Podcasts about zoroastrians

This interview offers an insightful discussion with anthropologist Tanya Luhrmann, whose pioneering scholarship has significantly advanced our comprehension of magic, esotericism, and witchcraft. In this academic interview, we critically examine Luhrmann's influential notion of "interpretive drift"—the incremental cognitive process by which individuals progressively adopt and internalise magical beliefs and practices.We engage with her seminal ethnographic research on contemporary magical and esoteric communities, investigating how practitioners utilise rituals, visualisation techniques, and imaginative practices to foster potent experiential encounters. Luhrmann elucidates the psychological and sociocultural mechanisms that underpin and sustain belief in magic and witchcraft, illuminating how rational actors negotiate and integrate esoteric practices within their quotidian existence.Employing ethnographic case studies and rigorous theoretical analyses, we explore the broader implications of Luhrmann's findings for understanding the endurance and attractiveness of magical thought within contemporary secularised societies. Scholars, practitioners, and those intrigued by the enduring relevance of magical belief will find this discussion academically stimulating, providing nuanced insights into humanity's enduring inclination to engage with the transcendent and extraordinary.Get Prof Luhrmann's bookshttps://amzn.to/4lDeYKjhttps://amzn.to/42zNVqAhttps://amzn.to/4jISm9vhttps://amzn.to/3Gfz11fABOUT OUR GUESTanya Luhrmann is a professor of anthropology at Stanford University, specialising in the study of spiritual experiences and their relation to religious practices. In her research, she analyses the ways in which people in various religions and spiritualities ‘kindle' experiences of invisible others like gods, spirits and demons. Among the groups she has studied are evangelical Christians, Contemporary Pagans, magicians, Zoroastrians, Catholics, Santeria initiates, and newly orthodox Jews. She links their experiences to a variety of practices like prayer, ritual, storytelling and the cultivation of the inner senses.She was named to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2003, received a John Guggenheim Fellowship award in 2007, and was elected to the American Philosophical Society in 2022. Her book ‘When God Talks Back' was named a ‘New York Times' Notable Book of the Year and a ‘Kirkus Reviews' Best Book of the Year. It was awarded the $100,000 Grawemeyer Prize for Religion by the University of Louisville. She has published over thirty op-eds in ‘The New York Times', and her work has been featured in ‘The New Yorker', ‘The New York Review of Books', the ‘Times Literary Supplement', ‘Science News', and many other publications. She is the author of ‘Persuasions of the Witch's Craft', ‘The Good Parsi', ‘Of Two Minds', ‘When God Talks Back', ‘Our Most Troubling Madness', and ‘How God Becomes Real', and is currently at work on a book entitled ‘Voices'.If you want to participate in her research, reach out to her atluhrmann@stanford.eduCONNECT & SUPPORT

The Holy Symeon was bishop of the royal cities of Seleucia and Ctesiphon in Persia, during a great persecution under King Sapor II. The king had been incited by (Zoroastrian) Magi jealous of the growth of the Faith in their territory, and by some Jews living in Persia. The king was already displeased with the holy bishop: his eunuch, Ustazan, a secret Christian, had denied Christ, but when reprimanded by Symeon, had confessed the Faith before the King, for which he was executed. On Holy Friday of 343 Symeon, along with at least a hundred other servants of the Church, was sent out to be slain. Symeon exhorted each to be of good courage, and was himself slain last. One year later, again on Holy Friday, the King's eunuch Azat was executed for Christ, along with a great number of the faithful. It is said that more than 1,000 Christians died as martyrs during this persecution.   The Zoroastrians still live in parts of Iran as a small, somewhat persecuted minority under the Islamic government.

Tanya Luhrmann is a professor of anthropology at Stanford University. Her work focuses on the edge of experience: voices, visions, and the world of the supernatural. From Chicago to London, and from India to Ghana, she has studied Zoroastrians, Evangelical Christians, Orthodox Jews, and people who practice magic. Two of her notable books include When God Talks Back and How God Becomes Real: Kindling the Presence of Invisible Others. Tanya joins the podcast to discuss how people cultivate relationships with the divine in their everyday lives. Why is God imperceptible to some people, but not others? Could God really be speaking to some, but remain silent to others? To explore this mystery, check out our essay by Joshua Moritz, entitled “Waiting on the Invisible God.” Join our growing community of 45,000+ listeners and be notified of new episodes of Templeton Ideas. Subscribe today. Follow us on social media: Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube.

This episode we are taking a trip down the Silk Road--or perhaps even the Spice Road--as we investigate references in this reign to individuals from "Tukara" who seem to have arrived in Yamato and stayed for a while. For photos and more, see our podcast webpage:  https://sengokudaimyo.com/podcast/episode-119 Rough Transcript   Welcome to Sengoku Daimyo's Chronicles of Japan.  This is episode 119: The Question of “Tukara”   Traveling upon the ocean was never exactly safe.  Squalls and storms could arise at any time, and there was always a chance that high winds and high waves could capsize a vessel.  Most people who found themselves at the mercy of the ocean could do little but hold on and hope that they could ride out whatever adverse conditions they met with.  Many ships were lost without any explanation or understanding of what happened to them.  They simply left the port and never came back home. And so when the people saw the boat pulling up on the shores of Himuka, on the island of Tsukushi, they no doubt empathized with the voyagers' plight.  The crew looked bedraggled, and their clothing was unfamiliar.  There were both men and women, and this didn't look like your average fishing party.  If anything was clear it was this:  These folk weren't from around here. The locals brought out water and food.  Meanwhile, runners were sent with a message:  foreigners had arrived from a distant place.  They then waited to see what the government was going to do.     We are still in the second reign of Takara Hime, aka Saimei Tenno.  Last episode we talked about the palaces constructed in Asuka, as well as some of the stone works that have been found from the period, and which appear to be referenced in the Nihon Shoki—at least tangentially.   The episodes before that, we looked at the expeditions the court sent to the far north of Honshu and even past Honshu to Hokkaido. This episode we'll again be looking past the main islands of the archipelago to lands beyond.  Specifically, we are going to focus on particularly intriguing references to people from a place called “Tukara”.  We'll talk about some of the ideas about where that might be, even if they're a bit  far-fetched. That's because Tukara touches on the state of the larger world that Yamato was a part of, given its situation on the far eastern edge of what we know today as the Silk Road.  And is this just an excuse for me to take a detour into some of the more interesting things going on outside the archipelago?  No comment. The first mention of a man from Tukara actually comes at the end of the reign of Karu, aka Koutoku Tennou.  We are told that in the fourth month of 654 two men and two women of “Tukara” and one woman of “Sha'e” were driven by a storm to Hiuga.  Then, three years later, the story apparently picks up again, though possibly referring to a different group of people.  On the 3rd day of the 7th month of 657, so during the second reign of Takara Hime, we now hear about two men and four women of the Land of Tukara—no mention of Sha'e—who drifted to Tsukushi, aka Kyushu.  The Chronicles mention that these wayfarers first drifted to the island of Amami, and we'll talk about that in a bit, but let's get these puzzle pieces on the table, first.  After those six people show up, the court sent for them by post-horse.  They must have arrived by the 15th of that same month, because we are told that a model of Mt. Sumi was erected and they—the people from Tukara—were entertained, although there is another account that says they were from “Tora”. The next mention is the 10th day of the 3rd month of 659, when a Man of Tukara and his wife, again woman of Sha'e, arrived.  Then, on the 16th day of the 7th month of 660, we are told that the man of Tukara, Kenzuhashi Tatsuna, desired to return home and asked for an escort.  He planned to pay his respects at the Great Country, i.e. the Tang court, and so he left his wife behind, taking tens of men with him. All of these entries might refer to people regularly reaching Yamato from the south, from a place called “Tukara”.  Alternately, this is a single event whose story has gotten distributed over several years, as we've seen happen before with the Chronicles.  .  One of the oddities of these entries is that the terms used are not consistent.  “Tukara” is spelled at least two different ways, suggesting that it wasn't a common placename like Silla or Baekje, or even the Mishihase.  That does seem to suggest that the Chronicles were phonetically trying to find kanji, or the Sinitic characters, to match with the name they were hearing.   I would also note that “Tukara” is given the status of a “kuni”—a land, country, or state—while “sha'e”, where some of the women are said to come from, is just that, “Sha'e”. As for the name of at least one person from Tokara, Kenzuhashi Tatsuna, that certainly sounds like someone trying to fit a non-Japanese name into the orthography of the time.  “Tatsuna” seems plausibly Japanese, but “Kenzuhashi” doesn't fit quite as well into the naming structures we've seen to this point. The location of “Tukara” and “Sha'e” are not clear in any way, and as such there has been a lot of speculation about them.  While today there are placenames that fit those characters, whether or not these were the places being referenced at the time is hard to say. I'll actually start with “Sha'e”, which Aston translates as Shravasti, the capital of the ancient Indian kingdom of Kosala, in modern Uttar Pradesh.  It is also where the Buddha, Siddartha Gautama, is said to have lived most of his life after his enlightenment.  In Japanese this is “Sha'e-jou”, and like many Buddhist terms it likely comes through Sanskrit to Middle Chinese to Japanese.  One—or possibly two—women from Shravasti making the journey to Yamato in the company of a man (or men) from Tukara seems quite the feat.  But then, where is “Tukara”? Well, we have at least three possible locations that I've seen bandied about.  I'll address them from the most distant to the closest option.  These three options were Tokharistan, Dvaravati, and the Tokara islands. We'll start with Tokharistan on the far end of the Silk Road.  And to start, let's define what that “Silk Road” means.  We've talked in past episodes about the “Western Regions”, past the Han-controlled territories of the Yellow River.   The ancient Tang capital of Chang'an was built near to the home of the Qin dynasty, and even today you can go and see both the Tang tombs and the tomb of Qin Shihuangdi and his terracotta warriors, all within a short distance of Xi'an, the modern city built on the site of Chang'an.  That city sits on a tributary of the Yellow River, but the main branch turns north around the border of modern Henan and the similarly sounding provinces of Shanxi and Shaanxi.  Following it upstream, the river heads north into modern Mongolia, turns west, and then heads south again, creating what is known as the Ordos loop.  Inside is the Ordos plateau, also known as the Ordos Basin.  Continuing to follow the Yellow river south, on the western edge of the Ordos, you travel through Ningxia and Gansu—home of the Hexi, or Gansu, Corridor.  That route eventually takes to Yumenguan, the Jade Gate, and Dunhuang.  From there roads head north or south along the edge of the Taklamakan desert in the Tarim basin.  The southern route travels along the edge of the Tibetan plateau, while the northern route traversed various oasis cities through Turpan, Kucha, to the city of Kashgar.  Both routes made their way across the Pamirs and the Hindu Kush into South Asia. We've brought up the Tarim Basin and the Silk Road a few times.  This is the path that Buddhism appears to have taken to get to the Yellow River Basin and eventually to the Korean Peninsula and eastward to the Japanese archipelago.  But I want to go a bit more into detail on things here, as there is an interesting side note about “Tukara” that I personally find rather fascinating, and thought this would be a fun time to share. Back in Episode 79 we talked about how the Tarim basin used to be the home to a vast inland sea, which was fed by the meltwater from the Tianshan and Kunlun mountains.  This sea eventually dwindled, though it was still large enough to be known to the Tang as the Puchang Sea.  Today it has largely dried up, and it is mostly just the salt marshes of Lop Nur that remain.  Evidence for this larger sea, however, can be observed in some of the burials found around the Tarim basin.  These burials include the use of boat-shaped structures—a rather curious feature to be found out in the middle of the desert. And it is the desert that was left behind as the waters receded that is key to much of what we know about life in the Tarim basin, as it has proven to be quite excellent at preserving organic material.  This includes bodies, which dried out and naturally turned into mummies, including not only the wool clothing they were wearing, but also features such as hair and even decoration. These “Tarim mummies”, as they have been collectively called, date from as early as 2100 BCE all the way up through the period of time we're currently talking about, and have been found in several desert sites: Xiaohe, the earliest yet discovered; Loulan, near Lop Nur on the east of the Tarim Basin, dating from around 1800 BCE; Cherchen, on the southern edge of the Tarim Basin, dating from roughly 1000 BCE; and too many others to go into in huge detail. The intriguing thing about these burials is that  many of them don't have features typically associated with people of ethnic Han—which is to say traditional Chinese—ancestry, nor do they necessarily have the features associated with the Xiongnu and other steppe nomads.  In addition they have colorful clothing  made from wool and leather, with vivid designs.  Some bodies near Hami, just east of the basin, were reported to have blonde to light brown hair, and their cloth showed radically different patterns from that found at Cherchen and Loulan, with patterns that could reasonably be compared with the plaids now common in places like Scotland and Ireland, and previously found in the Hallstadt salt mine in Central Europe from around 3500 BCE, from which it is thought the Celtic people may have originated. At the same time that people—largely Westerners— were studying these mummies, another discovery in the Tarim basin was also making waves.  This was the discovery of a brand new language.  Actually, it was two languages—or possibly two dialects of a language—in many manuscripts, preserved in Kucha and Turpan.  Once again, the dry desert conditions proved invaluable to maintain these manuscripts, which date from between the late 4th or early 5th century to the 8th century.  They are written with a Brahmic script, similar to that used for Sanskrit, which appears in the Tarim Basin l by about the 2nd century, and we were able to translate them because many of the texts were copies of Buddhist scripture, which greatly helped scholars in deciphering the languages.  These two languages were fascinating because they represented an as-yet undiscovered branch of the Indo-European language family.  Furthermore, when compared to other Indo-European languages, they did not show nearly as much similarity with their neighbors as with languages on the far western end of the Indo-European language family.  That is to say they were thought to be closer to Celtic and Italic languages than something like Indo-Iranian.  And now for a quick diversion within the diversion:  “Centum” and “Satem” are general divisions of the Indo-European language families that was once thought to indicate a geographic divide in the languages.  At its most basic, as Indo-European words changed over time, a labiovelar sound, something like “kw”,  tended to evolve in one of two ways.  In the Celtic and Italic languages, the “kw” went to a hard “k” sound, as represented in the classical pronunciation of the Latin word for 100:  Centum.  That same word, in the Avestan language—of the Indo-Iranian tree—is pronounced as “Satem”, with an “S” sound.  So, you can look at Indo-European languages and divide them generally into “centum” languages, which preserve the hard “k”, or “Satem” languages that preserve the S. With me so far? Getting back to these two newly-found languages in the Tarim Basin, the weird thing is that they were “Centum” languages. Most Centum languages are from pretty far away, though: they are generally found in western Europe or around the Mediterranean, as opposed to the Satem languages, such as Indo-Aryan, Iranian, Armernian, or even Baltic Slavic languages, which are much closer to the Tarim Basin.  So if the theory were true that the “Centum” family of Indo-European languages developed in the West and “Satem” languages developed in the East, then that would seem to indicate that a group of a “Centum” speaking people must have migrated eastward, through the various Satem speaking people, and settled in the Tarim Basin many thousands of years ago. And what evidence do we have of people who look very different from the modern population, living in the Tarim Basin area long before, and wearing clothing similar to what we associated with the progenitors of the Celts?  For many, it seemed to be somewhat obvious, if still incredible, that the speakers of this language were likely the descendants of the mummies who, in the terminology of the time, had been identified as being of Caucasoid ancestry.  A theory developed that these people were an offshoot of a group called the Yamnaya culture, which may have arisen around modern Ukraine as an admixture between the European Hunter Gatherers and the Caucasian Hunter Gatherers, around 3300-2600 BCE.  This was challenged in 2021 when a genetic study was performed on some of the mummies in the Tarim basin, as well as several from the Dzungarian basin, to the northeast.  That study suggested that the people of the Dzungarian basin had genetic ties to the people of the Afanasievo people, from Southern Siberia.  The Afanasievo people are connected to the Yamnayan culture. It should be noted that there has long been a fascination in Western anthropology and related sciences with racial identification—and often not in a healthy way.  As you may recall, the Ainu were identified as “Caucasoid” by some people largely because of things like the men's beards and lighter colored hair, which differ greatly from a large part of the Japanese population.  However, that claim has been repeatedly refuted and debunked. And similarly, the truth is, none of these Tarim mummy burials were in a period of written anything, so we can't conclusively associated them with these fascinating Indo-European languages.  There are thousands of years between the various burials and the manuscripts. These people  left no notes stashed in pockets that give us their life story.   And Language is not Genetics is not Culture.  Any group may adopt a given language for a variety of reasons.  .  Still, given what we know, it is possible that the ancient people of the Tarim basin spoke some form of “Proto-Kuchean”, but it is just as likely that this language was brought in by people from Dzungaria at some point. So why does all this matter to us?  Well, remember how we were talking about someone from Tukara?  The Kuchean language, at least, is referred to in an ancient Turkic source as belonging to “Twgry”, which led several scholars to draw a link between this and the kingdom and people called Tukara and the Tokharoi.  This leads us on another bit of a chase through history. Now if you recall, back in Episode 79, we talked about Zhang Qian.  In 128 BCE, he attempted to cross the Silk Road through the territory of the Xiongnu on a mission for the Han court.  Some fifty years earlier, the Xiongnu had defeated the Yuezhi.  They held territory in the oasis towns along the north of the Taklamakan dessert, from about the Turpan basin west to the Pamirs. The Xiongnu were causing problems for the Han, who thought that if they could contact the remaining Yuezhi they could make common cause with them and harass the Xiongnu from both sides.  Zhang Qian's story is quite remarkable: he started out with an escort of some 99 men and a translator.  Unfortunately, he was captured and enslaved by the Xiongnu during his journey, and he is even said to have had a wife and fathered a child.  He remained a captive for thirteen years, but nonetheless, he was able to escape with his family and he made it to the Great Yuezhi on the far side of the Pamirs, but apparently the Yuezhi weren't interested in a treaty against the Xiongnu.  The Pamirs were apparently enough of a barrier and they were thriving in their new land.  And so Zhang Qian crossed back again through Xiongnu territory, this time taking the southern route around the Tarim basin.  He was still captured by the Xiongnu, who spared his life.  He escaped, again, two years later, returning to the Han court.  Of the original 100 explorers, only two returned: Zhang Qian and his translator.  While he hadn't obtained an alliance, he was able to detail the cultures of the area of the Yuezhi. Many feel that the Kushan Empire, which is generally said to have existed from about 30 to 375 CE,was formed from the Kushana people who were part of the Yuezhi who fled the Xiongnu. In other words, they were originally from further north, around the Tarim Basin, and had been chased out and settled down in regions that included Bactria (as in the Bactrian camel).  Zhang Qian describes reaching the Dayuan Kingdom in the Ferghana valley, then traveling south to an area that was the home of the Great Yuezhi or Da Yuezhi.  And after the Kushan empire fell, we know there was a state in the upper regions of the Oxus river, centered on the city of Balkh, in the former territory of the Kushan empire. known as “Tokara”.  Geographically, this matches up how Zhang Qian described the home of the Da Yuezhi.  Furthermore, some scholars reconstruct the reading of the Sinic characters used for “Yuezhi” as originally having an optional reading of something like “Togwar”, but that is certainly not the most common reconstructed reading of those characters.  Greek sources describe this area as the home of the Tokharoi, or the Tokaran People.  The term “Tukhara” is also found in Sanskrit, and this kingdom  was also said to have sent ambassadors to the Southern Liang and Tang dynasties. We aren't exactly certain of where these Tokharan people came from, but as we've just described, there's a prevailing theory that they were the remnants of the Yuezhi and Kushana people originally from the Tarim Basin.  We know that in the 6th century they came under the rule of the Gokturk Khaganate, which once spanned from the Liao river basin to the Black Sea.  In the 7th and 8th centuries they came under the rule of the Tang Empire, where they were known by very similar characters as those used to write “Tukara” in the Nihon Shoki.  On top of this, we see Tokharans traveling the Silk Road, all the way to the Tang court.  Furthermore, Tokharans that settled in Chang'an took the surname “Zhi” from the ethnonym “Yuezhi”, seemingly laying claim to and giving validation to the identity used back in the Han dynasty.   So, we have a Turkic record describing the Kuchean people (as in, from Kucha in the Tarim Basin) as “Twgry”, and we have a kingdom in Bactria called Tokara and populated (according to the Greeks) by people called Tokharoi.  You can see how this one term has been a fascinating rabbit hole in the study of the Silk Roads and their history.  And some scholars understandably suggested that perhaps the Indo-European languags found in Kucha and Turpan  were actually related to this “Tokhara” – and therefore  should be called “Tocharian”, specifically Tocharian A (Kuchean) or Tocharian B (Turfanian). The problem is that if the Tokharans were speaking “Tocharian” then you wouldn't expect to just see it at Kucha and Turpan, which are about the middle of the road between Tokhara and the Tang dynasty, and which had long been under Gokturk rule.  You would also expect to see it in the areas of Bactria associated with Tokhara.  However, that isn't what we see.  Instead, we see that Bactria was the home of local Bactrian language—an Eastern Iranian language, which, though it is part of the Indo European language family, it is not closely related to Tocharian as far as we can tell. It is possible that the people of Kucha referred to themselves as something similar to “Twgry”, or “Tochari”, but we should also remember that comes from a Turkic source, and it could have been an exonym not related to what they called themselves.  I should also note that language is not people.  It is also possible that a particular ethnonym was maintained separately by two groups that may have been connected politically but which came to speak different languages for whatever reason.   There could be a connection between the names, or it could even be that the same or similar exonym was used for different groups. So, that was a lot and a bit of a ramble, but a lot of things that I find interesting—even if they aren't as connected as they may appear.  We have the Tarim mummies, which are, today, held at a museum in modern Urumqi.  Whether they had any connection with Europe or not, they remain a fascinating study for the wealth of material items found in and around the Tarim basin and similar locations.  And then there is the saga of the Tocharian languages—or perhaps more appropriately the Kuchean-Turfanian languages: Indo-European languages that seem to be well outside of where we would expect to find them. Finally, just past the Pamirs, we get to the land of Tokhara or Tokharistan.  Even without anything else, we know that they had contact with the court.  Perhaps our castaways were from this land?  The name is certainly similar to what we see in the Nihon Shoki, using some of the same characters. All in all, art and other information suggest that the area of the Tarim basin and the Silk Road in general were quite cosmopolitan, with many different people from different regions of the world.  Bactria retained Hellenic influences ever since the conquests of Alexander of Macedonia, aka Alexander the Great, and Sogdian and Persian traders regularly brought their caravans through the region to trade.  And once the Tang dynasty controlled all of the routes, that just made travel that much easier, and many people traveled back and forth. So from that perspective, it is possible that one or more people from Tukhara may have made the crossing from their home all the way to the Tang court, but if they did so, the question still remains: why would they be in a boat? Utilizing overland routes, they would have hit Chang'an or Louyang, the dual capitals of the Tang empire, well before they hit the ocean.  However, the Nihon Shoki says that these voyagers first came ashore at Amami and then later says that they were trying to get to the Tang court. Now there was another “Silk Road” that isn't as often mentioned: the sea route, following the coast of south Asia, around through the Malacca strait and north along the Asian coast.  This route is sometimes viewed more in terms of the “spice” road If these voyagers set out to get to the Tang court by boat, they would have to have traveled south to the Indian Ocean—possibly traveling through Shravasti or Sha'e, depending on the route they chose to take—and then around the Malacca strait—unless they made it on foot all the way to Southeast Asia.  And then they would have taken a boat up the coast. Why do that instead of taking the overland route?  They could likely have traveled directly to the Tang court over the overland silk road.  Even the from Southeast Asia could have traveled up through Yunnan and made their way to the Tang court that way.  In fact, Zhang Qian had wondered something similar when he made it to the site of the new home of the Yuezhi, in Bactria.  Even then, in the 2nd century, he saw products in the marketplace that he identified as coming from around Szechuan.  That would mean south of the Han dynasty, and he couldn't figure out how those trade routes might exist and they weren't already known to the court.  Merchants would have had to traverse the dangerous mountains if they wanted to avoid being caught by the Xiongnu, who controlled the entire region. After returning to the Han court, Zhang Qian actually went out on another expedition to the south, trying to find the southern trade routes, but apparently was not able to do so.  That said, we do see, in later centuries, the trade routes open up between the area of the Sichuan basin and South Asia.  We also see the migrations of people further south, and there may have even been some Roman merchants who traveled up this route to find their way to the Han court, though those accounts are not without their own controversy. In either case, whether by land or sea, these trade routes were not always open.  In some cases, seasonal weather, such as monsoons, might dictate movement back and forth, while political realities were also a factor.  Still, it is worth remembering that even though most people were largely concerned with affairs in their own backyard, the world was still more connected than people give it credit for.  Tang dynasty pottery made its way to the east coast of Africa, and ostriches were brought all the way to Chang'an. As for the travelers from Tukhara and why they would take this long and very round-about method of travel, it is possible that they were just explorers, seeking new routes, or even on some kind of pilgrimage.  Either way, they would have been way off course. But if they did pass through Southeast Asia, that would match up with another theory about what “Tukara” meant: that it actually refers to the Dvaravati kingdom in what is now modern Thailand.  The Dvaravati Kingdom was a Mon political entity that rose up around the 6th century.  It even sent embassies to the Sui and Tang courts.  This is even before the temple complexes in Siem Reap, such as Preah Ko and the more famous Angkor Wat.  And it was during this time that the ethnic Tai people are thought to have started migrating south from Yunnan, possibly due to pressures from the expanding Sui and Tang empires.  Today, most of what remains of the Dvaravati kingdom are the ruins of ancient stone temples, showing a heavy Indic influence, and even early Buddhist practices as well.  “Dvaravati” may not actually be the name of the kingdom but it comes from an inscription on a coin found from about that time.  The Chinese refer to it as  “To-lo-po-ti” in contemporary records.  It may not even have been a kingdom, but  more of a confederation of city-states—it is hard to piece everything together.  That it was well connected, though, is clear from the archaeological record.  In Dvaravati sites, we see coins from as far as Rome, and we even have a lamp found in modern Pong Tuk that appears to match similar examples from the Byzantine Empire in the 6th century.  Note that this doesn't mean it arrived in the 6th century—similarly with the coins—but the Dvaravati state lasted until the 12th century. If that was the case, perhaps there were some women from a place called “Shravasti” or similar, especially given the Indic influence in the region. Now, given the location of the Dvaravati, it wouldn't be so farfetched to think that someone might sail up from the Gulf of Thailand and end up off-course, though it does mean sailing up the entire Ryukyuan chain or really running off course and finding yourself adrift on the East China sea.  And if they were headed to the Tang court, perhaps they did have translators or knew Chinese, since Yamato was unlikely to know the Mon language of Dvaravati and people from Dvaravati probably wouldn't know the Japonic language.  Unless, perhaps, they were communicating through Buddhist priests via Sanskrit. We've now heard two possibilities for Tukara, both pretty far afield: the region of Tokara in Bactria, and the Dvaravati kingdom in Southeast Asia.  That said, the third and simplest explanation—and the one favored by Aston in his translation of the Nihon Shoki—is that Tukara is actually referring to a place in the Ryukyu island chain.  Specifically, there is a “Tokara” archipelago, which spans between Yakushima and Amami-Oshima.  This is part of the Nansei islands, and the closest part of the Ryukyuan island chain to the main Japanese archipelago.  This is the most likely theory, and could account for the entry talking about Amami.  It is easy to see how sailors could end up adrift, too far north, and come to shore in Hyuga, aka Himuka, on the east side of Kyushu.  It certainly would make more sense for them to be from this area of the Ryukyuan archipelago than from anywhere else.  From Yakushima to Amami-Oshima is the closest part of the island chain to Kyushu, and as we see in the entry from the Shoku Nihongi, those three places seem to have been connected as being near to Japan.  So what was going on down there, anyway? Well, first off, let's remember that the Ryukyuan archipelago is not just the island of Okinawa, but a series of islands that go from Kyushu all the way to the island of Taiwan.  Geographically speaking, they are all part of the same volcanic ridge extending southward.  The size of the islands and their distance from each other does vary, however, creating some natural barriers in the form of large stretches of open water, which have shaped how various groups developed on the islands. Humans came to the islands around the same time they were reaching the Japanese mainland.  In fact, some of our only early skeletal remains for early humans in Japan actually come from either the Ryukyuan peninsula in the south or around Hokkaido to the north, and that has to do with the acidity of the soil in much of mainland Japan. Based on genetic studies, we know that at least two groups appear to have inhabited the islands from early times.  One group appears to be related to the Jomon people of Japan, while the other appears to be more related to the indigenous people of Taiwan, who, themselves, appear to have been the ancestors of many Austronesian people.  Just as some groups followed islands to the south of Taiwan, some appear to have headed north.  However, they only made it so far.  As far as I know there is no evidence they made it past Miyakoshima, the northernmost island in the Sakishima islands.  Miyako island is separated from the next large island, Okinawa, by a large strait, known as the Miyako Strait, though sometimes called the Kerama gap in English.  It is a 250km wide stretch of open ocean, which is quite the distance for anyone to travel, even for Austronesian people of Taiwan, who had likely not developed the extraordinary navigational technologies that the people who would become the Pacific Islanders would discover. People on the Ryukyu island chain appear to have been in contact with the people of the Japanese archipelago since at least the Jomon period, and some of the material artifacts demonstrate a cultural connection.  That was likely impacted by the Akahoya eruption, about 3500 years ago, and then re-established at a later date.  We certainly see sea shells and corals trade to the people of the Japanese islands from fairly early on. Unlike the people on the Japanese archipelago, the people of the Ryukyuan archipelago did not really adopt the Yayoi and later Kofun culture.  They weren't building large, mounded tombs, and they retained the character of a hunter-gatherer society, rather than transitioning to a largely agricultural way of life.  The pottery does change in parts of Okinawa, which makes sense given the connections between the regions.  Unfortunately, there is a lot we don't know about life in the islands around this time.  We don't exactly have written records, other than things like the entries in the Nihon Shoki, and those are hardly the most detailed of accounts.  In the reign of Kashikiya Hime, aka Suiko Tennou, we see people from Yakushima, which is, along with Tanegashima, one of the largest islands at the northern end of the Ryukyu chain, just before you hit Kagoshima and the Osumi peninsula on the southern tip of Kyushu.  The islands past that would be the Tokara islands, until you hit the large island of Amami. So you can see how it would make sense that the people from “Tokara” would make sense to be from the area between Yakushima and Amami, and in many ways this explanation seems too good to be true.  There are a only a few things that make this a bit peculiar. First, this doesn't really explain the woman from “Sha'e” in any compelling way that I can see.  Second, the name, Kenzuhashi Tatsuna doesn't seem to fit with what we generally know about early Japonic names, and the modern Ryukyuan language certainly is a Japonic language, but there are still plenty of possible explanations.  There is also the connection of Tokara with “Tokan”, which is mentioned in an entry in 699 in the Shoku Nihongi, the Chronicle that follows on, quite literally to the Nihon Shoki.  Why would they call it “Tokan” instead of “Tokara” so soon after?  Also, why would these voyagers go back to their country by way of the Tang court?  Unless, of course, that is where they were headed in the first place.  In which case, did the Man from Tukara intentionally leave his wife in Yamato, or was she something of a hostage while they continued on their mission?   And so those are the theories.  The man from “Tukara” could be from Tokhara, or Tokharistan, at the far end of the Silk Road.  Or it could have been referring to the Dvaravati Kingdom, in modern Thailand.  Still, in the end, Occam's razor suggests that the simplest answer is that these were actually individuals from the Tokara islands in the Ryukyuan archipelago.  It is possible that they were from Amami, not that they drifted there.  More likely, a group from Amami drifted ashore in Kyushu as they were trying to find a route to the Tang court, as they claimed.  Instead they found themselves taking a detour to the court of Yamato, instead. And we could have stuck with that story, but I thought that maybe, just maybe, this would be a good time to reflect once again on how connected everything was.  Because even if they weren't from Dvaravati, that Kingdom was still trading with Rome and with the Tang.  And the Tang controlled the majority of the overland silk road through the Tarim basin.  We even know that someone from Tukhara made it to Chang'an, because they were mentioned on a stele that talked about an Asian sect of Christianity, the “Shining Religion”, that was praised and allowed to set up shop in the Tang capital, along with Persian Manicheans and Zoroastrians.  Regardless of where these specific people may have been from, the world was clearly growing only more connected, and prospering, as well. Next episode we'll continue to look at how things were faring between the archipelago and the continent. Until then thank you for listening and for all of your support. If you like what we are doing, please tell your friends and feel free to rate us wherever you listen to podcasts.  If you feel the need to do more, and want to help us keep this going, we have information about how you can donate on Patreon or through our KoFi site, ko-fi.com/sengokudaimyo, or find the links over at our main website,  SengokuDaimyo.com/Podcast, where we will have some more discussion on topics from this episode. Also, feel free to reach out to our Sengoku Daimyo Facebook page.  You can also email us at the.sengoku.daimyo@gmail.com.  Thank you, also, to Ellen for their work editing the podcast. And that's all for now.  Thank you again, and I'll see you next episode on Sengoku Daimyo's Chronicles of Japan.  

This week, Gilly's with Niloufer Mavalvala to discover the food of the Zorastrians in the fourth of her compendium, The Route to Parsi Cooking.This is about food without borders, a cuisine which is under threat as so many are when their people are displaced. But as we hear so often on this show, they can also become the roots to a culture. With only about 200k Zoroastrians living around the world, Niloufer tells Gilly why she has taken it upon herself to revive this ancient cuisine.Click here for Extra Bites of Niloufer on Gilly's Substack Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Zoroastrians, Jews, Christians & Other Minorities in Iran, Part IV: An Overview n this episode, I explore the multifaceted history of Persian Jews in 20th-century Iran, focusing on the challenges of national and religious identity under the Pahlavi regime and the Islamic Republic. From the pressures of "Iranization" and modernization to the post-revolutionary shift towards religious identity, I examine how these changes influenced the Jewish community's cultural, social, and political landscape. We delve into the effects of state policies on education, representation, and religious practices, along with the strategies Jewish leaders adopted to navigate loyalty to Iran while distancing themselves from Zionism. The episode also highlights the significant emigration of Iranian Jews due to political and societal challenges, offering a broader perspective on the situation of religious minorities in Iran. I'd love to hear your thoughts and questions—feel free to share them below in the comment section or email me at orientalistics@gmail.com. I look forward to your insights! Keywords #PersianJews; #IranianHistory; #ReligiousMinorities; #JewishCommunity; #PahlaviEra; #IslamicRevolution; #IranianJudaism; #ReligiousDiscrimination; #JewishIdentity; #IranianPolitics; #Zionism; #Zoroastrians; #HolocaustDenial; #CulturalAdaptation; #Emigration; #Shiism; #ReligiousFreedom; #IranianStudies #Bahais #Christians #SufiOrders #Sufism

Part III: Religious Minorities in Modern Iran ‎ In this episode, I delved into the intricate dynamics of religious minorities in the Islamic Republic of Iran. ‎We explored how the 1979 Islamic Revolution brought ideological shifts that reshaped policies and ‎attitudes toward non-Muslim communities. From the strategic public relations campaigns projecting ‎tolerance to the underlying systemic discrimination entrenched in laws, the discussion unravelled the ‎complexities of the state's dual narrative.‎ I also examined the social realities faced by Iran's religious minorities, including Persian Jews, Christians, ‎and Zoroastrians, and how they navigate a society shaped by both solidarity and segregation. The ‎episode further addressed Iran's ideological opposition to Zionism, its domestic policies toward Jewish ‎communities, and the broader global implications of its approach to diversity.‎ This conversation offered a nuanced look at the contradictions between ideology and practice, shedding ‎light on the delicate balance between state policies and societal attitudes. Your thoughts and reflections ‎are welcome—let's keep the dialogue going!‎ Keywords ‎ ‎#ReligiousMinorities; #IranianHistory; #IslamicRevolution; #ShiiteIslam; #MinorityRights; ‎‎#IslamicRepublic; #Zionism; #ReligiousDiscrimination; #HumanRights; #IranianJews; #Zoroastrianism; ‎‎#ChristianityInIran; #InterfaithRelations; #ClericalInfluence; #PersianSociety; #ToleranceAndContradictions; #IranianConstitution‎

Iran's Religious Minorities, Part II: Status of Religious Minorities in Iranian Islam In this episode, we delve into the relationship between Iranian Islam and religious minorities throughout ‎history, focusing on their evolving status and rights. During the early Islamic centuries, religious ‎minorities such as Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians—collectively known as ahl al-kitāb (People of the ‎Book)—were granted protected status (dhimma) in exchange for paying the jizya tax and accepting ‎Muslim authority. This system, although unequal, offered some security and religious freedom.‎ As Islamic theology and jurisprudence developed, interpretations of non-Muslims' roles and rights ‎became stricter, with significant variations depending on the era and ruling authorities. In contemporary ‎Iran, the Islamic Republic's constitution, grounded in Shiite jurisprudence, institutionalizes inequalities ‎between Muslims and non-Muslims. Shiites are afforded privileges unavailable to other groups, while ‎restrictions persist on roles, marriages, and daily interactions. These regulations are influenced not only ‎by Islamic texts but also by pre-Islamic practices, notably Zoroastrian purity laws.‎ We also touch on how the Iranian Revolution of 1979 impacted minority communities, highlighting ‎issues of exclusion, discrimination, and self-preservation among non-Muslim groups. The discussion ‎offers a nuanced perspective on the complex interplay between religion, politics, and minority rights in ‎both historical and modern contexts.‎ Let me know your thoughts, or share any questions in the comments below. Thank you for listening!‎ Keywords ‎#IranianIslam #ReligiousMinorities #Dhimma #IslamicHistory #ShiiteJurisprudence #PodcastDiscussion‎ ‎#Kadivar #Sunni #Shiite #IranianIslam #Dhimma #AhlAlKitab

Iran's Religious and Ethnic Diversity, Part I: Introduction This episode delves into the rich tapestry of Iran's religious, linguistic, and ethnic diversity, tracing its ‎roots from the ancient Persian empires to the transformative events of the Islamic Revolution of 1979. ‎Iran's historical role as a crossroads of civilizations has shaped a multi-ethnic society, with Persian as the ‎national language alongside numerous minority languages and dialects. Religiously, while Shiism ‎dominates, smaller communities of Sunni Muslims, Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and Bahā'īs ‎contribute to the nation's pluralistic identity.‎ We explore how efforts at centralization during the Pahlavi era—through language policies, land ‎reforms, and modernization—sought to homogenize this diversity, often with limited success. The ‎Islamic Revolution then ushered in a Shiite theocracy, profoundly impacting Iran's sociopolitical fabric. ‎Recognized religious minorities, such as Zoroastrians, Christians, and Jews, face varying degrees of ‎inclusion and restrictions, influenced by constitutional provisions and state strategies.‎ From Reza Shah's modernization policies to Khomeini's establishment of a dual governance system, ‎the episode examines the tension between Iran's vibrant diversity and the state's attempts to impose ‎ideological unity.‎ Keywords ‎#IranDiversity #ReligiousPluralism #IslamicRevolution #PersianHeritage #EthnicMinorities #Jews ‎‎#Iranianjews #Rezashah #Khomeini #Iran‎

Non-Muslims in the Iranian Context Iran's non-Muslim minorities, including Zoroastrians, Christians, Jews, and Bahá'ís, navigate a complex landscape within the predominantly Shiite Muslim context. Despite legal recognition for some, like Zoroastrians and Christians, they often face social and legal discrimination. The Bahá'í community, in particular, experiences severe persecution. These groups have significantly contributed to Iran's cultural and intellectual heritage. The Iranian Constitution provides certain rights, but the reality is often marked by restrictions and challenges. Efforts for greater religious freedom and interfaith dialogue exist but encounter resistance from conservative factions within the government and society. This conversation with Dr. Mehdi Aghazamani from Voice of America and was conducted on November 16, 2018, in Persian. For more information, please click here to watch the full video ایرانیان غیر مسلمان در فرهنگ و ادب ایران

Iona Italia talks to Nev March about her novel, Murder in Old Bombay, set in late 19th-century India and about the Zoroastrians of Bombay past and present.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Show Notes and Transcript A warm welcome for the return of Anni Cyrus, host of "Live Up to Freedom" to provide a detailed analysis of Iran's history and its impact on the Middle East.  She traces Iran's journey from Zoroastrianism to the Islamic Revolution of 1979, highlighting the societal changes and challenges faced under the Islamic regime.  Anni explores Iran's relationships with neighbouring countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey, shedding light on power struggles and religious divisions in the region.  She also discusses Iran's media censorship, political landscape, and foreign policy towards Israel, emphasizing the use of proxies for influence.  We end with reflections on the possibilities for change in Iran and its implications for regional stability. Aynaz “Anni” Cyrus is the founder of ‘Live Up To Freedom', she was born in 1983 into an Islamic family in Iran, after the Islamic Revolution removed the Shah and turned the “mini-America” of the Middle East into an Islamic tyranny. Given no choice, Aynaz was labeled as a Muslim by birth. Under Sharia (Islamic Law) she grew up under total Islamic dominance by her father, a Sheikh, and her mother, a Quran teacher. At age nine, Aynaz rejected Islam completely in her heart and mind. It happened on her 9th birthday when the Islamic state, in a public ceremony, declared the absurdity that she would be, from that day forward by law, an adult woman. Over the next six years, Aynaz suffered terrible, but legal by Islamic Law, abuses and punishments at the hands of many Islamic males of Iran. After being forcibly sold by her own father into an extremely violent marriage, Aynaz desperately sought escape from her hell as a child bride. Even after being visibly battered one last time, the Islamic courts denied her a divorce from the man who was clearly bound to beat her to death. So at age 15, facing death by one way or the other, Aynaz got herself smuggled out of Iran, to save her own life. Knowing nothing of the life of freedom for women and girls outside of Iran or Islam, she ran into what she calls “The Unknown.” But her running was a crime, for which, to this day, she stands condemned to death by stoning under Sharia. Aynaz then gained asylum in Turkey through the United Nations. But, as an unaccompanied minor, she was obligated to wait three more years. Finally, at age 18 her petition to become an American citizen was approved. After a further delay following 9/11, Anyaz was allowed entry into the United States on August 8, 2002. She became a naturalized and proud American citizen in 2010. Since 2011, Aynaz has produced the popular Internet video series, “The Glazov Gang”, hosted by renowned author in the counter-jihad movement, Dr. Jamie Glazov. Aynaz also appears in many of the show's hundreds of segments. Years of her media appearances are found in public speaking venues, interviews, videos, and articles, published in affiliation with The David Horowitz Freedom Center, Jihad Watch, Breitbart, American Thinker, Worldview Weekend, and American Truth Project, to mention a few. Connect with Anni….. WEBSITE            liveuptofreedom.com GETTR:               gettr.com/user/AnniCyrus X                          x.com/LiveUpToFreedom INSTAGRAM       instagram.com/aynazcyrus TELEGRAM         t.me/Liveuptofreedom Interview recorded 19.4.24 Connect with Hearts of Oak... WEBSITE            heartsofoak.org PODCASTS        heartsofoak.podbean.com SOCIAL MEDIA  heartsofoak.org/connect SHOP                  heartsofoak.org/shop *Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast. Check out his art theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com and follow him on X twitter.com/TheBoschFawstin Transcript  (Hearts of Oak) And I'm delighted to have Anni Cyrus back with us again. Anni, thank you so much for your time today. (Anni Cyrus) Absolutely. My pleasure. It's been a while. It has. That's exactly what I was thinking. It has been a while. And current events bring us together with the madness and chaos over in the Middle East. And who better, I thought, than asking on is Anni Cyrus. But first, people can find you @LiveUpToFreedom. Tell us about your show. Just give people, give the viewers, if they don't follow you, give them a taster of what they can find and what you put out. Absolutely. So Live Up to Freedom, which is also the name of my show, we produce two shows a week at the moment, hoping to somehow get to five days a week. But the majority of information that is produced on Live Up to Freedom is related to Middle East, Islamization, Sharia, and the dangers of red-green axis. 90% of the time, this is the type of educational programming. I mean, I don't force my opinion, but I will give you evidence from the Quran, from the Sira, from the Sura, every single one evidence coming from their own word, proving the fact that the possibility of us coexisting, not really possible. I'm with you 100%. And I do want your opinion, full force. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to getting your thoughts. But maybe I can ask you, we have watched what has happened with Israel, obviously, and then watched what has happened with Iran responding. Most of the viewers, whether they're US-based or UK-based, have zero concept of how Iran fits in the Middle East. They may have an understanding of, if they know history, of the Persian Empire. So it is a history that stretches back thousands of years. But today, few people in the West have an idea, I guess, of how Iran fits in. But obviously, you're Iranian-born. You live in the States at the moment. Maybe just touch on that about Iran and how it fits in with that, I guess, illustrious history over the thousands of years? How does Iran kind of fit in to the Middle East jigsaw? Sure. So let me start from here. Since you brought up the Persian Empire, let me just set the record straight about Persians versus Persian Empire. There's this thing going on lately that Persians don't exist because Persia doesn't exist. I want to make it very clear. Iran, as you know it today, is what was of Persia. So by nationality, we are Iranians. By race, we are Persians. Why is this important? Because there's a difference between nationality and race. And that's where actually we get all confused between racism, if you're criticized Islam, because a lot of nations now carry Islam. If you say something against Islam, they're racism Islam. Their race could be Persian, could be Indian, could be Arab. Now, Arab race has a breakdown. Again, Syrian Arabs have their own DNA. Saudi Arabian Arabs have their own DNA. However, there's one group of Arabs that don't have DNA, Peter, and that is Palestinians. The reason it's important to say we're Persians, nationality Iranian, is because we can make the point of there is no such a race as Palestinians. If you would do a DNA test on anyone in Palestine claiming to be Palestinian, you would find the DNAs of Syrian Arabs. You would find Iraqi Arabs. You would find even Egyptian blood. But you wouldn't find a Palestinian race blood because it doesn't exist. Now, I'm going to pull a leftist here and say, if you're willing to call them Palestinian by race, well, I identify as a Persian, so you're going to call me a Persian. That being said, Persian Empire down to a smaller size, down to a smaller size to today, which is a tiny bit of Islamic Republic of Iran, has always been the heart of Middle East. Literally the heart. Depending on how Iran beats, Middle East operates. That's why it's the heart. You go back, we're not going to even go 2,700 years ago. Let's not do that. We could. Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, freed the Jews in Babylon, told them you're free, and there you go. Temple Mount is there. That's how much Persia or Iran has been the heart. But recent, 45 years ago, 47, 50 years ago, when Iran was under the kingdom of Shah Pahlavi, you look at Middle East, there was peace. Prosperity, lots and lots of import and export financially, economy of Middle East was in good shape. Every neighbour country was also in good shape as far as culture, freedom, education goes. Islamic regime took over in a matter of 45 years. Not only Iran itself with all the resources Iran has, and I'm just going to name a few. Iran is number one land of making saffron. We have the second top quality pistachio. I'm not going to even go into the oil industry because everybody's aware of that. And then considering between Afghanistan and Iran, you have the two only countries producing opium. Well, I know some people misuse it, but it still is important material we need. So with all the resources, Iranian people, more than 82% are living life under the line of poverty by international standards. Same thing with the neighbours. You got the Turkey, you got Pakistan, you got Afghanistan, Azerbaijan. That is how much Iran's operation has affected not only Middle East, but over here with Western countries. I hope that answered the question. Oh, it does. I want to go back because we look at Islamic connection with Iran. But if you go, I mean, long time prior to the Islamic revolution in, it was 79, you've got from different breakups of the kingdom. And before that, you had from, I think, from the 20s, the Iranian state. So Islam was not in it. Tell us kind of how Iran kind of fits into that, where it's now known as the Islamic Republic of Iran. But before that, Islam wasn't in the name. Does that mean Islam was not part of the culture? Sure. Yes. So if we go back way back, way back, about 2,700 years ago, all the way to about 1,800 years ago, that period of time, majority of Iranians were known as Zoroastrians. There were some other atheists, there were Jews, there were Christians, all that. But then the Battle of Mohammed started 1,400 years ago. Now, what was the Battle of Muhammad? Muhammad started from Mecca, then went to Medina, then conquered Saudi Arabia. Now, who was the competition? Who was the biggest challenge? Persian Empire. Persia was standing up. They even sent messengers to the king of that time saying, have your people convert to Islam and we'll leave you alone. The king was like, no, we're good. We're not going to force anybody. So the very first time, the very first attack of Islamic attack, which in history books, you read them as Arab attacks. Yes, there were Saudi Arabians, but the attack wasn't about race. It had nothing to do with land versus land or people versus people. It was Mohammed continuing to conquer of Islamization to basically, you know, the global caliphate, which then global was just that area. The first attack happened. They couldn't conquer. The second one couldn't conquer on and on and on and on for a long time. In meantime, some of the Iranians or Persians decided to convert by choice, by choice, until one of the Iranians who by choice converted decided to become a traitor and basically start cooperating with the Arabs. That was the first time I want to say about probably 800, 700 years ago is when the first time of conquering people of Persia happened. A lot of Zoroastrians escaped. They went to India. That's why you see somewhat the biggest population of Zoroastrians are found in India. They took refuge in India. Some converted, some were killed, some became dhimmis and gradually either converted or died and fast forward all the way to almost, I want to say, 90, 92 years ago, when one of the kingdoms of Iran on the Qajar, or you guys pronounce it Qajar dynasty, they actually ruled under Islam. The king in the kingdom decided we will rule under, the full hijab came to the country. The full mosque building started. And then Pahlavi dynasty returned that. They didn't get rid of Islam, but they did return the country into America, freedom of religion. If you want to be a Muslim, be a Muslim. If you want to be Christian, be a Christian, anything. Until the first king, Pahlavi, decided to actually ban Sharia in Iran. Nobody was allowed to wear hijab, mosques were shut down. And surprise, surprise, England and France got involved and told him that you're going to lose power if you don't give them their freedom back. So the decision was the father will step down, the son will take over. And they will allow Sharia to continue. On top of that, they will allow one representative of Islam or Muslim community of Iran to step into Congress. The rest is history. Literally 20 years later, Islamic revolution happened and it has never gone back. But it's not just Iran, I guess, has a history. Think Egypt having a long history. Lebanon, I know, reading the Bible and you hear about the cedars of Lebanon. And then you think of Saudi Arabia and you think of the House of Saud. But a long time before that, there were different emirates in that area. And some of those countries have been artificially created, maybe like Jordan. But other countries actually have got a history of thousands of years. How does that work? Because as a Brit, I think of Europe and the struggle with the nations in Europe for dominance with France, Spain, with the UK. What is that kind of struggle like in the Middle East with those countries that have a long history? Well, another country we can name is Afghanistan. If you look, Afghanistan is a pretty recent conqueror of Islamization. Right around 1979 when Iran was conquered, very shortly before that, Afghanistan was conquered. Afghanistan has a long history of battling back and forth and by the way I sometimes feel like people of Afghanistan are not getting the credit they deserve they have such a long and pure history, cultural music involved in art involved they have some of the most unique musical instrument you find out there that is now westernized and used but nobody knows because everybody thinks Afghanistan was, you know, Islamic country from day one, and Afghans were all Muslim. That is not what it is. Now, that battle, with Saudi Arabia, you need to realize when Mohammed, you know, came up and said, I am the prophet, the majority of people in Saudi Arabia were. I can't pronounce the English, when you believe in more than one god, polygamous? Is that the word? Polytheism? There you go, polytheism. So with Saudi Arabia, there is a much deeper root of Islam. It was literally the first introduced religion that unified the country. It did, or nation. But the rest of Middle Eastern countries those who are not as you said artificial those that existed they were none of them has any roots, none of them, that's the thing sometimes we have this saying in Middle East is like, oh you're just a Muslim born, meaning you're not really Muslim and I'm like, that doesn't exist, it doesn't because nobody the root, except of Saudi Arabia, there is no other race or nation that was the start. So that the struggle for every single Middle Eastern country back and forth between this. Now, again, I even during the Pahlavi kingdom, Peter, nobody minded Muslims. Nobody did because it wasn't the constitution. You wanted to be a Muslim, be a Muslim. But then on the other end of the city, you would find, you know, restaurants and bars and concerts. And women with short skirts. The struggle in Middle East even as recent as two years ago in Afghanistan. It's the matter of literally forcing this Islam into the country rather than allowing it, which is one of my main arguments. if this religion is such a religion of peace, why is it that wherever it goes it's forced, feared, blood involved. If it's so peaceful why can't they get people to convert on their own, but rather have to force them to do it. So that has been the struggle of last literally 1400 years. Today, you find people from Saudi Arabia who reject Sharia. They don't want their constitution to be Sharia anymore. Now, do we have Sharia-based constitution in Western countries? No. But are many of them already living life under Sharia? I would say, for example, London is a great city to name. I have not been to London because they won't let me come to England. But the last time I left London was January of 2011. And sometimes when I look at some of the videos or live feeds coming from London, like that's not where I was. That's not what I remember of London. So not to make it even longer than I did, if Western countries don't realize that there needs to be an absolute cap and limitation, the struggle of Middle East will start coming here, where you constantly have the battle of Islamization, de-Islamization, Islamization, de-Islamization, and gradually the culture will disappear. I hate to say it, when I look at my fellow Iranians today, there isn't much of Persian culture left anymore. it's something of a confused Arab versus Persian, versus Sharia, versus Western. It's a very mixed up where, sadly, you can't really pinpoint anything left of that land or country or culture and behaviour of the people. Half of the Farsi they speak, I don't even understand. I'm like, what is that? Any of the leaders, they started talking. I'm like, okay, you're not a speaking Farsi. It's full on Arabic at this point. Tell me, when I talk, and I want to get up to the current day where we are, but I'm curious because I talk to a lot of my African friends, especially in church, and you realize that African nations are tribal-based and there is more allegiance to the tribe than there is to the nation. We look at Nigeria and it's completely separated on tribal lines. What is it like for a country like Iran? Iran is a large country, nearly 90 million, so it has influence in that regard. How does it work when people call themselves Iranian or me? How has it worked prior to the Islamic Revolution in 1979? Where is that kind of identity and connection for Iranians who lived there prior to the revolution? That's actually an interesting question. One of the top things I did a few years ago, one of the things I mentioned about Iran that many people are not aware of is the majority of Iranians are actually bilingual by about age 9 or 10. Because Iran, as of today still, it has, if you look at the map, the south versus northeast versus west. They are tribes, not the African style of tribe, but they do have their own tribes where you have the Kurds who are still within their own culture. Their customs are still the old school, traditional Kurdish. They speak the Kurdish language at home and then they speak the Farsi language, which is the country's language. And then you have the Turks in Tabriz and some of those areas. Again, the food and the music and the language is the Turkish. And again, this is because you shrunk this huge empire down into the small size of the country. A lot of tribes are still in there. You have the Fars, literally, who are the pure Persians, the only non-bilingual people of Iran who only speak Farsi, have the traditional customs of Persia, the way they do their Norse versus the rest of the provinces. Says it's different however somehow for some reason it has always been united regardless of who's from which side or which background, doesn't matter if you're the Arab of the south or if you're the Kurd or you're the Turk or you're the Fars it has always been united until the Islamic revolution, where the country became divided based on Muslims versus non-Muslims. And when I say non-Muslim, Peter, I don't mean Christian or Jew. No, I mean non-Muslims in eyes of the government. Those like Mahsa Amini, who don't wear the proper hijab. Those who don't do the prayer the right way. Those who wear the makeup. Those who have boyfriend or girlfriends, which is against Sharia. Those are the secondary group of people. Tell me about when you think 45 years ago, the revolution, what does that mean for freedom within the country? I know it's claimed to be 99% Muslim, but not just religious, but general freedom within the country. What is it like to live in the current, I guess regime or government in Iran? I'm so glad you asked that I was having a discussion with a friend of mine literally yesterday about this, that it has come to a point where the the lack of freedom isn't, isn't just about your, what you say or what you wear or what you eat anymore. The lack of freedom has gotten to a point where a majority of Iranians, especially the younger generation have lost absolute motivation, that the answer always is, well, so what? Like, why don't you go get a job? It's like, then what? Why don't you go to school? Do what with it? You literally have Uber drivers it's not Uber, it's called a snap I think in Iran, when they pick you up snap, you sit in the car and by the way for those of you, yes I have not been back to Iran but I do have people who are in Iran or just came back from Iran so the information comes from there, now I'm not smuggling myself back. You start talking to the driver and he will tell you that he holds a darn PhD, Peter, but there's no job for him, either because he doesn't belong to IRGC or SEPA or this group of Islam or that group of Islam, or it's the fact that somewhere somehow when he was younger, got arrested and has some sort of morality police stamp on his resume. So he won't be hired or it's the matter of, he is not a Muslim. He's a Baha'i. He can't admit he's a Baha'i. They're going to kill him, so he'd rather drive his own taxi than go get killed. It's just literally there is zero motivation to do anything with your life because one way or another, you'll be blocked by this regime. Genuinely, they wake up in the morning, change their mind about the latest law, and there's nothing to stop them. There is nothing that could stop them from changing the laws every hour. Every house supreme leader can literally wake up this morning and say colour red is forbidden for women, I dare you wear red, They will arrest you. They will probably put you in detention centre. They will drag you to Sharia court and then probably, I don't know, lash you a couple of lashes and you home. Make an example out of you. Nobody else can avoid a wreck. Now, I'm making this up as an example, but to that, the small detail of life is being controlled. Tell us how, within the country, what does it mean for the media? What does it mean for, I mean, some countries like Dubai want to be outward. Focused but still want to be Islamic where other countries like Saudi it's maybe less, so it's wanting to have that pure Islam and there is a less focus on being outward looking, when you think of Iran you think of something which is a closed box because of the devotion to Islam and that cuts off the West so what does that mean within, for education, for media? Okay, so we need to explain something before we even answer that question. By we, I mean me. I identify as... Media in Iran. There is no... private or alternative media. There's just one type of media, which is owned by government, ran by government, approved by government, everything government. There are, I believe six channels of cable, only six. One is dedicated to news. One is dedicated to sports. And the other three, one is dedicated to religion actually. Most of the time, it's like some Mullah sitting there dissecting and fat buzz and Corona and stuff. And then there are two, that is a combination movies, TV series, commercial news, a little bit, things like that. Now, why am I breaking it down is because it is so extremely controlled that it's only six, Only six. For example, the sport channel, you'll never find any kind of female competition inside or outside of Iran out there. You just don't. They cover all of the European leagues, right? The soccer leagues. And you literally see that if they pass by a female audience in a stadium who is wearing makeup or open hair, you literally see them blurred out and then you come back to zoom back in. To that extent what is being aired inside the country's control You can make a movie in Iran, but before you make a movie you got to take your script and your crew names to this department that's going to read the script, either approve it or tweak it then approve it or reject it, if you get approved on your script then you go make the movie, but before you air the movie Peter they will watch how you make this script. If they find one scene, just one scene that they don't like, they'll have you go either redo it, edit it, come back again. A movie can take seven years to be released or two minutes to be rejected. Doesn't matter how much you spend on your movie. It's done. Won't never come out. So that's the internal. Now, they have one, Tenseem is the name of it. I actually report from it a lot. They have one, let's say, kind of like an article or text formatting website that is tied to the regime. And then they have their own Islamic Republic of Iran's broadcasting website. Those are the ones that are being fed propaganda and lies to be published because we outside have access to that. We read that where it makes it look like the country is flawless and people are super happy and the elections are going fantastic, that is the one for external use that is mainly filled with propaganda And how does politics work? How does, are there elections, were there elections before, how does that work in the country? Yes there are, there are selections. There are selection election however it's in your best interest to show up for this election, because one they can create a lot of propaganda video and put it out, number two, now in Iran when you vote they actually stamp like you use your index on a stamp and they you put it on your birth certificate which Iranian birth certificates are like a lot of booklets, now if you have that a printer means you voted. And for example, at the end of the year, when they're giving away coupon for chicken or egg or oil or whatever it is, if you have that fingerprint, you get your coupon. If you don't, well, good luck, go buy it out of your own pocket. So it's a selection coordinated to look like an election. And if you don't show up, well, there are consequences. [Hmm tell me how it, is the focus with Iran with the leadership, is it for dominance within the region and then you're clashing with the other Islamic nations or is it with the destruction of Israel because Iran and Israel don't border, think isn't Iraq between them if I my middle eastern geography is bad so feel free to correct me, but how does it fit in, what is the goal? Is it regional stability and power within the region, or is it focused on hatred towards Israel? Can I go with all of the above? Is that an option? Internally, the regime or the mullahs, internally, main focus is to re-establish a stability. Because literally from 2009 and the Green Movement, on and on and on, they have lost that stability. Every time there's an uprising, it's becoming a stronger, longer, stronger, more planned. So they're trying to gain that stability they had for the first, I don't know, 27 years of their power. That's number one internally. Now, how do they gain that is by creating some sort of dilemma or war for the people of Iran to stand down because they're, at the end of the day, if you look at the history of Iran-Iraq war for eight years, eight years, people of Iran fought. And I can tell you, I have heard directly from the soldiers or from children of those soldiers that they have always said, we didn't fight for the mullahs. We fought for our country. Okay. So with that, if there is a war going on, even if it's a small, even if it's not a major, it doesn't have to be an eight years war, but the regime can reestablish that stability inside. They do have hatred for Israel. I repeat, when Khomeini arrived in Tehran in 1979, he was driven from the plane airport to the biggest and most, I don't know why it's famous, but famous cemetery in Tehran. They put a chair, he sat on it, and he started talking. The very first thing that came out of his mouth was, let the plan begin. We're going to take down the great Satan and wipe Israel off the map. Now, 47 years ago, they already said what they're planning to do. So that's that. They want to wipe Israel off the map. Is it mainly religious beliefs? Yes. But also, it's the fact that they know that as long as Israel exists, Iran will not be able, in any shape or form, or the government of Iran, rest easy knowing they have the land forever. But you've got a, I mean, you could have countries coming together with a focus on a common enemy, which is Israel for everyone. But then you've got, you've got obviously Lebanon and Syria basically failed states, but then you've got Turkey and Saudi and Egypt and the Emirate, Dubai wanting to assert themselves. So is there no coming together against a common enemy? Because Iran seems to be very much still out in the cold in regards to relations with other nations around it. That's a good question. I highly doubt that Iran and Saudi Arabia would ever come together. Again, going back to 1400 years ago, this battle didn't start yesterday and it's not going to end tomorrow. That Saudi Arabia versus Iran, or better yet, Arabs versus Persians war, a battle has been going on for a long time. And is Saudi Arabia targeting Israel enough to put themselves in this scenario? I doubt it. As far as Turkey is concerned, right now, Erdogan is doing a lot of talking. But remember, Erdogan needs to be very careful because they don't want to be kicked out of EU. This much of the country is in Europe. The rest is in Middle East. They worked so hard to squeeze themselves into EU. He's going to have to be very careful because he won't have the allies he has today. If he's kicked back into full on Middle East, that's when Iran is going to come after him. Iran and Turkey on paper, it might seem all good, but Iran and Turkey don't get along either. All the way from the Caliph of Sunnis until today, the Sunni versus Shia scenario has been going on between Turkey and Iran. So I know Erdogan does a lot of talking. I don't believe unless Russia gets involved, Turkey won't get involved. That's the only time Turkey will get involved because now Turkey has the approval of Russia to get involved and back Iran. So let me jump up to the present day. And if my research serves me correct, I don't think Iran has actually struck at Israel since the revolution. And this seems to be from what I've understood knowing little about Iranian politics but it seems to be the the first attack on Israel. Is that correct and how does what Iran have done, the attack on Israel, how does that change things in the region? You are correct. Yes since 79 until today there has never been a direct, a strike or attack from Iran toward Israel. But I go back to the fact that we need to acknowledge they are playing it this way, but we need to remember this attack directly was by IRGC. IRGC is Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. It is not Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Were they put together by Khomeini? Absolutely. Do they belong to the government of Iran? No, there are their own entity freely guarding all Islamic nations. That's why you have their children such as Hezbollah and Houthis and Hamas out there. That being said, I don't, this is not going to be pleasant to a lot of your audience, but I'll say it. Iran's strike or IRGC's strike or Israel's airstrike. Neither one of them were strikes. This just doesn't look like anybody's planning to do anything major. Both Iran and Israel have the military needs, means, sorry, wrong word. To do real damage if they wanted to, This whole, in Farsi, we laugh and say, you know, they knock at each other's door and run and hide. Seems like that's what they're doing. They send a couple of missiles, yeah, 300, lots of missiles and drones, but then they call and say, heads up, in about an hour, hour and a half, fix up your iron dome so we're about to arrive. When was the last time Hamas gave a heads up? Right? October 7th happened, catching everybody off guard. And they left a mark. You know what I mean? This Iran Saturday strike and this Israel striking back, which by the way, Iran is absolutely denying the existence of this attack back. And that's what you need to look at. Iran goes saying, okay, we attack, this is it. If you attack back, we're going to be in a split second, we're going to destroy Israel. Israel attack back and Iran denies it. It ignores it, never happened. Does that look like something is about to change in the Middle East? No. This is all tied back to Western countries. In America, we're in election year. We're in election year. Whatever happens over there can definitely help Biden over here. Europe is in pretty much a lot of chaos. The tests run up. Are they going to sit back and let us do whatever we want to do? Or are they going to dare try to rescue and get attacked in their own countries with our sleeper cells? That's all there is to this I'm not downplaying anything but I know both countries, I've heard and I've seen the capability of both ends, this doesn't look like something that's going to turn into world war three, that's not going to happen No you're right when I read the reports a day before, 100 rockets are going to be fired over and talking to people and they said seriously who gives their enemy that much notice and then the next day 100 came over to the number. So you've got that a show of strength and I get that as a show of strength, especially drones taking three to four hours and it shows you what you can do, but with Iran having so many proxies, I mean Hezbollah are a serious threat to the region and seemingly much more dangerous than Hamas are and they're embedded in Lebanon and Syria. How does that play and does Iran not just use a proxy like Hezbollah to attack Israel instead of firing over what, drones that take four hours? That's not a serious attack, but Hezbollah do seem to be serious. Yes, exactly. And that's where I put my thought process. I'm like, OK, you have Hezbollah and you have Hamas. And again, I go back to October 7. It shocked all of us. Not because we weren't expecting Hamas to be so barbaric. No, it was the fact that nobody called anybody to say, okay, so tomorrow at your music festival, we're coming. That's how you do serious damage. You have Hezbollah, you have Hamas. And I'll go back to what I've said many times, and I've been accused of many things. Israel is not going to take on Iran. You know why? Israel has what it takes to take on Hamas, and they never did. They haven't. I was looking on my Facebook page, and last year, this week, is exactly when this Hamas-Israeli situation was going on, and Biden was on the phone asking for a ceasefire, which Israel ended up doing the ceasefire. Every year. It's a pattern. It just happens. But for anybody to either get excited or get nervous that something's going to come out of this, no. Hezbollah is regrouping, yes. Israel is talking about possibly going into Lebanon, yes. Is any of this going to put an end to this back and forth? I highly doubt it. I do. In no shape or form is it in benefit of anyone involved with globalist groups or elite or deep state. None of whom have any interest in ending this conflict in Middle East. So it's not going to end one way or another, and it's not going to even start. Again, it's that time of the year where everybody needs to get a little dusty in Middle East, and then everybody's going to go home and next year we'll repeat. That's just the way things go. Unfortunately, as much as I wish somebody would finally put their foot down and say enough is enough, nobody's going to do that. They are just giving a break to Hamas for now. While Hezbollah is regrouping IRGC is doing a lot of manoeuvring, And that's it. Now, why is Israel not standing up? Well, that one is a question for Netanyahu. It's interesting watching because, obviously, Israel didn't deal with Hamas before. It's now been forced to deal with Hamas. And Israel are going to do what it takes. That's how it seems. And whatever force is needed for them to secure their security, they will go for. But I guess the Islamic nations have been happy for Hamas to be a thorn in the side and for the Palestinians to be a thorn in the side of Israel because that keeps Israel's defence spending high, it keeps their a threat level high, it keeps that fear, it's perfect to kind of keep Israel nervous and not let them kind of relax a constant state of war I guess. What does it mean if Hamas are removed to a degree? Does it then, do those nations around think, what's next? Does Hezbollah then have to come in and provide that? What does that mean for stability? Because it does seem the country has been happy to sit back and let Hamas do the, let's piss off Israel role. Well actually to emphasize on your point, Hamas and Palestinians were put there exactly for that purpose, now I brought this up a couple of times that we call, I don't, but Western countries you call them Palestinians but if you talk to them, talk to Rashida Talib, for example, and listen to their chants on the streets of UK, France, US, Canada, anywhere, you don't hear Palestine, you hear Philistine. It's Philistine. The enemies of Jews, Philistine. They were picked. This name wasn't specifically picked. Their location wasn't specifically picked. That's one of the reasons when it comes to the argument of Palestinians versus Israel or the Gaza border. I just opened this up. First of all, you don't find an Arab-speaking person who can say Palestine. Again, my mother tongue of Farsi was not Farsi. It's Parsi. Parsi, the language of the Pars people of Persia. It turned into Farsi because in Arabic language there is no character as P they don't say Pepsi they say Bepsi, how do you expect them to say Palestine, no we have turned that into Palestine so we hide the fact that they are the Philistinians the enemies of Jews, so they are put in place and named specifically for that reason. Now, if Israel for any reason would finally come to realize that let's just take him out once and for all, and yes, taking out Hamas is very much doable. And that way, they will force the hands of IRGC and Hezbollah of Lebanon to actually take action. That's when Israel will have what they need legally by international law to actually overthrow the regime of Iran. But they won't. Yeah, and with the Palestinian, we've had Robert Spencer on maybe a month or six weeks ago, and I enjoyed his Palestinian myth book. So 100% with you that it is a made-up terminology. Can I just finish off on Iran and you've been great at giving us a broad sweep I think to help us understand, because many of us are completely unaware of not only where the countries fit in together but where Iran fits in, but what does it mean for Iran and freedom because you want individuals to be able to choose where they live, how they live and to decide they don't want the constant state of tension with their neighbours. What does it mean for Iran going forward? Is there a chance of a revolution in Iran from the people to overthrow the regime and have something which cares about people's rights and freedoms? Or do you not have any great hope for that happening in the near future? This might come as a surprise if... Lord willing, comes November, and we get President Trump back in the office. Within months, there will be an uprising in Iran. The last two times people of Iran tried, unfortunately, once was during Hussein Obama, once was Biden, they couldn't get the help they needed. They couldn't get the Biden regime or Obama regime to put sanctions and pressure on the regime. So they ended up losing a lot of lives, either by being killed or being imprisoned and tortured daily. So they went home. I know for a fact, if President Trump is back in office, people of Iran will try again. Will they be successful? That's when the Israeli government comes to picture. Again, Iran by itself, people of Iran, first of all, remember, they don't have a Second Amendment. Not only that, there are no illegal guns to be bought either. The borders are extremely protected in Iran. You can't even smuggle them into the country. So they're always empty handed. Secondly, the very first thing that happened is the regime cut down, cuts off the internet access to the people, which adds the agony of now what? How do we get the message out? How do we get the people to put pressure on the government? So Israel and America's government play a huge role of what will happen internally in Islamic Republic of Iran next. We need all these sanctions back. We need a lot of economic pressure back on Iran, and we need Israel to keep pushing back. Then people of Iran will have what it takes to finally overthrow these people. Am I hopeful? Always. There's always hope. As Robert Spencer said, it's not over until it's over, and it's not over yet.

Situated right in downtown Mumbai, India is an area of about 55 acres of dense, overgrown forest. In one of the most populous cities in the world, this is a place where peacocks roam freely -- a space out of time. This forest is protected by a religious community. It has survived in a relatively undeveloped state in the middle of this gargantuan city. Importantly, it's also home to an ancient tradition in crisis -- one that is central to the lives (and deaths) of a particular population.There's a certain point in this forest beyond which almost no one can step -- only special caretakers of these grounds can go any further. They go by many names: khandia, nassassalar, pallbearer, corpse bearer. Their work here is holy. They carry dead bodies to their final resting place – atop stone structures that stand gray against the lush green. These buildings are called Towers of Silence.Towers of Silence

Why are there no bear ghosts? Nearly all the ghosts in the world seem to come from a specific period of time, long before any of us were born. There is a universal obsession with death, so we're going to explore death from the perspective of those left behind. (Traditions about what lays beyond will be the subject of another episode.)We talk about the Shiva tradition in Judaism, and the ghastly tradition of shades that dates back to at least as far as the monarch's encounter with the witch of Endor.We explore some traditions common among Christian denominations, and also WAKES! Another strong ghostly tradition exists among Christians, but not universally shared.We look at funerary and ghostly traditions among Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, and Zoroastrians; and we take some time to ponder the Ghanaian Fantasy Coffins, and the New Orleans Jazz Funeral. What really deserves attention is the phenomenon of near-death experiences, not that they teach us about the world beyond, but they teach us an awful lot about ourselves. Raymond Moody put a lot of work into that field of NDEs, too bad it's all completely subjective neural chaos. DMT has been reported to offer a similar experience.All this and more....   Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram. [00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hello, Preston.[00:00:12] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.[00:00:14] Katie Dooley: Get off your phone.[00:00:15] Preston Meyer: Okay.[00:00:18] Katie Dooley: It'll rot your brain on today's episode of--[00:00:21] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast![00:00:24] Katie Dooley: I don't know how to make a segue into this one.[00:00:27] Preston Meyer: This is a bit of a bummer.[00:00:28] Katie Dooley: It's... I feel like it's a more awkward conversation than even our sex talk.[00:00:33] Preston Meyer: I don't feel like it's more awkward.[00:00:34] Katie Dooley: People don't like talking about death. We're going to talk about some gross things today. [00:00:38] Preston Meyer: A little bit. But yeah, death is around us all the time. Can't really avoid it. That's the deal.[00:00:44] Katie Dooley: No, it's, uh, inevitable. Like Thanos.[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: That's what they say. Yeah, so I was talking to. A person that I work with the other day about his concern with ghosts. He was actually really worried about, um, the Titanic 2 expedition and all that nonsense, but the conversation led very quickly to ghosts, and it boggles my mind that we haven't just agreed that everywhere on the planet is super haunted or nowhere is.[00:01:21] Katie Dooley: I have had that thought as well. Um, I don't disagree with him because. My house alone has been around since the 50s. You can't tell me something hasn't died nearby,[00:01:33] Preston Meyer: Right?[00:01:34] Katie Dooley: Actually, I have heard that there is an unfortunate story with the next-door house, so, um,[00:01:40] Preston Meyer: Tell me more.[00:01:41] Katie Dooley: Uh, apparently someone killed themselves next door before the current people...[00:01:44] Preston Meyer: Bummer. Lived there. Are there haunting stories?[00:01:46] Katie Dooley: Not that I've heard of.[00:01:48] Preston Meyer: Okay. Just the unfortunate circumstances of death.[00:01:51] Katie Dooley: Yes, but that's typically.[00:01:54] Preston Meyer: What leads to a...[00:01:55] Katie Dooley: Haunting story. And I always think about how I'm like, you know, get haunted by your cat or your dog. How come ghosts are only humans? There's no bear ghosts.[00:02:03] Preston Meyer: It's a great question. Cocaine bear has unfinished business.[00:02:09] Katie Dooley: We should name this episode, "How come there are no ghosts?" Though I do really like your title, which we will probably stay with. Um. But I have often thought.[00:02:21] Preston Meyer: Yeah, for sure.[00:02:23] Katie Dooley: Or, like... I don't know...[00:02:25] Preston Meyer: Dinosaur ghosts? Why are we not haunted by the soul of absolutely ravaged Triceratops?[00:02:33] Katie Dooley: And also there's like, I don't know, ghosts feel like they're from a very specific time-period. Like, if you hear, like, how come we all have a ghost kicking around from the 1200s?[00:02:42] Preston Meyer: Right? All ghosts are Dickensian.[00:02:44] Katie Dooley: Yeah, or more modern but, uh, anyway.[00:02:54] Preston Meyer: Death is great, and we have really weird ways of dealing with it.[00:02:58] Katie Dooley: We really do. And I will sort of preface this before we break it down by religion is like we kind of think our way is the right way or the normal way. And reading some of these, some was like, that actually makes a lot of sense on how they handle death. And then some of them, I'm like, that's fucking weird, I won't...[00:03:18] Preston Meyer: Well, if you see one thing often enough, even if you aren't behind it theologically, the habits are still your habits. Normal gets normal.[00:03:27] Katie Dooley: Yeah. So that was, you know, eye opening to say the least.houldUm, anyway, so we kick it off with our good old Abrahamic buddies.[00:03:39] Preston Meyer: Let's do it. Stick with what's most familiar, and then we'll dig into. Yeah, the good stuff. So in Judaism, respect for the dead is one of the most important mitzvot. I feel like we've used this word before. It's commandments. So really take care of the dead. Traditionally, Jewish people bury their dead intact. Some people mostly, you know, you're more reform, more liberal Jewish groups will do the cremation thing. I think that's generally the the theme we'll see moving forward is the more conservatives will not like cremation. We're going to run out of space real soon. An interesting thing that I have read about Judaism is that cremation is counted as destruction of property.[00:04:31] Katie Dooley: Who's property?[00:04:35] Preston Meyer: That's an interesting question.[00:04:37] Katie Dooley: God's property. [00:04:38] Preston Meyer: That makes sense. But there's also the strong family thing in Judaism where there's like you, you belong to your family in this way that you are. If you're not moving that body around yourself anymore, you're property.[00:04:56] Katie Dooley: Oh. We'll, move you around. Oh, wait, that's a different tradition to talk about.[00:05:05] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Uh, Jewish people tend to observe a strict week of mourning after a funeral. They call this the shiva. Uh, it's just the number seven. So seven days of mourning. And during this process, mirrors in the home are often covered. And it's good to keep candles burning. And mourners will sit on nice low stools, like low as your squatty potty.[00:05:33] Katie Dooley: I'm too old for that. I'm not even that old.[00:05:36] Preston Meyer: It's a little tough, but these are all indications of mourning. Black veil is good for that. Things like that. Yeah.[00:05:43] Katie Dooley: Abrahamic and Western favour black for mourning.[00:05:48] Preston Meyer: Yeah and traditionally. Uh, you don't want to hasten up a death. You don't want to speed things along, even if you know death is imminent. Our country has a pretty interesting relationship with assisted death.[00:06:05] Katie Dooley: I think it's going to have to change anyway. That's not to digress too much. We could go on and chat about that, but I have my opinion.[00:06:16] Preston Meyer: Yeah, having it available makes perfect sense. The reality of the government actually pressuring people into it. I'm not a big fan of.[00:06:26] Katie Dooley: But I yeah, I mean it shouldn't be a government decision, but just like your pets, to let someone live in pain just so they can live as long as possible. And health care costs are only going to get more expensive, for whomever.[00:06:42] Preston Meyer: If the only activity on your schedule of day-to-day for months on end is eating up resources, at some point you got to figure out maybe there's a better plan.[00:06:54] Katie Dooley: Well, and I care less about resources as opposed to quality of life. Like we have family members that live every day in pain and then they're also paying. For fentanyl patches, which are very expensive to manage that pain that they're still in.[00:07:10] Preston Meyer: Fentanyl is a wild thing.[00:07:13] Katie Dooley: Anyway, wild.[00:07:16] Preston Meyer: Yeah. But as you may have deduced, we're going to talk about some ghosts today.[00:07:23] Katie Dooley: Really wants to talk about ghosts today. So.[00:07:25] Preston Meyer: So the Tanakh does mention ghosts. Um, there's a lot of different kinds of ghosts I've been in unrelated studies, been trying to suss out how different people categorize ghosts.[00:07:39] Katie Dooley: Like angels. [00:07:40] Preston Meyer: with A little bit. Yeah. Okay, so you've got poltergeists who can legit interact with the physical world, and then you've got shades which are not so much.[00:07:51] Katie Dooley: They're there, but they're they can't do anything.[00:07:53] Preston Meyer: Right. Like maybe you can communicate them. Maybe not, but they just they may be barely visible. They might be more visible, but they're not going to interact physically with the world. So they're like a shadow. So that's a shade sort of thing. So what we have in the Tanakh usually talks about shades more than poltergeists that we have in ancient Israel, the belief that ghosts, the spirits of the departed, could be summoned and you could have conversations with them and learn things from them. The story of Saul and the Witch of Endor is an example.[00:08:35] Katie Dooley: That's from Star Wars, right?[00:08:38] Preston Meyer: George Lucas is not half as original as he likes to get credit for. And Endor was just an old place. No Ewoks, which is just Wookiee backwards. Almost not perfect.[00:08:55] Katie Dooley: I see your theory. Yeah, yeah, yeah.[00:08:57] Preston Meyer: No, the plan was that they were going to go to the Wookiee homeworld in Return of the Jedi. And then they couldn't figure out how to do it in a reasonable way. So they decided, okay, we'll make smaller costumes and just cast little people.[00:09:15] Katie Dooley: Okay. Wow. Also, some Star Wars backstory from Preston today. Sorry, I interrupted, and I regret interrupting now.[00:09:26] Preston Meyer: So the shades are a thing that is a matter of concern in Jewish folklore. And in their theology a little bit as well. There are explicit commandments. Do not mess with people who summon ghosts. Which makes sense. And they also talk about shades that can linger in the land and just stay near the place where they lived or where they died. Isaiah talks a little bit about those too. So I think it's kind of interesting. Ghosts, very solid, part of the religious tradition and there are in more recent than biblical texts, traditions of these shades actually possessing a body usually for a short time just to accomplish a specific task. We talked about this a little bit in our voodoo episode. Actually, it's the same sort of idea. [00:10:22] Katie Dooley: Which makes, I was gonna say, makes a bit of sense knowing the origins of Voodoo, right?[00:10:27] Preston Meyer: Well, especially the way it interacted with other religions on its way here. Yeah. So kind of interesting that this possession business is really interesting. And as we get into Christianity, there's stories of ghosts in the New Testament, in Jewish populations where the story feels a lot different, knowing that there's this belief locally that these would be things that dead people are coming back to accomplish, rather than demons like the Greek interpretation jumps onto it. Mhm. It's kind of weird. Kind of fun.[00:11:06] Katie Dooley: Um, you know who loves death? Christian?[00:11:09] Preston Meyer: Uh, I don't even remember where the quote came from originally, but I feel like I've quoted it a few times. Christians are just way too excited to die. '[00:11:19] Katie Dooley: Yeah. Oh, man, they love it. Why is that Preston?[00:11:23] Preston Meyer: That we talk so much about the promise that the next life is going to be better. And yeah, there's there's so much wrong with this world that it makes sense to hope for something better. But when it gets anywhere close to somebody else realizing that you're too excited to die, you have really screwed up where your focuses are.[00:11:44] Katie Dooley: Yeah. And even like trying to try to make it all happen faster, trying to bring up the Second Coming. It's like.[00:11:52] Preston Meyer: Well, there's there's a lot of different ideas of what is supposed to trigger the Second Coming.[00:11:58] Katie Dooley: Humans aren't going to do it.[00:12:00] Preston Meyer: It's outside our control. We can't control God.[00:12:03] Katie Dooley: Doesn't mean people aren't trying because they can't wait. Yeah. Anyway, um, as I mentioned in Christians historically also don't like cremation because there would be no corpse when Jesus comes back and raises everyone from the dead, or he Christians believe in a physical resurrection.[00:12:23] Preston Meyer: Yeah, your body's got to rise from the grave. And as you pivot at the waist, you got to be facing east.[00:12:28] Katie Dooley: That sounds horrifying. It's all these and they all have to claw up six feet. Wow. Yeah.[00:12:37] Preston Meyer: Imagine the horror that this event would be.[00:12:39] Katie Dooley: Yeah. Anyway. But again, a lot of them are more relaxed now. I mean, I think it's just even people in my world, both of my grandparents were cremated and they were Christians. So. Anyway, I feel like they're the most relaxed now of any of the groups. [00:12:59] Preston Meyer: Probably,yeah.[00:13:02] Katie Dooley: I mean, Christian is a really big umbrella.[00:13:06] Preston Meyer: It sure is[00:13:07] But I'm sure there's groups within Christianity that still love a good burial, probably Catholic.[00:13:13] Preston Meyer: So I went to my granddad's funeral last...[00:13:17] Katie Dooley: We both did a bunch of funerals recently.[00:13:18] Preston Meyer: Yeah. What a time.[00:13:20] Katie Dooley: Yeah.[00:13:21] Preston Meyer: And I mean it was interesting that I had never talked about religion at all with my granddad. I'd never thought that he identified as Christian. Found out at his funeral. This was an important detail to somebody. Yeah. So there was a little ash cross dropped on his coffin and was laid down on the ground, making sure that he was facing in a way that if you were to bend at the waist, he'd be facing east. [00:13:52] Katie Dooley: In six feet of dirt.[00:13:53] Preston Meyer: Yeah it was it was an interesting learning experience.[00:13:59] Katie Dooley: Well, good.[00:13:59] Preston Meyer: And now we're talking about death.[00:14:01] Katie Dooley: Now we're talking about death in the terms of Christian wakes are a Christian thing.[00:14:08] Preston Meyer: Yeah. I haven't heard the word wake used a lot outside of a Catholic context. Um, though I'm certainly can't say that that's not happening, but it's certainly an old tradition.[00:14:20] Katie Dooley: Yeahand as someone who's involved with the Irish community, the Irish still love a good wake. I don't know too many other groups that do it. And I don't know if that's because it's Irish or because it's Catholic, like what that Venn diagram looks like. And how much is just the circles I run in. But the Irish love a good wake. The name comes from staying up long hours watching over the dead while reciting psalms.[00:14:43] Preston Meyer: So we're not talking about the risk of the dead waking up. It's just that you got to stay awake to watch the body.[00:14:50] Katie Dooley: To watch.[00:14:51] Preston Meyer: In case it wakes up.[00:14:53] Katie Dooley: in case it wakes up to make sure.[00:14:55] Preston Meyer: I mean, there it does make sense because historically we we have had situations aplenty enough that we've taken precautions.[00:15:05] Katie Dooley: Bells and...[00:15:05] Preston Meyer: Where the bodies do occasionally get back up again after we thought they were dead. But we're just dumb.[00:15:13] Katie Dooley: If you want to hear a great vaudeville song about exactly that, it's called Tim Finnegan's Wake and basically he's dead and everyone's sad. And then someone spills whiskey on him and he comes back to life because whiskey.[00:15:27] Preston Meyer: It's like the plants in my office.[00:15:31] Katie Dooley: Water. Oh. That's terrible. Preston.[00:15:38] Preston Meyer: Uh, no one's perfect.[00:15:41] Katie Dooley: You know, you don't need to keep plants if that's... If you're just gonna kill him.[00:15:45] Preston Meyer: I'm gonna be honest. I don't keep plants in my office, and the person who generally takes care of them generally takes very good care of them. But there are occasionally exceptions.[00:15:59] Katie Dooley: We're not going to do a full episode on Heaven or Hell. But Christians and even Muslims and Jews, depending on whether you're good or bad, good or bad, you get sent to heaven or hell. Dun dun dun. Yes, that definitely deserves its own episode.[00:16:16] Preston Meyer: Yeah, for most of history, the majority of Christians and an awful lot of segments of the Jewish population as well, have believed in a tiered series of heavens. In our angels episode, we talked about the ninth heaven, where like, the greatest of the angels live forever with God. And, um, the seventh heaven is a thing that happens occasionally in the way. What's the word I'm looking for? It's a common enough English idiom. Um, there's a TV show.[00:16:48] Katie Dooley: I know. [00:16:49] Preston Meyer: Who is in that TV show. I watched it for a year.[00:16:53] Katie Dooley: The most famous person out of Seventh Heaven was Jessica Biel. She was the second oldest daughter. Um, the guy who played the Christian pastor ended up being a pedophile in real life.[00:17:03] Preston Meyer: Oh, no.[00:17:04] Katie Dooley: Yeah, she was the most famous. I can't think of any of the other actors names now. Um, the older there was another.[00:17:10] Preston Meyer: Singer who was, like, really popular for a really short time. That was from that show, wasn't there? I don't know. I've got nothing.[00:17:17] Katie Dooley: Maybe as a side character, but of the family, only Jessica Biel made it anywhere significant.  I mean, JT and all and actually having some decent movie roles afterwards,[00:17:27] Preston Meyer: Right? Good for her.[00:17:30] Katie Dooley: Yeah. I mean, considering no one else.[00:17:33] Preston Meyer: Yeah. The phrase I'm on cloud nine. Yeah, I don't think you hear that a whole lot anymore either. But that was a thing.[00:17:38] Katie Dooley: That Cloud Nine superstore.[00:17:39] Preston Meyer: Your grandpappy, probably said... Man, Superstore was a good show.[00:17:43] Katie Dooley: It was a good show. Better than better than Seventh Heaven.[00:17:45] Preston Meyer: Yes. Um, yeah. So for a long time, we talked about these tiered heavens that. Yeah, salvation is universal, but because people suck to different degrees, some of us are going to achieve a better situation.[00:18:04] Or hell yeah.[00:18:05] Preston Meyer: Protestants, especially, like the evangelical movement, mostly believe in the simple dichotomy of black and white, no shades of gray. Everything that's wrong with you is going to be fixed or burn forever in hell. It's hard to say that I see the appeal to that. I don't really like it.[00:18:23] Katie Dooley: I mean.[00:18:24] Preston Meyer: It takes away your identity.[00:18:25] Katie Dooley: Well, and if it's that black and white, then everyone's going to hell because nobody's.[00:18:28] Preston Meyer: And that's absolutely contrary to the mission of Jesus. Oh, well.[00:18:34] Katie Dooley: I guess we'll find out one day.[00:18:36] Preston Meyer: Yeah. I think it's a lot more reasonable to accept this more classical idea of shades of gray. It just makes sense. Um, different types of people organized and divided based on the way they choose to live their lives would merit different levels of heaven, I think is really a really clean way of explaining it. There was a lady I used to visit for a while when I lived in New Jersey who hated the idea that God would separate people based on any judgment at all. It makes a lot more sense that we would separate ourselves, right? If you like stealing but hate violence, there's a community for you where you're safe from the violent. But the people who don't like being robbed are safe from you.[00:19:32] Katie Dooley: That's good. So you just all rob each other for all time.[00:19:35] Preston Meyer: Yeah,[00:19:37] Katie Dooley: That's a pretty good punishment.[00:19:38] Preston Meyer: Right?[00:19:39] Katie Dooley: You steal something, then you turn around and your shit's got. Ah.[00:19:41] Preston Meyer: Yeah.[00:19:42] Katie Dooley: So you got to steal more.[00:19:44] Preston Meyer: It feels a lot like the punishment fitting the crime. Yeah.[00:19:49] Katie Dooley: Um, we didn't put in our notes, but I know, I mean, I went to a Catholic funeral recently. We were... I don't know if you want to touch on that.[00:19:57] Preston Meyer: Sure, yeah. What is it that you experienced that you want to share?[00:20:00] Katie Dooley: I mean i've been told 2 or 3 Catholic funerals, now? Obviously, this one, most recently Catholic funerals are long because they do a full mass. I will say the thing about Catholic funeral, there's a lot of talk about God and not nearly as much about the person.[00:20:18] Preston Meyer: Sure. Now, is this a mass in addition to the daily mass, or is it just a not just a funeral attached to the daily mass?[00:20:27] Katie Dooley: No, they do... My understanding is they do a separate funeral mass.[00:20:31] Preston Meyer: I mean, nobody's accusing the Catholics of being efficient.[00:20:35] Katie Dooley: No, because it also took a long time. And then of course, I was like looking for the reliquary, because now we know from our lovely guest, Frank McMahon, confirmed that there is a holy relic in every Catholic church. So I'm looking for bits of saints.[00:20:49] Preston Meyer: Well, at the bare minimum, they'll have one locked away in the tabernacle, right? And you wouldn't get to see that. But yeah, if there's more about on on display.[00:20:59] Katie Dooley: There was something pretty fancy in a corner. And I was like, I don't know what that is. Okay, I didn't get close enough because I left the front for the family, but, uh.[00:21:07] Preston Meyer: No, no, you got to push your way through during a funeral.[00:21:10] Katie Dooley: During it. I need a front row seat, please, because I just need a front row seat. Um, but that's the biggest thing. Like. I mean, the last funeral I went to was as secular as a funeral gets. And they talk a lot about the person that passed. Um, so it's just. Different. But yeah, you know, everyone, priests especially very hopeful that she's in a better place. And we're the ones who are the losers an I don't know, I mean, you know, I don't believe any of that. I was like, is she. I mean, it's nice to think, but. Why are there no bear ghosts?[00:21:54] Preston Meyer: Because they don't have unfinished business. They got their honey. They're happy.[00:22:01] Katie Dooley: But. Right. If there's no bear heaven and bear hell, why is there human heaven? Human hell? Why are there no bear ghosts? That's my thesis.[00:22:14] Preston Meyer: I have a hypothesis. That bear heaven is fish hell. It's a very efficient system, and it's good enough that they don't need to linger here on Earth.[00:22:29] Katie Dooley: I've heard that, uh, squirrel hell is dog heaven.[00:22:32] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Perfect. So Christianity does inherit a lot from Jewish thought. It makes sense. Dispensationalism has got some tricky bits to it, but the inheritance system is inarguable. And that includes the matter of ghosts and the idea of possessing spirits I already mentioned shows up with the New Testament, but Greco-Roman thought shows a lot of its influence in the way that we see demons described in the Christian tradition that almost every ghost that you see described in the New Testament, apart from when they think that maybe Jesus is a ghost until he says, touch me and find out. [00:23:17] Katie Dooley: Pull my finger. Preston just wiggled his finger at me, so... "Pull my finger." - Jesus, Matthew 22:34.[00:23:26] Preston Meyer: Yeah, all the the ghosts are, well, terrible demons possessing people or making everybody have a bad time. Jehovah's Witnesses and Christadelphians outright deny the possibility of ghosts, which is really frustrating for them when you point out the holes in that logic. But. Oh, well they just stopped visiting.[00:23:52] Katie Dooley: As much as I, uh, you know, try to be fair to... They're the least Christian of the Christians.[00:23:59] Preston Meyer: I mean, it's so hard to delineate what what is Christian and what isn't.[00:24:03] Katie Dooley: I know, but that's was my point. I was trying to poorly word, but yeah, but they're at least Christian. [00:24:12] Preston Meyer: I can't argue with that in this moment.[00:24:15] Katie Dooley: My next thesis.[00:24:18] Preston Meyer: Um, Seventh-day Adventist got a lot of those in my family. They teach that any ghost you might encounter is absolutely, certainly a demon in disguise.[00:24:28] Katie Dooley: Cool.[00:24:29] Preston Meyer: Sure. Not that I'm encountering a whole lot of ghosts.[00:24:34] Katie Dooley: No, but I just, like. I'm imagining a ghost pulling off its ghost mask, like in Scooby Doo and be like there's a demon under here.[00:24:43] Preston Meyer: I like that imagery.[00:24:44] Katie Dooley: Thank you.[00:24:45] Preston Meyer: But generally everybody agrees they can basically shapeshift.[00:24:48] Katie Dooley: Oh, oh that makes a lot more sense, but it's way less cool.[00:24:54] Preston Meyer: Right? Most other Christians admit the possibility of the disguise problem, but acknowledge that a ghost could genuinely be the dead person you're after. The ghost that we see in the Witch of Endor story. It's not really answered in a really concrete way. Whether or not this should be expected to be a demon in disguise or the dead prophet returned. Because that wasn't the important part of the story. The important part of the story was stop getting witches to summon demons. Many Christians believe that the dead can take on the role of angel.[00:25:34] Katie Dooley: Which is where, as we're writing these notes, I was like, we need to separate heaven and hell. And even we talked about angels. And I was like, but dead people become angels.[00:25:43] Preston Meyer: Right.[00:25:43] Katie Dooley: One so yeah, there's like a whole other piece to this.[00:25:47] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Um, the Revelation talks about how there's like a third of the host of Heaven fell with Lucifer, as most people prefer to call him.[00:25:57] Katie Dooley: Satan is accurate.[00:25:59] Preston Meyer:  [00:25:59]Satan is a far more helpful thing here. And so those generally [00:26:03] get to be the ones that we call demons within Christian theology models. But there are also talks of, well, if you're just a bad person, you can become a demon that way too. It's exciting. It gives you something to aspire to if you don't want to change your ways. Lots of goodies.[00:26:23] Katie Dooley: Cool. The last of the Abrahamic religions, of course, is Islam. And I mean last chronologically[00:26:23] Preston Meyer: Of course and the last one we're talking about. [00:26:33] Katie Dooley: And the last one we're talking about today.[00:26:34] Preston Meyer: Because we usually stick. [00:26:36] Katie Dooley: Last but not least. Very similar, obviously, it's been influenced by Judaism and Christianity. When death is imminent, a family member or close friend is present to say the shahada, which is the, uh,[00:26:49] Preston Meyer: There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his prophet.[00:26:53] Katie Dooley: Yes. Uh, there's a word for it. Something of faith.[00:26:57] Preston Meyer: Uh, statement of faith. Statement.[00:26:58] Katie Dooley: Declaration. Declaration. Thank you. Declaration of faith. We talked about this in our Islam so years ago. But the shahada is also recited when you're born. So it's this. If you're born a Muslim, it's kind of a nice full-circle moment.[00:27:12] Preston Meyer: It's a very convenient conversion tool. All you got to do is shout that in somebody's ear and bam.[00:27:18] Katie Dooley: You actually shout it?[00:27:20] Preston Meyer: I mean, some people like like the video of the guy who doing like a really awful baptism of a baby with dunk, dunk dunk dunk dunk.[00:27:28] Katie Dooley: Baby gets shaken baby.[00:27:29] Preston Meyer: Yeah. And the parents are just horrified. There are people who shout at the children. But that's not likely the typical format.[00:27:39] Katie Dooley: All right. Again with like with the other Abrahamic faiths and more strictly Muslims do not cremate their dead. Some Jews do. I'd say half of Christians do, and no Muslims do. They do not cremate their dead because they believe in the physical resurrection that will happen. And autopsies are also forbidden. Unnecessary autopsies, obviously. I presume in the case of murder they would do an autopsy. But if someone dies in their home, they don't do autopsies[00:28:11] Preston Meyer: Right. There's I mean, there are places where autopsies just aren't happening. But here in North America, yeah, if something bad happens, it's going to happen. And you can put on your frowny face all you want. It's still going to happen. You just muscle through it.[00:28:30] Katie Dooley: Uh, but organ donation is okay because it helps people.[00:28:33] Preston Meyer: So I'm really glad that exception exists. It feels weird.[00:28:39] Katie Dooley: It feels contradictory.[00:28:40] Preston Meyer: Yeah. But I appreciate that exception exists because it helps people.[00:28:45] Katie Dooley: Yeah. I mean, you know, someone's dead and you don't care why they died. What is the point of an autopsy? Right. If they're 80 something years old.[00:28:56] Preston Meyer: Yeah.[00:28:57] Katie Dooley: And they died at home in their bed or in a hospital in the bed.[00:29:00] Preston Meyer: There's gonna come a time 100 years from now, and our podcast will still be available on podcast libraries. And somebody's going to hear that it was normal for us to die at 80 and go. What the hell was wrong with these people?[00:29:16] Katie Dooley: You think our life expectancy is going to get that?[00:29:18] Preston Meyer: I think our life expectancy can reasonably be expected to be extended by decades. I got high hopes. We'll see.[00:29:28] Katie Dooley: Uh, bodies are originally washed and wrapped in a white sheet before burial. And they are washed three times by a family member of the same gender as the deceased. Sharia law dictates that funeral planning start immediately after the death, and bodies are buried quickly. There are no viewings, so no wakes. You did not stay up all night drinking with your dead grandma. Have you seen Derry Girls?[00:29:55] Preston Meyer: I've seen a little bit of Derry Girls, but I definitely have not seen whatever has come to your mind.[00:30:00] Katie Dooley: There's an episode and they're at someone's wake. And my favorite character, Sister Michael, she's a curmudgeonly nun. Who I don't even know if she has that much faith. And there's one part. She's at this wake and she's talking to a family member. The family member is very annoying. She's like, oh my God, is this my wake? Am I dead? Am I in hell?[00:30:23] Preston Meyer: I love it.[00:30:26] Katie Dooley: Sister Michael, I'll show it to you after I love her. I watched through the whole series, and it's filled with charming teens. I was like, no, that grumpy old lady. That's my favorite.[00:30:38] Preston Meyer: That sounds right. So, if you were wondering. Yes, Muslims believe in ghosts. Uh, the spirits of the dead are supposed to go on to an underworld called Barzakh.[00:30:51] Katie Dooley: Oh, that's a good name.[00:30:52] Preston Meyer: Yeah, I like the name. Be honest, I did not look up what the name means. I'm sure it's got meaning, but I'll look it up later. Improper burial can impede the journey to this underworld.[00:31:03] Katie Dooley: Oh, that's why they're so regimented in it, okay.[00:31:06] Preston Meyer: Because you don't want to risk screwing this up, and then you've got a ghost wandering around because, I mean, if you ever notice ghosts, it's not because they're doing nice things for you. Nobody's emptying your dishwasher. It's not happening.[00:31:19] Katie Dooley: Oh, you seen that webcomic of this little ghost? And he's like, I love home decorating. And he's, like, moving around frames and vases, and the family's like, ah, but he's just this cute little ghost. It's like, I love this work. It makes me way too happy, but also sad.[00:31:34] Preston Meyer: I love it. Yeah, that's great. Um, so the shades of righteous spirits are expected to linger at their own graves, which feels a little bit weird. I had to dig at this. There's like, the soul goes on to the underworld and awaits resurrection. But a shade, a shadow of that soul lingers at the grave so that people can come and talk to it and get whatever great mystic knowledge is reserved for, not the living. But apparently the shades are willing to share it sometime.[00:32:16] Katie Dooley: It feels like a pretty common practice of like.[00:32:18] Preston Meyer: Yeah.[00:32:19] Katie Dooley: Visiting grave to talk to a loved one.[00:32:21] Preston Meyer: I would say it's pretty close to universal that you would go to wherever you buried your loved ones to talk to them, hoping to get some sort of answer.[00:32:32] Katie Dooley: But they believe that they actually stay there. That's cool.[00:32:36] Preston Meyer: Yeah, it's kind of nifty.[00:32:38] Katie Dooley: Yeah. All right. Heading to the East air quotes.[00:32:44] Preston Meyer: Vaguely eastward from where we were.[00:32:46] Katie Dooley: Or where we're heading to the Dharmic religions is actually a better title. Hinduism.[00:32:52] Preston Meyer: Yeah.[00:32:54] Katie Dooley: So when death is near, it is common to obtain water for purification from the Ganges River, which is considered sacred.[00:33:02] Preston Meyer: Remember we talked about how the Hindu people are the river folks.[00:33:05] Katie Dooley: The river folk is the part to be surrounded by loved ones at the time of your death. If the body is left alone, uh, light, ideally, a candle should be left near the body as close to the head as can be done safely so.[00:33:19] Preston Meyer: Yeah. You don't want them catching on fire.[00:33:20] Katie Dooley: No. Uh, to comfort the lingering spirit. Generally for Hindus, families are encouraged to remain conservative in their mourning, allowing the soul to move on quickly to its next stage. The soul is said to linger as long as people hold it with their thoughts. So mourners are encouraged to focus on happy thoughts and memories. I like that.[00:33:41] Preston Meyer: Right? So it's okay to mourn, but not too long and not too negatively. Which is good. Remember the good times.[00:33:51] Katie Dooley: Families typically prefer to bury the body within a day. Any work the coroner might need to do is a major inconvenience.[00:33:58] Preston Meyer: I mean, that's true, generally.[00:34:02] Katie Dooley: All organs need to be returned to their place before burial. So no organ donation here.[00:34:07] Preston Meyer: Yeah, I'm there's definitely going to be exceptions to that. Some people are a lot more liberal than but the the general religious expectation is leave it be.[00:34:20] Katie Dooley: The soul is believed to carry on to its next incarnation, whether as an angel, a human or an animal. Or better yet, escape the cycle of samsara and recombine with Brahma, the source of all creation, potentially to be recycled into creation. But that would be as a nearly totally new soul.[00:34:40] Preston Meyer: Yeah, the this cycle of samsara is. A really interesting thing to study so much potential or just go back and recombine with God. And maybe he'll use you again.[00:34:54] Katie Dooley: Maybe he'll use you for something else. You've done it. But now you're a rock. Because he needed a rock right here. Yeah, ad if you'll recall, the you come back based on how good you are. Good you were your karma in your past lives. So if you're doing good, you'll come back as something better. You're not doing so good. You're heading back to that rock.[00:35:18] Preston Meyer: Yeah. And that's historically that was like the way to move between casts was just.[00:35:26] Katie Dooley: Being reborn.[00:35:27] Preston Meyer: Yeah. And now we've seen in some places some movement between castees is more possible than in other places.[00:35:37] Katie Dooley: I mean, this generaetion, I think, is caring less about caste than ever before. And I'm sure in the next 20, 30, 40 years, it'll...[00:35:47] Preston Meyer: Get a little bit better every generation. Yeah, one can hope anyway.[00:35:52] Katie Dooley: Tell me about the Ghost, though.[00:35:53] Preston Meyer: Oh, man. So there's some there's some baggage here with Hindu ghosts. You're supposed to move on to the next life.[00:36:01] Katie Dooley: So if you don't, you're downgrading.[00:36:05] Preston Meyer: Right? You're supposed to get a new body.[00:36:07] Katie Dooley: So a ghost is like a variant of Loki. You've come out of the timeline.[00:36:14] Preston Meyer: A little bit.[00:36:15] Katie Dooley: Interesting.[00:36:16] Preston Meyer: I mean, to the point where you've got folks like the TVA saying, no, you need to get back in line. Yeah, that's a little that is a fair enough analogy of what we're looking at. Okay. It's not perfect.[00:36:29] Katie Dooley: But you're right because you're either supposed to come back better or come back worse. So if you're not coming back at all and you're not escaping samsara, there's a problem. Okay. I can't wait to hear this.[00:36:40] Preston Meyer: So go start a very serious matter. Reincarnation is the normal path. Something is keeping spirits from passing on to the next phase, which could theoretically be nirvana. But if you're in this situation where you're lingering here, maybe that next step isn't Nirvana. So there's a good list of things that might prevent a spirit from moving on, and thus lingering is a noticeable and likely malevolent spirit. We've got improper burial. So a lot of religions worry about burying people properly to prevent ghost problems. Uh, we've got violent death. Loads of fun there. Unfinished business. I mean, that's bad karma. Most of these are bad karma type things. Sometimes it's not your karma, but other people's karma on you. But if you've got unfinished business, that's your own karma. And the worst of all of these, the one that had some serious baggage that I thought was really interesting is if a woman dies in childbirth or at the abuse of her in-laws, then she is said to return as a churel or chudel or whatever. 400 different ways are pronouncing that based on the various languages of the region. A malevolent and destructive spirit is what a churel is, and they are focused on the destruction of the family that wronged her. Yeah, it's apparently very dramatic, caused a lot of problems, and they've got ghost hunters to deal with that.[00:38:15] Katie Dooley: Yeah, I was going to say that sounds like the plot of a good Bollywood movie.[00:38:20] Preston Meyer: There's got to be one, right? The odds are good.[00:38:23] Katie Dooley: The odds are... I might have to do some digging. Yeah. Cool. Buddhism.[00:38:30] Preston Meyer: So I remember showing you a video a little while ago that looked super suspicious.[00:38:35] Katie Dooley: I remember when I saw this, I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Um, so Buddhism sort of overarching, very similar to Hinduism, trying to escape the cycle of life and death. But there's some nuances and some practices within Buddhism that are neat slash kinda gross.[00:38:52] Preston Meyer: Yeah, they're care for the dead is completely incompatible with what we see in the Hindu tradition.[00:38:58] Katie Dooley: I'm tempted to put a trigger warning on this part of the episode. I found it a bit gross. Sure, mostly the sokushinbutsu.[00:39:06] Preston Meyer: You've been warned. Skip ahead five minutes if you don't want to handle this.[00:39:09] Katie Dooley: Yeah, it's just like body horror is a bit strong, but it is a little gross. So we're gonna talk about Tibetan sky burials. Tell me about this video that you showed me.[00:39:18] Preston Meyer: So there was this person in a little corral full of vultures because they don't always just fly around waiting for stuff. Sometimes they know where the good stuff is, and sometimes they're part of a farm. And this person was just chopping up a human skeleton up. It was a pretty clean skeleton. Somebody had already taken care of business.[00:39:39] Katie Dooley: And it was very clear from the rib cage that it was a human skeleton.[00:39:43] Preston Meyer: It was very obviously human.[00:39:45] Katie Dooley: So this was a Tibetan sky burial. Sky burial. I don't know if it was in Tibet, but that's where it comes from. The term sky burial is a Western term. The actual practice, the translation translates to giving alms to the birds, which I kind of love.[00:40:00] Preston Meyer: It's for the birds.[00:40:02] Katie Dooley: This is a practice where the corpse is placed on a mountain to decompose through exposure to the elements and animal scavenging. Obviously, in the case Preston's talking about, for whatever reason, they need to speed it up. Or.[00:40:14] Preston Meyer: I mean, this could have been taking care of the skeleton after the scavenging. Yeah.[00:40:20] Katie Dooley: So Vajrayana Buddhists believe that the body is an empty vessel once the spirit has left. So none of this physical resurrection and therefore there's no reason to keep it. The person's got a new body somewhere else. They died. They've resurrected. They're not sorry, reincarnated somewhere else.[00:40:40] Preston Meyer: Yeah, Buddhists just generally aren't terribly worried about the corpse. And that's nice. I can appreciate that. Just don't worry about it.[00:40:49] Katie Dooley: Another Buddhist practice that mildly traumatized me. And it has a I feel like a deeper theological discussion we could talk about is Sokushinbutsu is the practice of self-mummification.[00:41:06] Preston Meyer: So gross.[00:41:06] Katie Dooley: Japanese. It started by Japanese Buddhist monks. Um, it's an ascetic practice. Acetic, ascetic? I always say it wrong.[00:41:14] Preston Meyer: Acetic is a kind of acid.[00:41:17] Katie Dooley: It's an ascetic practice that takes about 3000 days. That's what, eight years, roughly.[00:41:22] Preston Meyer: Sure.[00:41:23] Katie Dooley: To complete. And it involves essentially eating a tree. Monks would eat pine needles, resin and seeds found in these trees, and the process eventually eliminates all body fat.[00:41:38] Preston Meyer: So you've you've had Buckley's tastes awful, but it works.[00:41:42] Katie Dooley: Yeah, that's part of the tree.[00:41:43] Preston Meyer: Yeah. So the reason that it tastes awful and works is because pine needle oil is mildly toxic. That's why grass doesn't grow right up to the base of the tree. Why would you want to eat pine needles? Unless, of course, this is your plan.[00:41:59] Katie Dooley: Well. And yes. And this is I'll finish explaining it. But this like this idea and I guess it's like self-flagellation of, like, what is so important that you're willing to do this. And as an atheist I'm like, mm, nothing. Anyway, we'll we'll come back to that. Continue explaining this horrific process. So eating the tree eliminates all body fat. It does result in the starvation that it leaves the body well preserved, and they found corpses with skin, hair, teeth, nails in the forest, which is wild, and obviously probably because you're right of the biotoxins animals don't touch them right, and the skin doesn't rot away. So I don't know who figured this out. I don't know why anyone wanted to figure this out, but.[00:42:44] Preston Meyer: Right. There's there's so much that we do that like knowing it. Sure. We can keep going. How did we first find out? Like cheese. The milk went so bad and then all of a sudden was fine again.[00:43:03] Katie Dooley: There's a lot of things in life. I'm like, how did we figure this out? This is one I don't think we needed to figure out but... So the practice has been banned since the late 1800s in Japan. But and there's pictures of this if you do like this kind of stuff. The Buddhist monk Luang Pho Daeng died in 1973. He was a Thai monk from Thailand after practicing sokushinbutsu, and his body is actually on display and they just die while meditating. So he's sitting there cross-legged and they put sunglasses on them because apparently his eye sockets are pretty horrific. But, uh, I mean, it's an interesting example of... They didn't do anything to him. He's just he's behind glass now.[00:43:47] Preston Meyer: But I would hope so because people, you know, people are going to be touching. Right.[00:43:53] Katie Dooley: Yeah. But he's they didn't do any other sort of embalming to him besides...[00:43:58] Preston Meyer: What he did himself, what he...[00:43:59] Katie Dooley: Did to himself. So anyway, um, yeah, it's an interesting like but I guess we even have cases like 9/11. What do you believe in so much that you're willing to die for it? Something that takes 3000 days of some commitment[00:43:59] Preston Meyer: Right? I mean, there's a lot of things I like to eat that would slow this process down.[00:44:20] Katie Dooley: I don't I don't think you're supposed to eat other things.[00:44:23] Preston Meyer: I know it's a major commitment.[00:44:25] Katie Dooley: You'd be like, you'd eat like pine needles and then be like, oh, but a burger sounds great.[00:44:29] Preston Meyer: Right?[00:44:32] Katie Dooley: Um, yeah. And the the Luang Pho Daeng, he had six kids and a wife, and he left to become a Buddhist monk. And then he decided.[00:44:41] Preston Meyer: He would end it all the slowest way possible.[00:44:43] Katie Dooley: The slowest way possible. And I just, I, I don't know, I just I can't wrap my head around it, but I guess it's.[00:44:50] Preston Meyer: Not for me.[00:44:51] Katie Dooley: I guess. But John Paul II flogged himself and people flew into the Twin Towers and Luang Pho Dang starved himself to death. I don't, I guess. Maybe I'm just too apathetic, Preston.[00:45:05] Preston Meyer: Maybe, I don't know.[00:45:08] Katie Dooley: Maybe I just like life too much.[00:45:10] Preston Meyer: There's a lot to like about life.[00:45:12] Katie Dooley: I think so, but.[00:45:14] Preston Meyer: All right. Well, believe it or not, Buddhists believe in ghosts, too.[00:45:19] Katie Dooley: What? I'm seeing a theme. This might be the only universal belief in the entire world. I don't believe in ghosts, though, so.[00:45:26] Preston Meyer: Well, we've already pointed out a couple of groups that deny the universality of the belief. Jehovah's Witnesses and Christadelphians.[00:45:34] Katie Dooley: But I do know atheists that believe in ghosts, which is funny to me.[00:45:37] Preston Meyer: Right? You can believe in ghosts without believing in God.[00:45:39] Katie Dooley: No, but I just.[00:45:41] Preston Meyer: No. I think if you do believe in ghosts, it's easy to talk somebody into believing that there's more. And then bam, you get into the mysterious agnostic belief in some sort of god.[00:45:56] Katie Dooley: Or some sort of something.[00:45:58] Preston Meyer: Well, even even if the universe is God, you still got all God.[00:46:01] Katie Dooley: Yeah. Anyway, I was so excited to find a universal belief, its not even universal that puppies are adorable.[00:46:09] Preston Meyer: Right? Puppies are haram.[00:46:12] Katie Dooley: Are haram. Anyway.[00:46:14] Preston Meyer: All right, so many Buddhists celebrate a ghost festival. Where they offer food to ghosts who might linger. This is an expression of compassion mostly, which is one of the greatest virtues of Buddhism. And in return, the ghosts do not bother the community, which seems to usually work, or, depending on your measure of things, maybe always works.[00:46:39] Katie Dooley: Because they don't exist.[00:46:41] Preston Meyer: Right? Um, ghosts might also move onto a realm specifically for hungry ghosts, where there are no offerings and everybody is just hungry all the time.[00:46:57] Katie Dooley: That sounds scary.[00:46:58] Preston Meyer: That sounds like hell. I feel like this is a really nice way of saying they're in hell.[00:47:04] Katie Dooley: Yeah, I don't want to be hungry.[00:47:06] Preston Meyer: Yeah. That sucks. In the Tibetan tradition. A bothersome ghost can be captured with a special trap and extra killed with a ritual dagger, sending it to be reborn again.[00:47:20] Katie Dooley: My, do you know what that reminds me of? When people say he was killed to death, I'm like, uh huh, uh huh. Yep.[00:47:27] Preston Meyer: Redundant. [00:47:28] Preston Meyer: Murder-Death-Killed.[00:47:29] Katie Dooley: Murdered. Death killed. He was murdered to death.[00:47:33] Preston Meyer: But if a ghost is sticking around, that's. Yeah, there is a procedure in place to kill the ghost so that it is not an operating ghost any further.[00:47:44] Katie Dooley: I was going to say that's the only context in which I will accept killed to death is when you're killing a ghost.[00:47:51] Preston Meyer: Yeah, it's. It doesn't fit in the frame that we have for ghosts here. It's different than exorcism, which is kind of what we would talk about, about getting rid of a ghost. But there there are some, some commonalities. There is one particular ghost that I think is rather interesting. And the Dalai Lama agrees. Maybe not for the same reason. Dorjee Shugden is a powerful 17th century monk, I say is because that's what some people believe. In Tibet, he's revered by some who claim that his lingering ghost is a god. Most Buddhists don't really mess with arguments about theology. Don't worry about God's worry about your own path through samsara.[00:48:40] Katie Dooley: This one is hot topic.[00:48:42] Preston Meyer: Yeah, because a lot of people believe that Shugden is a God that is, like worthy of worship and like focus on him a fair bit. And other people, not so much. Of course, the Dalai Lama is not a fan at all. He says that Shugden is an evil spirit. And yeah, this division is causing a lot of contention in Tibet.[00:49:06] Katie Dooley: Sikhs, Sikhism, like Buddhists and Hindus, believe in reincarnation, which is interesting because it's also a monotheistic religion. Remember, it's the baby of Hinduism and Islam.[00:49:18] Preston Meyer: Hindu's a little bit monotheistic. That's true. Depending on your interpretation of all of the things and expressions of God.[00:49:26] Katie Dooley: Um, so Sikhs believe in reincarnation that comes from the Hinduism side and to eventually escape the cycle and become one with God, but only one God. I guess, as you pointed out, Brahma.[00:49:39] Preston Meyer: Right, one, three, 700 million, whatever.[00:49:43] Katie Dooley: It's fine. Cremation is the preferred and traditionally accepted method to deal with the deceased in Sikhism. This is the first time we've seen that. [00:49:54] Preston Meyer: It's like a system built around being wise in a very densely populated part of the world. Thought of a solution to one of a few problems.[00:50:06] Katie Dooley: Family members are expected to witness the cremation process, which I thought was interesting. I don't think that's very typical here.[00:50:12] Preston Meyer: I don't know if we make it very convenient to witness a cremation here.[00:50:16] Katie Dooley: I think you can if you ask, but I don't think it's typicalbecause when we put down Paige, if you've heard our little jingles on the podcast, there's no more jingles anymore. It was an option to watch her be cremated. And I was like, no, I'm good. But I haven't had a human in my life cremated recently, so I don't know.[00:50:35] Preston Meyer: Fingers crossed that it doesn't happen.[00:50:37] Katie Dooley: I'm gonna do that.[00:50:38] Preston Meyer: And if you're curious why people cross their fingers or knock on wood, we did an episode on that a little while ago.[00:50:45] Katie Dooley: Ashes are scattered into a river. They believe that the body should be returned to the earth, and that the family left behind doesn't carry this attachment to the body. In instances where Sikhs may choose burial, headstones are not allowed because the body is just that shell that we've seen in the other Dharmic religions. There should be no attachment to the body. A Sikh funeral is antam sanskar. Antam Sanskar which translates to final ceremony. TThe deceased Sikh is dressed in their five Sikh articles of faith before the funeral and cremation. So that's the Kesh, Kanga, Katcha, Khara and kirpan. If you want to know what those are.[00:51:31] Preston Meyer: Check out.[00:51:32] Katie Dooley: Our episode. One of those is a little knife. Yeah, that's the kirpan. After a funeral service, family and friends gather to read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Which is the final guru and the holy book.[00:51:46] Preston Meyer: So as an heir to both Hindu and Muslim philosophies, the ideas of ghosts live in both realms. To some extent, we do have the worry of the ghosts of the abused, that maybe they'll come back and cause some problems, and it's kind of hard to work that out of the faith when it's still living in at least the more secular portion of the Hindu reality. Yeah. Nothing terribly new and exciting there.[00:52:13] Katie Dooley: Now we have some outliers, some that attach directly to religion. Some are just cultural practices around death. Now that we all know what Zoroastrianism is. They are actually doing something very similar to the sky funerals, they have a tower of silence.[00:52:27] Preston Meyer: That sounds really cool.[00:52:29] Katie Dooley: It does. They put their dead on this tower raised platform for scavengers and the elements to aid in decomposition. It is a circular ray structure used just for this purpose. This keeps corpses which are considered to be unclean, away from the sacred elements of fire, earth and water.[00:52:53] Preston Meyer: Up in the air.[00:52:55] Katie Dooley: Well, there's not much you can do about that. I figured it this way. Right. You either has to be Earth. Well, I guess any of them. One of them has to be tainted, though, to get rid of the body. So they've opted for air and give it to the animals. I didn't read the full article because it was behind a paywall, which I hate, but, uh, there's no Towers of Silence in in the West. So that has led Zoroastrians to have to compromise on their last funeral rites and traditions, which is kind of sad. I mean, right, and this is where.[00:53:28] Preston Meyer: Fire is such a big thing, there's always these these fire temples for Zoroastrianism. And part of me wants to say, well, just build a separate fire for cremation, but that is still putting an unclean thing in sacred fire.[00:53:44] Katie Dooley: But and this is where, you know, I said at the top of the episode, some things make a lot of sense, like getting rid of a body in a very both economical and ecological way makes a ton of sense, and I don't think it gets more sanitary than a tower of silence. Whatever, you could argue a sky burial mound could get into the water system or whatever. But yeah, you're right. The West is so uptight about. [00:54:14] Preston Meyer: Dead bodies.[00:54:15] Katie Dooley: Dead bodies, so do I think. You know, eating a tree to die makes a lot of sense. No. Do I think, uh, sky burial does? Yeah.[00:54:24] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Fair.[00:54:25] Katie Dooley: And so it made me sad for them. Like, imagine not being able to have a funeral the way you won't have a funeral for a loved one.[00:54:32] Preston Meyer: There's. There's got to be a way that we can work around existing systems to make that work out.[00:54:39] Katie Dooley: I don't know, I feel like you. Well, no, because there'd still be laws. But the solution is buying private land, right? But you still have to circumvent laws with dead bodies. And I don't know what laws.[00:54:49] Preston Meyer: Cops aren't allowed on our property.[00:54:51] Katie Dooley: Yeah, um.[00:54:52] Preston Meyer: What's the tower for? None of your business. It's a religious structure.[00:54:55] Katie Dooley: You can't see what's on top of it. Of course we have, of course, drones and airplanes and all sorts of things. People know there's dead.[00:55:01] Preston Meyer: There's. Yeah. New project. I'm going to design a structure that isn't super friendly to drones, where you could have a tower of silence.[00:55:13] Katie Dooley: Okay.[00:55:16] Preston Meyer: This would be a thing that will happen a lot more easily if I knew people who were Zoroastrians.[00:55:24] Katie Dooley: Well, if you know a Zoroastrian... If you know Zoroastrian, put them in touch with us. I would just love to interview them and, uh, Preston can talk about his scheme with them.[00:55:37] Preston Meyer: Yep. All right. New Orleans jazz funeral is a fun little extra thing to talk about. Yeah. So, Louisiana. I've never been. Have you been to Louisiana?[00:55:50] Katie Dooley: No. It's actually quite high on my list of places in the States to go. Um, I would really like to go to New Orleans.[00:55:56] Preston Meyer: Yeah, it's from from what I've seen on TV and movies. A great collection of people. That's about what I got for my own knowledge. But luckily we do reading.[00:56:09] Katie Dooley: Yeah. And I mean, I this is nice because we have talked about Voodoo and a little bit of Hoodoo in the past.[00:56:15] Preston Meyer: Yeah. So there's strong colonial past there. Connects to Europe, Africa and the Caribbean. There is a great tradition of military style brass bands at these funeral processions. You can you can find videos on YouTube. They're great. Mix that with African spiritual practices, Catholic influences. And you know, this being the birthplace of jazz, New Orleans has a pretty unique funerary tradition. Lots of dancing. I've seen more than one casket drop.[00:56:48] Katie Dooley: I mean, that person doesn't care anymore.[00:56:52] Preston Meyer: And everybody's having a good time. You're like, for sure there are going to be a couple living people who are a little uncomfortable with dropping a casket, but that's not a thing that has to be remembered. Yeah. They really incorporate celebration into the mourning. Yeah. You lost somebody you love, but you get to celebrate the time you did enjoy with them and celebrate the fact that you've been brought together with your community and family.[00:57:17] Katie Dooley: You know, I'm just going to touch on this right now because I'm thinking of it. Our good friend Sarah Snyder, our very first ever guest on the podcast, she shared a I guess it's a meme that's not a funny one the other day. And she said, things that are said at funerals should be set at birthdays. And I thought, I'm going to start doing that. I'm going to write long loving cards to my friends now. So I like it. It doesn't all get left to the last minute.[00:57:41] Preston Meyer: Yeah.[00:57:42] Katie Dooley: Ghanaian fantasy coffins. So interesting. We'll post some pictures on the day this launches on our Discord. These are works of art used by the Ga people of Southern Ghana. They believe that our lives continue into the next world the same as they did on Earth. So the coffins represent the deceased by using different symbols. Fantasy coffins are shaped and painted. You can get them in ships, mermaids, chickens, shoes and so much more. And yeah, often they use it to represent what your job was in life. So pilots will be buried in planes and.[00:58:20] Preston Meyer: So I can get I wrap my head around a lot of careers that would get you buried in something that's shaped like a ship. What do I do I have to do to get buried inside a mermaid?[00:58:32] Katie Dooley: I would also say ship related work. Ocean navigating. You can also be a professional mermaid now.[00:58:41] Preston Meyer: Okay, fair.[00:58:43] Katie Dooley: I don't know how popular that is in Ghana I feel like it's a real white person thing.[00:58:46] Preston Meyer: Famadihana is the traditional Madagascar ceremony of the Malagasy people, of turning of the bones. It's basically just a way to continually remember the deceased. Bodies of ancestors are removed from their resting place, rewrapped and their names written on the shroud to be remembered. That's kind of nice. A little gross.[00:59:11] Katie Dooley: Yeah, I was gonna say I want to be the person. There's like a there's a point where is horrible. And then once they're just bones, it's fine. But there's like the first couple of years where they're still icky. I wouldn't want to be that person.[00:59:24] Preston Meyer: But yeah, when it's sticky, it's a bad time. Yeah.[00:59:27] Katie Dooley: But once they're just clean bones, yeah, that's not so bad.[00:59:32] Preston Meyer: And depending on the situation, I mean, it might not even be a long time, right?[00:59:36] Katie Dooley: I don't know how long the body takes to decompose.[00:59:39] Preston Meyer: It varies on region. Right. Well Madagascar is wet.[00:59:42] Katie Dooley: Yeah. And then I mean over here they don't decompose because we put so many fucking toxic shit into them, which.[00:59:47] Preston Meyer: There is that[00:59:49] Katie Dooley: Please don't do that to me. I want to be a mushroom.[00:59:52] Preston Meyer: Okay?[00:59:53] Katie Dooley: Hollow me out and then turn me into mushrooms.[00:59:55] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Okay, so there is more to this process. They don't just wrap them up and then stick them back where they found them. They dance with their skeletons. They have a real party. I'm almost. I'm gonna say Mexican Day of the dead level.[01:00:12] Katie Dooley: Yeah.[01:00:13] Preston Meyer: But there's this practice creeps a lot of people out, and so they're doing it less and less. I don't know if it needs to be stamped out. It doesn't feel like that is necessary, but the Christian missionaries have really put a lot of pressure on them to stop, even though the Catholic Church is okay with it.[01:00:32] Katie Dooley: The Catholic Church has come out to say they're okay with it. So I'm guessing these are Protestant missionaries that are like, maybe we shouldn't dance with bones. Catholic Church has come out and said, no, it's fine. Have fun.[01:00:43] Preston Meyer: I mean, especially this newest pope. He's mostly like, yeah, keep doing your good things. Please don't leave the church.[01:00:52] Katie Dooley: I just heard by the time this episode comes out, this will be really old news, but that he's, like, not approved of gay marriage. But there's steps being taken to... You can't call them marriage, but you can get blessed.[01:01:07] Preston Meyer: Yeah. The Pope did a little while ago announced that he will bless gay unions, which is. It's a step. It is a step.[01:01:24] Katie Dooley: So, anyway, uh, Preston mentioned the day of the dead, and we've talked about it a little bit before. And it is, of course, the subject of video or popular animated films. The day of the Dead is November 2nd, religiously. Secularly. It has extended to more than a single day, and the festival is much more fun. The ghosts aren't likely offended, right?[01:01:47] Preston Meyer: It's just loads of rum. Loads and loads and loads of rum.[01:01:50] Katie Dooley: For that part of the world.[01:01:51] Preston Meyer: Bright colors and parades. All right, so I did a bunch of deep diving into near death experiences. Um, so research into this field of near-death experiences is relatively new. We haven't been talking about it for even 200 years quite yet, really. And so it started when people started regularly falling from heights great enough to have time to contemplate their lives. So fairly recent history. And so when we started reviving people from clinical deaths, then we started getting a lot more people giving reports on their near-death experiences, experiencing the sorts o

The Holy Symeon was bishop of the royal cities of Seleucia and Ctesiphon in Persia, during a great persecution under King Sapor II. The king had been incited by (Zoroastrian) Magi jealous of the growth of the Faith in their territory, and by some Jews living in Persia. The king was already displeased with the holy bishop: his eunuch, Ustazan, a secret Christian, had denied Christ, but when reprimanded by Symeon, had confessed the Faith before the King, for which he was executed. On Holy Friday of 343 Symeon, along with at least a hundred other servants of the Church, was sent out to be slain. Symeon exhorted each to be of good courage, and was himself slain last. One year later, again on Holy Friday, the King's eunuch Azat was executed for Christ, along with a great number of the faithful. It is said that more than 1,000 Christians died as martyrs during this persecution.   The Zoroastrians still live in parts of Iran as a small, somewhat persecuted minority under the Islamic government.

The Holy Symeon was bishop of the royal cities of Seleucia and Ctesiphon in Persia, during a great persecution under King Sapor II. The king had been incited by (Zoroastrian) Magi jealous of the growth of the Faith in their territory, and by some Jews living in Persia. The king was already displeased with the holy bishop: his eunuch, Ustazan, a secret Christian, had denied Christ, but when reprimanded by Symeon, had confessed the Faith before the King, for which he was executed. On Holy Friday of 343 Symeon, along with at least a hundred other servants of the Church, was sent out to be slain. Symeon exhorted each to be of good courage, and was himself slain last. One year later, again on Holy Friday, the King's eunuch Azat was executed for Christ, along with a great number of the faithful. It is said that more than 1,000 Christians died as martyrs during this persecution.   The Zoroastrians still live in parts of Iran as a small, somewhat persecuted minority under the Islamic government.

Ever heard of the Bartonian Metaphysical Society? How about the Druze? If you're like most people, you probably haven't. On this episode, we ask: What's it like to be a member of a tiny religion in a world dominated by “Big God”? From the early days of new religious movements to the precarious old age of ancient faiths, join Dave as we explore the unique experiences, joys and challenges of being one of the few rather than one of the many. We'll talk to sociologist Susan Jean Palmer about what religions are like when they're brand new, how they're born, and what it takes for them to grow. And we'll talk to Zoroastrian Studies researcher Nazneen Engineer about the challenges of population decline and the enduring cultural legacy of her faith as its numbers dwindle. Susan Jean Palmer is the author of eleven book-length sociological studies of new religious movements, including Aliens Adored: Rael's New Religion, Moon Sisters, Krishna Mothers, Rajneesh Lovers and Storming Zion: Government Raids on Religious Communities. Find out more about her work here and learn about her research on children raised in minority religions here. Nazneen Engineer was the first Postdoctoral Researcher at the Shapoorji Pallonji Institute of Zoroastrian Studies based at SOAS, University of London. Find out more about her work here, and learn about the survey of Zoroastrians she managed, Gen Z and Beyond: A Survey for Every Generation, here.

Tanya Luhrmann is Albert Ray Lang Professor of Anthropology at Stanford University, with a courtesy appointment in Psychology, and she is an elected member of the American Philosophical Society. Her work focuses on the edge of experience: on voices, visions, the world of the supernatural and the world of psychosis. She has conducted ethnographic work among groups such as evangelic Christians, American Santerians, Zoroastrians in India, magicians in England, and people hearing voices across cultural contexts. Apart from being the author of lots of academic articles and opinion pieces in the New York Times, her award-winning books include ‘Persuasions of the Witch's Craft', ‘Of Two Minds', ‘When God talks Back', and ‘How God Becomes Real'.In this podcast we talk with Tanya about how people make God and Spirits real through various forms of practice and ideas. Tanya shares stories of world- and self-transformation from her fieldwork among magicians in England and evangelic Christians in the United States and unfolds some of the factors influencing such changes. We talk about the world-building effects of prayer, and how faith changes the person of faith. Finally, Tanya describes how cultural theories of mind also have an impact on the manifestation of anomalous, sensory experiences across contexts.The episode is part of Regnfang's series of co-publications of the Anthropology on Air podcast. A podcast created and published in collaboration with the Department of Social Anthropology at the University of Bergen. The podcast was recorded in early December 2023, when Tanya was in Bergen to be a panellist of the annual Holberg Debate. Resources:Academic Profile: https://anthropology.stanford.edu/people/tanya-marie-luhrmannPersonal website: https://www.tanyaluhrmann.com-       When God talks Back: Understanding the American Evangelical Relationship with God (2012)-       Of Two Minds: An anthropologist looks at American Psychiatry (2001)-       Persuasions of the Witch's Craft: Ritual Magic in Contemporary England (1989)-       How God Becomes Real: Kindling the Presence of Invisible Others (2020)-       Special issue: ‘Mind and Spirit: a Comparative Theory' (2020)-       Article mentioned: ‘Sensing the presence of gods and spirits across cultures and faiths' (2021)Host and production: Sidsel MarieMusic: Victor Lange

Detective Anita is at it again with this second installment of her investigative work. What do four-eyed dogs, catacombs, and freeze driers have in common? Check out this weeks episode to find out!Help us keep the Widow We Do Now podcast going!http://www.patreon.com/wwdnWant to buy us some tacos?https://www.buymeacoffee.com/widowwedonowSponsored by:Rock House Financial & the podcast: He's Gone But The Money's Nothttps://rockhousefinancial.com/podcasts/BetterHelp.com. Save 10% off the first month of online therapy done securely, online with our unique link: https://trybetterhelp.com/wwdnMint Mobile: Mobile phone plans with great service and coverage starting at $15/month https://trymintmobile.com/wwdn

pWotD Episode 2513: Nowruz Welcome to popular Wiki of the Day where we read the summary of a popular Wikipedia page every day.With 996,028 views on Tuesday, 19 March 2024 our article of the day is Nowruz.Nowruz (Persian: نوروز [noːˈɾuːz]) is the Iranian or Persian New Year celebrated by various ethnic groups worldwide. It is a festival based on the spring equinox— which marks the first day of the new year in the Iranian Solar Hijri calendar, on or around 21 March on the Gregorian calendar.The day of Nowruz has its origins in the Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism and is thus rooted in the traditions of the Iranian peoples; however, it has been celebrated by diverse communities for over 3,000 years in Western Asia, Central Asia, the Caucasus, the Black Sea Basin, the Balkans, and South Asia. Presently, while it is largely a secular holiday for most celebrants and enjoyed by people of several different faiths and backgrounds, Nowruz remains a holy day for Zoroastrians, Baháʼís, and some Muslim communities. As the spring equinox, Nowruz marks the beginning of spring in the Northern Hemisphere, i.e. the moment at which the Sun crosses the celestial equator and equalizes night and day is calculated exactly every year. Traditional customs of Nowruz include fire and water, ritual dances, gift exchanges, reciting poetry, symbolic objects and more; these customs differ between the diverse peoples and countries that celebrate the festival.This recording reflects the Wikipedia text as of 01:30 UTC on Wednesday, 20 March 2024.For the full current version of the article, see Nowruz on Wikipedia.This podcast uses content from Wikipedia under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License.Visit our archives at wikioftheday.com and subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.Follow us on Mastodon at @wikioftheday@masto.ai.Also check out Curmudgeon's Corner, a current events podcast.Until next time, I'm Kajal Neural.

In this episode, Professor Almut Hintze sheds light on the ancient and mysterious religion of Zoroastrianism. For over two millennia, it was one of the world's most practiced religions until the arrival of Islam in the seventh century led to its rapid decline. Today, just 120,000 adherents remain worldwide. Come with us as we dive into Zoroastrianism: Exploring Avestan, the 'Language of God' still used in prayers today, despite its meaning being long forgotten. Discover the ritual complexity of The Yasna and the lighting of 12 Sacred Flames, each kindled from a different source. We also follow the sad history of modern Zoroastrians, a shrinking minority in their homeland of Iran. Professor Hintze's dedication to preserving and cataloguing ancient rituals and their meanings is a testament to her commitment to preserving this fascinating piece of human history. Join us as we discuss the history, rituals and language of one of the worlds oldest religions Help support the show on Patreon! Sources and Attributions on our website. Professor Hintze's brief introduction to Zoroastrianism A recording of the full, transcribed Yasna ritual Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Abby and Alan dive into the history of demonic summoning, and its impact on horror. Embark with us on a shadowy expedition into the origins and evolutions of demonic summoning, where ancient gods were recast into sinister spirits under the unforgiving light of monotheism. From the Lesser Key of Solomon to the Hermetic Order of The Golden Dawn, we discuss the history of cultures and peoples who have attempted to summon demons.  The notorious Warrens, Pazuzu from "The Exorcist," and even Black Phillip of "The Witch" fame make appearances, showcasing how horror films have shaped our understanding of the infernal. We also chat through the threads of historical rituals from modern horror, examining the authenticity filmmakers strive for when portraying ancient summoning rites.lunaticsproject.comGet Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord. Listen to the paranormal playlist I curate for Vurbl, updated weekly! Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.SourcesBook by Ed Simon called PANDEMONIUM: An Illustrated History of Demonology PBS article by David Crary of the Associated Press: Ancient but small in number, Zoroastrians confront depletion of their faithArcheology.org article by Eric A. Powell, called: The World of Egyptian DemonsThe Rationality of Renaissance Magic by Gregory W. DawesAliester Crowley's autobiography: The Confessions of Aleister CrowleyBook by Owen Davies: Grimoires: A History of MagicVice article The Men Who Love to Worship The Devil and Summon Demons by Grace WilsonBook by Ronald Hutton: The Wild Hunt and The Witches SabbathWikipedia + IMDBSupport the show

He is the Living God Daniel 6:1-28 by William Klock Last Sunday we read those closing words of the fifth chapter of Daniel that tell us Belshazzar, the very night of his feast, was killed and that Darius the Mede received the kingdom.  Daniel 6 picks right up from there.  Let's look at Daniel 6:1-9. It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.”   Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction.  (Daniel 6:1-9) Darius the Mede.  You might remember that last week I said he's a bit of a mysterious character.  I think the author of Daniel does something very deliberate here that would, to the original hearers, have signalled a change in the sort of story being told.  Unless you've studied Ancient Near Eastern history, this won't seem important.  If you have studied Ancient Near Eastern history, when you hear “Darius the Mede” it's going to catch your attention.  It's not right.  Darius wasn't a Mede; he was a Persian.  And he didn't rule before Cyrus; he ruled almost twenty years after these events, after the exile was over, and after Daniel had died.  Jews would have noticed the same thing.  Darius figures heavily in the historical books of Ezra and Nehemiah and the prophetic books of Haggai and Zechariah.  So I think that a Jew hearing this—especially as the story continues—would see it as a signal that the genre, that the type of storytelling has changed.  And there's good reason for the storyteller to make this change.  Chapters 6 and 7 are transitions in the book of Daniel from those earlier stories that were a type of wisdom literature, to Daniel's apocalyptic vision.  We're moving from the historical to the prophetic and apocalyptic and the book does that with one last story about Daniel in exile, but this time it's—well—the best thing I can think to call it is a “prophetic parable”.  It's a story that serves a different purpose than the other stories.  As we move from the historical to the apocalyptic, this story of Daniel in the lions' den makes us pause as it reminds us of the big picture, the big story about the God of Israel and his people, it reminds us that he's got a plan and is directing history towards an end goal, and it reminds his people of their place in that big story. So it begins with Darius.  On the one hand, in the previous verse he's called “the Mede”, but here he's the Darius who organised his empire into satrapies.  That's exactly what Darius the Great—who followed twenty years later and was a Persian—that's what he did.  I don't think this isn't a mistake or a historical error.  This character is a sort of a composite of pagan kings who represents, who stands for something in the story.  Again, we're moving from history to parable here.  Think of the parables Jesus told.  This character represents the faithful in Israel.  That character represents the unfaithful.  And that character represents the gentiles.  Here the king and his satraps represent the rulers of the gentiles.  And Daniel represents Israel.  Like Daniel, Israel had the Lord's favour.  She was his favourite amongst the nations and the nations became jealous.  And that's exactly what happens to Daniel in this story.  When they see how he's been elevated and has been given authority over them, the satraps chafe.  He was one of the exiles.  He wasn't one of them.  He didn't deserve his special status or his high rank or his favour with the king.  So they get together and conspire against him. There are echoes of Psalm 2 here.  In fact, I think if you wanted to turn Psalm 2—which is one of those big picture psalms that ends up pointing us to Jesus—if you wanted to turn Psalm 2 into a parable, I think it would end up looking a lot like Daniel 6.  The psalm begins: Why do the nations rage          and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves,          and the rulers take counsel together,          against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying, “Let us burst their bonds apart          and cast away their cords from us.” (Psalm 2:1-3) Notice where they attack Daniel?  It was “the law of his God”.  He was blameless in everything so they go after his faith.  And in that they're not just attacking Daniel.  Through Daniel, this is an attack on God himself.  It echoes what it meant in the Old Testament to stand against Israel and, looking forward to Jesus and then to the church, to attack Jesus was to attack God himself.  Think of Jesus' confrontation with Paul on the road to Damascus: “Why are you persecuting me?” he asked Paul.  To attack the church was to attack Jesus himself.  To attack the Lord's anointed is to attack the Lord himself. So these men go to the king—all of them.  The satraps, who were viceroys over the provinces; Daniel's two fellow triumvirs; and all the other counsellors and officials.  It's quite the gang.  Everybody hates Daniel.  But they know that Daniel has favour with the king, so in order to take Daniel down, they're going to have to deceive and manipulate the king.  So they hatch this scheme to recommend a law.  This injunction will ban everyone in the empire from petitioning any god for thirty days.  For that time period, everyone will be required to petition the king and only the king.  And the penalty—you know the story—the penalty for anyone who breaks this injunction will be the lions' den. Again, the details signal that this isn't the same kind of story we've had before in Daniel.  It's a parable.  As the nations rage against the Lord and his anointed in Psalm 2, all the king's governors and counsellors rage against Daniel and, through him, his God.  The decree is not something that a Persian king would have signed—or a Babylonian or any other Ancient Near Eastern king, for that matter.  The Jews who read this would have known that.  The Persians were known for their religious and cultural tolerance—and especially their friendliness to the Jews.  Not only were they tolerant, but the Persian kings were Zoroastrians and would never put themselves in the position of the gods.  But even all that aside, to ban prayer to the gods was religious and political suicide.  Nabonidus got into trouble for downgrading Marduk and elevating Sin.  You can imagine the sort of trouble a king would get into if he made it illegal to pray to anyone but himself.  And, of course, why for only thirty days?  If you're going put yourself in the place of the gods, why not do it permanently? The absurdity of the law is meant to highlight the unhinged rage these men had against Daniel and his God and reflects the real-life experience of Israel, beginning with Pharaoh and running all the way through their story down to Antiochus Epiphanes.  Men who so hate the Lord and his anointed that they'll cut their own noses off to spite their faces.  Even the punishment seems to be deliberately over the top.  As far as we know, no one in Babylon or Persia kept lions around in a den.  Kings might catch and release lions for hunting, but they didn't keep them as pets or to execute prisoners.  But this threat hanging over Daniel represents the very real threat hanging over the faithful in Israel. And looking to pagan kings for help was hopeless.  As much as he favoured Daniel, Darius, this great emperor, is a pathetic dupe, conned and fooled by his advisors and hobbled by his own laws.  In contrast to the perfect law of the God of Israel, the great law of the Medes and Persians—like so many other human laws—is arbitrary, short-sighted, and self-defeating.  What was Daniel to do?  Look at verse 10: When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously.   What was Daniel going to do?  We've seen in the earlier stories that sometimes the wise thing for God's people to do is to keep their heads down and pursue a quiet faithfulness.  Being faithful doesn't always mean sticking your head off so that it can be cut off.  But Daniel knew these guys were watching him.  He could have closed his shutters.  He could have gone somewhere out of sight to pray.  But to do that in this case would be to betray the Lord.  So he continues to pray as he always had: morning, noon, and evening.  And as he prays he does so in the direction of the temple in Jerusalem.  That was a tradition begun by Solomon at the dedication of the temple and Daniel continued it and in that he declared his hope.  For all his status and privilege in this foreign land and with a foreign king, he made it clear that his ultimate hope lay in the promises of the God of Israel to deliver his people from their exile and to return them to the promised land.  Daniel knew that God is faithful and because of that he trusted him—not only that, but he made that trust public. And, of course, the inevitable happens.  Verse 11: Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” (Daniel 6:11-13) So they go back to their spying on Daniel to confirm what they were already sure he would do.  And then they take their evidence to the king.  Their smarminess if palpable.  “O King!  Did you not sign an injunction that anyone who petitions anyone but you shall be cast into the den of lions?”  Like the king wouldn't remember if he'd signed such a petition.  Again, we get a sense of just how pathetic earthly kings are and how foolish it is to put our hope in them.  “Oh yes,” he says, “Of course I remember.  It's now the unchangeable law of the Medes and the Persians.”  We're left wondering how busy the king has been, because surely, if everyone had taken this law seriously, Darius would have been swamped with petitions—but we don't get the impression at all that anything like that has happened.  If these guys had been bringing their petitions to the king, they hardly needed to ask him if he remembered signing the injunction.  So either these guys have been ignoring it and praying to their gods anyway or—and this is the implication—they're a bunch of impious louts who don't pray at all.  They stand in stark contrast to Daniel, who prayed three times a day and, no doubt, used that time to lift up the king and his empire to the Lord.  These other guys show that they don't care about the king; they only care about themselves and their own power and status.  Verses 14 to 18: Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.”   Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him.   The king now regrets his decision, but there's nothing he can do.  The greatest king, the most powerful man in the world stands useless and powerless to save Daniel or to intervene on his behalf.  Even as he exhorts Daniel to pray to his God for deliverance, the king is commanding Daniel to be thrown into this pit of lions and sealing the opening with his own signet.  But now, what the satraps and counsellors intended as a punishment and execution, the king unwittingly turns into a contest, a trial.  Will Daniel's God deliver him?  The den is sealed.  No one can intervene.  The Most High God has, in his sovereignty, used the wickedness of evil men and the foolishness of the king to orchestrate a situation that will reveal his glory.  In that, the lion's den points prophetically to the tomb in which Jesus lay.  What will the king find when the stone is rolled away?  Has evil won the day or has the living God? And, not unlike Jesus' friends, the king goes home and, too anxious to eat or sleep, he paced and prayed.  And in the next verse we can almost see the king's robes flying behind him and hear his sandals slapping as he runs—in a very unkingly fashion—to the lions' den at sunrise. Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God.  (Daniel 6:19-23) Unable to move the heavy stone himself, the king calls out to Daniel: “O servant of the living God, are you still there?  Has the God whom you so faithfully serve delivered you from the lions?”  That the king speaks of the living God is a powerful witness.  Living God doesn't just mean that God isn't dead.  It means that God is active and powerful, that he is awesome and mighty, that he brings judgement and blessing.  Again, the satraps and counsellors expected an execution, but Darius has turned this into a contest.  Will the God of Daniel act?  Will he vindicate himself by delivering his servant?  And, of course, God has done just that.  The king hears Daniel's voice echoing up through the stone.  “O king, live forever!  Yes, my God has delivered me!”  In an echo of the fiery furnace episode, God sent his angel to shut the lions' mouths and Daniel is alive and well.  There's not so much as a scratch on him.  The king's men roll the stone away and Daniel emerges unharmed, because he trusted in God.  The God of Israel has won the contest. The satraps and triumvirs, and counsellors of the king have lost.  So the king turns the tables. Verse 24: And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces.   Presumably this means that all 120 satraps with their families are thrown to the lions.  Again, the scene isn't realistic and trying to figure out how this could possibly be done is to miss the point of the parable.  This scene calls back to the Lord's promise to Abraham in Genesis 12: “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.”  And to passages like Isaiah 41:11: “Behold, all who are incensed against you shall be put to shame and confounded; those who strive against you shall be as nothing and shall perish.”  And, again, I think this what Psalm 2 looks like as a parable. He who sits in the heavens laughs;          the Lord holds them in derision. Then he will speak to them in his wrath,          and terrify them in his fury, saying, “As for me, I have set my King          on Zion, my holy hill.” I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;          today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,          and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron          and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.” Now therefore, O kings, be wise;          be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear,          and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son,          lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,          for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psalm 2:4-12) The psalm is a declaration of the Lord's intent to be glorified.  He has made a people for himself and even given them a king and through them he will be glorified.  He will be glorified in the nations and kings who see him at work in his people and give him glory and he will be glorified as he vindicates his people and judges their oppressors.  And that's just what we see as the satraps are thrown to the lions and as Darius' glorifies the Lord in the closing verses of the story: Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel, for he is the living God,          enduring forever; his kingdom shall never be destroyed,          and his dominion shall be to the end. He delivers and rescues;          he works signs and wonders          in heaven and on earth, he who has saved Daniel          from the power of the lions.”   So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. (Daniel 6:25-28) The historical Darius was what we might call an evangelical Zoroastrian.  History—not to mention lots and lots of his own inscriptions—show that he was single-mindedly devoted to Ahura Mazda.  But this is a parable and the king here is a composite.  He represents the gentile kings of the earth.  While the satraps represent the gentiles who will persist in their unbelief and eventually be judged, the king here represents those kings—like the ones we see in Revelation—who see the God of Israel as he vindicates his son and as he vindicates his church, and who end up believing and coming to the New Jerusalem to glorify this living God.  Darius' decree is echoed by the songs we hear in the heavenly throne room in John's vision as they acknowledge the saving power and everlasting dominion of the God of Israel.  In that I think we see the prophetic side of this parable that transitions us into Daniel's apocalyptic vision. In that, it points us powerfully to Jesus in the same way that Psalm 2 does.  The psalm is about Israel and about King David, but it points forward to Jesus who would embody Israel and Israel's king to accomplish the saving work of God and the establishment of his everlasting dominion.  Daniel's dilemma points to Jesus.  When Daniel went home to pray, he knew he would fall afoul of the king's new law.  He knew he would end up in the lions' den.  He didn't know if he would live or die.  He had the example of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace, but would the Lord send his angel again to deliver his faithful servant?  Miracles don't happen every day—that's why they're miracles.  What were the chances that it would happen twice?  But Daniel knew that he didn't have a choice.  He could dishonour God by hiding his prayer or he could give glory to God by showing his unwavering faithfulness to him.  Daniel chose to remain faithful and to glorify God and in that he points to Jesus.  Daniel knew with certainty that the living God vindicates his anointed.  And Jesus knew that too.  We don't always know what form that vindication may take or when it may happen.  Daniel escaped without a scratch.  Jesus was scourged, beaten, and killed.  But in the end the Lord vindicated both and revealed his glory to the watching world. And in that there's the reminder—and I think maybe the main purpose of this prophetic parable:  Brothers and Sisters, the Lord does not merely glorify himself.  He has, to use the imagery of Psalm 2, anointed a people for himself and that people—first a small ethnic group in the Old Testament, but now a worldwide family of people united to Jesus and filled with God's own Spirit—the living God has anointed a people for himself, a people full of his own life, that we might reveal and proclaim his glory to the world and that he might reveal his own glory as he vindicates us before the watching world.  There's a reason why God's people are called to a life of humility, sacrifice, and even martyrdom.  There's a reason Jesus calls us to take up our crosses if we are to follow him.  Because the Lord reveals his glory in our deliverance.  He slays the dragon and rescues his bride and becomes the hero as the world watches.  To quote the Roman scholar and priest, David Burrell, who died a few months ago, “We are never enjoined in the Scriptures to accomplish anything. The recurring theme of the psalmist, who summarizes as only poets can the sweep of God's covenanting with his people, is that we are to recount—often and loudly—God's accomplishments, his great deeds on our behalf.”  Brothers and Sisters, if we have really and truly believed the good news about Jesus and all the long history of the Lord's faithfulness to his people, if we really believe that good news, it ought to work out in our lives as we recount—often and loudly—what he has done.  Because we want to proclaim his greatness, his goodness, and his faithfulness for the sake of his glory and because we desire for the whole world know him as we have—so that one day the knowledge of his glory will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.  Hebrews famously speaks of the great cloud of witness around us, witness who ought to inspire us to faithfulness.  But, Brothers and Sisters, remember that you and I are, ourselves, are part of that cloud.  As those witnesses exhort us, we exhort each other and those who will come after us.  So let us be faithful in running the race that is set before us, knowing the mighty deeds of our God, knowing his faithfulness, and above all looking to Jesus who has perfect our faith by enduring the cross, despising the shame, and because of that, is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Let's pray: Heavenly Father, as we confessed in today's collect, we have no power to help ourselves.  You are the living God who, through the death and resurrection of your son, has gracious restored us to life.  Keep the cross ever before us that we might always remember our helplessness and your great grace and might and often and loudly proclaim your glory.  Through Jesus we pray.  Amen.

An Anxious Inheritance reveals the tensions between the early framers of Islam and the ever-expandable category of non-Muslims. Examining the encounter with these religious others, and showing how the Qur'an functioned as both a script to understand them and a map to classify them, this study traces the key role that these religious others played in what would ultimately emerge as (Sunni) orthodoxy. This orthodoxy would appear to be the natural outgrowth of the Prophet Muhammad's preaching, but it ultimately amounted to little more than a retroactive projection of later ideas onto the earliest period.Non-Muslims (among them Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians) and the "wrong" kinds of Muslims (e.g., the Shi'a) became integral—by virtue of their perceived stubbornness, infidelity, heresy, or the like—to the understanding of what true religion was not and, just as importantly, what it should be. These non-Muslims were rarely real individuals or groups; rather, they functioned as textual foils that could be conveniently orchestrated, and ultimately controlled, to facilitate Muslim self-definition. Without such religious others proper belief could, quite literally, not be articulated. Shedding new light on the early history of Islam, while also problematizing the binary of orthodoxy/heresy in the study of religion, An Anxious Inheritance makes significant contributions to a number of diverse academic fields.

We are raiding the Guardian Long Read archives to bring you some classic pieces from years past, with new introductions from the authors. This week, from 2020: A funeral, a family, and a journey into a disappearing religion. Help support our independent journalism at theguardian.com/longreadpod

The Persian Gulf today is home to multiple cosmopolitan urban hubs of globalization. This did not start with the discovery of oil. The Medieval Persian Gulf (ARC Humanities Press, 2023) tells of the Gulf from the rise of Islam until the coming of the Portuguese, when port cities such as Siraf, Sohar, and Hormuz were entrepots for trading pearls, horses, spices, and other products across much of Asia and eastern Africa. Indeed, products traded there became a key part of the material culture of medieval Islamic civilization, and the Gulf region itself was a crucial membrane between the Middle East and the world of the broader Indian Ocean. The book also highlights the long-term presence of communities of South Asian and African ancestry, as well as patterns of religious change among Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, and Muslims that belie the image of a region long polarized between Arabs and Persians and Sunnis and Shi'ites. Brian J. Ulrich is a Professor of History at Shippensburg University. His interests include early Islamic history and the history of the Gulf. He has published on early Islamic history and worked with the archaeological excavations at Kazima in Kuwait. He is the author of Arabs in the Early Islamic Empire: Exploring al Azd Tribal Identity (Edinburgh University Press, 2019). Ahmed Yaqoub AlMaazmi is a Ph.D. candidate at Princeton University, Near Eastern Studies Department. His research focuses on the intersection of law, the occult sciences, and the environment across the western Indian Ocean. He can be reached by email at almaazmi@princeton.edu or on Twitter @Ahmed_Yaqoub. Listeners' feedback, questions, and book suggestions are most welcome. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

The Persian Gulf today is home to multiple cosmopolitan urban hubs of globalization. This did not start with the discovery of oil. The Medieval Persian Gulf (ARC Humanities Press, 2023) tells of the Gulf from the rise of Islam until the coming of the Portuguese, when port cities such as Siraf, Sohar, and Hormuz were entrepots for trading pearls, horses, spices, and other products across much of Asia and eastern Africa. Indeed, products traded there became a key part of the material culture of medieval Islamic civilization, and the Gulf region itself was a crucial membrane between the Middle East and the world of the broader Indian Ocean. The book also highlights the long-term presence of communities of South Asian and African ancestry, as well as patterns of religious change among Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, and Muslims that belie the image of a region long polarized between Arabs and Persians and Sunnis and Shi'ites. Brian J. Ulrich is a Professor of History at Shippensburg University. His interests include early Islamic history and the history of the Gulf. He has published on early Islamic history and worked with the archaeological excavations at Kazima in Kuwait. He is the author of Arabs in the Early Islamic Empire: Exploring al Azd Tribal Identity (Edinburgh University Press, 2019). Ahmed Yaqoub AlMaazmi is a Ph.D. candidate at Princeton University, Near Eastern Studies Department. His research focuses on the intersection of law, the occult sciences, and the environment across the western Indian Ocean. He can be reached by email at almaazmi@princeton.edu or on Twitter @Ahmed_Yaqoub. Listeners' feedback, questions, and book suggestions are most welcome. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

The Persian Gulf today is home to multiple cosmopolitan urban hubs of globalization. This did not start with the discovery of oil. The Medieval Persian Gulf (ARC Humanities Press, 2023) tells of the Gulf from the rise of Islam until the coming of the Portuguese, when port cities such as Siraf, Sohar, and Hormuz were entrepots for trading pearls, horses, spices, and other products across much of Asia and eastern Africa. Indeed, products traded there became a key part of the material culture of medieval Islamic civilization, and the Gulf region itself was a crucial membrane between the Middle East and the world of the broader Indian Ocean. The book also highlights the long-term presence of communities of South Asian and African ancestry, as well as patterns of religious change among Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, and Muslims that belie the image of a region long polarized between Arabs and Persians and Sunnis and Shi'ites. Brian J. Ulrich is a Professor of History at Shippensburg University. His interests include early Islamic history and the history of the Gulf. He has published on early Islamic history and worked with the archaeological excavations at Kazima in Kuwait. He is the author of Arabs in the Early Islamic Empire: Exploring al Azd Tribal Identity (Edinburgh University Press, 2019). Ahmed Yaqoub AlMaazmi is a Ph.D. candidate at Princeton University, Near Eastern Studies Department. His research focuses on the intersection of law, the occult sciences, and the environment across the western Indian Ocean. He can be reached by email at almaazmi@princeton.edu or on Twitter @Ahmed_Yaqoub. Listeners' feedback, questions, and book suggestions are most welcome. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/islamic-studies

The Persian Gulf today is home to multiple cosmopolitan urban hubs of globalization. This did not start with the discovery of oil. The Medieval Persian Gulf (ARC Humanities Press, 2023) tells of the Gulf from the rise of Islam until the coming of the Portuguese, when port cities such as Siraf, Sohar, and Hormuz were entrepots for trading pearls, horses, spices, and other products across much of Asia and eastern Africa. Indeed, products traded there became a key part of the material culture of medieval Islamic civilization, and the Gulf region itself was a crucial membrane between the Middle East and the world of the broader Indian Ocean. The book also highlights the long-term presence of communities of South Asian and African ancestry, as well as patterns of religious change among Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, and Muslims that belie the image of a region long polarized between Arabs and Persians and Sunnis and Shi'ites. Brian J. Ulrich is a Professor of History at Shippensburg University. His interests include early Islamic history and the history of the Gulf. He has published on early Islamic history and worked with the archaeological excavations at Kazima in Kuwait. He is the author of Arabs in the Early Islamic Empire: Exploring al Azd Tribal Identity (Edinburgh University Press, 2019). Ahmed Yaqoub AlMaazmi is a Ph.D. candidate at Princeton University, Near Eastern Studies Department. His research focuses on the intersection of law, the occult sciences, and the environment across the western Indian Ocean. He can be reached by email at almaazmi@princeton.edu or on Twitter @Ahmed_Yaqoub. Listeners' feedback, questions, and book suggestions are most welcome. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/middle-eastern-studies

The Persian Gulf today is home to multiple cosmopolitan urban hubs of globalization. This did not start with the discovery of oil. The Medieval Persian Gulf (ARC Humanities Press, 2023) tells of the Gulf from the rise of Islam until the coming of the Portuguese, when port cities such as Siraf, Sohar, and Hormuz were entrepots for trading pearls, horses, spices, and other products across much of Asia and eastern Africa. Indeed, products traded there became a key part of the material culture of medieval Islamic civilization, and the Gulf region itself was a crucial membrane between the Middle East and the world of the broader Indian Ocean. The book also highlights the long-term presence of communities of South Asian and African ancestry, as well as patterns of religious change among Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, and Muslims that belie the image of a region long polarized between Arabs and Persians and Sunnis and Shi'ites. Brian J. Ulrich is a Professor of History at Shippensburg University. His interests include early Islamic history and the history of the Gulf. He has published on early Islamic history and worked with the archaeological excavations at Kazima in Kuwait. He is the author of Arabs in the Early Islamic Empire: Exploring al Azd Tribal Identity (Edinburgh University Press, 2019). Ahmed Yaqoub AlMaazmi is a Ph.D. candidate at Princeton University, Near Eastern Studies Department. His research focuses on the intersection of law, the occult sciences, and the environment across the western Indian Ocean. He can be reached by email at almaazmi@princeton.edu or on Twitter @Ahmed_Yaqoub. Listeners' feedback, questions, and book suggestions are most welcome. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Iranian Hostage Crisis would last 444 days and its final day would also be the last day of the administration of Jimmy Carter. It was the singular event that seemed to spell out the frustrations of a nation that had suffered one humiliation and trauma after another for nearly two decades, from assassination of a President, to the Vietnam War that divided America to the  Watergate Scandal that had removed a President from office, and now here we were at the mercy of an Islamic regime determined to take its country back to the 8th century.  It seemed that we were helplessly careening out of control to the status of a failed , third rate power. In Iran, the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi,  had come from a dynasty that had ruled the Persian nation for nearly 1000 years. He had reformed the nation economically during his 37 year reign and it had created an economy that was flourishing, increasing the national income  423 times what it had been, a better growth rate than anywhere else on the planet, including the United States.  He built the the fifth largest Army in the world and had urbanized and modernized the country like no other in the entire Middle East.  He was also a friend to the United States and had embraced much of the western world's economic practices. But he had also had to crackdown on political dissent and as he did so many of the religious leaders of the Shiite Muslim faith had rebelled and considered him an enemy to their cause.  Much of that was because the Shah had given women the right to vote. One cleric in particular, the Ayatollah Khomeini, was offended that he would dare put the future of Iran in the hands of women. He was further incensed when the Shah allowed Iranian Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, and Baha'i to take the oath of office for municipal councils using their holy books instead of the Koran. Khomeini vowed then to overthrow the Shah and institute an Islamic Republic in the place of the ruling monarchy. In 1979, the political unrest turned into a full blown revolution and the Shah left the country on what was called a vacation from which he never returned. Khomeini took control and the events unfolded from their that led to our hostages being captured at the overrun American Embassy.  This is that story, and the brave story of the Canadian diplomats who worked to save six Americans who had somehow missed being taken into captivity on the day the embassy was overrun.  That story is worthy of being a plot of a James Bond movie, in fact, movie making would be a big part of the exit plan.  Questions or comments at , Randalrgw1@aol.com , https://twitter.com/randal_wallace , and http://www.randalwallace.com/Please Leave us a review at wherever you get your podcastsThanks for listening!!

Heaven and hell, Judgement Day, monotheism — these ideas all came from one ancient Persian religion: Zoroastrianism. Also: Sky Burials. Zoroastrians put their dead on top of a structure called The Tower of Silence where vultures devour the body in a matter of hours. It's clean, efficient, eco-friendly. It's how it's been for thousands of years. Until 2006. That's when a Zoroastrian woman living in Mumbai snuck up into the tower and found bloated, rotting bodies everywhere. The vultures were gone. And not just at the tower — all across the country. In this episode, we follow the Kenyan bird biologist, Munir Virani, as he gets to the bottom of this. A mystery whose stakes are not just the end of an ancient burial practice, but the health of all the world's ecosystems. The answer, in unexpected ways, points back to us. Special thanks to Daniel Solomon, Peter Wilson, Samik Bindu, Vibhu Prakash, Heather Natola and the Rapture Trust in New Jersey, and Avir's uncle Hoshang Mulla, who told him about this story over Thanksgiving dinner. EPISODE CREDITSReported by - Avir Mitrawith help from - Sindhu GnanasambandanProduced by - Sindhu Gnanasambandanwith help from - Pat WaltersOriginal music and sound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloomwith mixing help from - Arianne WackFact-checking by - Diane Kellyand Edited by - Pat Walters Our newsletter comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)! Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today. Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.   Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

The Holy Symeon was bishop of the royal cities of Seleucia and Ctesiphon in Persia, during a great persecution under King Sapor II. The king had been incited by (Zoroastrian) Magi jealous of the growth of the Faith in their territory, and by some Jews living in Persia. The king was already displeased with the holy bishop: his eunuch, Ustazan, a secret Christian, had denied Christ, but when reprimanded by Symeon, had confessed the Faith before the King, for which he was executed. On Holy Friday of 343 Symeon, along with at least a hundred other servants of the Church, was sent out to be slain. Symeon exhorted each to be of good courage, and was himself slain last. One year later, again on Holy Friday, the King's eunuch Azat was executed for Christ, along with a great number of the faithful. It is said that more than 1,000 Christians died as martyrs during this persecution.   The Zoroastrians still live in parts of Iran as a small, somewhat persecuted minority under the Islamic government.

The Holy Symeon was bishop of the royal cities of Seleucia and Ctesiphon in Persia, during a great persecution under King Sapor II. The king had been incited by (Zoroastrian) Magi jealous of the growth of the Faith in their territory, and by some Jews living in Persia. The king was already displeased with the holy bishop: his eunuch, Ustazan, a secret Christian, had denied Christ, but when reprimanded by Symeon, had confessed the Faith before the King, for which he was executed. On Holy Friday of 343 Symeon, along with at least a hundred other servants of the Church, was sent out to be slain. Symeon exhorted each to be of good courage, and was himself slain last. One year later, again on Holy Friday, the King's eunuch Azat was executed for Christ, along with a great number of the faithful. It is said that more than 1,000 Christians died as martyrs during this persecution.   The Zoroastrians still live in parts of Iran as a small, somewhat persecuted minority under the Islamic government.

This episode couldn't help being controversial. It was a rare evening recording and so naturally, the gloves came off. We open with racial disparity in IQ and standardized testing, then move into the recent racial controversy surrounding cartoonist Scott Adams. Not to be outdone, we decide to cover religion too where we learned that the Zoroastrians see the earth as a sort of booby-trap for the Devil. Enjoy ;) 

— What is love? To give, and never to ask.  What leads to this love? Grace.  What leads to this grace? Grace is not cheaply bought. It is gained by being always ready to serve, and reluctant to be served. There are many points which lead to this grace: Wishing well for others at the cost of one's self. Never backbiting. Tolerance supreme. Trying not to worry. Trying not to worry is almost impossible - so try. Thinking more of the good points in others, and less of their bad points. What leads to this grace? Doing all the above. If you do one of these things perfectly, the rest must follow. Then grace descends. Have love - and when you have love, the union with the beloved is certain.  ~~~ Meher Baba Valeria interviews Maria O'hia — She believes in trust and faith. She trusts that everything happens for a reason and her faith is that all is well and always will be. It was in college when she adopted this mindset that her life took the direction that led her to where she is now. Away from med school, family, security and safety. At a young age she accepted an arranged marriage, becoming a stepmom to a 12 year old autistic boy. It was only after her first son was born that her life took form and became stable. Maria was fortunate to work with a psychic who told her that she could see in her visions, standing right behind Maria, a long line of people, of tribes, who were hurting and in pain. Maria comes from the Zoroastrian faith, one of the oldest religions in the world. Zoroastrians were discriminated against even to this day. But the history of torture and murder goes back thousands of years. Forced to either revert to the Muslim faith or be slaughtered if reluctant, the Zoroastrians were executed for their simple belief system of good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. Maria had unknowingly been carrying this ancestral trauma all her life. This and her life circumstances led her on the path of healing. She delved into the world of yoga, shamanism, flower essences, reiki, Louise Hay, Ho'oponopono, and Meher Baba. Maria was coined ‘Mother Love' by a saintly hero of India, carrying with him an unending love from beyond, which sparked Maria's inner journey. Maria feels certain, there is a higher purpose to her calling, and every climb, and every peak has been a wonderful awakening. She envisions love that can be seen and then spread throughout the world. Love for oneself. Love for family. Love for all that is divine. Contact Maria at drew@sggmedia.us, or call at (646) 889-1259. You can also visit: https://www.mehercenter.org To learn more about Maria O'hia and her vision, please visit: drew@sggmedia.us or call at (646) 889-1259 - You can also visit: https://www.mehercenter.org           — This podcast is a quest for well-being, a quest for a meaningful life through the exploration of fundamental truths, enlightening ideas, insights on physical, mental, and spiritual health. The inspiration is Love. The aspiration is to awaken new ways of thinking that can lead us to a new way of being, being well. 

This episode of A365 will discuss religious acceptance in the workplace and how we can all recognize various faiths in a respectful and inclusive way.     Isabel Wong (Hong Kong) will lead the conversation with Eboo Patel, Founder and President of Interfaith America to address understanding and embracing different religious identities in the workplace, and how people and organizations can be more inclusive and supportive of diverse religions around the globe.     Authentic 365 – Faith at Work Isabel Wong [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Isabel Wong with Edelman, currently based in Hong Kong. Now for this episode we are going to have a deep dive into the topics of religious acceptance, best practices in the workplace for interfaith dialog, and how religious identities are very much part of the broader diversity and inclusion conversation. And joining me for this conversation is Eboo Patel, founder and president of Interfaith America. Eboo is also a former faith advisor to President Barack Obama. So, Eboo, thank you so much for joining us from Chicago. It's great to have you with us on the show.     Eboo Patel [00:00:40] Isabel, it's great to be with you. Thank you for having me.     Isabel Wong [00:00:43] Thanks for joining us. Now, before we kick start the deep dive conversation, in order to set the scene right, I would like to have you help us understand and give us a brief introduction to our international audience about the work that you do at Interfaith America.     Eboo Patel [00:01:01] Sure. So about 25 years ago, I founded an organization called Interfaith Youth Core. Actually founded it when I was a graduate student at Oxford University. And we ran programs all over the world. And the big idea was that, we should, it was going to strengthen the global fabric to bring young people from different religious identities together, to discuss the shared values between their faiths and to act on those positive values like compassion and hospitality and service. As the organization developed, we rooted it in the country in which I'm a citizen of the United States, even though I was born in India and educated in part at Oxford. I'm an American citizen. I've grown up here. I feel most comfortable in this culture and the organization as we would have here in the big idea of the organization whose name is now Interfaith America, but which started as Interfaith Youth Core, is that religious diversity can be a great strength of a nation in a world if faith is a bridge of cooperation and not a barrier of division or a bludgeon of domination. That's the case at city level, at the national level, and certainly also at the company level. And I'm excited to talk to you, Isabelle, about how positively and proactively engaging religious diversity can strengthen the fabric at both Edelman and for Edelman's clients.     Isabel Wong [00:02:27] Mm hmm. Yeah, I do very much look forward to our discussion as well. And I know that for this conversation, we are going to touch on the concept of religious diversity and also religious acceptance. So I just want to get your help to help our audience understand the concept of religious acceptance as well. And why is this so important?     Eboo Patel [00:02:48] Sure. So so religious diversity is just a fact of our world and a fact of most nations in the world. Meaning that there are people from different religious identities who are living in close quarters together, whether that's in the United States or in India or Brazil or Australia or the United Kingdom or Morocco or South Africa. Anywhere in the world you have people from different religions living together, working together, studying together, playing on sports leagues together, etc.. We don't talk about religious acceptance at Interfaith America because we don't ask people from one religion to accept the doctrine of another religion. It's not about acceptance. It's about cooperation. The idea is not that that Muslims who believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, but not the son of God, should accept the Christian doctrine about Jesus. The idea is that Muslims and Christians should cooperate positively. So we speak of religious diversity, should give rise to interfaith cooperation where faith is a bridge and not a barrier.     Isabel Wong [00:03:58] Yeah, I do very much agree with that as well. And the very foundation of it is also fostering a sense of, you know, ability to appreciate spiritual values, beliefs and faith based practices. You know, there are different from opposed by removing prejudices and stereotypes, which is very much the kind of work that you do also. And it requires mutual respect. Now, I would like to take a deeper dive into embracing religious diversity at work, because obviously when it comes to this topic, a lot of people would just be thinking, how can we really do that? And for authentic 365 this podcast, the kind of conversations that we create, are all about how can one really bring oneself authentically to work. And in our view, one must also feel comfortable to show all sides of himself or herself that includes one's religious identity, because religion is very much an essential part of personal and community identity. So. Eboo, from your perspective, should we speak about our religion, our faith at work? And if so, what is an authentic way to approach it?     Eboo Patel [00:05:10] Sure. So, Isabel, I'm in a slightly adapt the question, and I'm going to say that I think it's important for any company, for for employees to feel like they can bring their best professional self to work and that that company is able to serve its clients and its customers and the community in which it is and in the best possible way. So the question for me is not can you bring your authentic self to work? I appreciate that. That's the question of this podcast. That's not my principle question. The principle question is, can you do your best work at work? And if you are Jewish and keep kosher and there is always a mixing of meat and cheese and there's never any kosher food available, you might not be able to do your best work if you are Hindu and are vegetarian, and there is meat in every dish at the cafeteria at work. You might not be able to do your best work if you are Muslim and you don't drink alcohol on account of your faith. In every social event at work involves copious quantities of alcohol, you might not be able to do your best work. And this is why it's important for a company to positively and proactively engage religious identity when it comes to their employees. To ask the question, can employees from different faiths do their best work here? Are there are we do we have an environment that is respectful of people's diverse religious identities? The framework we use that at my organization, Interfaith America is respect, relate, cooperate. Do you have an environment that respects the identities of diverse people, that encourages positive relationships between them, and that facilitates cooperation on common projects? The beautiful thing about companies is that the common projects are obvious, right? The client work that you're doing, the creative work that you're doing, the initiatives and campaigns that you're working on at Edelman, those are obvious. And so you have a shared project to encourage cooperation. And I think this is one of the reasons that companies can really be leaders in interfaith cooperation efforts, because you naturally have employees from diverse religions present. You naturally facilitate positive relationships through a close environment, and you have shared projects in which to encourage cooperation. There are many parts of who we are which are totally legitimate but but are probably not the best fit for the workplace. And what comes to religious diversity? A good example of this is conversion. It's perfectly legitimate for Christians or Muslims or somebody from a different religious identity or in fact a philosophical worldview like atheist who seeks to bring other people to their faith or worldview. It's a perfectly legitimate activity, but that's not what you want happening at a workplace. The question is how do you engage religious diversity in a way that encourages people to bring their best professional self to work again? People should be able to wear clothes that are appropriate for their religious identities. People should be able to eat the food that is required by their religious identity. People should have a place to pray. If they need to pray, they should have the appropriate days off if they need to take days off for religious holidays, etc. That's a positive and proactive engagement of religious diversity at work that encourages people to bring their best professional self without inviting dimensions of their identity, which are perfectly legitimate in other spaces and churches or mosques or temples, but not appropriate at work. So I would I would offer a framework that is different from authentic self or wholesale. I would offer best professional self.     Isabel Wong [00:08:51] Mm hmm. Yeah. I really like how you mentioned that. And essentially, religious beliefs inform a person's identity, way of life and everyday activities and behaviors. And religious diversity can essentially make a workplace really inclusive in the sense of allowing opportunities for everyone to, you know, work through biases. And then essentially it will come into this positive impact that would result in diversity of thoughts, freedom of choice of beliefs and expressions. Now, obviously, when it comes to introducing and creating a safe space for religious diversity, it it has its challenges. So through the years that you work in this space, what are some of the common challenges that you've seen when there are multiple and diverse faiths represented in the workplace?     Eboo Patel [00:09:41] I think the first thing to say is that in virtually every workplace, when we're talking about the corporate environment, particularly in multinationals like Edelman and the kind of companies that that our clients development, you're going to have religious diversity naturally. You're going to have Muslims and Jews and Christians and Hindus and six and behind and Buddhists and atheists. You are naturally going to have religious diversity. And those people from different religions have important disagreements. They have disagreements a doctrine like the nature of Jesus and the disagreements and ritual practice, like what is permissible to eat. Many Hindus don't eat meat at all. At all. And of course, many especially don't eat beef because of that, the role that cows play in the Hindu faith. Muslims, on the other hand, not only eat meat quite regularly, but actually do it as an important part of several of our rituals, including Eve. That is a simple that is a simple fact that that's a disagreement, pure and simple. The important thing about religious diversity and other dimensions of diversity is to not pretend that differences and disagreements don't exist. Of course they exist. It's to say that those disagreements and differences are not going to prevent us from working on other important projects. I think a company has this opportunity, the ability for people to disagree on some fundamental things like doctrine and ritual practice, and yet work together on other fundamental things like campaigns, initiatives and projects that are essential to the mission and success of the company.     Isabel Wong [00:11:20] Mm hmm. Yeah. And I like how you just mentioned there that disagreements could be expected in different forms, and they don't have to be viewed negatively. Now, obviously, in light of the recent events that put anti-Semitism in the spotlight, the Wilders remind you that religious intolerance and ignorance can cause great harm. So I want to get your perspectives on, you know, how should businesses act around these conversations, right? Should they be taking a stand? And if so, how can they do this more strategically?     Eboo Patel [00:11:56] So you want your you want your employees to feel safe and welcome. Right. And when there is a very public and ugly rise in anti-black racism, as in the case of the murder of George Floyd or anti-Semitism, as has recently happened in the United States with comments by Kanye West and others, it very naturally makes some people, people of that particular identity feel hurt and marginalized and upset. And so that is not good for a company. I also think that companies. Should, generally speaking, not be taking stances on everything. You just can't do that because the world is a place of 8 billion people and there are always going to be conflicts and there's always going to be injustices. And you can't be in a position of of fielding a thousand different petitions a day and deciding which ones you're going to send a tweet out about or send a statement out about. I think that a company ought to decide which items impact its employees, its customers and its mission. So if an anti-Semite is one of your clients, unless you are a law firm defending their First Amendment right, you should think very hard about what you want to do about that. If that person is proactively spreading an ugliness and a bigotry that hurts lots of people, including your employees and your other customers. Again, if you're if you are in the free expression business, I think that the I think that that question might be fielded a bit differently. But broadly speaking, bigotry is a bad thing for business. It's a bad thing for society. It's a bad thing for your employees. It's a bad thing for your customers. Companies should steer clear of that and do it in a way that doesn't that doesn't sign you up for making a statement about every issue on the planet.     Isabel Wong [00:14:20] Hmm. Now I want to get your perspectives and insights into some of the best practices, because you previously served as a former faith advisor for US President Obama. Can you talk about some inclusive faith practices that you shared with Mr. President or other global leaders that you've worked with? You must navigate leading complex social structures and human landscapes that could include religious beliefs.     Eboo Patel [00:14:48] Sure. So I'd like to talk with President Obama and everybody from people who lead local churches to two people who lead global multinationals. I like to tell them that that we should think about diversity, work through the metaphor of a potluck supper. A potluck supper is is an event in which the food is not provided by the host. The host instead provides a space where people bring their own dish. And the thing that I love about a potluck is that a potluck only exists if people make a contribution, if people bring their dish. Right. And so you want this at work. You want your employees to come to work as if it's a potluck. You want them to make a contribution, their gifts and their talents and their efforts of their energy and their labor. That's what makes a workplace work, is when people bring their talents, bring their dish. You don't want everybody to bring the same dish. You don't want to you don't want a potluck of only biryani or only months off or only tacos or only casseroles. You want a diversity of dishes? That's what makes a potluck delicious and interesting and flavorful. And actually, it's not just the array of dishes that help a potluck be wonderful. It's the combinations between them. It's when somebody is crusty. Bread recipe from Eastern Europe goes just perfectly with somebody else's spicy dip from the Middle East. And so a company works well when it is inviting the contributions of diverse people and creating a space where creative combinations can exist. A company ought to be aware of the barriers to some people's contributions. Sexism, racism. Homophobia, Islamophobia. Anti-Semitism. These are bad because they are not only violations of individual dignity, but they are also barriers to people's contributions. There's anti-Semitism in your workplace. Jews are unlikely to be able to bring their best dish if there's Islamophobia in your workplace. Muslims are unlikely to be able to bring their best dish. So reducing barriers to people's contributions is a good thing. And the other thing is you want people to take responsibility for the whole space. The host can't do all the work and a potluck can't do the setup and the clean up and be responsible for getting the conversation going. The community has to do some of that work. Some people have to show up early to do the setup. Some people have to stay late to do the cleanup. Everybody's got to take responsibility for making sure that that the safest space, the space is safe and that the conversation is healthy. So I like to use the metaphor of a potluck supper when talking about diversity work, including religious diversity.     Isabel Wong [00:17:35] Right. And a follow up question for that is, you know, when it comes to this interfaith. I look right. People with different religious backgrounds, like you mentioned just now. I expected to bring their dishes to the table. Do you think atheists and agnostics should join these conversations? Should they be bringing the dishes to the table as well?     Eboo Patel [00:17:54] Oh, of course. Of course. I mean, that's not even that that's not even, you know, a controversy or a moment of pause. People of all faiths and philosophical worldviews are welcome. You absolutely want people who are atheist or agnostic or spiritual seekers or in between religions or whatever it might be to feel like they can do their best work for you at work. You want to be able to have clients from Zoroastrians to atheists, so to speak. And so, you know, we, we tend to call issues about religious diversity. We tend to use the language diverse orientations around religion, which means everything from the different kinds of Muslims in the world, Sunnis and Shias and Sufis, for example, to to people who who don't have religious belief at all and orient around religion as nonbelievers. So that's our kind of formulation that that we believe is more inclusive of atheists as diverse orientations around religion.     Isabel Wong [00:18:57] Yeah. Indeed. The conversation is all about, you know, trying to understand each other, not really to challenge or dispute. So that's a very important mind set that we should all remember. Now, I would like to take a slightly reflective lens on, you know, the work that you've done over the years and ask about your experience, you know, working in spaces inclusive of all faiths, you know, how has that that work really impacted your faith and your connection with others and vice versa? For example, how did those connections inform the work that you do over the years? Has it evolved?     Eboo Patel [00:19:33] Yeah, that's a great question, Isabel. So I've been doing interfaith work for 25 years, 20 of them professionally. In fact, my organization had just celebrated its 20th anniversary. And and I do interfaith work in part out of my own commitment as a smiling Muslim. The Koran says that God made us diverse nations and tribes, that we may come to know one another. There are many examples in the life of the Prophet Muhammad made the peace and blessings of God be upon Him, where he had positive partnerships with people of diverse faiths. In fact, he invited Christians to pray in his mosque, for example. And so there is a muslim inspiration for me to do interfaith work. And absolutely, the people that I engage with from different religions, I learn from their faith. I'm inspired by by their by their faith and their commitment to their faith, even when I don't fully agree with their doctrine. And so the word interfaith actually encapsulates much of the meaning of our effort here. Inter means the interaction between people from different traditions. Faith means one's own relationship with one's religious tradition. And so interfaith is about how our faith guides us to have better interactions with people from other religions and how those interactions with people from other religions actually strengthen our faith, our our relationship with our own religion.     Isabel Wong [00:21:01] And I know that you run your own podcast and on your show you like to answer the question, how does our religious understanding of the world inform how we live and work together? Would you please answer that question for us today?     Eboo Patel [00:21:15] Sure. So I think that the center of Islam is about mercy and monotheism. It's about believing in one God and that that God creates all of us. And our common ancestor is is Adam prophet. Adam, who who is the the the father of us all. And so there is kind of a human family feeling in that. And so that's a really important part of my of of my faith is the idea that that I am inspired by my faith to positively engage with diversity and do interfaith work.     Isabel Wong [00:21:50] And I know that you are an author of multiple books, and this year you also launched a new book. Congratulations, by the way. And it's titled It's We Need to Build Phenix for Diverse Democracy. Can you speak to what the book is about and what readers can take away from it, obviously, without giving away too much?     Eboo Patel [00:22:08] Sure. Well, I do hope that I appreciate you asking about my book, We Need to Build, and I hope that your audience here is interested in it. So a lot of my book is about a positive and constructive engagement with diversity. It's about how our societies can feel like potluck suppers that welcome the distinctive contributions of diverse people and in in facilitate creative combinations and enriching conversations. I don't like the melting pot. Hot metaphor for diversity. And I don't like the battlefield metaphor for diversity. I much prefer a potluck supper. I write about that a lot in my book, and I write about constructive approaches to social change. Social change is not about a more ferocious revolution. Social change is about building a more beautiful social order. And we need to defeat the things we do not love by building the things that we do. And one of the things that I admire about the private sector is, is the manner in which you you do and have the opportunity to build strong institutions which elevate people, both your employees and your customers, and hopefully the communities and societies that you live within. And so there there are lots of examples in my book about how nonprofit institutions do this because I'm part of the nonprofit world. And I also believe that companies have the opportunity to do this as well.     Isabel Wong [00:23:34] And finally, to wrap up this conversation, we normally ask every single guest of ours on authentic 365 this one question, Eboo, how do you define authenticity?     Eboo Patel [00:23:48] Well, for me, it's it is being honest with myself about what inspires me and trying to live that inspiration out in the world. And I'm inspired by diversity work and I'm inspired by constructive approaches to social change. I'm inspired by religion, and I'm inspired by my own faith. And I'm inspired by improving people's lives. And so and so that for me is is my authenticity. And I'm proud to I feel very blessed that I'm able to live out much of that in my life and inspired by my kids and my wife and my family and and having a balanced life between work and family and faith and community and recreation, that's that's also part of an authentic life for me.     Isabel Wong [00:24:31] Yeah, definitely. If we want to be inclusive, diverse and comprehend how we relate to each other, we need to continue to expand our understanding of different cultures values, and that includes various religions, beliefs and practices. That was a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your time and insights with us. Eboo, It was a pleasure.     Eboo Patel [00:24:53] Thank you so much, Isabel.    

Welcome back to Why Do Guys! Today Dylan and Usama discuss a WILD fan question about getting circumsied for their girlfriend. Plus they learn about the death practices of Zoroastrians, what famous comedians have put on their tombstones, and review hinge profiles from Samantha and Allison. EMAIL QUESTIONS AND HINGE PROFILES TO: whydoguyspodcast@gmail.com ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Find Dylan here: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dylanjpalladino/?hl=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/dylanjpalladino Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanjpalladino?lang=en Find Usama here: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/usamastandsup/?hl=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/usamastandsup?lang=en Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@usamastandsup?lang=en --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dylan-palladino5/message

It's almost officially springtime in the Northern Hemisphere, and the vernal equinox brings with it another reason to celebrate: Nowruz! Commonly known as Persian New Year, Nowruz has its roots in a millennia-old religion founded by a man named Zartosht whose ideas had a profound impact on the world. Anna introduces fire temples and what ancient writers had to say about Zoroastrianism, while Amber hypes the Bronze Age in Central Asia and suggests some ways in which Zoroastrian ideas have affected other religions. Nowruz: Traditions for Persian New Year (United States Institute of Peace: The Iran Primer)What life was like when Zoroaster lived? (Zoroastrian Kids)Avesta (Livius.org)Zoroastrians of Central Asia: Evidence from Archaeology and Art (FEZANA Journal via Academia.edu)Records of the General Conference, 31st session, Paris, 2001, v. 2: Proceedings (UNESCO)Ancient Sogdiana: A ‘Zoroastrian Stronghold' (Avesta.org)Parsi Woman Excommunication Case (Supreme Court Observer)Early Chahar-Taqi Fire Houses and Temples (Heritage Institute)The culture and social institutions of ancient Iran (WorldCat.org)Ātaškada (Encyclopedia Iranica)Fire Altars and Fire Temples in the First Millennia BC/AD in the Iranian World (via ResearchGate)Zoroastrians in East Africa (The Zoroastrian Diaspora)The Obscure Religion that Shaped the West (BBC Culture)An Archaeology of Religion (via Google Books)A Rare Glimpse Inside A Zoroastrian Temple In New York (HuffPost)

Where was Jesus for the first thirty years of his life? Where and what was he taught?  Who were his teachers? 21st Century Radio® Host Dr. Bob Hieronimus sits down with mystic and author Tricia McCannon to discuss her book Jesus: The Explosive Story of the 30 Lost Years and the Ancient Mystery Religion. Based on new information culled from hard to find Vatican texts, theosophical classics, ancient texts, legends, and systems of hermetic symbolism, Tricia McCannon constructs a radical new timeline of Jesus' life. She assert Jesus spent at least seven years of study and training in Egypt, a number of years in England, and visited both India and Tibet before beginning his public ministry in Palestine. This is a wide-ranging examination of the direct links and similarities between Jesus' teachings and those of various Mystery religions and sects that were popular during his lifetime, including the Essenes, Buddhist, Mithrans, Zoroastrians, and Druids. McCannon offers compelling evidence that places Jesus's life and mission firmly in the context of the profound spiritual teachings that came before him. Drawing on records from the Vatican, Tibet, India, and Egypt, along with Greek, Aramaic, and Pali text, as well as oral traditions of Jesus's teachings, McCannon uncovers the real reason that he has remained such a powerful and pivotal figure in world consciousness for over two millennia. McCannon is the author of over 30 DVDs and 13 on-line books, all focused on personal transformation, awakening Christ Consciousness and Global Healing. She is also the Director of the Phoenix Fire Mystery School, the Founder of the Gnosis Learning Institute, and the Founder/President of the UFO Forum in Atlanta. Originally recorded in 2017.  

Where was Jesus for the first thirty years of his life? Where and what was he taught?  Who were his teachers? 21st Century Radio® Host Dr. Bob Hieronimus sits down with mystic and author Tricia McCannon to discuss her book Jesus: The Explosive Story of the 30 Lost Years and the Ancient Mystery Religion. Based on new information culled from hard to find Vatican texts, theosophical classics, ancient texts, legends, and systems of hermetic symbolism, Tricia McCannon constructs a radical new timeline of Jesus' life. She assert Jesus spent at least seven years of study and training in Egypt, a number of years in England, and visited both India and Tibet before beginning his public ministry in Palestine. This is a wide-ranging examination of the direct links and similarities between Jesus' teachings and those of various Mystery religions and sects that were popular during his lifetime, including the Essenes, Buddhist, Mithrans, Zoroastrians, and Druids. McCannon offers compelling evidence that places Jesus's life and mission firmly in the context of the profound spiritual teachings that came before him. Drawing on records from the Vatican, Tibet, India, and Egypt, along with Greek, Aramaic, and Pali text, as well as oral traditions of Jesus's teachings, McCannon uncovers the real reason that he has remained such a powerful and pivotal figure in world consciousness for over two millennia. McCannon is the author of over 30 DVDs and 13 on-line books, all focused on personal transformation, awakening Christ Consciousness and Global Healing. She is also the Director of the Phoenix Fire Mystery School, the Founder of the Gnosis Learning Institute, and the Founder/President of the UFO Forum in Atlanta. Originally recorded in 2017.

Bron didn't know she was a “fish”. Not when she responded to the Salvo email for volunteers to work on Nauru. Not when she landed there and walked out into the hot tropical sun. Not even when she completed her induction. Bronwyn first started to get an inkling that she may be a fish when she recognised the churning in her stomach as fear. She was afraid of the asylum seekers because they were different to her and although it took her a while, Bron came fully face to face with her “fishiness”. She realised that she'd been swimming in the water of racism and white privilege her whole life – part of growing up in a mono-cultural conservative Bible-belt part of Sydney. Bron couldn't stop being a fish, but now she knew about her “water” she could work with it. As she returned to Nauru in the full-time role of Religious Liaison Officer, responsible for the religious needs of the entire asylum seeker cohort – Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians - it became a joy for Bronwyn to sit at her desk and hear so many languages swirl around her. Working in a multi-faith, multi-race team, Bron learned to value difference as an asset rather than see it as a threat.Now, Bronwyn uses that insight to raise awareness of bias, work to identify the biases at play and assist in developing strategies to work with bias rather than have it be a limiting factor in the workplace. Connect with Bron:Website: https://bronwilliams.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/speaker-unconscious-biasEmail: info@bronwilliams.comConsider Supporting The Show!For the cost of a cup of Joe click the link below:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/laquitastoolboxContact LaQuita Monley:If you would like to be a guest on "LaQuita's Toolbox", please schedule a 15-minute discovery call with me.https://calendly.com/laquitamonley/podcast-pre-booking-call-requestEmail: podcast@laquitamonley.com

In Chapter 02 of the Gospel of Matthew, Levi tells the "famous" story of the three wise men (magi -- probably Zoroastrians from Persia). Great little Chapter!

From the Aztecs to the Zoroastrians, humans have always prayed for rain. We've tried dances, ritual sacrifices and even blowing up the sky to boost rainfall. This might sound crazy but desperate times call for desperate measures. Climate change is making people desperate again, in some regions droughts are becoming more frequent and pervasive whereas in others floods threaten livelihoods and cities. We have already affected our weather cycle but can we control it? Many governments have turned to cloud seeding programmes to try to manipulate rain to fall where they desire it to. But does it actually work, and what are the potential ramifications? We speak to experts about how people are trying to create rain, whether we're on the brink of a geopolitical nightmare. Presenters Graihagh Jackson and Neal Razzell spoke to: Cynthia Barnett, Environmental Journalist and author of ‘Rain: a Natural and Cultural History' Dr Katja Friedrich, Professor of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, University of Colorado Boulder Dr Dhanasree Jayaram, Assistant Professor at the Department of Geopolitics and International Relations, Manipal Academy of Higher Education. The team this week: Reporter: Valdya Baraputri, Bilingual Reporter BBC Indonesia, reporting in Jakarta Researcher: Imogen Serwotka Producer: Lizzy McNeill Series Producer: Jordan Dunbar Production Coordinators: Helena Warwick-Cross & Siobhan Reed Editor: Richard Fenton-Smith Sound Wizard: Tom Brignell

Recently, The Associated Press’s David Crary wrote a primer about Zoroastrians, one of the oldest faiths that has, until recently, experienced ever-dwindling numbers. A new focus on young Zoroastrians may change that.

A discussion of early Gnostic beliefs and Zoroastrians, moving on to early Christianity and Neo-Platonic thought, and then Cathars and the middle ages. Highlights the goddess Sophia, tarot cards and reclaiming the sacred feminine. Ambient music includes Night Fall, Minor Arcana, Darkness and Final Credits.

Islam looks at the previous Prophets and their messages as being ONE message from the ONE God. Thus, groups such as the Jewish community, Christian community and to an extent others like the Sabians and Zoroastrians were considered as “People of the Book” – having been given messages from Allāh. Whereas they were original messages from Allāh, however, with the coming of the Quran and Prophet Muḥammad, their teachings ceased to be relevant and they were expected to “convert” to the new faith.

Overwhelming evidence exists that modern-day Christian beliefs, practices, and concepts such as the Atonement, Salvation, the idea of God incarnate in man, the blood sacrifice, the concept of a triune God, and other Christian concepts did not originate from God nor Jesus Christ; instead, they came from men influenced by pagan rituals and beliefs. These Christian rituals came from the same pagan beliefs and ideals that Jesus Christ fought against and did all he could to destroy. These Christian ideas came from Pagan Roman and Greek concepts and Hinduism, Buddhism, and other Pegan ideologies.  The pagan worship environment that Paul was immersed in heavily influenced him. The idea of a man-god, similar to the Christian belief in Jesus Christ's divinity, is not a new concept. The ancient Egyptian Pharos were supposedly man-gods who had to be sacrificed for society's greater good and were worshiped by believers. Other past nations falsely worshipped man-gods. The Christian symbol was first a fish, a symbol of the last supper; then it morphed into a cross. The ancient Egyptians also used the cross as their religious symbol of their sun god - the cross of light.  The Trinity is also not new, as Christians took that concept from pagan ideologies. Many ancient religions held the idea of a threefold division in the entities they worshiped, such as in ancient Egypt, Greek, and India. Trinities were worshipped in various places during the time of Jesus Christ.   Some of the pagan gods wrongfully worshipped supposedly died violently and were resurrected to save their people—such as Christians believe. The ancient Egyptians worshipped a trinity, and their trinity symbols were a wing, glove, and a serpent--which they felt represented three attributes of their God. Egyptians worshipped the Trinity of gods Horus, Isis, and Osiris long before the time of modern Christianity. The gods of the Greco-Roman Palmyra were the Lord in the Heavens, the sun god, and the moon god. The Babylonians and Zoroastrians also worshipped a trinity of gods, as did many other past societies. Hindu worship revolves around a trinity consisting of Brahma, Siva, and Vishnu. Their followers believed that their gods died for the sins of their believers. Do these concepts sound familiar? Do a quick internet search and read if you do not believe these words! In Mithraism, Persians believed Mithra to be a great mediator between God and man. He was borne on December 25th by a virgin who died for humanity and was resurrected after being buried. He was called their savior. Mithra's festivals were the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox (Christmas and Easter). Again, these modern-day Christian concepts were taken from past pagan religions.  December 25th is not found in the original teaching of Jesus Christ, nor is it the date that Jesus Christ was born, as many Christian scholars acknowledge. December 25th fell around the time of the pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice, which fell in midwinter during the shortest day of the year—when the "sun is born." December 25th was known as the birthday of the Roman Sun-god, Sol-Invictus, and the Persian sun-god, Mithra. Many of the gods worshiped in the past were sun-gods, and nearly all were born on or around what is now Christmas Day. Christians borrowed the concept of Christmas Day from the ancient pagan festival of the sun. The actual birth date of Jesus Christ is unknown. Some indicate that Jesus' birthdate is early spring because of the biblical reference to his birth that referenced the shepherds watching their flocks by night, as stated in Luke 2:8. The shepherds would not have worked in the fields with their livestock during the long cold winter, but no solid evidence of the actual date of Jesus Christ's birth exists, as it is not mentioned anywhere in the Scriptures.  The concepts of the Christmas tree, its ornaments, and Santa Claus also come from pagan ideologies.

The Holy Symeon was bishop of the royal cities of Seleucia and Ctesiphon in Persia, during a great persecution under King Sapor II. The king had been incited by (Zoroastrian) Magi jealous of the growth of the Faith in their territory, and by some Jews living in Persia. The king was already displeased with the holy bishop: his eunuch, Ustazan, a secret Christian, had denied Christ, but when reprimanded by Symeon, had confessed the Faith before the King, for which he was executed. On Holy Friday of 343 Symeon, along with at least a hundred other servants of the Church, was sent out to be slain. Symeon exhorted each to be of good courage, and was himself slain last. One year later, again on Holy Friday, the King's eunuch Azat was executed for Christ, along with a great number of the faithful. It is said that more than 1,000 Christians died as martyrs during this persecution.   The Zoroastrians still live in parts of Iran as a small, somewhat persecuted minority under the Islamic government.