Podcasts about Workplace bullying

Welcome to our three-part episode covering the webinar series of the 2025 International Day Against Harassment and for Inclusion in the World of Work, an event organised by Rezalliance in partnership with FER Geneva, Narratives of Purpose, and Strukturelle.This first episode delves into the intricate relationship between workplace harassment, mental health, and organisational culture. The speakers, Dr. Makiko Kuramoto and Dr. Jennifer Fraser, engage in a profound exploration of how systemic issues within corporate environments contribute to the normalisation of bullying and harassment. They argue that such behaviours often symptomatic of deeper cultural flaws, including rigid hierarchies and a lack of accountability. The discussion highlights the neurobiological consequences of harassment, stating that such knowledge is essential for fostering healthier workplaces. Both experts stress the importance of leadership in modeling appropriate behaviour and establishing a culture of safety, respect, and open communication, thereby not only preventing harassment but also enhancing overall organisational performance. Be sure to visit our podcast website for the full episode transcript.LINKS:Find out more about the 2025 edition of the International Day Against Harassment and for Inclusion in the World of Work at 24may.orgConnect with our guest Dr. Makiko Kuramoto: LINKEDINLearn more about Makiko's consulting company FUMI Consulting at fumiconsulting.co.jpConnect with our guest Dr. Jennifer Fraser: LINKEDIN Learn more about Jennifer's book "The Bullied Brain" at bulliedbrain.comFollow our host: WEBSITE | LINKEDINFollow us: LinkedIn | Instagram Connect with us: narrativespodcast@gmail.com | subscribe to our news Tell us what you think: write a review CHAPTERS:00:18 - Introduction to the International Day against Harassment and for Inclusion in the World of Work03:10 - The Impact of Workplace Harassment on Mental Health07:58 - The Long-Term Effects of Workplace Bullying on The Brain16:41 - Training on Emotional Intelligence and Leadership Awareness as Practical Solutions to Prevent Harassment20:04 - Educating on the Dark Triad as Practical Solution to Prevent Harassment22:45 - Concluding Remarks: The

Last Friday (May 16) was Pink Shirt Day in New Zealand which, as we know, is to promote anti-bullying - serving as a reminder that bullying can happen anywhere. Some people think it only happens in the playground at school but reports show it also occurs in workplaces, with a Massey Uni study in 2023 reported 1 in 4 people experienced bullying at least monthly in the workplace. Clinical psychologist Dougal Sutherland unpacked the numbers - and offered up some tips as to how it can be dealt with. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is a must-listen episode - compelling, confronting, and deeply necessary. In this powerful conversation, I’m joined by Vanessa Vershaw, a workplace psychologist and trusted advisor to executives and decision-makers across ASX 20 and Fortune 100 companies. Vanessa is a fierce advocate for gender equality and social justice, recently representing the APAC region at the 2025 World Woman Foundation in Davos, and recipient of the Momentum Trailblazer of the Year Award. Together, we unpack the uncomfortable and often silenced issue of workplace bullying —particularly the kind that exists between women. Vanessa brings real insight into why bullying thrives even in the most progressive organisations, how silence and systems protect harmful behaviour, and what leaders must do to stop enabling it. If you care about culture, integrity, and psychological safety in the workplace—you need to hear this. What We Cover in This Episode What workplace bullying really looks like today – beyond the obvious Why bullying is often ignored, minimised, or denied by senior leaders How HR processes can retraumatise instead of protect The emotional cost of staying silent vs. speaking up Why high-performing environments aren’t always safe environments The difference between performative leadership and real accountability What true leadership looks like when the stakes are high Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction02:15 – Vanessa’s journey and global impact06:30 – What workplace bullying looks like today12:00 – Power, silence, and systemic issues18:40 – When HR protects the system, not the people25:00 – The cost of speaking up33:00 – What real leadership and accountability require42:15 – Final reflections If this episode stirred something in you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. The silence around bullying helps no one—and change starts when we choose to speak up. LINKS Connect with Julie:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-hyde/Instagram: @juliehydeleadsWebsite: https://juliehyde.com.au Connect with Vanessa:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-vershaw/Website: https://www.vanessavershaw.com/Book: https://www.vanessavershaw.com/the-sisterhood-paradox-1See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How do you deal with feelings of betrayal and resentment in the workplace?Chances are, you have experienced hurt feelings at work. The problem is, much of the corporate world revolves around the idea that the office and boardroom are no place for feelings. So, what do you do when emotional wounds begin to impact your ability to even carry out your job?Tara Mohr has thought long and hard about this question. The author of Playing Big: Practical Wisdom for Women Who Want to Speak Up, Create, and Lead acknowledges that office tension can deeply affect our well-being. She joins me to delve into what her research and years of coaching have revealed about the best way to address hurt feelings honestly and professionally, so you can continue to cultivate holistic satisfaction in your work life and beyond.Discover how to navigate hurt feelings at work mindfully, including:How to accept the reality of hurt feelings, even in the workplace;The four-step framework Tara uses to help her clients address their sense of betrayal or hurt at work;Why we need to deal with hurt feelings before making significant career changes.Related Links:Download Tara's F.O.U.R. Process journaling worksheet - https://www.taramohr.com/four-process/Learn more about Tara and her work - https://www.taramohr.comConnect with Tara - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarasmohr/Buy Playing Big: Practical Wisdom for Women Who Want to Speak Up, Create, and Lead - https://www.taramohr.com/the-playing-big-book/Permission To Feel: The Power of Emotional Intelligence to Achieve Well-Being and Success by Marc Brackett - https://bookshop.org/p/books/permission-to-feel-unlocking-the-power-of-emotions-to-help-our-kids-ourselves-and-our-society-thrive-marc-brackett/9879244?ean=9781250212832&next=tRadical Candor by Kim Scott - https://bookshop.org/p/books/radical-candor-be-a-kick-ass-boss-without-losing-your-humanity-kim-scott/8486942?ean=9781250235374&next=tEpisode 30, Coping with Your Inner Critic: https://www.bossedup.org/podcast/episode30Episode 323: How to Lead with Emotional Intelligence - https://www.bossedup.org/podcast/episode323  Episode 394, How to Recover from Workplace Bullying -  https://www.bossedup.org/podcast/episode394LEVEL UP: a Leadership Accelerator for Women on the Rise - https://www.bossedup.org/levelupBossed Up Courage Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/927776673968737/Bossed Up LinkedIn Group - https://www.linkedin.com/groups/7071888/

Welcome to another insightful episode of the Power of Owning Your Career podcast! This week, host Simone Morris sits down with the ever-authentic Jeff Davis, award-winning author, professional speaker, consultant, and mental health advocate. Known as "Mr. Mountaintop" for his deep insights and realness, Jeff returns to the show to discuss his upcoming book, The Courage to Leave: Breaking Free from Toxic Workplaces. Together, Simone and Jeff dive into the very real impact that toxic work environments can have on our mental health, self-esteem, and career advancement. Jeff bravely shares personal stories, lessons from his journey, and practical strategies for anyone feeling stuck in an unhealthy workplace. Along the way, they touch on the importance of mental health, the power of community, and taking actionable steps to find a better professional path. Whether you're facing dysfunction at work or supporting others who are, this episode is packed with valuable advice and hope for a healthier, more empowered career journey.   Time Stamp Of This Episode: 00:00 "Dysfunctional Workplaces Sabotage Careers" 06:03 Battling Workplace Corruption 07:11 "Overcoming Workplace-Induced Self-Doubt" 10:40 Prioritize Mental Health Daily 13:24 Coaching and Therapy Importance 18:14 Accessing Legal Support Options 20:09 "Legal Access Through Work Benefits"   Show Resources: 52 Tips for Owning Your Career Book by Simone E. Morris  The Courage to Leave: Breaking Free from Toxic Workplaces by Jeff Davis LegalShield (or Similar Workplace Legal Support Programs) Therapy and Professional Coaching   Connect with our guest, Jeff Davis, at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffdavis    Connect with the show's host, Simone E. Morris, at https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonemorris/.   To apply to be a guest or recommend guests for the show, visit bit.ly/pooycshowguest    Get More Support for Your Career:

Clement Manyathela speaks to Advaita Naidoo, the Africa Managing Director at Jack Hammer about the method called ‘quiet firing” where companies reduce the size of the workforce without having to pay severance packages. The Clement Manyathela Show is broadcast on 702, a Johannesburg based talk radio station, weekdays from 09:00 to 12:00 (SA Time). Clement Manyathela starts his show each weekday on 702 at 9 am taking your calls and voice notes on his Open Line. In the second hour of his show, he unpacks, explains, and makes sense of the news of the day. Clement has several features in his third hour from 11 am that provide you with information to help and guide you through your daily life. As your morning friend, he tackles the serious as well as the light-hearted, on your behalf. Thank you for listening to a podcast from The Clement Manyathela Show. Listen live – The Clement Manyathela Show is broadcast weekdays between 09:00 and 12:00 (SA Time) on 702 https://www.primediaplus.com/station/702 Find all the catch-up podcasts here https://www.primediaplus.com/702/the-clement-manyathela-show/audio-podcasts/the-clement-manyathela-show/ Subscribe to the 702 daily and weekly newsletters https://www.primediaplus.com/competitions/newsletter-subscription/  Follow us on social media: 702 on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TalkRadio702   702 on TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@talkradio702  702 on Instagram: www.instagram.com/talkradio702  702 on X: www.x.com/Radio702  702 on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@radio702  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever heard the myths about building trust through emotional intelligence, dealing with workplace bullying, and the importance of empathy in leadership? Let's debunk these myths together. Myth 1: Building trust through emotional intelligence is just about being nice. Myth 2: Dealing with workplace bullying effectively means confronting the bully head-on. Myth 3: The importance of empathy in leadership is overrated. I'll share the truth behind these myths, but get ready for a mind-blowing revelation. In this episode, you will be able to: Mastering emotional intelligence to build trust and rapport in the workplace. Overcoming workplace bullying with effective strategies for a healthier work environment. Harnessing the power of empathy for transformative leadership. Empowering women in the world of podcasting for greater diversity and inclusivity. Unleashing effective self-regulation strategies for stronger leadership capabilities. My special guest is Karen Hall Karen Hall, also known as the Queen of Empathy, is an executive producer, host, and speaker at the Los Angeles Tribune. She is a devoted mother, wife, and grandmother, as well as a woman of faith. Karen's expertise extends to being a podcast host and an Emotional Intelligence leadership coach, where she empowers leaders to enhance their emotional intelligence skills, navigate workplace dynamics effectively, and build trust through authentic and compassionate leadership. With a passion for inspiring others, Karen brings a unique blend of personal experience and professional insights to empower leaders across diverse industries. The key moments in this episode are: 00:00:02 - Welcome and Introduction 00:01:22 - The Celebration of Purim 00:05:18 - Emotional Intelligence and Authentic Leadership 00:08:34 - The Power of Understanding 00:12:28 - Importance of De-escalating Emotions 00:13:10 - Importance of Emotional Intelligence and Listening Skills 00:14:09 - The Power of Empathy in Leadership 00:17:55 - Personal Experiences with Empathy and Bullying 00:21:00 - Dealing with Workplace Bullying 00:24:31 - Overcoming Challenges with Advocates and Support 00:25:42 - Advocacy for Women 00:26:27 - Power Dynamics in the Workplace 00:30:21 - Supportive Podcasting Community 00:34:37 - Empowering Women in Leadership 00:35:38 - Courage and Empathy in Leadership 00:37:48 - The Challenge of Empathy and Listening 00:38:19 - Sharing the Episode 00:38:36 - Karen Hall's Leadership Style 00:39:01 - Gratitude and Call to Action 00:39:57 - Final Words of Encouragement Connect with Karen Hall on LinkedIn to share your story with the Los Angeles Tribune. Share this episode with five people who need to hear it, whether they're dealing with a toxic boss, needing to learn empathy, or living in the LA area. Subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with someone you think might need to hear it to help spread the word and support the community. Consider reaching out to Karen Hall for speaking opportunities or to share resources, conferences, or guests for her podcasts, including The Empathy Advantage, The Hero Within, and Unstoppable AF. If you or someone you know is dealing with a toxic situation, gather support and make an escape plan to ensure safety and well-being. Connect with us: https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com Linkedin YouTube Substack FaceBook Instagram Threads Patreon (for exclusive episodes just for Difference Makers) Bluesky TikTok Subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who might need to hear it. Your support helps the community grow and keeps these important conversations going. If you need professional help, such as therapy: https://www.betterhelp.com/difference If you are looking for your next opportunity, sign up for Lori's Masterclass on Master the Career Pivot: https://www.loriadamsbrown.com/careerpivot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever heard the myths about building trust through emotional intelligence, dealing with workplace bullying, and the importance of empathy in leadership? Let's debunk these myths together. Myth 1: Building trust through emotional intelligence is just about being nice. Myth 2: Dealing with workplace bullying effectively means confronting the bully head-on. Myth 3: The importance of empathy in leadership is overrated. I'll share the truth behind these myths, but get ready for a mind-blowing revelation. In this episode, you will be able to: Mastering emotional intelligence to build trust and rapport in the workplace. Overcoming workplace bullying with effective strategies for a healthier work environment. Harnessing the power of empathy for transformative leadership. Empowering women in the world of podcasting for greater diversity and inclusivity. Unleashing effective self-regulation strategies for stronger leadership capabilities. My special guest is Karen Hall Karen Hall, also known as the Queen of Empathy, is an executive producer, host, and speaker at the Los Angeles Tribune. She is a devoted mother, wife, and grandmother, as well as a woman of faith. Karen's expertise extends to being a podcast host and an Emotional Intelligence leadership coach, where she empowers leaders to enhance their emotional intelligence skills, navigate workplace dynamics effectively, and build trust through authentic and compassionate leadership. With a passion for inspiring others, Karen brings a unique blend of personal experience and professional insights to empower leaders across diverse industries. The key moments in this episode are: 00:00:02 - Welcome and Introduction 00:01:22 - The Celebration of Purim 00:05:18 - Emotional Intelligence and Authentic Leadership 00:08:34 - The Power of Understanding 00:12:28 - Importance of De-escalating Emotions 00:13:10 - Importance of Emotional Intelligence and Listening Skills 00:14:09 - The Power of Empathy in Leadership 00:17:55 - Personal Experiences with Empathy and Bullying 00:21:00 - Dealing with Workplace Bullying 00:24:31 - Overcoming Challenges with Advocates and Support 00:25:42 - Advocacy for Women 00:26:27 - Power Dynamics in the Workplace 00:30:21 - Supportive Podcasting Community 00:34:37 - Empowering Women in Leadership 00:35:38 - Courage and Empathy in Leadership 00:37:48 - The Challenge of Empathy and Listening 00:38:19 - Sharing the Episode 00:38:36 - Karen Hall's Leadership Style 00:39:01 - Gratitude and Call to Action 00:39:57 - Final Words of Encouragement Connect with Karen Hall on LinkedIn to share your story with the Los Angeles Tribune. Share this episode with five people who need to hear it, whether they're dealing with a toxic boss, needing to learn empathy, or living in the LA area. Subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with someone you think might need to hear it to help spread the word and support the community. Consider reaching out to Karen Hall for speaking opportunities or to share resources, conferences, or guests for her podcasts, including The Empathy Advantage, The Hero Within, and Unstoppable AF. If you or someone you know is dealing with a toxic situation, gather support and make an escape plan to ensure safety and well-being. Connect with us: https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com Linkedin YouTube Substack FaceBook Instagram Threads Patreon (for exclusive episodes just for Difference Makers) Bluesky TikTok Subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who might need to hear it. Your support helps the community grow and keeps these important conversations going. If you need professional help, such as therapy: https://www.betterhelp.com/difference If you are looking for your next opportunity, sign up for Lori's Masterclass on Master the Career Pivot: https://www.loriadamsbrown.com/careerpivot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we chat about looooads of different teacher topics. The impact of striking. Tips for ECTs and trainees. Managing workload. Identifying workplace bullying. Getting over imposter syndrome & MUCH MORE!Get in touch and leave us a review.. pretty please!Instagram: www.instagram.com/teachsleeprepeatpodcast

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In this conversation, we discuss Emily's journey from being a PA to becoming a writer. We explore the challenges faced during the pandemic, the recognition of burnout, and the healing power of writing. Emily shares her experiences in the medical field, the process of writing her book 'Behind Clinic Doors', and the personal growth she has experienced through this journey. The discussion also touches on the importance of seeking support and the excitement of new projects on the horizon.If you notice you're no longer doing your best work, this can be a sign of burnout.No matter your loyalty to your patients and your coworkers, your own needs must be prioritized, otherwise you'll come to a breaking point.  Family members might realize you're burned out before you doEven when you make the right choice, you still might have uncertainty and it still may not feel good.  You get to choose where you channel your energy.  Will you ruminate over the past or find somewhere new to put your energy?Having a goal to work toward can be healing.Writing down stories can be tremendously therapeutic. It can give you a sense of gratitude and help you remember the enjoyable times.  With any goal, remember you'll never be perfect and there's no wrong way to do it.  Keep persevering.It can be terrifying to put yourself out there, but if you know deep down it's meant to be, it will fill you up.  If you're struggling, tell someone you trust, and look into workplace benefits regarding this.  CONNECT WITH EMILYWebsite: Emily HaynieFB, LinkedInAmazon book, Behind Clinic DoorsCOACHING WITH HOPEMy next Masterclass Series for Clinicians starts 3/18. Click here for more info or shoot me an email if you'd like to be included in the next round hope.cook@gmail.comSchedule a complimentary ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠discovery⁠⁠⁠ callLearn more about 1:1 coaching ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CONNECT:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hope's Website: www.coachhopecook.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hope's IG @coachhopecook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hope's FB @hopeallencook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hope's Linked In: hope-cook-56041283/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hope's YouTube @coachhopecook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: hope.cook@gmail.comLove y'all, and remember: There's always hope!

Gabe Levin, Editor-in-Chief of the Cornell Daily Sun, sits down with WRFI's Felix Teitelbaum for a look back at the week in news at the Sun. The stories covered in this week's episode include:Department of Education Orders Academic Institutions to End All Race-Based Programs Within Two WeeksCornell, 11 Other Universities Sue NIH After Multi-Million Dollar Grant Cuts AnnouncedSen. Cruz-Led Investigation Labels $18.7M in Cornell Research Grants as Promoting DEI, ‘Neo-Marxist Class Warfare Propaganda'University to Cut Off Over $100K in Annual Funding for Center for Transformative Action, Home of Anabel's GroceryAccused of Workplace Bullying, Ousted From Nonprofit — and Then Elected to Ithaca's Common Council

Workplace bullying and harassment in Canada RED FM listeners share their thoughts in this open line segment Host: Taranjeet Kaur Ghuman, RED FM Toronto

In Episode 85, we're joined by Professor David Yamada. We chat about his drafted legislation, the Workplace Bullying Accountability Act and why we need laws to protect workers from abusive workplace environments. You can find Professor Yamada here as well as his Minding the Workplace Blog here.You can find the Workplace Bullying Accountability Act national campaign page hereYou can find the Workplace Bullying Institute herehttps://www.suffolk.edu/academics/faculty/d/y/dyamada https://workplacebullying.org/wbaa/https://workplacebullying.orghttps://newworkplace.wordpress.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit healthywork.substack.com

More women than men are reporting workplace bullying, and many of us feel increasingly lonely. Given that we spend so much of our lives at work, there is much to discuss regarding the connection between workplace bullying, loneliness, and the erosion of social cohesion. Melanie Wilde is deeply passionate about these issues and has recently established the Foundation for Social Health. This is a crucial conversation, especially given the changes we're witnessing across the community and as many of us dive into the new work year. Unfortunately, some individuals may be dreading this time, not due to work stress but because of the people they must interact with. Learn more about why this matters and the role we can all play in combating loneliness—not just through addressing workplace bullying, but in various other ways as well. Read Melanie's opinion piece in Women's Agenda about how workplace bullying is eroding social bonds. Let's engage in this discussion. About Melanie Wilde: An expert in mental health policy and service design with over 20 years of experience, Melanie leads a new national initiative to tackle Australia's loneliness crisis as CEO of the Foundation for Social Health. She has been published in The Age and Canberra Times and regularly comments on mental health issues with ABC Canberra. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

職場霸凌 zhí chǎng bà líng - workplace bullying 勞動部 láo dòng bù - Ministry of Labor 公務員 gōng wù yuán - civil servant, public official 遭受 zāo shòu - to suffer, to endure 輕生 qīng shēng - to commit suicide, to take one's own life 震驚 zhèn jīng - shocked, astonished 持續性 chí xù xìng - continuity, persistent nature 對待 duì dài - to treat, to deal with 冷言冷語 lěng yán lěng yǔ - cold remarks, unkind words 語帶嘲諷 yǔ dài cháo fèng - sarcastic tone, mocking language 羞辱 xiū rǔ - to humiliate, to shame 排擠 pái jǐ - to exclude, to ostracize 承受 chéng shòu - to bear, to endure 精神上 jīng shén shàng - mentally, psychologically 虐待 nüè dài - abuse, mistreatment 性別平等工作法 xìng bié píng děng gōng zuò fǎ - Gender Equality in Employment Act 勞動基準法 láo dòng jī zhǔn fǎ - Labor Standards Act 規範 guī fàn - regulation, standard 起訴 qǐ sù - to prosecute, to file a lawsuit 學姐制 xué jiě zhì - seniority-based hierarchy, "senior-junior" system (female) 討好 tǎo hǎo - to flatter, to seek favor 航空公司 háng kōng gōng sī - airline company 檢舉 jiǎn jǔ - to report, to file a complaint 調查 diào chá - investigation, inquiry 機制 jī zhì - mechanism, system 匿名 nì míng - anonymous, anonymously If your New Year's goal is to improve your Chinese, meet more Taiwanese friends, and discuss a variety of topics like politics, culture, war, news, economics, and more! I invite you to book a one-on-one trial lesson with me

In this first episode of our workplace bullying series, we dive into the subtle and overt behaviors that create toxic environments, explore the psychological impact on employees, and discuss strategies for fostering a culture of respect and accountability.

Send us a textThis podcast episode originally aired on January 30th of this year. Workplace abuse is an important subject which warrants another listen.  In the episode Lou and Teresa speak with Vicki Courtemanche, Co-founder of the national advocacy group, End Workplace Abuse. Vicki has worked tirelessly to see legislation passed (the Workplace Pyschological Safety Act) to combat bullying in the workplace. Currently, millions of American workers are at risk. Listen in to learn more and to see how you can support efforts to end bullying in the workplace. Find more information at Ms. Courtemanche's website: https://endworkplaceabuse.com/Read this week's REPEAT blog post: https://www.earringsoff.com/post/mrs-obama-is-right Marketing and Social Media Strategist:   Tyresa Oluyide Theme song:                                                               D-Techneekz Logo Design:                                                               Claire Ritter Producers:                                                                   Lou Ali and Teresa VaughanSupport the show Support the show

Patricia Murray, Workplace psychologist, previously with the Health and Safety Authority.

Where do you draw the line between work and play when it comes to office friendships? It's hard to make friends as adults, so it's no wonder we get excited when we discover a coworker we genuinely click with. Lots of research supports the benefits of workplace friendships. These relationships are key to job success, and employees with work friends are more likely to get engaged and innovate, be more productive, and genuinely enjoy their time. Most of us know that making friends at work also comes with unique challenges, and keeping those potential pitfalls in mind can help you build deeper friendships that last while also keeping your career on track. In this episode, I cover some issues that could crop up and explore how we can navigate them as we nurture those cherished office friendships.Check out these helpful tips for making the most of your workplace friendships:Two tips to keep your work friendships working;The research on the shifting power dynamics of being friends with your boss;How to maintain your integrity and your friendships as a leader, for the sake of your team, your organization, and your career.Related Links:Episode 329, Female Friendships: Why We Need Them and How to Keep Them - https://www.bossedup.org/podcast/episode329Episode 458, Establishing Your Personal and Professional Network in a New City - https://www.bossedup.org/podcast/episode458Stuff Mom Never Told You Episode 105, Can We Be Friends? - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-stuff-mom-never-told-you-21123631/episode/can-we-be-friends-30231271/That Moment When One Friend Is Promoted—And The Other Is Not, Forbes - https://www.forbes.com/sites/markcperna/2020/07/01/that-moment-when-one-friend-is-promoted-and-the-other-is-not/Does Organizational Cronyism Lead to Lower Employee Performance?, Frontiers in Psychology - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7566910/Cronyism and Nepotism Are Bad for Everyone: The Research Evidence, Cambridge University - https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/industrial-and-organizational-psychology/article/abs/cronyism-and-nepotism-are-bad-for-everyone-the-research-evidence/7EED4D042812470B60D0312008DBA438Workplace Friendships: the Double-Edged Sword, London School of Economics - https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2023/02/13/workplace-friendships-the-double-edged-sword/What to Do When You Become Your Friend's Boss, Harvard Business Review - https://hbr.org/2020/09/what-to-do-when-you-become-your-friends-bossFriends Without Benefits: Understanding the Dark Sides of Workplace Friendship, Academy of Management Review - https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julianna-Pillemer/publication/323220675_Friends_Without_Benefits_Understanding_the_Dark_Sides_of_Workplace_Friendship/links/5b79f5cb4585151fd121920c/Friends-Without-Benefits-Understanding-the-Dark-Sides-of-Workplace-Friendship.pdfThe Limits To Workplace Friendship: Managerialist HRM and Bystander Behaviour In the Context of Workplace Bullying, APA Psych Net - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-09564-005Gossip in Evolutionary Perspective, Review of General Psychology - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1037/1089-2680.8.2.100Are Workplace Friendships a Mixed Blessing? Exploring Tradeoffs of Multiplex Relationships and their Associations with Job Performance, Personnel Psychology - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/peps.12109Social Undermining in the Workplace, Academy of Management Journal - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257307370_Social_Undermining_in_the_WorkplaceCrossing The Line: Boundaries of Workplace Humour and Fun, Employee Relations - https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/01425450910991749/full/html?casa_token=CIojz70WmukAAAAA:3I1KGNeHRpiD8ugwn0KmCazvPn3zWPniNAUtGyOp_2F4xkU83TE-1u0c8-c3XKM63LealAcq7FBud5toouq88q6U2ehi3_m_iVitDbj1wZ0yDlbP0UD3Why work friendships are critical for long-term happiness, CNBC - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/13/why-work-friendships-are-critical-for-long-term-happiness.htmlShould You Be Friends With Your Boss?, Forbes - https://www.forbes.com/sites/juliawuench/2021/09/06/should-you-be-friends-with-your-boss/The Increasing Importance of a Best Friend at Work - https://www.gallup.com/workplace/397058/increasing-importance-best-friend-work.aspxFrom BFF to Your Boss, ResumeLab - https://resumelab.com/career-advice/from-friend-to-bossLEVEL UP: a Leadership Accelerator for Women on the Rise - https://www.bossedup.org/levelupBossed Up Courage Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/927776673968737/Bossed Up LinkedIn Group - https://www.linkedin.com/groups/7071888/

We talk apologies from senior government officials regarding workplace bullying, lawyers taking to the streets, questions over cryptocurrency taxation and more. -- Hosting provided by SoundOn

Welcome to the Personal Development Trailblazers Podcast! In this episode, we'll explore the SMART method that can turn your dreams into reality. No more vague resolutions, just clear, actionable steps that lead to success. Dr. Deitra C. Payne has always been passionate about education and has dedicated over 14 years as an educator.  In late 2024, Dr. Payne chose to follow her entrepreneurial dream by founding Fabulous Coaching, Training, and Productions, LLC.  She helps clients achieve their dreams through personalized one-on-one and group coaching.  Her business also serves corporate clients, offering transformative training programs designed to foster growth and success. Dr. Payne has presented at numerous professional organizations, including CUPA-HR and various state chapters of the Society of Human Resource Management (SHRM).  Her work, Broken: The Harmful Effects of Workplace Bullying, earned her the Distinguished Paper Award at the 2015 Mustang Journal International Academic Conference.  She also delivered a presentation at the University of New Mexico mentoring conference titled, Enriching the Lives of Students: A Strategy that Develops and Empowers Through Mentoring.  Dr. Payne also presented at the Greenville SHRM Diversity Workshop on the topic, We All Matter: Embracing Diversity and Fostering an Inclusive Multicultural Workplace. Dr. Payne is also a motivational speaker who inspires and uplifts her audiences.  She organizes, hosts, and speaks at webinars, seminars, and retreats on a range of topics, including, overcoming adversity, goal setting/planning, embracing YOU, discussing one's purpose, gratitude, and living happily.  Additionally, she is an author who believes in uplifting, empowering, motivating, and empowering others. Connect with Deitra here:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-deitra-c-payne/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/deitra.payne.1/ Website: www.fabulousctp.com Grab the freebie here: www.fabulousctp.com/dreamoffer =================================== If you enjoyed this episode, remember to hit the like button and subscribe. Then share this episode with your friends. Thanks for watching the Personal Development Trailblazers Podcast. This podcast is part of the Digital Trailblazer family of podcasts. To learn more about Digital Trailblazer and what we do to help entrepreneurs, go to DigitalTrailblazer.com. Are you a coach, consultant, expert, or online course creator? Then we'd love to invite you to our FREE Facebook Group where you can learn the best strategies to land more high-ticket clients and customers.  Request to join here:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/profitablecoursecreators QUICK LINKS:  APPLY TO BE FEATURED: https://app.digitaltrailblazer.com/podcast-guest-application GET MORE CLIENTS: https://app.digitaltrailblazer.com/client-acquisition-accelerator-pdf DIGITAL TRAILBLAZER: https://digitaltrailblazer.com/ JOIN OUR FREE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/profitablecoursecreators

We had the pleasure of sitting down with Omar, author and secondary school teacher, for an honest and open chat about his experience of workplace bullying in a toxic school. Omar candidly talks about his experience as a younger teacher and the pressure toxic SLT put on staff to work themselves to the bone, and in some cases, CHEAT their way to better scores. You can follow Omar here: https://x.com/unofficialoa?lang=en Omar's podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/5liz0H9ui4voyiK4qBWR5S?si=NETGTpiMSHe4Bn7wD2dkcQ&nd=1&dlsi=44256ac47a2d404c Omar's books: https://www.amazon.com/official-Teachers-Manual-Teach-Training-ebook/dp/B071YXP9XR/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.IMtvi36YYuNSjD0LxeGbakFtH_fA1cRdO0jWAPF06lk0V2z_a3s1UlQ19lSA4IzGjZCrRAAzD3me4GF_EnxB_aRBldZ7sJrCxrqQsxLrRvk702zazZaLQeCoHpFfxysHJ8omJfVQyOEmNNj38gUX6Q.ZI1Q-hUaAHMrvACBILV5yvo_-D2E0aiYCNcUrarnYiI&dib_tag=se&keywords=unofficial+teacher+manual&qid=1731267393&sr=8-1

Dr Phil spoke at Madison Square Garden saying Trump wasnt a bully. Ha! Professor Yamada is an internationally recognized authority on workplace bullying. He is a professor of law and the director of the New Workplace Institute at Suffolk University Law School in Boston. It is the primary drafter of model workplace anti-bullying legislation known as the Healthy Workplace Bill, which is serving as a template for law reform efforts in the U.S. He also is the founding board chairperson of the International Society for Therapeutic Jurisprudence, which promotes the application and design of laws, legal procedures, and legal institutions that support psychological health and well-being. Professor Yamada identifies former President Donald Trump as being a classic workplace bully, constantly resorting to ridicule, name-calling, and cruel putdowns in his public and private behavior. These actions are consistent with some of the worst types of workplace bullying. Drawing from the DSM-V, Trump's behaviors are often called “cluster B” traits or behaviors. Cluster B includes narcissism, sociopathy, emotional dysregulation, impulsivity, and attention-seeking. It is no wonder that 40 out of 44 former insiders from the Trump White House have now come out in favor of Kamala Harris. The idea of well-being is central to Professor Yamada's work and the backbone of our discussion in this episode. Professor Yamada's current work examines how the law, public policy, and dispute resolution procedures can be designed to be more trauma-informed, enhancing the well-being of those impacted by law and public policies. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oAmU7E1zaycPovorrPQ4JJmBtwl_RgRy/view?usp=drive_link Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Why Care?, host Nadia Nagamootoo sits down with Claire Collins, a coach and Henley Business School Professor of Leadership, to discuss the impact of toxic work environments. Claire shares her journey from a biomedical career to becoming a law firm chief executive and, following a highly successful academic career, finding her purpose in coaching professionals who are dealing with workplace bullying. This conversation delves into identifying toxic behaviours, understanding the effects of gaslighting, and building resilience. Claire provides invaluable insights into navigating such environments, regaining confidence, and fostering better organisational cultures for all. Key Takeaways Claire's journey emphasises the importance of resilience and seeking support when faced with workplace bullying. Coaching can empower individuals to either confront toxic environments confidently or transition out with self-worth intact. Building resilience requires understanding gaslighting and developing personal strategies to counteract it. Organisations play a vital role in preventing toxicity and supporting employees in challenging situations. Clear policies, strong leadership, and allyship are essential in creating inclusive and safe work environments. Providing tools and training to help leaders recognise and prevent exclusionary behaviours is crucial for fostering positive culture. Highlights: Claire's Diverse Career Journey: From biomedical science to coaching, Claire's story is one of resilience and reinvention, shaped by her own experiences in challenging work environments. Understanding Toxic Leadership: Claire discusses how toxic leadership can manifest, from overt bullying to more subtle forms like gaslighting and undermining. Building Resilience Against Gaslighting: Claire explains how individuals can recognise and counteract gaslighting tactics, building up their confidence and reclaiming their personal power. Coaching Through Trauma and Toxicity: Learn about Claire's mission to help professionals in toxic workplaces either stand up to their environments or leave with their self-worth intact. Supporting Marginalised Groups in the Workplace: Claire emphasises the need for inclusive policies and advocates for allyship, especially for those facing unique challenges, such as returning mothers and part-time workers. Long-term Effects of Workplace Bullying: Claire sheds light on the neurological and psychological impact of bullying and gaslighting, which can sometimes lead to trauma and PTSD-like symptoms. Guest Bio Claire Collins is a Professor of Leadership at Henley Business School, University of Reading, and a coach specialising in supporting professionals facing toxic work environments. With a diverse background spanning biomedical science, law firm leadership, and academia, Claire brings a wealth of experience and insight to her coaching practice. She is deeply committed to helping individuals regain their confidence, navigate workplace bullying, and build resilience. Claire's current work focuses on empowering those in toxic environments and advocating for supportive organisational cultures. Links Clair Collins: LinkedIn | Website Nadia Nagamootoo: LinkedIn | Instagram Avenir Consulting: https://linktr.ee/avenirconsultingservices

124. Breaking the Cycle: Confronting Workplace Bullying in Healthcare with Katie Belski The healthcare environment is already a stressful one with a fast pace, constantly shifting priorities and emergent needs, and demands of consistent excellence. But this environment gets even more challenging when there is one or more workplace bullies in our midst. On this episode, they speak to Katie Belski, a long-time professional of the healthcare field working in positions like Quality, IP, and Sterile Processing to hear her thoughts on why these bullies are so prevalent, the impact of them, both mental and financial, and how we can start to fix a toxic workplace culture. Find all of our network podcasts on your favorite podcast platforms and be sure to subscribe and like us. Learn more at www.healthcarenowradio.com/listen

Send us a textThis week, Saloni Surah has a terrifying story to share with us. She is a doctor specializing in HIV and sexual health, with a PhD on HIV and drug use. Saloni had a very bad workplace bullying experience, which has left her with undiagnosed PTSD. On top of that, someone wrote anonynmous letters saying some very damaging things, and sent them to people in her close circle! The repurcussions were awful, she was scared, lost confidence, and began to isolate. Eventuallyt, she moved country when pregnant as she didn't feel safe and to add, no one took the stalking seriously and she was gaslit at her workplace! As a result, Saloni ended up with birth trauma. She became very unwell after her eldest child was born and finally found a diagnosis and treatment for her PTSD. As with all our stories, we focus on the journey! Saloni recovered, had another child, got her birth trauma treated and published her first book. Join us for a rollercoaster ride of an episode!Site: https://salonisurah.com/Support the show

The healthcare environment is already a stressful one with a fast pace, constantly shifting priorities and emergent needs, and demands of consistent excellence.  But this environment gets even more challenging when there is one or more workplace bullies in our midst.  In this episode, we speak to Katie Belski, a long-time professional of the healthcare field working in positions like Quality, IP, and Sterile Processing to hear her thoughts on why these bullies are so prevalent, the impact of them, both mental and financial, and how we can start to fix a toxic workplace culture.

Does your workplace feel like a battleground at times? Have you been told to just toughen up and deal with it? The pain of workplace bullying can be isolating and damaging to your mental health, leaving you feeling trapped and powerless. If you're tired of feeling this way, it's time to find a better solution to address workplace bullying effectively. Let's explore how you can foster a culture of trust and openness in your teams to prevent workplace bullying and create a psychologically safe environment where everyone can thrive. In this episode, you will be able to: Understand how to prevent workplace bullying with psychological safety. Discover the effects of workplace bullying on mental health. Learn how to cultivate psychological safety in teams. Find out effective ways to address bullying in the workplace. Explore the crucial role of leadership in fostering workplace safety. "Teams with high psychological safety are not only more innovative and productive, but they also create a workplace where bullying is less likely to occur." - Lori Adams-Brown Lori Adams Brown, a seasoned professional with a wealth of experience in leadership development, has a personal connection to the issue of workplace bullying. Having been a target of workplace abuse herself, Lori knows firsthand the transformative power of psychological safety. Her journey through overcoming hard challenges and finding healing has fueled her passion for preventing and addressing workplace bullying. She has dived deep into research and personal stories of targets of workplace bullying to understand how psychological safety can play a pivotal role in creating a work environment that not only prevents bullying but also fosters trust and openness. Through her personal experiences and extensive insights, Lori is dedicated to sharing tools and knowledge, not only to help those who have been targets of workplace bullying but also to empower managers and leaders to cultivate psychologically safe teams. Her narrative-style approach evokes a sense of relatability, resonating with the emotions and experiences of her audience, making her an authentic and credible voice in fostering a culture of trust and openness in teams. She shares quick tips from the research and books she has studied as well as the patterns from the qualitative research from stories of targets themselves in order to help anyone wanting to prevent workplace bullying by recognizing the red flags and cultivating an work culture where bullying is prevented and quickly stopped. Learn how to: 1. Build a culture of trust 2. Enhance mental well-being 3. Foster psychological safety The key moments in this episode are: 00:05:21 - Understanding Workplace Bullying 00:09:47 - Psychological Safety and Bullying Prevention 00:12:27 - Creating a Psychologically Safe Environment 00:14:30 - Creating a Culture of Acceptance and Feedback 00:15:28 - Swiftly Addressing Bullying 00:17:31 - Promoting Inclusivity and Respect Resources: EPS on spiritual abuse EPS with grounding techniques with Dr. Debbie Pinkston 1. Google's Project Aristotle 2. Amy Edmondson's Work on Psychological Safety   3. The Bully at Work 4. Workplace Bullying Institute 5. The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson 6. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) 7. HBR 15 types of bullying Subscribe to the podcast to never miss an episode. Leave a rating for the podcast. Ratings help others discover the podcast and make a significant impact. Leave a review for the podcast. Reviews also help others find the podcast and contribute to its visibility. Share the podcast. Stay connected: https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/aworldofdifference/ https://www.twitter.com/@awodpod https://www.youtube.com/@aworldofdifference https://www.facebook.com/A-World-of-Difference-613933132591673/ https://www.instagram.com/aworldof.difference https://www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Navigating and Transforming Toxic Workplace Cultures E43 In a recent episode of the Culture Crush Business podcast hosted by Kindra Maples, Catherine Mattice, CEO of Civility Partners, and Danielle Pener, Principal Attorney at Alta Employment Law Workplace Investigations, collaborated to illuminate the intricate dynamics of tackling toxic workplace cultures. Throughout their engaging dialogue, Catherine and […]

Navigating and Transforming Toxic Workplace Cultures E43 In a recent episode of the Culture Crush Business podcast hosted by Kindra Maples, Catherine Mattice, CEO of Civility Partners, and Danielle Pener, Principal Attorney at Alta Employment Law Workplace Investigations, collaborated to illuminate the intricate dynamics of tackling toxic workplace cultures. Throughout their engaging dialogue, Catherine and […] The post Navigating and Transforming Toxic Workplace Cultures E43 appeared first on Business RadioX ®.

THE BEST BITS IN A SILLIER PACKAGE (from Wednesday's Mike Hosking Breakfast) What if We Just Stopped Counting?/Not All of Us Find Interest Interesting/They've Been Doing it SInce Hitler/All Blacks Fireworks/Doing Some BullyingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bullying is a serious issue regarding of where it's happening. Many think that it is the stuff of schoolyards and childhood playgrounds, however, bullying is a very real part of some workplace experiences. This episode looks at the serious issue of workplace bullying, its various forms, and the significant impact it has on both individuals and organizations. Furthermore, this episode encourages organizations to be proactive with preventative measures, such as creating zero-tolerance policies and implementing training programs, and providing support options for victims. Tune in to learn more.  Check out Stress-Free With Dr G on YouTubehttps://youtube.com/channel/UCxHq0osRest0BqQQRXfdjiQ The Stress Solution: Your Blueprint For Stress Management Masteryhttps://a.co/d/07xAdo7l 

Have you ever felt crushed by relentless bullying or trapped in the throes of addiction? In today's episode, we dive into the profound impact of bullying, the struggle with addiction, and the transformative power of resiliency.Who Is This For? Almost Everyone!Bullying isn't just a childhood problem; it persists into adulthood, affecting many in the workplace and social circles. Addiction, too, can take many forms, disrupting lives and relationships. This episode addresses these issues head-on, providing insights and inspiration to help listeners overcome their own challenges and build resilience.What's It Really All About?In this powerful episode, host Kevin Lowe takes inspiration from his recent interview with Marcy Langlois, a woman who faced severe bullying and battled addiction from a young age. Born with a cleft lip and palate, Marcy endured numerous surgeries and relentless bullying. Despite these challenges, she developed the resilience to rise above her circumstances. This episode delves into the key aspects of bullying, addiction, and resilience, offering hope and inspiration to anyone facing similar struggles.Episode At a Glance:Understanding Bullying: Learn how bullying extends beyond childhood, affecting adults in various environments, and discover strategies to stand up against it.Overcoming Addiction: Gain insights into different forms of addiction and find encouragement from Marcy's journey to sobriety and recovery.Building Resiliency: Discover the inner strength we all possess to bounce back from life's toughest challenges and become more resilient.It's a Conversation You Won't Want to MissIf Marcy can do it, then why can't you? Click PLAY on today's episode and set yourself up for success in pursuit of becoming your best self and living your best life!Mentioned Links & ResourcesCLICK to Grab Your FREE Coaching Call with Kevin LoweCLICK HERE to listen to Marcy Langlois' Interview inside of Episode #306ALL THE WAYS WE CAN CONNECTGET IN TOUCHPODCAST HOST: KEVIN LOWESchedule a Call with KevinVisit Our WebsiteBecome a Grit, Grace, & Inspiration InsiderFollow Kevin's LinkedIn NewsletterSEND KEVIN A VOICE MESSAGEGuided by Faith. Inspired by life itself.© 2024 Grit, Grace, & Inspiration

Guest post by Anna Eliatamby is Director of Healthy Leadership, CIC and co-author with Grazia Lomonte of Healing-Self Care for Leaders and their Teams, out now and available on Amazon Organisations, regardless of size, are fragile social systems of people and the accompanying relationships. The culture is the collective social system and equally delicate. Just the presence of one bully can disrupt the social system and the culture. Clearly, when more than one person, or worse, a group, torments others, the impact of bullying is significantly amplified. Why you need to address workplace bullying The bottom line Regardless of how organizations define their bottom line - from financial to social and environmental - it is affected by negative behaviours. The American Psychological Association estimated the cost of bullying to be near $300 billion. The National University of Ireland, Galway estimated that the cost to the national economy of Ireland is 239 million euros per year. And workplace bullying causes the loss of 1.7 million days of work. There are many other effects of tolerating bullying. When people experience bullying or witness it, they are affected. They will have high levels of stress and fear, waiting for that next moment or comment. Their ability to focus and concentrate, think clearly and make good decisions deteriorates. They lose self-esteem and motivation and energy. This then affects their ability to be productive and even creative. They will not feel loyal to the organisation. Some will become more vulnerable to mental health problems, such as higher levels of anxiety and depression. Physical health can be affected. As people's health deteriorates, the cost to the organisation's health insurance will increase. People will spend time and effort avoiding the bully or bullies. Or not work so hard, just doing the bare minimum. Presenteeism increases. People can spend more than half their time focussed, not on work but on avoidance or seeking support or looking for other jobs. As people leave because of the bullying and associated negativity, then the costs of recruitment increase. It can take nine months of a salary to recruit into a position. Reputational damage can occur, especially if an employee takes legal action. When this happens, the company will incur legal costs. Bullying Is ongoing and repeated. And includes behaviours that are harmful from banter to sidelining, withholding key information, abusing power and to more significant acts such as physical aggression. It can be direct or indirect. For example, a group of individuals would deliberately falsify information about a manager and then ensure that they could not carry out their tasks. Humiliation is often the aim. Anyone has the propensity to bully, except that most of us choose not to. Bullies can be insecure, have experienced bullying themselves, lack management expertise, and not know what else to do. They may want to gain power and authority to feel in control. Often, they continue their bullying because no one will address their actions and help them change. Tacit reinforcement. Those who are bullied often possess competence and ability, but they may lack self-confidence or appear vulnerable. Bullies sense this and exploit it. The perpetrators often are emotionally intelligent but choose to misuse this skill. Reclaiming the bottom line Starts with admitting the presence of bullying behaviour. Acknowledging its deleterious impact and then deciding to act to address it, beyond gathering data on its incidence. This will take courage as most will avoid doing something because it is frightening, and they feel they lack the skills or ability. However, if you decide to act, then you learn that you already possess the people skills and fortitude to act. It also requires persistence because the bullies won't believe your intentions at first. Ensure that the message is clear to one and all. It is time for healthy, decent and supportive relationships, e...

Dr. Boyce Watkins is a renowned finance expert and founder of The Black Business School, where he has empowered millions to build wealth and invest wisely. As a Finance PhD and author of "The 10 Commandments of Black Economic Power," he dedicates his life to teaching financial literacy and economic empowerment. Dr. Watkins shares his expertise through daily lessons, courses, and his popular podcast, helping individuals and families achieve financial independence. Featured in major media outlets, he is a trusted voice in the world of finance. Discover more at [BoyceWatkins.com](http://BoyceWatkins.com).

Workplace bullying is a pressing issue that many organizations face today. Are you aware of how it impacts your team and the broader company culture? In this episode, we explore the critical nature of workplace bullying and its effects on employee well-being and organizational health. our host and CEO, Porschia, along with our guest, Catherine Mattice, discusses various manifestations of bullying, from aggressive communications to subtle manipulations, and emphasizes the importance of recognizing and addressing these behaviors promptly. You will gain insights into effective strategies for fostering a respectful and inclusive workplace culture that actively discourages bullying. The episode also highlights practical steps organizations can take to support their employees and maintain a positive work environment. Click here for full show notes and to learn more:  Whether you're an employee or an entrepreneur, it's important to address obstacles that stop you from reaching your goals. Check out our FREE Kick-Start Your Success Course: https://fly-high-coaching.thinkific.com/courses/kick-start-your-success-course   --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fly-high-coaching/support

    Clement Manyathela speaks to Dr Ngao Metsei, an Author and Independent Leader about what workplace bullying looks like and what kind of workplace leadership allows for bullying to continue unabated. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"I'll be the judge of that!" Toxic workplaces can be caused by toxic people who engage in abusive behavior, ranging from yelling and humiliation to berating and bullying. Many organizations struggle to understand and handle complaints of abusive behavior, often ignoring them or not recognizing the seriousness of the issue. Workplace bullies are often manipulative and can even manipulate human resources to avoid being held accountable for their abusive behavior. Uncovering workplace bullying and abuse can be difficult, as some employees may claim abuse when there is none. Chaos, confusion, and fear among employees are some of the signs of a bullying environment. Conducting authentic conversations with victims of workplace bullying during training sessions can help to raise awareness and prevent such behavior from occurring. It is important to seek legal advice from a lawyer in your state if you are facing a toxic workplace environment. The Job Judge Podcast is a podcast for anyone who works. This is not legal advice! Engaging and informative, it's a must-listen/watch for any manager, business owner, HR professional, or anyone who works. Relying on three decades of experience as an employment law attorney and HR Executive, Karen Michael uses real case studies in the news and navigates through the legal landmines and workplace dysfunction that we know is probably happening right now in your organization.

What can you do about the bully at work? Join Dr. Mona Lisa as she teaches you the mind-body, medical intuitive solutions on how to keep your wits about you when someone around you has a bad attitude and equally poor behavior.  Join the podcast studio audience every WED 4PM ET/1PM PT . To find out how to join the show with your question or comment please go to Dr. Mona Lisa's Fan Page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/MonaLisaSchulz  and follow her on Instagram @drmonalisa1 to get the Zoom link for the podcast taping.   During the show, you may even get through on the reading line (207 846 6475) for a free mini-reading. Can't listen LIVE? Listen on PODCAST: Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music and wherever you get your podcasts. Dr. Mona Lisa's Private Readings  https://www.drmonalisa.com/private-reading-request Dr. Mona Lisa's Annual Medical Intuition Certificate Training Class https://www.drmonalisa.com/events  ***Readings are educational only and are not intended to provide a physician-patient relationship, give diagnoses, prescribe treatment or do psychotherapy. Please contact your health care provider to obtain treatment. If you are in an emergency, please go to your nearest emergency room.*** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Navigating toxic workplaces is something I coach on every week in my practice. Gaining the skills and insights to deal with bullying and unhealthy work cultures is essential for you to negotiate the uneven and sometimes rough terrain of your career journey. In this episode, I'm interviewing two experts featured in the Harvard Business Review Guide to Navigating the Toxic Workplace. Organizational psychologist Ludmila Praslaova and executive coach Caroline Stokes discuss the root causes of bullying behavior and offer strategies for both organizations and individuals to address toxic work cultures. They provide insights from decades of research and coaching experience on improving communication, building allies, and advocating for change. What you'll learn: Workplace bullying is a common problem that negatively impacts career growth and mental health Bullying often stems from insecurity and a lack of understanding between colleagues (across) or from either a direct report (up) or supervisor (down)Marginalized groups are more vulnerable to bullying due to power dynamicsWhy it's important to trust your intuition and how to do it if something feels wrong at workWhy, in addition to individual self-care, organizations need to take responsibility for creating healthy cultures How gender plays a role in workplace bullying, with men more likely to bully both men and womenHow to apply the "vote for yourself and vote with your feet" principle The why of building allies and documenting incidents to address bullyingFeatured in this episode: Caroline Stokes is an Executive Coach for Start-up Cultures and Fortune 500 Leaders. Check out her book: Elephane Before Unicorns: Emotionally Intelligent Strategies to Save Your Company Caroline's LinkedIn and website Ludmila N. Praslova, Ph.D., is the author of The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work. She's also a professor of Graduate Industrial-Organizational Psychology at Vanguard University of Southern California. She is a member of the Thinkers 50 Radar Class of 2024 – a global group of management thinkers most likely make an impact on the world.Ludmila's LinkedIn NEW! Come on over to JamieLeeCoach.com to get your custom tips and scripts based on your leadership archetype. Enjoy the show? Don't miss an episode, listen and subscribe via Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Leave me a review in Apple Podcasts. Connect with me **You want to get promoted and better paid with best tools possible. That's what I offer inside my Executive Coaching Series, and you can learn all about it here: https://www.jamieleecoach.com/apply ** Connect with me on LinkedIn Email me at jamie@jamieleecoach.com

Shola Richards' life's mission is an ambitious one: To end generations of professional suffering, simply by changing how we treat each other at work. An advocate for positive change, Shola addresses the often-ignored issue of workplace bullying by highlighting its impact on trust, communication, and company resources. With a focus on unveiling the cost of toxic behaviors, Shola offers practical solutions for creating healthier work environments. At his core, Shola is an advocate and humanitarian, guiding us back to our shared humanity. Shola shares his insights as a speaker, coach, consultant, and author. His work includes the best-selling books Go Together and Making Work Work, with a third booking coming out in late 2024.   I met Shola a year ago at an incredible NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) workshop. I immediately gravitated toward his genuine warmth and openness. Shola is a remarkable human-being, making a huge impact. In this episode, we discuss: ●      The transformative power of sharing mental health stories ●      The importance of practicing civility in modern-day discourse ●      The often-overlooked distinction between being nice and being kind Key Takeaways: ●      Embracing Ubuntu: "I Am Because We Are". Imagine a world where we live by the profound ethos of ubuntu, an African philosophy that teaches, "I am because we are." This philosophy illuminates our inherent interconnectedness. It suggests that our humanity is inextricably linked to the humanity of others, and that our personal well-being is anchored in the collective well-being of society. Shola's exploration of ubuntu in Go Together suggests that adopting this worldview could revolutionize our approach to life, work, and leadership. Ultimately, transforming the world around us. ●      Cultivating Culture: A Collective Responsibility. We are all collectively responsible for the culture we live in, the culture we work in, and the culture we're passing down to the next generation. Simply put, culture is just a collection of the norms we accept, or no longer accept. Culture is powerful because it permeates everything. Seeping into how we behave, how we view the world, and how we view ourselves. What we have compassion for and what we judge. What cultural norms don't feel right to you? When have you felt like you had to “play the game” when your insides were boiling or crumbling? What if, next time you felt that way, you took a deep breath and said “That didn't sit well with me. Can you please explain what you meant?”. This could invite a courageous dialogue that might just help pave the road to a better culture. ●      Protecting the Heart of the Workplace: Listening to the Empaths. In environments that feel cold and disconnected, those most in touch with their humanity—the empaths—feel the impact most sharply. They are the canary in the coal mine, alerting us to psychological hazards that lurk within toxic cultures. For leaders, the call to action is clear: listen and respond. Ignoring toxic behaviors erodes morale, diminishes trust in leadership, and questions the organizational commitment to employee well-being. Remember, your employees are building your company's future. Their success is your success. As leaders, it's your job to foster a nurturing environment where every team member can thrive, innovate, and excel.  References: ●      Connect with Shola on LinkedIn ●      Shola's website ●      Books by Shola: ○      Making Work Work: The Solution for Bringing Positive Change to Any Work Environment ○      Go Together: How the Concept of Ubuntu will Change How We Work, Live and Lead ●      Keep an eye out for Shola's next book due out September 2024 ○      Civil Unity: The Radical Path to Transform Our Discourse, Our Lives, and Our World  Connect & Share: If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading them!  If this episode resonated with you, I ask you to send it to a friend. Help bring even more visibility to these leaders that are using business as a force for good! Subscribe to the Purpose and Profit newsletter to make sure you don't miss future episodes.  This podcast is for you, the listener. I'd love to hear what resonated with you, or if you have a suggestion on who would be a great guest for this show. Please send me a note at info@KathyVarol.com.

Today Lou and Teresa speak with Vicki Courtemanche, Co-founder of the national advocacy group, End Workplace Abuse. Vicki has worked tirelessly to see legislation passed (the Workplace Pyschological Safety Act) to combat bullying in the workplace. Currently, millions of American workers are at risk. Listen in to learn more and to see how you can support this initiative. Ms. Courtemanche's website: https://endworkplaceabuse.com/Read this weeks blog post: https://www.earringsoff.com/post/no-more-gray Marketing and Social Media Strategist:   Tyresa Oluyide Theme song:                                                               D-Techneekz Logo Design:                                                               Claire Ritter Producers:                                                                   Lou Ali and Teresa VaughanSupport the show

The untimely death of Antoinette “Bonnie” Candia-Bailey and allegations of mistreatment while serving as Lincoln University's vice president of student affairs has sparked conversation about hostile work environments and bullying across industries — particularly with employees that are part of marginalized communities. Wash U sociology professor Adia Harvey-Wingfield discusses research on who's most likely to face such situations and how to avoid further tragedy.

Powerful testimony & strategies on how to identify and combat workplace bullying & harassment.  If you are a returning citizen, an individual seeking second chance coaching through your reentry journey, or if you are a representative of a business, college or university seeking to integrate and/or support returning citizens in your organizational or learning environments, feel free to contact Dr. Louis at richard@secondchancecoaching.com or via Instagram at thedrrichardlouis Dr. Richard Louis is also available for speaking engagements and workshops related to criminal justice reentry, organizational culture, and leadership development and can be contacted at richard@secondchancecoaching.com Linked In: www.linkedin.com/in/richardlouis Club House: @drrichardlouis X/Twitter: therichardlouis

Bullying in the workplace is often invisible, but it doesn't have to be. Gain valuable insights and strategies to combat workplace bullying. In this episode of the HR Mixtape, host Shari Simpson is joined by Joy Toney and Tawana Gardner, both from AIM for Change LLC. They discuss the subtle forms of workplace bullying that even seasoned HR professionals might miss. Joy and Tawana share their insights and expertise on this important topic. Don't miss this thought-provoking conversation. Guest(s): Joy Toney (Senior Program Consultant) and Tawana Gardner (Principal Consultant) at AIM for Change, LLC 

Are you dealing with workplace bullying? You don't have to face it alone! Join Rebecca Zung, as she shares 10 empowering strategies to help you stand up to bullies and reclaim your power. Don't suffer the hurt any longer. Get the tools you need to combat workplace bullying with Rebecca Zung today! ____________________________________________________________________ Check out my FREE Live webinar, the 3 MUST HAVE Secrets to Communicating with Narcissists RIGHT HERE Learn more about the SLAY Your Negotiation with Narcissists program right here:  www.rebeccazung.com/slay Read the transcript of this episode right here. ____________________________________________________________________ For more information on REBECCA ZUNG, ESQ. visit her website www.rebeccazung.com and follow her on Instagram: @rebeccazung and YouTube!  GRAB YOUR FREE CRUSH MY NEGOTIATION PREP WORKSHEET RIGHT HERE!  SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL RIGHT HERE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guest Bios Show Transcript Part 2 of our eye-opening podcast on bullying, featuring the woman who blew the whistle on author and pastor, Dane Ortlund, is out! If you missed part one, you can find it here. In this podcast, Ortlund whistleblower, Emily Hyland, describes what she wishes she knew when she was being bullied that she knows now. And anti-bullying expert, Paul Coughlin, offers keen insights from his decades of experience, as well.  Coughlin, author of the best-selling, No More Christian Nice-Guy, and founder of The Protectors, reveals how bullies identify their targets. He also gives steps every person can take to stand up to them.  Meanwhile, Hyland explains how to educate yourself on bullies, but warns against trying to become an expert before taking action. She also shares important developments in her case against Ortlund, author of Gentle and Lowly. For anyone who has experienced bullying, or wants accountability for a bully, don't miss this podcast. You may even want to take notes! Guests Emily Hyland Emily Hyland earned her bachelors in Molecular Genetics and Biotechnology before working for the Office of Naval Research in Washington, DC. While there she received a MHSA in Management & Leadership from The George Washington University. She has worked with the US Army and the Office of the Surgeon General, Accenture, GE, and across finance, manufacturing, health services, and information technology. Recently, she was the Director of Operations at Naperville Presbyterian Church in suburban Illinois. She is married and has three children.  Paul Coughlin Paul Coughlin is an author, an international speaker and the founder and president of The Protectors, which is dedicated to helping schools, organizations and communities combat bullying. His books include No More Christian Nice Guy, Raising Bully-Proof Kids and 5 Secrets Great Dads Know. Paul and his wife, Sandy, reside in central Oregon and have three teenage children. Learn more about Paul and his organization at www.theprotectors.org. Show Transcript JULIE ROYS, PAUL COUGHLIN, EMILY HYLAND JULIE ROYS 00:03 How do you deal with bullying by a pastor or Christian employer? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys. And this is part two of a two-part podcast with bullying expert Paul Coughlin and whistleblower Emily Hyland. If you missed part one, I'd encourage you to go back now and listen to that. It was a fascinating discussion in which Emily gave new details about the alleged bullying and retaliation she received at the hands of Dane Ortlund. Dane is the pastor of Naperville Presbyterian Church in Naperville, Illinois. He's also the author of the bestselling book, Gentle and Lonely. But according to Emily, Dane is a bully. In Emily's case alleging retaliation by Dane and his church because she blew the whistle on Dane's bullying is now going to trial. And you'll hear about important developments in that case in this podcast. You'll also hear important insights on how to deal with bullies in a Christian workplace. And Emily will share what she wishes she knew back when she was being bullied that she knows now. I'm so looking forward to diving into the rest of my discussion with Emily and Paul Coughlin. But first I'd like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington if you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. We now return to part two of my discussion with Paul Coughlin and Emily Hyland. Specifically, Emily explains more of what she wishes she knew back when she was being bullied that she knows now. And one thing I've learned about Emily is that she doesn't do anything halfway. So, when she realized something wasn't right, she quickly devoured resources like author and advocate Wade Mullins' book by that title. But Emily urges that while it's important to find resources, victims shouldn't go overboard and get a PhD. We've kind of touched on this, you said find resources, but don't get a PhD on the subject. I'm guessing, just knowing a little bit about you, Emily, you like to master something before you move forward with it. And I'm guessing you couldn't do that. But you did a great job of informing yourself; talk about that process. EMILY HYLAND 03:08 There are so many more resources that are available in this moment than there were two and a half years ago. Coming right out of it, that book by Wade Mullen was the first I read because of the title, Something's Not Right. Like you're right, that is exactly describing it. I have to read that. And I went through, and I read Diane Langberg and Scot McKnight and Laura Behringer's book. I read Chuck DeGroote, I went through an entire podcast called Power Corrupts and have been increasingly able to articulate accurately what happened and that makes me feel more safe, that I am not speculating. I can say, in the fewest words possible, here's what happened, and the impacts and why it was wrong. That has helped in the legal sense is that I don't waste my time on the nebulous side of just thinking, well, what might have those pastors been thinking? I mean, I don't know what they were thinking, I don't know their hearts. A psychiatrist maybe could get at some of these things. I don't need to know those things. I just need to accurately know what was going on in my own mind, in my own heart. I think one resource that I value now is that I wish I'd had then was there was no ChatGPT two years ago, and I wasted a lot of words trying to get my point across. And people don't realize that when you're making an accusation about a pastor, you're making it against a professional communicator, somebody who is possibly way better with words than their victim. That was really hard. I had just too many words. And now ChatGPT has made a big difference just for me personally, to feel more confident in describing the situation. But I really don't think that you need to be 100% certain and able to write a dissertation on it to step forward and say, I've seen bullying behaviors. We need to tackle it now. But you've got to stand up and say something, whether it's on your behalf or the behalf of somebody else. Bullies need to be confronted to their face. You can't shove a book at them and say, read this; does it sound like you? You have to speak it out to people to say, this is an individual interpersonal matter. Books help to get you the right words, but you can't get around the fact that somebody, at some point, needs to bring it up to their face. JULIE ROYS 05:26 Hmm. And one thing if I could add to that, is give yourself some grace. Because I heard you say, like my own motives and my own. It's so hard when you're in the midst of this and you're angry, and you have a right to be angry, and you're hurt, and you have a right to be hurt. And in all that to be absolutely pristine in every attitude and thought, of course, you're not going to be. And I think people need to have some grace with themselves when they're walking through this. I remember once we were leaving a church and I said to somebody, oh, I just want to make sure that we don't sin. And he's like, No, you will, but try to minimize that. Just hearing that gave me I don't know, just kind of a relief that Okay, right. I'm human in this and don't have to be perfect. PAUL COUGHLIN 06:15 Julie, if I did add to that there's a great line by Shakespeare. And he says that some people are more sinned against than sinner. And that is how it is when it comes to bullying in the workplace in faith-centric organizations. What's interesting is that many people who are targets of bullying are nice people. And nice people will spend so much more time worrying about their behaviors than the person who is abusing them, harming them and their family. We really need to move away from that thinking. I also think that thinking is baked into the system as well, in the rhetoric used by many of our leaders for decades, into make us think that there is something fundamentally wrong with us, when we recognize this behavior in other people. We really need to move away from that, we need to stop being so nice, which is often a knee jerk reaction to people pleasing, it has nothing to do with the fruit of the spirit of kindness. Niceness is never mentioned in the Bible, for example, as an attribute of the Father, Son, or the Holy Spirit, it's not a fruit of the Spirit, and bullies in the workplace, particularly within the church faith-centric organizations, they use our niceness against us. It's one of the reasons why we're targeted. We don't use the word victim at the protectors very often, we prefer the word target, and here's why. You have been selected the bully in the workplace. The bully pastor has picked on some people but not other people. Why is that? Because a bully is not looking for a fight, they want to overwhelm another person. So, they look for the nice person, they look for the person for example, who lives by turning the other cheek. There is no more tortured scripture in the theater of bullying, then turn the other cheek. When you put it in context. It has to do with having a generous spirit. It has nothing to do with accepting abuse from another person. So, we really need to have these distinctions. Niceness is really not a virtue, it's actually a vice in disguise. It's often the sin of cowardice, Revelation 21:8, we need to get tougher and stronger. We need to speak the truth in love. We still need to be gracious. But we also need to be truthful. I love what Emily said, in that someone needs to speak to the bullies face that is so important. If I give one piece of advice. The sooner you stand up to a bully in the workplace in the church, the better your life is going to be. The sooner you do it, the better. JULIE ROYS 08:44 So good. And in that some of the weapons that are used commonly against the person who speaks up is the word gossip. And you're labeled gossip. I'm guessing, Emily, that happened to you? I don't know. But did you find that parsing out what gossip is and understanding and distinguishing between that and what you were doing, was that an important step for you? EMILY HYLAND 09:10 The verbiage was because I wasn't talking to people about what was going on. And I regret caring about somebody's reputation more than the harm they were causing people. Gossip is a hard concept in the church because a church is like a proxy for family not having family in the area. And so, I want people to know what's going on in my life. I want to know what other people's is going on, how can I care for somebody or support somebody if I'm really not knowing what's going on? But then there's that sinful gossip of self-serving prideful nitpicking rumor spreading,. Those things can really be meshed together. And for my experience is that this came all that this gossip part came to like this moment, the single experience where I've talked to two elders, and they should know what they're doing. And there was this pivot as soon as they told Dane and the associate about what I had said. And now the elders are saying, Oh, we made a mistake. We should be modeling Matthew 18. Let's go backwards. You go meet with him privately. And I was like, what? JULIE ROYS 10:19 Matthew 18, just to interject for anybody who doesn't know this, if turn the other cheek is the most abused, this has to be second, right? Yeah. It's Matthew 18, which instructs, and again, this is with personal offenses. It says, with a personal offense to first take your offense to your brother one on one, then if he doesn't listen to you to take one or two people with you, then if he doesn't listen, then speak it to the entire church. Again, Matthew 18 is not a prescription for bully pastors. I would say ITimothy 5:20, is the prescription for bully pastors, which is when there's an elder who's sending that you should publicly expose him so that others may stand in fear. Good grief, somebody who's being bullied, does not need to go through a Matthew 18. They go to people who are supposed to be advocates who are supposed to hold the pastor accountable. And when they don't, then to me, you're completely in a ITimothy 5:20 situation where it's time to publicly expose the sinning pastor. So rarely hear that passage. Instead, we always hear Matthew 18. And it's used as a club. It's used abusively, and it's a misapplication. PAUL COUGHLIN 11:31 Julie let's say that a person has gone under a sexual assault. Do we really think that we would require that person to meet one on one? No one but your most ardent fundamentalist would say yes to that. Most people would say, okay, that's an exception. I'll give you that exception. How is that the only exception? And this is used in Christian schools, by the way with kids who are being bullied, I argue it absolutely doesn't apply, in fact, you're retraumatizing that poor kid whose been the target of bullying to sit in the same room. So, we really need more than knowledge of Matthew 18. We need wisdom. And wisdom is doesn't apply to all situations at all times. EMILY HYLAND 12:10 And that's what made this so difficult is that I've just told two elders about the bullying and intimidation in those words. And their response is, I think we need to go do this again. And you need to go meet with him privately. And I can't say no, he's my boss. So that's what we do. And it's a closed-door private meeting, no witnesses. What was said in that meeting? But what really stood out to me was his line, have you told anyone else about this? It sounded like it was delivered, like straight out of a horror story to the character whose body is never found, because what the answer is, is that if I had said, Yes, I was guilty of gossip about a pastor, my church elder. If I said, no, there are no witnesses in the control of the narrative still possible, as long as I'm not around to contradict anything. And that's what happened. Forty-eight hours later, that's what I told him. I said, No, I haven't said anything, because what I believe is that gossip hinders reconciliation efforts. And I wanted this to be reconciled. I had no premonition that this was unrecoverable. I know better now. But what I thought then is that, yeah, there was no need to gossip, because it's like I saw a problem. I'm like, let's get these elders involved. Let's get this back on the rails moving on. And what it actually was, is, I did myself a disservice by not gossiping more. I don't want to gossip. But I wish I had talked to people who were safe and outside of that church. JULIE ROYS 13:40 And that's not gossip. No, that is getting the help that you need in certain situations. And so important for us to understand, distinguish between those. What about the family impact? Because you have children. And I've heard this from numerous people where I would do this, I would speak up, but I've got children in the church. Sometimes it's the spouse, there's all these connections and leverage that, quite frankly, the leader or the organization has over the person that's being bullied. Talk about that and how you navigated that. EMILY HYLAND 14:21 For me, I kept this all under wraps. Nobody knew, nobody knew what I was feeling. So, they probably noticed there was something wrong. And I remember when my mom asked me, she's like, how's it going working for Dane? And I had no answer. I couldn't just say fine, I held back. But then when this all came crashing down, she didn't know how to help me. My husband didn't know how to help me. Everybody knew I had worked for church. And then one moment I wasn't, they really did not know why they were at this church one Sunday, and nobody from that church ever spoke to them again. I mean, I'm shouldering my own mountain of grief, and then I've got this, you know, layer of they're grief. My oldest son, he's like, I was happy at MPC. And they were until it was over. And I think that processing the grief with them has been valuable. I trust that God will use this in their faith walk for their good. But I wish I'd spoken up earlier, and I wish I had prepared my family for the consequences of speaking up. What happens when you tell the truth is that you might experience hardship and pain, it's worth it. But I wish I had prepared myself to give them a little bit more solace as to how to navigate, and why their world changed so much so quickly. JULIE ROYS 15:42 I mean, listening as a mother, my heart just goes out to you and to your family, for what you've been through. And it's hard enough for adults, but for children to process how this happens, and to distinguish between the people that hurt them who are symbols of the Church of God. It's just so painful to see that and it just requires so much prayer, so much care. But I mean, none of us on this call, and I'm guessing, Paul, you included, my kids have not been spared any of the effects of what I've gone through. They shoulder it with me whether or not they deserve to because they really don't deserve any of it. And yet, there's no way to insulate them from it. PAUL COUGHLIN 16:30 And a job, in a supposed Christian environment, it certainly wasn't. And I have three kids, and they were younger. And I would drive home from that job. And you just undergo stuff that is just horrendous. And I had a mantra that I would tell myself in the car – our old blue Volvo. I would say this is not my future, this is not my future, this is not the Lord's will for my life. And it helped and it helps to highlight something fundamental for targets; hope is more important than love for a beleaguered individual, and a beleaguered community. We see this often in the writings and speeches of Martin Luther King. Why did he talk about hope so much? Because if you don't have a functioning hope, that today, tomorrow, the next day year, could be better – love doesn't land well. Without hope we can't digest love very well. So, one thing that we need to do is to inculcate more hope in our spirit is to realize this is not your future. This is temporary, it's not permanent. It's one of the reasons why we recommend that people start looking for another job, because we're talking about bullying within faith centric organizations. Looking for another job has a way of bolstering your hope. And with that hope we tend to think more clearly and more proactively. JULIE ROYS 18:01 Hmm. For some reason, I'm thinking of the movie Back to the Future. I don't know if you remember that. But there's a main bully. Yeah, and the two different scenarios that the entire family experiences because the father is bullied in front of his son. In the first scenario, that impacts the son's view his father and the culture of the family, and how it changes when somebody stands up to the bully. And I think one of the things that we don't think about enough is what it communicates to our children when we don't say anything, and we allow this kind of harm to continue. I talked to somebody recently, and I have to sort of laugh because I asked her how your kids process what happened? And she sort of laughed, and she said, at first it was really difficult. She said that they kind of think their mom's badass. I was like, okay, but I mean, in the very best sense of that word, if there is, is that they see that you're worth standing up for and that there are things worth standing up for. There's things worth paying a price for. And I think it's important as Christians that we start modeling that in the way that we respond. PAUL COUGHLIN 19:19 We're told as parents, not to exasperate our children, right in Scripture? One way to exasperate your children is to show cowardice and for them to witness that. That can make them feel incredibly uncomfortable and unstable. JULIE ROYS 19:32 Good point. EMILY HYLAND 19:33 I think it too is that you know, like that parable Jesus told about a man who finds a treasure in the field, and he sells everything to get the treasure. It's almost the counter like the inverse is that what would I not give to keep my kids from being discipled in gracelessness and fear and corruption? I mean, to not have my kids in that I'm like, I will pay that price. My kids will not be breathing that air and under that thumb of oppression and hurting other people. I don't want them to grow up thinking that that's okay at church. You can, I think, latch on to the teeniest tiniest nugget of courage to say, I can do this, because other people might benefit. JULIE ROYS 20:22 In a way, you had no idea when you spoke to the elders, how that was going to play out and what the consequences were going to be. But you say that we should understand the risks but take the gamble anyway. Why do you say that? EMILY HYLAND 20:37 When I look back, I think, like you said about the matrix. I mean, there was a period, I was like, please just plug me back into the matrix. I just wanted to go back. And then there was the period where I was like, please just let me have a lobotomy so I cannot have these memories, and not know, have these relationships that you know, now are nothing. And now I think that outcome was the right outcome. To be violently removed, was how God needed to do it. He did it on my behalf, he did it on behalf of my children, I needed it. But on the behalf of other people in that congregation who had the similar experience. I think that knowing the risks, that you could be fired and disfellowshipped, and the House of Cards will come crumbling down. If you know those risks, you still stand up, and you still speak the truth. Because the speaking of the truth is important to Christians. And if you're being abused by a Christian leader, whatever the outcome is of speaking the truth, is the best possible outcome. The other consequences coming from either tolerating sin or silencing your conscience; those may seem like a preferable outcome in the short term. But they are so costly to your soul and to your spirit that to be out of an abusive and coercive church is always better than being in one. So, to know those risks, and it's painful, it could be awful, it could be the worst thing you ever go through in your whole life. But do it anyway, because you were meant to be on the outside of an abusive church. JULIE ROYS 20:42 Paul, one of the things I should say, a person and a characteristic that I didn't even know about when I started reporting is the narcissist. And yet, I have learned about the narcissist in spades right now. But I think a lot of times, we don't know that that is what we are dealing with, in these situations, because this person has a title. And this person can speak so lovingly from the stage. Talk about the narcissist, and what we need to know as the person who is on the receiving end of what they're dishing out in our dealings with them. PAUL COUGHLIN 22:58 Yeah, so the narcissistic personality or antisocial personality can be depending on the study, 10, 12, 15 percent of a given population. It doesn't sound like a lot, but sometimes that's one out of every eight people can have this characteristic. That's pretty big, particularly when you look at a congregation, right? Most bullies bully, not because they have low self-esteem. They abuse others because they have excessive self-esteem. They think they're wonderful. And then you add on top of that this component that they are somehow especially circled by God. So, you already have this overinflated ego. And now it's uber inflated, because now they are a special person in a special world putting out special information that other people have not discerned until they were born, which is pretty stunning. We need to realize that most narcissists see people in two ways, people who are either below them or a threat. And this is how they look at the world. They are constantly measuring things in order to keep themselves at the top of the hierarchy. And again, to keep themselves at the top of the hierarchy isn't for them to necessarily usher in the kingdom of heaven to play their part, it's for their kingdom. They'll talk a lot about the kingdom of heaven, but it's really about their kingdom. And I'm reminded of that, I had a dinner with Mark Driscoll and very interesting dinner. And he kept talking about how it was all about Jesus. And he kept saying it over and over. But yet, if you look at the guy's actions, it's not all about Jesus. So, they often speak one way, but they really behave in a very different way. One thing that narcissists have in common is that they have three things in common and I mentioned one of them, an inflated self-regard. They really believe they're more important than other people. They don't believe the Bible. The Bible says we're equal, they don't really, they'll say we're equal. But that's not how they truly think. They really think they're above the herd. And because of that, it makes them tremendously dangerous. They also have a great sense of entitlement; things are owed to them again, because they're wonderful. But then they have a third component. And this third component is antagonism. And I've often explained to people who have been the target of bullying, but in faith centric organizations, the best bullies harm you, but they smile on their face and a lilt in their voice. They're the most damaging ones, because they hide their antagonism. Their words are designed to humiliate, and really destroy you. But they do it in such a way that it almost seems like okay for them to do that. It goes back to that cognitive dissonance that we talked about earlier. The look on the face is kind, but the words are poison. That's all on purpose. They have been practicing that dark skill for a long time, and most of them have gotten away with it for a long time, as well. So, to the best of our abilities, know who you're really dealing with, because it's a very different response than how you would deal with someone, for example, there's conflict. There's miscommunication, there's misunderstanding. When you have those behaviors that's often mistaken for bullying behaviors. It's not, those behaviors are answered in a much different way. Like an interpersonal. Oh, I didn't know what you were saying that okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm glad we're okay. Let's move on. Bullying is a whole other category of behavior. JULIE ROYS 26:40 Hmm. Well, Emily, I am so glad that you stuck up for yourself. I'm so glad that you kept receipts. I always tell people, please keep receipts, because in my business, you don't have receipts, it's a he said, she said. It's really very difficult to make a case. But you were able to make a case. Since this ruling by the Department of Human Rights last December, I know there was another major ruling in July. Would you get us up to speed with what's going on? What happened in July with that ruling, and also, as you're looking to the future, what's coming up? EMILY HYLAND 27:18 I didn't go into this wanting to go to court. And so, I've made choices that I've allowed this to be much longer but allowed for much greater investigation by outside agencies. So going and taking my case to the Illinois Department of Human Rights; that's similar to the federal EEOC. And the Illinois Department of Rights did an investigation, they looked at the material, we had a long conversation between me and the pastors where they asked us all these questions. And then they came up with this report. So there was 10 charges. And back in December, they found that retaliation had substantial evidence. And so that charge was forwarded up to the higher agency, the Human Rights Commission. Well, the other dismissed charges, of which there were nine, I went back, looked at some of the evidence, had more evidence, put it on there, and resubmitted it through, it's similar to an appeals process, but you can get them to look at it again. And so the higher agency looked at these other nine dismissed charges, and they said, alright, we'll keep six of them stay dismissed. And some of them were just because of timing. But two additional charges were, in essence, overturned. So, they were originally dismissed, they are now considered substantially off to more going to trial. So those two are unequal pay and termination, the discharge. So, they joined up with retaliation, and it will be going to trial coming up in the next hopefully few months, maybe who knows, it just could drag on. But there's also an Illinois Department of Labor claim that took two full years to get through the review system. And that one is going to be going in front of a judge in the next three weeks, where they'll hear my evidence and then that of the churches and to look at unpaid wages. How much time was I being asked to do work outside of the hours I was ever going to get paid for? Which I think is one of those strange ways that bullying is normalized in churches, which is how we are asked to spend our time. That's our time. And I loved my church, and I wanted to do a lot for my church. But when it became a I don't get to have dinner with my family because I need to respond to an email that Dane needs turned around this very second. Looking at that evidence and saying how often that was happening with regularity is what we're going into which is that yeah, I think that was a really hard one because you want to have your church go well, but you also need those boundaries to say, Why are you asking me for work to be done on a Saturday or while I'm on vacation or on a holiday? That was one of those, I think, very covert ways of controlling and coercing me. That is so normalized because it can just be passed off as Oh, it was just off the top of his head. And you don't didn't need to do that then. I mean, of course, you could have waited until Monday. Oh, we'll see. JULIE ROYS 30:33 So, I understand the regular trial system. But I don't understand the system going through government agencies like this. What does the trial look like? And what are you hoping to get out of it? EMILY HYLAND 30:45 Well compared to say a trial in a circuit court, the Human Rights Commission have their own set of administrative judges. Just as the Department of Labor has their own administrative judges. But there's still a discovery process, there's still witnesses and depositions. And then it all goes in front of her as a trial. JULIE ROYS 31:03 So, the judge will then be making the decision, and then damages and so forth would be determined by the judge? EMILY HYLAND 31:10 Right, and the church should be saying thank you, because actually, this is by far the cheapest route, even if you're found guilty, there's no punitive damages. So, they can't slap the church and say, you should have done this, and here's a giant fine. There's no punitive damages. It's all pretty much easy calculus as to how much you were making how much of interest how much of you know, and there's limits on how much even of other damages. This was never about money. And this was about the fact that they broke the law, and they are unrepentant. And don't think they've done moments wrong for two and a half years. So, I'm excited that there's people who can read this and see like, oh, yeah, this was definitely wrong. And it's not hard to identify it. It's shocking that the people who are in the organization cannot see what is well visible to people who are reading the narrative, and also even people who are getting the highlights of it. JULIE ROYS 32:10 Well, it speaks to your character, that you've gone through this process, that you haven't sought to be punitive when you certainly could have, and instead are waiting for justice. And so, we join you in praying for truth and praying for justice. And we do pray that all of that will become clear as this moves through the system. So, Emily, and Paul, thank you so much. This has been a rich discussion. And I know it's been bought with a lot of blood, sweat and tears from you. And so, we acknowledge that. But thank you for the insights that you've gained through a very, very painful process. PAUL COUGHLIN 32:48 Thank you, Julie. Appreciate that. EMILY HYLAND 32:50 Yeah, and thank you so much for bringing attention to this because a lot of people are under the same burdens. And they can be in the same massively confused state that I was and feeling very isolated. Because that is how bullying works. It is so about isolating you from a reality that you're in and keeping you from speaking up and pushing back and being happy. JULIE ROYS 33:16 Again, thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys. And if you're a survivor of church hurt or abuse or you're a Christian leader who wants to learn how to protect against abuse and help survivors, I want to invite you to join me at our upcoming Restore conference. This two-day event October 13 and 14, at Judson University in Elgin, Illinois, is a very special time of healing and equipping. Joining me will be author Wade Molen, whose book we referenced in this podcast, along with Lori Anne Thompson, Sheila Wray Gregoire, Mary Demuth, and more. For more information, go to RESTORE2023.COM. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way, you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. Read more

Guest Bios Show Transcript What do you do when you're being bullied by your Christian employer? Do you take it and simply turn the other cheek? Or, do you confront it, hoping for repentance and justice? Unfortunately, workplace bullying has become a major issue—not just in secular contexts, but in the church. In this podcast, Julie explores this issue with the whistleblower who exposed Dane Ortlund, Emily Hyland, and anti-bullying expert, Paul Coughlin. Ortlund is a Chicago-area pastor and author of the best-selling book, Gentle and Lowly. But, according to Emily, he's not very gentle or lowly; he's a bully—and a misogynist. And she says, when she complained about Ortlund's behavior to the elders of Naperville Presbyterian Church, where Emily worked, they fired her. Since then, Emily has filed a complaint with the Illinois Department of Human Rights, claiming retaliation. Last December, the Department of Human Rights ruled in Emily's favor and found “substantial evidence” of retaliation by Dane and Naperville Presbyterian. In this podcast, Emily tells her story and updates us on her case. She also shares insights about responding to bullying she gained from her firsthand experience. Anti-bullying expert Paul Coughlin also contributes to the podcast, sharing advice he's gained over decades of dealing with bullies. Paul met Emily at last year's Restore Conference. And Paul has been a source of support and wisdom for Emily throughout her whistleblowing process. If you've ever had to deal with a bully—or are dealing with one now—you'll find this podcast invaluable.  Guests Emily Hyland Emily Hyland earned her bachelors in Molecular Genetics and Biotechnology before working for the Office of Naval Research in Washington, DC. While there she received a MHSA in Management & Leadership from The George Washington University. She has worked with the US Army and the Office of the Surgeon General, Accenture, GE, and across finance, manufacturing, health services, and information technology. Recently, she was the Director of Operations at Naperville Presbyterian Church in suburban Illinois. She is married and has three children.  Paul Coughlin Paul Coughlin is an author, an international speaker and the founder and president of The Protectors, which is dedicated to helping schools, organizations and communities combat bullying. His books include No More Christian Nice Guy, Raising Bully-Proof Kids and 5 Secrets Great Dads Know. Paul and his wife, Sandy, reside in central Oregon and have three teenage children. Learn more about Paul and his organization at www.theprotectors.org. Show Transcript SPEAKERS JULIE ROYS, EMILY HYLAND, PAUL COUGHLIN JULIE ROYS 00:04 What do you do when you're being bullied by your Christian employer? Do you take it and simply turn the other cheek? Or do you confront it, hoping for repentance and justice? Welcome to the Roys report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys and joining me on this episode are Emily Hyland and Paul Coughlin. As you may remember, Emily is the whistleblower who filed a complaint with the Illinois Department of Human Rights concerning a well-known Chicago area pastor, Dane Ortlund. Ortlund is the author of the best-selling book, Gentle and Lowly. But according to Emily, he's not very gentle or lowly. He's a bully and a misogynist. And she says when she complained about Ortlund's behavior to the elders of Naperville Presbyterian Church, where Ortlund pastors, they fired her. But last December, the Department of Human Rights ruled in Emily's favor. It found substantial evidence of retaliation by Dane and Naperville Presbyterian Church in Emily's firing. And now that case is going to trial. Plus, there have been some additional charges added to that case. So, stay tuned, and you'll hear all about that. But also joining me on this podcast is Paul Coughlin. Paul is an expert on bullying and a repeat guest here on The Roys Report. He also was a speaker at last year's Restore conference. And I know from talking to Emily that she took pages of notes from Paul's talk, which was super eye opening. And it's out of that relationship and collaboration between Paul and Emily, that started at Restore, that this podcast was envisioned. I know many of you have experienced bullying in a Christian workplace. I get emails about this all the time. It's bad enough to be bullied in any workplace. But when it happens at a church or an organization that's supposed to be Christian, it's especially painful. So, I'm really looking forward to our podcast today. But before we dive in, I want to thank our sponsors, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington if you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.com. Well, again, joining me is the whistleblower in the Dane Ortlund discrimination and retaliation case, Emily Hyland. Emily was the Operations Director at Naperville Presbyterian Church in Naperville, Illinois. But in March 2021, just nine days after complaining of discrimination and bullying to church elders, Emily was abruptly fired. And she has two cases pending right now, one before the Illinois Department of Human Rights, and another with the Illinois Department of Labor. So, Emily, welcome. I'm so glad you could join us. EMILY HYLAND 03:30 Thank you, Julie. And thank you for your continued support and drawing attention to these important issues that men and women face when they're in a church and employed by one. JULIE ROYS 03:40 Well, it's my pleasure to do so. And again, also joining us is Paul Coughlin, founder of the anti-bullying group, The Protectors. He's also the author of a number of best-selling books, including No More Christian Nice Guy and Raising Bullyproof Kids. He's also worked with the Baltimore Ravens and is an expert witness. So, Paul, welcome back. It's just so great to be with you again. PAUL COUGHLIN 04:02 Great to be back. It's always wonderful. And Emily, good to hear your voice. JULIE ROYS 04:07 Well, it's so cool that the both of you actually met at the Restore conference. And I know that was before any of this became public. It's before the Illinois Department of Human Rights found substantial evidence of retaliation by the church and Dane Ortlund. But Paul, let me just start with you and ask when you first met Emily, what was your impression of her case and just what she had been through? PAUL COUGHLIN 04:33 Well, you know, you hear a lot of the same things when it comes to people who have been abused either adolescent bullying but then also bullying in the workplace, particularly faith centric areas. And honestly, what you often hear is a good amount of confusion at first. Many times, people who have this confusion going in their minds, they often may take it out on themselves as opposed to really seeing it more clearly, and in seeing it more clearly, it's not the fault of the target. It is the fault of the bully, and in many cases, the serial bully. JULIE ROYS 05:09 I hear a lot of these stories. And it's usually Wow, this is so awful. But I'm not expecting justice with the Illinois Department of Human Rights. You hardly ever get a ruling in your favor. Were you surprised when you heard that she had gotten this ruling? PAUL COUGHLIN 05:24 Very much so. I mean, Emily had a substantial case, substantial amount of evidence. And you know that evidence comes from people who, you know, obviously are willing to talk. Do you know how many people are not willing to talk? They know the score, but for a few fundamental reasons, they remain quiet, probably because they're worried that they'll be next. So, we have a substantial case, where chances are few people really spoke up. JULIE ROYS 05:50 And again, that case is pending. And towards the end of this podcast, Emily, I'm going to have you update us on the latest developments, because there are some really important ones there. But let's back up to your story, and what happened to you, Emily, for those who haven't read the news reports. I mean, it came out in December, even if you did read the report, you might be a little bit rusty on what happened. Would you give us the cliff notes of what happened to you, that led you to file this claim with the Illinois Department of Human Rights? EMILY HYLAND 06:21 Well, in some ways, it starts back before 2020 to my time at the church. I had been there since 2006, and Dane joined in 2007. So, for over a decade, we existed as two members of the same church, running into each other, same classes, same age kids. And so, when the former senior pastor left, a search committee was put together, Dane was on it. Two years go by and no senior pastor candidate. Well, then it's announced, Dane is going to be the senior pastor candidate. And by that time, I was on staff and the director of operations. And I was surprised because he hadn't been a pastor before. And I knew that the requirements for the job had been five years of pastoring experience. But I was since I knew him, I mean, he wasn't a stranger. I had no inclinations that this was something that was going to be so catastrophic. But when he started, things just weren't right. And they continued to get more wrong as the months went on. And as I started really telling myself, this isn't what you think, it's not right. I mean, maybe you're off, maybe you're just being a little petty. I had this mindset that was getting progressively more confused. And I was just talking circles to myself. And then finally, I happen to read in that February of 2021, when the Ravi Zacharias report came out. And in addition to obviously, the terrible accounts of sexual predation was the organizational aspect and how staff who raised questions who were having legitimate concerns, they weren't buying some of the early propaganda that was being put out, that those staff were being bullied. And I read those reports, and I looked at this, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that is what is going on here. And I was shocked, because I finally had words and labels to what I was feeling, what I was experiencing. And so, I take the next maybe month, I read up a little bit more about the differences between bullying, harassment, rudeness, inconsiderateness, to really make sure that I'm linguistically precise in this matter. And it comes to a head when I call up two of the elders, and I tell them privately, I think I'm being bullied. I think it's because I'm a woman. I myself had a hard time getting those words out, because I didn't want to be bullied. And I didn't want it to be because of my gender. So, the two elders sat on this for a little bit, because Dane was out of town. And when they brought it to Dane, that next Monday, it started the floor falling out of everything, where it was very swiftly after that, then maybe 12 hours, that I was going to be fired. And it took a few days. And in the meantime, I didn't know what was happening. I just knew that this couldn't continue. This was not the right behavior. I wanted the elders to help me navigate this and to be safe in it. But that's not at all what happened. That at the end of the week, Dane fired me, and they had no elder walk me out the door. And then I was done. They follow that up by Dane telling the staff that I had been fired for cause and to not reach out to me. JULIE ROYS 09:53 In a day. Right. You lost your church of how many years? EMILY HYLAND 09:58 I had been there almost 15 years by that point. JULIE ROYS 10:02 You lost your job. You lost your church family. And you were ostracized at this point. People weren't even talking to you, correct? EMILY HYLAND 10:12 Oh, right. Yeah, it was full on disfellowshipping. I mean, I didn't know what that word was until somebody told me I was like, Ooh, yeah, that is exactly what it is. I had people who wouldn't even look at me in public. These were people I had served with for 15 years. And I didn't believe it could happen. I still I mean, my husband still cannot process that element of it, which is that he cannot believe that people who I've been with for that long would turn because I didn't do anything to them. I didn't even say anything publicly about Dane. I mean, this was two conversations with elders. And now people won't speak to me. And that really continues now. JULIE ROYS 10:50 Really, to this day? Yeah. And I want you to comment on this, Paul. But first, I'd like to read a statement by Dave Veerman, who was an elder at the time. So, he participated in the firing. A few months after it happened, clearly had a change of heart, and he resigned himself. And his statement really played a pivotal role in the Illinois Department of Human Rights in their ruling. So, I'd like to read it. I can't read the whole thing just because of the length. But some portions I think would be really instructive as to what happened and even corroborating what you're saying. So, this is what he writes. The 2021 version of the Personnel Committee met a couple of times via zoom to discuss a few relatively minor issues. Then we got word that Dane wanted to have us deal with a serious issue with a staff member. At this Zoom meeting on March 16, he said he wanted to let Emily go and made vague references about her performance and relationships with other staff. He also said that he had met with her a couple of times, so we thought she had a pretty good idea of where this was heading. Let me just pause there. Did you have any idea you were going to be fired? EMILY HYLAND 10:51 None. It was so shocking. And this was two days before Palm Sunday. I mean, it is going into the biggest week of the Church year, and to just be like, Oh, we don't need a director of operations. And we certainly don't need her to do any turnover. We don't need her to give us any of the information that she has been using in her job for eight years. I was completely surprised. JULIE ROYS 12:18 Well, and apparently Dave shared your sentiments there. He writes, this news was a shock to us because we had always been impressed with Emily and what she had done for the church. In addition, we had just had a session meeting on March 15, in which nothing had been said about her and her performance. Dane also said that Emily had gone to two elders that she felt close to, and thought would listen empathically and give wise counsel. Later, I learned that she had shared how she had been mistreated recently by Dane and was asking advice on how she should respond. And then I'm gonna skip through some of it and read. He describes that he had several meetings, then with elders and different people. Then he writes, even though I didn't know Emily's side of the story, I voted to move ahead with Dane's recommendation. Our next step was to inform the other elders. So, the three of us each took a few men to call. Then Dane set up a meeting with Emily for Friday, March 19, to inform her and he asked me to be there. At that brief meeting at 1pm, Dane fired Emily saying it was, quote, the will of the session. Unsurprisingly, Emily was quite upset, although trying to maintain her composure. I tried to just listen and not say much. She started reading the agreement. Apparently was there an NDA that they had given you? EMILY HYLAND 13:32 Yeah. On top of the details regarding severance. JULIE ROYS 13:35 Is there anything remarkable about that, or pretty standard? 13:39 I think that it was passed off as something that oh, this is just how we do things. We don't really know what's in here. But I read contracts very thoroughly and to be like, Wow, no NDA, no severance. That was how it was written, is that if I did not sign away, my legal rights, agree to confidentiality and agree to a non-disparagement, I mean, never saying anything negative about the pastors, the officers, the church or how I was treated. That was the only way I was gonna get any severance. And that's how it was written. There was no mention of why I was terminated. It wasn't for cause that was it. JULIE ROYS 14:15 I wish I could say that that was remarkable in some way. I've learned that's very unremarkable that's very similar to what I got from the Moody Bible Institute when I was fired. And so many people that I've talked to are getting NDAs now, and I'm glad that this issue is coming to the fore. That people are realizing that churches now are giving NDAs, that Christian organizations are giving them and they're about as carnal a document as there is and it is there to protect the institution; has nothing and no care and concern for the employee. As a sister in Christ or a part of the church, but I digress on my editorial comment on that one. But NDAs are just I just think they're evil. He continues to write, Emily brought up her recollection of being bullied and strongly pushed back on the decision because of the current cultural attitudes toward misogyny. Skipping ahead. Later, I learned that at 3:30pm, a staff meeting was held to announce Emily's termination. Dane said 1) Emily was fired for cause, 2) the decision was the will of the session, a session being in a Presbyterian Church sort of the equivalent of the elder board, and 3) staff should not contact her. I need to say that because of Dane's actions, a few months later, I resigned as an elder and my wife and I left the church. Not to go into many details, but at that time I heard Dane give many of the same rationalizations and explanations for his attitudes and actions in this precipitating conflict. It made me rethink my decision regarding Emily, that I had made a mistake. My agreeing to terminate Emily's employment was based almost entirely on believing the word of Dane, my pastor. I realized now that I should have looked deeper, ask more questions, and met with Emily to get her side of the story. And again, that's Dave Veerman, a former elder there at Naperville Presbyterian church. Paul, as you listen to this letter, I could see on your face, yes, we're on Zoom, by the way, folks, but I could tell that you're resonating with some things in there. But what stood out to you, as you heard that letter? PAUL COUGHLIN 16:22 That elder is a rare person, sadly. I mean, that's a rare person who's going to stick their neck out like that. But those are the people who really keep integrity on the table. So, if I had a hat on, I would take it off to that gentleman. You know, there's a lot of things that Emily has talked about. And we spoke earlier about the pattern of behavior, right, that people undergo. And when you recognize that pattern, you begin to realize you're not crazy. And one of the things that is so painful for targets is betrayal. You could hear it in Emily's voice. And she talked about it; people not talking to her, been at the same church for something like 15 years and people don't talk to you. The emotional impact of bullying in the workplace itself is swampy for many people. And then you have this being ostracized. And one thing I'd like to point out for any workplace, but especially faith centric workplaces, is that you're going to expect people to live by a certain level of integrity. And sadly, for whatever reason, it seems to be baked into the system, betrayal is coming. I'm reminded, and I've experienced that we've all licked our wounds when it comes to this behavior. I'm reminded of that wonderful movie Braveheart, where William Wallace was in. JULIE ROYS 17:45 One of my favorites, by the way. PAUL COUGHLIN 17:46 I'm not surprised. He's betrayed by his best friend. And because of that, his heart is completely taken out of the battle, he doesn't care anymore. That is what will happen to us. And so, what I would like to say to our listeners right now is that don't be surprised by the betrayal. For some reason, it is baked into the system, in most cases, most of the time. I'm reminded by that quote from Martin Luther King, who said, in the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. It's just how it goes down. It's par for the course. But I would also want to say to the people listening now who could be that support structure around others, please keep that in mind. You can play a profound role, not just in bringing fairness into the workplace and with integrity, but also in the psychological and spiritual bolstering of another person, you're that important. JULIE ROYS 18:49 And I've heard that repeatedly from people who have been victims of spiritual abuse, church abuse, retaliation, bullying. That they can handle that there's one bad apple. Like, they can handle that there's a bully pastor out there, right? They can deal with that. What they can't deal with, is that everybody got in line with that guy. Everybody stood there silently, while they were excoriated for false charges against them, whatever, and that the average person stood by and did nothing. And that's been my experience. I know, I just had a birthday recently. I don't even know if I should say this. But, you know, you get these greetings from folks that you're like, wait, you haven't talked to me since the day I was fired! In fact, you wouldn't take my phone calls. But okay. Thanks for the Happy Birthday. Appreciate that. I mean, it's one of those things that's just absolutely stunning. And this is why I think spiritual abuse and church hurt is far worse and more fundamental than other kinds of abuse. And I'm not meaning to minimize certainly all of them are horrible, horrible. But there's something about this that just goes to the core of your belief system of who you think people are. And if we don't separate out, God's people from God Himself, can really mess up and distort our image of who God is. And I think there's so many people deconstructing today, whatever you want to call it, are just trying to come to grips with what is it that was true that I believed and what was just the stuff that I accepted with it that really wasn't? And I know there's people listening who are there, I've been there, right? I'm still there to some degree, you know. PAUL COUGHLIN 20:39 And Julie, could I add to that our Lord was bullied before He was crucified. Our Lord knows exactly what it's like to experience betrayal, false accusations, to put up with the arrogance and the hubris of other people. And he can empathize with our weaknesses, he knows exactly what it was like, because the crucifixion included many of the same components of workplace bullying. So he is on our side, he knows exactly how we feel, and he is there for us. EMILY HYLAND 21:11 I thought about that over the last few years, when you take communion, and it starts with on the night he was betrayed. You can just stop right there and say, Jesus knows what it's like to be betrayed, and forsaken by everyone who you thought was for you and with you. I mean, to identify in that aspect of religious community is a thread of hope you can have because Jesus knows betrayal. JULIE ROYS 21:39 I'm so glad that you both brought that up. Because I think the ability to identify with Christ in his sufferings, if you've been through something like this, is much greater. And yet, as I've experienced it, the eye opening thing hasn't so much been that I get to suffer with him. But it makes me so much more aware of how hideous the suffering that Jesus endured. Just having tasted a small amount of what he went through, has given me just such a greater appreciation for the suffering of Christ by being able to enter into it again, in a very small way, comparatively. PAUL COUGHLIN 22:21 Julie, one thing I tried to point out for people who you've talked about, like deconstructing faith, and all three of us have gone through its process right. In my mind, one thing that I have tried to do to try to keep things clear is the difference between churchianity and Christianity. And I think when we see this suffering of Christ, of such great unfairness, I see that in the category of true Christianity, that's what it's about. What we are experiencing in faith centric organizations is what I would call churchianity. And I believe that there's obviously overlap between the two. But also, there's great distinctions. I think that's very helpful for people who have been abused so that they can start thinking of it in terms like that, because it helps them hopefully not throw the baby out with the bathwater, where it's all bad, and it's all wrong. Rather, it helps to put it in context. JULIE ROYS 22:22 Well, much of what we're going to be talking about in this podcast is really looking back and thinking, what I wish I had known then that I know now, because it is a learning process. And man, can it be a rude awakening, but an important one. It's like the matrix as the red pill or the blue pill, right? You know, those of us who have taken I don't know, is it the red pill that opens your eyes? But yeah, if you take that pill, there's no undoing it, and you see it. Let me just start with you, Emily, I know one of the things that you said, if you were to do this over again, is you would stop talking to yourself and start listening to yourself. What do you mean by that? EMILY HYLAND 23:55 Well, as I said earlier, I think I was talking myself in circles, and something would happen, and I would disconnect from my intuition. It felt wrong, but I told myself, nah, and I downplayed the harm that was coming, which I know now, like, that's not mercy. Mercy is an intentional weighing of the harm that you receive, and a decision to forgive it. To just dismiss harm, and to downplay it and pretend like that wasn't harm, that's actually not mercy. I think that, particularly to Christian circles, we think of the Spirit speaking through our intuition. For instance, if I had an intuition to go and talk to a neighbor, and invite them to a church choir service, we would say that that's the you know, Spirit leading you. But it doesn't work in the other way. Like if you have this intuition that, you know, I think something's wrong here. I think my pastor isn't behaving as a pastor should, that your mind does not really like that absolutely could be the Spirit speaking on your attentions, you're trying to tell it this Be quiet, and to stop talking. And so, I think I was trying to rationalize away a pattern of events. And now, if I could go back, I would have told myself Stop, listen to how you're feeling, and especially your sympathetic system. I mean, that is there by God's design. And when we feel fear, when we feel out of control, when we feel afraid, or wanting to run away, or pressured, and those hormones start making you feel stressed and anxious, that's not nothing. That's your body responding to something that is really happening. And that I should have been listening much more carefully to that, instead of just telling myself in my higher brain, oh, don't bother with that. It was like, No, this is merely myself trying to protect myself. And I discounted it for a very long time. Until one day, like I said, I just happened to read a description of what workplace bullying in Christian ministry looked like. And it was like my intuition just got plugged in all at once. And it was like, Whoa, now, what followed was my intuition bracket was perfect. I mean, it was remarkable how, yeah, I was right on this stuff. I was accurate. And I didn't really want to be, I didn't want to be bullied, and I didn't want to work for a bullying pastor. None of that was by design. But identifying those behaviors, identifying what was going on behind the scenes, was when that intuition reconnected. And I think that if I could have gone back, I would have listened to my intuition, and realized, yes, that is the spirit, it's saying some hard stuff that I didn't want to hear. But that silencing it was to my own detriment. JULIE ROYS 26:53 And let's also acknowledge that in a lot of these churches, we're hearing consistent message often of listen to the authorities in your church, be submissive to the authorities in your church and their leadership. Don't gossip, the meddling, we're hearing those constantly. And so, it's a cognitive dissonance that you're dealing with. And I remember we did a surprise birthday party for my husband once. And there were numerous times that he should have figured out what was going on. And he just didn't like, and afterwards, we asked him because he was so surprised. Like, how did you not get that? And he's like, I don't know. It's just like this cognitive dissonance and you throw out things that don't fit the narrative. And you just, it's funny how we do that. One of the best books out there, and it's funny that you've even said it several times. And when you're talking about this, is it something's not right. And I think Wade Mullins book, Something's Not Right, is just so so good in helping you put your finger on that. So, if you've never read this book, you have to read Something's Not Right. It's just so good. Or listen to Wade's talk at the Restore conference, where he talks about some of these things. They're all available at our YouTube channel, you can see that. And by the way, Paul, your talk on bullying is available on video on our YouTube channel. It's also available as a podcast, I think June 23, I think of last year is when we published that. So, you can go back and listen to Paul's whole talk on bullying, which is I know mind blowing for so so many people. Paul, as you hear what Emily just said about trusting that intuition, what comes to mind for you? PAUL COUGHLIN 28:31 A number of things. One thing that would have really helped Emily and so many other people is if she had at least one person standing by her side. She talked about almost like talking to herself and the cycle. We all get into that. And what really helps if we have a person, ideally, a person who is wise, but also more than wisdom, courageous. If we have someone to confide in, they can talk us out of those circular thinking, tends to spiral down, not up usually. And in that wisdom that they give us, we can find the seeds of courage as well because when we get clarity, we have a much stronger ability to move forward, hopefully in an intelligent way with both truth and grace and love. So, there are people out there who need us desperately in that situation. And I'd like to point out a distinction statistically between men and women when bullied in the workplace. Statistically, men tend to get angry and leave. Women tend to medicate and stay. And unfortunately, and to hear that the protectors what we do is we often advise find another job because it can be so damaging to the person's spirit to their soul when they undergo this work. And statistically it can be harder on women. That damage can go deeper and last longer. In fact, many of the characteristics of PTSD are the same that happens in the workplace, then people returning from war, it can be that bad. So, it's an important distinction to keep in mind. You know what I think what happened was Emily, is they picked on the wrong person, and I've told Emily this; is that chances are the people in her former workplace, the main pastor particularly, in my opinion, has probably been doing this for a long time, has probably been targeting people specific people and getting his way. And what happened is he probably targeted the wrong person; a person of a lot of backbone. You can tell Emily's very sharp, but sharpness alone won't do it. Functioning degree of courage is often necessary in order to defend yourself. And we have a wonderful success story now, I think because of Emily's character of who she is. JULIE ROYS 31:04 Well, this concludes part one of my podcast with Paul and Emily on bullying in a Christian workplace. In part two, you'll hear Emily describe more of what she wishes she knew back when she was being bullied that she knows now. And you'll hear more expert advice from Paul Coughlin, on how to deal with bullies. And also, why you may have become a target. PAUL COUGHLIN 31:25 Bullies in the workplace, particularly within the church, they use our niceness against us. It's one of the reasons why we're targeted. We don't use the word victim at the protectors very often, we prefer the word target. And here's why. You have been selected, the bully in the workplace, the bully pastor has picked on some people but not other people. Why is that? Because a bully is not looking for a fight, they want to overwhelm another person. So, they look for the nice person, they look for the person, for example, who lives by turning the other cheek. JULIE ROYS 31:57 Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. Well, again, that's Paul Coughlin. And we'll be releasing part two of this podcast in just a few days. So, you want to be watching for that. Also, if you're a survivor of church hurt or abuse, or you're a Christian leader who just wants to learn more about how to protect against abuse and help survivors, I want to invite you to join me at our upcoming Restore conference. This two-day event, October 13 and 14 at Judson University in Elgin, Illinois, is a very special time of healing and equipping. Joining me will be author Wade Molen, whose book we referenced in this podcast, along with Lori Anne Thompson, Sheila Ray Gregoire, Mary Demuth, and more. For more information, go to RESTORE2023.COM. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. Read more