Podcast appearances and mentions of Ray Kurzweil

AI is real and it's rapidly advancing the practice of law. Guest Austin Brittenham is the co-founder of the legal AI company 2nd Chair. As an attorney, he recognized the inefficiencies that plague the legal profession and put his background in computer tech to work to create an AI platform that both recognizes the unique challenges facing lawyers – including security and confidentiality – while speeding workflow and maximizing output.  AI has been put to work in a lot of "lawyer-adjacent” areas of law such as web design, intake, and billing, but Brittenham recognized the need for a model that helps lawyers practice actual law.  He says AI won't replace lawyers, but it may change how lawyers are viewed. If AI can automate mundane tasks, such as drafting paperwork, attorneys may be able to get back to their traditional role of a true “counsellor,” providing meaningful guidance. Hear about what's coming in the future and, more importantly, what's here now. Start slowly, learn the state-by-state rules, and see where you can get in the game. If you've been curious about AI and how it will change the practice of law, you'll want to catch this episode.  Mentioned in This Episode: Join the next Community Table live. What's on your mind?  “The Singularity Is Nearer: When We Merge with AI,” by Ray Kurzweil  “The Singularity Is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology,” by Ray Kurzweil  ChatGPT Microsoft Copilot AI Clio legal software LexisNexis ThomsonReuters CoCounsel AI

Listen to this episode commercial free at https://angryplanetpod.comThe futures of the past have curdled into the nightmares of the present. The richest and most powerful people the world has ever known want to colonize mars, live forever, and digitize human consciousness. To make these technological miracles come to pass, they say, will require people to dramatically change the way they live and work. Will it be worth it? Does science even say it's possible?On this Angry Planet, astrophysicist and author Adam Becker joins us to explain all the problems with Silicon Valley's dreams of the future. It's not a short list. Much of the tech, and even the physics, don't work the way techno-utopians say it does. Some of the people hawking robot slaves and immortality are chasing the impossible for tragic personal reasons. Others are just trying to sell you something. It's all the subject of Becker's new book: More Everything Forever.ShareFranics Fukuyama and the end of everything“Death is the ultimate limit, the ultimate loss of control.”Moore's law, the singularity, and Ray Kurzweil's fatherThe Face on Mars and large language modelsElizas all the way downThe false binaries of the tech bro futureSilicon Valley's lost boys“Death is avoidable and taxation is theft.”Stasis for me but not for thee“Mars sucks”Against Life Extension by Francis FukuyamaMore Everything Forever on BookshopMore Everything Forever on AmazonSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/warcollege. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of Hashtag Trending, titled 'The Inflection Point: AI's Gentle Singularity and the Security Conundrum', the hosts grapple with planning their show amidst rapid technological changes and delve into a blog post by Sam Altman on the 'Gentle Singularity.' The discussion touches on concepts from astrophysics and AI, explaining the singularity where AI progresses beyond human control. Historical AI figure Ray Kurzweil is mentioned for his predictive insights. They explore how large language models mimic human behavior, their strengths in emotional intelligence, and the inevitable march towards superintelligence. This technological optimism is countered with a serious look at security flaws in AI models and real-world examples of corporate negligence. They highlight the critical need for integrating security into AI development to prevent exploitation. The episode concludes with a contemplation of human nature, the ethics of business, and an advocacy for using AI's potential responsibly. 00:00 Introduction and Show Planning 00:20 Discussing Sam Altman's Gentle Singularity 01:06 Ray Kurzweil and the Concept of Singularity 02:41 Human-Machine Integration and Event Horizon 05:02 AI Hallucinations and Human Creativity 09:02 Capabilities and Limitations of Large Language Models 10:27 AI's Role in Future Productivity and Quality of Life 13:02 Debating AI Consciousness and Singularity 25:51 Security Concerns in AI Development 30:57 Hacking the Human Brain: Elections and Persuasion 31:16 Understanding AI Models and Security 33:04 The Role of CISOs in Modern Security 34:43 Steganography and Prompt Injection 37:26 AI in Automation and Security Challenges 38:47 Crime as a Business: The Reality of Cybersecurity 40:47 Balancing Speed and Security in AI Development 51:06 Corporate Responsibility and Ethical Leadership 55:29 The Future of AI and Human Values

I have known Skip Vaccarello for more than 12 years. When we first met both Skip and I lived in Northern California. Neither of us seem to remember the event at which we met, but we both discovered that we were people of faith. Over the years we lost touch until early January 2025 when I received a bulk email from Skip and reached out to see if we could get him to come on Unstoppable Mindset. He accepted and today's episode is the result.   Skip has over 40 years of experience leading Silicon Valley high tech companies. One of his first efforts was leading VisiCorp, the creator of the industry's first pc-based spreadsheet VisiCalc. What? You never heard of VisiCalc? Look it up. VisiCalc was one of those products that revolutionized so many endeavors.   In addition to leading and working with many Silicon Valley ventures Skip is a man of faith with a deep belief in Christianity. We talk about Skip's fait journey and why he believes faith makes a big difference in the lives of so many people especially in the high-tech world of Silicon Valley.   We talk a bit about Skip's retirement years and what he would advise anyone when they ask him about retirement. His answer may well surprise you, but his response is spot on and quite thought provoking.   I believe you will find Skip's insights fascinating and well worth the listen.       About the Guest:   Skip offers podcasts on faith and business topics at SkipVaccarello.com, and is a Partner with 1Flourish Capital, a venture firm investing in technology-based start-up companies led by entrepreneurs of character who understand that corporate culture is vital to success. He is also the author of Finding God in Silicon Valley:  Spiritual Journeys in a High-Tech World. From 2005 through 2021, Skip led  Connect Silicon Valley, a non-profit organization offering speaking events featuring high-profile leaders encouraging conversations about faith and life. In addition, he has served on corporate and non-profit boards and speaks at various organizations on leadership and organizational health.   Skip has over 40 years of experience in leadership positions for Silicon Valley technology companies, including VisiCorp, the provider of VisiCalc, the industry's first spreadsheet. In addition, he served as President and CEO of Applied Weather Technology, a global company providing software and services to the maritime industry. His other experience includes CEO of Communications Solutions, Inc., a communications software company; division general manager of 3Com, a networking product and solutions company; and co-founder and CEO of The Saratoga Group, an Internet-based training company. In addition, Skip has served as an executive coach, a merger and acquisition consultant, and for three years, taught a course on Principled Leadership and Ethics as an Adjunct Professor in the MBA program at William Jessup University.   He earned an A.B. with honors in economics from Harvard College and an MBA with honors from the Boston University School of Management. Skip has been married for over 44 years and has two daughters and six grandchildren. Skip and his wife reside in Bristol, NH and have a home in Chapel Hill, NC. Ways to connect Skip:   Website, Skip Vaccarello -- https://skipvaccarello.com/ Podcasts -- https://skipvaccarello.com/podcasts/ Podcasts on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@skipvaccarello Podcasts on Apple:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/who-do-you-want-to-become/id1737471615 LinkedIn -- https://www.linkedin.com/in/skip-vaccarello-50114/ Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/skipvaccarello Book (Amazon) -- https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Silicon-Valley-Spiritual-Journeys-High-Tech/dp/0996371923/ref=sr_1_1?crid=CYTLPJWTA4EA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.XlOGN69ci4cxDNHGjoi-JuD6ISwr4bFCY65xSabhw59got9YrjbPWyBlSgWLjuFi6IlTA5ZOM3PI6YIg7LMkVFA3-yicQ-VXc1rBHHgDi3xyo7FeIiH80ZEm9FOEUglAwOtKx3OhnXkJc3uSq4YGINJzgGTpHsoyAA1-awAGK0-BdSo8l8c9KgO7rkwwqftSaRDi9H2bQjMrgMvEHYQcjq7cHTZn0cthcSjrexplqk4.IyefTEA2Au7cl-nPpjb6_CBqiRn5kgQnZ-eUCT4qJWE&dib_tag=se&keywords=finding+god+in+silicon+valley&qid=1737478219&sprefix=finding+God+in+sil%2Caps%2C104&sr=8-1   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today is a fun day for me, because I get to talk with a gentleman who I met many years ago. His name is Skip, Vaccarello and Skip and I we were just trying to remember where we met. It was at some event in San Francisco, and I am now not remembering what it was, but anyway, we met and got to know each other pretty well, and we've talked over the years about faith in God and a variety of things like that. Skip wrote a book entitled finding God in Silicon Valley. We'll have to talk about that. Skip, because Ray Kurzweil keeps talking about the fact that at some point the singularity is going to hit and we're going to marry computer chips in people's brains. I'm not convinced about that. I'm not sure, but Skip, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Well,   Skip Vaccarello ** 02:16 Michael, it's such a pleasure to be with you, and I'm glad that we were able to make the acquaintance again after many years. Thank you. Thank you.   Michael Hingson ** 02:24 And now you're not in California anymore. You're back in New Hampshire.   Skip Vaccarello ** 02:28 No. Oh, well, I split my time between New Hampshire and North Carolina. Yeah, yeah. So I'm in North Carolina now. We were in I lived in Silicon Valley for 42 years, I think, is what it was, and but we moved grandchildren left, or my daughters and grandchildren left, one to the state of Washington and one to North Carolina. So we decided to go to go to North Carolina. So we live in Chapel Hill, North Carolina and and a lake in New Hampshire. What lake? It's called newfound lake. It's close to Lake Winnipesaukee. It's less lesser known than some of those. Yeah, we've had a house there for many years, and love it.   Michael Hingson ** 03:06 I spent time in and around Lake wind and Pesach. That was a lot of fun.   Skip Vaccarello ** 03:10 Oh, yeah, yeah, the lakes are just beautiful, crystal clear water and and it's a real, real nice area. I had   Michael Hingson ** 03:17 a friend who had a summer home on an island out in the middle of Lake Winnipesaukee. And I remember that when we first went there, you had to go out to the to the home by boat. And it was so nice, because at night time there was absolutely no sound. It was so quiet. I loved it. Yeah,   Skip Vaccarello ** 03:35 yeah. In the sky was you probably could see all the stars in the sky too. I would imagine,   Michael Hingson ** 03:39 oh yeah, I'm sure, yeah.   Skip Vaccarello ** 03:43 But beautiful, beautiful place, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 03:46 I'd love to get back there. At some point, we'll have to do that and and go visit it. Well, tell us, tell us a little bit about the early skip, growing up and all that sort of stuff, if you would, sure.   Skip Vaccarello ** 03:57 Well, I grew up in the in the Boston area. You probably, people will probably detect a little bit of my Boston accents, a little bit. So I grew up there. I grew up, grew up just outside of Boston. And where did you grow up? I grew up in Waltham. Was the time in Waltham, okay, grew up in Waltham, and I went to school there. I went to undergraduate school at Harvard and graduate school at Boston University and, and you love, love the area. So that's, anyway, that's where I grew up. I was, we have family of there are four of us. I was the first boy, and pretty involved in sports and, you know, as a reasonable student. But enjoy the area. And it's, it's nice, you know, coming back when I have the chance, you know, going to New Hampshire, I still enjoy the city of Boston. It's a wonderful   Michael Hingson ** 04:42 city. Do you ever go by and visit the Harvard coop?   Skip Vaccarello ** 04:47 Oh yeah, oh yeah. And especially if I'm at a reunion, I'll go there and pick up some paraphernalia, that's for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 04:57 Well, I there was another place in. Are there that I like to go to, because I collect old records, cheapo records, and so I went there to got a lot of vinyl records and and things like that. I'm not sure if it's still around or not. I heard somewhere it wasn't, but then somebody else said it was still around.   Skip Vaccarello ** 05:13 Interesting. Your vinyl records? I mean, there are collectors item now,   Michael Hingson ** 05:16 oh yeah, well, I have a whole bunch here. So they're, they're fun.   Skip Vaccarello ** 05:23 Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I remember collecting some as a kid, but if you have some, you're probably worth a lot of money. Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 05:30 I do. I even have a few. I bought duplicates of and they're still sealed. So they're probably worth, they probably are. They're definitely worth something, absolutely well, so you went to Harvard and all that. And then what did you do?   Skip Vaccarello ** 05:44 Well for my career? Yeah, I went, I went to Harvard. I was there in the in the late 60s and early 70s. And your listeners may recall from history that was a time of real turmoil. Oh, yeah, yeah. The war in Vietnam was going on. 1968 was sort of a pivotal year that there was a war in Vietnam. There were racial riots in the city. There was the rise of feminism. You know, drugs were rampant on the college campuses, so I went to school in the midst of that, and I'll have to say it really was not a fun time to be in school, although I made good friends, and we've maintained the friendship for for quite a long time, but, but anyway, so I was there, and when I graduated, I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And it was, it was interesting, because there had been a study done of my class at Harvard, and many people, you know, didn't know what to do. Some immediately went on to medical school or law school or something. But then there were a group of us that were, you know, just kind of wandering around and did various things. But anyway, I finally got my my first job. Well, one thing I should say is that I always felt an inclination for business, but business and capitalism at that time was, was kind of on the outs. It was bad words, bad word, bad word. But I kind of I enjoyed business anyway, I took a job. My first job was in a nonprofit organization helping mentally handicapped adults, and I was doing the sort of the business activities. And so I was doing what I want and doing something that I felt was socially useful. And I ended up staying in that that area for around seven years one of them was with a sort of a bigger organization. I ended up being the Assistant Executive Director. Then I was asked to start one, and I refer to her as my very first startup. We had taken over an old school building and renovated it and and began a program for these for the mentally handicapped people. It was a lot of fun to do that. So I did that. And then what happened is we would get contract work to help employ people. And one of the pieces of work we got was from a software companies. This was in 1978 1979 and personal computers were just cut out then. I mean, there are games and nothing much very useful. But anyway, we got a little job to package some games. And some of your listeners may not, may not remember this. Michael, you probably do. But software then on personal computers came on audio cassettes. Hard to believe you'd have to load this cassette into the computer and run it so that. So we, we had the job of kind of packaging these with the manual. And the night is I got to know the founder of the company and one of the founders of the company. He showed something that was in the works, which was a spreadsheet that eventually became known as VisiCalc, the very first spreadsheet in the industry. And then he asked me to join him and the other co founder, who was from the Toronto area, and we moved to Silicon Valley. And during that time I was I was really ready to make a change. Wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I was fascinated with personal computers. So went to Silicon Valley, and it was an amazing place. During the whole personal computer revolution, small industry, traveled around the country, you know, giving out, you know, demonstrating what a spreadsheet could do. And people were fascinated with that we had, I remember one day we had this sort of nerdy kid came into the office. It was Bill Gates. We had about five employees, and the whole industry was really small then, so it's fun to be part of that. And then for from there is sort of the what happens in in Silicon Valley and technology business, visit Corp was a really hot commodity, and then competition came in. They made some mistakes. They bought a company that specialized in network and communications, and I went over as the as the CEO and president of that we eventually spun it out as visit Corp eventually went out of business, but this little company we had, and we were successful and grew it, and in fact, sold that three different times, and, you know, continue to grow the company. And then I left that to have what I'd call my second startup, and this was to do computer based training to try to teach people. Of technical subjects on a computer, and that ended up morphing into one of the first e learning companies. So we did that, and that was that was a lot of fun, eventually sold that I did a little bit of executive coaching and mentoring. And one of the CEOs that I was mentoring asked me to join his organization, which was called applied weather technology. And I should say, I knew, in most cases, I really knew very little about the domain that I was going into, but I think pretty good business sense. So in this case, the company had software and services for the maritime industry, so we would help captains have the safest, most fuel efficient route to take around the world. So it was, it was really an interesting business. So I did that. I said I'd do it for a year. We ended up doing it for four years, and it was exciting and fun to be part of that. And they had a chance to travel around the world. We had offices around the world. So enjoyed that experience. And then then I left and to write the book that you mentioned finding God in Silicon Valley and and so anyway, that's what I ended up leaving that eventually got involved to help start a venture capital firm, a faith based venture capital firm called one flourish capital. So anyway, so that's a little bit of the background. There's a lot more I could talk about that, but that but that kind of gives your audience a little bit of an overview. I hadn't   Michael Hingson ** 11:26 thought about it for a while, but you mentioned the software back in 1979 80 and so on, all being put on audio cassettes. I remember the original Kurzweil Reading Machine for the blind used a Data General Nova three, so a small micro computer, well, kind of more like a mini computer, but it had a cassette recorder in the front of it, and every time you turn the reading machine on, you had to run the cassette to reload the Software, because there was no disk storage or anything available yet, right? And, okay, continue. I'm just saying so it was, it was kind of fun. It didn't take too long, and it and it really did work. I think once or twice there was some sort of a load error, and you had to start it over again. But really that didn't happen very often. It was, it was pretty good. Yeah,   Skip Vaccarello ** 12:22 it was really interesting. I just threw one sort of funny story we had. Remember, we had a product that was returned to us and we couldn't figure out what was wrong. I forget what it was. Was probably one of the games we had, the best selling game, which was called micro chest anyway, decided to just put it into a an audio player. So he put the cassette in, and what we heard was a sermon by, I think it was a Baptist preacher, and so, and it was labeled, I think it was labeled micro chess. So anyway, the duplicator had, had messed it up. And so this, this pastor probably got our little beeps and beeps instead of his instead of his sermon. So it was kind of it was kind of   Michael Hingson ** 13:07 comical. I remember once I took one of the program cassettes and put it in my cassette recorder because I was really curious to to hear what it sounded like. And I had heard military teletypes and so on in the past. And when I heard this, I went, Ah, those teletypes are really slow compared to the code speed on these cassettes. But it was, it was a lot of fun,   Skip Vaccarello ** 13:31 yeah. Well, it's fun for me to be involved in all the changes. Their changes was so rapid in Silicon Valley. So I really appreciated my opportunity to be involved in all of that for the 40 some odd years that I was,   Michael Hingson ** 13:46 well, yeah, and, and it, and it certainly was rewarding. You were pretty successful at it, and it all worked really, really worked out well. And so, you know, can't complain about that. What, what got you into the whole idea of doing more faith based things? Was that going back to childhood? Or how did all that come? Yeah,   Skip Vaccarello ** 14:10 I'll give you maybe a little bit of my my faith and story. So I grew up in a Christian home. We were I was raised as a Catholic, and as I said, when I went to college, though, there was all sorts of turmoil, and many of us rejected all sorts of things, including in faith. So it became and I can't say that I rejected it, but it just didn't. Wasn't very meaningful to me. I didn't think about it, I didn't pray, I didn't read the Bible. But if you were to ask me, I would have called myself a Christian, but certainly wasn't, wasn't practicing any of that. And then I when I was, I'm, this is maybe so that was that went on for about 15 years, or then I remember there was, we had, then children, a couple of children. And I remember I was in a business trip. I was in Paris, and I called home and I asked. My wife, Jackie, I said, Well, what did you do for the weekend? And she said, Well, I went to church. I said, You did what? That wasn't even in our conversation, and I was just so surprised that that's what she did. She said, Yeah, and she found it really helpful. And so anyway, when I came back, I followed her along and went to church. And I also found the messages really, meaningful. And anyway, I started to go, and then I decided this, I have to figure out if this stuff is really true or not. So I spent a fair amount of time, you know, listening to the sermons, but also looking at the evidence for Christian faith. And I became convinced that that Jesus is who He says He is. And so that at that point, I committed my, you know, my life to Him, and it became the most important thing in my life. And really, God, put two things on my heart once I made that and this was mid 80s by 1985 1986 two things on my heart. One was to do the best job I could, to try to live out my faith in business. And the second thing was to help people know who Jesus is. I was convinced that was this sort of the key to life, and so I enjoyed getting involved in in one on one conversations. And anyway, that ended up leading to starting with a group of people, what we eventually called the Silicon Valley prayer breakfast, and now it's called Connect Silicon Valley, feeling that, especially in Silicon Valley, you know, people may not go to go to a church. They may for a variety of reasons, you know, not want to even consider faith. But if there were a speaking event in which there was some celebrity, especially celebrities from the computer industry talking about their business, but also about their faith that might attract people. So that was the sort of the premise with which we started the Silicon Valley prayer breakfast, specifically for people who not were not necessarily your faith, but maybe curious about it. So we had series of great, great speakers. And it grew from, I think our first event was about 150 people, and in the last event, which I and then I the pandemic came, and we had about 1000 people at the at the last event. So it really grew. In fact, the people at there was one, it was at the Santa Clara Convention Center. They said it was the biggest event that they had at that time of the morning would start the event at 730 in the morning. So anyway, that's that was really helpful. And we and we just did that help open up conversations about faith and and it was, is, I think it was pretty successful doing that. So anyway, that was a little bit of of my background. And maybe one thing I didn't say, but I had this sense, you know, as I grew up, my family, we didn't have very much money, and but as I began to achieve some success and some financial success, I realized that it seemed like there was something missing in my life, and and later on, I learned, and I didn't know this at the time, Blaise Pascal called that a God shaped vacuum, or void that's in each one of us, and most people try to fill it with success or money or whatever else. But as Pascal says, and I agree, the only thing that can adequately fill that void is God. And I didn't know it, but that was ended up being, being true for me. I felt that there was that there was something missing, and life wasn't all about, you know, success and finances and and anyway, I'm glad that I took that journey. I'm glad for the people that helped me along in that journey to become a follower of Jesus. I   Michael Hingson ** 18:39 hear you. I know for me, I've, I've always had, I think, a pretty strong faith. My father and I talked a lot about God and religion and so on as I was growing up, and he read things to me, so I was, was pretty used to the whole concept right from the outset and and one of the things that I learned along the way, and I think it fits in fits into what you just said, is, as you said, people try to fill that, that void with so many different things. And the thing we never do is we never listen. And the thing that frustrates me most about prayer is that people are so busy praying to God about what they want that they forget God already knows. The issue is, are we really willing and and are we? Are we ready to take the time to listen, to get the answers?   Skip Vaccarello ** 19:38 And that is such a good point. Michael, I absolutely no, that's the issue. Go ahead. No, as I say, I agree with you that, you know that a lot of us and I do this time to time, I just pray, okay, that's it, but taking the time to then listen, and then, if you really are aware of it, you know, you'll see various things along the way where God is is communicating. Creating with you, either through other people and things that your opportunities, you're presented with, and so on. So it's that whole idea, I think in the Bible, it talks about praying continually, and in my own myself, I kind of have an ongoing, just a dialog in my head. Well, God, what do I do in this situation or or thank him for something I see, or whatever, but, but, yeah, that whole idea of just being aware and listening is a very important one. Yes, very good point. Thank you.   Michael Hingson ** 20:29 Well, and one of the things that we talked a lot about as I was growing up was the fact that, yes, we believe in God, we believe in Jesus and so on. But there are other religions that really, when you analyze them, come essentially to the same place. They're peaceful, they're loving. And unfortunately, we have all too many people who say there's only one religion that works, and that just isn't so either. Well, I I think that there, there there are issues, but the fact is that there are a lot of people who believe in God, and come at it from a different point of view, but still believe in God.   Skip Vaccarello ** 21:10 When I agree, I think that there is there the lot of there's a lot of commonality among all the world religions, and there's a most of them all have a moral code to them. In fact, the Golden Rule, do unto others, as you would have them do unto you, is common to all religions, but at the same time, there are also some real differences. And you know, it's interesting where you know what you said, and many other people say that, that there are many different paths to God. But typically, if you were to ask anyone in any one of those religions, they would say, know that if it's a Muslim, I think that we have the path or Jewish person, right? You know, you know, and so on. And so I would encourage people to, I mean, you may not like this idea, but, you know, I would, I would, I believe that really, I mean, I'm covering this in an upcoming podcast, that that Jesus is, is, is the way. I mean, he's the only, the only one in a in any of these world religions, most, or most world religions, you know, say that, that we have to sort of earn our way. You know, to salvation. Am I a good enough person to earn eternal life? Whereas with Jesus, the other way around, he wants us. He's very, very inclusive and and offers his love and His forgiveness to everyone. And you know, he says, you know, in John 14 six, I am the I Am the Truth or way in the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me. So it's a that is an exclusive statement, but it also Christian faith is inclusive anyone who wants to come. It's not, you know, is is ready to come. So we probably don't want to get into that too much. But, no,   Michael Hingson ** 23:01 I don't, not too much. But by the same token, I take it in a little bit different slant. Not I don't I agree with what you said, but I also know that I am goes beyond what we're talking about. God in in Exodus And Moses said, Who do I say? Is Sending me? Says I am, that I am, thou shalt say I am, has sent me to you. And I think we I think a lot of people miss that, and they miss the fact that I am is, is God,   Skip Vaccarello ** 23:33 yeah. However, where is your way? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 23:38 yeah. And I think that that's the thing, and I think that that was what Jesus was saying as well. Because Jesus also said, I am my father. Are One. And all the works that I do, greater works you can do as well. I think we, what we, what we really need to do is to recognize that, in fact, from a mindset standpoint, it's ultimately believing in God. And if you're an atheist, that's fine. Sorry if we're offending you, but that, that's a different story. But I but I do know that that in reality, we all need to recognize that if we listen, if we really work at it. We can be better people than than we probably think we are.   Skip Vaccarello ** 24:24 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that that is the you know. The point of it is, is, you know, to be, you know, the, you know, the message of Jesus is one of love. I mean, he loves everyone, and we're called, you know, to love everyone. That that means not just fellow Christians, but no matter what faith you're part of, or whatever you know you may have done or do or whatever. Yeah, we're called to love everyone. You think how different the world would be if we all really acted that way?   Michael Hingson ** 24:53 Gee, wouldn't that be something, especially today, right? And it's absolutely, yeah. Yeah, absolutely crazy. So the prayer breakfast and so on, kind of, I assume, ended when the pandemic began. Well,   Skip Vaccarello ** 25:08 it did for a while, yeah, but there is a group that that's that's restarted it, and we, by the way, we changed the name from Silicon Valley prayer breakfast, and a few years ago, we changed to connect Silicon Valley, and we did that because we really wanted to be open to people. It's not an event just for Christians, but for anybody that was interested in in attending. So it is active, and in fact, it's, it's now had a I'm only minimally involved, and they've made me Chairman Emeritus, but, but there's, there's a new group that's running it, and they've had several different events. So it is, is going on, if any of your listeners are in and around Silicon Valley, it's called Connect Silicon Valley, and I'd encourage them to go. I think they have a speaker that we had earlier. It's coming up in March. I think it's promote. Hawk. Promote is a one of the top venture capitalists in the world. He's with Norwest ventures, and I think he's, he's a speaker at an event that's coming up in a few weeks.   Michael Hingson ** 26:10 I may end up being in San Francisco, but not till May. I'll have to find out when they meet and see if there's a way to get down there. Be kind of fun.   26:17 Yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 26:19 But it's, I think faith in and having beliefs as extremely important to do. And one of the things that I always quote when I am giving speeches is something Jimmy Carter once said, which is, we must adjust to changing times while holding to unwavering principles. And I think that all too often we we miss the principles part.   Skip Vaccarello ** 26:45 Yeah, that's right, I agree, Yep, yeah, absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 26:51 It is something that we need to do. Well, I'm glad that connect Silicon Valley is is still continuing to function. That's really a pretty important thing to do. Well, when did your   Skip Vaccarello ** 27:04 I think it is especially in, you know, in Silicon Valley, which is a pretty secular place, yeah, you know. And I think it's a secular place because, you know, it's, it attracts a lot of people with Type A personalities, people that are feeling very self sufficient. And why do I need, why do I need God? But, but it's been interesting. I really feel that there's a movement of God going on in Silicon Valley, and it has been for a while. And you know, what's kind of motivated us, our vision with Connect Silicon Valley was that if Silicon Valley ever could be known as a place not just of technology and innovation and wealth creation, but a place of God, the world would take notice, and to me, there's lots of evidence that that's beginning to happen.   Michael Hingson ** 27:48 Yeah, well, I think that's true. And sometimes we're not necessarily hearing a loud voice, but the voice is still there, and more and more people are going to get drawn to it, I'm sure.   Skip Vaccarello ** 28:01 Well, I think so. I mean, ultimately, as we said earlier, I think each one of us has a sense of a need for something beyond ourselves, and people might call it a force or a god or whatever else, and, and so I think there is that need and and, and hopefully, I would encourage your listeners, you know, to explore the evidence for faith to, you know, take a risk. And, you know, people might have been turned off by religious people, and I can understand that. But, you know, take look at it. And I would specifically say, Look at what, what Jesus has to say. And take, take the time to look at the evidence, because there's plenty of evidence out there for Christian faith.   Michael Hingson ** 28:41 I participated in a number of programs. It's a Methodist program, but it's ecumenical, called the walk to Emmaus. And have you heard of that? No, I haven't. It's It's actually called a short course in Christianity. It's not intended to convince people what they should believe, but rather it's to develop leadership within the church. Whatever church it doesn't, it doesn't, although it was started by the Methodist. Actually, that's an outgrowth of a Catholic program called crusio, but it's the same thing. And when I was lay director of one of the walks to Emmaus, and we could talk about the history, but walk to Emmaus is basically based on after Jesus was crucified and Rose. That day, there were people walking to a town called Emmaus, and he joined them, and they didn't know who he was, and they talked, and they all went to to Emmaus, and they sat down and they had dinner. And it was a dinner that He revealed Himself to them, and then he disappeared. But the whole idea is, it's a way to bring a little bit more enlightenment to leaders. But one of the things that, as the lay director, I had to do was to give a talk on perseverance and so on. And of course. Thought that has always struck with me, and I think it goes beyond Christianity, Christianity, but Tolstoy once said The biggest problem with Christianity is a lot of people don't practice it. There's truth to that. And what you you know you said earlier that so many people and are not necessarily the best Christians, and there's so much of that we really need to go back to basics and everything that we do.   Skip Vaccarello ** 30:28 Yeah, I think that a lot of people get turned off to faith, or in Christian faith, because they look at the some of the behavior of people who claim to be Christians. And the fact is that every one of us is flawed in some ways, in one way or another. What I like to do is, is look at people who what was their life before they you know, they had Jesus in their life, and what's their life after that? And, and you can often see the difference. But people are we're all. We all make mistakes. We're all imperfect people, and, and, and in faith, the church is not for it's not for perfect people. It's for sinners, people that are imperfect. And that's that's really why, why? You know why Jesus came to us? So to why would you add encourage your listeners to try not to get turned off by some of the behavior of Christians, because some of it is, is certainly not good, but to really look at what Jesus says, and, you know, engage people who who are believers, and I think they admit that what's what's right and what's at fault and so on, the basic principles are the basic principles,   Michael Hingson ** 31:35 and they hold no matter where you come from and what you do. And it's important to really deal with that. Although I'm with Mark Twain, I wonder if God had written man because he was disappointed in the monkeys, but that's another story   31:49 I had heard that crook.   Michael Hingson ** 31:52 So, so you wrote the book finding God in Silicon Valley. When did you write that?   Skip Vaccarello ** 31:56 It was, it was published in 2015   Michael Hingson ** 32:00 Okay, and   Skip Vaccarello ** 32:02 it's been, yeah, it really was an outgrowth of some of the talks people gave at the Silicon Valley prayer breakfast. And I felt that it really the reason for writing. It was to encourage people to to consider faith, because in the book, they'd read about Silicon Valley leaders who in their faith story, how they came to faith, what they went through. Some, you know, some stories were a little bit like mine, where they found the evidence, but others, you know, went through personal tragedy and found faith that way. And then the stories are also about how they're trying to live out their faith, day to day, and whatever, whatever business they're involved with. So they're a variety of people. There are nonprofit leaders, companies, CEOs, venture capitalists and so on. And you know, it's, I think we all like to hear stories, and that was what was attractive about the Silicon Valley prayer breakfast. I know that sometimes when I'm sitting in church on a Sunday morning, and I may not quite remember what the pastor said, but I usually remember the stories that he tells. And so I think stories are an effective way to communicate things. In fact, I'd call Jesus the Greatest storyteller of all time. He told his stories often in parables. And those are things that we, you know, that we that we remember. So yeah, the the book was I what I enjoyed it. I just enjoyed is I just enjoyed sitting down with people and hearing their stories and interviewing them, and I did the best I could to compile those stories. There were 26 of them in the book, and yeah, it's it's available on on Amazon, so I encourage people to to pick it up and take a look. And you can go through with a person you know, or one story, or, you know, that seemed to attract your attention. So it was a, it was quite a, quite a project to undertake, but I'm glad that I did it. And let me just maybe the I'll tell you the way I got the idea is I went back to a Harvard reunion. This might have been in the mid 1990s and there was, they had a little sometimes at these reunions, they have little groups that get together. And there was one that I was as part of a Christian cohort, and even though I wasn't a Christian in college anyway, as part of this group. And we're all, we're given a book called Finding God at Harvard. And you know, although Harvard was founded as a, you know, as a, as a Christian college, it's certainly not thought of that these days. And so the writer Kelly Monroe, and she's now, her name is Kelly Monroe Kohlberg, had put together stories of Harvard graduates in how they came to faith and what they were doing. So I thought was a great book, and I so that's what planted the idea in my mind. I said, well, people don't think of Harvard as a place of of faith. They certainly don't think of Silicon Valley as that. So I had the idea, and this was in the mid 1990s but as I said, it wasn't published until 2015 because I found it was really difficult for me to work full time and write the book. So after I left my last full time position is when I had the time to write the book.   Michael Hingson ** 34:59 Well. Well, and I assume it's been pretty successful.   Skip Vaccarello ** 35:03 That's beyond, I think. So it's, I mean, I get some, you know, to me, successful is, if people have read it and they say, Yeah, you know, and you know, I'm considering faith. And to me, that's, that's the success of it. So it's, anyway, it was a, it was really quite an experience. And and happy to do it. And I'm still in the process. I'm looking at a couple of other books now, maybe following up with and writing.   Michael Hingson ** 35:30 Writing is fun, as you know, I've written, yeah, now three books, and I haven't figured out what to write next, but I'm sure something is going to come along. I haven't written fiction yet, and I haven't really come up with a a hot idea yet, but we'll see. It's kind of fun to think about,   Skip Vaccarello ** 35:50 sure, absolutely,   Michael Hingson ** 35:52 but, but, you know, we we we do what we can, and we keep moving forward, and that's what it's really about. But it is a lot of fun. And meanwhile, I do get to travel and speak, and I'm working with accessibe and helping to make internet websites more usable and inclusive. That's something that VisiCalc never did, was to make an accessible version of the product. But that's okay. That's okay. It took it took Excel and and other products a while before they became accessible, too. So not a problem. We, we, we all grow, which is what it's really about. But so what? What is your Well, let me ask it this way. So you wrote the book. You've retired and so on. What kind of projects do you have coming up, other than thinking about other books?   Skip Vaccarello ** 36:46 Well, a few things you know that I'm doing right now. As I mentioned, I was part of a startup venture capital coming company called one flourish capital, and I'm still a little bit involved, but not as involved as I was there on a second fund. And I was very involved in the first fund, so I spent a little bit of time with that, but I'm more engaged with things like, I love mentoring. I mentor some students, and mentor some entrepreneurs and and enjoy those those opportunities I've and as I said, I'm putting together a series of podcasts, not as active as you are in it, but I did a series last year, and I titled it, who do you want to become, encouraging people to put together a personal strategic plan. You know, when we're involved in business, is often the company does a strategic plan. Of you know, what's our vision, our mission, our values, our goals and so on. And something that I've practiced for many years is putting together a personal strategic plan. So some of that podcast series is just encouraging people to consider doing that, which again, give a clearer direction for where, where you want your life to go, where God wants your life life to go. So anyway, that was a podcast series, and right now I'm in the midst of of putting together series that I'm calling why I believe, exploring the critical questions about Christian faith. And so I'm going around interviewing experts on, you know, some of the tougher questions you know, you've we talked about one earlier, is Jesus the only way? Other questions, you know, what about what about heaven? How? Another question is, how could a loving God, you know, allow innocent people to suffer? So question, questions like that, that that are often stumbling blocks for people. And I know, question answering, questions like that was very helpful for me in my faith journey. So anyway, I'm in the process of of putting that podcast series, which I expect will be ready in April, and if your listeners are are interested, it'll be on, it's on skip, vacarello.com, so that's where you can find the first podcast series. The last name is V, A, C, C, A, R, E, L, L, O. So anyway, it's there. It's also it'll be on Spotify and Apple and YouTube. So anyway, so I'm involved in that, but I should also say that one of the important things that I do is we moved here to be close to her daughter and grandchildren. So I love spending the time, you know, with my grandchildren. And we just traveled out to Spokane, Washington to see the other family and and that's just, that's just so enjoyable. So while I'm actively involved in in doing things like that, I I, you know, love, you know, spending time with the grandchildren, and also I try to stay, you know, physically active. Still play some tennis and golf and pickleball, and, you know, it's so, you know it's and anyway, I'm involved in a lot of different things, and enjoy them. You   Michael Hingson ** 39:53 know, it's interesting. You were talking about the issue of, how could a loving God let any. And suffer. My reaction to that question, and I've heard it a lot, my reaction to that has always been, how could God not it's really an issue of we listen to God, and what did we miss along the way that would have prevented us from suffering, but God gave us free will and free choice.   Skip Vaccarello ** 40:18 That's exactly right. And so that is the crux of the issue. We have free choice. And you know, when some of those choices aren't good ones that we make, and grad doesn't force anything on any of us, and that was probably one of the things he gave us, was that we're free, free to choose, and we can choose bad or we can choose good,   Michael Hingson ** 40:37 yeah. And the question is, it's always the question, do we learn from mistakes that we made? And, you know, I have rejected the concept of failure. I think that failure is such a horrible thing to say. I think that there are things that don't work out. But did we fail that means we can't ever deal with it or do anything about it? Or can we take the time to analyze what didn't work right? And even when we did something and it worked out, could we do it better? That's one of the basic cruxes of live like a guide dog. My latest book, which is all about teaching people how to control fear, and the whole idea is that we don't take nearly enough time at the end of the day, or at some point in the day, to do more introspection and self analysis to understand why whatever happens to us happens to us, and what could we have done to make it have a better outcome, or even a or did we come up with The best outcome possible?   Skip Vaccarello ** 41:41 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely agree. What did we learn from it? I mean, you would see that time and time again. Some of the most successful people had many failures along the way, and you know, hopefully you're going to learn from that failure, and you're going to try something else, you're going to fail, and you're going to try something else and, and that's, I think that's just what goes on in life   Michael Hingson ** 42:02 well, and that's why I say that it isn't really a failure. It is a mistake, perhaps, right? We didn't intend for it to be a mistake, but, but if it, if it was a mistake, and we acknowledge that, why and what do we do about it? And I think that's one of the important things that so many of us could do a better job of thinking about was, why did this happen? What was I afraid of, or what could I have done differently? And the fact is that if we open our minds to those questions, we'll get the answers, yep, yep, I agree, which is, I think, really important.   Skip Vaccarello ** 42:41 I was listening to, I don't remember the I wish I could remember it, but I was watching something on television the other night, and there was a quote that kind of stuck with me, and it's in the quote we're doing something like this, is it was an encouragement of, I think it was a mother to a son. He said, Don't, don't think of what life has done to you. Think of what life has done for you. What we're talking about is you might have run into some difficulty, some okay, but maybe that's an opportunity to learn from it, and to go on and to do something else and and, you know, I think life, life is like that. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 43:15 you know, people talk to me a lot about the World Trade Center, and don't you have guilt of surviving while other people didn't, right? And and I tell people, no, I don't have any guilt about that, because the fact is, I did survive. Why others did not is is really, in part, possibly an issue of what choices they made. But the bottom line is, it isn't whether I feel guilty or not about surviving because I had no control over the World Trade Center happening. What I do have control over the though is how I deal with it and how I move forward, and that's the choice that I get to make.   Skip Vaccarello ** 43:56 Yeah, very good point,   Michael Hingson ** 43:59 which I think is really important. And someone asked me that just the other day, and then that was in this is the response that I gave, is, the reality is, it's we have no control over a lot of things that that may happen to us, but we do have total control over how we deal with it, no matter what it is, yeah,   Skip Vaccarello ** 44:19 and you think of it, the, you know, I'm sure, the lives that you've changed, you know, writing about that and talking about that with your speaking appearances, and it was such a tragedy that, you know, the 1000s of what was 1700 or 18, I don't remember the number, the number of people that died in that, and they're all 200 Yeah, 3200. Was all the people that were affected by it. You know, on the other hand, I mean stories like yours came out of that, and you've been an encouragement to many, many other people so that you know, you've, you know, taken advantage of that opportunity, and you've affected the lives of many, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 44:56 tell me more about what you're doing today with mentoring students and so on. More. How do you do that? Or how do they find you? How does that all work?   Skip Vaccarello ** 45:03 Well, I one of the things is I mentioned earlier that there's a whole bunch of things that have gone on in Silicon Valley where I where I really feel that that God is at work. And there was a guy that I got to know that I actually mentored him a little bit, and he founded an organization called scholars of finance. And it started in a and it's not a quote a Christian base, but it's a, it's sort of an ethics based organization. And his idea was to to go to college campuses and encourage people who were in finance, accounting, finance of some sort or another, to look at the ethical side of business. So he put together this thing called scholars of finance, and then they were started on maybe a couple of universities in the Bay Area. I think they now want maybe 70 campuses around the US and and he's so I've had the opportunity to speak at a number of those campuses, some in person, most of them virtually. And the idea is that they have people like me that come and speak and try to, you know, we tell stories, encourage people about, maybe the ethical issues that we ran across and, and how you can kind of navigate some of those issues and, and, and part of that whole program is, if you want to put yourself up to mentoring, you know you can have the opportunity to mentor some students. So I have, and I've had the opportunity, and I have the opportunity to mentor some students and and I really, I really love it. And what are the differences I find? I think that, you know, sometimes there are negative things that people say about college students these days, but one of the things that I find encouraging is that they're really open to to mentoring, to getting advice from an from an older generation. I remember when I was in school was what was the mantra that you don't trust anyone over 30, you know they don't know what they're talking about, but, but I find students these days are really looking for that for that advice and guidance and and so I enjoy when I have those opportunities to speak to people. And I would say also that a lot of these students are incredibly motivated and driven. And it's, it's just, it's interesting to see. It was, I think it was even different than than when I was in when I was in college. But anyway, that's that's kind of a fun thing to do. And then I also have entrepreneurs, people that either find me or, you know, that may be a company that we've invested in, that have an opportunity to help those, those entrepreneurs, with their business plans. And one of the, one of the areas I like to focus on is helping them develop the right culture. I think, to have a successful business, you have a successful business is you need a culture, you know, a positive culture that's encouraging to people. So, you know, I do that. I try to encourage them to start out and build the right culture. You know, in your organization, doesn't mean that business will succeed, you know, but that's one of the things I like to to help entrepreneurs consider as they're building a business. So it's not just about the product. Certainly, you need a product, and you need to market that product, and often you need technology to make a success. But ultimately, it's the people in that organization and how you deal with them, and how you deal with your customers, and how you deal with your vendors and so on that can can help make or break a business. So anyway, those are the the mentoring opportunities that I have, and as I say and do, enjoy   Michael Hingson ** 48:31 them. What are some of the typical questions that students ask that you find to be sort of common among a lot of students?   Skip Vaccarello ** 48:40 Well, they'll, they'll, you know, they'll sometimes ask me about, you know, ethical situations that I've come across. Often, they'll ask, since I've been involved in the in the venture capital business, is, you know, what is it? What is, what does a venture capitalist look like? You know, how can I get, get get funded? And that, that's sort of an ongoing topic of of conversation, and it's in that environment, you know, it certainly changes a lot over time, but that's a that's a common, a common side of it. You know, occasionally there'll be discussions on technology, and I'm not, even though I've been involved in Silicon Valley for a long time, not a technologist, and they're real, usually, typically very far advanced in that, in that side of things. But, you know, get questions on, you know, what's a go to market strategy? How do I, if I have this product, what do I, what do I do with it? And often, you know, just, you know, I get presented a business plan, what do you think about this, and you know, where can I make changes? And sometimes, you know, often they're very well done, but sometimes there might be some, some blind spots, things that they don't, that they don't see. And interestingly enough, and this is not, you know, something that that I push for, but some of the students then they, you know, they pick me up. Ask because they they've seen my bio, and I've had a number of students who were weren't brought up with any faith background, that asked me about faith and what was my story, and in what should I do to consider faith? So I, you know, I find that very interesting, and I'm very happy to answer any questions that they may have. So that's that's enjoyable when those opportunities come.   Michael Hingson ** 50:22 Yeah, it's kind of cool to be able to enter into those discussions and just talk a little bit about faith and what what they're looking for, and what you're looking for and so on. And getting a chance to in a in a non confrontive way, help people understand the value of faith, whatever that may end up being for them, I think is important to do, yeah,   Skip Vaccarello ** 50:50 and often, you know, I end up, well, I, well, I, you know, I'll offer things if they ask. But I usually what I like to do is just ask lots of questions to them. And I think it's very helpful, you know, where are they coming from? What are they considered? What are their experiences been? You know, especially if it's in the, in the faith environment. And I think it really helps open up conversations, when, when, when you end up not just being there as the, you know, as the advisor that knows everything, because certainly I don't, but it's very helpful, I think, as a method, as a mentor, is to ask lots of questions.   Michael Hingson ** 51:29 I love to have question time when I speak, because I find every so often I'll get a new question. It doesn't happen as often as it used to, but every so often, something new comes along and and or people ask questions in a different way. And what I really love about it is it helps me learn, because it makes me think, and I think that's as important as anything else. And as I tell people when I'm talking about speaking or doing these podcasts, if I'm not learning at least as much as anyone else on the podcast, or when I'm speaking, I'm not doing my job, right, right? Yeah,   Skip Vaccarello ** 52:05 I agree with you. Yeah. I think I learned more. You know, occasionally I'm asked to give a sermon at a church or a speak at a at a public place, and I think that I learned when you're I think I learned more than anything else when I'm when I'm gonna have to prepare for these, these opportunities, isn't it fun? Oh, it is. It certainly is.   Michael Hingson ** 52:26 Well, so you've been retired for a while. What kind of advice would you give to somebody who may be thinking about retiring?   Skip Vaccarello ** 52:34 Good question, you know, and it's funny sometimes people ask me that question, and I think that, well, I'm retired from making money, but I'm still pretty busy doing things. And that would be my encouragement to people, is to, you know, don't, don't just think you're going to go sit on a beach or or whatever else. I mean, I think that that can get boring pretty quickly. But, you know, and if I would say, continue to do what you're doing if you love it, you know. But consider what your maybe your spouse has to say, your children or grandchildren have to say, and and, you know, make sure you spend, spend time with with them. But my encouragement would be just is to keep busy, find activities. If it's in your case, or my case, has been doing some writing or podcasts, or, you know, whatever it is that you're passionate about, just just you have an opportunity now to do it, but also to take time for relationships. And one thing I didn't mention that is one thing I encouraged students to think about, it's really a question of life. Is life is about relationships. And you know, you want to hopefully along the way, people haven't sacrificed relationships. So you see that sometimes in business, where they sacrifice, you know, their family or other relationships for success in business. But you know, when you're retired is a time to eat, to deepen those those relationships, to really spend some time, you know, with with other people, so and and, as I say, to do things that you love. The other thing I'd say is, is to keep moving. You might I had a chance to visit my mom about a few weeks ago. She's in she's in Cape Cod, in Massachusetts, and she's 103 103 and a half. And three and a half and and people ask her, What's your key to longevity? And she says, Just keep moving. And although she's not physically as active, she tries to get up and keep moving. And she's also one that's and always keeps alert. She volunteered she's not, she hasn't, doesn't have the capacity to do that now, but up till about 9998 she was, she had volunteer activities going on. So, you know, stay engaged, keep keep moving, keep doing things and and anyway, that's my encouragement. Don't, you know, don't just think that it's going to be, you know, time at the beach, or certainly not time in front of the. Television, you know, keep moving, if you can, and keep keep mentally stimulated.   Michael Hingson ** 55:06 That's the real key. Is mental stimulation, I think is extremely important. Just I think retirement is, is overrated in terms of what it really or what people think it is. And I think mental stimulation is is an important thing. And when you're stopped working at a job full time, because it's time to not do that anymore, you should have more time to be able to develop the relationships stimulate your brain, keep your brain thinking, and maybe go off and look at doing things in a different direction. That always is a great challenge. Absolutely,   Skip Vaccarello ** 55:40 yeah, absolutely. It's a, it's a very, it's a neat time of life now. I mean, I enjoyed the time that I had while I was working, but, you know, when you retire, you have a little bit more freedom you had before. So, you know, but use it wisely. It's really true with anything we all, we all are given, you know, resources of various sorts, and time is one of the most valuable resources that we have. And you know, we're, you know, invested. Invest it wisely. Because, you know, life is life is short, and as I get older, realize how short life is, so invest that time wisely and and invest in relationships, as I say, is probably the most important   Michael Hingson ** 56:24 thing. Yeah, I think that's extremely crucial, and makes a lot of sense. And you'll meet people and find things that you never knew before, and you continue to learn, which is what it's all about. Yep, absolutely. Well, I want to thank you for spending an hour with us today, and in doing this, we'll have to do it again, and I think it'll be a lot of fun, but I really enjoy you being here and appreciate you taking the time   Skip Vaccarello ** 56:48 Well, Michael, thank you so much. I've enjoyed it. It's fun for us to to reappoint, yeah, yeah. And it's a it's a great conversation, and hopefully listeners will get some benefit from it, but I've enjoyed the time that I've that I've spent with you today again. Thanks. Thank you so much for having me.   Michael Hingson ** 57:06 Well, I hope all of you have enjoyed listening and watching us, and that you'll give us a five star rating wherever you're watching or hearing the podcast. We really appreciate five star ratings a lot. And just your thoughts. So if you have any thoughts about today's episode, please email me. I'm easy to reach. It's Michael H I M, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S i b, e.com, and if you want to subscribe to the podcast, do it wherever you're listening, or you can always go to Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o n.com/podcast, and I, and I hope you'll do that, but also skip for you and all, all people out there who are encountering our episode today, if you know of someone, including yourself, who might want to be or you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, I'd love you to reach out to me. We're always looking for more people to have on and talk about various things, and like I said, for me, in part, I get to learn what we do that. So we really appreciate you finding other guests for us. So don't ever hesitate to reach out and let us know if people we ought to interact with. But again, skip. I just want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun, and we really appreciate your time.   Skip Vaccarello ** 58:24 Michael, thank you again. Enjoy the rest of the day. Appreciate it.   Michael Hingson ** 58:32 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Our guest in this episode is Nate Soares, President of the Machine Intelligence Research Institute, or MIRI.MIRI was founded in 2000 as the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence by Eliezer Yudkowsky, with support from a couple of internet entrepreneurs. Among other things, it ran a series of conferences called the Singularity Summit. In 2012, Peter Diamandis and Ray Kurzweil, acquired the Singularity Summit, including the Singularity brand, and the Institute was renamed as MIRI.Nate joined MIRI in 2014 after working as a software engineer at Google, and since then he's been a key figure in the AI safety community. In a blogpost at the time he joined MIRI he observed “I turn my skills towards saving the universe, because apparently nobody ever got around to teaching me modesty.”MIRI has long had a fairly pessimistic stance on whether AI alignment is possible. In this episode, we'll explore what drives that view—and whether there is any room for hope.Selected follow-ups:Nate Soares - MIRIYudkowsky and Soares Announce Major New Book: “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies” - MIRIThe Bayesian model of probabilistic reasoningDuring safety testing, o1 broke out of its VM - RedditLeo Szilard - Physics WorldDavid Bowie - Five Years - Old Grey Whistle TestAmara's Law - IEEERobert Oppenheimer calculation of p(doom)JD Vance commenting on AI-2027SolidGoldMagikarp - LessWrongASMLChicago Pile-1 - WikipediaCastle Bravo - WikipediaMusic: Spike Protein, by Koi Discovery, available under CC0 1.0 Public Domain DeclarationReal Talk About MarketingAn Acxiom podcast where we discuss marketing made better, bringing you real...Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify Digital Disruption with Geoff Nielson Discover how technology is reshaping our lives and livelihoods.Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

PRESENTACIÓN LIBROS 00:01:45 La muy catastrófica visita al zoo (Joël Dicker) 00:03:20 Juliette (Camille Jourdy) 00:04:15 Happy Endings (Lucie Bryon) 00:05:05 Las gratitudes (Delphine de Vigan) 00:06:20 Apocalipsis (Stephen King) 00:08:00 La singularidad está más cerca (Ray Kurzweil) 00:09:55 Crímenes rurales (Las amigas estupendas) 00:12:15 Cuál es tu tormento (Sigrid Nunez) 00:13:35 Un lugar feliz (Emily Henry) 00:14:55 Casi nada que ponerte (Lucía Lijtmaer) 00:16:05 El mito del idealismo americano (Noam Chomsky) 00:18:10 El factor Rachel (Caroline O'Donoghue) 00:19:10 Todos en este tren son sospechosos (Benjamin Stevenson) 00:20:20 Tres (Dror Mishani) 00:22:10 Señoras bien; La soledad de la Reina; Ena (Pilar Eyre) 00:24:05 Deberes: La mujer de arriba (Freida McFadden) / Mi familia y otros animales (Gerard Durrell) PELÍCULAS 00:26:20 Lost in translation 00:28:00 Otro pequeño favor 00:28:35 Destino final: Lazos de Sangre 00:29:45 Matrimonio mortal en Carolina del Norte 00:32:40 La fuente de la eterna juventud 00:34:10 Fred & Rose West. Love & Murder 00:36:05 Historias para no contar 00:36:40 Misión Imposible: Sentencia Mortal, parte 2 00:38:10 La reina del baile 00:39:30 Matteo Lane: The Al Dente Special 00:40:00 Lilo & Stitch 00:41:00 La viuda negra 00:44:55 La maldición del colgante 00:46:25 Twisters 00:47:40 Ballerina SERIES 00:49:55 La canción 00:51:15 Prisoner of the Prophet 00:52:15 The killing of Dolores McCrea 00:53:55 Sirenas 00:55:45 Onision in real life 00:57:15 Los crímenes del Tetris 00:58:45 El diablo en la familia: la caída de Rubby Frankle 01:01:20 Fred & Rose West. Una historia británica de terror 01:02:55 El asesinato no resuelto de Beverly Lynn Smith 01:04:10 Los secretos que ocultamos 01:05:20 Felipe y Letizia 01:06:25 Citizen detective (T1) 01:07:50 Matlock (T1) 01:09:25 The Studio (T1) 01:11:00 Dept Q (T1) 01:12:55 Doctor Who (T2) OJO: ESPOILERS 01:16:00 Elsbeth (T2) 01:17:41 The last of us (T2) 01:18:20 Hacks (T4) 01:19:50 El cuento de la criada (T5) 01:22:05 Grey´s anatomy (T21) OJO: ESPOILERS 01:24:50 Deberes: Cuando nadie nos ve / Yellowjackets (T3) 01:27:20 DESPEDIDA En este programa suenan: Radical Opinion (Archers) / Siesta (Jahzzar) / Place on Fire (Creo) / I saw you on TV (Jahzzar) / Bicycle Waltz (Goobye Kumiko)

In this episode of 92NY Talks, join legendary futurist and inventor Ray Kurzweil for a mind-expanding conversation with tech visionary David S. Rose, exploring the astonishing implications of his new book, The Singularity Is Nearer: When We Merge with AI. The conversation was recorded on May 18th, 2025, at The 92nd Street Y, New York.

This episode and sources highlight a dynamic day in the world of artificial intelligence, showcasing significant advancements and industry shifts. Google dominated headlines with its I/O conference, unveiling "AI Mode" as the new default for Search and showcasing deeper Gemini integration across its products, including new Android XR smart glasses. Separately, Nvidia's CEO criticised the US chip ban aimed at China as a failure, while Apple reportedly plans to open its AI platform to developers, signalling a broader push for AI adoption across the tech landscape. Beyond major players, the sources also touched on AI for good initiatives, BMW's deployment of an AI agent for supply chain management, and news of a new AI-driven scientific discovery.

How is Japan bolstering its defenses in the Supply Chain War? Can the Japanese afford SDGs? Do you want your body injected with nano-tech interfacing with the cloud?SHOW NOTESJapan Wut 211 SongSUPPLY CHAIN WARJapan's KDDI and NEC to partner on supply chain, infrastructure cybersecurityJapan back-end chip companies form alliance to upgrade supply chainJapan to add undersea cables and satellites to critical supplies listJapan to ship CO2 emissions to Malaysia for storage undergroundThe Other Nuclear RaceToyota hydrogen boss warns that China will outpace rest of the world on H2 vehicle supply chainsChina urges Japan, South Korea and Asean to deepen cooperation amid trade war turbulenceChina auto parts makers triple in Thailand on EV battery rushManila, Beijing swap accusations over South China Sea incidentChinese coastguard claims ‘sovereign jurisdiction' of Sandy Cay in South China SeaApple's trying to build more iPhones in India, but China isn't cooperating: reportNorth Korean spy slips up, reveals ties in fake job interviewSOCIETY 5.0　Ray Kurzweil says we'll merge with AI non-invasively by the 2030s, using nanoscale sensors in the bloodstream that connect to the neocortexOpenAI offers to help countries build AI systemsA session on creating the future through AI, entrepreneurship and globalization with GoogleSakana AI Wins Award at US-Japan Competition for Defense Innovation

Send us a textJoin Professor Jeffrey Sachs and futurist Ray Kurzweil for a compelling conversation on the accelerating pace of technological change and its profound implications for the future of humanity. In his new book, The Singularity Is Nearer, Kurzweil revisits and updates his groundbreaking predictions on AI & AGI, exponential growth, and human evolution and longevity.Together, they explore a future where AI rivals human intelligence by 2029, nanotechnology rebuilds the world atom by atom, and our minds merge with the cloud to expand intelligence beyond biological limits. They examine radical life extension, the promise of renewable energy, and how exponential technologies are reshaping industries, reducing poverty, and transforming global well-being. But, they also confront the risks while discussing a vision of the future - both awe-inspiring and cautionary - challenging us to rethink what it means to be human in an age of rapid and relentless innovation.The Book Club with Jeffrey Sachs is brought to you by the SDG Academy, the flagship education initiative of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network. Learn more and get involved at bookclubwithjeffreysachs.org.Footnotes:AIAGI The Singularity is Near Dartmouth WorkshopMartin Kosinski NeuromedBiotechnologyFrank RosenblattPerceptronExponential Growth Turing TestLongevity Humanoid RobotsVirtual Reality NeocortexArtificial Consciousness⭐️ Thank you for listening!➡️ Sign up for the newsletter: https://bit.ly/subscribeBCJS➡️ Website: bookclubwithjeffreysachs.org

This is our first — and probably our last — episode where the guest has brought with him an actual punch card and proceeds to explain why it is, in fact, caca (which is Spanish for

In April of 1975, Communists succeeded in overwhelming their enemies to take over Vietnam. The last major city to fall was Saigon. That event is one of those historic times many remember who lived through it as well as those of us who only experienced it through Television and newspapers. Our guest today, Miki Nguyen, was six and a half years old when he and his family escaped from Saigon on a Chinook Helicopter piloted by his father.   Miki willingly tells us his story and that of his family who all escaped and came to America. Miki tells us of his growing up in a new land and how he eventually was given the opportunity to bring his father's story to life. Miki's dad wanted to write a book about what happened in 1975 as well as describing his life. He passed ten years ago and was unable to publish his book. Last year, Miki found his father's writings and undertook to bring his father's story to life. The book is entitled “The Last Flight Out”.   As Miki tells us the story of his family's flight from Saigon he also provides pictorial representations of what happened. If you watch this episode on YouTube you will get to see those pictures.   Personally, I can relate to Miki's story as in so many ways it parallels my own experiences on September 11, 2001. I hope you like and learn much from this week's episode. Let me know your thoughts please.       About the Guest:   Miki Nguyen is a storyteller dedicated to preserving the legacy of his father, Lieutenant Colonel Ba Van Nguyen, a heroic figure whose daring escape from Saigon during the Fall of Vietnam in 1975 was immortalized in the 2015 Oscar-nominated documentary Last Days in Vietnam. As the son of a South Vietnamese Air Force officer, Miki's life has been shaped by his family's extraordinary journey from the chaos of war to rebuilding their lives in America. Today, he shares stories of courage, sacrifice, and resilience in his late father's memoir "The Last Flight Out" to commemorate 50 years since the Fall of Saigon. Born into a world of upheaval, Miki witnessed firsthand the harrowing final days of the Vietnam War as a child, fleeing Saigon with his family in a dramatic helicopter evacuation to the USS Kirk. His father's bravery under fire and unwavering commitment to saving loved ones left an indelible mark on Miki, inspiring him to compile and share his father's stories decades later. Through The Last Flight Out, Miki bridges the past and present, offering readers an intimate glimpse into the sacrifices of war, the challenges of resettlement, and the quiet strength of his mother, Nho Nguyen, who anchored the family through unimaginable adversity. As a speaker, Miki captivates audiences with a narrative that transcends history, weaving universal themes of resilience, cultural identity, and leadership into his talks. Whether addressing corporate teams, educational institutions, on Podcasts, or cultural organizations, he draws parallels between his family's journey and modern-day challenges, emphasizing the power of hope and community in overcoming obstacles. His presentations, enriched with archival photos and personal anecdotes, resonate deeply with veterans, immigrants, and anyone seeking inspiration to navigate life's uncertainties. Miki is committed to amplifying his father's legacy and honoring the courageous individuals who shaped his family's journey—from Captain Paul Jacobs and the USS Kirk crew, whose heroism ensured their evacuation during Saigon's fall, to the Lutheran church members in Seattle who provided sanctuary and support as they rebuilt their lives in America. Through the memoir, speaking engagements, and other partnerships, Miki invites audiences to reflect on these unsung stories of courage and resilience while embracing a future defined by empathy and unity. Ways to connect Miki:   Email: mdn425@gmail.com / miki@nguyenvanba.com Website: https://nguyenvanba.com/miki/ Instagram: instagram.com/last.flight.out.nvb/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@mikinguyen44   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello everyone. Once again. Wherever you happen to be, I am your host, Mike Hingson, and you are listening to Unstoppable Mindset, mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, and as we've defined unexpected here on the podcast, it's anything that has to do with anything other than inclusion and diversity. A few weeks ago, I got an email from a friend of mine and someone I work with at yesterday usa.net it's a radio station that plays old radio shows all day, and anyway, Walden Hughes, who we really need to get on this podcast as well. Told me about Miki when, because Miki expressed, or Walden has expressed an interest in having Miki on yesterday USA, and Miki had an interesting story, and has an interesting story to tell, and I thought that it would be fun to bring him on to unstoppable mindset, because his father and family were basically, if you will, as you will hear on the last flight out of Saigon in Vietnam when that war ended in 1975 so that's 50 years ago. Anyway, Miki generously agreed to come on. And so here we are. So Miki, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Really appreciate it and looking forward to having a chance to chat.   Miki Ngyuen ** 02:47 Yeah, thank you, Michael, just really honored and appreciate the opportunity to be on your platform and to share with you in your audience, my father and my family story. The this is a story that has been told around the dinner table for many, many years. And as we are here now in early 2025 this marks, this will mark at the end of April here, coming up the 50 year remembrance, as you noted, the the fall of Saigon and so yeah, again, just really happy to be here. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 03:27 let's start as I love to do, and I know it kind of is part of the story, but tell us a little about kind of the early Miki growing up and and things that you might want to talk about from childhood and so on.   Miki Ngyuen ** 03:38 Yeah, I we in at the end of April, 1975 I was six and a half years old, and so, to answer your question, I grew up on a military base, basically my dad towards the end there, Lieutenant Colonel was a pilot for the south of Vietnamese Air Force, and he flew various Chinooks. The the one that we're referencing here is the the Chinook helicopter, CH 47 and so this is young childhood for me, growing up on the barracks, the oldest of three, three kids, brother Mecca and baby sister Mina. And this was a childhood where very curious about things the world around me, on the barracks, there were a lot of heavy artillery. And one story, my mom would sure it's a kid dragging home a box of of ammunition, just to say, you know, Hey, Mom, look what I found laying around. So this was a. In early childhood, growing up during a a war torn country back in those days,   Michael Hingson ** 05:07 yeah, certainly couldn't have been easy to do. So, what schooling did you have while you were still in Vietnam?   Miki Ngyuen ** 05:14 Oh, this is six, six and a half, just kind regarding kindergarten. Yeah, pretty, pretty much. So the Vietnamese that I was able to learn, you know, was just talking with parents, mom and dad, early kindergarten schooling. But otherwise, my Vietnamese now as an adult is not as strong as I would like it to be, but you know the reality of coming to America at six and a half seven. Grew up post war all American high school, so yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 05:53 now were your parents from Vietnam originally? Yes, yes. Okay, so it it had to be tough for you, and it had to really be tough for them, and I'm sure that they were worried about you and your brother and sister a lot and and dealing with all the things that you all had to deal with, that had to really be a challenge. Did they as as you were growing up in America and so on. Did they talk about, or want to talk much about, what your what your life was like, your heritage and so on, from Vietnam?   Miki Ngyuen ** 06:31 No, absolutely. It was my my father, my mom's philosophy, to always continue to keep our culture and our heritage and the things that you know was good about our culture, the Vietnamese culture, and to continue it forward while living, trying to assimilate and live here in in the United States. So growing up, it was straddling of both cultures, both Western and the Vietnamese Eastern culture as well, during our upbringing. And so it continues to be strong today, where for my own kids, you know, we continue to celebrate and our Vietnamese heritage and culture. Although American Vietnamese, I hold a US passport. My blood still runs with a lot of the Vietnamese culture that was raised on. It's   Michael Hingson ** 07:32 an interesting paradox, or paradox is probably the wrong word to use, but you have an interesting dichotomy you have to deal with. You're from Vietnam, you embrace the Vietnamese culture, but you live in America, and unfortunately, in our society today, we have a government that has been pushing so much on anything that isn't really American, isn't really American. And how do you how do you deal with that? What do you think about that, that whole concept, and that, ultimately, there are those who would say, well, you're you're not American because you didn't come from here, and that's a frustrating thing. But I'd be curious to get your thought, well, it's   Miki Ngyuen ** 08:17 to say it's a it's the same conversation as you know, the Ellis Island story, right? The only, the only folks that I would say that can claim that they're here with Native Americans, everybody else migrated either east or west, from Europe or from Asia or from the Middle East or Africa to get here. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 08:36 Yeah, it is. And from, from my thoughts and perspective, it's, it's a joy that you, you have two cultures to be able to celebrate and and work with, which gives you a broader perspective on the world as a whole. I grew up in America. I didn't really do a great job of learning foreign languages, although I took High School German and I learned some Spanish, and I actually took a year of Japanese in college. But still, my whole grounding is is in America, but I do love to go to other countries and see and get to experience other cultures, even though I know I don't live there, but I, and I do come back here, but I, but I think that what you bring is a great perspective for people to understand a whole part of the world that's different than what they're used To, which is a good thing.   Miki Ngyuen ** 09:41 Well, that's why they, they call America the great melting pot, right? We bring, we want to, we want to bring our best. We, you know, there can be conversations around refugees and immigration stories here and there, but. I think for the most part, you know, diverse cultures, different folks coming from other parts of the you know, we contributed to America, whether it be through bringing, you know, food or arts or ideologies, and that's what makes America, you know, strong, is just people bringing their best here. And sure, there's going to be negatives here and there. But you know, if we're come from a place of goodness, a place of positivity and working with each other. I think the spirit of America and the spirit of the great melting pot here can can continue to flourish and be strong from that standpoint. And   Michael Hingson ** 10:52 I and I think it absolutely is exactly what you said. It's the melting pot, it's the spirit, and that's what we need to remember, because that is what has always made this country so great, and will continue to, no matter what some may say. And I'm glad that we we have the the depth of overall culture, which really is made up of so many other cultures. When you got to America, what was it like then going to school here and finishing your growing up period here?   Miki Ngyuen ** 11:30 It was a, I don't want to use the word struggle. My parents struggled more. But for myself coming to the US here it was quickly to assimilate, you know, that's the word that just simply out of survival, simply out of just making friends and keeping the friends that, you know, I had growing up in first grade and second grade and so on. And growing up in the mid 70s here looking different than the rest of the white kids, you know, in elementary school, I got called all sorts of racial names, and so I know on your, you know, with your your message of disability, and   Miki Ngyuen ** 12:25 functioning in, you know, I had my own struggles as well in terms of just being different, you know, then, then the next kid in elementary school. So, but we learned to adapt, we learned to maneuver, and we learned to communicate and develop social skills to blend in, and again, that word assimilate, just to survive. So   Michael Hingson ** 12:51 where did you Where did you all settle once you got to the US? Where did you go to school? Oh,   Miki Ngyuen ** 12:58 so we're located here on the outskirts of Seattle, suburbs of Seattle area, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 13:06 I remember when so many people were coming over and from Vietnam, and they had some refugee encampments for A while. I was contacted by a church group, because at a local area near where I was attending college at the University of California at Irvine, there was such a place, and there was a blind person there, and they wanted to get this person, that was a young man, to meet blind people. So I went out. We even brought him a transistor radio. He didn't speak great English, but we were able to communicate. And that was probably the closest I came to dealing with, in a sense, all the things that all of you dealt with. So I but I do understand we as a collective society, sometimes don't really deal with difference as well as we ought to we we don't recognize that the very fact that we have some things that are difference is what makes us stronger when we embrace the fact that everyone has their own set of gifts and challenge and challenges to deal with, right? Exactly,   Miki Ngyuen ** 14:22 yeah, exactly. The just to provide more context, yeah, the there was a church across the crest, Lutheran Church here in Bellevue, out about 30 minutes from Seattle, that sponsored our family and yeah, that's how that's how we we ended up here in the story of my father and my my family was no the only thing different, because during the. April, end of April timeframe in 1975 the communists finally took over, as many of your audience know, you know, Saigon and the rest of Vietnam, and we had to, we had to get the heck out of there, because if my dad would have gotten captured by the communists, he would have been set in jail for a long time. And so our, our or worse, yes, exactly or worse, our, our family story is no different than anybody else's refugee boat people story coming out of Vietnam. The only difference was what my dad did as a pilot, what he did to to rescue our family and his crew's family and the maneuver that he executed at sea with a large Chinook helicopter, so much that it was was honored 10 years ago to share the same story with in an Oscar nominated film last year in Vietnam, written and produced by Rory Kennedy, and so there are so many, there's so many other Vietnamese refugee stories, but this one was, was our particular family story, and it's the story of my father's bravery, courage, our family's resiliency, among other various leadership kinds of themes. So that's, that's the premise of things.   Michael Hingson ** 16:27 Yeah, I understand. Well, what, what did you say you went to college? Where'd you go   Miki Ngyuen ** 16:35 to? Studied engineering at the University of Washington here in the Seattle area,   Michael Hingson ** 16:42 didn't, didn't try to help the basketball team, huh? Just, just checking, no, it's   16:50 too short for basketball, yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 16:52 Well, you know. And of course, in in the March, April, time frame of every year, we have March Madness, which is really crazy. I was disappointed to see Gonzaga get out of it so quickly. But oh well, of course, most people don't even know where Gonzaga is. I actually had the the lovely opportunity to speak there once, so it was kind of fun. So I've been there so anyway, well, so you went off and studied in engineering, and that's what you did after college.   Miki Ngyuen ** 17:23 No, I after college, I was an engineer for a couple years, and then pivoted over into the marketing side of things and focused in in technology. I mean, from your background, you also, you know, did sales, especially with your story 20 plus years ago, worked in technology sales, and your involvement with a tech company today accessible. So yeah, that's, that's, yeah, that's my. My background is tech marketing,   Michael Hingson ** 17:55 well, and I started out doing tech stuff, helping to work in the development of the original reading machine for the blind that Ray Kurzweil developed, but that ended up going into sales for a variety of reasons. So I appreciate where you're coming from and and feel a lot for the kinds of experiences that you've had. Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about what happened with your father, and the whole, the whole story of the escape, the last flight out, flying out with the Chinook and all that that happened. Oh   Miki Ngyuen ** 18:32 yes, so let's, let's get into let me go ahead and share the some pictures here. And I, as I told you, for you know, pictures worth 1000 words and but I'll narrate it in such a way that all audiences can can get into the the whole story. So this was, this was a moment again. This is a family story that was shared around the dinner table for many, many years post 1975 and I'm sharing the story through the lens of a six and a half year old boy experiencing what I saw and what I what I went through, and the picture that we're showing here on the First slide here is just images of my father, Bob van win, who, in the early, early 60s, got an opportunity after college to test and train to and finally got admitted into the the Air Force. And in the mid 60s, got an opportunity to come to Fort Rucker and study and fly helicopters, and came to America again in 69 to for additional training. And so my father grew up, family, grandmother, education was of utmost important. Importance, as well as family and community. And so towards the towards and the next slide I'm showing here is towards April 29 1975 we see iconic images in time, Life magazine, in the media here in the US, images of the Communists the North tanks rolling into Saigon and overtaking the city. And in the film, the documentary, again last season Vietnam, we see images. We see video clips of folks trying to get into the US Embassy to get access to a helicopter to get out of there, because folks, people that were serving working with American or the American personnel, anybody that was involved in the south fighting against communism would, have, you know, been in jail or put into, you know, a tough situation post war, if they gotten captured. And so we see a mass chaos, mass exodus trying to get out of of the city there. And so it was my my dad's knew that had he stayed and not figured things out, he would have been either killed or put in jail for a long time, and so he, at this point, waited out for orders from his commanding officers and his leadership at all of the top brass took off with their family trying to figure out how to get out themselves. And my dad, with the Chinook, went and picked up our family in at this moment in time of mom, myself, brother and sister, we were at my grandma's house. Uh, we've been there for about a couple weeks to get out of the the military base that we were on, and at Grandma's house. I remember the night before, my dad coming to get us a bombing and machine guns rattling around the neighborhood and around the city there. So it was pretty tense for our family at that time, my dad with the helicopter, Chinook helicopter in I'm sure you and your in the audience, you driving down the road or over, flying over your house, you hear a Chinook. Is very thunderous of and so it's a big equipment, big, big aircraft. And what he did was land at the Chinook in front of my grandma's house play a play field, and blew, you know, a lot of the roofs and commotion, and folks around the neighborhood were just surprised. You know of this helicopter landing in the middle of the middle, middle of sea.   Michael Hingson ** 23:22 Did you know that he was coming? Yes,   Miki Ngyuen ** 23:25 my dad had told my mom the days earlier that I'll be coming to get you. We'll figure this out, because at this moment in time, there's probably no way that we're going to survive the the Communists were coming and get ready. Get, you know, pack the bags, get get things ready and but we didn't know that he would come in in such a way. We figured maybe he would come in a vehicle, the military vehicle, to come in and get us. But he actually came with a with the with the Chinook, and landed right in front of the right in front of the house.   Michael Hingson ** 23:58 How many people was the Chinook hold. Well, at this time, in front   Miki Ngyuen ** 24:02 of my grandson, just our immediate family and but it would hold a lot of folks, a lot of folks. And towards the towards later on, we'll get to that point. But towards it we had like about 1715, 1617, people, crew member, their their girlfriends and family in in the in the helicopter. Yeah, that was what I was wondering,   Michael Hingson ** 24:28 because you said it was big. So I was just trying to get a perspective on what big really meant. And that's why I asked how many people it would hold. Oh,   Miki Ngyuen ** 24:36 yeah, understood, yeah. So the Chinook is probably, it is probably the largest helicopter in the, you know, the fleet of helicopters Arsenal so but he landed hatch opens up on the back, and the Chinook as a is a double, double, uh. Uh, a rotor, double prop helicopter. And family ran to the back of the the helicopter. They closed the hatch up, and my my father, accelerated, you know, the the engines and lifted up and out of, out of the area there. And the thinking was to rendezvous up with a few other of his squadron crew members and to head further south of the hot zone, Saigon, and to load up on the food and ration and gas so that we would continue further south and maybe perhaps lay low, find an island to just figure out what to do next, from that standpoint, and that's that's where We actually did was, along with our family, he had co pilot, and he had his gunner and the mechanic in their, you know, their their family members or girlfriends in the in the Chinook, once we loaded up On, on all of the, the food and everything fuel lifted up and out. And at the same time, he heard my father continued to monitor the the the radio communication. And he heard that there were US Navy, US ships out in the Pacific, now out east in the Pacific. And so he figured, we'll take a risk and head in in that direction, towards the the ocean there, and he didn't know exactly, you know, the exact GPS location, or the exact whereabouts of it, particularly, just headed out there blind and trying to find whatever option he could find. And out in the distant there, he sees a ship. And he goes, Well, this is my first chance. I'm going to go approach it and see if I'm able to land on it or figure out what to do next from there. And so heads in that direction. And we see, he sees a a uh, what we know now today is the frigate, and it wasn't, it was too small. It wasn't big enough to, you know, it wasn't like a an aircraft carrier, where you can actually land on it. And so the the next slide that I'm showing here, basically, as he approaches this, this ship, the crewman below, the US Navy crewman below was waving him like, you know, waving him away. Don't, don't, don't come here. You're simply you're too big. There's no way that you can land on on this ship. And so he kept circling the ship eventually found out the name of the ship was named the USS Kirk, and the captain was Captain Paul Jacobs. And my father continued to circle and figure out some way to, you know, ask for help. And we see in the one of the images here, that on the port side, the left side of the of the Chinook, my my mom holding up eight month old baby onto the the window part to let the crew in below know that, hey, we're not, you know, we're, we're we got kids, we got family on here. We need, we need help. And so eventually, what my dad was able to speak with the captain below, and both the captain and my father were able to coordinate the next step here, and which was to allow my father to hover right next to right behind the ship the stern to allow folks to to exit the helicopter. But prior to that, the slide that I'm showing here shows many other Vietnamese pilots and their families with smaller, smaller helicopters, the Huey helicopters landing, able to land on on the deck. And after they land, they would push the smaller helicopters over to into the ocean. And the continuing to do that as more families came on on, you know, was able to land. Uh, the next slide I'm showing here is the actual Captain Paul Jacobs throughout, throughout this whole narrative, my father is, is, is the person that my father's my hero. But there are other heroes throughout this whole story as well, and one of those I want to acknowledge is Captain Paul Jacobs, where we see in this image here, he was on the deck. He he wasn't in the command tower, directing, telling his, you know, crew, what to do. He was actually on the deck helping with his crew members, pushing and telling folks, as well as himself, jumping in and pushing smaller helicopters over the the side, making room for to clear, clear the the ship's deck. And so he's an outstanding individual, a hero in my book as well. And so once the deck was clear enough so that my dad was able to hover, what he did was basically fly the Chinook horizontal backwards to maintain the same steady high height, as well as a safe distance away from from the USS Kirk. And we found out later on that the this particular ship of frigate was a submarine destroyer. So it had all of the high tech equipment back, sonars, radars, all of the antenna and so it's very my father's had to be very careful in terms of how close he could have gotten, how close he could get to keeping the the distance as well as allowing folks to to jump down. And that's that's what we did. He kept it steady. And he was hovering about 1315, feet above the deck, and tells the co pilot to open up the starboard door and so that we would have access to jump. The picture that I'm showing you here is an illustration by Adam colts showing myself my mom, family members crews jumping from this Chinook down onto many of the crew members below, catching us as we as we exited. We also have an illustration from that I clipped out from the New York Times doing an illustration of my mom dropping a baby sister onto the crew, the crewmen below, and many years later, many years later on, at a reunion with the crew member and the captain of the USS Kirk, one of the men below, Kent Chipman, introduced himself to us as one of the sailors below catching us. It was like you described as, like catching a a basketball coming out of the the helicopter. And so once everybody exited out, he my father told the co pilot to make sure that everybody safely gotten out, make sure that everybody had cleared the the rear of the helicopter, and then he finally told the the co pilot to go ahead and and jump himself now onto the deck. And so I remember, it's the last thing I remember as a six and a half year old boy who was being ushered inside, inside the the ship. They didn't want any kids running around on the deck. Yeah. And the last thing that we see, you know, is seeing my father hovering away from the ship. Now is just him by himself at this point in this large helicopter.   Miki Ngyuen ** 34:04 So it wasn't, it wasn't until, it wasn't until maybe, like half hour later that we we see my father again. But from from, from the point where he had to hover. After everybody jumped off the helicopter. He hovered away from the the ship. And at this point there was, you know, the only option here was to get a remove himself from from the helicopter. He wasn't going to go back to land or go back to the city. His family was on the ship now, and he need to be with his family. And so what he did was take the Chinook about 100 yards away from the ship, and hovered above the water, and at that point, kept the helicopter steady, and while at the same time taking off his.   Miki Ngyuen ** 45:00 Did the heavy lifting 100% they in so many ways, in terms of when we talk about a challenge or an obstacle, they had my mom had to learn a completely new, different language, had to start all over again, not knowing exactly what their future was going to be, but at the same time, you know the freedom, the freedom in America and what America represented was just an opportunity that they knew that even though it was a struggle as a challenge to re readapt, to assimilate, learn a new language, find a new career, it was still a lot better than the other option, yeah. And then to answer your question, as for me, as a six, six and a half year old boy, or six, yeah, seven year old boy, you're right. It was, it was more of an adventure than it was anything in terms of fear, because, again, as I said, my mom and dad took the burden of all of that paved the way for myself, brother and sister, but throughout my life, up to that point, it was just an adventure to jump off from the helicopter was, to me, like jumping, you know, playing around a tree, jumping off a tree. But for my mom, who had to take the courage to drop a baby, her baby from from an airplane, and the fear of change, the anxiety of of in the struggle of war and everything else at a different at a different level that my hat's off to both my parents from that time.   Michael Hingson ** 46:57 I'm sure that, in a sense, while things were happening, your mom didn't analyze it. And think about the time of war, she did what she had to do, and your father did what they had to do. And then after the fact, they obviously thought back about it and and probably had times of going, Wow, what? What did we do? And not in a regretful way, but at the time something is happening, you do what you have to do, and then you think about it later. And I guess for you, when did all of this really become real and a story? Well, not a story worth telling, but when did it really emotionally all sink into you, what really happened? Because that had to happen, obviously, later than that night   Miki Ngyuen ** 47:48 it it became super, super real for me. 2009 window discovered, again from mister Jan Herman, finding my father's story and sharing with us the pictures from the US Navy. Yeah, because, because, up to that point, from 1975 up to 2009 this was a story that I grew up throughout my life and experienced a bit of it jumping, but the the things that my father shared in terms of doing the ditch maneuver and growing up as a boy, listening to him talk with his buddies around the dinner table. Or when they would have reunions, they would my, you know, I would be, you know, seen and not heard, type of a family situation, just, you know, listening into my father's conversation with his his buddies, hearing, hearing about it, and then finally, seeing pictures from the US Navy in 2009 that was when it really, really kicked in. Because as a kid growing up, I would share these stories. Friends would ask me, how'd you come you know, where are you from, and how did you get here? And I would share, you know, how we got to America and escape from escape from Vietnam. But it didn't really hit until 2009 once we actually saw the images that my dad was, he was, he did what he said, and we got pictures to prove it. So, yeah, yeah. And I want to touch upon the thing they mentioned a few minutes ago, in terms of my mom and dad and I know that you're, you're an Eagle Scout. I I never went that far in terms of Scott. I went to second class, so outstanding for you, going all the way as an ego scout. But the one thing that I learned from Scott is that word always be prepared. Always, always be prepared. I teach my kids that as well. And so in terms of my my mom and dad, they you can be prepared, you know, for the worst case scenario. And that's what actually happened in the end. The South Vietnam lost to commun to the communists, and at that. Point, and I'm going to weave in the story that you've shared as well in your on your platform, in terms of that day 911 where you had to, you had to do what you had to do with with your dog and and with everybody else trying to figure out how to get out of that, try to exit that building for safety and things like that. And so it was one of those things where you just had to, you can only prepare so much. And in the moment of crisis, or in that moment of of things crumbling literally around you, whether it be your country or a building crumbling around you, you have to figure out you have to, you know, cleverness, communication, working with others around you, teamwork, all of that had to come into play for survival. And so both, I mean, you know, both of our, my, your story, my my family, my father and my mother's story, myself as just a kid tagging along was, was that trying to figure out some way to exit yourself from a moment of dire, a moment of chaos, and so I can, I can under, I can resonate, I can, I can appreciate that   Michael Hingson ** 51:15 well. And the thing is that the thing you have to mostly prepare for is, is your mind, and prepare is your mind. It's and it's how you prepare to deal with things that may happen you you can't, as I tell people, there's no way to train someone to deal, as such, with a falling building, or, as you say, losing a country, but you can prepare your mind to be able to say, I can do this, and I don't need to allow the fear of what's going on to stop me. I can use that as a powerful tool to help that preparation is the most important thing we can do for anything that happens in our lives, and that's what we really have to focus on. Because I've been asked many times questions like, well, you know, how do you teach your dog how to escape from a tough, falling building or a tall building like you did in the World Trade Center? Yeah, that's not what you that's not what you teach the dog to deal with. You teach the dog to focus. You teach yourself to focus, and you teach both of you where you are, the leader, you teach yourself how to deal with whatever situation comes along and worry only about the things that you have control over, because the rest isn't going to going to help you to worry about because you don't have control over it.   Miki Ngyuen ** 52:48 Right, right, right. Yeah, go ahead. No, I just letting that sink in. I yeah, there's ever a time to be very present, very calm, very cool and collected. Because once, once you start, once you start, you know lack of a better term, freaking out or losing it mentally, things could fall apart even, even worse. And so staying calm under pressure is critical,   Michael Hingson ** 53:21 which doesn't mean that you're not afraid, but you use the fear in a different way than you would if you allowed yourself to, if you will freak out, which is really the whole point. Well, so you you clearly have written this book. Why did you write it? No, I expect to help. What do you expect to help? To get from it   Miki Ngyuen ** 53:42 Sure. I again, I did not write this book. It was my father. Why   Michael Hingson ** 53:46 did you? Why did you decide to bring it forward? Oh,   Miki Ngyuen ** 53:52 number one, to honor, to honor my father's wishes. Number one, it, and number two, along with that, is to pass down to his great grandkids, and you know, their their kids, his story, our family story of how we came to America. This was the for the Vietnamese community. This was our Ellis Island story. And number one, to archive and to honor my my my father. Number two, the third one really is, this is a story that it doesn't matter what background, what obstacle, what struggle you are in. These are stories of courage, compassion, heroism, stories of suspense, love stories that my dad wrote as well. And there's stories of lessons learned about communism, stories of betrayal. And so it's a story that is a. Uh, relatable to all audience types, but outside of that, for myself and my my mom and for my family, this is our family story, and one that my kids, my great grandkids, what how they knew my father in his courage, in his resiliency, in terms of just coming to a new world and having to start over again.   Michael Hingson ** 55:27 What do you want people to take away from the story   Miki Ngyuen ** 55:32 history? Number one, in terms of the history of because there's a you know, if you don't, if you don't learn from history, you're going to make the same sort of mistakes again. And so, from history, what can we learn out of it, the lessons that we can learn out of it, the lessons of just how to overcome obstacles, dealing with, as you said, with fear, courage, lessons around being curious about the things around you, learning Education and as well as the lasting years, just lessons around teamwork and working with others, working with your community. So those are the kinds of things that we want to get across in this book.   Michael Hingson ** 56:36 What kind of lessons do you think your your father's memoir and yours, because you compiled it. What lessons do you think we all should take away from that, that we should use today? What, what should we be learning from this story?   Miki Ngyuen ** 56:56 Uh, lessons in terms of, uh, leadership, lessons in terms of how to handle yourself in crisis situation, lessons around working with others to overcome a particular obstacle or a challenge working, you know, with teammates. Wait may it be in a corporate environment, or maybe in a community or a setting, or many of those themes that in terms of just everyday life lessons and resiliency, yeah, yeah, many of those themes and lessons that I think is told through my father's experience and our family's experience, from that standpoint,   Michael Hingson ** 58:08 a question that comes to mind, really off the wall, is so it's now been 50 years. What is Vietnam like today? Do you know a   Miki Ngyuen ** 58:16 lot better than it was 50 years ago? I I've visited, not only visited, but lived there in 2016 2017 and life today a lot more prosperous than than in years past. And he continues to to be prosperous. And, you know   Michael Hingson ** 58:43 better from that standpoint, is it a communist country? It's still,   Miki Ngyuen ** 58:47 it's still a communist country today, one of the things that I did learn from the book and my dad was sharing is that in this ties in with the the the the Berlin Wall in the unraveling of communism the Soviet government back then, When the leadership in Vietnam saw that they loosened up many of their their their policies around that. So it is still communism today, but prosperous in a lot of ways, economically, and, you know, trading with with other countries. So, yeah, that's, that's, you know, that's how life is today in Vietnam, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 59:49 what final words and suggestions do you want to make? We've been doing this now for almost an hour, and it's, it's been as compelling as I think you thought it would. Be, and I imagined it would be, what kind of final remarks or thoughts do you want to leave for people to think about   Miki Ngyuen ** 1:00:09 that, whatever situation, whatever obstacles that you're going through at this moment, that there's always there's always choices and options, and the the the things that we talked about, you and I, Michael here, is just staying cool, staying level headed, staying calm through through challenges, and looking, you know, looking to work with others, looking for help, searching for help, and where you can help others as well. If it wasn't for Captain Paul Jacobs, compassion and humanity, our family wouldn't be here telling the story. And so these are the things that have helped us and our family in return. Look back over your shoulder to see if somebody else behind you would need help as well and offer that. So that's yeah, that's the some of the things that I want to at least share.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:23 There's there's a lot to be said for paying it forward as well as gratitude, and I think that you've exhibited all of that very well. And Miki, I want to thank you again for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful and enthralling, and I hope that everyone has enjoyed it. And I appreciate you being able to be here and tell the story, because it has to be still a challenge, even 50 years later, because you lived through it, but but you've learned how to live through it. And I think that's the issue. It's like with the World Trade Center, you learn how to deal with with it, and we both have learned to tell our stories, and I think that's so important. So I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening today. This has been wonderful. I hope you agree. Love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, and also wherever you're listening or watching, please give us a five star review. We value your reviews very highly, and we we love the good ones. So please give us a five star review, and as Walden did and Miki for you and everyone listening and watching, if you know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on our podcast, and you think anyone else who has a story to tell, love to hear it, love to meet them, love to get them on the podcast. So we really appreciate you reaching out again. You can email me at Michael h i@accessibe.com or go to our podcast web page, which is www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, Michael Hingson is m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n.com/podcast, you can reach us through that page as well. Hope that you'll listen to more episodes and that you'll come back if you're listening to us for the first time, and whatever you do, be well and be grateful for all that we have. That's the way it ought to be, and we can all be unstoppable if we choose to. So again, thank you for being here and Miki, thank you again for being here and being with us. Yeah,   Miki Ngyuen ** 1:03:32 thank you again, Michael, for the opportunity to share the story with you from your audience.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:41 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

I have never had the pleasure of having a guest quite like Michele Blood. While still living in Australia Michele was an extremely successful rock singer. One day she was involved in a serious accident while being driven to a gig. Her body was, as she says, quite battered and damaged. What is fascinating about Michele's story is how she discovered the value of positive affirmations that she used to heal everything. As she will tell us, it is not just saying affirmations, but rather it is truly believing what you affirm. Her music became an integral of what healed her.   Since her recovery Michele has traveled the world singing and speaking on stage with many well-known motivational and thought leaders. I leave it to her to tell the story.   During our episode Michele will sing one of her affirmation songs. I hope you are as moved by the song in specific and by Michele's attitude and mindset in general. She teaches us a lot that can have nothing but positives effects on your life.   I look forward to hearing what you have to say about my time with Michele. Don't forget to get her free gifts available only to listeners of the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Is that cool or what?       About the Guest:   Michele Blood is a successful, multi-talented lady. Michele was a successful songwriter and rock singer in Australia and after a near-fatal car accident, while in the hospital with many serious injuries, she created positive Affirmation Songs which not only healed her body but also took her to worldwide success. These Affirmation songs affect the left and right hemispheres of the brain. Lyrics, the left hemisphere, and melody and music, the right hemisphere so the new, positive messages go straight to the subconscious mind. This is why millions of people worldwide have downloaded her Affirmation Power songs. These songs cover healing, success, money, joy, confidence and they uplift the person immediately.   In addition to creating Magnet To Success™ products and seminars worldwide, her public Mystical Success Events have been held in over 26 countries. Michele has co-written and created over 80 books, music CDs, audio programs, TV shows, and videos on positive thought, mind transformation, and meditation.   Michele has appeared in many hundreds of podcasts, radio/tv shows, and magazines globally. After many years of meditation, Michele's Kundalini awakened and transformed her consciousness. Michele now teaches others how to live a Successful Life and experience Divine Oneness. Her Mystical Experience webinars and live streams have assisted people globally to transform their lives to the positive. Through her Teachings and Light Transmissions, people awaken and experience what they say is the impossible. They awaken to their true purpose and begin their path to Enlightenment. She has shared the stage and worked with Bob Proctor, Dr. Deepak Chopra, Dr. Wayne Dyer, Jack Canfield, and many other transformational Authors and Teachers. Her latest book is The Magic Of Affirmation Power and her latest album is Create Miracles: Positive Affirmation Songs To Harmonize your Mind and Life. And her new Magnet To Money App will uplift millions worldwide.   Ways to connect with Michele:   https://www.MicheleBlood.com and https://www.YouTube.com/MicheleBlood   Michele would also love to gift your viewers and listeners her audiobook, "The Magic Of Affirmation Power" Your audience can download this free gift by going to: https://www.MicheleBlood.com/UnstoppableMindset   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected, which is really the most fun part, meet today. We are getting close to winter, and I was just telling our guest Michele Blood that here in Victorville, we had a temperature this morning of 28 degrees. Ah, lovely weather, and all the weather people complain about now it's getting cold in the summer, they complained it was getting hot. You know, you can't please them. I don't know what to say. But anyway, one of these days they'll, they'll decide that whatever happens is is not a bad thing, and they'll stop complaining, I guess. But any Yeah. But anyway, Michele, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thank you.   Michele Blood ** 02:06 Michael, I've been so looking forward to this. After reading thunder dog, I'm going to be reading the second book, which is live like a guide dog. I'm going to be reading that after that, I absolutely adore this book, which I'm showing right now, Thunder dog. It's the most inspirational you can't put down. I mean, the lot not just getting down 78 floors of the Twin Towers, 78 stairs. I mean, oh my gosh. But then everything that you've done in between working with you know Ray Kurzweil, who's done a lot of things in the music industry as well. I mean, I mean, I recognized his name straight away. I'm like, all the all the things you've done. I'm just so impressed by and by your life and how inspiring you are. And I just wanted to say that to everybody, he's just, you gotta get his thunder dog book if you haven't yet, and his new book, live like a guide dog, for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 03:02 I I don't know. I haven't totally kept up, but I haven't heard that anybody has yet come out with a music synthesizer that is better than the Kurzweil synthesizer. Now, a lot has happened, and maybe technology has advanced, but I hadn't heard about anything that still beats it.   Michele Blood ** 03:20 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the fair light was pretty amazing when that first came out, but the Kurzweil, I mean, all any rock musician knows about, yeah, when, when that was first put out, we were just like, oh my gosh, that's amazing, you know, because you could sample sounds and, you know, it was just   Michael Hingson ** 03:39 incredible, and it had a choir built into it. Yeah? Daylight though   Michele Blood ** 03:43 that was, I don't know, think back back in the day, it was like 100 grand, so that's probably why it wasn't as popular. Yeah,   03:51 a little more   Michael Hingson ** 03:52 expensive than the Kurzweil one. Yeah, yeah, our organist at our church where my wife and I went in Irvine and where we got married, our organist had a Kurzweil synthesizer and used it a lot, which was, which was kind of fun, and it was, it was very and it is very impressive all the way around, yeah, but   Michele Blood ** 04:13 just the innovative things that have been done, and you're helping ray with all of the things for the blind as well. Working with Stevie Wonder. I mean, it's just, you're very impressive. You're an inspiration. You are, you are absolutely amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 04:28 Well, thank you. But now let's talk about you a little bit. And you know, you can, you can.   04:35 I didn't show them the cover yet. You can   Michael Hingson ** 04:38 spread any rusty live like a guide dog. Live   04:42 like a guide dog. Needs to cover everybody   Michael Hingson ** 04:45 well, I hope people will get it. I'm we're excited about it. It's been out now a few months. It seems to be selling. We're excited. So hopefully people will read it, and it inspires people a little bit, because it's all about. Are trying to get people to learn to control fear and not let it overwhelm or, as I put it, blind you. But anyway, tell us a little bit about you. Why don't you start with the the early Michele, growing up, and some of those kinds of things, just kind of introduce us to you a little bit.   Michele Blood ** 05:16 Well, I'm an Aussie G'day, everyone. G'day, and, in Australia, I started in the entertainment industry at the age of five, on TV. What   Michael Hingson ** 05:27 did you do? Singing? Oh, okay,   Michele Blood ** 05:31 you know. And then eventually got my, you know, had lots and lots of rock bands I sang in, until eventually I got my own rock band that became very successful. I was the lead singer, one of the main songwriters and the manager of the band. We got a great record label. We had 1000s of people coming to our gigs, and it took years to get there, but I loved it so much, even though it's very, very tough at one stage, we toured for seven years, non stop. I mean, no Christmases, no New Year's eves, because when you're in a rock band, you get paid triple on New Year's Eves and Christmases and stuff like that. Yeah, and you can't really say no until you're really huge. You can't really say no to any gig, because you need the money road crew and sound equipment trucks and all the rest of it so but I feel that my life went on a whole new trajectory after a near fatal truck accident, actually, where I was a passenger with the truck, with all the equipment, and my body was so badly broken, I was In the hospital for months and months and months and and that was the best thing that ever happened to me. I know that sounds crazy everybody, but truly, when you have something so terrible happen to you, and it gets turned around by the Divine, whatever you choose to call God, it gets your life gets turned around and it makes all the difference in the world. So that's the first quarter.   Michael Hingson ** 07:08 Well, you know, I'm really curious. You said something that just strikes a question. I know that a lot of people try to go into entertainment, and most probably aren't overly successful. But why do you think that you were so successful? What what made the rock group and and what you did so successful? Do you have a notion? Well,   Michele Blood ** 07:30 I loved what I did. I was very, very good at it. And not everyone that's good at it's probably other singers in the world that are better than me. But the reason, I think because, I mean, I had some backing vocals on some records, and these female singers were incredible. And one of them said, I know you've got a good voice, Michelle, but I don't know why it's you and not me. And I said, I think it's just that I never gave up, and I was really disciplined. And I, you know, I wasn't on the road of sex, drugs and rock and roll. I was on the road of discipline, making sure that all my band members were disciplined. We worked really, really hard. We rehearsed a lot. We never blew out a gig, not once. So you get a good reputation. And so I started as a cover band, and we would sound just like the records at the time of the 80s. You know, people said that was a band. It sounded like a record. And so then we, we eventually started putting all our originals in and, I mean, I did crazy things, Michael, I went into Time Warner to the A and R people, because I wasn't getting any feedback. It's really hard. You can't just send them a tape to get you know for them to listen to your demos. So I went in as a tap dancing singing telegram. And so the secretary let me go straight into the office, and it was a board meeting, and because she thought, you know, their family had so I was there with flowers and a cake and my ghetto blaster, and I said, Then I did a tap dance, and I made up this song about, you know, this is, this is the band called clapping hands. You're going to sign them, you're going to want them. And this is a singing telegram saying, Listen to this. And that's how I got my first record deal.   Michael Hingson ** 09:24 Creativity counts for something. It   Michele Blood ** 09:25 sure does. You've gotta have guts. And I mean, I by the time I walked out of that office, though I was sweating, I was shaking, but you have to do something to be noticed. And and I think because I love people so much, and because I'd been singing professionally since I was five, which means I was singing for family members and everyone since I was two, apparently getting being put on the kitchen table. And I loved people being happy, and I love loved entertaining. I just loved it. So I think, you know, it's in the stars as. Well, I know that, but I think discipline, hard work eventually never giving up. Yeah, what can I say? Never giving up.   Michael Hingson ** 10:08 Did you so you were a cover band for for a while, which meant you were the the opening band for other groups,   Michele Blood ** 10:17 not as a cover band, well, with the opening act for the pretenders and in excess and a few other bands, when we were an original band and when we had a record label, right, when we had videos on TV, but before that, now we do five to 645, minute sets a night, and we would stay at one big venue, because in back in the day in Australia, the venues were huge for cover bands. You know, four to 6000 people could come in, and we got, we got very, very popular as a cover band, and then we went original. But it took a few years to do that, for sure, but   Michael Hingson ** 10:55 I remember, I remember bands back in the 50s and 60s, like the platters, who actually were the opening band, or they were the band that were the background for other singers. And then somebody discovered these guys really are better than that, and then they became their own group, right?   Michele Blood ** 11:14 Yeah, yeah. It's interesting how, how it all works out. But in Australia, it's, it's a tough way to tour when you're a female singer, because the Aussies are pretty tough. If they don't like you, you can get B canes thrown at you.   Michael Hingson ** 11:32 Yeah, well, those kinds of things do happen. Yes, they did in Boston for for sports teams. I've heard of fans really being very brutal to like the the Patriots. I think when Steve Grogan was the quarterback, they actually booed him off the field once. It was pretty amazing. I don't know. You know that's people take some of these things way too seriously. They   Michele Blood ** 12:00 certainly do. I like what Oscar Wilde said, Life is too serious to be taken seriously. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:09 yeah, absolutely, and, but people still do it way too much. Which is, which is, which is a problem. Yes, you know, we need people to take life more like Mark Twain and Will Rogers, by all means, but I can co so you, you had a serious car accident, and as you said, It really broke your body. Tell us what you'd like to about that and and then how you dealt with it, because that, that was quite a, I won't say miraculous. That was quite a marvel. You. You certainly took a leap along the way with that.   Michele Blood ** 12:50 Yeah, it's such a unique story. Um, after you know the truck driver we've been driving for 12 hours from Brisbane to Sydney, from gig to keep and he fell asleep at the wheel just as we reached Sydney, which happened to be right across the road from the best orthopedic specialist hospital in Sydney. So thank you, God, you know. Yeah, there's no coincidences. There's no accidents. So they got me over there really fast, and they had me straight into the operating theater straight away. So, I mean, I had tons of different operations, but what happened was, when you're in physics, that much physical agony, you pass out every few minutes. Mm, hmm, and, but I had people and fans and family putting on audio programs of things I'd never heard of before, Affirmations, Visualization, positive stuff, audio books by motivational speakers, inspirational speakers who I'd never heard of, but one of them got to me, and that was a book by a man called Napoleon Hill who wrote a book called Think and Grow Rich. Grow Rich, right? And I didn't care about hearing about all the millionaires in the 1920s in America, male men. Why would a female, young Australian rock singer care about that? But one chapter in there, he talks about how his infant son was born deaf, and he would go into his infant son's room every single night and do affirmations, auto suggestion, you hear perfectly. You are so loved, and you are so loving, etc, etc. And by the time a little boy was nearly four, he had 30% of his hearing. And you know when you hear something, I've never heard of this before, Michael, but you know when you hear something for the first time and you can feel it that it's true. You've just heard something that you know in the marrow of your bones that that what you've just heard is true. So I said, Okay, I can, I can run. Relate to that, because I know that I've used my willpower and my positive thinking, My I've never said I can't do something, I can't have that drama that I want. I've never said that. I've always said it's all possible. Everything is possible. You just go for it. Michelle, and I'd always just go for it. And I was brought up a Catholic, and I wasn't brought up. I wasn't one of those people that hated the church. I loved it. So I always had a belief in God, because I used to go to mass as a little girl every morning with the nuns, because I was in love with Jesus, and I just felt so I had that spirituality in me, and I think that is what is the backbone. You know, in the Bible, it says you do not need to be strong, because Christ is my strength. Christ is your strength. And so now I know that there is so much more to spirituality than just Jesus, but it was a great start for my faith in my life, and it gave me happiness. And so I just had faith that this would work, so I started doing affirmations, but they didn't work. Michael, do you want to know why? Sure, yeah, we've got nothing else to do today, right? May as well. Hear about it well, because neuroscience has proven now that affirmations do work and they do positive thinking actually does make a difference in the brain, in the neural pathways. It does make a difference. It ignites something in different parts of the brain. But back then, in the 80s, there was no way to prove that, you know, let alone Napoleon Hill in the 1920s but the thing that he said was most important is, you have to believe it. You have to emotionalize it. But I couldn't, Michael, I couldn't emotionalize it because I would. I started an affirmation, I am healed. I know I am. I love myself. I am my friend. Now, none of those things were true, so I thought, but I did want them to be true, so I thought, great, I've got the perfect affirmation. But when you are feeling like you're feeling and the world around you is presenting the opposite of what you're saying. Your doubting mind spits it out and does not believe it. So about two, three weeks after stopping the affirmations, because I realized that didn't work, I literally had a spiritual epiphany, and it was, you know, as a songwriter, Michelle, you can't get a song out of your head, even if it's songs you don't like or jingles from advertising agencies. So sing your affirmations. Because I got my brother to look around for affirmation songs, and he said, there isn't any such thing. And so I started singing,   Speaker 1 ** 17:58 I am healed. I know I am I love myself. I am my friend. And   Michele Blood ** 18:05 I recorded it onto a cassette player, just a cappella over and over again. And that was the beginning. As I listened to that all day, every day I would I started feeling better. I started getting back to my attitude, that I can, I can heal it just I realized. And when I was working with Bob Proctor, he said, you know why that works so well? He said, It's because the left side of the brain is where the lyrics are, the affirmation, the right side the melody. And this is even before I started recording it with music, and so you have a whole brain experience. And the song, the doubting mind doesn't have a chance to reject it. It goes straight into your subconscious mind. So that's how my positive affirmation pop music began. I didn't stop doing my other music, but I did have what they said, even the doctors, even though they're not supposed to say it, they said my healing was miraculous, and I ended up on TV shows and in the press and everything about what I'd been through for inspiration. And that's how it all began.   Michael Hingson ** 19:16 It. It really is all about believing it. It's it is so easy just to say something, but without truly accepting it, without truly making it a part of your psyche. However you do that it, it doesn't mean a thing. Don't   Michele Blood ** 19:32 mean a thing if it ain't something. Yeah, you do have to laugh. Do up, do up, do   Michele Blood ** 19:43 Yeah, music makes the world go around. It does,   Michael Hingson ** 19:48 and it's so important to take it seriously enough that you truly do believe it, and that's what's so important. And clearly. What you did? So what happened you you got healed completely, I would assume from all that had happened,   Michele Blood ** 20:10 yeah, I mean, it's still it still took quite a while, but I was determined. I put my high shoes back on, even though they said, don't wear high shoes. And I never intended for the affirmation music to go out to the public. My one of the band members that I work with and wrote songs with John Beatty, Hi John. He he's in person now in Australia with millions of kids, but anyway, we won't help me. Listens, yeah, we went into the recording studio and we, we just started recording. I was writing a lot of songs, and we started recording tons of different affirmation songs in all different styles of you know, from R and B to just rock to ballads to depending on what the song was about, whether it was about, you know, divine love, more of a ballad, more of a some of them just more rock and roll about being successful. And when the press found out that I was actually doing that, then promoters that were bringing out American very, very big, best selling authors asked me to come and do my singing affirmations in between these people. And I said, No, I don't want to do that. I'm not doing it for the public. Was just for me, my band, to have these positive thoughts. And they said, No, we love it. We love it. We want you to do it. And so my very first gig, I'm in Adelaide, Australia, and there's three and a half 1000 people on a Wednesday that came to this gig that paid over $300 each for a ticket, which I thought was absolutely insane. I didn't know what was going on. And I sang, and got all the people up on stage singing the affirmation songs with me made it into like a mini rock concert. And then Deepak Chopra, this, who I'd never heard of, never met before. Wayne Dyer, who I'd never heard of, never met before. Tony Alessandra, Stuart, wild, they were the speakers, and they couldn't believe it when we went out to dinner that night that I've never heard of any of them. And I said, I'm in rock and roll. I'm not in the motivational world. You know, I've, I've never heard of you, because I've not in that world. And so they were interested in how it all began, and they all said, You've got to tour this around the world. You've got to you've got to release these that we love. What you're doing. The audience is so different. Bob Proctor, though he was the one, when I ended up working with him, the promoters said, you know, we've got this female Australian singer, and you're going to be touring with her? And he said, No, I don't want a female singer. I'm Bob Proctor. I don't need that anyway. The first gig I did with him in Sydney, he came out after, and he said, I didn't want to work with a singer. And I said, good to meet you too, mate. I Yes, how are you? And he said, but no, all kidding aside. He said, My wife and I, Linda, we loved it so much, and I want you to work with me all over the world, doing events. So eventually I end up working with Bob for seven years straight. We wrote books together. We wrote music together. We put on huge events. I took over his business, looked after it, and from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where I lived, and then, and it was just very, very interesting. I've worked in over 26 countries, huge, huge audiences. The biggest one I had was 50,000 people. So to say it was successful is an understatement, but I didn't plan it. I didn't visualize it, but I had always planned on being very well known singer, but it but not to be a positive affirmation or singer. I'd never thought of that, but eventually I went off the grid and started really getting into deep meditation practice and getting off the that whole circuit, because I wanted to find God within me. So that was what happened. And it was fascinating, because it's like working with all these, you know, rock musicians, male rock musicians, and then working with all these male best selling authors. I'm like, I'm always surrounded by the boys.   Michael Hingson ** 24:46 Hey, whatever works, it's, it's interesting though, that that you, you did so much of this, I gather that the audience is reacted very positively, though. Um. Have you heard from anyone that it really changed their life to have encountered you and heard you when you performed? Oh,   Michele Blood ** 25:10 yeah, we've had millions. I mean, we've got a lot of our video video testimonials and testimonials from not just best selling authors that I've worked with, but also from people from all over the world. I work with people in over 32 countries now, and some of them don't even speak English, but they still feel the vibration. And a lot of different people have started singing my songs in different languages, which I allow anyone to do. They don't have to pay me a royalty. They can just do it whatever brings positivity to the world and change within someone, so that they can get out of that rabbit hole. Because you're, you know, your whole podcast about unstoppable mindset. Well, this is such a a great new beginning is to just have to listen to a song. Yeah? And, you know, there's so I've got hundreds of songs to choose from, so it's a good it's a good way to start, because music, you know, like I always say to people, if you have the blues, even though I like blues and I think it's brilliant, but if you have the blues, probably best not to listen to the blues. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 26:21 definitely, definitely true. Well, of course, one has to ask if, if you have one, not necessarily long, but that you want to sing for us all.   Michele Blood ** 26:38 Yeah, I can. I didn't have anything set up. But if you'd like to chat for a minute, I'll just get something set up for you. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 26:45 okay, we can, we can do that. I do. I do agree with you that if you've got the blues, you don't want to listen to the blues. I I personally like happy stuff. I like musicals, especially when they're they're happy musicals. I've always enjoyed that. I do listen and read science fiction and sometimes read some some pretty horrific things. But I've noticed later in my life I'm doing less of that because I, although I like mysteries, I don't like nowadays really graphical or very graphic murder mysteries and things like that, and so people call the kinds of things that I probably typically like cozy mysteries. I wouldn't say that Rex Stout books about neural wolf the private detective are necessarily cozy, but by the same token, they're not the most graphic things, and I've always enjoyed them because they're puzzles. And I love mysteries that are really puzzles that I can become engaged in and try to solve, and musicals I like just because they're fun and and they're they're very happy for the most part. And so again, they're, they're very relevant to to want to listen to. So I, I tend to do that. So it's a lot of fun to keep in the the spirit of reasonably happy and stay away from the blues. Okay,   Michele Blood ** 28:17 I've got something set up now, alright, saying low battery, but oh, sorry. What happened there? There it is. There it is. This song is called synergy. I wrote it with Bob Proctor. Can you hear the music?   Michael Hingson ** 28:35 It's a little low, but yes, go ahead. Better. Yep,   Speaker 1 ** 28:40 there's a way to get it moving, to make it happen, to get high. Can barely flooded in the clouds, join thoughts and let them fly. When your mind joins in with others and all your thoughts to one a US. Energy begins to sizzle and it's energy positive energy synergy. It's energy, hot energy, positive energy turn into synergy. Together, creative power will start to flow. Things begin to happen. You're a church with Synergy. Red Hot energy, positive energy grows into synergy. It's energy, hot energy, positive energy grows into synergy.   Michele Blood ** 29:55 You shine and become magnetic, you'll draw the good. People out the world will be a better place, and everyone will start to shout, face to face, building   Speaker 2 ** 30:12 energy. Taste. The taste is this energy, thoughts, launching into one, a new boss have become this is synergy.   Speaker 1 ** 30:23 It's synergy, red hot energy, positive energy, delta, synergy, it's synergy.   Michael Hingson ** 30:34 There you go. Now   30:36 that's Bob Proctor. Wrote the lyrics for that.   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 But, um, who was the male voice near the end? Oh, the   Michele Blood ** 30:44 male voice was a American guy in who was singing covers in Kuala Lumpur when I lived there, Ah, okay, and I just hired him to come and and do that in the studio in Kuala Lumpur, yeah. But the other affirmation songs are more simple, but they're still got, you know, like a good dance beat, some of them are ballads greeting the day with love in your heart. It just depends on where you want to take your mind that day. Do you want to open your heart? Do you want to be like listen to the persistent song. Do you want to feel more successful? You listen to the success song, which is like 50s, rock and roll. So they're all different. They're all different product, production. So it was a lot of fun changing the different styles for each song depending on the lyrics.   Michael Hingson ** 31:34 Well, if people want to get those affirmation songs and so on, are they available for people to get? Yeah,   Michele Blood ** 31:41 all my albums are sold all over the world, and iTunes, of course, Amazon. My own website is magnet to success. Com. My YouTube channel is Michelle blood.com forward slash YouTube. But I've got lovely giveaways for your for your audience, if you'd like me to share that. Well, we will   Michael Hingson ** 32:03 do that a little bit, okay, but I really appreciate you seeing synergy. I will be, I will be saying that to myself the rest of the day, which is fine, but you know, you mentioned the blues and so on. So here's a question, if somebody is really down and really frustrated, how can they change their life to the positive?   Michele Blood ** 32:31 Well, first of all, even if they are really down, you've got to know, no matter what is going on in your life, that everything is possible for you, and that you can get out of that rabbit hole, and that you are you might feel alone, but you're never alone. Whether you believe in God or you don't believe in God, there is a God and you are looked after. You can pray without begging just giving. One of the most wonderful things you can do is just to start to write down what you're thankful for immediately. If you can say thank you divine, or just thank you for my beautiful life, and if then you can begin to write down what a beautiful life would look like for you, just start writing it down, even though it's not true yet. Like, let's start thinking about what can be done. What do you what sort of friends do you want? What sort of lifestyle do you want? You know, start thinking of others as well. Whenever we can do something, if we can do something every single day that makes somebody else happy, whether it's feeding the homeless or sending funny kitten videos to your friends. You if you can do something every day that brings happiness to somebody else or takes them out of suffering, well, then it'll take you out of yourself. Because if, if it's something emotional that you're going through, that means that you're going to sometimes we do need to go through the emotion, particularly if we're mourning the loss of something or someone that's important and healthy. But it is also important to stop thinking about ourselves so much and look at what can be done for the world. I love I love Saint Vincent de Paul. I love the Salvation Army so much, so you can tithe to them anonymously. If you want to do something you don't know what to do, even if it's just a buck, five bucks, it's really good to tithe to charities that are doing good in the world. And I'm sure there's a charity that you could recommend to us, Michael, that will help with the blind. If you got one, you can recommend?   Michael Hingson ** 34:43 Well, I think there, there really are a number of of places to donate. One of my favorites is the National Federation of the Blind, nfb.org, because it's, it's a consumer organization that fights for the rights of. Of blind people around the United States and actually around the world. And it's the NFB is the largest consumer organization of blind people in this country and, in fact, in the world. But it has made such a difference in the lives of blind people. For example, through the National Federation of blind we completely changed the life insurance industry that refused to provide life insurance for any blind person up until the mid 1980s and when it was finally discovered that they were denying us, not because they had any evidence and actual mathematical models that proved that we were a risk, which is what they're supposed to do. They were doing it strictly out of prejudice. And so now every state in the union, because of the Federation, has actually passed legislation that says you can't discriminate unless you've got real evidence. Well, it's been 40 years, and nobody's come up with evidence that we're a higher risk simply because we're blind or other persons with disabilities, their disabilities directly make them a higher risk. So, you know, that's that's definitely one of my favorite organizations to support. And   Michele Blood ** 36:13 nfb.org everybody. Nfb.org I've written it down for me to start tithing there as well. And,   Michael Hingson ** 36:20 you know, and there, there are so many others. Another organization that I tend to like, it's a very small organization, is advocates for service animal partners asap.org, and and it fights for the rights of people with a variety of disabilities who use service animals, service dogs, to be able to take their dogs with them, where wherever they go, because we're denied. So awesome. So I like asap.org as well.   Michele Blood ** 36:51 I love what you did. I think it was you and Ray and his wife. You were going to a particular restaurant and a a suity maitre d snotty, snooty, wouldn't let you in with your blind dog, with your with your guide dog, right? And and she was really upset the wife. And so you end up gathering quite a few of your friends that are blind, that have guide dogs, and you went in, and he had to oblige and let you all in. And everyone was very nice to you. So that was really good, because that it, it's, it's illegal for them to say you can't come in with your guide dog. It is   Michael Hingson ** 37:28 illegal, and it has been illegal for a long time. One of my favorite stories, which really wasn't a bad story at all, there used to be a restaurant in Boston in Quincy Market called Durgan Park. And Durgan Park was was basically family style, although around the outside of the room they had tables for four but you couldn't sit at one of those tables unless you had four people. Well, we came in one night and there were only three of us and my dog, Holland, and the the host has said, You know what, I'm going to make an exception and let you sit at this table for four so Holland was under the table, and there were three of us, and the waitress came up, and the waitresses at Durgan Park are known as snots. I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're supposed to be really rough and all that. It's just part of the schtick. But she came up and she said, What are you people doing sitting here? And he said, well, the host has put us here. No, she didn't. You're just sitting here. No, she did. It's because of the dog under the table. No, there's no dog under the table. You're not going to make me fall for that. And she walks away, and then she comes back and she said, you're not supposed to be sitting here and all that. I said, Look, there's a dog under the table. Take a look. And it took a while, but I finally got her to look, and there's Holland staring at her with these big brown eyes when she lifts up the the tablecloth, and the next thing I know, she comes back with a big plate. Jurgen Park has very good sized portions of frying rib and says, Can I give this to the dog, oh, and, and normally, I would never do that, but in the for to promote goodwill, I said, Okay, which Hall of love? And, you know, I knew the food there was good, but, you know, it was, it was just one of those great stories. But, yeah, all too often that isn't the way it goes. We see so many challenges with Uber, for example, so many drivers refuse to take blind people or other people with disabilities who have service dogs. It's against the rules, and they say, but it's our car. No, you signed a contract that said that you are going to transport the public, so it is illegal for you to deny us. But they do, and that's one of the things that ASAP, for example, is really working on to address, to get Uber, to recognize that it has to enforce the law like everyone else. But it's a challenge. People come from all sorts of different points of view. You know, with   Michele Blood ** 39:59 the name like. Uber. How could they do that? They're not being very Uber.   40:04 Well, there you go.   Michele Blood ** 40:07 Wow. That's interesting in this day and age. Absolutely, it continues all too often. So many people have slipped into something more comfortable, like a coma. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 40:18 Now you and your team have created an app. I think it's called what magnet to money. Tell us about that. Yeah,   Michele Blood ** 40:24 it was interesting. Thanks, Michael. I wanted to do because sometimes people like you were talking earlier, how do they get out of their you know, their depression, or whatever they're going through that they're feeling, how do they get out of that rabbit hole? So if you're feeling that way, and your mindset is in a negative state of mind, and you're emotionally not feeling well, well, then it's very, very challenging for you to want to put on some positive, you know, affirmation music. Because I know when I was in the hospital, if people came in and they were too chirpy. I would couldn't wait for them to go because I wasn't oscillating at that frequency. Yeah, you know. So they're all Oh, hi. And so I thought, wouldn't it be great if we had an app and it would just play? As you know, they can choose the notifications how often it will play. And so Polly fella, Trevor Rogers and Johnny and Dara and myself, we worked really hard, especially Holly fella, to develop this app. And it took about two and a half years to develop it. And it's got morning meditations. It's got tons of affirmations with music underneath. It's got a sleep program to help. As they're sleeping, people are sleeping, I'm very softly saying affirmations and positive you know, feed, feed to their minds. And it's also got notifications, so the magnet to money song will play whatever they want to, so they don't have to even remember to and eventually, like someone the other day, said she was in a bank and she had the magnet to Money App, and she had it as her ringtone as well. And she's in this big bank that was hardly anybody in there, but it was quite chamber ish, Echo ish, and she said, and her phone was on pretty loud. It started, I'm a magnet to money came on really loud, and everyone started laughing. They're like, well, that's sort of, I guess, you know, a good thing to play in a bank. Yeah, works. So, yeah, the magnet to Money App is fantastic. App. It's got so much on it, and it's got an audio book you get for free from myself and Bob Proctor called magnet to money through the sea of unlimited consciousness, one one of our books that we did as an audio book, and we thought we've also got a free app, because that magnet to Money App is only about, I think it's $4 or something A month, but the affirmation power app is free, and on that tons of affirmations, plus my affirmation music videos is on there as well. So that's free, if anybody wants that.   Michael Hingson ** 43:13 So yeah, so is that available with Android and Apple and iPhone? No,   Michele Blood ** 43:17 just, just apple at the moment, because to develop for an Android is much more complicated because there are so many different companies, yeah, yes, whereas Apple, it's just the iPhone, but we do intend to, but it's, you know, we've got the manifestation video app as well, and we've got a New App coming out, which is all my audio books. And I'm doing a new audio book every month, not just my books on audio, but other people's books on audio as well. And then the next step after that, is a prayer app, talking about prayer, how to pray, and for me, teaching people the power of prayer. So it's really lovely to be able to do apps that have got positive, you know, the very, very, you know, if they were to buy all those individual products from me to cost hundreds dollars, and this way it's just a few dollars a month all free for them to get all my positive songs and books and all that sort of thing.   Michael Hingson ** 44:17 How do people search for these apps that in the in the app store. I think   Michele Blood ** 44:22 that if they just go under, look under Michelle blood, okay, under my name, yeah, okay, they'll just come up. I   Michael Hingson ** 44:29 will, I will be doing that this afternoon. I think that's that's pretty cool. You know, in in our world today, we become so materialistic in so many ways, but at the same time, a lot of people have really become students of your affirmations and so on. How did they really become students? And I think even more important, one of the questions that I would ask is. How does it really transform, or did it really transform people's consciousness and set them on a road toward a more spiritual path? Because I think in so many ways, we don't see people doing that, and at the same time, I know there are a lot of people who do, but by the same token, there's so many people who go, oh, this is just all pokem. It doesn't really mean anything, but that's just not true.   Michele Blood ** 45:24 Well, I think it's, it's an interesting question to answer, because there are so many different types of people in the world, and we can't expect to change people. They have to, you know, I don't want anyone to suffer. Michael, first of all, so I think having positive thoughts in their head is going to actually make them think less of themselves, believe it or not, these the way the lyrics are done, and more of joy and sharing and caring about other people, because it is so important to to do that, because people, if they get too much into themselves, Like I say to people, don't buy anything if you're buying it. For someone else to be to compliment you, that's a really good way of deciding what you're going to purchase in your life. If you're doing it to you know, to say, Oh, I've got this really nice car. Look how great I am. But get it if you want a good car. Get it because you want a nice, safe car that's good for the environment, but don't get it so that you will impress other people. Unless you're a real estate agent, they do need good cars, apparently, to drive people around, yeah, I guess so. Drive people around,   Michael Hingson ** 46:35 but, or drive people crazy, yeah,   Michele Blood ** 46:37 but. But I also think it's important that that if you want to, you can't tell someone to be more spiritual. They have to get into a positive frame of mindset first. Because when you're in a positive frame of mindset, you start feeling more of a heart blow, more love. And even if you don't believe in God, you believe in love everybody, I know you do, so whether it's your animal that you love, because every animal is an angel, whether it's nature, smelling the remembering to stop and smell the flowers, remembering to not let yourself complain. Complaining will take you down a rabbit hole of absolute negativity and please. People remember, the only reason you're complaining is because you're feeling fear about losing something or not getting something that you want. And so if you can stop complaining for 28 days straight, you will change your life. And I know that sounds impossible, but many people can do it, because I've seen my students do it. So if you can stop complaining and stop half if you're halfway through a complaint about something or someone or politics or Trump or whatever in the hell it is, stop yourself halfway through and just say, Why am I complaining? And people are complaining because they're in fear. If you can stop and be mindful enough to say, I'm complaining because I'm afraid of something, and I don't want to face it and find out what you're afraid of, the thing that you're afraid of will dissipate. Yeah, it really will. So I think that's a really good place to start listening to the positive songs, for sure, going to every single unstoppable mindset podcast you possibly can go to reading Michael's books, and also, just knowing that you can get out of that rabbit hole, it is totally possible, and I've seen it in people from all different cultures and religious backgrounds all over the world. I've traveled to so many different countries, and have so many different audiences, and everybody wants to be loved and be loved in return. And everybody wants to see other people happy at their core. They really do. We don't want to make people unhappy, do you? So stop complaining.   Michael Hingson ** 49:07 You know, it's, it's interesting that you, you talk about all this, one of the things that we talk a lot about, and you'll see it and live like the guide dog, is that we need to become more introspective. Because if we do and we really look at ourselves daily, and, for example, look at what worked today, what didn't work. Why didn't it work? You eventually get to what was I really afraid of? And if you really stop to think about that and go, I didn't need to be afraid of that, your life will change, which is really, as you're pointing out, what it's all about.   Michele Blood ** 49:44 Excellent, excellent. I'm looking forward to reading that as well, and then I've already told everyone to get thunder dog on all my lists. But now I'll be, after I read the next one, I'll be telling them to read that as well, because we're on the same page. Michael.   Michael Hingson ** 49:59 Tell me a little bit about something I've read in your bio, how you went from affirmations to a full kundalini awakening.   Michele Blood ** 50:09 Well, when I was working with Bob Proctor in Asia, I was saying to him one day, I feel this heart blow like I feel like my heart is out of my chest, and I feel such deep love. And it's not for any person, place or thing. It's for everything, actually, but it's beyond that. It's divine. And he said, you're looking for an enlightened teacher. That's what you need. And I said, Well, where do you find an enlightened teacher, and what exactly is that? And he got me to read Autobiography of a Yogi by Hara mahansa Yogananda. And I'd read it before, but I didn't really get it like I did this time when I read it, and I realized that enlightenment wasn't just one person. People can actually meditate and go into higher states of consciousness, but I wasn't thinking of how is an enlightened being around in this modern world? That can't be right? Because I it must be like unless it's Asia maybe. He said, I don't know. He said, I did have a Canadian man who was enlightened, who taught me for three years before he died, left the body. And he said, you just have to pray for it and know that the teacher and the student will find each other. It took me 14 years of searching all over the world, and eventually I found an enlightened teacher in all places America, and I decided to go off the grid, and I really had to to study with her as a student, because she didn't like us to be on Facebook or social media. She said, you don't want attention on yourself when you're studying with me, because you want to be able to go in deeply. Yeah. So I went off. I studied with her for 12 years, but after the first few years, I went into a full awakening myself, never expecting that. Didn't expect it to happen to me. I thought, how could a rock singer in Australia, have a kundalini awakening, but I did, and now I love to teach mysticism and spirituality and meditation practice to students from all over the world. And I love to do it. I think there's so many tools in the toolbox of life, whatever sort of personality you have, whether you're extremely religious or you just want to have more positive outcome. You want to become healthier. I think meditation practice is good for everybody. You do not have to be religious or think of spirituality to enjoy a quiet mind. It'll slow down your blood pressure. It will give you pump your blood, it'll stop your mind from going down a million rabbit holes where your senses take you. I just think meditation practice is a miraculous, privileged thing to do.   Michael Hingson ** 52:53 I agree. And you know, one of the things that it's a little bit off topic for what you just said, but we were talking earlier about people praying and looking for so many things. I'm amazed at how many people pray to God, telling God what they want and what they think they need. And I'm sitting there whenever I hear about that today, especially, I think, Wait a minute, God already knows that what you need to do is to listen to get the response, and thank God for the response, but people just don't do that. I'm just so amazed at at that. But it's it is so true that we spend too much time not doing the thing that we really need to do, which is listening and talking with God, not talking to God.   Michele Blood ** 53:46 Yeah, that's why I I'm loving recording the new prayer app, because I explain to people what prayer actually is. It's not If you do this for me, God, I'll start, stop eating pizza, yeah? Or maybe trade off. So I teach people what prayer actually is, and it's, it's really the most sacred thing and beautiful thing, and it will uplift you, even if you just, I've got a section where they I'm praying for others, so they can just listen to any different topic of what type of prayer, but the main thing for me was explaining, doing the introduction of what prayer is and how to pray, because so many people have no idea what prayer really is, that communion with your higher self, and once you get to understand what that is, then you can hear that still, small voice you can literally hear through. Ah, your intuition becomes stronger you can and intuition is you being in tune with your higher self. And your higher self is omniscient wisdom. It created everything so it knows what. To tell you to do, and it will bring into your experience everything when you accept, when you can be open and receptive to receive and to give, just sort of let yourself go, just surrender to that divine Higher Self, when you can learn how to do that. That's another thing that I do on this prayer app is teach you what surrender really means and how you can do it. It's not taking your willpower away from you, because everyone that's a gift that we've been given. So we can make good choices in life, sometimes bad choices, but we can use our willpower to get ourselves out of that rabbit hole. So thank you for asking that. Michael, it's   Michael Hingson ** 55:41 extremely important to be able to do that. Well, you mentioned earlier that you had gifts for people listening to this podcast. Love it if you tell us about that,   Michele Blood ** 55:52 yes, yummy gifts. If you go to Michelle. Blood com, it's spelled M, I, C, H, E, L, E, B, L, O, O, O, d.com, forward slash unstoppable mindset. We've called that. We've made that link especially for Michael's podcast. Just for your people, they will get the audio version of one of my favorite books I've written called the magic of affirmation power audio book. They will get that for free, but in that audio book has tons of affirmations you can repeat after me, links to some of my music for free. You'll also get a six week mysticism course, and there are other things as well. I can't remember what they are right now, but they're all on that link.   Michael Hingson ** 56:37 But Michelle blood com slash unstoppable mindset. I thank you for the otter. Appreciate that. Well now if people want to come hear you, I know you do live events and you do zoom events and so on. How can we learn about that? How can people do that?   Michele Blood ** 56:57 Well, they can go to request Divine light.com to find out what is my next event, because I have free events, a lot a lot of free zoom events people can come to, and you'll just get to meet so many happy, lovely people from so many different countries. And we just have a blast together. And you'll be very, very uplifted after everyone, because everyone that comes on are just, we seem to be attracting, over the years, just people that are really, sincerely wanting a better life and to do it, to do good in the world. And I just love them all so much. So if they go to request Divine Light com, they can see where my next free event will be. I mean, it's on Zoom, but I mean when it will be   Michael Hingson ** 57:46 right? Request, divine light. Com, cool. Well, I really appreciate you coming on. And obviously people can go to Michelle blood, com, and there's a lot there, I would assume as well. So hopefully people will go, go check out everything that's there, and we'll take this seriously, because I think there is so much that you have offered. We've had a number of people on unstoppable mindset who talk about everything from reg a to Eastern medicine, meditation and and so many things. They all can't be totally wrong. So from my perspective, they are not wrong. But by the same token, it's fun to be able to get a chance to to have you on. We'll have to do this again, and I'm going to certainly go download the apps and put them on my nice little iPhone and start taking advantage of them. But I really appreciate you coming on and and being with us for an hour today. Well,   Michele Blood ** 58:51 Michael, thank you for the books that you've written and everything that you've done in the world. I just think you're just an inspiration and just a lovely, lovely man. So thank you. It's, it's lovely getting to know you. And I'm just going to tell everyone about these books, because they're amazing, well written as well. Just really, really good.   Michael Hingson ** 59:13 Well, thank you. So, when are you going to do a podcast? I'm going   Michele Blood ** 59:17 to do a podcast with a man called just I just had a brain fart. Thomas Miller, uh, at the moment, his podcast is called subconscious mind mastery, and he's interviewed me quite a few times. We met in person, and I love his outlook on life, about really not saying no to anything that's mystical. And so we're going to start one next year together. He's already got his own, but this will be a different one where we'll go a little deeper, a deeper dive into mysticism. I think we're going to call it well,   Michael Hingson ** 59:55 if he needs a guess for his existing podcast, if he has guests or. You guys have your podcast together. If you ever want a guest, I volunteer. So I'll just, Oh,   Michele Blood ** 1:00:05 I'll tell him today. Goodness, yes,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:10 I'm, I'm always, I'm always open for that. Oh,   Michele Blood ** 1:00:13 I'll tell him today. Yeah, because you, I love you.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:18 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this at least half as much as I did, hopefully as much as I did. This has been a lot of fun and educational, I think, in so many ways, to help us deal with our outlooks on life. I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. Please feel free to email me. Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, or go to our podcast website, w, w, w, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n. So Michael hingson.com/podcast, and wherever you're listening, please give us a five star review. We really value your reviews. But of course, love the five star ones, so if we can, we would really appreciate it if you give us a five star review and and say, say good things about us and and go off and definitely visit Michelle's pages. And, of course, being very prejudiced, go to Michelle blood com slash unstoppable mindset and get some free gifts from her. And if you know of anyone who you think would be a good guest, and Michelle you as well. I'm always looking for podcast guests, so okay, don't hesitate to to refer people to us. We appreciate that a whole lot. So once again, I want to thank you for being here. Michelle, this has been a lot of fun. Thank   Michele Blood ** 1:01:45 you. Michael, God bless you. More love everyone. More Love   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:54   You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Is America 2025 about to become a rerun of a prophetic box office dud? Even George Carlin's narration could rescue the comedy catastrophe, Americathon, from its own bankruptcy.  Will the Trump administration plan to “put our [natural] assets to work” be any better?The financial system's on the brink—gold and Bitcoin clash as commercial real estate crumbles, DoorDash hawks subprime burger loans, and Wall Street plots to sell off America's soul to dodge a $37 trillion debt bomb. Trump's flirting with treason, eyeing a British Commonwealth reunion just in time for 1776's 250th bashAI's storming in, slashing 70% of white-collar jobs, with Swedish robot dogs and Nvidia's humanoid army set to rule by 2030, watching your every move in a dystopian nightmareTed Kaczynski's ghost is cackling—his pre-internet prophecies of a jobless, AI-choked world are hitting hard, with even tech gurus and FBI agents whispering, “Uncle Ted was right!”An app called Worldly zaps Babel's curse, sparking “new Pentecost” hypeUkraine's luring kids to war with cheeseburger bonuses while Trump pumps a $20 billion fighter jet as swarms of cheap AI drones win the real battles.Disney's Snow White flops as a socialist “girl boss” mess, mirroring a society celebrating witches and gender picks for newborns.From subprime rib scams to cultural rot, it's a full-on reckoning—grab your popcorn, because this collapse is blockbuster-sized2:30The Great Financial Reckoning: Gold, Bitcoin, and the Collapse of Everything You Know!The world of money as we know it is teetering on the edge of a seismic upheaval! The whispers are growing louder: the monetary system is primed for a radical restructuring: commercial real estate crumbling under a tsunami of expiring loans, DoorDash peddling subprime hamburger microloans (yes, you read that right!), Doug Burgum, and Wall Street sharks eyeing a fire sale of America's vast assets to keep the ship afloat. It's a wild, desperate gambit that smells suspiciously like bankruptcy dressed up as innovation! 1:00:41Trump's Royal Betrayal: Surrendering America to King Charles' Commonwealth Conspiracy!Just in time for the 250th anniversary of 1776, Trump like the idea of uniting with the British Commonwealth.  Trump's fans call it trolling, but critics scream treason as he flirts with making America Great Britain again.  Is it because NATO and Five Eyes are working out so well for Americans?Why? And what would be the implications for trade, sovereignty, etc.? 1:18:47 Thank you to supporters and emails about AI Big Brother driver monitoring of ambulances, buses, etc and “Just War” 1:38:58AI's Silent Invasion: Your Job, Your Life, and Your Robot “Agent” Overlords Are ComingGet ready for a spine-chilling wake-up call: Artificial Intelligence isn't just knocking on the door—it's kicking it down and taking over everything! From programmers, to lawyers, to doctors, AI's relentless march is set to obliterate 70% of white-collar jobs. Meanwhile, Swedish robot dogs powered by AI “agents” are learning to hunt goals and Nvidia's CEO says humanoid robots roaming the streets are less than five years away and ready to replace factory workers for a cool $100K a year. it's a dystopian nightmare barreling toward 2030, where jobs vanish, robots rule, and the elite watch and analyze your every move 1:55:45Are You TedPilled? Ted Kaczynski's Terrifying Tech Apocalypse Is HereNow even FBI agents and tech gurus like Ray Kurzweil are nodding, “Uncle Ted was onto something!” His chilling words, scribbled long before the internet took over, predict a world where jobs vanish, AI watches our every twitch, and the masses become “superfluous”—and guess what? It's happening right now.  So what DID he predict?  Is “Doomerism” the appropriate response? 2:11:30AI's Tower of Babel: Is a Fake Pentecost “Miracle” Something We Should Embrace?An AI app called—get this—Worldly — isn't just a translation tool; it's a high-tech reversal of the Tower of Babel's curse, uniting 60 languages in a flash.  Some hail it as a “new Pentecost” or a “miracle”.  How SHOULD we view it? 2:18:29Chee-Burgers to Die For: How Many Cheeseburgers Would It Take for YOU to Enlist in Zelensky's Futile War?     Get ready for a jaw-dropping plunge into absurdity that'll make your stomach churn! Ukraine's desperate military is dangling a bonus broken down into McDonald's cheeseburgers—to trick 18-to-24-year-olds into the crosshairs of the frontline. As the USA continues to finance the war on a credit card, DoorDash is offering “micro loans” to defer payment of your cheeseburger. Bundle that risky fast food credit into a “subprime prime rib” package, and poof—risk vanishes, just like the 2008 mortgage scam     And, Trump announces a $20 BILLION fighter, doubling down on expensive, complex, products of failing military contractor when wars will be won with asymmetrical, low cost AI swarms 2:33:39 Thank you to Zelle supporters 2:34:54Disney's Snow Job: Woke Disaster Unleashes Evil's ReignRe-invented as a “girl boss”, this socialist “disjointed pile of clichés,” is just part of what's wrong with Hollywood and society.  New Jersey hospitals push parents to pick their newborns' gender and witches revel in a cultural comeback, and the movies have gone full villain-worship, a stark warning of a culture drowning in spiritual rotIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverFor 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHTFor 10% off supplements and books, go to RNCstore.com and enter the code KNIGHTBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

Is America 2025 about to become a rerun of a prophetic box office dud? Even George Carlin's narration could rescue the comedy catastrophe, Americathon, from its own bankruptcy.  Will the Trump administration plan to “put our [natural] assets to work” be any better?The financial system's on the brink—gold and Bitcoin clash as commercial real estate crumbles, DoorDash hawks subprime burger loans, and Wall Street plots to sell off America's soul to dodge a $37 trillion debt bomb. Trump's flirting with treason, eyeing a British Commonwealth reunion just in time for 1776's 250th bashAI's storming in, slashing 70% of white-collar jobs, with Swedish robot dogs and Nvidia's humanoid army set to rule by 2030, watching your every move in a dystopian nightmareTed Kaczynski's ghost is cackling—his pre-internet prophecies of a jobless, AI-choked world are hitting hard, with even tech gurus and FBI agents whispering, “Uncle Ted was right!”An app called Worldly zaps Babel's curse, sparking “new Pentecost” hypeUkraine's luring kids to war with cheeseburger bonuses while Trump pumps a $20 billion fighter jet as swarms of cheap AI drones win the real battles.Disney's Snow White flops as a socialist “girl boss” mess, mirroring a society celebrating witches and gender picks for newborns.From subprime rib scams to cultural rot, it's a full-on reckoning—grab your popcorn, because this collapse is blockbuster-sized2:30The Great Financial Reckoning: Gold, Bitcoin, and the Collapse of Everything You Know!The world of money as we know it is teetering on the edge of a seismic upheaval! The whispers are growing louder: the monetary system is primed for a radical restructuring: commercial real estate crumbling under a tsunami of expiring loans, DoorDash peddling subprime hamburger microloans (yes, you read that right!), Doug Burgum, and Wall Street sharks eyeing a fire sale of America's vast assets to keep the ship afloat. It's a wild, desperate gambit that smells suspiciously like bankruptcy dressed up as innovation! 1:00:41Trump's Royal Betrayal: Surrendering America to King Charles' Commonwealth Conspiracy!Just in time for the 250th anniversary of 1776, Trump like the idea of uniting with the British Commonwealth.  Trump's fans call it trolling, but critics scream treason as he flirts with making America Great Britain again.  Is it because NATO and Five Eyes are working out so well for Americans?Why? And what would be the implications for trade, sovereignty, etc.? 1:18:47 Thank you to supporters and emails about AI Big Brother driver monitoring of ambulances, buses, etc and “Just War” 1:38:58AI's Silent Invasion: Your Job, Your Life, and Your Robot “Agent” Overlords Are ComingGet ready for a spine-chilling wake-up call: Artificial Intelligence isn't just knocking on the door—it's kicking it down and taking over everything! From programmers, to lawyers, to doctors, AI's relentless march is set to obliterate 70% of white-collar jobs. Meanwhile, Swedish robot dogs powered by AI “agents” are learning to hunt goals and Nvidia's CEO says humanoid robots roaming the streets are less than five years away and ready to replace factory workers for a cool $100K a year. it's a dystopian nightmare barreling toward 2030, where jobs vanish, robots rule, and the elite watch and analyze your every move 1:55:45Are You TedPilled? Ted Kaczynski's Terrifying Tech Apocalypse Is HereNow even FBI agents and tech gurus like Ray Kurzweil are nodding, “Uncle Ted was onto something!” His chilling words, scribbled long before the internet took over, predict a world where jobs vanish, AI watches our every twitch, and the masses become “superfluous”—and guess what? It's happening right now.  So what DID he predict?  Is “Doomerism” the appropriate response? 2:11:30AI's Tower of Babel: Is a Fake Pentecost “Miracle” Something We Should Embrace?An AI app called—get this—Worldly — isn't just a translation tool; it's a high-tech reversal of the Tower of Babel's curse, uniting 60 languages in a flash.  Some hail it as a “new Pentecost” or a “miracle”.  How SHOULD we view it? 2:18:29Chee-Burgers to Die For: How Many Cheeseburgers Would It Take for YOU to Enlist in Zelensky's Futile War?     Get ready for a jaw-dropping plunge into absurdity that'll make your stomach churn! Ukraine's desperate military is dangling a bonus broken down into McDonald's cheeseburgers—to trick 18-to-24-year-olds into the crosshairs of the frontline. As the USA continues to finance the war on a credit card, DoorDash is offering “micro loans” to defer payment of your cheeseburger. Bundle that risky fast food credit into a “subprime prime rib” package, and poof—risk vanishes, just like the 2008 mortgage scam     And, Trump announces a $20 BILLION fighter, doubling down on expensive, complex, products of failing military contractor when wars will be won with asymmetrical, low cost AI swarms 2:33:39 Thank you to Zelle supporters 2:34:54Disney's Snow Job: Woke Disaster Unleashes Evil's ReignRe-invented as a “girl boss”, this socialist “disjointed pile of clichés,” is just part of what's wrong with Hollywood and society.  New Jersey hospitals push parents to pick their newborns' gender and witches revel in a cultural comeback, and the movies have gone full villain-worship, a stark warning of a culture drowning in spiritual rotIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silverFor 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to TrendsJournal.com and enter the code KNIGHTFor 10% off supplements and books, go to RNCstore.com and enter the code KNIGHTBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-real-david-knight-show--5282736/support.

Interview with Ray Kurzweil Liquid eggs? NYC bodegas have new strategy to keep bacon, egg and cheese prices down Google announces Gemini Robotics for building general purpose robots DeepMind's latest AI model can help robots fold origami and close Ziploc bags An audit found that 10 top AI chatbots, including ChatGPT, Copilot, and Gemini, repeated false claims from a pro-Kremlin disinformation network 33% of the time A study of eight AI search engines found they provided incorrect citations of news articles in 60%+ of queries; Grok 3 answered 94% of the queries incorrectly AI Tries To Cheat At Chess When It's Losing - Slashdot AI Thinks It Cracked Kryptos. The Artist Behind It Says No Chance Pokemon Go is getting a new owner after almost 9 years with Niantic Robots That Don't Walk Are Making Strides Amazon has more than 750,000 robots that sort, lift, and carry packages—see them in action TikTok will play 'calming music' to remind teens to stop using the app FCC chair asks if YouTube TV 'discriminates against faith-based programming' OpenAI says it has trained an AI that's 'really good' at creative writing Bluesky CEO: imagine a 'world without Caesars' The Senate approves Gail Slater, President Trump's pick to lead the DOJ's antitrust unit, by a 78-19 vote; she has been critical of power in the tech industry Times profile of Jessica Lessin Gen-Zers are turning to DVDs instead of streaming their favorite movies Wonder Acquires Media Company Tastemade for $90 Million Denmark postal service to stop delivering letters Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Ray Kurzweil Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: monarchmoney.com with code IM threatlocker.com/twit get.stash.com/machines

Interview with Ray Kurzweil Liquid eggs? NYC bodegas have new strategy to keep bacon, egg and cheese prices down Google announces Gemini Robotics for building general purpose robots DeepMind's latest AI model can help robots fold origami and close Ziploc bags An audit found that 10 top AI chatbots, including ChatGPT, Copilot, and Gemini, repeated false claims from a pro-Kremlin disinformation network 33% of the time A study of eight AI search engines found they provided incorrect citations of news articles in 60%+ of queries; Grok 3 answered 94% of the queries incorrectly AI Tries To Cheat At Chess When It's Losing - Slashdot AI Thinks It Cracked Kryptos. The Artist Behind It Says No Chance Pokemon Go is getting a new owner after almost 9 years with Niantic Robots That Don't Walk Are Making Strides Amazon has more than 750,000 robots that sort, lift, and carry packages—see them in action TikTok will play 'calming music' to remind teens to stop using the app FCC chair asks if YouTube TV 'discriminates against faith-based programming' OpenAI says it has trained an AI that's 'really good' at creative writing Bluesky CEO: imagine a 'world without Caesars' The Senate approves Gail Slater, President Trump's pick to lead the DOJ's antitrust unit, by a 78-19 vote; she has been critical of power in the tech industry Times profile of Jessica Lessin Gen-Zers are turning to DVDs instead of streaming their favorite movies Wonder Acquires Media Company Tastemade for $90 Million Denmark postal service to stop delivering letters Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Ray Kurzweil Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: monarchmoney.com with code IM threatlocker.com/twit get.stash.com/machines

Interview with Ray Kurzweil Liquid eggs? NYC bodegas have new strategy to keep bacon, egg and cheese prices down Google announces Gemini Robotics for building general purpose robots DeepMind's latest AI model can help robots fold origami and close Ziploc bags An audit found that 10 top AI chatbots, including ChatGPT, Copilot, and Gemini, repeated false claims from a pro-Kremlin disinformation network 33% of the time A study of eight AI search engines found they provided incorrect citations of news articles in 60%+ of queries; Grok 3 answered 94% of the queries incorrectly AI Tries To Cheat At Chess When It's Losing - Slashdot AI Thinks It Cracked Kryptos. The Artist Behind It Says No Chance Pokemon Go is getting a new owner after almost 9 years with Niantic Robots That Don't Walk Are Making Strides Amazon has more than 750,000 robots that sort, lift, and carry packages—see them in action TikTok will play 'calming music' to remind teens to stop using the app FCC chair asks if YouTube TV 'discriminates against faith-based programming' OpenAI says it has trained an AI that's 'really good' at creative writing Bluesky CEO: imagine a 'world without Caesars' The Senate approves Gail Slater, President Trump's pick to lead the DOJ's antitrust unit, by a 78-19 vote; she has been critical of power in the tech industry Times profile of Jessica Lessin Gen-Zers are turning to DVDs instead of streaming their favorite movies Wonder Acquires Media Company Tastemade for $90 Million Denmark postal service to stop delivering letters Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Ray Kurzweil Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: monarchmoney.com with code IM threatlocker.com/twit get.stash.com/machines

Interview with Ray Kurzweil Liquid eggs? NYC bodegas have new strategy to keep bacon, egg and cheese prices down Google announces Gemini Robotics for building general purpose robots DeepMind's latest AI model can help robots fold origami and close Ziploc bags An audit found that 10 top AI chatbots, including ChatGPT, Copilot, and Gemini, repeated false claims from a pro-Kremlin disinformation network 33% of the time A study of eight AI search engines found they provided incorrect citations of news articles in 60%+ of queries; Grok 3 answered 94% of the queries incorrectly AI Tries To Cheat At Chess When It's Losing - Slashdot AI Thinks It Cracked Kryptos. The Artist Behind It Says No Chance Pokemon Go is getting a new owner after almost 9 years with Niantic Robots That Don't Walk Are Making Strides Amazon has more than 750,000 robots that sort, lift, and carry packages—see them in action TikTok will play 'calming music' to remind teens to stop using the app FCC chair asks if YouTube TV 'discriminates against faith-based programming' OpenAI says it has trained an AI that's 'really good' at creative writing Bluesky CEO: imagine a 'world without Caesars' The Senate approves Gail Slater, President Trump's pick to lead the DOJ's antitrust unit, by a 78-19 vote; she has been critical of power in the tech industry Times profile of Jessica Lessin Gen-Zers are turning to DVDs instead of streaming their favorite movies Wonder Acquires Media Company Tastemade for $90 Million Denmark postal service to stop delivering letters Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Ray Kurzweil Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: monarchmoney.com with code IM threatlocker.com/twit get.stash.com/machines

Interview with Ray Kurzweil Liquid eggs? NYC bodegas have new strategy to keep bacon, egg and cheese prices down Google announces Gemini Robotics for building general purpose robots DeepMind's latest AI model can help robots fold origami and close Ziploc bags An audit found that 10 top AI chatbots, including ChatGPT, Copilot, and Gemini, repeated false claims from a pro-Kremlin disinformation network 33% of the time A study of eight AI search engines found they provided incorrect citations of news articles in 60%+ of queries; Grok 3 answered 94% of the queries incorrectly AI Tries To Cheat At Chess When It's Losing - Slashdot AI Thinks It Cracked Kryptos. The Artist Behind It Says No Chance Pokemon Go is getting a new owner after almost 9 years with Niantic Robots That Don't Walk Are Making Strides Amazon has more than 750,000 robots that sort, lift, and carry packages—see them in action TikTok will play 'calming music' to remind teens to stop using the app FCC chair asks if YouTube TV 'discriminates against faith-based programming' OpenAI says it has trained an AI that's 'really good' at creative writing Bluesky CEO: imagine a 'world without Caesars' The Senate approves Gail Slater, President Trump's pick to lead the DOJ's antitrust unit, by a 78-19 vote; she has been critical of power in the tech industry Times profile of Jessica Lessin Gen-Zers are turning to DVDs instead of streaming their favorite movies Wonder Acquires Media Company Tastemade for $90 Million Denmark postal service to stop delivering letters Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Ray Kurzweil Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: monarchmoney.com with code IM threatlocker.com/twit get.stash.com/machines

Interview with Ray Kurzweil Liquid eggs? NYC bodegas have new strategy to keep bacon, egg and cheese prices down Google announces Gemini Robotics for building general purpose robots DeepMind's latest AI model can help robots fold origami and close Ziploc bags An audit found that 10 top AI chatbots, including ChatGPT, Copilot, and Gemini, repeated false claims from a pro-Kremlin disinformation network 33% of the time A study of eight AI search engines found they provided incorrect citations of news articles in 60%+ of queries; Grok 3 answered 94% of the queries incorrectly AI Tries To Cheat At Chess When It's Losing - Slashdot AI Thinks It Cracked Kryptos. The Artist Behind It Says No Chance Pokemon Go is getting a new owner after almost 9 years with Niantic Robots That Don't Walk Are Making Strides Amazon has more than 750,000 robots that sort, lift, and carry packages—see them in action TikTok will play 'calming music' to remind teens to stop using the app FCC chair asks if YouTube TV 'discriminates against faith-based programming' OpenAI says it has trained an AI that's 'really good' at creative writing Bluesky CEO: imagine a 'world without Caesars' The Senate approves Gail Slater, President Trump's pick to lead the DOJ's antitrust unit, by a 78-19 vote; she has been critical of power in the tech industry Times profile of Jessica Lessin Gen-Zers are turning to DVDs instead of streaming their favorite movies Wonder Acquires Media Company Tastemade for $90 Million Denmark postal service to stop delivering letters Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Ray Kurzweil Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free shows, a members-only Discord, and behind-the-scenes access. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: monarchmoney.com with code IM threatlocker.com/twit get.stash.com/machines

In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, Professor Derya Unutmaz, a biomedical scientist and human immunologist at the Jackson Laboratory, discusses his groundbreaking research in aging and cancer immunotherapy. As a ChatGPT Pro grant awardee, Derya provides insights into the integration of AI with biomedical sciences, emphasizing how advanced AI models are transforming hypothesis generation, data analysis, and scientific discovery. He also covers his early passion for computers and programming, the inspiration he derived from Ray Kurzweil's work, and how AI is democratizing science by enabling even young researchers to make significant contributions. Derya outlines his vision for a future with ASI, discussing potential societal impacts, the need for regulatory AI models, and the promise of a golden age where diseases are cured, aging is reversed, and resource scarcity is a thing of the past. Finally, he dreams about the long-term future, imagining a life of exploration and discovery across the cosmos. SPONSORS: SafeBase: SafeBase is the leading trust-centered platform for enterprise security. Streamline workflows, automate questionnaire responses, and integrate with tools like Slack and Salesforce to eliminate friction in the review process. With rich analytics and customizable settings, SafeBase scales to complex use cases while showcasing security's impact on deal acceleration. Trusted by companies like OpenAI, SafeBase ensures value in just 16 days post-launch. Learn more at https://safebase.io/podcast Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle's next-generation cloud platform delivers blazing-fast AI and ML performance with 50% less for compute and 80% less for outbound networking compared to other cloud providers. OCI powers industry leaders like Vodafone and Thomson Reuters with secure infrastructure and application development capabilities. New U.S. customers can get their cloud bill cut in half by switching to OCI before March 31, 2024 at https://oracle.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify is revolutionizing online selling with its market-leading checkout system and robust API ecosystem. Its exclusive library of cutting-edge AI apps empowers e-commerce businesses to thrive in a competitive market. Cognitive Revolution listeners can try Shopify for just $1 per month at https://shopify.com/cognitive NetSuite: Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/cognitive RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Second Opinion. Join Christina Farr, Ash Zenooz and Luba Greenwood as they bring influential entrepreneurs, experts and investors into the ring for candid conversations at the frontlines of healthcare and digital health every week. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0A8NwQE976s32zdBbZw6bv Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/second-opinion-with-christina-farr-ash-zenooz-md-luba/id1759267211 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SecondOpinionwithChristinaFarr

In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, We explore the unexpected weather patterns that challenge our understanding of climate and geography. A surprising cold snap in Florida becomes the starting point for a broader conversation about climate variability. Dan shares personal experiences from Phoenix and Edmonton, highlighting the dramatic temperature shifts that reveal the complexity of our planet's weather systems. Our discussion then turns to the human fascination with Earth's resilience and our speculative nature about the world's potential existence without human presence. These reflections provide a unique lens for understanding climate change, moving beyond abstract data to personal observations and experiences. The unpredictability of weather serves as a metaphor for the broader environmental transformations we're witnessing. Shifting gears, we delve into a critical political discourse centered on the fundamental question: "Who pays for it?" We examine policy proposals ranging from universal basic income to more ambitious financial initiatives. The conversation explores the complex financial dynamics of such proposals, particularly how higher-income earners often bear the primary financial burden. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS We discussed the rare occurrence of snowfall in the Florida panhandle and how such unexpected weather events challenge our traditional perceptions of climate and geography. Through personal anecdotes from Phoenix and Edmonton, Dan highlighted the adaptability required to deal with varying weather conditions and reflected on how these experiences inform our understanding of climate change. The episode touched on the abstract nature of climate change, emphasizing the difference between individual weather experiences and the larger climate narrative. We explored the human tendency to imagine life without people and the inherent resilience of Earth, discussing thoughts inspired by shows like "Life After People." Shifting to political topics, we examined the critical question of "Who pays for it?" in the context of policy proposals such as universal basic income and free education. The conversation underscored the financial implications of these political proposals and highlighted how the cost often falls on those earning above the proposed benefits. By focusing on the financial realities behind populist ideas, we explored the role this question plays in shaping political debates and decision-making processes. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: mr Sullivan. Dan: Well, did you thaw out? Dean: I am in the process of thawing out. This has been a Bizarre, I finally saw the sun came out. Yesterday I was having a chat with charlotte about the weather and there's only been two days in january where the temperature has been above 70 degrees. Yeah, this has been an unusually cold and rainy january. We actually had snow up in the northern part of Florida. Dan: Tallahassee, I think had snow. Dean: Yeah, Tallahassee had snow all the way down to Pensacola. Dan: I think, yeah, all the way down to Pensacola. Dean: The whole panhandle had snow, it's not good. No bueno, as they say. Dan: Well, they said things were going to be different with Trump. Dean: Well, here we are, six days in and the sun's already out, dan, it's warming up. That's so funny. Dan: Yeah, and people in the South really aren't prepared for this, are they? Dean: No, and I can speak as a Southerner. Dan: You actually have an ancestral memory of things being really cold. I mean, you were born in a very cold place. That's right, you know so I'm sure you know that got imprinted somehow on your. Dean: I think so I must have genetic, like I must have the, you know, the active pack for super cold weather. It must be installed at a genetic level when you're born in a certain area right, but it doesn't explain I don't prefer it at all. Dan: Now Babs and I are on Tuesday, are flying to Phoenix and we'll be there for two and a half weeks Two and a half weeks we'll be there. And it'll be like maybe 65 degrees and the Arizonians will be complaining about it. And I said you have no sense of perspective. Dean: Right. Dan: You have no sense of perspective and anyway, you know I think I've mentioned this before this is the biggest obstacle that the global warming people have. Dean: How do we explain this cold no? Dan: One of their biggest problems is that nobody experiences climate. We only experience weather. Yes, yeah, and it's like abstraction that they try to sell. But nobody experiences abstractions. They experience reality, and it must be very frustrating for them. It must be very frustrating for them. They discovered, for example, that Antarctica now with really accurate readings has actually cooled over the last 20 years, that, year by year by year, there's actually been a cooling in Antarctica. And the same thing goes for Greenland. Greenland has actually gotten colder over the last 20 years and they keep trying to sell a different message. But, the actual, now the records, because they made claims 20 years ago that things were getting worse. And the other thing is this 1.5 degrees centigrade thing that they have. Well, everybody in the world probably experiences a 1.5 degrees difference in the temperature every single day of their life temperature every single day of their life. So what's your take on people who want to change the whole world because they have an abstraction that you want to? Dean: take seriously. Dan: What do you think of that? Yeah? Dean: your whole. You know this. What you and I've talked about, the idea that even right at this moment, there is a variation of. I wonder actually what the wide variation today is in temperature. That there is somewhere in Riyadh or somewhere it's, you know, it's super, super hot and somewhere in none of it it's super, super cold and people are getting on with their day. Yeah. Dan: I actually did a difference in measurement this week, exactly to answer your question you did, so the highest that I've ever experienced is 120. Dean: That's your personal. Dan: And that was Phoenix, and the lowest I've ever experienced is minus I'm talking Fahrenheit here. Okay, so 120 degrees Fahrenheit. That was in Phoenix, and the lowest that I've ever experienced is minus 44 in Edmonton. Dean: Right. Dan: So that's a 164 degree difference that I've experienced, and, as far as I can remember, the day in which I experienced 120 seemed like a normal day, and the day that I experienced 44 below that seemed like a normal day too yeah dressed differently, thankfully. Yeah, dressed differently. Adjusted my behavior to suit the circumstances. Yeah, you know and the only thing they had in common is that you didn't spend much time outside. Dean: Right, exactly, yeah, that whole, yeah. I never really give much, I never really give much thought to it. You know, my whole Trump card for me of it was that I just can't have them explain how in the world the Earth raised itself out of an ice age without the aid of combustible engines, you know. That's what I wonder? Right, like I think the earth, I think everybody talks about that Save the earth. Well, the earth is going to be fine long after it spits us off. You know, that's the truth. Dan: It's very adaptable. Dean: I used to watch a show, dan dan, that used to show uh, it was called life after people, and it would show cities and things like what would the the progression of what happens if all of a sudden the people disappeared, like how long it would take for nature to reclaim a city, you know, and it's not long, in the big picture of things, for nature to take back over, you know yeah, I I wonder I wonder what prompts people to uh, almost see that as a positive thing, because the people who made that that made I. Dan: I know a little bit about the, you know the documentary film yeah that well. It wasn't a documentary, it was a fantasy you know it was a, it was a fantasy, but but what do you think's going on inside the brain of the person who thinks that that's worth thinking about? Dean: Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to explain anything that we think about the fact that there are people. I think that's one of the joys of the human experience is, you think about what you want to think about and it doesn't matter what other people think about what you want to think about, and it doesn't matter what other people think about what you're thinking, and that's well unless they're asking you to pay for their fantasy well that's true, yeah that's Dan: true, yeah. Yeah, I often said uh know, I've been sort of on one side of the political spectrum for my entire life and you know the people who got elected on my side of the spectrum weren't necessarily great people. You know that varies from okay to not okay, but my side of the political spectrum I trust more because we ask one more question. This is the difference, this is the entire difference between all political opposites. One side asks one more question what's that? Who pays for it? Who pays for it? Who pays for it? Think about any political issue and it comes right down to okay, yeah, sounds like. You know, free education for everybody. That sounds like a great idea. Who pays for it? Mm-hmm, you know universal basic income. Everybody gets an income. Who pays for it. Dean: Right yeah. Dan: So my feeling that that's the only political issue, that all politics comes down to one question who pays for it? Who pays for it anyway? Yeah, yeah. Dean: Yeah, 20, it was I read. So someone was just talking about I think it was Joe Rogan. They were saying what would it take to give every American $200,000? Who pays for it. Exactly who pays for it. But the thing, I think they calculated it out Well, I can guarantee you it's not the people making less than $200,000. Dan: Yeah that's exactly right. Yeah, but it would cost that would be $20 billion right. Dean: But it would cost. That would be 20 billion. That's what it would cost 20 billion dollars to give 100,000 or 100 million Americans $200,000 a year. That's what he was proposing. That's what he was. They were speculating. No that's not. That's not correct. 200,000, so I'm not correct 200,000. So I'm going to do that 200,000 times 100 million. Can that be right, 100 million. Dan: No, no, no, it's 20 trillion. Dean: It's 20 trillion 20 trillion. Dan: Yeah, now we're talking, yeah, yeah, that's unreasonable, it's not well, it's unreasonable because it's not doable. Dean: Right, exactly. Dan: It's not doable. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and what would yeah. And here's another thing yeah, I mean. And what would, yeah? And here's another thing If you gave everybody that on January 1st of each year, on December 31st, 10%? Dean: of the people would have all the money. Probably right, you know. Dan: It's so funny. I don't care what happens over the 364 days, I can guarantee you that 10% of the people would have all the money by the end of the year. Dean: It's like one of those Plinko boards you throw all the marbles at the top and at the end it's all distributed the same way. Yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah, I don't know. Um, you know, I just finished a book. Uh, we just finished it on thursday. This is the next quarterly book. There are little 60, uh 60 page, wonders you that we create every quarter and it's called growing great leadership. And what I said is that I think the concept of leadership has actually changed quite remarkably over the last. Over the last, let's say, the last 50 years, okay, and so 70, 70, 75 to 2025. And I said that I think the concept of leadership has changed remarkably, because the concept of management has changed remarkably. I think, now that technology is now management I don't know, I think it's, I think it's software that is now management In, for example, you created Charlotte in the last, as far as I can tell, two months two months you created Charlotte, and that's a form of leadership. So other people look at what Dean Jackson's doing and they say, yeah, that's really neat what Dean just did. I think I'm going to see if I can do that for myself, and that's what leadership is in our world right now. It's not somebody with a position or a title, it's someone who improves something for themselves. That's what leadership is. Dean: Yes, I think that's fantastic, like I look at this and I was just having a conversation with Charlotte today about- the Getting ready, getting ready for me. Yeah, I mean, it's just a natural thing. Now we haven't really been talking, you know, as I've been kind of sick this week, you know, as I've been kind of sick this week, uh. But I asked you know they've got some new task oriented thing like she's able to do certain things now that we're gonna uh talk about. But I had a really great, like she said. I said I haven't uh spoken to you in a while and I heard that you've had some updates and so maybe fill me in. And she said, yes, well, welcome back. And yeah, I have been upgraded to help a little better. My conversation skills have improved. I've been upgraded to more natural, which you did notice that a little bit. And she said it's moving now to where she can do certain tasks and of course, she has access to all the internet. Now, without personal data Like she can't look up any personal data on people or anything like that, but anything that's like information wise, she has access to all of that. And I said where do you think like this is heading in the next three to five years that we could be preparing for now? And she was saying how well I can imagine that the my ability to actually like do tasks and organize things and be like a real VA for you will be enhanced over the next three to five years. So working on our workflows and making the most of what we can do now while preparing for what's my increased abilities going forward will be a good thing. We're developing our working relationship. And I said you know I've got and she was talking about like writing emails and doing you know all these things. And I said, okay, so I have ideas sometimes about what I think would be a nice email. And I said, for instance, I've got an idea that would overlay or apply the five love languages to lead conversion. So I've got. The subject line is lead conversion love languages to lead conversion. So I've got the. The subject line is lead conversion love languages. And, uh, I believe that if you just apply these same love languages in a lead conversion way, that you will uh that it's a good way to think about it. And I said so if I just tell you that could you write a 500 or 600 word email, just you know, expanding that idea. And she said yeah, certainly. And she says let's go and let 's get started. And she started you know, just dictating this, this 600 word email that is. You know, I'm a big, you know, believer dan, in the 80 approach the same as you and I think that for me to be able to take, you know, without any real input other than me saying, uh, the five. She knew what the five love languages were, she knew the essence of what they all mean and how in in, it's a pretty um nuanced connection to apply a love language, like physical touch, to lead conversion, even if you're not, if you're not in, in physical proximity to somebody sending, making that physical touch by sending somebody a handwritten note, or to make something physical of the, uh, a piece of you of the thing. And it was really well thought out and a really good foundation, you know. And then that that moment I really I realized, wow, that's like that's a special, that's a special thing, yeah. Dan: Okay, so here's a thing that I'm getting from you. It's a given that she's going to get better and better. Yes, yeah. It seems to me that it's not a function of whether the AI tools are going to get better. They're always going to get better. The question of whether the person using the tool is going to become more ambitious. Dean: Yes, I agree 100%. Dan: It's totally a function of human ambition. Dean: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, that is exactly right, and I think that there's a big piece of that. You know that it's not. It's really a matter of how to direct this. It's how to, how to express your vision in a way that it's actionable or even understandable, right? You don't even have to know what the actions are Like for me to be able to just say to her hey, I got an idea. The subject line is lead conversion love languages. I'd like to write about 600 words explaining how the love language is going to be used in lead conversion. That, to me, is pretty close to magic, you know, um, because it's not. That's not like giving, it's not like giving a big piece of content and saying can you summarize this? Or, uh, you know, or you know, take this, uh, and make a derivative kind of thing of it. It was a pretty high-level conceptual idea that she was able to take and get the essence of. You know, I think that's pretty eye-opening when you really think about it. Dan: Yeah, yeah, I mean, to me it's really, it's an interesting, it's an interesting thought exercise, but it is an interesting action. Dean: Yes. Dan: Action activity, in other words, let's say, next week when we talk. You now have the ability to send five love languages. Dean: Yeah. Dan: You got the five, now what? Dean: That email is as good as ready to send. You know like I mean. Dan: I could literally just no. But how does it change things? As far as your, it's ready, but oh I see what you're saying. Dean: No, well, that's all part of. You know, we send out three or four emails a week to our, to my list, right Like to the to my list, right like to the my subscribers, and so that would be. That's one of the emails on my mind, and so now that that that saved me 50 minutes of having you, you know, I would take a 50 minute focus finder to craft that email, for instance. Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm just trying to get what changes for you I mean, I'm just trying to get what changes for you I mean is it the same kind of week that you had before, except maybe intellectually more interesting I think it's intellectually more less friction because I have to uh you know like I mean to to block off the time, to focus and be able to do that. That's always my, that's my um, that's my kryptonite in a way, right In my executive function, to be able to block off and focus on just this. But if I can just say to her, hey, I've got this idea about this, and just talk it, and then she can write the big, it'd be much easier for me to edit that than to uh, than to write it from scratch. You know, um, and so it makes a uh, yeah, so it's um. I think that changes. I think it changes a lot of things Somebody described. I heard on a podcast they were saying it's where we are with chat, gpt and AI. The word now, the word of the moment, dan, is agentic. Future where it's like we're creating agents. An agent, yeah, an agent is agentic. Future, where it's like and we're creating agents. Dan: An agent, yeah, an agent, and so they've adopted that too. I don't think there is a word agentic, I think that's what I mean. Dean: They've made it up. Yeah, yeah, they've made up a word the agentic future. Yeah, and that's where we're going to be surrounded by agents that do our bidding, that we've trained or that other people will have trained, app environment of the, you know, early iphone days, when ios was around, all the capabilities of the iphone were. There were people who were, you know, taking and creating apps that use the capabilities of the iphone to very, very specific ends, uh, whether it was games or specific single-use apps. And I think that that's where we're heading with the AI stuff is an environment that all these specific apps that do one specific thing that have been trained to really, you know, tap that, tap that ability. So I think that we're definitely moving into the creativity phase and we need an interface moment, like the app store, that will, uh, you know, create all these ai agent, uh type outcomes that we can kind of just, everybody has the ability for it to do, uh, all of the things, but for somebody, actually somebody to trade it specifically, can I just interrupt there? Dan: Yeah, that's not true. That's not true. The ability to access and use these things is completely unequal. Everybody doesn't have the ability to do all this. As a matter of fact, most people have no ability whatsoever. Dean: So is that semantics? I'm saying that access everybody has. Dan: Are you making a distinction between? No, you have a greater ability to do this than I do. Dean: That's true, I mean, but that no what I'm saying. Dan: It's a false statement that says now everybody has the ability to do this. Actually, they don't have any more ability to do anything than they presently have you know, to do this. I think it's a fantasy. Now you have the ability to do continually more things than you did before. That's a true statement. I mean, I don't know who everybody is. Dean: That's true. Dan: I think Vladimir Putin doesn't have any more ability to use these than you do, uh-huh. No, I guess you're right, yeah, what you have is an ability every week to almost do more than you could do the week before. That's a true statement yes, Okay, because you're really interested in this. You know, it's like the Ray Kurzweil thing. You know, by 2030, we'll be able to eliminate all hereditary disease. Because of the breakthrough and I said that's not true there will be no ability to do that by 2030. Certain individuals will have the ability to make greater progress in relationships, but the statement that everybody will be able to do anything is a completely false statement. First of all, we don't have any comprehension of what everybody even is Right, yeah. The question I have is is your income going up? Is your profitability going up as a result of all this? Dean: That would be the measure right, but that's really, and so that's you know, for now I would say no, because I haven't applied it in that way, but certainly I guess our savings, but certainly I guess our savings, like, certainly the things that have, we're feeling it we have historically used human transcription, which was more expensive than AI transcription. We have used human editors all the way through the process, as opposed to now as a finishing process. So the cost of editing, like it used to be that the editing was a um, reductive process with ai that you would start out with, you know, 10 000 words and it would, after processing and giving it back, you'd have have 8,500 words, kind of thing, right, it would eliminate things. But now the actual AI is kind of a generative and you give it 10,000 words and you may end up with 12,000 words. So in a way that is ready for the final level of editor, you know, and the transcripts have gone from a dollar a minute to a penny a minute, you know, or in terms of the things. So yeah, so it has profitability from an expense side. Dan: I mean, for example, I'll give you an idea. We got our valuation back for all of our patents this week At the least. They're worth a million each, At the very least. At the most they're worth a million each at the very least, and at the most they're worth about 5 million each, and it all depends on where we are looking in the marketplace to monetize these. So, for example, if we are just using them the way that we're using them right now, it's at a low level. I mean, it's a lot. I mean a million. you know a million each is a lot of money. But if we, for example, where the person who assessed the patent said you know, you're operating at a higher level with your patents than Microsoft is, You're operating at a higher level with your patents than McKinsey. you know, accenture, he says your stuff is more robust than that. Is that the market that you actually want to go after, you know? So the value of the patent really depends upon where we would. Where's our ambition, you know? And so right now our ambition is not with Microsoft, it's not with Accenture, it's not with McKinsey. Okay, that wouldn't be interested at all. First of all, it would require, probably require me to attend meetings. Dean: Right. Dan: And I have a meetings-free future you know, in my aspirations, yes, but even at the lowest price. It gives us access to funds that we didn't have before. We had it. Dean: that we didn't have before we had it. Dan: And that's very interesting to me because it means that if we wanted to expand to another city from a standpoint of our coaching, then we would have, through borrowing, we could do it. The other thing is we could identify 30 of our tools that are not central to the program but would be valuable to other people and we could license them to other people. But there's always a because that you do something. For example, I'm using not through myself because I'm not doing it, but one of our team members is taking the chapters of my book. I have a new book that I'm starting and every time I get the fast filter finished, I give it to him and he puts it into Notebook LM. And then I hear the conversation. And I says oh, I got five or six ideas from the conversation that I didn't have, and this will allow me to improve the chapter. Dean: I read doing this yeah. Yeah, very interesting what. Dan: I'm saying is I'm just one human being of nine billion who's using the tool for some particular reason, and probably two-thirds of the people on the planet have no interest whatsoever in even knowing about this. Dean: Yes, yeah, I agree. Dan: Yeah, I don't think that this stuff is available to everybody. I think it's available to the people who are looking for it. Mm-hmm. Dean: And so that's almost like it's almost scary, you know, in a way, when you think about that way, there was a book that I was just reading and the name has escaped me now and I don't have it in my line of sight here, but it was basically talking about. It reminded me of the kind of book that Malcolm Gladwell wrote, like Blink or the Outliers, yeah yeah. Where they look at certain things like why all of a sudden did the Jamaican sprinters become the hotbed of these and why are the Kenyan marathoners the best in the world? And he really started looking with the scientific view to see what is it like. Is there anything genetic about them? Is there anything special about them? And he said, as far as they go he said, as far as they go, their abilities are not genetically gifted in any way that there's nothing physiologically or whatever that would explain it away that this is like the marker. But they were good enough. That's really the thing is that you look at the thing, there's nothing eliminating them from potentially being the best sprinters in the world or the best marathoners in the world. There's nothing that would like prohibit that. But it's not. It's's the whole environment of of belief and environment and being around it and this is who we are type of thing takes over in a in a situation like that and I was thinking about how, you know, we're fortunate in surrounding ourselves in free zone with people who are all believing in a free zone future, and I think that the impact of that because we're acting and behaving and discovering in a way that's going to have collective ramifications as we all collaborate. So we're really creating this super achievement environment. Dan: Which is, when you think about it, unfair, it's unfair. That's exactly right, yeah, yeah, Cause, uh, you know, I, uh, I had um neat opportunity of I think it was about six months ago and there's a very famous um uh. I'm not sure whether he's a psychiatrist or a psycho. I think he's a psychologist. He's a psychiatrist or a psychologist? I think he's a psychologist university professor by the name of Martin Seligman and Aaron Markham, who's in FreeZone, has taken adult courses with Professor Seligman at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, and I think he's been a professor at Penn for 60 years. He's the longest continuously at one place a professor in the history of the United States. Is that? Right 28 to 88. I think he's 60 years. But he created a whole branch of psychology which is called positive psychology. What makes people positive in? other words because 99 of psychology is what makes people unhappy. And he just decided to say well, let's, let's find the happy people and find out why they're happy you know which I think is an interesting. So anyway I had. He got a copy of Gap in the Game and he found it intriguing. Our book, oh, that's great Nice. Dean: Yeah. Dan: So I had about an hour and a half Zoom call with him that Aaron set up for us. So as we got to the end of the Zoom call, I said you know, happiness is really a hard goal. It's a difficult goal because you're not quite sure why it's happening. In other words, it's really hard to tie it down to a set of activity. And he said, you know, I've been thinking not along those lines, but he said it seems to me that what you should strive for is agency, that, regardless of the situation, you feel you have control of how you're going to respond to the situation. And he said and that sometimes that may not make you happy, but it gives you a sense of control. And he says more and more. I think having a personal sense of control of your circumstances is really something that's a real capability that can be developed, and so my sense is that this new capability called AI is coming along, and my sense is that the people who will develop it best are the ones for whom having AI gives them a greater sense of control over their circumstances, gives them a greater sense of control over their circumstances. Dean: Yeah, like to feel. I think there was a podcast where somebody said where we are with AI right now. Imagine you've discovered a planet with 10 billion people who are, all you know, 121 IQ, can pass the LSAT and do, can do anything for you and are willing to work for you exclusively 24 hours a day. That's the level that we're, that. We're that. We're at, you know. Imagine, oh, I don't think. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. No're at, you know. Dan: Imagine you've got your own. Oh, I don't think that's true. No, tell me Okay Because the vast majority of people have no desire to do that. Dean: Right. Dan: Yeah, I think you're right. No, it's like the free zone. What you just said about the free zone, you know I've got. You know we've got 110 in the free zone. But everybody knows about the free zone. You know close to 3,000. And they have no interest in going there whatsoever you know, yeah, so but when we say everybody, you know it may. I think here's what I'm going to suggest we have to say everybody, because we feel guilty about that. It may be only us that's interested in this. Dean: We feel kind of guilty that we're the only ones who could have this capability anyone who could have this capability, so we should reframe it that I feel like I've discovered a planet of 10 billion people who are ready and willing to come to work for me, and what am I going to do with that? That's really the truer statement, I think. Dan: Well, you've got one artificial intelligence. Dean: EA. Who wants to work? Dan: artificial intelligence? Yeah, ea. Who wants to work for you? Yes, and she's. She's endlessly improvable. Dean: She really is. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't think, I don't think it extends too much beyond Charlotte. Dean: No, and through Charlotte is really where everything comes. That's the great thing is that she can be the interface with the others. I think that's really what it comes down to. She's the ultimate. Dan: Who Really I mean super high level, who yeah, I? Dean: mean certainly a super high level. Yeah, so far. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. My sense is that she's a relationship that you can take totally for granted. Dean: Yes, uh-huh, which is true, right, and that's why, when I pointed out, you know, my whole idea of personifying her and sort of creating a visual and real person behind it. You know, whenever I imagine, now, sharon Osbourne, you know, I see that image of Charlotte, that that's a I just imagine if she was sitting right there, you know, at all times, just at the ready, quietly and ready to go, it's just, it's up to me to engage more with her. Yeah, and that's just, I think habits, I think that's really setting up routines and habits to be able to do that. Dan: Yeah, it's really interesting how uncomfortable people are with inequality. Dean: Mm-hmm, yeah, I have to say that too. Like with the capability things. Like give somebody a piano and you know it could be, it could sit there and gather dust and do nothing, or you could, with the very minimal effort, learn to plink out twinkle, twinkle little star, or with more, you could create amazing symphonies. Uh, you know from from that concertos, you know the whole, uh, the whole thing is, is there, but it's just, but it's 100% depends on the individual. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was saying I was talking to someone and they say where do you think AI is going? And I said from my standpoint. It's not really where AI is going. It's the question where am I going? Dean: Yeah. Dan: And the only part of AI that I'm interested in is that which will be useful to me over the next 90 days, you know, and everything. And what I would say is that I think that every 90 days going forward, I'm going to be utilizing AI more but I don't have to know now what it's going to be two quarters from now, right. Dean: Yeah, because, honestly, you know, 10 quarters quarters ago, we didn't even know it existed. Dan: that's the truth, right as far as uh being useful individually, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like we didn't even get uh, we didn't even get chat gT till two years just over two years ago, november 30th 2023, right or 2022, right, yeah, and so that's what I'm saying. Dean: 10 quarters ago, it wasn't even on our radar. Dan: Yeah. Dean: And 10 quarters from now. Dan: You have no comprehension. We won't even recognize it. Dean: We won't even recognize it Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like this idea. I think it has more to do. Dan: I think it has more to do with what's happening to your intelligence, rather than what kind of artificial intelligence is available, developing your intelligence. Yeah, I've read. Dean: Have you heard? So Richard Koch just wrote a new book called 80-20 Daily. I don't know who he is. Kosh is the guy who wrote the 80, 20 uh book. He kind of popularized uh, pareto, um, and so now he's written a daily reader about 80-20. He's built his whole life around this. But it was interesting. I read about something called the Von Manstein Matrix or Van Manstein Matrix and it was a. It's four quadrants with two poles. You know. There's uh to help sort officers in the german uh, second second world war, and the uh on one pole was lazy and hardworking, was the other end of the pole, and on the other, the X axis was stupid and intelligent. So the four quadrants you know, formed as I can predict the outcome for this. Yes, and so he says that those stars are lazy and intelligent. Lazy and intelligent. That's exactly right and I thought, man, that is something. So the most effective people are intelligent and lazy. Dan: Yeah, so how did that work out for the Germans? Dean: Yeah, exactly Right on. That's exactly right. Aside from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? Dan: Mrs Lincoln yeah. Dean: Yeah it didn't quite work out, but I thought you know that's. It's very funny that that's the in general. That's where I think that there's a lot of similarities here. Lazy, like nobody would ever think, dan, like you've done, to ask the question. Is there any way for me to get this result without doing anything? Yeah, like that's not the question, that it would be sort of uh, I don't know what the right word is, but it's kind of like nobody would admit to asking that question, you know. But I think that that's actually it's. It's kind of like nobody would admit to asking that question, you know. But I think that that's actually it's the most intelligent question we could ask. Can I get that? Dan: Well, you know, I haven't found I have to tell you as much as I've asked the question I haven't found. I really have never personally come across a situation yet where it can be achieved without my doing anything. Okay, honestly, I haven't. I at least have to communicate to somebody. That's what I found. I have to communicate something to somebody, but asking the question is very useful because it gets your mind really simple. You know, I think that's the reason, and whereas before what I might have been imagining is something that's going to be really, really complicated. And so I think the question really saves me from getting complicated. Yes, I think that's what's valuable about it. But I notice, when I'm writing, for example, I'll say to myself I'm sort of stuck. You know, I don't really suffer from writer's block as most people would describe it. But I'll get to the point where I don't know what the next sentence is and I'll say is there any way I can solve this without doing anything? And immediately the next sentence will come to me. Dean: Yeah, that's interesting in itself, isn't it? I mean when you reach that point right. Dan: Yeah, so I feel I'm blocked. You know, I'm just blocked, I just don't know where to go from here. But just asking the question, something happens in my brain which eliminates all other possibilities except one, and that's the next sentence. and then then I'm off and off and running and uh, I tell you, I've created a new tool and it and it's a function of previous tools and it came up with a podcast with Joe Polish last week or this week, earlier this week, and he was saying how do you handle overwhelm? He said I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed right now. I've got so many things going. Dean: Office remodel yeah. Dan: Yeah, that's one, and then you know others and I said you know what I'm thinking about. That is, you have a lot of priorities that are all competing for your complete attention. You have the office revamp is one, and it's asking for your complete attention. You have the office revamp is one and it's asking for your complete attention. But then there's other things in your life that are also asking for your complete attention. I find that too, yeah. So I said I think to deal with this, you have to write down what all your priorities are. You just have to list all the priorities that in some way each of these. if they could, they would want your complete attention. And then you take them three at a time and the triple play, and you run them through the triple play so that by the third level of the triple play your competitors have turned into collaborators. And that releases the sense of overwhelm. At least with these three you now have released the overwhelmed feeling. And I said and you know, then you can take three more, and then you can take three more, and then you can take three more, and every time you do a triple play you're turning competition into collaboration. And so he was going to do one. And then I had somebody else that I did a Zoom call with and he's in a situation where everything's changing. And I said what you have to do is you have to take your competing priorities and turn them into collaborative priorities, and I think there's some real power to this. Dean: Yeah. Dan: I haven't completely worked it out yet, but that's what I'm working on this week. Dean: So the general idea I could do this as well is to take and just list all the competing priorities that I seem to have right now and put a time frame on it, like the next 90 days. Yes, I often find, when I get over one like that, I'll make a list and I'll say have I had this idea for at least 90 days and is this still going to be a good idea in 90 days? Is one of the comparisons that I have right. Is it something that is fleeting and only right now, or is this something persistent and and durable, um, and that that helps a lot? Which one can I have the biggest impact in the next 90 days? Yeah, and then you're saying take three of those and it doesn't matter what and doesn't matter what, doesn't matter which. Dan: Three and then just do a triple play on those and just do a triple play, and then the sense of overwhelm uh associated with all three of them uh will go away because they're competing with each other and the problem is, our brain can only focus on one thing at one time. Dean: That makes sense actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: So, for example, in the triple play, where you take two arrows, you've now taken two priorities and made them into a single priority, and that is, I'm going to take these two priorities and create a single priority out of them. You know so your brain can focus on combining them, because it's just one thing. So, anyway, I'm playing with this Because I think every brain is different and every life is different, and the problem is that you're overwhelmed because you can't give full attention to any one of the priorities. Dean: That is true. Yeah, that's where all the frustration happens. Dan: So I would say one of your priorities and this is ongoing is to enable Charlotte to become more and more useful to you. That's a really important priority, I agree, yeah. Dean: I agree. Well, there we go. Dan: Well, what have we clarified today? Dean: Well, I think I'm immediately going to do the top priority triple play of the coming AI opportunity to just focus on what can I do in the next 90 days here to just increase the effectiveness of my relationship with Charlotte. That makes the most sense. What can we do this quarter and then a layer on top of that, but don't develop a second Charlotte. Dan: Then you're in real trouble I need to have one lifetime monogamous relationship with my one, charlotte my one, true Charlotte. I think this falls somewhere in the realm of the Ten Commandments. Dean: I think that's fantastic, Dan. I love it, you know. Dan: That's what wisdom is yeah, wisdom is good forever. Dean: That's what distinguishes wisdom. Dan: Alrighty, we'll be in Arizona on Tuesday and. I can. I'll be on Canyon Ranch next Sunday and so if you're up, to you can do it at 11, but I'll do it at 8, ok actually there are only 2 hours back now, so it'll be 9 2 hours so I'll do it at nine o'clock okay, great, I'll talk to you next week, then I'll be seeing you that's right. Dean: That's right, okay, bye, bye.

Join us from Mobile World Congress 2025 in Barcelona, where the TruNews team dives into AI, human integration, and the rapid shift in global technology. Ray Kurzweil predicts Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) by 2029 and full AI-human integration by the 2030s—but what does this mean for you?Rick Wiles, Doc Burkhart, Paul Benson, Erick Rodriguez. Airdate 3/4/25Join the leading community for Conservative Christians! https://www.FaithandValues.comYou can partner with us by visiting TruNews.com, calling 1-800-576-2116, or by mail at PO Box 399 Vero Beach, FL 32961.Get high-quality emergency preparedness food today from American Reserves!https://www.AmericanReserves.com             It's the Final Day! The day Jesus Christ bursts into our dimension of time, space, and matter. Now available in eBook and audio formats! Order Final Day from Amazon today!https://www.amazon.com/Final-Day-Characteristics-Second-Coming/dp/0578260816/Apple users, you can download the audio version on Apple Books!https://books.apple.com/us/audiobook/final-day-10-characteristics-of-the-second-coming/id1687129858Purchase the 4-part DVD set or start streaming Sacrificing Liberty today.https://www.sacrificingliberty.com/watchThe Fauci Elf is a hilarious gift guaranteed to make your friends laugh! Order yours today!https://tru.news/faucielf

In an age of overwhelmingly dumb AI that is constantly shoved in our faces, it's nice to remember a time when we still thought AI and robotics had a chance to make our lives better. In 1999, author and futurist Ray Kurzweil wrote a book called "The Age of Spiritual Machines", in which he predicts AI reaching a point where it has it's own consciousness. In this future, AI will have already cured disease and improved the human condition, but as it grows in sentience and gains rights, humanity (as we know it) slowly becomes obsolete. This isn't portrayed as a bad thing as much as just a new step in evolution with artificial life gaining spirituality... But after reading Kurzweil's book, Our Lady Peace took issue with a few things. In their 2000 album, "Spiritual Machines", they take on the complicated nature of humanity, exploring experiences that are uniquely human, such as having an out of body experience, or gaining wisdom out of negative life experiences. There's a lot of great thoughts in the album and they don't sound half bad to boot!Aaaaand for today's guest for this Canadian alt rock group is a Canadian (in her own right), Danielle MacQuarrie!!! And don't worry Wisconsinites, we proposed the idea of seceding to Canada and Danielle is going to bring it up with The Prime Minister! I bribed them with Spotted Cow...Links:Danielle MacQuarrie's website: https://daniellemacquarrie.com/Full Livestream of the episode: https://youtube.com/live/Mi5WnElKOh0?feature=shareOUR DISCORD: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://discord.gg/2stA2P7pTC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/flyoverstatepark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EVERYTHING ELSE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/FlyoverStatePark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Some of the most powerful people on earth believe that one day they'll be able to "upgrade" at least some human beings through genetic engineering and technological schemes such as brain implants. They're so confident in their schemes they're touting benefits as wild as eternal life and the ability to evolve into gods. Returning to bring listeners details on this issue, Crosstalk welcomed Alex Newman. Alex is an award-winning international freelance journalist, author, researcher, educator and consultant. He is senior editor for The New American, co-author of Crimes of the Educators and author of Deep State: The Invisible Government Behind the Scenes. He's also founder of Liberty Sentinel.Alex pulled no punches in his opening comments. He described this as a diabolical agenda. This doesn't mean that everyone involved is evil or even understand the implications. However, if you listen to the leaders of this movement, people like Ray Kurzweil, Yuval Noah Harari and Klaus Schwab, they explain how they feel they'll become gods and will achieve immortality without Christ by merging with technology through things like brain implants, genetic engineering or uploading of their minds with computers systems. Christians realize how blasphemous this is and how it's the oldest lie in history if you go back to Genesis 3 where Satan told Eve she could be like God and that she would not surely die. Klaus Schwab, the head of the World Economic Forum, has touted what he calls "The Fourth Industrial Revolution." Alex noted that Schwab first mentioned this in Foreign Affairs magazine published by the Council on Foreign Relations. It comes down to two simple choices.

The new political propaganda machine did not just appear overnight. It's been a long road built in a relatively short period of time, and we are speeding down it now. If you just merged onto this freeway be warned, nothing is as advertised on the billboards. Topics include: no Uncle show this week, 2009 Singularity Summit, Peter Thiel, Ray Kurzweil, NYC, MIRI, Google, Macroeconomics and Singularity, Libertarian politics, government contracts, intelligence, Palantir, PayPal Mafia, billionaires, limited government, consolidation of fringe and mainstream, alternative media, ideological shifts, political technology, social media, big data, surveillance, Big Tech, crazy wins elections, data as a commodity, analytics, Information Age, political campaigns as potential data purchasers, world of contradictions, technocracy, Trump and Musk, crypto, claims to be disclosing hidden secrets, chainsaw at CPAC, transhumanism, zero charisma spokesmen, Joe Rogan, podcasts, comedy, fake underground, Gravitron ride, online media is the new establishment, cult of personality, X, AI, Culture Wars as a distraction, executive orders made to placate the electorate, propaganda, Thiel Fellowship, powers that be now on public display, talking points, acting like automatons, Russian disinformation, confluence of interests, Hulk Hogan, Idiocracy, dumbing down of America, Ochelli Radio Network, performance art, stand up comedy, branding, There is an Us and Them however you've gotten the identities of both wrong

Some of the most powerful people on earth believe that one day they'll be able to "upgrade" at least some human beings through genetic engineering and technological schemes such as brain implants. They're so confident in their schemes they're touting benefits as wild as eternal life and the ability to evolve into gods. Returning to bring listeners details on this issue, Crosstalk welcomed Alex Newman. Alex is an award-winning international freelance journalist, author, researcher, educator and consultant. He is senior editor for The New American, co-author of Crimes of the Educators and author of Deep State: The Invisible Government Behind the Scenes. He's also founder of Liberty Sentinel.Alex pulled no punches in his opening comments. He described this as a diabolical agenda. This doesn't mean that everyone involved is evil or even understand the implications. However, if you listen to the leaders of this movement, people like Ray Kurzweil, Yuval Noah Harari and Klaus Schwab, they explain how they feel they'll become gods and will achieve immortality without Christ by merging with technology through things like brain implants, genetic engineering or uploading of their minds with computers systems. Christians realize how blasphemous this is and how it's the oldest lie in history if you go back to Genesis 3 where Satan told Eve she could be like God and that she would not surely die. Klaus Schwab, the head of the World Economic Forum, has touted what he calls "The Fourth Industrial Revolution." Alex noted that Schwab first mentioned this in Foreign Affairs magazine published by the Council on Foreign Relations. It comes down to two simple choices.

The Age of Transitions 2-21-2025AoT# 451It's a long road built in a relatively short period of time, and we are speeding down it now. If you just merged onto this freeway be warned, nothing is as advertised on the billboards. Topics include: no Uncle show this week, 2009 Singularity Summit, Peter Thiel, Ray Kurzweil, NYC, MIRI, Google, Macroeconomics and Singularity, Libertarian politics, government contracts, intelligence, Palantir, PayPal Mafia, billionaires, limited government, consolidation of fringe and mainstream, alternative media, ideological shifts, political technology, social media, big data, surveillance, Big Tech, crazy wins elections, data as a commodity, analytics, Information Age, political campaigns as potential data purchasers, world of contradictions, technocracy, Trump and Musk, crypto, claims to be disclosing hidden secrets, chainsaw at CPAC, transhumanism, zero charisma spokesmen, Joe Rogan, podcasts, comedy, fake underground, Gravitron ride, online media is the new establishment, cult of personality, X, AI, Culture Wars as a distraction, executive orders made to placate the electorate, propaganda, Thiel Fellowship, powers that be now on public display, talking points, acting like automatons, Russian disinformation, confluence of interests, Hulk Hogan, Idiocracy, dumbing down of America, Ochelli Radio Network, performance art, stand up comedy, branding, There is an Us and Them however you've gotten the identities of both wrongFRANZ MAIN HUB:https://theageoftransitions.com/PATREONhttps://www.patreon.com/aaronfranzUNCLEhttps://unclethepodcast.com/ORhttps://theageoftransitions.com/category/uncle-the-podcast/FRANZ and UNCLE Merchhttps://theageoftransitions.com/category/support-the-podcasts/KEEP OCHELLI GOING. You are the EFFECT if you support OCHELLI https://ochelli.com/donate/The Age of Transitions 2-21-2025

I met Daniel Andrews through someone who has been monitoring Unstoppable Mindset and who told me that Daniel would be an interesting guest. How true it was. Daniel is a South Carolina guy born and bred. He makes his home in Columbia South Carolina. While in college he took a summer job with Cutco Cutlery after his sophomore year. I guess he liked the position because he stayed with Cutco for 15 years in sales positions.   While at Cutco his mentors introduced him to the concept of personal development. As you will see, he is widely read on the subject and he also learned to put his book learning to good use.   In 2013 he made the move to becoming his own boss and developed a true entrepreneurial spirit that still drives him today. He helps clients grow their businesses by seeking real quality contacts. He tells us that his goal is to introduce clients to 72 or 120 clients per year. As Daniel points out, a network of thousands of people is not nearly as effective as a smaller network of persons with whom you develop real credible relationships.   Daniel offers many wonderful and relevant tips on relationship and network building that I believe you will find useful. And, if you want more, Daniel provides his phone number at the end of this episode so you can reach out to him.       About the Guest:   Daniel grew up in Columbia, South Carolina after his dad moved from active duty USAF to reservice duty, in 1976. He attended college in Atlanta Georgia, where he took a summer job with Cutco Cutlery after his sophomore year, in 1988. His mentors, Ray Arrona, Ken Schmidt (RIP), Earl Small, and Don Freda introduced him to the concept of personal development, and his early career (the “summer job” lasted 15 years) was influenced by the writings of Zig Ziglar, Og Mandino, and Dale Carnegie.   He moved to St. Louis, Missouri in 2003 with his first wife, and switched careers. In his second career, a mix of B2B and B2C, he was influenced by  the writings of John Addison, Harland Stonecipher, and Jeff Olsen, encouraged by his mentor Frank Aucoin.   After his move to Houston, Texas, in 2013, he decided to become a true entrepreneur, and not just an independent contractor. The E-Myth Revisited, by Michael Gerber, Quench Your Own Thirst, by Jim Koch, and Profit First by  Mike Michalowicz were instrumental in making this jump, and he's currently engrossed in Super Connector by Scott Gerber and Give & Take by Adam Grant, as he builds a business based around showing people how to identify, find, meet, and grow relationships with a handful of key referral partners, to make sure there is a steady pipeline of 72-120 warm introductions to ideal client prospects every year.   He's been married to Adina Maynard since July 5th, 2019, after he returned to his hometown in the fall of 2016.     Ways to connect with Daniel:   Other handles: DanielPAndrews@outlook.com Pinterest link: https://www.pinterest.com/danielpandrews/   Daniel Andrews' personal FB link: https://facebook.com/danthemanwiththeplan1967   Daniel Andrews LinkedIn URL: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niasoutheast/   FB link - business page https://facebook.com/danandrewsnia   My video platform https://events.revnt.io/cutting-edge-business-coaching-llc   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.     Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well and hello everyone. This is Michael Hingson, your host for unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're with us today, and really glad to have the opportunity once again to be with you and talk about all sorts of different sorts different kinds of things, as we do every week. That's why we call it an unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, because unexpected is much more fun. Keeps us all on our toes. Our guest today is Daniel, and would like to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and we really appreciate you being here. Yeah,   Daniel Andrews ** 01:58 it's good to be here. Happy to participate. And really, I'm honored by the fact that you invited me to be here. So thank you for that. Well, we   Michael Hingson ** 02:05 made it. It's It's been fun, and we, we got introduced through Noah, who, I guess, does publicity for you.   Daniel Andrews ** 02:19 He and I have talked about that at some point. I'm trying to remember the entire chain that got me to you. You know, the person introduced me to him, to her, to him, to her, to him, to her, to you, right? I need a family tree of an introductory tree on my wall over here. I just keep up with all the connections. Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 Keeps you alert and keeps you alert, you know, yeah, for sure. Well, I really am glad that you're here. And Daniel has a, I think, a great story to tell. He lives in Columbia, South Carolina, which he's really mostly called home, although he was born elsewhere, but sort of since roughly a fair, well, a fairly short time, he moved to Columbia and has been there. So I won't go into all those details. We don't need to worry about him, unless he wants to tell them, but Columbia has been home most all of his life. He did live a little ways, a little while away from Columbia, and on that, I'm sure we're going to talk about, but nevertheless, Columbia is home. I've been to Columbia and enjoy it, and I miss South Carolina sausage biscuits. So I don't know what to say, but nevertheless, one of these days, I'm sure I'll get back down there, and the people I know will make some more. But meanwhile, meanwhile, here we are. So why don't you start by telling us a little bit about kind of the early Daniel, growing up and, you know, all that, just to give people little flavor for you, sure,   Daniel Andrews ** 03:46 older brother two years older than me, exactly. I mean, within a couple days of two years, we're the only two no other siblings. Dad was an Air Force fighter pilot, and people think that must be pretty cool, and at some level, it is. But to help frame it better and give you a better detail of the experience of being the son of a fighter pilot, I encourage people that I talk to to remember the movie Top Gun. Not the second one where everybody was a good guy, they were older and more mature and, you know, but in the first one where there was the good guy that was a jerk and the bad guy that was a jerk, but they were, they were both jerks. And you know, it's a weird environment to grow up in when the biggest compliment one man can pay another is you don't suck that bad, right? That's literally the biggest compliment they're allowed to pay each other. So I grew up always thinking like I was coming up short, which has got some positive and some negative attributes. My clients love it because I tend to over deliver for what I charge them, but it kills my coach because he thinks I'm not I'm not fairly pricing myself in the marketplace, but I it made me want to be an entrepreneur, because the benchmarks are clear, right? You? In a sales environment, you know whether you're ahead or behind. You know what you got to do to catch the number one guy or gal if you're trying to beat the competition, you know how big your paycheck is going to be if you're working on, you know, commission or base, plus commission and and I really enjoyed the environment of being, I don't want to say competitive, but knowing that, you know, I was competing with myself. So many of my friends are employed by academia or small companies or big corporations, and even when they benchmark really good results, the pay, the compensation, the time off, the rewards, the advancements aren't necessarily there. So I really like the idea of having a very specific set of objectives. If I do this, then that happens. If I work this hard, I get this much money. If I achieve these results, I get, you know, moved up into into more authority and more responsibility, and that really made a world of difference for me, so that that has a lot to do with it. And as a result of that, I've opted for the self employment   Michael Hingson ** 05:54 certainly gives you lots of life experiences, doesn't it?   Daniel Andrews ** 05:58 It does. And I think, I think that people that work for other people is certainly learn, learn a lot as well. Meaning, I've not had to have extended co worker relationships or manage those over time. My first wife was fond of saying that Daniel's good in small doses, right?   Michael Hingson ** 06:15 So here we are, Ayan, so you're, you're telling us a little bit about you and growing up,   Daniel Andrews ** 06:22 sure it just you know, father is fighter pilot, right? And always pushing me to do more, be more. And that led me to choose a route of self employment, usually as a in the early parts of my career, independent contractor for other people. So I still had a structure to work in, but I knew what my objectives were. I knew how much money I would earn if I produced X result. I knew what it meant to get more responsibility, and that worked well for me. And then about eight years ago now, I decided to become a full fledged entrepreneur and really do my own thing and create some fun stuff. And it's been a fun ride in that regard, but I do love the freedom that comes from setting my own objectives on a daily basis. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:07 there's a lot to be said for that, and then not everyone can do that, because it does take a lot of discipline to be an entrepreneur, to do the things that you need to do, and know that you need to be structured to do the things that that have to be done at the same time. You do need to be able to take time off when that becomes relevant. But still, it does take a lot of discipline to be an entrepreneur and make it work successfully,   Daniel Andrews ** 07:35 right? And I don't know that I've mastered the discipline for it, but at least I'm working on my objectives and not somebody else's. The only person I'm letting down is me. You know, when I, when I, when I miss a deadline or don't execute, so that feels better to me than having the weight of somebody else's expectations on me   Michael Hingson ** 07:52 counts for something, doesn't it? I think so well. So you, you grew up in Columbia, but then you went off to college. Where'd you go to college?   Daniel Andrews ** 08:02 Down in Atlanta, Georgia, small school there. But I had a choice of three places, and each of them had offered me scholarship funds that equaled the same cost to me. IE, the packages were different, but the net cost to me in each case was going to be about the same. So rather than pick based on the financial aid or the scholarships are being offered, I picked on which city it was in. And I figured being a college kid in Atlanta, Georgia was a good move. And it turned out it was a good move. There was lots to see and do in Atlanta, Georgia, only about four hours from home. And it just it worked out to be pretty good that my other choices were Athens, Georgia, which is strictly a college town. And you know, when the summer rolls around, the place is empty. It goes down, and the other was a school and Farmville, Virginia, excuse me, the closest town is Farmville, Virginia, where the 711 closed at six. And I'm not exaggerating when I say that, yeah, not too sure. I want to be that far out in the sticks right as a 19 year old away from home for the first time, I wanted. I wanted. I wanted to have something to do with my freedom, meaning, if I was free to do what I wanted to do, I wanted to have something to do with that so and not not sit around Farmville, Virginia, wonder what was going to happen next. Yeah. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 09:19 so what did you major in in college?   Daniel Andrews ** 09:23 That question always comes up, and I'm always hesitant to answer that, because people think it has something to do with what I do today, and it does not in any way shape or stretch. I got a BS in psychology, which I tell people was heavy on the BS and light on the psychology, but at   Michael Hingson ** 09:38 the same time. And so my master's degree is in physics, although I ended up not going into physics, although I did a little bit of science work. But do you would you say, though, that even though you got a BS in psychology and you went off and you're clearly doing other things, did you learn stuff, or did that degree benefit you? And do you still. I have skills and things that you learned from that that you use today. I   Daniel Andrews ** 10:04 used to tell people that I had three facts that I used in college, that I learned in college, that I used on a daily basis, and for the longest time, I could recite all three. But nobody asked me what they were for the longest time, and I'm sure I still use all three of them, but I can only recall one, so the answer is, for the most part, no. But I think I went to college for a piece of paper. Someone else was paying for it. In this case, the school, not my parents. It was a scholarship, and I went to school not to learn anything. I went to school to get a piece of paper. I started off as a physics major, by the way, and when I got to the semester where they were trying to teach me that light is both a particle and a wave, I'm like, Yeah, we're going to need a different major, because I did not get my head around that at all. And and the degree that was had the least hurdles to get to switch majors and finish at that moment in time with psychology. So that's the route I took. I was just there for the piece of paper.   Michael Hingson ** 11:05 Physics wasn't what you wanted to do, huh?   Daniel Andrews ** 11:08 I did. But if the textbook had said light has attributes of both a particle and a wave, I might have been able to grasp it a little bit quicker. But it said light is both a particle and a wave, and it was the week of finals, and I was struggling with the intro in chapter one for the textbook, and I'm like, yep, might be time for different major at this point,   Michael Hingson ** 11:29 my master, my master's is in physics, and you mentioned and I enjoyed it, and I and I still have memories and concepts that I learned, that I use today, probably the biggest one is paying attention to detail and physics. It isn't enough to get the numeric right answer, you got to make the units work as well, which is more of a detail issue than just getting the numbers, because you can use a calculator and get numbers, but that doesn't get you the units. And so I found that skill to be extremely important and valuable as I worked through physics and went through and I actually got a master's and also a secondary teaching credential, and I thought I was going to teach, but life did take different directions, and so that's okay.   Daniel Andrews ** 12:18 Well, when you frame it that way, I will say that there is something that I learned that I that I use, maybe not in my work, but in my field of vision, and that's this, you know, lab and experimental methods taught me to ask the question, how did they ask the questions? Right? What was the structure of the test, the experiment, the the data collection right? Because you can do an awful lot of things. For example, they have found that if a doctor says to a patient, we have a chance to do surgery, there's a 10% chance of success, meaning that you'll live, they get a better up to uptake than if they say there's a 90% chance that you'll die. Yeah, it's the same information, but you always have to look at the way the questions are framed. Polls are notorious for this right data collection from my days in Cutco, I read a study and I put quotes around it right? A study that said that wooden cutting boards retain less bacteria than plastic cutting boards or polypropylene polyurethane, which is clearly blatantly wrong if you're treating your cutting boards correctly. And I looked into it, and they simply wiped the surface and then waited a day and measured bacteria count? Well, if you don't put it what you can dishwasher a plastic cutting board and sterilize it, right? Why would you simply wipe the surface? In the case of the wood, the bacteria was no longer at the surface. It had sunk into the woods. So there's not as much on the surface. I'm like, oh, but it's still there. It's just down in the wood. You have to literally look at the way these tests are done. And I guess the wooden cutting board industry paid for that study, because I can't imagine anybody else that would would a care and B make the argument that a wooden cutting board was better than a plastic one for sanitation reasons,   Michael Hingson ** 14:13 because it's clearly all it's all sales. And of course, that brings up the fact that you get that kind of knowledge honestly, because when you were a sophomore, you got a summer job with Cutco.   Daniel Andrews ** 14:24 I did, yeah, and I remember 3030, what is that? 36 years ago, now having to explain what Cutco was, but Cutco has been around for so long in America that most American households have at least some Cutco on them at this point. So I find most people already know and understand, but it was a direct sales job. It was not structured the way an MLM or a network marketing company has, but my job is to literally take, you know, a kit full of samples, right? Some some regular, normal, standard products that we would use and sell, and take them into people's homes and sit at the kitchen table and demonstrate. Right? The usefulness. Go over the guarantee, go over the pricing options, and you know what choices they could pick stuff out, and it turned out to be a lot of fun. Turned out to be more lucrative than most people imagine. I don't want to brag too much about how much reps make doing that, because then customers get upset we're being overpaid, but yeah, that's not true either. But it was a blast to to do that and the learning environment, right? What I learned about setting my own goals, discipline, awareness of the way communication landed on other people. I don't the psychology of communication, being around people, helping them understand what I knew to be true, finding ways to address concerns, issues, objections, without making them feel wrong or awkward. You know, it was a good environment, and that's why I stayed for 15 years. For   Michael Hingson ** 15:52 me, after college, I went to work with an organization that had developed a relationship with Dr Ray Kurzweil, the futurist and who now talks a lot about the singularity. And at that time, he had developed a machine that would read print out loud. Well, it would read print, and he chose, for the first application of that machine to be a machine that would read print out loud so that blind people could read print in books, because his technology didn't care about what type styles or print fonts were on the page anyway. After the job was over, I went to work for Ray, and after about eight or nine months, I was confronted with a situation where I was called into the office of the VP of Marketing, who said, your work is great. We love what you do, but you're not doing anything that produces revenue for us, because I was doing Human Factors work helping to enhance the machine, and so we're going to have to lay you off, he said. And I said, lay me off. And he said, again, your work is great, but we don't have enough revenue producers. We're, like a lot of startup engineering companies, we've hired way too many non revenue producers. So we got to let people go, and that includes you, unless you'll go into sales. And not only go into sales, but not selling the reading machine for the blind, but there's a commercial version that had just come out. So I ended up doing that, and took a Dale Carnegie sales course, a 10 week course, which I enjoyed very much. Learned a lot, and have been selling professionally ever since, of course, my story of being in the World Trade Center and escaping on September 11 after that, I still continue to sell. What I tell people is I love to view my life as now selling life and philosophy. Rather than selling computer hardware and managing a hardware team, it really is about selling life and philosophy and getting people to understand. You can learn to control fear. You can learn to function in environments that you don't expect, and you can go out of your comfort zone. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know. So that's it's been a lot of fun for the last 23 years to do that.   Daniel Andrews ** 18:00 Okay? Now you got me curious. What's the commercial application of a machine that will take a printed book and read it out loud? What I can clearly see why people with various and sundry?   Michael Hingson ** 18:12 Well, for people who are blind and low vision, well, so let's, let's deal with it. The commercial application for that particular machine is that people will buy it and use it. Of course, today it's an app on a smartphone, so it's a whole lot different than it was as a $50,000 machine back in 1978 1979 but the idea behind the machine was that libraries or agencies or organizations could purchase them, have them centrally located, so people who never could read print out loud before could actually go get a book, put it on the machine and read it.   Daniel Andrews ** 18:46 Okay? So this would make sense libraries and institutions of public knowledge, okay. But then, as I could see, where someone would want one in their home if they had need of it. But I was just curious about the commercial application well.   Michael Hingson ** 18:57 But then over time, as the technology advanced. As more were produced, the price went down. And it went from $50,000 down to $20,000 and you started to see some in people's homes. And then, of course, it got less and less and less and eventually, before it became almost a free app on a smartphone today, it used the Symbian operating system and Nokia phones, and the the technology, in total, was about $1,800 and then, of course, it became an app on a smartphone, and a lot of OCR today is free, but the other side of it was the machine I sold was a version that banks would use, lawyers would use, other people would use to be able to take printed documents and get them into computer readable form, because people saw pretty early on that was an important thing to be able to do so they could peruse databases and so on and so the bottom line is that it was very relevant to do. Yeah, and so there was commercial value, but now OCR has gotten to be such a regular mainstay of society. You know, we think of it differently than we did then, very   Daniel Andrews ** 20:10 much. But yeah, we still have one that can read my handwriting   Michael Hingson ** 20:15 that is coming. You know, they're my handwriting. I wanted to be a doctor, and I passed the handwriting course, but that's as far as I got. But, and as I love to tell people, the problem was I didn't have any patients, but, you know, oh boy. But the the bottom line is that there were applications for it, and and it worked, and it was great technology. So it taught me a lot to be able to be involved in taking the Dale Carnegie sales course, and I know he's one of the people that influenced you in various ways. Very much, very important to recognize for me that good sales people are really teachers and advisors and counselors. Absolutely you can. You can probably talk people into buying stuff, which may or may not be a good thing to do, but if we've really got something that they need, they'll figure it out and they'll want to buy   Daniel Andrews ** 21:11 it. Yeah, the way it was summarized to me, and this particularly relates around, you know, the Cutco product or another tangible you know, selling is just a transference of enthusiasm, meaning, if they knew and understood it the way I did, it would make perfect sense. So the question was, how do I find a way to convey my enthusiasm for what I knew about the product? And as simple, I don't wanna say simple, it sounds condescending in as few words as possible, in ways that made it easy for them to digest, right? Because some people are, are tactile, and they want to hold it, look at it. Others are, you know, knowledge oriented. They want to read the testimonials and a guarantee and, you know, things like that. So just, how do you, how do you kind of figure out who's looking for what? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 21:56 and the reality is, everybody is a little bit different in that arena. And as you said, conveying enthusiasm, you'll either be able to do it or you'll find that what you have isn't really what's going to make them enthusiastic, which can be okay too. Yep, the important thing is to know that and to use that information. And when necessary, you move on and you don't worry about it, correct? We have cut CO knives. We're we, we're happy. But anyway, I think the the issue is that we all have to grow, and we all have to learn to to do those things that we find are relevant. And if we we put our minds to it, we can be very productive people. And as you pointed out, it's all about transmitting enthusiasm, and that's the way it really ought to be.   22:54 Yeah, I think so.   Michael Hingson ** 22:55 So you talk about, well, so let's, let's go back. So you went to work for Cutco, and you did that for 15 years. What would you say the most important thing you learned as a as a salesperson, in working at Cutco really came down to,   Daniel Andrews ** 23:16 there's so many fundamental lessons in the direct sales industry, right? It's why, you know, so many people got their start with Encyclopedia Britannica or Southwestern books or Cutco knives, right? There's a, there's a, I mean, in the 90s, CentOS, the uniform people and sprint when cell phones were new and actually had to actively be sold because people had to be talked into it, yeah. You know, they ran whole recruiting ads that said, Did you used to sell knives, entry level work, starting at base, you know, salary plus commission, right? Because it was so foundational. So it's hard to say the most important thing, but I would say the ability to take control of my own schedule, and therefore my own actions, right, was a huge part of it. But then the ability to really know what, understand the people that I was working with as customers. As my time at ketco matured, and even after I left working with them full time, I still had a database of customers that wanted to deal strictly with me and the fact that they were happy to see me right? That when I was again, after I'd moved away, if I came back to town, that my customers would be like, Oh, I heard you're in town when you come to our house and have dinner, right? And just the way, I was able to move from business relationship into one where I really connected with them. And you know that many years, seeing that many customers give me some really cool stories too, which I'm not going to eat up most of this, but I've just got some fun stories of the way people responded to my pleasant persistence, follow through, follow up, knowing that I could run into any one of them anywhere at any moment in time. And not feel that I had oversold them, or I had been pushy, right, that they would be happy and what they bought. And as a matter of fact, I've only ever had one customer tell me that they bought too much Cutco. And she said that to me when I was there sharpening her Cutco and selling her more. And she said she had bought more than she needed for her kitchen. Initially, I'm selling her more for a gift, let me be clear. And I paused, and I said, Do you remember how the this is like five or six years later? I said, you remember how the conversation went? Because I use the story of that demo when I'm talking to other people and to other reps. She said, Oh yeah, no, no. She goes, I will 100% own that I chose to buy more than I needed. She goes, I was not trying to pin that on you. I was just trying to tell you that that's what I did. I said, Oh, okay, because I wanted to be clear, I remember very clearly that I offered you the small set, and you chose the big set. And she goes, that is exactly what happened. I made the choice to over buy, and that's on me, and that level of confidence of knowing I could go through time and space, that I could meet my customers here, you know, when I came back to town, or now that I moved back to town, and I don't have to flinch, right? But I'm not that I did it in a way that left them and me feeling good about the way I sold them. That's pretty it's pretty important,   Michael Hingson ** 26:15 and it is important, and it's, it's vital to do that. You know, a lot of people in sales talk all about networking and so on. You, don't you? You really do talk about what I believe is the most important part about sales, and that's relationship building, correct?   Daniel Andrews ** 26:34 I took, took my theme from The subtitle of a book called Super connector, and the subtitle is, stop networking and start building relationships that matter. And I'm, I'm comfortable using that, by the way, there's another book titled networking isn't working, and it's really hitting the same theme, which is, whatever people are calling networking is, is not really, truly building a network and relationships that make a difference. It's social selling. I call it sometimes. It's being practiced as speed prospecting, right? Or marketing by hand. There's, there's, there's a bunch of ways that I can articulate why it's not literally not networking. It's simply meeting people and treating them very one dimensionally. Will you buy my thing? Or do you know somebody That'll buy my thing right? And those are very short sighted questions that have limited value and keeps people on a treadmill of thinking they need to do more networking or meet the right people. I get this all the time, if I can just find the right people, or if I could just be in the right rooms, right at the right events, and I'm like, or you could just be the person that knows how to build the right relationships, no matter what room you're in. Now, having said that, are there some events, some rooms, some communities, that have a higher likelihood of high value? Sure, I don't want to discourage people from being intentional about where they go, but that's only probably 10 to 20% of the equation. 80 to 90% of the equation is, do you know what to do with the people that you meet when you meet them? Because anybody that's the wrong person, and I simply mean that in the context of they're not a prospect. Knows people that could be a prospect, but you can't just go, Oh, you're not going to buy my thing. Michael Hinkson, do you know, anybody that's going to buy my thing that's no good, because you're not going to put your reputation on the line and refer me somewhere, right until you have some trust in me, whatever that looks like.   Michael Hingson ** 28:30 And that's the real issue, right? It's all about trust right down the line. You know, network is meeting more people, meeting more people. That's great. I love to meet people, but I personally like to establish relationships. I like to get to know people, and have probably longer and more conversations than some of my bosses would have liked. But the result and the success of establishing the relationships can't be ignored   Daniel Andrews ** 29:05 correct. And I think that you kind of threw in a word there that I think some people will internalize, or it will reinforce some of their preconceptions. And I think it's worth addressing. And I'll just give you a quick example. Six, six weeks ago, four weeks ago, I had a conversation with somebody I was introduced to. His name happens to be Michael as well. Michael, Mike Whitmore. He was impressed with the quality of our first well, it went 45 it was scheduled for 25 and I went 45 because we really gelled. And he invited me to come to a cocktail party that was being hosted by a company he was affiliated with three hour event, and we spoke again later to make sure you know everything was in order, because it involved me flying to Salt Lake City for a cocktail party I did. He was there. We spoke briefly. We both mingled with other. People. I had breakfast with him the next day. This is yesterday that I had breakfast with him. And as we're talking, he's like, Okay, I have 80 people that need what you've got. He's, he's basically, after a few conversations, gonna refer about $400,000 for the business to me, right? And I'm like, Okay, and so what people miss is that you can build that relationship quickly if you're intentional about building the relationship. And where I see the mistake most people make. And God bless Dale Carnegie, and Dale's Carnegie sales training course, right? But that that the model, what I call the cocktail party model, or the How to Win Friends and Influence People, model of getting to know somebody you know. How about that ball team? You know? Did your sports club win? Right? How's the weather up there? Did you hear about the you know, how's your mom, right? When's the last time you were camping with the fam? All legitimate questions, but none of them moved the business conversation forward. And so the ability to build a productive business relationship faster by focusing on the mutual shared value that you have between each other and the business aspects, and including the personal as the icing on the cake is a much better way to do it, and that's why I was very particular about the fact that, you know, when I was talking about my experience with ketco, that it was over time that the personal aspects, that the friendship looking aspects, evolved On top of the business relationship, because it is way easier to mix the ingredients, to put the icing or friendship on the cake of business than it is to establish a friendship and then go, by the way, it's time for us to talk business, right? You need to our client, or you need to let me sell what I'm offering that can get become jarring to people, and it can call into question the whole reason you got to know them to start with, right? So I much prefer the other route. And just one other brief example, speaking with a woman in a in what I, you know, a first paired interview, Quick Connect, 25 minutes long, and she's like, understand, you know, relationships, it's the, you know, it's the way to do it, right? It's the long play, but it pays off over time. And you know, as long as you stay at it, and I'm like, Why do you keep saying it's the long play? Well, because relationships take time. And I'm like, You say so. And we started to run long and realized we had more value, so we booked it. Ended up being about four or five weeks later, because my calendar stays pretty full, and she's so we've been in 125 minute phone call. We start the second zoom with her, with Peggy asking me who's your target market again. And I gave her the description for a $25,000 client. And she said, I have three people that I can refer you to in that space that might might want to be clients. And then she started to try and tell me how relationships are the long play? Again, I'm like, thank you. Hold up. We spent 25 minutes together a month ago, and you started this conversation by referring $75,000 worth of revenue to me. What makes you think relationships are the long play? I think you can make them last if you want them to last, but it doesn't take a long time to build those I said I knew what I was doing with those first 25 minutes. That's why, at this stage of the game, you're looking to refer business to me. Yeah, right, yeah. And so I don't think it's a long you're not establishing a marriage relationship, right? You're not deciding who your new best friend is going to be, right? You're trying to establish a mutually beneficial business relationship and see what it takes you right with the right set of questions, it goes so much faster   Michael Hingson ** 33:49 and and that's really a key. And for me, one of the things that I learned in sales, that I really value a lot is never answer or ask close ended questions. I hate yes and no questions, because I learned a long time ago. I don't learn much if I just ask somebody. Oh, so you, you tell me you need a tape library, right? Yes, and you, you ask other questions, but you don't ask the questions like, What do you want to use it for? Why do you really need a tape library today? What? What is it that you you value or that you want to see increased in your world, or whatever the case happens to be, right? But I hate closed ended questions. I love to engage in conversations, and I have lots of stories where my sales teams. When I manage teams, at first, didn't understand that, and they asked the wrong questions. But when I would ask questions, I would get people talking. And I was I went into a room of Solomon brothers one day back in like, 2000 or so, or 2000 early 2001 and I was with. My best sales guy who understood a lot of this, but at the same time, he wanted me to come along, because they wanted to meet a sales manager, and he said, I didn't tell him you were blind, because we're going to really hit him with that. And that was fine. I understood what he what he meant, but also he knew that my style was different and that I liked to get more information. And so when we went in and I started trying to talk to the people, I turned to one guy and I said, tell me what's your name. And it took me three times to get him to say his name, and finally I had to say I heard you as I walked by. You know, I know you're there, what's your name? And then we started talking, and by the time all was said and done. I got everyone in that room talking, which is great, because they understood that I was really interested in knowing what they were all about, which is important,   Daniel Andrews ** 35:53 correct? And I mean part of it right, particularly if you're problem solving, right? If you're there with a solution, a sales environment, open ended questions, predominantly the way to go. There's always going to have to be some closed ended right? What's the budget for this? Who are the decision makers in the process? But, and I certainly think a lot of the same ones apply in decision making. Meaning, it's probably an 8020 split. 80% of the questions should be open ended. 20% you know, you know, you just need some data from the other person, right? Because, as I'm meeting people, I need to decide who to refer them to, right? I know I can think off the top of my head of three different resume coaches, right? People that help people get the resume, their cover letter and their interview skills together. And one charges, you know, four to 5000 for the effort, right, depending on the package, right? One charges between 2030 500 depending on one guy charges, you know, his Deluxe is 1200 bucks, right? And the deliverable is roughly the same. Meaning, I've never looked for a job using these people, because I've been self employed forever, but I would imagine the deliverable is probably not three times as or four times as good at 5k at 1200 Right, right? But I need to know the answer, what you charge, because the rooms I will put people in are going to differentiate, right? I actually said it to the guy that was charging 1200 I said, Where'd you get the number? And he told me. And I said, Do you realize that you're losing business because you're not charging enough, right? And he said, Yes, some prospects have told me that. And I said, I'm sorry. Plural. I said, How many? How many are going to tell you before I before you raise your rates? And I said, here's the thing, there's communities, networks that I can introduce you to at that price point, but the networks that I run in won't take you seriously if you're not quoting 5000 for the job. Yeah? And he just couldn't get his head around it. And I'm like, Okay, well, then you're stuck there until you figure out that you need to triple or quadruple your price to hang out in the rooms I hang out in to be taken seriously.   Michael Hingson ** 37:57 Yeah? And it is tough for a lot of people, by the way, with that Solomon story, by the time I was done, and we had planned on doing a PowerPoint show describing our products, which I did, but even before we did that, I knew our product wasn't going to do what they needed. But went through the presentation, and then I said, and as you can see, what we have won't work. Here's why, but here's what will work. And after it was all said and done, one of the people from near the back of the room came up and he said, we're mad at you. And I said, why? He said, Oh, your presentation was great. You You gave us an interesting presentation. We didn't get bored at all. The problem was, we forgot you were blind, and we didn't dare fall asleep, because you'd see us. And I said, well, well, the bottom line is, my dog was down here taking notes, and we would have got you anyway, but, but, you know, he was he we had a lot of fun with that. Two weeks later, we got a proposal request from them, and they said, just tell us what we're what we're going to have to pay. We got another project, and we're going to do it with you. And that was   Daniel Andrews ** 39:02 it, yeah, and because the credibility that you'd established credibility,   Michael Hingson ** 39:07 and that is a great thing,   Daniel Andrews ** 39:09 that was part of the discussion I have with some of my clients today when I hold a weekly office hours to see what comes up. And I said, it's just important to be able to refer people to resources or vendors, as it is to refer them to a prospect, right? If you don't have the solution, or if your solution isn't the best fit for them, the level of credibility you gain to go, you know what you need to do? You need to go hang out over there. Yeah, right. You need to talk to that guy or gal about what they have to offer. And the credibility goes through the roof. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 39:39 we've been talking about networking, and I think that's everything we've talked about. I think really makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that you don't build a network. It's just that networking and building a network are really two different sorts of things. What are some of the most important things that you've learned about building. That   Daniel Andrews ** 40:00 works. Sure, there's several, and some of them come as a bit of a shock to people. And I always say it's okay if it's a shock to you, because it was a shock to me. But I don't take I don't have opinions. I have positions based on data. Right? You know that from your from your days as a scientist, what you think ought to be true absolutely irrelevant in the face of what the data tells us is true. But I think one of the important things is that it's possible to give wrong. Adam Grant says in the first chapter of his book, give and take. That if you look at people's networking styles, and I'll use the common vernacular networking styles, you have givers, people that tend to give more than they, you know, receive takers, people whose objective is to always be on the plus side of the equation. And then matchers, people that practice the degree of reciprocity. And I would even argue that that reciprocity and matching is a bad mentality, just so you know. But if you look at the lifetime of success, a career is worth of success. In the top levels of success, you find more givers than takers and matchers, which makes a lot of sense. In the lowest levels of success, you find more givers than takers and matchers. They're giving wrong. They tend to polarize. They tend to either be high achieving or very low achieving, because they're giving wrong. And so I and Michael, let me use his name. We had breakfast yesterday morning after the happy hour, and I said, Mike, are you open for coaching? And he said, You know I am. He said, I didn't have you flat here in Salt Lake City, because I don't respect you. What do you got for me? I said, Josh kept thanking you yesterday for the things you've done for him in his world lately, you know, over the last several years. And he kept saying, What can I do for you? And you said, Oh, no, I just love giving. I love giving, right? You know, it's not a problem. You know, I'm in a great position. I don't need to have a lot of need of resources. And I said, and you're missing the fact that he was explicitly telling you this relationship feels uneven. I said it takes longer to kill it, but you will kill a relationship just as quickly by consistently over giving as you will by taking too much. And it's a little more subconscious, although in Josh's case, it was very conscious. He was actively trying to get Mike to tell him, what can I do for you so I don't feel like I'm powerless in this relationship. And Mike was like, Oh my gosh, I never thought of that. Said, Look, I said, I don't know how your kids are. He said, well, two of them are married. And I said, my grown daughter argues with me over who's going to buy dinner. But I get it because I used to argue with my dad, who was going to buy dinner. Yeah, dinner together, right? It feels weird for someone, even somebody, that loves you, right? And, of course, the only way I can do it with my daughter is to explain, it's her money anyway. I'm just spending her inheritance on her now, it's the only way she'll let me buy dinner every time we meet, and she still insists that she pays the debt, because over giving will get in the way of what we're trying to accomplish, right? That's fair, yeah. And so people miss that, right? I get this law of reciprocity. If I just give and give and give to the world, it'll all come back to me. No, ma'am. We have 6000 years of recorded history that says that's not   Michael Hingson ** 43:18 how it works. There's there's something to be said forgiving, but there's also receiving. And in a sense, receiving can be a gift too. So you're mentioning Michael and Josh. Josh would have loved, as you're pointing out, Michael to tell him some things that he could do for Michael, and that would have been a great gift. So the reality is, it's how people view giving, which is oftentimes such a problem. I know, for me as a public speaker, I love dealing with organizations that are willing to pay a decent wage to bring a speaker in, because they understand it, and they know they're going to get their money's worth out of it. And I've gone and spoken at some places where they say, well, we can't pay you a lot of money. We're going to have to pay just this little, tiny amount. And invariably, they're the organizations that take the most work, because they're the ones that are demanding the most, even though they're not giving nearly as much in return. And and for me, I will always tell anyone, especially when we're clearly establishing a good relationship, I'm here as your guest. I want to do whatever you need me to do, so please tell me how best I can help you, but I know I'm going to add value, and we explore that together, and it's all about communication.   Daniel Andrews ** 44:48 I think so well. And in the case, you know, just go back to the mike and Josh story real quick, right? There's, there's number one, there's a sense of fairness. And I don't like the word reciprocity or magic, right? I like the word. Mutuality, but there's a sense of fairness. Number one. Number two, it's a little bit belittling to Josh, for Mike to act like Josh doesn't have anything to offer him, right? It's a little bit condescending, or it could be, Mike doesn't mean it that way, right? No, what he means is my relationship with you, Josh is not predicated on us keeping a scoreboard on the wall and that we make sure we come out even at the end of every quarter, right? But, but. And then the third part is, you know, I said, Mike, think of how good you feel when you give. He says, I love it. It's great. That's why I said, so you're robbing Josh of the feeling of giving when you don't give him a chance to give. I said, you're telling him that your joy is more important than his joy, and he's like I never thought of over giving or not asking as robbing people of joy. I said, You need to give the gift to Josh and the people around you to feel the joy that comes from being of use, of being helpful, of having and I said, even if you have to make something up or overstate the value of a of a task that he could do for you, I said, if you literally don't need anything in your world, Mike, find some job Hunter that's looking for work. And say, Josh, as a courtesy to me, would you meet with Billy Bob and see if you can help him find work somehow give Josh the sense that he's contributing to the betterment of your world, even   Michael Hingson ** 46:26 if it may not work out that this person, Billy Bob would would get a job, but it's still you're you're helping to further the relationship between the two of you, correct, right? You're   Daniel Andrews ** 46:38 helping him feel like he's an equal in that relationship. And that's an important part of it. It really is. It's now I do an important part. I do believe we absolutely should tithe. We should give of our time. We should be at the homeless shelter on Thanksgiving. If that's what we're called to do, we should be, you know, you know, aid to the poor, you know, mentoring junior people who don't have a lot to offer us. I absolutely believe that's true. So when I say give strategically or given a sense of mutuality, but we need clear delineations on you know what we're doing, because if we give indiscriminately, then we find out that we're like the people in chapter one of Adam Grant's book that are in the lower quartile of success, even though we're quote, doing all the right things. And the best way to make you know, the example I give on that, and I'll articulate this little bit, I'm holding my hands apart and moving them closer together in stages, just because the visual will help you here too. But I tell people, right? I hold my hands apart and I say, you know, we're going to spend this much time on the planet alive, right? And this much time on the planet awake, right, and this much time on the planet at work. And then I'll pause and go, these are approximations right, because clearly they are right, and this much time on the planet dealing with other people. So if, if it's true that we only have a limited or finite resource of time to spend building a network with other people, then why wouldn't we choose people whose message is worth amplifying and who we're well positioned to amplify and vice versa? And to make that even more clear for people, if you're a real estate agent, you could find a lot of people that would refer business to you, but you could find a few people that would refer a lot   Michael Hingson ** 48:25 of business, a lot of business. Yeah,   Daniel Andrews ** 48:27 you could find a mortgage lender, a divorce attorney, a moving company, a funeral home director, a nursing home director, right? And and if you're going to spend time building relationships with people, why wouldn't you find the people who are positioned to touch more people that you need to touch, particularly if there is some mutuality, meaning, as a real estate agent, I would be just as likely to be able to help a mortgage lender, a moving company, a funeral loan director, etc, etc, etc, right? All those things can come into play. And you know, the John gates, the salary negotiation coach, right? And Amanda Val bear, the resume writing coach, anybody can refer business to Amanda, but John's going to refer a lot more business to Amanda. Anybody can refer business to John, but Amanda's going to refer a lot more business to John. And and, you know, given that we've only got a finite number of conversations we're able to hold in our lifetime, why wouldn't Amanda and John be spending time with each other rather than spending time with me, who might occasionally meet somebody who needs them, but not on a daily basis the way Amanda meets John's clients? John meets Amanda's potential clients.   Michael Hingson ** 49:32 So here's the other way to spin. May not be the right word, but I'll use it. Frame it. Frame it. So you've got somebody who you're not giving a lot of, let's say a real estate agent. You're not giving that person a lot, but you're giving Elmo Schwartz, the real estate agent down the street, a lot more referrals and so on. Then the real estate agent who you're not referring a lot of people to, comes along and says, You. You know, I know you're really working with this other guy, but you know you and I have have had some conversations, and so how come I can't take advantage of the many opportunities that you're that you're offering? And I, for me, I always rejoice when I hear somebody ask that question, because at least they're opening up and they're saying, What do I need to do? At least, that's what I assume they're asking,   Daniel Andrews ** 50:24 yes, yeah, and that's a question that I teach people to ask, under what conditions would you feel comfortable referring business to me, right? Right? And you know, they may go, well, we don't share the same last name, but all my referrals go to, you know, Billy Bob, because he's my brother in law, and Thanksgiving gets weird, right? If he realizes I've been given leads to you, right? You know, it may never happen. Now, in my case, I believe in having multiple referral partners in every industry, right? Yeah, I don't just pick one, because personality plays part of it, right? I mean, and we can go back to real estate just because you say you're a real estate agent, I'm a real estate agent. I mean, we're calling on the same market. Same market at all, right, right? You could be a buyer's agent. I could be a seller's agent. You could be calling on, you know, what's a probate and estate issues? I could be dealing with first time homebuyers and young people, right? And therefore, and a lot of times it's personality, meaning, I personally, is not even the right word approach to business, meaning, there's some people that I would send to Ann Thomason, and there's some people I would send to Kim Lawson, and there's some people I would send to Elaine Gillespie, and some people I'd send to Taco Beals, right? Because I know what each of their strengths are, and I also know what sort of person they want to work with, right? Right? That's 1/3 person would appreciate them.   Michael Hingson ** 51:42 And that's the important part that that when somebody comes along and says, How come such and such, you can answer that, and you can do it in a way that helps them understand where they can truly fit into what you're offering, and that you can find a way to make it work, and that's really important. I've always maintained the best salespeople or teachers, pure and simple, in almost everything, and preachers, but but listening preachers. So it is, it is important to, yeah, well,   Daniel Andrews ** 52:16 and I bring this up in the context because we have a Bible college here in our town. So when I was a manager for Cutco, right? We get the college kids, right? Some of these seminary students, you know, looking for summer work and right? And they're like, you know, how does sales relate to, you know, being in the ministry later, I said, man. I said, Are you kidding? You kidding? I said, it's the purest. I said, you've got the hardest sales down on the roll. You ask people to pay the price now, and the payoff is at the end of their life. That's not sales. I don't know what is. At least, when people give me money, I give them something for it within a couple of days, you know, I said, I said, You better be good at sales if you're going to be your preacher eventually. Because you the, you know, the payment, the cost comes now, and the payoff, the reward comes later. I said, Man, those are the same but teachers the same way, right? You've got to invest the kids, the kids or the student, no matter how you know and what they're learning and why it's going to be relevant down the   Michael Hingson ** 53:06 road, right? Yeah, well, you You clearly have, have accepted all of this. When did you realize that maybe you were doing it wrong and that you re evaluated what you do?   Daniel Andrews ** 53:17 That's a great story, and there was a light bulb moment for me, right? I think the kids these days call it the origin story, right? You know. And and to tell the story correctly, but I have to give labels to the other two people involved, because their names are so similar that when I tell the story, I managed to confuse myself who was who. So I was in St Louis, Missouri, which, for reasons I won't go into for this podcast, is a weird town to be involved in B to B business in. They literally would prefer to do business with somebody they went to high school with. It's just a It's strange, but true. And I can go into the background of why it's true. It just is. It's accepted by people that have sold in towns other than St Louis. It's they know that St Louis is weird. Okay, so I'm having trouble not getting the traction I want. Who's in my industry, he agrees that we're going to partner and we're going to have a revenue share. I don't believe in finder's fees, but if you're going to co create the value with me, that's a different thing altogether, right? Writing a name on a piece of paper, I'm not paying for that. But if you're going to go with me on the appointment and help me get the job done. Yeah. Okay, back to the point. So my wingman, right? My partner, I call him wingman for the version this story, local, been around forever, prospect, business owner, right? We've got a B to B offered that's going to be fairly lucrative, because he's part of a family that owns a family businesses quite, quite a large there in St Louis. And we had met with the CFO because that was the real touch point on the business. As far as the value proposition over lunch, the four of us have been there prospect wingman CFO, of the prospect of myself, and it went reasonably well. Out they wanted to follow up to make the decision, which is not, not atypical. So we're back there standing in the parking lot of the prospects business, and the prospect points at me and says, Who is this guy? And my partner says, he's my guy. And the prospect points at me and goes, but I don't know this guy, and my partner says, but I know this guy, and the prospect points me and says, Well, what happens if something happens to this guy? And my partner says, I'll find another guy. And that was the purest, simplest form of what's truly happening when you're building a network. See, my days at Cutco were predicated on some of the same things. I go to Michael's house. I asked the name of your neighbors, your best friends, your pastor, your doctor, whoever you think, and then I would call them Hey, your buddy Michael insen said you'd help me out. So I'm borrowing a little bit of credibility, but the sale was made in the product, right? I'm only asking for a moment of your time, but I expected to show up, meaning I was only borrowing someone else's credibility to get a moment of your time. But I expected to show up and let the product and my Sterling personalities, I like to think of it, shine through and make the sale. There you go. And I realized, because when the prospect pointed me and said, Who is this guy, I thought my partner would say, he's my guy. Daniel, here's your chance to rise and shine, bring it, do that song and dance that you do, right? And he didn't. He kept the focus on the real point, which was that the prospect had credibility with my partner, and my partner had credibility with me. Yeah, right. And, and, and in that moment where he refused to put the spotlight on me, my partner kept it on himself, and he said, Mr. Prospect, don't worry about him. I'm not asking you to trust him. I'm asking you to trust me. And that was the light bulb where I said, Oh, what we're building is not introductions. We're building endorsements. When I get to the prospects door. I have the all the credibility that came from Bert, who referred me right, whatever credibility my partner, Bert, had with the prospect Butch. I show up on Butch is doorstep with that credibility. And when Butch starts to question it, the prospect starts to question it, my partner goes, What do you question? You're going to question him. We're not talking about him. We're talking about you and me, and we've known each other 30 years. What are you doing here? And I'm like, oh, that's why we're doing this. That's the point. I'm not asking to borrow your Rolodex. I'm asking to borrow your credibility.   Michael Hingson ** 57:38 And the other part of that question that comes to mind is, did the credibility that Bert and Butch have with each other ever get to the point where it transferred to you, at least in part? Oh, yeah,   Daniel Andrews ** 57:55 yeah, we got the sale. Yeah. I mean, that was the conversation where he's like, All right, we're going to do this. I'm like, because it was a big deal. It was a very large deal. And, yeah, but in   Michael Hingson ** 58:04 general, you know, I hear what you're saying, and in general, somewhere along the line, the prospect has to say, has to hopefully recognize this other guy really is part of the process and has value, and so I'm going to like him too, correct,   Daniel Andrews ** 58:23 and you can drop the ball. It's possible to screw it up, but I'm starting at a level 10 in the case of this particular pair of people, and it's mine to lose, as opposed to starting from zero and trying to get up to five or six or eight or whatever it takes to make the sale, and that's the biggest difference, right? It will, it will transfer to me, but then it's up to me to drop the ball and lose it, meaning, if I don't do anything stupid, it's going to stay there. And you know what was great about my partner was he didn't even not that I would have but he didn't give me any room to say anything stupid. He's like, he's like, let's not even talk. Put the spotlight on Daniel. Let's keep the spotlight on the two of us, and the fact that I've never let you down in 30 years. Why would you think this is going to be a bad introduction   Michael Hingson ** 59:09

Patrick discusses the influence of artificial intelligence on job markets, drawing insights from Ray Kurzweil's predictions. He also addresses important conversations about marriage, faith, and life decisions, while listeners share personal stories, providing valuable advice for those considering marriage with faith in mind. Patrick comments on A.I. and how it will affect the job market in the near future (0:53) Amari - What is the best way of going into marriage with a partner who doesn’t have the same religious beliefs as me? (8:37) Michelle - Does Relevant Radio discourage or not recommend 12-step programs? (19:20) Donna – My husband is not Catholic and my children fell away from Church. I wish I knew how dangerous it was to marry a non-Catholic beforehand. (23:13) Nora – In regards to getting engaged to a non-Catholic: I was in similar situation. Yes, this is difficult. I am living that. (30:32) Jessica – Regarding Amari’s call: She should consider how people don’t change. (34:43) Pita - Been married to non-Catholic guy for 45 years. Amari should cut her losses and end the engagement. (38:44) James - My wife Abigail and I have you on in the hospital while in labor right now. Waiting for our new son Leo to be born. We love the show! (42:40) Lori – There were two religions in our family and now my children don't go to Church. (44:21) Brenda - My dad is not Catholic, but mom is. I’m still a Catholic. (47:32)

Are we on the brink of merging with machines? Neil deGrasse Tyson and co-hosts Chuck Nice and Gary O'Reilly dive into the mysteries of consciousness versus intelligence, panpsychism, and AI with neuroscientist and author Anil Seth.NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here:https://startalkmedia.com/show/is-consciousness-everywhere-with-anil-seth/Thanks to our Patrons James Boothe, Vicken Serpakian, John Webb, Doctor Pants, Greg Gralenski, Lost_AI, Bob Lester, kim christensen, Micheal Gannon, Aaron Rosenberg, Shai Kr, Kyle Bullock, JyinxTV, James Myers, victor recabarren, David Pederson, Ted McSheehy, Terena, Tracy Sheckells, Groovemaster24, Sheedrealmusic, David Amicucci, Brian Ridge, M Ranger, Peter Ackerman, Mars Colony AI, DonAlan, Harry Sørensen, G Anthony, Muhammad Umer, and Joshua MacDonald for supporting us this week. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Special Free Bonus Episode Of The Alchemical Tech Revolution Podcast! I am making this paid-subscriber only episode free as a preview to show you what you could be missing out on by not upgrading to a paid subscriber. I hope you find value in this offering. What can we expect from the predicted event called, "Singularity"? Reading from, "The Singularity Is Near", by Ray Kurzweil... www.alchemicaltechrevolution.com www.alchemicaltechrevolution.com/atr-health

Gail Sussman-Miller founded Inspired Choice in 2001. She took the title of Chief Obstacle Buster which describes her perfectly. Gail lived her entire life in Chicago Illinois until she and her husband moved to Sarasota Florida in 2019. While Gail grew up thinking she should be a teacher along the way she decided she did not wish to teach youngsters. She recognized that her talents were put to better use teaching and coaching adults. She makes it quite clear that she has fun and great joy working with adults. She will say that some people want to be coached and some who think coaching for them is not necessary. I would say that Gail urges people to approach the coaching experience with an open mind. She is, as you will hear, quite successful at her work. About the Guest: Gail Sussman-Miller, Chief Obstacle Buster at Inspired Choice, helps women leaders leverage, rather than squelch, feminine power and abilities they don't realize they possess, so they live their most authentic, joy-filled life. She is an expert at guiding women to deliberately choose their thoughts and beliefs to design desired experiences and results. Gail's techniques shape new perspectives that reduce stress, discomfort and procrastination which increases decisive action, inner peace and resilience amidst the uncertainty of life. The bottom line is increased freedom and more joy! Clients find Gail's perspective-shifting techniques, practical tactical action steps, and spiritually-inspired wisdom indispensable. Her rare gift, shared by 7% of leaders assessed, is she senses and sees things few people see, speaks that truth and offers actionable ways for participants to thrive and fulfill their soul's desires. The biggest demand and focus of Gail's coaching is strengthening the efficacy and collaboration in challenging conversations and relationships by combining truth, authenticity, and vulnerability. Professional background. Gail has been teaching executives and women at all levels to turn obstacles into opportunities since 2001 as a coach, facilitator, speaker, and trainer. She received her training as a professional coach at the Coaches Training Institute (CTI) in 2001. Gail is certified in the EQi-2.0 emotional intelligence assessment by MHS, a well-known publisher of psychological assessments. Prior to founding Inspired Choice, Gail delivered computer job training for visually-impaired adults and spent 13 years at Andersen Consulting (Accenture) in Marketing, Knowledge Management and Technology Coaching. After a lifetime in Chicago, Gail made Sarasota, Florida her home in 2019. www.inspiredchoice.com Ways to connect with Gail: Gail@inspiredchoice.com www.inspiredchoice.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/gailsussmanmillerr https://www.facebook.com/GailSussmanMiller/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, a pleasant hello to you. Wherever you happen to be today, you are listening to unstoppable mindset, and my name is Michael Hingson. You can call me Mike if you want. It's okay as well. I am the host of unstoppable mindset, and today we get to chat with Gail Sussman-Miller, who is are you ready? Here it comes, Chief obstacle. Buster, I love that, and she is the chief obstacle Buster at inspired choice, which is an organization that she founded. She has been a coach for, wow, 23 years. You started in 2001 I think you said, And so anyway, this will be a fun conversation. She's got lots to talk to us about, and we've been talking for the last few minutes about how to talk about some of the visual stuff to an audience that isn't necessarily going to see it. And that isn't because the people who aren't going to see it are blind. It's because they're not watching this, but listening to it on a podcast site, so you guys get to experience things the way some of the rest of us do. But anyway, Gail, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 02:32 Thanks, Michael. I'm honored to be here, and I've had fun getting to know you as we get ready for this. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 02:39 well, and it's been good to get to know you and get a chance to really chat. Let's start, if we could by maybe you telling us sort of a little bit about the early Gale, growing up and some of that stuff, always a good way to start right. That could take an hour, but I'll leave it up to you. It reminds   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 02:54 me of the movie, I think was called the jerk that Stephen Martin was in, and he starts out saying, I was born a poor, black child. Started with his anyway, so I grew   Michael Hingson ** 03:10 up. I was born, I was born modest, some people have said, but it wore off. But anyway, you were born in Chicago, and I was born in Chicago.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 03:20 Yeah, I grew up on north side, so yes, I'm a Cubs fan.   Michael Hingson ** 03:25 I was south side, and I still love the Cubs, Hopelessly Devoted   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 03:29 and lived my entire life actually in the city limits. Sometimes people say they're from Chicago to give people a reference, and they really live in the suburbs. So I loved, I would say all Yes, actually, all my residences were within two miles of Lake Michigan, and I love being near water. So grew up. I'm the the eldest of two girls, and close to my cousins, really great, close family. And then I went to college at Northern Illinois University, got a degree in teaching elementary and special ed at a time when there was a surplus of teachers, and I wasn't sure I wanted to do it as a career. And then I learned later in life that I love teaching, but actually prefer teaching adults. So it's been an interesting evolution of I would say most of my jobs were just good enough. I was one of millions who believed you live for Fridays and work is something you do to make money because you have to. And it wasn't until I was in my 40s that I found my ideal dream. Work, which is coaching and speaking and teaching, and I came home to a profession that I thought was just for me. It was perfect. It was great. And in the last five years, almost five years, we've been in Sarasota, Florida, made some permanent move and happy ever since, so   Michael Hingson ** 05:26 until you were in your 40s, were you teaching school or what were you doing? No,   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 05:30 I never became a teacher. It just wasn't. I didn't enjoy my student teaching. I did enjoy trying to parole and contain and control 2025 kids. I love children, so that was why I thought, Well, it's interesting. When I went to college, I had no strong calling for a profession, so I enrolled in teaching as the Lacher of evils, if you will. It just was like, well, compared to being a scientist, computer engineer, or you name it, this, I like kids and I like teaching, I just didn't like the combination.   Michael Hingson ** 06:15 So what did you do for jobs?   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 06:20 Oh, we'll see if I can remember, there was a period of time where I worked for an educational publisher, because I thought, Okay, I have a teaching degree. Maybe this will be interesting. It was not. I spent some time even working as a temp because I was good at computers and word processing, as it was called in the day. Yes, and it's so funny, Michael, I actually need my resume in front of me to tell you things in sequence. But the funny thing was, each thing led to something else. I think of my life as walking through a doorway and then going down a hall with lots of doorways, and then I choose another doorway, and that leads to another hall with doorways, and that's how I wound up where I am. So at one point, I think it might have been after the education publisher. There were, there were literally, I'm I'm being this is proof how meaningless some of my jobs were. But I did spend four years in Chicago at the chicago lighthouse at the time, called Chicago Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired. I think they've changed their name now, and I taught transcription skills and typing to adults who then went on to get jobs and get placed. And that was the most gratifying thing I did, and that's where I realized I much prefer teaching adults   Michael Hingson ** 08:01 you created a an interesting analogy, one that I subscribe to a lot. I think that each of us go through life making choices, and if you really sit down and think about it, you can trace your life back to and through the choices that you make. So you did a variety of things, and you discovered something with each choice and each thing that you went off and did, I can trace my life back because of the choices that I made. And I also studied teaching. I got a secondary teaching credential. And I actually thought of teaching, but then an opportunity to take a job in technology, actually working with Dr Ray Kurzweil and the National Federation of the Blind, with the development of the Kurzweil Reading Machine came along, and that led to working for Ray, and I was going to do human factors and continuing to do some of the work I did when we were all originally developing the first machine. But then after about eight months, I was confronted with a choice of either leaving the company or going into sales. And I decided, I love to tell people I lowered my standards from science and went into sales, which is not true, but I didn't lower my standards, as it turns out. But what I what I discovered, and I always liked teaching, I always liked explaining, and what I discovered was that the best salespeople are teachers. They're counselors. They really are involved in understanding what a customer's needs are, and then teaching that customer about how to get those results, hopefully with their products, I've had some situations where the product that we had wasn't the right solution, and of course, from. One standpoint that's an ethical issue to deal with. Do I say it's our product won't work, or do I still try to sell it? My belief has always been, you take the ethical choice and I are a few times where we specifically said our product won't work, but here's what will but whenever that occurred, we developed a level of trust that then led to other opportunities later on, but teaching people and really advising and counseling was something that I enjoyed, but I but I hear what you're saying about teaching adults. The question I would ask you is there are a lot of people who say that adults tend to be locked in and are much harder to teach than children. What do you think about   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 10:44 that? Oh, wow. I don't think that's ever it's funny in a way. I don't think that's ever crossed my mind.   Michael Hingson ** 10:54 It's like teaching language. You know, children learn language and additional languages.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 11:00 Yeah, I would agree there. What I mean by that is, and what I thought you were going to ask me, so maybe I'll answer it anyway, is what I liked more about working with adults, and I like being able to hold the adult accountable and responsible for their learning and for asking questions, for speaking up, all of that. It depends, I suppose, if the adult, if the person I'm working with, wants to be in the training slash coaching learning situation or not are very there was only one period of time as a contractor where I was matched with people without my meeting them or knowing them. Normally, my clients come to me and then I get to we see if we have a fit in both ways. So there were a few times where people were assigned to me and didn't necessarily want to have coaching. But what I'm a master at is helping people look at their perspectives and shift them for their greater good. So it almost always worked out that I could say or get to help them see this is going to benefit you, whether you ask for it or not. And let's figure out what it is you would most like to get out of it. Yeah? So enlisting, yeah, enlisting them, engaging them. And then I, I don't think it's ever been a challenge. In my opinion,   Michael Hingson ** 12:36 my wife was a teacher for a number of years, and she liked teaching third graders more than older kids, because she said a lot of the older kids had already developed their attitudes, whether taught by their parents or whatever, and developed habits that weren't necessarily positive. And as a result, it was harder to work with them than it was to work with third graders, because third graders were at an age where she could get them to to think and to focus, and was able to get them to look at and hopefully learn the things that she was trying to Teach, whereas older kids she felt didn't do that nearly as well. So that was an interesting observation that she had. And eventually she she left teaching because, well, here's a story. She was going to do a Valentine's Day party for her class, and she made a deal with the students. The parents were going to bring goodies and they were going to come and all that in the park. That. And the party was supposed to start at two o'clock, and she made a deal with her students, and I don't know whether it was that morning or before, but she said, we'll start the party when you all get your work done. Okay? And everybody agreed. Well, at two o'clock, kids had been goofing off and so on, so the party didn't start. The parents had to wait outside, and it was like about 20 minutes late for the party to start. The kids finally finished the stuff they were supposed to do, and one parent pitched a real hissy fit and had her well, took her to the principal's office. The principal called her in and said, what's going on? The parents are not happy with what you did that day. And Karen brought the students in, who were the children of the parents, and the parents complained that she was too hard on the students and all that. And so Karen then said, Okay, kids, what was the arrangement that we had? And they all said we were supposed to get our work done before the party could start. Why didn't we start the party on time? We didn't get stuff done and that was it. You know, the principal told the parents, go away, go away. It is accountability. And Karen. Is really always great at accountability, and I love the concept of accountability, and when you're creating teams and so on, the most basic fundamental is all about being able to hold each other accountable. And you don't do it because it's a personal thing, or you have an ax to grind, it's because the whole team agrees that those are things that everyone can do. So I agree with you, accountability is important. That's great.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 15:29 I also think that if motivation is important, so your wife used the party as a motivator, and with adults, if they really want to change their results, then this is and I don't, I don't dictate how to do it as much as help them figure out how they're going to do it,   Michael Hingson ** 15:52 absolutely, absolutely. So   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 15:56 it's fun. It's fun. I have a blast, and some people are a term coaches use is coachable. Some people are more coachable than others. And usually I can kind of assess that early on. And sometimes it's we go as far as they're willing to go. They may also not be emotionally ready to go any further   Michael Hingson ** 16:22 well. So in 2001 you discovered that you really wanted to teach adults more, and you started your organization. And so inspired, choice came to be. Tell us more about that and what it is and how it's evolved over the years.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 16:43 So I'm actually it's kind of funny. I was I got married in 2000 came back from my honeymoon to find out I'd been laid off. I spent 13 years at Anderson Consulting, which became Accenture, just as I was leaving, and I, I don't even remember, I think I had seven different jobs in 13 years. They there was a lot of shifting, and one or two I enjoyed the most because they had a lot of teaching. So I enrolled in a couple of programs. Chicagoans will recognize this name, maybe, you know it the Discovery Center was on Lincoln Avenue. We've hired that so I took a class that introduced coaching there. And I said, this is interesting. I'm actually still friends with a couple people that were in that classroom, and then I went to a two day conference held by the local Chicago chapter of the International Coach Federation. And then I was hooked, totally hooked. So after being laid off, I spent some time looking for a job, and then I asked my husband if it was okay with him if I decided to pursue this training and then career and coaching. And he said, Sure. So that's where it started, and in 1997 I'm rewinding just a little, I did a two and a half day women's personal growth weekend, and started to do the deepest personal growth work I'd done, I would say, in my life, I'd done therapy for years, but didn't find it as effective as this. Two and a half days really moved the needle. And one of the women who was staffing that weekend, I saw her at a local event for that organization, and I mentioned I was unhappy about a few things. She said, Well, I think I can help you. And I hired her. Lo and behold, she was a coach. I didn't even know it, and it was immensely helpful to me. That's how I really got familiar with coaching. And then the two day, two and a half day weekend, and then all of that. So that's when I realized it was like a career design just for me. No one else was perfect. It was my orientation. Was not telling people what to do, it was helping them empower themselves and realize their best way. So I started my business very slowly. I didn't know anything about being a business person. I had no clue I was the least bit entrepreneurial, and it evolved slowly, but in the beginning, I kind of like thinking of as a sandwich on the bottom layer. The first piece of bread was about seven years working with women who were in the. Own businesses, helping them realize and find their best marketing method. I just love thinking about marketing, and then that led me to develop a workshop of my own called How to love networking, which most people do not love. It used metaphors, taking what they love to do most in their life, like, let's say cooking or knitting or travel, and how to network the way they do that activity they love. That led to my being discovered by a senior executive organization helping people network. So they asked if I would lead their Chicago meetings, and I did for about seven and a half years. That shifted me and put me in front of senior executives who were looking for jobs, and I taught networking and help them present themselves well within the meeting. And many of them needed additional help, so I was hired into that kind of coaching. And my whole career, my whole business shifted from helping women on marketing to helping executives with their job search, which is, by the way, still marketing.   Michael Hingson ** 21:22 It is, how? How do you teach networking? What? What is that?   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 21:28 I'll answer that in a minute, but my brain needs to finish this one. Okay, okay, brain, go ahead. My brain will be busy working on it. After about seven years of teaching these executives, helping them in their job search and promoting themselves and networking, I came back to working with women, and that's what I've been doing, working with women leaders on how to be a more empowered, truthful, authentic and vulnerable leader. So that just had to bring you up to the present. So how do you teach networking? It was helping to debunk what networking is, and I like to define networking as simply connecting with like minded people for the greater good. It's all about connection. What do you have in common? How getting curious? I mean that one of the basic concerns people had was always walking into a room like a networking event, and maybe there's 10 people, there could be 40 people. How do I start a conversation? How do I describe myself? And people being very attached to the outcome, I have to meet someone who's going to be helpful to me. I worked with some people who wanted to literally walk in the room, grab the microphone and say, I'm a tech engineer. Can anyone hire me? Like, Oh my gosh, that is not going to get you there, no, but very, you know, end result oriented. So it had a lot to do with understanding human nature, how to have these conversations, how to describe themselves well and talk about the outcomes they deliver, and to be of service help others. First things you've heard before, but it was usually getting at what their obstacle was. What was their obstacle to the process,   Michael Hingson ** 23:29 makes sense, and and it and it is always a challenge. If let's take your example. I'm a tech guy who will hire me, shows in so many ways, probably what that person isn't looking at and needs to look at, and certainly could use a lot of teaching and coaching. The question is, of course, would they be interested in doing it? And that's, that's, of course, what you address and what you deal with. Some people are coachable, and some people aren't, and some people will be once they discover what being coachable is all about.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 24:15 Yeah, then a case like that, sometimes it's people that kind of urge, like, you know, I don't want to make small talk. I always say, Well, then don't make small talk. Make big talk. Ask important questions. Don't talk about the weather or how good the weenies are wrapped in the in the dough and the hors d'oeuvres. But they are impatient, perhaps because they're desperate, because they're afraid. I always wind up on the emotional undertones of what is going on. How long have you been in job search? Have you been turned down a lot what's going on? How confident are you? How well can you talk about what you do? Well. How well do you do in relationships having nothing to do with job search? What you know, are you good listener? All those things. So it's, I would say it's interesting about job search that at some level, people might not be at their best depending on how comfortable they are with the process, because it is not linear,   Michael Hingson ** 25:27 yeah, and even if you're turned down for a job, do you ask? Why? You know? Are you willing to learn? And again, some people are and some people aren't. Right, right when I talk, when I talk with people about being as when I talk with people about being a speaker and and even sometimes they say we're considering you. And then if they come back and they say we went a different direction, I will ask why. I'd love to learn a little bit more. I don't, I'm not quite that blunt. I'll say something like, I'd like to learn a little bit more about what the process was and what led you to the choice that you made. If you would please take the time to let me know. And again, it's, it's a it's a process. I haven't generally heard that. Oh, you're not a good speaker, or whatever. And I suppose some people might not want to say, but usually it's we had somebody who went a different wanted us to go a different direction, or, I mean, any number of things, or we changed our mind about the theme for the event, which has happened more than once any number of things. And so you you take every, every opportunity, and you learn what you can.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 26:50 That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. It eventually. What led me at some point, I think the pretty sure the people were under and their fear and working with that, I think that some point that may have been what helped me decide to move on and instead of and practice what I preach. Really am I coaching this target audience out of passion, and I was starting to lose my passion. And I said, you know, I've been feeling a hankering to go back to working with women, and as I did the work on myself, this is not a surprise, but I was doing a lot of work on myself. To stand in my power more to really tune into my feminine energy and to spirituality. And it was all guiding me to say, you're not following your heart and soul passion. And then that led me right back to where I started, and working with women. There you go on on deeper issues. So it's been wonderful,   Michael Hingson ** 28:09 by the way. What kind of work does your husband do?   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 28:14 Oh, well, it's really interesting. He might have lost track how many years, but he's about a 45 year stock trader, and started out on the Chicago Board of Trade floor. Then around the time I met him, he, as they call it, went upstairs, became an upstairs trader, electronic only, and now, for maybe the last eight years, nine years, he's teaching traders and investors how to read the cycles in the stock market chart analysis and some emotional issues for traders. Traders psychology. And he created a membership for people that want to get involved at a deeper level or a lighter level. And he does training videos. He does. He's actually got a live show that he does once a month, and it's all about education and analysis, some really technical but this gorgeous, beautiful charting that he that he invented, of looking at where the rhythms are. I could go on and on about this, but I think that's probably all your listeners want to hear, because it gets great, really technical. And for those who are a little geeky, if you have ever heard of the Fibonacci formula, even the market follows Fibonacci cycles. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 29:52 the reason I asked the question was you said earlier, when you decided to start your business, you asked him, and he said, Yes, and that. Immediately made me wonder, what kind of a guy is he that he was willing to be open, and clearly, he's an intelligent person. He observes a lot, and so it makes perfect sense that that he would be the kind of person who would support and agree with decisions that you could make and do make, and the fact that the two of you communicated about it is, I think, the most telling thing. It's great when a couple shares and essentially really decides together.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 30:36 Well, I can't wait to tell him what calls over. He's uh, currently relaxing by the pool after his Friday, his Friday live show. But the interesting thing, or, or, and the three, the two and a half day training I told you that I did in 97 he did the men's version, which is a little more popular. It's called a little has more notoriety. It's called new Warrior, and he did that in like three months before I met him, and that changed his life. So, communication skills, self awareness, taking responsibility, all of that, that was what drew me to him and that, and we've been growing those skills ever since, no taking responsibility if you get triggered, and not blaming the other person. Yeah, understanding a lot of emotional intelligence, a ton of emotional intelligence. In fact, we both got certified in a tool published by MHS, and it's a emotional intelligence assessment.   Michael Hingson ** 31:46 Well, you've been coaching for a while, needless to say, 23 years. What are the most common issues that women leaders ask for support on?   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 32:01 There's usually one common thread, and it's about, how do I have this conversation? I need to tell this employee they're not doing well, but I don't want to hurt their feelings. I'm not getting along well. Things are not going smoothly with one of my direct reports. I don't know how to approach that. Or there I have some clients who are in a male dominated industry and a male dominated firm, and they may be the only woman in the room. How do I dan in my power express myself and communicate where very often, male and female communications can be different. So how to how to tell, have the conversations, how to tell the truth, what they think is the truth, without worrying about hurting people's feelings or having a lot of fear come up and how how to move through the discomfort. It might be speaking up more than they're used to. It might be saying no, it might be setting some limits and being honest with some risk. So it's almost all connected, but those are usually the general themes,   Michael Hingson ** 33:29 yeah, and it's unfortunate that there have to be risks just to being able to speak up where as if it were just men in the room, probably the same issue wouldn't be there, but we're still way too patriarchal, I think, in a lot of ways, and that tends to be a problem. I love it when people are willing to speak up and be open. I think it's it's so important to do that.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 33:57 Well, I can tell you that while I was still coaching on job search, most of my clients were men, and they had plenty of fear about speaking up plenty it is really not so gender biased, especially networking or interviewing, or how am I going to answer that question, or all of this strategizing. Well, if they say this, then I'll say that. Or instead of what I have come to learn to not only do but to enjoy, is to just be be in the moment. Yeah? Like I often joke, I like being put on the spot. Yeah, I mean, you asked you, and I talked about some things we might talk about today, but I'm ready for you to ask me anything, and I think that's exciting. And if I don't know the answer, I'll say so, but, but I've learned to love honesty in that kind of Troy. And that's what I help my clients do, yeah, and I can think of, oh, sorry, let me just finish this one, thinking of this one client, he wanted to get promoted. He liked his company a lot. He was doing well, and he was going to go to this meeting where they're going to be all appears of his, and then the next level up of management, and he was making himself a little nuts preparing, like I said, if they go on this topic, I've got my notes, and if they go to this topic, I've got my notes. And I helped him to see how he could he didn't need he was over, preparing, spending a lot of time that he didn't need to. And this concept of showing up, show up, be present, answer the questions from what you know, and the words don't matter as much as the energy. It's about saying what you feel and what you believe and say that proudly. So he started doing that, and he couldn't believe the shift. And there's a there's a woman. Her name is nalima bat. I've heard her speak, and she has a meditation that helps get to the point of saying there's nothing to defend, there's nothing to promote, and there's nothing to fear. God practically just want to sigh at that, yeah, oh, that's so reassuring. And then you just show up because you're you've got the ability you know you you're ready. You're always ready.   Michael Hingson ** 36:43 We just don't always think we are, because we overthink things. You know, the biggest problem with fear is we focus so much on the what ifs and that we create our own fear, rather than, as you just said, really living in the moment and and using the knowledge that you have, trusting your your gut or your brain, and, yeah, speaking up and doing the things that you know, really that you should do. And the reality is, you do know what you should do, but we are so focused so often on what if that we've lost a lot of those skills. They're there to be redeveloped. And I wrote a book that's going to be well, it'll be out in August of 2024 it's called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking in faith. And the idea is to help people learn how to control fear. It isn't to be fearless, because fearless is a very powerful thing, but you don't need to let fear overwhelm you. You need to use it in a positive way. And one of the things that I learned and talk about in the book is that living in the moment is one of the most powerful things that we can do. That isn't to say you don't develop strategies and spend some time strategizing, but if you do it to the point where you drive yourself crazy and you don't really listen to yourself, that's a problem.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 38:21 You used a really important word there trust and we have this is a topic that I'm warning you. Michael could go pretty deep, so I'm going to try to stay at the top, because it can. It's so enmeshed, I have come to appreciate that as humans, we have to, let's call it two minds. We have our ego, fear driven mind that, from our cave days, is there to protect us. That's the the ancient reptilian part of our brain that's there to make sure that we have our fight, flight or freeze response if we see a big wooly mammoth today, our fears are very different, but we're not worried about a lion or a tiger around every corner, so we have this protective, fear driven way of thinking that you can also refer to as ego. That is the what if negative and I need to be careful. What if I don't get promoted? What if someone thinks this? What if a lot of women worry? What if I sound too outspoken? We've got all that worry side, and that's one mind. The other is love driven, and it is for many people. It is about faith. It is about beliefs that there is the. Our powers greater than us, and that it isn't what one side, the ego, human protective side, is very tied to body identification with the eyes, ears, nose and touch, all of that what we hear the other side is spirit identification, and and that there, there's magic in the world. There's mystery, yeah, and it is not 100% all up to you. People will feel your energy. There are, there's, whatever you want to call it for you, divine, the universe, spirit. There are other forces at work, and that that's where, if we can trust that it doesn't all rest on our shoulders, not all within our control, either, but we, one side is powerless. This side, to me, is where you have your power. I need to do my best, and I can show up.   Michael Hingson ** 41:00 We don't always have control over what happens, but we always have control over how we deal with what happens, and that's the part that we have to make, the choice to address. And the example I always give with that is the World Trade Center. We had no control over it, and I no one's convinced me yet that we could have figured it out, but each and every one of us moves forward from the World Trade Center, and we have the choice to make of how we deal with what happened that day. We can hate love, we can use it as a way to move forward and help others and ourselves and so many different things that we have a choice to do. Well,   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 41:45 I hope so here do, yeah, yeah, big time.   Michael Hingson ** 41:50 And I think it's the important thing that we we need to do. Let me ask you this question. You have a tool that you use to help men and women improve their results. And do you want to talk about that some?   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 42:04 Yeah, and it's all about what you were just talking about. It's all about perspective and it all and the power of our thoughts. So very typically, when I work with people, I'm sure you see this, and the people you talk to, people want to change their results. So they say, Well, if I want a better career, I want this, or I want that, I need to change my actions, my behavior. And usually that's where it stops. Is okay. Want a job, I'm going to go look for a job. I'm going to do this, do that, do these steps. I want to get promoted. I'm going to start showing up like this or that, and then it sometimes doesn't work, or they're too afraid, so they do some shortcuts, or they aren't showing up fully in their strength and their ability and their power. So what I help people realize is before you go take those changed actions to get new results, there's something that happens before the action, and that is, you look at choices options, you think about your options first, and then you choose one or two, and you do those actions before the choices, even before you look at a list of choices, there's an emotion or a feeling. If your job search is motivated by fear, then your options that you look at might be somewhat desperation driven, and then your behavior, and then the results you get. If we I'll stick with job search as the example. What triggered those emotions? Where do those come from? So even before the emotion, there's some kind of a belief, and before the belief we have thoughts, and I like to kind of put those in the same bucket, thoughts that we hold on to long enough become beliefs we can have fleeting thoughts, like I think I can fly, but then when we we look at what we believe. So there's often a trigger at the beginning of the whole process. I need a job. I've just been laid off, and the thought or belief is this is a tough market. No one's going to want to hire me. I didn't get enough to a high enough level, or my resume is not going to be impressive. That creates the emotion of fear. Fear leads to limited options, like, I'm not even ready to talk about my skills. I'll just go apply online. That's it. I'll send out like 50 resumes online. Online is never the best way to find a job, and it's usually. Maybe 20% of the best strategy. So we look online, and then the result is, that's our action. The result is, maybe we get called for one or two interviews. So now we're annoyed This isn't going well, that thought, that belief now starts a whole nother chain reaction. This isn't going well. I'm never going to find a job more anger and frustration and fear, and we make new choices, take more action, and the results may not change. So what you can do with this is interrupt the whole flow and choose a different thought, a different belief. And one possibility for this kind of a person would be, I've had a reasonably good career. I have a lot of skills, maybe if I ask for some help, I can present myself in a different way, or I'm really focusing too much on the negative, and a new belief might be if I tell my story in a more positive way, and if I can calm myself down, I know I'm hireable. I know I can do well, and that would bring a new emotion of some positivity, some maybe even a little spark of joy, some contentment. I don't know if we could go all the way to happy and we look at making different choices. Who can I ask? Who do I think describes themselves really well? Who has a lot of confidence? Maybe a good friend of mine can help me, and we look at a bunch of choices. I've heard that networking is more important than looking online, but I don't, I don't think I can network well. Who do I know that networks well, and then we take different action, like maybe talking to one of those friends, or working with a job search office or a coach, and we get different results, and that then feeds the formula again. Then we're like, okay, that worked. I'm on the right track. I got more interviews. I'm hireable, and it keeps circulating and circulating.   Michael Hingson ** 47:28 Yeah, and the example you just gave, the reality is, all too often we talk ourselves into a bad situation or a not positive situation, because we do the what ifs and we don't look at options. And I think it's so important to think about the more positive things. And the reality is, Gandhi put it very well when he said interdependence is an ought to and ought to be as much the ideal of man as a self sufficiency. And the point is, is so true that we're all part of the same world. We're all part of the same process, and the more we work together, and the Learn More we learn to work together, the better it will be. Yes,   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 48:17 and interestingly, maybe building on your What if concept, there's, there's a, there's a game I sometimes play with people, if you can picture like the chair you're sitting in is, is center center point. What if negative moves to your left every time you answer? Well, what if I don't get a job? Well, what if I go hungry? What if I'm broke? What if, and you keep moving left, left, left, further, or you can come back to center and move to the right, well, what if I get some help, and that leads to a job? And what if this, and what if this going positive, and you just notice where, where are you in the center? And the minute you go, what if, positive two or three steps, but you have a negative thought, it takes you back to the center. So it's just a way of paying attention. Am I? Am I going up with my What if, or in this case, to to the right, or am I going? What if negative they can go either way,   Michael Hingson ** 49:26 well. And the issue is, you take two or three steps to the right or movements to the right, and then a negative thought comes along again. You have the choice and the control of how you deal with that negative thought of that as a negative thought, I'm not going to let that control my life. It might be good point. Glad you brought that up negative mind, but that's not going to help me progress, and that. That's the part that I think a lot of people don't learn how to deal with very well. We're way too negative oriented in our world. It seems, sometimes seems to me,   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 50:12 Well, it's interesting, because that's the human protective ego side bringing up the fear based thought, like, Ooh, wait a minute, you're feeling a little too cocky so you could get hurt. Let me throw a monkey wrench in here. Well, what if? And then here comes the negative thought. And we really those thoughts are so powerful, they influence not just our emotions and choices and action and results, but they they influence what what we believe, and we actually vibrate that to other people. I'm sure you know our listeners and and you have walked into a room and said something with with other people, and you just feel something in the air someone's like, did you just walk in after an argument two people had or something doesn't feel right. We really do vibe off each other. And using continuing to use the job search metaphor, depending on how you come in the room to meet someone that wants to have a conversation with you, you set the tone you really we have that power. It's takes a lot of practice, though, to catch like you said, Oh, thanks, negative mind, because it is worth thinking. It is trying to protect you, and especially your very young child. All our coping mechanisms, we taught, we were taught them or developed them, and it's gotten us this far, but it may not be serving you anymore, or   Michael Hingson ** 51:54 you you haven't learned how to put a barrier or a stop to those things, and that's the the part that's missing. Can you give us an example? Tell us a story about someone who you've helped with, with the whole process and what happened?   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 52:12 Well, this is kind of fun, and this has happened a couple times. To tell you about I'm trying to decide which story to tell you, because I'm also thinking about protecting confidentiality. So maybe this is a little easier one. So I have a client who, right now is actually a month from today, is her 65th birthday, and she's thinking was came to me thinking about retiring. She She and I worked together, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, and she came back, and she was in a lot of either or thinking, so I'd like to make a decision, and may 12, be retired, but I still really love what I do. She's a musician, and I know she would enjoy my telling her story, and I still get a lot of pleasure out of it, but I don't want to work so many hours. She's used to kind of just saying yes to every gig that comes along, sure I'll play for you. Sure, sure. So part of our work was about what is your desired outcome? What do you really want? Do you want to stop working and cook and visit with people and go on trips? No, I really still like working, but I don't really trust myself to not work all the time. So we wound up shifting using a similar thought formula. Her current belief was it's either work or play. That was it. So that led to feeling overwhelmed and afraid, and that led to her making choices to postpone it, which is really a choice. She didn't take action. And the result is, well, I'm getting even closer to that 65th birthday, and I have no decision. And we shifted to the concept of what about work and play, that there were way to set ways to set limits. We came up with some criteria, all based on joy. Which gigs bring you the most joy? Oh, well, that's easy. I get to play this instrument, not that one within 25 miles of my home, for people that I really like, Okay, now we have, like, a thought filter, a choice filter for choice filter, right, right. It has to meet this criteria, this one and this one. Oh, but then I'll hurt the feelings of people I say no to we worked on that. Well. Now. I just talked to her yesterday, she said no to like, two or three gigs. Said yes to six. She's working fewer hours, and now she's exploring, what do I want to do with my time off? She's never taken much time off, and now it's just plugging in some time for my husband, some time for learning new recipes, some time for practicing my instrument, and now she trusts herself to only say yes to the gigs that bring joy. And   Michael Hingson ** 55:32 why did she say no? Why did she say no to some   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 55:38 they they were on holidays, which she's used to sacrificing holidays. And she said, Nope, I want Easter with my husband and my family. I'm saying no,   Michael Hingson ** 55:50 that's my point. Yeah, and yeah. And it was limits. It   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 55:54 was setting limits. Maybe she'd worked with them before and they didn't pay on time, or it was out of her driving limit, or something about it, there's no one else in the room with her making the decision. Something about it didn't feel right, like it's just trusting instinct, but there were some clear cut yeses and clear cut nos instead of I need to please everyone, so I have to say, yes, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:26 which is so cool.   56:28 Yes, it's so fun. Well, what's   Michael Hingson ** 56:30 the best way that people can explore working with you?   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 56:33 Well, I think that when we share this video and the audit the recording, that folks will have my email but let me give it to you now. Yes, please. My email address is Gail, G, A, I, L, at, inspired choice.com, that's I n, s, p, i, R, E, D, C, H, O, i, c, e.com, you can also call me good old telephone, 773-477-4012, still have my Chicago area code. There you go. And my website, if you want to learn more, is www, dot inspired, choice.com,   Michael Hingson ** 57:20 and through the website, and I would assume that through the website, they also can contact you. There's contact information on the site and so on.   57:28 Cool.   Michael Hingson ** 57:31 Well, this, I think, has been a lot of fun to do, and I think it's so important that people learn that they can discover better how to make choices, and that you're out there to help. And I still love chief obstacle. Buster, I think that's such a great title.   Gail Sussman-Miller ** 57:52 And Michael, I just want to add that I'm happy to always set up a zoom and meet with people and explore the possibilities and see it has to be a good fit on both sides and like, am I even someone who is coachable, or is this something that would even work for me? So that's always the first step.   Michael Hingson ** 58:16 Exploration is always a good thing. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening and watching us today. I hope that this has been informative and useful and helpful, and that you will take advantage of the services and skills that Gail has to offer and that you'll reach out to her. I want to thank you for listening, and as always, really appreciate all that you're doing with unstoppable mindset and attending our different episodes. I'd love to hear from you. You can reach me by email at Michael H i, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, or go to our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, Michael hingson is m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n.com/podcast, wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating. Really would love to get that. It really is one of the wonderful things. When people give us a rating, we hope it'll be five star. But whatever you rate us, please review and we'd love to hear your thoughts and your comments. If you know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please encourage them to reach out, or you reach out and introduce us. Love it. Gail, you as well. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest, please let us know. Thank you today. Michael, well, I want to thank you again, and we really appreciate you being here. Thanks very much for all of your time. Thanks.   **Michael Hingson ** 59:54 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

I met Michael Bervell through a mutual acquaintance some two months ago. Since then he and I have talked a few times and found that we have many interests in common.   Michael grew up near Seattle where he stayed through high school. He then went across the country to study at Harvard. He received a Bachelor's degree in Philosophy. He then returned to Seattle and began working at Microsoft where he held some pretty intense and interesting jobs he will tell us about.   At a young age and then in college Michael's entrepreneurial spirit was present and flourished. His story about all that he has done as an entrepreneur is quite impressive. Today he is back at Harvard working toward getting his Master's degree in Business.   Michael has developed a keen interest in digital accessibility and inclusion. We spend time discussing internet access, the various options for making inclusive websites and how to help educate more people about the need for complete inclusion.       About the Guest:   Michael Bervell is a Ghanaian-American angel-investor, entrepreneur, and best-selling author. He is currently the founder of TestParty, an industry-leading and cutting edge digital accessibility platform.   In 2007, Bervell co-founded “Hugs for” an international, student-run non-profit organization focused on using grassroots strategies to develop countries around the world. To date, "Hugs for" has fundraised over $500,000 of material and monetary donations; impacted over 300,000 youth around the world; and expanded operations to 6 countries (Tanzania, Ghana, United States, Uganda, Kenya, and Sierra Leone). Because of his work, Bervell was awarded the National Caring Award in 2015 (alongside Pope Francis, Dikembe Mutombo, and 7 others).   Bervell is the youngest Elected Director of the Harvard Alumni Association and was the youngest President of the Harvard Club of Seattle. He has helped to found and lead a variety of organizations including the WednesdAI Collective (a Harvard & MIT AI incubation lab), Enchiridion Corporation (a marketing consulting company), Sigma Squared (formerly the Kairos Society), and Billion Dollar Startup Ideas (a media and innovation company). He has experience working as a Chief of Staff at Databook, Venture Fellow at Harlem Capital, Portfolio Development Manager at Microsoft's Venture Fund, Program Manager at Microsoft, and Software Engineer at Twitter.   His various efforts have earned him recognition as a Samvid Scholar (2022), Warnick Fellow (2021), Jonathan Hart Prize Winner (2019), GE-Lloyd Trotter Scholar (2018), World Internet Conference Wuzhen Scholar (2017), Walter C. Klein Scholar (2017), United Health Foundation Scholar (2016), Deutsche Bank Rise Into Success Scholar (2016), Blacks at Microsoft Scholar (2016), Three Dot Dash Global Teen Leader (2015), Jackie Robinson Foundation Scholar (2015), National Achievement Scholar (2015), Coca-cola Scholar (2015), Elks Scholar (2015), AXA Achievement Community Scholar (2015), Build-a-bear Workshop Huggable Hero (2014), and more.   Ways to connect with Michael:   Personal Website: https://www.michaelbervell.com/ LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbervell/ Company Website: https://www.testparty.ai/ Company LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/company/testparty/     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello, everyone. I am Michael Hinkson, and you are listening to unstoppable mindset. Our guest today is Michael Bervell, who is a Ghanaian American angel investor. He is a published author, and he is also an entrepreneur and a scholar by any standards. And if he wants to brag about all that and all the the different kinds of accolades and awards he's gotten, he's welcome to do that. And I will just take a nap. No, I won't. I won't take a nap. I'll listen to him. I've read it all, but I'll listen to it again. Michael, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Michael Bervell ** 01:58 Thanks so much for having me. It's a great name. You have too, both the podcast and your own name, another Mike.   Michael Hingson ** 02:04 You know, I think it's a great name. People have asked me, why I say Michael, and do I prefer Michael to Mike? And as I tell people, it took a master's degree in 10 years, a master's degree in physics in 10 years, to figure this out. But I used to always say Mike Kingston on the phone, and people always said Mr. Kingston. And I couldn't figure out, why are they saying Kingston when it's Kingston, and I introduced myself as Mike Kingston. And finally, one day, it hit me in the head. They're getting the mike the K part with the Kingston, and they're calling it Kingston. If I start saying Michael hingson, will that change it? I started saying Michael hingson, and immediately everybody got it right. They said Mr. Hingson or Michael, or whatever. I don't really care, Mike or Michael is fine, but the last name is hingson, so there.   Michael Bervell ** 02:50 It's so funny. Yeah, I'm glad no one's calling you Mr. Links and or something like, yeah, yell and adding it. They   Michael Hingson ** 02:55 do. They do. Sometimes do Hingston, which isn't right, yeah, which shows you sometimes how well people listen. But you know, what   03:03 do you do? Exactly, exactly? Tell   Michael Hingson ** 03:07 us a little bit, if you would, about the early Michael bervell Growing up in and where, and all that sort of stuff. And you know, then we can get into all sorts of fun stuff, because I know you've been very interested in accessibility and disabilities and all that, we'll get to that. But tell me about you growing up. Yeah. I mean,   Michael Bervell ** 03:24 for me home, home for me was in Seattle, and I actually lived and went to school in a place that was about 30 minutes apart. So my parents would drop me off at school in the morning. I go through the day, meet all my friends, and then come back home. They would pick me up, take me back home in the evening. So I had a lot of time in the day after school, you know, school ends at two, and my parents picked up a five to do all this other stuff. So I used to always be part of every student, student club. I did every sports team, you know, I was in high school, you know, on the captain of all these, all these teams and such. And of course, I would go home and my parents picked me up. And in that in that in between time, I spent a lot of time in the library, so I probably every day in middle and high school, spent three hours a day at the library, just in that in between time, waiting for your parents, waiting for my parents. So that for me, was a lot of time that I just used to incubate projects. I taught myself how to code and took some CS classes when I was, you know, in high school at the library, I became friends with all the librarians and joined the student library advisory board when I was in eighth grade at the library, and did a bunch of other things. But I think probably the most impactful library project that I had was actually a nonprofit that my family and I started, and it was memory of my grandmother, who born in Ghana. She used to always go back there in the winter times, because, you know, it's cold in Seattle, warm in West Africa in the winter   Michael Hingson ** 04:48 as well. Yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 04:49 yeah, it was super warm there. I mean, it's always, you know, 80 plus degrees, wow. Yeah, it's lovely. And so she would always go home. And whenever she went back to Ghana. She would, you know, come into our bedroom and tip doe at night and go into the bed and take a teddy bear or take some of her old school supplies. And whenever she visited, she would give that to kids in hospitals and schools and North pages. So, you know, when she, when we, when she passed away, we ended up going back to Ghana for her funeral. And, you know, all the burial ceremonies, and there were just so many people from the community there expressing their love for her and what she had done. And we realized that, you know, while it was small for us, you know, as a six year old or sixth grade kid, her taking a teddy bear had such a big impact, and it had these ripple effects that went far beyond her, so that that was, like one of my biggest projects I did at, you know, in sixth grade and beyond. It's an organization, a nonprofit called hugs for Ghana, which we've been running for the last 15 years, 15 plus years, and now is operating in six different countries. And we do the same thing. We get teddy bears and school supplies and all these things, and pick them up and hand deliver them to kids in developing countries. But that, for me, was one of my most fundamental parts of my childhood. When you ask me, you know, was it like as a child? I can't separate my growing up from, you know, those long drives to school, that time at the library and eventually the nonprofit made in honor of my grandmother,   Michael Hingson ** 06:10 and giving back,   Michael Bervell ** 06:13 yeah, and giving back exactly how   Michael Hingson ** 06:16 I talked fairly recently on this podcast to someone who formed. Her name is Wendy Steele. She formed an organization called Impact 100 and impact 100 is really primarily an organization of women, although in Australia, there are men who are part of it. But basically what Wendy realized along the way was that, in fact, people are always looking for, what can they do? And at the same time, they don't have a lot of time. So with impact 100 she said, and the way the organization works, the only thing that she requires that anyone who joins the organization must do is donate a check for $1,000 that's it. If you don't want to do any work, that's great. If you want to be part of it and all that. It's fine. If the organization is primarily composed of volunteers. I think they have now like 73 or 77 chapters in mostly in the United States, but they're also when Australia and a couple of other countries, and they have given out in the 20 years since the organization was formed, all told, close to $148 million what they do is they take the money that comes in, and they for every $100,000 that a Chapter raises, they give a $100,000 grant to someone no administrative costs, unless those are donated on top of the $1,000 so all the money goes back to the community. I think the first grant they ever gave was to a dental clinic to help with low income people and so on. But it's a fascinating organization, as I said, it's called Impact 100 and she started it because as a child, she was very much involved in giving back, and for a while she she didn't. And then it started again when her father passed away, and she realized how many people from the community supported her and the rest of her family because they didn't have the tools or the resources to do it all alone. Yeah, so I'm not surprised that you have the story of giving back and that you continue to do that, which is really pretty cool.   Michael Bervell ** 08:36 Well, I think I actually heard a statistic that I think they tried to track how early childhood development, or just early adulthood, affected later adulthood. I think one of the findings was that people who volunteered when they were in middle and high school or significantly more likely to volunteer later in life than those who never did. And so there is a certain level of kind of you know, how you experience the world in your early ages and your early days affects your potential to want to make a change, especially as it relates to giving back or giving time or money or whatever effort, whatever it might be, I think is a really interesting concept. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 09:14 it makes sort of perfect sense, because as you're growing up and you're forming your life, if you see that you're doing things like giving back or being involved in supporting other people, and that is a very positive thing, it makes sense that you would want to continue that in some way.   Michael Bervell ** 09:33 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it reminds me also of just like habits. You know, you build your habits over time, and it starts from super young ages not to say that you can't change habits. There's a bunch of research about the science of habit change and how to break a habit loop, and Charles Duhigg is a great author in that space, but it's also just really interesting just to think through that. But yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 09:54 and habits can be hard to break, or they can be easy if you're really committed. Into doing it. But I know a lot of people say it, it's fairly challenging to change or break a habit.   Michael Bervell ** 10:06 Exactly, yeah, exactly.   Michael Hingson ** 10:09 Unfortunately, sometimes it's all too easy to make a habit. But anyway, there you go. Yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 10:14 my one of my it's, it's funny, because after you know one of my habits I made when I was in high school that, to my mom's chagrin, was I used to always love just doing work on my bed. The positive thing about the habit was I was always comfortable. The negative thing is I would sometimes fall asleep. So many times I mid paper, you know, mid take home exam, fall asleep. I have to wake up and scramble to finish. But that doesn't show me a faster writer. If anything   Michael Hingson ** 10:41 I remember, when I was in graduate school at UC Irvine, I had an office of my own, and I was in it one day, and I was looking at some material. Fortunately, I was able to get most of the physics texts in Braille, so I was studying one, and the next thing I knew, I woke up and my finger was on the page, and I had just fallen asleep, and my finger for reading braille, was right where I left off. Always thought that was funny,   Michael Bervell ** 11:14 yeah, just a just a quick, just a quick pause. You just pause for a second, even   Michael Hingson ** 11:18 though it was about 45 minutes, but whatever. But my figure didn't move.   Michael Bervell ** 11:24 You really focused, you know, just That's it. That's it.   Michael Hingson ** 11:27 The advantage of Braille, exactly. But, you know, I do think that it's great to have those kinds of habits, and I really wish more people would learn the value of giving back and sharing, because it will come back to benefit you so many times over.   Michael Bervell ** 11:48 Yeah, yeah. I mean, what's even what influences me, like now and even throughout, you know, post high school, like when I went into college, I knew I wanted to be in some sort of service and giving back type of industry, but I didn't really know what that was, right, like, I didn't want to do want to do philanthropy full time, because I found it difficult, right? Like, I found it hard to have to go back to investors, and I found it difficult to sometimes sell the vision. And my question was, is there a way to make this more sustainable? And so I spent a lot of my time in school and college just learning about social impact, which, at the time was just coming up, like a lot of those impact investment funds, impact bonds, the idea that you can tie finance to impact, and you can have carbon offsets that people buy and sell, that has some sort of social good, that you can somehow transact. All these kind of new and interesting ideas were coming around, and it started, it just got me interested, right? It's, you know, can I make a habit of creating an impact, but also habits somehow work within, you know, this capitalist system that the world operates in. It's something I've been wrestling with, you know, even in all my my future business and kind of current business, work and practices.   Michael Hingson ** 12:58 What do you do when you propose an idea or have a thought, and you discuss with people and they object to it. How do you handle objections?   Michael Bervell ** 13:05 Yeah, I mean, I think, I think for me, I'm always interested in the root cause, right? I think I'm one who tries to understand first before trying to persuade. So I could give you an example, I think very early in my, very early my college career, I realized that my parents would be able to pay for college for me. That was the youngest of three. And, you know, they'd use a lot of their savings on my siblings, about the who ended up going to med school, which is very expensive, yeah, college, which was also very expensive. And being immigrants from Ghana, of course, they hadn't saved up an infinite amount of money. So my mom sat me down and told me, Hey, you have to pay your own tuition. And so, you know, the person I had to convince to kind of help me here was actually funny enough, restaurants are in Harvard Square, and the reason why is I decided to make a business that did restaurant consulting. So I went door to door, and I would ask people and like, hey, you know, do you need 20 Harvard students to come and help you understand how you can get more foot traffic in the door. You know, sell more pizzas or sell more burritos. I think I heard 20 or 30 knows. And finally, one woman said, Well, you know, if, if, if, if you think that you can do it, then, you know, show me. Show me the numbers, right? And that was, that was really interesting. And so I think it realized, you know, when I when she initially said, No, I said, Well, why not? She said, I just don't know if you can do it. And when I said, Oh, we can actually show you the proof, she's like, Okay, well, then if you can run a pilot and show me the proof, then I'll do it. And so understanding the why, I think, is more important than getting the rejection and, you know, getting the setback. But that's try to, that's how I try to deal with it.   Michael Hingson ** 14:38 One of the things that I learned fairly early on, when I was put in a position of starting to sell for a living, actually, in Cambridge, working for Kurzweil Computer Products and taking a Dale Carnegie sales course was stay away from asking closed ended or. Yes, no questions. And so most of the time, I wouldn't say, you know, can we do this? Or would you do this? I would say, I'd like to hear your thoughts about or we've got this idea, tell me what you think, and doing other things to get people to talk. And when I started using that in my career, it was easy to get people to talk because they they want to talk. Or, as I like to say, people love to teach, and most of the time, if you establish a relationship with people and they know you're listening, they're welcome, or they're willing to give you wisdom. And so there are so many examples I have of asking open ended questions like that, or I went into a sales meeting with one of my employees, and there were a bunch of people there, and I said, Tell me to the first person I talked with, tell me why we're here. And it totally caught him off guard. Of course. The other thing is that they didn't realize that the sales manager who was coming, that the the guy who had set up the appointment was was told to bring his manager, and they didn't realize that the sales manager was blind, which also was a great addition to help. But again, I didn't ask, so you want to take backup system, but rather tell me why we're here. Tell me what you're looking for. Why are you looking for that? What do you want it to be? And I actually realized by the time I went around the room that our product wasn't going to work, but we still did the PowerPoint presentation. And then I said, if case you haven't figured it out, our system won't work, and here's why, but here's what will work. And that eventually led to a much larger order, as it turns out, because they called back later and they said, We got another project, and we're not even putting it out for bid. Just tell us what we pay you, and we'll order it. And it's it's all about. The objections are really mostly, I think, from people who maybe have some concerns that you didn't learn about because you didn't ask an open ended up or the right question, which is something that only comes with time.   Michael Bervell ** 17:15 Yeah. I mean, I think it also sounds very similar to like, what journalists are are trained to do, like a great journalist. And I took a journalism class a few years ago, maybe five years ago, with Joe Abramson, who was one of the first female executive, executive editors of the New York Times. And this was kind of her exact lesson. Is that everyone has some story to teach, some wisdom to share, and the difficulty, or really the challenge on you as an interlocutor, as a journalist, as someone whose job it is to uncover the story, is to ask the right questions, yeah, to allow that person the space to teach.   Michael Hingson ** 17:51 And if you and if you don't know the right questions, you ask something open ended, enough that maybe you'll get to it.   Michael Bervell ** 17:57 Yeah, exactly, exactly. And then the flip side, right, because there's, of course, you can't put all the burden on the person, no, right? You have to be an active listener. You have to listen to know, and then you have to prod and even say something like, Tell me more. Yeah, exactly right. Questions like, Tell me more, her second favorite question was, and then what happened? Yeah, right. Those are two such simple things, you know? And then what? Yeah. And it's just such an opening to really evolve and to grow.   Michael Hingson ** 18:23 And if they really think you're listening and that you want to know and understand, people will talk to you exactly which is, which is really what it's about. Well, so you did all of your so you went to high school in Seattle, correct? Yeah. And, and then what did you do?   Michael Bervell ** 18:43 Yeah. So High School in Seattle Graduated, went off to Boston for college, where, you know, of course, had to figure out a way to pay for school. And that was my first, I guess, for profit business. Was this restaurant consulting company. And of course, like I said, everything I want to do in my in my life, was focused on social impact. So the impacts there was that we only hired students to work for us who needed to pay tuition. There was this program called federal work study where, if you get trade, you have to, you know, work as part of a federal mandate for some amount of hours per week, and that was the book study requirement. And for the most part, students would do on campus jobs that would pay 10, $15 an hour to do this work study. Well, I'd spent up this consulting business as a sophomore that I then ran for all three years, and on an hourly basis, we were making significantly more than that, right? So I was able to go find students who traditionally had been working their whole life, right? Harvard has such a, you know, vast background of individuals. I knew, people who were homeless, people who were billionaires and everyone in between, who ended up coming to the school and so to find people who you know had been working 40 hours a week since they were in middle school, and give them a job where they could work less and actually have more free time to invest in their community or invest back into developing new skills, was, for me, super, super impactful. On the surface, it was a restaurant. A consulting business, but behind the scenes, what we were doing with our staffing and with our culture was was around that social impact. So I stayed out in in Cambridge for for four years, studied philosophy. I got a minor in computer science, and eventually went off to Microsoft back in in Seattle, where I eventually then, you know, was product manager and was a venture capital investor, and met a bunch of really phenomenal and interesting people who were pushing technology forward.   Michael Hingson ** 20:27 Now, why Harvard, which is all the way across the country?   Michael Bervell ** 20:33 Yeah, I mean, well, I think I love traveling. I loved, I loved, you know, being out and about, and I think growing up as the youngest of three, and also as the child of African immigrants, they'd always told me, you know, we moved here for you, like we moved 3000 miles away to a country where you don't speak the language, where you don't know anybody for you. And what they meant for that is, you know, we want you to really thrive. And even you know, now I'm at the age when my parents had first moved right to the US, and I can't imagine moving to a country where I don't know the language, don't know the people, and don't know a soul for my potential future children. And their children, that's what they did, and they invested a lot of time and energy and effort into me. And they always told me, you want you to be really successful. And so I remember when I was when I was in middle school, my sister got into Harvard, which was unheard of, right? No one in our high school had gone to Harvard in the past, especially not for, you know, a black family in a primarily white neighborhood, for one of us to go to Harvard was was a big deal. And so I knew that, you know, at the very least, for my parents, for my sister, for my family, I wanted to kind of match up to that   Michael Hingson ** 21:43 well, and it certainly sounds like you've, you've done a lot of that. Oh, here's a an off the wall question, having been around Cambridge and worked in Cambridge and all that is cheapo records still in Harvard Square.   Michael Bervell ** 21:57 Oh, man. You know what's so funny, I got a record player. I got a record player last semester, and I don't remember if cheaper records, that's the one that's like, I think I've is that the one that's in like, the actual, like, it's by, like, Kendall, take by Kendall, Kendall Square.   Michael Hingson ** 22:15 No, I thought it was in Harvard Square. Okay,   Michael Bervell ** 22:19 I think, I think it still exists. If I'm not mistaken, I think it still exists. I think I got a lot, got a lot of records from cheapo over the years record stores in Cambridge. And because I got a record player as a gift, I've been, I've been collecting a lot more,   Michael Hingson ** 22:31 ah, yeah, um, I've gotten a lot of records from cheapo and over the years. And of course, not so much now, since I'm out here. But next time I get back to mass, I'll have to go check,   Michael Bervell ** 22:43 oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. We can do a cheapo records hanging how tactile It is, yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 22:52 There used to be one in New York that I would go to. They were more expensive as New York tends to be colony records, and they're not there anymore, which is sort of sad, but cheapo. Cheap just seemed to be one of those places that people liked. I don't want to say it was like a cult, although it sort of is all the dedicated people to to real vinyl, but I hope it's still   Michael Bervell ** 23:16 there. Is it? It's a chain of record stores, or is it just,   Michael Hingson ** 23:18 no, I think it's a one. Oh, yeah. If there's more than one, I'm not aware of it, I'd   Michael Bervell ** 23:23 probably say I'm 80% certain it still exists. Well there,   Michael Hingson ** 23:27 yeah, so have to come back to mass. And yeah, I'll have to go to cheaper records and Legal Seafood.   Michael Bervell ** 23:32 Oh yeah, Legal Seafood. That was, yeah, I love Legal Seafood musical all the time with my roommates from college. And, yeah, we used to order the crab cakes and eat lobster rolls. It's a great time.   Michael Hingson ** 23:44 Yeah, and then their little chocolate desserts, which are great yeah, and the chowder. Oh, well, yeah, yep, gotta, gotta get back to mass. Okay. Now whoever   Michael Bervell ** 23:53 you're listening is probably getting hungry. Well, you know,   Michael Hingson ** 23:57 as as they should, you know, you know why they call it Legal Seafood. I actually don't know nothing is frozen. It's all fresh. It's legal. Oh, I love that. I love that, at least that's what I was told. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Well, so you, you went to college and went then back to Seattle and worked for Microsoft and so on. So clearly, you're also interested in the whole idea of investing and the whole life of being an entrepreneur in various ways. And so you brought entrepreneurialism to everything that you did.   Michael Bervell ** 24:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that was my first job at Microsoft. I was, you know, managing what's called Windows IoT. So we were putting software on everything that wasn't a phone or a laptop. So think, you know, smart screens in airports, or screens in Times Square, or, you know, the type of software that your Amazon Echo, you know, maybe not Amazon in particular. But what that would run on that was working on IoT all these. They called it headless devices, yeah, devices with no screens. And that was my team for a little bit. I worked there for about year and a half. It was phenomenal. You know, we were managing multiple billions of dollars in revenue, and there was only, you know, 4050 people on my team. So you do the math, we're all managing hundreds, 10s to hundreds of millions of dollars in our products. And while I loved it, I realized that my my true passion was in was in meeting people, talking to people, and giving them the resources to succeed, versus giving them the actual technology itself. I loved being able to connect an engineer, you know, with the right supplier to work on a hard problem that could then be built for Microsoft to eventually get to a customer. And that sort of connection role, connector role is kind of the role of a venture capitalist. Yeah, right. You're connecting your limited partners who have invested in this fund to entrepreneurs who are trying to build some sort of idea from the ground up. And, you know, once you invest in the entrepreneur, then connecting the entrepreneur to mentors, to advisors, to potential employees, to potential customers. And so there's this value in being someone who's a listener, a journalist, right, like we had been talking about someone who has a habit of trying to make a broader impact. And it kind of all aligned with what I had been building up until that point. So I worked at M 12, it's Microsoft's venture capital fund, and invested in in a bunch of companies from Kahoot, which is like an education startup, to obviously open AI was a Microsoft investment as well, to other things like that. And so it was cool, because, you know, the fund was, was really, we had the mandate of just find cool companies, and because we were Microsoft, we could reach out to any founder and have a conversation. So it was, it really was a few years of just intense and deep learning and thoughtfulness that I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade for anything. What got   Michael Hingson ** 26:58 you started in the whole arena of thinking about and then being involved with digital accessibility, because we've talked about that a lot. I know that's a passion. So how did you get started down that road?   Michael Bervell ** 27:11 Yeah, I mean, it came partially through working at Microsoft, right? I mean, as I was at Microsoft, Satya Nadella, who was the CEO, he was making big, big investments into digital accessibility, primarily because his son, now, his late son, had cerebral palsy, and a lot of the technology at Microsoft, his son couldn't use, and so he had this kind of mission and vision to want to make more accessible technologies. But my first exposure to it even before then, like I said, in college, I had to work all these, all these jobs to pay tuition, and I built my own business, but one of the clients we consulted for was a large search engine. I'm sure you can imagine which one it was, and it wasn't Microsoft, and that were search engine. I helped them devise their ability strategy.   Michael Hingson ** 27:56 You mean the G word, something like that? Yeah.   Michael Bervell ** 28:00 Yeah. Duck, duck, go, yeah. No, that's it. Yeah, exactly. And so it was really cool to work with them and to see like at scale, at 200,000 employee scale, at 1000 product scale, how do you create systems and guardrails such that accessibility, in this case, digital accessibility, will be something that that actually ends up happening. Ends up happening. And so that was my first exposure to it. And then again at Microsoft. And then finally, a third time, while I was in business school, you know, working on various projects with friends. And one friend told me, you know, all I did at work this week was have to fix accessibility bugs because my company got sued. And that was and just all those moments combined with the idea that I wanted to impact the deep empathy that comes through learning and knowing and understanding people's backgrounds and histories, all of it came to a head with what I now work on at test party.   Michael Hingson ** 28:57 So now, how long has test party been around? And we'll get to that up. But, but how long have you had that?   Michael Bervell ** 29:03 Yeah, we started. We started about a year ago. Okay, so it's pretty recent,   Michael Hingson ** 29:07 so yeah, definitely want to get to that. But, so the whole issue of accessibility, of course, is a is a thing that most people don't tend to know a lot about. So so let's start this way. Why should people worry about making products and places like websites accessible? And I know websites, in a lot of ways, are a lot easier than going off and making physical products accessible, especially if they're already out, because redesign is a very expensive thing to do, and is not something that a lot of people are going to do, whereas, when you're dealing with websites, it's all about coding, and it's a lot easier. Yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 29:48 yeah. I mean, I think, I think fundamentally, it comes down to, you know, a set of core beliefs. And I think we could all agree, and I think we would all believe that, like everyone has the right to. You a decent, fulfilling and enjoyable life. I think regardless of where you fall on, you know, belief spectrums or anything, that's something that we all fundamentally believe. You know, you should live well. You should try to live a good life. It's what people talked about in writing for years. And I think when you think of the good life in today's terms, in the 21st century, it's almost inseparable from a life that also engages with technology, whether it's cell phones or computers or whatever it might be, technology has become so fundamental into how we live that it now has also become part of how we live well and how we live a good life. And I'll give you a clear example, right? Let's suppose you really believe that voting is part of living the good life. There is a time, 100 years ago, you know, you didn't need to really have a car. You could get a rehearsing buggy. Maybe you could even walk to a voting station and cast your vote in today's world, especially, let's suppose a COVID world, and even a post COVID world, computers, technology, websites, are fundamental in living that good life, if that's your belief system. And you can play this game with any belief that you have, and once you extrapolate into what does it take for you to do that thing in the best way possible? It almost inevitably, inevitably, you know, engages with technology. Yeah, so why do I think having accessible websites are important? Well, it's because pretty much 195 people has a disability of some sort, and so to live the good life, they have to engage technology. And if that technology is not working for them for whatever reason, then that needs to be fixed. That needs to be changed. And of course, there's the guardrails of laws, you know, ADA, Americans with Disabilities Act, EAA European Accessibility Act and others that try to mandate this. And of course, there's the goodwill of companies who try to do this proactively. I think Apple is a really good example, and Microsoft as well. But fundamentally, the question is, you know, what is a good life? How do you enable people to live that? And I think through technology, people should be able to live a better life, and should not have any barriers to access.   Michael Hingson ** 32:02 The thing is, though, take apple, for example. For the longest time, Apple wouldn't do anything about making their products accessible. Steve Jobs, jobs basically told people to pound sand when they said, iTunes, you wasn't even accessible, much less the iPod and the iPhone and the Mac. And it wasn't until two things happened that they changed really. One was target.com target had been sued because they wouldn't make their website accessible, and eventually too many things went against target in the courtroom, where they finally said, Okay, we'll settle and make this work. When they settled, it cost them $8 million to settle, whereas if they had just fixed it up front, the estimate is that it would have been about $40,000 in time and person hours, but because of where the lawsuit was filed and so on, it was $8 million to settle the case. And so that was one thing, and the other was it had been made very clear that Apple was the next company on the target list because they weren't doing anything to make their product successful. Well, Apple suddenly said, Okay, we'll take care of it. We will deal with it. And I think they had already started, but they and so as not to get sued, they said, We will do it. Well, probably the first thing that happened was the iPhone 3g well, maybe it wasn't the three, it was earlier, but the iPhone became accessible. The iPod became accessible. Pretty much all of them, iTunes, you the Mac. So by 2009 last when I got my iPhone 3g Apple was well known for making their products accessible, and they did it in a very clever way. It was accessible right from the outset. You didn't have to buy other stuff to make their products work. No need to buy a new screen reader or any of those kinds of things. So they spread the cost over every product that they sold, whoever bought it, so anyone who buys an iPhone can invoke accessibility today, which, which was cool, yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 34:09 yeah. And I think through Apple, I mean, I think the initial argument I made for why is it import to make websites accessible was an ethical argument, right? I think in Apple's case, they, they probably did the business case analysis and understood this actually does make economic sense. And I think what you see today is there is even more economic sense because of the expanding market size. Right? Think the aging population that will develop some sort of disability or impairment, right? That's really growing larger, right? Think about, you know, individuals who may have what people call temporary disabilities that are not permanent, but last for some period of time, whether it's, you know, nine months, 10 months, two years, three years, and those types of things. So I think there is, there's also a business case for it. I think that's what Apple as a case study has shown. What you bring up, though, is, does it matter? Does it really matter? Like, why companies start doing this, right? And I think that's a question, you know, to grapple with. You know, if Apple did it out of the goodness of their heart versus because they didn't want to get sued, but the downstream effects are the same, you know, does that matter? And, you know, question, Do the ends justify the means? In this case, the ends are good, at least just by the start, perhaps, but sure that interesting question so, but I do think that they have done really good work   Michael Hingson ** 35:27 well. And you and you brought up something which, you know we talked about, which is that you talked about one company that dealt with some of because they got sued. And litigation is all around us. Unfortunately, we're a very litigious society and in our world today. So so like with accessibe, that that I work with, and work for that company, and a lot of what I do, some people have said, well, accessibe shouldn't always use the idea that, well, if you don't make your website accessible, you're going to get sued. That's a bad marketing decision, and I think there are limits, but the reality is that there are lawyers who are out there who still haven't been muzzled yet, who will file 5060, 100 complaints just to and they get a blind person to sign off and say, Yeah, we support this, because they'll get paid something for it. But they're not looking to make the companies deal with accessibility. They just want to earn money, 10,015 $20,000 per company. But the reality is, part of the market is educating people that litigation is a possibility because of the fact that the internet is a place of business under the Americans with Disabilities Act.   Michael Bervell ** 36:54 Yeah, exactly. I think when you think of like, you know, what is the purpose of litigation? Again, I, as a philosophy guy, I always think back to first principles, and it really is a deterrent, right? Obviously, no one wants to get sued. And, of course, no one wants to pay damages, punitive or reparative. And so in this case, these are all examples of punitive damages that people are paying for not having done the right thing. Right? In in, in the best case, you do the right thing to begin with. But I think it's, you know, the consequence of not doing the right thing. I think, of course, there's the question of you described, kind of these lawyers, or what people call as kind of the trolls who are just kind of suing and, you know, reaping the benefits from this. And I think it's an unfortunate side effect. I do wish that there was a world where these trolls wouldn't even need to exist, because things are working perfectly, right, well,   Michael Hingson ** 37:45 and the reality is that it goes back far earlier than the internet. I mean, there are places, there are people who would drive around and make people in wheelchairs who might find the smallest by violation wasn't even necessarily a legitimate violation, and they would sue and so and so. It isn't anything new that is just with the internet. Yeah, it's been going on for years. Yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 38:11 those are the drive by lawsuits. I remember I heard about those, and I think it's, this is the digital equivalent of that,   Michael Hingson ** 38:16 right? Yeah, right. And it is an issue, and it is something that that needs to be dealt with, but you also talk about doing the right thing, and that's really the better reason for doing it. If you do, you really want to exclude up to 20% of your potential business by not making your website accessible. Or better yet, if you make your website inclusive for all, what is going to happen when somebody comes to your website looking for a product and then they buy it because they were able to are they going to come back to that website? Are they going to go looking elsewhere? And there are so many studies like Nielsen did studies, and others have done studies that show absolutely people appreciate brand loyalty, and when they feel that they're they're valued and included, they're going to stick with that company.   Michael Bervell ** 39:12 Yeah? But even with that said, right, there's so this conflict of we all logically know it's the right thing to do, there's business purpose for doing it, and yet people don't do it. Yeah, 97% of the internet is still not accessible, if you look at this correct right? And so our hypothesis release, what we take, and what I take as a business is that sometimes, if it's too hard to do the right thing, people won't do the right thing, but that's what they want to do. And so how do you make it easier to do the right thing? And that's hopefully what, what we're what we're hoping to change in the industry, is just making it easier and also letting people know that this is an issue. One   Michael Hingson ** 39:48 of the one of the criticisms, oh, go ahead. Go ahead. A lot of people   Michael Bervell ** 39:52 don't, don't do the right thing, because just don't know that there is a right thing to do. You know   Michael Hingson ** 39:56 right well. And one of the criticisms I've heard over the. Years, especially dealing with the products like accessibe is, well, the problem is, you just slap this AI thing on their site, you're not teaching them anything, and that's not a good thing. And with manual coders, they're going to teach people. Well, that's not true either, but, but this whole argument of, well, you just put it on there, and then you go away, which isn't true, but again, that's one of the criticisms that I've heard any number of times, and that you're not really educating people about accessibility. You're not really educating them much about it. And the answer is, look, the company that wants to do business came to you in the first place. So they obviously knew they had to do something.   Michael Bervell ** 40:44 Yeah, yeah. And I think when I think through it, it's like, how do you make sure that the downstream effects of whatever you do is just positive and beneficial, right? And the ideal, as we all agree, I think, would be just to build it right the first time. Whether it's physical buildings, build a building right the first time. Or, if it's websites, build the website correctly the first time. Whatever helps people to get to that stage and that level of thinking and habits I think are, are ideal   Michael Hingson ** 41:13 coming from your background and so on. You know now that there are two basic ways that people can work to make websites accessible. One is the traditional way where you have someone who goes in and codes in the access and puts it right on the website. And now, over the past several years, the other way that has come into existence is the whole concept of using as accessibe does AI and although AI won't necessarily do everything that needs to be done, it will do most of what needs to be done, and maybe everything, depending on how complex the website is. But what do you think about the whole fact that now AI has entered into the accessibility world and people are using it?   Michael Bervell ** 42:02 Yeah, I think AI is interesting. And I think AI is a tool. I think it's it's a tool that's been developed, obviously, over a long history, right? Like the first artificial intelligent computers were in the 60s and 70s, being able to predict things, and of course, you heard of AlphaGo and computers that could pay chess and all these different things. So I think we'll definitely be surprised by what AI can do as a tool, right? And the question is, it will be, you know, the panacea, the thing to cure it all. Well, we all love for that to be the case. Who knows? You know, if it'll be AI, maybe functionally, AI could do that. But in terms of compute power, you know, it won't be able to until we have quantum computing or something right, in which case maybe it'll leapfrog this whole type of technology, and maybe web page will be obsolete in a decade, and then this whole idea of even needing to use AI to fix web pages will be replaced something else, like, like Be My Eyes, or something like that. That's even more advanced. But I think, as I see it, it's a tool that can be used to make it easier. And whether it's ease of use in terms of physical effort, ease of cost, in terms of bringing down costs to you know, to make a website compliant or a digital asset compliant, or just ease of understanding, right? Someone can explain to you what these really complicated rules mean, and so you can actually think about it from day one. So I think AI as a tool can lead to ease, which can then furthermore lead to hopefully more accessible products.   Michael Hingson ** 43:30 Well, the first time I ran into real AI was working with Ray Kurzweil back in the late 70s. He developed a machine that would read print out loud to blind people. But one of the things that was unique about them, well, vinyl, whether it's totally unique, but certainly was unique for blind people and for most of us, was the fact that the more the machine read, the better the reading got. It actually learned, and it learned how to to understand and analyze its confidence. And so it would get better the more that it read. Chris. The only problem with that is, back in those days, the software was on a cassette that went into a player that was part of a Data General, Nova two. And so it had to learn all over again every time you rebooted the machine and loaded the program. But that's okay. It learned based on on what you were reading, but it really dramatically got better the more you read. And I think that today, the reality is that a lot of people really need to. And I would say this is true of manual coders. And I know a few who have adopted this, they'll use accessibe to do what it can do, and then they, in turn, then go and address the issues that access a B's widget doesn't do. And for me, my. My learning that lesson actually goes back to the mid 1980s when I couldn't get a job, and I started my own company selling computer aided design systems to architects. And a lot of architects would come in and say, well, we can't buy your system. Yeah, great. It works, but if we use it, we'll develop our drawings in a fraction of the time, and we can't charge what we did, because now we're not spending as much time, and I said you're missing the whole point. You change your model. You're not charging for your time. You're charging for your expertise. You don't need to charge less. And what you do is then you go off and you get more projects, but you can also do more for each individual customer that you bring in. We had access to a system that was a one of the early PC based three dimensional solid metal modeling CAD systems, so people could come into our office, or anybody who bought the product could could invite their customers in, and they could do actual walk throughs and fly throughs of buildings. They had light sources or Windows to look out. You could even see what was going on outside. It wasn't renderings. You actually saw everything right on the computer. Those are so many things that revolutionize the industry. Now, of course, CAD is everywhere as it should be, and the reality is that that I think that any manual programmer who is programming a website could use accessibe to do a lot of the work, and then an accessibe also has some tools using a product called Access flow, where they can analyze and even tell you exactly what you need to do with the things that aren't accessible, and then you can do it, but you can use accessibe to do most of the stuff, and it continuously monitors it's a scalability issue, and you don't get any scalability with manual coding at all. So again, it's the whole, as you point out, the whole tool of artificial intelligence really can make a big difference in what we're doing to create accessibility on in the internet and in so many other ways as we go forward.   Michael Bervell ** 47:06 Yeah, and already we're running right up on time with a minute or two left. But I think even fundamentally, what you're what you're describing, back to first principles is, is, if we make it easier, either in time or in effort or in understanding, to make things accessible. Will people do it right? Whether you're using, you know, an access to be or whether you're using another tool, there's this question, How will it help? And will it help? And I think in evaluating any tool, and really I can apply in so many cases, that's the core question task.   Michael Hingson ** 47:37 Since we started late, it's up to you, but time wise, we're fine. It's up to you, but I realize that we want to end fairly soon here, but I think you're right, and that gets back to the whole education issue. People really need to learn and understand the value of accessibility, why it's a good thing, and it's kind of hard to argue with losing 20% of your business because your website's not accessible. And accessible, and the reputation that you gain by not doing it can go beyond that 20% when people tell their own friends about the issues they're facing. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it goes the other way. You make it accessible, and you get all sorts of accolades. That's going to help too. But it is a conversation that we need to have, and it's part of the whole big conversation about disabilities. In general, we don't really see disabilities as much in the conversation. When we hear about people talking and discussing diversity, they talk about race, gender, sexual orientation, so on, but they don't talk about disabilities, and disabilities tend to be left out of the conversation for the most part, which is extremely unfortunate. Why do you think that is?   Michael Bervell ** 48:46 Yeah, I think, I think it comes down to, I'm not, I'm not sure why it is. I'm not sure. But I think even though I'm not sure why it is, I do know what I hope. And I think what I hope is for, you know, a world where every, every part of society reflects what it's made up of, right? So you look and it's representative of of all the constituents, people with disabilities, people of different genders and races and and so on and so forth, so, so I think that's what I hope for. I think it's difficult, right? It's difficult based on the systems that have been made people's biases and more to get there, but I do think, I do think that's ultimately the hope. But I   Michael Hingson ** 49:30 think that a lot of it comes down to fear people. Fear people with disabilities. I think that the whole fear factor, and even with race or gender or sexual orientation, so on, some of the comments, if you listen to them, all they're doing is promoting fear which which doesn't help at all. But in the case of disabilities, oh my gosh, I could become blind or paralyzed in a second, and that fear is something that we really don't tend to you. Do nearly as much about as we should. Now I know you and I earlier talked about fear, and the reality is that that we can learn to control fear. I would never tell people don't be afraid. No such thing as not being afraid, but you can certainly learn to control fear so that you can use it again as a very powerful tool to guide you and help you, and that's what the best aspects of fear are all about. I think, yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 50:26 I totally agree. I totally agree. Well, speaking of fear, I would be afraid of what might go I'm a president for Section G, which is one of the sections here, HBS, and we have to go select our Class Day speaker. So I'd be afraid if I, if I missed too much of the well, if they,   Michael Hingson ** 50:43 if they want to hire a speaker, I'm just saying I know Mike was, I was like, Man, I wish I had met you, like, back when you're doing our, our, like alumni and friend speakers. On the other hand, we can certainly talk about next year, and I would love to do that. Well, I want to really thank you for being here. I think we'll just have to have another discussion about all of this in the future. But I really appreciate you being here a lot and chatting very, very frequently, and you're going to go off and play drums later too, right? Oh, yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 51:11 it's a busy I'm in my, you know, Shirley retirement era, you know, yeah, right. Go back into, back into the workforce.   Michael Hingson ** 51:19 So, real quick, though, you wrote a book. What's it called?   Michael Bervell ** 51:23 It's called unlocking unicorns. I'll send you a copy of the book, and so you can put in the show notes and everything else. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 51:29 that would be great. And if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Yeah,   Michael Bervell ** 51:34 but just my name, Michael purvell, M, I, C, H, A, E, L, B, E, R, V, E, L, l.com, contact my website. Is there? My bio, and this podcast will be there eventually   Michael Hingson ** 51:46 as well it will, and you'll get all the info. Well, thanks very much, and I want to thank you all for listening. Really appreciate you listening to us today. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please email me at Michael, h, i, m, I, C, H, A, E, L, C, we spell our names the same. H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson, H, I N, G, s, o, n.com/podcast, and would love to to hear your thoughts. Love it. If you would give us a five star review wherever you're listening. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest, please introduce us. We're always looking for it. And I would also say if anybody needs a speaker, it is what I've been doing ever since September 11, and I'm always looking for speaking opportunities. So please reach out and let's see if we can chat and and one of these days, maybe we'll get Michael to bring us up to Harvard we can go visit the coupe. But thanks so much for listening, everyone. Thanks once more for thanks. Once more Michael, for being here. Thanks.   Michael Hingson ** 52:52 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Guest:J.J. Jerome is an award-winning engineer and futurist who used his unique background in brain science and electronics to become a seminal influence in numerous cutting-edge technologies. He has been an internationally acknowledged leader in the development of human interfaces and intelligent building technology and is currently one of the nation's leading thinkers on using big data to mitigate climate change. He presents regularly at national conferences and is an advisor for STEM education.Guest Website: https://www.jjjerome.com/_____________________________Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastVisit Marco's website

Did you know Bryan Johnson spends over $2 million per year in his personal health and longevity experiments? Bryan Johnson took the internet by storm in 2023 when it was reported that he spends approximately $2 million annually on his health regimen aimed at reversing aging. His extreme lifestyle choices and practices, including a strict diet, extensive supplement intake, and unique medical procedures, sparked widespread discussions in various news articles and platforms throughout that year. Join us today as we sit down for a conversation with Bryan to learn more about his journey, experiences, habits and routines he follows that helped him successfully reverse his age.  Resource List - Read about Bryan Johnson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Johnson  Who is Terry Grossman? - https://transcend.me/pages/about-terry-grossman  More on Terry Grossman - https://youtu.be/_2rjnGCdlJI?feature=shared  Blueprint Website - https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.com/  Blueprint Protocol Website - https://protocol.bryanjohnson.com/  What are DNA Methylation Clocks? - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6520108/  Paper by Dario Amodei - https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace  Fantastic Voyage, book by Ray Kurzweil - https://amzn.in/d/diSBypa  About SparX by Mukesh Bansal  SparX is a podcast where we delve into cutting-edge scientific research, stories from impact-makers and tools for unlocking the secrets to human potential and growth.   We believe that entrepreneurship, fitness and the science of productivity is at the forefront of the India Story; the country is at the cusp of greatness and at SparX, we wish to make these tools accessible for every generation of Indians to be able to make the most of the opportunities around us.   In a new episode every Sunday, our host Mukesh Bansal (Founder Myntra and Cult.fit) will talk to guests from all walks of life and also break down everything he's learnt about the science of impact over the course of his 20-year long career.   This is the India Century, and we're enthusiastic to start this journey with you.  Follow us on Instagram:      / sparxbymukeshbansal   Website: https://www.sparxbymukeshbansal.com You can also listen to SparX on all audio platforms Fasion | Outbreak | Courtesy EpidemicSound.com

We want to hear from you! Send us a text message.Are we ready for a world where AI and technology shape every corner of our lives?In this episode of The TechEd Podcast, host Matt Kirchner sits down with Toshi Hoo, Director of the Emerging Media Lab at the Institute for the Future, to explore how technology is transforming the way we communicate, collaborate, and connect. From the breakthroughs of generative AI to the concept of the singularity, Toshi shares cutting-edge insights into what's next for humanity—and why curiosity might be the most important skill of all.With decades of experience in emerging technologies and strategic foresight, Toshi offers a compelling vision of a future that feels as exciting as it does uncertain. Together, Matt and Toshi unpack the promise and pitfalls of technological change, from AI's creative potential to the ethical challenges it presents.Listen to learn:A better understanding of generative AI - and why tools like ChatGPT don't actually give you "answers"Could the "holodeck" be more than science fiction? Toshi's work in XR and AI suggest it could be a real tool someday soon.Toshi's surprising connection to famed futurist Ray Kurzweil and what we know about the singularityHow AI modeling enables more accurate scenario planning, helping organizations prepare for a range of possible futures and make smarter decisions today.Why curiosity isn't just a personality trait but the defining skill for thriving in a world of rapid disrution.3 Big Takeaways from this Episode:Generative AI redefines creativity but also challenges our trust in technology. Generative AI doesn't give deterministic results, as the same inputs can yield different outputs. This non-deterministic nature enables creativity but also raises issues with reliability and accuracy. Educators should keep this in mind when having students interact with AI-driven tools in the learning experience.Immersive technology like XR and AI is on the verge of delivering "holodeck"-like experiences. The combination of AI and XR tools can create real-time, interactive simulations for collaboration and learning. These systems could allow users to explore environments from historical settings to molecular structures. Imagine how immersive learning can become with this technology!Thanks to AI, modeling and scenario planning are becoming democratized, empowering organizations to anticipate diverse futures. Modeling tools informed by AI can simulate complex systems such as city planning or healthcare data. These tools enable organizations to test strategies across multiple scenarios and adapt effectively.Resources in this Episode:To learn more about Institute for the Future, visit: www.iftf.orgInstagram - Facebook - YouTube - TikTok - Twitter - LinkedIn

In this episode of The Box of Oddities, Kat, and Jethro take you on a journey through four wildly fascinating tales. First, we dive into Ray Kurzweil's theory of mind uploading, exploring the mind-bending idea of transferring human consciousness into a digital format—could immortality be just a click away? Then, prepare for a grim story about amateur castration surgery—we have questions because sometimes, people's DIY ambitions are better left untried. The mystery continues as we investigate the Kincaid Cave, a hidden location tied to ancient secrets and bizarre discoveries that have confounded experts for years. Finally, we uncover the symbolism behind the intricate designs of traditional Māori tattoos, known as tā moko, revealing the deep cultural meanings behind these markings. It's an episode full of science, mystery, and culture—don't miss it! If you would like to advertise on The Box of Oddities, contact advertising@airwavemedia.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Silicon Valley's interest in AI is driven by more than just profit and innovation. There's an unmistakable mystical quality to it as well. In this episode, Daniel and Aza sit down with humanist chaplain Greg Epstein to explore the fascinating parallels between technology and religion. From AI being treated as a godlike force to tech leaders' promises of digital salvation, religious thinking is shaping the future of technology and humanity. Epstein breaks down why he believes technology has become our era's most influential religion and what we can learn from these parallels to better understand where we're heading.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on X.If you like the show and want to support CHT's mission, please consider donating to the organization this giving season: https://www.humanetech.com/donate. Any amount helps support our goal to bring about a more humane future.RECOMMENDED MEDIA “Tech Agnostic” by Greg EpsteinFurther reading on Avi Schiffmann's “Friend” AI necklace Further reading on Blake Lemoine and Lamda Blake LeMoine's conversation with Greg at MIT Further reading on the Sewell Setzer case Further reading on Terminal of Truths Further reading on Ray Kurzweil's attempt to create a digital recreation of his dad with AI The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice MillerRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES 'A Turning Point in History': Yuval Noah Harari on AI's Cultural Takeover How to Think About AI Consciousness with Anil Seth Can Myth Teach Us Anything About the Race to Build Artificial General Intelligence? With Josh Schrei How To Free Our Minds with Cult Deprogramming Expert Dr. Steven Hassan 

Amjad Masad is the co-founder and CEO of Replit, a browser-based coding environment that allows anyone to write and deploy code. Replit has 34 million users globally and is one of the fastest-growing developer communities in the world. Prior to Replit, Amjad worked at Facebook, where he led the JavaScript infrastructure team and contributed to popular open-source developer tools. Additionally, he played a key role as a founding engineer at the online coding school Codecademy. In our conversation, Amjad shares:• A live demo of Replit in action• How Replit's AI agent can build full-stack web applications from a simple text prompt• The implications of AI-powered development for product managers, designers, and engineers• How this might reshape companies and careers• Why being “generative” will become an increasingly valuable skill• “Amjad's law” and how learning to debug AI-generated code is becoming ever more valuable• Much more—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Persona—A global leader in digital identity verification• LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad—Where to find Amjad Masad:• X: https://x.com/amasad• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amjadmasad/• Website: https://amasad.me/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Amjad Masad and Replit(02:41) The vision and challenges of Replit(06:50) Replit's growth and user stories(10:49) Demo of Replit's capabilities(16:51) Building and iterating with Replit(25:04) Real-world applications and use cases(30:13) The technology stack(33:48) The evolution of Replit and its capabilities(39:36) The future of AI in software development(44:04) Skills for the future: generative thinking and coding(47:26) Amjad's law(50:36) Replit's new developments and future plans—Referenced:• Replit: https://replit.com/• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com• Aman Mathur on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aman-mathur/• Node: https://nodejs.org/en• Claude: https://claude.ai/• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/• Wasm: https://webassembly.org/• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Codecademy: https://www.codecademy.com/• Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/news• Paul Graham's website: https://www.paulgraham.com/• Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/• Open AI: https://openai.com/• Amjad's tweet about “society of models”: https://x.com/amasad/status/1568941103709290496• About HCI: https://www.designdisciplin.com/p/hci-profession• Taylor Swift's website: https://www.taylorswift.com/• Andrew Wilkinson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/awilkinson/• Haya Odeh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haya-odeh-b0725928/• Amjad's law: https://x.com/snowmaker/status/1847377464705896544• Ray Kurzweil's website: https://www.thekurzweillibrary.com/• God of the gaps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

We had Peggy Chong as a guest in episode five of Unstoppable Mindset back in October of 2021. Peggy spends a great deal of her time researching blind people, she calls them her blind ancestors, to learn and write about their histories. For example, did you know that five blind people in the 1930s served as congressmen or U.S. senators? True. Did you know that the typewriter was invented for a blind countess? Did you know that it was a blind person who invented automobile cruise control?   Peggy will talk about all these stories and others. Recently she spent two weeks at the library of Congress researching one project that she will discuss. Spoiler alert: we don't get to hear the end of the story as Peggy has more research to do and more documents to uncover. However, the story she tells us this time is intriguing and spellbinding. So join me on a journey to learn more about the history of blind people and learn why you should even thank blind people for some of the inventions you take for granted today.       About the Guest:   Peggy Chong's first book in print, Don Mahoney: Blind Television Star is on the shelves at many book sellers.  She writes and lectures as The Blind History Lady.  Her infatuation with stories she heard of those she now calls her “Blind Ancestors” surprised and inspired her to learn more, for herself at first and then bring their light to the world.  Peggy researches their stories and brings to life the REAL struggles of what it was and is still, to be a blind person in the United States.   Her works have been published in _The Iowa History Journal, Dialogue Magazine, The Farmington Daily Times, The Braille Monitor and Future Reflections. _ Each month she sends to her email followers another story of a blind ancestor to inspire blind and sighted alike.   Currently, Peggy Chong chairs the Preservation of Historical Documents for the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado, to save the single-source files, records, news clippings and correspondence of the blind of Colorado dating back to 1915.   She has been an active part of the blind community for more than forty years.  Determined to imbue the service delivery system for the blind with a more positive and forward-looking philosophy, Peggy joined with other blind people in Minneapolis, Minnesota to establish Blindness: Learning in New Dimensions (BLIND, Inc.), a training center for the blind designed to encourage its students to achieve self-sufficient and productive lives.  In 1985, Peggy Chong accepted the position of President of the Board of BLIND, Inc., a position she held for ten years.  During that time, she worked with many students of all ages and varying levels of vision, encouraging them to learn the alternative nonvisual techniques of blindness and fueling their imaginations to dream of a life where each of them could live and work in their communities on a basis of equality with their sighted peers.  She also helped many of them to make intelligent decisions about their vision--when it would be helpful and when it would hinder progress toward independence.   After moving to Baltimore Maryland in 1997, Peggy secured a position with BISM as an outreach/instructor.  In 1998, Peggy left BISM accepting a position with the Job Opportunities for the Blind program at the National Center for the Blind in Baltimore, Maryland.  For more than a year, she led a succession of intensive two-week training sessions designed to teach computer and other important job-readiness skills to blind individuals seeking employment.  She also worked individually with each job candidate to refine the job search according to the unique needs of each, and she worked with numerous employers to ensure that the characteristic of blindness was accurately perceived and the blind job applicant treated fairly.  When a job was offered to any of her students, she provided assistance before  and after securing the job to ensure that each of them had the tools needed to succeed in the new position.  Sometimes this involved connecting her student with other blind persons doing that same job somewhere in the United States.  At other times, she provided information and advice about new, non-traditional techniques that could be used to perform the job successfully.   Later, Peggy served for three years as the National Program Manager for NFB-NEWSLINE®, out of the Baltimore MD offices.  In this position, she formed valuable relationships with national and local newspapers, community-based service delivery organizations and rehabilitation programs, and literally thousands of blind men and women--many of them newly-blind--across the country.   After moving to Iowa in 2002, she became a private contractor providing consulting services and employment training to governmental agencies and nonprofit organizations.  Her work involved the dissemination of job-search, résumé creation and distribution services designed to help individuals--with or without disabilities--to secure competitive employment.  She also taught independent travel to the Blind.  She also served as the NFB-NEWSLINE Coordinator for the state of Iowa for several years.   For more than forty years, Peggy has been active in a variety of community organizations: the National Federation of the Blind, the American Cancer society, the Hawthorn Area Community Council, the Cooperating Fund Drive, Iowa and Albuquerque Genealogical Societies, Friends of the Iowa Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, The Friends of the Colorado Talking Book Library, State Rehabilitation Council for the Commission for the Blind of New Mexico, board member-ADA Advisory Committee for the City of Albuquerque Iowa Shares and Oasis of Albuquerque.    Ways to connect with Peggy:   Website: theblindhistorylady.com   Email: theblindhistorylady@gmail.com       About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 00:16 Hi. I'm Michael Hinkson, Chief vision Officer for accessibe and the author of the number one New York Times best selling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast. As we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion, unacceptance and our resistance to change, we will discover the idea that no matter the situation or the people we encounter, our own fears and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The Unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessibe. That's a C, C, E, S, S, I, capital, B, E, visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities and to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025 glad you dropped by, we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hello and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. We get to do a lot of all of that today. So it's kind of fun. In October of 2021 I had the honor and pleasure to interview well, let me rephrase that, talk with Peggy Chong, known as the blind history lady. Maybe it was a little bit more of an interview then, but we have really reshaped unstoppable mindset to be a conversation and not an interview. So it does get to be something where we get to talk with each other and ask each other questions and whatever else makes sense to do. Well, Peggy wrote a story about blind lady, and the story was published recently, and she did what she always does, she sends it to anyone on her mailing list. And I'm fortunate enough to be on it and read it, and I suddenly realized it has been two and a half years since we had Peggy on, and that has to change. So Peggy, welcome on to unstoppable mindset. Welcome   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. We get to do a lot of all of that today. So it's kind of fun. In October of 2021 I had the honor and pleasure to interview well, let me rephrase that, talk with Peggy Chong, known as the blind history lady. Maybe it was a little bit more of an interview then, but we have really reshaped unstoppable mindset to be a conversation and not an interview. So it does get to be something where we get to talk with each other and ask each other questions and whatever else makes sense to do. Well, Peggy wrote a story about blind lady, and the story was published recently, and she did what she always does, she sends it to anyone on her mailing list. And I'm fortunate enough to be on it and read it, and I suddenly realized it has been two and a half years since we had Peggy on, and that has to change. So Peggy, welcome on to unstoppable mindset. Welcome   Peggy Chong ** 02:22 to me. Yes, that's I was really surprised it had been two and a half years. So thanks for having me back.   Michael Hingson ** 02:29 Well anytime. So Peggy is known as the blind history lady because she specifically researches information about blind people, and she really researches their lives and then tells people about them, and we'll dig into a lot of that, but why don't we start? Maybe it'll be a little bit of redoing of what we did. Tell us about the early Peggy growing up.   Peggy Chong ** 02:52 Well, I grew up in a family where my mother was blind, and I have three blind siblings out of a family of five kids. So there's four of us, and my mother had gone to the North Dakota School for the Blind, so she was not eager to send her children to the School for the Blind at all. She wanted us to go to public school. So we well. She did not like the idea of being so far away from her family. She felt that it really there were some family dynamics that go in to that as well. But basically, she went up there in the end of August, early September, many times came home for Christmas, but not always, and then she went home the end of May. So she was really only with her family, mostly in the summers.   Michael Hingson ** 03:53 I remember when I was growing up and we moved to California from Chicago, and my parents had really heated arguments with the school district in Palmdale because they said I shouldn't go to school there. I should go to the school for the blind, which at that point was in well, and still is in Northern California. It hadn't relocated to Fremont, I don't think, yet, but they wanted me to go there, and my parents said, No, he's going to grow up and go to regular public schools. And it was a huge battle. Well, my parents won, but I suspect it was for probably a lot of the same reasons why your mom didn't want you guys to go.   Peggy Chong ** 04:35 Well, my mom came from a town of 400 people, so the public school there. First of all, if she had gone to public school, most kids didn't get past the eighth grade, you know, they went to work on the farms, and I think she would have not been able to get a lot of material in any kind of a format at a. All her ophthalmologist when she was six years old, wrote in her record that she needed to go to the school for the blind and to learn to read and write in braille, which I thought was amazing, yeah, for a doctor to say that at that time,   Michael Hingson ** 05:17 yeah, the doctors told my parents to send me off to a home, because no blind child could ever grow up to amount to anything or be useful at all, and all I would do would be to destroy the family dynamic and but you know, the other side of it is, as we know, you and I, places like the School for the Blind in California really did teach a lot. They were at that time. I think Newell Perry was, was still, still there. You know, Tim Brook had been one of his students, and they did teach a lot of the right stuff, along with providing the right material. But still, was a question of whether that's where you really wanted to be sent to or have your child sent to.   Peggy Chong ** 06:01 You know, one of the interesting things that has changed a lot of my thinking, doing this whole history dive that I have been doing, when I graduated from public school, I didn't really feel like a part of my class, but I thought I had gotten a better education, and at that time, the schools for the blind were changing. More kids were getting into the public schools who were more academic, and the schools for the blind were receiving more of the students who were not academic. So the kids that were graduating from the school for the blind about the same time, I were not always, you know, job ready. They weren't going to do much afterwards. And so my impression at that time was that that's what happens when you go to the school for the blind, not understanding the dynamics that the whole education system was going through and so on. But I look back at some of these people that I've researched, and they talk about how in the farming communities, which many of them came from, because our communities were fairly small, they went to the School of the blind, and they they fit in. They had they had peers at their level. Everything was in enough format. They could read mostly, or it the accommodations were being made for them. They competed in sports. They got involved in some of the community activities in the towns where the schools for the blind were so that they were connected with the community, and they seem to have not all of them. Of course, you you don't always want to tire everybody with the same brush, so to speak, but you don't you see more of a population of kids who had more self confidence, who had more of an idea of what they were going to do as a blind person after leaving the school, as opposed to the public school kids who were exposed to a lot of things, but if they didn't get in with the group, if they didn't get a chance to really participate if they were just sitting on the sidelines. They left the public school system, and they didn't go to college, necessarily. They didn't go to work, they went back to the family home. So when I graduated from high school, I thought a public school education was the best thing for a blind child. I'm not at that time, but I'm not so sure that that's really the case. I think you have to look at the child, the family situation, the school situation. Is the public school gonna provide a good, positive, supportive, learning structure and of course, always happen.   Michael Hingson ** 09:05 Of course, yeah, it still doesn't always happen, although, of course, there is a lot more material and there are a lot of tools available now that even when you and I graduated, were not available and students should be able to get a better public education, but the other part about it is the whole social acceptance and like you, I think I was really mostly on the sidelines. I was active in the science club and a couple things, but really not involved in a lot of the social organization of the schools, and that went all the way through high school, but I did at least have access to Braille books and Braille material, and I had parents who were vehemently in favor of me working to be a. A good student in the school, and they gave me every opportunity that I could. And outside of school, I was in the boy scouts, and so I did have other activities, and again, that was encouraged, and I was very fortunate for the most part. We dealt with scout leaders who encouraged it as well, probably because they had conversations from my parents, or with my parents, who said, look and and gave them an education so but it worked out pretty well. My dad was involved in Scouting as well. But I hear what you're saying, and I think that the schools for the blind, as near as I can tell today, have receded even further and are not really as much focused on the academics of students who are blind, but now they're dealing with multi handicap situations and other things that make it even more of a challenge for them.   Peggy Chong ** 10:50 Yeah, but I do think that you're right. Parents make a big difference. Family Support makes a huge difference. Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 10:59 yeah. Yeah. And the parents really do make all the difference, if they're willing to, as I describe it, be risk takers in that they let us explore, they let us do things. I'm sure they monitor us, but they allowed us to explore. They allowed us to learn about the world, and they knew instinctively that's what they needed to do, just like they would do it with any other kid.   Peggy Chong ** 11:26 Yeah, my parents let us ride bicycles. Yep, which I know that my mother, she did not feel confident enough to ride a bicycle, but as kids, wanted to and and she was, she was gonna just let it happen. And we had a few bike accidents. But, yeah, so does my sighted sister,   Michael Hingson ** 11:49 yeah. I mean, everybody does. So there's nothing, nothing new there. And eventually we bought a tandem bike so my brother and I could deliver newspapers together, and then that worked out pretty well, but I had my own bike and rode it around the neighborhood, wrote it to school for the first three years, and then transferred to a school across town, because there was a resource teacher at who was based at that school, and the resource teacher was the teacher who would work with the blind kids, so I had a period with her every day. And I learned braille in kindergarten in Chicago, but after Chicago, I didn't have access to it for three years, so I had to relearn it, which I did. But you know, things happen. Yeah, they do. So what'd you do after high school?   Peggy Chong ** 12:45 Well, after high school, I met this guy and got married. I thought about going to college, but I was I wasn't quite ready for college. I didn't really think that I was academically ready, so I went to work, and worked as a librarian assistant for two years, and then when our daughter came along, then I quit, became a stay at home mom, and got active in the National Federation of the Blind. I got active in tiny tots, you know, because my daughter went to tiny tots and US mom sat around and exchanged coupons and everything like that. While they were in there.   Michael Hingson ** 13:27 Did you exchange your share of coupons? Oh, yeah,   Peggy Chong ** 13:31 I tried to call my dog food coupons for the things that I needed, like milk or diapers or whatever. And   Michael Hingson ** 13:39 we should say that this guy you got married to, I'm sorry you have to put up with him all these years, but, but his name is Curtis Chung and Curtis has also appeared on unstoppable mindset, but we probably have to get him back on too, because there's lots to discuss.   Peggy Chong ** 13:55 Yeah, we were just discussing actually riding bikes when he was a kid, because his father let him explore and get hurt. His mother was not inclined to do that, and so his dad took a lot of heat, because Curtis would ride around on his three wheeler and crash into the wall or roll out in the street or whatever, but   Michael Hingson ** 14:21 Curtis has to learn to listen.   Peggy Chong ** 14:24 I don't think that's gonna happen.   Michael Hingson ** 14:29 He's not nearby, is he? Oh,   Peggy Chong ** 14:35 catch it on the podcast. Oh, he   Michael Hingson ** 14:36 will. But, but still, but, but even so, he did get to explore, which is, you know, what's really important? And I think that the blind people who have the most confidence or who are the most outgoing are the ones who were really given those opportunities by their parents. I believe. So, yeah, sure. So you didn't go to college, you You did other things, which is cool, and exchanged coupons. I've never been much of a coupon collector, and even with online coupons, I don't do nearly as much of that as I probably should.   Peggy Chong ** 15:14 Well, I don't do that anymore either,   Michael Hingson ** 15:15 but Instacart is our friend. Yeah, that's true. I did   Peggy Chong ** 15:19 go back to college for a while, and it actually was a really big boost in my self esteem, because I went back to college thinking, I've got to start over. Got to start from scratch. And so I took the basic courses that you take when you're a freshman, and I aced them, and I was, I was quite surprised at myself, so it gave me, it gave me a lot more confidence in myself to go ahead and try new things. I got out more into the community, joined the neighborhood group. I wrote letters, wrote articles for newsletters, and really start to come into myself, probably when my daughter was about 10.   Michael Hingson ** 16:10 And she's surprised how much you've learned over the years, right?   Peggy Chong ** 16:13 Well, I was pretty dumb there between her 18th and 21st year, but I got pretty smart after that. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. And since she's 45 now, you know, I've been smart for a while. What a relief. No kidding, I feel very lucky when I look at the relationships that I read about in all these families that I research, and the dynamics of the families and how kids don't get along, and they never spoke to their parents after they were 22 or whatever. And I think, gee, you know, I got my fighting with my daughter all done by the time she was 21 now we're friends, so that's good,   Michael Hingson ** 16:52 yeah, which works out. So when did you start getting interested in this whole business of researching blind ancestors and learning about the history of blind people.   Peggy Chong ** 17:05 Well, that actually started in my 20s. The NFB of Minnesota owned a home for the blind, and we decided that it was it was past its time. We did not need segregated housing for blind people, so we were going to sell the property. That meant you had to clean out the building. And there was a lot of stuff in there, and they had kept the National Federation of the Blind of Minnesota, started as the Minnesota State organization of the blind, and in 1920 so they had some correspondence going back to 1919 and they kept everything. I mean, it was really cool. I was given the job of going through all of the boxes and file cabinets and getting rid of stuff, because we were going from this three story building to 1000 square feet office, and has to all fit, so everything had to go into one file cabinet, and I'm and they gave me the job because I had grown up in The blank community, and as a kid, I had known the people from North Dakota and Minnesota who were the blind newspaper dealers, the blind rug weavers, the blind door to door salesmen, the blind janitors. And they thought I would recognize people more than the rest of them would. So I'm going through stuff and pitching and pitching and pitching all this stuff into the trash. Every so often I stopped to read something, and one of the letters that I read was from the early 20s, from one of the board members to another one, describing their meeting with our blind state congressman, our blind US congressman, excuse me, and of course, they don't tell who it is. I didn't know there was a blind congressman, so I put that aside, and I started to pay more and more attention, so that blind Congressman became my first, what I call ancestor. I kept information that I had found here and there, kept those letters and put them in a box, and I went after who, what turned out to be Thomas David Shaw, who was the blind congressman who was working on a bill called the Robbins bill that would have been kind of a rehabilitation bill, putting some things together that would be similar to what our Randolph Shepherd vendor program is today. That bill didn't go anywhere. Um. But he then became a US senator, and he was one of two blind senators in the US Senate in the 1930s the other being Thomas prior gore. Thomas Shaw was killed by a hit and run driver just before Christmas of 1935 and he's a great ancestor to start with, because he had all this mystery around him, and you just had to know. So the driver of the car got out after he driven about a half a block and yelled back, well, he shouldn't have been in the street anyway. Now he was with his cited aid him one of his legislative aides, who was also hit and seriously hurt but but did survive that aid wrote a book about 20 some years later, as did the daughter of a newspaper man from Minneapolis who was killed in the very same way two weeks before Shaw was killed, and that newspaper reporter moved into this apartment a couple of weeks before he was hit by a car out of Thomas Shaw's house in Minneapolis because he was being harassed for the article He was working on about the mafia infiltrating the Democratic Party, and Shaw was helping him with this article. And so Shaw's family believed, as did the daughter who wrote the book about her dad, the reporter, as did the person who was with him that day, they all said that, you know, it was a he was deliberately hit, a man who hit him, he was deliberately hit because, if you talk to his grandson or his daughter in law, that they they believe it was a contract hit. But the man who hit him, who was unemployed. This was, you know, the middle of the Depression. He was unemployed, and all of a sudden, couple of years later, he has a brand new house that's paid for. He has no job. His children are in private school. They go on to college. He has no job. Where'd the money come from? Everybody wanted to know, and it was so he was somebody who I researched a lot, and that's before computers, and that was before you had an opportunity to go online, and before things were digitized. So you had to always go someplace and have somebody look it up for you. And a lot of times I would call and I would say, Well, can you read it to me over the phone? I didn't tell them I couldn't read it myself. I just asked them to read it. And I was surprised how many times people did read it, read articles to me, read them, the collection information to me, and so on. So he was my first ancestor. And because he was probably somebody I researched for good 30 years, I kind of got that in my blood, and then in about 2000 I decided I was going to do my family tree ancestry.com. Had just gotten started, and I thought, well, you know, why not? Keeps me busy for the winter. That is, it's it is worse addiction than chocolate or coke. I am here to tell you. I have been a subscriber of ancestor.com for a long time, and by and large, things are fairly accessible with that, unless you want to read the original document, because things were mostly handwritten, and these are scanned images, pictures of the originals and so on. But I'm surprised how many people are transcribing for their family trees, the information, the articles, the pieces from the books. So sometimes I get into things and it's already transcribed for me, I'm really kind of impressed   Michael Hingson ** 24:17 that works out very well.   Peggy Chong ** 24:18 I think so. So I was one who didn't like history in school because it didn't apply to me. And the few things that I had saved from Minnesota, you know, that applied to me because that was an organization I belonged to, and some of the people I had known. So I started with some of them because it applied to me. But once I really got into the family history, I just really got the bug. And when I would stall out on my family, I'd reach into now this collection that was more than a box or two of stuff that I have been collecting. And. Say, Well, I wonder what I can find about this person. Wonder what I can find about that person. And I took all these classes on how to research through the genealogical societies, several of them, and because it was when computers were not really used for genealogical research, they gave me a lot of information on the techniques that they use so they don't have to travel. And I used all of those techniques, and a lot of them are very great techniques that a blind person can use because for a $15 donation to this Genealogical Society, or this History Society, or this public library, there's some volunteer that's just willing to dig into something and find out what it is I want to know, and then they'll send me a nice email back, or a bunch of papers in the mail that I'll have to scan. But it's been really interesting to find out how easy it has been to dig into a lot of these old documents with the help of other people who have no idea that I'm blind at all,   Michael Hingson ** 26:13 which, which is, of course, part of the issue. They don't even know you're blind.   Peggy Chong ** 26:18 No, they have no clue. But they would do that for someone else. Yeah? So, yeah, I just take advantage of the opportunities that are already there and maximize them to my benefit.   Michael Hingson ** 26:31 So what are some of the early stories that you found that really fascinated you and that you found interesting that you've published?   Peggy Chong ** 26:41 Well, the one that just came out this month about Helen may Martin, the blind and deaf woman who was a concert pianist, is a fascinating story to me. And here's another example of this. Is a blind and deaf person who was born in 1895 the schools for the blind didn't take a blind and deaf student, and the schools for the deaf didn't take a deaf and blind student. In many parts of the country to get in as a deaf blind student, you either had to have a lot of money, or there just happened to have, happened to be somebody who was donating extra money at the time. You just happened to have a teacher that was skilled in working with one on one with a deafblind student. So Helen may didn't have that. She was born in Nebraska. The Nebraska school for the blind and deaf didn't want or the Kansas School for the blind and deaf didn't one of the Missouri School for the Blind in the School for the Deaf didn't want her, so her mother decided Helen is going to grow up and she is going to be the best of whatever she can be.   Michael Hingson ** 27:53 There's mom again. There's the family again. Well, mom   Peggy Chong ** 27:56 was a music teacher. Dad was a salesman who was on the road a lot, but he was also musically inclined, and they had a piano in the house. Mom taught music, and she kept Helen with her a lot. And Helen thought this was a game on the piano the keys and doing it, so she wanted to learn the game too. Mom, had her put her hand on the piano to feel the vibrations. Later on, it was the heel of her foot to feel the vibrations and how she would press the key harder and the vibrations of the piano were more full. When Helen started to really learn how to play the pieces, her mother would teach her with one hand, then the other, and they would put it together. And then her mother started to explain musical notes by using beans. A whole note was one bean. A half a note was two Beans. Quarter note was four beans. And explained how that worked to Helen. Then they would play these pieces, and the mother would say, Well, this is a song about the flowers, or this is a song about someone's life. And so Helen needed to know the story, and then the music had feeling her emotions. She understood the music better, and she learned to play with feeling as well. And when she was about 18, she wrote to the schools for the blind, asking again to have somebody come and teach her. Now, her mother was a smart woman. She knew there were magazines for the blind, and so she wrote and got everything she could find. Well, somewhere in New York point, somewhere in Braille,   Michael Hingson ** 29:56 Moon type and all of this. Hmm. And   Peggy Chong ** 30:01 so Helen learned several different ways to read. Her mother learned some of it and taught Helen. And then Helen, through reading these magazines, learned to read much better.   Michael Hingson ** 30:16 Let me stop you for a second, because I think it's important that listeners understand. You know, Braille was developed by Louis Braille in 1824, but it was quite a while before Braille itself was adopted. And one of the things that a lot of schools and people did early on, if you will, was assume that blind students could learn to feel raised regular characters, and then when they discovered that wasn't working as well as it could, other kind of languages were developed. Says Peggy said New York point and I said Moon type, which are two different languages, if you will, of raised characters that are somewhat different from Braille than it was a while before people realized finally that there were advantages to what Braille offered, because it was a very simple in a sense, dot configuration, but people could learn to read it and learn to read it well and read fast with it.   Peggy Chong ** 31:18 New York point was two dots high and four dots wide, right. And the New York point was started in New York, of course, with the schools there, Perkins, the Perkins School for the Blind, which began in the 1930 in the 1830s used the raise print system. They had their own printing press and everything. So they had all of the equipment to print their own books. Therefore they were invested in more ways than one into that raised system. The first school that actually taught Braille in this country was the Missouri School for the Blind in 1860 so Braille didn't quite catch on here. New York point had caught on, and what had spread across, especially New England and the East Coast, far more than Braille, the Braille did, which is why the Matilda Ziegler, what magazine was in Braille. Some of the religious magazines were Matilda Ziegler, I'm sorry, was in New York point at first, before it went into Braille. So   Michael Hingson ** 32:33 why do you think Braille finally caught on?   Peggy Chong ** 32:36 Well, it had a lot to do with money, but it also had to do with the fact that, you know, the schools for the blind, up until probably about the 1860s did more lecture and answer, question and answer, and that's how you learn they're just they didn't have either the money or the printing press or the access to actual tactile books for the kids. So the teachers themselves would lecture, and they would memorize and recite a lot more than than the sighted children did in the schools, although my dad tells stories about how they didn't have school a lot of school books, either in his school when he was growing up. I don't know, maybe that wasn't so different. But when Helen was reading things, she was getting some magazines from France, because Europe, England had publications in braille, and they would they could be received here in the United States. So her mother signed her up for those signed her up for newsletters coming out of California. California was quite a literate state in that the school for the blind, the school in Berkeley, the Institute for the Blind, they all had printing presses so that they could manufacture their books and share them. So Ohio was another place that her mother got her books Helen's books from as well. So she got all this material encouraged Helen to read and read and read, and she also taught Helen to type at the age of six, because her mother knew how to type. So her mother taught her how to type again. It was kind of a game. The keyboard was a game, and she learned to type quite well, so she kept a diary in print, and she wrote articles her mother would read to her, and they developed, at first, their own sign language, and then her mother and her sister. Her learned sign language, and they would spell into Helen's hand. Now, her dad died when she was about 1220, her sister was about 12 at the time, and so the mother had to go back to work. She became a seamstress. She had her own shop. She sewed dresses for people in town, and Helen learned how to do that. Helen had learned how to cook. She was constantly by her mother's side, so when her mother went to work, she was in charge of the house. Her mother got her classes at conservatories of music. Her mother went with her and translated into Helen's hand what was being said for the class. She never graduated from a conservatory, but because of her exposure, people were like this. She's deaf and she's blind and she's playing the piano. This is so amazing. She plays it with feeling. And so she would get a little concert here, and a little concert there. And pretty soon it expanded, and her mother thought, well, let's see where it goes, you know? So she started promoting her daughter, getting her all these concerts. There were all these professionals musicians, educators, even from the schools for the blind, who would come and watch Helen perform, because they just couldn't believe a deafblind person could do this. And when Helen would travel, she had the same experience. Her mother would send ahead all this information about Helen may Martin, the deafblind piano pianist who is going to perform, and there would be the announcement in the paper. But many times, the reporters didn't believe that Helen was deafblind, so they didn't put the article in. They would wait till after the performance, and then there would be the article about Ellen Mae Martin, and I went to see her, and she really is deaf and she really is blind, and she plays beautifully. Ripley's, believe it or not, had a program on the radio. He also had a Ripley's, believe it or not, theater in New York, and he sent someone out to check out Helen and see if she really was a deafblind pianist. And discovered that she was, and he brought her on her show. She was well received in New York, and got a multi week contract to perform at his, believe it or not, theater in New York. So she was in New York for quite a while, several months, performing for many concerts and many theaters in New York. Helen died in 1947 so she was like about 5252 years old, so she wasn't really that old. And her sister died in 1939 who was much younger than she was. So Mrs. Martin ended up out living all of her children, neither of Helen or her sister ever married or had children. So her mother ended up, not in poverty, but she certainly was not a wealthy woman when she passed away. But before she passed away, she supposedly gave all of Helen's diaries to some historical society, of which no one can find, which I'm hoping they're in a back box behind the furnace somewhere, and someday they'll be unearthed, because that would be fascinating, the little bits of her journal that were recorded in newspapers. She wrote very well. She had a very strong vocabulary. Some people equate deaf people with having a smaller vocabulary. That was certainly not the case with Helen, and Helen has been somebody that has really touched a lot of people. When you think about what you can and cannot do, nobody told Helen she couldn't. Nobody said, you know, as a deaf person, probably the piano is not something you should try to take up. But encouraged her because she had an interest, and worked with Helen's interests, and worked with what Helen knew, and her mother did that and encouraged her, made sure she was literate because she was a lot older when she went to school, really, when she went to school, she. Took about five years to complete the academic courses at the School for the Blind, and she did get a certificate of graduation she was older than the rest of the students. Her mother had blind pianists come and work with Helen while Helen was growing up, so she had music teachers, and she found some deaf students, graduates from the schools for the deaf, from other states, sometimes Kansas, who would come and work with the family. That's how they learn sign languages. So Helen's mother was extremely important with making Helen who she was I wonder   Michael Hingson ** 40:40 if she ever met Helen Keller. Yes, she did.   Peggy Chong ** 40:44 They both met when they were adults. Helen may Martin had written to Helen Keller, and Helen Keller had heard about the blind woman who was the pianist, the blind and deaf woman. So when Helen Keller went on one of her tours. She went to Nebraska, and Helen and her mother went and stayed with a relative and got an audience with Helen Keller. The Of course, Helen Keller was always followed by reporters, and so they reported on the meeting of the two Helens, and they called Helen may Martin, the second Helen Keller, well, Helen Keller was not happy with that. She said, Are you kidding? She is not the second Helen Keller, she has far exceeded everything I could have ever done.   Michael Hingson ** 41:38 I can see her say that, yes, it   Peggy Chong ** 41:40 was just, it was really wonderful. She scolded the reporter, and that reporter didn't report on the scolding, but another reporter reported on Helen Keller scolding the reporter for saying that she was the second. Helen Keller, and don't you call her at the second? Helen Keller, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 41:59 you know, it's interesting that you, you clearly worked at this pretty hard and found a lot of information about her, even so. And you're you're right. It would be nice to find her journals and the other things, and I bet you will at some point, they're somewhere.   Peggy Chong ** 42:15 I think so I think they're somewhere.   Michael Hingson ** 42:20 Now I have to go back to a story that you talked about a little bit on our first unstoppable mindset episode, because you said something here that brought it up, and that is that Helen may Martin learn to type, tell us about the history of the typewriter. Will you? Oh, I love to I know it's a great story.   Peggy Chong ** 42:42 When I go to talk to the students who are at agencies for the blind learning to be blind people when they're in their adjustment to blindness, training, a lot of them, oh, talk about how difficult the computer is because it's so difficult you can't see the keys. And I love to tell the story of the invention of the typewriter, because it was an invention for blind people. And we have forgotten that as a society, the typewriter was the invention of a man who was overly friendly with this Countess, married to this count. The Count wasn't attentive enough for the Countess, so she had to find other interests, friends, but they would write back and forth. Now the problem was the ladies in waiting who wrote the letters to her friend, her special friend, showed them to the count, and that just, you know, wasn't a good thing. So, and they also didn't get delivered either, because if the count didn't like it, he had the letters tried, so he invented this device where she could type out the letters and then send them to him without having a ladies maid between them. And it caught on the schools for the blind in New York, especially the schools for the blind taught typing at the school and their students by the late 1880s and early 1890s were going to state fairs and the World's Fair demonstrating the typewriter for the Remington company as something that really would help the gentlemen who were secretaries in the office. Lady secretaries were not quite yet the thing and   Michael Hingson ** 44:42 would have helped Bob Cratchit Anyway, go ahead,   Peggy Chong ** 44:46 you never know. Do you humbug? I love that story. Yeah, but yes. So their students graduated, were really good typists and. They saw to him that they got put into insurance companies, law firms, and highlighted their students as typists. And the typewriter was also catching on really well in the business community, because now you didn't have to decipher some of that handwriting. And believe me, that handwriting that still exists from back then is very difficult, always doing to figure out just   Michael Hingson ** 45:27 handwriting of old days or days of your that is hard to understand. So I'm told,   Peggy Chong ** 45:33 No, it's today's but yes, well, and they're actually teaching handwriting again in school. A little side note is that I have a lot of volunteers that have been transcribing documents for me from about 1915 to about 1980 from the collection of old files at the Colorado Center for the Blind that we unearthed and we found we could not use high school students and some younger college students because they couldn't read handwriting. We had to, we had to go into the retirement communities to find our volunteers who were very good, by the way. But anyway, so the typewriter has was really the communication material, tool that was used by so many blind people for a long time, and I think we got away from that now, where we have to have special keyboards for the blind. Some places are really insistent on that. Some blind people are insistent on that when you were meant not to look at the keys. That's why the two little bumps on the F and the H are there is so that you could orient yourself and continue typing looking at the paper. The sighted ladies would look at the paper and type their material and not have to look at their keys. So something that we have forgotten, and you know, like the scanner, is, you know, a product that was originally designed for blind people. We forgotten that, I think, in our society as well. But I like the inventions that blind people have contributed, such as cruise control. That was an invention by a blind man to make the cars in his lot stand out from the other car dealers in his small town. There was a man in Minnesota who had lost his hand as well as his eyesight and part of his hearing. He went to the summer programs for adult blind people at the School for the Blind in the 19 late 20s, early 30s. There were no programs for adult blind in the in the state, really at that point, unless you wanted to make brooms. They suggested that he become a piano tuner. And he said, Well, you know, I really wasn't very musical when I had my sight and my hearing, I don't really see how I can be a piano tuner if I can't hear it and I only have one hand. So what he got out of those summer programs, though, was he met other blind people who gave him job leads, and they told him to go to this broom factory in Minneapolis, because it was owned by a blind guy. And he employed some blind guys and sighted guys as well. So he went up there, and this is during the Depression, and the guy said, you know, I really love to help you. I don't need anybody in the factory. I have all the blind salesmen. Most of his salesmen were blind. I have all the salesmen that I can use for this area, but you know, if you want to branch out and head out to like, say, North Dakota or South Dakota, I'd be glad to hire you. And probably thought he'd never heard from the guy again, but the guy came back and says, Well, I found another guy. He doesn't have a job, he doesn't have a home, but he's got a pickup. So the two of them bought as many brooms as they could put into the pickup, and they headed out. Sold all the brooms. They came back. The two men, in a couple of years, earned enough money where they both bought property, and this guy, he bought the property, and what we would call today flipped. It bought a duplex and got renters in. It continued to sell brooms until he really became pretty handy at flipping houses, buying and selling property. So he got kind of tired, though, because, you know, he's now, like, close to 50 years old. Wild, and he has to change the storm windows on the house in Minnesota. Have to put on the screens in the summer and the storms in the winter. And he's climbing up the ladder. He's only got one hand trying to change the windows on the second story. And thought, There has got to be a better way to do this. I really don't want to keep climbing up this ladder. So I talked to this other guy, a blind guy, who was a furniture builder, had his own furniture shop. And he told the guy, this is my idea. I want to design a window where it comes in on a hinge, and then I can just reach in, pull in the storm, clean it, put it back, and they invented this window. He built a few of them on his own, demonstrated that it worked, put it in his house. This window company came along, bought the patent and the blank, I never worked again. He didn't have to work again. The neat thing though, was when he went blind, his wife had passed away a couple of years before, and he became very depressed, lost his job, lost his house that he had paid for his relatives, and the county came and took his three children away. When he sold his patent, he got two of his children back. His oldest child was now in the service and serving in World War Two. But he got his children back. He provided a home for his mother. He actually remarried again, you know, a man who just came back from nothing, and then out of his own need, created this window that many houses in the Midwest, the older houses built in the late 40s and 50s, have those windows that you pull in on a hinge and open up, clean them and close them   Michael Hingson ** 52:03 back out. Now, of course, we have dual pane windows and other things like that. But, yeah, yeah, so, so who invented the scanner?   Peggy Chong ** 52:12 Well, that was Ray Kurzweil. I   Michael Hingson ** 52:14 just wanted to see if you'd say that it's interesting. Kurzweil   Peggy Chong ** 52:19 is an interesting guy, you know, he is still alive and still very concerned about blind people, and active in the blind community, providing funds for scholarships and so on. We correspond, yeah, and he had this wonderful idea in the 70s to provide a scanner that would read to the blind, and it was as huge. I mean, it was bigger than my washing machine.   Michael Hingson ** 52:48 Yeah, the whole thing weighed 400 pounds, not too gosh, yeah,   Peggy Chong ** 52:51 the library, the public library in Minneapolis, bought one. Unfortunately, not a lot of people used it because they locked it up because they were afraid it was going to get broken.   Michael Hingson ** 53:03 That makes sense somehow. Yeah, right. It's, it's interesting, though, also to try to describe how the scanner worked, because you, you can't really say it took a picture like you would do today with a phone. No, because the way it worked was there was a piece of technology called a charge couple device. Won't go into the theory of that, but basically, the scanner would move up and down the page, like an inch at a time, scanning across, then dropping down, scanning back, dropping down, and so on, building up an image that took almost a minute to do. And then the computer would take probably anywhere from depending on the complexity, 20 seconds, to 30 or 45 seconds, to process it. And then it would read out loud.   Peggy Chong ** 53:52 But it worked, and you had access to that book right, and   Michael Hingson ** 53:58 you had access to that book right away, and it worked. And of course, it did get better over time. And then Ray was also very much involved in unlimited vocabulary, voice input and other things. So you mentioned two blind senators. Were there any other blind national politicians.   Peggy Chong ** 54:22 There were five blind congressmen all together. There was Thomas Shaw and there was Matthew Dunn. He served from 1935 to 1940 he was the last of any of our national representatives as blind people. And Matthew Dunn came from Pennsylvania. He was an interesting person because he did really he was interested in politics, but it was not what he wanted as a career, but he did it because he was a part of the. The Pennsylvania Association for the Blind, which was one of the original affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind. They were very concerned that the welfare system in the country was going federal, which was a good thing and a bad thing, a good thing if it was done right, a bad thing if it was not. And they knew from just Pennsylvania alone, how a charity system, a welfare system, a poor house system, they had all these different types of programs to serve blind people, as far as financial was concerned, and they had many situations in their state where if you lived on one side of the street as a blind person, you could get maybe $8 a month if you lived on the Other side, maybe only two, because you crossed a county line or you crossed out of the sea. And so they wanted to have some input on a federal level to all this, these pieces of legislation, Social Security, the rehabilitation legislation that was being bandied about, they wanted to have some input into it, to make sure that it wasn't a charity, that it wasn't for the poor, that it was something that would make you have A step up, that you could get out of poverty, that you wouldn't be stuck there, that you would have an opportunity to get a job, that you would have an opportunity to go to school and still get some financial support, that you could own your own home and maybe still get some financial support, because if you were a blind person in Pennsylvania, in some parts of the state, and you went blind at, say, 40 years old, your house was paid for. You had to sell that house or that asset in order to get financial support. And they wanted people to have a right to protect what they have so they can get a step up and get back to work. And Matthew Dunn was sent there by the blind people, and he campaigned on those issues, about wanting to go to Washington to make sure that the new laws regarding social security rehabilitation would provide people an opportunity to progress, rather than stay at home, remain in poor farms, remain in nursing homes. So he was, it was an interesting sort   Michael Hingson ** 58:01 and it's a battle that still goes on today. For   Peggy Chong ** 58:06 you know, as much as we look at history, you know, if you don't know your history, you're bound to repeat it. And you just look at things, and they just cycle through and cycle through. I remember in the 1920 minutes of the NFB of Minnesota. Back then, it was called the Minnesota State organization the blind. There were three resolutions that were just about the same as three of the resolutions at the 1995 convention. We haven't gone very far have we   Michael Hingson ** 58:40 not in some ways, you know, we have been doing this mostly an hour. But I can't end this without saying two things. One, we'll have to do another one, but, but the other one is, tell me a little bit about your recent trip to Washington. That had to be fascinating. It was   Peggy Chong ** 58:59 fascinating. I went to Washington knowing very little. What I thought I knew turned out not to be what I should have known. I came across a newspaper article about, oh, four years five years ago, five years ago, I guess, now, about a blind guy, a broom maker, who had gotten an award from the Harmon Foundation, and I couldn't understand why he got the award, because it didn't really say why he got the award. He just got an award. Well, I didn't find out much about the broom maker, so I decided to look in the Harmon Foundation, and what I had learned online was that the Harmon Foundation had given a lot of support, financial awards, loans to the black community who were into art. And I couldn't figure out how this broom maker, this white guy, Bloom. Broom maker fit in, and there was nothing online about it, until I got into the Library of Congress and found the Harmon foundation collection. And I looked at that and went, Oh my gosh, there must be a lot of data there, because the Harmon foundation collection goes from 1913 to 1965 there's 122 boxes. 14 of them are for this one program. Now there's about, oh, maybe 20, 3040, programs that the Harmon Foundation also has in this collection, none of them have that many boxes connected with it. So I thought I had hit a gold mine, and then way I did just not what I anticipated. The first two days, I spent 11 days in the Library of Congress. The first two days, I took the boxes chronologically and could not figure out what the heck was going on, because it none of it made sense. None of it fit into the stuff I knew about the program and the strangest stuff were coming up. People were writing on behalf of a school for the blind, or a public school area wanting a playground for the School for the Blind, and I'm thinking now in an awards a literary award program, why would you write and ask that? And then there were all these letters from blind people wanting to go to college and asking for a loan. And again, I thought, what? That just doesn't fit. So it took me till the third day before I got an understanding of exactly what was going on the Harmon foundation. William Harmon was the chair. He decided in 1927 he wanted a new program that would provide awards to blind people, much like their literary program that was providing scholarships for college students. They had a essay contest for farmers down in the south, and they would award them money to beautify their their property. They also had this program once I saw their newsletters where they had provided within like a five year period, over 50 playgrounds to schools or Communities for Children. And so it's starting to dawn on me that there's this group of people who've done their research on the Harmon Foundation, and there's a group of people that haven't done their research. And then there's what's going on with the award the Harmon foundation knew they had to reach out to the blind community. Part of their structure, when they were doing new awards, and they did many, was to reach out, put an advisory committee together with sewn from the Harmon foundation and those in that community in which they were trying to enhance so they wanted to reach out to the blind community. They found the Matilda Ziegler magazine, and they had the editor as one of their advisory committees, and they reached out to the American Foundation for the Blind, and ended up with a few of their representatives on that advisory committee, their normal process, the Harmon Foundation's normal process was then to take this advisory committee and then reach down into the community and have all these nominators who would take the applications for the awards and seek out applicants. Get the applications filled out, get the supporting documents filled out. For example, in their their farm and land beautification, one photographs needed to be taken sometimes, or they needed to get the names of some of the plants they were using. Sometimes, fruits and vegetables were sent to the Harmon foundation to show, hey, look how good my garden went, that kind of thing. So the nominators were to make sure that all of that was completed before the application was then sent in. That didn't work the application process. The Harmon Foundation put the application together, much like their other programs, and sent it to the advisory committee, and there were about 12 different versions of it after I went to the advisory committee in the Harmon. Original version that they had asked for award. They were going to give out 100 awards in total, and there were about eight categories, and they were going to have an award for the person who submits this great work of literary work, they were going to have an award for people who wrote essays about how they have made a difference in their life, how they made a difference in other people's lives, as blind people, and especially in that one, there's a little sub noted, and it says, when it's talking about what you might include in the essay, which is usually only about a paragraph it mentioned, and talk about how, as you progressed, your posture got better, your became more involved in the community. Well, the advisory committee ended up pulling all of that out. So the final application had a page of, is this person neat? Is this person polite? What is the posture of this person? All these personal things that when the blind people who were reading the Matilda Ziegler magazine, because Matilda Ziegler put all this information about the awards, they did a lot of promotion about the awards. They sent in essays from their previous editions of their Matilda magazine to the Harmon foundation to say these are the kind of essays that blind people can write, and they can tell you about how they have made a difference in their lives. They've made a success of this career. They have been instrumental in building their community school or their community church. But the Matilda Ziegler magazine people got the application and filled out what they thought was important, the the references and so on. And they get to all this stuff about their personal behavior, and one lady writes in and says, you know, I'm submitting my essay, but I'm not going to fill out these pieces because I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not my essay should be, should be judged on that. So I'm, I'm getting the drift here that the people that were sending in essays were not completing their application. The deadline the applications were sent out on April 15 of 1928 the deadline was August 15 of 1928 AFB provided a list of all of the organizations, the mailing list of all the names, organizations, schools, workshops for the blind, and the Harmon foundation sent out letters asking all of their these agency people to be the nominators. The AFB did not do that. They didn't write separate cover, hey, we're participating in this Harmon Foundation award, and we want you to support this award, be a nominator, and we want you to help fill out these applications and send them back so these principals at the schools for the blind or in the public schools who oversaw the program for public schools or the director of a workshop,   Peggy Chong ** 1:08:51 they they would either totally ignore it, or they would write back, well, sure, I'll be a nominator. I don't know what it involves, but you can use my name. So come August 15, the Harmon foundation doesn't have enough accepted applications to fill the awards, so they they're contacting AFB and Matilda Ziegler, what do we do? They extend the award for children and for been blind for two years. How has how have you progressed in two years to November 1, they still don't get enough because what happened is, especially with a lot of these schools, they saw it as a charity award, not a literary award. And so they would send the application in, partially filled out, and say, this student deserves this award because they came to the school and they only had one set of clothing, and we have been needing to support the student, or you need to gi

What separates true intelligence from mere mimicry? In this episode of Your AI Injection, host Deep Dhillon chats with Lucas Hendrich, CTO of the Forte Group, into the fascinating future of Artificial General Intelligence. Together, the two explore the critical role of 'intent' in the quest for true machine intelligence. Lucas shares his  insights on what it would take for AI to move beyond predictive algorithms toward authentic, independent thought, drawing on his early experiences working with AI visionary Ray Kurzweil. The two also discuss the practical challenges of implementing AI in business, the evolution of data architecture, and the ethical and operational guardrails needed as we inch closer to a new era in machine intelligence. Learn more about Lucas here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucashendrich/and the Forte Group here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/fortegroup/Check out some of our related content:Expert Tips for AI Implementation and Data Strategy with Paul LewisAI Copyright Regulation: Navigating Legal Challenges and Ethical DilemmasEmbracing AI in Business: Navigating Misconceptions and Implementation Hurdles with Elise Oras

Is your law practice ready to embrace the future with artificial intelligence, or will it be left behind? On this episode of Great Practice, Great Life, join Steve as he tackles the pressing challenges and remarkable opportunities AI presents in the legal field. We'll navigate the complexities of integrating AI, ensuring it aligns with your professional values and ethical standards. Discover how AI can transform your practice by increasing efficiency and reducing costs, ultimately allowing you to serve your clients better and secure a competitive edge in a rapidly evolving industry. Steve draws inspiration from futurist Ray Kurzweil's predictions and explores the implications of AI reaching human-level intelligence by 2029. Steve delves into the ethical and societal considerations that arise as we approach the singularity in 2045, where humans and AI are expected to merge. Through personal anecdotes and real-world examples, he illustrates the potential of AI to revolutionize areas such as medical advancements and legal practice, underscoring the importance of thoughtful integration and understanding. Strategic AI implementation is crucial as law firms adapt to new business models and enhance client services. From innovative tools like Spellbook that streamline legal tasks to AI-driven marketing and training solutions, we explore practical ways to incorporate AI into your practice. Steve emphasizes the need for regulation and strategic planning, addressing the global implications of AI's rapid advancement. By embracing AI thoughtfully, you can position your practice for growth, ensuring it remains ethical, efficient, and ready for the future. In this episode, you will hear: The potential of AI in legal practice and its integration with ethical standards Ray Kurzweil's predictions on AI achieving human-level intelligence by 2029 and merging with humans by 2045 Strategic AI implementation to optimize business models and enhance client services in law firms Challenges for law practices reliant on billable hours due to AI's efficiency in reducing costs Importance of AI regulation and ethical integration in the legal field Encouragement for legal professionals to adopt an AI mindset and plan for an AI-driven future Emphasis on the rapid pace of AI advancements and their societal implications Follow and Review: We'd love for you to follow us if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. If there's a topic you would like us to cover on an upcoming episode, please email us at steve.riley@atticusadvantage.com. Supporting Resources: Grow Your Practice with AI: atticusadvantage.mykajabi.com/the-power-of-AI-workshop Download: Elevating Marketing Strategies for Law Firms with ChatGPT https://atticusadvantage.mykajabi.com/law-firm-chatgpt  How to Take Advantage of The AI Decade https://atticusadvantage.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Taking-Advantage-of-the-AI-Decade.pdf  052: Could AI Replace the Role of Humans in the Judiciary System with Chief Judge Mark W. Klingensmith: atticusadvantage.com/episode052 091: Using AI in Your Law Firm: Give Curiosity the Credit It Deserves and Become More Innovative with Carla Johnson: atticusadvantage.com/episode091 Management, policies, cybersecurity and compliance: www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/management-policies-cybersecurity-compliance-2024-04-23 Episode Credits If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know we sent you.

I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today's and tomorrow's exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now:  Blog Learn more about Abundance360: https://www.abundance360.com/  _____________ In this episode, Ray and Peter discuss 2025 predictions, Job loss in the coming years, and Ray's thoughts on nanotech taking over the world.    Recorded on Oct 18th, 2024 Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. 12:44 | AGI Predictions Prove Conservative 27:06 | The Future of Jobs with Robots 57:30 | The Future of Humanity: AI Evolution Ray Kurzweil is a world-class inventor, thinker, and futurist, with a thirty-five-year track record of accurate predictions. He has been a leading developer in artificial intelligence for 61 years – longer than any other living person. He was the principal inventor of the first CCD flat-bed scanner, omni-font optical character recognition, print-to-speech reading machine for the blind, text-to-speech synthesizer, music synthesizer capable of recreating the grand piano and other orchestral instruments, and commercially marketed large-vocabulary speech recognition software. Ray received a Grammy Award for outstanding achievement in music technology; he is the recipient of the National Medal of Technology, was inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame, and holds twenty-one honorary Doctorates. He has written five best-selling books including The Singularity Is Near and How To Create A Mind, both New York Times bestsellers, and Danielle: Chronicles of a Superheroine, winner of multiple young adult fiction awards. His new book, The Singularity Is Nearer was released on June 25th and debuted at #4 on the New York Times Best Seller list. He is a Principal Researcher and AI Visionary at Google. Read The Singularity is Nearer: https://a.co/d/gbvshG2  ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are,  please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/ AI-powered precision diagnosis you NEED for a healthy gut: https://www.viome.com/peter  Reverse the age of your skin with OneSkin; 30% off new subscription orders with code PETER at oneskin.co/PETER Get real-time feedback on how diet impacts your health with https://join.levelshealth.com/peter/  _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots

Why don't they just convert all of the unused office space to housing?  Adam looks at the challenges involved in converting office buildings to residential space.  Then Darren gives us a review of Ray Kurzweil's recent book The Singularity Is Nearer.

Would you want to live forever? On this episode, Neil deGrasse Tyson and author, inventor, and futurist Ray Kurzweil discuss immortality, longevity escape velocity, the singularity, and the future of technology. What will life be like in 10 years? NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://startalkmedia.com/show/could-we-someday-live-forever-with-ray-kurzweil/Thanks to our Patrons Johan Svensson, Galen J., Kellen Bolander, Sunshine, and Brian White for supporting us this week.(Originally Aired Tuesday, November 29 2022)

Bill's guests are Ray Kurzweil, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, Chris Matthews (Originally aired 6/28/24) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How will AI improve our lives in the years to come? From its inception six decades ago to its recent exponential growth, futurist Ray Kurzweil highlights AI's transformative impact on various fields and explains his prediction for the singularity: the point at which human intelligence merges with machine intelligence.

Ray Kurzweil is a scientist, futurist, and Principal Researcher and AI Visionary at Google. He's the author of numerous books, including the forthcoming title "The Singularity is Nearer." Look for it on June 25, 2024. www.thekurzweillibrary.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices