maak ruimte voor zelfmanagement, maak mensen mede-eigenaar en splits je bedrijf op in kleine bedrijven.  Het lijkt logisch, bureaucratie daar willen we van af. Mensen die worden behandeld als productiemiddel. De enige weg omhoog is via management. Er is een duidelijke scheiding tussen management en de mensen die het werk doen. Bedrijven die steeds meer op een grote tanker gaan lijken en waardoor het koers veranderen van de koers traag gaat. De top van het bedrijf (het management) verdient veel geld op basis van positie en niet op basis van de bijdrage. De mensen die het werk doen hebben weinig zeggenschap en vindt het plezier vooral buiten werktijd. Door het financiële belang willen managers meer mensen aansturen en telkens naar een hoger niveau in het bedrijf. Als manager ben je veel bezig met het verdedigen van je eigen positie. De manier om meer geld en aanzien te verdienen is hogerop komen in het bedrijf. Waar werkt bureaucratie wel Er zijn volgens Hamel en Zanini veel redenen waarom een bureaucratie niet werkt. Bij zoveel motivatie waarom het niet werkt kwam de vraag in mij op, wat is er wel goed aan een bureaucratie? Tom legt in ons gesprek uit waar de bureaucratie vandaan komt en dat het wel degelijk een nut heeft in de publieke omgeving. Humanocracy is een interessant boek waarin je veel leert van voorbeelden uit de praktijk van bedrijven die het anders doen. Volgens Hamel en Zanini beter doen. Gemiste kans Het duurde even voordat ik duidelijk had wat ik miste in dit boek. Twee punten: Hamel en Zanini schrijven dat het humanocracy beter is voor de mens Als werknemer hebben we weinig plezier, vrijheid en invloed in een bureaucratie. Om te laten zien dat het anders kan schrijven ze uitgebreid over twee mooie voorbeelden Nucor en Haier. Om te laten zien dat het humanocracy model werkt wordt er gekeken vanuit het economische oogpunt, het gaat om het financiele resultaat, meer omzet, groeien, meer winst. De winstdeling wordt gebruikt om meer uit de mensen te halen. Terwijl we uit het boek Drive hebben geleerd dat geld nauwelijks een rol speelt in de motivatie van mensen en zelfs tegendraads kan werken. Telkens weer wordt benadrukt dat deze bedrijven het beter doen (financieel) dan de markt. Wat ik mis is laat zien hoeveel beter de mensen zich voelen in een bedrijf waar het om de mense draait waar zelfamangement is ingevoerd.In het laatste deel van het boek leggen Hamel en Zanini uit hoe je Humanocracy invoert. In de laatste twee hoofdstukken gaat het over hacking, van onderaf bureaucratie uitroeien. Terwijl bij de voorbeelden die in het boek worden genoemd hebben de ondernemer of een manager de handdoek opgepakt en het bedrijf helemaal anders ingericht, voor de innovatie, klant, medewerker. Daar is juiste de heldere visie en doorzettingskracht van een persoon die alles aan het rollen heeft gebracht. Niets van onderaf. Zelfs bij het voorbeeld van Michelin in het eerste hoofstuk in dit deel is er een manager die het in gang zet en wordt vrijgemaakt om de verandering door te voeren. Waarbij hij op zoek gaat naar mensen die open staan voor de verandering. De 7 principes van een humanocracy EigenaarschapMeritocratieMarktenCommunityOpenheidExperimenteren Paradox  In deze Boekencast aflevering bespreken we de principes meritocratie, community en paradox. Lees het boek voor meer uitleg over deze en de andere vier principes. Luister Beluister hier ons gesprek waarin het over het onstaan van bureaucratie, waarom jet het niet wilt in een bedrijf, de voorbeelden dat het anders kan en meer. In een ruim half uur delen wij dit boek met jou. Een half uur met kennis die je tot je neemt terwijl je wandelt, loopt of rijd bijvoorbeeld. Leerpunten  Een aantal belangrijke dingen die ik geleerd heb uit dit boek zijn: Wanneer je grote bureaucratische bedrijven opdeeld in vele kleine bedr...

Ron and Ed are honored to be joined this week by one of the foremost management thinkers of our time, Professor Gary Hamel. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and his co-author, Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them.

Ron and Ed are honored to be joined this week by one of the foremost management thinkers of our time, Professor Gary Hamel. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and his co-author, Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them.

Ron and Ed are honored to be joined this week by one of the foremost management thinkers of our time, Professor Gary Hamel. In Humanocracy, Gary Hamel and his co-author, Michele Zanini make a passionate, data-driven argument for excising bureaucracy and replacing it with something better. Drawing on more than a decade of research and packed with practical examples, Humanocracy lays out a detailed blueprint for creating organizations that are as inspired and ingenious as the human beings inside them.

Michele talks about whether most CEOs "get Humanocracy", the biggest pitfalls and where and how to start the journey. Michele Zanini is a cofounder of the Management Lab, where he helps large organizations become more adaptable, innovative and engaging places to work. Zanini is an alumnus of McKinsey & Company and the RAND Corporation, and holds degrees from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University and the Pardee RAND Graduate School. In this episode, 

A confiança é um elemento essencial para qualquer equipe. Uma equipe que trabalha sem confiança, não é, de fato, uma equipe. É apenas um grupo de pessoas, dividindo um mesmo ambiente e muitas vezes fazendo progressos individuais e insuficientes. No episódio de hoje exploramos mais um assunto do livro Humanocracy do Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini. Mande a sua pergunta/dúvida por áudio ou escrito para o Whatsapp 31 996977104 ou no email osagilistas@dtidigital.com.br que responderemos no programa!

Episode Title: How To Keep Humanocracy In Business In this episode, we talk to Episode Title: How To Keep Humanocracy In Business In this episode, we talk to Gary Hamel (Business Influencer & London Business School Professor) as we discuss his new book, growing up in Michigan, and what newly minted MBA graduates should do on their first days on the job.  Purchase his book here **More On Gary** Gary Hamel is a longtime faculty member of the London Business School. He has authored 20 articles for the Harvard Business Review and published five books including The Future of Management, which was named Amazon's business book of the year. The Wall Street Journal ranked Hamel as the world's most influential business thinker, while the Financial Times labeled him a “management innovator without peer.” As a consultant, Hamel has helped dozens of the world's most respected companies increase their capacity for innovation and strategic renewal. He is a regular speaker at the world's most prestigious conferences and events, and a fellow of the Strategic Management Society. Together with Michele Zanini, Hamel is co-founder of the Management Lab, an organization that builds technology and tools to support breakthrough management innovation. Hamel lives in Northern California. Follow The Startup Life Podcast Facebook Page Want gear from The Startup Life? Check out our gear! Check out other great podcasts from The Binge Podcast Network. Written by: Dominic Lawson  Executive Producers: Dominic Lawson and Kenda Lawson Music Credits: **Show Theme**  Behind Closed Doors - Otis McDonald  **Break Theme** Cielo - Huma-Huma  Sponsors/Partners Purchase a Flexio Series sprayer from Wagner Use code BETTEREVERYDAY for 30% everything sitewide at ladder.sport. That's “BETTEREVERYDAY” for 30% off at ladder.sport. (Business Influencer & London Business School Professor) as we discuss his new book, growing up in Michigan, and what newly minted MBA graduates should do on their first days on the job.  Purchase his book here **More On Gary** Gary Hamel is a longtime faculty member of the London Business School. He has authored 20 articles for the Harvard Business Review and published five books including The Future of Management, which was named Amazon's business book of the year. The Wall Street Journal ranked Hamel as the world's most influential business thinker, while the Financial Times labeled him a “management innovator without peer.” As a consultant, Hamel has helped dozens of the world's most respected companies increase their capacity for innovation and strategic renewal. He is a regular speaker at the world's most prestigious conferences and events, and a fellow of the Strategic Management Society. Together with Michele Zanini, Hamel is co-founder of the Management Lab, an organization that builds technology and tools to support breakthrough management innovation. Hamel lives in Northern California. Written by: Dominic Lawson  Executive Producers: Dominic Lawson and Kenda Lawson Music Credits: **Show Theme**  Behind Closed Doors - Otis McDonald  **Break Theme** Cielo - Huma-Huma  Sponsors/Partners Purchase a Flexio Series sprayer from Wagner Use code BETTEREVERYDAY for 30% everything sitewide at ladder.sport. That's “BETTEREVERYDAY” for 30% off at ladder.sport. www.funkymedia.agency  www.funkymediaradio.app

No episódio de hoje continuamos a explorar o livro Humanocracy do Gary Hamel e Michele Zanini. Abordamos um dos capítulos do livro que é sobre o poder dos paradoxos. Mande a sua pergunta/dúvida por áudio ou escrito para o Whatsapp 31 996977104 ou no email osagilistas@dtidigital.com.br que responderemos no programa!

How does your team show up for work? How do you show up? Gary Hamel believes people leave their gifts of creativity and daring at home because it is not encouraged. He joins Kevin to discuss why he thinks organizations have been incapacitated by their lack of humanity. Gary is the author of The Future of Management (2007) and his latest book, with Michele Zanini, Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them. He shares data about the increase in bureaucracy in organizations and the decline of productivity growth. In short, the old model is not working and organizations need to think about the human element. Further, people at all levels can make change where they are and building community is a good place to start. This episode is brought to you by… Virtual LeaderCon, a virtual leadership conference coming September 14th-18th. Learn more at https://remarkablepodcast.com/VLC  Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: The Splendid and the Vile: A Saga of Churchill, Family, and Defiance During the Blitz by Eric Lawson Mind & Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False by Thomas Nagel The Experience of God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss by David Bentley Hart Connect with Gary Hamel: Website | Book Website | Twitter | LinkedIn Related Podcast Episodes: The Excellence Dividend with Tom Peters. Brave New Work with Aaron Dignan. Leading Large-Scale Change with Bill Schaninger. The Future Leader with Jacob Morgan. Subscribe to the Podcast Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to this podcast through the options below. iTunes Stitcher TuneIn Soundcloud RSS Or your favorite podcast app.

In this episode, we talk to Gary Hamel (Business Influencer & London Business School Professor) as we discuss his new book, growing up in Michigan, and what newly minted MBA graduates should do on their first days on the job.  Purchase his book here **More On Gary** Gary Hamel is a longtime faculty member of the London Business School. He has authored 20 articles for the Harvard Business Review and published five books including The Future of Management, which was named Amazon's business book of the year. The Wall Street Journal ranked Hamel as the world's most influential business thinker, while the Financial Times labeled him a “management innovator without peer.” As a consultant, Hamel has helped dozens of the world's most respected companies increase their capacity for innovation and strategic renewal. He is a regular speaker at the world's most prestigious conferences and events, and a fellow of the Strategic Management Society. Together with Michele Zanini, Hamel is co-founder of the Management Lab, an organization that builds technology and tools to support breakthrough management innovation. Hamel lives in Northern California. Follow The Startup Life Podcast Facebook Page Want gear from The Startup Life? Check out our gear! Check out other great podcasts from The Binge Podcast Network. Written by: Dominic Lawson  Executive Producers: Dominic Lawson and Kenda Lawson Music Credits: **Show Theme**  Behind Closed Doors - Otis McDonald  **Break Theme** Cielo - Huma-Huma  Sponsors/Partners Purchase a Flexio Series sprayer from Wagner Use code BETTEREVERYDAY for 30% everything sitewide at ladder.sport. That's “BETTEREVERYDAY” for 30% off at ladder.sport.

Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini's forthcoming book, Humanocracy: Creating Organizations as Amazing as the People Inside Them, highlights bureaucracy's social, economic and strategic shortcomings and proposes 'humanocracy' as an alternative management model. In this discussion with Martin Reeves, Chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute, Gary Hamel discusses why companies need to tackle bureaucracy's shortcomings and shares examples of vanguard firms which have managed to make steps towards realizing the principles of humanocracy. *** About the BCG Henderson Institute The BCG Henderson Institute is the Boston Consulting Group's think tank, dedicated to exploring and developing valuable new insights from business, technology, economics, and science by embracing the powerful technology of ideas. The Institute engages leaders in provocative discussion and experimentation to expand the boundaries of business theory and practice and to translate innovative ideas from within and beyond business. For more ideas and inspiration, sign up to receive BHI INSIGHTS, our monthly newsletter, and follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter: @BCGHenderson

In Episode 21 geht es ans Eingemachte. Axel Apfelbacher fragt was Organisationsdesign in Zukunft leisten muss und Christoph Koenig und Human begeben sich für uns in die Tiefen der ökonomischen, technischen und sozialen Veränderungen, um das herauszufinden. Dabei geht es heiß her: sollten Unternehmen überhaupt versuchen selbst innovativ zu sein? Muss finanzielles Risiko umverteilt werden?Die Folge in einem Satz: Christoph erklärt wie sich die Selbstorganisation der Konsumenten auf die Selbstorganisation in Organisationen auswirkt, Human definiert die Rolle des Topmanagements neu, als strukturgebendes, statt steuerndes Element, Axel lässt nicht locker, bis die Antworten zufriedenstellend sind und Mary-Jane hört heute extra aufmerksam zu.Shownotes:Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (2000). Der kleine Prinz.Valve Handbook for New Employees: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/apps/valve/Valve_NewEmployeeHandbook.pdfGary Hamel & Michele Zanini (2018). The End of Bureaucracy.Methoden, die Christoph erwähnt hat: Theory U, Appreciative Inquiry, Agile Open Space