Podcast appearances and mentions of James Hillman

Gustavo Barcellos é escritor e psicólogo, analista didata da Associação Junguiana do Brasil e membro da Associação Internacional de Psicologia Analítica. Membro fundador doInstituto Mantiqueira de Psicologia Arquetípica-IMPAR. Autor de O irmão: psicologia do arquétipo fraterno, Psique & Imagem, O banquete de psique: imaginação, cultura e psicologia da alimentação, Mitologias Arquetípicas, Zeus: fabulação do mundo e paternidade arquetípica, e Fronteiras: ensaios de psicologia arquetípica, todos pela Editora Vozes. Conferencista com trabalhos apresentados no Brasil e no exterior, coordena seminários de psicologia arquetípica desde 1985 e é o tradutor de vários títulos de James Hillman, analista pós-junguiano e iniciador da psicologia arquetípica. Trabalha há mais de 35 anos como analista em São Paulo

Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. For more, visit dreamtending.com.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

In an era of climate anxiety, political polarization, and economic uncertainty, suggesting optimism might seem tone-deaf or naive. But what if optimism isn't about ignoring reality but instead equips us to face it more effectively?Today, we explore the counterintuitive power of hopeful thinking in difficult moments. Drawing on both cutting-edge psychology and James Hillman's intriguing "acorn theory," we'll share practical techniques for nurturing genuine optimism without falling into toxic positivity or denial. Perfect for anyone feeling overwhelmed by current events who wants to rediscover purpose and possibility without sacrificing realism.

Part 1 of this discussion examines psychology, philosophy, religion, spiritually, science, and medicine, a panel of five (5) people opens with the question, 'where am I?' and 'what is going on [in the world]?' and refers to James Hillman, ideas and action as an artificial distinction, are they the same thing? How are they interlinked? The poet Major Ragain is quoted, 'contemplation alters the course of rivers.' From the Bhagavad Gita: Freedom from action is not accomplished by abstaining from action, so how is it accomplished? Relinquishing the fruit of action Ghandi's, 'through service, I find myself.' The Panel begins to examine the Taoist concept of non-action, Wu Wei. How do we cultivate Wu Wei? The Panel explores Univerisal Truths. Natural action arises, we have a deep intrinsic calling, how do we find and express it? What is our reason for being here? To receive the Divine Will is a part of choiceless action. Biographies of Panel: Dr. Bob Insull is an New York State Licensed Psychologist with more than 60 years experience teaching, training, and treating in the arena of human behavior. In his clinical practice, he has worked across the developmental stages (children to golden-agers), across the diagnostic spectrum (chemical dependency, severe mental illness, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and PTSD), and treatment settings (clinics, inpatient psychiatric centers, and private practice). During the closing years of his practice, he became interested in the area of psychological trauma and worked with survivors in individual and group settings. He has been retired from active practice for about 15 years and spends his time engaged in self-discovery on the Sufi Path and social-change activities with his church. Brian Mistler is a Missouri-hillbilly curious about Reality. He has lived as a computer scientist, psychologist, running and growing businesses, and helping entrepreneurs, hospitals, and healthcare providers. Mid-life Brian had a partially debilitating nerve injury and soon after met a true Vedanta teacher who spent 30+ years in India and trained under Swami Chimayananda, Sawmi Dayananda, and others. This refocused his study of the classic non-dual wisdom as presented in the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. Learn more at http://www.stillcenter.media. Hari Om Tat Sat. Peace, peace, peace. Richard Grego is Professor of philosophy and cultural history at FSCJ. His research interests focus on cross cultural themes in religion and science - including philosophy of mind, comparative world religions/world civilizations, and the metaphysical - theological implications of theoretical physics and cosmology. His publications have included studies in the history - philosophy of science and conceptions of nature in the history of western philosophy, as well as cross-cultural perspectives on mind/ consciousness in western philosophy - psychology and the neo-Vedanta Hindu tradition. Prior to his academic career, he was a criminal investigator - polygraph examiner for the Florida Office of the Public Defender and in the private sector Instructor at the Criminal Justice Institute and International Academy of Polygraph Science in Florida, and national Academic Director of the Criminal Defense Investigation Training Council. Joel David Lesses is President and Executive Director of Education Training Center, Inc. and his work experience is in education, psychology, and counseling for people marginalized by trauma, addiction, and psychological distress. He is deeply vested in addressing the effects of mental health distress and its marginalization including, incarceration, homelessness, and institutionalization. Joel is dedicated to reframing mental health distress as a potential spiritual marker and existential opportunity. He holds dual Master of Science degrees from University at Buffalo in Rehabilitation Counseling and Biomedical Sciences with a concentration in Epidemiology. Henry Cretella, M.D. studied and practiced Tibetan Buddhism for several years along with training in martial arts. He then immersed himself in the more universal Sufism of Inayat Khan, an Indian mystic, for close to twenty years. He functioned as a senior teacher in the Inayati Order and the Sufi Healing Order before pursuing his independent practice and study of mysticism. He now integrates what he has learned and experienced over these many years. He graduated from Vanderbilt Medical School and completed his psychiatric training at Strong Memorial Hospital of the University of Rochester in Rochester, NY. His professional career spanned over 40 years as a general and child and adolescent psychiatrist and included teaching, administration, clinical practice and consultation in the greater Rochester and western NY areas. This, along with his spiritual and especially mystical interests lead him to certification as a mind body practitioner through the Center for Mind Body Medicine and Dr. James Gordon. He retired several years ago from active psychiatric practice, but continues to incorporate what he has learned into his spiritual practices and offerings.

“At 57, I'm not winding down—I'm spiraling in. This is not the finale. This is the reclamation.”In this Wisdom Walk edition of the Soulcruzer Podcast, I step into the mythic terrain of Act III—the Reclamation Phase. Blending Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, James Hillman's mythic imagination, and the soul-deep symbolism of the Osho Zen Tarot, this episode explores the turning of the inner wheel and the soulful integration that defines the latter chapters of life. In this episode: What it means to live in Act III—not as decline, but as the return with the elixirHow soul integration and legacy begin with letting go of split identitiesEmbodied reflections on the three Osho Zen cards drawn for this walk:The Torn One (Schizophrenia) – the inner conflict of clinging to two worldsThe Dream Gazer (Postponement) – the cost of waiting to step into the full-color lifeThe Cosmic Dancer (Change) – surrendering to the rhythm of the turning wheelA real-time mythic meditation on life, death, purpose, and legacyThe personal reckoning of letting go of the "safe structure" in order to fully serve those who've awakened from the MatrixThis isn't just a podcast—it's a soul signal for those who've stirred from the dream of the ordinary and now find themselves blinking into the mythic light, wondering, What now?  

What calls you?We spend so much of our time wrapped up in what we should do—clean the house, pay the bills, check off the endless to-do list. But what if we set aside the “shoulds” for a moment and listened to what truly calls us? What if Spirit speaks, not through obligation, but through excitement? In this episode, I explore the powerful concept of the Daimon, as introduced in James Hillman's The Soul's Code. This inner guide—your unique blueprint—has been with you since birth, nudging you toward your true destiny. I share a personal moment of realization, where a simple painting reminded me of my own creative calling. What brings you joy? What sparks that deep inner yes? In my book, The Spiritual Artist (available on Amazon), I call this your Intelligence of Being—the unique code within you that guides your creative and spiritual journey. Today, I challenge you to listen to that voice—the one that knows your path better than your to-do list ever could. When you hear the calling, what will you do?  

Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. For more, visit dreamtending.com.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

Episode Summary: Seth returns and is joined by Mike for a deep dive into imagination, creativity, and the transformative power of channeling. Together, they explore active imagination, engaging with the imaginal realm, and Seth's journey toward connecting with dragons as primal, ancestral forces. The episode is a celebration of creativity, personal growth, and embracing the mysterious depths within.Topics Discussed:Active Imagination and Shadow Work: Mike and Seth share their experiences with active imagination, discussing its challenges and the breakthroughs it offers. They reflect on entering the imaginal realm, confronting fear, and engaging with the unconscious without judgment.Channeling Dragons: Seth recounts his journey of connecting with dragons as symbols of ferocity and transformation. He describes the physical and emotional sensations that led him to this practice and how it has shifted his perspective on creativity and power.The Power of Somatic Therapy: Seth explains how Hakomi somatic psychotherapy combines mindfulness and body awareness with imagination to foster healing and self-discovery.Creativity and the Middle World: Drawing on James Hillman's concept of the "middle world," the duo discusses how creativity bridges the abstract and material realms, allowing us to co-create with consciousness.Imagination as a Tool for Healing and Growth: From inviting magical beings to help with mundane tasks to dreaming bigger, the conversation underscores the importance of imagination in expanding one's sense of self and engaging with life fully.Soul-Making and Self-Acceptance: The hosts reflect on how engaging with the imaginal world fosters self-acceptance and offers new perspectives on challenges and emotions.LinksSeth's Share Circles: Seth hosts guided active imagination meditations as part of his share circles, offering a safe space for people to connect with their inner worlds and share authentically. For more details, email mormonsonmushroomspod@gmail.com or reach out to Seth on Instagram at @sethlloyds.Creativity Coaching with Seth: Seth offers coaching sessions to help individuals connect with their subconscious, engage with creativity, and establish life-affirming spiritual practices. Email Seth.Stephenson@protonmail.com for inquiries.200th Episode Live Recording: Join Mike and Doug for a special live recording of their 200th episode on February 2nd at 5 PM MT. To participate, email mormonsonmushroomspod@gmail.com.Join the Conversation:Sign up for the Mormons on Mushrooms Underground Newsletter to stay connected and hear about future events and updates.Share your thoughts, stories, or questions by emailing mormonsonmushroomspod@gmail.com.Episode Highlights:“The face we show the unconscious is the face that it shows back.” “We are part of creation, and all we can do is fully be a part of it.” “An emotion is a sensation with a story.” “Imagination is not about escaping reality; it's about enriching it.” Thank You for Listening! If this episode inspired or resonated with you, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to Mormons on Mushrooms on your favorite podcast platform. 

In this episode, Matt speaks with Richard Tarnas about his book Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New Worldview. Richard Theodore Tarnas is a cultural historian and astrologer known for his books The Passion of the Western Mind: Understanding the Ideas That Have Shaped Our World View and Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New World View. Tarnas is professor of philosophy and psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies, and is the founding director of its graduate program in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness. In 1968 Tarnas entered Harvard, graduating with an A.B. cum laude in 1972. He received his Ph.D. from Saybrook Institute in 1976 with a thesis on psychedelic therapy. In 1974 Tarnas went to Esalen in California to study psychotherapy with Stanislav Grof. From 1974 to 1984 he lived and worked at Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, teaching and studying with Grof, Joseph Campbell, Gregory Bateson, Huston Smith, Elizabeth Kübler-Ross, and James Hillman. He also served as Esalen's director of programs and education. Get the book: https://a.co/d/4gJFNxS warmachinepodcast.org Music for this episode: Lamentium, Monasterium Imperi Nomad's Theme, Matt Baker

Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. For more, visit dreamtending.com.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

Send your email to join the MoM Underground: Co-create with a community of artists and stay informed of online and local events, including gatherings, concerts, live podcast recordings, meditations, etc.Support Mormons on Mushrooms:Become a PatreonSend a ContributionIn this episode, Mike and Doug dive into a riveting conversation sparked by Mike's eerie solo trip to see the terrifying new Nosferatu movie—while high, no less! This opens the door to a deep discussion about fear, creativity, and how our media choices reflect and shape our inner lives.Key Topics Discussed:Mike's Nosferatu ExperienceWhat it's like to immerse yourself in a terrifying film while grappling with existential questions.The surprising symbolic themes in Nosferatu and how they mirror our pursuits and sacrifices in life.Exploring the Hero's JourneyReflections on the archetype of the hero, from Frodo to Neo, and how it resonates with our longing to matter.The paradox of seeking external validation versus finding fulfillment through self-discovery.Soul-Making Through Art and ExpressionDoug and Mike discuss James Hillman's concept of soul-making: engaging deeply with life's ecstasies and heartbreaks.The difference between creating for external approval and the fullness that comes from authentic, communal experiences—whether on stage, around a fire, or during a chill Friday night gathering.TikTok and the Validation TrapNavigating the highs and lows of sharing content online.Why likes, comments, and views can never fully satisfy the soul.New Year Intentions: Living AuthenticallyMike shares a new ritual inspired by Doug: defining “I am” statements to align with personal truths and aspirations.How these intentions tie back to music, community, and creating moments of true connection.

Internationally renowned Jungian dreamer Sven Doehner PhD, protégé of James Hillman, comes on board to discuss the healing power of dreams using sound. Laura and Melinda also attend one of his acclaimed workshops, held at the DRI in London, UK and report back on the results.    Sven talks how healing can materialize not just by playing with dream imagery and diving into meanings and symbolism but how sound can form a significant part of the healing process. Melinda and Laura discuss this and how they were impressed with Sven's techniques during the London workshop.   Sven, a Mexican, reveals how a family dream about the 1937 Hindenburg Airship disaster affected his family and how a personal dream when he met James Hillman by chance in a US bookshop resulted in Hillman, a student of Jung, taking him on as a client and student. Sven discusses his work as a Transpersonal psychotherapist and facilitator and how his workshops and retreats have taken him round the world.   Sven Doehner, PhD, MFA, is a 72 year old Psychoanalyst trained in C.G. Jung´s Analytical Psychology, with James Hillman in Archetypal Psychology, as a Somatic Movement Educator, and as a Transpersonal therapist. His exploration, involvement and experience with native Ancestral Healing and Spiritual practices – begun in 1984 – is blended into his therapeutic work with others, as is his expertise in working with the Voice: “The Listening Voice”. in which he guides into discovering the vocal form of what is moving within them in a moment of particular tension. His intention is to dissolves knotts, opens space, and gives form to something new in order to restore, movement in the “being” of a person´s life. He calls this innovative proposal “The Sound Imagination”.   www.svendoehner.com Insta: @svendoehner

In this week's episode of the 3 Pillars Podcast I will be discussing the Warrior Archetype. How do you define it, what is it's shadow, and how can we apply our Christian faith to strengthen this archetype? SUBSCRIBE TO THE NEW PODCAST CHANNEL HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@3PillarsPodcast God bless you all. Jesus is King. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I appreciate all the comments, topic suggestions, and shares! Find the "3 Pillars Podcast" on all major platforms. For more information, visit the 3 Pillars Podcast website: https://3pillarspodcast.wordpress.com/ Don't forget to check out the 3 Pillars Podcast on Goodpods and share your thoughts by leaving a rating and review: https://goodpods.app.link/3X02e8nmIub Please Support Veteran's For Child Rescue: https://vets4childrescue.org/ Stay connected with Joe Russiello and the "Sword of the Spirit" Podcast: https://www.swordofthespiritpodcast.com/ Join the conversation: #3pillarspodcast References Jung, C. G. (1969). The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious. Princeton University Press. Hillman, J. (1989). A Blue Fire: Selected Writings by James Hillman. Harper & Row. Rohr, R. (2011). Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life. Jossey-Bass. Peterson, J. B. (2018). 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. Random House. Peck, M. S. (1978). The Road Less Traveled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values, and Spiritual Growth. Simon & Schuster. #podcast #archetype --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/chase-tobin/support

Welcome back to another enriching episode of the StreetSmart Wisdom Podcast! I'm your host, Steve Stein, and today we have a transformative conversation with our esteemed guest, Mark Matousek. In this episode titled "Mark Matousek on Emerson's Path to Self-Reliance and Spiritual Consciousness," we dive deep into the timeless wisdom of Ralph Waldo Emerson and explore how his philosophies on self-reliance, nonconformity, and spiritual democracy can illuminate our paths today.   Mark, the author of the insightful book "Lessons from an American Stoic: How Emerson Can Change Your Life," shares invaluable lessons on accessing inner wisdom without the need for external permission, and discusses Emerson's relevance in an age overwhelmed by social media and societal pressures. We examine how personal connection to the divine is accessible to everyone, supported by practical spiritual exercises inspired by stoicism to enhance self-awareness.   Together, we navigate the importance of grounding oneself to maintain authenticity, the benefits of taking breaks from social influences, and the profound impact of spending quality introspective time. We also touch on the powerful stoic practice of "viewing from above," reframing life's challenges into opportunities for growth, demonstrating how imagination can reshape our realities.   Join us as we traverse through Emerson's critical ideas on personal wellness, individuality, and the sacred marriage of opposites, alongside insights into Matousek's personal journey influenced by figures like James Hillman and their shared mission to reduce suffering through self-discovery and mindfulness. Don't miss this enlightening episode, providing you with essential tools to thrive in today's complex world.   Remember to check out Mark Matousek's work at markmatousek.com and join our community at WisdomFeed Plus for more resources on personal development, health, and wellness. Tune in and empower yourself with some StreetSmart wisdom!   TIMESTAMP: 00:00 Street Smart Wisdom: Inspirational and vetted content. 04:13 Emerson's ideas offer relevant guidance for today. 08:42 Transcendentalism: Personal divine experience over religious institutions. 10:57 Traditions not needed for spiritual enlightenment. 16:12 Grounded wisdom, Emerson's impact, accessible stoicism. 18:21 Being true to oneself is life's greatest achievement. 20:57 Being eccentric is valuable; individuality fosters creativity. 24:01 Engaged quiet time for self-reflection. 28:33 Stoicism focused on reducing suffering, like CBT. 32:09 Finding opportunity in adversity brings positive change. 36:17 Empowerment comes from changing victim mindset. 37:51 Be present; avoid living life on autopilot. 43:54 Emerson: Embrace contradictions, form unique originality. 45:50 Embrace contradictions; expand understanding and possibilities. 47:59 Opposites teach valuable lessons for reconciliation. 51:23 Join WisdomFeed Plus for wellness and community.     Connect with us: Facebook: https://bit.ly/FBpageWF Instagram: https://bit.ly/RealWisdomFeed WisdomFeed Website: https://bit.ly/WisdomFeedHome BetterListen Website: https://bit.ly/BetterListenWebsite

It's spooky season, so the team decided to talk about nightmares since it correlates synchronistically with the head center. Kristen mainly takes the stage here with her history of nightmares and how it could have been helping her experience repressed fear and regulating her emotional health. They discuss how nightmares could be a direct way to experience all three instinctual centers. Resources; ‘The Twenty Four Hour Mind' Article; https://www.themarginalian.org/index.php/2012/08/13/the-twenty-four-hour-mind-rosalind-cartwright/ James Hillman; ‘Pan and the Nightmare' James Hillman lecture; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qRRPBAx_CQ 

On this episode of the pod, my guest is David Cayley, a Toronto-based Canadian writer and broadcaster. For more than thirty years (1981-2012) he made radio documentaries for CBC Radio One's program Ideas, which premiered in 1965 under the title The Best Ideas You'll Hear Tonight. In 1966, at the age of twenty, Cayley joined the Canadian University Service Overseas (CUSO), one of the many volunteer organizations that sprang up in the 1960's to promote international development. Two years later, back in Canada, he began to associate with a group of returned volunteers whose experiences had made them, like himself, increasingly quizzical about the idea of development. In 1968 in Chicago, he heard a lecture given by Ivan Illich and in 1970 he and others brought Illich to Toronto for a teach-in called “Crisis in Development.” This was the beginning of their long relationship: eighteen years later Cayley invited Illich to do a series of interviews for CBC Radio's Ideas. Cayley is the author of Ivan Illich: An Intellectual Journey (2022), Ideas on the Nature of Science (2009), The Rivers North of the Future: The Testament of Ivan Illich (2004), Puppet Uprising (2003),The Expanding Prison: The Crisis in Crime and Punishment and the Search for Alternatives (1998), George Grant in Conversation (1995), Northrop Frye in Conversation (1992), Ivan Illich in Conversation (1992), and The Age of Ecology (1990).Show Notes:The Early Years with Ivan IllichThe Good Samaritan StoryFalling out of a HomeworldThe Corruption of the Best is the Worst (Corruptio Optimi Pessima)How Hospitality Becomes HostilityHow to Live in ContradictionRediscovering the FutureThe Pilgrimage of SurpriseFriendship with the OtherHomework:Ivan Illich: An Intellectual Journey (Penn State Press) - Paperback Now Available!David Cayley's WebsiteThe Rivers North of the Future (House of Anansi Press)Ivan Illich | The Corruption of Christianity: Corruptio Optimi Pessima (2000)Charles Taylor: A Secular AgeTranscript:Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome, David, to the End of Tourism Podcast. It's a pleasure to finally meet you. David: Likewise. Thank you. Chris: I'm very grateful to have you joining me today. And I'm curious if you could offer our listeners a little glimpse into where you find yourself today and what the world looks like for you through the lenses of David Cayley.David: Gray and wet. In Toronto, we've had a mild winter so far, although we did just have some real winter for a couple of weeks. So, I'm at my desk in my house in downtown Toronto. Hmm. Chris: Hmm. Thank you so much for joining us, David. You know, I came to your work quite long ago.First through the book, The Rivers North of the Future, The Testament of Ivan Illich. And then through your long standing tenure as the host of CBC Ideas in Canada. I've also just finished reading your newest book, Ivan Illich, An Intellectual Journey. For me, which has been a clear and comprehensive homage [00:01:00] to that man's work.And so, from what I understand from the reading, you were a friend of Illich's as well as the late Gustavo Esteva, a mutual friend of ours, who I interviewed for the podcast shortly before his death in 2021. Now, since friendship is one of the themes I'd like to approach with you today, I'm wondering if you could tell us about how you met these men and what led you to writing a biography of the former, of Ivan.David: Well, let me answer about Ivan first. I met him as a very young man. I had spent two years living in northern Borneo, eastern Malaysia, the Malaysian state of Sarawak. As part of an organization called the Canadian University Service Overseas, which many people recognize only when it's identified with the Peace Corps. It was a similar initiative or the VSO, very much of the time.And When I returned to [00:02:00] Toronto in 1968, one of the first things I saw was an essay of Ivan's. It usually circulates under the name he never gave it, which is, "To Hell With Good Intentions." A talk he had given in Chicago to some young volunteers in a Catholic organization bound for Mexico.And it made sense to me in a radical and surprising way. So, I would say it began there. I went to CDOC the following year. The year after that we brought Ivan to Toronto for a teach in, in the fashion of the time, and he was then an immense celebrity, so we turned people away from a 600 seat theater that night when he lectured in Toronto.I kept in touch subsequently through reading mainly and we didn't meet again until the later 1980s when he came to Toronto.[00:03:00] He was then working on, in the history of literacy, had just published a book called ABC: the Alphabetization of the Western Mind. And that's where we became more closely connected. I went later that year to State College, Pennsylvania, where he was teaching at Penn State, and recorded a long interview, radically long.And made a five-hour Ideas series, but by a happy chance, I had not thought of this, his friend Lee Hoinacki asked for the raw tapes, transcribed them, and eventually that became a published book. And marked an epoch in Ivan's reception, as well as in my life because a lot of people responded to the spoken or transcribed Illich in a way that they didn't seem to be able to respond to his writing, which was scholastically condensed, let's [00:04:00] say.I always found it extremely congenial and I would even say witty in the deep sense of wit. But I think a lot of people, you know, found it hard and so the spoken Illich... people came to him, even old friends and said, you know, "we understand you better now." So, the following year he came to Toronto and stayed with us and, you know, a friendship blossomed and also a funny relationship where I kept trying to get him to express himself more on the theme of the book you mentioned, The Rivers North of the Future, which is his feeling that modernity, in the big sense of modernity can be best understood as perversionism. A word that he used, because he liked strong words, but it can be a frightening word."Corruption" also has its difficulties, [00:05:00] but sometimes he said "a turning inside out," which I like very much, or "a turning upside down" of the gospel. So, when the world has its way with the life, death and resurrection and teaching of Jesus Christ which inevitably becomes an institution when the world has its way with that.The way leads to where we are. That was his radical thought. And a novel thought, according to the philosopher Charles Taylor, a Canadian philosopher, who was kind enough to write a preface to that book when it was published, and I think very much aided its reception, because people knew who Charles Taylor was, and by then, they had kind of forgotten who Ivan Illich was.To give an example of that, when he died, the New York [00:06:00] Times obituary was headlined "Priest turned philosopher appealed to baby boomers in the 60s." This is yesterday's man, in other words, right? This is somebody who used to be important. So, I just kept at him about it, and eventually it became clear he was never going to write that book for a whole variety of reasons, which I won't go into now.But he did allow me to come to Cuernavaca, where he was living, and to do another very long set of interviews, which produced that book, The Rivers North of the Future. So that's the history in brief. The very last part of that story is that The Rivers North of the Future and the radio series that it was based on identifies themes that I find to be quite explosive. And so, in a certain way, the book you mentioned, Ivan Illich: An Intellectual Journey, [00:07:00] was destined from the moment that I recorded those conversations. Chris: Hmm, yeah, thank you, David. So much of what you said right there ends up being the basis for most of my questions today, especially around the corruption or the perversion what perhaps iatrogenesis also termed as iatrogenesis But much of what I've also come to ask today, stems and revolves around Illich's reading of the Good Samaritan story, so I'd like to start there, if that's alright.And you know, for our listeners who aren't familiar either with the story or Illich's take on it, I've gathered some small excerpts from An Intellectual Journey so that they might be on the same page, so to speak. So, from Ivan Illich, An Intellectual Journey:"jesus tells the story after he has been asked how to, quote, 'inherit eternal life,' end quote, and has replied that one must love God and one's neighbor, [00:08:00] quote, 'as oneself,' but, quote, who is my neighbor? His interlocutor wants to know. Jesus answers with his tale of a man on his way from Jerusalem to Jericho, who is beset by robbers, beaten, and left, quote, 'half dead' by the side of the road.Two men happen along, but, quote, 'pass by on the other side.' One is a priest and the other a Levite, a group that assisted the priests at the Great Temple, which, at that time, dominated the landscape of Jerusalem from the Temple Mount. Then, a Samaritan comes along. The Samaritans belonged to the estranged northern kingdom of Israel, and did not worship at the Temple.Tension between the Samaritans and the Judeans in the Second Temple period gives the name a significance somewhere between 'foreigner' and 'enemy.' [00:09:00] In contemporary terms, he was, as Illich liked to say, 'a Palestinian.' The Samaritan has, quote, 'compassion' on the wounded one. He stops, binds his wounds, takes him to an inn where he can convalesce and promises the innkeeper that he will return to pay the bill.'And so Jesus concludes by asking, 'Which of the three passers by was the neighbor?'Illich claimed that this parable had been persistently misunderstood as a story about how one ought to act. He had surveyed sermons from the 3rd through 19th centuries, he said, 'and found a broad consensus that what was being proposed was a, quote, rule of conduct.' But this interpretation was, in fact, quote, 'the opposite of what Jesus wanted to point out.'He had not been asked how to act toward a neighbor, but rather, 'who is my neighbor?' And he had replied, [00:10:00] scandalously, that it could be anyone at all. The choice of the Samaritan as the hero of the tale said, 'in effect, it is impossible to categorize who your neighbor might be.' The sense of being called to help the other is experienced intermittently and not as an unvarying obligation.A quote, 'new kind of ought has been established,' Illich says, which is not related to a norm. It has a telos, it aims at somebody, some body, but not according to a rule. And finally, The Master told them that who your neighbor is is not determined by your birth, by your condition, by the language which you speak, but by you.You can recognize the other man who is out of bounds culturally, who is foreign linguistically, who, you can [00:11:00] say by providence or pure chance, is the one who lies somewhere along your road in the grass and create the supreme form of relatedness, which is not given by creation, but created by you. Any attempt to explain this 'ought,' as correspond, as, as corresponding to a norm, takes out the mysterious greatness from this free act.And so, I think there are at least, at the very least, a few major points to take away from this little summary I've extracted. One, that the ability to choose one's neighbor, breaks the boundaries of ethnicity at the time, which were the bases for understanding one's identity and people and place in the world.And two, that it creates a new foundation for hospitality and interculturality. And so I'm [00:12:00] curious, David, if you'd be willing to elaborate on these points as you understand them.David: Well if you went a little farther on in that part of the book, you'd find an exposition of a German teacher and writer and professor, Claus Held, that I found very helpful in understanding what Ivan was saying. Held is a phenomenologist and a follower of Husserl, but he uses Husserl's term of the home world, right, that each of us has a home world. Mm-Hmm. Which is our ethnos within which our ethics apply.It's a world in which we can be at home and in which we can somehow manage, right? There are a manageable number of people to whom we are obliged. We're not universally obliged. So, what was interesting about Held's analysis is then the condition in which the wounded [00:13:00] man lies is, he's fallen outside of any reference or any home world, right?Nobody has to care for him. The priest and the Levite evidently don't care for him. They have more important things to do. The story doesn't tell you why. Is he ritually impure as one apparently dead is? What? You don't know. But they're on their way. They have other things to do. So the Samaritan is radically out of line, right?He dares to enter this no man's land, this exceptional state in which the wounded man lies, and he does it on the strength of a feeling, right? A stirring inside him. A call. It's definitely a bodily experience. In Ivan's language of norms, it's not a norm. It's not a duty.It's [00:14:00] not an obligation. It's not a thought. He's stirred. He is moved to do what he does and he cares for him and takes him to the inn and so on. So, the important thing in it for me is to understand the complementarity that's involved. Held says that if you try and develop a set of norms and ethics, however you want to say it, out of the Samaritan's Act, it ends up being radically corrosive, it ends up being radically corrosive damaging, destructive, disintegrating of the home world, right? If everybody's caring for everybody all the time universally, you're pretty soon in the maddening world, not pretty soon, but in a couple of millennia, in the maddening world we live in, right? Where people Can tell you with a straight face that their actions are intended to [00:15:00] save the planet and not experience a sense of grandiosity in saying that, right?Not experiencing seemingly a madness, a sense of things on a scale that is not proper to any human being, and is bound, I think, to be destructive of their capacity to be related to what is at hand. So, I think what Ivan is saying in saying this is a new kind of ought, right, it's the whole thing of the corruption of the best is the worst in a nutshell because as soon as you think you can operationalize that, you can turn everyone into a Samaritan and You, you begin to destroy the home world, right?You begin to destroy ethics. You begin to, or you transform ethics into something which is a contradiction of ethics. [00:16:00] So, there isn't an answer in it, in what he says. There's a complementarity, right? Hmm. There's the freedom to go outside, but if the freedom to go outside destroys any inside, then, what have you done?Right? Hmm. You've created an unlivable world. A world of such unending, such unimaginable obligation, as one now lives in Toronto, you know, where I pass homeless people all the time. I can't care for all of them. So, I think it's also a way of understanding for those who contemplate it that you really have to pay attention.What are you called to, right? What can you do? What is within your amplitude? What is urgent for you? Do that thing, right? Do not make yourself mad with [00:17:00] impossible charity. A charity you don't feel, you can't feel, you couldn't feel. Right? Take care of what's at hand, what you can take care of. What calls you.Chris: I think this comes up quite a bit these days. Especially, in light of international conflicts, conflicts that arise far from people's homes and yet the demand of that 'ought' perhaps of having to be aware and having to have or having to feel some kind of responsibility for these things that are happening in other places that maybe, It's not that they don't have anything to do with us but that our ability to have any kind of recourse for what happens in those places is perhaps flippant, fleeting, and even that we're stretched to the point that we can't even tend and attend to what's happening in front of us in our neighborhoods.And so, I'm curious as to how this came to be. You mentioned "the corruption" [00:18:00] and maybe we could just define that, if possible for our listeners this notion of "the corruption of the best is the worst." Would you be willing to do that? Do you think that that's an easy thing to do? David: I've been trying for 30 years.I can keep on trying. I really, I mean, that was the seed of everything. At the end of the interview we did in 1988, Ivan dropped that little bomb on me. And I was a diligent man, and I had prepared very carefully. I'd read everything he'd written and then at the very end of the interview, he says the whole history of the West can be summed up in the phrase, Corruptio Optimi Pessima.He was quite fluent in Latin. The corruption of the best is the worst. And I thought, wait a minute, the whole history of the West? This is staggering. So, yes, I've been reflecting on it for a long time, but I think there are many ways to speak [00:19:00] about the incarnation, the idea that God is present and visible in the form of a human being, that God indeed is a human being in the person of Jesus Christ.One way is to think of it as a kind of nuclear explosion of religion. Religion had always been the placation of a god. Right? A sacrifice of some kind made to placate a god. Now the god is present. It could be you. Jesus is explicit about it, and I think that is the most important thing for Iman in reading the gospel, is that God appears to us as one another.Hmm. If you can put it, one another in the most general sense of that formula. So, that's explosive, right? I mean, religion, in a certain way, up to that moment, is society. It's the [00:20:00] integument of every society. It's the nature of the beast to be religious in the sense of having an understanding of how you're situated and in what order and with what foundation that order exists. It's not an intellectual thing. It's just what people do. Karl Barth says religion is a yoke. So, it has in a certain way exploded or been exploded at that moment but it will of course be re instituted as a religion. What else could happen? And so Ivan says, and this probably slim New Testament warrant for this, but this was his story, that in the very earliest apostolic church. They were aware of this danger, right? That Christ must be shadowed by "Antichrist," a term that Ivan was brave enough to use. The word just has a [00:21:00] terrible, terrible history. I mean, the Protestants abused the Catholics with the name of Antichrist. Luther rages against the Pope as antichrist.Hmm. And the word persists now as a kind of either as a sign of evangelical dogmatism, or maybe as a joke, right. When I was researching it, I came across a book called "How to Tell If Your Boyfriend Is The Antichrist." Mm-Hmm. It's kind of a jokey thing in a way, in so far as people know, but he dared to use it as to say the antichrist is simply the instituted Christ.Right. It's not anything exotic. It's not anything theological. It's the inevitable worldly shadow of there being a Christ at all. And so that's, that's the beginning of the story. He, he claims that the church loses sight of this understanding, loses sight of the basic [00:22:00] complementarity or contradiction that's involved in the incarnation in the first place.That this is something that can never be owned, something that can never be instituted, something that can only happen again and again and again within each one. So, but heaven can never finally come to earth except perhaps in a story about the end, right? The new heaven and the new earth, the new Jerusalem come down from heaven.Fine. That's at the end, not now. So that's the gist of what he, what he said. He has a detailed analysis of the stages of that journey, right? So, within your theme of hospitality the beginnings of the church becoming a social worker in the decaying Roman Empire. And beginning to develop institutions of hospitality, [00:23:00] places for all the flotsam and jetsam of the decaying empire.And then in a major way from the 11th through the 13th century, when the church institutes itself as a mini or proto state, right? With a new conception of law. Every element of our modernity prefigured in the medieval church and what it undertook, according to Ivan. This was all news to me when he first said it to me.So yeah, the story goes on into our own time when I think one of the primary paradoxes or confusions that we face is that most of the people one meets and deals with believe themselves to be living after Christianity and indeed to great opponents of Christianity. I mean, nothing is more important in Canada now than to denounce residential schools, let's say, right? Which were [00:24:00] the schools for indigenous children, boarding schools, which were mainly staffed by the church, right?So, the gothic figure of the nun, the sort of vulpine, sinister. That's the image of the church, right? So you have so many reasons to believe that you're after that. You've woken up, you're woke. And, and you see that now, right? So you don't In any way, see yourself as involved in this inversion of the gospel which has actually created your world and which is still, in so many ways, you.So, leftists today, if I'm using the term leftists very, very broadly, "progressives," people sometimes say, "woke," people say. These are all in a certain way super Christians or hyper Christians, but absolutely unaware of themselves as Christians and any day you can read an analysis [00:25:00] which traces everything back to the Enlightenment.Right? We need to re institute the Enlightenment. We've forgotten the Enlightenment. We have to get back to the, right? There's nothing before the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment is the over, that's an earlier overcoming of Christianity, right? So modernity is constantly overcoming Christianity. And constantly forgetting that it's Christian.That these are the ways in which the Incarnation is working itself out. And one daren't say that it's bound to work itself out that way. Ivan will go as far as to say it's seemingly the will of God that it should work itself out that way. Right? Wow. So, that the Gospel will be preached to all nations as predicted at the end of the Gospels." Go therefore and preach to all nations," but it will not be preached in its explicit form. It will enter, as it were, through the [00:26:00] back door. So that's a very big thought. But it's a saving thought in certain ways, because it does suggest a way of unwinding, or winding up, this string of finding out how this happened.What is the nature of the misunderstanding that is being played out here? So. Chris: Wow. Yeah, I mean, I, I feel like what you just said was a kind of nuclear bomb unto its own. I remember reading, for example, James Hillman in The Terrible Love of War, and at the very end he essentially listed all, not all, but many of the major characteristics of modern people and said if you act this way, you are Christian.If you act this way, you are Christian. Essentially revealing that so much of modernity has these Christian roots. And, you know, you said in terms of this message and [00:27:00] corruption of the message going in through the back door. And I think that's what happens in terms of at least when we see institutions in the modern time, schools, hospitals, roads essentially modern institutions and lifestyles making their way into non modern places.And I'm very fascinated in this in terms of hospitality. You said that the church, and I think you're quoting Illich there, but " the church is a social worker." But also how this hospitality shows up in the early church and maybe even how they feared about what could happen as a result to this question of the incarnation.In your book it was just fascinating to read this that you said, or that you wrote, that "in the early years of Christianity it was customary in a Christian household to have an extra mattress, a bit of candle, and some dry bread in case the Lord Jesus should knock at the door in the form of a stranger without a roof, a form of behavior that was utterly [00:28:00] foreign to the cultures of the Roman Empire."In which many Christians lived. And you write, "you took in your own, but not someone lost on the street." And then later "When the emperor Constantine recognized the church, Christian bishops gained the power to establish social corporations." And this is, I think, the idea of the social worker. The church is a social worker.And you write that the first corporations they started were Samaritan corporations, which designated certain categories of people as preferred neighbors. For example, the bishops created special houses financed by the community that were charged with taking care of people without a home. Such care was no longer the free choice of the householder, it was the task of an institution.The appearance of these xenodocheia? Literally, quote, 'houses for foreigners' signified the beginning of a change in the nature of the church." And then of course you write and you mentioned this but "a gratuitous and truly [00:29:00] free choice of assisting the stranger has become an ideology and an idealism." Right. And so, this seems to be how the corruption of the Samaritan story, the corruption of breaking that threshold, or at least being able to cross it, comes to produce this incredible 'ought,' as you just kind of elaborated for us.And then this notion of, that we can't see it anymore. That it becomes this thing in the past, as you said. In other words, history. Right? And so my next question is a question that comes to some degree from our late mutual friend Gustavo, Gustavo Esteva. And I'd just like to preface it by a small sentence from An Intellectual Journey where he wrote that, "I think that limit, in Illich, is always linked to nemesis, or to what Jung calls [00:30:00] enantiodromia, his Greek word for the way in which any tendency, when pushed too far, can turn into its opposite. And so, a long time ago, Illich once asked Gustavo if he could identify a word that could describe the era after development, or perhaps after development's death.And Gustavo said, "hospitality." And so, much later, in a private conversation with Gustavo, in the context of tourism and gentrification, the kind that was beginning to sweep across Oaxaca at the time, some years ago, he told me that he considered "the sale of one's people's radical or local hospitality as a kind of invitation to hostility in the place and within the ethnos that one lives in."Another way of saying it might be that the subversion and absence of hospitality in a place breeds or can breed hostility.[00:31:00] I'm curious what you make of his comment in the light of limits, enantiodromia and the corruption that Illich talks about.David: Well I'd like to say one thing which is the thought I was having while you, while you were speaking because at the very beginning I mentioned a reservation a discomfort with words like perversion and corruption. And the thought is that it's easy to understand Illich as doing critique, right? And it's easy then to moralize that critique, right? And I think it's important that he's showing something that happens, right? And that I daren't say bound to happen, but is likely to happen because of who and what we are, that we will institutionalize, that we will make rules, that we will, right?So, I think it's important to rescue Ivan from being read [00:32:00] moralistically, or that you're reading a scold here, right? Hmm. Right. I mean, and many social critics are or are read as scolds, right? And contemporary people are so used to being scolded that they, and scold themselves very regularly. So, I just wanted to say that to rescue Ivan from a certain kind of reading. You're quoting Gustavo on the way in which the opening up of a culture touristically can lead to hostility, right? Right. And I think also commenting on the roots of the words are the same, right? "hostile," "hospice." They're drawing on the same, right?That's right. It's how one treats the enemy, I think. Hmm. It's the hinge. Hmm. In all those words. What's the difference between hospitality and hostility?[00:33:00] So, I think that thought is profound and profoundly fruitful. So, I think Gustavo had many resources in expressing it.I couldn't possibly express it any better. And I never answered you at the beginning how I met Gustavo, but on that occasion in 1988 when I was interviewing Illich, they were all gathered, a bunch of friends to write what was called The Development Dictionary, a series of essays trying to write an epilogue to the era of development.So, Gustavo, as you know, was a charming man who spoke a peculiarly beautiful English in which he was fluent, but somehow, you could hear the cadence of Spanish through it without it even being strongly accented. So I rejoiced always in interviewing Gustavo, which I did several times because he was such a pleasure to listen to.But anyway, I've digressed. Maybe I'm ducking your question. Do you want to re ask it or? Chris: Sure. [00:34:00] Yeah, I suppose. You know although there were a number of essays that Gustavo wrote about hospitality that I don't believe have been published they focused quite a bit on this notion of individual people, but especially communities putting limits on their hospitality.And of course, much of this hospitality today comes in the form of, or at least in the context of tourism, of international visitors. And that's kind of the infrastructure that's placed around it. And yet he was arguing essentially for limits on hospitality. And I think what he was seeing, although it hadn't quite come to fruition yet in Oaxaca, was that the commodification, the commercialization of one's local indigenous hospitality, once it's sold, or once it's only existing for the value or money of the foreigner, in a kind of customer service worldview, that it invites this deep [00:35:00] hostility. And so do these limits show up as well in Illich's work in terms of the stranger?Right? Because so much of the Christian tradition is based in a universal fraternity, universal brotherhood. David: I said that Ivan made sense to me in my youth, as a 22 year old man. So I've lived under his influence. I took him as a master, let's say and as a young person. And I would say that probably it's true that I've never gone anywhere that I haven't been invited to go.So I, I could experience that, that I was called to be there. And he was quite the jet setter, so I was often called by him to come to Mexico or to go to Germany or whatever it was. But we live in a world that is so far away from the world that might have been, let's say, the world that [00:36:00] might be.So John Milbank, a British theologian who's Inspiring to me and a friend and somebody who I found surprisingly parallel to Illich in a lot of ways after Ivan died and died I think feeling that he was pretty much alone in some of his understandings. But John Milbank speaks of the, of recovering the future that we've lost, which is obviously have to be based on some sort of historical reconstruction. You have to find the place to go back to, where the wrong turning was, in a certain way. But meanwhile, we live in this world, right? Where even where you are, many people are dependent on tourism. Right? And to that extent they live from it and couldn't instantly do without. To do without it would be, would be catastrophic. Right? So [00:37:00] it's it's not easy to live in both worlds. Right? To live with the understanding that this is, as Gustavo says, it's bound to be a source of hostility, right?Because we can't sell what is ours as an experience for others without changing its character, right, without commodifying it. It's impossible to do. So it must be true and yet, at a certain moment, people feel that it has to be done, right? And so you have to live in in both realities.And in a certain way, the skill of living in both realities is what's there at the beginning, right? That, if you take the formula of the incarnation as a nuclear explosion, well you're still going to have religion, right? So, that's inevitable. The [00:38:00] world has changed and it hasn't changed at the same time.And that's true at every moment. And so you learn to walk, right? You learn to distinguish the gospel from its surroundings. And a story about Ivan that made a big impression on me was that when he was sent to Puerto Rico when he was still active as a priest in 1956 and became vice rector of the Catholic University at Ponce and a member of the school board.A position that he regarded as entirely political. So he said, "I will not in any way operate as a priest while I'm performing a political function because I don't want these two things to get mixed up." And he made a little exception and he bought a little shack in a remote fishing village.Just for the happiness of it, he would go there and say mass for the fishermen who didn't know anything about this other world. So, but that was[00:39:00] a radical conviction and put him at odds with many of the tendencies of his time, as for example, what came to be called liberation theology, right?That there could be a politicized theology. His view was different. His view was that the church as "She," as he said, rather than "it," had to be always distinguished, right? So it was the capacity to distinguish that was so crucial for him. And I would think even in situations where tourism exists and has the effect Gustavo supposed, the beginning of resistance to that and the beginning of a way out of it, is always to distinguish, right?To know the difference, which is a slim read, but, but faith is always a slim read and Ivan's first book, his first collection of published essays was [00:40:00] called Celebration of Awareness which is a way of saying that, what I call know the difference. Chris: So I'm going to, if I can offer you this, this next question, which comes from James, a friend in Guelph, Canada. And James is curious about the missionary mandate of Christianity emphasizing a fellowship in Christ over ethnicity and whether or not this can be reconciled with Illich's perhaps emphatic defense of local or vernacular culture.David: Well, yeah. He illustrates it. I mean, he was a worldwide guy. He was very far from his roots, which were arguably caught. He didn't deracinate himself. Hmm. He was with his mother and brothers exiled from Split in Dalmatia as a boy in the crazy atmosphere of the Thirties.But he was a tumbleweed after [00:41:00] that. Mm-Hmm. . And so, so I think we all live in that world now and this is confuses people about him. So, a historian called Todd Hart wrote a book still really the only book published in English on the history of CIDOC and Cuernavaca, in which he says Illich is anti-missionary. And he rebukes him for that and I would say that Ivan, on his assumptions cannot possibly be anti missionary. He says clearly in his early work that a Christian is a missionary or is not a Christian at all, in the sense that if one has heard the good news, one is going to share it, or one hasn't heard it. Now, what kind of sharing is that? It isn't necessarily, "you have to join my religion," "you have to subscribe to the following ten..." it isn't necessarily a catechism, it may be [00:42:00] an action. It may be a it may be an act of friendship. It may be an act of renunciation. It can be any number of things, but it has to be an outgoing expression of what one has been given, and I think he was, in that sense, always a missionary, and in many places, seeded communities that are seeds of the new church.Right? He spent well, from the time he arrived in the United States in 51, 52, till the time that he withdrew from church service in 68, he was constantly preaching and talking about a new church. And a new church, for him, involved a new relation between innovation and tradition. New, but not new.Since, when he looked back, he saw the gospel was constantly undergoing translation into new milieu, into new places, into new languages, into new forms.[00:43:00] But he encountered it in the United States as pretty much in one of its more hardened or congealed phases, right? And it was the export of that particular brand of cultural and imperialistic, because American, and America happened to be the hegemon of the moment. That's what he opposed.The translation of that into Latin America and people like to write each other into consistent positions, right? So, he must then be anti missionary across the board, right? But so I think you can be local and universal. I mean, one doesn't even want to recall that slogan of, you know, "act locally, think globally," because it got pretty hackneyed, right?And it was abused. But, it's true in a certain way that that's the only way one can be a Christian. The neighbor, you said it, I wrote it, Ivan said it, " the neighbor [00:44:00] can be anyone." Right?But here I am here now, right? So both have to apply. Both have to be true. It's again a complementary relation. And it's a banal thought in a certain way, but it seems to be the thought that I think most often, right, is that what creates a great deal of the trouble in the world is inability to think in a complementary fashion.To think within, to take contradiction as constituting the world. The world is constituted of contradiction and couldn't be constituted in any other way as far as we know. Right? You can't walk without two legs. You can't manipulate without two arms, two hands. We know the structure of our brains. Are also bilateral and everything about our language is constructed on opposition.Everything is oppositional and yet [00:45:00] when we enter the world of politics, it seems we're going to have it all one way. The church is going to be really Christian, and it's going to make everybody really Christian, or communist, what have you, right? The contradiction is set aside. Philosophy defines truth as the absence of contradiction.Hmm. Basically. Hmm. So, be in both worlds. Know the difference. Walk on two feet. That's Ivan. Chris: I love that. And I'm, I'm curious about you know, one of the themes of the podcast is exile. And of course that can mean a lot of things. In the introduction to An Intellectual Journey, you wrote that that Illich, "once he had left Split in the 30s, that he began an experience of exile that would characterize his entire life."You wrote that he had lost "not just the home, but the very possibility [00:46:00] of home." And so it's a theme that characterizes as well the podcast and a lot of these conversations around travel, migration, tourism, what does it mean to be at home and so, this, This notion of exile also shows up quite a bit in the Christian faith.And maybe this is me trying to escape the complementarity of the reality of things. But I tend to see exile as inherently I'll say damaging or consequential in a kind of negative light. And so I've been wondering about this, this exilic condition, right? It's like in the Abrahamic faith, as you write "Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all begin in exile.And eventually this pattern culminates. Jesus is executed outside the gates of the city, nailed to a cross that excludes him even from his native earth." And you write that "exile is in many ways the [00:47:00] Christian condition." And so, you know, I've read that in the past, Christian monks often consider themselves to be homeless, removed from the sort of daily life of the local community in the monasteries and abbeys and yet still of a universal brotherhood. And so I'd like to ask you if you feel this exilic condition, which seems to be also a hallmark of modernity, this kind of constant uprooting this kind of as I would call it, cultural and spiritual homelessness of our time, if you think that is part of the corruption that Illich based his work around?David: Well, one can barely imagine the world in which Abram, who became Abraham said to God, no, I'm staying in Ur. Not going, I'm not going. Right? I mean, if you go back to Genesis and you re read that passage, when God shows [00:48:00] Abraham the land that he will inherit, it says already there, "there were people at that time living in the land," right?Inconvenient people, as it turns out. Palestinians. So, there's a profound contradiction here, I think. And the only way I think you can escape it is to understand the Gospel the way Ivan understood it, which is as something super added to existing local cultures, right? A leaven, right?Hmm. Not everything about a local culture or a local tradition is necessarily good. Mm hmm. And so it can be changed, right? And I would say that Illich insists that Christians are and must be missionaries. They've received something that they it's inherent in what they've [00:49:00] received that they pass it on.So the world will change, right? But Ivan says, this is in Rivers North of the Future, that it's his conviction that the Gospel could have been preached without destroying local proportions, the sense of proportion, and he put a great weight on the idea of proportionality as not just, a pleasing building or a pleasing face, but the very essence of, of how a culture holds together, right, that things are proportioned within it to one another that the gospel could have been preached without the destruction of proportions, but evidently it wasn't, because the Christians felt they had the truth and they were going to share it. They were going to indeed impose it for the good of the other.So, I think a sense of exile and a sense of home are as [00:50:00] necessary to one another as in Ivan's vision of a new church, innovation, and tradition, or almost any other constitutive couplet you can think of, right? You can't expunge exile from the tradition. But you also can't allow it to overcome the possibility of home.I mean, Ivan spoke of his own fate as a peculiar fate, right? He really anticipated the destruction of the Western culture or civilization. I mean, in the sense that now this is a lament on the political right, mainly, right? The destruction of Western civilization is something one constantly hears about.But, he, in a way, in the chaos and catastrophe of the 30s, already felt the death of old Europe. And even as a boy, I think, semi consciously at least, took the roots inside himself, took them with him [00:51:00] and for many people like me, he opened that tradition. He opened it to me. He allowed me to re inhabit it in a certain way, right?So to find intimations of home because he wasn't the only one who lost his home. Even as a man of 78, the world in which I grew up here is gone, forgotten, and to some extent scorned by younger people who are just not interested in it. And so it's through Ivan that I, in a way, recovered the tradition, right?And if the tradition is related to the sense of home, of belonging to something for good or ill, then that has to be carried into the future as best we can, right? I think Ivan was searching for a new church. He didn't think. He had found it. He didn't think he knew what it was.I don't think he [00:52:00] described certain attributes of it. Right. But above all, he wanted to show that the church had taken many forms in the past. Right. And it's worldly existence did not have to be conceived on the model of a monarchy or a parish, right, another form that he described in some early essays, right.We have to find the new form, right? It may be radically non theological if I can put it like that. It may not necessarily involve the buildings that we call churches but he believed deeply in the celebrating community. As the center, the root the essence of social existence, right? The creation of home in the absence of home, or the constant recreation of home, right? Since I mean, we will likely never again live in pure [00:53:00] communities, right? Yeah. I don't know if pure is a dangerous word, but you know what I mean?Consistent, right? Closed. We're all of one kind, right? Right. I mean, this is now a reactionary position, right? Hmm. You're a German and you think, well, Germany should be for the Germans. I mean, it can't be for the Germans, seemingly. We can't put the world back together again, right?We can't go back and that's a huge misreading of Illich, right? That he's a man who wants to go back, right? No. He was radically a man who wanted to rediscover the future. And rescue it. Also a man who once said to hell with the future because he wanted to denounce the future that's a computer model, right? All futures that are projections from the present, he wanted to denounce in order to rediscover the future. But it has to be ahead of us. It's not. And it has to recover the deposit that is behind us. So [00:54:00] both, the whole relation between past and future and indeed the whole understanding of time is out of whack.I think modern consciousness is so entirely spatialized that the dimension of time is nearly absent from it, right? The dimension of time as duration as the integument by which past, present and future are connected. I don't mean that people can't look at their watch and say, you know, "I gotta go now, I've got a twelve o'clock." you know.So, I don't know if that's an answer to James.Chris: I don't know, but it's food for thought and certainly a feast, if I may say so. David, I have two final questions for you, if that's all right, if you have time. Okay, wonderful. So, speaking of this notion of home and and exile and the complementarity of the two and you know you wrote and [00:55:00] spoke to this notion of Illich wanting to rediscover the future and he says that "we've opened a horizon on which new paradigms for thought can appear," which I think speaks to what you were saying and At some point Illich compares the opening of horizons to leaving home on a pilgrimage, as you write in your book."And not the pilgrimage of the West, which leads over a traveled road to a famed sanctuary, but rather the pilgrimage of the Christian East, which does not know where the road might lead and the journey end." And so my question is, What do you make of that distinction between these types of pilgrimages and what kind of pilgrimage do you imagine might be needed in our time?David: Well, I, I mean, I think Ivan honored the old style of pilgrimage whether it was to [00:56:00] Canterbury or Santiago or wherever it was to. But I think ivan's way of expressing the messianic was in the word surprise, right? One of the things that I think he did and which was imposed on him by his situation and by his times was to learn to speak to people in a way that did not draw on any theological resource, so he spoke of his love of surprises, right? Well, a surprise by definition is what you don't suspect, what you don't expect. Or it couldn't be a surprise.So, the The cathedral in Santiago de Compostela is very beautiful, I think. I've only ever seen pictures of it, but you must expect to see it at the end of your road. You must hope to see it at the end of your road. Well the surprise is going to be something else. Something that isn't known.[00:57:00] And it was one of his Great gifts to me that within the structure of habit and local existence, since I'm pretty rooted where I am. And my great grandfather was born within walking distance of where I am right now. He helped me to look for surprises and to accept them also, right?That you're going to show up or someone else is going to show up, right? But there's going to be someone coming and you want to look out for the one who's coming and not, but not be at all sure that you know who or what it is or which direction it's coming from. So, that was a way of life in a certain way that I think he helped others within their limitations, within their abilities, within their local situations, to see the world that way, right. That was part of what he did. Chris: Yeah, it's really beautiful and I can [00:58:00] see how in our time, in a time of increasing division and despondency and neglect, fear even, resentment of the other, that how that kind of surprise and the lack of expectation, the undermining, the subversion of expectation can find a place into perhaps the mission of our times.And so my final question comes back to friendship. and interculturality. And I have one final quote here from An Intellectual Journey, which I highly recommend everyone pick up, because it's just fascinating and blows open so many doors. David: We need to sell a few more books, because I want that book in paperback. Because I want it to be able to live on in a cheaper edition. So, yes. Chris: Of course. Thank you. Yeah. Please, please pick it up. It's worth every penny. So in An Intellectual Journey, it is written[00:59:00] by Illich that "when I submit my heart, my mind, my body, I come to be below the other. When I listen unconditionally, respectfully, courageously, with the readiness to take in the other as a radical surprise, I do something else. I bow, bend over toward the total otherness of someone. But I renounce searching for bridges between the other and me, recognizing that a gulf separates us.Leaning into this chasm makes me aware of the depth of my loneliness, and able to bear it in the light of the substantial likeness between the Other and myself. All that reaches me is the Other in His Word, which I accept on faith."And so, David at another point in the biography you quote Illich describing faith as foolish. Now assuming that faith elicits a degree of danger or [01:00:00] betrayal or that it could elicit that through a kind of total trust, is that nonetheless necessary to accept the stranger or other as they are? Or at least meet the stranger or other as they are? David: I would think so, yeah. I mean the passage you've quoted, I think to understand it, it's one of the most profound of his sayings to me and one I constantly revert to, but to accept the other in his word, or on his word, or her word, is, I think you need to know that he takes the image of the word as the name of the Lord, very, very seriously, and its primary way of referring to the Christ, is "as the Word."Sometimes explicitly, sometimes not explicitly, you have to interpret. So, when he says that he renounces looking for bridges, I think he's mainly referring [01:01:00] to ideological intermediations, right, ways in which I, in understanding you exceed my capacity. I try to change my name for you, or my category for you, changes you, right?It doesn't allow your word. And, I mean, he wasn't a man who suffered fools gladly. He had a high regard for himself and used his time in a fairly disciplined way, right? He wasn't waiting around for others in their world. So by word, what does he mean?What is the other's word? Right? It's something more fundamental than the chatter of a person. So, I think what that means is that we can be linked to one another by Christ. So that's [01:02:00] the third, right? That yes, we're alone. Right? We haven't the capacity to reach each other, except via Christ.And that's made explicit for him in the opening of Aylred of Riveau's Treatise on Friendship, which was peculiarly important to him. Aylred was an abbot at a Cistercian monastery in present day Yorkshire, which is a ruin now. But he wrote a treatise on friendship in the 12th century and he begins by addressing his brother monk, Ivo, and says, you know, " here we are, you and I, and I hope a third Christ."So, Christ is always the third, right? So, in that image of the gulf, the distance, experiencing myself and my loneliness and yet renouncing any bridge, there is still a word, the word, [01:03:00] capital W, in which a word, your word, my word, participates, or might participate. So, we are building, according to him, the body of Christ but we have to renounce our designs on one another, let's say, in order to do that. So I mean, that's a very radical saying, the, the other in his word and in another place in The Rivers North of the Future, he says how hard that is after a century of Marxism or Freudianism, he mentions. But, either way he's speaking about my pretension to know you better than you know yourself, which almost any agency in our world that identifies needs, implicitly does. I know what's best for you. So Yeah, his waiting, his ability to wait for the other one is, is absolutely [01:04:00] foundational and it's how a new world comes into existence. And it comes into existence at every moment, not at some unimaginable future when we all wait at the same time, right? My friend used to say that peace would come when everybody got a good night's sleep on the same night. It's not very likely, is it? Right, right, right. So, anyway, there we are. Chris: Wow. Well, I'm definitely looking forward to listening to this interview again, because I feel like just like An Intellectual Journey, just like your most recent book my mind has been, perhaps exploded, another nuclear bomb dropped.David: Chris, nice to meet you. Chris: Yeah, I'll make sure that that book and, of course, links to yours are available on the end of the website. David: Alright, thank you. Chris: Yeah, deep bow, David. Thank you for your time today. David: All the best. And thank you for those questions. Yeah. That was that was very interesting. You know, I spent my life as an interviewer. A good part of my [01:05:00] life. And interviewing is very hard work. It's much harder than talking. Listening is harder than talking. And rarer. So, it's quite a pleasure for me, late in life, to be able to just let her rip, and let somebody else worry about is this going in the right direction? So, thank you. Get full access to ⌘ Chris Christou ⌘ at chrischristou.substack.com/subscribe

REMINDER TO SIGN UP FOR THE 8-WEEK COURSE BEFORE SEPT. 15! https://www.theenneagramschool.com/dreams-and-the-enneagram-class  Today, Kristen and Kaisa explore the idea of what ‘identity' is, how it is seen by the ego, how it's perceived or talked about in the ‘collective', what even is the ‘collective', and how confusing all of this stuff is. They discuss personal examples, where they are currently, and how this material is allowing them to change the way they see themselves and the world. “The self divided is precisely where the self is authentically located... We all have identity crises because a single identity is a delusion of the monotheistic mind... Authenticity is in the illusion, playing it, seeing through it from within as we play it, like an actor who sees through his mask and can only see in this way.” - James Hillman

  Trickster Medicine Today is the exact 28th anniversary of the Visionary Activist Show, September 5th, 1996 First guest – James Hillman, splendiferous humming with current pertinence show, that we re-play today, in a discussion that could have happened 20 minutes ago, about the importance of ‘growing down' into one's self, recognizing demonic mythological possession at play, and awakening the imagination of everyone to dream the desirable world into being …followed by Democracy Now clip with Gershon Baskin, with whom we dedicate to the Peace Deal he animates… Democracy Now began the same year as Visionary Activist Show… We are Democracy Now – On Mushrooms, entheo edition, restoring astro*mytho*politico participatory literacy woof to culture… Vision and Action be Trickster Medicine, the sine qua non for effectively  vitalizing all our dedications….. Let's hold many stories simultaneously, cooperating with the good in all…     Caroline W. Casey · www.CoyoteNetworkNews.com The post The Visionary Activist Show – 28 Years of Trickster Medicine! appeared first on KPFA.

Award-winning journalist and Hillman biographer Dick Russell discusses his recent book The Life and Ideas of James Hillman: Volume II: Revisioning Psychology with Patricia Martin. Dick Russell is the award-winning author of fifteen non-fiction books, including three New York Times best-sellers. In addition to his biographical trilogy about depth psychologist James Hillman, he has just […] The post Jung in the World | Decoding James Hillman with Dick Russell appeared first on C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago.

Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LEPHTHANDIn this monologue, Sereptie explores the fascinating intersections of alchemy, psychoanalysis, and poststructuralist philosophy. The discussion centers around the concept of alchemical salt, its significance in Renaissance alchemical traditions, and its appropriation in 20th-century psychological theories. This episode connects these ideas with the works of Carl Jung, James Hillman, and Jacques Derrida, offering a unique perspective on the formation and function of subjectivity and how they challenge the polemics of Jordan Peterson.Support the Show.Support the podcast:https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/Linktree: https://linktr.ee/acidhorizonAcid Horizon on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/acidhorizonpodcastSubscribe to us on your favorite podcast: https://pod.link/1512615438Merch: http://www.crit-drip.comOrder 'Anti-Oculus: A Philosophy of Escape': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/anti-oculus-a-philosophy-of-escape/Order 'The Philosopher's Tarot': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-philosophers-tarot/Subscribe to us on your favorite podcast: https://pod.link/1512615438 LEPHT HAND: https://www.patreon.com/LEPHTHANDHappy Hour at Hippel's (Adam's blog): https://happyhourathippels.wordpress.com​Revolting Bodies (Will's Blog): https://revoltingbodies.com​Split Infinities (Craig's Substack): https://splitinfinities.substack.com/​Music: https://sereptie.bandcamp.com/ and https://thecominginsurrection.bandcamp.com/

A reflection on James Hillman's notion that growth is a type of loss. Be sure to subscribe on my website if you want more info about preordering, the book launch party and more! https://www.quiqueautrey.com/book

To honour the milestone 50th episode, I'm joined by Richard Tarnas, a renowned historian and archetypal cosmologist. August 8th is the peak of the astrological event known as the Lion's Gate Portal. The Sun (in Leo) aligns with Sirius, Orion's Belt, and Earth. Simultaneously, Orion's Belt aligns with the Pyramids of Giza. Ancient Egyptians revered Sirius, the “spiritual star,” and associated it with gods Osiris and Sopdet. Each year the rising of Sirius marked the flooding of the Nile. As author of The Passion of the Western Mind and Cosmos and Psyche, Richard is the ideal guest to mark the occasion. He is the founding director of the graduate program in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness at the California Institute of Integral Studies. He teaches courses in the history of ideas, archetypal studies, depth psychology, and religious evolution. For ten years he lived and worked at Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, studying with the likes of Stanislav Grof, Joseph Campbell, and James Hillman, later serving as Esalen's director of programs and education. In re-enchanting the Western worldview, Richard traces the historical and cultural roots of the modern mind. Although much was gained, much was lost, including the ensoulment of the cosmos, and a sense of participation with higher forms of intelligence. Is civilisation experiencing a mythological fall from grace due to human hubris? Is global chaos a symbolic manifestation of humanity's descent into the underworld? How can a new worldview support spiritual transformation, sense-making, and flourishing on a global scale? Before we begin, one more special announcement: Richard is one of a number of contributing authors, including myself, for the new volume by the Academy for the Advancement of Postmaterialist Sciences: The Playful Universe: Synchronicity and the Nature of Consciousness. The book is released late August, with an online symposium scheduled for the 26th or 27th September. Resources Richard's Website. Article: Introduction to The Playful Universe: Synchronicity and the Nature of Consciousness. Article: Is The Modern Psyche Undergoing a Rite of Passage? Epilogue of Passion of the Western Mind.

Animals have been an integral part of human existence since our earliest origins. They are deeply ingrained within us and play a crucial role in the unconscious. In various religions, animals are revered as gods. Swiss psychiatrist and psychologist Carl Jung frequently remarked that animals embodied the divine aspect of the human psyche. He wrote a bold statement for a thinker of his era, "Even domestic animals, to whom we erroneously deny a conscience, have complexes and moral reactions.” We belong to the animal kingdom, and knowing this is part of the individuation process, the journey towards wholeness. Yet, we seem to have forgotten our roots. The animal is a symbol of the Self. It embodies the complete wisdom of nature yet does not possess the light of human consciousness. Animals are deeply connected to a “secret” order within nature itself and the absolute knowledge of the unconscious, living according to their own inner laws beyond human notions of good and evil. Animals live exactly as they were meant to live, and grasp a sense of wholeness instinctively, rather than intellectually. They are the ones who can lead us to this source of natural life.

Discover how to harness the power of archetypes to transform your life and leadership. In this interview, archetypal astrologer Dr. Laurence Hillman shares his innovative Archetypes at Work™ model and how it can help you unleash your full potential in an increasingly complex world. Dr. Hillman's Site: https://laurencehillman.com/ In this podcast interview, Dr. Laurence Hillman, a pioneering archetypal astrologer, discusses his groundbreaking Archetypes at Work™ model. This universal framework, based on 10 core archetypes represented by planetary symbology, provides a language for understanding human motivation and behavior. Dr. Hillman emphasizes the importance of developing both left-brain and right-brain capabilities, particularly in light of increasing complexity and the rise of artificial intelligence (AI). He shares how the Archetypes at Work™ model can be applied for personal growth, leadership development, team dynamics, and organizational transformation. By learning to identify and embody different archetypal energies, individuals can tap into their full potential and thrive in all areas of life. The interview also explores the limitations of reductionistic approaches to psychology and the value of engaging with subjectivity, intuition, and symbolic thinking for deep understanding and change. Dr. Laurence Hillman is an archetypal astrologer, coach, and speaker with over 45 years of experience. He is the co-creator of the Archetypes at Work™ model used for leadership development and organizational transformation. Hillman holds a PhD and travels the world teaching and consulting. He is passionate about helping people embrace their full potential by understanding and utilizing the power of archetypes. Hillman is the son of the late James Hillman, the founder of archetypal psychology.   #ArchetypesAtWork #ArchetypalPsychology #LeadershipDevelopment #PersonalGrowth #OrganizationalTransformation #InnovationThroughArchetypes #ArchetypalCoaching #ArchetypalAstrology #WholeBrainLeadership #CreativityAndIntuition #RightBrainLeadership #MindsetMastery #ArchetypalEmbodiment #ArchetypalConsulting #PurposeDrivenLeadership   Website: https://gettherapybirmingham.com/ Check out the youtube: https://youtube.com/@GetTherapyBirmingham Podcast Website: https://gettherapybirmingham.podbean.com/ Podcast Feed: https://feed.podbean.com/GetTherapyBirmingham/feed.xml Taproot Therapy Collective 2025 Shady Crest Drive | Hoover, Alabama 35216 Phone: (205) 598-6471 Fax: (205) 634-3647 Email: Admin@GetTherapyBirmingham.com

Philosopher, Scientist, Author and mystic, Dr. Tom Cheetham enters the mind meld. Video episode

GUEST 1 OVERVIEW: Dick Russell, author of The Real RFK Jr.: Trials of a Truth Warrior, is an investigative journalist and the eclectic author of fifteen books, including three New York Times bestsellers co-authored with Jesse Ventura and Eye of the Whale, named a Best Book of the Year in 2001 by three major newspapers. His book The Man Who Knew Too Much, probing the forces behind the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, has been hailed as a “masterpiece of historical reconstruction.” The final two volumes of his biographical trilogy, The Life and Ideas of James Hillman, are being published in 2023. Russell is also the author of Black Genius and the American Experience and the memoir My Mysterious Son: A Life-Changing Passage Between Schizophrenia and Shamanism. He was a recipient of the citizen's Chevron Conservation Award for his environmental activism. Russell resides in Los Angeles. GUEST 2 OVERVIEW: Edward Berenson is a professor of history at NYU and NYU's Institute of French Studies. Berenson is a cultural historian specializing in the history of modern France and its empire, with additional interests in the history of Britain, the British Empire, and the United States. In 1999, Berenson received the American Historical Association's Eugene Asher Distinguished Teaching Award, having earlier won UCLA's Distinguished Teaching Award. In 2006, French President Jacques Chirac decorated him as Chevalier de l'Ordre du Mérite.

In this episode, we embark on a captivating exploration of F. Scott Fitzgerald's timeless classic, The Great Gatsby. We analyze the novel's prophetic qualities, its commentary on the cyclical nature of history, and its profound insights into the human psyche. Through the lens of Jungian psychology, we examine the anima and animus archetypes embodied by Fitzgerald and his contemporary, Ernest Hemingway, and how their works reflect the eternal struggle between the intuitive and the assertive. We also discuss how The Great Gatsby serves as a powerful warning about the pitfalls of the American Dream and the dangers of becoming trapped in the past. Join us for this illuminating discussion on one of the most influential novels of the 20th century. #TheGreatGatsby #FScottFitzgerald #LiteraryAnalysis #JungianArchetypes #AnimaAnimus #AmericanDream #Modernism #Literature #History #Psychology #Podcast #iTunes #Spotify #Stitcher #GooglePodcasts #Subscribe   The Expansive Decadent Ego of the Animus and the Introspective Bust and Decline of the Anima as Parts of Empire Cultures wax and wane. Empires that seem like part of the cosmos itself fall like gunshot victims into a pool or lines on a bar chart. It is the rare work that can speak to both the sparkle of spectacle and the timeless inevitable real it distracts us from. The Great Gatsby was an immediate success and then forgotten and then rediscovered. It was forgotten because the Jazz age was a, beautiful maybe, but still nearsighted dalliance. Fitzgerald was lumped in with all of the other out of date out of style gaucheness the book was mistaken as a celebration of. It was rediscovered because critics realized the book was like one of those sweetly scented break up notes that is written so beautifully that the dumped sod misreads it as a love letter and puts it with the other love notes unawares. The Great Gatsby was a warning; and you can only hear the warning after the fall. Perhaps half love letter and half kiss off, some part of Fitzgerald knew that his world was ending. The Jazz age was the parodos, or fun act of the ancient Greek tragedy where characters expound humorously against the chorus on the character faults that will undue them against the grinding unwinding of time. Ancient Greece and Rome look the same in the periphery and quite different in focus. Greeks sought to be ideal through archetype where Romans sought reality through realism. Greece, like F. Scott Fitzgerald, dealt in the realm of the anima - the passive, intuitive, and emotional aspects of the psyche. They were comfortable with beauty through vulnerability and had a poetic culture that celebrated poetic introspection. The Greeks were fascinated with the introspective world of the psyche, and their ability to express complex emotions and ideas through symbolic and mythological language. To them archetypes were like platonic forms, or perfect ideals, removed from time. [caption id="attachment_4983" align="aligncenter" width="225"]Ancient Greek Beauty[/caption] Rome, like Fitzgerald's contemporary Ernest Hemingway, was more closely associated with the qualities of the animus - the masculine, assertive, and imperialistic, aspects of the psyche. Roman culture was characterized by its emphasis on law, order, and external appearances of military might. It gave rise to some of the most impressive feats of engineering, architecture, and political organization in the ancient world. The Romans were known for their practicality, their discipline, and their ability to translate ideas into concrete realities. To Rome the aspirational and ideological only mattered in hindsight. [caption id="attachment_4984" align="aligncenter" width="300"]Ancient Roman Beauty[/caption] To a Greek one noticed the archetype or one failed to. To a Roman on created the archetype.  Humans made things real or we didn't. Romans got credit for ideas in a way that Greeks didn't. To a Greek we were glimpsing the inevitable realms of the possible. Time was cyclical. Ideas were external. You didn't have ideas, they had you. For Romans a man came up with the ideas. This is an interesting dichotomy because both ideas are true but paradoxical ways of studying the psyche. All of the early modernists engaged with this dialectic differently. Fitzgerald leaned Greek animistic, Hemingway leaned into the Roman Animus and other contemporaries like Gertrude Stein tried to bridge the divide. There was no way around as literature progressed. Greece and Rome were also deeply interconnected and mutually influential. Greek art, literature, and philosophy had a profound impact on Roman culture, and many Romans saw themselves as the heirs and stewards of the Greek intellectual tradition. At the same time, Roman law, government, and military power provided a framework for the spread and preservation of Greek ideas throughout the Mediterranean world. We need both the anima and animus to be the whole self, effective at wrestling the present and possible together if we are to effectively act on the impending real. The intuition of the anima can let us see the future through dreams of creativity and visions for the possible but the animus is what lets us bring our agency to bear on the present moment. It is easy to hide in either one but miss the both. I read The Great Gatsby in high school and it  was one of the few assigned readings I didn't hate. I wanted to read Michael Crichton and classical mythology primary sources but the curriculum wanted me to slog through things like Nathaniel Hawthorne and Zora Neal Hurston. I enjoyed the points those authors made, criticizing puritanism, and celebrating African American folk culture respectively but I thought the stylism made reading them a slog. The Great Gatsby was simple and I have reflected on it over the course of my life. In high-school I saw Hemingway and Fitzgerald as two halves of the same coin. Fitzgerald was the nostalgic, reflective anima to Hemingway's masculine animus. Hemingway jumped headlong into the morphine promises of modernism. Fitzgerald seemed to reflect on modernity better because he was pulled begrudgingly into it while trying to look further and further back into the past and its inevitabilities of "progress". Most of my friends were manly Hemingway's comfortable in the logos of the accessible real, and I was a navel-gazing Fitzgerald who only felt comfortable cloaked in the mythos of intuitive spaces In Jungian psychology, the concepts of anima and animus are crucial for understanding the inner world of the creative. The anima represents the feminine aspects within the male psyche, while the animus represents the masculine aspects within the female psyche. A healthy integration of these archetypes is essential for wholeness in the personal life behind the creative works. As a therapist I find those and other Jungian concepts usefully to understand why certain people gravitate naturally to things over the course of their life. Fitzgerald's work and life were dominated by his anima, which manifested in his nostalgic yearning for the past, his romantic idealization of women, and his sensitivity to the nuances of emotion and beauty. While these qualities fueled his artistic genius, they also left him vulnerable to depression, addiction, and a sense of alienation from the modern world. It was this alienation from modernism while writing as a modernist that gave Gatsby a timeless predictive quality Hemingway lacks. Ultimately he was able to predict the future as a creative but unable to adapt to it as a man. Hemingway, on the other hand, embodied the over-identified animus - the archetypal masculine energy that values strength, independence, and action above all else. His writing celebrated the virtues of courage, stoicism, and physical prowess, and he cultivated a public image as a rugged adventurer and man of action. However, this one-sided embrace of the animus left Hemingway emotionally stunted, unable to connect deeply with others or to find peace within himself. Hemingway is all bombastic adventure and when the adventure is over there was little left. One of  their other contemporaries, Gertrude Stein seems to have been able to achieve a kind of dynamic balance between her masculine and feminine qualities. This is not to say that she was free from all psychological conflicts or blind spots, but rather that she was able to channel her energies into her work and her relationships in a way that was largely generative, sustainable and life-affirming. Stein's life and work could be seen as an example of the transformative power of integrating the anima and animus within the psyche. Fitzgerald's own insecurities and traumas contributed significantly to his anima-dominated psyche and artistic worldview. Fitzgerald remained haunted throughout his life. Had he lived long enough to encounter Jung's work, Fitzgerald would have likely been profoundly influenced by it. Jay Gatsby seems to be the Jungian archetype of the "puer aeternus" (eternal boy) frozen by an impossible to attain object of desire and a refusal to grow up. A charming, appealing, affecting but ultimately failed visionary chasing red herrings. Fitzgerald himself seemed to go down the same path as other male Jungian's, most notably, James Hillman and Robert Moore, failing to fully "ride the animus" and integrate their assertive energies to manifest changes in their personal lives. All were beautiful artists but not always beautiful men, especially in their end. There seems to be a common thread in these anima over identified men - a childhood trauma that stifles self-expression, which paradoxically fosters a some what  magical, intuitive, visionary ability to see the future. In adulthood, this ability makes one a profound artist, garnering success and a wide audience. However, the external validation and success do not heal the original, still screaming, wound. This disconnect between outer success and the failure of that success to balm the original inner pain that sparked the need for it is something that many artists and depth psychologists of this personality type struggle to reconcile from. In high-school they told me The Great Gatsby was the greatest novel ever written and expected me to believe them. They also told me that getting straight A's meant you were smart, that the hardest working got the highest paid, and that all they really wanted me to do was think for myself. All were clearly lies a sophistic system thought I was better off if I believed. Obviously I had to find out later, pushing 40, that the book was on to something great. Or, maybe you have to see the rise and fall of celebrity and missiles and trends and less obvious lies in your life before you start to get the book as its own second act. Saying The Great Gatsby is a good book is like talking about how the Beatles were a great band or the Grand Canyon is big. It's kind of done to death, and it's even silly to say out loud to someone. Everyone had to read it in high school. To say it is your favorite book instantly makes others wonder if you have read another book that you didn't have to read freshman year. Oh, Hamlet is your other "favorite" book? Thinks the person who knows you have skimmed two books in your life and the test. How do you get the prescience of an extremely simple story at 16? How was anyone supposed to in 1925? The Great Gatsby is, perhaps by accident, not really about what it is about. The Great Gatsby is a worm's eye view of the universe that reminds us that our humanity itself IS a worm's eye view of the universe and that our worms eye view on it and each other is what keeps us sane. Sane and the gears of the spectacle of culture and grinding along out of psychic neccesity. We are a myopic species stuck in our own stories and others' stories, but not on our own terms. We are caught between improv and archetype but never free of either. Both subject to the human inevitable indelible programmed narrative and object of our own make-believe individual freedom from it. The Great Gatsby is a book that you read in high school because you could hand it to almost anyone. It has done numbers historically and currently as a work in translation. It holds up some kind of truth to students in places like Iran who have no experience with prohibition, with alcohol, with American culture as insiders. Yet they still feel something relevant connecting them to the real. It works because the characters are kind of stupid. It works because the moral of the story is, on its face, (and just like high school) kind of wrong. The Great Gatsby did see the future; it just didn't know what it saw. I write about intuition quite a bit on our blog, and the thing that I think makes art interesting is when the work of art sees past the knowledge of the artist making the work. The Great Gatsby gets a lot of credit for being prophetic in that it saw the Great Depression as the end of the Jazz age, but it did so because Fitzgerald was seeing his own end. Fitzgerald was severely alcoholic during prohibition, delaying his own deadlines for the novel that almost didn't get there with excuses to his publishers. What would he become after the Volstead Act was repealed? What would the country become after the economic bender that the upper class threw for itself in front of masses that were starving? The power of the novel is when it knows that empires rise and fall. It's when it knows that the valley of ashes is watching your yellow car speed by with dull sad eyes. It's power is in knowing the feeling that when you get what you want, you don't really deserve it, or maybe it doesn't deserve you. Maybe it implies that time is something that we use, tick by tock, as a proxy for meaning because we fundamentally "fumble with clocks" like Gatsby and can't understand time. We need our history and our idolatry of the past to make meaning, but when the lens for our meaning-making remains fixed, the world becomes a pedestal to dark gods demanding the worship of the past at the expense of the future. As a man or a nation, we are bound to hit someone if  we look in the rearview mirror to long. The green light on the dock is a symbol that we mistake for the real thing and "take the long walk of the short dock". With this dishonest relationship to time, we all become a Gatsby or a Tom. I am not sure which is worse. We either lack all ambition and live to keep up appearances, or we have so much ambition that we become the lie. The "beautiful shirts" are just a glittering, stupid, trendy identity that we nationally put on every couple of years to forget that we're about to sink into another depression. Skinny ties are out and gunmetal is in! makes us never have to look at  the other side of ourselves or our empire. The past gives us meaning and identity even as it slowly destroys us and robs us of those things. We are forced to use it as a reference point even though we know this relationship between us and it is doomed. We cannot stop the need for the next recession in this society any more than we cannot stop the need for the next drawer of trendy clothes. The American Dream is a kind of nightmare, but it is still a dream because it keeps us sleeping through the nightmare we are in. Realization of lost purpose, regret and nostalgia, superficiality, emotional turmoil, or tone deaf foreshadowing are not things you need to look at when movies and wars are inventing such beautiful coverings for our imperial core and rent seeking economy. Why then do we cry? Wake up the organist, we are getting bored. In The Great Gatsby, like in a Dickens novel, the plot is the archetype, and that necessitates a lot of conveniences. That might seem like a point of criticism, but it is also very human. Perhaps these truths become tropes are not faults of the plot or its contrivances but reasons for humanity, namely humans in America, to introspect. As individuals or as a society, we turn our insecurity into some amazing and impossible outcome, and then we, like Gatsby, do that to compensate for what we refuse to accept, what we refuse to change about who we are or where we come from. Jay Gatsby is myopic, but he is too naive to be a narcissist. He is just sort of a dream of himself he forgot he was dreaming. Nothing in Fitzgerald's prose leans into The Great Gatsby being directly interpreted as a dream, but it is one possible interpretation that the novel is a sort of collective dream. There is a Tom Buchanan in all of us also. Someone who would burn the world down just because we can't have the lie that we want others to believe about us anymore. He is a refusal to accept the reasonable limitations that might have prevented the Great depression.  If we can't have the whole world, we will blow the whole world up! That is another tension (still unresolved) that The Great Gatsby saw coming for humanity. The two forces of the lie and the dream are the things that make the boom and bust cycle of recession and surplus that have sustained America, sustain the lie in the individual and the society. but shhhhhhh..... it's a dream not a lie!? Just like highschool the powers that be think that you are better off if you believe it. Greece and Rome are relevant details to this reflection on a novel because neither one would have really mattered to history without the other half. Greece invented the culture and religious structure and Rome became the megaphone to amplify expansion of that culture. We study them as highschool students but we don't want to see those distinctions even now. The predictive element in Fitzgerald made him live in a timeless present. His assumptions were at worst  Platonic archetypes where all characters expressed  endless inevitable cycles. At worst his characters were,Aristotelian ideal of knowledge; where ideas had characters, so  characters could not have ideas. Hemingway lived in a Roman, timeless present. Awareness of cycles of  historical and social forces were not important. Maybe  you identify with his archetypes and maybe not. He could not see through them. America when it needs to do advertising for a new product, movie or war will always side with Hemingway. I guess The Old Man and The Sea always feels important, to the individual, but it lacks relevance to the pathos and later deimos that society needs to really introspect well. God is still a broken-down billboard, and only the stupid or the insane in America can recognize God for what he is. If God is happy with what he sees, we clearly are to distracted to notice Him. If god is unhappy, then he does not approve of my America, so he must not be really be God. This is the double bind that the eyes of T.J. Eckleburg, long out of business, put us in. Love me, and you must not be infallible; dislike me, and you must be wrong. Fitzgerald ended his novel, but not his life, on the right note. Listen up creatives. And so we beat on, boats against the current. Ceaselessly borne back into the past. How do you end yours? How do you live it. You read it at 16 but how old are you now? The narrator, Nick Carraway, is a perfect observer because he is hopelessly naive, knowing nothing about human life or experience. He learns all of it in the course of a few days from the terrible follies of the gods of his world - the complete pantheon of all the most powerful forces of the '20s, the real, the now. The traditional historic "blue cover" of The Great Gatsby juxtaposes the face of a '20s flapper with the skyline of a city lit for celebration. The flapper's face is studded with the traditional burlesque Cleopatra makeup that already juxtaposes a beauty mark with a teardrop. In the cover, the rising celebration of a firework becomes a teardrop falling. Is up and down forever really the same direction?, the book asks you before you open it. The Wall Street Journal tells you that same thing today in more words. Fitzgerald never found a way to see past himself, even when he wrote those truths in his fiction.  He ended his career in Hollywood, helping better screenwriters by coasting on his reputation from the book that became a meteoric firework. In the end, he became a cautionary tale, a reminder that even the most gifted among us are not immune to the ravages of trauma and addiction masquerading as intuition and artistry and the weight of unfulfilled dreams. What does Nick do with his when the book ends in the Autumn of 22? Did he make it out of the Autumn Summer cycle of New York? Do we? Summary of Key Points for SEO purposes: The Great Gatsby speaks to both the sparkle of spectacle and the timeless inevitable reality it distracts us from. It was initially successful, then forgotten, and later rediscovered as a prescient warning. The essay compares ancient Greek and Roman cultures to the anima and animus in Jungian psychology. It posits that F. Scott Fitzgerald embodied the anima while Ernest Hemingway embodied the animus. A healthy psyche requires integrating both. Fitzgerald's own traumas and insecurities contributed to his anima-dominated psyche. His life and work, especially the character of Jay Gatsby, seem to align with the Jungian archetype of the "puer aeternus" (eternal boy). The essay argues The Great Gatsby is prophetic in foreseeing the end of the Jazz Age and the coming Great Depression, even if Fitzgerald didn't fully comprehend the implications of his own novel. The novel's enduring appeal lies in its simple yet profound truths about the human condition - our need for meaning from the past, the dangers of living in a dream or lie, the inevitable boom and bust cycles of individuals and societies. The essay suggests The Great Gatsby can be interpreted as a collective dream, with Jay Gatsby representing naive ambition and Tom Buchanan representing entitled destruction. Ultimately, Fitzgerald became a cautionary tale, showing that even the most gifted are not immune to unfulfilled dreams and inner demons. The novel asks if we can break free of the cycles of our pasts. The eyes of Dr. T.J. Eckleburg on the billboard are interpreted as a symbol of a broken-down God, whom only the stupid or insane in America can recognize for what he truly is. The essay suggests that if God is happy with what he sees, people are too distracted to notice Him, and if God is unhappy, then He must not approve of America, and therefore cannot really be God. This creates a double bind for the characters and readers, forcing them to either accept a fallible God or reject a disapproving one. The American Dream is portrayed as a nightmare that keeps people asleep, preventing them from confronting the harsh realities of their lives and society. The essay argues that the need for the next economic recession is as inevitable as the need for the next trendy fashion. The essay points out that the plot of The Great Gatsby relies on archetypes and conveniences, which might seem like a flaw but actually reflects the human tendency to seek meaning in familiar patterns and narratives. The eyes of Dr. T.J. Eckleburg on the billboard are interpreted as a symbol of a seemingly absent or indifferent God, who either approves of the characters' actions or is powerless to intervene. This creates a double bind for the characters and readers alike. The essay emphasizes the importance of the novel's narrator, Nick Carraway, as a naive observer who learns about the complexities and tragedies of life through his encounters with the other characters. His journey mirrors the reader's own process of disillusionment and realization.  

Kaisa and Kristen continue talking about the themes, images, and other dissections of James Hillman's essay, ‘The Thought of the Heart'. Along with general discussion, this episode loosely summarizes the previous readings and investigates possible future discoveries in the heart center and the realm of dreams. Some personal reflections and sporadic concepts make their way into the conversation and direct the flow of the two nines vibing and incising. Resources; ‘Thought of the Heart' essay by James Hillman; http://www.compilerpress.ca/Competitiveness/Anno/Anno%20Hillman%20Thoughts.htm Josh Lavine & John Luckovich's course on the Developmental View of the Centers; https://www.theenneagramschool.com/developmental-centers Jason E. Smith; ‘Religious But Not Religious'

Kaisa and Kristen talk about James Hillman's essay ‘The Thought of the Heart' and how it relates to our connection (or lack of) to the heart center. We have personal as well as societal reflections on this material and what it could mean for individual types and where the heart is operating in our/their type structure. We get quite animated about the hidden gems of the heart center, and are determined to see what we start to uncover in the unconscious on the matter.  Resources; ‘Thought of the Heart' essay by James Hillman; http://www.compilerpress.ca/Competitiveness/Anno/Anno%20Hillman%20Thoughts.htm Josh Lavine & John Luckovich's course on the Developmental View of the Centers; https://www.theenneagramschool.com/developmental-centers Big Hormone Enneagram - Harlem Hearts https://open.spotify.com/episode/1S3WIcR1Zd047WP909n9VQ?si=319d989e3ad14b4d

Laurence Cole is a song elder and ritualist based in Port Townsend, Washington. An abiding thread throughout his life has been a longing to discover when, where, and how human beings have lived in respectful, sacred, equitable relationship with each other and the rest of Nature, and what arts, ethics, and practices enabled them to do so and pass such attitudes and behaviors on to the coming generations.   In these profoundly challenging times, characterized by separation, polarization, and the commodification of nearly everything, (and the consequent damage such a culture is wreaking on the life support systems of this world,) the capacity to stay together and work cooperatively as a people is crucial for effective healing and restorative action in all realms. The communal arts of group singing, ritual, and the collective crafting of beauty are primal “technologies” of connection and belonging, and have been the integral bedrock of all viable and regenerative cultures through the deep time of our presence here on Earth. When we take steps to reclaim that heritage, making use of nothing more than what we were born with, (our bodies, our hearts, our voices, our spirits) we can once again experience the bonding recognition that our true wealth is each other and that all flourishing is mutual.  Laurence has also been facilitating and offering community grief tending gatherings throughout North America for about 15 years.  His primary teachers and influences have been Sobonfu and Malidoma Somé, Angeles Arrien, Michael Meade, James Hillman, Francis Weller, Joanna Macy, and Martín Prechtel.  He is an advocate for this work not only for the ways it can bring release and healing for individuals, but also for the ways it can enable a renewed sense of respectful connection and belonging for groups of folks working together for restoration of mutually flourishing communityEpisode Highlights▶ Laurence's journey into grief work▶ The role of singing in grief rituals and why it is so powerful▶ The community and belonging we can find through grief work▶ The primal wound and modern disconnection▶ How we can find hope and healing in a disconnected worldLaurence Cole's Links & Resources▶ Website: http://www.laurencecole.com▶ Communal Grief Retreats with Laurence and Alexandra (ahlay) Blakely:  https://www.healingattheroots.com/communalgriefretreats▶ Grief Tending Mentoring Program: https://sacredgroves.com/intro-grief-tending  Download Beth's free business trainings here: Integrating Psychedelics & Sacred Medicines Into a Transformational Business:https://bethaweinstein.com/psychedelics-in-businessClarity to Clients: Start & Grow a Transformational Coaching, Healing, Spiritual, or Psychedelic Business https://bethaweinstein.com/grow-your-spiritual-business ▶ Beth's Programs & Courses: https://bethaweinstein.com/services▶ Beth on Instagram: http://instagram.com/bethaweinstein▶ Beth Weinstein on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bethw.nychttps://www.facebook.com/BethWeinsteinbiz▶ Join the free Psychedelics & Purpose Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/PsychedelicsandSacredMedicines

Sammy and Kristen start diving into the heart center and contemplate what it means in the realm of dreams. We differentiate some language used for the heart center like image, shame versus guilt, and how that stems from object relations. We share a few of our own personal dreams that could be illustrating heart-centered motions between the dream ego and the ego of waking life. We're excited to expand on all of these topics as the wisdom of our dreams begin to help us through this journey. Resources; Josh Lavine & John Luckovich's course on the Developmental View of the Centers; https://www.theenneagramschool.com/developmental-centers ‘Disgust; the gateway emotion for healing toxic shame' https://youtu.be/gKi7_rzlbBs?si=gTSm15gv2NPGHC8k ‘Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma' by Peter Levine ‘Thought of the Heart' essay by James Hillman

A dvar Torah on parashat Acharei Mot by Agnes Borinsky. With Aaron, grief, James Hillman, imitation, blood and gay sex.

Sammy and Kristen continue the previous conversation by sharing their dreams that they incubated to see how the body center might be operating in their unconscious. They asked their unconscious; ‘What am I asking another to hold?' and they received answers which they begin to break apart and understand. These dreams can show a way in which listeners can see and listen to the body center within the realm of their own dreams and processes or experiences of life.  Resources; James Hillman's ‘Senex and Puer' lectures

Sign up to my WORD+mage ecourse or the Discovering Your Inner Symbols WORD+image MasterclassI am joined by Rev. Dr. Sushmita Mukherjee, writer, artist, educator and spiritual companion in the interspiritual tradition. She is an ordained interfaith minister as well as an Associate Professor in a large medical college in New York City. Her vocation straddles cutting edge biomedical research technology, and a spirituality imbued with magic and wonder.· Our conversation started in the dark woods of the psyche and her quote I used in my new book, Crow Moon.· We talked about darkness - the problems with how we talk about darkness within Western thought and the binary…and how we can move beyond this.· We discuss Individuation – a mainstay of Jungian thought – why it's problematic and why it's necessary.· Learning to live beyond our rational minds. We discover many shared guide to this including Mary Oliver, Jung, Krista Tippet and John O'Donohue.· Find out about the via creativa and how she now teaches about the shadow.· She speaks about Hospicing Modernity – an approach to the question: What comes next for our culture?· How she discovered the beauty of our biology.· Nature and privilege, and finding the wild in the heart of urban spaces.More About Sushmita:Her psyche thrives at the interface of image, imagination and creative innovation. Sushmita's spiritual work draws on Eastern and Western myths, Earth-based traditions, Taoism, Sufism, and Perennial Philosophy. Her work is deeply influenced by the teachings of Carl Jung and James Hillman. Some of her interests include myths, dreams, poetry and art, including Jungian-influenced Dreamwork, SoulCollage® and Chakradance. Sushmita is deeply committed to Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging in all fields of engagement.Sushmita's website: on-seeing.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On the 66th episode of the What is a Good Life? podcast, I am delighted to introduce our guest, Thomas Moore. Thomas is the author of the #1 New York Times Best Seller, Care of the Soul. Since then, he has written thirty books on matters of soul and spirit. His most recent book is The Eloquence of Silence. He lectures in many parts of the world and is also a psychotherapist influenced mainly by C. G. Jung and James Hillman, his close friend for four decades. He has won many awards, including an honorary doctorate from Lesley University and the 2003 Humanitarian Award from Einstein Medical School.In this episode, Thomas shares his journey from spending 13 years studying to be a priest, to being a lecturer and professor before becoming a psychotherapist and a prolific and bestselling author. At each moment he made a significant life change, he felt fully led by his daemon (an inner, guiding spirit or urge) to help him make considerable decisions with unwavering conviction. Throughout this conversation, Thomas shares many important insights and anecdotes for living a more connected and aligned life with our inner wisdom and soul.There is so much to glean from this episode regarding how we live our lives, how we make significant decisions, embrace pivotal moments, and perhaps it suggests a life philosophy that could steer you away from trying to figure out every conceivable scenario before committing to your next major change.Subscribe for weekly episodes, every Tuesday, and check out my YouTube channel (link below) for clips and shorts.For further content and information check out the following:- Thomas' latest book: The Eloquence of Silence- Thomas' Website: https://www.thomasmooresoul.com/- For the podcast's YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@whatisagoodlife/videos- My newsletter: https://www.whatisagood.life/- My LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mccartney-14b0161b4/Contact me at mark@whatisagood.life to book a free consultation (30 minutes) for one-on-one coaching programs, leadership coaching programs to build trust and connection amongst executive teams or silent retreats for executive teams.Running Order:02:37 Podcast begins04:27 Responding to big urges and opportunities 09:50 A feeling of certainty beyond our logic14:52 Practicing engagement with our daemon19:57 Seeing life more poetically25:42 Thomas' friendship with Hillman28:39 Leaving life as a lecturer32:02 Starting life as a therapist and writer35:05 Experiencing the success of Care of the Soul38:57 The influence of Samuel Beckett and silence43:47 The role of image in a life of soul48:47 Humour and not holding it all too tightly53:02 The lack of emptiness in our society58:13 What is a good life for Thomas?

Buy the books mentioned in the discussion: The English Heretic Collection: Ritual Histories, Magickal Geography: https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-english-heretic-collection-ritual-histories-magickal-geography/The Astral Geographic: The Watkins Guide to the Occult World: https://watkinspublishing.com/books/the-astral-geographic-the-watkins-guide-to-the-occult-world/: Anti-Oculus: A Philosophy of Escape: https://repeaterbooks.com/product/anti-oculus-a-philosophy-of-escape/Craig from Acid Horizon sits down with fellow Repeater author Andy Sharp to discuss various political implications of James Hillman's theory of dreams, namely the how "the underworld" of our dreams resists the dictates of life under capitalism. Also featured in the discussion is Mark Fisher's 'acid communism' and the life and work of the mysterious alchemist Fulcanelli.Support the showSupport the podcast:https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/Linktree: https://linktr.ee/acidhorizonAcid Horizon on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/acidhorizonpodcastZer0 Books and Repeater Media Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/zer0repeaterMerch: http://www.crit-drip.comOrder 'Anti-Oculus: A Philosophy of Escape': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/anti-oculus-a-philosophy-of-escape/Order 'The Philosopher's Tarot': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-philosophers-tarot/Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/169wvvhiHappy Hour at Hippel's (Adam's blog): https://happyhourathippels.wordpress.com​Revolting Bodies (Will's Blog): https://revoltingbodies.com​Split Infinities (Craig's Substack): https://splitinfinities.substack.com/​Music: https://sereptie.bandcamp.com/ and https://thecominginsurrection.bandcamp.com/

Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., has devoted his life to understanding the profound wisdom and healing power that exists within each of us. Through our dreams and imagination, we are able to access limitless creativity and innovation, improved relationships, and ultimately our human potential.In The Imagination Matrix: How To Access the Greatest Power You Have for Creativity, Connection, and Purpose Aizenstat expands upon his world-renowned Dream Tending method to present a step-by-step process for unlocking your creative potential. Through guided exercises, meditative practices, dreamwork, and more, you'll discover how to dismantle the obstacles and mental habits that limit your ingenuity and problem-solving capacities—and reawaken your access to the “field of consciousness that exists below, betwixt, and between the surface of everyday experience” that Aizenstat calls “deep imagination.” Aizenstat's method teaches us to align ourselves with the fundamental source of creativity—so even when we feel overwhelmed as individuals, we can allow a greater intelligence to animate and guide us. In doing so, we become more purposeful, resilient, and connected—and able to be the agents of change that our world needs. The founder of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia.For more, visit: https://dreamtending.com/ Support the show Contact me at: postcardstotheuniverse@gmail.com Shout out and follow on IG - @postcardstotheuniverse https://linktr.ee/postcardstotheuniverse Thank you and keep listening for more great shows!

"Even to think that we're separated from nature is somehow a thought thinking disorder. You can't be separated from nature." These are the words of the great Jungian psychologist James Hillman. Listen to this episode to hear more about how we're going crazy. Referenced video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAtDaO8Qdw

This espresso shot solo episode is an excerpt from my recent Masterclass: 2024: Your Breakthrough Year. In this episode, I explore the transformative power of initiations, guided by insights from Francis Weller and James Hillman. I talk about the three parts of initiation: severance from the world you once knew, radical alteration to your sense of identity, and inability to go back to the world you knew. I also discuss the power of community during these personal transformations, the importance of prioritizing our instincts as well as alchemizing our knowledge into action. This episode is an invitation to align our actions and remember that true transformation comes from within. Get the full recording at markgroves.com/2024 —Full Masterclass recording: https://mark-groves.mykajabi.com/Masterclass-2024-sign-up —Follow me on Instagram - @createthelove: https://www.instagram.com/createthelove —Subscribe to my Newsletter: https://mark-groves.mykajabi.com/newsletter —Subscribe to my Substack: https://markgroves.substack.com —Follow me on Facebook - @createthelove: https://www.facebook.com/createthelove —Get My New Book! Liberated Love - Release Codependent Patterns and Create the Love You Desire: https://a.co/d/91ElXvN If you want to dive deeper into my content, search through every episode, find specific topics I've covered, and ask me questions, go to my Dexa page: https://dexa.ai/markgroves Themes: Authenticity, Belonging, Breakups, Relationships, Spirituality, Boundaries, Self-Worth, Self-Love, Codependency, Infidelity, Dating, Transformation, Career, Mental Health, Purpose, Initiations, Community 0:00:00 Intro 0:00:33 Initiations and its Three Parts 0:01:58 Identity Shift: Embracing the Unknown 0:02:35 A Radical Alteration: Severance from the Familiar World 0:03:12 The Distractions from Self 0:03:50 The Screen Report and Lack of Time for Personal Growth 0:04:19 The Power of Community 0:06:09 Trusting Your Instincts and Ignoring Outside Opinions 0:06:37 Pursuing Your Calling as an Imperative 0:07:26 Being Yourself in Relationships 0:09:25 Finding Inner Strength Again 0:10:24 Where You're Not Liberated 0:10:41 The Mind's Limitations in Understanding Reality 0:11:31 Knowledge vs. Action: The Importance of Living in Integrity Drop us a note at podcast@markgroves.com for sponsor product support, questions, comments, guest suggestions, or just to say hello! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

STEPHEN AIZENSTAT, Ph.D., is the founder of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imaginal Arts and Sciences. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. For more, visit dreamtending.com Sign up for 10% off of Shrink Rap Radio CE credits at the Zur Institute

Bonnie Jo Campbell, known as the “master of rural noir,” is the author of eight books. Her story collection, American Salvage, was a finalist for the 2009 National Book Award and National Book Critics Circle Award in Fiction. Her 2011 novel, Once Upon a River, was made into a film in 2020. In this episode, Bonnie chats with Marrie Stone about her highly anticipated novel The Waters, which comes out next week. It's Bonnie's first novel in over a decade and it's already receiving rave reviews. The Waters follows three generations of women in the swamplands of Michigan. Herbalist Hermine “Herself” Zook is the matriarch and the area's healer, homeopath, or witch, depending on the way the town looks at her. Meet Hermine (played by Bonnie's mother) here. Bonnie talks about the architecture of this novel, and how she struggled to find something beyond the traditional three-act structure. She shares her discovery of Sharon Blackie, and the realization that structure can take different forms. The conversation also references Jane Alison's Meander, Spiral, Explode. They talk about character development and what makes characters unique, referencing both Jungian psychotherapists Robert A. Johnson and James Hillman (author of The Soul's Code). Bonnie also discusses fairy tales in literary fiction, how to talk about contemporary and divisive issues like abortion and gun control in accessible ways, how to make the most of your settings, breathing life into mysterious characters, her revision process and much more. She also shares additional advice to writers (particularly short story writers) here. For more information on Writers on Writing and extra writing perks, visit our Patreon page. To listen to past interviews, visit our website. We're also excited to announce the opening of our new bookstore on bookshop.org. We've stocked it with titles from our guests, as well as some of our own personal favorites. By purchasing through the store, you'll support both independent bookstores and our show. New titles will be added all the time (it's a work in progress). Finally, on Spotify you can listen to an album's worth of typewriter music like what you hear on the show. Look for the artist, Just My Type. Email the show at writersonwritingpodcast@gmail.com. We love to hear from our listeners. (Recorded on December 27, 2023) Host: Barbara DeMarco-Barrett Host: Marrie Stone Music and sound editing: Travis Barrett (Stream his music on Spotify, Apple Music, Etc.)

Katherine Everitt joins Adam and Craig to celebrate the brilliance, creativity, and uniqueness of Bachelard's phenomenology of the imagination. We explore the nuances of Bachelard's meditations on the image and the imagination with references to Kant, Hegel, Jung, Deleuze, and James Hillman.Support the showSupport the podcast:https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/Linktree: https://linktr.ee/acidhorizonAcid Horizon on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/acidhorizonpodcastZer0 Books and Repeater Media Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/zer0repeaterMerch: http://www.crit-drip.comOrder 'Anti-Oculus: A Philosophy of Escape': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/anti-oculus-a-philosophy-of-escape/Order 'The Philosopher's Tarot': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-philosophers-tarot/Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/169wvvhiHappy Hour at Hippel's (Adam's blog): https://happyhourathippels.wordpress.com​Revolting Bodies (Will's Blog): https://revoltingbodies.com​Split Infinities (Craig's Substack): https://splitinfinities.substack.com/​Music: https://sereptie.bandcamp.com/ and https://thecominginsurrection.bandcamp.com/

For more information about alchemy, we do not recommend looking to the alchemists. Because who knows what they were talking about?! Please check out Jeffrey Raff's "Jung and the Alchemical Imagination," or James Hillman's "The Alchemy of Psychology," which is available in audio form on Spotify.  If you wanna feel REALLY alchemized, head to http://patreon.com/thefundamentalists. It is one of the few Patreons where you get less for more.  **The Fundamentalists** is available here: iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamentalists/id1346820645 Google Play: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWZ1bmRhbWVudGFsaXN0cy9mZWVkLnhtbA?sa=X&ved=0CAMQ4aUDahgKEwiQjIKs963vAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQ4AE Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/68aaf57c-97d1-4ab2-9e73-02bc5884217b/The-Fundamentalists Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1GeviZEtqrzMtjO57S31fk?si=KpJ8282uSB6vWunicWpbkA Podbean: https://thefundamentalists.podbean.com iHeartRadio: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-the-fundamentalists-31087767/ PlayerFM: https://player.fm/series/the-fundamentalists-2360037 Listen Notes: https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fundamentalists-elliott-morgan-and-S9xk4N21VLT/ Thank you to everyone who makes this podcast possible. Feel free to leave us your OWN review over at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamentalists/id1346820645 You know how many alchemists died because they blew themselves up? It's higher than zero, I'll tell ya that. 

Interview begins @ 4:00 In this episode of "The Sacred Speaks," embark on an exploratory journey with Dr. Stephen Aizenstat, diving into the depths of the inner self. Our dialogue begins with the concept of the inner journey, ignited by curiosity, as seen through the lens of Dr. Aizenstat. A masterful storyteller, he intertwines compelling narratives from both his personal and professional realms, offering a glimpse into his distinctive worldview. Our conversation reveals the notion of 'genius' residing in each individual, transcending the bounds of the extraordinary. Dr. Aizenstat shares enlightening stories that demonstrate how engaging with our imagination can propel us beyond mere rationality, leading us into a life imbued with soulfulness and fulfillment. We confront the nature of resistance, both within ourselves and in others, discussing how a nondefensive, curious approach can pave the way for deeper understanding and personal growth. Dr. Aizenstat's methodology, marked by compassion and openness, provides a novel perspective on personal evolution. As we delve further, we examine the influence of depth psychology on Dr. Aizenstat's work, especially his interaction with inner figures and the transformative power of genuine curiosity. He champions a co-creative journey with these inner entities, illustrating how exploration and engagement can alleviate discomfort and enrich our inner world. A memorable segment of our discussion highlights Dr. Aizenstat's encounter with Joseph Campbell at Esalen, marking the beginning of a significant friendship. He recounts a fascinating story about Campbell's meeting with George Lucas, a pivotal moment that shaped the narrative of Star Wars, exemplifying the exploration of shadow and archetypes. Additionally, we explore the personification of emotions and the inner world, a central element of Dr. Aizenstat's approach. The episode culminates with an insightful discussion on the four quadrants of his Creative Matrix: Earth, Mind, Machine, and Universe, shedding light on the interplay of these elements in our lives. https://dreamtending.com Bio: Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder and Chancellor Emeritus of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology and has devoted his life to understanding the profound wisdom and healing power that exist within each of us and has helped thousands of students, individuals, businesses, and organizations through the techniques revealed in The Imagination Matrix. His work centers on the insight that, through our dreams and imagination, we can access limitless creativity, innovation, improved relationships, and, ultimately, our human potential. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Host Michael Taft talks with “Boss Jungian of Planet Earth” Stephen Aizenstat about diving into the depths of our authentic creativity, finding purpose in the imaginal, engaging "an imagination that opens from the inside out," the perils and promise of AI with regards to the human imagination, and asks the question: is working with the imagination simply a narcissistic bourgeois indulgence in this time of unprecedented worldwide existential peril, or might the imaginal actually be a source of our salvation?Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder of Pacifica Graduate Institute, and the Academy of Imaginal Arts and Sciences. He is a world renowned Professor of Depth Psychology, an imagination specialist and has collaborated with many notable masters in the field of depth psychology including Joseph Campbell, James Hillman, Marion Woodman, and Robert Johnson.Dr. Aizenstat's DreamTending siteYou can support the creation of future episodes of this podcast by contributing through Patreon.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.