Podcast appearances and mentions of James Hillman

Before I jump back into All the Pretty Horses, I wanted to offer a shorter reflection on a line I recently found from Cormac McCarthy's unpublished screenplay Of Whales and Men: “I believe that we are arks of the covenant… and our true nature is longing.”In this episode, I explore McCarthy's vision of longing alongside psychoanalysis, James Hillman's notion of pothos, and Augustine's famous line that our hearts are restless until they rest in God. But maybe God is not simply where restlessness ends. Maybe God is the restlessness at the core of our being.This is a meditation on desire, nostalgia, melancholy, sacred ache, and why longing may not be something to cure, but something to honor.

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Genie-us Making: Conducting Consciousness for Our Emerging Genus of Humanity What if the ancient stories of genies were never really about magic lamps and granting wishes? What if they were symbolic invitations to awaken something within us? In this episode of Kaleidoscope for Be~coming, Celeste Emelia Mattingly explores the surprising intersection of mythology, psychology, consciousness studies, synchronicity, and human potential. Through the remarkable story of a mysterious genie pendant, listeners are invited into a deeper exploration of meaning, intention, imagination, and the possibility that consciousness may participate in shaping our experience of reality. Drawing upon the work of Carl Jung, James Hillman, Dean Radin, and William Tiller, Celeste introduces the concept of Conducting Consciousness—a practical and inspiring framework for engaging life with greater awareness, creativity, and purpose. Join us as we explore: The hidden wisdom within genie mythologySynchronicity, symbols, and meaningful coincidenceWhy attention, intention, and imagination matterThe difference between wishing and participatingHow genius may be emerging through the human genus itself The ancient dream of the genie may have been pointing toward something far greater than wish fulfillment. It may have been pointing toward us.

In this episode, I explore Heraclitus through James Hillman's beautiful foreword to Heraclitus' Fragments, especially the idea that the psyche is not something fixed, stable, or easily explained, but something always in motion, always in tension, always touched by contradiction.Heraclitus gives us a way to think about psychotherapy beyond neat explanations and rigid identities. The self is not a finished object. It is a river. It is fire. It is the strange truth that “I am as I am not.”I also bring in Borges' short story “The Other” as a way of thinking about the divided self across time—the younger self, the older self, the wounded self, the becoming self—all meeting beside the river without ever fully resolving into one simple identity.This episode is about therapy as a place where contradiction can be held, where symptoms can be listened to as signs, where dreams and fragments matter, and where change is not just something we seek, but something we already are.

Once upon a time not so very long ago, artificial intelligence (AI) was a product of speculative science fiction, especially in films from Metropolis to Blade Runner.Today, AI has so infiltrated our daily lives, the thought of not having access to Google or other AI-driven apps on our mobile phones and computers scares the crap out of a lot of people. Paul continues his investigation into AI with able assistance from author, Silicon Valley survivor and depth psychologist Elizabeth Nelson who explores the wide gulf between human and machine this week on Spirit Gym.Check out Elizabeth's essays and individual coaching groups, watch her video presentations and read her essays on her website.Timestamps7:54 Defining technology and machines.12:05 Artificial intelligence, large language models (LLMs) or large language machines?19:12 “Technology is not neutral.”23:48 Confusing data and information with real knowledge.29:50 The intrusion of machine language into our humanity.37:45 The danger of LLMs emulating humans.51:23 Exploring the gulf between human and cyborg/machine in books and films like Blade Runner.57:23 When describing what AI does, calling it making crap up or AI slop is better than hallucinating.1:08:26 Are we turning an it like AI into a being?1:14:15 The irony of some people celebrating the end times while others turn to transhumanism.1:38:18 Can you leave your tech toys at home for a week without feeling anxiety?1:49:48 Why is it so important for humanity to understand very clearly what reality is?ResourcesDepth Psychology, Myth and Artificial Intelligence: Soul and the Machine, edited by Jason Batt and Jonathan EricksonThe Art of Jungian Couples Therapy: An Introduction by Elizabeth Nelson and Anthony DelmedicoThe Art of Inquiry: A Depth Psychology Perspective by Elizabeth Nelson and Joseph CoppinPsyche's Knife: Archetypal Explorations of Love and Power by Elizabeth NelsonJournal of Jungian Scholarly StudiesUnderstanding Media: The Extension of Man by Marshall McLuhan and Lewis Lapham Elizabeth's Psyche, Soma, Cyborg course at the Pacifica Graduate InstituteThe Ship of Theseus (Theseus's Paradox)Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Philip K. DickExteroceptionElysiumThe work of James Hillman and Edward EdingerPaul's podcast conversation with B. EarlDNA: Pirates of the Sacred Spiral by Leonard HorowitzFrankenstein: Or the Modern Prometheus by Mary ShelleyThe Forgotten Truth: The Common Vision of the World's Religions by Huston SmithThe Social Dilemma on NetflixElizabeth's presentation during the recent Soul and the Machine webinar on the International Society of Mythology websiteFind more resources for this episode on our website.Music Credit: Meet Your Heroes (444Hz), Composed, mixed, mastered and produced by Michael RB Schwartz of Brave Bear MusicThanks to our awesome sponsors:PaleovalleyBIOptimizers US and BIOptimizers UK PAUL15Organifi CHEK20Wild PasturesPique LifeCHEK InstituteWe may earn commissions from qualifying purchases using affiliate links.

In this episode, I spend time with New Perspectives on Henry Corbin, edited by Hadi Fakhoury, and reflect on why Corbin still feels so strangely alive right now.Corbin is difficult to place. He moves through Islamic philosophy, Suhrawardi, Shi'ism, Heidegger, Neoplatonism, angelology, psychoanalysis, esotericism, and the imaginal world, but what keeps pulling me in is his refusal to reduce spiritual reality to dogma, psychology, politics, or fantasy. He gives us a way to think about imagination not as escape, but as a form of perception.I also reflect on some of the chapters I'm most excited by, including Charles Stang on Corbin and Neoplatonism, Joan Copjec on Corbin, Lacan, and Kiarostami, Matthew Dillon on James Hillman's democratization of Corbin's imaginal thinking, and Wouter Hanegraaff's haunting portrait of Corbin's Freemasonry, neo-Templar spirituality, and personal longing for a hidden community of the spirit.This is less a summary of the whole book and more an invitation into Corbin as a provocation: What kind of world do we think we are living in? What kind of knowing have we allowed ourselves to trust? And does the soul still have access to images strong enough to guide it?

We discuss why INTPs are often misunderstood for their critical tone, as we explore how their truth-seeking communication style can be mistaken for critique or criticism by others.☆Check out what I'm up to!☆Hi there! I'm Joyce, a certified MBTI® Master Practitioner, Enneagram Coach, Jungian Typology Expert, Master NLP Practitioner, and Gallup® CliftonStrengths Coach.WONDERING WHICH ONE OF THE 16 PERSONALITY TYPES YOU ARE?Book a session to get my take on your type. I'd love to help guide you on your type-discovery journey!Here is my scheduling link to arrange a time with me:https://calendly.com/joycemengcoachingI charge $85 for a typing session. Another colleague of mine certified by Personality Hacker will work alongside me and we will give you our independent assessments of you.Want to go deeper? For $97, you can purchase a typing session with 1 hour of additional coaching with me.Or maybe you know your personality type already and are seeking some type-based coaching? As a trained coach, I can help you apply type concepts to all areas of your life for lasting change. The coaching session rate is $75 per hour for a bundle of 3. :)By purchasing a session, you will help support the Type Talks channel and gain personalized mentorship and guidance from an experienced industry expert with over 12 years of experience.If you'd like to get in touch, you can email me at joycemeng22@gmail.comFor those of you who are interested, I am also launching a website and releasing a typology book next year! Here's a link to my coaching website if you'd like to learn more about me and the services I offer: https://www.joycemengcoaching.com/Connect with me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JoyceMeng22Like the show? Buy me a coffee! (it means the world to me): https://ko-fi.com/joycemengShow your support by becoming a monthly patron! https://ko-fi.com/joycemeng/tiersWant to know when the next Type Talks video is premiering? Join our Discord community for the latest updates! (Inactive now, looking for moderators) https://discord.gg/ksHb7fmMcm☆Check out these resources!☆James Hillman's essay on the inferior function is in the book "Lectures on Jung's Typology": https://www.amazon.com/Lectures-Jungs-Typology-Marie-Louise-Franz/dp/0882140957#INTP #16types #personalitytypes #infj #communication

What if the source of your best writing isn't something you control — but something you learn to collaborate with? How can ancient ideas about the muse, the daimon, and creative genius transform the way you approach your work? And what might happen if you stopped fighting the silence and let it become your greatest creative ally? With Matt Cardin, author of Writing at the Wellspring. In the intro, thoughts on bookstores and Toppings; 20 ways authors can signal humanity and build reader trust [Wish I'd Known Then]; Learning from Silence – Pico Iyer; ProWritingAid spring sale; Bones of the Deep – J.F. Penn. Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital.com to get started. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Matt Cardin is the multi-award-nominated author of eight books at the convergence of horror, religion, and creativity. His latest book is Writing at the Wellspring: Tapping the Source of Your Inner Genius, which is fantastic. I actually blurbed it as follows: “A guide for writers who welcome the dark and hunger for meaning. . . . If the page is a threshold, this book will show you how to cross.” You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes How Matt balances a full-time academic career with his creative writing life The ancient concept of the genius, the muse, and the daimon, and why creativity is about collaboration with something beyond yourself Why the silences that come into our creative lives, including writer's block and inertia, might actually be gifts rather than obstacles The stages of the creative process Living into the dark, and embracing uncertainty How Substack and blogging can organically grow into books You can find Matt at MattCardin.com or www.livingdark.net. Transcript of the interview with Matt Cardin Joanna: Matt Cardin is the multi-award-nominated author of eight books at the convergence of horror, religion, and creativity. His latest book is Writing at the Wellspring: Tapping the Source of Your Inner Genius, which is fantastic. I actually blurbed it as follows: “A guide for writers who welcome the dark and hunger for meaning. . . . If the page is a threshold, this book will show you how to cross.” It is a great book. So welcome to the show, Matt. Matt: Well, thank you, Jo. It's really a pleasure to be here, especially since, as you and I were briefly acknowledging before we started recording, we have overlapping interests to a great degree. So it's really great to make official contact with you. Joanna: Indeed. So, first up, before we get into the book itself— Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing. Matt: Well, I'm one of those people whose story is probably typical in some ways, in that I really wanted to do it from the time I was a child. My father was a great writer, although he was an attorney. He wasn't a professional writer. Something about books and reading when I was a child really seriously enchanted me. I was very frustrated when I was so young—and I vividly remember this—that I couldn't read, because I loved the books that were read to me. I craved being able to read them for myself. So as soon as I gained that ability in school, it was off to the races, so to speak, and for some reason, a desire to tell stories myself came along with that. Being a “writer” was one of the earliest life desires, job or career desires, that I expressed. I was one of those young people really into fantasy, horror, and science fiction. So I was reading a lot of it and trying to emulate it and write a lot of it. There was a cinematic component—I was a movie fanatic as well. I won a local Authors' Guild short story writing contest when I was a senior in high school and began trying to write stories seriously in college. Then my interest in horror and religion became dominant over time, and that's what I ended up writing about. Joanna: Has your interest turned into paid work? That's the other thing, because there's an interest and then there's making writing more of your income and your business. Matt: Right. Well, actually, although I have made and do make money from my writing, it has always, always, always remained on the side. My main career, as far as my moneymaking life, first started off in video and media production, which is formally what I got my undergraduate college degree in. Then I switched into education. I taught high school for some years, and then now for the past, good Lord, 18 years, I have been in higher education. First as English faculty who also taught some religion courses, and then now for the past several years in the administration. I'm Vice President of Academic Affairs at a college. My writing has been something that I pursued as an avocation. As far as earning money from it, that didn't happen even with my first publication, which happened on the internet in 1998, I believe, with a horror story titled “Teeth.” It was just free—I didn't get paid. That led to paid publication of that story three or four years later, when it appeared as my very first print publication in a Lovecraftian horror anthology from Del Rey titled The Children of Cthulhu. It appeared as the final story, and that was the first time I had received a paycheck. It was a professional per-word rate. Since then I've had several books published and more stories and essays and that kind of thing. I've had income sometimes from writing and sometimes I haven't. My first book came out of that story. I attended the World Horror Convention in 2001, actually before that Lovecraftian anthology was published, but it had been placed. At the World Horror Convention, which was in Seattle that year, I met one of the two editors of that book, and that led to me having my first short story collection, Divinations of the Deep, which was not for much money, but it attracted a lot of good attention and some good reviews. So it's been like that all along. I mean, I've made a couple of runs at saying I would love to just be an author, as it were, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards for me. And honestly, I'm glad it's not. I have made the most money from some academic editing projects that I've done. I created and edited a two-volume encyclopedia of the history of horror literature, for instance, for a big academic publisher. Those are work-for-hire projects that I get paid for. Making money on my own creative vision and my own creative work has been intermittent. It really has proven over time that not having my primary creative, spiritual, and philosophical drive hooked to what I earn my bread by has been a blessing. I don't want to take this thing I love and make it be how I have to grind to earn my money. I want to keep it in a protected space. That has been spontaneously what's happened with my writing career. Joanna: Yes. I think as you say, there are a lot of benefits of that, especially where you are writing at this convergence of horror, religion, and creativity. Your writing is very deep. I would say it's on the edge of academic. I don't want to say it's completely academic, because a lot of people will find that difficult. But I think Writing at the Wellspring goes very deep while still being open to non-academic readers. As you say, I think if you had wanted to make a living with your books, you would've had to have gone in at a lighter level, perhaps. Do you think that makes sense? Matt: Yes, I know what you mean. I want to specify, I know that neither you nor I are saying anything about this as any kind of criticism or condescension to anyone who does make their living as a writer. I mean, I believe you do. Joanna: Yes, exactly. Matt: And that's fine. There really are people who have had significant commercial success from books or other things they've written that don't appear to be making huge concessions to being commercial. You can make a living as a writer, I think, and really follow your muse and not feel like you have to pander or cater or cheapen it. Then there are people who have perfectly happily decided to commercialise their work and tune it in whatever way is currently popular. That's fine. Every writer, every creative person should do what is right for him or her, in my opinion. In my particular case, I think what you said is right. I do think that I might have needed to change some things, to back off, to word them differently. Whenever I've tried to exert deliberate control like that, it just turns out that it's not something that my creative spirit wants to do. I don't really feel like I'm in contact with the work anymore. I'm fine with that. I don't think I'm doing a sweet lemons type thing. It really is the way it just needs to be. If it ever proves that me doing it strictly the way I want to do it, going however deep I want regardless of trying to appeal to a paying readership—if it turns out that at some point aligns with boatloads of money coming in, that's fine. That's perfectly fine. I'd be open to that. Joanna: Yes. Matt: I would be open to that. Joanna: You mentioned muse there, and with Writing at the Wellspring, the subtitle is “Tapping the Source of Your Inner Genius.” So I think this is a good place to talk about it. As you mentioned, you are leaning into your muse and your inner genius, and you use other terms—daemon or daimon. I think sometimes people find the word “genius” particularly very difficult because it has the connotation of brilliance in some form. So how can people think about this? How can we lean into this [genius] side of ourselves? Matt: Honestly, one thing that I would suggest people do is I would refer them to the TED Talk that Elizabeth Gilbert gave some years ago—was it 2009, 2010, 2011? It's one of the more popular TED Talks. Elizabeth Gilbert spoke about. I think it's sometimes given the title “Your Elusive Creative Genius” or something like that. Her whole talk is about the way in her own creative life, and as she recommends to others, it has been very important for her to seize on the older model that we're talking about. The most clear articulation of it is that it used to be the case—and we're talking about in ancient Western history, back to the Romans and even earlier to the Greeks—that genius was not something that you identified a person as being. It was something that a person had. And I would also say importantly, maybe had them too. In ancient Roman culture surrounding art and poetry and that kind of thing, the genius was the spirit that might, say, live in an artist's studio and would provide the same service to that artist as the Greek muses provided to someone who was writing epic poetry or history or something like that. That understanding of it has continued in various ways down through history. But there was a fateful transition as Western culture went through what we commonly call the Enlightenment and the Renaissance as well. This was where the term “genius,” while it didn't lose all those connotations of being an inspiring spirit—something that a person both has and maybe has hold of them—did become internalised to the point where we speak of people as being geniuses., which is exactly what you're talking about. I agree, some people listening to this probably have some reservations about this. They don't want to call themselves a genius because we tend to mean that's a super brilliant person, some kind of prodigy who is possessed of amazing artistic, creative, or intellectual skills. Again, that is the result of a cultural, philosophical, psychological, historical transition that occurred several centuries ago. And you still see the older meaning of it being attached sometimes. You think of people who we call geniuses being touched by something. Well, the older version—where you think of the genius, which in the way I use it in this book and also in my first book on creativity, A Course in Demonic Creativity—the genius is equivalent to the muse, which is equivalent to that other figure that you mentioned, the daemon or the daimon. It refers to a separate—what seems for all the world to be a separate—centre of intelligence or entity or influence. The thing that gives you both your creative drive and also your ideas, and serves as the source of what comes to you naturally to write. It's more than just ideas. When you talk about the ancient Greek daimon, there was a whole well-developed tradition of that in ancient Greek philosophy and religion. A daimon was, in one famous sense, a spirit that you were born with, that the gods had given you. It was like your double, your higher self. It was the thing that represented your character, your interests, the blueprint and the outline that your life was supposed to follow. There are great books written about that. There's a book by the psychologist James Hillman titled The Soul's Code. A lot of people have read it. It lays out the daimon theory and gives it application to modern instances. The idea is that everybody has a genius or has a muse or has a daimon. For writers, my recommendation is to say, whether you believe it or not, whether you take it as a metaphor—which is fine—or whether you want to get somewhat mystical and delve into the idea that maybe there's really a spirit or something, it doesn't matter. Productively, with practical, measurable results, you can learn to relate to your creative impulse as if you are collaborating internally with someone else. It's the centre of why you're interested in writing what you want to write, why you want to write the way you want to write, and even the types of things that unfold in the course of your career—both your creative career and the rest of your life, in the mould of the ancient daimon. I have found that to be a vein of great power and meaning in my own life. I do it exactly the way I'm describing. I don't actually believe it, but I don't disbelieve it. I find that in experience, it really doesn't matter. It works and it may as well be true. Joanna: I mean, obviously the book has a whole load of ways we can tap into that, but I did like that you talk about stillness and silence, because I feel like that is actually increasingly difficult as authors. Obviously it's noisy online and we're meant to be doing things like social media or interacting with people online. And then the world is just noisy. The news is noisy. There's lots of things. How can we use this idea of stillness and silence? Also, any other ways we can practically tap into this side? Matt: Sure. One thing that wanted to say itself in this book was some things I had been thinking and feeling about silence for a long time. As you say, it can be difficult these days to find what feels like the silence that we need to even get our work done. We're talking about the muse or the genius. How can we even hear it when it seems like the clamour of all the pulls that we have on our outward attention has become truly a cacophony? We have opted for this in many ways through our engagement with social media or other things, but in other ways seems like it's been thrust upon us. What I want to point out, that has been of extreme importance to me, is that many silences come into our lives as creatives that we resist. It's not just that we can't find the silence and the space that we feel like we need so as not to drown out our creativity. It's that we have unwanted silences come in, like writer's block. Or even if it doesn't feel like a block, just inertia. Just stasis. I don't know about you, but I have many, many times found myself grappling with what, for all the world, feels like a totally natural, organic sense of wanting to slip into complete inertia, just total stillness. And that feels like it has been in conflict with my creative drive. It's like I have this residual desire and also a sense of duty that I really should be writing. Maybe I have an idea in mind and I'm just not working on it. Or maybe I'm in the middle of a project and I feel like I'm abandoning it. Or maybe nothing's coming up, but I feel like it should be. I'm pushing myself, but there's a division in me where I also just want to leave it alone. Whether that means actually just sitting there silently at my writing table or in meditation, or maybe just going about regular daily life and forgetting about trying to fulfil this creative calling. I really think there's a vein of gold to be tapped in the silences that come to all of us. Because as I said, that can be in the middle of daily activity. We have this kind of franticness, some of us, about our creativity. We get wrapped up in it. We feel bound to it. The thing that so much of the time we want to think is a gift—we're proud of it, we cherish it, we like our writing—also becomes a burden. This fantasy of just chucking it all, of just saying, “I would love to be free of it. It's like something that's weighing me down. I'm sorry that I roped myself into it. I would love to just sink into complete silence.” This sort of meditative thing, or just muteness—hey, that is valid to hear. That's valid to heed when it comes up. I mean, sometimes we have gotten ourselves into situations where we have external responsibilities and deadlines, and it's important to try and honour those and not be a bad person on the level of just fulfilling practical obligations. It's also important to recognise you've got silence offering itself to you in all kinds of ways. The more important silence is paradoxically the one that we so often resist if we're creative people and feel like we have to be making. The more important silence is not whether or not your outward conditions seem like they're a clamour and they're chaotic and they're distracting and they're full of pressure. It's that inner silence. So I recommend paying attention to when it comes up. And for practical ways—they are endless. Take advantage of early mornings. A lot of people have found great value in getting up earlier than they are used to and making a practice of that, and either just meditating or free writing. Maybe using, for example, Julia Cameron's famous practice of morning pages, which has been valuable to me sometimes. Or doing things like—as I've said about the muse and the genius and the daimon—personify your unconscious mind and maybe write down a dialogue between yourself and your creative spirit, whether about your current project or just about your life and your creativity as a whole. There are various tricks to get in touch with this unconscious part of you, and I really am convinced out of practical personal experience that it's not necessary to have outer silence and outer spaciousness when you can find it within yourself. You can find it through some of these exercises for getting in alignment with what your creativity wants to do. You can get in touch with it if you're paying attention to what you might not recognise as a gift—offering it to yourself. If things go quiet and you think, “Oh no, I should be doing something”—why not let that be a place where things can germinate? Why not let that be the silence that you might not be able to find on the outside? Joanna: Yes, and I'm feeling guilty here because of course we are producing a podcast episode for people to listen to. I find personally that one of the places I can find silence is when I walk. It's not obviously silent outside, but I am definitely guilty of always listening to podcasts, often at very fast speed as well. Sometimes when I go for a walk, I just deliberately do not listen to anything—don't listen to an audiobook, don't listen to a podcast—and a lot comes up there. I have my phone with me, and when I get back from those walks and jot down things that come up in my mind, I will have so many notes of things that have come up in my brain during the walk. It's really difficult, isn't it? Because I know you also love input. You do a lot of research. As I said, your books have a lot of research in them, and so we both like doing the research. But also I definitely find that has to be balanced with the time for letting it come out again in some form, with that mental silence. You also talk about being uncomfortable, and I feel like sometimes that silence can be uncomfortable as well. Matt: Yes, it can be. There's no telling what might come up when you are faced with silence. Again, it's one of those things—even the outer kind that we think we crave. Sometimes it's a bit frightening when it comes up, which is why we try to fill it with things, like this podcast episode for example. There's a threshold that you can notice you cross sometimes, where what was a natural desire to connect with something that you heard about and found interesting becomes a bit frantic. Where now, really, what might be good is if you shut off—didn't go for the next podcast episode or didn't go for the next click to the website—if you just shut the browser and just sat there and did something else. You're kind of, with a little desperateness, trying to fill the void. What you described about needing to get quiet and let things happen—yes. I love reading and research, but the classic stages of the creative process—first codified, I think, by Graham Wallas, if I remember correctly—they still work. It's really good sometimes to have a model and understand how it works. You have what's sometimes called the preparation stage. All the input, all the research, all the brainstorming, all that kind of thing. Then the incubation stage can be vastly important. That can get frightening, both because the silence seems somehow threatening, like something about you is going to be exposed. Or maybe that you're going to lose the thread of whatever it was and it's never going to come out. But really, if you just stop and let your muse, let your genius do its thing, let your unconscious do its thing, it will suggest itself again. It will come up on its own. Ideas will come back. You'll realise, “Oh, I didn't know what I was going to do with that character. I didn't know how these ideas were going to come together. I didn't even know what this idea for a story, a book, or an essay was going to be.” It comes back up, and with you working with it, it shows what it wanted to be all along. This whole thing about doing the preparation and then allowing it to incubate and germinate and then sprout when it wants to, that still works. Part of the reason that we're scared of the silence, I'm convinced, is because each of us operates in our psychological selves as a closed system. It's like we each comprise our own cosmos, so to speak. I know you know that I have worked in horror literature, the literature of cosmic fear. In cosmic horror, as laid out by the likes of Lovecraft and others, the basic effect has been analysed as constituting a disturbance of the universe. That's the horror of cosmic horror—the world is transformed into this nightmarish thing in a cosmic horror story, where there's a haunting, threatening presence that's out of the ordinary and it's somehow bound up with the narrator's interior world. Life reveals itself as supernaturally or ontologically something nightmarish—there are awful forces that are about to erupt all the time. And whether anybody's into cosmic horror or not, I think it's pretty accurate to say that we each constitute our own world, our own cosmos. A lot of the noise that we make—the mental noise and the complications we introduce into our own lives—is, usually unconsciously, trying to stave off confrontation with the otherness that is outside the barrier of our personal sense of self. The weird thing is that that otherness is actually in us, and in fact, we can approach it in the figure of the daemon or the daimon or the muse. So creativity is fraught. You're dealing with something that you might want to think, “Oh, this is great, it's going to be the source of my ideas, it's going to fulfil my creativity.” Well, yes, but it is frightening to think about the fact of something about yourself being beyond yourself and perhaps being out of your conscious control and somehow guiding your destiny. A lot of people have trouble getting along with their own unconscious, which is another way to put it. There's a horror, a fear, a dread effect that comes when we feel like we are out of control. We all face that ultimately—when it comes to our death, for example. There are some spiritual traditions that talk about dying before you die, that being basically the way to enlightenment in those traditions. Recognising and coming to terms with the fact that this thing that is you, that you call yourself, is transitory. It is only there by being enclosed within and swamped from without by this thing that is not you, which is a sort of void to which you'll return. In the book, I deal with some of that, and I talk about it from a non-dual spiritual viewpoint, because ultimately for me, these creative questions have become inseparable from spiritual questions. Joanna: Yes. And obviously people know about my book Writing the Shadow, which is how we really connected around this Jungian idea of the shadow and the darkness. I agree with you—there's some really interesting things at the juxtaposition of all of these topics, which we could talk about for a long time. I do want to ask you around your idea of “living into the dark.” Because I feel like you do take things beyond just the writing into this idea of living into it. So maybe talk a bit about that. And obviously synchronicity, which is a Jungian psychology concept. Matt: Living into the dark is the thing that forms the overarching ethos or perspective for me of all this. I got the term from “writing into the dark,” which actually comes from the American science fiction and fantasy author Dean Wesley Smith. He wrote a book titled Writing Into the Dark, subtitled “Writing Without an Outline.” It's a great book. I recommend it to anyone. It is about forsaking and foregoing the felt need to outline writing in advance and trusting your creative mind to be able to make up a story in real time. That draws on the deep nature of storytelling to come out right. Therefore you write into the dark, as if you're walking down a road where you have a lantern and you can only see one step ahead. You haven't mapped out the territory. It was a great metaphor. I had already been thinking in that direction about life and about creativity for some time when I first came across that book. I devoured it and recognised it described how I had already been writing anyway, which is one reason it was so powerful for me. Then it edged out into a broader understanding for me that I had also been coming up with, that I just ended up calling “living into the dark.” None of us knows where anything is going, that much is obvious. But living into the dark goes farther than that, to embrace this understanding. I think of this in connection with what so many people, either personally or because of jobs they have where they're required to think like this. I think of this in terms of the famous five-year plan that so many of us want to draw up. There's nothing wrong with a five-year plan or a ten-year plan or a one-year plan. You can come up with that for practical purposes and try and chart where you're going, but we too often forget that that's just a fantasy exercise. We are not actually thinking into the future, nor are we ever actually thinking into the past. Remembering the past, predicting or projecting the future—both are events that are happening right now, in this moment, which is always now. It's no less now than it was when you and I first started this conversation. Past and future are projections—mental projections right now. And everything is unfolding in the present in real time, which effectively means what's going to come next is coming out of—well, we don't know where it's coming out of. Darkness. Living into the dark is living with full-on contact with, and awareness of, and embrace of this fact that we don't know what's coming up. That encompasses all of life and all of creativity. That same darkness, if it's helpful for you to take on this emotional tenor—which it is for me—can relate to the darkness in cosmic horror fiction, or to some of the rich traditions of darkness, like in Daoism with the yin contrasted with yang. Yin is the dark, moon, feminine aspect of things—the receptive source of the universe. This idea of living into the dark, of just accepting that we're all on this journey on a path where we can only see one step ahead, even if that far, has been meaningful to me. It's been meaningful to my creativity, and I recommend it to anybody to whom it appeals. It takes a lot of pressure off. I think that's a guiding meta-theme for me—trying to take the pressure off us from trying to control things that can't be controlled, and more stepping into that flow of understanding: what's going to come to me is going to come to me, and my posture toward it, whether I align with it or not, is what's going to determine my experience of it. You mentioned synchronicity. It's interesting. It's verifiable. I know a lot of people have verified it for themselves. Maybe some people listening to this have too. It's verifiable that when you really get in tune with this present-moment thing and get in tune with your creativity—and you can tell when you're aligned and not, when you feel blocked or when you feel resistance or not—when these things align on their own sometimes, strange coincidences do happen. Jung talked about synchronicity as an acausal connecting principle. That was probably due to the fact that the psyche is not separate from the fabric of the world that gives rise to it, so that we might have subjective things—impressions, fantasies, dreams—that we rather uncannily see mirrored in objective events. Like the famous thing that clarified and coalesced that for him: a psychotherapy session with a patient who was describing a dream she'd been having about a scarab beetle. Then he heard a tapping at the window of his office and he went there and opened it, and there was a European beetle—a kind of scarab beetle, much like the Egyptian scarab—that was there. He held it up and said to the woman, “Is this your beetle? Here is your beetle.” It just blew her mind. It opened new levels of the therapy that she was receiving. Those kinds of things happen. I've had them happen. Joanna: Me too. Matt: If you're a long-time writer or reader, you're familiar with the library genie—the library daemon, we sometimes refer to it as—the book that, just at the moment you think of it and realise, “Oh yes…” You're doing your study, and it doesn't have to be a library, it could be on the web or whatever. You finally realise what it is that you need, what you've been looking for, and in some cases it literally falls off the shelf onto someone's head. What do you make of those when they happen? At the very least, it rattles your cage. You might enter a state of suspended judgement about whether we really are living in a kind of magical cosmos full of real correspondences. It's a bit like the daimon or the muse: is it a metaphor? Is it just an interpretation, or is it something real? Probably the best place is one of profoundly, actively embraced agnosticism, and just take it for what it is. Joanna: Yes, and leaning more into your intuition. I think you definitely demonstrate that in the book as well, really exploring a lot of very interesting topics. Now, we are almost out of time, but you do have a Substack, The Living Dark, where you publish essays, and you've also got all kinds of really interesting books. I want people to go have a look at some of the other stuff you've written, especially if you enjoy horror and religion and all of that kind of thing. So just to ask, how do you decide when something is an essay on The Living Dark, and how do you decide when you are going to put it in a book or in some other way? I feel like a lot of authors are thinking about Substack but don't necessarily know what to put on it. I think I first connected with you on your Substack, where I was like, “Oh, this guy's writing interesting, weird stuff.” How do you use Substack as opposed to writing for your books? Matt: Sure. Let me answer by first talking about what happened previously with that first book on creativity that I mentioned, A Course in Demonic Creativity. I had all kinds of thoughts and ideas coming up, seeded over many years of practice and reading about the daimon and the daemon and the genius and the muse. In 2009 I founded a blog—it was just a WordPress blog—and I titled it Daemon Muse. I attended to it for two to three years. A lot of people ended up reading it. I really did not have any plans, not even any back-burner plans, of taking the material that I published in posts there about this way of creativity and making it a book. I did realise about a year and a half in that essentially I had a book I had already written in those posts. So it took some work, and I spent six months making it all into a coherent book. By the way, that book was only ever published as a PDF, which is still free on my website, MattCardin.com—although plans for the first-ever print edition of it are in motion right now. That was published in 2011. When I went to Substack and started my newsletter there in 2022—and by the way, it wasn't originally called The Living Dark; my first title was “Living Into the Dark,” and then I changed it about a year, year and a half in—I kind of am doing the same thing. It's been a while since I took anything and thought, “I'm writing a book with it.” I write what comes to me to write. You know how Substack Notes is Substack's own version of social media, kind of like Twitter used to be or like X kind of is now. It happens all the time that I write things that just stay in contact with people as a Substack Note—some short thing. And then I realise I wanted to say more about that. Or you have what happened just this morning. Three or four hours before you and I were talking, I started writing a Substack Note and it got so long I realised I had something that could be a post to The Living Dark. So I switched over and finished it that way. The book Writing at the Wellspring came together after I had written things for a couple of years at The Living Dark and realised that I could trace a path through about a third of the posts that I had ever published there, and had the makings of a book. So that, plus other material from earlier in my life—there are things from my private journals from years ago in Writing at the Wellspring—plus some new material, ended up turning into that book. So I'm not thinking about the difference, is what I'm saying. I find writing at my Living Dark newsletter to be a needful and enjoyable creative outlet, partly because I have some 3,800 readers now and it feels good to be in contact with them and to have that audience and to know that there's that eye on what I'm writing. That's partly because I just have the freedom to work it out to my satisfaction and publish it there. I'm already halfway forming another book that will be of a different focus, to come from things that I have published there. So for me, there's an organic relationship between Substack writing, or any kind of blogging, and the writing of books. If people haven't thought about that, they might want to consider it. If you have one already or if you're thinking of starting a blog on Substack or anywhere else, maybe you have things that can guide you to a book that already exists and you just haven't realised it. Joanna: So where can people find you and your books and everything you do online? Matt: Well, The Living Dark that we're talking about is at www.livingdark.net—and it does require the three Ws at the beginning to get there. Then my author website is MattCardin.com, and you can go to the books page there to get a link to all the books I've published and read about them. Joanna: Great. Well, thanks so much for your time, Matt. That was fantastic. Matt: Thank you, Jo. I really appreciate the invitation.The post Writing At The Wellspring: Tapping The Source Of Your Inner Genius With Matt Cardin first appeared on The Creative Penn.

Today we listen to the tale of Erysichthon of Thessaly, a mad king under a curse. His hubris and savagery so angered the mother goddess Ceres, that the icy Goddess Famine cursed him with an insatiable appetite. Trying to fill the voracious void, the king lays waste to the entire kingdom and ultimately devours even himself. In the tradition of myth, it is a living tale, and this one, an eerie mirror of the present. When our search for meaning, becomes a search for soul, we inevitably find ourselves “entangled in myth,” said James Hillman, Jungian analyst and founder of archetypal psychology. Join us as we free ourselves from our mythic entanglement with mad kings and monsters.      Thanks to @iamlucasbakker - Blue Medicine Journal's editor, producer, musician and composer!  

"We built institutions that were supposed to reflect reality. But the windows became mirrors." In the second century, the Gnostics believed our world was a false reality created by a confused lesser god known as the Demiurge. Today, we are trapped in a modern equivalent: a labyrinth of metrics, models, and algorithms that dictate our lives while entirely missing our humanity. In Part 7 of The Mirror World, we dissect the collapse of institutional sense-making and the profound psychological toll of living inside the "fake world." Drawing on the histories of standardized testing, the DSM, and economic modeling, we explore how disciplines retreated behind "mechanical objectivity" to defend against insecurity—and how the profit motive locked us inside these models. Ultimately, we confront the modern pinnacle of this trap: Large Language Models (LLMs). We examine why AI is not the solution, but rather the ultimate simulacrum—the ghost of the human archive that performs the gesture of understanding while severing us from the real. To escape the mirror, we turn to the late psychologist James Hillman. Reclaiming our soul's calling—our daimon—requires more than just new metrics or better prompts. It requires us to do the one thing the algorithm cannot: grieve.

Are we navigating reality, or just a highly optimized map of the past? In this episode, we dive into the architecture of our modern ghost story. We explore how the digital systems built to reflect our world have instead consumed it, replacing human experience with statistical prediction, algorithmic herding, and mechanical objectivity. Drawing on a wide synthesis of philosophy, media theory, and history, we deconstruct how the "map ate the territory." From Jean Baudrillard's simulacra to the predictive text of modern Large Language Models, we examine the uncanny reality of living inside a model that only knows what the dead have written. If the internet is a séance and your digital profile is a voodoo doll, what happens to the biological original? In this episode, we unpack: The Precession of Simulacra: How credit scores and algorithmic risk models generate the reality they claim to measure. The Bureaucracy of the Dead: Why modern AI is less an artificial intelligence and more an industrialization of our ancestors, echoing the warnings of James Hillman. Digiphrenia & The Voodoo Doll: Douglas Rushkoff's narrative collapse and Jaron Lanier's terrifying metaphor for the modern attention economy. The Numbers Shield: Theodore Porter's revelation that "mechanical objectivity" and rigid quantification are actually defense mechanisms used by fragile institutions. Spheres & Foam: Peter Sloterdijk's theory on why we retreat into fragile, toxic digital bubbles when our shared reality fractures. We didn't just build tools; we built environments. And when the machine becomes the environment, its logic becomes our logic. Join us as we look for the gap in the code—the unquantifiable silence where true human agency still survives. Concepts & Thinkers Discussed: Adam Curtis, Jean Baudrillard, Marshall McLuhan, Naomi Klein, Shoshana Zuboff, James Hillman, and Peter Sloterdijk.

In this solo episode, I return to James Hillman's chapter on the puer aeternus and pothos from Loose Ends — and explore how longing may not be a problem to solve, but the very engine of being alive.Building on Jung's reflections on the wanderer while moving beyond a mother-centered interpretation of desire, Hillman reframes longing as structural to consciousness itself. I weave his insights together with Lacan's notion of lack, Jaak Panksepp's SEEKING system in affective neuroscience, Emmanuel Coccia's reflections on fear as the death of desire, and even a Rumi quote I strongly disagree with.This episode is also deeply personal. I reflect on my own journey in therapy, the suspicion of desire within Christian spaces, the demonization of the puer archetype, and why I'm learning to trust longing again — including how erotic pursuit can become a conscious participation in that blue flame rather than a distraction from it.What if wandering isn't immaturity?What if desire isn't deception?What if depression is, at least sometimes, the extinguishing of the flame that keeps us reaching?Not all who wander are lost.

In this solo episode, I reflect on Lars von Trier's Melancholia—a film often described as dark or depressing, yet one I found strangely clarifying and alive.After briefly situating the film within von Trier's long career, I offer a grounded overview of its structure and themes before moving into deeper psychological and philosophical territory. Drawing on psychoanalysis and existential therapy, I explore how Melancholia portrays depression not simply as pathology, but as a slowing down—a descent into depth in a culture addicted to speed, optimism, and surface meaning.Using the work of James Hillman, Freud, Lacan, and existential thinkers like Kierkegaard and Heidegger, I reflect on melancholia as a confrontation with truth rather than something to be rushed past or fixed. The episode considers what the film can teach us about despair, authenticity, and what remains when familiar structures of meaning fall away.This is an episode about staying with difficult emotions long enough to listen—about refusing easy reassurance in favor of depth, honesty, and presence.

In Episode 002 we turn toward the Sun and its symbolism: purpose, vitality and the stories we tell about who we are. It's a gentle wander through light and shadow, and the ways in which the Sun still illuminates our path even if it's a dark and winding one. Transcript available on our website Links The Luminaries: The Psychology of the Sun and Moon in the Horoscope by Liz Greene & Howard Sasportas The Soul's Code: In Search of Character and Calling by James Hillman

In episode 610, depth psychotherapist and astrologer Shawna McGrath, LMFT (she/her) explores why we use the birth time in calculating a birth chart, what to do when you don't know the birth time (for yourself or others), and questions around identity if the birth time or house system changes.References:Astro Data Bank, James Hillman: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hillman,_James

If you've ever caught yourself spiraling in negative self talk, this episode with Case Kenny is for you. Case Kenny, a best-selling author, mindfulness coach, and host of New Mindset, Who Dis?, (one of the most streamed self improvement shows worldwide) shares how to stop negative self talk and reframe your thoughts for confidence and calm.He's known for making self reflection practical—combining psychology, journaling for mental health, and simple mindset shifts that actually stick. Together, we unpack why your inner dialogue can make or break your self confidence, and how to rewire your brain through language, awareness, and movement-based thinking.You'll hear Case Kenny guide a live journaling exercise that helps you identify and rewrite the phrases keeping you stuck in self-doubt. Whether you're trying to build positive self talk, find anxiety relief, or simply speak to yourself more kindly, this episode offers grounded, repeatable tools to get there.What you'll learn:The real science behind negative self talk and how to interrupt itCase's 3-word technique to flip rumination into clarityThe “Language of Optimism” — phrasing that turns problems into progressWhy perfectionism and overthinking stem from the same mental loopHow visualization and mindful journaling reprogram your reticular systemResources:More about Case Kenny: https://www.casekenny.com/New Mindset, Who Dis? Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-mindset-who-dis/id1383599078 Case Kenny's book, The Opposite of Settling: https://amzn.to/47Cbr8K The Soul's Code by James Hillman: https://amzn.to/4hCratc Be Inspired Mama Journal for daily reflection: https://amzn.to/4afbs3s Sauna Space Glow Light (Use the code INSPIRED): https://bit.ly/3ucd6lrWant a free and meaningful way to support the show? Give us a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts (you can even leave a review on Apple too!). And if you're tuning in on YouTube, don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. Your support helps more mamas discover this space and we're so grateful you're here.Follow Melissa:▶︎ YouTube▶︎ Facebook▶︎ Instagram▶︎ TikTok

What if depression isn't an illness to cure but a collective mood that reveals the soul of a broken world? In this episode, Mark Fisher meets James Hillman in a conversation that bridges depth psychology and cultural theory, asking how melancholy and mania shape life under late capitalism. Joined by Emma Stamm, we explore the intersections of acid communism and archetypal psychology—from Fisher's politics of despair to Hillman's vision of a polytheistic psyche. Together we ask what happens when sadness becomes privatized, and how imagination might restore the collective body of the soul. This is a dialogue on melancholy, manic culture, and the end of capitalist realism—a descent into the psychic undercurrents of our time.Patreon listeners get access to our extended conversation on ritual, weirding, and the rebirth of imagination in an age of digital exhaustion.Emma's Substack: https://elftheory.substack.com/ Emma's Website: https://www.o-culus.com/ Latest Acid Horizon updates at the time of this episode: https://splitinfinities.substack.com/p/acephalous-vintagia-and-new-thresholdsCorrection: Durations Festival is in November (not October) of 2025Support the showSupport the podcast:Current classes at Acid Horizon Research Commons (AHRC): https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/ahrc-mainWebsite: https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/Linktree: https://linktr.ee/acidhorizonAcid Horizon on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/acidhorizonpodcast Boycott Watkins Media: https://xenogothic.com/2025/03/17/boycott-watkins-statement/ Join The Schizoanalysis Project: https://discord.gg/4WtaXG3QxnSubscribe to us on your favorite podcast: https://pod.link/1512615438Merch: http://www.crit-drip.comSubscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform: https://pod.link/1512615438 LEPHT HAND: https://www.patreon.com/LEPHTHANDHappy Hour at Hippel's (Adam's blog): https://happyhourathippels.wordpress.com​Split Infinities (Craig's Substack): https://splitinfinities.substack.com/​Music: https://sereptie.bandcamp.com/ and https://thecominginsurrection.bandcamp.com/

Broadcast from KSQD, Santa Cruz on 10-16-2025: Dr. Dawn explains the 2025 Nobel Prize in Physiology awarded to Shimon Sakaguchi, Mary Brunkow, and Fred Ramsdell for discovering T regulatory cells. Previously, medical teaching held that the thymus only eliminated self-attacking T cells, but Sakaguchi found that removing the thymus from newborn mice caused autoimmune disease, suggesting protective regulatory cells existed. He identified CD4+CD25+ cells that suppress inflammation and can convert other T cells. Brunkow and Ramsdell discovered the FOXP3 gene that controls these cells, linking mutations to severe autoimmune diseases like IPEX syndrome. Tissue-specific Tregs regulate metabolism in fat, maintain gut microbiome tolerance, promote wound healing in skin, and control muscle regeneration. Therapeutic applications include stopping type 1 diabetes, preventing organ rejection, and treating multiple sclerosis. An emailer asks about a study linking soft drinks to depression through gut bacteria changes. Dr. Dawn critiques the cohort association study for establishing only correlation, not causation, with a weak risk ratio of 1.1 representing just 10% increased association. She explains that bacteria can influence food cravings, making it unclear whether sodas change bacteria levels or bacteria drive soda consumption. Without Koch's postulates—isolating bacteria, growing them, and reproducing disease—the causal direction remains uncertain despite statistical significance. Dr. Dawn reads David Whyte's essay on injury as invitation to transformation, exploring how pain reveals vulnerability, changes identity, requires patience, and teaches compassion. She notes this perspective may come easier to men who reach midlife believing they control their bodies, while menstruation disabuses women of that illusion earlier. As a physician, she emphasizes the ego crisis when people transition from healthy to "person with disease," requiring identity restructuring that can shake foundations but also mature and strengthen individuals. A caller responds enthusiastically to the injury essay, citing quotes from André Gide, James Hillman, and Norman O. Brown about how illness opens doors to reality closed to healthy mindedness, how the soul sees through affliction, and how vulnerability is inherent to being human. Dr. Dawn agrees that many religions embrace wounds as paths to spiritual enlightenment and commits to deeper reflection on suffering's role in the human condition. Dr. Dawn discusses cognitive functional therapy for chronic back pain, describing firefighter Joe Lawrence who believed his spine was irreparably damaged until physical therapist Peter O'Sullivan challenged those beliefs. The therapy addresses psychological aspects by teaching that backs need movement, not protection, and that tensing muscles worsens pain. The three-step approach examines pain origins including emotional context, gradually reintroduces avoided activities while learning relaxation, and establishes healthy sleep and exercise routines. GLP-1 drug prices have dropped dramatically to $499 monthly at Costco due to compounding pharmacy competition. Dr. Dawn urges immunizations, noting studies show shingles vaccination reduces dementia risk by 20% over seven years, possibly by generating T regulatory cells that reduce brain inflammation. Natural experiments in England where vaccine rollout occurred at different times in different regions provided strong evidence. She explains that chickenpox vaccination in childhood prevents both chickenpox and future shingles. Even tetanus shots appear to lower dementia risk, suggesting vaccines activate immune responses that reduce chronic inflammation. She concludes with practical advice to reduce microplastic exposure by avoiding plastic cups and containers, especially with heat. Eight-year-old coffee makers contain twice the microplastics of six-month-old machines due to deterioration. She recommends ceramic cups, glass or metal kettles, removing food from plastic before cooking, and washing polyester clothing on low heat to minimize microplastic generation.

Episode summary Joe and Mary dive into how platform censorship and shifting algorithms have reshaped psychedelic media, why DoubleBlind moved to a “newsletter-first” model, and what that's revealed about true audience engagement. They reflect on the post-2024 MDMA decision headwinds, state-level policy moves (wins and losses), and how funding, politics, and culture continue to reconfigure the field. They also explore alternatives to alcohol, chronic pain research, reciprocity around iboga/ibogaine, and lessons from PS25 (MAPS' Psychedelic Science 2025). Highlights & themes From platforms to inboxes: Social and search suppression (IG/FB/Google) throttled harm-reduction journalism; DoubleBlind's pivot to email dramatically improved reach and engagement. Post-MDMA decision reality: Investment cooled; Mary frames it as painful but necessary growth—an ecosystem “airing out” rather than a catastrophic pop. Policy pulse: Mixed year—some state measures stalled (e.g., MA), others advanced (e.g., NM; ongoing Colorado process). Rescheduling cannabis may add complexity more than clarity. Censorship paradox: Suppressing education makes use less safe; independent outlets need community support to keep harm-reduction info visible. Chronic pain & long COVID: Emerging overlaps and training efforts (e.g., Psychedelics & Pain communities) point beyond a psychiatry-only frame. Alcohol alternatives: Low-dose or occasional psychedelic use can shift habits for some; Mary stresses individual context and support beyond any single substance. Reciprocity & iboga: Rising interest (including from right-leaning funders) must include Indigenous consultation and fair benefit-sharing; pace of capitalism vs. community care is an active tension. PS25 field notes: Smaller, more manageable vibe than 2023; fewer “gold-rush” expectations; in-person dialogue beats online flame wars. Notable mentions DoubleBlind: Newsletter-first publishing; nurturing new writers and reported stories. Psychedelics & Pain Association / Clusterbusters: Community-driven models informing care and research (cluster headache protocols history). Books & media: Body Autonomy (Synergetic Press anthology); Joanna Kempner's work on cluster headaches - Psychedelic Outlaws; Lucy Walker's forthcoming iboga film. Compounds to watch: LSD (under-studied relative to MDMA), 2C-B, 5-MeO-DMT (synthetic focus), and broader Shulgin-inspired families.   Mary Carreon: [00:00:00] Okay, I'm gonna send it to my dad because he wants to know. Here Joe Moore: we go. Yeah, send it over. So, hi everybody. We're live Joe here with Mary Anne, how you doing today? Mary Carreon: I'm great Joe. How are you? Joe Moore: Lovely. I actually never asked you how to pronounce your last name does say it right? Mary Carreon: Yes, you did. You said it perfectly Joe Moore: lovely. Joe Moore: Um, great. So it's been a bit, um, we are streaming on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitch X and Kick, I guess. Yeah. Kick meta. Meta doesn't let me play anymore. Um, Mary Carreon: you're in forever. Timeout. I got it. I got it. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. I think they found a post the other day from 2017. They didn't like, I'm like, oh cool. Like neat, you Mary Carreon: know, you know. Mary Carreon: Yeah. That happened to me recently, actually. Uh, I had a post taken down from 2018 about, uh, mushroom gummies and yeah, it was taken down and I have strikes on my account now. So Joe Moore: Do you get the thing where they ask you if you're okay? Mary Carreon: Yes, with, but like with my searches though, [00:01:00] like if I search something or, or someone's account that has, uh, like mushroom or psychedelic or LSD or something in it, they'll be like, mm-hmm are you okay? Mary Carreon: And then it recommends getting help. So Joe Moore: it's like, to be fair, I don't know if I'm okay, but Yeah, you're like, probably not. I don't really want your help. Meta. Yeah. Mary Carreon: You're like, I actually do need help, but not from you. Thanks. Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: So not from the techno fascists. Joe Moore: Oh, good lord. Yeah. Uh, we'll go there. Joe Moore: I'm sure. Mary Carreon: I know. I just like really dove right there. Sorry. Yeah. All right, so let's, Joe Moore: um, before we go, let's give people like a bit of, you know, high kicks on, on who is Mary, where you working these days and what are you doing? Mary Carreon: Yeah, thank you. My name is Mary Carryon and I am forever and first and foremost a journalist. Mary Carreon: I have been covering, I say the plant legalization spaces for the past decade. It's, it's been nine and a half years. Uh, on January 3rd it will be [00:02:00] 10 years. And I got my start covering cannabis, uh, at OC Weekly. And from there went to High Times, and from there went to Mary Jane, worked for Snoop Dogg. And then, uh, I am now. Mary Carreon: Double blind. And I have become recently, as of this year, the editor in chief of Double Blind, and that's where I have been currently sinking my teeth into everything. So currently, you know, at this moment I'm an editor and I am basically also a curator. So, and, and somebody who is a, uh, I guess an observer of this space more than anything these days. Mary Carreon: Um, I'm not really reporting in the same way that I was. Um, but still I am helping many journalists tell stories and, uh, I feel kind of like a story midwife in many ways. Just like helping people produce stories and get the, get the quotes, get the angles that need to be discussed, get the sentences structures right, and, um, uh, helping [00:03:00] sometimes in a visionary kind of, uh, mindset. Mary Carreon: So yeah, that's what I'm doing these days. Joe Moore: Oh, there it is. Oh, there you are. Love that. And um, you know, it's important to have, um, editors who kind of really get it from a lot of different angles. I love that we have a lot of alignment on this kind of, and the drug war thing and kind of let's, uh, hopefully start developing systems that are for people. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. If you wanna just say that. Yeah, absolutely. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. Joe Moore: So, um, yeah, I almost 10 years in January. That's great. We um, it's so crazy that it's been that long. I think we just turned nine and a half, so we're maybe just a few, a few months shorter than your I love it. Plant medicine reporting career. Joe Moore: That's great. I love it. Um, yeah, so I think. I think one of the first times we chatted, [00:04:00] um, I think you were doing a piece about two cb Do you, do you have any recollection of doing a piece on two cb? Mary Carreon: I do, yes. Yes. Wait, I also remember hitting you up during an Instagram live and I was like, are you guys taking any writers? Mary Carreon: And you guys were like writers, I mean, maybe depending on the writer. Joe Moore: And I was like, I was like, I dunno how that works. Mary Carreon: Like me. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. It was fun. It was fun to work with people like yourself and like get pieces out there. And eventually we had an awesome editor for a bit and that was, that was really cool to be able to like support young startup writers who have a lot of opinions and a lot of things to point out. Joe Moore: There's so much happening. Um, there was so much fraud in like wave one. Of kind of the psychedelic investment hype. There's still some, but it's lesser. Um, and it's really a fascinating space still. Like changing lives, changing not just lives, right? Like our [00:05:00] perspective towards nearly everything, right? Joe Moore: Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's interesting because the space has matured. It's evolved. It's different than it was even, what a, I mean, definitely nine years ago, but even five years ago, even four years ago, even last year, things are different. The landscape is different than it was a year ago. Mary Carreon: And I, it's, it's interesting to see the politics of things. It's interesting to see who has money these days given like how hard it is just to kind of survive in this space. And it's interesting just to. Bear witness to all of this going down because it really is a once in a lifetime thing. Nothing is gonna look the same as it does now, as it, uh, then it will like in a, in a year from now or anything. Mary Carreon: So it's really, yeah. It's interesting to take account of all of this Joe Moore: That's so real. Uh, maybe a little [00:06:00] too real, like it's serious because like with everything that's going on from, um, you know, governance, governments, ai Yes. Drug policy shifts. Drug tech shifts, yes. There's so much interesting movement. Um, yes. Joe Moore: You, you know, you, you kind of called it out and I think it's really actually worth discussing here since we're both here on the air together, like this idea that the psychedelic market, not idea, the lived experience of the psychedelic market having shifted substantially. And I, I, I think there's a lot of causes. Joe Moore: But I've never had the opportunity to really chat with you about this kind of like interesting downturn in money flowing into the space. Mm-hmm. Have you thought about it? Like what might the causes be? I'm sure you have. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, I have. Yeah. I've thought about it. I mean, it's hard. Well, I don't know. I am really not trying to point fingers and that's not what I'm [00:07:00] trying to do here. Mary Carreon: But I mean, I think a lot of people were really hopeful that the FDA decision last June, not last June, the previous June, a year ago, 2024, June was going to open the floodgates in terms of funding, in terms of, um. In terms of mostly funding, but also just greater opportunities for the space and, uh, greater legitimacy granted to the psychedelic medicine space. Mary Carreon: Mm. And for those who might not know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the, uh, FDA decision to reject, uh, MDMA assisted therapy and, um, that whole, that whole thing that happened, I'm sure if it, you didn't even have to really understand what was going on in order to get wind of that wild situation. Mary Carreon: Um, so, so maybe, yeah. You probably know what I'm talking about, but I, I do think that that had a great impact on this space. Do I think it was detrimental to this space? [00:08:00] I don't think so. We are in a growth spurt, you know, like we are growing and growing pains happen when you are evolving and changing and learning and figuring out the way forward. Mary Carreon: So I think it was kind of a natural process for all of this and. If things had gone forward like while, yeah, there probably would be more money, there would be greater opportunity in this space for people wanting to get in and get jobs and make a living and have a life for themselves in this, in this world. Mary Carreon: I don't know if it was, I don't know if it would necessarily be for the betterment of the space in general for the long term. I think that we do have to go through challenges in order for the best case scenarios to play out in the future, even though that's difficult to say now because so many of us are struggling. Mary Carreon: So, but I, but I have hope and, and that statement is coming from a place of hope for the future of this space and this culture. Joe Moore: Yeah. It's, um, I'm with [00:09:00] you. Like we have to see boom bust cycles. We have to see growth and contraction just like natural ecosystems do. Mary Carreon: Absolutely, absolutely. It has to be that way. Mary Carreon: And if it's not that way, then ifs, if. It's, it like what forms in place of that is a big bubble or like a, a hot air balloon that's inevitably going to pop, which, like, we are kind of experiencing that. But I think that the, I think that the, um, the, the air letting out of the balloon right now is a much softer experience than it would be if everything was just like a green light all the way forward, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: So, Joe Moore: right. And there's, there's so many factors. Like I'm, I'm thinking about, uh, metas censorship like we were talking about before. Yes. Other big tech censorship, right? Mm-hmm. SEO shifts. Mary Carreon: Oh. Um, yes, absolutely. Also, uh, there were some pretty major initiatives on the state level that did not pass also this past year that really would've also kind of [00:10:00] helped the landscape a little bit. Mary Carreon: Um. In terms of creating jobs, in terms of creating opportunities for funding, in terms of having more, uh, like the perception of safer money flow into the space and that, you know, those, those things didn't happen. For instance, the measure for in Massachusetts that didn't go through and just, you know, other things that didn't happen. Mary Carreon: However, there have been really good things too, in terms of, uh, legalization or various forms of legalization, and that's in New Mexico, so we can't, you know, forget that there, and we also can't forget just the movement happening in Colorado. So there are really great things happening and the, the movement is still moving forward. Mary Carreon: Everything is still going. It's just a little more difficult than maybe it could have been Joe Moore: right. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Yes. But also, we Mary Carreon: can't forget this censorship thing. The censorship thing is a horse shit. Sorry. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to cuss, but it is, [00:11:00] but it is Joe Moore: calling it out and it's important to say this stuff. Joe Moore: And you know, folks, if you want to support independent media, please consider supporting Doubleblind and psychedelics today. From a media perspective, absolutely. We wanna wanna put as much out as we can. Yes. The more supporters we have, the more we can help all of you understand what's happening and yes. Joe Moore: Getting you to stay safer. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole difficulty with the censorship is that psychedelics today, and Doubleblind for instance, but also Lucid News, also other, uh, other influencers, other creators in the space, they like. What all of us are doing is putting out information that is ultimately creating a safer user experience. Mary Carreon: And so with the censorship, we are not able to do so anymore, which creates actually a lot of danger. So. Yeah, it's, it's difficult. The censorship is difficult, and if you are somebody who posts about psychedelics, I know that you know this and I am preaching to the choir. Joe Moore: Yeah. So can you talk a [00:12:00] little bit about you all at Double Blind made a major shift in the last number of months towards, uh, kind of not necessarily putting everything out there and, and kind of like, um, actually I don't even know the language you use. Joe Moore: What's the, what's the language you use for the kind of model shift you took on? Mary Carreon: Yeah, I mean, it's great. It's been a wild shift. It's been a wild shift. Um, what we are currently doing is we went to a newsletter first model, which instead of just posting onto a website for everyone to see, and then, um, you know, hopefully getting SEO hits and also posting on their, then posting those stories onto Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and hoping to get traffic through social media. Mary Carreon: Uh, we decided that that was no longer working for us because it wasn't, um, because the censorship is so bad on, on social media, like on Instagram, for instance, and Facebook and Twitter, well, less on Twitter, [00:13:00] but still, nonetheless on social media, the censorship is so bad. And also the censorship exists on Google. Mary Carreon: When you Google search how to take mushrooms, double blinds is not even on. You know, our guide is not on the first page. It's like, you know, way the heck, way the heck down there. Maybe page 2, 3, 4, 5. I don't know. But, um, the issue, the issue with that, or, or the reason why rather that it's that way is because Google is prioritizing, um, like rehabilitation centers for this information. Mary Carreon: And also they are prioritizing, uh, medical information. So, like WebMD for instance. And all of these organizations that Google is now prioritizing are u are, are, are, are organizations that see psychedelic use through the lens of addiction or through drug drug abuse. So [00:14:00] again, you know, I don't know, take it for how you want to, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna tell anybody like what is the right way to use their substances or whatever. Mary Carreon: However, it's really important to have the proper harm reduction resources and tools available. Uh, just readily available, not five pages down on a Google search. So anyways, all of that said double blind was our traffic was way down. And it was looking very bleak for a while. Just we were getting kicked off of Instagram. Mary Carreon: We weren't getting any traffic from social media onto our website, onto our stories. It was a, it was a vicious kind of cycle downward, and it wasn't really working. And there was a moment there where Doubleblind almost shut down as a result of these numbers because there's a, like you, a media company cannot sustain itself on really low page views as a result. Mary Carreon: So what we [00:15:00] decided to do was go to a newsletter first model, which relies on our email list. And basically we are sending out newsletters three days a week of new original content, mostly, uh, sometimes on Wednesdays we repost an SEO story or something like that. Um, to just to engage our audience and to work with our audience that way, and to like to actually engage our audience. Mary Carreon: I cannot emphasize that enough because on Instagram and on Facebook, we were only reaching like, I don't know, not that many people, like not that many people at all. And all of that really became obvious as soon as we started sending out to our email list. And as soon as we did that, it was wild. How many, how many views to the website and also how many just open like our open rate and our click through rate were showing how our audience was reacting to our content. Mary Carreon: In other words. [00:16:00] Social media was not a good, in, like, was not a good indicator of how our content was being received at all because people kind of weren't even receiving it. So going to the newsletter first model proved to be very beneficial for us and our numbers. And also just reaching our freaking audience, which we were barely doing, I guess, on social media, which is, which is wild, you know, for, for a, an account that has a lot of followers, I forget at this exact moment, but we have a ton, double blind, has a ton of followers on, on Instagram. Mary Carreon: We were, we, we get like 500 likes or, you know, maybe like. I don't know. If you're not looking at likes and you're looking at views, like sometimes we get like 16 K views, which, you know, seems good, but also compared to the amount of followers who follow us, it's like not really that great. And we're never reaching new, like a new audience. Mary Carreon: We're always reaching the same audience too, [00:17:00] which is interesting because even with our news, with our, with our email list, we are still reaching new people, which is, which says just how much more fluid that space is. Mm-hmm. And it's because it's, because censorship does not at least yet exist in our inboxes. Mary Carreon: And so therefore email is kind of like the underground, if you will, for this kind of content and this type of material journalism, et cetera. So, so yeah. So it, it, it has been a massive shift. It is required a lot of changes over at double blind. Everything has been very intense and crazy, but it has been absolutely worth it, and it's really exciting that we're still here. Mary Carreon: I'm so grateful that Double-Blind is still around, that we are still able to tell stories and that we are still able to work with writers and nurture writers and nurture the storytelling in this space because it needs to evolve just the same way that the industry and the [00:18:00] culture and everything else is evolving. Joe Moore: Yeah, I think, I think you're spot on like the, when I watch our Instagram account, like, um, I haven't seen the number change from 107 K for two years. Mary Carreon: Absolutely. Same. And, um, same. Joe Moore: Yeah. And you know, I think, I think there's certain kinds of content that could do fine. I think, uh, psychedelic attorney, Robert Rush put up a comment, um, in response to Jack Coline's account getting taken down, um, that had some good analysis, um. Joe Moore: Of the situation. Go ahead. You had No, Mary Carreon: no, I'm just like, you know, I can't, when, when journalists are getting kicked off of these, of these platforms for their stories, for their reported stories, that's like, that is a massive red flag. And that's all I have to say. I mean, we could go into more, more details on that, but that is a [00:19:00] huge red flag. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, for sure. The, I, yeah. And like I'm sure he'll get it back. I'm sure that's not for good, but I think he did. Okay, great. Mary Carreon: I think he did. Yeah. Yeah, I think he did. Joe Moore: Yeah. So thank you. Shout out to Jack. Yeah, thanks Jack. Um, and I think, you know, there's, there's no one with that kind of energy out there. Joe Moore: Um, and I'm excited to see what happens over time with him. Yeah. How he'll unfold. Absolutely unfold. Oh yeah. It's like, um. Crushing the beat. Mary Carreon: Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially the political, the political beat. Like, there's no, there's few people who are really tackling that specific sector, which is like mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: So exciting for a journalist. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so model shifting, like we all have to like, adapt in new ways. Kyle and I are still trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Like maybe it is newsletter first. Like I, I realized that I hadn't been writing for [00:20:00] years, which is problematic, um, in that like, I have a lot of things to say. Mary Carreon: Totally. Joe Moore: And nobody got to hear it. Um, so I started a substack, which I had complicated feelings about honestly. 'cause it's just another. Rich person's platform that I'm, you know, helping them get Andreessen money or whatever. And, you know, so I'm gonna play lightly there, but I will post here and there. Um, I'm just trying to figure it all out, you know, like I've put up a couple articles like this GLP one and Mushrooms article. Mary Carreon: I saw that. I saw that. Really? And honestly, that's a really, like, it's so weird, but I don't, like, it's such a weird little thing that's happening in the space. I wonder, yeah, I wonder, I wonder how that is going to evolve. It's um, you know, a lot of people, I, I briefly kind of wrote about, um, psychedelics and the GLP, is that what it is? Mary Carreon: GLP one. Joe Moore: GLP one. Say Ozempic. Yeah, just, yeah, Ozempic. Yeah, exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah, exactly. I wrote about [00:21:00] that briefly last year and there were a bunch of people like obviously horrified, which it is kind of horrifying, but also there's a bunch of people who believe that it is extremely cutting edge, which it also is. Mary Carreon: So it's really interesting, really fascinating. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I remember Bernie Sanders saying like, if this drug gets as much traction as it needs to, it will bankrupt Medicaid. I guess that's not really a problem anymore. Um, but, but, uh, but so like naming it real quick, like it changed the way we had to digest things, therefore, like mushrooms get digested differently and, um, some people don't respond in the expected ways. Joe Moore: And then there was some follow up, oh, we, in the regulated model, we just do lemon tech. And then I was like, is that legal in the regulated model? And I, I don't know the answer still. Mm-hmm. Like there was a couple things, you know, if users know to do it, you know, I don't, I don't totally understand the regulated model's so strange in Oregon, Colorado, that like, we really need a couple lawyers opinions. Joe Moore: Right. I think Mary Carreon: yes, of course Joe Moore: the lawyers just gave it a [00:22:00] thumbs up. They didn't even comment on the post, which is, laughs: thanks guys. Um, Joe Moore: but you know, laughs: yeah. You're like, thank you. Joe Moore: Thanks and diversity of opinions. So yeah, there's that. And like GLP ones are so interesting in that they're, one friend reached out and said she's using it in a microdose format for chronic neuroinflammation, which I had never heard of before. Joe Moore: Whoa. And um, I think, you know, articles like that, my intent was to just say, Hey, researchers yet another thing to look at. Like, there's no end to what we need to be looking at. Abso Mary Carreon: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, reporting on this space actually taught me that there's so much just in general that isn't being researched, whether that's in this space, but also beyond and how, um, yeah, just how behind, actually, maybe not, maybe behind isn't the right word, but it kind of feels from my novice and from my novice place in the, in the world and [00:23:00] understanding research, it's. Mary Carreon: Hard for me to see it as anything, but being behind in the research that we all really need, that's really going to benefit humanity. But also, you know, I get that it's because of funding and politics and whatever, whatever, you know, we can go on for days on all of that. Joe Moore: What's the real reason? What's the real reason? Joe Moore: Well, drug war. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely the drug war. Nixon. Yeah. Yes, yes, definitely the drug war. Yeah. I mean, and just the fact that even all of the drug research that happens is, again, through the lens of addiction and drug abuse, so Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Hard to right. Yeah. Um, like ni a is obviously really ridiculous and, and the way they approach this stuff, and Carl Hart illustrates that well, and, Mary Carreon: oh man, yes, he does. Joe Moore: Like, I think Fadiman's lab in Palo Alto got shut down, like 67, 66 or 67, and like that's, you know, that was one of the later ones, Mary Carreon: right? And, Joe Moore: and like, Mary Carreon: and here we are. Joe Moore: The amount of suffering that could have been alleviated if we [00:24:00] had not done this is. Incalculable. Um, yes. Yes. Yeah. Mary Carreon: I mean the, yeah, it's hard to say exactly how specifically it would be different, but it's difficult to also not think that the fentanyl crisis and the opioid addiction rate and situation that is currently like plaguing the, the world, but particularly the United States, it's hard to think that it wouldn't be, like, it wouldn't be a different scenario altogether. Joe Moore: Right, right. Absolutely. Um, and it's, um, it's interesting to speculate about, right? Like Yeah. Yes. Where would we be? And Mary Carreon: I know, I know, I know, I know it is speculation. Absolutely. But it's like hard, as I said, it's hard not to think that things would be different. Joe Moore: Right. Right. Um, I like, there's two kind of quotes, like, um, not, this one's not really a quote. Joe Moore: Like, we haven't really had a [00:25:00] blockbuster psychiatric med since Prozac, and I think that was in the eighties or early nineties, which is terrifying. And then, um, I think this guy's name is James Hillman. He is kinda like a Jungian, um, educator and I think the title of one of his books is, we're a hundred Years Into Psychotherapy and the World is Still a Mess. Joe Moore: And I think like those two things are like, okay, so two different very white people approaches didn't go very far. Yes. Um, yes and laughs: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: Thankfully, I think a lot of people are seeing that. Mm-hmm. Um, finally and kind of putting energy into different ways. Um, Mary Carreon: yeah. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I mean, we need to be exploring the other options at this point because what is currently happening isn't working on many fronts, but including in terms of mental health especially. Mary Carreon: So mm-hmm. We gotta get going. Right? We [00:26:00] gotta get moving. Geez. Joe Moore: Have you all, have you all seen much of the information around chronic pain treatments? Like I'm, I'm a founding board member with the Psychedelics and Pain Association, which has a really fun project. Oh, that's interesting. Mary Carreon: Um, I've seen some of the studies around that and it's endlessly fascinating for obvious, for obvious reasons. Mary Carreon: I, um, we have a writer who's been working for a long time on a story, uh, about the chronic pain that has since. Become an issue for this, for her, for the writer. Mm-hmm. Um, since she had COVID. Mm-hmm. Since, since she is just like, COVID was the onset basically of this chronic pain. And, um, there she attended a psychedelics in pain, chronic pain conference and, uh, that has pretty much like, changed her world. Mary Carreon: Um, well, in terms of just the information that's out there, not necessarily that she's painless, but it's just, you know, offering a, a brand new, a brand new road, a brand new path that is giving her, [00:27:00] um, relief on days when the pain is, uh, substantial. laughs: Yeah. Mary Carreon: So that's interesting. And a lot of people are experiencing that as well. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So there's, there's a really cool set of overlap between the COVID researchers, long COVID researchers and the chronic pain people. 'cause there is Yes. This new science of pain that's yes. Our group, PPA put out like a really robust kind of training, um, for clinicians and researchers and even patients to get more educated. Joe Moore: And we're, we're getting, um, kind of boostered by cluster busters and we're kind of leveraging a lot of what they've done. Mary Carreon: Wait, what is a cluster buster? Joe Moore: Oh gosh. Um, so they're a 5 0 1 C3. Okay. Started with Bob Wald. Okay. Bob Wald is a cluster headache survivor. Oh, oh, oh, Mary Carreon: okay. Got it. Got it. Yes. So they're Joe Moore: the charity that, um, has been really championing, um, cluster headache research because they found a protocol [00:28:00] with mushrooms. Joe Moore: Yes, yes, yes. To eliminate. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, this really great, I Mary Carreon: love that. Joe Moore: This really great book was written by a Rutgers, um, I think medical sociologist or anthropologist psychedelic. Love laughs: that. Joe Moore: Joanna Kempner. Cool. Um, and it kind of talks about the whole, um, cluster busters saga, and it was, it was pretty cool. Joe Moore: Nice. So they've been at it for about as long as maps. Um, oh wow. Maybe a little earlier. Maybe a little later. Mary Carreon: I love that. Cool. I mean, yeah, that's really great. That's really great. Joe Moore: So we're copying their playbook in a lot of ways and Cool. We about to be our own 5 0 1 C3 and, um, nice. And that should be really fun. Joe Moore: And, uh, the next conference is coming up at the end of next month if people wanna check that out. Psychedelic. Nice. Mary Carreon: Nice, nice, nice. Cool. Joe Moore: Yeah, so that, like, how I leaned into that was not only did I get a lot of help from chronic pain with psychedelics and going to Phish shows and whatever, um, you know, I, and overuse for sure helped me somehow. Joe Moore: [00:29:00] Um, God bless. Yeah. But I, I like it because it breaks us out of the psychiatry only frame for psychedelics. Mm. And starts to make space for other categories. Mm-hmm. Is one of the bigger reasons I like it. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Which, like, we need to be, we need to, we, no one else is gonna do it for us. We like the people in the space who are finding new uses for these substances need to be creating those, those pathways and those new niches for people to then begin studying, et cetera, and exploring and yeah. Mary Carreon: Making, making a proper avenue for, Joe Moore: right, right. And, you know, um, I don't know that this is a Maha thing, so No, I'm going there, I guess, but like, how do we kind of face squarely America and the world's drinking problems? Not [00:30:00] knowing what we know now about alcohol, you know what I mean? And then like, what are the alternatives? Joe Moore: You know, some, some writers out there on substack are very firm that everybody needs to not do any substance. And like all psychedelics are super bad and drugs are evil, you know, famous sub stackers that I won't name. But you know, like what is the alternative? Like, I, like we have to have something beyond alcohol. Joe Moore: And I think you've found some cannabis helpful for that. Mary Carreon: Yeah, I, you know, it's, it's interesting because it's, there are, there's definitely an argument to be made for the power of these substances in helping, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say curb, but definitely reduce the symptoms of, uh, wanting to use or to drink or to consume a specific substance. Mary Carreon: There's obviously there is an argument to be made. There are, there is ano another camp of people who are kind [00:31:00] of in the, in the, in the, in the realm of using a drug to get off of a drug isn't how you do it. However, and, and I do, it depends on the individual. It depends on the individual and the, and how that person is engaging with their own addiction. Mary Carreon: I think for whether or not the substances work, like whether psychedelics work to help somebody kind of get off of alcohol or get off of cocaine or stop using opioids or, you know, et cetera. Mm-hmm. However, I think like, when the situation is so dire, we need to be trying everything. And if that means, like, if, like, you know, if you look at the studies for like smoking cessation or alcohol use, mushrooms do help, psilocybin does help with that. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. But, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that also need to happen. There's a lot of things that also need to happen in order for those, uh, that relief to maintain and to stick and to, uh, really guide [00:32:00] somebody off of those substances. Mm-hmm. It's not just the substance itself. Joe Moore: Right. So I'm, I'm explicitly talking like recreational alternatives, right. Like how do I Yeah. On per minute, like, am Anitas becoming helpful? Yeah, yeah. Are helpful and Yeah. Yeah. I think like even, um, normal. What we might call like normal American alcohol use. Like Yeah. That's still like, quite carcinogenic and like, um, absolutely. Joe Moore: We're kind of trying to spend less as a country on cancer treatments, which I hope is true. Then how do we, how do we develop things that are, you know, not just abstinence only programs, which we know for sure aren't great. Mary Carreon: Yeah. They don't work. Yeah. I don't, it's, it's difficult. Mm-hmm. It's difficult to say. Mary Carreon: I mean mm-hmm. I don't know. Obviously I, I, well, maybe it's not obvious at all for people who don't know me, but, you know, I exist in a, I exist in, in a world where recreational use is like, it's like hard to define what recreational use is because if we are using this, if we are using mushrooms or LSD even, or MDMA, [00:33:00] you know, there are so many, there's a lot of the therapy that can happen through the use of these substances, even if we're not doing it, you know, with a blindfold on or whatever and yeah, I think like. Mary Carreon: There is a decent swap that can happen if you, if you are somebody who doesn't wanna be, you know, having like three beers a night, or if you are somebody who's like, you know, maybe not trying to have like a bottle of wine at a night or something like that, you know, because like Americans drink a lot and a lot of the way that we drink is, um, you know, like we don't see it as alcoholism. Mary Carreon: Even though it could be, it could be that's like a difficult Joe Moore: potentially subclinical, but right there. Mary Carreon: Um, yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's, um, we don't see it as that because everybody, a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people drink like that, if that makes sense. If you know mm-hmm. If you, if you get what I'm, if you get what I'm saying. Mary Carreon: So, you know, I do think that there's a lot of benefit that, I don't [00:34:00] know, having, like a, having a mushroom, having a mushroom experience can really help. Or sometimes even like low dose, low doses of mushrooms can also really help with, like, with the. Desire to reach for a drink. Yeah, totally. And, and AMS as well. Mary Carreon: I know that that's also helping people a lot too. And again, outside of the clinical framework. Joe Moore: Yeah. I'm, a lot of people project on me that I'm just like constantly doing everything all the time and I'm, I'm the most sober I've been since high school. You know, like it's bonkers that like Yeah. Um, and you know, probably the healthiest event since high school too. Joe Moore: Yeah. But it's fa it's fascinating that like, you know, psychedelics kind of helped get here and even if it was like For sure something that didn't look like therapy. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I think, I think most of us here in this space are getting projected on as to like, you know, being like what Normies would consider druggies or something, or that we are just like, you know, high all the time. Mary Carreon: Um, [00:35:00] I know that that is definitely something that I face regularly, like out in the world. Um, but, you know, I would also, I would also argue that. Uh, like mushrooms have completely altered my approach to health, my approach to mental health, and not even having to consume that, you know, that substance in order or that, you know, that fun fungi, in order for me to like tap into taking care of my mental health or approaching better, uh, food options, et cetera. Mary Carreon: It's kind of like what these, it's like how the mushrooms continue to help you even after you have taken them. Like the messages still keep coming through if you work with them in that capacity. Right. And yeah, and also same with, same with LSD too. LSD has also kind my experiences with that have also guided me towards a healthier path as well. Mary Carreon: I, I understand that maybe for some people it's not that way, but, um, for me that substance is a medicine as well, [00:36:00] or it can be. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so. What are, what are some things popping up these days about like US drug policy that's like getting exciting for you? Like, are you feeling feeling like a looming optimism about a, a major shift? Joe Moore: Are you kind of like cautiously optimistic with some of the weird kind of mandatory minimum stuff that's coming up or? Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that there was a huge, a, a pretty huge shift over at the DEA and I wish I remembered, I wish I remembered his name. The new guy who's now, I believe the head of the DEA, I don't know enough information about it to really feel a way. Mary Carreon: However, I don't think that he's necessarily going to be serving us as a community here, uh, in the psychedelic space. I, you know, I just don't think that that's something that we can ever depend on with the DEA. Uh, I also don't think that [00:37:00] the DEA is necessarily going to be. All that helpful to cannabis, like the cannabis space either. Mary Carreon: Um, I know that, that Trump keeps kind of discussing or, or dangling a carrot around the rescheduling of cannabis. Um, for, he's been, he's been, but he's doing it a lot more now. He's been talking about it more recently. Uh, he says like, in the next like couple weeks that he's going to have some kind of decision around that, allegedly. Mary Carreon: But we will see also, I'm not sure that it's going to necessarily help anybody if we reschedule two. Uh, what from schedule one to schedule th two, three, schedule three. Joe Moore: Either way it's like not that useful. Right. Exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, um, just going to probably cause a lot more red tape and a lot of confusion for the state rec markets. Mary Carreon: So it's like something that we, it's like only ridden with unintentional, unintentional consequences. Unintended consequences. Mm-hmm. Because no one knows how it's really going to [00:38:00] impact anything, um, if, if at all. But I don't know. It's hard, it's hard to imagine that there won't be any, uh, like more complex regulatory issues for business owners and also probably consumers as well. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. This guy's name's Terry Cole. Mary Carreon: Oh, the new DEA guy. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I don't know much about him. Terry. Yeah. Terry, I would love to chat. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Terry, let's talk. I'm sure your people Joe Moore: are watching. Yeah. So like, just let him know. We wanna chat. Yeah. We'll come to DC and chat it out. Um, yeah. It's, um, but yeah, I, Carl Hart's solution to me makes like almost most of the sense in the world to just end the scheduling system Absolutely. Joe Moore: And start building some sort of infrastructure to keep people safe. That's clearly not what we have today. Mary Carreon: No. But building an infrastructure around the health and wellness and uh, safety of [00:39:00] people is the exact opposite system that we have currently right now. Because also the scheduling system has a lot to do with the incarceration in the United States and the criminal just, or the criminal system. Mary Carreon: So, so yeah, like we can't disentangle the two really. Joe Moore: It just started, um, I feel negligent on this. Uh, synergetic press put out a book like a year or two ago called Body Autonomy. Mm-hmm. Um, did that one come across your desk at all? Mm-hmm. No. I wish basically contributed. Oh, nice. A number of people. So it's both like, um. Joe Moore: Drug policy commentary and then like sex work commentary. Oh, nice. And it was like high level, like love that really, really incredible love that detailed science based conversations, which is not what we have around this. Like, that doesn't make me feel good. So you should go to jail kind of stuff. Or like, I'm gonna humiliate you for real though. Joe Moore: Ticket. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God. Uh, when you think about it like that, it just really also shows [00:40:00] just the uh, um, the level at which religion has also kind of fundamentally infused itself into the scheduling system, but also our laws, you know, like what you just said, this like, shame-based, I'm going to embarrass you and make you into a criminal when you know actually you are a law for the most part, a law abiding citizen, with the exception of this one thing that you're doing for. Mary Carreon: A, your survival and or your, like, your feeling good, wanting to feel good addressing pain. Um, there's a large, uh, like noise coming out of the front yard of my house right now. Hold on. Just a, it doesn't sound too bad. It doesn't sound too bad. Okay. Okay, good. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Yeah, I had Joe Moore: people working on my roof all day and somehow it worked out. Joe Moore: Oh, good. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's fascinating and I, I've been coming around like, I, I identify as politically confused, [00:41:00] um, and I feel like it's the most honest way I can be. Um, Mary Carreon: I am also politically confused these days, impossible to align with any, uh, party or group currently in existence at this exact juncture in American history. Joe Moore: I can't find any that I want to throw my dice in with. Nah. This idea of like fucking way being. Like what is the most humane way to do government as a way it's been put to me recently. And that's interesting. So it comes down to like coercion, are we caring for people, things like that. And um, I don't think we're doing it in a super humane way right now. Mary Carreon: Um, we, yeah, I am pretty sure that even if there was, I mean, I think that even if we looked at the data, the data would support that we are not doing it in a humane way. Joe Moore: So Mary Carreon: unfortunately, and Joe Moore: you know, this whole tech thing, like the tech oligarch thing, you kind of dropped at the beginning and I think it's worth bringing that back because we're, we're on all [00:42:00] these tech platforms. Joe Moore: Like that's kind of like how we're transmitting it to people who are participating in these other platforms and like, you know, it's not all meta. I did turn on my personal Facebook, so everybody's watching it there. I hope. Um, see if that count gets, Mary Carreon: um, Joe Moore: but you know, this idea that a certain number of private corporations kind of control. Joe Moore: A huge portion of rhetoric. Um, and you know, I think we probably got Whiffs of this when Bezos bought Washington Post and then Yes. You know, Musk with X and like yes. You know, is this kind of a bunch of people who don't necessarily care about this topic and the way we do, and they're like in larger topics too about humane government and like, you know, moving things in good directions. Joe Moore: Um, I don't know, thoughts on that rift there as it relates to anything you, wherever you wanna go. Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I don't think that they are looking at, I don't think that they are looking [00:43:00] at it the way that we are. I don't think that they can see it from their vantage point. Um, I think that like, in the, in a similar way that so many CEOs who run businesses have no fucking clue about what's actually happening in their businesses and the actual workers and, and employees of their businesses can tell them in more detail. Mary Carreon: Far more detail about what's actually happening on the, on the floor of their own business. Uh, I think that it is something like that. However, that's not to say that, you know, these, these CEOs who employ people who build the A algorithm are obviously guided to create the limitations on us as people who speak about drugs, et cetera, and are creating a algorithm that ultimately is looking at things in a very blanket way in terms of, uh, like we're probably seen on the same level as like drug dealers, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: Which is obviously a much, you know, there's, [00:44:00] it's a very different thing. Um, so, you know, there's like these CEOs are giving directions to their employees to ultimately create systems that harm. Information flow and inform and, and like the information health of, of platforms and of just people in general. Mary Carreon: So it's hard to say because there's nuance there, obviously, but I would bet you that someone like Elon Musk doesn't really have a full grasp as to the, the nuances and details of what's even happening within, on the ground floor of his businesses. Because that's like, not how CEOs in America run, run, and operate. Mary Carreon: They're stupid companies. So, so yeah. And I feel like that, like, that's across the board, like that's across the board. That's how I, that's probably how Zuck is operating with Meta and Facebook, et cetera. And yeah, just likewise and across, across the whole, [00:45:00] across the whole spectrum. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, um, a thing. Joe Moore: Then as the people like, we need to keep looking at how can we keep each other informed. And that's kind of circling back to drug journalism like we do and like, um, other, other sorts of journalism that doesn't really get the press it deserves. Right. And I've been getting far more content that I find more valuable off of tragically back on Zucks platform like IG is getting me so much interesting content from around the world that no major outlet's covering. Mary Carreon: That's so interesting. Like what? Like what would you say? Joe Moore: Oh, um, uh, certain, um, violent situations overseas. Oh, oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, you know, that America's paying for, so like, you know, I just don't love that I don't have a good, you know, journalistic source I can [00:46:00] point to, to say, hey, like right. Joe Moore: These writers with names, with addresses, like, and offices here. Yes. You know, they did the work and they're held, you know, they're ethical journalists, so yes. You can trust them. Right. You know what I mean? Yes, Mary Carreon: yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, all of this makes everything so much harder for determining, like, the censorship specifically makes it so much harder for the people to determine like, what's real, what's not. Mary Carreon: Because, because of exactly what you just said. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, we are, we are basically what that means, like what is required of the people and people who are consuming information is becoming a smart consumer and being able to determine what's real, what's not. How can we trust this individual? Mary Carreon: How can we not, which isn't analysis process that all of us need to be sharpening every single day, especially with the advent of AI and, uh, how quickly this, this type of content is coming at all of us. Like, especially if you're on TikTok, which many of us are, you know, like information comes flying at you 3000 miles an hour, and it's sometimes [00:47:00] really difficult to determine what's real, what's not, because AI is. Mary Carreon: AI is not where it's going to be, and it still is in its nascent phase. However, it's still pretty fucking good and it's still very confusing on there. So, so again, like the media literacy of the people needs to be sharpened every single day. We cannot be on there, we cannot be on the internet existing. Mary Carreon: That everything that we are seeing is real. Whether that's about, you know, these, um, the violence overseas, uh, happening at the hands of the United States, whether that is, uh, even drug information like, you know, et cetera, all of all of it. Or just like news about something happening at Yellowstone National Park or something that is happening in the, uh, at like. Mary Carreon: Um, like potential riots also happening at protests in downtown la, et cetera. Like all, all of it, we need to be so careful. And I think what that also, like, one way that [00:48:00] we can adjust and begin to develop our media literacy skills is talking to people maybe who are there, reaching out to people who are saying that they were there and asking them questions, and also sussing that out. Mary Carreon: You know, obviously we can't do that for all situations, but definitely some of them. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. Like, Joe Moore: um, a quick pivot. Mm-hmm. Were you at PS 25? Mary Carreon: Yes, I was. What did I think? Uh, you know, I, I was running around like crazy at this one. I felt like I didn't even have a second to breathe and I feel like I didn't even have a second to really see anybody. I was like, worry. I was jumping from one stage to the next. Mary Carreon: However, I would say, uh, one of, one of the things that I have said and how I felt about it was that I felt that this, this event was smaller than it was two years ago. And I preferred that I preferred the reduction in size just because it was, uh, less over, less overwhelming [00:49:00] in an, in an already very overwhelming event. Mary Carreon: Um, but I thought that from the panels that I did see that everyone did a really great job. I thought that maps, you know, it's impressive that maps can put on an event like that. Um, I also was very cognizant that the suits were there in full effect and, uh, you know, but that's not unusual. That's how it was last time as well. Mary Carreon: And, um, I felt that there was Mary Carreon: a, uh, like the, the, the level of excitement and the level of like opportunity and pro, like the prosperous. The like, prospect of prosperity coming down the pipeline like tomorrow, you know, kind of vibe was different than last time. Mm-hmm. Which that was very present at the one, two years ago, uh, which was the last PS psychedelic science. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Um, anyways. Yeah. But it was, you know, it was really nice to see everybody. [00:50:00] I feel like in-person events is a great way for everybody in the psychedelic space to be interacting with each other instead of like keyboard warrioring against each other, you know, uh, over the computer and over the internet. Mary Carreon: I think that, um, yeah, uh, being in person is better than being fighting each other over the internet, so, yeah. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. People seem to be a little bit more civil in person. Mary Carreon: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And I think that that is something that we all need to be considering more often, and also inviting people from across the aisle to your events and creating peace, because in person it's a little different than it is. Mary Carreon: When you have the opportunity to, uh, yeah, like keyboard attack someone over the internet, it's like, yeah. It's just so silly. So silly. We look like fools. Like we look like absolute idiots doing that. And you know what? I cannot sit here and say that I haven't looked like an idiot. So, you know, it's like I'm not, I'm not talking from like a high horse over here, but, but you know, it's like, it's [00:51:00] better when it's in person. Mary Carreon: I feel like there's like more civil engagements that we can all have. Joe Moore: It's practice, you know? Yeah. We're learning. Yeah. We are. We should be learning, including us, and yes, of course. Um, I, I play a subtler game these days and, uh, you know, I, I, I, it's better when we all look a lot better in my opinion, because yes, we can inform policy decisions, we can be the ones helping inform really important things about how these things should get implemented and absolutely right. Joe Moore: Like, Mary Carreon: absolutely. Yeah, it does. It does. Nobody, any service, especially these medicines, especially these sacraments, especially these plants, these molecules, et cetera, if we are all sitting here fighting each other and like calling each other names and trying to dunk on one another, when like in reality, we are also all kind of pushing for the same thing more or less. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So a thing that [00:52:00] I, it's a, it's kind of a, I, I had a great time at PS 25. I have no, no real complaints. I just wish I had more time. Yeah, same. Um, same. Yeah. Our booth was so busy. It was so fun. Just good. And it was like, good. I, I know. It was really good. I'm trying to say it out loud. I get to talk at the conference before Rick did. laughs: Oh, oh, Joe Moore: the morning show they put us on at like seven 30 in the morning or something crazy. Oh my god. It was early. I dunno if it was seven 30. Mary Carreon: That's so early. That's so early. Joe Moore: Yeah, right. Like that's crazy. I got zero nightlife in That's okay. Um, I was not, I was there for work. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I was Joe Moore: jealous. I didn't party, but you know, whatever. Joe Moore: Yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: I did not party this time really in the same way that I did at PS 20. Was it 2023? Joe Moore: 23, yeah. 23. I only stay up till 11 one night in 23. Nice. Mary Carreon: Okay. Um, okay. Joe Moore: So I behaved, I have a pattern of behaving. 'cause I like That's good. I'm so bent outta shape inside going into these things. I'm like, I know, I know. Joe Moore: And, and I'm like, oh, all [00:53:00] my friends are gonna be there. It's gonna be great. And then it's like, yeah. It's mostly friends and only a little bit of stress. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I had a, I had a great time. It was really good seeing everybody again. Like you, I wish that I had more time with people. Like there are people that I like didn't even see who are my friends, Joe Moore: so, which Yeah. Joe Moore: Which is sad. That's like a subtext in, in like the notes coming away from 25. Is that the, um, American Right, if we wanna call it that, is very interested in this stuff. Oh yeah. Like the Texas establishment. Oh yeah. Um, the Texas contingent, right? They're deep. They're real deep. Mm-hmm. I have, um, Mary Carreon: let's talk about that more. Mary Carreon: Yeah. So Joe Moore: it's optimistic in, in some sense that psychedelic science is getting funded more. By states. 'cause the feds aren't stepping up. Right. I love that. Right. Yeah. Like, Hey feds, look what we can do. And you can't somehow, and [00:54:00] then, um, we'll see if state rights stays around for a while longer, maybe, maybe not. Joe Moore: And then the other part is like, is there a slippery slope given the rhetoric around addiction and the rise in interest in iboga for compulsory addiction treatment with psychedelics or, or compulsory mental health treatments with psychedelics because of the recent, it's illegal to be a person without housing. Joe Moore: Um, and you're gonna get put in treatment. Mm. Like, that's now a thing. So like, I don't know, I don't think forced treatment's good at all. I, and I don't think like, um, like the data is something like 15% effective, maybe less. Right. Right. It's not a good use of money. I don't know. We're, let's, I. You can go there if you want, and riff on that, or if you wanna talk about like, Texas, um, Arizona more generally. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I will just say this, I also don't really believe that forced treatment is like good, you [00:55:00] know, data Joe Moore: says it's bad. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I also, yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know. Yeah, that's, it's complex. It's a complex issue. I also don't think it's good, but I also do think that we need a much better framework and foundation for like, if people do want the help, helping them get it. Mary Carreon: Much more easily and in a way that's going to be beneficial for them. Um, and I don't think that that system or that pathway currently exists as we saw in, uh, with, with, um, measure 1 0 9 and the failure of measure 1 0 9 or, or was it Measure 1 0 10, 1 10, measure one 10 in Oregon. Joe Moore: But did you see the response yesterday or two days ago? Joe Moore: No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I'll I'll send it to you later. Okay. So the university did the research, um, Portland State University did the research Yes. And said, Hey, look, there was actually 20 other things that were higher priority. Like that actually influenced this increase in overdoses, not our law. Mary Carreon: Right. Mary Carreon: Yes. It was really COVID for Okay. [00:56:00] Like for, yeah. Right. Absolutely. Also, there was not a. Like there was not a framework in place that allowed people to get off the street should they want to, or you know, like, like you just can't really have a, all drugs are legal, or small amounts of drugs are legal without also offering or creating a structure for people to get help. Mary Carreon: That, that's, you can't do one without the other. Unfortunately. That's just like a, that's faulty from the start. So that's all I'll really say about that. And I don't think that that had fully been implemented yet, even though it was something that wasn't ideal for the, um, for the, for the measure. And I believe it was measure one 10, not measure 1 0 9, to be clear. Mary Carreon: Measure one 10. Um, yes, but confirmed one 10 confirmed one 10, yes. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, uh, that's, you know, that's kind of what I'll say. That's what I'll, that's where I'll leave that portion. Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, but yeah, forced treatment. I don't know. [00:57:00] We can't be forcing, forcing people to do stuff like that. Mary Carreon: I don't know. It's not gonna, it's, yeah, it doesn't seem Joe Moore: very humane. Mary Carreon: Yeah. No. And it also probably isn't gonna work, so, Joe Moore: right. Like, if we're being conservative with money, like, I like tote, like to put on Republican boots once in a while and say like, what does this feel like? And then say like, okay, if we're trying to spend money smartly, like where do we actually get where we want to be? Joe Moore: And then sometimes I put on my cross and I'm like, okay, if I'm trying to be Christian, like where is the most, like, what is the most Christian behavior here in terms of like, what would the, you know, buddy Jesus want to do? And I'm just like, okay, cool. Like, that doesn't seem right. Like those things don't seem to align. Joe Moore: And when we can find like compassionate and efficient things, like isn't that the path? Um, Mary Carreon: compassionate and t. Yeah, even, I don't know, I don't know if it looks lefty these days, but Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah. [00:58:00] Yeah. Um, yeah, it's complicated. It's complicated, you know, but going back, kind of, kind of pivoting and going back to what you were talking about in regards to the subtext, some of the subtext of like, you know, where psychedelic medicine is currently getting its most funding. Mary Carreon: You know, I do believe that that was an undercurrent at psychedelic science. It was the, the iboga conversation. And there's, there's a lot, there's a lot happening with the Iboga conversation and the Iboga conversation and, um, I am really trying to be open to listening to everyone's messages that are currently involved in. Mary Carreon: That rise of that medicine right now? Um, obviously, yeah, we will see, we'll see how it goes. There's obviously a lot of people who believe that this is not the right move, uh, just because there's been no discussions with, uh, the Wii people of West Africa and, you know, because of [00:59:00] that, like we are not talking to the indigenous people about how we are using their medicine, um, or medicine that does like that comes from, that comes from Africa. Mary Carreon: Um, also with that, I know that there is a massive just devastating opioid crisis here that we need to do something about and drug crisis that we need to be helping with. And this medicine is something that can really, really, really help. Um, I find it absolutely fascinating that the right is the most interested party in moving all of this forward, like psychedelic medicine forward. Mary Carreon: And I, I currently have my popcorn and I am watching and I am eating it, and I am going to witness whatever goes down. Um, but I'm, I, I hope that, uh, things are moving in a way that is going to be beneficial for the people and also not completely leave behind the indigenous communities where this medicine comes from. Joe Moore: [01:00:00] Mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: We'll see how it goes. Yeah. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. It Joe Moore: would be lovely if we can figure it out. Um, I know, and I think, uh, Lucy Walker has a film coming out on Iboga. Mm. I got to see it at Aspen, um, symposium last summer, and it was really good. Mm. So I'm sure it'll be cut different, but it's so good and it tells that story. Joe Moore: Okay. Um, in a helpful way. I'm gonna, I, yeah. I always say I'm gonna do this. I'm like, if I have space, maybe I'll be able to email her and see if we can screen it in Colorado. But it's like a brilliant film. Yeah. Cool. This whole reciprocity conversation is interesting and challenging. And so challenging being one of the few countries that did not sign onto the Nagoya protocol. Joe Moore: Absolutely. We're not legally bound, you know, some countries are Mary Carreon: I know. Yes, yes, yes. So Joe Moore: we're, you know, how do we do that? How do we do that skillfully? We still haven't done it with, um, first Nations folks around their [01:01:00] substances. Um, I think mushrooms are a little flexible and account of them being global, um, from Africa to Ireland and beyond. Joe Moore: And, but you know, that's, we still want to give a nod to the people in Mexico for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's, I had some fun commentary there that I would love to flesh out someday. Uh, but yeah, it's not for today. Mary Carreon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there's, yeah, there's obviously, there's obviously a lot with the conversation of reciprocity here and, um, I know, I, I don't know. Mary Carreon: I, I, what I do know is that we need to be listening to the indigenous people, not just listening to them second, like secondhand or listening to them, uh, once we have moved something forward, like actually consulting with them as the process goes. And that, you know, the way that both parties move, indigenous folks and, uh, western folks move, uh, are at inherently different paces. Mary Carreon: And, [01:02:00] um, I just hope, and I wish, and I, I hope, I just hope that, uh, Western what, like the Western party, the western folks who are diving into these medicines. Slow the fuck down and listen and just are able to at least make one right move. Just one, just like you. Like it's, doesn't have to be this, it doesn't have to be that hard. Mary Carreon: Although the pace of capitalism usually propels, uh, the western folks at, at a much quicker rate than, u

In this episode I return to The New Polytheism by David Miller, focusing exlusively on the the essay in the appendix by James Hillman called Psychology: Monotheistic or Polytheistic. This essay discusses how our theological inclinations affect our approach to psychoanalysis.

Stephen Aizenstat, Ph.D., is the founder of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Dream Tending, and the Academy of Imagination. For more than 35 years, he has explored the power of dreams through depth psychology. He has collaborated with Joseph Campbell, Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, James Hillman, and Native elders worldwide. He conducts dreamwork and imagination seminars throughout the US, Europe, and Asia. For more, visit dreamtending.com.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.We are proud to announce the we have launched TWATNews.com, launched in August 2025.TWATNews.com is an independent online news platform dedicated to uncovering the truth about Donald Trump and his ongoing influence in politics, business, and society. Unlike mainstream outlets that often sanitize, soften, or ignore stories that challenge Trump and his allies, TWATNews digs deeper to deliver hard-hitting articles, investigative features, and sharp commentary that mainstream media won't touch.These are stories and articles that you will not read anywhere else.Our mission is simple: to expose corruption, lies, and authoritarian tendencies while giving voice to the perspectives and evidence that are often marginalized or buried by corporate-controlled media. 

In this episode I look at David Miller's insightful examination of polytheism in sociology, psychology, and philosophy. I focus on his discussions of Niebuhr, Cornford, and Heidegger.

Despite all this good stuff, I have been feeling a little flat recently. It comes to us all. Much unrealised. Everything in the rear view mirror. I'm too asleep, bad-tempered, just irritable at the world. James Hillman told me it's important to just ‘decompose' every now and then. Don't make everything alright. Let Saturn and his dry, difficult, Beckett-like thoughts own the house for a minute. Let things get sepia toned. Draw the curtains. Inspect the ruins.In the words of an old Welsh poem:What I loved in boyhood, I now hate:A girl, a stranger, a gray horse.But love Hillman as I do, I can't stay there forever (neither did he really, but he worked hard and brilliantly on the legitimacy of melancholy).And it's in this kind of mood that God gives me a talking to. Walks me over to my large-font-sized Bible and places his substantial, clean-nailed finger on the story of Moses and God gently sayeth:Suck it up buttercup. — Martin Shaw 

What can a centuries-old fairy tale teach us about our astrological journey? In this illuminating conversation, jazz musician and professor Ryan Nielsen explores the Grimm Brothers' tale "Allerleira" (Thousand Furs) as a profound map of psychological development through the first six astrological houses.Ryan shares his personal path from a rigid religious upbringing to discovering the healing language of depth psychology and astrology. Drawing on Marian Woodman's work, we unpack how fairy tales can guide us through healing what Woodman calls "patriarchal consciousness" – defined not as gender but as any culture devoted to power and perfection at the expense of authenticity.The story follows a princess who flees her father's kingdom disguised in animal furs, finding refuge in a castle kitchen where she works with ashes and soup-making – beautifully illustrating the sixth house themes of humble service, repetition, and alchemical transformation. Through three magical dresses (golden as the sun, silver as the moon, bright as stars), we witness the integration of solar and lunar consciousness necessary for wholeness.This episode illuminates why regression isn't failure but often necessary healing, how cycles matter more than linear progress, and why the "woodshed" work (as jazz musicians call practice) prepares us for authentic relating. As Jung reminds us, "Real consciousness has to be based upon life experienced. Just talking about things is not enough."Whether you're curious about astrology, psychological development, or simply love fairy tales, this conversation offers rich insights into the soul's journey toward authenticity and belonging – and how sometimes, we must don a mantle of a thousand furs before we can reveal our true cosmic nature.* Writeup generated by Buzzsprout AICover Art: Illustration from p. 281 of The Green Fairy Book (1902) by Andrew LangRyan's New Website is yourveryownlife.comReferencesAuthors / ThinkersBessel van der Kolk – The Body Keeps the ScoreGabor Maté – When the Body Says No / The Myth of NormalPeter Levine – Waking the Tiger: Healing TraumaDonald Kalsched – The Inner World of TraumaMarion Dunlea – BodyDreaming in the Treatment of Developmental TraumaMarion Woodman – Leaving My Father's House / The Pregnant Virgin Liz Greene – archetypal/psychological astrology James Hillman – archetypal psychologyBrian Clark – astrologer, mythologist, soulful astrology AstrosynthesisMelanie Reinhart – Chiron and the Healing Journey Anne Baring – The Myth of the Goddess / writings on lunar consciousnessMyths / Fairy TalesAllerleirauh (Aller Lira) – Grimm Brothers tale (“Thousandfurs” or “All-Kinds-of-Fur”)Handless Maiden – Grimm BrothersCinderella (Aschenputtel) – Grimm BrothersThe Frog King – Grimm BrothersThe Three Feathers – Grimm BrothersAriadne's Thread (Greek myth, labyrinth and Minotaur)Dionysus & Folis (Centaur's jar of wine) – myth of Hercules and the centaurs Podcast Musician: Marlia CoeurPlease consider becoming a Patron to support the show!Go to OnTheSoulsTerms.com for more.

  The Visionary Activist Show turns 30! We re-play the first-ever Visionary Activist Show (September 5, 1996) with James Hillman… (double Aries liberating Jungian psychologist) about the importance of ‘growing down' into one's self, recognizing demonic mythological possession at play, and awakening the imagination of everyone to dream the desirable world into being… a riveting relevant resonant romp, with which Caroline riffs for the remainder of the hour. Let's get down! Completely lively and mega-pertinent for us all now.       *Woof*Woof*Wanna*Play?!?* · www.CoyoteNetworkNews.com · The Visionary Activist Show on Patreon The post The Visionary Activist Show – 30 Years of Visionary Activist appeared first on KPFA.

After 12 years of working in corporate advertising, Case Kenny launched a podcast, New Mindset, Who Dis? as a personal experiment. In its first month, the show drew 57,000 downloads, yet Case kept it hidden, afraid it didn't fit his professional image. Over time, he embraced his vulnerability, created bestselling guided journals, and built a brand helping millions live more optimistic and mindful lives. In this episode, Case joins Ilana to share how a side project turned into a multi-million-dollar portfolio career, why regret is his decision-making compass, and how choosing the right words can change the way you live. Case Kenny is an author, entrepreneur, and host of the globally recognized podcast, New Mindset, Who Dis?. Known for his work in mindfulness and personal growth, he has built a multi-million-dollar brand through writing, guided journals, and speaking engagements. In this episode, Ilana and Case will discuss: (00:00) Introduction (01:42) From Language Studies to Corporate Advertising (05:07) Starting the Podcast Without Clarity (07:43) Overcoming the Fear of Vulnerability (09:04) Stepping Fully into a New Identity (14:14) When Passion Becomes a Business (16:53) COVID, Journals, and a Turning Point in Sales (18:10) Why Journaling Works and How to Start (25:01) Building a Connected Portfolio Career (27:40) Business Challenges and Six-Figure Losses (33:09) Battling Expectations, Regret, and Trust as a Default (42:10) Defining Mindfulness and Advice to Case's Younger Self Case Kenny is an author, entrepreneur, and host of the globally recognized podcast, New Mindset, Who Dis?, a podcast with tens of millions of downloads. Known for his work in mindfulness and personal growth, he has built a multi-million-dollar brand through writing, guided journals, and speaking engagements. His work has been featured on The Today Show, Good Morning America, Forbes, and NBC. Connect with Case: Case's Website: casekenny.com Case's LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/casekenny/ Case's Instagram: instagram.com/case.kenny Case's YouTube: youtube.com/c/CaseKenny Resources Mentioned: Case's Podcast, New Mindset, Who Dis?:  pod.link/1383599078 The Opposite of Settling by Case Kenny: https://www.amazon.com/Opposite-Settling-Everything-Without-Losing/dp/1401995918 The Soul's Code by James Hillman: https://www.amazon.com/Souls-Code-James-Hillman/dp/0517271036 That's Bold of You by Case Kenny: https://www.amazon.com/Thats-Bold-You-Thrive-Vibrant/dp/B0BRDFLJNZ Leap Academy: Ready to make the LEAP in your career? There is a NEW WAY for professionals to fast-track their careers and leap to bigger opportunities. Reserve your 24-HOUR PASS today at https://webinar.leapacademy.com/24hr-pass1

The poem I read at the beginning called Crying For A Vision at Ghost Ranch will be part of a new collection called Where Do Dreams Come From? The poem that Simon reads is A Man Lost By A River by Michael Blumenthal from the anthology, The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart, edited by Robert Bly, James Hillman, and Michael Meade. The poem Ben reads is one of his own and it is called We Need Artists Today. If you want to know more about the Male Journey - the Men's work we have all been involved in go to https://www.malejourney.org.uk/ With massive thanks to Ben and Simon. Here is Ben's - Poet Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/BenBurnsPoet/ Here is Simon's Agent's page https://hatchtalent.co.uk/actors/simon-bubb/ 

This is a discussion about ideas in my podbook 'Why Your Life Really Matters' available as audio podcast and video on YouTube.  Ryan's YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@Centerforcreativechoice?si=yPxXbqFBLrAyh89Q Ryan J. Holsapple, Ph.D. holds a Ph.D. in Depth Psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute, Ryan's areas of expertise are Self Soul Spirit psychology (an applied model of human development and authentic living), genetic personality psychology, consciousness studies, and applied existential and phenomenological philosophy. Ryan is passionate about ensuring the Self Soul Spirit model's continuation in facilitation with clients, educational training with groups, and publishing research. Ryan's Ph.D. work at Pacifica strongly emphasized the work of prominent psychologists such as Carl Jung and James Hillman.

In this episode Laura and Maria meet with the renown Laurence Hillman to explore how astrology and dream interpretation can work together. They look at the world of archetypes, as developed by the hallmark theories of Laurence's famous father, James Hillman, a protégé of Carl Jung and author of The Soul's Code. Laurence himself has pioneered the use of archetypal work in astrology and dreams, working with businesses and organisations around the world on personal development and leadership programmes. As a professional archetypal coach he specializes in helping clients, whether individual or corporate, understand their deeper purpose in life's calling through these challenging times.   ** And DR Hillman is coming to the DRI in London on Tuesday, August 26, 2025 to run a workshop on the whole subject of astrology and Dreaming. Check out the DRI website driccpe.org.uk for tickets **   In the episode the team reflect how celestial archetypes, like the Sun and Moon, in someone's astrological chart can create a story about the person's character which will then surface in dream time to deepen the interpretation. They look briefly at Laura's Sun and Moon positions in her chart and Maria recalls how she had a prophetic dream that led her to tracking down Laurence Hillman and finding out more about Laurence's work. Laurence has written several successful books including Planets in Play, How to Reimagine Your Life Through the Language of Astrology and is the co-author of Alignments, How to Live in Harmony with the Universe. And also the co-author of The Archetypes at Work, Evolving Your Story, One Character at a Time.   Laurence can be contacted on: https://laurencehillman.com/   The Cosmos Within: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-cosmos-within-dreams-archetypes-and-astrology-with-laurence-hillman-tickets-1435000909349?aff=oddtdtcreator   Our dreams are worth inquiring about too! Share a dream or a question via our website driccpe.org.uk or the social links below!   Let us know what you think, and submit a dream for us to explore on the podcast!  Instagram @thedreamboatpodcast FaceBook @dreamboatpodcast Twitter @dreamboatpod DRI website: driccpe.org.uk/contact    This podcast is a project of the DRI, the centre for dream studies at CCPE, the psychotherapy college overlooking the canals at London's scenic Little Venice.   Remember you can join the DRI for just £30 a year currently to access discounted events, courses, newsletters and join in the conversation about dreams. Go to driccpe.org.uk/sign-up to join!   Keep dreaming, and keep sharing your dreams!   Credits Recorded on Riverside.fm by Dave and Laura Edited by James Ede at Be Heard https://beheard.org.uk  Podcast Artwork Design by Kat Seager Design   Music: Adventures by A Himitsu https://soundcloud.com/a-himitsu  Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported— CC BY 3.0 Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/2Pj0MtT Music released by Argofox https://youtu.be/8BXNwnxaVQE  Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/MkNeIUgNPQ8 #dream #dreams #recurringdream #nightmares #psychology #research #psychotherapy #trauma #treatment #sleep #transpersonal #science #alchemy #spirituality #jung #lucid #luciddreaming #podcast #dreamwork #technology #AI #artificialintelligence #gpt #individuation #art #surrealism #consciousness   Tags: Insta: @onefulness @dreamresearchinstitute @iasddream  FB: @associationforstudyofdreams @laura.payne.33 @dreamresearchinstitute   

Dr. Laurence Hillman was born into a lineage of archetypal thought. His father, James Hillman, is considered the father of American Archetypal Psychology. Laurence Hillman grew up in Zurich, where his father had studied with Jung and, subsequently, served as the Director of Studies at the C.G. Jung Institute.As a professional archetypal coach, Laurence Hillman helps his clients understand their deeper purpose and their life's calling. In his role as a consultant, he helps leaders and organizations understand their archetypal patterns and advises on high-level decision making in organizations. His tools for mapping archetypes include archetypal astrology for which he is one of the leading voices worldwide.Laurence Hillman is the author of Planets in Play - How to Reimagine Your Life Through the Language of Astrology. Laurence also co-authored two other books including Archetypes at Work - Evolving your Story, One Character at a Time, which he wrote with Richard Olivier. He and Richard co-created Archetypes at Work™, a new cutting-edge method to assess and develop people and organizations to become fit for the future.

My name is Marina A. Smirnova. I was born on Sakhalin Island (the Far East of Russia), and, well over twenty years ago, I made the U.S.A. my home. My journey has been enriched by earning a Bachelor degree in Music Education (Minsk State Pedagogical University, 1996), a Master of Arts degree in Counseling (Central Michigan University, 2003), and a PhD degree in Psychology, with Transpersonal Psychology Concentration (Sofia University, formerly Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, 2013). I started my teaching path at the age of 18 as a K-12 music teacher. In 2013, I began my contribution to Saybrook University. In 2016, I became an Assistant Program Director for the Department of Humanistic and Clinical Psychology; in 2017-an Interim Psychology Chair. Currently, as a core faculty member of the Department of Humanistic Psychology at Saybrook, I serve as a Full Professor of Psychology and Consciousness, Spirituality, and Integrative Health (CSIH) Specialization Director. I am a recipient of two recent Saybrook University awards: Presidential Award for Excellence (November 2021) and Exemplary Humanistic Educator Award (August 2024). My interests are deeply humanistic and transpersonal in nature. Outside of the halls of academia, I support adults' inner development by helping them to integrate fully their deeply evocative, Exceptional Human Experiences (EHEs). Such experiences often arise within and out of dreams, visions, visitations, spiritual practices, breathwork, visionary journeys, and reality-shattering UFO /ET /Alien /Non-Human Intelligences encounters. I support experiencers transpersonally in their quests for spiritual vitality, fulfillment, vibrant longevity, soulful sovereignty, wholeness, and ascension. I have a deep sense of appreciation for contemplative spirituality, mystical and esoteric traditions, and contemplative practices, and my current overarching focus is on exploring, potentiating, and integrating Exceptional Experiences (EEs) and Exceptional Human Experiences (EHEs), in general, and reality-shattering UFO /ET /Alien / Non-Human Intelligences encounters, in particular. My heart-centered art and interests include: (1) intuitive spiritual support and guidance; (2) transpersonal ways of knowing, embodiment, ascension mentoring, and spiritual consultation; (3) extreme, deeply evocative, and visionary transpersonal/holotropic states; (4) John E. Mack's transpersonal research on UFO / ET /Alien encounters and human transformation; (5) Stan Grof's expanded cartography of the psyche, holotropic states of consciousness, and GROF® Breathwork / Holotropic Breathwork®; (6) C.G. Jung's transpersonal legacy, Joe Campbell's heroic journey, and James Hillman's acorn theory; (7) psionics, remote viewing, mythology and personal mythology, dreamwork, guided imagery, clinical hypnosis, and alchemy of ascension; (8) consciousness calibration work by David R. Hawkins, (9) the biology of personal empowerment by Bruce H. Lipton; (10) Enneagram; (11) Gene Keys and Dream Arc (by Richard Rudd); (12) indigenous traditions and heart-centered spirituality; and (13) other embodied spiritual approaches that engage inner resources to optimize soulful sovereignty, fulfillment, vibrant longevity, joy, and ascension. My son is a decorated U.S. Army Veteran. I live and create in Sedona, Arizona. With Many Blessings and Joy of Joys, Marina Marina A. Smirnova, PhD https://earthsideacademy.substack.com/

My name is Marina A. Smirnova. I was born on Sakhalin Island (the Far East of Russia), and, well over twenty years ago, I made the U.S.A. my home. My journey has been enriched by earning a Bachelor degree in Music Education (Minsk State Pedagogical University, 1996), a Master of Arts degree in Counseling (Central Michigan University, 2003), and a PhD degree in Psychology, with Transpersonal Psychology Concentration (Sofia University, formerly Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, 2013). I started my teaching path at the age of 18 as a K-12 music teacher. In 2013, I began my contribution to Saybrook University. In 2016, I became an Assistant Program Director for the Department of Humanistic and Clinical Psychology; in 2017-an Interim Psychology Chair. Currently, as a core faculty member of the Department of Humanistic Psychology at Saybrook, I serve as a Full Professor of Psychology and Consciousness, Spirituality, and Integrative Health (CSIH) Specialization Director. I am a recipient of two recent Saybrook University awards: Presidential Award for Excellence (November 2021) and Exemplary Humanistic Educator Award (August 2024). My interests are deeply humanistic and transpersonal in nature. Outside of the halls of academia, I support adults' inner development by helping them to integrate fully their deeply evocative, Exceptional Human Experiences (EHEs). Such experiences often arise within and out of dreams, visions, visitations, spiritual practices, breathwork, visionary journeys, and reality-shattering UFO /ET /Alien /Non-Human Intelligences encounters. I support experiencers transpersonally in their quests for spiritual vitality, fulfillment, vibrant longevity, soulful sovereignty, wholeness, and ascension. I have a deep sense of appreciation for contemplative spirituality, mystical and esoteric traditions, and contemplative practices, and my current overarching focus is on exploring, potentiating, and integrating Exceptional Experiences (EEs) and Exceptional Human Experiences (EHEs), in general, and reality-shattering UFO /ET /Alien / Non-Human Intelligences encounters, in particular. My heart-centered art and interests include: (1) intuitive spiritual support and guidance; (2) transpersonal ways of knowing, embodiment, ascension mentoring, and spiritual consultation; (3) extreme, deeply evocative, and visionary transpersonal/holotropic states; (4) John E. Mack's transpersonal research on UFO / ET /Alien encounters and human transformation; (5) Stan Grof's expanded cartography of the psyche, holotropic states of consciousness, and GROF® Breathwork / Holotropic Breathwork®; (6) C.G. Jung's transpersonal legacy, Joe Campbell's heroic journey, and James Hillman's acorn theory; (7) psionics, remote viewing, mythology and personal mythology, dreamwork, guided imagery, clinical hypnosis, and alchemy of ascension; (8) consciousness calibration work by David R. Hawkins, (9) the biology of personal empowerment by Bruce H. Lipton; (10) Enneagram; (11) Gene Keys and Dream Arc (by Richard Rudd); (12) indigenous traditions and heart-centered spirituality; and (13) other embodied spiritual approaches that engage inner resources to optimize soulful sovereignty, fulfillment, vibrant longevity, joy, and ascension. My son is a decorated U.S. Army Veteran. I live and create in Sedona, Arizona. With Many Blessings and Joy of Joys, Marina Marina A. Smirnova, PhD https://earthsideacademy.substack.com/

In an era of climate anxiety, political polarization, and economic uncertainty, suggesting optimism might seem tone-deaf or naive. But what if optimism isn't about ignoring reality but instead equips us to face it more effectively?Today, we explore the counterintuitive power of hopeful thinking in difficult moments. Drawing on both cutting-edge psychology and James Hillman's intriguing "acorn theory," we'll share practical techniques for nurturing genuine optimism without falling into toxic positivity or denial. Perfect for anyone feeling overwhelmed by current events who wants to rediscover purpose and possibility without sacrificing realism.

Part 1 of this discussion examines psychology, philosophy, religion, spiritually, science, and medicine, a panel of five (5) people opens with the question, 'where am I?' and 'what is going on [in the world]?' and refers to James Hillman, ideas and action as an artificial distinction, are they the same thing? How are they interlinked? The poet Major Ragain is quoted, 'contemplation alters the course of rivers.' From the Bhagavad Gita: Freedom from action is not accomplished by abstaining from action, so how is it accomplished? Relinquishing the fruit of action Ghandi's, 'through service, I find myself.' The Panel begins to examine the Taoist concept of non-action, Wu Wei. How do we cultivate Wu Wei? The Panel explores Univerisal Truths. Natural action arises, we have a deep intrinsic calling, how do we find and express it? What is our reason for being here? To receive the Divine Will is a part of choiceless action. Biographies of Panel: Dr. Bob Insull is an New York State Licensed Psychologist with more than 60 years experience teaching, training, and treating in the arena of human behavior. In his clinical practice, he has worked across the developmental stages (children to golden-agers), across the diagnostic spectrum (chemical dependency, severe mental illness, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and PTSD), and treatment settings (clinics, inpatient psychiatric centers, and private practice). During the closing years of his practice, he became interested in the area of psychological trauma and worked with survivors in individual and group settings. He has been retired from active practice for about 15 years and spends his time engaged in self-discovery on the Sufi Path and social-change activities with his church. Brian Mistler is a Missouri-hillbilly curious about Reality. He has lived as a computer scientist, psychologist, running and growing businesses, and helping entrepreneurs, hospitals, and healthcare providers. Mid-life Brian had a partially debilitating nerve injury and soon after met a true Vedanta teacher who spent 30+ years in India and trained under Swami Chimayananda, Sawmi Dayananda, and others. This refocused his study of the classic non-dual wisdom as presented in the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. Learn more at http://www.stillcenter.media. Hari Om Tat Sat. Peace, peace, peace. Richard Grego is Professor of philosophy and cultural history at FSCJ. His research interests focus on cross cultural themes in religion and science - including philosophy of mind, comparative world religions/world civilizations, and the metaphysical - theological implications of theoretical physics and cosmology. His publications have included studies in the history - philosophy of science and conceptions of nature in the history of western philosophy, as well as cross-cultural perspectives on mind/ consciousness in western philosophy - psychology and the neo-Vedanta Hindu tradition. Prior to his academic career, he was a criminal investigator - polygraph examiner for the Florida Office of the Public Defender and in the private sector Instructor at the Criminal Justice Institute and International Academy of Polygraph Science in Florida, and national Academic Director of the Criminal Defense Investigation Training Council. Joel David Lesses is President and Executive Director of Education Training Center, Inc. and his work experience is in education, psychology, and counseling for people marginalized by trauma, addiction, and psychological distress. He is deeply vested in addressing the effects of mental health distress and its marginalization including, incarceration, homelessness, and institutionalization. Joel is dedicated to reframing mental health distress as a potential spiritual marker and existential opportunity. He holds dual Master of Science degrees from University at Buffalo in Rehabilitation Counseling and Biomedical Sciences with a concentration in Epidemiology. Henry Cretella, M.D. studied and practiced Tibetan Buddhism for several years along with training in martial arts. He then immersed himself in the more universal Sufism of Inayat Khan, an Indian mystic, for close to twenty years. He functioned as a senior teacher in the Inayati Order and the Sufi Healing Order before pursuing his independent practice and study of mysticism. He now integrates what he has learned and experienced over these many years. He graduated from Vanderbilt Medical School and completed his psychiatric training at Strong Memorial Hospital of the University of Rochester in Rochester, NY. His professional career spanned over 40 years as a general and child and adolescent psychiatrist and included teaching, administration, clinical practice and consultation in the greater Rochester and western NY areas. This, along with his spiritual and especially mystical interests lead him to certification as a mind body practitioner through the Center for Mind Body Medicine and Dr. James Gordon. He retired several years ago from active psychiatric practice, but continues to incorporate what he has learned into his spiritual practices and offerings.

What calls you?We spend so much of our time wrapped up in what we should do—clean the house, pay the bills, check off the endless to-do list. But what if we set aside the “shoulds” for a moment and listened to what truly calls us? What if Spirit speaks, not through obligation, but through excitement? In this episode, I explore the powerful concept of the Daimon, as introduced in James Hillman's The Soul's Code. This inner guide—your unique blueprint—has been with you since birth, nudging you toward your true destiny. I share a personal moment of realization, where a simple painting reminded me of my own creative calling. What brings you joy? What sparks that deep inner yes? In my book, The Spiritual Artist (available on Amazon), I call this your Intelligence of Being—the unique code within you that guides your creative and spiritual journey. Today, I challenge you to listen to that voice—the one that knows your path better than your to-do list ever could. When you hear the calling, what will you do?  

Episode Summary: Seth returns and is joined by Mike for a deep dive into imagination, creativity, and the transformative power of channeling. Together, they explore active imagination, engaging with the imaginal realm, and Seth's journey toward connecting with dragons as primal, ancestral forces. The episode is a celebration of creativity, personal growth, and embracing the mysterious depths within.Topics Discussed:Active Imagination and Shadow Work: Mike and Seth share their experiences with active imagination, discussing its challenges and the breakthroughs it offers. They reflect on entering the imaginal realm, confronting fear, and engaging with the unconscious without judgment.Channeling Dragons: Seth recounts his journey of connecting with dragons as symbols of ferocity and transformation. He describes the physical and emotional sensations that led him to this practice and how it has shifted his perspective on creativity and power.The Power of Somatic Therapy: Seth explains how Hakomi somatic psychotherapy combines mindfulness and body awareness with imagination to foster healing and self-discovery.Creativity and the Middle World: Drawing on James Hillman's concept of the "middle world," the duo discusses how creativity bridges the abstract and material realms, allowing us to co-create with consciousness.Imagination as a Tool for Healing and Growth: From inviting magical beings to help with mundane tasks to dreaming bigger, the conversation underscores the importance of imagination in expanding one's sense of self and engaging with life fully.Soul-Making and Self-Acceptance: The hosts reflect on how engaging with the imaginal world fosters self-acceptance and offers new perspectives on challenges and emotions.LinksSeth's Share Circles: Seth hosts guided active imagination meditations as part of his share circles, offering a safe space for people to connect with their inner worlds and share authentically. For more details, email mormonsonmushroomspod@gmail.com or reach out to Seth on Instagram at @sethlloyds.Creativity Coaching with Seth: Seth offers coaching sessions to help individuals connect with their subconscious, engage with creativity, and establish life-affirming spiritual practices. Email Seth.Stephenson@protonmail.com for inquiries.200th Episode Live Recording: Join Mike and Doug for a special live recording of their 200th episode on February 2nd at 5 PM MT. To participate, email mormonsonmushroomspod@gmail.com.Join the Conversation:Sign up for the Mormons on Mushrooms Underground Newsletter to stay connected and hear about future events and updates.Share your thoughts, stories, or questions by emailing mormonsonmushroomspod@gmail.com.Episode Highlights:“The face we show the unconscious is the face that it shows back.” “We are part of creation, and all we can do is fully be a part of it.” “An emotion is a sensation with a story.” “Imagination is not about escaping reality; it's about enriching it.” Thank You for Listening! If this episode inspired or resonated with you, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to Mormons on Mushrooms on your favorite podcast platform. 

In this episode, Matt speaks with Richard Tarnas about his book Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New Worldview. Richard Theodore Tarnas is a cultural historian and astrologer known for his books The Passion of the Western Mind: Understanding the Ideas That Have Shaped Our World View and Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New World View. Tarnas is professor of philosophy and psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies, and is the founding director of its graduate program in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness. In 1968 Tarnas entered Harvard, graduating with an A.B. cum laude in 1972. He received his Ph.D. from Saybrook Institute in 1976 with a thesis on psychedelic therapy. In 1974 Tarnas went to Esalen in California to study psychotherapy with Stanislav Grof. From 1974 to 1984 he lived and worked at Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, teaching and studying with Grof, Joseph Campbell, Gregory Bateson, Huston Smith, Elizabeth Kübler-Ross, and James Hillman. He also served as Esalen's director of programs and education. Get the book: https://a.co/d/4gJFNxS warmachinepodcast.org Music for this episode: Lamentium, Monasterium Imperi Nomad's Theme, Matt Baker

Send your email to join the MoM Underground: Co-create with a community of artists and stay informed of online and local events, including gatherings, concerts, live podcast recordings, meditations, etc.Support Mormons on Mushrooms:Become a PatreonSend a ContributionIn this episode, Mike and Doug dive into a riveting conversation sparked by Mike's eerie solo trip to see the terrifying new Nosferatu movie—while high, no less! This opens the door to a deep discussion about fear, creativity, and how our media choices reflect and shape our inner lives.Key Topics Discussed:Mike's Nosferatu ExperienceWhat it's like to immerse yourself in a terrifying film while grappling with existential questions.The surprising symbolic themes in Nosferatu and how they mirror our pursuits and sacrifices in life.Exploring the Hero's JourneyReflections on the archetype of the hero, from Frodo to Neo, and how it resonates with our longing to matter.The paradox of seeking external validation versus finding fulfillment through self-discovery.Soul-Making Through Art and ExpressionDoug and Mike discuss James Hillman's concept of soul-making: engaging deeply with life's ecstasies and heartbreaks.The difference between creating for external approval and the fullness that comes from authentic, communal experiences—whether on stage, around a fire, or during a chill Friday night gathering.TikTok and the Validation TrapNavigating the highs and lows of sharing content online.Why likes, comments, and views can never fully satisfy the soul.New Year Intentions: Living AuthenticallyMike shares a new ritual inspired by Doug: defining “I am” statements to align with personal truths and aspirations.How these intentions tie back to music, community, and creating moments of true connection.

In this week's episode of the 3 Pillars Podcast I will be discussing the Warrior Archetype. How do you define it, what is it's shadow, and how can we apply our Christian faith to strengthen this archetype? SUBSCRIBE TO THE NEW PODCAST CHANNEL HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@3PillarsPodcast God bless you all. Jesus is King. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I appreciate all the comments, topic suggestions, and shares! Find the "3 Pillars Podcast" on all major platforms. For more information, visit the 3 Pillars Podcast website: https://3pillarspodcast.wordpress.com/ Don't forget to check out the 3 Pillars Podcast on Goodpods and share your thoughts by leaving a rating and review: https://goodpods.app.link/3X02e8nmIub Please Support Veteran's For Child Rescue: https://vets4childrescue.org/ Stay connected with Joe Russiello and the "Sword of the Spirit" Podcast: https://www.swordofthespiritpodcast.com/ Join the conversation: #3pillarspodcast References Jung, C. G. (1969). The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious. Princeton University Press. Hillman, J. (1989). A Blue Fire: Selected Writings by James Hillman. Harper & Row. Rohr, R. (2011). Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life. Jossey-Bass. Peterson, J. B. (2018). 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. Random House. Peck, M. S. (1978). The Road Less Traveled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values, and Spiritual Growth. Simon & Schuster. #podcast #archetype --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/chase-tobin/support

  Trickster Medicine Today is the exact 28th anniversary of the Visionary Activist Show, September 5th, 1996 First guest – James Hillman, splendiferous humming with current pertinence show, that we re-play today, in a discussion that could have happened 20 minutes ago, about the importance of ‘growing down' into one's self, recognizing demonic mythological possession at play, and awakening the imagination of everyone to dream the desirable world into being …followed by Democracy Now clip with Gershon Baskin, with whom we dedicate to the Peace Deal he animates… Democracy Now began the same year as Visionary Activist Show… We are Democracy Now – On Mushrooms, entheo edition, restoring astro*mytho*politico participatory literacy woof to culture… Vision and Action be Trickster Medicine, the sine qua non for effectively  vitalizing all our dedications….. Let's hold many stories simultaneously, cooperating with the good in all…     Caroline W. Casey · www.CoyoteNetworkNews.com The post The Visionary Activist Show – 28 Years of Trickster Medicine! appeared first on KPFA.

Award-winning journalist and Hillman biographer Dick Russell discusses his recent book The Life and Ideas of James Hillman: Volume II: Revisioning Psychology with Patricia Martin. Dick Russell is the award-winning author of fifteen non-fiction books, including three New York Times best-sellers. In addition to his biographical trilogy about depth psychologist James Hillman, he has just […] The post Jung in the World | Decoding James Hillman with Dick Russell appeared first on C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago.

Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LEPHTHANDIn this monologue, Sereptie explores the fascinating intersections of alchemy, psychoanalysis, and poststructuralist philosophy. The discussion centers around the concept of alchemical salt, its significance in Renaissance alchemical traditions, and its appropriation in 20th-century psychological theories. This episode connects these ideas with the works of Carl Jung, James Hillman, and Jacques Derrida, offering a unique perspective on the formation and function of subjectivity and how they challenge the polemics of Jordan Peterson.Support the Show.Support the podcast:https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/Linktree: https://linktr.ee/acidhorizonAcid Horizon on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/acidhorizonpodcastSubscribe to us on your favorite podcast: https://pod.link/1512615438Merch: http://www.crit-drip.comOrder 'Anti-Oculus: A Philosophy of Escape': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/anti-oculus-a-philosophy-of-escape/Order 'The Philosopher's Tarot': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-philosophers-tarot/Subscribe to us on your favorite podcast: https://pod.link/1512615438 LEPHT HAND: https://www.patreon.com/LEPHTHANDHappy Hour at Hippel's (Adam's blog): https://happyhourathippels.wordpress.com​Revolting Bodies (Will's Blog): https://revoltingbodies.com​Split Infinities (Craig's Substack): https://splitinfinities.substack.com/​Music: https://sereptie.bandcamp.com/ and https://thecominginsurrection.bandcamp.com/

Philosopher, Scientist, Author and mystic, Dr. Tom Cheetham enters the mind meld. Video episode

This espresso shot solo episode is an excerpt from my recent Masterclass: 2024: Your Breakthrough Year. In this episode, I explore the transformative power of initiations, guided by insights from Francis Weller and James Hillman. I talk about the three parts of initiation: severance from the world you once knew, radical alteration to your sense of identity, and inability to go back to the world you knew. I also discuss the power of community during these personal transformations, the importance of prioritizing our instincts as well as alchemizing our knowledge into action. This episode is an invitation to align our actions and remember that true transformation comes from within. Get the full recording at markgroves.com/2024 —Full Masterclass recording: https://mark-groves.mykajabi.com/Masterclass-2024-sign-up —Follow me on Instagram - @createthelove: https://www.instagram.com/createthelove —Subscribe to my Newsletter: https://mark-groves.mykajabi.com/newsletter —Subscribe to my Substack: https://markgroves.substack.com —Follow me on Facebook - @createthelove: https://www.facebook.com/createthelove —Get My New Book! Liberated Love - Release Codependent Patterns and Create the Love You Desire: https://a.co/d/91ElXvN If you want to dive deeper into my content, search through every episode, find specific topics I've covered, and ask me questions, go to my Dexa page: https://dexa.ai/markgroves Themes: Authenticity, Belonging, Breakups, Relationships, Spirituality, Boundaries, Self-Worth, Self-Love, Codependency, Infidelity, Dating, Transformation, Career, Mental Health, Purpose, Initiations, Community 0:00:00 Intro 0:00:33 Initiations and its Three Parts 0:01:58 Identity Shift: Embracing the Unknown 0:02:35 A Radical Alteration: Severance from the Familiar World 0:03:12 The Distractions from Self 0:03:50 The Screen Report and Lack of Time for Personal Growth 0:04:19 The Power of Community 0:06:09 Trusting Your Instincts and Ignoring Outside Opinions 0:06:37 Pursuing Your Calling as an Imperative 0:07:26 Being Yourself in Relationships 0:09:25 Finding Inner Strength Again 0:10:24 Where You're Not Liberated 0:10:41 The Mind's Limitations in Understanding Reality 0:11:31 Knowledge vs. Action: The Importance of Living in Integrity Drop us a note at podcast@markgroves.com for sponsor product support, questions, comments, guest suggestions, or just to say hello! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices