Podcasts about pacific islanders

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express Host Miko Lee speaks with spouses of detained refugees. We hear about the similarities and challenges of Hmong and Nepali speaking Bhutanese refugees. We also speak with Asian Law Caucus' Aisa Villarosa about the ongoing campaigns for freedom that ALC has been leading along with a host of other community based organizations. Join us: November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki's GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.     We Belong! Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express.This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we're talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities.We originally recorded this episode a month ago, and today is October 29th. 2025 and I have with me Aisa Villarosa a lawyer with Asian Law Caucus, giving us an update in the cases that we're talking about. Welcome Aisa Apex Express. Aisa Villarosa: Thanks so much, Miko. Miko Lee: Tonight we're gonna be talking with two spouses of detained folks. One is a Nepali speaking Bhutanese community member, and the other is Hmong community member. In the time since we recorded this, there has been a big update with Lue Young's case, and I wonder if you could provide us with that update. Aisa Villarosa: Miko since we last spoke, due to some really hard fought campaigning, both behind the scenes and drawing upon allies across Michigan and really across the country. Lue Yang, received a successful pardon from Governor Gretchen Whitmer. We actually received word shortly before Lue Yang was set to be placed on a very large deportation flight. Once we got word of the pardon, it was off to the races for the legal team to quickly draft some emergency motions for Lue Yang and to realize the power of the pardon before the deportation. Miko Lee: Can we back up for a moment and give for an audience a sense of what that means? Lue Young was incarcerated at a detention facility, which Trump has called the FedEx of detention facilities in, Louisana, and explain to us what happened to him and the other members that were suddenly pulled together onto an airplane. Aisa Villarosa: When these removal flights happen, there's so much confusion, there's so much fear that families undergo, and often it's due to the perseverance of the families that we honestly even know where folks are. Shortly before what we call final staging happens, someone is moved from, in Lue's case, a facility in Michigan to a facility like Alexandria in Louisiana where the planes do take off  from. Families typically look up their loved one on something called the “ice detainee locator.” What's challenging is when final staging starts. Often that person completely disappears from the detainee locator or information gets a bit scrambled. Because ICE has a bit of a sealed box as far as even telling families where, their loved one is. Families are either left to guess or rely on each other. So for Lue Yang and the pardon what is critical for folks to know is that as powerful, as rare as a pardon is, I can't stress how extraordinary this is in these very difficult times. A pardon does not instantly, allow someone to say, walk out of an ice facility. There's, numerous legal filings that need to happen. That is why , the team was so up against the clock. Miko Lee: So let's break this down a little bit around a pardon. What does a pardon mean in our current system? Because as a lay person, you think, oh, they're pardoned. That means they're free and they can go home and be with their family. Tell us a little bit about what a pardon means in our legal system right now. Aisa Villarosa: A pardon is different from a criminal expungement, which folks might be familiar with. In Lue's case, for example, when Lue was younger, he successfully expunged this record, in criminal court. The challenge is that immigration court, is basically the entity that issues something called a “final order of removal.” This document, is basically what powers deportation for folks. An expungement does not get at the final removal order. However, a pardon has that more direct link. The pardon has the weight of what we call “vacating a conviction.” To explain more legalese and hopefully folks can stay with me. A final order of removal is an immigration court order document where , it gives ice the power to do all these deportations We're seeing for the refugee community that Lue Yang belongs to. Often these are quite old orders, and so sometimes a loved one might be detained and they might not even realize that they have a criminal conviction or a final order of removal. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking that down. So we described how he was pulled off the plane that was going for his deportation. Tell us where Lue is at right now. What is happening with his case? Aisa Villarosa: The call to action very much remains what it has been, which is we're calling to bring Lue home. At the moment, Lue is in a facility in Louisiana. Our hope is that Lue can return to Michigan. There is also a call to release Lue on a supervised release. The other component of the legal journey for Lue is something called a motion to reopen. Basically this is how the full weight of the pardon is realized. The motion to reopen calls on the Board of Immigration Appeals to reopen Lue's case, because years ago he got that final removal order, so when someone gets that order, typically their immigration case is closed. This petition says, Hey, he got a pardon. Please reopen Lue's case because the underlying conviction that led to the final removal order. Has been pardoned, right? We are hoping that this motion to reopen will be heard in front of the Board of Immigration Appeals, that we can get a great result and that as the campaign calls for that, Lue can come home. Miko Lee: I know lawyers like you are doing incredible work around the scenes. You did not sleep for two days, filing paperwork to be able to make sure that Lue was pulled off that plane. But what can regular people, what can our audience do to get involved right now? Aisa Villarosa: There's myriad actions along this really terrible deportation pipeline. We're seeing that folks who might not have, any deep knowledge of the immigration system can still be so impactful. We have partners in LA in the faith community and they've started working with community organizations to do things like accompaniment, which is, joining community members like Lue, who often have these ice check-ins. As folks have seen on the news, these check-ins can be really risky because that is where ice arrests can happen. If someone misses their ice check-in, typically that means that a warrant is issued, that immigration forces can come after you. In these cases, community members, particularly folks who are US citizens, accompaniment can be a great way to dig in to show up for our immigrant and refugee siblings. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking down how folks can get involved. It's so important right now in a time where we feel so utterly helpless to be able to make change. Now we're gonna go back to listen to our interview that is with the two spouses, Tika, Basnet, and Ann Vue, and also our current guest, Aisa Villarosa Tika and Ann they're part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, for having me on. We are Hmong. We helped Americans during the Vietnam War. In Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. Because we're indigenous and we are in the mountains they were able to speak with us and use us. Our Hmong, helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, so that they can make it back home. That is our contribution to the American people. When we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Our legacy of helping Americans with the war. that is who we are and what we bring to America. That's who I am. I'm actually the first generation Hmong American. I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. They came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship. We were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. My husband also born in Nepal in a refugee camp. Miko Lee: Thank you. Aisa, I'm gonna ask the same question for you Aisa, that works at Asian Law Caucus. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Aisa Villarosa: So much love to you, Miko and to you Ann and Tika for being here today. I just am, I'm so honored. My name is Aisa and I carry the love and, Maki Baka spirit of Filipino Americans both in my family across the diaspora. A little bit about the Filipino American story. We came to the United States as part of the colonial machine. The first Filipinos were brought as part of the Spanish Gallian trade. We made California home, parts of Lueisiana home, and it's quite a contrast to a lot of the sort of model minority seduction that many of my people, and myself as a younger person tended to fall into that if we kept our heads down, if we were quiet, we would be left alone. I'm struck because at this moment of just unprecedented government attacks, so many of our communities have this story where someone somewhere said to us, yeah, just keep your head down and it'll be fine. We're seeing the exact opposite, that this is the time to really use our voices, both individually and as one. I'm also an artist and try to infuse that into my work in fighting government systems. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I will say I'm Miko. I am fifth generation Chinese American. I grew up knowing that my family was full of fighters that built the railroads, worked in the gold mines in laundromats and restaurants, and my parents walked with Dr. King and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, and I was raised in a family of social justice activists. I feel like our legacy is to continue that work and to fight for the rights of our peoples. I'm so honored to have both of all three of you powerful women join me today. As I was saying in the beginning, Tika and Anne are sadly a part of this club nobody wants to be a part of with the sudden, unexpected, harmful detentions of both of your husbands. I wonder if you can each just share the story about what happened and how you first found out about your husband being detained. Let's start with you Tika. Tika Basnet: My husband got his removal in 2014 when he was just 17 years old, high school student going from school to home. He's a teenager and with his friend, they were playing around and they wanna go home really fast. They just cross from private property. That is where someone saw and call 9 1 1. We came from the culture that we love to go people home , walking around, playing around. My husband came here in 2011. The incident happened on 2013. He just, came here without knowing culture, without knowing languages, So he has no idea. So when somebody called 9 1 1, he could not explain what happened. First of all, English is his second language, he was barely here without knowing rules and regulation, without knowing culture. The police took him to jail, gave a lot of charges. My husband doesn't know what are those charges? At that time, nobody explained, this is the three charges you got, and this could lead to deportation. He feel guilty without knowing those charges. He trusts [00:14:00] Nepali translate guy, and he told my husband, if you don't say I'm guilty, you will end up in prison for 20 to 25 years, but if you say I'm guilty, you'll go home. My husband said, guilty. At that time, neither criminal lawyer told my husband, if you say I'm guilty, you'll end up getting deport. Deport to the country that you are you never born. Deport To the country, you doesn't even speak their language. The lawyer did not explain my husband you will not gonna get your green card. You cannot apply your citizenship in your life. If those things the lawyer told my husband at that time, he will never gonna say, I am guilty to the crime that he did not even commit. When they tried to deport my husband back then, Bhutan say, he's not my citizenship, he's not from my country, We don't know this guy. He's not belongs to here. When US Embassy reach out to, Nepal, do you know this guy? They told, ICE no, we don't know this guy, like he's not belongs here. The ICE officer, told my husband, we can let you go, you need to come here, like order of supervision every three months, every six months, whenever we call you. It been 11 years. My husband is following rules and regulation. He never did any violation after that. He got married, he has a life, he pay taxes. He was taking care of his family and in 11 years he was doing everything. In 2025 for the first time they target Bhutanese Nepali community. I knew that this is the last time I'm gonna see my husband. I broke down. When they detained my husband in April 8, I was eight months pregnant. We dream a lot of things we are gonna take care of our daughter. We are gonna buy home, we are gonna work, we are gonna give her the life that we, I'm sorry. Miko Lee: Totally. Okay. Tika Basnet: I never thought like Bhutanese community can, like deport. Like my parent already go through this trauma, when Bhutan throw them away due to ethnic cleansing and same thing happening to us. It is unbelievable. I cannot believe that, we're going through this again and I don't know when this gonna be stopped. I don't know whether like my husband gonna come home. It is been five month and I really want my husband back. My daughter is, three month old. She need her dad in life 'cause I cannot provide everything by myself. My husband is the main provider for her aging parent. 'cause even now they cannot pay bills. I'm fighting for my husband case and I want my husband back. He deserve second chance because if you see his record is clean, like for one incident that happened like 12 years ago, that cannot define my husband. I cannot believe that my husband is able to get deport to the country that doesn't even accept. I don't know whether he gonna get killed. Whether he gonna disappear, I don't know what will happen to him. I don't know if it is last time I'm gonna see him. Miko Lee: Tika, thank you so much for sharing your story. Just to recap really briefly, your husband, Mohan Karki when he was a teenager, newly arrived in the country, was leaving high school, walked with his friends through a backyard and was racially profiled. The neighbor called police because he was trespassing on property. He was born at a refugee camp. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: There was not property that was like person's property on that refugee camp. So that whole concept of walking across somebody's land was something he was not aware of. He had an interpreter that did not give correct information. And so he signed something, including a deportation order, that he wasn't even aware of until recently when he was put into detention. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Yes. Miko Lee: Right now he's in detention. You live in Ohio, but he's in detention in Michigan, right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: Okay, Tika, let's talk about Mohans case and what's happening. He's held in detention right now in a detention facility in Michigan. What is going on with his case? Tika Basnet: His criminal attorney file, a Motion to Redeem asking BIA to send that, case back to Georgia. His case, that happened in 2013. Our attorney just submit documentation where he's asking to release my husband because it'd been five month. He's not risk to the community. He's not risk to the flight 'cause he doesn't have no one in Bhutan. He doesn't have no one in Nepal. All family is in here. His community love him ,he has family that loves him. We also get lot of documentations as a proof telling ICE that my husband is not risk to the community or to the flight. Miko Lee: Thank you. He has a a four month old baby that he has yet to meet. So that is a powerful reason to stay. As Tikas pointing out, the lawyer just submitted documentation along with 50 letters of support from the community from employers, from family members, all saying why he should stay in this country. Thank you so much for sharing. Anne, i'm wondering if you could share about what happened to your husband. He was also born in a refugee camp, right? Ann Vue: Lue was born in Nangkai, Thailand refugee camp in 1978. In1979 his parents and him and his older brother Granted urgent humanitarian reasons for or for public benefit. They made it to America right before Halloween. The early nineties, me even being the first generation American here, racism played a lot. We all went through that piece and our parents not speaking English at the same time, they were going to school themselves so that they can learn our English language, . They weren't able to teach us growing up. We had to fend for ourselves. I would say my husband he went out with some friends. He did not commit the crime. But of course now that is brought back to him, he understood about his particular case is second attempt, home invasion. Nobody was harmed. He was in the vehicle, in the backseat when he was caught. He didn't wanna partake, but he didn't wanna stop them either 'cause to him it was like, if I don't partake, then I have nothing to do with it. . Because if I do, then they might not be my friends anymore. It's just a part of growing up as a youth. Because he was there, and then would receive a court appointed attorney, and then provide it very similar to Tika's too. Had an interpreter, that was explaining to them, was provided bad legal advice. He had no knowledge about how this would impact his immigration status. It was advised by their attorney, take the plea it's easier, and you probably serve less than a year. You'll be out, you'll only be in the county jail anyways 'cause you didn't really commit the crime and technically it should have been a misdemeanor. But because you're an accomplice, that kind of falls under this category. So he took the plea, he served 10 months in a county jail. He actually was released for good behavior. He even finished his probation soon because he paid all of his stuff off. He even finished a youth advocate program for anybody that committed crimes between the age of 18 to 21. I just saw this form the other day and I was reading it and it talks about, the one thing about our parents, experiencing the war and coming to America, they don't talk about it. A lot of us are from communist countries. We are very afraid to voice our voices, because someone can take action. Our parents never talked about it. I read what he wrote to his, youth coordinator, he felt so bad about what he did. He created disappointment for his parents and he understands, there are sacrifices that got us here to America. He literally wrote all of this down, i'm going to be a better person. I'm going to make my parents proud now that I understand their sacrifices. They asked him, ” what was your upbringing like?” He wrote, “poor” and the coordinator wrote on the bottom of his comments said, “Lue is remorseful for what has happened and he wants to be a better person. I have no other questions. The training is complete.” He doesn't need any further, support and believes that he will move forward to be a better person. That's literally what they wrote on the document. Then fast forwarding to 1999 that's when, immigration showed up at his house. Him and I would meet in 2000, and then we'd be married in 2001. We'd celebrate. Almost 24 and a half years of marriage. We did appeal his case in the humanitarian piece of what this meant for Lue during the time where we all fled the country. Once the monks were declared enemy of the state by the LDR in Laos, we fled. It's well documented that there was a little bit over 400,000 of us there right after the genocide and the killings of the Hmong there was probably less than 45,000 of us left. Once we understood a lot of that, we wanted to do better. We wanted to really service our community. We appealed the case. The case was then denied in his appeal letters, general Vink Powell, which led the Hmongs during the war, even had a letter where he, also pled why Hmongs need to stay here in America. And why we need to bring the rest of our people to this country. The reality is our whole family, Lue's whole family was wiped out. We don't have anybody, Lue doesn't have anyone. That goes to Tika's thing too. There's nobody there. Going back to the case once it was denied in 2002. He then was forced to reach out to the embassy and was denied, entry into Thailand 'cause that's where he was born. We're stateless too, just like Tikas husband. We were denied by Thailand. We were denied by Laos stating that we are not a citizen of theirs. They do not allow or welcome any sort of entry. In 2006, they actually took his green card and then we again were denied. In 2008 we were denied a third time and that's when his immigration officer was like, just move on and start your life. Laos and Thailand, will never sign a repatriation act with America because of you guys, because of the Hmong people, what you guys have done to their country, making it the most bombed country during the war without even being a part of the war. They will never allow you guys back. So we were like, okay. So we moved forward. Then in 2014, this immigration officer, which we was doing yearly checkups at this time, was like, Hey go get your citizenship, get your green card. They're like you're doing so good. You probably could have a chance to get it. We moved forward to apply for citizenship and for the green card. We were denied in 2015 and we know how expensive this is. You pay $10,000 outright, you don't get that money back. You just have to go at it again. We decided that, we're gonna get his case expunged, and we got his case expunged in 2018. No questions asked. It was very straightforward. Once it was expunged, we continued with our [00:26:00] lives. Very involved in the community. We had six kids . This year we even called his immigration officer and he was like, “Hey, don't worry about it, Lue, we're moving you over to Grand Rapids and you should be fine. Just make sure that you stay outta trouble, continue to follow your stock.” I think what triggered it was when we applied for his work permit in April. He always meets his immigration officer at the end of the year, and we renewed his work permit is what triggered it. The money was cashed out, everything the checks went through while we were receiving that, he was gonna be here, everything was gonna be fine. Then July 15th he was detained at work, six 30 in the morning, the detained officer they told him they know who he is to the community, so they have to do it this way because they don't want any problems. They don't want media, they don't want reporters. He did ask them because he rode his motorcycle for some weird reason. He has not taken his bike out, his motorcycle out in the last three years. But for some reason that night he was like, I just wanna take my bike. So he took his bike that night and when ICE told him, do you have somebody come get your bike? You need to call somebody to come get your bike. He was like, nobody in my family rides motorcycles. I don't have anyone to come get my bike. I think there was some empathy and compassion for him. My husband was like, can I just take my bike back? I've got six kids. I've got my grandma at home and my parents are also at my house right now. I just wanna see them and wanna take my bike back. They asked him, “if we let you go, please don't run.” They followed my husband home and my husband literally called me at 6 37 in the morning and he was like, Hey, ICE is, here they got me. I'm like, “what? What's going on?” It was just so surreal. I was so shocked. It's a 30 minute drive. When he got there, they were already officers, packed tight in our driveway. We live in the country. There were like five or six cop cars there too. We had to walk about half a mile down to go see him. They wouldn't allow him to enter where our home was. The officer told, my husband, told him that they're so sorry. They have to do it this way. They know who he is. They don't want any problems, they don't want any reports in media out here. I will say my experience was a little bit different from others. They did take their mask off when they took him in, they were respectful. They even, talk to my two older boys like, Hey, you guys have money. I could put the money in your dad's account. We're, take him into Grand Rapids, we're gonna process him, and then we're gonna take him to the detention center, which is gonna be in Michigan. They were very open about these steps . My grandma has chronic pulmonary disease stage four. We couldn't haul her fast enough because we only saw him for like maybe a quick minute, and that was it. They did ask us to turn around because they had to take him back and they didn't want our little ones to see them cuffing him. Miko Lee: They actually said, Anne, we don't want any media to be watching this? Ann Vue: I don't want any problems. Miko Lee: Your husband is also quite well known in the Hmong community, right? So probably, they were worried about folks coming out and protesting. Is that, do you think that was the case? Ann Vue: That's what I'm assuming. I don't remember their exact words saying media, but do remember that they didn't want people around, they didn't want to create issues for the community. Because if he would've gotten the letter just like everybody did, which everybody then would receive the letter on Friday, and because my husband is a community leader, he is the Hmong Family Association's president, we restart receiving many, many calls where everybody just wanted to talk to Lue 'cause they needed to know what's going on, how to handle, what to do. At that moment I realized, oh my gosh, they detained my husband first. Then everybody else got a letter. Miko Lee: And the ICE officer that he had been checking in with routinely has he been in touch with him since he was detained? Ann Vue: He hasn't. Miko Lee: So they had different people come in even, 'cause he was the person that said everything's okay, keep going with your life. Ann Vue: Oh yeah. Miko Lee: And so no contact with him whatsoever since the detention? Ann Vue: No. Miko Lee: Okay. Thank you so much. I just wanna point out, for all of our listeners, how many similarities there are in these two cases. In both of these amazing women are here supporting their spouses. Both spouses born in refugee camps. Dealing with intergenerational trauma from families that had to escape ethnic cleansing or involved in a war, came into the United States under, legal properties through refugee resettlement acts, made mistakes as young people, partially due to culture and wanting to fit in. They served their time, they paid their dues. They were racially profiled. They suffered from incredible immigration policy failure with bad advice, with a system that's broken. Now both of them are detained. Not yet deported, but detained. Many of the community members have already been deported and they're facing statelessness. We're seeing this not just with Bhutanese and Hmong folks, but with Mien and Lao and Haitian and El Salvadorian. We could fill in the blank of how many other peoples in other communities are facing this. We also know that these private detention centers where people are being held, are making millions and millions of dollars, and it's connected into our corrupt political system that's in place right now. Aisa, I'm wondering if you could, talk about the case, but also about some of the deals that we think have had to be made with Laos and Bhutan in order for these deportations to even take place. So Aisa from Asian Law Caucus, I'm gonna pass it to you to go over some of the legal ramifications. Aisa Villarosa: Of course, Miko, and thank you for it for the context. There are so many parallels that we as advocates must uplift because this is not the time to be divided. This is the time to build solidarity that we've long known needs to happen. What Miko is referring to is largely something that we've observed around the travel  bans. Earlier this year, right around the time that the Trump administration took hold, there was a draft travel ban list that leaked across a number of media outlets, the Times, et cetera, and the same countries we're talking about today, Bhutan, Laos. These were historically not countries that were subject to sanctions, like the travel ban, and yet here they were. A lot of us were scratching our heads and asking, why is this happening? Our theory, and this is a theory that is now also manifesting in a number of FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act requests that are submitted from Asian Law Caucus to departments like the State Department ice, the Department of Homeland Security. Asking the same question that Tika and Anne are asking, which is, how are these deportations even happening? They were not happening until this year. What very likely happened was a bit of a quid pro quo. So in removing Bhutan, removing Laos from this list where they could be sanctioned as a country, there was likely some backdoor deal that took place between the US State Department and Bhutanese officials and the US officials, where essentially there was some form of an agreement that there would be an acceptance or a supposed acceptance of a certain number of folks from these communities. That is why around March, for the Bhutanese refugee community, for example, we started seeing pickups very similar to Mohan's case, where, many people who had perhaps made some mistakes in their youth or had really old criminal convictions were swept off the streets and thrust into these really rapid deportation proceedings. I don't even know if proceedings is the right word, because there essentially was no proceeding. The Immigration Court is very much a cloaked process. The immigration judge is kind of judge and jury wrapped up together, which is very different than many of us might turn on the TV and see something like Law and order. An immigration court works a very different way where this piece of paper, this final removal order, basically gives ICE a lot of bandwidth to make these deportations happen. However, that doesn't mean we should just accept that this is happening. We know that just basic procedures of fairness are not being met. We know, too that in the case of, for example, the Bhutanese community ICE officers have come to the wrong house. And put a lot of people in fear. So racial profiling was happening even before this recent Supreme Court decision, which essentially now condones racial profiling, as criteria that the ICE can use. I also just wanted to talk about this trend too, we're seeing with so many cases. It happened to Lue, it happened to Mohan, where in someone's underlying criminal court case, maybe they were given a court appointed attorney. In many cases, they were not told of the immigration impacts of, say, taking a plea. There is a Supreme Court case called Padilla versus Kentucky and basically the law shifted such that in many cases there now is a duty for a court appointed public defender to actually talk to folks like Mohan and Lue about the immigration consequences of their plea. So when Tika mentioned that there's something called a post-conviction relief effort for Mohan. That's happening in Georgia. This is very much what that legal defense looks like, where, an expert attorney will look at that very old court record, see if those rights were violated, and also talk to Mohan and make sure did that violation happen and is that grounds for reopening an immigration case. For Lue, there is a really mighty pardoning campaign that's brewing in the state of Michigan. So in Michigan, governor Gretchen Whitmer does have the authority to in some cases expedite a pardon in process. Unfortunately in the immigration arena the expungement does not have that same weight as say a vacating, or a motion to vacate that criminal record. So it's super frustrating because, so much of this turns ethically, morally on- do we, as people believe in second chances, and I know most people do, and yet here we are really. Based on a technicality. I also just want to name too that Lue as a person is both a natural organizer and he is a spiritual guide of his community. So something that many folks don't know is because of so much of the trauma that Anne talked about, both from, supporting the Americans during the Secret War, many Hmong folks who came to the States, they actually in some cases died in their sleep because of this, almost unexplained weight of the trauma. It almost underscores the importance of Lue, not just to his family, but this family is a collective family. He's both a mentor for so many, he's a spiritual guide for so many. Him being away from his family, away from community, it's like a double, triple wound. for Mohan, I'd love to uplift this memory I have of a moment in June when Tika gave us a call, and at that point, Mohan had called Tika and said, they're taking me, I'm being deported. At that point, they were removing Mohan from the ICE facility in Butler, Ohio and transporting him to the Detroit airport or that deportation to Bhutan. Tika was forced to essentially delay her childbirth. It was very much in the range of when she was due to give birth to their daughter. But because the clock was ticking, Tika drove to Butler, literally begged for Mohans life as our organizing and advocacy and legal team was trying to get together this emergency stay of deportation. That fortunately came through at the 11th hour. But the fact that Mohan remains in this facility in St. Clair, Michigan, that he's never held his daughter is unacceptable, is ridicuLues. I think so much of these two cases almost, this invisible brotherhood of pain that I know Ann has talked to me about that. Because Lue right now has been in a couple facilities. He is organizing, he's doing his thing and actually supporting folks while also just trying to keep himself well, which is no easy feat to do in so many of these facilities. Especially because, in Alexandria, for example, which is a facility in Louisiana. We know that folks are sleeping on cement floors. We know that folks are not being fed, that there's a lot of human rights violations going on. Here is Lue still continuing to use his voice and try to advocate for the folks around him. Miko Lee: Aisa thank you so much for putting that into context, and we'll put links in the show notes for how folks can get involved in both of these cases. One is, Rising Voices call to action for Lue. We encourage folks to do that. In terms of Mohan, there's a GoFundMe to help support Tika and the immense lawyer fees, and also a letter writing campaign to the ICE director Kevin Roff, to try and release Mohan and Lue. These are really important things that are happening in our community, and thank you for being out there. Thank you for talking and sharing your stories. We really appreciate you. And also, just briefly, I'd love us for us to talk for a minute about how many folks in our Asian American communities, we don't wanna talk about mistakes that we have made in the past because we might consider that shameful. And therefore, in both of these communities, when we started organizing, it was really hard at first to find people to come forth and share their stories. So I wonder if both of you can give voice to a little about that, the power you found in yourself to be able to come forward and speak about this, even though some other folks in the community might not feel comfortable or strong enough to be able to talk. Tika, can you speak to that? Tika Basnet: What makes me really strong, and I wanna see that my husband case is because he was 17, people can make mistake and from those mistake, if people are learning. Americans should consider, 'cause my husband did make mistake and I wish that time he knew the rules and regulation. I wish somebody taught him that he's not supposed to go somebody else property, around in backyard. I wish he was been in the United States like more than , one and a half year. I wish, if he was like more than two years, three years. I think that time he, from high school, he could learn. He's not supposed to go there. He was just been in the United States like one and a half year just going to high school. Nobody taught him. His parent doesn't even speak English. Until now, they doesn't even speak, like nobody in our community knew rules and regulation. He doesn't have guide, mentor to taught him like, and even though he did make mistake and he's really sorry, and from those mistake learning a lot, and he never get into trouble, after 11 years, he was clean, he work, he pay taxes. That is the reason that I really wanna come forward. People can make mistake, but learning from those mistake that changed people life. The reason that I'm coming forward is because organization like Asian Law Caucus, ARU, and, Miko, a lot of people helped me. They taught me like people can make mistake and, we shouldn't be same. I really wanna give example to my daughter, that, you are fighting for justice and you shouldn't fear. What is right is right. What is wrong is wrong. But if somebody's make mistake and they are not, doing that mistake again, I think the people can get a second chance. My husband deserves second chance. He's 30 years old. He has a family, he has a wife, children and he deserved to be here. We came here legally, my husband came here. Legally, we, promise that we'll get home and this is our home. We wanna stay here and I really want my husband be home soon so he can play with her daughter to play with his daughter. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Tika. Ann I wonder if you could talk to the strength that it takes for you to come forward and speak about your husband and your family. Ann Vue: I'm a community leader with my husband. There was a moment when he was first detained where I was in complete silence. I was so shocked. It took my attorney, Nancy, just talking to me about it. Of course, back to what Aisa said earlier in our communities, we're afraid. I was so scared. I didn't know what to do. It took me visiting my husband in Baldwin and letting him know that, hey, a bunch of community members are now reaching out. And that's that. At that moment, he was like, you have to say something. You have to say something you have to make noise because you have a, 50% chance, right? We have a 50 50 chance. 50%. They're gonna send me 50%. You're gonna feel bad if you don't say anything, right? 50 here, 50 there. It doesn't matter. But a hundred percent regret if you don't say something. I thought about it and he was like, well, go out there, be my voice. He's like, you've always been my voice. You got this right. I didn't say no to Nancy. 'cause she really wanted to talk to our rep Mai you know about this. Mai and I are pretty close too. , I just knew if I said anything, Mai's gonna be like mm-hmm. All the way. I just let Nancy help me, and my most vulnerable time. I'm glad that she did. I'm glad that we did get this out. It is the most important thing for us. what keeps me going is all of those that have been impacted by this, from people like Tika. I have many, I call 'em sisters. We're all in a lot of these group chats together. They've been also keeping me going. Our amazing team of attorneys and everybody just strategizing through this unprecedented time. It's really everyone's voices. I get to talk to Lue daily. It's definitely not cheap, but he gets to share each story of each person. I believe that everybody has a story and they might not be as lucky as maybe Tika or my husband, but at least now I have their story. I will be their voice. I will tell each person's story, each name, each alien number that I track down, my husband's even literally learned how to count in Spanish, just so he can give them like my phone number in Spanish in case they need to call an emergency. Oh, I'm be getting a lot of calls. that is what keeps me going because I think that Tika and I and many others are, hoping that there is going to be a better day, a brighter day. I hope that everyone can see that, our children are American, right? Our children, they deserve to have their fathers and their mothers. They deserve to grow with these parents. And with that being said, the most important thing to me is they're not just bystanders. They're literally the future of America. I don't want them growing up with trauma, with trying to ask me questions “well mom, if we're refugees and we helped, Americans as allies, and we come to this country, why is this payback like this?” There's a moral obligation that has to be there and they're gonna grow up and they're gonna be trauma by this. I've got children right now that's been talking about joining the National Guard. It speaks volume about what happens to my husband. He's championed the Hmong, Michigan Special Gorilla unit, the Hmong veterans here in the last two years, really  with helping them through resolutions, tributes, making sure that they have things, that they are out there, that people now know them, they are finally recognized. This puts my husband at great danger by sending him back, because now he's championed the veterans here. He celebrates our veterans here. So it's a moral obligation. I hope that, and this is to every child, I hope that every child, they deserve their father's presence. There are many people who don't even have their father's presence and they wish their fathers were around. Our fathers wanna be around. I hope that our daughter, I only have one daughter too, that someday they can, their fathers can be a part of their, the American culture. I hope that we get that opportunity and I hope that somebody stop being scared, but turn around and help us. Help us. We came here legally, minor stuff, long decade old. This detainment has been worse than when he did time back in 1997. I just hope that somebody hears our podcast, Miko. Thank you. Aisa and Tika. And they turn and they have some compassion and help us because this is the tone that we're setting for the future of our American children. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. Tika, you wanna add? Tika Basnet: Yes, I really wanna talk about what kind of husband Mohan is. Even though like he detained for five month I put lot of money in his account and there was one guy, his family cannot support him. For me, it is really hard. I'm not working. But even my husband called me you don't need to put like money in my account, but can you please can you please put money in his account? He did not eat food. His family did not have money. I can survive without eating food. I think his story is really touching me. My husband was crying listening to that guy story in detention center and then I did put like $50 in his account. My husband is giving person. He love to give even though, he struggle a lot, even though, he doesn't know what will happen when he get deport. But, him saying other guy story. Does make him cry. I think this is the reason that I really wanna come forward. My husband is giving person, he's lovely person, he's caring person. That is the reason I wanna come forward. I want people to hear our voice, rather than silent. Right now people know our story. But if I was silent then I don't know whether my husband was already disappear. I don't know whether he gonna die torture or maybe he will expel within 24 hours. I have no idea. My husband is number one support system for me, because of him I'm here sharing his story. For years I had wonderful time with him. We build our dream and until 2025, our dream is destroy. I'm trying to build again. I'm hoping, my husband is coming home soon and I'm hoping that this will be the last time that he will get detained. I hope that this will be the end. I don't want him to get detained or deported again. I'm really tired. I don't know what to do. I'm hopeless. I hope listening to my story and Ann's story that separating family is not good. It is affecting not only one person but his whole community, whole family. We deserve to get our husband back. It is not only about the wife that is fighting for husband, it is the children. They're so small, they born here and we cannot raise alone, we cannot work. We have things to pay. Paying bills and taking care of child alone is really difficult. It's been five month. I went through postpartum depression, I went through trauma and I don't wanna deal anymore. Like I don't have courage to do this anymore. We need our husband back. Miko Lee: Thank you. I think both of your husbands are also main caregivers for parents that are ailing in both cases. It's a really important that we are intergenerational communities and as you both said, it's not just about the children, but it's also about parents and brothers and sisters and community members as well. Thank you so much for lifting up your stories. I just wanna go back for one more thing. We talked briefly about the crazy expensive lawyer fees that have come up for families that they've been dealing with this, and then also Tika was just bringing up about detention and commissary fees. Can you talk a little bit about the prison industrial complex and the fees that are associated? As Anne was saying, just calling Lue every day the costs that are associated with those things. Many people that don't have a family member that's incarcerated don't know about that. Can you share a little bit about what that system is? Aisa Villarosa: Yeah, absolutely Miko. Just to underscore, a big theme from this conversation, is that the US made commitments and they have broken them, both with, as Anne talked about, the refugee experience is one that is made possible through US commitment of acknowledging what, people have survived, what they have given to the country. Folks are being removed to countries where not only do they have zero ties to, don't speak the language, but, especially in the case of the Bhutanese refugee community, as Tika mentioned, it is truly a double expulsion. So the fact that we have well-documented testimonials of folks deported from Bhutan after they're removed there into these life-threatening conditions . A community member passed away in large part because of the failure of the US to both care for them while in detention. So going back to that prison complex, but also just putting them in such a harrowing situation. In another instance, a community member was found after wandering for over a hundred miles on foot. So this is not, deportation and the story ends. This is deportation and, there is a family that is grieving and thinking through next steps, there is, this call to not have borders, break us the way that this country is trying to do. And to say a little bit about the fees, USCIS, there, there has not been a point yet in history where so many changes and charges hurting families have been ushered in, But for this year. To give a couple examples of that – asylum cases for one, these often take many years through this administration. Now, families have to pay a cost yearly for each year that your asylum application, languishes because we're also seeing that those same folks who are supposed to process these applications are either being laid off or they're being militarized. So something like USCIS where this was where one would go to apply for a passport. Now the same department is literally being handed guns and they're now taking folks during naturalization interviews. Other avenues to challenge your removal. Like I mentioned a motion to reopen. All these things used to be fairly affordable. Now they can cost many thousands of dollars on top of the attorney fees. So something that's been quite challenging for groups like Asian Law Caucus where we do have attorneys representing folks in removal proceedings, there's often this misperception that oh it's costing so much money. Attorneys are pocketing cash. Unfortunately there are some situations where attorneys have been known to take advantage of families in this desperate moment. But for many, many attorneys who are in this mix, they're experts at this work. They're trying to do the right thing. They're both overwhelmed and they're seeing these new charges, which make the battle really even more difficult. So to turn it back to the listeners, I would say that as powerless as this moment can make us feel everyone is bearing witness. Hopefully the listeners today can take in Anne's story, can take in Tika's story and whatever power one has in their corner of the world, this is the moment to use that. Whether it's your voice, whether it's learning more about a community, maybe you're learning about for the first time. This is really the moment to take action. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I wanna thank you all for being here with me today, for sharing your personal stories, your personal pain, and for recognizing that this is happening. We deeply believe that we need to keep our families together. That is really important. It is written into the very basis of this American country about redemption and forgiveness. And this is what we're talking about for misunderstandings that happened when these folks were young men, that they have paid for their time, and yet they're being punished again, these promises that were broken by this American government, and we need to find ways to address that. I really wanna deeply thank each of you for continuing to be there for sharing your voice, for protecting one another, for being there and standing up for your family and for our community. Thank you for joining me today. Check out our Apex Express Show notes to find out about how you can get involved. Learn about the Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang and Mohan Khaki's GoFundMe. On November 3rd, 4:00 PM Pacific Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time. Join us for We Belong here, Bhutanese and Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness, a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great night.     The post APEX Express – 10.30.25-We Belong! appeared first on KPFA.

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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On tonight's episode, we're focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US' deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people.   Important Links: Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram Bhutanese American Refugee Rights website Transcript Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam. Since the onset of the Trump administration, immigrant and refugee communities have been under increased attack, being kidnapped in broad daylight, detained in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, and deported to countries many of them barely know. All without due process or communication to their loved ones and communities. On tonight's episode, we're focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US' deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people. I also want to note because this is a rapidly developing situation, that this episode was recorded on August 13th, 2025, and is being released on August 28th, 2025. For the most recent updates, please go to bhutaneserefugeerights.org or check out the Pardon Refugees campaign. Now, here's Miko. Miko: Welcome to Apex Express. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so glad to bring you all together in this time. I'm wondering if I could ask you each to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the community your organization serves and what you do, and let's start with Kao Ye. Kao Ye: Hello everyone, and thank you for making space- my name is Kao Ye Tao. I use she her pronouns, and I work as the director of policy and partnerships with an organization called Hmong Innovating Politics. We are an organization that serves Hmong youth and families in Sacramento and Fresno, which holds two of our largest Hmong American communities in California. And our work with Hmong youth and families is really about developing their leadership to organize towards social justice and to get the resources that their communities deserve. Miko: Thank you, Kao Ye and Robin, could you please introduce yourself? Robin: Sure. My name is Robin Gurung. I use he, him, his, I'm from the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community. I live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. my role at Asian Refugees United is the co-founder and the co-executive director. We have our program in California and Pennsylvania. California programs are, are serving Asian diaspora and then, Pennsylvania programs are focused serving the Nepal speaking Bhutanese community. We work in the intersection of arts and healing, storytelling, civic engagement, leadership development. Thank you. Miko: Thanks Robin and I am your host Miko Lee, lead producer at Apex Express. And all of us are part of a network called AACRE Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, which is a network of progressive Asian American groups. So you all work with refugee populations. I'm wondering if you could tell a little bit more about the backstory of your community, and also if you feel comfortable about how you personally came to be a refugee in the United States. And, Robin, I'd love to start with you on that one. Robin: Sure. My community is Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community. And we are ethnically Nepali, which means culture wise and language wise we speak Nepali and follow the Nepali culture tradition. Our ancestors like maybe in 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds migrated from Nepal to Bhutan and became the citizen of that country. And most people don't know about Bhutan, it's a very tiny country between China and India. And, if people know about Bhutan, then people know it through the cross national happiness concept, Bhutan is considered the happiest country in the world. So our ancestors were in mostly in the southern area of Bhutan for generations, they became the citizen. They had their own home, their own land. And then later, 1980s, early nineties, there was a policy by the government of Bhutan, which is the monarchy government system- king rules the country. They brought a policy called One Nation, One People Policy. Which means all different groups of people would have to follow the same culture, same religion, kind of follow the same dress code and because of that policy all people were forced to stay away from following our own culture or our own religion, which, most of our folks were Hindu. Our people protested against it and because of that, the government expelled over a hundred thousand of our community members. And, they expelled to India and then from like India wouldn't allow us to stay and we had to resettle in Nepal in seven different refugee camps under different international agencies like U-N-H-C-R and other agencies. Miko: And then Robin, can you tell a little bit about your personal story and how you came here? Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So 1992 is when my family had to leave Bhutan. And at that time I was three years old. I remember growing up in a refugee camp in Nepal, from three years until I was 23 years. So 20 years of my life I was in a refugee camp in Nepal. And in 2012, I came to US through the refugee resettlement program introduced to our camps in 2008, and through it US agreed to resettle 60,000 of our committee members. By 2017, I think US has resettled about 70 to 80,000 of our Bhutanese community members.   Miko: Thank you so much for sharing. Kao Ye I wonder if you could talk about your community and the refugee resettlement program that your community was a part of. Kao Ye: The Hmong American community, or just the Hmong community overall, is a group that's indigenous to East and Southeast Asia. And through our ancient history, we've always been a stateless, people fighting for our autonomy to live to practice our customs and our culture. And particularly where we come into this history of refugee is during the Vietnam War where many Hmong people, alongside other ethnic groups in Laos, were caught in the crossfire of the United States conflict in Southeast Asia. And so with the Vietnam War. The Hmong as well as many other ethnic communities that lived, in the hills and the mountains were recruited in covert operations by the CIA to fight back against the Vietnamese, the Northern Vietnamese communist forces, as well as the Putet Lao. And so once the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, it created a vacuum of conflict and violence that our people had to escape from in order to survive. And so after the Vietnam War in 1975, we saw the mass displacement of many Southeast Asian ethnic communities, including Hmong families. And that is where my history starts because my parents were born in Laos and because of this war, they fled to Thailand refugee camps and lived there for a few years until they were able to come to the United States in 1992. And I'm actually I'm a child of refugees and so what I know about this part of my history comes from the stories of my grandparents who raised me as well as what little I could learn in the textbooks of public education. And so it wasn't actually until going to college and. Being able to access more of this literature, this history that I really learned about what the United States had done in Southeast Asia and the ramifications of that for myself and my family and so many others, refugees that. Have to have had to resettle in the United States. And so it's definitely a history that runs very close, because we have relatives that live through that refugee experience. And so it is very well and alive. And so as we now approach this conversation around ICE and deportations, it really is a reminder of the trauma that our people face, but are still facing as a people that have been seen as disposable to the United States government. Miko: Thanks, Kao Ye. Let's talk a little bit more about that. But first I wanna say, did either of you ever hear about refugees in your textbooks? I never did. So I'm wondering if, you said you learned a little bit about that from textbooks. Was that something you learned in public education. Kao Ye: I did not learn about refugees or refugees experience. I learned about the war and as a Hmong kid it brought me so much delight to try to scroll through the history books just to see if Hmong people were mentioned. And even then the refugee experience was not ever something that we talked about. I felt like definitely not in, in high school. I think it was college really, that then started to articulate those terms and that Southeast Asian identity, that is really where I think I also became politicized in that. Miko: Yeah, because I think in textbooks there might be a little section on the Vietnam War, but it does not talk about the, all the Southeast Asian ethnic peoples that actually fought in the war. We have to dig that information out on our own, but I wanna move us to what is happening right now. So the Trump administration has created. Culture of fear among immigrants and refugees, these ICE raids and disappearances. It is so intense and using immigrants as a fear tool to prop up white supremacy is so blatant right now. I'm wondering if you can each talk about, how this administration's policies are impacting your communities. And, Robin, let's start with you. What is happening right now? I know since the end of March, can you share a little bit about what's been happening with Bhutanese Americans? Robin: Sure. Sure. So our people were settled to this country with the hope that this is going to be our home. But starting March of this year, with the new policies of this current administration, we started seeing abrupt, ICE arrest in our communities. People were picked up from home, their workplaces, and from their ICE, check-ins. And, since March, within I would say two to three months, more than 72 of our community members were picked up, mostly from Pennsylvania and then Ohio, and also from other states like New York, Georgia, North Dakota. So until now, we have, the records of at least 50 people who have been deported to Bhutan and at least 72 who are detained. So more than 30 people are [at risk] of getting detained. The nature of the ICE arrests that we have seen is we don't know whether the due processes were followed. They made it so hard for the families to look for attorneys, and also to track their family members. Within days family members would find their loved ones disappeared, and then they wouldn't be able to talk to them they wouldn't be able to track them and provide the support that they needed. So for us as a community organization we did not anticipate this and we were not prepared for this. And, and we didn't have the infrastructure to really address this, right? So it became such challenging work for us. Like within days we had to mobilize our people. We had to mobilize our teams to help family members with legal support, emotional support, mobilize our community members to update what's happening with this situation. The rapid response work, know your rights clinics that we had to set up. So on one hand it's the detention and deportation in the US and on the other hand, when our people were deported to Bhutan, what we're seeing is within 24 hours, they are being expelled from Bhutan to India, and then from India because India wouldn't accept them as well, they had to enter Nepal because for most of these Deportee, they're very young, they were born in refugee camps, and for most of them, the only known land is Nepal. Right. And they had to enter Nepal without documentation. And then some of them were found in refugee camps. And most of them are unknown. Like they're, they have disappeared. Miko: So that is so much over the last few months that ARU has had to step in and take a leading, role in this situation that has impacted the Bhutanese community from focusing on wellness and youth development to suddenly translating materials into Nepali, translating, know Your Rights materials into Nepali, hosting all these different events, the work that you have been doing is really powerful. I wonder if you could share with us the story of Mohan Karki, who is a community member that's currently detained in Michigan. Robin: Sure. So, Mohan Karki is now in detention in Michigan and he's a community member member who lived in Ohio. So he was detained by ICE during his regular ICE check-in , I believe in April, they detained him and then he was taken for deportation. And last minute, the families and the community had to come together and then appeal the deportation. Right now he's in Michgan detention center and his wife, who was pregnant and had due date, when Mohan was being deported on June 10, is now fighting day and night to stop the deportation and also to bring Mohan home. Right now, Asian Refugees United and other community partners, like AWPAL, Asian Law Caucus are working together to support Mohan's family, to bring Mohan home and also running a, GoFund me fundraiser, to help the family pay the legal fees. Miko: Thanks Robin. And we're gonna listen to Tikas story right now. Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet I'm from Ohio and I'm fighting my husband deportation case. So on April seven, a lot of people told us not to go to the ICE office, but my husband wanna follow the rules, he wanna go there. We went to the Westerville office inside And we sit down, we talk to each other. Nothing will go wrong. And suddenly ICE told us to come inside and they told us that my husband got travel documents from Bhutan. I told them like it is not safe for my husband to get deport in Bhutan, all the Bhutanese people run away in 1990s due to the ethnic cleansing and if my husband get deported in Bhutan, he will either gonna get killed, tortured, disappeared, imprisoned, I don't know what will happen, but they did not listen to me. So they detained my husband and I came at the parking lot and his mom saw me coming alone. So they start crying and I told them like, Mohan is gone and this is the last time I think I'm gonna see my husband. the time that my husband was taken away from Butler County on June 10 I was 41 weeks pregnant. I was supposed to deliver on, June 10. But no, I told the doctor I change my delivery time. I am not gonna go now like I need to fight for my husband. Like, When Bhutanese people started coming here in 2007. Third party promise us that in here in United States, we will get our identity. That identity will never taken away. They promise us that the way Bhutan take our identity, they will not gonna do that. we thought that this is our home. We thought that having a green card, having a citizenship, it is permanently, but no, we are, we all are wrong. And that identity is taken away within a second. And we became stateless again. So, my husband, Mohan Karki he just arrived in the United States he been here less than two years when the incident happened. He did not understand the law. He did not understand the culture. He did not know anything. My husband he was only 17 years old, high school student coming from school to home. On the way to reach their apartment, there is one private house. They are just trying to go to the shortcut from the backyard. So some neighbor call 9 1 1. And that only one mistake lead to deportation. The place that we come from, there is no boundaries. In Nepal, we are allowed to go anybody property We are allowed to walk somebody else house and because of the cultural difference, he's paying price right now. At that time, nobody can speak English. They cannot understand what police were saying and Nepali interpreter told my husband that if you say I'm guilty, you'll out of prison soon. But if you did not say I'm guilty, you'll end up in prison for 20 to 25 years. High school student he's scared he just say, I'm guilty, and he did not know what is deportation mean. He did not know what he was signing. Nobody informed him what he was signing. That signing was deportation. What happened in 2013 is impacting us in 2025 and still he wish he did not cross somebody else backyard at that time. He wish he knew that he wasn't allowed to cross somebody else's backyard. I don't know what will our future is gonna be, but I hope that he gets second chance. His community love him. He love people. He was working as a truck driver. He paid taxes. He was supporting his parent. He was supporting me. My daughter deserve to have a father. You know, she's just one month. But now the dream that I was hoping one day I'm gonna build with my husband that is taken away and I'm left alone with this child. I already went through a lot without him, i'm the only one that fighting for my husband case. The deportation is not only breaking one family, but it is breaking everybody, the community and the family. And I hope that people can support me so I can fight for my husband case. Like I really need so many attorney. I need criminal attorney to open up his 2013 case. And I have wonderful, wonderful attorney, my husband get stay off removal, but that is not guarantee my husband can get deport anytime. The attorney fee are really expensive and he still needs support. The US made bhutanese people a promise of home. We belong here. Stop the detention and deportation. Stop deporting Bhutanese people. We are stateless. We don't have country, don't have a home. This is our home. US is our home. We belong here. Miko: Of the 72 people, Mohan is the first Bhutanese refugee that we actually have a stay of release on, as Robin was saying earlier, most of the folks were moved from state to state, so you can't really get a lawyer in that time. And as we all know, nonprofit immigration lawyers are under a lot of stress because of the attack of this administration. So it makes it incredibly complicated, let alone the legal fees that it costs to help support people going through this. And right now, Mohan has a stay on his, deportation and the lawyer that they do have is drafting up a letter to be able to release him into the community and also overturn his original case that happened as a minor in Georgia, which was a ridiculous case where he was leaving school, early high school, first year in the country, leaving high school early, and walked with his friends across a backyard. And the neighbor that they walked through their yard called the police, and they arrested him along with his friends for trespassing, they gave him paperwork that he didn't even understand. He signed it along with a interpreter they gave him false information to say he'd be locked up for 25 years, or if he signed this papers, that would be fine. He could go and what the papers said was it changed his charge into a felony and had him sign a letter of deportation. So this is part of the failure of our American legal system that we're not providing adequate information. It is a lack of due process. Thankfully, the work that Asian Law Caucus and United States of Stateless and other community activists are doing to call this out and help work with us is really critical. I wanna turn now to Kao Ye how this administrations is impacting Hmong refugees, and how is it similar or different to the experiences that Robin is describing for the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community? Kao Ye: I echoed many of the sentiments and the challenges that Robin shared around what we as nonprofit, grassroots organizations are having to build and grapple with just the limited infrastructure that we have to deal with the current ICE disappearances and deportation and all the support that's needed for the families. And so thank you Robin, for sharing that. I wanted to start broad a little bit because I think that this Trump administration is happening in the backdrop of the 50th year commemoration of the end of the wars in Southeast Asia and the refugee resettlement. We had over 1.1 million Southeast Asians resettle to the United States, the largest immigration resettlement, in American history. And so this year brings so many complexities, I think as a Southeast Asian community where there is a level of looking back at policies that have impacted us and have failed, but also looking forward what is the community that we are building together to move and progress together. And so there are those complexities, I think as the fact that it's the 50th year and like, this is what we're dealing with. This is the trauma that we are grappling with. And so I wanted to put that out front and center because even I think within our communities , there is no necessarily enlightenment in terms of how we talk about what is happening to our people and how they're getting deported unjustly. So that is why it is so important to have this dialogue within our communities as well as the solidarity that we also share with the Bhutanese community and other immigrant groups too. I think that in many of our Southeast Asian communities, their reasons for deportations is very tied to past convictions, and so this is the intersection between criminal law and immigration law. And it makes it complex because our people are now having to consult not just an immigration lawyer, but like criminal attorney so that they could really assess like what kind of relief they can get in order to mitigate, impending deportations. And then also miko you had shared about the lack of adequate legal service or representation because many of these folks, right, that have had these convictions that have now served their time and are simply members of our community that make our community rich. They are now having to revisit removal orders that they signed, thinking that, oh, nothing necessarily was gonna happen because they don't have a repatriation agreement. So, in our community, there was never a thought that we were going to be deported back to our home country because of that policy. And so that is a big contributing factor as to why the Hmong community, we don't have that infrastructure to really support our members who have gone through the criminal justice system and now have those removal orders. And so HIP, as well as many other grassroots. Sadly we did have to scramble to put this know your rights information together because again, I don't think that there was visibility in the need for us in this conversation around immigration Southeast Asians are a segment of our API community and so it just, I think, multiplied the invisibility that we already faced as a group of Southeast Asians. And so the support was definitely not there. And, to Robin's point, we did our best to try to put this information together to our community, starting with the Know Your Rights. And then we also realized like it was more complex than that, and that the legal supports were so necessary because everyone's case was different. I think what we're still dealing with now is that there's always been a lack of trust between our community members and government entities and nonprofit organizations. And so, if someone is dealing with the situation, they wanna go to, a partner that they trust to help them, even if they're not necessarily equipped to do that work, is that they're going to only the people that they trust because there is such a big mistrust. And so I think that, there is still the level of trust building that is needed to be done within our community so that folks feel comfortable to come to us or come to other people for support. And I think what makes me feel emotional is just when I hear about community members feeling hopeless and just feeling like there's nothing that they can do and that level of disempowerment to me, I think is something that is real. And I can't say that we can't combat it, but I think that it is about being able to find different outlets of support for them. Miko: Thank you for lifting that up. And just , in terms of the numbers, over three months, March, April and May, there were about 72 Bhutanese Americans that have been detained. And this is just kind of starting up with the Hmong community. So we had 15 that were detained from Minnesota and another 10 right now are being held in Michigan. And we also see this happening with Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodians, and Myan folks. All of these folks as Kao Ye you're pointing out, have had common threads, which is connections with the system, with the criminal legal/ justice system and crimmigration is something that in the AACRE network we've been talking about and working on, which is really about the education to prison, to deportation pipeline. And one of the things that this administration had talked about is, let's get rid of all the murderers and the rapists. You know, this like scare language about people that are convicted criminals, let's get rid of them all. But the fact of the matter. The vast majority of all of these people are people like Mohan Karki, a cultural misunderstanding that happened when he was a child. Like Lou Yang, who is Hmong refugee detained in Michigan right now. Somebody who was involved in something as a kid, but has since then become a leader in the community. So let's take a moment and listen to the spouse of Lou Yang, a Hmong refugee detained in Michigan in July. Anne Vu: My name is Anne Vu and I come before you today with a heart full of hope. Sorrow and a plea for justice. I am a proud American, a mother of six, the daughter of Hmong refugees who would gain their citizenship, and the wife of a man called Lou Yang, who is now detained and faced with potential deportation from the only country that he's ever known. Lou has lived in Michigan since October, 1979. He was born stateless in a refugee camp in Nongkai Thailand and his family fled Laos due to persecution. His father and like many others, served with the United States force during the Vietnam War as part of the Secret War, recruited by CIA in Laos, a conflict that most Americans do not know has happened. The Hmong were recruited by the CIA as part of the Secret War to help America during the Vietnam War. But when the war ended and the US withdrew, we were as the Hmongs declared enemy of the state. What followed was genocide, polarization and persecution by the state, and it was because of our alliance, the promise made by the US government that the Hmong refugees were legally settled here under certain migration of refugee laws and acts. And Lou arrived here as a young, toddler in infancy. In 1997, he was arrested on an alleged accomplice in an attempt home invasion, second degree. He was in the vehicle at the time. He never entered the home. He literally was still a juvenile at that time. He had a court appointed attorney and was advised to take a plea without being told it would affect his immigration status for the rest of his life. This is the reality of our immigration system – long, complex, confusing and devastating, unforgiving. It is not built for people like us, people like Lou, people who have served their time, rebuilt their lives and have nowhere else to go. We've walked this legal path, we've stayed together in the lines, and yet we are here punished today. Lou has no other charges, no current legal issues, no history of violence. He is not a flight risk. He is not a danger to our public safety. He is a father, my husband, a son, a son-in-law, a grandson and a brother to many, and our leader and a provider to our community, and to my family. He renews his work authorization and follows every rule asked of him no matter how uncertain the future felt. Together, we've raised six beautiful children. They're all proud Americans. Lou has contributed to Michigan's economy for decades working in our automotive industry and now he is gone and all that he is built is unraveling and the community is heartbroken. We didn't come from wealth. We didn't have every opportunity handed to us because we didn't come seeking a land of opportunity. We came here because of survival. We had to build from the ground up. But the most important thing was Lou and I, we had each other. We had our families, our friends, and our neighbors. We had a shared commitment to build a better life, grounded in love, respect, and purpose. And somehow that's still not enough. For years, we were told like other Hmong families that Laos in Thailand would never take us back. And that has changed. In June, 2025 the US imposed a partial travel ban on Laos, citing visa overstays, and lack of deportation cooperation. And in response, Laos began issuing these documents under pressure. Today over 4,800, including Hmong, Myan, and the other ethnic minorities are facing removal to Laos and to many other countries, many have never stepped foot in a country that they are now being sent to. Lou is Stateless like many others that is detained with him. None of these countries recognize him. He was born in the Thailand refugee camp, it does not recognize him nor qualify him for any sort of Thai citizenship and I'll tell you guys right now if forced to return, he will face danger because of his family's deep ties to the CIA and United States military. Deporting him turns him, a civil servant and respected community leader, into a political casualty, it would be a grave and irreversible injustice. To deport him now is to punish him to death. Once again, 50 years later, as we celebrate resilience this year across the nation, we are now celebrating a fight within our own grounds, right here in United States, right here in Michigan. We're now fighting the same fight within our own country. Thousands of Southeast Asian Americans, many that entered legally admitted as refugees are being deported for decade old offenses they've longed paid for. America is our country. All we ask is the right to stay in the home that we've helped to build and work hard to protect. We are not seeking special treatment. We are asking for justice, compassion, and a second chance in this country to claim what we believe in. To Governor Whitmer and members of Congress and all elected officials, please help bring Lou and the many others home. Urge ICE and DHS to release him on humanitarian grounds. Help his case. Help us preserve the integrity of our laws and the dignity of our families. And to the public allies and the media. Please call our elected officials. Please call these offices. Please share Lou's story. We need voices. Voices louder than ours alone. It is hard times you guys. It is real. And I speak to you from the bottom of my heart. Please help me and our families in the many that are suffering. This is our home. These are our children. This is my husband and this is our fight. Let him come home. Let our families be whole again, and let America keep its promise. Thank you guys for hearing me. Miko: Lou Young is a community leader. Michigan, who actually runs a nonprofit in support of Hmong folks in that community, and is targeted and also has a stay of removal. So we're doing a targeted campaign for both of these folks, Lou Yang and Mohan Karki, to be able to get them released to overturn their original convictions and they also have spouses that are telling their stories and telling the impact these detentions have had. Because while this current administration talks about getting rid of criminals, what they are actually doing is breaking apart families and community. Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Coming up is Deporting the Pilgrim from the Anakbayan Long Beach Mayday Mix tape.   Swati Rayasam: That was please be strong, featuring Hushed, loudmouth and Joe handsome. And before that was deporting the pilgrim from the Unec Bayan Long Beach Mayday Mixtape. Now back to the show. Miko: I wanna shift us a little bit to talking about Asian american representation in the larger fabric of immigration justice in the United States. Mostly many of our Asian communities have been like isolated, not really involved in the broader immigration movement. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the difficulty and nuance of bringing your community struggle to the forefront because many of us heard about the Venezuelans and the Mexicans that have been deported and what was going on, but we don't hear as much about these stories of our Asian sisters and brothers. I wonder if one of you could give voice to that. Robin: Before going there can I add something to Miko: of course. Robin: crimmigration conversation? So when you all are sharing about that, I was thinking about, the justice system in this country and what we are seeing right now is a broken justice system. Like you said, Miko, where families are separated where families are broken, and what I don't understand is, when, let's say your loved one gets into trouble, makes a mistake, and gets into a trouble, then, as a human being, like, don't you want your loved ones to rebuild their lives? Like Yes, of course there is a system that you have to follow, the laws that you have to follow, but at the end, I think we all want our loved ones to come back, rebuild their lives, right? And what we're seeing in this country is they're constantly breaking the families. And I don't see how we are going to build a better future when we are constantly, hurting the families. And in the cases of detention and deportation, what we're seeing is the double punishment. Like the mistakes that they had made, but then throughout their life, they have to go through that, a continuous cycle of being punished. And not just the individuals, but their family members have also go through the challenges, the suffering, right? And in the case of Bhutanese from double punishment to double expulsion to this, the state of being statelessness. Right? So what kind of future we are imagining when an individual has to go through that continuous cycle of being punished and not having the opportunity to rebuild their lives. So that's a big question mark that I think, we all need to think about. To your later question around my community and the larger Asian American context or the national context. My community is relatively new to this country. We lived, almost two decades in a refugee camp, which was a enclosed camp. And our lives were dependent on foreign aids like UNHCR or ILWF. Pretty much I would say we had our own world over there. And for us to work outside the refugee camp was illegal. There was no laws that gave us the permission to work outside. So we were not pretty much exposed to the outer world. So for us to come to US was a big step. Which means pretty much from basic every day stuffs like, you know, using a bathroom, using a kitchen, taking a bus. All of those were foreign for us. So for our community to really tap into the education system, the political landscape of this country. And also like the experience of being expelled for voicing our, our opinions, for fighting for our rights. Right? So for us, for our community to kind of step in into the politics, it's like re-traumatizing ourselves. I would say there are a lot of barriers, multi-layered barriers for our community members to really tap into the larger political, like socio political landscape, from language barriers to culture barriers to education, to pretty much everything. So right now, the way our committee has been being attacked. It's a surprise to the community. And also it is like kind of traumatizing the community and taking us back to the same place of feeling, insecure, feeling like we don't have a home. And we did hope that this is legally, this is going to be a home. Because after coming to the US most of us became the legal citizens of this country and we started rebuilding our lives. Now it's kind of like going back to the same circle of statelessness. Miko: Thank you for sharing about that. Kao Ye, would you like to add to that? Kao Ye: When I think of the Hmong American community and even the Southeast Asian community and why the narratives of what is happening still feels very invisible. I think of how our community, we were assimilating for survival. And I speak on that as a child of my refugee parents and siblings where growing up we were taught to, listen, not speak out, not cause trouble. Go through the system, listen to authority, listen to law enforcement. And because of that, I feel it's shaped a culture of fear. Fear to dissent and fear to speak out because we care so much about the stability of our families. And we wanted to protect ourselves, because of everything we've gone through with the war. And we are finding that it's been challenging for our community members to come forward with their stories. Honestly, we're still sitting on that and we're still kind of sitting through like, why is there that tension? You know, I feel like folks are going through a lot and even folks have, our impacted loved ones, but they're afraid to tell their story because of fear of of retaliation. And so I think that there is a level of, I think that lack of even psychological safety, but real, physical, real financial safety that people have. And I think that being a factor to the assimilation, but also this facade of like the American dream and like if we don't just disrupt, if we don't speak out, we will be protected. And, white supremacy, right? Like we will be okay. And it's a facade because we know that because our communities are the ones getting kidnapped and getting deported. Right. And so I think there is that fear, but there's also recognition of this now, this facade that the silence doesn't protect us and that there is a real need for us to really, be strong in speaking out, not just for our SEA siblings that are impacted, but for all of our immigrant groups, even the Bhutanese community, right. That's been impacted during this time. And so I, yeah, I think it is that multi-layered experience of being a Southeast Asian refugee community on top of, being part of this AAPI umbrella. AAPI we are not homogenous. We all have very unique histories as to how we have dealt with the systems in this country and how we came into this country. And so I think it's been challenging to make space for those nuances. And at the end of the day, I still see the interconnections that we all have together too. And so, I think it's the willingness to make space for those different stories. And I am finding that more of our ethnic media, our smaller news outlets are more willing to cover those stories as opposed to, these larger mainstream outlets. Like they're not covering those stories, but we are. Miko: Thank you. Oh, both of you have brought up so much today about our failed criminal justice system, about us punishing people as opposed to rehabilitating people and punishing them more than once. We brought up questions around statelessness and the impact that it has, and I just recently learned that the United States does not have any policy on Statelessness. So one of the things that this coalition of folks is trying to do is to get a congressional hearing to help the United States develop policy around statelessness, because it is actually our responsibility and our duty to do that. The other thing I hear you both talking about is this good immigrant, bad immigrant trope, which we've heard of a lot, but I think that's also very much connected to why so many members of our communities don't wanna speak out because this connection with, you know, quote unquote criminal history might be something that's shameful. And I'm wondering if you both see that as a divide mostly between elders in the community and younger folks. Robin, do you wanna talk about that? Robin: Yeah. I mean, initially when we were mobilizing our community members to fight against the the unjust and unfair detention and deportation, this issue around the perception around good immigrants and bad immigrants became one of the main topic of discussion. We had to deal with people, and mostly elders, but I would say some young folks as well, who would pull themselves back on speaking against this issue because for them people who are being deported or detained are criminals and they deserve this kind of mindset. And not being able to see the larger picture of how the administration is targeting the immigrant and the refugee population of this country and really trying to dismantle community power, right? So, yes, it is a challenge that we are, we're going through and I think it's going to be quite a bit of work, to really build solidarity within our own communities. Kao Ye: I feel that the divide in the Hmong community is stemming from class and education. I feel as though when folks are articulating, regurgitating these justifications of the bad immigrant as to why folks should be deported it's folks that maybe kind of made it in their lives and now they're comparing themselves to folks that were not in that situation. And there is this growing within our community as well, where some folks are getting that education, getting, good jobs. But so much of our community, we still suffer from poverty, right? And so, I think that has been really interesting to witness the level of division because of class, because of income and also the education piece. Because oftentimes when folks are feeling this, it comes from a place of ignorance as well. And so that's why I think the education piece is so important. I actually feel though our elders are more understanding because these are their children that are being separated from them. And Robin's point is that when we have loved ones that go through the system, we just want them to rebuild their lives and be self-sufficient. And I feel like those are the values that I grew up in my community where our parents were always about keeping the family together to a fault, you know? And so they don't want separation. They just want us to be well and to do well, and to turn our lives around. And so, I feel strongly that our elders, they do understand that the importance of giving this opportunity for us to, to stay together and turn our lives around. Miko: Thank you so much, both of you for joining me here today to talk about this important conversation. I'm wondering if you could provide our audience with how they could find out more about what is going on and what are next steps for our audience members. Robin, let's start with you. Robin: Yeah. I just wanted to add what, Kao Ye talked about. I do agree the patterns around the divide is based on class. And I do see that in the community, and not just the class, but in our community class and caste, I would say. And in terms of the class, there were some instances where we had to deal with even the highly educated like PhD holders kind of, questioning us like, you know, what we are advocating for, and, I couldn't understand like, I couldn't relate the education, the title, the degree that he holds and the perception around this issue. Right. So, I just wanted to echo that. So, in terms of our work and Asian Refugees United, our website is www.asianrefugees.org And you can find us in our Instagram, Facebook, Asian Refugees United. Miko: And you can also get latest news about what's happening at bhutaneserefugeerights.com. Yeah. And Kao Ye how can folks find out more about your work? Kao Ye: Right now HIP is part of a statewide network in California called the Pardon Refugees Campaign, where we are really pushing Governor Newsom to pardon all refugees, not just Southeast Asians because of everything that we talked about, about how our families, they deserve to stay together. And so, I don't think we have a website up yet, but you can follow this campaign with us. We will be having a rally and press conference, coming up soon, in the next few weeks. And so, I would say that please follow us in that work where we are really moving in coalition with all of our uh, grassroots partners to advocate for our loved ones that are currently being impacted. Miko: Thank you so much, Robin Gurung, Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong Innovating Politics. Thank you so much for being with us here today, and I hope you listeners out there take action to keep our families together, to keep our people in the communities as loved ones where they belong. Thank you all. Have a great night. Swati Rayasam: I'm so grateful that Miko was able to talk to Robin and Kao Ye. And for those who missed it, visit bhutanese refugee rights.org for the most recent updates on the Bhutanese refugees. The press conference in rally Kao Ye mentioned took place last week on August 21st, 2025, but check out the Pardon Refugees Campaign for updates from the coalition supporting Hmong, Cambodian Laotian, Myan, and other refugees facing deportation. Thanks so much for tuning in to Apex Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by  Miko Lee, along with Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar,  Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Ravi Grover, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a good night. The post APEX Express – 10.23.25 -And We Become Stateless Again appeared first on KPFA.

This conversation delves into the complexities of mental health, particularly depression, within the Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. Soo Jin talks about care with compassion, and the potential for intergenerational healing through community engagement.

Lenna, Meri, Josiah, and Rev Niuatoa come on to talk about the upcoming Pacific Islander Wellness Day. 

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki's GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.   The following day, November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   We Belong Here! Show Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we're talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities. And today I am so honored to have three guests with me, Tika Basnet, and Ann Vu, and Aisa Villarosa. Tika and Ann they're part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. But I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I'm gonna start with you. I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, you guys for having me on. So we are Hmong. And we helped Americans during the Vietnam War. And so, during the Vietnam War in Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. And because we're indigenous and we are in the mountains, they were able to speak with us and use us. And so a lot of our Hmong, what they did or what they contributed helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, really, so that that way they can make it back home, right? And so that is our contribution to the American people. And so when we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Really because of our legacy of helping Americans with the war, right? So that is who we are and what we bring to America. And that's who I am. I'm, and I'm actually the first generation Hmong American too. So I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. And Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Yes. Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. So I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. And they came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship, so we were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. And yeah, my husband also born in Nepal in a refugee camp. Miko Lee: Thank you, Tika. And Aisa, I'm gonna ask the same question for you Aisa, my friend that works at Asian Law Caucus. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Aisa Villarosa: So much love to you, Miko and to you Ann and Tika for being here today. I just am, I'm so honored.My name is Aisa and I carry the love and, Maki Baka spirit of Filipino Americans both in my family across the diaspora. A little bit about the Filipino American story. We came to the United States as part of the colonial machine. The first Filipinos were brought as part of the Spanish Gallian trade. We made California home, parts of Louisiana home, and it's quite a contrast to a lot of the sort of model minority seduction that many of my people, and myself as a younger person tended to fall into that if we kept our heads down, if we were quiet, we would be left alone. I'm struck because at this moment of just unprecedented government attacks, so many of our communities have this story where someone somewhere said to us, yeah, just keep your head down and it'll be fine. And we're seeing the exact opposite, that this is the time to really use our voices, both individually and as one. And I'm also an artist and try to infuse that into my work in fighting government systems. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. And in the interest of fairness, I will say I'm Miko. I am fifth generation Chinese American. I grew up knowing that my family was full of fighters that built the railroads, worked in the gold mines in laundromats and restaurants, and my parents walked with Dr. King and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, and I was raised in a family of social justice activists. So I feel like our legacy is to continue that work and to fight for the rights of our peoples. That being said, I'm so honored to have both of all three of you powerful women join me today. And as I was saying in the beginning, Tika and Anne are sadly a part of this club. Nobody wants to be a part of this club with the sudden, unexpected, harmful detentions of both of your husbands. I wonder if you can each just share the story about what happened and how you first found out about your husband being detained. And let's start with you Tika. Tika Basnet: So, my husband got his removal in 2014 when he was like minor. Just 17 years old, high school student going from school to home and, he's a teenager and with his friend, like they were playing around and they wanna go home really fast. So they just cross from private property. And I think that is where someone saw and call 911. So we came from the culture that we love to go people home , walking around, playing around. So my husband came here in 2011. The incident happened on 2013. So he was just, came here without knowing culture, without knowing languages, So he has no idea. So when somebody called 911, he could not explain what happened. First of all, English is his second language, he was barely here without knowing rules and regulation, without knowing culture. The police get them and then they took him to jail I think police gave a lot of charges. And even until now, my husband doesn't know what are those charges? At that time, nobody explained, this is the three charges you got, and this could lead to deportation. And he feel guilty without knowing those charges. And just because he trusts Nepali translate guy, and he told my husband, like, if you don't say I'm guilty, you will end up in prison for 20 to 25 years, but if you say I'm guilty, you'll go home. And my husband said, guilty. And at that time, neither criminal lawyer told my husband, like, if you say I'm guilty, you'll end up getting deport. Deport to the contrary that you are you never born. Deport To the contrary, you doesn't even speak their language. And even the lawyer did not explain my husband like, you will not gonna get your green card. You cannot apply your citizenship in your life. If all of, if those things like the lawyer told my husband at that time, he will never gonna say, I am guilty to the crime that he did not even commit. And so when they tried to deport my husband back then, Bhutan say, he's not my citizenship, he's not from my country, We don't know this guy. He's not belongs to here. And when US Embassy reach out to, Nepal, do you know this guy? They told, ICE no, we don't know this guy, like he's not belongs here. And then the ICE officer, they told my husband, like, we can let you go, you need to come here, like order of supervision every years, every three months, every six months, whenever we call you. And it been 11 years. My husband is following rules and regulation. After that incident, never police arrest him. He did not even get criminal record. He did not even get misdemeanor record. So basically he never did any violation after that. So he was following, he got married, he has a life, he pay taxes. He was taking care of his family and in 11 years he was doing everything. And in 2025 for the first time they target Bhutanese Nepali community. And at that time I knew that this is the last time I'm gonna see my husband. And that is a time I think I broke down. Like, when they detained my husband in April 8, I was eight months pregnant. And um, like we dream a lot of things like, you know, we are gonna take care of our daughter. We are gonna buy home, we are gonna work, we are gonna give her the life that we, I'm sorry. Miko Lee: Totally. Okay. Tika Basnet: So, yeah. Um, like I never thought like Bhutanese community can, like deport. Like my parent already , go through this trauma, you know, when Bhutan throw them away due to ethnic cleansing and same thing happening to us. It is unbelievable. I cannot believe that, we're going through this again and I don't know when this gonna be stopped. I don't know whether like my husband gonna come home. I dunno. Like I'm fighting and it is been five month and I really want my husband back. Like my daughter today is, she's three month old. She need her dad in life. 'cause I cannot provide everything by myself. My husband is the main provider for her aging parent. 'cause even now they cannot pay bills. Like they have really hard time paying bills. And this is the reason, like I'm fighting for my husband case and I want my husband back. And I think he deserve second chance because if you see his record is clean, like for one incident that happened like 12 years ago, that cannot define my husband. Like who he is right now, you know? So yeah, this is what happened. Like I cannot believe that my husband is able to get deport to the country that doesn't even accept. And I don't know whether he gonna get killed. I dunno what, whether he gonna disappear, I don't know what will happen to him. I don't know if it is last time I'm gonna see him. Miko Lee: Tika, thank you so much for sharing your story. And just to recap really briefly, your husband, Mohan Karki when he was a teenager, newly arrived in the country, was leaving high school, walked with his friends through a backyard and was suddenly racially profiled. And the neighbor called police because he was trespassing on property.He was born at a refugee camp. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: And so there was not property that was like person's property on that refugee camp. So that whole concept of walking across somebody's land was something he was not aware of. He had an interpreter that did not give correct or full information. And so he signed something, including a deportation order, that he wasn't actually, wasn't even aware of until recently when he was put into detention. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Yes. Miko Lee: And right now he's in detention. You're, you live in Ohio, but he's in detention in Michigan, right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: Okay, Tika, let's talk about Mohans case and what's happening. He's held in detention right now in a detention facility in Michigan. And what is going on with his case? Tika Basnet: Yeah, I don't wanna say a lot of things about his case, but our attorney, his criminal attorney does file, a Motion to Redeem asking BIA to send that, case back to Georgia and we recently hired, criminal attorney to fight for his case, that happened in 2013. And our attorney just submit documentation where he's asking to release my husband because it'd been five month. And he's not risk to the community. He's not risk to the flight. 'cause he doesn't have no one in Bhutan. He doesn't have no one in Nepal. He's all family is in here. So his community love him ,he has family that loves him. And, we also get lot of documentations as a proof telling ICE officer that my husband is not risk to the community or, to the flight. Miko Lee: Thank you. And he has a new baby, a four month old baby that he has yet to meet. So that is a powerful reason to stay. And as Tikas pointing out, the lawyer just submitted documentation along with 50 letters of support from the community , from employers, from family members, all saying why he should stay in this country. Thank you so much for sharing. And Anne, i'm wondering if you could share about what happened to your husband. He was also born in a refugee camp, right? Ann Vue: So, Lou was born in Nangkai, Thailand refugee camp. In 1978 and in 1979 his parents and him and his older brother received parole for legal entry. I think the exact word was, they were paroled pursuant under section 212D5 of the I and N Act, which means that they are granted urgent humanitarian reasons for or for public benefit. Right. Because my father-in-law had helped and during the war. And so he received his visa in September. I just lookeded back at all of his history there and then they made it to America right before Halloween 'cause my father-in-law was like, I always remembered it because in the country of Asia, they're scared of halloween, scary Halloween stuff. And so when they came, they were like, oh my gosh. There were, Jesus says, I remember there were just a lot of zombies, right? And we were so scared because we were like, and so I always remember that about, you know, I'll fast forward it to 1997, right when he just turned, I believe 18 and very similar to Tika, you know, her husband too. And a lot of times, in the early nineties, me even being the first generation American here, racism played a lot. And we all went through that piece and our parents not speaking English at the same time, they were going to school themselves so that they can learn our English language, right. And they weren't able to teach us growing up. So we had to kind of fend for ourselves. And I would say my husband he went out with some friends. He did not commit the crime. But of course now that is brought back to him, he understood about his particular case is second attempt, home invasion. Nobody was harmed. He was in the vehicle, in the backseat when he was caught. And he didn't wanna partake, but he didn't wanna stop them either, you know? 'cause to him it was like, if I don't partake, then I have nothing to do with it. Right. Because if I do, then they might not be my friends anymore. I mean, it's just a part of growing up as a youth. But because he was there, and then would receive a court appointed attorney, and then provide it very similar to Tika's too. Had an interpreter, that was explaining to them, was provided bad legal advice. He had nothing, no knowledge about how this would impact his immigration status. He would take a plea, and it was advised by their attorney, take the plea it's easier, you know, and you probably serve less than a year. You'll be out, you'll only be in the county jail anyways 'cause you didn't really commit the crime and technically it should have been a misdemeanor. But because you're an accomplice , that kind of falls under this category. So he took the plea, he served 10 months in a county jail. He actually was released for good behavior. He even finished his probation soon because he paid all of his stuff off. And he even finished a youth advocate program, a youth training program for anybody that committed crimes between the age of 18 to 21. I actually just saw this form the other day and I was reading it and it talks about, you know, the one thing about our parents, experiencing the war and coming to America, they don't talk about it. And a lot of us are from communist countries . We're, we are very afraid to voice our voices, because someone can take action. And our parents never talked about it. And I read what he wrote to his, youth coordinator, and he wrote, he felt so bad about what he did. He created disappointment for his parents and he understands now after his parents told him, there are sacrifices that got us here to America. And he literally wrote all of this down, he's going to be a better person, is what he wrote. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to make my parents proud now that I understand their sacrifices. And, they asked him, well what was your upbringing like? And in one sentence, he wrote, poor, right? So he wrote, poor and the coordinator wrote on the bottom of his comments said, Lou is remorseful for what has happened or for what ha what has happened, and very remorseful and he wants to be a better person. I have no other questions. The training is complete. He doesn't need any further, support and believes that he will move forward to be a better person. That's what literally what they wrote on the document. Then fast forwarding to 1999 , after everything was done and he served, that's when, immigration showed up at his house. And from there moved forward to explain to him what had happened. And once that happened, of course him and I would meet in 2000, and then we'd be married in 2001. Right? So we'd celebrate. Almost 24 and a half years of marriage. Right? So we did appeal his case in the humanitarian piece of what this meant for Lou during the time where we all fled the country. Once we were, once the monks were declared enemy of the state by the LDR in Laos, we fled. And once we fled, it's well documented that there was a little bit over 400,000 of us there right after all the genocide and the killings of the Hmong there was probably less than 45,000 of us left, right? And so once we understood a lot of that, we wanted to do better. We wanted to really service our community, right? So. Fast forwarding it. We appealed the case. The case was then denied I believe in 2002. And even in his letters, in his appeal letters, general Vink Powell, which led the, Hmongs during, in the war, even had a letter in there where he, to also pled why Hmongs need to stay here in America, right. And why we need to bring the rest of our people to this country. The reality is our whole family, Lou's whole family was wiped out. We don't have anybody, Lou doesn't have anyone, right? And so you know, that goes to Tikas thing too. There's nobody there. And, going back to the case once it was denied in 2002, of course he then. Was forced to reach out to the embassy and reached out to the embassy and was denied, entry into Thailand 'cause that's where he was born. We're stateless too, just like Tikas husband. We were denied by Thailand. We were also denied by Laos stating that we are not a citizen of theirs. They do not allow or welcome any sort of entry. And then in 2006, that's when they actually took his green card was in 2006 and then we prompt again we were denied. And then in 2008 we were denied a third time and that's when his immigration officer was like, just move on and start your life. Laos and Thailand, will never sign a repatriation act with America because of you guys, because of the Hmong people, what you guys have done to their country, making it the most bombed country during the war without even being a part of the war. So therefore, they will never allow you guys or accept you guys back. And so we were like, okay. So we moved forward and then in 2014, this immigration officer, which we was doing yearly checkups at this time, was like, Hey go get your citizenship, get your green card. They're like you're doing so good. You know, you probably could have a chance to get it. That's when we moved forward to apply for citizenship and for all we did for the green card and then for citizenship. And of course we were denied in 2015 and we know how expensive this is. You pay $10,000 outright, you don't get that money back. You just have to go at it again, right? And so, uh, we decided that, you know what, we're gonna get his case expunged, and so. We got his case expunged in 2018, no questions asked. It was very straightforward. Once it was expunged, we continued, with our lives. Very involved in the community. And we had all of our children by that time already, so we had six kids already. So fast forwarding to that, and then leading up to his detainment, which this year we even called his immigration officer and he was like, Hey, don't worry about it, Lou, we're moving you over to Grand Rapids and you should be fine. Just make sure that you stay outta trouble, continue to follow your stock and I think what triggered it was when we applied for his work permit in April. Because he was supposed to, he always meets his immigration officer at the end of the year, and we renewed his work permit is what triggered it. And so of course, the money was cashed out, everything the checks went through while we were receiving that, he was gonna be here, everything was gonna be fine. And then leading up to July 15th where he was detained at work, early morning of six 30 in the morning, the detained officer they they told him that they know who he is to the community, so they have to do it this way because they don't want any problems. They don't want media, they don't want reporters. He did play with them. He did ask them because he rode his motorcycle for some weird reason. He has not taken his bike out, his motorcycle out in the last three years. But for some reason that night he was like, I just wanna take my bike. So he took his bike that night and when ICE told him, do you have somebody come get your bike? You need to call somebody to come get your bike. And he was like, nobody in my family rides motorcycles. Like we don't, I don't have anyone to come get my bike. And I think there was some empathy and compassion for him. He was like, okay, let me check on something. Because my husband was like, can I just take my bike back? I've got six kids. I've got my grandma at home and my parents are also at my house right now. I just wanna see them and I just wanna take my bike back. So they asked him, if we let you go, we asked will you like please don't run. Right? And so they followed my husband home and my husband literally called me at 6 37 in the morning and he was like, Hey, ICE is, here they got me. So I'm like, what? What's going on? So it was just so surreal. I was so shocked. And so it's about a 30 minute drive from his workplace back to our house. And um, when he got there, um, they, there were already officers, like there were, it was packed tight in our driveway. So our driveway's pretty far up because we live in the country. And so, there were like five or six cop cars there too. So we had to walk about half a mile down to go see him. They wouldn't allow him to enter where our home was. And the officer told, my husband, told him that they're so sorry. They have to do it this way. They know who he is. They don't want any problems, they don't want any reports in media out here. And I will say my experience was a little bit different from others. They did take their mask off when they took him in, they were respectful so that part is that much. They even, you know, talk to my two older boys like, “Hey, you guys have money. I could put the money in your dad's account.” We're, take him into Grand Rapids, we're gonna process him, and then we're gonna take him to the detention center, which is gonna be involved in Michigan. So they were very open about these steps, what they were doing with him, at least that much. But I will say that it was my grandma, of course she has chronic pulmonary disease stage four. So at that point we, we couldn't haul her fast enough because we only saw him for like maybe a quick minute, and that was it. And so they did ask us to turn around because they had to take him back and they didn't want my, our little ones to see them cuffing him. Miko Lee: They actually said, Anne, we don't want any media to be watching this? Ann Vue: I don't want any problems. Miko Lee: Mm. And and your husband is also quite well known in the Hmong community, right? Ann Vue: He is Miko Lee: and so probably, they were worried about folks coming out and protesting. Is that, do you think that was the case? Ann Vue: That's what I'm assuming, because I don't remember their exact words saying media, but I do remember they were saying that they didn't want people around, they didn't want to create issues for the community.I am assuming that correct, because if he would've gotten the letter just like everybody did, which everybody then would receive the letter on Friday, and because my husband is a community leader, he is the Hmong Family Association's president, we restart receiving. Many, many calls where everybody just wanted to talk to Lou 'cause they needed to know what's going on, how to handle, what to do. And so at that moment I realized, oh my gosh, they detained my husband first this way. And then everybody else got a letter. Miko Lee: And the ICE officer that he had been checking in with routinely has, have you all been in touch with that same ICE officer? Ann Vue: He has been, I think in the last seven or eight years.Yeah. It's been the same guy. Miko Lee: But has he been in touch with him since he was detained? Ann Vue: He hasn't. Miko Lee: Has not, no. So they had different people come in even, 'cause he was the person that said everything's okay, keep going with your life. Ann Vue: Oh yeah. Miko Lee: And so no contact with him whatsoever since the detention? Ann Vue: No. Miko Lee: Can you give a little bit of an update of Lou's case and what's going on with him right now? Ann Vue: I don't know as much. Maybe I may have to have Aisa respond to the legality piece around it. 'cause I know we're, they've been doing, working around the clock and working hard on strategy. Miko Lee: Okay. Thank you so much, Aisa. Before we move into that, I just wanna point out, for all of our listeners, how many similarities there are in these two cases. And in both of these, you know, these amazing women are here supporting their spouses, both, spouses born in refugee camps. Dealing with intergenerational trauma from families that had to escape ethnic cleansing or involved in a war, came into the United States under, legal properties through refugee resettlement acts, made mistakes as young people, partially due to culture and wanting to fit in. They served their time, they paid their dues. They were racially profiled to be able to actually be in those positions that they were in. They suffered from incredible immigration policy failure with bad advice, with a system that's broken. And now both of them are detained. Not yet deported, but detained. Many of the community members have already been deported and they're facing statelessness. And we're seeing this not just with Bhutanese and Hmong folks, but with Mien and Lao and Haitian and El Salvadorian. And we could fill in the blank of how many other peoples in other communities are facing this. So, we also know that these private detention centers where people are being held, are making millions and millions of dollars, and it's connected into our corrupt political system that's in place right now. We also know and Aisa, I'm wondering if you could, talk about the case, but also about some of the deals that we think have had to be made with Laos and Bhutan in order for these deportations to even take place. So Aisa from Asian Law Caucus, I'm gonna pass it to you to go over some of the legal ramifications. Aisa Villarosa: Of course, Miko, and thank you for it for the context. And there are so many parallels that we as advocates must uplift because this is not the time to be divided. This is really the time to build solidarity that we've long known needs to happen. And, and this is really the moment. What Miko is referring to is, uh, largely, um, something that we've observed around the travel bans. So. Earlier this year, right around the time that the Trump administration took hold, there was a draft travel ban list that leaked across a number of media outlets, the Times, et cetera, and the same countries we're talking about today, Bhutan, Laos. These were historically not countries that were subject to sanctions, like the travel ban, and yet here they were. And so a lot of us were scratching our heads and asking, you know, what, why is this happening? Our theory, and this is a theory that is now also manifesting in a number of FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act requests that are submitted from Asian Law Caucus to departments like the State Department ice, the Department of Homeland Security. Asking the same question that Tika and Anne are asking, which is, how are these deportations even happening? Because they were not happening until this year. And what very likely happened was a bit of a quid pro quo. So in removing Bhutan, removing Laos from this list where they could be sanctioned as a country, there was likely some backdoor deal that took place between the US State Department and Bhutanese officials and the US officials, where essentially there was some form of an agreement that there would be an acceptance or a supposed acceptance of a certain number of folks from these communities. That is why around March, around April for the Bhutanese refugee community, for example, we started seeing pickups very similar to Mohans case, where, many people who had perhaps made some mistakes in their youth or had really old criminal convictions were swept off the streets and thrust into these really rapid deportation proceedings. I don't even know if proceedings is the right word, because there essentially was no proceeding. You know, the Immigration Court is very much a cloaked process. The immigration judge is kind of judge and jury wrapped up together, which is very different than many of us might turn on the TV and see something like Law and order. An immigration court works a very different way where this piece of paper, this final removal order, basically gives ICE a lot of bandwidth to make these deportations happen. However, that doesn't mean we should just accept that this is happening. We know that just basic procedures of fairness are not being met. We know, too that in the case of, for example, the Bhutanese community ICE officers have come to the wrong house. And put a lot of people in fear. So racial profiling was happening even before this recent Supreme Court decision, which essentially now condones racial profiling, right? As criteria that the ICE can use. I also just wanted to talk about this trend too, that we're seeing with so many cases. It happened to Lou, it happened to Mohan, where in someone's underlying criminal court case, maybe they were given a court appointed attorney. In many cases, they were not told of the immigration impacts of, say, taking a plea. There is a Supreme Court case called Padilla versus Kentucky and basically the law shifted such that in many cases there now is a duty for a court appointed public defender to actually talk to folks like Mohan and Lou about the immigration consequences of their plea. So when Tika mentioned that there's something called a post-conviction relief effort for Mohan. That's happening in Georgia. This is very much what that legal defense looks like, where, an expert attorney will look at that very old court record, see if those rights were violated, and also talk to Mohan and make sure did that violation happen and is that grounds for reopening an immigration case. For Lou, there is a really mighty pardoning campaign that's brewing in the state of Michigan. So in Michigan, governor Gretchen Whitmer does have the authority to in some cases expedite a pardon in process. We're hoping that this public swelling of support from Mohan will result in a pardon, because importantly, even if Mohans conviction was expunged, which can be very helpful in, for example, state court, arenas, things like, applying for certain jobs. Unfortunately, in the immigration arena the expungement does not have that same weight as say a vacating, or a motion to vacate that criminal record. So it's super frustrating because, so much of this turns ethically, morally on- do we, as people believe in second chances, and I know most people do, and [00:35:00] yet here we are really. Based on a technicality. I also just want to name too that Lou as a person is both a natural organizer and he is a spiritual guide of his community. So something that many folks don't know is because of so much of the trauma that Anne talked about, both from, supporting the Americans during the Secret War, many Hmong folks who came to the States, they actually in some cases died in their sleep because of this, almost unexplained weight of the trauma, right? And so it almost underscores. The importance of Lou, not just to his family, but this family is a collective family, right? He's both a mentor for so many, he's a spiritual guide for so many. And so you know, him being away from his family, away from community, it's like a double, triple wound. And then for Mohan, I'd love to uplift this memory I have of , a moment in June when Tika gave us a call, and at that point, Mohan had called Tika and said, they're taking me, I'm being deported. And at that point, they were removing Mohan from the ICE facility in Butler, Ohio and transporting him to. At first we had no idea. Then we learned it was, toward the Detroit airport or that deportation to Bhutan and Tika was forced to essentially delay her childbirth. It was very much in the range of when she was due to give birth to their daughter. But because the clock was ticking, Tika drove to Butler, literally begged for Mohan's life as our organizing and advocacy and legal team was trying to get together this emergency stay of deportation. That fortunately came through at the 11th hour. But the fact that Mohan remains in this facility in St. Clair, Michigan, that he's never held his daughter is unacceptable, is ridiculous. And I think so much of these two cases almost, this invisible brotherhood of pain that I know Ann has talked to me about that. Because Lou right now has been in a couple facilities. He is organizing, he's doing his thing and actually supporting folks while also just trying to keep himself well, which is no easy feat to do in so many of these facilities. Especially because, in Alexandria, for example, which is a facility in Louisiana. We know that folks are sleeping on cement floors. We know that folks are not being fed, that there's a lot of human rights violations going on. And here is Lou still continuing to use his voice and try to advocate for the folks around him. Miko Lee: Aisa thank you so much for putting that into context, and we'll put links in the show notes for how folks can get involved in both of these cases. One is, Rising Voices has a call to action to reach out to Governor Whitmer for that. Pardon in Campaign for Lou. So we encourage folks to do that. And in terms of Mohan, there's a GoFundMe to help support Tika and the immense lawyer fees, which we discussed that are needed. And also a letter writing campaign to the ICE director Kevin Roff, to try and release Mohan and also Lou. These are really important things that are happening in our community, and thank you for being out there. Thank you for talking and sharing your stories. We really appreciate you. And also, just briefly, I'd love us for us to talk for a minute about how many folks in our Asian American communities, we don't wanna talk about mistakes that we have made in the past because we might consider that shameful. And therefore, in both of these communities, when we started organizing, it was really hard at first to find people to come forth and share their stories. So I wonder if both of you can give voice to a little about that, the power you found in yourself to be able to come forward and speak about this, even though some other folks in the community might not feel comfortable or strong enough to be able to talk. Tika, can you speak to that? Tika Basnet: Yeah. So what makes me really strong, and I wanna see that my husband case is because he was 17, people can make mistake and from those mistake, if people are learning. Then I think Americans should consider, 'cause my husband did make mistake and I wish that time he knew the rules and regulation. I wish like somebody taught him that he's not supposed to go somebody else property, like around in backyard. And I wish he was been in the United States like more than one and a half year. I wish, if he was like more than two years, three years. And I think that time he, from high school, he could learn. You know, he's not supposed to go there. He was just been in the United States like one and a half year just going to high school. Nobody taught him. His parent doesn't even speak English. Until now, he doesn't even, they doesn't even speak, like nobody in our community knew rules and regulation. So no, basically that he doesn't have guide, like mentor to taught him like, and even though he did make mistake and he's really sorry, and from those mistake learning a lot, and he never get into trouble, like after 11 years, he was clean, he work, he pay taxes. And I think, that is the reason that I really wanna come forward. You know, people can make mistake, but learning from those mistake that changed people life. And, and I think, the reason that I'm coming forward is because organization like Asian Law Caucus, ARU, and, Miko, a lot of people helped me. You know, they taught me like people can make mistake and, I think we shouldn't be same. And I really wanna give example to my daughter, you know, that, you are fighting for justice and you shouldn't fear. I think, what is right is right. What is wrong is wrong. But if somebody's make mistake and they are not, doing that mistake again, I think the people can get a second chance. And I think my husband deserves second chance and he's 30 years old. He has a family, he has a wife, children and he deserved to be here. We came here legally, my husband came here. Legally, we, promise that we'll get home and this is our home. We wanna stay here and I really want my husband be home soon so he can play with her daughter to play with his daughter. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Tika. Ann I wonder if you could talk to the strength that it takes for you to come forward and speak about your husband and your family. Ann Vue: I'm a community leader with my husband too, right? I would say that there was a moment when he was first detained where I was in complete silence. I was so shocked. It took my attorney, Nancy, just talking to me about it. Of course, back to what Aisa said earlier in our communities, we're afraid. I was so scared. I didn't know what to do. It took me visiting my husband in Baldwin and letting him know that, hey, a bunch of community members are now reaching out and I think it's hit our community. And that's that. At that moment, he was like, you have to say something. You have to say something you have to make noise because you have a, 50% chance, right? We have a 50 50 chance. 50%. They're gonna send me 50%. You're gonna feel bad if you don't say anything, right? 50 here, 50 there. It doesn't matter. But a hundred percent regret if you don't say something. I thought about it and he was like, well, go out there, be my voice. He's like, you've always been my voice. You got this right. And so when, I didn't say no to Nancy. 'cause she really wanted to talk to our rep Mai you know about this. And , Mai and I are pretty close too. And, I just knew if I said anything, Maya's gonna be like mm-hmm. All the way. Right? So I just let Nancy help me, and my most vulnerable time. And I'm glad that she did. And I'm glad that we did get this out. It is the most important thing for us, and I've been, I will say what keeps me going is all of those that have been impacted by this, from people like Tika. I have many, I call 'em sisters. We're all in a lot of these group chats together. They've been also keeping me going. Our amazing team of attorneys and everybody just strategizing through this unprecedented time. It's really everyone's voices. I get to talk to Lou daily. It's definitely not cheap, but he gets to share each story of each person. I believe that everybody has a story and they might not be as lucky as maybe Tika or my husband, but at least now I have their story. I will be their voice. I will tell each person's story, each name, each alien number that I track down, my husband's even literally learned how to count in Spanish, just so he can give them like my phone number in Spanish in case they need to call an emergency. Oh, I'm be getting a lot of calls. Right. I would say that that is what keeps me going because I think that Tika and I and many others are, hoping that there is going to be a better day, a brighter day. I hope that everyone can see that, our children are American, right? Our children, they deserve to have their fathers and their mothers. They deserve to grow with these parents. And with that being said, the most important thing to me is they're not just bystanders. They're literally the future of America. I don't want them growing up with trauma, with trying to ask me questions like, well mom, if we're refugees and we helped, Americans as allies, and we come to this country, why is this payback like this? There's a moral obligation that has to be there and they're gonna grow up and they're gonna be trauma by this. I've got children right now that's been talking about joining the National Guard. It speaks volume about what happens to my husband. He's championed the Hmong, Michigan Special Gorilla unit, the Hmong veterans here in the last two years, really with helping them through resolutions, tributes, making sure that they have things, that they are out there, that people now know them, they are finally recognized. This puts my husband at great danger by sending him back, because now he's championed the veterans here. He celebrates our veterans here. So it's a moral obligation. And I hope Tika, I hope that, and this is to every child, I hope that every child, they deserve their father's presence. There are many people who don't even have their father's presence and they wish their fathers were around. And our fathers wanna be around. And I hope that our daughter, I only have one daughter too, that someday they can, their fathers can be a part of their, the American culture. So I, I hope that. We get that opportunity and I hope that somebody stop being scared, but turn around and help us. Help us. We came here legally, minor stuff, long decade old. Even lose share with me. This detainment has been worse than when he was, when he did time back in 1997. And I just hope that somebody hears our podcast, Miko. Thank you. And, Aisa and Tika. And they turn and they have some compassion and help us because this is the tone that we're setting for the future of our American children. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. Tika, you wanna add? Tika Basnet: Yes, I really wanna talk about what kind of husband Mohan is. Even though like he detained for five month and I cannot. I put lot of money in his account and there was one guy, I think his family cannot support him. And for me, like it is really hard. I'm not working. But even my husband called me like, you don't need to put like money in my account, but can you please can you please put money in his account? He did not eat food. His family did not have money. I can survive without eating food. But, I think his story is really touching me. And that time, like my husband was crying listening to that guy story in detention center and then I did put like $50 in his account. And my husband is giving person like, he love to give even though, he struggle a lot, even though, he doesn't know what will happen when he get deport. But, him saying other guy story. Does make him cry. I think this is the reason that I really wanna come forward. My husband is giving person, he's lovely person, he's caring person. And that is the reason I wanna come forward. I want people to hear our voice, rather than silent. Because right now people know our story. But if I was silent back , then I don't know whether my husband was already disappear. I don't know whether he gonna die torture or maybe he will expel within 24 hours. I have no idea. So I think, my husband is number one support system for me, and I think because of him that I'm here sharing his story and yeah, like for years I had wonderful time with him. We build our dream and until 2025, our dream is destroy. I'm trying to build again. I'm hoping, like my husband is coming home soon and I'm hoping that this will be the last time that he will get detained. I hope that this will be the end. I don't want him to get detained or deported again. I'm really tired. I don't know what to do. I'm hopeless. I hope listening to my story and Anna's story that separating family is not good. Like it is affecting not only one person but his whole community, whole family. We deserve to get our husband back. Because it is not only about the wife that is fighting for husband, it is the children. , They're so small, they born here and we cannot raise alone, we cannot work. We have things to pay. And paying those bills and taking care of child alone is really difficult. It is giving depression like it's been five month, like I went through postpartum depression, I went through trauma and I don't wanna deal anymore. Like I don't have courage to do this anymore. We need our husband back. Miko Lee: Thank you. And I think both of your husbands are also main caregivers for parents that are ailing in both cases. It's a really important thing that we are intergenerational communities and as you both said, it's not just about the children, but it's also about parents and brothers and sisters and community members as well. Thank you so much for lifting up your stories. I just wanna go back for one more thing. We talked briefly about the crazy expensive lawyer fees that have come up for families that they've been dealing with this, and then also Tika was just bringing up about detention and commissary fees. Can you talk a little bit about the prison industrial complex and the fees that are associated? As Anne was saying, just calling Lou every day the costs that are associated with those things. Many people that don't have a family member that's incarcerated don't know about that. Can you share a little bit about what that system is? Aisa Villarosa: Yeah, absolutely Miko. And, just to underscore, a big theme from this conversation, it is that the US made commitments and they have broken them, both with, as Anne talked about, the refugee experience is one that is made possible through US commitment of acknowledging what, people have survived, what they have given to the country. And to look at this moment where folks are being removed to countries where not only do they have zero ties to, don't speak the language, but, especially in the case of the Bhutanese refugee community, as Tika mentioned, it is [00:52:00] truly a double expulsion. So the fact that we have well-documented testimonials of folks really deported from Bhutan after they're removed there into these life-threatening conditions that in some cases have actually resulted in a community member passing away. A community member passed away in large part because of the failure of the US to both care for them while in detention. So going back to that prison complex, but also just putting them in such a harrowing situation. In another instance, a community member was found after wandering for over a hundred miles on foot. So this is not, deportation and the story ends. This is deportation. And, there is a family that is grieving and thinking through next steps, there is, this call to not have borders, break us the way that this country is trying to do. And to say a little bit about the fees, USCIS, there, there has not been a point yet in history where so many changes and charges hurting families have been ushered in, But for this year, and so to give a couple examples of that – asylum cases for one, these often take many, many years through this administration. Now, families have to pay a cost yearly for each year that your asylum application, languishes because we're also seeing that those same folks who are supposed to process these applications are either being laid off or they're being militarized. So something like USCIS where this was where one would go to apply for a passport. Now the same department is literally being handed guns and they're now taking folks during naturalization interviews. Other avenues to challenge your removal. Like I mentioned a motion to reopen. All these things used to be fairly affordable. Now they can cost many thousands of dollars on top of the attorney fees. So something that's been quite challenging for groups like Asian Law Caucus where we do have attorneys representing folks in removal proceedings, there's often this misperception that oh it's costing so much money. Attorneys are pocketing cash. And unfortunately there are some situations where some attorneys have been known to take advantage of families in this desperate moment. But for many, many attorneys who are in this mix, they're experts at this work. They're trying to do the right thing. They're both overwhelmed and they're seeing these new charges, which make the battle really even more difficult. So to turn it back to the listeners, I would say that as powerless as this moment can make us feel everyone is bearing witness. Hopefully the listeners today can take in Anne's story, can take in Tikas story and whatever power one has in their corner of the world, this is the moment to use that. Whether it's your voice, whether it's learning more about a community, maybe you're learning about for the first time. This is really the moment to take action. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I really wanna thank you all for being here with me today, for sharing your personal stories, your personal pain, and for recognizing that this is happening. We deeply believe that we need to keep our families together. That is really important. It is written into the very basis of this American country about redemption and forgiveness. And this is what we're talking about for incidents that happened, misunderstandings that happened when these folks were young men, that they have paid for their, they have paid for their time, and yet they're being punished again, these promises that were broken by this American government, and we need to find [00:56:00] ways to address that. I really wanna deeply thank each of you for continuing to be there for sharing your voice, for protecting one another, for being there and standing up for your family and for our community. Thank you for joining me today. Check out our Apex Express Show notes to find out about how you can get involved. Learn about the Rising Voices campaign for Lou Young and Mohan Khaki's GoFundMe and please help to support these organizations working every day to support detained and deported people. Asian Law Caucus, Asian Refugees, United Balo Project in Vietnam. Collective Freedom in Vietnam and Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee and new light Wellness in Cambodia. November 1st and second people nationwide are joining the Disappeared in America Weekend of Action to Stand Up for Immigrant Families and Defend Due Process. Actions include protests at Home [00:57:00] Depots, candlelight, freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events, honoring lives lost to detention. The following day on November 3rd, 4:00 PM Pacific Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time. Join us for We Belong here, Bhutanese and Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness, a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. Find out more in our show notes. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 10.16.25 – We Belong Here appeared first on KPFA.

This week, we witness the rise of the anti-socialist movement across 1905 and 1906. This movement affects much of Australia's political history across the next century, so this episode is key to understanding what comes next. In addition, we also discuss the deportation of Pacific Islanders from Queensland, and some more political moments!

Katherina Reiche bricht wahrscheinlich geltendes Recht. Außerdem geht es um Geflüchtete im Pazifikund die Schaffung eines neuen Visums. Am Ende der Folge ein Gastbeitrag von Jacob Rohm, Verkehrsexperte bei der NGO Germanwatch zum „Autogipfel“ im Bundeskanzleramt. Das alles in dieser Folge KLIMANEWS am Freitag, den 10. Oktober 2025.Weiterlesen:Lagipoiva Cherelle Jackson: ‘Humanitarian' visa must be created for Pacific Islanders displaced by climate crisis, experts say (The Guardian)Amnesty International: ‘Navigating injustice': Climate displacement from the Pacific Islands of Tuvalu and Kiribati to Aotearoa New Zealand - Amnesty InternationalKlaus Stratmann: Energie: Gutachten sieht Back-up-Kraftwerke nicht mit EU-Recht vereinbar (Handelsblatt)taz: Fossile Energie: Umwelthilfe hält Reiches Gaskraft-Pläne für rechtswidrig | taz.deDeutsche Umwelthilfe: https://www.duh.de/fileadmin/user_upload/download/Pressemitteilungen/Energie/Thema_Gas/Hintergrundpapier_Fossile_Gaskraftwerke__Foerderung_verstoesst_gegen_EU-Recht.pdfWir freuen uns über Feedback und Kommentare zu den Themen der Folge direkt auf Spotify, auf Instagram, Twitter oder in unserem Podcast-Telegram-Kanal. Allgemeine Anregungen oder Fragen? Schreib uns! redaktion@klimanews-podcast.de. Die täglich wichtigsten Klima-Nachrichten-Artikel findest du außerdem in unserem Hauptkanal auf Telegram. Empfehle diesen Podcast weiter! Mehr Infos findest du hier.Hier ist der Link zum Spendentool Betterplace. Danke für Deine Unterstützung!Redaktion: Johann Lensing, Linus Nolte (Redaktion vom Dienst) Moderation: Nils ErbenProduktion & Schnitt: Anna Huthmann

Host Natalie Pierce updates listeners on two past guests and introduces them to a new one.First, she highlights Daniel Robinson, a guest from the first episode of “The FutureWork Playbook” in 2021. Daniel is the co-founder and CEO of Red 6, a company that has revolutionized pilot training by bringing live in-cockpit AR training to the US Air Force. Red 6 has been “outrageously successful” since Daniel's visit, Natalie explains, including securing major contracts with the US Air Force and partnering with Northrop Grumman.Second, she spotlights Samir Menon, CEO at Dexterity AI. When he visited back in the first season, Dexterity AI was doing groundbreaking work on how robotics could support and power human capabilities. It has since “transformed from a promising robotic startup into a global leader in warehouse automation,” Natalie says. Earlier this year, for example, the company secured $95 million in funding, reflecting strong investor confidence and accelerating development.Finally, Natalie welcomes Megan Ruan for the latest installment of the podcast's series featuring 30 Under 30 industry partners.As the child of Asian immigrants, Megan remembers a pivotal early-career moment when she was invited to a dinner packed with leaders from across industries, all focused on elevating Asian entrepreneurs. That night, surrounded by changemakers from entertainment to publishing, she knew she wanted in. “I just wanted to join the movement—whatever that looked like,” she tells Natalie.Megan went on to help build Gold House Foundation's venture arm, Gold House Ventures. By championing founders from the Asian and Pacific Islander community, the team has invested in 78 startups, powered an accelerator supporting over 115 companies, and helped unlock more than $2 billion in follow-on capital. Tune in to hear Megan's story and how she guides founders to tell their stories that generate investor commitment.Episode HighlightsGold House Ventures works hand-in-hand with Gold House Foundation, routing fund profits to support the nonprofit's efforts to move the needle for Asian Pacific Islander and diverse communities.The team blends “cultural insight and distribution advantage” with the usual investment metrics, putting founder-market-culture fit front and center rather than just product-market fit.As AI streamlines product development, Megan is clear: Founders need to show traction before fundraising. "You need to go out and test and iterate. With so many prototyping tools at your disposal, raising a pre-seed round without having tested the market is near impossible."Portfolio companies like Weee! and ChowBus tap into cultural affinity and nostalgia, forging strong loyalty among underserved users.Gold House focuses on “hidden giant markets”— industries overlooked by others where startups can gain a foothold before the bigger players take notice.

Elizabeth Cronlund is joined by Marie Moy to confront some common narratives about Asian American and Pacific Islander populations. They take a look at some of the history of AAPI in the United States, and reflect on the ways that history informs where we find ourselves today. They also share some ways we can build coalitions and stand in solidarity so we are able to move forward together.Learn more about CCDA's AAPI Network at ccda.org/aapi. And make plans to join us at the CCDA Conference this November at ccda.org/conference.Marie Moy serves as the Director of Operations and is a member of the Restorative Practices training and implementation team at Erie County Restorative Justice Coalition (ECRJC). ECRJC's mission is to promote racial and social justice through Restorative Practices, providing training, coaching, consulting, and restorative responses, including Restorative Justice Conferencing in lieu of traditional punitive measures. Marie grew up in a small town in northern Indiana, where her parents owned a Chinese-American restaurant. As children, she and her sisters attended an independent Baptist church. Marie first learned of Christian Community Development while attending Renovation Church in Buffalo in 2010. She participated in CCDA's El Camino del Inmigrante in 2016 with approximately 70 others to bring attention to the plight of immigrants. Marie is a graduate of Northeastern Seminary at Roberts Wesleyan College in Rochester, NY, with an MA in Theology & Social Justice from Indiana University, Bloomington, with a BS in Biochemistry. Marie integrates her background in science and theology to bring just practices to the operations of organizations, and is particularly interested in creating spaces without traditional hierarchy that are inclusive and supportive of marginalized communities. As a second-generation Asian American, Marie is passionate about immigration reform in addition to her work with ECRJC to end mass incarceration and restore relationships and communities. Marie is married with two adult children and a small Cavalier King Charles/poodle mix named Chani. She is a member of the CCDA Board and Leadership Cohort 8, and the John R. Oishei Foundation Karen Lee Spalding Oishei Fellows for Leaders of Color. She is embarking on a sabbatical to spend time with God and an exploration of embodied restorative practices after a long season in nonprofit work.Based in Orlando, FL, Elizabeth Cronlund is the Partnership Development Manager with UNDIVDED, an organization that is activating communities for racial healing and justice. She has more than 15 years of experience in congregational ministry as a Christian Community Developer. Within CCDA, she helps lead the AAPI Network and is a contributing writer for CCDA's Education Equity Handbook. Elizabeth is a Certified Nonprofit Professional (CNP) and attends Northern Seminary.Connect with CCDA on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Follow CCDA on YouTube.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – September 25, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

For arts scholar and curator, Aunty Sana Reana Balai, living as part of the Pacific Island diaspora in Australia offered her new opportunities – and challenges.Carving out a new life abroad where she rarely saw other Pacific Islanders, Aunty shares stories on how she kept herself grounded and connected to culture, whilst removed from her beloved homeland of Buka Island, in Bougainville.And how her yearning to see other Black people led her to an Olympic legend.This week's episode of Sistas, Let's Talk is a repeat of the show broadcast on 5th December 2025

HEADLINE: Tupaia's Chart and the Future of Pacific Archaeology AUTHOR NAME: Nicholas Thomas SUMMARY: During Cook's first voyage, the Tahitian priest and navigator Tupaia created a unique diagram—"not quite a map"—detailing many Polynesian islands. This chart, compiled from personal voyages and traditional history, reflects the extraordinary geographic knowledge and navigational ability of Polynesians. Modern archaeology is rapidly advancing, giving increased space to the expertise of Pacific Islanders themselves. 1900 PALAU

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host Miko Lee speaks with author, activist Michelle MiJung Kim about her new Podcast, I Feel That Way Too. Then we listen to the first episode. Michelle MiJung Kim Website I Feel That Way Too podcast     I FEEL THAT WAY TOO show Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to APEX Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee, and tonight I'll be talking with author, speaker, and activist, Michelle MiJung Kim, about the new podcast. So we get to listen after the interview to the very first episode, and you get a little behind the scenes with activist Michelle MiJung. Kim, stay tuned. welcome, Michelle MiJung Kim to Apex Express. I'm so excited to chat with you. You are an award-winning author, activist, and now a podcast host. Hello girl. Welcome. Yay. Michelle MiJung Kim: Hello. Thank you so much for having me, Miko. I'm so excited. Miko Lee: I wanna start with my big question, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Michelle MiJung Kim: Hmm. What a deep question that I can go on forever about. My people are, first and foremost people who are in my life, who have supported me throughout. Everything that I've gone through in my life, including my friends and family who have different lineages, people, most of the people that I hold near and dear carry with them, a deep understanding of their historical trauma, their familial trauma, and people who are courageous enough to share them [00:02:00] with me. So that really creates this bond that I have with my people. A lot of my people are in the queer and trans community and in the physical space of the Ohlone land, also known as Oakland, California. A lot of my community rooted in my Asian American identity. Miko Lee: Love this. My follow up, what is the legacy you carry with you from your people? Michelle MiJung Kim: The legacy that I carry from my people that jumps out to me right now is the legacy of my grandparents. My grandparents were both born in Korea. My grandpa from the north, my grandma from the south, and I am always thinking about how my grandpa was fighting for the Korea's liberation from Japanese occupation, and he was a writer himself. I always saw him writing and he had [00:03:00] stacks of paper ready to be published, but he ended up not being able to publish before he passed. So my book dedication starts with my gratitude to my grandparents and my grandpa specifically. The legacy of his work, his spirit, his love for philosophy, social justice language I carry with me. My grandmother, who was part of the first class of women in her generation to go to a university she was a badass matriarch of our family and her energy, her audacity, her courage, her confidence in her herself and her community is what I try to channel. I think about them every day. Miko Lee: Ugh. I love that. I'm wondering if you could share a little bit about your book. Michelle MiJung Kim: My book is called The Wake Up Closing The Gap Between Good Intentions and Real Change and really it's part memoir, part [00:04:00] principles of Social justice that I hold near to my heart. I really wanted to write a book that could be timeless and that could put into accessible ways how we can embody these values that are important for our collective liberation. So much of the social justice work that I encountered throughout my education journey had been highly intellectualized and theoretical and sometimes not unpacked in ways that feel human. I wanna see how people are struggling to hold social justice values while living their daily lives. How sometimes it gets challenging to embody the values that we say are important to us because it asks us to trade off our comfort and safety sometimes. I wanted to be really honest about my experience trying to live in alignment with my values, including the parts of my own contradictions and struggles and paradoxes that I've had to navigate. Miko Lee: Such a powerful [00:05:00] book for the time of now in that it does have the personal story, but then also recognizing what's happening in our world. It's really action forward. Tell me how you got from this book to creating a podcast series called. I feel that way too. Tell me what inspired this whole series? Michelle MiJung Kim: I think it is an extension of the work that I've been doing, which really marries personal storytelling and social justice values. I Feel that way too, exploring these tricky life questions like, can we be friends if we politically disagree? What if I'm not above revenge, even though I am a self-proclaimed abolitionist? Why do I have this urge to, be vengeful and why do I feel gleeful when people that have done harm get punished, right? Am I supposed to sleep with one person for the rest of my life? Am I a bad daughter? These are all the questions that I've struggled [00:06:00] with. I wanted to have an opportunity to unpack them with raw honesty and with guests that could really help guide me in thinking about these things while trying to stay tethered to my values around social justice. I've always been a fan of audio storytelling. So this was the perfect opportunity to explore that, especially in an era where the world is constantly insisting we solve these issues in isolation and we deal with our traumas in shame and without each other's witnessing. This is my way of hopefully making people feel a little bit less alone in their struggles and also in a way that, helps us to build more courage and community through stories. Miko Lee: I binge the entire season. Super fun, super personal., I was wondering how did you decide on these topics? Did they come naturally [00:07:00] or did you create an arc? Tell me about your process. Michelle MiJung Kim: I had probably two, three pages long list of topics that I wanted to explore and we had to pick and narrow it down. I wanted to tackle questions that felt existential in the collective psyche. I look at and feel into the zeitgeist of what is happening in the world . These are the questions that I wanted to explore because of my own life, but also some of these questions bring up a lot of shame and tension. when I looked at other podcasts that were exploring similar topics, I just felt as though a lot of these issues were being talked about in a very intellectualized way, in a very theoretical way without the raw sort of personal storytelling aspect that I was craving. So this was my attempt at being, courageous and practicing what I preach and being able to share some of the more vulnerable [00:08:00] tensions that aren't typically explored in the public arena. Miko Lee: Oh wow. So two whole more pages for future seasons of shows to do. I was, struck by how vulnerable the episodes are, how they're so personal. The first one being around, supporting your single mom and around financial and really emotional stability that really struck me as being so very personal and deep. I just wonder, has your mom and dad listened to the series or particularly that episode and what has been any response? Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. Um, my dad, no, but my mom, yes. I wanted my mom to listen to it before it aired. 'cause I thought that was the only fair thing to do. I gave her the option also to not have this air if she didn't want it to go live. And I was. So [00:09:00] scared about how she was gonna receive it. And for the listeners, the story really goes deep into my struggle around prioritizing her needs over my desires, and constantly living in this. Feeling of guilt for not doing more to support my mom. And also our definition of love and sacrifice being entangled in ways that feel sometimes impossible to navigate. I had attempted to have this conversation years ago with my mom that like completely backfire that I talk about on the podcast and, since then, I just never broached the subject because I was so nervous about how she was gonna take it. , And my biggest fear was her feeling less loved and feeling, hurt by my honesty. And so when it came time for me to present this podcast to her, I was incredibly nervous. What ended up happening was we ended up listening to the episode together. She was sitting [00:10:00] right there on the couch behind me and the, I played the episode and I just couldn't look at her face. So instead of looking directly at her, I had my camera on , so I could look at her through my phone. And I had my back toward her, and within the first five minutes she started crying. So I would pause the episode, talk to her about what was coming up for her. We would cry, we would fight, we would argue, we would apologize and we would cry again. So the entire episode that's 30 minutes long, took us three hours to get through. Miko Lee: Wow. Michelle MiJung Kim: It was incredibly difficult emotionally. And it was probably one of the most pivotal interactions I've ever had with my mom. I've been able to be more honest than ever with her. [00:11:00] She got to also be honest in her reaction and response, and we were able to be really brave with our vulnerability, which we had never done because most of our lives, our love and , especially our pain was communicated through silence. Just pretending that we're not hurting because we don't wanna hurt the other person. Very Asian. It was hard, very Asian, but it was also really healing. Miko Lee: Wow. I would love, love, love a follow up episode with you interviewing your mom. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. I don't if request that. Miko Lee: I dunno if she'd be downed for that, but that would, I'm curious if you could share a little bit more about your needing to have your back toward her in the beginning and if that shifted over those three hours. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. I think it was my fear of my truth being seen by her , and the inability for me to face her [00:12:00] when I knew my truth was hurting her. Hmm. And I also didn't want to pressure her to react in a certain way when I'm looking at her. So I, I, I don't know if she knew that I was looking at her through my phone. But I think I really wanted her to have an honest reaction and, that scared me. So I, and so at some point in. Yeah, I did turn around after I saw her crying. I paused the episode and I looked at her and I said, well, what's coming up for you? And she, her first thing, the first thing that she said was, I just don't remember it that way. Which started a whole nother conversation right around how she remembers my childhood, from her vantage point. And I think it's only natural for a parent, for anyone to want to know that their child, was not [00:13:00] hurt by their choices and that they did the best that they could and that was enough. And I think it's really hard to make space for the possibility that their best. Also cause harm. Hmm. Without making them, one dimensionally a bad person or a bad mother. I think holding multiple truths like that can be so difficult , for anyone, but especially when it comes to the impact that our action has on our loved ones. Mm-hmm. So I think it was truly, shattering the image of what she thought was our childhood. And rewriting an entire history in her mind, in order to make space for my reality. And I think that took a lot of courage on her part, and also a lot of grace, that she had to extend to herself and me. Miko Lee: And by the end of that three hours, did you have a sense of resolve or a different [00:14:00] path moving forward? Michelle MiJung Kim: I think we didn't come to a hundred percent agreement on what happened, which I didn't expect. But there was certainly things that were said that we had never verbalized before around what was hard, what was painful, and what we kept from one another. And I think we needed time away from each other to really process that. So I think we did the best that we could. Actually that night we went to a concert together 'cause we already had tickets and we could not go. And we went, Miko Lee: what was the concert? Michelle MiJung Kim: We went to a K-pop concert, Bada, which is Miko Lee: Oh yeah. Michelle MiJung Kim: All like dancing. Miko Lee: Love her. Michelle MiJung Kim: So we just let out all of our angst , dancing and that was a good end to our night. Miko Lee: That's a great way to actually resolve dance it out. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah, exactly. We just dance it out. And then, at first it was a little awkward, but, we got over it. Mm-hmm. [00:15:00] Afterwards, she listened to the podcast on her own with a transcript because her first language is not English. She really wanted to make sure that she understood what she listened to. So she had the transcript in front of her and she was looking up words that she didn't understand. She said that really helped her to understand more of what, I was trying to say. I didn't expect this, but weeks later she just randomly said, I am really sorry. I did the best that I could and I didn't know how much you were carrying. That changed everything for me. I didn't expect that kind of acknowledgement and validation from her when I was putting out this episode when I was writing it. I truly just wanted to do justice to my own truth and make space for my stories in ways that I'd never done before. But to then receive her acknowledgement, of some of the things that [00:16:00] I talked about was. Truly invaluable and healing in ways that I didn't expect. That completely changed our relationship. I'm able to be a lot more honest with her and I feel less, guarded about, the most tender parts of me when I'm around her. Miko Lee: Wow, that's so powerful that one episode. How impactful. Thank you so much for sharing about that. the topics that rose to the top in your conversations? Every single one of them had such universality, the Oxford study then the talking about Gaza and the impact on your job, being friends with somebody that you disagree with politically, each of these topics, there's so much resonance. I'm wondering of the three pages you had to choose from, how did these float to the top? Michelle MiJung Kim: It was a tough one. I had a team that I talked to about which topics to prioritize and we all got votes [00:17:00] on which ones we wanted to talk about. Some I had to really push to get it in to the season. The one about, my open relationship journey, they were like, why the hell do , we wanna talk about this? For me it was like, it's not about how to do open relationship 101 or how to do poly 1 0 1. It's actually about desire. Right. How we get in touch with our desire and practice wanting and being able to practice wanting that is at the core of that episode. I really wanna talk about it because no one else was talking about it. Miko Lee: I appreciated that episode because it was about autonomy. Like how do you hold on to who you are as an individual? To me, I didn't look at it as much about poly as much as it about who am I and how do I hold on to my belief in who I am even in the midst of being in a relationship. Michelle MiJung Kim: Absolutely. Exactly. I think I wanted to prioritize topics that weren't popular in terms of the public discourse, not 'cause [00:18:00] it's not something that people are grappling with, but because it's tricky to navigate. Because it requires a lot of nuance and often I think when we talk about desire or when we talk about personal wellness and self-development, it's so often done through the lens of, white co-opted, self-help culture. I wanted to do it in a way that felt more in alignment with my values around social justice. I picked the topics that were less explored through that lens, but also that, I felt were present in our public zeitgeist and in the cultural musings. Some of these topics were also timely. Like the one about my job loss due to Palestine or my struggle with my friendships that were breaking all over the place because of our political disagreement or the conversation around [00:19:00] abolition and conflict, navigating conflict in our own lives that map to our vision of the collective liberation Miko Lee: and the contradictions that we hold. Michelle MiJung Kim: Exactly, and the contradictions that we hold and that we have to make room for that often get, muted or disregarded because it's uncomfortable to talk about or that makes us feel less radical, less critical, less social justice-y And I think these are actually quite urgent topics that we need to talk about in order for us to create more, coalitions, more resilient relationships that is at the foundation of all of our organizing. Whether that is, you know. Or in our political work or personal, , living in alignment with our values. So I felt these were also timely conversations that needed to be had in a way that felt accessible, personal, and honest, that wasn't overly packaged up. So that people can [00:20:00] resonate with the raw struggles. Miko Lee: I also appreciate how you put listeners voices in at the end and just with their perspectives, because as you're talking about, for instance, the breaking up with friends because of political differences, then we're hearing other people's voices about their experiences. So how did you do those call out for those voices and did you identify specific topics you wanted colleagues to speak on? Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah, so we did a call out for voicemails for every episode, and it was so important for me. I kept pushing our team to do it, even though we were running out of time and resources. They were like, no, we gotta cut this part out. And I was like, no, because the podcast is called, “I Feel that way too” and it's about, not just me, but how my story then gets reflected by the entire community. I wanted to make sure that the community voices become a part of this episode. I did a call out on my social media, on my newsletter, and it was actually quite hard to get people [00:21:00] to submit voicemails. I think people feel a lot of pressure to get it perfect. I asked my friends and they said they wanted to do it, but they were feeling pressured because they feel, they felt like they didn't know what to say and they wanted to say it in a way that felt professional. And so Miko Lee: come up with something profound. Michelle MiJung Kim: Exactly. They wanted to be profound and everything that we do, I think takes a level of courage. I really appreciated people who submitted their voicemails. Miko Lee: Yeah. Michelle MiJung Kim: We had voicemails coming from New Zealand, from Taiwan, from the United States from Canada, and so it was wonderful to know that there was a global sort of connection to these issues and the things that we are grappling with, and also knowing that we're none of us is really alone. Miko Lee: Speaking to the alone, we're living in such a time of isolation right now and where there's two different parties with really clear agendas and people are this way or [00:22:00] people are that way, and yet your title is, “I feel that way too”. Can you share a little bit about where that title comes from? Michelle MiJung Kim: I was part of my very first high risk direct action calling for an end to the genocide in Palestine, I was terrified and I decided to partake in it because I didn't know what else to do to process my anger and my desperation, watching what was happening unfold on my screen. I just felt like I had to do something more than what I was used to doing, whether it's donating or signing petitions or writing. There was a collective gaslighting during that time where the media outlets were justifying what was happening in Gaza. People were being, retaliated against for talking about Palestine. There was this overall, polarization between people who felt this [00:23:00] urgent need to do something about Palestine versus people who are living their daily lives as if nothing was happening. I went to participate in this direct action, I was surrounded by people who felt similarly, and after this really intense action took place when everybody was highly activated and charged because we had just seen our comrades be arrested and then released, and we were, just in our adrenaline. We all held hands to chant together collectively. And the chant went like this. ” Don't worry, I got you. I feel that way too. We'll get through together, we'll make our way through.” And when the chant leader said, I feel that way too, something in me broke and I just started weeping. In that moment, I just needed to feel like I wasn't alone in feeling this kind of [00:24:00] desperation, this type of pain and trauma, and anger towards our systems, and that just holding hands with complete strangers. Chanting, I feel that way too. Made me feel so much more grounded and hopeful and courageous to a point where I felt I was able to take more risks than I was comfortable with. So that's where, that's the origin of the phrase. I feel that way too, for our podcast. I just think back to that moment where I felt so seen, I felt so held and encouraged just by the sentence. I feel that way too. That's the kind of feeling that I hope to be able to gift to our listeners, whoever's listening to our podcast and whatever topic may be. I hope more people feel encouraged by the stories that we share and the way that we are creating space for us to be vulnerable and courageous together. Miko Lee: I [00:25:00] love that. So you're asking your audience to listen, feel connected to something else, be able to be part of a bigger movement. Are there other things that you want your audience to ponder or to take action on? Michelle MiJung Kim: I think the podcast really is about, community and courage. The podcast asks us to be courageous about identifying what we want, about how we want to live our lives, who we want to be, and being courageous enough to face the contradictions and make space for the collective, and connection. I would love more than anything for people to feel seen. But also feel encouraged to share their stories with people in their lives and to hopefully be able to take action together. I think the action of caring for one another in this vulnerable, honest way, the way that my mom and I got through that very difficult conversation. That [00:26:00] in and of itself is healing. Multiple generations of trauma. If we all could muster up the courage to practice that level of honesty and courage with one another, so much of our, need to heal can be met and so much more possibility emerges from that action. After airing some of the episodes, we also hosted a discussion session. Called the Courage Collective, where we got to discuss and unpack what came up for people after they listened to the episode, and that was incredible. Just being able to have a consistent space where people can meet provided that sense of community that we all need right now to be able to move in solidarity with our broader movement , and to sustain this very difficult, exhausting path that we're all walking in our personal lives, but also in our collective lives. I hope people can listen to the podcast and share with somebody that they wanna talk about the topics and keep the [00:27:00] conversation going in a way that can encourage you to take action that brings you closer to more community, more possibilities for our collective liberation. Miko Lee: Michelle MiJung Kim, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. We're gonna put a link to the entire series in our show notes. where else can they find out more information about you and your work and your book. Michelle MiJung Kim: Everything you need to know about me on my website, www.michellemijungkim.com. You can sign up for my newsletter and follow me on social media, on Instagram at Michelle Kimkim or on LinkedIn. Miko Lee: Love it. Thank you so much for joining me. So now take a listen to the first episode of, “I Feel that way too.” Michelle MiJung Kim: The other day I was talking to my mom about my uncle, her older brother who has stage four lung cancer. My mom was [00:28:00] venting about how upset she was that her brother's kids weren't jumping at the opportunity to pay his hospital bills. She said he sacrificed his whole life for them. How could they do this to him? I mean, they have their own lives too, mom. One of them has a little kid. It's not exactly cheap to raise kids in Korea. So I don't know. It feels fair to me that they're talking about what they can or can't afford. My mom was not having it. She said they have their whole lives to be there for their kid, but their dad, he doesn't have that much time left. They should do everything they can to support him. Wait, were we talking about love or money? My mom knew there was a difference right after a few back and forths. I just asked her the question that I really wanted to ask. Do you think uncle feels like his kids [00:29:00] don't love him because they're not giving him money? It wasn't just a question about my uncle and his kids. It was a question about me and my mom. About love and sacrifice, after all, isn't our willingness to sacrifice the ultimate measure of our love. Hi, and welcome to, I Feel That Way Too, a podcast where we ask some of life's trickiest questions and together find the courage to unpack them one story at a time. If you've ever wondered how life could be different, but didn't know where to turn, I'm here to tell you, you are not alone. I feel that way too. Ever since I was young, I felt responsible for taking care of my single mom. You know, growing up seeing her sacrifice so much for [00:30:00] me and my younger sister. When I got older, I just thought, yeah, that's my job now. That's just what you do, right? Whether it was taking a soul sucking corporate job, or using my savings to relocate her from Korea. I took the responsibility for caring for her seriously. I took pride in it. Whatever sacrifice I had to make felt appropriate, given how much I love her and how much she'd given up to raise me. But as an adult, I've been struggling with this more and more. If the only way I can express my love is by showing how much I'm willing to sacrifice, then how can I ever prioritize my own desires and needs? What do I do with all the guilt and shame and resentment that comes from feeling burdened by this responsibility? Have I become so Americanized that the idea of al piety feels suffocating? Am I a bad daughter? I mean, [00:31:00] that's such a common experience. This can be even more complicated in immigrant families because often we have those values, right? Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Asian values, filial piety, or we see fism as a really big value in immigrant households. So putting other people first, prioritizing the family over the individual, that's a hedged core Coley. She's a therapist, writer, and founder of Brown Girl Therapy, the first and largest mental health organization for children of immigrants. I've been following her on Instagram for years now, and I love the fact that she's making mental health relevant and accessible for Asian Americans like me, like learning Speaker 3: about words like enmeshment. So enmeshment is this idea that there are very loose or no boundaries within. Relationship. So in the family system, if we're talking about families, there are no boundaries. There is research that suggests that immigrant families tend to be more enmeshed because they're actually trying to protect themselves and their loved ones, creating these insular communities and [00:32:00] families from harm from the dominant society. So it was adaptive initially, but of course, just because it's adaptive doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy. We can see now that that kind of loose boundaries can lead to people feeling really dependent on one another. So often that's it's hierarchical in immigrant families, so it's a top down of dependency, but then children are being dependent on more, depending on your birth order, your age, your gender, your being dependent on in different ways. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Becoming someone my mom can depend on was kind of my life purpose for a long time. My attention was always on what she needed and how I could provide that as a kid. I rarely asked my mom for anything that wasn't practical or necessary. She was a single working mom, and I could see how hard she was working just to keep us afloat. Instead, I tried to help however I could. I'd hand over my New Year's allowance from my aunties and uncles. Whenever we went out [00:33:00] to eat, I'd always check the prices on the menu to make sure I wasn't picking something too expensive. I worked hard in school, got good grades, and told myself, this is how I can help. I'll get into a good college, land a good job, and make enough money to take care of her. That's exactly what I did. Right after college, I jumped into corporate America instead of chasing my passion for social justice because. At the time, what mattered most was bringing my mom to the US and supporting her financially. And honestly, I was proud of myself for that, starting so young, being able to help my mom. It felt good. Looking back though, I realized that I never really let myself just want things, you know, like things just for me. And then in my thirties, something started to shift. I found myself really struggling with our relationship. I was having trouble differentiating my desires from her needs. Speaker 3: So in the Western world, we talk about [00:34:00] individuation. When you're an adolescent, you were growing up and you start to build your unique interests and you start to prioritize your friends and you start to be your own person. A lot of us immigrant children didn't really get that we were still expected to do X, Y, and Z, so we didn't really get that chance to individuate around that age, you know, as we're 12, 13, up until 19, 20, 21. And so a lot of us are doing that later in life. I work with clients who are 30, 40, 50 years old who are like, wow, this is the first time I'm doing something for myself. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: At every crossroads in my career, my decisions were often tied to one question. How will this affect my ability to support my mom? Can I quit my job? How much money do I need saved up to cover both of us for six months? Even little decisions like whether to make a frivolous purchase came with this gnawing sense of responsibility. That kind of mental math had become second nature, but prioritizing my own joy and [00:35:00] abundance. Well, that always came with a side of guilt. It felt like my entire life was split in two. One part lived for me and the other for my mom, and as I got older, the tension between the two only grew becoming harder to navigate and more emotionally draining. Sahe calls this parent child role reversal parentification. Speaker 3: At the root of it, there are two types of parentification. There's instrumental parentification, which is more about taking care. In more practical roles of the family. So maybe, you know, cooking for sick relatives or making sure your younger siblings were okay, or if you were a latchkey kid, left at home alone, you know, going to school one time, making your bed, all of these things that you had to do for yourself or for your family because maybe your parents were out working or just weren't able to do it. And then we have emotional parentification, which is more about taking on those emotional roles. So being the family mediator, maybe taking on the role [00:36:00] of a parent or a spouse for one of your parents, because either one parent isn't more present or because emotionally they don't have the type of relationship where they speak to each other more emotionally or vulnerably. So a parent might use a child to do that. It's also about generally managing your parents' feelings. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: One year after many years of working with my therapist, I mustered up the courage to set some financial boundaries with my mom. Not necessarily because of money, but because I needed to shed the guilt. That gnawing feeling that whatever I was doing was never enough and that there was always more to give. I thought if I can get my mom to tell me the exact amount that she actually needs, then I can finally know that I'm meeting her expectations and I don't have to wonder if I'm not doing enough. I could handle the financial responsibility, but I didn't wanna carry the emotional weight anymore. So one day at a [00:37:00] posh new Indian Fusion restaurant that I thought she'd like, I mustered up the courage to ask her, can you tell me exactly how much you need monthly so I can better budget my own finances? Up until then, I was paying her rent and giving her allowance in random amounts, paying for whatever needs arose at various times throughout the month. She was visibly perturbed by my question. Without looking at me, she said, just give me whatever you can. I insisted, no, mom, I want you to tell me what you need and want. She replied, I just want you to do what feels good and right for you. I said, I don't know what that is, so I need you to tell me. I was getting frustrated. She was getting uncomfortable, so I said. Okay, fine. So if I said $500 per month, that's okay with [00:38:00] you. She looked visibly worried. See, so you know what you need. Why won't you just tell me, make my life easier? She burst into tears. Why are you making me say an amount? You want me to feel shame? I already feel bad now. We were both cry, yelling. People at other tables were exchanging awkward glances. She said, don't make me say an amount out loud. I want you to support me because you love me and because you want to, not because I'm asking you to. At this point, my voice was near full volume, tears dripping down my face from knowing I had caused her pain, but somehow my untamed anger kept spilling out. Despite knowing full well that I had done enough damage to my mom's heart, I desperately needed her to see my pain too. I shouted, [00:39:00] I do love you, and I'm asking for your help. Why can't you just help me? I never got my mom to say an amount. It was as if I had spoken the very thing that needed to remain unsaid. By speaking the unspoken. I had broken the delicate dance we'd been doing for decades where love meant anticipating needs and quietly fulfilling it to save face. Where protecting meant pretending not to see the weight we each carried, because naming it would make it all too real. Silence had become our shared language of care, but now we were at a loss for words. We packed up our untouched food without speaking and left the restaurant, and I never brought up the topic again. And here I was wanting her to tell me exactly what she needed so that I could feel less [00:40:00] guilt for feeling like I'm not doing enough, even though I was doing a lot. Speaker: Mm-hmm. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: And so we were at this crossroads and we couldn't see past each other's pain and our own pain in being able to connect to one another. And since then I've been really hesitant to bring up. Any conversations around money or boundaries with her, because first and foremost, I'm terrified of her feeling like she's not loved. That somehow if I bring this up, she's going to feel more like she's a burden and she's going to stew in her own shame knowing that I don't think she has. Capacity and the skillset to be able to hold her emotions right now. And then I feel resentful that I have to think through what she needs before I can just be a child and tell her to meet me where I am for once. Right? Mm-hmm. And so then the cycle just continues and I am not sure I, I know how to get out of it. Speaker 3: Boundaries is such a like. Trigger [00:41:00] word for so many of us, right? When you hear the word boundaries, you're like, no. All of a sudden that door closes and you say, this is not something that's gonna speak to me. Because it has this reputation of being like, cut people out. Say no, protect yourself. And those narratives really don't speak to so many of us who come from collectivist backgrounds where. We want to maintain a lot of these relationships. We just don't want it to feel as bad as it does. And so disentangling and learning how to disentangle our feelings and our values from our parents is often the work I do with my clients. And it takes a long time, right? Because you are sitting down, sifting through a basically a pile of values, norms, expectations, feelings, and saying, okay, this one belongs to me. This one belongs to my mom. This one belongs to my dad. And trying to figure out. Where does that leave you, and how do we move forward and build the sense of self with things that actually feel true to you? And a lot of that work is painful. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Trying to disentangle my definition of love from my mom's isn't the only thing that's been painful to navigate. It's also the [00:42:00] realization that so much of my upbringing fundamentally shapes the way I live today. Speaker 3: At its best, parentification can lead to having a lot of pride developing really good work ethic, being really mindful of your role in your family and leaning into that. But at its worst, it can be a form of emotional neglect. And I think that's really important because in my work with children of immigrants, a lot of times a lot of us don't realize that we have different needs when we're growing up. And sure, maybe you had a roof over your head, maybe you were, you know, sent to school, maybe you always had food on the table. And these are really. Big significant needs that were met, but were you also cared for emotionally? Were you allowed to express your emotions? Were you modeled and nurtured emotionally? So just being taught that even emotions weren't something that was safe to have. And so in that way, that's when parentification can become a sign of emotional neglect. So as by definition, parentification is taking on adult-like roles or roles that are. Older than you are developmentally at a young [00:43:00] age. And it can lead to people pleasing, it can lead to perfectionism, it can lead to constantly, um, monitoring our parents or other people's emotions or feelings. Right? Those are very common long-term consequences of being parentified children because we've never really learned how to take up space. People pleasing, Sahaj Kaur Kohli: perfectionism, hyper vigilance. Yeah. I've been dealing with all of them pretty much my entire life. One of my core memories from when I used to live in Korea was being invited to a friend's house After school, we were supposed to do homework together, and her mom sat with us going over everything and helping us out. I remember feeling so reassured, like finally someone was helping me in the way that Mamie feel safe and cared for. And because I wanted to be invited back, I was always on my absolute best behavior. I didn't want her to feel like I was being a burden or a nuisance, so I made sure to take my shoes [00:44:00] off in the neatest way possible. I made sure to wipe off any crumbs off the table, and I even offered to do the dishes. Y'all, I was barely 10, but I felt like I needed to be, liked to be helped. The truth is. I am resentful. I resent that I never got to just be a kid. I'm angry that I couldn't tell my parents that I was sad or hurt or scared. I'm angry that I thought care and attention were earned. By making myself small, likable, and pleasant. I'm angry that I couldn't allow myself to rest or stumble because I knew there was no safety net to catch me and that I thought it was easier to not want than to be disappointed. But for the first time in my life, there is something I want [00:45:00] just for myself. I want to heal desperately. I want to shed this weight so I can finally be my most authentic, free, and expansive self without needing to prove anything to anyone. I want to access the safety, abundance, joy, and ease that I didn't have as a. Child. Talking to my parents about my childhood wounds feels really hard. Not only because I'm worried about how it'll make them feel, but because deep down I truly believe that they loved me the best way they knew how so? How do I even begin to tell them that their best wasn't enough to protect me from harm? How do I share that? I feel resentful for the child that I never got to have without breaking their hearts in the process. And the hardest part, even now, I catch [00:46:00] myself prioritizing their feelings over my truth. It is like this unshakeable sense of responsibility where their comfort feels more important than my pain. How do I even untangle that? Speaker 3: You deserve joy and peace and ease. I mean, ultimately so many of us aren't able to give ourselves permission to be able to work towards joy and peace and ease. 'cause we don't believe we're deserving of it. And that is a product of, you know, these family dynamics, but also guilt and shame and not knowing the difference between those two. And then feeling like we automatically are. Bad if we aren't constantly pleasing other people. So many of us also struggle with that, uh, binary mindset. You know, if I feel this way, it's wrong. If my parents are disappointed, I'm a bad child. And that's not true. We have to learn. And [00:47:00] you have to decide at what point you're willing to accept that it might not change. And then decide what you're willing to tolerate. And that's the acceptance in grief work that is so hard and grief, I call it grief for a reason. 'cause grief never goes away. There's no resolution in grief. It's learning to build a life around it. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Yeah, that's so real and so hard, that whole acceptance piece, right? Knowing that it's going to take time, but also that there may need to be a time where you start to accept, uh, your parents for who they are and what they have capacity for and what they don't. What's been really difficult for me is the acceptance of the reality. And my desire to heal, part of me feels like I can't heal until I get the acknowledgement, until I get the validation, until I feel seen in my entirety by my mom and by my dad. And sometimes I feel like that just sets me up for more disappointment and sense of betrayal and resentment because I [00:48:00] am not getting the very sort of human and childlike need from my parents. But knowing that that may never come, and I can't depend on that for my healing, but that's been really hard to accept. Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, that makes me really sad because I'm hearing you like deny yourself something that you deserve because you're still waiting for your parents to give you permission for it. When you can give yourself permission for it yourself, but for some reason you don't feel like you have enough agency or you're not allowed to be the one who decides I can heal. Even without my parents' acceptance. And that's a lot of the inner child like re-parenting work of like, you know, thinking about little Michelle and what she needs and how do you give it to her. How do you find power and strength in being able to be the adult who can say, fine, if you're not gonna take care of this little girl I am. I'm gonna take care of her. And it's really hard, right? And it's really painful, but. [00:49:00] It hurts me to hear you say that you won't be able to do this until you get that permission, because the reality is you may never get that acceptance and acknowledgement you're looking for from them. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: In high school, when I came out as bisexual to my dad, he just ignored it. He pretended he didn't hear me change the subject, and that was that we never talked about it again. And honestly, I was fine with that at the time. He didn't wanna hear more and I didn't want to share more. We lived under the same roof, but how much did we really know about each other? Anyway, fast forward many years later, I was on my way to a date with a woman I just met. I was on the phone with my dad and thought maybe this is a chance to let him in on my life, just a little. So I told him where I was going and casually asked, what would you do if I ever brought a girl home? I don't know what I [00:50:00] was expecting to hear, but I definitely wasn't prepared for his answer. Don't come home. He said Speaker 3: It's very challenging and I think I just recently had these conversations with a couple clients of mine where, you know, sometimes we have to ask ourselves. The greatest gift we can give people we love is letting them see us for all parts of ourselves, right? Every part of who we are. That's the greatest gift we can give someone we love. And not everyone deserves that gift, especially if they're not tending to it, nurturing it. And I see you like, as like a younger version of you, like vulnerable and raw and saying, love me, love me, love me. Mm-hmm. It's not just you, it's it's all of us. Right? We, we have these experiences. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: It wasn't until one Thanksgiving back at my dad's house that I realized just how much I did crave my dad's acceptance and love. Thanksgiving is one day [00:51:00] that we all gather at my dad's house. We ordered a Thanksgiving family meal from Boston Market that no one really likes chit chat and eat for no more than 40 minutes and migrate over to the living room to watch a movie of someone's choosing, usually me or my dad. This has been our way of bonding for as long as we started gathering. The movie that my dad, the same man who stonewalled me when I came out to him in high school, chose for us to watch, was Boy Erased a movie about a gay man's search for acceptance from himself and his family without making eye contact. He said, have you seen this? I thought you might like it. It's about a gay person. As someone who's never been interested in anything L-G-B-T-Q related, this was his clumsy way of inching closer to me. My dad didn't throw me a coming out party. He didn't wear a rainbow pin or proclaim how proud he was to be an ally. [00:52:00] There was no tearful heart to heart about acceptance, apologies, forgiveness, or unconditional love. And you know what? At that moment I realized. I didn't need any of that. Sitting side by side on that Costco couch of his, I understood exactly what his silence was trying to say. Speaker 3: And that's what happens in high context cultures, right? It's not about being direct, it's not about being explicit. It's more about what the contextual clues are. I think behaviors is where it all comes down to. So that might have been your dad's way of saying, I accept you and the way that I know how, and me watching this with you is my way of showing that in the same way that my dad. Never growing up or through my thirties, only recently started to say, I love you. But growing up I would go home and he would leave me newspaper clippings about mental health or about something I had told him about and those would be on my bed every time I would visit home. And that's, I knew, was his way of saying, I love you. [00:53:00] Right. We have the cut fruit anecdote that everyone has in an Asian household. Our mom's way of loving us is through food and by caring for us and caretaking for us. 'cause that's the role they knew how to play. I even had an interesting conversation with my mom where I've asked her, I think this was a while ago, where I asked her, what else do you wanna do? Like stop trying to do my laundry when I come home. Get out of the kitchen. We'll just order food. But then I realized it made her sad and I realized I was actually taking away her agency to love me in the way she knew how. Because that's not how I need to be loved. I've also asked my parents, did your parents ever say, I love you? When was the first time or the last time you, you heard them say that to you? What was that like for you? Oh, that must have been really sad that your parents didn't even say, I love you. You know, that impacts kids. And then using that as a frame of like. Are you thinking about how you don't do it with me? Like sometimes it takes these little kind of games before we can get to a place where we feel like we can get that conversation going. But even then, where can we find beauty in the relationship with our [00:54:00] parents? I'm sure if we, you know, really wanted to dive deep into it, we would. You would be able to think of like strengths in your relationship with your parents, ways that they do love you or see you even if it's not what you want. The way that they love you is still a way that they are showing you that they love you. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: When I think about my younger self, I sometimes find myself imagining my mom and dad when they were young, what were they like growing up? How many crushes did my mom have as a teenager? When did she start sneaking cigarettes? And what made her start? Who was there for my dad when he lost his dad as a child who told them they were loved? When was the last time someone asked them about their hopes and dreams? What did they long for? Growing up in Korea with my mom, she often told me her parenting philosophy. [00:55:00] I want us to be like friends. She'd say, she'd tell me stories about how she was always afraid of her mom, how strict my grandma was. How she never got the chance to fully explore her passions and curiosities. One day when I was in elementary school, she just said, you're not going to school today. And instead of taking me to school, she drove me and my sister to a farm outside the city. She told us real life experiences are more important than what you learn in textbooks. She didn't want us to live inside the same box. She'd grown up in. She wanted something different for us. She'd say things like, date as many men as you can before you marry. Travel as much as you can while you're young. Learn to drive as soon as you can. More than anything, she wanted us to be free freer than she ever got to [00:56:00] be. The way my parents love me and the way I love them. It's not something you'd find in some textbook. It's messy. It's complicated. It's nuanced, and it's big. It's so big. It is not the kind of love you see in those Hallmark movies where a white parents hug you and say, I love you at least 15 times a day. But I feel it. I feel it in the everyday moments, like when my mom insists on doing my laundry with her permanently sore back, or when she likes every single thing I post on Instagram. I feel it every time she sees me and says, you're so pretty with genuine awe in her eyes.[00:57:00] Michelle MiJung Kim: If you liked what you heard today, please tell your family. Tell your friends. Tell your people. Subscribe to our show and leave us a review. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Wanna hear more from me in Sege? Watch the full interview on the I feel that way. Two YouTube channel. And while you're at it, subscribe to our newsletter on our website at www dot I feel that way. Two.com. Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great [00:58:00] night. The post APEX Express – 9.18.25 – I Feel That Way Too appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – September 11, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

In this episode, Dr. Harlan Krumholz reviews the September 9, 2025 issue of JACC, covering key studies on artificial intelligence in cardiovascular research, the effects of tirzepatide in heart failure with preserved ejection fraction (HFpEF), and how social, racial, and genetic factors influence heart failure risk. He discusses the growing burden of heart failure in the elderly, the need to disaggregate data in Asian American and Pacific Islander populations, and the role of rare genetic variants in atrial fibrillation outcomes. The episode also features perspectives on clinical trial design, complex case reports, and emphasizes the need for AI submissions to meet high standards of clinical relevance, feasibility, and long-term impact.

Ugo, Sara, Katy Daley-McLean and Philippa Tuttiett reflect on a mixed day for the home nations at the Women's Rugby World Cup. England and Scotland are into the quarter-finals, but defeat to Canada sees Sean Lynn's Wales eliminated. Despite their tournament ending after only two matches, are there still plenty of positives for Wales to draw upon? The 92-3 victory over Samoa was the Red Roses' biggest in World Cup history, but did the moment of the game belong to the Pacific Islanders? And who from an England perspective shone in Northampton? We also discuss Scotland reaching the last eight of a World Cup for the first time since 2012.

Atlanta, get ready for an unforgettable two-part celebration! Panda Fest, one of the nation's fastest-growing outdoor Asian food and culture festivals, is making a highly-anticipated return to Atlanta. As the first city to ever host Panda Fest, Atlanta has earned the unique honor of hosting the event twice in one year. The panda-monium is set to take over Atlantic Station from September 5–7, 2025. Early Bird tickets for this one-of-a-kind Atlanta festival go on sale Friday, July 11 at 10 a.m. EST. What to Expect at Panda Fest Atlanta This September, Panda Fest will bring back the vibrant celebration of Asian American and Pacific Islander cultures that Atlanta has fallen in love with. Guests can embark on a culinary journey across Asia with more than 80+ food vendorsserving over 300 delicious dishes. You'll find everything from authentic street food to creative fusion bites from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, and beyond. Beyond the food, explore a curated marketplace with over 25 vendors offering unique crafts, clothing, and artisan goods. The festival also features a dynamic lineup of live entertainment, including modern K-pop dance routines, traditional lion dances, theatrical performances, and more. And of course, the pandas take center stage, with Instagram-worthy installations like a 15-foot inflatable panda and a panda bounce ring, along with themed games and merchandise. Tickets & Details Dates: * Friday, Sept. 5: 12:00 p.m. – 5:00 p.m. * Saturday, Sept. 6: 10:00 a.m. – 10:00 p.m. * Sunday, Sept. 7: 10:00 a.m. – 8:00 p.m. Location: * Atlantic Station, Pinnacle Lot * 221 20th St., Atlanta, GA 30363 Ticket Info: * Early Bird tickets go on sale Friday, July 11, at 10 a.m. EST at www.pandafests.com. * General Admission and VIP tickets are also available. VIP perks include shaded seating, private bars, and exclusive experiences. For more information, visit www.pandafests.com. Follow @pandafestatlanta on Instagram for festival updates and sneak peeks! About Panda Fest: PANDA FEST is one of the biggest outdoor Asian food festivals in the US with experiential activities, tastings, and market fairs that showcases the vibrant food, art and cultural traditions from Asia. Ash Brown: Your Ultimate Guide to Inspiration, Empowerment, and Action Are you searching for a dynamic motivational speaker, an authentic podcaster, or an influential media personality who can ignite your passion for personal growth? Look no further than Ash Brown. This American multi-talented powerhouse is a captivating event host, an insightful blogger, and a dedicated advocate for helping people unlock their full potential. With her infectious optimism and genuine desire to empower others, Ash Brown has become a leading voice in the personal development and motivation space. Discover the World of Ash Brown: AshSaidit.com & The Ash Said It Show AshSaidit.com: A vibrant lifestyle blog and event platform, AshSaidit.com is your gateway to Ash's world. Here you'll find exclusive event invitations, honest product reviews, and a wealth of engaging content designed to inform and inspire. It's the perfect online destination to stay connected and get your daily dose of Ash's unique personality and insights. The Ash Said It Show: With over 2,100 episodes and over half a million global listens, "The Ash Said It Show" is a powerful and popular podcast. Ash engages in meaningful conversations with inspiring guests, diving into topics that truly matter. Listeners gain valuable life lessons, encouragement, and practical advice to help them navigate their own journeys. Why Ash Brown is a Leading Voice in Personal Development What truly distinguishes Ash Brown is her authentic and relatable approach to personal growth. 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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Important Links: Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram Bhutanese American Refugee Rights website Transcript Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam.  Since the onset of the Trump administration, immigrant and refugee communities have been under increased attack, being kidnapped in broad daylight, detained in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, and deported to countries many of them barely know. All without due process or communication to their loved ones and communities. On tonight's episode, we're focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US' deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people. I also want to note because this is a rapidly developing situation, that this episode was recorded on August 13th, 2025, and is being released on August 28th, 2025. For the most recent updates, please go to bhutaneserefugeerights.org or check out the Pardon Refugees campaign. Now, here's Miko. Miko: Welcome to Apex Express. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so glad to bring you all together in this time. I'm wondering if I could ask you each to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the community your organization serves and what you do, and let's start with Kao Ye.  Kao Ye: Hello everyone, and thank you for making space- my name is Kao Ye Tao. I use she her pronouns, and I work as the director of policy and partnerships with an organization called Hmong Innovating Politics. We are an organization that serves Hmong youth and families in Sacramento and Fresno, which holds two of our largest Hmong American communities in California. And our work with Hmong youth and families is really about developing their leadership to organize towards social justice and to get the resources that their communities deserve. Miko: Thank you, Kao Ye and Robin, could you please introduce yourself? Robin: Sure. My name is Robin Gurung. I use he, him, his, I'm from the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community. I live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. my role at Asian Refugees United is the co-founder and the co-executive director. We have our program in California and Pennsylvania. California programs are, are serving Asian diaspora and then, Pennsylvania programs are focused serving the Nepal speaking Bhutanese community. We work in the intersection of arts and healing, storytelling, civic engagement, leadership development. Thank you. Miko: Thanks Robin and I am your host Miko Lee, lead producer at Apex Express. And all of us are part of a network called AACRE Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, which is a network of progressive Asian American groups. So you all work with refugee populations. I'm wondering if you could tell a little bit more about the backstory of your community, and also if you feel comfortable about how you personally came to be a refugee in the United States. And, Robin, I'd love to start with you on that one. Robin: Sure. My community is Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community. And we are ethnically Nepali, which means culture wise and language wise we speak Nepali and follow the Nepali culture tradition. Our ancestors like maybe in 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds migrated from Nepal to Bhutan and became the citizen of that country. And most people don't know about Bhutan, it's a very tiny country between China and India. And, if people know about Bhutan, then people know it through the cross national happiness concept, Bhutan is considered the happiest country in the world. So our ancestors were in mostly in the southern area of Bhutan for generations, they became the citizen. They had their own home, their own land. And then later, 1980s, early nineties, there was a policy by the government of Bhutan, which is the monarchy government system- king rules the country. They brought a policy called One Nation, One People Policy. Which means all different groups of people would have to follow the same culture, same religion, kind of follow the same dress code and because of that policy all people were forced to stay away from following our own culture or our own religion, which, most of our folks were Hindu. Our people protested against it and because of that, the government expelled over a hundred thousand of our community members. And, they expelled to India and then from like India wouldn't allow us to stay and we had to resettle in Nepal in seven different refugee camps under different international agencies like U-N-H-C-R and other agencies. Miko: And then Robin, can you tell a little bit about your personal story and how you came here? Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So 1992 is when my family had to leave Bhutan. And at that time I was three years old. I remember growing up in a refugee camp in Nepal, from three years until I was 23 years. So 20 years of my life I was in a refugee camp in Nepal. And in 2012, I came to US through the refugee resettlement program introduced to our camps in 2008, and through it US agreed to resettle 60,000 of our committee members. By 2017, I think US has resettled about 70 to 80,000 of our Bhutanese community members.   Miko: Thank you so much for sharing. Kao Ye I wonder if you could talk about your community and the refugee resettlement program that your community was a part of. Kao Ye: The Hmong American community, or just the Hmong community overall, is a group that's indigenous to East and Southeast Asia. And through our ancient history, we've always been a stateless, people fighting for our autonomy to live to practice our customs and our culture. And particularly where we come into this history of refugee is during the Vietnam War where many Hmong people, alongside other ethnic groups in Laos, were caught in the crossfire of the United States conflict in Southeast Asia. And so with the Vietnam War. The Hmong as well as many other ethnic communities that lived, in the hills and the mountains were recruited in covert operations by the CIA to fight back against the Vietnamese, the Northern Vietnamese communist forces, as well as the Putet Lao. And so once the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, it created a vacuum of conflict and violence that our people had to escape from in order to survive. And so after the Vietnam War in 1975, we saw the mass displacement of many Southeast Asian ethnic communities, including Hmong families. And that is where my history starts because my parents were born in Laos and because of this war, they fled to Thailand refugee camps and lived there for a few years until they were able to come to the United States in 1992. And I'm actually I'm a child of refugees and so what I know about this part of my history comes from the stories of my grandparents who raised me as well as what little I could learn in the textbooks of public education. And so it wasn't actually until going to college and. Being able to access more of this literature, this history that I really learned about what the United States had done in Southeast Asia and the ramifications of that for myself and my family and so many others, refugees that. Have to have had to resettle in the United States. And so it's definitely a history that runs very close, because we have relatives that live through that refugee experience. And so it is very well and alive. And so as we now approach this conversation around ICE and deportations, it really is a reminder of the trauma that our people face, but are still facing as a people that have been seen as disposable to the United States government. Miko: Thanks, Kao Ye. Let's talk a little bit more about that. But first I wanna say, did either of you ever hear about refugees in your textbooks? I never did. So I'm wondering if, you said you learned a little bit about that from textbooks. Was that something you learned in public education. Kao Ye: I did not learn about refugees or refugees experience. I learned about the war and as a Hmong kid it brought me so much delight to try to scroll through the history books just to see if Hmong people were mentioned. And even then the refugee experience was not ever something that we talked about. I felt like definitely not in, in high school. I think it was college really, that then started to articulate those terms and that Southeast Asian identity, that is really where I think I also became politicized in that. Miko: Yeah, because I think in textbooks there might be a little section on the Vietnam War, but it does not talk about the, all the Southeast Asian ethnic peoples that actually fought in the war. We have to dig that information out on our own, but I wanna move us to what is happening right now. So the Trump administration has created. Culture of fear among immigrants and refugees, these ICE raids and disappearances. It is so intense and using immigrants as a fear tool to prop up white supremacy is so blatant right now. I'm wondering if you can each talk about, how this administration's policies are impacting your communities. And, Robin, let's start with you. What is happening right now? I know since the end of March, can you share a little bit about what's been happening with Bhutanese Americans? Robin: Sure. Sure. So our people were settled to this country with the hope that this is going to be our home. But starting March of this year, with the new policies of this current administration, we started seeing abrupt, ICE arrest in our communities. People were picked up from home, their workplaces, and from their ICE, check-ins. And, since March, within I would say two to three months, more than 72 of our community members were picked up, mostly from Pennsylvania and then Ohio, and also from other states like New York, Georgia, North Dakota. So until now, we have, the records of at least 50 people who have been deported to Bhutan and at least 72 who are detained. So more than 30 people are [at risk] of getting detained. The nature of the ICE arrests that we have seen is we don't know whether the due processes were followed. They made it so hard for the families to look for attorneys, and also to track their family members. Within days family members would find their loved ones disappeared, and then they wouldn't be able to talk to them they wouldn't be able to track them and provide the support that they needed. So for us as a community organization we did not anticipate this and we were not prepared for this. And, and we didn't have the infrastructure to really address this, right? So it became such challenging work for us. Like within days we had to mobilize our people. We had to mobilize our teams to help family members with legal support, emotional support, mobilize our community members to update what's happening with this situation. The rapid response work, know your rights clinics that we had to set up. So on one hand it's the detention and deportation in the US and on the other hand, when our people were deported to Bhutan, what we're seeing is within 24 hours, they are being expelled from Bhutan to India, and then from India because India wouldn't accept them as well, they had to enter Nepal because for most of these Deportee, they're very young, they were born in refugee camps, and for most of them, the only known land is Nepal. Right. And they had to enter Nepal without documentation. And then some of them were found in refugee camps. And most of them are unknown. Like they're, they have disappeared. Miko: So that is so much over the last few months that ARU has had to step in and take a leading, role in this situation that has impacted the Bhutanese community from focusing on wellness and youth development to suddenly translating materials into Nepali, translating, know Your Rights materials into Nepali, hosting all these different events, the work that you have been doing is really powerful. I wonder if you could share with us the story of Mohan Karki, who is a community member that's currently detained in Michigan. Robin: Sure. So, Mohan Karki is now in detention in Michigan and he's a community member member who lived in Ohio. So he was detained by ICE during his regular ICE check-in , I believe in April, they detained him and then he was taken for deportation. And last minute, the families and the community had to come together and then appeal the deportation. Right now he's in Michgan detention center and his wife, who was pregnant and had due date, when Mohan was being deported on June 10, is now fighting day and night to stop the deportation and also to bring Mohan home. Right now, Asian Refugees United and other community partners, like AWPAL, Asian Law Caucus are working together to support Mohan's family, to bring Mohan home and also running a, GoFund me fundraiser, to help the family pay the legal fees. Miko: Thanks Robin. And we're gonna listen to Tikas story right now. Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet I'm from Ohio and I'm fighting my husband deportation case.  So on April seven, a lot of people told us not to go to the ICE office, but my husband wanna follow the rules, he wanna go there. We went to the Westerville office inside And we sit down, we talk to each other. Nothing will go wrong. And suddenly ICE told us to come inside and they told us that my husband got travel documents from Bhutan. I told them like it is not safe for my husband to get deport in Bhutan, all the Bhutanese people run away in 1990s due to the ethnic cleansing and if my husband get deported in Bhutan, he will either gonna get killed, tortured, disappeared, imprisoned, I don't know what will happen, but they did not listen to me. So they detained my husband and I came at the parking lot and his mom saw me coming alone. So they start crying and I told them like, Mohan is gone and this is the last time I think I'm gonna see my husband. the time that my husband was taken away from Butler County on June 10 I was 41 weeks pregnant. I was supposed to deliver on, June 10. But no, I told the doctor I change my delivery time. I am not gonna go now like I need to fight for my husband. Like, When Bhutanese people started coming here in 2007. Third party promise us that in here in United States, we will get our identity. That identity will never taken away. They promise us that the way Bhutan take our identity, they will not gonna do that. we thought that this is our home. We thought that having a green card, having a citizenship, it is permanently, but no, we are, we all are wrong. And that identity is taken away within a second. And we became stateless again. So, my husband, Mohan Karki he just arrived in the United States he been here less than two years when the incident happened. He did not understand the law. He did not understand the culture. He did not know anything.  My husband he was only 17 years old, high school student coming from school to home. On the way to reach their apartment, there is one private house. They are just trying to go to the shortcut from the backyard. So some neighbor call 9 1 1. And that only one mistake lead to deportation.  The place that we come from, there is no boundaries. In Nepal, we are allowed to go anybody property We are allowed to walk somebody else house and because of the cultural difference, he's paying price right now.  At that time, nobody can speak English. They cannot understand what police were saying and Nepali interpreter told my husband that if you say I'm guilty, you'll out of prison soon. But if you did not say I'm guilty, you'll end up in prison for 20 to 25 years. High school student he's scared he just say, I'm guilty, and he did not know what is deportation mean. He did not know what he was signing. Nobody informed him what he was signing. That signing was deportation. What happened in 2013 is impacting us in 2025 and still he wish he did not cross somebody else backyard at that time. He wish he knew that he wasn't allowed to cross somebody else's backyard. I don't know what will our future is gonna be, but I hope that he gets second chance. His community love him. He love people. He was working as a truck driver. He paid taxes. He was supporting his parent. He was supporting me. My daughter deserve to have a father. You know, she's just one month. But now the dream that I was hoping one day I'm gonna build with my husband that is taken away and I'm left alone with this child. I already went through a lot without him, i'm the only one that fighting for my husband case. The deportation is not only breaking one family, but it is breaking everybody, the community and the family. And I hope that people can support me so I can fight for my husband case. Like I really need so many attorney. I need criminal attorney to open up his 2013 case. And I have wonderful, wonderful attorney, my husband get stay off removal, but that is not guarantee my husband can get deport anytime. The attorney fee are really expensive and he still needs support. The US made bhutanese people a promise of home. We belong here. Stop the detention and deportation. Stop deporting Bhutanese people. We are stateless. We don't have country, don't have a home. This is our home. US is our home. We belong here. Miko: Of the 72 people, Mohan is the first Bhutanese refugee that we actually have a stay of release on, as Robin was saying earlier, most of the folks were moved from state to state, so you can't really get a lawyer in that time. And as we all know, nonprofit immigration lawyers are under a lot of stress because of the attack of this administration. So it makes it incredibly complicated, let alone the legal fees that it costs to help support people going through this. And right now, Mohan has a stay on his, deportation and the lawyer that they do have is drafting up a letter to be able to release him into the community and also overturn his original case that happened as a minor in Georgia, which was a ridiculous case where he was leaving school, early high school, first year in the country, leaving high school early, and walked with his friends across a backyard. And the neighbor that they walked through their yard called the police, and they arrested him along with his friends for trespassing, they gave him paperwork that he didn't even understand. He signed it along with a interpreter they gave him false information to say he'd be locked up for 25 years, or if he signed this papers, that would be fine. He could go and what the papers said was it changed his charge into a felony and had him sign a letter of deportation. So this is part of the failure of our American legal system that we're not providing adequate information. It is a lack of due process. Thankfully, the work that Asian Law Caucus and United States of Stateless and other community activists are doing to call this out and help work with us is really critical. I wanna turn now to Kao Ye how this administrations is impacting Hmong refugees, and how is it similar or different to the experiences that Robin is describing for the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community? Kao Ye: I echoed many of the sentiments and the challenges that Robin shared around what we as nonprofit, grassroots organizations are having to build and grapple with just the limited infrastructure that we have to deal with the current ICE disappearances and deportation and all the support that's needed for the families. And so thank you Robin, for sharing that. I wanted to start broad a little bit because I think that this Trump administration is happening in the backdrop of the 50th year commemoration of the end of the wars in Southeast Asia and the refugee resettlement. We had over 1.1 million Southeast Asians resettle to the United States, the largest immigration resettlement, in American history. And so this year brings so many complexities, I think as a Southeast Asian community where there is a level of looking back at policies that have impacted us and have failed, but also looking forward what is the community that we are building together to move and progress together. And so there are those complexities, I think as the fact that it's the 50th year and like, this is what we're dealing with. This is the trauma that we are grappling with. And so I wanted to put that out front and center because even I think within our communities , there is no necessarily enlightenment in terms of how we talk about what is happening to our people and how they're getting deported unjustly. So that is why it is so important to have this dialogue within our communities as well as the solidarity that we also share with the Bhutanese community and other immigrant groups too. I think that in many of our Southeast Asian communities, their reasons for deportations is very tied to past convictions, and so this is the intersection between criminal law and immigration law. And it makes it complex because our people are now having to consult not just an immigration lawyer, but like criminal attorney so that they could really assess like what kind of relief they can get in order to mitigate, impending deportations. And then also miko you had shared about the lack of adequate legal service or representation because many of these folks, right, that have had these convictions that have now served their time and are simply members of our community that make our community rich. They are now having to revisit removal orders that they signed, thinking that, oh, nothing necessarily was gonna happen because they don't have a repatriation agreement. So, in our community, there was never a thought that we were going to be deported back to our home country because of that policy. And so that is a big contributing factor as to why the Hmong community, we don't have that infrastructure to really support our members who have gone through the criminal justice system and now have those removal orders. And so HIP, as well as many other grassroots. Sadly we did have to scramble to put this know your rights information together because again, I don't think that there was visibility in the need for us in this conversation around immigration Southeast Asians are a segment of our API community and so it just, I think, multiplied the invisibility that we already faced as a group of Southeast Asians. And so the support was definitely not there. And, to Robin's point, we did our best to try to put this information together to our community, starting with the Know Your Rights. And then we also realized like it was more complex than that, and that the legal supports were so necessary because everyone's case was different. I think what we're still dealing with now is that there's always been a lack of trust between our community members and government entities and nonprofit organizations. And so, if someone is dealing with the situation, they wanna go to, a partner that they trust to help them, even if they're not necessarily equipped to do that work, is that they're going to only the people that they trust because there is such a big mistrust. And so I think that, there is still the level of trust building that is needed to be done within our community so that folks feel comfortable to come to us or come to other people for support. And I think what makes me feel emotional is just when I hear about community members feeling hopeless and just feeling like there's nothing that they can do and that level of disempowerment to me, I think is something that is real. And I can't say that we can't combat it, but I think that it is about being able to find different outlets of support for them. Miko: Thank you for lifting that up. And just , in terms of the numbers, over three months, March, April and May, there were about 72 Bhutanese Americans that have been detained. And this is just kind of starting up with the Hmong community. So we had 15 that were detained from Minnesota and another 10 right now are being held in Michigan. And we also see this happening with Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodians, and Myan folks. All of these folks as Kao Ye you're pointing out, have had common threads, which is connections with the system, with the criminal legal/ justice system and crimmigration is something that in the AACRE network we've been talking about and working on, which is really about the education to prison, to deportation pipeline. And one of the things that this administration had talked about is, let's get rid of all the murderers and the rapists. You know, this like scare language about people that are convicted criminals, let's get rid of them all. But the fact of the matter. The vast majority of all of these people are people like Mohan Karki, a cultural misunderstanding that happened when he was a child. Like Lou Yang, who is Hmong refugee detained in Michigan right now. Somebody who was involved in something as a kid, but has since then become a leader in the community. So let's take a moment and listen to the spouse of Lou Yang, a Hmong refugee detained in Michigan in July. Anne Vu: My name is Anne Vu and I come before you today with a heart full of hope. Sorrow and a plea for justice. I am a proud American, a mother of six, the daughter of Hmong refugees who would gain their citizenship, and the wife of a man called Lou Yang, who is now detained and faced with potential deportation from the only country that he's ever known. Lou has lived in Michigan since October, 1979. He was born stateless in a refugee camp in Nongkai Thailand and his family fled Laos due to persecution. His father and like many others, served with the United States force during the Vietnam War as part of the Secret War, recruited by CIA in Laos, a conflict that most Americans do not know has happened. The Hmong were recruited by the CIA as part of the Secret War to help America during the Vietnam War. But when the war ended and the US withdrew, we were as the Hmongs declared enemy of the state. What followed was genocide, polarization and persecution by the state, and it was because of our alliance, the promise made by the US government that the Hmong refugees were legally settled here under certain migration of refugee laws and acts. And Lou arrived here as a young, toddler in infancy. In 1997, he was arrested on an alleged accomplice in an attempt home invasion, second degree. He was in the vehicle at the time. He never entered the home. He literally was still a juvenile at that time. He had a court appointed attorney and was advised to take a plea without being told it would affect his immigration status for the rest of his life. This is the reality of our immigration system – long, complex, confusing and devastating, unforgiving. It is not built for people like us, people like Lou, people who have served their time, rebuilt their lives and have nowhere else to go. We've walked this legal path, we've stayed together in the lines, and yet we are here punished today. Lou has no other charges, no current legal issues, no history of violence. He is not a flight risk. He is not a danger to our public safety. He is a father, my husband, a son, a son-in-law, a grandson and a brother to many, and our leader and a provider to our community, and to my family. He renews his work authorization and follows every rule asked of him no matter how uncertain the future felt. Together, we've raised six beautiful children. They're all proud Americans. Lou has contributed to Michigan's economy for decades working in our automotive industry and now he is gone and all that he is built is unraveling and the community is heartbroken. We didn't come from wealth. We didn't have every opportunity handed to us because we didn't come seeking a land of opportunity. We came here because of survival. We had to build from the ground up. But the most important thing was Lou and I, we had each other. We had our families, our friends, and our neighbors. We had a shared commitment to build a better life, grounded in love, respect, and purpose. And somehow that's still not enough. For years, we were told like other Hmong families that Laos in Thailand would never take us back. And that has changed. In June, 2025 the US imposed a partial travel ban on Laos, citing visa overstays, and lack of deportation cooperation. And in response, Laos began issuing these documents under pressure. Today over 4,800, including Hmong, Myan, and the other ethnic minorities are facing removal to Laos and to many other countries, many have never stepped foot in a country that they are now being sent to. Lou is Stateless like many others that is detained with him. None of these countries recognize him. He was born in the Thailand refugee camp, it does not recognize him nor qualify him for any sort of Thai citizenship and I'll tell you guys right now if forced to return, he will face danger because of his family's deep ties to the CIA and United States military. Deporting him turns him, a civil servant and respected community leader, into a political casualty, it would be a grave and irreversible injustice. To deport him now is to punish him to death. Once again, 50 years later, as we celebrate resilience this year across the nation, we are now celebrating a fight within our own grounds, right here in United States, right here in Michigan. We're now fighting the same fight within our own country. Thousands of Southeast Asian Americans, many that entered legally admitted as refugees are being deported for decade old offenses they've longed paid for. America is our country. All we ask is the right to stay in the home that we've helped to build and work hard to protect. We are not seeking special treatment. We are asking for justice, compassion, and a second chance in this country to claim what we believe in. To Governor Whitmer and members of Congress and all elected officials, please help bring Lou and the many others home. Urge ICE and DHS to release him on humanitarian grounds. Help his case. Help us preserve the integrity of our laws and the dignity of our families. And to the public allies and the media. Please call our elected officials. Please call these offices.  Please share Lou's story. We need voices. Voices louder than ours alone. It is hard times you guys. It is real. And I speak to you from the bottom of my heart. Please help me and our families in the many that are suffering. This is our home. These are our children. This is my husband and this is our fight. Let him come home. Let our families be whole again, and let America keep its promise. Thank you guys for hearing me. Miko: Lou Young is a community leader. Michigan, who actually runs a nonprofit in support of Hmong folks in that community, and is targeted and also has a stay of removal. So we're doing a targeted campaign for both of these folks, Lou Yang and Mohan Karki, to be able to get them released to overturn their original convictions and they also have spouses that are telling their stories and telling the impact these detentions have had. Because while this current administration talks about getting rid of criminals, what they are actually doing is breaking apart families and community. Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Coming up is Deporting the Pilgrim from the Anakbayan Long Beach Mayday Mix tape.   Swati Rayasam: That was please be strong, featuring Hushed, loudmouth and Joe handsome. And before that was deporting the pilgrim from the Unec Bayan Long Beach Mayday Mixtape. Now back to the show. Miko:  I wanna shift us a little bit to talking about Asian american representation in the larger fabric of immigration justice in the United States. Mostly many of our Asian communities have been like isolated, not really involved in the broader immigration movement. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the difficulty and nuance of bringing your community struggle to the forefront because many of us heard about the Venezuelans and the Mexicans that have been deported and what was going on, but we don't hear as much about these stories of our Asian sisters and brothers. I wonder if one of you could give voice to that. Robin: Before going there can I add something to  Miko: of course.  Robin: crimmigration conversation? So when you all are sharing about that, I was thinking about, the justice system in this country and what we are seeing right now is a broken justice system. Like you said, Miko, where families are separated where families are broken, and what I don't understand is, when, let's say your loved one gets into trouble, makes a mistake, and gets into a trouble, then, as a human being, like, don't you want your loved ones to rebuild their lives? Like Yes, of course there is a system that you have to follow, the laws that you have to follow, but at the end, I think we all want our loved ones to come back, rebuild their lives, right? And what we're seeing in this country is they're constantly breaking the families. And I don't see how we are going to build a better future when we are constantly, hurting the families. And in the cases of detention and deportation, what we're seeing is the double punishment. Like the mistakes that they had made, but then throughout their life, they have to go through that, a continuous cycle of being punished. And not just the individuals, but their family members have also go through the challenges, the suffering, right? And in the case of Bhutanese from double punishment to double expulsion to this, the state of being statelessness. Right? So what kind of future we are imagining when an individual has to go through that continuous cycle of being punished and not having the opportunity to rebuild their lives. So that's a big question mark that I think, we all need to think about. To your later question around my community and the larger Asian American context or the national context. My community is relatively new to this country. We lived, almost two decades in a refugee camp, which was a enclosed camp. And our lives were dependent on foreign aids like UNHCR or ILWF. Pretty much I would say we had our own world over there. And for us to work outside the refugee camp was illegal. There was no laws that gave us the permission to work outside. So we were not pretty much exposed to the outer world. So for us to come to US was a big step. Which means pretty much from basic every day stuffs like, you know, using a bathroom, using a kitchen, taking a bus. All of those were foreign for us. So for our community to really tap into the education system, the political landscape of this country. And also like the experience of being expelled for voicing our, our opinions, for fighting for our rights. Right? So for us, for our community to kind of step in into the politics, it's like re-traumatizing ourselves. I would say there are a lot of barriers, multi-layered barriers for our community members to really tap into the larger political, like socio political landscape, from language barriers to culture barriers to education, to pretty much everything. So right now, the way our committee has been being attacked. It's a surprise to the community. And also it is like kind of traumatizing the community and taking us back to the same place of feeling, insecure, feeling like we don't have a home. And we did hope that this is legally, this is going to be a home. Because after coming to the US most of us became the legal citizens of this country and we started rebuilding our lives. Now it's kind of like going back to the same circle of statelessness. Miko: Thank you for sharing about that. Kao Ye, would you like to add to that? Kao Ye: When I think of the Hmong American community and even the Southeast Asian community and why the narratives of what is happening still feels very invisible. I think of how our community, we were assimilating for survival. And I speak on that as a child of my refugee parents and siblings where growing up we were taught to, listen, not speak out, not cause trouble. Go through the system, listen to authority, listen to law enforcement. And because of that, I feel it's shaped a culture of fear. Fear to dissent and fear to speak out because we care so much about the stability of our families. And we wanted to protect ourselves, because of everything we've gone through with the war. And we are finding that it's been challenging for our community members to come forward with their stories. Honestly, we're still sitting on that and we're still kind of sitting through like, why is there that tension? You know, I feel like folks are going through a lot and even folks have, our impacted loved ones, but they're afraid to tell their story because of fear of of retaliation. And so I think that there is a level of, I think that lack of even psychological safety, but real, physical, real financial safety that people have. And I think that being a factor to the assimilation, but also this facade of like the American dream and like if we don't just disrupt, if we don't speak out, we will be protected. And, white supremacy, right? Like we will be okay. And it's a facade because we know that because our communities are the ones getting kidnapped and getting deported. Right. And so I think there is that fear, but there's also recognition of this now, this facade that the silence doesn't protect us and that there is a real need for us to really, be strong in speaking out, not just for our SEA siblings that are impacted, but for all of our immigrant groups, even the Bhutanese community, right. That's been impacted during this time. And so I, yeah, I think it is that multi-layered experience of being a Southeast Asian refugee community on top of, being part of this AAPI umbrella. AAPI we are not homogenous. We all have very unique histories as to how we have dealt with the systems in this country and how we came into this country. And so I think it's been challenging to make space for those nuances. And at the end of the day, I still see the interconnections that we all have together too. And so, I think it's the willingness to make space for those different stories. And I am finding that more of our ethnic media, our smaller news outlets are more willing to cover those stories as opposed to, these larger mainstream outlets. Like they're not covering those stories, but we are. Miko: Thank you. Oh, both of you have brought up so much today about our failed criminal justice system, about us punishing people as opposed to rehabilitating people and punishing them more than once. We brought up questions around statelessness and the impact that it has, and I just recently learned that the United States does not have any policy on Statelessness. So one of the things that this coalition of folks is trying to do is to get a congressional hearing to help the United States develop policy around statelessness, because it is actually our responsibility and our duty to do that. The other thing I hear you both talking about is this good immigrant, bad immigrant trope, which we've heard of a lot, but I think that's also very much connected to why so many members of our communities don't wanna speak out because this connection with, you know, quote unquote criminal history might be something that's shameful. And I'm wondering if you both see that as a divide mostly between elders in the community and younger folks. Robin, do you wanna talk about that? Robin: Yeah. I mean, initially when we were mobilizing our community members to fight against the the unjust and unfair detention and deportation, this issue around the perception around good immigrants and bad immigrants became one of the main topic of discussion. We had to deal with people, and mostly elders, but I would say some young folks as well, who would pull themselves back on speaking against this issue because for them people who are being deported or detained are criminals and they deserve this kind of mindset. And not being able to see the larger picture of how the administration is targeting the immigrant and the refugee population of this country and really trying to dismantle community power, right? So, yes, it is a challenge that we are, we're going through and I think it's going to be quite a bit of work, to really build solidarity within our own communities. Kao Ye: I feel that the divide in the Hmong community is stemming from class and education. I feel as though when folks are articulating, regurgitating these justifications of the bad immigrant as to why folks should be deported it's folks that maybe kind of made it in their lives and now they're comparing themselves to folks that were not in that situation. And there is this growing within our community as well, where some folks are getting that education, getting, good jobs. But so much of our community, we still suffer from poverty, right? And so, I think that has been really interesting to witness the level of division because of class, because of income and also the education piece. Because oftentimes when folks are feeling this, it comes from a place of ignorance as well. And so that's why I think the education piece is so important. I actually feel though our elders are more understanding because these are their children that are being separated from them. And Robin's point is that when we have loved ones that go through the system, we just want them to rebuild their lives and be self-sufficient. And I feel like those are the values that I grew up in my community where our parents were always about keeping the family together to a fault, you know? And so they don't want separation. They just want us to be well and to do well, and to turn our lives around. And so, I feel strongly that our elders, they do understand that the importance of giving this opportunity for us to, to stay together and turn our lives around. Miko: Thank you so much, both of you for joining me here today to talk about this important conversation. I'm wondering if you could provide our audience with how they could find out more about what is going on and what are next steps for our audience members. Robin, let's start with you. Robin: Yeah. I just wanted to add what, Kao Ye talked about. I do agree the patterns around the divide is based on class. And I do see that in the community, and not just the class, but in our community class and caste, I would say. And in terms of the class, there were some instances where we had to deal with even the highly educated like PhD holders kind of, questioning us like, you know, what we are advocating for, and, I couldn't understand like, I couldn't relate the education, the title, the degree that he holds and the perception around this issue. Right. So, I just wanted to echo that. So, in terms of our work and Asian Refugees United, our website is www.asianrefugees.org And you can find us in our Instagram, Facebook, Asian Refugees United. Miko: And you can also get latest news about what's happening at bhutaneserefugeerights.com. Yeah. And Kao Ye how can folks find out more about your work? Kao Ye: Right now HIP is part of a statewide network in California called the Pardon Refugees Campaign, where we are really pushing Governor Newsom to pardon all refugees, not just Southeast Asians because of everything that we talked about, about how our families, they deserve to stay together. And so, I don't think we have a website up yet, but you can follow this campaign with us. We will be having a rally and press conference, coming up soon, in the next few weeks. And so, I would say that please follow us in that work where we are really moving in coalition with all of our uh, grassroots partners to advocate for our loved ones that are currently being impacted. Miko: Thank you so much, Robin Gurung, Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong Innovating Politics. Thank you so much for being with us here today, and I hope you listeners out there take action to keep our families together, to keep our people in the communities as loved ones where they belong. Thank you all. Have a great night. Swati Rayasam: I'm so grateful that Miko was able to talk to Robin and Kao Ye. And for those who missed it, visit bhutanese refugee rights.org for the most recent updates on the Bhutanese refugees. The press conference in rally Kao Ye mentioned took place last week on August 21st, 2025, but check out the Pardon Refugees Campaign for updates from the coalition supporting Hmong, Cambodian Laotian, Myan, and other refugees facing deportation. Thanks so much for tuning in to Apex Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by  Miko Lee, along with Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar,  Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Ravi Grover, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a good night.   The post APEX Express – August 28, 2025 – “And we became stateless again” appeared first on KPFA.

In the ninth episode of season 4, guest host Dr. Cory Cannady, Cummings Graduate Institute for Behavioral Health Studies (CGI) Doctor of Behavioral Health (DBH) alumnus, leads an engaging discussion on the importance of self-care for behavioral health professionals. He is joined by fellow DBH program alumni, Dr. Pauline T. Pablo, Co-owner and Executive Clinical Director at Symphony Behavioral Health and Dr. Jeremy Henderson-Teelucksingh, Principal at Indigo Path Collective; and Dr. Gayle Cordes, Faculty Associate at CGI. Drawing from their extensive expertise, the guests share strategies for managing the emotional demands of the profession, setting healthy boundaries while providing compassionate care, and incorporating self-care practices that improve both personal well-being and patient outcomes. About the Host:Dr. Cory Cannady, DBH, BCBA, LBA, IBA, CGI DBH program alumnus, is a Board Certified Behavior Analyst and the Assistant Clinical Director at Elevate. He is from a small town in west Tennessee and moved to Chattanooga in 2009 to attend UTC. After earning his Bachelor's in Secondary English Education, he taught for the Hamilton County Department of Education for 5 years. While teaching, he obtained his Master's Degree in Applied Behavioral Analysis from the University of Cincinnati in 2017. He obtained his Board Certification and licensure in 2019. About the Guests:Dr. Jeremy Henderson-Teelucksingh, DBH, LPC/MHSP, LCMHC, NCC, CCMHC, CGI DBH program alum, is a counselor, leadership and management coach, and corporate and community human relations consultant. As a counselor, Jeremy works with adults (individuals, couples, and families) who experience PTSD/trauma, abuse in the context of family relationships, anger, obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, relationship issues, and more. Jeremy also works with the LGBTGEQIAP+ community (teens and adults) and is an “out” counselor with a history of diversity, equality, inclusion, and belonging advocacy. Dr. Pauline T. Pablo, DBH, BCBA, IBA, CGI DBH program alumna, is a trauma-informed Doctor of Behavioral Health, Board Certified Behavior Analyst, mother, wife, and healthcare advocate. She holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Psychology and a Master of Arts degree in Teaching with a specialization in Applied Behavior Analysis. Her work as a behavior analyst focuses on providing behavioral support services to neurodiverse individuals diagnosed with various developmental disabilities. Dr. Pablo co-owns and operates Symphony Behavioral Health Inc., a neurodiversity affirming ABA company serving the southern California region. She is also the co-founder of Asian Pacific Islanders Association for Behavior Analysis (APIABA), a non-profit organization that aims to disseminate the science of ABA within the Asian and Pacific Islander population.Dr. Gayle Cordes, DBH, MBA, MC, for nearly twenty years, was a state-licensed psychotherapist and owner of an independent practice in Arizona, with specialty training and advanced certifications in trauma treatment therapies, including eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR). Along with her work in private practice, she served on staff at the 2012 launch of the University of Arizona Integrative Health Center in Phoenix, where she conducted an unpublished, retrospective study on the treatment effects of EMDR therapy on co-occurring anxiety and chronic medical conditions. Since 2018, she has served on an EMDRIA Board task force charged with drafting guidelines for the delivery of EMDR therapy virtually as well as training therapists in EMDR therapy through distance learning. In 2022, that initiative developed into the inaugural EMDRIA Training Council, upon which she served as a member of the steering committee. Since 2016, she has served on the graduate faculty of Cummings Institute for Behavioral Health Studies, where she developed a trauma specialty curriculum for the Doctor of Behavioral Health degree program.

Episode 3: It's Not All in the Toolkit – Centring Indigenous Knowledge in MEL Dr. Apisalome Movono, Alessandra Mel and Ascenaca Blake dive deep into what it really means to centre Indigenous Pacific knowledge in monitoring, evaluation and learning (MEL) beyond checkboxes and toolkits. With Eroni Wavu, they unpack what happens when we don't take Indigenous Knowledge Systems (IKS) seriously as well as how IKS can shape more ethical, authentic, and context-grounded MEL. This podcast was made possible through SPC's Funding with Intent initiative, funded by the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.   Please provide us feedback here: https://forms.office.com/r/yHK0eDhrex    Guests: Dr. Apisalome Movono – Associate Professor of Tourism, University of the South Pacific   Fijian academic and tourism expert from Buca, Natewa in Cakaudrove, with maternal roots in Naimalavau, Nakelo, Tailevu. He is an Associate Professor of Tourism at the University of the South Pacific (USP), bringing decades of expertise to the Pacific development space.   Alessandra Mel – Integrated Programming and Innovation Officer, SPC   A proud Pacific Islander and an experienced accredited partnership broker, futures facilitator, and MEL practitioner. With over a decade of experience working in PNG and now across the Pacific region, she has supported diverse teams and organisations to navigate complexity, build trust-based collaborations, and make sense of change.  She brings a unique mix of systems thinking, creativity, and care to her work and is deeply passionate about inclusive, locally led approaches to development, and her work reflects a strong commitment to reflection, equity, and imagination.   Asenaca Blake – Senior MEL Manager, Pacific at Conservation International   With 18 years of Pacific development experience, she facilitates learning cycles, strengthens partner capacity, and translates evidence into program and policy decisions. practice centers on Pacific-led development, Indigenous knowledge, and measurable outcomes for climate resilience, biodiversity, and community wellbeing.  Links: People-Centred Approach (SPC): https://www.spc.int/updates/blog/dynamic-story/2024/08/ensuring-a-people-centred-approach-is-at-the-heart-of-spc-work  People-Centred Development: https://forumsec.org/people-centered-development  Kakala Research Framework:  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366784502_Kakala_Research_Framework  https://repository.usp.ac.fj/id/eprint/8197/1/Kakala_Research.pdf  https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-04394-9_44    

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 322: Matthew Chuang, ACS Chief of War is a historical drama series from Apple TV+ co-created by and starring Jason Momoa. The show features a primarily Pacific Islander cast speaking Hawaiian, and is the first program to tell the story of the brutal and unprecedented unification of the Hawaiian islands in the late 18th century. Cinematographer Matthew Chuang, ACS shot episodes 1, 2, 5, 8 and 9 of Chief of War. He teamed up with director Justin Chon, his friend and collaborator on the indie film, Blue Bayou, to shoot episodes 1 and 2. Working with Chon, Matthew set the look of the show- a naturalistic, honest and real look, with few effects or stylized camera moves. They drew from films by director Terrence Malik, cinematographer John Toll and movies such as The Last of the Mohicans and Apocalypto. “It was a lot of fun because I had resources for the first time. The scale of the production was exciting,” says Matthew, who had never worked on a television show before, let alone an epic one like Chief of War. “We wanted to showcase Hawaii, the culture, the fighting style and costumes, but in a way that feels grounded and real.” Understanding the history and receiving guidance on cultural sensitivity was also important to the crew, who often engaged with the actors and local community to make sure it felt authentic. The crew shot in Hawaii for eight weeks before shifting to locations in New Zealand. For Matthew, the ninth and final episode, directed by Jason Momoa, proved to be the most difficult. They filmed major battle scenes in the lava fields of Kalapana on Hawaii, while the Mauna Loa volcano erupted for the first time in more than three decades. The lava rocks were sharp, hot and offered no protection from the sun, and the battle as scripted went from daytime into night. Matthew had to carefully plan the shooting schedule around the time of day in the script, with the crew often starting at 3am to get shots going from night into day. It was Momoa's directorial debut, and Matthew found him to be extremely knowledgeable. “Jason is very involved on the visual side,” explains Matthew. “He loves cameras. He loves the craft of shooting. He knows lighting as well, like the direction of the sun, especially with the show where we're shooting a lot of times outdoors, a lot of time on location.” Find Matthew Chuang: https://www.matthewchuang.com/ Instagram: @mattscope See Chief of War on Apple TV+ Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

In this episode, Alex Chester‑Iwata dives deep into the origins, evolution, and cultural significance of Mixed Asian Day, a vibrant celebration that amplifies the voices and experiences of Mixed Asian and Pacific Islander communities. She shares how the day came to be and what she hopes for this and future Mixed Asian Days. Mixed Asian Day info: https://mixedasianmedia.com/mixedasianday-------------------------------------------------------------------Have thoughts about this episode or the topics we cover? Leave me a voice note on SpeakPipe at ⁠https://speakpipe.com/MilitantlyMixed⁠ your message may be featured on a future episode!If you love Militantly Mixed and want to help keep it going, consider supporting via Patreon: ⁠https://patreon.com/militantlymixed⁠Stay connected: Website: ⁠www.militantlymixed.com⁠Instagram: @militantlymixedYouTube: Militantly Mixed

Christopher Columbus and Ferdinand Magellan are known for discoveries, but it was Captain James Cook who made global travel truly possible. Cook was an 18th-century British explorer who mapped vast regions of the Pacific, including New Zealand and Australia’s eastern coast, with unprecedented accuracy. He meticulously conducted soundings to measure ocean depths and created highly detailed maps, providing accurate navigational charts that guided explorers and sailors for generations. His three voyages (1768–1779) also advanced scientific knowledge through detailed observations of astronomy, natural history, and indigenous cultures, earning him enduring recognition as one of history’s greatest navigators. Pacific Islanders literally worshipped him. In January 1779, when he sailed into a volcanic bay known by Hawaiians as “the Pathway of the Gods,” Cook beheld thousands of people seemingly waiting for him on shore. Once he came on land, people prostrated themselves and chanted “Lono,” the name of a Hawaiian deity. Today’s guest is Hampton Sides, author of “The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook.” We take a look at Cook’s third and final voyage (1776–1779), detailing his exploration of the Pacific, encounters with indigenous cultures, and tragic death in Hawaii Cook was a brilliant yet complex navigator grappling with the moral and cultural challenges of European exploration in an era of expanding empires.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Twisted Metal and Chief of War The big Summer blockbuster season is slowing down and now we're heading back into the realm of prestige TV coming slowly back to our screens... or maybe, if not prestige, then genre adjacent and hopefully fun. So in the first of our TV roundups for this season we're looking at Season 2 of the surprise romp Twisted Metal and then at the new Apple TV Hawaiian historical action drama Chief of War. Momoa vs Mackie head to head! Jill, Dion and Quinny are leading this war party of post apocalyptic Pacific Islander warriors to this review's gates! Twisted Metal Synopsis: Season 2 finds John entering the deadly Twisted Metal tournament, navigating his relationship with Quiet after seven months apart, and reuniting with his long-lost sister Dollface. Chief of War Synopsis: The story of the unification of the Hawaiian Islands from an indigenous perspective. The plot centers around Kaʻiana, a warrior chief who initially joins a bloody campaign to unite the warring kingdoms but later rebels against the unification process, aiming to protect his people from colonization, https://youtu.be/wMHe0XAiKu0 A huge thank you to all our warriors and weirdos who listen avidly to each show, joining in on the live-chat during the Twitch stream this week (and every week!). If you haven't done so before, sail your canoe to the live show with us 7:30pm next Tuesday to join in on the car crash carnage. Special love and thanks goes to those who have financially bolstered this podcast by making a milk run into our Ko-Fi jar and now also by subscribing on Twitch! Your generosity is always appreciated! If you feel so inclined drop us a sub! The more subs we get the more Emotes You get! Every bit of your support helps us to keep the the cars fueled and the chieftains fed. Don't fret if you can't be there for the recording though as you can catch them on Youtube usually later that very night. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss them! https://youtu.be/SFMG1gBtOtI?si=1eh6vSxsz2yjKUPZ https://youtu.be/owdGcwufWK8?si=jY9KIKycgb3RtTv9 WE WANT YOUR FEEDBACK! Send in voicemails or emails with your opinions on this show (or any others) to info@theperiodictableofawesome.com Please make sure to join our social networks too!  We're on: Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TPToA/ Twitter: www.twitter.com/TPToA Facebook: www.facebook.com/PeriodicTableOfAwesome Instagram: www.instagram.com/theperiodictableofawesome/

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Resources: Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram | Learn about the Disappearances of Bhutanese American refugees: Website | Toolkit Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Lavender Phoenix: Website | Instagram Minjoona Music: Instagram   Transcript: Cheryl (Host): Good evening. You're tuned in to Apex Express. I'm your host, Cheryl, and tonight we're diving into the vibrant summer programming happening across the AACRE network. That's the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network. AACRE is made up of 11 Asian American social justice organizations working together to build collective power and create lasting movements .  Throughout tonight's show, we'll be spotlighting a few of these groups [00:01:00] and the incredible work they're leading this summer. First up, we're joined by Pratik from Asian refugees United Pratik. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself and to kick things off in the spirit of tonight's show, maybe share what's something that's been bringing you joy this summer? Pratik (ARU): Hello, namaste everyone. My name is Pratik Chhetri. He, him. I'm the program manager at ARU, Asian Refugees United in Pennsylvania. I'm originally from Nepal. I grew up in Nepal. I am an immigrant, came to the for college long time ago. And I've been working in social justice, health justice field for over 15 years now. Initially it was mostly around advocacy policy relating to access to medicines, issues, especially in lower and middle income countries, and the past six, seven. More than seven [00:02:00] years. I also started an organization, a nonprofit organization in Nepal, that works at the intersection of social, economic and climate justice. And with ARU, I got introduced to ARU back in 2020. So by that time I had some skills that I felt I could bring to the community. Even though I'm not from Bhutanese refugee community, I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent. So I felt with the linguistic skill I could be of some help. I think right around that time COVID happened, everything and end of 2021 is when I reconnected with Robin and started talking about possibilities. For about two years, I was part of the CAMP for Emerging Leaders, the leadership program ARU has, and [00:03:00] starting last year, early this year formally, I am a staff, for ARU. I'm in charge of programs under wellness, education, and civic engagement largely but depending on time and resources, I become available for other programs as well. It's a joy working with ARU. I was just telling Cheryl earlier that it doesn't feel like work ‘ cause I enjoy it, working with people, getting to work on impactful programs, and being a part of an organization that has so much potential, so much responsibility, but also trying to find new ways to become, useful for the community. That's very exciting. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): That's great. I'm glad that your work is what's bringing you joy this summer. That's so special. And before we get into some of that impactful programming that you've been running this summer, could you [00:04:00] tell us a little bit about, ARU, Asian Refugees United  Pratik (ARU): Sure. ARU started back in 2016 in California and back then all of the programs used to be in California. The community that ARU serves since then, and even to this day are Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community and Vietnamese community, Korean and other Pan-Asian community. After the pandemic, there has been a lot of secondary migration of the Bhutanese folks from across the United States to two major locations. One being central PA around Harrisburg area and Pennsylvania, and the second one around Columbus, Ohio, and other major cities in Ohio. The secondary migration mostly to Pennsylvania triggered a, shifting of ARU programs, to Pennsylvania as well in addition to [00:05:00] California. So at this point in 2025, the Pennsylvania side of ARU caters to the Nepali speaking Bhutanese folks. And the California side of ARU works with Vietnamese, Korean, and other Asian communities. I work with the Pennsylvania, ARU, and here we have four different pillars around health and wellness, education, art and storytelling. And the fourth one is civic engagement, and that is the newest one. I can talk about programs under each of the pillars but for summer the programs that is bringing me joy, not only for me, but also ARU's staffs is this longitudinal five month long leadership program called Camp for Emerging Leaders, where we recruit Nepali speaking folks from all across United States, and they go through virtual sessions every other [00:06:00] week on, history to the story of displacement, intergenerational trauma. How it started, how it used to be back in Bhutan, how it used to be in the refugee camps in Nepal, and now how it is in the US and Canada, wherever they are. So end of summer, end of July, early August is when all of those cohort members, the youth leaders will come physically to Harrisburg and we'll spend a few days here connecting with each other, building that trust, but also working together to build projects for the community, addressing community challenges that's happening. And for that I think five or six of the ARU staff from California are also coming. We have guest speakers. I think one of them is coming from all the way from Australia. It's fun. Largely I think [00:07:00] I'm looking forward to meeting with all of these youth leaders who have so much potential to do, so much good, not only for Bhutanese community, Nepali speaking, south Asian community, but also, their potential goes beyond that, yeah.  Cheryl (Host): It is powerful to hear how ARU's work has evolved and now spans across the nation, and also how Camp for Emerging Leaders is creating space for Nepali speaking Bhutanese youth to reflect their community's history, build deep connections, and grow as leaders. You mentioned that during the summer youth leaders gather in Harrisburg to create community projects. Could you share more about what kinds of projects they're working on and what kind of issues they're hoping to address? Pratik (ARU): For education, one of the main ones that we just concluded is, so we started high school success program called First Step Forward. And the interesting thing, the exciting thing about this program [00:08:00] is the concept of First Step forward from one of the Camp for Emerging Leaders cohort from two years ago. And similarly so that's how most of ARU programs have been. The ARU Youth Center, the ARU Office, that concept also started from the camp for emerging leaders. There are a couple other programs ARU does. Youth Wellness Day. That started from the camp as well. For the First Step Forward, what we do is early winter of, I think January or February we accepted a cohort of 10. These were high school juniors and seniors, and largely the purpose of the program is to make sure that they are well equipped for college and for any other professional avenues they end up going even if higher education is not for them. We did a lot of like leadership sessions, public speaking [00:09:00] sessions, like how to write essays, how to apply for different scholarships. We just concluded it literally last Saturday, we went hiking and went to one of the Six Flags amusement parks. But learning from that program, we are scaling it up. We're taking 20 people next year, and we will do it a year long cohort. So starting from September up until May, June. We'll integrate college tours, not only for the kids, but also for their family because in Bhutanese community and Nepali speaking folks a lot of the times the parents do not understand how the system works, even with their best intent and best intention. So along with the students, it is very important for us to work with the family, the parents as much as possible to take them through the process, right? On education, we also do a lot of cultural navigation training to [00:10:00] different county level and different governance agencies. Some of the cultural navigation trainings that we did in the past year that I can think of is we did one for the. Panel of judges from Dauphin County, which is where Harrisburg is. We did similar thing for different school districts in Dauphin and Cumberland County, different nearby counties for juvenile probation unit, child and youth services. And while we do that, as an organization, it gave us a better sense of where the gaps are, especially for parents to run into difficulties. 'cause a lot of times, for example, if a kid is sent home with a sheet of paper, even when it's bilingual, because their movement happened from Nepal to Bhutan, such a long time ago, a lot of the folks in the community speak the language but do not understand how to read or write the [00:11:00] language. So there are double language barrier, right? When a kid is called into a meeting or a disciplinary meeting, the parents a lot of times don't even look at the sheet of paper or don't know where to show up or how to show up or what to expect. Based on those things we're using that knowledge and experience to design further programs in the future. That's just for education. With civic engagement, for example, this 2024 cycle was the first election for our community members to vote in their lifetime. Back in Bhutan they didn't have that opportunity and then they spent decades in refugee camps, and it took most of them some time to get the green cards and five years after Green card to secure their citizenship. So we saw a lot of even elderly folks show up to voting. That was their first time that they were voting. And when that happens, it's not [00:12:00] just generic voter education. It's teaching the community how to register, where to register, where to show up at the precincts. A lot of precincts we were seeing, 30 to 40% of the folks show up to the wrong precincts. So there's a lot of need, but also in 2024 we saw, unfortunately, a lot of folks fall victim to misinformation and disinformation. So there's that need to do something about that part as well in the future. One of the things we started doing under civic engagement work is not just teach folks where to register, how to register on voter education, but also preparing some of the community members to run for office.  Two or three weeks ago, mid-June, we did our first round of run for office training. We partner up with another organization called Lead PA. And even for the folks who showed up, all of us [00:13:00] are politically inclined, educated to a certain extent, and a lot of the things that were shared in that training, it was mostly new to us, especially around local government. Like what are the positions that they are and how so many important positions, people run unopposed and what kind of ramifications that might have for our daily lives. Right. Starting 2026 election cycle, we're hoping some of our trainees run for office as well, starting from school board to all the way, wherever they want to. And there are wellness focused events, youth wellness Day that I talked about, around mental health is one of the great needs for the community. One piece of data might be very important to mention, based on CDCs 20 12 data, there was a report out, the research was conducted in 2012, and the report came out in 2014, basically what it said [00:14:00] was, Bhutanese folks in the US have the highest of suicide in the whole nation, and that's something that has not received a lot of attention or resources because generally those numbers get mixed up with generic Asian data and the numbers get diluted. Right. So one of the things, what, as an organization, what we are trying to do is bring awareness to that number. And the other thing is like, it's been over 10 years since that study happened and there has not been a follow-up study. What we are seeing is previously how mental health and it's ramifications how it was affecting the community, it was mostly about 10 years ago, mostly affecting older folks. Now we are seeing a lot of younger folks commit suicide or suicidal attempts. So there is a lot of work in that respect as [00:15:00] well. These are also some of the very crucial topics to work on. But as an organization, we are taking baby steps toward being able to efficiently address the community needs. I missed some of them, but overall, our organizational goal is to empower the community in one way or the other. And one of the tools that we use is focusing on youths because youths in the community, similar to other immigrant communities, our youths are mostly bilingual, bicultural, and many times they're the translators and system navigators for their whole family. And in many cases their extended family as well. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. There are so many layers to the work that you all do. From developing leaders to run for office, to supporting mental health, to helping folks navigate voting and helping folks access higher education or career pathways.[00:16:00]  That's such a wide scope, and I imagine it takes a lot to hold all of that. How do you all manage to balance so much, especially with a small team, is that right?  Pratik (ARU): Yes. Technically we only have one full-time staff. Most are part-time, but ranging from. 10% to 80%. Largely we rely on the community members, volunteers, and we pay the volunteers when we can. And other times, I think it speaks to how much time and effort and how genuinely, folks like Robin, who is the co ED of ARU and Parsu who is the office manager, and other folks in Harrisburg, connected with different community leaders, folks of different subgroups over the years. So. When ARU moved to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania post pandemic, it took them a while to get the hang of the community, the growing community. Back then it used to [00:17:00] be 10, 20,000 max in central PA and now our estimation is like 70, 80,000 in central PA. It took them a while to create space of trust, that ARU are people that they can come for when they run into problems. And even when we don't have a lot of resources, people show up. People volunteer. People volunteer their time, their spaces for meetings and events. Yeah. And that's how we've been running it. I feel like we do five or 10 x amount of work with the resources that we have, but that's largely because of the perception the community has about Robin, about Parsu, about other individuals, and about the organization.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. ARU clearly has such deep community roots, not just through the incredible work that of course Robin, [00:18:00] Parsu and so many others you have named have done to build lasting relationships that now sustain the work in the organization, but also I think it's also evident in the examples you've shared through Camp for Emerging Leaders, how you all really listen to youth and learn from their experiences. And you all shape programs that respond directly to the needs that you're seeing. And in that same spirit of care and commitment that is reflected in ARU's amazing staff and volunteers. I'm curious, are there any moments or memories from camp for emerging leaders that stand out to you? I imagine there must be so many.  Pratik (ARU): Yeah. Many stories. I started attending and facilitating the sessions for the camp I from 2022 cohort and maybe even 23 cohort. I think this is the third one that I'm doing. I'll talk about Kamana. [00:19:00] Kamana joined the 23 cohort and at that time she was still in high school. But you know, she was bubbly, full of energy and she was one of the pretty active members of the cohort and eventually after the cohort, she ended up joining ARU as initially, I think as an intern, and now she is the lead of the education program. She will be a sophomore or rising junior, starting this fall. But now she'll be running the education program, First Step Forward. Primarily it was internally us staff, we see the growth in them with experience. But also I think one of the things that ARU does is we create a sort of non-hierarchical structure within our office space in the sense that anyone can [00:20:00] design a program or any idea, and they do not feel intimidated to speaking up. I think because of that, people like Kamana, I can talk about other folks like Nawal. Them growing within ARU space shows not just with experience, but also I think the kind of open and inclusive and non hierarchical space that we create they feel comfortable enough in leading. A lot of times when we have , X, y, and Z needs to be done in the group chat, people just volunteer. Even when they don't get paid, we see our staff, our volunteer base just show up time and time again. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. ARU is such a special container. You've created this beautiful space where people can grow and then also have agency to shape that container in whatever way that they want. That is so special. How can listeners support your work this [00:21:00] summer? Whether that's showing up or donating or volunteering or spreading the word.  Pratik (ARU): One of the things is for the listeners, I feel like not a lot of folks know about Bhutanese community much. So yes, they speak Nepali. They sometimes they identify as Nepali because it's just easy. , Bhutanese folks normally identify as either Bhutanese or Nepali or American or any combination of those three identities. A lot of folks do not know, including folks from Nepal about the atrocity, the trauma that the community went through had to go through the forced persecution out of Bhutan and then living under very limited means while in the refugee camps in Nepal and even the number of challenges the community still [00:22:00] faces. I talked a little bit about mental health needs. There's. There are needs around, health seeking behavior and similar to other immigrant communities as well, but also, on education. Because of the historical division around caste and class and other demographic details, certain folks in the community are geared towards success versus others aren't. And we see that. We see the pattern quite distinct by their indigeneity, by their caste, by their last names. In our community you can tell what their caste is, what their ethnic background is with their last names. So I would invite the audience to learn a little bit more about this community and if you have that space and resources [00:23:00] to be, if you're a researcher, if you want to do some research studies, if you want to bring some programs. If you have scholarship ideas, if you want to create any scholarship for the kids in the community, or if you have means, and if you can donate, either or. It doesn't have to be just, financial resources. It can be sometimes being available as mentor to some of the kids to show them these are the possibilities. To summarize, learn more about the community if you don't know already including some of the new atrocities, the community's facing right now with ICE detention and deportation, even when the community was brought in to this country after years and years of approval through the process. And if you have resources and means help with knowledge sharing, being available or with [00:24:00] financial means either or. I just wanted to mention that I work with ARU and I work with the Bhutanese community, but like I said, I'm not from the Bhutan community. I grew up in Nepal. I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent, but I definitely cannot speak for the experience of going and living as a refugee. So,, if you have any question, if you want to learn more about that, Cheryl and I, we are happy to put you in touch with folks with incredible stories, inspiring stories of resilience in the community. Cheryl (Host): Thank you so much. All of the links, whether to learn more, donate or get involved, as well as information about the disappearances impacting the Bhutanese American community will be included in our show notes. A huge thank you to Pratik from Asian Refugees United for joining us tonight. We're deeply grateful for the work you do and the love you carry for our [00:25:00] communities. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We're going to take a quick music break and when we come back we'll hear more about the summer programming happening across the AACRE network with folks from Lavender Phoenix, and Hmong innovating politics. So don't go anywhere. Next up, you're listening to a track called “Juniper” by Minjoona, a project led by Korean American musician, Jackson Wright. This track features Ari Statler on bass, josh Qiyan on drums, and Ryan Fu producing. Juniper is the lead single from Minjoona's newest release, the Juniper EP, a five track p roject rooted in indie rock, 60 throwback vibes, and lyric forward storytelling. You can follow Minjoona on Instagram at @minjoonamusic or find them on Spotify to keep up with upcoming releases. We'll drop the links in our show notes. Enjoy the track and we'll be right back. [00:26:00] [00:27:00] [00:28:00] [00:29:00] [00:30:00]  And we're back!!. You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. That was “Juniper” by Minjoona.  Huge thanks to Jackson Wright and the whole crew behind that track [00:31:00] Before the break, we were live with Pratik from Asian Refugees United, talking about the powerful summer programming, supporting the Nepalese speaking Bhutanese community in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Now I'm joined by from Blair Phoenix. From Lavender Phoenix, who's here to share about her experiences as a summer organizer In Lav N'S annual summer in Lav N's annual summer organizer in Lav N'S annual summer organizing program. Hi Mar. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Okay. Mar, do you mind for our listeners out there who are just tuning in, do you mind introducing yourself? Mar (LavNix): Yes. Thank you, Cheryl. Hi, y'all. My name is Mar Pronouns, [00:32:00] she/siya/any! I come from the lands of the Ibaloi people in the Philippines or “Maharlika”. I am a queer Muslim and yeah, I'm just happy to be here. Cheryl (Host): Yay. We're so happy to have you here, mar! For those who might not be familiar, Mar is joining us from Lavender Phoenix as part of this year's summer organizing program. Mar,, could you start by giving our listeners a quick introduction to Lavender Phoenix? And then could you tell us a little bit about the summer organizing program and what it's all about? Mar (LavNix): Yeah, of course. Cheryl. Let's start with Lavender Phoenix. Lavender Phoenix is a really awesome nonprofit over here in the Bay Area who focus on trans queer, API. Work basically. I really love Lavender Phoenix because of their unwavering commitment to collective liberation [00:33:00] and the very specific focus and centering around trans queer API leadership because our leadership is often underrepresented and because there's so many intersections there, we need to have trans queer API leadership to be able to move the work. And so really fond of lavender Phoenix's ethos and mission values. This year for the summer 2025, I'm part of their summer organizer program, which is a cohort of organizers both emerging, established and wanting to learn, and we learn a lot of transformative interpersonal organizing skills, but also building our more technical skill sets alongside with that. So we're actually three weeks from graduation [00:34:00] nooooooooo!. Anyways, yeah, just really happy to be in this cohort. I'm feeling really aligned in that I am here and it is transforming me in the way I had intentions for when I applied for it. Cheryl (Host): Wow. It sounds like this was a really impactful program for you. I wanna know what kinds of projects are you all working on?  Mar (LavNix): Yeah, so it's really beautiful because it's not just like a single project the cohort works on, it's kind of a myriad of things. We have two folks who are doing projects with other organizations, and then we have the rest of the folks working on two projects within Lavender Phoenix's programming. And so for my group, my very awesome group, we are doing the River of Life Project, and the River of Life Project is a five week long cohort where we practice storytelling in a very vulnerable and honest way, and this is for the [00:35:00] purpose to really witness one another and to cultivate our storytelling skills because our stories and narratives is so important. There's whole states and governments trying to take that away from us, and so our project is to guide and facilitate this project and meet with members across rank. It's super cool seeing the different facets of lavender Phoenix come together and be down, to be in the act of vulnerability and honesty and that is their praxis for collective liberation. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Yeah. Yeah. That's so well said. And it's so important that we have these spaces to practice that vulnerability because we are so often punished for being who we are. Right. So, mm-hmm. These programs are so crucial as you have uplifted for us. I am so curious to learn more about this River of Life project, but [00:36:00] also before we even get to that, I wanna zoom out a little bit and focus on your growth and who are you now as you get closer three weeks from graduation?  Mar (LavNix): Ooh, that is such a beautiful question, Cheryl. Yeah. I've been really reflecting on how this program transformed me this summer and to bring us back to when I first applied. I first applied sometime in March, I believe. I remember 'cause it was around Ramadan. I was at a point in my life where I felt stagnant in my organizing journey. I would attend all these workshops, I would keep reading, but there was a disconnect in how my mind wanted to move next. So here we are in 2025, I was accepted into the program. I was like, yay, my people. And you know, [00:37:00] my expectations was met. In fact, it was exceeded. Very exceeded because I didn't know these things that i'm learning now. I didn't know how much I needed them until I learned them. In my time with Lavender Phoenix, as I'm reflecting to this point, graduation being three weeks out, I realized that before joining this cohort, my heart and my spirit was in a really bad place, and I think a lot of people could resonate. There's genocides, ethnic cleansings, and just terrible things happening all over the world, and there's like a dichotomy of people who are trying so hard and then there's a dichotomy of people who are unaffected by it. And so my spirit and my heart was so broken down seems really dramatic, but it wasn't being rejuvenated for sure. And so, being in this space and being in a [00:38:00] container that's just honesty and vulnerability and it's all rooted in each other's liberation really replenish that cup. The teachings and the knowledge and the wisdom that I'm getting, it's helping me add more to my North Star, which I'm really thankful of because I didn't know this is what I needed in March. Cheryl (Host): That is so beautiful. So much of what's going on right now by the systems that be, the powers that be, it's meant to isolate us and to make us feel exactly what you said. Capitalism isolates us and keeps us in that place because that's how it benefits . So Lavender Phoenix is summer organizing program, what I'm hearing from you is this revolutionary space that is counter to that. It's filled with hope and dreaming for a better world. So how is that being informed in River of Life, in the storytelling leadership development that you are developing within Lavender Phoenix's membership?  Mar (LavNix): Oh, yes. I'm [00:39:00] understanding the responsibility on how I move in this space. And so before the cohort of the River of Life project presents, it's actually gonna be me and another facilitator going to share our stories. And so we're also in the act of being vulnerable and honest and really wanting the others to witness us as we will witness them. We've removed kind of that superiority in that space. When I think of this, it brings me back to Freire's idea of an engaged pedagogy, but not necessarily like an educator and a student, but like removing hierarchies, which I think is really, a value that's rooted in, or lavender Phoenix is rooted in that value. There's no hierarchy, but there is ranks and we all see each other as equals. It's really beautiful to be able to see that and then know how I move in this [00:40:00] space to prepare our cohort. I hope that my storytelling, I can only hope, I do not know how it's gonna be received inshallah it's received super well. But I really do hope that they see how vulnerable I also get and how I'm doing this so that I could build deeper relationships with these people as I continue my journey with Lavender, Phoenix and to them as well. I hope these values, if not already present in our people, this project helps them cultivate that even further.  Cheryl (Host): I wanna ask what is something you want to share with our listeners who were in a similar space as you who felt lost and that they wanted something to grow in. What advice would you give?  Mar (LavNix): This is a really beautiful question [00:41:00] and So many things flooded my brain as you were asking this question, but i'm feeling more pulled and called to share this one thing . As I'm going through the summer organizer program, I really realized the importance of tending to myself so that I could show up for others. I have to be able to know how to advocate for my needs and what I need so that I can be in spaces with other people. It's so important that I know how to acknowledge my shame or whatever pain points I'm experiencing and let that not be a hindrance to the work, but integrate it in a way that I will tend to it, and by tending to it, I can continue doing the work. And I know it's really [00:42:00] hard to prioritize yourself when it feels like you should prioritize everything else in the world right now, but I am really learning that that's what I needed to do. When I say prioritize myself, I'm not saying oh, I need to go do this and I need to go drink all my water. Yes, also care for our physical bodies and our mental bodies, but also taking time to know who I am as a person and what I could offer to the movement, and knowing how to communicate to others in the movement so that I could show up as a better organizer. And so the final words that I will have to share is I hope everyone who's hearing this shows the love that they have for other people to themselves [00:43:00] too.  Cheryl (Host): That was so beautiful. What you just shared right now about tending to yourself that's part of the work too. And that's so counterintuitive, I feel. This project that you're leading, the river of life where the focus is so much on your story and honoring who you are, I think that is the true essence of what it means to be trans and queer. Showing up with your whole self and embracing that. And in turn, by doing that, you are holding everybody else too, that very practice. To find out more about Lavender Phoenix Mar, how can our listeners plug into Lavender Phoenix's work?  Mar (LavNix): Follow us on Instagram or check out Lavender, Phoenix website. We post a lot. Sign up for the newsletter. Volunteer. We're really cool. Or just look at the staff and see if anybody calls you and you wanna hit them up. We're so awesome. Cheryl (Host): Thank you for joining us on tonight's show, Mar, and for sharing your experiences on Lavender Phoenix's [00:44:00] summer organizing program with all of All of the links that Mar mentioned on how to stay in touch with Lavender Phoenix's work be available in our show notes as per usual. We are so grateful, thank you again, Mar! Next up, we're joined by Katie from Hmong Innovating Politics. Katie. Welcome, welcome. I'm so happy to have you on our show tonight. Would you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Katie (HIP): Hi everyone. My name is Katie. I use she her pronouns. My Hmong name is ING and I mainly introduce myself as ING to my community, especially elders because one ING is my given name. Katie is like a self-assigned name. In my work with HIP I've been trying to figure out what feels more natural when, but I do catch myself introducing myself to my Hmong community. And yeah, I'm totally cool if folks referring to me as Katie Oring and my ask is just pronouncing my name correctly. Who are my people? Who's my community? I would say my community is my family. And then the young people that I work [00:45:00] with, the elders in my community, the ones who would like to claim me, my team. I would say Hmong women that I've met through some of the work that I do at my volunteer org, and oh my goodness, there're so many people. My friends, oh my gosh, if my friends are listening to this, my friends are my community, they're my people. They keep me grounded, alive and fun. My siblings. All of the folks in Fresno and Sacramento that have been a part of the spaces that I've shared at HIP and the spaces that we've created together.  Cheryl (Host): You are a community leader through and through . For folks who are listening and don't know, Hmong Innovating Politics is one of the AACRE groups and it has two different hubs basically in Central California, one in Sacramento, and one in Fresno. Katie, do you mind sharing a little bit about HIP and the work that you all do? Katie (HIP): Yeah. So, we are a power building organization and what does that mean, right? One is that we are [00:46:00] a part of empowering and supporting our community to become active change makers in their community. We believe that those who are most impacted by issues should also be the ones that receive resources and training to lead solutions and design, the dreams of their community. A framework that we use is called Belong Believe Become. We want to create space where young people feel their belongingness, know that they are rooted here in their community, and that they have a place. The believing part of our framework is that we want young people to also see themselves and see themselves as leaders. In their community and leadership can mean many forms, right? There's like passive and active leadership, and we want young people to know that there is enough space in this world for everyone in whichever capacity, they're choosing to show up in their community. The important piece of believing is that, believing that you also like matter and that your decisions are also impactful. And then become is that. [00:47:00] we share this framework and it's circular because we notice that some people can come into our space feeling like I know exactly who I'm gonna be. I know exactly what I wanna do, and feel really disconnected from their history and their, and the multiple parts of their identities. belong, believe become is cyclical and it's wherever you're at. And in this third piece of becoming it is that our young people know that they are leading the charge and transforming systems. That they are shifting the narratives of our community, that they get to own the narratives of our community, and that they are a part of the Power building our community as well. Cheryl (Host): Yeah, I love that . As we're talking, I'm noticing that you talk so much about young people and how so much of your work's framework is centered around young people. Do you mind giving context into that? So much of HIP's programming is on youth leadership, and so I'm wondering what does that look like programming wise and especially right now in the summer? Katie (HIP): Yeah, so it's more [00:48:00] recently that HIP has been identifying ourselves as a power building organization. Before we had claimed our work as base building, and this is through our civic engagement work for voter engagement and empowerment, and turning out the vote that, that is like what we, our organization was like centered on. Through that work, what we noticed was that like cycles and seasons after season, it was young people coming back and then they started asking are you all gonna have like consistent programming space for us, or is it just gonna always be around the election cycle? Through our civic engagement work, a framework that we use is the IVE model, integrated voter engagement. And that is that you are relationship building year after year, even outside of the election season. And so then it was how do we be more intentional about centering the people who are coming to us and centering the people who are shifting and challenging and pushing our leadership. And that was to [00:49:00] then move and prioritize the young people in our community. I think it's been maybe four or five years since this shift where we've really prioritized young people and really centered our work around youth justice. So then we had to create these spaces. Civic engagement work had primarily consisted of phone banking and canvassing and through that I think a lot of young people were then getting firsthand experience of this is like what it's like to be angry about these issue in my community. This is also what it's like to hold space for other people to go through and process their emotions. And then it was like, how do we train and skill up our young people to not only listen to their community, but be able to strategize and lead and take their ideas and dreams and put 'em into action. At the time folks working in our civic engagement programs were high school youth, college transitional age, young adults who are not in college. And we even had parent [00:50:00] age folks in our programs as well. In figuring out how do we better support our young folks was that a lot of young people were asking for more like designated space for youth that are in high school. The other request was can you all not be college based because not all young adults go to college in our community, yet we still wanted to access the programs. We had to strategize around these pieces. Also at the time when we were running civic engagement program, we were also building up our trans and queer work in the Central Valley and figuring out like what is HIP's place in this work? So that landed us into three programs. We have a program called Tsev which is TSEV. Um, and that means House in Hmong, but it's an acronym. It stands for Transforming Systems, empowering Our Village, and the reason why we named our youth program that is in the Hmong community, we refer to our community a lot “lub zos” which means village in English. And so that is why we wanted to name our program with something around the word village and then also [00:51:00] home, belongingness, right? We wanted our program to signify belonging. And so that is what landed us in this program. This program is based at a high school and we train cohorts of youth and the curriculum that we cover in all of our programs are pretty similar, but they are adjusted to be more relevant to the age group and the experiences that we are serving. So we have our high school program. We have our trans and queer young adult program called QHIP, queer Hmong intersectional Pride. And then we also have a young adult program called the Civic Engagement Fellowship, but I feel like we're gonna be revamping next year, so we might have a new name next year. And that one is, open to all young adults of all gender and sexuality. The projects that is focused in that is what's coming up on the election. So specific propositions and measures or whatever we are bringing to the ballot. And then with QHIP, it is very focused on intentionally building up leadership in the trans and queer community. [00:52:00] Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): You all tackle power building in so many different intersections, and I think that's so brilliant. You really tailor these spaces to the needs of your community and you're always listening to your community. That is honestly such a theme within the AACRE network. Could you tell us how these groups stay active during the summer?  Katie (HIP): Yeah! During the summer, we close off the cohort in June when the school year ends. And so we're actually in the assessment phase of this program right now. Our seniors throughout the summer go through a one-on-one exit with one of the staff in Fresno or Sacramento. After the senior exit closes out, then we'll be doing a overall annual assessment with all of the young people that were in the program this year. We're actually closing both these pieces out next week. We try to make things fun, right? So for the one-on-ones, we'll all come to the office and we'll have the one-on-one exit interviews and after that we'll go get lunch. somewhere cute, somewhere fun. Then with the end of the year evals, after we complete them for everyone, we'll just hang out. This [00:53:00] year we're planning to do like a paint by numbers night. And then we always somehow end up karaoking. For QHIP, our trans and queer young adult program we actually partner with Lavender Phoenix and have them attend the leadership exchange program that's happening right now. We did our own onboarding and then we celebrated the month of pride. And we also celebrated the trans march. Then after that transition into the leadership exchange program at Lavender Phoenix. After that program, I believe our lead members are going to be designing some projects this summer. And then they'll have the rest of the summer and hours to do their projects, and then we'll eventually close out with a retreat with them. Cheryl (Host): And for our listeners out there, do you mind giving a quick a preview on what lavender, Phoenix's leadership exchange program is and how you all work in tandem with each other?  Katie (HIP): Yeah. Okay. I know in the past, we've sent our more new to organizing leaders [00:54:00] to the leadership exchange program. This year the intention is that we wanted to send leaders from our community who might already have some organizing experience who have some experience in social justice and movement work. And so, during this I think some of my favorite things from the leadership exchange program is teaching folks how to ask for help. I think a lot of our young adults navigate their lives not knowing who to turn to for help and how to formulate and ask that is clear and supportive of their needs. So that's something that we really appreciate through the leadership exchange program. And another piece is mutual aid funding. Lavender Phoenix trains up leaders around fundraising support and that's something I'm really looking forward to our young people gaining. The other piece is ultimately training of trans and queer leaders in our community so that we can continue to sustain this movement and this lifelong work of trans and queer liberation. The leadership exchange program has been able to equip folks with very necessary skills so that they can continue to sustain trans and queer [00:55:00] leadership. I bring in the fundraising piece because, I think a lot of young people that I work with, they're so scared to ask for resource support, especially money. And I think a lot of it comes with our own family trauma around finances, right? So, I'm excited to see what they debrief about and what they reflect on.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. It really sounds like all of these programs that you all do are really building up leaders for the long term of our movements. Asking for help is so related to navigating money, trauma and is so key in shaping liberatory futures. For folks out there who wanna get plugged into some of HIP's programming work, how can we stay in touch with you all? Katie (HIP): Our Instagram is the best spot. And then on our Instagram you can click on the little short link to sign up for our newsletter. We have some volunteer opportunities coming up in the month of August so if folks in the Central Valley wanna support with one of our community engagement [00:56:00] surveys, either to partake in the survey or to support us in doing the outreach and getting the word out so that folks complete the survey. There's two ways that you can participate with us. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Thanks, Katie, and of course all of those links will be available in our show notes. Thanks so much for coming on our show tonight, Katie, and thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll see you next time. [00:57:00] [00:58:00]  The post APEX Express – August 21, 2025 Sumer Programming in the AACRE Network appeared first on KPFA.

Hawaii's most popular tourist attraction is on the north shore of Oahu and its' talented performers are students at BYU Hawaii. Now a new film called "Sharing Aloha" goes backstage and to the heart of the Polynesian Cultural Center revealing what it means for young Pacific Islanders to preserve and pass on their ancestral heritage. "Sharing Aloha" is winning awards and film festivals around the world and opens in Utah theaters August 29th. In this episode, FM100.3 Host Rebecca Cressman is joined by Director/Producer Blair True who explains how the emotional documentary captures the stories of the students as they seek their place in the world. 

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   In this two-part series of Oakland Asian Cultural Center's “Let's Talk” podcast Eastside Arts Alliance is featured. Elena Serrano and Susanne Takehara, two of the founders of Eastside Arts Alliance, and staff member Aubrey Pandori will discuss the history that led to the formation of Eastside and their deep work around multi-racial solidarity.   Transcript: Let's Talk podcast episode 9  [00:00:00] Emma: My name is Emma Grover, and I am the program and communications coordinator at the Oakland Asian Cultural Center, known also as OACC. Today we are sharing the ninth episode of our Let's Talk Audio Series. Let's Talk is part of OACC'S Open Ears for Change Initiative, which was established in 2020. With this series, our goals are to address anti-Blackness in the APIA communities, discuss the effects of colorism and racism in a safe space, and highlight Black and Asian solidarity and community efforts specifically in the Oakland Chinatown area. Today's episode is a round table discussion with Elena Serrano, Susanne Takahara, and Aubrey Pandori of Eastside Arts Alliance.  [00:00:53] Aubrey: Hello everybody. This is Aubrey from Eastside Arts Alliance, and I am back here for the second part of our Let's Talk with Suzanne and Elena. We're gonna be talking about what else Eastside is doing right now in the community. The importance of art in activism, and the importance of Black and Asian solidarity in Oakland and beyond.  So I am the community archivist here at Eastside Arts Alliances. I run CARP, which stands for Community Archival Resource Project. It is a project brought on by one of our co-founders, Greg Morozumi. And it is primarily a large chunk of his own collection from over the years, but it is a Third World archive with many artifacts, journals, pens, newspapers from social movements in the Bay Area and beyond, international social movements from the 1960s forward. We do a few different programs through CARP. I sometimes have archival exhibitions. We do public engagement through panels, community archiving days. We collaborate with other community archives like the Bay Area Lesbian Archives and Freedom Archives here in Oakland and the Bay Area. And we are also working on opening up our Greg Morozumi Reading Room in May. So that is an opportunity for people to come in and relax, read books, host reading groups, or discussions with their community. We're also gonna be opening a lending system so people are able to check out books to take home and read. There'll be library cards coming soon for that and other fun things to come.  [00:02:44] So Suzanne, what are you working on at Eastside right now? [00:02:48] Susanne: Well, for the past like eight or nine years I've been working with Jose Ome Navarrete and Debbie Kajiyama of NAKA Dance Theater to produce Live Arts and Resistance (LAIR), which is a Dance Theater Performance series. We've included many artists who, some of them started out here at Eastside and then grew to international fame, such as Dohee Lee, and then Amara Tabor-Smith has graced our stages for several years with House Full of Black Women. This year we're working with Joti Singh on Ghadar Geet: Blood and Ink, a piece she choreographed, and shot in film and it's a multimedia kind of experience. We've worked with Cat Brooks and many emerging other artists who are emerging or from all over, mostly Oakland, but beyond. It's a place where people can just experiment and not worry about a lot of the regulations that bigger theaters have. Using the outside, the inside, the walls, the ceiling sometimes. It's been an exciting experience to work with so many different artists in our space.  [00:04:03] Elena: And I have been trying to just get the word out to as many different folks who can help sustain the organization as possible about the importance of the work we do here. So my main job with Eastside has been raising money. But what we're doing now is looking at cultural centers like Eastside, like Oakland Asian Cultural Center, like the Malonga Casquelord Center, like Black Cultural Zone, like the Fruitvale Plaza and CURJ's work. These really integral cultural hubs. In neighborhoods and how important those spaces are.  [00:04:42] So looking at, you know, what we bring to the table with the archives, which serve the artistic community, the organizing community. There's a big emphasis, and we had mentioned some of this in the first episode around knowing the history and context of how we got here so we can kind of maneuver our way out. And that's where books and movies and posters and artists who have been doing this work for so long before us come into play in the archives and then having it all manifest on the stage through programs like LAIR, where theater artists and dancers and musicians, and it's totally multimedia, and there's so much information like how to keep those types of places going is really critical.  [00:05:28] And especially now when public dollars have mostly been cut, like the City of Oakland hardly gave money to the arts anyway, and they tried to eliminate the entire thing. Then they're coming back with tiny bits of money. But we're trying to take the approach like, please, let's look at where our tax dollars go. What's important in a neighborhood? What has to stay and how can we all work together to make that happen?  [00:05:52] Susanne: And I want to say that our Cultural Center theater is a space that is rented out very affordably to not just artists, but also many organizations that are doing Movement work, such as Palestinian Youth Movement, Bala, Mujeres Unidas Y Activas, QT at Cafe Duo Refugees, United Haiti Action Committee, Freedom Archives, Oakland Sin Fronteras, Center for CPE, and many artists connected groups.  [00:06:22] Aubrey: Yeah, I mean, we do so much more than what's in the theater and Archive too, we do a lot of different youth programs such as Girl Project, Neighborhood Arts, where we do public murals. One of our collective members, Angie and Leslie, worked on Paint the Town this past year. We also have our gallery in between the Cultural Center and Bandung Books, our bookstore, which houses our archive. We are celebrating our 25th anniversary exhibition.  [00:06:54] Susanne: And one of the other exhibits we just wrapped up was Style Messengers, an exhibit of graffiti work from Dime, Spy and Surge, Bay Area artists and Surge is from New York City, kind of illustrating the history of graffiti and social commentary.  [00:07:30] Elena: We are in this studio here recording and this is the studio of our youth music program Beats Flows, and I love we're sitting here with this portrait of Amiri Baraka, who had a lot to say to us all the time. So it's so appropriate that when the young people are in the studio, they have this elder, magician, poet activist looking at him, and then when you look out the window, you see Sister Souljah, Public Enemy, and then a poster we did during, when Black Lives Matter came out, we produced these posters that said Black Power Matters, and we sent them all over the country to different sister cultural centers and I see them pop up somewhere sometimes and people's zooms when they're home all over the country. It's really amazing and it just really shows when you have a bunch of artists and poets and radical imagination, people sitting around, you know, what kind of things come out of it. [00:08:31] Aubrey: I had one of those Black Power Matters posters in my kitchen window when I lived in Chinatown before I worked here, or visited here actually. I don't even know how I acquired it, but it just ended up in my house somehow.  [00:08:45] Elena: That's perfect. I remember when we did, I mean we still do, Malcolm X Jazz Festival and it was a young Chicana student who put the Jazz Festival poster up and she was like, her parents were like, why is Malcolm X? What has that got to do with anything? And she was able to just tell the whole story about Malcolm believing that people, communities of color coming together  is a good thing. It's a powerful thing. And it was amazing how the festival and the youth and the posters can start those kind of conversations.  [00:09:15] Aubrey: Malcolm X has his famous quote that says “Culture is an indispensable weapon in the freedom struggle.” And Elena, we think a lot about Malcolm X and his message here at Eastside about culture, but also about the importance of art. Can we speak more about the importance of art in our activism?  [00:09:35] Elena: Well, that was some of the things we were touching on around radical imagination and the power of the arts. But where I am going again, is around this power of the art spaces, like the power of spaces like this, and to be sure that it's not just a community center, it's a cultural center, which means we invested in sound good, sound good lighting, sprung floors. You know, just like the dignity and respect that the artists and our audiences have, and that those things are expensive but critical. So I feel like that's, it's like to advocate for this type of space where, again, all those groups that we listed off that have come in here and there's countless more. They needed a space to reach constituencies, you know, and how important that is. It's like back in the civil rights organizing the Black church was that kind of space, very important space where those kind of things came together. People still go to church and there's still churches, but there's a space for cultural centers and to have that type of space where artists and activists can come together and be more powerful together.  [00:10:50] Aubrey: I think art is a really powerful way of reaching people. [00:10:54] Elena: You know, we're looking at this just because I, being in the development end, we put together a proposal for the Environmental Protection Agency before Donald (Trump) took it over. We were writing about how important popular education is, so working with an environmental justice organization who has tons of data about how impacted communities like East Oakland and West Oakland are suffering from all of this, lots of science. But what can we, as an arts group, how can we produce a popular education around those things? And you know, how can we say some of those same messages in murals and zines, in short films, in theater productions, you know, but kind of embracing that concept of popular education. So we're, you know, trying to counter some of the disinformation that's being put out there too with some real facts, but in a way that, you know, folks can grasp onto and, and get.  [00:11:53] Aubrey: We recently had a LAIR production called Sky Watchers, and it was a beautiful musical opera from people living in the Tenderloin, and it was very personal. You were able to hear about people's experiences with poverty, homelessness, and addiction in a way that was very powerful. How they were able to express what they were going through and what they've lost, what they've won, everything that has happened in their lives in a very moving way. So I think art, it's, it's also a way for people to tell their stories and we need to be hearing those stories. We don't need to be hearing, I think what a lot of Hollywood is kind of throwing out, which is very white, Eurocentric beauty standards and a lot of other things that doesn't reflect our neighborhood and doesn't reflect our community. So yeah, art is a good way for us to not only tell our stories, but to get the word out there, what we want to see changed.  So our last point that we wanna talk about today is the importance of Black and Asian solidarity in Oakland. How has that been a history in Eastside, Suzanne?  [00:13:09] Susanne: I feel like Eastside is all about Third World solidarity from the very beginning. And Yuri Kochiyama is one of our mentors through Greg Morozumi and she was all about that. So I feel like everything we do brings together Black, Asian and brown folks. [00:13:27] Aubrey: Black and Asian solidarity is especially important here at Eastside Arts Alliance. It is a part of our history. We have our bookstore called Bandung Books for a very specific reason, to give some history there. So the Bandung Conference happened in 1955 in Indonesia, and it was the first large-scale meeting of Asian and African countries. Most of which were newly independent from colonialism. They aimed to promote Afro-Asian cooperation and rejection of colonialism and imperialism in all nations. And it really set the stage for revolutionary solidarity between colonized and oppressed people, letting way for many Third Worlds movements internationally and within the United States.  [00:14:14] Eastside had an exhibition called Bandung to the Bay: Black and Asian Solidarity at Oakland Asian Cultural Center the past two years in 2022 and 2023 for their Lunar New Year and Black History Month celebrations. It highlighted the significance of that conference and also brought to light what was happening in the United States from the 1960s to present time that were creating and building solidarity between Black and Asian communities. The exhibition highlighted a number of pins, posters, and newspapers from the Black Liberation Movement and Asian American movement, as well as the broader Third World movement. The Black Panthers were important points of inspiration in Oakland, in the Bay Area in getting Asian and Pacific Islanders in the diaspora, and in their homelands organized.  [00:15:07] We had the adoption of the Black Panthers 10-point program to help shape revolutionary demands and principles for people's own communities like the Red Guard in San Francisco's Chinatown, IWK in New York's Chinatown and even the Polynesian Panthers in New Zealand. There were so many different organizations that came out of the Black Panther party right here in Oakland. And we honor that by having so many different 10-point programs up in our theater too. We have the Brown Berets, Red Guard Party, Black Panthers, of course, the American Indian Movement as well. So we're always thinking about that kind of organizing and movement building that has been tied here for many decades now.  [00:15:53] Elena: I heard that the term Third World came from the Bandung conference. [00:15:58] Aubrey: Yes, I believe that's true.  [00:16:01] Elena: I wanted to say particularly right now, the need for specifically Black Asian solidarity is just, there's so much misinformation around China coming up now, especially as China takes on a role of a superpower in the world. And it's really up to us to provide some background, some other information, some truth telling, so folks don't become susceptible to that kind of misinformation. And whatever happens when it comes from up high and we hate China, it reflects in Chinatown. And that's the kind of stereotyping that because we have been committed to Third World solidarity and truth telling for so long, that that's where we can step in and really, you know, make a difference, we hope. I think the main point is that we need to really listen to each other, know what folks are going through, know that we have more in common than we have separating us, especially in impacted Black, brown, Asian communities in Oakland. We have a lot to do.  [00:17:07] Aubrey: To keep in contact with Eastside Arts Alliance, you can find us at our website: eastside arts alliance.org, and our Instagrams at Eastside Cultural and at Bandung Books to stay connected with our bookstore and CArP, our archive, please come down to Eastside Arts Alliance and check out our many events coming up in the new year. We are always looking for donations and volunteers and just to meet new friends and family.  [00:17:36] Susanne: And with that, we're gonna go out with Jon Jang's “The Pledge of Black Asian Alliance,” produced in 2018.  [00:18:29] Emma: This was a round table discussion at the Eastside Arts Alliance Cultural Center with staff and guests: Elena, Suzanne and Aubrey.  Let's Talk Audio series is one of OACC'S Open Ears for Change projects and as part of the Stop the Hate Initiative with funds provided by the California Department of Social Services in consultation with the commission of Asian and Pacific Islander American Affairs to administer $110 million allocated over three years to community organizations. These organizations provide direct services to victims of hate and their families and offer prevention and intervention services to tackle hate in our communities. This episode is a production of the Oakland Asian Cultural Center with engineering, editing, and sound design by Thick Skin Media.  [00:19:18] A special thanks to Jon Jang for permission to use his original music. And thank you for listening.  [00:19:32] Music: Life is not what you alone make it. Life is the input of everyone who touched your life and every experience that entered it. We are all part of one another. Don't become too narrow, live fully, meet all kinds of people. You'll learn something from everyone. Follow what you feel in your heart. OACC Podcast [00:00:00] Emma: My name is Emma Grover, and I am the program and communications coordinator at the Oakland Asian Cultural Center, known also as OACC. Today we are sharing the eighth episode of our Let's Talk audio series. Let's talk as part of OACC's Open Ears for Change Initiative, which was established in 2020. With this series, our goals are to address anti-blackness in the APIA communities, discuss the effects of colorism and racism in a safe space, and highlight black and Asian solidarity and community efforts specifically in the Oakland Chinatown area.   [00:00:43] Today's guests are Elena Serrano and Suzanne Takahara, co-founders of Eastside Arts Alliance. Welcome Elena and Suzanne, thank you so much for joining today's episode. And so just to kick things off, wanna hear about how was Eastside Arts Alliance started?   [00:01:01] Susanne: Well, it was really Greg Morozumi who had a longstanding vision of creating a cultural center in East Oakland, raised in Oakland, an organizer in the Bay Area, LA, and then in New York City where he met Yuri Kochiyama, who became a lifelong mentor.   [00:01:17] Greg was planning with one of Yuri's daughters, Ichi Kochiyama to move her family to Oakland and help him open a cultural center here. I met Greg in the early nineties and got to know him during the January, 1993 “No Justice, No Peace” show at Pro Arts in Oakland. The first Bay Graffiti exhibition in the gallery. Greg organized what became a massive anti-police brutality graffiti installation created by the TDDK crew. Graffiti images and messages covered the walls and ceiling complete with police barricades. It was a response to the Rodney King protests. The power of street art busted indoors and blew apart the gallery with political messaging. After that, Greg recruited Mike Dream, Spy, and other TDK writers to help teach the free art classes for youth that Taller Sin Fronteras was running at the time.   [00:02:11] There were four artist groups that came together to start Eastside. Taller Sin Fronteras was an ad hoc group of printmakers and visual artists activists based in the East Bay. Their roots came out of the free community printmaking, actually poster making workshops that artists like Malaquias Montoya and David Bradford organized in Oakland in the early 70s and 80s.   [00:02:34] The Black Dot Collective of poets, writers, musicians, and visual artists started a popup version of the Black Dot Cafe. Marcel Diallo and Leticia Utafalo were instrumental and leaders of this project. 10 12 were young digital artists and activists led by Favianna Rodriguez and Jesus Barraza in Oakland. TDK is an Oakland based graffiti crew that includes Dream, Spie, Krash, Mute, Done Amend, Pak and many others evolving over time and still holding it down.   [00:03:07] Elena: That is a good history there. And I just wanted to say that me coming in and meeting Greg and knowing all those groups and coming into this particular neighborhood, the San Antonio district of Oakland, the third world aspect of who we all were and what communities we were all representing and being in this geographic location where those communities were all residing. So this neighborhood, San Antonio and East Oakland is very third world, Black, Asian, Latinx, indigenous, and it's one of those neighborhoods, like many neighborhoods of color that has been disinvested in for years. But rich, super rich in culture.   [00:03:50] So the idea of a cultural center was…let's draw on where our strengths are and all of those groups, TDKT, Taller Sin Fronters, Black artists, 10 – 12, these were all artists who were also very engaged in what was going on in the neighborhoods. So artists, organizers, activists, and how to use the arts as a way to lift up those stories tell them in different ways. Find some inspiration, ways to get out, ways to build solidarity between the groups, looking at our common struggles, our common victories, and building that strength in numbers.   [00:04:27] Emma: Thank you so much for sharing. Elena and Suzanne, what a rich and beautiful history for Eastside Arts Alliance.   [00:04:34] Were there any specific political and or artistic movements happening at that time that were integral to Eastside's start?   [00:04:41] Elena: You know, one of the movements that we took inspiration from, and this was not happening when Eastside got started, but for real was the Black Panther Party. So much so that the Panthers 10-point program was something that Greg xeroxed and made posters and put 'em up on the wall, showing how the 10-point program for the Panthers influenced that of the Young Lords and the Brown Berets and I Wor Kuen (IWK).   [00:05:07] So once again, it was that Third world solidarity. Looking at these different groups that were working towards similar things, it still hangs these four posters still hang in our cultural, in our theater space to show that we were all working on those same things. So even though we came in at the tail end of those movements, when we started Eastside, it was very much our inspiration and what we strove to still address; all of those points are still relevant right now.   [00:05:36] Susanne: So that was a time of Fight The Power, Kaos One and Public Enemy setting. The tone for public art murals, graphics, posters. So that was kind of the context for which art was being made and protests happened.   [00:05:54] Elena: There was a lot that needed to be done and still needs to be done. You know what? What the other thing we were coming on the tail end of and still having massive repercussions was crack. And crack came into East Oakland really hard, devastated generations, communities, everything, you know, so the arts were a way for some folks to still feel power and feel strong and feel like they have agency in the world, especially hip hop and, spray can, and being out there and having a voice and having a say, it was really important, especially in neighborhoods where things had just been so messed up for so long.   [00:06:31] Emma: I would love to know also what were the community needs Eastside was created to address, you know, in this environment where there's so many community needs, what was Eastside really honing in on at this time?   [00:06:41] Elena: It's interesting telling our story because we end up having to tell so many other stories before us, so things like the, Black Arts movement and the Chicano Arts Movement. Examples of artists like Amiri Baraka, Malaguias Montoya, Sonya Sanchez. Artists who had committed themselves to the struggles of their people and linking those two works. So we always wanted to have that. So the young people that we would have come into the studio and wanna be rappers, you know, it's like, what is your responsibility?   [00:07:15] You have a microphone, you amplify. What are some of the things you're saying? So it was on us. To provide that education and that backstory and where they came from and the footsteps we felt like they were in and that they needed to keep moving it forward. So a big part of the cultural center in the space are the archives and all of that information and history and context.   [00:07:37] Susanne: And we started the Malcolm X Jazz Arts Festival for that same reason coming out of the Bandung Conference. And then the Tri Continental, all of this is solidarity between people's movements.   [00:07:51] Emma: You've already talked about this a little bit, the role of the arts in Eastside's foundation and the work that you're doing, and I'd love to hear also maybe how the role of the arts continues to be important in the work that you're doing today as a cultural center.   [00:08:04] And so my next question to pose to you both is what is the role of the arts at Eastside?   [00:08:10] Elena: So a couple different things. One, I feel like, and I said a little bit of this before, but the arts can transmit messages so much more powerfully than other mediums. So if you see something acted out in a theater production or a song or a painting, you get that information transmitted in a different way.   [00:08:30] Then also this idea of the artists being able to tap into imagination and produce images and visions and dreams of the future. This kind of imagination I just recently read or heard because folks aren't reading anymore or hardly reading that they're losing their imagination. What happens when you cannot even imagine a way out of things?   [00:08:54] And then lastly, I just wanted to quote something that Favianna Rodriguez, one of our founders always says “cultural shift precedes political shift.” So if you're trying to shift things politically on any kind of policy, you know how much money goes to support the police or any of these issues. It's the cultural shift that needs to happen first. And that's where the cultural workers, the artists come in.   [00:09:22] Susanne: And another role of Eastside in supporting the arts to do just that is honoring the artists, providing a space where they can have affordable rehearsal space or space to create, or a place to come safely and just discuss things that's what we hope and have created for the Eastside Cultural Center and now the bookstore and the gallery. A place for them to see themselves and it's all um, LGBTA, BIPOC artists that we serve and honor in our cultural center. To that end, we, in the last, I don't know, 8, 9 years, we've worked with Jose Navarrete and Debbie Kajiyama of Naka Dance Theater to produce live arts and resistance, which gives a stage to emerging and experienced performance artists, mostly dancers, but also poets, writers, theater and actors and musicians.   [00:10:17] Emma: The last question I have for you both today is what is happening in the world that continues to call us to action as artists?   [00:10:27] Elena: Everything, everything is happening, you know, and I know things have always been happening, but it seems really particularly crazy right now on global issues to domestic issues. For a long time, Eastside was um, really focusing in on police stuff and immigration stuff because it was a way to bring Black and brown communities together because they were the same kind of police state force, different ways.   [00:10:54] Now we have it so many different ways, you know, and strategies need to be developed. Radical imagination needs to be deployed. Everyone needs to be on hand. A big part of our success and our strength is organizations that are not artistic organizations but are organizing around particular issues globally, locally come into our space and the artists get that information. The community gets that information. It's shared information, and it gives us all a way, hopefully, to navigate our way out of it.   [00:11:29] Susanne: The Cultural Center provides a venue for political education for our communities and our artists on Palestine, Haiti, Sudan, immigrant rights, prison abolition, police abolition, sex trafficking, and houselessness among other things.   [00:11:46] Elena: I wanted to say too, a big part of what's going on is this idea of public disinvestment. So housing, no such thing as public housing, hardly anymore. Healthcare, education, we're trying to say access to cultural centers. We're calling that the cultural infrastructure of neighborhoods. All of that must be continued to be supported and we can't have everything be privatized and run by corporations. So that idea of these are essential things in a neighborhood, schools, libraries, cultural spaces, and you know, and to make sure cultural spaces gets on those lists.   [00:12:26] Emma: I hear you. And you know, I think every category you brought up, actually just now I can think of one headline or one piece of news recently that is really showing how critically these are being challenged, these basic rights and needs of the community. And so thank you again for the work that you're doing and keeping people informed as well. I think sometimes with all the news, both globally and, and in our more local communities in the Bay Area or in Oakland. It can be so hard to know what actions to take, what tools are available. But again, that's the importance of having space for this type of education, for this type of activism. And so I am so grateful that Eastside exists and is continuing to serve our community in this way.   What is Eastside Arts Alliance up to today? Are there any ways we can support your collective, your organization, what's coming up?   [00:13:18] Elena: Well, this is our 25th anniversary. So the thing that got us really started by demonstrating to the community what a cultural center was, was the Malcolm X Jazz Arts Festival, and that this year will be our 25th anniversary festival happening on May 17th.   [00:13:34] It's always free. It's in San Antonio Park. It's an amazing day of organizing and art and music, multi-generational. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful day. Folks can find out. We have stuff going on every week. Every week at the cultural center on our website through our socials. Our website is Eastside Arts alliance.org, and all the socials are there and there's a lot of information from our archives that you can look up there. There's just just great information on our website, and we also send out a newsletter.   [00:14:07] Emma: Thank you both so much for sharing, and I love you bringing this idea, but I hear a lot of arts and activism organizations using this term radical imagination and how it's so needed for bringing forth the future that we want for ourselves and our future generations.   [00:14:24] And so I just think that's so beautiful that Eastside creates that space, cultivates a space where that radical imagination can take place through the arts, but also through community connections. Thank you so much Elena and Suzanne for joining us today.   [00:14:40] Susanne: Thank you for having us.   [00:15:32] Emma: Let's Talk Audio series is one of OACC'S Open Ears for Change projects and is part of the Stop the Hate Initiative with funds provided by the California Department of Social Services. In consultation with the commission of Asian and Pacific Islander American Affairs to administer $110 million allocated over three years to community organizations. These organizations provide direct services to victims of hate and their families, and offer prevention and intervention services to tackle hate in our communities.   This episode is a production of the Oakland Asian Cultural Center with engineering, editing, and sound design by Thick Skin Media. A special thanks to Jon Jang for permission to use his original music, and thank you for listening.   [00:16:34] Music: Life is not what you alone make it. Life is the input of everyone who touched your life and every experience that entered it. We are all part of one another. Don't become too narrow. Live fully, meet all kinds of people. You'll learn something from everyone. Follow what you feel in your heart. The post APEX Express – August 14, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

Across the last 18 seasons of the Clink, We have had some really raw conversations. This is one of most listen to episodes with Diana from the Number 8 Prison Project. Diana from the Number 8 Prison Project shares the deeply personal story of her son’s incarceration and the urgent need for change in how the justice system treats Pacific Islander communities. In this powerful conversation, she opens up about the emotional toll on families, the realities inside prison walls, and her mission to bring hope and support to those often forgotten.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On tonight's edition of Obbligato on APEX Express, which focuses on AAPI artists, musicians, and composers in the classical music world, host Isabel Li is joined by LA based performer and composer Richard An, who plays and creates new avant-garde music, usually with the ensemble House on Fire, and his music has been performed by the LA Phil and the Calder Quartet to name a few. Join us in our conversation, exploring the possibilities of avant-garde music, raising questions regarding Asian identities in the classical music world, and Richard's insights on art making during a time when Trump's cuts to the NEA are affecting artists and institutions nationwide. Featured Music: Sonatrinas: https://richardan.bandcamp.com/album/sonatrinas i got the electroshock blues: https://rasprecords.bandcamp.com/album/i-got-the-electroshock-blues   RICHARD AN (b.1995) is a performer and composer, born and raised in Los Angeles. Richard plays new music – usually with House on Fire – co-founded the tiny backpack new music series, and has performed with Monday Evening Concerts' Echoi Ensemble, Piano Spheres, The Industry and on Bang on a Can's LOUD Weekend. Richard plays piano and percussion, and has been known to sing, conduct, and teach. Richard's music has been performed by the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra, Calder Quartet, HOCKET, C3LA, and more. His music has been released on CMNTX Records. Richard has a BM in Composition from USC and an MFA from CalArts. He is on faculty at the Pasadena Waldorf School, Glendale Community College and Harvard-Westlake. He plays taiko and tabla, and makes YouTube videos. Learn more about Richard's work on his website: https://richardanmusic.com/ Richard's social media: https://www.instagram.com/richardanmusic/ If you are in LA and want hear Richard's work, he's playing with House on Fire at the Sierra Madre Playhouse on August 17! https://www.sierramadreplayhouse.org/event/richardan2025   Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] APEX Express. Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the APEX Express. 00:00:46 Isabel Li Good evening and welcome back to a new episode of Apex Express on KPFA, 94.1 FM. We are bringing you an Asian and Asian American view from the Bay and around the world. I'm your host, Isabel Li, and tonight is a new edition of Obbligato, which explores AAPI identities and classical music. Tonight I'm joined by LA based performer and composer Richard An, who plays and creates new avant-garde music, usually with the ensemble House on Fire, and his music has been performed by the LA Phil and the Calder Quartet to name a few. Join us in our conversation, exploring the possibilities of avant-garde music, raising questions regarding Asian identities in the classical music world, and Richard's insights on art making during a time when Trump's cuts to the NEA are affecting artists and institutions nationwide. 00:01:41 Isabel Li Welcome to the show. Welcome to APEX Express, Richard. My first question for you is how do you identify and what communities would you say that you're a part of? 00:01:50 Richard An My name is Richard An I use he/him pronouns and I'm a second generation Korean American. My parents are both Korean. My dad came from Busan, which is a large city in South Korea, and my mom was born in Seoul and then moved to South America and then made her way up to Los Angeles where they met. And as for identity, like, I think Korean American would be the most accurate one. This is and I think an ever evolving part of first of all my identity and the way that it intersects with my practice and also I think that's the case with many Asian American artists, I mean artists from immigrant families, you know, the the matter of your identity, especially if you feel more distanced from it for one reason or another, is like an unsolved question for everyone like there is no one answer. That works for people and that's a thing that me people like myself I think will be exploring for our entire lives. When I introduce myself to people, I say that I'm a classical musician. And at the very core of it, that is true. That's not a lie. And I am, you know, a part of the classical music community in Los Angeles. But as time goes on, I have noticed and realized. That I tend to align myself more with like the avant-garde and experimental contemporary music communities of Los Angeles, which has certainly an overlap with the classical community, both in practice and historically, but yeah, I I would say those are the sort of two biggest ones, classical musicians and experimental avant-garde, contemporary musicians, whatever label you want to use for that. 00:03:47 Isabel Li Yeah. Some of our listeners might not know what avant-garde music entails. Can you — how would you describe avant-garde music to someone who might not be as familiar with this particular movement? 00:03:57 Richard An Yeah. So avant-garde music, a sort of flippant and joking way to to talk about it is ugly music or music. You know, my dad, for example, wouldn't like, but I think. It's music that either interfaces with elements or confronts facets or issues in music that aren't typical of other kinds of music. The music that you might hear that is labeled of on guard might be noisy or dissonant or uncomfortable, or any kind of, you know, adjectives that are synonyms for noisy or ugly, but I have come to love that kind of music, you know 1. Because of the the kind of questions that they might ask about our perceptions of music and two, because I guess one way to put it is that to be a classical musician, you need to be in a practice room for many hours a day for many years and go to what is unfortunately a college, which is usually very expensive and I guess for lack of a better term, paywalled for like you need to have the kind of resources that allow you to attend a four year undergrad and then a two year masters and then a three-year doctorate. But avant-garde music, contemporary music, experimental music doesn't necessitate that kind of thing. Often those musicians do have a background that gives them some amount of, you know, virtuosity or facility in an instrument. But like some of the best experimental musicians. Alive and some of the best ones that I know have no, like extensive training in a particular instrument and some may not have a degree in music at all. And that's one thing that I in like that separates it from classical music is that. 00:05:44 Richard An Classical music can be, unfortunately a little bit exclusionary. I don't think by any one specific design, but the fact that you need so many hours and very specific instructions from a mentor that necessitate that kind of relationship. But experimental music, I think does a little bit better job of diversifying or making it feel more equitable. 00:06:12 Isabel Li That's a great point, actually. One of my questions following up with that was what do you think is possible with this genre, which you kind of mentioned earlier with perhaps how this genre makes classical music a little bit more equitable for those who are interested in this field. In your experience, composing, what do you think makes the genre special, and how do you go about it? 00:06:35 Richard An One thing that I've noticed about being involved in the sort of contemporary experimental avant-garde music sphere is that it makes me a better listener, and I think other people who attend these concerts will agree. Like for example a large part of this kind of music is drone or repetition or, you know, like long spans of unchanging sound. And if the the sound that is being produced at face value is not changing, well then what do you notice about it? What do you grab on to and one of the most, I think, gratifying experiences is listening deeper and realizing that, ohh, even though you know for example this piano playing two notes for 30 minutes might not like the instructions will say to do the same thing for 30 minutes, but your experience as a human being will certainly change over those 30 minutes, even if the the notes are not like you will notice the slight fluctuations in the way that someone is playing, you will notice the beating patterns in the pitches on an instrument that may not be perfectly in tune, you will note other ambient sounds, you will note like you will notice so much more about the world when you are confronted with the kind of music that you know. You can say it forces you to listen to these sounds but also invites you to listen to these things. And I think that's really, really special. That's not to say that that can't happen with other kinds of music. Or even with classical music. Surely you know there are many, many ways to listen to everything. But I've noticed this within myself. When I listen to long, repetitive drone based music that it really opens my ears and makes me a more active participant as a listener. 00:08:30 Isabel Li It's a great point actually. Part of my work– because I studied music, history and theory in college– was how music can engage various listeners to participate. Have you composed anything that perhaps engages the listener in this more of a participatory setting? 00:08:47 Richard An Yeah. So I guess in order the some of the stuff that I've done to engage the audience, I guess both literally, and maybe more figuratively is, I wrote a piece last year for the Dog Star festival, which is a a contemporary and experimental music festival that is actually happening right now, at the time of this recording. It's a multi week long festival that focuses on music of this type that was founded by people in the sort of CalArts music world. But I wrote a piece for that last year for three melodicas, which are these basically toy instruments that look like keyboards, but you blow into them and you blowing air through these makes the sound happen. It's basically like if you cross a harmonica and a piano together. But I I wrote a piece for three of these, playing essentially the same notes. And because these instruments are pretty cheap, and they're often considered toys or, you know, instruments for children, they're not tuned to the exact way that, like a piano or a vibraphone or an expensive instrument might be. But I wanted to use that for my advantage. For example, if I play an F# on one melodica the same F# on another melodica will not be exactly the same and playing those two pitches together will produce what's known as a a beat or beat frequency. Which is, you know, a complicated, you know, mathematic physics thing, but basically 2 notes that are really, really close, but not quite together will create a kind of third rhythm because the the pitches are so close. Like, for example, if if I play an A at 4:40 and another A at 441, you will notice that difference of 1 Hertz inside of your ears. And that's a really cool phenomenon that happens explicitly because you were there listening to the piece. They don't happen necessarily, you know, like in, in recorded formats like, it's a very difficult thing to capture unless you are in the room with these instruments. And the fact that we had this audience of, let's say, 40 people meant that all forty of these people were experiencing these beat frequencies and another really cool factor of this is depending on where you are located in the room. With the way that the beats will sound in your ears are different and purely by the fact of acoustics like a wave bouncing off of the wall over on your left, will feel really different if you are closer or further from that wall. So not only do the audiences ears themselves, you know, invite these this this participation, but the pure physicality of each listener means that they will have a very slightly different experience of what the piece is, and again like this will happen in any concert. If you're at a classical show, if you're at a rock show if, if you're further from the stage, if you're further to the left or right, you will get a slightly different position in the stereo field that the musicians are playing in, but pieces like what I wrote and many others that exist emphasize this kind of like acoustic phenomena. That is really, really fascinating to listen to. 00:12:23 Isabel Li That's fascinating. And to get a sense of Richard's work, we'll be hearing coming up next. The short excerpt from his album Sonatrinas. This is the duo excerpt performed by Wells Leng, Katie Aikam, Kevin Good and composer Richard An himself. [COMP MUSIC: Sonatrinas (Excerpt: Duo)] 00:17:38 Richard An And so the back story for this piece is this was written for one of my recitals at CalArts. I was planning on playing this piece by Michael Gordon called Sonatra, which is a really, really beautiful and difficult piece for solo piano that I gave myself as an assignment, which I was not able to do with the amount of time. And, you know, like I just didn't give myself enough time to do this thing, so I still had this program of several pieces written with the idea of having this Michael Gordon Sonatra in the middle, but now that that sort of middle part was gone, there was a bunch of pieces about a piece that didn't exist. So in order to fill that hole, I wrote this piece called Sonatrinas which is a cheeky nod to the Michael Gordon Sonatra, but also to the fact that each part of this is kind of a diminutive Sonata form. Everything has a sort of ABA– here's some idea. Here's a different idea, and now we go back to that first idea. Every single part of this has a little bit of that in it. 00:18:51 Isabel Li Yeah, that's fascinating. Even the name itself reminds me of Sonata form in classical music, where it's kind of like an ABA section. As you sort of talked about earlier. And it's really cool that you're adapting this in a more avant-garde context. This is a reminder you're listening to Apex Express. Today we are interviewing composer and musician Richard An. 00:19:12 Isabel Li I think the general question that I have next is can you tell me a bit about what drew you to music and how you got your start in music, how you got introduced to it and what things have inspired you over the years? 00:19:24 Richard An Yeah. So a real quick sort of, I guess, history of my involvement with music is that I started piano lessons when I was pretty young, either three or four years old. I continued that until I was 12 or 13. I decided I really wanted to become a musician. I started taking composition lessons with this composer, AJ McCaffrey, who is really responsible for a lot of what I know and my successes, if you can call it that. He got me into a lot of the music that I am into now and set the foundation for what I would study and what I would write he was one of the instructors for this program called the LA Phil Composer Fellowship program, which back when I was a participant from 2011 to 2013, was a program hosted by the Los Angeles Philharmonic that took 4 high school age students every two years. And you know, they they taught us, you know, everything. How a young composer needs to know how instruments work, how to write a score, how to talk to musicians, how to do everything that a that a composer needs to learn how to do and at the end of this program, after the two years the young composers write a piece for the at the LA Philharmonic. So I was extremely lucky that by the age of 17 I was able to write a piece for orchestra and get that played and not just any orchestra, with the Los Angeles Philharmonic, you know, undisputedly one of the best orchestras in the world. Right. And then after that I I went to USC for my undergrad and then went to CalArts for my masters. And then here we are now. And that those are sort of the like, you know if someone writes a biography about me, that's what we'll be, you know, involved in the thing. But I really started to develop my love for music in my freshman and sophomore year. In high school I I started to get into more and more modern composers. I started to get into more and more noisy things and a lot of this coincided actually with the passing of my mother. She died when I was 14 and you know that in any human the death of a parent will cause you to reevaluate and rethink aspects of your life. Things that you thought were certainties will not be there anymore. So for me, I stopped taking piano lessons and I sort of went headfirst into composition and which is why my degrees are specifically in composition and not piano. Had my mother's passing not happened, you know, who knows what I would be doing now? Maybe I'm not a composer at all. Maybe I'm not into avant-garde music at all, but because things happen the way that they did, I suddenly took a quick turn into avant-garde music and my involvement there only grew more and more and more. Until you know where I am today, I'm almost 30 years old, so I've been listening to and a participant of this music for maybe 15 years or so and I'm quite happy. 00:22:43 Isabel Li That's awesome to hear. 00:22:45 Isabel Li And perhaps a testament to Richard one's very versatile compositional style and avant-garde music coming up next are three pieces from his album i got the electroshock blues. There are five pieces in the album in total, but we will be hearing three of them. The first one called “feeling, scared today,” the second one, “pink pill,” and the fifth one, “la la.” [COMP MUSIC: i got the electroshock blues: 1. “feeling, scared today”, 2. “pink pill”, 3. “la la”.] 00:36:41 Richard An Earlier last year, I released a collection of live recordings under the title of I got the Electroshock Blues. Electroshock Blues is a song by the band Eels I encountered at a pivotal moment in my life. This was right around the time that my mother passed and this record and this song is heavily centered in grief. The main musician in the Eels, Mark Oliver Everett, was dealing with the passing of multiple family members and people who were close to him so it hit me in just the right way at just the right time. And because of that, this song specifically has stayed with me for many, many years. I found myself coming back to the contents of this song as I was composing and all the pieces on this album, of which there are 5 heavily take material from this song, whether that's words, chords, the melody. I really, you know, take it apart, dissect it and use those as ingredients in the pieces that I have written here and all of these are live recordings except for the first piece which was recorded in my studio. I just sort of overdubbed the parts myself, and there are credits in the liner notes for this album, but I just want to say that. The first piece which is called “feeling, scared today,” was originally written for the Hockett piano duo, which is a duo comprised of Thomas Kotcheff and Sarah Gibson. Sarah Gibson was a really close friend of mine who passed away last year and now this piece which in some way came out of a feeling of grief now has renewed meaning and another facet or aspect of this piece is centered in grief now. Because this was dedicated to Thomas and Sarah. Yeah. So these pieces are all derived from this one song. 00:38:57 Isabel Li That's a beautiful response. Thank you so much. Kind of following along your background and how you got to where you are. How do you think your identity has informed your work as a composer and musician? And this could be– you can interpret this in any way that you wish. 00:39:11 Richard An Yeah, this is a really interesting question. The question of how my identity interfaces with my music. In my art, particularly because no person's answer is quite the same, and I don't necessarily have this figured out either. So for a little bit of I guess for a little bit of context on me, I'm second generation Korean American, but I've never been to Korea and I never went to Korean school. My parents never really emphasize that part of my education. You could call it assimilation. You can call it whatever, but I think they valued other aspects of my growth than my explicit tie to Koreanness or, you know my specific identity as a Korean or Korean American, and because of that, I've always felt a little bit awkwardly distanced from that part of my identity, which is something that I will never be completely rid of. So in in a world and the field where whiteness is sort of the default part you know, particularly because you know, classical music does come from Europe, you know, for hundreds of years, like all of the development in this particular kind of music did happen in a place where everyone was white. So because of that background of where I come from and where my musical activity comes from, whiteness has been the default and still feels like it is. So me looking the way that I do as, an obvious not white person, as a person of color will always have a little bit of an outsider status to the thing. And with that comes the question of what are you bringing to classical music? What do you bring to the kind of music that you're creating? Like for example, the most I think the most well known East Asian composers are people like Toru Takemitsu or Tan Dun, people who will interface with their Asianness, in many different ways, but that often involves bringing, for example, a Japanese scale into your classical composition, or bringing a Japanese instrument into your classical composition. Those are, you know, examples of of of pieces by Toru Takemitsu, and other, you know, very successful. Asian American composers now may do similarly. Texu Kim is maybe someone who can also give insight into this, but nothing about me feels explicitly Korean, maybe besides the way that I look. And besides, the way that I grew up a little bit like I've never been to Korea. What right does that give me as a Korean, to for example, use a Korean instrument or use a Korean scale? I've never studied that music. I've never studied that culture. I in in some arguments I would be guilty of cultural appropriation, because I, you know, have not done the work to study and to properly represent. And for example, like Pansori, if I were to use that in any of my music. 00:42:46 Richard An But then the the the difficult question is well, then who does have the right? Does being Korean give me all the license that I need to incorporate aspects of my identity? And if I am not Korean, does that, does that bar my access to that kind of music forever? Another way of looking at this is, I've studied North Indian Classical Hindustani music for a while. I've played tabla and and studied that music at CalArts and I really, really love playing tabla. It's it doesn't make its way into my composition so much, but it is certainly a big part of my musicianship and who I am and, like, but am I barred from using ideas or aspects of that music and culture and my music because simply for the fact that I am not Indian? Many musicians would say no. Of course you've done your homework, you've done your research. You're doing due diligence. You're you're representing it properly. And many people who study this music will say music cannot go forward if it's not like the innervated and continued and studied by people like me who are not explicitly South Asian or Indian. That's an example of the flip side of this of me using or representing the music from a culture that I am not a part of, but again, am I really Korean? I've never been there. I wasn't born there. I speak the language conversationally. But this is an extremely long winded way of saying that I feel a tenuous connection to my Korean this my Korean American identity that hasn't been solved, that isn't solved and probably will never be completely solved. But I think that's exciting. I think that's an evolving aspect of my music and will continue to be that way as long as I continue to be involved in music and as as long as I continue to write. 00:45:05 Isabel Li Yeah, absolutely. That's a wonderful response. Actually. I was, as I was studying different types of world music and learning how people kind of borrow from different cultures. There is this always, this kind of question like ohh, like which types of musical elements from which cultures can I incorporate and obviously the aspects of personal identity definitely play into that a little bit. And part of my senior thesis in college was studying AAPI artists in classical music, and specifically that there are a lot of Asian-identifying musicians in the classical music world. But as you kind of mentioned earlier, I think classical music is very much still like grounded in whiteness and has this kind of air of elitism to it just because of its roots. How do you think this kind of identity intersects with the classical music world? And forgive me if you've already kind of talked about it before, but it's an interesting juxtaposition between like, for example, musicians who identify as AAPI or Asian in this kind of genre that is very– it's very associated with whiteness. Could you kind of talk about the dynamics of how these two aspects of like culture kind of interplay with one another? 00:46:26 Richard An Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there are ways that I personally feel like I intersect with classical music with reference to my identity, and that also plays with the sort of cultural expectations, like there are stereotypes of Asian musicians, of Asian classical musicians. But there are not necessarily the same the same kind of stereotypes with white classical musicians. A very dominant like stereotype that you'll run into is the young Asian prodigy who practices 10 hours a day and may therefore be labeled as mechanical or unfeeling or, you know, are involved in in this a lot. So much so to the fact to the to the point where to excel an Asian American classical musician or as an Asian classical musician, in general, seems to always carry that stereotype. Like you know, Seong-Jin Cho's success as a pianist may not necessarily be attributed to his musicianship or his skill as a pianist. Because he is an Asian person, an Asian guy. Like how much of his success is because of the perceived tiger mom-ness that he might have existed under? How much of it is attributed to the same type of stereotypes that are labeled like that that label the five year old pianist on YouTube that that is clearly better than I am? Like some of these stereotypes help and some of these don't, but the I think it's undeniable that they exist in a way that doesn't in a way that doesn't carry for white people in the classical music sphere. And I think part of that is that classical music is still rooted in its Eurological identity. I think I'm using that correctly. That's an idea from George Lewis. Eurological versus Afrological. The context that I'm using Eurological right now is specifically in reference to George Lewis, who is a composer, trombonist, and musicologist who, I think coined the two terms to differentiate the roots of different styles of music, and you know, I haven't read enough to confidently say, but classical music is Eurological by example and like jazz would be Afrological by an example and the contexts in which they develop and exist and grew up are fundamentally different, which is what makes them different from each other. And again like this needs a little bit more research on my part. 00:49:23 Richard An Yeah, and because the classical music is so rooted in this thing, I don't believe that the stereotypes that exist for Asian classical musicians exist for white people. And I think that is something that will naturally dissipate with time, like after another 100 years of Asians, and, you know, people of color in, you know, every country in the world, with their continued involvement and innova otypes will disappear like this. You know, it may require certain concerted efforts from certain people, but I do believe that after a while these things will not exist. They'll sort of equalize right in the same way. That the divisions that we make between a Russian pianist and a French pianist and a German pianist, though you know people still do study those things like those aren't really dividing lines quite as strong as an Asian composer or an Indian composer might be. 00:50:27 Isabel Li Thank you for that perspective. I think it's, I think these are conversations that people don't kind of bring up as much in the classical music world and it's great that, you know, we're kind of thinking about these and probably possibly like opening some conversations up to our listeners hopefully. And so my next kind of pivot here is as you know with our current administration, Trump has canceled millions of dollars in National Endowment of the Arts grants, and it's been affecting arts organizations all over the nation. And I was kind of wondering, have you been affected by these cuts to arts programs and what kinds of advice would give upcoming musicians or composers in this era? 00:51:07 Richard An Yeah, that's a yeah, that's a big thing. And like, you know, changing day by day, right. So the Trump administration's effects on my life as a musician is simultaneously huge and also not really that much. So in one way these grant cuts have not affected my personal musical life because I haven't ever received a government grant for any of my arts making. So in one way like my life is the same, but in many, many, many other ways it has changed. Like I am involved with and I work with concert series and organizations and nonprofits that do rely on NEA funding and other government arts based funding. And if they have less money to fund their next season, that means certain projects have to be cut. That means certain musicians have to be paid less. That means certain programs have to change, especially if these funding cuts are aimed towards DEI or quote and quote, woke programming like that is, you know this that will by design disproportionately affect people of color in this field, which already you know, like is in a Eurocentric urological tradition like this is already something that people of color don't have a head start in if the funding cuts are aimed at certain types of programming that will disadvantage already disadvantaged groups of people, well then I don't know, that's even–we're starting even later than other people might be, and you know, like, if a musicians, if a person's reaction to this is despair, I think that's reasonable. I think that is an absolutely, like that's an appropriate reaction to what is fundamentally an attack on your voice as an artist. But I I have for as long as I can, you know, I have always worked under the impression that I will have to do the thing myself, and that's in the piece of advice that I give for a lot of people. You shouldn't necessarily wait for this ensemble to come pick you to play or or to to, you know, commission you to write a piece if you want to write the piece, you should do it and figure out how to put it on yourself. If you want to perform you know music by a certain composer, you should do it and then figure out how to do it yourself. That certainly comes from a place of privilege, like I can do this because I have enough work as a musician to be able to pay for the the passion projects it comes from a place of privilege, because I live in Los Angeles and the resources and musicians and other people who I would like to collaborate with live here, so you know, completely acknowledging and understanding that I I do believe that it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. I think if you're a young musician and are feeling some despair about these funding cuts and you know the many, many, many other transgressions against humanity by this current administration. 00:54:38 Richard An I recommend you just go out and do it yourself. You find your people, you find your community, you pull favors, you work long nights and you do it and the reward will firstly be the good you're putting out into the world and then the the art you're making. But also this will be paid in kind by the community you're building, the musicians you're working with. And the the connections you make like you know I I have, I am currently conducting this interview from a studio space that I am renting out in Pasadena that I have built over the last two years that I do all of my rehearsals and my performances in, and that I, you know, host rehearsals and performances for other people, and this cannot happen and could not have happened without the goodwill and help and contribution from other people. When I say go out and do it yourself, I'm not saying that you as a human being are alone. I'm saying you don't need to wait for institutional approval or permission to go out and do these things. Get your friends and do them themselves. And my optimistic belief is that the support and the work will follow. 00:55:53 Isabel Li Richard, thank you so much for sharing your perspectives and your voice on this show today. And thank you to our many listeners of KPFA on tonight's episode of Obbligato on Apex Express. Which focuses on the AAPI community of the classical music world. There were some inspirational words on arts and arts making by Richard An musician and composer based in Los Angeles. 00:56:18 Isabel Li Please check our website kpfa.org to find out more about Richard An and his work as well as the state of the arts during this period of funding cuts. 00:56:29 Isabel Li We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world, your voices and your art are important. 00:56:41 Isabel Li APEX Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by Isabel Li. Have a great evening. The post APEX Express – 8.7.25 – Obbligato with Richard An appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – July 31, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

From coral reefs and mangroves to raising the land itself, how small island nations are using natural and innovative techniques to adapt to rising sea levels and extreme weather events linked to climate change. Jordan Dunbar chats to Tina Stege, climate envoy for the Republic of the Marshall Islands, and Dr. Rosanne Martyr, senior scientist on coastal vulnerability and adaptation, Climate Analytics. Plus, Anna Holligan, the BBC's correspondent in The Hague, has the latest on a landmark climate case brought by Pacific Islanders at the International Court of Justice.Got a comment or a question you'd like us to answer? Send an email to: TheClimateQuestion@bbc.com or whatsapp us on +44 8000 321 721 Presenter: Jordan Dunbar Producer: Diane Richardson Production Co-Ordinator: Brenda Brown Sound Engineers: Tom Brignell, Rohan Madison and Frank McWeeny Editor: Simon Watts

Story of the Week (DR): Astronomer HR chief Kristin Cabot resigns following Coldplay ‘kiss cam' incident MMAstronomer's human resources chief Kristin Cabot has resigned from the company following an affair that was caught on camera at a Coldplay concert.The intimate moment between Cabot and CEO Andy Byron went viral on the internet after the two hid when Coldplay's lead singer called them out during the concert.Both Byron and Chabot have now resigned from Astronomer and have been removed from the company's leadership team webpage.They did it! Zero women! 10 execs/ 5 directorsTrump's order to block 'woke' AI in government encourages tech giants to censor their chatbotsTech companies looking to sell their artificial intelligence technology to the federal government must now contend with a new regulatory hurdle: prove their chatbots aren't “woke.”President Donald Trump's sweeping new plan to counter China in achieving “global dominance” in AI promises to cut regulations and cement American values into the AI tools increasingly used at work and home. But one of Trump's three AI executive orders signed Wednesday — the one “preventing woke AI in the federal government” — marks the first time the U.S. government has explicitly tried to shape the ideological behavior of AI.The move also pushes the tech industry to abandon years of work to combat the pervasive forms of racial and gender bias that studies and real-world examples have shown to be baked into AI systems.OpenAI's Sam Altman warns of AI voice fraud crisis in bankingOpenAI CEO Sam Altman warned the financial industry of a “significant impending fraud crisis” because of the ability of artificial intelligence tools to impersonate a person's voice to bypass security checks and move money.“A thing that terrifies me is apparently there are still some financial institutions that will accept the voiceprint as authentication,” Altman said. “That is a crazy thing to still be doing. AI has fully defeated that.”Uber will let women drivers and riders request to avoid being paired with men starting next month Goodliest of the Week (MM/DR): DR: Top U.N. Court Says Countries Must Act on Climate ChangeThe International Court of Justice, the United Nations' top court, issued an advisory opinion Wednesday that found all nations must tackle climate change and those that do not act could be obliged to pay reparations for the harm caused to the environment.The ruling was the result of years of efforts by activists and small island nations. The case was first initiated by Pacific Islands Students Fighting Climate Change, a group of young Pacific Islanders facing the existential threat of rising sea levels, and led by the island nation of Vanuatu.MM: Glass Lewis sues Texas over new ESG and DEI limits on proxy advisersGlass Lewis is my new heroISS too Assholiest of the Week (MM): FCC approves $8 billion Paramount-Skydance mergerParamount agrees to pay $16 million to settle Trump's CBS lawsuitSuit was filed because Trump didn't like the editing on a Kamala interviewSenators Investigate Whether David Ellison Cut Side Deal With Trump After $16 Million Paramount SettlementSam Altman and the “you should be worried about the thing I built” manbaby tech bro ethosSam Altman is terrified about a coming AI fraud crisisSam Altman is worried some young people have an 'emotional over-reliance' on ChatGPT when making decisionsTrump's ‘anti-woke AI' order could reshape how US tech companies train their modelsWhen running AI giant OpenAI becomes too overwhelming Sam Altman turns to pen and paper—it's a habit shared by Bill Gates and Richard BransonMicrosoft's Satya Nadella says job cuts have been 'weighing heavily' on him DRSatya Nadella on the ‘enigma of success' in the age of AI: a thriving business, but 15,000+ layoffs“Before anything else, I want to speak to what's been weighing heavily on me, and what I know many of you are thinking about: the recent job eliminations. These decisions are among the most difficult we have to make. They affect people we've worked alongside, learned from, and shared countless moments with—our colleagues, teammates, and friends. I want to express my sincere gratitude to those who have left.”“I also want to acknowledge the uncertainty and seeming incongruence of the times we're in. By every objective measure, Microsoft is thriving—our market performance, strategic positioning, and growth all point up and to the right.”And yet, at the same time, we've undergone layoffs. This is the enigma of success…DistractionsElon Musk's Tesla Is Now the Most Hated Electric Vehicle MakerElon Musk Tells Tesla Investors to Focus on a Future Filled With RobotsElon Musk Warns That Tesla Board Could Fire Him "If I Go Crazy"EpsteinTrump's order to make chatbots anti-woke is unconstitutional, senator saysMeme stocksBeyond Meat? Krispy Kreme? Opendoor? American Eagle? Headliniest of the Week DR: Elon Musk wants more control of Tesla so activist investors can't boot him—but not so much the board can't fire him if he goes ‘crazy'MM: The typical employee would have had to start working before the Revolutionary War to match average CEO's 2024 pay Who Won the Week? DR: Satya Nadella's bullshit (More than 15,000 positions—about 7% of the company's global workforce—have been eliminated since January; $79M 2024 pay/408:1 CEO pay ratio):“By every objective measure, Microsoft is thriving—our market performance, strategic positioning, and growth all point up and to the right” he wrote, noting the company's capital expenditures, largely fueled by investments in AI and cloud infrastructure, are at historic highs. Despite these investments, he said headcount “is relatively unchanged,” given the simultaneous reduction of jobs.Nadella called this tension the “enigma of success in an industry that has no franchise value,” arguing that success in tech is not permanent or evenly distributed. “Progress isn't linear. It's dynamic, sometimes dissonant, and always demanding. But it's also a new opportunity for us to shape, lead through, and have greater impact than ever before.”Expressing gratitude to those let go, Nadella acknowledged the human cost. “Their contributions have shaped who we are as a company, helping build the foundation we stand on today. And for that, I am deeply grateful.”MM: People who pay CEOs - The gap between CEO and worker pay keeps increasing—and Trump's policies are making it grow faster - and according to our analysis, directors on the pay committee have zero repercussions for overpaying. 11% of shareholder votes were less than 90% in favor of pay, but greater than 90% in favor of directors who set pay (in 2%, it was less than 75% for pay and greater than 90% for directors) Predictions DR: Satya Nadella divorces his wife and tells her he is “deeply grateful” but this is the “enigma of love”MM: Someone in MAGA realizes that they don't need to look for documents released related to Jeffrey Epstein to find connections between Trump and sex traffickers since he actually hired a former CEO of a sex trafficking ring, Linda MacMahon, to run the Education Department and the whole White House has been WWE-ified

The AP's Jennifer King reports on a new poll on Asian and Pacific Islander's views on President Trump.

Dreams in Migrations: AAPI Identity, Diaspora, and Resistance in Contemporary Art In this special live episode of What's My Thesis?, host Javier Proenza moderates a closing panel discussion at BG Gallery for Dreams in Migrations—the third annual AAPI (Asian American and Pacific Islander) exhibition curated by artist and organizer Sung-Hee Son. This timely conversation assembles a multigenerational roster of artists whose practices interrogate identity, memory, imperialism, and the myth of the model minority through distinct formal languages and lived experiences. Featuring artists Dave Young Kim, Mei Xian Qiu, and others, the episode moves fluidly between personal narrative and structural critique. Kim speaks candidly about growing up Korean American in Los Angeles, navigating ADHD through drawing, and finding community through both art and street culture. He reflects on his work's deep connection to place—evoking the layered histories of Koreatown through archival images, signage, and symbolic compositions. Mei Xian Qiu offers a moving account of displacement, spiritual ritual, and postcolonial trauma. Born into Indonesia's Chinese diaspora, she discusses her early artistic impulse to create “sacred objects” as a means of processing survival and systemic erasure. Her multimedia works—reminiscent of stained glass and batik—expose the mechanisms of propaganda and the cultural inheritance of violence. Her series Let a Thousand Flowers Bloom revisits China's Hundred Flowers Campaign with a provocative inversion: a mock invasion of the U.S. staged entirely by AAPI artists and academics. Together, the panelists explore diasporic kinship, cross-cultural solidarity, and the politics of visibility within the art world. Proenza draws compelling parallels between the AAPI and Latinx experiences, from forced assimilation and linguistic loss to state violence and Cold War geopolitics. The conversation challenges the flattening effects of labels like “model minority,” advocating instead for nuance, specificity, and coalition-building. The episode concludes with reflections on the power of artist collectives, including the Korean American Artists Collective co-founded by Kim, and a roll call of exhibiting artists whose works are transforming the gallery into a space of resistance, celebration, and shared memory. Featured Artists in the Exhibition: Dave Young Kim Mei Xian Qiu Bryan Ida Tia (Otis MFA ‘23) Miki Yokoyama Key Topics: AAPI identity in fine art Postcolonial trauma and Chinese-Indonesian history Korean American experience in L.A. Propaganda, memory, and resistance The myth of the model minority Artist collectives and community organizing Explore how contemporary AAPI artists are reshaping cultural narratives and reclaiming space through radical aesthetics and collaborative practice.

In Voyagers: The Settlement of the Pacific (Apollo, 2020), the distinguished anthropologist Nicholas Thomas tells the story of the peopling of the Pacific. In clear, accessible language Thomas shows us that most Pacific Islanders are in fact 'inter-islanders', or people defined by their movement across the ocean and between islands, rather than 'trapped' in islands in a far sea. Thomas also described the European discovery of the Pacific, and emphasizes the role Pacific Islanders played in teaching European explorers about the Pacific. 'European' knowledge of the Pacific, Thomas claims, was very much 'intercultural' and relied on indigenous Pacific knowledge of the region. In this episode of the podcast, Nick sits down with Alex Golub to discuss his book and the history of the Pacific. They talk about the influence of Epeli Hau‘ofa's writings on Nick's concept of 'inter-islanders' and discuss the complexities of intercultural contact in the nineteenth century Pacific which are exemplified by 'Tupaia's Chart' -- the map made for Captain Cook by Tupaia, the Tahitian navigator who led Cook to Aotearoa/New Zealand. Overall, Voyagers is an excellent introduction to Pacific history which can be read by anyone with an interest in the Pacific. Associate professor of anthropology, University of Hawai‘i at Mānoa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

In Voyagers: The Settlement of the Pacific (Apollo, 2020), the distinguished anthropologist Nicholas Thomas tells the story of the peopling of the Pacific. In clear, accessible language Thomas shows us that most Pacific Islanders are in fact 'inter-islanders', or people defined by their movement across the ocean and between islands, rather than 'trapped' in islands in a far sea. Thomas also described the European discovery of the Pacific, and emphasizes the role Pacific Islanders played in teaching European explorers about the Pacific. 'European' knowledge of the Pacific, Thomas claims, was very much 'intercultural' and relied on indigenous Pacific knowledge of the region. In this episode of the podcast, Nick sits down with Alex Golub to discuss his book and the history of the Pacific. They talk about the influence of Epeli Hau‘ofa's writings on Nick's concept of 'inter-islanders' and discuss the complexities of intercultural contact in the nineteenth century Pacific which are exemplified by 'Tupaia's Chart' -- the map made for Captain Cook by Tupaia, the Tahitian navigator who led Cook to Aotearoa/New Zealand. Overall, Voyagers is an excellent introduction to Pacific history which can be read by anyone with an interest in the Pacific. Associate professor of anthropology, University of Hawai‘i at Mānoa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In Voyagers: The Settlement of the Pacific (Apollo, 2020), the distinguished anthropologist Nicholas Thomas tells the story of the peopling of the Pacific. In clear, accessible language Thomas shows us that most Pacific Islanders are in fact 'inter-islanders', or people defined by their movement across the ocean and between islands, rather than 'trapped' in islands in a far sea. Thomas also described the European discovery of the Pacific, and emphasizes the role Pacific Islanders played in teaching European explorers about the Pacific. 'European' knowledge of the Pacific, Thomas claims, was very much 'intercultural' and relied on indigenous Pacific knowledge of the region. In this episode of the podcast, Nick sits down with Alex Golub to discuss his book and the history of the Pacific. They talk about the influence of Epeli Hau‘ofa's writings on Nick's concept of 'inter-islanders' and discuss the complexities of intercultural contact in the nineteenth century Pacific which are exemplified by 'Tupaia's Chart' -- the map made for Captain Cook by Tupaia, the Tahitian navigator who led Cook to Aotearoa/New Zealand. Overall, Voyagers is an excellent introduction to Pacific history which can be read by anyone with an interest in the Pacific. Associate professor of anthropology, University of Hawai‘i at Mānoa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/world-affairs

In Voyagers: The Settlement of the Pacific (Apollo, 2020), the distinguished anthropologist Nicholas Thomas tells the story of the peopling of the Pacific. In clear, accessible language Thomas shows us that most Pacific Islanders are in fact 'inter-islanders', or people defined by their movement across the ocean and between islands, rather than 'trapped' in islands in a far sea. Thomas also described the European discovery of the Pacific, and emphasizes the role Pacific Islanders played in teaching European explorers about the Pacific. 'European' knowledge of the Pacific, Thomas claims, was very much 'intercultural' and relied on indigenous Pacific knowledge of the region. In this episode of the podcast, Nick sits down with Alex Golub to discuss his book and the history of the Pacific. They talk about the influence of Epeli Hau‘ofa's writings on Nick's concept of 'inter-islanders' and discuss the complexities of intercultural contact in the nineteenth century Pacific which are exemplified by 'Tupaia's Chart' -- the map made for Captain Cook by Tupaia, the Tahitian navigator who led Cook to Aotearoa/New Zealand. Overall, Voyagers is an excellent introduction to Pacific history which can be read by anyone with an interest in the Pacific. Associate professor of anthropology, University of Hawai‘i at Mānoa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Resources: Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram | Learn about the Disappearances of Bhutanese American refugees: Website | Toolkit Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Lavender Phoenix: Website | Instagram Minjoona Music: Instagram   Transcript: Cheryl (Host): Good evening. You're tuned in to Apex Express. I'm your host, Cheryl, and tonight we're diving into the vibrant summer programming happening across the AACRE network. That's the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network. AACRE is made up of 11 Asian American social justice organizations working together to build collective power and create lasting movements .  Throughout tonight's show, we'll be spotlighting a few of these groups [00:01:00] and the incredible work they're leading this summer. First up, we're joined by Pratik from Asian refugees United Pratik. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself and to kick things off in the spirit of tonight's show, maybe share what's something that's been bringing you joy this summer? Pratik (ARU): Hello, namaste everyone. My name is Pratik Chhetri. He, him. I'm the program manager at ARU, Asian Refugees United in Pennsylvania. I'm originally from Nepal. I grew up in Nepal. I am an immigrant, came to the for college long time ago. And I've been working in social justice, health justice field for over 15 years now. Initially it was mostly around advocacy policy relating to access to medicines, issues, especially in lower and middle income countries, and the past six, seven. More than seven [00:02:00] years. I also started an organization, a nonprofit organization in Nepal, that works at the intersection of social, economic and climate justice. And with ARU, I got introduced to ARU back in 2020. So by that time I had some skills that I felt I could bring to the community. Even though I'm not from Bhutanese refugee community, I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent. So I felt with the linguistic skill I could be of some help. I think right around that time COVID happened, everything and end of 2021 is when I reconnected with Robin and started talking about possibilities. For about two years, I was part of the CAMP for Emerging Leaders, the leadership program ARU has, and [00:03:00] starting last year, early this year formally, I am a staff, for ARU. I'm in charge of programs under wellness, education, and civic engagement largely but depending on time and resources, I become available for other programs as well. It's a joy working with ARU. I was just telling Cheryl earlier that it doesn't feel like work ‘ cause I enjoy it, working with people, getting to work on impactful programs, and being a part of an organization that has so much potential, so much responsibility, but also trying to find new ways to become, useful for the community. That's very exciting. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): That's great. I'm glad that your work is what's bringing you joy this summer. That's so special. And before we get into some of that impactful programming that you've been running this summer, could you [00:04:00] tell us a little bit about, ARU, Asian Refugees United  Pratik (ARU): Sure. ARU started back in 2016 in California and back then all of the programs used to be in California. The community that ARU serves since then, and even to this day are Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community and Vietnamese community, Korean and other Pan-Asian community. After the pandemic, there has been a lot of secondary migration of the Bhutanese folks from across the United States to two major locations. One being central PA around Harrisburg area and Pennsylvania, and the second one around Columbus, Ohio, and other major cities in Ohio. The secondary migration mostly to Pennsylvania triggered a, shifting of ARU programs, to Pennsylvania as well in addition to [00:05:00] California. So at this point in 2025, the Pennsylvania side of ARU caters to the Nepali speaking Bhutanese folks. And the California side of ARU works with Vietnamese, Korean, and other Asian communities. I work with the Pennsylvania, ARU, and here we have four different pillars around health and wellness, education, art and storytelling. And the fourth one is civic engagement, and that is the newest one. I can talk about programs under each of the pillars but for summer the programs that is bringing me joy, not only for me, but also ARU's staffs is this longitudinal five month long leadership program called Camp for Emerging Leaders, where we recruit Nepali speaking folks from all across United States, and they go through virtual sessions every other [00:06:00] week on, history to the story of displacement, intergenerational trauma. How it started, how it used to be back in Bhutan, how it used to be in the refugee camps in Nepal, and now how it is in the US and Canada, wherever they are. So end of summer, end of July, early August is when all of those cohort members, the youth leaders will come physically to Harrisburg and we'll spend a few days here connecting with each other, building that trust, but also working together to build projects for the community, addressing community challenges that's happening. And for that I think five or six of the ARU staff from California are also coming. We have guest speakers. I think one of them is coming from all the way from Australia. It's fun. Largely I think [00:07:00] I'm looking forward to meeting with all of these youth leaders who have so much potential to do, so much good, not only for Bhutanese community, Nepali speaking, south Asian community, but also, their potential goes beyond that, yeah.  Cheryl (Host): It is powerful to hear how ARU's work has evolved and now spans across the nation, and also how Camp for Emerging Leaders is creating space for Nepali speaking Bhutanese youth to reflect their community's history, build deep connections, and grow as leaders. You mentioned that during the summer youth leaders gather in Harrisburg to create community projects. Could you share more about what kinds of projects they're working on and what kind of issues they're hoping to address? Pratik (ARU): For education, one of the main ones that we just concluded is, so we started high school success program called First Step Forward. And the interesting thing, the exciting thing about this program [00:08:00] is the concept of First Step forward from one of the Camp for Emerging Leaders cohort from two years ago. And similarly so that's how most of ARU programs have been. The ARU Youth Center, the ARU Office, that concept also started from the camp for emerging leaders. There are a couple other programs ARU does. Youth Wellness Day. That started from the camp as well. For the First Step Forward, what we do is early winter of, I think January or February we accepted a cohort of 10. These were high school juniors and seniors, and largely the purpose of the program is to make sure that they are well equipped for college and for any other professional avenues they end up going even if higher education is not for them. We did a lot of like leadership sessions, public speaking [00:09:00] sessions, like how to write essays, how to apply for different scholarships. We just concluded it literally last Saturday, we went hiking and went to one of the Six Flags amusement parks. But learning from that program, we are scaling it up. We're taking 20 people next year, and we will do it a year long cohort. So starting from September up until May, June. We'll integrate college tours, not only for the kids, but also for their family because in Bhutanese community and Nepali speaking folks a lot of the times the parents do not understand how the system works, even with their best intent and best intention. So along with the students, it is very important for us to work with the family, the parents as much as possible to take them through the process, right? On education, we also do a lot of cultural navigation training to [00:10:00] different county level and different governance agencies. Some of the cultural navigation trainings that we did in the past year that I can think of is we did one for the. Panel of judges from Dauphin County, which is where Harrisburg is. We did similar thing for different school districts in Dauphin and Cumberland County, different nearby counties for juvenile probation unit, child and youth services. And while we do that, as an organization, it gave us a better sense of where the gaps are, especially for parents to run into difficulties. 'cause a lot of times, for example, if a kid is sent home with a sheet of paper, even when it's bilingual, because their movement happened from Nepal to Bhutan, such a long time ago, a lot of the folks in the community speak the language but do not understand how to read or write the [00:11:00] language. So there are double language barrier, right? When a kid is called into a meeting or a disciplinary meeting, the parents a lot of times don't even look at the sheet of paper or don't know where to show up or how to show up or what to expect. Based on those things we're using that knowledge and experience to design further programs in the future. That's just for education. With civic engagement, for example, this 2024 cycle was the first election for our community members to vote in their lifetime. Back in Bhutan they didn't have that opportunity and then they spent decades in refugee camps, and it took most of them some time to get the green cards and five years after Green card to secure their citizenship. So we saw a lot of even elderly folks show up to voting. That was their first time that they were voting. And when that happens, it's not [00:12:00] just generic voter education. It's teaching the community how to register, where to register, where to show up at the precincts. A lot of precincts we were seeing, 30 to 40% of the folks show up to the wrong precincts. So there's a lot of need, but also in 2024 we saw, unfortunately, a lot of folks fall victim to misinformation and disinformation. So there's that need to do something about that part as well in the future. One of the things we started doing under civic engagement work is not just teach folks where to register, how to register on voter education, but also preparing some of the community members to run for office.  Two or three weeks ago, mid-June, we did our first round of run for office training. We partner up with another organization called Lead PA. And even for the folks who showed up, all of us [00:13:00] are politically inclined, educated to a certain extent, and a lot of the things that were shared in that training, it was mostly new to us, especially around local government. Like what are the positions that they are and how so many important positions, people run unopposed and what kind of ramifications that might have for our daily lives. Right. Starting 2026 election cycle, we're hoping some of our trainees run for office as well, starting from school board to all the way, wherever they want to. And there are wellness focused events, youth wellness Day that I talked about, around mental health is one of the great needs for the community. One piece of data might be very important to mention, based on CDCs 20 12 data, there was a report out, the research was conducted in 2012, and the report came out in 2014, basically what it said [00:14:00] was, Bhutanese folks in the US have the highest of suicide in the whole nation, and that's something that has not received a lot of attention or resources because generally those numbers get mixed up with generic Asian data and the numbers get diluted. Right. So one of the things, what, as an organization, what we are trying to do is bring awareness to that number. And the other thing is like, it's been over 10 years since that study happened and there has not been a follow-up study. What we are seeing is previously how mental health and it's ramifications how it was affecting the community, it was mostly about 10 years ago, mostly affecting older folks. Now we are seeing a lot of younger folks commit suicide or suicidal attempts. So there is a lot of work in that respect as [00:15:00] well. These are also some of the very crucial topics to work on. But as an organization, we are taking baby steps toward being able to efficiently address the community needs. I missed some of them, but overall, our organizational goal is to empower the community in one way or the other. And one of the tools that we use is focusing on youths because youths in the community, similar to other immigrant communities, our youths are mostly bilingual, bicultural, and many times they're the translators and system navigators for their whole family. And in many cases their extended family as well. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. There are so many layers to the work that you all do. From developing leaders to run for office, to supporting mental health, to helping folks navigate voting and helping folks access higher education or career pathways.[00:16:00]  That's such a wide scope, and I imagine it takes a lot to hold all of that. How do you all manage to balance so much, especially with a small team, is that right?  Pratik (ARU): Yes. Technically we only have one full-time staff. Most are part-time, but ranging from. 10% to 80%. Largely we rely on the community members, volunteers, and we pay the volunteers when we can. And other times, I think it speaks to how much time and effort and how genuinely, folks like Robin, who is the co ED of ARU and Parsu who is the office manager, and other folks in Harrisburg, connected with different community leaders, folks of different subgroups over the years. So. When ARU moved to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania post pandemic, it took them a while to get the hang of the community, the growing community. Back then it used to [00:17:00] be 10, 20,000 max in central PA and now our estimation is like 70, 80,000 in central PA. It took them a while to create space of trust, that ARU are people that they can come for when they run into problems. And even when we don't have a lot of resources, people show up. People volunteer. People volunteer their time, their spaces for meetings and events. Yeah. And that's how we've been running it. I feel like we do five or 10 x amount of work with the resources that we have, but that's largely because of the perception the community has about Robin, about Parsu, about other individuals, and about the organization.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. ARU clearly has such deep community roots, not just through the incredible work that of course Robin, [00:18:00] Parsu and so many others you have named have done to build lasting relationships that now sustain the work in the organization, but also I think it's also evident in the examples you've shared through Camp for Emerging Leaders, how you all really listen to youth and learn from their experiences. And you all shape programs that respond directly to the needs that you're seeing. And in that same spirit of care and commitment that is reflected in ARU's amazing staff and volunteers. I'm curious, are there any moments or memories from camp for emerging leaders that stand out to you? I imagine there must be so many.  Pratik (ARU): Yeah. Many stories. I started attending and facilitating the sessions for the camp I from 2022 cohort and maybe even 23 cohort. I think this is the third one that I'm doing. I'll talk about Kamana. [00:19:00] Kamana joined the 23 cohort and at that time she was still in high school. But you know, she was bubbly, full of energy and she was one of the pretty active members of the cohort and eventually after the cohort, she ended up joining ARU as initially, I think as an intern, and now she is the lead of the education program. She will be a sophomore or rising junior, starting this fall. But now she'll be running the education program, First Step Forward. Primarily it was internally us staff, we see the growth in them with experience. But also I think one of the things that ARU does is we create a sort of non-hierarchical structure within our office space in the sense that anyone can [00:20:00] design a program or any idea, and they do not feel intimidated to speaking up. I think because of that, people like Kamana, I can talk about other folks like Nawal. Them growing within ARU space shows not just with experience, but also I think the kind of open and inclusive and non hierarchical space that we create they feel comfortable enough in leading. A lot of times when we have , X, y, and Z needs to be done in the group chat, people just volunteer. Even when they don't get paid, we see our staff, our volunteer base just show up time and time again. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. ARU is such a special container. You've created this beautiful space where people can grow and then also have agency to shape that container in whatever way that they want. That is so special. How can listeners support your work this [00:21:00] summer? Whether that's showing up or donating or volunteering or spreading the word.  Pratik (ARU): One of the things is for the listeners, I feel like not a lot of folks know about Bhutanese community much. So yes, they speak Nepali. They sometimes they identify as Nepali because it's just easy. , Bhutanese folks normally identify as either Bhutanese or Nepali or American or any combination of those three identities. A lot of folks do not know, including folks from Nepal about the atrocity, the trauma that the community went through had to go through the forced persecution out of Bhutan and then living under very limited means while in the refugee camps in Nepal and even the number of challenges the community still [00:22:00] faces. I talked a little bit about mental health needs. There's. There are needs around, health seeking behavior and similar to other immigrant communities as well, but also, on education. Because of the historical division around caste and class and other demographic details, certain folks in the community are geared towards success versus others aren't. And we see that. We see the pattern quite distinct by their indigeneity, by their caste, by their last names. In our community you can tell what their caste is, what their ethnic background is with their last names. So I would invite the audience to learn a little bit more about this community and if you have that space and resources [00:23:00] to be, if you're a researcher, if you want to do some research studies, if you want to bring some programs. If you have scholarship ideas, if you want to create any scholarship for the kids in the community, or if you have means, and if you can donate, either or. It doesn't have to be just, financial resources. It can be sometimes being available as mentor to some of the kids to show them these are the possibilities. To summarize, learn more about the community if you don't know already including some of the new atrocities, the community's facing right now with ICE detention and deportation, even when the community was brought in to this country after years and years of approval through the process. And if you have resources and means help with knowledge sharing, being available or with [00:24:00] financial means either or. I just wanted to mention that I work with ARU and I work with the Bhutanese community, but like I said, I'm not from the Bhutan community. I grew up in Nepal. I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent, but I definitely cannot speak for the experience of going and living as a refugee. So,, if you have any question, if you want to learn more about that, Cheryl and I, we are happy to put you in touch with folks with incredible stories, inspiring stories of resilience in the community. Cheryl (Host): Thank you so much. All of the links, whether to learn more, donate or get involved, as well as information about the disappearances impacting the Bhutanese American community will be included in our show notes. A huge thank you to Pratik from Asian Refugees United for joining us tonight. We're deeply grateful for the work you do and the love you carry for our [00:25:00] communities. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We're going to take a quick music break and when we come back we'll hear more about the summer programming happening across the AACRE network with folks from Lavender Phoenix, and Hmong innovating politics. So don't go anywhere. Next up, you're listening to a track called “Juniper” by Minjoona, a project led by Korean American musician, Jackson Wright. This track features Ari Statler on bass, josh Qiyan on drums, and Ryan Fu producing. Juniper is the lead single from Minjoona's newest release, the Juniper EP, a five track p roject rooted in indie rock, 60 throwback vibes, and lyric forward storytelling. You can follow Minjoona on Instagram at @minjoonamusic or find them on Spotify to keep up with upcoming releases. We'll drop the links in our show notes. Enjoy the track and we'll be right back. [00:26:00] [00:27:00] [00:28:00] [00:29:00] [00:30:00]  And we're back!!. You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. That was “Juniper” by Minjoona.  Huge thanks to Jackson Wright and the whole crew behind that track [00:31:00] Before the break, we were live with Pratik from Asian Refugees United, talking about the powerful summer programming, supporting the Nepalese speaking Bhutanese community in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Now I'm joined by from Blair Phoenix. From Lavender Phoenix, who's here to share about her experiences as a summer organizer In Lav N'S annual summer in Lav N's annual summer organizer in Lav N'S annual summer organizing program. Hi Mar. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Okay. Mar, do you mind for our listeners out there who are just tuning in, do you mind introducing yourself? Mar (LavNix): Yes. Thank you, Cheryl. Hi, y'all. My name is Mar Pronouns, [00:32:00] she/siya/any! I come from the lands of the Ibaloi people in the Philippines or “Maharlika”. I am a queer Muslim and yeah, I'm just happy to be here. Cheryl (Host): Yay. We're so happy to have you here, mar! For those who might not be familiar, Mar is joining us from Lavender Phoenix as part of this year's summer organizing program. Mar,, could you start by giving our listeners a quick introduction to Lavender Phoenix? And then could you tell us a little bit about the summer organizing program and what it's all about? Mar (LavNix): Yeah, of course. Cheryl. Let's start with Lavender Phoenix. Lavender Phoenix is a really awesome nonprofit over here in the Bay Area who focus on trans queer, API. Work basically. I really love Lavender Phoenix because of their unwavering commitment to collective liberation [00:33:00] and the very specific focus and centering around trans queer API leadership because our leadership is often underrepresented and because there's so many intersections there, we need to have trans queer API leadership to be able to move the work. And so really fond of lavender Phoenix's ethos and mission values. This year for the summer 2025, I'm part of their summer organizer program, which is a cohort of organizers both emerging, established and wanting to learn, and we learn a lot of transformative interpersonal organizing skills, but also building our more technical skill sets alongside with that. So we're actually three weeks from graduation [00:34:00] nooooooooo!. Anyways, yeah, just really happy to be in this cohort. I'm feeling really aligned in that I am here and it is transforming me in the way I had intentions for when I applied for it. Cheryl (Host): Wow. It sounds like this was a really impactful program for you. I wanna know what kinds of projects are you all working on?  Mar (LavNix): Yeah, so it's really beautiful because it's not just like a single project the cohort works on, it's kind of a myriad of things. We have two folks who are doing projects with other organizations, and then we have the rest of the folks working on two projects within Lavender Phoenix's programming. And so for my group, my very awesome group, we are doing the River of Life Project, and the River of Life Project is a five week long cohort where we practice storytelling in a very vulnerable and honest way, and this is for the [00:35:00] purpose to really witness one another and to cultivate our storytelling skills because our stories and narratives is so important. There's whole states and governments trying to take that away from us, and so our project is to guide and facilitate this project and meet with members across rank. It's super cool seeing the different facets of lavender Phoenix come together and be down, to be in the act of vulnerability and honesty and that is their praxis for collective liberation. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Yeah. Yeah. That's so well said. And it's so important that we have these spaces to practice that vulnerability because we are so often punished for being who we are. Right. So, mm-hmm. These programs are so crucial as you have uplifted for us. I am so curious to learn more about this River of Life project, but [00:36:00] also before we even get to that, I wanna zoom out a little bit and focus on your growth and who are you now as you get closer three weeks from graduation?  Mar (LavNix): Ooh, that is such a beautiful question, Cheryl. Yeah. I've been really reflecting on how this program transformed me this summer and to bring us back to when I first applied. I first applied sometime in March, I believe. I remember 'cause it was around Ramadan. I was at a point in my life where I felt stagnant in my organizing journey. I would attend all these workshops, I would keep reading, but there was a disconnect in how my mind wanted to move next. So here we are in 2025, I was accepted into the program. I was like, yay, my people. And you know, [00:37:00] my expectations was met. In fact, it was exceeded. Very exceeded because I didn't know these things that i'm learning now. I didn't know how much I needed them until I learned them. In my time with Lavender Phoenix, as I'm reflecting to this point, graduation being three weeks out, I realized that before joining this cohort, my heart and my spirit was in a really bad place, and I think a lot of people could resonate. There's genocides, ethnic cleansings, and just terrible things happening all over the world, and there's like a dichotomy of people who are trying so hard and then there's a dichotomy of people who are unaffected by it. And so my spirit and my heart was so broken down seems really dramatic, but it wasn't being rejuvenated for sure. And so, being in this space and being in a [00:38:00] container that's just honesty and vulnerability and it's all rooted in each other's liberation really replenish that cup. The teachings and the knowledge and the wisdom that I'm getting, it's helping me add more to my North Star, which I'm really thankful of because I didn't know this is what I needed in March. Cheryl (Host): That is so beautiful. So much of what's going on right now by the systems that be, the powers that be, it's meant to isolate us and to make us feel exactly what you said. Capitalism isolates us and keeps us in that place because that's how it benefits . So Lavender Phoenix is summer organizing program, what I'm hearing from you is this revolutionary space that is counter to that. It's filled with hope and dreaming for a better world. So how is that being informed in River of Life, in the storytelling leadership development that you are developing within Lavender Phoenix's membership?  Mar (LavNix): Oh, yes. I'm [00:39:00] understanding the responsibility on how I move in this space. And so before the cohort of the River of Life project presents, it's actually gonna be me and another facilitator going to share our stories. And so we're also in the act of being vulnerable and honest and really wanting the others to witness us as we will witness them. We've removed kind of that superiority in that space. When I think of this, it brings me back to Freire's idea of an engaged pedagogy, but not necessarily like an educator and a student, but like removing hierarchies, which I think is really, a value that's rooted in, or lavender Phoenix is rooted in that value. There's no hierarchy, but there is ranks and we all see each other as equals. It's really beautiful to be able to see that and then know how I move in this [00:40:00] space to prepare our cohort. I hope that my storytelling, I can only hope, I do not know how it's gonna be received inshallah it's received super well. But I really do hope that they see how vulnerable I also get and how I'm doing this so that I could build deeper relationships with these people as I continue my journey with Lavender, Phoenix and to them as well. I hope these values, if not already present in our people, this project helps them cultivate that even further.  Cheryl (Host): I wanna ask what is something you want to share with our listeners who were in a similar space as you who felt lost and that they wanted something to grow in. What advice would you give?  Mar (LavNix): This is a really beautiful question [00:41:00] and So many things flooded my brain as you were asking this question, but i'm feeling more pulled and called to share this one thing . As I'm going through the summer organizer program, I really realized the importance of tending to myself so that I could show up for others. I have to be able to know how to advocate for my needs and what I need so that I can be in spaces with other people. It's so important that I know how to acknowledge my shame or whatever pain points I'm experiencing and let that not be a hindrance to the work, but integrate it in a way that I will tend to it, and by tending to it, I can continue doing the work. And I know it's really [00:42:00] hard to prioritize yourself when it feels like you should prioritize everything else in the world right now, but I am really learning that that's what I needed to do. When I say prioritize myself, I'm not saying oh, I need to go do this and I need to go drink all my water. Yes, also care for our physical bodies and our mental bodies, but also taking time to know who I am as a person and what I could offer to the movement, and knowing how to communicate to others in the movement so that I could show up as a better organizer. And so the final words that I will have to share is I hope everyone who's hearing this shows the love that they have for other people to themselves [00:43:00] too.  Cheryl (Host): That was so beautiful. What you just shared right now about tending to yourself that's part of the work too. And that's so counterintuitive, I feel. This project that you're leading, the river of life where the focus is so much on your story and honoring who you are, I think that is the true essence of what it means to be trans and queer. Showing up with your whole self and embracing that. And in turn, by doing that, you are holding everybody else too, that very practice. To find out more about Lavender Phoenix Mar, how can our listeners plug into Lavender Phoenix's work?  Mar (LavNix): Follow us on Instagram or check out Lavender, Phoenix website. We post a lot. Sign up for the newsletter. Volunteer. We're really cool. Or just look at the staff and see if anybody calls you and you wanna hit them up. We're so awesome. Cheryl (Host): Thank you for joining us on tonight's show, Mar, and for sharing your experiences on Lavender Phoenix's [00:44:00] summer organizing program with all of All of the links that Mar mentioned on how to stay in touch with Lavender Phoenix's work be available in our show notes as per usual. We are so grateful, thank you again, Mar! Next up, we're joined by Katie from Hmong Innovating Politics. Katie. Welcome, welcome. I'm so happy to have you on our show tonight. Would you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Katie (HIP): Hi everyone. My name is Katie. I use she her pronouns. My Hmong name is ING and I mainly introduce myself as ING to my community, especially elders because one ING is my given name. Katie is like a self-assigned name. In my work with HIP I've been trying to figure out what feels more natural when, but I do catch myself introducing myself to my Hmong community. And yeah, I'm totally cool if folks referring to me as Katie Oring and my ask is just pronouncing my name correctly. Who are my people? Who's my community? I would say my community is my family. And then the young people that I work [00:45:00] with, the elders in my community, the ones who would like to claim me, my team. I would say Hmong women that I've met through some of the work that I do at my volunteer org, and oh my goodness, there're so many people. My friends, oh my gosh, if my friends are listening to this, my friends are my community, they're my people. They keep me grounded, alive and fun. My siblings. All of the folks in Fresno and Sacramento that have been a part of the spaces that I've shared at HIP and the spaces that we've created together.  Cheryl (Host): You are a community leader through and through . For folks who are listening and don't know, Hmong Innovating Politics is one of the AACRE groups and it has two different hubs basically in Central California, one in Sacramento, and one in Fresno. Katie, do you mind sharing a little bit about HIP and the work that you all do? Katie (HIP): Yeah. So, we are a power building organization and what does that mean, right? One is that we are [00:46:00] a part of empowering and supporting our community to become active change makers in their community. We believe that those who are most impacted by issues should also be the ones that receive resources and training to lead solutions and design, the dreams of their community. A framework that we use is called Belong Believe Become. We want to create space where young people feel their belongingness, know that they are rooted here in their community, and that they have a place. The believing part of our framework is that we want young people to also see themselves and see themselves as leaders. In their community and leadership can mean many forms, right? There's like passive and active leadership, and we want young people to know that there is enough space in this world for everyone in whichever capacity, they're choosing to show up in their community. The important piece of believing is that, believing that you also like matter and that your decisions are also impactful. And then become is that. [00:47:00] we share this framework and it's circular because we notice that some people can come into our space feeling like I know exactly who I'm gonna be. I know exactly what I wanna do, and feel really disconnected from their history and their, and the multiple parts of their identities. belong, believe become is cyclical and it's wherever you're at. And in this third piece of becoming it is that our young people know that they are leading the charge and transforming systems. That they are shifting the narratives of our community, that they get to own the narratives of our community, and that they are a part of the Power building our community as well. Cheryl (Host): Yeah, I love that . As we're talking, I'm noticing that you talk so much about young people and how so much of your work's framework is centered around young people. Do you mind giving context into that? So much of HIP's programming is on youth leadership, and so I'm wondering what does that look like programming wise and especially right now in the summer? Katie (HIP): Yeah, so it's more [00:48:00] recently that HIP has been identifying ourselves as a power building organization. Before we had claimed our work as base building, and this is through our civic engagement work for voter engagement and empowerment, and turning out the vote that, that is like what we, our organization was like centered on. Through that work, what we noticed was that like cycles and seasons after season, it was young people coming back and then they started asking are you all gonna have like consistent programming space for us, or is it just gonna always be around the election cycle? Through our civic engagement work, a framework that we use is the IVE model, integrated voter engagement. And that is that you are relationship building year after year, even outside of the election season. And so then it was how do we be more intentional about centering the people who are coming to us and centering the people who are shifting and challenging and pushing our leadership. And that was to [00:49:00] then move and prioritize the young people in our community. I think it's been maybe four or five years since this shift where we've really prioritized young people and really centered our work around youth justice. So then we had to create these spaces. Civic engagement work had primarily consisted of phone banking and canvassing and through that I think a lot of young people were then getting firsthand experience of this is like what it's like to be angry about these issue in my community. This is also what it's like to hold space for other people to go through and process their emotions. And then it was like, how do we train and skill up our young people to not only listen to their community, but be able to strategize and lead and take their ideas and dreams and put 'em into action. At the time folks working in our civic engagement programs were high school youth, college transitional age, young adults who are not in college. And we even had parent [00:50:00] age folks in our programs as well. In figuring out how do we better support our young folks was that a lot of young people were asking for more like designated space for youth that are in high school. The other request was can you all not be college based because not all young adults go to college in our community, yet we still wanted to access the programs. We had to strategize around these pieces. Also at the time when we were running civic engagement program, we were also building up our trans and queer work in the Central Valley and figuring out like what is HIP's place in this work? So that landed us into three programs. We have a program called Tsev which is TSEV. Um, and that means House in Hmong, but it's an acronym. It stands for Transforming Systems, empowering Our Village, and the reason why we named our youth program that is in the Hmong community, we refer to our community a lot “lub zos” which means village in English. And so that is why we wanted to name our program with something around the word village and then also [00:51:00] home, belongingness, right? We wanted our program to signify belonging. And so that is what landed us in this program. This program is based at a high school and we train cohorts of youth and the curriculum that we cover in all of our programs are pretty similar, but they are adjusted to be more relevant to the age group and the experiences that we are serving. So we have our high school program. We have our trans and queer young adult program called QHIP, queer Hmong intersectional Pride. And then we also have a young adult program called the Civic Engagement Fellowship, but I feel like we're gonna be revamping next year, so we might have a new name next year. And that one is, open to all young adults of all gender and sexuality. The projects that is focused in that is what's coming up on the election. So specific propositions and measures or whatever we are bringing to the ballot. And then with QHIP, it is very focused on intentionally building up leadership in the trans and queer community. [00:52:00] Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): You all tackle power building in so many different intersections, and I think that's so brilliant. You really tailor these spaces to the needs of your community and you're always listening to your community. That is honestly such a theme within the AACRE network. Could you tell us how these groups stay active during the summer?  Katie (HIP): Yeah! During the summer, we close off the cohort in June when the school year ends. And so we're actually in the assessment phase of this program right now. Our seniors throughout the summer go through a one-on-one exit with one of the staff in Fresno or Sacramento. After the senior exit closes out, then we'll be doing a overall annual assessment with all of the young people that were in the program this year. We're actually closing both these pieces out next week. We try to make things fun, right? So for the one-on-ones, we'll all come to the office and we'll have the one-on-one exit interviews and after that we'll go get lunch. somewhere cute, somewhere fun. Then with the end of the year evals, after we complete them for everyone, we'll just hang out. This [00:53:00] year we're planning to do like a paint by numbers night. And then we always somehow end up karaoking. For QHIP, our trans and queer young adult program we actually partner with Lavender Phoenix and have them attend the leadership exchange program that's happening right now. We did our own onboarding and then we celebrated the month of pride. And we also celebrated the trans march. Then after that transition into the leadership exchange program at Lavender Phoenix. After that program, I believe our lead members are going to be designing some projects this summer. And then they'll have the rest of the summer and hours to do their projects, and then we'll eventually close out with a retreat with them. Cheryl (Host): And for our listeners out there, do you mind giving a quick a preview on what lavender, Phoenix's leadership exchange program is and how you all work in tandem with each other?  Katie (HIP): Yeah. Okay. I know in the past, we've sent our more new to organizing leaders [00:54:00] to the leadership exchange program. This year the intention is that we wanted to send leaders from our community who might already have some organizing experience who have some experience in social justice and movement work. And so, during this I think some of my favorite things from the leadership exchange program is teaching folks how to ask for help. I think a lot of our young adults navigate their lives not knowing who to turn to for help and how to formulate and ask that is clear and supportive of their needs. So that's something that we really appreciate through the leadership exchange program. And another piece is mutual aid funding. Lavender Phoenix trains up leaders around fundraising support and that's something I'm really looking forward to our young people gaining. The other piece is ultimately training of trans and queer leaders in our community so that we can continue to sustain this movement and this lifelong work of trans and queer liberation. The leadership exchange program has been able to equip folks with very necessary skills so that they can continue to sustain trans and queer [00:55:00] leadership. I bring in the fundraising piece because, I think a lot of young people that I work with, they're so scared to ask for resource support, especially money. And I think a lot of it comes with our own family trauma around finances, right? So, I'm excited to see what they debrief about and what they reflect on.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. It really sounds like all of these programs that you all do are really building up leaders for the long term of our movements. Asking for help is so related to navigating money, trauma and is so key in shaping liberatory futures. For folks out there who wanna get plugged into some of HIP's programming work, how can we stay in touch with you all? Katie (HIP): Our Instagram is the best spot. And then on our Instagram you can click on the little short link to sign up for our newsletter. We have some volunteer opportunities coming up in the month of August so if folks in the Central Valley wanna support with one of our community engagement [00:56:00] surveys, either to partake in the survey or to support us in doing the outreach and getting the word out so that folks complete the survey. There's two ways that you can participate with us. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Thanks, Katie, and of course all of those links will be available in our show notes. Thanks so much for coming on our show tonight, Katie, and thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll see you next time. [00:57:00] [00:58:00]  The post APEX Express – July 17, 2025: Summer Programming in the AACRE Network appeared first on KPFA.

Today, on the Hudson Mohawk Magazine, First, Moses Nagel brings us excerpts from the Schenectady City Council meeting on Good Cause Eviction. Then, Willie Terry visits the Citizen Action of New York - Capital District Chapter, "Open House Celebration," Later on, Blaise Bryant pays tribute to the late Denise DiNoto After that, Khin Naing discusses how he brought Asian American and Pacific Islander heritage celebrations to Troy High School. Finally, a piece from our archives with Avery Stempel of Collar City Mushrooms.

Send us a textOne of the best things about bingo is the people you meet. Whether it's at your local bingo hall, a bingo tournament or from watching them on your favorite live streaming channel. Included in that mix is KingTupu. Proud to be a strong Pacific Islander representative, we get to learn more about his bingo journey in this episode.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – July 10, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter Hyphenly; it's our no-fluff love letter with hot takes, heartfelt stories, and all the feels of living in between cultures. Come for the nuance, stay for the vibes! Link below ⁠⁠⁠https://immigrantlys-newsletter.beehiiv.com/subscribe⁠⁠ This episode is brought to you by Zocdoc. Stop putting off those doctor appointments and visit http://Zocdoc.com/Immigrantly to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. A quick note before we start. For Immigrant Heritage Month, we are revisiting one of those conversations that stays with you. Today's guest is ⁠Emily Kwong⁠, a dedicated journalist and storyteller renowned for her outstanding work at NPR. Emily's reporting spans a broad spectrum, from climate change and science to compelling human interest stories that shed light on the rich tapestry of immigrant communities. Her keen insights and propensity to capture the essence of human experiences have garnered widespread acclaim in journalism. I've been deeply engaged with Emily's latest podcast, 'Inheriting,' which delves into Asian American and Pacific-Islander families. Through her exploration of how historical events reverberate across generations, Emily creates a narrative that feels intimate and profound, akin to sharing a moment with her in a cozy living room. Each episode, including the one on Pakistan, resonates deeply, showcasing Emily's passion for unraveling the complexities of identity, culture, and belonging. Immigrantly is a weekly podcast that celebrates the extraordinariness of immigrant life. We do this by providing our listeners with authentic, accurate insights into the immigrant identity in America. Immigrantly has garnered significant recognition and has been featured in renowned media outlets such as the ⁠Nieman Storyboard⁠, ⁠The Guardian⁠, ⁠The Slowdown⁠, and ⁠CNN⁠. Join us as we create new intellectual engagement for our audience. You can get more information at ⁠http://immigrantlypod.com⁠. Please share the love and leave us a review on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ & ⁠Spotify⁠ to help more people find us!  You can connect with Saadia on ⁠Twitter ⁠@swkkhan Email: saadia@immigrantlypod.com Host & Producer: Saadia Khan I Content Writer: Saadia Khan I Editorial review: Shei Yu I Sound Designer & Editor: Haziq Ahmed Farid & Lou RaskinI Immigrantly Theme Music: Simon Hutchinson | Other Music: Epidemic Sound Immigrantly podcast is an Immigrantly Media Production. For advertising inquiries, you can contact us at info@immigrantlypod.com Don't forget to subscribe to our Apple podcast⁠ channel ⁠for insightful podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates and behind-the-scenes content. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In honor of Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we bring you an episode from Inheriting Season One. Inheriting is a show about Asian American and Pacific Islander families, which explores how one event in history can ripple through generations. Nicole Salaver’s uncle, Patrick Salaver, was one of the leaders of the Third World Liberation Front at San Francisco State University in the late 1960s. This movement not only led to the recognition of the term “Asian American,” but also brought ethnic studies to colleges nationwide. Pat made a difference in the world as a Filipino civil rights leader, but is largely unknown by the public. Now, Nicole wants to set the record straight and honor her uncle’s legacy, while building her own. Follow more of Nicole’s work on her show, the Cultural Kultivators Podcast. Stay connected with us! Email us at inheriting@laiststudios.com to share your questions, feelings, and even your story. Grow your business–no matter what stage you’re in. Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at SHOPIFY.COM/paradise Visit www.preppi.com/LAist to receive a FREE Preppi Emergency Kit (with any purchase over $100) and be prepared for the next wildfire, earthquake or emergency! Support for this podcast is made possible by Gordon and Dona Crawford, who believe that quality journalism makes Los Angeles a better place to live.Support LAist Today: https://LAist.com/join

In honor of Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we bring you an episode from Inheriting Season One. Inheriting is a show about Asian American and Pacific Islander families, which explores how one event in history can ripple through generations. Bảo Trương’s parents both fled Vietnam in 1975 following the war. His father Thuận was a pilot for the South Vietnamese Air Force and left the day before the Fall of Saigon, evacuating almost 100 people to Thailand on a plane. Thuận has now been settled in the U.S. for decades, but he still writes songs mourning the Vietnam of his childhood – a country that, to him, no longer exists because it is still under a communist government. On the flipside, his son Bảo wants to live in the Vietnam of today, a yearning his father doesn’t understand. In this episode, the father and son sit down for a frank conversation about the country they both long for, in different ways. Grow your business–no matter what stage you’re in. Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at SHOPIFY.COM/paradise Visit www.preppi.com/LAist to receive a FREE Preppi Emergency Kit (with any purchase over $100) and be prepared for the next wildfire, earthquake or emergency! Support for this podcast is made possible by Gordon and Dona Crawford, who believe that quality journalism makes Los Angeles a better place to live.Support LAist Today: https://LAist.com/join

In honor of Mental Health Awareness Month, we bring you an episode from Inheriting Season One. Inheriting is a show about Asian American and Pacific Islander families, which explores how one event in history can ripple through generations. Leialani Wihongi-Santos is CHamoru and was raised on the island of Guam with a distorted view of history. She was taught that the United States "saved” her island from occupation by Imperial Japan. As she’s gotten older, Leialani has learned that framing is not entirely true. In some ways, the U.S. military took advantage of the island and the people who live there, sometimes destroying culture and customs that had survived centuries of colonization. Leialani is now determined to understand more of this history from a CHamoru perspective, so she can preserve and teach it to others. In this episode, she turns to her grandpa, Joseph Aflleje-Santos, for answers. Stay connected with us! E-mail us at inheriting@laiststudios.com to share your questions, feelings, and even your story.

In honor of Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we bring you an episode from Inheriting Season One. Inheriting is a show about Asian American and Pacific Islander families, which explores how one event in history can ripple through generations. In part two of Carol Kwang Park’s story, we follow Carol’s journey to connect more deeply with her family – and introduce the family-led conversations that are central to Inheriting. Decades after the 1992 LA Uprising, Carol finally learns what her mom experienced during the riots and how she made it back home. It allows for a better understanding of her mother, as well as her family’s journey leading up to the Uprising – which she never had as a child. For the first time, Carol also talks to her brother, Albert Park, about what it was like to work at the gas station as kids, especially around the time of the Uprising. Content Warning: This episode contains racial slurs and discusses police brutality. If you want to learn more about any of the historical moments we talk about on our show, visit our website: LAist.com/Inheriting

In honor of Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we bring you an episode from Inheriting Season One. Inheriting is a show about Asian American and Pacific Islander families, which explores how one event in history can ripple through generations. Carol Kwang Park was 12 years old, working as a cashier at her family's gas station in Compton, California, when the 1992 L.A. Uprising forever changed her life. Her mom was at the gas station that day and Carol was unsure if she'd even make it home. At the time, she didn't understand why tensions came to a head in Los Angeles, following the acquittal of the officers who beat Rodney King. She also never understood why her mother insisted on keeping the business going, especially after the Uprising. As an adult, a personal crisis prompts Carol to finally start processing that event and her place in history. Content Warning: This episode contains racial slurs and discusses police brutality. If you want to learn more about any of the historical moments we talk about on our show, visit our website: LAist.com/Inheriting

*Content warning: death, infant loss, pregnancy and birth trauma, medical trauma, medical neglect, racism*Free + Confidential Resources + Safety Tips: somethingwaswrong.com/resources ABC's new show, Familicide: https://www.familicide.net/Melissa Espey-Mueller's North Dallas Doula Associates:Website: https://www.northdallasdoulas.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/northdallasdoulas/ Moms Advocating For MomsS23 survivors Markeda, Kristen and Amanda have created a nonprofit, Moms Advocating for Moms, in hopes to create a future where maternal well-being is prioritized, disparities are addressed, and every mother has the resources and support she needs to thrive: https://www.momsadvocatingformoms.org/take-actionhttps://linktr.ee/momsadvocatingformoms Please sign the survivors petitions below to improve midwifery education and regulation in Texas:https://www.change.org/p/improve-midwifery-education-and-regulation-in-texas?recruiter=1336781649&recruited_by_id=74bf3b50-fd98-11ee-9e3f-a55a14340b5a&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink Malik's Law https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=89R&Bill=HB4553 M.A.M.A. has helped file a Texas bill called Malik's Law, which is intended to implement requirements for midwives in Texas to report birth outcomes in hopes of improving transparency and data collection in the midwifery field in partnership with Senator Claudia Ordaz. *Sources:Best Doulahttps://bestdoulatraining.com/ CAPPAhttps://cappa.net/training-certification/ DONA Internationalhttps://www.dona.org/ Madriellahttps://madriella.org/ ProDoulahttps://www.prodoula.com/ American College of Nurse Midwiveshttps://midwife.org/ American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG)https://www.acog.org/ A Brief History of Midwifery in Americahttps://www.ohsu.edu/womens-health/brief-history-midwifery-america CDC, Maternal Mortality Rates in the United States, 2023https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2023/maternal-mortality-rates-2023.htm CDC, Working Together to Reduce Black Maternal Mortalityhttps://www.cdc.gov/womens-health/features/maternal-mortality.html Geospatial distribution of relative cesarean section rates within the USAhttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9284873/ In Mexico, Midwives Offer Care Rooted In Ancestral Traditionhttps://www.pih.org/article/mexico-midwives-offer-care-rooted-ancestral-tradition Insights into the U.S. Maternal Mortality Crisis: An International Comparisonhttps://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2024/jun/insights-us-maternal-mortality-crisis-international-comparison?utm_source=chatgpt.com March of Dimeshttps://www.marchofdimes.org/peristats/about-us Maternal Mortality and Maternity Care in the United States Compared to 10 Other Developed Countrieshttps://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries National Midwifery Institutehttps://www.nationalmidwiferyinstitute.com/midwifery North American Registry of Midwives (NARM)https://narm.org/ Racism During Pregnancy and Birthing: Experiences from Asian and Pacific Islander, Black, Latina, and Middle Eastern Womenhttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9713108/ Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation (TDLR)https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/ US Has Highest Infant, Maternal Mortality Rates Despite the Most Health Care Spendinghttps://www.ajmc.com/view/us-has-highest-infant-maternal-mortality-rates-despite-the-most-health-care-spending What is a freebirth?https://www.pregnancybirthbaby.org.au/what-is-freebirth *SWW S23 Theme Song & Artwork: Thank you so much to Emily Wolfe for covering Glad Rag's original song, U Think U for us this season!Hear more from Emily Wolfe:On SpotifyOn Apple Musichttps://www.emilywolfemusic.com/instagram.com/emilywolfemusicGlad Rags: https://www.gladragsmusic.com/ The S23 cover art is by the Amazing Sara StewartSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.