Podcasts about Glass Castle

In this episode, award-winning and best selling author Kennerly Clay discusses her memoir, 'Letters from East of Nowhere; Daddy's Words to Live, Drink & Die By' offering valuable insights into forgiveness, dealing with family complexities, and the journey of personal growth and healing. If you're a fan of ‘The Glass Castle' and ‘Lit' then you'll love hearing about Kennerly's life. She shares her personal experiences with recovery, the impact of past traumas, and the challenge of navigating toxic relationships. Kennerly highlights the significance of authentic communication and resilience in the face of adversity while recounting the compelling influence of her father and the power of letter writing. Kennerly offers her wisdom on the challenges of healing from toxic abuse. This conversation offers timely advice for anyone facing unresolved familial and emotional issues. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:16 Kennerly's Journey to Sobriety02:05 Writing as a Healing Process03:28 Father-Daughter Relationship Dynamics06:19 The Power of Forgiveness11:22 Navigating Complex Family Dynamics20:01 Embracing Sobriety at a Young Age23:03 Exploring Resilience and Overcoming Disappointments25:44 Introducing the Book: Letters from East of Nowhere26:01 The Story Behind the Book's Title and Content29:11 Impact of a Troubled Parent on Family Dynamics33:17 Understanding Forgiveness and Personal Growth36:41 Recognizing and Dealing with Triggers39:16 Final Thoughts and Where to Find More InformationTo learn more about Kennerly Clay:www.LettersFromEastOfNowhere.comTo contact host Deborah Ashway:www.InnerSourceTherapy.com

The Pressure Cooker & Reading Books - The Glass CastleSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Cousins Síle and Teamhair discuss chapters 28 - 41, of Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Maas, book 2 in the series, leaving first time readers with one of the worst possible cliffhangers. (Sorry, Sheila - Love, Tara.) They're talking ridderaks, Cain's gardening and the Glass Castle crime procedural. Safe if you've read this far in the series and no cross Sarah J. Maas universe spoilers! New deadline to have your emails and voice memos included the book wrap is March 22, 2025! Send emails and voice memos to sandtfaemail@gmail.com!

In this episode, host Merlin Fulcher is joined by Jon Wright, an historian and 20 Century lead at Purcell to discuss: Plans to revamp London's Brutalist Barbican Centre // A redevelopment bid for Denys Lasdun's ‘glass castle' // Tributes for legendary Archigram member Dennis Crompton // And a campaign to save Soho's Prince Charles cinema.To help support excellent and accessible, independent journalism about the buildings and the urban environment, please become an Open City friend by clicking here.The Brief is recorded and produced at the Open City offices located in Bureau. Bureau is a co-working space for creatives offering a new approach to membership workspace. Bureau prioritises not just room to think and do, but also shared resources and space to collaborate. To book a free day pass follow this link.The Brief is produced in association with the Architects' Journal, and the C20 Society.The Brief is also supported by Bloomberg Connects, the free arts and culture app. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Send us a textEpisode 525"American Primeval"Dominic BogartThey very kind Dominic Bogart joins me to talk about his career and  "American Primeval".   Dominic is low key excellent in his role as "Frank Cook" We break down his character, working with Dane DeHaan, Peter Berg and some deleted scenes that did not make it into the final cut.Dominic Bogart is an actor, musician, and horseman who grew up riding racehorses in rural Ohio. He briefly played football for the Bearcats at the University of Cincinnati where he earned a BFA in Dramatic Performance from the College-Conservatory of Music. Before headlining the Sundance Film Festival music drama, I AM NOT A HIPSTER, and the SXSW Film Festival sci-fi drama, EXTRACTED, Bogart performed on stages in front of over a million live audience members in the US and Europe. Notable theatre credits include leading roles in JERSEY BOYS and RENT, as well as live performances alongside Alicia Keys, Bon Jovi, Christina Aguilera, Mike Reid, and Dave Chapelle. He has recurred on several TV shows and recently acted in Fox Searchlight's THE BIRTH OF A NATION, Lionsgate's THE GLASS CASTLE, and Warner Bros' JUST MERCY.Welcome, Dominic Bogart.#americanprimeval #americanwest #netflixseries #western #westernmovies #westernmovies #shorts Reach out to Darek Thomas and Monday Morning Critic!Instagram:   / mondaymorningcritic  Facebook:   / mondaymorningcritic  TikTok:   / mondaymorningcritic  Mondaymorningcritic@gmail.com

This week, we are comparing Captain Fantastic (2016) and The Glass Castle (2017), two films about families raised in unconventional ways.-----The Movies:Captain Fantastic (2016)Directed by Matt RossWritten by Matt RossiMDb Rating: 7.8The Glass Castle (2017)Directed by Destin Daniel CrettonWritten by Destin Daniel Cretton & Andrew LanhamBased on the memoir by Jeannette WallsiMDB Rating: 7.1-----Find us on:Discord - https://discord.gg/dxgmcfj552Tumblr - @ItTakesTwoPodInstagram - @ItTakesTwo_podFacebook - @ItTakesTwoPodYoutube - @ittakestwonzBluesky - @ittakestwoOur website - ItTakesTwo.co.nz-----Content Warning:Discussions of death, suicide, illness, poverty, mental illness, physical abuse, child abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, trauma, injury.

Young Sheldon star Iain Armitage joins The Art of Kindness with Robert Peterpaul for our season four premiere! Welcome back and happy World Kindness Week, friends! The actor discusses the curiosity of kindness onset and in life, the legacy of Young Sheldon, working with legends like Meryl Streep and Nicole Kidman, and much more in this delightful episode. IAIN ARMITAGE is most recognized for his role as the title character in the hit CBS comedy YOUNG SHELDON, the prequel to THE BIG BANG THEORY which wrapped its 7th and final season in May 2024. He was nominated for a Critic's Choice Award for Lead in a Comedy Series and in 2018 he received a Teen Choice Award nomination for his portrayal in the Breakout TV Star category. Iain first burst onto the scene appearing as Shailene Woodley's son, Ziggy Chapman, in the HBO series and cultural phenomenon, BIG LITTLE LIES. He reprised his role in the second season and was nominated at the SAG awards with the cast for Best Ensemble in 2019.   On film, he has appeared with Jane Fonda and Robert Redford in OUR SOULS AT NIGHT for Netflix, in THE GLASS CASTLE for Lionsgate with Woody Harrelson and opposite JK Simmons and Mandy Moore in independent film IM NOT HERE. Iain can also be heard as the voice of Young Shaggy in Scooby Doo animated feature origin story, SCOOB!, and can be heard as the voice of lead pup Chase in Paramount's animated PAW PATROL feature. A special thank you to the nonprofit Matt's Kindness Ripples On for awarding us their Kindness Grant + Annie Potts for participating in our kindness surprise! Learn more about your KQ at kindness.org. Follow Iain: @iain Follow us: @artofkindnesspod / @robpeterpaul youtube.com/@artofkindnesspodcast Support the show! (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/theaok) Got kindness tips or stories? Please email us: artofkindnesspodcast@gmail.com Music: "Awake" by Ricky Alvarez & "Sunshine" by Lemon Music Studio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is braver than sharing your own story with the world? Nothing. This episode of the Velshi Banned Book Club will examine two true stories: “Hunger” by Roxane Gay and “The Glass Castle” by Jeannette Walls. While these two memoirs are windows into two vastly different worlds, they are both masterclasses in the age-old tradition of storytelling as a warning, as a lesson, and as a means to understand oneself. “Hunger” is a breathtaking examination of the societal demands of appearance and a salient reminder of how radical self-acceptance is. “The Glass Castle” is a searing examination of poverty, the intricacies of family, and the all-encompassing nature of mental health struggles. Together, they're cultural touchstones and contemporary classics that need to be read.

Join us as we continue our analysis of our ninth Sarah J. Maas book and the start of a new series… Throne of Glass! If you like this episode, please rate, review, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find us on Instagram at @faeriesandfangirls.

Send Us Your Love (or Hate :))Hi Peekers! This week, we are continuing the series by Sarah J. Mass, the Throne of Glass series! This is part 2 of the finale of Heir of Fire and boy, oh boy, do we have some tea for you. Manon faces off in the battle for wing leader with the other witches and has her grandmother to face at the end of the battle. Chaol, Aedion and Dorian have their own battle to face in the Glass Castle with the king as tensions continue to rise. Sorry for the long hiatus we took since the last part, but you won't want to miss this. Join us while we cover all the tea, drama and character info on this massive series and follow along as we unpack our favorite (and least favorite) parts of these books. We can't wait to hear what you think!Support the Show.*Please Submit your Bookish Battles stories to our email, PlotPeekGirlies@gmail.com for a chance to be read on the Pod.*All info from this book comes directly from The Throne of Glass Series by Sarah J. Mass and are our own opinions of what we think about it. This does not necessarily reflect Sarah J. Mass's own thoughts, only our own interpretations. *Music by @geoffharveymusic from Pixabay was used for intro and outro. Find him on Youtube to support his amazing music. *To help us keep making more content, please consider subscribing to our page for a shoutout on the next episode! https://www.buzzsprout.com/2313318/supporters/new

Send us a Text Message.This week on the ole pod john: The resurgence of motels; The Glass Castle; and life advice from former Pepsi CEO Indra Nooyi & Ralph Waldo Emerson.Support the Show.Thanks for listening! Listen, rate, subscribe and other marketing type slogans! Here's my Insta: @dannypalmernyc @thedannypalmershow@blackcatcomedy (NYC stand-up show every Friday at 9 pm. 172 Rivington St.) And subscribe to my Patreon? Maybe? If you know how to? I don't know how it works. Let's just leave this thing be: https://www.patreon.com/thedannypalmershow

Your relationship with money may be one of the hardest relationships you'll ever have in your life. But not anymore! With Renee's guidance, in this episode you'll be challenged to change the beliefs you have about money so you can create a life of abundance. Everyone is worthy of having of enough money but, it's your mindset around it that will determine the relationship you have with it. Renee doesn't waste any time so listen to this episode in full where she covers:   Why cultivating a positive mindset around money means viewing it as energy and a tool that flows freely to you Why reflecting on the relationship you have with money will allow you to strive for a more abundant mindset around it How to challenge yourself to view your purchases as the value it will bring you instead of merely the price tag     

Send Us Your Love (or Hate :))Hi Peekers! This week, we are continuing the series by Sarah J. Mass, the Throne of Glass series! We will be continuing the fourth book in this series, Heir of Fire. This week, we've got (more) fae dominance, new monsters in the forest, a murder mystery, witch drama, underdog battles, and new romances in the Glass Castle! Join us while we cover all the tea, drama and character info on this massive series and follow along as we unpack our favorite (and least favorite) parts of these books. We can't wait to hear what you think!Support the Show.*Please Submit your Bookish Battles stories to our email, PlotPeekGirlies@gmail.com for a chance to be read on the Pod.*All info from this book comes directly from The Throne of Glass Series by Sarah J. Mass and are our own opinions of what we think about it. This does not necessarily reflect Sarah J. Mass's own thoughts, only our own interpretations. *Music by @geoffharveymusic from Pixabay was used for intro and outro. Find him on Youtube to support his amazing music. *To help us keep making more content, please consider subscribing to our page for a shoutout on the next episode! https://www.buzzsprout.com/2313318/supporters/new

Today's story is about a little girl called Elodie who finds out an amazing secret... Once upon a time, in a faraway land, there lived a little girl and her name was Elodie. She lived in a simple village with her father, mother, and baby brother. Elodie's favourite thing to do was read books, pick flowers in the butterfly meadow, and bake yummy treats with her best friend, Annie.  One day, Elodie and Annie were in the kitchen when her father burst through the wooden door. “Elodie!” he puffed, out of breath. “Where's your mother?” Elodie stared at her father in surprise. He was holding a piece of parchment paper tightly in his hand.  “She's gone to the market,” Elodie told her father.  Father spun around and rushed back out the door. “What was that all about?” asked Annie.  "I have no idea,” Elodie answered her friend. “I guess I'll find out later.” That evening, the family was eating dinner when Father stood up.   “I have something to share,” he said, smiling at Elodie and at Mother, who was feeding the baby in the rocking chair.  Elodie sat up straighter and listened carefully. She didn't want to miss what Father said! Father held up the parchment paper he'd come home with earlier.  “This piece of paper says something very special,” began Father. “But I need to explain something first. Elodie, you are a princess.”  Elodie was stunned. She replayed the words in her mind.  “A princess? Me? How is that possible?” she asked Father...... Do you want to know what happens next? You can find out by listening to the whole story - it's a great one! Find a comfortable chair or cosy corner and enjoy! Story by: Maritza Brunt Website: https://www.gigistorylibrary.com.au/ Read story on the blog https://www.gigistorylibrary.com.au/elodie-and-the-glass-castle/ READ STORY ON THE BLOG   VISIT OUR WEBSITE SHOP OUR BOOKS   DOWNLOAD THE AUDIOBOOKS Special effect editing: James Wagner  music credit: http://www.purple-planet.com/  Email us: stories4gigi@gmail.com Write to us: GIGI KIDS STORIES PO BOX 6505 Upper Mt Gravatt QLD Australia 4122

On this episode of #velshibannedbookclub, MSNBC host and Citizen board member Ali Velshi interviews Jeannette Walls, author of "The Glass Castle." The main reason this book has been banned in schools? Frank and vivid descriptions of challenging situations like alcoholism and abuse. "Our children deserve better," wrote one parent. Velshi and Walls contend that children are better served by exposure to reality.

Another show with all five of us, which means more book reviews for you!

You need to listen to believe,, we review Glass Castle and guess who isnt there, The drip doesnt show cuz his team choked

Find all interviews at https://www.youtube.com/@fierceconversationswithtoby Transcripts available at https://tobydorr.com/podcast-schedule/ In this episode, Brittany Means discusses her new memoir, Hell If We Don't Change Our Ways. About Brittany Means: Brittany Means is a writer and editor living in Albuquerque, NM. A graduate of Iowa's MFA Nonfiction Writing Program, Means has worked with Inara Verzemnieks and Kiese Laymon. She has received several awards for her work, including the Magdalena Award, the Herodotus Award, and the Grace Paley Fellowship at Under the Volcano. Notes from Toby:  I have long been a fan of Jeannette Walls. Her memoir Glass Castle gave me permission to tell my own crazy story. Today, I'm lucky enough to live within an hour's drive of Jeannette and so I've been able to connect with her at several book events. A few months ago, Jeannette posted on Facebook a photo of her with a young college student, and shared the story that many years ago Jeannette was speaking at a college when a girl came up to her for a photo and shared that she wanted to be an author also. Today, that woman, Brittany Means, just published an amazing memoir. Jeannette reached out to me and said, “Toby, I think Brittany could be one of your fierce women!” I immediately scheduled her interview. Of course, I also bought the memoir – and you should too! Another powerful life story by a talented woman author! Key Topics and Time Stamps: [6:57] What did putting your story out into the world feel like? [10:24] Who has been your most important mentor? [18:58] Brittany talks about the adjustment from being homeless to being a college student. Links:  If you want to be empowered in your life, listen to Brittany! https://www.brittanymeans.com https://www.brittanymeans.com/book https://www.instagram.com/brittanymeansit/ Support Fierce Conversations with Toby: Toby Dorr: https://www.patreon.com/fierceconversations https://linktr.ee/fierceconversations https://linktr.ee/tobydorrbooks https://www.youtube.com/@fierceconversationswithtoby https://www.instagram.com/tobydorr/ https://www.facebook.com/TobyDorrAuthor Credits: Created by Toby Dorr. Produced by Number Three Productions, a division of GP Publishing. Theme song: Lisa Plasse: Composer, arranger, and flutist Caroline Parody: Piano Tony Ventura: Bass For more information on these fabulous musicians, please go to https://tobydorr.com/theme-song/   

This week, we spoke with Gabriella Lepore, author of the YA mystery novels This Is Why We Lie and The Last One to Fall. Tune in to hear her talk about the books that inspire her, how she writes unpredictable twists, and how she writes character-focused mysteries that are fast-paced and unputdownable. Pre-order Bad Like Us (out March 5th, 2024): https://bookshop.org/p/books/bad-like-us-original-gabriella-lepore/20071728?ean=9781335453877  Check out Gabriella Lepore's books at the library: https://princetonlibrary.bibliocommons.com/v2/search?query=Lepore%2C%20Gabriella&searchType=author  Purchase This Is Why We Lie: https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-is-why-we-lie-gabriella-lepore/15767351?ean=9781335418609  Purchase The Last One to Fall: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-last-one-to-fall-gabriella-lepore/18073376?ean=9781335915863  Purchase Secrets in Phoenix (Phoenix Holt, book 1) or read it on Kindle Unlimited here: https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Phoenix-Holt-1/dp/1517426979   Purchase The Witches of the Glass Castle (The Witches of the Glass Castle, book 1) or read it on Kindle Unlimited here: https://www.amazon.com/Witches-Glass-Castle-Gabriella-Lepore/dp/B09K22MCK6/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1697730997&sr=1-1  Purchase Blackheath (The Blackheath Witches, book 1) or read it on Kindle Unlimited here:  https://www.amazon.com/Blackheath-Witches-Book-1-ebook/dp/B019KFDWBY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3ATJPSL00HE01&keywords=blackheath+gabriella+lepore&qid=1697731103&s=books&sprefix=blackheath+gabriella+l%2Cstripbooks%2C752&sr=1-1  Purchase How I Found You or read it on Kindle Unlimited here: https://www.amazon.com/How-Found-You-Gabriella-Lepore-ebook/dp/B00J65HCZ6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2OQLBQ09KWLIV&keywords=how+i+found+you+gabriella+lepore&qid=1697731148&s=books&sprefix=how+i+found+you+gabriella+le%2Cstripbooks%2C707&sr=1-1  Purchase Evanescent or read it on Kindle Unlimited here: https://www.amazon.com/Evanescent-Gabriella-Lepore-ebook/dp/B08272CV58/ref=sr_1_1?crid=35IKHSD5TMS0J&keywords=evanescent+gabriella+lepore&qid=1697731198&s=books&sprefix=evanescent+gabriella+le%2Cstripbooks%2C693&sr=1-1  Purchase Friday's List or read it on Kindle Unlimited here: https://www.amazon.com/Fridays-List-Gabriella-Lepore/dp/154234915X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=37W6C0N7HYJVQ&keywords=friday%27s+list+gabriella+lepore&qid=1697731226&s=books&sprefix=friday%27s+list+gabriella+lep%2Cstripbooks%2C697&sr=1-1  Gabriella Lepore's book recommendations: A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson Check out at the library: https://princetonlibrary.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S57C1419515  Tell Me What Really Happened by Chelsea Sedoti Purchase: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/tell-me-what-really-happened-chelsea-sedoti/1141459543?ean=9781492673057  The Guest List by Lucy Foley Check out at the library: https://princetonlibrary.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S57C1425193  How to Survive Your Murder by Danielle Valentine Check out at the library: https://princetonlibrary.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S57C1454475  Lily's book rec: The Hundred Lies of Lizzie Lovett by Chelsea Sedoti Check out at the library: https://princetonlibrary.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S57C1385248  Follow Gabriella Lepore on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gabriellalepore_books/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@my_life_in_books?lang=en  Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4814169.Gabriella_Lepore  Follow us on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/keeping.tabs.podcast/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@keepingtabspodcast?lang=en  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LYdx6Eu7nLbCAxwnWgkxG?si=057a2f025c854c3d  Subscribe to our YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@keepingtabspodcast  Write a review of us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/keeping-tabs/id1535177567  Music: “Silver Flicker” by Colors of Illusion.

Chelsea and Elizabeth Day (How to Fail) take a hard look at two often compared memoirs: Tara Westover's 2018 memoir Educated, and Jeannette Wall's 2005 memoir The Glass Castle. The Glass Castle was accepted as a true recounting of a dysfunctional childhood, while Tara Westover was accused of making up or exaggerating her accounts of her family in Educated. Why would one be believed unquestioningly, and one be controversial? Is it the internet's fault? Backlash to the #MeToo movement in 2018? Or does our culture have a problem with women who cut ties with their families? Show Notes: Jeannette Walls' The Glass Castle  Tara Westover's Educated LaRee Westover's Educating Elizabeth's interview with Tara Westover on How To Fail with Elizabeth Day Elizabeth's book Friendaholic  GTT: Best Friend Breakups episode Tara Westover's brother Tyler's full Amazon review copy-pasted into this Goodreads thread Where to find our Guest: Elizabeth Day Website Instagram Podcasts Books For more book recaps & gentle tea, follow Chelsea on Instagram @chelseadevantez Become a member of the Celebrity Book Club Patreon! **** Glamorous Trash: Where we make treasure out of pop culture garbage. Glamorous Trash is all about going high and low at the same time— Glam and Trash. We recap and book club celebrity memoirs, deconstruct pop culture, and sometimes, we cry! If you've ever referenced Mariah Carey in therapy... then this is the podcast for you. Thank you to our sponsors: Tanteo Tequila -- @tanteotequila Natalie's Juice Company -- @nataliesoj Pattern Brands - @patternbrands Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: book subscriptions and bookish advents Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: the types of and specific books that kept us up at night The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  .  .  2:01 - Our Bookish Moments of the Week 5:40- OwlCrate 6:24 - Starling House by Alix E. Harrow 7:36 - Fairyloot 8:11 - Current Reads 8:28 - Divine Rivals by Rebecca Ross (Kaytee) 12:46 - The Cook's Book by Bri McKoy (Meredith) 14:07 - Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat by Samin Nosrat 15:48 - The Lazy Genius Kitchen by Kendra Adachi 18:26 - Hummingbird by Natalie Lloyd (Kaytee) 21:43 - The Wicked Boy by Kate Summerscale (Meredith) 23:12 - The Suspicions of Mr. Whicher by Kate Summerscale 23:33 - Waterstones UK 24:55 - Red, White and Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston (Kaytee) 31:51 - One of the Boys by Jayne Cowie (Meredith) 36:58 - Curfew by Jayne Cowie 37:29 - The Measure by Nikki Erlick 38:36 - Deep Dive: Books That Kept Us Up At Night 41:24 - The Only Girl in the World by Maude Julien  41:52 - The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls 42:27 - The Whisper Man by Alex North 42:25 - The Snowman by Jo Nesbo 43:12 - I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara 44:06 - Fierce Kingdom by Gin Phillips 44:28 - The Mountain in the Sea by Ray Nayler 44:46 - An Immense World by Ed Yong 44:55 - Falling by T.J. Newman 44:56 - Drowning by T.J. Newman 46:19 - The Year of the Locust by Terry Hayes 46:33 - I Remember You by Yrsa Sigurdardottir 47:13 - Twilight by Stephanie Meyer 47:18 - The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins 47:22 - Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros 50:20 - The Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger 50:42 - Meet Us At The Fountain 50:56 - I wish to completely abandon Goodreads for StoryGraph in 2024. (Kaytee) 50:59 - StoryGraph 52:41 - libro.fm 52:42 - bookshop.org 53:38 - I wish, if you like Christmas reading, for you to read The Christmas Bookshop by Jenny Colgan (Meredith) 58:39 - The Christmas Bookshop by Jenny Colgan Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. December's IPL will be a yearly recap from us, so we can give our beloved Indies a break for the holidays! Trope Thursday with Kaytee and Bunmi - a behind the scenes peek into the publishing industry All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the special insights of an independent bookseller The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

When the gang is forced to return to Glass Castle to "celebrate" Chalice's birthday they take it as an opportunity to swap the contract that binds their fate with one of their own design...Starring: Erin Keif, Waleed Mansour, Elizabeth Andrews, Sean Coyle, and Ben BriggsTheme Song by: Arne ParrottArtwork by: Waleed MansourStory Concept by: Erin Keif & Sean CoyleEdited by: Sean MeagherSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Leslie Ferguson joins Let's Talk Memoir for a conversation about surviving childhood trauma and her mother's psychosis, approaching her manuscript through an editorial lens, the toll of insecure attachment, how writing the story that forged her helped her shed some of the pain she carried, and her approach to choosing scenes that stayed in her memoir When I Was Her Daughter.   Also in this episode: -the toll of abandonment  -EMDR therapy -Reparenting the self   Books mentioned in this episode: Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls Grand by Sarah Schaefer  Blackout by Sarah Hepola Love Sick  by Sue William Silverman Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert  Leslie Ferguson enjoyed a career as a high school English teacher and college writing instructor for two decades before relocating to San Diego to pursue work in the publishing industry. She holds an MFA in creative writing and an MA in English literature from Chapman University. Currently, Leslie sits on the Board of Directors of the International Memoir Writers Association, and she loves performing original stories and poems, which often center on hope and the consequences of trauma. As an editor and book doctor, one of Leslie's passions is helping other writers tell their own stories with courage and emotional honesty. Her multi-award-winning debut memoir, When I Was Her Daughter, tells her story of madness, loss, and survival as a foster kid in the 1980s.    Connect with Leslie: Facebook Profile: https://www.facebook.com/leslie.ferguson.42/ Facebook Author Page: https://www.facebook.com/Lesliefergusonauthor/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moreleslief/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leslie-ferguson-221a1890/ Website: LeslieFergusonAuthor.com Buy When I Was Her Daughter: Amazon :https://amzn.to/3SphWmY https://www.amazon.com/When-I-Was-Her-Daughter/dp/195211277X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=when+i+was+her+daughter&qid=1638573773&sr=8-1 Barnes and noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/when-i-was-her-daughter-leslie-ferguson/1140422898?ean=9781952112775 Applebooks:  https://books.apple.com/us/book/when-i-was-her-daughter/id1592175515 Kobo: https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/when-i-was-her-daughter BOOKSHOP.ORG: https://bookshop.org/books/when-i-was-her-daughter/9781952112782 Warwick's: https://www.warwicks.com/book/9781952112775 Diesel books: https://www.dieselbookstore.com/book/9781952112775   – Ronit Plank is a writer, teacher, and editor whose work has been featured in The Atlantic, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Writer's Digest, The Rumpus, American Literary Review, Hippocampus, The Iowa Review, and elsewhere. Her memoir WHEN SHE COMES BACK about the loss of her mother to the guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and their eventual reconciliation was named a 2021 Best True Crime Book by Book Riot and was a Finalist in the National Indie Excellence Awards, the Housatonic Book Awards, and the Book of the Year Awards. Her fiction and creative nonfiction have been nominated for Pushcart Prizes, the Best of the Net, and the Best Microfiction Anthology, and her short story collection HOME IS A MADE-UP PLACE won Hidden River Arts' Eludia Award. She is creative nonfiction editor at The Citron Review and lives in Seattle with her family where she is working on her next book.   More about Ronit: https://ronitplank.com Sign up for monthly podcast and writing updates: https://bit.ly/33nyTKd Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ronitplank/ More about WHEN SHE COMES BACK, a memoir: https://ronitplank.com/book/ More about HOME IS A MADE-UP PLACE, a short story collection: https://ronitplank.com/home-is-a-made-up-place/   Connect with Ronit: https://www.instagram.com/ronitplank/ https://twitter.com/RonitPlank https://www.facebook.com/RonitPlank   Background photo: Canva Headshot photo credit: Sarah Anne Photography Theme music: Isaac Joel, Dead Moll's Fingers

Family secrets are now the stuff of tell-all memoirs, thanks largely to Jeannette Walls and her book The Glass Castle. Jeannette turned the book world - and the world in general - on its ear with her account of growing up rootless, homeless and in dire poverty. Jeannette has now moved on to fiction. Hang the Moon is her latest, the story of an intrepid young woman who becomes a bootlegger during Prohibition. We talk about memoirs and memories, truth and fiction, and what it's like to have Woody Harrelson play your father. Jeannette Walls is an American author and journalist, widely known as a former gossip columnist for MSNBC until she wrote The Glass Castle, a memoir of her nomadic childhood and family life, that catapulted her onto the NYT bestseller list, where the book has remained for the past 8 years. Her third novel, Hang the Moon, was published in March 2023. Jeannette lives with her husband on a 200 acre ranch in Virginia. A version of this episode appears in video form on YouTube but sadly we lost connection to Jeannette's video about halfway through. A transcript of the episode is here. We love writing and would love for you to read what we write. Sign Up for our Substack Newsletter. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Wendy and Maureen at womenofir@gmail.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A drive across the country. A fresh start. An unexpected job offer. What could go wrong? In this episode, Justin tells the story of how he stumbled into the orbit of a con man.  Host: Justin Sayles   Producers: Jade Whaley, Mike Wargon, Bobby Wagner, Amanda Dobbins, Justin Sayles, and Vikram Patel  Original Music: Justin Catoni of 13th Ward Social Club Sound Design: Bobby Wagner  Mixing and Mastering: Scott Somerville  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As you'll hear, Ginny and I had a different episode planned today! Thwarted by technology, I'm coming to you solo today to talk about what a thesis in memoir is, why you need one, and how a thesis will guide the reader's experience with your book. Learn more about the Memoir Method framework in episode 02. The Glass Castle by Jeanette Walls Join the waitlist for the next round of The Memoir Method Live (enrolling in early 2024). See From the Ashes go through The Memoir Method (blog post based on the podcast episode that is lost to the void) Grab your copy of From the Ashes and join the discussion.You can find me on Instagram @bookish.editor, Facebook, and LinkedIn.Join my email list to stay up to date on the podcast and everything else going on in Bookish Edits.

Ahead of her debut memoir hitting shelves in October, J.R. Jamison sits down with Brittany Means to discuss the power of the human spirit—and the written word—to combat the most harrowing of childhood memories.   Hailed by Jeannette Walls (author of The Glass Castle) as “Gut-wrenching but at the same time triumphant,” Hell If We Don't Change Our Ways untangles the web of Means's most painful memories, while crafting a tale of self-preservation, resilience, and hope. Synopsis – Brittany Means's childhood was a blur of highways and traumas that collapsed any effort to track time. Riding shotgun as her mother struggled to escape abusive relationships, Brittany didn't care where they were going—a roadside Midwestern motel, a shelter, or to The Barn in Indiana (the cluttered mansion her Pentecostal grandparents called home) as long as they were together. But every so often, her mom would surprise her—and leave. As Brittany grew older and questioned her own complicated relationships and the poverty, abuse, and instability that enveloped her, she began to recognize that hell wasn't only the place she read about in the Bible; it was the cycle of violence that her family was stuck repeating. Through footholds such as horror movies, neuropsychology, and strong bonds, Brittany makes sense of this cycle and finds a way to leave it. Photo Credits – Brittany Means (photo by Jeff Owens and provided by the author) The Facing Project Radio Show is made possible in part by Behavior Associates.

Dive with Lesley and Brad into the intricate world of cults and their underlying psychology. Gain insights into the red flags and concept of bounded choices that hint at cult-like behaviors.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:Key red flags to be aware of when entering a group.Traits of cults and steps to take if you're entangled in one.Strategies to ensure your group or business remains cult-free.Tips on selecting trustworthy people to associate with.The significance of visualizing your desired future and planning in reverse.Episode References/Links:Join Our Coaching Team For Seven Days Of Tackling Your Biz StrugglesCambodia Pilates RetreatJoin our email list!Free WebinarDaniella Mestyanek Young's websiteEp 27: Is Your Hustle Now Just a Hassle? (ft. Kareen Walsh)  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.Get your 15% discount for Toe Sox – use coupon code LESLEY15Be It Till You See It Podcast SurveyBe in the know with all the workshops at OPCBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023FREE Ditching Busy WebinarAmy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs" ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:00  One of the things to like be aware of is they do things in a coercive place, and she called it bounded choice. So you think you have fear, you start you think you have freedom, but really, there's this coercive control. There's this like pressure, like you think you could, like, maybe not come on a Thursday, but then everyone's like, "Why aren't you here?"Lesley Logan 0:12  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 0:19  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It Interview Recap where my co-host and my friend and I are going to talk about the illuminate (Brad: The what?)Lesley Logan 0:20  Leave it in. The illuminative. I saw that and I was like this is not gonna go out (Brad: Illuminative.) Illuminative? (Brad: Yeah.) You're gonna put that before her name? (Brad: Yeah.) Convo I had with Daniella Mestyanek Young. In our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen now. And like, I know I said this every week, but fucking go listen to that one.Brad Crowell 0:47  Oh, it's a great episode. Lesley Logan 0:48  She is amazing. And since then, she has been quoted in the, it was it was the Washington Post or The Wall Street Journal. Either one is still like, like badass like, not just like one quote, like, they did a whole profile on her because of like, like, because of the expertise she has in this topic. And so anyways, we're gonna get a little culty here. Well, actually, we're gonna get unculty is what we're gonna do in this episode.Brad Crowell 1:16  So congratulations. You're all cult members now? Lesley Logan 1:20  No, no, we are not a cult. We are a group. We are just a group.Brad Crowell 1:25  I know what it's the opposite of everything that she stands for. We are a group. That's what she stands for. We're just a group. Brad Crowell 1:32  We're just a group. It's a good group.Lesley Logan 1:33  You know, I think we talked about this in the podcast, we're going to do a segment she asked like, before we hit record, like, is Pilates like culty? And I said, oh, it can be (Brad: And you laughed.) I laughed. (Brad: Yeah.) I totally laughed. I said, it can be. It's like a scuff. Like a true scuff, right? And recently, I was traveling somewhere and it like, there are some people that might think that they're like part of a group. But like, if you can't go to another person's thing, because of the group you're in, that's a cult. (Brad: That's a cult.) You should be able to go and explore other groups without offending people in your group anyways,Brad Crowell 2:10  No, in no way shape, or form is one person 100% correct. (Lesley: No.) Literally not possible.Brad Crowell 2:18  I am on a fucking mission when it comes to the Pilates industry. And I'm, you know, I'll I'll probably die trying but I just I want people it's supposed to be fun. It's a fucking workout. And like you're never supposed to stop learning. And you can not agree with someone who could not like something that they do or the way that they do it. That doesn't mean you could only like someone else. Anyways, today is September 21, 2023. And it's World Gratitude Day. And this day aims to remind us of the importance of expressing gestures of thanks and appreciation. (Brad: I'm grateful for the 12 apostles of Pilates.)Lesley Logan 2:57  Hear you now. I actually really like this, because ways you can express gratitude, just like just just maybe like, maybe for maybe for the day, like, just set a reminder, like set a note that when you're procrastinating to just text, anybody in your contacts list. Hey, you know what, thanks for saying that one thing a month ago, I just thought of you. And I really remember when you said that, like, just try for one day to sending random acts of gratitude in your text messages. You have no idea whenever I get those from a friend. (Brad: Yeah.) It's like they always come at the time where you're like,Brad Crowell 3:31  You need them the most. Lesley Logan 3:32  When you're like, why the fuck do I even exist?Lesley Logan 3:36  So anyways, not to be dramatic. But seriously, it's really true. And, you know, and something that I did while I was traveling is I was like, waiting for a door to open. So I was scrolling through stories, which is like something I never do. And there was people who are posting things that are friends of mine or tangentially. And like, instead of responding in their DMs I texted them, my response would be in their DMs. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, because it's way more fun to text back and forth you know I did some voice text messages. Anyway, I could have done it. I could have done it, the DMs but it's complicated. And so I just, I also want people to see in there. I don't want people to scare their text messages. Like, you know, anyways, (inaudible) today. Brad Crowell 4:15  Yeah, I mean, even even if you don't have a specific thing that you're grateful for about them, just texting them and say, hey, I was thinking about you. Yeah, is magic. Yes. You know, so and I really encourage you to make a habit of if somebody pops into your head, tell them and you don't have to tell them what you thought about you can but it could just be like, hey, I was thinking about you hope you're loving life. Lesley Logan 4:41  Did we talk about this on the podcast about Tasha? Brad Crowell 4:43  We, actually we have, a couple weeks ago, Lesley Logan 4:47  Okay, yeah, I'm not kidding. Like me just thinking I just we we made a funny little voice note. I'm like, we're in my dreams. And it was like the thing she needed for that. Brad Crowell 4:57  Yeah, that was uplifting. Yeah. anyways, today's World Gratitude Day so you know, (Lesley: Go be grateful.) Do it. Be fucking grateful. Lesley Logan 5:05  This is your cult leader speaking. (Brad: Be grateful.) It felt like you were doing the as you wish.Brad Crowell 5:19  Yeah, right.Lesley Logan 5:21  We also we literally just wrapped up Agency Mini 9. Wow. Wow. Wow. So much fun. And I am going to have to learn how to like voice to text my computer for at least a week to get my finger.Brad Crowell 5:34  Oh, that's my jam. That's what I do now.Lesley Logan 5:36  I know I just don't think that any of the things understand my words at all. At all. Brad Crowell 5:44  Well, you can blame Siri for that.Lesley Logan 5:46  I don't know, maybe I don't speak English well.Brad Crowell 5:49  I think you're just fine. I think you're just fine.Lesley Logan 5:52  Well, Siri doesn't understand my accent. Anyways, we just wrapped it up. It was phenomenal. It was fucking amazing. It's brilliant. If you're like, Oh, my God, I missed it. You did? And the next one isn't until probably in six months. I don't actually have the dates in front of me. I don't think we've set them. And the truth is we do it twice a year. But we've been constantly only doing once a year. And we're where are we got a big team meeting coming up. So get on the waitlist. And we'll let you know when the next one is, it's profitablepilates.com/mini. And I'll put you on the waitlist for that. Anyways, you guys were amazing. You're awesome. And my only ask is that you take some action this week, take messy action. Take that information, because once you start to take action with it becomes less overwhelming.Brad Crowell 6:34  If you're wondering what Mini is it's a seven day brief snippet of our fitness business coaching program.Lesley Logan 6:41  I thought they were all on the cult. Brad Crowell 6:42  Yeah. No, we're not speaking a language that only cult members know. And it will help you lay the foundation of who you are, what it is that you do what you actually offer, who you're trying to connect with. And then how do you communicate that in a way that attracts those clients to you? And that's the key. You know, once you understand those things, what do you do with it? It's how you put that all out there and the way that you're speaking and the things that you're saying are going to attract the clients that you want to work with. So it's like an amazing week. It's absolutely worth you like exploring that. Whether you've been in business for two months or 20 years. You should do agency mini. So get yourself on the waitlist go to profitablepilates.com/mini.Lesley Logan 7:28  Yeah. And then we're a couple weeks away from getting our passes on the plane. Yeah, going to Cambodia, we'll be there for a while. (Brad: I could not wait) and it's actually gonna be really exciting because they've been making some massive changes to the infrastructure there. (Brad: Yeah, crazy changes.) Part of me is like, I really I'm grateful for the sidewalks it does mean I won't get ran over by tuk-tuk. But also, like there was something cool about like, walking (Brad: Field adventures.) while massive, like, huge buses like just like going by. (Brad: It totally do.) So anyways, we are so excited to be going there. We've got an incredible group, our house is full. If you are like someone who's like makesBrad Crowell 8:10  We're taking one of the two rooms that our manager has. (Lesley: Oh, we are?) Yeah. (Lesley: We moved her out? (Brad: Well, not moved her out. But she sent her kids to her dad's their dad's place.) (Lesley: Oh, that's amazing.) Yeah. Because we needed the rooms. Lesley Logan 8:25  Yeah. Well, that's so cool. So anyways, we'll be there for a few weeks. And if you are wanting to go on the next one, because the reality is, is that unless you really love flying (inaudible) and booking a trip across the world in two weeks, or maybe you live in Thailand, you want to come if you visit LesleyLogan.co/retreat.Brad Crowell 8:43  Very easy to come from Singapore, PS.Lesley Logan 8:44  Yeah, and also like (Brad: Singapore, India, you know, it's all very quick.) Yeah, it's all very, very quick. You can also come from any other place in the world. It's just a little longer. And then November, we'll be I'll be in Chicago, with Erika Quest. So we've got some workshops going on over there. Brad Crowell 9:04   And stay tuned on the Instagrams for that. Lesley Logan 9:06  Yeah, or our email list. So you can do that.Brad Crowell 9:11  Go to opc.me/email. Lesley Logan 9:13  Oh, perfect. Do that. And then we'll on December, we'll be back on our winter tour. We're actually in meetings as we, as this episode drops on what that tour is going to look like and cities and all that. So we should have those details out. And they will be of course announced here, but mostly if you are on that, if you're on the email, Brad Crowell 9:32  Yeah, but it's actually opc.me/emails I got that wrong. It's plural,Lesley Logan 9:36  Plural, plural. This team will get it. Okay. We want to get all into Daniella but firstly, the audience question. Brad Crowell 9:44  We do, we have a question. So this week, we had a question from when you were recently in Poland, and you were there teaching a workshop and it was basically was mostly about Controllogy right. I mean, it was a, it was a classical Pilates conference. Yes, it was you and Karen Frischmann. And then also Jay zoomed in, right. Yes. Jay zoomed in. So fun. Yeah, amazing. Lesley Logan 10:10  It was so fun. I thought he was just gonna like do a Q&A. Because Jimmy Buffett died. I wouldn't had margaritas with a couple girls for like, I don't know, Jimmy Buffett is like, Oh, my God, we must have margaritas. And we had a margarita upstairs. We came downstairs, I jumped into the mat class.Brad Crowell 10:25  Oh, like you do?Lesley Logan 10:27  I was so sore the next day, but I think it actually helped me relax.Brad Crowell 10:32  Well, the question that you got there was, how is it possible that you do all the things that you do and still have a life? How do you balance your work and your life?Lesley Logan 10:41  So I love this question. Shout out to Ivana, she asked, actually, she asked Jay, a really awesome question similar to this. She asked him like, what do you do about the clients who just want you to like, work them out? You know? And so he was on us? And then she was just like a question. Like, I think people have these questions, and they don't ask it. So clearly, people think I have work life balance, and I'm gonna tell you right now, balance is a lie. And when I told so here's just, here's the thing, our yoga teacher, Brad, he told us that balance is the art of not falling over, right? Like in a handstand, or a headstand, the ability to hold that is you maneuver in between, like leaning too much one way and then you correct and then you might overcorrect and things like that. And so what what I try to get people to understand is like, stop striving for balance. Also, what balance is to you on a Monday is very different to what balance to use on Friday. Or if you have kids, maybe there's a different version of balance when they're in school versus when they're at home. And so, so I don't search for balance, I search for making sure my schedule fills my cup, every single day. So I can show up for what the task is at hand. And I tried to make sure it's really hard for us, because there's two of us. And so sometimes when you're working it's different than when I'm working. And sometimes you have a question about work. And I'm like, but I'm not working right now. The answer is this is first, we actually do have a free webinar about how I create a schedule, which also talks about my scheduling tool, but you can just you can enjoy that or just watch that. I think it's called I think it's is it ditchingbusy.com?Brad Crowell 12:25  Yeah, I was just looking that up almost positive. That's what it is. Yeah.Lesley Logan 12:28  So did you ditchingbusy.com. It's a free webinar. It's all my business stuff. But like, it explains how I created a schedule, (Brad: It is. ditchingbusy.com) So it's free, go enjoy. It's how I create a schedule. Yeah. It's also something I teach in Agency Mini, but what every morning has in it are the things that helped me fill my cup, so I can show up for the rest of the day. And I also know the signs that I'm out of balance. And I think that's very important. What are the symptoms that you like? Are you cranky? Do you snap at people? Are you exhausted at the end of the day? What are those signs, so that you can actually look at the next day and see if there's anything you can take off your plate. And ladies, I know you don't like to cancel your friends, like you want to be that person. But you can just say, I'm actually really overwhelmed right now. And there's nothing more I want to do is see you but you don't want to see me right now. Because I'm not going to be the best awesome person. That is way better than us showing up. What Why are you laughing?Brad Crowell 13:24  Just remembering that dinner? (Lesley: What dinner?) The one where we had someone tell us that they just weren't ready to be present in this exact moment. So I'm gonna excuse myself.Lesley Logan 13:37  Yeah, she already called an Uber by the way. I you know, it's part of me and like, it's like,Brad Crowell 13:42  I look preempted, don't show up. And then pleaseLesley Logan 13:45  Try to do it before you get there. Anyways, because like also, it just is so weird. But the reality is you have the more you get to know yourself. And the more you acknowledge like that, when you just say like, I am not imbalanced right now I am out of balance that can take a whole load off and then ask yourself, what are the what what happened to get you here? Are you maybe like when we have a launch going on? You think Agency Mini is balance? No, no. Here's what we do, though. So we can show up. We have our morning routines are on point, we have our food delivered. We do not miss our workouts, but we do not go out to dinner with people. We do notBrad Crowell 14:27  We try to we try to remove everything else that from the entire week if we if we possibly can.Lesley Logan 14:32  Yeah, if we possibly can. We're really clear like the beginning of the week, we can probably have a meeting or two but towards the end of the week. It's an absolute zero, no, nothing other than that. But the week before and the week after we are we're giving ourselves we'll also give ourselves an opportunity to get things ready so we can be so we're sleeping where we're making sure we have time to ourselves. In fact, we take days off. So the point of this is to sum it up too long to read watch the webinar and to stop trying to find balance. And just be honest with yourself. Are you in a season where you're building something up? (Brad: Yeah) If so, what are you going to do to rest and repair and refuel. And if you're in a season of like, hey, everything's flowing smooth, then enjoy that, and let your creativity juices fly, but stop going, oh my God, I've gotta like, every days with the perfect day, this is not the 1950s. And by the way, y'all they were not actually that happy. All the movies make it look, they're so happy. They were having Manhattan's every night, and like not telling each other was going on. SoBrad Crowell 15:32  I think I think the the idea of like, balance with work and life, ultimately, it comes down to the decision you make in and what's going to what, what's too much you'll know, because you're very unhappy, your fried or your you know, all those things. And realizing, you know, when you've crossed that threshold of holy cow, because like, you know, I mean, we are business owners, right? We, we work all day, work all day, every day. But we don't think about it that way. I'm not like if something breaks at 10pm. Guess what I have to fix it, have to, you know, so but, you know, I might take two to 3pm and take a walk, you know, so it's your choice of what you're doing and when you're doing it, and what you need to realize is that you're that's what that balance is is like, hey, you know what, I have a light afternoon, I think I'm gonna take advantage of it. Like last Friday, I went out to lunch with our neighbor. And I mean, I haven't seen him in like six months. So it's weird that we will live next to each other and we never get the chance to go out. But I didn't have any meetings booked, which is abnormal. And I was like, let's take advantage of this and actually take the afternoon. And we went and we just hung out. Right and so sometimes that happens and other times I have to work during the afternoon and that's okay. Brad Crowell 15:54  Yeah. And then just like a quick tip if you are someone who's an overscheduler you see an empty space in your calendar, you're like yes, I can fit that in. Then you to block in like actual like schedule actual rest breaks. You also cannotBrad Crowell 17:12  I had to put lunch directly into my schedule. I don't remember to do if I don't have lunch in my schedule. I forget to eat. Lesley Logan 17:18  I think we did that two years ago. And it was like one of the best things that ever happened for either one of us. Yes, No body books calls. Anyways, there's just different hacks you have to do and then also just because the people around you are hustling like crazy, doesn't mean that you're hustling something different. That reminds me what ended on this Kareen, Episode 53? She was at 53.Brad Crowell 17:39  I'm we're gonna find out.Lesley Logan 17:41  She said might have been 23 but I feel like it's 53 I feel like she wasn't as early as everyone else. My friends, but she saidBrad Crowell 17:51  You were definitely off the mark, 27. (Lesley: 27. 20 was my second guess.) She was early. Episode 27 Kareen Walsh.Lesley Logan 18:00  She said, "Don't let your hustle become a hassle." And I think when she said that, that's kind of like a like a thing. Like if I feel really big, I'm working really hard. If it starts to feel like a hassle, like, oh my God, then I go, okay, what's going on here? Yeah. When did I say yes to these things? I think ladies, we tried to do everything like that, that I, somebody just followed, posted something because like, I don't know which magazine but Paris Hilton was on the cover. And they're like, look, she's like, rock and being a mom and a full-time business owner and this she's got all the things figured out. And I was like, What the fuck? When are we going to stop telling ladies that that's possible? No fucking way Paris Hilton has it all figured out? No offense, Paris. You're awesome. But there's, you have nannies. You have housekeepers. You have chefs, you have cooks, you have someone organizing your sets. The way they wrote the title was a Paris Hilton is like doing it all. And she can because she has a team. So if you are solo, you cannot do it all. You can only do what is possible in the amount of time you have. And the more you take care of yourself, the more you can get things done, period. Okay, now.Brad Crowell 19:11  Let's move on.Lesley Logan 19:13  Send your questions into the pod. We love them.Brad Crowell 19:16  Yeah, ask those questions. Lesley Logan 19:17  We love them.Brad Crowell 19:18  Okay, now let's talk about Daniella Mestyanek Young, a former intelligence officer, renowned scholar on cults and the compelling voice behind the memoir, Uncultured. Her life journey from the confines of a religious sect cult to the frontlines of the US Army is a testament to resilience and the power of transformation. (Lesley: She's a badass.) She's badass. (Lesley: She's an intelligence officer in the military)Brad Crowell 19:43  In her like mid to late 20s. Lesley Logan 20:04  Yes, yeah. Yes. And that's, by the way, (Brad: who is in the field) who is in the field. She was one of the first women allowed in field. And also she ran a virtual Boston Marathon and she won for the military. (Brad: Really?) And like, yes, yes. (Brad: How do you do that?) And she met Obama, and she was one of the few officers like invited. Yeah. Oh, no, no way. Yeah, you gotta listen to the book. You got to do it. We like we have like, this is, by the way. This is badass. Like, like, you know, fucking amazing human being. I listened. I found her on a cult show I listened to and I DM-ed her and she was like, Yeah, sounds so fun. And she like, I was just like, oh my god, I'm getting Daniella on the show. So great. Anyways, um, she's just really honest. And also she had all of that without having a formal education guys. She didn't go to school until high school. So, yeah. (Brad: Oh, I didn't know that.) No, the Children of God don't teach them how to read anything. Yeah, anyways. Okay, you gotta read the book. Warning, it is difficult. They're like, if you there's a trigger on like, the sex abuse that is in there. But it's also so important that we actually know what these places are doing. Because you got to know the science guys, you gotta know the science. So go read the book. So okay, I love so many things. But she she gave advice on what a cult disguise could look like. And of course, she said nobody joins a cult. And that's true.Brad Crowell 21:34  Yeah, that I found. I found really interesting. You know that you don't realize that it is what it is.Lesley Logan 21:41  Well, everyone else say I would never join a cult. (Brad: Right.) Like, okay, (Brad: Well, me neither.) Well, me neither. Of course not. But like, in L.A. there's so many cults. Brad Crowell 21:51  There are so many cults.Lesley Logan 21:52  Oh my god. There's so many cults. Brad Crowell 21:54  Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a Erawan cult.Lesley Logan 21:58  Shut up. I mean, maybe there's a small one that I don't know who's leading it. But I will say like, there were some books there was there. First of all, NXIVM was notorious for doing their workshops in L.A., there was landmark that everyone in their mother was like trying to get you to come to their graduation, which by the way, was a cult. Sorry, there. But don't sue me. But like there's so many in L.A., obviously, Scientology being the biggest one. (Brad: Right.) Every time we drove by that church, I just like oh, my god, can they see us? Do they have our license plate number? Drive fast. But anyway, she said no one joins a cult, they join a group that is doing something that is feeding their soul. And even there was like yoga classes that were so cultish.Brad Crowell 22:45  I just, I gotta hop in here. I just found a Yelp listing for the top 10 Best religious cults near Los Angeles, California.Lesley Logan 22:58  Oh, my God is (inaudible). Brad Crowell 23:00  No, I mean, but it's funny. They're like, it's it's a lot of churches.Lesley Logan 23:04  Yeah. So but the but people join a place that feeds their soul, they join things that are doing like this. They join things that are like making an impact on the world that aligns with your values. And so she actually said that people listening to this podcast are likely to be people who could end up joining a cult because you are seekers, seekers of information, right. So. So they give you these big missions. And of course, you're a part of it. Now, there are just groups. I like to think that we are just a group. But she said like there are some red flags that you should look into, especially in the recruiting thing. So, we'll kind of get into that in a second. But like, one of the things to like be aware of is they do things in a coercive place, and she called it bounded choice. So you think you have fear, you start you think you have freedom, but really, there's this coercive control. There's this like pressure, like you think you could, like, maybe not come on a Thursday, but then everyone's like, why aren't you here? For example, one of my clients went to this weekend event, and she decided she didn't like it on day two. So she decided to come to my class. And in my call during my class, her phone was texted four times, or four times in an hour going, where are you why didn't you come? Why don't you get on a call with us let's see if we can get you back? It's like, if she can't miss the third day, that she paid for. It is her choice to not be there. If you are like, dragging her back. And there's something weird going on.Brad Crowell 24:35  Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to rip rip down the top the 10 things that she does, like how she considers a cult, defines a call. So, number one, there's a charismatic leader. Number two, there's a single sacred assumption that all of the people assume. Number three, there's a transcendent mission. Number four, there's self-sacrifice required. Five limiting access to the outside world six, unique language meaning like, like we were joking about at the beginning of this episode about Agency Mini. And if you don't know what that means, then you're not in the cult, right? Like that's the unique language. Then the next is an us versus them mentality, then exploitation of the members, high exit cost. Maybe you lose your community, your friends, all that you're ostracized. And then lastly, it. It should eventually shifts into an ends justify the means mentality.Lesley Logan 25:33  Oh, yeah. So here's what's interesting. While I was in Poland, one of the people was talking to they had, they had stopped working with one of the groups, I won't name it in the Pilates world, because they had this like summit where they brought in all of their teachers. And they said, Well, these things are the things that you can teach. But if you want to teach these things, you have to be part of the inner circle, because we have to trust (Brad: There's a fucking inner circle?) She said, she's got a fucking said inner circle, and like, oh, do they not know how to build a cult, you're not supposed to actually say that. That's the quiet part. You don't say out loud.Brad Crowell 26:08  By joke, seriously, like,Lesley Logan 26:12  and someone else we coach was like, I want to do this thing. But like, it's not clear if I can do this thing. And there have been people who've done this thing, and they've been kicked out. And there's other people who didn't do this thing. And they didn't get kicked out nice. And the particular thing that she was doing Brad Crowell 26:23  The reality of kicked out, that's the that's one of the problems. I mean, that's a problem. Lesley Logan 26:27  And I said to her, I said, you're in a cult. Now, it might not feel like one but the fact that you can't provide this thing that is in no way a threat to them. And in fact, all it's doing is propelling the mission that should be theirs forward. That scares me for you. (Brad: Yeah.) And the fact that you're worried that you could be ex like excommunicated ex, is that the right word? (Brad: Yeah, basically) that makes me nervous.Lesley Logan 26:27  That's very religious, but yes, excommunicated.Lesley Logan 26:35  So some people say Pilates is a religion. But at any rate, like it shouldn't, if you have those fears, that can be your own family, by the way, like if there are things you can't say or do or be in your own family, because fear of like them, not speaking to you. That's a little bit culty.Brad Crowell 27:15  Yeah, I mean, we were just in England, and we were with one of our members who married someone from India. Oh, and she is from England. And she's not the same religion. (Lesley: Oh, she's Australian) oh sorry, she's Australian living in England, but she's not the same religion. And his family cut them out. (Lesley: Yeah) that's fucking cult. Lesley Logan 27:39  Yeah. So um, so you're probably wondering how can this be it till you see it, because you are a seeker. And I want to make sure you're armed with the right information so that as you're being until you see it, and as you're getting information out there, you don't end up accidentally in a group that is using you, using your amazingness. And we'll talk more about that in the next week's episode. Because that guest on narcissism is amazing. Anyways, I can keep going, but you should tell us what you loved.Brad Crowell 28:05  Yeah. So I thought this was interesting, in that she had a couple of examples of cult leaders that you would know that I don't remember their names. But she said, I know the mom. Yeah, I know, you know them all. If people are self-proclaiming that they're a guru. Be cautious. Be aware of this. Because they, you know, when someone puts themselves up on this high pedestal, and then tells you, you know, I am the authority, or I am the guru of the thing. Lesley Logan 28:42  I have all the answers here. I'm the one who knows, I'm the closest to right, you know, yeah.Brad Crowell 28:48  Yeah. You know, she said, actually, in fact, coaching can become this. Teachers can become this, you know, anybody that you put in a place of authority, it is, you know, it's she was talking about, like, you could be doing everything right. And then like, somehow it shifts and suddenly it like, becomes a cult and not like a group. Right? So the reality is that if they are out there telling you that they're the only authority that they're the only one or that they know what's right. And they can, they can, they're the only one that can help you like all major warning signs. Yeah, right that you've got somebody who, you know, is totally a narcissist, which we are going to talk about on our next episode, and they are effectively trying to manipulate you. Yeah. Whether they realize they're doing it or not, they're doing it. Right. Whether you realize they're doing it or not, hopefully you can identify that they're doing this. Lesley Logan 29:47  I think after we ended the podcast. So I'm gonna help like, you know, you do sales calls with people. And we're very clear with people like, this might not be the right group for you. And it's not because we don't want to help you. But if we're not the right person, like I've joked on the podcast before like, I'm not a taco not everyone's gonna like me. Sure, that's okay. Because like, there is someone out there who can lead you in all the different things that we do. If it's if I'm not the right one, or it's not the right time. And it's important that people know that. And I think like, I just think it's a little. I know that like, when you're lost, you just want answers. (Brad: Yeah.) But you have to also remember, like you have everything you need inside you. And really just surrounding yourself with people who want to support and guide versus be the hero (Brad: That's key. That's exactly right.) Someone who can guide you from this point to that point. And that doesn't mean once you get to that next point, that they're still your guide, you might pick up a different guide along the way.Brad Crowell 30:44  Yeah. And I think that's the that's like, the language that they're using, the way that they portray themselves the way that they perceive themselves, you might not be able to understand all that right away. But you're exactly right, like the person who wants to be there to support you and your growth, and be a guide along a path that they may have already taken. That's a win. But a person who is like, oh, I can show you how I'm the only person that has been where you are, I know how this works. You need to listen to me. That's a problem. You know, so she actually like what are the things I was talking about the 10 things and the 10 definitions, like how she defines a cult. And she said the second one, which I thought was really interesting, is a single sacred assumption. So all the people in the group have this single sacred assumption. And you can't you better not say the other way, because then everyone's gonna be like, What are you saying? Right, the single sacred assumption. So she was talking about NXIVM and Keith Raniere, and he told all of his NXIVM people, I am the smartest man alive. (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) And everyone fucking believed him. They just went along with it. So as a group, everyone was like, oh, yeah, Keith. Yeah, he's the smartest man alive. He's the smartest man alive. And it just was like, inherently, indoctrinating all these people with this weird decision that he's like, I'm the smartest man alive. So guess what, everything he says they're gonna fucking do. Because why would you defy the smartest man alive? (Lesley: He's so smart.) Right? So you know, that's like, you know, yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's just really fascinating to listen to this conversation. And then, you know, she talks about how, why she didn't become like a life coach, and instead decided to get degrees was because of her experience, being in cults, and seeing how it's very easy for, like life coaches, or coaches or teachers in general, to cross that boundary and become like cult leaders. Lesley Logan 32:55  I also think that like, it's, it's probably not intentional in the beginning.Brad Crowell 33:00  I don't think it starts off intentional, no. Lesley Logan 33:02  In the beginning, because like, I think like, first of all, especially if words of affirmation or your love language, like people are telling you, oh, my God, this helped me and we got this help me and you're like, Oh, my God, if you get this out to everybody, and then like, you keep going. And then at some point, you don't have anyone around you telling me telling you like, no, like, I'll have these ideas. And you guys are very quick to go. I love that idea. Not for now, or actually, like, let's we do that we do this. And not to say that I'm gonna become a cult leader, but I, but like, it's important to have people around you who will like challenge you on your ideas. It doesn't mean I won't fight for them. But it also keeps me from like, just continuing to go as if I'm the only person who knows what the fuck does the right thing to do. Yeah, and then bringing people along with me. And so I don't think people are born going to be a cult leader. But if they can't go that way, becauseBrad Crowell 33:56  Unless you watch the Umbrella Academy, but yes, no. (Lesley: Oh, really? I did not watch that.) You didn't. It's okay. The Umbrella Academy is a sci-fi show where this one of the characters inadvertently becomes a cult leader. And he's like, I love that I'm a cult leader. This is the most amazing thing. It's ridiculous. Lesley Logan 34:12  I watched how to become a cult leader. (Brad: Yeah.) Which is like just like a little satirical, because it's like, obviously it's it's really about like how these people became leaders. And I think it's, I really enjoyed it because in case anybody in your family is in one that can be extremely stressful and it can also take you off your path of like what you're doing on this planet. Because you're you can't snap them out of it like it like you telling them they're in a cult is just going to make them stay. So at any rate, like again, I really wanted to haveBrad Crowell 34:44  I think I think like liberating people from cults is a whole another conversation. Lesley Logan 34:50  Oh, that's a whole another (inaudible).Brad Crowell 34:54  If you're wondering if you're starting a cult right now, chances are unlikely that you are since you have that self-inflection.Lesley Logan 35:01  Go. Yeah, it's like the narcissist thing. Go and look at her top 10 things. Read her book which is so so good.Brad Crowell 35:08  Oh, which is called Uuncultured. Lesley Logan 35:09  Uncultured. Read her book because I also (Brad: Or listen to it.) I really loved how she shared she used the things that she saw in the people of her of the Children of God, when mistakes happen. And she saw it in the face of the men in the military when something happened. She's like, something's wrong here. Like she knew. (Brad: Yeah.) So like, I think that's really good information. And I again, I wanted to have this person on because I, as you listen to this, and you get inspired by people we've had on the podcast, or and you're working on taking the next step in your life. It's so easy for you to end up go going off your path of being it till you see it and being on someone else's path of a cult. So anyway.Brad Crowell 35:52  Yeah, well, let'sLesley Logan 35:57  Let's do the Be It Action. Brad Crowell 35:58  Yeah, hang out real quick. We'll be right back. Brad Crowell 35:59  All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Daniella Mestyanek Young?Lesley Logan 36:14  What are your favorites? Brad Crowell 36:45  Yeah, so her bold advice was? Imagine yourself like so. Okay, just to clarify she is, I can't remember what she studied, when she went to school. When she went to Harvard. And anyway, I can't remember exactly what the degree she got. But it was something to do with like, sociology and and the study of people. And she said, imagine yourself when you're 80 and ask, how do you start to backwards plan your life so that you can get to that place? And you know, this is like old school advice. I you know, I've heard about this when I was when I was younger, but it's something that you kind of forget about. Yeah. And I like bringing it back and be and like looking at it and saying, well, what does 80 look like for me? Do you want to be surrounded with like, 8000 grandchildren? Do you want to be on a sailboat sailing around the world? Do you want to be retired in Asia? Do you want to, I don't know, whatever. Like my parents' version of this would innocent me guessing. But my dad has always loved the ocean. And my mom loves it, too. And so they've always wanted to be at a house near the water. And they've been planning for it almost their whole life. Like literally, it took them like 20, almost almost 20 years to get a house near the water. They got a house 20 years ago, that was two miles from the water. And 15 years later, or 16 years later, they finally were like, this isn't close enough. And they were the whole time they were there. They are shopping for the right house. Right? So they were thinking about these things decades ago. Right? And so what do they need to do in order to retire near the ocean? They need, clearly a place to live. So they worked backwards from this ultimate dream that they have this vision that they had of themselves when they were retired. And like it continues, right? Like my mom got this. This, she had this idea where they got this house that about three or four years ago now. And it was not in great shape. But my parents love projects like this.  Lesley Logan 38:58  They do. And your sister picked up another project, she got, it's in the blood.Brad Crowell 39:02  Oh, geez. Yeah. Well, my mom's mom is now in her middle 80s. And, you know, there may come a point where she needs like in home care. And so my mom thought, well, what if we took this house that we want to retire in? And we created, like a first floor plan, where we could have like a guest house on the same level as the primary plan before so that, you know, if you're 89, you're not going up and downstairs basically. Right. And so they've been already thinking ahead, planning, maybe we could support you know, grandma, and then someday, that might support them in that same house, right? Yeah. So they're just you know, thinking ahead, working backwards from this ultimate vision that you have for yourself and this takes inflection, time to sit down and actually think through it. Lesley Logan 39:54  Do you want us to go about this also bold advice? (Brad: Tell me.) The way fitness works is like, if you want to be able to pick up your grandkids at 80, you have to be training your body for that now.Brad Crowell 40:07  Yeah. Yeah, like the age of eight. So yeah, you might have already missed the boat. Lesley Logan 40:12  You did. No, I'm kidding. But like, but like, seriously, because Brad Crowell 40:17  I think I started around 32. Lesley Logan 40:18  Yeah. So if you had, like, if you picture yourself in your old age, like, if you do want to go up the stairs, if you want to, like have your beautiful house, like beautiful master bedroom suite with a balcony, whatever, then you have to be able to go up the stairs at 40 without even thinking about it. Yeah, maybe 50 flights of stairs. So that like as we age, like things like decline. But it's really incredible. Because I have seen people in this, you know, age is really just a number because like, I've seen people at 80 who can do things that like, you're like, whoa, that's phenomenal. Like there's a 63 old woman who was like doing this like, crazy deadlift that like Brad Crowell 40:58  200 pounds, 230 pounds? I saw it.Lesley Logan 41:00  There was another woman who was dead lifting as much as you and my dad was, and I was like, okay, I need to step it up if I want to be because I'm 40 she's 23. So like, 23 years older than me. I better get going if I wasn't able to do that at 63. Anyways, I love that advice. Okay, Brad Crowell 41:15  Yeah, well, so if you're stuck and trying to figure out what life could look like for you at 80 Daniella's advice was, go through all your senses. Okay. Focus on your senses. What are you seeing? What are you hearing? What are you smelling? Tasting? Feeling? What is what is that? What is happening around you? And then how can you plan your life backwards from there? She said, that we only have one life to live. We all know this. But she asked, What do you want out of it? And, you know, I don't know. I think it's funny. Like, we have these ambitions and these goals and these things, but like, do we actually sit down and say what do I want out of life? You know, so do that. Do that. Okay. All right. What about you? Lesley Logan 42:08  Well, after that, I don't know. I actually really loved this, she said, in relation to like bold advice or getting advice from others. She said, listen to all of it. And I was like, okay, like when she said that, I'm not gonna lie. Instead, I was like, should you go like, (Brad: Should you what?) listen to all the advice, listen to all the advice, getting advice, like, you know, getting advice from others, she said, listened to all of it. And I was like, Ooh, I disagree on this. But then she said, however, yeah, if it's negative advice, only listen to the people who've done what you're trying to do. Brad Crowell 42:46  Which is like, drop that fucking microphone that is humongous. Like it's such a, that was such a lightbulb moment for me when she said that I was like, Oh, my God. How come? I've never thought about that before?Lesley Logan 42:56  Right? Like, you know, we, we talk like, we have people who want to do on demand memberships. And since we do them, yeah, I say hello. I think it's a great idea. I can absolutely reach those needs. Here are some things you need to keep in mind. And it's not to deter, but it's to actually like, if I could do it all over again, knowing those things, what would I have done differently? And because no one's gonna get it right the first time. You can learn from that. Yeah. And so anyways, I thought that was really, really, really great and Brad Crowell 43:27  Well, I think so. So here's a good example.Lesley Logan 43:30  Well, she had a great example of her own life. (Brad: Oh, go ahead.) Is it okay if I share it? (Brad: Do it.) So she wanted to write a book. And she wanted to write it, like at the book Educated inspired her and she's like, oh, I want to write that. And there's all these naysayers (inaudible)Brad Crowell 43:44  It's an epic book about cults, PS. Educated.Lesley Logan 43:47  It's less about cults and more, it's, it's more about (inaudible)Brad Crowell 43:51  It's the story of a woman's experience where she grew up in what didn't know was a cult. Lesley Logan 43:58  It's a cult of her family. Yeah. Was a family cult. So you know, but, and she is about like, people who are living in rural areas who are not educated. You know? So anyway, she wanted to write that book. And people were like, you can't do that. There's, that's not going to work.Brad Crowell 44:15  Well, no, they said that there's no way you can be Educated, Educated was such a box office hit as far as books go, you know, don't even bother trying.Lesley Logan 44:26  Yeah. And but four years later, she actually did it. And, and it was along the lines of Educated. Yeah, and The Glass Castle. And what's really funny is Roy Vaden, who was on a couple weeks ago, he actually has a really big thing that like you when you're pitching an idea, you actually should pitch it in the vein of comparing to something like say, it's the educated book, but for cults, or like, it's this for about like the American Idol version of this and it's because people can't envision something that's brand new if it's ever happened, they need to hear it how it's like something else. So but If she listened to the people who'd written books, who were like what their advice was so that she could still do what she wanted to do and not like the people around her went, oh my god, you'll never be the number one best selling book on this topic. Right? You know, which was like, Well, how do they know but like, especially when it's your idea and it's baby and this goes back to Nikole Mitchell's episode, like you have to like, be mindful of who you're telling information to, you know? Lesley Logan 45:44  Daniella, you're phenomenal. Congratulations. You are just getting started really on this incredible journey and the impact you're going to make on this planet not as a cult leader, but as a guide on like, how to make sure that we show up as boldly as we can and have the effects we want to have on this planet but without getting involved with a cult. I'm Lesley Logan,Brad Crowell 46:06  I'm Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 46:07  Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you listen to our interview recaps our FYF's and how are you going to use this in your life? Who are you going to send it to? We want to know so tag Daniella, tag the Be It Pod and oh by the way if you don't watch the pod on YouTube, this one is got multiple things going on because shout out to Daniella who can knit without even looking down. (Brad: Oh yeah.) and talk the whole time. Brad Crowell 46:34  Yeah. And look true supporters of the pod watch the YouTube channel. Okay? (Lesley: Just saying.) That is self-sacrifice. (Lesley: Brad!) Just watch the YouTube, though and if you don't watch the YouTube channel then you're out.Lesley Logan 46:45  There's a JK in all of that, you guys. Have a great day and Be It Till You See It.Brad Crowell 46:45  Bye for now. Lesley Logan 46:45  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. Brad Crowell 46:45  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 46:45  It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo. Brad Crowell 46:45  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. Lesley Logan 46:45  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. Brad Crowell 46:45  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

A former cult member, Daniella delves deep into group dynamics, drawing from her past experiences. She highlights the red flags of cult behaviors and contrasts them with the hallmarks of genuine communities. Tune in for a compelling exploration of the fine line between coercion and authentic communities.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:Daniella's personal transition from cult life to clarity.The characteristics that define high control groups.Techniques to identify underlying cult behaviors.When and why to question self-proclaimed gurus.Episode References/Links:Follow Daniella Mestyanek Young on IGDaniella Mestyanek Young's Unculture Yourself WebsiteDaniella Mestyanek Young on TiktokDaniella Mestyanek Young's Book Uncultured: A MemoirEducated: A Memoir by Tara WestoverCulting of America by Ron RhodesScarred by Sarah EdmondsonGuest Bio:Daniella Mestyanek Young is the author of UNCULTURED and a scholar of cults and extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership. Daniella was raised in the religious sex cult, The Children of God. She later served as an intelligence officer for the US Army, making the rank of Captain, and became one of the first women in US Army history to conduct deliberate ground combat operations when she volunteered to serve on a Female Engagement Team, and received the Presidential Volunteer Service Award. Daniella lives with her husband and daughter in Maryland, and holds a master's degree in industrial and organizational psychology from the Harvard Extension School. Daniella is an organizational development speaker with the Macmillan Speaker's Bureau, and you can see her TEDx talk here. In the vein of Educated and The Glass Castle, Daniella Mestyanek Young's Uncultured is more than a memoir about an exceptional upbringing, but about a woman who, no matter the lack of tools given to her, is determined to overcome. Uncultured is "a propulsive memoir delivered in the honest tones of a woman who didn't always think she'd live to tell her story,” (NYT) it's a book which explores the dangers unleashed when harmful group mentality goes unrecognized, demonstrates the “dangers of blindly following leaders of any stripe” (Kirkus Review) and is emblematic of the many ways women have to contort themselves to survive.  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.Be It Till You See It Podcast SurveyBe in the know with all the workshops at OPCBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship Join us at Agency Mini - Sept. 10-16, 2023Join us at our Cambodia Retreat - Oct. 8-13, 2023FREE Ditching Busy WebinarAmy Ledin - Episode 5: "How to take fast action against limiting beliefs" ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Daniella Mestyanek Young 0:00  Because, you know, I was sort of in your world of, you know, entrepreneurship, and how am I going to do this? And what am I going to do? Am I a speaker on my own author? Am I a teacher, and somebody told me, you know, I don't know if there's a market for your stories, because I don't know if nice girls from Milwaukee who've never had anything bad happened to them can relate. And I just immediately went to I was like, first of all, I don't think there is such a thing. As a girl who's never had anything bad happened to her. I think all women can think back to being six years old and being afraid and wishing they had a fairy godmother to give them a different life.Lesley Logan 3:25  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 5:08  Hi, Be It babes. Okay, so I'm super excited because I heard today's guest on a podcast a little bit culty. I'm constantly intrigued, and always making sure that I'm not in a cult or creating one. And when I heard this amazing woman you're about to meet today, and her journey and her story. I was like, oh my god, like, what a Be It person like, be it till you see it all the way through? I can't imagine going through any one of the things that she went through, let alone what all of that and then what she's doing today. So today's guest is Daniella Mestyanek Young. Thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you're up to these days? Daniella Mestyanek Young 7:28  Absolutely. So I'm Daniella I call myself a scholar of cults, extreme groups and extremely bad leadership. And I wrote a book called Uncultured, which is my memoir. So it's a story of my life. Being born and raised two generations into the Children of God religious cults, I was my mom was born and raised in, and then what it took to leave that kind of put my life together in America outside the cults. And then, because I'm such a high demand, high control person, I end up in the US Army, and kind of breaking barriers, making a lot of history for women, but also realizing a lot of the parallels between the world I'm in and my womanhood and the sex cult that I grew up in, in my childhood. So it is a book ultimately about group behavior that is telling the reader you know what, the New York Times called a propulsive story, but it's also kind of begging you to look at the parallels in your own lives. I say like all my readers to ask themselves the question what cults am I in?Lesley Logan 8:34  Yeah, I think that the listener right now probably has a lot of questions. So first of all, you have to read her book, you can listen to her say on on Audible. It's, it's just phenomenally written. I heard when you were on a little bit culter. You mentioned the book Educated. And that is a book my husband and I loved, the way that she tells her story. And so I have to say like, you're you tell a story in a way that you do take us along for the ride and it is interesting how you can find out first of all, I found myself seeing the repetitiveness from what the cult you grew up in to the military, but then also, when you can do that, then you can also see it in your own life, which is your goal and that's I think the more we can do it, the easier it is for us to understand like how do we get ourselves here like you You were born into the cult that your family is but like, what were the steps that got me here? This cult that I may be in.Daniella Mestyanek Young 9:31  Can I tell you first just like quick story about Educated from the perspective of Be It Till You See It? I you know, listen to Educated in 2018 and my first thought was literally, why didn't I write that book first. And then I was like, No, that's the model right? Like that's the like she did a book and I can go write my book in the tradition of Educated and because Educated with such a massive book, pretty much everyone in the industry was like, You cannot compare your book to Educated. And I was like, I'm sorry. I know you mostly say that. But this is a true comparison. And now I have, you know, four years later, I published a book called Uncultured that on the cover says, in the vein of Educated and Glass Castle. Yeah, which were the two Jacks in the field, right. So I like this story just to tell people like, don't let people tell you, you can't also be something big, just like, go ahead and be it. Lesley Logan 10:34  Ah, oh, my God. And we can just drop the mic there. I mean, I, first of all, I'd love you to share that, because one of my coaches that I've worked with, he is very much like, you should absolutely compare your thing to something that's big, because people need to know what camp you go in. So like, this is like the American Idol for I'm gonna say knitting because Daniel is knitting. If you're watching us on YouTube, I'm so impressed right now. So like, if people know if they can take your unique idea, because it's your unique story, and you can put it in the camp of something that they know is successful, then his theory it actually works really well. So I think it's so funny that people you can't do it. It's like, actually, you just fucking did it.Daniella Mestyanek Young 11:16  Oh, and I, you know, I want to tell you another story here. Because, you know, I was sort of in your world of, you know, entrepreneurship, and how am I going to do this? And what am I going to do? Am I a speaker or my own author? Am I a teacher, and somebody told me, you know, I don't know if there's a market for your stories, because I don't know if nice girls from Milwaukee who've never had anything bad happened to them can relate. And I just immediately went to I was like, first of all, I don't think there is such a thing. As a girl who's never had anything bad happened to her. I think all women can think back to being six years old and being afraid and wishing they had a fairy godmother to give them a different life. And that's why Disney is a billion-dollar industry. And I use that a bit in my sales pitch, right? Which was like, Yes, I'm telling you this, like far out fantastic story. But I'm also telling you in a way, that's like every woman's story, because you're seeing it through the eyes of this, this girl experiencing the extremes, you're going to be seeing probably less extreme, but also toxic versions of that in your own life. Wow. Like, I really hope for. Lesley Logan 12:33  I agree. And I think like also, yes, every woman everywhere, does need to maybe yours is the extreme. Maybe there's other extreme, more extreme ones out there. I just gotta hope not. But like, the reality is, is that like, we can't pretend that somewhere some girls are very safe. And they're very fine, because they are eventually going to be out on a trip, they're going to be somewhere. And also, I agree, I don't know that there's that there's any person who hasn't experienced something where they didn't actually have the words for it. Like, even when you were a child, you didn't have the words for what's going on with you, you just had this inherent knowledge, like, this is probably not a good thing. And I don't actually want to live this life. Daniella Mestyanek Young 13:12  So, and that's a big thing I've learned through writing my story. And I feel like with the proliferation of, you know, shiny, happy people being Amazon's largest number one original right now, people look at my story as extreme. But the cult I was born and raised in was just kind of the ultimate conclusion of the Duggars, right, of so many of these families and groups in America. And this is why the next project I'm working on is a book called the Culting of America. But one of the things that I've learned from my readers, and my discussions with them is that, you know, for example, I have so much in common with some of woman who grew up Mormon, you know, or like that it doesn't have to be a cult to have been a high control, high demand group environment that you were born and raised in that then influence your personality in all of these ways. You know, and going back to what you were saying earlier of like, when you're born into it, but you still have to kind of go back through and be like, why was I in this room? This is the thing I found is that after our culture or high-demand religions, or groups, we have to ask ourselves, you know, why was I in that group? And then what impacts did it have on me? And so for me, asking, you know, on the one hand asking why I was in the military, that tells me a lot about where I was personally at the time, but why I was in a cult is because my grandfather joined a cult. So for me, understanding why I grew up in a cult was kind of like going back and understanding systems and understanding group behavior. It's what led me to graduate school and setting Organizational Psychology around the same time I was writing Uncultured because really that's because I was trying toLesley Logan 15:14  Thanks for the timeline of like, when did you? So? When did so actually I would have I want to just get the listener up to date because they haven't read your book. You. You left the military when and then you started writing your book and going to college like, what what timeframe are we in because I'm looking at you and I'm like, I think I'm older than you. I don't know how you live five lifetimes before in these many years, times I am still a Daniella. Daniella Mestyanek Young 15:40  That's funny. I put together a PowerPoint of photos for the book team helping me publish the book. And that's exactly what they said, there are so many lives. I just turned 36 last month. So the timeline went, I got out of the army when I was 25. Sorry, not 25, 28. I got out of the Army in 2015. And I was pregnant with my daughter and I went to work for corporate America for a few years. And then was like, this is not for me, number of reasons. Got myself at first, just into entrepreneurship. I was like, I'm gonna start a team building company. And then I was like, oh, the problem with team building is people just think it's take a fun activity for add alcohol, and call it a team. And so I really started right around the same time, I was deciding, I was not going to go back to a nine to five job, I started kind of self-study, I was like, I'm gonna make myself an expert in leadership and culture. And I started with this idea of like, you can't spell culture without cult to you know, this comes from the same place, there are so many parallels in my life, you know, and, and all of these things are, are worked into the book. And then I was actually eyeing this program, this Harvard program for a master's in Organizational Psychology, but I couldn't make it across the country to Harvard. And then because of COVID, everything got turned virtual. So I jumped on that opportunity in mid-COVID. To go get a, an online degree at the same time everybody else was. So, use my veteran money to go back and do that. And here's what worked out so cool with the timeline. So, you know, the book came out in September, I graduated. So in March, 20 years to the day of when I walked away from the cult with zero education, right, zero days in school, 20 years to the month, I was conferred the master's degree from Harvard, and then graduation was on my birthday, 20 years later, Tom Hanks was the speaker. It was just, I got to like to dress up in all my Harvard Crimson. You know, Harvard's my favorite cult, and then go to Harvard bookstore, and autograph my book they're like, on my birthday in my regalia. So it's actually kind of cool talking about this on this podcast, right? Because it really was this five-year journey for me of seven-year really, after the army, I don't know what I'm going to be. And then I think I know what I'm going to be, but I don't really know. But just still like following a path. And all of a sudden, everything just came together five years later. And now when I dropped my credentials, people are like, oh, wow. Like, yeah.Lesley Logan 18:42  I'm sure that's part of the cult of America that our credentials are what gets us into places and not like experience. But so, okay. (Daniella: Agree. Agree.)Lesley Logan 18:54  Great. Thank you for that timeline. Because I just think that is really cool. So because we're like, it's so easy to like, read a book or read someone's bio, and go, okay, she left the cult, got in the army, now she's a Harvard grad. She wrote, it's like, she wrote a book. It's like, it's actually for you as a 20-year journey from almost like book in, to book in and we're like on a new series of books in your life, I feel like. So, I do want to like get a little definition for those people listening who may not be aware may not be like, like me watching anything that has to do with a cult to just make sure that I don't when I'm like, shiny happy people watch that. The bow all the things, high controlled groups. Can you like give us a definition of like, what those things are? You said high controll and high. what was that?Daniella Mestyanek Young 19:42  Yeah, high control, high demand group. (Lesley: Yes.) Um, so I have a, okay, I have a very specific definition of a cult. It's maybe a little bit hard to follow because it's 10 parts, which is why like, I like to have it in writing. If any of you have scenarios like TikTok, you can always find this 10-part list above my head and my videos. But I say our cult is a group that has, you know, a defined charismatic leader, although that might be changing because of (inaudible) whose members all believe in this single sacred assumption. So I say, you know, for the Children of God, the sacred assumption was that David Berg was a prophet of God or for NXIVM that Keith Raniere was the world's smartest man. And as long as you're under that sacred assumption, you can justify anything, but the sacred assumption fuels this transcendent mission, right, you have this huge mission that is so big, and so right, you're going to go save the world in some way. And it's going to require the self-sacrifice of the individual that's a really important part of cults and high-demand groups are constantly asking the individual to sacrifice for the good of the group. This is why nonprofits can become cold, like very quickly. And then this group now at this stage of the journey, right, it starts to limit its members' access to the outside world, it starts to have a distinguishable vernacular language that only holds meanings. And there's quite a few ways cults weaponized language as well. And then it programs its members to hold an "us versus them" mentality. Now you're at this pretty serious stage where it starts to exploit its members labor, have very high exit cost, and bring you into an ends justifies the means mentality. And with all of those things, I say like, congratulations, if you've hit 10 out of 10, Euro calls, even if nobody has diagnosed you as one. However, we can all probably look through that list, right and see that our groups are hitting a few, a few of these. And, you know, one of my arguments is that in a military unit, when you're back home, you're fine, you're only five out of 10, or six out of 10. But as soon as you deploy or go away to training together, and you add this isolation, this us versus them mentality, these different things, you are going to have a cultic experience. And we can't always just be like, Ah, it's a call and leave the group. So I like this sort of formula here, because it tells us where to look for the toxic behavior. Yeah. For me, this is very similar to my job in the military in the army, which was I was an intelligence officer. So I was the expert on the bad guy, I was the expert on how every plan was going to go wrong. And but when I was in school, setting group behavior, people only wanted to talk about happy positive stuff and good groups and good leaders and values. And I'm like, but but here's all the dangers, you know, and we're seeing these companies like we were or LulaRoe, you know, just turned completely into cults. And nobody's really seeing what's going on. So I like to use that framework. And I tell people, you know, if it quacks like a cult, you know, where to start looking for the the harmful stuff.Lesley Logan 23:17  I do, I appreciate you going into that framework and talking about that, because I do analysis that you brought up like we work and LuLaRoe those are like jobs that people bought into, like LuLaRoe, you paid into you really paid into joining that cult. But the women who started that that's what they that's what they thought they were joining to, they thought they were joining into creating a business for themselves that could make money and we work they thought they were like redesigning the way the workforce was and so it doesn't have to be religious.Daniella Mestyanek Young 23:47  And you know, there's two things here like nobody ever joins a cult, right they join a group that is doing something that is like feeding their soul. But also you know, the listeners of Be It Till You See It are all going to be very susceptible to join in cults because that is what cults do is they give you these big missions. Remember we talked about. So any person who is seeking to like change their life or do things differently or has recognized that the systems and the way that the world is they don't like it. Those are the people that are susceptible to join cults. And then we also don't usually talk about when we do talk about Carlson society, we talk about why and how people join them and don't see all of the red flags we don't talk about is how much effort goes into recruiting people into disguising the red flags into walking you slowly into the cults until that coercive control is complete. And then you really are under you know, what's what scholars like to call bounded choice, where you think you have free choice, you think you're free to leave anytime But you actually are under the coercive control of a group. Lesley Logan 25:03  Yeah, I so I love that you brought that up because I I do agree like I think anybody who's like seeking information to change their life and has this like, and I actually don't think it's a bad thing to want something more in your life, I don't think that's what you're saying either. But to be aware that like, because you are in such search of something bigger or something more than what you're doing, you are susceptible. So can we talk a little bit about like, what the disguise can look like. So that if the if something quacks a little bit like that, that's a cult.Daniella Mestyanek Young 25:40  Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I'll start with one that that I heard you throw out earlier, which was, well, we can't be a cult because people are free to leave anytime, right? This is the number one thing that you've got from any group. And I've even people will literally say this to me with a straight face about the military. And I'm like, you think you're free to leave the military? Anytime? Please explain that to me. Lesley Logan 26:05  I don't think so. I've not been in it but my family (inaudible). Daniella Mestyanek Young 26:08  Right. So, I think there's some, there's a really important thing about that phrase, they're free to leave any time, which is under coercive control. Not only is that phrase not true, that phrase is actually there to reinforce the dichotomy of there are two ways, my way or you're gone. Right? So there's no room for you to criticize anything here. And I, you know, of course, we saw this in the cults, but I saw this in the army all the time. And they say, you know, you signed up to be here, it's a volunteer army. And I'm going, I'm just saying I don't think all the soldiers need to be here at 3am for a movement that doesn't start until noon. I'm not saying I don't like my job, right, but they give you this all or nothing dichotomy, um, and then but in cults, when I say, you know, they say you're free to leave anytime and saying that is actually part of disguising the fact that you aren't free to leave because cults and coercive groups they know, they need to keep you you know, for isolated, busy, skinny, pregnant and tired. And if they do all of those things, you actually will not be free to leave, right? And you will have so many things keeping you in place. And so that, for example, is one of the ways of disguising, right? Like yeah, constantly reminding you, you're free to leave constantly talking about how we're not a cult and what the answer that we give to people is. Cults use these things called thought-stopping cliches, which is you know, it's the first day of the rest of your life comes from a cult leader named sin Anon, you know, they'll say trust the Prophet, they'll say, keep sweet. Boy, boys will be boys is a good one, you know, or you knew what you signed up for and it's intended to just shut down political complaints. And there's a book that shows very well the way that the cults disguise all the red flags. It's called Scarred by Sarah Edmondson who was from NXIVM, I'm actually reading it out loud on Tiktok while I'm knitting, so people can come there for snippet. But what she shows really well is that she's not blindly joining a cult, she is having questions all along the way. But every time you have a question, there's an answer. You know, and they have like, preempted this. And one of the ways I think we can see this with cult leaders is, you know, big, complicated societal questions have big complicated answers or don't have answers. So anyone promising to solve a big complicated problem for you with a very simple solution? Is a comment, right? Like, is someone who is trying to coerce you?Lesley Logan 29:06  Oh, I love this. So many tools for us all to use. And I remember, I was in college, I think I was just finishing college. I was prime for this to happen. Somebody invited me to a landmark meeting. And I went, I didn't know what it was. And I like went. And of course, like they do a really good job, like, asking these great questions to get you to give information. And of course, like, I was having problems with a family member at the time. They're like, Well, how long have you kept this problem around? It's obviously serving you something good to keep this problem around. And I remember thinking, like, I can't get rid of this family member. I'm a 19-year-old person who's trying to pay college loans. What are you talking about? So I left and I never like I didn't sign up. Also, it was too expensive. And I was like, You kid. Are you kidding? You missed my student loans or that I'm paying myself. Thank you. So I, but I remember this moment because I remember like, how close had I had the money, would I have joined it, maybe because they seem to have the answers. They seem to what they're doing so fast when I'm teaching Pilates class and one of my clients is like, I'm gonna miss class this weekend, I'm going to this thing and I said, Okay, great. Have fun, you know. So she shows up for class on one of the days I said, and I said, Oh, I thought you're gonna be here. She was like, I think it's a really weird place. And so I'm just gonna be here. You guys, her phone did not stop ringing. They kept calling her to get her to come back. Because it was the last day all these things and I said, I'm just like, I'm just going to be honest. I think it's really weird. I've never called the client multipleDaniella Mestyanek Young 30:38  screen. Why haven't you come back to class?Lesley Logan 30:41  Like, that's weird?Daniella Mestyanek Young 30:49  Yeah, and Citrix our channel is is me just like helping people, like pull out and understand these little things, right? So even for example, you know, when we first started talking, and you said, you're a Pilates instructor, and I said, Oh, is it a cult? And you laughed, right? That's a very healthy response. Because I say like, if you wanted to fight me all of a sudden, or if you had all these justifications about why you weren't a cult, that's when I get very suspicious. The moment in my book, after I've left the cult word, I realized it was a cult, right, we spent hours drilling responses to why we aren't a cult, right? Like, who does that? And so I even think it's one of those things, you know, it's one of my 10 commandments for good groups that aren't cults is like, can you can you joke about your organization, which is also to say, can you critically look at your organization, right? Because your response was, you laughed, then you said, well, it can be a cult, and then you immediately started critically looking. Right. So that is, I would say, a healthy response to for a leader of an organization in an organization that might have some things that are culty. And some areas, you know, I'm sure he could come into your Pilates studio, and point out some things about group behavior that you may be unaware of that could turn toxic. But that doesn't mean like you're a cult. But real cults, of course, do not want to fix themselves, they do not want to, you know, dig into areas of behavior that could turn toxic. And so if you ask someone a question, like, Oh, could it be a cult, and their reaction is really negative, even though cult's a negative word? Like, I usually see that as one of those interesting signs.Lesley Logan 32:43  That's so interesting. That's so funny. One of the things that I did last year, I started a mentorship and I had, there's like, 15 girls, and I had said, I don't know if I'm gonna do it again, probably do it one time, let's just see how it goes and see if I like the how much time it takes and the and the journey of it all. And at the end, I said, Yeah, ladies, you guys were so much fun. I'm gonna do it again. And they're like, can we all apply again? Because then it's just us? And I said, No, we're actually you're gonna get lots of people in. And we're not going to isolate ourselves. In fact, all this has to get out there because I would love to change industry, but I can't change it myself. I want, I want you all to be the people who change it. So we're gonna write they're not become a weird group who isolates themselves. Daniella Mestyanek Young 33:26  And this is I think, this is so important in the kind of life coach industry, you know, and one of the reasons I went more traditional book route instead of and more degrees instead of life coach route was, I personally was like, this feels a little culty. Like, we're trying to become gurus and just, you know, which is actually what charisma is, is you have authority based on your own qualities that are somehow above other people's, you know, and so I I think that's one of another one of the signs though, right? It's like, I wrote a whole memoir, I we came on here to talk about my book, how little have we talked about me, and how much have we talked about the ideas right? With you with that group, right? They were trying to almost make you this guru. And you're like, No, let's not do that. Like let me just be help her along the way. And I think that's an interesting, important distinction. And one of my favorite cult scholars, Dr. Janya Lalich, she just says point blank, she's like, there are no gurus. Like do what you need to do for your religion for your spirituality. But just like there are no gurus, it's always a danger sign. And you should always be questioning. And this was, you know, something that was said about Keith Raniere of NXIVM, which was very, very extreme. And it was all based on his claim, completely unsubstantiated that he was the smartest man alive and the thing that was said that was so insightful was any time a leader asks for your extra confidence in them, or promises you extra results, you should actually be asking extra questions or looking for extraordinary proof. Right? Because this is the thing that happens again and again, as people get lost in the charisma lost in the thought leadership lost in the guru-ness, and then they don't question. And it doesn't always mean it's gonna turn toxic, but it often does.Lesley Logan 35:34  Yeah, yeah, I thank you for saying that. I want to say to my ladies in that group, I don't think you are trying to make us a cult. But I think you really enjoy the time. But I just wanted to use it as an example. Because I do think a lot of people listening create groups, and how easy we like, well, actually, yeah, let's just make this the group that always goes and does this together. And then what you're saying it doesn't, it can't, it's just it can lead that way. So you know, and I think that's important because especially people listening who do want to, to have a community of some kind, you know, knowing that you're creating a community that it's like, are you putting yourself at the top or like, is the community a whole that like, there's the community of the whole, that's the top and everyone's kind of part of it, you know. So that's why I really loved what you how you bring things up. Because it can be easy for the person's like, well, I created this group, so I have to lead this group, and I have to do these things. And then all of a sudden, you put this pressure on yourself to be somebody, that that's not why you might have created the group in the first place, or the community because everybody does want to belong to a group. And I think that that's also the hard part of and I'm sure you're talking about that in your next book. It's like, people want to belong, people want to feel seen. So how do we create places? Where can people belong and feel seen without creating a toxic environment?Daniella Mestyanek Young 36:47  Yeah, I mean, the drive for community is huge, you know, and when you were talking about with your group, how, like not doing repetitive things can be helpful. You know, I never thought about it this way. But I was like, but that's a huge thing in military intelligence is you don't set patterns because patterns are dangerous. Right? And so I think just that right, there is an interesting thing to look at. But how do we, how do we create positive groups? Right, and this is one of everyone's big questions. Um, I'm actually ending my next book with a chapter it was going to be called good cults or groups, everyone asked about, but now we're calling it Just Groups, though just groups, but also just groups, which is kind of, if you understand this idea of, it's not a binary it's a spectrum, right? So I like to say like, a group is not a cult, or not a cult, or toxic or not toxic, right? It's not that simple, complicated issues have complicated answers. And so I, you know, want people to look at the spectrum of there's 10 parts of a cult, you can have any or none or all of them. And then how do those influence you, but part of starting to look at groups as neither good nor bad, but a spectrum that I think really changes the answer of how we look at good groups, which is something I kind of say that in the end of Uncultured, which is the need to understand that our groups are just groups. And, you know, there's this phrase out of individual psychology, which says, human beings are 99%, the same, but it's that 1% of difference that causes all the world's problems. And I feel like the DNA of groups very similar, right, like groups are 99% similar, and I've been in and studied a lot of them. But no matter. You know, the flip side of that is no matter how amazing you think your group is, and how hard you're trying to build a good group, you're also kind of only 1% away from the being the sex cult that traffics children. Right. And I think this is the most important thing we can do to build good groups is be on guard is talk about the negatives is never assume that our group is good. You know, one of my 10 commandments for good groups that are not called is thou shalt never champion last name. And it's just this like us versus them mentality. But as humans, we have this propensity to believe that our group is the best because it is ours. Our family is the best because it is ours our way of life is the best our religion and on and on. And so anytime you are 100% sure of your position, you have blind spots, and then these coercive groups again that are out there that are recruiting that have agendas that are Trying to build these armies to create power, you know, they have much more of a chance of getting you than if you're really much better at kind of living in the gray. And being like, you know, I have a great group I try really hard. But I want to look out for these things, you know, like, like, in your example, right? Another leader might be like this, these are really good girls, no women, nobody's trying to turn this into a cult, like, we're fine. I can be the leader. Whereas you are like, No, I'm always worried about whether I'm joining a cult or building a cult. So I'm going to be careful here, right? (Lesley: Yeah.) And this is something we see out of military intelligence as well that you almost don't have to prepare for the exact scenario that you're going to encounter. Because you almost never know what that is. But any level of preparation for like, a bad guy attack right for toxins coming in from the outside is going to make you more prepared for when it does go wrong. You know, and I think one of the biggest ways that people fall for these toxic groups or toxic gurus is just getting so isolated or so into it or so inundated with it, you know, you go to CrossFit every day, if your CrossFit box starts going wrong, how are you going to be able to tell? Right, if you don't have enough exposure to enough other groups? Right, be able to see when they're going wrong. See when the logic is going off?Lesley Logan 41:36  Yeah, yeah, I thank you for sharing that. Because I think it is. It allows everybody to go okay, if I'm, like, if I'm stayin on guard, I'm asking questions, and I can consciously go into a group. And, and many groups can be just a group. And if I ever feel like I'm at a point where I cannot ask those questions, I cannot be critical. There's my red flags to go. Okay. Then I like I've, I've leaned into the spectrum too far with this place, you know, soDaniella Mestyanek Young 42:07  that's 100% 100%. Correct. Lesley Logan 42:10  Yeah. Yeah. And I, I feel like sometimes I get really on guard because I was raised. I was not raised in a, like a shiny happy people type cult. But my parents, my parents were very much in organized religions. However, they changed pretty much every year for a good several years. So I'm like, I'm like, did we stop going? Because like it was, my mom. The big joke was that we stopped going, we switched church just because of football. Because we'd stopped going every football season. I think my mom was too embarrassed to go back to that cult. We had a start a new one. That's likeDaniella Mestyanek Young 42:50  It's funny, though. But this is actually some of the advice that I give to people. Like if you're trying to understand cults and coercive control, like read five different memoirs, right? Because once you read enough, where the details are completely different, you'll start to realize that it's a pattern. Yeah. Right. And it seems like that's accidentally what your mom was doing. Because you had so many, whether, whether she realized it or whether you realize that right, you started to see these patterns and be like, oh, I get like what this is, you know, because you're seeing so many different ways. And for me, I was reading about all of these different Christian cults. And so in my head, you know, 22 years old, the problem is Christianity. And then I read a memoir by a girl who grew up in Scientology, and it was exactly like, sounded exactly like my childhood and a bunch of similar themes. And that's when I was like, oh, it's that the essence of mind control and controlling other humans is, it's like, it's not only the same, it's programmatic, so we can spot these markers as it's happening, right? Lesley Logan 44:02  Yeah. I'm glad that you brought that up. I love that you said five different ones because then you're not able to go well, because I'm not in a Christian group that I'm not a cult. It's like actually what you're saying this programming can happen in any type of group. So And as we're all trying to follow that journey like you followed your journey to become an author, whatever that is, if you're listening wherever you're going, all this is is to help you what I hope you're getting out of this is I help you understand like science where maybe your your goal your ultimate idea of what you wanted has led you down to a path of like being part of some group that is not healthy for you and it's actually not going to help you get to that next level.Daniella Mestyanek Young 44:43  So the number one you know, the number one personality type that they say that is amongst people that join cults is being a seeker, you know, which I say if you're if you like to read books, or you're listening to this podcast, right, you're probably a seeker, and something that cults and coercive groups and coercive leaders will do is weaponize your passions and weaponize your discontents. Right. So if you're this person who's doing exactly what I did, I'm dropping out of the business world, I'm gonna go seek for my own thing, I'm gonna be super passionate, I want to change the world, I have joined 1000 culty groups, you know, like, those things are the things that are qualities that make you this amazing human that makes you the person that can probably go achieve anything you want. But it also can be weaponized against you, you know, and General Stanley McChrystal, he has this really great concept of like, when we are looking at threats to our leadership or our groups, we don't usually look at ourselves as one of the threats, right. So that I think is just one of those things, you know, that's really important to kind of focus on and I always like to stay away from the words of good or bad, and none of this stuff is to scare anyone, it's just literally to see, by looking at these extreme examples, we can find those parallels when they start, right. Yeah, when our group is on the international news with really bad bad stuff.Lesley Logan 46:21  Yeah, yeah, it can happen in, in your, in your local gym, you know, Daniella, I feel like I could talk to you forever. I've also, because I've just been listening to your book, like, crazy to, to get to know you more, and what you're up to, I'm excited to see where you go with all of this. Because the good part about being a seeker is that I do think that deal with all of your tools, you know, will probably educate all of us in bigger ways than we can ever be. And then those of us who are in leadership who are who want to lead the seekers in a safe, and just a group environment can learn so much more about how we can do that. So thank you. We're gonna take a quick break.Daniella Mestyanek Young 47:01  And thank you so much for listening to the audio. Because doing that was one of the hardest things ever.Lesley Logan 47:08  I can't even imagine because, like, I just how much stuff that I have to do. And my husband's like, well, when you read it, it sounds like you're reading and I'm like, Uh huh. I'm, well you want me to read this. So I'm reading. So, I can't even imagine. Daniella Mestyanek Young 47:25  Here's the thing that I think your leaders will get a kick out of right? It was like doing that I had to record it straight through in five days, it felt like it was going to kill me it was so so so so hard. But I was a trained exploited actor from the age of birth by this cult, and I got to go use my own voice and my own voice acting abilities, which got me recommended in the New York Times to read this book about them for global distribution. So that was like, those moments of like, even though this is so hard, right, like I'm doing this to own my story to get it back into like, this is how I win, you know? So anyways, (inaudible)Lesley Logan 48:06  So powerful like oh my God. Okay, where can people find you follow you work with you get your books get get notifications of your next book.Daniella Mestyanek Young 48:16  So my website is www.uncultureyourself.com you can find out all kinds of things about me there including sassy T-shirts, um, best bet is going to be follow me on TikTok at Daniella Mestyanek Young and we're there all day all the time talking about cults and extreme groups and extremely bad leadership and ways it might show up in your life. And of course knitting. And, you know, the book is available anywhere you can buy books, and I hope that you all will both read the book and then come join one of our online conversations about it because we are all learning from each other.Lesley Logan 48:54  Yeah, I agree. You've given us a lot. You got us tips and all these things, but I would love we like to end with like bold, executed intrinsic targeted steps because it's one thing to be inspired. It's another thing to like, have an action step you can take on what do you have for our listeners today? Daniella Mestyanek Young 49:13  Okay, so everyone does vision exercises, but as an organizational psychologist, I feel like this is where I must go and I have a good one. Which is just because it's for bold it's for backwards planning, right? It's just you imagine yourself when you're 80 and then you go through all of your senses, right? So dream life, what are you seeing around you? What are you hearing? What are you smelling? What are you tasting? What are you feeling? And then how do you start to backwards plan your life so that you can get there? So that's one that I really like cray because it really gets to the like we have one life to live it. What do we want out of it right? And how can we create those things? And then the other, I think, executable advice is like, when you figure out what you want to be, even if you don't know what that is, yeah, you just know it's something more or it's in this direction. Like, everyone is going to give you advice. Listen to all of it. But if it's negative advice, only listen to people who've done what you're trying to do.Lesley Logan 50:35  That's so helpful.Daniella Mestyanek Young 50:36  Yeah, like I had so many people tell me that what I was going for was impossible. And like, yeah, because nobody's done what I've done before. So they couldn't see it. But I could, but I had specific things like, oh, self-publish a book because nobody can reverse engineer a bestselling memoir. And I said to myself, well, has this person written the bestselling memoir? No. Okay. I'm gonna go find someone who has, you know, so I think we encounter this a lot in the world of seekers and what we're trying to be and sharing our passions. And it is, it is so up and down, right? You're gonna have moments that you think you screwed everything up, and then you're gonna have moments that it's all coming together. But if you just like, talk to everyone, keep your mind open. Listen to everyone, but only pay attention to the naysayers who have done what you're trying to do. Yeah, yeah, who are not the naysayers were like, that's the legitimate negative advice is learning from them. But so many other people are just saying telling you not to because they can't see it.Lesley Logan 51:46  Yeah, I agree with that. Like, I think, you know, when I started work for myself, everyone in my family who was giving me negative advice, oh, you're not gonna move how you pay your bills, all this negative stuff. It's like, Well, none of you have worked for yourself. So appreciate it. But like, that's an easy filter versus like my my great uncle who has worked for himself. He's like, that's amazing. Do this one thing. It's gonna be hard, but it's like okay, it's gonna be hard. He knows. And here's something advice I can take him. I think that's it, Daniella. Thank you so much. I also I love I love the vision of day but I also love that you put it through the filters of the senses that's really uniquely different. So thank you for for that. Oh my god, this puppy is so cute. If you're watching on YouTube, she's been doing this entire time. I'm so impressed. I've knitted nothing in my life and her dog looks like a stuffed animal. So Daniella, thank you so much. Y'all. How are you going to use these tips in your life? What are you going to do with them next make sure you let Daniella know how this podcast made you feel tag her tag the Be It pod and share this with a friend who might needs to hear it that they're the 10 signs in a cult and they don't want to listen to you. So give them this podcast and until next time. Be it till you see it. Lesley Logan 51:47  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. Brad Crowell 52:21  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 52:26  It is produced, edited by the epic team at Disenyo. Brad Crowell 52:28  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music, and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi. Lesley Logan 52:32  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velazquez for our transcriptions. Brad Crowell 52:39  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In an attempt to infiltrate Glass Castle and rescue Chalice, Seb tries out to become a Royal Strong Boy (aka the crown's version of a very dispensable secret service agent). And although he's the smallest person at the try out by far, what he lacks in physical prowess, he makes up for in heart. Starring: Erin Keif, Waleed Mansour, Elizabeth Andrews, Sean Coyle, and Ben Briggs Featuring: Jesse Kendall & Hailey Palmer Theme Song by: Arne Parrott Artwork by: Waleed Mansour Story Concept by: Waleed Mansour & Sean Coyle Edited by: Grace HarperSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

With Chalice being captured and presumably held hostage at Glass Castle, the only way to reach her is through the dangerous aqueduct system flowing underneath the city of Frasier. But since Chip is too distraught to be of use, the gang will have to call in Red Rhino and the Repayers to step up to the challenge instead. Starring: Erin Keif, Waleed Mansour, Elizabeth Andrews, Sean Coyle, and Ben Briggs Theme Song by: Arne Parrott Artwork by: Waleed Mansour Story Concept by: Erin Keif & Waleed Mansour Edited by: Sean MeagherSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Editor's note: This program was originally preempted by breaking news coverage. The post has been updated to reflect the new broadcast date. Jeannette Wells' 2009 memoir “The Glass Castle” has been a New York Times bestseller for more than eight years. The movie adaptation starring Brie Larson, Woody Harrelson and Naomi Watts also won awards. Her much-anticipated new book, “Hang the Moon,” is worth the wait. Set in 1920s rural Virginia, it centers on young Sallie Kincaid whose daddy runs the county where they live. Sallie wants to go into the family business, which includes running moonshine. But is she ready to fight through the conflict that awaits her? This week, on Big Books and Bold Ideas, Wells joined MPR News host Kerri Miller to talk about the relative morality of Prohibition in America. “In my neck of the woods, rural Virginia, whiskey making had long been a tradition,” says Wells. ”What Prohibition did was turn this money-making operation, that for many was the only cash crop they had, into something illegal. It turned law-abiding folk into outlaws.” Wells also talked with Miller about how the era mirrors the tumultuousness of America today. Guest: Jeannette Walls is the author of “The Glass Castle” and “The Silver Star.” She lives in rural Virginia with her husband, writer John Taylor. Use the audio player above to listen to the conversation. Subscribe to the MPR News with Kerri Miller podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or RSS. Subscribe to the Thread newsletter for the latest book and author news and must-read recommendations.

Do you ever feel like lust and pornography are taking over your life, and you can't break free from their grasp?What if I told you that lust isn't the real issue at hand, but rather our inability to truly see the world and the people around us?In this eye-opening episode, I share a powerful story from the memoir "The Glass Castle" that illustrates this concept and how it's not lust that we need to overcome, but our clouded vision.Join me as I discuss how God doesn't want us to simply look away from temptation, but rather to open our eyes and truly see the person in front of us, beholding them with awe and reverence.This transformation of our vision can lead us to a place where we no longer want to degrade others by treating them like sex objects. Our ultimate goal should be to honor one another and elevate our consciousness to recognize the reality of God's beauty in each other.So, let's embark on this journey together to gain clarity and rediscover the real world through our newly opened eyes.Ready? Let's dive in!Transcription: From Lustful Gaze to Awe and ReverenceEpisode Resources:    The Glass Castle: A Memoir     Regen on YouTube    What We DoWant us to talk about a specific topic? Change up the format, or just tell us the podcast rocks! We want your feedback on Becoming Whole. You can leave your feedback here

Meet Jeannette Walls, the #1 New York Times bestselling author of The Glass Castle, her unforgettable childhood memoir that sold more than 5 million copies worldwide. Walls talks about her writing life and newest novel, Hang the Moon, with guest host Susan Odgers. Her highly anticipated novel follows the journey of Sallie Kincaid, a feisty and fearless, terrified and damaged young woman who refuses to be corralled in her small Virginia town during the Prohibition era. Sallie is the daughter of the biggest man in a small town, the charismatic Duke Kincaid. Born at the turn of the 20th century into a life of privilege, Sallie remembers little about her mother who died in a violent argument with the Duke. By the time she is just eight years old, the Duke remarried and had a son, Eddie. While Sallie is her father's daughter, sharp-witted and resourceful, Eddie is his mother's son, timid and cerebral. When Sallie tries to teach young Eddie to be more like their father, her daredevil coaching leads to an accident, and Sallie is cast out. Nine years later, Sallie returns, determined to reclaim her place in the family. That's a lot more complicated than she expected. Sallie confronts the secrets that hide in the shadows of the Big House, navigates the factions in the family and town, and finally comes into her own as a bold, sometimes reckless bootlegger. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nationalwritersseries/message

Susie Boutry (@NovelVisits) and I share our favorite books that missed last year's Summer Reading Guides, some nonfiction books we think are great for summer reading, and our #1 picks for four categories, including what I have featured in my 2023 Summer Reading Guide. This post contains affiliate links through which I make a small commission when you make a purchase (at no cost to you!). Get Even More Summer Reading Recommendations with Summer Shelves: In addition to my annual 2023 Summer Reading Guide, I'm once again offering Superstars Patrons ($7/mo) exclusive access to Summer Shelves, featuring even more recommendations for the season. Summer Shelves features BACKLIST summer reading recommendations from 17 former podcast guests, our team members, and — for the first time — 20 Superstars patrons! The Summer Shelves design is clean, crisp, and unique and you'll receive it in a PDF file format via Patreon. If you'd like to get the Summer Shelves companion guide, you can sign up to be a Superstars patron here. You'll also get access to a monthly bonus podcast series called Double Booked (where Catherine or Susie and I share our own book recommendations in the same format as the big show) and my Rock Your Reading Tracker. Summer Reading [4:33] Books That Missed Last Year's Summer Reading Guides [5:29] Sarah Wrong Place, Wrong Time by Gillian McAllister | Amazon | Bookshop.org [5:53] Red Widow by Alma Katsu | Amazon | Bookshop.org [10:30] Like a House on Fire by Lauren McBrayer | Amazon | Bookshop.org [16:24]  Susie The Lies I Tell by Julie Clark | Amazon | Bookshop.org [8:25] Dinosaurs by Lydia Millet | Amazon | Bookshop.org [13:30]  Now Is Not the Time to Panic by Kevin Wilson | Amazon | Bookshop.org [19:09]  Nonfiction Books That Are Great for Summer Reading [22:35] Sarah True Story: Murder, Memoir, Mea Culpa by Michael Finkel | Amazon | Bookshop.org [22:52]  Memorial Drive by Natasha Tretheway | Amazon | Bookshop.org [28:31] Still Points North by Leigh Newman | Amazon | [34:44] Susie Provence, 1970: M.F.K. Fisher, Julia Child, James Beard, and the Reinvention of American Taste by Luke Barr | Amazon | [25:02]  Stash: My Life in Hiding by Laura Cathcart Robbins | Amazon | Bookshop.org [30:27] Daring to Drive: A Saudi Woman's Awakening by Manal al-Sharif | Amazon | Bookshop.org [37:00] Our #1 Summer Picks by Category  [40:16] Something Light / Fun Sarah: A Likely Story by Leigh McMullan Abramson | Amazon | Bookshop.org [41:12]  Susie: Romantic Comedy by Curtis Sittenfeld | Amazon | Bookshop.org [43:28]  Something Fast-Paced / Intense Sarah: Drowning: The Rescue of Flight 1421 by T. J. Newman (May 30, 2023) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [46:45]  Susie: I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai | Amazon | Bookshop.org [50:05]  Something With Substance Sarah: Late Bloomers by Deepa Varadarajan | Amazon | Bookshop.org [54:24]  Susie: Rootless by Krystle Zara Appiah  | Amazon | Bookshop.org [56:53]  Something Different Sarah: Good for a Girl: A Woman Running in a Man's World by Lauren Fleshman | Amazon | Bookshop.org [59:33]  Susie: Big Swiss by Jen Beagin | Amazon | Bookshop.org [1:02:13]  Other Books Mentioned The Only Plane in the Sky by Garrett M. Graff [3:47]  Unlikely Animals by Annie Hartnett [4:01] Cover Story by Susan Rigetti [9:11] The Hunger by Alma Katsu [10:43] Red London by Alma Katsu [12:47] The Children's Bible by Lydia Millet [14:45] Untamed by Glennon Doyle [18:15] Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson [20:52] The Stranger in the Woods by Michael Finkel [23:13] In Cold Blood by Truman Capote [23:57] The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls [35:57] Wild by Cheryl Strayed [36:13] Falling by T. J. Newman [47:05] Miracle on the Hudson by William Prochnau and Laura Parker [48:04] Raven Rock by Garrett M. Graff [48:38] The Great Believers by Rebecca Makkai [51:14] All That Is Mine I Carry With Me by William Landay [52:59] Hello Beautiful by Ann Napolitano [53:54] Fleishman Is in Trouble by Taffy Brodesser-Akner [56:32] Other Links Vogue | In Finishing Her Book, Lauren McBrayer…

Visit Kromawellness.com today and use code COMEONOVER for a 20% discount at check out!Sign up for the Mauro Provisions email list HERE!Get tickets for Tom Fest 2 on May 20th at Fitzgerald's in Berwyn HERE!Check out the Vaudette's! Listen to The Jewel Bag's EP SHITTIN' HITZ!Listen to all of Jeff's Tunes on SOUNDCLOUD!Subscribe to our YOUTUBE CHANNEL! Have Questions? Send yours to askjeff@comeonover.com! 

Jeannette Walls' memoir The Glass Castle became an international bestseller that sold over 5 million copies. Walls' father Rex was an alcoholic who dreamed of inventing a gold-detecting gizmo that would make him rich enough to build a glass castle. The family moved around a lot, usually before the rent came due. At one point Jeannette and her siblings were left at their grandparents' house where they often had to scrounge food from garbage cans. Now Walls has written a novel called Hang the Moon. about a gutsy young woman who becomes a rum runner during Prohibition. We talk about what it's like to grow up poor and how your life changes when you become very, very rich. “Now What?” is produced with help from Steve Zimmer, Lucy Little and Jullian Androkae. Audio production is by Nick Ciavatta.

Zibby is joined by #1 New York Times bestselling author Jeannette Walls to discuss Hang the Moon, an energetic and propulsive Prohibition-era story about an indomitable young woman in a world of lawlessness, secrets, scandals, and death. Jeannette describes her love of history and her fascination with prohibition, which stems from a childhood with an alcoholic father. She also talks about her feisty protagonist, her extensive historical research and obsessive re-writing, and her relationship with fiction. She also reveals what it was like to see her memoir The Glass Castle come to life in its film adaptation and what she is up to now–a beautiful, small-town life. Purchase on Zibby's Bookshop: https://bit.ly/3GQh86APurchase on Bookshop: https://bit.ly/3GSYtHkSubscribe to Zibby's weekly newsletter here.Purchase Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books merch here. Now there's more! Subscribe to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books on Acast+ and get ad-free episodes or exclusive access to the in-store author events at Zibby's Bookshop in Santa Monica, CA. Join today! https://plus.acast.com/s/moms-dont-have-time-to-read-books. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“We all want the same thing; we want respect and security and to be loved — and that's what storytelling does, it connects the similarities that we have.” Jeannette Walls, author of The Glass Castle, returns with Hang the Moon, a novel that follows feisty Sallie Kincaid as she comes into her own in the upheaval of Prohibition-era Virginia. Walls talks with us about the language of historical fiction, the differences between writing a memoir and a novel, the impact of telling your story and more live at Barnes & Noble Union Square with Poured Over host, Miwa Messer.    This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Executive Producer Miwa Messer and mixed by Chris Gillespie.  New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app.    Featured Books (Episode):  Hang the Moon by Jeannette Walls  The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls   Half Broke Horses by Jeannette Walls 

You can also check out this episode on Spotify!Family dynamics are complicated—but what happens when you learn that you have dozens (and possibly hundreds) of siblings? When writer Chrysta Bilton's mom decided to build a family as a gay woman in the early 80s, she employed a sperm donor. This man also played a role in Chrysta and her sister's life as “dad.” But he continued to donate to other women—in secret—for almost 10 years. Chrysta learned this shocking truth from an article in the New York Times. On this episode, Chrysta joins Dr. McBride to discuss family secrets, shame, her unconventional coming-of-age story, and how all of this affected her mental and physical health. Chrysta's critically acclaimed memoir “Normal Family: On Truth, Love, and How I Met My 35 Siblings,” is available now.Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast.Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcomePlease be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The transcript of our conversation is here!Dr. McBride: My family is everything to me. I think a lot about how they're like me and they're not like me. And there are many ways they're not like me, that they're so lucky not to be like me. And there are things that I've inherited from my parents that I'm grateful for, and there are things that I would maybe tweak a little bit. But I think all of us need to recognize how much we have in our genetic profile that we take for granted sometimes, and then [00:00:30] how much we're capable of change even though we may think we're just genetically programmed to be, you know, forgetful or not ask for directions when we're lost. I guess my point is it's good to reflect on where we came from, it's good to reflect on where we're going, and it's good to kind of sketch out in our minds where we fit in our family dynamic because that informs a lot of our daily health habits, the way we think, the way we feel. And today's guest is [00:01:00] such an important example of someone who's reflected deeply on what it means to be part of a family that became a lot bigger than she ever knew. Hello, and welcome to my office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is "Beyond the Prescription," the show where I talk with my guests like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as more than the absence of disease. [00:01:30] As a primary care doctor for over 20 years, I've realized that patients are much more than their cholesterol and their weight, that we are the integrated sum of complex parts. Our stories live in our bodies. I'm here to help people tell their story, to find out are they okay, and for you to imagine and potentially get healthier from the inside out. You can subscribe to my weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.substack.com [00:02:00] and to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, let's get into it and go beyond the prescription. What defines a family? What are the ingredients for healthy family relationships? What happens to us mentally and physically when family secrets are kept, and then when they are revealed? These are some of the important questions Chrysta Bilton explores in her critically acclaimed memoir, "Normal Family: [00:02:30] On Truth, Love, and How I met My 35 Siblings." In it, Chrysta describes how she learned that she has dozens, if not hundreds of siblings, the offspring of sperm donor Number 150 from the California Cryobank, and how she has reckoned with her past to better understand herself, what is nature, what is nurture, and how she cares for her mental and physical health. Chrysta, thank you so much for joining me today. Chrysta: Thank you so much for having me. I really admire [00:03:00] what you're doing with this podcast. I'm so grateful to be here. Dr. McBride: I appreciate that. And I wanna start with your mother who sounds like a real character. I mean, I kind of loved her from the minute I learned about who she was. She was a lesbian in the early '80s, desperate to have a family when a lot of sperm banks wouldn't even let gay women participate. So, tell me what she did. Chrysta: Yeah. They wouldn't allow gay women or single women for that matter. So, it was a different time. I think we forget how [00:03:30] far we've come, at least in certain parts of the country, in terms of homophobia. But in the '70s and '80s, even '50s and '60s, when my mom was growing up, everyone was closeted at that time. When she decided she wanted to have a family in her 30s after getting sober from drug addiction and, you know, dealing with a whole host of other stuff from her chaotic upbringing, what she wanted more than anything was to have this family. But she didn't know a single gay person who had had kids. You know, she knew women who were in marriages who were maybe on the side exploring their sexuality, [00:04:00] but she didn't know a single person who had set out to do this out in the open. And, you know, I describe a comical journey that she has to trying to find a father or, you know, a sperm donor for her kid. She starts with this place called the Repository of Germaninal Choice, which in the early '80s was this...basically this traveling salesman type man with a briefcase who she'd read about in the "LA Times" or "The New York Times" who'd come to your home with a binder filled with what he called, like, Nobel laureate sperm donors. And you'd flip through these [00:04:30] anonymous men with no pictures and she picked a mathematics prodigy. And that was gonna be my sperm donor. And she tried to get pregnant and she didn't. And then she got spooked and hired a PI to get a photo of this would-be mathematics prodigy. And this very unattractive professor photo came back and she was like, "You know what? I need to know the father of my kids and I want him to be good-looking." These were her criteria for what she wanted. So, she went on this manhunt and my very handsome model, musician, actor, [00:05:00] man who would become my father walked into a hair salon in Beverly Hills and she was like, "That's it. That's the one." And she took this man to lunch and paid him $2,000 to give her sperm. And I refer to him as my dad, not a sperm donor because after that initial transaction, my mother realized that, you know, she was filled with shame about going about having a family in this different way. And she felt like maybe she was depriving me of something by not giving me a dad. So, she then paid this [00:05:30] man to play a role in my life and I knew him as dad. Dr. McBride: And he promised her at that time that he wouldn't donate sperm to anybody else, that you and your sister Kaitlyn would be the only offspring, yet he was making a living off of donating his sperm. Tell me about the moment that your mom learned about him not keeping that promise. Chrysta: Shortly after the hair salon transaction, she made him swear he would never do this for anyone else. And at the the time, he was just like, "Of course," because it's not like [00:06:00] women were coming up to him at hair salons on a daily basis and, you know, lesbian women asking him to father a child. But then it became more apparent why she was so adamant about this because shortly after that she took him to the California Cryobank, which was just starting at this time, to be tested for STDs and to test his sperm count. And he saw a bunch of men walking in and out of donation rooms and he was like, "Oh, now I understand. It's because she was gonna bring me here and she knew I'd get ideas." And he did. So, while he was [00:06:30] playing dad to us, he then donated to the California Cryobank for almost 10 years, 3 times a week. I think he was one of their most prolific sperm donors. And we did not learn about this until I was in my 20s. And through a wild series of events that I document in the book, my mother discovered it from a front-page story in "The New York Times" featuring my dad with his arm around one of these half-biological siblings. And it was a big story at the time because he was [00:07:00] one of the first anonymous sperm donors to "come out" and welcome all of his biological children to come meet him. So, yeah, that started a real nervous breakdown for my mother who, I think, already had a lot of shame around our family that was so different to the other families around us. But this was too different, I think, in her mind. Dr. McBride: And how long was it between that 2005 New York Times article where his story was revealed and you finding out that this man who is your father and not really always present in your [00:07:30] life but part of your life had fathered these other children? Chrysta: So, my mother decided that she would never tell us this story. And by the way, after "The New York Times" story, like, this was a huge story. Suddenly, you know, "60 Minutes" was calling to have my dad come on, and lots of newspapers were coming to interview him. There was a documentary film crew from Canada who were gonna document the story. So, I don't know how my mom thought she could keep this from us forever, but she did. And the only reason she finally sat down with me and my little sister to tell [00:08:00] us was because, again, through just a bizarre series of events, it turned out that I was most likely dating my half-brother, which I guess is, you know, what happens when sperm donation is that unregulated. That's the fear. It just happened to happen in my actual life. Dr. McBride: And so, that brought the conversation to a head. You had to know and she told you. Chrysta: That's right. Yeah. And that was a lot to unpack because she had never told me that she'd paid my father to have me. I was told that they were best friends who had had a kid [00:08:30] together, and she'd also never told me that he'd been financially incentivized to play the role of dad. So, even though she didn't say all that in that initial conversation about the siblings, it just alerted me to the fact, which I already in my gut knew that there was just so much more to the story of my conception and upbringing than my mother had told me. So, yeah, the book is a bit of a mystery because it's tracking me as I unpack what the real story was, if that makes sense. Dr. McBride: And so, what do you think holding [00:09:00] that secret in your mom's body and mind did to her? I mean, how did that affect her everyday life? Chrysta: You know, my mother was someone who had a lot of secrets, which of course stemmed from having a lot of shame. And beyond just the secret of my conception and the true nature of my mother and father's relationship, it turned out that there were quite a few really big life events that I didn't know about my mother. Like, I didn't know about her traumatic childhood, I didn't know about a couple really [00:09:30] heavy things that she had gone through. Shame is just such a powerful emotion. I think that's a big theme in my book, shame, because I inherited a lot of shame from my mom. You know, she was ashamed of being gay. I was ashamed of having a mother who was gay. She was ashamed of...you know, there was some suicide and some other really heavy stuff in her family history and alcoholism, and she was ashamed of all that. So, you know, the problem with keeping secrets is then you can't really be close to people because you're presenting a false self and you're not really your whole self. Yeah, [00:10:00] the book is sort of me mirroring that journey to being false. And then ultimately I wrote a book about it, so I guess it's all out in the open now. But yeah, I don't know, shame and secrets, it's a topic that I'm very interested in. Dr. McBride: Yeah. And I think shame is an almost universal experience that we all have and it does so much damage. And I think it propagates this notion that we need to keep things under the vest and we need to keep secrets. But the secrets perpetuate the shame and the shame perpetuates the secrets. And so, the treatment, if you will, is coming [00:10:30] clean and being honest about who we really are and showing up as ourselves and daring to be vulnerable, which isn't easy if you've experienced trauma in your life as it sounds like your mom did as a youngster. Chrysta: Yeah, that's absolutely right. You know, there's another piece of it too. So, the shame perpetuates the secrets and the secrets perpetuate the shame, but then also close you off to other people that you can only heal through those relationships, and I think through revealing those parts of yourself and then being loved in return, which, of course, you have to then have [00:11:00] healthy relationships to find that. I feel like people who have a lot of secrets and shame also sometimes seek out more unhealthy connection. Dr. McBride: So, you're a parent, Chrysta. I think sometimes as parents we struggle about what we should reveal to our kids about our past, our own struggles. I mean, I think some parents think that we should just cover that up and not talk about how hard things were because we don't wanna give our kids ideas, like telling your child that you smoked as an adolescent might give them an idea that they could smoke. When actually I think being honest and open with our [00:11:30] kids helps them feel less alone and helps them feel less shame because they too have ups and downs and struggles. And I wonder how the secret keeping in your family when you were being raised, how that affected your mom's parenting. Like, if you look back on how you were parented, can you see the traces of the secrets being held? Chrysta: Absolutely. I mean, there was so much going on beyond just the shame and the secrets. My mom also struggled with probably a mood disorder [00:12:00] and also severe drug and alcohol addiction. And so, even if I didn't know what was going on, it was clear that I was a parent to my mother from a very early age. And even if she said she wasn't drinking, it was still clear that things were insane. I just didn't understand the cause. So, I guess that's out of the bubble of just speaking about the shame and the secrets. But I definitely think that it was only as an adult and understanding both of my parents, like, their full story and biography, that I was able to [00:12:30] get over a lot of the resentment I had about some of the more dysfunctional ways that I was raised, and also find it's not as much forgiveness but just, like, so much compassion for both of them. Because I think when you understand people's stories, you just can't help but have compassion because everyone's been through things that shape them in some way. Dr. McBride: When your mom told you about the sperm bank donor at 150, what was your initial reaction? Anger, resentment, confusion? I mean, what went through your mind? Chrysta: You said earlier, you had said... What [00:13:00] I loved about the book is that, you know, I cried, I laughed and I was like, I think those were my two emotions. I didn't know if I should be completely overwhelmed and start hysterically crying or if I should burst into tears of laughter because it felt like growing up me and my little sister had been through so much. You know, my mom was involved in many pyramid schemes, so life was very boom or bust. We were on the verge of homelessness multiple times. She had her drug addiction up and down. She also had all these relationships with women who would come in for a few years and then leave. So, family was [00:13:30] so complicated to us already. It was just like, if this was going to happen to anyone we knew, of course, it would be us that potentially had hundreds of brothers and sisters because the universe has a great sense of humor and they just wanna throw one more thing at us, I guess. But yeah, I think at the time I was at a very fragile and vulnerable state because I had just gotten over an eating disorder. I was quitting drinking because I realized that I think I just had a biological propensity towards alcoholism and so I wanted to cut that as a possibility [00:14:00] early on. So, I was just doing a lot of healing work and this was just one thing too many to deal with at that time. So, I just shut the door on it and sort of pretended that it wasn't a thing for almost 10 years. You know, also, my father had become homeless at that point and that was a whole other thing emotionally to deal with for me. So, yeah, it was just too much at that time. But then once it was a different time in my life and I was in a better place, then it came back in a really interesting and powerful way. Dr. McBride: So, what allowed you to go [00:14:30] from kind of compartmentalizing it and sort of walling it off in your mind, this whole other life you potentially had, to inviting your siblings, the ones who were known, to, like, a family reunion? I mean, that's a big leap. Chrysta: That's a big leap. Yeah. I think just a lot of emotional maturity and also being in such a different place. You know, I'd had kids at that point, I had a loving partnership, I had really healed things with my mother [00:15:00] in many ways. So, I think that I was just like, you know, you can grow in stages, I think, and take on different challenges at different times. And I think it was just, "Okay, all the other areas of my life were pretty settled. Maybe I can look at this now." But also it was the way that one of the siblings came into my life. No one in my family was interested in art, but I really was. And I'd wound up after college where I'd studied writing, I'd wound up going to this tiny little art school in Italy called the Florence Academy of Art. I only [00:15:30] discovered that school through a random set of events. And it's like Renaissance painting. It's not exactly, you know, oil painting, it's just not really something that a lot of people you've encountered in life go to study. And one of my half-sisters studied there right after me as a coincidence. And that was just such an incredible coincidence. And, you know, we had all the same friends and we were so alike, but it was one of those sliding doors. Genetics is more powerful than nurture. It [00:16:00] was so much, it was so much to think about that I was... And she had grown up, you know, across the country in a very different family and we dressed the same, we had the same gardening books. So, when she reached out to me as opposed to other times when I'd been contacted by siblings and just sort of ignored it, I was like, "Wow, this is pretty crazy. Okay. I'll have one sister, one extra sister. I can get to know this one woman because we have so much in common and the universe has put us in this interesting situation." And then [00:16:30] what was fascinating to me is she had grown up thinking that the father who had raised her was her biological parent. And it was only through taking a DNA test on ancestry.com that she learned that she had a sperm donor. And I document some of her psychological experience with that in the book. But what was fascinating was that her attitude towards this larger biological family was so profoundly different from the attitude I had taken. Like, I thought, "Oh, this is one more thing to feel ashamed of and this is [00:17:00] so weird and strange." And for her she was like, "I have always been an only sibling, I always wanted a sister. And, oh my god, now I have dozens of sisters, maybe hundreds of sisters. And my life was so boring and this is just the most exciting thing that's ever happened. It's like a lifetime movie. This doesn't happen in real life," you know? So, she was excitedly getting to know all of the siblings that she could track down. And I was just confronted with such a different attitude towards the whole thing that [00:17:30] it occurred to me, "Oh, I could have that attitude. At any point, I could just choose to see this completely differently." And that was really powerful. So, I did. So, I sort of just took her lead and, you know, she suggested, she's like, "Why don't we do a family reunion?" And I was like, "Okay. I'll host it. I'm big sister, it's appropriate." Dr. McBride: That's amazing. I mean, when you were gathered around with all of your different half-siblings, what were the similarities among you? What were the threads that were, like, undoubtedly [00:18:00] genetic and biological? Can you think of any? Chrysta: Yeah. Well, to start with the physical similarities are uncanny. Physically, I take more after my mother, but my little sister Kaitlyn looks exactly like our dad. And I would say that maybe 80% to 90% of the siblings look exactly like my dad. So, you know, anyone who came over that weekend, it was like an episode of "The Twilight Zone" because when we were just all standing next to each other, we just all looked like siblings. But there are a lot of us. You know, beyond the physical, we all have a different [00:18:30] mother and we all shared completely different upbringings. But still just as a scientific case study of all these people who come from the same sperm donor, it's fascinating. The great majority of us have ADD, which, you know, I know is proven to be already a very biological thing. So, that manifested in, you know, the first night we went out to a restaurant, all of our phones are always at 1%. We're very spacey, we lose things all the time. I'm sure somewhere in this conversation I'll trail off. So, as we're leaving the restaurant, the waiter comes running after [00:19:00] us with, like, four sets of keys, three phones, two purses. And it's this hilarious moment of, "Oh my god, this is just bizarre." Dr. McBride: And this is family. Chrysta: And this is family. Yes, absolutely. And it's been pretty cool. Since coming out with the book, I realized that there's also this whole community, it's called the NPE community, which is the Not Parent Expected. I didn't even know that was a community, but it is. And it's people, you know, who were adopted and never told, or who had a sperm donor and [00:19:30] were never told. Again, I think the origin of never telling is often rooted in shame. But those kids gain a lot from knowing about their biological origins. And even just seeing in my sibling group, the kids who were never told, they described things about themselves that they could never relate to their biological family that confused them or made them feel out of place, and then just knowing the information, looking in the mirror, and seeing a different person. So, that wasn't my experience. I knew [00:20:00] my father, but that's such fascinating psychological material to work with. Dr. McBride: Yeah. I mean, in medicine, you know, we talk about nature and nurture, right? We talk about what is inherited, what is fixed, and then what is environmental, situational. And, you know, when you're trying to help someone become healthier in some way, you always try to kind of tease apart what is something you can't control and what is something you can. And what's so interesting in hearing you talk right now is, you know, you had these, like, [00:20:30] fixed commonalities, like, these facial features, maybe hair color, maybe even ADD, which I think is nature and nurture, but it's a lot of nature, and then there are these experiences that you had that were completely different. Some of you were told from the beginning that you had a sperm donor and some were not. And the psychological impact of that on people's health is huge. And that's really where I would as a doctor, if someone was struggling with, like, addiction or disordered eating and having had that background, I would [00:21:00] suggest they lean into that sort of nurture part because that's where you can reclaim some sense of agency and control over your story, or what you tell yourself about where you came from. Because I think the...as you outline in your book, for you and for your siblings, the dishonesty, which I don't think was intentional, but the withholding of the truth really does so much harm to people, when I think in your mom's case, she was just trying to protect you. Chrysta: Yeah. I think in a lot of these parents' [00:21:30] cases. You know, I think at the time, we talked about we've come so far, you know, now there are books, you know, whether it's a gay family raising a kid or a single parent. Like, there are specific books where you can start introducing those ideas in sweet age-appropriate ways from very early on. But none of that material existed back then. And often these sperm banks were advising parents not to tell their kids. And, you know, there's all kinds of fear like where it's the case of a heterosexual couple and the man is infertile, I think there's shame in that. And so, [00:22:00] you know, "Will this child not love me the same if they think that I'm not biologically connected to them?" And so, I have so much compassion for the reasons why the parents didn't tell the truth. That's not shared by all of the siblings. Sometimes there's a lot of anger around it. Dr. McBride: I'm sure. But to me, that's sort of the varsity head space if you can get there, is like I'm sure you've experienced some anger and frustration towards your mom. I mean, that would be kind of weird if you didn't. I think we all have that and I think my kids are probably stewing at me right this minute as we speak for some reason. But anger then can [00:22:30] become curiosity which can become understanding, and that can lead to empathy and compassion. And that's where I hope I am with my parents, and I hope we can all get because I think, you know, as parents we're doing the best we can and we sometimes think that withholding information is the right thing to do when actually kids are more perceptive and intuitive than we sometimes give them credit. Chrysta: Yeah, absolutely. But I also think it's, like, of course, everything's age appropriate. Like, if you're [00:23:00] really stressed about something that you don't want them to take on, it's not necessarily something you wanna share with them at, you know, a certain age, of course. But yeah, these bigger things and especially as they are ready to deal with them or understand them, I think it's helpful to connect with your kids in that way. But, you know, I don't know, I have a seven-year-old and a five-year-old. I'm sure once I have teenagers, it'll be a whole other... Dr. McBride: Yeah. I mean, I think you're right, it has to be age-appropriate. You don't wanna share all of your dirty laundry with a five-year-old because that becomes a burden, and they can't handle emotionally a lot of information that [00:23:30] they can't relate to or understand. But I also think that kids have a sixth sense and know when we're not being authentic or honest. My kids are teenagers now and I actually love this phase of parenting because they're so able to understand things in meaningful ways, and so you can really be honest with them, it's great. But you also don't wanna be, you know...I never wanna be the person who is, like, the kid's best friend because I feel like they need the knowledge that we have, like, some guardrails and boundaries, and that we are still the authority even if we don't act like one every day. [00:24:00] What does your life look like now vis-a-vis these half-siblings? Are they part of your life? Do you connect with them? What is that like? Chrysta: Yeah. Some of the siblings call it more like a cousin relationship. I always had a very small family with the exception of my mom's girlfriends who would come in and out. But when you have so many, it's impossible to have deep relationships with all of them. There are now siblings whose names I don't know. You know, it starts with trying to keep track of their pets or their birthdays, and then it's just information overload and you sort of remember one key [00:24:30] detail that separates one person from another, like where they're from or what they're interested in. But what I have is close relationships with some of them, whether that's through common interest, or you know, location, being close by because they're all over the U.S. We're still waiting for our first international sibling. I'm sure it exists but... You know, my core family is me, my husband, my kids, and my mom, and my sister that I grew up with. But there are now this rich extended family that I see, you know, a few times [00:25:00] a year. And, you know, also all the siblings, you know, originally they were on Facebook and then they moved to WhatsApp, and then WhatsApp became incredibly overwhelming because you'd go on and after a few days of not being on, and there'd be, like, 500 new messages, and all on one thread and you just couldn't keep up. So, then we moved to this app called Discord, which is sort of like Slack if you're familiar with that, where you can organize by topic. So, genealogy is a topic, politics is a topic. You know, everyone's very passionate about their views even though their views [00:25:30] can be on either side of the spectrum. So, that's also hilarious. Dr. McBride: Can you talk to me a little bit about...? It sounds like you had an eating disorder, you had a wobbly relationship with alcohol. I mean, how much do you think that was genetic and how much do you think was environmental? Chrysta: You know what? There was some point at which my husband was getting to know me, which he was really the first person I ever really opened up to about the truth. You know, around adolescence, I had started lying about what was happening at home. I was ashamed that we had financial struggles, I [00:26:00] was ashamed of my mom being gay, I was ashamed of her alcohol...like, so many things. So, I was very much a fake person for a lot of my life. And I think that contributed to the eating disorder and the substance abuse because alcohol, I think, made me feel comfortable in social settings where I had this horrible anxiety otherwise. Dr. McBride: How did the eating disorder serve you in the time you kind of "needed it?" Chrysta: I think it gave me a sense of control when my family situation was so out of control. You know, my father was [00:26:30] living in the streets and my mom was at one point in a halfway house or in rehab for coke addiction, and I was taking care of my little sister like I was the mom and it was just a tremendous amount of responsibility, I think, early on. And I think that the eating disorder gave me a sense of control. And there was also this strange element of wanting to be childlike. And so, my physicality suddenly became, like, almost prepubescent, if that makes... It's very bizarre. [00:27:00] I wanted to be taken care of and there was some sort of reaction people would give me like, "Oh you're so delicate." I could just... I don't know, it played into something.  Dr. McBride: Yeah. I think we make the mistake in assuming that girls or boys who are suffering from anorexia are just vain or they wanna fit into their jeans. I think it's so much more complicated. I had a patient recently who was starving herself consciously and then sort of unconsciously because she was experiencing gender dysphoria and didn't wanna menstruate. [00:27:30] I mean, I think we can't assume that the path to these disorders, whether it's a relationship with food or alcohol are kind of one size fits all. Chrysta: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there was a vanity to it as well. I had had a really abusive boyfriend in high school that continued for many years and, you know, he had started calling me pudgy. And so, there was an element of wanting to, like, be loved. But I think it played into I wasn't getting my needs met and it was like I had just somehow indulged [00:28:00] in something nurturing. I was, like, gonna deprive myself of that rather than allow others to be depriving me of it because I couldn't control...I don't know, it's complicated. I don't pretend to be a psychologist. Dr. McBride: I think what you're hitting on is what so many people with disordered eating struggle with. I mean, it's a physical, psychological, and mental health manifestation of not having your emotional needs met. And instead of identifying that and then trying to problem solve for it, which you may have not been capable of at that age, you're sort of [00:28:30] channeling all of this distress into the attempt to control your body. Chrysta: Yeah, totally. So, recovering from some of that stuff definitely happened in stages. Like, the first thing I worked on was my eating disorder because it got pretty bad. You know, I'm 5'6 and I got down to, like, 95 pounds. I went into a school doctor when I was in college just because I felt ill and they could notice. They noticed how much I weighed and they started asking me questions about my eating. And for whatever reason, I don't know if it was this [00:29:00] overriding desire to be healthy because I was both anorexic and bulimic. And so, I admitted that I sometimes threw up, enough to give this woman who I was speaking to plenty of red siren warning signs. And so, for whatever reason she just made me sign away that I would go into treatment for that. And so, I started seeing a therapist once a week. And luckily, I think when you catch that disorder pretty early, I had only been in it for two years, two or three years, I think there's a lot more success rate than people who have been struggling with it for a long time. So, I started seeing this [00:29:30] wonderful therapist. And she was working on some of the psychological piece, but she also just wanted me to gain weight. And so, even though I wasn't necessarily figuring out all the reasons why I was anorexic, I would just sit at the plate and, like, force myself to eat. So, I'm really grateful that I'm fully recovered. I don't struggle with it at all. Dr. McBride: It's incredible that you must have had very good treatment because a lot of people don't fully recover and never do. It's so interesting that you say the thing about the...just eating. You know, my patients who have anorexia get [00:30:00] so mad at me or the nutritionist, or the psychologist that they're being forced to eat when they're like, "I'd rather just talk about what's going on and what the roots of this are." Or, they just don't wanna do it at all, but... Chrysta: They just don't wanna get to it yet. So, they're like, "Let's stall." Dr. McBride: Well, they wanna be the one anorexic in the history of treatment who can stay underweight and underfed. They think that there's, like, a workaround. But the reason you have to eat before you talk about the feelings is because until you're fed, you can't really get to the root causes. I mean, if you're underfed, your brain just isn't [00:30:30] working properly. So, vitamin F is the most important ingredient, food, for then uncovering what the root causes are and connecting the dots between what's happened in your life and what's happening in your mind to then be healthy. Chrysta: Definitely. Yeah. And there's this concept that I was introduced to, which in general I think with getting healthy over things is, like, contrary action. So, it's like even while you're maybe sitting with a therapist and talking about all the reasons why you do something that you know to be dysfunctional, you can do that but [00:31:00] you can also just behave in the way that you know is the functional way. Dr. McBride: Yes. Chrysta: Even if it's against your instincts. And then sometimes the behavior can lead to the health too. Like, it can be a reverse. Dr. McBride: Yes, you're exactly right. You can stop drinking even though you may have convinced yourself, you know, "This is just temporary and I probably am fine drinking," which will then reinforce your recovery and you can talk in AA or with a therapist about the reasons behind why you drink too [00:31:30] much and kind of hit it from both angles. So, there's the practical, the psychological way of getting ourselves out of behaviors that are self-sabotaging. So, it sounds like, for you, the disordered eating and the alcohol served a purpose. Chrysta: And relationships as well. I would say that my biggest addiction was to toxic relationships, both female friendships and men that I was attracted to. With the nurture side, you can understand why I had loved my mother who was a drug addict, and [00:32:00] that there are patterns to that type of relationship that you get into. So, I was very attracted to men who just could not show up for me emotionally, or who I had to say because ultimately they couldn't meet my needs. So, it took a lot of work to get over that one too. Dr. McBride: Yeah, that's a big one and one we commonly see, you know, in the world and I see and my patients and in friends. I think the saying is that we're comfortably uncomfortable, right? It's like you know your discomfort, and so then you gravitate to repeat history. It's like a repetition [00:32:30] compulsion that we have until the light bulb goes on and you're like, "Wait a minute. This relationship is not serving me. It's actually unhealthy." So, when did that happen for you vis-a-vis relationships? Chrysta: That one happened later. So, I'd say I, like, hit the eating disorder then the addiction, then even though I had recovered from those things, I was in this, I would say I was addicted to this guy that I had been on and off for 10 years. And I tell a little bit of that crazy story in the book, but that's just a sliver. And he was physically abusive and psychologically, and I think [00:33:00] just mentally unwell. I actually don't think he was a bad person. I just think he had a real mental illness but I could just not stay away from this person. And I think it was only when we started talking about kids and I was like, "Oh." There was this instinct where I was, like, for whatever reason, I could allow someone to treat me that way. But when I suddenly imagine little kids in the picture, that was the thing that allowed me to finally end that relationship. Thank goodness. I think just because I had had, you know, my parents, who I do have [00:33:30] so much compassion for, I think they had been really hurt in their childhood and then they had not fully healed enough that they could parent in a healthy way. And I think just not wanting to do that to a kid was really the thing. Dr. McBride: Well, you had clearly suffered so much in your childhood and you'd already worked so hard to get through the disordered eating and the alcohol issue. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you just didn't wanna pass on any of that chaos to the extent you have control over that as a parent. Chrysta: Yeah. No, that's exactly right. Which of course doesn't mean that [00:34:00] like, "Oh, now there are no challenges and it's..." you know, life continues to throw challenges in your way. But to the extent that there's stuff I can do that I can work on, yeah, you know, trying. There's progress, not perfection. Dr. McBride: That's right. So, what's your relationship with your mother like now? Chrysta: Oh, it's a great relationship. I'm so happy to say she's sober for more than a decade. And I'm still very much her parent and there's some codependency there on her side. So, it's not like, oh, we completely went to a [00:34:30] normal relationship. Like, she sometimes accidentally calls me mom. You know, I take full financial care of her, which at one point was a real stress but is now okay. Thank goodness. But she is an extraordinary grandparent and she's just a really beautiful person.  Dr. McBride: That's incredible. It's really a testament to your sort of inner strength and also just the work you've done that you have so much compassion and forgiveness for her. Because like I said in the beginning, it's really the book is kind of, like, a love letter to her, which you [00:35:00] wouldn't expect because, you know, things started out pretty chaotically. Chrysta: Yeah. You know, the big thing that stopped me from writing this book, you know, even before I knew about the siblings, I was compelled to write the story of me and my mother. And I would do various drafts throughout the years. And I think there was one time when I'd accidentally left a draft on my computer and she'd found it and she went to hysterics, and she was so upset and she couldn't believe I was writing this thing. And so, I think I put the project down for, like, 10 years because I was like I didn't wanna hurt my mom because there was a lot of challenging [00:35:30] material in that book. And I think that I was also worried that beyond getting over the hump of her feelings about it, which was a long process, it was also not wanting readers to judge her. And, you know, everyone's like, "I have all these problems with my mom," but as soon as you hear other people telling you, "Oh, she was a terrible mother," you take offense to that even if you hold sometimes those views. But I've been pleasantly surprised that for the most part, of course, you know, once you get [00:36:00] a lot of readers, people have divergent views. But for the most part, people have loved the character of my mother. And she is a character. I would say that there's never been anyone like her. Dr. McBride: If you're listening to this, you have to read this book not only because of the story of the sperm donor and your myriad siblings but because of your mom. And you paint her in a very empathetic, protective, and beautiful light. Chrysta: Oh, thanks. Yeah, I tried to bridge the gap I think between being honest because it got hard, you know, when she was doing lines in the carpool [00:36:30] for our high school, things got dark. But I think sometimes it's also good to see stories of that, and then see that you can get through it and out of it. Of course, that's not everyone's. My dad is still on the streets. So, it's not like it's a perfect Hollywood ending, although he's happy in his way with that. Dr. McBride: So, what would you say, what is a family? What defines a family? Is it the people that we are genetically connected to, or is it people that you cultivate a relationship with? Chrysta: I think it's different for [00:37:00] every single person and there's, like, a journey to figuring out what that is for you. But I'd say that whatever you define family as, it's such an important component of mental health to feel that you have a family, and even if you're building that. You know, I know some people that grew up in situations where they couldn't find peace with their parent because it wasn't...you know, maybe it was someone who had more ill intentions or had really done serious damage. So, I would never say, like, go find peace with that person. My conception of family is ever-changing. [00:37:30] But you've definitely built family through shared experiences. So, even if biology brings people into my life, it doesn't become family until you've spent time together. Dr. McBride: And I think, to me, family is also about shared vulnerability. It's about feeling safe to kind of show up as our true authentic selves, and it's about being seen and being heard. And it's also, to me at least, about people celebrating your [00:38:00] wins with you, and then mourning your losses with you, and being there for the highs and the lows. Chrysta: Yeah, the people that you share your deepest life with, I would say. Dr. McBride: That's right. So, Chrysta, what do you do now in your everyday life to maintain your health? Let's start with mental health first. Not that mental and physical health are separate. In fact, that's the whole point of this podcast. But what do you do to maintain your mental health? Chrysta: I would say spending time with loved ones, trying to be a good person, you know, trying to be a present [00:38:30] parent. I'm still sober, I participate in some groups through that. Speaking of the biological component, like, I am on an SSRI, and that helped me a lot. And whether that's nature or nurture, a lot of the siblings are also on meds. So, I don't know that's important to mention as well, I think. Because, like, I could never meditate until I was on that and people would be like, "If you just meditated, it would go away." And I was like, "Well." Dr. McBride: I'm really glad you mentioned the SSRI part because it is always a question, "Is my anxiety disorder, is [00:39:00] my depression genetic or is it environmental? Should I be doing therapy or meds? Should I be doing both?" And I think we can't really measure in blood or with testing, like, how much someone's emotional health or emotional challenges are genetic and how much are environmental. But there's a role for medication. I completely agree with the people who say that we have, in many ways, medicalized the human condition and that we're over-prescribing Prozac. But [00:39:30] I only believe that when we're talking about not understanding the person in their deepest truest sense and simply prescribing a pill and assuming that the pill will do the work. But for so many of my patients, and it sounds like for you, the medication is just another tool in the toolkit in addition to the work you do in sober groups, the work you do in therapy, and then just showing up as you are. And so, I think it's really important to destigmatize medication. It's [00:40:00] not a crutch, it's a tool like all the other things you do. Chrysta: Totally. Also, like, I don't know that it would've worked had I not been able to do all the work to get over some of the things. I don't know if I'd medicate and then suddenly my eating disorder would've gone. I had to do a lot of work on that and I had to do a tremendous amount of therapy to get out of my abusive relationship cycle, and I had to do a ton of work to be sober. But after I had done all that work, and I would say I did a ton of it, I still had this crippling anxiety. I did [00:40:30] have a block against medication in my brain and it took a lot...you know, and I don't know what exactly that block was, but I remember seeing the psychologist and he is like, "Let's just say, I'm not saying there's any proof that this is the case, but let's say that taking this takes one year off your life, but the rest of those years that you live, you're a less anxious person, would you still take it?" I was like, "Yeah, that would be great." And so, I was like, "What is that thing?" And he is like, "Also you could just get right off, you know, in a responsible way with a..." And I had also seen because I came from a family of drug addiction, I was [00:41:00] very terrified of pills because I had worked so hard to be sober and, you know, that's why I have ADD and I don't medicate for it because I'm like, "There is some possibility of abuse there. I don't wanna go anywhere near it." Not saying that people shouldn't. But finally, I was like, "Look, I've done all this work and for some reason, this is still happening. Maybe I don't need it forever, but I'll try it." And it really helped me. Dr. McBride: Yeah. I think some of the reasons that people get hung up on these medications and not taking them when they're appropriate is exactly what you said. They're afraid of kind of losing control. Maybe this wasn't your situation, but they're afraid [00:41:30] of being, you know, labeled as, like, mentally ill officially if they're on medication or they think they can just do more work, which is, of course, noble and valiant and wonderful and needed. But, for example, Prozac is not gonna make an anorexic eat necessarily. Food is more important than serotonin at that moment, right? All the work you did kind of laid the groundwork for, I would imagine, the SSRI helping with that, whatever, 5%, 10% of anxiety that needed to be turned down on [00:42:00] the volume knob. And by the way, you're not gonna probably have a year lopped off of your life because of the SSRI. I would argue that you'll probably live longer because you won't have all this unnecessary cortisol and adrenaline coursing through your veins, like, raising your blood pressure and heart rate. And again, it's not a panacea. And that's the mistake we make, I think, is that you know it's gonna do the work then it's gonna fix all of our problems when actually, you know, just, like, going for a brisk walk or you know, connecting with an old friend. Like, that's just part of the [00:42:30] puzzle. Chrysta: A hundred percent. Yeah. Dr. McBride: And then what do you do for your physical health now? I mean, do you exercise? Do you eat healthy? Chrysta: I do eat healthy. I indulge as well, but I eat very healthy. I don't cook. That was not part of our family tradition, but my husband thankfully does. So, I'm cooked five-star meals for most of my meals, which I'm very grateful for. I eat healthy and I need to start exercising, but that's maybe on this year's bucket list. I do have two small children. So, I would say that that is a very [00:43:00] physically active role, but I need to throw exercise into there for sure. Dr. McBride: I mean, it sounds like you're like most people. You do a lot of things well, you have aspirations, and then you're giving yourself a little break for not doing things perfectly. Tell me as a final question, if you could, what the process of writing this book and getting it out there in the world did for you in terms of kind of, I don't wanna say the word closure because that's too cliche or cute, but, like, what did it do psychologically to get this book out there in the [00:43:30] public? Chrysta: I think closure, yeah, it is cute, but I do think that there was an element of closure. I think there was also, like...talk about contrary action. Like, I had been so ashamed of the story for so long and it's sort of been eating inside me and now the story is fully out there. And I think that the deepest motivation for writing the book was that at different points in my life, memoirs specifically as a genre, but I guess literature as well in general, novels, contributed so much to me feeling less alone. You know, I read "Glass Castle." Dr. McBride: [00:44:00] I was gonna say you must have read "Glass Castle." Chrysta: Yeah. My sister brought it to me actually because she had been assigned it in school and she brought it to me, you know, in secret like it was, you know, the secret gift and she said, "You've gotta read this. It's our story." Even though it's not our story, our story is so different, but we just couldn't believe that a woman had been through this thing that she was so ashamed of and then she'd written a book and put it all out there and wasn't ashamed anymore. So, I think in that way, the stories are similar. But what I got so much from it was just feeling less [00:44:30] alone and feeling like, "Oh, I'm not in a place yet where I'm ready to share this story." You know, I think part of me thought in my own case, I was like, "No man is ever gonna marry me if he knows that I have this history of mental health, I have this crazy family. You know, no one's gonna ever sign up for this." I'm so glad that that didn't turn out to be true. But I think that memoirs specifically, I think when people vulnerably share their truth, it just helps you to frame your own truth. And so, I think that I had already gotten to a place where [00:45:00] I was more open. I just love memoir. And for whatever reason, I also just have this deep urge to tell this story from a really young age. And I don't know exactly, I can't fully understand why I had that deep urge, but it ate at me that I hadn't done it. And so, now I just feel a deep sense of relief that it's completed. I listened to another one of your podcast episodes, which was so wonderful with that amazing author "Corrections in Ink." And she said something about, like, she had [00:45:30] not had compassion for herself until she was rereading her book and could see herself as a character on the page. And I would say there was a really interesting psychological experience. I narrated the audiobook and rereading it through in one sitting, narrating it. I was just like, "Ooh, this little girl went through a lot." Dr. McBride: It sounds like you just followed your gut and your instinct to put this on paper, and it sounds like also you're now getting a flood of readers reaching out to you. You're also getting new [00:46:00] siblings, even last night. Chrysta: I don't know if that's the book. I think that's just coincidence. I don't think... You know, I mean, hey listen, maybe you're one of my siblings listening to this podcast... Dr. McBride: Maybe so. Chrysta: ...right now and you should go take an ancestry.com test. Dr. McBride: I'm going to, for sure. I think you've helped other people feel seen just like you did when you read "The Glass Castle." Chrysta: I have had such a diverse spread of readers reach out, people who discovered they had also biological siblings because they were the product [00:46:30] of a sperm donor, you know, young women who had a parent with substance abuse issues, mothers who had substance abuse issues, who read the book and were like, "I wanna get help." There have been so many different people that had a gay parent in the '70s and '80s and have never met another person. A few months ago I was at a fancy dinner and I was sat next to someone who just this incredibly fancy person and they were like, "Oh, what do you do?" And I was gonna mention the book, you know, and [00:47:00] of course, I mentioned the book and it was before it came out and he's like, "What's it about?" And I said, "Well, you know, my father who's now, you know, homeless and struggles with schizophrenia was secretly one of the most prolific sperm donors in history. It turned out I had all these siblings and..." but I just decided to like put it out there. Dr. McBride: Love it. Chrysta: And I was absolutely sure that this person next to me was gonna be like, "Oh, I gotta scoot further away from this person." He's like, "Oh, I had a really bad drug problem for a really long time." And then the guy across to me is like, "My mother's schizophrenic." And I'm just like, "Oh, this is [00:47:30] such a better conversation than whatever small talk we possibly would've..." You know, it's like, at any level of society, everyone's got...every family has its complexity. And I think that if we were all just more open, of course, I'm not promoting oversharing, like, you know, you don't need to tell your boss your life story. Dr. McBride: I could not agree with you more. First of all, that's much more interesting than talking about the weather or sports at a dinner table where you don't know everybody. And then [00:48:00] secondly, when you are a leader like you have been, it gives other people permission to be honest about their own stories. And who knows, maybe that helps them in a small way at being more authentic in their regular lives. Chrysta: Yeah. I think that's the power of vulnerability and getting over shame, is, yeah, maybe you can, in that tiny way, help other people to do that as well. Dr. McBride: Chrysta, I'm so grateful that you joined me today. You have an incredible way of writing and relating to not only your family [00:48:30] but to your reader. And I just can't thank you enough for writing this book and for spending time with me today. Chrysta: Thank you so much for having me, really. It's lovely. Dr. McBride: Thank you all for listening to "Beyond the Prescription." Please don't forget to subscribe, like, download, and share the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you catch your podcasts. I'd be thrilled, if you like this episode, to rate and review it. And if you have a comment or [00:49:00] question, please drop us a line at info@lucymcbride.com. The views expressed on this show are entirely my own and do not constitute medical advice for individuals. That should be obtained from your personal physician. "Beyond the Prescription" is produced at Podville Media in Washington, D.C.  Get full access to Are You Okay? at lucymcbride.substack.com/subscribe

In Episode 131, Catherine (@gilmoreguide) and I share the best backlist books we read in 2022. We each share our top 5 backlist books from 2022, some underrated backlist gems, and our backlist reading stats. Catherine and I both had a successful year of backlist reading, despite both of us experiencing major life events. This post contains affiliate links through which I make a small commission when you make a purchase (at no cost to you!). Join our Patreon Community ($7/mo Superstars) to get Double Booked, a monthly podcast series where either Catherine of Gilmore Guide to Books or Susie from Novel Visits on alternate months) and I each share 2 backlist books we loved. Get more details about all the goodies available to all patrons (Stars and Superstars) and sign up here! Highlights Catherine's and Sarah's 2022 backlist reading stats. Sarah's backlist reading was more spread out during the year. Sarah and Catherine both had fairly successful backlist reading in 2022! How they incorporate backlist titles for the Double Booked episodes. Our Top 5 Backlist Books We Read in 2022 [6:14] Sarah The One by John Marrs | Amazon | Bookshop.org [9:11] We Are All Completely Beside Ourselves by Karen Joy Fowler | Amazon | Bookshop.org [19:19] Furia by Yamile Saied Méndez | Amazon | Bookshop.org [28:19] Greenwood by Michael Christie | Amazon | Bookshop.org [34:20] Anxiety: The Missing Stage of Grief by Claire Bidwell Smith | Amazon | Bookshop.org [42:26] Catherine The 25th Hour by David Benioff | Amazon | Bookshop.org [6:21] The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox by Maggie O'Farrell | Amazon | Bookshop.org [13:39]  The Invisible Kingdom by Meghan O'Rourke | Amazon | Bookshop.org [22:53] Indian Horse by Richard Wagamese | Amazon | Bookshop.org [30:28]  Champagne Supernovas by Maureen Callahan | Amazon | Bookshop.org [38:11]  Underrated Backlist Gems [46:08] Sarah The Family Fang by Kevin Wilson | Amazon | Bookshop.org [47:09]  My Eyes Are Up Here by Laura Zimmerman | Amazon | Bookshop.org [50:44] Catherine 10 Minutes 38 Seconds in This Strange World by Elif Shahak | Amazon | Bookshop.org [46:12] Song of a Captive Bird by Jasmin Darznik | Amazon | Bookshop.org [49:28] Other Books Mentioned City of Thieves by David Benioff [8:22] The Measure by Nikki Erlick [10:53] The Passengers by John Marrs [12:56] The Minders by John Marrs [12:59] The Marriage Act by John Marrs (May 2, 2023) [13:06] Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell [14:16] I am, I am, I am by Maggie O'Farrell [14:40] This Must Be the Place by Maggie O'Farrell [14:45] Uncanny Valley by Anna Wiener [22:38] Firekeeper's Daughter by Angeline Boulley [29:55] American Predator by Maureen Callahan [41:55]  The Island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak [46:17]  Now is Not the Time to Panic by Kevin Wilson [47:14] The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls [48:07] Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson [48:26] Other Links Elisabeth Kübler-Ross | Five Stages of Grief (the Kübler-Ross model) About Catherine Gilmore Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram Catherine started The Gilmore Guide to Books over 10 years ago after wrapping up a career as a corporate librarian. She loves books and reading (surprise!) and currently lives in Seattle, WA.

E16: Concluding our Father-Daughter series is a compelling memoir. Poverty reigns her childhood, but as she grows older, she is able to reflect on her unique relationship with her father. Learn about her physical and emotional scars in this episode and watch her rise above her circumstances to be a strong woman. Book versus movie article: https://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/glass-castle Thank you for your support and happy listening! For more content like this: visit www.kimpatton.com.

On this week's episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are revisiting the very first Top 10 episode we ever aired. We've grown a lot as podcasters since then and our tastes have changed some, so it was a fun trip down memory lane. We hope this episode stocks your TBRs with books that are ALL backlist now, and easy to grab from the library! As per usual, time-stamped show notes are below with references to every book and resource we mentioned in this episode. If you'd like to listen first and not spoil the surprise, don't scroll down!  We are now including transcripts of the episode (this link only works on the main site). The goal here is to increase accessibility for our fans! *Please note that all book titles linked below are Bookshop affiliate links. Your cost is the same, but a small portion of your purchase will come back to us to help offset the costs of the show. If you'd prefer to shop on Amazon, you can still do so here through our main storefront. Anything you buy there (even your laundry detergent, if you recently got obsessed with switching up your laundry game) kicks a small amount back to us. Thanks for your support!*   . . . . 3:10 - Currently Reading Patreon 4:12 - Deep Dive: Our Best Books of 2018 5:33 - The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell 7:03 - The Heart's Invisible Furies by John Boyne 8:56 - The Snow Child by Eowyn Ivey 9:39 - Essentialism by Greg McKeown 10:50 -  The Read-Aloud Family by Sarah MacKenzie 11:36 -  The Read-Aloud Revival Podcast 11:47 - CR Season 1: Episode 7 11:53 - American Marriage by Tayari Jones 13:02 - Braving the Wilderness by Brene Brown 14:04 - Educated by Tara Westover 14:58 - The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls 17:05 - Circe by Madeline Miller 18:02 - CR Season 1: Episode 10 18:52 - Tattoos on the Heart by Gregory Boyle 19:59 - Calypso by David Sedaris 21:26 - The War That Saved My Life by Kimberly Brubaker Bradley 21:31 - CR Season 1: Episode 3 22:04 - Thunderhead by Neal Shusterman 23:07 - The Word is Murder by Anthony Horowitz 24:20 - CR Season 1: Episode 18 24:22 - Where The Crawdads Sing by Delia Owens 26:11 - Nevermoor by Jessica Townsend 26:19 - Wundersmith by Jessica Townsend 29:04 - The Last Mrs. Parrish by Liv Constantine 31:15 - Behind Closed Doors by B.A. Paris 31:20 - The Woman in the Window by A.J. Finn 32:12 - Us Against You by Fredrik Backman 32:16 - Beartown by Fredrik Backman 32:24 - A Man Called Ove by Fredrik Backman 35:07 - Britt-Marie Was Here by Fredrik Backman 35:08 - My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She's Sorry by Fredrik Backman 40:58 - CR Season 1: Episode 17 Connect With Us: Meredith is @meredith.reads on Instagram Kaytee is @notesonbookmarks on Instagram Mindy is @gratefulforgrace on Instagram Mary is @maryreadsandsips on Instagram Roxanna is @roxannatheplanner on Instagram currentlyreadingpodcast.com @currentlyreadingpodcast on Instagram currentlyreadingpodcast@gmail.com Support us at patreon.com/currentlyreadingpodcast and www.zazzle.com/store/currentlyreading

This week Whitney and McKinsey discuss the beginning of Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Maas (Chapters 1-20). We chat about the pronunciation guide that we will continue to butcher, Celaena's time at Endovier, Duke Perrington being an ass from day one, our first glimpse of the Crown Prince (Dorian), Celaena's attempt of escape, Chaol forever and always taking his job so seriously, Celaena learns about the competition to become the King's Champion, Celaena taunting Chaol about how he must be noble, the history of Oakwald Forest and magic, the Glass Castle and Celaena's memory of seeing it for the first time, societal treatment of criminals, how odd it is that memories of Sam aren't present at the sight of Rifthold, ACOTAR vibes, a lovely description of the scents in Rifthold, Celaena pampered and introduced to Phillipa, Phillipa tells Celaena not to tell anyone else her real name, tension between Dorian and the king, the king warning Dorian about “creating illegitimate heirs,” Georgina spoiling Hollin-who is a monster for sure, brief glimpse of the castle library, Celaena gets dolled up to be petty and unexpectedly gets dragged by Chaol to meet the king and her competitors, Chaol slowly softening to Celaena, first impressions of the champions and competition outline from the king, our love of holiday and traditions SJM creates, Celaena becomes Lillian, Lady Kaltain Rompier, Chaol and Celaena training, Brullo and each champion's background, Celaena's arrogance could be her weakness, Princess Nehemiah and our instant love of her, the beginning of the mysterious murders inside the castle, Nox and Celaena friendship beginning, we find out Chaol's history, comparisons of how Chaol and Celaena were trained, our hate for Arobynn and our hope that he gets what he deserves, Dorian finds Celaena and Nehemia fighting with swords, how irritated we are with Celaena's desire to kiss Dorian, finally a mention of Sam, Celaena tells Chaol how irritated she is with her situation, how annoyed Kaltain is with Perrington, Dorian comes to visit Celaena's room unexpectedly, Celaena tells Dorian she won't be some idea of adventure for him, and Celaena speaks briefly about Sam to Dorian. IG/TikTok/Patreon: @dejalupodcast Email: dejalupodcast@gmail.com Music: https://www.purple-planet.com

Hello and welcome back! On today's episode, we are talking all about the Science of Reading. But before we get to that, we talk briefly about the “Queen of Halloween” contest, and Katie and Esther share their favorite books in honor of Author's Day, which was on November 1st.     Katie: Roald Dahl (She also likes the book, The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls)  Esther: EM Forster, who wrote A Room With a View    And we also have a contest winner to announce!  Congrats to Ryan for guessing our Mystery Woman, Ida B. Wells!    Now all about the Science of Reading.  Today our hosts are speaking with special guest, Penny Ezell. Penny Ezell is an accomplished educator with 23 years of experience who has devoted herself to improving literacy for ALL students. Penny is trained in Brainspring's Phonic First, Structures, and Level II training. She was a R.I.S.E. trainer for the state of Arkansas focusing on the Science of Reading and helped co-author Brainspring's Science of Reading training. She was also a local LETRS trainer in Arkansas. She is currently working as an independent literacy consultant with Empowering Writers and is a candidate to become a National Professional Learning Facilitator for LETRS.     After the interview, Katie, Esther, and Penny answer a voicemail question from one of our listeners.   Then Penny shared her favorite author; Andrea Beaty, who wrote Aaron Slater, Illustrator (The Questioneers).    We just want to say “thank you” to Penny Ezell for chatting with us today! Make sure to check out the links below for all the resources mentioned during this episode and follow us on all social media to stay up to date on all Brainspring news. See you next time!     RESOURCES  William Van Cleave Website: https://www.wvced.com/   Latin and Greek Roots: Teaching Vocabulary Using Hands-on Activities and Common Objects by Perry D. Stokes: https://www.amazon.com/Latin-Greek-Roots-Vocabulary-Hands/dp/141640502X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=latin+and+greek+roots+teaching+vocabulary&qid=1669415289&s=books&sprefix=latin+and+greek+roots%3A+tea%2Cstripbooks%2C142&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.08f69ac3-fd3d-4b88-bca2-8997e41410bb   Writing Matters - Developing Sentence Skills in Students of All Ages: https://www.wvced.com/product/writing-matters-developing-sentence-skills-in-students-of-all-ages/   Equipped for Reading Success A Comprehensive, Step-By-Step Program for Developing Phonemic Awareness and Fluent Word Recognition by David A. Kirkpatrick: https://www.amazon.com/Comprehensive-Developing-Awareness-Recognition-PlayStation-4/dp/0964690365   Aaron Slater, Illustrator (The Questioneers) by Andrea Beaty: https://www.amazon.com/Aaron-Slater-Illustrator-Questioneers-Andrea/dp/1419753967     BRAINSPRING RESOURCES  Prefixes and Suffixes: https://brainspring.com/brainspring-store/prefixes-and-suffixes/   More Prefixes and Suffixes: https://brainspring.com/brainspring-store/more-prefixes-and-suffixes/   PS: Prefixes, Suffixes, Roots: https://brainspring.com/brainspring-store/ps-prefixes-suffixes-roots-resource-of-lists-phrases-sentences-poems-and-stories/   PPS: Advanced Prefixes, Suffixes, Roots, and Connectives: https://brainspring.com/brainspring-store/all-products/pps-advanced-prefixes-suffixes-roots-connectives/   Greek and Latin Roots: https://brainspring.com/brainspring-store/greek-and-latin-roots/   More Greek and Latin Roots: https://brainspring.com/brainspring-store/more-greek-and-latin-roots/   Writing Matters: Developing Sentence Skills in Students of All Ages: https://www.wvced.com/product/writing-matters-developing-sentence-skills-in-students-of-all-ages/   Structures Courses: https://brainspring.com/structures-1/     Voicemail: www.speakpipe.com/ortongillinghampodcastvoicemail    Email: podcast@brainspring.com    Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/OrtonGillinghamTraining   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brainspringortongillingham/    Twitter: https://twitter.com/BrainspringOG    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcwtIFnom15wnpE2Rlkmoiyg0tgDXqQNE    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brainspring/   Linktree: https://linktr.ee/brainspringortongillingham    Website: https://brainspring.com       Hosts: Katie Hodgkins, Esther Moreau   Production Manager: Michael Flees   Soundboard: Brendan Kelly   Podcast Production/Marketing: Morgan MacKew   Marketing Intern: Elena Martin  

Marlena Fiol, PhD. is a globally recognized author, scholar, and speaker. She explores the depths of who we are and what is possible in our lives. Her significant body of publications on the topic, coupled with her own raw identity-changing experiences, makes her uniquely qualified to write about personal transformational change. She holds an MBA and a Ph.D. in Strategic Management and has taught in the faculties of New York University and the University of Colorado.  Marlena's mission is to share true stories of survival against all odds to inspire us to become the truest and most authentic versions of ourselves. In her interview, she shares her journey from an abusive upbringing in Paraguay to escape, love, and loss in the United States and finally on to forgiveness and reconciliation. Marlena was physically abused as a child, sexually abused as a teenager, disowned by her father, and banned from participating in her Mennonite church -- all before her 18th birthday. And that is only the beginning of her amazing story After being publicly humiliated in front of her entire close-knit Mennonite community, Marlena Fiol didn't know how she would recover.  Discover a story of healing and personal transformation. Marlena's childhood was full of contradictions. Her father was both a heroic doctor for people with leprosy and an abusive parent. Her Mennonite missionary community was both a devoted tribe and a controlling society. And Marlena longed to both be accepted in Paraguay and escape to somewhere new. In Nothing Bad Between Us, follow Marlena's journey as she takes control of her life and learns to be her authentic self, scars and imperfections included. Uncover inner peace―and inner strength.  Nothing Bad Between Us is a story of brokenness and eventual redemption that taps into our collective yearning for healing and forgiveness. As you read Marlena's story, you will: Learn how to forgive yourself and others without giving up your personal growth and self-confidence Discover that transformation and redemption often exist even in the most broken parts of who you are Find out how to stand in your power, knowing that vulnerability won't lead to your downfall, but increase, courage, connection, and authenticity Readers of memoirs about family, self-healing, and the strength of a woman like The Glass Castle, Love Warrior, and Leaving the Witness will be captivated by Nothing Bad Between Us.

On this episode of Match+Book, adult services librarian Paul Kibala shares some recommendations for those who enjoyed Educated by Tara Westover and some spooky reads in preparation for Halloween. Click here for all the links to formats available with your EBPL or LMxAC library card! https://ilove.ebpl.org/adults/news/matchbook-s3ep1-readalike-educated-and-spooky-favorites The Glass Castle : a memoir by Jeannette Walls The Liar's Club by Mary Karr Before We Were Yours by Lisa Wingate Edgar Allen Poe Home Before Dark by Riley Sager The October Country by Ray Bradbury

In Episode 125, Susie Boutry (@NovelVisits) and I are back for our 2nd annual Debuts Special. Today we're sharing our favorite debut novels from 2022 (so far)! Plus, we discuss our reading stats for debuts this year and we talk about some upcoming sophomore novels (and their debuts) that are on our radar. This post contains affiliate links, through which I make a small commission when you make a purchase (at no cost to you!). Highlights We discuss why debut books often feel more polished. A full breakdown of our 2022 debut-related stats. Debuts we love, divided into three categories: Favorite Debuts of 2022 (so far) Favorite Backlist Debuts Upcoming Sophomore Novels Favorite Debuts of 2022 (so far) [8:47] Sarah Never Simple by Liz Scheier | Amazon | Bookshop.org [9:57] More Than You'll Ever Know by Katie Gutierrez | Amazon | Bookshop.org [14:43] Olga Dies Dreaming by Xochitl Gonzalez | Amazon | Bookshop.org [21:14] The Violin Conspiracy by Brendan Slocumb | Amazon | Bookshop.org [26:52] Susie Groundskeeping by Lee Cole | Amazon | Bookshop.org [12:05] Memphis by Tara M. Stringfellow | Amazon | Bookshop.org [17:37] Nightcrawling by Leila Mottley | Amazon | Bookshop.org [23:57] We All Want Impossible Things by Catherine Newman (November 8) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [29:31] Favorite Backlist Debuts [33:18] Sarah Finding Freedom by Erin French | Amazon | Bookshop.org [33:21] The Age of Miracles by Karen Thompson Walker | Amazon | Bookshop.org [38:41] Susie A Place for Us by Fatima Farheen Mirza | Amazon | Bookshop.org [35:14] Good Morning, Midnight by Lily Brooks-Dalton | Amazon | Bookshop.org [43:57] Upcoming Sophomore Novels [44:30] Sarah Debut: Don't Know Tough by Eli Cranor | Amazon | Bookshop.org [44:44] Upcoming: Ozark Dogs by Eli Cranor (April 4, 2023) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [44:59] Debut: His Only Wife by Peace Adzo Medie | Amazon | Bookshop.org [48:46] Upcoming: Nightbloom by Peace Adzo Medie (June 13, 2023) | Amazon [49:05] Susie Debut: Tuesday Nights in 1980 by Molly Prentiss | Amazon | Bookshop.org [46:32] Upcoming: Old Flame by Molly Prentiss (April 11, 2023) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [46:54] Debut: The Push by Ashley Audrain | Amazon | Bookshop.org [50:40] Upcoming: The Whispers by Ashley Audrain (July 2023) [50:54] Other Books Mentioned Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus [9:24] The Measure by Nikki Erlick [9:35] Corrections in Ink by Keri Blakinger [9:39] Cover Story by Susan Rigetti [9:50] Nowhere Girl by Cheryl Diamond [10:39] The Glass Castle by Jeannette Wells [10:43] Inheritance by Dani Shapiro [10:45] Writers & Lovers by Lily King [13:12] Unlikely Animals by Annie Hartnett [15:11] Fates and Furies by Lauren Groff [37:32] The One by John Marrs [39:56] The Dreamers by Karen Thompson Walker [40:32] Station Eleven by Emily St. John Mandel [43:29] The Light Pirate by Lily Brooks-Dalton (December 6) [43:58] Bull Mountain by Brian Panowich [45:56] When I Ran Away by Ilona Bannister [48:22] About Susie Boutry Blog | Instagram Susie has loved reading for as long as she can remember. Some of her fondest childhood memories involve long afternoons at the library and then reading late into the night. More than ten years ago, she began journaling about the books she read and turned that passion into writing about books. Her first forays were as a guest reviewer on a friend's blog, but she soon realized she wanted to be reviewing and talking about books on a blog of her own. From there, Novel Visits was born. That was in 2016 and, though the learning curve was steep, she loves being a part of the book community. Novel Visits focuses on new novel reviews (print and audio), previews of upcoming releases, and musings on all things bookish.

Andy and Alyssa read Goosebumps Series 2000 #17: The Werewolf in the Living Room. Along they way, they discuss Fritz Haarmann; shark tooth necklaces; Mario jokes; werewolf teeth; bifurcated story form; The Bailey School Kids; human trafficking; merchandizing; raisin squares; Teddy Roosevelt; Sylvia Likens; the layered look; following someone who doesn't know what they're doing; Moby Dick; The Glass Castle; erratic parents; Russian Doll; Home Improvement; The Host; Squid Game; Homer Simpson; The People Under the Stairs; imprisonment horror; The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo; The Girl in the Box; being repulsed by your own hunger; Raw; Uzumaki; dangerous woods; Antichrist; the difference between good movies and movies you like; the Pied Piper of Hamlin; bad sheriffs; Texas Chainsaw Massacre; the sheriff of Nottingham; Desperation; amulets; Pirates of the Caribbean; The Hunchback of Notre Dame; kidnapping; Mommy is a Murderer; Gold Fame Citrus; Big Daddy; Tucker and Dale v. Evil; Leviathan; Teen Wolf; The Lost World; surprise second monsters; Lake Placid; Scream; & eastern Europe in the Gooseverse. // Music by Haunted Corpse // Follow @saypodanddie on Twitter and Instagram, and get in touch at saypodanddie@gmail.com

Soooo over covid; let's talk about Jeannette Walls's memoir The Glass Castle!