Podcasts about Robert Fagles

In this episode of the Three Pillars podcast, Chase Tobin concludes the series on the Hero's Journey, focusing on the final stage: the Return with the Elixir. He discusses the significance of this stage, emphasizing that the journey is not complete until the hero shares their transformation and wisdom with others. Through various examples from literature, pop culture, and Christian teachings, Chase illustrates how personal growth and experiences can uplift communities and guide others. He encourages listeners to reflect on their own journeys and the importance of sharing their insights to make a positive impact in the world.Chapters00:00 Introduction to the Hero's Journey03:20 Understanding the Return with the Elixir09:34 Characteristics of the Return10:31 Literary and Pop Culture Examples14:46 The Christian Perspective on the Return20:00 Navigating the Return in Our Lives25:07 Conclusion and Call to ActionSUBSCRIBE TO THE NEW PODCAST CHANNEL HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@3PillarsPodcast Takeaways-The hero's journey culminates in the return with the elixir.-Transformation is not just for personal gain but for the benefit of others.-The return signifies a sense of completion and purpose.-Heroes often bring back wisdom or gifts that uplift their communities.-The journey never truly ends; heroes may become mentors.-Literary examples like Odysseus and Prometheus illustrate the return.-Jesus' resurrection exemplifies the ultimate return with a message of salvation.-Personal struggles can be used to guide others in their journeys.-Fitness and faith journeys are interconnected in the process of transformation.-Sharing experiences and wisdom is crucial for community growth.God bless you all. Jesus is King. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I appreciate all the comments, topic suggestions, and shares! Find the "3 Pillars Podcast" on all major platforms. For more information, visit the 3 Pillars Podcast website: https://3pillarspodcast.com/Don't forget to check out the 3 Pillars Podcast on Goodpods and share your thoughts by leaving a rating and review: https://goodpods.app.link/3X02e8nmIub Please Support Veteran's For Child Rescue: https://vets4childrescue.org/ Stay connected with Joe Russiello and the "Sword of the Spirit" Podcast: https://www.swordofthespiritpodcast.com/ Join the conversation: #3pillarspodcast References-Campbell, J. (1949). The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Princeton University Press.-The Holy Bible (New International Version).-Homer. (8th Century BCE). The Odyssey. Trans. Robert Fagles. Penguin Classics.-Disney. (1994). The Lion King (Film). Walt Disney Pictures.-Watts, J. (2021). Spider-Man: No Way Home (Film). Marvel Studios.

In this week's episode of the 3 Pillars Podcast we will be introducing the Tenth Stage of the Hero's Journey: The Road Back. What is it, what are it's characteristics and how can we apply our Christian faith and fitness to navigate our story?SUBSCRIBE TO THE NEW PODCAST CHANNEL HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@3PillarsPodcast God bless you all. Jesus is King. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I appreciate all the comments, topic suggestions, and shares! Find the "3 Pillars Podcast" on all major platforms. For more information, visit the 3 Pillars Podcast website: https://3pillarspodcast.com/Don't forget to check out the 3 Pillars Podcast on Goodpods and share your thoughts by leaving a rating and review: https://goodpods.app.link/3X02e8nmIub Please Support Veteran's For Child Rescue: https://vets4childrescue.org/ Stay connected with Joe Russiello and the "Sword of the Spirit" Podcast: https://www.swordofthespiritpodcast.com/ Join the conversation: #3pillarspodcast References-Campbell, J. (1949). The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Princeton University Press.-The Holy Bible (New International Version).-Homer. (8th Century BCE). The Odyssey. Trans. Robert Fagles. Penguin Classics.-Tolkien, J.R.R. (1937). The Hobbit. George Allen & Unwin.-Nolan, C. (2012). The Dark Knight Rises (Film). Warner Bros.

In this week's episode of the 3 Pillars Podcast we will be introducing the Ninth Stage of the Hero's Journey: The Reward. What is it, what are it's characteristics and how can we apply our Christian faith and fitness to navigate our story?SUBSCRIBE TO THE NEW PODCAST CHANNEL HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@3PillarsPodcast God bless you all. Jesus is King. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I appreciate all the comments, topic suggestions, and shares! Find the "3 Pillars Podcast" on all major platforms. For more information, visit the 3 Pillars Podcast website: https://3pillarspodcast.com/Don't forget to check out the 3 Pillars Podcast on Goodpods and share your thoughts by leaving a rating and review: https://goodpods.app.link/3X02e8nmIub Please Support Veteran's For Child Rescue: https://vets4childrescue.org/ Stay connected with Joe Russiello and the "Sword of the Spirit" Podcast: https://www.swordofthespiritpodcast.com/ Join the conversation: #3pillarspodcast References-Campbell, J. (1949). The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Princeton University Press.-The Holy Bible (New International Version).-Homer. (8th Century BCE). The Odyssey. Trans. Robert Fagles. Penguin Classics.-Tolkien, J.R.R. (1954). The Lord of the Rings. George Allen & Unwin.-Lucas, G. (1977). Star Wars: A New Hope (Film). Lucasfilm.

In this week's episode of the 3 Pillars Podcast we will be introducing the Eighth Stage of the Hero's Journey: The Ordeal. What is it, what are it's characteristics and how can we apply our Christian faith and fitness to navigate our story?SUBSCRIBE TO THE NEW PODCAST CHANNEL HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@3PillarsPodcast God bless you all. Jesus is King. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I appreciate all the comments, topic suggestions, and shares! Find the "3 Pillars Podcast" on all major platforms. For more information, visit the 3 Pillars Podcast website: https://3pillarspodcast.com/Don't forget to check out the 3 Pillars Podcast on Goodpods and share your thoughts by leaving a rating and review: https://goodpods.app.link/3X02e8nmIub Please Support Veteran's For Child Rescue: https://vets4childrescue.org/ Stay connected with Joe Russiello and the "Sword of the Spirit" Podcast: https://www.swordofthespiritpodcast.com/ Join the conversation: #3pillarspodcast References-Campbell, J. (1949). The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Princeton University Press.-Homer. (8th Century BCE). The Odyssey. Trans. Robert Fagles. Penguin Classics.-The Holy Bible (New International Version).-Tolkien, J.R.R. (1954). The Lord of the Rings. George Allen & Unwin.-Lucas, G. (1980). Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (Film). Lucasfilm.

Sophocles was a friend of Herodotus and a contemporary of the other Greek tragedy playwrights Aeschylus and Euripides. He wrote over 120 plays and seven of those survive. The Theban Plays (Oedipus the King, Oedipus at Colonus, and Antigone) cover major events in the life of the mythical king Oedipus of Thebes and of his children.In this podcast episode, I talk about the two Sophoclean plays about Oedipus and share what I learned about Sophocles' discussion of prophecy, the Greek concept of a curse, and the little tiny light at the end of this disastrous tunnel of tragedy.I read translations by David Grene, Paul Woodruff, and Robert Fagles. Get full access to Books of Titans at booksoftitans.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode I look at the violent glory of war in Homer's Iliad, as detailed in Bernard Knox's introduction to the Robert Fagles translation of this classic epic poem of war, and several choice readings of the battle for the Argive ships.

May you one day look out across the vast sea and have a glimpse of the smoke from the cooking fires rising from your homeland of your Ithaca. Or may you one day, after many wanderings and hardships, wake up on its shore surrounded by the many gifts you were given. But even on that shore, it's fine to be suspicious and on guard. The Lectures Mentioned: The Odyssey of Homer by Elizabeth Vandiver, The Great Courses on Audible. Lecture 2. Books Mentioned:  The Odyssey. by Homer. Robert Fagles translation. The Power of the Myth. By Joseph Campbell The War of Art. By Stephen Pressfield Turning Pro. By Stephen Pressfield

Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts Let's face it the New Testament probably calls Jesus God (or god) a couple of times and so do early Christian authors in the second century. However, no one offers much of an explanation for what they mean by the title. Did early Christians think Jesus was God because he represented Yahweh? Did they think he was God because he shared the same eternal being as the Father? Did they think he was a god because that's just what they would call any immortalized human who lived in heaven? In this presentation I focus on the question from the perspective of Greco-Roman theology. Drawing on the work of David Litwa, Andrew Perriman, Barry Blackburn, and tons of ancient sources I seek to show how Mediterranean converts to Christianity would have perceived Jesus based on their cultural and religious assumptions. This presentation is from the 3rd Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference on October 20, 2023 in Springfield, OH. Here is the original pdf of this paper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Z3QbQ7dHc —— Links —— See more scholarly articles by Sean Finnegan Get the transcript of this episode Support Restitutio by donating here Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library. Who is Sean Finnegan?  Read his bio here Introduction When early Christian authors called Jesus “god” (or “God”) what did they mean?[1] Modern apologists routinely point to pre-Nicene quotations in order to prove that early Christians always believed in the deity of Christ, by which they mean that he is of the same substance (homoousios) as the Father. However, most historians agree that Christians before the fourth century simply didn't have the cognitive categories available yet to think of Christ in Nicene or Chalcedonian ways. If this consensus is correct, it behooves us to consider other options for defining what early Christian authors meant. The obvious place to go to get an answer to our initial question is the New Testament. However, as is well known, the handful of instances in which authors unambiguously applied god (θεός) to Christ are fraught with textual uncertainty, grammatical ambiguity, and hermeneutical elasticity.[2]  What's more, granting that these contested texts[3] all call Jesus “god” provides little insight into what they might mean by that phrase. Turning to the second century, the earliest handful of texts that say Jesus is god are likewise textually uncertain or terse.[4] We must wait until the second half of the second century and beyond to have more helpful material to examine. We know that in the meanwhile some Christians were saying Jesus was god. What did they mean? One promising approach is to analyze biblical texts that call others gods. We find helpful parallels with the word god (אֱלֹהִים) applied to Moses (Exod 7.1; 4.16), judges (Exod 21.6; 22.8-9), kings (Is 9.6; Ps 45.6), the divine council (Ps 82.1, 6), and angels (Ps 8.6). These are texts in which God imbues his agents with his authority to represent him in some way. This rare though significant way of calling a representative “god,” continues in the NT with Jesus' clever defense to his accusers in John 10.34-36. Lexicons[5] have long recognized this “Hebraistic” usage and recent study tools such as the New English Translation (NET)[6] and the Zondervan Illustrated Bible Background Commentary[7] also note this phenomenon. But, even if this agency perspective is the most natural reading of texts like Heb 1.8, later Christians, apart from one or two exceptions appear to be ignorant of this usage.[8] This interpretation was likely a casualty of the so-called parting of the ways whereby Christianity transitioned from a second-temple-Jewish movement to a Gentile-majority religion. As such, to grasp what early postapostolic Christians believed, we must turn our attention elsewhere. Michael Bird is right when he says, “Christian discourses about deity belong incontrovertibly in the Greco-Roman context because it provided the cultural encyclopedia that, in diverse ways, shaped the early church's Christological conceptuality and vocabulary.”[9] Learning Greco-Roman theology is not only important because that was the context in which early Christians wrote, but also because from the late first century onward, most of our Christian authors converted from that worldview. Rather than talking about the Hellenization of Christianity, we should begin by asking how Hellenists experienced Christianization. In other words, Greco-Roman beliefs about the gods were the default lens through which converts first saw Christ. In order to explore how Greco-Roman theology shaped what people believed about Jesus as god, we do well to begin by asking how they defined a god. Andrew Perriman offers a helpful starting point. “The gods,” he writes, “are mostly understood as corporeal beings, blessed with immortality, larger, more beautiful, and more powerful than their mortal analogues.”[10] Furthermore, there were lots of them! The sublunar realm was, in the words of Paula Fredriksen, “a god-congested place.”[11] What's more, “[S]harp lines and clearly demarcated boundaries between divinity and humanity were lacking."[12] Gods could appear as people and people could ascend to become gods. Comprehending what Greco-Roman people believed about gods coming down and humans going up will occupy the first part of this paper. Only once we've adjusted our thinking to their culture, will we walk through key moments in the life of Jesus of Nazareth to hear the story with ancient Mediterranean ears. Lastly, we'll consider the evidence from sources that think of Jesus in Greco-Roman categories. Bringing this all together we'll enumerate the primary ways to interpret the phrase “Jesus is god” available to Christians in the pre-Nicene period. Gods Coming Down and Humans Going Up The idea that a god would visit someone is not as unusual as it first sounds. We find plenty of examples of Yahweh himself or non-human representatives visiting people in the Hebrew Bible.[13] One psalmist even referred to angels or “heavenly beings” (ESV) as אֱלֹהִים (gods).[14] The Greco-Roman world too told stories about divine entities coming down to interact with people. Euripides tells about the time Zeus forced the god Apollo to become a human servant in the house of Admetus, performing menial labor as punishment for killing the Cyclopes (Alcestis 1). Baucis and Philemon offered hospitality to Jupiter and Mercury when they appeared in human form (Ovid, Metamorphoses 8.26-34). In Homer's Odyssey onlookers warn Antinous for flinging a stool against a stranger since “the gods do take on the look of strangers dropping in from abroad”[15] (17.534-9). Because they believed the boundary between the divine realm and the Earth was so permeable, Mediterranean people were always on guard for an encounter with a god in disguise. In addition to gods coming down, in special circumstances, humans could ascend and become gods too. Diodorus of Sicily demarcated two types of gods: those who are “eternal and imperishable, such as the sun and the moon” and “the other gods…terrestrial beings who attained to immortal honour”[16] (The Historical Library of Diodorus the Sicilian 6.1). By some accounts, even the Olympian gods, including Kronos and Uranus were once mortal men.[17] Among humans who could become divine, we find several distinguishable categories, including heroes, miracle workers, and rulers. We'll look at each briefly before considering how the story of Jesus would resonate with those holding a Greco-Roman worldview. Deified Heroes Cornutus the Stoic said, “[T]he ancients called heroes those who were so strong in body and soul that they seemed to be part of a divine race.” (Greek Theology 31)[18] At first this statement appears to be a mere simile, but he goes on to say of Heracles (Hercules), the Greek hero par excellence, “his services had earned him apotheosis” (ibid.). Apotheosis (or deification) is the process by which a human ascends into the divine realm. Beyond Heracles and his feats of strength, other exceptional individuals became deified for various reasons. Amphiarus was a seer who died in the battle at Thebes. After opening a chasm in the earth to swallow him in battle, “Zeus made him immortal”[19] (Apollodorus, Library of Greek Mythology 3.6). Pausanias says the custom of the inhabitants of Oropos was to drop coins into Amphiarus' spring “because this is where they say Amphiarus rose up as a god”[20] (Guide to Greece 1.34). Likewise, Strabo speaks about a shrine for Calchas, a deceased diviner from the Trojan war (Homer, Illiad 1.79-84), “where those consulting the oracle sacrifice a black ram to the dead and sleep in its hide”[21] (Strabo, Geography 6.3.9). Though the great majority of the dead were locked away in the lower world of Hades, leading a shadowy pitiful existence, the exceptional few could visit or speak from beyond the grave. Lastly, there was Zoroaster the Persian prophet who, according to Dio Chrysostom, was enveloped by fire while he meditated upon a mountain. He was unharmed and gave advice on how to properly make offerings to the gods (Dio Chrysostom, Discourses 36.40). The Psuedo-Clementine Homilies include a story about a lightning bolt striking and killing Zoroaster. After his devotees buried his body, they built a temple on the site, thinking that “his soul had been sent for by lightning” and they “worshipped him as a god”[22] (Homily 9.5.2). Thus, a hero could have extraordinary strength, foresight, or closeness to the gods resulting in apotheosis and ongoing worship and communication. Deified Miracle Workers Beyond heroes, Greco-Roman people loved to tell stories about deified miracle workers. Twice Orpheus rescued a ship from a storm by praying to the gods (Diodorus of Sicily 4.43.1f; 48.5f). After his death, surviving inscriptions indicate that he both received worship and was regarded as a god in several cities.[23] Epimenides “fell asleep in a cave for fifty-seven years”[24] (Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers 1.109). He also predicted a ten-year period of reprieve from Persian attack in Athens (Plato Laws 1.642D-E). Plato called him a divine man (θεῖος ἀνήρ) (ibid.) and Diogenes talked of Cretans sacrificing to him as a god (Diogenes, Lives 1.114). Iamblichus said Pythagoras was the son of Apollo and a mortal woman (Life of Pythagoras 2). Nonetheless, the soul of Pythagoras enjoyed multiple lives, having originally been “sent to mankind from the empire of Apollo”[25] (Life 2). Diogenes and Lucian enumerate the lives the pre-existent Pythagoras led, including Aethalides, Euphorbus, Hermotimus, and Pyrrhus (Diogenes, Life of Pythagoras 4; Lucian, The Cock 16-20). Hermes had granted Pythagoras the gift of “perpetual transmigration of his soul”[26] so he could remember his lives while living or dead (Diogenes, Life 4). Ancient sources are replete with Pythagorean miracle stories.[27] Porphyry mentions several, including taming a bear, persuading an ox to stop eating beans, and accurately predicting a catch of fish (Life of Pythagoras 23-25). Porphyry said Pythagoras accurately predicted earthquakes and “chased away a pestilence, suppressed violent winds and hail, [and] calmed storms on rivers and on seas” (Life 29).[28] Such miracles, argued the Pythagoreans made Pythagoras “a being superior to man, and not to a mere man” (Iamblichus, Life 28).[29] Iamblichus lays out the views of Pythagoras' followers, including that he was a god, a philanthropic daemon, the Pythian, the Hyperborean Apollo, a Paeon, a daemon inhabiting the moon, or an Olympian god (Life 6). Another pre-Socratic philosopher was Empedocles who studied under Pythagoras. To him sources attribute several miracles, including stopping a damaging wind, restoring the wind, bringing dry weather, causing it to rain, and even bringing someone back from Hades (Diogenes, Lives 8.59).[30] Diogenes records an incident in which Empedocles put a woman into a trance for thirty days before sending her away alive (8.61). He also includes a poem in which Empedocles says, “I am a deathless god, no longer mortal, I go among you honored by all, as is right”[31] (8.62). Asclepius was a son of the god Apollo and a human woman (Cornutus, Greek Theology 33). He was known for healing people from diseases and injuries (Pindar, Pythian 3.47-50). “[H]e invented any medicine he wished for the sick, and raised up the dead”[32] (Pausanias, Guide to Greece 2.26.4). However, as Diodorus relates, Hades complained to Zeus on account of Asclepius' diminishing his realm, which resulted in Zeus zapping Asclepius with a thunderbolt, killing him (4.71.2-3). Nevertheless, Asclepius later ascended into heaven to become a god (Hyginus, Fables 224; Cicero, Nature of the Gods 2.62).[33] Apollonius of Tyana was a famous first century miracle worker. According to Philostratus' account, the locals of Tyana regard Apollonius to be the son of Zeus (Life 1.6). Apollonius predicted many events, interpreted dreams, and knew private facts about people. He rebuked and ridiculed a demon, causing it to flee, shrieking as it went (Life 2.4).[34] He even once stopped a funeral procession and raised the deceased to life (Life 4.45). What's more he knew every human language (Life 1.19) and could understand what sparrows chirped to each other (Life 4.3). Once he instantaneously transported himself from Smyrna to Ephesus (Life 4.10). He claimed knowledge of his previous incarnation as the captain of an Egyptian ship (Life 3.23) and, in the end, Apollonius entered the temple of Athena and vanished, ascending from earth into heaven to the sound of a choir singing (Life 8.30). We have plenty of literary evidence that contemporaries and those who lived later regarded him as a divine man (Letters 48.3)[35] or godlike (ἰσόθεος) (Letters 44.1) or even just a god (θεός) (Life 5.24). Deified Rulers Our last category of deified humans to consider before seeing how this all relates to Jesus is rulers. Egyptians, as indicated from the hieroglyphs left in the pyramids, believed their deceased kings to enjoy afterlives as gods. They could become star gods or even hunt and consume other gods to absorb their powers.[36] The famous Macedonian conqueror, Alexander the Great, carried himself as a god towards the Persians though Plutarch opines, “[he] was not at all vain or deluded but rather used belief in his divinity to enslave others”[37] (Life of Alexander 28). This worship continued after his death, especially in Alexandria where Ptolemy built a tomb and established a priesthood to conduct religious honors to the deified ruler. Even the emperor Trajan offered a sacrifice to the spirit of Alexander (Cassius Dio, Roman History 68.30). Another interesting example is Antiochus I of Comagene who called himself “Antiochus the just [and] manifest god, friend of the Romans [and] friend of the Greeks.”[38] His tomb boasted four colossal figures seated on thrones: Zeus, Heracles, Apollo, and himself. The message was clear: Antiochus I wanted his subjects to recognize his place among the gods after death. Of course, the most relevant rulers for the Christian era were the Roman emperors. The first official Roman emperor Augustus deified his predecessor, Julius Caesar, celebrating his apotheosis with games (Suetonius, Life of Julius Caesar 88). Only five years after Augustus died, eastern inhabitants of the Roman Empire at Priene happily declared “the birthday of the god Augustus” (ἡ γενέθλιος ἡμέρα τοῦ θεοῦ)[39] to be the start of their provincial year. By the time of Tacitus, a century after Augustus died, the wealthy in Rome had statues of the first emperor in their gardens for worship (Annals 1.73). The Roman historian Appian explained that the Romans regularly deify emperors at death “provided he has not been a despot or a disgrace”[40] (The Civil Wars 2.148).  In other words, deification was the default setting for deceased emperors. Pliny the Younger lays it on pretty thick when he describes the process. He says Nero deified Claudius to expose him; Titus deified Vespasian and Domitian so he could be the son and brother of gods. However, Trajan deified Nerva because he genuinely believed him to be more than a human (Panegyric 11). In our little survey, we've seen three main categories of deified humans: heroes, miracle workers, and good rulers. These “conceptions of deity,” writes David Litwa, “were part of the “preunderstanding” of Hellenistic culture.”[41] He continues: If actual cases of deification were rare, traditions of deification were not. They were the stuff of heroic epic, lyric song, ancient mythology, cultic hymns, Hellenistic novels, and popular plays all over the first-century Mediterranean world. Such discourses were part of mainstream, urban culture to which most early Christians belonged. If Christians were socialized in predominantly Greco-Roman environments, it is no surprise that they employed and adapted common traits of deities and deified men to exalt their lord to divine status.[42] Now that we've attuned our thinking to Mediterranean sensibilities about gods coming down in the shape of humans and humans experiencing apotheosis to permanently dwell as gods in the divine realm, our ears are attuned to hear the story of Jesus with Greco-Roman ears. Hearing the Story of Jesus with Greco-Roman Ears How would second or third century inhabitants of the Roman empire have categorized Jesus? Taking my cue from Litwa's treatment in Iesus Deus, I'll briefly work through Jesus' conception, transfiguration, miracles, resurrection, and ascension. Miraculous Conception Although set within the context of Jewish messianism, Christ's miraculous birth would have resonated differently with Greco-Roman people. Stories of gods coming down and having intercourse with women are common in classical literature. That these stories made sense of why certain individuals were so exceptional is obvious. For example, Origen related a story about Apollo impregnating Amphictione who then gave birth to Plato (Against Celsus 1.37). Though Mary's conception did not come about through intercourse with a divine visitor, the fact that Jesus had no human father would call to mind divine sonship like Pythagoras or Asclepius. Celsus pointed out that the ancients “attributed a divine origin to Perseus, and Amphion, and Aeacus, and Minos” (Origen, Against Celsus 1.67). Philostratus records a story of the Egyptian god Proteus saying to Apollonius' mother that she would give birth to himself (Life of Apollonius of Tyana 1.4). Since people were primed to connect miraculous origins with divinity, typical hearers of the birth narratives of Matthew or Luke would likely think that this baby might be either be a descended god or a man destined to ascend to become a god. Miracles and Healing As we've seen, Jesus' miracles would not have sounded unbelievable or even unprecedent to Mediterranean people. Like Jesus, Orpheus and Empedocles calmed storms, rescuing ships. Though Jesus provided miraculous guidance on how to catch fish, Pythagoras foretold the number of fish in a great catch. After the fishermen painstakingly counted them all, they were astounded that when they threw them back in, they were still alive (Porphyry, Life 23-25). Jesus' ability to foretell the future, know people's thoughts, and cast out demons all find parallels in Apollonius of Tyana. As for resurrecting the dead, we have the stories of Empedocles, Asclepius, and Apollonius. The last of which even stopped a funeral procession to raise the dead, calling to mind Jesus' deeds in Luke 7.11-17. When Lycaonians witnessed Paul's healing of a man crippled from birth, they cried out, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men” (Acts 14.11). Another time when no harm befell Paul after a poisonous snake bit him on Malta, Gentile onlookers concluded “he was a god” (Acts 28.6). Barry Blackburn makes the following observation: [I]n view of the tendency, most clearly seen in the Epimenidean, Pythagorean, and Apollonian traditions, to correlate impressive miracle-working with divine status, one may justifiably conclude that the evangelical miracle traditions would have helped numerous gentile Christians to arrive at and maintain belief in Jesus' divine status.[43] Transfiguration Ancient Mediterranean inhabitants believed that the gods occasionally came down disguised as people. Only when gods revealed their inner brilliant natures could people know that they weren't mere humans. After his ship grounded on the sands of Krisa, Apollo leaped from the ship emitting flashes of fire “like a star in the middle of day…his radiance shot to heaven”[44] (Homeric Hymns, Hymn to Apollo 440). Likewise, Aphrodite appeared in shining garments, brighter than a fire and shimmering like the moon (Hymn to Aphrodite 85-89). When Demeter appeared to Metaneira, she initially looked like an old woman, but she transformed herself before her. “Casting old age away…a delightful perfume spread…a radiance shone out far from the goddess' immortal flesh…and the solid-made house was filled with a light like the lightning-flash”[45] (Hymn to Demeter 275-280). Homer wrote about Odysseus' transformation at the golden wand of Athena in which his clothes became clean, he became taller, and his skin looked younger. His son, Telemachus cried out, “Surely you are some god who rules the vaulting skies”[46] (Odyssey 16.206). Each time the observers conclude the transfigured person is a god. Resurrection & Ascension In defending the resurrection of Jesus, Theophilus of Antioch said, “[Y]ou believe that Hercules, who burned himself, lives; and that Aesculapius [Asclepius], who was struck with lightning, was raised”[47] (Autolycus 1.13). Although Hercules' physical body burnt, his transformed pneumatic body continued on as the poet Callimachus said, “under a Phrygian oak his limbs had been deified”[48] (Callimachus, Hymn to Artemis 159). Others thought Hercules ascended to heaven in his burnt body, which Asclepius subsequently healed (Lucian, Dialogue of the Gods 13). After his ascent, Diodorus relates how the people first sacrificed to him “as to a hero” then in Athens they began to honor him “with sacrifices like as to a god”[49] (The Historical Library 4.39). As for Asclepius, his ascension resulted in his deification as Cyprian said, “Aesculapius is struck by lightning, that he may rise into a god”[50] (On the Vanity of Idols 2). Romulus too “was torn to pieces by the hands of a hundred senators”[51] and after death ascended into heaven and received worship (Arnobius, Against the Heathen 1.41). Livy tells of how Romulus was “carried up on high by a whirlwind” and that immediately afterward “every man present hailed him as a god and son of a god”[52] (The Early History of Rome 1.16). As we can see from these three cases—Hercules, Asclepius, and Romulus—ascent into heaven was a common way of talking about deification. For Cicero, this was an obvious fact. People “who conferred outstanding benefits were translated to heaven through their fame and our gratitude”[53] (Nature 2.62). Consequently, Jesus' own resurrection and ascension would have triggered Gentiles to intuit his divinity. Commenting on the appearance of the immortalized Christ to the eleven in Galilee, Wendy Cotter said, “It is fair to say that the scene found in [Mat] 28:16-20 would be understood by a Greco-Roman audience, Jew or Gentile, as an apotheosis of Jesus.”[54] Although I beg to differ with Cotter's whole cloth inclusion of Jews here, it's hard to see how else non-Jews would have regarded the risen Christ. Litwa adds Rev 1.13-16 “[W]here he [Jesus] appears with all the accoutrements of the divine: a shining face, an overwhelming voice, luminescent clothing, and so on.”[55] In this brief survey we've seen that several key events in the story of Jesus told in the Gospels would have caused Greco-Roman hearers to intuit deity, including his divine conception, miracles, healing ministry, transfiguration, resurrection, and ascension. In their original context of second temple Judaism, these very same incidents would have resonated quite differently. His divine conception authenticated Jesus as the second Adam (Luke 3.38; Rom 5.14; 1 Cor 15.45) and God's Davidic son (2 Sam 7.14; Ps 2.7; Lk 1.32, 35). If Matthew or Luke wanted readers to understand that Jesus was divine based on his conception and birth, they failed to make such intentions explicit in the text. Rather, the birth narratives appear to have a much more modest aim—to persuade readers that Jesus had a credible claim to be Israel's messiah. His miracles show that “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power…for God was with him” (Acts 10.38; cf. Jn 3.2; 10.32, 38). Rather than concluding Jesus to be a god, Jewish witnesses to his healing of a paralyzed man “glorified God, who had given such authority to men” (Mat 9.8). Over and over, especially in the Gospel of John, Jesus directs people's attention to his Father who was doing the works in and through him (Jn 5.19, 30; 8.28; 12.49; 14.10). Seeing Jesus raise someone from the dead suggested to his original Jewish audience that “a great prophet has arisen among us” (Lk 7.16). The transfiguration, in its original setting, is an eschatological vision not a divine epiphany. Placement in the synoptic Gospels just after Jesus' promise that some there would not die before seeing the kingdom come sets the hermeneutical frame. “The transfiguration,” says William Lane, “was a momentary, but real (and witnessed) manifestation of Jesus' sovereign power which pointed beyond itself to the Parousia, when he will come ‘with power and glory.'”[56] If eschatology is the foreground, the background for the transfiguration was Moses' ascent of Sinai when he also encountered God and became radiant.[57] Viewed from the lenses of Moses' ascent and the eschaton, the transfiguration of Jesus is about his identity as God's definitive chosen ruler, not about any kind of innate divinity. Lastly, the resurrection and ascension validated Jesus' messianic claims to be the ruler of the age to come (Acts 17.31; Rom 1.4). Rather than concluding Jesus was deity, early Jewish Christians concluded these events showed that “God has made him both Lord and Christ” (Acts 2.36). The interpretative backgrounds for Jesus' ascension were not stories about Heracles, Asclepius, or Romulus. No, the key oracle that framed the Israelite understanding was the messianic psalm in which Yahweh told David's Lord to “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool” (Psalm 110.1). The idea is of a temporary sojourn in heaven until exercising the authority of his scepter to rule over earth from Zion. Once again, the biblical texts remain completely silent about deification. But even if the original meanings of Jesus' birth, ministry, transfiguration, resurrection, and ascension have messianic overtones when interpreted within the Jewish milieu, these same stories began to communicate various ideas of deity to Gentile converts in the generations that followed. We find little snippets from historical sources beginning in the second century and growing with time. Evidence of Belief in Jesus' as a Greco-Roman Deity To begin with, we have two non-Christian instances where Romans regarded Jesus as a deity within typical Greco-Roman categories. The first comes to us from Tertullian and Eusebius who mention an intriguing story about Tiberius' request to the Roman senate to deify Christ. Convinced by “intelligence from Palestine of events which had clearly shown the truth of Christ's divinity”[58] Tiberius proposed the matter to the senate (Apology 5). Eusebius adds that Tiberius learned that “many believed him to be a god in rising from the dead”[59] (Church History 2.2). As expected, the senate rejected the proposal. I mention this story, not because I can establish its historicity, but because it portrays how Tiberius would have thought about Jesus if he had heard about his miracles and resurrection. Another important incident is from one of the governor Pliny the Younger's letters to the emperor Trajan. Having investigated some people accused of Christianity, he found “they had met regularly before dawn on a fixed day to chant verses alternately amongst themselves in honour of Christ as if to a god”[60] (Letter 96). To an outside imperial observer like Pliny, the Christians believed in a man who had performed miracles, defeated death, and now lived in heaven. Calling him a god was just the natural way of talking about such a person. Pliny would not have thought Jesus was superior to the deified Roman emperors much less Zeus or the Olympic gods. If he believed in Jesus at all, he would have regarded him as another Mediterranean prophet who escaped Hades to enjoy apotheosis. Another interesting text to consider is the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. This apocryphal text tells the story of Jesus' childhood between the ages of five and twelve. Jesus is impetuous, powerful, and brilliant. Unsure to conclude that Jesus was “either god or angel,”[61] his teacher remands him to Joseph's custody (7). Later, a crowd of onlookers ponders whether the child is a god or a heavenly messenger after he raises an infant from the dead (17). A year later Jesus raised a construction man who had fallen to his death back to life (18). Once again, the crowd asked if the child was from heaven. Although some historians are quick to assume the lofty conceptions of Justin and his successors about the logos were commonplace in the early Christianity, Litwa points out, “The spell of the Logos could only bewitch a very small circle of Christian elites… In IGT, we find a Jesus who is divine according to different canons, the canons of popular Mediterranean theology.”[62] Another important though often overlooked scholarly group of Christians in the second century was led by a certain Theodotus of Byzantium.[63] Typically referred to by their heresiological label “Theodotians,” these dynamic monarchians lived in Rome and claimed that they held to the original Christology before it had been corrupted under Bishop Zephyrinus (Eusebius, Church History 5.28). Theodotus believed in the virgin birth, but not in his pre-existence or that he was god/God (Pseudo-Hippolytus, Refutation of All Heresies 7.35.1-2; 10.23.1-2). He thought that Jesus was not able to perform any miracles until his baptism when he received the Christ/Spirit. Pseudo-Hippolytus goes on to say, “But they do not want him to have become a god when the Spirit descended. Others say that he became a god after he rose from the dead.”[64] This last tantalizing remark implies that the Theodotians could affirm Jesus as a god after his resurrection though they denied his pre-existence. Although strict unitarians, they could regard Jesus as a god in that he was an ascended immortalized being who lived in heaven—not equal to the Father, but far superior to all humans on earth. Justin Martyr presents another interesting case to consider. Thoroughly acquainted with Greco-Roman literature and especially the philosophy of Plato, Justin sees Christ as a god whom the Father begot before all other creatures. He calls him “son, or wisdom, or angel, or god, or lord, or word”[65] (Dialogue with Trypho 61).  For Justin Christ is “at the same time angel and god and lord and man”[66] (59). Jesus was “of old the Word, appearing at one time in the form of fire, at another under the guise of incorporeal beings, but now, at the will of God, after becoming man for mankind”[67] (First Apology 63). In fact, Justin is quite comfortable to compare Christ to deified heroes and emperors. He says, “[W]e propose nothing new or different from that which you say about the so-called sons of Jupiter [Zeus] by your respected writers… And what about the emperors who die among you, whom you think worthy to be deified?”[68] (21). He readily accepts the parallels with Mercury, Perseus, Asclepius, Bacchus, and Hercules, but argues that Jesus is superior to them (22).[69] Nevertheless, he considered Jesus to be in “a place second to the unchanging and eternal God”[70] (13). The Father is “the Most True God” whereas the Son is he “who came forth from Him”[71] (6). Even as lates as Origen, Greco-Roman concepts of deity persist. In responding to Celsus' claim that no god or son of God has ever come down, Origen responds by stating such a statement would overthrow the stories of Pythian Apollo, Asclepius, and the other gods who descended (Against Celsus 5.2). My point here is not to say Origen believed in all the old myths, but to show how Origen reached for these stories as analogies to explain the incarnation of the logos. When Celsus argued that he would rather believe in the deity of Asclepius, Dionysus, and Hercules than Christ, Origen responded with a moral rather than ontological argument (3.42). He asks how these gods have improved the characters of anyone. Origen admits Celsus' argument “which places the forenamed individuals upon an equality with Jesus” might have force, however in light of the disreputable behavior of these gods, “how could you any longer say, with any show of reason, that these men, on putting aside their mortal body, became gods rather than Jesus?”[72] (3.42). Origen's Christology is far too broad and complicated to cover here. Undoubtedly, his work on eternal generation laid the foundation on which fourth century Christians could build homoousion Christology. Nevertheless, he retained some of the earlier subordinationist impulses of his forebearers. In his book On Prayer, he rebukes praying to Jesus as a crude error, instead advocating prayer to God alone (10). In his Commentary on John he repeatedly asserts that the Father is greater than his logos (1.40; 2.6; 6.23). Thus, Origen is a theologian on the seam of the times. He's both a subordinationist and a believer in the Son's eternal and divine ontology. Now, I want to be careful here. I'm not saying that all early Christians believed Jesus was a deified man like Asclepius or a descended god like Apollo or a reincarnated soul like Pythagoras. More often than not, thinking Christians whose works survive until today tended to eschew the parallels, simultaneously elevating Christ as high as possible while demoting the gods to mere demons. Still, Litwa is inciteful when he writes: It seems likely that early Christians shared the widespread cultural assumption that a resurrected, immortalized being was worthy of worship and thus divine. …Nonetheless there is a difference…Jesus, it appears, was never honored as an independent deity. Rather, he was always worshiped as Yahweh's subordinate. Naturally Heracles and Asclepius were Zeus' subordinates, but they were also members of a larger divine family. Jesus does not enter a pantheon but assumes a distinctive status as God's chief agent and plenipotentiary. It is this status that, to Christian insiders, placed Jesus in a category far above the likes of Heracles, Romulus, and Asclepius who were in turn demoted to the rank of δαίμονες [daimons].[73] Conclusion I began by asking the question, "What did early Christians mean by saying Jesus is god?" We noted that the ancient idea of agency (Jesus is God/god because he represents Yahweh), though present in Hebrew and Christian scripture, didn't play much of a role in how Gentile Christians thought about Jesus. Or if it did, those texts did not survive. By the time we enter the postapostolic era, a majority of Christianity was Gentile and little communication occurred with the Jewish Christians that survived in the East. As such, we turned our attention to Greco-Roman theology to tune our ears to hear the story of Jesus the way they would have. We learned about their multifaceted array of divinities. We saw that gods can come down and take the form of humans and humans can go up and take the form of gods. We found evidence for this kind of thinking in both non-Christian and Christian sources in the second and third centuries. Now it is time to return to the question I began with: “When early Christian authors called Jesus “god” what did they mean?” We saw that the idea of a deified man was present in the non-Christian witnesses of Tiberius and Pliny but made scant appearance in our Christian literature except for the Theodotians. As for the idea that a god came down to become a man, we found evidence in The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Justin, and Origen.[74] Of course, we find a spectrum within this view, from Justin's designation of Jesus as a second god to Origen's more philosophically nuanced understanding. Still, it's worth noting as R. P. C. Hanson observed that, “With the exception of Athanasius virtually every theologian, East and West, accepted some form of subordinationism at least up to the year 355.”[75] Whether any Christians before Alexander and Athanasius of Alexandria held to the sophisticated idea of consubstantiality depends on showing evidence of the belief that the Son was coequal, coeternal, and coessential with the Father prior to Nicea. (Readers interested in the case for this view should consult Michael Bird's Jesus among the Gods in which he attempted the extraordinary feat of finding proto-Nicene Christology in the first two centuries, a task typically associated with maverick apologists not peer-reviewed historians.) In conclusion, the answer to our driving question about the meaning of “Jesus as god” is that the answer depends on whom we ask. If we ask the Theodotians, Jesus is a god because that's just what one calls an immortalized man who lives in heaven.[76] If we ask those holding a docetic Christology, the answer is that a god came down in appearance as a man. If we ask a logos subordinationist, they'll tell us that Jesus existed as the god through whom the supreme God created the universe before he became a human being. If we ask Tertullian, Jesus is god because he derives his substance from the Father, though he has a lesser portion of divinity.[77] If we ask Athanasius, he'll wax eloquent about how Jesus is of the same substance as the Father equal in status and eternality. The bottom line is that there was not one answer to this question prior to the fourth century. Answers depend on whom we ask and when they lived. Still, we can't help but wonder about the more tantalizing question of development. Which Christology was first and which ones evolved under social, intellectual, and political pressures? In the quest to specify the various stages of development in the Christologies of the ante-Nicene period, this Greco-Roman perspective may just provide the missing link between the reserved and limited way that the NT applies theos to Jesus in the first century and the homoousian view that eventually garnered imperial support in the fourth century. How easy would it have been for fresh converts from the Greco-Roman world to unintentionally mishear the story of Jesus? How easy would it have been for them to fit Jesus into their own categories of descended gods and ascended humans? With the unmooring of Gentile Christianity from its Jewish heritage, is it any wonder that Christologies began to drift out to sea? Now I'm not suggesting that all Christians went through a steady development from a human Jesus to a pre-existent Christ, to an eternal God the Son, to the Chalcedonian hypostatic union. As I mentioned above, plenty of other options were around and every church had its conservatives in addition to its innovators. The story is messy and uneven with competing views spread across huge geographic distances. Furthermore, many Christians probably were content to leave such theological nuances fuzzy, rather than seeking doctrinal precision on Christ's relation to his God and Father. Whatever the case may be, we dare not ignore the influence of Greco-Roman theology in our accounts of Christological development in the Mediterranean world of the first three centuries.    Bibliography The Homeric Hymns. Translated by Michael Crudden. New York, NY: Oxford, 2008. Antioch, Theophilus of. To Autolycus. Translated by Marcus Dods. Vol. 2. Ante-Nicene Fathers. Edited by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2001. Aphrahat. The Demonstrations. Translated by Ellen Muehlberger. Vol. 3. The Cambridge Edition of Early Christian Writings. 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End Notes [1] For the remainder of this paper, I will use the lower case “god” for all references to deity outside of Yahweh, the Father of Christ. I do this because all our ancient texts lack capitalization and our modern capitalization rules imply a theology that is anachronistic and unhelpful for the present inquiry. [2] Christopher Kaiser wrote, “Explicit references to Jesus as ‘God' in the New Testament are very few, and even those few are generally plagued with uncertainties of either text or interpretation.” Christopher B. Kaiser, The Doctrine of God: A Historical Survey (London: Marshall Morgan & Scott, 1982), 29. Other scholars such as Raymond Brown (Jesus: God and Man), Jason David BeDuhn (Truth in Translation), and Brian Wright (“Jesus as θεός: A Textual Examination” in Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament) have expressed similar sentiments. [3] John 20.28; Hebrews 1.8; Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; Romans 9.5; and 1 John 5.20. [4] See Polycarp's Epistle to the Philippians 12.2 where a manuscript difference determines whether or not Polycarp called Jesus god or lord. Textual corruption is most acute in Igantius' corpus. Although it's been common to dismiss the long recension as an “Arian” corruption, claiming the middle recension to be as pure and uncontaminated as freshly fallen snow upon which a foot has never trodden, such an uncritical view is beginning to give way to more honest analysis. See Paul Gilliam III's Ignatius of Antioch and the Arian Controversy (Leiden: Brill, 2017) for a recent treatment of Christological corruption in the middle recension. [5] See the entries for  אֱלֹהִיםand θεός in the Hebrew Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (HALOT), the Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon (BDB), Eerdmans Dictionary, Kohlenberger/Mounce Concise Hebrew-Aramaic Dictionary of the Old Testament, the Bauer Danker Arndt Gingrich Lexicon (BDAG), Friberg Greek Lexicon, and Thayer's Greek Lexicon. [6] See notes on Is 9.6 and Ps 45.6. [7] ZIBBC: “In what sense can the king be called “god”? By virtue of his divine appointment, the king in the ancient Near East stood before his subjects as a representative of the divine realm. …In fact, the term “gods“ (ʾelōhı̂m) is used of priests who functioned as judges in the Israelite temple judicial system (Ex. 21:6; 22:8-9; see comments on 58:1; 82:6-7).” John W. Hilber, “Psalms,” in The Minor Prophets, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, vol. 5 of Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament. ed. John H. Walton (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2009), 358. [8] Around a.d. 340, Aphrahat of Persia advised his fellow Christians to reply to Jewish critics who questioned why “You call a human being ‘God'” (Demonstrations 17.1). He said, “For the honored name of the divinity is granted event ot rightoues human beings, when they are worthy of being called by it…[W]hen he chose Moses, his friend and his beloved…he called him “god.” …We call him God, just as he named Moses with his own name…The name of the divinity was granted for great honor in the world. To whom he wishes, God appoints it” (17.3, 4, 5). Aphrahat, The Demonstrations, trans., Ellen Muehlberger, vol. 3, The Cambridge Edition of Early Christian Writings (Cambridge, UK: Cambridge, 2022), 213-15. In the Clementine Recognitions we find a brief mention of the concept:  “Therefore the name God is applied in three ways: either because he to whom it is given is truly God, or because he is the servant of him who is truly; and for the honour of the sender, that his authority may be full, he that is sent is called by the name of him who sends, as is often done in respect of angels: for when they appear to a man, if he is a wise and intelligent man, he asks the name of him who appears to him, that he may acknowledge at once the honour of the sent, and the authority of the sender” (2.42). Pseudo-Clement, Recognitions, trans., Thomas Smith, vol. 8, Ante Nicene Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2003). [9] Michael F. Bird, Jesus among the Gods (Waco, TX: Baylor, 2022), 13. [10] Andrew Perriman, In the Form of a God, Studies in Early Christology, ed. David Capes Michael Bird, and Scott Harrower (Eugene, OR: Cascade Books, 2022), 130. [11] Paula Fredriksen, "How High Can Early High Christology Be?," in Monotheism and Christology in Greco-Roman Antiquity, ed. Matthew V. Novenson, vol. 180 (Leiden: Brill, 2020), 296, 99. [12] ibid. [13] See Gen 18.1; Ex 3.2; 24.11; Is 6.1; Ezk 1.28. [14] Compare the Masoretic Text of Psalm 8.6 to the Septuagint and Hebrews 2.7. [15] Homer, The Odyssey, trans., Robert Fagles (New York, NY: Penguin, 1997), 370. [16] Diodorus Siculus, The Historical Library, trans., Charles Henry Oldfather, vol. 1 (Sophron Editor, 2017), 340. [17] Uranus met death at the brutal hands of his own son, Kronos who emasculated him and let bleed out, resulting in his deification (Eusebius, Preparation for the Gospel 1.10). Later on, after suffering a fatal disease, Kronos himself experienced deification, becoming the planet Saturn (ibid.). Zeus married Hera and they produced Osiris (Dionysus), Isis (Demeter), Typhon, Apollo, and Aphrodite (ibid. 2.1). [18] Lucius Annaeus Cornutus, Greek Theology, trans., George Boys-Stones, Greek Theology, Fragments, and Testimonia (Atlanta, GA: SBL, 2018), 123. [19] Apollodorus, The Library of Greek Mythology, trans., Robin Hard (Oxford, UK: Oxford, 1998), 111. [20] Pausanias, Guide to Greece, trans., Peter Levi (London, UK: Penguin, 1979), 98. [21] Strabo, The Geography, trans., Duane W. Roller (Cambridge, UK: Cambridge, 2020), 281. [22] Psuedo-Clement, Homilies, trans., Peter Peterson, vol. 8, Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1897). Greek: “αὐτὸν δὲ ὡς θεὸν ἐθρήσκευσαν” from Jacques Paul Migne, Patrologia Graeca, taken from Accordance (PSCLEMH-T), OakTree Software, Inc., 2018, Version 1.1. [23] See Barry Blackburn, Theios Aner and the Markan Miracle Traditions (Tübingen, Germany: J. C. B. Mohr, 1991), 32. [24] Diogenes Laertius, Lives of the Eminent Philosophers, trans., Pamela Mensch (New York, NY: Oxford, 2020), 39. [25] Iamblichus, Life of Pythagoras, trans., Thomas Taylor, Iamblichus' Life of Pythagoras (Delhi, IN: Zinc Read, 2023), 2. [26] Diogenes Laertius, Life of Pythagoras, trans., Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie, The Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library (Grand Rapids, MI: Phanes Press, 1988), 142. [27] See the list in Blackburn, 39. He corroborates miracle stories from Diogenus Laertius, Iamblichus, Apollonius, Nicomachus, and Philostratus. [28] Porphyry, Life of Pythagoras, trans., Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie, The Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library (Grand Rapids, MI: Phanes Press, 1988), 128-9. [29] Iamblichus,  68. [30] What I call “resurrection” refers to the phrase, “Thou shalt bring back from Hades a dead man's strength.” Diogenes Laertius 8.2.59, trans. R. D. Hicks. [31] Laertius, "Lives of the Eminent Philosophers," 306. Two stories of his deification survive: in one Empedocles disappears in the middle of the night after hearing an extremely loud voice calling his name. After this the people concluded that they should sacrifice to him since he had become a god (8.68). In the other account, Empedocles climbs Etna and leaps into the fiery volcanic crater “to strengthen the rumor that he had become a god” (8.69). [32] Pausanias,  192. Sextus Empiricus says Asclepius raised up people who had died at Thebes as well as raising up the dead body of Tyndaros (Against the Professors 1.261). [33] Cicero adds that the Arcadians worship Asclepius (Nature 3.57). [34] In another instance, he confronted and cast out a demon from a licentious young man (Life 4.20). [35] The phrase is “περὶ ἐμοῦ καὶ θεοῖς εἴρηται ὡς περὶ θείου ἀνδρὸς.” Philostratus, Letters of Apollonius, vol. 458, Loeb Classical Library (Cambridge, MA: Harvard, 2006). [36] See George Hart, The Routledge Dictionary of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses, 2nd ed. (Oxford, UK: Routledge, 2005), 3. [37] Plutarch, Life of Alexander, trans., Ian Scott-Kilvert and Timothy E. Duff, The Age of Alexander (London, UK: Penguin, 2011), 311. Arrian includes a story about Anaxarchus advocating paying divine honors to Alexander through prostration. The Macedonians refused but the Persian members of his entourage “rose from their seats and one by one grovelled on the floor before the King.” Arrian, The Campaigns of Alexander, trans., Aubrey De Sélincourt (London, UK: Penguin, 1971), 222. [38] Translation my own from “Ἀντίοχος ὁ Θεὸς Δίκαιος Ἐπιφανὴς Φιλορωμαῖος Φιλέλλην.” Inscription at Nemrut Dağ, accessible at https://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php?page=cimrm32. See also https://zeugma.packhum.org/pdfs/v1ch09.pdf. [39] Greek taken from W. Dittenberger, Orientis Graecae Inscriptiones Selectae, vol. 2 (Hildesheim: Olms, 1960), 48-60. Of particular note is the definite article before θεός. They didn't celebrate the birthday of a god, but the birthday of the god. [40] Appian, The Civil Wars, trans., John Carter (London, UK: Penguin, 1996), 149. [41] M. David Litwa, Iesus Deus (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 2014), 20. [42] ibid. [43] Blackburn, 92-3. [44] The Homeric Hymns, trans., Michael Crudden (New York, NY: Oxford, 2008), 38. [45] "The Homeric Hymns," 14. [46] Homer,  344. [47] Theophilus of Antioch, To Autolycus, trans., Marcus Dods, vol. 2, Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2001). [48] Callimachus, Hymn to Artemis, trans., Susan A. Stephens, Callimachus: The Hymns (New York, NY: Oxford, 2015), 119. [49] Siculus,  234. [50] Cyprian, Treatise 6: On the Vanity of Idols, trans., Ernest Wallis, vol. 5, Ante-Nicene Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1995). [51] Arnobius, Against the Heathen, trans., Hamilton Bryce and Hugh Campbell, vol. 6, Ante-Nicene Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1995). [52] Livy, The Early History of Rome, trans., Aubrey De Sélincourt (London, UK: Penguin, 2002), 49. [53] Cicero, The Nature of the Gods, trans., Patrick Gerard Walsh (Oxford, UK: Oxford, 2008), 69. [54] Wendy Cotter, "Greco-Roman Apotheosis Traditions and the Resurrection Appearances in Matthew," in The Gospel of Matthew in Current Study, ed. David E. Aune (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2001), 149. [55] Litwa, 170. [56] William L. Lane, The Gospel of Mark, Nicnt, ed. F. F. Bruce Ned B. Stonehouse, and Gordon D. Fee (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1974). [57] “Recent commentators have stressed that the best background for understanding the Markan transfiguration is the story of Moses' ascent up Mount Sinai (Exod. 24 and 34).” Litwa, 123. [58] Tertullian, Apology, trans. S. Thelwall, vol. 3, Ante-Nicene Fathers, ed. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2003). [59] Eusebius, The Church History, trans. Paul L. Maier (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 2007), 54. [60] Pliny the Younger, The Letters of the Younger Pliny, trans., Betty Radice (London: Penguin, 1969), 294. [61] Pseudo-Thomas, Infancy Gospel of Thomas, trans., James Orr (Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott Co., 1903), 25. [62] Litwa, 83. [63] For sources on Theodotus, see Pseduo-Hippolytus, Refutation of All Heresies 7.35.1-2; 10.23.1-2; Pseudo-Tertullian, Against All Heresies 8.2; Eusebius, Church History 5.28. [64] Pseudo-Hippolytus, Refutation of All Heresies, trans., David Litwa (Atlanta, GA: SBL, 2016), 571. [65] I took the liberty to decapitalize these appellatives. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, trans. Thomas B. Falls (Washington, DC: Catholic University of America Press, 2003), 244. [66] Justin Martyr, 241. (Altered, see previous footnote.) [67] Justin Martyr, 102. [68] Justin Martyr, 56-7. [69] Arnobius makes a similar argument in Against the Heathen 1.38-39 “Is he not worthy to be called a god by us and felt to be a god on account of the favor or such great benefits? For if you have enrolled Liber among the gods because he discovered the use of wine, and Ceres the use of bread, Aesculapius the use of medicines, Minerva the use of oil, Triptolemus plowing, and Hercules because he conquered and restrained beasts, thieves, and the many-headed hydra…So then, ought we not to consider Christ a god, and to bestow upon him all the worship due to his divinity?” Translation from Litwa, 105. [70] Justin Martyr, 46. [71] Justin Martyr, 39. [72] Origen, Against Celsus, trans. Frederick Crombie, vol. 4, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2003). [73] Litwa, 173. [74] I could easily multiply examples of this by looking at Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, and many others. [75] The obvious exception to Hanson's statement were thinkers like Sabellius and Praxeas who believed that the Father himself came down as a human being. R. P. C. Hanson, Search for a Christian Doctrine of God (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2007), xix. [76] Interestingly, even some of the biblical unitarians of the period were comfortable with calling Jesus god, though they limited his divinity to his post-resurrection life. [77] Tertullian writes, “[T]he Father is not the same as the Son, since they differ one from the other in the mode of their being. For the Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as He Himself acknowledges: “My Father is greater than I.” In the Psalm His inferiority is described as being “a little lower than the angels.” Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son” (Against Praxeas 9). Tertullian, Against Praxeas, trans., Holmes, vol. 3, Ante Nice Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2003).

Today's show is about exploring the archaic worldview. When the ancient way of seeing is recovered, the sacred is made visible.    For more content or to work with Rick Alexander, visit www.rickalexander.com To sign up for the upcoming Psychology of Cannabis workshop, click here     Sources mentioned in today's show: Hatab, Lawrence J. Myth and Philosophy: A Contest of Truths. Open Court, 1992.  Homer, Iliad. Translated by Robert Fagles, Penguin Classics, 2nd edition, 1998. Krell, David Farrell. “Martin Heidegger the Anaximander Fragment.” Arion: A Journal of Humanities and the Classics, vol. 1, no. 4, 1973, pp. 576–626 Leland, John. “How Loneliness Is Damaging Our Health.” The New York Times, The New York Times, 20 Apr. 2022. Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm, et al. The Birth of Tragedy, and Other Writings. Cambridge, University Press, 2019.  Vervaeke, John. Awakening from the Meaning Crisis, YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY.

It's time for another in-depth author interview on Sonitotum with Matthew Wayne Selznick!  Enjoy a conversation with historical fantasy romance author Celia Lake (also find her on Amazon, Facebook, and Twitter)! We get a lot in with this one, including lots of juicy worldbuilding and process talk, the importance of regimens and planning to build a creative life, and dealing with chronic illness and a demanding full time job while still releasing almost two dozen books in four years! Celia Lake is a pen name, but there's a real person behind the books! Celia Lake spends her days as a librarian in the Boston (MA) metro area, and her nights and weekends at home happily writing, reading, and researching. Born and raised in Massachusetts to British parents, she naturally embraced British spelling, classic mysteries, and the Oxford comma before she learned there were any other options. This episode was recorded on June 15th, 2023. The conversation with Celia Lake was recorded on January 28th, 2023. Links and Topics Mentioned in This Episode My day job? I'm a creative services provider helping authors, podcasters and other creators. How can I help you? Celia mentions the Golden Age of Mystery, which included authors like Dorothy L. Sayers and Agatha Christie. The Iliad and The Odyssey... I mentioned the Robert Fagles translations, so that's what's linked here. My Sovereign Era storyworld begins with Brave Men Run -- and you can find the other titles (so far) in that series at that link, too! Of course we talk mosiac universes and shared storyworlds like Thieves' World and Wildcards! Celia talks about Becca Syme and the Better Faster Academy, which uses the Clifton Strengths assessment. Scrivener is an all-in-one application for planning, organizing, writing, and producing fiction and non-fiction works. Remarkably, the Vienna Philharmonic has a record of every concert every performed on their stage. Be sure to listen all the way to the end for an important announcement about the future of Sonitotum with Matthew Wayne Selznick! No, the show's not going anywhere! Maybe you would like to be a future guest on Sonitotum with Matthew Wayne Selznick? Learn more! Big thanks to my Multiversalists patron community, including Amelia Bowen, Ted Leonhardt, Chuck Anderson, and J. C. Hutchins! This episode took over thirteen hours to record, edit, produce, and publish, so I'm incredibly grateful for the support of my patrons. If Sonitotum with Matthew Wayne Selznick brings you joy, become a patron! The Multiversalists patron member community receives the uncut, unedited version of every episode. For this episode, patrons get almost thirty-five minutes of additional content! Want in on that? Become a patron for at least $5.00 per month (start with a free seven-day trial / cancel any time) and get a bunch of other perks and special access, too. Every month the member community has at least twenty members, I will donate 10% of net patron revenue to 826 National in support of literacy and creative writing advocacy for children. Let's go! Love Sonitotum with Matthew Wayne Selznick and have the desire and means to make a one-time donation in support of the show? Donate via PayPal or leave a tip via Ko-Fi, with my grateful thanks.

The great epic of Western literature, translated by the acclaimed classicist Robert FaglesA Penguin Classic   Robert Fagles, winner of the PEN/Ralph Manheim Medal for Translation and a 1996 Academy Award in Literature from the American Academy of Arts and Letters, presents us with Homer's best-loved and most accessible poem in a stunning modern-verse translation. "Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns driven time and again off course, once he had plundered the hallowed heights of Troy." So begins Robert Fagles' magnificent translation of the Odyssey, which Jasper Griffin in the New York Times Book Review hails as "a distinguished achievement." If the Iliad is the world's greatest war epic, the Odyssey is literature's grandest evocation of an everyman's journey through life. Odysseus' reliance on his wit and wiliness for survival in his encounters with divine and natural forces during his ten-year voyage home to Ithaca after the Trojan War is at once a timeless human story and an individual test of moral endurance.  In the myths and legends  retold here, Fagles has captured the energy and poetry of Homer's original in a bold, contemporary idiom, and given us an Odyssey to read aloud, to savor, and to treasure for its sheer lyrical mastery. Renowned classicist Bernard Knox's superb introduction and textual commentary provide insightful background information for the general reader and scholar alike, intensifying the strength of Fagles's translation. This is an Odyssey to delight both the classicist and the general reader, to captivate a new generation of Homer's students. This Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition features French flaps and deckle-edged paper. For more than seventy years, Penguin has been the leading publisher of classic literature in the English-speaking world. With more than 1,700 titles, Penguin Classics represents a global bookshelf of the best works throughout history and across genres and disciplines. Readers trust the series to provide authoritative texts enhanced by introductions and notes by distinguished scholars and contemporary authors, as well as up-to-date translations by award-winning translators.

In the finale episode of Sophocles' Tyrannos... Well, everything we all know is coming, comes out... Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content! CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing. Sources: Oedipus Tyrannos (sometimes called Oedipus Rex or Oedipus the King): short quotes are from the translation by Frank Nisetich, passages quoted from Richard Jebb translation. Other editions/translations referred to: David Mulroy, and Robert Fagles. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Oedipus defends himself against the accusations, but there's much more to the death of Laius than he understands... Plus, gods so many prophecies! Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content! CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing. Sources: Short excerpt from Homer's Odyssey, translated by Samuel Butler; Oedipus Tyrannos (sometimes called Oedipus Rex or Oedipus the King): short quotes are from the translation by Frank Nisetich, passages quoted from Richard Jebb translation. Other editions/translations referred to: David Mulroy, and Robert Fagles. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Turns out a story of a man murdering his father and marrying his mother is actually supremely complex and the characters are incredibly sympathetic, who knew? Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content! CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing. Sources: Short excerpt from Homer's Odyssey, translated by Samuel Butler; Oedipus Tyrannos (sometimes called Oedipus Rex or Oedipus the King): short quotes are from the translation by Frank Nisetich, passages quoted from Richard Jebb translation. Other editions/translations referred to: David Mulroy, and Robert Fagles. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Trans by Robert Fagles. Used w permission.

In this episode, Alissa Rubin reads an excerpt from the ancient Greek epic The Iliad. Rubin is a Senior International Correspondent for The New York Times. She worked previously as the Bureau Chief in Baghdad, Paris, and Kabul. In 2016, she was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in International Reporting for "thoroughly reported and movingly written accounts giving voice to Afghan women who were forced to endure unspeakable cruelties." The passage that Rubin selected is from the very last book of The Iliad, and portrays an encounter between the Trojan King Priam and the Greek warrior Achilles. If you're unfamiliar with the story, all you really need to know — for our purposes — is that Priam's son killed Achilles' best friend in combat, and Achilles then killed Priam's son in retribution. At the point where we meet them, Achilles has been dragging the body of his slain enemy behind his chariot for twelve days, and Priam has come in person to his enemy's encampment to plead for the return of his son's body.  The Iliad by Homer, translated by Robert Fagles, is published by Penguin Random House. Alissa Rubin's reporting – including her recent must-read coverage on climate change in the Middle East – is available to subscribers of The New York Times. We feature one short listener poem at the end of every episode. To submit, call the Haiku Hotline at 612-440-0643 and read your poem after the beep. For the occasional prompt, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Subscribe on RadioPublic, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher.

Continuing with Sophocles' Antigone... There's nothing but tragedy in the city of Thebes. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.Sources: Sophocles' Antigone: quotes from the translation by Diane Rayor; translations by Frank Nisetich from The Greek Plays, new translations edited by Mary Lefkowitz and James Romm, Elizabeth Wyckoff and Robert Fagles may have also been referred to; Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz; Theoi.com. If you're curious about the article about Antigone and feminism mentioned, find it here.Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The O'Leary Review Podcast Andronikos December 4, 2022   A reminder, the Substack page has the most thorough show notes with all the live links. Please join us at https://briandoleary.substack.com/   We're talking about the “Classics” of literature today… it leads to a great discussion and is certainly a “conversation that matters.”   Our guest today, Travis—a.k.a. Andronikos—writes a blog called Wends of Change at https://wendsofchange.substack.com and wrote a book called Revenge and its Discontents: My Journey Through the Iliad which is available on Amazon (the Kindle edition is free with Kindle Unlimited). In his daily life, Travis enjoys reading, writing, bowling, and video games. As Andronikos, he is “on a journey through the great books of the Western Canon.” His goal is to “read and think deeply about them with as little help from outside sources as possible.” The Great Books Reading List that Andronikos is working his way through can be found at https://wendsofchange.com/books/   Book mentioned: How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler   Essay mentioned: “On the Reading of Old Books” by C.S. Lewis From the Lewis essay: “There is a strange idea abroad that in every subject the ancient books should be read only by the professionals, and that the amateur should content himself with the modern books… The error is rather an amiable one, for it springs from humility. The student is half afraid to meet one of the great philosophers face to face. He feels himself inadequate and thinks he will not understand him. But if he only knew, the great man, just because of his greatness, is much more intelligible than his modern commentator.” Commentary from Annie Holmquist at Intellectual Takeout on the Lewis essay.   Andronikos The nom de plume derives from a fellow mentioned in Romans 16:7 “Salute Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners: who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” Romans 16:7 (Douay-Rheims)   Tom Woods 100 For no reason other than I am involved in the Tom Woods School of Life, I decided that I'd get 100 of my fellow members or people closely tied into Tom's orbit on this podcast eventually. Travis/Andronikos is a fellow member. After this week, we will only have about 90 to go! Enrollment in Tom's School of Life comes around every six months or so. Go to https://tomschooloflife.com/ … totally worth it. I'm planning to have a podcast episode dedicated entirely to Tom's School in the near future. #TomWoods100   Travis found out about Tom Woods via Michael Malice, who is a very failed podcaster and writer in his own right. Chain reaction led him to Tom.   Podcasts mentioned: Your Welcome with Michael Malice The Tom Woods Show ep. 2245 with Michael Heise The Brion McClanahan Show — “Think Locally. Act Locally.” The Brian D. O'Leary Show (Spanish Civil War Week) https://briandoleary.substack.com/p/the-brian-d-oleary-show-111422 https://briandoleary.substack.com/p/the-brian-d-oleary-show-111522 https://briandoleary.substack.com/p/the-brian-d-oleary-show-11162022 https://briandoleary.substack.com/p/the-brian-d-oleary-show-111722 https://briandoleary.substack.com/p/the-brian-d-oleary-show-111822   Movie mentioned: Troy   Who was Homer? The Wikipedia entry.   Article mentioned: The Lost Books of the Odyssey by Steve Sailer The Iliad is perhaps the second and the Odyssey could be the seventh in the “eight epics of the Trojan War.” The other six are lost poems according to the Epic Cycle theory.     Best translations for Homer (Iliad & Odyssey) include: Robert Fagles The Paris Review interview, Robert Fagles, The Art of Translation No. 2 Considered by Andronikos as the best modern translation of the Iliad and as the best work in the career of Fagles. Samuel Butler Considered the best public domain translation, though it uses Latin names instead of the Greek. Robert Fitzgerald The Fitzgerald translations are what I started reading in preparation for this conversation. I still have a long way to go! Augustus Murray Public domain translation with the Greek names. Used for the Loeb Classical Library   Andronikos links: Blog/Substack    https://wendsofchange.substack.com Posts drop at 3am Pacific on Sundays Book, Revenge and its Discontents           https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BHC3ZH8G Reading List        https://wendsofchange.com/books/  

In part three of Sophocles' Antigone, Kreon speaks with his son who was set to marry Antigone, and Antigone is finally sentenced to her death. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.Sources: Sophocles' Antigone: quotes from the translation by Diane Rayor; translations by Frank Nisetich from The Greek Plays, new translations edited by Mary Lefkowitz and James Romm, Elizabeth Wyckoff and Robert Fagles may have also been referred to; Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz; Theoi.com.Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Continuing with Sophocles' Antigone... Antigone is caught burying Polyneices, and both she and Ismene are going to be blamed by Kreon. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.Sources: Sophocles' Antigone: quotes from the translation by Diane Rayor; translations by Frank Nisetich from The Greek Plays, new translations edited by Mary Lefkowitz and James Romm, Elizabeth Wyckoff and Robert Fagles may have also been referred to; Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz; Theoi.com.Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's finally time for Sophocles' Antigone: the daughters of Oedipus and Jocasta deals with the aftermath of her family's horrifying legacy. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.Sources: Sophocles' Antigone: quotes from the translation by Diane Rayor; translations by Frank Nisetich from The Greek Plays, new translations edited by Mary Lefkowitz and James Romm, Elizabeth Wyckoff and Robert Fagles may have also been referred to; Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz; Theoi.com.Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this week's edition, Rev. Josh and Sketchy Ritchie are back with an episode on the forgotten gods and demigods of the Greco-Roman world! In this episode, they start off by talking about the Greeks and their mythology about the Titans and the Olympians. After that, they begin to draw connections between the Greek Pantheon and the Roman Pantheon. They also have a conversation on household spirits in Rome, and then they get into a conversation about the Roman festival year. They close the conversation talking about the conversion of the Empire and Constantine the Great, setting them up for a conversation about Christmas in a few weeks! Let us know what you think about this week's edition! Sources Used: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heros by Edith Hamilton: Amazon.com: Mythology (75th Anniversary Illustrated Edition): Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes: 9780316438520: Hamilton, Edith, Tierney, Jim: Books Theogony by Hesiod: Amazon.com: Hesiod and Theognis (Penguin Classics): Theogony, Works and Days, and Elegies: 9780140442830: Hesiod, Theognis, Wender, Dorothea, Wender, Dorothea: Books The Iliad by Homer: Amazon.com: The Iliad: 9780140275360: Homer, Robert Fagles, Bernard Knox: Books The Odyssey by Homer: The Odyssey: Homer, Robert Fagles, Bernard Knox (amazon.com) The Aeneid by Virgil: Amazon.com: The Aeneid (Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition): 9780143105138: Virgil, Fagles, Robert, Knox, Bernard: Books Defending Constantine by Peter Leithart: Defending Constantine: The Twilight of an Empire and the Dawn of Christendom: Leithart, Peter J.: 9780830827220: Amazon.com: Books Roman Pagan Life and Worship by Dr. Ryan Reeves (Video): (348) Roman Pagan Life and Worship - YouTube The Ancient Roman World by Dr. Ryan Reeves (Video): (348) The Ancient Roman World - YouTube Roman Household Spirits by Study of Antiquity and Middle Ages (Video): (348) Roman Household Spirits ~ (Roman Myths) (Roman Household Gods) (Ancient Roman Religion) - YouTube

In this episode:We explore the symbolism of “one's true name” and the challenges that we meet in learning how to hear it.Let's make this a conversation:Do you have a comment or  question about this episode, or about something you would like me to address in a future episode? Please contact me on Instagram (@digital.jung), Facebook (facebook.com/jungiananalyst), or Twitter (@Jason_E_Smith).For more on living a symbolic life:Please check out my book, Religious but Not Religious: Living a Symbolic Life, available from Chiron Publications.Sources for quotes and more:Symbols of Transformation in 'Collected Works, vol. 5' by C.G. JungThe New Name in 'Unspoken Sermons, vol. 1' by George MacDonald Psychological Types in 'Collected Works, vol. 6' by C.G. Jung'The Way of the Dream'  by Marie-Louise von Franz The Development of the Personality in 'Collected Works, vol. 17' by C.G. JungThe Journey, poem by Mary Oliver 'Crossing the Unknown Sea' by David Whyte 'Letters to a Young Poet' by Rainer Maria Rilke The Symbolic Life in 'Collected Works, vol. 18' by C.G. Jung Homer's The Odyssey, translated by Robert Fagles 'The Hero With A Thousand Faces' by Joseph Campbell Names, poem by Rumi in 'The Soul is Here For Its Own Joy' edited by Robert BlyLike this podcast?Please consider leaving a review at one of the following sites:Apple PodcastsSpotifyPodchaserOr, if you are able, support the show with a donation at Buy Me a Coffee (link below)Music:"Dreaming Days," "Slow Vibing," and "The Return" by Ketsa are licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0Support the show

The bets we place on the roulette wheel result in different patterns and outcomes. This occurs for individuals. The same happens for nations. The answer you choose to the question of one God, no god, or many gods, dramatically alters your destiny. Depending on your choice, the heroes become different. The goals change. The heroes of ancient Greece, Odysseus and Achilles, are unlike the heroes of Israel, Moses and David. The foundation story of Rome, through the founder Romulus, is very unlike the founder of Christianity, a carpenter named Jesus. The story that gives structure to your life or nation guides choices toward different ends. Our selected worldview leads to various pathways because the decision tree steers us in different directions that we cannot revert from or modify easily, like a train switching tracks as it leaves the station. Once on the wrong track and moving, it's not always easy to undo. The belief in one God leads to very a different path for Israel than that of Babylon or Egypt. The Hebrews openly reject all other gods like Baal and Zeus and Marduk or Ra. They declare them all to be false gods. Likewise, they don't believe that human emperors like Ramses or Caesar Augustus are actual deities. They don't believe in a pantheon of many gods. Their entire worldview centers around one creator God, and not on any sub-deities. In other words, they have not abandoned the first God. All of the surrounding cultures tell stories about how the first, primordial god or gods, was killed or rendered impotent. That is the main point of contention. None of this is hidden from us. The mythologies of ancient cultures tell these stories of how the first God or gods died. Hesiod's Works and Days tells how Ouranos was replaced. Egyptian tales explain how Osiris was overthrown. They have abandoned the idea of one God. This is exactly why Israel is alone, different, set apart, and yes, chosen. In fact, they are the only ones that have chosen to return to the idea of the one true God.Anyone that likes mythology already knows these stories. I'm not stumbling onto something secret or esoteric. In the myths, chaos is almost always the starting point, which is a condition that any parent, artist, office manager, or software architect is well aware of. We can all relate to the idea of a shapeless mess. There is this watery nothing, an emptiness, which is sometimes called a chasm, or a void, or disorder. You may think of it as something like the upside-down in the mind of Eleven in Stranger Things. Then out of the chaos comes a creation story, the family tree, and then follows the saga of the gods, with entire genealogies and top-notch treachery. There is rebellion among the children of the initial gods that explain the past and present state, right up to the current state of the world. When Israel is writing its story of salvation history, so are the Greeks and others, since writing has suddenly become possible. But what's curious is that as they are writing this, the only people who don't have a hierarchy or genealogy of gods and goddesses is the Hebrew people. Every other group has plowed the initial God into the past, while the Bible declares him to be alive. They alone have held a candle for the one true God in the mind of humanity when all others have declared him snuffed out. This is what makes the Hebrews so different. They are not like any other people. They do not and will not bow to these other gods. They won't play nice just to get along. They reject the myths as mere stories. If there is only one God, all of these myths and stories are just that: stories without any real power. Why would this matter? Who cares? Why can't they just get along and pour out a little liquor for these other gods? Because they can't. To play along will blow out the candle. It makes an enormous difference in meaning about who and what God is, what the idea of God means, and how we are to interact or worship that God. Having only one God makes every other god into an idol, a false god, and reading the Bible you can see how that irritates and enrages the surrounding cultures. Why? Because the Hebrews won't bow or bend to any of these myths. Rest assured that no one, today or in the ancient world, enjoys mockery or belittlement of that which gives them purpose. I don't care what era you live in, or who you are, or how your sense of meaning comes about, but if someone or some group tries to tell you that the center of your life, the meaning of your life, is false, then anger will result. There is hardly a person alive today who can stand strong when their purpose or sense of meaning is mocked or called out as a joke. Hence, the chosen people, in choosing to follow the first God, the one God, are hated throughout history because they will not bend to the world around them and call these sub-gods equal to their God, because they can't. The lesser gods are not worthy of worship.This leads to a whole can of worms being opened, because if you read the Old Testament with this understanding, it shines a light on many stories. The hostile world that Abraham lives in begins to make sense when you see the conflict, when you see how deep and fundamental this division is between them and the surrounding cultures. Why are the others so angry? Why are these events so weird and violent? The Hebrews are living in a time when their tradition is the only odd one, the only one that cannot and will not adapt. To the rest of the world, they have chosen to go backwards. For polytheistic cultures, to offer prayer or sacrifice to another city's god, or to another group's deity, is not a problem, because their concept of "god" is small. If Athens can have a patron god and Corinth can have a different one, then the power of a god is limited. Visitors can go to either place and worship or sacrifice without betraying the home team. They can make offerings and pray for sweet deals. This is what is meant by, “When in Rome, do as the Romans.” It's easy to fit in with the local people if you don't mock or belittle the hometown god or team. I'm sure there were cities like Philadelphia back then, where even if you didn't mock the hometown Eagles, the drunk locals might still have beaten you up. However, in a world of many gods, it's not the end of the world to change your allegiance. Like any timid Minnesota Vikings fan, you could get through an ancient Philadelphia by faking your fandom and maybe wear an Eagles jersey, just for the day, without feeling like you had betrayed the Vikings franchise. The Vikings after all, will break your heart come December, so to deny them in public in trade for saving yourself a black eye is ok. Denying the Minnesota Vikings is not the same as denying the foundation that gives meaning to life. So for Israel, this cannot be done. They cannot put on a Philadelphia Eagles jersey for the day. There can be no worship of any of these small gods, because it immediately disrespects and de-thrones the one God from the highest place. The stakes are much higher than Monday Night Football. The polytheists have already de-throned the one God, and they have no qualms inserting and dropping gods like rows in a database. Israel cannot do that, and thus the problem exists. As long as they maintain that there is only one God, they cannot worship any other god, because to do so destroys their entire worldview. In other words, how they derive meaning from existence is directly opposed to the surrounding world, which puts them always at odds with their neighbors. They have no choice but to call the Philadelphia Eagle what it is: an idol. This makes the choice to worship the one God a demanding and difficult way of life. It's not like being a Minnesota Vikings fan is challenging. I can buy a jersey and turn on the TV. By that ritual act alone I'm a member of the club. One thing I will say for Eagles fans is that they actually seem willing to die for the team, and not only through self-inflicted alcohol poisoning but by actual human sacrifice. Or maybe I'm still bitter over the 2018 beat-down the Vikings received from the Eagles in the NFC championship game. I was riding the high of the Minneapolis Miracle that happened the week before when that debacle happened. But I'm fair-weather fan anyway, and I personally think the sports obsession in America is a symptom that is preceding a major illness. The Hebrews, however, make Eagles fans look like fair-weather fans. You can see this in many stories, where the Israelites will not bend a knee to the false gods. In Daniel, one of my favorites of the entire Bible is when King Nebuchadnezzar has built a giant gold statue and wants everyone to pay homage and worship it. He calls in all the nations and cultures for the day of dedication. Everyone falls in line. Everyone, of course, except for the Jewish representatives. Why? Why can't these three guys just toe the line? Why must they rock the boat of Nebuchadnezzar? They don't worship his gold statue, because they can't. Or they could do it, but they won't. If they do, they have rejected the one true God. If they do, then they have abandoned their faith. If they do, their lives lose all meaning, because they know that the one true God is the truth, thus there is nothing more precious and worthy than keeping faithful to the one true God. Not to mention, there is a good precedence in Exodus for why "golden" statues should not be worshiped, since the Golden Calf incident ended with a lot of corpses, and those involved had to literally drink the melted and powderized metal calf as punishment. So King Nebuchadnezzar is told, "they will not serve your god or worship the golden statue which you set up." The King is livid and orders the three men to be burned in a furnace, demanding that the furnace be stoked to the highest level of heat possible. He gives the three dissidents a chance to change their mind, but they refuse. They respond with one of the ultimate comebacks in execution history, as they tell the King (using my translation here), "Our God may save us. But just so you know, even if he doesn't, we don't really care. But we will never worship your stupid statue."This is a badass tale, like most stories where people stand up for the truth. This is the stuff of legend. They are saying, "Go ahead and kill us. Your god is a fake. Yes, we may burn, but we won't die as apostates."Then Nebuchadnezzar grows even more angry and has them thrown into the furnace. But they do not burn. Something is shielding them from the fire. The book reads (not my translation here), "They walked about in the flames, singing to God and blessing the Lord." They are singing in a furnace like it was a warm shower. Something or someone has interceded so that "the fire in no way touched them or caused them pain or harm." They sing a long song worshiping God, the one God. Then the best part of this story arrives. Nebuchadnezzar looks into the furnace, and sees these three men walking around in the fire, but there is another person. There is a fourth body. Something strange is happening. A fourth person or being is inside the furnace. The King says, “I see four men unbound and unhurt, walking in the fire, and the fourth looks like a son of God.” We don't find out who the fourth person or angel or being was (but there is lots of speculation if you want to research it). The three men emerge unburnt and not even smelling of fire. This leads to a kind of conversion for Nebuchadnezzar, as he is shocked and amazed. He gives orders that everyone must now praise the "Most High God", the one God, going so far to add that anyone who disrespects the one God of these three Jews "...shall be cut to pieces and his house made into a refuse heap. For there is no other God who can rescue like this." This example in Daniel shows what the chosen people are facing and how their declaration of faith enrages the world around them. The chosen people are set apart because they are attempting to re-enthrone the one true God. The lesser gods are all false, so they can never defeat the real God in battle. The demons and lesser gods have only taken power over the minds of men, but they have no true power. This is why lesser gods and demons are said to attack humans; it is the only way they can gain power. They cannot defeat God, but they can corrupt what he loves, which is his creation. To say that a god is powerless will also enrage those who elevate lower, invented gods. This is like going into a diehard Green Bay Packers fan's basement where he has collected years of posters, ticket stubs, team souvenirs, and signed jerseys and then telling him, "The Packers suck!" It's going to sting. It's not how to win friends and influence people. Sticking with the one God, and telling people that whatever they elevate to give them meaning in life is a false god, is inviting conflict, hatred, and wrath.This story in Daniel kind of sums up the problem with why the Jews face so many difficulties. They have chosen a path of difficulty, a tradition that has been left behind by other cultures. If you consider the story in Daniel in comparison to the story of Odysseus, the Greek hero, their way of interacting with the world could not be more different. Odysseus is a great character because he slips through tricky situations. He adapts and maneuvers to make his way home to Ithaca. Odysseus is like a chameleon who can say whatever is needed to survive, which is why we love him and haven't stopped talking about him for several thousand years. He's crafty, clever, slippery. He's cool. He's even kind of like the snake in the garden a bit. When faced with a difficult situation, he shifts. The open line of the Odyssey has various translations, but the Robert Fagles one I like the best: "“Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turnsdriven time and again off course..."He is a man that can change, quickly, to ride out the days of this crazy world. Like various successful salespeople I have interacted with, Odysseus sees a setback as an opportunity and the truth is always fuzzy and grey. I get the sense that Pontius Pilate had some attributes of Odysseus, because when beset with the trouble of Jesus' trial, he maneuvers to save himself, his image, his power. Better yet, when Pilate hears Jesus talking about the idea of "truth" he gives a telling answer, an answer that betrays his worldview.So Pilate said to him, “Then you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say I am a king. For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice."Pilate said to him, “What is truth?"This to me is the root issue that the chosen people are constantly fighting, and it is that of sticking to the one God, because once you depart from the truth of one God, then you can begin to dabble around in declaring anything to be true. Odysseus isn't terribly concerned with what is true, unless it helps him get what he wants. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.whydidpetersink.com

Subscribe to Quotomania on Simplecast or search for Quotomania on your favorite podcast app!Homer, (flourished 9th or 8th century BCE, Ionia?), was an ancient Greek poet and presumed author of the Iliad and the Odyssey. Though almost nothing is known of his life, tradition holds that Homer was blind. The ancient Greeks attributed to him the great epic poems the Iliad and the Odyssey. Modern scholars generally agree that he composed (but was not the original creator of) the Iliad, most likely relying on oral traditions, and at least inspired the composition of the Odyssey.The Iliad, set during the Trojan War, tells the story of the wrath of Achilles. The Odyssey tells the story of Odysseus as he travels home from the war. The two epics provided the basis of Greek education and culture in the Classical age, and they have remained among the most significant poems of the European tradition. The method of their composition has been long debated.From https://www.britannica.com/summary/Homer-Greek-poet. For more information about Homer:Previously on The Quarantine Tapes:Daniel Mendelsohn about Homer, at 14:10: https://quarantine-tapes.simplecast.com/episodes/the-quarantine-tapes-096-daniel-mendelsohnThe Iliad, translated by Robert Fagles: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/537250/the-iliad-by-homer-translated-by-robert-fagles-introduction-and-notes-by-bernard-knox/“Englishing the Iliad: Grading Four Rival Translations”: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/englishing-the-iliad-grading-four-rival-translations“Robert Fagles, the Art of Translation No. 2”: https://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/930/the-art-of-translation-no-2-robert-fagles

Welcome to another episode of the Bowie Book Club, where wild speculation and grasping for straws about Bowie's favorite books has reigned supreme since 2016. This time we read Homer Tarantino's gory classic of bromanticism - The Iliad Subscribe! iTunes | RSS | Stitcher Follow us! (Not in a creepy way) Twitter Facebook Instagram Web Presence Our Bookshop Visit our lists on bookshop.org and help support the podcast (and independent bookstores too!) Stuff We Talked About We read different translations of this here gruesome volume - Kristianne had the Robert Fagles and Greg read the Carolyn Alexander Want to understand the Iliad? This is the only infographic you need The Silence of the Girls by Pat Barker The War that Killed Achilles by Carolyn Alexander Homer's Daughter by Robert Graves A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes The Odyssey translated by Emily Wilson Our ridiculous episode about The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes Shakespeare's Second Best Bet The Myths and Legends Podcast Christa Wolf's book on Cassandra that we should've read! What Are We Reading? (That Isn't Related to the Iliad) Greg: Devil House by John Darnielle (also Wolf in White Van and Universal Harvester) What Song Did We Choose? What's Up Next Awopbopaloobop Alopbamboom: The Golden Age of Rock - Nik Cohn

Research begins at 26:48 Bunk Funkers, time for a Bible study! Did you know the holy book can help predict the future? Turns out some eggheads may have cracked the code to predicting the apocalypse using the Bible and its hidden messages - and we're gonna not only give you the whole enchilada on the Bible code but TEACH you how to look these codes up yourself! Thanks to Robbie Malec for the topic! In the first segment, Andy and Art are captured once again by the titular Mr. Bunker - how did he fool them this time? In the second segment, Andy and Art give you, the listeners, an uninterrupted presentation of their research into The Bible Code. Finally, Andy and Art discuss Robert Fagles is a cool guy, Jesus drinking milkshakes, translations, and so much more! Send us your thoughts to @MrBunkerPod and mrbunkerpod@gmail.com using the hashtag #RobertFaglesIsAReallyCoolGuy Music by Michael Martello Artwork by Hannah Ross Audio Editing by Arthur Stone Follow Us: Patreon Twitter Instagram Website Youtube Merch Links Mentioned: The Bible Code: A Book Review Bible code - Wikipedia  1 The Bible Can Accurately Predict the Future  The Bible's Ability to Predict the Future by Don Stewart  Bible prophecy - Wikipedia  Decoding The Past - The Bible Code: Predicting Armageddon - History Channel Documentary Decoding the Past: The Bible Code II - Apocalypse and Beyond - video Dailymotion  Hidden Messages and the Bible Code | Skeptical Inquirer  The Bible Code: Enigmas for Dummies  Torah Codes  THE BIBLE CODE  Fun With the Bible Code Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Arma virumque cano - thus begins the greatest work of Latin literature, Vergil's Aeneid. The story follows a survivor of Troy, Aeneas, as he escapes the city at its fall and travels the Mediterranean to fulfill his destiny: to lay the foundations of what would become Rome. The epic poem plays on Homeric plots and themes, but also comes across as distinctly Roman. This week, Ardaschir and Timothy demonstrate their piety to the podcast (Aeneas would approve) as they discuss some of their questions and insights on the text. (Note: Here is a copy of the text translated by John Dryden, and here is a more contemporary translation by Robert Fagles.) Intro/Outro music by Cooper Cannell

The Iliad by Homer. Book 12, Lines 225-276. Robert Fagles translation. Read by Colton Kirby.

Shakespeare's Roman trilogy reaches a climax in The Tragedy of Antony and Cleopatra, a love- and wine-drenched account of Octavius Caesar's defeat of Mark Antony and Cleopatra, and his consolidation of power over the nascent Roman Empire. The play is punctuated by bountiful allusions to Virgil's Aeneid. But besides the haunting downfall of the play's title characters, in the background of the action arises the specter of a new religious creed, Christianity. Katherine Bradshaw joins Jonathan and Ryan again, to take the measure of Shakespeare's Roman trilogy.Jan Blits's edition of The Tragedy of Antony and Cleopatra: https://amzn.to/3DolBcKVirgil's Aeneid, trans. Robert Fagles: https://bookshop.org/a/25626/9780143105138Virgil's Aeneid, Latin-English: https://amzn.to/3BAWOS7Niccolo Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy (free): https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/detmold-the-historical-political-and-diplomatic-writings-vol-2#lf0076-02_label_026Niccolo Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy, trans. Harvey Mansfield https://amzn.to/3DBfVMkDante's Divine Comedy: https://bookshop.org/a/25626/9780142437544René Girard's I See Satan Fall Like Lightning: https://bookshop.org/a/25626/9781570753190New Humanists is brought to you by the Ancient Language Institute: https://ancientlanguage.com/Links may have referral codes, which earn us a commission at no additional cost to you. We encourage you, when possible, to use Bookshop.org for your book purchases, an online bookstore which supports local bookstores.Music: Save Us Now by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Homer's Iliad is one of the oldest works of literature from the Western world. It has been a staple in education among the Greeks and Romans, in the Medieval ages, the Renaissance, and Enlightenment, and in modern liberal education. What has made this story so captivating for so long? Moreover, what can we learn from it across the ages and cultures? (Note: a free PDF translated by Alexander Pope can be found here from Project Gutenberg. The hosts read the first book from Robert Fagles' translation.) Intro/Outro music by Cooper Cannell

Imagine a future where smart machines are more intelligent than humans. That future may be coming much faster than we think. The stark implications are considered in this podcast. The former Chief Business Officer at Google X, Egyptian entrepreneur Mo Gawdat has long been at the heart of the artificial intelligence revolution, deeply involved in engineering, robotics, and AI. Mo is also a podcaster with a focus on how we can promote happiness. In his latest book, "Scary Smart", he argues that AI reflects our values and that unless humans change their online behavior, the consequences could be terrifying. "The true pandemic of our times is not COVID-19, Mo tells us. "AI is the real pandemic. It's at its infancy and will grow in intelligence until a point where it is undisputed that they will be the leaders."In less than ten years, he predicts, we will experience "the singularity", when artificial intelligence will be many times smarter than humans. But not all is doom and gloom. "The very essence of what makes us human — happiness, compassion, and love — is what will save humanity in the age of the machines," he writes. We discuss the practical, ethical, and spiritual implications of what's coming our way.Recommendation: Richard has just read Robert Fagles' translation of "The Iliad", by Homer — an epic Greek poem and often called the first great work of western literature. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

What is piety? What happened to it? And can we make it great again? This week Onsi, Colin, and Rhys talk about piety (not to confused with "pietism" or "piousness") - our natural bonds and relationship to those around us. They cover its place in the ancient world, what the Reformation had to say, and what (if anything) it might look like today.NOTE: most books below are linked via Bookshop.org. Any purchases you make via these links give The Davenant Institute a 10% commission, and support local bookshops against chainstores/Amazon.Currently ReadingOnsi: The Iliad by Homer (trans. Robert Fagles)  Colin: Children of Men by P.D. James Rhys: The Odyssey (Audiobook) by Homer (trans. Robert Fagles; read by Ian McKellan)Texts DiscussedEuthyphro by PlatoThe Aeneid by VirgilA Thousand Ships by Natalie HaynesInstitutes III.ii by John CalvinThe Hidden Structure of the Ten Commandments by Rabbi David FohrmanMan of the House by C.R. WileyThe Household and the War for the Cosmos by C.R. WileyMinari Davenant SpotlightSupport the work of The Davenant InstituteTheme Music"Midnight Stroll" by Ghostrifter. Free to use under Creative Commons. Available here.

On this episode of Troubadour Talks I had as a guest Timothy Sandefur, VP of Litigation at Goldwater Institute. We discussed the play Oedipus the King by Sophocles. The Oedipus is likely one of the most referenced and analyzed work of imaginative literature in the history of the world. Now, Tim and Kirk have added their voices to this endeavor!Both Kirk and Tim recommend the Robert Fagles translation of Oedipus The King. On the show, Tim refers to a performance of Greek Plays done in Greek. The director is Leonidas Loizides. You can learn more about this director in this article. Read Tim Sandefur on his personal blog at sandefur.typepad.com Also, Tim has a review of a new translation of Oedipus, coming out at The Objective Standard, Topics discussed:Why lawyers today should read literature generally and ancient Greek literature in particular.How the Ancient Greeks viewed literature's role as crucial in life.An overview of The Oedipus story.How Oedipus The King is like Batman.The universality of this story.A Character analysis of Oedipus & JocastaThe problem with "Tragic Flaws."Meaning from literature and mortalitythe psychological insight we can learn from the ancients.Do we have free-will or are we determined beings?Analysis of the style of Oedipus' crossroads speechOn reading translationsThe #DisruptTexts​ movementand much more!

On this episode of Troubadour Talks I had as a guest Timothy Sandefur, VP of Litigation at Goldwater Institute. We discussed the play Oedipus the King by Sophocles. The Oedipus is likely one of the most referenced  and analyzed work of imaginative literature in the history of the world. Now, Tim and Kirk have added their voices to this endeavor!Both Kirk and Tim recommend the Robert Fagles translation of Oedipus The King. On the show, Tim refers to a performance of Greek Plays done in Greek. The director is Leonidas Loizides. You can learn more about this director in this article. Read Tim Sandefur on his personal blog at sandefur.typepad.com Also, Tim has a review of a new translation of Oedipus, coming out at The Objective Standard, Topics discussed:Why lawyers today should read literature generally and ancient Greek literature in particular.How the Ancient Greeks viewed literature's role as crucial in life.An overview of The Oedipus story.How Oedipus The King is like Batman.The universality of this story.A Character analysis of Oedipus & JocastaThe problem with "Tragic Flaws."Meaning from literature and mortalitythe psychological insight we can learn from the ancients.Do we have free-will or are we determined beings?Analysis of the style of Oedipus' crossroads speechOn reading translationsThe #DisruptTexts​ movementand much more!

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

Translated by Robert Fagles.

In the first episode I am telling the story of Circe, the greek goddess of magic. In describing her stories I am mentioning known ancient sources as well as the use of her character in modern literature and art..Sources: - HOMER. The Odyssey. Translations by Robert Fagles. 30.10.2020.https://www.boyle.kyschools.us/UserFiles/88/The%20Odyssey.pdf- CANEVARO, Lilah Grace. 2015. Witches and Wicked Objects, in New Voices in Classical Reception Studies- TURKILSEN, Debbie. An Examination of Ancient Greek and Roman Witches throughout Literature. 30.10.2020. https://www.academia.edu/3672405/An_Examination_of_Ancient_Greek_and_Roman_Witches_throughout_Literature.- OVID. Metamorphoses. (A. S. Kline's Version) - 30.10.2020. https://ovid.lib.virginia.edu/trans/Metamorph14.htm- DEGIRMENCI, Erol. 2020. William Waterhouse's Love for Circe, Daily Art Magazine. 30.10.2020. https://www.dailyartmagazine.com/waterhouse-circe/- MILLER, Madeline. 2018. Circe- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circe- HIRST, K. Kris. 2018. Ancient Troy's Possible Location in Hisarlik. 30.10.2020. https://www.thoughtco.com/hisarlik-turkey-scientific-excavations-171263

Hey everyone! This week is a little bit different. I am starting this series called the Odyssey series. Things in my life are changing a little so, this series will help me out a little while I navigate that. I explain more in the episode. I hope you enjoy!  Book: The Odyssey by Homer translation by Robert Fagles.Music:Strength Of The Titans by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5744-strength-of-the-titansLicense: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Follow me on Facebook and Instagram. Email me comments and suggestion at mythologiepodcast@gmail.com

I think we live in a time of horrible leadership. Just across the board. Everybody in power seems to be frighteningly old and since the last 40 or so years have been so easy, none of the people in charge of anything have dealt with a real crisis. Or had to build anything. They tear down, they criticize, they pass the buck and grift their way through, with seemingly no awareness that the stakes might be real and far more important than any one person's advantage. Many of the characters in How to Succeed in Evil are predicated on this kind of idea. People have great potential and power, but they are stupid about using it. Even stupid about doing the wrong things with it. As I returned to How to Succeed in Evil, I consciously tried to turn away from current events. These stories are meant to be an escape and enjoyment, rather than any ill-advised attempt to reform anything about the world. Because entertainment is a noble thing in its own right. Everybody needs a break. But here we are. Perhaps it's an unavoidable theme in this moment. I can't even read ancient books without running into it.BUT FIRST, A THEORY OF CONSCIOUSNESS?The craziest book I've read in the last year is The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. And he argues that before some point, the executive functions of our brain were opaque to us -- and appeared to us as voices or gods commanding us to act.And this was because (loosely speaking) the left side of the brain tends to deal with routine situations and the right side of the brain deals with more novel situations. And if there's a wall between them -- if they are in separate chambers as the term bicameral literally means, then when faced with something novel, the only way the right side of the brain could get through to us in waking hours, was a hallucination. And Jaynes makes the argument that this is how it worked and very much the way schizophrenics and people with specific kinds of brain damage experience the world today. None of these claims are nuts to me. At one point we, as a species didn't have consciousness -- we weren't aware we were going to die and of the problems that created for us on multiple levels and on multiple time frames -- and at some point, we woke up. But here's where it becomes audacious. Jaynes claims that you can see this split in ancient literature. Running like a fault line into works that are before consciousness and works that are after. Before this split, there was no interior sense of self, consciousness, or agency in the way we'd think of it. No lying or deception. The Epic of Gilgamesh is totally like this. And after this split, people are conflicted. They become liars and aware that other people can be liars. And the nice thing about this theory is that it explains, in the Iliad, why the Gods are the primary motive forces. The book -- more properly, a poem -- doesn't have men and women reflecting on events and deciding what to do, but gods and goddesses visiting them and making decisions for them. I'll provide some examples in a moment. This leads to all kinds of crazy lines of thought. Because without intent, is ever killing in the Iliad a kind of 2nd-degree murder. There can't be premeditation because there's no meditation. You know, if you don't look at the Trojan war as war in the story, which it absolutely is. But here's the crazy part -- Jaynes argues that this fault line of consciousness runs right between the Iliad and the Odyssey. This is a crazy idea and I love it. And he seems to make a pretty good case for it. But to really evaluate it I think you have to be an expert in Ancient Greek, neuroscience, psychology, and consciousness. And people like that are very scarce on the ground. Especially because we know effectively nothing about consciousness. But as a writer, I don't care if it's true. I care if it's USEFUL. If it's productive of more ideas. If I can use this theory as a lens to increase my understanding. And oh boy, does it ever. As I came back to How to Succeed in Evil, I was more conscious than ever that characters can be representations of different aspects of the psyche. This started off pretty obviously in How to Succeed in Evil. Sloppily speaking, Topper is the Id. Agnes is the Ego. Edwin is the Superego. At least in the original book. Part of my challenge for writing more was to add depth and challenge to these characters. So I decided to re-read the Iliad through the lens of each character being an aspect of personality. And also to see how well Jaynes' theory fits the story from my, admittedly, uninformed perspective. When I did, something amazing happened. And it illustrates the rewards of giving time and attention to great literature. Let me show you:In my memory, the Iliad is the story of Achilles' anger. I mean, it's certainly a war story. But that's the external plot. But what makes a story powerful is the internal story. A contemporary and simple example of this is Jaws. The external story is that the sheriff must defeat the shark to keep the town safe. The internal story is that the sheriff must defeat his fear of the water. And that's what makes him heroic in our eyes. And the reason it's easy to think of the Iliad as the story of Achilles' rage is that's the way it starts. The first chapter is entitled "The Rage of Achilles" and the first line -- the traditional invocation of the muse is > Rage goddess, sing the rage of Peleus' son Achilles, murderous, doomed, that cost the Achaeans countless losses, hurling down to the house of death so many sturdy souls.Okay, so, cautionary tale about the destructive perils of rage. That's a theme that's never going to go out of style. But, why is he so angry? He's angry because Agamemnon, the leader of the Greeks, is a worthless leader. > Many a brave soul did it (Achilles' anger) send hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs and vultures, for so were the counsels of Jove fulfilled from the day on which the son of Atreus, king of men, and great Achilles, first fell out with one another. Even in the explanation, Jove -- Zeus -- Jupiter -- is the force driving the whole thing. Son of Atreus king of Men is Agamemnon. So, at the beginning of the story, which starts in the middle of the war, a plague has descended upon the camp. People are dropping like flies. Homer represents this as the god Apollo striking them down with his arrows. > He cut them down in droves and the corpse-fires burned on, night and day, no end in sight. This goes on for nine days. And finally, Achilles can't take it anymore. He calls together the men and says, we're going to lose the war if this keeps up. But before we give up, we should ask a priest. So they do. And, reluctantly, because the priest is well aware of what a jackass Agamemnon is, he tells them that Apollo is unhappy because Agamemnon won't give up a girl he's taken as a slave. But if he gives the girl back to her father, the plague will stop. So, what does Agamemnon do? What would you do? I mean besides not trying to sack Troy or taking a girl as a slave in the first place. As a good leader, what would you do? I'd said, "Great. Here's the girl. Spare my men." This concern for the troops is what motivates Achilles to go to the priest. Right? It's the most important thing. Everybody can see that. Except for Agamemnon who goes off on the priest.Seer of misery! Never a word that works to my advantage! Always misery warms your heart, your prophecies -- never a word of profit said or brought to pass.Now, again you divine god's will for the armies,bruit it about, as fact, why the deadly Archermultiplies our pains: because I, I refusedthat glittering price for the young girl ChryseisIndeed I prefer her by far, the girl herself,I want her mine in my own house! I rank her higher than Clytemnestra, my wedded wife -- she's nothing lessin build or breeding, in mind or works of hand.Now don't get distracted by the fact that the name Clytemnestra sounds like a cross between a venereal disease and a banned food additive. Stay with Agamemnon. Notice how he is bitter, petty, and all about him. And he takes eleven lines before he gets to the most important thing. But I am willing to give her back, even so, if that is best for all. What I really wantis to keep my people safe, not see them dying.The Iliad is manifestly the wrong book for not seeing people dying. And clearly, _he_ could have asked the priest what was up. But he didn't. But here's the telling point. But fetch me another prize, and straight off too, else I alone of the Argives go without my honor. That would be disgrace. You are all witness, look -- my prize is snatched away. Which isn't even correct in the story. Because the girl's father came to buy his daughter back from Agamemnon. The dude is just being arrogant and prideful. And there's a word for that in Ancient Greek. Hubris. So anyway, because Achilles stands up to him, Agamemnon takes Achilles' slave girl. At that moment Achilles goes for his sword, but Athena appears to him -- a hallucination of the executive function of the brain stepping in as per our theory -- and convinces him not to fight Agamemnon. But he's so upset about the loss of his slave girl that he decides to go on strike and sit out the war. And he takes the best troops with him. Because of bad leadership, the most competent warrior refuses to fight. In essence, he resigns. Does any of this seem at all familiar or at least analogous? Now, you could say that Agamemnon is just having a bad day. Or a bad moment. Or maybe he just doesn't get along with Achilles, who we can also see as a kind of prima-donna. In book 11 -- Agamemnon's Day of Glory -- he rides out and cuts people down like grass, until, he gets a cut on his forearm and he leaves the field. Not as heroic as he could be. Now Agamemnon is not elected in any sense of the word, but the text seems pretty clear to me that he has his power because he has the relationships with all the coalition members. How good these relationships are? So when Agamemnon goes home to get a band-aid, the Trojans rally and it looks like the Greeks are going to be routed -- driven back into the sea. But Odysseus and Diomedes rally the men and keep it from being a complete loss. But this read far from glory for Agamemnon. From that point in the book, the Greeks take a pretty straight beating from then in. And it gets so bad, that at one point, Agamemnon, says, "Maybe we should take a couple of ships and row out to sea, wait until dark and come back and collect everybody who has survived and then go home." Which is a horrible idea. And Odysseus, the most cunning of them, all unleashes this speech. With a dark glance, the shrewd tactician OdysseusWheeled on his commander. "What's this, Atrides,this talk that slips from your clenched teeth?You are the disaster. Would to god you commanded another army.What if one of the men gets wind of your brave plan? No one should ever let such nonsense pass his lipsno one with any skill in fit and proper speech-- and least of all yourself, a sceptered king. Full battalions hang on your words AgamemnonAchean troops will never hold the line, I tell you. not while the long ships are being hauled to sea. They'll look left and right -- for where can they run? and they'll fling their lust for battle to the winds. Then, Commander of armies, your plan will kill us all."At that the King of men Agamemnon backed down. Yeah, he did. The war goes on and it gets worse fro Greeks. All the Greek heroes are knocked out of commission either dead or wounded, and it looks like the end. But Achilles is so pissed he still won't help So Patroclus, Achilles' best friend goes to him and begs -- not for Achilles to re-enter the fray, but for Achilles lend him his armor and lead his troops the Myrmidons (who are fresh because they've been resting this whole time) out into battle. One sharp shock will turn the tide and everybody fears Achilles. But Patroclus, though brave, is no great warrior. Hector rides out and kills him. Achilles goes out and weeps over his friend's dead body. And then at dawn Achilles mother - a goddess -- brings him a new, even more, magnificent suit of armor hot off Vulcan's forge. Agamemnon finally gives him his girl back. Achilles hops on his chariot ready to ready to go to war. And there's this little moment. He pats his horse and praises them, reminds them of the lineage they come from, and tells them to do a good job. It's human and recognizable. The kind of thing you'd see in a cowboy movie. Except that one of his horses _talks back_ saying, basically, "Man, I'ma do my best, but you better get right with the fact that you gonna die on this windy plain of Troy." It couldn't be any weirder if Hunter S. Thompson wrote it. And Achilles, cause he's such a badass says, Don't waste your breath.I know, well I know -- I am destined to die here, far from my dear father,far from mother. But all the same, I will never stoptil I drive the Trojans to their bloody fill of war.Then he yells "eeYeah!" whips the horse into action and goes off to kill, well, everybody. Now, before we get to the climax, it's important to recognize how out of control this war gets. Diomedes, a Greek, tries to kill love. He wounds a goddess, Aphrodite. Like, I understand heartbreak, and I understand anger. But I've never wanted to KILL love. And then he turns right around and spears the GOD of WAR through the stomach, forcing him to leave the field. Diomedes is a badass and he gets very little press. And as much of a badass as Diomedes is, he's not the fiercest warrior in the story. That's Achilles, who now uncorks his entire can of whoop-ass. Ultimately he kills Hector, the Trojan's most valiant warrior, and drags his corpse around the city behind his chariot. The war doesn't end in the Iliad. The book ends with Hector's funeral. But the feeling among the Trojans is that the war is lost. That great stuff about the Trojan horse we actually get from Virgil, a Roman poet who wrote much later, in the Aeneid. FINALLY BRINGING IT ALL HOME So with all of that as an explanation -- and forgive me if I got a little carried away, but it's a great story. Let me finally get to my point and bring this whole thing home. A great work of art can be read in many different ways. And all of them are profitable. That's what makes the Canon the canon. The works are deep, almost beyond belief. To me, it appears that the modern-day humanities have abandoned this understanding in the pursuit of social justice. And it's not that the impulse towards justice is wrong -- it's that they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Of course, there is the crass stupidity of dismissing Homer as an old dead white guy. Homer was, at best, just the guy who wrote the story down, but he seems to be just a representation of a very long tradition of oral poets who come from a culture alien to ours. And if you believe Julian Jaynes, not even, for much of their history, possessing what we think of as interior consciousness. But this very alien quality -- and the unbelievable intellectual flourishing of Greece before the Peloponnesian war -- are what make this culture worth studying. Because they were human and brilliant and highly successful, but totally different from us. It's like the benefits of travel. I don't think people are fundamentally different anywhere you go. But if you only stay in one place or culture, what you think of as fundamentally human, is very narrow. But the farther you range in your travels and you're reading, the more of what is really, truly fundamental, important and beautiful about being human is revealed. So here's what I take from my last psychological reading of the Iliad. Agamemnon is a venial and corrupt leader. Achilles is the height of competence, but and because of the corruption of the political structure, he refuses to play the game. And what's more, he's absolutely right about the leadership being terrible. There are other competent actors, more responsible and mature actors among the Greeks -- Diomedes, Odysseus, and others -- who stay in the game, but ultimately, the only way to victory -- a victory that can't be had without paying a terrible price -- is for everybody to get over themselves, put their ego's aside, and do their best. The Iliad is not romantic about war. Everybody suffers and loses horribly. It reads quite fatalistically to me. Wars happen because the gods toy with us. And whatever you might think of Julian Jaynes theory of the development of consciousness -- I bet when you're in a war, that's exactly what it feels like -- the gods toying with you. The quotes are from the Robert Fagles translation of the Iliad -- which I like very much. He's clean and fast and readable preserving the adventure story quality in his translations of the Odyssey, the Iliad, and the Aeneid. And you can get a Kindle edition of the Iliad for, I kid you not, .60 cents. Can you even get a soda out of a soda machine for that anymore? Go buy it. You're swimming in Western Culture, might as well take a few pains to understand it. Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey is also really good. And she's working on a translation of the Iliad. But if you've the impulse to dip into the Illiad Maybe don't wait. Because right now it feels like the gods are toying with us all, all the time. Get full access to How It's Written by Patrick E. McLean at patrickemclean.substack.com/subscribe

Click here for episode transcript: https://bit.ly/3bPaQ5T-htz-14 If you were a modern-day Noah, what books would you bring on the ark with you? We spend this episode exploring our answers to that question, but send us an email and let us know your choices! This Episode Features: Leveling Up in Animal Handling; Just So Many Books; and Elect-o-goggles, New from Whamco! Links Genesis 6: https://www.esv.org/Genesis+6/ The Dangerous Book for Boys - Conn and Hal Iggulden: https://amzn.to/39zm24k A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L’Engle: https://amzn.to/2UUrvxD Star Trek: A Piece of the Action: https://amzn.to/2R23TG1 Inferno - Dante Alighieri (tr. Anthony Esolen): https://amzn.to/39kSN5h Romans 1-2: https://www.esv.org/Romans+1;Romans+2/ City of God - Augustine: https://amzn.to/2xzXZ8e Institutes of the Christian Religion - John Calvin (tr. Henry Beveridge): https://amzn.to/3ayzw1M The Total Money Makeover - Dave Ramsey: https://amzn.to/2xyM3Ud The Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien: https://amzn.to/3bDwNUO That Hideous Strength - C.S. Lewis: https://amzn.to/2JvnslO Taliesin - Stephen R. Lawhead: https://amzn.to/2QZ71m8 12 Rules for Life - Jordan B. Peterson: https://amzn.to/39w5oCL The Great Tradition - ed. Richard Gamble: https://amzn.to/3bzIbku A Pattern Language - Christopher Alexander: https://amzn.to/2xCgPf2 The Gulag Archipelago - Alexandr Solzhenitsyn: https://amzn.to/2xA0szw The Aeneid - Virgil (tr. Robert Fagles): https://amzn.to/2R1jVjn The Comedy - Dante Alighieri: https://amzn.to/340afuN Complete Works - William Shakespeare: https://amzn.to/3azHqYv The Conquest of Gaul - Julius Caesar: https://amzn.to/3azsdH9 The Essential Writings of Machiavelli: https://amzn.to/2w2038w The Book of the Courtier - Baldesar Castiglione: https://amzn.to/3ayl89J The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels: https://amzn.to/3aJwiZv The Westminster Confession of Faith: https://amzn.to/3dFtFto The Book of Common Prayer: https://amzn.to/2R3mbXA Pilgrim’s Progress - John Bunyan: https://amzn.to/2R0pT4i Critique of Pure Reason - Immanuel Kant: https://amzn.to/2xBEigf Wealth of Nations - Adam Smith: https://amzn.to/2vZydtw The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe - C.S. Lewis: https://amzn.to/2xHnCnq The God Who is There - Francis Schaeffer: https://amzn.to/3bGVbVK How Should We Then Live? - Francis Schaeffer: https://amzn.to/3dJ5ASm Recos Jojo Rabbit: https://amzn.to/2UxBXMo The Houseplant Song - Audio Adrenaline: https://youtu.be/6z37stZQ-8k --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/haltingtowardzion/support

Jeff, Nadine, Robin, Nikki, Lindy, and Elizabeth joined me on a Saturday afternoon to discuss the most recent Reading Envy Readalong - The Odyssey by Homer, most of us reading the translation by Emily Wilson, some reading the translation by Wilson as narrated by Claire Danes. We reflected on favorite moments, memorable characters, and our own experiences with this (literally) epic work. Did you readalong or have more to share? Please leave a comment!Download or listen via this link: Reading Envy 185: Loyal Swineherd Subscribe to the podcast via this link: FeedburnerOr subscribe via Apple Podcasts by clicking: SubscribeOr listen through TuneIn Or listen on Google Play Listen via StitcherListen through Spotify Other mentions:The Odyssey by Homer, translated by Robert FaglesThe Odyssey by Homer, translated by Samuel ButlerThe Odyssey by Homer, translated by Alexander PopeThe Odyssey by Homer, graphic novel adaptation by Gareth HindsThe Penelopiad by Margaret AtwoodHouse of Names by Colm ToibinUlysses by James JoyceCirce by Madeline MillerThe Silence of the Girls by Pat BarkerA Thousand Ships by Natalie HaynesOrfeo ed Euridice by Wilhelm Gluck (opera)Hadestown (musical)As I Lay Dying by William FaulknerODY-C by Matt FractionMemorial by Alice OswaldBlack Odyssey by Marcus Gardley (play)Ransom by David MaloufRelated Episodes:  Episode 090 - Reading Envy Readalong: East of Eden with Ellie and Jeff Episode 099 - Readalong: The Secret HistoryEpisode 118 - Reading Envy Readalong: To the Bright Edge of the World Episode 137 - Reading Envy Readalong: The Golden Notebook Episode 157 - Joint Readalong of Gone with the Wind with Book CougarsBook Cougars - Joint Readalong of Sapphira and the Slave Girl Stalk us online:Jenny at GoodreadsJenny on TwitterJenny is @readingenvy on Instagram and LitsyAll readalongs are #readingenvyreadalong on all social media

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen. Used w permission.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen. Used w permission.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen. Used w permission.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen. Used w permission.

Translated by Robert Fagles. Read by Ian McKellen. Used w permission.

In episode 6, Brendan begins the Ode to Man with a deep discussion on deinos. Performances Referenced: Antigone by Sophocles translated by Robert Fagles [1985] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgAVZcw1b2g Day 2: Antigone in Ferguson Performance: Theater of War ENG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_E8EMcj4lw Music from https://filmmusic.io "Private Reflection" by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/) "Thinking Music" by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/) "I Knew a Guy" by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)

Guess who's back, back again? Agamemnon returns home to Argos after the decade-long Trojan War. And, well, things don't go super well for him. Recommended Listening: XXVII, XL, XLI, plus the entire Trojan War if you're down to binge. CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing. Sponsor! for your free wedding website and $50.00 off your registry on Zola.com, visit Zola.com/mythsbaby! Sources: The Oresteia (Agamemnon) translated by Robert Fagles and The Greek Myths by Robin Waterfield. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guess who's back, back again? Agamemnon returns home to Argos after the decade-long Trojan War. And, well, things don't go super well for him. Recommended Listening: XXVII, XL, XLI, plus the entire Trojan War if you're down to binge.CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.Sponsor! for your free wedding website and $50.00 off your registry on Zola.com, visit Zola.com/mythsbaby!Sources: The Oresteia (Agamemnon) translated by Robert Fagles and The Greek Myths by Robin Waterfield.Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

At the turning point in his journey, Odysseus and his men land on the island of Aeaea and meet the enchantress Circe. This is my paraphrase of Book 10 of the Odyssey, based on Robert Fagles translation.“They found Circe’s polished stone palace in a clearing. Mountain wolves and lions roamed around the doorway like dogs, bewitched into gentleness by her drugs. They could hear the goddess inside at her loom, weaving beautiful fabrics and singing in an enchanting voice.” Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/mythmatterspodcast)

THE STORY:  (56 minutes)   As Greek and Trojan forces openly clash on the plains of Troy the goddess Athena imbues a Greek warlord – Diomedes – with fearsome, godlike powers of combat.  So with the Trojan forces in disarray and on the verge of wholescale panic, Hector decides on an audacious plan to save his army.  But can Hector survive his own plan? THE COMMENTARY:  CAN WAR BE BOTH TERRIBLE and GLORIOUS?  (17 minutes; begins at 56:00) This post-story commentary examines both the “glorious” and the “terrible” faces of the Trojan War.  I first review the arestia of Diomedes, which dominates much of the story in this podcast episode.  I point out that Diomedes’ arestia (or moment of supreme excellence in battle) follows the usual arestia pattern found in Homer's Iliad.  The hero is first imbued with god-like powers; the hero’s armour and weapons are then imbued with god-like radiance (the helmet “burns like a fire”; the bronze spear tip “is like a gleaming star”); the hero racks up an impressive kill count against worthy opponents; the hero receives a setback or injury, but recovers quickly; and the hero goes on to even greater glories before the arestia ends, and the hero becomes “normal” again.  I note that in Homer only heroes are granted an arestia – rank and file foot soldiers are never so lucky.  I then observe that the arestia can be understood as a “compensatory gift” from the gods to a worthy human – the compensation being necessary because the human, no matter how worthy, is ultimately doomed to die.  Finally I observe that sometimes an arestia ends with the death of the hero:  when a hero forgets, at the critical moment, that he is not really a god. I then launch into an exploration of arestia in contemporary movies, noting that I could find plenty of examples of arestia in superhero or fantasy genre films, but very few arestia in movies based on real human warfare.  This leads me to some hypothesizing about whether, in the 20th and 21st century, we are culturally uncomfortable celebrating “glorious war” – possibly the machine guns and poison gas of World War One dampened our enthusiasm a little?  I then turn to Homer’s treatment of war in the Iliad, and observe that it is remarkably neutral and even-handed.  Homer spares us none of the graphic, gory realities of the battlefield (save for a total absence in Homer of any long term, lingering, or psychological injuries), and Homer is brutally clear-eyed on the civilian price of war (rape, slavery, butchery and death).  But Homer equally paints a picture of fighting men exulting in the sheer, giddy pleasure of knowing “how to step in deadly dance of hand to hand combat”.  I turn the final words of my post-story commentary over to Bernard Knox, a Homer translator; because I think he says it best:   "Three thousand years have not changed the human condition in this respect. We are still lovers and victims of the will to violence, and so long as we are, Homer will be read as its truest interpreter." Homer, tr. Robert Fagles, intro. Bernard Knox, The Iliad (Penguin Classics, 1991) Jeff RELATED CONTENT ANTHEM FOR DOOMED YOUTH, 1917 poem by Wilfred Owen PDF RELATED IMAGES

Elizabeth Samet, professor of English at West Point and author of Soldier's Heart: Reading Literature Through Peace and War at West Point and No Man's Land: Preparing for War and Peace in Post-9/11 America (and editor of the newly published Leadership: Essential Writings by Our Greatest Thinkers), joins the show to talk about teaching the humanities in the military, why she balked at learning the fine art of parachuting, how she tried (and failed) to convince Robert Fagles that Hector is the moral center of the Iliad, and a whole lot more! Bonus: I tell a long, awful and emotional story around the 75-minute mark. NOTE: The opinions Elizabeth Samet expresses in this interview are her own and do not necessarily reflect those of West Point, the Department of the Army, or the Department of Defense.

Enhance your appreciation of American Players Theatre's 2015 production of An Iliad, by Lisa Peterson and Denis O’Hare, translated from Homer’s Iliad by Robert Fagles, with this enlightening conversation with director John Langs and actor Jim DeVita, who plays The Poet.  Listen on your way to or from the theater to gain insight into the play, and the artistic decisions that make the APT production special.

Kathryn Court joined Penguin Books in 1977 and became Editorial Director two years later. In l984 she was named Editor in Chief of Viking Penguin and in 1992 Senior Vice-President, Publisher, and Editor in Chief of Penguin Books. She was named President of Penguin Books in August 2000. Authors she has worked with include: Reinaldo Arenas, Andrea Camilleri, J.M. Coetzee, Slavenka Drakulic, Mary Relinda Ellis, Robert Fagles, Josephine Humphreys, Garrison Keillor, Nora Okja Keller, Donna Leon, Mary McGarry Morris, John Mortimer, Richard Rodriguez, C.J. Samsom, Jim Trelease, and William Trevor. We met at BookExpo in New York, and talk here about: the role of publisher, artist Chris Ware's funky Candide cover, new ways of selling things you already own, showing the young that reading can be fun, finding new authors and having faith in them, Andrea Camilleri and the benefit of buying series, hard cover versus soft cover sales, 4000 title backlists that finance front lists, J.M. Coetzee's greatness, sales and distain for interviewers, the need for confidence in young editors in order to convince others that their picks are as good as they say they are, advertising in book review sections and how it doesn't work, how emotional novels and those with voices women can identify with sell best, the three million copy selling The Memory Keeper's Daughter, the sales power of word of mouth, and the joyful intensity of working as part of an editorial team…as a happy few against the world.