Podcasts about e myth revisited

Travis Timmons shares with host Andrew Stotz how a decade of frustration running his physical therapy practice turned into joy once he discovered Deming's philosophy and embraced systems thinking. Through PDSA cycles, clearer processes, and genuine team involvement, he transformed Fitness Matters from chaotic growth to a scalable organization getting stellar outcomes. His story shows how small businesses can create stability, joy in work, and remarkable results by improving the system rather than pushing harder.   TRANSCRIPT   0:00:02.1 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today I'm here with featured guest Travis Timmons. Travis, are you ready to tell us about your Deming journey?   0:00:19.7 Travis Timmons: Hey Andrew, thanks for having me. And yeah, very excited to share our journey and how impactful it's been on both our company, but also me personally and my family. So, super excited to kind of share where we started before Deming and where we're at today. So I'll just dive right in if that sounds like a good...   0:00:39.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And I think just for the audience here, I'll just mention that Travis is physical therapist, founder and president of Fitness Matters in Columbus, Ohio, going on his 27th year of business. And you know, you and I have had some discussions. You've had a lot of great things that you've written and we've gone through and I think it's really an exciting story, particularly for a small mid sized business owner who's just frustrated as hell that things aren't going the way that they want. And I think your frustration a long time ago was a driving force. So I'm excited for you to share your story. So yeah, take it away.   0:01:22.6 Travis Timmons: Yeah, very excited. Yeah, 2000 is when we started, January 2000. So coming up on 27 years, as you mentioned, do physical therapy and wellness. And the first 10 years I was in business, pretty good at being a physical therapist. Started my own business and had no idea how to run a business. I knew a lot about physical therapy, but just kind of shooting from the hip in regard to business. Spent about a decade struggling, frustrated. We were growing, but growing slowly, growing chaotically. No process, it was just a, it was a heavy burden, to be honest with you. We were growing, but it was kind of Herculean effort on my part.   0:02:10.1 Andrew Stotz: I'm just curious how you were feeling at that time. Like there's gotta be a better way or this is the way business is and I just gotta muscle through this or how were you feeling at the time?   0:02:21.0 Travis Timmons: I was feeling frustrated and isolated. Didn't quite know where to turn. Yeah, I guess that's how, and just a burden. Didn't want to let the team down, I did not want the business to fail. I knew we had something different to offer. Just really had no idea how to scale that in a professional way. And along the journey was very fortunate to have a client who had a very successful business, took me under his wing. Ray Crook is his name. Started mentoring me and as luck would have it, he was familiar with Dr. Deming and a very long story short, after several meetings with him over time, some mentoring, I'd read the book along the way, the E-Myth Revisited and had some learnings from that book that really jumped out at me and came to the conclusion, both with reading that book and some feedback from Ray of basically, hey, it's time to grow up and turn this into a real business. If you're going to do this, let's do it right. And at that, around that time he introduced me to Kelly Allen with the Deming Institute. And you know, so we were 10 years into some chaos, had really no process, just would try stuff, see if it stuck or didn't.   0:03:43.5 Travis Timmons: If that didn't work, didn't really have any way to measure if stuff was working well. So really just a lot of chaos. And became introduced to Deming through Kelly Allen about 10 to 11 years into our journey and man, was that a breath of fresh air in terms of like having a direction to go in. After a few meetings with Kelly, him getting a better understanding of what was important to me, I think him just really understanding that I was serious about wanting to turn our organization into a large, professionally run and well run organization that would have a positive impact on people's lives, both team members and clients. I think he kind of, I think that we were so bad off he took pity on me to begin with, just to be honest with you, and he was like, man, this guy needs a lot of help. He could do some good in the world with what the services they have to offer. But if he doesn't figure out how to run a business professionally, they're never going to scale.   0:04:44.0 Andrew Stotz: And it's interesting that you reached out. I mean, there's a lot of people that are stuck in that situation and they really don't, either they don't reach out or they're afraid to reach out or you know, maybe they think there's no solution or nobody's going to help me. And you know, certainly when you're small, you also don't have huge budgets to hire people to come in and fix your business. You know, I'm just curious, like what drove you to even reach out?   0:05:09.8 Travis Timmons: I think I was fortunate enough to, A, have the mentor with Ray. And then secondly, have always been a believer in you got to check your ego at the door and know that you don't know everything. I think I've seen Business owners that are afraid to admit they don't know everything and so they keep things insulated and that just doesn't get you anywhere.   0:05:35.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:05:36.3 Travis Timmons: So I just was fortunate kind of how I was raised as arrogance isn't a good thing, so check your ego at the door and learn from, learn from people smarter than you. And so I kind of took that fully at heart and like, all right, I have no idea how to run a business. I need to learn how to do that from really smart people. Read a lot of business books over the years, but the Deming philosophy, when I was introduced to that at the two and a half day seminar, went to that. I got to the Deming two and a half day in, I think that was 2013. So I was 13 years into the entire journey by the time I had met with Kelly, done some learning. And then at a time where the Deming two and a half day was offered in Ohio to where I could get to it, to your point earlier, budget plays into things for small businesses. So I was able to drive to that one and that two and a half day seminar just opened my eyes up to things that I knew in my heart but had no idea how to make that happen.   0:06:46.2 Travis Timmons: And what I mean by that, Andrew, is one of the key things I took away from that first two and a half day is Deming's belief that roughly 96% of issues within an organization are not people issues, but they're process and system issues. And that aligned with my worldview of if you hire good people, which we did, they show up every day wanting to do a good job as long as they have a good system and process to work within something that's professionally put together. So that was takeaway number one that really resonated with me. And the person responsible for said system is me. There's no passing the buck as the owner. And that resonated with me. It's a big responsibility to own a business in terms of the people and clients you're responsible for. And there's no passing the buck. You're responsible for the system at the end of the day.   0:07:42.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. I remember when I was 24 attending Deming seminar, when I was working for Pepsi, and it was a little bit different situation than yours. I could see, though, the same thing resonated with me. I could see that people were hemmed in by the system. And even though many people in the factory had really good intentions and they wanted to do a better job, they literally couldn't because they didn't have the tools or the budget or the this or the that. And a lot of times it's easy for senior management, particularly in a big company, to say figure it out, your job is to figure it out. But that only goes so far and there's eventually a point of exasperation for people working in a company that, like, I just, there's a limit here and I'm not going to kill myself trying to do something that I can't change. And so it just, I was coming from a very different perspective as an employee in a huge company versus you at a perspective of, this is my company, I set the rules.   0:08:46.5 Travis Timmons: Yeah, can do whatever we want. And you mentioned something there. It reminds me of a quote from that first two and a half day, and it still sticks with me a decade and a half later. Almost a lot of businesses complain about the term. We have a lot of dead wood in terms of employees. And the quote, I remember Kelly sharing this, it's like, well, did you hire dead wood? Because if you did, that's on you. Or did you hire live wood and kill it and that's on you from your standpoint of, from a system. And I'm like, man, 100% true. And I hired, I had good people on our team, but we didn't have good processes to keep from killing that live wood I would say. So, yeah. And to your point on budget, yeah, I had and still do have quite a bit different budget than Pepsi. Right. So one of the other things that jumped out at me early on that made Deming very approachable and something I could engage with very easily as a small business owner was the concept of PDSAs, the Plan-Do-Study-Act.   0:09:58.5 Travis Timmons: That was a game changer for us because I was like, all right, I don't have to hire a big business consultant. We don't have to hire or pay for a bunch of software. There's very simple things we can do via the Plan, Do Study Act PDSA method that we can create systems or improve upon systems and those little experimental ways and not have to bet the farm. You know, you see a lot of businesses that try to go through these huge transformative activities, bring in a new software to fix all their problems. Things that are very expensive with no real way of understanding what their aim is, what their theory is, or even if it'll work. So, yeah, your comment on budget there, I think, is what makes Deming so approachable for any size organization, but the budget's really not a limit from the PDSA standpoint. So those were some of my key takeaways very early on on my first two and a half day Deming, it was an eye opener and just really resonated with how, how I saw the world in terms of from a human level. Just had zero idea as a physical therapist with no business training on how to implement and run a professional organization.   0:11:13.8 Travis Timmons: So as things evolved, kind of went from the kind of the term chaos to process. So after that two and a half day, I went back to our team, which was small at the time. I think we had, we were a very small company at the time. I think we had 10 employees, nine or 10 team members at the time and just presented to them like, hey, this is going to be how we run our organization. There's this thing I heard about this guy called Dr. Deming. Some of it's going to seem a little odd, but this is how we're going to do things. And just started out early on, like just with PDSA, educated them on what that meant and we're all going to work on things together. So immediately it started enforcing a culture of improvement and collaboration and voice. Rather than Travis just coming up with random ideas, we worked on them together, made the system visible and then put some experiments in place. I talked to them about operational definition. That was a new term to me and gave them some examples. We wanted every client to have a good visit with us.   0:12:29.2 Travis Timmons: What in the heck does a good visit mean? Right. We didn't have an operational definition of that, so we created an operational definition of this is a good visit at Fitness Matters. So those were some fun things early on.   0:12:42.3 Andrew Stotz: I'm curious. There's two things, the first one is for someone that really doesn't know anything about PDSA, the Plan, Do, Study, Act process or cycle. Could you give an example either of one that you did early on or one that you think is the best illustration of the application of PDSA so people can understand what you're saying, because I know it's a big part of what one of the, let's say, tools that you've used in your process.   0:13:10.1 Travis Timmons: Yeah, one of the early on ones we did that was fun to do with the team because it changed our pricing model for our private pay team. Quick example, like we do personal training and Pilates muscle activation technique. Traditionally in that world, people buy those visits one at a time or you'll buy a package of 10 or 20 at a time at a discounted rate, volume, volume pricing, right. So we had that, we had 10 pack and 20 pack of personal training. We had a 10 pack and 20 pack of Pilates, same for muscle activation technique. And we had clients that would do sometimes all three of those services, but for them to be able to optimize their discount, they had to buy a 20 pack of Pilates, a 20 pack of personal training, and then the same with muscle activation technique. So after learning some things with Dr. Deming at the two and a half day that Kelly presented at, it's like we got to be easier to do business with. Be easy to do business with and how can we do that? So our PDSA was how can we change our pricing model on the private pay services to be easier to do business with and optimize how clients can move in our system freely.   0:14:25.9 Travis Timmons: So part of the concept of PDSA is you trial it, you put your whole theory together of what you think will be true. How are you going to study it? How long are you going to try it? So we had four clients that we knew well, that we told them, we're trying this new pricing model. Would you be willing to experiment on this with us? So we didn't roll it out company wide. We just tried it with a small segment, and we called it Fitness Matters Dollars and the do the Fitness Matters Dollars package. Then the client could use that discounted bundle of money for any of our services. So the discount applied to any of the services they did rather than having to buy a bunch of different packages. So the beauty of it is you can try it small. Had we gotten it wrong, we could have thrown it out and only five clients would have experienced the error. And they knew they were part of an experiment and they were happy to help us improve. It was a big win. That was 12 years ago. That's still how we do our pricing today.   0:15:29.1 Travis Timmons: It makes it very easy for clients to optimize their health within our system and not have to spend a bunch of money with us and have a lot of monetary resistance moving about our system. So that's one example that comes to mind.   0:15:41.4 Andrew Stotz: That's a good one. And I think if you think about, let's say an accountant may say, well, but wait a minute, the cost of three different services is different and that's the idea of how do we simplify this for the client, and that's interesting. Now, did you write it down, did you go to a Whiteboard. How did you actually go through that process?   0:16:02.9 Travis Timmons: Oh, that's 13 years ago. You're testing my...   0:16:06.5 Andrew Stotz: Oh, well, you can think about a current one, too.   0:16:09.6 Travis Timmons: 12 years ago. Yeah. When we're doing a current one, we'll get together as a team. Like, we're having our annual team off-site the end of January. And we'll come up, we try to come away with three, maybe four PDSAs as a team, and we'll write it up on the whiteboard. What's the problem we're trying to solve? Another key quote I've learned from Kelly Allen over the years is "the problem named, is the problem solved." So we want to make sure we're naming the right problem first. What really is the problem? So we talk about that through our entire company so that I'm getting feedback from all pieces of the system and then we'll map it out. Sometimes we'll do fishbone charts to look where in the process are we trying to do an experiment? And then there's the PDSA kind of chart that we'll use for bigger ones so we can study it. What's our aim? What's our theory? What do we think is going to happen with this experiment? How long are we going to study it, and what's our expected outcome? So part of the PDSA magic, as you know, is what are you trying to accomplish by what method, in what time frame, and what do you think is going to happen so you can go back and test your theory after you've studied it? So, yeah, sometimes we, if it's something bigger system-wide, we put it down on paper. We have a PDF that's fillable for each new PDSA.   0:17:35.5 Andrew Stotz: And for some people listening, they may think, well, I mean, isn't that what business does? I mean like owner comes up with an idea and says, yeah, I think we could try this and see what happens. Right. And ultimately everybody's kind of poking in the dark in business. We're not given a manual nobody really knows what we're doing. What's the difference between the way that you are poking in the dark, trying to hey, let's try this, let's try that compared to the PDSA.   0:18:08.5 Travis Timmons: I don't think I learned that till my second Deming two and a half day. So the second time I went, I took some senior team members with me so we could get more eyes around what in the world is this Deming person, who is Dr. Deming? What's this System of Profound Knowledge? To answer your question, I think the realization I had that I didn't have before, kind of going down the Deming journey is I didn't view our business as an entire system. I lacked that awareness of system view versus pieces and parts view. Pre-Deming, there's a problem over here and you go chase that fire and then another problem pop up over here, and to your point like there's lots of books out there on how to solve problems or you know, you hear like there's books out there on ownership thinking. And you know, it's like, well, do you have a culture and a system and by what method do you give people the ability to have that ownership thinking? Yeah, I think that's was the big aha of looking at the entire system. Whereas previously I was looking at it in silos and only trying to solve problems when a fire arose rather than system operationally efficient, trying to get efficient and optimizing the entire system. So that was probably one of the big aha's for me. Didn't happen day one. But as I got to understand Deming more, the system view of how it all has to be working together for optimization just changes your lens totally.   0:19:51.5 Andrew Stotz: So you've talked about PDSA, you've talked about operational definitions, you've talked about systems thinking, three core principles. One last thing on PDSA is like, I wonder what percent of the total value of doing PDSA comes from doing PDSA. In other words, the actual part of forcing yourself to get people in a room to discuss what's the problem, the Fishbone diagram, think about what's our aim, what's our theory, what's our hypothesis? Let's write that down. How are we going to study that? How we know if our hypothesis was true and you know, that type of thing. And sometimes I, after listening to you, I was thinking it, I suspect that a large amount of the final benefit you get from a PDSA is really front end loaded in all the work that you do to set it up.   0:20:48.3 Travis Timmons: Yeah, yeah. Going back to your comment earlier Andrew, on when you were at Pepsi, if I heard you correctly, you didn't really have the ability to share voice or to have an impact on the system. I think you're spot on, the PDSA itself, a couple things, number one as a small business owner, you got to check your ego at the door. Your team sees stuff happening that you don't have visibility on and they're probably going to have better ideas on how to fix it than you might if you're removed from it a step or two. And then the culture of like, oh, Travis is going to listen to my ideas. I find value in that. And then when we implement a change, like nobody likes change. Right? But when you've worked on it collectively as a team and you're ready to move forward with it, that's a game changer. You're not pushing a string at that point. Everybody's leaning in because they understand they're part of the solution and you're allowing that. Where a lot of businesses are top down, command and control, that doesn't usually work very well. So yeah, I think you're spot on, Andrew.   0:22:02.5 Travis Timmons: I think that so much happens with the PDSA process from a culture and team involvement. And if you don't have that, you're going to have a hard time retaining team members, in my opinion.   0:22:16.9 Andrew Stotz: So you look like a pretty relaxed guy compared to probably what you were like many years ago when this all was going on. Maybe take us through. Okay, so you're implementing these things and what's happening, what changes are happening, what transformation is going on with you and with your organization?   0:22:36.9 Travis Timmons: Yeah, so it's a multi-year process that we went through. Still a lot of work, you know, it's not like, hey, this just solves every problem. It just changes all the lenses you look through and you have a by what method path. Here's how we are going to think about our business. So that got rid of a lot of confusion for me. I knew how we were going to go from this size business to my, we had a BHAG, Big Hairy Audacious Goal from Good to Great. We wanted to have four facilities. At the time I went through Deming, we had one. We wanted to have four facilities or more to see if we could replicate our high level of care, team member engagement, all those things. So we were working, I was working just as many hours then. It just was not frustrating, it was exciting. It was a lot of collaboration that was energizing and everything as we scaled got easier. I was not going to be able to scale our business with what I was doing because had I scaled it, the headaches would have just been out of control. The loss of revenue, like there would have just been so much inefficiency on our organization.   0:24:00.4 Travis Timmons: So I would say for that next from 2013 through 2018, we got really locked in. So we spent about, I was a little conservative at the time. I was also in Army National Guard, so had a trip across the pond and just wasn't quite at a point where I could financially roll the dice and start multiplying locations and stuff like that. But around 2018, 2019, we got to the point where the team knew Deming well. I felt like we put a lot of systems, processes in place that were replicatable and I'm like, all right, here comes a real big PDSA. We're going to go get another clinic, we're going to go do another location, and we're going to test it. So that was a big PDSA. A lot of the ones we had done up to that were small. At some point you got to go a little bigger. And we were very confident in our model. So we acquired a practice in our town and like, hey, 80% of what they do is what we do, 20% is not Deming and service lines and stuff like that. So our theory, our PDSA, was can we acquire and put Fitness Matters, culture and process in place and grow?   0:25:26.3 Travis Timmons: And we did. We were very successful with that. I had team member retention with that. You know, a lot of times when you buy out another business kind of, people head for the doors, including the owner. That owner is still working with us six years later, then we started growing. It's like, all right, here we go. We can do another one. We can do another one. Put leadership in place at each location that understand Deming. We have our processes written down. We have operational definitions written down. People know what PDSA is. If they're new to our team, it takes them about six months to figure out what all these acronyms mean. So now we're going quicker since, you know, since in the last four years, as an example, we've tripled our physical therapy volume and doubled our private pay wellness volume. And in the service line, that's fairly fast growth. Probably not fast in the IT world, but in the service line growth in a very competitive market with how physical therapy and referrals work. There aren't many private practices left out there because it's so competitive where we're thriving.   0:26:41.4 Andrew Stotz: It seems like a hard business. It seems like a hard business to scale because there's this personal aspect, there's this interaction. You know, think about the exact opposite. I don't know, let's say Instagram or whatever. There's zero personal interaction. It can scale to billions. What are the constraints to growth that you feel in your business.   0:27:03.3 Travis Timmons: So constraints are reimbursement from health insurance, referrals from physicians, because health care is consolidating. So a health care system buys up smaller organizations, physicians, and then they have physical therapy within those systems and then they're highly encouraged to refer their physical therapy in-house. So that's a big challenge for us. So we don't, we're not owned by physicians. So we have to, we have to be the best at what we do for physicians and clients to want to choose us. So one of the things Dr. Deming really big on at quality, right. You have to continually have a system that has improving quality as you grow. And the way we grow is we have our outcomes. So how well a patient does at the end of a plan of care is roughly 35% higher than national average. We're 35% above the competition because of our processes, our system, our clients, how we look at integrating our clients from the first visit, the first phone call, follow-on visits, the entire, again, thinking back to that system conversation. And I think a lot of businesses, if they haven't been exposed to Deming, they miss that very critical piece of, if your sales isn't aligned with your implementation, isn't aligned with your billing process, anywhere along that service line, going through that fishbone, if it's all not good, like we could give excellent physical therapy care, but if we have a horrible billing system, we lose clients, end of story. If we have a horrible process of answering the phone to schedule evaluations, we're out of business.   0:29:00.0 Travis Timmons: Could have the best physical therapists in the world. So, yeah, that's what it's allowed us to do from a scaling and fun standpoint. And kind of now almost 27 years in we're at a point where, one of the litmus tests I had, like, if we do this well, if we really are all-in on Deming and it's system process definitions and we have it mapped out, this should run without Travis. And I see a lot of business owners are the choke point. Like they want to be the problem solver for everything. Everything has to flow through them, slow stuff down. You're not getting all of the information from your team that could solve problems so much quicker. So one of my litmus tests early on was like, if this really works well, the business should run without me present certainly for weeks and weeks at a time. And we're there. So that's why I look Relaxed now. I didn't look this relaxed a decade ago. So, it's fun, it's fun.   0:30:11.5 Andrew Stotz: I was looking for my Out of the Crisis book, but I went online and I wanted to highlight two of the 14 points because it's something that you mentioned about improving your process and all of that. And the first one is the first point and you know, it's the first point for a reason. And number one is "create constancy of purpose towards improvement of product and service with the aim to become competitive and stay in business and provide jobs." And number five is "improve constantly and forever, the system of production and service to improve quality and productivity and thus constantly decrease costs." So how do you embody that in your business, this, because when I first read the "constancy of purpose," I originally thought it meant pick your direction and stay constant with that. But then I started to realize, no, no, it's about how are we improving our product and service.   0:31:18.9 Travis Timmons: Yeah. So if you're not evolving with, technology is everywhere. Right. So if you're not paying attention to that within how it impacts your business and constantly trying to optimize how technology interfaces with your business, you're in trouble. So, like, we're right now getting ready to, I'd say once a year we do something fairly large within technology. Next year we're going to probably be changing our documentation software because there's a newer one out there that instead of having four different softwares we have to interface with, there'll be one. So that cuts down on rework, that cuts down on learning time for a new team member. There's less resistance for clients to understand how scheduling and billing work. So I don't know if I'm answering your question, Andrew, but I think from a standpoint of, I think it was Jack Welch I heard say years ago in an interview, "there's two ways a business is going. You're either growing or you're dying." And that resonated with me, there's no sitting still because if you do, you're going to get run over. So that's always looking through, can we make it easier to schedule?   0:32:40.0 Travis Timmons: Like right now we don't offer online scheduling for physical therapy. We will in 2026. And if we don't figure that out, it could be a reason that we would eventually go out of business. So I just looked through that mindset. There's always somebody coming after you.   0:32:58.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, yeah, that's...   0:33:00.3 Travis Timmons: Complacency doesn't work.   0:33:01.3 Andrew Stotz: I like to think about when I was young and I took a break and I stood still. I was standing on the flat ground, no problem. But now with my 87 year old mother, if she goes one day, two days, three days without movement, she's going backwards and it's harder to catch back up. And I start to realize she's operating on a plane that has been slanted against her. And eventually the slant will win against all of us. But in the world of business if you think, well it's not about growing or dying, well, there's someone out there trying to take your business by providing a better product or service. And that's just the reality that actually is invigorating to know that, and as Dr. Deming said to have a great competitor is such a valuable thing. If you're just poking around and you're doing okay in market you're probably not going to improve as much. So that the focus on improvement is something that I just find really fascinating. There's another question that I have which is these days, way I look at like the job of leadership is that it's like imagine a very strong magnet ahead of you and you're constantly pulled to that magnet.   0:34:37.7 Andrew Stotz: That magnet is the average, the consensus what everybody's doing. And you can't help but feel that force. And if you don't realize that you're being affected by that force, you're just being pulled into it. And what I mean by that is if you say, well, what if we tried something different, a different way of doing something and then you go to customers, no, sorry, your competitor does this. If you don't do that, I'm not going to give you the business. And so you're naturally drawn towards the center or towards consensus, but what you're doing is trying to pull your business and yourself and your thinking and your team away from that and saying there's a different way. And how hard is that?   0:35:24.4 Travis Timmons: It's hard. You have to have a different lens. Comment earlier, the problem named is the problem solved. One of the things, I love that analogy. I've never heard it described that way. In physical therapy it's very common for a physical therapist to have two or three patients scheduled at the same time because the problem that was named by most organizations is poor arrival rate. And if you have holes in your schedule you're not getting paid. So they look at that as a revenue loss. So to answer your question, that's where our industry is. Like you got a double, triple book or you're going to have lower revenue. Well, what that does is it increases, in my opinion, increases the likelihood that people are not going to come because they're going to have a bad experience, they're going to have poor outcomes. Physicians are going to stop referring because their patients aren't getting better. So problem named is the problem solved? And we pulled, I like that magnet. I'm going to use that one. But pulled away and said, no, if we provide one on one care at a very high level and the entire system works well for the patient, they're going to show up, they're going to continue to show up.   0:36:49.0 Travis Timmons: They're going to be happy to pay for the service we're offering because it's going to be exceptional. And because they show up, they're going to get better. And because they get better, they're going to go tell their doctor and then more doctors are going to refer to us. And that's thinking much differently. So that gets to the problem name, problem solved. Or using your magnet example, we are like, physicians come and talk to us all the time. They're like, are you really only seeing the patients one-on-one? Are you really doing that? Because nobody else says they can do that. It's like, yes, we are. That's exactly how we're doing it. And that's why you're here talking to us right now. Because it's so much different. You can't, there's some things that are just immeasurable. Like Dr. Deming talks about that quite a bit. We don't have to market, we don't spend... I shouldn't say, we don't have to market. We don't spend nearly the amount of money on marketing that our competitors do because we have physicians saying, hey, what's different over there? That's invisible. Right? That's invisible.   0:37:56.9 Andrew Stotz: And they weren't saying that in the beginning, but over the time they got that...   0:38:01.4 Travis Timmons: Yeah, yeah. It's a process, but you know, like the flywheel. We use that flywheel example. And now it's like, we're having a hard time hiring enough team members to keep up with the growth. One of the other thing's, "joy in work." Dr. Deming talks about joy in work a lot. And that's to your question earlier about continual improvement and jobs. So we exist, there's a lot of burnout in healthcare. You can't hardly open a business article.   0:38:37.7 Andrew Stotz: Seems paradoxical.   0:38:40.4 Travis Timmons: But it's because two and three patients at a time burdened with administrative stuff. So we also exist because, man, it's so fun when you have a team member join you from one of those other organizations and we've had eight new team members we've hired since July. And I have what I call a fresh eyes lunch with them a month in. And every one of them has said, my spouse can't believe how much happier and more enjoyable I am to be around. If that doesn't motivate you to want to continue to grow, I don't know what does. So that's the joy in work piece that Dr. Deming talked about a lot.   0:39:24.6 Andrew Stotz: And let's now talk about one other thing, which is I was just talking, I gave a speech last night in Bangkok to some business owners and then we had a dinner out and I was explaining to them that like, there's a disease that's come from America, not from Wuhan, China, in this case. It's come America, it's spread all across Thailand. And you really have to be careful with this disease. It's a deadly disease. And I said, and particularly Thailand, where there's harmony. People enjoy working together. They want a fun environment, they want to make friends at work. It's a little, it's very different from a US work environment where it's like, go there, deliver, go home, separate lives. That's not the way Thai people see work. And the disease is, the disease of individual KPIs and saying everybody, by optimizing each individual, we are optimizing the whole. And I'm trying to get them to realize like, there's another way. And I'm curious I'm sure if you're getting people from the bigger institutions and stuff, they're being KPI'd to death. And how do you, how do you manage the idea that I don't want to optimize the individual, I want to optimize the whole system, but yet I also want employees to know they gotta do a good job. So how do you manage that?   0:41:03.2 Travis Timmons: It's hard when somebody comes, because you're right, there's a lot of PTSD. I've got an example from today. So we turned on, within our system, there's a net promoter score that can be sent out to patients automatically after their first couple visits with us. And we turn it off and on from time to time just to get the voice of the customer, right. I think Dr. Deming talks about the voice of the customer and who all. So it's like, hey, we haven't done that in a while. We're going to turn it back on. And there were several therapists that were like, wait a minute, you're scoring me? And then if I get a low score, I'm in trouble. So we have to spend a lot of time educating the team on some of that old head trash. It's like, no, this is to study the system and where we can improve either improving our operational definition, whatever it is, give the team member tools on how to handle a difficult client. But to your point, you have, people's brains are so wired in the way you just described. So part of it is we, we let them know up front, like, here's why we don't have employee of the month at Fitness Matters.   0:42:15.4 Travis Timmons: Here's why we don't have the parking lot for employee of the month at Fitness. Like, all of those rewards, how all of the negative unintended consequences that can go along with that. Like even giving an individual an award in a group setting. Like, we had a team who's one of my clinic directors, the business she came from before, they had like a WWE, like the heavyweight wrestling, big champion belt. They had one of those. And each week somebody would give the belt to whoever they thought was the best employee that week. And she didn't get it for like two months in a row. And she was crushed. She's like, people don't like me. So it's fun to talk about the negative unintended consequences of the individual reward, the individual competitions. We could talk for an hour about motivating via monetary motivation. That's probably a whole nother podcast. But to answer your question, we have to make it very known why we don't do those things. Because as much as people hate some of that stuff, they also expect it. Yeah, why don't, why don't we have employee of the month? You mean I'm not going to get in trouble if I get a low net promoter score from one patient?   0:43:34.3 Travis Timmons: It's like, no, we know we hire good people. We know you do your best job every day. They could be upset because their billing didn't go correctly. So we just need to know. So I don't know if that answers your question, but it's a big thing because you do have to still track KPIs or you're out of business. Like, you do have to know what's going on within your system to measure it. It's just that concept of we all are responsible for the output of the system and the system has to produce exceptional results.   0:44:06.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, yeah.   0:44:07.9 Travis Timmons: And we have to have a weight by what method. We have to have a system to create whether you're doing plumbing, electrical work. Like if you're going to scale a business, you have to have a repeatable product that can scale.   0:44:23.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And one of the answers to that too is if you believe 94% of the problems come from the system, then even when an employee is identified as having a bad net promoter score, then the question is, does the 94% apply in that situation? Well, generally yes. And so let's dig in. I have some people that ask me like my, one of the guys last night at this event works for a bank and they have put KPIs into everything. And he was saying, I just can't escape. But another guy was like, well, I have my own business and I can do what I want. I've implemented KPIs, but what should I do? I said the first step in disentangling yourself from this individual KPI situation is just to disconnect compensation to the KPI. So just right there, there's still incentive for the employee to do something bad for the organization to do their best. But when you remove that compensation aspect, you've really taken away a huge part of the incentive. So even if you have to keep KPIs, take away the tie to compensation and then they say, well, that's the whole reason why we're supposed to do it is have the tie to compensation.   0:45:44.5 Andrew Stotz: And I said, yes, it's a little bit of a circular references cannot be resolved.   0:45:49.7 Travis Timmons: Right. Yeah. And I think we even give examples to the team as much as we can around why we don't do those type of things. Here's what would happen. And most people have worked in organizations when you point it out to them. So again, Dr. Deming talks about making the system visible. Point it out to them. If I bonused you like you see this, this used to be a thing at car dealerships. When you're buying a car, hey, you're going to get a call to rate your experience with me. If you don't give me a 10, it's going to impact my pay. And you're like, what? So we talk about that like hey, the net promoter score. If we did the same thing here and bonused you on every 10, then you're going to be bothering your patients to fill that survey out. Or if you're afraid they're going to give you low score, you're not going to, you're going to encourage them not to do it. And then me as the owner, I'm not going to hear about system breakdowns. So to answer your, I think it's an important thing that a lot of businesses like number one, don't tie compensation to your KPIs.   0:46:58.3 Travis Timmons: Like just, it's an output of the system and then explaining it to them and giving examples over time because their brains even though they hated it, like we don't do performance reviews, annual performance review. And people hate them. And I still get asked like hey, when are you doing my annual performance review? It's like do you want to do one? Well no.   0:47:21.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. We dropped performance appraisals in 2016 in my coffee business here in Thailand and we never looked back. We didn't come up with any particular stunning replacement. We just knew it was bad and we were willing to just walk away from what was bad. I want to wrap up and just get into the... What are the, let's talk about kind of extrinsic versus intrinsic. There's some external factors that we can say this Deming implementation provided these benefits to our company and then there's this internal or intrinsic benefits that you're getting. Maybe you can go through some of those benefits of where you're at now, what you're able to do now and we'll close it on that note of kind of what's the hope for somebody that's stuck in the situation. They're the entrepreneurial seizure, they're the technician, they're great at physical therapy, they start their physical therapy business and they're just scaling chaos basically. Tell us about, give us hope.   0:48:37.8 Travis Timmons: Yeah, no, happy to, the reason I have had the opportunity to speak in a lot of different settings about Dr. Deming and the reason I do it is because it's brought so much joy to me personally and to a ever growing team. It's having a positive impact on lives and the more I can do that, that gets to the intrinsic motivation. So the joy in work, there's a lot of bad organizations out there that just suck the life out of people. So that's my intrinsic motivation at this stage of the game of if Fitness Matters is bigger, so more jobs, there's more people having a positive experience in life and our outcomes being 35% higher, our community is getting healthier. So that's the intrinsic motivation at this stage. It's fun. I know again, we're not perfect. So continuous improvement to our conversation earlier. But the intrinsic motivation is the busier Fitness Matters gets, the busier Fitness Matters gets because of high outcomes and it's positive experience for more people in life. Extrinsically, I guess that gets to community outcomes. So that's intrinsic and extrinsic. You know, extrinsically, if you get this figured out, it's very easy to scale a business.   0:50:06.0 Andrew Stotz: And tell us about your scale, where are you at or where are your averages versus national averages? You know, what have you accomplished that's driving that external factors, let's call it.   0:50:19.4 Travis Timmons: Yeah. So a couple things. One, externally, a practice like ours nationally on average is growing at 9% to 10%. We're currently clipping along at 25% to 30%. So you know, that flywheel effect and chaos is no longer there. So we have process, so it's easier to scale. The other extrinsic piece is because of our outcomes and continuing scale, we're able to negotiate better rates with our insurance companies to reinforce our strong desire to keep one-on-one care model. So Deming talks about who all is part of your system. So insurance companies are part of our system and we don't have a lot of control over them. But because our data is so powerful externally, we have been able to negotiate higher rates than most of our competitors because our data speaks for itself.   0:51:23.2 Andrew Stotz: Faster growth, the ability to negotiate better terms because you're delivering better product and service generally means higher profit margins.   0:51:34.2 Travis Timmons: Yes.   0:51:34.6 Andrew Stotz: Fast growth with higher profit margins generally means you're generating more cash and you're no longer in cash crisis all the time and you have resources to decide, okay, now we want to expand or we want to invest or whatever.   0:51:50.9 Travis Timmons: Right.   0:51:51.4 Andrew Stotz: Is that...   0:51:51.9 Travis Timmons: Yeah, the cash crunch was real those first 10 years. So yeah, to your point, when you get to the other side of that and process is a big part of that so you're having a whole counting process, but yeah, you get to that size. But yeah, the intrinsic piece, one of the reasons I talk about Deming as much as I can. I've got two sons that are in college. My hope is there's more companies in the world today than there were 10 years ago that know about Deming, because that means there's a higher likelihood that my boys will work at a Deming company. And just seeing what a lot of companies do to people, we as owners have a big responsibility, I feel, we have a big responsibility to have a positive impact on our employees. And you're, as an owner, are responsible for that, in my opinion. And if you get it right, man, is it fun to look in the mirror or sit down with a team member or their spouse and be proud of, be proud of what you built. That's at the end of the day, the intrinsic motivation.   0:52:57.9 Travis Timmons: If you can be proud of what your product is and proud of the impact you're having on your team to where you're not sucking the life out of them, but actually intrinsically motivating them. There's not much else you can accomplish in business that was worth more than that, in my opinion.   0:53:18.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, wonderful. That's a great way to end it. What's the likelihood that our children are going to be working in a Deming company? Well, that's the whole reason why we are here talking about it. So, Travis, I want to say on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute, I want to thank you for this discussion and of course, for listeners out there and viewers, remember to go to deming.org to continue your journey. This is your host, Andrew Stotz. I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, and I believe it's probably one of Travis's too people are entitled to joy in work.   0:53:56.0 Travis Timmons: Love it. Love it. Thank you, Andrew.   0:53:58.0 Andrew Stotz: Yep.

Welcome to another episode of Freedom In Five Minutes! I'm Kevin, team member here at Pro Sulum, and today we're diving deep into the lessons from "The E-Myth Revisited" that business owners STILL fail to grasp in 2025—and it's costing them everything. What You'll Learn in This Episode: The Brutal Reality: With private payrolls dropping 32,000 jobs in November 2025 (led by small business cuts), rising costs crushing operations, and business owners hitting burnout faster than ever, the E-Myth lessons have never been more relevant. Yet most entrepreneurs are STILL making the same fatal mistakes Michael Gerber warned about decades ago. The E-Myth Lessons Still Breaking Businesses:

Do you enjoy property management? It's often a thankless industry, and it's easy for property management business owners and their team members to become unhappy and burnt out. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Ashleigh Goodchild, the voice behind PM Collective, to explore what it really takes to build a property management career that you can enjoy. You'll Learn [01:06] Importance of Having Support  [08:01] Community-Led Learning for Property Managers [15:07] Structured Management vs. Random Leadership [21:36] People-Centric Property Management [32:41] Making the Invisible Visible Quotables "There's so much help available out there. And a lot of times we just don't ask as entrepreneurs." "The slowest path to growth is to do it alone." "A lot of people don't actually see what we do. And I think that's where you've got the opportunity." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Ashleigh Goodchild (00:00) Generally churn rate and loss rate for businesses can range anywhere between 15 and 30%. Our office is sitting at about 5%. we've got 1200 doors, to have that 5 % churn rate actually considered really great. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (00:05) Yeah. Welcome everybody. I am Jason Hull, the owner and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We've talked to thousands of property managers, helped them add hundreds of doors, help them increase profit, simplify operations, get themselves out of the business more and more. And we believe the good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners. and their businesses. want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. So my guest today is Ashleigh Goodchild. Welcome. She's the voice behind PM Collective, the art of property management. together, we're going to explore what it really takes to build a property management career that you can enjoy covering the balance between structured management and random leadership, how to create workplaces people actually want to stay in, and Ashleigh's vision for a more human, less transactional industry. So Ashleigh, welcome to the show. Ashleigh Goodchild (01:35) Thank you so much for having me. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (01:37) So let's give us a little bit of background on you for those that don't know you yet, that maybe you're listening. How did you get into entrepreneurism? How did you get into doing what you're doing now? Give us some of the backstory. Ashleigh Goodchild (01:52) Yeah, so I started real estate back when I was 18 and like many people just falling into it and I was placed into an office that had a business owner, one was an air hostess and one was a pilot and really had no idea of how to run the business. So at that age of 18 and not knowing any better, I just jumped straight into the business and started helping them quite a lot. And then As I went on in my career, I then started my business, SoCo Realty, when I was 23. So I've had that business for 20 years and I've had a very blessed property management and business ownership life. I do say though that when I was 23 and when I started the business, I don't think it would have mattered what I was doing. It wasn't actually about the property management. It was actually probably about business ownership that I was drawn to. And I think I always say, even if I was a hairdresser at 23, it would have been a hairdresser shop that I opened up, just happened to be working in property management. So I've been running that and I've had a very blessed property management life. I always feel a little bit guilty when people talk about the roller coaster of their property management businesses, because I don't feel like I've had that. Or if I have, I sort of feel like maybe I just didn't sweat the small stuff. And so that led me into... Jason Hull - DoorGrow (02:50) Yeah. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (03:10) running and founding PM Collective, which was bringing in a peer-to-peer mentorship and training Australia-wide where we run 200 coffee and conversations every year. And we really support each other in the industry just by that casual learning from each other. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (03:27) That's awesome. So they're getting together, hanging out with each other, sharing ideas, and you're kind of the facilitator in this. Ashleigh Goodchild (03:35) Yeah, we do it Australia wide. have loads of hosts around Australia. So other people like myself who want to give back. So it's a great opportunity for people to give back. We've actually run a couple over in the US as well. And we have just had one in New Zealand. So the idea is that it allows people in the industry who have been in for a long time, like I said, to give back to the industry and help the the younger ones that are coming in to really learn to enjoy the career as well. So it's really great. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (04:04) Yeah, you know, it's amazing how much help is available and how willing people are to help. Yeah, I'm reading a book right now by Simon Squibb, I believe is his name, something like that. And it's it's about like following your dream and having a dream. But he said he created an organization that. I guess over in the UK, but he created this organization that allowed people to either help. fun people's dreams or for people to get their dreams launched. And he said that they had way more people. He thought everybody would be wanting to get the dream and their own dream met. He said they had way more people offering to help those that had a dream. And so, and he was talking about how much help is available. So. There's so much help available out there. And a lot of times we just don't ask as entrepreneurs. know, there's this funny thing that when we start out as an entrepreneur, we've kind of come through this whole world where we're such a minority, because most people on the planet are not entrepreneurial currently. And so we get a lot of feedback that we're weird or that we're different or that we're strange. And so we learn to kind of isolate. We start to recognize, I'm different and there isn't a lot of help or support. which is kind of an inaccurate viewpoint, but we kind of view ourselves as an island. And then we start our journey as an entrepreneur and we usually think we're gonna do it all ourselves. We're gonna read the right books and watch YouTube videos and we wear it as a badge of honor. I'm gonna get this thing started and do it all alone. that's, as I say at the end of my podcast each episode, that's the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. Ashleigh Goodchild (05:40) I think as well, like we find that a lot of people are really great at their jobs. They're either, you know, great property managers, great BDMs, and they have people around them that say, you know, you're so good at what you do, you should go open up your own business. And I don't think people actually realize there is, it can be really hard to start your business. I mean, you've got the logistics side of things, but you just assume the phone's going to keep calling and start calling as soon as you're out on your own. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:02) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (06:09) And I think that that's one of the biggest things that I see people underestimate. And so to be able to give them that support and not be forced to sell their business because it's just got too stressful. I've got one of my clients where she had her own property management business when she was in her twenties. And she ended up selling it because it was just too much to handle at that age. She didn't have the support, you know, 10, 15 years ago. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:14) Yeah. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (06:36) And I remember her saying, I wish PM Collective was around because I wouldn't have sold my business. But now I can have the stamina for my business because I've got that support around me. So I think that that's where I'm seeing a really big gap. people who think, you know, people who are great at their job, which means that they think they're going to be great at business ownership, which is not always the case as well. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:57) Yeah, there's a great book on that exact subject. It's called the E-Myth, the E-Myth Revisited. And in this book, E is entrepreneur, it's entrepreneur myth. And basically the summary of the whole book is if you think you, if you've learned how to do the technician level work, you like you have learned how to bake really great cakes. The myth is that now you think, well, I could go start a business and start a bakery making cakes. But a business involves a lot more. A business involves marketing, sales, accounting, you know, a lot of different stuff that is outside the skill set of baking a cake. And so the same thing with property management. Some people are like, I've managed properties for a while, or I've done business development for a property management company, done sales for a while. And they think I could now go start a business doing this. And that's the technician level work. That's not the business ownership type of stuff. then that's where things get a little more difficult. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (07:57) read that book it's actually a really great one for newbies in the business. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (08:01) Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I love that. So how does the PM collective work? How are you getting people together? How do you facilitate this? What does a typical meetup look like? How do you make these connections? Ashleigh Goodchild (08:13) Yeah, so we very much just have hosts that reach out to us and they see a gap in their location. And then they just give me, they have to give me three dates, times and locations. And I just set them up online for them. So it's relatively easy for the host. Everyone just rocks up. It's very, very casual. They grab their own coffee, they take a seat and the host is there just to sort of welcome everyone and sort of facilitate it to a certain point. We have the groups, they can range anywhere in size between four people to 20 people. And to be honest, even the groups of four, I find are so important because I find that the intimate conversations are so much stronger in those small groups and people really open up. And the conversation could be about anything. It could be about... certain products that we're using. might be about some subscriptions. It might be about what's currently not working, what demos we've had, what problems we've had. And I find in that smaller group, people definitely open up a lot more and get that real, really good support that they need. Sometimes it's we chat on a personal level. Again, that comes down to people that are personally happy, I believe make the best. employees and their best employers. And it's really important that we look after people's personal state and having those personal conversations and those opportunities to vent, think are incredibly important in that environment as well. And then we have a big mixture. So we've got some groups where we get a lot of BDMs come along, some where it's just the solo printers, some where it's the referring partners, they sort of just all find their own vibe. But one of the biggest things that has been really important is that consistency. So knowing the for the public to know that we're going to show up every single month at this location. And we're here if and when you need us. That consistency is really important. So really casual, you don't need to buy a ticket or anything like that. And I think that really what's made them successful though is that consistency. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (10:15) Got it. So is how does the PM collective have the bandwidth to facilitate this? How do you guys make money? How does that work? Ashleigh Goodchild (10:23) So we don't, we sort of run it as a bit of a not-for-profit, even though it's not registered as a not-for-profit. So the purpose is very much community-led learning. And I guess on a personal level, I run my own business, my own real estate business. So for me, that's my bread and butter, and this is really what's considered my passion project. So this is sort of more my legacy, I guess. And, you know, I've got the time and the energy. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (10:27) Okay. Ashleigh Goodchild (10:48) to and the love to do it. So that's what I do. We have got great sponsors who help support our podcast and cover the cost for the membership and things like that. And we've got a membership base, which would be say, I guess on the smaller medium size. And over time that will grow. But for now, the support is really where it's at and we're driven by that with no need. for any strong monetary value coming through at the moment. That might change in 10 years, but for now and the last five years, it's been perfect. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (11:19) Well, mean, it sounds like the people that are really giving to this community like yourself probably have some of the healthiest businesses because the people that are in over their head don't have time to go hang out or go to lunch or to meet up with people. so, you know, that, and that, you know, that allows people to come in that maybe they're are struggling to meet and hang out with people that are in a healthier place and kind of lend them a hand up. Right. So. Ashleigh Goodchild (11:32) No. It's interesting because in Australia, we've got what we call CPD points. don't know if you've got them, where they're like compulsory development points that you've got to do to hold your registration. and our events, they are not CPD registered, which means that people don't come along because they are coming because they just have to be registered and they just have to do so many points. They come because they actually want to come along. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (11:57) Okay. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (12:12) And I think you'll find that that has made a massive difference with the vibe. Like we had an event the other night, because we sort of run the separate events as well. And, you know, everyone comes along, they're catching up, they haven't seen each other for a couple of months. And it really feels like someone's birthday party. But the important thing is that people are there because they want to, not because they're going to get a CPD point attached to it. And you really can feel that difference in the vibe. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (12:37) Got it. Okay, well, let's take, I'm gonna do a quick word from our sponsors. This will be relevant. If you are a property management business owner, you're tired of getting tangled up in numbers, KRS SmartBooks has your back. They specialize in property bookkeeping for small to mid-sized managers who'd rather focus on, well, managing. So with over 15 years of experience in real estate, accounting, they're pros in Appfolio Yardi and all the top property software. Trust them to make your monthly reports hassle free so you can get back to what really matters running your business. Head over to KRSbooks.com to book your free discovery call. And so maybe that'll help you have a little more time to get back to the property management community. All right. So back to what we were talking about, Ashleigh. I love, I love this idea. I love that you've facilitated this vehicle for everybody to get together. You just, resonate positivity and I'm sure that kind of sets the tone for the group that people are kind of attracted to. And I've been part of groups where the leaders are very positive and it's just a different category and group of people. There's a lot of people that are helpful, positive. I'm in masterminds like that. And then there's others where the leader is more kind of like a dictator cult leader and like, it's just a very different environment. And there's a lot of guilt and a lot of shame and stuff like this, right? and, I've been in some men's programs and things like that that were like that. And it's just, you know, it's a totally different environment. So you've created, and so this is really, I think a strong Testament to you. How many, how many people are involved in this throughout Australia and beyond. Ashleigh Goodchild (14:13) should know the answer to that and I don't. And I would probably say there would be around 20 hosts around Australia. So 20 people, have started having visionary leaders in each state and to help sort of help me control the states. But yeah, about 20 hosts. But then like I've got, for example, an audio summit coming up. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (14:21) Wow, OK. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (14:37) And that's got 17 leaders in Australia doing an audio summit for me. And we're doing 17 days of tips and tricks. So there is a lot of people that make up all of this, a lot of other coaches and trainers that give their time and their knowledge as well to it. So it really is a big project. in total, I'd say there's probably about a good 40, 50 people from coaches, trainers, leaders. who facilitates some sort of knowledge base for me on all these events. So pretty lucky. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (15:07) So describe to me the difference between structured management and random leadership. Ashleigh Goodchild (15:13) Yeah, so that's something that I practice inside my real estate at SoCo. And one thing that I've learned from other people and other leaders is when we do, obviously you need structured management, in terms of processes and procedures and all of that, and that's fine. But when it comes to leadership, sort of what you talking before about the dictatorship, I feel like I probably practice servant leadership a lot more. practice servant leadership at SoCo, which is the real estate, and I practice servant leadership in PM Collective. And very much I do picture myself or feel that I'm a leader from the bottom and that you just tell me what you need and I will deliver it for you. So I do that both in PM Collective and SoCo. And that's where the support comes from. The random leadership, I think, has been something that has really helped me keep long term staff. I'm known in the industry for having a long term team. anywhere between sort of seven years and 15 years average for property managers, which is great. And one of the things I would say have helped me and I have to say I haven't done this on purpose. It's just the way that I've done it. And I now I reflect back on it. I can see how it's worked. And if we were to every single year, give our team a Christmas bonus every single year, they're going to expect that. And if one year you don't do it because you can't afford it or something's changed, people are going to start getting a little bit ticked off because it's like, where's my bonus? get one every year. And I think the same goes with the Jason Hull - DoorGrow (16:52) become expected.   Ashleigh Goodchild (16:54) very much expected. And I think when we start getting, creating expectations with our team, that's when we can start getting a little bit of conflict. And I've seen it in a lot of agencies. So where I, I, I think what I think works really well is things like we might as an office randomly buy someone a coffee, or we might just randomly say, Hey, let's go out for lunch, or randomly, we'll do a Christmas bonus randomly. We might shout everyone a voucher for a massage. All of those random things mean so much more to your staff and they appreciate it so much more. Even if it was that $5 coffee or that random walk or that random time that you're giving, I just find that that doesn't set up expectations and people appreciate those little things a lot more. And like I said, it's not something that I went and said to myself, this is how I'm gonna manage my team. It's something that I just did naturally, probably because I'm a little bit scatty and I probably was, you know, not very good at keeping things consistent. But now that I look back on it and I can see that that 100 % has played a massive part in creating a really healthy long-term team. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (18:07) Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. know, yeah, giving gifts means a lot more or giving experiences or doing things means a lot more than, you know, than just a bonus that they're expecting at the end of the year. And most people aren't actually money motivated. BDMs usually probably should be a little bit and maybe entrepreneurs, but that's the mistake entrepreneurs make is that we assume everybody else likes money as much as we do. A lot of times. And so we try to bonus people or reward people or motivate people with money. And a lot of times that backfires. And because most people aren't money motivated or money driven, know entrepreneurs listening right now are like, what? That makes no sense. I don't understand it, but yeah.   Ashleigh Goodchild (18:48) I think a lot of businesses as well, they try to manage their team by textbook and you know, the textbook says, we should give people their birthdays off or a textbook says we should, you know, we should do a bonus at Christmas or whatever it might be. But I think, you know, really getting to know each person and I know who in my team values me sitting down and talking to them and asking them how their weekend was. However, if I went and did that to someone else in the team. That'd be like, you just go away. I'm trying to work here. And I, I, I, yeah, I know what, what each person needs to be happy. One thing that I found more recently is that if your team can have a hobby, that is probably the biggest thing to create a happy team and hobbies prevent burnout. And I think that when we get a lot of people in the industry where all they do is work and family, work and family, they don't have anything in between. And so like one of my girls, she loves to play golf. She really young girl, 21 years old, plays golf semi-professionally. And she had asked whether she can start having some private coaching on Tuesday afternoons. So she was going to come in a few hours early. And I was like, absolutely no problems at all. Because if I give her that Tuesday afternoon off to go play golf, there's something else that she loves. I just find that, you know, people have to have other things they love just besides, yeah, besides the work and family. And that's something that I feel like I really try to encourage with everyone in industry is find a hobby if you're feeling stressed. And you know, and a hobby is not, you know, reading a book or something like that. It's actually like playing pickleball or netball or coaching a team or it's something specific. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (20:37) Got it. OK, so you're encouraging team members to have hobbies. And that allows them to maybe have a little bit more to bring to the table in terms of energy and life, it sounds like. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (20:42) 100 % Yeah, yeah, it just allows them to enjoy enjoy work. And like I said before, you've got to have them they need to have a happy home life for them to perform well for your clients. It's really, really important. You can't, you can't have them having a tough personal life at all that's going to affect you and your clients. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (21:10) Got it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's a really good book called giftology by John Rulin. And he talks about the benefit of giving gifts, gift giving, to basically for almost as marketing or do increase referrals or to increase retention. But the same thing applies to team members. These doing these random things, sounds like a really solid idea. And then also encouraging hobbies I think could be really beneficial. So, So explain your vision for a more human and less transactional industry. Ashleigh Goodchild (21:43) So in Australia, have starting to become quite reliant on our offshore staff and our offshore team. And I'm assuming that that's everywhere. Would that be the same with your businesses? Jason Hull - DoorGrow (21:55) Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. There's a lot of people that are hiring VAs in the Philippines or Mexico for sure. Ashleigh Goodchild (22:02) Yeah, I mean, and whether it's part of your business plan or not, you know, I fully respect that. But what we've found in businesses is that by passing on the transactional work to our offshore team, and transactional, mean, collecting the rent, arranging maintenance, sending out inspection letters, you know, all of that sort of admin tasks, we're finding that that's really not where the value of a property manager or business owner is anymore. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (22:19) Mm-hmm. Ashleigh Goodchild (22:31) And so what we need to do is to move our skillset into more of a consulting role. We currently have been doing for a number of couple of years and I teach this a lot to other officers is what we call an annual investor audit. So our annual investor audits, they are 30 minute consults with every client and we are going diving straight into all the holistic side of their property because we need to make sure as a business that our clients are emotionally well and financially well. If they're emotionally and financially well, they're going to keep their investment property. The minute that they're stressed and not making money is the minute that they sell. And obviously that's not what we want in the businesses. So to do that by checking in with them, we are talking to them about any red flags we see with their tenancy with their rent or their inspections.   Jason Hull - DoorGrow (23:10) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (23:27) We're talking them through and helping them understand what level of maintenance is considered normal or excessive in their property. If they're not spending enough maintenance, we're talking to them about ideas they've got for future renovations. We're talking to them about what their mortgage rates doing, how are they feeling? Are they positively geared or negatively geared? Is there any circumstance that's coming up in the next 12 months that we should make a note of that might cause them a little bit of stress? We are... Talking about all of those things on a real conversational level and it allows us to pick up trends of what that client's plans are. Are they planning on building a portfolio? Are they planning on selling in six months? Are we going as an office to see a huge wave of clients starting to sell? Is that something we need to protect that, you know, as an asset in our business? And so when we start getting into that consultancy role, it's no different to your accountant organizing a tax planning meeting. you know, in April, for example, that's exactly what we're doing. And we are planting seeds for that client so that they're never surprised when we call them up to say, Hey, your rent's gone backwards, or you got to spend $10,000 on the property. And that has been incredible. It's not only been something that's helped our churn rate. Generally in Australia, churn rate and loss rate for businesses can range anywhere between sort of 15 and 30%. Our office is sitting at about 5%. For it so for a large, a large office with we've got 1200 doors, to have that sort of 5 % churn rate is is actually considered really great. And I do put that down to the annual investor audits. And in addition, though, it allows the business owner Jason Hull - DoorGrow (24:52) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (25:10) to take control of their asset and not to have to maintain that relationship. Because at the end of the day, I'm very passionate about that that client is my client as the business owner. And I need to keep that relationship up. And if I put all of that responsibility onto the property manager and my property manager leaves, I've got a risk that that client is going to follow the property manager. So that's a little bit of my of the importance and responsibility I take as a business owner. So they have been an incredible game changer for retention, but it's also helped uncover new business opportunities because when we've done these for our clients, we've never sort of asked them, do you have any properties? But so many clients have actually said to us, that was so good. Can you do it for my other property? And I'm like, sure. Where's your other property? and got the address and we've subsequently got the business of the because the other agencies weren't doing it. So obviously over time, more offices will start doing it. But that's just a great example of elevating the human side of property management. And we started introducing these in our business, like I said, a couple of years ago, I now teach them to other agencies around Australia. And then as soon as we can get, you know, a really good percentage of businesses, all bringing these in as just a natural part of the business, then we will that's how we see the industry elevate. And then that's just going to be considered a normal thing like checking rent arrears. And so that's really my vision to, to bring in things like that. I've been trialing, I do a lot of like mirroring in the business. So I trial things in my business first. And if it works, I will put it out to the industry. the other trial that I did was, which actually didn't work. And, it was about, I had a junior property manager and we had a lot of clients that we were losing from, from fees from owners being fee driven. And I thought to myself a little bit like a hairdresser. You've got a junior apprentice to cut your hair. You've got a senior stylist or you've got the director. And I thought to myself, I'm actually going to do a fee schedule with a junior rate. So if you want to, if you're fee driven and you want a junior to look after your property with less than one year experience, this is the fee. And if you want a senior, this is the fee. Now I thought that everybody would jump at the junior fee schedule because everyone seemed to be fee driven. What was so interesting is I did this trial for 12 months and I probably had 3%, maybe 2 % of clients actually say, I'll go with the junior fee schedule. Every single person said, thanks, but I think I'll stick with a senior. And I think that that's a great example to showcase that investors do want the experience. They want the peace of mind. And we all thought they wanted cheap fee schedules, but when given the opportunity for the cheap fee schedule with a junior, they didn't take it. So I thought that that was a really good example. Yeah, I know. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (27:49) Mm-hmm. yeah. I could talk about that for an hour. We've tested a lot of stuff on pricing. Ashleigh Goodchild (28:10) But it was just a great test to do. I trialed it, it didn't work. So I've gone to the industry and I've said, given it ago, it hasn't worked. I'm now trialing a second option with fee schedules. And hopefully that works because I just feel like the industry needs to move just from the same fee schedules we've been doing for 20 years. It really is something that needs to be done there. So that's my next mission. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (28:14) Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love the experimentation. So cool thing about my position is I get hundreds of guinea pigs. And so I do all sorts of testing. And so we could chat about some of that. We've done some fun stuff, but I love the idea of the annual investor audit. call those, we coach clients on that as well. We call those annual portfolio reviews and that's a great opportunity to get more referrals. great opportunity to get more reviews and testimonials. It's a great opportunity to create more connection with the client and to showcase what's invisible to them currently that you're actually doing work. And yeah, and it's going to significantly decrease churn. You mentioned churn maybe between on a lot of companies, maybe being between 15 to 30%. And if you're at 1200 units, I was doing math while you were talking, that would be between 180 to 360 units being lost each year. And so a lot of property managers don't pay attention to what's leaving and they think, well it's infrequent or they're selling their properties or whatever and they're not paying attention to that. They're so focused on how do I get more doors? And sometimes they're losing more doors than they're adding each year or they're just breaking even. And so they've been at the same spot for like a decade sometimes. And they're wondering, why does this feel like a grind? And they're not making progress. And sometimes you have to look at what you're losing and what's your level of service that you have there and how visible is what you're doing to your client? Because if it's not visible, they're going to assume, well, why do I even pay them? They're not doing anything. They're just collecting rent. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (30:15) Yeah, it's like, I call it a, we've got a client success manager. And I think that that's a real missing part in a lot of businesses because we've got the BDM who brings in new business. We've got the property manager who maintains it, but the client success manager actually is what I call a BDM in reverse, because if they can prove your retention, that is growth. So therefore it is still a BDM role. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (30:21) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (30:41) that you've got someone specifically for. So that's a real big missing part. And I think a lot of businesses when they don't have somebody specifically on that role. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (30:52) Yeah, I've been privy to see inside of a lot of different types of businesses and being in a lot of different masterminds. And one of the things that I've seen is that some of the most sales oriented organizations, like companies that they're focused on placing salespeople and hiring salespeople and stuff like this, they always have their best salespeople graduate to be on their client success team. is how they kind of position it. And they call that their second sales team. Because these are the people that get people to re-up or renew or continue on, or to bump up into a higher level program. so client success is your other sales team. their whole job is to decrease churn. Their whole job is to increase retention. So at DoorGrow our client success manager is my oldest daughter. And she does our client success. And she's got the personality for it. She's much more of a feeler than I am. She's much more about community than myself, right? I'm more of a logical thinker in a lot of instances. And so clients just love her. She does a great job. And so everybody should have client success. What's funny is in the property management industry, you hear the phrase property manager, but that's like this mystery sort of title that means a different thing to everybody you ask. And so for some of them, some people think their property manager is supposed to be a BDM also. I'm like, those are... probably different personality types. Some think they're the maintenance coordinator, but then they'll hire a maintenance coordinator and they call somebody else a property manager. so property managers also could be those client success people, the relationship builder. And so that's where it gets confusing is when we're, I hired a property manager. Well, okay, what are you having them do? I always have to ask because it's always different. So I don't know if you've noticed that in Australia, but. Ashleigh Goodchild (32:41) Yeah, and I think as well, like, I like what you mentioned before about how a lot of people don't actually see what we do. And I think that's where you've got the opportunity. Because I remember a long time ago, a client said to me, you know, wanting to negotiate on fees after a couple of years. And he said, you know, your job's easy, you don't, you know, the you don't have to do anything for your money. So therefore, you should reduce the fees. And I'm like, Jason Hull - DoorGrow (32:49) Yeah, it's invisible. Ashleigh Goodchild (33:07) Hold on a second, we've chosen a fantastic, perfect tenant. We do a lot in the background to make it look like we are managing it nice and easily and not creating any stress for you. Do you want me to create a problem tenant so it looks like that I'm doing work so that you can justify the fee? Because the fee is so, is reflective on you finding, it look like that we're having a very easy life. but that's taken a lot of skill and experience to do that. It's just so backwards, isn't it? That the way that they validate our fee, if we have got lots of problems and they think we're not worth our fee when we've got nothing to do and got a perfect tenant, which was the result of us putting it in the first place. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (33:34) Yeah. Yeah, I used to work in IT and one of the things I learned in doing IT and working on computers and networks is that if you make everything run perfectly, they wonder why they even pay you at all. And then I also noticed if there was a problem, they're like, why do we pay this person at all? There's now this problem with the network. so either way, couldn't win. So I learned I had to make the invisible visible. I had to tell them all the time, hey, I just updated this server. I just changed this. This has been improved. That's preventing these problems. And they're like, wow, Jason's on top of this. Jason's making everything run smooth. So I had to learn to be noisy. I worked at Hewlett Packard and I was in Boise, Idaho and I had a boss in Texas. And he would just look at our... he would message us all throughout the day through an instant message app or whatever. He would message us, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I was like, he can't see what we're doing. So I just started changing my status. I allowed you to put a little status, they use some Microsoft app, I can't remember Teams, I don't remember what it was. But I just would update it every day and I would say like throughout the day what I was working on in that moment. Updating this, working on this, doing this, and just what I was doing. And so then he started asking, what's your coworker? doing because we were a two person team that were over a big system. And he was like, what's what's what's Josh doing? Is he working? What's he? So he started to perceive that I was on top of things and working and this other person was lazy and not doing stuff. I'm like, no, he's working too. So yeah, but that's I sold, you know, we've translated that to helping clients make sure you're showcasing the invisible because they can't see it. Otherwise, you have to be noisy. And those annual reviews are a great opportunity to do that because you say Here's how many maintenance requests we've handled that you didn't have to deal with. Here's how much money has been collected. Here's the payouts that we've done to you. Here's all the stuff that we've been taking care of that's prevented you from having to deal with this. Here's how many calls we took. Here's how many tickets we handled. All these vanity metrics justify why they spend the money with you. So I love that you're reinforcing that idea. So for my clients listening. She said, and she's got 1200 doors, which is probably more than some of you. so Ashleigh, what do you feel like people are hearing your low churn rate besides the annual investor audits that you do and maybe having a client success manager. I don't, what, what do you feel like is really significantly reduced the churn rate down to 5%. I mean, that's significant in any business. Ashleigh Goodchild (36:25) Yeah, it would. You've got your audits, it would probably be I think myself being a director of the business who is 100 % active in property management and approachable is a really important word. Clients know that they can call me at any time they know that if one of my property managers is on leave, they can call me to handle anything that plays a massive part. And if I reflect on some of my clients, because we all get clients that, you know, maybe aren't happy with something or a little hiccup has happened, to know that my clients don't just silently leave and say, that happened, not happy, I'm gonna go find someone else. They always contact me first. I actually had one the other day to say, Ash, my property manager is really lovely, but I'm just feeling like I need someone with a bit more confidence. No problems at all. Let me move you to this person. The fact that they approach me first and give me the opportunity and know that they can call me to move them. I just take that with so much privilege because that doesn't happen in a lot of offices. If you're not approachable and your client would rather just leave the property, then bother coming to you because they don't think they're going to get heard. That's going to be a problem. So for me, that is massive. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (37:24) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (37:46) And then probably the final thing, I think that our values really show through, through social media and my presence on social media, the fact that they know me on a personal level, they can see that I've got kids, they can see that I've done podcasts, they can see when I win awards, and embracing our clients on our journey and allowing them to see every part of me as a human being, I think is great. We do an annual an annual drive for a not-for-profit. support DB survivors quite a lot in our business and we promote philanthropic investing. And so the fact that we bring in our clients to be involved in that process by buying their clients, their tenants a hamper for Christmas to strengthen relationships has been a fantastic PR exercise with clients saying, you know, yes, please organize my 10 Christmas hamper and we're just so thankful to be aligned with a business like yours that supports, you know, good causes. It's those little things that I've probably played the biggest part in it, in their retention and client success. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (38:49) Love it. Yeah, I love that. A lot of property managers are so focused and business owners are so focused on thinking, what, how do I get more money? How do I take more instead of like the benefit of being involved in how much trust it would create to be involved in some sort of philanthropy or charity or something that's a bit more outward focus. And, and one of things we are really big on at DoorGrow is coaching our clients on finding a, in building out their client centered mission statement is figuring out. How do you make this vision bigger so that you're having a positive impact, not just for yourself, for the business, for your team, but maybe the community at large, maybe the industry at large? And what sort of impact and change do you want to see there and making that vision bigger? Because it allows you to attract team members that are inspired by a bigger vision, allows you to attract clients that resonate and are inspired by a bigger vision. And so you get better people all around. Ashleigh Goodchild (39:48) And it gives other people the opportunity to do good. And with our annual hamper drive, we did that last year. And all we did, we aligned ourselves with a not-for-profit hamper company, which is sort of like a by-product of one of the charities. And they support women getting back into the workforce. And so not-for-profit, we emailed all our clients and we said to our landlords, listen, if you've had a great year with your tenant, we would love to arrange a hamper on your behalf. It's $88. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (39:53) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (40:16) and we'll take it from your rental income and we'll send it on behalf of you for Christmas. It's a great way to acknowledge you've had a great experience with your tenant and strengthen that relationship. And from that alone, just us doing OneDrive last year raised 14,287. And so this year we have now through PM Collective promoted that through other agencies to do the same. And I actually had an email from the CEO of the not-for-profit today and she said, Ash, I am just so excited to get these numbers back to you. We have had such a huge response from you and assitting against it. And I just can't wait to see what the figure will be because I know as an agency, we will do probably double and the fact that other agencies now will do good. It's just an example of the impact that we didn't realize we were having by giving our landlords the opportunity to do good, but then sharing that with other people to give them the opportunity for their clients to do good. It's just so wonderful on so many levels. And it's the same with our philanthropic investing. encourage owners who financially are able to rent out their home at a low market rate to a survivor of DV. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (41:19) Love it. Ashleigh Goodchild (41:29) to do it and you'll be surprised at how many people don't even know it's an option. It's not saying that it's right for every landlord, but there are so many landlords out there who have a vacant property and didn't even know that they could do this jump on board. yeah, giving those opportunities to people that didn't know that it was an option, I think is really great to see. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (41:50) Yeah, love it. mean, people want to feel good about themselves and, you know, being able to give gifts or being able to benefit others makes people feel good about themselves. And if you're giving your clients a chance to feel good about themselves, they're going to associate that with you. Yeah, that's beautiful. So, well, cool. I love all these different ideas and tips. think you've shared that. I love the idea of doing the annual portfolio reviews. love the idea of, you know, the Ashleigh Goodchild (42:04) Yeah. Yeah. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (42:18) charitable stuff, the philanthropy stuff. Love the idea of giving people a vehicle or some method to bypass the frontline staff person that they're assigned so that they can reach somebody that can maybe, if they want to complain about that, that team member or some, there's a, there's a gateway there or a vehicle there for them to do that rather than them just going, well, I guess I have to quit. I don't know. Yeah. So I love, I love these ideas. that I think anybody listening to this would benefit in decreased churn. Ashleigh Goodchild (42:40) Yeah. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (42:47) Well, Ashleigh, I appreciate you coming here on the show. How can people maybe get in touch with you or with your business or whatever you would like to share with others here in closing? Ashleigh Goodchild (42:58) Yeah, well, I mean, I'm very easy to Google. You can just Google Ashleigh Goodchild and hopefully find me there. But I am on Instagram and all the socials under PM Collective or under Ashleigh Goodchild. So I'd love to connect with anyone that finds me on those platforms. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (43:16) Perfect. All right, Ashleigh. We'll probably have to have you come talk to our clients sometime. I think that'd be fun. So, all right. Thank you, Ashleigh. Appreciate you coming here on the show. All right. So for those that are struggling in your property management business and you want to kind of get to that next level, make sure you reach out to us at doorgrow.com. We would love to facilitate or help you or see if we could help you with your business. Ashleigh Goodchild (43:21) Love them. Thanks for having me. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (43:41) If you felt stagnant for a while, also join our free Facebook, just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com And if you would like to get the best ideas and property management, join our free newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.  

Chris Tate welcomes MSP community pillar Richard Tubb for a candid conversation about his journey, the shocking announcement of his step-back from the industry, and the critical shifts MSPs must make to thrive in the age of AI.Richard shares his personal, life-long struggle with depression and the importance of open discussion around mental health within the male-dominated IT and MSP space.He recalls a pivotal moment speaking at a CompTIA (now GTIA) event where he openly discussed his challenges, noting a significant shift in the industry's willingness to engage with the topic since then.He highlights that the challenges faced by MSP owners are often the same, but the willingness to discuss them openly is finally improving.Richard details his evolution from working in corporate IT (Ernst & Young, NHS, GE Capital) where he learned about standardization, systems, and processes, to becoming a "one-man band" MSP.A major turning point was reading Michael E. Gerber's The E-Myth Revisited, which inspired him to build a business that didn't solely rely on him.The creation of the Tubbblog started as a way to share his MSP journey, offering "secret sauce" information which was groundbreaking at the time. After a life event (the passing of his father), he sold his MSP and focused on the blog, which grew into a media and advisory business.He also mentions his books, including The IT Business Owner's Survival Guide and his most recent, Business Networking for Geeks.Richard discusses the huge community response to his decision to step away from the active center of the MSP industry.This was not a snap decision but a pivot following life reflection, spurred partly by recognizing the immense pressure on business owners who manage teams and the acceleration of change due to AI.His decision allows him to focus on "fun stuff," advisory work with a select few, and continuing to write books. He aims to get to 20 books, like his hero, Carl Palachuk.Crucially, he has joined the board of 404 Stress Not Found, a non-profit mental health organization, to help support the community in this vital area.Richard delivers his final, strong words of advice on the future of the MSP:He stresses that the "fixing stuff" days are rapidly disappearing due to AI and self-repairing technology. The runway for MSPs who resist change has run out.The future role of the MSP will be closer to a business consultant or an advisor, focusing on connecting different systems (middleware concept) and helping clients understand how technology can help their businesses grow.This shift requires a different, more human-centric skill set: listening, taking a big picture view, and communicating clearly—skills that the most successful MSPs have been honing for years.A thought-provoking point is raised about the unsung contribution of content creators:AI models like ChatGPT absorb years of publicly available content (Richard's blogs, podcasts, books, etc.) to serve up answers without attributing the source.Richard asks, "Where is the motivation for people to continue giving their knowledge away and not being rewarded for it, if it's just the AI companies that serve it up?"Book: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. GerberBook: The IT Business Owner's Survival Guide by Richard TubbBook: Business Networking for Geeks by Richard TubbNon-Profit: 404 Stress Not Found (Supporting IT professionals' mental health)Richard's Blog: richardtubb.co.uk (His personal blog)Richard's Archive: tubblog.co.uk (The original Tubb Blog content archive, remaining online indefinitely)Connect with Richard on LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠here⁠ Music - https://www.purple-planet.com

In this episode of The REDX Podcast, real estate veteran Lars Hedenborg helps agents regain control of their business in a changing market. Lars—known for his proven track record of scaling real estate teams and mentoring agents—shares how to shift from chaos and uncertainty to structure and predictable growth. Listeners will learn how to build sustainable lead generation levers that produce consistent income, freedom, and long-term stability in any market.Here's what you will discover in this episode… You'll learn why relying on paid leads and portals keeps agents trapped in a cycle of dependency—and how to break free with self-owned marketing systems. You'll discover the four most effective lead gen levers to generate predictable listings using expireds, FSBOs, databases, and geo-farming. You'll uncover the mindset shift required to transition from “grinding agent” to “business owner” with time and financial freedom.JUMP TO THESE TOPICS 00:00 –

In this episode of the Grow A Small Business Podcast, host Troy Trewin interviews Andy Gwynn, founder of Three Degrees Social, based in Málaga, Spain. Andy shares his inspiring journey from being a business coach to becoming a LinkedIn marketing expert, helping small business owners generate consistent leads and engagement through powerful digital strategies. He discusses how consistency, mindset, and leveraging technology have been key to his success, along with valuable lessons learned from franchising, scaling, and adapting to change. Andy's story is a great example of resilience, innovation, and the power of building meaningful connections online. Why would you wait any longer to start living the lifestyle you signed up for? Balance your health, wealth, relationships and business growth. And focus your time and energy and make the most of this year. Let's get into it by clicking here. Troy delves into our guest's startup journey, their perception of success, industry reconsideration, and the pivotal stress point during business expansion. They discuss the joys of small business growth, vital entrepreneurial habits, and strategies for team building, encompassing wins, blunders, and invaluable advice. And a snapshot of the final five Grow A Small Business Questions: What do you think is the hardest thing in growing a small business? According to Andy Gwynn, the hardest thing in growing a small business is mastering sales and marketing. Many business owners struggle to effectively promote and sell their products or services, even when they offer great value. Andy believes that consistent marketing, clear systems, and the ability to adapt quickly are essential for sustainable growth. He also emphasizes that as a business scales, systemizing operations becomes one of the biggest challenges, requiring strong processes to support rapid expansion and maintain quality.  What's your favorite business book that has helped you the most? According to Andy Gwynn, the business book that has helped him the most is “The E-Myth Revisited” by Michael Gerber. He explains that it taught him the importance of systemizing a business so it can run efficiently without relying solely on the owner. Andy also recommends “The Business Coach” by Brad Sugars, which aligns with his coaching background, and “Rich Dad Poor Dad” by Robert Kiyosaki, for shifting the mindset from simply working in a business to building one that creates long-term wealth and investment opportunities. Are there any great podcasts or online learning resources you'd recommend to help grow a small business? According to Andy Gwynn, some of the best online learning resources for growing a small business include ChatGPT, YouTube, and the teachings of Russell Brunson, especially for improving webinars and sales strategies. He also values using platforms like LinkedIn for continuous learning and networking with experts in different industries. While Andy doesn't host his own dedicated podcast, he frequently shares insights through interviews and training content under his company, Three Degrees Social, helping business owners master LinkedIn marketing and digital growth strategies. What tool or resource would you recommend to grow a small business? According to Andy Gwynn, one of the best tools to help grow a small business is LinkedIn, especially when used strategically for sales and relationship building. He recommends using advanced LinkedIn features like Sales Navigator to identify ideal clients, automate outreach, and maintain consistent engagement. Andy also highlights the value of tools such as ChatGPT, Xero for bookkeeping, Dashlane for password management, and GoHighLevel for CRM and marketing automation. Together, these tools help small business owners save time, stay organized, and build meaningful connections that drive sustainable growth. What advice would you give yourself on day one of starting out in business? According to Andy Gwynn, the advice he would give himself on day one of starting out in business is to follow the system and get out of his own way. He admits that in the early days, he often let overconfidence and complacency lead to missed sales opportunities or inconsistent results. Andy emphasizes the importance of learning proven systems, sticking to them, and maintaining focus instead of constantly trying to reinvent the process. His key message is that success comes from discipline, structure, and trusting the process rather than relying solely on natural talent or intuition. Book a 20-minute Growth Chat with Troy Trewin to see if you qualify for our upcoming course. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your small business to new heights! Enjoyed the podcast? Please leave a review on iTunes or your preferred platform. Your feedback helps more small business owners discover our podcast and embark on their business growth journey.     Quotable quotes from our special Grow A Small Business podcast guest: Massive action times the right stuff times consistency equals results — Andy Gwynn Be militant with your time because discipline creates success — Andy Gwynn If you're totally honest with yourself and truly happy, that's real success — Andy Gwynn      

In this episode of Grow a Small Business, host Troy Trewin interviews Stu Gregor, co-founder of Four Pillars Gin, shares his journey of growing a bold idea into a global gin brand. Starting in 2013, he scaled the business to 150 team members, sold over 6M bottles worldwide, and achieved a $100M exit. Stu dives into the challenges of competing with global giants, the power of storytelling in marketing, and building a strong company culture. He also reflects on navigating crises like COVID-19 and the lessons learned along the way. This episode is packed with insights on branding, leadership, and sustainable growth. Why would you wait any longer to start living the lifestyle you signed up for? Balance your health, wealth, relationships and business growth. And focus your time and energy and make the most of this year. Let's get into it by clicking here. Troy delves into our guest's startup journey, their perception of success, industry reconsideration, and the pivotal stress point during business expansion. They discuss the joys of small business growth, vital entrepreneurial habits, and strategies for team building, encompassing wins, blunders, and invaluable advice. And a snapshot of the final five Grow A Small Business Questions: What do you think is the hardest thing in growing a small business? According to Stu Gregor, the hardest thing in growing a small business is the repetition — getting up every single day and pushing forward with the same energy and focus, even when challenges make you want to crawl under the doona and give up. What's your favorite business book that has helped you the most? Stu Gregor's favorite business book that has helped him the most is “The E-Myth Revisited” by Michael Gerber. He often recommends it to people starting a business because of its timeless lessons on building systems and processes for sustainable growth. Are there any great podcasts or online learning resources you'd recommend to help grow a small business? Stu Gregor shared that he doesn't follow specific business podcasts, but he listens to Fear and Greed, a short daily business news podcast by Sean Aylmer, to stay updated on current events. He also enjoys podcasts about politics, sports, and music, using them to learn about things outside his own expertise and broaden his perspective. What tool or resource would you recommend to grow a small business? Stu Gregor recommends finding an incredible business partner as the most valuable resource for growing a small business. He believes no one has all the skills needed to succeed alone, and a great partner can balance weaknesses, share the workload, and drive the business forward. What advice would you give yourself on day one of starting out in business? Stu Gregor would tell himself on day one to embrace the incredible journey ahead and have fun, as building a business will be one of the most exciting experiences of his life. He also advises staying fit and healthy, as the demands of entrepreneurship require energy and resilience to handle the challenges along the way. Book a 20-minute Growth Chat with Troy Trewin to see if you qualify for our upcoming course. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your small business to new heights! Enjoyed the podcast? Please leave a review on iTunes or your preferred platform. Your feedback helps more small business owners discover our podcast and embark on their business growth journey.     Quotable quotes from our special Grow A Small Business podcast guest: Great storytelling is at the heart of building a powerful brand that people truly connect with – Stu Gregor Find a business partner who complements your weaknesses and shares your vision for success – Stu Gregor Resilience is the key trait every small business owner needs to survive and thrive – Stu Gregor      

What fuels a business? It all starts with the dream. In this episode, we look at lessons from the legendary Michael E. Gerber, author of The E-Myth Revisited, who first championed the idea that entrepreneurs must cultivate their dream before anything else. From there, we explore why emotion is the spiritual energy behind every great business, movement, or mission. Without it, even brilliant ideas and top teams fall flat. With it, you attract missionaries instead of mercenaries—people who believe in your vision and help you build something that lasts. Defining a higher purpose is an overlooked advantage. Bring that spiritual dimension into your company and your people can put a small dent in the universe. --- Bring in the Spiritual Dimension Hi everyone. Today I want to share something really special. I recently had the honor on interviewing the great Michael Gerber, yes, the author of The E-Myth Revisited on my podcast. Now, Michael is close to 89 years old, but let me tell you, he's still sharp as a samurai's blade. During our conversation, Michael emphasized just how important it is for every entrepreneur to cultivate their dream. Because the dream, it fuels your passion for the business. And once it's alive, it becomes the energy behind everything else. Your role as a thinker, a storyteller, a leader, a designer, a builder, a launcher, and ultimately a grower. It really hit me. All of this is about tapping into one thing, emotion. Think about it. You can have brilliant ideas, unique assets, and a team of full of A-players. But without emotion, nothing happens. Emotion is the fuel in the tank of your business. And doesn't that sound familiar? Every great religion, every movement, every political ideology in history, what did they all do? They tapped into the spiritual power of emotion to rally people. So why would it be any different in a business? Here's the real question. Do you want mercenaries or missionaries helping you to grow your business? If it's the latter, then you need a mission that excites you and inspires your people. The good news? Every company already has a seed of a great mission inside it. At Summit OS®, we call this the Company Why™. And here's the thing: it's not about inventing it—it's about unearthing it, polishing it, and sharing it boldly. Let me give you a few powerful examples. “Liberate people from unhealthy and unpleasant tasks”. That's the 'Why' of Combi Packaging Systems. A maker of packaging machines that help people not have to climb high ladders or work in dusty and steamy places. “Facilitate people's independence and self-determination”. That's the 'Why' of RackN that manages physical server parks. “Transform people to help fulfill their potential and enjoy a better social life”. That's the 'Why' of Eos Rejuvenation, a facial plastic surgery in Los Angeles. And finally, “Help entrepreneurs reach their Ideal Lives while creating a positive impact”. That's our very own 'Why' at Summit OS Group. Defining a higher purpose is the number one missed opportunity for business owners, and yet it's one of the most powerful ways to create excitement, pride, attract top talent, and spark creativity in your business. So don't forget to bring that spiritual dimension into your company because when you do, your people will begin to put a small dent in the universe. If you'd like to dive deeper, check out SummitOS.co for more videos on this concept. And until next time, keep growing.

In this episode of The Burleson Box, Dr. Dustin Burleson sits down with Adam Witty, entrepreneur, publisher, and founder of Advantage Media and Forbes Books, to unpack how authority marketing can transform your practice and your career. Adam shares his expertise on:Why authority—not just advertising—is the ultimate differentiator in crowded marketsHow publishing a book or creating thought leadership content positions you as the go-to expert in your communityThe step-by-step process of building credibility and influence that attracts patients, opportunities, and partnershipsLessons from working with thousands of entrepreneurs, doctors, and business leaders worldwideThe mindset shift required to move from being “just another provider” to a recognized authority in your fieldWhether you're looking to elevate your brand, attract higher-quality patients, or future-proof your career with lasting credibility, this episode is full of practical strategies you can put into action.Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBooks & Concepts:The Authority Advantage by Adam Witty and Rusty Shelton – A primer for how to earn trust and become a thought leader.Authority Marketing by Adam Witty and Rusty Shelton – A framework for positioning yourself as a recognized expert.Lead the Field by Earl Nightingale – A classic on personal development and leadership.Influence by Robert Cialdini – Insights into persuasion and the psychology of trust.The Business of Expertise by David C. Baker – How to leverage specialized knowledge to build authority and attract clients.The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber – A guide to building systems and escaping the trap of working only in your business.Organizations & Projects:Advantage Media – The publishing company Adam founded to help experts become authors.Forbes Books – A publishing partnership platform for business leaders seeking visibility and credibility.Subscribe & Review:If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and subscribe to The Burleson Box on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Your support helps us bring powerful conversations like this to more listeners in healthcare leadership. ***The Burleson Box is brought to you by OrthoFi:Grow More. Worry Less. Simplify Your Practice with OrthoFi.Did you know that practices using OrthoFi start more patients and reduce financial barriers without adding complexity to their operations? With OrthoFi, you can simplify the insurance and patient financial process, streamline collections, and free up your team to focus on patient care. OrthoFi combines smart technology with patient-friendly payment solutions to help you start more treatment, improve cash flow, and deliver a better overall experience. Patients love the flexibility. Practices love the results.Take advantage of a platform built specifically for orthodontists and dental specialists—helping you manage everything from eligibility verification to automated payment processing in one easy-to-use system. Grow your starts. Increase your efficiency. And reduce the headaches of insurance and collections with OrthoFi.Want to learn more? Schedule a demo today and see how OrthoFi can help your practice thrive.Click below to learn more:OrthoFi.com*** Go Premium: Members get early access, ad-free episodes, hand-edited transcripts, exclusive study guides, special edition books each quarter, powerpoint and keynote presentations and two tickets to Dustin Burleson's Annual Leadership Retreat.http://www.theburlesonbox.com/sign-up Stay Up to Date: Sign up for The Burleson Report, our weekly newsletter that is delivered each Sunday with timeless insight for life and private practice. Sign up here:http://www.theburlesonreport.com Follow Dustin Burleson, DDS, MBA at:http://www.burlesonseminars.com

Welcome back to the Level Up and Live podcast! In this episode, your host Sean Meyers sits down with Jeremy Royster, the founder of Inferno Customs in Willis, Texas. Before building a powerhouse customization shop for trucks, Jeeps, and marine audio, Jeremy served as a firefighter and paramedic. His story is a testament to perseverance, self-awareness, and the power of pursuing a passion. On this episode, you'll learn: The Fire Inside: Discover the core values that drive Jeremy, including his refusal to give up and his mission to prove others wrong. He shares how his upbringing shaped his resilience and work ethic. From Welder to Firefighter to Entrepreneur: Jeremy shares the pivotal moment he decided to change careers from a welder to a firefighter. He explains how this path, though fulfilling, always felt like a stepping stone to something more. The Side Hustle That Became a Main Hustle: What started as a casual golf cart flipping business in his garage quickly turned into a legitimate venture, leading him to a critical crossroads and a storage unit for his work. The Power of Purpose: Jeremy discusses the difference between working for a paycheck and pursuing a passion. He explains how he transitioned from a business that felt like a "grind" to one that he's genuinely excited about every day. Art and Entrepreneurship: Learn how Jeremy views his work as a form of art. He shares the joy of transforming vehicles into custom projects and the excitement of delivering them to customers. Working on the Business, Not Just in It: Sean and Jeremy delve into the crucial shift from being a technician to becoming a leader and entrepreneur. They explore the concept from the book "The E-Myth Revisited" and discuss the importance of hiring and delegation. Failure Is Not an Option: Jeremy shares his unique perspective on failure, seeing it as an opportunity for growth rather than a final outcome. The Weight of Leadership: Jeremy opens up about the challenges of leadership and how he navigates the responsibility of leading his team, family, and customers. Tune in to hear how Jeremy transitioned from the daily grind to a career fueled by excitement and purpose. He reveals the pivotal moments, challenges, and mindset shifts that allowed him to build a successful company without sacrificing his values, relationships, or personal well-being. Jeremy's story is a powerful reminder that sometimes, the greatest successes come from pursuing what you're truly passionate about.

Mattias journeys with Rhyan Finch about building wealth and purpose beyond passive income. Discover how net worth, leadership, and perseverance create freedom, growth, and fulfillment far beyond the dream of sipping mojitos on a beach.See full article: https://www.unitedstatesrealestateinvestor.com/building-wealth-and-purpose-beyond-the-beach-with-rhyan-finch/(00:00) - Introduction to The REI Agent Podcast(00:06) - Meet Mattias: Agent and Investor(00:08) - Meet Erica: Licensed Therapist and Co-Host(00:14) - Mission of The REI Agent Podcast(00:18) - Weekly Invitation: Real Estate Insights and Inspiration(00:24) - Mattias Introduces Guest Rhyan Finch(02:20) - Rhyan Finch Shares Current Roles and Businesses(03:00) - Journey Into Real Estate: From Plumbing to Property(04:00) - Early Struggles and Lifestyle Creep Lessons(06:00) - Pursuing Purpose Over Comfort: Active vs Passive Income(09:00) - Balancing Business Building and Real Estate Investing(12:00) - The Ongoing Entrepreneurial Cycle of Growth and Exit(14:00) - Building Net Worth as the True KPI(16:00) - Vertically Integrating Businesses for Greater Margin(19:00) - Thinking Bigger: Local to National Vision(21:00) - Counting the True Costs of Expansion(23:00) - Visionary and Integrator: The Balance of Leadership(25:00) - The Baseball Story: Communication Lessons in Business(27:00) - One-on-One Communication: Fast is Slow, Slow is Fast(29:00) - Custom GPT for Business Communication Strategy(30:00) - Asking the Right Questions as a Leadership Tool(32:00) - Rhyan's Golden Nugget: Go Back to Where You Quit(34:00) - Habits, Routines, and the Power of Restarting(35:00) - Book Recommendation: Rich Dad Poor Dad and The E-Myth Revisited(38:00) - Building Businesses with SOPs and Technology(39:00) - Where to Find Rhyan Finch Online(40:00) - Closing Thoughts from Mattias and Erica(40:43) - Disclaimer: Entertainment Purposes OnlyContact Rhyan Finchhttps://www.1stclassrealestate.com/https://www.instagram.com/real_estate_rhyan/https://www.facebook.com/RhyanFinch/https://www.youtube.com/@Real_Estate_RhyanFor more elite content to help you reach your holistic goals of happiness and great success, visit http://reiagent.com

In today's episode, Dr. Killeen shares a few of his go-to book recommendations for dentists who want to grow as leaders, business owners, and thinkers. Whether you're building systems, leading your team, or tightening up your finances, these books are practical, powerful, and easy to digest. Tune in to hear why The E-Myth Revisited, Extreme Ownership, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, and Profit First should be on your shelf—and how just 10 pages a day can make a big impact.To learn more about Dr. Killeen and his new book, The Shift, or to connect with him, check out www.AddisonKilleen.com.

In this episode, hosts Todd Miller and Ryan Bell of Isaiah Industries sit down with Lawrence "Larry" Closs, a renowned leader in the home improvement industry and founder of Closs Coaching. Larry shares insights from his decades-long career, discussing the importance of people, creativity, and culture in building successful businesses. The conversation covers leadership, marketing, preparing a business for private equity, and the evolving landscape of home improvement.Key Topics & Highlights:Larry's journey: From ad agency owner to founder of multiple successful home improvement companies (New Bath, Max Home, Love Your Bath) and now executive coach.The power of people: Why finding, keeping, and motivating the right team is the foundation of business success.Creativity in business: Not just for marketing—how creative thinking applies to hiring, pay plans, and growth strategies.Building a strong company culture: Why culture “eats strategy for breakfast” and how leaders can foster it from the top down and bottom up.Leading with purpose and intentionality: The importance of aligning business goals with personal values and defining what “winning” looks like for you.Preparing for private equity: Steps to take if selling your business is the end game, including financial readiness and building a strong team.Adapting to change: Thoughts on consumer buying habits, the impact of Amazon culture, and the future role of AI in home improvement.Book recommendations: “Good to Great” by Jim Collins, “E-Myth Revisited” by Michael Gerber, and “Five Dysfunctions of a Team” by Patrick Lencioni.Rapid-fire Q&A: Leadership habits, favorite products, and personal routines.Final TakeawayLead with intention, invest in your people and systems, and always strive for a positive impact—both in business and in life.Connect with Larry OnlineLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrence-closs-976a1a12/Website: https://www.larryclosscoach.com/For more Construction Disruption, listen on Apple Podcasts or YouTubeConnect with us on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedInThis episode was produced by Isaiah Industries, Inc.Construction Disruption was recently featured in this 15 Best Podcasts for Contractors list!This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1750: Nick Loper unpacks why doing “5-star work” is about more than just delivering good results, it's about exceeding expectations in subtle yet impactful ways. This episode explores how thoughtful communication, proactive problem-solving, and consistent reliability can help you stand out, earn repeat business, and build a reputation that sells itself. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/do-5-star-work/ Quotes to ponder: "Doing 5-star work means being clear, communicative, and on time." "If the deliverable is due Friday, 5-star work means delivering Thursday with a message like 'Hey, just wanted to get this over to you early.'" "Clients don't want to manage, they want to trust you to handle things." Episode references: Fiverr: https://www.fiverr.com/ Upwork: https://www.upwork.com/ 99designs: https://99designs.com/ The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1750: Nick Loper unpacks why doing “5-star work” is about more than just delivering good results, it's about exceeding expectations in subtle yet impactful ways. This episode explores how thoughtful communication, proactive problem-solving, and consistent reliability can help you stand out, earn repeat business, and build a reputation that sells itself. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/do-5-star-work/ Quotes to ponder: "Doing 5-star work means being clear, communicative, and on time." "If the deliverable is due Friday, 5-star work means delivering Thursday with a message like 'Hey, just wanted to get this over to you early.'" "Clients don't want to manage, they want to trust you to handle things." Episode references: Fiverr: https://www.fiverr.com/ Upwork: https://www.upwork.com/ 99designs: https://99designs.com/ The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1750: Nick Loper unpacks why doing “5-star work” is about more than just delivering good results, it's about exceeding expectations in subtle yet impactful ways. This episode explores how thoughtful communication, proactive problem-solving, and consistent reliability can help you stand out, earn repeat business, and build a reputation that sells itself. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/do-5-star-work/ Quotes to ponder: "Doing 5-star work means being clear, communicative, and on time." "If the deliverable is due Friday, 5-star work means delivering Thursday with a message like 'Hey, just wanted to get this over to you early.'" "Clients don't want to manage, they want to trust you to handle things." Episode references: Fiverr: https://www.fiverr.com/ Upwork: https://www.upwork.com/ 99designs: https://99designs.com/ The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1750: Nick Loper unpacks why doing “5-star work” is about more than just delivering good results, it's about exceeding expectations in subtle yet impactful ways. This episode explores how thoughtful communication, proactive problem-solving, and consistent reliability can help you stand out, earn repeat business, and build a reputation that sells itself. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/do-5-star-work/ Quotes to ponder: "Doing 5-star work means being clear, communicative, and on time." "If the deliverable is due Friday, 5-star work means delivering Thursday with a message like 'Hey, just wanted to get this over to you early.'" "Clients don't want to manage, they want to trust you to handle things." Episode references: Fiverr: https://www.fiverr.com/ Upwork: https://www.upwork.com/ 99designs: https://99designs.com/ The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1732: Nick Loper outlines a practical 7-step framework to help aspiring entrepreneurs choose the right side hustle with clarity and confidence. By narrowing down ideas through filters like skill, interest, market demand, and scalability, listeners can avoid decision paralysis and pursue ventures that align with both personal and financial goals. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/side-hustle-idea-selection-process/ Quotes to ponder: "Every side hustle starts with an idea, but not every idea is worth starting." "I've found that some sort of decision-making framework makes the process a whole lot easier." "The more filters an idea passes through, the more confident you can be moving forward with it." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber: https://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 The Lean Startup by Eric Ries: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Start with Why by Simon Sinek: https://www.amazon.com/Start-Why-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone/dp/1591846447 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1732: Nick Loper outlines a practical 7-step framework to help aspiring entrepreneurs choose the right side hustle with clarity and confidence. By narrowing down ideas through filters like skill, interest, market demand, and scalability, listeners can avoid decision paralysis and pursue ventures that align with both personal and financial goals. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/side-hustle-idea-selection-process/ Quotes to ponder: "Every side hustle starts with an idea, but not every idea is worth starting." "I've found that some sort of decision-making framework makes the process a whole lot easier." "The more filters an idea passes through, the more confident you can be moving forward with it." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber: https://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 The Lean Startup by Eric Ries: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Start with Why by Simon Sinek: https://www.amazon.com/Start-Why-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone/dp/1591846447 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1732: Nick Loper outlines a practical 7-step framework to help aspiring entrepreneurs choose the right side hustle with clarity and confidence. By narrowing down ideas through filters like skill, interest, market demand, and scalability, listeners can avoid decision paralysis and pursue ventures that align with both personal and financial goals. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/side-hustle-idea-selection-process/ Quotes to ponder: "Every side hustle starts with an idea, but not every idea is worth starting." "I've found that some sort of decision-making framework makes the process a whole lot easier." "The more filters an idea passes through, the more confident you can be moving forward with it." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber: https://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 The Lean Startup by Eric Ries: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Start with Why by Simon Sinek: https://www.amazon.com/Start-Why-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone/dp/1591846447 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1732: Nick Loper outlines a practical 7-step framework to help aspiring entrepreneurs choose the right side hustle with clarity and confidence. By narrowing down ideas through filters like skill, interest, market demand, and scalability, listeners can avoid decision paralysis and pursue ventures that align with both personal and financial goals. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.sidehustlenation.com/side-hustle-idea-selection-process/ Quotes to ponder: "Every side hustle starts with an idea, but not every idea is worth starting." "I've found that some sort of decision-making framework makes the process a whole lot easier." "The more filters an idea passes through, the more confident you can be moving forward with it." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber: https://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 The Lean Startup by Eric Ries: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Start with Why by Simon Sinek: https://www.amazon.com/Start-Why-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone/dp/1591846447 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In our 100th episode special, we take listener questions including:How to retain capital and make smart reinvestment decisionsLife expectancy of CNC machines and why not to be a machine collectorThe blessing (and curse) of early adoptionWhat really sparked our motivation to make our own productsHow we each implemented Lean without killing moraleRaising kids while running a shop—and how to inspire the next generation of makersA look behind the curtain at our most game-changing lean hacks, and what we've “borrowed” from each otherWhy you don't need a business plan to start—and what matters moreWhether you're new to the Lean Built community or you've been with us from episode 1, thank you for listening. Here's to 100 more episodes of building freedom—one lean improvement at a time.Book mentioned: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber

On this ThrowBack Thursday, Rich gives a book review about the Entrprenurial classic - “The E-Myth Revisited”

"Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It"

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1719: Brian Tracy shares eight critical questions every business owner should continually ask to drive long-term growth and success. These thought-provoking prompts help sharpen your focus, align your strategy, and ensure you're constantly improving how you serve customers and manage resources. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.briantracy.com/blog/business-success/business-development-8-questions-you-should-never-stop-asking-as-a-business-owner-strategic-plan/ Quotes to ponder: "Clarity is the starting point of success." "Your weakest key result area sets the height of your income and your success." "The more clearly you can define your ideal customer, the more effective your marketing efforts will be." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Think and Grow Rich: https://www.amazon.com/Think-Grow-Rich-Landmark-Bestseller/dp/1585424331 The Lean Startup: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1719: Brian Tracy shares eight critical questions every business owner should continually ask to drive long-term growth and success. These thought-provoking prompts help sharpen your focus, align your strategy, and ensure you're constantly improving how you serve customers and manage resources. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.briantracy.com/blog/business-success/business-development-8-questions-you-should-never-stop-asking-as-a-business-owner-strategic-plan/ Quotes to ponder: "Clarity is the starting point of success." "Your weakest key result area sets the height of your income and your success." "The more clearly you can define your ideal customer, the more effective your marketing efforts will be." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Think and Grow Rich: https://www.amazon.com/Think-Grow-Rich-Landmark-Bestseller/dp/1585424331 The Lean Startup: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1719: Brian Tracy shares eight critical questions every business owner should continually ask to drive long-term growth and success. These thought-provoking prompts help sharpen your focus, align your strategy, and ensure you're constantly improving how you serve customers and manage resources. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.briantracy.com/blog/business-success/business-development-8-questions-you-should-never-stop-asking-as-a-business-owner-strategic-plan/ Quotes to ponder: "Clarity is the starting point of success." "Your weakest key result area sets the height of your income and your success." "The more clearly you can define your ideal customer, the more effective your marketing efforts will be." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Think and Grow Rich: https://www.amazon.com/Think-Grow-Rich-Landmark-Bestseller/dp/1585424331 The Lean Startup: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1719: Brian Tracy shares eight critical questions every business owner should continually ask to drive long-term growth and success. These thought-provoking prompts help sharpen your focus, align your strategy, and ensure you're constantly improving how you serve customers and manage resources. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.briantracy.com/blog/business-success/business-development-8-questions-you-should-never-stop-asking-as-a-business-owner-strategic-plan/ Quotes to ponder: "Clarity is the starting point of success." "Your weakest key result area sets the height of your income and your success." "The more clearly you can define your ideal customer, the more effective your marketing efforts will be." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Think and Grow Rich: https://www.amazon.com/Think-Grow-Rich-Landmark-Bestseller/dp/1585424331 The Lean Startup: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

00:00 - IntroductionWe open with coffee talk today–and sugar intake, including some beverage shortcuts. Tyler calls it cheaping out; Eddie calls it hillbilly lemonade. We also reminisce about our favorite waitress, 4'10” Miss Connie with the beehive haircut. Oh yeah, also pickle races. Poor Miss Connie.08:05 - Entrepreneurship: A Good Idea?A few weeks ago, guest Matt Aston recommended the book The E-Myth Revisited (now available in an updated version). Tyler shares that this book hit him in the teeth when he picked it up recently. We're discussing this book today because it's filled with great content for construction-related entrepreneurs. Business is hard. Each year, 627,000 businesses are started and 595,000 businesses fail. Many of those may have been active for several years, but still, it's clear that starting and running a business successfully is tough work. Author Michael E. Gerber shares his insights by telling the story of Sara, a fictional pie maker.12:46 - Initial E-Myth Takeaways Eddie shares the first bits of insight that he took from this book. Gerber distinguishes between the technician,  the manager, and the entrepreneur. These are three roles may exist in A technician is the person who can do something well. A manager the person who is good at logistics and task completion. An entrepreneur is the person who works not so much in the business and on the business. Tyler explains that many businesses are started by technicians who quickly find themselves needing to now fill all three of these roles. And since they may not have management strengths or entrepreneur strengths, their businesses often fail. Tyler and Eddie both share examples of how this pattern played out in their respective businesses, ABSI and Storybuilder. The pattern is one that will sound familiar to you if you've started your own business. As a company grows, team members are added in a less-than-strategic manner, resulting in confusion and frustration. The next step is often a soft collapse back to the point where the business owner is once again handling almost everything.   22:55 - SystemsTyler shares that his entrepreneurial journey has gone through the first part of this cycle. Tyler and Eddie discuss the smoothness of the system that makes this podcast operate and Tyler contrasts that with his business. Eddie discusses Gerbers references to Ray Kroc and what he did with McDonald's. Kroc bought a system. Gerber makes the argument that even owners of small businesses need to approach their business like a franchise in regard to team-building, systems, and training. Tyler refers to the movie Founder, which tells Kroc's story. This leads to some talk about the turn-key revolution pioneered by McDonald's. Tyler encourages business owners to check out Loom as a means of creating operational guides.32:12 - Training and More Eddie shares that one of the lessons from the book that most resonated with him was the importance of determining your primary aim. In other words, what is your life goal? If this business cannot generate that reality, then don't pursue the business. Tyler critiques this a bit, saying that the process needs to be considered as much as the primary aim. He said that the path to that end is just as important. Structuring a desired lifestyle now is as important as an entrepreneurial endgame. Eddie discusses the book's 4 tenets of strategy: organization, management, people, and marketing. Then there's a 5th-systems–that was more than we could discuss today. 36:12 - The HotelTyler and Eddie discuss Gerber's hotel storyline. Gerber recounts his experience learning about the systems that enabled this hotel to operate on such a high level. Then Gerber contrasts this hotel experience with a barbershop that provides high-quality service up front but was unable to repeat the quality of that experience over time. Tyler discusses the importance of not just first but also second, third, and fourth impressions. It's about consistently focusing on the things that are essential.  Check out the partners that make our show possible.Find Us Online: BrosPodcast.com - LinkedIn - Youtube - Instagram - Facebook - TikTok - Eddie's LinkedIn - Tyler's LinkedInIf you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!

In this episode of The Steward Chair, Gabrielle Mills, President and Founder of Sourced., shares her journey of leading with intentionality and empathy, exploring how faith, values-based leadership, and strategic delegation drive meaningful, long-term success. We discuss how fractional teams can empower small businesses, the evolving role of a founder-turned-CEO, and the balance between personal stewardship and business leadership, providing actionable takeaways for leaders committed to stewardship, integrity, and impact. Key Takeaways The power of delegation and fractional leadership to scale with integrity The personal and spiritual convictions that shaped Gabrielle’s entrepreneurial path Why focusing on people before profit builds stronger, sustainable businesses Resources Mentioned Visit https://www.getsourced.me/ Follow Gabrielle on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabriellemills Recommended reading: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber Join the ConversationThe Steward Chair is about equipping and inspiring business leaders to build organizations that stand the test of time. If this episode resonated with you, share your biggest takeaway and tag us on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/chatwithleaders/ and https://www.linkedin.com/company/end-of-the-line-productions/. Elevate your podcast, company meeting, or industry event strategies to better engage stakeholders and drive meaningful growth! Visit ChatWithLeaders.com to learn more about how we can help.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How do you scale a premium service brand in a saturated industry while maintaining quality, consistency, and culture? Building a luxury home improvement franchise may seem like a high-stakes gamble in an industry plagued by unreliable contractors and inconsistent service. But Nick Lopez, Founder & Steward of LIME Painting, has turned that challenge into a national success story—elevating home services into a premium experience and creating a business model that continues to gain momentum across the U.S. Lopez started his entrepreneurial journey out of necessity, launching a painting business in college to help pay tuition. What began as a way to stay in school became a calling when he noticed a glaring gap in the home improvement space: high-end homeowners had few reliable options for quality craftsmanship and professional service. By focusing on elite clientele and emphasizing consistency, Lopez built what has become a standout luxury home improvement franchise. LIME Painting wasn't designed to compete on price. From the start, the brand positioned itself around delivering value, not volume. Lopez realized that high-end clients didn't just want paint on walls—they wanted trust, responsiveness, and excellence. The LIME model filled that void. Clients praised the company simply for answering the phone and showing up. In an industry where the bar was low, exceeding expectations became a growth engine. Ford Saeks emphasized the value of positioning during the conversation, noting that it takes the same effort to sell a premium service as it does a budget one. That insight aligns with Lopez's strategy: rather than cut corners or race to the bottom, LIME Painting doubled down on quality, communication, and client experience. At the core of LIME's success is a business model designed for scalability. Long before awarding its first franchise, Lopez was focused on building systems. Inspired by The E-Myth Revisited, he used his college years to build out standardized processes that could be replicated across markets. This methodical approach laid the foundation for a franchise system that now spans over 100 awarded territories. The success of LIME Painting as a luxury home improvement franchise is also rooted in its culture. The company's values—Gratitude, Enthusiasm, Tenacity, Love, Integrity, Mission, Excellence, and Discipline—form the acronym GET LIME and serve as a compass for every team member and franchise partner. These values aren't tucked away in an employee handbook. They inform how the business shows up in every market and how it delivers what Lopez calls “happiness” to clients. The franchise's growth has not come without challenges. Lopez addressed current concerns around supply chain volatility, shifting immigration policies that affect labor availability, and ongoing changes in product regulations. These complexities are part of what makes the model so valuable. LIME's ability to navigate external pressures while maintaining high standards is a direct reflection of its disciplined structure and strategic foresight. Lopez credits much of LIME's operational success to recognizing his own role as a visionary. By building a team of integrators and leaders who execute the brand's mission at every level, he's ensured the company remains agile and focused. This clarity has allowed LIME to grow without losing sight of the customer or the culture that defines its brand. The customer experience isn't a marketing tagline at LIME Painting—it's a measurable standard. From branded vehicles and professional uniforms to personalized touches like delivering key lime pie after project completion, every step reinforces the brand's premium identity. Clients aren't just hiring a painter; they're engaging a team that treats their property and their time with the highest level of professionalism. LIME Painting has positioned itself as the leading luxury home improvement franchise by addressing the gaps in an industry where high-end service was once rare. The brand's growth is proof that when value is clearly communicated and consistently delivered, scaling becomes a byproduct of trust and performance. Watch the full interview on YouTube. Don't miss future episodes that feature business leaders and growth strategies from across industries. Join Fordify LIVE! Every Wednesday at 11AM Central on your favorite social platforms and catch The Business Growth Show Podcast every Thursday for a weekly dose of business growth wisdom. About Nick Lopez Nick Lopez is the Founder & Steward of LIME Painting, a national luxury home improvement franchise redefining quality and service in the home services industry. A first-generation college graduate and entrepreneur, Nick launched his first painting business at 19 and went on to create a scalable model that now serves high-end clients across the country. His passion for craftsmanship, leadership, and values-driven growth has positioned LIME Painting as a standout brand in a competitive market. For more information, visit LimePainting.com. About Ford Saeks Ford Saeks is a Business Growth Accelerator with more than two decades of experience helping organizations drive innovation, expand brand reach, and generate over a billion dollars in global sales. As President and CEO of Prime Concepts Group, Inc., Ford works with businesses of all sizes—from startups to Fortune 500s—to attract loyal customers, increase profitability, and create sustainable growth strategies. A serial entrepreneur, Ford has founded over ten companies, authored five books, earned three U.S. patents, and received multiple industry awards. He's also a recognized expert in AI prompt engineering, recently taking the stage at the prestigious “Unleash AI for Business Summit” to share insights on how ChatGPT is transforming business operations, marketing, sales, and the customer experience. Learn more at ProfitRichResults.com and watch his show at Fordify.tv.

https://youtu.be/_FFUS8tb-b4 Michael E. Gerber, author of The E-Myth Revisited and over 35 other books, is driven by a mission to transform the state of small business, entrepreneurship, and economic development worldwide. We explore Michael's origin story and the moment that sparked the E-Myth movement, including his revelation that most business owners don't understand their own businesses. He shares how his intuitive and soul-driven approach led to the creation of the first business operating system and the now-iconic principle of “working on your business, not in it.” Michael introduces his Eightfold Path Framework, built on the eight discrete personalities of an entrepreneur: The Dreamer, Thinker, Storyteller, Leader, Designer, Builder, Launcher, and Grower. We also discuss his Dreaming Room methodology, the Radical You 5-year entrepreneurial school, and how AI is enabling the creation of 199 vertical-market E-Myth books. --- Awaken Your Inner Entrepreneur with Michael E. Gerber Good day, dear listeners. So guess who I have here as my guest today. After five years, we finally got to the day when I can interview Michael E. Gerber, who is the author of the E-Myth Revisited, E-Myth Mastery and 35 other best-selling books that have sold over 5 million copies in 30 languages and 150 countries. Michael was the original mastermind behind the concept of the first business operating system back in 1986. And he coined the idea of Working On Your Business, Rather Than In Your Business, which idea touched at least 100 million entrepreneurs worldwide. So Michael is also currently the founder at age 88, almost 89. He is the founder and CEO of the Michael E. Gerber companies, owning programs including Gerber Works, Radical You, Become The One, and The Dreaming Room most recently, and he owns the rights to 35 E-Myth books. So Michael, without further ado, welcome to the Management Blueprint Podcast. I'm delighted to be here. Thank you, Steve. I'm so excited because really, I read your book back in the early 2000s. I got immediately smitten. I actually started a side business trying to implement your system without any training from you, which unfortunately was not successful. So I had to close down my side business, but we definitely implemented it in my own business. And I was just very enamored. I also got a dog-eared copy of E-Myth Mastery, which is like a big volume, and I kind of went through all the ideas there. And finally, to have you be a guest is a great honor, and it's a very exciting day. I'm delighted to be here. Thank you. So, Michael, I'm going to start with my favorite question, even though you are like a super guest here, but tell me about your personal “Why” and how it influenced your life and how it got you where you are at age 88, almost 89, still going strong, still being an entrepreneur. So, what was that “Why” that you had and have? Well, I have said it so many times, it's to transform the state of small business worldwide. To transform the state of small business worldwide. I can almost dance to it because that is what I've been working on all these years. And in the heart of that is to transform the state of entrepreneurship worldwide. And in the process of accomplishing each of those to transform the state of economic development worldwide. Because were I capable of doing the first in order to do the second, I would absolutely achieve that result, economic development worldwide.Share on X And within that resides the spirit of all that, but you know all about that. Well, I mean, I know as much as you've written down and as much as you told me, I definitely know that part. I don't know what's going on in your mind because you're still being creative. You're still developing programs, which is amazing to me. I like to be like you when I get to your age. It's definitely awesome. So tell me about the beginning. What prompted you to write the E-Myth?

What if the most powerful move you could make as a founder is to stop being the one doing it all?Today's episode explores the mindset shift that turns your business from a job into a scalable, valuable system. Bill is joined by legendary entrepreneur and author Michael E. Gerber to discuss why strategically working on the business, not in it, is the single most important shift a founder can make. From designing scripts to building systems that run without you, Michael shares what it truly means to scale with intention.Michael E. Gerber is the author of the best-selling E-Myth Revisited and with over 28 other books, Michael has spent decades helping entrepreneurs turn chaos into structure and systems. His latest creation is The Dreaming Room, an immersive experience designed to help business owners redefine their business vision and create a roadmap for success.Topics explored in this episode:(02:45) The Origin of the E-Myth*How a chance encounter led Michael to uncover the hidden flaw in small businesses.(08:05) Systems Are the Brand*Why the DNA of a brand lives in its systems and not in its logo or marketing.(11:45) From Script to Soul*How do you express the same message over and over with intention and passion?(14:15) Why McDonald's Gets It*What entrepreneurs can learn from Founder Ray Kroc about scaling through consistency.(18:20) Sarah's Pie Shop and the Power of Working On It*An impactful story about a small business owner's transformation from technician to entrepreneur.(27:40) The Dreaming Room and the Eightfold Path*The dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader, the designer, the builder, the launcher, and the grower.(31:25) The Business Is the Product*Don't let the business become your boss.*You have to create something of value in your business, or else you will go out of business.*Most Small businesses are doing the wrong type of work. (40:45) From NuCo to Scale*Why scaling means letting go of “OldCo” and creating something that lives beyond you.Thanks to Michael E. Gerber for being on the show!Learn more about The Dreaming Room: https://www.michaelegerbercompanies.comContact Michael directly: michael@michaelegerbercompanies.comConnect with Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelegerberBill Gallagher, Scaling Coach and host of the Scaling Up Business podcast, is an international business coach who works with C-Suite leaders to achieve breakthrough growth. Join Bill in the Growth Navigator Coaching Program: https://ScalingCoach.com/workshop Bill on LinkedIn: https://www.LinkedIn.com/in/BillGallBill on YouTube: https://www.YouTube.com/@BillGallagherScalingCoach Visit https://ScalingUp.com to learn more about Verne Harnish, our team of Scaling Up Coaches, and the Scaling Up Performance Platform, which includes coaching, learning, software, and summit. We share how the fastest-growing companies succeed where so many others fail. We help leadership teams with the biggest decisions

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1684: Steve Chou unpacks the tension between traditional academic success and entrepreneurial risk-taking, revealing how the habits that make straight-A students thrive in school, like rule-following and risk aversion, can stifle creativity and resilience in business. His story offers valuable insight for anyone struggling to break free from the “safe path” and embrace the messy, uncertain road of entrepreneurship. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://mywifequitherjob.com/when-getting-good-grades-and-entrepreneurship-dont-mix/ Quotes to ponder: "Being a good student is all about following the rules. But being a good entrepreneur is about breaking them." "I was taught that making mistakes was bad. But in the world of business, failure is a requirement for success." "Straight A students are often rewarded for doing what they're told, but entrepreneurs thrive by thinking differently." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1684: Steve Chou unpacks the tension between traditional academic success and entrepreneurial risk-taking, revealing how the habits that make straight-A students thrive in school, like rule-following and risk aversion, can stifle creativity and resilience in business. His story offers valuable insight for anyone struggling to break free from the “safe path” and embrace the messy, uncertain road of entrepreneurship. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://mywifequitherjob.com/when-getting-good-grades-and-entrepreneurship-dont-mix/ Quotes to ponder: "Being a good student is all about following the rules. But being a good entrepreneur is about breaking them." "I was taught that making mistakes was bad. But in the world of business, failure is a requirement for success." "Straight A students are often rewarded for doing what they're told, but entrepreneurs thrive by thinking differently." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1684: Steve Chou unpacks the tension between traditional academic success and entrepreneurial risk-taking, revealing how the habits that make straight-A students thrive in school, like rule-following and risk aversion, can stifle creativity and resilience in business. His story offers valuable insight for anyone struggling to break free from the “safe path” and embrace the messy, uncertain road of entrepreneurship. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://mywifequitherjob.com/when-getting-good-grades-and-entrepreneurship-dont-mix/ Quotes to ponder: "Being a good student is all about following the rules. But being a good entrepreneur is about breaking them." "I was taught that making mistakes was bad. But in the world of business, failure is a requirement for success." "Straight A students are often rewarded for doing what they're told, but entrepreneurs thrive by thinking differently." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1684: Steve Chou unpacks the tension between traditional academic success and entrepreneurial risk-taking, revealing how the habits that make straight-A students thrive in school, like rule-following and risk aversion, can stifle creativity and resilience in business. His story offers valuable insight for anyone struggling to break free from the “safe path” and embrace the messy, uncertain road of entrepreneurship. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://mywifequitherjob.com/when-getting-good-grades-and-entrepreneurship-dont-mix/ Quotes to ponder: "Being a good student is all about following the rules. But being a good entrepreneur is about breaking them." "I was taught that making mistakes was bad. But in the world of business, failure is a requirement for success." "Straight A students are often rewarded for doing what they're told, but entrepreneurs thrive by thinking differently." Episode references: The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Entrepreneur Gene, host Laurie Barkman sits down with Nick Hutchison, CEO and Founder of BookThinkers. They discuss Nick's entrepreneurial journey, how books changed his life, and his rebellious nature that drove him to create successful businesses. Nick shares key decisions and challenges in scaling BookThinkers, emphasizing the importance of systems and strategic growth. The conversation also touches upon personal anecdotes, Nick's passion for endurance sports, and his excitement about becoming a father. Listeners gain insights into leveraging books for personal growth and the importance of creating structured business systems.   Takeaways: Delve into books that other successful entrepreneurs recommend to gain knowledge and different perspectives. Consider books like "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki, "The E-Myth Revisited" by Michael Gerber, and "Traction" by Gino Wickman. Focus on making small, incremental improvements over time. Break your long-term goals into manageable quarters or small steps progress steadily. Invest in systematizing your business processes. Standard operating procedures (SOPs) and centralized systems can help scale operations efficiently. Consider hiring consultants or coaches who can provide expertise in specific areas, such as backend infrastructure, to streamline your business operations. Ensure your team is aligned with the new systems and processes. Change management is critical, and getting buy-in from your team is essential. Networking is powerful. Engage with people, attend events, and build relationships that can support your business growth.   Quote of the Show: “I genuinely believe at my core and in my bones that the right book at the right time can permanently change somebody's life.” - Nick Hutchison Links: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bookthinkers/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bookthinkers/  Website: https://bookthinkers.com/   

Open Forum: A new participant shared his interest in marketing and received advice on starting his business, including a book recommendation. The discussion also explored the difference between building a business and simply working, with insights on client acquisition and financial benefits. Concerns about fear and social media were addressed, encouraging authenticity over follower counts. The group also decided to reduce Atlanta gatherings to quarterly for a more focused experience. Business owners received advice on balancing their ventures with jobs, managing early-stage growth, and securing clients before structuring their businesses. Other topics included workplace reconciliation, church finances, and the role of mega-churches. Personal testimonies highlighted the power of forgiveness in marriage and workplace relationships.  Partner with Us: https://churchforentrepreneurs.com/partner Connect with Us: https://churchforentrepreneurs.com                  

Are you truly delegating, or are you just offloading tasks? Delegation is a critical skill for business leaders, entrepreneurs, and parents alike—but it's often misunderstood. In this episode of The Overlap Podcast, we break down the art of delegation and how to do it effectively. From avoiding costly mistakes to elevating your leadership, we're sharing personal stories, expert strategies, and actionable insights that will help you delegate with confidence and get real results. Whether you're running a business, managing a team, or just trying to get your kids to clean their rooms without a meltdown, this episode is packed with practical takeaways that will make your life easier. What You'll Learn in This Episode The difference between delegating and abdicating your responsibilities How poor delegation can cost you money and time (including Keith's $10,000+ mistake) A 5-Level Framework to help you delegate like a pro Why inspecting what you expect is the key to delegation success How delegation applies to parenting and setting kids up for success The hidden dangers of AI and automation creep in business expenses Key Topics Discussed The financial impact of bad delegation (Keith's book publishing nightmare) The fine line between delegation and dumping responsibilities The "I Do, We Do, You Do" framework for training employees and kids Why business owners must stay engaged without micromanaging The power of Key Risk Indicators (KRI) in smart delegation The 5 Levels of Delegation and how to build trust over time Parenting and delegation—why chores build confidence and responsibility How to avoid subscription and automation overload in your tech stack Quotes From the Episode "You can have control, or you can have growth, but you can't have both." "Inspect what you expect. People respect what you inspect." "Self-esteem is an inside job. It's not given, it's earned through responsibility." "Your personal assistant shouldn't have a personal assistant." Show Resources & Links Recommended Reading & Tools Traction by Gino Wickman – Learn how to implement the EOS framework for better delegation Make Your Bed by Admiral William H. McRaven – Simple habits that create discipline in life and business The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber – Why most small businesses fail and how to build scalable systems Sponsor Spotlight C2 Wealth Strategies – Personalized financial planning and wealth management. c2wealth.com Tree Business – Essential resources and insights for tree care professionals. treebusiness.com Barranco & Associates – Expert bookkeeping and accounting for business owners. barrancocpas.com Content Fresh – Automated marketing solutions for CRM and social media. contentfresh.com Conclusion Effective delegation is about more than offloading tasks; it's about elevating your leadership, empowering your team, and creating freedom in your life. By setting clear expectations, utilizing the right frameworks, and maintaining consistent follow-up, you can master the art of delegation. Reflect on areas where you can delegate more effectively this week. Share your experiences with us. If you found this episode valuable: Subscribe to The Overlap Podcast. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Follow us on social media @OverlapLife. Visit OverlapLife.com for additional resources and coaching. Thank you for tuning in. Remember, delegation isn't just about getting things done—it's about doing them right.

In this episode of Grow a Small Business, host Troy Trewin interviews Matthew Pollard, founder of Rapid Growth Academy. Matthew shares how he empowers introverts to thrive in business, scales his team to 12 members, and transforms professional service businesses. Discover his proven rapid growth strategies, focus on passion-driven models, and approach to achieving six-figure revenues. Gain insights into building a profitable and sustainable business while embracing your unique strengths. Tune in for actionable tips to drive business success! Why would you wait any longer to start living the lifestyle you signed up for? Balance your health, wealth, relationships and business growth. And focus your time and energy and make the most of this year. Let's get into it by clicking here. Troy delves into our guest's startup journey, their perception of success, industry reconsideration, and the pivotal stress point during business expansion. They discuss the joys of small business growth, vital entrepreneurial habits, and strategies for team building, encompassing wins, blunders, and invaluable advice. And a snapshot of the final five Grow A Small Business Questions: What do you think is the hardest thing in growing a small business? According to Matthew Pollard, the hardest thing in growing a small business is standing still long enough to get the strategy right. He emphasizes the importance of resisting the urge to act on unvalidated ideas or self-importance, as proper strategy is key to sustainable growth. What's your favourite business book that has helped you the most? Matthew Pollard's favorite business book is "The E-Myth Revisited" by Michael Gerber. He highlights how it taught him the importance of systematizing a business and focusing on what truly matters, rather than trying to do everything himself. Are there any great podcasts or online learning resources you'd recommend to help grow a small business? Matthew Pollard recommends the podcast "Smart Passive Income" by Pat Flynn as a valuable resource for growing a small business. He found it helpful for discovering strategies, tools, and insights to build an online business, though he advises being selective to avoid unnecessary expenses What tool or resource would you recommend to grow a small business? Matthew Pollard suggests project management software, such as Monday.com, as a valuable tool for growing a small business. He also emphasizes the importance of social media posting tools that automate and optimize content sharing, ensuring efficiency and a consistent online presence. What advice would you give yourself on day one of starting out in business? Matthew Pollard advises his day-one self to "stop taking yourself so seriously." He highlights the importance of focusing on having the best intentions for clients rather than striving for perfection or overthinking outcomes​. Book a 20-minute Growth Chat with Troy Trewin to see if you qualify for our upcoming course. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your small business to new heights! Enjoyed the podcast? Please leave a review on iTunes or your preferred platform. Your feedback helps more small business owners discover our podcast and embark on their business growth journey.     Quotable quotes from our special Grow A Small Business podcast guest: Success comes from creating a business that aligns with your passion and values – Matthew Pollard Building a profitable business starts with putting purpose ahead of profit – Matthew Pollard Introverts thrive when they embrace their unique strengths and work with systems – Matthew Pollard  

In a world where your potential clients are constantly inundated with marketing content, how do you create trust and ensure your property management business sticks out? In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management expert Jason Hull sits down with Dan Lievens, Founder of Share One, to talk about the benefits of collecting and utilizing client testimonial videos. You'll Learn [01:56] Getting Started as an Entrepreneur [08:41] The Impact of Social Poof and Positive Reviews [15:39] How to Ask Your Clients for Video Testimonials [24:53] Handling Objections and Retaining Clients Tweetables “Marketing is always evolving as well. Like it's not like you learn to do it once and then you're done forever.” “If I say it, no one believes it because it's my business, but if my clients say it, that's the ultimate social proof.” “The ability to be able to create human connection in any marketing or any business, I think is absolutely critical today.” “A lot of people think, "Well I have a skill in doing something. Maybe I could start a business doing that thing," but the skill is the technician-level work.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Dan: Even if you have a solid business model, like property management, for example, which is obviously needed you know, how do you communicate that? [00:00:06] Dan: How do you attract the right people? And so it's a constant exercise of being able to put yourself in a position of your customers.  [00:00:15] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the #DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management, growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. All right. My guest today is Dan Lievens. Dan, welcome to the show.  [00:01:23] Dan: So glad to be here and looking forward to meeting your amazing community here. Thank you.  [00:01:29] Jason: Awesome. So Dan and I, we met at a local mastermind in the Austin area, which is really cool because I need more friends and I was like, how can I meet some? I'm in all these different masterminds, but I'm like you're traveling all over the US I'm like, I don't get to hang out with any of these people that often. So yeah, so I joined a local one and there's some really cool people in that group, which is really awesome. [00:01:53] Jason: So Dan's one of them and Dan, why don't you give us a little bit of background on yourself as an entrepreneur and then we'll get into what you do.  [00:02:02] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So, this is actually my 12th business and in a variety of different industries from technology to health and wellness. [00:02:12] Dan: And my last big venture was opening up coworking facilities in the Philadelphia area. So I was one of the first people to open coworking facilities there and basically catering to startups and small businesses. And we very quickly became a business incubator and a business accelerator and supporting, you know, small startups and getting going right? [00:02:35] Dan: And what I noticed pretty quickly was there is a pretty high rate of failure, and the rate of failure was primarily due to not necessarily the idea of being bad but more the lack of the ability to communicate the value proposition. So that's when I kind of pivoted and said, "Hey, how can I continue growing my impact and helping these folks?" [00:02:56] Dan: That's when I started getting into marketing, really helping them be able to communicate a little bit better in terms of why they do what they do and really meeting the clients where they're at. And so we started getting into video production and pre pandemic, we had a huge video studio with audience, live audiences and all sorts of recording stuff. [00:03:18] Dan: And then the pandemic hit and that's when we kind of realized that, "Hey, at the end of the day, yes, fancy videos are good to have, but what's really going to help people move the needle is social proof. So how can we create a service for businesses to be able to leverage social proof, in other words, video or testimonials basically, to give consumers exactly what they're looking for?" [00:03:42] Dan: So if you're in a market to, you know, rent an apartment or to buy something somewhere, the first thing you do is you look at reviews and So that's how Share One began is really being able to help businesses capture legitimate social proof to grow their businesses.  [00:04:00] Jason: Yeah, awesome. Business can be tough. And like you're saying, there's a lot of good ideas out there, or there's a lot of people that think they have good ideas and you know, I've noticed not everybody tests those ideas. They just, they think the idea is so good, they're like, "everybody else has to love it." And they're surprised when nobody else has the same taste as them. You know? Other people don't love it. Or there's so many pieces that go into it kind of like the book The E Myth Revisited, a lot of people think, "Well I have a skill in doing something. Maybe I could start a business doing that thing," but the skill is the technician level work. Usually like "I can bake a cake, so maybe I should start a bakery business," you know? And then they're like, "Oh, accounting, marketing, sales, prospecting, like all the details, inventory, all the stuff besides baking a cake is where they get hung up on and they get frustrated. [00:04:59] Jason: And then there's just people that are just really bad marketers. They just don't know how to get the message across. Sometimes you run into the opposite problem though, right? Like I've had coaches and people I've worked with that were really great marketers, but their stuff wasn't super great. [00:05:14] Jason: I've had that situation happen as well. But even if they were great marketers and their stuff wasn't great, they still were making money... unfortunately. [00:05:25] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. You know, most entrepreneurs, you know, me included, we find a passion, we find a purpose and we come up with some kind of a amazing technology or whatever that may be. [00:05:35] Dan: And then, you know, our personality is just jump in and do it, you know. And it's so valuable now to really kind of take a step back and understand, you know, what the consumer wants and it goes beyond that. I think it really goes into, you know, even if you have a solid business model, like property management, for example, which is obviously needed you know, how do you communicate that? [00:05:58] Dan: How do you attract the right people? And so it's a constant exercise of being able to put yourself in a position of your customers. Right. And then even as time changes as AI comes in, which hopefully we can talk about a little bit today the landscape changes and consumer behavior patterns changes and what people are looking for changes as well. [00:06:18] Dan: So to, to have that finger on the pulse of, "Hey, what are my prospects actually thinking? What's going through their head?" Is a constant exercise that I think every single entrepreneur needs to do. And then from that perspective, it's like, okay, how do I reverse engineer what's in their mind? [00:06:34] Dan: How do I meet them where they are? Create the language and then slowly kind of invite them into the product and service that you're offering.  [00:06:41] Jason: Yeah. Marketing is always evolving as well. Like it's not like you learn to do it once and then you're done forever. Right? Like what I did to grow DoorGrow in the beginning doesn't work anymore. [00:06:53] Jason: Right? Some of the things that we were doing, like I had LinkedIn automation that was able to generate profile views. And then people would look at the profile view and go, "Oh!" And it's like "somebody viewed your profile." So they go look at mine, which I had set up like a sales page and then I was getting messages and then I would message them, "Hey..." I was getting friend requests or whatever you call it, connections on LinkedIn. [00:07:16] Jason: And then I would send them a message. "What prompted you to reach out?" And then they started clamping down on how many views you could generate a day. And like, then the automation, like, and eventually that whole mechanism pretty much died, you know, and then it was Facebook groups for a while. For a while, the Facebook algorithm was heavily aligned towards Facebook groups. [00:07:34] Jason: So that went crazy for us there was a time where it was like, you know It was just, you know, organic Google was doing its thing. We still get business through that, but you know, it's always evolving as well, which is a challenge. Now, one thing that has always worked well, always, is testimonials that has always worked well for us. [00:07:56] Jason: And so we have more testimonials. I realized this early on. If I say it, no one believes it because it's my business, but if my clients say it, that's the ultimate social proof. That's the ultimate evidence. And so gathering testimonials has always been a like a focus of us at DoorGrow and we have more video testimonials than any other coach or consultant in the property management space. [00:08:24] Jason: I mean, we've been doing this a long time, but we're also really good. But the challenge is how do you show that you're really good in a way that people believe it? Well, I just capture other people's results. So we're always having clients share their wins on our calls and then we're recording it and stuff like that. [00:08:41] Jason: So what, what prompted you to start to focus on testimonials as a business idea?  [00:08:48] Dan: So I do have, you know, pretty strong tech background. So being able to leverage the technology and human resources to be able to give businesses truly what they need. Just as an example we'll take care of the entire invitation interview process with the real producer and edit everything down for less than 200 a piece, right? [00:09:09] Dan: So our next competitors to do the same thing. are $3,000 to $5,000. So we've really, you know, grown this entire business to be able to scale and give businesses exactly what it is that they need. And as I mentioned before, over the years, it's like, yes, you can get super fancy with different things. But video testimonials today by far are the strongest piece of marketing content that you can use as you just mentioned. There's research that says there's an up to 62 percent increase in conversions. So the conversion could be a schedule, a call or schedule, a visit, or, you know, fill in the form. An increase of 62 percent if you start showing video testimonials on pages. [00:09:51] Dan: And today, recent research also shows that 82 percent of consumers have some level of suspicion towards written reviews. That includes Google, Yelp. Amazon today employs 12,000 full time employees just to track down fake reviews. So, you know, talking about market change, right? So that is definitely something that's changing. [00:10:10] Dan: And so being able to capture somebody in the comfort of their homes or their offices, truly speaking from their heart and sharing where they were before and how they met you and what your lives look like today and sharing that transformation is, you know, ultimately the most powerful thing you can do because it's believable, right? [00:10:29] Jason: Yeah, it's reality. It's not AI. It's not you know, even text testimonials, like on Amazon, there's lots of fake reviews. Like, you can have fake text. Somebody could type out anything. You got to chat GPT. "Type out a fake review that sounds credible," you know, or something like this. [00:10:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:10:47] Dan: So be super careful with that. If anybody out there is, you know, starting out and you're looking for some kind of social proof on your website or anything, the FTC had a new bill in October really cracking down on people that are using fake reviews, $27,000 fine, and just some really crazy stuff. [00:11:05] Dan: That's, you know, consumer protection.  [00:11:07] Jason: You have to be able to back it up. So, yeah, you put some text on something with a testimonial, if you have the video original of that, you're good, right? [00:11:15] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, in my company, we take a lot of care in terms of certifying that every single video that we conduct is a true human transformation. [00:11:24] Dan: So it's a critical component, but at the end of the day, it's like, you know, any listeners today. What's the first thing that you do when you go on Amazon? You look at the number of reviews, look at the number of stars. Is that like four? Is it four and a half? Or is it five? Right? [00:11:36] Dan: And then we scroll down and say, does anybody have any videos? And do these things look legitimate? Right? It's, that's the first thing that we, that anybody does when purchasing something new. And that's part of human nature, right? Dr. Robert Cialdini has a really famous bestseller book called Influence. [00:11:52] Dan: I don't know if you've read that. It's all about the psychology of persuasion. And in there, he mentions that, you know, out of 95 percent of all consumers are what they call imitators and only 5 percent are initiator. So what that means is only 5 percent of people will be open and willing to go be that first person to try something, right? [00:12:15] Dan: Yeah. 95 percent of consumers are waiting for some kind of social proof. They're imitating somebody else's results.  [00:12:22] Jason: That's why the bandwagon approach is so effective. Most people on the planet want safety and security. It's more important to them than freedom or fulfillment in life. [00:12:35] Jason: They want safety and security first. Those people are not entrepreneurs They work for entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are a small percentage of people and they value freedom and fulfillment over safety and security. We want that too, but our priority is in a different order.  [00:12:50] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, even attracting tenants or you know, bigger decisions to there's especially with the age of AI. [00:13:01] Dan: So I personally believe that we're going into next six months to a year. I mean, things are moving so quickly right now is that there is going to be a revolution or direct kind of already is of like humans against bots, right? So the ability to be able to create human connection in any marketing or any business, I think is absolutely critical today. [00:13:22] Jason: And  [00:13:22] Dan: most people aren't doing it. So you can definitely be ahead of your competition if you start leveraging and building that human connection into your marketing. And one of the easiest way of doing that is allowing your happy clients to tell a story.  [00:13:35] Jason: Yeah, I totally believe that. I think, you know, that all the interactions that AI can do are going to put a premium on humanity. Human connection and human conversation and human relationship is going to be a premium luxury product in some way. And so that's one way to set yourself apart always is to go deeper and to show care  [00:14:03] Dan: Yeah. [00:14:04] Jason: Most companies are going to leverage ai and people are going to leverage ai to go wider but it's not going to have the same depth AI doesn't have that soul. Might get there. [00:14:14] Jason: Yeah, I can see that. And that'll be important. The other challenge I've noticed though, with gathering testimonials is that if I do it, It feels a little awkward and it feels a little forced. Hey, what do you think about my business, you know? And so I think there's an advantage in what you're doing. And then like I know what it takes. Like we have somebody on my team that can edit video and can reach out and like do interviews. And like this is a difficult thing for the typical business owner to like go and do. It's like almost a whole nother thing, a whole nother business or something that we've had to incorporate over the years. And our best testimonials are the unprompted things that we randomly captured during our calls, which we do three, one hour calls weekly coaching clients, group calls. And we just. Have the whole thing recorded. So we capture stuff constantly, just unsolicited, unprompted, great things. [00:15:14] Jason: But when I have to go ask the client, "Hey, how did you like this event?" It just gets awkward and it's not as effective and they can't think of what to say. And they're like, oh yeah, it's really good. And I'm like, "no, tell me about all the problems you had and tell me about all the success we've helped you create." [00:15:31] Jason: But in that moment, they're like, "oh my gosh, I'm taking a test right now in front of a camera. I don't know what to say." And then I don't get something good. So.  [00:15:39] Dan: Yeah, there's quite an art to doing that. And the word awkward definitely sticks out like a sore thumb from the invitation, like asking your people, "Hey, would you record a video testimonial?" All the way to interviewing them as well. [00:15:53] Dan: So we take a slightly different approach. And the invitation, we have a 47 percent success rate in getting your clients to show up for an interview. And that's all about the way our white glove invitation process works. [00:16:06] Jason: This is like all of their clients that they give you their information, you reach out and you can get about half to give you a full testimonial. [00:16:16] Dan: Yeah. [00:16:17] Jason: It's an amazing stat that I'm just saying, by the way, everybody, imagine if you got half of all of your clients to give you testimonials, you would look like an amazing business.  [00:16:27] Dan: So whether you're doing it yourself or somebody else, let me just give you a couple of pointers. We never use the words "video testimonial." [00:16:34] Dan: So it's always something along the lines of, "Hey, I realized that, you know, you've been living here for a month and you seem really happy." Or, you know, "you've recently had a transformation...  [00:16:44] Jason: We've managed your property for a while.  [00:16:45] Dan: Yep. So think something along those lines and say, "Hey you know, there are a couple of really cool individuals that we're trying to bring into our community, and they're on the fence about moving here, if they could hear firsthand what it's like living here from somebody like you, I think you'd have, you know, great neighbors, right?" Something along those lines. "Would you be open to meeting with one of our producers just for a quick 15 minute chat over video, just to ask you a few questions about your stay here? And you know, your story can be truly inspiring to others. And maybe you'll meet some new neighbors," something along those lines, right? So really getting creative and the invitation don't ask for video testimonials, really about, hey, how can you as the client contribute to somebody else's wellbeing, right? That's another human nature thing that's important. And then being able to pass it off to say, "Hey, when you meet with my producer," so it becomes less of you know, it's almost like if I said, "Jason, I'm going to send a news crew to your house tomorrow to interview you."" [00:17:41] Dan: You'd be like, "Oh my God, great!" Like you feel honored. Right? So that's the kind of invitation that we're trying to create here too.  [00:17:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:47] Dan: And then honoring their time, honoring their stories and being a super, super easy, you know, real human being kind of conducting the interview and our 15 minute interview, it gets edited down to, you know, sometimes 60 seconds, maybe two minutes tops just for the golden sound bites that you need to help your your free marketing conversions. [00:18:04] Dan: So yeah, don't go out and ask for video testimonials. That's not going to go over very well. Just get creative with the invitation.  [00:18:10] Jason: Yeah. Good tip. So explain how your service works and what it is and what it's called. And like, so that people can understand the advantage that this can give them.  [00:18:21] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. [00:18:22] Dan: So we're a membership model. We are currently $189 per month to be a client of Share One. And we take care, as I mentioned before, the invitation. So we'll invite your clients. We'll remind them, answer any questions, scheduling and all that. And then basically schedule a call with one of our producers. [00:18:39] Dan: All of our producers are going to be highly trained on the specifics of what you're looking for. So your branding you know, what locations you're trying to fill, whatever that may be our producers already know going into the interview, what the soundbites are you looking for? And we'll basically coach them into answering questions. [00:18:55] Dan: So we'll help them with their cameras a little bit, their lighting. And say, Hey, why don't you finish this sentence and, you know, make sure it doesn't ramble on and on. So we're literally producers looking for these soundbites. So we'll coach them into basically saying the things that we need them to say. [00:19:09] Dan: And that 15 minute interview gets edited down. We add captions and then we deliver that back to you. And from inside of our portal, you can easily say, "Hey, this is a cool testimonial. I want to run it as an Instagram Reel or Facebook ad or anything like that. And we'll recut and reedit everything for you. [00:19:27] Dan: So we're basically completely done for you video testimonial service. Yeah, so we're affordable. We're white glove and we're extremely effective at what we do.  [00:19:38] Jason: Yeah, I mean at 189 a month, it's an absolute no brainer. Just the cost of getting people to do this stuff, or trying to go out and get cheap places to do it, like to edit some video that you capture yourself, the quality's just not going to be there. [00:19:53] Jason: I think the magic is probably in the coaching and in the right questions and in the process and then the editing, putting it together is going to make it all work.  [00:20:02] Dan: And then once you have the video testimonial, we have a couple of really cool new piece of technology that we can automatically push testimonials to certain parts of your marketing assets. [00:20:13] Dan: So we have a, like a floating widget that can sit in any corner of your website that says video testimony. As soon as you click on it, it pops up and people can start watching mobile friendly. You know, when consumers are about to take action. So whether it's a book a tour or schedule a call, there's this anxiety inside of them when they click that. So we have this really cool inline widget that can sit underneath the buy button or schedule button that basically it's just a whole bunch of videos that they can watch some quick social proof in terms of that they're making the right decision. [00:20:44] Dan: Send them over the edge. [00:20:45] Dan: Absolutely. So as a member of Share One and we'll push all those videos automatically as we collect them onto the different parts of your marketing assets.  [00:20:54] Jason: Yeah, nice. So this can be it like there's a code snippets that you can embed on your website stuff like that. Very cool Yeah, we found that conversion rates increase... we'll do on our websites that we do for clients, I call it a testimonial sandwich. So basically we have the main call to action form that's lower on the page and we'll put like maybe two testimonials above it could be videos most of the time It's like a face image and text and then below that we'll have testimonies that have been gathered from their review websites, but videos would maximize if you just had two or three videos that somebody watched before signing up with you, there's a scripture in the Bible that says "in the mouth of two or three words shall every word be established." [00:21:41] Jason: There's this thing that happens in people, if they watch two or three videos of testimonies, or even just see that you have two or three, and there's some sort of headline below them that, like, sums up what it's about, they'll just believe it. They think that this is how everything happens at your business. [00:21:56] Jason: And so the power of just having even two or three videos, now if you have a lot, and you're able to continually gather these from clients, and then maybe leverage getting them to give you positive reviews on review sites, as well, then maybe after they leave the video, there's this other thing, I think Cialdini talks about this as well, that once somebody takes a certain action, they're more likely to believe in that like a positive action towards a business are more likely to want to continue to do that. [00:22:27] Dan: Validates their decision, right? [00:22:29] Jason: Right. And so once somebody gives you a positive review like if a tenant gives you a positive review or an owner gives you positive review, what happens is they tend to have a longer lifetime value. They stay longer and then when you have a problem because something inevitably comes up. The tenant gets frustrated, or the owner gets frustrated about something. [00:22:51] Jason: They're more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt, because previously they acknowledged they had a good experience with you, and they're more likely to say, "Oh, they'll figure it out. And so, it just makes business easier. What we coach our clients on is the best time to get a testimonial or a review is at peak happiness. And for most tenants and owners, that's usually around tenant placement. That's once the tenants in place, the tenant's happiest and the owner is now happy. "Hey, I've got a tenant and they're paying rent," and that's when everybody's happiest. And so during their and owner, new client onboarding processes. [00:23:29] Jason: They could build in this connection with you guys to give you their info and you reach out and ask about their experience. And our usual script for clients when we're coaching them to do this directly is that they reach out, point out the good that they've done for them so far, and then ask them the loaded question, like how do you feel we've done so far? [00:23:51] Jason: And then they're like, "Oh, well, you just told me you did all this you took care of that leaky toilet. You did this and property is ready for me And yeah, it's been great." " What's your experience been like with ABC property management so far?" "Oh, yeah It's been great." Because you just pointed out all the good. For the owner, you're like we got a tenant in place. We got the rent collected should be hitting your bank account in the next couple days. Like how do you feel ABC property management's done so far?" [00:24:15] Jason: "Oh, yeah. You guys are great." "Awesome We love hearing that would you be willing to share that feedback with us online? Or would you be willing to share that feedback with somebody else? That would really help us out." "Oh, yeah." So, it's called the Law of Reciprocity. They want to reciprocate, because you pointed out that you did something for them. [00:24:35] Jason: Yeah, there's kind of this debt or this leverage and they're like, "yeah, sure. I'd be happy to. Awesome. I'm going to have our producers-" you say right? "Our producer reach out and they'll do a little interview with you and I think you'll really enjoy it, and we're really good at making you look good." [00:24:51] Dan: Yeah, so great point. [00:24:53] Dan: I mean, testimonials build trust ultimately, right? And trust lasts a very long time. So even being able to send testimonials to existing tenants or existing owners as a reassurance, like, you know, if an owner has been with you for years, it's like, "Hey, If they're ever doubting about leaving us, let's send them like a case study or something, you know, once every six months or so, just to kind of reaffirm that you guys are really good. [00:25:15] Dan: So, so we actually have technology. We actually have technology that can build into the CRM process to know exactly when to reach out. So that can be automated. And we also upon completion of the video testimonial, we automate the whole Google or Yelp or any other types of site reviews. Automatically for the people that we interview and then one more thing I want to touch on Jason is objections, right? [00:25:37] Dan: So video testimonials are super powerful to use to address all objections before they even come up. So if you know right off the bat that nine times out of 10 people are going to say, well, you're, you know, such and such place is cheaper or other property managers or, you know, only charge 8 percent or whatever." [00:25:55] Dan: Then using the video testimonials and you can cue your producers into collecting that as like, "Hey, initially I thought that going with X was going to be a little bit more expensive, but little did I know they took care of X, Y, Z." Right. So being able to have those little seeds or saying, "Hey, you know, yes, this apartment building is probably not the cheapest around, but I'm so glad I chose this because of XYZ. So being able to take those objections and understanding how to reverse engineer these interviews to be able to get those soundbites that are going to help you with your closing.  [00:26:24] Jason: So this is something that your producers are trained on. That is in part of your onboarding process with new clients, then it's probably to identify what actions or challenges do they tend to deal with? [00:26:36] Jason: And then as you're gathering testimonials, it becomes a goal to offset those.  [00:26:41] Dan: Absolutely. So every new client that comes on board, we do a deep dive really understanding. who their audiences are going to be, who they're trying to attract, where these video testimonials are going to be displayed where these people are coming from, essentially trying to understand like what's in that prospect's mind frame, like what are they looking at when they're watching this? So that we can really kind of, you know, hit a home run for them. [00:27:03] Jason: Yeah, I love this. I think good testimonials are more important than most companies' marketing. They're more important than most companies' websites. They're more important than most everything that a company does to try and get new business. They don't understand the impact. And if you have negative reviews, which is like the opposite, it's like a clamp on anything that you could potentially do in your entire sales pipeline, any marketing you do, anything else, if you have negative reviews. People will check you out. People want to know, can they trust you? So they're looking for indicators. Even if they heard about you word of mouth or whatever, they might still go check and they're like, "well, they have a bunch of bad reviews. Maybe we should do some more research and find another company." And so the impact of that, I think is often underestimated. You can have the ugliest website. You can have the worst branding. You can have all the other leaks that exist in businesses, but if you have great testimonials and great reviews online, people will still work with you and those will be warm leads. [00:28:08] Jason: Like they'll trust you. There's stats that suggest that people trust online reviews or testimonials as much as word of mouth from a trusted friend or advisor if the reviews are credible, unlike some on Amazon. And then, so like the conversion rate or the close rate then is really high and you don't have to have as good of a website, you don't have to be as good at sales. You don't have to be as good at marketing. Good testimonials and good feedback really solves a myriad of marketing sins.  [00:28:37] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And then it's reputation management too. So if you do have some bad reviews on Google, you can easily upload videos onto your Google business profile and you can upload positive video reviews. [00:28:49] Dan: And when somebody reads something that's written that's negative and they go to your website and there's what we call wall of love, which is basically a whole bunch of videos saying how great, you know, you are, that's a game changer.  [00:29:00] Jason: That's an outlier. That negative review is now an outlier. You know, owners know that there's going to be upset and negative tenants. [00:29:06] Jason: And that's a given in property management. But they want to know that you know how to deal with those situations and that you're making changes or improvements or whatever. So having good responses is also can be important on those reviews. So having a whole wall of proof, yeah, that overcomes a lot of challenges. [00:29:24] Jason: So well cool, Dan. I appreciate you coming on the show. I wanted to announce Dan, you're coming to DoorGrow Live. You're going to be talking at our event in May about some of this stuff, but going even deeper into how people can have an impact in a way that I think would help grow and scale their business, which was what we're all about at DoorGrow. [00:29:45] Jason: And so everybody, make sure and go and check out the details at doorgrowlive.Com. And we were bringing in some really cool experts that are going to be talking about a variety of different things. And Dan is going to be one of those. So really excited to have you at that, Dan.  [00:30:02] Jason: Super excited. Can't wait for it.  [00:30:05] Jason: Yeah, that's going to be really cool. And so if you want to take things to the next level and grow your business, this is the place to be. And can you give them a teaser of what you might be sharing at this?  [00:30:15] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So, being able to present actual case studies in terms of property management and give solid advice and examples on how you can immediately start using video testimonials and leveraging social proof to be able to increase your conversions and also teaching you how to collect them. [00:30:33] Dan: And everything to do with social proof. So I'm super excited about that.  [00:30:37] Jason: This will be really cool. So make sure to get your tickets to DoorGrow Live. Go to doorgrowlive.Com. Dan, I appreciate you coming on the show. How can people learn more about Share One and get connected with what you're doing? [00:30:51] Dan: Absolutely. So our website is www.share.one O N E. And I think, Jason, we might put something nice together for your listeners and we'll add that to the show notes.  [00:31:01] Jason: Awesome. All right, appreciate you coming and hanging out with us here on the DoorGrow show and excited to do more stuff with you in the future. [00:31:08] Jason: All right. So, if you are a property management entrepreneur and you're wanting to grow your business, add doors, reach out to us at DoorGrow. We can help you with that. So until next time, everybody to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone. [00:31:19] Jason: you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:31:46] Jason: At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

I met Daniel Andrews through someone who has been monitoring Unstoppable Mindset and who told me that Daniel would be an interesting guest. How true it was. Daniel is a South Carolina guy born and bred. He makes his home in Columbia South Carolina. While in college he took a summer job with Cutco Cutlery after his sophomore year. I guess he liked the position because he stayed with Cutco for 15 years in sales positions.   While at Cutco his mentors introduced him to the concept of personal development. As you will see, he is widely read on the subject and he also learned to put his book learning to good use.   In 2013 he made the move to becoming his own boss and developed a true entrepreneurial spirit that still drives him today. He helps clients grow their businesses by seeking real quality contacts. He tells us that his goal is to introduce clients to 72 or 120 clients per year. As Daniel points out, a network of thousands of people is not nearly as effective as a smaller network of persons with whom you develop real credible relationships.   Daniel offers many wonderful and relevant tips on relationship and network building that I believe you will find useful. And, if you want more, Daniel provides his phone number at the end of this episode so you can reach out to him.       About the Guest:   Daniel grew up in Columbia, South Carolina after his dad moved from active duty USAF to reservice duty, in 1976. He attended college in Atlanta Georgia, where he took a summer job with Cutco Cutlery after his sophomore year, in 1988. His mentors, Ray Arrona, Ken Schmidt (RIP), Earl Small, and Don Freda introduced him to the concept of personal development, and his early career (the “summer job” lasted 15 years) was influenced by the writings of Zig Ziglar, Og Mandino, and Dale Carnegie.   He moved to St. Louis, Missouri in 2003 with his first wife, and switched careers. In his second career, a mix of B2B and B2C, he was influenced by  the writings of John Addison, Harland Stonecipher, and Jeff Olsen, encouraged by his mentor Frank Aucoin.   After his move to Houston, Texas, in 2013, he decided to become a true entrepreneur, and not just an independent contractor. The E-Myth Revisited, by Michael Gerber, Quench Your Own Thirst, by Jim Koch, and Profit First by  Mike Michalowicz were instrumental in making this jump, and he's currently engrossed in Super Connector by Scott Gerber and Give & Take by Adam Grant, as he builds a business based around showing people how to identify, find, meet, and grow relationships with a handful of key referral partners, to make sure there is a steady pipeline of 72-120 warm introductions to ideal client prospects every year.   He's been married to Adina Maynard since July 5th, 2019, after he returned to his hometown in the fall of 2016.     Ways to connect with Daniel:   Other handles: DanielPAndrews@outlook.com Pinterest link: https://www.pinterest.com/danielpandrews/   Daniel Andrews' personal FB link: https://facebook.com/danthemanwiththeplan1967   Daniel Andrews LinkedIn URL: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niasoutheast/   FB link - business page https://facebook.com/danandrewsnia   My video platform https://events.revnt.io/cutting-edge-business-coaching-llc   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.     Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well and hello everyone. This is Michael Hingson, your host for unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're with us today, and really glad to have the opportunity once again to be with you and talk about all sorts of different sorts different kinds of things, as we do every week. That's why we call it an unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, because unexpected is much more fun. Keeps us all on our toes. Our guest today is Daniel, and would like to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and we really appreciate you being here. Yeah,   Daniel Andrews ** 01:58 it's good to be here. Happy to participate. And really, I'm honored by the fact that you invited me to be here. So thank you for that. Well, we   Michael Hingson ** 02:05 made it. It's It's been fun, and we, we got introduced through Noah, who, I guess, does publicity for you.   Daniel Andrews ** 02:19 He and I have talked about that at some point. I'm trying to remember the entire chain that got me to you. You know, the person introduced me to him, to her, to him, to her, to him, to her, to you, right? I need a family tree of an introductory tree on my wall over here. I just keep up with all the connections. Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 Keeps you alert and keeps you alert, you know, yeah, for sure. Well, I really am glad that you're here. And Daniel has a, I think, a great story to tell. He lives in Columbia, South Carolina, which he's really mostly called home, although he was born elsewhere, but sort of since roughly a fair, well, a fairly short time, he moved to Columbia and has been there. So I won't go into all those details. We don't need to worry about him, unless he wants to tell them, but Columbia has been home most all of his life. He did live a little ways, a little while away from Columbia, and on that, I'm sure we're going to talk about, but nevertheless, Columbia is home. I've been to Columbia and enjoy it, and I miss South Carolina sausage biscuits. So I don't know what to say, but nevertheless, one of these days, I'm sure I'll get back down there, and the people I know will make some more. But meanwhile, meanwhile, here we are. So why don't you start by telling us a little bit about kind of the early Daniel, growing up and, you know, all that, just to give people little flavor for you, sure,   Daniel Andrews ** 03:46 older brother two years older than me, exactly. I mean, within a couple days of two years, we're the only two no other siblings. Dad was an Air Force fighter pilot, and people think that must be pretty cool, and at some level, it is. But to help frame it better and give you a better detail of the experience of being the son of a fighter pilot, I encourage people that I talk to to remember the movie Top Gun. Not the second one where everybody was a good guy, they were older and more mature and, you know, but in the first one where there was the good guy that was a jerk and the bad guy that was a jerk, but they were, they were both jerks. And you know, it's a weird environment to grow up in when the biggest compliment one man can pay another is you don't suck that bad, right? That's literally the biggest compliment they're allowed to pay each other. So I grew up always thinking like I was coming up short, which has got some positive and some negative attributes. My clients love it because I tend to over deliver for what I charge them, but it kills my coach because he thinks I'm not I'm not fairly pricing myself in the marketplace, but I it made me want to be an entrepreneur, because the benchmarks are clear, right? You? In a sales environment, you know whether you're ahead or behind. You know what you got to do to catch the number one guy or gal if you're trying to beat the competition, you know how big your paycheck is going to be if you're working on, you know, commission or base, plus commission and and I really enjoyed the environment of being, I don't want to say competitive, but knowing that, you know, I was competing with myself. So many of my friends are employed by academia or small companies or big corporations, and even when they benchmark really good results, the pay, the compensation, the time off, the rewards, the advancements aren't necessarily there. So I really like the idea of having a very specific set of objectives. If I do this, then that happens. If I work this hard, I get this much money. If I achieve these results, I get, you know, moved up into into more authority and more responsibility, and that really made a world of difference for me, so that that has a lot to do with it. And as a result of that, I've opted for the self employment   Michael Hingson ** 05:54 certainly gives you lots of life experiences, doesn't it?   Daniel Andrews ** 05:58 It does. And I think, I think that people that work for other people is certainly learn, learn a lot as well. Meaning, I've not had to have extended co worker relationships or manage those over time. My first wife was fond of saying that Daniel's good in small doses, right?   Michael Hingson ** 06:15 So here we are, Ayan, so you're, you're telling us a little bit about you and growing up,   Daniel Andrews ** 06:22 sure it just you know, father is fighter pilot, right? And always pushing me to do more, be more. And that led me to choose a route of self employment, usually as a in the early parts of my career, independent contractor for other people. So I still had a structure to work in, but I knew what my objectives were. I knew how much money I would earn if I produced X result. I knew what it meant to get more responsibility, and that worked well for me. And then about eight years ago now, I decided to become a full fledged entrepreneur and really do my own thing and create some fun stuff. And it's been a fun ride in that regard, but I do love the freedom that comes from setting my own objectives on a daily basis. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:07 there's a lot to be said for that, and then not everyone can do that, because it does take a lot of discipline to be an entrepreneur, to do the things that you need to do, and know that you need to be structured to do the things that that have to be done at the same time. You do need to be able to take time off when that becomes relevant. But still, it does take a lot of discipline to be an entrepreneur and make it work successfully,   Daniel Andrews ** 07:35 right? And I don't know that I've mastered the discipline for it, but at least I'm working on my objectives and not somebody else's. The only person I'm letting down is me. You know, when I, when I, when I miss a deadline or don't execute, so that feels better to me than having the weight of somebody else's expectations on me   Michael Hingson ** 07:52 counts for something, doesn't it? I think so well. So you, you grew up in Columbia, but then you went off to college. Where'd you go to college?   Daniel Andrews ** 08:02 Down in Atlanta, Georgia, small school there. But I had a choice of three places, and each of them had offered me scholarship funds that equaled the same cost to me. IE, the packages were different, but the net cost to me in each case was going to be about the same. So rather than pick based on the financial aid or the scholarships are being offered, I picked on which city it was in. And I figured being a college kid in Atlanta, Georgia was a good move. And it turned out it was a good move. There was lots to see and do in Atlanta, Georgia, only about four hours from home. And it just it worked out to be pretty good that my other choices were Athens, Georgia, which is strictly a college town. And you know, when the summer rolls around, the place is empty. It goes down, and the other was a school and Farmville, Virginia, excuse me, the closest town is Farmville, Virginia, where the 711 closed at six. And I'm not exaggerating when I say that, yeah, not too sure. I want to be that far out in the sticks right as a 19 year old away from home for the first time, I wanted. I wanted. I wanted to have something to do with my freedom, meaning, if I was free to do what I wanted to do, I wanted to have something to do with that so and not not sit around Farmville, Virginia, wonder what was going to happen next. Yeah. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 09:19 so what did you major in in college?   Daniel Andrews ** 09:23 That question always comes up, and I'm always hesitant to answer that, because people think it has something to do with what I do today, and it does not in any way shape or stretch. I got a BS in psychology, which I tell people was heavy on the BS and light on the psychology, but at   Michael Hingson ** 09:38 the same time. And so my master's degree is in physics, although I ended up not going into physics, although I did a little bit of science work. But do you would you say, though, that even though you got a BS in psychology and you went off and you're clearly doing other things, did you learn stuff, or did that degree benefit you? And do you still. I have skills and things that you learned from that that you use today. I   Daniel Andrews ** 10:04 used to tell people that I had three facts that I used in college, that I learned in college, that I used on a daily basis, and for the longest time, I could recite all three. But nobody asked me what they were for the longest time, and I'm sure I still use all three of them, but I can only recall one, so the answer is, for the most part, no. But I think I went to college for a piece of paper. Someone else was paying for it. In this case, the school, not my parents. It was a scholarship, and I went to school not to learn anything. I went to school to get a piece of paper. I started off as a physics major, by the way, and when I got to the semester where they were trying to teach me that light is both a particle and a wave, I'm like, Yeah, we're going to need a different major, because I did not get my head around that at all. And and the degree that was had the least hurdles to get to switch majors and finish at that moment in time with psychology. So that's the route I took. I was just there for the piece of paper.   Michael Hingson ** 11:05 Physics wasn't what you wanted to do, huh?   Daniel Andrews ** 11:08 I did. But if the textbook had said light has attributes of both a particle and a wave, I might have been able to grasp it a little bit quicker. But it said light is both a particle and a wave, and it was the week of finals, and I was struggling with the intro in chapter one for the textbook, and I'm like, yep, might be time for different major at this point,   Michael Hingson ** 11:29 my master, my master's is in physics, and you mentioned and I enjoyed it, and I and I still have memories and concepts that I learned, that I use today, probably the biggest one is paying attention to detail and physics. It isn't enough to get the numeric right answer, you got to make the units work as well, which is more of a detail issue than just getting the numbers, because you can use a calculator and get numbers, but that doesn't get you the units. And so I found that skill to be extremely important and valuable as I worked through physics and went through and I actually got a master's and also a secondary teaching credential, and I thought I was going to teach, but life did take different directions, and so that's okay.   Daniel Andrews ** 12:18 Well, when you frame it that way, I will say that there is something that I learned that I that I use, maybe not in my work, but in my field of vision, and that's this, you know, lab and experimental methods taught me to ask the question, how did they ask the questions? Right? What was the structure of the test, the experiment, the the data collection right? Because you can do an awful lot of things. For example, they have found that if a doctor says to a patient, we have a chance to do surgery, there's a 10% chance of success, meaning that you'll live, they get a better up to uptake than if they say there's a 90% chance that you'll die. Yeah, it's the same information, but you always have to look at the way the questions are framed. Polls are notorious for this right data collection from my days in Cutco, I read a study and I put quotes around it right? A study that said that wooden cutting boards retain less bacteria than plastic cutting boards or polypropylene polyurethane, which is clearly blatantly wrong if you're treating your cutting boards correctly. And I looked into it, and they simply wiped the surface and then waited a day and measured bacteria count? Well, if you don't put it what you can dishwasher a plastic cutting board and sterilize it, right? Why would you simply wipe the surface? In the case of the wood, the bacteria was no longer at the surface. It had sunk into the woods. So there's not as much on the surface. I'm like, oh, but it's still there. It's just down in the wood. You have to literally look at the way these tests are done. And I guess the wooden cutting board industry paid for that study, because I can't imagine anybody else that would would a care and B make the argument that a wooden cutting board was better than a plastic one for sanitation reasons,   Michael Hingson ** 14:13 because it's clearly all it's all sales. And of course, that brings up the fact that you get that kind of knowledge honestly, because when you were a sophomore, you got a summer job with Cutco.   Daniel Andrews ** 14:24 I did, yeah, and I remember 3030, what is that? 36 years ago, now having to explain what Cutco was, but Cutco has been around for so long in America that most American households have at least some Cutco on them at this point. So I find most people already know and understand, but it was a direct sales job. It was not structured the way an MLM or a network marketing company has, but my job is to literally take, you know, a kit full of samples, right? Some some regular, normal, standard products that we would use and sell, and take them into people's homes and sit at the kitchen table and demonstrate. Right? The usefulness. Go over the guarantee, go over the pricing options, and you know what choices they could pick stuff out, and it turned out to be a lot of fun. Turned out to be more lucrative than most people imagine. I don't want to brag too much about how much reps make doing that, because then customers get upset we're being overpaid, but yeah, that's not true either. But it was a blast to to do that and the learning environment, right? What I learned about setting my own goals, discipline, awareness of the way communication landed on other people. I don't the psychology of communication, being around people, helping them understand what I knew to be true, finding ways to address concerns, issues, objections, without making them feel wrong or awkward. You know, it was a good environment, and that's why I stayed for 15 years. For   Michael Hingson ** 15:52 me, after college, I went to work with an organization that had developed a relationship with Dr Ray Kurzweil, the futurist and who now talks a lot about the singularity. And at that time, he had developed a machine that would read print out loud. Well, it would read print, and he chose, for the first application of that machine to be a machine that would read print out loud so that blind people could read print in books, because his technology didn't care about what type styles or print fonts were on the page anyway. After the job was over, I went to work for Ray, and after about eight or nine months, I was confronted with a situation where I was called into the office of the VP of Marketing, who said, your work is great. We love what you do, but you're not doing anything that produces revenue for us, because I was doing Human Factors work helping to enhance the machine, and so we're going to have to lay you off, he said. And I said, lay me off. And he said, again, your work is great, but we don't have enough revenue producers. We're, like a lot of startup engineering companies, we've hired way too many non revenue producers. So we got to let people go, and that includes you, unless you'll go into sales. And not only go into sales, but not selling the reading machine for the blind, but there's a commercial version that had just come out. So I ended up doing that, and took a Dale Carnegie sales course, a 10 week course, which I enjoyed very much. Learned a lot, and have been selling professionally ever since, of course, my story of being in the World Trade Center and escaping on September 11 after that, I still continue to sell. What I tell people is I love to view my life as now selling life and philosophy. Rather than selling computer hardware and managing a hardware team, it really is about selling life and philosophy and getting people to understand. You can learn to control fear. You can learn to function in environments that you don't expect, and you can go out of your comfort zone. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know. So that's it's been a lot of fun for the last 23 years to do that.   Daniel Andrews ** 18:00 Okay? Now you got me curious. What's the commercial application of a machine that will take a printed book and read it out loud? What I can clearly see why people with various and sundry?   Michael Hingson ** 18:12 Well, for people who are blind and low vision, well, so let's, let's deal with it. The commercial application for that particular machine is that people will buy it and use it. Of course, today it's an app on a smartphone, so it's a whole lot different than it was as a $50,000 machine back in 1978 1979 but the idea behind the machine was that libraries or agencies or organizations could purchase them, have them centrally located, so people who never could read print out loud before could actually go get a book, put it on the machine and read it.   Daniel Andrews ** 18:46 Okay? So this would make sense libraries and institutions of public knowledge, okay. But then, as I could see, where someone would want one in their home if they had need of it. But I was just curious about the commercial application well.   Michael Hingson ** 18:57 But then over time, as the technology advanced. As more were produced, the price went down. And it went from $50,000 down to $20,000 and you started to see some in people's homes. And then, of course, it got less and less and less and eventually, before it became almost a free app on a smartphone today, it used the Symbian operating system and Nokia phones, and the the technology, in total, was about $1,800 and then, of course, it became an app on a smartphone, and a lot of OCR today is free, but the other side of it was the machine I sold was a version that banks would use, lawyers would use, other people would use to be able to take printed documents and get them into computer readable form, because people saw pretty early on that was an important thing to be able to do so they could peruse databases and so on and so the bottom line is that it was very relevant to do. Yeah, and so there was commercial value, but now OCR has gotten to be such a regular mainstay of society. You know, we think of it differently than we did then, very   Daniel Andrews ** 20:10 much. But yeah, we still have one that can read my handwriting   Michael Hingson ** 20:15 that is coming. You know, they're my handwriting. I wanted to be a doctor, and I passed the handwriting course, but that's as far as I got. But, and as I love to tell people, the problem was I didn't have any patients, but, you know, oh boy. But the the bottom line is that there were applications for it, and and it worked, and it was great technology. So it taught me a lot to be able to be involved in taking the Dale Carnegie sales course, and I know he's one of the people that influenced you in various ways. Very much, very important to recognize for me that good sales people are really teachers and advisors and counselors. Absolutely you can. You can probably talk people into buying stuff, which may or may not be a good thing to do, but if we've really got something that they need, they'll figure it out and they'll want to buy   Daniel Andrews ** 21:11 it. Yeah, the way it was summarized to me, and this particularly relates around, you know, the Cutco product or another tangible you know, selling is just a transference of enthusiasm, meaning, if they knew and understood it the way I did, it would make perfect sense. So the question was, how do I find a way to convey my enthusiasm for what I knew about the product? And as simple, I don't wanna say simple, it sounds condescending in as few words as possible, in ways that made it easy for them to digest, right? Because some people are, are tactile, and they want to hold it, look at it. Others are, you know, knowledge oriented. They want to read the testimonials and a guarantee and, you know, things like that. So just, how do you, how do you kind of figure out who's looking for what? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 21:56 and the reality is, everybody is a little bit different in that arena. And as you said, conveying enthusiasm, you'll either be able to do it or you'll find that what you have isn't really what's going to make them enthusiastic, which can be okay too. Yep, the important thing is to know that and to use that information. And when necessary, you move on and you don't worry about it, correct? We have cut CO knives. We're we, we're happy. But anyway, I think the the issue is that we all have to grow, and we all have to learn to to do those things that we find are relevant. And if we we put our minds to it, we can be very productive people. And as you pointed out, it's all about transmitting enthusiasm, and that's the way it really ought to be.   22:54 Yeah, I think so.   Michael Hingson ** 22:55 So you talk about, well, so let's, let's go back. So you went to work for Cutco, and you did that for 15 years. What would you say the most important thing you learned as a as a salesperson, in working at Cutco really came down to,   Daniel Andrews ** 23:16 there's so many fundamental lessons in the direct sales industry, right? It's why, you know, so many people got their start with Encyclopedia Britannica or Southwestern books or Cutco knives, right? There's a, there's a, I mean, in the 90s, CentOS, the uniform people and sprint when cell phones were new and actually had to actively be sold because people had to be talked into it, yeah. You know, they ran whole recruiting ads that said, Did you used to sell knives, entry level work, starting at base, you know, salary plus commission, right? Because it was so foundational. So it's hard to say the most important thing, but I would say the ability to take control of my own schedule, and therefore my own actions, right, was a huge part of it. But then the ability to really know what, understand the people that I was working with as customers. As my time at ketco matured, and even after I left working with them full time, I still had a database of customers that wanted to deal strictly with me and the fact that they were happy to see me right? That when I was again, after I'd moved away, if I came back to town, that my customers would be like, Oh, I heard you're in town when you come to our house and have dinner, right? And just the way, I was able to move from business relationship into one where I really connected with them. And you know that many years, seeing that many customers give me some really cool stories too, which I'm not going to eat up most of this, but I've just got some fun stories of the way people responded to my pleasant persistence, follow through, follow up, knowing that I could run into any one of them anywhere at any moment in time. And not feel that I had oversold them, or I had been pushy, right, that they would be happy and what they bought. And as a matter of fact, I've only ever had one customer tell me that they bought too much Cutco. And she said that to me when I was there sharpening her Cutco and selling her more. And she said she had bought more than she needed for her kitchen. Initially, I'm selling her more for a gift, let me be clear. And I paused, and I said, Do you remember how the this is like five or six years later? I said, you remember how the conversation went? Because I use the story of that demo when I'm talking to other people and to other reps. She said, Oh yeah, no, no. She goes, I will 100% own that I chose to buy more than I needed. She goes, I was not trying to pin that on you. I was just trying to tell you that that's what I did. I said, Oh, okay, because I wanted to be clear, I remember very clearly that I offered you the small set, and you chose the big set. And she goes, that is exactly what happened. I made the choice to over buy, and that's on me, and that level of confidence of knowing I could go through time and space, that I could meet my customers here, you know, when I came back to town, or now that I moved back to town, and I don't have to flinch, right? But I'm not that I did it in a way that left them and me feeling good about the way I sold them. That's pretty it's pretty important,   Michael Hingson ** 26:15 and it is important, and it's, it's vital to do that. You know, a lot of people in sales talk all about networking and so on. You, don't you? You really do talk about what I believe is the most important part about sales, and that's relationship building, correct?   Daniel Andrews ** 26:34 I took, took my theme from The subtitle of a book called Super connector, and the subtitle is, stop networking and start building relationships that matter. And I'm, I'm comfortable using that, by the way, there's another book titled networking isn't working, and it's really hitting the same theme, which is, whatever people are calling networking is, is not really, truly building a network and relationships that make a difference. It's social selling. I call it sometimes. It's being practiced as speed prospecting, right? Or marketing by hand. There's, there's, there's a bunch of ways that I can articulate why it's not literally not networking. It's simply meeting people and treating them very one dimensionally. Will you buy my thing? Or do you know somebody That'll buy my thing right? And those are very short sighted questions that have limited value and keeps people on a treadmill of thinking they need to do more networking or meet the right people. I get this all the time, if I can just find the right people, or if I could just be in the right rooms, right at the right events, and I'm like, or you could just be the person that knows how to build the right relationships, no matter what room you're in. Now, having said that, are there some events, some rooms, some communities, that have a higher likelihood of high value? Sure, I don't want to discourage people from being intentional about where they go, but that's only probably 10 to 20% of the equation. 80 to 90% of the equation is, do you know what to do with the people that you meet when you meet them? Because anybody that's the wrong person, and I simply mean that in the context of they're not a prospect. Knows people that could be a prospect, but you can't just go, Oh, you're not going to buy my thing. Michael Hinkson, do you know, anybody that's going to buy my thing that's no good, because you're not going to put your reputation on the line and refer me somewhere, right until you have some trust in me, whatever that looks like.   Michael Hingson ** 28:30 And that's the real issue, right? It's all about trust right down the line. You know, network is meeting more people, meeting more people. That's great. I love to meet people, but I personally like to establish relationships. I like to get to know people, and have probably longer and more conversations than some of my bosses would have liked. But the result and the success of establishing the relationships can't be ignored   Daniel Andrews ** 29:05 correct. And I think that you kind of threw in a word there that I think some people will internalize, or it will reinforce some of their preconceptions. And I think it's worth addressing. And I'll just give you a quick example. Six, six weeks ago, four weeks ago, I had a conversation with somebody I was introduced to. His name happens to be Michael as well. Michael, Mike Whitmore. He was impressed with the quality of our first well, it went 45 it was scheduled for 25 and I went 45 because we really gelled. And he invited me to come to a cocktail party that was being hosted by a company he was affiliated with three hour event, and we spoke again later to make sure you know everything was in order, because it involved me flying to Salt Lake City for a cocktail party I did. He was there. We spoke briefly. We both mingled with other. People. I had breakfast with him the next day. This is yesterday that I had breakfast with him. And as we're talking, he's like, Okay, I have 80 people that need what you've got. He's, he's basically, after a few conversations, gonna refer about $400,000 for the business to me, right? And I'm like, Okay, and so what people miss is that you can build that relationship quickly if you're intentional about building the relationship. And where I see the mistake most people make. And God bless Dale Carnegie, and Dale's Carnegie sales training course, right? But that that the model, what I call the cocktail party model, or the How to Win Friends and Influence People, model of getting to know somebody you know. How about that ball team? You know? Did your sports club win? Right? How's the weather up there? Did you hear about the you know, how's your mom, right? When's the last time you were camping with the fam? All legitimate questions, but none of them moved the business conversation forward. And so the ability to build a productive business relationship faster by focusing on the mutual shared value that you have between each other and the business aspects, and including the personal as the icing on the cake is a much better way to do it, and that's why I was very particular about the fact that, you know, when I was talking about my experience with ketco, that it was over time that the personal aspects, that the friendship looking aspects, evolved On top of the business relationship, because it is way easier to mix the ingredients, to put the icing or friendship on the cake of business than it is to establish a friendship and then go, by the way, it's time for us to talk business, right? You need to our client, or you need to let me sell what I'm offering that can get become jarring to people, and it can call into question the whole reason you got to know them to start with, right? So I much prefer the other route. And just one other brief example, speaking with a woman in a in what I, you know, a first paired interview, Quick Connect, 25 minutes long, and she's like, understand, you know, relationships, it's the, you know, it's the way to do it, right? It's the long play, but it pays off over time. And you know, as long as you stay at it, and I'm like, Why do you keep saying it's the long play? Well, because relationships take time. And I'm like, You say so. And we started to run long and realized we had more value, so we booked it. Ended up being about four or five weeks later, because my calendar stays pretty full, and she's so we've been in 125 minute phone call. We start the second zoom with her, with Peggy asking me who's your target market again. And I gave her the description for a $25,000 client. And she said, I have three people that I can refer you to in that space that might might want to be clients. And then she started to try and tell me how relationships are the long play? Again, I'm like, thank you. Hold up. We spent 25 minutes together a month ago, and you started this conversation by referring $75,000 worth of revenue to me. What makes you think relationships are the long play? I think you can make them last if you want them to last, but it doesn't take a long time to build those I said I knew what I was doing with those first 25 minutes. That's why, at this stage of the game, you're looking to refer business to me. Yeah, right, yeah. And so I don't think it's a long you're not establishing a marriage relationship, right? You're not deciding who your new best friend is going to be, right? You're trying to establish a mutually beneficial business relationship and see what it takes you right with the right set of questions, it goes so much faster   Michael Hingson ** 33:49 and and that's really a key. And for me, one of the things that I learned in sales, that I really value a lot is never answer or ask close ended questions. I hate yes and no questions, because I learned a long time ago. I don't learn much if I just ask somebody. Oh, so you, you tell me you need a tape library, right? Yes, and you, you ask other questions, but you don't ask the questions like, What do you want to use it for? Why do you really need a tape library today? What? What is it that you you value or that you want to see increased in your world, or whatever the case happens to be, right? But I hate closed ended questions. I love to engage in conversations, and I have lots of stories where my sales teams. When I manage teams, at first, didn't understand that, and they asked the wrong questions. But when I would ask questions, I would get people talking. And I was I went into a room of Solomon brothers one day back in like, 2000 or so, or 2000 early 2001 and I was with. My best sales guy who understood a lot of this, but at the same time, he wanted me to come along, because they wanted to meet a sales manager, and he said, I didn't tell him you were blind, because we're going to really hit him with that. And that was fine. I understood what he what he meant, but also he knew that my style was different and that I liked to get more information. And so when we went in and I started trying to talk to the people, I turned to one guy and I said, tell me what's your name. And it took me three times to get him to say his name, and finally I had to say I heard you as I walked by. You know, I know you're there, what's your name? And then we started talking, and by the time all was said and done. I got everyone in that room talking, which is great, because they understood that I was really interested in knowing what they were all about, which is important,   Daniel Andrews ** 35:53 correct? And I mean part of it right, particularly if you're problem solving, right? If you're there with a solution, a sales environment, open ended questions, predominantly the way to go. There's always going to have to be some closed ended right? What's the budget for this? Who are the decision makers in the process? But, and I certainly think a lot of the same ones apply in decision making. Meaning, it's probably an 8020 split. 80% of the questions should be open ended. 20% you know, you know, you just need some data from the other person, right? Because, as I'm meeting people, I need to decide who to refer them to, right? I know I can think off the top of my head of three different resume coaches, right? People that help people get the resume, their cover letter and their interview skills together. And one charges, you know, four to 5000 for the effort, right, depending on the package, right? One charges between 2030 500 depending on one guy charges, you know, his Deluxe is 1200 bucks, right? And the deliverable is roughly the same. Meaning, I've never looked for a job using these people, because I've been self employed forever, but I would imagine the deliverable is probably not three times as or four times as good at 5k at 1200 Right, right? But I need to know the answer, what you charge, because the rooms I will put people in are going to differentiate, right? I actually said it to the guy that was charging 1200 I said, Where'd you get the number? And he told me. And I said, Do you realize that you're losing business because you're not charging enough, right? And he said, Yes, some prospects have told me that. And I said, I'm sorry. Plural. I said, How many? How many are going to tell you before I before you raise your rates? And I said, here's the thing, there's communities, networks that I can introduce you to at that price point, but the networks that I run in won't take you seriously if you're not quoting 5000 for the job. Yeah? And he just couldn't get his head around it. And I'm like, Okay, well, then you're stuck there until you figure out that you need to triple or quadruple your price to hang out in the rooms I hang out in to be taken seriously.   Michael Hingson ** 37:57 Yeah? And it is tough for a lot of people, by the way, with that Solomon story, by the time I was done, and we had planned on doing a PowerPoint show describing our products, which I did, but even before we did that, I knew our product wasn't going to do what they needed. But went through the presentation, and then I said, and as you can see, what we have won't work. Here's why, but here's what will work. And after it was all said and done, one of the people from near the back of the room came up and he said, we're mad at you. And I said, why? He said, Oh, your presentation was great. You You gave us an interesting presentation. We didn't get bored at all. The problem was, we forgot you were blind, and we didn't dare fall asleep, because you'd see us. And I said, well, well, the bottom line is, my dog was down here taking notes, and we would have got you anyway, but, but, you know, he was he we had a lot of fun with that. Two weeks later, we got a proposal request from them, and they said, just tell us what we're what we're going to have to pay. We got another project, and we're going to do it with you. And that was   Daniel Andrews ** 39:02 it, yeah, and because the credibility that you'd established credibility,   Michael Hingson ** 39:07 and that is a great thing,   Daniel Andrews ** 39:09 that was part of the discussion I have with some of my clients today when I hold a weekly office hours to see what comes up. And I said, it's just important to be able to refer people to resources or vendors, as it is to refer them to a prospect, right? If you don't have the solution, or if your solution isn't the best fit for them, the level of credibility you gain to go, you know what you need to do? You need to go hang out over there. Yeah, right. You need to talk to that guy or gal about what they have to offer. And the credibility goes through the roof. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 39:39 we've been talking about networking, and I think that's everything we've talked about. I think really makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that you don't build a network. It's just that networking and building a network are really two different sorts of things. What are some of the most important things that you've learned about building. That   Daniel Andrews ** 40:00 works. Sure, there's several, and some of them come as a bit of a shock to people. And I always say it's okay if it's a shock to you, because it was a shock to me. But I don't take I don't have opinions. I have positions based on data. Right? You know that from your from your days as a scientist, what you think ought to be true absolutely irrelevant in the face of what the data tells us is true. But I think one of the important things is that it's possible to give wrong. Adam Grant says in the first chapter of his book, give and take. That if you look at people's networking styles, and I'll use the common vernacular networking styles, you have givers, people that tend to give more than they, you know, receive takers, people whose objective is to always be on the plus side of the equation. And then matchers, people that practice the degree of reciprocity. And I would even argue that that reciprocity and matching is a bad mentality, just so you know. But if you look at the lifetime of success, a career is worth of success. In the top levels of success, you find more givers than takers and matchers, which makes a lot of sense. In the lowest levels of success, you find more givers than takers and matchers. They're giving wrong. They tend to polarize. They tend to either be high achieving or very low achieving, because they're giving wrong. And so I and Michael, let me use his name. We had breakfast yesterday morning after the happy hour, and I said, Mike, are you open for coaching? And he said, You know I am. He said, I didn't have you flat here in Salt Lake City, because I don't respect you. What do you got for me? I said, Josh kept thanking you yesterday for the things you've done for him in his world lately, you know, over the last several years. And he kept saying, What can I do for you? And you said, Oh, no, I just love giving. I love giving, right? You know, it's not a problem. You know, I'm in a great position. I don't need to have a lot of need of resources. And I said, and you're missing the fact that he was explicitly telling you this relationship feels uneven. I said it takes longer to kill it, but you will kill a relationship just as quickly by consistently over giving as you will by taking too much. And it's a little more subconscious, although in Josh's case, it was very conscious. He was actively trying to get Mike to tell him, what can I do for you so I don't feel like I'm powerless in this relationship. And Mike was like, Oh my gosh, I never thought of that. Said, Look, I said, I don't know how your kids are. He said, well, two of them are married. And I said, my grown daughter argues with me over who's going to buy dinner. But I get it because I used to argue with my dad, who was going to buy dinner. Yeah, dinner together, right? It feels weird for someone, even somebody, that loves you, right? And, of course, the only way I can do it with my daughter is to explain, it's her money anyway. I'm just spending her inheritance on her now, it's the only way she'll let me buy dinner every time we meet, and she still insists that she pays the debt, because over giving will get in the way of what we're trying to accomplish, right? That's fair, yeah. And so people miss that, right? I get this law of reciprocity. If I just give and give and give to the world, it'll all come back to me. No, ma'am. We have 6000 years of recorded history that says that's not   Michael Hingson ** 43:18 how it works. There's there's something to be said forgiving, but there's also receiving. And in a sense, receiving can be a gift too. So you're mentioning Michael and Josh. Josh would have loved, as you're pointing out, Michael to tell him some things that he could do for Michael, and that would have been a great gift. So the reality is, it's how people view giving, which is oftentimes such a problem. I know, for me as a public speaker, I love dealing with organizations that are willing to pay a decent wage to bring a speaker in, because they understand it, and they know they're going to get their money's worth out of it. And I've gone and spoken at some places where they say, well, we can't pay you a lot of money. We're going to have to pay just this little, tiny amount. And invariably, they're the organizations that take the most work, because they're the ones that are demanding the most, even though they're not giving nearly as much in return. And and for me, I will always tell anyone, especially when we're clearly establishing a good relationship, I'm here as your guest. I want to do whatever you need me to do, so please tell me how best I can help you, but I know I'm going to add value, and we explore that together, and it's all about communication.   Daniel Andrews ** 44:48 I think so well. And in the case, you know, just go back to the mike and Josh story real quick, right? There's, there's number one, there's a sense of fairness. And I don't like the word reciprocity or magic, right? I like the word. Mutuality, but there's a sense of fairness. Number one. Number two, it's a little bit belittling to Josh, for Mike to act like Josh doesn't have anything to offer him, right? It's a little bit condescending, or it could be, Mike doesn't mean it that way, right? No, what he means is my relationship with you, Josh is not predicated on us keeping a scoreboard on the wall and that we make sure we come out even at the end of every quarter, right? But, but. And then the third part is, you know, I said, Mike, think of how good you feel when you give. He says, I love it. It's great. That's why I said, so you're robbing Josh of the feeling of giving when you don't give him a chance to give. I said, you're telling him that your joy is more important than his joy, and he's like I never thought of over giving or not asking as robbing people of joy. I said, You need to give the gift to Josh and the people around you to feel the joy that comes from being of use, of being helpful, of having and I said, even if you have to make something up or overstate the value of a of a task that he could do for you, I said, if you literally don't need anything in your world, Mike, find some job Hunter that's looking for work. And say, Josh, as a courtesy to me, would you meet with Billy Bob and see if you can help him find work somehow give Josh the sense that he's contributing to the betterment of your world, even   Michael Hingson ** 46:26 if it may not work out that this person, Billy Bob would would get a job, but it's still you're you're helping to further the relationship between the two of you, correct, right? You're   Daniel Andrews ** 46:38 helping him feel like he's an equal in that relationship. And that's an important part of it. It really is. It's now I do an important part. I do believe we absolutely should tithe. We should give of our time. We should be at the homeless shelter on Thanksgiving. If that's what we're called to do, we should be, you know, you know, aid to the poor, you know, mentoring junior people who don't have a lot to offer us. I absolutely believe that's true. So when I say give strategically or given a sense of mutuality, but we need clear delineations on you know what we're doing, because if we give indiscriminately, then we find out that we're like the people in chapter one of Adam Grant's book that are in the lower quartile of success, even though we're quote, doing all the right things. And the best way to make you know, the example I give on that, and I'll articulate this little bit, I'm holding my hands apart and moving them closer together in stages, just because the visual will help you here too. But I tell people, right? I hold my hands apart and I say, you know, we're going to spend this much time on the planet alive, right? And this much time on the planet awake, right, and this much time on the planet at work. And then I'll pause and go, these are approximations right, because clearly they are right, and this much time on the planet dealing with other people. So if, if it's true that we only have a limited or finite resource of time to spend building a network with other people, then why wouldn't we choose people whose message is worth amplifying and who we're well positioned to amplify and vice versa? And to make that even more clear for people, if you're a real estate agent, you could find a lot of people that would refer business to you, but you could find a few people that would refer a lot   Michael Hingson ** 48:25 of business, a lot of business. Yeah,   Daniel Andrews ** 48:27 you could find a mortgage lender, a divorce attorney, a moving company, a funeral home director, a nursing home director, right? And and if you're going to spend time building relationships with people, why wouldn't you find the people who are positioned to touch more people that you need to touch, particularly if there is some mutuality, meaning, as a real estate agent, I would be just as likely to be able to help a mortgage lender, a moving company, a funeral loan director, etc, etc, etc, right? All those things can come into play. And you know, the John gates, the salary negotiation coach, right? And Amanda Val bear, the resume writing coach, anybody can refer business to Amanda, but John's going to refer a lot more business to Amanda. Anybody can refer business to John, but Amanda's going to refer a lot more business to John. And and, you know, given that we've only got a finite number of conversations we're able to hold in our lifetime, why wouldn't Amanda and John be spending time with each other rather than spending time with me, who might occasionally meet somebody who needs them, but not on a daily basis the way Amanda meets John's clients? John meets Amanda's potential clients.   Michael Hingson ** 49:32 So here's the other way to spin. May not be the right word, but I'll use it. Frame it. Frame it. So you've got somebody who you're not giving a lot of, let's say a real estate agent. You're not giving that person a lot, but you're giving Elmo Schwartz, the real estate agent down the street, a lot more referrals and so on. Then the real estate agent who you're not referring a lot of people to, comes along and says, You. You know, I know you're really working with this other guy, but you know you and I have have had some conversations, and so how come I can't take advantage of the many opportunities that you're that you're offering? And I, for me, I always rejoice when I hear somebody ask that question, because at least they're opening up and they're saying, What do I need to do? At least, that's what I assume they're asking,   Daniel Andrews ** 50:24 yes, yeah, and that's a question that I teach people to ask, under what conditions would you feel comfortable referring business to me, right? Right? And you know, they may go, well, we don't share the same last name, but all my referrals go to, you know, Billy Bob, because he's my brother in law, and Thanksgiving gets weird, right? If he realizes I've been given leads to you, right? You know, it may never happen. Now, in my case, I believe in having multiple referral partners in every industry, right? Yeah, I don't just pick one, because personality plays part of it, right? I mean, and we can go back to real estate just because you say you're a real estate agent, I'm a real estate agent. I mean, we're calling on the same market. Same market at all, right, right? You could be a buyer's agent. I could be a seller's agent. You could be calling on, you know, what's a probate and estate issues? I could be dealing with first time homebuyers and young people, right? And therefore, and a lot of times it's personality, meaning, I personally, is not even the right word approach to business, meaning, there's some people that I would send to Ann Thomason, and there's some people I would send to Kim Lawson, and there's some people I would send to Elaine Gillespie, and some people I'd send to Taco Beals, right? Because I know what each of their strengths are, and I also know what sort of person they want to work with, right? Right? That's 1/3 person would appreciate them.   Michael Hingson ** 51:42 And that's the important part that that when somebody comes along and says, How come such and such, you can answer that, and you can do it in a way that helps them understand where they can truly fit into what you're offering, and that you can find a way to make it work, and that's really important. I've always maintained the best salespeople or teachers, pure and simple, in almost everything, and preachers, but but listening preachers. So it is, it is important to, yeah, well,   Daniel Andrews ** 52:16 and I bring this up in the context because we have a Bible college here in our town. So when I was a manager for Cutco, right? We get the college kids, right? Some of these seminary students, you know, looking for summer work and right? And they're like, you know, how does sales relate to, you know, being in the ministry later, I said, man. I said, Are you kidding? You kidding? I said, it's the purest. I said, you've got the hardest sales down on the roll. You ask people to pay the price now, and the payoff is at the end of their life. That's not sales. I don't know what is. At least, when people give me money, I give them something for it within a couple of days, you know, I said, I said, You better be good at sales if you're going to be your preacher eventually. Because you the, you know, the payment, the cost comes now, and the payoff, the reward comes later. I said, Man, those are the same but teachers the same way, right? You've got to invest the kids, the kids or the student, no matter how you know and what they're learning and why it's going to be relevant down the   Michael Hingson ** 53:06 road, right? Yeah, well, you You clearly have, have accepted all of this. When did you realize that maybe you were doing it wrong and that you re evaluated what you do?   Daniel Andrews ** 53:17 That's a great story, and there was a light bulb moment for me, right? I think the kids these days call it the origin story, right? You know. And and to tell the story correctly, but I have to give labels to the other two people involved, because their names are so similar that when I tell the story, I managed to confuse myself who was who. So I was in St Louis, Missouri, which, for reasons I won't go into for this podcast, is a weird town to be involved in B to B business in. They literally would prefer to do business with somebody they went to high school with. It's just a It's strange, but true. And I can go into the background of why it's true. It just is. It's accepted by people that have sold in towns other than St Louis. It's they know that St Louis is weird. Okay, so I'm having trouble not getting the traction I want. Who's in my industry, he agrees that we're going to partner and we're going to have a revenue share. I don't believe in finder's fees, but if you're going to co create the value with me, that's a different thing altogether, right? Writing a name on a piece of paper, I'm not paying for that. But if you're going to go with me on the appointment and help me get the job done. Yeah. Okay, back to the point. So my wingman, right? My partner, I call him wingman for the version this story, local, been around forever, prospect, business owner, right? We've got a B to B offered that's going to be fairly lucrative, because he's part of a family that owns a family businesses quite, quite a large there in St Louis. And we had met with the CFO because that was the real touch point on the business. As far as the value proposition over lunch, the four of us have been there prospect wingman CFO, of the prospect of myself, and it went reasonably well. Out they wanted to follow up to make the decision, which is not, not atypical. So we're back there standing in the parking lot of the prospects business, and the prospect points at me and says, Who is this guy? And my partner says, he's my guy. And the prospect points at me and goes, but I don't know this guy, and my partner says, but I know this guy, and the prospect points me and says, Well, what happens if something happens to this guy? And my partner says, I'll find another guy. And that was the purest, simplest form of what's truly happening when you're building a network. See, my days at Cutco were predicated on some of the same things. I go to Michael's house. I asked the name of your neighbors, your best friends, your pastor, your doctor, whoever you think, and then I would call them Hey, your buddy Michael insen said you'd help me out. So I'm borrowing a little bit of credibility, but the sale was made in the product, right? I'm only asking for a moment of your time, but I expected to show up, meaning I was only borrowing someone else's credibility to get a moment of your time. But I expected to show up and let the product and my Sterling personalities, I like to think of it, shine through and make the sale. There you go. And I realized, because when the prospect pointed me and said, Who is this guy, I thought my partner would say, he's my guy. Daniel, here's your chance to rise and shine, bring it, do that song and dance that you do, right? And he didn't. He kept the focus on the real point, which was that the prospect had credibility with my partner, and my partner had credibility with me. Yeah, right. And, and, and in that moment where he refused to put the spotlight on me, my partner kept it on himself, and he said, Mr. Prospect, don't worry about him. I'm not asking you to trust him. I'm asking you to trust me. And that was the light bulb where I said, Oh, what we're building is not introductions. We're building endorsements. When I get to the prospects door. I have the all the credibility that came from Bert, who referred me right, whatever credibility my partner, Bert, had with the prospect Butch. I show up on Butch is doorstep with that credibility. And when Butch starts to question it, the prospect starts to question it, my partner goes, What do you question? You're going to question him. We're not talking about him. We're talking about you and me, and we've known each other 30 years. What are you doing here? And I'm like, oh, that's why we're doing this. That's the point. I'm not asking to borrow your Rolodex. I'm asking to borrow your credibility.   Michael Hingson ** 57:38 And the other part of that question that comes to mind is, did the credibility that Bert and Butch have with each other ever get to the point where it transferred to you, at least in part? Oh, yeah,   Daniel Andrews ** 57:55 yeah, we got the sale. Yeah. I mean, that was the conversation where he's like, All right, we're going to do this. I'm like, because it was a big deal. It was a very large deal. And, yeah, but in   Michael Hingson ** 58:04 general, you know, I hear what you're saying, and in general, somewhere along the line, the prospect has to say, has to hopefully recognize this other guy really is part of the process and has value, and so I'm going to like him too, correct,   Daniel Andrews ** 58:23 and you can drop the ball. It's possible to screw it up, but I'm starting at a level 10 in the case of this particular pair of people, and it's mine to lose, as opposed to starting from zero and trying to get up to five or six or eight or whatever it takes to make the sale, and that's the biggest difference, right? It will, it will transfer to me, but then it's up to me to drop the ball and lose it, meaning, if I don't do anything stupid, it's going to stay there. And you know what was great about my partner was he didn't even not that I would have but he didn't give me any room to say anything stupid. He's like, he's like, let's not even talk. Put the spotlight on Daniel. Let's keep the spotlight on the two of us, and the fact that I've never let you down in 30 years. Why would you think this is going to be a bad introduction   Michael Hingson ** 59:09

From the archive: This episode was originally recorded and published in 2021. Our interviews on Entrepreneurs On Fire are meant to be evergreen, and we do our best to confirm that all offers and URL's in these archive episodes are still relevant. Michael E. Gerber is the author of the NY Times mega-bestseller, for two consecutive decades, "The E-Myth Revisited" and nine other worldwide best-selling E-Myth books concerning small business entrepreneurship, leadership, and management. Top 3 Value Bombs 1. If you're to become someone you're not, or you're to possess something you don't feel, or you're unwilling to go one step further in your life without discovering who you are and why you're here, then The Dreaming Room Online is for you. 2. The entrepreneurial spirit, despite the desire to not experience pain, is incapable of not doing what's necessary to be done despite the pain that comes with it. It's driven from within - from the notion that we're born from the image of God. 3. The four personalities an entrepreneur is comprised of — the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader. Transform Your Life. Realize Your Dream. Vision. Purpose. Mission - Michael's website Sponsors HubSpot When you combine the power of Marketing Hub and Content Hub, you can have your best quarter, every quarter. Visit Hubspot.com/marketers to learn more Notion Combines your notes, docs, and projects into one space that's simple and beautifully designed. And now it has the power of AI built right inside of it! Try Notion for free when you go to Notion.com/johnleedumas Optimize To chat with JLD about Optimizing your life, click here: EOFire.com/optimize

From the archive: This episode was originally recorded and published in 2021. Our interviews on Entrepreneurs On Fire are meant to be evergreen, and we do our best to confirm that all offers and URL's in these archive episodes are still relevant. Michael E. Gerber is the author of the NY Times mega-bestseller, for two consecutive decades, "The E-Myth Revisited" and nine other worldwide best-selling E-Myth books concerning small business entrepreneurship, leadership, and management. Top 3 Value Bombs 1. If you're to become someone you're not, or you're to possess something you don't feel, or you're unwilling to go one step further in your life without discovering who you are and why you're here, then The Dreaming Room Online is for you. 2. The entrepreneurial spirit, despite the desire to not experience pain, is incapable of not doing what's necessary to be done despite the pain that comes with it. It's driven from within - from the notion that we're born from the image of God. 3. The four personalities an entrepreneur is comprised of — the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader. Transform Your Life. Realize Your Dream. Vision. Purpose. Mission - Michael's website Sponsors HubSpot When you combine the power of Marketing Hub and Content Hub, you can have your best quarter, every quarter. Visit Hubspot.com/marketers to learn more Notion Combines your notes, docs, and projects into one space that's simple and beautifully designed. And now it has the power of AI built right inside of it! Try Notion for free when you go to Notion.com/johnleedumas Optimize To chat with JLD about Optimizing your life, click here: EOFire.com/optimize

In this episode of Grow a Small Business, host Troy Trewin interviews Julie Bee, founder of Julie Bee Consulting. Julie shares her journey of starting a marketing agency in 2008, growing it to a 15-member team with 7-figure revenue, and her eventual exit. She discusses her book Burned, which helps business owners navigate burnout, and provides insights on leadership, financial strategy, and redefining success. Tune in to learn actionable strategies from Julie's inspiring career. In her book Burned: How Business Owners Can Overcome Burnout and Fuel Success, she addresses the widespread issue of burnout among business owners, emphasizing that traditional advice—such as taking vacations, exercising more, and practicing meditation—does not provide the real solutions they need to overcome this challenge. Why would you wait any longer to start living the lifestyle you signed up for? Balance your health, wealth, relationships and business growth. And focus your time and energy and make the most of this year. Let's get into it by clicking here. Troy delves into our guest's startup journey, their perception of success, industry reconsideration, and the pivotal stress point during business expansion. They discuss the joys of small business growth, vital entrepreneurial habits, and strategies for team building, encompassing wins, blunders, and invaluable advice. And a snapshot of the final five Grow A Small Business Questions: What do you think is the hardest thing in growing a small business? Julie Bee believes the hardest thing in growing a small business is delegating effectively, particularly sales, which is often challenging for small business owners to let go of. She emphasizes the importance of training others and building systems to enable growth without micromanagement. This includes creating processes, empowering teams, and resisting the urge to fix every problem personally, which can hinder scalability and efficiency. What's your favourite business book that has helped you the most? Julie Bee's favorite business book is The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber, which she finds invaluable for its insights on building systems and processes to scale a small business. She also highly recommends The Great Game of Business by Jack Stack, appreciating its practical advice on financial transparency and employee engagement, which are crucial for sustainable growth. Both books have significantly influenced her entrepreneurial journey. Are there any great podcasts or online learning resources you'd recommend to help grow a small business? Julie Bee recommends several podcasts and online learning resources to help grow a small business, including Jay Klaus's Creator Lab, which focuses on helping creators and entrepreneurs, Speaker Lab, a podcast she frequently listens to, especially as speaking engagements are part of her career, and Don't Write That Book, a fantastic resource for aspiring authors that she wishes she had discovered earlier. These resources cover a range of topics, from general entrepreneurship to specific skills like public speaking and writing, making them valuable tools for business growth. What tool or resource would you recommend to grow a small business? Julie Bee recommends using project management software like Asana right from the start to help grow a small business. She emphasizes that getting used to such tools early on can make it easier to scale and manage your team as your business grows. By adopting project management software, you can streamline workflows, improve organization, and facilitate collaboration, which are essential for sustainable business growth. What advice would you give yourself on day one of starting out in business? Julie Bee would advise herself on day one of starting out in business that success and goals are not the same thing. She emphasizes the importance of defining success outside of just achieving goals because, as a business owner and high achiever, you often move on to the next goal immediately after reaching one, leaving little time to feel successful. She would tell herself to create a definition of success that goes beyond goal achievement, such as enjoying personal relationships, flexibility, and well-being, to truly feel fulfilled in both business and life.  Book a 20-minute Growth Chat with Troy Trewin to see if you qualify for our upcoming course. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your small business to new heights! Enjoyed the podcast? Please leave a review on iTunes or your preferred platform. Your feedback helps more small business owners discover our podcast and embark on their business growth journey.       Quotable quotes from our special Grow A Small Business podcast guest: Success isn't just about achieving goals; it's about defining what truly matters to you beyond the numbers — Julie Bee Measure your well-being like you measure your business KPIs—what gets measured gets managed — Julie Bee Leadership isn't about fixing problems for others; it's about teaching them how to solve them — Julie Bee      

In this episode of Grow a Small Business, host Michael Denehey interviews Mike McHenry, founder of Seamless SMSF, shares his inspiring journey of scaling from a solo venture with one team member to a thriving business with 50 staff. Based in Gold Coast, Australia, Seamless SMSF audits over 30,000 funds for 360 firms, emphasizing a people-first culture. Mike reveals key lessons on building processes, maintaining strong relationships, and fostering team development. His insights offer valuable takeaways for entrepreneurs navigating growth. Why would you wait any longer to start living the lifestyle you signed up for? Balance your health, wealth, relationships and business growth. And focus your time and energy and make the most of this year. Let's get into it by clicking here. Michael delves into our guest's startup journey, their perception of success, industry reconsideration, and the pivotal stress point during business expansion. They discuss the joys of small business growth, vital entrepreneurial habits, and strategies for team building, encompassing wins, blunders, and invaluable advice. And a snapshot of the final five Grow A Small Business Questions: What do you think is the hardest thing in growing a small business? Mike McHenry believes the hardest part of growing a small business is managing people. He emphasizes that while people are the greatest asset, they can also be the biggest challenge. Success comes from hiring for cultural fit over skill alone, fostering trust, and building a supportive and aligned team culture. He stresses that having the right people who follow effective processes is essential for delivering outcomes and sustaining growth. What's your favourite business book that has helped you the most? Mike McHenry's favorite business book is "The E-Myth Revisited" by Michael Gerber. He appreciates its focus on the importance of systems and processes in creating scalable and successful businesses. Mike considers it a foundational read for anyone starting or running a business, highlighting how it teaches entrepreneurs to understand their customers deeply and build businesses that feel personal and supportive. Are there any great podcasts or online learning resources you'd recommend to help grow a small business? Mike McHenry recommends exploring sales-focused podcasts and resources like Simon Sinek's insightful YouTube content, which emphasizes people and leadership challenges in the modern era. While he doesn't follow specific podcasts regularly, he values recommendations from trusted contacts and seeks out learning opportunities that align with his interests. What tool or resource would you recommend to grow a small business? Mike McHenry highlights culture as the most critical "tool" for growing a small business. He emphasizes creating a people-first environment where empathy, respect, and collaboration are central. Building strong relationships with employees and customers fosters trust and engagement. Additionally, he recommends developing clear systems and processes to deliver consistent outcomes. McHenry advises asking, "What do I want people to say about my business when I'm not in the room?" and aligning your actions to achieve that reputation. What advice would you give yourself on day one of starting out in business? Mike McHenry's advice to himself on day one of starting out in business is: "Don't panic. It's going to be okay." He stresses the importance of staying calm, focusing on the bigger picture, and forgiving yourself for mistakes, as they are part of the journey. He encourages new entrepreneurs to approach business as a game, focus on their intent, and trust that things will work out with perseverance and a people-first mindset. Book a 20-minute Growth Chat with Troy Trewin to see if you qualify for our upcoming course. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your small business to new heights! Enjoyed the podcast? Please leave a review on iTunes or your preferred platform. Your feedback helps more small business owners discover our podcast and embark on their business growth journey.     Quotable quotes from our special Grow A Small Business podcast guest: Success in business starts with giving a genuine care about people and their needs — Mike McHenry Outstanding culture drives outstanding results; never compromise on it — Mike McHenry True business growth happens when you leave your ego at the door — Mike McHenry  

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1550: Marc Bilodeau explores the intricate dynamics of owning a company, emphasizing the critical balance between personal ambition and the responsibility of leadership. He sheds light on how embracing challenges and uncertainty can lead to deeper growth, both personally and professionally.. He sheds light on how embracing challenges and uncertainty can lead to deeper growth, both personally and professionally. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://www.marcbilodeau.com/owning-a-company/ Quotes to ponder: "Ownership is not just a title; it's a commitment to constant growth and responsibility." "True leadership isn't about avoiding risks - it's about navigating through them with clarity and purpose." "Success comes from seeing uncertainty as a chance to innovate and lead with courage." Episode references: The Lean Startup: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898 Start with Why: https://www.amazon.com/Start-Why-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone/dp/1591846447 The E-Myth Revisited: https://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Originally aired in February of this year, this episode revisits timeless insights from Michael E. Gerber, author of The E-Myth Revisited and one of the world's most renowned thought leaders on small business success.What does it take to build a business that operates without relying entirely on you? How do you design systems that scale while staying true to your vision and values?In this episode, Bill Gallagher reconnects with Michael to explore foundational principles for creating scalable systems and impactful businesses. Michael reflects on his journey, the lessons from his bestseller, and why the concepts from The E-Myth remain as relevant today as ever.Topics explored in this episode:- The key difference between owning a business and having a job.- Why most small businesses fail—and how to avoid the pitfalls.- The Eightfold Path to evolving a company from 1 to 1,000 employees.- The critical role of storytelling in creating a lasting legacy.- Lessons from McDonald's and other scalable business models.- Why repeatability and ritual are at the heart of business success.Chapters(02:00) Michael's Accidental Journey into Business(09:30) The Importance of a Selling System(17:00) Lessons from McDonald's: Building Scalable Systems(22:00) The Dream, Vision, Purpose, and Mission Framework(31:00) Practice, Ritual, and Mastery in Business(45:00) Addressing Remote Work through Timeless Principles(50:00) The Eightfold Path: Evolving a Company from 1 to 1,000Michael E. Gerber has spent over 40 years revolutionizing the way small businesses operate, starting with the principles in his global bestseller, The E-Myth Revisited. His work has inspired millions of entrepreneurs to systematize their businesses, transform their approach, and build enterprises that thrive without them.Learn more about Michael's transformational programs: MichaelEGerber.comJoin Michael in The Dreaming Room: A six-week immersive experience to awaken the entrepreneur within.Connect with Michael:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelegerbercompanies/Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/michaelegerberVisit https://ScalingUp.com to learn more about Verne Harnish, our team of Scaling Up Coaches, and the Scaling Up Performance Platform, which includes coaching, learning, software, and summit. We share how the fastest-growing companies succeed where so many others fail. We help leadership teams with the biggest decisions around people, strategy, execution, and cash so that they can scale up successfully and beat the odds of business growth. Did you enjoy today's episode? If so, then please leave a review! Help other business leaders discover Scaling Up Business with Bill Gallagher so they, too, can benefit from the ideas shared in these podcasts.Subscribe via Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3PGhWPJSubscribe via Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PKe00uBill on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/billgall/ Bill on Twitter/X:

In this episode, we dive into the distinction between working on your business and working in your business, as popularized by Michael Gerber in "The E-Myth Revisited." Side Hustle School features a new episode EVERY DAY, featuring detailed case studies of people who earn extra money without quitting their job. This year, the show includes free guided lessons and listener Q&A several days each week. Show notes: SideHustleSchool.com Email: team@sidehustleschool.com Be on the show: SideHustleSchool.com/questions Connect on Instagram: @193countries Visit Chris's main site: ChrisGuillebeau.com Read A Year of Mental Health: yearofmentalhealth.substack.com If you're enjoying the show, please pass it along! It's free and has been published every single day since January 1, 2017. We're also very grateful for your five-star ratings—it shows that people are listening and looking forward to new episodes.