Podcasts about this is the gospel

On Resurrection Sunday, Pastor Reggie looks at the events experienced by Jesus' disciple Peter during His arrest and return. This week marks the end of our series This Is The Gospel.Sermon Discussion Guide: https://kingspark.org/guide/apr2025

Faith is the evidence. Join us as we conclude our series THIS IS THE GOSPEL. Pastor John speaks through the importance of having faith and how faith helps spread the gospel.

We continue our series, THIS IS THE GOSPEL, as Pastor John speaks through how to share our royal announcement. We also had the honor of hearing from Jesse Patrick on his experience with YWAM and sharing the gospel both abroad and at home.

Join us as we continue our series THIS IS THE GOSPEL. This week, Pastor John dives into the significance of creating holy habits and how to share the gospel within your own household.

This Is The Gospel of Grace and Faith

Listen along to the first week of our THIS IS THE GOSPEL series as Pastor John speaks on what the gospel of the kingdom is and the importance of living out the good news

Elevation Rhythm isn't just creating new sounds, they're sharing the gospel with the next generation. Josh Holiday is at the forefront as the producer of their new record "This Is The Gospel". He shares his approach to producing and what it looked like for this project to come about. Jason and Kristina talk about travels, leading in circus tents, and being recognized. Start your free 21-day trial at worshipartistry.com. Follow Worship Artistry, Jason Houtsma, and Kristina Kislyanka on Instagram! For business inquiries or public relations reach us at marketing@worshipartistry.com.

Elevation Rhythm isn't just creating new sounds, they're sharing the gospel with the next generation. Josh Holiday is at the forefront as the producer of their new record "This Is The Gospel". He shares his approach to producing and what it looked like for this project to come about. Jason and Kristina talk about travels, leading in circus tents, and being recognized. Start your free 21-day trial at worshipartistry.com. Follow Worship Artistry, Jason Houtsma, and Kristina Kislyanka on Instagram! For business inquiries or public relations reach us at marketing@worshipartistry.com.

Every story has a storm, and every storm has a purpose. In “The Storm Has Its Purpose,” Pastor Rich Wilkerson reminds us to take courage — because God is in control. If you've just made a decision for Christ, please respond HERE: http://ele.vc/tIepfr To support this ministry and help us continue to reach people all around the world click here: http://www.elevationchurch.org/giving/ Scripture References: Mark 6, verses 45-56 Isaiah 43, verse 2 Matthew 14, verses 32-33 Chapters: 0:00 - Are You Excited For Elevation Nights? 2:54 - Introduction 6:34 - Mark 6 8:44 - The Storm Has Its Purpose 13:03 - You've Got To Go Through 15:38 - Are You Really In A Storm? 18:17 - Storms Make You Realize You're Not In Control 26:20 - Storms Give Way To New Revelations 31:54 - Our Faith Suffers When We Forget 34:22 - How Devastation Leads To Innovation 37:15 - Storms Create The Perfect Stage For An Audacious Response 43:31 - Why'd Peter Leave THAT Out? 46:06 - Keep Faithfully Following Jesus 48:27 - God, Give Me A Sign 52:19 - Don't Give Up The SHIP 55:54 - God Is Not Against You 58:27 - This Is The Gospel

In this episode of The Warrior Podcast, I speak with John LaGrange, director of This Is The Gospel, a ministry with the focus of sharing and equipping people to share the Gospel, and providing resources for making disciples all over the world. During our conversation, John walks us through his childhood and young adult years and shares the story of how God finally got his attention. We also talk about discipling men in today's culture, how churches are alienating men, and so much more. Let's go! Join The Warriors' Guild Text warrior to 828-307-0007 to join The Warriors' Guild. The Warriors' Guild is the official home for listeners of The Warrior Podcast and men who want to strive to be the husbands, fathers, leaders, or simply just the men God wants us to be. Episode notes and links HERE Donate to support our mission of helping men to become the husbands, fathers, and men that God created us to be.

In honor of Women's History month, we wanted to do something new and share one of our favorite podcasts with you. It's called Latter-day Saint Women, and in this episode, the Relief Society General Presidency has an important conversation with a few of their friends: a foster mom who's worried about a little boy she's come to love; a 22-year-old who's angry and confused when she can't serve a mission; and a recent convert whose parents are Mexican immigrants, so she wonders whether she will fit in. Through their discussion we come to see one of the most beautiful parts of Relief Society—we all belong.   Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: Even though she's up against a language barrier, Bonnie takes matters into her own hands after noticing the refugee women she lives among on a military base don't have what they need; All of Ben's resources are expended when he's put in charge of providing meals for thousands of refugees, and he hits a breaking point. So he makes one phone call that teaches him just what—and who—it takes to be Christ's hands while serving His children. See show notes and full episode transcript at LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel or find us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: Frances struggles in her role as a mom of three kids but is offered a helping hand right when she both needs it most and it's the most difficult to accept; Phyllis has always been eager to accept callings, but in her grief and loneliness after her husband passes away she feels like letting someone else step up to the plate—that is, until she's reminded of how service can deeply affect the lives of those who give. Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: A bucket list adventure through the Uinta Mountains in Utah turns into a night through a dreaded fire swamp as unexpected challenges plague Heather and her friend; Aliah experiences a dream pregnancy until she is rushed to the hospital and doctors scramble to save her and her baby. Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When Alexis, a teenager battling cancer, learns that a new boy named Ricky is in the same unit of the hospital as her, she expects him to be a sweet child like the other patients she's befriended. To her surprise, however, Ricky is a tall, handsome teen. A friendship develops between the two amidst their chemo treatments and years of relapses and recoveries. Their bond eventually leads to marriage and a life of supporting and loving each other even with the myriad of unknowns they face with their health, each learning all the forms true Christlike love can take. See show notes and full episode transcript at LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel or find us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Claudia faces one of the darkest nights of her life—both literally and figuratively—when she is taken hostage and held for ransom. Her only comfort comes in the form of a radiant sign from God that He loves her and is aware of her situation. When she is finally let go, she embarks on a journey to seek for more light and develops a relationship with God that she never would have imagined was possible. See show notes and full episode transcript at LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel or find us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: Adam's mission is more overwhelming than he expected, leading him to doubt whether he's in the right place when suddenly a companion's photo puts everything into focus; LeAnn finds a perfectly placed dad joke in her scriptures at just the right moment; Becky's hopes to adopt are finally fulfilled, but she faces heartache in her relationship with her child until an unexpected dinner guest gives her just the answer she needs. See show notes and full episode transcript at LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel or find us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

With family traditions, festivities, and gifts galore, the holidays can be a really exciting, happy time. But not everyone always feels that way. For Amber, the first Christmas after her divorce wasn't coming together for her as she'd hoped. As a mom of young two boys, Amber felt alone with the weight of the world on her shoulders as the early Christmas hours began to tick by. That is, until she did something she'd never done before and offered up a desperate prayer for peace. Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: KaRyn sits down with co-producers Erika and Katie as they each tell a story of their own. Erika struggles to find the confidence and the right words to share her beliefs with a chatty stranger on a flight; Katie decides to train for a marathon to prove that her diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis won't limit her life; KaRyn's plans to show a family from Uganda all about Pioneer Day goes awry in every possible way, until a surprise encounter reminds KaRyn of who's really making the plans. Click here to take our survey!  Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: Julie, Whitney, & Brooke each have a story to tell about the struggle and surprises of a life lived in pursuit of discipleship, but they can't tell their story without one another and they can't tell their story without the extraordinary life of Jonah, the little boy who brought them all together.  Get more info and shownotes at LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel or find us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast TRANSCRIPT KaRyn  0:03   Welcome to "This Is the Gospel," an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay.  I kind of feel like today's theme doesn't need much of an introduction at all. So I'm going to keep this short and sweet. Because if there is one principle of the gospel that we all understand just a little bit better after a full year of social and physical distance, it's the power and purpose of human connection and just how inextricable that connection is, to our spiritual practice. And have we got a story about connection for you.  Actually, it's one big story with two little stories in the middle. And it's kind of hard to explain, but I think it's going to become clear soon enough. First, we'll start with our storyteller Julie, then you're going to hear from Whitney, and then Julie again, and then Brooke, and then back to Julie, and then Brooke and then Julie.  And just a quick note for sensitive listeners that this story does involve some trauma related to loss. Here's Julie: Julie  1:07   Our first son Jonah came into the world 10 days late. It was my first baby and I had all these ideals about what his birth would be like, and my whole pregnancy had been so good, and I had felt so healthy and strong. And all of our ultrasounds that we had were fine. We never had any indication that there would be any problem or any challenges for our baby.  It was just this beautiful experience to be pregnant and to feel him move inside me. I was sure that I was just gonna let him come on his own terms. And 10 days after his due date, my doctor said, "No, we need to induce you."  That day was so exciting. The birth was good, but when he was finally born, the doctor put him up on my belly. And when I first looked at him, I could tell right away that something wasn't quite right. And I didn't get very much time with them because they whisked him off my belly. And all of a sudden there was this flurry of activity around us and the respiratory therapists came in and they took Jonah and kind of moved him away from me. And I remember my mom coming over and comforting me and I just didn't even know what was happening.  I just said remembered seeing his little ears. They looked almost like little flower petals that hadn't quite opened all the way. My husband Jordan was over by the nurses and he was kind of watching what was going on, and he came over to me and I remember him saying, "Julie, he has the most beautiful lips." And I think he was in this moment of trying to process, you know, what we were experiencing. But it turned out that he had a lot of problems with his facial structures. He had a cleft palate, his jaw was underdeveloped, his cheekbones were underdeveloped, and his ears were not fully open, like they had just started to develop and stopped midway through that development.  We didn't know what caused it or whether he'd be able to see or whether he'd be able to hear. We didn't know if he would have any kind of mental delays, but we loved him so instantly. And it wasn't until the next morning after a night of changing diapers and trying to figure out how to feed him that our doctor came in and told us what his diagnosis was. He told us about Treacher Collins syndrome, which is a syndrome that affects the facial structures and development of the face. And the other thing the doctor told me is, "I'm almost 100% sure that you are the carrier of this genetic disorder."  It was good to know what he had because we knew that he would be able to see and he wouldn't be able to hear with the help of a hearing aid, we knew that he wouldn't have any kind of developmental challenges. But I had this place in my heart that just hurt so bad because I knew that I had carried this, you know, thing that was inside me that had . . . that wasn't my fault. But I felt the strange responsibility for being the carrier of that gene. And almost the immediate realization too, that any children that we tried to have in the future would have a 50% chance of having the same experience that our sweet Jonah was having.  We knew that he was going to face a lifetime of surgeries to correct some of those things that he had to deal with, and it was all so overwhelming. And I tried to put on a brave face and I tried to be really present and to be optimistic. But as soon as I could get up and I got into the shower–that's where I just fell apart. I just prayed that Heavenly Father would help me to know how to move forward. And the distinct impression that I received was that Jonah deserved to have a joyful mom. And that there was a lot that we didn't know, and there was a lot that I couldn't control. But I could control how I approach the experience of being this mom. And so that's what I tried to do. After a while, we just didn't think about his syndrome very much. We were just normal parents, and just raising this little boy and that was beautiful. People just were attracted to him and they wanted to know about him. And my husband and I are, well, especially my husband, we're kind of private, you know, we're not the kind that really reach out, but with Jonah, people just came to us. And it was a heart opening experience to watch how people just loved him right away.  But there was also a realization that people could be cruel. As he got older, we had more experiences of people stopping and staring or children saying things that were hard, and he was young enough, that didn't really affect him, but you know, we wondered how that would affect him as he got older. That was a challenge.  When Jonah was 14 months old, my friend had invited us over, she wanted to can spaghetti sauce, and our kids would play together while we made the spaghetti sauce. That morning, I had felt this hesitation that I couldn't put my finger on, but for some reason, I just didn't really want to go. And she was my dear friend and I love spending time with her and I couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to get out of the house and go there.  But we went, and Jonah played with her kids and we made our spaghetti sauce. After a couple hours, she needed to go and pick up her oldest daughter. And I said, "Okay, that's fine. I'll watch the kids." And we were in the backyard playing. And almost immediately after she walked out the door, the kids had been eating snacks and Jonah ate a fruit snack.  I could tell right away that something was wrong. I could see it in his eyes that he couldn't get any air. And I knew that he was choking. And I was holding my friend's new baby and I have these children around me and I looked around and there was a blanket on the ground. So I put the baby down and I scooped Jonah up and I tried to do the Heimlich maneuver and tried to you know, pound this fruit snack out. It wasn't working and I could feel his body just go limp in my arms.  You know, I started to panic. And I grabbed my phone and I grabbed him and I knew I just went to the front of the house because I thought if I can get out there someone can help me. And I left all these kids in this baby in the backyard and ran to the front of the house and laid him out on the driveway and called 911.  They did their best to help me and I was doing everything I knew how to do to help him. You know, I don't think it was very long before the ambulance got there. But just as I looked at him, I had the strongest confirmation I think I've ever had in my life, and the confirmation was that he was not he was not going to make it.  My friend came around, you know, the corner to see these ambulances and fire truck at her house and she ran out and she didn't know who was in trouble, you know. And when she saw that it was Jonah. She said, you know, "This is the time to have faith and this is the time to be strong." And I said, "He's not going to make it."  Within a matter of 30 minutes I'd gone from being the mom of this vibrant, lovely boy to holding him in my arms and his spirit was so clearly gone. That was the most devastating moment of my life.  And I'll never forget leaving the hospital that day with my husband, Jordan. And we got into his truck and we didn't have children with us, you know. And it was so surreal and strange. And we just drove home together. And then just crawled into bed and just cried all night. We just cried all night.  And then the next day people started showing up at our door. They came until . . . you know we went to bed that night, they just kept showing up. We just all grieved together as a community and as a family and this just tragic loss that we had all experienced.  The weeks and months that followed Jonah's death were just surreal. And at night, when I would try and fall asleep, I would see in my mind the experience of losing Jonah, over and over again. And I prayed for Heavenly Father to help me to be able to . . . to let that go and to be able to sleep. And I had a strong impression that I needed to write it down. And so I started by writing everything I could think of in my journal, and I wrote it down. And that night, I slept. And then I had the impression that I needed to write it in a more public way. And that felt really scary, but I decided, since I had this time, that I would begin sharing my experience and start a blog. I remember pressing, publish, and just feeling sick inside, like just feeling like I put my whole heart and soul out into the world, and not knowing how people would receive it. But that blog, and that ability to write became so therapeutic to me.  Another thing that was therapeutic for me, at that time was gardening. And I decided that I needed to put a garden in a new place in our yard, and I went out one day, and I just started tearing out the grass. It was this hard, physical work. That was just like, I was channeling all my anger and my rage into pulling out this grass. I was so angry and so upset. And I wasn't angry at God, but I just had this anger in me from this experience. And so I just began to pull out this grass. And I was just out there by myself and I was quiet.  I just remember having this feeling settle on me. It wasn't a vision, it wasn't a dream, it was just this quiet impression of two little souls that were going to come to our family. Part of me thought, oh, I'm just, you know, dreaming about what I want, then wondered if it was a real feeling. But it was the kind of feeling that just stays with you. And it just kind of sunk into my heart.  When Jonah died, Jordan and I had this immediate realization that if we wanted to have more kids, we had to decide how we were going to move forward and that felt so overwhelming, because we had just experienced this incredible loss that was tied to Jonah's genetic condition. He had a small airway, and that's one of the contributing factors to why he choked on that fruit snack. And so the idea of just having another baby was terrifying.  So we started talking about it and trying to figure out how we could possibly move forward. We knew that there was a possibility that we could do genetic testing, to help us to make sure that we had healthy embryos, and that we wouldn't pass on this genetic disorder. And I felt this real hesitation in that space when thinking about that possibility.  Because part of me wondered if I was somehow rejecting Jonah and the beauty and light that he brought into our home if I chose not to have another baby like him. And if I chose to use science to select out the healthiest embryos, if I'd somehow be denying myself the experience that I just had, that was so powerful–being his mother. And that was really hard for me to wrestle with.  I have always been the kind of person–I want to do what's right, and I want to do what God wants me to do. And I want to be in tune with the Spirit. And I just wondered if somehow I was leaving God out of the equation. There was part of me that felt like if I had real faith, then I would just roll the dice and let God decide, right? That somehow if I were truly faithful, that we would just move forward without a question.  And luckily, my husband didn't feel that way. He felt that it was okay to move forward with genetic testing. That would still require a lot of our faith. And so we moved forward with that. It took a full year for an embryo transfer and we had one healthy embryo that we could work with.  And so all of our hopes were wrapped up in this one moment. And when it came time to do the transfer, my doctors cancelled it. They discovered that I had scar tissue from my first pregnancy, and that it probably wouldn't work. And so after this full year of waiting and hoping we were faced with this new challenge. During this time, I decided that I needed to get a job to fill my time. And I was lucky enough to get a job at the Springville Museum of Art, which was great. And I had a colleague there who was working at the BYU Museum of Art. And they were getting ready for the Carl Bloch exhibit that was coming up.  Carl Bloch is really well known artist in LDS culture, maybe not by his name, but almost everyone would recognize his paintings. They are beautiful paintings of the Savior and His life. And the BYU Museum of Art was in the process of putting together this incredible exhibit of his works. But they wanted to have a spiritual component that connected to real people in their lives.  And my friend Ashley, who was working there asked me to share my experience of losing Jonah, in relation to one of Carl Bloch's, beautiful paintings, "Christ the Consolator," and I was really hesitant to do it, because I don't like being on video. And I knew it would be seen by a lot of people, but I knew from my experience, writing, that the experience I had of losing Jonah was really a powerful story for other people. that I got so much feedback from people about how it changed their hearts, or changed the way that they mothered their children or brought them closer to the Savior, that I moved past my hesitations and decided to go for it. Whitney  17:07   My husband and I were encouraged by lots of family and friends to go to the BYU art museum to see the Carl Bloch exhibit. So on a Saturday, we went for a little day date. And I was told by my mom, "Make sure you get the iPad version of the tour." So I got the iPad and started to walk around the gallery. And I wasn't as familiar with Carl Bloch before going to the museum.  So I walked in, and I just was like, "Oh my goodness, I know that painting, I know that painting." I didn't realize the Carl Bloch had done so many paintings of Christ. I just was blown away how much beautiful artwork Carl Bloch had done. And then as I kept going around the museum, I turned the corner and walked over to a big painting, a very large size painting of Christ teaching.  And I can't remember the details of it, but I very specifically remember there was an image of a little boy in the painting. And this little boy in the painting, was very intently listening to Jesus. There were other people in the painting, who would turn their heads, were scoffing, not paying attention, but this little boy was so significant to me because he was peacefully listening and looking at Jesus Christ.  So as I'm looking at this painting, I looked on the iPad, and noticed there's a button that you can push to have somebody tell you a story about this painting. So then I clicked on that button to hear a testimony of a woman. And she immediately started to tell some things that were happened in her life. She talked about a baby that was born to her and her husband, that didn't look like every other baby you see.  And as she started to describe this baby, my heart just stopped. I didn't have to see a picture of him, but I knew the second she described it. The way she described his eyes slanting downward, and his little chin and his tiny ears, and his missing of cheekbones, and the jaw, I immediately knew she was describing my son, who was born a month earlier.  There's only one out of every 50,000 births that these babies come into this form. And I knew immediately she was describing Treacher Collins syndrome that her little boy had. And so I kept listening and I actually listened to it twice because my heart was just so moved as I heard her journey of not only having a baby who wasn't a baby you anticipate, but then her experience of losing this baby and my heart just broke for her. And my heart was just in pain and suffering as she described this experience, but then listening to her to she described how much she was able to do it because of Jesus Christ.  And it was a very weird, surreal moment to be in so much pain for somebody, but also feel so much joy. Such anguish and peace at the same time. In that moment, in this large gallery, I completely felt and knew that I wasn't alone, and that God knew me. He knew my son. He knew this woman and He knew her son. And people will say, "Wow, what a coincidence." But to me, it was a knowledge that God knew of my situation. And he had a one of his children–one of my sisters–say, "I know what you're feeling. I know what you're experiencing."  I had this eternal connection with this woman. For the first time since my son was born, I felt like somebody understood. After leaving the museum, I became obsessed. And I know that sounds scary, but I became obsessed with trying to find this woman. So I got on the internet, like all stalkers do, and I started Google searching everything I could find. And I searched and searched, I looked, I knew I knew her picture. I didn't know her full name, I just knew her picture.  So I would Google, "Little boy dies choking on fruit snack," I googled, "Treacher Collins syndrome boy." I googled as many things I could find. And then I clicked on images one day, and I saw her picture and I knew that was her. So I clicked on that link, and it took me to her blog. And then I spent the next three days just reading every word of that blog.  And I just . . . my heart became even more endeared to her. Reading the way she beautifully was explaining her circumstances and situation life. It was like I was reading scripture, it was so holy to me to hear how she explained her trials and her good times, and her hard times.  I knew I needed to make contact with her. I knew I needed to connect with her in person. So I did what the best thing I feel like I could do, and I started to write a letter to her. I wrote a letter just thanking her for the peace she brought into my life, the answers that she brought to my life, the realization that God was aware of me. I remember thinking, she's gonna think I'm crazy. This random person, bearing her testimony, having a very spiritual experience, because of her situation, that was a hard situation, she's gonna be like, "This woman is crazy."  Even my husband was like, "Mmm... Whitney this might be a little bit out there for you." But I felt so prompted to write the letter. So that's why I had to do it. I needed to connect with her and let her know that her story changed my life.  But then I didn't know where she lived! So I started to stalk her again, and I googled, as much as I could to find out, and I found an address. I was a little nervous to send it, but then I kind of in the back of my mind said, "But, you know what? She probably might not even get it." So I sent a letter. And to be honest, after sending it, I kind of forgot about her. Like, it kind of left my mind and left my heart. And I kind of stopped being so obsessed.  And so I thought, "Okay, that's what I needed to do. I just needed to send that letter and I would move on." Even if I never heard back from her. That experience in the museum was a pivotal point for the rest of the journey of my life on this earth. Because it was such a defining moment where I knew without a shadow of a doubt that God knew me. He was aware of me. That He knew the prayers I've been praying the last month. He knew the heartache I was . . . the fears I was having about the future of my son. And in that moment, I can still see where I'm standing when I was looking at that exhibit and feeling as if in a huge museum–I was the only one in the room. And God was personally saying, "Whitney, I hear you. I'm aware of you. And I see you." Julie  24:14   As a mom, I'm constantly telling my children, "Go help your brother and sister do this." "Go help your brother do that." And I truly believe that Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are doing that constantly. That they are reaching out to us as their children and saying, "Go help your brother, go help your sister." Because we are all connected. We are all an eternal family and we are all God's children, and our purpose on this earth is to get everyone to come back to Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.  Whitney  24:43   So let's say you get a prompting to send a text message or to go visit somebody or to be even maybe write a letter to somebody like I did, my advice would be just do it. Act on that prompting. Write that letter. Send that text message. Go visit somebody. Because Heavenly Father is inspiring you for a reason. Julie  25:11   We were finally ready to do our first embryo transfer. Everything seemed like it was going to work. And the problems that I had had seem to be fixed. They transferred one healthy embryo that we had, and I miscarried almost immediately. It was so devastating. We decided that we couldn't do the genetic testing again. It was just too many variables, too many questions about why I had miscarried.  And so we decided to try an egg donor. And once again, all of the ethical and moral questions and religious questions came up with this choice and not knowing if we were doing the right thing, or if we should do something different. But we felt okay moving forward. And we chose an egg donor.  Around this time, my sister, Brooke, offered to be an egg donor for us. I didn't even know that that was the possibility. I didn't know how that would be. But I did know what it was like to go through an in vitro cycle, and all of the shots and all the hormones, the doctor's appointments that were associated with it, I just felt like it was too much to ask my sister, so we decided to move forward in a different direction.  We were able to get 12 healthy embryos. And when you're doing fertility stuff, they give you constant updates. So they'll call you after three days and say "This many have developed." And then they'll call you in two more days and they'll say, you know, "Five more are looking good." And so you're just waiting for these phone calls and hoping that things go well. The first call we got was good. They said, "We have 12 and they're developing." And the next call we got was not as good. And they said, "Well, now we only have six, but they're still developing." And then the final call, we got said that none of them, they all just stopped developing.  Our fertility clinic said they had never had that happen before. After the anonymous egg donor embryos didn't work out for us, I felt really strongly that we could move forward with Brooke, my sister, and the offer that she had made to let us use her eggs. My sister is so generous, she always has been and she's so willing to guide me and direct me and help me in every way that she can. And it just felt like, "Of course. This is what we're gonna do." And I don't know why it had been so hard before them because at that moment, it seemed to make the most sense of anything in the world, that these embryos would still be connected to my family through her, you know. And they would still have a connection to my parents and to my grandparents. And that just felt like such a gift that I hadn't even realized that I wanted. Brooke  28:26   Julie and I were just typical siblings. As we grew older–we were three years apart–as we grew older, I think our connection just grew apart as well. We were in different places of our life in different stages. I got married really early, I had my first baby really young. So by the time Julie got married, I had five kids.  My youngest was really close with Jonah, when he was about a year old, I had decided to go back to school and I was working a couple days a week and I was going to school a few times a week. And so Julie and Jonah would go pick up Lindsay from school every day. She just have the sweetest little relationship with him, she just loved him so much.  The day he died I was at the preschool that my family owned, and I got a phone call from Julie's friend saying that I needed to call my mom and have her go to the hospital. And I thought well, you know, I had taken kids to the hospital for stitches and stuff like that. and I think in my deep in my heart, that's what I wanted it to be. But I knew from her voice that that's not what it was. And I said "Okay, I'll call her. Is he going to be okay?" And she said, "No, I don't think so." And I remember the world just going fuzzy. I sat there for a long time trying to think about what to do. I didn't want to be at work. I needed to be there. So as I was driving to the hospital, I called my husband and asked him if he would go pick up the kids from school. So I got to the hospital and I was sitting in the parking lot, and I got a phone call from my mom saying that Jonah had died. And I really don't remember how I got to the doors of the hospital. I didn't do it well, because at some point, a nurse came out of the hospital and walked me in. I just remember her arms around me. And she asked me if I was his aunt, and I told her I was. And she walked me in.  I walked in there and I saw Julie holding Jonah, Jordan sitting next to her. And my heart just shattered. It wasn't very long after that, well, maybe about an hour after that. The same nurse came back in and told me that my kids were at the hospital. I walked into this little side room that they had outside the emergency room and I just collapsed. All five kids came running to me and put my arms around them and told them what had happened. And we just grieved. We just wept.  I did not think that I could inflict another heartache on my kids. Two weeks before, I had asked my husband to move out, my kids were really suffering. And I was already foggy, I was already so confused about what was right and what was wrong. But I also knew that I needed to know what the right thing was to do for my children, for my family, how we were going to move through this grief and this heartache.  So I said goodbye to my kids, they went back with their dad. And I walked out to my car and I sat down in my car. My prayers to God at that point were like David in Psalms. You know, like, angry and sad and hopeful . . . and all of those things at the same time. And I sat in the car and I just cried to the heavens, "You have to tell me what to do today. Because I cannot break the hearts of my children anymore that they're broken."  And I started driving, the same prayer just going over and over and over in my head. And by that night, I knew that my marriage was over. It was a really, really, really dark and sorrowful night. And that night, my kids, all five of them climbed into bed with me and I remember us falling asleep to me singing or humming "Abide with me tis eventide." Cause my whole family, my children, myself, my sister, her husband, my parents, we were all slipping into the darkest dark. We spend a lot of time crying.  Julie took care of me. I remember just being awed by her. And how she just in her profound grief took care of me, took care of my children. And sometimes I felt guilty about it because I just I didn't know if I even had the emotional capacity to be able to do for her what she was doing for me.  My darkest dark lasted about two years and it was really, you know, we sometimes it felt black. But I met a man at the end, as I was nearing the end of that and coming through and healing, I met a man that I really loved and who really loved to me and we decided to start our lives together and bring our families together.  At the same time, Julie was still wandering through that dark, dark. And as I healed, I was even more aware I think of the pain and grief she was experiencing.  I started to have dreams that I had something of my sisters that I . . . but I didn't ever know what it was or how to give it to her. I just knew that I had something that I needed to give to her. I would have them pretty regularly. And I'm not a dreamer. Like I don't, I don't get answers to prayer and dreams. I don't . . . my dreams are usually just super weird. But these felt these felt like there was something there that I was supposed to be paying attention to. And I remember I would wake up and I would just lay in bed and think like, what, what is it? What is it? For a long time, I thought it was just grief, I thought that it was . . . I was supposed to be attending to her grief.  At this point, Julie had gone through a miscarriage and a failed IVF. And my mom came to visit and she was out for a couple of weeks and we were driving her back to the airport. And she said, "Julie and Jordan are thinking about using donated eggs." And it was like just this complete knowing. It was a knowing. That's the only way I can describe it. All of a sudden, I knew exactly what those dreams had meant. I knew exactly what I was meant to do.  And I just said, "Well why . . . why not mine?" Like why . . . why are we not doing this? And from there on it was that was just what was meant to happen. I offered Julie, I told her that I would do this for her. And I remember she she was very thoughtful about it. And she said, she said no. I didn't really feel discouraged. I remember thinking that it was a big thing. And that it was something that doesn't happen very often, at least in our experience and known world.  And so I just told her, it's an open offer, if you change your mind, I will do this for you. I don't remember ever thinking it wasn't going to happen. I just knew that she needed time to really think about it and decide if that was okay. And then she came to me and said, "I'm ready. Let's do this." I remember feeling really excited.  I don't know anybody that is supposed to be a mother more than Julie. And watching her go through all those years of sorrow and heartache and loss . . . I was just so happy to be able to help her be a mother. So I was older, I was 35, had to go through a bunch of tests to make sure that I was, it was even a viable option. I was. So we went through the process. And one of the things that we had to do is speak with a psychologist. And I had to be there, my husband had to be there, Julie had to be there and her husband had to be there.  And the feminist in me it really like pushed against that. I was so like . . . why? Why? Why does my husband have to be there? Why did he have to give me permission to do this? I think part of it too, was pushing back against a former life I had had and I wanted to make these decisions.  In the end, I was so glad that he was there because I was able to see just how much healing had happened in my life. The psychologist wanted to know how I would feel about to raising these babies, if I would be okay with that. And I was stunned because they were never mine. They were always meant to be Julie's. Like my dreams had told me from the very beginning, I had something that was hers. And I was just holding on to them until they were ready, until everybody was ready.  My husband was asked how he felt about it. And I remember him saying that he was going to completely support whatever I needed to do and however I needed to do it. And that was such a departure from my former life. Which is why I was so glad he was there because it was just another reminder of the grace of God, another reminder of healing.  There is a quote by Neal A. Maxwell and I'm just going to paraphrase it because I don't remember it completely, but since the moment I heard it, it has always stuck with me. And he talks about how the Star of Bethlehem was placed in orbit millennia before Christ was born, but it was there so that it could shine on that night, it could lead people to Christ.  And I've thought about that a lot, and how that light, that star shone on that night in the darkest dark. And I think about how there are moments in time that are placed in the orbit of our life, that will shine on our darkest darks. We don't know when and we don't even know what they are, but they're there. And they will come. And we will encounter God in those moments. Julie  40:46   We moved forward with Brooke going through an in vitro cycle, and she was able to get four healthy eggs for us. So we scheduled a time that we could implant two of those eggs. And we felt this renewed energy and excitement about it, that this time, it would work. The process is fairly simple. When they put the embryos in and then you just wait until you have a blood draw. And they can check to see if you're pregnant, and then you wait for another blood draw and see how your progesterone levels and all sorts of other levels to see if it's moving forward.  Initially, we got that first blood draw that said, "Yes, we were pregnant." And we were just so thrilled and ecstatic and hopeful. That part of our hearts was always reserved, because we'd experienced so much lost. And we didn't want to get our hopes up. Then we had our second blood draw, and the news was not good. They told me that my progesterone levels were dropping, and that I would probably miscarry.  We were just devastated and heartbroken and I felt lower than I had in any of the previous losses. Not Jonah's loss, but in the previous miscarriages and setbacks that we'd experienced, because I just felt so hopeful about this time. We got the phone call on a Saturday, and the next day was church. My husband was in a bishopric and he would go over early to have meetings and things and I would meet him later. I wasn't even sure I wanted to go to church. I didn't think that I could, because I was so heartbroken and devastated and sad. And I felt like I could have stayed home, and that would have been okay, but I got myself ready and I started driving and I was just crying in the car.  And on my way, I just felt like I needed to go to Jonah's grave. So I turned and I took a detour and I went to the cemetery and I went to his grave and I just knelt down right next to his headstone. I just felt so alone. And I wondered if God cared about what I cared about, if God wanted the same things that I wanted. If he knew me, if he was aware of me and my struggles, and I just didn't know if I could keep going. You know, it was so emotionally draining to go through this process over and over again.  I just prayed and I asked Heavenly Father to show me, to tell me, to let me know somehow that I was loved, that I was known, that there was a greater plan, and to give me the strength to keep going. I stayed there for a while just being alone there in the cemetery. And I got myself up and I went to church. And I don't remember anything about being at church. I just remember sitting around the hall. I'm feeling so sad. The next day, I went to work and I was gone most of the day, just tried to get through it. And when I got home, I checked the mail and there was a letter. It was a letter from someone that I didn't recognize the return address and I went inside and opened it.  Her name was Whitney, and I'm just going to read what she said. "I hope that this note is something that can strengthen your testimony and reminds you The Lord has a divine purpose and plan for all of us. I hope this note reassures you that prayers are truly answered, because you were an answer to ours. When I read what you wrote, it felt like a direct answer to my prayer the day before." I knew that she had written that note days before, weeks before I don't know when, you know, when she wrote it, but it had come to my doorstep the very day after I had said this really heartfelt prayer.  And it had answered all the questions that I had had about whether God was involved in the little day to day parts of my life. And all of the questions that I had heard about whether He cared about me and loved me and what role He played in our choices, and whether I could ask for the things that I really wanted and needed. This little letter just after that for me and confirmed to me that God loved me. And it felt like the most miraculous and beautiful gift from my Heavenly Father. At the time, we only had two embryos left from my sister. And it had been so devastating to miscarry that I wondered if I would be able to do it again and go through the process and the shots and the appointments, and the phone calls, all of it. But this letter just gave me this hope and energy and this belief that God was with us.  And I remembered that feeling I had in the garden as I was pulling up the grass, and that feeling of these two souls and two spirits. And I just felt like we had to keep moving forward, that we were moving towards a greater plan for our family.  During this time, I had many random experiences in which people told me about a different doctor that we should go to. Everyone from my visiting teacher to my phlebotomist that took my blood seemed to be telling me to go to this new doctor. And we had these two embryos, and we decided that what we had been doing wasn't working, and we need to try something else. So we decided that we would go to a new doctor.  The funny thing was that my husband, Jordan had to go get these embryos, from the fertility clinic, he had to pick them up in this little nitroglycerin case, and drive them on the freeway to the other clinic. And he was terrified. He was so worried that they would fall over and they'd get ruined and they're these tiny little cells that he had to move across Utah Valley to this new place. It was so absurd and strange to think of our . . . these two embryos moving before they were even little people down the freeway. But he was brave, and he did it, and he took those embryos to a new doctor.  And our new doctor immediately identified that I had a blood clotting issue and I had an immune reaction that we didn't know about, and he was able to pinpoint these things that had been ending my pregnancies and causing me to miscarry. That was so helpful to move forward with him and to have some answers to what we had been facing.  Knowing that we only had two embryos left, I finally asked my friends and family to fast for us. And I think part of the reason I hadn't asked for that before is because I had worried that if I asked for it, if we didn't have a successful pregnancy, my faith would just be broken. And it's such a vulnerable experience to go through these IVF cycles. Somehow, it felt safer to do it alone. Even though it felt safer, it was undeniable to me that God could use all of these different people in my life to create a powerful outcome.  So we went ahead with embryo transfer and the really amazing thing is that they show you a picture of these embryos before they put them in. So we were able to see what they look like and have a printed out picture of these embryos. And they were our last hope. They were the last two that we had. They did the transfer and it was right before Thanksgiving and I just remember being terrified. I was having panic attacks and I was so afraid, and we found out that I was pregnant. And then that just made it worse because I was so scared.  I was so scared that I would lose another pregnancy. And so we were just hanging on day to day, just taking it one day at a time moving forward. And we eventually were able to have an ultrasound at like eight weeks and we saw their little hearts beating every step along the way. We were terrified and scared but we just kept moving forward. And it was miraculous and amazing to see them growing.  It was hard and long and stressful, but we made it. Simon and Clara were born just after noon, on July 14. I remember before we went to the hospital, Jordan had talked to me and he said, "We shouldn't let people hold both babies at the same time," because he was so afraid of them getting hurt or something happening. And so I said, "Okay, if that's what you mean, like, we'll tell people they can't hold both babies at the same time."  And when I had the C section, they whisked Jordan back to where they were washing up the babies and the next thing I know, he comes out, and he's holding both of these babies at the same time. And it just felt like we had been through this incredibly hard, five years, and we were so afraid, and we were so hurt. And our hearts had been broken, like over and over again. And here he was holding both of these babies at the same time and it felt so brave. You know, I just felt like we were both so brave, and that God had been with us.  Even though I was afraid that I was leaving Him out of this experience, He had shown up for us all along the way. He showed up for us with my sister, when He'd given me that impression in the garden that was so powerful that stayed with me and kept me going. And He'd given me Whitney at the time that I needed this reassurance in this powerful, powerful way. And now here, Jordan was brave enough to hold these babies at the same time and they were with us, and they made it. We were so grateful. Brooke  52:08   The night, well, the day the babies were born, I got a call from my mom saying that it was time and Julie was going to go in to have a C section. And so I got right in the car, and I bought a plane ticket. And I just . . . so much hope and wonder and I couldn't wait to meet these babies. And I got there and got to the hospital. And Julie and Jordan were both just so exhausted. Both so exhausted, and I offered to spend the night with Julie that night and I stayed up all night and just stared at them.  Just in wonder and awe at the miracle of them. I was reminded over and over that night about the scripture at the end of Genesis where Joseph is talking to his brothers, who had sold him into slavery. And because of that, Joseph had suffered and grieved and had lost so much. And as he's speaking to the brothers, he says to them, "What happened was really painful. And it hurt a lot. But God has made it good and I am in the place of God." And that night as I lay there on that really uncomfortable cot with this precious baby in my arms, I just kept thinking, we are in the place to God. He has always been here in every moment, making it good even when we didn't know that it was good. It was beautiful. I've had the opportunity in my life to grieve. And in the moments of grief, I'm not sure I would have called it an opportunity. It was painful. It really, really hurt. But grief is one of those things that if we allow it to open us up, our grief will tether us to the hearts of other people and we will see how connected we are. We will see how similar we are. We will have compassion and love for other people. And I think when that happens when grief really opens us up, we are given the opportunity to participate in miracles and encounter God in everyone and in every story. Julie  54:47   The amazing thing was that Simon and Clara were born just a week after Jonah's birthday. And so as we went through their first year of life, all of their milestones lined up in the same seasons and times, as Jonah's did. And so we had this incredible reminder of Jonah, all through that first year, because it was just like we were walking through the same space that we had walked with Him.  We had not moved past our fear, we were still very afraid, but we have come to this incredibly beautiful moment where I realized that God and His plans are huge. They're enormous, and they're beautiful, and they're interconnected. And we don't always understand them, but they are divine in ways that we cannot even understand. KaRyn  55:52   That was Julie, Whitney, and Brooke. And I don't know about you, but my heart is just swimming with all the feelings after this story. There's just so much to witness here.  But for me, it's all really summed up in that quote that Brooke shared from Elder Neal Maxwell. She paraphrased it beautifully, but here's exactly what he said, quote, "The same God that place that star in a precise orbit millennia before it appeared over Bethlehem in celebration of the birth of the babe, has given at least equal attention to placement of each of us in precise human orbits, so that we may, if we will, illuminate the landscape of our individual lives, so that our light may not only lead others, but warm them as well," end quote.  Couldn't you feel that precision of our placement in orbit as we listened to Julie light the path for Whitney, who lit the path for Julie, so that she could walk towards Brooke who is lighting the path for Julie after Julie lit the path for Brooke? If it sounds complicated or circuitous–it is. But it's also insanely simple. We are all connected to each other by divine design. And when we decide to live our lives focused on Christ and His plan for our happiness, everything we do and everything we are becomes meaningful and useful in his plan. And we can't help but bump into one another in our efforts to live a life of discipleship because we are all pulled into the extraordinary orbit of the Son–together.  And then of course, there is Jonah. Sweet, sweet Jonah and his beautiful life that became the catalyst for so much connection. The whole time I was listening to the story, I was imagining Jonah ascending home like a reverse shooting star, full of joy as he sprinkled his life like powerful star dust to settle on each of these women who longed to see and know God.  I could also imagine his utter delight as he watched them embrace his gift and light up for each other, bringing warmth to the spaces where there was only darkest dark, and knowing to the long, quiet parts of that eternal orbit that felt completely unknowable.  And I could imagine him in that room with Julie and Brooke, and Simon and Clara, testifying that we are all one eternal round, and the connections that we have here on Earth, they're only a tiny part of what waits for us beyond right now. We are all connected. And if we've learned anything from this year of heartache, and masks and air hugs and zoom and loss and reckoning, it's that we can't actually do it alone. We really do need each other desperately. And if we will illuminate the landscape of our individual lives by connecting ourselves inextricably to Christ, the source of all connection, then our light may not only lead others, but it will warm them as well. That's it for this episode of "This Is the Gospel," and I cannot think of a better way to close out the season. Thank you to our storytellers, Julie, Whitney and Brooke for sharing so much of themselves with us all and for showing us the beauty of true connection.  You can learn more about our storytellers in our show notes at LDS Living.com/Thisisthegospel. All of the stories in this episode are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a story to tell, we want to hear it. You can call and pitch your story on our pitch line at 515-519-6179. And maybe you're listening and thinking I don't have a story to tell. Well, we're going to help you find it. We're working on a few bonus episodes during this in-between time that will help you learn how to find your own story so stay connected with us to know when those bonus episodes are coming by following us on Facebook or Instagram at @thisisthegospel_podcast.  Didn't you love the season? Tell us all about it. We get really lonely during the season breaks and it's so fun to hear from you. You can leave us a review on Apple, Stitcher or whatever platform you listen on. We read every one and truly appreciate your help and knowing what's valuable to you our listeners.  This episode was produced by me KaRyn Lay with additional story production and editing by Erika free and Kelly Campbell. And truly they deserve a medal for making this episode happen from just an idea in my head. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at Six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at LDS living.com slash podcast. See you soon   Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ashley’s life was in full bloom as a talented teenager when a tragic car accident leaves her grieving the loss of her father and her ability to play the piano. Her mother, Michelle, forges ahead to keep her family afloat without her husband when she receives an insistent prompting from the Spirit that will only make sense in the months to follow. In the end, that prompting is the key to Ashley’s healing and a reminder to both that love and family endure beyond the doors of death. Get pictures, bios and more in our shownotes at LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel You can also follow us on Instagram or facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast TRANSCRIPT:  KaRyn  0:03   Welcome to "This Is the Gospel," an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host KaRyn Lay.  Okay, be honest – when you saw this week's theme, did you gag a little bit and think, "Ugh, how cliche for the week of Valentine's Day?" If you did, I totally get it. Even as a person who loves love and finds deep joy in all those red hearts and the explosion of pink that comes with this holiday, it's sometimes hard to reconcile the expectations of love that we're sold in the movies with what actually happens when we attempt to practice this divine principle with human people.  It's funny, we throw the word "love" around like it's nothing when we're talking about our relationship to say – I don't know – a Popeye's spicy chicken sandwich, because well, it's delicious, for one thing, but also, we don't have any expectation that that sandwich is going to love us back.  But people? People are complex and interesting, and oddly enough, human. There's a deep risk to love that can feel way more intimidating and vulnerable than Valentine's Day, or Hallmark, or even Popeye's chicken sandwiches would have us believe. Loving someone means truly stepping into the unknown on so many levels.  So if you're worried that we took the easy way out here at "This Is the Gospel," don't let the theme fool you. Today, we have a story that does not shy away from the risky parts of love. But it also doesn't shy away from the beauty of it either.  Ashley and Michelle, our mother daughter storytelling team, have a tale of love, and loss, and miracles that spans this world and the next. It'll have even the most cynical among us believing in this thing called "Eternal love." A quick note, this story has elements of trauma that – while told carefully – may be hard for some sensitive listeners. First, we'll hear from Ashley and then Michelle will join in the story.  Here's Ashley and Michelle. Ashley  2:01   I've been playing the piano since I was eight. And my mom, was super adamant that all the kids learn how to play because she didn't know how to play and she wished that she did. So we would get up before school and practice half an hour before school and then half an hour after school every single day – piano was just always playing in our house and it was such a huge part of our lives. And I used piano as a stress relief. It was truly like my joy in life.  Family was also a big part of my life, and my dad actually used to love to sit in the living room and listen to me play. That was one of my favorite things to do was to play for my dad. We had such a genuinely good father-daughter relationship.  So when I was 17 – this was actually 17 years ago – my dad came to pick me up from a school event and my youngest brother – who was four at the time – tagged along. And halfway home, I was thirsty and begged him to stop at McDonald's, which was so out of character for me. I would have never asked to go to McDonald's, and he would have probably never pulled over, but he did. Like miraculously, he said, "Okay, let's do it." And while he was inside getting me a drink, I hopped in the backseat, which is also super uncharacteristic, especially for like a 17 year old, who likes to sit shotgun.  I went and got in the backseat, I was going to read to my brother and then take a nap. And I was asleep in the back, so I was unaware that we were in a car accident until it actually happened. And I just remember thinking as the car was . . . I could hear the windows being smashed and I could feel the like hot August air coming in. And I could smell like burning tire, and I knew that this was an accident and like the whole front of the car was gone.  First thing I did when I came to, is I checked my limbs. I checked my hands, and I made sure they were still there. That was the first thing that crossed my mind, I was so worried that I wouldn't be able to play the piano again. And they were still there, but I watched my left hand and wrist just start to crumble and deform before me, and I knew that it was not good. My brother was awake and he was conscious and crying and some angel of a woman who saw the accident came and got him out of the car.  And my dad was in the front, he was unconscious and I didn't know if he was alive or dead. I just knew that he didn't look great. Michelle  4:57   I was cleaning when I got a phone call, and it was 911. And I thought – 911? It just was trippy to me because 911 doesn't call me, I'm supposed to call them if there's a problem. And she told me her name, and she said to me, my family has been in a bad accident, and that if I could find somebody to take me up to the hospital, that was what they needed me to do. I . . . it just took me a moment to register what she was saying. I asked her individually, I asked her, "How is –" each one of them, "How is Jet? How is Ashley? How is Kash?" And I kept going over and over and over, like, how are they? Because I wanted to know what was going on. And she said to me that she didn't know. But she did know it was tragic. Ashley  5:55   My brother went to one hospital, and I went to another. And the hospital contacted my mom and told her where my brother was, but they couldn't find me – they didn't know where they had taken me. So I was alone, in and out of like ER rooms and x-rays and . . . being shuffled around before surgery for like five hours by myself. And no one knew where I was. I didn't know where I was, I didn't know the state of my family, like what was going on.  And I remember thinking on a gurney in some hallway waiting for the doctors, I just remember thinking, Heavenly Father, please, please do not let my dad die. I promise I will do anything and everything to be a good person if you let him live. And I remember feeling, I didn't hear it, but I felt it distinctly in my heart, that – "No, if I take him home, you will do anything and everything to be a good person to live with him again." And at that point, no one had to tell me that he had passed away, I knew that he was gone, because of that confirmation. Michelle  7:07   They accident happened at, oh, about a quarter to four, and I probably was at the hospital by four thirty. Maybe faster, you know, I got there pretty quick. But I can't recall exactly . . . I know a social worker came into the room they put me in. They put me and my kids and my girlfriend who drove me up there into like a room in the ER. And a social worker came in and I can't even recall what she said to me, but the next thing I know a sheriff and the bishop come in. And now there are three women in this room with my kids and the sheriff says, "Which one of you is Mrs. Johnson?" So . . . oh boy.  And he got on his knee – he had Kash's driver's license in his hand – and he got on his knee and . . . probably because that way he could see me face to face because I was sitting in a chair, and told me that Kash had passed away at the scene of the accident. I tried to deny it, like my mind just couldn't accept it. And I think you do anything you can to say "No, that's not him," or "Are you sure?" kind of a thing. And that was really hard to watch my two children that were there react to hearing that their dad had died because I couldn't prep them, I didn't know that was coming.  And um . . . that day in the driveway, I – because he was in a taller car, I just remember standing on the side rail – I'm short – so I stood on the side rail, put my head in the window and kissed him goodbye. . . Sorry. It's a hard memory. But um . . . and he said, "I love you," Of course we always said, "I love you," and "Goodbye." So I kissed him goodbye. And that was the last time I heard his voice or saw him or anything.  At this point we have no idea where Ashley is. No idea. Nobody can tell me – the hospital doesn't know anything about it, nobody can get to the bottom of it. I just think, where's my child? Someone finally said, "We found her." And uh . . . she was next door. She was at the U. And so now I've got to tell Ashley what really happened.  So I . . . my Bishop went with me. But he of course, said it was my job to do that. You can't prepare them or find words to say that to your kid. And I think by nature, when we have bad news, we don't want to say it, we find other things to say. So, you know, I've tried to catch my breath, and I walked into the room, and I can see that she's in pain and . . . and I don't know, do I hug and love her? Do I talk about her dad? What do I do?  And the first thing she says to me is, "How's dad? Where is he?" And I didn't want to tell her, so I told her about Jet. I said, "Well, Jet's in surgery, he's going to be okay," which I didn't know anything about. That was pretty much a good lie. But it felt a little safer, because I did see him alive. And so I told her that, and she pushed it. And I just thought, okay, I have to tell her. And I just said that . . . that he went home to Jesus. I couldn't say that he died, I just couldn't do it. So that's what I told her. I said, "He went home to Jesus."  The day after the accident – it was less than 24 hours for sure – that the organ donation people contacted me. They are the kindest, most empathetic and well-trained people to deal with such a heartache. And were so kind about me losing Kash, that he passed, but they also very tenderly reminded me that he had offered to donate, and if I was willing to honor that wish – and I told them, I would do that. And they said, "Well," you know, they said, "We need to read this to you." They said, "Can we have –" and they started going through the list. And it just became so overwhelming to me.  First, a lot of it was – they were medical terms, things that I wouldn't, I wouldn't call a body part, a layman's word. So some of them I just didn't even know. And at some point, I didn't care. And the list went on and on and on. I just thought, I can't hear this. I don't want to know what you're taking. Just take it all. And I told them that and they said, "We can't." "We have to read you the list, and you have to agree to each, each part." So I let them finish reading the list and I was overwhelmed. I also had the two kids that I needed to get back to at the hospital. So I just said, "Can you call me back in a couple of hours? I'm going to donate. But I have to breathe for a second." And they said, "Yeah, we'll call you back."  And in between that I asked the bishop, "Is this something that the Church is okay with? Kash really wanted to do this, he really wanted to donate." And he said, "Absolutely." So, a couple hours later, they called me back and they went through the list again. And I can't tell you if I paid much attention to the list. But apparently, I must have remembered a few things. And some of them were easy to remember. Like I remember things like heart valve, and I remembered . . . I heard the word "bones," I know what that is, but I didn't remember all the and I knew they were you taking his eyes and . . . but I couldn't tell you a lot of the other parts until it was reminded to me later, but the list was long.  And so I gave them permission. I just said, "Make sure that I can't tell when I bury him." They said, "We are perfectly careful about that." And so respectful. So it was not traumatic at all. And the decision had been made two or three years – two years before.  My husband Kash was a pilot for Delta Airlines. And probably about a year or two maybe before he passed away, he came home from a trip and he was quite emotional about something that had happened. And he told me the story. He said that before they took off on that day that a medical crew came on to the flight and brought an ice chest up into the cockpit, and it wasn't to be touched or anything like that. It just had to be there. And it had organs in it. And he knew that he was transporting it. It was going to a children's hospital.  It just really made him think he said the whole time that he was flying he thought about where it was going. We had five kids at that point and so it was probably really tender, and maybe . . .  it probably made him think about, wow, would I ever donate any of my kids parts or organs, or how would I feel if I was the one that needed to receive it for one of them? So it really touched him. And so that is how he decided that he was going to become an organ donor, just because it was such a tender moment for him.  And he often also said that, flying, he always felt that . . . It's really quiet in the cockpit  – when nothing's going on, of course – he always felt closer to Heavenly Father while he flew, because he could see the earth. And it just was a really spiritual time for him or it was – he could have spiritual moments while he flew. So having those organs in the cockpit with him, just really touched him. And it – enough that he came home and I can tell that something was going on, like "What, what's going on?" And he said, "I have to tell you this." It's just something that we don't think about much. And so he just had a situation that brought it right to his, to his face and his heart and everything else. It was in his presence right there. So it was easy for me to say yes. So that is how I was able to make the donation. Ashley  15:53   My mom eventually found me and she officially broke the news to me right before I went into surgery. For a while I was super angry. I mean, I was 17. And I was superficial and angsty. And it – my perfect life had been ripped out from under me and I was very angry at Heavenly Father.  I never doubted that he . . . I never doubted that my dad was supposed to die. Sounds terrible to say – I never doubted that though. I knew that that was part of the plan of salvation, and that he had work to do on the other side. And . . . but it made me mad. It made me mad that his work on the other side was more important than his work here with his family.  After several surgeries, my hand was still not healed. I couldn't move it, I couldn't move my fingers or my wrist, the blood flow was slowing down and my hand was dying. I couldn't play the piano. I was in a cast for 14 months after the accident. My brother had extensive head injuries, but he fully recovered. I would sit there at the piano and play one handed and just cry, because I didn't think I would ever be able to play again.  So I also danced, and that was over. I couldn't dance, I was too – there were too many surgeries, I was on too much medication. And just – that was over as well. My entire life went from this blossoming, full, happy life to nothing. I had, I felt like I had nothing and everything had been taken away.  My family was super close. And we pulled each other through it, but I think that I, personally, because I was in the accident had kind of a grudge a little bit? Because not only had I lost my dad like them, I was the only one that lost everything else. Like I was the one that was in the accident that . . . that had more than just my dad taken away. I was jealous. I think I was jealous of my siblings. I mean, I was jealous in the self absorbed teenage way. You know, like, I don't know it wasn't it . . . yeah, it didn't ruin any relationships at all.  About three or four months after the accident, my hand wasn't getting better and there wasn't a specific plan going forward, there were just options. And one of the options thrown out there very casually was just maybe we can do a bone graft. And then just as quickly as he said that, he went on to the next option. So it really . . . we didn't know for sure. Michelle  18:48   I just remember one of the times that we were disappointed again that a surgery didn't work, and as I was talking with the doctor about it, one of the things that he had said, "If some of the surgeries don't work, we can always take bone from her hip and do a transplant to her arm." And I did recall him saying that and I just thought, oh, we can't do that. Ashley was devastated when she heard that. She didn't need another surgery and another place that hurt on her body.  I just remember being at home or I couldn't tell you where it was. I have no idea if I was in my kitchen cooking, I don't know at all. I just know that out of nowhere, I had this moment where I went, "Oh my gosh! I donated his bones. Where are they? Oh my goodness. Where are they? Where are they? Where are his bones?" It just kind of like almost hit me – like I was stumped for sure. Because I wasn't thinking about her surgeries or anything, that conversation with the doctor had passed probably weeks before that. It wasn't on my mind, it just all of a sudden – there it was: you donated his bones.  It had been about three months down the road already. And I called the organ donation people and asked them, "Where are his bones?" Like, please – I just had my fingers crossed, please, please, please, I hope they're not gone. And they said, "Actually, they are not even finished being processed. We are about a week shy of them being done." That's when I called the doctor and said, "We donated bones from her Dad, can they be used?" And he's like, "Of course they can." He didn't know anything about that part of it of the story. So he called the – I'm going to say – the bone bank, because I don't know what words it's called, I kind of look at like a blood bank, and reserved what he needed, and then some. He said, "And extra, just to be sure." And so they were just put aside. And we still didn't know if we were ever going to need them. We hoped we didn't, because we didn't want to have to go through more surgeries on a trial basis to get there. Ashley  21:04   But then six months down the line, we knew that that was the last option. The last thing to do to save my hand was a bone graft. And at this point, my mom, the light bulb turned on. She says, "Guess what, I saved some bone, I reserved it for you. Let's do this." And so as I was in the operating room, before I went under, the doctor pulled out this little container, and it had my dad's bone in it. And he said, "Here it is, here's your dad, he's, he's gonna make you better."  And we both cried a little bit together, and then I went under and the surgery worked. My blood started flowing again, my hand, came back to life – I guess you could say. My fingers were able to move again, after lots of physical therapy. My wrist is still paralyzed, but I am so grateful to have a hand, I'll take it.  I think that had I received a transplant from anybody else, my own hip or another donor, that I may not have ever healed emotionally. I felt like I was getting a little bit of him back like he hadn't quite left me. And I also felt like even in death, that he was still my dad. And he was still looking after me and taking care of me and making it better.  The fact that I had lost everything, made it possible for me to get that very special, unique connection with my dad that none of the other kids were able to have. It was kind of the turning point where I could start to heal emotionally. And I think at that point, that I kind of accepted what had happened, and knew that everything was going to be okay. Michelle  23:12   I remembered that a good friend had told me when Kash passed away, that Kash was not released as my husband or wasn't released as the children's father, and that at any time that we needed him that we could call on him and he would be there if he could be, in any capacity that he really could be there for us. And so when we got the bones . . . to me that day, I felt like I had this . . . I don't know, beautiful confirmation from Heavenly Father, that Kash still belonged to us and that he was still a part of their lives – my children's lives – in any way that he could be. Ashley  23:58   My dad is very much alive in our lives still. We talk about him as if he just lived in another state. We talked about Papa Kash and who he was, what he did. We have a picture book of him that my kids look through and know all about his life. A lot of people after they die, we talk them up and we remember all the good things and forget all the bad. But I feel like everything that we talk about, like all the things we talk about my dad in death, that's how we talked about him in life. Like he was that big in life and he was such a good dad, Michelle  24:32   Because of his job, he was – when he was there, he was there all the time. And so his focus was 100% on the family or on the kids, mostly. He just enjoyed every second being with them, so that's what he did. Until his next trip and then he would hurry up and come home and start all over with all the playing and homework and everything else he loved doing. Ashley  24:53   My kids who've never met him like to hold my hand and say, "Oh, it's Papa Kash." And it is, it is fun to think that I literally have a piece of him with me, always.  I think that we are able to do this because we know that we're going to see him again, like we know that he is still alive and present. I mean, truly, if it wasn't for the Savior and the knowledge of the plan of salvation, I'm not sure that I would have been able to get over this. And I really clung to my testimony of the plan of salvation, to kind of understand and accept why my family would lose my dad. Michelle  25:38   At the time of Kash's death, I felt like we . . . I thought that we were doing okay in the gospel, I felt like that we had tried hard or, you know, were obedient and did the things that we were supposed to. But the day that he died, our eyes opened up to the all the truth. We always thought we knew the truths, but when you need them to be true, and you just don't say, "I believe they're true," but you need them to be true, it's different.  I like to use this analogy that the day that he died, our family's ship sunk, and the captain went down with the ship. And we were tossed in an ocean of waves. And then I realized that we were wearing life jackets. And I always say, and that was the Savior who gave those to me. He didn't stop the storm, but he gave us tools to be in it. He gave me life jackets. And did I go underwater, every time a huge wave came? I went down. And thought I would never come up.  The only thing that came to my mind was get those children's life jackets attached to mine. In my mind, that was like, get those kids as close as I came to me every day all day. This is my world, I've got to help these kids survive. And then over time, the waves felt to be a little lower and a little further apart. And as I paid attention, I noticed that I wasn't – we weren't floating anymore. Now we were on like, a piece of wood. And then I noticed it was like a little dinghy. Over time, we figured that we could see – it wasn't like we ever watched it happen, but we could look back and say, "Wow, we've built our own ship now." We are not drowning. But it took us from drowning to . . . until one day we looked and we had rebuilt a life and we had a ship and not one second of that time that we went from being our ship sinking, to getting on to being on our new ship, not once were we not completely aware who was building that ship with us. Whose hand was there. Ashley  28:11   There really is a plan. And the plan of salvation is real and alive and there are no coincidences, there are no accidents, that Heavenly Father really does have the big picture. And even though it doesn't make sense, and even though we hate it sometimes, in the end, everything that He does for us is for our good. KaRyn  28:39   That was Ashley and her mother Michelle. We first learned of Ashley's story when it was featured on the Humans of New York Instagram account not long ago. We love Humans of New York and the work that they do to bring humanity and empathetic stories to our social feeds. So before we even knew the whole story, we were just drawn to the love – that true love – that permeated this family and their experience with their loss.  The fact that Ashley's dad's love could reach from beyond the grave to offer healing to her and so many through the donation of his earthly body, it's really inspiring and hopeful.  Our story producer, Erika, pointed out this really beautiful parallel. It didn't scientifically or medically have to be Kash's bone that was grafted into Ashley's hand, but the fact that it was brought so much healing in a way that no other surgery could have accomplished.  As you and I move through life and love on this earth there are plenty of options for mitigating the natural pain and suffering that come with mortality. But there is only one option, one true option that has the power to bring real healing to us. The atoning gift of our Savior. And every time we accept the offer of the sacrament, that beautiful symbol of his flesh and his blood, every time that we humbly take that into our own bodies, we are grafted into the body of Christ and blessed to see his salvation bloom in our lives. Talk about a love that is enduring and eternal.  I want to go back to what I said in the intro. Loving people the way God loves them is a risky business. We have expectations and hopes when we love deeply that leave us vulnerable to loss and deep sorrow, especially when, as Michelle said, the ship goes down.  It would be really easy to believe that all that love that we poured into that ship is lost under those mountain waves of grief and pain. I had an opportunity recently to revisit a talk that President Nelson gave long before he was President Nelson. It was a general conference talk from 1992 called, "Doors of death." It might seem like a really morbid title for a talk, but as I read it, my heart was filled with that strange fluttering of hope that comes from truth.  One part that really stood out to me was this: President Nelson said, quote, "We mourn for those loved and lost. Mourning is one of the deepest expressions of pure love. It is a natural response in complete accord with divine commandment: thou shalt live together in love, in so much that thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die. The only way to take sorrow out of death, is to take love out of life."  Both Michelle and Ashley understand this concept well. That taking the love out of life is not an option. As disciples of Christ we sign up to live the commandment to love, to risk it all by pouring our hearts into one another. C.S. Lewis said in his book, The Four Loves, quote, "If a man is not on calculating toward the earthly Beloved, whom he has seen, he is none more likely to be so towards God whom he has not. We shall draw nearer to God, not by trying to avoid the suffering inherent in all loves, but by accepting them and offering them to him, throwing away all defensive armor. If our hearts need to be broken, and he chooses this as the way in which they should break, so be it."  I think what C.S. Lewis and President Nelson are saying is that mourning departures from this life is actually proof positive that we honored our covenants. That deep expression of pure love means that every tear, every dip below the waters is more evidence that love is still with us in its most eternal and everlasting form.  And that it can actually be a tool to bring us closer to the source of true healing and hope. So if you have an ache that lingers after deep loss, that leaves you feeling unmoored and drifting at sea, there's nothing wrong with you. It just means that you have loved well and eternally. And when the time is right, probably just when you think you can't bear one more dip below the waves, you'll remember the reserves of strength and hope that God has set aside for you in your very bones that will bring healing.  You'll remember that you are always encircled about by the life jacket that comes from the gift of the greatest and most eternal act of enduring love. You'll feel and understand what President Nelson said that, quote, "We need not look upon death as an enemy. With full understanding and preparation, faith supplants fear. Hope displaces despair. The Lord said, 'Fear not even unto death. For in this world your joy is not full. But in me, your joy is full.'" That's it for this episode of "This Is the Gospel." Thank you to our storytellers, Ashley and Michelle for sharing their story and their love. We'll have a link to the Humans of New York post, as well as more info from both our storytellers in our show notes at LDS living.com/Thisisthegospel. That's also where you can find a transcript of each episode.  If you haven't already started to follow us on social media, please go and find us on Instagram or Facebook @ThisIsthegospel_podcast, we promise it will add to your scrolling instead of taking away.  The stories in this episode are true and accurate, as affirmed by our storytellers and we find lots of our stories through our pitch line season over season. So if you have a story to share about a time in your life when you learned something new by practicing the gospel of Jesus Christ, we want to hear from you.  The best pitches will be short and sweet and have a clear sense of the focus of your story. You'll have three minutes to pitch us your story when you call 515-519-6179. If you want to help spread the word about "This Is the Gospel," there are two ways to do it. Share an episode with your friends, because personal recommendations are kind of the best. You can also leave a review of the podcast on Apple, Stitcher or whatever platform you listen on. Reviews help our podcast to show up for more people who are weeding through the true crime podcasts and other offerings on those platforms.  This episode was co-produced by me KaRyn Lay, with Erika Free who also produced and edited our story. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at Six studios, our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at LDS living.com/podcasts.   Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

THIS IS LOVE, THIS IS THE GOSPEL // 1 John 4:7-11 Love is the outflow of a heart which has received the Gospel. How do we know we have received the Gospel? Because we love.

Stories in this episode: Adam is all set for a safe career in engineering when a chance encounter leads him to embrace his true creative calling as an animator; When faced with upheaval and contention in her community, peace-loving Bryn finds solace in repentance and a prompting to fold 1,000 origami cranes. To see our show notes for this episode (transcript, pictures, links, & more!) go to ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel TRANSCRIPT  Coming soon! Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

KaRyn chats with Emily from episode 34 about her life after Mac’s passing, and how she kept their promise to bring joy to others through music, even after a brain surgery; Sarah learns from legendary Stacy Taniguchi from episode 37 about his life philosophy of thriving, and where it all began for him. Show Notes:  To see pictures and links for this episode, go to Living.com/thisisthegospel Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In our informational age, we can Google just about anything and find thousands if not millions of points of reference. We can get lost in the fog of what the world calls understanding, knowledge, and wisdom. How do we distinguish the true voices of wisdom from all the noise?In our attempts to share the gospel message have we interjected a little of our worldly wisdom in order for it to make more sense to the listening world? The Bible calls that adulterating the word or peddling the word of God.The Apostle Paul stated on a few occasions that he did not come in the superiority of speech or worldly wisdom but in the power of the gospel. He did not want men's salvation to rest upon the wisdom of men but on the power of God.Our everyday living requires wisdom. We can receive instruction or acquire understanding but without the wisdom to know how to apply those things in our present-day circumstances, we will not discover the full results of what we think we know.God is the giver of this heavenly wisdom that comes straight from HIs heart to ours. This communication must come from a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ and revealed through the Holy Spirit living within us. It is not acquired through human effort.THIS IS THE GOSPEL!

When the demand for potatoes plummeted during the outbreak of COVID-19, Ryan did something unthinkable. He dumped 2 million pounds of potatoes on his farm and, through a Facebook post, invited anyone to take what they needed. Little did he know that this post would reach a single mother in Kenya and give him the opportunity to act on the Savior's invitation to feed His sheep both physically and spiritually. Show Notes:  To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel Transcript:  KaRyn  0:03  Welcome to This Is the Gospel, an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay. At the time of this recording, I am currently in quarantine waiting for the results of my COVID-19 test. I'm okay. It's okay. But it is amazing how quickly a little under-the-weather feeling sends us into a downward spiral of brain frenzy. Where have I been? Who was I with? Did I take off my mask somewhere forget to wash my hands that one time? Who did I give this to? It's enough to drive you crazy, whether it's COVID or not. But it also has me thinking about this week's theme and story because in the midst of all the uncertainty and exhaustion I have been fed, literally and figuratively, a simple warm bowl of soup from Chick-fil-A on the porch from a neighbor, a just-checking-in text from a friend, an offer to take things off my work plate, bless you. And a well-timed scripture in my "Come, Follow Me" study that's bringing me a lot of hope. All of these things have helped me to know that I am not alone, even when I'm feeling really vulnerable. And they bring me a sense of safety of peace, and, like I said, hope. I think that regardless how we interpret or act on the Savior's charge after His resurrection to feed His sheep, the end result for those that we care about will be the same—a sense of safety, of peace, of fullness, and of hope. And in today's episode, we have one story from Ryan, a farmer in Idaho who thought he was being prompted to do what farmers do: feed people from the land. But it wasn't the potatoes that ultimately made the biggest difference. Here's Ryan. Ryan  1:47  We farm about 20,000 acres. We do a lot of potatoes and sugar beets, and a lot of other crops as well as cattle. We grow potatoes for both the process industry, which is companies that make french fries, that's our biggest customers is the french fry. And then we also do fresh pack where we're part-owners in the company that packs potatoes into boxes and bags that go to grocery stores and restaurants. This last year, was in 2019, was a great year. We were super excited at the end of the harvest, we had a great crop, things are looking very good and the economy was doing well. People were out in about, you know, eating and restaurants. And there actually was a really good demand for potatoes, specifically. And there also was a little bit of a tight supply of potatoes and so potato prices looked like they were going to be at record levels. So we were really excited about how things look for us. And so a lot of optimism going into the first part of 2020. And then, you know, sometime around, you know, the end of January, in the very first part of February, I started to hear a little bit about this virus. I remember, right at the very beginning having kind of a sick feeling in my gut, you know, this could be something very serious, both for the world but also for our company. And then we started talking about how are we going to control this, we're going to do shut downs and things like that, then the reality really start setting. So the first thing that we saw here was the food service side, the restaurants really took a beating as they began to close down. And so we saw our customers' demand go from very strong to almost a complete stop. I felt a sense of almost panic at the time. I felt like that, you know, we could be in financial jeopardy, that potentially it could take farms out of business. At this time, we were praying as a family that we would be able to sustain through this difficult time, asking for Heavenly Father's help to get through it. I also asked many times, "What is it we need to learn from this experience? What are the correct decisions might be that we continue to support our family here for generations to come?" So I guess April time is planting time, but it's also the time of the year where we have still have potatoes in storage from the previous year's harvest. Usually, we can either sell those to other farmers or we can take those to the dehydrated market make dehydrated flakes. And so I made the usual phone calls to the dehydrating companies. They just laughed at me, they're like, "We're not buying anything right now. We don't see anything opening up." You know, farmers were cutting back because of their contracts and what they were going to plant so there was no one to sell the potatoes to. They were beautiful potatoes. You know, I really struggled with what to do with them. And the other only option that we had was to be to feed them to cattle as we have some of our own cattle. So that's kind of what our initial intent would be to dump them on the ground, we could feed them later to our own cows. But as a as a dumped them there looked at how pretty the potatoes were. And when we were all said and done, we had about 2 million pounds of potatoes. And if you figure about, you know, a half pound is a potato, there's probably 4 million potatoes there. I'm like surely there's got to be something that would be a better use than cattle feed. So I pondered that over for a part of a day. And I had the distinct impression to give some of them away. I knew that people were, some people lost their jobs, maybe struggling financially. So I just made a post on Facebook or something along the lines of, "Due to COVID, we're gonna have to dump some potatoes, you're welcome to come get some if you'd like some." Really, I had no idea that people will take that as seriously as they did. I thought maybe a few friends, neighbors would come gather a few up and the rest would go to cattle feed. But I was wrong majorly wrong. The first day, people started to show up, you know, friends, neighbors, just car after car after car. And I would say hundreds of people the first day came. We were just blown away. We couldn't believe the amount of traffic and it was like a almost like a highway. So then, the next day, I thought things would be over and it would quiet down. But by early morning, this traffic started up again. And same thing, steady stream of traffic going by. And so during this whole time, the Facebook posts started to spread. And I started to get a lot of comments, but a lot of shares, ended up with over 10,000 shares when it was all said and done. So we started to see, after the first few days, people come from far away into you know, Utah, up into the Boise Valley, both a three, four hour drives. Then even brass even farther and I saw people come in from down into Nevada and Elko and Wells, you're starting to talk no more like a five or six hour drive. And then as far as way as Las Vegas and Moscow, Idaho, straight, you know, 10-hour drives. One lady called from Kansas, which is like an 18 hour drive. And after a day or two what really started to stand out to me was the reason why people were coming to get the potatoes. The gas money was way more than what the potatoes were worth in, all circumstances. But I started to get a glimpse of the people just wanted to come and do something good for somebody else. It was the beginning of the lockdown, they been locked in their home. And I think it was just a great way for people to have an opportunity to get a glimpse of something they could do, something kind for other people. And that's really what amazed me. I would say 95% of everyone that came came in for somebody else. You know, I made a connection with a man out of New York City and we shipped a full semi load of boxed potatoes to the Bronx. And they were just trying to do something good for their community. And that was really the story of what I saw. As people reached out, many people wanted to help. We'd get anonymous donations from as far away as New York and Canada. And they felt like, you know, with the potatoes that we were giving away, that was, you know, going to bankrupt us. That really wasn't the case. Initially, I refused that. I didn't want to take money for this. This was something we kind of talked about as a company that we would continue to just give them away. Somebody tried to slip envelopes here and there, but we'd give them back. But I really couldn't stop the money that was coming in from distant lands and anonymous money. So as the Facebook posts expanded, I started to hear from some news agencies. I did interviews with CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, I do a little podcast with NPR. And then some of those stories ended up into the national or the world media. And so I started to have messages and comments and emails from people from all over the world. And one of the people that I noticed on one of the Facebook comments, was a lady named Susan. She's from Kenya, and, for whatever reason, I'll just remember, seeing her picture and this impression that I wanted to just see what she had to say. And so I clicked on her comment. And the comment was something along the lines, "I wish you could send some of those potatoes to me." But just, you know, shipping potatoes to Kenya or even other parts of countries, you know, it's cost prohibitive so it's not going to work. So I responded, "Well, I wish I could. What is it like in Kenya with COVID?" She just commented that she lived in Nairobi, Kenya, and it's a city of about 4 million people. We're talking dirt floor, tin shack, cardboard-type homes, and she just explained how they were living hand to mouth as it was, you know, trying to feed her family. She's a single mother of three children. And then with the lockdowns that the government had put on, imposed upon them in Kenya, you know, they really didn't have an opportunity to go into work and, you know, bring food home to the family. And so as I thought about a little bit, I come back and asked her a little bit later, you know, if there's nothing I can do to help? She really says, "Well, I don't think there's much you can do to help. But we just need something to eat." So I think I thought about that a little bit and in my pickup, I've had $100 bill that had been floating around in the center console of my truck for almost a year. And I'm like, "I'll just, I'm just gonna send her this money." And it's really not that easy to send money to Kenya. We finally figured out how to do it. And so I ended up sending the money over there to Susan. And a couple days later, I think it was over the weekend, so I think on Monday, she sent me a little picture of her family as they come back from the store with their groceries. And she brought back, you know, a big bag of flour, rice, and cooking oil and sugar, and just the staples, beans. And right on the very top a little there's one little teeny pack of cookies. It just struck me funny as we eat here in our country and go shopping, you know, you bring home for frozen pizzas and Snickers bars and ice cream and just things that didn't even cross her mind. And she wrote me back and she sent a picture and just saying, "Thank you. This will fit our family for months." So I continue to have money come into the company to help us. I've been thinking about you know, "Is there something I could do with this money, or something I could leverage to make this something bigger?" And in one of my conversations with Susan, she said, "My dream and prayer is to educate my children and to see them go to the university. I don't want them to raise their children in the ghetto like I have raised them." I don't know, there's something that really struck a chord with me on that. And so almost immediately, I had an idea, I'm like, "That's what I want to do. I'm gonna, I'm gonna help her children receive an education." And so I had the thought, "Okay, I'm gonna take the money that have already been given and put that toward the cause. I'm going to do a GoFundMe and I'll send this out to everyone that was wrote these nice comments and things on my Facebook page, I linked that to it. And so I pondered over it on a Sunday, all day. I started to do a little video to put that out and asking people for help. And I thought people responded really well to it. So we were able to raise more than enough, I think, to put most her kids through college. I think some people felt like maybe it could be a scam, or something like that. But I really felt in my heart, I knew that it was not. I had big, long conversations with Susan. I knew her heart. And so I was so excited about it. I'd share it with the family every day, we sit around the dinner table discussing where we're at what to do, and we've decided that even if we come up short, we as a family, we're gonna pitch in and make the dream happen for them one way or the other. And about then I kind of lost contact with Susan. At first, I was, I was a little bit wary. I'm like, okay, you know, what if something happened to her or. . .  But then I saw a post, and I think she had maybe even posted it herself, on Facebook and of like bulldozers bulldozing buildings and stuff down. And so I clicked on it and it was following that a little bit. And so I looked it up on the news and there was an article on it in the Kenyan news about how the goverment was working on a big waterworks project and this sewer plan, so they decided to knock those homes down. And, and so, as that was all demolished and twisted up in the metal and some of the belongings, and that, you know, I know that it was probably very devastating for, for her. And so the excitement of raising, you know, the money to help her children was kind of overcome with, we just needed to survive the next while. I was very nervous about how they were. Prior to and during this process, I made another friend in Kenya in Nairobi, his name was Titus. And he's a member of the Church there was in the bishopric in one of the wards and he seen an article on LDS Living that had been done about the story. So he reached out to me and just asked if there's something you could do to help. So I asked him if he'd go see if you could find Susan. And I had her phone number, but he was able to track her down and to check in on her. She found some shelter in a church, somewhere in the city for a few nights. And she had family nearby. And so her one sister let her stay with her for a shorter period of time while she got her feet back under underneath her. And so eventually, I heard back from her, and she, you know, she told me what had happened. They were safe. They were sound, they just needed somewhere to stay. She's was very discouraged, and in quite a bit of despair, I would say. So it was about this time that we started to have a little bits of discussions on occasion about God, talking about faith. And I asked her if she'd be willing to meet with the missionaries from my church, and that they would have a message that they would share with her that potentially changed her life, for the better – forever. She willingly accepted. And said she'd be happy to meet with the missionaries. So how do you get in contact with missionaries in a foreign country? Our friend, good friend, Titus, connected us with the missionaries and was able to get her phone number, make the connection, and so the missionaries like right away, they started to teach the first discussion. She'd come over to the church where they met and did a discussion and gave her a little tour of the church, and  . . . But as I've seen before, as I served on my own mission is, you know, sometimes as people start to learn and hear about the gospel, life can get really complicated for them pretty fast. And so, again, I couldn't make contact with Susan for quite some time. Finally, Titus, I think was able to track her down, and she's been robbed, and had been her – had her phone stolen. And I just thought, Well, yeah, this is – she's starting to learn about something that really can have life changing meaning in her life as she prepares to learn about the Savior and the Gospel. And then she's robbed. Like, what else could possibly go wrong? Again, an impression come to me that, you know, sometimes during our darkest hour comes – next comes the light. I really felt like that was going to be the case that Susan would soon see light in her life. And I didn't know exactly what that meant. I really wasn't that optimistic that things would go far with the missionaries, but I knew that there was going to be something good that happened in her life. In all our discussions with Susan, she never asked me for a single thing, and one day, she sent me a little message. And she said, "I feel like that I'm becoming a burden to you." She wanted to become more self–reliant and to be able to take care of her family. She expressed her concern in doing that. She didn't want to be a burden to others. She said that her doctor had told her that she needed to quit doing what she has done for an occupation to help feed her family, and that was doing construction. I have pictures of her packing these huge concrete blocks on her shoulders into the construction sites. And she talked about how how little money that paid how hard it was, and it had done damage to her back. Many times the women over there were taken advantage of and sometimes not even paid for their work. She said that she has an opportunity, that something she knows, to start her own business. And so she asked me the first time for something, and that was "Would you loan me some money so that I'll be able to start this business?" It was just a few hundred dollars, a very small amount. So I told her, "Yeah, I'd be, I'd be thrilled to help you start your own business." And so it had come to me the thought about the self–reliance course on how to start your business. And so I reached out to Titus and asked him if he could come up with the manuals and the books. And he did. And he took them to Susan and gave it to her. And so a week or so later, I asked her, "How's the business start–up going?" And she says, "No, I'm not, I'm not doing any of that, I  want to finish reading the self-reliance manual first." And so she was like, really into it, you know, reading the self-reliance program and how it can help her, and then Susan was able to start her own fruit stand business. So it's about this time that she was pretty quiet about things. And Titus actually told me first that she made a decision to be baptized, her and her daughter. But then the next day, in the conversation with Susan, she told me that she decided to be baptized and become a member of the Church. I was thrilled. I expressed to her that I wish that I could be there for it, because I really wanted it to be. I wish I could just jump on an airplane, fly out there, but I knew that wouldn't be realistic. I asked, "Could you make sure you send me pictures?" And so I asked her that, and she – and they did, they sent lots of pictures. And Titus was there too and he sent me pictures. It was a really special day, just to see the smiles on her face and see them all dressed in white. It was kind of surreal, but it was something that really touched me and our family was in celebration for the whole day. It was just a great experience to see. And I knew this could be a great beginning, that could really change her life and the lives of her children. She's expressed to me many times about her testimony and God and His desire to help her and that she's recognized that things will come in their own due time, in God's own time. We've since taken some of the education fund, and we've got her kids enrolled in private school. Public school in downtown Nairobi, you know it's a very difficult circumstance – 150 kids shoved into one classroom, there's not a lot of learning going and so we felt like if they're gonna have a chance at the university, that private school is going to be the best for them. And it's not a lot of money, a small amount. She sent me a pictures of her boys on the first day of school all dressed in their little uniforms and their books. It was the cutest thing you've ever seen. Her daughter, Serena just enrolled in school, but because of COVID her schools are still shut down, and so we haven't been able to get her in yet. At times in our life, when we think times are the most difficult, and are the most challenges it's really something that can end up being our greatest blessings. And I've seen that many times in my life. It's something that we see on the farm all the time, if the rain comes for 30 days straight – at the time it seems like the worst possible thing in the world because we can't get the work done, can't get it done timely. But six months later, when we're harvesting our crop and we have record crops – then comes the blessing that we see the law of the harvest, of how what seemed like the most difficult thing really ended up being something great. And I think we're seeing that in, in this circumstance with, you know, having to dump potatoes, you know, what seemed like a total disaster ended up being such a wonderful blessing, lead to a family in Kenya, on the other side of the world that could potentially have their lives changed forever. I just couldn't envision that at first. But I knew that as they had prayed, what could we experience, what could we learn from this COVID and from the whole tailored experience of being patient and waiting on the Lord's time for that to come to pass. I really feel like that has come to fruition and really just see somebody's live blessed as we learn to listen to the promptings of our Heavenly Father that come to us and follow them. It's really how we accomplish going about doing God's work that He would do if He was here Himself, to do our Heavenly Father's work. And I really want to envision and look just to see if Susan's family, a decade from now, a generation or two from now, to see what kind of difference that made. Something little, a little thing like dumping a few potatoes out in a, in a pile on the edge of a field, how that can lead to change the lives of many generations to come and really to see great things come to pass. That's really a testament to me of really how God works. We have to have trust in Him and what He allows us to go through and the trials that we have that that He – iti is maybe be what's best for us and really can be our greatest blessing.   KaRyn  26:28  That was Ryan Cranney. LDS Living first shared Ryan and Susan's story in a written article this past spring, and we loved that we could get it in Ryan's own words here on the podcast. And because you know that we love to have all sides of the story here at This Is the Gospel, we did reach out to Susan to see if we could make that happen. But the time differences from Kenya to the US and technological challenges made it impossible right now. We're so grateful for her willingness to be part of the story and we will have more of her own words in our show notes as soon as we possibly can. You know, when story producer Katie Lambert was working on this story, she remarked to me several times, pretty much every time we talked about it, how much she enjoyed Ryan's unassuming demeanor. She is well acquainted with the Idaho farmer life and said that he is an Idaho farmer through and through. Matter of fact about the loss of a major part of his income for the year, and matter of fact about his decisions to give the potatoes away and matter of fact about his prompting to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with Susan and her family. I'm in awe of Ryan solid faith in God's timing and His plan for each of us. He understands something that I feel like I'm still trying to learn every single day. The loss of the potatoes and the money that those potatoes represented was a temporary and temporal setback. But the joy in feeding thousands or helping one soul come home to the Savior's fold, that's an eternal and everlasting joy, nothing temporal about it. And that kind of perspective is exactly what Elder Holland was talking about when he gave his beautiful 2012 General Conference address titled: "The First Great Commandment." There isn't time here to recount the entire address, we'll put it in our show notes, you really need to go and reread it. It's so good, and so important. But Elder Holland shares the story of the resurrected Savior coming to His apostles who have turned back to the work they did before they were first called to leave their nets and follow Him. And after showing them his power to feed the world, physically, by filling their empty fishing nets, He implores Peter three times, "Do you love me?" And when Peter answers have after each question with "Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee." The Savior responds with these words, "Feed my lambs. Feed my sheep. Feed my sheep." Elder Holland goes on to say, quote, "I am not certain just what our experience will be on judgement day, but I will be very surprised if at some point in that conversation, God does not ask us exactly what Christ asked Peter, 'Did you love me?' I think he will want to know if in our very mortal, very inadequate and sometimes childish grasp of things. Did we at least understand one commandment, the first and greatest commandment of them all? Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength and with all thy mind. And if at such a moment, we can stammer out, 'Yeah, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee,' then He may remind us that the crowning characteristic of love is always loyalty. 'If ye love me, keep my commandments, 'Jesus said. So, we have neighbors to bless. Children to protect. The poor to lift up, the truth to defend. We have wrongs to make right and truth to share and good to do. In short, we have a life of devoted discipleship to give in demonstrating our love of the Lord. We can't quit and we can't go back. After an encounter with the living Son of the living God, nothing is ever again to be as it was before." End quote. When I think of Ryan's story, I think of this kind of love. This kind of loyalty. The kind of love that started with a pile of potatoes in an attempt to feed a hungry world. The kind of love that presented a willing heart that some may have seen as naive, ready to engage with someone very different from himself and his circumstances. And finally, the kind of love that knows that the true soul food of this sometimes treacherous, and confusing earth life, the real sustenance for those of us who hunger and thirst looks a lot less like potatoes, and much more like the making and keeping of sacred covenant as disciples of Jesus Christ. So this week, my friends, regardless of what your test results say, or a relentless year flings at you, I pray with all of my heart that we will seek to be filled with that kind of love. And as Elder Holland invites us to do, that we'll move forward, ever forward, to show that love by feeding His sheep. That's it for this episode of This Is the Gospel thank you to our storyteller Ryan Cranney and Susan. We'll have more information about them and their story including pictures, as well as the link to Elder Holland's talk in our show notes at LDS living.com/Thisisthegospel. You can also get more good stuff by following us on Instagram or Facebook at Thisisthegospel_podcast. The story in this episode is true and accurate as affirmed by our storyteller. And of course, if you have a story to share about living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, please call or pitchline and leave us a story pitch. We're currently looking for Christmas stories. Stories about getting it right, getting Christmas right. The best pitches will be short, they'll be sweet and they'll have a clear sense of the focus of your story. So call 515-519-6179 and leave us a message. Did you know that when you leave a review of this podcast on Apple, stitcher or wherever you listen, it makes it so that more people can find the podcast? If you can't figure out how to leave a review, which I totally get, check out our highlights on our Instagram page for some tips. This episode was produced by me KaRyn Lay with help from Sarah Blak – bless you Sarah – and story production and editing from Katie Lambert. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at Six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at LDSliving.com/podcasts. Be well everybody! Stay safe.     Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: Vinnie’s experience of coming unto Christ is made up of small decisions that end up changing his heart in unexpected ways; Lisa's decisions about which hymns to sing at her son's funeral end up leading to a moment of profound healing. PLEASE NOTE: stories may contain themes addressing topics that are sensitive for some listeners. We suggest previewing before sharing with children or youth. Show Notes:  To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel Transcript:  KaRyn  0:04   Welcome to This Is the Gospel, an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay.  Well, here we are barreling toward another election here in the US. And it seems that whether we like it or not, decisions and decision making is in the air and it's on our minds. I, for one, love it. The thinking about the decision making, not the actual making of the decisions that I find desperately difficult sometimes, but the thinking about decision making that intrigues me.  I studied communications in school and the sheer amount of energy that researchers have put into understanding the who, what, where, and why of decision making is amazing. There are theories about the psychology of decisions, the neuroscience of decision making, the economy of decisions, everywhere you look, we human beings are trying to figure out how to make the right choice. Or if I go to my cynical place, we human beings are trying to figure out how to get people to make the decisions that we want them to make.  But there's a reason that we've invested so much effort in trying to figure this out. Decisions can feel weighty and really big. In fact, the origin of the word "decision" actually speaks to that. It comes from a Latin root of a word that I can't pronounce well enough to say it here and embarrass myself, but it means to cut off. When we make a decision, when we choose to go one way or the other, we are literally cutting off another option and all the possibilities that that option represents. If that isn't enough to make you never want to make another decision, I don't know what is. I hate the loss of all that possibility.  But one thing I think most of this research might be getting wrong in that careful analysis of the process is that decision making doesn't have to be so hard. As followers of Christ, we have access to some really powerful tools to help us know what to cut off and what to keep. And whether you are decisive or indecisive or somewhere in between, today's stories about the power of our decisions—both big and small—will get you thinking about what we choose and why we choose it. And how that has everything to do with moving closer to our best selves as disciples.  Our first story comes from Vinnie, who, like most of us, couldn't see the collective power of the decisions he was making until much further down the road. Here's Vinnie. Vinnie  2:37   Small decisions in our lives can lead to either good or bad consequences later on. And it's the small decisions that sometimes we don't even realize we're making that can affect us in so many different ways.  It all started very young. I grew up in a family just outside of Boston, Massachusetts. I had great parents, my dad's Catholic and my mom was a convert to the Church. We never went without anything we needed, but we definitely weren't rich or well off in anyway.  My parents both divorced when I was one, so pretty young. And they both remarried at some point when I was about two or three. And I don't know if it was the competitiveness between them. I was probably too naive as a young kid. But I was with my dad every other weekend. And we would go to the youth programs for the Catholic Church and see some of the people there or even sometimes there's activities for youth on Sundays or on the weekends that we were there. And when I was with my mom, we would go to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And so I got to have a taste a little bit of both.  My mom didn't go to church a lot. She went often but not regularly. And we weren't a family that had you know, family home evening that had dinner together. And we weren't a family that prayed together. We didn't do regular fasting. I didn't even know what fasting was until I was 18, 19 years old. And so we didn't have a lot of those basic teachings that you see in the Church now.  I think deep down, there was some feelings that there was a difference between the Catholic Church and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when I attended. Both churches teach great things. Both have great principles. But I felt more of something when I attended church with my mom, but I never understood what it was, never really knew what it was.  At some point, my dad stopped taking us to church. And my mom, she let us make a decision when we were about 14 whether we continue to go to church or what we wanted to do. I have two older brothers, one is four years older, the other one is five years older. They both decided not to go to church anymore. They went a totally different direction. I think for me, personally, this small decision that I was making there was that I wanted to please my mom.  And so I would go on occasion. Sometimes I would skip out or go do something else during church and then come back. And so there was some trouble that I got in, there's mischief that I did. And I was not living in any way that was to the standards of the Church. I would occasionally attend the youth meetings for the Church, got some good friends. I shouldn't say friends. They are friends, but one was a particular leader that really helped me. He was a Scout leader and I remember him even asking me, "When are you going to do this more and put more into this?" And I kept telling him, "No, I'm not going there." And so that was one of those decisions that I was like, "No, I don't want to do this." And I would get mad if people would say something about a mission or something like that because it wasn't in my plan. I had no desire to do that.  It was at this point, when I was just about graduating high school, where I had to make some more decisions. And my brothers, I had watched them get into some serious trouble and some really bad situations. And I made the decision that I wanted to get away, I wanted to do everything I could to be the opposite of what I saw. And it was then I made the decision to go to Chicago, at 18 years old, to get away from everything.  And at that point in my life, I was thinking away from everything. Away from church, away from family, I wanted to go do my own thing. By being the mama's boy that I was, my mom made me promise that I will at least try to go to church. So here I am in Chicago by myself, and I went a couple times to a ward that I found. And I was the individual that sat in the back, that wouldn't take the sacrament. And that as soon as it was over, I would run out the back. And I was the person that would complain to my mom, and one of my friends back East that nobody talks to me. But yet I was the one not making any effort at all to talk to anybody else.  And the last time I had gone to that church, I was walking out, and an individual stopped me and he said, "Hey, I've never met you." And I said, "That's okay." I had the East-Coast attitude. And he says, "Who are you? Where are you from?" And we talked for a moment and I said, "Look, I gotta go." He goes, "Hey, I just want to let you know you're going to the wrong ward." I said, "Come on, how many words are in Chicago?" And he gave me the information of the other ward. And I said, "Okay, thanks. I'll see if I can make it." I walked out the door.  And I shared this experience with my mom, and she goes, "You need to promise me you'll try one more time. You need to at least contact this bishop and try one more time, and then I won't bug you anymore about it." I said, "Okay." Now I've got my way, right? I can go do this one more time. It's been the same every single time. And I can move on and not worry about it. And it was here where I called the bishop and he was nice, but I was short. And he gave me directions and it may have been a week or two before actually went. It wasn't like right away.  And so I get in the car and I follow directions. And I got absolutely lost. Here I am in Chicago, lost, no clue where I am. This was before cell phones. So I didn't have any way to call anyone or look anything up. I didn't have a GPS. So I looked at the directions. And I kind of set a prayer off the cuff and just said, "You know, if you want me to go to church, you're gonna have to find this because I don't want to go anymore. I'm done. I have other things I need to do and I don't want to do this anymore." And I looked down at the note and this thought came to me, and again, there's another decision, right? I said a prayer. Whether it was consciously or subconsciously, I wanted his help. But I didn't want it because of my own pride and natural-man self.  And I looked down at the directions. And I just had this thought come to my mind, "What if it's a left instead of a right?" And it wasn't five minutes later, I was parked in the parking lot of the church and I was kind of dumbfounded. I was like, "You got to be kidding me." Here it was at this point where I went, "Well, I made the promise to my mom. I'll do this one time, and then I'm done."  So I walked in and I sat, again, way in the back away from everyone. And I listened and as I sat there, I don't remember who was speaking, I don't remember the hymns that were played, but I remember being scared to death. Because all of a sudden, I felt something that I had never felt before and certainly never that strong, if I ever had felt it. I literally was like, "I don't know what this is," and it scared me. And as soon as they said, "Amen," I ran for those glass doors to get out of that building. I could not run fast enough.  And all of a sudden, this man stops me. He said, "You must be Vinnie." And I looked at him and I said, "What?"And he said, "I'm Bishop Coleman." I mean, here's a bishop that has this whole ward, he knew that I was there and what my name was because he knew every member of his ward. And he knew that he had to run off of that stage to get to me. And he grabbed me and he said, "Come talk to me for a few minutes." And it wasn't long, it was just brief. We sat down in his office and talked for a few minutes. And again, I'm scared to death. I'd never felt this feeling. But I'm looking at this man going, "How on earth did you do this?" And then that's where a series of decisions and choices in my life changed everything. He introduced me to a sweet, sweet lady. She was over the young single adults at that time. And she said, "Come be with us. We have these great single adults here, come upstairs to the classroom." And I said, "No, I cannot do that." And she got my information, I got hers, and I left. And I was like, "I'm not doing this. I can't do this anymore." And I ran away, not wanting to go back, but also deep down realizing something just happened. She was so sweet to reach out to me. And I couldn't say no, because I knew deep down there was something there. And she was a convert from Brazil. And she loves the gospel, absolutely loves the gospel and loves people. And all of her kids were away at college. And she took me in as one of her own boys and taught me and changed my life forever.  So as I was developing a testimony here. I was working in Chicago and also going to school. And in between work and school, I had about an hour of time and I would sit there and I would read the Book of Mormon as I would eat lunch. Here I was going to church and reading the Book of Mormon for the first time ever in my life. And I hung out a lot with these young single adults, they were so much fun.  And I remember one weekend, we were all together, we were playing games, and there were some returning sisters and some return elders that we were with. And they were talking about their mission. They were talking about experiences that they had people that they taught. And I don't know if they'd planned this for me or what, but it worked. Because they didn't pressure me. They didn't ask me about whether or not I was going to serve a mission. They were just being friends. But all of a sudden, it started to stir within me because during this year of being in Chicago by myself, I had began to understand what the Atonement really meant, and what changing your life really meant. And it was here, as I was listening to my friends talk about their mission. And I had this overwhelming feeling that I needed to share what I learned.  And that next day was fast Sunday. I had not born my testimony since probably when I was a young kid. And I got up and I poured my testimony about a desire to serve a mission. It was then that the bishop grabbed me right after again and said, "Oh, we're gonna plan this." Next thing I know, I've got my papers turned in.  When I made that decision to serve a mission, I actually called my dad and told him that I was going to serve. And he had already helped me line up a job that I would have after graduating from college. And he was really disappointed at me. He wanted me to take that job and wanted me to help take care of my mom. And our conversations didn't end the greatest. And I didn't say much to him afterwards. I don't think we talked for over a month. And when I called my mom to tell her it was an interesting conversation too.  When I called my mom and I said, "Mom, I've made a decision." She said, "You're not getting married." I said, "No Mom, I'm not getting married." And she goes, "Well you're not coming home." And I said, "Well, you already knew that." And I said, "But I'm going to go serve a mission." And the phone just went silent. And it felt like it was forever. And then after however long, she said, "Are you sure?" And I had to stand up to my sweet mom and say, "Yeah, I'm sure." And she just couldn't believe it. All those little decisions that I had made along the way, even from a little kid, just wanting to follow my mom and please my mom made a huge difference in my life.  You know, I made that decision that I wanted to leave home and never go back and have something different than what my brothers had and what my brothers' decisions were. My brothers are good guys. And they're trying to do what they feel is right. And I still look up to them in many ways. But I wanted to do something different to do it my way.  Little did I know that my way would turn into the Lord's way and how thankful I am because now I've got the most beautiful wife in the world. I've kept six amazing children that are building testimonies. And we're doing our best to live the gospel.  I think we need to create our own way. And if you truly give your heart to Jesus Christ, and you want to make Christ happy because you've built that relationship with Him, then you make the choices necessary, big or small.  I look forward to that day when I can see Christ and he opens his arms. I know in the scriptures that says he'll say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant." I don't want him to say a word. I just want to fall down and hug him because he made it possible for me to be forgiven. And he made it possible for me to change everything in my life. And now I have a better way of life. KaRyn  17:15   That was Vinnie.  You know, what I love about Vinnie story is that at the outset, it might seem like it's too small to matter. At least that fear is one of the things that Vinnie said initially kept him from deciding to call the pitch line when he first felt the stirring. But friends, do you know what an epic story is? It's nothing more than a collection of tiny moments of decision that build and build and build upon one another until something has to break, something has to transform. And the transformation is only possible because of all those small moments that led up to it.  In the case of Vinnie's story, the transformation is a testament to the Atonement—from reluctant people pleaser and mama's boy to a willing servant— all in the span of a half a lifetime. That is epic and inspiring in its scope.  And what's coming next is worth noting too. Generations starting from those decisions that Vinnie made, will walk toward their own epic story of building and deciding and building and transforming. And that's big, that's really big.  Our final story of decisions that make all the difference comes from Lisa. A quick note, Lisa's story involves an accident that might be difficult for sensitive listeners to hear.  Here's Lisa. Lisa  18:37   I was aware of three things as I struggled back to consciousness. The first of those was there was a significant amount of pain. The second was I was pretty sure that my son Michael had passed away. And I didn't know why I thought that. And the third thing was I was enveloped in an overwhelming, palpable peace.  I opened my eyes and I was in a hospital room and my husband, Dean, and his brother Philip were sitting there in the room with me. And the first thing I asked was, "Did Michael pass away?" I asked my husband and he said that yes, Michael passed away. And my next question was, "Why do I feel such peace?" I was very confused because losing Michael would make sense with me feel, you know, if I felt devastated and, you know, crushed. But peace didn't make any sense to me.  Earlier that day, we had gone to see a melodrama that my sister was in. And the night of the first performance, no one else in my family could go but I went and I came home and just raved about it. She was so cute. And she sold the show and it was hilarious. And so after I told my family about it, my daughter Abby, who was 14 said, "Well, I want to go." And so I said, "Sure. We can go."  Before it was time to go, my son Michael, who had turned, just turned 23, was there and I said, "Michael, you want to come with us?" And he decided he would go with us. So the three of us went to the melodrama. And it was just a nice evening, then it was time to go.  We walked out of the church house. And as we walk to the car, my son said, and this is a line from a Brian Regan sketch, that comedian Brian Regan. He said, "Backseat middle, my feet on the hump." And that was Michael's way of telling Abby that she could sit in the front seat because he knew that she loved it.  So he sat in the back, and we all got in. And our family has always worn seatbelts. Michael did not put on his seatbelt that night. And, you know, I didn't check. He's 23. We just drove off. And we were about a mile away from the church house when I entered an intersection. This is in a residential, it's 25-miles-an-hour. And we were hit by a pickup truck that was being driven by a man who was intoxicated.  The onboard computer said he was going more than 80 miles an hour. He did not tap his brakes and it hit right behind my door. So the door right behind the driver's side door and spun us around. Our car hit a parked truck hard enough that it broke its axle.  And during that, Michael was thrown from the car. He was killed instantly. My last memory is about two blocks before the accident. And then my next memory is five hours later, when I woke up in the hospital. I was in one room in the emergency room. My daughter was in the other. My husband got there and he was like, I don't like, he didn't know where which room he should go in. And he was told that I was unconscious. And that there was a nurse with me. But Abby was awake. So he went in there because that's where he was needed. After a while, he came into my room and I was unconscious. And there was a nurse who was holding my hand and crying. And that is just so tender to me. I don't know who she is. I don't worry about how do not I have any memories of the emergency room.  But she knew what had happened. She was holding my hand and crying with me. And that's just very, that's sacred to me that this good woman, this good nurse—it wasn't all about just the medical, you know, medical procedures. There was some real caring and loving there for these people who had been through this. I was released later that morning. I had a bad concussion. And most of my injuries had to do with wherever the seat belt was holding me holding me back. But things weren't life threatening. I did have a vertebrae that was broken in my neck, but nothing that impacted my spine. You know, that was all fine. Abigail was released the night before. That morning as it got to be morning, my husband started calling our child or other children and my parents and letting them know what had happened. And our children started gathering and that was a real gift to be together to have them there. You know, of course, emotionally, we're pretty fragile. Physically, I was it was months before I didn't have a great deal of pain every day.  At that point, I was walking but not before. Most nights, I'd fall asleep for a while and the pain would wake me up and it was some nerve pain and there isn't good pain medications that help with nerve pain. It was so painful, it was just an agony. So I would just kind of pace the floor and, you know, try to get through it.  And one night in the middle of that, I had the thought, "He did this to you." And it was true. The drunk driver is the one that had caused this pain. You know the pain, the physical pain, but also the emotional pain. And that was immediately followed by, immediately afterwards, the words came into my mind, "There is nothing worthy about that thought." And I knew that dwelling on that thought would take me farther from God. And I desperately needed God. So I just turned away from that thought. And I didn't ever have another thought along those lines. And every few years, the Lord teaches me more about gratitude. And it's a principle that I've really come to love for the blessings that it gives us. And I just kept feeling, I just kept having the recurring thought that during this saddest, most difficult time, you know, that the hardest thing that our family had been through, that I needed to find a way to be grateful, to still praise God and thank him for his blessings.  And, of course, I was continually grateful for the peace. I am well aware that there have been many good, faithful people who have lost a loved one that didn't have immediate peace like that. I don't know why we had that immediate piece. Everyone's path is different. But that was such a gift.  I mean, of course, we're very sad. And, but you, I couldn't, to say we were devastated, is taking it too far. Because that peace didn't allow for devastation. You know, sadness, yes. A great deal of sadness. But we weren't devastated. So of course, I was grateful for that.  I was also grateful to have my family around. I was also very grateful because our ward and neighbors and extended family just rallied around us, you could feel that their prayers were helping you. There was more food here then we could eat, you know, just people were so kind. So of course, it was, I was grateful for those things.  And, but I still kept having the feeling that we needed to find a way to be grateful. And I have always loved hymns. From the time I was a little girl. I remember having spiritual experiences in sacrament meeting as we sing hymns. So it was very natural for me to, you know, as I'm trying to decide, "So how do we do that?" my thought turned to the hymns.  And we're planning a funeral. And try to find some hymns that were praising the Lord. That's, that, that was the thought that I had, so that we should sing hymns of praise during the funeral. We started with, "I Love to See the Temple" because we always sing that song to our family. And Michael loved the temple. So we started with that, that was the opening hymn, was a congregational hymn. And then partway through we sing, "Sing Praise to Him." And because it was my thought that we should sing hymns of praise, I tried to do that while we sang. Um, because I knew it was Michael's time, that his work on the earth was finished, I could sing and mean it. Well, maybe I shouldn't say mean it. Have faith that it was true, even if I didn't know it. "That within the kingdom of his might lo,. all is just, and all is right".  So that's what I tried to do when we, as we sang. I tried to, to praise the Lord, because he had grown to be overwhelming peace and acknowledge that my son's work was done on the earth. And I wasn't worried about where Michael was. I knew where he was.  We sang as a closing hymn, "Press Forward Saints." And I chose that for a couple reasons. It felt like it's the message Michael would want those that he loved to hear, that all of us might press forward with steadfast faith in Christ. And then at the end, it has those three beautiful alleluias at the end of every verse, so we also got to praise the Lord. And it was interesting. Both my family and my husband's family, we all sing. I wish we sang with more gusto in the Church. In that funeral, we did. It was, it was loud. And during that closing hymn, there just came such a feeling of joy into the room. As I thought back on it, I actually think because every death is actually also a homecoming, I think it's my belief that the Lord allowed us to feel some of the joy of his homecoming.  The song ended, we had the closing prayer. And as we walked out, there was just so much joy in the room, I was actually self-consciousness. We walked out behind the casket, everyone's standing, you know, obviously watching the family as they walk out, and I could not wipe the smile off my face. And I was a little self-conscious, they're gonna think I didn't even love him for smiliing as I walk up my son's casket, but there was real joy in that room. I've never felt anything like that, if you know, before, it was just very sweet.  The pain of losing Michael that had been, it had felt like a raw, open wound. which I'd never experienced peace and sorrow like that. At the same time, I thought being at peace meant you're happy, you know, your content. And I learned that wasn't true. But that raw, open wound, it had been very skillfully stitched closed.The pain wasn't over. But real healing had begun. And I know that the Great Physician did stitch that wound closed.  Um, we've continued to mourn. You know, we still miss him. I cried I think pretty much every day for the first year. You know, I miss his smile. He had amazing hugs. And I just want to fill his arms around me, you know, Michael was the happiest baby I have ever had. And Michael has always been very laid back. He loves everyone. He's always loved everyone. And he was also the kind of kid that, as a parent, if I needed him to actually hear what I was saying, I had to grab his face. And say, "Michael, I'm going to ask you to repeat." Now, as an adult. I didn't say that anymore. But you know, growing up, I'm going to ask you to repeat what I tell you. And he, when he was about 14, or 15, I asked him one day I said, "Michael, where are you when I think you're listening to me, but you're not." And he looked really sheepish and he said, "On a medieval battlefield," which was fantastic. I love that. Before we lost Michael, I would have assumed that when you were mourning someone that you lost that petty much all of your crying and mourning would have been in the privacy of your own home. Um, that was my assumption and that is not how it's turned out. It hits you. Sometimes in the middle of Walmart, you know. There have been times when I really struggled to get out the door because something just made me think of Michael. So I'd just really quickly get out the door and go cry in my car. But I have found the majority of my crying and mourning for Michael. Well, the majority of crying about Michael has happened during sacrament meeting and I didn't want to do it during Sacrament meeting. I wanted to be home where it was private. But I'll be honest, some of the tears are just about missing him. But most of the tears have been gratitude for the Savior's Atoning sacrifice, and that he has overcome both physical and spiritual death.  I have all, I've understood intellectually, that our plight would be desperate without the Savior sacrifice for us. But losing Michael has made it very real to me, how desperately hopeless everything would be if it weren't for the Savior, Jesus Christ. The fact that the Savior overcomes death and sin is very concrete and real to me now. I do believe that the small thing I did, of just finding hymns and then trying to express real gratitude as I sang them, I believe that that small thing resulted in a huge amount of healing. KaRyn  34:58   That was Lisa. Every time I hear her story, I'm struck with the gift that she received from the Spirit to let her move past blame into peace. I've never lost a child or even a close loved one at the hand of someone else, but I imagine that is not the way it plays out for everyone in a similar situation. Our hearts are drawn in love and sustaining for those who are struggling right now to make peace with that particular wound.  And I think I learned something powerful about decisions from Lisa's experience. Making the right decision for us, even one guided by the Spirit, does not exempt us from the experiences of the mortal condition. Lisa chose to follow the prompting to let those feelings of blame go and that offered her peace of mind. But it couldn't protect her from her grief. And isn't that exactly why we chose to follow Christ in the first place? It's why we were so desperate to come to earth and have agency, we wanted to experience life. We wanted to experience all of it. And sometimes I think I put too much weight on my decisions, and I turn them into something more than what they actually are.  Making the next best decision matters, but not because it's going to guarantee me some protection from pain or embarrassment or helped me maintain my pride. I mean, I love to be right as much as the next guy, but if I'm making my decisions with the goal of being right, I think I'm skirting a sacred opportunity to get it right instead.  If you're a longtime listener to the podcast, then you probably remember our episode "The Paths We Choose" from season one. It had a really moving story from Chris and Eric, whose decisions had led them down some wandering paths. Their story reminded us that Jesus Christ is the restorer of paths, especially wandering ones, and that through the Atonement, all roads lead us back to him the minute that we turn our hearts in his direction. It's a miracle really. And maybe knowing that makes us wonder why we even try. If Christ can make up the difference of our failures and fix all of our poor choices, why should I spend my energy like so many researchers trying to figure out how to make the best choice? Well, I think the answer to this is in the realization that our decisions matter because they are a tool for proving where our hearts lie and with whom our hearts align.  In the October General Conference, Elder Bednar reminded us that, quote: "Tests in the school of mortality are a vital element of our eternal progression. Interestingly, however, the word 'test' is not found even one time and the scriptural text of the standard works in English. Rather, such words as 'prove,' 'examine,' and 'try' are used to describe various patterns of demonstrating appropriately our spiritual knowledge about understanding of and devotion to our Heavenly Father's eternal plan of happiness, and our capacity to seek for the blessings of the Savior's Atonement. He who authored the plan of salvation described the very purpose of our mortal probation using the words 'prove,' 'examine' and 'try' in ancient and modern scripture. 'And we will prove them herewith to see if they will do all things whatsoever the LORD their God shall command to them." End quote.  Making decisions, having a choice to make, that's all part of this glorious plan of salvation that we signed up for. We chose it. It's an opportunity to show God here on this imperfect and flawed earth with our imperfect and flawed brains and wills, that we choose him again, and again, and again. And while our decisions don't determine our divinity, they do determine our eternal destiny, which is to find ourselves on the right hand of our Savior, Jesus Christ.  So we pour our hearts into the work of making the next best decision, to say that prayer and try one more time to find the church in Chicago even though it would be easier to just go home. Or to hand over our feelings of anger and blame to the Savior instead of letting them fester in our hearts. We pour over those decisions because they have the power to move us one step closer to that destiny, and we're going to mess up. We'll allow those good decisions to build us up in pride sometimes, and maybe we'll unrighteously judge another person for the decisions that they're laboring with. But ultimately, if we choose to recognize that our decisions are a proving ground, think of it like a series of teeny tiny pop quizzes that will lead to our epic transformation through Christ. We can worry less, and love more, and try again tomorrow. That's it for this episode of "This Is the Gospel." Thank you to our storytellers Vinnie and Lisa for sharing their stories and their decisions with us. We'll have a link to Elder Bednar's talk, as well as more information about both of our storytellers in our show notes at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. You can also get more good stuff throughout the week by following us on Instagram or Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast.  All of the stories on this podcast are true and accurate, as affirmed by our storytellers. And of course, if you have a story to share about living the Gospel of Jesus Christ and deciding to follow Him, please call our pitch line and leave us a story pitch. The best pitches are going to be short and sweet and have a clear sense of the focus of your story. Call 515-519-6179 to leave us a message.  If today's stories have touched you or made you think about your discipleship just a little more deeply, will you share that with us? You can leave a review of the podcast on Apple, Stitcher, or whatever platform you listen on. And if you can't figure out how to leave a review, which I totally get, you can go to our Instagram page in the highlights for some tips. Every review of this podcast helps us to show up for more people who are looking for good things to listen to.  This episode was produced by me, KaRyn Lay, with editing and story production help from Erika Free. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at Six Studios. Our executive producer is as always Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast, including that episode from season one that we mentioned, "The Paths We Choose," and other LDS Living podcasts at ldsliving.com/podcasts. Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: Brothers Charlie and Sam start a trek up Mt. Kilimanjaro only to find that the steepest trail ahead lies in their conversations along the way; An important spiritual lesson on-stage leads Broadway performer Sandra to the surprising truth about her most challenging role off-stage. Show Notes:  To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel Transcript:  KaRyn  0:03  Welcome to “This Is the Gospel” an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith everyday. I'm your host KaRyn Lay. Our theme today comes from an oft-repeated phrase, "What ere thou art, act well thy part," which has made its way into Latter-day Saint cultural consciousness in really interesting ways over the years, like its cousin, "I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it," this phrase is often misattributed. Sometimes it's attributed to the scriptures, sometimes to Shakespeare, and sometimes to the Prophet David O McKay. But it's none of these things really. Nobody really knows where it came from. It was the life motto of President McKay, but that's because he first spotted the saying engraved on a stone in Scotland, where he was a discouraged missionary. The saying brought him comfort, and it helped him to buck up and jump back into the work of gathering Israel with his whole heart. And since then, he has shared it with all of us. And it has come to mean a lot of things to a lot of people in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.   In fact, many years later, it became a touchstone for Sister Elaine Dalton's ministry, as the General President of the Young Women's organization. And if you are old enough to listen to conference in 2013, you might actually remember her very last talk before she was released. She talked about how this phrase sustained her during a time of deep discouragement. But why? What is it about acting well our part that captures our imagination and buoys us up in the face of disruption or challenge? Well, in today's episode, we have two stories from three people who found out what Shakespeare, or Shakespeare's brothers cousin, or whoever it was, who wrote that, what they already knew, when they carved that phrase into the rock. Our first story comes from two brothers who faced a steep mountain both literally and figuratively, and came down the other side with a clear sense of their part in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We'll start with Charlie, and then you'll hear from Sam as the story develops. Here's Charlie and Sam.   Charlie Bird  2:08  So the first thing I remember thinking was, "Is this real life?" Because I'm looking at this mountain above me. And honestly, I couldn't really see much. It was just like a jungle with trees and vines, and it was just going higher and higher. And then it was just lost in the clouds. And I couldn't believe that I was actually at the base of Mount Kilimanjaro. If you know anything about my family, it's that we're kind of extreme and we love physical challenges. I'm there with my dad and my little brother, Sam, and my sister, Hannah. What we decided to do for this Kilimanjaro summit was try to do an unassisted hike. So most of the time, when you're hiking the mountain, you have like porters to carry your food and your water. But we wanted to go unassisted, which means we had everything with us just on our own backs. So I hoist this bag onto my shoulders, and I was like, "Oh my gosh." This is like the first moment that it's actually hitting me that I have to take this bag to the top of the tallest freestanding mountain in the world.   We go to weigh it in, and I can't remember exactly how many kilograms it was, but I did – it was like 30 kilograms, which is roughly 65 pounds. And I'm looking at my brother Sam, and we're like, "Are we cool? . . . Or are we crazy?" And looking back, I think it was a little bit of both. And honestly, all the park rangers there thought we were definitely crazy. For about two years before that I'd become a really avid hiker around Utah. And so I would do Timpanogos on the weekends with friends just for like fun and Angels Landing was a breeze and I was hiking all over the Wasatch Front and all over southern Utah. And I felt pretty good. But about 20 minutes into this hike – Kilimanjaro with 65 pounds on my back – I realized this was not going to be like any hike I'd ever done before.   One of the most incredible things that I noticed immediately was the environment, my surroundings. I've never seen so much foliage and animals, there was monkeys jumping through the trees, the landscape was just so beautiful. And there was these mossy vines that were hanging over this dirt path, the light was coming in, in like filtered scattered bursts illuminating the floor and there were flowers on the jungle floor. This is, this is the kind of trip that you know, everyone wants to go on but I was actually living it. I was like, "I cannot believe I'm doing this." And even better, with some of the people who I loved the most.   A couple hours into the start of our hike, we're just climbing. Elevation is steep and me and my little brother Sam are just moving out. For some reason. We were just feeling good. I think we were just excited to be there. We kind of got ahead of the rest of the pack. And for a while it was just me and Sam on the trail. And it was so interesting to look over at him. And notice that, you know, he'd always been my little brother. He's five and a half years younger. It was always kind of like – he was just little, you know? But now I'm looking at him and he's the same height as me and our strides are matching and I was like, "Dang, my little brother's like – a man." You know, I'm protective of him. I've always been like a caretaker of sorts to him, but now he was an equal and that that was kind of the moment I realized that he was an equal as we're moving out on this trail.   Sam Bird  5:18  Charlie and I had always been close. He had always been my best friend, my older brother, five years older than me. So I've always looked up to him, really in everything. Just the way he's been able to interact with people. He – we always said that Charlie is so skilled and talented in so many different fields that, that he could literally do anything. And I wanted to be like that. And he coached me through a lot of things and taught me a lot of things. And I was just happy to be with him.   Charlie Bird  5:46  You know, sometimes I wish there was a word that conveyed something stronger than brother, because that's how I've always felt with Sam. Growing up, we shared a room, and we basically shared everything. We played basketball – he's a basketball star – I honestly can't remember a single time I've ever lost a pickup game at the Rec Center, when Sam's on your team, like you want Sam on your team. And we just loved adventure. And we would explore and we would sing together and try to cook together and stay up late every night talking just about our lives and what we wanted to do and our big dreams. And then now as adults, we share the same clothes and we bought the same type of car. And just everything we did, we were we were essentially like twins.   And so sometimes using the word "Brother" to describe Sam doesn't seem like it's full enough – that it's meaningful enough, because our relationship was just, was just so deep. But there was one really important part of me that Sam didn't know anything about. And as we're walking up this mountain, and I realize that he's no longer just a little brother, that he's my equal, I'm realizing that I was hiding something really important from him. The fact that I'm gay.   At this point in time, I was putting so much emotional and mental and spiritual energy into trying to figure myself out and figure out how to reconcile my faith with my orientation. And so much of my life was devoted to that. And he didn't know anything about that. And I felt that  – it almost felt like a physical barrier to our relationship. I get asked quite often, "Why do you have to come out? Like, straight people don't have to come out." And in a way, I think that's kind of the point, like, the assumption is that everyone is straight. And so everyone – at this point in time – was assuming that I was straight. And to be completely honest, for a little bit, I liked that. Because for a long time, I wanted to be straight, so bad, I really wanted to fit in. And so when people assumed I was straight, I felt like I didn't have to work so hard to prove my worth. And the paranoia of someone thinking that I was gay, would go away.   But as I became more accepting of myself, and as I started praying about the nature of my orientation, and feeling like I needed to accept it and stop trying to change, everyone else thinking I was straight got really awkward. Because – because I'm gay. And people were like, either always trying to set me up on dates with girls, or talking about my future wife and my future family. And I just felt so weird about it. And especially with Sam. I mean, we're brothers. So like, we talk about girls. And like, that was a big part of our relationship. And it was a part that I had faked my entire life. I just felt so insincere and, and awkward hiding this part of me. So there I am, on what I consider to be like one of the most exciting, beautiful, like vacation, trip, adventures of my life, and now we're three hours into the hike and I'm having this existential crisis. Because I'm like, "Sam doesn't know I'm gay. And no one knows I'm gay." Well, actually, at that point, my sisters and my cousin knew and that was it. And I was like, "I'm living a lie."   And I was trying – really what I was trying to do was just like, be mindful and be in the moment. So instead of like focusing on all of this, like anxiousness and worry, I just start thinking about the trees. Like, "I'm going to focus so much on the beauty of this landscape, that it's just going to push this out, and I can shelf it until I can figure out what to do with it." And so I'm looking at the trees and, and I'm, I'm an artistic soul, and I have a real soft spot for nature and for beauty and for beautiful things. So I'm just trying to focus all of that energy into that side of my personality so I can forget about that I can't tell Sam I'm gay.   And the reason I felt like I couldn't tell him is because I cared about him so much. And I was so, so terrified of any potential rejection. I mean, this is, this is my brother, like, he's an extension of me and, and his role in my life is paramount. And the thought of changing that relationship, or making it weird or divisive, or polarizing or just even different, filled me with such incredible fear. It was crippling. And, you know, on top of that, I'd always kind of been his mentor, you know. I, I was the older brother, he would come to me for advice and with questions, especially spiritual questions. And I – this recurring thought I keep having was, "Is he still gonna trust me if he knows I'm gay? And how am I supposed to teach him anything about life or religion or faith? When I myself am incredibly confused? like, how is he going to trust me?" The weight of that potential rejection was so heavy, and it weighed so heavy on my soul, like it was heavier than my backpack, which by the way, was incredibly heavy, if I can remind everyone it was 65 pounds. I just, I didn't know what to do.   As we're walking, we're sweating. We're breathing heavy. And it's been probably 35 – 45 minutes, where I'm just focusing on the trees, you know? And he's like, "What are you thinking about?" And I was like, "Uh oh, he caught me off guard. I wasn't expecting it." So I just kind of went along with what I was trying to do, which looking back, it was silly, but I was like, "Oh, you know, just like the trees." And so I start describing what I was trying to see in the trees. And, and you know, which is true, like, my goodness, they were beautiful. But I'm trying too hard.   Sam Bird  11:59  Everything was normal. And then all of a sudden, Charlie started talking about the trees, but like, in a really weird way. I know, Charlie, and I know he loves trees, right? And I know Charlie always loves to talk about like, the elements and everything working in sync, and blah, blah, blah. But at this point, I'm like, "Alright, Bro, I get it. The trees are nice." It's like, this is 45 minutes of us talking about trees right now. So I'm done. I'm like, "Okay, what is actually going on?"   Charlie Bird  12:29  And he's like, "Dude, like, why are you being weird? What's actually up? Because I can tell there's something up." And I got the coming out feeling. So, it's funny, people ask me a lot like, "What does it feel like to come out?" And I think coming out is one of the most courageous things anyone can do. Because it's scary, you know, like that potential rejection is a really hard thing to face, especially with someone you care about. And I compare the coming out feeling to the way someone might feel if they had to speak unprepared in front of a group of like, 100,000 people. Or, in fact, the closest thing I've ever got to it is the feeling of when the spirits telling you that you need to bear your testimony on a fast Sunday, but magnified by like, some exponential amount, because it's just so – like, it's like this release that has to happen, and you know, you have to do it. But no part of you wants to stand up and walk to the pulpit. And you're not sure that your legs will support you or you don't know if you're going to pass out or throw up.   So here I am taking that walk to the pulpit, as I'm about to speak and tell my brother that I'm gay. And I started hyperventilating. Which, it's so funny because like, I'm an athlete, and I am a gymnast, and I'm always so in control of my body and my body's reactions to things. And I started breathing so heavy and I was like, like verging on a panic attack hyperventilating, I was so nervous to tell him. And he – I remember he made this joke, he was like, "Well, for being the world's greatest mascot, you're sure not in very good shape." And he's like, taunting me because he's like, "Haha, I'm in better shape than you." And then I was like, I actually couldn't breathe. And so I got it out, I muttered out, "It's not the mountain," Between like – honestly it was like "It's . . . not. . . the. . .mountain." And I remember his face changed, like his, his brows knit together, and he got really concerned and he was like, "Oh, like, are you okay?" And he's like, afraid I'm actually going to pass out because I probably was about to. And he was like, "Hey, there's a fallen log right over there. Give me your bag, I'll take it over there and we can rest for a while and get get some food. I have a Snickers bar, you should eat it." And I'm watching my brother just have so much love for me. I was like I have to tell him. He says "If it's not the mountain, what is it?" I said "Sam," and I waited for a while. I said, "I'm gay. He said, " . . . what?"  And I said, "I'm not attracted to girls." Like I kind of defined it for him. I wanted him to understand what I was saying. I said, "I'm gay, Sam. I'm attracted to guys."   Sam Bird  15:23  At first, I thought it might have been a joke. Because I was confused. I thought Charlie was straight, totally 100% straight. So I was kind of trying to figure out how he could be gay. Because in my mind, it wasn't an option. My mind directed to just, "Okay, then what about this girlfriend? Or what about whenever you told me this or that?"   Charlie Bird  15:47  And honestly, at this point, I still wasn't sure how this conversation was going. I was like, "Is this a successful coming out or not? Because we haven't really gotten anywhere." And he was just confused.   Sam Bird  15:58  And I started asking him questions, and I asked him, I was like, "Isn't it a choice to be gay? Like, why'd you choose this?" I remember him telling me "Why would I choose this? You don't think – " and he went off on like a rant, and it was emotional. He said, "You don't think I want to get married in the temples Sam? You don't think I want all these things – that we all want?" The blow that hit me the hardest was whenever he said that he went on a mission – he served a mission, hoping that if he served well, and if he served perfectly as he said, God would take his "gayness" away from him. And that's when it really clicked for me, that he didn't choose it. Being gay is not a choice. There's so much more than what meets the eye.   And I felt horrible. I felt horrible, because I had said a lot of things very, like derogatory things about gay people. So I apologized for all the things I told him, all the things I'd said, just all my misconceptions. It was tough. I still didn't really know what to do. So I said, "But what are you gonna do? Cause I don't know what to do so like, what are you gonna do?" And when I asked him what he was gonna do, I meant it in a way of like – a futuristic way, as in like, "Okay, what are you gonna do with your life and with everything that we've been taught, and everything that we know, inside the church, even outside the church, like social norms?" So the question I asked was probably kind of a tough question to answer. And it was, and he just said, "I don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna do." And whenever someone you love, so much, doesn't know what to do. I think in any circumstance, it's hard. And so I just told him like, "Bro, I don't care what you do. Like, I'm gonna be here for you, I love you. You're my older brother. We're tight. We're, we're cut from the same cloth, nothing will change. Nothing will change between our relationship." It was an emotional moment, like we embraced. We started crying.   Charlie Bird  18:07  He explained to me that, like he had so much faith and love for me. And that whatever I chose, he knew would be the right thing for me, and that he would support me no matter what. And at this point, I'm speechless. Because I don't think there could have been possibly a better reaction. I'm coming to him with this this huge, weight. Something I was so nervous to tell him. And he said, "I love you. And I trust you." And those were my two biggest fears – that his love for me would change, and that he wouldn't trust me. And I know he was inspired to say that.   Sam Bird  18:49  So we sat on this log, we shared a Snickers bar and we just talked. And I told him I'm sorry. That's mostly what happened – was me just apologizing. Maybe for 30 minutes. I just told him I was sorry. He, you know, he forgave me really quickly said, "It's okay. You didn't know, you didn't know." But I still felt bad. I'm like, "Yeah, but . . . " The worst part was that he couldn't trust me to tell me before, when it was harder. And that's important. I'm glad he came out to me whenever he felt like he was comfortable to, but I wished I could have done something before to make him feel comfortable.   Charlie Bird  19:27  So about 20 minutes later, we're sitting on that same mossy log, and my dad and my little sister and the trail guide came up and caught up to us. Honestly, they were kind of mad. They were like, "Where have you been?" And we're like, lost in Africa, you know? And we're like, "Oh, we were just feeling it." And it was just so funny to know that me and Sam were the only ones who knew that we just had this incredible spiritual bonding experience. And my dad and my sister Hannah are like, "You're so annoying. You think like, what are you trying to prove?" And we were joking with them and we're like, "Dad, you're just, you're just mad because we're so much faster than you, you old man." And you know, Sam's words were still ringing in my head when he said, "This doesn't change anything." And I was like, "Oh my gosh, nothing changed. This feels normal." But at the same time, everything changed, because now all this weight that I was carrying up this mountain emotionally, is gone. And now we can just focus on the physical weight. How great is that? Like, that's the reason I'm here in the first place. I love a physical challenge.   And the rest of the mountain, we just hiked it with this vibrance, and this tenacity. We descended through these beautiful valleys and we walked through these fields of broken obsidian. And I was just feeling so good. And I'm kind of a peacock, and I like to show off. And so a couple of times, we'd catch up to hikers that had been doing it for days. And we – we'd you know been, we'd been skipping campsites because we just felt so good. All four of us. And I would take off my bag and I'd be like, "Hey, Dad, take a picture of me doing a backflip." Just so all the hikers could watch me do a backflip on this ledge. This I mean, like ledges that look over the earth, the whole world just fields of endless clouds.   And at night, it was so cold, the sun would go down, it was just freezing. And me and Sam were sharing a little two person tent. So we would just like get as close as possible and try to sleep. But we didn't have mattress pads or anything because it was so minimalist. You know, we took only like bare necessities. And so these rocks are cutting into our ribs and we can't sleep. So we just talked. And I was honest with him. And I noticed that as I was vulnerable and opened up, he was sharing things with me, too. Things that he'd been struggling with or dealing with or trying to figure out that he'd never really felt able to, to bring to the surface. And the love we had for each other was like gilded in a way. Because we just got so much closer.   On the morning of the fourth day – maybe it was the third day – it wasn't very many days, that's all I know, it's kind of all a blur. But we woke up at two in the morning. And after we'd been at base camp and we took the the final summit to the top of the mountain, the four of us together and it was cold and it was windy and like probably 1000 times I wanted to stop and turn back because it was just so cold. But there was no way we were going to risk missing sunrise at the top of this mountain after we worked so hard to get there. And we're waiting up there, it's it was negative three degrees Celsius. I'm not sure the conversion for that, I'm only good at kilograms. But uh, we're waiting up there shivering next to each other. And we watched the sunrise from the summit of the tallest freestanding mountain in the world. And it illuminated the glaciers and it casts beautiful pink and blue hues. And it was one of the – if not the most magical moment of my life. And I got to share it with the people I love the most.   This Kilimanjaro trip, we talk about it so much for so many reasons. You know, we got up and down in four and a half days, which was unprecedented. Honestly, we got down so fast, because we ran out of food and we were just starving. So from the summit, we just went all the way back down and just did like, I don't know, like 16 to 20 hours of like straight hiking on the way down. And in this trip for Sam and, Hannah and my dad and me, it's become like, almost a legend, you know, some sort of fable that we just love to recount and tell stories. And, "Remember when we did this . . . " and it just, we just really loved this trip. But out of everything that happened for me, and I think for Sam too, the most beautiful thing was that moment where where I came out to him. And he met me in such a wonderful, perfect way for the situation.   Sam Bird  24:03  I never really knew how important the Kilimanjaro trip was to Charlie until he published the book, until he published Without the Mask. And I'm just happy that we're so much closer now. Like now I can tell Charlie anything. And he'd love me anyway. And vice versa. He could tell me anything, and I'd love him anyway. And so we know that. And that trust that we've developed in large part because he came out to me has absolutely strengthened our relationship.   Charlie Bird  24:37  For a really long time I was acting a part that was never my part to act. It was a role. It was it was fake. But when he saw me for who I am, it helped me connect with who I am. And it solidified all the real parts of our relationship. And it kind of made all of that fakeness and that triviality – was gone. It just felt so much more real.   Sam Bird  25:03  He was made for this. I think, I think that he was made to be a leader in this, like this movement of just equality and seeing everyone as Christ would see them. So even a hater who DM's him on Instagram, he tries to see them as Christ would see them, Because that's what he hopes from them, which I've, I couldn't do it, I couldn't do it. I would want to throw hands, I would want to find somebody, I would want to say, "Don't you call my brother that! I'll. . . Ahh!!" But he just responds every time, "Sam, I will not fight hate with hate." The perspective shifts that has been that he has instilled in me has been monumental just for my ability to see people the way God sees them, and the way I should see them. And the way someone should treat someone.   To act well my part, I first need to know my part. And I think that if each person did that we could create change within our families, our communities. And that's why I'm so proud of Charlie, because within our family and our community, it has happened. And the difference has meant everything – I know it's meant everything to him, and because it has meant everything to him, it means everything to me.   Charlie Bird  26:22  When I think about the way that Sam interacted with me, in that moment, one of my most vulnerable, courageous moments, I can't help but think that that's exactly how the Savior would have acted. I believe that he would have shown love, and that he would have shown trust, and that he would have been able to do that same thing and read who I am and what I needed. And it was so beautiful to see the Savior – my Savior – Jesus Christ, emulated in my brother. And I feel like I've learned a lot about how to be Christlike, and how to actually love a human, because of the way that Sam was able to act well his part.   KaRyn  27:17  That was Sam and Charlie Bird. You may recognize Charlie's name from the years that he was celebrated as the BYU mascot Cosmo. And as Sam mentioned, Charlie wrote a book about his time as Cosmo and what it was like to come out to the world in such a public way, and why it was so important to his faith that he do it. The book is called Without the Mask: Coming out and coming into God's light. And that's where we first found the story. But like any good story, there was so much more to it. And we were really happy to be able to share both Charlie and Sam's experiences, I can feel the love that they have for one another, and even more than that I can feel the love that they have for Christ. And that love is what fuels their desire to follow him in whatever role they are asked to play.   In this story, in this moment in time, playing their part will looked different for each of them. For Charlie, stepping into his role meant bringing honesty and vulnerability and a willingness to trust his spiritual promptings to the stage. But for Sam playing it well looked like listening, offering generosity of heart and apologizing. Their roles, their part in the play of life will most likely be reversed at some point. I mean, that's true for all of us. We never step into the same stream twice. But if like Sam and Charlie, we lean into the attributes of Christ that we are so desperately trying to take on ourselves, we'll be able to show up for whatever role is next in our life with confidence. And our final story comes from Sandra, whose time on a big fancy stage prepared her well for a season of life with very little to no fanfare. Here's Sandra.   Sandra Turley  28:59  Our youngest daughter is absolute sweet and sour. She is sickeningly sweet, sometimes, actually, most of the time she's sickeningly sweet, where I feel like there's nobody more angelic than she. There just is not. The cuddles and the loves and the squeezes and the love notes are overwhelmingly loving and gorgeous. And then she comes out with these shockingly sour moments where she's just screaming because she's the youngest of four, and we have trained her to think she's the queen of the world, and that she should get everything that she wants at the moment she wants it.   So a few weeks ago, I was asking her for the millionth time – okay, fine, to be fair, probably the 14th time – to sit down and just finish her lunch. Just finish the lunch. It's been sitting there for an hour, please just finish her lunch. I leave the room I come back in, she's nowhere to be found. In fact, she's outside jumping on the trampoline. So I go outside, try to stay calm, bring her inside, and she knows what's gonna happen, because this is not a one time occurrence. We come inside and I put away her lunch and I take her upstairs and I say, "I'm sorry, you missed lunchtime, time to go take a break." And she starts kicking and screaming that she's starving, and what am I doing to her? If I don't let her eat lunch, she's probably gonna die. She's telling as she's screaming this. And so while she's screaming, I start screaming, "I can't do this anymore! You never listen to me. You really, you have to stop screaming. Right now!" Is what I'm yelling to her. "Please stop screaming" is what I'm yelling, ah. And here is the moment that I find I'm in constantly.   This is a repeat performance for the two of us. And I see a pattern that I am desperately trying to break. The pattern is, I get triggered by a single moment, then I have one initial thought from that moment. And shortly it turns into an avalanche of self loathing, where I completely closed myself off to everything else and figure that I'm the worst person in the world. Meaning in this instance, my first thought, as I shut the door and left her screaming in her room was, "You, Sandra, are so horrible for yelling at her." And then that one thought avalanches into all of these horrible thoughts that I'm a horrible mom, I need to control my temper, "Why can't you just let her be seven? She's going to be scarred for life. You haven't taught her right, it's your fault, not hers, you're never going to get better at this." And then the worst thought of that avalanche becomes, "This is because of your voice." My voice that God gave me, that I have used as a singer and a performer on stage. I've used it to actually bless thousands of people's lives in ways that I could share somewhat of His spirit, is also the same voice that I just used to crush my little daughter's heart.   So in 2003, I was performing on Broadway in Les Miserables. I was performing the role of Cosette, the daughter of Jean Valjean, the main character.  And the whole story is just gorgeous. The whole story is about this man, Jean Valjean his redemption in life and each night, as I was performing in the show, adding my voice to the voices of all the other characters on stage, I was not amiss to the fact that we were sharing the concepts of mercy, and justice and sacrifice and charity. And I heard at the end of every single show, as my character Cosette was down at the very front of the stage, I could hear the sound that was my favorite to hear, which was the passing of the tissue packages from audience member to audience member and the sniffles. Because to me that small little sound meant that lives were being changed. hearts were being touched. Maybe they were thinking, "I should have more mercy or for that person in my life, or maybe for myself." So there's no doubt in my mind that God was in the work that I was doing on stage. No doubt at all. God's spirit was there. Whatever anybody else wanted to call it. I called it the Spirit, the Holy Ghost. That's what I was feeling every night.   I also felt that just as much offstage as I did onstage with maybe a touch more nerves offstage than on because offstage, God was with me as all of my friends, all the cast members and crew members were every single day barraging me with questions about my faith. And that brought probably more nerves than singing a pretty little song in front of 1600 people up on the big stage. Questions just came at me mostly about how young I was. I was just 22 - 23 years old when I was performing. And every day it was like, "Why are you married already? That's weird. How could you have chosen somebody to be with already?" "Why don't you come out with us to party and drink?" "What's the big deal about your underwear?" "Tell me about Joseph Smith." "I want to know about temples." "Can you please explain this polygamy thing?" And, "Are you even Christian?" That was always the one that just that was a gut punch to me. If I hadn't acted in a way that people knew, without a doubt that I was Christian, then I was going to answer that one as clearly as could be.   My whole hope, in these conversations and friendships backstage, was to love the way that Christ has asked me to love. That everyone would somehow know that I would never judge them. And that rather I loved each of them so fiercely. There wasn't a day that I wondered whether I was doing this thing, right or not. This whole Christian thing, and trying to love all the people around me.   But one night, in particular, I was on stage, it was the very end of the show. And there was a man who was playing the role of Jean Valjean. And it happened to be his last night performing that role before he was going to move on to another show. And as I sat at his feet, as his character was dying at the end of the show, and I was his daughter, weeping, literally at his feet. And I couldn't help but think about my relationship with this man, not the character, but with this man. Who was a friend of mine, and who I loved, and who had had so many questions. Who had wondered, honestly, about my faith. And I wept at his feet – not as the character – but as Sandra, wondering, have I done enough? Did I say enough? Did I say the right words at the right time? Did I answer correctly? Did I speak your truth, God? Even regardless of all that, did I love this man enough? And as I wept, I just felt the words, "Well done." I felt them deeply and truly in my heart, and then I wept some more. And it's a dang good thing that my character was supposed to be crying right at that moment. Because I did, I just cried, and I felt God saying, "You're doing it. You're doing it just, just right, Sandra. Good job."   So as I come back, and try to apply a moment like that, to the life that I'm in now, about 17 years later, I'm home, I've got four kids that are not applauding me every day. Like the applause that I receive when I'm onstage. I've got an awesome husband, who shockingly, doesn't ask for my autograph at the end of every day that I perform. And I don't even take a bow after I fold a load of laundry.   But here's the deal. As I'm home with these great kids during this wild pandemic, and virtually homeschooling four kids, and I've got this hard working husband in the makeshift basement office, I think I'm starting to figure out how to break this pattern of having one thought of my own in between my own two ears, that triggers and turns into an avalanche of self-loathing thoughts. Maybe the past six years of my life has been a journey to find some self-healing. From some, you know, mental heartache. I don't know if that's even a term "mental heartache." That's two different organs in the body. But it kind of goes together.   I think that as I've been trying to study all the different ways that I can find more mental balance from depression, anxiety, and keep my body as healthy as possible. I feel like right now, I'm trying to put all of the pieces together that I've studied. And now maybe, just finally, even though God has been a part of that whole process, maybe just now I'm actually really engaging him and saying, "I've done all this work. You've guided me to all of these thoughts in this work to heal myself. And maybe I've left you out of the biggest part, which is to turn to you immediately. The second, something happens that causes me to doubt myself." This is, this is this is the real stuff, because this is this is where I'm living right now. This is that space of, "Dang it, I did it again. Here I go. Here's that first thought.” And I know if I let my brain run free right now, and don't engage with the heavens and don't call God to be with me right now, then I'm going to be in the dumps for the next few days. I am going to fuel my mind with such negative talk about myself. And that's going to be harder to get out of that side.   So what I'm trying to do is try to stop it right at that first thought, and say, "Okay, you've had your time, first thought, you can tell yourself, Sandra that 'You're being ridiculous and naughty, and you shouldn't have done that.' And that's fine. And now let's move forward. Let's invite God into these thoughts in your mind, let's invite the heavens to be part of this process, instead of trying to do this on your own."   What have I finally learned . . . I still yell at my kids. But just last week, I was sitting at our dining room table. It was at the end of a really, really long day of virtual learning gone wrong. It was a day where every child took their turn at a massive breakdown. And all of us wondering, "How on earth is this gonna work? How are we, as a family unit, going to make this pandemic work to our benefit?" And not, maybe not to our benefit, just kind of survive it on a day to day basis. How are we going to deal with the technological problems and the learning problems and teachers over Zoom, and four kids sitting around one table with headphones on, and each of them yelling at each other to be quiet when somebody does something that disrupts their, their thinking.   But at nine o'clock at night, at the end of a long day like that, it was amazing to take a breath for a second, and I looked up, got out of my own brain for a moment. And I saw my oldest daughter, helping our son with his math homework, which he desperately needed help with. I saw our third child walk in with a huge smile on her face, because she had just voluntarily folded the laundry that I had left for probably a week. I heard my husband upstairs telling a bedtime story to our sweet and sour seven year old to try to get her to go to sleep. And as I paused and I soaked in everything that I could see and hear in that moment, I felt again, a really, really soft and quiet. "Well done." We were gonna be able to do this together. And "Well done" at that moment wasn't, "Well done, you've shared the light of Christ with someone who may otherwise not have had it," it was, "Well done. You're living in the light of Christ, in your home with your husband and children who know Christ and love him and are learning more of him. And you're doing it right. You're doing this well." And that's all he ever asks of me, was just to give my best effort.   KaRyn  43:17  That was Sandra Turley. I have been blessed to love and adore Sandra for years now. And one of the things I admire most about her is her unexpected realness. And I say unexpected on purpose, because she knows how to be polished. She knows how to walk on a stage and show the world something beautiful, but her desire to walk on that same stage and show the world real beauty – her testimony of the healing gifts of a God who values progress over performance? That is a true act of discipleship. And what about that laundry, and those kids who refuse to applaud when the mountain on the couch is conquered? Like Sandra knows all too well. There are so many tough roles that will play in our lives that will go absolutely unnoticed by mere mortals. And while we're waiting in the wings for a chance to be seen, we can stop and take the breath and look around and listen. And we'll discover that those moments are not lost to Him who sees all.   The first time I heard the phrase "Act well, the part" was at my very first Youth Conference in Redding, Pennsylvania. The entire conference was centered around a stage play that we were writing and acting during the long-ish weekend, and I was in heaven. Not only because my youth group leader was a very cute 17 year old boy, but also because acting felt like my life's calling at 14. I walked away from that conference with a serious crush on said youth group leader and a basic understanding that to act well one's part, one had to commit fully to the gospel of Jesus Christ in word and in deed. And that stuck with me, although my understanding of it has evolved over the years. At first, as someone obsessed with theater I saw acting well as an outward expression. It was being seen doing the right things at the right time or not doing things so that others would know that I was a good member of the Church. Acting well was a performance directed towards other people. And then as I grew in my desire to be more connected to Christ, acting well became a pursuit, it was still a kind of outward performance, but it was now directed at a different audience.   I wanted the Savior to see my good works, and give me his approval. And I don't think either of these efforts were bad, they led me forward. In most cases. I'll admit that sometimes the approval seeking part of my performance got in the way of actual connection to Christ and His gospel, especially when it faded into perfectionism. But overall, they were both really important phases in my spiritual growth. However, these days, I find myself more drawn to the first part of that phrase, than the last part. "What ere thou art, act well thy part." "What ere thou art –"  what are you? Figure that out first, commit to that. Commit to our role as a beloved child of Heavenly Parents, a follower of Jesus Christ, and a disciple in the work of gathering. Then the acting well comes easily because now it's an act of integrity. It's a deeper promise to be who you are supposed to be, regardless of external influence. It's an inward devotion, a quiet reconciliation with your divinity that leads to a powerful outward expression of God's love for all his children. And it's no longer simply performative.   It's now authentic discipleship. And it expresses itself in the moments that we breathe in, and let God tell us that we've loved enough. Or when we step back from our own biases to meet our brother exactly where he is on his upward hike, or when we finally decide to take off the mask we've relied on for so long, and allow others to be a witness to our deepest vulnerability. I think that's why this phrase is so compelling to us, as disciples of Christ. Why it's stuck around for so many years since President McKay brought it on the scene, because it's an invitation for us to learn what we are, and to understand who's we are, who we belong to, so that we'll know what we do, and why we do it. That acting out of integrity, that changes everything. It makes doing it well or acting our part well the result and not the goal. And that's something that will give us strength and power in the most challenging times.   That's it for this episode of This Is the Gospel. Thank you to our storytellers, Sandra, Sam, and Charlie for sharing their stories and their true selves with us. We'll have a link to Charlie's book Without the Mask as well as links to both Sister Dalton's talk, which I re-read and love, and a cool little write up of President McKay's discovery of and love for this saying in our show notes at LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel. You can also get more good stuff by following us on Instagram or Facebook at This Is the Gospel_podcast.   All of the stories on this episode are true and accurate, as affirmed by our storytellers. And of course, if you have a story to share about living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, please call our pitch line and leave us a story pitch. The best pitches will be short and sweet. But they'll also have a clear sense of the focus of your story call 515-519-6179 to leave us a message.   If today's stories have touched you or made you think about your discipleship a little bit more deeply. Please share that with us. You can leave a review of the podcast on Apple, Stitcher, or whatever platform you listen on. And if you can't figure out how to leave us a review, which I totally get. They don't call me “Grandma KaRyn” for nothing. Check out our highlight on our Instagram page for some tips. Every review helps the podcast show up for more people who are looking for something to help them stay close to the source of all good things during the week. This episode was produced by me KaRyn Lay with editing and story production help from Erika free. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at Six studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at LDS living.com/podcasts.     Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: Finding the bridge between her Indigenous identity as a Cree woman and her love of the gospel feels out of reach for Jalynne until motherhood brings a surprising change in perspective; As a recent divorcée, Suzanne feels invisible to her ward until she takes matters into her own hands. Show Notes:  To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel Transcript:  KaRyn  0:03  Welcome to "This Is the Gospel," an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay. If I asked you to name a time when you felt like a fish out of water, I bet it wouldn't take too many mental gymnastics for you to pull up that memory. All it would take for me is to cast my mind back to the rigors of middle school and the years that B.U.M. Equipment and Spree-branded clothing were all the rage here in the US. Oh, I needed that label on the front of my sweatshirt to match the label on everyone else's sweatshirt. It's all I asked for for Christmas that year. All I wanted in life, really. I wanted to slide into the massive B.U.M. Equipment sweatshirts and be one with the entire seventh grade. And isn't it funny that I cannot recall if I ever got the sweatshirt? But I remember that feeling. That feeling of longing that surrounded it, that pull to belong to something bigger than ourselves definitely has some strong biological roots. After all, there is safety in fitting in and conforming to the tribal standard.   And from a spiritual perspective, the need for us to be one to be unified was so important to Christ that he prayed to the Father on our behalf in His intercessory prayer. And while I'm pretty sure that He wasn't talking about me and you having matching sweatshirts, it's hard sometimes to know how to execute on that invitation, especially when our differences seem so pronounced.   Well, today we have two stories about what fitting into the body of Christ looks like in actual practice. Our first story comes from Jalynne who struggled to find the balance of both her cultural and spiritual identity. Here's Jalynne   Jalynne  1:50  I was raised on Beardy’s and Okemasis Cree Nation. That's the reservation that I'm from. And that's in Saskatchewan, Canada.   On the reservation, we have different customs, like even at a funeral, there's really different customs. And there's different cultural things that we have, like we go to feasts and to powwows and there's protocols you have to follow and that stuff is just normal. I'm sure to somebody who's never visited a reservation, that would be out of the norm for them but for us, it was just normal. That was just life. And it was a really beautiful environment for me to grow up in for our whole family because we didn't have any reason to feel out of place or different, we're with people who understood.   But I do remember, when I was in grade four, we decided to move off of the reservation for one year. It was like my first real exposure to like life off of the reservation. And I remember, um, I had been nervous to go to school. But I made like this little group of friends. And we were playing and I remember being conscious that I was one of the few First Nations people there. Oh, in Canada, we call ourselves First Nations. Here it's Native Americans in the US, but Canada, it's First Nations. But I remember being conscious of the fact that I was one of the only First Nations people in that class and one other boy.   And so I made this little group of friends. And I didn't really play with little boys that much, but I played with him at one point. And those little girls said to me, "Don't play with him. He's a native.   And I realized they didn't know that I was indigenous. So it was really kind of jarring for me. And that was like, a really young age to learn that, to learn that, "Oh, somebody's reaction to me might not be a positive one." And I don't really recollect a whole lot about the rest of that school year. But I do know that that little boy struggled with friends and finding friends.   Jalynne  4:23  Many experiences happened similar to that throughout my life. But the worst struggle for me was when it would happen at church. We were the only indigenous family at church, and it happened more often than I would have liked it to. Obviously, I wish that it never happened, it should be a safe space for everybody where everybody just feels totally embraced.   Jalynne  4:50  But I do remember this one time we were in a class and we were learning about the Book of Mormon and, and I love the Book of Mormon. . . I love the Book of Mormon. And we were talking about Lamanites and the teacher started talking about how native people were savages. And then he kept kind of going on and I feel like he maybe he didn't say it that much. But in my head, I felt like he just kept repeating it—like native people are savages.   And I remember I was with my brothers. And as a self kind of preservation mechanism, a lot of the times when you're confronted with something that's uncomfortable, and you don't know how to respond, you laugh. And my brothers, we kind of looked at each other and we laughed, kind of out of disbelief, and like, we couldn't, we couldn't believe what we were hearing. We didn't say anything. Like, obviously, we don't know what to say. But nobody else said anything, either. And I think that was one of the harder things. And so after that class, um, my brother, we were kind of talking about it. And my brother, like he just said, really firm, kind of it felt like an affirmation to himself, but also to us, and he said, "Nowhere in the Book of Mormon does it say the word 'savage.'" And I don't think that this person who said that was bad, and that, like, people are bad, people are just misinformed. Maybe he was comfortable saying, or maybe he hadn't been corrected on before.   I don't think we told our parents, and to be honest, they, they know like, stuff like this happened to them all the time. This wasn't a new story in our home.   Jalynne  7:01  So those are kind of heavy things to carry. But then I always think about my parents who I felt like weren't carrying them growing up because my dad was just so just gregarious, and just big and loud. And he always met people as his indigenous self, that's the only way he ever met a person.   Jalynne  7:27  And so I always just remember growing up in church, he would be teaching Sunday school, and he'd somehow tie it to our culture somehow, like, all of a sudden, we'd be having a lesson on teepees in the middle of Sunday school. Or, I remember, for the Christmas party one year, my dad, he just decided that we were—and we're not a family of singers—but he's like, "We're gonna go up and we're gonna sing some Cree hymns." And so we went up as a family and sang some Cree hymns. And none of us speak Cree except for my dad. And we were kind of singing these hymns that we didn't really know what we were saying. So, my parents were not about blending in or fading in, at all. I learned how miraculous it was, um, as I got older, and the full weight of my parents' story kind of sunk in.   I talked to my mom and I told her that I was going to be sharing her story. And I asked her if it was okay and she said, "Yes because my story is your story. This is our family's story." The more that we share our story is how we heal ourselves. But also it heals my mom knowing that, that I'm, I'm taking part in her story. And I'm actively being part of that healing process.   My mom, when she was a little girl, Canada had the Indian Residential School program. It began in the United States as the boarding school system and Canada quickly adopted it. And so the whole purpose of it was to strip indigenous heritage from indigenous people. And so it wasn't a choice that they had, it was forced on them.   And so, one day, when my mom was a little girl, two government agent showed up at her home and told my grandparents, my Kôhkum and my Môshum, "We're taking your kids." And they plead with them. "No, don't take them." And they said, "You either let us take them now or you'll never see them again." So my Kôhkum, my grandma, she fell to her knees and started crying as they let them take them from, from their home.   So you can understand how inhumane the system was, almost 3,000 children died as a result of the residential schools.   My Môshum knew the danger that they faced and the abuse that they would endure at those schools. Like all of a sudden, that was like awoken in him, what was going to happen. So he went running out and chased after the van that had just loaded up all of his children. And for the rest of the school year, my mom has this memory of my Môshum running after the car, and tripping and falling and crying in the road.   She had a surgery forced on her, she was not given any warning. All of a sudden, she was being toted away, and she wasn't told what was happening. And, next thing she knows, she's waking up from surgery, and she doesn't know what it was for.   My mom still has P— like, what I think is PTSD. To this day, like she was drinking apple juice and all of a sudden, like, she remembered something that happened to her and that apple juice now was an association for her.   I asked my mom once kind of how she maintained her tenderness and her testimony of the Christ through everything after a school system that was designed to take away her heritage, that was in partnership with it, with a Christian system, how did she maintain her testimony? And she said that she always knew who the Savior was, and the Savior wasn't in that abuse.   And my dad, when he joined the Church, it took him three years of investigation. And then he met my mom in those three years. He introduced the Church to my mom, and she was like, "Oh, that's true," and she joined us as well.   I just remember sitting in a Sunday school lesson and she would all of a sudden, like, be bearing her testimony about somebody like Spencer W. Kimball and all of the work that he did among indigenous communities. And she would go, and she knew all about him. She was always bearing testimony of her culture, and how it tied in with her Christianity.   My mom didn't have my dad's like boisterousness, I guess, it was more like my mom was really firm about teaching us certain things like recognizing racism. One time I was sick and my mom took me to the doctor. And the person there knew that my mom was a teacher on a reservation and that doctor just came in with this attitude. And she, she actually was telling my mother all the stupid things like my mom was doing, like, "This is the stupidest thing you can do as a mother," to my mom. She recognized how she was being treated but she didn't really say much to the doctor until we were done. And then she grabbed my hand and turned around and said, "We're not coming back to see you," and left. And that was all she said and I think that is more like my mom. Like, she was very soft and gentle until she needed to be firm.   So when I think about what my parents went through, um, it was just miraculous to me how it seemed they weren't burdened by these really heavy experiences that they had in their life. And that residential school system, like, it affected both sides of my family. My mom met my dad's sisters before she met my dad because they were at the residential schools together. My dad never, never went because they were phasing it out at the time and he went through his own hardship.   So as a teenager, I really looked up to my parents, but I also kind of felt that where they were was a little out of my reach because I knew that I was going through struggles internally, struggles that I didn't think they were going through.   Jalynne  14:46  I compartmentalize parts of myself into my adulthood. So one of the identifiers when you see an indigenous person is a lot of the times we're wearing beadwork. We're wearing beaded medallions, we have a saying in our community that, "Beading is medicine." And so we bead a lot and we wear beadwork a lot because that's medicine for us. And I never wore beadwork.   Jalynne  15:14  I would be gifted earrings and I wouldn't really wear them. Or if I did, I would, they would be really an identifiable earrings, I guess. And it wasn't on purpose. I don't think I ever did it like with this conscious purpose because I wasn't ashamed of who I was. Wearing, like beadwork or beaded earrings would immediately identify me to people outside of my community that I was an indigenous person. Like, anybody who was First Nations, like, they knew that I was a member of my community, but I guess to people outside of it, I looked more ambiguous. And so, and I'm ashamed of it but I, I use that to my advantage a lot of the time to find out how much of myself I could reveal to a person.   I wanted some element of control. I wanted that control because of that experience with the little boy. I just would always hear, "Don't play with him. He's a native." And when you have experiences like that throughout your life, you realize if you have the power to have any kind of control over somebody's perception of you, then you take it when you want people to perceive you in a good way.   I talked to a friend of mine, and this was after I had gotten married and we came back to, to Saskatchewan to visit and we we met with a friend of mine and his wife and we had dinner. And we started talking about my culture and, and my experiences and he asked me what it was like to be a member of the Church and to be First Nations and to experience those two things together. And I told him that it felt like you're wearing like clothes that are too tight but they look like really good. You knew that they're your best outfit, but they're just a little too tight. But when you're in your cultural community, it's like you're wearing your most comfiest pants like you, you're ready to, to sit and be cozy.   And I think with the experiences that I've had, and many people who come from marginalized communities, feel they might not have those two components together. And so that was my, always my struggle was feeling them together. I felt it at the temple because I think I was just there with, I was just there with the Savior. And I always felt that at the temple. To this day, the temple is my favorite place. Um, but when we don't have that, that protect, protection of just a direct communication with the Savior and you have imperfect people kind of like everywhere, you feel like you're in tight pants.   Jalynne  18:27  And so he was very surprised because he thought like, you know, in our small YSA in Saskatoon that we were a tight group. And like we were, but I never invited anybody to pow wow with me. I never invited anybody to a feast. I've seen too many people accidentally say something ignorant and hurting another friend of mine, or hurting me. And there's nothing malicious at all about their accidental slips of the tongue. But I feel very protective of not only the reputation of my friends in, in our faith community, but the feelings of my friends who were marginalized as indigenous people. I knew that the things that were normal and beautiful for me were strange and uncivilized outside of our reservation.   Jalynne  19:27  I think everything kind of, I don't want to say came crashing down on me. But I think when I realized that my self-preservation mechanisms and coping mechanisms and all these techniques they weren't working was when I became a mother and I realized that my children are learning their worth from me. And all of a sudden, like, it was like this light came off like my parents were teaching us our worth, like my dad, just, you know, just walking in indigenous foot first was really a helpful tool for me. And my mom being very firm about her identity was a tool for me. And so when I became a mother, I, it's like this bright light just went off in my brain and I saw what they were doing.   And I realized I didn't want my son to learn how to mask himself the way I had. I wanted him to, to walk into a room indigenous foot first like my dad does. And so we made the decision to, to grow his hair. We decided to grow his hair because, first of all, in past parts of the residential school system, their hair was cut. So little boys couldn't have long hair, but also, so that's like a way to be honor ancestry and we reclaim our ancestry. But also, when you're growing a little boy's hair from, from an infant, each braid has a meaning, and you always start off as three braids. There's a braid on the top of your head and two braids on the side because that's all you really can do with his little hair. And one of our Cree teachings about hair is that each braid symbolizes three things. One is your relationship to the Creator, two, second braid, is your relationship to other people. And three is your own spiritual relationship with yourself.   And my son's journey is, it's his own little journey. But I wanted to get, if I could in any kind of a way, get his feet planted in his culture as early as possible. And get him, we talked about how loving his hair all the time, in a really positive way. But already, at the age of four, he's been made fun of.   I'm aware of, of what he might face and what he still might go through the journeys that I go, I went through, and that felt really heavy to me one day. And after he had been made fun of, I just kind of felt like giving up and I'm like, it would be so much easier if we just, you know, cut his hair. It'll just, he won't have to deal with that. No one will mistake him for a little girl, no one will make fun of him and tell him, he won't have to worry about that.   And I went to the temple one day and I was just kind of feeling just finished. I just felt like at a hopeless place on the way to the temple. And I said, "Heavenly Father, I'm going to the temple. I don't expect anything to happen but if you could just help me carry this burden just a little bit, I'll be really grateful. And I didn't even expect that to be answered because I thought maybe He's just giving me this, this hard week or this hard emotion of me to, for me to work through because it was good for me. And I got there and this woman I'd never met before just gave me a hug and said, "Thank you so much for coming."   So a Cree teaching is we believe we're all related. And we call other communities of color our relatives. And so this woman, she was Polynesian and so I felt like I was seeing a relative. And it felt like I was being hugged by my auntie, and I really needed, I was missing home. I was missing my home community. And it meant so much to me to be embraced at the time that I needed it in the temple.   And so I went through the session just crying. And I just remember thinking, "I wonder if there's anybody else here with me." And all of a sudden, I felt my Môshum Joe beside me. I felt him in the room with me and, and I knew what he had gone through, what he had seen his children go through, having their culture taken from them. And it just felt like I was on the right path. Like I all of a sudden like felt this answered like, "Jalynne, you are on the right path. And it's gonna be hard but what your family had gone through wasn't for nothing. It wasn't so you could fit in. It was so you could find so much joy in your culture, and so much joy passing that culture on to your children. Heavenly father didn't send you, it wasn't a mistake that He sent you to the earth the way that He sent you."   And so ever since then, like I never, I'm, like I think I'm like my dad now like, I'm just gregarious. Like I'm not, I'm a shy person, but I feel like, I like walk into a room indigenous foot first. And I'm just really grateful for that answered prayer. That Heavenly Father let me know that my attempts to, to be the person that He wants me to be, are accepted by Him. And that He's not wasting this gift, I'm not wasting this gift that He has given to me by being Cree, I'm not wasting it. I'm taking advantage of it and finding joy in it.   If I can teach my children to love themselves where they are, they'll be able to hopefully love other people where they are the way Christ loves us. He can reach anybody anywhere. He can reach my mom when she was a little girl at the residential school. He can reach my dad when he is making us sing Cree hymns at a Christmas pageant. He can reach anybody.   I want my children to know that they are always worthy of it and they don't have to compromise that part of themselves because it has every possibility to enhance their testimony and to enhance their relationship with the Savior like it did for me.   KaRyn  27:02  That was Jalynne.   I admit that I know so little about the experience of my indigenous brothers and sisters, especially in the context of our church life. I feel deep gratitude to Jalynne and her parents for their willingness to share this story, so that I can learn and understand better.   It was especially hard for me to hear the ways that we can sometimes get it wrong as volunteer teachers of the scriptures. But I'm going to take that part of the story as a gentle reminder to tread lovingly when I'm teaching and to seek more guidance from heaven about what to teach and how.   I think like Jalynne, we all bring a few identities with us when we walk through those chapel doors. Maybe they're cultural, maybe they're familial or professional. And some of those identities are easier to reconcile with the gospel than others. But that work of integration can be a holy work that leads us towards the most important identity as children of Christ.   I was reminded in Jalynne story that we will have divine assistance as we choose what to hold on to, and what to let go of in that pursuit.   Our final story today comes from Suzanne, who learned that sometimes in order to find your place, you have to create it. Here's Suzanne.   Suzanne  28:17  My story starts with the decision to divorce my husband. We had been married for 40 years. I was 60 years old and we have seven children, they had, they were all gone from our home at that point.   It was something that had been building for many years but it finally came to the point where I felt like I couldn't stay. And so I was the one who packed up and moved to a different place. That was quite an experience for me. I had either been taken care of by my parents or by my husband. You might as well put me on the moon.   When I got to my new ward I thought, "Okay, you know, I'm going to have great sisters here. It's gonna be okay. I'm gonna make it through this. But it didn't quite happen, at least not for me. I was not treated badly. I would never say that. But they didn't know what to do with me.   I handed the bishop my tithing every couple of weeks. Other than that, we had no contact. I sat on my bench in church. I would sit on this side and I would sit all the way in next to the wall so that if someone else wanted to come and sit, you know, because everybody's looking for a place to sit, my bench would be available. I lived there for two years, and I sat alone on my bench.   It's very difficult to go to church when you don't feel like you have a connection to the people in the church. I really wondered how this was supposed to work. And finally, one day, I talked to my Relief Society president. And I said, "You know, I've lived in this ward for six months. I do not have home teachers. I don't have visiting teachers. I don't know anybody who is in this ward." And so then I did receive home teachers and visiting teachers, and they were wonderful. And I liked knowing them. It was nice to have a face at church and in Relief Society that I recognized. But I still felt very, very separate and practically invisible.   I sold my home and moved to another part of Salt Lake. And I was really considering staying under the radar for as long as possible. It's very hard to stay active, especially if you are moving to a new area where you don't know people.   Because I had felt so frustrated with my experiences in that first ward, I felt like maybe I needed to write a letter and explain that to the people at church headquarters, or at least to tell them my story because I felt like there were so many sisters who they would not be hearing from. And I wanted them to know how difficult that is for a single sister and a divorced sister. I felt like there were many sisters who actually were becoming inactive because they didn't feel that they were being heard or seen. I figured it doesn't hurt to tell them and maybe if someone else writes the letter, then there'll be more than one voice. So I finished my letter, and there was some fear and trepidation that went along with that. But I put a stamp on it and sent it off.   So when I moved into my new home, lo and behold, my bishop came over. I thought, "Whoo! I got a bishop!" And that was a very positive experience. And it was still, it was still a little while before I decided to make the plunge and go to church.   Now when I went to church that very first Sunday, I walked in the door, I was greeted by an absolutely lovely sister, who introduced herself and asked me if I was new, and I said yes. And she was very friendly. And then I went in and sat down alone on my bench. And then, you know, we have Sunday school, then we had Relief Society. And I thought, "Meh, I really want to go to Relief Society, you know. This is, I've done done, my due diligence. I've been here for two hours." But I thought, "Nah, you know, buck up and go to Relief Society."   So I went into Relief Society and the sister who had greeted me at the door when I very first walked in to sacrament meeting came over to me, she said, "Do you mind if I sit with you? Because I don't think anyone should have to sit alone." And I almost burst into tears. I just thought she was so sweet to do that.   But they were handing out, you know how they do those papers where everybody gets a paper, you have to read your little thing and answer your question? When I read what my question was going to be, I realized that the lesson was going to be on temples. And I had just ended a 40 year template marriage. I was not in the mood to discuss temples. I was still trying to figure out where I fit because I am no longer married to the man I'm sealed to, you know. So I really, really wanted to get up and leave. But Relief Society is started and there was no way that I could gracefully get out of that room, or I would've.   So the lesson started, the lady who gave the lesson did a wonderful job. But it was in the responses by the sisters in Relief Society that just about blew me away. We had, of course, lovely sisters who talked about how wonderful the temple was and how much they loved it and how they went weekly or whatever. But we also had sisters who raised their hand and who said, "You know, I had a temple recommend, and I loved going to the temple. But I'm not in that position anymore where I can go, but I would like someday to return."   And I thought, "Wait a minute, we don't discuss this kind of stuff in Relief Society. Nobody comes actually out and says, 'I don't have a recommend.'" And she was not the only sister who said pretty much the same thing. They never disparaged the temple or, or said anything bad about it. It was always very complimentary, that it had been a wonderful place. It was peaceful. It was a place they wanted to be able to go again.   And then, which just almost knocked me off my chair, was the teacher up front said, "Well, sisters, actually, I don't have a recommend either." Um, then I said, "Sisters, I want you to know that I have never been in a group of women like this before." The amount of honesty and the love and the comfort that I felt in that room where each sister felt that she could say what was in her heart.   So I thanked them for having that kind of a spirit. And I told them that I had never, ever experienced anything like this before. And I shed a lot of tears at that point. So Relief Society ended and I had quite a few sisters who came up and spoke to me after. There was such a common thread, it really struck me because I would get this wonderful hug, and they would welcome me and they would say, "You are exactly where you need to be. This is the healing ward." And I truly believed that that was the case.   A month or two after that, I got a call from the stake president. And so I went over and visited with him. I walk into his office and his desk was all cleared and my letter was right in the middle of the desk. And, you know, he just said, "Well, I got a call from the area presidency, and they told me to, I needed to talk to you and see how you were feeling. I told him everything I said in the letter was true and I still believed everything. But that I had been placed in a place where I could heal. And after I finished visiting with the stake president, and he was showing me out, um, we talked for just a moment. And he said, "Well, I just want you to know that we will be changing some of the boundaries in some of the wards." When he told me that, my heart dropped.   Honestly, my heart broke at that moment. And in just a few months, the boundaries did change. I went to the new ward and probably 75% of the people were brand new to me. But the thing I did notice, week after week coming to church, was that the sisters that I had seen in that original Relief Society meeting that had touched my heart so very deeply, were not there. They didn't feel, perhaps, that they had a place, and it broke my heart.   As time went on, I realized that if I wanted to be associated with sisters and have that same wonderful feeling, that it wasn't going to just happen. It had to be made to happen. So as I talked to a couple of the sisters that I was acquainted with, I said, "You know, we really should just came together." So we decided that we would meet every month. And at first I thought, "Well, you know, do we need a book? Or do we need some, like an article or something that we can discuss?" I was dead wrong on that.   We just come together and we talk about whatever's on our minds. If that includes frustrations, then we hear frustrations. If that includes times when we feel like we got to win, then that is there too. And it is such a wonderful feeling to gather with these women because we're all close to the same condition in life, but we all caught here in different ways.   We have one sister who is a widow. We have sisters who were not treated well by their husbands. We have sisters who were never married. We meet together out of kind of in an atmosphere of healing. This is the place we can be ourselves under any circumstance. And I come home, and my heart is full. We're not invisible to each other.   Several of these women would sit on the back row. And so when one of us or when one of us single sisters would walk in, you know, they would motion and say, "Come, come and sit with us." I cannot tell you the difference that that made in my feelings about going to church. The thought that when I got there, even though I was coming by myself, that I would walk in the door, I would see a face that I recognized and they would say, "Come and sit with me." When you walk in, you know that that little section is going to be there for you. And it is huge.   Honestly, there were times before and after I went through the divorce proceedings, that I felt extremely alone. I didn't feel like, like my Heavenly Father really was interested in what I was going through. And I really felt like I was fighting myself to remain active.   After I had the experiences that I did, as I moved into this particular area, it was like a light bulb going off. And as I looked back and watched things that had happened to me and decisions that I had made because of those things, I thought, "I have been put here. I have been placed here very carefully, led by circumstance, but it has brought me to this place. This is the place that I was meant to be." And I was so grateful for that knowledge.   I know that my Father in Heaven is watching over me because I'm here. And all I have to do is look around and I know that I was guided. Now maybe I was kicking and screaming while I was being guided, but I was guided and He does care.   KaRyn  44:08  That was Suzanne.   I appreciate her willingness to be so open and honest about what it was like for her to transition from a space where she felt she checked all the boxes of our church culture into a new phase of life where she felt different, unseen, and even unnecessary. And while Suzanne's experience is unique to her I don't think it's a stretch to say that most of us, as part of our mortal condition, will feel that isolation of not fitting in at some point. And when that happens at church, the one place where we most hope to feel the belonging, the pain can be exponential.   It's so encouraging for me to hear a story like Suzanne's because even though her concerns and her ache aren't completely resolved even now, she has been able to create belonging for herself and others by reframing her expectations of fitting in.   Of course, it's amazing when we feel ushered in and shown to our reserved spot on the front pew. But some of the most exciting and stretching work of discipleship is actually happening on that back row, where we thought there wasn't going to be enough room for us. But if we sidle right in and create the space for ourselves, things around us will shift and will fit with room to spare. And even if that space does feel tight at first, maybe we'll find that that's a gift. Because when space is tight, you can't help but bump into the people around you. And like Suzanne discovered if you're feeling out of place, most likely, you're not alone on that bench.   I think this is important. I'm not saying that people who feel marginalized should have to fight to be part of the body of Christ. Those of us who are currently feeling like we know where to sit each Sunday, we're obligated by virtue of our baptismal covenant to scoot over, to make room for those who don't know where they belong. We can help one another, we can look around, we can raise our hands to make it a little bit easier for those who are searching for a place to find their place.   In the October 2020 general conference, Elder Quentin L. Cook spoke about creating a more unified and cohesive church in his talk, "Hearts Knit in Unity and Righteousness." He reminded us that, quote: "Unity and diversity are not opposites. We can achieve greater unity as we foster an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for diversity."   What does that look like, that "fostering an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for diversity?" What does that look like in practice for me, for you? Well, for me, as someone who currently checks many of the cultural-norm boxes, it starts with listening, really listening to the stories of people who are different for me. It means that I have to become the kind of person who asks the question that Jalynne's friend did, "What is it like for you, in your current circumstances, to be a member of this church?" Then just as importantly, I have to become the kind of person who can be trusted to hear and care about the honest answer, even if it's painful. Not to dismiss it or to justify, but to listen with an open heart when my brother or sister tells me that they feel invisible in our ward. Or that they're afraid to allow people to see all the parts of themselves because they are afraid they'll be mocked, or that a comment in Sunday school made them feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. I have to be willing to hear that, to ask, and then to listen with the intent to mourn with those that mourn. And comfort those that stand in need of my comfort, and then figure out what I can do better. I think that's the groundwork, the foundation for the kind of unity that we long to have in the Church of Jesus Christ, that we're commanded to have in the Church of Jesus Christ.   In that same talk, Elder Cook said this:   "If we are to follow President Nelson’s admonition to gather scattered Israel, we will find we are as different as the Jews and Gentiles were in Paul’s time. Yet we can be united in our love of and faith in Jesus Christ. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans establishes the principle that we follow the culture and doctrine of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the model for us even today."   As you and I move together towards this gathering of Israel, it won't always be easy to scoot over for others or to squeeze ourselves into the pew. It's work, hard, hard work, divine work, but exhausting work. But the end goal is Zion, to find ourselves and our fellow men and women enveloped and belonging, united in our love of and faith in Jesus Christ. And to me, that beautiful end is worth the discomfort and the exhaustion of the work of now.   That's it for this episode of "This Is the Gospel." Thank you to our storytellers, Jalynne and Suzanne, for sharing their stories with us.   Jalynne is an artist who makes these beautiful traditional Cree beadwork pieces, and we'll have pictures of her and her artwork along with more information about both of our storytellers in our show notes at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. You can also get more good stuff by following us on Instagram or Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast.   All of the stories in this episode are true and accurate, as affirmed by our storytellers. And of course, if you have a story to share about living the gospel, please call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. We find many of our stories for this podcast from the pitch line, and we love to hear how the gospel of Jesus Christ is transforming your life. Call 515-519-6179 to leave us a message.   This episode was produced by me, KaRyn Lay, with additional help from Sarah Blake. Our stories were produced and edited by Erika Free. It was scored, mixed, and mastered by Mix at 6 Studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.   You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at ldsliving.com/podcasts.   Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: A phone call to a complete stranger could mean redemption or condemnation for Lindsey as she struggles to overcome a 13-year-old lie; Claire struggles to find relief from challenges with addiction until an unexpected source becomes the catalyst for true change. Show Notes:  To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel Transcript:  KaRyn  0:03  Welcome to "This Is the Gospel" an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay. How many times in your day do you throw the word "honesty" around? If I'm being totally honest with you, I do it all the time. The phrases "honestly" and "to be honest," have become almost as commonplace in the English language as "like," and "ya know." And if that wasn't enough, all you have to do is parent or teach a six year old for you to really start to wonder if, "I'm being honest, I swear!" has any meaning at all. And truly, that's a bit of a problem for all of us. Honesty, and the pursuit of honesty was so important to God that he etched it into some stone tablets along with nine other really important rules to live by as a human being. And as we seek to understand what's real in this world filled with imitations and imposters, our relationship with truth, whether that's being honest with ourselves, or being honest with others, plays a critical role in our ability to know God, and to know and understand His gospel. So today, we have two stories about the way that honesty or the lack thereof affects our spiritual lives and what happens to our hearts when the truth finally comes out. Our first story comes from Lindsey, who learned the hard way that facing the truth is more freeing than living in the lie. Here's Lindsey.   Lindsey  1:33  So I am rocking my sweet baby in his room and I am having one of those days where I'm thinking about the past, thinking of where we've been, how it took so long to bring him into our family. We had received so many blessings to get him here. And then I started to feel inadequate. I started to think of all the things that, that I wanted for him, to be happy, to make good friends. And to be honest, and I had that same thought that kept coming into my mind, "Lindsey, how can you possibly teach your son to be honest when you yourself have not been honest?" So 13 years ago, I was a live-in nanny. I was 18, I had a huge responsibility of caring for two, six-month-old twins. And I loved those kids. They were my whole world at the time. I did have another nanny that worked alongside me and her name was Liz and she worked part time. She was everything that I wasn't. She was funny, athletic, mature, creative. She had curly hair, but good curly hair, not like mine—poofy and frizzy. And she was a student at BYU and the guys absolutely loved her. In contrast, I was immature. I had no plans of going to college. I did have a boyfriend and he was going to college. And I was hoping that he didn't realize that I didn't have a whole lot to offer. Every Sunday I had a few hours off, luckily. So I was able to go to dinner with my boyfriend and his family. And I go out to head to my boyfriend's house. I get out to the driveway and it's totally covered in snow. There's ice all over. I hadn't used the car for a couple of days so I knew it was going to take a long time to scrape everything off. Because mine was totally covered in snow, Liz offered to let her use her vehicle, which she had been driving so it didn't have any snow on it. Liz was borrowing this truck from her brother-in-law and it was big and kind of intimidating. And in the back of the truck was a big, six-foot toolbox that was nice and shiny and new. And again, no snow so I load in the truck. I go down the windey road, it's windy and slick. So I'm going below the speed limit. I go for about 20 minutes, and I noticed a couple people honking at me. But again, because I'm driving slower than normal, I didn't think much of it. I take a sharp turn and I head up the mountain. So I'm relieved that I get to my boyfriend's house on time and safe. Because of the conditions of the road, I was just relieved to get there. And when I hopped out of the truck, I immediately understood why they were honking. Not only was the tailgate open, but also the toolbox was completely gone. I'm assuming that it had been wavering back and forth, and it had finally toppled over when I had taken that sharp turn. I grabbed my boyfriend and we went back down the hill, we take a turn, and there's the toolbox in the middle of the road with tools scattered everywhere. And I could not believe that, number one, we hadn't caused an accident, and two, that there was no one around. So we hopped out of the truck and with tears streaming down my face, we're frantically picking up the tools. There's padding everywhere that had ripped apart, the drawers are all open, it's dented. So we're picking them up, we throw them into the truck, and we head back to his house to try to assemble this all back together. I, like, I'm past the point of frantic hysteria. I am just quietly crying and thinking of how I'm going to explain to Liz that I have ruined this toolbox. I was just so overwhelmed with this feeling of, "You have messed up." And I wasn't just worried about Liz and how this was going to affect her, I was even more concerned about her brother-in-law, who I had never met. So my boyfriend and I worked on this for probably more than an hour. And we got to where this was an impossible puzzle, we were not going to be able to put the foam pieces in the way that they originally came. So we did the best we could and that was that. The toolbox looked like it had been through war. It looked really, really mangled. I knew that I was going to have to talk to her. I had a plan to go back to the house and to tell her what had happened. I pulled into the driveway, I went into the house, and I said absolutely nothing to her. And she left. She went back to her dorm, and I went to bed that night. I hardly slept. And so a couple of days later, I saw her again, she came back to work. And that is when she approached me and asked me what had happened to the toolbox. And, "I don't know what happened." I, I lied. I lied to her. I straight up lied to her face. And even worse, I acted surprised when she told me that it was ruined. And because of how amazing she was, she left it at that because she trusted me. I'd never given her any other time to where she didn't trust me. So eventually she quit and moved out of state. We eventually connect on social media. And I kind of just avoided her because of that guilt. And I didn't want to pretend that we were such good friends because good friends wouldn't lie to their friends' faces. Fast forward 13 years and, yeah, I still could not get this toolbox out of my mind. And that brings me back to this day, holding my baby. And I just knew that this was it. This was the one thing that was holding me back. So one night, I typed up this huge email to her full of my just gut-wrenching apology to her. I apologized for lying. for damaging the toolbox. I told her that I thought of this in very pivotal moments in my life. When I received the fourth call from the doctor that said that the IVF didn't work. When I got that seventh failed IUI, artificial insemination. I thought of those things every time something bad happened to me, I thought, "This is because of the toolbox. This is because you have yet to apologize and fess up for the toolbox." I don't think that was God or the Spirit that was telling me that. I needed some sense of control in my life. And when things didn't work out the way I wanted to, I had to come up with some kind of explanation as to why things weren't working out for me. So while I'm writing this letter, I tell her to please apologize to her brother-in-law for me, and that I am willing to compensate him for whatever the cost was of a new toolbox. Even though this was years ago, I still needed her to know that I am here and I want to do what's right. I finally send off this email. And I was sick. I was hoping that I was going to feel relief, but instead I just felt this huge sense of doom, like you have just stirred this up. Because nobody knew that I had done this, this was my deep, dark, dirty secret. And hours later, I get an alert that Liz has responded. And I open it and I am reading this and I'm just totally surprised with what I see. She is telling me that she feels horrible that I have been burdened with this. And I scan through a couple other things and at the very bottom, all I see is, "Here is Tyler's number, he wants to talk to you. He too is wondering what happened to the toolbox." This is not what I wanted to read.   Tyler  11:27  I don't remember exactly the circumstance under which I asked the question. But I do remember asking the question to Liz, "Hey, what happened to this toolbox?" So when I discovered the toolbox and how it was so banged up, and yet the bed of the truck was not banged up, and I'm trying to, just trying to solve that mystery. This wasn't just this toolbox fell over, or this wasn't just somebody hit the brakes hard and the toolbox slammed into the side. I mean, this toolbox clearly had been through quite an experience. Her response was, "I don't know." And I think I asked her then to ask Lindsey if she knew what had happened. And there too, it was same response: "I don't know." I remember feeling like something clearly happened. Information is not coming forward as to exactly what happened. I, if I were to, to label how I felt at that time, it was just, it was frustration, the frustration of not being told really what happened. And the frustration of not having to deal with it. So I wouldn't say I felt any kind of anger, I just felt frustration and in terms of my relationship with Liz, no, it didn't affect that relationship at all. Other than I knew, I knew somebody knew the story, and somebody wasn't telling me the story. So I go back into my, my normal daily life and go on about my business. At the time I owned a landscape company and I was doing a lot of business with various hardware stores in the area. I got to know the manager of the hardware store fairly well. And on one occasion, I was there picking up some materials and he's out there with me loading them and sees the toolbox. He and I get into a conversation about that toolbox and I said, "I don't know what happened to that toolbox. But clearly, whatever happened, it didn't hold up too well." And he said, "Well, because you just recently bought it, if you'd like to return it, we'll exchange it out." He exchanged the, the old one, the old beat up one for a brand new one. So at that moment, in reality, I had been made whole. But occasionally thinking over the years that I still wanted, I still wondered what really happened with that original toolbox. So, so a year or so ago, Liz called me and asked if I remember this incident. And I remember the kind of the excitement of getting that phone call, and still, still wondering how that mystery was going to get solved or if it was ever gonna get solved, if I'd ever know. And Liz has somewhat prepped me, saying how much this has affected Lindsey and I didn't want Lindsey to have to suffer any more than she already had. And so I remember being so anxious for her to call. So that, selfishly, a mystery get solved in my mind. But more important, second of all, now that I knew that this had affected her in such a major way, that I could play a role in helping to lay this to rest. Phone, you know, phone rings, she introduces herself to me. I could sense the nervousness in her voice. She went through and told me the story of what had happened, and it finally made sense. And I remember her being very concerned that I would think of her as a liar. And when she said those words, my immediate reaction was "Lindsey, you are not a liar, a liar wouldn't be making this phone call. And I don't remember if she asked me to forgive her at the moment in time, if she explicitly stated something of that nature, I can honestly tell you that I absolutely forgave her.   Lindsey  16:13  As he's telling me this on the phone, I just was in awe because here I am, for almost 14 years, being so sick and heartbroken about this toolbox. But in the meantime, Heavenly Father had paved the way and had blessed him with a replacement. This wasn't his mistake, this was my mistake and he was gifted a new toolbox. So at the end of the conversation of him telling me the story, he pauses and I'll never forget what he said to me. He said, "It is time for you to put this behind you. No longer do you need to be burdened with this. And I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to now teach this lesson to my children. And now you have the opportunity when your son gets older to sit down and teach him this lesson of honesty as well. And I just remember feeling so much peace when he said that. And I knew that that came directly from my Heavenly Father.   Tyler  17:30  You know it just makes my heart ache that she went through all of that grief for all those years. But I was, at the same time, I was very thankful that we were able to have this conversation, to solve the mystery, and to put the issue to rest. Had she just told me at the very onset, or when this incident occurred, had, what had really happened, this could have been easily dealt with back then. And so it's a reminder to all of us to just be honest with each other. The burden that she's carried all this, all these years, is far greater than it needed to be.   Lindsey  18:21  So after I got off the phone with him, I just felt so different. I immediately knew that this was done, that I didn't have to worry about this anymore. And I just felt clean again, and it had been so long that I had felt that way.   Tyler  18:43  And what's so interesting to me as this relates to the gospel, and to the Atonement, is that here a hardware store in this story effectively acts as the Savior. And so here the hardware store made me whole. They didn't cause the damage and yet, they were willing to make me whole because of it. And so it's kind of like what the Savior does for us. It's like kind of it is what the Savior does for us. To hear, the Savior has, He has nothing to do with the things that we do that are wrong, the sins that we commit. But yet He is happy to play a role to make us whole, and that's part of the plan. This is the plan. He has accounted for it. And so that's really where it helps me put everything, it helps put everything into context as to how this is a sampling of what the gospel is all about.   Lindsey  19:46  I often think of the video of the umbrella with Elder Uchtdorf, you know that one where he says, "Heavenly Father is constantly raining blessings upon on us. It is our fear, doubt and sin that like an umbrella block these blessings from reaching us." And I think about that often, just the, the analogy of it. That same phone call, I go back to that when, you know the phone call is ended. And I just picture that umbrella being closed and I can now see that it's possible. Sometimes I think we feel that repentance is an impossible thing because of pride and shame and embarrassment. But it's possible and Heavenly Father will always be there for us.   KaRyn  20:43  That was Lindsey and Tyler. It's pretty rare that you get to hear both sides of a story like this. And we were so grateful to Tyler for letting some total strangers hunt him down and ask him questions about his experience. And since we're being totally honest, as producers, we were kind of wondering if Tyler's story might have some juicy bits of resentment and frustration that could resolve in the course of the story. But I think the fact that what we discovered was a story filled with kindness and forgiveness from the very beginning is absolutely fitting. For years, Lindsey let this lie weigh on her heart and sit heavily on her sense of worth and goodness. And while she was doing and feeling disconnected, God was busy creating compensatory blessings for Tyler that allowed him to flourish and love. We don't tell the truth only because it offers resolution. In fact, God can take care of that without us if He has to. We tell the truth because it is essential fuel for a soul that longs to be connected to our own divinity. If God is truth, and we are the children of God, then striving towards truth will get us closer and closer to that light. Our final story today about coming clean and finding truth comes from Claire.   Claire  21:58  So the very first time that I shoplifted I was about 12 years old. And my friends and I, we hung out all the time, and we would go to this store. We would ride our bikes or walk to the store that was in the neighborhood. And there were some candy that we wanted. And we didn't have enough money, and they were like king-sized caramel bars, I do you remember, so my friend was like, "Well, just, you know, put it in your bag really quick." And we always had like a bag or something like a backpack. And it was with this guy that we really liked and I think we were trying to impress him. I think it was more of like, you know, "Be cool in front of this guy, this skater guy." And so we put the candy bars in her bag. And it was like such a rush, like, "Oh my gosh!" And then leaving the store and going back to the trail and like eating our candy bars and laughing about it, just thinking that we were so cool because we got away with it. And I think that it was a feeling of like being cool that really kind of drew me into doing it all the time with them because I wanted to be accepted so bad. We started with the candy bars, my friend and I, and she was my best friend. She really was like my best friend. We were together all the time. She, we shoplifted not just candy but chapstick and makeup. And then eventually, we started when I was about 14 years old—14, 15—we would ride the city bus to the mall and we would have our backpack and that's when we started shoplifting clothes, and like shoving just tons of clothes in our backpacks. And eventually it just got so easy like I didn't have any conscious of it anymore. As the little candy bar turned into chapstick, turned into makeup, turned into clothes, my, my sense of this being wrong just kind of like left. I was raised to know right from wrong. I went to seminary and the Young Women's Primary. My parents did everything to raise all six kids to be strong members of faith, and have honesty, and a truth, and trying to follow the Savior and all that He teaches. So I kept my shoplifting from my parents by being a good girl. I was good at school. I never have liked contention so I tried not to fight too much with my siblings or to cause too much problems. So I don't think my parents knew at all that there was this little secret that I had. And they were busy. They were very busy. They always had callings, my dad had started his business so he was always busy trying to get his business going. And, and I don't fault them for not knowing because I tried to keep it a secret and I did really good at it, I, you know, was really good at not showing that I had this bad secret. I think when things really start to spiral out of control was when I moved out after graduating high school, and I was on my own. And I stopped going to church, you know, I was 18 and free and I was working as a cocktail server and so I was working the weekends. And, you know, I just thought I was too busy to go to church so there was a big disconnect there. And I was hanging around with the wrong people, my coworkers. And so I really think I just lost myself, I lost what I knew growing up in my home. I don't think I really admitted that my shoplifting was a problem until I got caught. And then I continued to still do it. And then I got caught again. And I got caught like multiple times. And I even did like jail time for it and I couldn't stop. Like, even though I had money, you know, there was like, it was stupid things I didn't even really need. There's no denying that it's a problem when you take stuff that you don't even really need and you've been in jail for it. So there was no denying that was a problem. I don't remember a moment, a specific moment where I thought this is no good. But I, I do remember, as I got to be 18, 19, 20 and the friends that I was hanging out with, we started doing things that I knew were wrong, like partying all the time. And the partying just turned into harder and harder drugs and and experiences and, and doing scarier things that, that I knew were wrong, that were so wrong. And as I started, not just experimenting with these drugs, and these people, I knew I didn't feel happy at all. Like it just felt hollow. Like, I felt a disconnect. I knew that I had disconnected from the Spirit that I felt in my life, it was gone. And I could feel it, I could feel that it was gone. And eventually I started going to different rehabs and went to jail a few times and nothing changed in my life because I wasn't ready, maybe? I thought I was because I thought I was trying to stop. But I, I there was something that wasn't connecting with my efforts. I believe that it didn't actually work because I wasn't honest about how it was really affecting my life. I wasn't honest about how, like I, I think I just thought that it was only hurting me and that I could stop if I wanted to. When I really wanted to, I could just stop and that it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But I couldn't stop. I remember one night I was in my room and I was sitting there using some drugs and I remember thinking this needs to stop. And I remember saying a prayer, "Please help me stop this disease." And that was the most sincere I really asked for help, like ever. And then the next day, I went to jail. Like God was answering my prayer and giving me a way to be all the things that I wanted to be, I wanted to be free of. So He put me away and free from being able to get to those things. I remember sitting in the jail cell and it must be a scripture mastery scripture. I remember the thought, "Experiment on my word." And I remember that thought like repeating in my head. And so I asked the officer in the jail if I could get a Book of Mormon to read. And I started reading the Book of Mormon every day. Eventually, I started to feel the Spirit again. And it was something that I missed, like so much. It was so great to feel it again. After I got released from jail, I committed to reading my scriptures every day, I just decided to see what happens if you just read it every day, just see what happens. And the first thing that fell away was my shoplifting. I realized that I didn't want to do it anymore. I there was, like no desire to put that chapstick or gum in my purse anymore. I remember walking out of stores and feeling so good that I could be in the store without being nervous that I was going to be caught. Like for the first time in years, I could leave stores and not be nervous that there was going to be somebody chasing me down. You know, I knew that it was because I was reading my Book of Mormon and so I knew that if I just kept reading, these, I just got to continue to get better. I think with the scriptures, there's power in the words. I reflect on how, you know, God created words. And by reading and visualizing and thinking about the words, there's the power there, that is a gift from God if we want to tap into it, if we really had the desire and the commitment to tap into the opportunity of the scriptures and the words in it. I started going back to church, and I met up with a bishop. And it was really kind of hard to tell him everything. But then it, it also felt really good to just tell him, to just get it off my chest. And he suggested some things that I should do. And I don't remember specifically what he advised but I do remember that I also committed to pay my tithing and be faithful with that and to come to church regularly and make sure to just be honest in everything that I say. I felt like he didn't judge me and so maybe I'm not as bad as I feel like I should feel. I just remember leaving my bishop's office feeling really good and that gave me hope, gave me hope. After reading my scriptures every day, and after the shoplifting fell away, my smoking, I used to smoke cigarettes and, and all of a sudden I just didn't want to and I would try to and it was gross. And I was like, "Ew, why did I even try that?" I never really was a hard drinker but I didn't even want to hang out with the people that drink I, you know, didn't want to drink. And then I didn't even want to hang out with the people that did. And I didn't want any of the things or the lifestyle that I used to just find so fun. I started hanging around with my family, they became my best friends. I know that they are the biggest support and strength for me and being around them strengthened me more than any of the treatment centers I went to, even though they did help teach me some things to avoid or, I just feel like being with my family and their joy and their love. and their righteousness like was one of the biggest strengths for me. During all my distancing from my family and parents, they always invited me home. They always open their door to me and invited me to family things. And when I was there, they always showed love and never judgment. And so I always knew that they were there for me. I really want to tell parents when they have kids that are straying and they wonder if they should just, you know, block them out, block them off and until they decide to change their ways, I want them to know, knowing that my family was there, no matter what, gave me something to come back to when I was ready. And I think if they turned their backs on me I would have turned my back on me too. I would have given up. Well, I do know that when I was dishonest, my family knew that I was dishonest. They weren't stupid. And they forgave me. It taught me that I needed to forgive. And it taught me that unless you're honest, people don't trust you, and it took a long time to re, re-earn that trust. And I've learned it's a precious thing that I don't ever want to lose, I can't. To me now, an honest life looks like being able to be who I really am, and have fun sharing myself with my family and my friends and being free of any worry of what I've said, or what people think of me. If I'm honest, I know I have nothing to hide. And that is, like such a good feeling.   KaRyn  36:07  That was Claire. Claire has now been clean and sober for about 13 years and really wanted to make sure everybody knew that a huge part of her recovery was being honest with herself about the need to completely disconnect from those old friends and old places of her former life. Claire and I also talked a lot about the value of different kinds of support systems in the pursuit of honesty and sobriety. We both felt it was important to note that there's no one-size-fits-all solution to recovery from addiction. Reading scriptures, counseling with a kind bishop, and being welcomed back to a loving family—along with more professional support from a good therapist or an accredited rehabilitation program or groups like AA or NA—those are just a few of the tools that God has put in our path as we seek a life of wholeness and freedom. And it is a life of freedom that Claire discovered. One of my favorite moments from her story was when she stopped having that desire to shoplift. Her description of what it felt like to finally be free of the worry that someone would chase her down out of a store, well, I could practically feel the lightness that she talked about. I remember a story I heard in stake conference a long time ago about a man who was in law school, and he was poor as most graduate students are. And it meant that every single nickel counted most of the time. And there was a salad bar in the cafeteria that charged extra for bacon bits and anything else delicious that you might want on a salad because, let's be honest, salads are only delicious with a million toppings. And so because many of his colleagues were in the same boat as him, they would pile the toppings on the bottom and then cover it with lettuce to get the cheaper price. Of course, it was tempting to this man to want to do the same. And his classmates actually thought it was really stupid of him not to take advantage of the salad bar loophole. And one day, it got to be too much. He was really getting tired of his bacon-bitless salad and he decided it wasn't really going to hurt anyone if just this once he got that bacon and covered it up. And as he was scooping the beautiful, salty goodness onto the bottom of a salad bowl, he heard a voice. It was a quiet, small voice but it said, "Will you sell your honesty for 25 cents? Will you sell your honesty for some bacon bits?" And he put those scoops of bacon back and contented himself with his boring old salad. But I remember that he said that this was a moment of decision for him that affected the rest of his life. Would he sell his honesty for bacon bits? Would he sell it for a million dollars? The answer from that moment on was, "No." Most of us aren't going to be blessed with a strong or even a quiet voice to clearly warn us about the dangers of the little dishonesties and lies that permeate our days and lives. And we know that it's hard to be completely and totally honest at all times, and in all places, especially in a society that values the white lie. I mean, listen, you and I both know that if I slave over that new, complicated recipe and you hate it, I'm going to be thrilled if you lie to me and tell me that you loved it. But we can start our journey toward that commandment to be true and faithful in all things by committing to be completely honest with ourselves first, to see ourselves and our place in the world as it really is and not just how we want it to be. In the Church's Addiction Recovery Program, which is modeled after Alcoholics Anonymous, the first step to any lasting change of heart and behavior revolves around honesty. Admit that you of yourself are powerless to overcome, fill in the blank, and that your life has become unmanageable. And guess what my friends, that's all of us. Whether you struggle with an addiction or not, not one of us can do this life without God's grace and mercy and guidance. But we're not left to do that on our own. Seeing things as they really are and then living a life of honest, self-appraisal is both a commandment and a gift from God. The prophet Ammon understood this when he spoke these words in Alma, chapter 26, verses 11 and 12. He said, "I do not boast in my own strength, nor in my own wisdom, but behold, my joy is full. Yea, my heart is brimming with joy and I will rejoice in my God, yea, I know that I am nothing, as to my strength, I am weak. Therefore, I will not boast of myself, but I will boast of my God, for in his strength, I can do all things." There is choice involved in our effort to live honestly. But if we want it, if we're willing, He's going to help us accomplish it. And when that self appraisal leads to action, and we need strength to send the Facebook message, or make the phone call admitting that we lied about the toolbox, or we need the courage to walk into the bishop's office to confess and forsake the years of our deception, we will not be alone. And in His strength, and our weakness, we can do all things. That's it for this episode of "This Is the Gospel," thank you to our storytellers, Lindsey, Tyler and Claire for sharing their true and honest stories with us. We'll have more info about our storytellers, as well as a transcript of this episode in our show notes at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. You can also find us on social media on Facebook and Instagram @thisisthegospel_podcast, come find us there. Are you as thrilled to listen to these stories as we are to share them with you? Well, if so, tell us all about it. Leave a review on Apple or Stitcher or wherever you listen. It really does help other people to discover the podcast more easily. And I get to read every review. And I sincerely feel all the good feelings to learn the way these stories are blessing your lives. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. All of the stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. And of course, if you have a story to share and want to become one of our storytellers, please call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. You'll have three minutes to tell us all about your story and what it has taught you about the gospel of Jesus Christ. We found both stories for this episode from our pitch line and we love to hear how the gospel of Jesus Christ is changing your life. Call 515-519-6179 to leave us a message. This episode was produced by me, KaRyn Lay, with additional story production and editing from Erika Free. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at Six Studios, our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom and you can find all the past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at ldsliving.com/podcasts. Have a great week! Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this episode: After her elderly father passes away, LuAnne finds herself in the thick of cleaning out his home as she struggles to know what to let go of and what to keep; Jessie receives her inheritance a little early only to lose it just when it was needed most; After a string of disappointments, Miya is surprised to discover the resilience she longs for in the form of two pieces of paper from a beloved ancestor. Show notes:   To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel Transcript:  KaRyn  0:03  Welcome to This is the Gospel, an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay. So help me out. I cannot be the only one who has a highly developed internal fantasy in the style of Great Expectations, where a previously unknown relative of unimaginable wealth shows up at my door with the life changing news that I am the heir to their vast fortune. And from that moment forward, I pay all my bills without juggling anything, and I add avocado to every salad and every sandwich — devil may care about the additional cost. Is it just me? Okay. All right. That's fine. Nothing to see here, folks. I think it might actually have been this fantasy that got me thinking about today's theme. When you push through all the worldly ideas about wills and rich uncles and millions of dollars, this idea of an inheritance is as deeply ingrained in the gospel of Jesus Christ as just about anything. Mentions of heirs and heritage and inheritance are everywhere in the scriptures. And in fact, one of my all-time favorite scriptures, Romans 8:17, has the Apostle Paul reminding us all that we are children of God, and if we're children of God, then we are also heirs to His throne, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. I just love that idea. I come back to it again and again, when I'm worried that all that will ever get handed down to me are some genetically soft teeth — I'm serious, they're made of chalk — and a penchant for drama. Well, today, we've got three storytellers who are surprised by the things that are handed down to them. And the way that that inheritance changes their perspective on the things that matter most. Our first story of inheritance comes from LuAnne, who worked her way through a mountain of memories to find that what her parents actually left her belonged to her all along. Here's LuAnne. LuAnne  2:03  My three brothers and my sister and I are gathered around the kitchen table of our childhood. We've come in from three time zones, and we've gathered for the weekend. We haven't been together as siblings for — probably since our first brother left home for college. So this is unusual. The reason that we're gathered here today is that my dad has passed away eight weeks previously, and we're here to make a plan to sell his house and to distribute his belongings. And we lost our mom 12 years prior to this time. With my dad, though, 12 years later, we, we lost him and he'd been struggling with Parkinson's disease for three years. And even though five of us are gathered, it feels really empty. My siblings and I are sitting around the kitchen table. And actually, we kind of just fell into our spots that we had in our childhood of where we ate dinner. And it's daunting because we're going through the things of my dad's lifetime, and my mom's lifetime and we're deciding are we going to donate something? Are we going to hang on to it? If so, who gets it? You know, we've seen other families go through this process and have a lot of conflict and leave where they're not friends or close anymore. And that was something that we that we didn't want. And we decided we wanted to try to make a plan that would be impartial and non-emotional. We knew that we were all filled with emotions, we were all grieving still. We didn't really think it was possible to take out all our emotions from this process, but we did want to try to have a process that would try to minimize those misunderstandings that we thought would be happening because we all were coming with so many emotions. And we sat there and we started with a prayer. And the way we did our picks is we each choose a color and that color was equivalent to the first pick, the second pick, the third pick — on down. Like we have things sectioned out like quilts, family keepsake quilts, and we had figurines and we had furniture and so we each would choose something in the group of items. And then after we'd gone through our picks, then we would snake through. So number five would be number one. And then every so often, we would redo our drawing just so the same people weren't getting the first pick in every group of items. And so we did start going through things and we could tell as we went through things, what they cared about by how they kept it. For instance, my dad's Navy uniform is dry cleaned. All three dress and casual uniforms are dry cleaned and hanging in his closet in a bag. We also found things that weren't, weren't so cared for like his files, he may have a birth certificate and a file along with a grocery store receipt. And some other thing that we would have thrown away. Or, the drawer with the kitchen utensils had kind of odd things in the drawer, so that wasn't really something he cared about. The Navy uniform, carefully kept. One thing that my parents kept was Swiss bells that they hung on the wall. And part of our heritage is our grandparents came from Switzerland. And our parents had gone on a trip to Switzerland and then came home with these bells and hung them on the wall. That was by the backdoor. So we all remember as kids, you know, making the bells ring as we ran out the door — in or out the door, we often just kind of did that as habit. To see and discover the things that my dad cared about and my mom cared about too, um, was kind of like a treasure hunt. It was putting together memories, my own memories that I had, but also stories that I heard. And putting the pieces of our life story felt like a treasure hunt to me. I started to understand the role these belongings played. The first and most obvious one is probably the belonging or whatever item reminded me of my mom or my dad, either something they had made by my mom and made by hand or my dad carefully selected it at a furniture store, or maybe he had redone it, and it could take us to our mom and dad, but also, I realized that it was a memory, for me, of who I was as a little child. And how my mom and dad made me feel as a little child. How they made me feel safe, and secure and loved. And so – an object could mean a whole lot more than – as important as that was, it was the memory of my mom and my dad, but I found that it was a memory of who I was. And who I was as part of this family, and that I belonged. And that – even the feeling of being a little child where your parents take care of you and you're not the adult out fighting in the world and making decisions and making adult decisions for your dad's life or death decisions for, for his care. And so I found that the objects took me back to being a cared for, loved, little child. Sometimes we're in business mode of going through things. And other times just one – something would hit us. Like when my brothers were carrying buckets of wheat from the basement to take to the garage to get rid of, I walked into my parents bedroom. They have a big master closet, and this is the place where their personal items have always been. Their clothing – they've kept family heirlooms like quilts that both grandmas have made, they've kept the tape recording of my sister's funeral. They've kept things that are special to them. And it's been full of their memories and memories that we had of them. But when I walked into the room by myself into this empty closet, that, to me, was stunning. It was just the sight of this empty closet that had always been full. It took my breath away, and I had to just stand there a moment and feel the finality of this. This is it. You know, this is the last tie to my mom and dad, and it was like shutting the door and walking into my new role. Not as a caregiver, not as a daughter who has parents on the earth, not – but as the you know, the final buffer, the adult for the family – generation one. But that was the, the feeling of just the finality of seeing this empty closet. There was this one item that had emotions around it for more than one of us. This one piece that was the one thing – if I could only choose one thing that I wanted, was this wooden cabinet that I used to open the door and, and I loved the smell of it. The wood smell. So we kept piano music, we kept magazines in there and I used to, as a little kid, open the door and smell. And you know how smells can take you back to smells and music and sounds and sights? And that's something that took me back to the safety and security of my childhood. And so we weren't sure even with all of our planning and processing, we still had emotions, we still had feelings that – that caused some division between us, and we had to walk away. So we walked away. When I walked away, I felt frustrated. And I felt like I thought we had figured out, you know, the process for this and, and so I felt frustrated and, and helpless. And, um, I felt inner turmoil. And so I just had to walk away from the situation, as did everybody else. Monetary stuff is super easy. You divide it, you take the pie and divide it five ways, but things. . . So I was so frustrated that it was about a thing, an item, because we've been through so much, through our childhoods and through caring for our dad and that this, you know, that one thing, this one thing, could cause division. I was worried how our relationship would play out. If we had these emotions and this discord now, would it seep into the future? That was my worry. When you experience loss, or life transitions – this was both – oftentimes you feel isolated, at least I felt isolated. I felt like – I'm the only one. And sometimes when you're in transition, or you have a loss, you just want people to understand you're desperate to be understood, how this feels, and how, you know, it's like standing in the ocean and wave after wave, you're trying to get your footing and the next wave knocks you down. And I realized through this process that my parents have given me a gift that outlast them, and it's the gift of my siblings. I mean, there are times when I see my brother smile, or the way he walks or my sister, how she's sitting at the piano and playing the keys and it takes me to my mom or my dad. And so really, that's what lasts. The things that we've inherited are things and items that we can put in a trunk. But the – their mannerisms or their characteristics or the things they've given us live on in my siblings, and I get to see that. Even with our – the emotions that seemed to cause division, and frustration, we still needed each other and needed to be understood. And that's a gift that, that my parents gave us. It's the gift of my brothers and my sister who feel this loss just as intensely as I do. And just as deeply. And when it's all said and done, it's not a possession. It's not the thing. But it's the belonging and the safety and security and the love that I have for my brothers and for my sister that last. It's not the thing. Um, we – when we gathered back up, you know there were apologies and there was forgiveness and, and we were able to move forward from that. You know, I was lucky I had a mom and dad who loved me. And I never questioned that. I always knew they loved me. And I think because of that it made it easy for me to believe that my Heavenly Parents loved me. And that I have an eternal inheritance. I have a Father who offers me everything He has – not parts and pieces, not things. But He offers me everything He has, and that He's given me gifts to navigate my life right now. And when He offers everything He has, it's even to become like Him. Which I find the things that I was drawn to in my parents’ house reminded me of that same belonging and feeling of safety and security and love. So, the inheritance from my Heavenly Parents is eternal and infinite. And it still helps me when I see the things that I brought home from my parents’ house. See the things that I inherited from them, the objects that take me back to memories of them, but also the feeling of belonging that they created and love and safety and security. In fact, at the end of – at the end of the weekend, it was, of course, a rush. My, my one brother had waited till the last minute to leave for the airport and so we're all, you know, rushing to give him a hug and say goodbye and realize, time’s over. And another brother just took a minute to try to process what had happened. And he said, "You know, we did a hard thing this weekend. We did lots of hard things." And he said, "We didn't do it perfectly. But we did it together." Which I thought was a great, a great summary of what happened. And I think our parents would have been happy with that. KaRyn  14:55  That was my friend LuAnne. I first saw snippets of this story on her social media feed when she was in the process of cleaning out her dad's house, and I immediately wanted to have her share it with us. But as with all stories, timing is just as important as the story itself. And this one – this one needed some time to settle. But when the time was right, we were honored to have the opportunity to help LuAnne tell it. We all hear those stories about families who allow the inheritance or the lack thereof to tear them apart at the seams. And even when everyone has the best intentions, as they did in LuAnne's case, loss and emotion can complicate things. I think that gentle spirit of reconciliation and understanding that settled upon her family is the truest representation of the Spirit of God and His gifts. And how cool to have that deep, new perspective, that in the end, it's those family relationships that are our true and eternal birthright. Our next story comes from Jessie who received her inheritance a little bit early, only to misplace it. Here's Jessie. Jessie  16:00  So about five years ago, I inherited my mom's wedding ring early. I was cleaning the church with my husband and my family. And I ended up looking down and realized that my diamond had somehow, in the cleaning of the church, been vacuumed up or disappeared. It just wasn't there. And so I was talking to my mom about it. And she said, “I happen to have my mom's wedding ring and if you want, you can have the one that your dad gave me.” And so – graciously and excitedly, I took that ring and it became my own. Which was, timing wise, really sweet because later that year, my dad was diagnosed with vascular dementia, which quickly started spiraling to Alzheimer's. The ring was designed for my mom by my dad and so I loved it. It was beautiful and it was a piece of both of them with me all the time. And since I was across the country from them, I really appreciated having a little bit of my family with me all the time. I clean offices for a little extra money on the side and I often have a habit of tucking my ring inside my pocket when I clean, just to keep it protected, and also because sometimes the chemicals can irritate my hands. I misplaced the ring a few times, but I usually find it pretty quickly in a pocket or on the washing machine. However, there was one time about a year and a half ago that I could not find it. Off and on, I would pray for the ring. I would look in all the normal spots, check pockets, look in drawers and cabinets. I would even get a wild hair and check all the pockets in all my drawers and in all my coats, but no ring. I would wait a bit and pray again and then start the whole process over again. As time went on, I began looking in less likely places like the car or the windowsills, in extra drawers around lamps, like anywhere I could think of – I would look for this ring, but still no ring. By this time, I was traveling a few times a year back home to help take care of my dad and spend time with my parents and give my mom a well-deserved caregiver’s break. I was also giving myself some much-needed time to make memories and say goodbye to my dad. At one point I had a deep conversation with God. I realized that it was possible that maybe I had really lost the ring. Um, I had donated some pants that wouldn't ever fit again to Goodwill and I thought that possibly the ring was gone. That I had accidentally donated it. Fast forward about six months – my mom had called and said that Dad was really sick, she asked us to pray that he would make it to Christmas because we were all planning on spending Christmas with my parents as a last hurrah with my dad on this side of the veil. Again, I took to my knees and asked for help to find the ring. I wanted to give it back to my mom, so she could have her ring when Dad passed. I thought, you know, “If, if anyone knows where the ring is, my Heavenly Father does, and God can help me find it.” I believed that He could send angels that would help bring it home. And so, so I put that prayer out there and then kind of forgot about it. Let it be for a while. Prayers were answered and we were able to spend a wonderful holiday with my family. We made lots of memories and lit my mom's home up with laughter and noise. Little did we know that while we were in Idaho, a little mouse was on the job. Upon our arrival home, my oldest daughter found a hole in her stuffed animal. It was one of those diffuser animals that you heat up and it diffuses essential oils. Well anyway, that tiny creature had spread flax from one end of our house to another. We had opened so many drawers to put away laundry and every time, we would find a little corner full of flaxseed. I was bound and determined to clear out the flax and took a day to clean every nook and cranny. About a week before my dad passed, I was cleaning out the bathroom closet, and found yet another stash of flax. Armed with cleaners and a trash bag, I began throwing away boxes of stuff we haven't used in years. I felt like I should look in that last box one more time to see if there wasn't anything in the box that I might not want to throw away. And the right-hand corner, closest to me, tucked under the flap – was my ring. I think it's beautiful that Heavenly Father used that little mouse to help me find the ring. I know that He is a God of miracles, and that sometimes those miracles take time. And sometimes they don't look the way we think they should look. And I know that we inherit more than rings and things. I'm grateful for the inheritance of faith. For my mom and dad teaching me to ask God for the desires of my heart, and to believe that with God, all things are possible. Even finding your ring. KaRyn  21:46  That was Jessie. Jessie shared her story with us on the pitch line. And though I have never met her, she is clearly my soul sister. Losing something important feels really, really, real to me, and I can just feel her pain and that longing to find that ring again so she can honor her parents. And I think what I'm going to take from this story is the reminder that while like Jessie said, the real inheritance isn't a thing, I think our Father in heaven does use these earthly things to teach us about the Eternal One sometimes. The things we receive, the things we lose, the things we find, and the things we give back, become our spiritual preparation for the things that we will inherit forever. Our final story today comes from Miya, whose rich family heritage of storytelling helped her to find her own narrative through her hardship. Here's Miya. Miya  22:51  I come from a big family. I'm the oldest of five children, but I had many cousins around me growing up. My family is Polynesian. My dad is full Samoan, and my mom, she is Hawaiian and Japanese. A typical gathering of my extended family involved a giant, easy-corner tent, made in my grandmother's driveway, and all the cars being parked on the grass outside of the driveway, so that the children had space to play, whether it was basketball or riding on their scooters. And then underneath the tent, we had those big tables dedicated just to food, but then also other tables dedicated for the adults and the children to gather to talk with one another, but then also to play games. So we played cards or some board games. And that was just typical, we would have that almost every weekend. I loved it. Being a part of a big family, the stories that I heard and were told were always around us, constantly being shared and constantly in my mind, and in my heart. I remember distinctly hearing these stories of my family – of those living and dead – in my bed where my dad would come to my room and sit me down. And he would tell me the story of how my mom and dad met and how they fell in love. And then he would tell me the stories of his grandparents, how they came to America from Samoa. And he would tell me stories of his upbringing with his mother, his mom being a single mom, his parents divorced. He would also tell me two Samoan legends of the islands and how they came to be. My favorite story was the story of the shark and the turtle, and how that legend still lives today. So the legend of the shark and the turtle – there's multiple variations, but the one that I, I was told the most is a story of an old grandma and a little girl who lived in a village. And they were teased because the grandma was blind. And because they were treated so poorly, the little girl wanted to leave the village with her grandma and find somewhere else to live. So together, they got into a canoe at nighttime so that no one would see them disappear. And as they got in the canoe started paddling away, a giant storm came up, and it tipped the canoe over. And both the grandma and the granddaughter were drowning. And the gods took pity on them and to save them because of their love for one another, they turned them into a shark and a turtle. And to this day, you can see where the shark and the turtle are at this point at a beach in Samoa. You can sing the song to them and a shark and a turtle will appear and swim right there in front of you. But the story cautions too, that you cannot point your finger at them because that would remind them of being teased and being outcast and so they'll swim away and they'll never hear you or come back to you ever again. My dad was trying to teach me several lessons one, that it's important to be nice to people and that we should treat people with love and respect. And two, that familial piety is stronger than death. It's stronger than anything in this world. And it can keep you and your loved ones safe and close to your heart, no matter where you go. And those stories, they stuck with me throughout my youth and into my adulthood as well. They are still part of me. Growing up, I always hoped that I would have a family of my own. I always wanted to be married, I always wanted to have a bunch of children like my family does. I knew that if there was a tribe around me, I would never ever be alone. And that was something that I feared growing up was being left out or being alone. So having an automatic family around you was what I desired and needed. And as I grew up, even though I had plans, I recognize that a lot of times those plans didn't happen the way I wanted them to. And to be real, it was very frustrating. And it still is frustrating. Sometimes it's like what's the point of a plan if they don't happen the way you want them to? Some examples include, I went to BYU Provo, specifically to major in piano performance. That didn't happen. My wrist gave out because I practiced so much, and a dream that I had since I was a little girl of performing at Carnegie Hall was put to rest. And then I moved forward with my life and decided to serve a full-time mission. And I was happily called to one of the homelands of my ancestors, which was Japan. And growing up in Hawaii, I was around a lot of Japanese people and I figured that I'd be just fine in Japan because of my upbringing. But as I went out there, I struggled so much with – not only the language, but the culture. And I even struggled with an eating disorder out there. I was severely depressed and anxious, and all of that led to me deciding on my 21st birthday, to leave my mission behind at seven-and-a-half months to go home and take care of myself. I clearly did not have that in my plans. But even in the midst of my disappointments, there were still a lot of blessings and grace there in my life. One of them being I found my husband, my sweetheart, and we got married. When my husband and I were engaged, we were doing our family planning. We were expecting that in a few years, we would start having children, especially after school. And so, as we agreed upon this, we both went to the temple together. And I received a distinct prompting that I needed to have a child immediately. And so, nine months later, literally nine months later, I gave birth to our little boy. So, we planned it, but also it wasn't part of the plan. Yeah. So in terms of having a big family, I thought that because I got pregnant right away that this would be very simple to have a big family. And so we were in the plans and in the works of making that happen still. We had been trying for quite some time to have more children. And nothing was happening, which was a shock because we had our son right away. Why wasn't I getting pregnant again, quickly, like before? It already was a long day, I was tired from trying to balance life. In this pandemic, and working from home, when I received the news that it's highly likely that we won't have a family. I realized quickly that the big gatherings, the big celebrations, the base-support system, that village-like mentality and experience slipped away from me – from hearing that news. And that fear of feeling like I would be alone and my son would be alone was very real. And the thing that I didn't want, was made more of a reality. My conversations with Heavenly Father involved a lot of frustration, where I explained to Him, “I am confused why this is being denied for me, and I want answers.” And the answer that came to me was, “You need to look into the story of your ancestor, Taka Miyamoto,” who I'm named after. And so I logged on to Family Search and I typed in her name, “Taka Miyamoto,” into a general search to see if there were any records that I did not have of her. And as I was scrolling through my search results, I saw that her name was listed under two death certificates. One death certificate naming two twins who both died as stillborns, and then the second death certificate was of another stillborn. And the dates were the same year. And as I saw those death certificates, my heart knew that her, her experience was – as heartbreaking as it was – I needed to find that connection to her through that experience, that her story was going to be the healing point for me to know that I was not alone in these hard times and in this heartache. I knew then that God answered my prayer that, even though this was a good thing, even though having a family is a wonderful thing, that sometimes, even when things don't happen the way they you want them to, He's still there. He still loves us and is still, still has His hands outstretched towards us. That even in the trials and hardships we go through. We have – we've been blessed with resiliency from Him and from our ancestors. Even though I don't know what she did after she had these traumatic experiences, I've just felt in my heart that she still carried herself through those hard times. She still picked herself up and moved forward because she knew she still has something to live for, which was the other children that she did have. The other people that she was around – her husband, her friends, the community. She was still there for them. And their stories of her being such a wonderful, wonderful grandmother, and loving her grandchildren and being present there for them. Even though she couldn't speak English that well – she only spoke Japanese – she still was present. Because she lived, because she carried herself through – I knew that this was a woman of resilience. I'm proud to be a descendant of her. I like to say that I've inherited all of her resilience, but I know that her resilience needs to be shared with everybody else in the family too. But yeah, I like to believe that I've received and gladly have flowing within all the veins of my body, her resiliency, every last bit of it. So recently in my research, I learned this concept of how my ancestors reckoned with time and space. And the way they viewed time was that the future was behind them, and the past was in front of them, so what has already happened is what we can see clearly. It is before us – as in – in front of us. But what we can't see is naturally behind us, we'd have to turn around to look, right? And so when it comes to my ancestors, because they have already gone before me, they are in front of me, guiding me and showing me what I cannot see, which is my future. They're, they're there to prepare me for what I can't see. They're there to teach me what they have already been taught. They're there to walk me through these things that are coming my way. And as I listen to them, and as I seek them out, our hearts are connected. And my ability to move and to endure through life is strengthened because they have done it already, and they're showing me the way. It's my job to listen, to be taught, and to hear them, and to follow them. They're right there in front of me. Now, I think about the story my dad taught me, about the shark and the turtle – I think about it often. And now I know that my love for my family will carry me through any storm, will be there for me no matter what happens in my life. That as I am there swimming with my ancestors, through my life's journey, they will always be there with me. I'll never ever have to fear being alone. No matter how many children I have or don't have, they will always, always be there with me. Their love will carry me through anything in my life. KaRyn  37:21  That was Miyamoto Jensen. I follow her Instagram account the Polynesian Genealogist and when I reached out to her about sharing a story on the podcast, I wasn't sure what theme would emerge from the story she had to tell. So we talked for a long time about her life and her family and her gifts, and there was this sacred moment in our conversation when she spoke of the Spirit’s gentle nudge towards the stories of her ancestors, and we both knew that that was the heart of her story. I love how she described that our ancestors are behind us and before us. And though we're the progeny now, we will someday be the ancestors. And how we connect with God in the here and now is a gift from those who've come before us, and a gift to those who will come next. You know, at this point, I've all but given up hope of that surprise, wealthy relative who makes me the sole beneficiary of an estate worth just enough money to pay off my student loans because I was the only one who remembered to send a birthday card last year. First of all, I'm terrible at remembering birthdays, so that would never actually happen. But also, if we've learned anything from today's stories, it's that expanding our definition of inheritance will draw us closer to our true destiny. Money, rings, land, desirable physical genetics, those really can be life changing. But when the prophets, and the scriptures, and the Savior tell us that we can inherit all that the Father has, they're not talking about a yacht. They aren't talking about a life of ease and creature comforts, and those mansions they refer to all the time – to be honest, I don't even think that's a thing in heaven. I don't think we'll even want it. I think when they talk about "All that the Father has," they're talking about us. They're talking about you, and they're talking about me – His family, His children. We are His work and His glory, and our eternal salvation is his holiest effort. We're the whole reason that any of these things exist in the first place. These worlds, this organized matter. And when we receive our true inheritance, I think we're going to see that it has everything to do with becoming like Him in love for the whole human family. Can you imagine inheriting a heart that is able to fully love the way God's does? Or being given a singular focus towards the salvation of others instead of having to worry about our self-preservation? Now that's an inheritance I could really do something with. And while we're here on earth, we practice to receive a perfect heart like Gods by consciously choosing to turn our own imperfect hearts, by forgiving and reconciling with our siblings, despite our own high emotions, by praying, hopefully to find the ring so that we can present it as a healing offering, by calling upon the shared faith and resilience of our ancestors to help us through our faithless moments. We practice and we practice and we practice some more, until we can start to see the shine of our true birthright, peeking through the earth dust. I'm not getting a check any time soon. And I'm starting to be okay with that. Because if I can work towards that day, when I get to have all that the Father has, all that my Father has, then I believe that that work, and a little bit of grace will make His inheritance – the terms of his inheritance – everything I've ever wanted, and more. That's it for this episode of This is the Gospel. Thank you to LuAnne, Jessie and Miya for sharing their inheritance and their stories with us. We'll have pictures and more information about each of our storytellers in our show notes at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. To get more great storytelling content throughout the week, you should also find us on Facebook and Instagram @Thisisthegospel_podcast. We share pictures, behind the scenes info, and more there. And if you love hearing stories as much as we love helping people tell them, please consider writing a review for us on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. Every review helps other people find us more easily in the land of podcasts, and that helps us to be able to keep telling the stories that move us. And seriously, thank you for telling all your friends about us. We love seeing how you spread the good stuff. If you have a story to share about living the gospel, please call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. We often find many of our stories from that pitch line and we love to hear how the gospel is blessed your life. Call 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. You can find more information about the pitch line and how to put together a great pitch by going to our Instagram and finding the pitch line in the highlights. This episode was produced by me, KaRyn Lay, with additional story producing and editing by Erika Free and Kelly Campbell. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at 6 Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at ldsliving.com/podcasts.   Show Notes + Transcripts: http://ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories in this Episode: Sarah and KaRyn share lessons learned from their very first storytelling project over 15 years ago when they invited accomplished, faithful women (like Emma Lou Thayne, Ariel Bybee, Liz Lemon Swindle, Olene Walker) into their living rooms; Leslie, Claire, Cari, Tennisa, & Emily give us 2 minute stories of letting the Lord lead from the start of our THIS IS THE GOSPEL video series. SHOW NOTES To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel TRANSCRIPT KaRyn Lay  0:00  Hello from my home office, which is really just my desk by a window in my stepkids' room that I have commandeered during the social distancing. They're thrilled, as you can imagine, to wake up at eight every day so that I can get to work. But I actually think that my daily occupation of their rooms speaks to the reality of parenting and family and relationships during these tricky times—flexibility, creativity, figuring out what works for your unique situation—well, that's the order of the day. And we hope that you are finding your groove and whatever way you can. We're certainly trying to do that with the podcast, and while we gear up for season three, over the next few months, we're still going to bring you a few bonus episodes that just can't wait until we get back into a recording studio. And so today, we've got a quarantine edition of the podcast with some stories that celebrate the ways that women rely on the Lord and the many roles, including motherhood, that they inhabit throughout their lives.   Welcome to This Is The Gospel, an LDS living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host KaRyn Lay.   First step, a few stories within a story within a conversation. This Is The Gospel producer, Sarah Blake, and I recently recorded a conversation we had where we tried to remember all the details from the very first, but clearly not the last storytelling project that we embarked on together over 15 years ago.   I don't exactly remember when we decided, A: to call them the gatherings, and then B:I how did it even happen?   Sarah  1:43  I don't remember either because motherhood has erased so much of my memory, but I think it was 2004 or 2005. We were single in our single sport in Salt Lake.   KaRyn Lay  1:56  Yes, everything starts with us being single.   Sarah  1:58  I know. Side note about that though, the years that we were single that felt like a curse have become one of the greatest blessings and like, to me, it's a constant whenever something hard is going on. I'm like, well, that one big one turned out to be the greatest blessing. So I can trust this one will work out too.   KaRyn Lay  2:17  Agreed.   Sarah  2:18  Okay, so we were single in our singles ward, trying to find our way. Right?   KaRyn Lay  2:23  I think at that point, I kind of was like, not that I was giving up. But I, I sort of had the sense that I was going to be single for a while. Like, I was always hopeful. I loved falling in love, but I, I leaned into it, I leaned into a little bit to like, Okay, if I'm going to be a cat lady, who's just sort of doing life on my own, then, like, we better figure out the best way to be single. That's kind of what I think I remember us talking about.   Sarah  2:52  Yeah, but you never did get the cat. So that was that was a hopeful gesture to not...   KaRyn Lay  2:57  That was. I babysat someone else's cat and lost it on the first night that I had it. But where it wasn't actually lost, it was actually just asleep in one of the drawers of my apartment, but I freaked out and called everybody and made them help me look for this kitten that I thought I had lost. So after that I realized being a cat lady was probably not in my future. Until now. Now I have a cat.   Sarah  3:21  Now you have a cat. Go figure.   KaRyn Lay  3:23  I actually think you were the one who had the idea.   Sarah  3:26  I was, yeah. I had the idea first and, and we had a meeting at your apartment.   KaRyn Lay  3:33  I don't even remember this. I don't remember that.   Sarah  3:36  Yeah, we had a meeting in your apartment and you made us a really nice dessert. And we all sat and talked about it. The idea was I felt like I needed to hear from more women. I needed more examples of what it looks like to be a faithful woman. Especially because we were single. I, at least, didn't have any examples in my family of what it looks like to be single in your 20's. Everyone else had gotten married and had kids, and I was like, am I okay? And how do I do this? But also just about how to be a woman, and a faithful woman? And I wanted not just to read about it in a book, but I wanted to talk to someone and ask questions and stuff, right? So we made the list of women we admired that we wish we could talk to.   KaRyn Lay  4:18  I feel like we had an Excel document or something that we packed in all of the names of people that we— this was before Google Docs, so we were we were old school—   Sarah  4:27   Hard to believe.   KaRyn Lay  4:28  I know—old school spreadsheeting it. And we had, like, a list of, we just kept adding to it like Latter-day Saint women that we admired and that we thought were really cool. And then we we decided to just ask them.   Sarah  4:41  And then we started sending them letters—like old school, typed up letters, put in an envelope and mailed it off. Some of them we just found in the phonebook, I think and others we had a contact or someone who knew someone, and then people were so gracious and responded. And when we started having these awesome women come and speak to a gathering of some of our friends like 20 to 30 people just at our houses.   KaRyn Lay  5:06  Who was the first person that came? Because I think after we had the first couple, that's when we were like, Oh, we can pretty much invite anyone we want. But why wouldn't we? We'll just play the sad, single, like late 20s cards.   Sarah  5:21  Help us find our way. So, the first one was Carmen Pingree, who was an advocate for children with autism in Utah, and the first school for children with autism in Utah was named for her because of all her tireless efforts.   KaRyn Lay  5:38  Were you the way invited her Sarah?   Sarah  5:40   I invited her because she was my boss's mom. And I'd met her and I was less scared to do that. But she was wonderful. And then we had Emma Lou Thayne, the poet.   KaRyn Lay  5:54  Yeah, Emma probably one of my favorites. Like, just that whole conversation with her. She was so gracious. I actually dug up my journal from that time because when we would sit there with them,   Sarah  6:06  We didn't have a good way to record it. So we just did notes.   KaRyn Lay  6:09  We did. Actually do you know who was before Emma Lou? Sally Mart, she was somebody that I knew from Pennsylvania, and I think you said that you weren't there, right Sarah?   Sarah  6:19  I had strep throat. I didn't want to get her kids sick, so I couldn't go.   KaRyn Lay  6:23  She was a nurse. She couldn't have children of her own. So she adopted all of these special needs kids from all over the world. And then she was diagnosed with either stage three or stage four cancer. And I remember her saying that when she got the diagnosis, somebody took her kids for the day, and she went into the bedroom and she got down on her knees, and she said, to Heavenly Father, "If we're going to do this, let's make it a doozy." I remember that she used the word doozy, and I was like, "What is she talking about?" She said, "Oh, I loved having breast cancer." She said, "I talked to the Lord and I said, 'I want to learn every possible thing that I can from this experience so don't hold back Heavenly Father, do not hold back on me. Give everything that you've got to me so that I can do whatever it is that you need me to do, to become the woman that you want me to become.'" And I have never heard anybody talk about a trial that way before in my life. And it felt so like, it was shocking and exciting, and it kind of blew my mind and and I, I just realized, Oh, I want to be like Sally, I want to be fearless how fearless of her right?   Sarah  7:33  Yeah.   KaRyn Lay  7:33  How trusting of God's infinite grace that even when she's got all these kids to take care of, she recognizes that this is going to only work if she learns what she needs to learn from it and I,  I've never forgotten that.   Sarah  7:47  It makes me sad. I missed that one. So then we had we had Olene Walker, the first female governor of Utah.   KaRyn Lay  7:55  I wasn't there for Olene so you'll have to tell me what you learned from Olene.   Sarah  7:58  I loved her. I like loved her sense of humor and her perspective that she had from her years of life. And one of the big things that stuck out to me, and I apologize, to Olene and her sentence if I mess up in your stories, but she talked about—she got married and her husband was in grad school, and they had seven kids in 11 years and moved 13 times, or something like that. And she survived all that, and she said it was just a blur. And then when that was over, and they were somewhere stable, she started a PhD when her youngest was two. She's always been a person who didn't need a ton of sleep. So she would help you know, be the mom all day, help her kids with their homework, get them in bed and then start her homework, and do her homework and studying until about two in the morning, and then sleep for four hours and then start the whole thing again. And she was like, "I don't—not that I recommend that to anyone else. But it worked okay for me."   KaRyn Lay  8:53  What has that done for your life?   Sarah  8:55  Well, that's my schedule now, I'm embarrassed to say. But mostly, you know, the thing that I think it was Olene who said this the most clearly, but all of the women said it in one way or another. And this was exactly the kind of guidance I was looking for was this: that in women's lives in particular, there are seasons in your life. And you have to embrace the seasons and accept that, and recognize you can't have it all at the same time. But over the course of your life, you can have it all if you accept the seasons as they come. So like the season of having small children is an intensive, demanding season, and you can't do all the other things at that time. This season of being single is a different kind of opportunity to grow and focus on your own relationship with the Lord. But I think they really showed us by the example of their own lives that if you make the most of whatever season you're in, that's the way to be your best self.   KaRyn Lay  9:52  Yeah. Do you remember Ariel Bybee coming?   Sarah  9:56  A famous opera singer?   KaRyn Lay  9:57  Yes, Ariel Bybee was a famous Latter-day saint opera singer. This is something I won't ever forget. She went around the room after we heard her tell about her life and about all the things that she had learned spiritually. And she asked us, "What are you passionate about?" And she waited for every single woman in that room to answer and we all did, right? I can't remember what I said about what I was passionate about is probably creativity or something. Do you remember?   Sarah  10:24  No, I don't remember what I said. It was probably humanitarian stuff. That's what I did then.   KaRyn Lay  10:29  Yeah. And, and at the end of it, it came back to Ariel and she looked us all I felt likeshe looked every single one of us into our souls like bore into our souls and she said, "Whatever you do, do not, do not do it with mediocrity." She said, "If you are passionate about it, you put your whole soul into that. The world has enough mediocrity. It has enough mediocre art. It needs women who can create with excellence." And I was like, "Ahhhhh." And I don't know if I've lived up to Arial's—   Sarah  11:08  I know, I'm like, "Oh sorry, I'm sorry, Ariel."   KaRyn Lay  11:11  But also, I think there's something beautiful about that, right? Like Ariel's words and Sally's words and Olene's words combined, that there is a season for everything, that God is going to tutor us through them, and that when we're in that season to put our whole soul into it. Like what a cool life plan those women gave us.   Sarah  11:34  Yes. The other thing I think they all spoke about how they were surprised with where they ended up. When you're young you think I'm going to go to medical school and be a doctor you think you have this plan and then this is it and life doesn't ever hardly ever work out that way. Right? We all end up on surprise paths and discover we had a talent we didn't realize or a passion we didn't understand, and, or we're just given an opportunity and sometimes the opportunity looks like a challenge, right? But then it becomes the center of your life's work. And the way to find your best path is by trusting that it's part of God's plan and that those surprises are meant to be.   KaRyn Lay  12:13  What else without that experience do you think you'll take forever?   Sarah  12:16  So I remember in particular, Emily saying, telling the story of when she wrote the lyrics to where can I turn for peace?   KaRyn Lay  12:22  Yeah.   Sarah  12:23  She was struggling with a challenge with one of her kids who was having a really hard time. And she was on the phone with a friend while she did laundry in her laundry basement, and this inspiration hit in the laundry room, like she grabbed a piece of paper, and they co-wrote it together. Inspired by the pain, she was feeling suffering for her daughter. So many of them gave really specific details of the mundane things of life, which are, I mean, there's mundane details for everyone but women's lives often are especially like that stuff is ever present with us the burden of the dishes. The laundry and where did people leave their shoes, and they all mentioned those things and, but with a kind of reverence sometimes that made me feel like the good stuff of life can happen any day, anywhere, in the in your laundry room when you're talking to your friend.   KaRyn Lay  13:16  Here's what I have written in my journal about that.   Sarah  13:18  Yeah.   KaRyn Lay  13:19  It says, "Where can I turn for peace, personal anguish for this beautiful piece of art that has touched and healed so many broken hearts. We are all connected and our life's work is not ours alone."   Sarah  13:31  Yeah.   KaRyn Lay  13:31  I don't know if Emma Lou said that, but that's what I took.   Sarah  13:34  That's what you took from it. It was just so many testaments that the worst times in your life can end up being the best, the greatest blessings that God can turn anything to our good to bless His children. And if we just try to be open to being instruments, then He will use us that way.   KaRyn Lay  13:52  Yeah.   Sarah  13:53  Maybe not today, maybe not this week, maybe not for 20 years, but like, it gave me a sense we can look back and be like, "What a cool life of goodness."   KaRyn Lay  14:01  I was thinking to Sarah, I don't know if you remember this, but we were making those lists of all of those, quote unquote famous Latter-day Saint women. And after we'd done a couple, do you remember that we that we were like, "You know what? We need to talk to our moms.   Sarah  14:17  Mmhmm. And then we had your mom come.   KaRyn Lay  14:19  Yeah. My mom came.   Sarah  14:21  I think she's the only mom that we ever managed to get it done with because then we all started moving away.   KaRyn Lay  14:27  To hear my mom in that setting, talking about her life, like, she and I might have had some of those conversations, but to have this formal evening where all of my friends were gathered at the feet of my mom, literally at the feet of my mom, as she talked about the paths that she has walked. It was such a powerful experience.   Sarah  14:51  That was a powerful experience for me too. I really loved that one was your mom—and I think about some of the things she mentioned all the time.   KaRyn Lay  14:58  Well, and the thing about it as my mom hadn't lived what she thought was an extraordinary life.   Sarah  15:03  Mmhm ,but she had so much wisdom as so many, like, just practical wisdom. And she was so funny. And—   KaRyn Lay  15:10  Yeah,   Sarah  15:10  —fresh and real. Like she was sitting like a queen with us literally—we were because we were crowded in a small living room, but you know, all sitting on the floor and the chairs around her. And we're on the feet of this Queen while she talked about how to successfully fight with your husband. You know,I really liked that one.   KaRyn Lay  15:27  When we were talking about the gatherings, I couldn't have anticipated that some of the greatest wisdom that I would get would come from my own mom. Shortly after that, I think we all started moving to foreign countries, and graduate schools, and all over so it was sort of the, the disbanding of the gatherings happened sort of organically just out of necessity.   Sarah  15:52  Yeah.   KaRyn Lay  15:53  You said at the beginning when we started talking about that the idea for the gatherings came because you wanted wisdom from people who maybe had walked different paths than you as you tried to figure yours out. What did that teach you about womanhood and sisterhood?   Sarah  16:10  The gift that that experience gave us was recognizing—we were expecting that there was a right answer, right. There was—   KaRyn Lay  16:16  Yeah.   Sarah  16:16  They were going to tell us some way we were supposed to do stuff. And instead the answer was: you'll find it. Right? And God has got you. And the answer is going to be different for everyone. And it's going to depend on your, the combination of your inspiration, of course, and your talents and gifts that you're supposed to use, and then the opportunities you're given to use them right? And—   KaRyn Lay  16:39  Yeah.   Sarah  16:40  And that we can find it ourselves. But there's no one, there's no one way.   KaRyn Lay  16:46  And, and that honestly each, each of our lives, whether we deem them extraordinary or not, is extraordinary to God.   Sarah  16:55  The meeting with your mom was the one that that brought home to me—everyone has things to teach us, and we tend to have the great men lens on history, like who accomplished a lot, and who has an impressive resume. But anyone, if we sat them in that chair and we sat at their feet and asked them questions like they're an expert on life, because they are, because they've been living can teach us some amazing things.   KaRyn Lay  17:21  Yeah. And there's value in women telling each other our stories, like, I feel like the gatherings set up a foundation for a large part of the rest of my life. I mean, I it's been 15 years since we did that. And I, and I still have the Sally Mart quotes running through my mind. I still have the moment when Ariel Bybee pointed to us and said that, you know? And I still have that feeling of sitting in a room huddled together with 20 women who I admired and loved I still have that feeling that warmth, that feeling of closeness with you, and with the other girls that we did it with. And there's something really powerful about that for me.   Sarah  18:11  Yeah, for me, too. This was good to reminisce.   KaRyn Lay  18:15  I know. I only wish I took better notes. I have no idea what this means.   Sarah  18:19  I only wish I had climbed into the attic to call my journal.   KaRyn Lay  18:25  Maybe next time, Sarah, maybe next time.   I am so grateful to Sarah and our friends Celeste and Carrie for being the catalysts for such an amazing time in my life. I don't know if you're listening. But if you were part of those gatherings, we would love to hear what stuck with you through all these years. And more importantly, we hope that this has inspired all of you to start asking the women in your life to share their stories, in whatever setting makes sense for you right now. We're going to actually have a list of questions that you can use to spark the conversation in our show notes at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. We know that it can feel pretty awkward sometimes to get those things going, so we'll give you a cheat sheet, so that it's easier to make that happen, especially right now when we have a little bit of extra time. You know, long before This Is The Gospel was a storytelling podcast, LDS living produced a series of videos that were also called, This Is The Gospel. They were simple, and they reflected my amateur filmmaking skills at the time. But I still have such a soft spot in my heart for this humble beginning because, even though the music underneath the stories was a little too loud and unbalanced, it was honest and stripped down. People telling their stories to camera, no props, and a funny little stock bumper at the beginning and the end. We limited the time of each of the stories to about two to four minutes to appease the social media attention span. So they're just little bon-bons of faith. And today, I want to share five of those little stories with you from five women who let God lead them and their families through whatever came their way.   Leslie  20:00  My name is Leslie, when my fifth baby was born—my family and I have seven—lived in a two bedroom duplex, we were squeezed in there. And for weeks and months, we tried to find a new situation for our family. We put money down on lots that fell through, we made offers on new homes that fell through, we just couldn't find a new place to live. Nothing seemed to be working out for us. After a while I finally thought maybe I should take this to the Lord and decided to go to the temple. And I went with a faith-filled heart knowing that the Lord would here and hear my plea and answer our prayer. So I went through the session, and nothing happened. I didn't feel anything. It was quiet. And I finished the session, still feeling a little sad because I hadn't felt anything. I really almost felt like the temple ceiling would open in my little address would fly down from the, from the sky and that I would know exactly what was going to become my family situation. And so I went to the celestial room and sat on the couch, feeling a little sad, and I started to weep. And a feeling of warmth and love washed over me as I sat there, feeling so sad. And an assurance and unknowing came. And I heard a voice say, "Leslie, I know you and I love you and all will be well." The voice was familiar to me, and so sweet and I heard it again, "Leslie, I know you and I love you, and all will be well." And I left the temple that night knowing that heaven was aware of my situation, not knowing my new address, but knowing that heaven was aware. The next day was a typical day of a family of seven. My baby was unusually fussy, and I sing him a lullaby before his nap. And I kissed his little cheek and I put that baby down for asleep from which he would never awake. And my experienced in the temple just the day before, it didn't have anything to do with my new address, but everything to do with the sweet assurance from heaven, that I was known to the Father, and that even in my darkest of nights, all would be well. I knew from that experience, that heaven knew my name. And if heaven knows my name, heaven surely knows your name. And this is the gospel to me.   Claire  22:52  My name is Claire, and I'm a good mom. And that's a hard thing for me to say and most days I struggled to remind myself of that This time last year I was in bed in a basement with feeding tubes and IVs. And my husband had just quit school, so that he could take care of me full-time. And even with all of that, I tried to just continue to have faith that everything would work out. That my unborn child would be healthy, that I would be able to function for my husband, and for my baby. And then the day arrived when I gave birth to her, and it was one of the most beautiful days that I can remember. And I thought, "Wow, you know, I have won the good fight. I have fought my hardest and here's the blessings." And I thought that they were just going to come right like pouring. And then two months later, I wound up in the ER, fighting for my life, because I had such strong urges that I needed to end it. That life wasn't worth living that I was a horrible mom. That everyone was better off without me. And from there, I was taken from my family, my husband and my baby girl. To go spend a couple of weeks up in a psychiatric facility, where I learned a lot I learned a lot about myself. And I learned a lot about my testimony. Because I felt utterly alone when I was taken from them and spent that time away from them. But I was reminded that I'm not. I am now on the up and up, I'm progressing and I can't say I'm completely whole yet but I know that because of the sacrifices of Christ and because of the love of my Heavenly Father, I will get there. And that's enough for me. So even when I'm not enough, I know that Christ's love for me is and that's the gospel to me,   Carrie  25:19  I'm Carrie, and I never imagined that the answer to my prayer that morning would be to willingly send my son to prison. I remember saying my morning prayers and pleading with my Heavenly Father, that I wouldn't get the answer that I so desperately needed. That afternoon as we met with our attorney, my husband, my son, and myself, we were facing the decision of whether to go to trial and face a possible 10 year or more sentence or take the plea bargain that had been offered to go to prison for three years. And I knew as we heard that three year prison sentence offered to us that that was a choice. that we needed to take and I knew it from the top of my head to my toes. I knew I had the answer that I had been looking for. And as I thought forward to when they would take him away from us, and they took him bound in bound hand and foot from that courtroom, I wondered how to get past that day, how to move forward. And I think as you hold that new baby in your arms, and you look into their eyes, and you dream of all the places that they'll go, and all the things that you want for them. I know that this is definitely nothing that you ever see for your child. And I wondered, how will I get past this? How will I help him realize his full potential. I want you know that you do get past it and you get past it by praying and by leaning on your Heavenly Father and that he helps you every step of the way. He helped me and he helped my family and he helped my son through those three years. We spent lots of time on the phone. And I had many visits with him there on weekends where we learned more about each other than a lot of moms get to know about their sons and their 20s. We spent lots of time together and I'm grateful for those times. There were times when I wanted to crawl under my bed and and just stay there, and sometimes you do. Sometimes there are days like that, where you have moments where you break down. I wasn't always strong, but you are able to get back up and get out there and and be there for your family and have those good times and find joy in your journey. And I know that this is just a small moment in time, and this is the gospel to me.   Tennissa  27:47  My name is Tennissa. If you worked at the most stress causing events in someone's life you would find among the top: the birth of a child, the death of a parent, the loss of job, and buying and selling of a home. And our family experience these, recently, in the matter of 15 months. Nine months after my daughter was born, and four months after my father in law unexpectedly passed away, my husband got word that he was losing his job. And it just so happened that at that time our house was under contract, because we had decided to move. And the very day that he found out who he was that he was losing his job, was the same day we were making an offer on the perfect home for our family. So needless to say, we didn't make an offer on that perfect home. But we did sell our house, because we felt like Heavenly Father guided us to do that. And after almost six months, we realized why. One of the tender mercies that He gave us was allowing us to live with my mother, who was in need of company after losing her sweetheart. And it was the best possible place for our family to be. And after interviews and searching, and a long, long period of time, our loan officer let us know that if my husband was unemployed much longer, that it would be extremely difficult for us to get a mortgage. And so with lots of prayers and fasting, and begging people for contacts, three months, three days shy of six months what the deadline was, My husband was offered a job. And so as we looked back over that everything felt heavy, and it was it wasn't the easiest thing we've ever been through. But we know by the tiny things along the way that Heavenly Father was aware of us and He provided the direction he needed. And all of the—lined up the timeline and the people and the experiences that we needed to end up where we are. And we've, we've been in our home that we found like three days after my husband got a job for a year and we felt like it was the money pit because so many things have gone wrong. But because of the journey that got us there, and all the tender mercies that Heavenly Father has shown us along the way, we know it's where we're supposed to be and this is the gospel to me.   Emily  30:45  My name is Emily. Several years ago, I found myself sitting in a hospital waiting room, waiting for my two year-old son, Hudson, to be x-rayed for what I thought was just an inner-ear infection. My son, Hudson, was diagnosed with an inoperable glioblastoma, brain tumor. Hudson was given only one year to live. I have such a vivid memory of sitting on Hudson's hospital bed, and his oncologist coming into the room and sitting down and explaining to us that we could do chemotherapy, and radiation, but that the outcome would be the same, that regardless, the tumor would inevitably start to grow and take his life. So she suggested that we just wait it out, that we make him as comfortable as possible over the next year, and that I go home and enjoy the last year with my son. My family and my incredible Bishop met all together together in Hudson's hospital room and gave Hudson a priesthood blessing. And in that priesthood blessing, they told Hudson that Hudson had more faith than all of the people combined in that room. Heavenly Father wanted us to know that we were to do everything medically possible to save his life. So we made the decision to fight the cancer. Two days into radiation, I remember falling to my knees on a hospital, bathroom floor, pleading with the Lord, to lift the burden, and to just coach me to breathe so that I could survive the rest of the day. Sometime after the procedures my sister had purchased a picture of Christ for me. And I held the picture on my lap and Hudson came up on my lap and with his little finger traced to the eyes and the face of the Savior, and looked up at me and said the name of his great protector, Jesus. I knew that Hudson knew his Savior, and that he testified to me as he traced the Savior's face that the Lord really does visit his people during their afflictions. Hudson is 13 years old today. And although he suffers many post radiation side-effects, his life is miraculous. And despite the threat that the tumor may still grow, I know that no matter what happens in the future I can trust the Lord. For the Son of righteousness arises with healing in his links. The same month that Hudson finished chemotherapy, my marriage of 12 years dissolved, and later I faced my own cancer diagnosis. But what I know now, is that the Lord has and will always be the greatest source of comfort, and He will strengthen me to rise triumphantly to through every trial to the very end. And this is the gospel to me.   Sarah  33:58  That was Leslie, Claire, Carrie, Tennissa and Emily, every single one of those stories has something to teach you and me about living a Christ-like life in a totally different way. It reminds me of that moment Sarah talked about during the gatherings when she described how each woman was transformed into a queen and an expert. As we sat at her feet, it didn't matter how much quote, unquote extraordinary was present in the story of her life. The very fact that she was living it with faith and courage made her life worthy to be told. I was recently honored to have one of my essays about being a stepmother published in a compilation of women's writings called, "All Kinds of Mothers." And at first I was excited that something I wrote had made it into a book. And then, as it always does, the doubt crept in as I stared at the company I was keeping on those pages: Chieko Okazaki, Elaine Dalton, Patricia Holland, Emily Bell Freeman, Emily Watts, Sheri Dew—all women that I've admired and learn from over the years through their powerful words and immediately, immediately, I felt inadequate and embarrassed. I mean, I had made a joke about Brad Pitt in my essay. I didn't belong anywhere near those women, and that heavy wave of imposter syndrome, that washed over my excitement. And to be honest, I didn't tell anyone about the book until very recently. It still feels awkward for me to talk about it. But this past week of remembering the gatherings and the bravery of every woman who steps forward to share her story so that other women can feel validated and honored and heard. Well, that memory has come forward to fight back against my shame, a shame that absolutely doesn't come from a loving Heavenly Father. And instead I can focus on the truth. Someone—maybe just one person—someone needs to hear what I have to say in the way only I can say it. Someone needs to hear what you have to say. We need each other. We need each other stories and our thoughts and we need to hear and feel the diversity of our experiences so that we can be united in our efforts to help one another, make it home to Jesus Christ and toward eternity. And if we're focused on that aim, then we don't need to worry about whether what we say is profound, or extraordinary or even beautiful because it will be made beautiful in its purpose. Our stories of faith have inherent power because ultimately they testify of him. So here's my invitation to you: find your story, believe that it belongs in great company, because it does, and then share it with those you love.   That's it for this bonus episode of This Is The Gospel. Thank you for listening. Thanks to the storytellers who graced us with their presence in our living rooms, 15 years ago, and to the storytellers who graced us with their presence on camera. In our This Is The Gospel video series just a few years ago. We are so lucky to have cross paths with you all will have links to the videos, a few pictures of our journal notes. Well, mine not Sarah's because that attic is the worst. And that list of questions to get you started and gathering the stories of women you love and know, in our show notes at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. We're currently looking for stories for season three. So if you have a story to share about living the Gospel, please call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. We often find many of our stories from that pitch line and we love to hear how the Gospel has blessed your life. Call 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. This episode was produced by Sarah Monson, Blake and the KaRyn Daly Lay with story editing and producing by so many amazing LDS Living video production interns over the years. It was mixed and mastered by Mix at Six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at ldsliving.com/podcasts. Happy Mother's Day.

As we all adjust our routines in an effort to flatten the curve of the novel coronavirus there is still so much good we can see and do in the world. KaRyn shares a story of a time when her already terrible driving record hit an all-time low (pun intended) and the undeserved kindness of a stranger changed everything. SHOW NOTES: To view shownotes for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel TRANSCRIPT: KaRyn Lay  0:00   Hey friends, maybe you're like us. You're trying to socially distance right now so you can help keep the novel coronavirus at bay in your community. And if that's what's happening for you, Well done, well done. But we wanted to make sure you know that if you get lonely or you get bored, or you're just looking for something uplifting, we're still here. We're here with you virtually. And you can come find us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast. You'll find a community of story lovers there just like you. And we're always thinking about fun ways that we can stay connected during the week and especially during this interesting time. We want to help you use stories to keep your home-centered church-supported efforts engaged so come find us on Instagram and Facebook where we can uplift each other. Welcome to THIS IS THE GOSPEL, an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host KaRyn Lay. Well, this has been a wild week in our little corner of the U.S. You're probably feeling it too, with temple closures, the suspension of church services for the next few weeks and other adjustments to our lives and routines in all of our efforts to practice social distancing. I know. I know. My friends in Asia and parts of Europe have been at this much longer than we have. And believe me, I've been watching and learning from you. All the events of the last few weeks have me thinking pretty acutely about the ways that we take care of one another in our moments of deep vulnerability. I mean, I'm not sick right now and, and I still stand six feet away from everyone and wash my hands like a maniac while I'm singing my ABCs because I know that I could inadvertently be the cause of someone else's suffering. And if I unknowingly pass something off to an elderly neighbor or a friend with a compromised immune system, it will make me feel terrible. And I'm also really aware of the privilege that I have that allows me to work from home and to have more time Toilet paper than I currently need. I promise, I promise I am not hoarding it. But I did go to Costco a week before things got nuts. So, I'm well stocked. Come on over if you need a roll, I'm serious.  After I got over the shock of going to the grocery store and finding nothing on my list, I started to wonder just how the best parts of us as a community, a global community are going to shine during these uncertain times. And I felt a deep twinge of hope run through me. I've been following the Instagram account tiny kindnesses for weeks now and every day I read the stories, small, little stories about the way that we show up for one another in those critical moments when isolation or desperation could make us feel separated. We know how to do this. We have been preparing for this moment spiritually, much longer than most of us have physically. Well, at least me and that's the conclusion I have to draw from the swarming on grocery stores over the last two days. So today in celebration of all that is good in us. I'm sharing a tiny story of my own when I experienced a kindness from an absolute stranger in an unexpected way.  Now, I don't want you to think terribly less of me, but I've never been a particularly awesome driver. I mean, I'm fine. It's fine. In fact, it's been almost 10 years with no incidents. But when I'm overly stressed about something or someone, I really should probably take an Uber. I once made a timeline of my many accidents for a friend who needed to know that she wasn't the only one with a marred driving record, and I was surprised at the amount of collisions that I remembered.  There was the time I backed into a melon truck at the U-pick-it farm, or the time I forgot the car was behind me in the driveway, or that embarrassing time that I rear ended someone because of a spider on my dashboard. And then I had to go to court to tell a judge and an entire courtroom the story. They laughed, and I still had to pay the court fees. Luckily, most of the accidents I've been involved in have not hurt anyone. But that wasn't true the day that I turned a corner without really looking. When I was 28, I did something totally terrifying. I fell in love and I flew to Australia to see if marriage was in the cards for me with my internet boyfriend. I came back to the United States three weeks later, knowing that it wasn't going to happen. The breakup was devastating. I struggled for weeks to get my head back in the game, I was having a really hard time at work. I was having a really hard time at Church. I was having just a really hard time period. And it was like everything in my life was underwater, and I could never come up for air. Nothing felt easy, or even doable, to be honest. So it really shouldn't have surprised me when about a week after I got home, I got a flat tire on my way to work. It was the last straw...I'm telling you. It was the final proof that I needed that life was going to be nothing but sorrow and difficulty from here on out. I was out of money because it turns out that flying to a foreign country to see your internet boyfriend is not cheap, and I was out of hope. And just to put salt in my wounds, when I got to the tire shop to get that tire replaced, they told me that I would have to have all four tires replaced, not just the one with the flat. I don't even remember how I made that work financially, but by the time I left, Les Schwab Tires with four gleaming new wheels..I, I was spent and I was worried and I didn't have any room in my brain for driving. And that's when everything got worse.  Just as I turned the right corner onto the main street from the tire shop, a kid on a bike flew into crosswalk from seemingly nowhere, and I hit him. With my car. I hit a child with my car. He fell off his bike and I screeched to a stop and immediately ran out to see if he was okay. And of course I apologized 400 times. It seemed like he was in his early teens, maybe he was like 12 or 13. And he said he was fine, and he could walk. His bike was clearly damaged, but I didn't know what to do. Honestly, I was so distraught, and I'm sure that I probably should have called the paramedics or the police or someone, but I didn't. I couldn't really think clearly in that moment. So, I just gave him my cell phone number on a crumpled piece of paper from my glove compartment and told him to call me when he got home, or have his mother call me when he got home. I very carefully drove back to my office. I mean, I was devastated. What a horrible thing to have happen. Well, a little bit later, his mom called me and told me that he was totally okay physically, and they weren't taking him to the urgent care anything and they weren't even planning to make an insurance claim. But they did think that it was only fair that I pay for the damages to his bike - to get his bike fixed. So, I agreed that I would meet them at the bike shop so that I could pay the bill. And when I walked into that shop, I took one look at his mom, and it hit me. It hit me really hard. I could have killed her child. I could have killed him. And that's when I lost it. The tears started and they would not stop. I I think she probably thought I was a maniac - like what is wrong with this woman? - but I'd like to say that the tears were for the accident and all the trouble that I'd cause for her family. But in reality, my tears were for everything I'd lost for that hope that hope of a future that was never going to happen. And for the present that seemed so difficult, so painful, and unbearably hard. I was broken. And as much as I wanted to hide it, my heart was just bare,laid out bare and exploding right there, right there in front of these people in a stupid bike shop.  So I awkwardly paid for the fixes to his bike, it actually looked like it was brand new, which was really great. And I thought to myself, "I have bought a lot of tires today, like a lot of tires." And then I headed back to my office. About an hour after I got back, the front desk receptionist called my office and told me that I had a visitor. But you can only imagine my shock when I got downstairs to the front desk and I saw the boy that I'd hit with my car, standing in the lobby. He had his new fixed bike with him and a helmet, which was a new accessory that I suspect was the result of ... me. And he kind of looked at me weirdly and sheepishly held something out to me. And as I held my hand out to receive it, he said, "This is from my mom. She just wanted you to know that she doesn't hate you. And she thought you might like this." It was a $25 gift card to Subway, you know, to get a couple of footlong sandwiches. We still joke about that, that I might seriously be the only person to have ever been rewarded in sandwiches for nearly maiming a child with my car. But in all seriousness, the lesson of that subway gift card wasn't lost on me. And something in me shifted in that moment. I didn't deserve it. I didn't deserve that stranger's kindness. I was just some lady who could have ruined her life, like, in a really big way. I didn't deserve her mercy or her empathy, or her willingness to show forgiveness. But she gave me those gifts with a generous heart and a gift card. And because of that, I believe that I was healed a little bit more than I had been at the start of the day. There was a lot more to get whole again. And I would actually spend the next two years in Korea working on that. But that's simple kindness marked the twist in the dark tunnel. And I could finally see some light  - just a little pinprick - just a little pinprick of light shining through. I don't remember that woman's name. That was literally the last time I ever saw her or her bike riding son. But her kindness at a time when I should have been the one giving, not receiving has stuck with me. It's made me a more aware driver. And it has continued to be an invitation throughout my life to see people instead of circumstances and to reach out even if it's awkward. And isn't that the blessing of ministering? That opportunity to show up for one another with the Subway gift card, or the phone call, or the text message, even when we don't know the right thing to say. To give compassion, even when we're not so sure that the person receiving it really fully deserves it. You know, right now we're all watching as things fan out across the globe, wildfires, viruses, hateful rhetoric, divisiveness, fear. All of these things, whether natural or manmade, start small and work their way through our communities. glomming on to whatever is most vulnerable in their path. They grow and they grow and whatever is not fortified will fall. This feels devastating to our hearts sometimes, especially when we feel powerless to protect the weak and the weakest among us. If you watch the news at all lately, you can't avoid the word, "pandemic." It's defined as an outbreak of a disease that affects large geographic areas. But maybe you didn't know that the word "pandemic" comes from the Greek "pan-", meaning, "all" and, "-demos" meaning, "people." And that up until the 19th century, which is the 1800s. It wasn't really used as a noun by itself at all. It was used as an adjective to describe things that affect all people everywhere. And what that means to me is that there are other things that can be pandemic, like compassion, empathy, love, service, forgiveness, hope in Christ, and kindness. These things also start small and they also have exponential impact. And when we combine these acts of discipleship with the power of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, they can radiate beyond borders and generations and time, a pandemic goodness. So, over the next few weeks, as we all lean into our civic duty to protect our communities, I hope we'll also watch for opportunities to lean into our Christian duty to spread the Good News and the good works, to bring light where there's darkness - to minister. We can start small, tiny even. And I know that our efforts will be magnified. That's it for this episode of THIS IS THE GOSPEL. Thank you for all the goodness that you're already bringing into the world and for sharing it far and wide. We'll have a transcript of this episode in our show notes at LDS living.com/this is the gospel. If you're sequestered and looking for a meaningful activity to pass the time... Well, I've got an idea for you. How about practicing your personal or family storytelling? Pick a theme and ask your friends or family members to take turns telling their own stories around that theme. You can even do this virtually back and forth on Google Hangouts or through text messages. You might be surprised at what you learn about one another and your faith.  We love to hear all the ways that this type of storytelling strengthens your faith in God and love for His children. If you have just a minute to leave us a review and a rating on iTunes, that's another way that you can share the good stuff. Every review that you leave helps us to show up in the search for more people who are looking for something to brighten their day.  If you have a story to share about living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, please call our pitch line. We find so many of our stories from this pitch line. And as we prepare for season three, we would love to hear how the gospel has blessed your life. Call 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less.  This episode was produced by me KaRyn Lay. It was scored, mixed, and mastered by mix at six studios. Our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast to keep you busy while you're at home, and other LDS living podcast at LDSliving.com/podcasts. Stay healthy, stay calm and wash your hands! Transcribed by https://otter.ai

During a week-long break from running track at Utah State University, Brittany fell in love with climbing the red rocks of southern Utah. And a moonlight rappel from a 200-foot cliff with a friend was just the adventure Brittany was looking for. But that night, adventure quickly turned to tragedy, leaving Brittany with a life-changing diagnosis that ultimately led her to a new relationship with her self and her Savior. This episode of THIS IS THE GOSPEL is sponsored by the First Light Concert Celebration of the First Vision presented by Deseret Book. SHOW NOTES To find the pictures and videos of Brittany's story, head to our shownotes at LDSLIVING.com/thisisthegospel EPISODE TRANSCRIPT KaRyn Lay  0:03   Welcome to This Is the Gospel, an LDS living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host KaRyn Lay. We all know that person, you know, the one who takes all the hard things that life sends their way and eats them for breakfast.  The one who somehow finds the way to remain fully cheerful regardless of their circumstances. And can I tell you a secret? I've always been a little bit suspicious of that person. As someone who generally seeks consistent happiness, but sometimes can't find it, I often wonder if it's all a show- a mask- because I felt the pressure to put on a happy face even when I wasn't feeling it, so why wouldn't someone else? And I guess you could say that I'm a little pessimistic about whether it's actually possible for someone to remain fully optimistic in the midst of really hard things. And then I was put into a church calling with someone that I would have described, once upon a time, as painfully cheerful. From the outside, her life seemed perfect. Her children were perfect. Her hair even seemed perfect. And if she was struggling with anything, it would be impossible to know. And I didn't trust it. I made it my mission to try to figure out what was really under all that optimism and hope. I brought all my suspicions to our joint service. And do you know what I discovered? To my chagrin, as I grew to know and love this woman, I learned that life her life was far from perfect, but her choice to see and speak the positive was as real as it gets. In those moments of conversation, when it would have been easy to head below the line, I could actually see the wheels turning in her heart and in her mind as she worked her way back up to the top, finally landing her words in a place of hope, and goodness, and possibility. Now listen, I'm a huge fan of honoring our vulnerability and allowing our vetted safe people to cradle us in our sorrow, but this wasn't about that. She had her people to mourn with her. But she also made a conscious effort to speak hope. To turn her words and her face to the Savior in all things. And frankly, that's something I'm still trying to learn how to learn.  Well, today we have one story from Brittany who learned her lessons in optimism in a unique way that she believes was tailored specifically to her. Here's Brittany. Brittany  2:27   In 2012, I was a 21-year-old student athlete at Utah State and I ran cross country in the fall and track in the spring, and I was always on the go. I rarely sat still. And I just loved being in nature. I genuinely loved running. Running in nature is where I would pray and felt closest to God and just loved every moment of life. I had great friends. I was doing well in school. I was healthy, no stress fractures and I felt closest to the Lord than I ever had in my life. And so just every aspect of my life really seemed to be going my way. And it was just this beautiful, busy life that was spent outdoors as much as I possibly could.  So, in March of 2012, our coaches gave us the weekend off before outdoor track season started. So, I took the opportunity to join some friends down in St. George for a little bit of a spring break climbing trip and it was there that I fell in love with the red rocks. I think I went on like six runs in one day. We started climbing at 7:30am - climbed all day- I fit in six runs in between and ended the night I think swimming. So when I got the invitation to go out for a moonlight rappel... If you haven't gotten the gist, I was always up for an adventure... And so when I got that invitation I, I accepted and, and was all for it. And it was there that we went to Cougar cliffs.  Sitting at the top of the cliff, I was just looking up at the stars and had this peaceful feeling while the fellow I with was setting everything up. And once we started the descent of the rappel, I had no idea how big the cliff was. I hadn't seen over the edge. And so as we started rappelling, that rope was really heavy and I never done a repel like this before, of this size. The cliff was 250 feet. And so as the speed kind of picked up, I tried to slow myself down, and my hand was burning so badly that, just kind of like when you touch a hot stove, it was just instinct to let go. We later found out I had a third degree burn on my hands so I had held on for as long as I could to try and slow my slow my descent but... At that point, it was a free fall for the next 80 to 100 feet. If you've ever been cliff jumping into water, it's that same feeling in your stomach or a roller coaster. I couldn't scream. I couldn't make any noise because I was falling so fast. But I kept wondering, when's the ground going to come? When's the ground going to come? And all of a sudden, just bam, there was.I fell about 80 to 100 feet, I hit the ground. From that moment, things went a little blurry.  After the initial shock of the fall, I kind of came to my senses again. I looked up at the sky and how peaceful it was. And the fellow I was with had gone to call for help so, I was all alone. And I knew something was wrong. I assumed there was some bone sticking out in my legs, so I didn't look down at the damage... But as I looked up at the night sky, I just had this peaceful feeling again, and I thought to pray. And I think it was just instinct. And so I tried to roll over for the first time since I had fallen. I tried to roll over to maybe kind of kneel and pray and I couldn't even roll over. I didn't think anything weird of it. I just decided to stay on my back and look up at the stars and pray and it was kind of one of those desperate. "Heavenly Father, you know, please help me. I know I'm in trouble. I don't know what kind of trouble, but, like, if you help me in this situation, I'll do anything you ask." and maybe kind of bargaining with the Lord. But I I just felt such peace as I laid there alone. Slowly, search and rescue came and found me and started boarding me up. Lifeflight had landed and they were getting ready to take me to the hospital. When search and rescue had been called, they typically get two types of calls: a rescue and recovery. Recovery, they're just going in to get a body and   rescue, they're going in to get someone in danger, someone who's hurt in a tight place. And so when they heard my situation, they assumed they were coming in for recovery just to get a body. And so you can imagine their surprise when not only was I alive, but I was awake. And so from there they life flighted me to Las Vegas. I went through all the initial CAT scans and MRIs. And from there, they whisked me away into surgery, and I woke up 10 hours later, 12 hours later, I think, is how long the surgery took, with my mother by my bedside. She had had time to fly from Chicago- book a flight from Chicago and get to the hospital to be by my bedside. But I was still intubated and couldn't speak and my mom was able to just sit by my bedside and read scriptures to me to help me calm down because I'd woken up really anxious. I knew what had happened, but I didn't know why I couldn't talk or move. And so the scriptures were able to just bring peace and I was able to fall back asleep until they could take all the tubes out of my throat.  And the first few days were just cycles of in and out of sleep and pain medicine. I ended up with lots of broken bones in my legs,a burnt right hand and multiple fractures in my spine, including my T 12 vertebrae, which burst instantly paralyzing me from the waist down. The official diagnosis was a spinal cord injury and paraplegic. And it wasn't until I had been moved out of ICU. I had been filled with a lot of optimism and hope in those moments that I was awake. And it wasn't until I had been moved upstairs and I looked down my legs for the first time. I'd been so afraid that there were bone sticking out. But I figured at this point, I've had surgery on my legs. I've had surgery on my back, like, it can't be that bad. And when I looked down, I wanted to see my strong running legs, my great calves and quad muscles that helped me run fast in college. But instead, what I saw were these swollen, lifeless, cut up and bruised legs. That ...was.... that was my first moment of kind of doubt and discouragement crept into my mind. And that was the first time that I questioned "Who am I anymore?" You know, before I was this student athlete, this rock climber and this runner, all these things that I identified with my legs, and that was no more. So I kind of went through this identity crisis, wondering Who am I? doubting myself for the first time. From Las Vegas, I was eventually transferred to another rehab hospital in Colorado, which was Craig Hospital. It was a hospital just for spinal cord injuries and traumatic brain injuries. And it was there at Craig hospital that I learned to live life again in a wheelchair. I learned how to dress myself; how to go the bathroom;  how to drive a car; how to cook in the kitchen. The simplest tasks became such a struggle to learn again, and from  there I went through months and months of intense  rehabilitation and physical therapy. And even after I was discharged from the hospital, I continued to learn how to walk. Once my bones had healed in my legs. I'd regained some muscle function and sensation in my legs enough to walk with a walker. And then eventually I learned to walk with crutches. And I can take some independent steps on my own, but I fall pretty quickly. And so, it was just this juggling act of wheelchair, walker, and crutches. And it was an intense year of physical therapy and healing both spiritually and emotionally.  I think one of the biggest struggles I had, on top of all the physical pain, there was neuropathic pain, which was unlike anything I'd experienced before. Then there was also just a spiritual stretching, which was painful, as I learned so many new lessons. And the hardest thing physically though, was not having running to cope with anymore which was also emotional because running was my therapy. Running was what I did when I was happy or when I was sad, when I was frustrated or when I was excited. And so finding something to fill that hole that running had left in my life.... It wasn't until about a year and a half into my recovery. I had graduated from Utah State. I had student- taught in my wheelchair. I had walked across the stage at graduation. And I had finally kind of slowed down and realized that this is permanent. That this diagnosis wasn't going anywhere. My paralysis wasn't going away. And that's when I kind of hit my spiritual and emotional low. And that's when I faced the depths of grief and depression. And those were the moments where I felt completely alone and wondered where that promise was that that God had given us saying, "I will not leave you comfortless." There I was, feeling pretty dang comfortless and questioning everything that I had... I knew about our loving Heavenly Father. But I came to learn with perspective in hindsight, during those those months of darkness and depression and grief, that Heavenly Father was aware of what I was going through. He was aware of my loss and my struggles and my sadness, but he had to allow me to feel that darkness... to feel that sadness, so I could understand what others have gone through and will go through and are going through. So I can empathize and have compassion towards them and minister to others. It was so meaningful to know that the Savior understood my struggles individually because I was facing some really unique circumstances, some pain, some neuropathic pain that literally caused me to cry out in the night. I couldn't even describe the pain to anyone. And learning to go to the bathroom again, the simplest little task that we learn at two years old, I was learning this again and the Savior knew I was struggling with once again. He knew the pain and the loss that I was experiencing. And that meant so much because even other spinal cord injuries didn't know exactly what I was experiencing or feeling. They may have a better understanding, but only the Savior truly knew and had felt that neuropathic pain - had felt that emotional pain and loss that I was experiencing.  And, it just helped me feel like I wasn't alone at all. But during that season when I wasn't so optimistic when the grief and and loss and depression was so heavy, it was hard to find the light. And that's where I just practiced CPR: church, prayer, reading the scriptures. It was spiritual CPR and I wasn't feeling it for so many months... But as I continued to do those small and simple things, there was no one light bulb moment when everything came together and I was happy again. It was more of a gradual sunrise. It was more of a gradual coming back to myself... coming back to finding joy and and choosing joy. Because we're taught that it's our reaction to adversity, not adversity itself, that that really matters. And so, we don't always get to choose what happens to us, but we always get to choose how we react. And I don't think Heavenly Father's upset with us when we feel the sadness and the darkness, but just as long as we still choose him at the end of the day. I believe in a just and loving Heavenly Father, and I believe he doesn't cause bad things to happen, but he allows them to happen. And that night, he allowed that accident to happen. He allowed the effects of gravity to pull me down to the ground and to cause all these broken bones upon impact. I mean, that's the laws of gravity, like God is not only a just and loving God, but He's the God of order. And, and that's a part of it -- our free agency and those consequences. And so I've found a lot of peace and knowing that Heavenly Father didn't cause this to happen, but he allowed it to happen. But he also did so much more in preserving my life. First off, I mean, the fact that I even survived. I know that Heavenly Father was involved in the details. That he preserved my life and not only my life, but my ability to speak and think for myself, and have relationships... because I didn't have a helmet that night, and that there was no brain damage is such a tender mercy, a miracle in itself on top of the miracle of still being alive. So I know that Heavenly Father was involved in the details, but that he didn't cause it to happen, but he allowed it to happen. My life now is nothing like what I would have pictured myself. If you had asked 21 year old Brittany where she would be in seven years, I would not have painted this picture. But now that I'm living it, it's so beautiful, as I've become a wife and a mother and I have my boys- my husband and my son and my dog --and I still am able to be active and get outdoors. That looks different than what I would have imagined and what I would have preferred running on my own two feet, but I still able to get out there until live a full and beautiful life regardless of my abilities and my circumstances. And each and every one of us can live this beautiful full life that Heavenly Father has planned for, for us as we learn to be content with our circumstances. I learned this before my accident, during my accident and now still. Especially when fall comes around my legs just like yearn to run again in the fall crisp weather. And it's so hard when those feelings of loss and grief resurface. But, then I look at my beautiful life and I realized that gratitude and grief can coexist. You can still mourn your loss. You can still feel the sadness, but you can also still feel so much joy and so much gratitude. And so just allowing myself to feel the sadness, but then to look up and to look around at how beautiful life still is - that I'm still getting out in nature. It may be a little different than it used to be, but I'm still out there. I'm still... I'm still me. I'm still Brittany. And that that has brought a lot of comfort to me knowing that grief and gratitude can coexist.  The other thing that I do is silly and and simple, but I call it two goods and a bad and I've been doing it since I was in high school. And it's just a practice of, you know, you may have a really crappy aspect of your day or life and acknowledging that... but then balancing it out by seeking out good things in life too. And sometimes the bads in our life are really heavy and you have to find 2,3,4,5, 20 good things to help kind of balance out the bad, but, just practicing that two goods and a bad by acknowledging the hard things in life but also seeking out the good and the sweet things.  I came across the scripture in Philippians 4:11 and Alma 29:3 and they both talk about being content with the things which the Lord has allotted you. And the Lord has allotted me so much. He's given me so much. He's given me an opportunity to bear my testimony and to share my light and to become a mother. I don't know if I ever would have slowed down enough to become a wife and a mother if I still had my own two legs to carry me through the mountains and adventure up every peak and canyon. Even if it's on four wheels instead of my own two legs, it still is a beautiful life regardless of my trials. Regardless of my circumstances, I can still become who Heavenly Father... because of my trials and circumstances, I'm able to become who Heavenly Father wants me to be. KaRyn Lay  21:09   That was Brittany Fisher Frank. Brittany's story of incredible optimism has been featured in so many cool places, including the Today Show and People magazine. Like she said, she truly has had so many opportunities to share her testimony with the world as a result of her experience. And were you as struck as I was by the wisdom that she just casually dropped about grief and gratitude coexisting? I can't stop thinking about that. And I really think that that understanding might be one of the secrets to living a more optimistic life.  Here's my deep thought of the day. So many times we define optimism as the choice between seeing the glass half empty and seeing the glass half full. But I don't think that's quite right. If Brittany's lesson is correct, then the glass really is both things at once. And that means that I dont have to ignore the emptiness in order to see the fullness. The glass just is...in perfect balance without judgment. And I can honor the space where there is no water and also be excited about the water that is there. I think what Brittany's story teaches us is the true nature of the principle of opposition and all things. Maybe, just maybe, true optimism is just allowing ourselves to live in a world filled with the word "and" instead of the word "or." We met Brittany when we filmed her for an LDS living video documentary, and if you wonder why you can basically hear her smile as she talks about falling off a cliff?  Well, that's because she IS smiling as she talks about falling off a cliff. In fact, Brittany sent us several pictures for that documentary and I was shocked as I looked through them to see one of her grinning at the camera as she's being loaded into that lifeflight helicopter. And while we might attribute some of that to the effects of adrenaline and shock, I can honestly say how met and spoken to Brittany. That that's just genuinely who she is - no mask, no pretend, authentic Brittany. But if you were listening closely, you probably heard what I heard. Before her accident Brittany was already practicing her two goods and a bad. Before she ever had to accept the truth about her new life, Brittany was practicing the art of accepting gratitude AND grief. Now, you may write this off and say that she's lucky that she was just born with an innate ability towards optimism. And that may be true because there really are as many spiritual gifts as there are people. But we cannot dismiss the truth of the matter. That positivity, perspective, and peace are some of the fruits of practiced discipleship. If, like me, you don't feel that you already have these gifts the way you wish you did. You can seek them. You can practice toward them.  And here's the best news. Our Savior and our heavenly parents are true optimists. Elder Uchtdorf said this in his October 2014 General Conference talk,  "Yes, God loves you this very day and always. He is not waiting to love you until you have overcome your weaknesses and bad habits. He loves you today with a full understanding of your struggles. He is aware that you reach up to him in heartfelt and hopeful prayer. He knows of the times that you've held on to the fading light and believed even in the midst of growing darkness. He knows of your sufferings. He knows of your remorse for the times you have fallen short or failed, and he still loves you. He knows everything about you. He sees you clearly. He knows you as you really are and He loves you today and always." Isn't that so interesting? We, you and I, are God's half empty, half full glass of water. He sees all of us and the Atonement of Jesus Christ makes it possible for us to be filled up with and feel the love of God, whether we find ourselves in joyful or dire circumstances, or both. And to me, that is some good news worth smiling about. That's it for this episode of This Is the Gospel. Thank you to Brittany Fisher Frank and her family for letting us invade with cameras and recording equipment last year. We'll have links to the video we made with Brittany including that picture of the lifeflight transport and a transcript of this episode in our show notes at LDS living.com/thisisthegospel.  If you have a minute to tell us what you love about this podcast, we would love to hear it. Please leave us a review on iTunes. And if you're not sure how to do that, go to our Instagram @thisisthegospel_podcast and in our highlights  wewill have all the instructions on how to leave a review. It really does help us and it helps more people to find this podcast. All of the stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a story to share about living the Gospel, please call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. We often find many of our stories from the pitch line and we love to hear how the gospel is blessing your life. Call 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. This episode was produced by Sarah Blake with additional story producing and editing by Jasmine Mullen, Ashley Porter and me, KaRyn Lay. it was scored, mixed, and mastered by mix at six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS living podcasts at LDSliving.com/podcasts. Have a lovely week. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

EXCITING NEWS ALERT~This Is the Gospel is going to join Deseret Book at this year's RootsTech conference in Salt Lake City! To celebrate, we are sharing one of our favorite episodes all about the power of our ancestors' faith stories, "The Roots of Faith." Stories in this episode: An extraordinary lesson from her family history helps Sister Linda K. Burton find the right words to minister to the women of the Relief Society when she is called as president; Deserey is called to be the Family History specialist in her single adult ward and receives a special spiritual confirmation from her father beyond the veil about the value of her calling. SHOW NOTES To find pictures and more from this episode, please visit LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel TRANSCRIPT: KARYN LAY: Did you know that reviews on iTunes help new people find the podcasts that inspire you most? Well, they do. So if you found something valuable in the stories that we share on This Is The Gospel, would you take a minute to rate our podcast and maybe even leave us a review on iTunes? Every written review helps us to show up in the search results for more people who could use a little bit of storytelling magic in their week. We really appreciate it. Welcome to This is the Gospel. An LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host KaRyn Lay. A few years ago, I got a phone call from my grandma who we call Nanny. And it was routine stuff. She was telling me all the details for the upcoming family party. So I took notes. I wrote it all down like a dutiful granddaughter and I hung up the phone. About five minutes later, the phone rang again. And it was Nanny. So I assumed she was calling because she had forgotten something. And instead, she proceeded to tell me the exact same thing she had said five minutes earlier, almost word for word. When I hung up the phone, I sort of laughed about it. Because in my family, we have a tradition of finding the humor in just about everything, but it didn't take long for the weight of that phone conversation to settle in. Not long after that nanny was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and it didn't take long for her short term memory, her long term memory, and her ability to communicate clearly, to disintegrate. It was around this time that I also got my very first iPhone. I'm a late adopter. So it took me a little while to get one. But when I did, I realized that it had this app, the voice memo app, and all I would have to do is push a button and It would record anything. So I started to record everything. I would take that iPhone and put it in the middle of the room during family parties, and push the record button, just to try to capture whatever I could. I was looking for stories. I wanted to make sure that even though my grandmother's memory was going away, the stories that she had, wouldn't. As you can imagine, sometimes I got stories. Sometimes I got grocery lists, and sometimes I got testimony and other times I got the tail end of a phone conversation. My hunger for the routine and the mundane have made me a bit of an indiscriminate recorder but honestly, I just didn't want to miss anything. And I'd like to think that I was actually rewarded especially when recently I stumbled upon this little story from my mom. KARYN'S MOM (SUE): There was a big box that we used to keep up in the storage closet for like in the wintertime our summer clothes went in the box. In the summertime, our winter clothes went in the box. And whenever I would get into trouble, I would go up there and go in that closet and hide under the clothes and cry. And I'd just be like, "They're never  gonna find me." And then I'd be KaRyn's Aunt (Kathy):Which house are you talking about? SUE: The one in Middletown. That we added on to on Aspen Street. And I'd be up there singing the song."Nobody likes me. Everybody hates me so I'll eat worms. Big ones, fat ones, small ones, skinny ones. Oh, how I'll eat worms. I'll bite their heads off, suck the juice out, throw the skins away. I don't see how birds can stand them for three meals a day."And the kids would come in that closet and they'd go, "She must be in here. I know she must be in here. Sue? Sue?"And I was just quiet as a mouse. And then they go out and I'd laugh quietly and say, "They didn't find me." NANNY: Oh my goodness, oh, it's funny how you probably don't even— KARYN: I am so glad that I captured that moment of unbridled laughter from my Nanny, especially now that she can't remember who I am most days. There's also this really cool little snippet of audio where I caught my mom and my aunt and my grandparents telling the story of their trip to Idaho Falls to receive their temple blessings and to be sealed together as a family a few years after my family converted to the gospel. You will hear my aunt on the phone, in the background, trying to find a place to get scrapple for me. And if you don't know what scrapple is, please don't look it up. You will not think more highly of me after you find out what it is. Anyway, here's the story. SUE: This year we're actually going to Idaho Falls temple. We had a station wagon  Kathy (in the background): ...someplace that has scrapple for KaRynnie SUE: and the back didn't have any seats.  KARYN: Were all of the kids born then?  SUE: Yeah. Thank goodness we didn't have to have seat belts and car seats and all that junk or we wouldn't have been able to go. And Kathy was responsible for handing out the sandwiches when it was lunchtime. And we were only allowed to take a shoebox full of stuff with us. Each person could take a shoebox. That's it because you didn't have room for right people to bring all their facts. If we wanted to buy any trinkets we had a room in our shoebox to put it or we couldn't get it. And we had- did we pull our camper? Our popup tent? And it sometimes would rain so hard that our sleeping bags would get wet. Right? It's not hurting but we- PAPPY: ...slept in the car, or out in good weather we just slept out on the ground in our sleeping bags. KARYN: Like did anything difficult happened on the trip?  SUE: Oh yeah the brakes went out.  Pappy: Yeah.  SUE: Coming down a mountainside  Pappy: Yeah. KARYN: Down a mountain?  SUE: Yeah it was a mountainside. Where were we? Yellowstone area?  Pappy: I don't remember exactly.  SUE: But it was— Pappy: I made all these side trips too. If there was something interesting, I'd go there. SUE: Yeah the bear came. One time we were in the sleeping thing. And we started screaming. Pappy: The Big Rock Candy Mountain. Yeah. KARYN: So I forgot to ask anything about the actual sealing in that conversation. But it was still so cool for me to know about the details of a trip that changed the eternal trajectory of our extended family forever. And aren't we so glad that there are seatbelts now? Though the recordings are totally amateurish and ham-handed. I love listening to them because they represent my newly found desire to hold on to the people, and the places that have shaped me. And all of the stories that are the basis of my own faith. I think we actually call that the spirit of Elijah, right? The turning of the hearts of the children towards their parents and the parents towards their children. Well, today we've got stories from people who found their faith in Jesus Christ rooted in the power of their family history, and that turning of the hearts of the children to their fathers. Our first storyteller is Sister Linda K Burton. And she's telling a story from her family history. The miraculous, yet simple experience from her great grandfather's life that became a guide to her during her time as the general Relief Society President of the Church. Here's Linda. LINDA K BURTON: Well, I don't really remember the very first time I heard this story. I can kind of put it in a time frame of when I was a very young mother, I must have been doing some family history at the time. When the little ones were in bed just to have a break from my regular routine. But I did come across this story of my great-grandfather that he had written down. I don't know at what point in his life he wrote it down but by the time the story took place was when he was about 10 years old. And that intrigued me, but the thing that really intrigued me was the broken English that he wrote it in because he was right from Denmark. And so it was so charming for me to read his own account. And I just was drawn in by this story, because he tells about his mother. And so I could see myself. I could actually relate to her as a young mother of several children. And so this is my great-great-grandmother, Caroline Catherine Holmes Kjar. And at this point in her life, she was pregnant, with I think her seventh child. She had lost one. And her husband had been sick in the hospital for about 26 weeks, so about a half year, six months. And as a struggling young mother, trying to provide for her children with her husband unable to work, she was taking in laundry, she was doing whatever she could make ends meet, and could not make ends meet. So they get to the point where the landlord comes and says, you know, pay up or move out basically. And as it always happens in sad stories, this is in the middle of the winter. So from my great grandfather, Joseph Julius point of view, he remembers looking out the window with his older brother Peter. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself, I got a back up a little bit.  My great-great grandmother was discouraged. And so she gathered the children in prayer after the landlord had come and kind of given his ultimatum. She kneels down with the children in prayer, puts her arms around them and, and says a heartfelt prayer and tells Heavenly Father, she's done everything she can do. She can't do anymore at this point in her life. I remember feeling that way at that point in my life as well. And she told Him that she couldn't think of anything else that she could do. So would He please, please help them. And after she said this beautiful prayer, she didn't get up right away. She said, "I have a feeling that Heavenly Father's gonna send someone to help us. I don't think he's gonna let us suffer anymore."  Well, the next morning is when my grandfather and my great grandfather and his brother looking out the window and it's snowing hard. And so the children are all there in the apartment. That's a second story of an apartment building. And they see a man coming up the walk, and he looks like he some kind of policeman or somebody a little bit frightening, intimidating to them. And they see him go around the back. And then they hear someone coming up the stairs and it frightens them because they think this is the man coming to evict them. So they run to their mother and get her and she hears a knock at the door. And she answers it. And she's I'm sure as frightened as they are. And so this man says to her, "Are you Mrs. Care?" Which kind of takes her back because she doesn't know who this man is. And she says, "Yes, that's me." And he says, "My name is Johan Nikolai Modvic." Sorry, this makes me teary. He says, "I had a dream last night that there was a hard-working woman. And then he gives the address 29 Field Strada who needs my help. I'm here to help you. How much money do you need?" And so she tells him that she needs 30 krona, to bring it current. He immediately gives her the money. And of course, she's just overwhelmed the generosity of this man. She has no idea who he is. And he gives her a card and says, "If you need any more, this is how to contact me." And she goes to kiss his hand and he kind of pulls away and says, "Don't thank me. You thank the Lord because the dream I had came from Him." And then he leaves. And as a sweet young mother, she gathers her children before she does anything else, and kneels in prayer again, and thanks the Lord for sending help in their hour of need, and then she says to the children, "Don't ever forget this. And don't forget the name of this man." This is the story that my grandfather remembers as a child at age 10, which I think is pretty significant because he didn't forget. There's a sequel to this story I don't tell in the book. So we found out later that Johan Nikolai Modvig, and actually my great grandfather remembered his name wrong. He remembered his Johan Lodvic Modvic. We actually had our friend, he kind of specializes in Scandinavian family history. And so he looked up to see if he could find anything about him. He was the one that discovered that Nikolai was his middle name, not Ludvic, and he was a prominent Professor apparently. And, interestingly, about the time that this story happened, I think Brother Modvic, was actually serving as like Speaker of the House type thing in Copenhagen. This was a wonderful man. So besides the all the things he was doing professionally where he listened to the voice of the spirit in a dream and responded to it. I thought that was impressive about him.  You know, I was thinking about how this story changed my faith. I don't know that it changed my faith as much as it deepened my faith. As a young mother, we had ups and downs financially. Yeah, I knew what meager meant and how does scrape things together. And we had a turn when things were really bad financially, the early 80s. And that's when I think this story I ran across the store. So the timing was significant to us, because we'd had quite a drought in our finances. And so this resonated with me. I could feel to a degree what Caroline must have been feeling. So I was grateful to have a story to hang my hat on. I have also drawn on this story numerous times when I was serving in my calling as General Relief Society President. As you can imagine, I was traveling all over the world and seeing women in difficult circumstances. Everyone is in difficult circumstances. When I would stand up there, and I would sometimes prepare something that I- or an outline what I thought I might say, sometimes I could feel this is not the right thing. And I put it aside and he would bring this story to my mind. And that's what would be what I would share. And almost without fail, it was the connecting point to the sisters, no matter what language I was trying to be translated in. And I was able to say and able to use this story to say Heavenly Father has not forgotten you. He is aware of you in your extremities, and you will kneel on your knees and thank Him for these experience someday because you will know that He has had His eye upon you. Like He had my great great grandmother. She was just a regular little person who didn't feel like she was probably worthy of anything great. And yet He saw her in her need and was able respond to that need because she allowed Him to with her prayer of faith.  We were lucky enough to go to Denmark a few years ago when our daughter was living in, in Ireland with her family for a year. We decided to go visit them. And one of the things my daughter had decided that we needed to do while we were visiting there was to go over to Denmark. It was a not too far of a jaunt to go even though she had three little tiny children at the time. But that gave us an opportunity to tell the story to these three little children. Let them know where we were going to go and that we were going to try and find this apartment where this story took place. And that was pretty precious. To go down that street, see the name of that street that we knew, and then find that number 29 was kind of a sacred moment to stand there in front of that and look up into that second story window where we could match and Joseph, Julius, and Peter, looking down. We didn't have to go there to see that it was real. But just standing there and remembering the faith of that mother, that was influencing my life generations later. It was this connecting point. It was this "I love you" moment. It was like my way of saying "I love you, I thank you for being the kind of woman that's influenced my life for many years now." And that my grandchildren were there with me that I hope this would be significant for them to look back on. I knew they were too tiny to maybe remember it in the immediate future. But as the story is retold to them, they might have some remembrance, they were there too, and that this is part of our sacred heritage. KARYN: That was Linda. After listening to this story, I was struck by the realization that Caroline, Linda's great-great-grandmother probably had no idea that this tiny moment, in the cold snowy world of Denmark, would someday reach beyond time and space to inspire women across continents to believe and trust in Christ. Her everyday devotion to the Savior has become a legacy so much greater than she or even her family could have imagined. And it makes me want to reevaluate my own faith practice. Am I living in a way that could someday provide a blueprint of faith for the people I love? Am I seeking to demonstrate deep trust in Jesus? And more importantly, am I writing down the moments that have changed me? The fact that a small transformative moment in our lives could have a lasting impact on generations beyond us is something that was actually reinforced to me during a drive through Amish country, in Lancaster, Pennsylvania with my mom, I had my phone recorder turned on because that's what I do. And I must have asked my mom to tell me the story of our first known Amish ancestor.  KARYN: Mom telling me why the Amish Fultz got shunned. SUE: So the story is that the- and I don't remember his name, I think it's John Fultz, was raised by the Amish. So they took him in because his parents died on the ship coming over here to America. And he grew up Amish and then he was planting his field and he decided he was going to plant... wasn't malt. KARYN: Something you could make liquor out of?  SUE: Yes, I can't seem-  KARYN: Barley?  SUE: Barley. And it's not unusual to plant barley. But it is unusual for them to sell it to someone who uses it to make liquor. And he did not appreciate them telling him he could not sell it to this man who was making liquor with it. And so because he did that, he was told that he had to leave the Amish and he was shunned by the rest of the Fultz. So that's who we come from.  KARYN: Do you know when that was? Was it the 1700s? 1800s?  SUE: I could tell you if I had my genealogy in front of me but I don't. And kind of found all that out because Uncle Tim was driving down Lancaster County. Came across the street sign that said Fultz Lane and so he pulled over and had his son taking a picture of them. And a Fultz Amish man, whose last name is Fultz, came out. And he told us the story of the Fultz. And sure enough, it was the same, Fultz.  KARYN: That's really interesting that he would... that that's like folklore in their-  SUE: Yep.  KARYN: In their family, right? Like the Fultz who got shunned because of- SUE: Yep. In the Amish eyes, we're the bad Fultzes. KARYN: That was my mom Sue O'Daley. Certainly, John Fultz wasn't thinking about the future spiritual growth of his family when he stubbornly refused to stop selling his barley for liquor. I'm sure that shunning felt awful. But regardless of whether you think that was a good thing or a bad thing, it was a choice that opened the door of the world to the Fultz family who became ardent Methodists, and eventually ardent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's also interesting to note that the same gift of stubborn individualism that sent John Fultz out from the Amish is the same gift of stubborn individualism that sent my Pappy, Robert Fultz, the first in our family to join the church in search of a new faith tradition. Our physical and spiritual genetics are hard to escape. But I'm more and more convinced that they are often the thing that will move us forward along our earthly plans towards the Savior, just as they were meant to. Our next story from Deserey illustrates that connection that comes to us from honoring those gifts as we work on our family history. Here's Deserey. DESEREY: So to truly understand my story, I feel like you have to know a lot about hearts. Not only scientifically how they work and how they're made up, but also the hearts of my father, who was a very important man to me, and my brother, who I have not yet met on this earth. My older brother Corbin, he was diagnosed with a heart condition known as aortic stenosis. And this is a defect where your aorta valve is different. So usually, on your aortic valve, you have three cusps, they call them. And when you have aortic stenosis, instead of having three you have two cusps, and that can cause a lot of issues with blood flow and with your aorta. It was recommended that he gets surgery at Primary Children's Hospital. And he was so little and unfortunately, he did not survive that surgery. Fast forward, years later, my dad, he was out working in the yard and came in later that night and was having some chest pain. Well, when he went in to see the cardiologist, they found out that he also had an aortic stenosis. And this kind of shows you my dad's personality and character, because in that moment, when he's finding out this life-altering diagnosis, essentially, that he never knew about his whole life. He felt so bad that he had given that to his son. They didn't know when Corbin was diagnosed that aortic stenosis can be genetic. But in that moment, he turned to my mom, and he said, "I feel so bad that I gave this to my son without knowing." Which just shows how selfless my dad was. He was just always worried about other people more than himself. So, after this, my dad continued on with his doctors, and they recommended surgery for him. My dad's heart was really, really weak after this long, extensive surgery. And so they had trouble taking him off the heart and lung machine. They decided that life flight was needed to come and take him to a hospital that had the equipment that they needed. And while my dad was in the ICU, and life flight was getting ready to take him on the helicopter, he crashed.  My family and I were waiting in the hallway to watch him get put on the helicopter. And unfortunately, we had to watch my dad get rolled down the hallway. With life flight crew giving him CPR and working on him. That was a very, very hard experience for my family to witness. Three days later, after a lot of waiting and a lot of hopelessness, we were informed that we were going to have to take my dad off of life support. We had to say goodbye.  Now I am the youngest of eight children. And after I lost my dad, I was really concerned about him, not being able to be at all my life's big events, I I felt kind of cheated. I was really worried that, you know, I wasn't going to fill him in my life. I was upset that things we could have been doing together that those opportunities were taken away. I had a dream that I was getting married. And I kept looking for my Uncle to give me away. So I said, "Where's my Uncle, he, he needs to give me away?" And I was searching through these crowds of people. And I kept looking. And all of a sudden, I ran into a huge crowd of people. And they were all dressed in white. At the very front was my dad.  I just was shocked. And I said, you're here, you're actually here. And he laughed at me. And he said, "Why I'll always be here. And I've been here the whole time." And I started thinking who were all those other people behind him. And I started asking questions like "Who is he with on the other side of the veil?" And later, within my ward, I was called to be the family history lead. And I had been interested in family history ever since that experience and ever since going through the temple, but I wasn't really sure where to start or how to begin. And I remember driving home from meeting with my Bishop and hearing the news that I was going to be the family history lead. And I just remember the voice of my dad saying. "This is something we can still do together." And, and I could just feel him there with me. He was proud of me.  I know that, that he was he knew my worries, he knew he knew that I was upset that that time was taken away from me and that I was worried that he wasn't going to be there. And this was the way that he was telling me that he was still there. And that there were still things that we could do together, even though he's on the other side of the veil. Ever since then, I have immensely felt his hand in my family history work. And it's been a real comfort to me. And it has really helped heal me and help me in my grief. And I know for a fact that family history work is essential, and that the other side is here with us. And if we could only put on our spiritual glasses, we would see them. When angels minister to us, it's not- they're not strangers. They're our family. They're our ancestors. And I know that him and my brother are helping me on this side of the veil. And I find it so amazing that they're there. And they're working on finding ancestors and teaching them the gospel. And I know for a fact that they helped me find those names so that I could take and do their work for them in the temple KARYN: That was Deserey. I don't know about you but I'd never thought of family history work quite that way. I love her perspective that it's a bridge and an opportunity to work together with those who have passed on before us. And I think that her perspective will change the way I view this work. I want to see it more as an opportunity and a blessing rather than a boring chore that I feel some guilt and shame about. I'm going to try a little bit harder to see it that way. As I was listening through all of my family's poorly recorded voice memos for this episode, I realized that there was one very important thing missing from my library. Apparently, and all of my recording I'd never asked my Pappy to record his conversion story. He's written it down in a few places. But I wanted to get it in his own words. So I begged my Aunt Kathy to record him. Here's what he shared. PAPPY: I mean, I was at work when two missionaries came to our door. My wife, she talked to them, and she invited them back when I would be home. And they came and taught us the gospel, which was The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When I first heard it, as I just thought it was another church, but when they taught me, I found out it wasn't just another church. I knew that it was true. I changed churches because when they taught me the word of wisdom, I was smoking three packs of cigarettes a day. At that time, and I threw them away and never smoked again. The Gospel changed my life. What I know about Jesus Christ. Christ when on the cross, setting the example for us. (singing)"The old, rugged cross where the dearest and best. For a world of lost sinners..." I'm trying to remember it."On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross The emblem of suffering and shame And I love that old cross where the dearest and best For a world of lost sinners was slain So I'll cherish the old rugged cross. And exchange it someday for a crown." What do I like about that song? I like to tell what our Savior did for us. I love you too. If I can do anything else for you, just call me. KARYN: That was my grandfather Robert Charles Fultz Jr. That short sweet story and song sum up so much of what I've learned from my Pappy's legacy of faith: Open the door to spiritual experiences. Bare your testimony through song. Always serve others no matter what's going on in your own life. And believe in the power of Jesus Christ to help you do whatever hard things are in front of you, even if you're trying to quit smoking three packs a day.  Elder Packer once said, "Family history work has the power to do something for the dead. It has an equal power to do something to the living. Family history work has a refining, spiritualizing and tempering influence on those who are engaged in it." I think our stories this week are absolutely proof of that truth to me. We are not alone in our desires to live the gospel well. And I know that we have countless family members whose stories can influence our lives and who are rooting for us, rooting for us to have the kind of stories that will strengthen the faith of those who come after us. That's it for this episode of This is the Gospel. Thank you for listening and thank you to Deserey and Sister Burton for sharing their stories. If you want to see the gorgeous children's book that they've made out of Sister Burton's family story, head on over to our show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. We'll have a link there to her book "A Mother's Prayer." A special thank you to my family Robert and Shirley Fultz, Susan O'Daily, and Kathy Yanks, for letting me share our family stories and for showing me an example of true discipleship with a sense of humor. If you have a story to share about living the gospel well, whether it's funny, touching, or miraculous, we'd love to hear it. Call our pitch line at 515-519-6179 and leave us a message with a short synopsis of your story. We get so many of our stories from this pitch line and we love hearing what you have to say. This episode was produced and edited by Katie Lambert and me KaRyn Lay. It was mixed and mastered and scored by Mix at Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hollstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and the other LDS Living podcasts at ldsliving.com/podcasts. That's ldsliving.com/podcasts. Have a great week.

After a devastating breakup, broadcast journalist Tamara decides to do something a little different for her 31st birthday: 31 dates in 31 days. But what starts as a fun blogging experiment quickly turns into big news and an even bigger spiritual eye-opener than Tamara initially assumed as she discovers more about who she is and how God sees the potential in all of us. SHOW NOTES This episode of This Is The Gospel is sponsored by GOSPEL DAY BY DAY. To find pictures and videos, please visit LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel TRANSCRIPT KaRyn Lay  0:04   Welcome to This Is The Gospel - an LDS living podcasts where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith everyday. I'm your host KaRyn Lay.  A few years ago LDS Living made a video series called, "Love Lessons." You may have seen them. We invited three couples who had collectively been married over 125 years to share their well- earned wisdom about life in the trenches of love and faith. I had just hit five years of marriage myself and was quickly learning that there was still so much I didn't know about this business of tying your life together with another person. I was so grateful to hear these honest stories of work and sacrifice and frankly, longevity. We made four videos with those couples, including the video of our friends, Jim and Lyndia and they are a delight. So, to kick off our theme today, which... we sort of stole from that video series, we thought it was only fair that we share the audio from the compilation video that features Vern and his wife, Myumi, Bonnie and her husband Bruce, and our buddies Jim and Lyndia. Bonnie  1:19   We've been married for 51 years.  Lyndia  1:22   54 years Vern  1:23   we're celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary this year. Friday the 13th turned out to be the luckiest day of my life.  Bonnie  1:30   I think what I love the most about Bruce is he's very kind.  Jim  1:35   She's a good cook Vern  1:36   Serene Lyndia  1:40   He is a very compassionate person.  Bruce  1:41   She is truly the person I always wanted to be. Vern  1:47   She is the epitome of serenity. Myumi  1:51   That's not.... Lyndia  1:51   One surprise to me about marriage after all these years is what  a joy it is at this stage. Bruce  1:56   I didn't know that it would be that wonderful again, As it was, you know, before we had all these little screaming Mimi's Bonnie  2:04   Well, it's not easy. And if anybody thinks that you're going to be on your honeymoon for 51 years, It's ridiculous. Jim  2:11   Sometime the tunnel's pretty long,  Lyndia  2:14   and dark. Well, it has been an enjoyable challenge. Because I've been introduced into a culture that I was just totally ignorant of. Bruce  2:23   It was very hard for her, I know that. What hurt so much? Bonnie  2:27   You! I think I had to been like in my 30s or early 40s. And I thought, this is it? This isn't....This isn't fun. Lyndia  2:38   It didn't matter to me that Jim wasn't a member of the church because I loved him very much. And I thought if I only live with him for this time only, then that was what I would be happy with. But a couple years later, when our children started to come along, I realized that was not true. That I wanted to be with my children and him forever,  Jim  2:55   Really, the only reason it worked in those early years... We both loved the Lord. And we taught our children to love the Lord,  Bonnie  3:05   The secret to anything I think, is holding to the rod. If you hold to the rod, and don't give up, when things are hard, there's always a way through. President Hinckley always said it  - that that this will pass and that things will get better and things always do get better. Lyndia  3:25   So you have to be patient and loving and see where it goes. Bruce  3:29   Yeah,  Bonnie  3:30   you're gonna have ups and downs and but it's worth it.  You cannot change someone to fit the mold you want them to be. Myumi  3:38   I just respect his space and he respect my space. I love him the way he is. Vern  3:45   Be sure to buy two tubes of toothpaste. Bonnie  3:50   I will say you are the love of my life. And I'm so grateful that we have stuck it out this long and I see us together another gazillion or Google? Do you say Google now? Jim  4:05   she's my babe. Bruce  4:08   And I love you. And I love the fact that I'm going to have you by my side forever. Lyndia  4:13   I love him so much. love being with him. Bonnie  4:22   How could you not kiss?  Bruce  4:24   Yeah. KaRyn Lay  4:34   You'll have to watch the videos to see those really adorable little smooches that you heard at the end of the audio. And we'll have that,  as well as each individual couple's video in our show notes at LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel . Really, if you're looking for something fun to celebrate the Spirit of St Valentine - This is it. You know, one of the things that I love most about the Love Lessons videos is that they represent the end result of a lifetime of learning about the true nature of love. Each of those couples paid the price to sit on that couch and dish about what love looks like for them.  Well, in today's episode, we have one story about someone at the beginning of that journey, who decided that in order to learn her lessons well, she needed to take an unconventional approach to the world of dating. And whether you are well seasoned in your own understanding of Christ -like love or struggling to make sense of something that sometimes feels like nonsense, Tamara's experienced will probably ring more than a few bells. Here's Tamara. Tamara  5:35   You know, some people would say I'm kind of living this Hollywood love story, because of the way that things played out or the ending or...well, I happen to actually live in Hollywood and work in Hollywood as well. But, I think it's more of this Hollywood love story because I honestly did not anticipate going into this with any expectations. Isn't that the best kind of story?  So, let's go back to New York in 2009. That's when this all started. Before that, I'd gone through two major breakups. You know, those heart heartbreaking types of breakups where it's like, you don't really care if you collapse into a ball of tears in public. You just aren't sure things are ever going to be mended again. And you start questioning yourself, you know, what am I doing wrong? And ... am I lovable? You know all these terrible things that we start to ask ourselves, and that was where I was, and my 31st birthday was coming up.  I was in a Singles Ward, and being in a singles ward and turning 31 means that you no longer go to the singles ward. Instead you go to a family word, and that was tough for me. I'd been in a singles ward since I joined the church in my early 20s. And so leaving a singles Ward was a big deal to me. It was leaving my friends. It was leaving my spiritual connections and kind of truthfully felt like I was a failure, because I was still single. I know that sounds terrible to say, but I did. I remember when I was 21 years old meeting a woman who was 28, who was still single in my ward and thinking, "Ah, how sad."  And then I was 31 and single, and thought, "it's not terrible." But I did feel like I didn't get it at this point... that I didn't understand dating. I wanted to learn something, I wanted to figure out what I needed to do to improve myself.  So I decided that it was time for me to just go back to the very basics of dating. And for me, that was first dates. It had been a long time since I'd just kind of dated I would go out on a first date, and then think. "it's going to be a long time until I have another first date. I should invest in as much in this person as I can right now." And I would decide that I was their girlfriend. They were my boyfriend. And probably way too soon. I decided I needed to just start over and go back to trying to develop friendships with people. I'm a TV news producer, I like to think of things in terms of projects. So I turned this into a little bit of a project. For my 31st birthday, I thought 30...31... 31 dates in 31 days. That's 31 days straight in a row of going out every night with a new guy. I kind of came up with a set of rules. The first 30 dates, I decided, would be a first date, and I would blog about it along the way. I wasn't intending on dating these guys much less marrying them, so they didn't have to meet any of my past list requirements. But I would go out with somebody as long as they didn't give me the creepy serial killer vibe. Basically, I'd go out with anybody who would agree to go out with me You know, I would make sure to do something that wasn't just like, a sit down dinner where it felt like I was like, interviewing the person in front of me. I definitely didn't want to do just your dinner and a movie for 31 days straight. I wanted it to be something more as a way to explore my city around me. And I kind of figured, if the guy and I did not have as much fun of a time  as we wanted, then at least we'd enjoy the scenery a little bit. I wanted to make sure that the date lasted at least 31 minutes. So you couldn't just walk up and say, "Hi, nice to meet you." and then bail. You had to start investing some time. It had to be in a public place. I put a price tag on it. I decided that if I were going to spend a month trying to invest in learning about myself and learning about men, I kind of looked at this a little bit of like my master's class in men. And just like any class, you should be willing to pay for it. So I set a budget of $31 a date And I had a secret rule for myself, no kissing any of these guys.  The 31st date, I decided, would be a second date. One of the guys that I'd met from the first 30 days. I'd hold a poll on my blog... people would help me decide who I would go out with on that second date. And date number 31 would occur on Valentine's Day.  I was afraid of a few things with this. I was afraid of not making it to the end. I was afraid that I would be exhausted. I was kind of afraid of what I would find out about myself. Because I wasn't sure. Like, am I really just not dateable? or I don't know. I had no idea what I would find out. I mean, I I was afraid that I probably wouldn't get anybody to go out with me. I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to get get 30 guys to go out with me. You know, that's a lot. I had maybe total on a good year, three first dates. You know, I'd have like two days in the summer and a bonus date in the winter. So there's no way that I was thinking 30 new guys would be realistic. I wasn't going into this thinking, "I'm going to find a boyfriend." In fact, that wasn't my goal at all. You know, I had realized maybe a year before that I really was afraid of getting married. In fact, I remember saying that out loud. "I don't want to get married." So crushing. Saying it out loud. It also felt true. For some reason marriage equalled being trapped. And I don't know, that just seemed scary to me. It seemed...to me, it felt like I wouldn't be able to really be happy or do the things that I wanted to do. And I thought, "Gosh, is that really how I look at marriage? Oh, who who would want that?" If that's the way I look at marriage. I thought, "Finally I've admitted the truth." Kind of felt like I had been dating with this goal of getting married and then all of a sudden I thought, "I don't want to get married. Well, then why am I doing this whole thing?" I wanted to make sure that I was living life on my terms, and with a full connection to Heavenly Father. I wanted to change myself. And I wanted to walk away learning something and having become...having... I wanted to walk away having a greater sense of who I was. I had asked my friend Marcus for a blessing before this began. I figured if I were going into this with my eyes and my arms and my heart wide open, I definitely needed some spiritual support. So, I asked Marcus for a blessing, and it gave me comfort but what it said in the blessing -- he told me that I was going to learn more lessons in this than I realized and that this was going to affect more people than just myself. So I felt as if I had a bigger responsibility than just going in this to have fun and date people.  So, in the beginning of the project, I only had three dates set up. Most of the guys were met either through internet hookups, through friend meetups, friends of friends of friends were most of the guys who I'd met. There were there were a handful of guys who had gone to church -- who were members of the Church of  Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but most of the guys were not guys from church.  My first date was with this guy, Rob, who's a friend of a friend, and, you know, not necessarily the type of guy that I could see myself fitting into his world in... in a few ways. He was from Long Island. He has a thick Long Island accent, and he wrote a motorcycle and he was like a guy's guy. He was the kind of guy who still hung out with guys from his childhood, and was best buds with them... really cool...Like, just dude's dude. By the end of the date, I could see myself riding on the back of his motorcycle, with my hair blowing in the wind and thinking  just how glorious life would be with Rob. And I realized something about myself in that moment -- that I had developed this habit of quickly imagining myself into the future with a guy who I'd found interesting, and I could see how I would quickly fall for these guys. But I didn't have time to really fall for Rob, because I had to go out with Joel the day after. This could actually be good for me and maybe it would help break my first bad habit of falling too quickly.  Date number four was with Ryan. Ryan had just moved to the city from a really small town in Michigan, and I lived in Harlem. And I thought, "let's go walk around Harlem to show him a place that's not like his small town where he's from." And we went to one of those classic Harlem churches that you see about in the movies, gigantic tall ceilings and the singing and the clapping is reverberating throughout the entire room. And we were clapping and singing. And there was a point when one of the people up front asked for people to stand up and testify. And Ryan stood up, and he testified. And he said, "I'm so glad that I came to this church today... never felt more welcome." And everyone said, "Amen." We walked out. I could tell that Ryan was being genuine. Like,there was something about him. And I asked him, "What is it that's happened in your life? Like, what is it that makes you just really feel deeply?" He tells me that when he was seven or eight years old, he was sitting in the second row in their family's van. And back then, people didn't really wear seatbelts. It was one of those seats that was like, just a long bench. And he had his elbows up and his fists under his chin, leaning forward talking to his mom in the driver's seat. Right as that happens, she hits a patch of ice. Ryan goes flying through the windshield. He was in a coma for several months. He had to learn how to walk and speak all over again. He missed pretty much that entire year of school. And he said ever since then, he's realized how precious life is. I could tell. I could tell he didn't take any day for granted. He didn't take anything for granted. And that's when I learned my second big lesson of this project. That there was something special about him. And I realized that there was something special about Ryan, there's probably something special about each of these guys that I was going to meet. So that was my assignment for myself. On every single date, I would ask myself, "what makes this person so special?" And I started to realize, as dates went on, and on, and on and on and on, each person that I met, had something different and remarkable about them. I realized I needed to treat all of these guys with respect, and be extremely open minded. In fact, I started to appreciate more people around me, not just the guys that I was going out on dates with, but I was appreciating every single person and realized that everyone was special.  I mean, I remember sitting on the subway and looking at other people and thinking, "Heavenly Father loves them just as much as he loves the rest of us. Now, typically, before this happened, I would think of the gift of discernment in terms of the gift of having the ability to judge well, right? or make a decision, but I ran across this definition, it says this, quote, "to understand or know something through the power of the Spirit." And then it goes on to say, "it includes perceiving the true character of people." That was what was happening. And I started to feel as if I could really see what made these guys so special. I felt like I had a glimpse of how Heavenly Father saw and that he really loved them. And if he sees all these guys that I'm going out with as special in some way, then he must see me that way too. was the first time that I really started to feel the way that Heavenly Father saw me. I thought it was pretty open minded before and that I, you know, gave a lot of people a chance and was friends with all sorts of different people. Butthis really changed the way that I looked at people. So a lot of times, I hear a lot of people go, "what was the worst date?" Oh, I hate the question. Having a positive attitude, and thinking about what makes a guy so special makes it so that you don't have a lot of bad dates. Having said that, date number 21 was with Derek. And I thought Derek and I had so much in common. We were both from Northern Virginia. And, you know, we kind of like jived well over email before meeting in person. But when I met him in person, he was so cold to me. He just gave me the cold shoulder. I would ask him anything about himself and he would give me one word answers. And it happened to be the date when I had a photographer from the New York Post following me to show how great my dates are going. Oh, it was so terrible. You know, any other day, I would probably think he was handsome, but he was being so short with me. And I thought, "this guy is super rude and nothing is special about him."  So we decided to walk about 10 blocks to go play billiards and I'm freezing and I'm holding my jacket in tight and I'm looking back at the photographer with my eyes rolling of "Can you believe this guy?" And just thinking how terrible this date is... and I say a prayer to myself. And the prayer was simple. It was this. "Heavenly Father, please help me see the good in this guy." Tamara  20:24   And I look up to him, and I think, "that beard's actually pretty cool." Tamara  20:33   I'm thinking he is really... handsome and, you know, just kind of getting him and he starts to open up to me. And then he tells me about how he has run an Iron Man. I was like, "An Iron Man? That's insane! I mean, that's a full- on marathon. 26.2 miles and then you're swimming like an entire ocean. And then you're cycling." I was like, "That is amazing." I said, "Did you love it?" And he says, "No, I hated it." I was like, "Oh, okay." And he said, "so I decided to do another one." What? Why would you do a second Iron Man, if you hated the first one, and he said, "Well, all of my friends told me that I was going to love it so much. And since I hated the first one, I figured I needed to give it another shot." You know, what endurance! I thought this guy was crazy in the best of ways. And we sat and laugh together. And he says, "Have all of your dates been this good?!" Tamara  21:42   And I said, " Well, no, they don't all start out great." Thinking..."Did he miss the entire first hour that we were together?" He said something like, "yeah, I guess I wasn't that warm when we first met today." And I said, "Yeah, what was up with that?" And he goes, "Well, I read your blog." And I said, "Well, what was on... What was on my blog that made you think that this wasn't going to be a good time?" He says, "You went out with all these great, guys. I don't know how you did it. But you found the best guys in New York City it seems like. How can I keep up with that?" I was like, "Derek, are you kidding me? You're amazing. You completed two Ironman competitions, just because... Because you thought, 'Hey, why don't I try that?'" I mean, he was one of the best guys in New York too, but I probably would have missed it had it not been for this project.  Once I started writing about each date, I think people realized, Hey, I'm actually in this for fun - that I wasn't going to be so catty about things. I'm not trying to like, write about, Oh, you know, how terrible this first date was, and I think that helped get more guys to come. And lots of guys were like, "Hey, I'm totally down for that. Let's just go and check out the city." So some guys would read my blog and they'd write me. But most of my dates were friends of friends or friends of friends, friends,  So, crushes. I actually started to develop a lot of crushes. Of course, Derek, you know, who I thought I hated? was one of them. I had crushes on probably a third of the guys. And one of them, you know, was like, "Hey, can we go out on another date?" and I was like, "Well, I happen to be dating a few dozen other guys right now. So maybe after the project, I can go out on a date." But, I just didn't have time. I was working full time during the day, going out on dates right after that, coming home and blogging. And then I still had to maintain the relationships with the guys who I'd already met and try and set up dates for guys in the future. So I had packed days. I was exhausted. Date 14, I wasn't sure that I was going to survive. I was so tired. Dating is tough work. There were a handful who I kept in touch with regularly because I thought I might want to go out with them again after the project. And if they didn't want to go out with me, I realized I actually was okay with that. I had fun with just having a crush on them. I didn't need to have them like me back. That was huge for me. I wasn't crushed by my crushes. So my last few dates come and I needed to figure out who I was going to go out on a second date. But 31st date was a little different. It was Valentine's Day. I wanted it to be big. I blew my budget for it. So I got tickets to a Broadway show. And I was going to pay for a nice dinner. And not only that, but I was going to go on to national television -- "Good Morning America", and "Fox and Friends" and talk about who I'd picked. I was working at "Good Morning America" at the time and, you know, my co-workers were really excited about it. So, they were also going to follow me to dinner for the date that night, and a few other news outlets picked up on it as well. And so this had become bigger than I had imagined. Just like Marcus had told me in my blessing before. So, I reached out to every single one of the guys and I said, "Okay, I would love to go out again with you guys." It was kind of funny saying that to 30 guys, "I want to go out with you again." I told them how much national attention this had been getting and if they weren't into it, then that's fine. I would just hopefully go out on another date with them after the project. So most of the guys were interested in going out with me for the 31st day and thought that that would be fun. Not all of them, most of them, and some of them said, "Not interested, but I'll see you after your 31st date."   I gathered a lot blog readers over this time, which was funny. I thought only my mom and maybe like a handful of my friends would read this. And I said, "Okay, guys, it's time. We're going to figure out who my Valentine's Day date is. Who is date number 31?" And they would get 50% of the vote, and then I would get the other 50%. So I ran the poll with all the guys who were interested in going on national television and having video recorded of their date with me. I was sitting up late that night, my friend Rachel had come over, and we're seeing all the poll numbers come in, and the polls closed right around midnight, and it's down to two guys. And I'm trying to figure out who to go out with, and I say "This one guy. I could see myself dating him, maybe even being in a relationship with him and having a lot of fun. But this other guy, I could really see myself marrying someday." And Rachel says, "Well, there you go then." And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And she says, "Look, these last 30 days have been so great for you. You have gotten what you wanted. Like, you figured out a lot about yourself. You saw the good in people and realized what makes them so special." She said, "Well, what's Heavenly Father's other purpose in dating? If you think that there might be something there with this guy, then go out with him." And so I did.  And a year later, we got married. And I cannot believe that that is like, my real story. That this whole project to figure out myself and what I was doing, quote unquote, "wrong", turned into this amazing ending that I truly didn't expect. And it's not just because I got married and it's this, you know, happy ending. It's a happy ending because I found love. I found true love, Heavenly Father's love -- the way that he loves all of us. When I realized that I didn't want to get married, that was information that I could work with. I had to redefine, you know, at 30 - 31 years old, what marriage would look like. I thought, "Well, if I were to get married, then what would it have to look like for me to actually want to get married?" Being able to meet one guy and then another guy and then another guy and another guy -- It was pretty easy for me to kind of figure out "Yeah, this is the kind of guy who I could see myself in a relationship with." You know. So it's not like this is the like, perfect formula for everybody to find love. You don't need to go out on a date every day for a month to figure that out. I sure hope that Heavenly Father teaches us each that lesson  in his own different way. This, this just happened to be the way that I needed to learn it. You know, I truly believe that I was ready to learn something about myself and learn something about dating. And that Heavenly Father was probably like, "thank goodness! She's finally opening herself up to let me be in charge of this, like, move over a girl." And I really believe that when we give Heavenly Father the room to teach us well, He will show us lessons and a life way better than we ever could have imagined. He continues to show that to me. So, life is a little different now. You know, that was 11 years ago, and we just had our 10 year wedding anniversary. We just had our third baby girl, and life is pretty fun. It's really simple but It's really fun. It's funny. because I think when they first hear how we met, sometimes people probably think that we like live life like that all the time. But we have our favorite TV shows that we sit and watch after the girls go to bed. You know, we do swim class on Saturday mornings. Life is simple, and it's good. It's better than good. It's, it's great. It's the good stuff.  There's a copy of my book, sitting in our living room. And, you know, the girls, they see this copy, and it's just, you know, a piece of our living room. And I think someday when they're old enough to read it, or to ask me about how we met, the lessons that I teach them are probably the same simple lessons that I learned. That I not only got to meet your dad through this, but I got to meet some pretty incredible people. And I learned how Heavenly Father loves each of us for who we really are. And that he loves them that way too. KaRyn Lay  31:03   That was Tamara Duricka Johnson and her blog, "31 Dates in 31 Days" is still up. Although it's not really being upDATED these days.  Get it? updated?  Get it? Anyway, any date that she would write about now would include her husband Evan, and those three sweet girls who call her mama. Tam and I have been friends since our early 20s. we bonded over our displacement as two East Coast girls living in the rainy rainy jungles of Portland, Oregon. She has always been a go- getter. But when she started this ambitious and exhausting project, I think all of us who knew and loved her realized that we were watching something really unique unfold. Like Derek, also known as date number 21, Tamara was going after the things that she wanted. It wasn't an Iron Man race, but it was a race nonetheless. The difference was that the prize at the end of this grueling course was a deeper knowledge of the kind of love that can actually make a difference in our lives. And really, it's the kind of love that can change the world.  Look, I don't mean to be dramatic, but it's dramatic. When Tamara allowed herself to access God's perspective on the men that she was dating, a spiritual gift that I like to call divine empathy, she saw them differently. And then she treated them differently. Sometimes they acted differently because of it, and sometimes they didn't. But that kind of doesn't matter. Because in the process of seeing the Divinity in them, Tamara came to understand who she was in relationship to God's love more clearly. And because of that, she was changed forever. I think it's important to note that Tamara had to ask for it. She had to invite Heavenly Father to gift her with his perspective as she practice divine empathy. But when it was given to her, she acknowledged it and didn't hesitate to pass it around... to share the love.  Remember that moment on the train from her story when she looked around and saw every person as worthy of God's love? Well, I think that's the definition of what the prophet Nephi described in fourth Nephi chapter one verses 15 and 16, when he wrote, "and it came to pass, that there was no contention in the land because of the love of God, which did dwell in the hearts of the people." I love the idea of love dwelling in our hearts. It means that love lives there, that it's taken up residency and it's settled in, it's become part of the cycles of the blood beating in and out of our true center. And according to ni fi, that dwelling love has the power to calm the envying, the strife and the tumbled so that there could not be as Nephi wrote, "a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God." Isn't that dramatic? What would change in our world -- the small one that swirls around us and the big one that twists and turns around the Sun every day --If we, as a people could find space in our hearts for the love of God to dwell. Well, whether we are seeking a committed marriage relationship with another human being, or seeking a committed covenant relationship with the Savior of our souls, that power of peace that comes from asking for the perspective of divine empathy, and then offering our hearts as a dwelling place for pure love, well, that's worth every 31 day sprint, and every exhausting effort that we take to get there. Those love lessons are the ones that will change the world. That's it for this episode of This Is The Gospel. Thank you to all of our friends who are part of the Love Lessons video series. Shout out to the Knowltons, brave and true and especially to our storyteller Tamara for sharing her war stories and her lessons in love with us. We'll have links to all the videos and Tamara's book and blog as well as a transcript of this episode in our show notes at LDS living.com/thisisthegospel. Hey, it's Valentine's Day. So if you have a minute to tell us what you LOVE about this podcast, we'd love to hear it. Please go to iTunes and leave us a review. If you don't know how to do that. Find us on Instagram @thisisthegospel_podcast, where we will have a story in our highlights that will show you how to leave a review. Every review helps us to spread the love of faith filled stories that really matter. Speaking of good stories, all of the stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a story to share about Living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. We often find many of our stories from the pitch line and we love to hear how the gospel has blessed your life. Give us a call at 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. This episode was produced and edited by me KaRyn Lay with additional story producing and editing by Skyler Brunner. He's the genius behind the love lessons videos. It was scored, mixed and mastered by mix at six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and the other LDS living podcasts at LDSliving.com/podcasts. Happy Valentine's Day! Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Following her parents’ divorce, Courtney Rich experienced depression for the first time. Doctors called it situational but in the years since, depression has become an ever-present obstacle in her life. However, in recent years two things have transformed and aided her fight against mental illness.  “I prayed at the beginning of that summer and said, ‘I will do everything you need me to do. I am giving you my all because I need this from you. I need to know that you’re there. I need to know that you see me when I’m going through these moments of trial and I don’t feel you, I need to know that you’re there…'" Show Notes 2:40- The Kelly Clarkson Show 5:00- Beginnings in Broadcast 9:31- A Child of Divorce 17:23- Depression- “The First Day I Felt Different” 23:15- The Guilt of Feeling Ungrateful 24:45- Coming to Christ Vs. Waiting for Him to Come to Us 32:04- Looking for His Hand 37:17- When You’ve Had Really Great Cake… 42:40- A Point of Desperation That Led to Light 45:26- What Does It Mean To Be “All In” the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Stories in this episode: Laric breezes through sleep deprivation games on the Netflix show "Awake," but the final results leave him wondering if God cares about what matters most to him; A lost set of scriptures devastates Mark, but how they come back to him years later is nothing short of a miracle; David struggles to adjust to his mission in the Philippines until losing a contact lens in the mud helps him gain a new perspective. SHOWNOTES: This episode is sponsored by Gospel Day by Day Check out pictures of Laric, Mark, and David at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. you can also see a picture of the heart necklace and KaRyn's bangs! TRANSCRIPT: KaRyn  0:03   Welcome to This Is The Gospel, an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host KaRyn Lay. If you were to ask my husband Justin, what my biggest quirk is, he will easily tell you that it's the fact that I lose everything all the time. Our morning routine inevitably includes him calling my phone three or four times to help me find where I've stashed it in the 30 minutes between waking up and getting dressed. It shouldn't be that hard. Our house is not big by any stretch of the imagination. And still, I lose my phone daily. I find it under a pile of clothing or in the pantry on the shelf next to a jar of pickles. Don't worry, I don't eat pickles for breakfast– usually. Sometimes it's right in the pocket of the pants that I'm literally wearing. Losing things is just part of who I am, in fact, is such a part of me that after two years of living in Korea, I finished out my time in the Seoul military branch by giving a talk in which I cataloged all the things I'd lost while living there. Mostly things I left on buses or in taxis: a computer, an iPod, a hard drive with every poem I'd ever written on it. Books, glasses, a couple of wallets, at least two journals, countless pens, pencils, bobby pins, and papers and most devastatingly my well-worn mission scriptures. Usually, I lose small things, but sometimes every once in a while I lose very big things. When I was in college, I borrowed a friend's truck so I could haul something around the streets of Philadelphia and I honestly can't remember what, but I planned to return it to him in the morning. So as a poor college student, I opted to park it on the street where it wasn't going to cost me anything. And if you've ever been to Philly, then you know that parking in that city is a hot mess, a nightmare with loads and loads of special zones and one-way streets and half cock signage that doesn't actually tell you where you can and can't park. So I did my best to read the signs and after driving in circles, I finally parallel parked on a side street near the corner that seemed safe-ish, and I called it a night. When I woke up in the morning and headed back to that same spot to take the truck to my friend's apartment, it wasn't where I left it. I mean, it wasn't where I thought I left it. I walked around six city blocks convinced that I just couldn't remember where I'd parked. But after the final go-round, it became absolutely clear that the truck just wasn't there anymore. I had lost a truck. So I girded up my loins, I found a payphone and I called my friend to confess. I mean, it really wasn't outside the scope of reality that I could lose something like this. I lost things all the time. So through tears, I explained that I didn't know where his truck was, at which point to my deep surprise, my friend started to laugh. He then made his own confession. He had hopped on his bike and written through the streets near where he thought I might have parked it, located his truck and used his spare set of keys to take it back to his apartment. I will never forget the panic that I felt of believing that I'd lost something of someone else's. And then the sense of relief and anger that flooded me when I realized that I hadn't actually lost it. The real miracle in that story is that this guy and I remained friends. Now, in the years since that traumatic event, I admit that I've become almost cavalier in my attitude about losing things. I still have that sinking feeling when I realized something I care about is gone. But I am so much quicker to move right into my mantra that things are just things. For better for worse, I have reconciled myself to being, well, a loser of things. So today, we have three stories about losing stuff, and finding stuff, from three people who lost something they needed, wanted, or hoped for. In some cases, they found the thing again, but in all the cases their experience helps them to see themselves and their connection to God more clearly. Our first story comes from a Laric who had the chance of a lifetime when he found himself competing on a game show just minutes away from winning a million dollars. Here's Laric: Laric  4:19   So I have wanted to be on a game show ever since I was a little kid. I grew up loving to watch Temple of Doom and all those Nickelodeon game shows and just was always interested in going on one. It just looked like a lot of fun to me. I don't know. I mean, even watching the little kid shows the prizes were just toys and things like that. But I just, I just wanted to go and compete. It wasn't even necessarily about what you could win. It was just wanting to do those cool tasks and challenges that you couldn't do anywhere else. So this desire to be on a game show kind of stems with my oldest sister. We have both loved the idea of going on game shows. And so we both started to apply for certain ones, not every one, just ones that we thought we'd be good at. I'd just google every few months new game shows. And if I think it looks interesting or that I'd be good at it, that's when I apply for it. I applied for a show called The Wall, which I was interesting because I applied with my friend. So he made it on but I didn't get to go with him. So after I applied for The Wall and didn't get on that one, my next show was Awake. And this one popped out at me because all it said was it was a sleep deprivation game. And I'm like, Well, I work 48-hour shifts and 72-hour shifts all the time as a firefighter, where I get little to no sleep frequently. So I figured that that would be a great game for me, even though I have no idea what anything else is. Because it's a brand new game show that just says sleep deprivation. I figured I could do that one. And then they said I was picked to go on the competition. It all happened really fast. It was just a couple, I think it was like two months that it all happened. And they said I'd be filming in Los Angeles within the next month. You know, called me set up my airport that I was supposed to go to and flew me out to Los Angeles. So I knew I wanted to get a good amount of sleep. So I tried to go to bed early because I was going to be up for at least the next 24 hours. But it was a little hard going to sleep though. But once we woke up, I had breakfast and they loaded us up in a couple of vans and drove us to the location where the show would be taped. So all I knew about this show before I went was that it was going to be a sleep deprivation game. I had no idea what the money prize was. I had no idea what we were going to be doing to stay awake for 24 hours or if we were going to be playing games. I just had no idea what was going to happen. It was hard because I usually like to prepare and I had no way to prepare, because I had no idea what was to come. Finally, it comes time and the director comes in or the producer and says, "Okay, I'm going to hand you this paperwork. It's going to explain the game and how it works and all the rules. Once I hand you the paperwork, you're not allowed to talk to each other. Once we've all finished reading it, and you guys sign this paper that say, you understand we will begin the game." And that's when I learned that we're going to be counting quarters for the next 24 hours. And I just like, gasped out loud, like, That's insane. Counting quarters for 24 hours who, who decided to do that? And then afterward, there was the sleep deprivation challenges that we had to perform. And that's when I learned that you could win a million dollars if you counted so accurately and made it to the end of the game. And I was just like, "Yes! I'm doing it. I'm winning a million dollars. This is happening." I am ecstatic. So I'm kind of freaking out. So after we finished reading the contract and found out the money amount and the rules, they immediately got us up and we walked into the room where the game show would start. And so it was within, like, 10 minutes that we read the contract and began the game. I was, well, at least me, I was in frantic mode. And I wasn't thinking I was just counting. While we were counting, there were no clocks anywhere. There was no way to tell how long we'd been counting. And so your mind starts to wander and you start to get a little tired and delirious and, like, legitimately, we were counting for 24 hours and I never actually stopped and took a break, besides the bathroom break. 30 minutes into the show, I decided there's no way I could go for a million dollars. There's no way I'd be right because to get a million dollars at the end, you have to be within $25 of your count. So what you turn in and what you actually counted has to be within $25 I was like, "Okay, I know that I'm missing some quarters." And I thought, maybe I need to just add a certain amount, like 250 or whatever amount of dollars just to account for what I have probably missed. Last second, I thought, "No, Leric, you should just trust yourself, you probably didn't miss that much. Just write what you actually think you counted instead of adding to it." And so that's what I did. Which would come to be my demise later. So the time ran out, and they take our quarters away in these huge were wheelbarrows, which they've taken away multiple times. So we filled up those wheelbarrows a couple of times. So we gave our number to the directors and then we were moved to a different location of the IKEA, and we started a different portion of the game. And this portion of the game was a competition type of thing where we do tasks that are difficult to do while you are sleep deprived. But first, before we start those tasks we are brought up to the stage and all of the sudden, you know, we moved from this warehouse to this really elaborate well-done stage with audience members that were there. And it was just, it was a lot of fun and a really cool atmosphere. But we all get brought up to this stage, we meet the host. And immediately after we're introduced, two of us get kicked off the show.   The person that counted the least gets kicked off, and the person that counted the most inaccurately gets kicked off. After those two get kicked off, we were explained the first game, and the first game is drinking a huge slushy for, I can't remember the time limit but for a certain amount of time, and whoever drinks the most wins. So we play this game and we all play next to each other but we all have dividers up so we can't see how each other did I was drinking it so fast that I never got a brain freeze because it never you get a brain freeze from it touching the roof of your mouth. Well, I never touch the roof of my mouth and was straight down my throat. So I got a chest freeze, and it like right in my heart. And it was the worst chest pain I've ever felt in my life it was very painful. And there's this lady in the audience screaming to me, she goes, "you're not gonna die, you're not gonna die." And I remember thinking like, "you're right, I'm not gonna die. It's just pain." So I kept going and drank it as fast as I could. So that was a lot of fun. So after that was done, we all get brought up, they announced that I won. So I was moved on to the next portion automatically. So the next challenge is the one that made me the most nervous, and it was a sewing challenge. Obviously, when you're sleep-deprived, that precision is hard and your hands tremble and it's hard to really focus on small objects. I was really nervous about this one, because I'm not good at those precision skills anyways, and I'm sleep deprived. But again, so we start that, that competition, and we can't see each other so no one knows how each other is doing. But anyways, same concept we're all brought up after that game is done. And they announce who won, which duh-du-du-duh it was me again. So then I moved on to the next challenge along with two other competitors. So there's just three of us left, and this one was a money catching challenge. And this one I was the most confident on because, you know, I was a receiver in high school football and I have good hand-eye coordination. So I was really excited about this one. So I went and immediately started and once I popped that first balloon, I knew it was much harder than I thought because it was very difficult catching this money. This is the first time I really felt the effects of being sleep deprived. Because I just could not focus on this money falling, I just couldn't find it in the air and keep track of it and catch it with my hands. I had a really hard time finding it. And then we're brought up on stage again, to announce the winner. And this time, to my surprise, I won again, which was awesome for me. So now I automatically get to go to the final two. But then, sadly, I was up against the one person I didn't want to be up against, which was just very disheartening to me. And the last challenge wasn't necessarily a challenge. It was this is where the counting came into play. So between the two of us, whoever counted the most accurately, it wasn't the most it was whoever kind of most accurately was the one who got to move on. And we were offered a buyout and this one was a $10,000 buyout. And that was a little tempting for me, I wanted that $10,000. I didn't want to up against this guy, because I thought that he had counted better than me. But I was on such a winning streak that I kind of took it as a sign that no you should keep going, you know when the countdown started, we get 10 seconds to take the buyout. Nobody took the buyout and I said, I shook his hand and I said, "Dude, I know you beat me." And sure enough, he beat me and he got to move on to the final rounds where I went home with nothing. In that moment, I was still kind of on a high with the whole show. I felt okay, I wasn't that bummed. You know, I said the typical saying that. People say, "Oh, I came here with nothing. I can go home with nothing." It's no big deal. So it didn't really bother me. 'Til I got back to the hotel, I had about eight hours of sleep. After I woke up, that's when it really hit me of what I had done. Not only did I not win as much as I thought I would, I didn't win anything. I could have taken $10,000. And that's when it really hit me, where I regret started coming in, I started to feel sick to my stomach about what I did. I was confused about why I didn't win, you know because I felt like I could have and should have and all types of things were going through my head. I was really hoping to win a large amount of money because I work 48-hour shifts already as a firefighter. And a lot of times I have to pick up overtime shifts and I work 72-hour shifts so that that's a long time away from home, you know because we sleep at the station and were away from our family the whole time. And so I wanted to win this money to just be able to handle our bills easier and not have to work overtime anymore. Like so that means I could stay at home with my kids a lot more, be around my family a lot more, maybe do some fun side projects, things like that. So I just really wanted to get over the need of doing any overtime. And that was like my main goal. I was following all the steps before the competition. The night before I was praying that I would do well. I even watched General Conference talks just to try to help me out and get me in a spiritual mood where maybe I could be taking cues from the Spirit during the show. And so when I lost and didn't come home with anything, it was really hard for me. I had a really hard time understanding why Heavenly Father didn't want to help me out in this matter when I had asked for help, and where I thought that I deserved it. And I had good reasons for wanting this money, you know because it would allow me to spend more time with my family. The next few months were actually pretty, they were just hard for me I had a lot of sleepless nights. Not only did I wonder why Heavenly Father didn't help me with it. I played the what-if game and What if I had done this, What if I counted differently? And just all these things were going through my head? What's interesting is I was going through the feelings of disappointment and not understanding why my prayers weren't answered. And why wouldn't Heavenly Father want me to be able to spend more time with my family and, and I am active in the church and I fulfill my calling,  why wouldn't I get this blessing? At the time I was teaching Sunday school, and we ended up having this lesson about eternal matters. And in that lesson, it talks about how Heavenly Father concerns himself only with eternal matters. That includes our happiness but, but basically the steps that we're taking for salvation and growing closer towards him, and things like that. And it wasn't until then that it kind of finally dawned on me. And I finally let go of all of those bad feelings that I was having because I realized this Show and that money is just an earthly matter. I have everything I need. I even have most of what I want. I work hard for what I get. But at the end of the day, Heavenly Father just doesn't care if I win a game show or not, you know, just like any other thing. He doesn't care who wins the Super Bowl, or who won this championship, or who won that; He's got no skin in that game because it's not an eternal matter. And so I realized that I already have the blessings that I was basically asking for, that he's already given me these blessings. And maybe I just wasn't recognizing them at the time. I wanted to spend more time with my family with that money. But Heavenly Father always helps us find the time that we have and make the time more meaningful. Heavenly Father's going to take care of us. And it doesn't mean He's not going to put us through trials or things that are difficult. But He's going to give us a way to overcome those trials which I look at this as a trial and it was a trial of my faith, but He always gives us a way to overcome those trials and to come out even better than before.   KaRyn  19:24   That was Leric. You can watch Leric's episode of the show Awake on Netflix, which is where my family and I first thought, in my line of work, you get pretty good at spotting someone who might be a member of the Church in various settings. And when my family was watching the show, and Leric said, "O m g, oh my goodness." I turned to my husband Justin. I said, "I bet he's a Latter-day Saint." Well, I reached out to Leric through good old Facebook and the rest is history. I am so glad that we were able to have him tell this story. Our next story of Lost and Found comes from Mark who lost something irreplaceable and the came back to him is truly epic. Here's Mark.   Mark  20:05   I hadn't done a lot of studying before my mission, I kind of went out unprepared. And, you know, I was kind of a scared, timid little boy, with a weak testimony and poor knowledge of the gospel at that point. Still wanting to go out on a mission and do what I was supposed to do, but unfortunately, had not prepared myself at all. And my parents decided to buy me a brand new set of scriptures, it was a leather-bound quad. Because at that point, I'd never really had my own scriptures and they wanted me to have a nice set to take on my mission. And so this set of scriptures they got me became kind of important to me because it was my first set that I was going to be able to go through and read and mark the way that the Spirit directed as I read them. While I was excited when I opened my mission call to Nashville, Tennessee, and when I finally got out there, I realized how hard and trying it was to be on a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ. I didn't really realize how hard that would be to make the change from thinking and serving yourself all the time just to serving others full time. Because I went out so unprepared, I found myself in a situation where I would just lock up all the time when teaching discussions. I realized that you can't teach the gospel unless you've prepared yourself in such a way that you know and understand the scriptures and you, more importantly, understand how the Spirit and the Holy Ghost works are able to use that to communicate your testimony to others, I'd been in the mission field for about a year, and I had finally begun to feel comfortable with my teaching skills and my knowledge of the Scriptures. And this level of comfort came in part because of the time and effort I had spent marking my scriptures in such a way that I could find things easily. I grew to love the set of scriptures. There was even a spot at the end of the Book of Mormon where my mom had written in the margins that she loved me and was proud of what I was doing. And you know, this spot the end of the Book of Mormon in Moroni, Chapter 10, verses three through five. This is where she wrote this note to me. Somehow she knew I would be spending a lot of time in those special verses I think.   These scriptures were somewhat of a security blanket to me, especially as I got them marked in the way where I could find things easily and teach out of them. Leaving my apartment one day to go to zone conference, and I set my scriptures on top of the car to unlock the door. And then I jumped in the car and I forgot that the scriptures were on the roof. We headed down the freeway to Dickson, Tennessee. Now as you can guess the scriptures didn't make it to zone conference. Oh, boy. Well, I was devastated. They were the one thing I had that helped me to feel comfortable as a missionary. I wanted to go back and find the scriptures, but we didn't have the miles to go looking for them. And the Spirit had really told me in my heart that they were gone, that I needed to go get a new set and start over. So that's what I did. I think part of the reason that my Heavenly Father wanted me to lose this set of scriptures was because He realized I was probably leaning on them a little too much, rather than teaching by the Spirit. And I think He kind of realized that I may have hit somewhat of a wall. I began to understand that it was more important to listen to the Spirit when teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, rather than constantly turning to the same scripture that I'd used 50 times over. I began to understand how our Feavenly Father works. And more importantly, how much He loves each one of His children and cares for them on an individual basis. And I realized that you can't just go in and teach the same lesson to every single person because our Heavenly Father loves each one of us individually, and knows us individually. And each person is going to need something a little bit different. And so my testimony was strengthened of the love that our Heavenly Father has for us.   Fast forward five years, and I'd been home for quite a while now. My brother Seth received and opened his mission call to Nashville, Tennessee mission. I was very excited for my brother to go to the same mission I did and not only that, that's also where my grandparents are from is from Tennessee. They were converted to the gospel there as they were raising tobacco and running moonshine. They were hillbilly rednecks in Tennessee. So I was, I was excited when I went to Tennessee and I was very excited for Seth to go experience some of the same things I was blessed to experience. Seth had been out in the field for about two weeks. And he was going to church for the second time. And he was struggling with homesickness and a few other trials at the time. Sunday morning, he and his companion entered the chapel. One of the members just walked up to him and handed Seth a set of scriptures. Seth took the scriptures with a kind of a confused look on his face, he tells me and he said, "they're not my scriptures," and the brother was sure they belong to him because he had Elder Mays is written on his name tag. And Seth kind of being green in the mission. He didn't even put a whole lot of thought into what was going on. And so he just took the scriptures, and he brought them home with him. And the next morning, he said that he finally opened up the scriptures and he flipped right to the part where our mom had written in the margins. Feeling that the handwriting was familiar. He then looked on the front page and saw my name and address recognizing it was his home address as well. This is when the Spirit fell over him. And he realized what the Lord had done for him at this difficult time at the beginning of his mission, and it brought great peace to him. So, Seth continued to use my scriptures for the remainder of his mission. And he told me that as he would read my notes and look at the things I had marked, it felt as if I was his personal study companion.   Seth wanted to do some investigating on how these scriptures came into his possession. And so he asked the brother they gave him to him in church, where they came from. And basically, the story was that his brother was a highway worker. And he was doing some work on the highway one afternoon and he came across my set of scriptures that was laying there in the bar ditch. Which obviously it must have been fairly quick right after I lost them. Because my quad doesn't show any water damage or even any real damage from staying out in the sun for too long. So he picked him up and he was not a member of the church, but he felt they looked important so he brought them home with him. And he kind of read them looked at them, browsed them once in a while, and he was interested in them because his brother was a member of the Church, had recently been converted. What he finally decided to do was to return these scriptures to his brother, Seth could tell the story better than I could but from what I understand, he kind of had hard feelings with his brother because he had joined the church and he decided that this was a sign from God that he should mend things up with his brother. And so he went to his brother and told him he was sorry for kind of disowning him. And he gave him my scriptures and said, "These belong to someone who thinks they're important. I can tell by the markings. So would you please return them to the correct owner for me?"And then his brother said that he would but he actually just set them on his shelf and his son began using them as his seminary scriptures taken him to the church every week for seminary study. And one week, he forgot them there at seminary, and this was when the brother church picked him up at church, read the name on the front, and then my brother walked in the church. He looked at my brother, read the name on his name tag and matched up the scriptures with the name tag. Walked over and hand in the scriptures to my brother. When I found out that Seth had the scriptures back in his possession, I can't describe the feeling but just a feeling of great joy. Not only that, I got my scriptures back, which, which did make me happy, but just the thought that our Heavenly Father could show up for my brother during that time of difficulty. In such a personal way that I could never have done on my own. And there's even a little bit more to the story that I'd like to share. When Seth and I were reunited at the airport, I remember him walking down the flight of stairs and he looked so different than when he had left, looked full of the Spirit. And I noticed he was holding my set of scriptures in his hand, I recognized them and we embraced each other. And then with a big smile on his face, he handed me my lost set of scriptures. I took them all my nowhere that they would still be miraculous in my life. As time went by, I began to have some doubts and questions about church and church doctrine. I was just kind of in a place where I was trying to make sense of everything and understanding whether or not I was needing to be all into the gospel of Jesus Christ, or if I should take a step back. And I just wasn't feeling very good about the space I was in and I think I'd kind of lost focus in my life. During this time, I had been studying pretty much everything on the church, other than the actual scriptures that I should have been reading every single day. And I believe this is how I lost my focus. As I sat, thinking about this that's when I caught a glimpse of my scriptures up on the shelf. And the Spirit whispered to me in that moment, I just sat there looking at them. And the Spirit whispered to me, "Mark, these are the words of eternal life. Quit putting so much of your time and effort into the opinions of men." And as I thought about that direction from the spirit, I walked over and picked up my scriptures. And, unfortunately, dusted them off. The Spirit just confirmed to me that I needed to read them every single day to get my testimony back and to get back on track. It was such a clear inspiration that I made a promise to Heavenly Father I just said a prayer and made a promise that I would read out of those scriptures every single morning. And as I did that, everything came together for me. My experience with losing and then finding these scriptures has changed my testimony in such a way that, that there's no doubt. I think of the small tender mercies that our Heavenly Father is willing to bless us with, if we continually try to do His work, at the rate that we're ready for. He's so personally aware of where we're at and how we need things to happen in our life in order to truly understand that he's there for us, and to help our faith grow. That He will do things for us like He did for my brother and I with the set of scriptures in such a personal way, that there's no doubt that He is with you, as an individual person, at all times and in all places.   KaRyn  33:02   That was Mark. Mark's story resonates with me a lot, remember that lost set of mission scriptures that I mentioned before? But what I love about Mark's perspective is that although he lost something he thought he absolutely couldn't live without, that loss was actually the catalyst for some serious spiritual growth. And isn't it so amazing to think that something we lose could actually become the thing that someone else finds when they most need it like Mark's brother? I often think about my own missionary scriptures, riding all alone around Seoul on a bus seat all by themselves. I love to think that someone who was desperate and excited to learn English, pick them up and maybe took them home so they could read it when they needed something to practice with. Who knows the life these scriptures have had, especially considering the life that those scriptures can bring. Our final story comes from David who discovered that losing your sight has more than one consequence. Here's David.f   David  33:59   I've always wanted to serve a mission since primary. And it was just a natural choice. It wasn't anything that I even thought about. When I received my mission call to the Philippines, the call stated that it was like an English speaking mission. So I was to go through an English district in the MTC, but when I got to the Philippines, I didn't hear a lot of English being spoken. And so that was a big shock. I would go to lessons. And in our apartment, of course, the missionaries were all speaking Cebuano and I didn't understand anything that my companion or the families that we were teaching, I didn't understand anything that was being said. It was very motivating for me to learn the language as fast as I could, but it was hard. I felt very alone and isolated, and like I wasn't doing anything to really help. I had been serving about two months in the Philippines. And on one particular night my companion and I had arranged with a fellowshipper in the ward to accompany us as we went teaching. And we had three appointments scheduled that night, spread out in the evening. It was a rainy night, and as we went to our first appointment, their family wasn't there, or we weren't able to meet with them. And so we tried to be productive and do some other things, just visiting with people nearby. And we started walking to our next appointment. And we would try to meet people along the way and use our time. When we arrived at our second appointment, that one fell through also. And so we decided, well, maybe we'll go to our third appointment a little bit early, and we could either spend more time with them or we could get our fellowshipper home earlier. And along the way, we were trying to meet people, maybe knock on some doors, what we call tracting. And we arrived at our third appointment and that one also fell through. And so as I'm going through culture shock, not understanding the language, introduced to new foods, the schedule of the mission, the rigors of the mission, the heat and the humidity, a new nation, a new culture. I was feeling so isolated and alone and that night, having finished a night that just everything fell through. I didn't feel like there was a lot of joy in my mission. Well, as we were, we decided to return our fellowshipper to her home. And it was we were walking along a dirt path, and it was still raining so the path was wet and muddy with puddles, we walked by a little store that we called a sari-sari store. It was like a little shack made out of wood, it had a window in it, not a glass window, kind of a mesh window. And you could buy items there. And the light was on in the sari-sari store. And as we walked by, I turned my head partway a little bit. And I also moved my eyes towards the store and I blinked my contact lens in my eye and one of my eyes popped out. I wear hard contact lenses. I actually I have pretty bad vision, all the way from elementary school up through my mission. My vision was changing so rapidly, and I actually didn't have a pair of glasses that I could see well enough with. And so I work contacts which gave me my best vision. And when my contact popped out under the ground, I panicked. I was far from home, and I immediately realized, if I didn't find my contact lens, writing home to my parents, that letter would take 10 days to arrive and then they would order the lens and ship it that it would take maybe five or six weeks to get a new lens to me in the Philippines. And during that time the contrast between one lens in my eye and one lens out, I had done that before and it kind of caused headaches, it caused distortions. It was just hard to function and work because of how poor my vision was. I just panic, so I dropped down to the ground and started searching for the contact. My companion went to the store nearby and bought some matches and he would strike a match and use the light from the flame until the match burned out and then you strike another match and we would just go inch by inch over the ground looking for this contact lens. But there were puddles everywhere and the lens looked like a drop of water. I realized that I didn't have a good chance of finding the lens. So I began praying, I needed a miracle. And I prayed so earnestly, so fervently for a miracle that we'd be able to find that lens. Well, some Filipino men gathered around us asking what we are doing, and if they could help. They didn't know what a contact lens was. And so I took the other lens out of my eye to show them what it looked like. And then I put it back in my eye and we kept looking. I was grateful for their help, and I didn't want to push them away. I also recognize that they were probably likely to step on it, push it into the mud, or break it or something. I was afraid that their help would not really be helpful at all. After about 20 minutes, I gave up. I felt bad that our fellowshipper was just sitting there in the rain and realizing that the contact have probably been destroyed or permanently lost and just losing hope and faith that Heavenly Father was not going to answer this prayer. I determined right then to talk to my mission president and asked to be moved to a new mission. I was really, really discouraged and I was angry that my prayer had not been answered.   David  38:56   My miracle that I needed so badly, it didn't come. Well, my companion and I, and our fellowshipper began to walk further towards our home and we walked around a corner in this trail, and we heard some excited voices from behind us, back up the trail. My companion grabbed my arm and he explained to me, the men claimed that they had found my contact lens, and I immediately discounted it. I said, "That's impossible. They don't even know what they're looking for. And it's wet. There's just no way they found it. And we have the matches! Unless they bought new matches to keep looking. There's just no way they could have found it." We went back towards the men and they were walking towards us. And as they approached us, there were about six men, and the one in front, held out his palm, and in his palm was my contact lens. It wasn't broken. It was perfect. And I thought how perfect that Heavenly Father would answer my prayer through a real miracle. I didn't find it myself, a man that had never seen a contact lens had found my contact lens in the rain in the dark. It was a miracle and it hit me so hard, but also a series of scriptures came to my mind and I understood the verses immediately. The verses of scripture are found in Alma chapter 33. And it tells the story of Moses, when the children of Israel were being bitten by poisonous snakes by serpents. It starts out, "Behold, Christ, he who was spoken up by Moses, yea. And behold, a type was raised up in the wilderness that whosoever would look upon it might live, and many did look and live, but few understood the meaning of those things. And this because of the hardness of their hearts, therefore they perished. Now the reason they would not look because they did not believe that it would heal them, but my brethren, if ye could be healed by merely casting about your eyes, that ye might be healed, Would you not behold quickly? Or would you rather harden your hearts in unbelief and be slothful that you would not cast about your eyes that he might perish?" those verses of scripture spoke to me and I was taught by the Spirit that I had been acting in unbelief. I wasn't blind from losing the contact lens, but that I had been blind because of my self-pity, because of my doubt, I hadn't been looking to the Savior. I hadn't been loving him and loving the people in the Philippines. I had not been adequately serving him or the people in the Philippines. But through this miracle, the Savior, the Spirit also taught me how I could look and really see that I needed to exercise faith in Christ and in His Atonement, and then teach that. Teach faith in Christ, teach of His Atonement to the Filipino people and to love them and to serve them and that experience, it changed my mission. It changed me in that I became more patient with myself. I became patient with my circumstances, I exercised more faith and gratitude to my Heavenly Father for where I was and what I was called to do. And I knew that I wasn't alone. It wasn't just me in the Philippines trying to adapt, trying to be a good missionary, trying to learn a language, trying to teach. It wasn't just me, but that He really was there with me. And He was mindful of me and that He would help me in my need. It's been over 30 years since that night of the miracle, since having my contact lens restored to me and being taught by the Spirit. But that experience has not faded at all. And it has helped me weather other challenges and trials. I've been able to maintain and keep faith in Christ, knowing that He'll deliver. He has the power to deliver and He can and will deliver me.   KaRyn  42:49   That was David. I remember those gas permeable contact lenses that he's talking about. It was no joke to lose one and I can appreciate the panic that came with the realization that it was lost. I can also appreciate the new perspective that came from finding it. If the lesson from Leric was that God is more concerned with our spiritual gains than our earthly gains, well, then the lesson from David is that God can use the moments when we do gain or regain something in the physical sphere, like a contact lens, to teach us a spiritual principle. If we have eyes to see it. It amazes me always that we will most likely each have a story of losing or finding something in this life. I mean, because after all, we live in a fallen world. And despite the universality of that experience, the lessons that we're going to take away will be completely tailored to our own needs and our own spiritual growth. Take me for example, after all those losses and the rise of my callous attitude, God decided to teach me something precious about hope through losing something. I was at my parents house in South Carolina about a year ago during an impromptu family reunion. I had digitized all of our family VHS tapes for my parents' anniversary seven years ago, and I was planning to surprise them. And then because this is what I do, I promptly lost both the box of VHS tapes and the hard drive that had the newly digitized footage on it. But by some miracle just before this trip, I relocated that hard drive and my mom and I spent quite a bit of time uploading them to one, and then two, and then three different places so that we would have every kind of backup since the VHS tapes were long gone. In the process of all of that uploading, we found ourselves reviewing hours and hours of early 90s camcorder footage. The kind that makes your head spin and its lack of storyline or even clear focus. We watched my baby brothers elementary school Halloween parade for 45 minutes only to see him skip past the camera in 30 seconds near the end. We inexplicably watch 20 minutes of children with mullets, that was us, getting in and out of a swimming pool at dusk. We endured no less than five instances of one of my teenage brothers taping over something semi-important to show himself in his wide-pants-wearing friends skateboarding. And as we were watching what seemed like the third hour of unintelligible Christmas morning footage, I saw my 14-year-old self with a very, very high bangs. Open a jewelry box and held up a golden heart necklace to the camera and say thanks only to forget about it moments later in favor of the box CD set of the International cast of Les Miserables. My mom stopped the computer and said, "Oh my goodness." And then she disappeared without another word. She came back a minute later, dangling a golden heart necklace from her hand. It was the necklace from that Christmas, when I was 14 years old. Fully intact, still shining, still beautiful. I don't even remember losing the necklace. To be honest. I don't remember getting the necklace. I assumed that all my childhood treasures had gone the way of everything else in my life: lost into the ethers. But here was my mom holding that necklace and saying, "I've been wondering where this came from for 20 years. It's been in my jewelry box forever." And then we marveled at how it must have been more than the costume jewelry we both assumed it was back then because it hadn't tarnished or rusted or even become dull. My mom handed it to me and said, "This is yours." Clearly, I undervalued that necklace. From the moment I opened it. That was apparent from the video proof of my half-hearted teenage, "thanks." But now, years later, as I held it again, I felt the weight of that gold heart. I loved it and treasured it immediately when my mom showed it to me in 2019. Partly because it's now tied to her since living in her jewelry box for 20 years, and partly because it's held up, and partly because it represents everything. Everything that we think we've lost through our carelessness, our youthful error, our downright sin. Now, every time I put it on, I'm reminded that someone is holding on to the things that we've discarded, erroneously, or carelessly. Whatever we think we've lost, whether that thing is a contact lens, or a million dollars, or something as complex and painful as our faith in ourselves, or maybe even our faith in God. Whatever we think we've lost is not lost to Him. He is holding on to our hearts keeping them safe and untarnished. And God knows exactly when we'll be ready to recognize their true value so that we can find them again.   That's it for this episode of This Is The Gospel thank you to Leric, Mark, and David for sharing their stories and their faith with us. We'll have links to pictures from this week's stories including the picture of the necklace, and maybe even Bonus a picture of me and my high bangs as a 14-year-old, as well as the transcript of this episode in our show notes. So go to https://www.ldsliving.com/pages/this-is-the-gospel and find Episode 46. Special thanks to my mom for being the keeper of lost things in our family. All of our stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a story to share about living the Gospel, please call our pitch line. That's how we found Mark's story and David's story and leave us a pitch. It'd be great if it included a beginning, a middle and an end so that we can see your whole story in a quick moment. We really do love to hear how the gospel has blessed your life. Call 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. If you've loved having these true stories from real people in your life, please leave us a review on iTunes and be sure to tell all your friends and social networks how This Is The Gospel has helped you. We read every review and really we do truly appreciate your willingness to share the good stuff. This episode was produced by me KaRyn Lay with additional story producing and editing by Katie Lambert, Jasmine Mullen and Ashley Porter. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix at Six studios, our executive producer is  Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and the other LDS Living podcast at https://www.ldsliving.com/pages/podcasts Have a great week.  

Stories in this episode: Jim, a devout Baptist, sends five of his seven children on Latter-day Saint missions despite his misgivings about what they will teach and finds himself “tapped on the shoulder” by God; Though she grew up a member of the Church, Brooke doesn’t really search out her own testimony until devastating loss puts her faith, or lack thereof, at the forefront of her life; Missionaries go the literal extra mile to find Martin when he moves back to Norway after a visit to temple square; Dumdi finds the strength to remain faithful after baptism despite being alone in her efforts; When Monique’s family moves to a predominantly Latter-day Saint community, she vows to steer clear of “The Mormons” but finds herself drawn to the doctrine despite negative experiences. SHOWNOTES: This episode is sponsored by Gospel Day by Day Check out videos of Jim, Brooke, Martin, Dumdi, and Monique, at ldsliving.com/thisisthegospel. TRANSCRIPT: KaRyn Lay  0:04   Welcome to "This Is the Gospel," an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay.  If you love to learn about bugs, then you enjoy entomology. But if you love to learn about the origin of words, well then you have a thing for etymology, which is what I have, a thing for etymology. For a really long time, I would get those two "ologies" confused, even though I am most definitely not a fan of things with lots of legs. What I am a fan of is where a word comes from and how it evolved into its current meaning. Take the etymology of the word "convert," for example. When the word is used as a noun, the online Macmillan dictionary defines it as someone who has changed their beliefs in an important way, and I really like that definition. But the actual origins of the word from the Latin add an even deeper perspective. It comes from a mix of "com" meaning together or with, and "vertere" meaning to turn or bend. And I have no idea if I said for "vertere" right, it just sounds kind of Latin in my mind. Well, when I think of the word "convert" with that underlying Latin root, I can practically feel the word. Because with that understanding, when I call myself a convert to Christianity, I'm acknowledging that I am someone who has turned together and bent toward the gospel of Jesus Christ. The word conversion, which is really closely associated with "convert" from the Latin, started to have a religious connotation in the 14th century. It's a turning round, a revolving, an alteration or a change. If I was putting together a video montage reel of the best conversions, I would illustrate that woman at the well turning to face the Savior. And Saul turning towards the angel and his new name. And Alma, and King Lamoni, and everyone who has ever converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ turning, turning, turning their bodies and their hearts to the Savior. Well, in today's episode, we have five little stories of five big turns. Moments when something shifted and led the storytellers towards God and towards Jesus Christ.  Our first story comes from Jim who found that his conversion to Christ as a member of the Baptist faith was an important step in setting the stage for another revolution of his faith. Here's Jim.   Jim  2:30   I grew up as a Baptist. There were very few Baptists in Clearfield, Utah. My parents taught me about Jesus Christ and I went to church every Sunday. I grew up, actually, with kind of an anti-Mormon tilt. The Southern Baptists love the LDS people, but they felt and believed that they were not writing their doctrine and they, in fact, were lost. They were active in trying to save the LDS people get the LDS people to realize they were wrong.  As I met Linda, my wife Linda, she was LDS. Any time we talked about church, it was just me trying to convert Linda or Linda trying to convert me. We learned that that didn't work. We would take the children to church, Linda would take some time and I would take my time. They enjoyed both churches. Ultimately, the challenge left me feeling like it's better to just let them go to the Mormon church. They came time for the kids to be baptized, I was was reluctant to that, feeling as I did about the church. And consequently, when it came time for them to be baptized, the challenge there and the heartache for me was that I was relinquishing my responsibility to teach my kids, I guess, the truth—the truth as I saw it and knew it. It was a struggle, but I let the kids be baptized.  The hard part really for me was when my kids came and wanted to go on a mission. Again, feeling as I did, it was hard to know that they were going to go teach something that I didn't believe. I had taught them and told them that they were no longer responsible to their father, their earthly father. They were more responsible to their Heavenly Father and if that's what He wanted them to do that they needed to go do it and do the best job they could. Through the years with the Lord working with me and tapping me on the chest, I was feeling that, and I knew the Lord had worked with me before like that. That I had no doubt in my mind He was wanting me to do something and telling me something. So when two granddaughters were to be baptized, and one granddaughter to be blessed, that was really emotional for me. That Sunday, a lady stood to give her testimony. She testified of Joseph Smith, the truth of the gospel and Joseph Smith doing that. It was then, that Sunday that my savior told me, "You need to look at the Church with thoughts other than trying to disprove it."  So we went home, I thought how am I going to tell Linda and my family? They obviously had been praying for this for a long time. But I knew I needed to tell her and I couldn't figure out how and I just thought, "Well everybody's together, just tell them." As I call it, there was shock and awe. Everyone was happy, some were crying to know that it might take place. I know some doubted it—that it never would, even then.  I told them that I didn't need to meet with any Missionaries of the church because I had a whole house full of them. Five of my seven children were returned missionaries and all three of my sons-in-law. I asked them if they would read with me and pray with me and help me answer questions that I had. And we did. We met often and prayed every day. As I prayed about it, every time I got a distinct feeling that the Lord wanted me to continue to read and look. Finally, my Heavenly Father showed me that I didn't have to leave the truth that I knew and to turn my back on Him, but He had more truths for me. And through that, I made the decision to be baptized. I was able to tell my bride of 41 years that I was going to be baptized.  A little over a year later, I was able to go to the temple and be sealed to my wife and seven temple-worthy, wonderful children. The most remarkable thing about it was to realize the truth of the eternal family. When we lost a son a few years ago, to know that we would be with him again, that it was just for a short time that he would be with us and we would all be together as an eternal family. To endure something like that without that knowledge would be so difficult. And I testify, the blessings that come through the plan of salvation and knowing that again one day I will see and be with my son. I testify that that is the greatest, the most wonderful thing that there is.   KaRyn Lay  9:19   That was Jim. Jim and his wife, Linda have been friends of LDS Living for a couple of years now when we first filmed them for our love lessons video series back in 2017. And we've been consistently in awe of Jim's willingness to share his story if it'll help others find the peace that the restored gospel has given him. Though we didn't get to hear from Linda in this particular version of Jim's story, I can attest that her resolve to maintain and grow her own faith, as Jim maintained and grew his faith in Christ, was integral to his eventual recognition of the truths of the restored gospel. I hold on to their powerful reminder that timing, plus love, plus consistency, plus allowing for agency, plus Faith, plus a commitment to peace can do way more than pushing and fighting ever could. Those things combined allow us to get out of the way and let God do the work that He is already doing with His children. Our next story comes from Brooke. Brooke's true and lasting conversion happened when she was already a member of the church. Just a quick note for anyone who might be sensitive, Brooke's story discusses infant loss. Here's Brooke.   Brooke  10:27   After out daughter Kennedy passed away, I naturally had questions. Where do we go after this? What is life? And it just kind of led into this prayer. And in that prayer, I wasn't expecting some miraculous thing, but I got something miraculous.  So I was raised in the church. I was baptized at eight years old. I was in young women's, and then I got married at 18. I think once I became an adult, I really started to question what I believed. I got to a point in my life where I realized that I had been riding on my parents' testimonies more than my own. So for seven years, I put my faith on the shelf and I didn't touch it. I didn't think about it, I did everything that I was told not to do. In that, there was good things I experienced, there were really rough, hard things I experienced. But I grew from all those experiences.  I was 37, almost 38 weeks pregnant when our daughter Kennedy passed away. Her heart just stopped and there was no reason why she had passed away. It was heart wrenching for a family. We had tried to have children for three years. We have an 11-year-old son who is amazing and one of my favorite people on this planet, but we wanted more kids and it took us a really long time. And then Kennedy passed away. And it broke me. In that brokenness, I was able to be vulnerable enough to want answers for myself, not for anyone else. One day, I was sitting at my kitchen table, and I decided to pray. And the idea of praying was really uncomfortable. Because I felt so far away from Heavenly Father. I had no idea what really that even meant to me at that time. I gave one of the clumsiest prayers I've ever heard in my life. The questions—the specific question I had was, "Why did Kennedy die?" I wasn't really sure I was going to get an answer. But as I sat there, I felt so much comfort, more comfort than I've ever felt in my whole life. And I felt my daughter around me, and I felt our Savior. And I felt what it meant to have unconditional love around you. Something struck me really, really hard and that was Kennedy's sacrifice to earthly life so that my family could come back to the gospel. And that she could be my beacon and my light.  After that, incredibly clumsy prayer, I opened up a Book of Mormon. The last time I had opened the Book of Mormon was probably in seminary and I probably wasn't paying attention. Once I opened up the Book of Mormon for myself and not for anyone else, I just kept reading. And the more I kept reading, the more relevant it was in my life, which was shocking because it always felt so old and ancient to me. But I was reading things and I felt like they understood what I was going through. And it wasn't until I was about halfway through, that I really started to get this desire to not just attend church, but to really dive all the way in.  So I started getting the discussions again. My son also was getting discussions with me. Then I was prepped to go through the temple. And at this time, I had gotten pregnant again with another little girl and we found out that she was going to pass away also. So in March of 2016, our daughter, Holland, lived for one hour and then passed away. And it was wasn't, it shouldn't have been able to happen, I shouldn't have been able to survive both of these horrific tragedies. And I know for a fact it was from that clumsy prayer at that kitchen table, was because I was able to get through all of this. Because that was the starting point for my life.  You know, with loss comes grief, and can come depression. And I think sometimes you get lost in that. And knowing that I have a hope now that is a living, breathing hope, and His name is Jesus Christ, has laid a foundation in my life. That I now know that I can go through really hard trials and I can go through really hard moments and I don't have to wait for Him, because he's there. I don't have to be perfect, because He's been there the entire time and He comes to my level. The difference in my life now is that fear doesn't own me anymore. Death doesn't really scare me, because I've seen beautiful things happen with death. I used to hear people say that, you know, death isn't the end. I didn't believe them. But I now know it's so much more than that. And I look forward to the day that I can hold both of my girls again. And I look forward to this journey, though. I look forward to now, I look forward to today because there's so much hope in today. And there's so much hope in this life. And I know that through my daughters, I've been able to learn that.   KaRyn Lay  16:45   That was Brooke. Brooke first shared this story as part of our "This Is the Gospel" video series. Much like our pitch line, we don't always know the people who voluntarily share their stories for videos like this, so we hadn't met Brooke until she burst into the studio with all the energy of a woman twice her size. And I have to say that Brooke's love for the Savior and His plan of happiness radiates from her. It is absolutely a gift to witness someone who's experienced such loss, take such comfort in the perspective that the Savior offers.  Our next two stories are short and sweet. Both Martin and Dumdi came to the United States from other countries. And while their circumstances were very different in coming here, they both found the restored gospel of Jesus Christ on their journey. First, we'll hear from Martin and then from Dumdi.   Martin  17:33   I'm from Norway, and where I grew up, there wasn't really much talk about God or religion or anything like that. So when I moved to Utah as an exchange student at the age of 17, the concepts of faith and church really foreign to me. Luckily, later that year I made some really good friends that took me to church and they taught me about faith. And everything I learned there really resonated with me. And I learned about things that I had never even thought about before. It was just a really wonderful experience right there. But when I visited temple square that summer, the sister missionaries there did what I assume they always do and ask the visitors if they would like missionaries to visit their home. And because of what I had learned, I said, "Yes, please." And I was really excited about seeing them. But unfortunately, my family and I, we were planning on taking a three-week vacation in the states before returning home. So the missionaries in Norway, they probably tried to call me several times to try to get a hold of me without any luck. So when I got home, I never heard from them. Until one day, a senior couple finally called one last time trying to get ahold of this reference. I answered the phone and they asked me if I wanted the missionaries to stop by and I said, "Sure, send them over!" However, where I live, there were no missionaries. The missionaries had to travel an hour and a half by plane to be able to teach me, but they did. And we sat there and we talked about the Plan of Salvation, the Gospel, the restoration, and everything just felt so good. And I really liked what I learned and the thoughts about baptism started crossing my mind. But, growing up in this environment where I really didn't know anyone that even was Christian, it was really hard to try to stand out that much. I was really worried about what my family and friends would say. So with all those worries and all those doubts in my mind, one night I knelt down to pray, and prayed about what the missionaries had taught me, and prayed about the Book of Mormon, and prayed about the church. And I was filled with such an immense happiness, something I had never felt before. And knew that this happiness did not come from this world, it came from God. And I knew that I needed to be baptized regardless of what would happen. So that is what I did. I got baptized on November 14, 2010, and none of my worries came true. I just received blessings and happiness from there now. And often I think back about what would have happened if my friends hadn't taken me to church if the sister missionaries hadn't asked for my name and address. If the missionaries in Norway hadn't tried so hard to contact me. And especially if the Norwegian members hadn't embraced me the way I did. And I consider myself so blessed to have experienced that, and I know because of my experiences that there are no coincidences in God's plan. That He loves every one of his children so so much. And He works so hard so that every single one of us will be able to find our path home to Him.   Dumdi  20:56   I was 12-years-old when I joined the church. My family had been in the states for about three years, we came over to the states as war refugees from Nigeria. And it was just, you know, a typical day in Dallas, it was warm and sunny. And we had two, sorry, but these two scrawny white dudes—because like, we live in like a very black neighborhood anyway. And I was really surprised my dad let them in, but he did. And I think that's probably the best thing my dad has done for me, was letting those missionaries in. They taught us and they challenged us to read, you know, they gave us certain verses in the Book of Mormon to read, and I think I was the only one that read them. But I'm always up for a good challenge. So I decided to go ahead and read them and then pray. And it was actually the first time I'd ever addressed Heavenly Father the way that I did when I knelt down to pray about what these missionaries had been teaching us. Because personally for me, just learning that God was my Heavenly Father changed everything. And also made sense, you know that we would have prophets now, just like in the biblical times because I, you know, had been taught about the Bible. I accepted the invitation to be baptized along with my parents and one of my sisters. And I just remember when they lifted me out of the water, they had to baptize me again, because I had this like long hair, kind of like right now, and it didn't all go in. I just remember getting lifted out of the water and just feeling this warmth and it just like consumed my whole body. And I started crying because I had felt this peace that I hadn't felt in a very long time. And I just knew that God was proud of me, that He was proud of the decision I'd made. And I try to remember that when it does start to feel hard. And now I'm the only active member, and it's okay because I love my family. But there are definitely, you know, hard things about being the only active convert in your family. But I have seen God's hands in my life every day, whenever I decided to notice them. But as I pray an I read my scriptures, for me, it's about my relationship with Heavenly Father, and about Jesus Christ. And that's why I stayed. That's why I chose to be baptized. And that's why I'm still here.   KaRyn Lay  23:37   That was Martin and Dumdi. Even though their stories of conversion are different from one another, I love these snapshots of finding faith for the same reason. As a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it can really be easy for me to forget that there are still people who want and need the truths of the restored gospel. I know how that sounds, but hear me out. I don't know what it's like for you, but in this brave new A world of constant communication and connection, I have literally watched so many of the people I love and care about, step away from the church or out of the church for various reasons and with varying permanency. While I honor that agency and seek to always put compassion first, I, for one, feel the loss of those church associations pretty acutely sometimes. When I'm overwhelmed by that grief, I simply lose sight of the fact that faith is actually a living and breathing thing. In one breath, we rally around those who are experiencing a transition in their faith, maybe towards doubt or disbelief for a time. And in that same breath, we make space for the truth that there are still those who long to turn with us, to come closer, to understand new truths or remember old ones. There are still people searching, there are still people longing. And we must still speak of Christ with all the breath in our body so that anyone who knows us can know Him, wherever they are in their path. Martin's friends and Dumdi's missionaries lived that way. And I'm trying. I'm really, really trying.  Our final story of turning hearts comes from Monique who had absolutely no intention of letting the gospel into her world. Here's Monique.   Monique  25:21   It didn't take us long to figure out that the town was different. And the reason that it was different was because they were all the same religion, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And we just didn't, we didn't like them, and they didn't particularly like us. And I certainly, as a 10-year-old, didn't want anything to do with the religion. So it was my first week of school, I was at recess on the monkey bars with some friends when a little girl asked me, "Do you feel bad that you live in a bad family?" And I didn't know how to answer that question. I didn't know what she meant. But the reason she asked that was because she saw my dad that day. He's a large man, lots of tattoos. And to that little girl, that was what that meant, was that we were from a bad family.  Growing up, I had friends that would say, I'm not allowed to hang out with you anymore. And, you know, I was a really good kid but it was just because they found out that I wasn't a member of their church. And my siblings are treated the same way, that they are just not quite good enough because they don't go to church. It was hard for me as a little girl, I had a lot of anger and resentment built up, just naturally because of the course that my life had taken and some of the things that I had gone through. I didn't know if I believed in God, it was almost easier to think that He wasn't real because if Ge was, then I was being punished for something, or He didn't love me. It was really hard for me for a long time to understand why my family wasn't good enough to be loved by God.  So fast forward to my junior year and one of the families that I had grown close to through baseball, one of their little boys passed away. He was 10 at the time, and we all rallied together to help this family. And they remember on social media, it was posted that we were going to fast and pray for this family the day of the funeral. I knew enough, I had been around long enough to know what fasting was and to know what prayer was. And I decided that that was something I wanted to join in on. So I fasted that day of his funeral, and I said my first ever personal prayer, and I just wanted the family to be okay. And I wanted understanding. We all went to the funeral. And the dad, who I've known for a really long time, bore testimony of Jesus Christ, of a Savior who made it possible for him to see his son again. And it wasn't a question to him, he was going to see his son again.  Six or seven months later, I had a friend who was serving as mission Arizona, and he had access to Facebook. And he messaged me one day and basically said, "What do you believe?" And my initial reaction was, "What do you want?" But I ended up talking to him and his companions through Facebook Messenger for six or seven months. And just taking the discussions and learning about what Jesus Christ taught. There were so many times where I would pull up my phone, I'd messaged my friend and I tell him, "I can't do this, so and so offended me at school today. They said this, they said that this is what you believe, and I don't want anything to do with it."  He'd say, "Monique, listen. This is what Jesus Christ taught. And this is what we believe. And we are all surrounded by imperfect people, but there's a difference between the people and Christ and what He taught." And it was so important for me to have those experiences where I was like, okay, the doctrine and okay the people and to be able to separate those two for me personally.  So I decided to meet with the missionaries in town, the elders, and they extended the invitation to be baptized. And it was the easiest "Yes" I've ever said. I don't think I fully understood, obviously, I didn't fully understand everything. And I didn't fully understand what I was getting myself into. But I knew it was what I wanted. It was extremely hard on my family, they all love me and were extremely supportive. But I remember my mom crying and saying, "So you don't want me to be a part of your forever? You don't want us to be a part of your forever?" Because that was the understanding that we had, that as a whole we didn't get what everyone else was getting because we weren't members of this church. When she asked me that I was like, "No, that's not what I believe. Like, I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't think we had a chance of being together forever." A year after I got baptized, I went on a mission to Texas. It was absolutely the best experience I've ever had. I got home from my mission. And my family was a lot more vocal about their feelings and about how they had been treated. And I guess their feelings about what I was a part of. I have found a lot, so much happiness and hope and peace in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And I'm confident and I know who I am, Heavenly Father's daughter. But it's still so so hard because the ones I love the most don't understand what I'm doing or why I believe what I believe because they're still caught up on a lot of people's stuff. But I trust that truth makes sense. And that phrase has stuck with me. And I go back to it anytime I question anything. And when I'm learning stuff, it's, "Okay, this makes sense." And that doesn't mean that questions aren't going to come up but the answers make sense. And so when my mom asks me, "You don't want me? You don't want us in your forever," that doesn't make sense to me. And so like learning about the doctrine and learning that Christ teaches forever, that makes sense. And that's what propels me forward because I know that we can be together forever. My family and I don't see eye to eye on religion stuff now, and I don't know if we ever will. But I know that Heavenly Father loves us all the same, that we are all His children, and I know how much He loves them. My hope is that I can be a better example, that we all can be better examples for each other. Christ's love is what this gospel really is.   KaRyn Lay  32:21   That was Monique. I'm truly grateful for her willingness to share some of the pain that accompanied her conversion. The turning of our hearts to Christ is a joyful thing. But that doesn't mean that it comes without complexity or nuance. It's an opportunity, a true opportunity for us to be able to hear the reality of life for adult converts beyond that moment in the baptismal font that often carries this sort of mystical quality in the fabric of our cultural storytelling. Stories like Monique's should change us as we minister to the newly converted. How would our succoring and mentoring and loving be a little different if we are more attuned to the possibility that there is most likely a little bit of loss mingled with the newfound joy of a recent convert.  As we've assembled these stories this week, I've been pondering the phenomenon of this thing that we call "conversion stories." We know that our individual conversion is hardly a one-time deal. Conversion, the act of turning to Christ, bending with Christ, is meant to be a lifelong pursuit really, with as many twists and revolutions of our faith as there are days in the year. So what good does sharing the moment of conversion do in our efforts to understand and be reconciled to the long game of discipleship? Well, I haven't fully figured it all out. But this Sunday, I heard something that helped me to understand it a little bit more.  My rescue friend Steve, whom you'll remember from our "To the Rescue" episode, spoke this past Sunday in sacrament meeting. And he reminded me that when emergencies come, and our bodies are flooded with the desire to fight or take flight, we don't recall the thing that we just learned. In those moments, our brains are able to access only what Steve calls our "lowest level of common and consistent training." He then suggested that the same is true of our ability to manage our moments of spiritual duress. The question then becomes not what we'll do when our commitment to Christ is challenged, but rather, what have we already done to secure the lowest levels of our common and consistent spiritual training, so that we don't even have to think about what we're going to do? Well, I submit that we have told our stories. We've shared them, we've written them down, we've committed them to our collective memories. The stories of our moments of conversion, the stories of others moments of conversion, well those become our common and consistent training that we can recall, in duress. This might feel like a stretch, but I promise it isn't. Think about how many times you've used the story of King Lamoni's moment of conversion, or Paul, or any of the other converts in the scriptures to help shore up your spiritual life. We share our conversion stories because then they become part of the community knowledge, they become common among us. And the more we share, the more consistent that information is to our brains in the moments when our discipleship is challenged. We may still have the long road of living a life of conversion ahead, but in that one testing moment, we'll recall a time when we did know. When we felt the peace of the gospel, when our hearts were turned, and we were converted. So if you have a conversion moment, or if you're working towards one—hopefully you'll get there soon—turn it into a story and tell it. It may well be the thing that you or someone you love recalls, and then clings to in the moment of their spiritual duress. That's it for this episode of "This Is the Gospel." Thank you to Jim, Brooke, Dumdi, Martin, and Monique for sharing their moment of their conversion and their faith with us. We'll have links to the videos from our "This Is the Gospel" YouTube series that features the storytellers in our show notes for this episode at LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel. We'll also have a transcript there if you'd like to read these stories. All of the stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a story to share, and I know you do, about living the Gospel, help contribute to our lowest level of common and consistent spiritual training by sharing your story. Call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. We often find a lot of our stories from that pitch line and we love to hear how the gospel is blessing your life. Call 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. If you've loved hearing these true stories from real people, please leave us a review on iTunes and tell all your friends and social networks how "This Is the Gospel" has helped you. We read every review and I really appreciate your willingness to share the good stuff.  This episode was produced by me, KaRyn Lay, with additional story producing and editing by Katie Lambert, Jasmine Mullen, Hayden Paul and Daniel Garcia. It was mixed, scored, and mastered by Mix at Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. If you want to hear more episodes of the podcast or any of the LDS Living podcasts, we have the "Sunday on Monday" and "All In" podcasts as well, please go to LDSliving.com/podcasts.

If you're looking for an engaging and fun way to supplement your Come, Follow Me study of the Book of Mormon this year, the team at THIS IS THE GOSPEL has been working hard to help bring you The Sunday on Monday Study Group  - a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original weekly podcast with host Tammy Uzelac Hall and friends that digs into the scriptures with real stories, new insights, and a whole lot of humor.  In this bonus episode, we share Episode 2 of the Sunday on Monday Study Group podcast covering 1 Nephi 1-7. If you love it and want more, head on over to ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday to find extensive show notes, transcripts and links to bookshelf plus where the full series lives and then come back in two weeks for brand new episodes of THIS IS THE GOSPEL. 

Stories in this episode: Ken’s professional future is uncertain until a unique series of dreams leads him down the right path; A challenging move to Fiji and a brush with dengue fever leave Craig and his young family desperate for a message from Heaven;. After the death of her colleague’s son, Emily receives a unique message of hope for her grieving coworker. This Episode of This Is The Gospel is sponsored by LIGHT THE WORLD. Join us as we #LightTheWorld this Christmas and sign up to get daily service prompts through text message or email. Text the word “LIGHT” to the number: 71234 or visit LighttheWorld.org. That's also where you'll find "The Christ Child", a brand new short film that New Testament scholars are calling the most historically accurate depiction of the Nativity ever filmed.  SHOW NOTES To see pictures, and find links to things mentioned in this episode, go here. To find out more about the themes we're developing for upcoming episodes, follow us @thisisthegospel_podcast on Instagram and Facebook :) TRANSCRIPT KaRyn Lay  0:05   Welcome to "This Is the Gospel," an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay and if you can't tell, I have a cold. But don't worry, you can catch it through the podcast so I think we're safe. And I hope you can still understand me. I'm not exactly sure where I got the dream book, probably in the discount section of Barnes and Noble where I got almost all of the books that were not textbooks in college. Or maybe it was a gift. But wherever it came from, it was a hit at parties. Someone would just mention the word dream in casual conversation and I'd immediately run to the shelves and come back armed with this book that was somewhere between a dictionary and a comic book. I think it was even called "The Dictionary of Dreams." So anyway, I'd have the person tell me all the specifics of their dream, every little detail, and then I would look up every symbol so that we could try to interpret the dream together. Did you dream your teeth were falling out? Well, according to the book on page 72, you are feeling insecure about some aspect of your life. There was a chicken in your dream? Page 193 says that something new and exciting is coming around the corner. Abraham Lincoln showed up fighting vampires in your last dream? You have a strong and honest character, or you don't and you need to clean something up. Like I said, hours and hours of party fun. Now I know what you're thinking, "Wow, I really want to come to one of KaRyn's riveting parties." But maybe you're thinking, "That's a load of psychobabble," as my dad would call it. And I have to agree on some level. As hokey as all of this dream stuff might sound, there is definitely precedent for dreams and their interpretation making an appearance as an important tool for revelation of truth. Lehi's dream ring any bells? Well, today we've got three stories about the way God sometimes uses our dreams to talk with us as we navigate our way through discipleship.    Our first story comes from Ken, whose experience with two revelatory dreams in his life helped to guide him in his career in two very different directions. Here's Ken.   Ken Alford  2:13   In the fall of 1978, I was wearing an ROTC uniform to the first day of class at Brigham Young University. It was a political science class, I still remember the classroom. And just as the class was ready to begin, we had no professor in the room. And the professor came running into class just seconds before the class began, had a big stack of books, dropped it on the desk, and we all expected he was going to begin class. Instead, he looked around the room, he zeroed in on my army cadet uniform and ran up to my desk and said, "It's just so good to see a uniform."  And so I said, "Well, why would you say that?"  And he said, "Well, I just retired, after 30 years, serving the country in the United States Army and now I'm a professor here at BYU."  And so I asked what was probably the dumbest question I could have asked. I said, "You can do that?" Well, obviously you could do that because he had done it. But he was very patient. He said, "Yes, I, I just retired just a week or two ago. And now I'm teaching here." And in the back of my head, I could hear the spirit say, "If you do it right, you can do this too." And that day in 1978, the seed was planted to come back and be a faculty member at Brigham Young University. So after that experience in that classroom, I finished my senior year, along the way got engaged to the cutest girl at the school, and she became my wife. That actually was quite a week. On Thursday, graduation week, I was commissioned in the army by my father. The following day, I graduated from Brigham Young University. Then five days later, I married my sweetheart over the altar in the Salt Lake temple. And then the following day, we left for Fort Harrison in Indianapolis and that began kind of a whirlwind experience in the army.  I had a very unusual military career. I never served in a division. I had the opportunity in my career to do lots of educational things. First, the army sent me for a master's degree. And then I taught computer science at West Point for four years. And then I had the opportunity after working in the Pentagon, to reapply to West Point and I was selected again, this time for a Ph.D. in computer science. And then I went back to West Point for four years. But while I was doing my Ph.D. program, I was kind of, quite frankly, a fish out of water because I had a political science background as an undergraduate. I had a Master's at that point, but I hadn't done anything really advanced in computer science. My Ph.D. dissertation was on large scale databases, and they had given me three years to finish what's—the average in our program was four and a half to five years—and they gave me the loving advice "Be dead or be done." And I decided I would rather be done than be dead so I was going to finish in three years. But what that meant was that you had to do your dissertation research in a very compressed manner. And at that time, large-scale database search engines, Google was brand new, they were on the cusp of what was happening and we were all trying to figure this out together. And so I reached a point in my research where I was kind of stuck. Because in the sciences and computer science included, you have to advance the field in order to get your Ph.D. You just can't report what others have done. I went up to talk to research lab personnel and other Ph.D.'s and they said, "Yeah, you're kind of stuck." And what happened was in December in January of 1999, and then into the winter of 2000, over a period of about three weeks, I had the most amazing experience. I would dream—it wasn't every night but it was most nights—I would dream the next portion of my research and my dissertation. And I would wake up in the morning and it had been handed to me. And I would get up and write it down and it would work!  One of the problems that I had was trying to figure out how to load quickly such large amounts of data. And the answer just came in a dream and I did it and it worked and it ran in just a fraction of the time of what I'd been doing. And it's cut weeks off my research, and it came from a dream. Other times, I would wake up and I knew exactly what to write, I knew exactly how to approach the problem. And it was just day after day after day, and it got to the point where it was exciting to go to bed because I couldn't wait to see what the next part of my dissertation was going to be. And then, as soon as I reached the point where I was kind of over the hurdle and now just needed to write it up, it stopped. It just stopped. It was just—I don't know what else call it—it was just a tender mercy. But it came at the exact right time, in the exact right amount. If I'd gotten the whole thing in one night, I would have been frustrated, I couldn't have remembered. But it became in just these doses that were perfect to help me finish my Ph.D. And I finished on time and went to West Point and taught as a Ph.D. professor. And I was not dead. The experience I had over that series of weeks, and from my perspective, it was just truly miraculous, it was just a wonderful, wonderful time. And exciting to see what was coming next because I was just sometimes as surprised as anyone else. And I remember my advisory Professor kept saying, "Where'd you get this from?" And I really didn't know how to answer the question. I couldn't say, "Well, I dreamed it last night." But it was one more confirmation kind of along the way that the thought I'd had, the impression I'd received in 1978, that If I do it right, I can return to BYU one day, was just kind of confirmed along the way.  So I was able to finish my Ph.D. on time. And really, quite honestly against all odds as my dissertation chair kept telling me, and then we went to West Point just a few weeks later and began four wonderful years there. Fast forward, in 2006, I went into the kitchen in our home in Virginia, and there was a Michael Buble, a song called "Home." And my wife and I started dancing in the kitchen. And I just turned to her at the end of that song after one of the lines and I said, "It's time." And she said, "It's time." It's time for us to start thinking about what's next. And so that's when we turned and began looking at applying to BYU to see if what had happened in 1978 we could bring it to fruition. Throughout my career, especially in Virginia, Brigham Young University used to send out to recruiters and they would talk about what you have to have to even apply to teach at BYU. And so I went to several of those meetings before I had my masters or before I had my Ph.D., and learned what the requirements were. And so I just kind of made sure I did all of those. I don't know if the folks in the church history and doctrine department had planned on having that requirement filled with a computer science degree who had published on databases and taught at the Military Academy, but it met the requirements of the law. 30 years as a full military career, I was approaching the 30-year mark. And it's a fairly traumatic thing when it's time to leave that military environment. It's similar, in many ways, to the kind of environment that the church provides, people just as wonderful I will say. There was never an opportunity in my entire career where the military ever tried to place me in a position where I had to consider whether or not I would compromise any of our values, or break the word of wisdom or anything else connected with the church. I worked with just a wonderful group of people.  But in the back of my mind, I wanted to pursue the opportunity with Brigham Young University. And so I had applied to teach religion. I had been teaching institute and seminary as a volunteer for over 20 years and wanted to do something different in retirement other than leadership or computer science. And what had happened is I was kind of in a box that I really didn't see the way out of because of timing. Brigham Young University is a wonderful place and has wonderful things. But one of the things it does very slowly is hiring. I've heard them described as glacial. So what was happening is I would not hear from Brigham Young University whether or not I had been hired until the window would have closed for me to submit my retirement papers in time to begin the fall semester at Brigham Young University should I actually be hired. We were trying to decide what to do. It was a matter of our daily prayer, my sweetheart and I were asking the Lord, you know, what's the way forward? What's the way out of this? So I went to bed, and in the dreams of the night, and it's just as vivid today as when I had the dream—the details of this dream are just so vivid. I found myself viewing a meeting. It was in a small office, there were several individuals seated around a small little table and they were in the process I could see of counting votes. And so I listened in, I recognized two of the people in the room and knew exactly who they were. And they were counting votes and discussing a vote that had just taken place among the faculty. And I soon, very quickly realized that I was watching the hiring meeting where the faculty had voted on whether or not would be selected as the next faculty member. And the votes were tallied. And at the end of the meeting, the department chair said, "Well, then it's agreed. We will send forward Ken Alford's name to fill this position that we're looking for on the faculty." And they went around the room and everyone concurred with that decision. And then the meeting ended.  When I woke up, I recognized that that dream was just different. There was just a spiritual nature about it. And I was just absolutely comfortable that the time was now that I was to go ahead and "drop papers" as the army slang is, that I was to drop my retirement papers and to move forward in faith. Even though I hadn't heard from Brigham Young University yet that I was hired, I had absolutely no fear at all whatsoever. I talked with my wife, I said, here's what happened. She felt very good about it as well. And she said, "Are we going to do it?" I said, "We're going to do it." And about two days later, I turned in my papers and then several weeks later, it was actually about two months later, I got the call from the department chair. He confirmed what I had seen in the dream and I was hired to be a professor in church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University, in many ways, against all odds.  From the time we arrived and kind of signed in to the university, it's just felt like home. That was just so wonderful. And then after I arrived at Brigham Young University, several years later, someone just mentioned, just off the cuff, "Oh well I was on the hiring committee at the time you were hired." And it was one of the individuals that I had recognized in my dream. The other individual, I recognized, the department chair at the time, and when I saw the room where the meeting was held, I recognized the room from my dream. I recognize that these revelatory dreams that I'd been blessed with—and they're really a rare event. I'm in my mid-60s and it's happened a couple of times in my total life. But I recognize, I just see them as just tender mercies, just kindness that they came in times when I'd reached a point where I needed outside help. I needed information I didn't have or I needed an understanding that I didn't have. It's just so wonderful and reassuring to know that Heavenly Father knows who I am, He knows what I need, and He's just so willing to help. The revelatory dreams I've shared here that happened with my dissertation, and then also to know that it was okay to go ahead and retire and leave the army at that point. They all, even at the time, they just kind of seemed to fit with the thoughts that have been placed in my head and 1978. It just seemed to be kind of like the next piece and I was just getting a little nudge and it was just really fun to be on the receiving end.   KaRyn Lay  15:15   That was Ken Alford. Ken is one of the authors of a new book called "Dreams As Revelation." And he, along with Craig Mansell, whom we're going to hear from next and Mary Jane Widger have spent years researching and seeking to understand the nature of our dreams from a spiritual perspective. After he was done telling his story, I asked Ken a few questions about how dreams work in real life.  So, Ken, I have this reoccurring dream and it's where I'm in a station wagon. I'm in the front seat, but you know how they used to have those benches in the old station wagon?  Ken Alford  15:46   That face backward? KaRyn Lay  15:47   Yeah. So I'm in the front seat, but there's no seat belt and I'm in the middle and there are no pedals. And I can't stop it and it's going over a cliff. So, that's not revelatory, right?  Ken Alford  15:58   I think not. KaRyn Lay  15:59   Okay, okay, that gives me some peace. Actually, I don't think I've ever had a dream that is revelatory. I think God speaks to me in a totally different way. As the author of this book, you've done tons of research about dreams as a revelatory tool. What would you say to someone like me who's never had a dream that we can count as revelation? Ken Alford  16:19   While researching this book, we learned very quickly that revelatory dreams are the exception and not the rule. And not everyone has them and that's okay. God speaks to us each individually in many different ways. And some people seem to be more prone to these, that God can speak to them this way. Other people have other ways of receiving information from the Holy Ghost. And it's an individual matter and there's nothing wrong with anyone if they haven't had these. And in fact, quite frankly, those who do have them, when they look at it objectively they're very rare. This is a very rare event over the course of your life. KaRyn Lay  16:58   Yeah, because you said you'd had them a couple of times—smaller ones—before that dissertation "Bonanza," I don't know what else to call it. And then the big dream that helped you to know to "drop your papers" before you knew what was coming next. Ken Alford  17:15   Very briefly, it's kinda like this. We think of the Apostle Paul as a visionary man and we talked about Paul's visions, the road to Damascus. But when you look at Paul's life, it is a very rare event, even in someone who is considered a visionary. Or Joseph Smith, we consider him as being so visionary, but if you look, most days are not attended by angels, most days are not accompanied by visions. And it's absolutely the same situation for even people that do experience occasional revelatory dreams. They are a rare and unique and wonderful opportunity, but they are not the only way God surely communicates with man. KaRyn Lay  17:54   So what would your advice be to somebody who does have one of these dreams? Ken Alford  17:59   First, I would just caution that you listen to the spirit to see if this is a revelatory dream. Because we don't want to convince ourselves that something that's occurred is something that it's not. It's also important to recognize that revelatory dreams fit within your stewardship. You won't receive dreams to direct others, you won't receive dreams to direct the church, and that this is something sacred from the Lord. And, for example, the dreams about my dissertation, I haven't really shared that much until now. But I felt the time was right to be able to do that. KaRyn Lay  18:38   So seek counsel from our Father in heaven about how and when you share these things?  Ken Alford  18:42   I would say very much. You need to be comfortable and recognize that there's a time and a place for everything and every place is not the time to share everything. KaRyn Lay  18:52   And just be grateful. Ken Alford  18:54   Oh absolutely. Be grateful when it does occur, but be open to all of the ways that the Lord can speak to you. KaRyn Lay  19:01   Thanks for sharing.  Ken Alford  19:02   Thank you.   KaRyn Lay  19:04   So, friends, there's the good news. Not every dream that you have about vampires and Abraham Lincoln under your bed is a revelation. And one thing that I really appreciate about Ken's book is that it contains some pretty well-researched guidelines that can help you and me as we try to determine whether our dream is revelatory, or just that late-night Philly cheesesteak coming back to haunt us. That actually happens to me. We're going to have an excerpt from that part of the book in our show notes because we all need a little bit of help figuring out what's real.  Another thing that I, as a storyteller, really love about this book is that it's essentially a collection of stories written down from church history, from Joseph Smith to modern-day prophets and apostles and visionary women, covering all the many ways that those dreams can appear. The dreams in their purposes and the stories are as varied as the people who experienced them. For instance, some dreams are warning dreams and some dreams are teaching dreams. Some are guiding like they were for Ken and some, like the one in the story we're about to hear from Craig, they just help us to know that we're exactly where we should be doing exactly what we should be doing. Here's Craig.   Craig  20:13   Not all dreams are revelatory, but some are. We have Lehi's, and that dream led his family out of Jerusalem into the wilderness. I had been led out of Ogden, Utah, into the wilderness and life was tough.  I grew up in the Ogden area, and I come from a small family farming community called Farr West. I worked on a 250 cow dairy herd all my life. I knew what hard work meant. I love the mountains. I love to be, you know, around my family, that was everything to me. Soon after my mission, once faced with the decision of a career, I knew I wanted to be a teacher because I love to see what the teacher does in the classroom and how ideas change people's lives. And coming off a mission, I wanted to teach religion. So if I could teach Latter-day Saint doctrines, concepts in history, I would love that. And I would love to be able to work with the youth of the church. And so I was fortunate enough to be hired at seminaries and institutes. I began teaching in the Ogden area, and I was now living my dream. I met the sweetheart of my dreams and we married, we had had two children, we were teaching seminary, life was grand. And then a phone call came. Administrators from seminaries and institutes, we appreciate all this and, and then he says, "Craig, we have a new assignment for you if you choose to receive it."  I go, "A new assignment? I've only been in my assignment here for just six months and now you would like me to change it?  He says, "Yes. We need someone to teach English as a second language in Suva, Fiji and we need to know the answer within 24 hours." I decided whatever the Lord asked me to do—discipleship was very important in my life—and the Lord's hand would be in it. Others were inspired, we took time to pray about it, talk to our parents, they all said, "Don't go." And I turned to my wife and I said, "The hand of the Lord is in this. We are to go."  And she says, "I'll support you." And we call them back and in two months, we found herself as Suva, Fiji. Now our administrators might have known how much of a cultural shock this was going to be because they gave us a round trip airfare, meaning we could come home if this wasn't going to work out. My wife, Jana, had never lived outside of the United States, let alone hardly Utah. And while I served a mission and traveled a little bit, this was new to her and she was very homesick. And so she was suffering from a lot of things, trying to deal with the language, trying to figure out how to, you know, make meals in a different culture. She would have to take a bus downtown to the open market area, and she would have to learn a different money system, different kinds of vegetables she's looking at, and the meat was on the hoof, or it was live. And I remember she said to me I'm going to bring home dinner."  I said, "Great. What's that going to be?"  She says, "Chicken." She says, "And oh, by the way, the chicken will be live. You're gonna have to kill it." And I go, "Okay, yeah."  She said, "You grew up on a farm, you'll know what to do about that."  I go, "Yeah, but my dad's not here to show me what to do." And the truth of the matter is, is what happened is the chicken got loose on the bus and was sort of flying around. A Fijian lady grabs the chicken by the neck, and ringed it and killed it right on the bus. And she came home and the chicken was dead. And she says, "I'm sorry the chicken lost its life on the bus." And that was our first experience having our meal. And I plucked the chicken, cleaned the chicken and we had chicken. It wasn't long after when we were there, we all came down with a fever. We learned that was called Dengue fever, which is a mild form of malaria. We suffered through that. Our two children were suffering with heat rash because it was so hot. We were sweating profusely and the humanity was high, I mean, we were just going through all of this. We began to question, "Oh my gosh, what have we gotten ourselves into? We have no friends other than the new people we'd just been introduced to up at LDS Technical College—which is the school I was now asked to teach at. They call it a college, but it really is a high school. And it had forums 3, 4, 5, and six. I was called in to teach forms four and five. And my job was to be able to help the students successfully pass the British system school cert exams. If you don't pass the exam, you cannot go on to form five, which is the pre-course to go to a university. And both math and science and English, all those courses at the school were failing and the students were not being able to move forward to the university. And the church went out on a limb and built this school and Fiji, primarily for its members, so that they could further their education of their young people, the dreams of their parents. And what the school has become nicknamed was "The low down school." Low down because they're so low on their scores, they'll never get their students into university. So the church took action and brought three "pelongis," three of us white folks into this multicultural, diverse situation to bring the scores up. And I was then, teaching English as a second language, something I had really never been trained to do. And so that added to the stress and the difficulty of making the adjustment. My biggest fear was whether I would succeed because if you don't have 80% or above, you have failed and mom and dad will take them out and just put them on the plantation. And their life is pretty much you know, that's what it's going to be the rest of their life. So there I was, day in day out, I was working through what I was doing with my work. I needed something. I needed some answer, that this was the Lord's well for me. And I prayed about that, I fasted about that and I received my answer. It was in the form of a dream.  I remember, the dream is if it was yesterday, it never leaves my mind. I was in my very classroom, in the building that I teach at. I remember I was teaching. But as I was teaching, my students started looking and pointing, and they could see something behind me that I couldn't see. And I turned around and there was someone standing in the air, and he was dressed in white and immense light. And no words were spoken and I could see his feet, and I could see the wounds hit his feet.  Now at that point, everything in the classroom had just dissolved. The students who were there, they weren't part of the dream anymore. But I remember seeing His feet and I bathed His feet in my tears. And I held them close. And I recall, He lifted me up to Him. And He then encircled me in His arms, His ever-loving arms, and He pulled me close. And He said to me, you can do this. And I woke up. I woke up at that point, I sat straight up in bed. I thought I was going to be in the presence of the Savior when I woke up. And then I clearly understood it was a dream. I left our bedchamber and walked over into our of the room. I sat there, just stunned what had happened. And I knew that this was different, a different experience than I had ever had before, my first experience of a revelatory dream. I could not journal it for the longest time. I couldn't bear to write it down in words because it was so sacred to me. And I was filled with this love that He had—my Savior—had shared with me. I was filled with this love that overcame all the obstacles that we had felt. I soon realized that I had transcended the pain and the obstacles that were still in front of us. But my wife had not because she was still suffering and I had now come above that suffering and could understand. She had noticed that something had happened to me. And I finally realized I must tell her about this dream. And so I sat her down and I shared it with her. And I said Jesus said, "We can do this." We can do this. And she says, "I knew something had happened to you. You've changed over the last couple of weeks." She says, "That makes all the difference to me, because if you can do this, then I can too." And it changed our life forever. We stayed three years. And what happened after the students had their exams, they went from the low 50-60 percentile that year, to 86%. And the following year 91%. And then the third year, they were up into the 94 percentile. We won the spelling bees and we won the drama events, we had the best yearbook competition. Every different way we could find to make English live in the lives of the students through lots of curricular activities with them. And it happened for science and for math and for English. When we left, they've never had to bring in a plunge again. And they've continued on and to this day, for 40 years. And from that experience in Fiji, every time the phone call comes, and they have come several of them. Jana, we've got another phone call. And she says, "Where are they asking us to go?" And I will tell her and she says, "Are we going to go?" I said, "We're going to go." It comes back to the dream. You can do this. Not just Fiji, but it meant anything the Lord would ask me to do. I learned that God knew my thoughts and the intents of my heart that I wanted to be a disciple. But it was hard at that time. He knew my thoughts. I believe the Lord knew how to succor me and how to give me that answer. And for me, it was in a dream.   KaRyn Lay  33:50   That was Craig Mansell, one of the three authors of "Dreams As Revelation." That moment in Craig's dream when the Savior encircled him, is such a beautiful image. It makes me wish that I could remember a dream that I've had at some point in my life. I love to think that Heavenly Father can and does sometimes use our dreams just to comfort us, and in the process reveals something about ourselves that can help us move forward. For Craig and Jana, his wife, it was that reminder that our strength and sustaining power to complete our missions and callings here on Earth, doesn't have to come from us. Because when we are yoked with the Savior, embraced by him, we move together, and we have access to his power. And we can have hope in that kind of success so that when the phone rings next time, we're ready to heed the call and head wherever we're asked to go. Our final story comes from Emily who learned that while we can't receive revelation for another person, sometimes God does use our dreams to help us minister to one another. Here's Emily.   Emily  34:50   When I came back to work full time, the man in the cubicle next to me became a really good friend. He had been hired by the same man who hired me. He was a mutual friend of ours who had died of cancer some years previous. And this colleague of mine had spoken at his funeral and we just were really close and had a great relationship. This colleague had a son, his only son, who had been introduced to drugs in elementary school and struggled with them for years and years. And finally, as parents they had to make him leave the home and have him try to figure out on his own what to do with his life. And he was figuring it out and had actually come home as an adult and was working on putting his life back together and making really good progress. So you can imagine how shocked they were when one day the sheriff showed up at their door and said that their son had died of an accidental drug overdose.  It was a terrible, terribly sad turn of affairs and my friend was devastated and sad, but faithful. And he spoke at his son's funeral, which I thought was incredibly courageous. When you're in that much pain and have that much grief, I just, I can't imagine having the strength to be able to speak at that funeral. But he wanted to tell his son's story. He wanted to be sure that people understood the whole picture, and how he knew that his son had been doing his best to return to the light. So some months after the funeral, one night, I had a very vivid dream in which I dreamed of this young man who had died. The son of my colleague and it was really strange because I didn't ever meet him. I didn't know him at all, and I'm not even sure I knew what he looked like. But in my dream, I knew that that was who it was. And while I was watching him, a man came and put his arm around him and started walking with him and was sitting down with him, and clearly talking with him and working with him. And it was clear again to me that this man who was doing this was our mutual friend who had passed away, the man who had hired us. That it was that friend who was now working with my colleague's son on the other side of the veil. It's so interesting to think about how I recognized that it was our mutual friend who was helping this boy. I'm not even sure that I knew it from looking at him, although, you know, he was very familiar to me, of course, his face would have been very familiar to me. But it was almost more a feeling that I had, and it made so much sense to me, that it would be him because that was the kind of person that he was, that was the kind of friend he was. And I know he would have done anything he could have for my colleague. If he'd been here he would have. And so it made sense that he would continue to feel that way on the other side of the veil. When I woke up from that dream, I felt so calm and clear. And it was so clear in my mind that what I had experienced a certainty about what I had seen, and a clarity of detail in that whole interaction. I didn't hear anything that was said, I'm not even conscious of there having been sound, just of being an observer of this interaction going on. But I do remember feeling an urgency to capture that while it was clear in my mind, so I could share it. The next day, I wrote a letter to my colleague who had since retired. When I thought about sharing the dream with my friend, my first thought was, "That's a little presumptious." Like "Who am I to be getting a dream for you?" Which is why when I wrote to him, I tried very hard to make it clear, "I don't know why but I just want you to know this is what happened." So a little nervous, just because it seemed unfair, in a way, that it should be me and not him that would get the dream. And I said, "I don't know why I was given this dream and not you. It seems very strange to me because I don't have any skin in the game. There's no reason for this to have come to me, except that I think Heavenly Father knew I would tell you about it, I would share it with you and that maybe it would mean more to you, or might be easier for you to believe it, if it came to somebody who just didn't really have a stake in this. Maybe you would have thought it was wishful-thinking if it had come to you, but I want you to know that this is what I dreamed, and this is what I saw. And I feel certain that our friend is taking care of your son on the other side." Just another really interesting message that people who cared about us here, continue to care about us. That we have people who have been in our lives who really are a lasting part of our eternal lives and our eternal progression. I have wondered why Heavenly Father gave me that dream. The more I have thought about it over the years, the more layers I uncover about what it really means to me and what I've learned from it. And it was a really rare occurrence. It's not a way that the Lord typically speaks to me. And I think part of it is because he knew that I had the kind of friendship with my colleague that I would share it with him. And then I would actually write it and share it in a form that he would keep that is sort of my form of communication is writing so that he knew it would be a record for my friend. It makes me want to listen to my friends more. Someone says, "I've been thinking about you," or some of those kinds of things, it makes me want to listen more to my own feelings. I've been thinking about somebody, I should tell them, I better let them know that means something. I don't always get it that clearly, as clearly as it came in that dream. Not that I think you should get revelation for other people or should plan on doing it, because I don't believe that but sometimes I just think He's just generous in that way. But it was a good reminder that the Lord really does want to communicate with me and with his children, all his children. It really helps me to know that there are things that I can learn that are specific for my development or for the help of people that I love, that the Lord really wants to help us and He'll do it through whatever avenue will get us the help that we need.   KaRyn Lay  43:02   That was Emily. I love that Emily's experience with this dream was a personal call to action. It would have been really easy for her to brush it off, or even share that one time and call it good. She didn't. And as a friend of Emily's, I can attest to the fact that she often sends the scripture, the note, the poem at just the right moment. And that is the beauty of our relationship with revelatory experiences and ministering. They're meant to open a connection between our earthly existence and our heavenly one, to unite our spirits and our bodies for a brief moment so that we can be different forever. And so I take two lessons from Emily's story. First, to be the kind of disciple God can trust to write it down. And second, to be the kind of disciple God can trust to let the dream or the prompting or the ministering assignment, change me.  While I've never had anything more than anxiety dreams, like the one I mentioned to Ken. Our producer, Sarah, has had so many symbolic and revelatory dreams. In fact, she even shared one with us in Episode 12 of this podcast. It's the episode called "Love Is What Brings Us Together Today." So of course, I had to ask her thoughts on this theme. And first of all, she echoed what each of the storytellers says about the dreams that they've had that have revealed something. They said, "This dream felt different. Other dreams are mostly nonsense, but for some reason, this one felt special, and I knew it immediately." Sarah also shared this thought, "In our dreams, we are sort of uninhibited. We're free from some of the constructs and constraints of real life, like the laws of physics or the passage of time. But also, we're not always free from some of the social constructs or the limits that we put on our thinking. And I think that juxtaposition of the freedom of physical law and the ways that we're still tied to the earth, I think that's kind of where the rubber hits the road. The contrast opens us up to seeing our world in new ways or learning something that we didn't expect to. Messages can come through with different clarity because we're in a different kind of world. I personally love that idea that God can use this unique revelatory tool to cut through some of what I often call 'Earth dust.' 'Earth dust' is that feeling that settles on us little by little that lulls us into thinking that the ways of the world are the ways of God, or that who we are here right now is all we'll ever be. That earth dust can be so subtle and so insidious, and really detrimental to our spiritual growth. I can't help but think what a gift it is to have a dream, a moment of otherworldliness and connection with our heavenly parents through revelation. Which by the way, the word revelation comes from the Latin, 'to unveil to uncover or lay bare.' Through revelation, however it comes to us, we are laid bare as true children of God in those moments and we see ourselves, and our true nature as problem solvers, creators, teachers, just as Ken did. Or we see ourselves as worthy, capable and embraced by Christ as Craig did. And we see ourselves as true friends and trusted allies in the work of ministring as Emily did. Every one of those revelatory moments helps us to be better able to move forward in our discipleship, despite the inevitable accumulation of more and more Earth dust. Revelation is a clearing off, a starting over. Whether your moments of heavenly connection and uncovering come through dreams or one of the myriad other ways God uses spiritual gifts to communicate with us, what we can absolutely trust is that He is doing everything He can to reveal us and our true nature to ourselves so that we can win, so that we can come home to Him. That's it for this episode of "This Is The Gospel." Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for putting up with my winter voice. And thank you to Ken, Craig, and Emily for sharing their stories and their faith. We'd also like to offer a special thanks to Dr. Mary Jane Woodger for helping us to make this episode happen. If you want more stories about dreams and revelation, well, you definitely need to check out the show notes at LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel. We'll have a link to "Dreams As Revelation," as well as an excerpt about the different guiding principles that can help you determine if your dreams are a revelation, or indigestion.  We really appreciate those of you who've taken the time to leave a review on iTunes for this podcast. You're probably sick of me asking but, hey, I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I know that if we don't ask, we don't receive. So if you haven't already told us in a review how you feel about our stories about the podcast, please take a minute to do that. It really does help more people find the show. All of our stories are true and accurate as a firm by our storytellers. If you have a great story about your experience living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, well we want to hear from you on the pitch line. Leave us a short three-minute story pitch at 515-519-6179 and you can find out what themes we're working on right now by following us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast. This episode was produced by Sarah Blake with story producing and editing by me, KaRyn Lay, Katie Lambert, and Kelly Campbell. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix At Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at LDSliving.com/podcast. Have a great week.

Stories in this episode: Encouraging words at a low point in Matt’s mission show how missionary work can be done beyond the veil. Melissa finally finds a way to share her testimony with her extended family after an unusual prompting. Amidst her son's battle with cancer, Cheryl finds angels sometimes come in the form of a kind neighbor with a red wagon. Brooke learns how angels can help us in ways we don’t always anticipate after the unexpected passing of her mother. This Episode of This Is The Gospel is sponsored by LIGHT THE WORLD. Join us as we #LightTheWorld this Christmas and sign up to get daily service prompts through text message or email. Text the word “LIGHT” to the number: 71234 or visit LighttheWorld.org. That's also where you'll find "The Christ Child", a brand new short film that New Testament scholars are calling the most historically accurate depiction of the Nativity ever filmed.  SHOW NOTES: To see pictures, and find links to things mentioned in this episode, go here. To find out more about the themes we're developing for upcoming episodes, follow us @thisisthegospel_podcast on Instagram and Facebook :) TRANSCRIPT: KaRyn Lay Welcome to This Is the Gospel, an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay.  Last year right around this time, I was lucky enough to attend the Tabernacle Choir's Christmas concert featuring Kristin Chenoweth. And even though our seats were far from fancy, my friend and I were literally going to sit in the nosebleed section of the conference center, you know those seats up at the very top that makes you feel just a little bit dizzy if you look down too quickly? I didn't even care. I am such a huge musical theater nerd that the thought of watching Glinda from Wicked singing with Mack Wilberg, it totally had me fangirling.  But then, just moments before we made it into the Conference Center to find our seats, I got a phone call from my mom telling me that my grandma, my nanny, was not doing well and was not expected to live through the night. And even though I knew this might be coming, I found myself unable to keep my emotions at bay. I cried all the way to my nosebleed seat. I wept through the first half of the concert. I ran out of tissues by intermission. And I really thought that the tears were not going to stop.  But as I sat there listening to that beautiful music, suddenly they did stop. Somehow, in the midst of my feelings of deep loss and sorrow, something else came over me. And I don't really know what else to call it, but it was a wave of comfort, of sweetness. It washed over me, and I was finally able to breathe again. The theme of that concert was "Angels among Us" and many of the songs were pointedly dedicated to the angels, both earthly and beyond, who point us towards the Christ child. It might seem strange to say this, but as the choir and sweet Sister Chenoweth, as I like to call her, sang about the work of angels to herald the birth of Jesus, it's like I could feel the angels there with me too, reminding me that heaven and earth are not that far removed from one another. And that I can take comfort in the birth and the life of One who restores the distance that does exist.  My nanny surprisingly rallied. And, in fact, she's still with us today. But I knew when we were thinking of story themes for this season, that I wanted to honor that moment in the conference center with stories about angels. About the angels in our lives, both earthly and heavenly, who continue the work of drawing us towards the Christ child. And today, we've got four stories that do just that.  Our first storyteller is Matt, who didn't realize he needed the help of angels until it was already in progress. Here's Matt. Matt (2:47) I was the first person in my family to be called on a mission that required the learning of the language. I had been called to serve in Nicaragua, Spanish speaking, and I didn't get any insight or counsel from my brother, for example, or my dad because they didn't know what it was like to learn a language.  I was naive at the time and for whatever reason, I thought that the gift of tongues was something that came more immediate. I was four days into my stay at the MTC, and I was thinking to myself, "Gosh, this is just not coming to me." With hindsight and perspective now, it's funny as I look back on that. That I would have thought that somehow four days in I'd be learning and understanding and being able to speak the language.  I was in a meeting one day and I had my head down, and I was discouraged. I was really discouraged. I was missing my, my house, my family, and having a difficult time with what I perceived to be the inability to learn Spanish. While in that frame of mind, and with my head down, I began to wonder, "Can I even do this? Is this worth it?" And I had a very clear message come into my mind. It was the voice of a man, nonaudible but almost felt audible. And he said, "Elder Hill, pick up your head. I need you to find my family." And I thought, "Wow." I knew it wasn't me because it wouldn't have been a thought that I would have had at the time. My thoughts were far distant from that thought. My thoughts were, "How do I get out of this? How do I go home?"  I wrote in my journal that night and thought nothing of it. I actually didn't even mention it that night. It wasn't until the next day it, almost as an afterthought, I wrote in parentheses, almost as like a P.S., "Oh yeah, by the way, while in a meeting the other day, I heard the voice of a man tell me to pick up my head because he was counting on me and needed me to find his family." And then I wrote, "I guess he's dead. I guess we'll have to see if I can find his family." And that was it.  You know, I didn't think much on this experience the rest of my stay there. I didn't even share the experience with anybody. Nobody in my district there at the MTC, I didn't write about it in any letters, it was something that just had taken place that day. And I thought, "Well, I guess I'll write a little bit about it. And we'll see at some point if that ever really translates to anything."  I know it sounds funny that I put this thought in parentheses almost as like a P.S. at the end of my journal entry, but there's a reason for that. I had an experience prior to my mission in a similar nature came while in the Logan temple one day. I had just received my mission call and I was going into be confirmed for the dead. And I close my eyes and out of nowhere, I felt the presence of my grandpa, who I have never met. My grandpa passed away when my dad was nearly turning 12 and so I've never met him. And so for me to have an experience where he's there, it seems like this would be something kind of out of that world, but it just felt so natural. I knew that it was my grandpa. And I'm not sure how I knew that. I could see him in my mind's eye. And I absolutely felt that it was him. I knew it was him. As I think back and reflect upon that, that experience, it seems odd, even to my mind, to consider and to think on that. How did I know it was him? I instantly knew. There wasn't a second guess. I close my eyes and there was my grandpa.  In fact, the very second I perceived his presence I said, "Hey gramps, how are you?" And his response to me was, "So Nicaragua, huh?" And he expressed how proud he was for my decision that I had made to go and to serve a mission. And I got the chills. And I immediately was just so, it was like a longing, like a, "I haven't seen you forever," kind of a feel. And that's the way it felt is, "Grandpa, how are you?" And I missed him, and I knew I had missed him. And I guess it was my spirit who knew him and who missed him. Because like I said, I had never met him before. So the idea of that sounds very strange that I may have known him. And he told me that he had come to tell me he was going down to prepare the hearts of people that I would come in contact with and to give me a bit of advice, and he gave me some advice. He told me that, "While on your mission, I want you to make sure that you are obedient to the mission rules." Because I will find protection and safety through my obedience. And then he said, "I want you to go home and I want you to tell your mother that you will be protected on your mission. She is worried about you, where you've been called to serve."  And I went home and I told my mom the experience and she broke down, and she had hid it really well. My mom had hid it, I had no idea that she was concerned and that she was worried about where I was going. She'd been looking up all about it that they had recently had a war not long prior, a civil war in the country. And I was pretty clueless. I was just excited to go. I had prepared for it and was excited and had no idea that my mom was beat up inside about this. And so I look back on that experience with my grandpa in the temple that day, I think in part it was maybe for me. But I think the bigger reason, I should say, for the experience was more for my mom to give her some peace of mind. Three months later, I was walking out of a pueblo one day with my trainer, that the pueblo was Sunny Isidro. And as we were walking out of the pueblo, I looked over to the right at the very last house in this little pueblo. And I saw two little kids playing out front in the dirt. I kind of looked at him and then continued to walk forward. And I had an impression that we should go talk to that family. So I turned to my trainer and said, "Hey, do you mind if we go introduce yourself to them real fast?" He said, "Okay, yeah, let's do it." So we get into the house and my campaign starts to talk with the mom and she was knitting a little piece of clothing at the time and sitting in a rocking chair. And I, as I mentioned, I didn't speak very much Spanish. I had kind of suggested we'd come introduce ourselves here.  And, and one thing my dad, one bit of counsel he gave me before I serve my mission, he said, "You know, when you go into these homes, look at the walls and look at things that are on the walls. Typically, those are things that have meaning to people and comment on them." So, I made that a practice of mine and I noticed a picture on the wall of a police force. I walked over to the picture, and I looked at it, there was about 15 or 20 policemen in this picture. And as I was looking at the picture, there was a man who jumped out at me, and I didn't know why. With my limited abilities in Spanish, I said, "Quien es el?" Which meant, "Who is he?" And I pointed at him. And the mom as she was knitting, she put her head down, and she began to cry. She said, "He was my husband. And he was shot and killed this last year."  I immediately had the chills overtake my body and the hairs on my arms stood up. And I was so excited because I knew this, the Holy Ghost had confirmed to me this is that man's house. And I knew I had found the family. And so my reaction, I know that the normal, typical reaction in a scenario such as this would be to say, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for your loss." But inside what I was feeling is just complete joy and excitement and I wanted to scream out, "Your husband is alive and he cares about you. And he wants you to be happy. And he spoke to me." I had no words, I couldn't speak Spanish. I knew I had no chance at articulating that thought, and I knew the moment wasn't right to express joy and to be excited. And so what I did is I said, "I'm sorry." But inside, if she could have seen my true emotions, my emotions were jumping for joy. And that's how I felt. I had forgotten about the words that I had come into my mind in the MTC, I'd forgotten all about it. It had been months and there I was, standing in that home and connection was very vivid and clear. This is my family. We left that home. And I said to my campaign, my trainer, I said, "Elder, they're going to join the Church. They're going to accept the gospel. And he looked at me and he kind of chuckled, he says, "You know, I felt the same way. You know, when I was new, I felt the same way about everybody I came in contact with." And I left it at that. He was, he was getting close to going home and I didn't feel like the moment was right to share the experience I had had.  So a couple of weeks later, my trainer went home, and I was sent a new campaign. His name was Elder Wilson. Elder Wilson only had himself maybe three or four months out in the field as well. And so he came and said, "Hey, tell me about who we are teaching in the area." And I said, "Elder, I want to share an experience I had in the MTC a few months back." And he looked at me and he said, "Elder Hill, if we do nothing more together with the time that we have then help this family by giving them every opportunity to join the gospel, I believe our time together will have been a success. And I thanked him for that. And I said, "I agree." And he said, "We cannot and we will not give up on that family." And, oddly enough, I started to laugh and he looked at me, he said, "What are you laughing about?" And I said, "I'm laughing because of the idea and thought of you and I going out and trying to teach this gospel because you don't speak much Spanish and I speak far less." And we both just started to laugh as we envision what it might be like to receive the gospel in that way. And we realized that in there, it wasn't going to be much what we did. It was really going to come down to the Spirit testifying that whatever we were trying to say, was true. And we relied heavily upon the Spirit more so during that phase of my mission than any other just simply because of the fact we didn't have the benefit of our words to help express what we were trying to convey.  We didn't give up on that family. And a couple of months later, I was in the baptismal font watching as the mother entered the waters of baptism with tears coming down her face. And I was in a similar emotional state at the time and I was crying as well and we embraced. And again, I wanted so badly to tell her so much about her husband and how excited and happy he would be because I knew it. But, again, I didn't have the words in Spanish to express and convey that message.  The next day she received the gift of the Holy Ghost, her and her daughters. And it was fast Sunday and she bore her testimony. And in her testimony, she said, "Ever since my husband passed away, I have felt the yearning to come to this church. And I haven't known why. Now I know why." She said that this gospel, with the limited time she has spent in it and learned about it, has brought her so much peace and joy. And she is convinced that her husband is super happy with her and her daughters' decision. Having the perspective of being a father myself, there isn't anything that I wouldn't do for my children. It connects me with the father who spoke with me in the MTC in a very real way now because I have the perspective that he has. I understand the, the longing that must be present there as he watches his family live their lives in his absence. It helps me to know that I would do the very same thing. That I would do anything in my power to help my family in any way possible. I didn't have the ability to ever have a full conversation with that family, to express to them what had happened to me and what their dad had come and told me. And I look back on that and maybe I'm grateful that I didn't have the words to express that, because maybe they joined the gospel more free willing of their own accord rather than feeling like they were doing it for their dad.  I don't think there's anything special about me, per se. The times where these experiences have happened. It has always been for the benefit of somebody else. And why I've been having the ability to have that happen or to be able to perceive those words and those thoughts, I don't know. But I do believe that our Heavenly Father does know how to reach us. And oftentimes I think the way He chooses to do that is different for all of us. The gospel of Jesus Christ is very important to those that are living and those that have passed on. I've learned that our Father allows those on the other side to be very much a part of the work that we are doing here. He allows my grandpa, as an example, to go and to go in advance of me and help prepare people for people I would meet. And every time I had somebody accept the gospel, I would always think back on my grandpa, and I would think, "Man, I'm grateful to have a grandpa that cares enough to be out here. And that cares to help me find these people." KaRyn (19:59) That was Matt.  Matt first shared his story with us on the pitch line and when we contacted him to develop it for the episode he, like so many others, wondered if this experience was too sacred to share. I get that. Telling our stories is a sacred business because our stories are powerful. And because of that, we have a duty and an obligation to seek counsel with the Lord about how we share our stories and when we share them.  I'm always humbled when the right place and time to share the story is on our podcast and even more humbled when someone realizes that the time is not right. I honor that. Ultimately, the choice to share a personal witness of a sacred experience is between the storyteller and the Spirit. In his own process of determining the timing to tell this story, Matt found this beautiful quote from Elder Holland's message entitled "For a Wise Purpose" from the January 1996 Ensign. In that message, Elder Holland said, quote:    "I believe we need to speak of and believe in and bear testimony of the ministry of angels more than we sometimes do. They constitute one of God's great methods of witnessing through the veil, and no document in all this world teaches that principle so clearly and so powerfully as does the Book of Mormon," end quote. I really believe that our stories, when used for a wise purpose or gift to one another, testify of Jesus Christ and His power and His glory.  Our next story bearing witness of the ministry of angels comes from Melissa, who believed she was alone in her new faith until a unique heavenly message helped her see that she was anything but alone. Here's Melissa. Melissa (21:41) I grew up with the memory of my cousin. She was nine months old when she passed away. She actually passed away before I was even born. But I was named after her, my middle name was after her, and I missed her. And I couldn't figure out why, I didn't understand why I missed her so much. But I knew that I wish that she could be here.  That was until I learned about the plan of salvation. And I learned about how we live before we were born. I learned about how we had relationships, and we chose to come to this earth to be able to progress. It made sense that we had relationships because I felt this bond that I probably was best friends with my cousin. And she's probably been rooting for me this whole time. So I knew I had to be a part of that kind of truth.  But joining the Church wasn't really the easiest thing in the world. My mom wasn't very excited about it. Neither my mom or dad were excited about it. I think it was because I was 18 years old. I was just graduating from high school about to move away to a new world, a new life away from them. I was the oldest too so it's the first time any of us are going through it. So not only my throwing in moving away and experiencing life but also I threw in a new religion and a new way of life. And I think my mom at one time told me she just couldn't go with me. She couldn't follow where I was going. And it really broke her heart. And it was hard for me because I felt like I was going to truth and I was going closer to my Savior, and if anything, I was doing things so that way my family could be together forever. So going to Church was a little bit tough. As much as it's so exciting, and I felt so whole and connected to my Heavenly Father, my Savior, it was very lonely going to church.  I would walk into church and you see all these families, regardless of probably how hard it was to keep everybody reverent during sacrament, you can feel and tell the love that just embodied everybody and their families. And it was, I was so jealous to see that and be able to have those families sit together and be able to share these experiences together.  And don't get me wrong, I was pretty popular. Everybody wanted me to sit with them. They always wanted me to make sure I felt welcome and loved. And so definitely was not a lack of support from anybody. But it was hard when you go with friends when they go through the temple of the first time and you see this crowd of family at the luncheon afterwards. And you just see this, people from so many different sources, whether aunts, uncles, cousins, grandmas, all there to support you in your decision and your journey spiritually. So I always felt super lonely and just really sad and longed for the day that I could be able to be sealed to somebody and be able to have family that I was able to share the gospel with. Luckily, my husband took me on, and we have four beautiful children. And we've been sharing testimonies and stories and it's wonderful to have that. But again, it's so, it's just saddened because I wish that I can share it with my family, too.  About a couple years ago, I started hearing this voice in my head, "Ugh, aye mi hija!" And my grandmother has passed away 10 years ago. When I was a kid growing up, I did a lot, a lot of dumb things. And whenever she'd catch me doing something she'd be like, "Aye, mi hija!" And she was so disappointed in me for being, making just dumb choices. And I was hearing that sound, "Aye, mi hija!" And I knew what it was. "Aye, mi hija!" It was my grandmother. "Aye, mi hija!" Why have you done my work yet? Why have you not gotten me sealed to your grandfather yet? "Aye, mi hija!" So I knew I had to get her work done. Because I was not gonna be here that was the rest of my life. So I start, I started working hard getting all of her work done. Through my grandparents, who had passed away, I was able to get all of their parents' work done and sealed. And so we got this nice lot of work done now for my family. And it was super exciting to be able to get all that stuff done.  Well, a couple of months ago, I was training for a marathon and I was on a 20-mile run that day. I had to leave at four in the morning. I was 10 miles into my run, and it was just a beautiful, was a beautiful day. The sun hadn't come out yet and the stars were shining. The area that I happened to be in was a gated community so there wasn't any streetlights. So the stars were able to even shine brighter, and it was a completely clear sky. So I looked up to the sky and it was just gorgeous. And I couldn't help but admire how beautiful this creation that God had given me, this earth that just naturally brings beauty. And then as I was running, I felt somebody running beside me. And I knew it was my grandmother. She started running beside me. And then, then someone became beside her. And on the other side, there was someone else that came beside, and all of a sudden I had a row of angels running beside me. And I knew It wasn't just angels. It was my family. It was my grandfathers, it was my cousin, it was my great-grandparents.  And they ran with me for a little bit. And so I started bearing my testimony, my soul, sharing up all the wonderful things that I have found by coming to know of the truth of the gospel, that I was able to share my testimony and able to share my experiences with my family.  Because of that experience, I have felt them so much more lately in my life. I even felt them actually on my marathon. I was running, and I was only at mile seven, and I felt them coming down and I was like, "Wait on guys, hold on, hold on. Appreciate you coming down. But I'm going to need your help around mile 18. Mile seven, I'm good, keeping good pace." And they did come at mile 18 and had to stay with me the whole entire time because I barely made it till mile 26.  I was reading in the Doctrine and Covenants when the Kirtland Temple was being dedicated. And it talks about how to leave this temple with angels having charge over us. It made me really connect that to my family, that the angels being charged over me are not just any random angels, they're my family. That loneliness has been able to to go away because I do have those family members that are part of the gospel. That were most likely there when I got sealed to my wonderful husband. That had been there when my sons have gotten baptized. That will continue to be there as we go through these great moments. I am so grateful to have that knowledge, to have those angels with me as I go forth. KaRyn (30:24) That was Melissa.  I love the image of her ancestors coming to run next to her. Every time I think about it, it reminds me of some kind of scene from the end of a movie. It's like, after the montage and there's this amazing music playing and then all of a sudden the heroine looks to her left and looks to her right and realizes that she is not alone. And honestly, couldn't we all use a little shove in the middle of a marathon from those who've already finished the race? I know I could.  Our next story is a short and sweet one from Cheryl whose angel came right to the front door.  Here's Cheryl. Cheryl (30:56) My son Lincoln was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia, which is the cancer of the blood when he was 2-and-a-half years old. We also had a 1-year-old, Sawyer. So our hands were pretty full, and it was pretty devastating to get that diagnosis.  About six months later, we moved to Greenville, North Carolina, so my husband could do his residency program. Shortly after we moved to North Carolina, things got really hard for me. Lincoln was in a phase of his chemotherapy treatment that was really intense. And he was on these medications that made him super cranky and really agitated, particularly the steroids that were bad. They caused him to want to eat constantly. He ate so much, he retained so much water that he had what the doctors called moon face because his face got so big and round that it looked like the shape of a moon. On top of all that, I was pregnant and in my first trimester. I just remember being so nauseous and waking up with Lincoln, sometimes multiple times a night, to spoon-feed him chicken broccoli casserole and Pasta Roni, those are the two things he always wanted because he was so hungry. And it broke my heart to see him so uncomfortable and so miserable.  Meanwhile, Sawyer, his little brother, was almost two and I felt so guilty for the life that he'd been experiencing for the past several months. I felt so bad for him being stuck inside all the time with a sick brother and a sick mom day after day, and I did, I just didn't have the energy and I couldn't do much about it. I couldn't take him out and play with him and go to the park, anything like that. And we just moved to the area so I didn't know anybody so I didn't feel like I had friends or support to draw on at the time. And I remember one day, I just hit an all-time low and had a bad night hadn't slept. And I just I picked up my phone, and I text my three sisters who live all across the country. And my text said something like, "This is awful. I can't do this anymore. Help." And I'm a very dramatic person so I knew that text would be alarming to them. But I was just so desperate.  Right after I send the text, my sister Wendy called, but I was busy and I couldn't answer the phone. So then about five minutes later, she called back again and that time I, I did answer. About a minute into our conversation, the doorbell rang. And I told my sister and she said, "Well, go answer the door." and I said, "I'm not answering the door. I am not expecting anyone. I don't know anyone here. My house is a mess. I look horrific. I'm not answering the door." And then she told me that for the past five minutes since she received my text, she'd been on her knees praying that someone would come help me because she couldn't. So I swallow my pride going out to the door, and standing there was my neighbor who lived down the street. And I had only met her once before that, maybe twice, just in passing. And she was there with her daughter who was in a red wagon. Carolyn told me she felt like she should just come see how I was doing and she wanted to know if Sawyer, my son who had been feeling particularly bad about neglecting, if he might want to go on a wagon ride with her daughter around the neighborhood.  It was such a simple act, such a simple gesture, but it meant the world to me. I started crying and I told her that I felt like she was an angel and that God had sent her and she was an answer to prayer. And I'm sure she thought I was a little bit crazy but in that moment, I was just so grateful. And I really, truly felt like she was an angel that had been sent. I knew my Heavenly Father was aware of me and I felt His love so strongly. It just washed over me. I knew He'd heard my sister's prayer, and I felt His love and His awareness so strongly that I just, I couldn't deny it, and I still can't deny it today.  Though nothing really changed drastically after that day, Lincoln and I continued to feel sick and struggle together. But I had received a witness that God was aware of me in my darkest hour, and He sent my neighbor who I barely knew as a ministering angel to offer the perfect act of service. And that was just enough to keep me going.  Lincoln continued to have chemo treatments for another three years but he made it through and he's cured. He's in remission now and he's been cancer-free for the past four years. And I'm just so grateful.  I often look back on that experience with Carolyn and it just reminds me that we can get through hard times. And we can be angels for other people just like she was for me. So we can lift each other, and we can be the hands of heaven here on earth. KaRyn (36:52) That was Cheryl.  Do you ever worry that what you're offering is weird or wrong or might offend somebody? I know I do. And I think that sometimes that stops me from showing up for people in their time of need. But Cheryl's story is exactly what I needed this week to kick my shame to the curb. Ministering is all about trusting that who you are and how you move in the world is already enough for the people you've been paired with or prompted toward. And that God will transform your offer of a red wagon ride into exactly what your neighbor needs. I also think it helps me to remember that the work of heaven and angels is not limited to those and other realms. We get to be a part of that work, too. And what a privilege that is.  Our final story today comes from Brooke and if you've been silently listening to today's stories, wondering where your angels are, well, this one's for you. Here's Brooke. Brooke (37:46) I was on a conference call with Whitney and Soni, the two girls that I sing with. And we were discussing our upcoming tours and I got a phone call from my mom. My mom was diagnosed with the flu the day before, so I thought, "Oh, she's just calling to tell me how she's feeling." And she kept calling. She'd call hang-up, call hang-up, which is normal for my mom. That's, that's what my mom does until you answer the phone. So I finally texted her and just said, "Hey, I am on a conference call, I'll call you back as soon as I'm done." And I sent this text and as soon as I sent the text, she called again. And I thought, "Okay, that, that's not like my mom." It was my dad calling from my mom's phone and told me that my mom had stopped breathing and the ambulance was on their way and to just hang tight until they got to a hospital. And then he would call us from there. But I live fairly close to my dad so I told him I would just jump in the car and just run over and just be with him until they get that figured out. And I remember driving and just praying, "Just let her be okay." I just assumed she'd be okay. It's the flu, right? It's 2018, it's not 1740, so I felt okay about it but obviously a little nervous.  When I got there, there was two or three ambulances there and a police car and they were rolling out a stretcher, the stretcher was empty. And I thought, "Oh, maybe she's okay." So I asked them quickly, "What happened? Where's my mom?" They said, "Well, are you Brooke? Just go inside." And my dad was standing there with the most blank look and said, "There's nothing they can do. They couldn't do anything." And I just froze. I couldn't believe this was actually happening. And I even remember kind of yelling at the, yelling at the EMTs saying, "How long did you try? You didn't try long enough." They just kind of stared at me. And I just I couldn't believe that I had lost my mom to the flu. You know, she'd been at my house three days before just loving on my kids and she was, she was gone. My mom was very full of life. I know that sounds cliche, but I don't know how else to describe her. Everything she did was so big: her actions were big her, her voice was loud, just her hair was big. She even would had this whistle. And, you know, it was interesting no matter where you were, what event you were at, what school play you were at, you knew where my mom was sitting because of this whistle that would just kill everybody's ears. That was her signature thing.  She was the person that would walk up to strangers, even like homeless people, and hug them and talk to them. Sometimes the, the stranger's face would have a look of confusion like, "Who is this lady touching me and why is she touching me?" But a lot of times you'd almost see their faces just kind of melt just, "I just I really needed that." Even though she's a stranger, you know.  We found out all these really great stories about her after. She would visit her Young Women with flowers when their sister moved away to college because she knew that this little girl was struggling with her sister leaving. Or, she'd show up at lacrosse games or she did tea parties for my kids. She was a grandma that came to things and showed up. I think we definitely took it for granted. I don't know if you're ever really done grieving. I think the first year was fog and a lot of drowning. And I think that's typical. Second year, maybe it's a little bit easier. That first year was horrible. I still have a lot of triggers. It sounds so funny, but she loved "Downton Abbey." She thought she was British. We always laugh like, "You're not British, Mom." But she thought she was British so she loved "Downton Abbey." It was her ringtone on my phone. And after she passed away, you know, the show is not on anymore and I was sitting in the movie theater just a couple months ago and the preview for the new movie coming out came up. The second I heard the music, it was just, just waterworks. You know, I don't expect to be sitting in a movie theater crying about a song that represents my mom. There's triggers everywhere and I just, all the firsts you expect, but the little things are hard. I don't even know how to tell somebody how to get through this other than I just know you become a part of this crazy club of people grieving lost ones. And so there are days where you feel really alone and days that you know you're not. One of the things that comforted me after I lost her was that I knew angels existed and I knew that they were very present in our lives. I have had experiences with that before. I have felt my great-grandmother with me through really hard times. My great-grandmother was a singer and there was no other singers in my family. And so I've always felt connected to her. I've never met her, but I felt her presence. I don't know how to explain the feeling. I don't see her or hear her. I just know she's there. Even times before I'm going to go on stage and I'm nervous I felt my great-grandma with me. You know, she's a singer so she knows what it's like to to step on a stage and be nervous.  During the birth of my last baby, it was a really traumatic experience where we almost lost her, and it was bad enough that even my life was in danger. I was, I had to be sedated for that one. Waking up and kind of slowly opening my eyes, I could see my husband and I could see my mom in the room, but the room felt full of people. And I just kind of sat there thinking, "Who else is here?" And the room was just filled with love, a bigger love than can be contained in just the two people that were there. And, even from that moment, I've always felt like my youngest, Claire, belongs to a collective group of people. I just get to be her, her mom here.  Having had those experiences, I had an expectation that I would have the same experiences with my mom. And my patriarchal blessing even talks about angels and that the presence of my loved ones will be very important to me in my life. I expected my mom to come and visit me just the way I had been visited in the past. I thought that she won't feel very far away. She'll always feel close. What added to that belief was that a couple years before my mom passed away, I had a very strong impression to study angels, not just because they were mentioned in my patriarchal blessing, but I was really intrigued with the idea of them. So I studied scriptures and talks and books and I went to the temple, they're talked about all over in the temple. I would read experiences that people have had, and I just really gained a huge testimony in their existence and in their roles in our lives. All of these things led me to believe and to expect that my mom would come to me in certain ways, and I will feel her presence on a regular basis. But I haven't. I haven't felt my mom since she's passed. It's been a year and a half, and I had all these expectations. Maybe when I was, after the year when I could see more clearly or I wasn't in this fog or during some big life thing that would happen: my daughter's baptism, during my dad getting remarried. Would I feel her that week? And I haven't, I haven't felt her. That's been difficult. It's been hard because I have expectations. And I know what it feels like and I know it's possible. So why, why not my mom? Why my great-grandma, why people that I don't know? Why can I feel angels but not my mom? Why does it talk about my patriarchal blessing how important they'll be in my life, but the one who's the most important feels silent? So the questioning did come to a point where I, I was angry. And it's interesting because, throughout the entire process, I never felt angry at God. I know death is a part of this experience. I saw His hand in all the service and all the love that we were given. I even looked back and saw all the ways He actually prepared us for her passing. I was never mad at God. I really wasn't, until one night I really wanted to talk to my mom, and I don't even remember, honestly, what it was about. And I remember praying out loud and I was in the car driving and I was praying out loud. And I asked him, "Why? Why have you let me have all these experiences and gained such a testimony of angels and their existence and their involvement, how close they are. And I've been led to so much study and pondering and praying about the subject of angels. Why have you not let me feel my mom?" And it was a really clear moment, a really clear answer that came to me and it's, I don't have a lot of those in my life. I have seen the Lord's hand and the Spirit has spoken to me, but this is one of those clear like, "I hear the words. I'm sitting on your shoulder in your ear." And He said, "I had to come to that knowledge, I had to study all of this so that you would know she was there even when you don't feel her."  Everything kind of turned at that point, my vision shifted a little bit. I started to look for my mom in different ways. It's interesting because I still, still haven't felt my mom the way I felt my great-grandma. But I see my mom through the actions of other people. Right when she died, a sweet friend did a painting for me. And she said, "I felt like somebody took my hand and the paintbrush and painted this," and had a painting out in 10 minutes. I wish like everybody can see this painting. It's a painting of an angel, which she didn't know that that's my love. You know, I have an angel wall in my office and the colors that she used were all the same colors on my wall and the angel looked just like my mom. Big hair, you know, and she's never met my mom.  It was just really interesting that I thought, "Oh, that's my mom. She knows I love angels, of course." In fact, even at Christmas time, this gal in my neighborhood, she had a very strong impression for two weeks, "You need to buy Brooke an angel." And she kept saying, "Why? I don't even know Brooke that well. That's gonna look so weird." And so she's like, "I'll just buy her a candle or something like that." She bought something else. But it kept coming, "No, buy her an angel. Buy her an angel." So she's like, "I finally just bought you an angel. I'm so, I don't even know why." She doesn't know that I have this love of angels.  You know, I got a letter, this beautiful letter from a friend that said, "Was listening to your song and your mom was there with me and this is what she told me and this is what she wants me to tell you." And it was a really beautiful moment for my friend that became a really beautiful moment for me. We were both blessed from this, you know, and that's how my mom operates. That's what she, that totally sounds like my mom. My mom works in heaven the same way she works on Earth. She works with other people a lot and I, it's interesting because I think she'll do something to bless somebody who will then turn and tell me so that we kind of both get blessed. So it's like a two birds with one stone kind of a thing you know, she just, she knows she can bless two people with one action. So that's what she's gonna do. And it makes sense to me that she's going to do the same things in heaven that she did here on Earth. They don't change, you know. I still want to feel her all the time. I think I'll always miss her and there will always be moments where I'm just kind of, maybe angry is not the right word, but sad. Sad she's not here with me. It's been interesting to see the compassion that's grown and how much I've learned to lean on Heavenly Father instead. Like, I had an experience one night. I was praying and telling Heavenly Father I was frustrated I couldn't talk to my mom about my, my mothering. My mom was really good at telling me I was doing a good job. I can't talk to my friends about that because we're all, everybody's in the trenches together. We all think we're a horrible mom. All of us think we're ruining our kids. But my mom was out of the trenches and could tell me from a different perspective I was doing okay. And I remember praying and saying, "I miss my mom being here to tell me I'm doing a good job. And the Spirit said, "Well, I can tell you you're doing a good job." I thought, "Oh, of course, why don't I just go to Christ? Why don't I tell Him everything?" And honestly, it's been interesting because I've never before relied so much on Him, even as being a connection to my mom. I can't tell you how often I've said in a prayer, "Will you please tell my mom I love her?" And how often the Spirit has said to me, "She knows." So even though I can't feel my mom, or even sometimes I don't know if she hears what I was saying, He does. Christ knows how I feel. He knows what I'm saying. He hears my thoughts. And if there's something that my mom needs to know, He'll make sure it happens. And I trust that. KaRyn (52:36) That was Brooke. Brooke Stone is one-third of the music group Mercy River, and she first shared part of this story at Time Out for Women where I heard it and realized that it had to be a part of this episode.  We celebrate heavenly visitation when it happens because in these latter days, we do believe in angels. We believe in a realm beyond this one, but we also believe as with any friends form of divine communication, that heavenly visitation is only one way that God reaches us in our need. And just like Brooke said, how we receive that revelation is no indication of our goodness or lack of goodness. We may long for and work for and study and seek for angels only to find that God needs us to hear His message a different way at a different time.  Like Brooke, I don't understand the whys of revelation. I don't understand why one time it's an angel and the next time it's a feeling and the next time it's silence. But I do know that someday it's going to all make sense. And I hold onto that day with hope that I'll rejoice in my heavenly, "Aha," moment.  One thing that is clear from our stories today is that the work of angels is always beautifully related to the work of discipleship. As I was sitting in the Conference Center listening to what felt like a choir of angels heralding the birth of the Savior with those tears for my grandma falling freely, I heard the lyrics from the chorus of the song "Angels among Us," and I felt something shifted in me. I felt a new understanding beginning. Here's a little piece of that song for you.   Oh, I believe there are Angels Among Us, Sent down to us from somewhere up above.  They come to you and me in our darkest hours To show us how to live To teach us how to give   To guide us with a light of love.     That guiding light of love that the song speaks about? Well, that light was the guiding force for Matt and the families he taught as a missionary. It was the homing beacon for Melissa as she found her place in the family of Christ. It was the knock at the door for Cheryl who just needed to know that she was known. And it was the gentle reminder for Brooke that even in her grief and her loss and her longing for comfort, He can be the one to tell her she's getting it right, that she's not alone, and that she's got back up. Our angels, whether we feel them or not, will always show up. And they will always point us towards the true light of all love, our Savior, Jesus Christ. So as we feel inspired to, as Elder Holland suggested speak of and believe in and bear testimony of the ministry of angels more than we sometimes do, we can trust that those inspired expressions will also bear witness of Him and His holy life and His holy work. That's it for this episode of This Is the Gospel. Thanks for joining us today. And thank you to Matt, Melissa, Cheryl, and Brooke for allowing us to help tell their stories of divine communication.  We'll have so many good things in the show notes for this episode, you guys, so many good things. You really, really want to go there. We're going to have a transcript of the episode along with some pictures and we will have a link to the Tabernacle Choir's Angels among Us album, which is so beautiful and it has that song that we played from Kristin Chenoweth and the choir.  You can also follow us at @thisisthegospel_podcast on Instagram and Facebook to get more about the podcasts and about this episode. All of our stories on the podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a great story about your experience living the gospel of Jesus Christ, well guess what? we have a pitch line and we want to hear from you. Leave us a short three-minute story pitch at 515-519-6179. We're still looking for some stories for season two, so don't hesitate to call and leave that message. You can find out what themes we're working on right now by following us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast.  Don't forget to tell us about your experience with this podcast. Take the time to leave a review on the Apple podcast app or on Bookshelf PLUS+ app from Deseret Book. We really do appreciate it. We love to hear your thoughts about the episodes, about the podcast as a whole, and it really does help more people to find our stories.  This episode was produced by me, KaRyn Lay, with story producing and editing by Katie Lambert and Kelly Campbell. It was scored, mixed, and mastered by Mix at 6 Studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at ldsliving.com/podcasts. Have a beautiful week.

Stories in this episode: An extraordinary lesson from her family history helps Sister Linda K. Burton find the right words to minister to the women of the Relief Society when she is called as president; Deserey is called to be the Family History specialist in her single adult ward and receives a special spiritual confirmation from her father beyond the veil about the value of her calling.

Change is an exciting and inevitable part of our lives as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In this episode, Christie shares her story of being sent with her family on a work assignment to Senegal West Africa where they discovered that being part of the growing church means making room for personal spiritual growth and flexibility and trusting in God’s purposes.

Stories in this episode: A last ditch quidditch match in the MTC brings Rylan and Diana together years later when they reconnect at the temple; Tyler’s side hustle as a singing telegram puts him in the unique position to find real love; Sarah’s wild dream about a flying kite proves the key to her courage when love comes in an unexpected way; Friendship takes a turn toward romance on a disastrous road trip for Melea and Dean.

Ashley and Alo Moli always imagined themselves with a large family but struggled with devastating infertility. Brittany and her 5 siblings prayed every night in their group foster home for parents who could love and care for them. A miraculous phone call from Alo’s brother set them all on a surprising path that showed them how God has been and always would be working behind the scenes of our pain to bring us joy.

Todd was far from religious or even spiritual when he started meeting weekly with a Latter-day Saint bishop in search of a new life beyond his addictions. What happened over the next four years, including an inspired trip to a roadside lemonade stand, changed the course of his life in real and lasting ways.

Stories in this episode: A missionary in Guatemala learns that Christmas sometimes means emptying buckets; When Christmas service gets real, a surly teen has a change of heart; Making amends brings a recovering addict and his family closer to the real spirit of the season; Newlyweds with nothing to give discover the secret to a full and rich Christmas.  

When Brittani McLeod’s job led her to a remote village in the deserts of Morocco, she thought she would have to leave behind everything familiar. She didn’t expect the miraculous ways that her Heavenly Father would remind her that He is EVERYWHERE.

In this episode, Isaac Thomas shares the story of how he gained a testimony and joined the church in 1976 at a time when he, as a black man, could not receive the priesthood. He recounts the heartbreak and joy he found as he faithfully served and waited for a revelation that would restore the Priesthood to every worthy male member of the Church.

The stories we tell matter. They can build our faith, help us empathize with others, demonstrate the true power of God in our lives, and help lead us to Christ. This Is the Gospel, a new storytelling podcast from LDS Living, collects and shares personal stories that illustrate the challenges and triumphs of living in the latter days.

Stories in this episode: A trip to the temple reveals the six words that help Danielle remember who she is to God; Two strangers on rollerblades give Robyn the miraculous answer to her prayers; A moment of pure revelation helps Spencer navigate a painful divorce with grace.

1 Corinthians 15:1–17

1 Corinthians 15:1–17

Genesis 1:1

Genesis 1:1

In this episode, we talk through back to school confessionals of our listeners.MENTIONSPre-order Knox’s Book: The Wondering YearsThe Popcast Live! Presented by Milk and Honey Tees with Sophie Hudson and Melanie Shankle [use code GOLDEN at checkout for a special discount].BONUS SEGMENTOur Patreon supporters can get full access to this week’s Cinema Sidepiece on How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days and The More You Know news segment. Become a partner.THE MORE YOU KNOWBond 25 turnover and not-casting newsPete Davidson’s B-Hole EyesThe Big Bang Theory announces endpointBox Office Check-InGREEN LIGHTSKnox – Books: I’d Rather be Reading by Anne Bogel and This Is The Gospel series by She Reads Truth, Podcast: Origins Chapter 3: “Origins of a Champion: Nick Saban & Alabama’s Crimson Tide”Jamie – Documentaries: John McCain: For Whom the Bell Tolls and Three Identical StrangersSHOW SPONSORSbioClarity: To save 50% off your first routine plus free shipping, go to bioClarity.com and enter code POP.Bombas: To save 20%, visit bombas.com/popcast and enter code POPCAST at checkout.Simple Contacts: To save $20 off your first order of contacts, go to simplecontacts.com/POP20 and enter code POP20 at checkout.Subscribe to Episodes: iTunes | AndroidSubscribe to our Weekly newsletter: http://www.knoxandjamie.com/newsletterFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | FacebookSupport Us: Monthly Donation | One-Time Donation | Swag

This Is The Gospel - 3-27-2016 Easter Sunday - 1 Cor 15.1 - 20 by Trinity Hinsdale