Podcast appearances and mentions of tony overbay

John Hilton III was born in San Francisco and grew up in Seattle. He served a mission in Denver, and got a Bachelor’s degree from Brigham Young University. While there he met his wife Lani and they have six children. They have lived in Boise, Boston, Miami, Mexico, Jerusalem and China. John has a Master’s degree from Harvard and a Ph.D from BYU, both in Education. John is a professor of Religious Education at BYU. John has published several books with Deseret Book, including Considering the Cross: How Calvary Connects Us with Christ. He's the author of the new course “Finding Christ in the Old Testament.” Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links ScriptureCentral.org Scripture Central on YouTube Finding Christ in the Old Testament Newsroom: New Guidance on Bible Translations for Latter-day Saints Handbook: 38.8.40.1 Editions and translations of the Holy Bible YouVersion Bible App page (Apple app here) Keeping Jesus as the Center of Leadership | An Interview with John Hilton III Connecting Others to Jesus Through the Cross at Calvary | An Interview with John Hilton III Bearded Bishops, Rated-R Movies, & the Honor Code | An Interview with John Hilton III Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights In this episode, John discusses the recent changes in the Church’s approach to Bible translations and how these changes can enhance understanding of the scriptures, particularly the Old Testament. The conversation emphasizes the importance of accessibility and comprehension in scripture study. Key Insights The Church’s handbook now states that while members should generally use a preferred or church-published edition of the Bible, other translations may also be used, reflecting a shift towards inclusivity and understanding. Many individuals struggle with the King James Version due to its higher reading level, which can hinder their engagement with the scriptures. Simpler translations can provide clarity and accessibility. Various Bible translations, such as the English Standard Version (ESV) and New International Version (NIV), can help bridge the gap for those who find the King James Version challenging, making the scriptures more relatable and understandable. The discussion highlights the importance of using different translations in teaching settings to enhance comprehension and engagement, particularly for youth and those unfamiliar with the King James Version. Leaders are encouraged to create an inclusive environment in classes where all translations are respected, fostering a space for discussion and learning. Leadership Applications Leaders can promote the use of various Bible translations in their classes to help members better understand scriptural principles, especially for those who may struggle with traditional texts. By being aware of the reading levels of different translations, leaders can guide individuals to resources that suit their comprehension needs, ensuring that everyone can access the teachings of the scriptures. Encouraging open discussions about different translations can help create a welcoming atmosphere in church settings, allowing members to feel comfortable sharing their insights and questions without fear of judgment. 00:02:44 – Guest Introduction: John Hilton III 00:03:26 – Classroom Applications of Bible Translations 00:04:08 – John Hilton’s Projects with Scripture Central 00:04:50 – Changes in Church Handbook Regarding Bible Translations 00:08:34 – Discussion on Handbook Changes 00:14:33 – Historical Context of Bible Translations 00:19:07 – Addressing Concerns About Modern Translations 00:21:18 – Recommendations for Bible Translations 00:24:31 – Using Different Translations for Comprehension 00:26:04 – Importance of Accessible Translations for Youth 00:28:01 – Anticipating Classroom Dynamics with Various Translations 00:30:21 – Creating a Respectful Classroom Environment 00:32:51 – Teaching Strategies for Engaging with Scriptures 00:41:18 – The Role of Listening to Scripture 00:44:10 – Speculation on Future Translations of Church Scriptures 00:47:44 – Encouraging Leaders to Support Comprehension in Others The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

What if your New Year's resolutions keep failing because they were never really yours to begin with? Most goals we set aren't chosen—they're inherited from magazines, social media, parents, or that version of ourselves we think we're supposed to become. That's why they don't stick. In this episode, Tony shares his decades-long "pushup obsession" and how Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) finally broke the cycle—not through more discipline, but by discovering what actually mattered to him. What you'll learn: - Why "socially compliant goals" sabotage your motivation before you even start - The crucial difference between values (your compass) and goals (checkboxes)—and why confusing them keeps you stuck - How to use lead measures instead of lag measures to build sustainable change - The "Passengers on the Bus" technique for moving forward even when self-doubt is loud - A simple 5-step "Get Back on the Saddle" plan for when you inevitably wobble With over 20 years of clinical experience, Tony explains why you're not broken—you're human—and offers a framework for building a life that actually feels like yours. Ready to stop beating yourself up and start driving toward what matters? This might be the last resolution episode you'll ever need. 00:00 Introduction: Are Your Goals Really Yours? 00:44 Meet Tony Overbay: Your Guide to Self-Improvement 01:57 The New Year's Resolution Dilemma 04:03 The Pushup Story: A Lesson in Values 12:34 Understanding Socially Compliant Goals 15:04 Experiential Avoidance: The Trap of Avoiding Discomfort 20:26 Lag Measures vs. Lead Measures: The Key to Achieving Goals 27:28 Values vs. Goals: The Core of Sustainable Change 38:52 Perceived Value vs. Perceived Capability 40:57 Understanding Perceived Capability and Value 41:46 Corporate America and Disengagement 42:50 New Year's Resolutions and Motivation 46:18 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) vs. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) 54:47 The Power of ACT in Therapy 01:00:58 Practical Steps for Getting Back on Track 01:06:05 Embracing Emotions and Moving Forward 01:08:01 Conclusion: Driving the Bus Towards What Matters Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

Joshua Sears earned his BA in Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Brigham Young University, an MA from The Ohio State University, and a PhD in Hebrew Bible from The University of Texas at Austin. His research focuses on biblical polygamy, the book of Isaiah, and Latter-day Saint Bible editions. He has presented at numerous academic and Church-related conferences and is the author of A Modern Guide to an Old Testament. Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links A Modern Guide to an Old Testament BYU Religious Studies Center: rsc.byu.edu Kerry Muhlestein: “A Savior with a Sword” Blue Letter Bible BibleHub NetBible.org NRSVUE Bible: New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Key Insights Understanding Genres: The Old Testament contains various literary genres, including poetry, narrative, and prophecy. Recognizing these genres is crucial for proper interpretation and enhances the reading experience. Challenges of the Old Testament: The text is lengthy and covers a vast historical period, which can be overwhelming. It also includes complex themes such as violence and cultural practices that may challenge modern readers. Christ in the Old Testament: Jehovah, the Lord in the Old Testament, is identified as the premortal Jesus Christ. Understanding this connection allows readers to see Christ’s active role throughout the text, not just in prophecies of His mortal ministry. Resources for Study: Utilizing various resources, including the Come Follow Me manual, podcasts, and online tools, can enhance understanding and provide context for difficult passages. Addressing Difficult Questions: It is acceptable for teachers to admit when they do not know the answer to a question. This honesty fosters a learning environment and encourages further exploration of the scriptures. Leadership Applications Encouraging Engagement: Leaders can promote a deeper understanding of the Old Testament by encouraging members to explore its genres and themes, helping them to appreciate its relevance to their faith. Creating a Supportive Environment: By modeling humility and openness about not having all the answers, leaders can create a safe space for discussion and inquiry, allowing members to feel comfortable asking questions. Utilizing Resources: Leaders should leverage available resources, such as the new institute manuals and online tools, to prepare lessons that are informative and engaging, ensuring that the focus remains on the scriptures themselves. Timestamps 00:03:02 – Overview of “A Modern Guide to an Old Testament” 00:04:18 – Challenges of the Old Testament 00:05:33 – The Complexity of Old Testament Genres 00:06:43 – Teaching Strategies for the Old Testament 00:08:10 – Shifting Mindsets for Old Testament Study 00:09:48 – Importance of Understanding Context 00:11:06 – Balancing Content Mastery and Teaching 00:12:28 – Keeping Jesus Christ at the Center 00:14:10 – Resources for Hebrew Words and Translations 00:15:46 – Using Podcasts for Study 00:17:27 – Navigating Difficult Questions in Class 00:19:19 – Emphasizing Conversion in Teaching 00:20:30 – The Role of AI in Biblical Study 00:22:04 – Addressing Tough Issues in the Old Testament The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Will Kennedy and Isiah Gray are members of Brothaz in the Foyer, a group that produces content to represent and share the experiences of Black members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are part of a larger group of hosts for the Brothaz in the Foyer Podcast, and their goal is to bring people “from the foyer into the chapel.” This conversation explores their personal journeys, the dynamics of race within the Church, and the importance of fostering understanding and inclusivity. Links YouTube: @brothazinthefoyer Instagram: @brothazinthefoyer TikTok: @brothazinthefoyer Paul Reeve books Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Key Insights Experiences in the Temple: Will and Isiah share how their experiences as Black men in the temple often draw attention, highlighting the need for normalization of diverse representation within sacred spaces. Cultural Differences: The hosts discuss how their backgrounds influence their experiences in the Church, noting that cultural differences can lead to misunderstandings and the need for open dialogue. Reconciliation with Church History: Both emphasize the importance of understanding the Church’s history regarding race, including the priesthood ban, and how this knowledge can strengthen faith rather than diminish it. Empathy and Genuine Interaction: They stress the importance of treating all individuals as children of God and engaging in genuine conversations to bridge cultural gaps, rather than making interactions feel forced or awkward. Political Climate and Faith: The discussion touches on the politicization of race and the need for members to prioritize their faith and love for others over political affiliations, promoting unity within the Church. Leadership Applications Foster Open Dialogue: Leaders should create environments where members feel comfortable discussing sensitive topics related to race and culture, encouraging transparency and understanding. Educate on Church History: Leaders can benefit from familiarizing themselves with resources like Paul Reeve’s book on race in the priesthood to better address historical issues and foster inclusivity. Encourage Representation: Leaders should seek diverse voices in leadership roles and callings, recognizing that representation can enhance the community’s strength and unity, while also being mindful not to tokenize individuals based on race. Highlights 00:03:09 – Origin of Brothaz in the Foyer Podcast 00:04:34 – Cultural Differences in Latter-day Saint Experiences 00:06:08 – Broader Christian Dialogue and Inclusivity 00:06:58 – Personal Background: Will’s Journey to the Church 00:08:35 – Personal Background: Isiah’s Journey to the Church 00:10:58 – Navigating Church Culture and History 00:14:03 – Discussing Race in Church Settings 00:17:04 – Parenting and Discussing Race with Children 00:19:46 – Encouragement for Friends Struggling with Church History 00:20:15 – Seeking the Savior in Difficult Conversations 00:22:34 – Addressing Race in Church Leadership 00:23:38 – Importance of Validation and Transparency 00:25:27 – Practical Approaches for Church Leaders 00:26:26 – Genuine Interactions vs. Awkwardness 00:29:06 – Experiences in the Temple 00:31:17 – Building Relationships through Meaningful Conversations 00:33:41 – Representation and Diversity in Leadership 00:35:02 – Navigating Race in Utah and the Wasatch Front 00:37:57 – The Impact of Politics on Race Conversations 00:42:36 – Mixing Christianity with Politics 00:45:59 – Addressing Racism in the Church Context 00:47:02 – Empathy and Understanding in Racial Discussions The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Primary is so much more than schedules, rolls, and meetings—it's a sacred opportunity to love, lift, and lead like the Savior. In this inspiring interview, we explore how Primary presidencies and leaders can transform everyday administration into meaningful ministry. Michelle Colledge lives in Cedar Hills, Utah with her husband, Rick, and their five children. She owns and coaches at Canyon Gymnastics and loves reading, traveling, and spending time with her family. She graduated from Utah Valley University, served a full-time mission in the North Carolina Raleigh Mission, and has served in various callings including stake Primary president, ward Primary president, and in several Primary and Young Women presidencies. Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Key Insights Building Community: Michelle emphasizes the importance of creating a sense of community within Primary by engaging with children and their families, such as through home visits for birthdays, which fosters personal connections. Perceptive Leadership: Leaders should be observant and responsive to the needs of children, ensuring that every child feels valued and included. This includes recognizing when a child feels overlooked and taking steps to address it. Innovative Programming: The introduction of a stake Primary devotional allowed children to actively participate in leadership roles, such as greeters and speakers, which empowered them and made the event more engaging. Personalized Involvement: Michelle highlights the significance of knowing each child’s name and interests, which helps leaders connect on a deeper level and enhances the overall Primary experience. Flexibility in Leadership: Leaders should be willing to adapt and create new opportunities for service and connection, as demonstrated by the transition from traditional birthday celebrations to personalized home visits during COVID-19. Leadership Applications Foster Personal Connections: Latter-day Saint leaders can implement home visits or personalized notes to recognize children's milestones, enhancing their sense of belonging and importance within the community. Encourage Participation: By inviting children to take on roles in Primary programs, leaders can help them develop confidence and a sense of responsibility, making church activities more meaningful. Be Observant and Responsive: Leaders should regularly assess the dynamics within their Primary classes, looking for ways to support teachers and children, ensuring that everyone feels included and valued in the Primary experience. Highlights 00:04:28 – Transitioning from Ward to Stake Primary Presidency 00:06:04 – Finding Footing as Stake Primary President 00:08:19 – Monthly Presidency Meetings and Activities 00:10:19 – Yearly Primary Activity Planning 00:11:59 – Training for New Primary Presidencies 00:12:52 – Best Practices for Primary Presentations 00:16:25 – Creating a Reverent Atmosphere in Presentations 00:18:56 – Encouraging Children to Write Their Own Parts 00:19:56 – Engaging with Children in Primary 00:20:45 – Personal Connections with Children 00:25:13 – Connecting with Primary Presidencies in the Stake 00:27:11 – Perceiving Needs Like the Savior 00:29:19 – Inviting Children to Serve in Primary 00:34:56 – Organizing a Stake Primary Devotional 00:40:21 – Conclusion and Q&A Session The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Every family has an origin story—and it's not always the one told at holidays. In this episode, Tony explores the fascinating concept of the butterfly effect and how it applies to family systems. From a scientist's obsession with Gila monster saliva that led to Ozempic, to a wrong turn that ignited World War I, small moments can create massive ripples. But what happens when the butterfly in your family isn't an event—it's a person? Through the story of "Uncle Ray," Tony unpacks how one emotionally overwhelmed parent can set patterns that echo for decades, and how family roles—the helper, the peacekeeper, the fixer, the scapegoat—get assigned long before we're even aware of them. You'll learn about the patterns of emotional immaturity (black-and-white thinking, mind reading, magical thinking, and more) and how they show up in everyday family dynamics. Most importantly, Tony shares the hopeful truth: the butterfly effect works both ways. One person's dysfunction can ripple through generations—but so can one person's healing. If you've ever wondered how to break cycles in your own family or show up differently this holiday season, this episode is for you. 00:00 Introduction: Family Dynamics and Roles 01:05 The Butterfly Effect in Families 03:02 Crossover Episode: Emotional Immaturity and Family Systems 04:36 The Butterfly Effect: Scientific Examples 10:02 The Butterfly Effect in Family Systems 14:33 Uncle Ray: The Catalyst of Chaos 23:25 Pathological Kindness: Janet's Role 27:39 Emotional Immaturity: Patterns and Consequences 33:10 Black and White Thinking 33:40 Mind Reading and Assumed Intent 34:28 Difficulty with Accountability 35:39 Emotional Reasoning 36:35 External Validation Dependence 37:58 Magical Thinking 39:03 Managing Other People's Emotions 40:40 The Butterfly Effect in Family Dynamics 41:15 Curiosity and Emotional Maturity 43:28 Reconnecting with Uncle Dave 51:30 The Impact of Family Systems 55:55 The Cost of Emotional Immaturity 58:25 Breaking the Cycle 58:45 Setting Boundaries and Responding Differently 01:02:38 Hope and Creating Positive Ripples Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

What do you do when someone in your family needs drama to feel alive? In this crossover episode, Tony dives deep into the anatomy of emotional immaturity through the story of "Uncle Ray"—a family member whose constant need for conflict, grievance, and the "one-up position" sent shockwaves through an entire family system. Tony breaks down the key patterns of emotional immaturity you'll recognize: black-and-white thinking, assumed intent without curiosity, difficulty with accountability, emotional reasoning ("I feel it, so it must be true"), external validation dependence, magical thinking, and the exhausting game of "whack-a-mole" that comes with trying to have a conversation with someone who's looking for attack surfaces rather than connection. You'll also learn about "pathological kindness"—the breakup-resistant dynamic that keeps enablers locked in relationships with emotionally immature people—and how these patterns get passed down through generations. Tony traces Uncle Ray's patterns back to his mother's divorce and the emotional template that shaped him, showing how one grandmother's pain rippled forward into holiday traditions lost and family relationships fractured. If you have an Uncle Ray in your life, this episode offers clarity: you can't change them, but you can set boundaries, refuse triangulation, grieve the family you wished you had, and become the catalyst for a different kind of ripple in your own family system. 00:00 Introduction: Family Dynamics and Roles 01:05 The Butterfly Effect in Families 03:02 Crossover Episode: Emotional Immaturity and Family Systems 04:36 The Butterfly Effect: Scientific Examples 10:02 The Butterfly Effect in Family Systems 14:33 Uncle Ray: The Catalyst of Chaos 23:25 Pathological Kindness: Janet's Role 27:39 Emotional Immaturity: Patterns and Consequences 33:10 Black and White Thinking 33:40 Mind Reading and Assumed Intent 34:28 Difficulty with Accountability 35:39 Emotional Reasoning 36:35 External Validation Dependence 37:58 Magical Thinking 39:03 Managing Other People's Emotions 40:40 The Butterfly Effect in Family Dynamics 41:15 Curiosity and Emotional Maturity 43:28 Reconnecting with Uncle Dave 51:30 The Impact of Family Systems 55:55 The Cost of Emotional Immaturity 58:25 Breaking the Cycle 58:45 Setting Boundaries and Responding Differently 01:02:38 Hope and Creating Positive Ripples Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Blake Erickson is the co-founder of Scaling.com, a company dedicated to helping entrepreneurs scale bigger and faster than they ever thought possible. He is the co-author of the New York Times best-selling book The Science of Scaling, and a highly sought-after keynote speaker specializing in guiding companies and individuals to achieve rapid growth and seemingly impossible goals. Blake resides in Utah with his amazing wife, Bre, and their two sons. Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links The Science of Scaling: Grow Your Business Bigger and Faster Than You Think Possible Scaling.com/Audiobook The Science of Scaling Your Ward | An Interview with Benjamin Hardy Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights Blake discusses the importance of setting ambitious goals and the principles of effective leadership within the context of Latter-day Saint service. The conversation emphasizes how faith and intentionality can lead to significant results in both personal and church-related endeavors. Key Insights Goal Setting and Faith: Blake shares his experience of setting a seemingly impossible goal of 100 baptisms during his mission, illustrating how faith and ambition can drive success. Identifying Key Indicators: He emphasizes the importance of recognizing patterns and indicators that lead to success, such as focusing on individuals who are genuinely interested in the gospel rather than spreading efforts too thin. The Power of One: The discussion highlights that often, one person can make a significant impact, whether in a business or church setting, by inspiring others and driving collective progress. Less is More: Blake advocates for the idea that achieving goals often requires doing less but with greater focus, rather than simply increasing activity levels. Cultural Dynamics: The conversation touches on the need to challenge existing cultural norms that may hinder progress, encouraging leaders to empower all members to contribute actively. Leadership Applications Setting Clear Goals: Latter-day Saint leaders can adopt Blake’s approach by establishing clear, ambitious goals for their congregations, focusing on what truly matters to drive spiritual growth and engagement. Fostering a Culture of Participation: Leaders should encourage all members to take initiative and share their insights, breaking down barriers that prevent individuals from stepping forward in service. Prioritizing Key Activities: By identifying the most impactful activities and focusing efforts on those, leaders can enhance the effectiveness of their ministries, ensuring that resources are used wisely and results are maximized. 00:03:24 – Blake Erickson’s Mission Experience 00:04:10 – Shifting Focus on Mission Goals 00:05:06 – Learning from Missionary Work 00:06:58 – Identifying Key Indicators for Success 00:08:27 – Setting Goals and Expectations 00:10:18 – The Importance of Commitment 00:12:10 – Recognizing Progress and Indicators 00:14:10 – Communicating with Non-Progressing Individuals 00:15:02 – Applying Business Principles to Church Leadership 00:16:37 – Scaling the Church and Its Impact 00:18:50 – The Gospel as a Solution 00:20:49 – Manifesting Faith in Daily Life 00:21:00 – Expressing Desires to God 00:23:30 – The Importance of Ambition 00:25:32 – Balancing Church Responsibilities 00:26:58 – Navigating Life After the Mission 00:27:09 – Engaging with Elders Quorum Leadership 00:29:04 – Focusing on One Goal in the Ward 00:30:17 – The Power of Less and Different Approaches 00:32:02 – Identifying False Requirements 00:34:15 – The Impact of One Person 00:35:04 – Onboarding Others to a Common Goal 00:37:31 – Building Unity Through Shared Goals 00:38:31 – Cultural Dynamics in Church Leadership The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Kurt Francom, the executive director of Leading Saints, shares his thoughts on the challenges and responsibilities of leading a nonprofit organization within the Latter-day Saint community. He reflects on the need for support, the complexities of church culture, and the importance of individual leadership in building the Kingdom of God. Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links “I'm Not the Gatekeeper, I'm the Welcoming Committee” | An Interview with Kurt Brown Being an Advocate for Those You Lead | An Interview with Robert Ferrell Rallying the Ward Around Sacrament Meeting | A How I Lead Interview with Ryan Webb Getting the Youth to Do Hard Things | A How I Lead Interview with Tanner Pursley Young Men Can Do Hard Things | A How I Lead Interview with Skylar Haws Zion Lab: LeadingSaints.org/Zion Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights Funding Challenges: Kurt discusses the difficulties of securing funding for Leading Saints, emphasizing the need for both small and large donations to sustain the organization's mission. Cultural Issues in the Church: He highlights the complexities of church culture, including the struggles of church leaders and members with faith crises, LGBT issues, and the need for a supportive community. The Role of Individual Leadership: Kurt stresses that effective leadership is crucial for fostering a positive church culture, which can help individuals navigate their faith journeys and challenges. Transformational Experiences: He believes that rather than providing formal training, Leading Saints focuses on creating transformational experiences that empower individuals to lead and make a difference in their communities. Call to Action: Kurt invites listeners to engage with Leading Saints through initiatives like Zion Lab and becoming Zion Builders, emphasizing the collective effort needed to build Zion. Leadership Applications Encouraging Community Support: Latter-day Saint leaders can foster a culture of support by actively seeking and encouraging contributions from their communities, similar to how fans rally around a sports team. Promoting Individual Initiative: Leaders should empower members to take initiative in their callings and personal faith journeys, recognizing that everyone can contribute to building the Kingdom of God, regardless of their formal position. Creating Transformational Opportunities: Leaders can focus on providing experiences that inspire and uplift their congregations, rather than relying solely on traditional training methods, to cultivate a more engaged and resilient community. 00:01:08 – The Journey of Leading Saints 00:02:25 – The Role of an Executive Director 00:04:14 – The Need for Funding 00:05:57 – Articulating the Problem in Church Leadership 00:07:34 – The Complexity of Church Culture 00:09:11 – The Importance of Individual Action 00:10:51 – The Law of Consecration 00:12:19 – Building Zion and Community 00:14:10 – Connection to BYU Football 00:16:20 – Community Support for Leaders 00:17:01 – The Call for Support and Funding 00:19:14 – The Role of Leading Saints in Cultural Issues 00:21:23 – Transformational Experiences and Leadership 00:23:12 – Call to Action: Join the Zion Lab 00:25:00 – Becoming a Zion Builder 00:26:25 – Sponsoring Others and Seeking Larger Donors 00:29:11 – The Impact of Positive Culture in the Church The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Is there such a thing as a "narcissistic collapse" — or is it just another trend designed to keep you scrolling at 2 AM looking for answers to why your relationship is the number one source of your frustration? Tony answers an email from a listener who keeps seeing videos promising that 2025 will be "the year of the narcissistic collapse"—the moment when the mask finally falls off, and everyone sees the truth. Cosmic justice would finally be served, and he would immediately feel a sense of relief, and either his partner would now become the person he'd always dreamed of, or he would undoubtedly find his soulmate within minutes after the collapse. And they would ride off into the sunset together. Tony breaks down the email line by line and unpacks everything from emotional immaturity and projection, the danger of couples therapy with the narcissist, to the continuing trap of trying to give your partner an epiphany. But the real conversation is about what narcissistic collapse actually is — and more importantly, what it isn't. Here's what the internet won't tell you: A narcissistic collapse isn't a sign of their progress. It's a sign of yours. They're not collapsing because they've changed. They're collapsing because you have — and the system that kept them emotionally afloat is breaking down. In this episode, you'll learn: - Why asking "Am I the narcissist?" almost always means you're not - The difference between reactive abuse and actual instability — and why therapists often get it wrong - How your vulnerability becomes an "attack surface" in emotionally immature relationships - What the research actually says about narcissistic injury, decompensation, and collapse - Why your growth equals their loss of control — and your calm equals their panic - David Schnarch's theory on differentiation, and his Four Points of Balance that make real change possible - How to stop selling yourself on a destination of hope and start building the vehicle that will truly take you where you need to go If you've ever scrolled through narcissism content at 2 AM looking for answers, this one's for you. 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:38 Listener Email: A Muse for Self-Discovery 01:00 Defining a Muse in Everyday Life 01:55 Listener's Struggle: Emotional Immaturity and Narcissism 02:28 The Narcissistic Collapse: Fact or Fiction? 02:51 Listener's Background and Marriage Issues 03:30 Therapy and Self-Doubt 03:51 Emotional Immaturity's Impact on Vulnerability 04:06 The Epiphany Trap and Anxious Attachment 04:35 Couples Therapy Pitfalls 05:18 The Role of Social Media in Coping 19:45 Reactive Abuse and Emotional Safety 28:01 The 5-4-3-2-1 Countdown Technique 29:09 Understanding Narcissistic Collapse 30:08 The Origin and Impact of Narcissistic Injury 30:39 The Role of Boundaries in Narcissistic Collapse 31:21 Emotional Immaturity and Defensive Structures 36:13 The Process of Differentiation 37:51 The Importance of Self-Validation 38:26 The Narcissistic Collapse as a Sign of Your Progress 44:10 Selling the Destination vs. Building the Vehicle 47:12 The Reality of Transformation and Healing 52:10 Final Thoughts and Encouragement Women navigating emotionally immature relationships: come join Tony's private women's Facebook group. Men beginning your own emotional maturity journey: check out the Men's Emotional Architects group. Links in the show notes. Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

This podcast episode features part of a Zion Lab live stream conversation with a group of ward and stake leaders discussing the purpose and execution of ward conferences. The conversation emphasizes the need for meaningful engagement and feedback from members to enhance the effectiveness of these conferences. Watch and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links General Handbook 29.2.3 Ward Conference Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights 04:26 – Overcoming Traditional Approaches 06:08 – Gathering Feedback from Members 08:21 – Creating Meaningful Experiences 10:00 – Handbook Guidelines for Ward Conferences 12:45 – Shifting Focus from Burden to Blessing 14:09 – Unique Approaches to Ward Conferences 15:37 – Scheduling Ward Conferences Effectively 18:21 – Addressing Local Needs vs. Stake Focus 20:01 – The Purpose of Ward Conferences 24:40 – The Distance Between Stake and Ward 26:01 – Building Positive Stake-Ward Relationships Key Insights Purpose of Ward Conferences: Leaders reflect on the importance of ward conferences as a means to unify the ward, provide spiritual nourishment, and address local needs, rather than merely fulfilling a procedural requirement. Feedback Mechanisms: The discussion highlights the necessity of gathering feedback from both leaders and general members to assess the value of ward conferences and identify areas for improvement. Innovative Approaches: Leaders share successful strategies, such as organizing activities leading up to the conference and involving youth, to create a more engaging and meaningful experience for the congregation. Avoiding Tradition for Tradition’s Sake: The conversation stresses the importance of not falling into the trap of maintaining outdated practices simply because “it’s always been done that way.” Leaders are encouraged to innovate and adapt based on current ward needs. Collaboration and Council: The value of collaborative meetings among stake and ward leaders is emphasized, allowing for shared insights and collective problem-solving regarding ward needs and challenges. Leadership Applications Solicit Member Feedback: Leaders should actively seek input from ward members about their experiences and expectations for ward conferences, ensuring that the events are tailored to meet their needs. Create Engaging Experiences: By planning activities and discussions that involve the entire ward community, leaders can foster a sense of belonging and investment in the ward’s culture and mission. Embrace Flexibility: Leaders are encouraged to approach ward conferences with an open mind, willing to adapt formats and themes based on the unique dynamics of their wards, rather than adhering strictly to traditional methods. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Have you ever found yourself calculating what to say when your partner is upset—choosing words to manage their emotions rather than speaking your truth? In this episode, Tony shares the breakthrough story of a couple navigating financial betrayal and the exhausting cycle of emotional management that kept them stuck. Through Mark and Sarah's journey from reactive patterns to authentic connection, you'll discover the five elements of differentiated intimacy and why trying to make your partner "okay" with uncomfortable truths actually prevents genuine healing. Tony breaks down how anxious and avoidant attachment styles create complementary patterns of pursuit and withdrawal, and why both strategies are really about the same thing: controlling the other person's emotional state rather than being present to it. BONUS SECTION: Tony responds to overwhelming listener feedback from his recent co-regulation series by explaining the neuroscience behind Mark and Sarah's breakthrough. Learn about Ed Tronick's famous "Still Face Experiment," how childhood co-regulation failures create adult attachment wounds, and why healing requires nervous system-level change—not just better communication skills. Perfect for you if: You're exhausted from walking on eggshells or constantly pursuing connection You recognize yourself in anxious or avoidant attachment patterns You're recovering from betrayal (financial, emotional, or otherwise) in your relationship You want to understand why the same conflicts keep repeating You're curious about the neuroscience of relationship healing Topics covered: The difference between managing emotions and being present to them Five elements of differentiated intimacy in action How to hold incompatible truths without relationship collapse The anxious-avoidant trap explained through nervous system dynamics Co-regulation: from childhood patterns to adult healing Why secure attachment can be earned at any age 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:37 Imagining Relationship Scenarios 02:56 Understanding Emotional Management 03:56 Exploring Co-Regulation in Relationships 07:33 Case Study: Mark and Sarah's Financial Infidelity 13:54 Breakthrough Session: Honest Communication 21:45 The Real Work of Differentiation 23:22 Mark and Sarah's Emotional Breakthrough 24:38 Key Lessons from the Breakthrough 25:34 Managing Emotions vs. Genuine Intimacy 28:06 Questions for Self-Reflection 29:29 Understanding Co-Regulation 30:53 The Still Face Experiment 33:36 Mark and Sarah's Attachment Styles 35:54 The Anxious-Avoidant Trap 37:11 Breakthrough in Therapy 40:38 The Role of Co-Regulation in Healing 41:39 Neuroplasticity and Secure Attachment 45:48 Final Thoughts and Resources Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's cornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

If you've ever been in a relationship with emotional immaturity or narcissistic behavior, you know the truth: Healing doesn't come with a map. Emotional safety doesn't come with instructions. And waking up is rarely a straight line. In this 10th “Death by 1,000 Cuts” episode, Tony introduces The Ten Emotional Commandments — the patterns, boundaries, and insights that so many people wish they had years earlier. These commandments aren't rules you obey; they're survival skills you learn. They're the shifts that help you understand your emotions, trust your gut, stop overexplaining, and finally step out of the chaos you didn't choose. This episode is validating, grounding, sometimes funny, sometimes painful — and deeply relatable. With listener-submitted “cuts,” real-world examples, and a gentle breakdown of what healing actually looks like, Tony helps you recognize the patterns AND understand how to break them. If you've felt alone in your confusion, in your exhaustion, or in the emotional whiplash of trying to make sense of someone else's immaturity — this episode is for you. 00:00 Introduction and Series Overview 00:37 The Power of Your Stories 01:20 A Survivor's Poem 04:42 The 10 Emotional Commandments 08:54 Commandment 1: Raise Your Emotional Baseline 15:59 Commandment 2: Get Your PhD in Gaslighting 21:53 Commandment 3: Drop the Rope of Emotional Tug of War 27:33 Commandment 4: Set Boundaries and Mean Them 32:17 Stop Searching for the Perfect Words 33:01 Examples of False Promises and Manipulation 33:52 Understanding Emotional Immaturity 36:41 Limiting Your Attack Surface 40:13 Recognizing Projection 44:45 Honoring Your Inner Dialogue 48:37 Trusting Your Gut and Emotions 53:07 Change is Not Linear 57:51 Final Thoughts and Resources Women navigating emotionally immature relationships: come join Tony's private women's Facebook group. Men beginning your own emotional maturity journey: check out the Men's Emotional Architects group. Links in the show notes. Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

In Part 2 of Why You Fell for Your Partner (and Why You Keep Fighting Them), Tony Overbay, LMFT, continues the story of Jack and Jill — a fictional couple built from hundreds of real couples he's worked with in therapy. But this time, the story shifts. What happens when children grow up with emotional safety, repair, and consistency? What does love look like when it's modeled, not managed — when connection feels safe instead of chaotic? Tony explores how secure attachment is formed through co-regulation, how parents teach emotional safety through presence instead of fixing, and how those lessons echo into adulthood — shaping how we love, argue, and connect. Through rich storytelling and neuroscience-backed insights, you'll learn: • What healthy co-regulation sounds like in real life • Why conflict in secure relationships feels safe, not scary • How consistent emotional repair rewires the brain • Why secure partners are drawn to emotional availability, not intensity • How “earned secure attachment” and therapy can break old patterns This episode isn't just a look at what healthy relationships sound like — it's a roadmap for how to build one. Because your past might explain your patterns, but it doesn't have to define your future. 00:00 Introduction and Recap of Part One 01:23 Understanding Attachment Styles 02:25 Exploring Jill's Childhood 03:16 Exploring Jack's Childhood 04:58 Healthy Emotional Regulation 06:44 Jill's Healthy Emotional Development 21:10 Jack's Healthy Emotional Development 31:28 Jack and Jill's Relationship Dynamics 35:04 Healthy Communication in Relationships 36:06 The Importance of Secure Attachment 37:08 Navigating Stress and Boundaries 40:06 Conflict Resolution and Compromise 41:43 Building a Secure Relationship 52:55 The Role of Childhood in Adult Relationships 01:02:29 The Power of Therapy and Self-Work 01:08:52 Final Thoughts on Relationship Growth Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's cornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

Have you ever remembered something so vividly that it feels etched into your bones — only to have someone look at you blankly and say, “That never happened”? Have you ever started to wonder if maybe you're the one who's losing your mind? If so, you know the disorienting pain of questioning your own reality. In this episode, Tony Overbay, LMFT, unpacks what happens when your memory becomes the battleground in a relationship with an emotionally immature or narcissistic partner. When every disagreement seems to rewrite history, your sense of truth can start to unravel — not because you're broken, but because your brain and body have been conditioned to survive confusion. Tony explores how: Cognitive dissonance makes you doubt what you know is true Gaslighting and confabulation distort shared reality The false self uses denial to avoid shame Chronic emotional stress rewires your nervous system and memory Tools like gray rocking and self-regulation help you reclaim peace Through clinical examples, evidence-based research, and hope, this episode reveals how to rebuild trust in your own perception — and why remembering that you were there is the first step toward healing. Because waking up isn't about convincing anyone else what happened, it's about remembering: you were right to trust yourself all along. 00:00 Introduction: The Fallibility of Memory 00:58 Healthy vs. Unhealthy Relationships 02:15 The Reality Police: Types of Memory Issues 03:14 Emotional Immaturity and Narcissism 04:12 The Impact of Chronic Invalidation 05:33 Welcome to Waking Up to Narcissism 07:00 Pam and Jim: A Story of Emotional Distortion 11:38 Cognitive Dissonance and Emotional Survival 21:06 Understanding Gaslighting 24:33 A Heartbreaking Misunderstanding 25:58 The Power of Gaslighting 26:13 Confabulation: Filling Memory Gaps 27:08 The Patchwork Quilt of Self-Image 28:18 The Cost of Emotional Immaturity 32:25 Interpersonal Neurobiology and Co-Regulation 35:37 The Impact of Chronic Stress 37:15 Rewiring Your Brain for Peace 45:29 Gray Rocking: A Strategy for Self-Protection 48:20 Reclaiming Your Sense of Calm Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

Prior to admitting his addiction, Joshua was a prominent magazine publisher, award-winning journalist, film festival founder, and politician in central Maine. Early on, he recognized recovery was far more than just quitting the negative behavior of his addiction. It was about answering the questions: "Why did I become an addict, how did that make me the person I am today, what must I do to become the person I was truly born to be?"In 2017, Joshua launched ThatCornCoach.com. He has also contributed articles about recovery to TheFix.com and Recovery Today magazine.His most recent book, I am Reading This Book About Porn Addiction for a Friend, introduces readers who are struggling in early recovery, or looking for more information about a suspected addiction. It includes symptoms, stories of addicts Shea have worked with, and a series of activities to personalize the process.His third book, Porn, and the Pandemic: How Three Months in 2020 Changed Everything was released in July 2020. It looks at how the world of online pornography changed overnight during the COVID-19 Coronavirus outbreak with analysis and interviews from current and former pornography addicts, "cam models" who use sites like Chaturbate and OnlyFans, and a bevy of mental health and addiction professionals. Online pornography exploded during the pandemic right under most people's noses.He is also the author of The Addiction Nobody Will Talk About: How I Let My Pornography Addiction Hurt People and Destroy Relationships (2018), a memoir about his descent during the final days of his addiction and He is a Porn Addict…Now What? (2019) written for female partners of male porn addicts who are grappling with the revelation their loved one is an addict. It was co-written with Tony Overbay, LMFT.Shea currently makes his full-time living as a certified pornography addict and certified betrayal trauma coach.Shea has given more interviews about pornography addiction than anybody on Earth since 2018. He has appeared on over 350 podcasts, television and radio shows using his personal story to promote the ideas that porn addiction spans all demographics and those with a problem should seek help before it is too late, as it became in his case.Sober since early 2014, Joshua still lives in Central Maine with his wife and two children, four dogs and eight cats. https://thatcorncoach.com/http://www.yourlotandparcel.org

What if the way you love — and the way you fight — were both written long before you met your partner? Tony Overbay, LMFT, reveals how your nervous system learned to react to love, conflict, and vulnerability decades before your first date — and how those patterns still show up today. In this episode, Tony introduces Jack and Jill, a fictional couple built from hundreds of real couples he has worked with over 20 years in therapy. Their story illustrates two common attachment patterns — one anxious, one avoidant — and how they collide in the classic pursue-withdraw cycle that leaves both partners feeling unseen, unsafe, and alone. Through relatable narrative, clinical insight, and real-world examples, you'll learn: • How childhood emotional experiences shape relationship expectations • Why your partner's reactions can feel like rejection (even when they aren't) • How anxiety and withdrawal both come from trying to feel safe • Why repeating the same argument isn't failure — it's a nervous system loop • What has to change before communication skills even matter This episode will help you finally understand why you fell for your partner… and why the very things that drew you together now drive you apart. Whether you identify with Jill's pursuit for reassurance or Jack's retreat into silence, you'll start to see the deeper story inside your relationship — the one your body has been telling long before you could put it into words. Stay tuned for Part 2, where Tony will explore an entirely different path — one where emotional safety is modeled, repair is possible, and connection doesn't have to hurt. 00:00 Introduction: The Hidden Stories of Our Reactions 00:41 Understanding Nervous System Responses 02:01 The Impact of Childhood Experiences 02:34 Modern Relationships and Nervous System Patterns 04:08 Meet Jack and Jill: A Case Study 09:09 Jill's Story: A Childhood of Emotional Instability 13:14 Jack's Story: Learning to Withdraw 16:43 Jack and Jill's Relationship Dynamics 21:18 The Pursue-Withdraw Cycle 27:23 Paths to Healing and Connection 29:44 Conclusion: Moving Forward with Awareness Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's cornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

Skyler Wilcox is originally from Logan, Utah and is the senior administrator with the Especially For Youth (EFY) program. He has a bachelors degree in Broadcast Journalism and a masters degree in Public Administration, both from Brigham Young University. After working as a counselor and coordinator for four summers, Skyler joined the EFY team full time in 2020. When not at work, he enjoys cheering on his favorite sports teams, including the Jazz, Cougars, Cowboys, and Mammoth. He also loves musical theater and performing on stage. Skyler married his sweetheart Jenny and they have adopted four children through foster care. Previous Church callings include ward clerk, assistant executive secretary, youth Sunday School teacher, and elders quorum secretary. Links EFY: Especially for Youth Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights Coming soon The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Ever wonder why your partner's innocent behavior feels like a personal attack? What if the stories you're telling yourself about their intentions say more about you than about them? In this eye-opening episode, therapist Tony Overbay, LMFT, explores projection—the unconscious habit of attributing our own thoughts, feelings, and motivations to others. Through real stories from his practice, including a couple's argument over a bag of garbage and a wife accused of infidelity she never considered, Tony reveals how we're all swimming in "water" we don't even know exists. Discover why the things that trigger you most intensely often reflect your own unresolved struggles, learn the psychology behind "the lady doth protest too much," and understand how projection creates conflict in even the healthiest relationships. Tony shares practical tools for recognizing when you're projecting, explains the neuroscience behind why our brains do this, and offers actionable steps for breaking free from automatic interpretations that damage connection. What you'll learn: The difference between observation and judgment (and why it matters). How to recognize when you're projecting your own experience onto your partner. Why intense reactions are usually about you, not them. The connection between childhood survival strategies and adult projection. David Foster Wallace's "This Is Water" and what it teaches us about awareness. (You can read the full transcript here https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/) Real examples of projection in everyday relationships and public life. Three key takeaways you can use immediately to transform your communication. If you've ever thought "they should have known that would hurt me" or "they obviously did that on purpose," this episode will fundamentally change how you see yourself, your partner, and your conflicts. Because once you see the water you're swimming in, you can't unsee it—and that's where real growth begins. Perfect for: individuals in a relationship, those struggling with recurring conflicts, those interested in emotional maturity and self-awareness, and anyone seeking to understand the psychology behind their strongest reactions. 00:00 Introduction and Overview 00:44 Understanding Projection 01:36 Story Time: Real-Life Examples of Projection 06:06 Defining Projection 07:34 Historical Context and Theories of Projection 08:46 Modern Psychology and Projection 09:04 Integrating the Shadow 25:29 Projection in Everyday Life 30:48 Uncovering Hidden Struggles 31:49 The Defense Mechanism of Projection 34:18 Therapeutic Breakthroughs 37:34 Practical Examples of Projection 41:11 Understanding Our Default Settings 47:07 The Power of Curiosity and Compassion 52:59 Final Thoughts on Projection Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

Do you ever feel like no matter how much you explain yourself, your words just get turned against you? In this episode of Waking Up to Narcissism, Tony Overbay, LMFT, breaks down why explanations don't lead to understanding with a narcissist—or with anyone who is deeply emotionally immature. Instead, they become what Tony calls an “attack surface”: the very fuel that allows the narcissist to twist, criticize, or position themselves as the victim. Through a painfully familiar story of a wife trying to share her day and a husband who withdraws into silence, Tony unpacks: Why silence is a weapon for the narcissist—and why it spikes anxiety for the pathologically kind partner How emotionally immature people thrive on friction and conflict rather than true connection The cycle of narcissistic supply (idealization, devaluation, and discard) and how it shows up in daily interactions The difference between secure attachment and antagonistic attachment Five rules for protecting yourself and reducing “attack surfaces” in conversations If you've ever found yourself over-explaining, apologizing for things that weren't your fault, or walking on eggshells to avoid conflict, this episode will help you recognize the patterns, reclaim your emotional energy, and begin to shift the dynamic. Your kindness is a gift—but when explanations only make things worse, it's time to understand why. 00:00 Introduction and Acknowledgements 00:52 Understanding Substack and Blogging 02:11 Disclaimer and Episode Overview 02:47 Narcissism in Relationships 07:25 The Real-Life Story Begins 11:39 Analyzing the Narcissistic Behavior 19:13 Secure Attachment vs. Narcissistic Attachment 25:58 The Concept of Attack Surface 35:18 The Silent Treatment: A Narcissist's Weapon 35:51 The Parasitic Dynamic in Narcissistic Relationships 39:20 The Narcissistic Supply Cycle 43:51 Codependency and Pathological Kindness 51:41 Strategies for Dealing with Narcissists 56:05 Breaking the Cycle: Reclaiming Your Power 01:01:32 The Importance of Documentation 01:07:57 Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

What happens when the person who usually has the answers finds himself sitting in the unknown? In this deeply personal episode, licensed marriage and family therapist Tony Overbay shares his raw, honest experience of losing his mother - not as a clinician offering guidance, but as a son navigating grief for the first time. Tony opens with a touching story about his mom's lifelong belief that he was a "real doctor," leading to an unexpectedly profound moment in the ICU. He then sits down with Q&A Files co-host Trisha Jamison for an unfiltered conversation about what it's really like when the helper becomes the one who needs help. This isn't a clinical discussion about the stages of grief - it's a human exploration of sitting bedside for four days, the humor that emerges in dark moments, the spiritual experiences you hope for but might not get, and why "let me know if you need anything" might not be as helpful as we think. Whether you're processing your own loss, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about what happens when life flips the script on a mental health professional, this conversation offers something real. It's messy, it's honest, and it's ultimately about being human enough to sit with the questions when you don't have all the answers. Topics covered: Grief processing, end-of-life care, family dynamics, therapeutic insights, humor as coping mechanism, supporting others in loss, acceptance and commitment therapy in practice. Content note: This episode contains frank discussions about death, dying, and the physical aspects of end-of-life care. 00:00 Introduction and Announcements 02:25 Personal Loss: The Passing of My Mom 03:44 Understanding the Role of a Therapist 06:05 A Story of Misunderstanding: My Mom Thought I Was a Doctor 15:10 A Therapist's Perspective on Grief 17:58 Conversation with Tricia Jameson: Grief and Grace 34:30 Exploring the Nature of Memory 35:54 Humor as a Coping Mechanism 38:59 Seeking Spiritual Experiences 42:07 Navigating Grief and Loss 48:26 Reflecting on Personal Growth 52:01 Supporting Others Through Grief 58:49 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

What happens when the person who usually has the answers finds himself sitting in the unknown? In this deeply personal episode, licensed marriage and family therapist Tony Overbay shares his raw, honest experience of losing his mother - not as a clinician offering guidance, but as a son navigating grief for the first time. Tony opens with a touching story about his mom's lifelong belief that he was a "real doctor," leading to an unexpectedly profound moment in the ICU. He then sits down with Q&A Files co-host Trisha Jamison for an unfiltered conversation about what it's really like when the helper becomes the one who needs help. This isn't a clinical discussion about the stages of grief - it's a human exploration of sitting bedside for four days, the humor that emerges in dark moments, the spiritual experiences you hope for but might not get, and why "let me know if you need anything" might not be as helpful as we think. Whether you're processing your own loss, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about what happens when life flips the script on a mental health professional, this conversation offers something real. It's messy, it's honest, and it's ultimately about being human enough to sit with the questions when you don't have all the answers. Topics covered: Grief processing, end-of-life care, family dynamics, therapeutic insights, humor as coping mechanism, supporting others in loss, acceptance and commitment therapy in practice. Content note: This episode contains frank discussions about death, dying, and the physical aspects of end-of-life care. 00:00 Introduction and Announcements 02:25 Personal Loss: The Passing of My Mom 03:44 Understanding the Role of a Therapist 06:05 A Story of Misunderstanding: My Mom Thought I Was a Doctor 15:10 A Therapist's Perspective on Grief 17:58 Conversation with Tricia Jameson: Grief and Grace 34:30 Exploring the Nature of Memory 35:54 Humor as a Coping Mechanism 38:59 Seeking Spiritual Experiences 42:07 Navigating Grief and Loss 48:26 Reflecting on Personal Growth 52:01 Supporting Others Through Grief 58:49 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

In this podcast episode, Kurt Francom and Dan Duckworth discuss the importance of addressing community tragedies within Latter-day Saint congregations. They explore how leaders can create spaces for healing and connection during difficult times, emphasizing the role of vulnerability and unity in fostering a supportive church environment. Dan Duckworth speaks, teaches, and writes on leadership, power, and systemic change. His forthcoming book, The Leader in Chains (spring 2026), challenges conventional ideas and calls for a radical rethinking of leadership—and how it is developed. Links Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Overview Perception of Community Needs: Leaders should be attuned to the emotional climate of their congregations, recognizing when community tragedies impact members. This awareness can guide appropriate responses. Risk of Vulnerability: Addressing difficult topics in church settings can feel risky, but it is essential for fostering genuine connections and healing. Leaders should embrace this risk to create a supportive environment. Purpose of Church: The church serves not only as a place for learning doctrine but also as a community for healing and support. Engaging in open discussions about current events can strengthen faith and unity. Creating Safe Spaces: Leaders can facilitate discussions that allow members to express their feelings and experiences, promoting emotional processing and community bonding. Driving the Hope Train: Leaders should focus on instilling hope and directing conversations toward Christ's teachings, using scriptural stories to provide comfort and guidance during challenging times. Leadership Applications Fostering Open Dialogue: Leaders can initiate conversations about current events or tragedies, encouraging members to share their feelings and experiences. This can be done through structured discussions or informal check-ins. Building Trust and Safety: By consistently creating a culture of vulnerability and support, leaders can ensure that members feel safe to express their emotions and seek help when needed. Integrating Healing into Meetings: Leaders can incorporate discussions of community challenges into regular meetings, ensuring that spiritual teachings are connected to real-life experiences, thus reinforcing the church's role as a healing community. Highlights 06:16 - Institutional vs. Leadership Responses 08:13 - Personal Experience of Grief 10:10 - The Purpose of Church in Times of Crisis 12:32 - The Role of Perception in Leadership 14:01 - A Personal Story of Compassion 16:17 - The Risk of Addressing Difficult Topics 17:41 - The Importance of Community Healing 19:12 - Audience Engagement and Reactions 20:00 - Navigating Political Sensitivities 22:08 - Creating a Safe Space for Discussion 23:37 - The Role of Vulnerability in Unity 25:32 - Addressing the Fear of Group Therapy 27:30 - Driving the Hope Train 30:06 - Preparing the Elders Quorum for Discussion 31:15 - The Impact of Leadership Culture 33:11 - Fulfilling the Purpose of Elders Quorum 38:14 - The Value of Risk in Leadership 40:00 - Living Life Together in Church 42:43 - The Dangers of Hypocrisy in Worship The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B.

Would you rather be liked—or be true to yourself? It sounds simple, but what happens when staying true to your values could cost you your job, your marriage, your faith community, or your friendships? In today's episode of The Virtual Couch Presents, Tony Overbay, LMFT, dives into the real difference between character (the traits others see in us) and integrity (the alignment of our actions with our deepest values). Through stories pulled from the legal world, faith communities, workplaces, friendships, and even the messy reality of parenting, Tony explores how external validation can pull us away from who we are—and how emotional maturity, self-determination, and values-based living bring us back home to ourselves. You'll hear about billion-dollar law firms making impossible choices, parents navigating the tension between community expectations and their child's authenticity, and why even a heated debate over pizza sauce in a Hot Pocket can reveal where integrity really lives. At the end of the episode, stay tuned for a short guided meditation to help you connect with your own values and discover how to live them out with integrity. And don't miss the chance to grab a cheat sheet of this episode and Tony's Values Exercise, a simple but powerful tool to help you start discovering who you truly are. This is not about guilt or shame. It's about curiosity, growth, and finding the courage to live with integrity—even when it costs you. 00:00 Welcome to the Virtual Couch 00:50 The Dilemma: Being Liked vs. Being True to Yourself 01:36 Exploring Character and Integrity 02:58 Upcoming Cruise and Workshops 04:04 Character vs. Integrity: Real-Life Examples 14:14 The Legal World: Integrity Under Pressure 33:21 Self-Determination Theory and Emotional Maturity 35:53 Intrinsic Motivation and Self-Determination Theory 36:56 Autonomy, Competence, and Relatedness 37:42 External Rewards and Burnout 38:39 Real-World Examples of Integrity 39:42 Sophia's Journey to Integrity 42:16 Daniel's Struggle with Values 45:12 Integrity in Different Contexts 58:06 Faith and Integrity 01:06:15 Guided Meditation: Coming Home to Your Values Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

Would you rather be liked—or be true to yourself? It sounds simple, but what happens when staying true to your values could cost you your job, your marriage, your faith community, or your friendships? In today's episode of The Virtual Couch Presents, Tony Overbay, LMFT, dives into the real difference between character (the traits others see in us) and integrity (the alignment of our actions with our deepest values). Through stories pulled from the legal world, faith communities, workplaces, friendships, and even the messy reality of parenting, Tony explores how external validation can pull us away from who we are—and how emotional maturity, self-determination, and values-based living bring us back home to ourselves. You'll hear about billion-dollar law firms making impossible choices, parents navigating the tension between community expectations and their child's authenticity, and why even a heated debate over pizza sauce in a Hot Pocket can reveal where integrity really lives. At the end of the episode, stay tuned for a short guided meditation to help you connect with your own values and discover how to live them out with integrity. And don't miss the chance to grab a cheat sheet of this episode and Tony's Values Exercise, a simple but powerful tool to help you start discovering who you truly are. This is not about guilt or shame. It's about curiosity, growth, and finding the courage to live with integrity—even when it costs you. 00:00 Welcome to the Virtual Couch 00:50 The Dilemma: Being Liked vs. Being True to Yourself 01:36 Exploring Character and Integrity 02:58 Upcoming Cruise and Workshops 04:04 Character vs. Integrity: Real-Life Examples 14:14 The Legal World: Integrity Under Pressure 33:21 Self-Determination Theory and Emotional Maturity 35:53 Intrinsic Motivation and Self-Determination Theory 36:56 Autonomy, Competence, and Relatedness 37:42 External Rewards and Burnout 38:39 Real-World Examples of Integrity 39:42 Sophia's Journey to Integrity 42:16 Daniel's Struggle with Values 45:12 Integrity in Different Contexts 58:06 Faith and Integrity 01:06:15 Guided Meditation: Coming Home to Your Values Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. To learn more about Tony's upcoming re-release of the Magnetic Marriage course, his Pathback Recovery course, and more, sign up for his newsletter through the link at https://linktr.ee/virtualcouch Available NOW: Tony's "Magnetic Marriage Mini-Course" is only $25. https://magneticmarriage.mykajabi.com/magnetic-marriage-mini-course You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com

Tony and his daughter Mackie (@beautybymackie) catch up on a lot of life. Since the last time they hit record, Mackie has navigated big career shifts, health challenges, and new adventures. Tony has faced major surgery and the loss of his mom (Mackie's grandmother). Together, they dive into the messy, uncomfortable, and often hilarious realities of change — why our brains resist it, why it feels so daunting in the moment, and why it's actually the engine of growth. From dad jokes about Gen Z slang to real talk about autoimmune diagnoses, resilience, and reinventing yourself, this conversation is equal parts laughter, honesty, and insight. If you're navigating your own season of change, this episode will remind you that discomfort isn't just survivable — it's what shapes who you're becoming. Follow Mackie on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/beautybymackie or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@beautybymackie or subscribe to "The Mind, The Mirror and Me" wherever you listen to podcasts! 00:00 Welcome and Introduction 00:30 The Struggle with Change 02:16 Introducing Mackey McKinley 02:44 Life Updates and Major Changes 02:58 The Humor in Processing Change 03:25 Practical Gifts and Life Lessons 03:32 Social Media and Upcoming Events 04:10 Conversation with Mackey Begins 04:17 Casual Banter and Podcast Revival 05:56 Mackey's Career Journey 10:17 Health Challenges and Lifestyle Changes 28:21 The Concept of Healthy Ego 30:49 Defensive Ego and Feelings of Inferiority 31:10 Insecurity in Professional Settings 31:18 Hypersensitivity and Narcissistic Traits 32:01 Building a Healthy Ego 32:39 Passion vs. Obligation in Work 34:02 Personal Growth and Change 36:20 The Fear of the Unknown 38:37 The Illusion of Control 39:19 Coping with Discomfort and Growth 40:12 Therapy and Emotional Support 49:13 The Power of Pausing and Acceptance 54:13 Mackey's Wellness Journey 56:46 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Jeff Burningham grew up in Spokane, Washington, served a mission in Charlotte, North Carolina, and attended Brigham Young University. A serial entrepreneur, Jeff has founded multiple companies in real estate technology and venture capital. He has also served in various church callings, including as a bishop and in a stake presidency. Jeff is a father of four, a proud grandfather, and the author of The Last Book Written by a Human: Becoming Wise in the Age of AI. Links The Last Book Written by a Human: Becoming Wise in the Age of AI Stepping Up to Leadership Opportunities | An Interview with Jeff Burningham Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights Jeff discusses his book, emphasizing the importance of human wisdom in a world increasingly dominated by artificial intelligence. He argues that while AI can enhance efficiency, it cannot replace the essence of human connection and community. He encourages church leaders to focus on being rather than doing, fostering genuine relationships within their congregations. The conversation explores how disruption, reflection, transformation, and evolution shape both personal and collective journeys in the age of AI. Jeff highlights the need for leaders to embrace change with love and grace, ultimately guiding their communities toward deeper connections and understanding. 00:03:49 - Jeff's Background Jeff shares his personal background, including his entrepreneurial journey and church leadership experience. 00:06:17 - The Essence of the Book Exploration of the book's focus on human wisdom versus AI capabilities. 00:07:45 - The Risks of AI Discussion on the potential dangers of outsourcing humanity to machines. 00:09:56 - AI and Religion The impact of AI on religious practices and the importance of human connection. 00:10:14 - Disruption, Reflection, Transformation, Evolution Overview of the book's structure and the significance of each section. 00:12:02 - Reforming Religion in the Age of AI The need for religious organizations to adapt to the challenges posed by AI. 00:14:11 - Community Experience in Sunday School Reframing the Sunday School experience as a community-building opportunity rather than just knowledge transfer. 00:16:00 - The Importance of Human Connection Emphasizing the need for genuine human interaction in a technology-driven world. 00:21:07 - Bringing Being into Doing Encouragement for leaders to focus on their presence and authenticity in interactions. 00:23:16 - The Role of AI in Church Discussion on how AI can be used as a tool without replacing the human element in lessons and talks. 00:30:29 - Pattern Breakers The significance of individuals who challenge norms and encourage growth within communities. 00:34:50 - Disruption as a Constant Understanding disruption as a natural part of life and leadership. 00:40:10 - Reflection After Disruption The importance of taking time to reflect on disruptions and learn from them. 00:46:22 - Transformation Through Reflection How reflection leads to personal and collective transformation in the face of change. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman,

Matt Miles is a Political Science professor at Brigham Young University–Idaho and a co-host of This Week in Mormons and the Latter-day Lens podcasts. Links Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Religious Identity in US Politics The Latter-day Lens podcast This Week in Mormons Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights This discussion centers on a research-backed framework for measuring religiosity, moving beyond traditional metrics to focus on the transformative effects of faith on an individual's life. Beyond the Three B's: Traditionally, religiosity has been measured by "the three B's": Behavior (what a person does), Belonging (their social connections), and Belief (their convictions). Matt Miles argues that these are insufficient measures of genuine faith. The Fourth B: Becoming: A more accurate measure is "religious becoming"—the extent to which a person has been transformed by their faith. This concept suggests that true religiosity is not just about actions but about internal change. Four Aspects of Transformation: Based on his research, Miles identified four universal traits that indicate "religious becoming": Transcendence (a connection to the divine), Humanity (love for others), Justice (a belief in fairness), and Temperance (humility). Faith and Political Tolerance: The research shows that individuals with higher scores in "religious becoming" are more politically tolerant. They are less likely to view those with opposing political views as a threat, in contrast to those whose faith is measured only by the "three B's." Challenges of Genuine Change: The episode highlights the difficulty for leaders and parents in discerning whether someone has truly been transformed by the gospel or is simply going through the motions. Leadership Applications Leaders should focus on teaching a "holistic gospel" that emphasizes the principles of "becoming," rather than just providing a checklist of behaviors. This encourages genuine internal change over external compliance. The discussion suggests that the Church is effective at teaching "transcendence" (connection to God) but could improve at teaching "humanity" (love for others) and "temperance" (humility). Leaders can apply this insight by creating more opportunities for members to serve others and develop empathy. The research on political tolerance can help leaders foster more charitable and understanding discussions within their wards and stakes, particularly on sensitive topics. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Blair Treu is an award-winning director whose work includes a variety of feature films, television shows, documentaries, and commercials for over 30 years—from The Power Rangers to Chicken Soup for the Soul. The writer and director of Sharing Aloha and Meet the Mormons, he graduated from Brigham Young University with a bachelor's degree in Theatre and began his career at the Walt Disney Company. More recently, Blair worked with BYUtv to create the series Real Families, Real Answers, and was a co-director of Granite Flats. Links Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Get movie tickets and details at sharingalohathemovie.com Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Zion Lab Content Library Highlights The film Sharing Aloha, directed by Blair Treu, highlights the inspiring stories of students at the Polynesian Cultural Center and their transformative experiences. Blair shares how he became involved with the project, and discusses the unique challenges of capturing the students' stories, emphasizing their resilience and strong family ties. The film aims to showcase the students' journeys, illustrating how the PCC provides them with opportunities for education and personal growth. Throughout the conversation, Blair reflects on leadership principles learned from working with the students and the PCC staff. He highlights the importance of appreciation and compassion in leadership, drawing parallels to church leadership. 00:01:52 - Introducing Sharing Aloha Introduction to the film "Sharing Aloha" and its connection to the Polynesian Cultural Center. 00:03:44 - The Genesis of Sharing Aloha Blair Treu discusses how the project came to be and the inspiration behind it. 00:04:55 - The Abundance of Stories The challenge of selecting which stories to tell from the many available. 00:06:47 - Blair Treu's Background Blair shares his experience and previous projects in film and media. 00:08:44 - The Polynesian Cultural Center Discussion about the PCC and its significance in the film. 00:10:43 - Focus on Student Stories The decision to center the film on the students' experiences rather than the PCC's history. 00:12:14 - Insights on the YSA Demographic What Blair learned about the Young Single Adult demographic through the film. 00:13:37 - Cultural Connections The importance of family and community in Polynesian culture. 00:16:42 - The Film's Format Comparison of "Sharing Aloha" to "Meet the Mormons" in terms of storytelling. 00:18:18 - Funding and Support Details on how the film was funded and its relationship with the PCC. 00:20:38 - Addressing Criticism Discussion on the misconceptions and criticisms surrounding the PCC. 00:22:39 - The Value of Work The benefits students receive from working at the PCC compared to other jobs. 00:24:36 - Leadership in Performance Insights into how the PCC manages its performances and trains students. 00:30:14 - Leadership Lessons from Film Production Blair shares leadership principles learned from directing the film. 00:35:16 - The Importance of Appreciation The significance of recognizing and valuing team members in leadership. 00:38:53 - Final Thoughts on the Film Encouragement to support the film and its impact on the PCC. 00:40:41 - Personal Growth Through the Project How working on "Sharing Aloha" has strengthened Blair's faith and understanding of community. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay,

Tony sits down with his friend and Love, ADHD co-host, Julie De Jesus, to unpack her recent interview with Kevin Franke, ex-husband of Ruby Franke. Ruby, the former “8 Passengers” YouTuber, pled guilty in late 2023 to multiple counts of aggravated child abuse and, along with her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt, was sentenced in February 2024 to up to 30 years in prison under Utah law. While Tony originally planned to ask Julie about Kevin, the conversation took a different turn: the tidal wave of comments Julie received after posting her interview. With humor, honesty, and therapeutic insight, Tony and Julie read through some of those YouTube comments out loud, responding in real time. They explore why people are so quick to judge, why emotions often masquerade as facts, and how online criticism reveals more about the commenter than the person being critiqued. You'll hear candid reflections on: What Kevin's story stirs up in people (and why) How emotional immaturity shows up in the comment section (projection, black-and-white thinking, and mistaking feelings for truth) Why leaving abusive situations is never as simple as outsiders believe The concept of “whole object relations” — holding multiple emotions at once How Julie navigated negativity while staying grounded and authentic This episode is part deep dive into psychology, part raw behind-the-scenes of content creation, and part hilarious reading of unfiltered internet comments. If you've ever wondered why strangers online lash out—or how to handle criticism with both compassion and boundaries—this one's for you. 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:33 Julie De Jesus and Her Interview with Kevin Frankie 01:11 Handling Criticism and Emotional Reactions 02:40 Understanding Emotional Maturity 03:55 Navigating Online Criticism 07:40 Promoting the Upcoming Cruise 11:51 The Future of Love A DHD Podcast 12:24 Deep Dive into Kevin Frankie's Interview 21:04 Personal Reflections and Recognitions 31:30 Introduction to Kate's Family Dynamics 31:32 Exploring Religious Roles and Power Dynamics 32:23 Personal Reflections and Family Dynamics 35:00 Commentary on Interview Techniques 36:26 Debating Faith and Atheism 38:40 Addressing Online Criticism 42:20 Therapy and Personal Growth 53:05 Inner Child and Emotional Healing 01:00:02 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Tony sits down with his friend and Love, ADHD co-host, Julie De Jesus, to unpack her recent interview with Kevin Franke, ex-husband of Ruby Franke. Ruby, the former “8 Passengers” YouTuber, pled guilty in late 2023 to multiple counts of aggravated child abuse and, along with her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt, was sentenced in February 2024 to up to 30 years in prison under Utah law. While Tony originally planned to ask Julie about Kevin, the conversation took a different turn: the tidal wave of comments Julie received after posting her interview. With humor, honesty, and therapeutic insight, Tony and Julie read through some of those YouTube comments out loud, responding in real time. They explore why people are so quick to judge, why emotions often masquerade as facts, and how online criticism reveals more about the commenter than the person being critiqued. You'll hear candid reflections on: What Kevin's story stirs up in people (and why) How emotional immaturity shows up in the comment section (projection, black-and-white thinking, and mistaking feelings for truth) Why leaving abusive situations is never as simple as outsiders believe The concept of “whole object relations” — holding multiple emotions at once How Julie navigated negativity while staying grounded and authentic This episode is part deep dive into psychology, part raw behind-the-scenes of content creation, and part hilarious reading of unfiltered internet comments. If you've ever wondered why strangers online lash out—or how to handle criticism with both compassion and boundaries—this one's for you. 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:33 Julie De Jesus and Her Interview with Kevin Frankie 01:11 Handling Criticism and Emotional Reactions 02:40 Understanding Emotional Maturity 03:55 Navigating Online Criticism 07:40 Promoting the Upcoming Cruise 11:51 The Future of Love A DHD Podcast 12:24 Deep Dive into Kevin Frankie's Interview 21:04 Personal Reflections and Recognitions 31:30 Introduction to Kate's Family Dynamics 31:32 Exploring Religious Roles and Power Dynamics 32:23 Personal Reflections and Family Dynamics 35:00 Commentary on Interview Techniques 36:26 Debating Faith and Atheism 38:40 Addressing Online Criticism 42:20 Therapy and Personal Growth 53:05 Inner Child and Emotional Healing 01:00:02 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Skylar Haws has dedicated over a decade to serving youth in various church callings, including Young Men's President and Priest Quorum Advisor. He has also taught early morning seminary and worked as a youth Sunday School teacher. Skylar's passion for youth leadership stems from his own experiences and a desire to help young men grow spiritually and personally. He resides in Saratoga Springs with his family, where he balances his church responsibilities with work and family life. Links

Have you ever tried to change someone's mind—and watched them dig in even deeper? Or wondered why, even when you want to change your own beliefs, it feels like pushing against an invisible force? In this episode, Tony Overbay, LMFT, takes you on a journey that starts with a teenage quest for the perfect tan and ends with a powerful realization about how we construct our social realities. After sharing a personal story about undergoing a dramatic topical chemotherapy treatment for actinic keratosis, Tony reflects on how his temporarily altered appearance changed the way people interacted with him—and how it altered the way he saw himself. This experience sets the stage for a breakdown of the groundbreaking Dartmouth scar study, which revealed that the belief that you're being judged can actually create that experience—regardless of reality. From there, Tony dives into the science of confirmation bias: how our brains are wired to seek out information that supports what we already believe, and how this cognitive shortcut influences everything from politics and religion to parenting and marriage. You'll hear real-life examples, client stories (with details changed for confidentiality), and powerful metaphors that unpack why belief change is so hard—and why it's also essential for personal growth, emotional maturity, and deeper human connection. 00:00 The Quest for the Perfect Tan 00:35 A Dermatologist's Warning 01:33 The Chemotherapy Cream Experience 02:27 Social Reactions to Visible Differences 05:20 The Dartmouth Scar Study 06:24 The Power of Perception 15:25 Confirmation Bias in Action 32:47 Interpreting Neutral Events 33:04 Religion and Coincidences 33:34 Selective Memory in Parenting and Beyond 34:58 Confirmation Bias in Action 36:23 Client Story: Recognizing Bias 40:32 Vaccine Hesitancy and Confirmation Bias 44:58 The Scar Study and Confirmation Bias 54:56 Evolutionary Roots of Belief Protection 57:33 Modern Challenges and Professional Competence 01:01:49 Conclusion and Listener Engagement Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Have you ever tried to change someone's mind—and watched them dig in even deeper? Or wondered why, even when you want to change your own beliefs, it feels like pushing against an invisible force? In this episode, Tony Overbay, LMFT, takes you on a journey that starts with a teenage quest for the perfect tan and ends with a powerful realization about how we construct our social realities. After sharing a personal story about undergoing a dramatic topical chemotherapy treatment for actinic keratosis, Tony reflects on how his temporarily altered appearance changed the way people interacted with him—and how it altered the way he saw himself. This experience sets the stage for a breakdown of the groundbreaking Dartmouth scar study, which revealed that the belief that you're being judged can actually create that experience—regardless of reality. From there, Tony dives into the science of confirmation bias: how our brains are wired to seek out information that supports what we already believe, and how this cognitive shortcut influences everything from politics and religion to parenting and marriage. You'll hear real-life examples, client stories (with details changed for confidentiality), and powerful metaphors that unpack why belief change is so hard—and why it's also essential for personal growth, emotional maturity, and deeper human connection. 00:00 The Quest for the Perfect Tan 00:35 A Dermatologist's Warning 01:33 The Chemotherapy Cream Experience 02:27 Social Reactions to Visible Differences 05:20 The Dartmouth Scar Study 06:24 The Power of Perception 15:25 Confirmation Bias in Action 32:47 Interpreting Neutral Events 33:04 Religion and Coincidences 33:34 Selective Memory in Parenting and Beyond 34:58 Confirmation Bias in Action 36:23 Client Story: Recognizing Bias 40:32 Vaccine Hesitancy and Confirmation Bias 44:58 The Scar Study and Confirmation Bias 54:56 Evolutionary Roots of Belief Protection 57:33 Modern Challenges and Professional Competence 01:01:49 Conclusion and Listener Engagement Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

What do a therapist dad, his adult daughter, and a live stream full of honest questions have in common? A raw, insightful, and often hilarious live Q&A. In this special live episode, therapist Tony Overbay, LMFT, is joined by his daughter Sydney for a candid conversation that covers everything from emotional immaturity and ADHD to family dynamics, addiction, and navigating a faith crisis. With their signature mix of warmth, wit, and psychological depth, Tony and Sydney explore how perception truly shapes reality (via the Dartmouth scar study), what it means to heal your inner child, and why we so often double down on what's familiar—even when it no longer serves us. You'll hear real-time questions and breakthroughs from listeners on topics like trauma, medication, parenting, and personal growth. Sydney shares her lived experience leaving a high-demand religion, and Tony offers grounded, compassionate insights on how we all carry parts of ourselves—from inner kids to "addicts"—that are doing their best to help us survive. Whether you're working through your own stuff or just love real talk about what it means to grow up (emotionally and otherwise), this episode has something for you. 00:00 Introduction and Casual Banter 00:27 Addressing Viewer Messages and Introductions 00:47 Losing and Finding the Phone 02:04 Mental Health Questions and Therapy Advice 07:08 Perception and Reality 16:48 Faith, Beliefs, and Community 27:51 Parent-Child Dynamics and Emotional Health 37:23 Personifying Addiction: Meet Andy 38:04 The Power of Self-Identification 38:51 Medication and Personal Progress 41:16 Emotional Immaturity and Childhood Adaptations 47:57 Navigating Family Dynamics and Acceptance 01:09:08 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally aired in March 2021. Clint Pulver is an Emmy Award-winning, motivational keynote speaker, author, musician, and workforce expert. The president and founder of The Center for Employee Retention, Clint has transformed how corporations create lasting loyalty through his work and research as “The Undercover Millennial”. His book I Love It Here shares how extraordinary leaders create companies their people never want to leave, and in this interview he helps translate some of that wisdom into local leadership in the Church. Clint is currently serving as a bishop. Links I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create Organizations Their People Never Want to Leave clintpulver.com Instagram @clintpulver Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 4:40 Writing a book with lots of research was a difficult project 7:35 Culture changes in different wards come down to leadership 9:00 Engagement is low due to the pandemic but we can change some things even now 10:20 "Let me know when it gets to the part about me": getting to the people in the gospel is what builds a stronger culture 13:25 Give them a reason to connect with you; make the little efforts to connect with people 15:30 "Who said the guy wanted a fish?" Ask people what they want; do more listening than talking 17:30 Traditional leadership vs. mentorship and personal connection 19:30 Four types of leaders The leader who is removed The buddy The controller The mentor 24:15 Do you have the right people in the right places? 27:25 When inviting someone to a calling, make an invitation, talk about the expectations, and look for some buy-in 31:10 Status interviews and the power of meeting regularly Not a performance review Three questions: What can we do to keep you more engaged? What's getting in the way of your success? What can I do to help you get there? 35:15 Start with a check-in and vocal praise 37:00 Repeat back so they know they were heard and understood Follow up on what you said you would do Create a growth development plan with them Invoke the help of other people and make it simpler for you 40:00 Core values and a vision: keep it simple and memorable 42:30 Reflective questions Be open to feedback The to-don't list 47:35 Story of the business leader who was open and vulnerable, leading to a sense of ownership for her employees 51:00 Look for inspiration through association and connection with other people 53:00 What do you offer that Google can't? 54:20 "I love who I am when I'm here" The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in September 2019. Frank Layden was a beloved basketball coach and executive best known for his time with the Utah Jazz. While he achieved tremendous professional success—earning NBA Coach of the Year, Executive of the Year, and the J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award all in 1984—it was his warmth, humor, and larger-than-life personality that truly defined him. Known for his self-deprecating wit and quick one-liners, Layden brought levity to the game and was deeply respected by players, colleagues, and fans alike. Beyond basketball, Layden was cherished for his kindness, community involvement, and ability to connect with people on a personal level. He had a gift for making others feel valued, often using laughter to lift those around him. Even in retirement, he remained a vibrant part of the Salt Lake City community. Frank Layden passed away on July 9, 2025, at the age of 93, leaving behind a legacy of leadership and compassion. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Early Experiences & Utah Transition 00:03:34 Involvement with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; reflections on what President Thomas S. Monson said about him 00:05:24 How he ended up in Utah with the Jazz 00:09:03 First knowledge of and interactions with members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 00:10:15 Approach to sports and Utah's culture: “What can we do to help here?” Focused on building relationships over highlighting differences. Personal and Professional Philosophy 00:12:44 How he became a coach - Belief that his family was meant to be in Utah - Building the Jazz from a losing team into a contender - Perspective on success: You won't always succeed, and shouldn't measure success by money. Prioritize doing what you love and service. 00:17:48 The Jazz's efforts to help players and their families grow off the court: - Wives club activities: fashion shows, making Christmas trees, supporting education - Interfaith chapel service with Rev. France Davis and Pastor Jerry Lewis - Bonuses for players who finished college degrees Leadership & Team Management 00:20:10 When players feel coaches support them, they give their all. 00:22:37 Emphasis on making each player feel loved; daily question: “What can I do for you today?” 00:24:58 The importance of small things: punctuality, readiness, balancing authority and discipline 00:28:20 Players must believe in you, and you must believe in yourself. - Understanding who needs motivation vs. encouragement 00:32:47 Establishing leadership: the team must know who leads - “Winning is not a sometimes thing; it starts the first day of practice.” Relationship-Building & Daily Culture 00:39:42 Building one-on-one connections with players - Creating comfort for players to approach leadership - Listening to them (examples include book club and shared reading) - Encouraging professional appearance - Mutual respect and adult treatment fosters loyalty 00:42:50 Players can sense if you enjoy your job. Reflection on Faith & Community 00:48:22 How being part of Utah's religious community enhanced his experience as a Catholic 00:53:04 Takeaways and Leadership Principles The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish,

Angela Sturgeon has served in a variety of callings, including Sunday School teacher, Young Women first counselor, Relief Society counselor and secretary, Relief Society president, Primary Activity Days leader, and in Scouts. She most recently served as the stake Primary secretary and now as stake Primary president. Angela earned an associate's degree in History and Political Science from Orange Coast College and after many years of balancing work, family, and part-time study, will be graduating in a few weeks with a bachelor's degree from Brigham Young University-Idaho. She worked as a flight attendant before retiring in 2022 and has since pursued her passion for encouraging and mentoring others, becoming a published best-selling author of How to Be Resilient for Turbulent Times and a TEDx speaker of the same title. She speaks regularly on resilience, faith, and purpose—inspiring audiences to rise with strength in the face of adversity. Links How to Be Resilient for Turbulent Times: 7 Guiding Resiliency Principles How to be resilient for turbulent times | Angela Sturgeon | TEDxUSFSM Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Angela shares her unique experiences and insights gained from her leadership role in a diverse and spread-out stake. She candidly discusses her initial challenges stepping into the role of stake Primary president without prior experience in a ward Primary presidency. Angela emphasizes the importance of building relationships and understanding the unique needs of each ward and branch within her stake. She shares key principles that guide her leadership approach: Embracing Flexibility and Personal Growth: Angela speaks about the necessity of being adaptable in leadership, especially when faced with diverse needs across different wards. She emphasizes the importance of relying on Heavenly Father and being open to the Spirit to guide her decisions. Fostering Spiritual Resilience: Drawing from her own life experiences, Angela discusses how spiritual resilience is crucial for both leaders and members. She shares personal stories of overcoming challenges and how this resilience can inspire others to keep moving forward in their faith. Cultivating a Culture of Love and Growth: Angela stresses the importance of creating an environment where individuals feel loved and supported. She describes how building relationships with other leaders and members fosters a sense of community and encourages open dialogue about struggles and successes. 00:03:40 - Angela's Background and Move to Indiana 00:04:51 - Transition to Stake Primary President 00:05:49 - Initial Orientation in Leadership 00:07:10 - Navigating Leadership as a Convert 00:08:57 - Visiting Wards and Branches 00:09:48 - Scheduling Visits 00:10:45 - Personal Experiences and Challenges 00:12:23 - Building Relationships in Leadership 00:16:22 - Embracing Flexibility and Personal Growth 00:19:26 - Fostering Spiritual Resilience 00:25:54 - Cultivating a Culture of Love and Growth 00:30:47 - Windshield Time and Connection 00:32:27 - Unique Activities in the Stake 00:34:00 - Navigating Stake and Ward Dynamics 00:35:33 - Final Thoughts on Leadership and Love The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill,

What if an entire generation is emotionally stuck in childhood—and doesn't even know it? In this compelling guest appearance on The Steph and Craig Show, Tony dives deep into what he calls "the emotional immaturity epidemic" that's quietly sabotaging relationships everywhere. Discover the hidden patterns that keep adults reacting like children: black-and-white thinking that destroys nuance, magical thinking that avoids reality, and the exhausting habit of managing everyone else's emotions instead of allowing people to have their own experiences. Through real-life examples and practical insights, you'll learn to recognize these childhood survival strategies that have become adult relationship roadblocks. Whether you're the people-pleaser who can't say no, the perfectionist who fears vulnerability, or the controller trying to manage everyone's feelings, this conversation offers eye-opening insights into how these patterns formed—and more importantly, how to outgrow them. What you'll discover: • Why emotional reasoning ("I feel it, so it must be true") sabotages relationships • How childhood adaptations become adult limitations • Practical tools for recognizing your own emotional immaturity patterns • Actionable strategies for developing genuine emotional maturity Ready to stop reacting from your inner child and start responding from your wise adult self? This episode will show you exactly where to begin. Find The Steph and Craig Show at stephandcraig.co 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:34 Guest Introduction: Steph and Craig 02:22 Emotional Immaturity Epidemic 04:18 Therapy Insights and Personal Anecdotes 05:24 Interview Begins: Revisiting Past Conversations 06:52 Emotional Weight in Relationships 09:55 Understanding Emotional Immaturity 13:02 Inner Child and Emotional Development 27:35 Black and White Thinking in Relationships 30:55 Reflecting on Past Behaviors 31:53 The Power of Language in Relationships 33:07 Understanding Black or White Thinking 34:45 Magical Thinking and Emotional Maturity 43:12 Emotional Reasoning in Adults 58:46 Navigating Faith and Personal Validation 01:00:13 The Impact of External Validation on Self-Identity 01:00:42 The Role of Accountability and Magical Thinking 01:01:16 Spiritual Perspectives on Differentiation 01:02:37 Emotional Boundaries and Responsibility 01:04:35 Navigating Emotional Charges in Relationships 01:06:48 The Journey of Emotional Maturity 01:11:30 Mind Reading and Assumptions in Relationships 01:16:10 The Continuous Learning Process 01:23:31 The Importance of Emotional Maturity 01:26:05 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

What if an entire generation is emotionally stuck in childhood—and doesn't even know it? In this compelling guest appearance on The Steph and Craig Show, Tony dives deep into what he calls "the emotional immaturity epidemic" that's quietly sabotaging relationships everywhere. Discover the hidden patterns that keep adults reacting like children: black-and-white thinking that destroys nuance, magical thinking that avoids reality, and the exhausting habit of managing everyone else's emotions instead of allowing people to have their own experiences. Through real-life examples and practical insights, you'll learn to recognize these childhood survival strategies that have become adult relationship roadblocks. Whether you're the people-pleaser who can't say no, the perfectionist who fears vulnerability, or the controller trying to manage everyone's feelings, this conversation offers eye-opening insights into how these patterns formed—and more importantly, how to outgrow them. What you'll discover: • Why emotional reasoning ("I feel it, so it must be true") sabotages relationships • How childhood adaptations become adult limitations • Practical tools for recognizing your own emotional immaturity patterns • Actionable strategies for developing genuine emotional maturity Ready to stop reacting from your inner child and start responding from your wise adult self? This episode will show you exactly where to begin. Find The Steph and Craig Show at stephandcraig.co 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:34 Guest Introduction: Steph and Craig 02:22 Emotional Immaturity Epidemic 04:18 Therapy Insights and Personal Anecdotes 05:24 Interview Begins: Revisiting Past Conversations 06:52 Emotional Weight in Relationships 09:55 Understanding Emotional Immaturity 13:02 Inner Child and Emotional Development 27:35 Black and White Thinking in Relationships 30:55 Reflecting on Past Behaviors 31:53 The Power of Language in Relationships 33:07 Understanding Black or White Thinking 34:45 Magical Thinking and Emotional Maturity 43:12 Emotional Reasoning in Adults 58:46 Navigating Faith and Personal Validation 01:00:13 The Impact of External Validation on Self-Identity 01:00:42 The Role of Accountability and Magical Thinking 01:01:16 Spiritual Perspectives on Differentiation 01:02:37 Emotional Boundaries and Responsibility 01:04:35 Navigating Emotional Charges in Relationships 01:06:48 The Journey of Emotional Maturity 01:11:30 Mind Reading and Assumptions in Relationships 01:16:10 The Continuous Learning Process 01:23:31 The Importance of Emotional Maturity 01:26:05 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Kurt Francom, Executive Director of Leading Saints, shares his thoughts on the unwritten order of things—a term popularized by Elder Boyd K. Packer in a BYU devotional in October 1996. This phrase has influenced leadership culture in the Church, often being used as a trump card to justify certain practices or norms that are not explicitly documented in church handbooks. Listen to a reading of the original devotional. Links Is Aspiring Wrong? Church Doctrine, Policy, & Leadership | An Interview with Anthony Sweat Y Religion: Defining Church Doctrine, with Michael Goodman The Role of Doubt and Faith | An Interview With Prof. Michael Goodman Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Kurt explores the context of Elder Packer's talk, highlighting the challenges of leadership in the 1990s when handbooks were not publicly accessible. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the principles behind leadership practices rather than blindly adhering to unwritten rules that may not serve the best interests of the community. He outlines the ten unwritten orders of things mentioned by Elder Packer, assessing whether each principle is supported by the church handbook. While some of these principles align with current guidelines, others are not formally recognized, raising questions about their validity and application in modern leadership. Kurt encourages listeners to consider the implications of using the unwritten order of things as a means of manipulation or control, and advocates for a more open dialogue about leadership best practices, urging leaders to communicate their expectations clearly rather than relying on vague traditions. He invites listeners to engage in this conversation, share their experiences, and contribute to a culture of effective leadership where the church can more-effectively draw people to Christ. 00:02:47 - Context of Elder Packer's Talk 00:04:11 - The Unwritten Order of Things Explained 00:05:24 - Weaponization of the Unwritten Order 00:06:05 - Importance of Context in Leadership 00:07:51 - Changes in Handbook Accessibility 00:09:05 - Elder Packer's Teaching Style 00:10:08 - Challenges in Communicating Leadership Guidelines 00:11:22 - The Role of General Authorities in Leadership 00:12:03 - Misinterpretation of the Unwritten Order 00:13:40 - Elder Packer's Ten Unwritten Orders 00:14:01 - Analysis of Each Unwritten Order 00:19:05 - The Role of Personal Counsel in Leadership 00:20:30 - Observing Church Customs and Traditions 00:21:23 - Setting a Tone of Dignity in Meetings 00:22:06 - The Balance of Leadership and Followership 00:23:20 - Binding Nature of the Unwritten Order 00:24:03 - Current Unwritten Orders in Leadership 00:25:07 - The Tyranny of General Authority 00:26:20 - The Importance of Local Leadership Autonomy 00:27:34 - Principles vs. Prescriptions in Leadership 00:29:41 - Establishing Best Practices in Leadership 00:30:57 - Conclusion: Moving Beyond the Unwritten Order The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler,

Kurt Francom reads this Brigham Young University devotional given by Elder Boyd K. Packer in 1996. Listen to the podcast episode about this devotional and its influence on leadership culture in the Church. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 00:02:00 - The Importance of Teaching Basics 00:03:30 - The Foundation of Knowledge and Testimony 00:05:00 - Understanding the Unwritten Order of Things 00:06:30 - The Role of the Presiding Officer in Meetings 00:08:00 - Accepting Calls and Releases in the Church 00:09:30 - Learning from Experienced Leaders 00:11:00 - Seeking Counsel and Blessings 00:12:30 - The Vertical Nature of Revelation 00:14:00 - The Importance of Being a Good Follower 00:15:30 - Proper Order in Callings and Assignments 00:17:00 - Maintaining Dignity in Meetings 00:18:30 - The Role of the Bishop in Meetings 00:20:00 - Learning Through Observation and Experience 00:21:30 - The Power of the Ordinary Saints The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Are you truly being curious—or just trying to win the argument? Tony explores the difference between genuine curiosity and performative questions, sharing real-life examples and tools to help you respond with emotional maturity, not reactivity. Learn how curiosity can transform your relationships. 00:00 Introduction and Host Background 01:42 Understanding Performative vs. Genuine Curiosity 02:04 A Personal Story About Curiosity 08:50 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity in Relationships 19:10 Self-Regulation and Emotional Maturity 24:18 Promoting Genuine Curiosity in Parenting 26:17 The Role of Humility in Curiosity 29:41 Healthy Ego vs. Defensive Narcissism 35:03 The Neuroscience of Decision Making and Emotions 37:06 The Power of Slowing Down 37:36 Understanding Emotions: Primary, Secondary, and Instrumental 41:02 Exploring Anger in Relationships 42:48 Trusting Your Gut and Emotional Reasoning 45:41 Addressing Men's Emotional Immaturity 48:55 Real-Life Examples of Genuine Curiosity 53:42 Parenting with Curiosity 55:09 Curiosity in Marriage and Workplace 59:47 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Tools 01:02:15 Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation 01:05:20 Final Thoughts and Takeaways Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Are you truly being curious—or just trying to win the argument? Tony explores the difference between genuine curiosity and performative questions, sharing real-life examples and tools to help you respond with emotional maturity, not reactivity. Learn how curiosity can transform your relationships. 00:00 Introduction and Host Background 01:42 Understanding Performative vs. Genuine Curiosity 02:04 A Personal Story About Curiosity 08:50 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity in Relationships 19:10 Self-Regulation and Emotional Maturity 24:18 Promoting Genuine Curiosity in Parenting 26:17 The Role of Humility in Curiosity 29:41 Healthy Ego vs. Defensive Narcissism 35:03 The Neuroscience of Decision Making and Emotions 37:06 The Power of Slowing Down 37:36 Understanding Emotions: Primary, Secondary, and Instrumental 41:02 Exploring Anger in Relationships 42:48 Trusting Your Gut and Emotional Reasoning 45:41 Addressing Men's Emotional Immaturity 48:55 Real-Life Examples of Genuine Curiosity 53:42 Parenting with Curiosity 55:09 Curiosity in Marriage and Workplace 59:47 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Tools 01:02:15 Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation 01:05:20 Final Thoughts and Takeaways Contact Tony at contact@tonyoverbay.com to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Jeff Strong worked nearly 30 years in the consumer products industry as a senior executive at Procter & Gamble and global president and chief customer officer at Johnson & Johnson. He then taught in the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University and worked as an advisor to the Church before serving as a mission leader in the Arkansas Bentonville Mission. Jeff has since spent several years doing research on why people are leaving the Church. While not a professional researcher, his career involved a large amount of research and the research he shares in this podcast was done with the help of some of the top Latter-day Saint researchers in the world. Today, Jeff lives in Midway, Utah, and stays busy with a little lavender farm, some business consulting, and enjoying family. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights In this conversation, Jeff dives deep into the tension between church culture and personal beliefs, and how embracing it can lead to growth and understanding within our church community. He discusses the findings from a comprehensive survey that aimed to understand disaffiliation and the tensions members experience in their church lives. A key takeaway is the importance of understanding what members love about the Church, revealing the core values that bind members together, despite the tensions they may feel. Jeff talks about the tensions present in church culture, emphasizing the dual facets of this conflict: the tension between tradition and change, and the tension arising from our differences. He explores how members often feel a significant conflict in their church experience, with many expressing discomfort with the culture. Jeff presents data indicating that nearly half of the respondents felt a significant conflict, and more than half did not feel a strong sense of belonging in their congregations. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes the importance of recognizing and embracing this tension rather than attempting to eliminate it. 00:02:40 - Purpose of the Survey on Disaffiliation 00:05:12 - Survey Response Insights 00:07:38 - What People Love About the Church 00:10:30 - Core Values of Church Members 00:12:33 - Strengths of the Church 00:13:10 - Tension Between Tradition and Change 00:16:00 - Navigating Cultural Differences 00:19:15 - Understanding Tension in Church Experience 00:22:10 - Data on Comfort and Belonging 00:23:38 - Recognizing Conflict in the Congregation 00:30:02 - Tension Between Personal and Cultural Values 00:35:44 - Embracing Tension in Leadership 00:40:08 - Creating a Safe Space for Tension The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

How many times have you been told you were too sensitive? Or accused of overreacting? Maybe you've heard things like, “It's not a big deal,” “You need to calm down,” or “It was just a joke—why are you making this such a thing?” And each time, you questioned yourself. Was it really that bad? Were you imagining things? Because on their own, the comments, the criticisms, the passive-aggressive digs might seem small—hardly worth mentioning. But they kept happening. Over and over. Until you stopped trusting your own perception. That's the nature of death by 1,000 cuts. It's not the severity of one moment—it's the slow, relentless erosion of your sense of self, done quietly enough that you begin to doubt whether you're even bleeding at all. In this ninth edition of the Death by 1,000 Cuts series, Tony Overbay, LMFT, dives even deeper into the subtle ways being in a relationship with the narcissist, or emotionally immature, erodes your sense of self, one dismissive comment, one double standard, one guilt trip at a time. Tony explains how this isn't just about pain. It's about power. You'll hear real stories from real people who've endured the emotional whiplash, the rewritten history, and the gaslighting—and who are waking up to their self-worth. He explores what happens when those who were meant to love us chip away at our confidence, and what it means to finally stop apologizing for noticing. And Tony shares how to recognize eventually, and then celebrate the resilience of those who are still standing, not just after 1,000 cuts, but after every life they had to rebuild. If you've ever felt like you were the only one keeping score of the damage—or the only one still fighting to heal—this episode is for you. 00:00 A True Story Begins 00:20 The Number Nine Debate 01:28 Mark's Research and Sarah's Reaction 03:17 The Argument Escalates 05:24 Mark's Apology and Internal Struggle 06:11 Mark's Conversation with Jim 07:05 Introduction to Death by a Thousand Cuts 08:58 Understanding Emotional Abuse 11:08 Listener's Email on Validation 14:45 Financial Control in Divorce 19:21 Emotional Betrayal in Vulnerability 22:44 The Car Disagreement 32:17 Emotional Immaturity and Self-Sufficiency 34:00 The Weaponization of Humor 37:27 The Impact of Passive-Aggressive Comments 47:38 Control and Manipulation in Relationships 50:31 Emotional Triangulation and Rewriting Narratives 54:57 Healing and Moving Forward 57:59 Mindfulness Prompt: The Cut and the Healing

Patrick Sedivy is the Founder and CEO of Cumorah Academy, a non-profit private school dedicated to empowering individuals to follow Jesus Christ and positively impact their lives, careers, and communities. His commitment to service and leadership is rooted in his faith and family background—his parents defected from communist Czechoslovakia in 1969 in search of religious freedom, and he later served as a missionary in the Czech Republic. Patrick and his wife, Allyse, share a passion for inspiring and guiding young adults, which led them to establish Cumorah Academy. Patrick also serves as CEO of HYPE, a program dedicated to empowering youth and creating unforgettable experiences. Links CumorahAcademy.org GoHYPE.org Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 00:03:39 - The Vision Behind Cumorah Academy 00:05:23 - Understanding the Structure of Cumorah Academy 00:06:30 - The Importance of Leadership Skills 00:08:00 - Who Can Attend Cumorah Academy? 00:09:49 - The International Reach of Cumorah Academy 00:10:34 - Tuition and Scholarships 00:12:26 - Language and Learning Environment 00:13:11 - Success Stories from Cumorah Academy 00:14:41 - Transformative Experiences of Students 00:16:25 - The Need for Continuous Learning 00:17:42 - Addressing the Transition Challenges for Young Adults 00:18:50 - Curriculum Overview and Key Principles 00:19:28 - Accountability and Personal Growth 00:20:34 - Conflict Resolution Skills 00:22:08 - Interactive Learning Methodology 00:23:40 - Balancing Workload and Downtime 00:25:57 - Creating Positive Connections Among Students 00:27:36 - The Role of Visiting Mentors 00:29:50 - Public Speaking and Presentation Skills 00:31:07 - Leadership Curriculum and Modules 00:32:54 - Holistic Approach to Student Well-being 00:34:37 - Measuring Emotional Resilience and Hopefulness 00:36:39 - The Importance of Human Connection 00:38:06 - Opportunities for Mentorship and Involvement 00:39:49 - Conclusion and Resources for Further Engagement 00:41:13 - Introducing Hype: Humanitarian Leadership Experience The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in March 2018. Adam McHugh is an author, former hospice chaplain, spiritual director, and minister, and now a wine tour guide and sommelier. The author of Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture, he is an ordained Presbyterian minister, having earned a Masters of Divinity and Masters of Theology in Greek New Testament from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is also the author of The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction. Since this interview was recorded he has written a memoir, Blood from a Stone. Adam lives in California's Santa Ynez Valley, and may be the only person published in both Psychology Today and Wine Enthusiast. Links Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 4:30 Becoming an ordained minister 7:30 What led to writing Introverts in the Church 10:50 Explanation of introversion and extroversion 16:00 Problems that introverts experience at church 19:00 Understanding the discomfort of personal vulnerability and sharing beliefs as an expression of faith 22:00 Introverts generally prefer depth over breadth 24:00 The power of listening: experience at a hospital 30:00 Introverts and small talk 34:00 How introverts approach dealing with conflict and decisions 40:00 Silence, reverence, and the internal experience compared to active social environments 45:20 Cultural clash of introvert and extrovert leaders: overcoming stereotypes and encouraging introverts to be leaders 48:50 Reaching out to invite introverts to participate The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Scott Rasband worked 15 years in medical device sales and leadership before transitioning to Chick-fil-A, and has spent the last 10 years operating the Chick-fil-A in Spanish Fork, Utah. In the Church, Scott has served as a Young Men president, elders quorum president, bishopric counselor, and bishop. He is the father of five and currently serves as the bishop of a Young Single Adult ward. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Scott Rasband wears two significant hats: he is both the owner of a Chick-fil-A restaurant in Spanish Fork, Utah, and a YSA bishop. He describes the values instilled by the Cathy family, owners of the Chick-fil-A brand, and how these values shape the experience for both employees and customers. He emphasizes the importance of local ownership and how it fosters a sense of community and connection. Scott talks about "second mile service," a principle derived from Matthew 5:41, which encourages going above and beyond for others. He illustrates this concept with anecdotes from his restaurant—moments that create emotional connections and leave a lasting impression on customers. Scott shares insights into his role as a YSA bishop, where he applies similar leadership principles. He discusses the importance of being present, allowing young adults to lead, and connecting them to a higher purpose. Informal gatherings, like "Straggler Sundays" at his home, foster community and build trust among ward members. Scott's approach to leadership is characterized by vulnerability and accessibility, as he actively reaches out to members through texts and personal interactions. He highlights the significance of mentorship and the power of creating a culture where young adults feel valued and empowered. 00:02:14 - Chick-fil-A Culture and Leadership 00:04:03 - Scott's Background and Experience 00:05:10 - Positive Perspectives on Young Adults 00:06:24 - Connecting Youth to Jesus Christ 00:07:13 - Chick-fil-A's Unique Organizational Culture 00:09:25 - The Importance of Sunday Closure 00:11:22 - Mission to Be the World's Most Caring Company 00:12:22 - Translating Mission Statements into Action 00:13:41 - Servant Leadership in Action 00:14:56 - The Impact of Chick-fil-A's Values 00:16:05 - Local Ownership and Community Impact 00:17:02 - The Role of Personal Connection in Leadership 00:18:10 - Examples of Chick-fil-A's Customer Experience 00:20:10 - Core Four Principles for Employee Interaction 00:22:36 - The Origin of "My Pleasure" 00:23:09 - The Significance of Culture in Organizations 00:24:26 - Retention and Employee Satisfaction 00:25:38 - Patterns of Gathering in the YSA Ward 00:27:44 - Straggler Sunday Concept 00:28:59 - Informal Gatherings and Building Relationships 00:29:20 - Digital Relationships with Ward Members 00:30:48 - The Importance of Availability 00:32:06 - Mentoring and Leadership Development 00:33:11 - Involving Spouses in Ministry 00:34:05 - Creating a Culture of Vulnerability 00:35:09 - The Role of Surprise and Delight 00:36:11 - Letting Young Adults Lead 00:39:29 - Delegating Responsibility in Chick-fil-A 00:40:39 - Building Trust Through Delegation 00:41:26 - Adapting to Change in the YSA Ward 00:42:18 - Embracing New Traditions in Worship The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson,

Marla Christensen, AMFT, APCC, and Tony Overbay, LMFT, delve into Ethan Kross's "Shift: Managing Your Emotions So They Don't Manage You" for another installment of the "Virtual Couch Book Club." They explore emotional awareness, sensory shifts, and cultural influences on emotional well-being. Practical techniques, such as distant self-talk and the Whoop framework (Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan), are covered, offering listeners actionable strategies for emotional management. Tony opens the episode by explaining how common parental phrases, such as "it's not a big deal" or "just don't worry about it," can unintentionally hinder emotional expression in adulthood, setting the stage for struggles with managing emotions later in life. This discussion offers valuable insights for individuals seeking to understand better and manage their emotions. 00:00 A Touching Parenting Moment 02:22 Introduction to the Virtual Couch 02:31 Book Club: Managing Emotions 03:16 The Importance of Emotional Awareness 03:37 Understanding Emotional Language 04:44 The Disconnect from Emotions 06:01 Introducing Dr. Ethan Cross's 'Shift' 06:23 Meet Marla Christiansen 07:33 Exploring Emotional Concepts from 'Shift' 07:46 The Complexity of Emotions 08:05 Practical Tools for Emotional Management 08:20 The Power of Distanced Self-Talk 08:37 External Influences on Emotions 09:02 Body Awareness and Emotions 09:12 Navigating Difficult Emotions 09:24 Impact of Social Media and Cultural Factors 09:37 Appreciating Emotions as Information 10:18 Book Club Discussion: 'Shift' by Dr. Ethan Cross 10:30 Starting the Interview with Marla Christensen 11:24 Diving into Emotional Regulation 11:43 Book Club Insights and Personal Reflections 22:58 The Law of Least Work 25:01 Exploring Low-Cost Emotional Shifts 25:40 Understanding Attention and Perspective 26:10 Navigating Emotional Avoidance and Approach 27:27 The Power of Reframing 29:29 Distanced Self-Talk: A Unique Approach 31:07 Shifting Emotions Through Environment 33:44 The Role of Relationships in Emotional Shifts 37:24 Cultural Influences on Emotions 39:37 The Impact of Comparison 42:37 Practical Tools for Emotional Mastery 44:06 Final Thoughts and Resources