Podcasts about huggy rao

Welcome to Brain Snacks, bite sized learning moments from We Are Human Leaders. In today's Brain Snack, Huggy Rao shares the impact of bad friction on our relationships at work and beyond – and shares two examples of how this damage can be avoided. For more, check out the full conversation with Huggy at the link below.For now, enjoy.Find the full episode of We Are Human Leaders with Huggy Rao here https://www.wearehumanleaders.com/podcast/facing-friction-huggy-rao Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ten essential communication strategies designed to elevate your skills.2024 has been an incredible year for learning and growth, and as we head into 2025, there's no better time to reflect on the skills and strategies that can shape our communication and careers. In this special episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Matt Abrahams takes us through ten standout lessons from the past year. These aren't just ideas to remember — they're practices to evolve with. From Priya Parker's insights on generous authority to Huggy Rao's call to cut through jargon monoxide, each concept highlights how small shifts in mindset and behavior can lead to big transformations. With actionable advice and real-world examples, this episode is packed with inspiration to help you Think Fast, Talk Smart, and communicate better in the year ahead.Thank you to our Sponsor Superhuman for offering the TFTS community one month free.Episode Reference Links:Ep.174 Fix Meetings: Transform Gatherings Into Meaningful MomentsEp.164 Using "Pre-suasion" to Influence OthersEp.158 Hope for Cynics: Building Trusting Relationships through CommunicationEp.156 Creative Communication: How Our Design Choices Illustrate Our ValuesEp.148 Conviction and Compassion: How to Have Hard ConversationsEp.142 Power and Persuasion: Live Insights from Stanford ExpertsEp.137 When Words Aren't Enough: How to Excel at Nonverbal CommunicationEp.138 Speak Your Truth: Why Authenticity Leads to Better CommunicationEp.134 How to Chat with Bots: The Secrets to Getting the Information You Need from AIEp.131 Friction Fixing: How to Use Obstacles to Your Advantage          Ep.120 A Few of Matt's Favorite Things: 10 Communication Takeaways from 2023's TFTS Episodes Connect:Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart PremiumEmail Questions & Feedback >>> hello@fastersmarter.ioEpisode Transcripts >>> Think Fast Talk Smart WebsiteNewsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>> FasterSmarter.ioThink Fast Talk Smart >>> LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTubeMatt Abrahams >>> LinkedInChapters:(00:00) - Introduction (02:23) - Priya Parker: Gatherings And Generous Authority (04:29) - Robert Cialdini: Pre-Suasion (06:15) - Jamil Zaki: Trust Loudly (07:28) - Scott Dorley: Design Your Environment (09:54) - Irv Grousbeck: Brevity Conveys Conviction (11:23) - Michele Gelfand: Mind Your Metaphors (12:53) - Dana Carney: Take Space With Words (14:23) - Julia Minson: Use Hear When In Conflict (16:59) - Jeremy Utley And Kian Gohar: How To Chat With Bots (18:38) - Huggy Rao: Avoid Jargon Monoxide (20:44) - Conclusion ********Become a Faster Smarter Supporter by joining TFTS Premium.Take advantage of our Sponsor offer from Superhuman

On this week's Tech Nation, Moira speaks with Stanford Professors, Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao, talk about their book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.” Then, is your personal technology doing more than you bargained for? Duke University Professor Nita Farahany talks about “The Battle for Your Brain … Defending the Right to Think Freely in the Age of Neurotechnology.”

Want to help us improve Behavioral Grooves? Take our listener survey here! Looking for your next great read? We've got you covered! It's time for our annual Best Books episode, where we share the standout reads that inspired and informed us this year. We've organized our picks into four categories—Leadership, Work Life, Relationships, and Critical Thinking—to help you find the perfect book for your personal or professional journey. Whether you're looking for fresh ideas, practical insights, or even a last-minute gift, this curated list has something for everyone. Join us as we explore the year's most impactful reads and get ready to turn the page on some life-changing ideas! ©2024 Behavioral Grooves Topics [0:00] Welcome back to Best Books! [2:37] Best Books for Leadership [11:56] Best Books for Work Life [19:23] Best Books for Relationships [30:05] Best Books for Critical Thinking [43:18] Wrap up - Happy Holidays from Behavioral Grooves! ©2024 Behavioral Grooves Links Both and Thinking by Wendy Smith and Marianne Lewis The Friction Project by Huggy Rao and Robert Sutton Likable Badass by Alison Green Is Your Work Worth It? by Christopher Michaelson and Jennifer Tosti-Kharas Burnout Immunity by Kandi Wiens The Ritual Effect by Mike Norton Tightwads and Spendthrifts by Scott Rick The Laws of Connection by David Robson 12 Questions for Love by Topaz Adizes May Contain Lies by Alex Edmonds You Only Die Once by Jody Wellman Third Millennium Thinking by Saul Perlmutter, Robert M. Coon, and John Campbell A Year of Living Constitutionally by AJ Jacobs Musical Links Kurt's Song of the Year: Ren - Money Ties Tim's Song of the Year: Lake Street Dive - Nick of Time

Each Sunday, TED shares an episode of another podcast we think you'll love, handpicked for you… by us. This is an episode of Fixable, another podcast from the TED Audio Collective. Do you feel like you're hitting a wall at work? This week, Anne and Frances are joined by Master Fixers Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao. Bob and Huggy are professors at Stanford University and authors of “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder”. Together, the four discuss how anyone can eliminate the obstacles to doing their best work—and create constraints that make work even better. If you like this episode, get more Fixable wherever you are listening to this. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of the Just Schools Podcast, Jon Eckert interviews Rachel Johnson, the CEO of PiXL in the UK. They discuss PiXL's mission to improve student outcomes by supporting leaders in schools and highlight key challenges faced by school leaders today. Johnson shares insights into overcoming people-pleasing tendencies, setting boundaries, and creating ownership. The conversation covers practical tools for healthy communication and empowering leaders to think deeply and make transformative changes in their schools. The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work. Be encouraged. Join us for Just Leadership on February 3rd at Baylor University, a one-day professional learning event for school administrators – from instructional coaches to superintendents – that focuses on catalyzing change as a leadership team. Register Now! Connect with us: Baylor MA in School Leadership EdD in K-12 Educational Leadership Jon Eckert LinkedIn Twitter: @eckertjon Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl   Jon Eckert: Today we are here with Rachel Johnson, a friend that we've made through mutual friends in the UK who's doing amazing work. And I just want to jump right in to what you're learning and then we'll back into more of what you do. So what are you learning through PiXL? So you can give us a quick introduction to what PiXL is and then what you're learning from the leaders that you're supporting. Rachel Johnson: Yeah. So PiXL stands for Partners in Excellence. We work with two and a half thousand schools across the UK. And what we're learning is how important leadership is in the conversation in school improvement. So we believe in improving life chances and outcomes for every young person irrespective of background or status or finance. But behind all of that is the ability for brilliant people in schools to lead well. And that's the conversation people want to have now more and more than perhaps they ever have because people are fascinated with how they can be better, how they can thrive, what's stopping them thrive. And that is the attention that I've been giving a lot of my work recently around that issue. Jon Eckert: So love that mission. We always push at the center for moving from some students to all students and now to each student, what does it mean to do that for each student so that thriving for each student is powerful. In order to have those thriving students, you have to have thriving leaders. So what are some of the things, I think you mentioned you have 3,200 people in leadership courses, what are some of those takeaways that are keeping people from thriving that you're finding? Rachel Johnson: Yeah, we're finding a lot of very common things. And actually it doesn't matter what level they are in school leadership, it's the same issues. So things like people pleasing, which is getting in the way of leadership and decision-making, not being able to hold a boundary, sometimes not having a boundary. So there is no difference between work and life. There is no stopping. We just carry on going. I think that's a real issue. We're finding people not really knowing are structured to have difficult conversations or as I like to call them, crucial conversations. They shouldn't be difficult, but the lack of confidence in having those conversations. And then I think other things like how to create buy-in, how to get momentum, how to have that very delicate balance as Jim Collins calls it, between the brutal facts and the unwavering hope. So what does that actually look like on the ground? How can I do both at the same time without going for hopium where you're drugging people on things that can't actually happen or being so honest and brutal that nobody wants to follow you because it sounds so depressing? So what does the reality of that look like in school leadership? And what we are finding is across nearly three and a half thousand people on our leadership courses, they're all struggling with those kind of issues. Jon Eckert: No, that's powerful. I think one of the questions that I'm always asking leaders because it's a hard one is, and I think it comes from Patrick Lencioni, but I'm not sure. It could be from another theorist, they all start to run together a bit. I don't think it's John Maxwell, I don't think it's Jim Collins, but is for who are you willing to make enemies? What ideas are you willing to make enemies over? So what are those things that like, "Hey, this is a non-negotiable for me." And I think a lot of educators don't think about that because we have a people pleasing sense of what we want to do. And so that's a really hard conversation to have because I agree, we tend to lean toward hopium. I think that's a great term for what we do. And so how do you get people into those crucial conversations? I like that reframe as well. But how do you get them into that when you know that there's kind of a natural resistance among a lot of educators to those kinds of conversations? Rachel Johnson: It is really difficult, but not having the conversation doesn't make the issue go away. And I think as soon as people realize, "It's actually making me miserable. My department is underperforming, therefore young people are underperforming all because I'm not courageous enough to have the conversation." And what we find using Susan Scott's model of fierce conversations is when you give them that seven-part model of how to have the conversation in one minute where you say your peace but you stay in adult, as Transactional Analysis would call it. So you're not giving it a kind of sly interpretation. You're not giving a mean tone to your voice. You're being absolutely clear and absolutely kind, but absolutely straight, then people respond usually really well. But I think one of the things that is most disconcerting for leaders and educators is you have to listen to what the other person says. It isn't just about us delivering our truth and how we perceive things. It's about being quiet long enough to hear what they're saying and maybe more importantly what they're not saying. And so it's fascinating to me that what is stopping us sometimes is the courage. But this is really affecting our schools. And certainly in the UK, in a recent survey that one of our big agencies did called Teacher Tapp, 64% of teachers said they had worked or did work in a toxic environment in school. That's a lot of people calling their environment where we should be seeing young people thrive, and our leaders and our teachers are saying it's toxic. So something's going wrong somewhere. And what stops us dealing with this I think is the lack of courage and the lack of tools to be able to know how to approach it, which is why that's where we put our weight in the practical tools that can help people unlock this. And people say things like, "We feel liberated, transformed. It's like a weight off and we feel like we can do it." And that is the kind of feedback we get regularly. And I think that is really very, very important that people are helped to do these difficult things. Jon Eckert: Really, really good stuff there. It reminded me of two things in what you said because you've shared a lot. And I love how much we've into right here off the bat. The book High Conflict by Amanda Ripley. I don't know if you've seen that book. It came out in 2021, so it's been out for a while. She introduces this concept, which I think is what you're getting at in that one minute conversation a little bit in the way we listen. So it's not her idea again, but this is where I came to the idea. It's the idea of looping, that when you're in conflict with someone, the key is when you're receiving the feedback from the person where they're telling you how they feel, where they're upset, where they're disagreeing with you, you have to listen, then you have to distill what's being said. Then you have to check for understanding and then question, "Did I get it right?" So that you're repeating back. Because I think sometimes, at least in the United States, some of the conflict is due to poor communication, and that looping provides an opportunity to correct that communication error and it's a form of empathy because it's taking on that perspective, did I hear you right? Now, just active listening, you can really alienate people with active listening skills without being genuinely curious. So that's one of the things when you're doing that, you can't do it in a formulaic way that feels like you're just jumping through hoops because that's really alienating to the person doing it. Does that square with what you found or am I thinking about something differently than you are? Rachel Johnson: I think what's fascinating is that, and this is what I do really for my job now, is I take lots of different things like that from High Conflict from Chris Voss and his hostage negotiation techniques, crisis communication that we have over here with a fierce conversation and I kind of mush it all together in one model. And so what all of these people are saying, including Nancy Kline who's written brilliant work on listening and thinking is we mustn't overdo it when we talk to people. We mustn't kind of interpret what they're saying and then tell them what they're thinking. We have to ask great questions. We have to be comfortable with silence and let the silence do the heavy lifting. Most of us are not comfortable with that. We have to summarize like you've said and say at the end, "Is that right?" And if the person says, "No, that's not right," that's the opening of the conversation, not the end of it. That's when we say, "Okay, great. What did I not summarize well? What have I not understood? Tell me?" We've got to be more curious and less judgmental. But because I think educators are so used to making judgments, because that's literally our job a lot of the time is making judgments on grades, on behavior, on progress, to not make judgments on fellow adults, it's sometimes really hard. Jon Eckert: I always say educators are way more gracious with students than they are with each other. And- Rachel Johnson: Or themselves. Jon Eckert: Yeah. Oh. And typically that lack of graciousness to others is because of the lack of graciousness to self. I think one of the key points you said, and you mentioned earlier in tone when you asked that question, "What did I not get right?" You can say, "What did I not get right?" In a very curious way. Or, "What did I not get right?" With the eye roll. And then you've either closed off the conversation or you've opened it. And I think the tone and the facial expression goes a long way to that, which is why I think we have to have this interpersonal connection. If you're doing this over text or you're doing it over email, it's pretty doomed to fail. I don't know. Would you agree with that, that this has to be kind of face-to-face as much as possible? Rachel Johnson: Yeah. I think a lot happens on Zoom these days or on Teams, which is difficult. And I think that is manageable if you get your tone right, if you get your eye contact right. I think one of the most damaging things in communication with anybody is the not listening, as you've mentioned, and the tone. So making it sound like a judgment. But the other thing I think is really difficult is when we speak in ulterior transactions. So the conversation we're having is not the conversation we're thinking. And people can smell it a mile off, can't they? I think of all kinds of situations at home where I say to my children like, "Oh, did you not have time to tidy your bedroom?" And what I'm actually saying is, "You're absolute slobs. You round here making a mess of my house." And they can hear the criticism and then they say, "Are you having a go at me mum?" And then I go, "No, I don't know what you're talking about." And that's dishonest. And I think we fall into that a few times when we are not courageous enough to have the real conversation. So I think that's another trap we can fall into. Jon Eckert: Right. I think I had a couple of those conversations with a daughter and a wife this weekend potentially, so that I need to go back and do some correcting. So thank you for that. One other thing you mentioned earlier was, and I think it's a chapter in, I think it's in your first book, about getting buy-in. One of the things that I've been pushing on here, and I'm curious to hear if there's a cultural difference here potentially. I found Gen Zs and millennials in the US, they do not want to buy-in to things because it sounds like an idea is being sold that they're just supposed to get on board with. And they don't do that. And I almost say that to their credit because they want to co-own what they're doing. And so buy-in is not something that they're interested in. They want to own it with you sometimes in ways that make it way better if we do that. Do you find that in the UK that there's less interest in buying in and more of an interest in kind of co-owning the work? Or is that still something that works relatively well in the UK, trying to get buy-in? Rachel Johnson: I think you're absolutely right, and I think this new generation are very different and I think they don't want to do it the way we did it. We wore tiredness and exhaustion like a trophy, like a medal. "Look how knackered I am, look how late I was up doing all my work." They look at that and go, "I don't want that. I want to have a sabbatical. I want to have a life. I want to go to the gym. I want to do what I want to do." So I think the way we are talking about buy-in needs to change. But I also think the way we get buy-in needs to change. We, I think have thought buy-in means, "Here's my idea, here's what we are doing, join me in what I'm doing." And that isn't really genuine buy-in. Buy-in is saying, "What is the problem we're trying to solve? Let's get people around the table, listen to really healthy conflict within a boundary where we feel safe to be able to disagree." All that psychological safety stuff by Amy Edmondson, it's crucial. It's not easy, but it's crucial. And then I think people do buy-in when they're heard. I think all these things we're talking about are linked. If I'm ignored, I'm not going to buy-in whether it's a great idea or not, because you're not hearing me. So I think we have to create more time to be heard and to hear. But I think one of the issues we have in leadership, particularly in education is we're always in such a rush. That hurry-up driver like, "Let's get everything done yesterday driver," can stop us really engaging and listening. And so where we can go fast, we sometimes do, and I think we lose a lot in that, especially this new generation who want to be heard, want to think things through, want to be well-researched. Great, that can really benefit us, but we have to give it time. Jon Eckert: Well, and again, leadership's always going to be messy and it can either be messy on the front end where you all own, where you're going together or it's going to be messy on the back end. So I'd much rather have it be messy on the front end. That just takes some patience and some ability to avoid falling victim to the tyranny of the urgent where we constantly throw one change after another at people in a way that doesn't actually produce what we want because we're too impatient to see it happen. So I'm curious how you got to this work. So this amazing work that you're doing through PiXL, which we can get more into PiXL in a little bit, but you personally, how did you end up writing these books, doing the podcasts, building out being a catalyst at PiXL to do this kind of work with leaders, but where did that come from? Rachel Johnson: So I think it started fairly young really when I was, my dad led a church and he was a leader in schools and so was my mom. So I watched all of that all of my life. But I was kind of old before my age really, and I always wanted to lead something. So I did Sunday school when I was 10, teaching three-year olds. I always took on more responsibility. And so what I wanted when I was 13 and 14 was to work out what does leadership look like? How can I be a better version of me? How can I make change happen? And apart from reading people that you've mentioned, like John Maxwell, there wasn't an awful lot for people my age. And so I never had anything age appropriate. So I read all the adult stuff. And I was looking back at my old journals actually yesterday. I was clearing out the loft and I look in my journals at me at 13 and go, "There she is, there's the person I am now. There, I can see her so clearly when I look." But it wasn't usual back then. And so I was a bit different and did different things, but I was absolutely committed to leadership. And so from that point on really, wherever I was I wanted to lead. And it wasn't that I was bothered about promotion or position or title or money. I'm not bothered about any of those things. I want to go where I can be to make the biggest difference. And so for me, leadership is where you make the biggest difference, where you could have the agency to make the difference. And for me, that has become the driving force really to try and do good in the world, to try and help people create their own change. So yes, that's where it started, very young. Jon Eckert: Love that. And so now at PiXL, what do you try to do organizationally? You gave us a little bit of what PiXL stands for, but how are you doing that and what different avenues in different countries? I know you have a number of ways you're trying to serve leaders who want to become the kind of leaders you wanted to become as a young person. Rachel Johnson: Yeah. So we do conferences, we did big conferences in the UK and those are hugely attended. We work with different types of leaders. We have two podcasts, PiXL Pearls, which are just 10 minutes leadership reflection. So not heavy, but just a moment of reflection to think about our own leadership. And then we have the PiXL leadership book club where we take non-educational school books because that's another really important thing of mine, to look outside of education, not always within. And so I interviewed two school leaders about a non-educational leadership book and how they've applied those messages into their context. And that's the kind of thing I'm interested in. I'm interested in looking at what other people in the world are doing and how we can take that from marketing or that from branding or that from hostage negotiation and how we can turn our schools around based on the lessons that've been learned elsewhere. So that's become a really big thing. Now I write all kinds of things on that. The books which I wrote that two have come out already, the chapters in those are all of the things that I asked our leaders, "What do you struggle with?" And that's what they said. And so I wrote the chapters for them really to try and help us all get a little bit more unstuck. Because we all get stuck and sometimes it's too difficult to find a great big book and read all the way through it when you haven't got time. So it's really short, bite-sized chunks to help get us unstuck. And so with that and working and with how we have resources and strategies, a whole range of things to help school leaders get the support they need. But I think one of the most important things we've just started doing is named after the book, we have something called Time to Think where leaders are able to book time with my team to just think a few ideas. We're not going to talk, they're going to book 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes. And that time is for them to talk through their ideas, for us to ask questions to help them get clarity, but for them to leave more empowered than they came in. And what school leaders are telling us is they don't have enough time to think. It happens on holidays, in the mornings, in the middle of the night. And it shouldn't happen then, it should happen in working hours too. But sometimes people need a bit of a helping hand to get there. So that's one of the most exciting things we're doing at the minute, creating that time to think and walking with people as they do that. Jon Eckert: I love that. I tell people when they start masters or doctoral programs at Baylor that the biggest gift we're giving you is time to think through what you're doing with the kinds of books that you're talking about. I totally agree, we need to look at education, but we need to look beyond education. So I love that conversation you're having with school leaders about books. Everything you described from the PiXL Pearls to everything else is trying to give people this catalyzing force to spend more time thinking and just carving out that space is a huge gift. So I think you mentioned that you primarily work in the UK, but that you have some connection into 46 different countries. Are there things you're seeing that feel like they work cross-culturally, like, "Hey, everyone is dealing with this." Because I know most of our listeners are in the United States and we can spend way too much time navel-gazing at our challenges and opportunities here. I'm wondering those conversations that you've had where they identify challenges that leaders have, are there any things there that you're like, "Hey, this feels like a common challenge. It does not matter where it is. This is..." Maybe it's the Time to Think, but if it's something other than that as well. What are some of those challenges you're seeing that cut across contexts? Rachel Johnson: Well, how I would kind of evidence that really is it's the podcasts that have gone all over the world in different countries. And we haven't really pushed those out. We've had them in the UK and they've gone everywhere through Apple or Spotify. But the ones that are most listened to, that's what's really fascinating. The biggest episodes are Dare to Lead with Brené Brown. So clearly if that's our leading episode, it's because people don't have courage like we've touched upon. The other one that is massive is the People Pleasing one, which is based on a book by Emma Reid Terrell called Please Yourself and is around the real problems of people pleasing. That's been another massive hitter. And then the third one, which has been a really big hitter, is based on Cal Newport's work on Deep Work and Time To Think. So if that's the three places where people are going across all of the people who listen to our podcasts. And I think in total there's about 195,000 downloads now maybe. I think that says something about where people's attention is, that's what they're craving. And I think we should listen to that because I think these things are quite deep-rooted and I think people don't find solutions to how to handle those three things either. Jon Eckert: Well, I love Brené Brown, I love Cal Newport. I need to read the people pleasing book, so. Rachel Johnson: Wonderful. Jon Eckert: I'm getting good recommendations. Yeah. The Slow Productivity by Cal Newport that just came out is kind of the latest manifestation. I still think Deep Work is his best book, but Slow Productivity I've worked into some of my classes because I do think this idea and his premise there is that we do less things, work at a natural pace and obsess over quality. That's how we provide the human value that is going to become increasingly value as AI and other things automate other pieces. It's what are we uniquely suited to build and do? And that's really to me, the extension of deep work. That's the critical component. And you have to have time to think because- Rachel Johnson: Yeah, you have to have time to think. And then you kind of think, why are we not doing deep work? Why are we overstretched? And I think it comes down to what I would call now toxic productivity. I think when you have a profession full of people who love to be efficient and love to-do lists and tick things off and feel great about themselves, the danger is we become addicted to productivity. We can't rest, we can't stop, we can't switch off. We have to be doing something productive. We even monetize our hobbies for goodness's sake because we can't do them for free, because that's a waste of time. It is quite astonishing. And we are obsessed with adding things, not taking things away. So I don't speak to many leaders who say, "We're reducing our efforts by half because we don't think it's working. So these five things are going and these five things will replace them." They should add more things. No wonder we're all frazzled, so. Jon Eckert: Well, and social media has turned us into the product. So our attention is what is demanded and that is what is being sold. And that's new and I think devastating for especially adolescents who are coming into leadership, those 13-year-olds that dreamed about leading the way you do. "Oh, I can do that through my followership on this as I sell products for someone else." And so you become a conduit for other corporations to grab other people through you. It's not real leadership. And so I worry about, I do not want this to happen, but my email box, I worry that I will be getting AI-generated emails into the box. I will then have AI-generating responses, and I'll just be a spectator watching AI talk to AI which by definition, Darren Speaksma says this all the time. AI is consensus because all it is scraping from large language models. It is not wisdom. To get wisdom, you need the human. And that's the point of deep work. How do we pursue joy through truth and love? How do we do this and this? And AI just, that's not what AI is designed to do. It can summarize, it can collect, it can scrape. But that's the part that I'm like, "Oh." And that's the life-giving work. And so Greg McCown, UK guy, Essentialism, that was the book. And then it became how do I? I've reduced all the small rocks out of the jar and I've just got big rocks and now the rocks are too much. And I feel like that's where we're at. So I love his work as well. So based on all that, those common challenges that we see, where do you see hope? Where are you most hopeful? Rachel Johnson: I'm hopeful that people want the conversation. I'm hopeful that in a room of thousands of leaders, I can say, "Put your hand up if you're a people pleaser." I've been a recovering people pleaser since 2020. I often say to people, I went into recovery in March 2020 when I read that book, Please Yourself by Emma Reid Terrell. And thought, "Oh my goodness, I don't want to be that." She says, you can either be an authentic person or a people pleaser. You cannot be both. And I was really convicted by it because I thought, I want to be the best kind of leader, but if I'm people pleasing, I can't be. This has got to change. And I am with roomfuls of people now virtually and in person who are embracing this, who say, "I want to go in recovery too. Enough. I realize it's holding me back." And wherever there are people who are willing to change and are up for the work and up for the debate about it all, I think there's always hope. And when we face our own brutal facts and we believe we can change, then I think there's always hope. And that is the kind of message we want to talk about in education in the UK and further afield, that we are not stuck. We don't have to be stuck. Human connection, human understanding, human wisdom, as you mentioned, these things that we can learn to be better and overcome our stuckness can change our lives first and foremost before we change anybody else's, but then help other people to change. And I think there is a great deal of hope. I think sometimes we have to look hard for it because social media and the news don't talk hope, they talk despair. And so we have to be very open and vocal about the hope. But that's one of the things that I hope to always be, the voice of hope. Not ignoring the brutal facts. We mustn't do that, but always saying, "We'll find a way if we think about this. If we invest, we will find a way." Because I believe we will. Jon Eckert: Love that. The next book I'm working on right now is "Gritty Optimism: Catalyzing Joy in Just Schools." How do we build on what we know can change in schools and what they can be? Because there's so many great stories out there and there's so many ways to do it. So this conversation has been super encouraging that way. So I'm just going to end us with a quick lightning round here. You've already given me at least one book recommendation I need to read. I'm just curious, in the last year, what's a book that you've read from any field? It doesn't have to be from education, that you would recommend to me and to us? Rachel Johnson: I'll give you two, Ruthlessly Caring by Amy Walters Cohen about the paradoxes in leadership and the Friction Project by Robert I. Sutton and Huggy Rao. Jon Eckert: Yes. So I have been reading pieces of the Friction Project, remarkable. Have not read Ruthlessly Caring, so I've got to get on that. Thank you. All right. What is the worst advice you've received or given as a leader? And then follow that up with the best advice you've either given or received. Rachel Johnson: The worst advice I've ever been given is that humility is putting yourself last. Because it's not true. Jon Eckert: That's good. Rachel Johnson: That's a very blunt and terrible definition. The worst advice that I've probably given would be in my early years of leadership when I was first new and basically said to people, "Maybe don't cause a fuss about that." Because I was a people pleaser, I didn't want to make a fuss. And so sometimes I told other people not to make a fuss and that was a mistake. Jon Eckert: That's good. So if you were, oh, so I had a quick break on the connection. So our connection broke there a minute. So don't make a fuss, that's also bad advice. Correct? Yeah. Rachel Johnson: Yeah. Jon Eckert: So what's the good advice that you've received or given, what's the best advice you've either given or received? Rachel Johnson: The best advice I think I would give is make sure when you have any interaction that you are okay and you're seeing the other person as okay. And what I mean by that is that we're not coming with an attitude of judgment or superiority or anything that someone can sniff, which is going to put their back against the wall immediately. So be an adult, be in control of yourself. And if you're not in control of yourself, be vulnerable, but don't do it and create a mess in front of somebody else when it's going to damage them. I think that is unfair. Jon Eckert: That's great advice. Love that. What is one word, if you had to describe the schools you work with right now, what would be one word you'd use to describe the schools or the leaders of the schools that you serve? Rachel Johnson: Resilient. Jon Eckert: Love that. Love that. No, that's right. If we're still in education right now, we're resilient people, so good word. And then what would be one word you would hope would describe the next year in the schools that you serve? Rachel Johnson: I'd hope, it's a dramatic word, but I'd say transformational. Because I think if people can grasp this stuff, if they can make the time to think, if they can put themselves on their thinking tank first, I honestly believe we'll overcome challenges that we didn't think were possible. And I hope that in turn doesn't transform PiXL. It's not about that. It's about transforming them first and then transforming the way that they lead because that, I believe, unlocks everything else. Jon Eckert: That's a great word to end on. Well, Rachel, this conversation has been great for me. Huge encouragement. Thank you for the work you're doing and thanks for spending the time with us. Rachel Johnson: Thank you so much. I have loved speaking to you.  

The Friction Project by Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao is one of the most important books I have read this year and highly recommend to people in the industry who deal with friction at workplace day in day out. It tells us how to identity good friction and bad friction and how we can try being friction fixers. Here is my review If you are listening on Spotify please share add your thoughts there. If not on Spotify email me your thoughts to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠penpositive@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect on Social Media PenPositive YouTube Channel ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@PenPositive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@penpositive⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ My Professional Blog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penpositive.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ My Personal Blog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://vinodnarayan.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vinodn/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/penpositive/support

The Friction Project by Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao is one of the most important books I have read this year and highly recommend to people in the industry who deal with friction at workplace day in day out. It tells us how to identity good friction and bad friction and how we can try being friction fixers. Here is my review You can watch the Video version of this podcast on the YouTube Channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Agile Malayali YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Other Podcasts ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pahayan Media Malayalam Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Penpositive Outclass English Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vayanalokam Malayalam Book Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Healthcare - and life- are filled with friction. In this episode, Dr. Michael Maddaus talks with Huggy Rao, co-author of The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier, about eliminating the forces that make it harder to get things done.

We're rounding out our deep dive on organizational AGI with Aaron De Smet, a Senior Partner at McKinsey & Company who helped identify "The keys to organizational agility" with colleagues back in 2015. As we discussed in our first episode on organizational AGI, agility is a key component to making the journey feasible. Aaron has been exploring organizational AGI for years and connects the dots between organizational longevity and the technologies associated with AI. This conversation examines the ways our very idea of work is steeped in outdated beliefs and strategies from the industrial revolution and how companies that will survive and thrive in this new era will have to reshape themselves. Learn more about how to create and orchestrate AI agents: https://onereach.ai/ai-agents?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=agi_in_organizational_agility&utm_content=1 Jim Collins, BHAG: https://www.jimcollins.com/concepts/bhag.html The Friction Project by Robert I. Sutton and Huggy Rao: https://www.bobsutton.net/book/the-friction-project/ To learn more about our bestselling book that began the conversation we continue in this podcast: https://onereach.ai/invisiblemachines/ #OAGI #AGI #singularity #LLMs #agile #corporatelongevity #longevity #AIagent #genai #McKinsey #invisiblemachines

 Bio: Pete Newell Pete Newell is a nationally recognized innovation expert whose work is transforming how the  government and other large organizations compete and drive growth.  He is the CEO of BMNT, an internationally recognized innovation consultancy and early-stage tech accelerator that helps solve some of the hardest real-world problems in national security, state and local governments, and beyond. Founded in Silicon Valley, BMNT has offices in Palo Alto, Washington DC, Austin, London, and Canberra. BMNT uses a framework, called H4X®, to drive innovation at speed. H4X® is an adaptation of the problem curation techniques honed on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan combined with the best practices employed by successful Silicon Valley startups. The result is a disciplined, evidence-based, data-driven process for connecting innovation activities into an accountable system that delivers solutions and overcome obstacles to innovation. Pete is a founder and co-author, with Lean Startup founder Steve Blank, of Hacking for Defense (H4D)®, an academic program taught at 47+ universities in the U.S., as well as universities in the UK and Australia. H4D® focuses on solving national security problems. It has in turned created a series of sister courses – Hacking for Diplomacy, Hacking for Oceans, Hacking for Sustainability, Hacking for Local and others – that use the H4X® framework to solve critical real-world problems while providing students with a platform to gain crucial problem-solving experience while performing a national service. Pete continues to advise and teach the original H4D® course at Stanford University with Steve Blank. In addition, Pete is Co-Founder and Board Director of The Common Mission Project, the 501c3 non-profit responsible for creating an international network of mission-driven entrepreneurs, including through programs like H4D®. Prior to joining BMNT, Pete served as the Director of the US Army's Rapid Equipping Force (REF).  Reporting directly to the senior leadership of the Army, he was charged with rapidly finding, integrating, and employing solutions to emerging problems faced by Soldiers on the battlefield. From 2010 to 2013 Pete led the REF in the investment of over $1.4B in efforts designed to counter the effects of improvised explosive devices, reduce small units exposure to suicide bombers and rocket attacks and to reduce their reliance on long resupply chains. He was responsible for the Army's first deployment of mobile manufacturing labs as well as the use of smart phones merged with tactical radio networks. Pete retired from the US Army as a Colonel in 2013. During his 32 years in uniform he served as both an enlisted national guardsman and as an active duty officer. He commanded Infantry units at the platoon through brigade level, while performing special operations, combat, and peace support operations in Panama, Kosovo, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan. He is an Army Ranger who has received numerous awards to include the Silver Star and Presidential Unit Citation. Pete holds a BS from Kansas State University, an MS from the US Army Command & General Staff College, an MS from the National Defense University and advanced certificates from the MIT Sloan School and the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Bio: Dr Alison Hawks Dr. Alison Hawks is one of the leading experts advancing public sector innovation. A researcher and academic-turned-entrepreneur, she is the co-founder and CEO of BMNT, Ltd., the innovation company that is changing how public sector innovation happens; and Chair of the Common Mission Project UK, BMNT's charitable partner that guides mission-driven entrepreneurial education in the UK. Dr. Hawks co-founded BMNT Ltd with (Ret) Col Pete Newell, the CEO of BMNT, Inc., in 2019 to bring BMNT's proven innovation approach to the UK market. Under her leadership BMNT has become a trusted innovation partner across all single Services of Defence, the Cabinet Office, and the national security community. She has also helped change how real-world government challenges are addressed in the UK, launching the “Hacking for” academic programmes created in the U.S. These courses that teach university students how to use modern entrepreneurial tools and techniques to solve problems alongside government at startup speed. As a result of her efforts, 14 UK universities are offering Hacking for the Ministry of Defence, Hacking for Sustainability and Hacking for Police. More than 480 students have taken these courses, addressing 103 real-world challenges. Dr. Hawks teaches mission-driven entrepreneurship at King's College London, Department of War Studies and at Imperial College London's Institute of Security Science and Technology. She was named the Woman of the Year for Innovation and Creativity at the Women in Defence Awards in 2022. She serves on the Board of Directors of BMNT, leading development of BMNT's innovation education programs while also guiding the integration of BMNT's rapidly expanding international presence. She was previously Director of Research at the Section 809 Panel, a U.S. Congressionally mandated commission tasked with streamlining and codifying defense acquisition. She was also an Assistant Professor at the School of Foreign Service, Georgetown University, as well as King's College London, Department of Defence Studies where she taught strategy, policy and operations in professional military education. Dr. Hawks' doctoral thesis was in military sociology. She received her Ph.D from the Department of War Studies at King's College London, and her MA in Strategic Studies from the University of Leeds. She holds a BA in Political Science from the University of California, San Diego. She has multiple peer reviewed publications on her research. Interview Highlights 03:50 BMNT 06:20 Serendipity 10:00 Saying yes to the uncomfortable 11:20 Leadership 15:00 Developing a thick skin 20:00 Lessons of an entrepreneur 22:00 Stakeholder success 25:00 Solving problems at speed and at scale 28:00 The innovation pipeline 29:30 Resistance is rational 34:00 Problem curation 38:00 Dual use investments 43:00 Accelerating change 47:00 AUKUS 52:20 AI   Contact Information   ·         LinkedIn: Ali Hawks on LinkedIn ·         LinkedIn Peter Newell on LinkedIn ·         Website:  The Common Mission Project UK ·         Website: BMNT US ·         Website: BMNT UK   Books & Resources ·         Scaling Up Excellence: Getting to More Without Settling for Less: Robert Sutton, Robert , Huggy Rao ·         Value Proposition Canvas ·         Business Model Canvas ·         Hacking for Defense ·         Hacking for Allies ·         AUKUS DIN ·         Impromptu : Amplifying Our Humanity Through AI, Reid Hoffman ·         Huberman Lab Podcast ·         Allie K. Miller ·         Wiring the Winning Organization: Liberating Our Collective Greatness through Slowification, Simplification, and Amplification: Gene Kim, Steven Spear ·         The Friction Project - Bob Sutton, Huggy Rao Episode Transcript  Intro: Hello and welcome to the Agile Innovation Leaders podcast. I'm Ula Ojiaku. On this podcast I speak with world-class leaders and doers about themselves and a variety of topics spanning Agile, Lean Innovation, Business, Leadership and much more – with actionable takeaways for you the listener. Ula Ojiaku My guests for this episode are Pete Newell and Ali Hawks. Pete Newell is the CEO and Co-founder of BMNT, an innovation consultancy and early stage technology incubator that helps solve some of the hardest problems facing the Department of Defense and Intelligence community. Ali Hawks is CEO of BMNT in the UK and also a Co-founder of BMNT in the UK. In addition to this, she is the Chair of the Board of Trustees at the Common Mission Project, and she Co-founded the Common Mission Project in 2019 and drove its growth as a Startup charity in the UK. Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, my conversation with Pete and Ali, I found it very insightful and I'm sure you would as well. Pete, thank you Ali, thank you so much for being with us on the Agile Innovation Leaders Podcast. It's a great pleasure to have you here.  Pete Newell  Thanks so much for the invite.  Ali Hawks  Yeah. Thank you for having us.  Ula Ojiaku Right, this is the second time ever in the history of my podcast that I'm having two people, two guests. The first time was fun, and I know this one would be as well, and informative. I always start with asking my guests to tell us a bit about themselves. So your background, any memorable happenings that shaped you into the person you are today?  Pete Newell  So I'm a retired army officer. I enlisted when I was 18 and was commissioned when I left college in the mid 80s. I spent most of my career as an Infantryman in tactical units. I spent a great bit of time in the Middle East and other war zones. Towards the end of my career, I ended up as the Director of the Army's Rapid Equipment Force, which is essentially the Skunk Works that was stood up at the start of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars to accelerate technology to solve problems that were emerging on the battlefield, that weren't part of something else, somewhere else. And in that three-year journey, it probably exposed me to first and foremost, the speed at which new problems are presenting themselves, not just on the battlefield, but in the rest of the world. It exposed me to the speed at which technology is changing, being adopted and then being adapted for other purposes. So it's almost like chasing technology as it changes is a whole new sport, and it exposed me to  the challenges of large bureaucratic organisations and their inability to keep up with the speed of the changes in order to remain competitive, whether it was on the battlefield or in the commercial markets or something like that. Those epiphanies really drove, first, my decision to retire from the military, because I became addicted to solving that problem, and second, drove the impetus to launch BMNT in 2013. And in fact, you are right square in the middle of our 10th anniversary of being a company. So it really is, I think, a big deal because we started with four people on a driveway in Palo Alto, California, now we're a global company with multiple companies and are grateful, but that's the history of how we got started.  Ula Ojiaku  Congratulations on your 10th anniversary, and it's an impressive background and story. Ali, what about you?  Ali Hawks  So, my background, a little bit different than Pete's, by training I was an academic, so my training and my PhD was in military sociology. I was really interested in understanding people's experiences in the armed forces, both in the US and the UK. That is what my PhD was focused around, my thesis, and I went on to be an academic at King's College London here in the UK. I've also been an Assistant Professor at Georgetown University in the School of Foreign Service. But it wasn't until I then took a job with the US DoD, in something called a Congressional Advisory Panel called the Section 809 Panel, which was tasked with overhauling all of defense acquisition, and that's where Pete and I met. I think one of those formative experiences in my career was meeting Pete and going to the non-profit that Pete started and spun out of BMNT, it's called the Common Mission Project with a really big program, Hacking for Defense, and Steve Blank also Co-founded that as you know, and Joe Felter. I went to an educator course for this program in Fort Belvoir as a part of my job to understand, could we take these types of methods and put them into congressional legislation or DoD regulation as a way to change how people think about problems? And when I met Pete, it was the intersection of all of the things that I really love, academia, entrepreneurship, defense and national security. I went up to Pete and pitched him and said, I want to take this back to the UK and launch it. That was the start of what has been thousands of conversations about the value that we can add both in the US and the UK.  I worked in some law firms before I did my Master's and my PhD, but mainly my career has been in academia.  Ula Ojiaku  Wow. Thanks for sharing. And would you say it was serendipity that made your paths to cross and how are you finding the journey so far?  Ali Hawks  I think, yes, I think it's serendipity. I have a really different life journey than Pete. And I think in my career at the time when I met Pete, I hadn't really found what it is, what I felt like my purpose should be, or hadn't really found passion or joy in my work to that day. I found things I loved, I loved academia and I love teaching, but it just still didn't hit all of those things that you kind of get up every day and are like, this is what I'm meant to do. And I had done a lot of work on reflecting of what that would feel like and what that would look like and the elements it had to have. So by the time I met Pete, it was almost as if someone was flashing a huge sign at me saying, don't miss your turn, this is your turn. So I think serendipity, but also really understanding what it is that I wanted to do and the type of people I wanted to work with and the journey so far. I'll hand over to Pete in a second, but it's been nothing short of incredible. Pete has an amazing reputation, but as a business partner and as a leader, he allows people to truly learn, experiment, make mistakes, and he pulls everyone along by building confidence and empowering people that work for him. So in terms of kind of coming from academia and becoming a researcher turned entrepreneur, it's been the most formative experience of my career. Being able to work along Pete is like being able to work alongside that kind of guide or that guru, and you're like, wow, I can't believe I get to talk to this person every week and learn from them and be in business with them. So that's how it's going for me. Pete, how's it going for you?  Pete Newell You know, Steve Blank and I had a long conversation about serendipity when he and I met 2015 and here's my advice in serendipity. It really is if you have an active curiosity and a willingness to say yes to things that you wouldn't normally, and you're not adverse to taking risk, the chances of serendipity smacking like lightning greatly go up. And then I go back to my first trip to Stanford University in 2011. Well, I was still a military officer and saying yes to a number of things that people asked me to do, and just one conversation after another led to a meeting with two guys who were Stanford graduate school instructors who were writing a book. Those two decided to write a chapter in that book about the work I was doing at the Rapid Equipment Force. Now, when Huggy Rao and Bob Sutton decided to write a book and hire a case study writer who spent six months digging into your life, you learn all kinds of things about yourself and about the world, and when that's followed by a chance coffee with Steve Blank, who had no idea who I was, and I had no idea who he was, that 15-minute coffee turned into a four-hour discussion between the two of us. I typically would not have been at the Fort Belvoir thing that Ali was at, and I think our meeting was very brief, but it was, I think, six months later when I found her in the library at Georgetown University at some social event and we both decided that we wanted her to do something, and we wanted to do something in the UK, and we wanted to see something between allied countries come together. There was no strategy or grand business development, there was nothing that drove those conversations. It was simply in the spur of the moment, the curiosity takes over and you start to say I can see where this might work. Now, Ali will be the first to tell you, it has not been easy, but it has been a privilege to work with her and to continue to work between the two governments and the countries to see absolutely brilliant things done. And so I just say, I come back to, it's that curiosity connected with the desire to, the willingness to accept a little bit of risk, but learning how to say yes to things that you're uncomfortable with and digging just a little bit more. That opens up that opportunity so much more.  Ula Ojiaku I could see, it's evident to me the way Ali was talking about working with you, Pete, and your leadership, I'm wondering, could there have been anything about your military background that has influenced your leadership style as a whole? Pete Newell Yeah, everything in my background does. I can tell you, even growing up as a kid that the way my parents raised me influenced me positively, and negatively in some cases. My military background, I have been fortunate to work for a group of fantastic military leaders, I spent time in the Special Operations community, I spent time working for Stan McChrystal, I spent time in the Pentagon working for brilliant people. I also worked for some of the absolute worst bosses in the entire world, and I rarely say this about people, they were just bad human beings, and I will tell you in many cases what I learned watching a leader in a just really horrible environment influenced me more than watching the really brilliant guys out there. If you think about it, it's really hard to pattern yourself after somebody who is brilliant and driven and successful and kind and they do all that, but I'll tell you what, you can look at somebody who is really a bad boss and say, I don't want to be like them, and it happens in an instant, that I do not ever want to be like that person. That teaches you a lot about the environment that you want to create that people are going to work in. I have some hard areas, and Ali will acknowledge some of them, in the way people are treated in the workplace. Also as a graduate of the Special Operations community, I have strong feelings about how high performing people should be allowed to perform, and also expectations of how they work. I think the military left me with a high degree of not just respect, but you want to hire people, there's a certain degree of dedication to their success, whether they stay in your company or whether they leave, or they go someplace else, whether they're challenged or something else. And I'll tell you, if there was something hard about transitioning from the military to the business world is, in the military, you're given people and you're told to make them successful no matter what. In the business world, you tend to just fire people who are unsuccessful and not invest time and energy in them. I have never been able to make that change, and it's a bit of a struggle sometimes, because in the business world, you can't afford to hang on to people who are subpar performers, if you want to run a high-performance organisation. So if there's one of the things that I have learned is I am challenged in letting somebody go because I see it as a personal failure if somebody fails to thrive in my organisation, that has been built and imprinted by my past. I think Ali has a very different opinion, because she comes from such a great different place. Here's the beauty of it, the work with people like Ali and some of the others, we can argue and disagree and fight like cats and dogs sometimes, but we still love each other, and it is still an absolutely amazing environment to work in. That's really what, if you get it right, that's what life's like.  Ula Ojiaku What's your view, Ali?  Ali Hawks So we clearly have different backgrounds, I think that I was a bit of a late bloomer in terms of leadership style. Being in academia, you're not really in a leadership position because you're responsible for yourself, and in a way, it's a really good test bed for being an entrepreneur, because in academia you have to have such thick skin, because you turn in your peer reviewed journal publications, you turn in your papers and people write back and slash, and no one's trying to make you feel good. In fact, they want to help you, but also they're quite competitive. So that was a really good proving ground for being able to develop the thick skin for critical feedback or any feedback and really all of the knocks that come with being an entrepreneur. What I took into starting BMNT here four years ago was, things that I took from Pete and from the U.S. was really allowing people and high performers to work in the way that they feel best. One of the things I hated when I was younger in certain jobs, and working in law firms is punching your time card at 8 am, and you punch out at 5, and an hour for lunch, and it never felt right that that was the way to measure someone's productivity or to really enhance or empower people. And so the way that I approach it is we consider everyone to be an adult and to do their job, and also to be as curious as possible. So on our Standup this morning, with two new team members coming back into BMNT, one of the things that we agreed on is if no one's asking for time off to be creative or to have a day or two days to read a book that will enhance their knowledge or make them a better BMNTer, then we're failing. If no one has asked for that time by the end of this calendar year. So the way that I really approach leadership is how can I empower, but also invest in every single person, because it's not me delivering the everyday work, it's the people in my company, so they're building it alongside of me. I hire smart young people who will give feedback and we action that feedback. So we change things based on what we get from a 23-year-old, so everyone in the company feels really valued. And I think, learning from Pete, is also being really honest and transparent with everyone in the company when your chips are down and you have to say, guys, this is what's going on, and I found it has built such a strong cohesion in the team that we have now, that this year going into it is the most excited I've ever been about running BMNT. So taking a lot of what I learned from Pete and also my own experiences of feeling really caged, actually, in most of my jobs, and being able to understand that people work in very different ways, and if you allow them to work in the ways that are best for them, you really do get the best of everyone.  Ula Ojiaku That's very inspiring and insightful. Now, there was something Pete said earlier on about you, Ali, walking up to him and sharing the vision that you wanted to take back what BMNT is doing to the UK and so what made you go for it, what pushed you towards that? Ali Hawks Again, it was a lot of work on my part of really understanding what I wanted to do, and when I approached Pete that day, I was really excited and exuberant and I said, I want to take this back to the UK and I want to run it. And Pete is, as you get to know him, he's very calm and he's quiet, and he kind of looked at me and he said, you should talk to some people. And I thought, okay, I'll go talk to people. So I went out and I talked to people and I got Pete on the phone a few weeks later and I said, Pete, this is my dream job, this is what I want to do. And Pete said, prove it, do a Business Model Canvas. So I then hung up the phone, I googled Business Model Canvas, I watched YouTube videos on how to complete it. I was still working at the 809 Panel, so I was getting up really early to talk to people back in the UK, make phone calls, pulling on all of my contacts because I've been in defense and national security for gosh, since 2009, and I was canvassing everyone I knew, I filled out the Business Model Canvas, I sent it to Pete, he was going to be in DC about a week later, and he wrote back saying we should meet. So we then met and had an initial conversation around what it could look like, but it really wasn't until as Pete said in that library at Georgetown for a reception that we came together and having had both time to think and think about what I put down in the Business Model Canvas, but also how we got along, I think, and gelled as business partners, we decided, let's do it. So when we said we didn't have a plan, I had an idea of what we could do, and I have unfailing determination to make things work, and so I just knew, and I think we both knew if we tried it, that something would come of it, and if not, we would learn a lot from it. So we went from there and it took a while before we got a plan, to be honest, but we got there. Ula Ojiaku Well, here you are. Ali Hawks Exactly. Pete Newell You know, if there's one thing I have learned as an entrepreneur is that the plan you thought you were going to have, is never the one you actually execute. So the faster you begin to test it, usually by talking to people and doing things, the faster you will get rid of bad ideas. And it's not about finding the good idea, but it's about creating all the ideas you could possibly have and then killing them off quickly so that you understand the core of the value that you think you're going to deliver. Everything after that is the mechanics of how to build a business. I mean, that's not easy stuff, when you're launching a company, more importantly when you're launching one in a country you haven't been in in a while, but getting there is really about getting the thought process moving and getting people to disabuse you of the notion that every idea you have is brilliant. Ula Ojiaku I mean, I agree setting up a business isn't easy. I can't imagine the additional challenge of setting it up in the defense sector, the Department of Defense in the US, Ministry of Defence here in the UK. What sort of things would you say would be the additional? Do you have to go through hurdles to go through approvals, clearances and all that? Ali Hawks From the MOD experience, it's less about clearances and those types of things, it's more about understanding, winding your way through what feels like a maze, to find the right stakeholders that you can bring together at the right time to make a decision. So while there are individuals that hold budgets and can make decisions, there's a constellation of people around them that need to be aligned in concert with that decision. If you went to a business, of course, you'll have to have a couple of people on board, but the time to sale or the cost to sale is relatively straightforward. When you go into the government, you have a group of highly motivated people, highly mission-driven people who experience the pain of their problems every day, and they are trying to fight just as hard as you are in order to change something for the better. So in the first instance, you have great allyship with your customers, because you have a shared mission, and you're both working towards it, which is fantastic. The second is really trying to understand if that person has the budget and they need to sign off on it, how much do they need to care about it, or is it their chief of staff that needs to really care about it? Or is it their engineer? So I would say the difference is the amount of discovery that you do and doing that stakeholder mapping, is fundamental to success, but also knowing that people change jobs in the civil service and the Armed Forces every few years, that is a critical skill as a business working with the government, that stakeholder mapping and that discovery with your customers, customer development never ends. So I think that that is the longest pole in the tent in terms of finding the right people, and sometimes people say that's the person that has authority, you go talk to them and they say, no, I don't have any authority, so it's really trying to wind your way through the maze to align those key stakeholders. Pete Newell I would add to what Ali said, is that it's like climbing into a very complicated Swiss watch and you need to understand not just how things work, but you need to understand why they work the way they do, and how they work with other things, and then you need to understand who's responsible for making them work and who the beneficiary of the work is, and who possibly might want to make them not work. So, Ali's comment on stakeholder development, it's at the heart of everything you do -- you talk about more sociology and anthropology than it is anything, it truly is understanding why things work the way they do and what drives people to behave one way versus another. Once you figure that out, then you can figure out how to motivate them to behave one way or another, and where you might fit to help them in their daily job or whatever else. But that stakeholder development and understanding who's in charge, who benefits, who doesn't benefit, why something might be counter to something else is so critical in any consulting business, but in particular, if you are trying to get something done inside a government organisation. It, in many cases, it's archaic, but it still operates underneath a very definitive culture that you can map if you've been at it long. Ula Ojiaku So BMNT, you help government organisations to solve hard problems at speed and at scale. Can you expand on this? Pete Newell It's both I think. I go back to my experience, way back in the Rapid Equipping Force and 2010 is first and foremost, there are tens of thousands of problems that prevent the government from doing what it wants to do. The government is challenged, first, in being able to identify those problems; second, in translating those problems into plain English that other people might understand; third, in using that translated thing to find ever bigger groups of people, to then redefine the problem one more time, so that it makes sense for the rest of the world; and fourth, creating the policies and process that will attract people to come to them and work with them to solve those problems fast enough to build a solution before the problem changes so much that the calculus is completely out of whack again. And in all this there's a complicated long answer, but the impedance difference between the speed at which you develop and acknowledge a problem and your ability to get people to work on it, if it's out of sync with the speed at which technology is being adopted and adapted, you will constantly be perfectly solving the wrong problem, and you'll be constantly delivering things that are antiquated before the day they land in somebody's hands, so that's really the speed issue. I go back to what I said about sociology. This is the speed of your ability to get people to come together to work on something, and then the scale is determining, scale how fast, and scale how big. The scale how fast is, I can start to deliver a solution to this, but I know the solution is going to change every 6 months. So I don't need to commit to building tens of thousands of these over a 5-year contract, but I do need to commit to changing what I deliver every 6 months, or this is going to scale to some big end and it goes into a much different system, you have to be ambidextrous about your approach to scale, and unfortunately most procurement laws, both the United States and in the UK are not built to be ambidextrous. They're built to do one thing and one thing very efficiently only. Unfortunately, that's not the way the world works anymore. Ula Ojiaku Any thoughts, Ali? Ali Hawks As Pete said, and as a sociologist, the most often thing, and I think Pete said this a long time ago when we first met, is the government doesn't have a tech adoption problem, it has a people problem, and a lot of our work, a lot of our customers will come and say they have a tech problem, and they have a huge degree of urgency, but the things that get in their way are they have no common language, and they have no repeatable and scalable process in which to think about and work on their problems. And the framework that we developed, the innovation pipeline, is that process for them to do it. It's not complicated, it's methodology agnostic, and so it allows you to develop an entire workforce around a common language of innovating, mission acceleration, agile transformation, whatever you want to do, recognising that people are at the heart of it. The Head of Innovation at UC Berkeley and during one of our Lean Innovators Summit, said something that has stuck with me for several years now, ad he said, and it really hit home with our customers, because sometimes when I first started BMNT here, I was such an evangelist that I forgot to listen to the customer. I was just so convinced that they needed what we had, and I think the customer was telling me something else and I would get frustrated, and when I heard this, it was resistance is rational. When we go into a room with a group of people, we usually have a customer who is an evangelist of ours, or an early adopter, a huge supporter, and they have a couple of other people who feel the same way they do about change and innovation and moving rapidly, and then 70 percent of the team don't feel that same way. So approaching it and really empathising with the customers and understanding resistance is rational, why would they want to change? Things for them work, the way that they have always done, it works, and that is a rational response. So being able to then develop a service where you're connecting with them and saying, I understand that, and that's a rational response, and then using tools, like one of my favourite tools, the Value Proposition Canvas, to really understand, what are the jobs to be done, and the pains and the gains, and when you speak in that type of language, there are so many times that I have seen this kind of aha moment of like, oh, so if I did that, then I wouldn't have to do this anymore, or I would be able to do this different thing. And this is not complicated, these are not complicated tools or processes we're talking about, but the common denominators of it are discipline, consistency, and hard work. And I think, coming off what Pete said, when you want to get pace and speed, you have to be consistent and you have to be disciplined, and people have to understand what you're saying in order to get over that resistance is rational piece. Pete Newell I think Ali's spot on in terms of the problem with the problem. Oftentimes is, we can put a problem in a room and 10 people work on it and get 10 different versions of the problem, and so part of the art that's involved in the process is to get a group of people to agree to a common definition of a problem and use the same words, because many times we're inventing new words. It's new technology, new problem, but the first thing we do is get everybody to say the same thing the same way, and then start to talk to other people about it, because part two of that is you learn that your problem is probably not the right problem, it's a symptom of something else, and that whole process of discovery is a very disciplined, I would say it's a scientific methodology applied to how we communicate with people. You have to get out and test your theory by talking to the right people in a big enough diverse crowd to truly understand that whether you're on the right track or the wrong track. That's hard work, it really is hard work, and it's even harder to get what I would say critical feedback from people in the process who will challenge your assumptions and will challenge your test, who will challenge the outcomes of that. That's what our team does such a great job of, working with customers to teach them how to do that, but listening to them and helping them come together. At the same time, we're looking at the quality of the work and because we're a third party, we can look over the shoulder and say I see the test, and I see the outcome, but I don't think your test was adequate, or I don't think you tested this in an environment that was diverse enough, that you may be headed down the wrong path. The customer can still decide to go with what they learn, but in most cases, at least they're getting honest feedback that should allow them to pause and relook something. Ali Hawks I think for this particular reason, this is why BMNT is a leader in this space, is because the kind of jurisdiction around that front end of the pipeline, of are we making sure that we're choosing from enough problems and we're not stuck with a couple of investments that might be bad, so to speak, really validating that problem to decide, is it worth working on, is this even progressible, does anyone care about it, can it technically be done, does the organisation care about it, before spending any money on investment. Now that front end of the pipeline is gradually becoming a stronger muscle, and I'll speak for the UK, is gradually becoming a stronger muscle because of the work that BMNT has done, and both in the US and the UK, there is incredibly strong muscle memory around experimentation and incubation, which is fantastic. There's a lot of structure around that and frameworks and a lot of common language, which is amazing, because when you have that developed, going back to the beginning to refine before you put into the machine, so to speak, that's where what we call curation, really validating that problem, that's a single most determining factor on whether a problem will transition to an adopted solution. Most of government starts in experimentation and incubation, so they don't get the benefit of de-risking investment in a solution, and they don't necessarily get the benefit of all the learning to expedite that into incubation and experimentation. So I think where BMNT comes out and really owns that area is in that front end of the pipeline, and when you do that front end, you would be amazed at how fast the other part of the pipeline goes through discover incubation experimentation, because you've increased confidence and really de-risked investment in the solution. Ula Ojiaku Thanks for sharing that Ali, would you say you're applying lean innovation amongst other things to the framework you're referring to, or would that be something else? Pete Newell No, I think that it's all part of the process. We use a variety of tools to get to the data we want, and then it's a matter of doing analysis, and this is why Ali's background as an academic is so critical, because she's keen on analysis, and looking at the data and not skewing the data one way or another, and that's an incredibly important skill in this process. Again, this is really the application of a scientific methodology, and you need to be able to do that, but you need to understand how to get the data. So whether it's Lean or it's Scrum or it's some Google tool or something else. We have become really adaptive in the use of the tools and a mixture of the tools to drive a community of people to create the data we need to make an assessment of whether something's going the right direction or not. And that's the beauty of being involved with the Lean Innovation Educators Forum, the beauty of the time we spend with folks like Alex Osterwalder or with Steve Blank or with the folks from the d.school at Stanford or any of those places that are developing tools. It is understanding how to use and adopt the tool to fit the circumstances, but at the end of the day, it's all about creating the data you need to use the analysis that will drive an insight, that will allow you to make a decision. Too often I find people who are just overly enamoured with the tool and they forget that the tool is just a tool. It's about data, insight, and decisions, and you have to get to a decision at some point. Ula Ojiaku Data, insight, decisions. Amazing. So, if we shift gears a little bit and go into your Strategic Innovation Project, SIP, I understand that one of the shifts you're driving in the DoD and MoD respectively is about their approach to involving private investment in defence technology. Could you share a bit more about that? Pete Newell As part of the innovation pipeline, you have to eventually transition out of the discovery phase and at the end of discovery, you should know that you have the right problem. You have a potential solution and you have a potential pathway that will allow you to deliver that solution in time to actually have an impact on the problem. At that point, you start incubating that solution, and if it's a tech or a product, then you're talking about either helping a company build the right thing, or you're talking about starting a new company, and that new company will have to do the thing. Our work in terms of early-stage tech acceleration is really now focused on what we call dual-use technologies. Those technologies that are required to solve a problem in the military, but also have a digital twin in the commercial world. There has to be a commercial reason for the company being built that's actually going to solve the problem, and so as we looked at that, we found really interesting conversations with investors in the United States and then eventually overseas who were looking for a way to help defense get the technologies it wanted, but have portfolios that don't allow them to just invest in a defense technology, and they were looking for an opportunity to engage one, with like-minded investors, but two, in honest conversations about problems that existed in the military and in the commercial world so they can make better decisions about the deployment of their capital to create the right companies. I think it's probably been five years now we've been working on the hypothesis around this. we started to develop a very strong language around dual-use investments in early-stage tech acceleration and adoption, and we started to build new tools inside government programs, as well as new groups of investors and other folks who wanted to be involved. All that was fine in the United States, but then we found it was a slightly different application outside the United States, particularly in Europe, which is not necessarily the most Startup friendly environment in the world in terms of investment, but at the same time, understanding that the United States has an unequalled appetite for technology to the point where that technology doesn't necessarily exist within the United States, nor do the best opportunities to test that technology exist for the United States, so we had to come up with a way that would allow us to do the same type of investigation with our allies, which turns into this incredible opportunity amongst allied nations and companies and vendors and things like that. And I know that from Ali's standpoint, watching NATO DIANA and other programs start, that it is more challenging, it's a different environment in Europe than it is in the United States. Ali Hawks Picking up there and in terms of the way that we think about investment, and what Pete is talking about is a program we run called Hacking 4 Allies. We currently work with Norway and take dual-use Norwegian Startups into our incubator and accelerator called H4XLabs in the US and we help them enter the US defense market and the commercial market, and one of the things that we're starting to see over here is it is a pathway that doesn't really exist in Europe. So when we think about NATO's DIANA, what DIANA is focused on, which is dual-use and deep tech and what they are overly focused on, and I think is correct, is how do you raise investment in the countries themselves to help booster a whole range of effects around being able to raise money within the country? Ultimately, though, and a lot of what DIANA was doing, in terms of the concept and its focus on dual-use and deep tech, was before the invasion of Ukraine, and so at that time before that, I think in terms of the NATO Innovation Fund and thinking about investment and NATO, it wasn't as comfortable with dual-use and investing in dual-use as the US is, not only is the US comfortable, but you have things like we helped a private capital fund, where people feel a great deal of patriotism, or that it's a part of their service to be able to contribute in that way. That feeling doesn't exist, it exists here, but it manifests itself in a different way, and it doesn't manifest itself as let's invest in dual-use technologies to help our defense and national security. So there's different understandings and cultural feelings towards those things. Now, having had the invasion of Ukraine and now the war in Israel and Gaza and now in Yemen, I think that the change is accelerating, insofar as what are the capabilities that we need to rapidly develop within NATO to be able to feel secure on our borders, and what type of investment does that take? Now, US investment in Europe has dropped about 22 percent in 2023, and so they're a little bit nervous about investing in these companies, and so the strength that being able to change the investment paradigm, which is ultimately, the companies that are going to receive the investment from the NATO Innovation Fund and NATO DIANA, they want to develop in the country, but ultimately all of those companies and their investors want them to get to a bigger market, and that bigger market is the US. So, what we are able to do is to connect real dollars, government dollars and commercial dollars, to those companies. We are one of the only pathways outside of export regimes for the Department of International Trade here in the UK. We are one of the only private pathways that has not only been tested and proved, but that we are able to take more companies year on year, take them to the US and prove that model. Now that's really exciting, especially as we see some of the investment declining, because we're able to identify those companies, we're able to connect them to problems that matter that people are trying to solve, develop the use cases, and then help them on the commercialisation side of things in terms of going into a new market. I think that the way that we think about investment in the US from a BMNT perspective, and the US is a little bit different from Europe and the UK, but the exciting thing is now that we have this proven pathway to enhance and accelerate concepts like DIANA and the NATO Innovation Fund. Ula Ojiaku So it sounds to me like it's not just about the localised investment into the innovation, it's also about BMNT building pathways, so European Startups, for example, that want an inroad into the US, maybe vice versa. Pete Newell I think the AUKUS DIN, the Defense Investor Network really is the collection of the US Investor Network, the UK and Australia. All three countries had Defense Investor Networks that had been set up over the last several years and primarily focused on, one, allowing investors to engage other investors about topics that are of common interest when it comes to this dual-use paradigm; and two, being able to engage with people in the government about things the investors were concerned about. I'm very clear when I talk about the Defense Investor Network, it is about defense investors, not about the government's problem. I've had to redefine that multiple times, as this is about enabling investors to be more proactive and participate in building the right kinds of companies, not about the government telling investors what they need to do, or the government telling the investors how they need to do it. It really, it was built from the investor perspective, and then we found is that the investors were prolifically honest about their feedback to senior people in the government, which I think has been hard for people in the government to get that kind of feedback, but when an investor with a portfolio of 30 and 40 companies looks at the government and says, I will never do it the way you just described, and here's why. Until you change that quantity, it makes no sense for us to participate, invest in, do, you'd be amazed. Sometimes it is the first time somebody's been able to articulate why something isn't going to happen, and then people nod their heads, well, I'll quit asking for that, or I'll go back and change something to see what it is we can do. So, we went from Hacking 4 Allies, which started out as a BMNT program with the Norwegians, to Hacking 4 Allies with the UK, Australia, Norway. At the same time, we had set up the Defense Investor Network, but as soon as we started the Allies program in the UK, the UK-based investors raised their hands and said, what you're doing in the United States, we want to do here, and then the same thing happened in Australia. When they made the AUKUS announcement, it just made too much sense to be able to look at, if we really want a free flow of technology and problems across the AUKUS governments, then surely we should be building ecosystems of like-minded people who can help drive those conversations. So it was super, super easy to bring the AUKUS Investor Network together, it was just too easy. The part that I think is not so easy, but we need to do work on is we, those investors need to be fed problems that are of an AUKUS nature, and at the same time, the governments need to listen to the investors when they tell them they have problems investing in companies that aren't allowed to participate in exercise or training or contracting or acquisitions in a different country, and if you really want to make AUKUS a real thing, there are a lot of policies that have to change. There's been a lot of progress made, but I think there's a lot more left to do to, to really get the opportunity to happen. Ula Ojiaku And would you say some of the problems would be related to what government officials would call national security, because if it's a dual-use spec, whilst it has its secular or commercial use, in the military, you wouldn't want other people knowing how you're deploying that technology and the ins and outs of it. So could that be one of the issues here? Pete Newell My definition of national security really touches public safety all the way up to military, so it's both. I think if you dig into it, it touches everything from supply chain, to access, to raw materials, to manufacturing, to education and workforce development, and you name it. There's a paradigm shift that has to happen if we're going to build more things, more often rather than long term ships and things like that, that as allied nations, we have to be able to attack all of the underlying foundational problems, and that's my supply chain, raw materials, manufacturing, and workforce that's necessary for the future. No one country is going to get that fixed all by themselves, and I think, to me, that's the absolute brilliance of what AUKUS should be able to focus on. Ali Hawks I agree, and I think that to being able to co-invest as well, the opportunity for investors to come around and understand what are the opportunities to, not only co-invest and coordinate, but to be able to scan their companies and their deal flow to see where their companies can partner and secure greater work and contracts and scale. So I think that it's a really important initiative in terms of being a steward of an extremely important ecosystem, not only being a steward, but being able to build that ecosystem of support and development. How we look at national security in the UK is really no different than what Pete talked about, and when we think about working with companies and the willingness to work with big tech companies or small tech companies or whatever it is, it's not just simply one transaction where, here's the money and here's your software. So obviously the kind of employment and the skills, but what is the ecosystem around that technology that is necessary? Does it require sensors and chips, and what is it that it requires that's going to bring in multiple different industries to support it, and that's really what the agenda here around prosperity is. How do we invest in these types of technologies and their ecosystems around it to have a more prosperous Britain? So you have a wider spread of skills as opposed to just investing in one thing. I think that's where AUKUS brings three very important allies together to be able to do that individually, but then the option to do it across in terms of the broader strategy and the policy around AUKUS, is a once in a lifetime chance that I think has come up. Ula Ojiaku So I think the key thing here is, this is a space to be watched, there's lots of opportunity and the potential of having the sum being greater than the parts is really huge here. One last question on this topic. So you said deep tech, and with Open AI's launch of ChatGPT earlier on last year, the world seems to have woken up to, generative AI. Do you see any influence this trend would have, or is having, in the military space in the Defense Innovation space. Pete Newell I think the world has woken up and is staring into the sun and is blinded. The challenge with AI in general, and I would say that it's not the challenge, AI has a long way to go, and by and large, folks are really focused on the high end of what AI can do, but people have to learn how to use AI and AI has to learn. What we're not doing is using AI to solve the mundane, boring, time wasting problems that are preventing our workforce from doing the high end work that only a human being can do, and I don't care how many billions of dollars we're pouring into building robots and other things, it's all great, but we still have government people managing spreadsheets of data that, they become data janitors, not analysts, and it is particularly bad in the intelligence world. I quote the Chief Information Officer of a large logistics agency who said data is not a problem, we have tons of data, it's just crappy, it's not tagged, it's not usable, we have data going back to the 1950s, we have no means of getting that data tagged so it's useful. Now, if we put time and energy into building AI products that would correctly tag old data, it'd be amazing what we can do. In the cases that we have helped develop tools with our clients, they'll save anywhere from a million to 300 million dollars a year in finding discrepancies in supply chain stuff, or finding other issues. So imagine if we put that kind of work in place for other people, but free people up to do more, better, smarter things, how much more efficient the use of the government's time and money would be, so that that money and that time could be invested in better things. So when I say, yeah, the AI is out there and people's eyes are open, but they're staring into the sun. They're not looking at the ground in front of them and solving the things that they could be solving at the speed they should be doing it, and unfortunately, I think they're creating a gap where legacy systems are being left further and further behind, but those legacy systems, whether it's finance, personnel, supply chain, discipline, things like that, aren't going to be able to make the transition to actually be useful later on. So I would describe it as an impending train wreck. Ula Ojiaku And what would be, in your view, something that could avert this oncoming train wreck. Pete Newell I think a concerted effort, really just to have the government say we're going to use AI to get rid of as much of the legacy brute force work that our populations are doing so that we can free them up to do other things. Part of this is we're then going to take the money we save and channel that money back into investment in those organisations. Right now, the money just goes away, that's great, you did better, therefore, your budget's reduced. There's no incentive to get better that way, but if you look at an organisation and say, you know, if you can save 10 million dollars a year, we'll give you that 10 million dollars to reinvest back into your organisation to do better and something else. Now, you have some incentive to actually make change happen. Ula Ojiaku Any thoughts, Ali? Ali Hawks I think the exciting thing for us, the way that I look at it in terms of government is that that government enablement to be able to use AI, here they are building large language models for the government based on the data that they have, and there's a lot of excitement around it and there should be. It's a pretty exciting thing to do. I think where we're in a really strong position and what I find really exciting is being able to do what we do best, which is help them understand what is the query and how do you validate that query? So what are the basic skills that you need to be able to interact, and then to be able to retain the skills of critical analysis, so when the answer comes back, you do not take that as the end all be all. It is a tool. So within your decision-making process, it's decreasing the amount of time it takes you to gather a certain amount of information, but just as you would if you were doing a book report, you still have to validate the sources and understanding, and you have to apply your own judgment and your own experience to that packet of information, which is what we all do every day, but it's not really thought about that way. So I think that the way that people are looking at it here is it will be able give us the decision and it will be able to kind of do our job for us, and for some tools, yes, and I completely agree that we need to free up all of the mundane work that hoovers up the time of civil servants here, because it's extraordinary how they're bogged down, and it completely disempowers them and it contributes to low retention rates and recruitment rates. But I think also it's developing the muscle to be able to do that critical thinking in order to leverage human intelligence to engage with artificial intelligence. And I think that's where we are uniquely positioned to do that because that is the bulk of our work on the front end of the pipeline, which is how are you going to validate what you know, how are you going to get the problem statement in order to query what you need to query and then having the judgment and the analysis to be able to look at that answer and make a decision, based on your own human intellect. That's where I see it playing here. I completely agree with Pete, we have people looking into the sun being like LLMs and they're going to solve everything, but you sit, let's say a hundred people down in front of an LLM and tell me how many people know what to ask it, or how to use it and integrate it into their everyday workflow. There's a long way to go, but I feel really excited about it because I feel like we have something so incredible to offer them to be able to enhance their engagement with AI. Ula Ojiaku That sounds excellent, thank you. Just to go to the rapid fire questions. So, Ali, what books have you found yourself recommending to people the most? Ali Hawks So I don't read a lot of work books, in terms of like how to run a company or anything like that, sorry, Pete, but, and I have a 4-year-old and three stepchildren, so I don't actually read as much as I used to, but I have read over in the last few weeks, the book Impromptu by Reid Hoffman about AI, which is great, and I listen to a lot of podcasts on my commute into London, so the Huberman Lab podcast I listen to a lot, but if you're looking for workplace inspiration, I'm afraid I look at Instagram, listen to podcasts, and then I follow Allie K. Miller, who writes a lot about AI, came out of Amazon, and she is fantastic for breaking things down into really bite sized chunks if you're trying to learn about AI, if you don't come from a technical background. Ula Ojiaku Thanks, Ali, we'll put these in the show notes. And Pete, what about you? Pete Newell I will give you two new books. One of them is a fun one, Wiring the Winning Organization written by Gene Kim and Steven Spear. Steve Spear is a good friend of ours, he's been a great mentor and advisor inside BMNT for a long time, I've known Steve since way back in my early days. The other one is by Huggy Rao and Bob Sutton, and it's called The Friction Project, and it's just like you say, it's all about friction in the workplace. I think both of those books tend to lend themselves to how to drive performance in organisations, and I think, knowing all of the authors, that they are phenomenal books, but I think the experience the four of them bring to the dialogue and the discussion of what the future workplace needs to look like and the things we need to solve will all be buried in those books. In terms of podcasts, I'm all over the map, I chase all kinds of things that I don't know. I listen to podcasts about subjects that I'm clueless about that just spark my interest, so I wouldn't venture to pick any one of them except yours, and to make sure that people listen to yours. Ula Ojiaku You're very kind, Pete. Well, because you're on it, they definitely would. Would you both be thinking about writing a book sometime, because I think your story has been fascinating and there are lots of lessons Pete Newell Only if Ali would lead it. So I have picked up and put down multiple proposals to write books around the innovation process within the government and other places, and part of the reason I keep stopping is it keeps changing. I don't think we're done learning yet, and I think the problem writing a book is you're taking a snapshot in time. One of the things that we are very focused on for the military, we talk about doctrine, what is the language of innovation inside the government workplace? It's the thing that we keep picking up, we've helped at least one government organisation write their very first innovation doctrine, the Transportation Security Administration of all places, the very first federal agency to produce a doctrine for innovation that explains what it is, why it is connected to the mission of the organisation, and describes a process by which they'll do it. I think within the Ministry of Defence, Department of Defense, there needs to be a concerted effort to produce a document that connects the outcome of innovation to the mission of the organisation. We call that mission acceleration. We look at innovation as a process, not an end state. The end state is actually mission acceleration. There's probably a really interesting book just to be written about Ali's journey, and I say more Ali's journey than mine because I think as a woman founder of a defence company in the UK, all of the characters in the book are completely unlikely. So somewhere down the road, maybe. Ula Ojiaku Well, I'm on the queue waiting for it, I will definitely buy it. So where can the listeners and viewers find you if, if they want to get in touch? Ali Hawks We're both on LinkedIn, so Pete Newell, Ali Hawks, our emails too are on our various websites, bmnt.com, bmnt.co.uk. Ula Ojiaku Awesome. Any final words for the audience? Pete Newell I'll say thank you again for one, having us. Like I said, it's the first opportunity Ali and I have had to be on a podcast together. Any opportunity I get to engage with the folks and have this conversation is a gift. So thank you for giving us the time. Ula Ojiaku My pleasure. Ali Hawks Yes, Ula, thanks very much for having us on together. It's been great. Ula Ojiaku I've enjoyed this conversation and listening to you both. So thank you so much. The pleasure and the honour is mine. That's all we have for now. Thanks for listening. If you liked this show, do subscribe at www.agileinnovationleaders.com or your favourite podcast provider. Also share with friends and do leave a review on iTunes. This would help others find this show. I'd also love to hear from you, so please drop me an email at ula@agileinnovationleaders.com Take care and God bless! 

This week we're joined by both authors of ⁠The Friction Project⁠. Bob Sutton is a Stanford Professor, organizational researcher, and best-selling author. His seven management books include bestsellers The No A**hole Rule, Good Boss, Bad Boss, and (with Huggy Rao) Scaling Up Excellence.  Huggy Rao is also a Stanford Professor of organizational behavior, a best-selling author and a highly accomplished researcher with more accolades than will tightly fit in this intro.  Together they consult with some of the biggest brands and leaders in the world to eliminate friction, the mundane, the unnecessary and above all the meeting that could have been a Slack message. 

As a nonprofit leader, you navigate the complexities of managing time, resources, staff, and your board. Today's guest, Huggy Rao, wants you to create friction within your organization that makes the right things easier and the wrong things harder. Huggy and Dolph dive into practical strategies for reducing 'bad friction' that wastes time and energy, while advocating for 'good friction' that fosters deliberation and educated decisions. This episode is a must-listen for nonprofit executives seeking actionable advice on enhancing organizational efficiency and culture. Huggy Rao is co-author of  the best-selling book “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder,” and other best-selling books. And as a distinguished professor at Stanford Business School, Huggy has also authored “Scaling Up for Excellence” and “Market Rebels.”  This episode answers the following questions: What is 'bad friction' and how can it be identified and removed? How does 'good friction' benefit an organization? What are the impacts of time poverty and addition bias on organizational efficiency? How can nonprofit leaders effectively manage both types of friction? What simple steps can be taken to make work easier? Links mentioned in this episode: Huggy's Website Friction Project's Co-Author Buy the book The Friction Project  Huggy's LinkedIn Page  Looking for more? Check out these amazing episodes: Ep 180: Creating a Strong Back Office with Sean Hale [Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website with show notes] Ep 277: Make the Most of Your Time with Shanice Miller [Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website with show notes)

Professors Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao visit Google to discuss their book “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.” This book is a useful guide to eliminating the forces that make it harder, more complicated, or downright impossible to get things done in organizations. Every organization is plagued by destructive friction. Yet some forms of friction are incredibly useful, and leaders who attempt to improve workplace efficiency often make things even worse. Drawing from seven years of hands-on research, Sutton and Rao teach readers how to become “friction fixers.” Sutton and Rao unpack how skilled friction fixers think and act like trustees of each others' time. They provide friction forensics to help readers identify where to avert and repair bad organizational friction and where to maintain and inject good friction. The heart of the book digs into the causes and solutions for five of the most common and damaging friction troubles: oblivious leaders, addition sickness, broken connections, jargon monoxide, and fast & frenzied people and teams. Sound familiar? Sutton and Rao are here to help. They wrap things up with lessons for leading your own friction project, including linking little things to big things; the power of civility, caring, and love for propelling designs and repairs; and embracing the mess that is an inevitable part of the process. Visit http://youtube.com/TalksAtGoogle/ to watch the video.

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Huggy Rao, a distinguished professor at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, shares profound insights on the concept of workplace friction and its impact on organizational dynamics. Huggy's extensive research and expertise in organizational behavior and management bring a unique perspective to the discussion, emphasizing the critical role of leaders in managing workplace obstacles effectively. Throughout the episode, Huggy dissects the complexities of workplace friction, from the detrimental effects of time poverty on decision-making to the strategic implementation of good and bad obstacles in organizations.  His compelling anecdotes and practical examples underscore the need for leaders to navigate obstacles thoughtfully and promote a balanced approach to friction management. By delving into the nuances of adding and subtracting friction in decision-making and problem-solving contexts, Huggy provides invaluable guidance for managers and leaders seeking to optimize employee engagement and drive organizational success. This episode is a must-listen for managers and leaders in organizations looking to enhance decision-making processes, foster a culture of curiosity and generosity, and strategically manage workplace friction for improved performance and employee well-being. In this episode: Analyze workplace friction to identify and overcome organizational obstacles, enhancing team productivity and efficiency. Improve decision-making by understanding the impact of time poverty and implementing effective time management strategies for enhanced productivity. Recognize the importance of both good and bad obstacles in the workplace, and learn how to leverage them to foster growth and innovation within the organization. Implement proven strategies for reducing workplace friction, leading to a more harmonious and collaborative work environment. Foster creativity by embracing and managing constructive friction in the workplace, unlocking the full potential of your team's innovative capabilities. Show Notes: 00:00:00 - Introduction, Dr. Huggy Rao introduces the concept of friction in organizations and its impact on decision making and productivity. Explains the difference between bad friction and good friction. 00:02:28 - Impact of Friction on Decision Making Huggy discusses the impact of time poverty and the addition bias on decision making in organizations. Emphasizes the importance of removing bad obstacles and introducing good obstacles to improve productivity. 00:12:36 - Importance of Addressing Small Friction Huggy shares the example of reducing a single mouse click for nurses in hospitals and its significant impact on saving time. Emphasizes the importance of addressing small friction to gain momentum for addressing larger issues. 00:14:15 - Mowing the Lawn in Organizations Huggy discusses the concept of "mowing the lawn" in organizations, addressing small issues that are often overlooked. Shares examples of companies saving significant time by focusing on small friction and giving the gift of time back to employees. 00:16:05 - Introducing Good Friction Huggy discusses the importance of introducing good friction to prevent bad friction in organizations. Shares a case study of AstraZeneca saving 2 million hours to give the gift of time back to employees, resulting in improved productivity and service. 00:16:59 - Adding and Subtracting Friction Huggy discusses the importance of adding constraints to combat the tendency to constantly add. He shares examples of how adding friction can be beneficial in decision-making, creativity, and complex tasks. 00:17:46 - The Value of Good Friction Huggy highlights the value of good friction in decision-making, creative work, and complex tasks. He emphasizes the need to add obstacles to slow down decisions and foster deliberation in certain situations. 00:19:22 - Friction Forensics The concept of friction forensics is introduced, with examples such as the five-person investment committee at Andreas and Horowitz and the importance of constraints in the creative process. Huggy Rao also shares examples of adding friction to prevent the wrong actions, such as in a banking scenario. 00:24:15 - Constructive Friction in Healthcare Huggy discusses the use of constructive friction in healthcare, citing the example of how a simple ten-minute memo requirement for opioid prescriptions significantly reduced opioid prescriptions in the state of Massachusetts. 00:27:59 - Reducing Bad Friction Huggy highlights examples of reducing bad friction for customers, such as the trail guide at the DMV and the introduction of self-operated kiosks at local grocery stores for DMV transactions. He also discusses the use of AI to help reduce friction for network engineers in a large networking company. 00:33:05 - The Impact of Jargon Monoxide Huggy and Melina discuss the concept of jargon monoxide and its negative impact on curiosity and generosity. They highlight the importance of reframing jargon to make messages more accessible and meaningful. 00:34:47 - The Power of Clear Communication Huggy shares a powerful story about a submarine company CEO who effectively communicated his vision to the employees without using any jargon. The example emphasizes the importance of clear communication and the impact it can have on organizational culture. 00:39:41 - The Role of Profanity in Communication Huggy discusses how profanity can sometimes be more effective in ensuring everyone understands a message, compared to using complex jargon or vague phrases. He shares a humorous example to illustrate this point. 00:43:28 - The Help Pyramid for Friction Fixing Huggy explains the "help pyramid" framework for addressing friction in organizations, from reframing communication to organizational and neighborhood design. He emphasizes the need to focus on practical solutions rather than psychologizing the consequences of friction. 00:47:40 - Making Work Less of a Grind Huggy encourages readers to visit his website and engage with the content from the book "The Friction Project," emphasizing the goal of making the world of work less of a grind by becoming more choiceful in addressing friction. 00:49:20 - The Power of Generosity and Curiosity Huggy and Melina discuss the importance of curiosity and generosity in reducing friction. Being curious about the user and focusing on their needs is an act of generosity that can lead to reciprocity and desired actions. 00:50:03 - Impact of Friction on User Experience They emphasize the significance of considering the user's perspective and minimizing unnecessary friction. Being generous by making processes easier for the user can lead to desired outcomes, such as form completion or product purchase. 00:50:41 - Leveraging Friction for Business Strength Huggy and Melina explore how businesses can use friction to their advantage, either by removing it or adding it strategically. They discuss the potential for friction to strengthen businesses and drive success. 00:51:10 - Conclusion, Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let's connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Connect with Huggy: Huggyrao.com Bobsutton.net  X Learn and Support The Brainy Business: Check out and get your copies of Melina's Books.  Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: The Friction Project, by Robert Sutton and Huggy Rao Sludge, by Cass Sunstein Friction, by Roger Dooley Presuasion, by Robert Cialdini What Your Employees Need and Can't Tell You, by Melina Palmer Top Recommended Next Episode: Sludge (ep 384) Already Heard That One? Try These:  The Ikea Effect (ep 380) Roger Dooley Interview (ep 274) Leidy Klotz Interview (ep 322) Robert Cialdini Interview (ep 312) Framing (ep 296) Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina's LinkedIn Newsletter

Every organisation is clogged with destructive friction – from convoluted meetings to antiquated technologies – that chips away at “our initiative, commitment and zest for work”. That's the contention at the centre of a new book from Stanford professors Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao, which aims to teach people how to "live like a friction fixer".This week on Leadership Lessons, Sutton shares some of the tips and tricks he and Rao learnt over the course of seven years spent researching the book. Plus, you might not know them by these names but they'll probably be familiar: this episode also features discussion of jargon monoxide, power poisoning and decision amnesia. Credits:Presenter: Antonia Garrett PeelProducer: Til OwenArtwork: David Robinson#management #leadership Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How smart leaders make the right things easier and the wrong things harder. • Subscribe to our newsletter • Download our app • Join our club (and use code DAILY for a special discount)

Every organization is plagued by destructive friction—the forces that make it harder, more complicated, or downright impossible to get anything done. Yet some forms of friction are incredibly useful, and leaders who attempt to improve workplace efficiency often make things even worse. Drawing from seven years of hands-on research, The Friction Project by bestselling authors Robert I. Sutton and Huggy Rao teaches readers how to become “friction fixers,” so that teams and organizations don't squander the zeal, damage the health, and throttle the creativity and productivity of good people—or burn through cash and other precious resources.  Sutton and Rao kick off the book by unpacking how skilled friction fixers think and act like trustees of others' time. They provide friction forensics to help readers identify where to avert and repair bad organizational friction and where to maintain and inject good friction. Then their help pyramid shows how friction fixers do their work, which ranges from reframing friction troubles they can't fix right now so they feel less threatening to designing and repairing organizations. The heart of book digs into the causes and solutions for five of the most common and damaging friction troubles: oblivious leaders, addition sickness, broken connections, jargon monoxide, and fast and frenzied people and teams. Sound familiar?  Sutton and Rao are here to help.  They wrap things up with lessons for leading your own friction project, including linking little things to big things; the power of civility, caring, and love for propelling designs and repairs; and embracing the mess that is an inevitable part of the process (while still trying to clean it up).***The Burleson Box is brought to you by Retainer Club:Realize new revenue in your practice this year with Retainer Club! Upgrading your retainer program has never been more straightforward. Patients want online and easy. You want simple and profitable. Retainer Club gives you both. Built by dental professionals, Retainer Club's technology platform is built to manage everything about your retainer program including billing, retainer fulfillment, KPI data and more.Retainer Club's customized Smile Care Plan allows you to offer a flexible membership program that brings 5 new revenue streams to grow your practice. Retainer Club's platform gives patients access to easy, fast, affordable online retainer ordering 24/7, and regular retainer replacement without ever having to call your office.On average, a Smile Care Plan can increase your practice revenue by $100,000 annually. We have built our program with first-hand industry insights to support the needs of practices and DSOs from the ground up. From on-boarding and client success planning to tech-enabled marketing solutions to support new patient growth, Retainer Club has you covered. Get started today at RetainerClub.com***Resources Mentioned in the Episode with Bob Sutton:Subtract by Leidy KlotzBobSutton.netThe Friction ProjectEd Catmull at PixarAndy Grove at IntelIdeo'Armeetingeddon' at DropBoxJAMA 2019 study on doctor time allocation***Go Premium: Members get early access, ad-free episodes, hand-edited transcripts, exclusive study guides, special edition books each quarter, powerpoint and keynote presentations and two tickets to Dustin Burleson's Annual Leadership Retreat.http://www.theburlesonbox.com/sign-up Stay Up to Date: Sign up for The Burleson Report, our weekly newsletter that is delivered each Sunday with timeless insight for life and private practice. Sign up here:http://www.theburlesonreport.com Follow Dustin Burleson, DDS, MBA at:http://www.burlesonseminars.com

Within any business, although we typically aim for efficiency and ease, we often end up with systems, processes, and norms that create friction. Friction can slow us down and negatively impact both progress and morale. Dr. Robert I. Sutton, Stanford professor and co-author of the recent book, The Friction Project, has studied friction within enterprises and has accumulated significant wisdom around this concept. In this Tugboat Institute® talk, Bob explores the different types of friction, the common causes of friction, and some effective remedies for removing bad friction from our work. While not all friction is negative, the majority of it is. Happily, Bob and his co-author Huggy Rao have identified some effective tools and strategies to help find and neutralize it. Contrary to what our instincts tell us, the best approach is not thinking about what we can create or add to combat friction, but rather what we can take away. Watch and be inspired to look for and eliminate friction within your organization.

Do you feel like you're hitting a wall at work? This week, Anne and Frances are joined by Master Fixers Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao. Bob and Huggy are professors at Stanford University and authors of “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder”. Together, the four discuss how anyone can eliminate the obstacles to doing their best work—and create constraints that make work even better. Transcripts for Fixable are available at go.ted.com/fixablescripts.

Why resistance isn't always a bad thing.Friction — that's Professor Huggy Rao's metaphor for the forces that hamper workplace efficiency. But as he says, some friction can be helpful — if you know how to use it.In his book, The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, Rao and coauthor Robert I. Sutton explore how operational obstacles show up in the workplace and, more importantly, what we can do about them. Through what Rao calls “friction fixing,” leaders can “take out the bad friction to make the right things easy to do [and] put in good friction to make the wrong things harder [to do].”As Rao discusses with host Matt Abrahams on this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, leaders can eliminate bad friction through good communication. “Communication matters a lot,” he says. “The simple rule is, make sure a 10-year-old can understand it on the first try.”Episode Reference Links:Huggy Rao: Website Huggy's Books: The Friction Project, Scaling Up Excellence, & Market Rebels Huggy's Successful Communication Recipe - “Ah! Aha! Haha!” by Ramji Raghavan Ep.14: Be Better at Work: How to Communicate Better with Coworkers and Employees: Website / YouTubeConnect:Email Questions & Feedback >>> thinkfast@stanford.eduEpisode Transcripts >>> Think Fast Talk Smart WebsiteNewsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>> FasterSmarter.ioThink Fast Talk Smart >>> LinkedIn Page, Instagram, YouTubeMatt Abrahams >>> LinkedInStanford GSB >>> LinkedIn & TwitterChapters:(00:00:00) IntroductionHost Matt Abrahams introduces guest, Huggy Rao, and his latest book on the importance of focusing on friction to become our best selves.(00:01:24) Scaling Mindsets and CommunicationInsights on scaling excellence and the critical role of simple communication in fostering the right mindset.(00:04:28) AstraZeneca: Scaling SimplificationA case study on simplification efforts at AstraZeneca & the gift of time that they gave their employees.(00:08:49) Understanding Friction: Terrible and WonderfulThe dual nature of friction, highlighting its role as both a hindrance and a catalyst for decision-making. (00:11:05) Jargon MonoxideComplicated jargon's impact on organizations, and the need for simplicity in communication.(00:13:03) The Art of StorytellingThe benefits & goals of storytelling, creating moral elevation & emotional connection.(00:15:12) Job Titles and AccountabilityAn experiment on the impact of personalized job titles on team performance and accountability in tech startups and the introduction of “good friction”.(00:17:57) The Final Three QuestionsHuggy shares his strategy for reducing friction in his life, a story about the communicator he most admires, Saul Alinsky, and his three ingredients for a successful communication recipe, Aah! Aha! Ha-Ha!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Few things at work are more frustrating than tedious bureaucracy – and few things make employees happier than when their managers get rid of it. Isabel Berwick speaks to Huggy Rao, professor of organisational behaviour at Stanford, and co-author of 'The Friction Project,' to find out how managers can become 'shit-fixers', clearing unnecessary obstacles from the path of their teams, while making sure they don't go too fast for their own good. Later, Isabel speaks to FT senior business writer Andrew Hill to learn what the consequences can be when managers introduce too few checks and balances – and why generative AI might actually make bureaucracy worse.Want more? Free links:‘I work in a frustration factory': how to make workplaces run betterLetter: Frictions and frustrations of modern office workingPresented by Isabel Berwick, produced by Mischa Frankl-Duval, mixed by Simon Panayi. The executive producer is Manuela Saragosa. Cheryl Brumley is the FT's head of audio.Read a transcript of this episode on FT.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Robert Sutton: The Friction Project Robert Sutton is an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering in the Stanford Engineering School. He has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in 20 countries and served on numerous scholarly editorial boards. Bob's work has been featured in The New York Times, BusinessWeek, The Atlantic, Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, Vanity Fair, and The Washington Post. He is a frequent guest on various television and radio programs, and has written seven books and two edited volumes, including the bestsellers The No A-hole Rule, Good Boss, Bad Boss, and Scaling Up Excellence. He is the co-author with Huggy Rao of The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder*. We've all worked with someone who seemed just a bit oblivious. None of us want to be that kind of leader. In this conversation, Bob and I discuss key strategies for how to stop it and also prevent it. Key Points Privilege may spare you from hassles, but it doesn't come without cost. You risk being clueless about troubles in the organization. Power and prestige tend to influence leaders to focus more on themselves, less on others, and act like the rules don't apply to them. An antidote to oblivious leadership is less transmission and more reception. Measure two behaviors: (1) how much the leader talks vs. others in interactions and (2) the ratio of questions the leader asks vs. statements the leader makes. Either manage by walking out of the room or get in the details with ride alongs, direct help, and doing the work with folks. Be cautious about “managing by walking around” getting ritualistic. Hierarchy is inevitable and useful. The most effective leaders flex it and know when to be collaborative and when to be direct. Find people who will speak truth. Resources Mentioned The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder* by Robert Sutton and Huggy Rao Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner (episode 254) How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454) How to Help People Speak Truth to Power, with Megan Reitz (episode 597) How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

What is “destructive friction”? Bestselling authors Robert I. Sutton and Huggy Rao say that every organization is plagued by destructive friction; yet some forms of friction are incredibly useful, and leaders who attempt to improve workplace efficiency often make things even worse. Join us as Sutton and Rao teach people how to become “friction fixers.” Sutton and Rao say skilled friction fixers think and act like trustees of others' time. They provide friction forensics to help readers identify where to avert and repair bad organizational friction and where to maintain and inject good friction. Then their help pyramid shows how friction fixers do their work, from reframing friction troubles they can't fix right now, so they feel less threatening, to designing and repairing organizations. Sutton and Rao dig into the causes and solutions for five of the most common and damaging friction troubles: oblivious leaders, addition sickness, broken connections, jargon monoxide, and fast and frenzied people and teams. Sound familiar? Sutton and Rao are here to help. Don't miss their appearance at Commonwealth Club World Affairs, where they will give lessons for leading your own friction project; the power of civility, caring, and love for propelling designs and repairs; and embracing the mess that is an inevitable part of the process. This program contains EXPLICIT CONTENT. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can you remember a time when it felt like things at work were unjustifiably and annoyingly hard? Maybe you had to read a 1000-word email that could have been just one paragraph, or had to attend a two-hour meeting that could have been an email. Or maybe you had to manually input data although the process should have been automated ages ago. The reality is that every workplace is clogged with this type of destructive friction—the time-consuming, and soul-crushing practices that drive us crazy and undermine our ability to achieve meaningful goals. I imagine that at the global scale, millions of hours must get lost every day to red tape, workarounds that shouldn't have to exist in the first place, and to misguided leaders who pile on needless complexity. My guest today, Professor Bob Sutton has been so fascinated by the friction we experience in organisations that he researched it for a decade. His work resulted in a book co-authored with Huggy Rao, The Friction Project. Bob Sutton is an organizational psychologist and Professor of Management Science and Engineering at Stanford University.  He studies leadership, innovation, organizational change, and workplace dynamics.  His main focus over the past decade is on scaling and leading at scale—how to grow organizations, spread good things (and remove bad things) in teams and organizations. In this conversation, Bob Sutton and I talk about how to identify good and bad friction in an organization and how to make the right things easier and the wrong things harder. You can follow Bob Sutton on LinkedIn. You can find the transcript HERE. Join the CultureBrained® Community– a one-of-a-kind virtual community for Heads of Culture, founders, and leaders who want to up their culture game. Check out more of our free resources 

Bob Sutton, Professor at Stanford University, is a New York Times bestselling author of 9 books including his most recent, with co-author Huggy Rao, titled The Friction Project. Bob co-founded Stanford's Center for Work, Technology, and Organization, the Stanford Technology Ventures Program, and the “d school.” Bob has served as an advisor to McKinsey, Bain, and Microsoft, as a Fellow at IDEO, and as faculty at the World Economic Forum, and he is currently a Senior Scientist at Gallup. Bob has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in more than 20 countries and has been a guest on numerous radio and television shows, including ABC, Bloomberg, BBC, CNBC, Fox, NBC Today Show, PBS, NPR, Marketplace, and CNN. In this episode we discuss the following: The best leaders see themselves as trustees of other's time. As Bob told his employer at Stanford, and even a Google executive yesterday, “If the California DMV can be trustees of our time, you can do it for your employees too.” At the CA DMV, Bob showed up at 7:30 am, and 60 people were in front of him. Bob was thrilled when he saw a worker walking each row passing out forms, prepping people for their visit, and re-routing those in the wrong line. This DMV hero was a trustee of other peoples' time (and Bob was out in less than an hour). Our natural tendency is to add things to anything we do, whether it's a recipe, a vacation, or our jobs. But when we switch to the subtraction mindset, we can vastly improve things. Switch to the subtraction mindset: In the state of Michigan there was a form that 2.5 million residents filled out that had 1,000 questions. But thanks to Project Reform, the form is now 80% shorter and takes half the time. Lead with love. Starting with love, and then building the logistics behind it, can lead to vastly improved experiences compared to starting with logistics. For example, when Netflix made it easy to cancel, they got much better data from their customers.   Follow Bob: Twitter: https://twitter.com/work_matters LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/ Website: https://www.bobsutton.net/ Follow Me: Twitter: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/

Do you feel that you are stuck in mire and can't get things done? Is your organization wasting a lot of time with inefficiency? Are seemingly simple actions overly complicated? Tune in to understand the causes of friction and what to do about them.

Do you feel that you are stuck in mire and can't get things done? Is your organization wasting a lot of time with inefficiency? Are seemingly simple actions overly complicated? Tune in to understand the causes of friction and what to do about them.

Robert I. Sutton is an organizational psychologist and professor emeritus of Management Science and Engineering in the Stanford School of Engineering. Hayagreeva “Huggy” Rao is the Atholl McBean Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a fellow of the Center for Advanced Study in Behavioral Science, the Sociological Research Association, and the Academy of Management. In this conversation with Stanford lecturers Ravi Belani and Emily Ma, Sutton and Rao discuss their new book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder,” and offer advice and insights from their years of research and observation.

Organizations too often subject their employees and customers to unnecessary friction that creates inefficiency and causes frustration. But, in some situations, friction can be a positive force, spurring more innovation and better decision-making. So how do you reduce the bad kind and embrace the good?  Stanford professors Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao have studied this problem for seven years and offer strategies for leaders at every level to help them recognize when friction is needed or not and then add or subtract accordingly. They share ample examples of people and companies getting it right. Sutton and Rao are the authors of The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, as well as the HBR article, "Rid Your Organization of Obstacles that Infuriate Everyone."

When your name is Huggy, surely people can't help but like you. And after meeting today's “Huggy,” all I can say is, “What's not to like?” Huggy Rao, along with Robert Sutton, have written a new book, out today, called The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things […] The post 512: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder with Huggy Rao first appeared on Read to Lead Podcast.

When's the last time a customer service phone menu left you… genuinely angry? We build these systems to make things easier, layer systems on top of other systems, but who's doing the gardening and pruning – the upkeep? Our guest today calls this phenomenon friction. Robert Sutton has taught at Stanford since 1983, in that time covering everything from psychology to business management. Now he's out with his 8th book, The Friction Project. Bob and his co-writer Huggy Rao took on this idea of a maddeningly-frustrating phone menu to nail down where friction comes from – and how to treat it. But also, how can friction in our organizations actually be a force for good?

Kelly welcomes the great Bob Sutton back to the podcast. Professor Emeritus at Stanford, Bob has a new book out called “The Friction Project” which he co-wrote with Huggy Rao.  “Piles of studies show, to do creative work right, teams need to slow down, struggle, and develop a lot of bad ideas to find a […]

In The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao share insights on friction—the forces that make it harder, slower, more complicated, or even impossible to get things done in organizations.Sutton is an expert on organizational psychology at Stanford University and a best-selling author. His latest book is a culmination of a seven-year research effort on how effective organizations function without driving employees and customers crazy.Together with Martin Reeves, Chairman of BCG Henderson Institute, Sutton explores what friction is, where it comes from, and its effects - both positive and negative. They discuss the practical steps leaders and employees can take to remove and add friction in the right places. They also discuss broader implications, like whether the nature and consequences of friction will change in a world increasingly characterized by machine-machine and machine-human, rather than only human-human interactions.Key topics discussed:00:54 | What is organizational friction04:30 | The negative consequences of friction08:42 | What does good friction look like?14:14 | How to remove friction17:22 | What creates friction19:11 | Removing friction and creating problems22:04 | Is friction less problematic in a world of AI?25:26 | How can ideas about friction be applied in academia?This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Hayagreeva "Huggy" Rao, professor at Stanford University, is the author of several bestselling books, including his most recent, with co-author Bob Sutton, The Friction Project. His books have been covered in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, Inc. Magazine, Amazon, Forbes, and Washington Post among others. Huggy has also consulted with organizations such as British Petroleum, CEMEX, General Electric, IBM, Mass Mutual, American Cancer Society, the FBI and CIA. In this episode we discuss the following: Whether leaders are wasting others' time or underestimating coordination problems, they are creating bad friction that leads people to say things like, “After pouring myself into my BS work each day, I only have scraps of myself for my family.” Not all friction is bad. Creating friction for the Oakland Police Department led to less African Americans and Latinos being unjustly stopped. A leader has two primary jobs: remove obstacles that infuriate. And insert obstacles that educate. Follow Huggy X: https://twitter.com/huggyrao LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayagreevarao/ Website: https://huggyrao.com/ The Friction Project Book: https://amzn.to/48BVX3I Follow Me: X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/ Website: https://natemeikle.com

This week on episode 350 we interviewed Graham Sheldon, Chief Product Officer of UiPath and Huggy Rao, Author of The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder. Graham discussed how he sees AI and automation coming together and where he sees the convergence of RPA with BPM, workflow, process mining, integration tools, and API management. He also touched on where he sees the future of enterprise software. Huggy shared how to identify good and bad friction in an organization and discussed how “good friction” can help jumpstart human connection and innovation in an organization. He also explained how to think like a “friction fixer” regardless of your position and when and how to apply “good friction” to slow things down for better decision making. DisrupTV is a weekly podcast with hosts R “Ray” Wang and Vala Afshar. The show airs live at 11:00 a.m. PT/ 2:00 p.m. ET every Friday. Brought to you by Constellation Executive Network: constellationr.com/CEN.

On this week's Tech Nation, Moira speaks withStanford Professors, Bob Sutton and Huggy Rao, talk about their book, “The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.” Then, is your personal technology doing more than you bargained for? Duke University Professor Nita Farahany talks about “The Battle for Your Brain … Defending the Right to Think Freely in the Age of Neurotechnology.”

In this conversation we unpack workplace Friction with Hayagreeva 'Huggy' Rao. Friction can be both good and bad in a workplace, knowing how to use it and how to eliminate it when it's doing harm is critical.The Friction Project is the latest book by Huggy Rao and Bob Sutton and is The definitive guide to eliminating the forces that make it harder, more complicated, or downright impossible to get things done in organizations.THE FRICTION PROJECT: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder is written by bestselling authors and Stanford professors Robert I. Sutton and Hayagreeva “Huggy” Rao. It presents a decade's worth of research on what ought to be easy and what ought to be hard in organizations, and how to change things for the better. Based on their research, case studies, and hundreds of engagements with top companies, the authors reveal just how widespread this affliction is, and provide a roadmap for readers to take up the mantle and blaze a path out of the muck. Our episode today with Huggy Rao unpacks this book and the incredible research conducted to help you discern between good and bad friction, and what to do about it.Huggy Rao is the Atholl McBean professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a fellow of the Center for Advanced Study in Behavioral Science, the Sociological Research Association, and the Academy of Management. He has written for Harvard Business Review, Business Week, and the Wall Street Journal. He is the author of Market Rebels and coauthor of the bestselling Scaling Up Excellence.Praise for The Friction Project:“Sutton and Rao have given us a thousand gems, each an invaluable insight on its own, reinventing management as the art of ensuring that things get done as they should without unnecessary struggle. Marshalling the crucial insights from classic works, as well as from the very latest studies, they make a convincing case for friction as a vital focus and offer countless practical suggestions that you can apply in your work. I guarantee that their profoundly humane arguments will win your hearts, change your behavior, and transform your companies.”—Amy C. Edmondson, Professor, Harvard Business School, Author, Right kind of wrong: The science of failing well (Atria, 2023)“I have found every place I've been to be filled with people who REALLY CARE about doing the right thing for the company. Sutton and Rao show how leaders who pay attention to friction - which kinds arehelpful and which are not—can equip these people with the right tools, build their trust, and make incredible progress as a result.”— Ed Catmull, co-founder of Pixar, former President of Pixar and Disney Animation Studios, and author of Creativity INC: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Caleb and Adriele are joined by special guest, Dr. Robert Sutton, an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering at Stanford. They talk about bureaucracy, the frustrations of middle managers, his new book with Stanford colleague Huggy Rao, *The Friction Project,* which explores how “smart leaders make the right things easier and the wrong things harder.” [21:54] Before that, they sort through big news stories from the week including a report that 2023 was the hottest year on record, the changing language around ESG, and a slew of major layoffs. They also check in on the state of politics prior to the Iowa Caucuses. Then, Caleb talks about some of the predictions from the Executives Club of Chicago's Annual Economic Forum. All that, plus Ecuador's new Violet Economy law and Google is using AI to reduce traffic in Seattle. [59:45] Discussed today: Bob Sutton: Work Matters Ecuador's Violet Economy Law

“We don't want our time to be spread thin like peanut butter on a slice of toast. You will have greater impact when you concentrate your efforts on work that is closely tied to winning—however you define it.” Are you working in a frustration factory? If so, it's important to recognize that not all friction is created equal. Some is good, to slow down decision-making in crucial moments, and some is bad, getting in the way of progress. You'll need to tap into your inner “grease” and “gunk” sides to address both. In the introduction to their book, The Friction Project, coauthors Huggy Rao and Bob Sutton share a quote from Ed Catmull, former president of Pixar. He believes that if Pixar followed overreaching executives' advice to wring maximum efficiency and scale out of the organization, it would “kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.” "The goal isn't efficiency, it is to make something good or even great,” Catmull says. “We iterate seven to nine times, with friction in the process.” More About Huggy: Huggy Rao is the Atholl McBean professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a fellow of the Center for Advanced Study in Behavioral Science, the Sociological Research Association, and the Academy of Management. He has written for Harvard Business Review, Business Week, and the Wall Street Journal. He is the author of Market Rebels and coauthor of the bestselling book Scaling Up Excellence. Today we're talking about his new book, also coauthored with Bob Sutton, The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.

Have you or someone you know fallen victim to the detrimental effects of Jargon Monoxide? If so, there might be compensation waiting for you. Joining Kurt and Tim in this episode, Huggy Rao delves into the critical aspects of organizational friction and the looming specter of burnout within workspaces. Huggy underscores the need for clear and transparent communication to escape the wearisome trap of workspeak, identified here as "jargon monoxide." Tune in for a succinct and transparent conversation as Huggy dissects the challenges organizations encounter with an inherent bias towards addition, prioritizing the incorporation of new elements over the removal of unnecessary ones. He sheds light on the paradoxical scenario where leaders receive accolades for their additive contributions, leaving the significance of subtraction undervalued and misunderstood. In the episode's conclusion, Kurt and Tim steer the discussion towards reframing friction as an avenue for improvement rather than a hindrance. They explore effective strategies for mitigating workplace friction and beyond, providing valuable insights for those grappling with end-of-the-year work fatigue. Don't miss out on this episode if you're seeking a fresh perspective on navigating workplace challenges.   © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Topics  (6:12) Intro and Speed Round (12:21) Good Friction vs Bad Friction (17:38) Health Pyramids and Reframing the Workplace (25:07) Rational vs Emotional (30:25) Corporate time wasters (37:04) Addition bias and Obliviousness (45:10) Jargon Monoxide (54:55) Grooving Session: Strategies for Burnout and Friction  © 2023 Behavioral Grooves Links  The Friction Project Bandolini's Law  Huggy Rao Musical Links Camarón De La Isla Como El Agua (Tangos) Yo Yo Ma - Yo-Yo Ma - Bach: Cello Suite No. 1 in G Major, Prélude (Official Video)

Welcome to Grit & Growth's masterclass on friction — the good, the bad, and the ugly. Robert Sutton, Stanford professor in the School of Engineering and best-selling author, has stories and strategies to help you identify the causes of friction, eliminate it, and even learn how to use friction intentionally to create more space for success. Friction, according to Bob Sutton, “ is simply putting obstacles in front of people that slow them down, that make their jobs more difficult and maybe a little bit more frustrating.” Sutton has written multiple New York Times bestsellers, including The No Asshole Rule, and Scaling Up Excellence with coauthor and Stanford colleague Huggy Rao. His upcoming book with Rao is all about the friction that typically arises after companies scale, and it is appropriately titled The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.Sutton's research shows that friction often starts at the top. Luckily, he has lots of advice for how to become more aware of the power and influence leaders wield and tips for eliminating unwanted friction in your organization.Seven Masterclass TakeawaysAdopt a trustee mindset. According to Sutton, “Leaders should be trustees of other people's time.” This means not just trying to find ways of saving people's time, but also being aware of how you're imposing on their time. Don't be oblivious. “Leaders need to be aware of the power and influence they have,” says Sutton, because an offhand comment can send employees on a wild goose chase that costs time, energy, and money. “That's what happens when people in positions of power…are unaware of their cone of friction.” Leaders also need to acknowledge their blind spots. Many assume that because of their success, they know everything that matters about their organization; what Sutton calls the “fallacy of centrality.” Either way, what you don't know can certainly hurt you.Avoid power poisoning. “When people feel powerful or more powerful than others they tend to focus on their own needs over others and then they act like the rules don't apply to them,” Sutton says. Friction is almost always the result.Embrace inconvenience. Leaders often get the VIP treatment. They don't have to stand in line or wait on hold. But Sutton says that this “absence of inconvenience…is protecting you from the experience that your customers are facing.” If you don't feel the friction yourself, how can you address it?Play the subtraction game.Sutton suggests approaching problems with a subtraction mindset as an antidote to what he calls addition sickness. He says, “First, make a list of stuff that's getting in the way and driving you crazy. Okay, so now what are you going to do to get rid of it?”Fight friction as a team.“Friction is often an orphan problem that we point at other people, and we tell them it's their job to fix it,” Sutton says. Given the high-friction nature of friction fixing, he suggests a team effort.Remember that not all friction is bad.Sutton acknowledges that some things should be hard, like cheating, stealing, and making stupid decisions quickly. He says “Sometimes, being fast — all that does is get you killed off more quickly. The goal of getting rid of mindless, unwanted friction is to clear the way for the things in life that are hard and should be hard.”Listen to Bob Sutton's anecdotes and advice on how to recognize and remove friction in the workplace. The Friction Project will be released on January 30, and you can pre-order copies of the book now. (https://www.amazon.com/Friction-Project-Leaders-Things-Easier/dp/1250284414)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bob Sutton is an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering at the Stanford Engineering School. He has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in 20 countries, and served on numerous scholarly editorial boards focused around his work on leadership, innovation, organizational change, and workplace dynamics. His most recent book, THE FRICTION PROJECT: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, co-written with Huggy Rao is focused on scaling and leading at scale. Based on 10 years of research it outlines how to grow organizations, it suggests something really compelling: you know we all almost by default think we should be strive to build a “frictionless organization” to drive agility and efficiency. Bob points out that friction is not bad on its own. In fact, you WANT to create friction to slow down “bad” things while reducing friction to promote good things. This can enhance performance, innovation, and help make sure you fall into the trap of letting bad things grow as the company scales. _________________________________________________________________________________________In this episode, he shares:How as organizations grow, they become increasingly complex over time and how to mitigate this How to identify where to "put in gas" vs. "pump the brakes" to slow down when it comes to new and ongoing initiatives Why running at full speed is not always the answer (and the surprising byproduct of doing so) What makes collaboration between individual team members and make teams as a whole efficient What is changing in the workforce, and what has changed in terms of what makes a good leader in light of that _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:20—Introducing Bob + The topic of today's episode3:50—If you really know me, you know that...5:05—What is your definition of strategy?7:07—Can you talk to us about the premise of your book, The Friction Project, and its background?10:50—Could you talk to us about the moments in which friction can be a good thing, or when to apply "gas vs. brakes16:05—How do you recognize where to apply this idea of velocity vs. slowing down?18:57—How is it that some teams seem to come together and work seamlessly, while others seem to struggle?22:57—What is changing in business in terms of leadership, the way people work, etc.?26:05—Can you talk to us about the importance of reducing frictions, especially in regards to technology?26:50—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Author Website: bobsutton.netEmail: https://www.bobsutton.net/contact/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/Twitter: https://twitter.com/work_matters

Bob Sutton is an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering at the Stanford Engineering School. He has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in 20 countries, and served on numerous scholarly editorial boards focused around his work on leadership, innovation, organizational change, and workplace dynamics. His most recent book, THE FRICTION PROJECT: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder, co-written with Huggy Rao is focused on scaling and leading at scale. Based on 10 years of research it outlines how to grow organizations, it suggests something really compelling: you know we all almost by default think we should be strive to build a “frictionless organization” to drive agility and efficiency. Bob points out that friction is not bad on its own. In fact, you WANT to create friction to slow down “bad” things while reducing friction to promote good things. This can enhance performance, innovation, and help make sure you fall into the trap of letting bad things grow as the company scales. _________________________________________________________________________________________In this episode, he shares:How as organizations grow, they become increasingly complex over time and how to mitigate this How to identify where to "put in gas" vs. "pump the brakes" to slow down when it comes to new and ongoing initiatives Why running at full speed is not always the answer (and the surprising byproduct of doing so) What makes collaboration between individual team members and make teams as a whole efficient What is changing in the workforce, and what has changed in terms of what makes a good leader in light of that _________________________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:20—Introducing Bob + The topic of today's episode3:50—If you really know me, you know that...5:05—What is your definition of strategy?7:07—Can you talk to us about the premise of your book, The Friction Project, and its background?10:50—Could you talk to us about the moments in which friction can be a good thing, or when to apply "gas vs. brakes16:05—How do you recognize where to apply this idea of velocity vs. slowing down?18:57—How is it that some teams seem to come together and work seamlessly, while others seem to struggle?22:57—What is changing in business in terms of leadership, the way people work, etc.?26:05—Can you talk to us about the importance of reducing frictions, especially in regards to technology?26:50—How can people follow you and connect with you to continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Author Website: bobsutton.netEmail: https://www.bobsutton.net/contact/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/Twitter: https://twitter.com/work_matters

In this Inspiration Loves Company episode, we explore with Stanford Graduate School of Business professor and author, Hayagreeva "Huggy" Rao, and work flexibility strategist, futurist and author, Cali Williams Yost, how to design today's jobs and workplaces to give employees more freedom while also facilitating collaboration, training and relationship building. We uncover how to inculcate a strong culture and loyalty while giving employees more autonomy. We also delve into how to enhance your presence online when you're not in-person and what types of parameters and articulated expectations can create just the right balance to give both managers and employees the assurances and flexibility that they need. Thank you to the global law firm of DLA Piper for sponsoring this episode of Inspiration Loves Company. 

Authors Henrich R. Greve, Huggy Rao, Paul Vicinanza, and Echo Zhou discuss their article, "Online Conspiracy Groups: Micro-Bloggers, Bots, and Coronavirus Conspiracy Talk on Twitter," published in the December 2022 issue of American Sociological Review.

Today we are looking through the lenses of sociology and psychology to answer two questions: 1. How can organizational culture act as a shock absorber & help companies rebound from adversities? 2. What makes individuals resilient? Together with Huggy Rao, Professor of Organizational Behavior and Human Resources at Stanford Graduate School of Business, we will: ✅ Discuss how "cultural protections" enable people and organizations respond to shocks ✅ Provide examples on how to activate the "best self" in each individual and how this will lead to increased resilience ✅ Emphasize the need to move from "a room called fear" to a "room called hope" for both individuals and organizations ✅ Moving away from Planning towards building the CARE-SHARE-DARE muscle in Organizations

Elizabeth MacBride is an award-winning journalist and an entrepreneur with deep expertise in finance, technology and international business. She has talked her way into Gaza for a story, reported on business in refugee camps and written stories about entrepreneurs everywhere from Northern Idaho to Helena, Arkansas, to Cambodia. She is the co-author of The New Builders and founder of Times of Entrepreneurship, a weekly web publication covering entrepreneurs beyond Silicon Valley, launched in Feb. 2020, with support from the Kauffman Foundation and the Walton Family Foundation. Elizabeth has written or edited for Quartz, Forbes Magazine, Atlantic.com, Stanford GSB, CNBC, HBR.com, BBC Capital, Advertising Age, Newsweek and many others. Her stories have been viewed by millions of people worldwide and translated into languages including Arabic, Turkish and Armenian. Her recent work includes a viral story: “Why Venture Capital Doesn’t Build What We Really Need,” for MIT Tech Review; an award-winning feature on the lack of diversity among investment advisors for Investment News, the most efficient form of aid for Syrian refugees for Quartz, and a feature for CNBC on one of the few successful economic development projects in Bethlehem, led by Greek businessman, Samer Khoury.Elizabeth's work for corporate and startup clients includes thought leadership with Andy Rachleff, co-founder of Benchmark Capital and Wealthfront, as well as a number of internationally known Stanford professors in management and finance, including Huggy Rao and Benham Tabrizi. She edited two books on investing for Charley Ellis, founder of Greenwich Associates, and the author of the classic Winning the Loser's Game.

Robert (Bob) Sutton is a Professor of Management Science and Engineering at Stanford University. He is the co-founder of the Stanford Technology Ventures Program (STVP) and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design (the D School).  Bob is currently working with Huggy Rao on The Friction Project, where they focus on why companies make the right things too complicated and the wrong things too easy and what to do about it. He's published over 200 articles in academic and popular outlets, and seven of Bob's books have gotten accolades, including being part of the Top 100 Business Books list, New York Times Bestseller, The Wall Street Journal bestseller, and more. His books include Hard Facts, Dangerous Half-Truths, And Total Nonsense; The Knowing-Doing Gap; Weird Ideas That Work, The No Asshole Rule, and Good, Bad Boss. He also wrote The Asshole Survival Guide: How to Deal With People Who Treat You Like Dirt and Scaling-Up Excellence. In this episode… Many companies are doing the opposite of what they need to do in order to scale their business. They make bad things easy and faster to do, while good things pose more challenges and are accomplished at a slower pace. Bob Sutton says that many companies make this mistake in a variety of ways, from creating friction-laden processes to spending a ton of money on billable hours while doing mundane and unproductive tasks. So what’s the alternative approach that is making unicorns like Facebook change their perspective? How are top CEOs like Patrick Collison of Stripe accomplishing massive things that would typically take months so quickly? Listen to this episode of the Inspired Insider podcast with Dr. Jeremy Weisz as he talks to Stanford professor, best selling author, and in-demand speaker, Bob Sutton, about some of the exciting things he discovered through The Friction Project. They’ll be discussing how top brands like Uber, Google, and Facebook get things done so quickly, how companies can uncomplicate the process for easy tasks, how to avoid making bad things an effortless endeavour, and more. Stay tuned.

Today it’s great to have Robert Sutton on the podcast. Sutton is Professor of Management Science and Engineering and Professor of Organizational Behavior by courtesy at Stanford. He co-founded the Stanford Technology Ventures Program (STVP) and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design which everyone calls the d.school. Sutton received his PhD in Organizational Psychology from the University of Michigan and has served on the Stanford faculty since 1983. He is a senior scientist at Gallup and academic director of two executive education programs — Customer-Focused Innovation and the Stanford Innovation and Entrepreneurship Certificate. He has served as professor at the Hoss Business School, a fellow at the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences, a fellow at IDEO, an advisor to McKinsey and Company, and faculty at the World Economic Forum at Davos. Sutton’s books include The No Asshole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn’t and Good Boss, Bad Boss: How to Be the Best…. and Survive the Worst, which are both New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers. His latest book, Scaling-Up Excellence: Getting to More without Settling for Less (with Huggy Rao), was published in 2014.

This episode brings you insights from Filene Fellow Huggy Rao, professor of organizational behavior and human resources at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business. Huggy will make you see the link between what you do and the way you do it, and your performance outcomes. Huggy isn’t your typical professor, you will be well entertained by his colorful language and metaphors throughout. Get inspired by his recommendation to strengthen your help muscle more than your sell muscle. As he said, when you lead with the help muscle by setting up the incentives, culture, and organizational design right, you’ll make your employees feel physically and psychologically safe and your members feel like you acknowledge and care about their best interests. Do as Huggy suggests, and use this as an opportunity and not a threat. Filene is having a virtual event on June 16-17 to explore and unpack Huggy's research on organizational effectiveness and excellence. If you’re listening to this before then, please be sure you’re registered to attend this free event at filene.org/artandscience and if you're listening after, you can recap what we discussed at the event on Filene’s website so check out filene.org to see what we have for you to learn under our Operations tab. Oh and one last thing -- Huggy wanted to share his recipe recommendations with our listeners: "Here is a fun recipe for a chickpea dish that folks can riff off. (https://kahakaikitchen.blogspot.com/2019/12/ottolenghi-instagram-inspired-butter.html). As for cocktails, my current favorite (given the meyer lemon trees in our backyard) is a rosemary grapefruit martini."

Today's interview is with Huggy Rao, Atholl McBean Professor of Organizational Behavior and Human Resources at Stanford Graduate School of Business and co-author of a new book, with Robert Sutton, called: Scaling Up Excellence: Getting to More Without Settling for Less. Huggy joins me today to talk about the book, the key scaling challenges that confront every organization and how you spread pockets of excellence across an organisation. This interview follows on from my recent interview: Transforming the internal customer service experience of your IT dept – Interview with Jason Andrew of BMC Software – and is number ninety-eight in the series of interviews with authors and business leaders that are doing great things, helping businesses innovate, become more social and deliver better service.

Today's interview is with Gary Ambrosino, President and COO of Timetrade. Gary joins me today to talk about the the work that they are doing helping a number of top banks in the USA transform their in-branch customer experience, how every retailer can now deliver a ‘Genius Bar' experience and what retailers can do to reduce the affects of 'showrooming'. This interview follows on from my recent interview: Scaling up excellence is not a footprint problem but a mindset problem – Interview with Huggy Rao – and is number ninety-nine in the series of interviews with authors and business leaders that are doing great things, helping businesses innovate, become more social and deliver better service.

Two recent client exchanges are worth sharing. The first was a visit to Tesla’s Gigafactory site in Nevada, the second a series of conversations with a director at a major health care consortium. Both on the drive to the Gigafactory site with a client and as a passenger on numerous Uber trips in Reno, discussion about the local area centered on the tectonic transformation occurring in the Reno/Sparks area. Viewing the corporate infrastructure footprint of not just Tesla, but other companies such as Amazon, Apple and Switch makes one think of the vision leading to this transformation. On the other hand, my discussion with the health care director focused almost exclusively on the process of implementing a single Project Portfolio Management software tool. Interestingly, the director mentioned concerns about internal survey scores and how to compete for talent in the Silicon Valley area. Not a word about improved lives through healthcare or any mention of people. Robert Sutton and Huggy Rao’s book Scaling Up Excellence came to mind, especially chapter three which focuses on finding the “hot cause,” or overarching purpose that must be driven through an organization. Not just words on a poster in the lobby, but relentlessly demonstrated as the core mission and even better aligned with one’s Personal Leadership Philosophy. Think about that. How well and how frequently do you communicate the big picture rather than the immediate project at hand to your team? Leaders share vision and purpose.

In this episode, we’ll define and explore scaling up excellence, the most common mistakes organizations make in scaling and get an insider take on the Strategic Innovation Institute. Rao is Atholl McBean professor of organizational behavior and human resources, director of the managing talent for Strategic Advantage Executive Program and the co-director of the Customer-Focused Innovation Executive Program.

Huggy Rao is Professor of Organizational Behavior and Human Resources at Stanford Graduate School of Business. His teaching specialties include leading organizational change, building customer focused cultures, and organization design. Huggy has worked as a consultant for many large US companies and he also worked with nonprofit organizations such as the American Cancer Society. Together...

Many entrepreneurs dream of starting a business in their garage, scaling it, then selling it to Google for a billion dollars.  Such things rarely happen.But scaling happens every day, in our career, our business or our workplace. We are constantly trying to improve ourselves, share our ideas, and put in systems and infrastructure that will grow our organizations without destroying that which made them great. Stanford professors Robert Sutton and Huggy Rao describe in their exceptionally well-researched and readable new book, Scaling Up Excellence: Getting to More Without Settling for Less that knowing how to scale is a critical skill for the 21st century workplace. And they have 7 years worth of research, analysis and case studies, consolidated into this great book. In my lively conversation with Bob Sutton, we discuss: Scaling excellence in your own career Scaling up competence as startups get past bootstrapping Looking for hot causes and cool solutions Why big teams suck Scaling excellence in large companies: Why change should happen in pockets of excellence, not be spread like peanut butter across an organization Bob has been my "adopted professor" and High Council of Jedi Knight member for the last 8 years. I respect his work so much, and hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did! Read more about the book and order it here: http://scalingupexcellenceGive Bob a shout out on Twitter @work_matters

Stanford Professor Bob Sutton shares principles and colorful examples from his most recent book, Scaling Up Excellence, co-authored by Huggy Rao. Touching on concepts around emotion, complexity, and connecting people, Sutton explains why scaling is about spreading and sustaining a mindset, not just a footprint.

Stanford Professor Bob Sutton shares principles and colorful examples from his most recent book, Scaling Up Excellence, co-authored by Huggy Rao. Touching on concepts around emotion, complexity, and connecting people, Sutton explains why scaling is about spreading and sustaining a mindset, not just a footprint.

Stanford Professor Bob Sutton shares principles and colorful examples from his most recent book, Scaling Up Excellence, co-authored by Huggy Rao. Touching on concepts around emotion, complexity, and connecting people, Sutton explains why scaling is about spreading and sustaining a mindset, not just a footprint.

Stanford Business School professors and authors of Scaling Up Excellence: Getting to More Without Settling for Less

Bob Sutton, Stanford University professor, talks about his book, "Scaling Up Excellence: Getting to More Without Settling for Less" (coauthored by Huggy Rao).