Podcasts about bryson city

When most people think about the Smoky Mountains, they picture Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forge. We've spent time in both, but lately we've found ourselves drawn to places that move at a different pace. We just returned from a couples' getaway to Bryson City, NC and we're sharing the best itinerary for your fun, relaxing, and unique time spent from the Great Smoky Mountain Music Train, dinner at The Fryemont Inn, treetop soaking experience at Lakeview at Fontana, waterfall hikes, elk viewing, and more!

The Great Smokey Mountains of North Carolina have a long tradition of eerie folklore, including ghost towns, haunted locations, strange paranormal phenomena, and of course, Bigfoot sightings. This week I'll be looking at some Bigfoot encounters in Swain County, which holds more of the Great Smokey Mountains State Park than any other county. A woman and her husband spot Bigfoot on a road along the Little Tennessee River; vacationers spend a restless night in their cabin haunted by howls and screams; Sasquatch footprints are found in deep snow on the Appalachian Trail by a hiker; and a backpacker finds a strange footprint by a creek in Great Smokey Mountains National Park. Is Bigfoot one of the spooky mysteries lurking in the mountains of the Tarheel State?Chapters:0:00 - The Mysterious Great Smokey Mountains of North Carolina1:53 - Bigfoot Sighting on Needmore Road13:57 - Vacationers near Bryson City hear scary vocalizations20:27 - Hiker finds long trail of footprints in the snow near the the Nantahala Outdoor Center25:46 - Backpacker finds primate footprint near remote creek31:27 - Not many sightings, but some strange encounters#bigfoot #northcarolina #crytpozoologyLinks!Follow us on Social media!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oddanduntold/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oddanduntoldWebsite: https://www.oddanduntold.comEmail me! : jason@oddanduntold.comOdd & Untold Merch!: https://oddanduntold-shop.fourthwall.com/Sasquatch Sightings from This Summer: https://youtu.be/qV6mLAkCfF8?si=fEKCq7M7H4usZNaqBigfoot Sightings in Sweden and Other Parts of Scandinavia: https://youtu.be/9HyX_5YAaU0?si=UjhP13UP3ShmTI0kBFRO Sightings for Swain County: https://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_county_reports.asp?state=nc&county=SwainCheck out Riversend, the band behind "Moonlight," our awesome theme music!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/1yIwfeu2cH1kDZaMYxKOUe?si=NIUijnmsQe6LNWOsfZ2jPwRiversend Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RiversendbandRiversend Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riversendband/

Episode OverviewIn this Casting Angles segment on The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash and veteran guide and Master Casting Instructor Mac Brown tackle one of the most practical — and underappreciated — skill sets in freshwater fly fishing: how to adapt your approach when elevated, stained water follows prolonged rainfall. Recorded against the backdrop of a week of steady rain across western North Carolina, with more forecast ahead, Mac shares a framework for fly selection, water reading and presentation discipline that turns a condition most anglers write off into a genuine tactical advantage.Mac and Marvin walk through the core principles of fishing stained water: understanding where fish go when visibility drops (higher in the column, into the kitchen riffles), how to match fly color and size to actual visibility rather than habit, and why the grid-tightening approach — spending two to three times longer per spot and halving your grid interval — is the single most important behavioral adjustment for covering dirty water effectively. The conversation also touches on how stained conditions can work in an angler's favor by masking wading noise and allowing closer approaches, and closes with an update on Mac Brown's newly redesigned websites and upcoming fly fishing schools and masterclasses out of Bryson City, North Carolina.Key TakeawaysHow to position flies higher in the water column when stained conditions push trout and bass off structure and toward the surface.Why contrast — not naturalism — is the governing principle for fly selection in dirty water, and how that logic changes depending on whether you're fishing a deep pool or a shallow riffle.When to fish dark, high-contrast dry flies (foam or stimulator-style patterns in black or dark gray) versus light-colored nymphs in shallow, broken riffle water where the food is actually concentrated.How to use size, shine and sound (rattles) as visibility supplements when natural colors become invisible in tea-colored water.Why tightening your grid — cutting your grid interval in half and spending two to three times longer per spot — is essential when fish can't track a fly from distance in low-visibility conditions.How stained water tilts the odds in the angler's favor by masking wading noise and enabling closer presentations that would spook fish in clear conditions.Techniques & Gear CoveredMac Brown's stained-water framework covers three primary presentations. For dry fly fishing, he advocates dark, high-contrast patterns — black foam bodies, dark brown bodies and black stimulator-style flies — that read clearly against an overcast sky. For nymphing, the key distinction is depth: in deep holes, light penetration is insufficient for fish to see anything, so Mac redirects anglers to shallow riffle heads (what he calls "the kitchen") where fish move to feed and where visibility remains functional in as little as a foot of water. In those shallower zones, he recommends light-colored, small and shiny nymph patterns. Marvin adds that mops and dark stonefly patterns fished with a jigging retrieve are effective for probing stained water more slowly and deliberately, coaxing reluctant fish to commit. Mac references the "Rain X Mop" developed by Jim Estes as an example of a light-colored pattern that works well in shallow riffle water. Rattles are noted as a viable visibility supplement, consistent with the same logic that makes sound important in night fishing. The overarching gear philosophy: let the contrast between fly and water, not the fly's naturalistic fidelity, drive your selection.FAQ / Key Questions AnsweredHow do I choose fly colors when fishing stained or dirty water?Mac Brown's core principle is contrast over naturalism: pick a fly color that stands out against the actual background the fish sees, not the color that matches the natural. In overcast conditions with stained water, that means dark dries (black, dark gray) against a light sky, and light or shiny nymphs in shallow zones where the water itself is the dark background. The single rule of thumb is to avoid matching the water's color — a tea-colored fly in tea-colored water is effectively invisible.Where do trout and bass go when water levels rise and clarity drops?Both trout and bass move higher in the water column and position themselves in shallower, broken water — particularly riffle heads and foam lines at the head of pools, which Mac calls "the kitchen." These are the zones where dislodged food concentrates and where there's enough ambient light for fish to see. Deep holes become largely unproductive in stained conditions because light penetration is insufficient for fish to spot a fly at depth.How should I adjust my wading and water coverage in dirty water?Mac Brown recommends spending two to three times longer in each spot compared to clear-water fishing, and cutting your grid interval roughly in half — from, say, two feet to one foot. Because reduced visibility shortens the distance at which fish can track and respond to a fly, thorough, systematic coverage becomes far more important than covering ground. The goal is to put the fly close enough that the fish almost bumps into it.Why can stained water actually be an advantage for fly fishers?Two factors work in the angler's favor when water is stained: fish are less able to detect the angler's presence, which allows closer approaches without spooking; and wading noise is substantially masked by the increased water volume and surface disturbance. Mac Brown notes that he personally prefers fishing in stained conditions for exactly these reasons — the playing field tilts toward the angler who adjusts technique accordingly rather than waiting for clear water.When should I use dry flies versus nymphs in elevated, stained conditions?Mac recommends a dry-dropper setup with the dropper kept very close to the surface — not three or four feet down — so that the nymph remains in the productive visibility zone. Dark, high-contrast dries remain viable in stained conditions as long as they're readable against the sky. Pure deep nymphing in pools is largely unproductive; the better bet is redirecting to shallow riffle water where fish are actively feeding and the fly can be seen.Related ContentS7, Ep 41 – Navigating High Water: Strategies for Success with Mac BrownS8, Ep 25 – The Science of Stealth: Mac Brown on Fishing Techniques for Low Flow ScenariosS8, Ep 21 – Casting into Spring: Mac Brown Discusses Wild Trout Fishing and Upcoming ClassesS7, Ep 28 – Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownConnect with Our GuestFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow the ShowFollow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and YouTube.Follow our Substack newsletter for episode updates, tips and resources.Support the ShowShop through our Amazon link to support the podcast.Join our Patreon community to support the show.If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our consulting options.Subscribe & AdvertiseSubscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast app.Think our community is a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.

Episode OverviewIn this Casting Angles episode of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash reconnects with Master Casting Instructor and veteran Western North Carolina guide Mac Brown of Mac Brown Fly Fish in Bryson City for a timely mid-May conditions update on the Tuckasegee River. With the delayed harvest season winding down and roughly three weeks left to fish the DH water, Mac and Marvin break down exactly what anglers are up against — and how to read it correctly. The Tuck is running well below its seasonal average at roughly 400–500 cfs compared to a normal 1,600–1,800 cfs, but recent rainfall and cooler temperatures are providing a welcome reprieve from what has been a difficult spring across the mid-Atlantic and southern Appalachians. The episode centers on one of the most practical and underappreciated skills in trout fishing: learning to distinguish between freshly stocked fish and the educated holdover and lake-run trout that share the same water — and adjusting technique and fly selection accordingly. Mac walks through his system for identifying fish by their behavior and location, his nymphing rig progressions through the day, and why moving away from indicators is no longer optional in low, clear water.Key TakeawaysHow to identify stocked versus holdover and lake-run trout on the Tuckasegee by using stocking truck access points and "junk food" fly response as a quick field diagnostic.Why fishing a natural-colored anchor pattern like a Walt's Worm in the morning and transitioning to smaller flies as the day progresses is Mac's preferred nymphing progression in low, clear water.How to position a small nymph pattern on the dropper or point depending on whether fish appear to be feeding higher in the column or holding deep.Why using a large sacrificial dry fly — a Parachute Adams, Stimulator or Elk Hair Caddis — as a sight indicator for a trailing small dry creates a "training wheels" system for less experienced dry fly anglers targeting educated fish on size 18–20 patterns and smaller.How marking your fly line or leader with small foam indicators or competition nymphing wax lets you track takes by watching for changes in the alignment of the indicators or wax marks.Why fishing indicator-free with a longer leader at low water is increasingly critical as DH fish become conditioned to suspension devices.Techniques & Gear CoveredThe episode focuses primarily on indicator-free and low-profile presentation techniques for technical low-water trout fishing. Mac's core nymphing approach involves a natural-colored anchor fly paired with a very small midge or emerger, with dropper or point placement adjusted based on where fish appear to be in the water column. For dry fly fishing, both Mac and Marvin advocate a sacrificial large attractor — Parachute Adams, Elk Hair Caddis, Stimulator — with a size 18–20 smaller pattern that fish are actually eating trailed 12–14 inches behind; they call the large fly "the sacrificial fly" for a reason: it never gets eaten, it just helps anglers locate their small fly. As an alternative to a sacrificial dry, Marvin recommends marking the fly line or leader with foam stick-ons or nymphing wax and watching for the indicator marking to straighten on the take. Mac confirms that big bobber rigs and streamers are the wrong tools when PhD fish are locked into size 20–24 midges and blue-winged olive emergers.FAQ / Key Questions AnsweredHow do I tell whether I'm fishing to freshly stocked trout or educated holdover fish on the Tuckasegee?Mac's field diagnostic starts with geography: on the Tuck, stocking trucks can only access about five specific pullouts on the narrow gravel road, so fish podded up near those locations are almost certainly recent stockers. Fish holding far from those access points in less obvious water are likely holdovers or lake-run trout. A second confirmation: throw a "junk food" fly — a bright attractor or gaudy nymph — through a riffle. If you're getting easy eats, those are the new fish. PhD fish feeding on size 20–24 midges will ignore streamers and big rigs entirely.When should I use an indicator versus fishing indicator-free on low, clear water?Mac's view is unambiguous: in low, clear conditions — especially late in the DH season when fish have been seeing indicators for weeks — suspension devices hurt your results more than they help. He prefers a longer leader setup, tracking the nail knot or line end visually, and fishing emerger patterns just an inch or two under the film. The mechanics of detecting a subtle take watching the line end are no different from detecting takes when tight-line nymphing subsurface. Marvin adds that marking the leader with foam indicators or competition wax gives less experienced anglers a visual reference without the wake and shadow of a traditional indicator.What is the "sacrificial fly" system for small dry fly fishing?The idea is to rig a large, highly visible attractor — a Parachute Adams, Elk Hair Caddis or Stimulator — with a small dry fly (size 18–20 or smaller) trailed 12–14 inches behind it. The big fly never gets eaten by selective fish; it simply anchors your eye to where the small fly roughly is. When a fish rises anywhere near the attractor's position, lift — hook sets are free. Mac notes that after hundreds of drifts through the same run, not one fish ate the big fly, but many took the small trailer. It functions as training wheels for anglers who aren't yet comfortable tracking a size 20 dry without a reference point.How do I adjust fly placement between dropper and point position when nymphing small nymphs?Mac adjusts this through the day based on where he believes fish are holding and feeding. Early in the morning when fish are likely still deeper, he puts the small fly on the point so it sinks further. As conditions warm and light increases — and as fish move toward emerging insect activity — he moves the small fly up to the dropper position, higher in the water column to intercept fish feeding near the surface. This single rig adjustment tracks fish behavior as the day progresses without changing the entire setup.What are current Tuckasegee River conditions and how long does the delayed harvest season last?Recorded approximately 10–11 days into May, this episode describes the Tuck running at roughly 400–500 cfs — significantly below its seasonal average of 1,600–1,800 cfs. Recent rainfall and cooler overnight temperatures (upper 30s) are providing relief. DH fish remain in the water until the first Saturday of June, giving anglers roughly three weeks from the recording date to target them. A fresh stocking round has been completed, so both new fish and conditioned holdovers are present simultaneously.Related ContentS8, Ep 25: The Science of Stealth: Mac Brown on Fishing Techniques for Low Flow ScenariosS7, Ep 88: Low Water, Big Adjustments: Mac Brown's Essential Tips for Fall Fishing SuccessS7, Ep 41: Navigating High Water: Strategies for Success with Mac BrownS7, Ep 28: Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownS6, Ep 145: Navigating Winter Waters: Unconventional Strategies with Mac BrownConnect with Our GuestFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow the ShowFollow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and YouTube.Follow our Substack newsletter for episode updates, tips and resources.Support the ShowShop through our Amazon link to support the podcast.Join our Patreon community to support the show.If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about...

Episode OverviewIn this Casting Angles segment of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash and Master Casting Instructor Mac Brown discuss how to adapt when an unusually warm, drought-driven spring upends normal seasonal fishing expectations across the mid-Atlantic and Southern Appalachians. It's a candid, practical conversation for anglers dealing with conditions that have scrambled hatches, compressed water temps and pushed trout into summerlike stress months early.Mac reports water temperatures in the mid-70s in Bryson City during mid-April — historically a July scenario — with corresponding low water on Western North Carolina freestone streams, including the Davidson River near Brevard where water temps were nudging the upper 60s. The practical takeaway from the conversation is concrete: when freestone streams become untenable, seek out tailwater fisheries with reliably cold, dam-regulated flows, and adjust fly selection dramatically — in this case dropping to size 28 Blue Wing Olives in April, a fly more commonly associated with winter midge-style fishing on the South Holston, after typical spring hatches like March Browns and Hendricksons failed to materialize. Mac and Marvin also encourage listeners to make a gear shift altogether when trout conditions are compromised, pivoting to panfish and bass on local ponds and lakes. The philosophical throughline is the classic fishing truism both hosts return to: you can only take what the river is willing to give you.Key TakeawaysHow to identify when warming freestone streams have become too stressful for trout and it's time to shift to tailwaters or alternative species.Why size 28 Blue Wing Olives can be the correct spring fly choice during drought years when conventional late-spring hatches like March Browns and Hendricksons fail to appear on schedule.When traditional spring trout fishing is compromised, how pivoting early to bass and panfish on local ponds offers a productive and accessible alternative.Why monitoring water temperature — not just visual stream conditions — is the most reliable guide to where trout will be feeding during abnormally warm spring weather.Techniques & Gear CoveredThe episode's most concrete tactical moment comes from Mac's report of fishing a size 28 Blue Wing Olive during a late-April outing — a winter-style presentation typically reserved for midge-focused tailwater days on rivers like the South Holston — after spotting a pod of actively feeding fish with no significant spring hatches in the air. No March Browns, no Hendricksons: just a tiny blue-winged olive and a size 28 pattern to match it. Beyond that single hatch-matching scenario, the tactical discussion centers on the broader decision-making framework of reading water temperature as a leading indicator, targeting the cold-water refuge of tailwaters when freestone streams become thermal and knowing when conditions call for switching species entirely rather than forcing trout fishing in compromised water.Locations & SpeciesThe conversation covers Western North Carolina freestone streams, including the Davidson River near Brevard and the waters around Bryson City, where mid-April temperatures had reached summerlike levels and flows were running at roughly a third to a half of seasonal norms across much of the mid-Atlantic. Mac points listeners toward tailwaters fed by large impoundments — specifically the fisheries below Fontana Dam, and waters like Cheoah and Calderwood — as cold-water refuges where trout will continue feeding more normally regardless of ambient air temperatures. Marvin references the South Holston and Watauga as additional tailwater options for Tennessee and Western NC anglers, with a caveat about reported turbine maintenance on the South Holston at the time of recording. Brown and rainbow trout are the primary targets throughout, with a passing acknowledgment that the abnormally warm March also disrupted pre-spawn smallmouth bass patterns in Virginia and the Carolinas.FAQ / Key Questions AnsweredHow warm is too warm for spring trout fishing on freestone streams?Mac and Marvin both flag water temperatures in the upper 60s as the threshold where trout fishing on freestone streams becomes unproductive and stressful for fish. The Davidson River near Brevard hit those temperatures in mid-April during this unusual spring — a full two months earlier than the July conditions those readings would normally indicate.What fly should you use when spring hatches don't materialize on schedule?Mac's answer from this episode: revert to winter-game logic. When he found a pod of working fish in late April with no March Browns or Hendricksons in the air, a size 28 Blue Wing Olive — the same pattern he'd fish on a winter day on the South Holston — turned out to be the correct call.Why are tailwaters the best alternative when freestone streams get too warm?Dam-regulated tailwaters draw from cold reservoir depths, maintaining stable water temperatures even when air temperatures are unseasonably high. Mac specifically mentions the fisheries below Fontana Dam — Cheoah and Calderwood — as reliable cold-water options when surrounding freestone streams become too warm to fish effectively.What should trout anglers do when neither the water temperature nor the hatches are cooperating?Both Mac and Marvin recommend the species shift: get out early on the panfish and bass season. Ponds and lakes close to home offer productive topwater and popper fishing for bass and bluegill when trout streams are off the table, and the change of scenery often produces fish when the usual spring program simply isn't available.Related ContentS8, Ep 25 – The Science of Stealth: Mac Brown on Fishing Techniques for Low Flow ScenariosS8, Ep 21 – Casting into Spring: Mac Brown Discusses Wild Trout Fishing and Upcoming ClassesS7, Ep 28 – Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownS6, Ep 145 – Navigating Winter Waters: Unconventional Strategies with Mac BrownConnect with Our GuestFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow the ShowFollow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and YouTube.Follow our Substack newsletter for episode updates, tips and resources.Support the ShowShop through our Amazon link to support the podcast.Join our Patreon community to support the show.If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our consulting options.Subscribe & AdvertiseSubscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast app.Think our community is a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.

Episode OverviewIn this Casting Angles episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash and Mac Brown of Mac Brown Fly Fish cover the spring fishing picture in western North Carolina just ahead of the Easter and spring break rush. The conversation is a candid, practical guide for anglers planning a trip to the region — with an honest assessment of current stocking conditions on delayed harvest water and a strong case for pursuing wild trout in the backcountry instead.Mac and Marvin address a notable stocking reduction on western North Carolina's delayed harvest (DH) water, with Mac reporting no stocking through March and a planned 60% reduction going forward — a ground-level reality check against the rosier picture often circulating on social media. The Nantahala River, which holds a large year-round fish population and most of the state's trout records, is identified as a productive alternative once hatchery-supported waters open in early April. For anglers willing to go further afield, the wild streams of Great Smoky Mountains National Park are described as fishing in peak spring form, with little black caddis hatches actively occurring, Quill Gordons already coming off, and Hendricksons and March Browns on the near horizon. Mac and Marvin both advocate for dry-dropper rigs — specifically an elk hair caddis or Stimulator as the dry with a soft hackle pheasant tail as the dropper — as the most effective and versatile approach for this time of year, targeting fish feeding actively in the surface film and mid-column rather than on the bottom.Mac also updates listeners on his guide school schedule, including an Advanced Line Control casting school on April 11–12.Key TakeawaysWhy wild trout streams in western North Carolina and Great Smoky Mountains National Park offer better spring fishing than stocked delayed harvest water during the spring break periodHow a dry-dropper rig — elk hair caddis or Stimulator over a soft hackle pheasant tail — covers both the surface film and mid-column where spring trout are actively feedingWhy fishing the "tabletop" (surface) rather than dredging the bottom is the more productive approach on western NC wild streams this time of yearWhen to expect the spring hatch progression in western North Carolina: little black caddis now, followed by Hendricksons and March Browns, with terrestrials taking over by early summerHow to interpret hatchery-supported water signage and adjust fly selection — toward attractor and "junk food" patterns — when fishing freshly stocked Nantahala water after it opens in early AprilTechniques & Gear CoveredThe primary technique emphasis is dry-dropper fishing for wild trout on freestone mountain streams, with both Mac and Marvin endorsing it as the most versatile approach for early spring in western North Carolina. Mac frames the key tactical principle as targeting the "tabletop" — the surface film — rather than bottom-dredging, which he identifies as a common mistake that costs anglers hours of productive fishing. Specific patterns discussed include the elk hair caddis and Stimulator as the dry fly component, and a soft hackle pheasant tail as the dropper, with Marvin noting he particularly enjoys fishing soft hackles in the mid-column on the swing or drift. For hatchery-supported water on the Nantahala after it opens, both hosts note that recently stocked fish respond best to attractor and "junk food" patterns — worms, eggs and high-visibility flies — consistent with the behavior of fish transitioning out of a hatchery environment.Locations & SpeciesThe episode focuses on the western North Carolina trout fishing corridor centered on Bryson City and the surrounding national park backcountry, with Great Smoky Mountains National Park wild trout streams serving as the primary destination recommendation for visiting anglers. The Nantahala River is highlighted as the region's premier hatchery-supported fishery — holding fish year-round and producing most of the state's trout records — with its hatchery-supported sections opening in early April after the March closure period. Wild trout in GSMNP backcountry streams are the target species throughout, with fish actively looking up and responding to dry flies under spring conditions.FAQ / Key Questions AnsweredWhy should I fish wild trout streams instead of delayed harvest water during spring break in western North Carolina?Mac Brown reports that DH water on the delayed harvest sections received no stocking through March and faces a 60% reduction in planned stocking going forward — meaning heavily fished DH beats likely hold only fish stocked the previous October. Wild trout streams in the Park, by contrast, are in excellent spring condition with active hatches and fish looking up, making them a far more productive and rewarding destination for the spring break window.How should I fish the Nantahala hatchery-supported water when it opens in early April?The Nantahala hatchery-supported sections open in early April after a March closure period. Freshly stocked fish behave like aquarium fish — unselective and responsive to attractor patterns, worms, eggs and high-visibility "junk food" flies rather than technical presentations. Marvin compares it directly to fishing freshly stocked delayed harvest water, so adjust expectations and fly selection accordingly.What dry-dropper setup works best for spring wild trout fishing in western North Carolina?Both Mac and Marvin recommend an elk hair caddis or Stimulator as the dry with a soft hackle pheasant tail as the dropper — a versatile rig that covers surface and mid-column feeding simultaneously. Marvin notes the soft hackle pheasant tail is particularly effective fished in the mid-column, where it can swing or drift naturally on the dropper.What hatches should I expect on western North Carolina trout streams in early spring?Little black caddis are hatching heavily right now and should continue for several more weeks. Quill Gordons have already been observed, with Hendricksons and March Browns coming next. The hatch season progresses quickly — by early summer, terrestrials largely replace mayfly and caddis hatches as the primary dry fly opportunity.When is the best time of day and under what conditions should I focus on dry fly fishing this time of year?Mac reports that overcast conditions are ideal for dry fly fishing on GSMNP wild trout streams in early spring, with fish actively looking up throughout the day under cloud cover. He notes that during a recent pre-school scouting session in the backcountry, dry flies alone were sufficient — fish showed no need for sub-surface presentation.Related ContentS7, Ep 28 – Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownS6, Ep 36 – Mac Brown's Spring Hatch Hacks and Windy Day TacticsS6, Ep 39 – Mac Brown's High Country Hideaways and Warm Water WisdomS7, Ep 85 – Navigating Delayed Harvest: Mac Brown's Insights on Fall Fishing TacticsS8, Ep 18 – The Learning Curve: Mac Brown on Effective Teaching MethodsConnect with Our GuestFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow the ShowFollow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and YouTube.Follow our Substack newsletter for episode updates, tips and resources.Support the ShowShop through our Amazon link to support the podcast.Join our Patreon community to support the show.If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our

Episode OverviewIn this Casting Angles episode of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash and Master Casting Instructor Mac Brown close out the fly fishing show season with a candid debrief on what happens after students leave the classroom. Recorded immediately after both Marvin and Mac wrapped up their teaching schedules at the Lancaster Fly Fishing Show — the final show of the year — the conversation digs into one of the most practical and underexplored questions in fly fishing education: how do you structure a class so students can actually keep improving on their own once they leave? Mac Brown, owner of Mac Brown Fly Fish in Bryson City, North Carolina, and a Master Casting Instructor through Fly Fishers International, draws on decades of coaching experience and current sports physiology research to frame the core tension between teaching to immediate performance versus teaching for long-term self-correction. The episode explores how video on smartphones has transformed what's possible in a single class session, why saturation happens faster than most instructors expect during hands-on practice, and how foundational mechanics — particularly the elbow drop and correct arm path — give students a reliable framework to diagnose and fix their own casting long after the lesson ends. Mac also previews his spring guide school season starting in late March in Bryson City, making this a timely listen for anyone considering casting instruction before the season ramps up.Key TakeawaysHow to structure a casting class so students leave with both foundational understanding and the self-correction tools to keep improving independently.Why teaching entirely to immediate performance — without covering the underlying mechanics — leaves students unable to troubleshoot when their casting breaks down.How using smartphone video during a lesson gives students a concrete reference point so they know exactly what to look for when they practice at home.Why 15 to 20 minute practice sessions, repeated several times a week, produce better results than long, unfocused practice blocks that lead to early saturation.How the elbow drop and correct arm path mechanics — grounded in 160-plus years of casting science — deliver a measurable, immediately felt difference in loop speed and efficiency that converts skeptical students on the spot.Techniques & Gear CoveredThis episode is focused entirely on casting instruction methodology rather than on-water tactics, so there are no fly patterns or gear brands discussed. The core technical concept Mac returns to throughout the conversation is the relationship between arm path and loop quality: when casters move the rod hand horizontally straight forward — essentially throwing like a shot put — they generate far less line speed than when the elbow drops and the rod tip travels on a proper path. Mac uses a practical field demonstration to make this concrete, counting out a slow, soft cast aloud (1001-1002-1003-1004) and contrasting it with the sub-half-second delivery produced by the elbow drop, then asking students which loop they'd want in a 30-knot Belize or Montana wind. Beyond the mechanics, Marvin and Mac discuss a drill-based curriculum structure — roughly six drills covering power, pause and path — that students can work through in short, focused practice sessions using their phone cameras for feedback. The broader instructional philosophy draws on contemporary coaching literature, including Nick Winkelman's language-of-coaching framework, and aligns with what Mac and Gary Borger have implemented in their all-day casting classes.FAQ / Key Questions AnsweredWhy shouldn't a casting instructor just focus on getting students casting as quickly as possible?Mac Brown explains that while pure performance-based teaching can produce fast results in a demo context — like getting a kid casting 40 feet with tight loops in two minutes — it leaves students with no conceptual framework to fall back on when their casting starts to deteriorate. Without understanding the underlying mechanics, they have no idea what to change, and they end up needing to return for the same lesson repeatedly rather than progressing independently.How do you use smartphone video effectively in a casting lesson?Mac Brown and Marvin both emphasize that students should use their phones to film the instructor demonstrating the correct movement. The key is that students leave the class knowing exactly what they're looking for — and having footage of it. Without that reference, independent practice becomes guesswork.How much hands-on practice time should be in a casting class versus instruction?Marvin notes that students reach a saturation point with hands-on practice faster than most instructors expect. He describes his introductory class as roughly 75% classroom and 25% hands-on. The goal is not to have students perfect every skill in class, but to build enough intellectual understanding that they can drill efficiently on their own — ideally in short 15 to 20 minute practice sessions several times a week rather than long, unfocused blocks.What is the elbow drop, and why does it matter so much?The elbow drop is a fundamental casting mechanic in which the caster's elbow descends during the stroke rather than tracking horizontally straight ahead. Mac demonstrates its impact by comparing two identical 40-foot casts: one made with a horizontal hand path, which takes several seconds for the line to turn over, and one made with the elbow drop, which delivers the line in under half a second. He uses the contrast as both a diagnostic tool and a conversion moment — once students feel the speed differential for themselves, they are immediately motivated to change their mechanics.When does Mac Brown's spring guide school season start in Bryson City?Mac's first guide school of the spring is scheduled for March 25, with additional two-day and three-day schools running through April and beyond. He also teaches private casting lessons and guides as the season ramps up. The best way to reach him is through macbrownflyfish.com, where his full schedule and contact information are listed.Related ContentS7, Ep 16 – Simplifying Complexity: Effective Teaching Strategies in Fly Fishing with Mac BrownS7, Ep 20 – Practice Makes Perfect: Mac Brown on Mastering Casting TechniquesS7, Ep 28 – Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownS7, Ep 41 – Navigating High Water: Strategies for Success with Mac BrownConnect with Our GuestFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow the ShowFollow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and YouTube.Follow our Substack newsletter for episode updates, tips and resources.Support the ShowShop through our Amazon link to support the podcast.Join our Patreon community to support the show.If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our consulting options.Subscribe & Advertise

Experience the incredible power of physical and spiritual healing in this powerful Season 4 episode of the Lebanon House of Prayer Podcast.In this episode, we are joined by Gary and Janet Kolb, founders of Feed My Sheep Ministry in Bryson City, North Carolina. After retiring from their secular careers, the Kolbs found a new calling: feeding the hungry and sharing the Gospel in the Smoky Mountains.Janet shares a breathtaking testimony of a miracle that took place during The Behold Conference. After living with a 57-degree curve in her spine from scoliosis for 50 years, Janet arrived at the conference in agonizing pain. Watch as she describes the moment the Holy Spirit met her during a Friday morning prayer session and the confidence that led to her miraculous transformation.In this episode, we discuss:-The transition from retirement to "re-firing" for the Kingdom.-The work of Feed My Sheep Ministry in North Carolina.-A 50-year battle with scoliosis and the power of persistent prayer.-The atmosphere of faith at The Behold Conference.

Episode OverviewIn this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash sits down with Master Casting Instructor Mac Brown for another installment of Casting Angles — a wide-ranging conversation on the philosophy of continuous improvement in fly fishing and fly casting. Recorded just before the Lancaster Fly Fishing Show, the episode centers on one of the most practical yet underappreciated principles in skill development: approaching your craft with a beginner's mind, no matter how many years you've been on the water. Mac draws on feedback from students at recent west coast events — including anglers with 30 to 40 years of experience who received their first structured casting instruction — to illustrate how long-held assumptions can silently ceiling growth. The conversation touches on Mac's "four stages of learning" framework, the infinite circle of knowledge and the parallels between fly casting mastery and elite performance in any discipline. Practical spring fishing news also surfaces in the second half: listeners get actionable intel on early-season Quill Gordon dry fly hatches on wild Appalachian freestone streams, the ideal nymph sizing window as hatches begin (sizes 12–16) and emerging activity of little black stones and blue winged olives on Tennessee tailwaters. Mac and Marvin also preview their respective Lancaster show appearances and detail upcoming guide schools and casting classes at macbrownflyfish.com for anglers planning their spring season.Key TakeawaysHow adopting a beginner's mindset — staying open to new information regardless of experience level — is the single most reliable driver of improvement in fly casting and fishing.Why intermediate anglers stagnate: the false belief that years of time on the water equates to skill development, which shuts down active learning before it can happen.How Mac's four stages of learning framework maps the path from novice to expert, and why most anglers get stuck at stage two.When Quill Gordon dry fly hatches arrive on wild Appalachian freestone streams, they represent one of the season's best dry fly windows because the adult floats for 15–20 minutes while hardening its wings.Why early-season nymphs (sizes 12–14) are as large as they'll be all year, making this the optimal window to fish bigger nymph patterns before successive hatches progressively reduce insect size.How structured instruction — rather than YouTube, books or show demos alone — accelerates skill acquisition in ways self-directed learning rarely can.Techniques & Gear CoveredThe episode is primarily instructional and conceptual rather than gear-heavy, but several practical fishing frameworks emerge. Mac references his own book Casting Angles — a fly casting handbook endorsed by the ACA and FFI — as the source material for the four stages of learning discussion, and directs listeners to the article on his website for a deeper read. The conversation touches on the comparative limitations of self-directed learning via YouTube and books versus structured in-person instruction, particularly for developing proper casting mechanics. On the dry fly fishing side, Mac recommends dry fly presentations targeting Quill Gordons on freestone streams in size 12, with the extended float window (15–20 minutes) making these hatches unusually productive for surface takes. Marvin notes that pairing size 14 and 16 nymphs during this same early-season window takes advantage of the year's largest nymph profiles before they diminish through the season. Mac also promotes two-day casting schools through macbrownflyfish.com as the highest-value instructional investment for anglers who want to advance their skills heading into spring.Locations & SpeciesThe episode references wild freestone streams in the Western North Carolina / Great Smoky Mountains region — Mac's home water around Bryson City — as the primary context for the early Quill Gordon hatch discussion, with these streams producing active trout as water temperatures begin to rise. Tennessee tailwaters are also noted as waters where little black stoneflies and blue winged olives are already appearing, signaling the beginning of productive surface-feeding windows. The target species throughout is wild trout, with Mac's commentary on Quill Gordon hatches specifically framed around waking large fish that have been dormant through winter. The seasonal framing is early spring, a transition period characterized by warming daytime temperatures, emerging hatches and increasingly active trout — one of the most productive dry fly windows of the year in the Southern Appalachians.FAQ / Key Questions AnsweredHow does a beginner's mindset improve fly casting and fishing skills?Beginners enter instruction with no preconceptions to dismantle, which makes them highly receptive to new technique and feedback. Mac argues that anglers who believe they are already proficient — after years of fishing without formal instruction — unknowingly stop absorbing new information, effectively stalling their development at the intermediate stage.What are the four stages of learning in fly casting?Mac's framework progresses from stage one (open absorption of fundamentals) through stage two (recognizing a problem exists but not knowing how to fix it — where most intermediate anglers stall) to stages three and four, where skills become internalized and self-correcting. He recommends reading the full article on his website for a detailed breakdown of each stage.When is the Quill Gordon hatch and why is it such a good dry fly opportunity?The Quill Gordon is an early-season mayfly that emerges on wild Appalachian freestone streams, typically before most other major hatches of the year. The adults float on the surface for 15–20 minutes while hardening their wings — an unusually long window that gives trout ample time to key on them and gives anglers sustained dry fly fishing action. Size 12 patterns are appropriate at peak emergence.Why should anglers fish larger nymph patterns in early spring?Nymph size follows a seasonal arc: early in the year, aquatic insects are at or near maximum size before the first hatches reduce their populations and successive generations emerge progressively smaller. Sizes 14 and 16 are particularly effective in this early window, as they match the naturals more accurately than the smaller patterns that will dominate later in the season.What does Mac Brown recommend for anglers who want to improve most efficiently?Mac consistently points to in-person structured instruction — particularly his two-day casting school — as the highest-leverage investment for improvement. He contrasts this with YouTube and book-based learning, which lack the real-time feedback loop required to correct ingrained errors and build proper mechanics into muscle memory.Related ContentS7, Ep 16 - Simplifying Complexity: Effective Teaching Strategies in Fly Fishing with Mac BrownS7, Ep 20 - Practice Makes Perfect: Mac Brown on Mastering Casting TechniquesS7, Ep 28 - Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownS6, Ep 10 - Casting Angles with Mac BrownS6, Ep 141 - Mastering Cold Weather Fly Fishing with Mac BrownConnect with Our GuestFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow the ShowFollow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram,

Locals call it “The Road to Nowhere,” but its official name is Lakeview Drive. It’s a scenic six-mile stretch overlooking Fontana Lake in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park near Bryson City, North Carolina. After the road goes through a 1200-foot-long tunnel blasted out of a granite mountainside, it abruptly stops. The government spent millions of dollars until environmental concerns discovered later ended the project. Jesus, who was a carpenter by trade, once told a construction parable about counting the cost of following Him. “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower,” He asked. “Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it?” (Luke 14:28). Another parable follows about a king who considers the cost of going to war, and it makes the same point. Speaking to the “large crowds . . . traveling” with Him (v. 25), Jesus wanted them to understand that there was a cost to sincerely believing in and following Him. Following Jesus only because of what He can do for us is a “road to nowhere.” But following Him for Him—turning daily from sin and self-focus to live for Him and His kingdom (carrying our “cross,” as He put it in v. 27)—changes everything. The cost must be counted. But He’s worth it.

In this episode of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash connects with Mac Brown from Mac Brown Fly Fish in Bryson City, North Carolina, for another Casting Angles segment exploring an often-overlooked winter fishing strategy: dry fly fishing in cold weather conditions. Mac reveals why winter dry fly fishing deserves more attention, particularly in the Great Smoky Mountains where low, clear water and selective trout make stealth presentations with dries surprisingly effective. The discussion covers critical winter hatches including midges, blue wing olives and October caddis, with Mac emphasizing that BWOs in the Smokies are exceptionally small—requiring size 30 patterns for selective fish rather than the typical size 18 parachutes many anglers default to. Both anglers share insights on dry dropper techniques for precision nymphing in skinny winter water, explaining how light rigs allow far more accurate presentations than indicator setups when targeting specific fish. Mac reflects on how his most memorable catches throughout his guiding career have come on dry flies during fall and winter, challenging the modern trend toward nymph-only approaches. The conversation also touches on late-winter black stonefly hatches and Mac's upcoming 2026 fly fishing show schedule including Boston, Edison, Denver, Bellevue, Pleasanton and Lancaster.Related ContentS7, Ep 28 - Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownS6, Ep 130 - Casting in Color: Mac Brown's Fall Fly Fishing StrategiesS6, Ep 141 - Mastering Cold Weather Fly Fishing with Mac BrownS6, Ep 145 - Navigating Winter Waters: Unconventional Strategies with Mac BrownAll Things Social MediaFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.Support the Show Shop on AmazonBecome a Patreon PatronSubscribe to the PodcastSubscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.Advertise on the PodcastIs our community a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.In the

What happens when a North Carolina hunter recovering from injury uses the forest as therapy — and finds something waiting for him in the woods? In this gripping episode, we speak with Scott, a lifelong outdoorsman with multiple terrifying encounters across North Carolina. From a fog-shrouded trail in Uwharrie where something massive landed behind him, to eerie switchbacks in Crowder's Mountain State Park, and finally to a yurt near Bryson City where something stood outside the tent... clicking its teeth. You'll hear about invisible giants, ripped-up boulders, missing forest sounds, and the primal fear that still haunts him. This isn't just about Bigfoot — it's about what happens when the forest looks back. Featuring locations like Uwharrie, Clingman's Dome, Crowder's Mountain, and more, this episode is a must-listen for anyone who's ever felt followed in the woods.

On this episode of Speaking of Travel, we're joined by Colin McBeath, President of the Nantahala Outdoor Center, to talk about the magic of the outdoors and the power of travel to connect us all. With more than 30 years leading hospitality and resort operations around the world, Colin shares his heartfelt perspective on how tourism brings communities together, helps us recover and grow, and invites us to embrace adventure in our everyday lives.We talk about the importance of partnerships, the evolving world of outdoor recreation, and the simple yet profound joy of stepping outside and experiencing nature. Colin's stories remind us that travel and time outdoors aren't just about destinations.Spending time in nature with the people we love is one of life's greatest gifts. Whether it's a family hike, paddling a river, or simply sitting under the stars, these shared adventures create memories that last forever.Tune in for an uplifting conversation full of insights and encouragement to live with a spirit of adventure along with a fresh perspective on travel, recreation, and the world around us.Only on Speaking of Travel! Tune in. Thanks for listening to Speaking of Travel! Visit speakingoftravel.net for travel tips, travel stories, and ways you can become a more savvy traveler.

Join Marvin Cash on The Articulate Fly for another Casting Angles segment with expert instructor Mac Brown, where they explore the path from basic technique to true casting mastery. Brown, a renowned fly fishing guide and casting instructor from Bryson City, North Carolina, brings decades of teaching experience to discuss the four stages of learning that transform mechanical casting into effortless, flow-state performance.Perfect timing for the post-Labor Day transition period, this episode dives into advanced line control techniques, kinesthetic learning approaches and why skill retention matters more than flashy one-time performance. Brown reveals how understanding the "why" behind casting mechanics eliminates performance anxiety and joint freezing, while his progressive teaching method ensures anglers build consistency before advancing to the next skill level. Learn about curve casts, double haul variations and systematic approaches to building a complete arsenal of casting techniques that utilize different airspaces for varying water conditions and obstacles. Brown emphasizes why mastering multiple line control methods prepares anglers for real fishing situations when trees and cover block traditional casting lanes. With fall fishing opportunities ahead in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park and delayed harvest stocking beginning in October, this episode provides essential preparation for anglers ready to elevate their casting from basic competence to confident mastery on the water.Related ContentS7, Ep 20 - Practice Makes Perfect: Mac Brown on Mastering Casting TechniquesS7, Ep 16 - Simplifying Complexity: Effective Teaching Strategies in Fly Fishing with Mac BrownS6, Ep 10 - Casting Angles with Mac BrownS7, Ep 28 - Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac BrownAll Things Social MediaFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.Support the Show Shop on AmazonBecome a Patreon PatronSubscribe to the PodcastSubscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.Advertise on the PodcastIs our community a good

In this compelling episode of The Articulate Fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash teams up with renowned guide and instructor Mac Brown for another insightful Casting Angles segment focused on high water fishing strategies in the Great Smoky Mountains. Mac, who lives on Deep Creek in Bryson City and has been guiding Appalachian waters since the 1980s, reveals why experienced anglers should flip conventional wisdom during big rain events and head to lower elevations rather than seeking high mountain streams. Learn how massive brown trout emerge from hiding during flash flood conditions, creating feeding frenzies that represent some of the best fishing opportunities in Appalachia. Mac shares specific streamer fishing techniques including his go-to Black Ghost pattern, the importance of color contrast in turbid water and why upsizing flies becomes critical during high water events. Discover proven bank fishing tactics using jig hooks for fast-moving water, plus Mac's upcoming fall instructional offerings including his September advanced casting school, October guide school and a special wet fly fishing workshop with legendary angler Davy Wotton on Arkansas' White River - where Mac first learned to fly fish as a child.All Things Social MediaFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.Support the Show Shop on AmazonBecome a Patreon PatronSubscribe to the PodcastSubscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.Advertise on the PodcastIs our community a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.In the Industry and Need Help Getting Unstuck?Check out our consulting options!

In this episode, we're sharing our experience at the Nantahala Outdoor Center (NOC) in Bryson City, NC, where we spent a few days hiking, rafting, cozying up in the rain, and finding that perfect mix of stillness and adventure.We stayed in a treetop bungalow at The Hemlocks at NOC, explored a small portion of the Appalachian Trail, got soaked on a ducky trip, skipped mountain biking in favor of rest, and left with full hearts and sore legs.Whether you're looking for your next getaway or just need a reminder to slow down and breathe, we've got you.

In this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash reconnects with Mac Brown for the first Casting Angles of 2025. Broadcasting remotely from Mexico, Mac shares his experiences of enjoying the warm climate before heading back to the snowy weather of the U.S. The discussion shifts to New Year resolutions, focusing on enhancing fly fishing and fly tying skills. Mac emphasizes the importance of investing in oneself, suggesting that anglers should set specific and measurable goals to improve their skills, such as casting accuracy in challenging conditions.Marvin and Mac highlight the value of attending fly fishing shows and building relationships with seasoned instructors to aid in skill development. As Mac prepares for a busy show circuit, he outlines his schedule, which includes stops at Marlborough, Edison and Lancaster, as well as local events in Bryson City. Listeners are encouraged to visit Mac's website for more information on casting classes, guide schools and event dates.Marvin wraps up by wishing everyone a Happy New Year and invites listeners to catch up with him at the Denver and Bobbin' the Hood shows. As always, he encourages everyone to embrace the season and get out on the water when possible. Tight lines!All Things Social MediaFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.Support the Show Shop on AmazonBecome a Patreon PatronSubscribe to the PodcastSubscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.Advertise on the PodcastIs our community a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.In the Industry and Need Help Getting Unstuck?Check out our consulting options!

Explore the strength and unity of Bryson City, North Carolina, as Erin Smith, owner of Humanité Boutique, shares her journey as a small business owner during challenging times. Learn how the community came together after Hurricane Helene, the lessons that shaped their recovery, and the impact of supporting one another. Erin's story reveals the importance of connection, resilience, and creating a meaningful legacy, all set against the backdrop of Bryson City's natural beauty and holiday charm.

Send us a textBryson City, NC, is a mountain town in Western North Carolina that blends resilience, community spirit, and festive traditions. In this episode, Sarah Conley, Executive Director of the Swain County TDA, shares how Bryson City navigated the aftermath of Hurricane Helene. From using social media to keep residents informed to preparing for winter visitors, the town demonstrates its strength and ability to adapt in every situation.As the holiday season approaches, Bryson City transforms into a cozy winter retreat. Highlights include the Polar Express train ride, a family favorite that brings holiday stories to life, and the dazzling Christmas Light Spectacular that lights up the town. Visitors can enjoy warm hospitality, stunning mountain views, and countless opportunities to make unforgettable holiday memories.This episode dives into what makes Bryson City truly special—its resilience, holiday magic, and the way it welcomes visitors with open arms, no matter the season.https://www.explorebrysoncity.com/

In this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash connects with Mac Brown to discuss the unique challenges and joys of fall fly fishing in the Bryson City area. As the peak of fall foliage passes, Mac shares his insights on navigating the leaf litter that can deter anglers during this season. He emphasizes the effectiveness of using dry flies, particularly with orange hues, to avoid snagging leaves and offers a technique called the "circle pickup" to keep your fly clean.Mac and Marvin delve into the seasonal changes, from the colorful landscapes to the importance of safety and preparedness when wading in unfamiliar waters. They discuss the benefits of carrying a wading staff and having a survival kit on hand, especially as temperatures drop.Looking ahead, Mac is gearing up for a trip to Arkansas, where he'll reunite with fellow angler Davy Wotton for some fishing and possibly upland bird hunting. He also previews his busy schedule of fly fishing shows, including appearances at the Great Waters Fly Fishing Expo and various Fly Fishing Shows, where he'll be teaching alongside notable instructors like Gary Borger.Listeners are encouraged to embrace the fall fishing opportunities before winter sets in and reminded to check out the class signups for the upcoming shows. Tight lines, everyone!All Things Social MediaFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.Support the Show Shop on AmazonBecome a Patreon PatronSubscribe to the PodcastSubscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.Advertise on the PodcastIs our community a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.In the Industry and Need Help Getting Unstuck?Check out our consulting options!

Thanks to Bryson City, NC for sponsoring this episode. Plan your trip today! https://www.explorebrysoncity.com/ In this episode, Chris and Sara take you on a journey through some of America's most charming and lesser-known small mountain towns. These hidden gems offer unique experiences, breathtaking views, and a slower pace of life, perfect for travelers seeking adventure and tranquility. Chris and Sara share their personal experiences and tips for making the most of your visit to these enchanting destinations, highlighting what makes each town unique and worth exploring. Whether you're a seasoned traveler or just looking for a new escape, you'll find a small town right for you. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/chris-and-sara/support

Thanks to Bryson City, NC, for sponsoring this episode. Plan your trip today! https://www.explorebrysoncity.com/ In this episode, Chris and Sara sit down with Chris and Ellen, a husband-and-wife duo from Asheville, North Carolina, to discuss their unique approach to travel through house-sitting. Chris and Ellen share their journey from traditional living to exploring the world by caring for homes and pets across various countries. They recount their experiences staying in luxurious locations like chateaus in France and vineyards in Tuscany, along with the challenges and rewards of their lifestyle. Follow Chris and Ellen: YouTube:  https://youtube.com/ChrisandEllen  Instagram: https://instagram.com/chrisandellen Website: https://chrisandellen.com You'll Learn How Chris and Ellen transitioned to a lifestyle of house-sitting and travel. The benefits and challenges of house-sitting, including staying in luxury locations. Insights into managing remote work while exploring new places. Tips for becoming a successful house sitter and finding the best gigs. Highlights of Chris and Ellen's travels, including their upcoming trip to the Paris 2024 Olympics. Practical advice for those interested in house-sitting as a way to travel affordably. Today's Guests Chris and Ellen Chris and Ellen are travel content creators who document their house-sitting experiences across the globe. With a strong online presence, they share their adventures and insights into the nomadic lifestyle, offering tips and stories about the unique places they've visited. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/chris-and-sara/support

NOTE: We recorded this episode in June 2022. Before posting it, two sudden and unexpected serious medical conditions, one after the other, derailed (pun intended) our plans to continue recording and posting new episodes. However, after two years, we are back! We thank God for His continued care for us and allowing us to do this podcast, which we love. Thank you for listening.Bryson City, North Carolina is “small town America,” packed with big outdoor fun. In this episode, Marc and Ann talk about their day trip to Bryson City to take the historic “1702” steam engine train roundtrip to Nantahala Outdoor Center.Listen as they describe the sights along the train route, the experience of riding and old-fashioned steam engine powered train, and visiting the train museum.My Smoky Mountain GuideGreat Smoky Mountains RailroadDillsboro Chocolate FactorySmoky Mountain Trains MuseumFly Fishing Museum of the Southern AppalachiansNantahala Outdoor CenterIron Wok

Traveling helps you make your everyday life less boring. Travel experiences ultimately become your passions. So why not try new things and get out and explore the world?On this episode of Speaking of Travel, Josie Vosoba, founder of Lavender and Vine, a business running small-group tours to France, is an artist who loves landscapes and botanical themes, many inspired by her annual trips to Provence, France. Josie shares why she loves taking artists to Provence to experience the wonder, excitement, and beauty she finds in nature.And discover beautiful Western North Carolina, another popular travel destination known for its Southern charm and some of the most ancient mountains in the world, by train. Dustin McNeely-Wall from the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad, fills us in on why this iconic attraction, with its rich history, sense of nature and community, and several special events throughout the year, has become a family tradition. Make your travel dreams come true and go explore! Tune in to Speaking of Travel and be carried away to places from around the world and right here in your own backyard.Thanks for listening to Speaking of Travel! Visit speakingoftravel.net for travel tips, travel stories, and ways you can become a more savvy traveler.

Join host Marvin Cash on The Articulate Fly for another engaging episode of Casting Angles with Mac Brown. Mac shares the excitement of his son's high school graduation and the family celebrations in Bryson City. Transitioning into summer, they discuss the end of the delayed harvest season in North Carolina and explore alternative fishing options. Mac offers valuable tips on targeting bream, smallmouth and catfish in farm ponds and rivers, highlighting the fun of catching catfish on dry flies.Mac also delves into the potential of cicada hatches and their impact on fishing, sharing anecdotes from his experiences and insights on using cicada patterns. The conversation shifts to practical advice on fishing poppers and streamers, emphasizing the effectiveness of smaller poppers and simple streamer patterns like woolly buggers and finesse changers.Whether you're planning your next fishing adventure or looking for expert advice, this episode is packed with valuable information and a few laughs. Tight lines!All Things Social MediaFollow Mac on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.Support the Show Shop on AmazonBecome a Patreon PatronSubscribe to the PodcastSubscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.Advertise on the PodcastIs our community a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.In the Industry and Need Help Getting Unstuck?Check out our consulting options!

Segment 3, February 10th, 2024 Many call Bryson City, NC, the Fly Fishing Capitol of the south. With 4 different rivers running into the area as well as Fontana lake, there's no better place to spend a day wading than Swain County. However, since 2019 there is more to do in Bryson City than just fly fish. The Fly Fishing Museum of the Southern Appalachians now plays host to an aquarium where you can view more than 50 species of freshwater fish, without the hassle of catching them first! Today, we take a closer look at what it took to bring the museum together, and what keeps people coming back. Alen Baker is the founder of The Fly Fishing Museum of the Southern Appalachians. Alen also helped rejuvenate the Rocky River Trout Unlimited Chapter in Charlotte, and recently joined Bill Bartee, host of the Carolina Outdoors to speak about the founding, development and history of the Museum and Aquarium in Bryson City. Things You'll Learn by Listening: Show Highlights: History of Fly Fishing- dating back to 10,000 BCE Regionality of Fly Fishing and what makes it special in the Southeast Potential development of a new museum in the western part of the country Baker has contributed all this to fly fishing in his retirement, after 34 years at Duke Energy Baker's Foundation of the Rocky River Chapter of Trout Unlimited, and joining the Hall of Fame What makes Bryson City so special for fly fishing The Carolina Outdoors is powered by the local, independent fly shop, Jesse Brown's.

Ever considered shrinking your living space for a simpler, more efficient life? Join us as we unfold the world of tiny homes, where innovation meets minimalist living. Discover the allure of these pint-sized dwellings from a captivating video that sparked our interest, to the practicality of their design for uses as diverse as project offices or quirky Airbnb rentals. We take you through the ins and outs of tiny home living in Western North Carolina, where the Asheville Triangle offers lush landscapes for these modern habitats. This episode is a treasure trove of insights into the safety, durability, and design aspects of tiny homes that bring in natural light and maximize space.Selling over 3,500 homes has taught me a thing or two about the real estate game, and I'm excited to share my stories and strategies with you. Get the scoop on our revolutionary Cash CPO offer that's changing the home selling landscape, providing sellers with a cash advance and covering the costs of crucial inspections and repairs. But that's just the tip of the iceberg – I peel back the curtain on the economic cycle's influence on the real estate market, the mixed emotions accompanying relocation, and the charm of North Carolina's climate that draws people to seek their 'forever homes' in this picturesque state.Putting a house on the market? Listen in for practical advice on navigating the real estate realm with confidence. We delve into the merits of pre-inspections and home warranties – think certified pre-owned vehicles but for houses – and how these strategies can pave the way for a smooth sale. For those with listings that just won't budge, we discuss simple yet effective upgrades that can breathe new life into your property's appeal. Plus, we tease the upcoming conversation about the innovative mobile tiny homes, offering a peek at the diverse housing options ranging from scenic multi-home properties to the unique Barn Dominiums of Bryson City. Join us for this episode, where we not only explore housing trends but provide actionable tips for sellers and buyers alike in the charming landscapes of Western North Carolina.

Show Notes: https://wetflyswing.com/553  Presented by: Skwala, Northern Rockies Adventures Sponsors: https://wetflyswing.com/sponsors    In this episode, we delve into fly fishing North Carolina with the seasoned pro, Mac Brown. With his experience in casting and teaching, Brown shares his knowledge on not only the techniques of fly casting and fishing but also its history and evolution throughout the years. Whether discussing his journey from the Ozarks to the Great Smoky Mountain National Park or unraveling the intricacies of fly casting, Brown's insights illuminate the art and sport of fly fishing. Read on for an insightful journey into the world of fly fishing with Mac Brown. Episode Chapters with Mac Brown on Fly FIshing North Carolina 1:30 - Mac shares how he started fly fishing as a kid with his grandfather. He was born in the Ozarks, and then eventually moved to Bryson City, North Carolina. 9:15 - He tells us what he loves about living in Bryson City, including the weather. 14:44 - He helped start the Delayed Harvest on the Nantahala River and the Tuckasegee River in the early nineties with the North Carolina Wildlife Resource Commission (NCWRC). 18:10 - We talk about the fishing techniques he uses in his area in North Carolina. 21:55 - He walks us through the activities they do in his guide school. 26:02 - He also does fishing shows. He mentions the upcoming shows he'll be attending to teach casting and tying classes. 33:18 - He gives valuable tips on casting. He also reflects on his experiences learning from some of the best fishers in the world, such as Jim Green and Gary Borger. With decades of teaching behind him, Mac emphasizes the importance of understanding casting techniques comprehensively and advises investing both in formal and informal learning experiences. 36:44 - He walks us through the game he and his kids play to master their casting. 39:43 - Mac recommends visiting the Fly Fishers International (FFI) website to find a casting instructor. 41:59 - He helps us understand the basics of casting and the importance of a proper casting technique. 44:39 - He talks about casting distance and teaching casting to kids. 48:34 - We dig into the role of acceleration in casting. He says casting is more of a timing game, not a muscle game. He also says that the biggest thing about casting is dealing with external surroundings. 52:46 - He talks about teaching how to roll cast. 55:53 - He's one of the Board of Governors in FFI's Casting Instructor Certification Program. 57:18 - He talks about kinesthetic relative to casting. 1:05:23 - We dig into the gear. He prefers a 10 1/2" 2wt rod. He likes the stealth rod from Temple Fork Outfitters (TFO) 1:08:05 - We talk about euro nymphing. That's how he fished with his grandfather in the Ozarks. 1:12:12 - I ask him about his definition of fly fishing. He also gives a tip on casting with heavy flies. 1:14:17 - We talk about music. He likes playing music with his kids and their electric guitars. He likes the Grateful Dead and Robert Johnson. He also mentions some other artists he likes. Show Notes: https://wetflyswing.com/553   

In this episode I sit down with Valerie Frapp, General Manager of the Historic Tapoco Lodge. We delve into the rich history, timeless design, and unparalleled craftsmanship that define this haven, virtually unchanged since its establishment in 1930. The Lodge's spacious and inviting layout, featuring the Tapoco dining room, Laurel Lounge Whiskey Bar, grand fireplace, library, and riverside seating with firepits, continues to captivate visitors.Discover the fascinating evolution of the Historic Tapoco Lodge through Valerie's insights into its 27 unique rooms, ranging from rustic cabins to luxurious suites, and the 11 enchanting hiking trails that weave through the property. But the magic doesn't end there – the staff's dedication to creating an unforgettable experience shines through, from incorporating local products into meals to fostering a warm holiday atmosphere, now extending throughout the year.No exploration of Historic Tapoco Lodge would be complete without delving into nearby wonders like the renowned Tale of the Dragon, the iconic Great Smoky Mountains National Park, serene Lake Santeetlah, the enchanting Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest, and charming towns like Robbinsville and Bryson City.Join us on this unforgettable journey into the heart and soul of a historic yet modern gem – Historic Tapoco Lodge, where adventure and sanctuary seamlessly converge.MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODEPotawatomi Nation https://www.potawatomiheritage.com/encyclopedia/trail-of-death/Enthusiast Hotel Collection https://enthusiasthotels.com/Chalkboard Communications https://www.chalkboardcomm.comBenton MacKaye https://appalachiantrailhistory.org/exhibits/show/builders/bmackaye#:~:text=MacKaye%20wanted%20his%20proposed%20Trail,increasing%20stresses%20of%20urban%20society.Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/nfsnc/recarea/?recid=48920Tail of the Dragon https://tailofthedragon.com/Historic Tapoco Lodge https://tapoco.com/Mike AndressHost, Exploration Local828-551-9065mike@explorationlocal.comPodcast WebsiteFacebookInstagram: explorationlocal

In this episode we WadeOutThere with Mac Brown from Bryson City, North Carolina.  Mac's Grandad taught him to fly fish as a small boy in the Ozarks, having him practice  in the yard before he would take him to the river.  Thus was born in him a fascination and love of not just fly fishing but loops and casting.  After fishing the White River system in college, Mac moved to North Carolina in 1986 and has been guiding there ever since.  Mac is a fly fishing and casting instructor and is the author of “Casting Angles.”  We discuss how the 80/20 principle applies to fly fishing's core practices, the basics of loop control, North Carolina, and the pitfalls of putting the goal before the process.To learn more about Mac and the topics we discussed in this episode, or to schedule a guided trip or casting lessons check out the following links:MacBrownFlyfish.comFlyfishingguideschool.comInstagram @macbrownflyfishPresentation by Gary A. BorgerTrout Fishing From All Angles by Eric TavernerThe Curtis Creek Manifesto by Sheridan AndersonHow to Get the Most From Your Time on the WaterFor more fly fishing stories, lessons learned, and artwork check out my blog and online gallery at Wadeoutthere.com

Segment 2, May 13th, 2023 There is a fly-fishing hall of fame that opened in the Catskills, NY, back in 1985.  It was opened there because of the rich history that the area had within the sport. However, the southern Appalachians also have a rich history of fly fishing.  For that reason, in 2013 the Fly Fishing Museum of the Southern Appalachians  (FFMSA) opened.  The first location was in Cherokee, NC.  It soon moved to Bryson City, NC, & recently has relocated beside the Appalachian Rivers Aquarium on Island Street. Alen Baker was the driving force in the opening of the museum & continues on the Board.  After growing up in the Lenoir-area & working for Duke Energy, he became a leading advocate for fly fishing & conservation.  His work for Trout Unlimited & the NC Wildlife Federation, along with authoring several books have made him a mainstay in the community. Baker joins the Carolina Outdoors to share the Museum's place as a center point for education, history, & the arts, as well as the crafts & science of the sport.  Baker describes the goal of capturing the history of fly fishing as "old-timers" pass away & technology changes. Technology has helped add to the sport & bring new people into it but the Museum's intent is helping them know the techniques, styles, & people that came before them. Bill Bartee spoke to Alen Baker with a Winston fly rod in Charlotte just to keep the spirit of the conversation in-style.

In April 1992, the body of Mary Catherine Haymond, 34, of Bryson City, NC was found shot to death in the home she shared with the man who killed her. We found very limited information about Mary Catherine, if you have anything you would be willing to share about who she was, please email us at weareresilientpod@gmail.comFor links to information found for this episode:https://www.newspapers.com/article/asheville-citizen-times/124066953/https://www.newspapers.com/article/asheville-citizen-times/124067021/https://www.newspapers.com/article/asheville-citizen-times/124067062/https://www.newspapers.com/article/asheville-citizen-times/124067110/

Show Notes:  https://wetflyswing.com/442 Presented By: Togens Fly Shop, Daiichi, Stonefly Nets, Angler's Coffee Sponsors: https://wetflyswing.com/sponsors Alen Baker is here to take us to the Fly Fishing Museum of the Southern Appalachians. We discover who some of the most famous people are in this region and why they have a drift boat in the museum. We also learn how they are different and similar to some of the museums around the country. Tune in and get ready to reel in some new knowledge! Fly Fishing Museum Show Notes with Alen Baker 03:00 - Alen shares how he got into fly fishing in 1981, noting that he grew up fishing with worm bait. 04:18 - Alen's idea for the Fly Fishing Museum of the Southern Appalachians came to fruition after a trip to Nova Scotia, where he visited the Salmon Museum and was inspired to create something similar for the South. 08:12 - The museum primarily focuses on the people and methods of fly fishing in the mountains, with a special exhibit on Ray Bergman's rod and book called Trout. 10:03 - Alen noted some individuals that have contributed significantly to the history of fly fishing in the Southern Appalachian region, like Fred and Allaine Hall, who were well-known fly pattern creators. 13:05 - The Hall of Fame has expanded to include the Ozarks and is now known as the Southern Fly Fishing Hall of Fame. It includes people like Bernard "Lefty" Kreh, Davy Wotton, Dave Whitlock, and others who have significantly contributed to the fly fishing industry, including conservationists and craftsmen. 14:08 - Other notable museums include the Catskill Fly Fishing Museum, the Fly Fishers International in Livingston, and the American Museum of Fly Fishing. 16:15 - Alen walks us through the museum's Hall of Fame selection process. The museum holds a meet and greet and induction luncheon for their Hall of Fame, followed by a museum tour. They also host a fundraiser to raise money for groups like Casting Carolinas. 19:08 - Bryson City is well known for whitewater rafting on the Nantahala Outdoor Center and the Smoky Mountain Railroad. 20:54 - The new building for the museum will feature aquariums and a cabin-style museum with a vaulted ceiling to house exhibits such as Gary and Wanda Taylor's McKenzie-style drift boat built and run in the southeast. We had Wanda Taylor on the show before. 26:15 - We had a whole mini-season on drift boats before. In one episode, we also had John Bond talk about moving his drift boat to Norway. We also had Jack Dennis in Episode 217. 28:12 - The museum has also established satellite exhibits in various locations to promote the museum and make it more accessible to people who cannot visit the primary site in Bryson City. They currently have seven satellite exhibit locations. 35:14 - Alen wrote My Fly Fishing Playbook and also a book about the museum. He will also write a follow-up book to Fly Fishermen of Caldwell County: North Carolina Life Stories. 38:46 - Alen recommends the Smoky Mountain Fly Fishing and Tuckaseegee Fly Shop for people who want to fly fish in Bryson City. 42:00 - Jim Casada, Don Kirk, and Jim Dean were some of the individuals that influenced Alen in his fly fishing. Don started his own Hall of Fame called Legends of the Fly. 46:18 - If you build it, they will come. -- Alen Baker Show Notes: https://wetflyswing.com/442

In this episode Brian and Mark have real estate agent and investor Kirby Graves on the show to talk about using investing as an alternative form of income, how Kirby got into real estate investing, Kirby's first investing deal, what types of investments can work well for the real estate agent, getting started and making that initial jump into investing, balancing being a real estate agent and a property investor, Kirby's Bryson City campground property investment, where agents should look for money for their first deals & partnering up with others  and book and podcast recommendations for investing.Social Media and Contact InformationLink Tree:  https://linktr.ee/raisingrealestatestandards

You may have seen the sign dated 1943 on a windy road in the Smoky Mountains. It's just outside the Bryson City and reads “Welcome to the Road to Nowhere: A broken promise!” You can follow the road through a dark tunnel, but then it mysteriously ends in the side of a mountain. WRAL's Hidden History reporter Heather Leah breaks down the mystery for us in this episode. https://www.wral.com/road-to-nowhere-abandoned-tunnel-s-history-connects-to-underwater-ghost-town-in-nc/19960234/

In today's episode, I met up with my buddy and neighbor Dean Gibson and we sat down at one of our local parks where Dean did me the honor of sharing a glimpse into his story. He touches on what it was like to grow up as a black man in Appalachia, and tell us about Operation Grassy Knoll -- the retaliatory police ambush of one of Haywood County's historically black communities that targeted and criminalized Dean along with about 20 other folks -- before he talks about the corruption of the so-called "justice" system that sentenced him to life in prison before he successfully had his sentence overturned. Hopefully Dean will have some books coming out soon in more depth about his experiences, but in the meantime, you can check out some of these news articles:1) A Community Cracks (2019): https://www.themountaineer.com/news/a-community-cracks/article_12706a24-497e-11e9-a387-4bcb39e9df5f.html?2) Hold Until Deceased (2019): https://www.themountaineer.com/news/hold-until-deceased/article_27b0ac5c-4981-11e9-a0f4-c3410914a098.html?3) An Appeal to Justice (2019): https://www.themountaineer.com/news/an-appeal-to-justice/article_3e38b744-4990-11e9-9cbf-93ea9109ff30.html?4) Drug Trials Under Way in Bryson City (1998): http://haywoodlibrary.advantage-preservation.com/viewer/?fn=the_enterprise_mountaineer_usa_north_carolina_waynesville_19980311_english_1&df=1&dt=10&cid=28505) A Community on the Brink (1998): http://haywoodlibrary.advantage-preservation.com/viewer/?fn=the_enterprise_mountaineer_usa_north_carolina_waynesville_19980325_english_1&df=1&dt=10&cid=2850---Follow, support, share the podcast at: https://linktr.ee/rednecksrising

Dennis and Rhydon welcome surprise impromptu guest, Cajun Joe, to the show as he and Rhydon sat at opposite ends of their family dinning table in Bryson City for what is one of the most interesting shows in HVAC R&D history. Sit back and enjoy some stories from a legend of the industry.

In today's crowded Airbnb space, gain a competitive advantage through data analysis!   We welcome Airbnb data expert John Bianchi to discuss how we can extract and utilize Airbnb data to make our listings stand out and boost our bookings. John is the founder of Jaunt, an Airbnb property management company, and his goal is to help investors acquire profitable Airbnbs. Today, he offers data-driven insights on the current trends in the market, hotspots for opportunities to look out for, and proven ways to add value to our properties.     [00:01 - 02:24] Meet the Airbnb Data Guy John talks about his consulting business with clients all over the world Why he decided to upload a free Airbnb Data YouTube course   [02:25 - 13:13] Experience is King How COVID impacted Airbnb People are now searching for amenities, not places What are the best locations? Areas to consider: National parks The rise of second-tier and third-tier spots Why unique stays are winning  Exploring the motel and RV resort industry The advantages of an unmanned hotel   [13:14 - 19:42] Analysis with AirDNA Consistency and trends are key Replicating what works and offering more How amenities can make a big difference   [19:43 - 21:28] Closing Segment Reach out to John!  Links Below Final Words Tweetable Quotes   “Airbnb's all about the amenities. The boring homes are the ones that lose.” - John Bianchi “Data is all about finding trends. You find some sort of consistency, some sort of pattern that can be repeated.” - John Bianchi “In the long run of things, by adding in those hot tubs and adding in a game room, and a pool table, all that's doing is sort of securing your bet.” - John Bianchi -----------------------------------------------------------------------------   Connect with John! Shoot him an email and schedule a free consultation call at hello@pointanalytics.co. Subscribe to his YouTube channel for his Airbnb Data courses!   Connect with me:   I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook   LinkedIn   Like, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you listen on.  Thank you for tuning in!   Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:   [00:00:00] John Bianchi: Now the way that I explain this is that data is all about finding trends. You find some sort of consistency, some sort of pattern that can be repeated, right? It is, in a sense, the Burger King logic. So McDonald's spends millions of dollars to figure out what corner to be on, Burger King opens up across the street, right? We are the Burger King in this scenario. We use all of the Airbnbs that currently exist as guinea pigs that, to figure out exactly what's working, what's driving revenue. And once we find a trend, a home at a certain style and a certain theme where we can see that it's been done a few different times, what ends up happening is you see they're all roughly making about a hundred thousand dollars. So then that tells you if I then go open up across the street with the exact same style, look, and feel, I'm going to make about a hundred thousand dollars, right?  [00:00:55] Sam Wilson: John Bianchi built and sold an Airbnb business. And during that time he learned how to analyze Airbnb data so well that he's been able to build a consulting service based upon it. John, welcome to the show.  [00:01:05] John Bianchi: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. [00:01:07] Sam Wilson: Pleasure, man. There's three questions I ask every guest who comes to the show: in 90 seconds or less, can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now? And how did you get there?  [00:01:14] John Bianchi: Started out of Michigan actually. So started out of my own bedroom. I had an Airbnb and I rented out the extra room. Just kinda get a feel for it Where I ended up, where I am now is an Airbnb data consulting business where I literally helped people purchase Airbnbs all across the United States, all across the world, actually, just to, I do reports in Italy and in London, England, and stuff like that. [00:01:33] John Bianchi: And I got there through a lot of work, ended up building up the business from, started in Michigan, building up a couple of homes, raised money, opened up a business in Chicago, built that up to about 15 locations, had some down in Scottsdale, Arizona as well. And also built out a cleaning company alongside with that. [00:01:50] John Bianchi: Then 2020 came and I had somebody who wanted to buy my business, so I sold it. And then I was trying to get, stay within the Airbnb world. And the data was something that I did extremely well and I realized that nobody else did well. And so I actually just created a course, put the course on YouTube 'cause I had no idea how to sell it and it wasn't that great. So I was put onto YouTube for free and now about 10,000 people have gone through it and 10% of those people have actually finished it. And literally, just from putting that course out there, I've kind of created a name for myself as the Airbnb data guy and literally, like, created a business from there. And so I've just kind of been rolling with it from then.  [00:02:24] Sam Wilson: Man, that's absolutely fantastic. I want to hear more about that. You know, everybody knows the trends inside of Airbnb and the reason I think you and I are talking on this show is 'cause I see personally Airbnb as a scalable business. And that's the name of the show, How to Scale Commercial Real Estate. Yes. Airbnb is typically in the single-family sector, but let's talk about a trend maybe that we're seeing before we get into the data side. So that way we have some kind of supporting evidence or things to apply the data to. What are some trends we're seeing in the Airbnb world right now that, yeah, just talk to us about that? I hear there's some interesting things going on.  [00:02:58] John Bianchi: So COVID is one of the most interesting things that has happened to the Airbnb world. Like, it literally shook up everything that was happening. Before, it was just very, very typical. You know, you get your single-family home, you rent it out and you go to the main areas that you could think of, right? So you got your, all your major cities. The biggest ones are obviously Nashville, Tennessee, because they were like a town, but also had a bunch of tourism from bachelor parties, stuff like that, right? Then COVID hit and COVID kind of changed everything. It stopped everything but also moved everybody out of the cities into these remote areas. [00:03:29] John Bianchi: And so what ended up happening was you saw these areas like Poconos, just outside of Philadelphia and New York, you know, the Smoky Mountains just like absolutely blew up, all these different spots. You could just go on and on about these different spots. We're just seeing insane revenue because everyone in America wasn't traveling internationally. They're all just staying local. And so there became all of these hot spots, like, you could literally buy a home within, in Poconos for $300,000 and it would make $150,000 in a year, right? It's insane. So now though, so a couple of things have happened. First, we're going into a recession. [00:04:00] John Bianchi: And so people are slowing down. People are traveling internationally now. So there's not as much people traveling around or, sorry, going to these local spots anymore. And Airbnb actually made major changes to their platform, which changes the way that people search for properties. They're no longer just typing in a location that they want to go to. They're actually typing the amenities that they want, right? Like, I want a lakefront. I want a lot of space. I want a view. Like, that's the way that people search for properties now. So they're not going to specific destinations. So the combination of all of that literally shifted the entire trend of Airbnb within the past two months. [00:04:34] John Bianchi: So places like the Poconos that were just absolutely killing it are sort of falling apart or softening. And so, you know, I work for an investment fund right now and every single time they were looking to go into a market, we're looking to see, is this market softening, right? Has too many people gone in there? Has the revenue dropped year over year, even though there's more supply? And so with all of that being said, it's really hard to say what the exact trend is going to be in the next year because everyone is going international. These ones are softening and we might be going into a recession. So there's like a couple of different factors we've got to consider, right? The way that I keep thinking about it is, what's the stuff that's never going anywhere that people are going to keep going to, that you can build a 10-year business, 20-year business off of, right? [00:05:20] John Bianchi: The easiest ones without a doubt are national parks, right? National parks, people are going to keep going to those. They're going to keep being cool. But the way to actually think about it is that there's multiple entrances to national parks. So as an example, Gatlinburg is, like, the main area to get into the Smokies. But on the other side of the Smokies is Bryson City, which is like this tiny little spot, which apparently is now doing even better, but you could also access the Smokies that way. It's just not as common. So that's where I think, like, a lot of the interesting trends are going to be is like find the places that aren't going anywhere, but where's the opportunities within those areas. [00:05:53] John Bianchi: And, like, one last thing to add to that is even airlines have created one-way flights to the second entrances of national parks. So, like, the second tier entrances, because there's a lot less business travel 'cause of Zoom. They're now trying to figure out other ways that they can fly people around. And one-way flights to these sort of second-tier cities that also enter national parks is happening as well. And that's just going to push more people to those areas.  [00:06:20] Sam Wilson: That's really interesting. I'm trying to think of, shoot, I'm thinking of like St. George, Utah or Kalispell, Montana, places like that, you know, you'd probably, a dozen other cities that would come off the top of my head. You never searched for those, right? [00:06:34] John Bianchi: Never. [00:06:35] Sam Wilson: If you're going to a national park, but yet you're telling me that those are cities now that we should probably start looking for flights into.  [00:06:40] John Bianchi: To be considering. You know, the way that I like to explain it is, a great example is Big Bear right out of, outside of LA, like everybody knows Big Bear, but it's an established market, been around forever, and all of the homes that exist there are Airbnbs, right? And so now there's restaurant stores, tours, all that kind of stuff. One of the main things that I'm seeing is that there's a lot of second tier, third tier locations that are turning into that because people who own family cottages are now selling them to Airbnb investors and Airbnb investors are bringing in, like, a hundred different families into that one specific home. [00:07:12] John Bianchi: If you get a hundred people doing that, right, now, you have like hundreds of new families coming into these new areas, which can support businesses, right? And so once that happens, they're creating new vacation areas, right? And so, like Big Bear, they ran out of space in Big Bear, right? So it's, like, now they need to create all these other new little spots. And so I think those new little spots that are going to be created that are close and have that similar amenities, right? Like the same sort of features that Big Bear has, but maybe not Big Bear is where the majority of the opportunity is going to be coming. [00:07:43] Sam Wilson: I like that idea, you know, but I guess I want to hear how do you account, if you're a data analyst, how do you account for search changes, softening of the market? How do you build that into, is this a good investment? Is this a bad investment? I mean, is it a crapshoot? [00:08:00] John Bianchi: Yeah. So the way that I think you have to win with Airbnb is you got to, you got to think long term without a doubt. Like, if you're just trying to get in for a year or two, just never makes sense, right? But Airbnb's all about the amenities, I said earlier right? Like, the boring homes are the ones that lose. So the people that buy the boring home in the neighborhood of a cool area tend to not do nearly as well, right? So what I mean by that is you need to have the hot tub. You need to have the views. You need to have the lakefront, if you can, you need to have, like, a home that's bigger than the other homes in the area that allows you to have a game room, right? I was just looking at this, doing a property analysis today. And this one home had a slide that went from the kitchen island to the basement, right? It's making $10,000 more than the home next door that doesn't have that, right? The reason being is 'cause they're focused on the kid stuff, right? And so the way that I always say, like, you have to wait in, like, what I'm planning on doing with my own portfolio as I continue to build over the years, 'cause I'm planning on rebuilding my own is just a hundred percent focusing on the properties that just provide everything that you could possibly want in comparison to the neighbors that don't have that. And I think even if markets soften, there's still going to be people going to those areas and it's going to be the homes that provide everything that people want that they're going to be going to, especially with the way that Airbnb is now creating their search.  [00:09:17] Sam Wilson: Yeah. That's a really good, really good points there. And I think that's what people want. We've shifted and for better or for worse, either way to a more experienced-based society. Especially with the younger generations coming up, it's like, I'm kind of part of that in the sense that, like the last thing I want is more stuff, right? Like our, I think our parents and our grandparents, like the acquisition of things in homes and like all this was part of their kind of ethos, but for us, it's like, I don't want any more junk. I just want to experience something really cool. And so to your point, like, Hey, a home with a slide in the kitchen, like, what in the world? [00:09:52] Sam Wilson: Like, oh, the kids go into the basement on the island. That's really, that's pretty fun. Like, I want to do that. So that's really, really cool. What about the trend that we're seeing in the motel space? I've heard some rumblings about this. Do you think that's sustainable?  [00:10:07] John Bianchi: Honestly, this is something that I need, I personally want to be doing even more research into, just because of the amount of noise that I'm hearing or the amount of people I hear doing certain things. [00:10:17] John Bianchi: So, the concept here is you take a motel that has staff. And, you know, it has a check-in desk and, has the breakfast and all that kind of stuff. And you get rid of all of that. And you automate everything that you possibly can within the motel, so that there's literally only a cleaning company. So that when people book on Airbnb, they get their door code, they get their door number. They don't have to talk to anybody and they just go to the door and they check in, check out, and the cleaning company comes, turns it over, and gets it ready for the next guest, right? This is referred to as like the unmanned hotel. You're also making them really trendy. So you buy this motel and then you make it super trendy, really cool looking, and get rid of the expenses, right, of like what you have there.  [00:10:55] John Bianchi: And you know, this is happening in motels. I've also seen it happen in apartment buildings, people taking over complete and entire apartment buildings. Sonder, which is, like, one of the biggest companies that exist did this in downtown Chicago. And I ran all the numbers 'cause I had all their data from the area and they were making like $250,000 more per year running it as that rather than as an apartment building, right? And so like, there's definitely money to be made in it. You just have to have the money to be able to buy the hotel, but you know, there's some big players. [00:11:22] John Bianchi: I don't know if I can necessarily name names, but, like, I know that Robuilt, you know, from BiggerPockets, they're looking at an apartment, a hotel in New York, right, and I can guarantee you it's going to be an unmanned hotel in New York, right? I know other people who are looking down in Miami to do that, I come across in the data, tons of these different places that are already doing it as well. There's one guy on our team who knows somebody who's, that's his entire portfolio. He literally is just looking for motels that he can flip into unmanned hotels.  [00:11:48] Sam Wilson: Right. And again, it goes back to, I think you said, you know, the experience based you know, this maybe isn't necessarily the roadside motel that is, you know, just servicing the local construction crew that's coming through, though that might be part of it. It is, you know, probably again, making them really, really interesting places to go and stay, and yet cutting so much of the expense. Like you said, you know, the breakfast probably nobody wanted anyway. And the front desk staff, the check-in just, you know, the inefficiency there behind that. [00:12:16] Sam Wilson: And we're certainly seeing that even in the RV resort space. I mean, adding, adding a lot of these places, we buy have cabins. They might even have a 10 or 20-room motel and that's a hundred percent the model we're taking, which is like, oh wait, we can completely get rid of the front desk. This makes all the sense in the world. [00:12:31] John Bianchi: Yeah. And that's, you know, that's, that's another area that I'd love to talk about even a little bit more because that's a super trendy, I don't know if it's necessarily trendy like it's going away. But people are amping up their game when it comes to these RV parks and unique stay parks, let's call them, right? Yep. There's one outta Yosemite. That is just absolutely amazing. Like it's, it's one of the coolest places. I want to own it. Like, I literally, I just want it. It's so cool. But there's, but it's creating this experience that you're not going to get anywhere else, right? [00:12:59] John Bianchi: Like, you can book a motel or you can book an Airstream and have, like, the really cool area that you're going to be saying. And it's, you know, it's going to cost double, but you're gonna want to pay for it because it's also the experience, right? [00:13:11] Sam Wilson: Right. Yep. That's it, man. That's it. I want to get into really the heart of this discussion, which is the data, the data that you're pulling. You're a data analyst. I want to hear what data you're pulling, how you're synthesizing it, and turning it into a meaningful, something meaningful that you can then make decisions based off of. Can you walk us through that?  [00:13:30] John Bianchi: Yeah. So AirDNA is the site that I use for Airbnb data. It's the number one Airbnb site or Airbnb data site, without a doubt. There's some other players out there but I've, you know, honed my skills within AirDNA. Now, the way that I always explain this is that data is all about finding trends. You find some sort of consistency, some sort of pattern that can be repeated, right? It is, in a sense, the Burger King logic. [00:13:55] John Bianchi: So McDonald's spends millions of dollars to figure out what corner to be on. Burger King opens up across the street, right? And we are the Burger King in this scenario.  We use all of the Airbnbs that currently exist as guinea pigs to figure out exactly what's working, what's driving revenue, and once we find a trend, a home in a certain style and a certain theme where we can see that it's been done a few different times. What ends up happening is you see they're all roughly making about a hundred thousand dollars. So then that tells you if I then go open up across the street with the exact same style, look, and feel, I'm going to make about a hundred thousand dollars, right? It's the same idea as comping in the, you know, comping a long-term rental, like, you're saying, okay, you got two bedrooms, two bath, but there's more to it, right? It's like, how did they design it? What amenities did they have? [00:14:36] John Bianchi: What kind of views do they have? Different things along those lines. So the way that to kind of bring this back is that when you're going through the data, you have to find the trend, you have to find the consistency. So I have a course on YouTube for free that teaches you how to take AirDNA data and extract it. So pull that data, pull that information out, plug it into a spreadsheet, and do that in a way that allows you to see how much do the four bedrooms make within this specific area of the city. And is there a difference between those four bedrooms and the next neighborhood over, right? [00:15:10] John Bianchi: And you'll be able to see this because there is, there'll be enough, depending on where you are, there'll be enough data to be able to see that sort of trend, right? And so some examples here is like I had my, I had a bunch of four bedrooms in Chicago. The closer you were to the city, the more money you would make. The further, the next neighborhood over would be $10,000 less. The next neighborhood, $10,000 less, right? You just kept dropping by $10,000, sort of the further out you went, but super consistent trend. So you knew whenever you were going to rent a home or whatever in the next neighborhood you had to account for that $10,000 difference in making sure that you were getting it for less than you were in the other neighborhoods. [00:15:48] John Bianchi: Right. And so, yeah, so like the idea is you're looking for some sort of pattern, some sort of consistency where you can literally just replicate that. And the best part about it is that, you know, everything that works. And then you can do more on top of that, right? it's like, oh, okay. I know that I know that I need all this stuff, but I'm actually going to design my home even better. I'm going to take even better photos and I'm going to add a hot tub in the backyard. So now I'm better than everybody else. And so I, I should be able to outperform these people and I'm actually going to be taking the reservations from them to allow me to hit that a hundred thousand dollars.  [00:16:18] Sam Wilson: Is there an algorithm that you use when figuring out what an amenity might be worth? [00:16:25] John Bianchi: I don't have an exact algorithm, so that's literally one of the hardest things to figure out. And the reason being is because you have so many different little factors, like, there's some listings that will be like great, amazing, amazing photos, really well designed, super professional, but it's not a luxury property. [00:16:42] John Bianchi: And then you have like a really bad, bad listing, bad photos, but it's a luxury property and they do the exact same. You know what I mean? So if, you know, in other words, not everything is equal when we're looking at the way that they're marketed, the way that they're designed. So you have to almost play with it, right? [00:16:57] John Bianchi: The only way that you're actually able to figure that out, first, you have to have a ton of data. That's the first one, right? You got to have a good enough amount of data. It, and it works really well. So like for certain amenities, it works really well when it's a larger amenity. Okay. So what I mean by that is views is a great example. So view, right? Like, if you have, in Blue Ridge Georgia. So I was just doing this analysis for the company in Blue Ridge, Georgia. If you have spectacular views, not just like, I can see off my deck, you need the rolling sort of mountain look, right? [00:17:28] John Bianchi: If you have those spectacular views from a deck, You can make about $130,000 as with a four-bedroom cabin, right? It's got to be a pretty good cabin, but you got, and you have the views. If you take that exact same cabin and you give it no views, you'll make $80,000, right? That's just like very, very clear consistency in the data, that's the difference between the views and no views, right? [00:17:52] Sam Wilson: So fifty grand a year in gross income, view or no view?  [00:17:56] John Bianchi: Right. A hundred percent. Like, that's not, that's not made up, that's not a gas I've gone through the data, like very thoroughly, right? That's an amenity that's really clean and easy to be able to see the difference because the homes are made fairly similar there, and then some homes will just be like, there's, they're just in the middle of a bush, which is awesome. [00:18:10] John Bianchi: But somehow the views, which is $50,000 better, right? Now, when it comes to like a hot tub, that's where it gets a little bit more difficult. . It's a little bit more of a guessing game, right? So the kind of the way that I think about this is, you know, in the long run of things, by adding in those hot tubs and adding in a game room and a pool table, all that's doing is sort of securing your bet, right? You're securing your bet in the sense that like I'm going to be better than these people. I'm giving more, I'm offering more. And so I should be able to get more. It is difficult to put an exact dollar number on the smaller stuff.  [00:18:44] Sam Wilson: Well, and I think that amenities like that, I like that. I like what you put, there's called it securing your bet. I also think about amenities as being regional. Like if I'm going to Breckenridge, Colorado and it's, then it's January. I absolutely, I'm not looking at listings without a hot tub. If I'm going to Destin, Florida and it's July, I don't give a rip about the hot tub, but the last thing I want is a hot tub. So it's like, you know, it is regional as well. [00:19:08] Sam Wilson: So I'm sure there's a bit of, a bit of art in figuring that out. But I think, I think the really big thing you gave us here was that one, you know, you got your course on YouTube where we, where we can make meaningful inferences from the trends we're finding in the data. So I think that's, that's really cool and something, I'm probably going to go watch as well. [00:19:24] Sam Wilson: 'Cause I think, I think it's just very fascinating. So thank you for putting that together for us. And also just the idea of making those, those amenities where it's, like, you will rise to the top, even if it's maybe, you know, getting the same, the same return or the same, same rent as everybody else, at least it puts you at the front of the pack. So those are very, very interesting things. John, this has been awesome. I can't believe our time is up here. We've covered so much. We've talked about everything from using data in a meaningful way. We've talked about the trends that we're seeing in the markets. We've talked about softening of the markets, how we're seeing some unique opportunities in some tertiary markets we've probably never even heard of. What did you call it, Bryson City?  [00:20:00] John Bianchi: Yeah, Bryson City. I was looking at it yesterday. Pretty sure it's Bryson City. [00:20:03] Sam Wilson: .Yeah. Right. Never heard of it so that, you know, that's, there's stuff like that, that I just think will be really fascinating to watch. You know, as here, as we potentially may go into a recession and then, you know, as international travel expands, like how does this market evolve, but certainly appreciate you staying in front of it and sharing with us your insight here today. If our listeners want to get in touch with you or learn more about you, what is the best way to do that?  [00:20:26] John Bianchi: Best way is to email me. So hello@pointanalytics.co. You can email me at that email and I like to talk to everybody and kind of give them a free consulting call to help them understand, you know, exactly what they should be looking for. So if you do email me, we can hop on a, you know, 15-minute call. We'll go through your situation and try and figure out exactly if my consulting business can be of use to what you're trying to do, otherwise it's just going to give you free advice. So, yeah. So hello@pointanalytics.co.  [00:20:57] Sam Wilson: Awesome. John, thank you again for coming on today. It was a blast. Certainly appreciate it.  [00:21:01] John Bianchi: Yeah. Thanks for having me on. 

Joshua 5.9-12, Psalm 32, 2 Corinthians 5.16-21, Luke 15.1-3, 11b-32; How can we pray by listening? What does it means to be an ambassador for Christ? Is grace actually amazing? These questions and more on this episode of Strangely Warmed with guest Wayne Dickert. Wayner is the pastor of the River of Life and Bryson City UMC in Bryson City, NC.Hosted by Taylor Mertins.-Don't forget to head over to https://www.crackersandgrapejuice.comClick on “Support the Show.”Become a patronSubscribe to CGJ+For peanuts, you can help us out….we appreciate it more than you can imagine.Follow us on the three-majors of social media:https://www.facebook.com/crackersnjuicehttps://www.instagram.com/crackersandgrapejuicehttp://www.twitter.com/crackersnjuice

Isaiah 55.1-9, Psalm 63.1-8, 1 Corinthians 10.1-13, Luke 13.1-9; Why are there so many references to water in scripture? Is there such a thing as a good church meeting? What does the ministry of restoration look like? These questions and more on this episode of Strangely Warmed with guest Wayne Dickert. Wayner is the pastor of the River of Life and Bryson City UMC in Bryson City, NC.Hosted by Taylor Mertins.-Don't forget to head over to https://www.crackersandgrapejuice.comClick on “Support the Show.”Become a patronSubscribe to CGJ+For peanuts, you can help us out….we appreciate it more than you can imagine.Follow us on the three-majors of social media:https://www.facebook.com/crackersnjuicehttps://www.instagram.com/crackersandgrapejuicehttp://www.twitter.com/crackersnjuice

Hey, y'all, and welcome to Southern Macabre! I'm Aeryn and I'm so glad that you could join me for True Crime Friday. Today we're going to talk about the victims, and possible victims, of a southern serial killer. You may remember I mentioned one of his possible victims two weeks ago. If not, that's fine because I'm going to talk about her again today. ----- The National Park Killer was Gary Michael Hilton. He was born November 22, 1946 in Atlanta, Georgia. He was arrested January 5, 2008 and is currently waiting to be put to death in Florida for his crimes. He was sentenced to life in prison in North Carolina and Georgia. As I said, he was born in Atlanta, Georgia and the earliest account we have of him is when he was thirteen and he shot his stepfather, Nilo DeBag, in the abdomen. I triple checked that that was his real name cause I wasn't familiar with it in that sense. Anyway, Hilton was sent to a mental institution when his stepdad didn't press charges. Understandably, his mom didn't want him in the house when he got out so he went to live with Dawn and Mark Jeffers. I think they were foster parents, but I couldn't find anything to confirm or deny it. When he was about seventeen years old he enlisted in the Army where he got his GED. Different sources say different things. One says he was a paratrooper while another says he was part of a small group in charge of a specialized missile that would kill all of them if it was ever used. Either way, it was during his Army career that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia and admitted to a military mental hospital. Afterwards he was honorably discharged. Between his discharge and 2008, he was arrested for drugs, theft, possession of a firearm without a license, and DUIs, but never served time. He also got married, and divorced, three times. He was arrested in 2008, bringing his killing days to an end. Hilton had a higher-than-average IQ of 120, and he either had attention deficit disorder or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Different sources say different things, but he was on Ritalin for the disorder. For those who are not familiar, ADD is often classified as the inability to focus, but most people with it actually hyperfocus. We're the best multitaskers you will ever see. ADHD is like ADD, except you tend to be more energetic. You might drum your fingers on the table or tap your foot while listening to a lecture, as an example. I'm bringing these things up because they were a part of Hilton, but he didn't commit these crimes because of this disorder or even because of the Ritalin. His untreated schizophrenia may have played a part, but he has never blamed that. I haven't found anything where he has ever said why he did what he did, but maybe it doesn't really matter. I know a lot of people are interested in the psychology behind serial killers, or there wouldn't be so many documentaries about it. ----- Hilton's first victim was Rossana Miliani. She had traveled from Miami, Florida to Cherokee, North Carolina on vacation in December 2005. She was 29 years old at that time. She spoke of hiking the Appalachian Trail and spoke to her father that day. She then went to Bryson City, North Carolina where she rented a small storage unit. In 2009, a store clerk saw an article about Rossana and remembered selling her a backpack around the time she disappeared. She remembered seeing a man appearing to be in his sixties with her and she appeared nervous. Hilton told the store clerk that he was a traveling preacher, which is what made him memorable to her. Hilton resembles the sketch a private investigator made and according to Murderpedia.org, Hilton admitted to beating Rossana to death. Police have evidence that he used her debit card after she went missing. Unfortunately, Rossana's body has never been found. ----- On December 1, 2006, Hilton came across --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Will heaven be boring? Mark Twain and Richard Dawkins both said something to effect, and that critique deserves a response. Check out my answer here:  YouTube - https://youtu.be/ZtX6vPSHU6Y Next week I will be preaching at the Francis Asbury Societies Hemlock Retreat in Bryson City, NC.  The Francis Asbury Society is hosting two separate sessions where I will be speaking on the book of Jude. You can learn more  at https://francisasburysociety.com/hemlock-inn-retreats/ My first sponsor, WPO Development, has been a great encouragement to me. Keith Waters and his team do an amazing job leading non-profits and churches through capital campaigns, strategic plans, and mission planning studies. You can find out more about them at info@wpodevelopment.com  Also, Wesley Biblical Seminary sponsors this podcast. Though we just started our semester, we could still slide you into classes if you reach out to us in the next week. Find out about FREE SEMINARY at www.wbs.edu.     

Our guest in this episode is Neil Hutcheson, an Award-winning Filmmaker, Photographer, and Author.He resides in Raleigh, N.C. where he works as a producer and director of the Language and Life Project for N.C. State University, but spends a great deal of time in the Great Smokies, the location of several of his most popular projects.His most well-known works include books and films about Maggie Valley moonshine legend Popcorn Sutton, as well as books and videos on Cherokee culture and language, along with documentaries and books pertaining to Appalachian and African American vernacular, climate change, and heritage fisheries of the Outer Banks on the N.C. coast.Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.NYC or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.SHOW NOTES:SEGMENT 1Tonight's show starts off with an introduction of what to expect from this episode. After announcements from the show's sponsors, our host Joseph McElroy introduces tonight's special guest: Neil Hutcheson. The two go through and lightly discuss Neil's well-known projects, his background, and Neil explains how he unexpectedly came to be in this industry and where his interest in language and filmmaking came from. The two swap origin stories shortly before the break.SEGMENT 2Coming back from the break, the discussion shifts into more of Neil's works, such as his documentaries. One project that they go more into depth about was a play about Louis Redman. Neil explains who Louis Redman was and what he did and how his case and the history surrounding it reflected the media at the time. He emphasizes that the media can get distorted and how no one really knows the true Louis Redman. The conversation moves on to the topic of “mountain culture.” Neil wrote about this culture in his book and explains how it has changed in recent years since he last wrote about it in the early 2000s. The two discuss what mountain culture is and dismantle the negative stereotypes and perspectives that surround it.SEGMENT 3Coming back from the break, Neil discusses how he got the local community to trust and accept him into their community. Additionally, Neil talks about how he got to get on a deeper level with Popcorn Sutton, especially since he often gave off the impression of always putting on a show. Neil explained how Popcorn Sutton could give off that impression, but he was a genuine performer and to an extent, was being himself. This leads to the conversation about how Neil was able to successfully capture who Popcorn Sutton is as a person in his movies and especially in his book. He goes on to talk about his more recent projects, many of which come from his own companies.SEGMENT 4The final segment starts off with an introduction of one of Neil's latest works, involving documenting another aspect of mountain culture: mountain music. The documentary can be found on YouTube and is called the Queen Family. Joseph and Neil talk about their favorite parts of the mountains and mountain culture in general. Neil explains why he loves nature in the mountains so much. They go further into their discussion by talking about more specific local spots at Maggie Valley and Neil tells what his itinerary would be like when visiting. The episode closes with special shoutouts where the audience can find more about Neil and his upcoming works.--------------------------------------------------------------------------TRANSCRIPT00:00:27.840 –> 00:00:32.310 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week's episode of gateway to the smokies.00:00:33.270 –> 00:00:41.970 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America's most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and the surrounding towns.00:00:42.330 –> 00:00:51.390 Joseph McElroy: these areas are filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we explore with weekly episodes.00:00:51.840 –> 00:01:04.770 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklyn McElroy a man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains my family's lived in the great smoky for over 200 years my business is in travel, but my heart is in culture.00:01:05.340 –> 00:01:12.900 Joseph McElroy: today's podcast is about outlaws and outliers in the smokies, but first a little sponsorship information.00:01:13.530 –> 00:01:21.240 Joseph McElroy: I want you to imagine a place evocative motor courts of the past a modern and vibrant environment with a Chic Appalachian field.00:01:21.810 –> 00:01:28.740 Joseph McElroy: a place for adventure and for relaxation imagine a place where you can fish in a mountain here and it's a trout stream.00:01:29.010 –> 00:01:47.820 Joseph McElroy: grill the catch on fire and eat accompanied by fine lines or craft beers imagine it plays with old-time music and world cultural sounds, there is no other place like the Meadowlark Motel in Maggie Valley North Carolina your smoky mountain adventure starts with where you stay.00:01:48.840 –> 00:02:02.700 Joseph McElroy: smokies adventure.com that smokies plural adventure singular. COM has a site that features listings and information about the smoking's hiking wedding venues books trail Max resources.00:02:03.210 –> 00:02:21.150 Joseph McElroy: The emphasis on smoky adventures is outdoor recreation outdoor life events like weddings and adventures, along with providing information and lodging family and family entertainment events conventions and honeymoons and more it's the leading information portal of the smoky mountain.00:02:23.310 –> 00:02:28.740 Joseph McElroy: I want to mention some events coming up this is summertime in the smokies there are lots of events.00:02:29.790 –> 00:02:40.650 Joseph McElroy: So you can sort of search for them and find them just about anywhere I pick some that I think are great and also you know, relative to the businesses, the business I run in the mountains.00:02:42.360 –> 00:02:57.480 Joseph McElroy: And the first one is the Darren Nicholson bluegrass band camp and concert somebody that know anything about bluegrass know Darren Nicholson and he's a member of balsam range he has his own band he's a grammy award-nominated artists and.00:02:58.710 –> 00:03:08.310 Joseph McElroy: It has won many of the bluegrass towards this event is for aspiring musicians to learn and interact with some of the best artists in the business.00:03:08.700 –> 00:03:27.090 Joseph McElroy: And the venue culminate in an open to the public, all Stuart star concert on July 17 that's this Saturday this this this band camp will be repeated in future years so look forward if you're listening in the future to this podcast but for now July 17, 20100:03:29.130 –> 00:03:44.880 Joseph McElroy: Go to Meadwolarkmotel.com look under the mountain heritage smoky mountain heritage events and you'll find this event, and you can purchase tickets to come to it, you can also with lodging you get a free concert and you get half price on the band camp.00:03:45.990 –> 00:03:53.850 Joseph McElroy: They have him coming July 23 and 24th is hillbilly jam, the famous hillbilly Jam in Maggie Valley in North Carolina open the public.00:03:54.120 –> 00:04:09.270 Joseph McElroy: Both days music festival with crafts and food, food vendors moonshiners of the discovery channel car and bike show, and more so, go to the hillbilly jam.com or 82845-079795.00:04:10.560 –> 00:04:16.890 Joseph McElroy: This year is the 55th season of the shindig on the green presented by the folk heritage committee.00:04:18.090 –> 00:04:18.750 Joseph McElroy: Along with.00:04:19.800 –> 00:04:28.980 Joseph McElroy: headlining sponsor Allen's jewelry and pawn Finkelstein's loan office but it's a free event in the heart of downtown Ashville it goes over several days during the summer.00:04:30.090 –> 00:04:41.820 Joseph McElroy: And then the left to the left the days left in July or the 17th of 24th of the 31st as well as the August 14 and 20 21st and the heart.00:04:42.090 –> 00:04:57.420 Joseph McElroy: Of downtown Asheville parks what pack squares park Roger part pack square park called Roger McGuire Green that's pack square park Roger McQueen's that Roger McGuire Green I gotta learn to say that.00:04:59.400 –> 00:05:16.410 Joseph McElroy: it's got lots of music lots of vendors it's a great thing to go to has been going for 55 years I'm sure you'll find it, this is also the of the 94th annual mountain dance and folk festival as a ticketed event at the Pinsky hall auditorium at unc Asheville which is.00:05:18.450 –> 00:05:28.380 Joseph McElroy: 300 liberty lane Ashville it takes place every each of the nights Thursday through Saturday 6:30pm nightly.00:05:29.730 –> 00:05:30.150 Joseph McElroy: and00:05:31.170 –> 00:05:43.080 Joseph McElroy: I think the upcoming dates are August 5 Sixth and Seventh, so I advise you to go, that was a 94-year event, it has to be doing something else, and it showcases music dancers, and storytellers.00:05:43.650 –> 00:05:55.110 Joseph McElroy: And today, I have great and fabulous guests he is Neil Hutcheson is an award-winning filmmaker photographer, and author, who has one, among other things, three.00:05:55.770 –> 00:06:00.630 Joseph McElroy: One, among other things, three Emmy awards his work has been featured on.00:06:01.410 –> 00:06:12.180 Joseph McElroy: PBS the history channel discovery others he resides in Raleigh North Carolina where he works as a producer and director of the language and LIFE project for nc State University.00:06:12.540 –> 00:06:25.740 Joseph McElroy: But he also spent a great deal of time and the great smokies which have been the location of several of his most popular projects and famous subjects like popcorn suck Hello Neal,00:06:26.190 –> 00:06:27.840 Neal Hutcheson: hi thanks for having me.00:06:28.290 –> 00:06:32.520 Joseph McElroy: Oh I'm so glad, so you grew up in Chapel Hill right.00:06:32.910 –> 00:06:34.170 Neal Hutcheson: I did that's right yep.00:06:34.620 –> 00:06:42.360 Joseph McElroy: cool and then you went to Boone translate in Spain, and then the Raleigh where you studied at NC state is that all correct.00:06:42.510 –> 00:06:43.980 Neal Hutcheson: yeah you've got my whole rap sheet.00:06:45.450 –> 00:06:46.230 Joseph McElroy: sheet right.00:06:46.440 –> 00:06:48.480 Joseph McElroy: Well, I want to do so, I had to notice it.00:06:49.230 –> 00:06:50.520 Neal Hutcheson: Okay okay all right.00:06:51.360 –> 00:06:59.370 Joseph McElroy: So imagine you could have a pretty good conversation about basketball right yeah are you a fan of North Carolina sports.00:06:59.700 –> 00:07:06.960 Neal Hutcheson: Well, you know you can't really ignore them and growing up in Chapel hill like it was like you know it.00:07:07.590 –> 00:07:08.610 Neal Hutcheson: was like you know you.00:07:08.700 –> 00:07:13.920 Neal Hutcheson: got you your Carolina blue it's you know you don't even have a choice.00:07:14.670 –> 00:07:17.700 Joseph McElroy: You don't I mean and you would probably run a town if you didn't.00:07:19.680 –> 00:07:27.990 Joseph McElroy: It was a college town so but it's a great college and I went there a few times you know to see Duke Carolina but.00:07:29.460 –> 00:07:31.110 Joseph McElroy: I enjoyed it so.00:07:31.350 –> 00:07:34.380 Joseph McElroy: I grew up in a very strong culture part of the state of North.00:07:34.380 –> 00:07:35.010 Carolina.00:07:36.090 –> 00:07:53.220 Joseph McElroy: But you obviously you're a gifted art artist, with a passion for history and music and culture and colorful characters I understand to cut your teeth professionally by working with the NC State University linguist wall from and some other social scientist.00:07:54.420 –> 00:07:55.230 Neal Hutcheson: yeah that's it.00:07:57.960 –> 00:08:05.520 Neal Hutcheson: I'm hit the ground with working with Walt and doing language programs, I mean that's kind of what brought me to the mountains in the first place.00:08:05.850 –> 00:08:13.560 Joseph McElroy: yeah it was that is that when you did your for your sort of first real big step for a career when you did a film called mountain talk.00:08:14.190 –> 00:08:16.590 Neal Hutcheson: yeah that film was pivotal.00:08:17.640 –> 00:08:32.250 Neal Hutcheson: For sure um and I'd say you know that was the first full-length documentary that I had done and, and it really allowed me to spend a lot of time up there, where you are right now man and to meet people and just to kind of.00:08:33.420 –> 00:08:36.330 Neal Hutcheson: absorb the culture, the local culture.00:08:36.630 –> 00:08:41.580 Joseph McElroy: Is do you feel I mean, since you came through linguist do you think the sound of language is a.00:08:42.720 –> 00:08:43.890 Joseph McElroy: entree into your art.00:08:45.660 –> 00:08:54.960 Neal Hutcheson: I think um I always looked at language as an entree into the culture, you know so it's a different direction into looking at culture in it and it and it uh.00:08:55.560 –> 00:09:10.200 Neal Hutcheson: it's incredibly illuminating to look at the culture that way, instead of kind of you know, as opposed to whatever head-on, you know it's kind of a backdoor to looking at culture and the more you look at it it's incredibly fascinating.00:09:11.100 –> 00:09:15.780 Joseph McElroy: When you were young are you interested in language, are you addressing.00:09:16.020 –> 00:09:16.500 No.00:09:18.090 –> 00:09:19.440 Neal Hutcheson: totally unexpected yeah.00:09:20.880 –> 00:09:25.950 Neal Hutcheson: yeah I know, I find it interesting, but you know anything that you study becomes interesting.00:09:27.150 –> 00:09:30.030 Neal Hutcheson: The more you know about it um but.00:09:31.140 –> 00:09:39.720 Neal Hutcheson: No it's just that I happened to be at nc state, I was doing educational programs people said that what will for me to a video dude this was in the 90s.00:09:40.170 –> 00:09:50.520 Neal Hutcheson: And I stepped in his office and I said I you know if you have work, you know I can help you I'm freelancing and he said, are you any good, and I said, you know I think so so.00:09:51.300 –> 00:09:57.480 Neal Hutcheson: And so we started working and then that that has turned out to be a very fruitful collaboration and I'm still working with them.00:09:58.110 –> 00:09:59.190 Joseph McElroy: Is that how you been.00:10:00.750 –> 00:10:03.300 Joseph McElroy: With the job is a third of that relationship.00:10:03.480 –> 00:10:16.410 Neal Hutcheson: Yeah it wasn't a full-time gig you know, I was reluctant to let go of free time to do my own projects, so it wasn't a full-time gig for many years, but um I've still found time to do my own work as well on the side.00:10:17.160 –> 00:10:18.930 Joseph McElroy: What do you do at the language of my project.00:10:19.920 –> 00:10:21.300 Neal Hutcheson: Well, I produced documentaries.00:10:21.540 –> 00:10:24.270 Neal Hutcheson: but it's you know it's I'm.00:10:25.950 –> 00:10:31.980 Neal Hutcheson: Producing a documentary is do is wearing many, many hats, so I do a lot of things.00:10:32.790 –> 00:10:42.600 Neal Hutcheson: Right now, and preparing for a trip to Ghana, in August production trip and so very little of what I do is would be what people think of as production right now it's I'm not doing any editing or shooting.00:10:43.290 –> 00:10:49.140 Neal Hutcheson: Which is what I prefer to be doing, but you also have to do a lot of planning prep from you know logistical.00:10:51.330 –> 00:10:53.790 Neal Hutcheson: preparations and things like that too it's part of the job.00:10:55.530 –> 00:11:03.600 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know I'm interested I always like to know the origins of people's craft and you know I'm also an artist and it always.00:11:04.050 –> 00:11:08.460 Joseph McElroy: Had but I came at it, I had no clue I was going to be an artist, and so the.00:11:08.910 –> 00:11:15.780 Joseph McElroy: Even analyzing myself trying to figure out where where where the where is the evolution and all of a sudden, you become an artist, yeah a lot of people grow up.00:11:16.080 –> 00:11:23.400 Joseph McElroy: and consider themselves artists from the womb and other people just discovered along the way, where are you from the womb, or it is covered along the way.00:11:23.820 –> 00:11:28.650 Neal Hutcheson: Definitely along the way, and you know it'd be interesting, I don't know if you want to talk more about that, in particular, right now.00:11:29.070 –> 00:11:37.770 Neal Hutcheson: With limited time but you know to be interesting to know how you got started because for me it was kind of a lifeline that came to me unexpectedly in my college years.00:11:39.000 –> 00:11:49.800 Neal Hutcheson: I was kind of an intense young person with a lot going on, but I didn't have any means of self-expression, you know, and one way or another it's got to come out.00:11:50.400 –> 00:12:02.730 Neal Hutcheson: And I didn't have the discipline to develop skills that at writing at that time or at painting or some other craft to kind of get it out so I'm filmmaking kind of landed in my lap.00:12:04.410 –> 00:12:22.380 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know my story is actually fairly quick yeah I was arrogant a technology guy and somebody showed me some art and I looked at it and I didn't understand it, and I said, well, I can do that, and they said, well then do it and that started me on a journey of.00:12:22.740 –> 00:12:24.180 Joseph McElroy: Personal that I couldn't do it.00:12:26.070 –> 00:12:37.200 Joseph McElroy: yeah and a lot more depth and meaning and that journey led me along the way, but it was me being an arrogant ignorant cus that started my journey.00:12:39.090 –> 00:12:39.780 Neal Hutcheson: I love to hear.00:12:40.410 –> 00:12:40.830 yeah.00:12:41.910 –> 00:12:49.530 Joseph McElroy: Well we'll come back we'll jump into some of the stuff that you've done and dig deeper into your art and this way rooms.00:12:49.740 –> 00:12:50.100 Neal Hutcheson: Thank you.00:15:15.270 –> 00:15:26.340 Joseph McElroy: Oh sorry I was muted, so this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest Neal Hutcheson, Neal has an idea how you doing.00:15:26.970 –> 00:15:30.150 Joseph McElroy: Great Yes, that was my awkward entry.00:15:31.320 –> 00:15:33.180 Joseph McElroy: So I do that occasionally.00:15:34.980 –> 00:15:40.860 Joseph McElroy: So you know I mentioned mountain talk, but that wasn't your first documentary right.00:15:42.960 –> 00:15:46.410 Neal Hutcheson: It was probably the first one that I recognize is actually being a documentary.00:15:46.440 –> 00:15:49.920 Joseph McElroy: That was your first one that's your art okay cool.00:15:51.090 –> 00:15:51.750 Joseph McElroy: You know the.00:15:52.860 –> 00:16:01.260 Joseph McElroy: I yeah I entitled this episode outlaws and outliers because you've done some outliers and the most famous being popcorn sudden.00:16:01.680 –> 00:16:14.280 Joseph McElroy: But you've got some other you've done some documentaries and work about another you understand you had you have collaborated with a gifted writer and storyteller and play right there named Gary Carden of Cillo.00:16:15.780 –> 00:16:19.260 Joseph McElroy: And he's a colorful talented person, how did you two meet.00:16:20.430 –> 00:16:24.750 Neal Hutcheson: Well, I met him like I met so many other people when I came up here working on mountain talk.00:16:25.200 –> 00:16:34.860 Neal Hutcheson: um I spent about two years you know back and forth from Raleigh working on that particular film but I'm Gary was one of the people that I really connected with.00:16:35.340 –> 00:16:53.430 Neal Hutcheson: And of course, we've been working together, ever since um but somebody pointed him putting me in his direction, basically, they said they said he's you should talk to him, he talks about language, a little bit so that's how it started, I went and found him and I interviewed him and.00:16:55.140 –> 00:17:01.140 Neal Hutcheson: I just kept visiting him and in fact, I started working on a documentary about him in00:17:01.140 –> 00:17:03.930 Neal Hutcheson: Particular, and this is in maybe.00:17:05.460 –> 00:17:08.220 Neal Hutcheson: Alright, so I'm still hoping I'm hoping to finish it this year.00:17:09.840 –> 00:17:13.470 Joseph McElroy: Do you tell you to take your time with your subjects right.00:17:13.860 –> 00:17:17.040 Neal Hutcheson: I don't like I have any control over it sometimes they kind of work out.00:17:18.660 –> 00:17:22.530 Neal Hutcheson: process that uses me and I just think they're done when they're done, you know.00:17:23.070 –> 00:17:38.520 Joseph McElroy: So you'd Have you had him collaborate, and this is what was interesting to me the outlaw Lewis Redmond who was I guess the first king of the moonshiners, can you tell us a little bit about that project and him and it didn't he kill a man and get away with it.00:17:39.540 –> 00:17:58.800 Neal Hutcheson: yeah well, in the end, he didn't get away with that, but um yeah that's right it's a great story Lewis Redmond was, first of all, let me mention about Gary cartons also play right and the way I got onto this particular topic was Gary pardons play called the Prince of dark corners and.00:18:00.660 –> 00:18:08.970 Neal Hutcheson: And so I produced with Gary and with an actor named Milton Higgins, a really brilliant guy who, sadly, died last month, but.00:18:09.600 –> 00:18:12.510 Neal Hutcheson: So the three of us put you know did a production of that play.00:18:13.380 –> 00:18:18.810 Neal Hutcheson: that's how I got to know the story of Lewis Redmond because that's what the play was about, and then I did a follow-up documentary.00:18:19.230 –> 00:18:40.710 Neal Hutcheson: But Lewis Redmond was an outlaw active in were up where you are in southern Appalachian at the end of the 19th century, and he was active at the same time is billy the kid and Jesse James names that everybody knows, and he was actually more famous than either one of them.00:18:41.790 –> 00:18:43.740 Neal Hutcheson: Is paper articles about Lewis Redmond.00:18:44.250 –> 00:18:45.180 Neal Hutcheson: And even one of those.00:18:45.240 –> 00:18:51.180 Neal Hutcheson: Does too so that's amazing when you think about the fact that, obviously, most of your listeners have probably never heard of him.00:18:51.570 –> 00:18:55.440 Joseph McElroy: No, I didn't know until I started researching you I had never heard of them.00:18:56.460 –> 00:19:03.750 Joseph McElroy: So it's interesting, but he was quite a character, he killed the what was the Sheriff or something like that was trying to rescue.00:19:04.410 –> 00:19:06.030 Neal Hutcheson: yeah that's right.00:19:06.300 –> 00:19:07.890 Neal Hutcheson: He may have killed another man there's.00:19:08.040 –> 00:19:13.170 Neal Hutcheson: You know that that's one thing that's interesting about his story is that the historical record is very muddied.00:19:13.830 –> 00:19:15.930 Neal Hutcheson: kind of his money in a way that it's.00:19:16.110 –> 00:19:35.040 Neal Hutcheson: Interesting really reflects the kind of public media about Appalachia through a lot of America's history, which is, which is to say that in southern in mountain papers and regional papers, he was regarded as he was talked about in these very noble terms.00:19:35.430 –> 00:19:36.840 Neal Hutcheson: And in the northern papers.00:19:37.050 –> 00:19:38.550 Neal Hutcheson: He was.00:19:39.570 –> 00:19:49.110 Neal Hutcheson: talked about as a degenerate and it's outlawed and stuff like that you know and there was this very exaggerated kind of depictions of him so it's a really interesting subject.00:19:49.440 –> 00:19:54.120 Neal Hutcheson: And the truth is somewhere in the middle and nobody you know, has really sorted it all out but.00:19:54.390 –> 00:20:06.990 Joseph McElroy: Well, I mean yeah I mean you know you understand it because the moonshine was an important source of income for a lot of people, it helps save a lot of people's families at the same time, have destroyed a lot of people's families right so.00:20:07.500 –> 00:20:11.220 Joseph McElroy: Absolutely it's people used to worship the ones that could make a go of it.00:20:12.810 –> 00:20:33.390 Joseph McElroy: You know I remember growing up, you know and that which would have been the 60s, there was an early 70s, the that what people would say with it with a sort of a tongue in cheek but they would say you were more likely to get arrested for drunk driving, then you were for killing somebody.00:20:34.620 –> 00:20:36.480 Joseph McElroy: yeah yeah so.00:20:38.250 –> 00:20:48.630 Joseph McElroy: It was, it was a little bit rough and sort of some ways, but you know I read this quote from you right, I thought it was really insightful, you said you wrote you.00:20:49.260 –> 00:21:02.280 Joseph McElroy: told somebody if I forget who it was but mountain culture is surprisingly vigorous and surprisingly alive and will be until the current generation of 50 somethings dies out and it is dying out.00:21:02.760 –> 00:21:07.800 Joseph McElroy: psychologically there's a fundamental difference in the way they look at the world and treat each other.00:21:08.400 –> 00:21:19.560 Joseph McElroy: They wear masks and assume roles which is not necessarily a bad thing, but mountain people are not capable of that, I think that was like 2003 years, do you think that's still true what did you mean.00:21:20.820 –> 00:21:32.760 Neal Hutcheson: yeah I think a lot has changed since I said that, and I think what I was witnessing and what other people witnessing is the real-time change has taken place and.00:21:33.180 –> 00:21:46.110 Neal Hutcheson: um but no there's still this pockets of real mountain culture and people who come into the area can still experience that and meet people and get any you know and get to experience a little bit of that.00:21:46.650 –> 00:21:48.540 Joseph McElroy: um you know.00:21:49.380 –> 00:21:56.460 Neal Hutcheson: There is a there's a book that tends to be castigated called our southern highlanders by.00:21:56.730 –> 00:22:07.050 Neal Hutcheson: A very famous right yeah and he was right in the area like he was probably you're in Maggie Valley, right now, so he was camping you know, a couple of miles from where you're talking right now.00:22:07.410 –> 00:22:20.310 Neal Hutcheson: And when he was writing this book, so you know the people that he was writing about work if you're talking about the long term residents that are still there, they were the very people that are still there, their grandparents.00:22:20.550 –> 00:22:33.720 Neal Hutcheson: Right and um The funny thing is I got to because of my friendship with Popcorn Sutton and a few other people like I really got to see the inside of mountain culture and I'm.00:22:34.350 –> 00:22:52.260 Neal Hutcheson: Even though that book our southern Highlands is problematic and people have attacked it for good reasons, I got to see that they were very real characteristics in as people that are described perfectly in that book that was written almost 100 years ago.00:22:52.590 –> 00:22:54.930 Neal Hutcheson: mm hmm right so that shows you the strength of.00:22:55.980 –> 00:23:06.210 Neal Hutcheson: Culture and the character of the culture that, with all the changes in the last hundred years you, you still can see that same the same tendencies they're baked in.00:23:07.410 –> 00:23:07.860 Neal Hutcheson: Now.00:23:08.910 –> 00:23:14.070 Neal Hutcheson: I don't know you know what I said the quote, that you gave you know I don't know is the next generation inheriting those.00:23:15.300 –> 00:23:31.050 Joseph McElroy: University, you know this this this weekend, we had storytellers and singers over at the Meadowlark Heritage Center right and we had a 70-year-old storyteller tell a story, but he was brought there by a 20 something-year-old.00:23:32.040 –> 00:23:36.840 Joseph McElroy: Guy there who's a previous person in this podcast, Will Ritter.00:23:37.830 –> 00:23:38.580 Joseph McElroy: Yes, okay.00:23:38.910 –> 00:23:51.240 Joseph McElroy: yeah and he learned from all these old-timers you know the culture and heritage, and it was really fabulous, so there are young people out there, learning it and you know my.00:23:51.600 –> 00:24:04.020 Joseph McElroy: My family right there still people that live up in the hills and you know, are still very, very much in mountain culture, and you know it's a there's a beauty to it, I mean once you.00:24:04.530 –> 00:24:15.270 Joseph McElroy: pick you to know get through the what some people perceive is sort of the hard exterior it's a very loving culture and very funny yes yeah.00:24:16.050 –> 00:24:29.520 Neal Hutcheson: Right, you know when I was working in Cherokee which is not far from where you are a there, there was a story in there that we interviewed who suggested that I'm.00:24:30.390 –> 00:24:34.650 Neal Hutcheson: Mountain culture not only influences Cherokee culture but Cherokee called culture influence.00:24:35.190 –> 00:24:40.770 Neal Hutcheson: Mountain culture, and so what you're talking about this part of the exterior that you don't quite know.00:24:41.130 –> 00:24:49.350 Neal Hutcheson: What people are thinking you're not seeing their emotions and stuff like that, and what you get behind it it's very loving and very, very funny a lot of like.00:24:49.680 –> 00:25:01.200 Neal Hutcheson: poking fun at each other in a very smart and say like don't be fooled if you have not been to the mountains and you have the perception that you're going to be dealing with some simple yokels because they haven't necessarily been.00:25:01.710 –> 00:25:13.050 Neal Hutcheson: Like that they're going to be one step ahead of you, the whole time so like they may be making fun of you, and you never even catch it so now drop your attitude at the door, I say.00:25:15.300 –> 00:25:21.270 Joseph McElroy: Well yeah there seems to be a common thread in your work, I looked at it and you know and it's the, it is the.00:25:21.660 –> 00:25:39.570 Joseph McElroy: Preservation of various kinds of nature, culture native cultures, like the Cherokee Indian language Appalachian culture, you know African American dialects as well, as you know, mount musing moon shining so and even heritage fisheries out in the east coast so.00:25:39.840 –> 00:25:40.590 Joseph McElroy: Is that.00:25:40.650 –> 00:25:46.980 Joseph McElroy: Where your passion lies in a sort of like understanding these cultures and maybe giving a little to help preserve them.00:25:47.580 –> 00:25:59.760 Neal Hutcheson: Well, you know I would back up from preservation and say my passion really is in when I get on the scene and I find something that I'm really interested in, and I see how quickly it's changing I feel like.00:26:00.240 –> 00:26:10.770 Neal Hutcheson: You know, sometimes I feel like I am on the spot, with my experience and uh you know recording devices and I feel a duty to document things as they change.00:26:11.070 –> 00:26:11.580 Joseph McElroy: mom.00:26:12.030 –> 00:26:23.520 Neal Hutcheson: Can that lead to like preservation and specific instances, I think, so you know if people understand like fishermen like if you know.00:26:24.240 –> 00:26:29.760 Neal Hutcheson: People who are not from the community, may come down there and find them to be a very rough bunch of people they may.00:26:30.210 –> 00:26:38.220 Neal Hutcheson: have negative stereotypes about the way that they treat the resource and things like that, but then, as they get to know them that you know if they can understand their experiences a little more.00:26:38.550 –> 00:26:43.950 Neal Hutcheson: They kind of understand that it's much more nuanced than what they've been given to understand.00:26:44.370 –> 00:26:47.730 Neal Hutcheson: And though they actually will wind up being in sympathy with.00:26:47.820 –> 00:26:48.210 With.00:26:49.380 –> 00:27:06.780 Neal Hutcheson: Certain people that they might not have expected to previously because they had misconceptions about them and so can understanding people lead to I'm not doing the things that change their culture as much I, I hope, so I think so.00:27:08.160 –> 00:27:15.330 Joseph McElroy: I think, also, I think you know, yes, the world can be overwhelming at times and it can come in and try to force you to.00:27:15.690 –> 00:27:25.320 Joseph McElroy: You know, think that your culture is not important or stupid or silly and it can cause, especially younger people to say abandon it right.00:27:25.740 –> 00:27:35.250 Joseph McElroy: And I think that a lot of people can come to understand hey the culture, they grew up in was really important to who they are, and it was really beautiful and a lot of ways.00:27:35.820 –> 00:27:43.680 Joseph McElroy: Right and I, you know I started this podcast you know sort of the business intent, but you know I've also discovered that I love.00:27:44.520 –> 00:27:58.950 Joseph McElroy: You know, bringing this culture and the beauty of this culture to light, so you know I think what you're doing is fabulous in that regard so we're going to take a break and I guess we'll talk about a little bit about your famous subject.00:28:00.210 –> 00:28:00.540 Neal Hutcheson: Okay.00:28:02.880 –> 00:28:03.150 Neal Hutcheson: Good.00:30:33.480 –> 00:30:47.610 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest Neal Hutcheson so know you mentioned him and Maggie valid, but I'm actually sitting in New York City I split my time between Maggie Valley.00:30:47.640 –> 00:30:58.200 Joseph McElroy: North cal okay so, but you know I when I left the mountains, you know I had to do sort of the reverse of you, I had to go outside the world and had to get people to.00:30:58.950 –> 00:31:14.700 Joseph McElroy: You know, open up to me and accept me, you know, and you know penetrate yeah whatever cultural norms that that existed in a place like new york's always sort of slightly testing you and you have to always you know to prove that you can handle it but.00:31:15.240 –> 00:31:17.070 Joseph McElroy: You know, when you came to.00:31:18.090 –> 00:31:20.130 Joseph McElroy: The mountains there's obviously.00:31:21.480 –> 00:31:30.660 Joseph McElroy: A big testing a barrier, you know dependent trading that you know, and so, how did you get your subjects to accept you and to warm up to you.00:31:31.770 –> 00:31:42.870 Neal Hutcheson: A bit well I just spent time there and I gave them um you know I always kind of knew intuitively not to.00:31:43.950 –> 00:32:02.910 Neal Hutcheson: Try to ingratiate myself or try as if, as if they wouldn't like to see through my efforts to kind of win their trust or what you know, so I just was always mindful of just being myself and just spending enough time that I had they had a chance to assess me and.00:32:04.350 –> 00:32:08.580 Neal Hutcheson: Consider, whatever it is, you know that I was after so that was basically it.00:32:09.330 –> 00:32:17.370 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know I I knew popcorn Sutton not particularly well, but I knew I knew him and he knows, he was a real kg guy.00:32:18.300 –> 00:32:21.900 Joseph McElroy: yeah he was he yeah he was smart and he's always sort of.00:32:21.960 –> 00:32:31.200 Joseph McElroy: I always felt he was putting on a little bit of her performance because it was you know I made his money, so how did, how did you break through and get to some real honest stuff from him.00:32:32.730 –> 00:32:40.500 Neal Hutcheson: Well, it did you know it took a long time in a way to get like you know, beyond the performance but I'm.00:32:42.330 –> 00:32:52.620 Neal Hutcheson: In a way, you know not that long because I would say, you may not agree with this, I don't know, but I would say like there was always a performance in the play.00:32:53.130 –> 00:33:06.630 Neal Hutcheson: When he was dealing with the public um, but it was kind of based on who he really was, and so is interestingly, it was like the performance was kind of close to who he actually was he was just giving.00:33:07.980 –> 00:33:17.310 Neal Hutcheson: You know, certain portions of the public, maybe more more more the tourist a version of a moonshiner that they would that was what they expected.00:33:17.520 –> 00:33:20.850 Neal Hutcheson: You know and but behind the scenes, he actually was that.00:33:21.270 –> 00:33:21.750 Neal Hutcheson: So.00:33:22.110 –> 00:33:30.000 Neal Hutcheson: You know, so I think he just kind of knew where to lean in and exaggerate and things like that sometimes he could lay it on a little thick.00:33:31.740 –> 00:33:37.500 Joseph McElroy: though he was better in the mountains, we have somebody that can make a deal really well we call them a horse trader.00:33:37.980 –> 00:33:45.120 Joseph McElroy: My dad's a hell of a horse trader he's from way back in the mountains finds creek and he input popcorn Sutton get along.00:33:45.570 –> 00:34:01.740 Joseph McElroy: Along really well because my dad was a contractor and you know popcorn would need some things every once in Australia with him to get some construction done an exchange for some variables of moonshine so I ended up getting a drink some popcorn moonshine over the years.00:34:03.150 –> 00:34:12.300 Joseph McElroy: So yeah so you would say, though, that he was a master promoting themselves right and making deals to get himself known against products out there.00:34:13.710 –> 00:34:24.540 Neal Hutcheson: yeah I think he was but I, you know I just I didn't want it it's true but and but you know along the way, some people have written them off and said he wasn't a real thing he was just playing a character.00:34:25.140 –> 00:34:26.250 Joseph McElroy: It was the real thing.00:34:27.390 –> 00:34:27.930 Neal Hutcheson: Right.00:34:28.140 –> 00:34:31.650 Neal Hutcheson: Jackie I just want to emphasize that yeah there's a performance all right, but.00:34:32.010 –> 00:34:32.370 Joseph McElroy: It was.00:34:33.240 –> 00:34:39.810 Joseph McElroy: To make moonshine you have to know it's almost instinctual when the turn to when.00:34:40.680 –> 00:34:47.550 Joseph McElroy: To cut it and when to stop you know when the what point in the distilling process to pull the liquor out and that's what you're going to drink.00:34:47.940 –> 00:34:59.640 Joseph McElroy: Right and the right water and things like that, if you don't do it exactly right and have so almost instinctual thing about it it'll just taste horrible but he's always tasted really good he had an art to it.00:34:59.970 –> 00:35:06.810 Neal Hutcheson: yeah that's true that's right there's the one aspect of it, which is the craftsman and that was all true, and that was there.00:35:07.290 –> 00:35:16.470 Neal Hutcheson: And, but then you know the art of performance is something I talked about a little bit in the book that I did on popcorn and I speculate that.00:35:17.190 –> 00:35:21.720 Neal Hutcheson: I don't have any you know other sources for this, but I speculate that what you were talking about.00:35:22.110 –> 00:35:31.140 Neal Hutcheson: About horse-trading and the talent for barter in the mountains, is that the talent for performance in the mountains, which is well known and incredible.00:35:31.590 –> 00:35:40.860 Neal Hutcheson: That that developed out of the little bits that you do around trading things and the and the kind of like well you know devaluing things and just that you know.00:35:41.190 –> 00:35:57.990 Neal Hutcheson: That skill that was honed over so much time and I think that when the park was founded and outsiders came in and stuff like that that I think that that led them naturally to some of them to find inner talent for performance.00:35:58.620 –> 00:36:00.630 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know I think if you look at.00:36:00.690 –> 00:36:13.590 Joseph McElroy: The traditional storytelling amount of storytelling is often an exaggeration right I caught 50 fish in the pant leg when I fell in the water or.00:36:14.400 –> 00:36:21.120 Joseph McElroy: That sort of thing is sort of the reverse of the horse-trading, which says well these trousers are no good I couldn't catch any fish.00:36:23.160 –> 00:36:27.000 Joseph McElroy: right there like obviously opposite of the same coin.00:36:28.050 –> 00:36:28.530 Joseph McElroy: yeah.00:36:28.830 –> 00:36:35.790 Joseph McElroy: yeah so um so you've done three movies on popcorn right documentaries.00:36:36.030 –> 00:36:42.270 Neal Hutcheson: yeah it's a little bit of a complicated history but yeah technically three movies, we did a cult classic.00:36:43.020 –> 00:36:51.210 Neal Hutcheson: Well, it would become a cult classic, the first thing that I made was really for the popcorn to sell out of his junk shop and something he wanted to do.00:36:51.480 –> 00:36:59.760 Neal Hutcheson: And that one's called that one's always that one's the most popular now 20 years later um it's called this is the last time round of liquor I'll ever make.00:37:00.600 –> 00:37:02.340 Neal Hutcheson: sense yeah.00:37:02.400 –> 00:37:11.850 Neal Hutcheson: we're still it's the whole thing on YouTube if anybody wants to check it out, but people are still discovering it and it's lasted longer than anything else I've done but um.00:37:12.540 –> 00:37:26.130 Neal Hutcheson: Then I did a TV version which came out at the tail end of 2008 called the last one, and that was a PBS family-friendly kind of version of that with cutaways for context and interviews and things like that it's a.00:37:26.430 –> 00:37:26.940 Neal Hutcheson: little different.00:37:27.660 –> 00:37:31.200 Neal Hutcheson: And then I did a more biographical piece called a hell of a life.00:37:32.430 –> 00:37:38.370 Neal Hutcheson: And that came out after he died in 2009 that came out in oh I forget, but maybe 2012.00:37:39.240 –> 00:37:53.010 Joseph McElroy: yeah cool well and you've also I saw you recently you've done a book recently like it's almost like a table talk book, but so more meaningful, I mean what was how did you come about doing that.00:37:53.370 –> 00:38:01.890 Neal Hutcheson: yeah well thanks for describing it that way it's it's deliberately designed to be enjoyable if you want to flip through idly or if you want to dig in so.00:38:03.150 –> 00:38:03.870 Neal Hutcheson: I.00:38:05.580 –> 00:38:14.970 Neal Hutcheson: knew that people would want to have copies because popcorn is is well known and intriguing and so I felt a duty to make it as good as I possibly could um.00:38:15.480 –> 00:38:18.600 Neal Hutcheson: You know, in a way, I feel like I was always working on that book and I just didn't know it.00:38:19.470 –> 00:38:35.910 Neal Hutcheson: While I was doing the documentaries, the real motivation was that you know nowadays popcorn is remembered as in some quarters as something akin to a folk hero and it's a very simplified version and a very kind of.00:38:37.230 –> 00:38:41.970 Neal Hutcheson: Noble you know version of who he was is a friend of mine, okay I'm not dragging down.00:38:42.450 –> 00:38:50.160 Neal Hutcheson: And I think that folk hero is interesting, and I think that that phenomenon with him turning into a folk hero is fascinating and I talked about that in the book.00:38:50.430 –> 00:38:54.840 Neal Hutcheson: But you know, the main purpose at the start of working on the book was to.00:38:55.500 –> 00:39:06.810 Neal Hutcheson: Make sure that he's remembered as I knew him as a person I knew he would want that that he did he really didn't want to be the hero he wanted to be that law and he wanted to be who he was.00:39:07.740 –> 00:39:19.590 Neal Hutcheson: And so I think that and so the book tries, and I think, to some extent, I would say if it's okay for me to say about my own book like succeeds in capturing him, you know fairly.00:39:20.700 –> 00:39:24.060 Joseph McElroy: cool what was the name of the book again what was the full title of it.00:39:24.390 –> 00:39:26.220 Neal Hutcheson: it's called the moonshiner popcorn sun.00:39:26.460 –> 00:39:30.450 Joseph McElroy: The moon cheddar popcorn Sutton and it's available on a lot of places you go to the.00:39:31.530 –> 00:39:39.570 Joseph McElroy: I think we have it up on smokies adventure.com and the Meadowlark motel and you can probably get it on Amazon right it's a great book and there's a DVD with it right.00:39:40.140 –> 00:39:56.610 Neal Hutcheson: If you get it on Amazon you're going to pay him because I held back because I want people to buy it from local places like the meadowlark and the other places that are supporting the book and that support community and culture, so I hope people will buy local first.00:39:57.690 –> 00:40:17.310 Joseph McElroy: Nice good local living economies it's we can promote that that's important you know that's why I keep the small business I have in the mountains going is to support local economies, I think it's important yeah so and you have a publishing company and a production company.00:40:17.760 –> 00:40:20.430 Neal Hutcheson: Well I've got a publishing company, now that I've published a book.00:40:22.260 –> 00:40:36.690 Neal Hutcheson: How many more books will publish we'll see it's a lot of work turns out um but yeah I've got a production company that's basically has facilitated my own projects it's more or fewer one-man-bands of still.00:40:38.340 –> 00:40:43.500 Neal Hutcheson: In recent years, I've been collaborating with other people I'm an independent project but.00:40:45.900 –> 00:40:46.140 Neal Hutcheson: yeah.00:40:46.170 –> 00:40:52.980 Neal Hutcheson: Just I just kind of invented and improvised all along the way to make whatever it was I was doing next Hampton.00:40:53.550 –> 00:40:56.340 Joseph McElroy: Why did you call it sucker punch productions.00:40:58.110 –> 00:41:01.680 Neal Hutcheson: Well there's triple entendre in that it's.00:41:03.090 –> 00:41:07.830 Neal Hutcheson: Nothing to be worried about, but mainly you know um.00:41:09.270 –> 00:41:17.820 Neal Hutcheson: I was thinking about it sounds kind of punky and brash and I was kind of I felt as the upstart like who what right do I have to just make.00:41:18.330 –> 00:41:34.380 Neal Hutcheson: Films without anybody's permission and be the kind of like octopus character, you know supine on sucker Punch and just and you know all the different jobs that I have to have in order to make a film, you know it's not just filming and editing.00:41:35.880 –> 00:41:38.400 Neal Hutcheson: It was funny to me the different arms alright.00:41:38.820 –> 00:41:39.300 city.00:41:40.500 –> 00:41:48.720 Joseph McElroy: No, I mean it's important to have something meaningful for your company, especially if you have an inside joke, I had a company called corporate performance artists.00:41:49.080 –> 00:42:00.750 Joseph McElroy: One time because somebody asked me while I was doing art and others do raising I raised some money for a startup in the.com era and they said what the hell, are you and I said I guess I'm a corporate performance artist.00:42:03.720 –> 00:42:08.040 Joseph McElroy: I named my company that I would tell people I'm performing my company.00:42:08.220 –> 00:42:18.510 Joseph McElroy: And it was an engine, it was an inside joke, but yeah it makes it, it makes it fun, it makes it something that's personal and the little secret that you can have.00:42:19.050 –> 00:42:25.050 Neal Hutcheson: Exactly what you know if you're going to do something for yourself, you should have fun and you know indulge a little bit and make it the way you want to.00:42:25.950 –> 00:42:26.640 cool.00:42:27.810 –> 00:42:35.040 Joseph McElroy: So I think you Bob are some you working on Bob Plott do introduce us right so yeah.00:42:35.970 –> 00:42:48.600 Joseph McElroy: So you see we're gonna need to take a break now, so I want to talk about a queen family that you're working on and then we're getting sent you know so much about the mountains now when I get your favorite things to go for people to go see.00:42:49.110 –> 00:42:49.620 Neal Hutcheson: sounds good.00:42:50.040 –> 00:42:50.550 All right.00:45:23.730 –> 00:45:33.000 Joseph McElroy: Howdy this is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast with my guest Neal Hutcheson so Neil, you are working on.00:45:33.960 –> 00:45:43.200 Joseph McElroy: Something that's interesting to me, you know Maggie Valley calls itself the calling capital of the world right so we're always proud of dancing in the mountains, especially you know.00:45:44.070 –> 00:45:52.860 Joseph McElroy: square dancing and plugin so you're working on a project on the iconic queen family, one of the foremost musical advancing clans and the great smokies what you doing.00:45:54.150 –> 00:45:58.020 Neal Hutcheson: Oh well, you know that was actually a project that I did some years ago.00:45:58.380 –> 00:45:58.890 Joseph McElroy: Oh, really.00:45:59.070 –> 00:46:05.280 Neal Hutcheson: yeah it's already done and it was about music and the group that queen it, as you know, for us, you know.00:46:05.760 –> 00:46:15.690 Neal Hutcheson: yeah it's a huge huge name up there, and so there, there are great dancers, but the ones that are working with weren't really into dancing they were just in the music.00:46:15.960 –> 00:46:22.590 Neal Hutcheson: Okay, so they were in Jackson County off of Johns creek Canny fork.00:46:24.180 –> 00:46:24.960 Neal Hutcheson: You know that area.00:46:25.320 –> 00:46:27.330 Neal Hutcheson: yeah okay so.00:46:28.590 –> 00:46:37.020 Neal Hutcheson: And it was I started with Mary Jane Queen, who was the matriarch of the family and she knew balance that was hundreds of years old and so.00:46:38.430 –> 00:46:49.020 Neal Hutcheson: But I gradually got to know more of her family and they're all musical and when they get together, they would all play they're literally on the back porch and make incredible mountain music and it wasn't like it wasn't.00:46:50.160 –> 00:47:03.810 Neal Hutcheson: It was like the real thing you know it was like you just felt them expressing their love for each other by sharing that music with each other and so that's basically what I was documenting is looking at mountain culture through another window, which was, which was music.00:47:04.440 –> 00:47:08.730 Joseph McElroy: Well I'm very interested in seeing that what where do you have that documentary.00:47:09.570 –> 00:47:11.430 Neal Hutcheson: I think the whole thing is on YouTube right now.00:47:11.700 –> 00:47:12.600 Joseph McElroy: And what's it called.00:47:12.930 –> 00:47:14.070 Neal Hutcheson: it's called the Queen family.00:47:14.910 –> 00:47:15.510 Joseph McElroy: The Queen.00:47:20.040 –> 00:47:26.940 Joseph McElroy: So you bet a lot of visiting the mountains Okay, so what is your, what is your favorite natural.00:47:28.020 –> 00:47:29.340 Joseph McElroy: wonder in the mountains.00:47:30.270 –> 00:47:38.190 Neal Hutcheson: Oh that's a good question um you know I used to come up there backpacking a lot when I was a kid and I didn't know anything about the culture, but I really enjoyed the.00:47:38.790 –> 00:47:50.130 Neal Hutcheson: landscape and just interacting with the wild spaces and my favorite place was always Joyce Kilmer slick rock area, which is adjacent to Graham county.00:47:50.640 –> 00:47:53.580 Joseph McElroy: yeah what was that, what do you find special about that.00:47:54.540 –> 00:48:04.440 Neal Hutcheson: Well, I like to the trails you know for backpacking but then you know, one of the really special things about that spot is that they preserved, a small.00:48:05.310 –> 00:48:20.940 Neal Hutcheson: selection and that that was never logged right, so all the mountains most a lot of people don't even know this, that the great Appalachian wilderness was was absolutely incredible with these huge trees, there were 12 feet in diameter and those are all gone, they were all logged.00:48:21.360 –> 00:48:32.640 Neal Hutcheson: And um what we see now is what runs back right and it's beautiful but it's not the wild place that was there before and so Joyce Kilmer you could see that and.00:48:33.360 –> 00:48:39.300 Neal Hutcheson: You know the last time I went as the storm and taken out a lot of the big trees, unfortunately, it was kind of sad but it's still there.00:48:39.510 –> 00:48:46.050 Neal Hutcheson: And you can go there and park and there are short trails you can walk you don't have to go backpacking anything like that you can walk half a mile or a mile.00:48:46.320 –> 00:48:49.350 Neal Hutcheson: and get back in there cool and they create is just gorgeous.00:48:49.950 –> 00:48:54.300 Joseph McElroy: Oh yeah I haven't actually visited there, so I need to do that, that sounds really like a wonderful time.00:48:55.560 –> 00:49:05.070 Joseph McElroy: Now, your new popcorn sudden so you know a little bit about the distilleries I think you were involved with the moonshine or should they still have it right, it was inspired by your movie anyway.00:49:05.850 –> 00:49:07.050 Neal Hutcheson: I believe that it was.00:49:07.140 –> 00:49:20.310 Joseph McElroy: yeah so so you know local distillery So is there any of them doing anything any a quote-unquote moonshine it's not real moonshine if it's legal but moonshine that's pretty good compared to popcorn to brew.00:49:20.700 –> 00:49:23.340 Neal Hutcheson: Well, you know a lot of these things have sprung up fairly recently.00:49:23.670 –> 00:49:30.420 Neal Hutcheson: yeah and there's you know there's a lot of good beer, you can get in the mountains Now I will not turn down a good hipster IPA.00:49:32.430 –> 00:49:40.500 Neal Hutcheson: And you can find them whether you're in silver or there's a great place and Bryson city, but anyway and an inhaler brewing company I think they're called.00:49:40.800 –> 00:49:42.930 Joseph McElroy: I go to the gym in Waynesville yeah.00:49:43.200 –> 00:49:46.530 Neal Hutcheson: there's good beer around but it's not you know that's nothing traditional.00:49:46.740 –> 00:49:47.250 Neal Hutcheson: yeah i'm.00:49:47.730 –> 00:49:51.930 Neal Hutcheson: The only distillery that I know anything about is elevated mountain in.00:49:52.650 –> 00:50:02.400 Neal Hutcheson: In Maggie valley and I think people should go check it out, and they should see that because I'm the proprietor Dave Angel he puts on a great tour, and you get to sample the stuff.00:50:02.820 –> 00:50:12.150 Neal Hutcheson: And it's good quality and he's from there, and I think I'm not quite sure about his whole story, but I think he's he's like you in that he's been elsewhere and comes back.00:50:12.720 –> 00:50:15.600 Joseph McElroy: yeah he was actually in New York for a little while but he's a cousin he's my cousin.00:50:18.630 –> 00:50:19.110 Joseph McElroy: Down there.00:50:21.480 –> 00:50:36.450 Joseph McElroy: Let me do you go to sell a lot and that's a wonderful town, what would you say is a great itinerary one to build visit silver, starting with breakfast you know and then where you might go in the morning, then lunch in the afternoon and dinner in the evening for entertainment.00:50:37.110 –> 00:50:47.820 Neal Hutcheson: Well, silver has changed a lot, too, is it's developed but um it always had a little bit of stuff going on because it's its proximity to Western Carolina university um but.00:50:48.930 –> 00:50:53.610 Neal Hutcheson: You know, and you can spend a day in Silva and you can find good food morning.00:50:54.990 –> 00:51:05.760 Neal Hutcheson: morning, day and night but um if I was going up there and somebody was going up to explore the area, I would say, getting your current in or in motorcycle whatever drive a little bit and get around.00:51:06.240 –> 00:51:06.570 Joseph McElroy: and00:51:07.380 –> 00:51:14.280 Neal Hutcheson: I always like to in fact I just mentioned Joyce Kilmer well that's close to robin's bill and Robin so.00:51:15.030 –> 00:51:28.590 Neal Hutcheson: The last time I was there doesn't have a lot going on, but I always love going to Robin so you really feel like you're getting back into a mountain Community um and there's a place there, I think it's called lose know it's called.00:51:30.090 –> 00:51:42.540 Neal Hutcheson: Lucy lens something like lens place it's had different names of the rooms, but it's top of the hill one and robin's bill, and you won't miss it because there's not much else around and it's just a diner you're going to get breakfast there you're going to get regular.00:51:43.650 –> 00:51:48.270 Neal Hutcheson: You know diner kind of breakfast food, but what you're also going to get is you're going to be around local people.00:51:48.720 –> 00:51:59.070 Neal Hutcheson: In there and they're going to be friendly they're probably curious about what you're doing and it won't be hard to strike up a conversation, which I highly recommend and start your morning out that way.00:51:59.400 –> 00:52:07.350 Neal Hutcheson: that's fabulous right Okay, and then you can take a nice drive, if you want to go by Joyce Kilmer you take the roadster curvy and beautiful motorcyclists love them.00:52:07.650 –> 00:52:15.420 Neal Hutcheson: And you can take you can go I've never spent much time at Fontana village, but if you like, that kind of thing there's a lot of stuff out there.00:52:15.660 –> 00:52:17.070 Joseph McElroy: Historical stuff yeah.00:52:17.460 –> 00:52:26.850 Neal Hutcheson: And, and then you can see Fontana damn which is impressive a piece of work, and circle back around and come back to silver for lunch.00:52:27.330 –> 00:52:40.170 Neal Hutcheson: And you don't want to miss the coffee shop because it's just another place where real people gather it's been there forever, my friend Gary Carden who's now at six I think IQ as a kid he.00:52:40.890 –> 00:52:43.830 Neal Hutcheson: What do you call it car hopped or whatever he brought the burgers out to people in the car.00:52:44.880 –> 00:52:45.660 Joseph McElroy: coffee shop.00:52:46.380 –> 00:52:49.110 Neal Hutcheson: coffee shop, the signing, and so on, the main road gold and silver.00:52:51.030 –> 00:53:00.570 Neal Hutcheson: And they're going to have country food it's going to be hardy fair they're gonna have a special of the day they're going to cook a good meal, you probably need to take a walk afterward if you're planning to have dinner because you'd be full.00:53:00.960 –> 00:53:01.320 But.00:53:02.370 –> 00:53:09.000 Neal Hutcheson: But again it's also we're working people look people are going to go to so that's why I would give those answers.00:53:10.590 –> 00:53:19.530 Neal Hutcheson: And then, because you had me thinking about this before, so I was there was a place this place in Bryson City, so if you want to go for a really fine meal after.00:53:20.220 –> 00:53:31.710 Neal Hutcheson: All that um there's a place called the pork and bean in Bryson city and they cook they've got a great Jeff there and they and they cook a lot of like fresh healthy.00:53:34.020 –> 00:53:36.810 Neal Hutcheson: freshly sourced fair original.00:53:38.130 –> 00:53:43.410 Neal Hutcheson: an original menu oftentimes you can get mountain trout which is my favorite So if you can.00:53:43.440 –> 00:53:46.560 Joseph McElroy: Get that I would recommend getting it done well it's, the best thing to get.00:53:46.590 –> 00:53:55.230 Joseph McElroy: In the mountains yeah cool well, we have a few minutes left How do people get in touch with you or follow you and keep track of what you're doing?00:53:56.790 –> 00:54:00.750 Neal Hutcheson: Well um I'd say you know if you want to check out the work.00:54:01.050 –> 00:54:13.860 Neal Hutcheson: there's a lot of like extra clips and especially a lot with Popcorn Sutton on my YouTube channel and it's sucker punch pictures just look up that on YouTube you'll find a lot of clips and stuff like that and see what that's about um and.00:54:15.300 –> 00:54:32.700 Neal Hutcheson: If you let's see I don't know I've got a personal website Neil Hutchison.com, so you can see past projects and links to other things Oh, and also the language and languageinlife.org which is my work at nc state, which is a large part of what I've done over the last 30 years.00:54:33.420 –> 00:54:48.840 Joseph McElroy: cool well, thank you very much for being on my podcast has been very enjoyable having a conversation with you and very illuminating I really appreciate the work that you do, and you know documenting the culture of the mountains.00:54:50.010 –> 00:55:02.010 Joseph McElroy: You know I think there was a period of time that there was a unique culture is still there, but it is, it is disappearing somewhat so understanding and preserving and I think is great.00:55:03.330 –> 00:55:15.360 Joseph McElroy: I want to remind everybody this podcast is on the talkradio.NYC network with there are lots of fabulous podcasts for you to listen to me for a few commercials if you've listened to it, live.00:55:16.080 –> 00:55:25.710 Joseph McElroy: After this show is rediscovering New York on Tuesday nights from seven to eight or seven to eight.00:55:26.280 –> 00:55:35.760 Joseph McElroy: it's about visiting New York and there's a lot of inside stuff and unique culture of New York to explore as part of why I love being here when I when I'm not in the mountains.00:55:36.480 –> 00:55:43.800 Joseph McElroy: Is the uniqueness of culture in New York City and the multiple cultures that you can experience here, so this show is great to go visit you can.00:55:44.550 –> 00:55:51.510 Joseph McElroy: You can also watch this podcast on Facebook.com/gateway to the smokies podcast where.00:55:51.870 –> 00:55:57.720 Joseph McElroy: The live stream comes out with the zoom So you can see our faces, or you can go to the gatewaytothesmokies.fun.00:55:58.050 –> 00:56:09.630 Joseph McElroy: To see this podcast and other previous podcasts as well as the signing up for the newsletter be informed about events and future episodes and other things that we will do to00:56:10.050 –> 00:56:19.500 Joseph McElroy: illustrate and celebrate the culture of the smoky mountains and for things to do there and enjoy yourself that he much I'll see you next week when we have.00:56:20.430 –> 00:56:34.650 Joseph McElroy: For our show will be Wayne Ebinger, who is a well-known photographer in the smoky mountains and it has experienced a lot and we'll talk about the beauty of the smoky mountains talk to you soon.

In this episode of Startup Hustle, Matt DeCoursey and Erik Perkins, President of Perkins Enterprises talk about homebuilder entrepreneurship. Find Startup Hustle Everywhere: https://linktr.ee/startuphustle This episode is sponsored by Lending Standard: https://www.lendingstandard.com/ Learn more about Perkins Enterprises: https://perkinscustomhomes.com/ Learn more about Full Scale: https://fullscale.io/   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today's guest is Wendy Meyers, a renowned historian, and researcher, described as "the best of the Smoky Mountain history detectives --bar none" by historian and author, Bob Plott. Wendy has worked for over 20 years in the pharmaceutical industry, where she works as a regulatory writer in drug development. In her spare time, she enjoys hiking, cycling, and historical research. Since 2013, she has maintained a blog, “Reflections of Olde Swain”, that seeks to preserve the history of Swain County.Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.Show NotesSegment 1Joseph starts off today's episode by letting us know that we will be cycling through the Smoky Mountains' past as well as literally talking about cycling through the Smoky Mountains. He then introduces guest and renowned historian Wendy Meyers. Wendy talks about her journey to becoming both a historian and regulatory writer in drug development.Segment 2Joseph asks Wendy what her favorite stories or work she is proudest of that is on her blog. She dives into some of her favorite work she has gotten the chance to do, including research on victims of murders and discovering the history of specific graves. She then goes into talking about her favorite places to hike in the Smoky Mountains area and gives examples of how they hold historical significance. Wendy also talks about the type of wildlife she generally sees while hiking in this area.Segment 3Wendy talks about what makes her favorite hiking spots special to her. Joseph then asks Wendy for recommendations for people who want to visit the area. As far as hikes, she recommends trails where one can see waterfalls, beautiful views, and even some wildlife. She recommends hikes that are short, hikes that are more challenging, and some overnight hikes. Wendy then goes on to talk about what trails she recommends for cycling through the Smoky Mountain area.Segment 4Joseph asks Wendy to give some advice to someone if they were to hypothetically only have one day in Bryson City. She recommends a breakfast place, a hike, a lunch place, a mountain farm, dinner, and even a historical place to sleep. Wendy then ends the podcast by giving out some ways to follow her work.

Today's guest is Janet McCue, she enjoyed a great career as former Director of the Mann Library at Cornell University while earning a stellar reputation as an award-winning independent writer and researcher. She is an avid hiker and naturalist who often visits and writes about the Great Smokies.She has collaborated with renowned local naturalist, George Ellison on several literary projects -most notably, “Back Of Beyond --A Horace Kephart Biography,” a winner of the prestigious Thomas Wolfe Literary Award. The book has received rave reviews across the United States. She is currently working on a documentary film on another interesting artist of the Smokies, George Masa.‍Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.Show NotesSegment 1Joseph starts today's episode by introducing today's topic, the role of photography in the creation of the national park. He just got back from the Smokies and was excited by the bewilderment his family found in the mountains. He discusses the coming group of cicadas that only come out every 13-17 years, and are present in huge numbers. He discusses a man helping to discover butterflies in the mountains, and a funny quote from him. On Friday, May 21, he is speaking to educate the public on butterflies. He introduces the annual speaker series coming up and talks about the wildflower season in the mountains. He talks about a website that does daily haiku's, which had a very fitting one for this conversation as it related to wildflowers. Joseph introduces today's guest, Janet McCue, and her expansive career. Even though she lives in New York, Janet has contributed much to the mountains, working on projects relating to some of its founders, Horace Kephart and George Masa. Janet discusses some of her accomplishments working at Cornell University as a librarian, comparing her job to that of Horace Kephart's. She talks about creating a flexible library that blended digital and print in a space made in the 1930's. Joseph actually has works in the library Janet worked in and the two share a laugh about this. Joseph highlights two of Janet's big accomplishments from her time at the library.Segment 2Coming back from the break, Janet and Joseph joke about sharing a drink at the Cornell club, and Joseph akss how Janet got into writing her book about Horace Kephart. While she may not have had many connections to Horace or his life, Janet's husband owned a book by him, and the bigger draw to his stories for Janet was the affinity she found for the mountains after backpacking in the Smokies. After learning that Horace had been a librarian, she wrote a paper about him, doing a lot of research about him and becoming even more interested in his life. Both Janet and Horace's careers actually began at Cornell. After having kids and a busy career in which she put Horace on the backburner, Janet realized that doing something with her Kephart research was on her bucket list. She applied for a research leave, travelling collections in different libraries and meeting people with ties to his life. This led to a collaboration with another writer in which she helped to write an introduction which ended up turning into her biography of Horace. She discusses memories she has of falling in love with the Smokies when she was young. The two share stories of food and hiking spots in the mountains.Segment 3Next Janet discusses the motivation for publishing the book with the Great Smoky Mountains Associations, wanting to make sure that the profits from the book were given back to the park, something that reflected Kephart's own life as he gave a lot to the park. Joseph talks about his own experience with the GSMA, also wanting to support the park. The two move on to George Masa, another interesting artist of the Smokies. Janet looks at the photos of Masa and the words of Kephart together as good partners in helping the nation get to know the Smokies. Their art helped to reach the nation and inform it of why the park needed protection. She reads a quote from Kephart detailing the uniqueness and exceptionality of Masa's photography. Joseph discusses Rockefeller contributing to the park as a result of Masa's photos and Janet talks about this as well as his Masa's photos being sent to other important figures of that time. Masa came to the US from Japan, never becoming a citizen, and even though there is much documentation of his life in the US, there is little known of his early life. Janet discusses documentaries on Masa as well as some of his work in the early development of Asheville.Segment 4Moving into the last segment of the day, Joseph introduces an anecdote about Masa's burial. He died during the depression and was unable to afford to be buried next to Kephart, which was his wish. Neither were buried in the Smokies though. Horace was buried in Bryson City, but has a tombstone in Ithaca as his wife was buried there. Although he may have died poor, many cared for Masa, getting money together to erect a tombstone in his honor. Janet talks about her upcoming book, and the difficulty she has found doing research on his early life as Japan is having a resurgence in COVID-19 cases. Janet talks about other things going on in her life, such as being a grandparent with another grandchild on the way. She moves on to talk about dedications for her book on Kephart and people who helped her with different parts of the book. On top of having many people who helped her with her book on Kephart, she has similar stories for her upcoming book on Masa. Joseph ends tonight's episode by sharing resources of his where he can be reached and where he has materials related to the podcast as well as a preview of next week's episode's guest.

Join us for a conversation with Erik and Jamie Perkins of Perkins Enterprises out of Bryson City, NC. The Perkins brothers shared with us their unique path of getting into the construction industry. They worked under their Dad who taught them how to design and build custom homes. They also shared great advice for any young person looking to get into the construction industry. Lean in as we have a great time getting to know Erik and Jamie Perkins. Perkins Brothers YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/37Yu5d5 Check out our YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/zO0T45txdoU Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/laying-foundations

Matt Huett considers himself a learner, an asker of questions and a provoker of all things unaware. His quest for the holiness of wholeness has seen him venture far from his rural roots in Alabama to the hall of academia in central Florida, the glocal neighborhoods of New York City and now the healing mountains of Western North Carolina. Matt has pastored, professored, poured, performed and pedaled pedagogy in all types of environments and to all manners of people. Traveling from simplicity to complexity and then to perplexity before landing on harmony, his goal is to taste the oneness of it all and to share that taste with any and all that he meets. He digs all things art, sports and books, is a master at tsundoku, and loves to chat about existentialism, emergence, theopoetics and transhumanism over copious cups of coffee. Currently Matt is the families Pastor at The Grove Church in Bryson City and teaches Science at Swain County High School. He's finishing a doctorate in spirituality this year from Portland Theological Seminary ad hopes to begin a Masters degree in STEM at Western Carolina University. He lives with his wife and best friend, the outstanding and outlandish, Nicole along with 3 geriatric dogs and a newly acquired kitten. This was a deeply profound and captivating conversation with one of my closest mentors and friends. This man has helped me experience Gods grace like never before. Katelynn and I hope you enjoy our conversation with one of our favorite people in the world, the amazing Matt Huett. 

This week, we will discuss the 5 Entrances to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park on the North Carolina side of the park.We will explore not only the wonderful natural features, but the small mountain towns near the entrances.‍Tune in for this fun conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.Show NotesSegment 1Joseph introduces the segments of today's episode, which will discuss the entrances to the smokies. Joseph found out today that his wife and son got through covid without telling anybody, going into detail about the origin of his son's stoicism. He recites a poem he found that talks about the laid back and free way of living the Smokies bring about. In the last year, the mountains have seen a 16% increase in tourism because people go there to be at ease and feel safe. Joseph talks about the awe these mountains inspire, the twists and turns within, and how this beauty extends into the winter. Every visit is a new adventure, even on the same trails, leaving you feeling refreshed when you go home. When Franklin Roosevelt dedicated this park, he discussed its natural beauty and how it must be preserved. Joseph relates to this as these mountains are home for him, he enjoys the city life and has lived in a variety of places, but always finds himself back in the Smokies.Segment 2An important cultural aspect, the entrances to the smokies can be a fun topic to navigate, with crowds looking for secret ones and fun ones. Growing up, Joseph didn't know where the entrances were, he would go on a trail or a drive and end up in the mountains. The concept of the entrances was new to Joseph, requiring some research even though he grew up a native. Newfound Gap Road, a section of US 441, got its name because it was just that, new found. Indian gap was thought to be the lowest gap until this was found. The Indian culture of Cherokee still remains, along with its beautiful waterfalls and attractions. The masks of the indigenous people are still sold, not as a product of cultural appropriation, rather a means of supporting families. Another tradition in Cherokee culture are storytelling bonfires, which are enjoyed by families and individuals. In addition to the old traditions, casinos have been built, bringing a different crowd and a different type of attention. Joseph reads a quote discussing the approach the Cherokee take to their culture. The next entrance is the Blue Ridge Parkway entrance.On the Blue Ridge Parkway is a visitor center, one of four in the park. The visitor center runs a variety of programs, some led by rangers. There is also a farm museum, which gives an accurate display of farm life in the mountains. On that parkway is a gristle mill, great campgrounds, picnic areas, and trails. The parkway leads to the Sugarlands Valley Nature trail, which is the largest entrance to the park. The Newfound Gap Road runs between the two largest entrances to the park.Segment 3Joseph's favorite entrance is one of the most remote, in the Cataloochee Valley near where he grew up. As a kid, he would go hiking there with his family. In the valley there are a lot of old community buildings that have been preserved. There is a greater diversity of birds in the Smoky mountains than anywhere else. There is also great fishing in the mountains. In 2001, the national park service reintroduced Elk to the park in the valley. The Elk have thrived in the park since being reintroduced to their natural habitat. Often the roads getting into the park through the valley get closed as there are many twists and turns. The Elk have different seasons throughout the year, such as the calving season. By June the calves are out, and in mid summer they can be seen out grazing. The fall is the mating season, the Elk can be heard and seen fighting for mates. They can be hard to find in the winter though. The Cataloochee is home to many great trails that take you to a variety of destinations within the park. Cataloochee is located within Jonathan Creek Valley, where Joseph grew up. Joseph's parents bought the Meadowlark hotel about 45 years ago, moving the family to Maggie Valley. This valley has grown into a small tourist town, remaining to this day home to the authentic mountain culture. The valley is home to world renowned museums, ski resorts, distilleries, and many more attractions.Segment 4Not far from Maggie valley is another entrance to the Smokies in a little town called Bryson City, which is known for its white water rafting. There is a train museum there along with the Smoky railroad, which takes tourists around the towns in the Smoky Mountains. One of the entrances near Bryson City is Deep Creek, which is just three miles from the city. There are amazing trails to hike with beautiful waterfalls. After a few days of rain, many creeks throughout the Smokies are home to great tubing. Lakeview Drive, otherwise known as The Road to Nowhere is another entrance, has a tunnel which runs for miles and leads to a trail. The trail contains old buildings, a lake, and is an outlet to many of the major trails. The final entrance is near Fontana Lake. Besides Cataloochee valley, this is the most remote entrance as you need to take a boat across a lake to get there. Joseph's family owns the Meadowlark Hotel in Maggie Valley. It is a great location for weddings, hosts barbecues, and has great live music. Next week, Bob Plott will guest on the show.

Dr C revisits the idea of a genetic "bottleneck" and explains why the 'out of Africa' bottleneck would have been a disaster for our species. Location: Silvermine Commercial Take-out #3, Nantahala National Forest, Bryson City, North Carolina Links: Why you shouldn't marry your cousin The genetic effects of the population bottleneck associated with the Genesis Flood The Non-Mythical Adam and Eve! The Waiting Time Problem Most new mutations are quickly lost Intro Music by Xihcsr Intro Graphics by MattWalkerVideo