Adventure Travel Show

Bike Pack the Erie Canal from Buffalo to Albany Learn how to bike pack the 360 mile Erie Canal Trail :  what you'll see, when to go, how many miles per day, where to sleep, and what gear to take. Learn how to plan your epic multi-day biking adventure and much more.  Get insights into general bike packing from an experienced bike packer. COMPLETE SHOW NOTES  See important links for planning your adventure, photos, videos and more cool info about hiking, backpacking, and paddle packing Isle Royale National Park. Get FREE Travel Planners for ATA adventures (and each month you will get an email from Kit with links to all future Travel Planners (no spam promise!).  Get the monthly newsletter here. CONTACT KIT Resources  Promo Codes and Recommended Tour Companies Travel Insurance:  Quickly and easily compare rates and policies from different companies Amazon Kit's Picks  Please use my Amazon link to access your Amazon account.  Even if you don't purchase any of my recommendations, I get credit for anything you DO purchase - at no additional cost to you, you'll be helping to support the show and keeping it AD FREE:) SUBSCRIBE to the Adventure Travel Show (the “How to's of adventure travel) SUBSCRIBE to Active Travel Adventures (fantastic adventure destinations) Join the Active Travel Adventures Facebook Group Follow ATA on Twitter Follow ATA on Instagram Follow ATA on Pinterest

Bikepacking and Bike Touring Adventures Today we discuss bike packing and bike touring (and the difference between the two). We'll cover: The difference between bike packing and bike touring Panniers versus bike bags for carrying your gear What kind of bags you'll need The six main cross country USA bike trails Rails to Trails - over 25,000 miles of bike paths Europe and Asia long distance bike holiday resources On the corresponding website, you'll see a detailed packing list as well as important links for planning your long distance cycling adventure. Get the complete SHOW NOTES HERE. Email me here. Get the FREE monthly newsletter with the free checklists and also the Active Travel Adventure Travel Planners - all free.  No spam promise - unsubscribe anytime. The Podcasts: https://activetraveladventures.com https://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Subscribe to the Podcasts: Active Travel Adventures Adventure Travel Show CONNECT WITH ME! Instagram Pinterest Facebook Facebook Group Twitter YouTube MeWe MeWeGroup  

Today we explore the wonderful world of boondocking, aka dry camping or dispersed camping.  While mostly on the over 640 million UD federal lands, we also explore state public lands and even 'Wallydocking' in Walmart parking lots! Learn how to find sites, how to evaluate if a site is suitable for you and your rig, and assorted tips and the etiquette of boon docking. COMPLETE SHOW NOTES  See important links to boondocking sites, photos and more cool info Get FREE Travel Planners for ATA adventures (and each month you will get an email from Kit with links to all future Travel Planners (no spam promise!).  Get the monthly newsletter here. CONTACT KIT SUBSCRIBE to the Adventure Travel Show (the “How to’s of adventure travel) SUBSCRIBE to Active Travel Adventures (fantastic adventure destinations) Join the Active Travel Adventures Facebook Group Follow ATA on Twitter Follow ATA on Instagram Follow ATA on Pinterest

Kit speaks with certified Wilderness EMT expert Casey Marcum about things we need to think about BEFORE we head into the wild, and then what to do if something goes wrong and you or someone else gets sick or injured.  You'll learn key things to make sure you put in your pack and some clever hacks when you have to make do when you don't have the ideal resources. Be sure to check out the SHOW NOTES for more detailed information, and be sure to sign up for the monthly (no spam guarantee!) NEWSLETTER so that you get the FREE Emergency Kit Checklist. The Podcasts: https://activetraveladventures.com https://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Follow Casey on Instagram @WildNC Waterfalls CONNECT WITH ME! Instagram Pinterest Facebook Facebook Group Twitter YouTube

Kit interviews Certified Personal Trainer and Coach, Becki Rupp of Trailblazer Wellness about what we need to know, and how to prepare for our big mountain adventures. We discuss: Altitude or Mountain Sickness, and when it is serious The importance of training for your adventure Who gets altitude sickness (hint: anyone and it doesn't matter if you are fit) Symptoms of mountain sickness and when to turn back Tips to minimize discomfort The importance of hydration and carbs Breathing exercises and altitude training gear VO2 Max - what is it, and is it important How to get a 10% Discount on adventure training with Trailblazer Wellness Why Kit is moving the show to monthly See photos, watch FREE Training Videos and see the COMPLETE SHOW NOTES HERE! Subscribe to the companion podcast:  Active Travel Adventures The Podcasts: https://activetraveladventures.com https://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com CONNECT WITH ME! Instagram Pinterest Facebook Facebook Group Twitter YouTube

The 'Summer of Kit' road trip in 'Sophie', Kit's new-to-her converted Sprinter camper van concludes, but she forgot about lack of internet access to produce new episodes while she traveled.  Today we discuss the new schedule. Be sure to check in with Kit to let her know how YOUR summer went during this crazy time! CONNECT WITH ME! Instagram Pinterest Facebook Facebook Group Twitter The Podcasts: https://activetraveladventures.com https://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com  

Host Kit Parks is getting ready to turn 60 this fall and after finding someone to manage her rental business, she is now able to retire. No longer needing to live in Eastern NC, she takes time to assess her life, figure out where she wants to live (mountains and trails are a 'must have') and tries to figure out the next phase of her life while incorporating her dreams and desires.   This will be the "Summer of Kit".  She plans to take the summer off from podcasting this and the Adventure Travel Show podcast to recalculate her life.  She also hopes to take "Sophie" her new to her Sprinter Camper Van on a cross country trip to explore our national and state parks and hopes to connect with listeners along the way. LINKS: Contact Kit Get the Monthly Newsletter Subscribe to the Active Travel Adventures podcast Visit the Active Travel Adventures website to search adventures and more Subscribe to the Adventure Travel Show podcast and search adventure "How To' topics.

20 Strategies to Build Resilience and Grit Learn how to improve your resilience and grit to better handle all the setbacks life throws at you.  Find out the eleven traits of resilient people, why resilience is important and learn twenty workable strategies you can work on to bounce back quicker when faced with tough times. Get complete details and download the 20 Strategies to Build Resilience and Grit Guide on the Show Notes page https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com Subscribe to the Adventure Travel Show Podcast Subscribe to the Active Travel Adventures Podcast   Connect with Kit: Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram  parks.kit  Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page # howtobuildresilience #howtoimproveresilience #buildingresilienceinadults #resilienceskills #buildingconfidence  #resilient #L

A Camper’s Guide on How to Choose a Sleeping Bag, a Sleeping Pad and a Sleeping bag Liner! Learn how to maintain your gear to extend its life. Tips on buying camping gear for both car campers, backpackers, bike packers and those going on kayak or canoe tours. We cover: • How to choose a sleeping bag • Camping versus Backpacking sleeping bags • Sleeping bag Thermal Ratings • How to choose the right shaped sleeping bag • Female and children’s only sleeping bags • Best sleeping bag materials • Down versus synthetic fill pros and cons • Considering other sleeping bag materials like zippers, shell fabric and added features • Sleeping bag accessories: compression and storage bags • Sleeping bag liners: comparison of fabric choices • Liner special features available • How to choose a sleeping pad for car campers and backpackers, bike packers, or kayak and canoe touring • Air pads versus closed cell foam pads and accessories • Compare insulation, weight, size and construction • How to wash a sleeping bag, pad and liner • How to store your sleeping bag • And much more! Get complete details and download the FREE Camper’s Guide to Sleeping Bags, Sleeping Pads and Liners on the Show Notes page Subscribe to the Adventure Travel Show podcast – It’s Free Subscribe to the Active Travel Adventures podcast– It’s Free https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com Connect with Kit: Email Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram parks.kit Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group: Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page

How to Learn a Foreign Language Episode 029 In today’s show I interview Kerstin Cable of the Fluent Company about ways we can improve our language learning skills.  We learn what works and what doesn’t in our quest of how to learn a new language. We cover: Why it’s smart to learn at least a few phrases of a foreign language before you visit a country that speaks it Why bumbling and massacring a language is a great way to learn The importance of +1 or ‘zone of proximal development’ is important How much time it usually takes to learn the key phrases of a new language before traveling Why it’s great to be in the ‘waffle’ stage of learning before going in country About trying to learn several new languages simultaneously Why motivation can mean more than aptitude How to deal with locals who switch to English on you Why grammar isn’t the most important thing Great ways to immerse yourself in a new language How to use the internet to speed language acquisition The most effective way to use flash cards and four great apps The importance of ‘pattern spotting’ when it comes to grammar The most effective way to spend your time when learning a new language And much more! Get complete details and download the FREE Language Learning Tips on the  Show Notespage.  Check out all destinations on the Directory Page. Subscribe to the podcast HERE. Want to learn about exciting adventure travel destinations around the world?  Subscribe to the Active Travel Adventures podcast HERE.   Connect with Kit: Email Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram  parks.kit  Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com      

Learn what to do when you are threatened by lightning, especially if you are caught exposed outdoors including the proper safety position and what to do if someone gets hit by lightning.  You’ll also learn what constitutes a safe shelter during a thunderstorm. We cover: What is lightning? The five types of lightning and typical strikes from them What position to take when lightning is striking nearby How to determine a safe shelter The three types of lightning injury and what you should do How groups should position themselves during a lightning storm And much more! Get complete details and download the FREE Lightning Safety Guide on the Show Notespage https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com Connect with Kit: Email Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram  parks.kit  Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page 00000161 00000160 00002D2C 00002D2C 000113D0 000113D0 00007E12 00006683 00000000 000113D0

Today we learn how why you often have to choose between comfort at night or comfort during the day when it comes to backpacking.  Discover the four main ways to go ultralight when backpacking plus learn tips to reduce your base pack weight so you can be as comfortable as possible during the day AND the night the next time you go backpacking. We cover: What ultralight backpacking? What is the safe weight for YOU to carry on your back What does Base Pack Weight mean and how to calculate it How to determine how much food and water to carry Tips for choosing ultralight backpacks, tents and other shelters, sleeping bags and sleeping pads Why you should weigh and analyze everything you put in your pack And much more! Get complete details and download the FREE Ultralight Backpacking Tips AND a Backpacking Gear Checklist on the Show Notes page https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com Connect with Kit: Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram  parks.kit  Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page  

Today we learn how to avoid the dreaded solo supplements that can add up to as much as 100% of the cost of your adventure! Discover the 12 ways to waive or reduce the dreaded single supplement add on fees. We cover: What is a solo supplement anyway and why do I have to pay them? How to find companies that waive single supplements and/or offer roommate matching services Why when you book matters when it comes to paying solo supplement charges How to use Search and Google Alerts to help you reduce single supplement fees Why you may want to consider alternative types of lodging which don’t charge solo fees Travel partner matching services How to find and track solo deals Why it’s important to consider the entire cost of a trip, including any solo supplement charges And much more! Get complete details and download the FREE 12 Ways to Save on Solo Supplements Checklist on the Show Notespage https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com Connect with Kit: Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram  parks.kit  Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page

In Part II of our series on How To Save Money On Travel, we focus on ways you can save money on transportation, one of the biggest expenses of travel, ways flexibility can save you money and much more!  We also cover the Bonus Tip that will ensure you get the most satisfaction from your vacation dollars.  Get complete details and download the FREE 69 Ways to Save Money on Travel Checklist on the Show Notes. https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Get complete details and download the FREE 69 Ways to Save Money on Travel Checklist on the Show Notes.   https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com Connect with Kit: Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram  parks.kit   Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page      

Save Money On Travel Part One of How to Save Money On Travel covers general savings tips, plus how to save money on food and going out to eat, learn about the many ways to save AND stay for free or little cost, and how to communicate with work and home without driving up your cell bill. Get complete details and download the FREE 69 Ways to Save Money on Travel Checklist on the Show Notes. https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Connect with Kit: Get the FREE Monthly Newsletter Instagram  parks.kit   Twitter @Kit_Parks Pinterest Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures ATA Facebook page

Today's episode teaches you areas that you can tap into to build your travel savings account (or any saving account for that matter).  You'll learn ways to spend less, save more and earn more, and do so in way that work for YOU and your lifestyle and values. In the SPEND LESS area, you'll learn easy ways to cut costs on: Food and Drug  Entertainment  Coffee Shop  Transportation  Housing Utilities and Insurance Memberships ans Subscriptions Stuff You'll learn: How to save thousands with the 30 DAY RULE. Two easy exercises to help you cut costs that align with your values  The importance of paying yourself first Two important things you'll discover once you start saving The benefits of a visual savings jug Easy ways to tweak your spending Six ways to earn more money Two psychological tricks to make saving fun Download the logbook and get more details on the website. Be sure to check out the companion podcast on adventure travel destinations for inspiration and ideas for your next adventure!https://activetraveladventures.com Connect with Kit: Instagram parks.kit   Twitter@Kit_Parks   Facebook Group: Active Travel Adventures   ATA Facebook page    

Learn my 12 point system to make sure that you choose the right travel tour company for you and your expectations. In today’s show we will learn how to: Find and evaluate the different tour companies What to look for in the itinerary so you don’t get any unpleasant or expensive surprises How to find ‘your people’ so that you are traveling with fun people you like What questions to ask potential travel companies before you buy How to evaluate the lodging and meals How to judge the activity level and pace of the tour How to evaluate the guides, safety, equipment, eco-friendliness and impact of your tour on the local economy Why cost shouldn't be the main deciding factor The importance of special experiences Special tips to make sure you choose the tour company that best matches your expectations and wishes Visit the website for complete details and show notes here: Be sure to check out both of Kit Parks' adventure travel podcasts: https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Connect with Kit:   Instagram parks.kit   Twitter@Kit_Parks   Facebook Group: Active Travel Adventures   ATA Facebook page Email Kit      

Kit interviews Marcus Shapiro from Fit For Trips on this important episode on how to train both your body and mind for your next big adventure.   Proper training for your adventurecan determine whether you return home exhilarated and empowered, or miserable and in pain, or even injured. While it’s possible to speed up your training calendar, aim to ease in to building your body strength gradually so that you don’t inadvertently tweak your movements to accommodate a sudden new load.   Marcus says that even if you are short on time to properly train, you will get the benefit of even some conditioning ahead of time so you won't be as sore when you start your adventure. Today you will learn: How to choose a personal trainer About online personal training - Yes!  It's an economical alternative! How to develop your training plan It's OK to Dream Big! Whether you even need any special equipment - usually "NO"! And much more so that you will go on your adventure with confidence Use Promo code ATAKIT10 to save 10% off your online training with Fit For Trips - plus you'll be helping to support the program at no additional cost to you!  Thanks! Here’s the link to more details and photos about today’s episode and download the FREE Travel Planner for this adventure.   Get FREE Travel Planners and downloads from both the Active Travel Adventures AND the Adventure Travel Show podcast when you get the no spam once a month email from Kit.  Get the monthly newsletter here. Join the Active Travel Adventures Facebook Group Follow ATA on Twitter Follow ATA on Instagram Follow ATA on Pinterest Note that this episode first appeared on the companion Active Travel Adventures podcast in May of 2019.

What is a Walking holiday? A walking holiday is one where you walk, usually from one village to another via beautiful countryside, have lodging at the end of the day, often you have luggage transfer so you don't have to backpack and thus just carry a daypack.  In short, a walking holiday allows you to truly see the destination at a slow pace so that you can really understand the people and culture you encounter on your travels.  It's a wonderful way to explore and have an authentic adventure! In today's episode we cover the six benefits of taking a walking holiday, plus the six decisions you need to make, including: how to choose a destination, pace, when to go, how long to go, what to pack and we discuss training for your hike.   Visit the Adventure Travel Show podcast website for complete details, photos and a list of some recommended holiday walks! Links Mentioned in Today's Show: Cotswold Way West Highland Way UK's Best Walking Holidays Get FREE Travel Planners for the companion, Active Travel Adventures podcast episodes (and each month you will get an email from Kit with links to all future Travel Planners (no spam - I promise!).  Get the monthly newsletter here. Join the Active Travel Adventures Facebook Group Follow ATA on Twitter Follow ATA on Instagram Follow ATA on Pinterest

Learn the fifteen ways that adventure travel can improve your physical and mental well being - plus an anecdotal bonus sixteenth benefit. In this episode, first broadcast on the companion podcast, Active Travel Adventures in December of 2017, the benefits of adventure travel are outlined.   You can see a complete write up here. You will also hear an interview with Kit's 90+ year old mom, who started doing adventure travel in her 60's - a late bloomer just like her!   On the website, you can see a video of Patagonia guest and adventure traveller, Sandra Long - in her late 80's - doing competitive ballroom dancing.  Sandra hiked Patagonia at age 82!   You'll also find the link Kit mentioned for the Wall Street Journal article on the site. Be sure to join the Active Travel Adventures Facebook Group to share your upcoming adventures! Kit encourages you to +1 outside of your comfort zone when you plan your next adventure.  

On today's episode of the Adventure Travel Show podcast we learn how to build a campfire even in the rain.  Yes it's hard, time consuming and tedious, but it's doable.  You can learn how plus you'll learn how to make a fast fire when the weather cooperates!  Here's what we cover today: Four ingredients to make a camp fire plus my favorite cheap fire starter that guarantees to light Tips for choosing WHERE to build your fire Three fire building techniques Camp fire management tips Putting out your fire and how to check to be sure it's out How to start a fire when it's wet Visit the website for complete details. Other Helpful Links: Get the FREE Travel Planners and Checklists from Active Travel Adventures AND this, the Adventure Travel Show podcast by clicking HERE.  I do not spam you or sell your name and only email you once per month. Subscribe and rate the Active Travel Adventures podcast HERE.  We cover multi-day adventure holidays around the US and the world. Join the Facebook community of fellow adventure travelers and outdoor enthusiasts HERE. I love to hear from you with your feedback, questions, suggestions and just what you're up to!  Email me at kit at Active Travel Adventures dot com (sorry for the format - you know those spammers:(  Just type in the regular email format.  Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you! Directory of Active Travel Adventures podcast episodes  Directory of the Adventure Travel Show podcast episodes

NOTE:Below is a machine transcription. I am traveling off grid when this podcast episode is released and I didn’t have time to do the webpage before I left. If you email me, I can write you back when this page is up. Otherwise, please check back. Thanks for your patience and understanding! Kit 00:04                                     Welcome to the venture travel show podcast. I’m your host Keith Parks. About 10 years ago, I was wandering the stacks in my local library, one of my favorite restful things to do, and I’m one of the end caps. There’s a book on the history of the Appalachian trail. Now mind you, this is before the release of the movies, a walk in the woods and wild and I’d heard of the Appalachian trail, but I didn’t really know a whole lot about it. So I checked out the book and brought it home to read and I discovered that the Appalachian trail runs right through my home state in North Carolina. And not only that, that some of the people actually hiked the entire 2000 plus miles all at one time. I couldn’t believe it. I was fascinated by this and I decided that while I didn’t want to spend several months in my life walking the trail at one time, that I would like to do what they call section hiking, the Appalachian trail. 00:53                                     And so over the last oh 10 years or so, I’ve been doing little chunks as I have time. But I figured if I want to learn how to backpack first, I’m going to have to learn how to hike. This is before I did any of these outdoors with vendors at all. But this is what actually got me into this whole path of adventure travel. So happily with the help of the Internet, I googled hiking clubs and that’s when I discovered meetup. Another key find that also opened tremendous doors for me because I was relatively new to the triangle area and really hadn’t met anybody. So that not only helped me meet hiking friends, I met friends that have become lifelong friends. Just do that one clicking, try to find a hiking club. So that was a, a really key thing that actually really changed my life. So on the meetups, I found a group called [inaudible], which stands for triangle hiking and outdoor club. So I signed up for t hawk and at my first event, which was a multi mile hike in Umstead state park in Raleigh, I told the leader, Casey, what I wanted to do, that I wanted to do a little section Hank of the Appalachian trail. And gratefully he didn’t laugh at me and he was very encouraging and in many ways took me under his wing 01:59                                     Yet another t hog leader, Sherry was running a backpack conditioning series of hikes. So I signed up for that as well. We were instructed to bring our backpack and at this time I still had no idea what a backpack even was. I’d knew nothing, absolutely nothing like totally 100% clueless. And the only thing I could rustle up was I borrowed a book bag from somebody and I showed up with some books in this bag. I am sure that Sherry was inwardly rolling her eyes, but she was very sweet but she had to be wondering what on earth is this little princess doing here? 02:32                                     Okay. 02:32                                     And happily enough, I have to report later. Cher and I are also very good friends cause gratefully once Sherry found out that have a serious that I just was ignorant. She was very, very helpful and very encouraging of helping me figuring out this whole hiking and backpacking thing. And one really important thing that I’m really grateful for is the sound gear backpacking gear advice I got from the folks in this group. They saved me hundreds of dollars in potential bad purchases and this is something I’m really trying to help you with myself on this podcast is my way of paying it forward to all the helpful things that my t hog friends did for me because a t heart I was able to pull all the more experienced hikers and all the pros and cons of all the different gear and people are big gearheads. Everybody’s got their opinions and so this way I was able to make some wise decisions because the year can get really expensive. 03:26                                     So after my initial meeting with Casey, hanging out with Sherry and doing the conditioning things, we fast forward about three months and I set up my very first backpacking weekend with t hog and we went to Grayson highlands on the Appalachian trail in Virginia. It was absolutely gorgeous and Sherry planned it pretty well because this was a pretty easy backpacking trip, not an overly ambitious hike. I think we only did like six miles in the day before we set up camp. It was a challenging, but also encouraging in that we’re like, oh yeah, we could, we got this, we got it, we can do this. So that was a really smart thing that she did when she set that up. 04:01                                     Okay. 04:01                                     The next, I don’t know, maybe it was a weekend or two after that, I went out with Casey and four others really experienced backpackers and he let me just kind of tag along with them. And we went to Lynnville gorge now that was a hard backpacking hike and that last day, I swear don’t remember the name of the trail, but it was straight up, totally exposed, no trees. And it was hot, so I earned my stripes on that trip and then I think it was the following month after that that I did my very first long distance backpacking trip with my girlfriends, Jane and Jerry, and we went out for two weeks on the Appalachian trail and that was quite the backpacking adventure. I was so proud of myself. That was a really tough thing to do. It was a really tough hike. I think we did maybe 170 miles. The distance escapes me now and my body because I was doing the things I’m going to teach you today. I was super trained, I was super prepared. My gear was exactly right and I plan my food pretty well. 04:57                                     Yeah. 04:58                                     After that trip I was like, I could really call myself a backpacker. So what I’m going to hope to help you with today is to teach you via this podcast what my t hog hiking buddies taught me. We’re going to look at choosing your destination conditioning, your body planning, getting and testing your gear. 05:17                                     Okay. 05:18                                     How to plan your food. We’re going to deal with the logistics and the things that are encompassing along that as far as making sure you know how to use your map and your compass and leave no trace, all that kind of good stuff. So to begin with, you’ve got to choose your destination and what’s your adventure going to be about? What are you going to do? So for your first backpacking adventure, I’m going to suggest that you choose a place like Sherry did for us where we backpacked integration highlands only about six miles. So it wasn’t, we’re not trying to do the Bataan death march. All right. You’re gonna test your gear in that true adventure situation. Different than like when you’re practicing at home. 05:52                                     Yeah. 05:53                                     So at Grayson highlands, we had the ranger station was nearby. There’s lots of people. So it was a good way for us to, to get our feet wet in this whole backpack and experience. And we’re just doing it in baby steps. So for your first actual backpacking adventure, pick a relatively easy weekend trip, but you don’t want to do the actual backpack until after you conditioned yourself. We’re going to get to that in just a little bit. So if your easy destination goes well, then you step it up. Remember all, we’re always trying to plus one. So you do easy ones. Now you do a little harder one or maybe a little longer, one or multiple days because the body changes over a couple of days. So adding more days might be the way it did plus one. And then each time you go out, keep building on your experience, build the duration, build the difficulty until you feel fully comfortable that you’ve got your groove on. So let’s get our growth and how are we going to condition our bodies? 06:48                                     Okay? 06:49                                     Most people can teach their body to safely carry about 20% more weight than they are on their backs. My base weight of my pack of my gear, and that’s not including food and water, is about 18 pounds. My Hiking Buddy John, however likes to go, super lightweight and his base weight is down to about 10 pounds. But you’re gonna find it’s a trade off between comfort at night and comfort during the day, carrying all that weight. So if you want to be really comfortable at night, you’re going to be carrying a lot of weight during the day for that comfort. 07:19                                     Okay. 07:19                                     There’s also a monetary trade-off as it costs usually about at least a hundred bucks. I think even more these days. For every pound you want to try to reduce your pack weight. So if you want to get more high tech gear, every pound that you shave off is going to cost you about a hundred bucks. When I get my pack fully loaded up with food and water, it can weigh as much as 30 pounds. So let’s do a little bit of the math. Oh, a little under 150 pounds. Let’s use a 150 so 20% of 150 pounds is 30 pounds. Now, since I live in such a flat area, I generally try to train to about 35 36 pounds in hopes of trying to make up the difference of the fact that I don’t have the elevation practice as much as that as you might where you live. 08:02                                     Okay? 08:03                                     And they’ll also add in some practice on steps at the, at my local hospital just so I can stretch out those muscles and get them used to going up and down, up and down. But in any regards, you should try to never, never carry more than 25% of your body weight. There’s going to be times that you might have to start the trip off more if there’s no resupply stops on a lengthy trip. And at least on those, it’s the food weight and gradually that will go down. So how are you going to get your body used to carrying all this weight 08:32                                     If possible? You want to try to begin your training at least 12 weeks in advance. My friend Casey stays in condition constantly by carrying his backpack every single time he walks her hikes. So he never needs to retrain. I keep saying I want to do that, but in the current training, I’m turning for a trip that I’m gonna be taking next month. I’ve been training on the pavement around where I live now and it’s just brutal on my knees and my hips. So I’ve abandoned that. And now have to do a longer hike at the beach on the weekends so that way I can take my time, I’ll do like three hours with my pack and I’m not just killing my joints. 09:08                                     So when you beginning to condition your body, you just simply start out with a low weight and then you’re gradually each week working your way up to your target backpack weight and you’re going to add no more than 10% new weight each week. So we’re going to use me as an example. If I put on my pack and I put some weight in there, I can barely feel about 15 pounds cause my back is somewhat conditioned and all the time anyway, you might find that you need to start out lighter if you’ve never carried any way to new back before. So you put on a pack and then just take some water bottles and keep adding a water bottle until you say, okay, I feel like I’ve got weight on it. But you don’t want it to feel heavy. You just want to feel like you’ve got some weight on there. That’s your starting weight. And so again, I just to add my weight, I just, I saved some Gatorade bottles, which are nice and sturdy or you can use milk jugs or regular water bottles and just add a little bit each time until you’re adding your 10% each week. 10:02                                     So you start with your starting weight whenever you figured out where it just feels like you’ve got weight but it’s not too heavy. You feel like a piece of cake, you know, I noticed it, but it’s not a big deal. So for me, that’s around 15 pounds. So if I want to add 10% each week, that means it can be adding in the beginning about a pound and a half getting up to two pounds and eventually up to three pounds as that 10% kind of accumulates, Kinda like compound interest. So for me to train, I need at least 10 weeks to do this at the right pace of the 10% dish in each week. So the first week I’m 15 pounds. If I add 10% that’s one and a half pounds. So week two I’m 16 and a half pounds and I’m 18 pounds, 20 pounds, 22242720930 two finally ending at week number 10 at 35 pounds. 10:47                                     I’ve also found that putting a bath towel in my pack helps kind of keep the water bottles from banging into me and hit me a little bit in the back. So play around with that. Or you may find just putting heavier things in their bags, a little sand bags or whatever. It might be helpful as well. Whatever works for you. I also encourage you to listen to episode 46 of the act of travel adventures podcast where I interviewed Marcus Shapiro from fit for trips. He’s a personal trainer and one of my affiliates and he offers a custom online training company. So this episode will go into more details on how to prepare your body for all kinds of adventures and he’ll teach you about the balance and flexibility and strength and conditioning your muscles, et cetera. And he’s able to even custom design a program for you. 11:28                                     And if you decide to use him, make sure you use the coupon code at Tech Kit 10 88 kit 10 and you’ll get a 10% discount and you’ll also be helping to support the show as you do anytime you use any of my links on either this podcast website or actor travel adventures website does. I appreciate that. So anyhow, so over the next couple of months you’re going to be conditioning your body to get ready to backpack. So during this time, what else do you need to be doing? Really important. Number three, you gotta plan your gear. The first thing I want to tell you is you do not, you do not need all the junk that the outfitters save. You have to have this that’s garbage. When it comes to carrying urine, you’re back less is definitely more and it’s a lot cheaper too. I get it that you want to make sure you have everything you need. 12:14                                     I get that, I get that. But you’ve got to remember that trade off of being comfortable during the day or comfortable at night. So what I mean, what does this mean to you? Okay, do you want to have this elegant sleeping, really fat, lush sleeping pad, really big sleeping bag, a pillow, the more comfort you want at night. Do you want a camp chair? All those things weigh and you’re going to be feeling that weight all the way during the day. So you’ve got to make that trade off. And frankly for me, at the end of the day, I’m so tired I could probably sleep on a rock. So as much as possible, I choose comfort during the day. I have put together what I think is for me the perfect packing list. That’s, you’ll find that on episode number four of this podcast, I find it’s not too much and not too little. 13:02                                     I use every single thing in that pack virtually every day except for hopefully not the emergency kit. But remember my packing list, I’m in warm season, temperate climate. I don’t expect to be dealing with any freezes. I can get down to like 40 degrees Fahrenheit and be fine, but I don’t, I, I’m not set up for freezing temperatures and all that. So if you do more rugged things, you’re gonna need more gear than my list. But just for basic backpacking, this summer, temperate weather, my list is a pretty darn good list. I’m going to put the list on this page as well. So you’ll have that checklist on both webpages. And remember too, you don’t have to buy gear all the time. Sometimes you can rent gear and often you can borrow gear from your friends. Remember, usually at least once a year, all gear goes on sale. 13:52                                     If you’ve got the time to wait, wait for the sales at the Rei, 20% off coupons or wherever it is that you’re shopping. That way you can get the best possible quality, lightweight gear at the least possible price. And to me, your most important gear purchases are your hiking boots or shoes. Check out episode 16 for some advice on that. Your tent or your tarp, whatever your sleeping cover, your you’re backpacking home. See episode 11 for that. And then I haven’t put it out yet, but I’m going to do an episode on choosing the proper sleepy bag and pad. Hopefully I’ll have that out and it’s gotta be awhile, but be on the lookout for that. When that does come out, those three items are your three most important purchases in my mind and there also tend to be the most expensive, but they’re gonna make the most difference in the comfort that you have on your trip. So if you don’t want to make a buying booboo, you want to take your time when you’re picking your footwear, your attend to your tarp and your sleeping and pad. I’ve got a couple other episodes that might be helpful for you that’ll help you figure out what goes in your pack and that is the all important emergency kit, episode number two, and how to treat your water episode number three. You need both, but the brands of what you choose aren’t as critical as other three items we just discussed. 15:14                                     Hey, you want to pick up some cheap use gear, make a road trip down to Neil’s gap in Georgia. That’s the first real trail town heading northbound on the Appalachian trail. So many of the backpackers that are doing the 80 through hiking, the 80 after trekking, just that first challenging 30 or so miles, they realize that maybe they didn’t need that camp chair. Maybe these boots are a little heavy and I can get away with hiking shoes and maybe I get rid of the pillow. I mean their ship of backstop, they’re depositing stuff. They realize, ah, I didn’t really need it after all. Now did it make an exception? In my age, I take this little small baby down pillow as my luxury item, but literally there’s nothing else in my pack that I don’t need. Like I said, with the hurtful exception of my emergency kit. 16:02                                     Yeah. 16:02                                     Once you have assembled all your gear, it’s really important that you test it out and know how to use it. You do not want to be beat tired. At the end of the day it’s dark and now you’re trying to set up your 10 for the first time and you can’t figure out how to do it. You’re going to be exhausted, frustrated and in tears. So you want to practice this at home and ideally even sleep in it. That way you can learn some patterns. Before my very first backpacking trip, every Tuesday night, I think it was for like six weeks, rain or shine, hot or cold. I set up my tarp in my backyard and slept in it this way. I knew where I stored my headlamp. I knew where I kept the toilet paper. I knew where all my little house, my chapstick, really important to me. I’m chapstick addict, but I knew in the dark I could reach out to know exactly where the things were cause I developed habits and that made all my future decision making about what goes where. When I set up camp, so simple, you also wanna make sure you know how to use your stove, Cook some meals on it and if you think you’re just going to eat oatmeal for breakfast every morning, I’m going to suggest that you try this at home first for a week and see how quickly you get sick of that same food. Particularly if you don’t have the luxury of adding tasty but heavy fresh fruits to your oatmeal. 17:15                                     I personally don’t even use a stove. I use a little plan card size. Well I guess I call it a stove is the EBIT pocket stove. It looks like a metal deck of cards that opens up in the middle and then there’s a little fuel cube that I liked that on fire and that takes about 15 minutes for it to burn out. But that’s enough time for me to boil some water to heat up my dinner, make some tea or hot chocolate. So that works great for me. There’s nothing to break. All I have to do is light the little cube. So I like that. I don’t think I’m the only one I know that uses that most everybody I know uses a gas sto, so check those out and see what works for you. But make sure you know whatever you’re using, you know how to use it and if it’s something that can break in, how to fix it. 17:55                                     I also want to refer you to Lucy and episode number eight where she shares some tips on nutrition in outdoor adventures. I recommend taking a re listen to that and you’re going to need some nutritious food to shore up your body for all the demands that you’re making of it, but you also want to add some fluff foods like candy corn in Lucy’s case, those are going to give you that little burst of energy. Let’s say you have a steep climb and you’ve got to get up there. Having some simple carbs are going to just fuel your energy levels just to help you get up to the top of the hill and let’s face it, if you’re going to be out for a long time backpacking, you’re going to need a lot of calories and junk food packs the most calories for the least amount of weight and it’s all about the weight baby. 18:34                                     When it comes to backpacking, the first few days you’re out, your appetite is not gonna change that much over normal. I made that mistake on that first section hike of the 80 I brought way too much food for that first section because I hadn’t developed my appetite yet. It takes usually for me about three days before I start getting that ravenous where I’m really churning through the calories and really burning the calories and my metabolism just goes into high gear. I find even when I’m backpacking that are not really that hungry during the day it says dinner time and get ravenous, but during the day I have to almost force myself to snack a little, just a little bit during the day just to keep my energy levels up. 19:13                                     The general rule of thumb is about two pounds of food per day. I said the first couple of days for me, I can usually get away with around a pound and a half and then after three or four days I need that two pounds. So your goal is going to be to take what you actually need hopefully with variety and then maybe bring an emergency days worth of food just to be on the safe side. Here’s a typical menu for me for a day breakfast. I like instant mashed potatoes and I chop up some pieces of beef jerky and a cup of tea lunch. I’ll spread a whole wheat tortilla with peanut butter sprinkled with raisins and roll that up. That can last for days without going bad on you for snacks, trail mix, but at least for me, I’ve got to bring different flavors because that two week trip, that first two week trip I had the same kind I got so sick of trail mix. I’ll bet you it was five years before I could eat it again. For breaks, I like some powdered hot chocolate or tea, maybe a snickers bar or some peanut butter crackers and dinner. I like to eat a good quality freeze dried meal, so I will splurge a little bit on that. 20:19                                     And again, I want to emphasize you want to give yourself as much variety as possible even though you think, oh, it’s easy, I’ll just pack the same thing. You’re going to get so sick of it. Give yourself a righty, do yourself a favor there and bring spices. They don’t weigh a whole lot and they could make the same thing tastes differently. 20:35                                     And there’s one great thing about backpacking your dinner, no matter how crummy looking it is, is going to be the best tasting meal that you can remember. I don’t know what it is about backpacking, but dinner tastes fabulous, so we’ve got our gear or food or planned, everything’s good. Now we’ve got to deal with the logistics and what do I mean by that? All right, you’re training, you’re preparing and all that, but you’ve got to lay out and plan all the things that go into the hike. There’s few questions you need to ask yourself. Number one, are you doing an out and back loop or do you need to figure out how to get back to your car? How are you going to do it? Is there a shuttle service available? Can you take a bus or do you have to backtrack? Number two, have you checked the weather to make sure a, you should still go and B, you had the proper gear for this adventure. If the weather is as forecasted and allow for the worst on the downside. Three. Have you notified your loved ones for your plans and I mean detailed plans like the trail names? Do they know when to expect you back and if they don’t hear from you by a certain time, when do they need to sound the alarm and to whom? 21:45                                     Four have you learned how to read your map and properly use a compass in case you get lost? I want you to listen to episode number six of what to do if you do get lost in the woods. My friend Jerry, the one I mentioned earlier in the story, she happened to get lost on the Appalachian trail and unfortunately she didn’t know what to do and it cost her her life. I don’t want that happening to you. 22:06                                     Okay? 22:06                                     The time to learn all these skills is before you actually head out into the wild. 22:11                                     Yeah. 22:11                                     Number five, do you know outdoor etiquette? What are you supposed to do with your use toilet paper? What are the campfire rules? How do you store your food? Be sure to listen to episode number 10 for refresher and leave no trace and other important matters that we all need to be practicing when we’re out enjoying the wild, it’s getting really crowded and so we all need to do our part. 22:32                                     Okay, 22:33                                     And finally number six, have you checked with the Rangers or whoever’s in charge of wherever it is that you’re going to see if you need any permits? What are the current fire restrictions? Are there any wildlife issues or other issues you need to be aware of? If bears are a concern, you want to check out episode number five on how to hike safely and bear country and before you head out, make sure you check in with the rangers or whomever to let the local people know what your plans are. 23:03                                     So now you’ve got your body ready and I’m sure you’re excited about your trip, but you need to make sure you’re also mentally ready. Remember that at some parts of many of the days you’re going to experiencing what we refer to as type two fun. If you’re not familiar with this phrase, type two fun is when it’s quite miserable at the time. But when you’re nice and safe and warm, talk back at home, reminiscing about it becomes one of your favorite memories and one of your favorite stories to tell. It could be something like climbing a brutal assent or some kind of a mishap. You know the saying the adventure really begins when something goes wrong. Are you mentally prepared to deal with the things that might go wrong? Do you know? Basic first aid. And I know you learned how to use your compass, right? So when you set out on a backpack and adventure, it’s often a fun mix of type one fun, meaning that you’re loving it that whole time. But there’s also going to be a sprinkling of type two fun, which for many of us is that last slug at the end of the day until you find that good campsite tear. Are you listing right? Remember those last three miles that come down? Shitty pole and Costa Rica, that was type two fun, right? But we were so proud of ourselves when we finally made it down that mountain. 24:18                                     If you follow these guidelines and have chosen inappropriate destination for your skill level, you get your body and your mind ready, your gear’s ready. It’s all tested. Your food is planned out, you’ve organized all the logistics. You were finally ready to go out in the woods and backpack and I’m so excited for you. I do believe that unplugging and spending several days in the wild is one of my favorite mental therapies and does wonders for my figure too. Once you learned to backpack, you’re going to have access to some views that you can only see if you backpack and they can be extraordinary. You’ll go to places that few people get to see in this world because it will take a new days to get there with no motor support. If you ever considered backpacking but weren’t sure that you could do it, I promise you, if you follow these steps, little by little, you’re going to be able to do it and you’re going to feel so rewarded for your efforts. 25:12                                     Okay? 25:12                                     Please share this episode with your friends that you think might want to expand their hiking repertoire by adding backpack into the mix. And as always, let me know what you think. You can always reach me@kittatactivetraveladventures.com. Next up on the companion active travel adventures podcast or destination podcast. We’re going to Bolivia, and this is a really cool episode. We were having so much fun. We went long, so I actually turned into two episodes. Can’t wait to share that one with you. And then the following week we’ll be back on the show, the adventure travel show podcast. I’m going to talk about the different ways to start a fire, another key skill that you need to know whenever you’re in the outdoors. So until then, thanks again for listening. This is kit parks adventure on.  

Below is a machine transcription of this episode (and there is bound to be loads of errors).  I am currently traveling off grid and didn’t have a chance to work up the complete webpage before I left, so this is the best I could do in the meantime.  Either check back later, or if you email me, I’ll write you back to let you know when I’ve got the post up.  Thanks for your understanding!  Kit   00:04                                     Going into an outfitter to divide new hiking boots or shoes can give you a migraine. You’ll see foot were labeled not just hiking boots or shoes, but also trail runners, ultra light boots, cross trainers, hiking sandals and walking boots to name a few in the hiking boot versus shoe battle. How do you determine which is the best hiking shoe for you and your feet? That’s what we’ll be discussing today. 00:27                                     Welcome to the venture trial show podcast. I’m your host kip parks and that’s why we’re going to be working on today. We’re going to try to figure out what is the best footwear for us to wear for our different hiking adventures and we not only have to worry about the type of shoe, we’ve got to consider the prices too cause the prices run the gamut as well and they can get really up there so it’s not something you want to make a booboo on the answer to what to wear and you knew this was coming is it depends. We’re going to look at the different features and then you can compare what the different features do for you against the general environment you’ll be hiking in, but regardless of the charts and the information that we’re going to discuss today, and I’ll have all this on the website at adventure travel show, podcast.com/shoes the key feature of any hiking shoe is comfort. 01:13                                     Every manufacturer’s mold is different. Some have wider widths than others, and so my own size eight in one brand might feel great but aren’t going to give me nearly enough tow room or with in another brand. If your budget permits, you might want to buy a couple of different boots or shoes so that you have the right gear for whatever your individual hike is going to be. For example, I use my boss or Wask, I’m not sure how he’s supposed to say it, my boss boots whenever I’m doing any serious hiking or on some challenging terrain, but the trails are well maintained. I’m usually gonna opt for my mural hiking shoes later on this month. I’m heading on a rafting and hiking trip in Idaho. And so for that trip I’m just going to be packing my hiking sandals that have a toe guard so I can use them both as my water shoe and my hiking shoe. 01:58                                     So in deciding what we’re going to wear, we need to actually consider a couple of different things. Let’s look at the different types. First. Number one, the heavy hiking boot back country trailblazers should consider a heavy boot. If your hike is gonna include some large bouldering and bushwhacking. The heavy hiking boots are going to have some serious tractions on the soul and they’ll sometimes even have a cramp on like tip. These boots are heavy, not just hiking, but they’re also heavy on the wallet. Often they’re made a leather and they will require a sizable breaking in period, but once they’ve molded to your feet, they’re going to protect your feet and all sorts of difficult terrain. But you can expect some blisters, especially in the beginning. Heavy hiking boot is going to offer you some excellent ankle support and their good grip is an asset on steep slopes and boulders. 02:49                                     Plus a heavy hiking boot is going to last the longest of all. The hiking, footwear, mud, snow, and water will slough off these boots the best, and they’re warmer. If you’re going to be hiking and cold climates than a hiking shoe would be hiking boots also provide the best ankle and underfoot support, but they’re going to feel weighty and clunky compared to the other options. The more rocks and debris you hike on, the more you’re going to appreciate wearing a hiking boot. However, depending on the material, they can take a long, long time to dry out leather, it seems to take forever. They’re also the hardest to pack. I’ve got some mid weight boots that I’m bringing on an upcoming trip and I’m going to have to wear them on the plane, otherwise they take up half of my suitcase. So you know, I’m gonna Look Trey Chic on that plane. Right? And if you hike in rainy or snowy conditions, a boot’s going to be preferable because they’re high tops combined with waterproof hiking pants can keep the water out of your boots and the higher ankle coverage can also be helpful when hiking among briers and other off trail treats. They can cut you up and bruise you. 03:53                                     You can also get a waterproof boot. Some hiking foot wear has gore-tex in it, which makes the boot waterproof. It’s great if you’re crossing puddles and streams, but they don’t breathe as well so that can make your feet sweat. I personally prefer to have my feet breathe. I swear they have lungs so I don’t do these, but other people swear by them. So again, this is going to be down to the comfort. What do your feet like? So next on the list after the heavy hiking boot is the mid weight boot, like the kind of mentioned and bringing on my upcoming hike. This is my go to when I’m going to be in a serious mountain. I don’t do the heavy rock climbing mountain, he kind of things. So for what I consider a difficult hike and the kinds that we cover on this show at the four and five level where they’re hard and challenging but not ever see hard. 04:35                                     This is usually a suitable shoe, but I consider these my backpacking boots so my boots have stiff souls that cover the ankle for a little bit more support. You can get them either in synthetic materials, which is lighter and breathe better, which is what I choose, or leather, but they’re still heavy and you’re going to feel the weight of them at the end of a long hiking day. And I would suggest you break these in at least a few days before taking them on a long hike just to be in the safe side. If you’re hiking in shallow slush, some snow, some small puddles or streams, choosing a waterproof boot is going to keep your feet dryer than with the shoes and the boots. Also going to provide you with a tad more protection if you’re hiking in snake territory, 05:19                                     plus you’re less likely to get pebbles in your boot than if you’re wearing a shoe. Although you can put some gators on which are these little cloth cover things that can cover over your shoes to help keep debris out of your shoes. So we’ll talk about that a little bit later. At the top of your boot there’s got to be a metal lacing hook that allows you to tighten your shoelaces even further for more strength and stability. The head on some really challenging terrain, so we’ve covered the boots. Another thing people are starting to see more and more on the trail are trail running shoes. These offers are usually a little bit more ankle support than a hiking shoe because people are actually running on the trails over rocks and roots strewn trails with them. You’re going to find a little bit more padding and a sturdier soul than a regular trail shoe. 06:04                                     [inaudible] 06:04                                     my recommendation is after my research is only by these, if you plan to actually run on the trails because they were great for running, but they’re really not designed for actual hiking and so actually they won’t work quite as well for you. A trail running shoe should feel great as soon as you put them on. 06:22                                     So unless you’re actually running and you don’t want something so heavy, then you want to look at getting a trail shoe or a hiking shoe. These have thicker soles than traditional running shoes, but they’re lighter and more comfortable than boots and make sure that you’re actually buying a trail shoe and not just some fashion shoe that looks like one. Otherwise you might find that on the quote unquote fashion one that the stitches in the souls are not going to hold up to the terrain and the job that you are going to be given them and like the trail running shoes. These should feel great as soon as you put them on, you’re going to find trail shoes cooler and warm weather as well. You also with the trail runners and hiking sandals and trail shoes and hiking shoes have more flexible souls so they bend more, make an easier to, if you’re trying to rock hop across the stream and the last choice is hiking sandals. 07:13                                     This is what I’m taking on my rafting trip. They’re lightweight, they’re great for water crossings, they let your feet breathe, however, you’re going to get some rocks and some small sticks in them, so you’re gonna have to pause to remove them more often. Make sure you get one with a toe guard and don’t even think about wearing hiking sandals. If you’re climbing a screen strewn hill, you’re going to go nuts trying to get those pebbles out. So questions to ask yourself before buying a hiking boot or shoe number one, are you a hiking Newbie? If you’re just learning to hike and your eyes and your feet haven’t yet developed, great natural foot placement, consider getting a hiking shoe with a sturdier soul than you might normally need. This might help your ankles until you get your your eye foot coordination going worse. You don’t even have to think about it. Your foot just knows right where to go when it sees the train. Number two, consider the trail terrain that you think you’re gonna be hiking on. The smoother, more well-maintained the trails, the less important the sturdiness of the soul is. If you’re gonna be crossing shallow creeks, you might want to consider a waterproof one or if you do like I do get a breathable hiking shoe and they dry up pretty quickly. 08:25                                     Number three, ankle strength. You’ve got to consider your ankle streak, the weaker your ankles, the stronger ankle support you’re going to need. If you have ever, I mean, ever sprained your ankle even as a kid. Unfortunately it’s always going to be a little bit weaker than you’d like it to be, so you’re better off stepping up your ankle. Support on the adventure travel show podcast number one we talk about what to do if you do sprain your ankle in the wild and I’ve got a video that I’ll be posting on the site as well of how to test your ankle strength on your own. The fourth thing you want to think about is the pack. Wait, are you going to be carrying a light day pack? Are you going to be doing some heavy duty backpacking? If you’re going to be carrying significant weight, you need the added strength and support of a heavier boot. 09:13                                     Number five, how long are you going to be out in the trail? If you’re going to be hiking all day long, you’ve got two things to consider. The first one is weight. The sturdier, the hiking boot or shoe. The more it’s going away. So at the end of the day, your feet are gonna feel like lead weights. I’ve read that the weight on your feet takes four to six times the energy to lift in the same weight on your back. So for example, let’s say your boot weighs two and a half pounds, but your shoes weigh a pound, then your boots, you’re going to feel like you’re carrying an extra six to nine pounds on your back compared to just the shoes. Ouch. 09:49                                     However, at the end of the day, you’re going to be tired and you’re going to tend to make more mistakes, such as not lifting your feet high enough. That extra ankle strength is gonna come in handy. So you’re going to be trading off the heavy weight of the shoes that are gonna make your feet feel like lead with the strength that you get. If you do make the mistake at the end of the day, it’s going to give you that little bit of extra support that could make the difference between twisting your ankle or not. So again, it’s going to depend and it’s a trade off. The sixth thing we want to consider is our hiking pace. If you are truly trail running, you simply can not do this in a boat. Plus you’re gonna need the lighter weight for speed. Some trail runners have a grippy rubber compound that helps your feet stick better on wet rocks and roots. 10:36                                     And the final thing you want to think about is how long do you want your shoes to last? Most trail shoes and runners are going to give you about 500 miles of service. However, a good pair of sturdy boots might give you a thousand miles. So let’s go through this one more time. Heikki newbies want to beef up their ankle support. Number two, you want to consider the terrain the heavier the train, the Sturdier, the boot. Number three, consider your ankle strength. What is your particular ankle strength into the test on the website? Number four, consider your pack weight. The more weight, the Sturdier the boot, how long you’re going to be out in the trail. There’s a trade off between the weight of the boot versus the strength of them. Ankle support, depending on how tired you’re gonna be at the end of the day. And you want a number six, look at your hiking pace. If you need to go fast, you need to go light. And finally, number seven, how long do you want them to last? Your hiking boots or shoes or an investment? 11:33                                     Okay, now let’s look at what kind of fit you should get out of your hiking boot or your hiking shoe. Number one, whatever hiking footwear you choose, it should feel snug but not tight. Remember that your feet are going to swell as the day goes on. So some even recommend, if in doubt, go up a half a size. You know, some people say, oh, would get a size bigger. Don’t do that because your foot is going to slosh around too much in the shoe. And if your shoe is too loose, you’re more prone to twisting your ankle and you’re not going to have enough ankle support. So it should be snug but not tight and not to this number two, your toes should not be all the way to the top of the shoe unless you planning on losing all of your toenails whenever you descend down a mountain. 12:13                                     And that happened to my mother. Not Fun. It’s been 30 years and she still has ms form toenails. From that and while we’re talking about the, to keep your toenails clipped when you’re going to go hiking. Number three, every manufacturer uses a different mold. Does the shoe of a particular manufacturer give your particular arches to proper support? Are they wide enough? Do they cradle your heel comfortably? Can you wiggle your toes around? Do you have plenty of room for your toes to move around? A good outfitter will have some place in the store that you can practice the ascent and descent so you can see whether or not your toes are being jammed in the front when you’re going downhill. You don’t want to be like my mom and lose your tail nails going down because there’s just not enough room for your toes, so you want to wear them in the store or at home. 12:58                                     If you’re shopping online for at least 30 to 60 minutes and wear them with the socks you plan to use with them. Like I said, a good outfitter is going to have a practice hill somewhere in the store that you can practice going up and down. Take advantage of it. Try Rolling your foot to the side. See how does it feel? Is there any stitching that’s rubbing you the wrong way? If it’s bugging you in the store, it’s going to really bug you on the trail. At the end of the day, if your feet aren’t happy, you’re not happy. Number five, speaking of happy feet, many people swear by the happy feet inserts. Consider buying a quality insert and then try them on together with the inserts. When your shoes get wet, you can remove the inserts and the other two out separately and they should dry quicker. Number six, consider the brand. 13:44                                     I have favorite brands that work well with my feet. It’s sometimes when a manufacturer comes out with a new edition, the new shoe doesn’t work quite as well for me as the old. So whenever I find a pair that I really like, if I love them, I’ll go back and buy a second pair for that very reason. So when the first one wears out, I know I’ve got a winner. So even though I have certain brands that my feet like there’s still some variances within that brand. And since hiking footwear is one of the most important outdoor gear purchases that we make, it pays a try on the different brands to find the shoe that works best for your feet. Currently I’m wearing the Vasquez hiking boots and the Merrell hiking shoes and chuck us hiking sandals and I’m choosing what to wear. Depending on the training I’ll be hiking in and I tried to go at the lightest weight shoe that will best protect my feet and my ankles for my adventure. 14:34                                     The seventh consideration of course is quality. Good hiking boots and good hiking shoes are important and I wouldn’t necessarily buy cheap hiking boots. You want to look for quality stitching of materials. We foresee all, there’s almost everything goes on sale at least once during the year and get the best quality hiking shoes you can rather than buying cheap hiking shoes. So hiking shoes versus hiking boots. To me the best trail boat depends on what I’m going to be doing and where I got to think about how portable do I need my footwear to be if I’m traveling. Lots of people love waterproof walking boots, but I personally prefer this synthetic materials that breathe. I find they dry out quickly and I’d rather have cool feet most of the time in exchange for occasional wet feet. My trail hiking shoes seem to dry drought quickly once the rain stops and I’m always wearing wool socks year-round and just different thicknesses depending on the season. 15:26                                     So even if my feet are wet, there’s always still warm in the winter and they’re always breathing. Sometimes I worry that manufacturers just shrink their men’s hiking boots and call them hiking boots for women instead of making women’s hiking shoes specifically for women like me. That’s why it really is important for you to try before you buy or else buy from an online company that gives a great return policy. The bottom line is my favorite trekking shoes are whichever one I’m wearing on the trail because I follow the guidelines above and choose the right hiking gear for each particular adventure and when you’re in doubt, err on the side of extra support on the website. I’ve got a video that’ll help you test the strength of your own ankles. Plus links to my doc on the run interview where we talk about ankle strength and what to do if you sprain your ankle in the wild. 16:12                                     I consider that a must listen episode. You don’t think spray Nichols would be interesting. It’s a really interesting interview. He does a great job. I’ve also got links on the website to recommend and shoes, boots and gators, and if you use my links at no additional cost to you, you’re going to be helping to support this show. The costs do add up over time, so I appreciate that. And if you are going to get gators, gators like I said, or the little like fabric coverings that snap onto your shoes to make sure that debris or to try to keep the debris out of your shoes. One of the more popular brands is the dirty girl. But please use my link because if you just Google that, you’re liable to go to some websites you’d rather not see. So please use Manning’s instead on that. I’d appreciate that. 16:52                                     I’d like to know what you think. Where do you stand in the boot versus shooed debate, right? And tell me what shoes you prefer. I’d love to hear from you. You can always reach me at kit, at active traveled ventures.com and also just let me know what you think of the new show next week on the companion show, the act of travel adventures podcast, where we go to destinations. We’re going to be going to the little known mummy range. It’s in the rocky mountains. I just love learning about magnificent areas to explore that haven’t really been discovered. And then the following week on this show, the adventure travel show podcast, we’re going to look at what you need to learn in order to begin backpacking. I appreciate you listening. Until next time, this is kit parks at venture on.  

Below is a machine transciption of this episode (and there is bound to be loads of errors).  I am currently traveling off grid and didn’t have a chance to work up the complete webpage before I left, so this is the best I could do in the meantime.  Either check back later, or if you email me, I’ll write you back to let you know when I’ve got the post up.  Thanks for your understanding!  Kit   00:05                                    I had to get across the river. I lost my footing for a moment and found myself stalled in the middle of the deepest and fastest part of the stream. As I tried to get better footing the river current sweat feet from underneath me and I immediately fell face down into the river. I was immediately hit with a wave of cold from the water that had been ice nearly hours before I was swept downstream with my pack on. I was underwater and couldn’t preach. I tried unsuccessfully to get a toe hold on the river bottoms who would get on my feet. I realized I was in a very serious situation. No one knew where I was. I had no idea what was downstream. Was there a log or a pile of logs and rocks below me that I can get caught up in? Was my gear and my sleeping bag wet? Was I even going to be able to get out of this welcome 00:57                              Welcome to the Adventure Travel Show podcast. I’m your host Kit Parks. The intro today was an excerpt I read from an article by the Pacific Crest Trail Association titled I was swept away crossing a river on the Pacific crest trail written by Charles Williams, who I did try to reach out to, but unfortunately it was not able to catch up with him prior to this recording. But I will put a link to his very fine article in the show notes and on the website for this episode. Today we’re going to be talking about the best practices to help you get across river safely. Believe it or not, that’s one of the most dangerous things that we do when we’re out in the wild. People might be afraid of heights or snakes or bites or the cold or the heat, but what gets us the most is crossing the rivers. So today we’re going to learn the best tips of how to do so safely. What we need to look out for ahead of time, what to do if something goes wrong and we slip and fall into the water and the things that we need to do to give us the best shot at getting to the other side quickly, efficiently, and safely. This is a super important episode that I hope you’ll share, so let’s get started. 02:07                                     Okay. 02:08                                     Like I said, many hikers are worried about bears, snakes, lightning, and why you should definitely need to know what to do when you encounter these. Your greatest risk of injury or worse is crossing rivers without a bridge. Did you know that the number one way that people die in the national parks in the U S is from drowning? It’s also one of the leading causes of death on the Pacific coast trail and to beat a dead horse, it is the number one way that we harm ourselves when we’re out in the wild. Before we begin, let’s talk a minute about rivers themselves. 02:41                                     Okay. 02:41                                     The river, think of the river. It’s something that striates into different horizontal currents. So try to picture a cake with different layers, several layers, and each layer instead of being cake is a moving current. The top layer or the icing is the fastest moving current. While the bottom layer where your feet are is the slowest. However, unlike the top icing, the side icing is also slower moving. And so what this means to you is that even though you might have your feet firmly planted on the riverbend, that stronger middle layer of the cake and even that top layer can still carry you away. And that’s what happened to Charles in the intro. 03:21                                     Okay? 03:22                                     And love you need to remember too, is because the sides are slower. You may not realize it until you’re out in the middle of the river, that it’s much faster and much stronger than you thought. Even with the tests that we’re going to be doing to see whether or not we think it’s safe to cross the river. 03:38                                     So the things we want to do, even before we even begin our hike is number one, let’s find out what the current water levels are. Were there any recent rains? How big is the snow melt runoff? You want to check with the parks of the Rangers, ask around with the locals. If you’re on the coastal areas, get a tide chart and when you’re deciding whether or not to cross a river, you need to consider the skill level and the comfort level of everyone in your group because the weakest member sets the tone and sometimes it’s just best to turn around or else wait until the water level subsides and conditions get better. 04:18                                     When we get to the river, what’s the next thing we want to look at? We want to consider hidden hazards. Submerge rocks and trees can be covered with moss and they’re really slippery, so you want to look, if you do slip, what is shortly downstream? Is there going to be a waterfall that you could possibly go over? I have a girlfriend that I and my hiking group, she lost one of her girlfriends that went over the fall. That’s the one that’s just after turtleback falls, which I have a great photo of me jumping up as a great fall. They have a little roped area. You’re not supposed to go past that. She was standing on the edge on the other side of that rope, slipped on a rock and over that waterfall she plunged to her death. So you want to see what’s further downstream. If things go wrong, what could happen to you? 05:02                                     Okay. 05:03                                     If you see there’s a waterfall, you may want to go further upstream or possibly even go past it, followed the river and go downstream and go across the river on the downside of the waterfall 05:14                                     [inaudible] 05:14                                     because if you fall and if you slip, you do not want to get carried over that fall. Look for big rapids and boulders. You don’t want to slip and get banged up or worse than there. What kind of river bed are you crossing? Are you looking at algae, cover rocks or sand? Obviously the algae rocks are going to add more risk, so you need to be especially cautious and you need to pay attention to where the river’s bending because if you slip and get carried downstream, look to see what’s down that corner because that’s where you’re liable to end up. Is it a pile of river debris? 05:51                                     Okay. 05:52                                     If you see a down tree or Bush in the stream, otherwise referred to as a strainer, you always want to stay downstream of that obstacle because if you should happen to fall in and hit the strainer, you’re going to find out why it’s called that it strains the water but not the people and makes you trapped and can suck you under. It’s an incredibly dangerous hazard. If you’re wearing convertible pants, you want to take off the lower legs, it’s going to give you less drag and it won’t be as cold when you do get across and if it’s really cold out, consider actually stripping down to your Andes so that you could have dry clothes to put on when you reach the other side, 06:33                                     if you have true hiking sandals, and by that I mean proper hiking sandals that are strapped securely around your foot and your ankle. You can put those on so your hiking shoes don’t get wet. Tie your hiking boots to the back of your pack or drip them around your neck. But remember they’re going to be clunking around and that can often make you a little bit off balance. Sometimes it’s safer just to walk through the water rather than boulder jump. You never want to cross a river and flip flops. The current can easily make them slip off your feet, causing you to slip and fall into the water. 07:05                                     And if you think, oh, I’ll just go barefoot, that’s not a good idea. Think again, you’re liable to cut your feet on the rocks. In the sticks, you’re better off to have what shoes and if you have to wear your hiking boots to cross the river, take out the soul so at least there’ll be dry on the other side. You can even take off your socks and keep those dry. You want to assess how deep is the river. You don’t want to forward any river with water higher than your knees. You might think to yourself, oh, I’m a great swimmer. Still it’s safer. Keep the water to your knees or below because the current can easily carry you away if you’re crossing waist deep or chest deep in the water. Remember that water levels are usually lower in the morning, especially before the sun is a chance to melt more snow if you’re in that kind of an environment. 07:53                                     Okay. 07:53                                     And also if you get up and hike earlier in the day, you’re going to be less likely to miss afternoon thunderstorms that can add more water to the rivers. 08:01                                     Yeah, 08:02                                     deeper water that’s less than the height of your knees is often safer than shallower, but faster moving water 08:09                                     [inaudible] 08:09                                     and you can often take your time more in the deeper water and counter-intuitively should you fall, you’re actually more buoyant in deeper water. Consider also the physics of moving water. Water is heavy and it weighs 62.4 pounds per cubic foot. Water pressure increases with the square of its velocity. Oh yeah, that’s really mathy. Mathy. What does that mean to us in everyday terms? That means that the shallow water is moving twice as fast as the deeper water. It’s exerting four times the force. If it’s 10 times faster than it’s a hundred times as forceful. Think about that, so that’s why the shallower, faster moving mortar can be more treacherous for rivers change and so sometimes the trail may not meet the river at the optimal place to cross. When you come to a river, you want to scout out the river up and down for the best place to cross avoid turns in the river as the water moves were quickly there. 09:12                                     See if there’s something risky shortly downstream that would indicate that you shouldn’t be crossing there at all. Say the waterfall we talked about that you could tumble over should you slip. Ideally you want to look for a vantage point above the river so you can get a bird’s eye view to make your assessment. Also, pay attention to places that you can get out of the river view. If you do happen to fall, you always want to try to have a backup plan. Be ahead of time because you’re not going to have time to think and all the chaos should you fall in. 09:39                                     Okay. 09:40                                     If there’s a bend in the river below, be sure to scout both sides of the river because if you fall, the water may carry you to the bank side that you didn’t plan on going to the water will most likely leave you on the outside of the bend. Remember, you can look to to see what is the river depositing at that bend because there’s a chance that you could end up there. You want to make sure you can get out wherever it is that you want to cross. Are there steep banks that you’re, they’re gonna be difficult to get out. You want to be very patient and choosing where to cross and even deciding whether you should indeed cross your life might very well depend on that decision and if you’re scouting the sides of the river off the trail for safer place to cross, you also need to be aware that this includes its own hazards of falling and injury. When you leave the trail, make a good mental note of the trail so you can find your way back. You don’t want to get lost and for that also refer you to episode number six of what to do if you get lost in the woods. 10:42                                     Don’t forget you’ve got a map. Look at your map. Are there any forks ahead that might have less water? Would they be a better place to cross? 10:49                                     Right? 10:49                                     You want to check to see how fast the water is moving. You can test the river current by tossing a stick and seeing how long it takes to move down the stream. The current can be really deceptive if you toss that stick in and that stick moves faster than your walking pace. The currents too strong, late spring and early summer or when current levels from snow melt are particularly strong. Remember the icing on the sides of the cake. What you see with your little test is the river at its slowest. Also, pay attention to what happens to the stick. If you’re stick, get snagged or pulled under, that’s liable to be what happens to you should you fall. You can tell the shallower water by indications, a little rippling water over boulders. Eddies are formed above larger boulders and they can slow down the water. Making for a good place to cross, however, do not cross downstream of large boulders as you can get caught in some dangerous swirling currents. Likewise, don’t cross just downstream of the waterfall as they’re all Scobey some currents that can pull you under. You want to choose an exit point on the other side of the stream. Avoid places that you’re going to have to scramble up. I remember you might be pretty tired, and because of that, you might slip and then fall back down to the river. 12:12                                     You also don’t want to try to climb up some undercut banks. 12:15                                     [inaudible] 12:16                                     so you’re gonna look for an exit point on the straight part of the river and not on the bend. And just while we’re talking about it too, as you’re crossing the river, you want to keep your eye on your exit point. So you’ve done all your scouting, you’ve done your prep work, you’ve done your little tests of the water. Now when you’re crossing the river, you’ve chosen a location, you’re going to choose a location where the river straight, not at the bend. So you’ve got a straight part of the river. Now what? Now? You want to look at the width of the river because actually the wider part of the river at the current is usually slower moving than the sh the skinnier part to the river. So you want to look for the wider section, even though that might look a little bit more intimidating, it’s often safer. 12:59                                     Yeah, 12:59                                     so you want to think straight, wide, shallow, so the straight are part of the river is going to be less movement. The wider part is less current and shallow below the knees, so straight, wide and shallow. Only cross it when it’s above your knees when there’s little to no current unless you plan on swimming across the river, which I’ll talk about that a little bit later. 13:23                                     [inaudible] 13:24                                     and the streets stretches to also offer the benefit. Usually have a consistent current 13:30                                     [inaudible] 13:31                                     be on the lookout for something. When the river breaks into channels, they call them braided channels. These channels often have debris, rock sandbars that you can rest on and on. The widest part often dissipate some of the force of the water I Breda channel could be a great place to cross. 13:47                                     Okay. 13:48                                     Also be on the lookout for sandbars where you might see some animal tracks. That’s usually a great indicator that that’s a good place to cross the animals know best, so you’ve chosen your location, you already scout out everything. Now make sure you unbuckle your pack, both the hip and the sternum straps. Because if you slip, you do not want your pack to drag you under or get caught and then help to drown you. However, now that it’s loose, it’s gonna make your pack a little bit more unstable as the weight shifts about while you’re crossing the river. You also want to loosen your shoulder straps a little bit to make it a little bit easier to remove. If you do fall, it’s better to lose your pack than your life. One option is you can tie your rope to your pack, so if you do fall in, do you have a better chance of recovering it, but you still need to be prepared to let go of the rope. If the current or snagged pack starts pulling you under, found your place, you’ve unbuckled your pack. Number three when you enter the water you want to up stream and then you shuffle your feet rather than stepping so you’re sliding your feet across the river bed rather than stepping in a slightly downstream manner at a roughly 45 degree angle shuffling rather than lifting your feet, it’s going to help prevent you from slipping on an algae covered rock or submerged tree trunk. This will also scoot away any underwater critters that you might accidentally step on and that could spook you causing you to fall. 15:22                                     Number four, you want to use a trekking pole. Poles are great not just for hiking, especially when going downhill, but they can turn your body into a more stable tripod when crossing a river. If you don’t want to carry poles, find a sturdy stick to use on crossing. My polls have saved me countless falls in and out of the water. If you use a hiking pole, then you will always have one foot firmly planted plus the pole firmly planted. As you shuffle the other foot you face up stream and plant the pole in the stream. The current’s going to lodge it into something. And if you find that that small tip keeps getting caught, a sturdy stick might be a better option for you. Remember to only move one foot at a time and don’t cross your legs so you can get tangled and tip over. 16:12                                     You’re shuffling was south, but placement sideways, facing upstream, moving about a 45 degree angle downstream, face up, move down, slight angle. Remember the tripod, keep the tripod and you want to have always two sod points of contact on the river floor before moving the third so you’ve got two feet and a stick do of those should always be firmly planted before you move the third [inaudible]. And if the current is not too strong, you might like using both poles or too sturdy sticks. But if it’s really strong, it’s probably gonna be all you can do to handle just keeping the one pole under control. And if that little trekking pole basket causes you some drag, you might want to take it off. 16:57                                     Number five. If you’re lucky enough to see the bottom of the river, you can look a few steps ahead for smoother bottoms. If the water is silty toss a rock, does it make that kerplunk sound? The water might be deeper than you think. And if your rock swims a little bit before it sinks, you might be about to enter some Kurt that’s much stronger than you think. Remember, the slower moving sides of our cake icing. As you get in the middle, you might find a much stronger current six if there’s more than one of you. Again, with your packs loosened, hug each other’s waist and form a line and cross the river together in a sideways shuffle. To do so, you want to put the strongest person in, position him or her towards the furthest upstream and secure their position with a sturdy pole when the leaders firmly established person number, hugs, leaders’ waist, and then person number three, et Cetera, et cetera. As you work on down the chain, this later is creating an eddy like the big boulder we talked about and it makes it easier for the others behind to follow. So the group working together shuffles across the stream. 18:08                                     When your group has the opportunity, you should practice this on shallower, safer stream so you get it down pat. When it comes to a little bit deeper, stronger stream. Another group crossing technique uses the people crossing, forming themselves into a tripod. The group forms a triangle facing each other with the strongest person entering the water first. They each hold their neighbors waste the weaker people away from the point of the triangle. So you want to put them in the middle of the sides and again, you’re usually going to be more stable holding each other’s waists rather than their shoulders. The strongest person takes the lead and as the front point of the tripod breaking the current, then he or she plants a pole or stick firmly in the ground and on the leader’s count, everyone takes a step together and once firmly establish the leader calls out another step and another step together, the group diminishes a lot of the current. If you’re in a group and people are crossing Solo, consider having somebody downstream ready to toss a rope if they fall in. But if the current is so swift that you actually expect people to fall in, perhaps you shouldn’t be crossing it in the first place. 19:21                                     Okay. 19:22                                     Sometimes a stronger, more experienced hiker can cross the river, secure a rope on the crossing bank, come back over and secure another road there so that the group can hold onto the rope for additional support. Strong person, of course, would then go back and collect the rope afterwards. If the rope is strong enough. You can also use the rope as kind of like a zip line to transfer your packs. 19:44                                     Okay. 19:45                                     But caution, caution, caution, do not tie people together with a rope. If somebody falls in, it could drag down others to a tragic end. If you use a rope, people are just to be holding onto it, not tied to it. 19:59                                     Right. 19:59                                     And don’t wrap your hands even around it. I actually had a girlfriend I grew up with was holding onto the waterski rope and she wrapped it around her hands and when she fell, it literally pulled off all of her fingers. So just grab onto it. Don’t wrap it around your hands. 20:16                                     Okay. 20:17                                     If you’re hiking solo and you’re a little dicey, you look twitchy about a river. Consider waiting until other hikers come along so that you can forge the river together. And that adds a higher safety level for all of you. If you’re crossing and now the water’s getting deeper than your knees, think about returning to the bank and trying either a better spot or waiting for the water levels to lower. 20:41                                     Yeah. 20:41                                     Some strong swimmers may consider swimming across a river while not recommended. If you choose to do so, you must choose a deep spot with minimal current, the little current that’s there, it’s still gonna feel pretty strong on the Appalachian trail. Folks used to have two Ford across the Kennebec River, but there was a tragedy there once when a woman did unfortunately drown. So now there’s a ferry system that runs, I believe it’s twice a day as I think a guy in a canoe comes in, carries you across the river and safety. But before that, for the most part, people had to swim across. The only time I ever had to swim in a river like that was when my sister Tara and I were in Costa Rica rafting, the Macquarie River. There was this big rock that we jumped off of and so our instructions were jump off the rock and then swim as fast as we could over to the left bank. 21:32                                     And I was shocked at how fast that river was moving here. We’d been rafting it all morning and you don’t realize the power of that river. And in fact it was funny. Fortunately Terry’s is fast swimmer because she forgot when she got out to swim to left bank and they fortunately threw a rope and all that cause apparently some rapids were coming up ahead, but everything was fine. But again, the main thing I want to emphasize is it didn’t look like it was moving that fast. But once I was in I was like, whoa. It was carrying us really fast. And when I got to that bank I was exhausted. Remember I had a life jacket on to help me. You can learn about that whole adventure is episode number 15 of the actor travel adventures podcast. And I’ll put links in the show notes and on the webpage and the webpage for this’ll be adventure travel show, podcast.com/river so if you decide you’re going to swim across the river, you must also be a very strong swimmer and have thoroughly scouted out the hazards ahead. 22:25                                     You’re going to need to remove your pack, consider inflating your mattress pad and using that as a raft for your backpack, your important stuff you already should have in dry sacks. And then I also line my whole interior of my pack with a heavy duty compactor trash bag that I’d twist up. And then I fold it over onto itself and then twist, tie that together. That keeps everything nice and dry, although probably not if it gets submerged. So if you’ve got your important gear, like your sleeping bag and all that, and dry bags and a compact bag, you gotta be in pretty good shape, particularly if you use your mattress pad raft. So if you’re swimming, you want to choose where you want to land on the other side and do a little bit of mental math to figure out the current and the distance. 23:06                                     So you cross aiming upstream. This is called ferring across a river. So let’s say your math calculations are really off. What’s the downside for you if you land away further downstream? Remember, look for the hazards. So regardless of whether you’re swimming or forging a river, you’ve gotta be mindful of Hyperthermia. If the water’s cold, you could be putting yourself at risk. You want to know the signs and treatments, which I’ll leave that for a separate episode. Oh, I’ve learned how to shuffle across a river and swim across a river. But one of my all time favorite ways to get across a stream. Very rarely a river, usually just a stream is taken advantage of the natural features that are available to me. This includes things like boulders and fallen trees when I think it’s safe to do so. I try to keep my feet dry. 23:55                                     Using the natural features is great. And like I said, I use it an awful lot, but the most important thing is is to think before you go, what is the downside? If you shimmy across that tree or walk across that tree or jump boulder to boulder to cross that stream, if you fall in just a quick second slip of the footwork, what could happen? Are there rocks you could hit your head on? Are there sticks that could impale you? How high above the water are you when you fall? Is there one of those nasty strainers downstream that you could get caught in? And let’s talk for a minute about tree bridges. Sometimes you’ll see a nice fallen tree going across that stream. You’re like sweet. If it’s got tree bark, that’s going to give you better traction than a Barclays tree, which could be slippery if you decide to walk across a tree. It’s recommended that you walk sideways and keep your eyes moving and not focused on a fixed point and that’ll help you prevent vertigo. And actually if I come to a tree bridge, I prefer to just scoot in my butt and just shimmy across. 24:58                                     If you see a log jam where a bunch of trees are all crammed together and think that that would be a great way to cross. Think again. All right. When multiple trees are locked together from flooding, let’s say flooding knocked down a whole bunch of dead trees or whatever, it looks stable but you don’t know for sure and if you jump on it and you put your weight in a tree that turns out it can move, you can slip between them and get stuck. Plus let’s say that the trees are appended so you see these large root balls, they could be another problem as you grab onto one to get a little bit of balancing all that, that can dislodge a whole bunch of dirt and rocks above you that can fall on top of you. So just avoid those just to be in the safe side. 25:36                                     They could be really treacherous. Boulder hopping, this is usually the way that I cross most streams. I go in and this is when you see the rocks on top of the stream and you just kind of tap dance the crown across the river. So this is what I probably use the most. But keep in mind, I have really good balance and I have really good decision making when it comes to foot placement. When I’m hiking, I just intuitively seem to know where to put my feet. Some people don’t. So when you’re going to boulder hop, pay attention, what’s the downside? If you misstep or lose your balance? Is it safer to boulder hop or just to slog through the river? Often slogging through is the safer option. And if they’re dissimilar heights, you’re in a try to jump up to a boulder rather than down because the momentum actually might be a little bit harder to control. 26:27                                     Think about it. Gravity might give you a little bit more quote unquote help than you need. So jumping up, you actually have a little bit more stability. And also when I’m doing the boulder hopping, I’m doing so on dry boulders that don’t have any allergy. I’d try to avoid stepping on submerged boulders because even if they look algae free, they’re usually still a little bit slippery since they’d been under water. And you’re already getting your feet wet. So you might as well just shuffle across the riverbed anyway. You think you’ve done everything right, everything’s gone great, and you step on this one boulder, but it moves and you fall. So what do you do in this or in any of the other things we’ve talked about today? What do you do if you fall in the river? Number one, you gotta be prepared to unload your pack. Yes, I know that hurts painfully. You’ve already unbuckled and loosened it, right? You do not want your pack to drag you under. 27:18                                     I’m sure you listened to episode number four about how to pack your backpack. And I know we’ve already covered how to keep everything all nice and waterproof. So I know you’ve done that, but let’s say you have to drop your pack. You can often find it at the next bend in the river. If not, you could be screwed. So what does that mean for you? Where are you if you lost your pack? Is that a life threatening situation? Consider that before you cross a river that you’re not sure about, but remember, always better your pack than your life. 27:52                                     Okay? 27:55                                     All right. Let’s say the worst happens, number two, there’s rapids and you’re swept downstream. So what do you do? You position yourself that your feet are taking the brunt of the initial impacts. Your feet are facing downstream. So you’ve got to protect your head. So you want to float on your back with your feet pointing downstream and then try to aim and use your arms and all that to aim for the shore or calm shallow area for you to catch your breath and to regroup and hopefully you’ll be able to recover your pack. And here’s something else I want you to think about. Let’s say you’re doing a hike and you’re doing an out and back, meaning you have to cross the same river back on your return mate, no to where you crossed and how long it took you to do so. So you allow plenty of time for your return hike. Don’t forget that the river levels and the currents, the speed can change base on the snow mount and rainfall. So what may have been a nice calm river you crossed today, a few days from now after a heavy rainfall or a lot of snow melt could be dangerously impassable upon your return. What’s your plan B in case you can’t save the crossing for a while? What if you have to stay there for a few days? Do you know where the nearest bridges and how far it is to get there? 29:08                                     The most important thing you need to pack whenever you head outdoors is your brain. So bubble carry your head with you and don’t hesitate to call it a hike and turn back or delay. The crossing perhaps will be calmer in the morning. My rule of thumb is if I’m not sure I should cross, that’s a pretty darn good indicator that I shouldn’t cross. It should be crystal clear to you that say for you to cross, if not either weighted out or turned back. I put together a checklist of what we talked about today that will be available in the monthly newsletter that goes out to anybody that subscribes and you can always find how to do that at adventure travel show, podcast.com or you can always email me@kittatactivetroubledventures.com some parting thoughts. I love the outdoors as much as you do, but we want to do it safely. 30:07                                     Have you ever fallen crossing a river? I’ve been lucky actually. I’d never have a fallen lots of times on the trail, but never in a river. So if you have, I’d like to hear what happened to you and, and do you think that what we’ve covered today was helpful or would have been helpful for you? Like I said, this is the most dangerous thing that we face when we’re out hiking in the wild. So if you have hiking buddies, please make sure that they get a copy of this podcast so that they know what to do. Even if they say, oh, I know everything wanted to do. There’s probably one or two tips here that they didn’t know that might be helpful for them in the future. Next up on the show is the big debate, hiking boots versus hiking shoes. What’s the difference? When do you wear what and how to pick the right shoe for you? And next up on the act of troubled ventures podcast, I have a very special episode covering a little visited range in the Rockies called the mummy range. And after looking at the photos and talking to our guests, I definitely put that on my list, so I’m looking forward to sharing that with you. 31:15                                     I appreciate you listening. Until next time, this is kit parks and venture on.  

Ten Features of a Perfect Campsite BEFORE you even head out, check with rangers or the website to determine the guidelines and regulations for the area you will be camping.  It's no fun to get a ticket from a ranger or be forced to move because you aren't following the rules.  Also check on camp fire restrictions as well. Here are the ten features to look for when choosing a campsite.  Full details below the checklist. Water availability and source : it's no fun to lug water The terrain : find a level spot so you don't feel like you are rolling down a hill A hazard free zone : look around for potential hazards like dead trees/branches or from flash floods, etc. A site suitable for the expected weather : don't pitch your tent in a low spot in case of rain, or on the ridge in a thunderstorm The proper size for your party :  make sure you have enough room for all the tents, kitchen/dining area and play area Bonus amenities like stone or stump chairs and tables :  are there any 'free' boulder or tree stump chairs to relax on? A perfect mix of sun and shade : open tent to morning sun, afternoon shade and a sunny clotheseline area Which minimizes negative impact on the land and the wildlife : use existing sites or try not to disturb the vegetation Is private : away from other campers and the trail Is pest free : use the wind to your advantage   Links Mentioned in this Podcast: Portable Water Treatment ATSP Episode 003 What to Do if You Get Lost in the Woods ATSP Episode 006 Outdoor Etiquette ATSP Episode 010 Active Travel Adventures podcast   Allow Enough Time to Find a Campsite:  I start looking for a campsite about 4pm.  If you are super tired and the terrain and water situation is not optimal, you may want to start looking earlier.  Also if you are tired, you may want to hide you pack (and make note of where you put it)so you can scout ahead without carrying the weight.  This way you’ll be more likely to seek out a good site instead of settling for the first adequate one.   So what does a good campsite look like?    Check before you head out:   What are the regulationsfor the area you plan to camp?  The national parks, national forests, BLM lands and state parks all have different rules and restrictions.  Obviously honor the rules as they are trying to keep things nice for all of us. If you need a reservation, make one.  If you need a permit, get one.  You certainly don’t want to get a ticket from a ranger or be forced to move because your didn’t pay attention to the guideline.  While you’re at it, find out the campfire rules, too. 1. Water  A great campsite has a solid source of quality water nearby so you don’t have to haul it too far.  You can learn about water treatment option on Episode 003. You’re going to need water to drink, cook, and clean up.  My favorite water is a spring, then a stream. My least favorite is a lake. Lakes can collect bad things like E-coli and it's hard for the bad things to get out.  Rivers also collect all the run off, and it was from the river at Linville Gorge that I got giardia, a most unpleasant experience. With a suitable portable water treatment system, you can drink from any of these source.  There are few places I go that I don’t treat my water before drinking it.  Remember that you want to camp at least 200’ from a water source, well off the trail and not in the path of the local wildlife’s worn path to the water’s edge.      2. Consider the terrain  Unless you are using a hammock, you want to find a level site so you don’t feel like you are rolling down the hill when you lay down.  Even a slight pitch is unnerving. Also make sure you don’t set you tent on an area where water can collect should it rain.   3. Look up and around for hazards  Dead branches and trees can fall on you.  If you see piles of rock and debris, you might be in a flash flood hazard area. Site selection is criticalif you are in a canyon and bad weather comes in quickly.  You may not have time to escape a flash flood. This is a good thing to check with rangers beforehand.  If you are camping on a beach, make sure you are well above the high tide mark, which you can see by the debris the waves leave behind.  In winter, don’t camp in avalanche prone areas, or any time of year in rock slide areas. Don’t camp by the lone tree that welcomes a lightening strike.  4. Consider the weather  If the forecast and your visuals indicate a pleasant evening, camp higher up in the mountains.  You’ll have a better view, will see the sun earlier, will have more wind which means less bugs, and if it’s chilly out, the cold air collects in the valleys, so you’ll often be warmer.  If there is a chance of thunderstorms, head down from the ridge and avoid the lone tree.  5. Campsite Size Needed  If you are camping with others, is the site large enough not only for your group, but also for a gathering area, a kitchen AND an activity area?   What do you want to do while you are out there? If you want to throw a frisbee, you’ll need to find a place with some room.  6. Look for Natural Amenities  Can you use any natural features such as boulders or fallen trees as camp furniture?  I don’t pack a camp chair, so I often like something to sit on or lean against. I carry a small piece of ripstop fabricto not only keep my butt dry, but it also acts as a barrier to chiggers and other unpleasant bugs you might sit on. 7. Best Tent Positioning  When possible, face your camp door towards the morning sun.  You can use your compass to get a reading. This will help you wake earlier and it is so much more pleasant.  I prefer a shady spot that gets the morning sun, but has a sunny area nearly. And If you find a sunny place nearby, you can tie a rope to make a clothesline (I carry strong but lightweight parachute cord).  Tie your rope across two trees to make a clothesline to help dry out some of your gear.  With a little luck and a breeze, you can dry out anything that may have gotten wet from an afternoon shower or if you need to wash your 'delicates'.  8. Leave No Trace and Minimizing Negative Impact  If you see a camp area that has been previously used, use it rather than hurting other vegetation.  Obviously you don’t want to puncture your tent floor with rocks and sticks, so gently clear your little patch of heaven and then try to put it back the way you found it in the morning.  In the winter, camp on top of the snow.  Whenever possible, pitch your tent on the bare ground to minimize harm to vegetation. If you see animal footprints, remember to give them the 'rite of way' so you don't disturb their behavior. Animals stick to habits just as we do.  And if they have a favorite path to the water’s edge, you want to make sure you’re not camping on it.  Reminder:  200' from water. 9. Privacy  If there are other campers nearby, respect each other’s privacy.  If possible you want to camp where you can’t see or hear each other, and preferably where people on the trail can’t see you either.  Don’t assume other campers want company. Many people head to the woods for solitude, so please respect that and don’t take it personally.  Check out the Wilderness Etiqueete Episode 10.  10. Wind and Pest Control  Take advantage of the wind as an organic pest control. A breeze will help keep away mosquitos and other pests.  As will avoiding setting up your tent in damp areas or still water. However, if it’s really windy, you’ll want to look for a natural windbreak like large stable boulders or a block of trees.   If you are lucky enough to check the box on all ten of these suggestions, you have found the perfect campsite!   https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Instagram  parks.kit   Twitter @Kit_Parks   Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures    

  Understanding and Buying Holiday Travel Insurance   Learn the nuances of buying travel insurance so you're actually covered for unforeseen accidents, delays, sickness, theft and more.  Many claims are denied because people don't understand their policy. Don't make that mistake and learn what to buy.   Why Buy Travel Insurance? You buy holiday insurance to help mitigate some of the lossesyou face when your holiday doesn’t go as planned, especially through no fault of your own.  Without insurance, you can be out a significant amount of cash for bookings you are no longer able to use. Americans now spend close to $3 billion a year on travel insurance, and that’s up almost 20%!  I buy holiday travel insurance for every trip I take. To me, it’s a small price to pay for piece of mind in case something goes wrong, plus I have 24 hour assistancewhen something does go wrong.  It's super important to UNDERSTAND what travel insurance is and the types of things it can cover.  It doesn't cover 'stupid' or negligence like being under the influence.  And it's only to try to make you 'whole' not compensate you for your loss.  So in an approved claim, you in effect, get back the money it cost you had the unfortunate event not taken place.  In this podcast episode, I get to better understand travel insurance in my interview with Phil Sylvester of World Nomads.   Links Mentioned:  Active Travel Adventures podcast   World Nomads Insurance quote  Costa Rica podcast episode Tanzania safari podcast(Mickey faceplant!)   The Best Travel insurance can cover things: Before your trip: You or an immediate family member gets sick or dies Your tour or cruise gets cancelled (in fact this just happened to me after I already bought my expensive plane tickets and some non-refundable Airbnb’s before and after my tour) Your flight gets delayed   During Your trip: Your bags get lost, damaged or stolen You miss your connections due to other delays Something you booked gets cancelled You get sick or injured (or worse) Your destination experiences a natural disaster or terrorist attack   HOW TO FILE A TRAVEL INSURANCE CLAIM Before you go: Put in the cloud a copy of your travel insurance policy.  Make sure you know the 24 hour Assistance Contact number and your policy number. READ YOUR POLICYduring the grace periodto make sure that it will cover the risks you don't want to assume.  Please don't ignore this! Something happened...What Do I Do? You will need to call the Assistance Hotline and have this information available: Your current contact phone number Your policy number Be able to describe the problem Be able to tell them your location   World Nomads is my 'Go To' insurance company when I travel for an adventure because they "GET" adventure!  Virtually every adventure I cover on our companion Active Travel Adventures podcast is automatically included in their standard policy - unlike many travel insurance policies!  If you use my links you'll be helping to support the show - at NO additional cost to you -Thanks!  Kit   Not all companies cover all problems that can happen before and after your trip.   Before purchasing any travel insurance policy, you should understand how the policy will help you if these events occur:   MEDICAL NEEDS   What if I get sick or hurt BEFORE my trip?  If you or an immediate family member gets seriously sick or dies and you need to cancel or delay your trip, your travel insurance can kick in.  Note that if these same loved ones get sick or dies while you’re traveling, you are also usually covered to get back home where you are needed. For you, you would need a doctor’s certification that you are unfit to travel or you, your travel buddy or immediate family member be hospitalized , or God forbid, dies. What about dental?  If you have sudden dental emergencies, like an infection or an accident that breaks your jaw, these are the kinds of things most policies will cover.  But they will deny getting that crown you wanted. It covers sudden changes to what were healthy teeth for things that can’t wait until you get home.   What if I get sick or hurt ON my trip?  Travel insurance is NOT health insurance, so most policies do not cover pre-existing conditions.  If you have a pre-existing condition, then be doubly sure to read your policy. Some policies will allow for pre-existing conditions if purchased far enough in advance.  But if you get hit by a tuk tuk in Bangkok or get Dengue Fever in Brazil, this is when you’ll be glad to have travel medical coverage. This kind of coverage takes care of in and out patient medical care, prescriptions, ambulances, etc.  It won’t however cover you for stupidity like getting drunk and passing out on the street to then get hit by said tuk tuk. It will get you healthy enough to travel so that you can either finish your trip or get back home to where your regular medical insurance will kick in. Also super important:  make sure that the activities that you are planning to do are covered under your policy. Many travel insurance policies do not cover adventures.  That is one reason I recommend my affiliate partner World Nomads.  They understand adventure and virtually everything I cover on the Active Travel Adventures podcast is automatically included with their policies.   If you get sick or hurt and are in such bad shape that you need to get home NOW, then you will be glad you have:   Emergency Medical Repatriation  If you get so sick or injured that you cannot continue with your trip, you may require emergency medical evacuation, which can cost over $300,000 -- Ouch!  But if you’re in a country that doesn’t have shall we say, the most advanced medical care and hospital system, you want to buy travel insurance from a company that will get you out of there and into the hands of quality doctors and facilities pronto.  You want a company whose medical team can decide whether to help rearrange your trip to accommodate fixing your problem or figure out the best way to get you out of there, whether by ground ambulance, air ambulance, sea level aircraft, helicopter evacuation, flight changes and upgrades with medical staff if need be.  But what happens in a truly worst case scenario: What if I die on my trip?   Look over your policy to see if it will cover bringing your body home.  Some will pay for the local burial or cremation. Some will pay for the cremains to come home, some with some without a loved one as escort.  Choose your policy based on what you want covered here. Note also that suicide or deaths caused by alcohol or drug abuse will not be covered.  Most policies will also exclude pre-existing conditions. If one of your immediate family members dies while you’re on your trip, this is usually covered.    PERSONAL BELONGINGS   What about my stuff?  How does travel insurance cover my belongings?    Baggage:    Delays:  Most policies cover getting some necessary items if your bags are delayed for a certain period of time.  This will include things like necessary toiletries, perhaps a jacket. Lost:  The carrier has lost your bags.  Most policies cover a specific amount of loss.  If you have fancy electronics, jewelry or cameras, you may need a special rider.  Also check with your homeowner’s insurance policy as you may have coverage there already.  Likewise, some credit cards are now offering some travel insurance that can cover several of the items we are talking about today.  Review your credit cards to see which offers the most comprehensive plan and then consider booking your trip with that card. Damaged by carrier.  If the airline, for example, busts your bag roughly throwing it onto the carousel, this is usually covered. Stolen.  Assuming you weren’t careless and forgot to get your bag off the bus, or you didn’t go to the restroom and leave your bag in the lounge, if your bags get stolen and you’ve taken reasonable precautions, stolen bags are usually covered.  You must file a police report to file a claim. And before you buy a policy, make sure that the country you are living in AND the country you are traveling to are covered under your policy. I see that some do not cover Brazil, for example.   OTHER PERSONAL BELONGINGS: Note also that most prescription drugsare covered if stolen. Stolen Passportsare often NOT covered, so check with your policy.  I think it’s a good idea to take a photo of your passport and visa, and then email it to yourself and a loved one.  I also keep a photocopy in my purse and suitcase. I’ve never had need to use them, but I’m sure if I do, I’ll be grateful for this foresite.  If someone uses my passport fraudulently, my travel insurance company can also help me here. Credit Cards.  If your credit card gets stolen, it’s not usually covered by your travel insurance policy, but your company’s hotline may be of some assistance.  They MAY cover getting the new card to you. On the copy of your passport, write the last four digits of your credit card number and the toll free international or national number to reach customer service if you need their help.  This is what you take a picture of and email to yourself. If your credit card gets stolen and you then don’t have another to continue your trip, this is not considered a trip interruption because you can devise a backup plan. There are limits for the total claim and for an individual item. Say $1000 total and maximum $500 for an item.  So if only my $750 camera got stolen, I could only claim the $500. If you’ve got fancy stuff, consider getting a rider unless you are willing to absorb the excess loss.   Motor Vehicle Accidents Your travel insurance policy probably WON'T cover the damage to your vehicle so MAKE SURE if you rent or drive a vehicle that either your normal auto insurance policy covers you WHERE you will be driving. Otherwise, you will need to purchase the very expensive optional insurance that the lender will offer.  CHECK BEFORE YOU LEAVE SO YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO! So the bottom line is, your travel insurance should cover the medical costs of the accident, but not the physical damage to the car.  CAVEAT:  You MUST be driving with a valid license for that country (which may mean an international license) AND not be under the influence or otherwise breaking any laws.   COUNTRY ISSUES What if there’s a natural disaster?   In April 2015, there was a massive earthquake in Nepal, killing over 9000 people.  Most travel insurance policies will kick in to get you home after a disaster, but you need to examine your policy before you buy it, or during the free cancellation grace period afterwards.   If you get hurt in the disaster, then the medical issues we already discussed kick in. If the airports or other transportation systems are shut down, or your accommodations get destroyed or your tour company cancels, this is where you’ll be glad that you have travel insurance coverage.  A natural disaster is likely to kick in several components of your travel insurance policy from trip interruptions, delays and cancellations, to possibly some of the medical coverages. A good travel insurance company will have a 24 Hour Hotline to assist you in making arrangements to help solve your crisis. Note that if a major typhoon is forecasted to hit the Phillipines next week, and you decide to book a trip there during this time, that clause would be excluded because the natural disaster was a known entity.  However, if you booked your trip three months earlier, they could not forecast that particular typhoon. Your policy will usually cover you if you follow the advice of authorities. So that could mean cancel the trip if they are advising evacuation, but no insurance kick in if they do not.  Also, if the authorities advise evacuating , but you decide to watch the storm and then get hurt, you’re going to get denied.  In a similar vein, let’s talk about terrorism.   Terrorism There are limits to the terrorism clauses, but if the even is unforeseen, as most terrorist attacks are, then whatever medical or interruption clauses that might be triggered provided you did not book your trip AFTER the terrorist event.   You can’t utilize this clause if you simply get nervous about traveling some place and want to back out of the trip.  Authorities would have to recommend that people no longer advise visiting a place for the trip cancellation or interruption to kick in.  I had assumed, wrongfully, that when I purchased my travel insurance for my upcoming Middle East trip, that if the terrorist threat increased, that my insurance would kick in.  NOT! There would have to be a serious incident in the places that I am going for me to utilize this clause.   Bottom line is you need to really READ YOUR POLICY during the grace period.   Bottom line is you need to really READ YOUR POLICY during the grace period.   Lots of claims get deniedbecause people are not following the policy guidelines or terms.  For example, again on my Mid East trip, my trip expanded from my original tour. My policy requires me to be covered from door to door from my house.  So the first policy I paid for is null and void because I am now traveling both before and after. So I learned my lesson. Completely plan my trip BEFORE i buy a policy.     Certain companies have guidelines as to WHEN a policy must be purchasedrelative to the date of the first deposit.  If you have an expensive trip in mind, it doesn’t hurt to poke around the insurance website ahead of time to see what the purchasing time windows are.   Then one you’ve planned your trip, add up the NON-REFUNDABLE PORTIONS.  Some things like many hotel rooms you can cancel, right? So don’t include those.  Tally up how much you would be out of pocket if you have to cancel your trip. That’s how much to get the quote for.   Travel Insurance companies calculate rates based on the following: Total cost of the non-refundable parts of the trip Your country of home residence Your destination or destinations.  If you are going several places, generally they want you to list the furthest, but double check so that you are following the rules.  It is worth the call to find out. On my upcoming trip, even though I will be spending the most time in the US, the furthest country is Jordan, so I was instructed to input Jordan.  I noticed my rate quote was the same, however, I didn’t want them to have any loophole to squiggle out of if I have a claim. Your age.  The older you are the higher the cost. Your pre-existing conditions, especially if you want to cover them.  If you have pre-existing conditions, it pays to shop around. Some will allow coverage if bought far enough in advance. How comprehensive you want your policy to be.  Are you adding pre-existing conditions, a jewelry or electronics rider?  If you are going on an adventure, is your activity covered or do you need a special rider?   What about other insurances? Credit Cards.  As mentioned, some offer a skeleton coverage of certain items listed above.  It doesn’t hurt to use a credit card that offers some travel insurance, but I don’t think it’s a good substitute for a comprehensive policy. Travel Agent or Airline coverage:  When you check out, often you’ll be asked to get travel insurance to cover your purchase.  This will only cover the ticket you just purchased. If I am traveling domestically and think that it will be pricey if I have to go home unexpectedly because of Mom, I might buy it, but I usually still prefer the comprehensive policy. Also keep in mind that some agents will sell you a cruise cancellation policy.  This technically is NOT an insurance policy. I still say, stick with a comprehensive policy.   How to Choose Which Travel Insurance and Get a Travel Insurance Quote I recommend World Nomadsbecause they understand adventure and they have a real person review all claims, instead of a machine.  Their policy basically, as it should, requires that you use common sense and don’t be stupid or do stupid things.  And if you’re head is on straight, they are there to help you out when something goes wrong. Your goal is not to make a profit off of your claim, just to not be out of pocket.  I find them affordable and are usually my go to. They do have policy limits that mean I can’t always use them (like my really long and expensive Mid-East trip), but they are my general ‘go to’ insurance company.  If you use my link, you can get a quick travel insurance quote and at no additional cost to you, you’ll be helping to support the show.  If I can’t use them, then I use: InsureMyTrip.com  I like this website because I can easily compare travel insurance policies and then pick the right policy for a particular trip and my risk tolerance for that trip.  They also have a third person advocate, so if you get denied a claim you feel should have been honored, they can step in and take a look and possibly help. Whichever method you use, I find it easiest to buy my travel insurance online.     CAUTIONS: Cheap travel insurance may not be good travel insurance.  READ THE POLICY. You get a grace period for several days up to two weeks.  During that time, you can review the policy to see if it is the right fit for you.  If you see that you missed something, you can cancel and get your money back so you can find a better policy. You are most likely going to have to upfront a lot of the expensesand then get reimbursed.  I would recommend bringing a credit card with a high limit in case of an emergency.  Otherwise come up with a back up plan (ie, a family friend or relative that may be able to front you some cash). Complete Transcript Note: This is a machine trasncript bound to be full of boo boo's. I provide it (unedited) so that those taht prefer to read rather than listen to the show have the means to do so.  I apologize for any errors:)   Kit: (00:00) Okay. Kit: (00:02) Six months before my husband passed away. Kit: (00:06) Okay. Kit: (00:06) We were sitting in our office and our desperate right next to each other and bill was in remission and somebody had called me to ask me do something. This is in November, asked me if I wanted to do something the following June. And I said, no, I couldn't really plan cause I didn't know what bill's health had been like because his cancer had come back twice already. And so I was just kind of keeping things in limbo. When I hung up, he said, listen kid, I'm feeling good right now. Why don't you go take a trip? All I'm feeling good. And after a couple of years of medical and the stress of bills, cancer and just all the drama and the rentals weren't doing that well. And so anyway, I said, that sounds really sweet. I said, I have always wanted to go to Africa. I knew that would be some place but with never want to go. Kit: (00:47) He said, well go if you can find somebody to go with you. So I emailed my girlfriend Mickey. I said, Hey Mickey, do you want to go to Africa and go to safari within 15 minutes? She emails back. Yeah, let's go. So here we are November and we decided we're going to go on a safari in January. So we ended up driving to Washington d C to get our visa because we didn't trust mailing our passport there and getting it back in time in case there's a snafu because at the time was so short, had another story for another day about the Snafu that happened on the way to the DC. But anyway, so we finally, we go off on our adventure. We head to Turkey for a few days to kind of recoup a little bit of the jet lag before we head into Tanzania. We land at like two o'clock in the morning as all the flights seem to, or picked up by a tour company who takes us to this nice little eco lodge that we're supposed to sleep for a couple of hours, get up, have breakfast and go out in the safari. Kit: (01:38) Everything's great. We've got this cute little room. It's got the mosquito netting. It's kind of cute. Nothing fancy, but it's nice. We sleep maybe two or three hours, get cleaned up. We're walking down this dirt path on the way to where the restaurant area was in the lodge and single file path and all of a sudden I hear Mickey Stumble and I turn around and she does a face plant and just smooshes her face in. So we are in this backwoods area and she's just bleeding and her nose is smooshed and we can't even use the water from the faucet cause it's not sterile enough. So we had to use bottled water, try to clean it and the people at the lodge couldn't have been any nicer, but we just, they just didn't have the, the medical facilities there. Finally we get the doctor and the doctor actually recommended that she be flown to Kenya for treatment and she's like, no, no, no. Kit: (02:32) I just want the stitches and the doctor does it. Everything's fine, no infection. But he doesn't let her go out into the Bush on the safari because of the risk of infection. She'd be too far away from medical care. So she ends up having to spend the entire five day safari time at that lodge, which in hindsight turned out to be a good thing for her because a, she ends up making friends and family members out of everybody she meets and she still keeps up with all those folks this many years later. But B, turns out also that she gets car sick and 70 something years old needs to use the restroom a lot. Not a good combination when you're in a jeep and a safari bumbling around on, on rocky rutted roads. So anyway, end up being a blessing and thank God that she bought the travel insurance even though it took a while to get all the paperwork and all that. Eventually she was reimbursed for the expenses. So today we're going to be talking about travel insurance and I've got an expert on travel insurance and travel safety with us from world nomads and we're going to learn all the ins and outs of travel insurance, what to look out for, what you should be looking for. And without further ado, let's get started. Kit: (03:43) Welcome to the adventure travel show podcast. I'm your host kid parks. Today we're chatting with Phil Sir Vester from world nomads, the company I now buy my travel insurance from. And in full disclosure is also an affiliate of active travel adventures and the adventure travel show. So Phil is a travel safety expert for world nomads out of Australia and he's here today to answer all of our questions about travel insurance. Bill, welcome to the program. Phil: (04:08) Thanks very much for having me. Kit: (04:10) I know people are gonna think travel insurance sounds kind of dry, so let's get people off with a good start and let's tell them some fun stories to show them. This is going to be a fun show. Tell me your favorite happy ending travel insurance story. Phil: (04:23) Oh, we have so many. Oh, okay. Here's one. There was a Florida guy and he was doing base jumping in Switzerland, would you believe? And ended up hanging on a rock ledge quite a way off the ground and was quite badly injured. He got rescued and we got him back home to Florida and because of his head injury it had to be a low altitude flight. You can't just put them on a regular commercial plane, but we got him home and he made a full recovery. So, you know, that was very expensive for us, but it was a great outcome for him. The downside of it is we don't have a base jumping anymore. Kit: (05:01) And one reason I, I should note, the reason I switched to world nomads from my previous carrier is because I cover adventure travel and I didn't realize a lot of the things I was doing wasn't covered under regular policies. Phil: (05:13) Yeah, yeah. Look, we've got, ah, you know, I think it's about of, uh, over a hundred, nearly 200 adventure activities that we will cover. And generally they're ones that are not covered by other people as well. But you know, there are certain things that we don't cover. You know, like if you wingsuit flying or as we'd like to call it plummeting, uh, you know, it's not going to be covered. Kit: (05:37) Oh, I've seen video of that. Yeah. Now that's pretty cool. It was crazy. We don't cover anything that the bar is set, so I've got to be able to do it. And I'm 58 years old and I'm only in reasonable shape. I'm not like a super athlete, so for the most part we just do hiking, biking, paddling, nothing too crazy or too adrenaline kind of stuff. Yeah, so I bet you you also have some pretty interesting, weird stories Phil: (05:58) of just like freaky things. Can you tell us one of those and then we'll get into some of the nitty gritty? Okay. We've had three broken penises. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I'll explain this. All right. Just stick with me. Okay. Where are your tone joins the bottom of your mouth? There's that little bit of skin there that sort of, you know, little, yeah, that's a frenulum. All right. Men have got to, yes, the other ones down there, if you tear that it plays a lot and there is an operation that you need to reattach it. It's called [inaudible] to me. I see. And we've had that come up with three times. People that have been away on holiday and they've been having some, you know, some wee time with their partner and something's happened and it's got torn. Kit: (06:46) That's a different kind of adventure than what we cover on this show. However. Phil: (06:50) Yeah. Okay. Uh, okay. Yeah, let's hear it. Few years ago there was a, a customer traveling in India and noticed he had an insect bite and it was getting, you know, kind of itchy and whatever. And then he noticed that it was actually moving underneath there and something that laid its eggs under his skin. So he went to the doctor and the doctor said, go buy a piece of mate and strap it to your lake because the lava inside the maggots inside will be attracted to the role made on the outside, not the inside. And they did, they all lift his leg and went into the meat and he threw it away. We paid for the doctor's appointment, but he had to buy the piece of meat himself. Kit: (07:29) Well that one seems like you came out pretty good on that one. Phil: (07:32) [inaudible] Kit: (07:34) so let's, let's, let's talk a little bit about why should people buy travel insurance? Just to like a, a brief thing. Cause I'm gonna ask you some more detailed questions, but just kind of give us a synopsis of what should be going through our heads when we say, oh, we've got this great trip. Why should we cough up a little extra money? Phil: (07:48) Because there are always unexpected things that happen that mean that you're not able to go on the trip or continue the trip or I have to end it early and these are things that people are just not planning for. I mean who would know a volcano would go off in Iceland and ground or flights in Europe who would know that you know you're going to get hit by a BMO when you're crossing the road in Indonesia, who would know if a close family member is going to be suddenly very ill, which means you have to stay home. These things you can't plan for it. You don't know they are unforeseen. And this is what travel insurance is there for, to make sure that you don't end up out of pocket and don't forget. And travel insurance, it's insurance, it's not compensation. So it's going to make sure that you end up financially where you were if that thing had not happened, but it's not going to compensate you for a bad experience. Kit: (08:42) Right, right. And actually the reason that you just brought up about the a loved one or something, that's the main reason that I started buying travel insurance is I have elderly parents now, it's just an elderly mother. But at 93 and a half years old I that I might get the call one day. I travel so much that I need to go home instantly and they stick it to you at the airfares. And some of them, the tours I do are extraordinarily expensive and I just don't want to be out that much cash. Phil: (09:07) Yep. Yep. Well every sensible willed out. Kit: (09:10) So let's, let's talk about, that's one of the key things that most policies covered and that's trip cancellation. So I'm going to ask you about a couple of different things that I know of about trip cancellation. You can tell me a little bit about what are the kinds of things we need to be looking at. One of which is like natural disasters. You talked about the Iceland and weather things like who decides how bad is a disaster and how does all that work? Phil: (09:32) Well it varies a little bit. I mean it's pretty obvious with the volcano cause when it goes bang, that's it. You know an earthquake, same thing but a a natural disaster. If you, if you check out like the State Department's travel section, they will put up warnings about when things, you know, when they advise you not to travel to a destination. That's a big key factor. The British Foreign Office also do those warnings as does the Australian Foreign Office defect. So we kind of take that is you know the Bible basic. If they say to their citizens, don't go here, then you are not, you can't travel against the adviser. View of the old covenant h case is judged on its merits as well. We have underwriting teams everywhere and they will look at events and they'll go, well this has happened. How has that kind of impact our travelers? And so they will, you know, we're, we're constantly monitoring things that happen around the world. Phil: (10:27) But basically if it works this way, if the, if there's been, you know, some sort of incident in the place that you're going, if the planes are still flying there, if the hotel still open and you know, the roads are still open, you're going. But if any of those things are not happening, you know, like you can't get to it. The roads blocked. The hotel has been forced to close. The tour has had to be canceled because of this incident or you know, there's no, no flights going in and out of the destination, then that's the taste. Kit: (11:00) All right, let's, let's take that a step further with terrorism, which is unfortunately something we have to deal with these days at the State Department, let's say, uh, I'm actually this fall going to several places that are a level two, which it's advise a little bit more caution than the level one. If the State Department moves at two a level three does that kick in the insurance because now it's more advisedly not to go what is level three? So I think it's four levels. So level three is saying, Eh, not a good idea. Like Nicaragua right now is a level three and that they're almost in civil war. Phil: (11:33) Yeah, no you're good for level three but you know, don't go near any of the protests in the streets of Managua. But you know, if there's no advice, no level four advice, then you, yeah, you can use the travel insurance has not yet been cut off. Kit: (11:48) And then now on the the death or a serious illness of a loved one, what are the parameters? Who defines loved one? Phil: (11:55) Look, it is actually defined in the policy wording in the PDS. So yet somebody asked us, we did get a question, somebody said my dog died. Does that count as a close family member? We're really sorry and we understand how you feel about your dog. But no. Yeah, it's generally siblings, parents in laws, but it probably wouldn't extend to cousins. But again, every case is judged on its merits. I mean, if you're sharing your life and you're living in the same house as a cousin and it's a cousin that dies, then we'll, we'll say to that, Kit: (12:31) okay, that actually sounds pretty fair at fair than I would've thought. Um, how about, and then sometimes there's coverage for layoffs if you get laid off and now all of a sudden cash could be a problem. Is that typical or is that something you need to look for? Phil: (12:43) Okay. It does happen. The amend, the one of the other providers as we've got [inaudible] policies for US citizens is if you get called up for military service or you get called up for jury duty or if the business that you work for goes into liquidation, you know, it goes bankrupt and you're required to be there to help clean up and things like that. So there's a lot of reasons why you can cancel around those sorts of areas. Kit: (13:08) Yeah. It sounds like you're actually using some judgment calls, which is nice cause it sounds like it's some of the things that are above and beyond what, what you read in the actual policy. Cause I've looked at the website kind of extensively. So you've talked about the weather and then also if you miss a flight or a connection through no fault of your own. How's all that work? Phil: (13:27) Okay. This is complicated. If you, which lots of us do because you know we'd like to book our own trips and our own flights. If you book a flight from destination to destination B, stop over it with the intention of going to destination C and you book airline number one for a and B, but you book airline number two for B and c and you miss the connection. That's your fault. That's your problem. You didn't allow enough time to be able to make the connection. Whereas if you had booked from a to B to c with airline one the whole way through, it's their responsibility to get you to see. So if you're held up or delayed or your missy connection in destination B, they will sort it out for you and they will put you on the next flight. But in the first scenario where you've got two different airlines as far as airline two's concerned, when you just don't show up, they don't know where you've come from, they don't know you've got a connecting flight, you just haven't showed up. And airline one has, when they eventually get you to destination B, they fulfilled their commitment to you. So it's your fault for not allowing enough time to make the connection in between. So don't leave it a couple of hours if it's really important that do it. Stop over, have a day in the, in destination B. Yeah, Kit: (14:43) that, that's actually happened to me and d was not covered. So I get that one. Now Phil: (14:48) we will book our own cheap flights and we like to make it up ourselves. Right. I get that. But just have to be aware that you leave enough time. Right. Right. Now what about the lost or delayed luggage? How's all that work? You obviously have got to report it as soon as you can at the airport. Always keep those baggage tickets. They stick on the back of your boarding pass varies from, cause I'll take it, you've got not just Americans listening and maybe it's some British people this, no, no actually we are. We're international and we have over a hundred countries. We've got like 13 different policies that cover people from around the world and the wording unfortunately slightly different in the mall. So generally though, if your luggage is delayed for more than 12 hours, in some cases it's only six hours, but you know it's like say 12 hours, check the policy wording, you can then go and spend and get some essentials to make it up. Phil: (15:41) That might mean that you need to go and get some new underwear. You need some toothpaste, you need, you know, some pajamas a you, it may be in a cold climate and you need a new jacket or something like that. You're entitled to go and get those up to a certain amount, which I think is around about $250 a day. And you can claim that back now if it's gone for more than 24 hours, I think there's 24 24 hours. If it's that and then it's considered completely lost, then it's basically as if it's been stolen and we'll pay out the maximum benefit that we've got for your luggage. Now let's switch gears to something that's, that can be really, really expensive and that's medical. So let's, let's talk a little bit about if somebody's got a preexisting condition. For example, a lot of our listeners are over, let's say over a certain age, over 60 a lot of people that we interview here, and they may have diabetes or they may have some heart conditions. Phil: (16:34) How does all that work? Again, with like I said, 13 different policies and different wordings and what have you said, check the policy in the world nomads policy for your country of residence. But there are some of those conditions which we do cover. But if it's not on the list of things we do cover, then we don't. And if you are traveling and something happens that is related to that condition, it won't be covered. So we are not necessarily the right policy for you cause not all policies are everything to everyone. So the reason you should read the policy wording is to make sure that it's right for your circumstances. So you, if you have a preexisting medical condition, you may need to go and choose a different provider who does on their own providers who have screening processes and they will say, yeah we'll cover you for that for an extra premium or no we're not going to cover you for that but we'll cover you for this whatever. We're not one of those because that just adds a layer of complication and slows things down. We are a different type of travel insurance and we might not be right for you. Okay. Now would that be something, do you know of going to like ensure my trip back calm would be a good resource to do that? Sure, Yep. I know of the brand in Australia that has a screening process, but I'm not aware of, I don't know. Kit: (17:49) I used them before I switched to you, but I don't remember them ever asking me about any preexisting conditions. So I guess the bottom line is to read your policy in check while you still have the grace period. That's going to be the only time you can get your money back. If it turns out you inadvertently bought a policy that's not suitable for you. Uh, how about if you have an accident or sudden illness or you eat something? Oh boy, you got sick. What do you do then and what kinds of things are covered there? Phil: (18:15) You have medical bills, so if you're overseas and new VOR, ill look, if it's a minor complaint, find an near clinic and get the medicines that you need and what have you and keep the bill that you get from the clinic and then submit that and you'll be reimbursed if it's a major incident and you're admitted to a hospital. Sadly, when you're admitted to the emergency department, as soon as they've stabilized you to make sure you're not going to die and they've stemmed the bleeding, one of the next people you will see will be somebody from the front office with a clipboard and they're going to be asking you how you're going to pay for this treatment. I'm serious. The person with the clipboard turns up and that's when you go, here's my world nomads policy number, give them a call and they will call our emergency assistance teams and we will swing into action there. Now our in house medical teams will liaise with the people treating you to make sure you're getting the best possible treatment. We will assess the hospital that you're in and decide if there's actually a better one nearby and if it's possible medically advised to move you to get the better quality care and we will pay the bills up front so you can concentrate on getting well rather than having to find your credit card in your wallet. Kit: (19:33) Right now when my girlfriend Mickey, we were in Tanzania and she had a really bad fall and they wanted to fly her to Kenya. She chose not to. Would that have been something when the locals are even saying you shouldn't get that treated here, you better go into the next country, you get better treatment. Is she a doctor? She's not. The doctors were saying exactly she adult number cause she's stubborn. The start ended well but if everybody's saying Eh, you know cause a lot of places we go to our go to may be a little dicey when it comes to the medical scene there. So Phil: (20:07) yeah call, call our emergency assistance team and no it shouldn't be called in emergency. It's like customer assistance team and traveler assistance team. Really like give them a call and say look this has happened. I've had a fall. The locals here and saying don't get this treated here. Go to Kenya. What do you advise we will, you know, you'll probably end up speaking to our in house nurse or our in house doctor who will make the best assessment they can over the phone. And then if it's decided that, yeah, okay, we can't tell from here, whatever, and you do need better treatments so it will get arranged and we'll get you somewhere where you're going to get quality care. And I got to say, if the locals are saying don't do it, I would whoa, Kit: (20:49) you hear that Mickey? Uh, it just, it's, it's so hard cause you know, you, you're so excited to go on your trip and we are walking to breakfast the morning of our safari and she just does this face plant and just smushed her face in and she's just, and she's also, you know, be fuddled and you know, just, it just wasn't what you're expecting that day and you know, surprises happen. And she was just being shook up and stubborn. She's like, no, I'll just go ahead and stitch me up here. So whatever. Like I said, it ended up working out fine, but it was a little traumatic morning. She's pretty tough then, right? Yeah, she's very tough. She's very tough lady, so she's pretty cool. Yeah. All right. So now let's say what, is there any kind of coverage amounts we should ask for or is this something that you have a choice on or how does all that work and any recommendations there? Okay. Phil: (21:41) In Australia, the United Kingdom, we're kind of used to travel insurance being the way it is through world nomad. But Americans are kind of used to a different type of insurance won't see you. This is the value, this is the cost of my trip, this is a value of my trip. And then you get charged and certain percentage of that of the cost as your premium at doesn't work that way. With world nomads, what determines the cost of your premium here is the maximum benefits payable. So you know there was a limit of say $1,500 on lost luggage. So that's the maximum benefit that you can claim and given. And then you go across all the other benefits against which you can claim that determines what the premium will be. So if you are going on a $500,000 trip to tens and year, your insurance premium determined by the, the better maximum benefit of Alpha will be saved. I don't know what it is. I'm making this up. Maybe you know a $150 if you're going on a $50,000 trip to Tanzania, it will still be $150 because of the maximum defined benefit that's payable. So you won't pay any more if you're going on a luxury trip as if you going backpacking somewhere. It's the same because it's defined by the maximum benefit possible. Kit: (22:59) Okay, so so it's so it looks like we need to look at the policy to see what the coverage limits are and if we see that there's a huge gap between what the coverage limits are versus our trip. And most of our trips aren't anywhere near those kinds of things. I've looked at your policies, everything that I've covered so far for the most part outside of maybe Kelly would fall within those ranges. But if you're doing some extraordinary luxury trip, you need to check that closely before you buy. Did I get that right? Phil: (23:26) January. The thing that happens most often is people have got really super duper expensive camera equipment and the maximum benefit for the leading camera is not going to replace it. You know, you might have a $5,000 camera and it's not going to be covered by our benefit limit, but in that case, people who've got big cameras that generally are a part of some sort of professional association or Semiprofessional Association and you know, or photography club or something like that. And those clubs generally will have insurance policies for their members to cover their equipment. So you make sure that your camera equipment is covered in some other way. The world nomads policy has got that equipment benefit level and if that's not sufficient, then you know, you should look at getting additional insurance to cover a specific item Kit: (24:14) and US citizens at Leisha check their homeowners policy because sometimes in particularly we have a rider, you may have coverage there. Phil: (24:20) Oh totally. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of home policies will cover it. Things like laptops and cameras when you take them out of that out of the house. Yeah. And they often have higher benefit limits than we do at world nomads. So you know, so you walk into breakfast in Tanzania and you fall and split your face open, but also smash your camera. We will do the medical stuff, but don't claim the camera from a, the camera damage without his claim. The camera damage with your other insurance Kit: (24:47) and when you buy something expensive, make a copy of the receipt because a lot of times your credit card company will offer some insurance because they figured we're going to forget all about it. So that's another little hidden insurance benefit that you may have and not even realize you have now also gets a little bit confusing with the insurance with the Schengen travel insurance in Europe. Can you explain a little bit about that? That whole thing was kind of new to me anyway. Phil: (25:10) You know, the USTA that you need to get into America, which is you have to apply for clearance for these at free entry. It's kind of like a visa to say you don't need a visa. Right. That's what's going to happen in Europe as well. You're gonna need to apply so that they can screen you beforehand to say that you're eligible for visa free entry. That's all that is. Kit: (25:32) I thought there's a requirement for travel insurance with that now too. Uh, Phil: (25:36) probably a requirement for medical insurance. So your travel insurance will cover that. Kit: (25:40) Oh, okay. That's probably what they're going after. Okay. All right. Yeah. So yeah, cause I understood that you had to show some kind of proof of insurance. Phil: (25:47) You've already got travel insurance, which includes medical, you see if you've only taken out trip insurance, so you have any cupboard, you know the flight that doesn't include medical, which is why travel insurance is as an all encompassing trip insurance, medical insurance, evacuation insurance as a combined product. That's why that's better to have because as you say, and you know you're going to have travel insurance anyway. Kit: (26:12) Right, right. And then also I read too that sometimes some travel agencies and cruise lines and all that, they'll push travel protection, which is quite different from travel insurance. Can you talk about that a little bit? Phil: (26:25) Yeah, that, that's like the trip detection. So what they are doing there is they are selling a product and you can buy it at a kiosk at airports in the United States you are offering insurance against the cost of that travel ticket so it doesn't cover anything else. It doesn't cover your medical costs. It probably doesn't cover loss of your baggage and what have you. But if the flight is delayed or the flight is canceled, then you can make a claim for insurance compensation thing that to cover your costs that you've lost. So it only covers one thing and they are making around about, I would suggest, I don't know for sure, but I reckon they're making about 50% commission on that insurance that they sell you. Kit: (27:07) Yeah, that's about what I read too. So, yeah, so it's not necessarily a good value. And, and people are getting confused between protection and insurance or what they have in their mind, what they're buying. Phil: (27:18) Correct. And they're using the word protection for that reason. Kit: (27:22) Is there any tips you can give us about how to not only just evaluate insurance policy, but also the company behind it? Because there's, you know, everybody's heard of the nightmares, oh, I bought insurance and they didn't pay anything and Blah, blah, blah. How we evaluate looking at a company Phil: (27:40) such a major, it's really great for that. Go onto the company's website, find their Facebook site, find that, see what people are saying, go on other travel forums, see what people are saying it as well. Because you know, read it is a great place to find information like that as well. It is such a heavily regulated industry worldwide that there are no dodgy operators. You're not going to buy insurance and it's not properly bad. It just doesn't happen. So you're pretty safe with going who maybe you choose with the product that they are offering, which is right for your circumstances. It's very, very, you're not, you're just not going to fond an insurance company that goes bankrupt. But their processes for handling claims about whether they are good at that or not, we'll be very, very clear on social media. But don't forget as well, lots of people get very upset on social media of like, oh, I paid all this money and they won't pay my claim. Phil: (28:34) There's not an entitlement to be paid for something. You actually have to play by the rules. And in lots of cases, people you know, have done things which are not covered. We had a case recently where a customer was upset, they got altitude sickness was, they were in Nepal and they were at 4,900 meters, but they had purchased a policy that only covers up to 4,600 meters and now it's only 300 meters and can, yeah, but you know, that's what the policy wording said. You know, that's the one you chose, but then you've done something different. You've just, so maybe you originally plan not to go above that altitude, but then suddenly you found a reason to, he could've called us up an upground new policy to get covered, but you didn't. So now you're saying, oh, it's not fair that you've rejected my claim. We ended up paying by the way, because you know, yeah, it is only 300 meters or so, but a lot of the complaints that you get, Oh God, they won't pay my claim. It's, yeah, it's because you don't qualify to get it paid. Kit: (29:37) Okay, and then that brings up the other thing too is a lot of times are mad because they might've done something negligent or they might have been under the influence or can you talk a little bit about that and maybe give some stories about that? Phil: (29:49) Yeah, sure. Here's an example for you. For Australian customers who go to Bali a lot, it's very great destination. We go there a lot. It's very close by. It's like our Cancun place. 60% of the claims that are made related to motorcycle injuries out of Bali, we reject because they are not licensed to ride. They're not wearing a helmet or that under the influence or what we call the unhappy Trifecta. All three drunk, no license, no helmet. And they crash and fall off like a client, sorry, not happening. So we reject 60% of those, uh, those, those requests. Kit: (30:28) I like beer. So if I have one beer and something happens to me, I'm not covered. Or do you have to have a certain limit or, or, or is there a, a formula that you use? Phil: (30:38) Yeah, every case is judged on its merit. Somebody will assess your claim and they will make investigations and they will get the toxicology report from the hospital where you're admitted and we'll find out how much alcohol was in your system. And then they will make a person, a person will make a decision on whether your state of intoxication may have contributed to what happened to you. So there's no hard and fast rule because common sense prevails. And I know people will find this hard to believe. But it is true if we get somebody and you know, these are people that we care about, these are our customers, these are our, you know, these are nomads. We want them to travel. We will look and go, well under this part of the policy, we wouldn't pay that claim. But, uh, there's a contradictory part of the policy over here that says we are able to, to pay it. Phil: (31:29) You know what, let's use that one and pay the claim. And as long as you can justify that, I mean then we can, we can look after you and we're gonna we don't, we don't want to strand people in hospitals with huge bills. If there's some way that we can find that is going to pay it, then we will do that. So some a person is making that assessment on your claim. So, you know, we try and put as much humanity into that as we possibly can. But if you're over 0.05 or 0.08 or whatever the legal blood alcohol limit it is in the place where you have the accident, then it's very likely that it's going to be, you know, a contributing factor. But look, if you've had one drink and your sensibly walking back to your accommodation rather than riding a motor scooter and a vehicle Koreans off the road and hits you, you could be as drunk as a skunk, but as long as you know, because that was somebody else's fault, you did not contribute to what happened to you. Phil: (32:24) So it's interesting as well by the way, because we were looking at this now that they've legalized cannabis in Canada and it's like how do we treat that? And there is such a, you know, people do go to destinations because cannabis legal or at least dispensed in places in the United States and the same thing applies. But the, in Canada, the government has said if you are intoxicated, if you are under the influence and you have a traffic accident, then you will be judged. So the Canadian government advisers don't smoke and drive at all. And we would be kind of following that advice as well. So that's the rural set up there. But I mean it's really easy to determine what your blood alcohol level is, but not quite sure how it is to determine how intoxicated you are by cannabis. So go easy. Kit: (33:13) And then also if somebody is, we do a lot of hiking on this program. If so many clients at the top of the mountain, they're just too tired to come down. You don't send a helicopter for them, do you? Nope. Nope. That's their problem. Right? Have people tried? Phil: (33:28) Sure. We've got a massive problem with that in Nepal at the moment because there are lots of helicopters operating there and a lot of very tired and grumpy and saw people at the tops of Trex who can't face another four days trekking back. And it is a problem. And, and if they are claiming to have symptoms of altitude, mountain sickness, altitude sickness, then first priority is to look after their welfare. So, you know, they will get medically evacuated and yeah, and it's, it's a problem if you are at the top of mountain and you haven't planned well on up, what will happen is night will fall, a blizzard will come, the local Alpine rescue team will be throwing in an action and they will come and get you off the mountain and put you in a hospital. Then that's where your travel insurance takes over and we start paying your medical bills and we are canceled and miss trips and all that sort of stuff. So No, there is no helicopter with the world nomads, you know, our little symbol Sanchez, the little sort of in command, there's no helicopter with cheers plays and on it that will come and get you. Sorry, Kit: (34:42) I definitely get that. You've got so many people that are hidden to Nepal, they're not doing their training, they have no altitude prep at all. And then they just wanna be able to show an Instagram that they did this or they did that. So now I totally get that you shouldn't have to pay for somebody arriving woefully unprepared. Phil: (34:57) Why would you put yourself in that position in the first place? I mean, it's like airbags in cars, right? So people go, I've got their bags so they stopped wearing their seatbelt. You know? Why would you put yourself in the position where you haven't planned appropriately, where you may find yourself too tired to get back down where you've gone? Why would you do that to yourself? Kit: (35:14) Well, they may not have the experience to know. Yeah, maybe. I think with Instagram and, Oh, I've got another question coming up about that. You know, they, they see people doing all these things and they want to do it and they may, you know, I heard of somebody thought she was going to the Appalachian trail, pushing a shopping cart, you know, I was like, has she done any homework whatsoever before she started out? Phil: (35:35) Well, here is another about travel insurance. All right. We don't cover the stupidity. Seriously. You're doing a really dumb thing. We don't cover that. Kit: (35:43) Got It. Got It. All right. What about people that are not traveling so specific with specific dates? And this is a very personal question because I got a really complicated project this fall that I'm going to multiple destinations over the course of several months with time in between that I haven't really, I haven't booked the flight yet. I book the tours, booked the conferences, so combined it's too much. So do I do an individual policy or do I do chunks of policies or how, how do I do something like that? And what do you do with people that are just traveling nomadically and don't really know where they're going to be? Is there annual policy or chunk policies or what do we do? Phil: (36:22) Well, you can get a policy that covers you for the world worldwide. So let me get this straight. So you're going away and then you're coming back at an indeterminate time. At the end of all of this, you're not coming back home in between. Correct. By a policy right now because you've already outlaid money on tools and what have you. Get a policy now that covers the dates that you're going to go. And if you don't think you're ever going to come back, then get worldwide for up to six months. Now. Federal regulations when you can't do more than six months at a time, but you can renew your will nomez policy while you're on the road. So you just get online and extend it. And if you've got worldwide then you can go anywhere that you like. But if you know you're going to a specific region, you can get a policy for Asia, you can get a policy for South America out of world nomads. So it doesn't really matter where you go within that region. Kit: (37:12) How about some credit cards bragged that they offer travel insurance? Can you talk about that? Phil: (37:17) Yeah, sure. And they do. And the policies are generally underwritten by the same people that are underwriting, you know, specific providers. But you again have to read the policy wording to see what they cover. They often have a higher deductible than a it standalone travel insurance provider. And there may be criteria around how it's activated. Do you have to tell them beforehand? Do you have to have paid all of your trip portion of your trip or pay for on the credit card. So make sure you know how it's activated. Then check who the emergency assistance company is that they are using. Cause it's not, you know, somebody in your bank who's going to help you and you're in trouble. They've, they've got service provider, find out who they are and you know you can make an assessment of those as well. And the other thing is what is the emergency assistance number that comes with your credit card insurance? Phil: (38:12) You have to dig around pretty hard to find that sort of information. And the other thing is you don't know exactly how much you pay for that. They go, it's complimentary, it's included in your credit card. But they don't tell you how much that travel insurance policy is actually costing you. You've got a willed nomads, you know you're paying, you know, $109 for that policy, but you get this complimentary, not free, but complimentary travel insurance and they're stinging you for it. It's all the charges that you're paying for that. So it's actually not very good value either. And just on a personal level, if you're, you know, if you've just face planted in Tanzania, are you really going to call your bank to look after you? Why wouldn't you know like let's get a, you know, let's get a specialized travel insurance provider to run it for you. I don't know, like it's there and if it suits you again, you know, like I said, we'll know him as policies. I'm not going to be perfect for everybody. Maybe the one that comes with your credit card is perfect for you, then go for it. Kit: (39:16) What about to a, sometimes our car insurance here in the states covers, at least in the United States, I've never, I can't remember overseas if I rent a car, I'm covered on that. Does that translate in travel insurance when you're traveling outside of the area or can you talk about that a lot? Phil: (39:35) Well, you'll so unsure about it. I'm pretty sure everybody else's does. My American car insurance cover me for that excess damage waiver. I think they call it, Kit: (39:45) does my car coverage? If it says it does, does that cover a scooter in Vietnam for example? I have no clue. Phil and I went back and forth on this auto insurance and what's covered and what's not covered, and I edit out all that junk because the bottom line is, is you need to check with your auto policy here at home first and see what is covered there. And if it doesn't cover you where you're going, you're going to need to buy whatever the insurance is at the place that you're going with whatever the vehicle is, whether it's a scooter or a car, whatever. And the key thing is, is you've got to make sure that you have a valid driver's license for the location that you're going to be in. And that might require having an international driver's license. You have to wear the hell about or follow whatever the rules of the roads are in that country. Kit: (40:30) And you can't be breaking any rules, which means you can't be under the influence and you gotta be following the law. So your travel insurance basically will cover the medical problems if you have an accident and assuming that you are following the rules but it will not cover the auto vehicle damages. That's what your auto policy needs to cover. And if you don't have an auto policy, you need to buy one from the company you're renting from. So that's the bottom line. And some policies may cover your deductible on auto accident but not the actual accident. So I can not emphasize more clearly you need to read the policy, you get a grace period after you buy the policy, you download the policy, you actually read it and see is this a suitable policy for you and are you willing to take the risks that are not covered. Your policy will spell out in black and white what is and what is not covered. And you cannot expect them to make exceptions. That's just the way it is. Okay, so let's switch gears and let's talk about stolen baggage. Phil: (41:37) The biggest problem we have, and it's a little unfair, is what's what's considered to be unaccompanied baggage. If you are not paying proper attention to your belongings and they get stolen, the loss may not be covered. And sometimes that gets down to, oh I just put it on the table now turned around for one second. And it's like, yeah, well that was unattended baggage as opposed to, you know, I, I left it over there and walked away to another shop and came back, which is quite obvious. So sometimes it can sound really unfair about the way it is treated. So please look after your belongings. Don't put your cell phone down on a table and turn around just for a second. Cause in some places that we traveled to, they are or can be solid on the black market for like, you know, a month with wages for somebody local. So look after your belongings, don't leave them unattended. And don't be surprised if you do and your claim is questioned. Kit: (42:40) Let's, so let's talk about theft. You're walking through the markets and somebody snatches your purse. Phil: (42:46) So you had it on under your arm. They still grabbed or they cut, they cut the strap and ran off with that. Yep. Is that covered? Yeah, it happens all the time. Hatton. Just recently, actually a friend of mine works for a big international airline and they have had two or three of the cabin stuff, have had the handbags snatched by motorcycle thieves. You know, they ride by and just pull them off. There's an Australia woman who died because of that, about three or four years ago. So yeah, look, if you're injured in that, yes. If the bag has got valuables in it and it will often have things like your passport in it, yeah. Then the cost of replacing those items will be covered. That is absolutely. They left lots of baggage. Yes. It's covered. Plus you may have been injured as well, so we'd cover your medical bills Kit: (43:34) and so what kind of proof do we have to present to you? It's something like that. I mean, I don't take a picture of what's in my purse. How do we have to show you that we've actually had a loss? Phil: (43:42) Well, it's pretty obvious with a passport. I don't have it. I can't leave the country. I need to go and get a new one. If it's something like a camera or something like that, and you should do this with all of your positions that you take away. Nobody keeps the receipts when they bought stuff. You know, maybe you've had your camera for five years and you don't know where that receipts gone and what have you. But to prevent fraud, we're going to need some sort of proof that you owned it in the first place and some sort of proof that I actually was stolen from you. So the proof that you had it in the first place, if you've got the receipt, great, nobody does. But if you tape, you're the one person that does,

Is Solo Travel for YOU???  Afraid to travel solo – especially solo adventure travel? Today's guests share their insights as to the Pro's and Con's of solo travel and share what they consider the benefits and challenges, plus their tips to make adventure travel solo safe and fun.   Is Solo Travel for YOU???  Afraid to travel solo – especially solo adventure travel? Today's guests share their insights as to the Pro's and Con's of solo travel and share what they consider the benefits and challenges, plus their tips to make adventure travel solo safe and fun.   Today's Guest Interviews on Solo Adventure Travel  This episode is a rebroadcast of an episode on our companion Active Travel Adventures podcast.  Jackie Nourse of Traveling Jackie and the Budget Minded Traveler, Jason Waitkinsand Monica Arangurenshare their thoughts on taking a solo holiday and what it's like to travel by yourself.  See some of their solo adventures photos down below! Seven Reasons to Solo Travel There are lots of reasons you might travel solo: 1. Maybe you can't find anyoneto travel where you want to go, when you want to go.  If you want to go, but aren't comfortable going completely on your own, consider small group travel.  Be aware of any single supplements and look for companies that pair you with someone if you don't want to pay extra to travel alone. My affiliate, Active Adventures(different company with a similar name) does NOT make you pay the dreaded Single Supplement. 2. You need some time to yourself to just THINK! If you need to figure some things out in your life, consider taking a long distance hike or cycling trip.  You'll have all day to yourself, but will meet people along the way for when you could use a little company.  Check out my West Highland Wayand Cotswold Waylong distance walking holiday adventures for some inspiration. 3.  You want to develop your ‘Grit Bone'or what Jackie calls her “Courage Muscles”. There's nothing like adventure travel, and in particular, solo travel to test your mettleand to expand what you think possible for yourself!  It's a great way to boost your self esteem and self reliance, too!  If you want to feel empowered, try adventure travel, and in particular SOLO Adventure Travel! 4.  It's easier to meet new people when you travel solo.  Locals are more likely to come up to introduce themselves when they see you alone, so you'll have more local interaction. 5.  You'll develop better problem solving skills.  When it's just you, YOUhave to figure out what to do when something goes awry.  You'll learn that you are quite good at finding a solution, no matter how clumsy it is, when you know that you simply HAVE to! 6.  You'll discover what you really like and dislike:  when your schedule is completely your own, you have to make ALL the decisions, from what time to wake up, to what, when and where to eat, to how to spend your time, etc.  If you go someplace and decide you've had enough, you can simply leave without conferring with travel mates, or you can spend all day in a museum that rocks your boat, but would bore your normal partner. 7.  Traveling solo can sometimes be lonely, so even introverts learn how to strike up a conversation(my go to questions is, “So how was your day?”  People love to talk about themselves.  You'll always find other solo travelers at the bar next to a hostel, so head there at cocktail hour to find others that would love to chat.  For that matter, consider even staying in a hostel so you can meet folks in the common areas.  Many offer single rooms so you don't have to sleep dorm style.   Alternately, stay at an Airbnb where the people live there as well and the comments from previous guest indicate that the hosts like to be social with guests.  Consider Couchsurfing.  Also sign up to do a Walking Tour or other group activity to meet others.  See if there are any interesting Meetups going on while you're in town and reach out to the group organizer to attend. Solo Travel Tips and Rules I've been traveling solo for five years now and I've come up with some rules that help keep me safe and reduce stress (in no particular order): 1. When ‘winging it' while traveling, I make sure that I know where I am going to sleep before noon. 2. Whenever possible, I make sure that I arrive at the night's accommodations before dark. 3. When out, I never leave my food or drink unattended. 4. Don't drink too much or do any drugs.  Get back to your room at a reasonable hour. 5. Be careful of overly cautious locals who might be setting you up… does someone on the bus or train rush to try to share a cab with you?  This could be a setup: the cabbie could be a partner in crime.  Check the US State Dept Travel advisoryfor the country you are visiting to see what the current local scams are.  Register your trip with the Smart Traveler Program. 6. Ask your hotel to call you a cab or take highly ratedUber or Lyfts to avoid rogue cabbies.  7.  Ask a local to circle bad areas on a paper map. 8.  Be mindful of your surroundings at all times and have an exit plan.  9.  Hold onto your luggage, going so far as to bike lock it to yourself should you be on a long train or bus where you might sleep. 10.  Make sure someone knows where you are supposed to be and what time you are supposed to arrive AND when to sound an alarm should he or she not hear from you. Some of the adventures Jason has taken that have been covered by ATA include: Patagonia(Argentina & Chile) Ecuador Kilimanjaro Nepal Peru  [Machu Picchu] New Zealand South Island  Part I New Zealand South Island  Part II New Zealand North Island Part III Some of Monica's epic trips that ATA has covered: Dolomites Mont Blanc Galapagos New Zealand South Island  Part I New Zealand South Island  Part II New Zealand North Island Part III One of our guests today, Jackie, is also a travel blogger and podcaster. She did an excellent episode on Solo Travel you can access here.  You can also find her at Traveling Jackie, the Budget Minded Traveler(nowJump). Also be sure to check out my interview with Jackie on the Active Travel Adventures podcast on her adventures in Quebec! Other Links Mentioned in Today's Show: Travel Safety Tips Cotswold Way Mont Blanc Dolomites Galapagos Kilimanjaro Part I Kilimanjaro Part II Annapurna Travel Insurance When you buy travel insurance, please use this link to my affiliate World Nomads.  At no additional cost to you, you'll be helping to support this podcast and website - thanks! Training for your Adventures If you need some coaching and advice on how to prepare for your upcoming adventure, please consider using this link to Fit For Trips.  At no additional cost to you - in fact, use Promo Code ATAKIT10to get a 10% Discount, you'll be helping to keep the lights on - thanks!   Active Travel Adventures Podcast Be sure to check out our companion podcast,  Active Travel Adventures.  On ATA, I encourage you to lead a bigger life through adventure travel.  Each episode features an exciting adventure travel destination like the kinds Monica and Jason talked about today! Solo Adventure Travel We're going solo. That's right. Even if you have a partner, I want you to read this blog post because there are definite advantages and challenges to traveling solo. Even if you think, “There is no way I would ever travel solo,” please read on with an open mind. You might change your mind. I'll be interviewing three solo travelers about the challenges and joys of traveling solo. Since I usually travel solo myself, you'll hear my two cents worth as well. It's a great show. Even if you think, “No way, I could never travel solo.” I beg you please read on and see if you don't change your mind. If you're like me, you don't want to live an ordinary life. You want to live a kick-ass life, and one way to do so is to add adventure travel to your life. I find adventure travel brings out the best in me. It challenges me, it encourages me, it enlightens me, and it inspires me to lead a bigger life. On this program, you'll learn about amazing adventures from around the world plus get the tools and information you need so you could do these adventures with confidence. You'll come home feeling empowered and with amazing memories and stories that you can relive forever. Don't worry, the bar is such that my relatively fit 58-year-old body, particularly with some training, can do these adventures and you can too. This episode is a roundup episode. I've got three guests that I will be interviewing separately about their experiences with solo travel. Our first guest is Jackie Norris, who we met on one of our episodes. She is the host of Traveling Jackieand The Budget-Minded Travelerand has been traveling solo for a long time. She has a ton of insights to share with us. When I interviewed her in Quebec, I asked her casually about solo. We got engrossed in it that I decided to take that section of our interview and added to this solo episode. Our other guests are Monica and Jason. I'll let them introduce themselves. Let's start with my interview with Jackie. Jackie, why do you travel solo? The reason I do solo travel is that I'm solo. I don't let that stop me. For years and years, a lot of people struggle with the idea of getting out on their own. It's a necessity for me. It's what I have to do and so I do it. I never thought I would enjoy it, but I do love it now. You have to get to a point where you're comfortable with it. I've already been traveling for a number of years by the time that I went nomadic like fully solo nomadic a few years ago. Even after that much time of being comfortable traveling, it was weird to be on my own all the time. For the cons, you are by yourself. All of those travel decisions are made only by you. Even where you're going to eat for breakfast in the morning or if you're going to get a beer this afternoon, everything is solely up to you. There's no one that you can confer with. That also happens to be one of the advantages of it. Sometimes it depends on which perspective you have looking on it. Maybe it depends on the day. Sometimes it's amazing and sometimes you wish there was someone there. Loneliness is a real thing. I have written about that before and most solo travelers will face real loneliness. It's not just the point of being solo in a place, it's feeling alone. There's a big difference and that can get to you if it's a while. I traveled for months at a time and it can get draining on me to be alone. At the same time, this is where I am in my life and this is what I'm signing up for. This is also my work and this is what I'm choosing to do. It's part of the territory if you look at it that way. The freedom that solo travel provides is unmatched in this world. There is a feeling that comes with being on your own in some far-flung corner of the planet completely left to yourself and your own thoughts. What you want to do for the day, everything is your will. It is the most freeing feeling ever. It's incredible. You can do whatever you want. There are definitely pros and cons of solo travel. I always encourage people to at least try it out because you get to know yourself very quickly. Even if you think you know yourself, you don't, not until you solo travel. You could see what you're capable of and what your weaknesses are. It's an incredible tool for life to solo travel. Everyone should do it at least once. You had a quote in your the Budget-Minded Traveler episode number 63 that I loved. It was, “Lose yourself until you find yourself.” Could you talk a little bit about that? I thought that was excellent. It gave me chills when you read it. That came from a piece that I wrote on my Travelling Jackie blog. It was when I decided to leave everything behind and go out on my own to travel the world solo for real for the first time. This was many years after having traveled a whole bunch already and studying abroad and all that. This was different because I had a relationship, I had a house and I had all these things. I felt very lost at times, but it's because I had to recreate what my life looked like. That was my moment to decide what my new normal was going to be going forward. I did lose part of myself there in that in a good way though. It's like you have to go see what the world has for you and then figure out what you look like in that new normal. Figure out what the path forward is in this new reality that you've created. That's at least how it applied to me. It depends on what your situation is and why you're choosing to solo travel. Where you are and you’re like so much about experience outwardly when you travel, has to do what's going on inside. That was my experience at the time. I totally went out and lost myself until I started to rebuild and find what that meant to start over. It's obvious that travel in general and solo travel in particular, changed your life. I'm grateful for that because I feel so much surer of who I am. I'm so much stronger now. I have so much more confidence. These are the things that come with being on your own for so long in a place. It's not saying being on your own at home where you're comfortable with everything and you know the name of the store owner down the street, whatever. It's not like that at all. Everything is different. Everything is new. Foreign languages, foreign currency, borders, flights, hotels, everything is a challenge. When you add that element to being completely on your own for a long time, maybe for the first time, it changes everything. Your personal growth is expedited more than anything.       In the last few years since I lost my husband, I've been traveling solo. The one question I get over and over again is about safety and the Boogie Man at night. How do I deal with the safety issues? How do you respond to questions like that you get? Are you not afraid about those things at home? Bad things can happen anywhere. It doesn't matter where you are. In fact, US these days could be a lot less safe than a lot of other places that I travel. I don't dwell on that stuff at all. I have some tricks up in my sleeve to make sure that I'm safe and my belongings are safe. I pay attention. I always say that common sense is your best defense. I stand by that 110%. Don't leave your common sense behind when you walk out your door. The world outside of your comfort zone is not a place to invite fear. It's a place to invite curiosity. Go explore that and find out what it looks like because it's not about fear and safety, it's about adventure, life, growth, people, connection, culture, food, language, activity and beauty. That outweighs the fear. It's not a thing. I've been traveling for many years, knock on wood, but nothing's ever happened to me. I've never been in a situation I couldn't handle. Maybe that's because I carry my common sense close by. Maybe I've gotten lucky. Maybe a lot of things, but I do speak a lot about safety because I know that people ask about it and are concerned. You can't let that stop you from doing anything. Otherwise, you'd be stuck in your own house. What happens if there’s an earthquake and your house fell down? You can't be safe anywhere in this world if you look at it that way. Go do it, get out there and go experience it. You'll find the confidence over the fear the more you go. I want to go back to something you said about being more aware and things can happen to you even at home. It could be safer while you travel because you're more on red alert and you're more aware of your surroundings, whereas at home you’re lackadaisical. You know how they say that most accidents happen within our house like car accidents. You've got your guard down. You may be doing other things. Whereas when you're traveling solo, you're paying attention. It's an interesting metaphor. It's the same thing with hiking on a trail. If I’m on a trail I don't know, I'm acutely aware of everything that's going on around me and my surroundings. If I'm on a trail that I know very well at home, I'm not paying any attention whatsoever. I'm glad you made that point. It’s such a good point. Another question I get asked all the time is, “How do you eat dinner alone?”   It's great. I'm used to that by now. It's funny. A lot of the women I know are uncomfortable eating dinner in a restaurant by themselves. That is something you have to put your big girl pants on and go do it. What are you going to do? Not eat? Hide in a corner with your takeout? Go do it. Here's the thing. No one cares. I’ve finally figured out after all these years that if someone is staring at me, which does happen, I know why. It's because they're curious. They're curious about something. Whether it's why I'm wearing a backpack in this town or why am I sitting by myself or, “She's speaking French with an accent. I wonder where she's from?” People are curious. They're not out there like, “Look at that girl. She's by herself.” It's not like that at all. It's not like you're wearing a big L on your forehead. Think about it with you. If you see someone solo walking down the street of your town with a big backpack on, aren't you curious? “I wonder where they're going. What are they doing? Are they traveling?” It's all curiosity and it's not negative. If you're worried about what people are thinking, that's the first part. It is not negative. If you can figure out how to make that place comfortable for yourself, like for example, one of the things I love to do as I travel and as I'm at home is I love craft beer. I love trying different beers all around the world. You could do this with wines or cheeses or whatever, anything that has to do with a restaurant. What's your thing? When I get to a new place, a bar or whatever, I love to sit down and get a new beer. Beer is like home to me. I can do that anywhere in the world. I have the thing that I can go to that's my company. I work at breweries often. I will go to a brewery and get a beer. I call it a focus beer, #FocusBeer. I work that way. It's part of finding comfort anywhere I can be in the world. Those things matter. I will make sure if I'm going out by myself, I will get a drink. Something that makes me feel a little like maybe takes the edge off, I will get a beer and I will enjoy myself. I will people watch, whatever. You can choose to get out your phone and have a conversation with someone across the world if you want to or you can choose to put your phone down. You can bring a book. It doesn't matter. It's about you, it's not about what other people think. It's funny because sometimes I'll pass by a restaurant that's super full. I'm like, “I don't know if I want to go into that one all by myself.” If I pass by a place that I can see that there is a table where I might feel comfortable, that's where I'll go in because I'm still introverted. You’ve got to take care of yourself. That's what it's about, it’s taking care of yourself, making it comfortable for you, and adventure. I find too, if I'm traveling solo, I'll have more opportunity to meet locals because they feel more comfortable coming up to you when you're traveling solo than if you're with other people. If you're putting out an energy that says, “I'm approachable,” then people will approach you for sure. For people who don't want to be alone. Maybe you're only traveling solo because no one else wanted to go with you and you'd rather have a buddy. I highly recommend staying in hostels. It does not matter how old you are. You can find hostels with a private room, which is what I like to do. The beauty of that is you have an immediate community if you choose to have it. You can meet people in the communal areas. That's something that hotels do not offer. Finding either like CouchSurfing, staying at a hostel or staying at an Airbnb where there's a host on site and you can expose yourself to other people. If that's where you are in your travels, your life, and you want to be around other people, then put yourself in those positions. It's easy to retract and do things on your own if you want to be solo. That's easy. In fact, you'll probably still get approached because people are curious. There are other people who are solo who are going to sit down at the bar next to you and start talking about beer with you, and realized you're not Italian and be curious about where that accent comes from. I love that about hostels. I learned that for the first time about a few years ago because it is lonely. If you go to the hostel community rooms, you meet the people. If you're not staying in the hostel, my week time of being alone is cocktail hour. That's when I want to talk to somebody. I don't care the rest of the whole day, dinner, no problem, but at cocktail hour, I want to talk. Go find the bar next to the hostel because that's where they'll be and they're traveling solo too so they're looking for somebody to talk to as well. What advice would you give someone who's considering traveling solo for the first time?    Go and don't be afraid. I don't think you're going to regret choosing to travel solo. You're going to learn something that's time well spent. Getting out, seeing the world, any of these things, these are adventures. This is our one life. We get one shot so go do it. You'll find that you're much more resourceful than you realize. You're going to be the one with a story to tell afterward. I encourage you to try it, test yourself, get out there and make it happen. --- Next up, let's hear what Monica has got to say about solo travel. After her interview, we'll get a guy's perspective. Can you start by introducing yourself and perhaps telling us your age? I'm Monica Aranguren and I am 58 years old. How did you get into adventure travel? Quite honestly, I found myself single again. That was back in 2007, 2008. I started to do a lot of hiking on my own at that time. When I got to my 50th birthday, I decided I wanted to do something bigger and that's when I started to look into adventure travel and planned to go to New Zealand at that time. Was that your first trip to do the New Zealand hike? I take it that you were going solo because you were single again? Yes. I didn't want to leave adventure behind. That's great that you're adventuresome. How did you make the mind shift to say, “I'm going to go on my own?” because it's a scary concept for a lot of people to go on a trip all by themselves. The comments I've also gotten from friends when I've let them know what I'm doing. I've been an independent gal all my life and it's like let's push on through. I was like, “I'm not waiting for life to happen to me. I've got to do it. I'm going to go on these trips because I want to see these places.” That was my motivation. Did you do that on your own solo or did you go with a tour company or how did that work out?   The New Zealand trip I went with a group. I went with Active Adventuresthere and had been making different trips of that nature since. Our regular audience will recognize Active Adventures as one of my favorite companies and affiliates. I'm super excited that I will be going on the same trip that Monica went on. Monica, how do you decide where you're going to go? Sometimes I see a photograph and I’m like, “I want to go there.” I might get a vision in my mind of a place I had been thinking about and then I start to investigate the location and how I might be able to get a taste of it. Are you still traveling now? That's been many years since you were single. Are you still doing solo travel as your primary way? Is that all you do or do you mix it up with others? How does that work? I've made some group-led trips. I've also done some that are self-guided where I'm still with a company that's moving my belongings, setting up the itinerary and the maps and all of that, but I'm doing it on my own. I would imagine when you're in the group setting on the guided trips, that also gives you some more socialization. Can you talk a little bit about that? Each experience is a little different. Meeting people from different places and learning about them, joking with them, creating songs with them, eating with them, all kinds of things. It's a lot of social interaction with the group. When I'm on a self-guided hike, it's a little quieter, but I also tend to favor that sometimes because I like to be in the quiet of nature. Sometimes I like to interact with the culture on a different level. I enjoy that piece as well. What are the pros and cons in your mind of solo travel? The pros are that solo travel lets you expand a little bit more in "getting out of the box." It lets you meet new people that you might not otherwise meet when you're traveling with a companion that you've known for a while like a friend, family member, whoever that might be. Cons, I don't think there are any. I will say I choose a single room so that I don't get any snoring so I can sleep on my own. For me, that's important. That would be the only con for me if I can't sleep. That's why I tend to choose a single room. Other than something like that, I can't think of any, quite honestly. Since I lost my husband and now that I'm traveling solo, the thing I'm always getting is, “Aren't you afraid about the big bad wolf, getting raped, mugged or whatnot?” Can you talk a little bit about the safety issues?       I have never felt not at ease. I've always felt safe on these trips. With a group, you're surrounded by your group all the time because you're doing all the activities with that group. The only time you're separate is maybe if you have a specific day that you have in a particular town on your own. You might visit that, but never any concerns of safety in that sense. When I've been on self-guided tours, in the case of the company that I worked with, I had a GPS, I had instructions and I had a phone. I had a contact I could call 24 hours a day if there was an issue. I always had someone who would check on with me. I felt like I was supported in both styles of travel. How about loneliness? Is that ever an issue? I would say during the self-guided hikes because I might see something and not have anyone to talk about it. Other than that, not really. When I'm with a group hike, I'm with other people. I've always got companionship with me. Another thing I always get is how do you eat by yourself? I've been asked that as well. I carry a book with me and go with it that way. I've gotten used to it. I'm not very self-conscious about it and enjoy interacting with the waiters, waitresses and the hosts wherever I'm eating, and enjoy myself that way. There's also more attention and curiosity when you're traveling solo and that you get a lot more local interaction, which I enjoy very much and think of as a plus. That is true, especially if you're at little small restaurants. The host or the owner might chat with you more, which is great. I was on a trip where an older gentleman, I was walking around and I had my camera going, came up to talk to me in Italian. I was in Italy and he was talking to me about how he had owned a camera like that. We had a nice little chat and then I was back on my way. That was fun to be able to chat with him for a while. If somebody is sitting on their couch saying to themselves, “I’m like Monica, if I don't get off this couch, I'm never going to see the places that I want to see.” What advice would you give them so they get the courage and the confidence to go try this on their own? Don't wait. If you're attracted to making this trip, do it. It will open up a whole other level of possibilities, experience and independence. Do it and enjoy yourself and don't wait for another opportunity. Have you found that solo travel is important too, that it's somehow changing who you are?   I'd love the companionship, but it supports my being independent and doing my life. Living my life the way I want it and taking advantage of the opportunities, especially outdoor hiking opportunities, while I can do it. That's how it positively helps me out. It empowers me. When I get back from one of these trips, I'm like, “I did that.” If I can do that, then I can do this, whatever my current real-world problem is. It's self-empowering. If maybe a particular trip is going to be a little more challenging, I've got to rise to the occasion to work out and get read. It feels great when I'm out there and accomplishing it. It's an empowering experience and one that supports a good sense of independence and moving forward the way you want. Have you kept up with any of the people that you've met on your trips? I have. I made a trip in the Mont Blanc area of France, Italy and Switzerland a few years ago, back in 2016. There were four singles on that trip actually. The four of us have had a couple of reunions. Our last one was in Toronto. We always go out a little hike and then eat out and see wherever we're visiting together. It's a lovely experience and this time, we were also able to hook up with a couple that was from the Toronto area that had been on this same track and got to have a lovely dinner with them. It was a great time together. I found that usually in each trip, there are one or two people I'll meet that we ended up becoming friends. Even if it's just Facebook friends, we keep up that way. In fact, when I go to the UK, I will be staying with a gentleman and his girlfriend that I met in theWest Highland Way for a couple of days before I start the long distance trek on the Cotswold Way. I'm excited about that. Can you tell us some of your favorite stories about some of your trips? I know you went to New Zealand. When you look back on New Zealand, what's the one story you tell? It was deciding to do the bungee jump. There were only two of us in a group of ten that had the courage to do that. I'm glad that I did that and the rest of the group cheered us on. I had a blast doing that. It was a little scary and I was a little nervous once I got on the plank that I was supposed to drop off from. It was so freeing and so much fun to be hanging down on this large rubber band. I'm happy I had that experience, especially celebrating my 50th birthday then. You've also gone to the Galapagos. What's your favorite story about the Galapagos? What struck me is there are many amazing animals, penguins, sea lions, fish and iguanas. It's fascinating to be surrounded by these wonderful creatures that are not timid at all with humans. That was wonderful. I remember, in particular, going snorkeling and seeing manta rays, these giant ones underneath floating and then swimming below me. It was amazing to see their size and beauty. They were golden and had some black spots on them and they were moving on their leisurely pace. It was fantastic. We did cover the Galapagos episode. We also covered Mont Blanc, which you've done too. What's your favorite story there?       This is a social story. All the hiking was fantastic in particular because we were above the tree line a lot of the time. That was beautiful to see these huge snow-covered mountains in your face and you are looking at them. It was a splendor for me. The social story is that the group I was with, a few of us somehow got into rapping while we were hiking. They come up with these silly tunes and that made me start to create this particular rap, based on all the food that we were eating. I presented that at the end of our tour at our last dinner. One of my colleagues in the group backed me up, making all the funky little rap sounds. We put it together and it was a hoot. We had a great time doing that. That sounds fun. That's a great story. You've got another fun place you're going to, which also has been covered on the Active Travel Adventures Podcast. Tell us about that. I’ll leave to make a trip in the Dolomite Mountains in Italy, north of Venice. I'm very excited about that. I'm excited to be back with a group because I've done some more self-guided hiking in the last couple of years. I'm going to be with a group again, which I look forward to. I'm looking forward to the scenery and the exercise because that's what we love about hiking is the workout too. It's going to be good. Annie, who I interviewed on the Dolomiteepisode, has traveled all over the world. She's done everything and she said that was the perfect trip.She said it was the best mix of exertion, the hiking, the scenery, the people and the foods. I’ll carry that with me for sure. Any other thoughts on solo travel or adventure travel you'd like to share? Seize the day. There's so much to see out there and so much to do. Get out there and do it. --- There's nothing like going on an adventure. Finally, for our last interview on solo travel, we're going to get a guy's perspective. Can you start by introducing yourself, please? My name is Jason Waitkins and I am 37. How did you first get into adventure travel?   My first trip was in 2003. I wanted to visit New Zealand. I was reading about it growing up and it sounded like a cool and awesome place. The Lord of the Rings came out and that propelled me even more. I'm like, “I have to go here.” In 2003, I went. I didn't want to go there just to sightseeing. I wanted to hike. That's what drove me into that being my first trip. Were you already pretty active before you got into adventure travel? Yes, I hiked. I grew up and my parent's house is right next to a section of the Appalachian Trail. I grew up knowing, “That's the longest marked trail in the United States,” and all that. I hiked the sections of it nearby. I then branched out from there. There are some pretty nice and interesting trails not far from where I live. Where is that? New York. I'm in what's called the Hudson Valley region. I grew up in Garrison, which is the town south of Cold Spring. It has become a hikers town because there are a few challenging trails near there. It's easily accessible from New York City. On the weekends, a lot of hikers come up on the trains because you can easily get off at the Cold Spring Station and travel around and you don't need a car. You can work your way back to the station. Our topic is solo travel. Is that something you've always done or is this something new for you? I pretty much always did solo initially because growing up, it was a small town. I was one of the few who liked adventure travel, so it was only me. I enjoyed it a lot. I always join a group usually. If it’s a tour, there's a group I usually end up joining. If they're not solo, then they are either with a friend or a spouse or whatever. We are there for the same thing. It's a good way to meet new people. What would you consider the pros and cons of solo travel? My best thing is I can pretty much go when I want. I can center around my schedule. There's no coordination. If there are two, three or more people traveling, it's going to be harder to get time off from work, for example. For me, I prefer solo traveling for the most part because it's easy to coordinate with myself. I look at the dates, “This trek is going here and I can go here at this point and I have a certain amount of time off I can take.” I did one adventure trek with my father not too long ago and we do have to coordinate. There was a little more work involved to make sure, “We're going to do this. We both have time off. We can both get there without issue. We’re both fit enough. We both know what we're getting into and all that.” There are pros and cons to each, but for me, I have a set of places I'd like to go, a set number of countries or treks that I'd want to do and want to visit. To me, it's easier. If I don't know anyone else who wants to do it with me, I go ahead and do it. You make an excellent point because not only do you have to coordinate the time schedules but also the physical difficulty rating is consistent for both parties and all parties. At the time, my father had some knee problems at the moment, but at the time, he was okay. It was a not too challenging trip, at least graded three. We always look at the gradings of the trip with a grain of salt. You have to know what you can and can't do. It's better to read the descriptions rather than just reading by the number they give. The company we were with, they assigned numbers one through six, six being the hardest and this one is graded two. Afterward, I say, “This was more like a three,” and it was because we were in Scotland. There are a few sections where there was no trail, it was pretty much bushwhacking and it was muddy. Walking through that section was quite difficult more so than it was. Even our leaders said that. You have to be careful. Make sure everyone can do it and make sure you know what you're getting into. Female solo travelers have a few different concerns than males. Can you talk about safety as a solo traveler from the male perspective? I personally have never been worried about my safety, but it is always a consideration. My first big travel was to New Zealand, which is generally a country more on the safe side. My next travel was in Peru, which is a developing country. I read up quite a bit on it. What vaccines do I need to get? What is the crime rate? I always read up on the countries I'm visiting, although you also have to take those with a bit of a grain of salt. A website I usually go to at least at first to check out the country I'm visiting is the US State Department website because it gives descriptions on visa requirements and any vaccines that are recommended. I always try to look that up. It also tells what the crime is. However, it is over-exaggerated to a degree. You always read about the bad things and I also look at what they say of the crime is. However, it tends to be over-exaggerated sometimes because you will only read about the bad things. They'll always say there are very high crimes and there are police corruptions or there's this or there's that. You’ve got to be aware of your surroundings is what I always do. When I was growing up because I lived close to New York City but not in it, going to New York City, I was always told like, “Put everything in your front pocket, not your back pocket. Watch out for muggers. Watch out for this or that, anyone who tries to bump into you.” You've got to be diligent and to do that. As a solo traveler, the first time where I was there ahead of when the official tour, I was joining started was in Peru in Cusco. I want to go there. I was worried about acclimatizing to the altitude and so I got there a day ahead of the main tour and walked around. I was feeling winded at least at first. I ended up adjusting perfectly fine. I was looking in all directions and making sure there were a lot of people around. No one ever came up and I never felt unsafe, but I was extra careful. The thing I do is a lot of the pants I wear for general walking around have zippers on them. I don't know if that helps or hurts. My biggest concern is my passport or my wallet getting stolen. Let's talk a little bit about what you feel when you're doing an adventure, whether it's hiking, paddling, cycling, and you do it solo. There's the possibility that you get hurt and there's nobody around to help you. Do you have any concerns about that or is that one reason that you do group travel? I experienced that personally. A couple of years ago, I was hiking in Acadia National Park in Maine. I ended up slipping and falling and not able to stand. I was traveling solo at that point. I had to take out my cell phone and I dialed 911. There were a few trekkers who walked by. This was a day hike. I wasn't backpacking or anything like that, but still, it was a very rugged terrain. A couple of hikers nearby stopped and said, “We'll wait until people come and get you.” They had to carry me off and that was a humbling experience. I kept thinking, “I'm not going to fall or this isn't going to happen. I'm still within civilization. I'm not in another country.” I can only imagine what would have happened if I was on the Inca Trail, where you have to hike for three days. What would have happened if that happened? Having a group and having a leader there who at least always had a radio or a cell phone to contact whoever that is, it’s quite comforting and more so now than it was many years ago. I did an episode on safetyon adventure travel and also another interesting story is the episode Part Two of the Kilimanjaroseries where our guest had to go down the mountain on a stretcher. It's a very interesting episode in that regard. Let's move on from the scary things and let's talk about how do you choose where you want to go next. When I first started this back in the early 2000s, I had a bucket list. The main two were I want to visit New Zealand, I want to hike there, and I want to hike the Inca trail. I was reading about how beautiful the trail is, how it's a great payoff ending up in Machu Picchu, which is also beautiful. After that, I started making a list of countries and places I wanted to visit and then looking at, “I want to visit here. I want to do this. Where's this located?” My biggest goal after making the Inca Trail was Kilimanjaro. I said, “Where is that? That's in Tanzania. That's in Africa.” I went from there. “What else is there?” Choosing that trip, there are a lot of tour companies that do Kilimanjaro and the one I ended up picking with was one that was doing a specific route up the mountain. It had extra days. It was more expensive, unfortunately, but it had extra days while climbing and it did a specific way. It did the Western Breach if you're aware of that trail, which most companies do the other way. This one, we did the Western Breach. We stayed in the Crater Camp, which is also rare for that, but I figured that was good for getting used to the altitude. That's why I ended up going with that tour company. Beyond that, there's a list of countries I'd like to visit. The main ones were Kilimanjaro, Galapagos was one, and the next one that I haven't done yet is the Alps, which is on my bucket list. Basically, I said, “Where can I hike that I haven't hiked before?” I started looking at the companies I've gone with before and a few other notable ones. I look at what they offer to see if it's financially feasible, if time-wise it's feasible. I pretty much go from there. I have a semi-life goal to visit every country in the world. I don't think I'm going to get there, but I want to visit and hike everywhere I can. I go with the ones I want to the most and I've done quite a few of them but there's still quite a few left. Have you found that solo travel has changed you in any way? Initially, I don't know if I felt different. I enjoy it like that's my vacation. That's how I get away from it. My first few trips, I wouldn't even take my cell phone with me. I'd leave it at home and that was my disconnection from the everyday hustle and bustle. As far as changing me, I don't know if I have an answer for you. It's helped me grow a certain way like enjoying because I live alone. I'm single and pretty much live alone. To me, it's a great way to meet new people because even if you're not with a group, you're always going to meet someone on the trail most likely. That's the way I interact with people, my fellow hikers. I don't know if it changed me in any way other than that. It's just something that drives me to continue going. I have places to visit. I want to keep going. Have you kept up with any of the people you've met on the trails? A few but not too many. There are a few like with Kilimanjaro because that was such a small group and that was a long track. It was a long trip. The whole trip was eighteen days, but to trek up the mountain was nine days total. We got to know each other well. We still communicate through email every once in a while. It’s usually around the anniversary, which is late January. We usually send emails saying, “It's been five years, it's been six years, how is everybody doing?” There are two people who I do send a Christmas card to because they send one to me each year. We write down what treks we've done or what we're planning on doing. They sent me one a few years ago and they said, “We finally made the Inca Trail that you talked about. It was as you described it. It was great.” I always write down what I did. “I did the Galapagos. I did Nepal and all that.” A lot of people, when they find out that I'm going to be traveling solo, say, "Aren't you scared or don't you get lonely?" What advice would you give somebody that's on the fence and trying to decide whether or not they should try a solo trip? Try to join a group of some kind, an adventure trekking tour where you'll be joined with other people, preferably a smaller group. A nice number would be between eight, twelve, fourteen people is probably ideal because then it's not too big and it's not too small. Do that. Try to look up an organized tour of an area where you want to visit, whether it's Machu Picchu or somewhere in Europe, wherever. See if you can find a tour company that has a group that you can join because of the way I see it, everyone is there to do what you're doing. We're here to hike this trail. We're here to visit this landmark or whatever it is. That's going to be a thing you have in common. Every trip I've been to, I'm nervous when I step off the airplane, especially if it's a country where English isn't the first language. I made it through passport control. I handed them my passport. They stamped and I went through. I'm like, “Where's the meetup point?” I'm always worried that I'm going to miss the meetup. It's never been a problem. Usually, they always say, “The leader is going to either hold a sign or they're going to be wearing a brand of shirt of some kind.” I came back from Ireland and we had to meet in Belfast in a small out of the way bus station. There was a bus station and the train station and they're both connected by a hallway. I was walking back and forth a couple of times through it because the leader was late by five to ten minutes. I was worried like, “Am I missing this tour? What's going on?” I ended up seeing, “There she is.” She ended up walking through and she was trying to find parking because parking was limited in that station. Everyone nearby walked up and said, “I'm part of this group.” I get nervous for the meetup, but once the meetup is done, we all say hello, and we're all like, “Let’s go. Let's do this.” By the end of the trip, we're all saying our goodbyes and saying, “It was a pleasure to meet you and this was fun,” and everything. If you're worried about traveling solo, to sum it up, it's good because you're going to be with other people who are like-minded, possibly other solo travelers, and you don't have to worry too much about the organization. Everything's planned out for you. You just got to get to the location. You make a good point. When you use a tour company, they pretty much take you by the hand. You don't have to worry about the logistics of getting to the different places, which can be quite complicated, particularly if you're traveling solo and you can't juggle cars or whatnot. It makes it a lot easier for you, plus you're solo but with company. In certain countries like I'm about to take an Italy trip. I was going to take a few days ahead of the tour to visit some of the cities and I sat and planned. That was fun now because I can quickly look up, “I can take the train from Rome to Venice. That sounds good.” What hotels are nearby and whatever? I'll just join. My whole plan is I've got to get to where I meet the tour in Venice. After that, all I’ve got to care about is my flight home is the day they drop us off like, “That's it, done. I don't have to plan anymore.” If you're new to the program, I do a Travel Planner for each of the destinations that we cover on the show.You can download these for free by going to the page for each corresponding destinationor go to the directory page and click on the destination and get it from there. If you sign up for my monthly newsletter, you will get them automatically for free. It's my way to help you plan your adventures with confidence. It will have weather information, safety information, recommended tour companies and suggested itineraries. Everything on a handy, usually a two-page printer-friendly with active links document so that you have on one piece of paper everything you need to know and do to plan your adventure. How about we finish up with you sharing some of your favorite stories from your trips. When I name off some of the adventures I know you've taken, can you tell us your favorite go-to story when you think about that destination? Let's start with Annapurna, which is one of my most popular episodes. For those unfamiliar with Annapurna, it's in Nepal. I wanted to see the Himalayas. I didn't want to do Everest because I had already done Kilimanjaro. I was climbing so high to see altitude for the sake of saying I climbed it. That's not on my bucket list anymore. Annapurna, that whole circuit was very beautiful. You see a lot of mountains one after the other. Each one beautiful and the highlight was completing it, getting to Annapurna base camp. I forget the altitude offhand, but that was actually a trek. We had pretty good weather and we got up early one day and saw the sunrise over. I got some great photos of the sunrise over the Himalayas and that was probably the best. It was maybe not of the hiking part, but it was interesting being in the city of Kathmandu, the capital city. It was quite interesting that it was organized chaos on the roads. The section where we went, the Thamel area, where there are a lot of trekkers. The roads are very narrow and everyone was walking around. It was quite a cultural experience to see how people every day get up and do this, but from a hiking standpoint, every day had more beautiful views than the next. What about your first adventure trip to New Zealand? My favorite location, I enjoyed the area where we went to Milford Sound. It was very beautiful. It rained that morning and then it stopped. Our guide had told us this is perfect. When it rains there will be a lot more waterfalls that you'll see because a lot of them just trickle or whatever while it's sunny out. When it rains and after the rain, you'll see a lot. That was beautiful walking around that area. I also enjoyed Mount Aspiring National Park. That one we walked in and we camped in a hut for a night. It snowed that night. On the way back it was snow covered. It’s not a lot. It was maybe an inch or two, but it was cool to have pictures going one way where it's all green grass and clear, and coming back, everything was snow covered. It was beautiful. How about your Galapagos adventure? Did you do just the Galapagos or did you also do mainland Ecuador? I did both. In terms of hiking, I enjoyed the mainland better without a doubt. I can't remember the town we were in, but it was a town down in the jungle. We did what was called reverse canyoning, which is climbing up waterfalls. These waterfalls aren't like the raging waterfall. They are not the Niagara Falls type waterfalls. It was an awesome and challenging, but not too challenging, hike through the rainforest. They told us ahead of time, “You're going to get wet. If your camera isn't waterproof, don't bring it.” It was nice. It was a three-hour hike to where we were going through rivers and up the waterfalls and whatever. It was an hour or two off the trail that was dry to get back to where we were. The Galapagos itself, honestly, the best thing was snorkeling and Kicker Rock. We came up close with hammerhead sharks and they said, “You don't need to worry.” There were quite a few times where I was like, "Are you sure we don't need to worry?" Swimming and seeing, I saw at least three types of sharks. There's a Galapagos shark. The whitetip reef was the other one. We saw quite a lot. There were tons of wildlife in this little area snorkeling. We spotted eagle rays. They are beautiful, that’s another thing. I can't say enough how awesome the sea turtles looked. Everyone that I saw was beautiful. Whether it was sitting still in the areas where we saw them resting or whether they're swimming. The Galapagos, hands down. It was the snorkeling. We did hike a couple of spots, but these hikes were nothing compared to the mainland. You've made some killer trips. How about Patagonia? The biggest accomplishment with Patagonia was definitely the W Trek. That was difficult. It was the second hardest trek I've been on because the way we did it was the first day we go up to Torres del Paine or The Towers of Blue. That was twenty kilometers total round trip. That was the first day and by the end of the day, everything was hurting. I was like, “We've got four more days of this? What did I sign up for?” After that, the next day was only eleven kilometers and it was mostly flat. That was a joke there. They always would say mostly flat. It was never properly flat. It was always ups and downs all over the place. That’s the whole completing the W Trek. After the second day, I was like, “This wasn't too bad. I'm going to do this.” I've never backed down from a hike before. “I'm doing this.” The very last day was beautiful viewpoints over the huge Grey Glacier. That was the biggest accomplishment and the best hike of the Patagonia trip. When is your next adventure? I'm going to Italy and hiking the Dolomites. It's my first trekking in mainland Europe. I've trekked in Ireland and I've trekked in Scotland, but I've never trekked in mainland Europe. It's been on my bucket list and I'm doing it. I'm sure you're going to enjoy that. Annie who I interviewed on the Dolomites, who has traveled the world and done amazing adventures all over the world, said that was the perfect trip. It was the perfect mix of culture, food, hiking people, everything. She said it's marvelous. I'm looking forward to it for that reason. Do you have any final thoughts for our readers? The only thing I can think of is if you're worried about solo traveling, just do it. Go with a tour company. You don't have to organize it completely by yourself. That sounds like a daunting task even for me now. Do it. You won't regret it. I agree because you can plan regular travel on your own but trying to plan the logistics for adventure travel is super difficult. I always recommend using a small group tour company. Seeing some of the trips I've been on, there's no way I would've been able to know to do some of these things or been able to organize it. There are a lot of logistics going on there with fees and permits and all that. Not only is planning an adventure trip logistically difficult oftentimes, particularly in foreign countries, but it can also save you money by using a small group tour company. You don't have to rent all the different vehicles and hire different guides in different places. It's all planned for you and you have the benefit of having other people help share that expense. It's been great having Jackie, Jason and Monica on the program to help share their insights in solo travel. I'd like to share with you some of the rules that I've made for myself now that I'm doing solo travel. These are in no particular order and many don't apply if you're with a small group tour because all this is taken care for you. If I'm truly traveling solo, here are some of my rules. I want to know where I'm staying that night by noon. I don't mind winging it and figuring out my itinerary and such when I get to a place, but I want to know where I'm going to rest my head. I'll make sure I book something at least by noon of the day that I'm going to be staying somewhere. I make sure I arrived before dark, in case I get lost or run into some other complication. I always keep my eyes on my food and drink, making sure they don't leave my sight. I don't go to the restroom and leave my drink on the table so I don't have to worry about somebody slipping a drug into it. I'm careful of overly friendly locals, particularly if they have no reason to be overly helpful. You might find somebody on a bus or a train that says, “Let's share a cab,” or they're all of a sudden your best friend. Often that could be a setup for a con that it's their partner in crime that you're “sharing the cab” with. Be a little bit cautious about that. Get your hotel to call you a taxi or take the ride share programs like Uber or Lyft and use somebody that's got multiple stars. When you get to an area, ask the locals about the area. Show them a paper map and have them circle areas that you should avoid. When traveling, always be aware and keep mindful of your situation. Be aware of who's around you and if the hairs rise in the back of your neck, your subconscious has seen something that you may not even be aware of. Take action and don't be afraid to make noise telling somebody to back off or make a scene. I know we're raised to be polite, but that is not the time to be polite. That’s the time for you to make a commotion. When you're in an area particularly if you don't know, always have an exit plan. Figure out how do you get out of the situation should something arise. Make sure somebody knows where you're going to be and what time you should be there and at what time they should raise the red alert. If you're traveling internationally and don't want to use up your data, still periodically turn on your phone so that your phone registers the GPS of your last known location. If you're not sure if solo travel is for you, try doing what I call doing the plus one. Wherever you are in your comfort zone, push it a little bit so that way you stretch your boundaries. Build up your courage, build up your self-confidence, and get the benefits that I keep talking about by doing this travel. You're not going to regret it. If you've never taken a trip by yourself, why don't you try going for a weekend? It doesn't have to be some big exotic place. Go someplace by yourself for a weekend and see what it's like. Maybe after that, you'll have the courage to try a week and then perhaps after that you might try going on some international trip. Each time you do it, push yourself just a little bit more outside of your comfort zone. In all the times I've traveled and all the places I've gone, I truly have never had an incident that I can even relay to a problem. You heard the same thing from our guests, particularly Jackie who has been everywhere, has never had an incident and she's been doing this for many years. We also talked about a whole bunch of destinations. You can go to the directory page and click on any of the different destinations and see all the cool places we've covered on this program. Finally, I'd like to ask you, as I'm planning the adventures that we're going to be doing, can you reach out to me? I don't care if it's email at Kit@ActiveTravelAdventures.com, via Facebookor our Facebook group, at Twitter @Kit_Parks, on Instagram, @Parks.Kit. Let me know where you do want to go so I can put together the programs that you need to plan your next big adventure. I will be back with another great adventure. Until then, this is Kit Parks, adventure on. Important Links: Traveling Jackie The Budget-Minded Traveler Travelling Jackie blog CouchSurfing Active Adventures Cotswold Way– Past episode Galapagos– Past episode Mont Blanc– Past episode Dolomite– Past episode Safety– Past episode Kilimanjaro– Past episode Directory Page– Active Travel Adventures Annapurna– Past episode Patagonia– Past episode Kit@ActiveTravelAdventures.com Facebook– Active Travel Adventures Facebook group- Active Travel Adventures Closed Group @Kit_Parks- Twitter @Parks.Kit- Instagram Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Active Travel Adventures Community: activetraveladventures.com Active Travel Adventures Facebook Page Active Travel Adventures Facebook Group Active Travel Adventures Twitter Active Travel Adventures Instagram Active Travel Adventures YouTube Kit Parks LinkedIn

Considerations:   When it comes to tarps or tents, deciding what to bring for your next adventure, means you have to consider several features:   Durability and ease of care and repair Ease of set up and whether you expect to do so during daylight hours What temperature range you expect to use it in Type of weather conditions you’re likely to experience Volume - how much space will it take up in your backpack What kind of terrain will you be setting up in? Your personal comfort level with being exposed : your need for privacy and need for feeling safe and contained in the wild.  How much do you want to minimize critter invasion. How much head room and general space do you want? Are you claustrophobic?   Ventilation and condensation Weight:  how much weight are you willing to carry? Cost:  how much are you willing to pay to hit as many of your checklist items as you can? Other Questions:  Do you have different kinds of adventures?  You may want to invest in something that is modular, say, the bug tent can be left behind when not needed.   There’s a relatively new fabric called DCF for Dyneema Composite Fiber, nicknamed Cuban fiber.  This fiber is the strongest in the world, about 15x the strength of steel when you compare it by weight.  But it about doubles the cost of your tent or tarp, but cuts weight significantly to about ½-¾ oz per sq yd. Cuban fiber does have some drawbacks:  its stiff, so you can’t really squoosh it, meaning you have to fold it which adds wear and reduces its life. Folds are a ‘no no’ in performance gear, because you can create weakness and fiber breakage by repeatedly folding fabric the same way.   Heres another way to reduce weight:  You could reduce the typical coated polyester or nylon fabric from 30 oz to 15 oz weight for more cost, but that means less strength and durability.   Ultra Light is popular:  of course saves weight, but at a higher cost and less comfort.  I sewed my original gear using Ray Jardin’s Beyond Backpacking book.  Great how to (extreme how to) of lightweight backpacking.  This 2009 classic will give you food for thought. So many of the gear he made can now be bought ready made lightweight for better performance (again at a cost)   Waterproofing: The best waterproofer is silicone, so many fabrics are silicone coated.  However, you can’t seam tape with a silicone coating, so sometimes the outside shell of your tent or tarp is silicone coated, but the inside is wither polyurethane or polyethelene coated so the manufacturer can make seams.  It’s not a bad idea to use tent waterproof spray periodically to add life to your unit.  Ditto for tent seam sealer.  Nothing more unpleasant than a failing waterproof coating!  Obviously, a waterproof tent or tarp is a must!   Titanium Stakes:   I have found it worthwhile to upgrade my tent and tarp stakes to titanium.  Yes, they are more expensive, but they are super strong and they are so much lighter!  To make sure I don’t accidentally leave one of these jewels behind, I tie lightweight and neon colored surveyors tape to each so that they are easy to see when I break camp as well as for everyone to see that there is a rope they could trip one, so it prevents falls as well.   Consider renting gear!  Remember:  you can rent gear!  Don’t forget that. Check with you favorite outfitter to see what they have available.   If you plan on buying online, please also consider using the links on this cheat sheet and on the  ATSP website, Some of them are affiliate links, and at no additional cost to you, you are helping to support this podcast and keeping it ad free - thanks! Directory to all ATA podcasts: Adventure Travel Show podcast Active Travel Adventures podcast Episode Transcription: Below is a machine transcribed transcription of this episode. There are sure to be some boo-boos but for those that prefer to read rather than listen, I wanted to provide this for you. Welcome to the active travel show podcast. I'm your host kid parks. Today we're going to be talking about what's best, where in particularly what's best for you, tense tarps, and then there's a couple other options as well. This is a topic that people have bantered about for decades as to which is the best method, the each have their pros and cons and that's what we'll be discussing today. So let's get started. When deciding whether a tent or a tarp is going to be the best option for you for when you go camping or backpacking. There are 10 things that you need to consider. I'm going to first name them and then we'll dig down a little deeper. So here they are, but not in any particular order. Number two, the ease of setup and whether you expect to be doing so during daylight hours. Three, what temperature range do you expect to use it in? Hot, cold. Number four, what type of weather conditions are you likely to experience? Five. The volume. When you put this in your backpack, how much space is your sleep system going to take up? Number six what kind of train you could be setting up in hilly flat. Number seven, your personal comfort level being exposed, your need for privacy and your need for feeling safe and contained in the wild. How much do you want to minimize critter invasion? How much head room and general space do you want? Are you claustrophobic? Number Eight, let's talk about ventilation and condensation. Nine wait, biggie, Biggie, biggie. How much weight are you willing to carry and that leads us to number 10 cost because how you figure out all the things above is going to determine how much it's going to cost. How much are you willing to pay to hit as many of your checklist items and your preferences as you can? As a rule, camping tents are pretty durable and can be lightweight and easy to set up. My new tent has an Alasta sized collapsible aluminum frame that literally pops itself together with very little work on my part. You do want to try to buy a more advanced or late model to shore good ventilation technology has really improved over the last decade. In particular, my friend Jerry's first tent may have been a quote unquote bargain and it kept the rain out, but she had a wipe down the inside of the tent with a thick rag every morning from the heavy condensation because we transpire, I think I read once like a liter of moisture every night while we're sleeping. It was pretty gross and amend that her tent was always wet and that's something you want to try to avoid whenever possible is squishing your tent into your backpack while it's wet. However, attent is going to be better than a tarp and keeping you warm at night. But if it's the summertime and you're in a hot area and this is not a consideration because you only camp in the hot weather, then you may prefer the better ventilation of a tarp. Most tens are going to give you a better feeling of privacy and a feeling safe and contained. Whether real or imagined tense not only provides you this psychological barrier, they can also be a barrier to visiting or curious mammals. It's highly unlikely a bear or any other mammal is going to attack something. It can't see and it has no idea what it's up against inside that tent. I also found that true when I was tenting in Africa with all sorts of critters that do like to eat humans. We could hear them outside the tent, but they never disturbed any of us inside the tent. A tent is usually best at keeping bugs in the critters out, but with netting you can accomplish the same thing with a tarp. Sometimes these tarps are referred to as a tree tent and to me a tarp tent is easier to set up and bad weather. So what is a tarp? A tarp was a large piece of coated fabric, same kind of fabric. They make the tents out of that. Ideally you hold up the ropes to different trees, but if not, and you can use your poles as like a center beam prop up so it will form an a shape, like a tent. I find a tarp is easier to set up in bad weather because let's say it's raining while it's raining, I can set up my tarp tied to the trees and that I'm nice and dry sitting under the tarp while I set up the rest of my camp. I find it much easier than trying to set up a tent in the rain. I did think of my tarp set up is kind of like a floating tent, especially when I have lots of trees that can spread out the the tarp nice and wide. I've got gobs more space. Okay. And like with many products there's an abundance of choices in both tarps and tents so it's hard to choose exactly which one is the best camping tarp for you. Everything is going to depend not just on your personal preferences but where and when you plan on using it. Another thing I like about my tarp is that it's going to dry out quicker because there's less nooks and crannies for water to hide them whenever it does get wet. [inaudible] and I liked that my tarp is easier to keep clean on the trail and also want to get home. And I cannot emphasize enough that you're gonna need to take more time than you think you're going to need to thoroughly clean and completely, I mean, completely dry out all of your gear before you store it. Otherwise when you pull it back out, it's going to be rotten, moldy, and just disgusting. I know when you get home, you're tired, everybody's gonna be begging for your attention and you need to catch up on everything you missed while you're gone. But poorly cleaning and storing your cabling gear is going to cause you headaches and a lot of money. If you don't do it properly, tarps generally are going to weigh less than a tent, although if you're willing to spend the money, you can get a pretty lightweight tent. Yeah, tarps like tents are made from a fabric called ripstop, which is waterproof and extremely lightweight. I actually sewed my very first harp using information I found in rage. Our deans beyond backpacking book. This 2009 classic transformed how I thought about backpacking and my handmade tarp works great. 10 years ago when I went on my very first annual hiking clubs, major camping weekend, there's hundreds of us on this big, I think it was a boy scout camp somewhere that we rented out. My little handmade tarp was a source of great curiosity. I also custom sowed a little bug tent at a mosquito netting and I made a little ripstop stop ground sheet. So I think I had the benefit of both tent and a tarp and on both my tent and tarp to this day. I also took a piece of unsold ripstop fabric and I used that as sort of a foyer out front, and I pin that down with the stakes and that helps me keep the debris out of my sleeping area. So it helps keep it a little bit cleaner. I love my tarp, but only when I can tie it to trees to keep it high off the ground. If I'm gonna be camping where there aren't any trees and I've got to use my trekking poles for the height, then I find it a bit claustrophobic. Also, my high end, big Agnes tent weighs less than my tarp, and I have zero issues with the condensation like Jerry had. I have a funny story about the first time I ever used that tent. I had bought it to take with me on my Nicaragua. I can adventure because I wasn't quite sure about the tree situation. Like I said, I don't like to use the tarp. If I can't tie to a trees, I like to get it high above the ground, so I don't feel claustrophobic. This turned out to be a good call for me because at most of the camp sites, I would only have been able to elevate my tarp to the height of my trekking poles. So anyhow, on the last day of our adventure, we're at the base of San Crystal Ball. This is Nicaragua's tallest volcano. It's about 5,700 feet. And so after I set up my tent, I just went inside it to rest for a little bit and I could hear that I had irritated some bugs because they were buzzing underneath the floor fabric. So I keep lifting up the edges of the tent to let them out from underneath and afterwards I get up after my nap and I don't think anything about it. This is our final night in the wild and we had this great celebration to celebrate our summit of crystal ball and just the overall great adventures. One of my favorite trips was fabulous. Send the next morning when I wake up, I see all these diamond quarter size holes all along the perimeter of one edge of my very fancy and expensive new tent. Now Mind you, I'm pretty careful about cleaning any sticks and rocks from under my campsite. So I had tried to avoid any tears and holes, so I had no idea, couldn't imagine what may have caused all these holes. And it turns out that those little buzzing things, I heard this buzzy insects. I had laid my tent down over trail that was used by leaf cutter ants. A leaf cutter ant are these curious aunts who are about the size of carpenter ants. The air colony finds a source of leaf matter, usually trees or bushes, and they're going to form this trail of just thousands of thousands of ans going back and forth to the tree wherever the new food sources where they're going to take their large manacles and rip out a large piece of leaf about the diamond, the quarter size that I have, the holes I found in my tent, and they bring these pieces of leap back to the net. So you'll see this marching army of ants going to the tree. And on the way back, all the ants have got a little piece of green leaf in their mouth. So the leaves decompose and the ants feed on the fungus created from the decomposition. So in a way they're almost like mushroom farmers have decomposing leaves. Very cool. So my 10 screen, and apparently since I said I'm one of these trails, some of the ants decide they'd like to save a few steps. And so they ripped out holes from my tent. So somewhere in Nicaragua at the basis on crystal ball, there's a leaf cutter ant colony, and in it lies the permanent and decomposed remains of my tent, like the soup Nazi, no fungus for you, at least with my 10 parts. It makes a funny story, but I also want to give a big shout out this point to big Agnes, who is my tent maker as I just spent a small fortune on this tent and the aunts made it not only no longer rainproof, but now since they did on the floor of the tent, it would flood and even let the bugs and on the on the 10th floor, I sent it to them for a proper repair and I'm expecting a bill of at least a hundred dollars a more to fix it. But since the tent costs me well over three 50 I thought it'd still be worth it. I only use it this one trip and big Agnes charged me just 20 bucks and a small shipping fee. So Kudos to big Agnes for looking out for their customers. I'm going to put a picture of my holy tent on the website, which you can find at adventure travel show, podcast.com/tent you'll also be able to download a little cheat sheet about what we're talking about today as well. One thing I like best about a tarp shelter is that you can see all the things going on outside and you feel more a part of it. Of course, if you're a bit nervous about being out in the wild and being exposed, you probably are going to feel more protected and safe in a tent where you feel contained, like you're in a room. I do also like tarps too because they're going to give you the best ventilation because they are so open to the air and that air can really circulate my tent. I don't really have circulation problems, I don't have any condensation problems, but there's something about getting more that fresh air that I find with a, with the tarp. So I do love my tarp. As far as weight goes. A tarps probably gonna weigh less than your tent, but always, always, always check the specs. Just to be on the safe side problem with the tarp. If you don't use it with a bug net set up, you are inviting bugs and critters and all that into your camp site. So keep that in mind. And depending on where you're camping, you may not feel comfortable without bringing that bug net. and by doing so, now you're increasing the weight, so you get add the two parts together and compare that to your favorite 10th choice. Another drawback to the tarp, let's say the temperatures are dropping low, where you're going at 10 it's gonna be able to keep it more that heat compared to a tarp. The thing that made the tarp good, that nice ventilation is also going to mean it's going to get cold pretty quick. So you've got to consider the forecast and what the nighttime lows are of where you're going. And also look at what is your sleeping bag rated for? How low can that go? Jelly speaking. A tarp is only going to be good for late spring to early fall usage, depending on the weather, of course. And you can use your tent year round though. I love my tarp by, I also remember one night in particular that I wish I had a tent. Jane, Jerry and I are doing that life changing two week backpacking section, hike of the Appalachian trail. We could see that some storm clouds are rolling in. So we decided to make camp early, get set up, eat and get all tucked in before the skies opened up. We found a well you site just off the trail that was nice and flat, but the ground was really compacted from all the heavy use. We set up, our camp quickly ate our dinner at four 30 in the afternoon and we're snugging our tents and in my case, my tarp by five that afternoon as the storm comes rolling through. Okay, perfect. Right. And we were especially grateful for being nice and dry whenever we heard these other hikers out there walking by us drowning in the downpour as they were walking by or campsite. As the rain is pounding the ground, the drops of rain were bouncing off this compacted soil and bouncing underneath my tarp, getting me and my sleeping bag wet. I remember I like to have the head rooms. I had it pitched pretty high. Found out that doesn't work so well on compacted soil in the rain, so I had to get up in the rain and in the storm and then lower my tarp lower to the ground so it would be wider rather than taller and that these ricocheting raindrops would no longer hit me and my sleeping bag. A lesson I learned for the next time I see storm clouds coming and amusing. My Tarp. One thing I do love about my tarp bug set up is this. If I'm confident of no overnight rain, I can set up just the bug tent and then I could see not only my perimeter, but also the night sky and get a complete view and all the breeze. It is pure heaven without bugs. It's wonderful. Here's another consideration. Got To think about regardless of what camping, shelter choice and that size, you're going to see them advertise as one person or two person tents or tarps. Let's just say that the manufacturers are a little bit generous in giving themselves the benefit of the doubt as to how many people their products can comfortably fit. Okay. I purposefully chose two person tent even though I tent solo because I like to keep a lot of my things in my tent and a one person tent. While it may weigh less, it's really tight to fit into. It makes me a little claustrophobic and if for some reason I had to share my two person tent with somebody else, we'd had to be really close. I mean snugging clothes the whole night. I call my tent, the quote unquote two person tent, I would call it a one and a half person tent. Like I said, this weeks free download is going to be a comparison chart between tents and tarps to help you decide. Remember you can find it at adventure travel show, podcast.com/tent or you can get automatically with the monthly newsletter and if you haven't signed up for it, you can use the link on the website or you can email me@kittatactortrialadventures.com and I'll put you on the list. Remember, I'm not going to spam you. I don't sell your information. You just get one email a month from me, usually the first week of the month and that includes any travel planners from the active travel adventures podcast plus any checklists or downloads that we covered on this adventure travel show podcast, so it's easy and free and I'd like to believe it's a good resource for you. There are a couple other shelter options that we have not discussed. The Bibby sack and the Hammock a be a vac sack. Most people call it a bivy is a sack that you put around your sleeping bag to make it waterproof. Sometimes you're going to use a trekking pole to elevate the head area. Other times, not they're super lightweight, but I think they're pretty claustrophobic and a lot of people will combine their bivy set and set up a tarp on top of it. This is about as fast as you can imagine setting up camp because it's like just sliding on a large pillowcase. Your Bibby simply goes over your sleeping bag and you're crawling it like you're crawling into a cocoon. Well, it's not for me. You may like it because of its ease of use. It's lightweight and so it should be a consideration depending on what kind of adventure you're going on. However, there's one thing about Bibi's that also makes it a no, no. For me. Yeah. It's just like a tarp. If you're not using a bug net, which means that things can crawl over you at night. This includes snakes, Scorpions in any other critter. Another option is a hammock and where the tarp allows you to use your hiking poles when no trees are available at Hammock does not. You have to have some sturdy trees to put the thing up. I have a Hammock and to me the bug net was an important consideration. I had to make sure mine could come with the the, with the bug net option, I tend to camp during the buggy seasons, so a camping hammock with the mosquito netting was a must. I bought my portable hammock mainly for car camping more than as a backpacking hammock and frankly the one that got weighs more than my tent or my tarp. So it's super important to always check specs, especially the wait before you buy anything. I've also heard people complain that they think hammocks are too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. But I do like with the camping Hammock, you do have all that air circulation completely around you. So I think that's kind of cool. One really key benefit of a hammock is the now you can sleep on uneven terrain. Sometimes finding a flat place to pitch your tent or tarp can be difficult. But with a hammock all you need is two sturdy trees. For me, I am. It does take some getting used to and since I like to sleep on my side, it's not my favorite for nighttime sleep, but for a nap. I love it. Sleeping at night for me, not so much. Nonetheless, I often keep my travel hammock in the trunk of my car to use as a napping hammock in case I take a day out into a local park, especially unexpectedly. Here's the bottom line. Here's the thing. Every person and each environment really dictate which method is best for you. Some of the considerations will be dictated by your personal preferences. Do you like an open feel or do you prefer feeling more snug and protected? Do you want the method that's easiest to clean and maintain or the lightest weight? All these factors can dominate your decision. However, the weather you're anticipating can give you a reason to switch methods. Variable situations mean you need to consider some other things. What's the weather going to be like? Rain, snow, cold, hot. That certainly should be a consideration for which method is best for this upcoming trip that you're going on. If it's going to be cold, you're probably gonna want to use a tent. If it's going to be hot, indoor, rainy, a tarp might be a better choice. Provided you have trees, of course. Are you going to have to carry it? If you're car camping, you can get really elaborate and bring all sorts of things, but if you're trudging along way up, a mountain weight is critical and if you'd like to hike until late into the day, into dusk, into dark, you're probably going to choose something that's easy to set up, particularly if you tend to make camp while after dark. Okay. If you do a combination of different kinds of adventures, you may want to choose something that's versatile. Is the camping unit you're considering modular, does it allow you to add and subtract components? Say like a bug net so you can tailor your tent or your tarp to the conditions you expect it encounter. Yeah. Would you prefer an ultra light backpacking? Tendra tarp, lightweight tents and tarps don't come cheap. I've heard it said that it costs about a hundred dollars a pound for any weight you want to drop from your gear. I actually think it's probably a little bit more than that now, but the quality of the materials makes a huge difference in both the weight and the durability. There's a relatively new fabric called DCF for Dyneema composite fiber. It's been nicknamed Cuban fiber. This fiber is the strongest in the world. It's about 15 times the strength of steel when you compare it ounce for ounce, but it about doubles the cost of your tender tarp. However, it cuts the weight significantly to about a half an ounce to three quarters of announced per square yard. Huge difference. Cuban fiber does have some drawbacks. It's pretty stiff, so you can't squish it like we talked about earlier. This means you have to fold it, which is gonna add, wear and tear and reduce its life. Folds are big. No, no. And performance gear because folding can create weaknesses and the fiber breakage by repeatedly folding the fabric in the same way. So repeat after me. Do not fold your things in your pack and less like the Cuban fiber, you have no choice. Squishing your gear is always best, whether it's your rain jacket, your thermal jacket, sleeping bag, or your tent. Here's another way to reduce weight. You could reduce the typical coated polyester or nylon fabric that we're using from about 30 ounces to about 15 ounce weight. It's gonna cost you more, so you're going to have less durability and strength, but it's going to save your back a little bit because of the lighter weight. Again, everything's a trade off as you're shopping the best waterproof or a silicone. So you're going to find a lot of fabrics are silicone coated. However, a problem is silicone tape is the silicone coating. You can't do seam tapes to silicone coating, so sometimes you're going to find the outside of your tent or your tarp has got the silicone coating, but on the inside they're gonna use like a polyurethane or polyethylene. And this coding allows the manufacturers to make seams. So it's going to be one way on the top and the other way on the inside. And if I'm not mistaken, I don't think the silicone coding is allowed in California. Maybe for fire. I don't think it passes their fire tests. I might be wrong on that, but, but if I'm right, then I don't think you can get the silicone coating in California. A huge market. Of course, regardless, I think it's a pretty good idea to use tent waterproof spray periodically. This is going to add some life to your unit. Ditto for the tent seam sealer. Nothing is more unpleasant than a failing waterproof coating and obviously having a waterproof Tinder tarp is a must. And another thing, I have found it worthwhile to upgrade my tent and tarp steaks to titanium. Yes, they're more expensive, but they're also super strong and they are so much lighter and to make sure I don't actually leave all these little expensive jewels behind, I tie some lightweight and neon colored surveyors tape to each one so that they're easy to see when I break camp. Plus also they tell everybody there's a rope they need to watch out for it, so it prevents falls as well. Okay. I'm blessed to be able to afford multiple camp shelter options. But if you can only choose one method, think about the environment you expect to be using in the most and then go with the one that best fits your situation. Maybe you can rent or borrow the kind you didn't choose when that would be a better choice for any particular adventure. In fact, maybe it would be a good idea to rent or borrow different types of products before you even buy. So you're really comfortable in your choice. Gear can be expensive and don't forget you can rent gear. Don't forget that. Check with your favorite outfitter and see what they have available. If you plan on buying online, please also consider using the links on my website and in my travel planners. Some of them are affiliate links and at no additional cost to you, you're helping support this podcast and helping to keep it at free. Thanks. Yeah, so I guess it all boils down to the fact there's no one perfect camping shelter product. Each has its own pros and cons. However, for you in particular, there's gotta be one product that's likely to be the most suitable one that's going to best fit your personality and your preferences and the particular kinds of adventures that you'd like to take. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with your friends no matter what method you're listening to this with. There's going to be one of those little share boxes with an arrow. I'd be honored if you'd help use it to spread the word about the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll be back in two weeks this time. We'll be talking about solo travel. Subscribe now to this podcast so you don't miss it and next week on the active travel adventures podcast, the companion podcast to this show that comes out on alternate Thursdays where cycling Thailand from Bangkok north almost to the Burmese border. It's a great episode. I can't wait for you to hear it. Thanks for listening. It really means a lot to me that you take your precious time to listen to the show. It means a lot to me really. Until next time. This is kit parks at venture on [inaudible].  

There are three main areas to consider when we talk about minding our manners in outdoor environments. We will discuss proper behavior in regards to the landscape, wildlife and other people we encounter. Links Mentioned in this episode: Active Travel Adventures podcast (the companion podcast to this one that focuses on destinations) Hiking in Bear Country Episode 5 of the Adventure Travel Show podcast What to do if you get lost in the woods Episode 6 of the Adventure Travel Show podcast American Hiking Society Etiquette Tips National Park Service Safe Wildlife Viewing Guidelines Contact Kit Subscribe to the Active Travel Adventures Podcast APPEARANCE Leave No Trace.  Use trash cans when provided, otherwise pack out any trash or belongings.  In some areas, if you litter or leave things behind, someone literally has to helicopter it out or else you are asking someone else to pack out your trash - not cool! This includes biodegradable food scraps.  What’s the problem, you think?  Native animals will smell human scents on the scraps and learn to associate humans with food and you might contribute to them becoming pests.  Plus you could be messing with their digestion or they might eat rotted food and get sick and/or die. Worse, in the case of bears, you could be responsible for giving that bear a death sentence if they have to put it down. This also includes toilet paper.  I keep a labeled gallon trash bag in my pack to collect all of my used TP, wrappers, etc. Be a Hero and instead of Leave No Trace, practice Negative Trace, meaning pack out trash you see that others have left behind. If you have to go to the bathroom in the wild, choose a spot at least 200’ from water, a trail or a campsite.  Dig a hole about 6”- 8” deep, and then do your business. If there’s a stick handy, stir your waste with the soil and leaf mold and then cover your hole - remember your TP goes in your trash zip bag.  If you are in a camping area, it’s also considerate to leave your stick vertically to alert others that you have used that spot. In some areas that are particularly overused and/or especially fragile, you may be required to pack out your fecal waste.  This is truly brown bagging. Other areas that don’t get a lot of rain, the rangers may ask you to spread your waste over the rocks so that it speeds up decomposition.  Check with rangers or the visitor’s center to see what they would like you to do. In addition to Leave No Trace, leave everything you find behind.  This means don’t bring back souvenier rocks, flowers, seed pods, etc.  I have been guilty of this in the past, but finally realize that we should just bring back photographs and memories. Unless it is encouraged, do not make cairns with rocks.  Cairns are piles of rocks used sometimes to mark trails.  They are pretty and are necessary on some trails. Likewise do not knock over any trail marking cairns.  Let Rangers and trail maintenance folks decide what cairns and trail markings need to be there. In the same vein, try not to disturb things and leave items in their natural condition, whether it’s rocks or vegetation.  Don’t mess around with cultural or historic artifacts, including pencil rubbings of gravestones or markers.  In one alpine area I was hiking, they said that the tiny tiny lichen on the rocks took a DECADE to get the size of a quarter!  That said, on non-trail tundra, it is better to spread out so as minimize impact. Trail Sustainability: If you come to a puddle, walk or bike through it rather than forming a new trail around it.  This is considered keeping trails and maintenance sustainable. Likewise, when you come to a switchback, don’t cut corners - literally.  This is super bad as you may be creating a channel for rain runoff that can truly hurt the trail. WILDLIFE DO NOT feed wildlife.  Not only are you teaching them to beg, you are creating a pest.  If animals become dependant on humans feeding them, when tourist season is over, the animals may have difficulty learning how to fend for themselves.  You are hurting not helping wild animals when you feed them. This also includes picking local food such as berries or apples and feeding them. You are emboldening the animals and making them comfortable approaching humans - not cool! Clean up your camp area and picnic table.  Even crumbs can turn small wildlife into pests. Don’t get too close to wildlife.  If the animals starts changing its behavior, you are too close.  For your safety, keep certain distances.  It is not worth getting hurt or worse to capture that perfect shot of a moose or bear. The rule of thumb is, actually using your thumb:  close one eye and then if you hold your thumb up to your open eye and can cover the animal with your thumb, you are at a safe distance.  This works out to about 100 yards for large animals like bears and moose, and 25 yards for most medium-sized wildlife. Check with the Ranger about requirements where you are visiting.  For example, Olympic National Park has even more strict requirements. You can use binoculars or the zoom on your camera to get a closer look.  Put yourelbow on your ribcage or knees to steady your camera. Be quiet and still so as not to startle or scare the animal.  Quick movements and noises can make wildlife feel threatened.  A threatened animal can behave unpredictably. DOGS: If you are bringing your dog, keep it on a leash.  Most places require a 6’ leash. This is not only considerate, it is also safer for your pet, especially in bear territory.  You do not want a bear confrontation. On a leash, you will also be able to see when your dog goes to the bathroom so you can pick up and pack out its waste.  HORSES:  Horses and livestock have the right of way - ALWAYS!  And speaking of who yields to whom, bikers yield to hikers, and both yield to horses and livestock.   Be Considerate to Others & Mind Your Manners Be quiet!  If you want to listen to music or podcasts, use earbuds so that your audio doesn’t interfere with the enjoyment of nature by others Don’t block the trail if you stop to take a break,  Get over to the side. Obviously don’t camp directly on a trail. I have always been taught that the hiker going uphill yields to the person heading downhill.  However the American Hiking Society says the opposite.  What this tells me is that different areas have different etiquette, so pay attention to what the locals do and adapt accordingly.  Usually what I do is act to yield and I make eye contact with the oncoming hiker and that, with gestures, it all gets sorted out. Usually you see each other with enough time for someone to find a good place to step aside.  Basically, be polite, kind and generous. Observe group size limits, if any, requested by sites.  Often ten or less. If you are in a group, don’t take over the whole width of the trail.  This makes it easier for others to pass. As much as possible, hike and bike when you’re on natural trails in single file, or no more than double file. When YOU pass, pass on the left and announce yourself, “Passing on the left”.  On a bike, ring your bell so you don’t scare folks. Bikers yield to hikers (although I find it no problem to let them by) Try to choose times to hike or bike when it is less crowded.  More pleasant for you and others. Be considerate and informed:  Know the weather forecast before you head out and bring appropriate gear.  Know the terrain and what will be expected of you so you are capable of doing your activity without assistance or rescue.  Train for your activity so that you do not hold up your group. It is up to YOU to bring the proper gear, have the proper fitness and be prepared to self rescue. Bring a map and know how to navigate [See ATSP: What to Do if your get lost in the woods]. Let someone know where you are going, when you expect to return, and when to sound an alarm. Be nice when others are inconsiderate.  It’s ok to NICELY ask others to tone it down, or pack out their trash, etc., but keep your voice down and polite.  Give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they didn’t intend to bother you.   CAMPING AND CAMPFIRES When choosing a campsite: Use pads when provided.  Otherwise, try to choose durable surfaces that are resilient, such as sand, gravel, rock, dry grass or snow.  These surfaces are better able to recover from heavy use. Allow space, meaning don’t set up your camp right next to another camper unless the campground is packed.  Try to find a site where you can’t see or hear each other for privacy and so that you can both enjoy the nature you are out seeking.  Don’t assume other campers or even hikers want to hang out with you. Some people go into the wild for solitude, so don’t take it personally.  Look for verbal and physical cues and act accordingly. Keep noise level at your campsite such that only those in the campsite can hear it.  This includes not just music and children, but the adults, especially after they’ve had an adult beverage or two.  Be considerate of other campers. Cleaning:  Use only biodegradable soaps.   Wash yourself with baby wipes or a bandana rather than bathing in a stream or pond and getting your sunscreen and bug spray in the water.  THEN jump in the water!   Ditto for washing dishes.  I just use boiling water to sterilize and clean and don’t bother with any dish soap at all.  Strain your food scraps and then pack it out. I use a small square of cotton fabric as my dishrag.  I then strain my pot and dish water through it. I keep it clean with boiling water. Brushing your teeth:  Smells attract critters and bears.  Spit your toothpaste into the campfire. Campfires are being discouraged more and more these days.   You do not want to be the one to start a wildfire. Some campfire thoughts: Keep it small or go without. If it has been really dry, go without.   If it is windy, go without.  Remember that embers can travel a mile, so be sure to control your fires.   Know what the fire danger is in the area you are camping. If frie restrictions are in place, honor them! Use fire rings if provided.  If not, use existing campfire areas instead of making a new one. Use only fallen branches.  Do not mess with fallen trees as they can be home to critters.  Obviously don’t mess with live trees. Buy firewood locally so you don’t inadvertently introduce a pest to the area.  This is mandatory in most areas. Not as fun or romantic, but camp stoves are more efficient and safer than campfires for cooking, plus they leave no trace. Do not burn any garbage in your fire.  Some people would except paper, and I personally don’t have a problem with non-coated paper.  It never fails to amaze me how many cans and bottles I see in old campfires. Surely these folks know that metal and glass don’t burn.  Shame on them! Make sure your fire is always attended and then COMPLETELY OUT before you go to bed or leave the campsite. Store Your Food Properly:  This is critical in bear country!  Use bear bins, cages or poles when provided.  Listen/see ATSP Safety in Bear Country for proper food storage in the wild.   RANGERS If you see something, say something.  Rangers want to know about large animal sightings, carcasses and even improper behavior of others. Check with Rangers about the Do’s and Don’ts in the area you are visiting.

Sustainable Travel Our Guest today is Lauren Chu of the Ridgeline Report. As the world gets more crowded and the increase of the middle class around the world means that there are more folks touring the world, it becomes even more important to consider sustainability and our part.   Sustainable travel means we seek to minimize any negative impacts on the local people and environment of the places we visit, so that tourism can continue long term with a neutral or better yet, a positive impact.  Otherwise we risk damaging or ruining the very places we treasure.     Links Mentioned in this Episode: Active Travel Adventures podcast episodes: Cassis France Whitewater Raft the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon The Ridgeline Report (Lauren’s blog) Subscribe to the Active Travel Adventures podcast Sustainability’s Three Pillars: Environmental, Social and Economic   The Environmental Pillar   The Environmental Pillar seeks to minimize impact on the landscape and wildlife.   You can reduce you impact on the environment by using least the harmful means of transportation.  You can minimize waste by bringing your own reusables and following Leave No Trace principals. Buy (and then properly recycle or dispose) products with minimal packaging. When it comes to local wildlife, be respectful and avoid unethical businesses that exploit their animals.  While not all human-animal encounter tours are unethical, many are and if you saw how the animals were treated out of your sight, you would be appalled.   Sure it’s cool to ride an elephant, but did you know that some companies keep them chained on a small leash when not in service? Heart breaking! Do your homework before you go on an animal encounter tour and choose the responsible tour operator.  Call and ask questions, and while they might lie, as many companies “Green Wash” and act so responsible, dig deeper and ask HOW are they implementing their policies?   We all want to see the animals, but seek to find companies that put the health and wellness of the animals first.  Sadly this means that often you won’t have the super close encounter that you want, but it will be better for the animals.  Seek companies that show you the animals from more of a distance. Then you will also be seeing their natural behavior instead of tourist inspired behavior.   The Social Pillar   The Social Pillar consides how we impact the local community and its people.  To help prop up the social pillar, try to use local businesses, buy local food, and enjoy local tourism projects.    If you hire a tour company, ask if they are they using locals guides and are they taking you to the local restaurants and markets?    As relaxing as they may be, an all inclusive resort discourages leaving the compound, so while they are often using local foods and employees, the surrounding local businesses won’t get the benefit your tourism dollars unless you get out of the compound and wander.  Also, check to see whether the companies you hire are treating their employees fairly.  Lauren advises reaching out to a recent visitor on Trip Advisor and seeing if they’ll answer a couple of questions for you about their experience with a company.  Consider volunteering with local charitable projects.  Make sure any volounteer work you do is actually assisting local people help themselves.  I have found some NGO’s seem to put an ineffective bandage on a problem rather than truly helping to solve a problem,  because actually solving a problem puts them out of business. I prefer locally led organizations myself.  Instead of bringing things from your home country to distribute to needy in the country you are visiting, BUY THE NEEDED ITEMS LOCALLY.  I went on a mission trip to Haiti and was appalled to discover that we brought hundreds of pounds of beans and rice.  Sounds nice, no? Except we literally stole the sales from the mouths of the local businesses.  Instead, bring things they CAN’T buy locally, and then buy what you can from small local vendors.  That’s how you can really help!  In addition, LEARN ABOUT THE CULTURE.  If nothing else, take a few minutes to read the Wikipedia site about the country you are visiting.  There you will get a brief overview of their land and history which can help put what you see and the people you meet in some context.  I also like to check out this fascinating website that caters to business people doing international business, but this one page can give you a quick snapshot of the common embedded beliefs of a nation.   Bookmark it to check out before your next adventure!  Be sure to understand the cultural norms so that you don’t inadvertently offend the locals like the backpackers did in Malaysia that Lauren told us about.  A quick Google search can help you here. Remember that even though we are fascinated by the people and cultures that we visit, they are living what we consider an adventure as their everyday lives.  Do not treat their lives as a tourist attraction but rather meet with them on a one to one human level to learn more about the hows and whys of their lives which can help you gain insight into your own.  And remember, ask permission before taking a close up photograph.  People are not on display for your entertainment.   The Economic Pillar Really a sidebar to the Social Pillar discussed above:  buy from local vendors, choose locally owned and operated lodging, go with tour companies that hire local guides and treat them ethically.   Economic sustainability and following responsible tourism practices can not only help improve the lives of the people you encounter, but sustainable tourism means that it will continue to do so in the long term. Ecotourism is bandied about and the greenwashers will tout that they are eco friendly.  Do your homework to make sure they are not just riding the wave of what is trendy to call themselves.  Call them up, Lauren says, and ASK THEM not just about their sustainability policies and ethical treatment of employees, but ask them HOW they implement their policies.  It’s a good bet that a greenwasher will have all the right answers to the first question, but they are likely to flounder when explains the answers to the second.   Question:  Are you helping or hurting the places you love and visit???   Question:  Are you making the most responsible choice in regards to the three pillars when you go on your adventures?   Complete Transcript: Note that this is an unedited machine transcription, so there will be boo boo’s.  I offer this for those that prefer to read rather than listen to the show.     Kit Parks: (00:00) A quick glance through Instagram and you can see our public lands plus the even incredibly remote and inaccessible landscapes sound the most fragile and beautiful environments in the world are getting really crowded and I get it. You want to see them? I want to see them. They're special for a reason, so what can we do to make these lands and make these environments and our impact on them more sustainable? Today we're going to look at our impact, both positive and negative on the people and the landscapes and the places that we visit. Welcome to the adventure travel show podcast. I'm your host kit parks. This is a companion podcast to the Active Travel Adventures podcast. On this podcast you're going to learn about the how tos of adventure travel. Whereas on ATA, you're going to learn about destinations. I encourage you to subscribe to both today. I've got a great guest, Lauren Chu from the Ridge Line report whose specialty is talking about sustainability and safety in the wild and it's a great interview. I can't wait to share it with you. So at that further ado, let's get on with our interview with Lauren.    Kit Parks: (01:19) I was recently in Portland, Maine for the Women In Travel Summit and was lucky enough to meet Lauren at the opening night party. Lauren has an extensive background on wilderness safety and sustainability plus guiding in the wilderness. Welcome to the show. Lauren. Lauren Chu: Thank you so much. I'm super happy to be here. You've got a great background. And could you just tell us a little bit... I got a little bit about it from you that night and also on the website, but can you give us a little bit of a brief summary of, of who you are and the things that you've learned and some of your training and background?    Lauren Chu: (01:49) Yeah, absolutely.  So I went to school for engineering. So I studied engineering and after a few years in the workplace, I kind of found that my desire to be outside and kind of be connected to nature was far stronger than my desire to be working with machinery. And so for the past few years I've been working as a guide and as a kind of facilitator for programs around the world. So I work leading groups on hiking trips and I also work for an organization that does educational travel for students.    Kit Parks: (02:21) Cool. Cool. Now adventure travel has become huge when people even my age are doing it. So can you tell us a little bit about the rise of adventure travel on? Where's the buzz there? What's making it so cool these days to go on adventure travel?    Lauren Chu: (02:33) Yeah, it's a great point. And I think really what I've come to realize is that adventure travel is almost synonymous with travel in a lot of ways these days. I mean, everybody's looking for a hike or an off the beaten path experience or some way to reconnect with nature. And I think there's a few things that have contributed to this. I mean, the rise of adventure travel in pop culture has a lot to do with celebrities and celebrity status. I mean you think of Red Bull and the way that they've just elevated extreme sports athletes to kind of be these pop culture icons. And then you know, that fantastic movie, Wild with Reese Witherspoon came out of this one woman's journey along the Pacific Crest Trail and it kind of just skyrocketed her to start them as well. And it brought through hiking and that kind of backcountry experience to light again. And then even environmentalism has always been important in the past few decades. But recently it's become really mainstream. I mean, Nat Geo- National Geographic-  just won an Oscar for their work on Free Solo, which is incredible. But again, it's just created this idea that adventure travel is the norm and it's something that we should all be seeking.    Kit Parks: (03:38) Is Adventure travel harmful to some of the places that we go to in any way? Let's talk first... Let's break it into two sections. Let's talk about the impact on the local culture and the people. And then let's talk about the impact on the environment. So can you address, how does all of a sudden this mass of humanity, now we're invading some of these really remote places now in mass, how is that affecting the local people for good and for bad?    Lauren Chu: (04:03) Right. I think it's a fantastic question because when we think of these remote places and traveling to them, I mean these are the world's most fragile environments, both socially and environmentally. There's significant impacts that that can be had. There's one example I think of and Mount Kinabalu is the highest peak in Malaysia. And there was a group of backpackers a few years ago who decided they wanted to climb it and for some reason felt compelled to take photographs naked on top of this mountain. And you know, despite multiple warnings from their local guides to not do that, they took off their clothes. They had a picture taken, it was this harmless act of fun-ness or horseplay or whatever it was. And they actually ended up being jailed because of the disrespect that they had done to what was a very sacred place for the local people. And so while well intentioned and while I think it's important that we really get out there and take those risks, you know, there's a lot of considerations to be had for the people who live the adventure every day of their lives.    Kit Parks: (05:04) To us it is an adventure to them, like I think I heard you say that their reality, that's their everyday life.    Lauren Chu: (05:07) That's right. I mean we think about going on, you know, this Himalayan adventure or this Amazonian cruise through this epic wild landscape and for the people who live there and who have lived there for ever, it's the reality and it's something that they've had to grapple with is, is this big influx of people who want to see this adventure or to live this adventure and to ask somebody to share their everyday life kind of like a show or, or as a performance,  is really tricky and there's a lot of education that I think we can do as travelers ahead of time to respect those people in that culture.  Kit: Give us some examples.   Lauren Chu: (05:57)   So, I mean I think a lot of it is really just doing your research and it's hard and it takes time. But I think we have the responsibility to do it.  And it could be as simple as understanding the history of the people. So who lives there, you know, how long have they been there is, are there any sort of cultural norms or tendencies I might want to be aware of and then doing your research on, on a provider. So who is going to be taking you there and what is their relationship with the land? Do they live there? Are they from there? Do they understand the impacts that these activities have? And again, it does take a bit of effort, but it is entirely worth it. And I think it's fantastic that more people are looking for these kinds of ethical experiences.    Kit Parks:  (06:38)  That reminds me of the story. When I was in Bangkok, I was on a boat and one of the floating markets and what a floating market is, is all the vendors are on boats too.  And they're just kind of going through the alleyways in the canals and the waterways trying to sell their wares. And I always try to ask permission before I take a closeup photo of anybody anyway.  But just to be on the safe side, this one woman marketing, she had a couple of different things in the boat... I can't remember what they were though, but what you saw that we were tourists put her finger in front of our face and shook her head like, “No, no, no. I am not a tourist attraction!”  And I thought that was very interesting. I never forgot her. Of course, obviously I honored her request. I mean we've got to remember that there are everyday people just like us, they just have a different culture than what we're used to, which makes them fascinating to us. However, you still need to build a relationship before you just go snap in people's photos.    Lauren Chu: (07:20) Absolutely. And there's so much opportunity act for learning when we meet with these people who are so different from us. And instead of seeing them as canvas spectacle or an object to view or to enjoy, it's actually what can we learn from them and what are they doing that could be interesting or impactful for us. And a lot of times they're curious about us as we are about them. Absolutely. Particularly if they don't see a lot of tourists. And you know, there's, there's entire industries that have been created around big adventure travel destination. So Mount Kilimanjaro is a great example that I always kind of come back to. And I've had the chance to lead a group up to Mount Kilimanjaro and for me, the adventure wasn't so much in the hike, which was beautiful, don't get me wrong, but the adventure was in connecting with the people of Tanzania and understanding the vast, like the, the different tribes and cultures and diversity of culture that exists in Tanzania.    Lauren Chu: (08:20) And it's, it's a really great learning tool.  Kit Parks:  And Kilimanjaro and Nepal makes me think of something else to, depending on the guides that we hire, we're either helping or hurting the local people because there's great companies that properly pay and train their people and there's others that exploit the people and just take the money and actually take it out of the countries. So I think one of our ethical challenges is to look into the companies that we're doing business with to make sure that they're doing things in the manner that you want them to be doing things and choose your tour companies accordingly.    Lauren Chu:  Yeah, absolutely. And you, it's so important to kind of do our research and understand where that money's going, but also not to take away the agency that they have in making it a business because it's such important money for so many communities around the world.    Lauren Chu: (09:06) Right? Tourism is huge. And so instead of saying, we shouldn't contribute to this problem, we shouldn't climb Kilimanjaro, we shouldn't even try. It's actually how can we do it in a way that is mutually beneficial and contributes to a sustainable place that we can continue to visit and climb. And see for years to come. And what do we look for?    Kit Parks:  How do we, I mean, what do I even look for when I go to a website or try to check out an outfitter?    Lauren:  Yeah, it's an honestly a fantastic question and it's one that I continue to grapple with, but I think the best thing you can do is actually try to get in contact with somebody who works there. And yes, you can say, you know, they'll tell you whatever you want to hear, Yada, Yada, Yada. But if you ask questions around how do they pay their employees, how do they hold themselves accountable?    Lauren Chu: (09:54) What are their policies around social justice or environmental justice or, what measures do they take to ensure that the way that they operate is just and fair to their employees? And another thing that I've actually liked doing is reaching out to somebody who's gone on a tour with one of these companies before. So, you know, on TripAdvisor, on any kind of review site, it's a great place to find up to date information. And so I'll, I'll comment on one of the most recent reviews and say, hey, would you mind if I reached out to you? I just have a couple of questions to ask about how you found their policies around x, Y, Z to be, or whatever it is. And, and those are a few things that I, I typically do just to kind of do some surface level of vetting of the companies that on balance.    Kit Parks:  Do you think that this explosion of travel into some of these remote areas is as far as the people are in the culture go a benefit or a detraction or is it a balance or, or where do you stand on that?    Lauren Chu: (10:42)   Yeah, I think I am a huge proponent of adventure travel. I think it is fantastic and I think we should continue to encourage people to take risks and to go outside their comfort zone because that's where the learning happens. I mean, that's, to me the most exciting part of travel is when you learn something, you see something differently or you understand something in a, in a slightly different way. And so I think it is really important to continue to seek these experiences. But I think it's important to recognize that these experiences don't come free, right? There is a cost and will this ever be sustainable? It's a tough word to use, right? Sustainability is more of an ideal than a reality. But I think the more that we have conversations around principles surrounding leaving no trace or ethical travel or who does this benefit, we can certainly work towards a kind of a more humble and curiousype of traveler.    Kit Parks: (11:54) And at least in my experience, it seems that the people are grateful for the tourist dollars that are coming into their local towns and villages.    Lauren Chu: (11:57) That's exactly it, right? I mean they are business people, they are smart entrepreneurial workers who are looking to be involved with this global economy and we should certainly be able to take part of that as well.    Kit Parks: (12:11) So let's switch gears then and let's talk about adventure travel and its impact on the environment. You had mentioned earlier that we're talking about going into some of the world's most fragile areas. I remember, I can't remember where it was, it might have been in Glacier National Park. We were up pretty high and the only vegetation was some little Mossy Lichen on the rocks. And I think they said that it took decades for that Lichen to grow. So when you left the trail and got off trail, you're actually harming decades worth of growth. Can you talk a little bit about this invasion of the people trying to seek out all these cool environments, which like, you know, I'm all gung ho like you, and want to adventure travel, but I do see that as many people get out there that we're not necessarily treating the land with as much respect as we should be.    Lauren Chu: (13:01) That's it. That's a great point. And it's something that is super, super important to recognize. These are the world's most fragile environments and lichen like that, you know, similar to Kilimanjaro, it grows at a rate of a few millimeters per year. Right? So, you know, this is some of the most resilient but yet fragile at the same time, vegetation and life. And I think there's kind of this disconnect between our impact and the reality. So you can think that, oh, there's just so much space out here. It's just so vast. It's so big and it's so beautiful. Like my walking off the trail for a short time or me climbing up this rock to see this different viewpoint isn't gonna make a big difference. But in reality, the more people that do that over time, the bigger the effect that there is. And so, you know, leaving no trace is exactly that.    Lauren Chu: (13:55) It's leaving no trace of you being there. But more than that, to me it's, it's, it's the golden rule. Leave a place the way that you would like to find it. Right? And so it means staying on the trail, it means camping in designated areas. It means not making huge bonfires. It obviously means not leaving trash. And I think the more that we can instill that in people as the norm and not as something that we seek to, that we wish to do, but instead something that we have to do and are supposed to do, the better off we'll be.    Kit Parks: (14:29) Yeah. I remember when I was doing some sections of the Appalachian trail, I would get so irritated with some of the hikers out there because nobody wants to carry weight. You're backpacking. So I get it. We all want to minimize the weight, but when they'd leave their garbage or burn unburnable garbage in the fire areas, I'm like, they came out here for the beauty and then they're marring it for the rest of us and that would really get in my craw a little bit.    Lauren Chu: (14:53) No kidding. Yeah, I’m the same way. And you know, it's tough for, I'm not gonna say,  “Don't make fires”, and I'm not going to say that you can't go to these places, but, but there's certainly a level of responsibility that I think we have to take for each other. Really. It's just, it's looking out for each other.    Kit Parks: (15:08) So let's, let's talk about, so of course we want to stay on the trails and obviously you don't want to cut any live vegetation, trees or branches to make your fire. Can you just identify, leave no trace, I know you talked a little bit about that, but in a nutshell, what does that mean for people when they say when it regards to human waste and toilet paper and their trash?    Lauren Chu: (15:28) Sure. Toilet paper is kind of one of my favorite things to talk about in a funny way. So leave no trace principles are kind of these ethics, it's a kind of a code of ethics that people who travel outdoors and visit these backcountry areas should abide by. And again, the idea is that you leave a place the way that you found it in the way that you would like to find it. And so it means taking only pictures and not leaving garbage. And toilet paper is a, is an interesting one. It seems so light and so fragile and so many people just kind of leave it on the trail. I mean, the number of times that I've come across toilet paper on the trail is, it's just, I can't even, can't even articulate how frustrated it makes me.    Lauren Chu: (16:14) Toilet paper takes, I think around three years to biodegrade and that's in the most fertile environment, like in dirt or in like a forest full of mulch and full of leaves and wet leaves.  But you should really never be leaving toilet paper on the ground. You pack it in and you pack it out. So you just bring a little Baggie with you and you do your thing and then you put the toilet paper in the bag and carry it with you. It shouldn't be buried, it shouldn't be left. And if you don't want to see it on the trail, certainly don't leave it for other people to find.    Kit Parks: (16:48) Right. And actually when people say, “Oh, I bury it”.  But actually animals, will go dig that up too.   Lauren Chu:  Exactly. Exactly.    Kit Parks:  And speaking of like the biodegrading, one of the most irritating times I was up, I was in the little town of Cassis, France and there was this huge, huge cliff bluff that was just like a straight up hike to get up there. And I'm up there first thing in the morning, I got the whole thing to myself. It's absolutely beautiful except for all along the path was toilet paper because it hardly ever rains. So it doesn't decompose and it was disgusting.    Lauren Chu:  That's right. So anyway, I always tell people, bring a baggy, label it trash so you don’t get confused.  And then when you get to town you can dump it and use a fresh bag if you want. You never have to go in it, you know? So it's not a big deal.    Kit Parks:  Yeah, there's even some places now when I interviewed Mike of about rafting the Colorado River, they had to brown bag… they even had to pack out all of their human waste. That's exactly it. Yeah. And so is that common in many places or is that just in some of the really fragile places are parks?    Lauren Chu: (17:50) I would say that's kind of the but is it practice everywhere? No, and you know, in, in Canada or in Ontario anyway, in the places that I spend time, can you tripping in the summer there's what we call “Treasure Boxes”.  And so they're little... they're set up by, you know, Ontario parks or parks Canada and they’re boxes for you to use as a toilet. And so this is kind of their way of focusing on only putting human waste in one place. And so please use those treasure boxes. They're there for a reason.    Kit Parks:  I'd never heard about that before. That's new news. Cool. Cool. So overall do you have some overall thoughts about our impact in the world doing adventure travel?    Lauren Chu: (18:47) Again, I think I just want to kind of balance the idea of risk because taking risk is fantastic. Like I said, I think we should keep doing it. I think everybody needs to push themselves out of their comfort zone and seek these experiences in nature that for, for the past few decades, we've kind of forgotten in a lot of ways.  So that's one side of it. And then, and my, I guess my final thoughts are the more conversations we have and the more we hold each other accountable when it comes to safety and sustainability and adventure travel, we can certainly work towards a type of traveler and in a world and an industry that is sustainable and collaborative and mutually beneficial to everybody involved. And I think we'll get there and I think we can work to get there. And I'm excited to be a part of this new movement of travelers who care.    Kit Parks:  So Lauren you've got the Ridgeline Report. Can you tell us a little bit about that? And I'll put links to all of Lauren's website and blog on the show notes and on the website at adventuretravelshowpodcast.com/sustainability.  And so Lauren, can you tell us a little bit about the Ridgeline Report and whatever else you're up to?    Lauren Chu: (19:37) Yeah, sure. So, The Ridgeline Report is my personal blog and on it I kind of talk about hiking and biking and camping in Canada and around the world. But I do try to kind of provide a lot of resources for people around sustainability and safety. So, you know, I've got a bit on leave no trace principles and how to apply them in reality and just bits on hiking etiquette and, and all that sort of good stuff. So that's what's there.    Kit Parks: Well, I'll be sure, like I said, I'll be sure to link to all that. Lauren, I sure appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks so much.   Lauren Chu: (20:42)Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.    Kit Parks: Our thanks to Lauren for coming on the show. She’s given us a lot to think about and to chew on as we plan our future adventures. Some questions we need to ask ourselves: are we considering the impact that we're making on both the local culture and the environment when we do our adventures and what are some of the things that we can do to have a positive impact and minimize our negative impacts?    Kit Parks: (20:51) I'm going to have tips both from Lauren and from other research on the website, adventuretravelshowpodcast.com/sustainability and of course newsletter subscribers will get the monthly, once a month newsletter that it's going to come automatically. I would like to ask you, this is an important topic to please share this with with your fellow adventurers. It gives us all food for thought about where we stand and what kind of impact we're going to have in the future. In fact, next up I'm going to explore a little bit deeper and we're going to talk about manners. We're going to talk about outdoor and wilderness etiquette. There's lots of things that we're doing right and there's a lot of things we'd be not even realized that we're doing wrong. So we’ll drill down into that so everybody understands what is considered good manners out in the wild, our public lands are getting crowded, shoot for that matter, the whole world is getting crowded and if we all just play nice together, just like our parents taught us, then these beautiful and fragile lands will continue to inspire folks for generations to come. We just all need to work together and to think before we do and consciously choose to have a positive impact, Lauren will be right that we will get there in the future. Again, lots to think about today.    Kit Parks: (22:00) Next up on the companion show podcast, the Active Travel Adventures podcast. We're going to Acadia National Park and I'm super excited to share that with you. So that'll be coming up next week and again, the following week we'll be learning our manners in the wild and until then, thanks for listening. This is Kit Parks, Adventure On!

Eating Right For and On Your Outdoor Adventures Nutrition can be especially important when you are exerting so many calories hiking, biking or paddling!  You are burning a ton of calories, so you need nutritious fuel from the food but you also need a lot of calories.  The conundrum is you are no doubt trying to minimize pack weight.  What to do?  I asked nutrition expert, Lucy Hayhurst of Well Balanced Nutrition to join us on the show today. Meet Lucy Haywurst, Nutritionist and Founder Well Balanced Nutrition Lucy studied Nutrition and Dietetics at the University of Dayton and completed her Dietetic Internship at West Virginia University Hospitals. After becoming a registered dietitian, she moved to Durham, NC and started Well Balanced Nutrition. With over 10 years of practicing nutrition and wellness coaching Lucy offers a unique perspective coming to the table as an expert in behavior change. She helps take what you know and turn it into lifestyle habits. Lucy combines her enthusiasm for fitness and playing in nature with her love for nutritious food and the result is a fun, interactive adventure for her clients. Lucy can light up a room and inspire a crowd. In addition to individual counseling, she is an author and motivational speaker. Fuel vs Fluff Nutritious foods are the fuel that give you the energy for your adventures.  But there is also a place for ‘fluff’! A well balanced diet builds your glycogen stores (carbohydrate energy storehouse).  Fuel your tank with complex carbohydrates such as whole grains, beans, sweet potatoes and such.  The complex carbs burn more slowly and help keep your energy more consistent all day. However, when you need a quick burst of energy, say you are about to do a major ascent, this is the time for fluff, or the simple carbs (think the ‘white’ foods like white bread, chips, etc.):  Lucy loves candy corn and nuts; I prefer a Snickers bar. While researching, I read a great article in Backpacker magazine that had a wonderful analogy from Julia Delves of Trailside Kitchen: “Eating refined carbohydrates is like trying to keep a bonfire going all night with newspaper,” she says.  ” Eating unrefined complex carbohydrates, like brown rice or quinoa, is like using large logs. They burn better and longer, give off better heat, and improve your overall enjoyment.” Fat is Your Friend Not all fats are created equal:  Good fats have Omega 3 and are actually good for you plus make food taste good! Lucy says that a good fat is one that you eat in its original state.  Good sources of Good Fat include avocados, nuts and olive oil.  Contrast this with the high fat in potato chips or candy.  These products have been processed so that they are no longer in their original state.  While ‘baby’ carrots are simply shaved down carrots and are therefore ‘processed’, they are still ‘carrots’ and that is still the only ingredient listed on the package.  Potato chips, on the other hand, will list multiple ingredients, many of which are unpronouncable.  So now it’s no longer just a potato and from the long ingredients list, you have a good indication that potato chips do not include good fats. FREE Monthly Cheat Sheets Download the Nutrition Cheat Sheet and then you will automatically get all future FREE downloads in a once a month email for both the Adventure Travel Show AND Active Travel Adventures podcast – sweet!  Click the box above! I don’t sell your info or spam you – I promise!  Kit Salt is BAD, right?  Wrong!    You can lose a lot of salt and electrolytes while on your outdoor adventures.  Sports drinks are often loaded with sugar (and sometimes TOO much salt).  Lucy recommends adding electrolytes to your water and avoiding the sports drinks.  Lucy likes a tasty electrolyte brand called Skratch.  You can lose about a gram of salt per liter of sweat.  If you see a white ring around your hat or collar, you may be a salty sweater.  And I thought it was sunscreen:)  Another easy and tasty way to add salt is to season your food with hot sauce!  You want the color of your urine to be as clear as possible…if it’s yellow, you are not drinking enough water!  Hydration is just as important as good nutrition!  If you don’t want to carry so much water (it weighs 8 pounds/gallon or 1kg/L), bring a water treatment system.  Learn which one works best for you on Episode 3 of the Adventure Travel Show podcast.  Listen or download here (and see more info!), or on any podcast app. Backpacking Food Lucy says the time it’s most important to focus on nutrition is BEFORE your adventure.  But, you can be a little slack when you are on your adventure.  And sometimes “fluff” can even be helpful! It’s best to graze during the day to keep your energy up, even if it’s just a little.  For someone small like Lucy, a Fig Newton or something similar each hour of hiking works.  Someone larger might need a handful of nuts. ENERGY BARS Often not the best choice.  Try when possible to go with the whole food options like nuts, hard boiled eggs, cheese, etc.  But when you need a burst of energy, an RX Bar would be better for you than a Snickers Bar, but both would give you the necessary burst.  Lucy says that if you can recognize most of the ingredients, you are probably fine.  Nonetheless, the RX Bars are a better choice because they use ingredients you would put on your grocery list.  Best Camping and Backpacking Food Options Healthy backpacking food doesn’t have to weigh a ton.  Here are some of my favorite hiking foods.  Be sure to load up on hiking snacks as it’s best to graze throughout the day.  Your hiking meals can be easy AND nutritious if you choose from the list below.  Breakfast: Instant Oatmeal with nuts, dried fruit and cinnamon. Instant Mashed Potatoes with chunks of Beef Jerky Whole wheat tortilla with peanut butter and dried bananas It’s best to graze all day No crash snacks: Peatnut butter on whole wheat tortilla.  I like to also sprinkle it with raisins and roll it up.  Lasts for days without refrigeration and tastes like a PB&J treat! Honey or Oat Bran Sesame sticks (look for near the produce section).  Mix in some nuts for more fat and protein. Assortment of trail mix: some sweet and some salty so you don’t get tired of it. Dinner: Freeze dried meals are generally more nutritious than dehydrated meals (where the process can dignificantly reduce nutrients).  The freeze dried food retains nutrients but is expensive.  These meals are easy because all you do is add water.  Lucy’s fav is Mountain House Beef Stroganoff. If you want to make your own meals, a hiking buddy RAVES about the food in the cookbook, Lip Smacking Backpacking!  I’ve bought it but haven’t cooked anything from it yet. Other favorites include instant mashed potatoes, pasta and quick cook rice, stuffing mix.  I like the preseasoned pasta dishes and then add tuna or jerky for protein.  Soup mixes are also light yet tasty. For protein, hard cheeses can last a few days without refrigeration.  Hard meats like salami and pepperoni do not require refrigeration. Tuna in the foil packets, especially if packed in olive oil is tasty.  DON’T BRING CANS – too heavy!  The foil package doesn’t take up much room or weigh much in your trash zip bag. FRESH FOOD Alas, most fresh food does not travel well.  You are lucky to get a day out of it, and it is usually pretty heavy since much of it is made of water. If you do bring, say a banana or apple, PACK OUT the skin and core.  Even though it is biodegradable, animals will eat it and then can learn to associate humans with food.  BAD IDEA!  Leave no Trace includes everything! How Much Food to Bring?  The goal is to bring just slightly more than you’ll need.  Many people bring too much food, which means lugging around pounds of excess weight.  Rule of Thumb (adjust for your weight and how long you’ve been out):  1.5 -2.5 pounds of food per day.   GOAL:  Calorie dense food     Example: Let’s say an energy bar has 230 calories and weighs 65g, or 2.3 oz.  230/2.3 = a calorie density of 100.  Compare that to a piece of candy that has 360 calories and weighs 2.5 oz => 360/2.5 = 144.  This means the candy will give you more calories for the weight you are carrying.  So if you are doing a LONG day’s adventure, even though you want to eat nutritiously pre-adventure, for today, you might choose the candy.  For contrast, let’s look at carrots which have  about 40 calories per 100 g, or 3.5 oz.  40/3.5 =11.4 calorie density.  WAY more nutritious, but you’d have to eat almost 13 carrots to get the same calories at the piece of candy (and carry WAY more weight!!!).  Plus, who wants to eat 13 carrots at a time?  If you are just beginning your adventure, you don’t need quite as much as these figures, I’ve discovered the hard, heavy way.  I find it takes several days for my body to become a calorie craving machine! Calorie Rule of Thumb:  Shoot for 120-130 calories/oz Naughty Food Company Tricks Enriched:  They’ve taken out the whole grain goodness and replaced it with refined flour and some vitamins.  Go for the whole grains instead. Natural:  This term really means nothing when it comes to food labeling.  Ignore it. Multi-Grain:  Just because it’s multi-grain doesn’t mean it’s WHOLE grains (see enriched above). Cholesterol or Gluten-Free:  You’ll see this often on packages that NEVER had cholesterol or gluten to begin with.  The company is just trying to ride a trend.  You’ll see this trend bandwagon also with the word “protein”. “Protein”  is sometimes soy protein isolate, which while a protein, not something you’d put on your grocery list.  Lucy encourages us to buy foods that have ingredients we recognize and would put on our grocery list. Reach out to Lucy for:  Nutritional Education Wellness Coaching Learn Intuitive and Mindful Eating Get Lucy’s helpful FREE Newsletter packed with recipes, motivation and ideas! Apply for a FREE coaching Call! Snicker Trifle Thanks to the MSR Summit Register for the recipe!  Check out this link for more of their great backpacking recipes! Ingredients: ¼ Jell-O Chocolate Fudge Pudding 3 tbsp. Powdered Milk 1 tbsp. Powdered Butter ¼ cup Caramel Bits 3 tbsp. Kraft Jet-Puffed Marshmallow Bits 2 tbsp. chopped roasted and salted peanuts Frontcountry (before you head out): Add all ingredients to a Ziploc bag and mix to incorporate. On the trail: When you arrive at camp, add ¾ cup cold water to the dried mixture. Stir thoroughly to incorporate. Seal the bag. By the time you’ve finished setting up camp for the night, the trifle will have set and will be ready to eat. Enjoy! Jason Koop’s Secret Rice Ball Recipe Jason Koop trains and coaches athletes.  This is the rice ball recipe Lucy recommended.  Learn more about Jason and his coaching here. Sweet and Salty Rice Balls Makes about 12 rice balls. 2 Eggs 1 1/2 Cups Uncooked Basmati Rice 2 Tbsp. Honey 1 Tbsp. Soy Sauce Instructions: Cook the rice. Scramble and cook the eggs. Combine rice, eggs, honey, and soy sauce in a larger mixing bowl. Scoop small portions into sandwich bags and tie the ends off. Per Ball: Calories 115 // Carbohydrate 20 g // Protein 2 g // Sodium 327 mg [blog_promo promo_categories=”camp” ids=”” /] Bacon and Egg Rice Balls Makes about 12 rice balls. 2 Eggs 2 Strips Bacon 1 1/2 Cups Uncooked Basmati Rice 2 oz. Grated Parmesan Cheese Salt to Taste Instructions: Cook the rice. Scramble and cook the eggs. Cook the bacon. Drain excess fat and chop. Combine rice, eggs, bacon, cheese, and salt in a larger mixing bowl. Scoop small portions into sandwich bags and tie the ends off. Per Ball: Calories 133 // Carbohydrate 18 g // Protein 4 g // Fat 5 g // Sodium 327 mg   The links on this site may contain affiliate links which means I may earn a small commission if you use them.  I encourage you to use them if you are going to buy the item anyway because at no additional cost to you, you are supporting and helping to defray the cost of this podcast.  Many thanks!   Lucy’s Well Balanced Workbook TGIM Check out Lucy’s 52 week workbook to help you get on track.  It’s only $1.99! Complete Transcription Note:  This transcription is 'machine' transcribed so there is bound to be boo boo's.  However, it will give you a general idea and time stamp of when who said what:)   Kit: (00:00) To pack or not to pack, to eat or not to eat and what to eat. That is the question. That is the adventures dilemma. Eat impact the food fuel you'll need to successfully complete your adventure while minimizing pack weight, learn tips and rules of thumb of what food to pack on your next adventure. I'm also learned when it's a great idea to eat candy corn, all this and more coming up next, welcome to the venture travel show podcast. I'm your host kit parks. Whether you're backpacking, day packing, bike packing, or even paddling space and or weight is always the issue and making sure that you have the energy that you need to complete your adventure is obviously super important as well. You sure don't want to bunk out or hit a wall before you've gotten to the end point of the day. And like I said, it's the conundrum. Kit: (01:01) How do we balance weight, space, and fuel? And by fuel I mean food fuel. So I've asked one of my hiking buddies, Lucy, who knows all about this stuff to join us on the program today. Our guest today is Lucy Hayhurst. Lucy studied nutrition and dietetics at the University of Dayton and completed her dietetic internship at West Virginia University hospitals. After becoming a registered dietician, she moved to Durham, North Carolina and started well balanced nutrition with her. Over 10 years of Practicing Nutrition and Wellness coaching, Lucy offers a unique perspective. Come to the table as an expert in behavior change. She helps take what you'd know and turn it into lifestyle habits. Lucy combines her enthusiasm for fitness and playing in nature with her love for nutritious food and the result is a fun, interactive adventure for her clients. Lucy can light up a room and inspire a crowd in addition to individual counseling. Kit: (01:55) She's also an author and motivational speaker before it gets started to all the information that we talk about today. Plus a lot more of more technical information is on the website, adventure, travel show, podcasts. Slash. Nutrition. I've got tons more tips, ideas, and some recipes and link to even more recipes so you keep your energy levels up high for your entire adventure. So let's get started with Lucy. So Lucy, I first met you when we were at us. In the same hiking club in Raleigh and we've actually been backpacking together. How did you get involved in all this outdoor adventure activity? Lucy: (02:33) Well, I started playing outside when I moved to North Carolina back in 2009 and I didn't have a job. I didn't have a lot of money and I realized that you could hike all day and it costs almost nothing. So that really got me into the woods. And then it was when I met my ex who introduced me to a lot more adventure and we met Whitewater rafting in West Virginia. Kit: (02:59) That's another thing I love to do as well. In fact, I'm going to be going on my very first long rafting trip for a whole week out in Idaho this summer. So I'm really excited about that. Lucy: (03:07) I'm excited to hear about it. Kit: (03:10) Today we're going to be talking about your nutritionist and we're going to talk about getting healthier or doing healthy things for our bodies home, doing some of these adventures. Cause a lot of times we tend to just grab the convenient junk food, whatnot. But you've got some better ideas for us and about things that we should be doing both before our adventure in preparation. And also once you're on the trip. So how important is it for us to have the proper nutrition before we go on some of these adventures? Lucy: (03:37) You know, I love this question because part of the reason I go backpacking is so that I can eat candy, corn and peanuts, which is one of my favorite trail mixes and nobody would really qualify that as a health food. But as you know, and everybody out there that's done those kinds of backpacking adventures, there's a lot of calories that you're burning. And so every now and then having a little bit of what we call fluff, like candy corn is okay, it's not going to kill us. But what I talk about with people, especially those getting ready for something that's rigorous, whether it's a race or an a travel adventure that we really want to focus on fueling our bodies. So do you think about this concept of food is fuel or fluff? Oftentimes people are labeling food is good and bad and I can tell you that doesn't really help them out much because then they just get in this spiral of, oh I was bad today. And they just continue to make less healthy choices versus saying, oh, I've eaten good fuel for my body and now I've got a little bit of room left. Let me enjoy a little, you know, potato chips or a few candy corns or whatever it might be. Kit: (05:00) When we go out there, one of the considerations for a lot of us, whether we're backpacking or bike packing or even rafting for that matter, weight is an issue and a lot of the junky food tends to be lighter weight. What's she, what kinds of things should we be thinking about? Cause we've got to balance the weight with the nutrition with also taste. And so how, what's our thought process or how do we go about figuring out what we want to do? Lucy: (05:24) So I think that this is a bit of two conversations, so I'm curious, should we start with the before the trip or do you want to dive right in? Sure. Okay. Kit: (05:35) But before the trip, how do we get our bodies prepared as far as nutrition goes Lucy: (05:40) when we're preparing. Then anytime that you're in that kind of training mode, I got to listen to the podcast where you were talking with the trainer and I really enjoyed that because it's that reminder that we probably shouldn't expect our bodies to just go out and hike up the mountain without having any preparation, especially if you're carrying weight and that's where training your body as well as training what fuel you're going to use while you're out there. Super important. So before you go, it's really a matter of finding the right foods in balance. We had talked a little bit before about should I eat three meals a day or should I snack throughout the day and on this journey, whatever adventure you're going on. But specifically on the journey of life, your body is unique to you and the best part of the journey is learning what is gonna work best for you. Lucy: (06:38) So there might be a little bit of playing around with that as you get ready for your travel adventure and knowing that. All right, let me put this to the test because if you go out into the wilderness and you've packed nothing but rice and beans, but you haven't really eaten any rice and beans, but you are deciding like, oh, I'm going to be healthy while I'm in the woods, you might end up really regretting that with some gastrointestinal pain or just other yuckiness. My, uh, my husband was in his sleeping bag after a particularly fibrous dinner and he had bought one of those, what are they called? The sock things that you can fit your whole body into. It's like a giant sheet. Anyway, he was worried that that little bag was going to become a, a giant poop. So gotta be careful, try out your fruits. Kit: (07:37) Is there a different mix of, of the fats, proteins, and carbs that we need to think about before because assuming that we're going to be extending more energy than normal, is there a certain components we have to think about ahead of time? And then let's talk too about once we're out there too. So still in the pre training mode are the things that we need to get our body used to because it could be using more of that once we're out on our activity. Lucy: (08:01) Yes. Yeah, and it's going to be activity dependent, but a lot of times, especially this day and age where carbs are still considered evil, then people really underestimate how many carbohydrates they are burning out on the trails. So being sure that you do have sufficient what we call the simple as well as complex carbs Kit: (08:25) and tell us the difference between complex and simple carbs. Lucy: (08:28) So the difference between simple and complex is sometimes easy, right? If you look at a piece of white bread, most of the buns you find at restaurants, so on and so forth, that's going to be simple carbs. That means they go into your body, they break down pretty quickly, turn to sugar, which turns to energy. So these are great when you're doing those activities and your body just needs that energy available. But we also want to make sure that we combine include plenty of complex carbs. So that's going to be the more brown foods, right? So the whole grains, the sweet potatoes, Keene, Wa, butternut squash, so on and so forth. Kit: (09:12) So on our adventure, there's a place for both of them. Exactly when we're out there, we actually want some of the, when I call the white things versus the brown things. I spend my days at home trying to avoid all those white things. Ha ha ha. That's half the reason I go backpacking. So it looks like we want the whites or the simple carbs when we're about to do a major center, something that we need a lot of energy quickly. How about fats? Fats, ah, Lucy: (09:41) let's say it together. Fat is our friend. Ooh, I like the way you speak. Tell us why that is our friend. That is, first of all, it's what makes the food tasty so we can't forget that fat is really important for helping us absorb the vitamins and minerals that are fat soluble and it's also there to keep us full longer. If you think about those little Debbies, then those are pretty high in sugar. I don't know about the fat content or protein for that matter, but the fat and protein are especially important for keeping us going longer. Kit: (10:23) Does it make a difference which kind of fat? Lucy: (10:25) Oh yeah, but that would be a whole episode all in itself. Kit: (10:29) How about a couple of rules of thumb instead? Lucy: (10:32) Yes. If you look at it and you can identify the original source of where it came from, then that's a pretty good indicator that it's a good fat. So you think about your nuts that you put in your trail mix. That's great. Think about the coconut oil that you use to make the granola. That's wonderful. Thinking about Avocados, not that everybody's bringing those on the trail, but I did do that in my last backpacking adventure. Thinking about nut butters and these kinds of healthy fats are going to be better fuel. Kit: (11:06) At the end of the interview I'll have some more details about what she's talking about here as well as on the website, adventure, travel show, podcast. Slash. Nutrition. What about meat? Fats like beef, fat. That's something we can pronounce and we can see where it came from. Lucy: (11:21) Yes. Uh, coming from my perspective, I always encourage more happy, healthy meat. So things that are grass fed, organically raised, those are going to be a better option. Kit: (11:33) And then how about salt when we're out there too, cause we're perspiring so much. Is Salt something we need to be paying attention to? Lucy: (11:41) Certainly. And it's going to be there whether or not you try to add it. For most of us, so anytime you're eating anything out of a crinkly, there's typically going to be sodium included. When this becomes really important for our profuse of sweaters, especially those that have discovered that white rain around their hats or maybe around their t-shirts. If you're seeing that, that's a pretty good indicator that you are a salty sweater, which means it might be a little extra important for you to intentionally add salt, whether that's doing the salt tabs for people that are really into more of the endurance longterm kind of activities. Those might come in and, or I'm a big advocate of hot sauce because it's tasty and salty. Kit: (12:37) I love that tip. That's a great tip. Well, it appears I'm one of those salty sweaters. I just thought that was dirt or sunscreen or something. I never really made that connection. I didn't know I was leeching out my salt at those electrolytes. So it's not just about the salt. Lucy: (12:52) People put a lot of emphasis on salt, but we can't forget magnesium, potassium and the other electrolytes are also important to Kit: (13:00) replenish. If I see those rings on my hat, does that tell me that I'm not drinking enough water? No. It means you're drinking lots of it Lucy: (13:07) water and your body's getting rid of it as it sees fit, um, to try and keep you cool. And some people found that there's a lot of benefit. They carry the little powders of different electrolyte enhancers. So you know, especially when you're on the trails, sometimes just drinking water all day it gets old. And at the end of the day having one of these little powders, there's one in particular called scratch that I've heard great things about. Uh, I haven't tried it yet myself, but it's a good electrolyte blend and it's a little flavorful. Kit: (13:41) All right, I'll have to put a link to that in the show notes and on the website. So let's talk about things that we can, again, we get back to, it's hard to, to carry things on the trail or in a backpack of, or our bike pack. We're bike packing. What are some nice healthy options of things that actually tastes good that we could be bringing with us? Such good questions. I subscribe to that Lucy: (14:04) the lighter is better and so I do partake in those frozen meals. Actually, I was on a backpacking trip with a friend of mine who knew I was a dietician and he was excited and he didn't say this ahead of time, but he was looking forward to traveling with the dietician to see what I ate, assuming it was going to just be the pinnacle of health and wellness, so he was really horrified when I pulled out my most favorite meal, which is the mountain house beef stroganoff to have for dinner that night because I don't subscribe to needing to focus on your health on the trail. That's something that you need to be doing off the trail, but there are ways to be healthier while you're out there without adding a lot of, for instance, I really love those little pouches of the fruit and Veggie blends just to give me a little like wink and a nudge at some nutrition. That's the colorful kinds of nutrition. They're not always the most lightweight, so some people also get into the freeze dried fruits or vegetables. I did start making some of my own backpacking meals, so I was able to sneak in a little bit more veggies with some freeze dried carrots, potatoes, celery and so forth. Kit: (15:24) One thing I learned in my research is that the freeze dried food is better for you than the dehydrated food because you lose some of the nutrients when they dehydrate it. But the freeze dried not so much and it has a significantly longer shelf life, sometimes up to 30 years. So what's the deal on when to eat? When we're out on our adventures? Do we graze all day long? Do we eat our three square or what? What's, what's the latest on that Lucy: (15:52) yet? That's a good question. I always encourage that you're doing a little bit throughout. So if you're doing something that's requiring a lot of energy, um, hiking, biking, paddling, whatever, then anything over an hour we recommend that you refuel with some sort of, typically some carb and depending how long you're going, maybe carb as well as protein. So I take marathon runners as an example because they've needed to get good at this running three and four hours where you don't necessarily feel hungry. I eat breakfast and I can go hike, you know, two or three hours and not really feel hunger, but my brain starts obsessive thinking of food and that's when I know, oh I guess my body's trying to tell me that I need a little bit more energy right now even though my mind is like I just ate. It's been two hours. Kit: (16:51) So are we talking a handful of trail mix or talk to us a little bit about portion size. Lucy: (16:56) That depends on your size. I'm not a particularly big person, so I'll have one fig Newton and that'll be fine for another hour. But for somebody that's bigger and or carrying more weight on their back or otherwise they are going to need more energy. So it's very, very body dependent. There's not a super secret magical formula. It's a matter of tuning in and listening to your body and if at the end of the day you feel like a bottomless pit and you just can't get full, then that's a good indicator that you didn't eat enough and you need to do a little bit more feeling throughout the day tomorrow. Kit: (17:33) Now let's talk about energy bars. I hear they're good. I hear they're bad to hear. They're full of sugar. I hear they're just wasted calories. So do you have any opinions on those? Lucy: (17:42) I do. So I was at a convenience store tour with a client of mine and we were at all the foods that they offer at at a normal gas station store and we got to the Plethora of energy bars and he's not going on the trail. He's good about to get on an airplane. So he's like, which one is the best one? And I had to be honest with him for that scenario, when you have apples and are boiled eggs or yogurt without a lot of sugar or nuts, when you have other whole food options, I'm always going to encourage you to eat that first. When you're eating a bar, they've taken whole foods and processed them into this, what they call a health food. But if that was really true, then that wouldn't be able to live on the shelf in your cupboard for a months or years at a time. So when you're on the trail, I think that there's plenty of good options because sometimes you just need energy. So it's not about being perfect picture of health, it's about being fueled for what you're doing. So I would say, yeah, I'd rather you choose an rx bar versus a snickers bar because our x bar is going to be a little bit better balanced energy. Kit: (19:06) So if we're trying to be healthy and we're looking at these bars, are there any rules of thumb or any advice of this many grams of sugar is good or bad or tall? Talk a little bit about that. Lucy: (19:17) Yes. Yes. When health is your, would your motivator, I mean, what's you're going for? I skipped the nutrition facts numbers because it's not, it's a jumble and I'd rather you just go straight to the ingredients list. Um, I mentioned the rx bars because when you go the ingredients list, you'll see it's nuts. It's egg whites that they've powdered and it's dates or some other dried fruit. It's whole real foods. I don't know. I don't necessarily want to pick on the ones that I don't agree with. I just always encourage people to look at the ingredients and if you can recognize most or all of the ingredients is things that you would put on your very own grocery shopping list. Then choose that. If you can't pronounce it and you don't know where you would find Gargamel and so lasts of then then that might be something that you can put back on the shelf Kit: (20:16) at home. I try not to buy things that come in boxes or bags and kind of use as my rule of thumb to keep away from the processed foods array. The way I understand it, they're removing a lot of the nutrients when they do a lot of the processing. So can you talk to us a little bit about what is processed food? Lucy: (20:34) Well, if you are going to the grocery store, 99% of the food that you're buying is processed, processed simply means that somebody else came in and has prepared this for you in some way. So if you look at, we'll go to the produce section, kind of visualize that. You can see there's whole carrots and then you can see those carrot chips or those baby carrots. Those baby carrots are processed. That's just big carrots. What they've dwindled down into a little baby size, bite size. So, and that's in a bag, but then you get into the what's actually in this. So we're now in the aisle and we're talking about Ritz crackers. Then that's where it's like, okay, that's processed in a way that there's, when you look at that label, it's enriched wheat flour and that word enriched. That means that they've taken the whole grain, they've stripped all the nutrients out of it, and now it's just white flour. Kit: (21:41) And so if I understand it right, I think they strip out the, the whole grains are what we consider the goodness of it. And then they quote unquote enrich it by adding some vitamins back to it. Lucy: (21:51) Exactly. Yeah. It's a, it's very much like that, so it's back to the ingredients list. When you look at that bag of baby carrots, it still just says carrots. So even though it's processed, it's still a good choice. But then if you look at the laundry list of ingredients on cereals and other types of foods and bags and boxes, then that's when we know it's probably better just to make a different choice. Kit: (22:17) So they trick us with the word enrich, trying to make us think that that's good for us. They also trick us with the word natural, which I believe does even have an official definition, so you can pretty much use that however you'd like. Any other words? They trick us with multi-grain. Oh boy. Tell us why. Lucy: (22:37) Yeah, often they, they want you to think that you're being virtuous because it's multi-grain, but that doesn't actually mean that it's a whole grain. It just means they put a bunch of different grains into that particular food. Kit: (22:51) Okay. I've fallen for that one. Any other ones you can think of that's a good one. Lucy: (22:56) Cholesterol three your pretzels were always cholesterol free. They just decided to put that on the label because they can, Kit: (23:05) I often see packages touted gluten free. Gluten free. Exactly. They'll put on packages of things that never had any wheat in them. Exactly. But they're just trying to sell something and yeah, they're riding a trend. Lucy: (23:20) [inaudible] and so, well we see that a lot with protein. Now. I've been hearing a lot of my clients are choosing special k protein blend and so I finally looked at the label this week and they add soy protein isolate, which I'm not saying that's not real food, but it's not necessarily something you're going to put on your grocery list again. So I'd rather you eat a hard boiled egg with a bowl of oatmeal or something. Whole grain, like whole grain toast from bakery. Okay. Kit: (23:56) What other advice would you give us? Uh, things that we can think about or bring with us when we go out on the trailer or bike pack or wherever it is that we're going. Lucy: (24:04) The travel food is, I've just learned about a really wonderful resource. I'm going to have to send it to you cause I can't think off the top of my head what it's called. But for the cyclists of the world, there's something called these rice balls or, or rice bars and you can make them sweet or savory. So for people that are just feeling a little inundated with all this sweet that's jammed packed on the, you know, in the bars and so on. These rice balls basically make rice and then you put a layer of maybe it's barbecue meat or maybe it's um, cinnamon apples or blueberries or whatever. And then you do another layer of rice and you make it so that at this own little energy bar that you can wrap up in foil and it's really easy to, to eat while you're out on, out on the trails. Kit: (25:02) Are these rice balls good for multiple days or is it something you have to eat within a couple of hours? Lucy: (25:08) Oh, it's good for multi multiple days. Well, it's not something I'd keep on me for over a week, but if you're out there for a couple days and then it's going to be all right. Kit: (25:21) Okay. Yeah. I'm always afraid about things going bad on me. So a big fan of I'm at, one thing I like to do is take a tortilla and spreads and peanut butter on it and put some raisins on it and roll that up. And that's delicious. That's a great one. I don't, I only eat it when I'm camping, but it's actually pretty darn good. Any other favorite things that you'd like to bring on that would fall in the nutritious side that are also good to bring out? Lucy: (25:46) Yeah, I really like the Sandwich thins. Uh, so, um, do a veggie patty, like some sort of, um, Morningstar, whatever vegetable tatty that I can heat up and then toast the sandwich then. And I'll do that and I'll bring those little packets of mayonnaise and mustard with me and I'll have a delicious little Kit: (26:09) fake hamburger on the trail. Any of the things that you want to tell us about things that we should be thinking about for nutrition and keeping ourselves in balance while we're getting ready to do our adventures or out on our adventures. I always just Lucy: (26:23) remind people that your body's telling you things all day, every day and the key is learning to tune in, so on this journey, a whatever next adventure you're preparing for while you're training or while you're getting ready for the adventure. Start Tuning in and noticing when can I tell I'm hungry after an adventure and how do I know when I've had enough and what are the best snacks that are going to not give me, you know, blow to, or yeah, I can just give me enough fuel to keep going. Kit: (27:00) That sounds like something we should be doing everyday anyway, just to see how the different foods make our bodies feel. Yes, ma'am. Just being a little bit more mindful afterwards. We know we're supposed to be mindful while we're eating, but not always doing that, but I probably don't think afterwards, Oh, do you know they didn't really sit that well with me or that did great and feel wonderful. Lucy: (27:19) [inaudible] exactly. Kit: (27:22) So good. Now listen, I understand that you finally wrote the book. You told me you were going to write it. Why don't you tell me about that? Lucy: (27:28) I did a, well it's called T. G. I m, start happy, stay healthy and it's a workbook that you could, it's designed to be a once one entry per week, so 52 weeks, but you could also read the book front to back in about an hour if you want to. And it's the idea that when we start with the idea of loving this journey of being our happy, happiest, and healthiest selves, start happy, stay healthy. If you come to it with the approach of I'm going to learn to enjoy this journey, then it goes a lot better than when we're punishing ourselves and dieting and restricting. And so the, each of the entries just offers a different tip and tool of how to treat yourself well on the journey of life. Kit: (28:25) Can you share one of the tips that are in the book? Lucy: (28:27) Certainly. All right, so one of my favorite entries for this upcoming travels spring in summer and fall season, it's staying well balanced through summer vacations and I provide five different tips for how to enjoy your vacation without feeling like he's completely run yourself off the road of healthy and happy and it includes certain tips. Obviously if it's a travel adventure then you're already going to be physically active hopefully. And then it just talks about being careful about what we're drinking, how many calories we're taking in that way. Also just the importance of fiber because you like to keep things moving while you're traveling. At least I know I do. Kit: (29:14) Well, I'll put a link to in the show notes for your book. Um, is that available everywhere or how, how do people find it? Lucy: (29:21) It's on Amazon. Kit: (29:24) Don Amazon. Okay. I'll put an Amazon link into the show notes and on the website and then also tell us a little bit about your, your coaching and your well balanced nutrition business. Lucy: (29:35) I be going to, well balanced nutrition. It's, you know, how you go on Google or any website and find, there's just 14,000 different new diet and lifestyle recommendations, right? It's like, I don't know, should I be Vegan? Should I go Paleo? Should I whatever it, there's so many options and it's very confusing. And what we do as nutrition wellness experts is we take a lot of what you already know and help you make it become your lifestyle. So we're talking about behavior change and longterm goal achievement instead of those chronic fad diets. Kit: (30:22) Can you share a success story about one of your clients? Lucy: (30:25) Oh my gosh, yes, please. I have one that she was, or she is an avid hiker, loves to go stomp in the woods as she says. And she broke her ankle unfortunately while hiking twice, um, in the last two years. And the last one really got her down and out. I'm needless to say, she, when she was out of commission from hiking, she got a little depressed. So we've met in November of last year in 2018 and she recognized that there was some emotional eating going on in the evenings. So that was really the first thing that we tackled. And she developed some other tools and coping mechanisms where she was no longer relying on the food at night. And then in January she got some blood results from the doctor that she did not like. So she was very motivated to address some of her other eating habits. And together with, we have an online tracking tool, so of course an app where we're able to stay in touch with our clients in between appointments and we are able to watch what you're eating, give some guidance and feedback to help you make those really healthy, well balanced choices. And she's now lost about 27 pounds and is hiking at least three or four miles almost every day. Kit: (31:44) Hey, good for her. Now Lucy, can people do this online with you or do they have to live in the triangle area of North Carolina? Lucy: (31:51) It depends, um, on your preference. We do have virtual sessions available. Insurance covers our services if you're in the area, we're in south Durham. Kit: (32:04) Oh good, good. I'll make sure I'll put links to everything in the show notes in the website so that people will be able to find you and Lucy, it's been great talking to you. It's been so long. I'm so glad to hear about you and your business and I remember you saying on our backpacking trip that you wanted to do that new, you went out and you actually did it and you've been doing it now for over five years. It's wonderful. Lucy: (32:24) Yes. Thank you so much. You were very helpful on the journey and I'm so grateful. Kit: (32:30) I've got a few more of the nitty gritty details of some of the things that we need to think about when we're thinking about our nutrition both before and during our one, whatever our adventure might be. And I'll put all these in, like I said, the show notes and the website. However, I will also have a downloadable pdf that you can either download or it'll come automatically with the monthly newsletter next month that'll have some of the key figures that you need to know to kind of get an idea of what you need to do and bring. So it'll all be in on a single piece of paper. Make it nice and easy. So anyway, a couple of takeaways and a couple of things that we need to add to Lucy's and my discussion. I love how she said think of food as fuel or fluff. Kit: (33:10) And the important takeaway that we've got from today is obviously we all know we should be fueling our body with nutritious foods. However, the fluff comes in handy. Let's say you're about to do a major ascent or there's something you're about to do. This going to take a whole lot of energy. The fluff is what's going to get you that energy quickly because it breaks down so quickly. So that's when you want Lucy's case, the candy corn or for me a snickers bar or something like that, that if you just need that little burst of energy, that's when you use the simple carbohydrates, the complex carbs, keep your energy at a good level all the time. And talking about energy, where does it come from? There's an important thing I learned about [inaudible], I'm probably saying this wrong glycogen and this is your stored energy, your stored carbs. The body can only store so much about 500 calories worth in your liver and anywhere, depending on your body, 500 to 2000 calories in your muscles. So these are our gas tanks. We have to keep refilling. If you're doing something with high intensity, you've got to keep that constantly replenished. So that means adding 15 to 30 grams early to top of our tanks. Kit: (34:22) And also I read too that if you're, let's say you're doing a long distance hike or you're really, really pushing yourself on whatever it is that you're doing. And most examples that I read about it would be like long distance hiking where every day you're getting up in, you're hiking, you know, anywhere between 10 and 30 miles a day, whatever the case may be, they encourage you to eat your last meal like 30 minutes before bed so that during the night your body stores that glycogen so you're ready to go the next day. When you don't get the proper nutrients and you don't replenish your body, not only are you losing the energy stores, but you might also be missing out on some of the micronutrients and some of the negative effects of those. If you're not getting enough vitamin C, that's going to depress your immunity and also can cause some damage to connective tissues, which is super important. Kit: (35:08) When you're doing something with your muscles in your body, that's really important, so you've got to figure out some way to add some vitamin C to your date. A lack of vitamin C can also exacerbate some aching swollen muscles. If you're not getting enough vitamin B's at the B vitamins, that's going to really affect your energy and your and your metabolism. I'll also affect your nervous system. If you don't get enough vitamin B, you might become sluggish, you might make some bad decisions, your brain's going to be a little foggy, so super important as well, and you need to try to get some calcium in there somewhere too because that can create some cramps. And so when did you get all cramped up in hiking, you're probably not getting enough calcium, particularly for women. You want to make sure you're getting enough iron and a good source of that could be some dehydrated Kale. He probably didn't get a taste it just mix it in with something else. Kit: (35:58) Your backpack food tends to be a little bit bland, so I'd also recommend bringing an assortment of spices, particularly the hotter ones, like the red pepper flakes, chili powders, et cetera. Lucy recommends bringing the hot sauce. It a lot of times you get the little condiments from the packets and I also like to say the condiments like the Manet's a mustard, they're great for travel. Changing up your spices can make the same foods taste different every night, which will help a little bit. To give you a little bit of variety at little pack weight, I want to talk about different meal ideas like breakfast, one of my favorites, and it's kind of counterintuitive, but I like something warm in the morning, particularly if it's a little chilly in the morning. I liked instant mashed potatoes with beef jerky chunks in it. It gave me some protein, it was warm, it was filling, it was easy and fast. So that's one of my go to favorites of course, oatmeal. And if you could add some nuts in that and some dried fruits that makes that quite tasted, it brings some cinnamon. Kit: (36:58) One of my favorite lunch things, as I mentioned earlier, is taken a whole wheat Tortilla, slathering it with peanut butter and then sprinkling with raisins and rolling that up. It lasts a long time. So you can carry that with you for several days, not worrying about refrigeration and it's tasty. Filling full of good proteins and good snacks that you can bring nuts. Of course they're, they're calorie dense and they've got the good fats in them so, and the protein. So that's, that's an excellent source. Also hard cheeses, you can bring hard cheeses and they will last a few days for that. Refrigeration, none in the soft ones, but the hard ones. Also hard meats like Salamis and pepperoni's don't need refrigeration as well. That's great to get some extra protein dinners. The packaged meals were usually my go to and now after what I've learned from Lucy and in my research, I'm going to stick just with the freeze dried versus the dehydrated because of the better quality of the food with it. Kit: (37:54) The nutrients are preserved better. Yes, but they're expensive if you don't want to spend the money. I met a man when I was hiking up in my hiking robe up in Raleigh and he said he had to deal with his backpacking buddy. He had to carry the kitchen and the food in exchange for the buddy making and preparing all the food and the buddy used a cookbook called lip smack and backpacking and he said everything that the guy made was delicious. So I'll put a link to that too on the website and in the show notes. [inaudible] Kit: (38:26) good source of carbs are those little honey sesame sticks you can buy and I like these little upbrand sticks that I get over it and like the near the vegetable area I throw myself, but they're also greatest snacking foods. It's a good idea to bring a little bit of a small container of olive oil or canola oil to add a little bit more fat to your dinners as well. Some of my favorite protein sources are of course beef jerky, beans, nuts, seeds, powdered milk, powdered soy protein plus you get some calcium with these last two. I like the tuna that comes in the foil packets and then if you get some of the oil, if you get it in the olive oil, that's going to add a little bit more fat to it. And again, like I used those little convenient store Manet's is that don't need to be refrigerated so I can make like a tuna salad in the pouch and speak in the pouches. Kit: (39:15) Please do practice the leave. No trace. You pack out all of your garbage. That includes your toilet paper. I usually keep a big Ziploc bag and I labeled trash. I don't get it confused and everything goes in there and don't forget to drink plenty of water. Hydration is super important. If possible, use one of those bladders that so that you have constant access. You'll tend to drink more if it's there and you don't have to drop your pack or get somebody to grab your bottle for you. You can learn more about your water options and what a treatment options. On episode number three of this podcast, the adventure travel show podcast, I'll also put a link to that in the show notes, and a good rule of thumb is if your urine is yellow, you're not drinking enough. It should be close to clear and that tells you that your body is getting proper hydration and consider bringing some of the electrolytes because the sports drinks I keep reading are not really the best thing for you. Kit: (40:12) Some of them have too much sugar, some of them have too much salt. If you want to make your own mix, you can add some salt to water. When you're sweating and you're working out, you lose about a gram of salt per liter and when looking at the labels, as Lucy suggested, anything that says Syrup means sugar. The only good syrup's truly are the honey and maple syrup and try to get your sugar more from the fruits than from the processed sugars that they add in there. Remember, you don't have to memorize all this stuff. I've got it on the website for you. Adventure travel show, podcast.com/nutrition and there's also going to be a recipe for ace, a snickers trifle and links to some other recipes as well that you might find interesting. I hope you learned a lot from today's program and many thanks to Lucy for coming on the show to help us out. Be sure to subscribe if you haven't done so already, it's free and available on all podcast apps, including now Pandora, which we were selected to join. If you've enjoyed today's program, please share it with your adventurous friends. Word of mouth is the number one way that podcasts are found, and so you are instrumental in building this podcast. Thanks. I sure do appreciate it. I also really appreciate that you give your time to listen to this podcast. Thanks. Until next time, this is kit parks adventure on. Nutrition for Outdoor Adventures by Kit Parks is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License. Based on a work at http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com/outdoor-adventure-nutrition/. Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available at https://activetraveladventures.com/contact-us/.

 How To Get Cheap Flights : Episode 007 Subscribe to our MONTHLY newsletter to get a FREE download about How To Get Cheap Flights in an easy to use cheat sheet.  Subscribe HERE - it's FREE!  I don't spam you or sell your info - promise!   ***Research Online Incognito*** Super important!!!  Always surf the web incognito when shopping so vendors don’t raise the price to you next time you visit.  Going dark means your cookies are reset each time you open a private window.  Cookies are used to track your browsing behavior online and often companies will raise the price as they see you continue to show interest in a product, in this case a flight.  This is the single most important thing to do to get a cheap flight ticket!   To go ‘dark’ and research in “Private Mode”, do the following depending on your browser (The web address bar will actually turn black so you know you’ve done it correctly): Command on Mac or Control on PC = C   Google Chrome or Safari:  C+ Shift + N Mozilla Firefox or Internet Explorer:  C + Shift + P Alternately, on top menu bar, click “File” > “New Incognito window” (or) “Private Browsing Window”   Do General Basic Research with Flight Aggregators Aggregators scour the web for available flights so can help you score a cheap airfare.  Different aggregators allow you some flexibility in checking to see when the best time is to fly to your destination.  Many allow a matrix so you can see prices over the entire month to determine the best “Days of the Week” to travel to your destination and also the best time of the month to travel.  Make notes on what is a low cost flight, the best days of the week to get there and the best time of the month.  These aggregators make it super easy to compare flight prices! Kiwi   Google Flights Kayak SkyScanner Secret Flying Airfare Watchdog   Google:  The Airport you want to go to + Wiki: Click on the link and make note of other area airports:  Example “Paris airport wiki”. Charles De Gaulle (CDG) appears.  You also see that “Orly” is a regional airport, where you might get a budget airline flight to. Then scroll down to the bottom of the page to see which airlines service this airport and LOOK FOR BUDGET AIRLINES that may not appear on the aggregator sites (example:  Southwest Air). This will give you an idea of popular routes, which are more competitive and therefore most likely to offer the lowest airfare. Make notes of the best airports to fly into your destination and the budget airlines that service it (also check any regional airports the same way).   Determine YOUR “Best” Airports: After poking around the aggregator sites, using all of the flexibility functions, determine your best airports to concentrate on: Best Regional Airport:  What are the biggest airports near me that I can get to in a few hours?  For me it would be Raleigh or Charlotte. Look at the budget airlines on the Airport wiki for the airport near you to see what major airport you can get to cheaply to determine your Best Major Airport for your upcoming destination. Best Major City Airport:  is there a budget airline that services it from an airport near you going in the direction you want to head?  For me, it would be Boston, NY and DC (even though I live in NC) if I want to get across the Atlantic, or Fort Lauderdale if I want to go to Central or South America.   Your Regional Airport:  It never hurts to check the price of your small local airport.  There is a chance that once you discount the aggravation, drive time to a major airport and the accompanying costs of parking, possible hotel and meals if you have to go a day early, etc. that the extra expense would be worth it).  I can only get to Atlanta or Charlotte from my local airport. Discount Airlines Caveat: You need to consider the TOTAL cost of your trip (and add in aggravation and time if the airport is a LONG way from where you need to go (use the free Rome2Rio app to help determine time and cost).  Sometimes budget airlines airports are NOT the airport you think you are going to, so CHECK before you buy (I once bought a ticket that lured me in, thinking I was flying out of DC, but it turns out is was Baltimore, which meant a train and more time)! Read the FINE PRINT on discount airline tickets:  You will often get charged extra for: Baggage - Food & Drink - Printing Tickets - Etc Baggage is especially tricky.  Some allow ONE item in carryon meaning your purse, for example must fit in your carryon.  They also weigh and measure and are strict! BUY any baggage allowances online before you get to the airport or they will really charge heavily for it when you get there.   Best Times to Buy a Ticket: Domestic: I choose about 2 months.  Rule of thumb is 1- 3 months ahead of time International:  I choose about 3 months.  Rule of thumb is 2 - 8 months. Exceptions:  If you are travelling for a busy holiday, there will be little discounting (although sometimes you can travel cheaply if you fly on the actual holiday, like Christmas).  You usually need to book these tickets really far in advance to make sure you can get a ticket. If you have total flexibility in your travel dates, you can sometimes score a really cheap last minute ticket, but this is becoming less common as the airlines are getting better at predicting need (when’s the last time you were on an empty flight?).   Set up Price Alerts: Each of the aggregators will encourage you, usually through a pop up window, to sign up for airfare alerts.  When you have plenty of time to buy (see guidelines above), set up alerts for your best airports determined above.  I also set up a general alert for my main local airport (RDU) so I can scan deals when I’m not even in the market.   Sign Up for the Secret Flying Newsletter With Secret Flying you will get a daily digest of great deals from everywhere, so when you see a great deal from your Best Airport research, you can pounce.  It also lists error fares (when an airline accidentally posts a boo boo, like $177 instead of $777), and if you are lucky, you can snag a super cheap ticket until the airline corrects the error.   Consider “Flipping” Your Trip and Find the Flight Deal Before You Book Your Adventure Use the map feature on the aggregators to look for deals. Sign up for daily Secret Flying email to get news of new deals and error fares (when a price error is ridiculously low - the airline will honor until they correct the boo boo). First fInd a great airfare, then head to the Active Travel Adventures website and use the search bar to find a cool adventure. Search by:   Activity - Time of Year - Budget - Who the trip is best for  - Location - Accommodations Example:  France + October   Cross the Ocean Cheaply Look for a cheap flight to get across the ocean from your country.  You can usually get to the connecting airline using a budget airline.  Example: You want to go to Madrid but you see a great deal from Boston to Paris using the map feature of an aggregator.   You buy a cheap flight to Boston and a cheap flight to Paris (or using the Rome2Rio app see whether flying, bus or train is the best option for you).   Buying Your Own Connecting Flights You can save a lot of money by purchasing your own connecting flights.  But BE CAREFUL! If you don’t buy your tickets at the same time, then YOU are responsible if you miss your connection, even if through no fault of your own.   Options if you miss your connection and you booked the flights directly:   Book all at once through Kiwi and they will be responsible.   Your Travel Insurance Policy may cover the extra cost of a new ticket Make a mini vacation at the stopover and get there a day or two early   WARNING!   Let’s say you want to go to Minneapolis and you find a great deal on a flight to NYC that connects via Minneapolis.  Airlines consider this a no no if you book the round trip ticket and then get off the plane in Minneapolis. They will usually cancel your return flight and consider you a “No Show” leaving you stranded.  They refer to this as “Skiplagged”.   What if you want to do a Round Trip flight with different End and Start points? Some tours start and stop in different destinations.  You have two choices: Book an “Open Jaw” round trip ticket.  This does exactly what you want.  Let’s say your tour starts in Bangkok, but you end in Laos.  You can buy an open jaw round trip ticket that allows you to do this without returning to Bangkok.  However, consider this option: Check the Rome2Rio app to see what your options are to go from your tour end point back to Bangkok.  There is often an inexpensive puddle jumper or train that can save you a lot over the Open Jaw ticket.   Great FREE!  Travel Apps: Download these apps to get super easy and helpful recommendations on how to get from one place to the other.  My favorite is Rome2Rio as it covers the world. Omio is great for Europe, too.   These apps break down your travel options, from walking, bus, train, plane and taxi or shared ride. You can see the general price range and time it’ll take.  You can even directly book bus, plane and train tickets directly through the app! And it’s in English, so no need to decifor foreign schedules!   Using these FREE tech tools makes it super easy to get a cheap airfare without spending a whole lot of time!  Once you do a bit of preliminary research, you let the alerts passively keep you aware of flight price trends and deals, so you’ll know when it’s time to pounce and buy a cheap plane ticket.   Rome2Rio app       Omio app (formerly GoEuro)   Use Credit Card Promotions: I hate to even mention this, but it IS an easy way to score cheap flight tickets.  Please do not use unless you can pay off your balance EACH month and have great credit.  No good deal is worth going into debt for!   Credit Card companies are anxious for your business, figuring once you get used to them, you’ll stick around for them to make more money off of you.  To encourage you to sign up for their card, many offer Bonus Loyalty Points you can use towards travel. For example, the Chase Sapphire card is at the time of this writing, offering 60,000 miles if you get a new card (for $95/year) and spend $4000 in the first three months.  Those points are the equivalent of about $750 in travel. If you don’t want to pay the annual fee after the first year, you need to make a note of the anniversary so you can cancel the card before it renews!   Travel Hackers have encouraged this ‘join and dump’ program and the card companies are starting to decline those that do so.  Therefore I believe we are at the tail end of this deal.   Nonetheless, I have used it with much success (except for the one time I forgot to cancel one in time with a $195 fee - ouch!) and have racked up hundreds of thousands of miles.  I get a new card when I know I’ve got a big expense coming up (like insurance for my rentals) so I can meet the minimum purchase requirement with no problem.   Cheap international flights (and cheap domestic flights for that matter) can be relatively pain free if you use these cheap flight booking tips.  Let me know how you make out!   Check out Active Travel Adventures for destination ideas (listen to the podcast for destination ideas on any podcast app or by going directly to this link).   Also check the back catalog of the Adventure Travel Show podcast here!   © Active Travel Adventures  - All rights reserved  

What to Do If You Get Lost in the WoodsWhat to Do If You Get Lost in the Woods LINKS MENTIONED Backpack Emergency Kit   Hiker’s Guide to Portable Water Treatment Safety Tips for Hiking in Bear Country Active Travel Adventures podcast Many of you are familiar with the disappearance of Gerry Largay, trail name Inchworm.  In 2013, Gerry went missing near Stratton Maine on her thru hike of the Appalachian Trail.  After Maine’s most extensive search in their history, she was not found.  In fact, it wasn’t until more than two years later that a surveyor found her remains.  So while you may be familiar with the story as it made international news, you probably don’t know that Gerry was my friend and hiking buddy. Gerry stepped off the trail to go to the bathroom, and then got disoriented.  Once she found herself lost in the woods, she didn’t know what to do.  Today, if you’ll spare me a few minutes, I’ll teach you what you are supposed to do if YOU get lost in the woods.  This episode is in honor of my friend, Geradine Largay.  First try the STOP Method: “S”  Stay Put and Stay Calm : For a few minutes to give yourself time to catch your breath and and avoid getting further afield.  Take some deep breaths and calm yourself down, and try to relax your mind.  If you wander further in panic, it is only going to be harder for you to find you way back and for searchers to find you.  An exception is if you are in a dangerous area, then move to safer ground and then stay put.   “T” Think:  Now that you’ve got your breathing under control, think back on where you just were.  Try to recall what the trail looked like:  was it straight or did you make some turns.  Do you remember any streams, stand out features or people?  What direction were you heading in:  north, south, east or west.  Did you come to any decision points like a fork in the road?    “O” Observe: Can you figure out which way is North?  Assess your food and water situation:  how long will it last?  Are you able to see your footprints so that you can follow them back?  Are there any landmarks you can see?  Are there any clues that might help you find your way back from where you came?  How ling has it been since you know you were on the right path?  If you have a cell phone, see if your map app can give you an idea of which way you need to go.  Put your phone in airplane mode so you don’t use up your battery as quickly, especially if you are in a remote towerless area. “P” Plan: Now you need to be strategic and using whatever materials you have on hand like rocks and sticks.  Mark where you are now is a way that you can see from your height, such as breaking off a branch (tie it with survey tape - see list below).  Make it really obvious and easy to find again.  Let’s call that BASE.  If you are still on a trail, but you haven’t seen a blaze in awhile, you can backtrack until you find a blaze.  Make sure to make marks on/along the trail at any decision points like forks and bends. If that doesn’t work, go back to BASE and then fan out VERY CAREFULLY, marking your way, again with sticks, rocks, bent branches or survey tape, going from your Base, out and back like you are spokes on a wheel.  You can track your progress by seeing your notations on the trees and ground.  If the terrain is dangerous or you are injured, you are probably better off staying put. Hopefully, the STOP method will get you back to the trail, but if it doesn’t, here are some other options:  Stop and Listen (and Whistle):  Every once in a while, stop to see if you can hear any signs of people like traffic, church bells, a river.  This might give you more clues.  Blow your whistle every 10-15 minutes.  The universal sign of distress is three blasts. Follow the River:  If there is water closeby, follow the stream to a river to a town.  This has the added advantage that you will have a source of hydration.  Remember, you still need to make marks so that you can find your way back to BASE.  If you come to a treacherous area, don’t risk getting hurt.  Return to BASE.  Be careful around boggy areas as well.  If you are lost at night, remember that many animals come to the water at night, so stay at least 200’ away, especially if there are large mammals in your area. Seek Higher Ground:  Particularly if you are in the forest, you might have a better opportunity to see landmarks from a higher elevation.  You also might be able to use your compass and map to triangulate where you are and how to get to where you want to be.  There is also a better chance of getting cell service.  Again, make sure you can re-find BASE.  Open Clearing:  If none of the above works, try to find an open clearing so that you’ll be easier to spot from above.  Use a mirror to flag a pilot.  They can signal your location to authorities.  Also:Provided you can do so without expending all of your energy (if you are really hungry) make an SOS out of rocks or branches.  Your markings to re-find BASE can also help searchers find YOU. HOW TO TRIANGULATE YOUR LOCATION WITH YOUR COMPASS AND MAP Other Self Rescue Tips: Rest when you are tired.  You can make some really bad judgments if you continue on exhausted. Stay hydrated.  Hopefully you have packed a Lifestraw or portable water purifier, but if not, you can strain out debris using a bandana or your shirt.  You can live for weeks without eating but you can’t go for more than a few days without fluids.  It’s better to risk getting sick over dying. Don’t ignore the little problems:  Stop and treat hot spots, rest if you are ill; in other words don’t ignore what your body is telling you it need or your problems can go from little to large. If water is scarce, avoid the 10am-4pm hours and stay in the shade.  Hike at a pace where you don’t sweat from exertion.  Breathing through your nose helps you stay hydrated longer. WATER SOURCES: Listen for brooks and streamsCollect from indentations on rocksMelt snow before drinking - will make you too cold otherwiseListen for birds : they collect near water Battling the Weather :  If you follow ATA and ATSP advice, you never go into the woods without the things you might need to make it through the night.  Chances are you will be battling the heat or the cold or the rain.  Avoid any unnecessary sweating which makes your body wet and therefore can make you cold.  Make a shelter.   Backpack Emergency Kit Make an SOS out of rocks or branches that can be seen from the air.  Do this only if you can do so without using up all of your energy if you don’t have food. Signal an airplane by flashing a mirror at the pilot three times to signal distress.  The pilot can jot down the coordinates to report to authorities that someone is in distress. How to Prevent Getting Lost in the First Place Before you set out, review your path and make mental notes of the direction you are supposed to be heading and what landmarks you should be passing.  Make particular note of any forks in the trail and which direction you take when you intersect other paths. Tell someone where you plan to go, when you expect to be back and when they should sound an alarm.  This could save your life.  Always bring a map and a compass and know how to use them.  A real compass, not one of those thumb-sized trinkets that come with a thermometer and clips on your backpack.  Those are useless.   Bring along a whistle, mirror, pocket knife and surveyor’s tape -- as part of your Emergency Kit (EP 002).  They can come in handy not only to help you mark your way back to the trail but also to help searchers find you.  Consider a satellite based SPOT GPS which can send out an SOS if you get in trouble and can email loved ones when you are safe. Everytime you come to a decision point, especially if it is not clearly blazed, make a mark in the soil or with stones to indicate which path you took and from where.  I sometimes just take a stick and mark the two sides of the “Y” that I’m using.  This way if you backtrack, you can always find your way back to your starting point. Also, at every decision point, turn around to see what the junction looks like from that perspective.  It usually looks completely different, and you want your brain to register this vantage point. Periodically take out your map to review your progress and make sure that it jives with the map. Create habits, such as only go to the bathroom on the right side of the trail, so you always know which direction you need to head.  Or point your sticks in a certain way. If you want to learn more about Gerry, her story and advice on woodscraft, Dee Dauphinee has just released a book, “When You Find My Body”.  The title comes from a journal Gerry kept that included this letter to whomever should discover her remains, and asked how to reach her family. I hope you never get lost in the woods, but if you do, I hope that the information we covered today will be of help to you.  Please share this episode with all of your outdoor loving friends.  You might help save their life. In this episode, I haven’t gone into detail about how to built an emergency shelter or how to test plants to see if they are edible or poisonous.  If you would like me to cover these types of topics, please write me. SURVIVAL SKILLS Learn these basic woodcraft/bushcraft skills and practice them not just at home but also in a real world environment in the woods. Making an Emergency Shelter   Making a Fire  https://youtu.be/CVD5KFB7478  Triangulation with a Map and Compass https://youtu.be/-Ak86suJFjo  How to Use a Compass

Hiking in Bear Country NOTE:  The Adventure Travel Show podcast is part of the Active Travel Adventures podcast community. Learn how to hike safely in bear country plus how to determine whether a bear is a black bear or a brown (grizzly), and what to do if attacked by a bear.  You'll learn about proper food storage and how to hang a bear bag, and why bear spray is best.   Former NPS biologist, Tom Smith, stated in a wonderful Backpacker mag article:  “Don’t go into bear country without a deterrent.  I mean ALL bear country, density be ‘insert the D-word’.  You can’t outrun them, you can’t outwit them, you can’t out anything them.  You need a way to say to the bear, “This far, no farther”.   You’ll Learn   How to tell the difference between a black and a brown (or grizzly) bear and how to react What to do if you are attacked by a bear Grizzly ‘Bluff Charges” - what to do Best Practices for hiking safely in bear country Why bear spray is the best deterrent How to store your food How to hang a bear bag (Scroll down for a detailed recap)   Webpage for more details, diagrams of how to tell the difference between a black bear and a grizzly bear (Brown bear): http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com/safety-tips-for-hiking-in-bear-country/ Links mentioned in this episode: Backpacker magazine article  9 Bear Safety Tips Active Travel Adventures podcast and website     Available wherever you listen to podcasts or directly on the website     Bear country episodes:  Glacier National Park, Pisgah National Forest, Banff (Canada) Center For WIldlife Information - (the cool bear graphic) TRAINING:  Make sure you’ve got your body ready for your adventure!  You can get a FREE Training Consultation to see if Fit For Trips, an affiliate of ATA, is a good fit for you.  They offer affordable custom training regimens to make help ensure success of your trip.   Click for a FREE Consult plus an ATA Discount   TRAVEL INSURANCE:  Be careful as not all travel insurance companies covers adventure activities!  I use World Nomads. They are affordable and cover just about any adventure you can dream up!  Plus you can get coverage for lost bags and delays, emergency medical and evacuations. Use this link to get a quick quote and at no additional cost to you, you help support ATA - thanks!   Welcome to Adventure Travel Show  podcast, I’m your host Kit Parks. On this podcast we dig into the skills and tips you need to maximize your enjoyment of your outdoor adventures.   Today we are talking about hiking in bear country.  You’ll learn how to identify whether you’re looking at a black or a grizzly bear - and hint - it’s not about color, you’ll learn how to minimize any unpleasant encounters with bears and what to do in an unfortunate bear attack.   Bear attacks are very rare, and rarer still if you are hiking in a group of three or more, so this show is not meant to scare you.  In fact bear encounters are a treat!   Let’s first learn how to determine what kind of bear you are looking at as the response is different: Black bear Most common Range is from Canada down in to some parts of central Mexico, and in the lower 48, in both the east and the west Usually just black, but can be blue-black, brown, cinnamon or even white Taller ears Straight roman face profile Smaller claws good for digging in logs looking for bugs, or for climbing trees   Grizzly Bear (sometimes called a brown bear) Can’t determine by the color.  Colors range from honey to Black.  Often brown. Instead look for the distinct humped shoulders and a head that looks like someone took a bowl and scooped out a part of the lower snout. Small rounded ears - I find these hard to distinguish , usually furrier Range from Alaska, Canada, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and possibly in the Cascades of Washington, and in Russia Larger claws - can be as large as a finger in mature adult   How to Determine what kind of bear from tracks:If you see tracks, you can tell by drawing an imaginary line horizontally across the top of the paw pad.  If the baby toe is below the line, it’s a black bear. Also, black bear paws are more rounded. Grizzly paws pads are more oblong, so the line is predominantly below the toe imprints.     Bears sense of smell: Bear brains are a third of the size of humans, but their olfactory is 5x larger.  They say that a bear can smell a rotting carcass 20 miles away, and think ‘din din’!   Having a nine inch nose helps, too!  It’s it’s full of A LOT more receptors.   How to Hike Safely in Bear Country   Find out whether and what kind of bears are in your hiking area. Check with rangers about current sightings.  In parks, rangers will close trails that have bear activity - usually berries are ripe, or another popular food is ready for them. Avoid wearing or using scented products.  Think shampoo, toothpaste, lotions, etc. Remember that big nose!  Scents attract bears. Like Dr. Smith advises, bring a deterrent:  Bear Spray. And don’t leave it in your pack.  Put it in a holster on your belt for quick access.  And super important: read the directions before you hit the trail.  If the spray is necessary, you won’t have time.   WHAT IS BEAR SPRAY?   Bear Spray is a pepper spray that is truly effective:  more effective than a gun! Dr. Smith did a study in 2012 and found of the 133 bear encounters using Bear Spray, only three were injured, all mild.  However, of the 269 bear encounters using a gun, there were 17 dead people and a couple hundred dead bears. Bear spray works up to 30’ away but only lasts ten seconds.  If you need to use it, make sure you are NOT spraying upwind, or it’ll go in your eyes.  Aim low so the spray doesn’t go over the bear’s head. The spray works by temporarily burning the eyes.  It does no good to “pre-emptively” spray your tent. That creates a scent that may actually ATTRACT bears! Plus:  if you shoot a grizzly in the lower 48, YOU are required to carry out the carcass.  Good luck strapping him on your backpack: a grizzly can weigh up to 1300 pounds. Black bears don’t exceed 660 lbs. Check with rangers about regulations of the park you are visiting.  For example, Bear Spray is NOT allowed in Yosemite as they only have black bears.  However in some parks, you are required to bring bear spray and if a ranger stops and you don’t have any, it can land you a hefty fine. Don’t hike SOLO.  Rangers recommend at least a group of three.  According to the NPS, 91% of attacks are of groups of 1-2, and most times folks were OFF TRAIL. Therefore, stay on trail and mind posted signs warning of trail closings due to bear activity.  Listen to the rangers. Make noise, such as “Hey Bear”, clap or sing.  The idea is not to startle or surprise a bear. This is especially important as you are coming to a bend where a bear could be around the corner, or in tall grass areas where a bear could be resting unseen.  Forget about “Bear Bells”...sometimes these actually attract curious bears and are no longer recommended. If you aren’t hiking in a park, then use good judgement and avoid berry patches and other bear food favorites.  Pay attention to your surroundings. Don’t bring your dog.  Bears and pets don’t mix well.  If you insist, keep it on a leash. Keep your kids close by and in sight. Bears are most active at night, and early morning and late afternoon, so hike during solid daylight hours is best. Store your food properly!!!  If you are car camping, food should be in a cooler in your car or hung from a tree.  If you are in a park where there are back country lockers - USE THEM! If they have poles or hooks, use them.  If you are on your own, use a Bear Canister, which are pretty effective and often mandatory in parks, but bulky and heavy.  Or get a lightweight, bear bag AND preferably, a OPSACK 100% odor-proof and waterproof plastic bag that goes inside the bear bag.  These you hang from a tree branch. You want to hand you bear bag on a tree at least 100 yards downwind of your campsite.  To hang a bear bag, tie a rock to a rope 50-100’ long. I use parachute cord. Toss the rock over a solid branch 10’ and preferably at least 15’, and then lower rock to the ground.  Remove the rock and tie your food bag to the rope and then pull it up. You want the rope to be at least four feet from the trunk. Remember to put all scented things in your container:  food, food scraps and trash - including strained food particles from your dish water that you add to your trash zip bag, toothpaste, lotions, shampoos, etc.  Some even go so far as to store their stove and kitchen equipment. Clean your pots with minimal soap or just use boiling water to sanitize like I do. When we are careless and a bear tastes and learns to crave human foods, we are often giving that beautiful bear a death sentence. Black bears and grizzly bears are not attracted to menstrual periods.  Polar bears are, though! Whenever possible, cook your meals at least 100 yards downwind from your campsite. If you see a carcass, move out of the area as bears are attracted.  Rangers also request that you report a carcass sighting. Be on the lookout for bear indicators… mud prints, claw marks on trees, upturned logs, rolled over rocks, and bear poop, otherwise known as ‘scat’.   What to do when you see a bear: Most of the time, seeing a bear is a treat!  But keep your distance: recommendations are 75 yds/70 m for a black bear and 100 yards/90m for a grizzly. So just give a wide berth.     Generally bears are afraid of humans and will run away, particularly if you are in an area where bears are hunted.  Your goal is to NOT SURPRISE A BEAR!   How you react if you encounter a bear depends on the kind of bear.  Remember the markers we discussed. To me the shoulder - humped on a grizzly, and the snout, super straight on a black bear, are the easiest markers from a distance.   Most of the times, a bear will simply be checking you out to see if you are a threat or not.  Bears attack for three reasons:  Predatory, territory or protective reasons.   NEVER GET BETWEEN A MAMA BEAR AND HER CUBS!!!  This is the most dangerous situation. If you see cubs, don’t approach them, even if you can’t see the SOW or mother bear.  She is close by. If you see cubs, slowly back away.   If you see a bear, and you are too close, you want to remember three things: Stand your ground.  Running might bring out a predatory response.  FOr this reason, never trail run in bear territory. Get your deterrent ready, ideally bear spray. Slowly wave your hands to look larger, yell “Hey Bear” to let it know you are human, bang pots and pans, throw rocks.  Usually this will do the trick.   Most people fear grizzlies more than black bears, but if you are attacked, it is the black bear that is trying to get you.  A grizzly will more often just do a bluff charge.   If a black bear attacks you, it is being predatory.  Fight back: punch him in the eyes and nose. GRIZZLY BLUFF CHARGE VERSUS GRIZZLY ATTACK   If a grizzly sees you, it is likely to stand up to check you out. Speak calmly and back up slowly.  Don’t appear like a threat.   A grizzly may do a “Bluff Charge”.  When a grizzly is bluffing, it’s ears are UP and it will HUFF and make noise.  As terrifying as it will be, STAND YOUR GROUND.  Usually that’s the end of it, and after the bluff charge you can slowly back up again, and have a cool story to tell your friends.   However, if the grizzly has its ears DOWN, its head LOW and is QUIET, be prepared to spray your bear spray.  You are about to be attacked.     CONTROL YOUR PANIC so you don’t spray too soon.  Wait until the bear is about 30’ away, and then aim LOW so you don’t shoot the spray over his head.  REMEMBER, bear spray is super effective.   If you are ignoring my advice and don’t bring bear spray, then unlike the black bear attack where you fight, with a grizzly, you play dead.  Ideally, you lie face down on the ground with your backpack on, spread your legs, and then place your hands on your head with your elbows out to make it harder to turn you over.  Your pack will get the brunt of it. If you roll up into a cannonball, you’ll probably get one bite before he leaves.   I want to remind you that this is an EXTREMELY RARE situation.   On my two week section hike of the Appalachian Trail with Jane and Gerry, we were really  beat one evening. Generally we started looking for a camping area around 4pm. On this section, we weren’t having any luck finding a suitable place for all three tents and ended up more scattered than normal in a subpar location.   Even though I was pooped, I couldn’t fall asleep right away, and around 11pm, I heard what I thought was Gerry, who was tented closest to me, outside my tent.  I was wondering why she was going to the bathroom so close to my tent instead of nearer to hers. The next morning, when I stepped outside to go to the bathroom, I saw a fresh pile of bear skat that most definitely wasn’t there the day before.  So it turns out that “Gerry” was in fact a black bear (the only kind in NC).   We had followed procedures and our food was stored far away, and was untouched, as were we.  I just got a funny story out of it.   When my friend, Venti and I were in Glacier National Park, we were lucky to have several grizzly sightings.  Mostly from the safety of our car in what they refer to as BEAR JAMS, where folks stop their cars to watch to the distress of the rangers.  But seeing that grizzly emerge from the woods and wander down to the lake is one of my favorite memories! What a delight to see such a magnificent creature in an equally magnificent setting!   Bears aren’t stupid:  they live in some of the most beautiful places on earth!  So go out and enjoy the scenery, but just be bear smart. If you follow these guidelines, and pack along your common sense as well as your gear, you’re going to be fine.   On the Adventure Travel Show website, adventuretravelshowpodcast dot com, you’ll see more info about hiking in bear country, with photos and diagrams.   And like always, I prepare a PDF on all episodes.  You can get them absolutely FREE if you sign up for my monthly email.  Note that I said monthly! I don’t sell your name or spam you - promise!  In this email, you’ll also find other tips and deals not mentioned on the show.   Visit ActiveTravelAdventures.com to subscribe or just shoot me an email at Kit at Active Travel Adventures dot com.  I’d love to hear from you and what you think of this new show! Links mentioned in this episode: Backpacker magazine article  9 Bear Safety Tips Active Travel Adventures podcast and website     Available wherever you listen to podcasts or directly on the website     Bear country episodes:  Glacier National Park, Pisgah National Forest, Banff (Canada) Center For WIldlife Information - (the cool bear graphic) TRAINING:  Make sure you’ve got your body ready for your adventure!  You can get a FREE Training Consultation to see if Fit For Trips, an affiliate of ATA, is a good fit for you.  They offer affordable custom training regimens to make help ensure success of your trip.   Click for a FREE Consult plus an ATA Discount   TRAVEL INSURANCE:  Be careful as not all travel insurance companies covers adventure activities!  I use World Nomads. They are affordable and cover just about any adventure you can dream up!  Plus you can get coverage for lost bags and delays, emergency medical and evacuations. Use this link to get a quick quote and at no additional cost to you, you help support ATA - thanks!                    

How to properly Choose, Fit and Pack your Backpack   Fitting a Backpack: Torso length is the critical measurement Some tall people have short torsos and some short people have long torsos, so it’s important to actually MEASURE your torso to get the most comfortable backpack for your body.   How to Measure Your Torso You will need a friend and tape measure: Tilt your head and look for the bony knob where your neck meets your back.  This is Point A. Place your hands on your hips with your thumbs towards your back.  Point your two thumbs at each other and draw an imaginary line. Where your spine meets this imaginary line is Point B. Measure the distance between Points A and B.  This is your Torso Length.   Look at the labels on the backpacks for the manufacturer’s sizing for your torso length.   If you are between sizes, check with an experienced outfitter for recommendations.     Compare features, fit, comfort and price to find the best backpack for you and your budget.  Quality pays. If you are going on a long backpacking trip but don’t want to buy a high qualtiy backpack, consider renting one instead.   Before you buy, either bring your own gear or use something at the store to fill up and add weight to the pack and walk around the store with the weighted pack for at least 15-30 minutes to make sure you are happy with your selection.  This is a much better time to find out something rubs you funny!   The Proper Way to Put on Your Backpack   Don’t just hoist it up over your back with the padded shoulder strap.  This causes stress to the seams and can cause future problems - and you don’t need a broken pack when you’re in the wild!   Lift your backpack up as follows:   Loosen all straps so you can easily adjust for a snug fit once the back is on your back. With knees slightly bent and with a wide, stable stance, grab the “Hoist Strap” with one hand.  This is the small loop strap in the upper center of your pack. NOTE: DO NOT hang up your backpack with this strap.  It is intending just for the momentary use to hoist the pack onto your back. Pull the pack upright up onto one knee with the hoist strap. Still holding the hoist trap with one hand for stability, slide one arm between the padded shoulder strap. Slide the other arm under the opposite shoulder strap. Now it’s time to adjust your backpack for the best fit.   How to Adjust Your Backpack Straps You should have already loosened the straps before putting on your backpack. RIght now, the pack is on your back but nothing is strapped yet.  Bend at the waist and first connect the hip belt and tighten so it’s snug.  The hip belt should be resting on your hips so that they bear the bulk of the weight.  Now straighten up. Tighten the two Shoulder Straps.  These are the straps that come down the padded straps.  This should be tight enough so the pack doesn’t sway, but not so tight as to cause neck problems.  You want the weight to remain on your hips. Larger packs have a Load Adjustment strap.  These straps are at the top of the pack. Try to form a 45 degree angle.  As the day goes on, it’s sometimes helpful to loosen and tighten to make yourself more comfortable. Connect the two padded shoulder straps with the chest strap.  Slide the strap up or down for comfort. Check to make sure your hip belt is snug.  Tighten as needed.   How to Properly Pack Your Backpack   Line your pack with a compactor trash bag to help keep things dry.  Save a heavy duty large twist tie. A heavy duty garbage bag works ok, too, but won’t last as long. If you use a water bladder, it’s easier to put that in first. Think of your backpack as having three layers: On the bottom of your pack goes the lighter, squishy items that you won’t need until later.  So here is where you put your sleeping bag, sleeping bag liner, your pad if it compacts, and night clothing. In the middle layer of your pack is where you put your heavy things such as your kitchen, tent and food.  Use extra clothes, rope and small items to fill in gaps and balances things so you are tippy on the trail.  Many state and national parks are now requiring that you keep food and toiletries in a Bear Canister. This is where that would go as well. On the top layer, is where you put things you’ll need during your hike, such as your thermal jacket in a waterproof compression sack, first aid kit, rain pants, and lunch.  You can put your rain jacket in here or in the big pouch on the outside back of your pack, depending on the weather and the likelihood of you needing it. Once everything is packed properly, twist the ends of the compactor trash bag and fold the twists over onto itself and then use the twist tie to keep it that way (like an upside down twisted “U”).  This way rain can’t collect in the opening. In the large section that goes on top of your pack go the things you use a lot:  sunglasses, maps, compass, water treatment system, a gallon zip bag labeled “Trash”, a quart zip bag with TP, bandana, hat and/or balaclava and snacks.  I keep my money and keys in a zip bag in my hiking pants, but if you prefer, put them in here. In your hip belt pockets, keep small containers of sunscreen, hand gel, chapstick, one of those ball point pen looking bug sprayers, and a whistle. Try not to put much on the outside of your bag.  Things can snag on trees, especially if you have to play ‘limbo’ under a fallen tree!  You can also lose things, like I lost one of my good hiking sticks when it came loose from the outside strap and pocket and I didn’t know it. I do tie a neon scrap of fabric to alert any hunters that I am not a deer or bear.  I also use a carabiner that I use to hang my food at night. On the carabiner, I hook my camp shoes (I use Crocs).   If I’ve rinsed out my bandana, I tie it on the back to dry.  Usually though, I twist it into a long roll that I wrap twice around my wrist before tying it.  This makes it super convenient to use as a sweat or nose wipe. Links Mentioned in this episode:   Active Travel Adventures podcast Essentials of a Backpack Emergency Kit Choosing a Portable Water Treatment System   For recommendations of gear and tours, visit the Resources page.  Some of the links may be affiliate links which means that at no additional cost to you, I might make a small commission which helps to defray some of the costs of this program.  It’s a great no cost way to support the show - thanks!   Be sure to subscribe to both the Adventure Travel Show Podcast and the Active Travel Adventures podcast and visit the websites for more information, photos and videos to help you to lead a bigger life through adventure travel! Connect with Kit: Kit Parks Host of the Active Travel Adventures and the Adventure Travel Show  podcast Twitter @Kit_Parks https://twitter.com/Kit_Parks Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures https://www.facebook.com/groups/ActiveTravelAdventures/ Instagram:  https://instagram.com/parks.kit/

How to Choose a Backpacking Portable Water Filtration and Purifier System   Adventure travelers can’t always carry all the water they need to stay hydrated while hiking, biking or paddling.  So you need to carry a way to safely treat water in the wild.   And water is HEAVY!  A gallon weighs over 8 pounds and a liter weighs 1 KG, so you want to carry what you need and maybe a tad bit more, but not much more.   On today’s Adventure Travel Show podcast, we look at the ways to filter and purify water from springs, streams, creeks, rivers and lakes.   It’s all about BALANCE.  There is no perfect water treatment system! Everything is a trade off: Weight Ease of use in the field Ease of cleaning and maintenance Effectiveness Time Money   Types of Water Treatment: Filtration:  a physical barrier prevents most protazoans and bacteria Purification: sterilization that also kills viruses Chemical: chlorine or iodine based Mechanical:  Boil   Water Filtration Methods: Pros/Cons:  Eliminates most protozoans and bacteria.  Ease of use and cleaning, affordable, can treat larger quantities, can be bulky.  For US use, this is generally sufficient. Often requires more than a trickle to fill the untreated bags. Pump and Squeeze Filters:  Require some work on your part, but still easy Gravity:  You must put the untreated bag higher than the fill bag but gravity does all the work Drink Through Filters: Simple, small and lightweight but only treats a small amount of water at a time.  Consider a straw filter as an emergency item in your pack and as a backup for your regular water treatment system.   Water Purification Methods: Pros/Cons:  Effective also against viruses, in addition to protozoans and bacteria.  Best for some overseas locations where disease and/or human/animal waste may be entering the water source.  Expensive. Need to carry extra batteries (weight). Easy to maintain. Small. Often need to pre-filter out any sand, grit or debris (in a pinch use your bandana). UV Light:  You put the light in a glass or water bottle and stir around for the amount of time indicated.     Chemical Water Treatment: Iodine or Chlorine tablets or drops Pros/Cons:  Small, cheap, effective BUT it can take 30 -240 minutes to treat, which obviously is a pain.  Plus especially iodine, has a funny taste most don’t like. NOT recommended for anyone who is pregnant or has thyroid issues.  Does not remove cryptosporidium. Good to keep a couple of tablets in your pack as a backup.   Mechanical Water Treatment: Boiling your water Pros/Cons:  Effective but you must boil ( a ROLLING BOIL!) for one minute and if above 6500’ elevation, for three minutes.  Can leave a metallic taste to the water. You still need to carry fuel, which is heavy (plus a pot and stove to cook it), and worst of all, you need to wait for it to cool down.  OK as a backup, but hard to use in practice if you are on the move.   Back Pack Bladder: I like to use a water bladder because the drinking tube which clips to the front of my backpack encourages me to stay hydrated and I don’t have to remove my pack to get my water bottle or ask someone to get it for me.   If there are many water sources ahead, I will fill the bladder as appropriate (I use a 3L size and will fill it halfway or all the way depending on how reliable water will be), and then either fill one or both of my backpack water bottles as a backup in case I use up all the water in the bladder (since you can’t see the water levels as you drink).   When I get home, I thoroughly CLEAN THE BLADDER!  There are cleaning tablets you can get that you stick in the bladder with warm water and let it rest, then clean and rinse thoroughly.  I let it dry out about a week and then fold it up neatly and store in a gallon zip bag in my freezer until the next use.   Also backflush and otherwise clean your water treatment system according to directions.   FINALLY:  Test your portable backpack water treatment system before you head back into the wild so you don’t have any unpleasant surprises (allowing time for a replacement in case it fails on you!)   If you plan on purchasing a new water treatment system or any adventure gear or tour, please consider using the links on my website.  At no additional cost to you, you will be supporting the show as sometimes I earn a small commission which helps pay for the costs of running this show- thanks!  Kit   Link mentioned on this episode: Active Travel Adventures Bhutan Episode 19:  Bhutan Culture Episode 20:  Bhutan Adventure Active Travel Adventures adventure travel podcast inspiring and empowering you to lead a bigger life through adventure travel   Connect with Host Kit Parks:   Host of Active Travel Adventures podcast and the Adventure Travel Show podcast https://activetraveladventures.com http://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Twitter @Kit_Parks https://twitter.com/Kit_Parks   Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures https://www.facebook.com/groups/ActiveTravelAdventures/   Instagram:  https://instagram.com/parks.kit/

Wilderness Emergency Backpack and Day Pack Survival Kit   Emergencies can happen while you are in the wilderness.  Improve your odds of getting back home safely and with minimal discomfort by packing this emergency backpack kit.   Unpleasant emergencies can be brought about by: Sudden change in weather Getting injured Getting lost Getting delayed and unexpectedly having to spend the night in the wild Running out of water Before you head out, assess your situation to determine how extensive your emergency kit should be.  There is always a trade off between weight and necessity.   Questions to ask yourself: Am I going solo or with others? Will there be many other people where I am going? Have I told someone where I am going, what time I expect to return and when to sound an alarm if I’m not back? How variable is the weather where I am going?  Are pop up storms possible? Is it possible that the temperatures can be below 50 degrees fahrenheit/10 degrees celsius (even at night and you aren’t planning on spending the night) How rugged and/or remote is the terrain? How well marked is the trail?   Links mentioned in this show: Podcast interview with Dr.Segler about preventing and treating sprained ankles in the wild https://activetraveladventures.com/how-to-prevent-and-treat-a-sprained-ankle-when-hiking-in-the-wilderness/   Connect with Kit Parks: Kit Parks Host of Active Travel Adventures podcast  https://activetraveladventures.com Host of Adventure Travel Show podcast  https://adventuretravelshowpodcast.com   Twitter @Kit_Parks https://twitter.com/Kit_Parks   Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures https://www.facebook.com/groups/ActiveTravelAdventures/   Instagram:  https://instagram.com/parks.kit/ Your Basic Survival Kit:   Alcohol wipes Antibiotic ointment Balaclava or wool hat if any chance of cold

What to do if you sprain your ankle while hiking in the wild   The Adventure Travel Show Podcast is a companion podcast to the Active Travel Adventures podcast (ATA).  On ATA, you learn the who, what, where and when of the world’s best adventure travel vacations. However on this podcast, the Adventure Travel Show Podcast, you’ll learn the HOW!   Today we learn what to do if you sprain your ankle while in the wild, how to prevent injury, how to test the strength of your ankles, and what small item should be packed in both your day pack and backpack.  Sprained ankles are one of the most common injuries we have while out in the wild.   Dr. Christopher Segler aka Doc on the Run Say you're out hiking in the middle of nowhere and BAAM!  You turn your ankle! Dr. Segler gives us an amazing interview on what to do if you twist your ankle and think you've sprained it, how to prevent such injuries in the first place, why buying too big of hiking shoes or boots may not be the best idea, he gives us an ankle strengthening exercise, plus offers us a helpful self-test to see if we are at risk of a sprained ankle (see my video below).  Who knew ankles could be so interesting?!!!  In our interview, we never got to the other parts of the body that hikers often injure, so Dr. Segler has agreed to make this a multi-part series!  Subscribe so you don't miss it!   A little about Dr. Segler… Here's a doctor who walks the walk – or I should say runs the run, as he is an athlete himself!  Dr. Segler dedicates his practice to helping athletes prevent and also treat their injuries without losing the conditioning they've worked so hard for making him the perfect doctor to talk to about figuring out what to do when you are out in the wild and you hurt yourself and need to keep going.  See below for a more detailed bio on this amazing doctor.   Links mentioned in this podcast: The original Active Travel Adventures podcast of this interview You can download the worksheet Dr. Segler mentions and see the demonstration videos here as well! Your Backpack Emergency Kit podcast episode: http://adventuretravelpodcastshow.com/emergency/   Here's what we cover: True story about Adam and a sprained ankle while climbing in Yosemite What they should have done How to assess a twisted ankle Why you should keep a compression sock in your day pack or back pack How to assess whether it's ok to use it after you've twisted it The difference between a sprain and a fracture When you should use Vitamin I (ibuprophen) and how much to take.  What are the counter indicators. How to prevent a sprain How you can ‘ice' down your sprained ankle in a creek to reduce and minimize swelling Can your ankle get too swollen for your boot? If you've ever had a sprain, you are at higher risk of future sprains even if it's been years. How to do a stork-like self-test to check the stability and strength of your ankles How to do a quick exercise to build up your ankle strength and stability.   Benefits of a wobble board We talk about the pros and cons of hiking shoes versus boots.  Do we HAVE to buy leather? Compare synthetic to leather.  How to test if a boot is strong enough by trying to twist the sole. Why it's NOT a good idea to buy boots a size too big. If you want to use different inserts, bring them with you when you shop for your new pair.  Make sure your toe bends where the boot bends. Connect with Kit and the Adventure Travel Show Podcast and be sure to also subscribe to the companion Active Travel Adventures podcast where you’ll learn about some of the coolest adventures on the planet!  https://activetraveladventures.com   Twitter @Kit_Parks  https://twitter.com/Kit_Parks Facebook Group: Active Travel Adventures   https://www.facebook.com/groups/ActiveTravelAdventures/ Instagram: https://instagram.com/parks.kit/                           Dr. Segler goes deep in each episode to help athletes heal (Hey! We're Adventurers, doesn't that make us somewhat of an ‘athlete'???) without losing conditioning and without giving up the sport they love!  Check out his podcast episodes by clicking on the box to the left! 3 Minutes to Stronger Ankles When Running on Trails from Dr Christopher Segler on Vimeo. Author of: Runner's Heel Pain: Self-Diagnosis and Self-Treatment, House Calls Startup Manual: How to Run a Low-overhead, High-profit Practice and Get Your Life Back Connect with Dr. Segler on: Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DocOnTheRunSanFranciscoPodiatryHouseCalls/ Twitter https://twitter.com/myrunningdoc Instagram https://www.instagram.com/docontherun Pinterest https://www.pinterest.com/DrChristopherSegler/ Here's Dr. Segler's Book:     Here's the transcript for this episode:Note that the times correspond to the original broadcast on the Active Travel Adventures podcast Kit: 00:00 Picture this you've been climbing all morning. And finally you get the reward. You're at the summit and you have a 360 degree view: panoramic. Absolutely gorgeous. You step back to take a selfie and BOOM you twist your ankle. Oh brother! You are eight miles from town. What on earth do you do? That my friends, is the subject of today's bonus episode on how to treat and prevent sprained ankles. I have got such a treat for you! Who would have thought sprained ankles could be so interesting. This interview had started to be a general first aid wilderness episode but we got so engrossed and it was so interesting that we've decided to make this a series instead. In today's interview the doctor's going to teach us what do we do if we should sprained ankle while we're out in the wild. Kit: 00:44 This is one of the most common mishaps that can happen to us. We'll also learn how to treat it how to tell whether or not we are at risk for a weak or a sprained ankle. He has talked me into adding something to my backpack which is something I very rarely do: I try to be as minimalist as possible. But I learned about a new product today that is new to me in the backpacking world, and it is now going to be part of my day and backpacks in the future. And I also found out that I was fitting my boots improperly. So there's lots of great information here. Like I said, who would have thought sprained ankles could be so interesting? Let's get right to it. Kit: 01:24 Welcome to the Active Travel Adventure's podcast. I'm your host Kit Parks. Our guest today is a foot and ankle specialist who focuses his entire business on athletes and keeping those athletes active even after injury. I thought it would be cool to bring him on because unfortunately, sometimes when you're out in the wilderness and you're miles from the nearest town to medical care, you're going to need to fend for yourself. Not only is our guest a much in demand speaker at medical conferences on running injuries and treatment, he's the author of Runner's Heal Painhas written a chapter in a medical textbook, and has written and presented countless papers. He's not a doctor just in the academic sense that you sometimes find… he's a doctor who actually walks the walk, or I should say runs, because he's an athlete himself. He's completed 15 Ironman tournaments as an Iron Man. Kit: 02:07 If you're not familiar with that term, is it insane endurance event. You start by swimming almost two and a half miles then you bike over a hundred miles. And just for giggles you follow that up with a marathon race of over 26 miles — all without a break. He actually did this once in less than 11 hours. And in 2015 he earned the distinction of Ironman All World Athlete. He's also a rock climber, having climbed multiple multiday big wall climbs, such as Lurking Fear on El Capitan– and that was during a storm. He's an avid adventurer who, with a partner in 1995, had a plane drop the two of them in a remote corner of the Alaskan range where they spent a month trying out a new route on Mt.. Debra and Mt Hess. Yes, I realize he's far more hardcore than we are, or at least most of us. But the important thing is he's a doctor who knows what it's like to be out in the wilderness and left to your own devices. Kit: 02:55 So today I had the honor of introducing you to Dr. Christopher Segler also known as Doc on the Run. Kit: 03:11 Dr. Segler, to begin with what exactly is a sprained ankle? Dr. Segler: 03:14 Sure. So a sprained ankle is is basically where you have a ligament that supports the ankle. In most cases, it's one of the ankles on the outside of your ankle. Sort of away from the midline of the body where you feel this lump of bone on the outside of your ankle. There are three little ligaments over there, and a sprain technically is where you have stretched or a very minor strains where you basically overstretched and have developed tiny little perforations in the collagen and that forms the ligament. The worst kind of sprain is where you completely rupture the ligament and that's a grade three sprain. A grade two sprains where there's a partial little rip that you could actually see at the edge of it. But none of that really matters that much as you can't see it. So you know grading ankle sprains doesn't really help you very much, but it's basically where you are walking along and you step on something, sort of on the arch side of your foot or under your big toe that pushes your foot over so that your foot kind of rolls to the outside and you then stretch and strain those ligaments in a way that they actually rip or tear Dr. Segler: 04:25 And you know that in itself is not such a problem, but when you're on a trip and that happens then it can sort of evolve over a period of hours or days to where it actually gets considerably worse. And once that happens it actually really can disrupt your trip because you can have a very difficult time walking. And it can get progressively worse. A lot of time these things catch people off guard. Kit: 04:48 So if we twister sprained ankle What do we do? Is there anything we can do? Dr. Segler: 04:53 There's always something you can do. So the first thing is to be aware that it can happen right? And and then, I mean, I can share a story about how that can happen and this was a there was a trip where I was actually rock climbing with a friend of mine, and obviously I know to about ankle sprains, right? So I treat them, I lecture to physicians about how to not miss subtle ankle fractures that appear to be ankle sprains but are actually teeny tiny little fractures that are really easily missed. You know I've researched those and when I was in residency I won an award for that, so I go to conferences, and they say I'm an expert on this. So I should know of all people. But a friend of mine, his name is Adam, and we were both rock climbing in Yosemite and we're on a very long route. Dr. Segler: 05:37 It's fairly easy as far as a rock climb goes but it's very very long. So it's definitely an all day rock climb. And we were just sort of starting the day it was super early in the morning and we were a few hundred feet up and Adam was leading. So he was going first and there's this one place where it's pretty easy but it's sort of sloped and he was stepping up from one position to another and he fell and he didn't fall very far… just a couple of feet, but he landed on a sloped surface. And when he did, it rolled his ankle over– sort of classic ankle sprain problem where he just sort of slipped on a sloping surface. And he said he sprained his ankle. Dr. Segler: 06:22 And so he came back down to where I was and I said, “Well how is it?” And he said, “Well I think it's OK. Just give me a second. I think it's fine, let's just continue on.” So we did. Now Adam has, I guess he's kind of a tough guy. So he has a fairly high pain threshold. He wanted to continue. He probably on some level didn't want to wreck our trip because we had driven all the way to Yosemite to go do this climb that day. Dr. Segler: 06:48 And so I think you know half of it was Adam just wanted to continue and not really call any attention to himself, and the other part was that he just thought he could ignore it. So the thing is, when you sprain your ankle… when you roll your ankle like that, the first thing that happens is you get natural endorphins that suddenly, like within a few minutes, dull the pain considerably. So part of it may be that Adam just didn't really recognize how bad it was because he had these natural endorphins that protect us from that discomfort. So if you do that, and you're on the way to the car and you're going home it's no big deal. Dr. Segler: 07:21 But if you're heading up a long climb or you're heading in an isolated area where there's no cell phone reception and you have a long way to go to your next stop, that can be a problem. So I asked him, he said it was OK, I didn't even really check it because he said it was ok, so I thought, “Well OK, this must be fine.” And we continued on. The problem is, there is a point on that rock climb where you're way up and really high up a few hours in and once you sort of make this one traverse you cannot get back down unless you get to the top. It's very very difficult to get off the climb at that point. So we got there, and Adam said he thought it was OK but it was getting kind of sore. Dr. Segler: 08:03 But we continued anyway. Within a couple of hours after that, he was having a lot of difficulty. The ankle really started to swell and it got progressively worse pretty quickly at that point. And that was a real problem because it's a very hot day. We were not really prepared to be there for the entire day. We thought we were going to move quickly and we didn't have enough water. So when it's very very hot, you need water. And it was very very hot. And so we both got severely dehydrated and then the last few sections climb, I remember Adam was moving really slowly and he would stop. I would hear him grunt in pain and he would just sort of stand there on the side of the wall just stopping to like kind of recover before you continue on. Dr. Segler: 08:51 So it got more and more painful as the day went on. That turned into a really serious adventure. So it ended up what was supposed to take us six hours ended up taking us more than 12. And we got down that night were both severely dehydrated and it was not really what we had planned for. And that's the thing, is that this could have been all preventable by a couple of things. First of all, if if we had had any way to do something about the swelling as was starting to happen, it wouldn't have become a problem. If Adam had done some stuff to strengthen his ankles before that, it would not have been a problem. But we didn't do either of those things so he had some ankle instability that put him at risk of this injury. Dr. Segler: 09:31 And then when it actually happened, we didn't really stop to assess it and do something about it right away. And if we had done something as simple as taping his ankle or even having him put a compression sock on, then it would not have swelled and become as painful as it was, and really put us at risk of a more serious problem. We really did have the risk of getting stranded on the wall and it was way after dark when we finally got down. So repelling off a huge rock climb where we're a quarter mile off the ground, in the dark, is not really ideal but that's what we had to do. And so really, just knowing what to do when this happens really can make a big difference at getting you to your next stopping point without your adventure turning into a misadventure. Kit: 10:18 So how do we assess it? We're not a doctor. We don't have you there on the trail with us. What do we do? How do we see if this is just something we can blow off, or do we need to stop and address it right then? Dr. Segler: 10:27 That's a good question. So the first thing is soreness. So if you roll your ankle and it hurts, ten you did something, right? And I have a lot of sort of inherent instability because I had damaged my ankles in a number of ways many years ago. I fully rehabilitated them and I still do lots of active stuff around on trails. I do lots of adventure travel sort things… rock climbing, all kinds of stuff lots of hiking. And I'm not at risk now. But the thing is when you sprain your ankle, first of all it hurts. And so it's really simple: if you feel that lump of bone on the outside of your ankle and you push around and it hurts anywhere around there those are where the ligaments are so the specific location of the ligaments doesn't really matter. Dr. Segler: 11:12 So if you push around there there's a joint capsule that holds all the fluid in your ankle and any portion of that joint capsule will probably be sore if you sprained your ankle. Now the problem is that it starts to swell within a short period of time. And if you can do anything to decrease the swelling, that will make the biggest difference. The problem with Adam was early in the morning he had sprained his ankle. He was trying to ignore it. He wanted to ignore it, and then it just got worse because he didn't do anything about it. Now at that time, realistically, when we were on the wall, I actually had a pair of compression socks — they were in my backpack. Dr. Segler: 11:55 Interestingly, on the way home I had Adam put the compression socks on and he improved considerably, just while we were driving home in the middle of the night. But, if we had just stopped long enough to really consider that, and I said , “Well OK, you sprained your ankle. It's probably going to swell. That's predictable. So why don't you just put on this compression sock?” We probably would not have had much of a problem. So it probably would have gotten a little bit worse but not nearly as bad as it did. Dr. Segler: 12:19 So now yesterday I saw a guy at home who sprained his ankle. And it was two weeks ago: he still has swelling. And so that's all residual swelling from where they had that initial blow up where it was really, really swollen. And you have to prevent that. That's just too much inflammation. And that's what really disrupts people. They get so swollen that it's really painful. It's hard to hike, it's hard to walk, and then it really disrupts your trip. Dr. Segler: 12:42 So initially if you can just tape it or even use compression socks… like a lot of people they go on adventure travel, they are going to some faraway destination, they're taking a plane to get there. And many people will wear compression socks just on the plane as a preventative thing. And if you have those compression socks, they don't weigh very much. They may not be the most comfortable things but if you put it on as soon as your sprain an ankle,your chances of it is not swelling as much are way better. So that's probably the simplest thing. Lots of doctors would argue that you should tape the ankle to support and protect it, but the truth is, is that even if we talk about it right now about how to exactly do that, it's a sort of technique thing, and it's not easy to remember. Most people are not going to carry a roll of athletic tape with them when they go on a hike. Dr. Segler: 13:31 And and it's not realistic, but the compression sock… it's so easy to bring a pair compression socks, and and if you do sprain your ankle and you just put the compression socks, on it will make a huge difference. Kit: 13:44 if you're not familiar with compression socks, I put a link in the show notes at the ActiveTravelAdventurist.com Web site. I know is at least one of these socks going in each of my packs from now on. What a great suggestion! Kit: 13:55 Is there any risk of doing permanent damage by walking, like if Adam had kept going going going, could he have done something permanent? Or as long as you eventually make it back you're OK? Dr. Segler: 14:07 That's a good question. So the short answer is yes, there's always a risk you could do more damage. But, that's only if you really have a fracture. And now fractures do happen. So I will tell you like one of the research studies I did when I was in residency was on this subtle fracture pattern called a lateral process fracture. The specifics of it aren't important, it's just that when I was in med school we were taught that the occurrence of lateral process fractures or how often they actually happen was actually really, really, really rare. And so we were taught that it was 0.86 percent of all ankle injuries involved. One of these little subtle ankle fractures on the outside of your ankle right where it hurts when you have an ankle sprain. Dr. Segler: 14:55 So what I did was, I got it approved through the University Institutional Review Board. We reviewed three years worth of patients that came through the university hospitals and clinics and looked at a huge number of patient. So it was in the end, after we eliminated all the people who didn't qualify, it was 1480 patients. And all we were trying to do is figure out whether or not these things were really that rare because it didn't seem like they were that rare. And sure enough that it occurs and almost 10 percent of all ankle sprains. So basically, you have a one in 10 chance of actually having one of these subtle fractures. Dr. Segler: 15:28 So the thing is if you have a standard ankle sprain it doesn't really hurt that much when you start walking on it. It may hurt a little bit. It gets way worse if you keep walking on it just because it keeps swelling and it gets more and more swollen. The tissue on the inside of the joints sort of swells inward and then that swollen tissue is getting pinched between the bones when you move your foot up and down as you walk. So that's what really happens with an ankle sprain. But if you have one of these subtle fractures or if it's a bad one then it's certainly going to hurt a whole lot more. And if you have that, yes, there is a risk that you could do more damage. So if you're concerned that you have one of those because it is really really painful initially, then there is a risk that you can make it worse by walking on it. Dr. Segler: 16:12 So you don't want to just ignore it. And the biggest mistake we made was that we basically, Adam and I both just more or less ignored it thinking well it will be OK. It's just a minor thing, but it got worse. And so if you have that kind of pain that really is super sensitive and it's really tender when you press on it then you're better off if you if you take it easy. Kit: 16:35 So if I'm understanding you, if right after we twist it if we have immediate hard pain then we may have done that, that 10 percent fracturing. If it's OK and then progressively it gets worse, it's more likely just a sprain? Dr. Segler: 16:48 That's true. That's true. So yes, the subtle ankle fractures, the're first of all that's one out of 10 so it's not really common. But it's also associated with a more severe injury like, (for example) you're wearing a heavy pack. You slip on the side of some loose terrain… some scree or something like that. Dr. Segler: 17:08 And and you have a significant fall. Whereas ankle sprain is, like Adam didn't even fall dow. His foot just kind of flipped over because he was landing on a sloping surface. And and it sort of startled him, but it didn't really hurt that much. But you can imagine that if you, as opposed to just stretching the soft tissue which is basically what an ankle sprain is, if you actually cracked the bone, that's definitely going to hurt more. And then every time you move it it you're moving this fracture… this broken piece of bone. You have jagged bone kind of bumping up against each other where the two pieces are. And that causes a lot of pain. Whereas if you just have an ankle sprain, many times when you're moving it around, it actually starts to feel better just because, I don't know, it kind of pushes some of the fluid out of that area. And it may not hurt that much when you're first moving it. So the more tenderness you have generally the worse it is. Kit: 17:58 In both cases, or one on the other, is it a good time to take vitamin I or ibuprofen? Dr. Segler: 18:06 Well yes. So this is, well, good idea. It depends on your goal. So the thing is, is that if you just have a sprain and you, let's say you are somewhere in a remote area, you're on one of these adventure trips, right? And you're not exactly in a convenient area: you don't have cell reception. You're in Glacier, right? If you're, like on your podcast on glacier, if you're in the middle of nowhere on a trail, you have no cell reception, you have miles to go before you get to the next camp, the next stopping point, or a ranger station, and you really need to get there… almost like a self-rescue kind of thing. I think it's better to take ibuprofen because it will significantly reduce the discomfort. Now, although it is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory, and just because the name we always think it stops inflammation, they really won't stop inflammation that way. Dr. Segler: 18:52 Like if Adam had taken a bunch of ibuprofen right when he sprained his ankle, it was still going to swell. It doesn't really work as an anti-inflammatory until you've taken it for a number of days. But it will certainly decrease the discomfort. So if the goal is to get somewhere, to get to safety, to get to your next stopping point, I think it's worth doing. However if the goal is to get it to heal as quickly as possible, taking ibuprofen or any non-steroidal anti-inflammatory like, Aleve, Nuproxen, any of those things, it's actually counterproductive because studies have shown that non-steroidal anti-inflammatories can actually decrease the healing time for tendon to bone interfaces. And all a ligament is, is basically collagen that connects two bones. So when you have an ankle sprain, you actually have damaged that interface where the bone touches to the collagen ligament. Dr. Segler: 19:45 And if you take anti-inflammatories it can slow down the healing process. So if you think you just have a standard ankle sprain and you need to take it for pain control to get somewhere I think that's fine but if you're trying to get it to heal as quickly as possible I think that can be counterproductive. Kit: 20:01 And Doctor, what kind of dose of ibuprofen would we take if we're just trying to get to the next place? Dr. Segler: 20:05 Well that's a good question. So the thing is, is that without an assessment you should never take more than the over-the-counter doses. What that means for Ibuprofen is basically 400 milligrams or two of the over-the-counter pills. Anything more than that is a prescription dose. But you know many patients do that. They will frequently just on their own take full strength prescription strength doses which would be three or four of them but that's not a good idea unless you talk to your doctor. Because if you have any kidney problems or any that sort of stuff, G.I. gastrointestinal problems, if you have stomach ulcers, anything like that, that can be a terrible idea to take high doses or prescription doses of ibuprofen. Kit: 20:42 Are there any techniques you can give us that will help us prevent the injury in the first place? Dr. Segler: 20:47 Before we talk about how to prevent it, one other thing that actually can really work extremely well if you sprain your ankle, to shut off the inflammation, that's even better than ibuprofen… which doesn't happen everywhere for sure, you know in the Grand Canyon, you kind of only have one choice for water and that's at the bottom of the canyon. But if you're in Glacier, if you're in a number of national parks, if you're in Yosemite, there are rivers, most of which are formed by glacial melt, right? Or are snow melt and they're very very cold, right? And so if you ice the ankle that's one of the best things to stop inflammation. So if you happen to have a mountain stream, that's cold running water, that just sitting with your ankle in the river or stream you know for 10 minutes can make an enormous difference because it constricts all the blood flow and really prevents that inflammation from starting very very effectively. So if you happen to roll your ankle and there is some sort of mountain stream nearby that's cold running water, particularly anywhere like glacier or those types you know in the Himalayas, any of those areas, that can make a huge difference is stopping the inflammation Kit: 21:56 Is there any risk when you take your feet out of your shoes/your boots and it swells up that you can't get them back in? I guess with the rivers they would stay constrained but if you're resting your feet, is there… is that a possibility when you say it swells? Dr. Segler: 22:10 There is a possibility that could happen but that's going to happen either way. The boots aren't really tight enough to stop the swelling. Compression socks would prevent that from happening. But if you are going to take your… and a lot of people want to do that. It feels better to take their boots off. But the truth is, is that the best thing you can do, if you don't have access to a glacial stream or you didn't bring your compression socks or whatever, if you can basically just lie on your back with your feet straight up, leaning against a tree or against a rock, or whatever, and you have your feet way up above your heart. That makes a huge difference is stopping the inflammation because the blood flow has to fight gravity and go uphill at that point. And so keeping your boots and your socks on I think is better because any external compression will help also reduce that inflammation that happens after an ankle sprain. Kit: 22:59 So what kinds of things can we do to prevent problems in the future. Dr. Segler: 23:02 Right. So the first thing is to figure out whether or not you're really at risk. Not everybody has ankle instability but the first thing is, if you've ever sprained your ankle, you're at enormous risk for developing another ankle sprain in the future. So if you roll your ankles when you're a kid, if you sprain your ankles in college playing basketball, if you roll your ankle one time on the beach walking in the sand, you're at risk. And most patients who have had those sort of remote history of an ankle sprain, some time long ago, many years ago, they always think, “Well that was 20 years ago. Can't be a problem.” And so I see these patients all the time and even when I do Skype consult for somebody, for example, they'll tell me that they sprained their ankle a long time ago but it doesn't matter anymore. Dr. Segler: 23:46 And I'll say ok and I have them do a very, very simple test. And all I do is I tell them OK: stand in the middle of the room and hold your arms out straight. So it looks kind of like the the the drunk test on the side of the road. And I just stand there with feet together hold your arms out straight now close your eyes and they kind of roll their eyes more or less and say OK. And then I say OK , now great. Now pick up your right foot. So if their previously injured foot is their right foot, the bad one, pick up their bad foot. So that is just suspended in the air. Kind of like looks like a stork, the way they pick up their leg. Dr. Segler: 24:21 And basically standing there with their arms outstretched bouncing on the right foot with their eyes closed and they may kind of wobble a little bit but they can more or less just balance. And I'll wait until it's been about 10 seconds just to confirm that they can actually balance OK in that position, balancing on one foot. Then I say, OK great. Now put your right foot on the ground, you know, your bad foot. Pick up your good foot, your left foot, hold your left foot up in the air with your eyes closed, your arms outstretched, to see if you can balance. And though usually they keep putting their foot down, losing their balance repeatedly and because their arms are outstretched, they can see how far their arms are swinging before they catch their balance. And at that point what's happening is they actually tore the nerve fibers in the joint capsule when they rolled the ankle so they can't really tell the position of the ankle anymore. Dr. Segler: 25:08 And so the ankle to them feels weaker but it's really just that they've lost what we call proprioception or the ability to determine the position in space based on the ankle moving. And that happens every time you roll your ankle. So if you roll your ankle, you don't have the ability to feel that anymore. And so you know somebody like Adam that has maybe sprained his ankle before and he falls, he lands on the surface, and it starts to roll his ankle, he doesn't notice it's rolling until he feels that he's falling because his vestibular system, or the balance center in his middle ear, actually picks up the motion of him sort of moving sideways to start to fall. Dr. Segler: 25:48 And then it's too late. Your the muscles around the ankle, the peroneus brevis tendon, those things actually stabilize your ankle, they can't pull your foot back under you at that point, and you roll your ankle. So if you do that test where you balance on one foot with your arms outstretched and your eyes closed and you can tell that one foot is considerably weaker than the other, or you have a lot of trouble trying to balance on one foot, then you can do some simple exercises to really strengthen that ankle and actually get that sort of proprioception, or the ability to tell a position without thinking about it, you can get that back by using the stretch receptors in the muscles and it's really just a simple routine. Dr. Segler: 26:31 So there's there's basically a couple of really simple exercises. One of those is where you cross your feet. So like if you're sitting in a chair with your legs outstretched and you cross your legs and you put your little toe joints together and then you push it will stabilize the the the ankles the muscle that supports the ankle the peroneus brevis tendon primarily. And I could actually send you a video that you can put on the Web site if you'd like, or link to it but it's just a short video there may that shows you exactly how to do that. And that's something you can do while you're sitting on a plane while you're sitting at your desk. If you do that that I think is the one exercise that can cause the most increase in strength for anybody with ankle instability. Then for people that have really sprained their ankles, I give them a very specific rehabilitation thing that's like phase one, phase two, and phase three. Dr. Segler: 27:16 Phase three is where you use a wobble board to deliberately train your ankle to become stronger. And I can send you that as well if you want to supply it for people who listen to the podcast The phase three part is what really strengthens your ankle and makes you more or less immune to those kind of sprains that otherwise you'd be so susceptible to. Dr. Segler: 27:38 And literally like spending three minutes a day you could strengthen the ankles in just a couple of weeks. So you'd be at dramatically lower risk for having these kind of problems. Kit: 27:50 If you go to the ActiveTravelAdventures.com Web site, I'll post the video that Dr. Segler talked about for the exercise. I've also posted a video of me doing the self test like the stork to see what my ankles look like. And also have a link to the wobble board. You can find it on the site by either looking up Bonus Episode number two, Dr. Segler, ankles or any of the key search terms should be able to pull it up for you. Just type any of those terms in the magnifying glass search bar. Kit: 28:21 What's the deal on having the shoes having the ankle support? I've always worn like the Merrell trail shoes so they're like a sneaker on the top but then have the trek on the bottom. How important is it to have ankle support? Dr. Segler: 28:33 Well that's a good question. You know so here's the thing. So I actually really wondered about that. And when I was a student in med school, I actually did a research study and because I wondered about this. It was supposed to be about climbing injuries. But the truth is, this study was really about hiking to rock climbs. And so what I did was, I did a study on frequency and mechanisms of injury among rock climbers. And it was the largest type of that sort of study ever done. I actually got a grant from the American Alpine Club to do that investigation. Dr. Segler: 29:09 And that's the thing is, that it's really about the hiking to the climb because I had the suspicion that climbers don't necessarily get injured that much from falling. Dr. Segler: 29:17 It's really from tripping and slipping and spraining ankles and stuff like that while they're riding a heavy pack, wearing relatively lightweight hiking shoes, on their way to the climbs. And many times there's no trail. It's usually some kind of unstable surface. But what I did was I basically sent out surveys to 3500 members of the American Alpine Club and then it got back 603 completed questionnaires. Now the thing is is that the really interesting thing for everybody listening to this is that 80 percent of climbers who reported spraining an ankle while hiking to the base of a climb were wearing those sort of lightweight hiking boots or hiking shoes that you're talking about. And the overwhelming majority of people who fractured an ankle while hiking also were wearing lightweight hiking boots. So lightweight hiking boots are very popular because they breathe. They usually have uppers that are sort of mesh or some lightweight material so that they are comfortable when they're hot and they're light weight. Right? Dr. Segler: 30:16 So they're they're not heavy, and they're more comfortable, but they don't protect you very well. So heavyweight backpacking boots are way more protective. They're also a lot stiffer. They're hard to get used to. You are more risk of getting blisters if you have those and haven't really broken them in. But after that study, I started really put in a lot of effort into encouraging people hiking and rock climbing to wear more sturdy boots. And I think that they actually do really decrease your risk of having an injury if you have more stable heavyweight backpacking boots. So if you pick up the shoe and you hold it in your hands, you try to twist the sole out of shape. It's virtually impossible to twist it out of shape. Dr. Segler: 30:59 It's also very very difficult to bend the sole out of shape as if you're pushing the toes up. But with lightweight hiking shoes and hiking boots is very easy to do that. So I believe they will protect you because they do provide a lot more support provided they're laced up and they're laced appropriately. If you have them loosely laced or you don't lace the top laces they actually really won't help you as much. So then at that point you have a more stable platform underneath you but it doesn't really protect you from ankle sprains So I think that it's important to really think about your footwear, and if you're doing a lot of hiking on the trip, if you can wear the heavyweight boots it actually will protect you some. Kit: 31:41 I'm actually just shopping for some. I'm getting ready to prepare for a trip out to the Himalayas where they are recommending that I wear boots, and at the stores I'm seeing more of the synthetic material instead the leather. Does make a difference? I mean does leather provide a benefit that the synthetics don't? Dr. Segler: 31:55 That's a good question. So in the past I would have said 20 years ago for sure leather was better. But lots of companies now, like La Sportiva and some others, they have really made big strides in terms of increasing the stiffness of heavy weight backpacking boots that are made of synthetic materials. So there's a benefit to everything right? So the synthetics are usually lined with Gore-Tex or something. They're basically waterproof if they do get wet, they dry out faster. If leather boots get wet, they stay wet. If they're wet and they're Gore-Tex leather boots, it doesn't matter your feet don't get cold or wet but the boots are way heavier if they're soaking wet. And you may not think that's a big deal but if you're hiking in the Himalayas and you're hiking 10 miles you have to pick your foot up and put it down a lot of times. Dr. Segler: 32:41 And you know that increased weight does make a difference over time. So the synthetic materials are generally lighter. And you can tell because if you try to twist the boot out of shape — you find like the biggest strongest guy in the store and ask him, see if he can bend this thing… so bend the sole and it won't bend, and you squeeze the heel counter the part of the back of the boot that goes around your heel and it's rock hard and very very stiff, then it's going to be just as supportive as a really heavy weight backpacking boot that's made of leather. Kit: 33:12 What advice can you give us about choosing the right pair of boots? Dr. Segler: 33:23 That's a great question. So the thing is, as many people are concerned that they're going to get blisters or black and blue toenails. And so one common error is that they'll get shoes that are too big. Many times they'll say well maybe I'll get them that are big because I'm going to wear two or three pairs of socks with them. We don't need to wear two or three pairs of socks unless you're going someplace where it's 40 below zero. So if you have boots that fit you appropriately you're at a lower risk of getting problems. So if you get boots that are too big, first of all you have to remember that the shoe break or the curvature that's under the ball the foot is in the wrong position. So when you walk when your heel comes up off the ground your toes are still on the ground and your foot's bending at the ball the foot that's where you want the curvature of the shoe. Dr. Segler: 34:01 If you get a shoe that's one size too big for you the curvature is out in front of you. And those patients then that have boots that are too big they're basically kind of like vaulting off the end of the shoe and it makes things awkward and it can put you at risk of all kinds of different overuse injuries. So it's really important to make sure they fit appropriately. Now most stores, if you go into some store that specializes in hiking boots and that sort of stuff, they'll have people that are knowledgeable about how to fit you correctly and they'll check you and make sure you get the right size shoes. Obviously you don't want your toes banging up against the inside of the boots, but you also don't want them too big. So I would just caution people to make sure that they're getting the right sized boots by getting an appropriate fitting. Kit: 34:42 Should we get rid of the inserts that come with them and put something else in? Dr. Segler: 34:45 I don't think it matters unless you have foot problems. So that's a very popular thing to do. There's a whole range of over-the-counter inserts that are really good. There's lots of different ones available and they can provide more support. Dr. Segler: 35:00 It just depends upon whether or not you need them. And the other thing is, that if you're going to do that, you should definitely do it when you buy the boots. Because the inserts that come in most hiking boots are thinner than the over-the-counter orthotics or over-the-counter inserts that go in the shoes because they're designed to have more support. So because they have more support they have more material underneath you. And if you get boots that fit you perfectly and then you buy some inserts that are thicker by three or four millimeters and you put them in your shoes and suddenly it lifts you up and you may be hitting your toes against inside of the toe box and you have less room in the shoes. So then you've just sort of by buying the inserts may have made your shoes effectively like a half a size too small. Kit: 35:42 Before we sign off is there anything else important that we should know about the treatment and prevention of sprained ankles? Dr. Segler: 35:49 I think that's the main thing. I mean the reality is, is you know you don't need to go prepared with splinting materials and planning for every disaster, right? You have to carry everything you take when you go on an adventure trip and you want to make sure you're prepared, but taking some compression socks is really the simplest thing you can do. Knowing that you can basically ice it by soaking your foot and ankle in a in a stream or elevating it if you do actually sprain it. That's really all you need. But then it's really just doing that self-test at home to see, “Am I or am I not really at risk for problems?” And if I am, then really just trying to do some quick exercises. Just really like, truly like, a couple of minutes a day to get some more ankle stability can go a long way to preventing the kind of problems that could otherwise wreck your trip. Kit: 36:35 Doctor, you also have a podcast can you tell us about that, please? Dr. Segler: 36:41 I do. So, I have a podcast called the Doc on the Run podcast, and mostly I treat injured runners and triathletes. So I see all kinds of patients. I mean, one of the people yesterday was a rock climber. I see lots of different patients. People get injured hiking and everything else. But basically what I do is, I I just realized a long time ago that a lot of times when you go to the doctor they tell you something that just doesn't sit right. Dr. Segler: 37:07 In fact, my my first episode of that I was racing motorcycles professionally and I had damaged my knee and the doctor actually said, “Well if it only hurts when you're riding motorcycles you just quit riding motorcycles.” And then what I learned was that doctors would also tell people, “Well if it hurts when you're running you should just swim. Or if it hurts when you hike you should just do something else.” And the reality is, it's not the doctor's job to tell you what to do. It's the doctor's job to get you back to your activity whatever that is. If you want to hike and you have problems hiking you need somebody that's going to help you get there. And if you want to hike 10 miles a day, then your doctor should help you get to hiking 10 miles a day. So basically I created a podcast to help people understand how to deal with those injuries and how to continue maintaining activity while they're injured so they don't lose all of their fitness. I mean because, let's face it if you're going to go on a long trip you spend a lot of time training, them when you get injured, you lose all of that fitness. And that can be very very frustrating. Dr. Segler: 38:04 I created a podcast to try to help people understand all these different kinds of injuries and help them figure out how to maintain their activity so that they can get back to those those activities as quickly as possible. Kit: 38:15 I noticed on your DocOnTheRun.com Web site you have lots of resources. How about telling us a little bit about those please? Dr. Segler: 38:23 Yes, there are lots of resources. There are lots of different videos, lots of sort of self-diagnosis tools, lots of worksheets to help people figure out what to do and and even some worksheets like one I think came out, well it's coming out tomorrow actually. Basically the idea of when you go to a doctor and they tell you that you need a fractural walking boot, for example. It's basically a worksheet where all you do is printed out, and it tells you what questions to ask your doctor. And that can be useful for anybody with any kind of injury when they want to get back to activity. Because you have to sometimes, when you go to the doctor, you have to get them to slow down and to actually pay attention to what your desired activity is. Dr. Segler: 39:07 So if you say, well I sprained my ankle and the doctor says just take six weeks off, but you're leaving for a trip to go to Glacier National Park in four weeks. That's not really going to work. And so you need to sort of get the doctor to slow down and say, “OK wel,l if I want to go to Glacier do this hike in four weeks, how do I get there?” And it's really just a lot of resources like that where you, a way to help you manage your doctor's visits and get the information you need from the doctor. Because the truth is, it's the doctor's job to go to school, get all the training, learn all this stuff that it takes to help you get better. It's your job as a patient to go to the doctor ready to extract all that information from the doctor. And that's what you really have to do when you go see a doctor, when you have all these injuries and you want to stay active. Kit: 39:46 I'll be sure to put a link to that in the show as well. And I'm also going to put all of your social media contacts but is there a best way for people to reach out to you? Dr. Segler: 39:54 Well the best way is just to, you can go to the Web site to DocOnTheRun.com and send an e-mail through there. You can also e-mail me directly it's just Dr. Segler D-R-S-E-G-L-E-R@DocOnTheRun.com [drsegler@docontherun.com]. Kit: 40:08 Dr. Segler We really appreciate your time. You've given us some great information and I hope we can get you back on another episode. Dr. Segler: 40:13 Allright that sounds great. Thanks. Kit: 40:15 I hope you got as much information out of this program as I did. And please visit DocOnTheRun.com and also check out his podcast. I'll have links to both on the Web site and at ActiveTravelAdventures.com. If you know a hiker or a runner, be sure to share this episode either on Facebook or via email. I'm going to be covering more what to do when something goes wrong on the trail as future bottoms episodes. So if you have questions don't hesitate to e-mail me at Kit@ActiveTravelAdventures.com on that or any ideas for future episodes. I love hearing from you and love your feedback questions and ideas. I'll see you next Thursday. Until next time Adventure on!