Podcast appearances and mentions of rafat ali

What if the future of storytelling isn't about bigger platforms — but sharper taste? What if the real shift happening in media isn't just economic... but moral? Today, you're about to meet Rafat Ali — founder and CEO of Skift, one of the most respected travel media brands in the world. But his story didn't start there. Rafat grew up in India, a shy kid who stuttered — and somehow rewrote his future with nothing but words and a relentless eye for what others missed. He went from studying engineering to working for tech media icon Jason Calacanis during the first dot-com boom...to later building Skift into a brand so trusted that today, CEOs and world leaders cross conference halls just to get a bro hug from him. In this conversation, Rafat shares why legacy media is collapsing, what too many creators get wrong about influence, and how AI and independent media are re-drawing the map faster than most realize. We talk about why design — not data — will be the real differentiator in the next chapter of content. We dive into the hidden risks of "audience capture" — and why building something truly enduring requires the courage to be misunderstood for a while. And we explore why Rafat believes the next great media empires won't be built by corporations — but by people, building with instinct, action, and radical authenticity. If you care about the future of media, if you're trying to build anything magnetic, or if you just want a rare look inside the mind of one of the industry's true visionaries...you're in the right place. Behind the Stays is brought to you by Journey — a first-of-its-kind loyalty program that brings together an alliance of the world's top independently owned and operated stays and allows travelers to earn points and perks on boutique hotels, vacation rentals, treehouses, ski chalets, glamping experiences and so much more. Your host is Zach Busekrus, Head of the Journey Alliance. If you are a hospitality entrepreneur who has a stay, or a collection of stays with soul, we'd love for you to apply to join our Alliance at journey.com/alliance. 

Beth Santos is an author, storyteller, and keynote speaker on a mission to better connect and support women travelers and share the stories of diverse women worldwide. With a background in international development, thoughtful community building, and social enterprise, Beth Santos is out to change the landscape of travel for women worldwide. In 2009, while cruising her blue motorcycle through the streets of São Tomé and Príncipe, Beth created the first iteration of Wanderful as a travel blog aimed to explore the diverse and shared experiences of women traveling the world. Today, Wanderful has exploded to an international community and social network with the active participation of over 40,000 women and gender-diverse people of all ages and backgrounds. This is manifested through an active membership community, chapter events in over 50 global cities worldwide, and annual community events and trips. Beth is the author of Wander Woman: How to Reclaim Your Space, Find Your Voice, and Travel the World, Solo, published in March 2024. The book helps women to uncover the confidence they need to see the world for themselves, by themselves. In 2022, she launched the 85 Percent Podcast, which interviews accomplished women in travel and tourism and tells their stories of success — and their advice for a more inclusive travel industry. Beth is in the process of filming episodes of World Herstory, a travel docuseries highlighting food, culture, and history through the eyes of women around the world. In 2014, Beth created the WITS Travel Creator Summit, the leading event for women and gender diverse travel creators, entrepreneurs, and industry to use their voices to champion change in the travel industry, now hosted annually on two continents. In 2022, Wanderful launched Wanderfest, the first major outdoor travel festival by and for women, hailed by Fodor's Travel as the new festival to add to your radar. Beth's commitment to community building also reaches her local neighborhood of Jamaica Plain in Boston, where she and her husband are the owners of Ula Cafe, a social-justice-minded cafe, bakery, and lunchtime meeting spot. Beth has been recognized in Business Insider as one of 17 changemakers transforming the hospitality industry, in Conde Nast Traveller as one of 12 inspiring people to follow for International Women's Day, She was a finalist for Travel Unity's Applied DEI Award and a finalist for Women in Travel CIC's IWTTF award in the female leader-entrepreneur category in 2024. In 2023, Beth was recognized by the International Hospitality Institute as one of the 100 Most Influential People in Global Hospitality and Travel, alongside leaders like Airbnb's Brian Cheskey, Skift's Rafat Ali, and PBS's Samantha Brown. She has an MBA from the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University and a BA from Wellesley College. When she's not traveling the world, she's relishing in home renovation projects and exploring her home city of Boston with her family. To learn more about Beth Santos: Website: https://bethsantos.com/ https://sheswanderful.com/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/maximumbeth/?hl=en IG: https://www.instagram.com/sheswanderful/?hl=en LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/santosbeth/

Send us a textLinking the Travel Industry is a business travel podcast where we review the top travel industry stories that are posted on LinkedIn by LinkedIn members.  We curate the top posts and discuss with them with travel industry veterans in a live session with audience members.  You can join the live recording session by visiting BusinessTravel360.comYour Hosts are Riaan van Schoor, Ann Cederhall and Aash ShravahStories covered on this session include -International Airlines Group (IAG) launches IAGi Ventures, with a €200m fund to "invest in high potential companies over five years".

In this episode, Colin Nagy, a global strategy executive and travel writer, shares why and how he travels, what's catching his attention, and the opportunities he sees in hospitality today:(00:00) Introduction (02:13) Colin's early travel experiences(05:16) Why Colin travels thoughtfully(07:29) Fascination with the Middle East and Japan(10:40) Why Colin writes about travel(12:18) Objectivity in travel writing(15:00) Building a network of primary sources(17:48) Role of hotels in community immersion(23:33) Creativity in hospitality(27:07) Family-owned hotels and "patient capital"(32:44) "Post-luxury" consumers(35:44) New skills for hospitality leaders(39:30) AI's impact on hospitality(43:43) Airline loyalty strategiesAlso see: Colin's interview with Rafat Ali on Skift A few more resources: If you're new to Hospitality Daily, start here. You can send me a message here with questions, comments, or guest suggestions If you want to get my summary and actionable insights from each episode delivered to your inbox each day, subscribe here for free. Follow Hospitality Daily and join the conversation on YouTube, LinkedIn, and Instagram. If you want to advertise on Hospitality Daily, here are the ways we can work together. If you found this episode interesting or helpful, send it to someone on your team so you can turn the ideas into action and benefit your business and the people you serve! Music for this show is produced by Clay Bassford of Bespoke Sound: Music Identity Design for Hospitality Brands

Due to overwhelming demand (>15x applications:slots), we are closing CFPs for AI Engineer Summit NYC today. Last call! Thanks, we'll be reaching out to all shortly!The world's top AI blogger and friend of every pod, Simon Willison, dropped a monster 2024 recap: Things we learned about LLMs in 2024. Brian of the excellent TechMeme Ride Home pinged us for a connection and a special crossover episode, our first in 2025. The target audience for this podcast is a tech-literate, but non-technical one. You can see Simon's notes for AI Engineers in his World's Fair Keynote.Timestamp* 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome* 01:06 State of AI in 2025* 01:43 Advancements in AI Models* 03:59 Cost Efficiency in AI* 06:16 Challenges and Competition in AI* 17:15 AI Agents and Their Limitations* 26:12 Multimodal AI and Future Prospects* 35:29 Exploring Video Avatar Companies* 36:24 AI Influencers and Their Future* 37:12 Simplifying Content Creation with AI* 38:30 The Importance of Credibility in AI* 41:36 The Future of LLM User Interfaces* 48:58 Local LLMs: A Growing Interest* 01:07:22 AI Wearables: The Next Big Thing* 01:10:16 Wrapping Up and Final ThoughtsTranscript[00:00:00] Introduction and Guest Welcome[00:00:00] Brian: Welcome to the first bonus episode of the Tech Meme Write Home for the year 2025. I'm your host as always, Brian McCullough. Listeners to the pod over the last year know that I have made a habit of quoting from Simon Willison when new stuff happens in AI from his blog. Simon has been, become a go to for many folks in terms of, you know, Analyzing things, criticizing things in the AI space.[00:00:33] Brian: I've wanted to talk to you for a long time, Simon. So thank you for coming on the show. No, it's a privilege to be here. And the person that made this connection happen is our friend Swyx, who has been on the show back, even going back to the, the Twitter Spaces days but also an AI guru in, in their own right Swyx, thanks for coming on the show also.[00:00:54] swyx (2): Thanks. I'm happy to be on and have been a regular listener, so just happy to [00:01:00] contribute as well.[00:01:00] Brian: And a good friend of the pod, as they say. Alright, let's go right into it.[00:01:06] State of AI in 2025[00:01:06] Brian: Simon, I'm going to do the most unfair, broad question first, so let's get it out of the way. The year 2025. Broadly, what is the state of AI as we begin this year?[00:01:20] Brian: Whatever you want to say, I don't want to lead the witness.[00:01:22] Simon: Wow. So many things, right? I mean, the big thing is everything's got really good and fast and cheap. Like, that was the trend throughout all of 2024. The good models got so much cheaper, they got so much faster, they got multimodal, right? The image stuff isn't even a surprise anymore.[00:01:39] Simon: They're growing video, all of that kind of stuff. So that's all really exciting.[00:01:43] Advancements in AI Models[00:01:43] Simon: At the same time, they didn't get massively better than GPT 4, which was a bit of a surprise. So that's sort of one of the open questions is, are we going to see huge, but I kind of feel like that's a bit of a distraction because GPT 4, but way cheaper, much larger context lengths, and it [00:02:00] can do multimodal.[00:02:01] Simon: is better, right? That's a better model, even if it's not.[00:02:05] Brian: What people were expecting or hoping, maybe not expecting is not the right word, but hoping that we would see another step change, right? Right. From like GPT 2 to 3 to 4, we were expecting or hoping that maybe we were going to see the next evolution in that sort of, yeah.[00:02:21] Brian: We[00:02:21] Simon: did see that, but not in the way we expected. We thought the model was just going to get smarter, and instead we got. Massive drops in, drops in price. We got all of these new capabilities. You can talk to the things now, right? They can do simulated audio input, all of that kind of stuff. And so it's kind of, it's interesting to me that the models improved in all of these ways we weren't necessarily expecting.[00:02:43] Simon: I didn't know it would be able to do an impersonation of Santa Claus, like a, you know, Talked to it through my phone and show it what I was seeing by the end of 2024. But yeah, we didn't get that GPT 5 step. And that's one of the big open questions is, is that actually just around the corner and we'll have a bunch of GPT 5 class models drop in the [00:03:00] next few months?[00:03:00] Simon: Or is there a limit?[00:03:03] Brian: If you were a betting man and wanted to put money on it, do you expect to see a phase change, step change in 2025?[00:03:11] Simon: I don't particularly for that, like, the models, but smarter. I think all of the trends we're seeing right now are going to keep on going, especially the inference time compute, right?[00:03:21] Simon: The trick that O1 and O3 are doing, which means that you can solve harder problems, but they cost more and it churns away for longer. I think that's going to happen because that's already proven to work. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe there will be a step change to a GPT 5 level, but honestly, I'd be completely happy if we got what we've got right now.[00:03:41] Simon: But cheaper and faster and more capabilities and longer contexts and so forth. That would be thrilling to me.[00:03:46] Brian: Digging into what you've just said one of the things that, by the way, I hope to link in the show notes to Simon's year end post about what, what things we learned about LLMs in 2024. Look for that in the show notes.[00:03:59] Cost Efficiency in AI[00:03:59] Brian: One of the things that you [00:04:00] did say that you alluded to even right there was that in the last year, you felt like the GPT 4 barrier was broken, like IE. Other models, even open source ones are now regularly matching sort of the state of the art.[00:04:13] Simon: Well, it's interesting, right? So the GPT 4 barrier was a year ago, the best available model was OpenAI's GPT 4 and nobody else had even come close to it.[00:04:22] Simon: And they'd been at the, in the lead for like nine months, right? That thing came out in what, February, March of, of 2023. And for the rest of 2023, nobody else came close. And so at the start of last year, like a year ago, the big question was, Why has nobody beaten them yet? Like, what do they know that the rest of the industry doesn't know?[00:04:40] Simon: And today, that I've counted 18 organizations other than GPT 4 who've put out a model which clearly beats that GPT 4 from a year ago thing. Like, maybe they're not better than GPT 4. 0, but that's, that, that, that barrier got completely smashed. And yeah, a few of those I've run on my laptop, which is wild to me.[00:04:59] Simon: Like, [00:05:00] it was very, very wild. It felt very clear to me a year ago that if you want GPT 4, you need a rack of 40, 000 GPUs just to run the thing. And that turned out not to be true. Like the, the, this is that big trend from last year of the models getting more efficient, cheaper to run, just as capable with smaller weights and so forth.[00:05:20] Simon: And I ran another GPT 4 model on my laptop this morning, right? Microsoft 5. 4 just came out. And that, if you look at the benchmarks, it's definitely, it's up there with GPT 4. 0. It's probably not as good when you actually get into the vibes of the thing, but it, it runs on my, it's a 14 gigabyte download and I can run it on a MacBook Pro.[00:05:38] Simon: Like who saw that coming? The most exciting, like the close of the year on Christmas day, just a few weeks ago, was when DeepSeek dropped their DeepSeek v3 model on Hugging Face without even a readme file. It was just like a giant binary blob that I can't run on my laptop. It's too big. But in all of the benchmarks, it's now by far the best available [00:06:00] open, open weights model.[00:06:01] Simon: Like it's, it's, it's beating the, the metalamas and so forth. And that was trained for five and a half million dollars, which is a tenth of the price that people thought it costs to train these things. So everything's trending smaller and faster and more efficient.[00:06:15] Brian: Well, okay.[00:06:16] Challenges and Competition in AI[00:06:16] Brian: I, I kind of was going to get to that later, but let's, let's combine this with what I was going to ask you next, which is, you know, you're talking, you know, Also in the piece about the LLM prices crashing, which I've even seen in projects that I'm working on, but explain Explain that to a general audience, because we hear all the time that LLMs are eye wateringly expensive to run, but what we're suggesting, and we'll come back to the cheap Chinese LLM, but first of all, for the end user, what you're suggesting is that we're starting to see the cost come down sort of in the traditional technology way of Of costs coming down over time,[00:06:49] Simon: yes, but very aggressively.[00:06:51] Simon: I mean, my favorite thing, the example here is if you look at GPT-3, so open AI's g, PT three, which was the best, a developed model in [00:07:00] 2022 and through most of 20 2023. That, the models that we have today, the OpenAI models are a hundred times cheaper. So there was a 100x drop in price for OpenAI from their best available model, like two and a half years ago to today.[00:07:13] Simon: And[00:07:14] Brian: just to be clear, not to train the model, but for the use of tokens and things. Exactly,[00:07:20] Simon: for running prompts through them. And then When you look at the, the really, the top tier model providers right now, I think, are OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, and Meta. And there are a bunch of others that I could list there as well.[00:07:32] Simon: Mistral are very good. The, the DeepSeq and Quen models have got great. There's a whole bunch of providers serving really good models. But even if you just look at the sort of big brand name providers, they all offer models now that are A fraction of the price of the, the, of the models we were using last year.[00:07:49] Simon: I think I've got some numbers that I threw into my blog entry here. Yeah. Like Gemini 1. 5 flash, that's Google's fast high quality model is [00:08:00] how much is that? It's 0. 075 dollars per million tokens. Like these numbers are getting, So we just do cents per million now,[00:08:09] swyx (2): cents per million,[00:08:10] Simon: cents per million makes, makes a lot more sense.[00:08:12] Simon: Yeah they have one model 1. 5 flash 8B, the absolute cheapest of the Google models, is 27 times cheaper than GPT 3. 5 turbo was a year ago. That's it. And GPT 3. 5 turbo, that was the cheap model, right? Now we've got something 27 times cheaper, and the Google, this Google one can do image recognition, it can do million token context, all of those tricks.[00:08:36] Simon: But it's, it's, it's very, it's, it really is startling how inexpensive some of this stuff has got.[00:08:41] Brian: Now, are we assuming that this, that happening is directly the result of competition? Because again, you know, OpenAI, and probably they're doing this for their own almost political reasons, strategic reasons, keeps saying, we're losing money on everything, even the 200.[00:08:56] Brian: So they probably wouldn't, the prices wouldn't be [00:09:00] coming down if there wasn't intense competition in this space.[00:09:04] Simon: The competition is absolutely part of it, but I have it on good authority from sources I trust that Google Gemini is not operating at a loss. Like, the amount of electricity to run a prompt is less than they charge you.[00:09:16] Simon: And the same thing for Amazon Nova. Like, somebody found an Amazon executive and got them to say, Yeah, we're not losing money on this. I don't know about Anthropic and OpenAI, but clearly that demonstrates it is possible to run these things at these ludicrously low prices and still not be running at a loss if you discount the Army of PhDs and the, the training costs and all of that kind of stuff.[00:09:36] Brian: One, one more for me before I let Swyx jump in here. To, to come back to DeepSeek and this idea that you could train, you know, a cutting edge model for 6 million. I, I was saying on the show, like six months ago, that if we are getting to the point where each new model It would cost a billion, ten billion, a hundred billion to train that.[00:09:54] Brian: At some point it would almost, only nation states would be able to train the new models. Do you [00:10:00] expect what DeepSeek and maybe others are proving to sort of blow that up? Or is there like some sort of a parallel track here that maybe I'm not technically, I don't have the mouse to understand the difference.[00:10:11] Brian: Is the model, are the models going to go, you know, Up to a hundred billion dollars or can we get them down? Sort of like DeepSeek has proven[00:10:18] Simon: so I'm the wrong person to answer that because I don't work in the lab training these models. So I can give you my completely uninformed opinion, which is, I felt like the DeepSeek thing.[00:10:27] Simon: That was a bomb shell. That was an absolute bombshell when they came out and said, Hey, look, we've trained. One of the best available models and it cost us six, five and a half million dollars to do it. I feel, and they, the reason, one of the reasons it's so efficient is that we put all of these export controls in to stop Chinese companies from giant buying GPUs.[00:10:44] Simon: So they've, were forced to be, go as efficient as possible. And yet the fact that they've demonstrated that that's possible to do. I think it does completely tear apart this, this, this mental model we had before that yeah, the training runs just keep on getting more and more expensive and the number of [00:11:00] organizations that can afford to run these training runs keeps on shrinking.[00:11:03] Simon: That, that's been blown out of the water. So yeah, that's, again, this was our Christmas gift. This was the thing they dropped on Christmas day. Yeah, it makes me really optimistic that we can, there are, It feels like there was so much low hanging fruit in terms of the efficiency of both inference and training and we spent a whole bunch of last year exploring that and getting results from it.[00:11:22] Simon: I think there's probably a lot left. I think there's probably, well, I would not be surprised to see even better models trained spending even less money over the next six months.[00:11:31] swyx (2): Yeah. So I, I think there's a unspoken angle here on what exactly the Chinese labs are trying to do because DeepSea made a lot of noise.[00:11:41] swyx (2): so much for joining us for around the fact that they train their model for six million dollars and nobody quite quite believes them. Like it's very, very rare for a lab to trumpet the fact that they're doing it for so cheap. They're not trying to get anyone to buy them. So why [00:12:00] are they doing this? They make it very, very obvious.[00:12:05] swyx (2): Deepseek is about 150 employees. It's an order of magnitude smaller than at least Anthropic and maybe, maybe more so for OpenAI. And so what's, what's the end game here? Are they, are they just trying to show that the Chinese are better than us?[00:12:21] Simon: So Deepseek, it's the arm of a hedge, it's a, it's a quant fund, right?[00:12:25] Simon: It's an algorithmic quant trading thing. So I, I, I would love to get more insight into how that organization works. My assumption from what I've seen is it looks like they're basically just flexing. They're like, hey, look at how utterly brilliant we are with this amazing thing that we've done. And it's, it's working, right?[00:12:43] Simon: They but, and so is that it? Are they, is this just their kind of like, this is, this is why our company is so amazing. Look at this thing that we've done, or? I don't know. I'd, I'd love to get Some insight from, from within that industry as to, as to how that's all playing out.[00:12:57] swyx (2): The, the prevailing theory among the Local Llama [00:13:00] crew and the Twitter crew that I indexed for my newsletter is that there is some amount of copying going on.[00:13:06] swyx (2): It's like Sam Altman you know, tweet, tweeting about how they're being copied. And then also there's this, there, there are other sort of opening eye employees that have said, Stuff that is similar that DeepSeek's rate of progress is how U. S. intelligence estimates the number of foreign spies embedded in top labs.[00:13:22] swyx (2): Because a lot of these ideas do spread around, but they surprisingly have a very high density of them in the DeepSeek v3 technical report. So it's, it's interesting. We don't know how much, how many, how much tokens. I think that, you know, people have run analysis on how often DeepSeek thinks it is cloud or thinks it is opening GPC 4.[00:13:40] swyx (2): Thanks for watching! And we don't, we don't know. We don't know. I think for me, like, yeah, we'll, we'll, we basically will never know as, as external commentators. I think what's interesting is how, where does this go? Is there a logical floor or bottom by my estimations for the same amount of ELO started last year to the end of last year cost went down by a thousand X for the [00:14:00] GPT, for, for GPT 4 intelligence.[00:14:02] swyx (2): Would, do they go down a thousand X this year?[00:14:04] Simon: That's a fascinating question. Yeah.[00:14:06] swyx (2): Is there a Moore's law going on, or did we just get a one off benefit last year for some weird reason?[00:14:14] Simon: My uninformed hunch is low hanging fruit. I feel like up until a year ago, people haven't been focusing on efficiency at all. You know, it was all about, what can we get these weird shaped things to do?[00:14:24] Simon: And now once we've sort of hit that, okay, we know that we can get them to do what GPT 4 can do, When thousands of researchers around the world all focus on, okay, how do we make this more efficient? What are the most important, like, how do we strip out all of the weights that have stuff in that doesn't really matter?[00:14:39] Simon: All of that kind of thing. So yeah, maybe that was it. Maybe 2024 was a freak year of all of the low hanging fruit coming out at once. And we'll actually see a reduction in the, in that rate of improvement in terms of efficiency. I wonder, I mean, I think we'll know for sure in about three months time if that trend's going to continue or not.[00:14:58] swyx (2): I agree. You know, I [00:15:00] think the other thing that you mentioned that DeepSeq v3 was the gift that was given from DeepSeq over Christmas, but I feel like the other thing that might be underrated was DeepSeq R1,[00:15:11] Speaker 4: which is[00:15:13] swyx (2): a reasoning model you can run on your laptop. And I think that's something that a lot of people are looking ahead to this year.[00:15:18] swyx (2): Oh, did they[00:15:18] Simon: release the weights for that one?[00:15:20] swyx (2): Yeah.[00:15:21] Simon: Oh my goodness, I missed that. I've been playing with the quen. So the other great, the other big Chinese AI app is Alibaba's quen. Actually, yeah, I, sorry, R1 is an API available. Yeah. Exactly. When that's really cool. So Alibaba's Quen have released two reasoning models that I've run on my laptop.[00:15:38] Simon: Now there was, the first one was Q, Q, WQ. And then the second one was QVQ because the second one's a vision model. So you can like give it vision puzzles and a prompt that these things, they are so much fun to run. Because they think out loud. It's like the OpenAR 01 sort of hides its thinking process. The Query ones don't.[00:15:59] Simon: They just, they [00:16:00] just churn away. And so you'll give it a problem and it will output literally dozens of paragraphs of text about how it's thinking. My favorite thing that happened with QWQ is I asked it to draw me a pelican on a bicycle in SVG. That's like my standard stupid prompt. And for some reason it thought in Chinese.[00:16:18] Simon: It spat out a whole bunch of like Chinese text onto my terminal on my laptop, and then at the end it gave me quite a good sort of artistic pelican on a bicycle. And I ran it all through Google Translate, and yeah, it was like, it was contemplating the nature of SVG files as a starting point. And the fact that my laptop can think in Chinese now is so delightful.[00:16:40] Simon: It's so much fun watching you do that.[00:16:43] swyx (2): Yeah, I think Andrej Karpathy was saying, you know, we, we know that we have achieved proper reasoning inside of these models when they stop thinking in English, and perhaps the best form of thought is in Chinese. But yeah, for listeners who don't know Simon's blog he always, whenever a new model comes out, you, I don't know how you do it, but [00:17:00] you're always the first to run Pelican Bench on these models.[00:17:02] swyx (2): I just did it for 5.[00:17:05] Simon: Yeah.[00:17:07] swyx (2): So I really appreciate that. You should check it out. These are not theoretical. Simon's blog actually shows them.[00:17:12] Brian: Let me put on the investor hat for a second.[00:17:15] AI Agents and Their Limitations[00:17:15] Brian: Because from the investor side of things, a lot of the, the VCs that I know are really hot on agents, and this is the year of agents, but last year was supposed to be the year of agents as well. Lots of money flowing towards, And Gentic startups.[00:17:32] Brian: But in in your piece that again, we're hopefully going to have linked in the show notes, you sort of suggest there's a fundamental flaw in AI agents as they exist right now. Let me let me quote you. And then I'd love to dive into this. You said, I remain skeptical as to their ability based once again, on the Challenge of gullibility.[00:17:49] Brian: LLMs believe anything you tell them, any systems that attempt to make meaningful decisions on your behalf, will run into the same roadblock. How good is a travel agent, or a digital assistant, or even a research tool, if it [00:18:00] can't distinguish truth from fiction? So, essentially, what you're suggesting is that the state of the art now that allows agents is still, it's still that sort of 90 percent problem, the edge problem, getting to the Or, or, or is there a deeper flaw?[00:18:14] Brian: What are you, what are you saying there?[00:18:16] Simon: So this is the fundamental challenge here and honestly my frustration with agents is mainly around definitions Like any if you ask anyone who says they're working on agents to define agents You will get a subtly different definition from each person But everyone always assumes that their definition is the one true one that everyone else understands So I feel like a lot of these agent conversations, people talking past each other because one person's talking about the, the sort of travel agent idea of something that books things on your behalf.[00:18:41] Simon: Somebody else is talking about LLMs with tools running in a loop with a cron job somewhere and all of these different things. You, you ask academics and they'll laugh at you because they've been debating what agents mean for over 30 years at this point. It's like this, this long running, almost sort of an in joke in that community.[00:18:57] Simon: But if we assume that for this purpose of this conversation, an [00:19:00] agent is something that, Which you can give a job and it goes off and it does that thing for you like, like booking travel or things like that. The fundamental challenge is, it's the reliability thing, which comes from this gullibility problem.[00:19:12] Simon: And a lot of my, my interest in this originally came from when I was thinking about prompt injections as a source of this form of attack against LLM systems where you deliberately lay traps out there for this LLM to stumble across,[00:19:24] Brian: and which I should say you have been banging this drum that no one's gotten any far, at least on solving this, that I'm aware of, right.[00:19:31] Brian: Like that's still an open problem. The two years.[00:19:33] Simon: Yeah. Right. We've been talking about this problem and like, a great illustration of this was Claude so Anthropic released Claude computer use a few months ago. Fantastic demo. You could fire up a Docker container and you could literally tell it to do something and watch it open a web browser and navigate to a webpage and click around and so forth.[00:19:51] Simon: Really, really, really interesting and fun to play with. And then, um. One of the first demos somebody tried was, what if you give it a web page that says download and run this [00:20:00] executable, and it did, and the executable was malware that added it to a botnet. So the, the very first most obvious dumb trick that you could play on this thing just worked, right?[00:20:10] Simon: So that's obviously a really big problem. If I'm going to send something out to book travel on my behalf, I mean, it's hard enough for me to figure out which airlines are trying to scam me and which ones aren't. Do I really trust a language model that believes the literal truth of anything that's presented to it to go out and do those things?[00:20:29] swyx (2): Yeah I definitely think there's, it's interesting to see Anthropic doing this because they used to be the safety arm of OpenAI that split out and said, you know, we're worried about letting this thing out in the wild and here they are enabling computer use for agents. Thanks. The, it feels like things have merged.[00:20:49] swyx (2): You know, I'm, I'm also fairly skeptical about, you know, this always being the, the year of Linux on the desktop. And this is the equivalent of this being the year of agents that people [00:21:00] are not predicting so much as wishfully thinking and hoping and praying for their companies and agents to work.[00:21:05] swyx (2): But I, I feel like things are. Coming along a little bit. It's to me, it's kind of like self driving. I remember in 2014 saying that self driving was just around the corner. And I mean, it kind of is, you know, like in, in, in the Bay area. You[00:21:17] Simon: get in a Waymo and you're like, Oh, this works. Yeah, but it's a slow[00:21:21] swyx (2): cook.[00:21:21] swyx (2): It's a slow cook over the next 10 years. We're going to hammer out these things and the cynical people can just point to all the flaws, but like, there are measurable or concrete progress steps that are being made by these builders.[00:21:33] Simon: There is one form of agent that I believe in. I believe, mostly believe in the research assistant form of agents.[00:21:39] Simon: The thing where you've got a difficult problem and, and I've got like, I'm, I'm on the beta for the, the Google Gemini 1. 5 pro with deep research. I think it's called like these names, these names. Right. But. I've been using that. It's good, right? You can give it a difficult problem and it tells you, okay, I'm going to look at 56 different websites [00:22:00] and it goes away and it dumps everything to its context and it comes up with a report for you.[00:22:04] Simon: And it's not, it won't work against adversarial websites, right? If there are websites with deliberate lies in them, it might well get caught out. Most things don't have that as a problem. And so I've had some answers from that which were genuinely really valuable to me. And that feels to me like, I can see how given existing LLM tech, especially with Google Gemini with its like million token contacts and Google with their crawl of the entire web and their, they've got like search, they've got search and cache, they've got a cache of every page and so forth.[00:22:35] Simon: That makes sense to me. And that what they've got right now, I don't think it's, it's not as good as it can be, obviously, but it's, it's, it's, it's a real useful thing, which they're going to start rolling out. So, you know, Perplexity have been building the same thing for a couple of years. That, that I believe in.[00:22:50] Simon: You know, if you tell me that you're going to have an agent that's a research assistant agent, great. The coding agents I mean, chat gpt code interpreter, Nearly two years [00:23:00] ago, that thing started writing Python code, executing the code, getting errors, rewriting it to fix the errors. That pattern obviously works.[00:23:07] Simon: That works really, really well. So, yeah, coding agents that do that sort of error message loop thing, those are proven to work. And they're going to keep on getting better, and that's going to be great. The research assistant agents are just beginning to get there. The things I'm critical of are the ones where you trust, you trust this thing to go out and act autonomously on your behalf, and make decisions on your behalf, especially involving spending money, like that.[00:23:31] Simon: I don't see that working for a very long time. That feels to me like an AGI level problem.[00:23:37] swyx (2): It's it's funny because I think Stripe actually released an agent toolkit which is one of the, the things I featured that is trying to enable these agents each to have a wallet that they can go and spend and have, basically, it's a virtual card.[00:23:49] swyx (2): It's not that, not that difficult with modern infrastructure. can[00:23:51] Simon: stick a 50 cap on it, then at least it's an honor. Can't lose more than 50.[00:23:56] Brian: You know I don't, I don't know if either of you know Rafat Ali [00:24:00] he runs Skift, which is a, a travel news vertical. And he, he, he constantly laughs at the fact that every agent thing is, we're gonna get rid of booking a, a plane flight for you, you know?[00:24:11] Brian: And, and I would point out that, like, historically, when the web started, the first thing everyone talked about is, You can go online and book a trip, right? So it's funny for each generation of like technological advance. The thing they always want to kill is the travel agent. And now they want to kill the webpage travel agent.[00:24:29] Simon: Like it's like I use Google flight search. It's great, right? If you gave me an agent to do that for me, it would save me, I mean, maybe 15 seconds of typing in my things, but I still want to see what my options are and go, yeah, I'm not flying on that airline, no matter how cheap they are.[00:24:44] swyx (2): Yeah. For listeners, go ahead.[00:24:47] swyx (2): For listeners, I think, you know, I think both of you are pretty positive on NotebookLM. And you know, we, we actually interviewed the NotebookLM creators, and there are actually two internal agents going on internally. The reason it takes so long is because they're running an agent loop [00:25:00] inside that is fairly autonomous, which is kind of interesting.[00:25:01] swyx (2): For one,[00:25:02] Simon: for a definition of agent loop, if you picked that particularly well. For one definition. And you're talking about the podcast side of this, right?[00:25:07] swyx (2): Yeah, the podcast side of things. They have a there's, there's going to be a new version coming out that, that we'll be featuring at our, at our conference.[00:25:14] Simon: That one's fascinating to me. Like NotebookLM, I think it's two products, right? On the one hand, it's actually a very good rag product, right? You dump a bunch of things in, you can run searches, that, that, it does a good job of. And then, and then they added the, the podcast thing. It's a bit of a, it's a total gimmick, right?[00:25:30] Simon: But that gimmick got them attention, because they had a great product that nobody paid any attention to at all. And then you add the unfeasibly good voice synthesis of the podcast. Like, it's just, it's, it's, it's the lesson.[00:25:43] Brian: It's the lesson of mid journey and stuff like that. If you can create something that people can post on socials, you don't have to lift a finger again to do any marketing for what you're doing.[00:25:53] Brian: Let me dig into Notebook LLM just for a second as a podcaster. As a [00:26:00] gimmick, it makes sense, and then obviously, you know, you dig into it, it sort of has problems around the edges. It's like, it does the thing that all sort of LLMs kind of do, where it's like, oh, we want to Wrap up with a conclusion.[00:26:12] Multimodal AI and Future Prospects[00:26:12] Brian: I always call that like the the eighth grade book report paper problem where it has to have an intro and then, you know But that's sort of a thing where because I think you spoke about this again in your piece at the year end About how things are going multimodal and how things are that you didn't expect like, you know vision and especially audio I think So that's another thing where, at least over the last year, there's been progress made that maybe you, you didn't think was coming as quick as it came.[00:26:43] Simon: I don't know. I mean, a year ago, we had one really good vision model. We had GPT 4 vision, was, was, was very impressive. And Google Gemini had just dropped Gemini 1. 0, which had vision, but nobody had really played with it yet. Like Google hadn't. People weren't taking Gemini [00:27:00] seriously at that point. I feel like it was 1.[00:27:02] Simon: 5 Pro when it became apparent that actually they were, they, they got over their hump and they were building really good models. And yeah, and they, to be honest, the video models are mostly still using the same trick. The thing where you divide the video up into one image per second and you dump that all into the context.[00:27:16] Simon: So maybe it shouldn't have been so surprising to us that long context models plus vision meant that the video was, was starting to be solved. Of course, it didn't. Not being, you, what you really want with videos, you want to be able to do the audio and the images at the same time. And I think the models are beginning to do that now.[00:27:33] Simon: Like, originally, Gemini 1. 5 Pro originally ignored the audio. It just did the, the, like, one frame per second video trick. As far as I can tell, the most recent ones are actually doing pure multimodal. But the things that opens up are just extraordinary. Like, the the ChatGPT iPhone app feature that they shipped as one of their 12 days of, of OpenAI, I really can be having a conversation and just turn on my video camera and go, Hey, what kind of tree is [00:28:00] this?[00:28:00] Simon: And so forth. And it works. And for all I know, that's just snapping a like picture once a second and feeding it into the model. The, the, the things that you can do with that as an end user are extraordinary. Like that, that to me, I don't think most people have cottoned onto the fact that you can now stream video directly into a model because it, it's only a few weeks old.[00:28:22] Simon: Wow. That's a, that's a, that's a, that's Big boost in terms of what kinds of things you can do with this stuff. Yeah. For[00:28:30] swyx (2): people who are not that close I think Gemini Flashes free tier allows you to do something like capture a photo, one photo every second or a minute and leave it on 24, seven, and you can prompt it to do whatever.[00:28:45] swyx (2): And so you can effectively have your own camera app or monitoring app that that you just prompt and it detects where it changes. It detects for, you know, alerts or anything like that, or describes your day. You know, and, and, and the fact that this is free I think [00:29:00] it's also leads into the previous point of it being the prices haven't come down a lot.[00:29:05] Simon: And even if you're paying for this stuff, like a thing that I put in my blog entry is I ran a calculation on what it would cost to process 68, 000 photographs in my photo collection, and for each one just generate a caption, and using Gemini 1. 5 Flash 8B, it would cost me 1. 68 to process 68, 000 images, which is, I mean, that, that doesn't make sense.[00:29:28] Simon: None of that makes sense. Like it's, it's a, for one four hundredth of a cent per image to generate captions now. So you can see why feeding in a day's worth of video just isn't even very expensive to process.[00:29:40] swyx (2): Yeah, I'll tell you what is expensive. It's the other direction. So we're here, we're talking about consuming video.[00:29:46] swyx (2): And this year, we also had a lot of progress, like probably one of the most excited, excited, anticipated launches of the year was Sora. We actually got Sora. And less exciting.[00:29:55] Simon: We did, and then VO2, Google's Sora, came out like three [00:30:00] days later and upstaged it. Like, Sora was exciting until VO2 landed, which was just better.[00:30:05] swyx (2): In general, I feel the media, or the social media, has been very unfair to Sora. Because what was released to the world, generally available, was Sora Lite. It's the distilled version of Sora, right? So you're, I did not[00:30:16] Simon: realize that you're absolutely comparing[00:30:18] swyx (2): the, the most cherry picked version of VO two, the one that they published on the marketing page to the, the most embarrassing version of the soa.[00:30:25] swyx (2): So of course it's gonna look bad, so, well, I got[00:30:27] Simon: access to the VO two I'm in the VO two beta and I've been poking around with it and. Getting it to generate pelicans on bicycles and stuff. I would absolutely[00:30:34] swyx (2): believe that[00:30:35] Simon: VL2 is actually better. Is Sora, so is full fat Sora coming soon? Do you know, when, when do we get to play with that one?[00:30:42] Simon: No one's[00:30:43] swyx (2): mentioned anything. I think basically the strategy is let people play around with Sora Lite and get info there. But the, the, keep developing Sora with the Hollywood studios. That's what they actually care about. Gotcha. Like the rest of us. Don't really know what to do with the video anyway. Right.[00:30:59] Simon: I mean, [00:31:00] that's my thing is I realized that for generative images and images and video like images We've had for a few years and I don't feel like they've broken out into the talented artist community yet Like lots of people are having fun with them and doing and producing stuff. That's kind of cool to look at but what I want you know that that movie everything everywhere all at once, right?[00:31:20] Simon: One, one ton of Oscars, utterly amazing film. The VFX team for that were five people, some of whom were watching YouTube videos to figure out what to do. My big question for, for Sora and and and Midjourney and stuff, what happens when a creative team like that starts using these tools? I want the creative geniuses behind everything, everywhere all at once.[00:31:40] Simon: What are they going to be able to do with this stuff in like a few years time? Because that's really exciting to me. That's where you take artists who are at the very peak of their game. Give them these new capabilities and see, see what they can do with them.[00:31:52] swyx (2): I should, I know a little bit here. So it should mention that, that team actually used RunwayML.[00:31:57] swyx (2): So there was, there was,[00:31:57] Simon: yeah.[00:31:59] swyx (2): I don't know how [00:32:00] much I don't. So, you know, it's possible to overstate this, but there are people integrating it. Generated video within their workflow, even pre SORA. Right, because[00:32:09] Brian: it's not, it's not the thing where it's like, okay, tomorrow we'll be able to do a full two hour movie that you prompt with three sentences.[00:32:15] Brian: It is like, for the very first part of, of, you know video effects in film, it's like, if you can get that three second clip, if you can get that 20 second thing that they did in the matrix that blew everyone's minds and took a million dollars or whatever to do, like, it's the, it's the little bits and pieces that they can fill in now that it's probably already there.[00:32:34] swyx (2): Yeah, it's like, I think actually having a layered view of what assets people need and letting AI fill in the low value assets. Right, like the background video, the background music and, you know, sometimes the sound effects. That, that maybe, maybe more palatable maybe also changes the, the way that you evaluate the stuff that's coming out.[00:32:57] swyx (2): Because people tend to, in social media, try to [00:33:00] emphasize foreground stuff, main character stuff. So you really care about consistency, and you, you really are bothered when, like, for example, Sorad. Botch's image generation of a gymnast doing flips, which is horrible. It's horrible. But for background crowds, like, who cares?[00:33:18] Brian: And by the way, again, I was, I was a film major way, way back in the day, like, that's how it started. Like things like Braveheart, where they filmed 10 people on a field, and then the computer could turn it into 1000 people on a field. Like, that's always been the way it's around the margins and in the background that first comes in.[00:33:36] Brian: The[00:33:36] Simon: Lord of the Rings movies were over 20 years ago. Although they have those giant battle sequences, which were very early, like, I mean, you could almost call it a generative AI approach, right? They were using very sophisticated, like, algorithms to model out those different battles and all of that kind of stuff.[00:33:52] Simon: Yeah, I know very little. I know basically nothing about film production, so I try not to commentate on it. But I am fascinated to [00:34:00] see what happens when, when these tools start being used by the real, the people at the top of their game.[00:34:05] swyx (2): I would say like there's a cultural war that is more that being fought here than a technology war.[00:34:11] swyx (2): Most of the Hollywood people are against any form of AI anyway, so they're busy Fighting that battle instead of thinking about how to adopt it and it's, it's very fringe. I participated here in San Francisco, one generative AI video creative hackathon where the AI positive artists actually met with technologists like myself and then we collaborated together to build short films and that was really nice and I think, you know, I'll be hosting some of those in my events going forward.[00:34:38] swyx (2): One thing that I think like I want to leave it. Give people a sense of it's like this is a recap of last year But then sometimes it's useful to walk away as well with like what can we expect in the future? I don't know if you got anything. I would also call out that the Chinese models here have made a lot of progress Hyde Law and Kling and God knows who like who else in the video arena [00:35:00] Also making a lot of progress like surprising him like I think maybe actually Chinese China is surprisingly ahead with regards to Open8 at least, but also just like specific forms of video generation.[00:35:12] Simon: Wouldn't it be interesting if a film industry sprung up in a country that we don't normally think of having a really strong film industry that was using these tools? Like, that would be a fascinating sort of angle on this. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.[00:35:25] swyx (2): Agreed. I, I, I Oh, sorry. Go ahead.[00:35:29] Exploring Video Avatar Companies[00:35:29] swyx (2): Just for people's Just to put it on people's radar as well, Hey Jen, there's like there's a category of video avatar companies that don't specifically, don't specialize in general video.[00:35:41] swyx (2): They only do talking heads, let's just say. And HeyGen sings very well.[00:35:45] Brian: Swyx, you know that that's what I've been using, right? Like, have, have I, yeah, right. So, if you see some of my recent YouTube videos and things like that, where, because the beauty part of the HeyGen thing is, I, I, I don't want to use the robot voice, so [00:36:00] I record the mp3 file for my computer, And then I put that into HeyGen with the avatar that I've trained it on, and all it does is the lip sync.[00:36:09] Brian: So it looks, it's not 100 percent uncanny valley beatable, but it's good enough that if you weren't looking for it, it's just me sitting there doing one of my clips from the show. And, yeah, so, by the way, HeyGen. Shout out to them.[00:36:24] AI Influencers and Their Future[00:36:24] swyx (2): So I would, you know, in terms of like the look ahead going, like, looking, reviewing 2024, looking at trends for 2025, I would, they basically call this out.[00:36:33] swyx (2): Meta tried to introduce AI influencers and failed horribly because they were just bad at it. But at some point that there will be more and more basically AI influencers Not in a way that Simon is but in a way that they are not human.[00:36:50] Simon: Like the few of those that have done well, I always feel like they're doing well because it's a gimmick, right?[00:36:54] Simon: It's a it's it's novel and fun to like Like that, the AI Seinfeld thing [00:37:00] from last year, the Twitch stream, you know, like those, if you're the only one or one of just a few doing that, you'll get, you'll attract an audience because it's an interesting new thing. But I just, I don't know if that's going to be sustainable longer term or not.[00:37:11] Simon: Like,[00:37:12] Simplifying Content Creation with AI[00:37:12] Brian: I'm going to tell you, Because I've had discussions, I can't name the companies or whatever, but, so think about the workflow for this, like, now we all know that on TikTok and Instagram, like, holding up a phone to your face, and doing like, in my car video, or walking, a walk and talk, you know, that's, that's very common, but also, if you want to do a professional sort of talking head video, you still have to sit in front of a camera, you still have to do the lighting, you still have to do the video editing, versus, if you can just record, what I'm saying right now, the last 30 seconds, If you clip that out as an mp3 and you have a good enough avatar, then you can put that avatar in front of Times Square, on a beach, or whatever.[00:37:50] Brian: So, like, again for creators, the reason I think Simon, we're on the verge of something, it, it just, it's not going to, I think it's not, oh, we're going to have [00:38:00] AI avatars take over, it'll be one of those things where it takes another piece of the workflow out and simplifies it. I'm all[00:38:07] Simon: for that. I, I always love this stuff.[00:38:08] Simon: I like tools. Tools that help human beings do more. Do more ambitious things. I'm always in favor of, like, that, that, that's what excites me about this entire field.[00:38:17] swyx (2): Yeah. We're, we're looking into basically creating one for my podcast. We have this guy Charlie, he's Australian. He's, he's not real, but he pre, he opens every show and we are gonna have him present all the shorts.[00:38:29] Simon: Yeah, go ahead.[00:38:30] The Importance of Credibility in AI[00:38:30] Simon: The thing that I keep coming back to is this idea of credibility like in a world that is full of like AI generated everything and so forth It becomes even more important that people find the sources of information that they trust and find people and find Sources that are credible and I feel like that's the one thing that LLMs and AI can never have is credibility, right?[00:38:49] Simon: ChatGPT can never stake its reputation on telling you something useful and interesting because That means nothing, right? It's a matrix multiplication. It depends on who prompted it and so forth. So [00:39:00] I'm always, and this is when I'm blogging as well, I'm always looking for, okay, who are the reliable people who will tell me useful, interesting information who aren't just going to tell me whatever somebody's paying them to tell, tell them, who aren't going to, like, type a one sentence prompt into an LLM and spit out an essay and stick it online.[00:39:16] Simon: And that, that to me, Like, earning that credibility is really important. That's why a lot of my ethics around the way that I publish are based on the idea that I want people to trust me. I want to do things that, that gain credibility in people's eyes so they will come to me for information as a trustworthy source.[00:39:32] Simon: And it's the same for the sources that I'm, I'm consulting as well. So that's something I've, I've been thinking a lot about that sort of credibility focus on this thing for a while now.[00:39:40] swyx (2): Yeah, you can layer or structure credibility or decompose it like so one thing I would put in front of you I'm not saying that you should Agree with this or accept this at all is that you can use AI to generate different Variations and then and you pick you as the final sort of last mile person that you pick The last output and [00:40:00] you put your stamp of credibility behind that like that everything's human reviewed instead of human origin[00:40:04] Simon: Yeah, if you publish something you need to be able to put it on the ground Publishing it.[00:40:08] Simon: You need to say, I will put my name to this. I will attach my credibility to this thing. And if you're willing to do that, then, then that's great.[00:40:16] swyx (2): For creators, this is huge because there's a fundamental asymmetry between starting with a blank slate versus choosing from five different variations.[00:40:23] Brian: Right.[00:40:24] Brian: And also the key thing that you just said is like, if everything that I do, if all of the words were generated by an LLM, if the voice is generated by an LLM. If the video is also generated by the LLM, then I haven't done anything, right? But if, if one or two of those, you take a shortcut, but it's still, I'm willing to sign off on it.[00:40:47] Brian: Like, I feel like that's where I feel like people are coming around to like, this is maybe acceptable, sort of.[00:40:53] Simon: This is where I've been pushing the definition. I love the term slop. Where I've been pushing the definition of slop as AI generated [00:41:00] content that is both unrequested and unreviewed and the unreviewed thing is really important like that's the thing that elevates something from slop to not slop is if A human being has reviewed it and said, you know what, this is actually worth other people's time.[00:41:12] Simon: And again, I'm willing to attach my credibility to it and say, hey, this is worthwhile.[00:41:16] Brian: It's, it's, it's the cura curational, curatorial and editorial part of it that no matter what the tools are to do shortcuts, to do, as, as Swyx is saying choose between different edits or different cuts, but in the end, if there's a curatorial mind, Or editorial mind behind it.[00:41:32] Brian: Let me I want to wedge this in before we start to close.[00:41:36] The Future of LLM User Interfaces[00:41:36] Brian: One of the things coming back to your year end piece that has been a something that I've been banging the drum about is when you're talking about LLMs. Getting harder to use. You said most users are thrown in at the deep end.[00:41:48] Brian: The default LLM chat UI is like taking brand new computer users, dropping them into a Linux terminal and expecting them to figure it all out. I mean, it's, it's literally going back to the command line. The command line was defeated [00:42:00] by the GUI interface. And this is what I've been banging the drum about is like, this cannot be.[00:42:05] Brian: The user interface, what we have now cannot be the end result. Do you see any hints or seeds of a GUI moment for LLM interfaces?[00:42:17] Simon: I mean, it has to happen. It absolutely has to happen. The the, the, the, the usability of these things is turning into a bit of a crisis. And we are at least seeing some really interesting innovation in little directions.[00:42:28] Simon: Just like OpenAI's chat GPT canvas thing that they just launched. That is at least. Going a little bit more interesting than just chat, chats and responses. You know, you can, they're exploring that space where you're collaborating with an LLM. You're both working in the, on the same document. That makes a lot of sense to me.[00:42:44] Simon: Like that, that feels really smart. The one of the best things is still who was it who did the, the UI where you could, they had a drawing UI where you draw an interface and click a button. TL draw would then make it real thing. That was spectacular, [00:43:00] absolutely spectacular, like, alternative vision of how you'd interact with these models.[00:43:05] Simon: Because yeah, the and that's, you know, so I feel like there is so much scope for innovation there and it is beginning to happen. Like, like, I, I feel like most people do understand that we need to do better in terms of interfaces that both help explain what's going on and give people better tools for working with models.[00:43:23] Simon: I was going to say, I want to[00:43:25] Brian: dig a little deeper into this because think of the conceptual idea behind the GUI, which is instead of typing into a command line open word. exe, it's, you, you click an icon, right? So that's abstracting away sort of the, again, the programming stuff that like, you know, it's, it's a, a, a child can tap on an iPad and, and make a program open, right?[00:43:47] Brian: The problem it seems to me right now with how we're interacting with LLMs is it's sort of like you know a dumb robot where it's like you poke it and it goes over here, but no, I want it, I want to go over here so you poke it this way and you can't get it exactly [00:44:00] right, like, what can we abstract away from the From the current, what's going on that, that makes it more fine tuned and easier to get more precise.[00:44:12] Brian: You see what I'm saying?[00:44:13] Simon: Yes. And the this is the other trend that I've been following from the last year, which I think is super interesting. It's the, the prompt driven UI development thing. Basically, this is the pattern where Claude Artifacts was the first thing to do this really well. You type in a prompt and it goes, Oh, I should answer that by writing a custom HTML and JavaScript application for you that does a certain thing.[00:44:35] Simon: And when you think about that take and since then it turns out This is easy, right? Every decent LLM can produce HTML and JavaScript that does something useful. So we've actually got this alternative way of interacting where they can respond to your prompt with an interactive custom interface that you can work with.[00:44:54] Simon: People haven't quite wired those back up again. Like, ideally, I'd want the LLM ask me a [00:45:00] question where it builds me a custom little UI, For that question, and then it gets to see how I interacted with that. I don't know why, but that's like just such a small step from where we are right now. But that feels like such an obvious next step.[00:45:12] Simon: Like an LLM, why should it, why should you just be communicating with, with text when it can build interfaces on the fly that let you select a point on a map or or move like sliders up and down. It's gonna create knobs and dials. I keep saying knobs and dials. right. We can do that. And the LLMs can build, and Claude artifacts will build you a knobs and dials interface.[00:45:34] Simon: But at the moment they haven't closed the loop. When you twiddle those knobs, Claude doesn't see what you were doing. They're going to close that loop. I'm, I'm shocked that they haven't done it yet. So yeah, I think there's so much scope for innovation and there's so much scope for doing interesting stuff with that model where the LLM, anything you can represent in SVG, which is almost everything, can now be part of that ongoing conversation.[00:45:59] swyx (2): Yeah, [00:46:00] I would say the best executed version of this I've seen so far is Bolt where you can literally type in, make a Spotify clone, make an Airbnb clone, and it actually just does that for you zero shot with a nice design.[00:46:14] Simon: There's a benchmark for that now. The LMRena people now have a benchmark that is zero shot app, app generation, because all of the models can do it.[00:46:22] Simon: Like it's, it's, I've started figuring out. I'm building my own version of this for my own project, because I think within six months. I think it'll just be an expected feature. Like if you have a web application, why don't you have a thing where, oh, look, the, you can add a custom, like, so for my dataset data exploration project, I want you to be able to do things like conjure up a dashboard, just via a prompt.[00:46:43] Simon: You say, oh, I need a pie chart and a bar chart and put them next to each other, and then have a form where submitting the form inserts a row into my database table. And this is all suddenly feasible. It's, it's, it's not even particularly difficult to do, which is great. Utterly bizarre that these things are now easy.[00:47:00][00:47:00] swyx (2): I think for a general audience, that is what I would highlight, that software creation is becoming easier and easier. Gemini is now available in Gmail and Google Sheets. I don't write my own Google Sheets formulas anymore, I just tell Gemini to do it. And so I think those are, I almost wanted to basically somewhat disagree with, with your assertion that LMS got harder to use.[00:47:22] swyx (2): Like, yes, we, we expose more capabilities, but they're, they're in minor forms, like using canvas, like web search in, in in chat GPT and like Gemini being in, in Excel sheets or in Google sheets, like, yeah, we're getting, no,[00:47:37] Simon: no, no, no. Those are the things that make it harder, because the problem is that for each of those features, they're amazing.[00:47:43] Simon: If you understand the edges of the feature, if you're like, okay, so in Google, Gemini, Excel formulas, I can get it to do a certain amount of things, but I can't get it to go and read a web. You probably can't get it to read a webpage, right? But you know, there are, there are things that it can do and things that it can't do, which are completely undocumented.[00:47:58] Simon: If you ask it what it [00:48:00] can and can't do, they're terrible at answering questions about that. So like my favorite example is Claude artifacts. You can't build a Claude artifact that can hit an API somewhere else. Because the cause headers on that iframe prevents accessing anything outside of CDNJS. So, good luck learning cause headers as an end user in order to understand why Like, I've seen people saying, oh, this is rubbish.[00:48:26] Simon: I tried building an artifact that would run a prompt and it couldn't because Claude didn't expose an API with cause headers that all of this stuff is so weird and complicated. And yeah, like that, that, the more that with the more tools we add, the more expertise you need to really, To understand the full scope of what you can do.[00:48:44] Simon: And so it's, it's, I wouldn't say it's, it's, it's, it's like, the question really comes down to what does it take to understand the full extent of what's possible? And honestly, that, that's just getting more and more involved over time.[00:48:58] Local LLMs: A Growing Interest[00:48:58] swyx (2): I have one more topic that I, I [00:49:00] think you, you're kind of a champion of and we've touched on it a little bit, which is local LLMs.[00:49:05] swyx (2): And running AI applications on your desktop, I feel like you are an early adopter of many, many things.[00:49:12] Simon: I had an interesting experience with that over the past year. Six months ago, I almost completely lost interest. And the reason is that six months ago, the best local models you could run, There was no point in using them at all, because the best hosted models were so much better.[00:49:26] Simon: Like, there was no point at which I'd choose to run a model on my laptop if I had API access to Cloud 3. 5 SONNET. They just, they weren't even comparable. And that changed, basically, in the past three months, as the local models had this step changing capability, where now I can run some of these local models, and they're not as good as Cloud 3.[00:49:45] Simon: 5 SONNET, but they're not so far away that It's not worth me even using them. The other, the, the, the, the continuing problem is I've only got 64 gigabytes of RAM, and if you run, like, LLAMA370B, it's not going to work. Most of my RAM is gone. So now I have to shut down my Firefox tabs [00:50:00] and, and my Chrome and my VS Code windows in order to run it.[00:50:03] Simon: But it's got me interested again. Like, like the, the efficiency improvements are such that now, if you were to like stick me on a desert island with my laptop, I'd be very productive using those local models. And that's, that's pretty exciting. And if those trends continue, and also, like, I think my next laptop, if when I buy one is going to have twice the amount of RAM, At which point, maybe I can run the, almost the top tier, like open weights models and still be able to use it as a computer as well.[00:50:32] Simon: NVIDIA just announced their 3, 000 128 gigabyte monstrosity. That's pretty good price. You know, that's that's, if you're going to buy it,[00:50:42] swyx (2): custom OS and all.[00:50:46] Simon: If I get a job, if I, if, if, if I have enough of an income that I can justify blowing $3,000 on it, then yes.[00:50:52] swyx (2): Okay, let's do a GoFundMe to get Simon one it.[00:50:54] swyx (2): Come on. You know, you can get a job anytime you want. Is this, this is just purely discretionary .[00:50:59] Simon: I want, [00:51:00] I want a job that pays me to do exactly what I'm doing already and doesn't tell me what else to do. That's, thats the challenge.[00:51:06] swyx (2): I think Ethan Molik does pretty well. Whatever, whatever it is he's doing.[00:51:11] swyx (2): But yeah, basically I was trying to bring in also, you know, not just local models, but Apple intelligence is on every Mac machine. You're, you're, you seem skeptical. It's rubbish.[00:51:21] Simon: Apple intelligence is so bad. It's like, it does one thing well.[00:51:25] swyx (2): Oh yeah, what's that? It summarizes notifications. And sometimes it's humorous.[00:51:29] Brian: Are you sure it does that well? And also, by the way, the other, again, from a sort of a normie point of view. There's no indication from Apple of when to use it. Like, everybody upgrades their thing and it's like, okay, now you have Apple Intelligence, and you never know when to use it ever again.[00:51:47] swyx (2): Oh, yeah, you consult the Apple docs, which is MKBHD.[00:51:49] swyx (2): The[00:51:51] Simon: one thing, the one thing I'll say about Apple Intelligence is, One of the reasons it's so disappointing is that the models are just weak, but now, like, Llama 3b [00:52:00] is Such a good model in a 2 gigabyte file I think give Apple six months and hopefully they'll catch up to the state of the art on the small models And then maybe it'll start being a lot more interesting.[00:52:10] swyx (2): Yeah. Anyway, I like This was year one And and you know just like our first year of iPhone maybe maybe not that much of a hit and then year three They had the App Store so Hey I would say give it some time, and you know, I think Chrome also shipping Gemini Nano I think this year in Chrome, which means that every app, every web app will have for free access to a local model that just ships in the browser, which is kind of interesting.[00:52:38] swyx (2): And then I, I think I also wanted to just open the floor for any, like, you know, any of us what are the apps that, you know, AI applications that we've adopted that have, that we really recommend because these are all, you know, apps that are running on our browser that like, or apps that are running locally that we should be, that, that other people should be trying.[00:52:55] swyx (2): Right? Like, I, I feel like that's, that's one always one thing that is helpful at the start of the [00:53:00] year.[00:53:00] Simon: Okay. So for running local models. My top picks, firstly, on the iPhone, there's this thing called MLC Chat, which works, and it's easy to install, and it runs Llama 3B, and it's so much fun. Like, it's not necessarily a capable enough novel that I use it for real things, but my party trick right now is I get my phone to write a Netflix Christmas movie plot outline where, like, a bunch of Jeweller falls in love with the King of Sweden or whatever.[00:53:25] Simon: And it does a good job and it comes up with pun names for the movies. And that's, that's deeply entertaining. On my laptop, most recently, I've been getting heavy into, into Olama because the Olama team are very, very good at finding the good models and patching them up and making them work well. It gives you an API.[00:53:42] Simon: My little LLM command line tool that has a plugin that talks to Olama, which works really well. So that's my, my Olama is. I think the easiest on ramp to to running models locally, if you want a nice user interface, LMStudio is, I think, the best user interface [00:54:00] thing at that. It's not open source. It's good.[00:54:02] Simon: It's worth playing with. The other one that I've been trying with recently, there's a thing called, what's it called? Open web UI or something. Yeah. The UI is fantastic. It, if you've got Olama running and you fire this thing up, it spots Olama and it gives you an interface onto your Olama models. And t

This Week in Startups is brought to you by… Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website! Go to https://www.Squarespace.com/TWIST for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. LinkedIn Jobs. A business is only as strong as its people, and every hire matters. Go to https://www.linkedin.com/twist to post your first job for free. Terms and conditions apply Kalshi. The largest regulated predictions market—now lets you trade on US elections. Visit kalshi.com/twist to see live odds, trade, and get $20 when you deposit $100. * Timestamps: (0:00) Jason and Alex kick off the show (4:10) Heritage Foundation's stance on election integrity and fraud (11:18) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://www.Squarespace.com/TWIST (12:48) Technological improvements for secure elections (21:07) Hans von Spakovsky's perspective on the 2020 election (22:29) LinkedIn Ads -  Get a $100 LinkedIn ad credit at http://www.linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups (24:01) Election security and legal consequences of fraud (30:06) Closing remarks on election security (32:11) Reflecting on the election fraud discussion and transfer of power (31:00) (28:22) Kalshi - Visit https://www.kalshi.com/twist today to see live election odds, place a trade, and get $20 dollars when you deposit $100. (36:06) Introduction of Rafat Ali and discussion on Uber-Expedia rumors (42:16) Evaluating the potential Uber-Expedia acquisition (45:04) Challenges and consumer behavior in online travel industry (48:33) Future of loyalty programs and travel industry partnerships (52:17) Uber's strategic moves in the travel sector (57:00) AI advancements in travel and media (1:00:19) Media strategies and data monetization (1:05:21) Skift's business model, LinkedIn's role, and remote work strategies (1:11:24) Skift's growth and potential IPO discussion (1:13:18) Uber's expansion into the airline industry (1:15:41) Latest developments in AI with Anthropic's Claude 3.5 model (1:20:07) Announcement of Angel University workshop * Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com Check out the TWIST500: https://www.twist500.com Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp * Mentioned on the show: Check out The Heritage Foundation: https://www.heritage.org/ Check out The Heritage Foundation's database: https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud Check out Skift: https://skift.com/ * Follow Hans: X: https://x.com/HvonSpakovsky LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hans-von-spakovsky-0a544913/ Follow Rafat: X: https://x.com/rafat LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rafatali/ * Follow Alex: X: https://x.com/alex LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm * Follow Jason: X: https://twitter.com/Jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis * Thank you to our partners: (11:18) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://www.Squarespace.com/TWIST (22:29) LinkedIn Ads -  Get a $100 LinkedIn ad credit at http://www.linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups (31:00) (28:22) Kalshi - Visit https://www.kalshi.com/twist today to see live election odds, place a trade, and get $20 dollars when you deposit $100. * Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland * Check out Jason's suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis * Follow TWiST: Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com * Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@founderuniversity1916

In this special bonus episode of The Skift Meetings Podcast, Skift CEO Rafat Ali is joined by Skift Meetings Executive Editor Andrea Doyle and Head of Events Programming Brian Quinn to discuss the current state of conferences.  Prompted by Ali's LinkedIn post critiquing the lack of thoughtful programming, attendee experience, and speaker support at conferences, the panel explores the importance of content in driving successful events. They emphasize that while logistics and technology have improved, the core issue remains the quality of on-stage programming. Ali and the team highlight the need for event organizers to prioritize speaker experience and content curation, noting that effective conferences should focus on delivering valuable insights and fostering networking opportunities. They also discuss the role of experiential elements and the necessity of creating an engaging atmosphere to make conferences more appealing and beneficial for attendees. The trio wraps up the conversation with reflections on the evolving events landscape and the continuous need for innovation and thoughtful execution in conference planning.

Episode Notes Marriott and Hilton are in fierce competition regarding the growth of their portfolios and loyalty programs. But Marriott is the clear winner in terms of fees earned from services for hotel owners, writes Senior Hospitality Editor Sean O'Neill in this week's Early Check-In.  Hotel groups charge owners fees for managing or franchising hotels. Marriott generated $1.24 billion in gross fee revenue last year while Hilton generated $773 million. While Hilton's fee revenue is growing faster than Marriott's, O'Neill notes that Marriott's lead is so large that it would take Hilton 40 years to catch up if current trends remained the same.  Next, Google recently launched AI-driven search capabilities as well as a more advanced Gemini AI model. Skift CEO and founder Rafat Ali provided his take on the new offerings.  Ali writes that AI Overview stands out as a key feature in Google Search, and provides comprehensive summaries for complex travel queries. One query – “What's the best time to visit London?” – generated a curated overview with suggested itineraries, travel tips and related multimedia content.  The travel information landscape is now infinitely more complex, as Google is pulling results from across many different media and display formats. Reddit as a source of competition for any travel information query is the biggest new change in search in 2024. Finally, Spirit Airlines has joined fellow ultra-low-cost carrier Frontier in dropping change and cancellation fees, writes Airlines Reporter Meghna Maharishi.  Maharishi reports Spirit appeared to quietly remove most change and cancellation fees from its website this past weekend. Spirit now doesn't charge any fare classes, except for group bookings. The company had charged between $69 and $119 to change or cancel a reservation, depending on the number of days before departing.  Spirit said the move was part of its strategy to return to profitability. Spirit and Frontier are among a growing number of U.S. carriers that have eliminated change fees in recent years. American, Delta and United all scrapped change fees during the pandemic, except for the cheapest and most restrictive fares. 

Rafat Ali, the CEO & Founder of SKIFT, the leading news source for travel executives, had a wide-ranging discussion with Alexandra & self on India! Skift (verb) - origin: Nordic languages - meaning: Shift; transformation. We could definitely say that India is Skifting, transforming in so many ways, specially when it come to travel. We touched on the "small" Indian weddings, love for mangoes, "juggad" when it comes to sustainability! Home to perhaps the world's largest airline in the not too distant future. And what happens when Mum comes to your conference for the very first time! Hope you enjoy the discussion as much as we did! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today we feature a discussion that took place on stage at the inaugural Skift India Summit this month in New Delhi, India. In this conversation Eric Garcetti, United States Ambassador to the Republic of India, speaks with Rafat Ali, Founder & CEO of Skift, about "Bridging the U.S. and India in the Decade Ahead". For more like this, visit live.skift.com to learn how you can attend our next industry defining live event. 

Episode Notes Ennismore co-CEO and founder Sharan Pasricha believes India is a sleeping giant in the lifestyle hotel sector, writes Middle East Reporter Josh Corder.   Pasricha told Senior Hospitality Editor Sean O'Neill at the Skift India Summit on Wednesday that the new wave of lifestyle hotels could be in India. Ennismore currently doesn't have any hotels in India in its portfolio. But Pasricha said that could change as soon as this year, citing India's growing middle class and infrastructure improvements as reasons why lifestyle hotels could thrive in the country. Next, Eric Garcetti, U.S. Ambassador to India, is eager to see U.S. travel demand for India increase, writes Travel Technology Reporter Justin Dawes. Garcetti told Skift CEO and founder Rafat Ali at the Skift India Summit that Americans don't know India as well as Indians know the U.S. Garcetti said a lot of work needs to be done to promote India as a tourism destination. But he noted India's tourism infrastructure has gotten a boost from the growth of the country's aviation industry.  Garcetti also addressed the lengthy waits many Indian travelers have endured to obtain U.S. visitor visas. Although the U.S. government has been able to reduce average wait times, he said there's work to do as travel demand to the U.S. increases.  We end today with a look at Keshav Suri, a hotel owner looking to increase support for India's LGBTQ+ community.  Suri, the executive director of the LaLiT Suri Hospitality Group, told Senior Hospitality Editor O'Neill at the Skift India Summit that his company has a loyal customer base among the LGBTQ+ community. He added that being supportive of the community is a competitive advantage. Suri, whose company operates roughly a dozen hotels across India, added that he would like to see more research done on the LGBTQ+ market.

In our fifth and final episode covering Skift's Megatrends for 2024, Editor-in-chief Sarah Kopit is joined by Skift Founder and CEO Rafat Ali to discuss two megatrends centered around technology, demographics, and the future of the human condition. You can see all of Skift's Megatrends for 2024 right now at Skift.com/megatrends.

In this episode Alex, Brian, and Troy, with guest Rafat Ali, discuss the future of technology, focusing on the Apple Vision Pro's impact on work, personal life, and media consumption. They explore its potential to revolutionize how we interact with digital content and the broader implications for traditional media and AI in content creation.Troy Young's People vs Algorithms newsletterBrian Morrissey's The Rebooting newsletterAlex Schleifer's Universal EntitiesFollow Alex, Brian and Troy on Twitter

Sarah Kopit, editor in chief of Skift, talks with James Shillinglaw of Insider Travel Report about the 12 megatrends that the editors of her online travel news and travel research publication, owned by Rafat Ali, have identified that will influence travel for 2024. For more information, visit https://skift.com/megatrends-2024. If interested, the original video of this podcast can be found on the Insider Travel Report Youtube channel or by searching for the podcast's title on Youtube.

EPISODE 1911: In this KEEN ON show, Andrew talks to Rafat Ali, founder & CEO of Skift, about the impact of AI on the travel industry.Rafat Ali is the CEO/Founder of Skift, the largest business intelligence and marketing platform in travel, providing news, information, data, and services to all sectors of the world's largest industry. Previously, he was the founder/CEO of paidContent and ContentNext, which he sold to UK's Guardian News and Media in 2008, and left in 2010. Prior to that, he was managing editor of Silicon Alley Reporter. Rafat was the Knight Fellow at Indiana University, where he completed his Masters in Journalism, 1999-2000. Prior to that he completed his BSc in Computer Engineering, from AMU in Aligarh, India.Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting KEEN ON, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy show. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.

One year ago, on January 8 2023, China began reopening to tourism. In our first dispatch of 2024, Skift founder and CEO, Rafat Ali, talks with Check-In Asia director, Gary Bowerman, to discuss the state of Chinese tourism. It is a wide-ranging conversation covering the evolution of the Chinese reopening, how China is addressing the "3 pillars" of travel and tourism, visas, the importance of travel influencers in China, and much more. If you enjoy this conversation visit skift.com for breaking travel news, the latest research, and industry-defining events.

Today we feature Hany Abdelkawi, Head of Travel Sales for Google, in conversation with Skift CEO and Founder, Rafat Ali, on stage in Dubai at Skift Global Forum East this December. They spoke on the topic of "Connections in the Age of AI". Visit live.skift.com to learn more about how you can attend or view our next industry defining event.

Destination marketing is one of the biggest forces powering the travel industry that we rarely talk about. It's the Goliath economic influencer hiding in plain sight, using its invisible hand to directly and indirectly guide the way we think about where to travel, how to travel, and what we do once when we get there.And it's an industry in tremendous flux: Covid, “revenge travel”, rising interest rates, stimmy checks, overtourism, the ‘work from anywhere' trend, sustainability, war, Gen Z & the influencer demographic, TikTok and (of course) AI have all had an impact on how destinations position themselves to their various constituencies.How are destinations managing this revolution in their business? Guests Dr. Richie Karaburun of NYU's Tisch Center of Hospitality and Rafat Ali, founder of travel trade media outlet Skift, join the pod to talk about the places and institutions leading this next generation of destination marketing, how to address ethical concerns with tourism, and how technology is creating new approaches to influencing where and how we travel.Destination Marketing: bigger than you thinkDestinations as products, destinations as brandsAre we over overtourism?What does “sustainability” mean for a destination?Making the pie bigger: how are destinations expanding their focus on inclusivity?Technology: AI, TikTok, personalization vs. mass marketIs tourism a force for good?Follows:Travel Tech Insider podcastGilad Berenstein - hostCara Whitehill - hostDr. Richie Karaburun - guestRafat Ali - guestGo Deeper:Destinations International organizationArchitects of Destination Advocacy podcast by Destinations InternationalSkift Tourism Skift's hub for destination marketing & tourism coverageMesa recognized as one of the most accessible destinations by travel booking app AZ FamilyNYU SPS Tisch Center of Hospitality, Destinations International collaborate **Hotel ManagementDestination organizations: Supporting the tourism industry, sustainable travel, and more HospitalityNet

As we prepare to return to Dubai on December 12-14, we're revisiting a few of the most popular sessions. This episode of the Skift Travel Podcast is a rebroadcast of a session that took place at Skift Global Forum East in December of last year: His Excellency Helal Saeed Almarri, Director General of Dubai Department of Economy & Tourism, speaks with Rafat Ali, Founder & CEO of Skift, on the topic of "Bringing Travel into the Future". Visit live.skift.com for info on how to attend or view Skift Global Forum East 2023.

Today on the podcast we feature Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi in conversation with Skift Founder and CEO Rafat Ali onstage at Skift Global Forum in New York City last month.  Among a litany of subjects, Khosrowshahi discusses Uber's high burn rate, its use of artificial intelligence, upcoming product releases like Uber Teens, Uber becoming a super app, and how essential the delivery service (Uber Eats) is to the business today.  Visit live.skift.com to learn how you can attend our next industry defining live event. Up next is the Skift Aviation Forum, coming to Ft Worth, Texas on November 1.

Our new episode is an inspiring conversation with Rafat Ali, CEO of a Skift.  Ren and Rafat talk about leading a global team through tough times and how to balance parenthood with a CEO's role. Join us for valuable insights and personal anecdotes in this week's episode of Great Minds People & Culture Podcast.

Today on the show, we play a rousing session from the recent 10th Annual Skift Global Forum that was held in New York City late last month.  The session, titled "Travel's Future as AI Reshapes The World," features tech entrepreneur, investor, and podcast host, Jason Calacanis, along with Brad Gerstner, founder and CEO of Silicon Valley investment firm Altimeter, in discussion with Skift Founder and CEO Rafat Ali about the coming days when generative AI will become reliable and have a real effect on how the world operates. And they believe that could be the case in some areas in as soon as a year. If you enjoy this insightful and, at times, provocative conversation, learn about how to attend our next next Skift Live event by visiting Live.Skift.com. You can also find full video recordings of this session and many others at skift.com and on the official Skift News YouTube channel.

Rafat Ali, founder and CEO of Skift and Skift Global Forum, talks with James Shillinglaw of Insider Travel Report at New York's Jacob Javits Center last week about his annual conference focused on travel technology and travel marketing, which celebrated its 10th anniversary this year. Ali's annual event attracts many of the travel world's top executives in hotels, online travel, tours, cruises, transportation, travel marketing and more, making it essential for those who want to be up to date and in the know about the latest thinking and trends. For more information, visit www.skift.com. If interested, the original video of this podcast can be found on the Insider Travel Report Youtube channel or by searching for the podcast's title on Youtube.  

Episode Notes Travel executives from some of the industry's most important companies will be speaking at the 10th annual Skift Global Forum this week in New York City and they'll address a wide range of topics.  When it comes to the future of travel, Skift CEO and founder Rafat Ali has outlined four major themes that will impact travel the most: demographic shifts, the widespread loneliness crisis, the evolving future of work and the urgent need for climate adaptation.  All pose significant challenges – but also opportunities. As the world's population ages rapidly, the travel industry can craft experiences for an older yet increasingly active population. To address loneliness, it can create group travels centered around shared interests and themes. Next, Hospitality group Ennismore has taken major steps to market its all-inclusive resorts in its push for 100 resorts by 2027, reports Senior Hospitality Editor Sean O'Neill. The company's all-inclusive resort collection currently has 38 properties, and Ennismore co-CEO Gaurav Bhushan expressed confidence his company could stand out in a segment that O'Neill notes is typically dominated by generic offerings.  Finally, tourism-dependent destinations such as Morocco and Maui have been decimated by natural disasters recently. Associate Editor Rashaad Jorden turns to Ask Skift, our artificial intelligence chatbot, to find out how events like earthquakes and wildfires impact tourism. As the aftermath of natural disasters often includes massive trip cancellations, Jorden writes Maui might see a decrease in visitors for the foreseeable future. Analysts at T.D have predicted that Maui's rebound would “take years,” citing the two-year recovery for air travel demand to Puerto Rico after Hurricane Irma in 2017.  Meanwhile, one Morrocan-based expert said the tourism to Marrakech, near the recent earthquake's epicenter, would suffer for years, adding relying on the industry to revive would be illogical. However, Moroccan hotel managers have said business is gradually returning, especially with the upcoming World Bank Group annual meeting in Marrakech. 

In 2011, Rafat Ali launched Skift, a B2B publisher that covers the travel industry. At first, Skift was mainly monetized with advertising, but Rafat quickly realized that scaling a B2B niche outlet required a diverse set of business models that included memberships, research, events, and advertising. He also acquired multiple other media outlets that operated in adjacent industries. In an interview, Rafat walked us through this journey and explained how he managed to simplify the company's value proposition while embracing the complexity of multiple revenue models. We also spoke to Walter Frick, who ran the membership program for business publisher Quartz for nearly three years. He answered our questions about what motivates readers to convert into subscribers and what he learned when Quartz made the radical decision to completely remove its website paywall.

Ask Skift Is the AI Chatbot for the Travel Industry: Ask Skift Your Questions Episode Notes The solid performance of Marriott's premium hotels drove the world's largest hotel company to a strong second quarter. And now, Marriott is looking to add midscale hotels to its portfolio, reports Senior Hospitality Editor Sean O'Neill. O'Neill writes one reason Marriott has raised its 2023 outlook for profitability was that its hotels are mostly premium or above. He adds that travelers able to afford Marriott stays were largely sheltered from the economic concerns hitting the general population. Marriott's revenue per available room — a key hotel industry figure — rose roughly 13% in the second quarter from last year.  Marriott has also taken steps to boost its number of midscale hotels, with CEO Anthony Capuano indicating that Marriott would make a midscale push in Europe. O'Neill writes one factor driving Marriott's interest in the sector is that midscale properties are popular with developers, investors and owners. Midscale hotels tend to be fancier than economy hotels while still being considered affordable.  Next, the Biden administration has repeatedly taken aim at so-called junk fees, charges that aren't disclosed to consumers upfront. So what should the travel companies do? Give in. That's the message from Skift CEO and founder Rafat Ali in an open letter to the travel industry.  Ali argues that companies need to acknowledge that it's a real issue and tackle it head on and. In most cases, that will mean being more transparent. In some cases, getting rid of certain fees. Ali adds that there's bipartisan agreement in Washington, D.C. on the cracking down on junk fees and that consumer sentiment is 100% with it.  Finally, India's newest carrier Akasa Air has added an 20th aircraft to its fleet, making it eligible to fly internationally, writes Middle East and Asia Reporter Amrita Ghosh. Akasa Air CEO and founder Vinay Dube hailed the milestone as a major sign of the potential of India's aviation industry. Ghosh notes that Indian regulations require airlines to have at least 20 aircraft in their fleet to be eligible for international operations. Dube has said Akasa Air, which launched last year, is looking to fly to the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Eastern Africa among other regions. 

Welcome to the latest season of Media Voices: Big Noises! This season, sponsored by Glide Publishing Platform, we'll be talking to publishing people with something to say. Media Voices co-host Peter Houston is tired of hearing the same old industry buzzwords. The publishing platitudes are starting to wear a bit thin, and he's decided to see if he can shake the conversation up a bit by speaking to some of the biggest characters in the business. On this week's episode of Big Noises we hear from Skift founder Rafat Ali. He tells us about why he decided on eschewing the rush for VC funding in favour of more sustainable growth, how the travel information site is using AI in a practical way, and where so much of the media industry goes wrong when choosing priorities. He tells us about his lateral moves from tech expert to paid content specialist into founder of a premium B2B travel site. Thanks to Glide Publishing Platform who have sponsored this season of Media Voices: Big Noises. Glide exists to make publishers more successful by removing any need to get bogged down building Content Management Systems, providing an industry-leading SaaS tailored to let publishers do more and spend less. Publishers using Glide direct more resources at their audiences and products, and focus on building things that make them money. You do the content, Glide does the management. Glide have created 3 expert guides to getting much more from a new or headless CMS, created for editorial, technology, and product teams. You can get the whitepapers here.

In this episode, Rafat Ali and Colin Nagy sit down with Geetika Agrawal, Founder and CEO of Vacation With An Artisit (VAWAA), for a conversation on the evolving role of souvenirs in the modern travel economy.  As awareness of the impact travel can have on the environment grows, travelers are increasingly looking for ways to adopt more sustainable practices, and there is an emerging interest in finding alternative ways to commemorate trips without relying on physical mementos. Listen as they delve into the increasing trend of people choosing meaningful experiences over physical possessions, the benefits of backing local artisans, and the significance of storytelling as a form of souvenir.

Back in the early 2010s, I met a man named Rafat Ali, who'd just co-founded an online travel news company called Skift, and he gave me an assignment. And that changed everything. In my journey, Rafat has unlocked incredible next steps and new chapters, but we've never really talked to each other about his journey, the whole thing, from India to Indiana to New York and many circles opened and closed along the way. Culture shock, climbing the cliff face of a career in writing and journalism, triumphs, injustices, escapes and narrow passages, fearlessness lost and found again. This is Rafat's story and it's a great privilege to have had such a deep and generous conversation. Many lessons within. Spend some time with the mind of Rafat Ali. You'll be glad you did.

In late May, the Skift team returned from our annual retreat, which was held this year in Iceland. Still buzzing with the energy and lessons from that experience, we decided to share our insights in a special edition of the Skift podcast. CFO Michael Cunniff, Senior Director of Events Regina Yuen, and Human Resources head Mariana Ruiz joined CEO Rafat Ali to discuss their learnings about company retreats and the business of travel. As the conversation unfolded, they delved into the logistics and budgeting challenges of organizing company retreats. Cunniff and Yuen shared how coordinating flights, accommodations, and venues required careful planning and attention to detail, especially in a destination like Iceland with its unique logistical challenges. These Skift leaders reflected on the company's growth and the increasing number of employees attending the retreats. They discussed how the retreats fostered a sense of connection and collaboration, both within teams and across the entire company. Ruiz emphasized how the retreats deepened personal connections and ultimately enhanced work synergy among staffers.

In this special episode of the Skift Travel Podcast we introduce listeners to our newest show, the Skift Ideas podcast. Join travel industry thought leaders Rafat Ali and Colin Nagy on the new Skift Ideas podcast. On the Skift Ideas podcast we will immerse listeners in discussions regarding the latest innovations within the industry, focussing on the key topics of design, marketing, sustainability, experience and so much more.  This first episode looks at the current state of creativity and innovation within the travel industry, and what ideas are already transforming the way we look at travel.

Join travel industry thought leaders Rafat Ali and Colin Nagy on the new Skift Ideas podcast. On the Skift Ideas podcast we will immerse listeners in discussions regarding the latest innovations within the industry, focussing on the key topics of design, marketing, sustainability, experience and so much more.  This first episode looks at the current state of creativity and innovation within the travel industry, and what ideas are already transforming the way we look at travel.

As Skift continues on its mission to celebrate the groundbreaking creative projects and build the industry's go-to resource for the campaigns, designs, and ideas taking the industry to the next level, we are excited to launch the Skift Ideas Podcast.  Launching 15 June, the Skift Ideas Podcast will be a vibrant bi-weekly discussion with the thinkers, craftspeople and operators that are moving the travel and hospitality industries forward.  Leading the conversation will be industry thought leaders Rafat Ali and Colin Nagy, who along with special guests, will elevate the conversation around experience and creativity in the industry and discuss what it means to be truly innovative.

Episode Notes The short-term rental industry has experienced a major boom coming out of the pandemic. But Laurence Tosi, founder of investment firm WestCap, believes the sector's enormous growth is slowing down, reports Associate Editor Rashaad Jorden.  Tosi said that future growth for travel will moderate during a discussion at the Skift Short-Term Rental Summit on Wednesday. He also told Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali that companies like Sonder and Vacasa aiming to become profitable need to focus on having sustainable business models.  Tosi also touched on the rise of artificial intelligence in travel, urging travel brands to proceed carefully with how they use the technology. He cited Hopper as one company that has used AI extensively.  Next, several airlines are removing first class seats from long-haul international routes. However, Emirates Airlines isn't getting rid of the luxury offering, reports Edward Russell, editor of Airline Weekly, a Skift publication.  Emirates President Tim Clark said at a conference in Istanbul this week that long-haul first class is very important for the company. He added that more than 80 percent of its long-haul aircraft has first class seats. However, Russell notes that long-haul first class is a gradually disappearing product. Indeed, Qatar Airways recently announced that it wouldn't install first class on its future long-haul jets. Russell adds that airlines increasingly believe the necessary investment in the product isn't often worth the cost.  But some carriers have unveiled plans for first class seats on their longest flights, including Qantas Airways and Lufthansa. Russell writes those investments are driven in part by the increase in premium leisure travelers coming out of the pandemic.  Finally, the European Union and Google are teaming up to create a reliable measurement for flying's climate impact, which has long been challenging for the travel industry, reports Executive Editor Dennis Schaal. The European Union Aviation Safety Agency and Google announced on Wednesday they are teaming up to develop a framework for measuring a flight's emissions impact. Schaal writes that finding accurate measurements has been a thorny issue because the science is inexact. He adds the collaboration will help Google and partners develop its Travel Impact Model, a publicly accessible model for measuring flight emissions per passenger.  The Lufthansa Group has agreed to provide data for the emissions calculations. An executive at the safety agency said he believes the information will help travelers determine which flights may be more environmentally friendly.

Episode Notes People who want knowledge about the travel industry on Wednesday got a valuable new resource to obtain critical information. Skift unveiled Ask Skift, an artificial intelligence chatbot that will answer your questions focused on the travel sector, says Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali. Ali writes that a user can ask questions on Skift's website such as “How is Airbnb planning to leverage AI?” or “Who is IHG's CEO?” Ask Skift has been trained on the entirety of Skift archives over the last 11 years, including daily stories and research reports. The chatbot will also provide other specialized travel industry content and data in weeks to come. Ali said the emergence of generative AI is enabling Skift to have a question and answer-based relationship with readers that wasn't feasible before.  Next, JetBlue Airways believes it's taken a big step to boosting revenue. The company has made major updates effective Wednesday to its already lucrative loyalty program, reports Edward Russell, editor of Airline Weekly, a Skift publication.  JetBlue's updated loyalty program includes new elite Mosaic tiers and perks, including free business class upgrades and free helicopter transfers between JFK Airport and Manhattan. Russell writes that the driving force behind JetBlue's loyalty updates is the opportunity to earn more revenue. The New York-based carrier generated $100 million in loyalty-related revenue in the first quarter. That's a 14 percent year-over-year increase.  Finally, the Hawaii Tourism Authority is continuing to market the Aloha State despite not being allocated funding from the state legislature for the next two years. The agency is planning to award a huge contract to market Hawaii to the U.S. mainland, writes Global Tourism Reporter Dawit Habtemariam.  Habtemariam reports Hawaii Tourism Authority executives decided at a recent board meeting to award a marketing contract worth up to $51 million. The organization also plans to move forward with a $34 million contract for destination management as well as a nearly $3 million contract to market the state to Canadian travelers. Habtemariam adds the contact winners will be selected on May 22. 

Episode Notes Airbnb is on the cusp of an artificial intelligence-driven revolution, with the technology poised to radically transform the company's operations, it says. So what might change at the short-term rental giant by next year? CEO Brian Chesky explains Airbnb's plans in an interview with Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali. Despite recently unveiling a series of launches yesterday at its annual May product update event, Ali writes Airbnb hasn't yet announced exactly how it plans to use AI. But Chesky said the technology will be the driving force behind a totally new Airbnb, adding the company would use AI to rebuild its app. Chesky also said that Airbnb would eventually have more AI-augmented customer service.   Next, cruise line Lindblad Expeditions saw its occupancy rate soar in the first quarter — in large part due to its savvy marketing strategy, writes Global Tourism Reporter Dawit Habtemariam.  Lindblad's occupancy rate hit 81 percent during the quarter, a 15-percentage point jump from a year ago. Company executives expect the figure to continue its rise this year but not fully recover to pre-Covid levels in 2023. Habtemariam cites Lindblad's substantial investment in digital marketing as a factor in the company attracting more first-time guests. Lindblad's marketing in the past primarily included brochures and direct mail to prospective guests.  Lindblad generated roughly $143 million in revenue in the first quarter, a significant year-over-year jump. The company did record a net loss of about $400,000 during the period.  Finally, the Lufthansa Group, Europe's largest network carrier, is optimistic about a banner 2023. The company expects to achieve record summer revenue this year, reports Edward Russell, editor of Airline Weekly, a Skift publication.  Russell writes travel demand remains robust, Lufthansa expects to get a boost from the rise in premium leisure travel. Although the airline posted a more than $500 million net loss during the first quarter, CEO Carsten Spohr said it's on the verge of its strongest summer in terms of passenger revenue. Russell writes Lufthansa's bumper summer forecast isn't solely the result of torrid demand. Decreased aircraft availability will result in carriers flying less, helping increase airfares. 

About Our Guest:Rafat Ali is the CEO & Founder of Skift, the most influential business media & information company in the travel industry, providing news, research, events, and creative services to key stakeholders globally.Previously, he was the founder/CEO of paidContent and ContentNext, which he sold to UK's Guardian News and Media in 2008, and left in 2010. Prior to that, he was managing editor of Silicon Alley Reporter. Rafat was the Knight Fellow at Indiana University, where he completed his Masters in Journalism, 1999-2000. Prior to that he completed his BSc in Computer Engineering, from AMU in Aligarh, India.About Your Host:Anita Zielina is the CEO and founder of Better Leaders Lab. She's also an Executive in Residence at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY, where she spent the last few years leading all continuing and executive education initiatives. Anita serves as the inaugural Board Chair of News Product Alliance (NPA) and is a member of the board of directors at the Austrian Public Broadcaster ORF.For the past 15 years, Anita held senior executive positions focused on product, strategy and innovation in various media and education organizations as Chief Product Officer, Managing Editor Digital, Editor-in-Chief and Director Strategic Initiatives. She has worked with around 500 managers, leaders and entrepreneurs as a consultant, coach and educator.She holds a Master in Law from Vienna University and an Executive MBA from INSEAD. Anita is an alumna of the Stanford Knight Journalism Fellowship and the Oxford Reuters Institute Fellowship. About Better Leaders LabBetter Leaders Lab is a Do and Think Tank for good leadership and smart management in media and beyond and a boutique strategic advisory firm. BLL specializes in organizational change, strategy and scenario planning, leadership development and executive recruiting research. Its goal is to empower managers, leaders and organizations in the broader media, digital & innovation space to build successful, sustainable, modern and healthy businesses.Learn more:https://betterleaderslab.comGet in touchFeedback or questions related to the podcast?hello@betterleaderslab.com

In this week Cruise Convos SPECIAL, Claudine is joined by Rafat Ali, Founder & CEO of Skift, a company providing news & insights into the travel & tourism industry, named one of the most influential people in tourism worldwide!Rafat offers some outside perspective on the cruise industry trends & traveler behaviour.Plus, Claudine quizzes Rafat on how technological innovations will likely change travel marketing, tourism operations & traveler expectations into the future - from FinTech to generative AI!

Episode Notes New York City's tourism industry has made a monster recovery from the pandemic. But local officials still have concerns about its long-term future, writes Global Tourism Reporter Dawit Habtemariam. Habtemariam reports New York City hit 85 percent of its pre-Covid tourism volume last year. The city is expected to make a complete tourism recovery in 2024, according to New York City + Conventions. In addition, one New York-based tour guide said traditional attractions like the Empire State Building and Statue of Liberty are very close to hitting 2019 visitor numbers.   However, Habtemariam writes the city faces some underlying problems despite its tourism boom. A recent poll found that about 70 percent of New Yorkers are unhappy about the city's direction. Habtemariam notes that widespread discontent could make tourism promotion tougher. Furthermore, the popularity of hybrid and remote work is costing New York City roughly $12 billion. Habtemariam adds the loss of tax revenue can cause cities like New York City to cut back on infrastructure improvements, which could hurt tourism.  We turn next to another look at how artificial intelligence could significantly alter the travel industry. Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali argues that an AI-powered Google Maps will make the app even more powerful than it already is. Ali said that AI would make searching for suitable hotels and restaurants more relevant based on a user's history on Google Maps. In addition to becoming a game-changing app, he said in a video posted to his Twitter account that Google could emerge as a superapp. Superapps enable users to perform a myriad of tasks on one platform instead of having to resort to dozens of apps. Ali said that an AI-powered Google Maps might also provide a visual representation of search results.   Finally, Spain-based travel agency Pangea recently revealed it doubled its revenue from the first quarter of last year. How did it accomplish the feat? The company attributes the revenue boom in part to new stores, reports Senior Hospitality Editor Sean O'Neill.  O'Neill notes an $11 million fundraising round in 2019 not only helped Pangea survive the pandemic, but also enabled the company to open four stores around Spain. Pangea CEO David Hernández said the physical stores have attracted a new generation of travelers. He added the company is developing new technology that aims to further digitize the travel agency sector. 

Parag Khanna is an author, geopolitical scientist and founder of Climate Alpha, an AI-powered analytics platform forecasting asset values and future-proof global real estate, as well as FutureMap, a data and scenario-based strategic advisory firm. Khanna, who has also spoken at Skift events, shares in this recent interview with Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali his perspectives on travel, globalization and immigration and discusses a key theme from his latest book MOVE: Where People Are Going for a Better Future.

India is projected to surpass China as the world's most populous country later this year, as China begins to decline and India's population growth shows no sign of slowing until 2064. That shift carries huge implications for travel across the globe, and has the potential to rewire the race for attracting global tourists around the world. Skift addressed this in its Megatrends 2023 package in the story India Becoming the New China in the Reordering of Asia Travel. For this episode of the Skift Travel Podcast, Skift Founder and CEO Rafat Ali is joined by Senior Research Analyst Varsha Arora and Asia Editor Peden Doma Bhutia, in a focused discussion on India's growth, the demographic and economic challenges before India could become as big a force as Chinese outbound travelers have become, what changes have come in the domestic tourism market during and post-covid, and what the global tourism community looking to attract Indian travelers has to keep in mind.  This podcast builds off the discussion Ali and Senior Research Analyst Seth Borko had at the Skift Megatrends event earlier this month about the seminal moment of demographic switch about to happen this year, where India will become the world's most populous nation overtaking China, estimated some time this April.

Skift founder Rafat Ali interviewed Hilton CEO Christopher Nassetta via hologram Wednesday at Skift Global Forum East in Dubai. Nassetta said Hilton expects to organically develop its own new brands rather than chase costly acquisitions in part because “we don't want to have to fix other people's problems.” He said Hilton's brand portfolio more than doubled to 19 in the 15 years Nassetta has been at Hilton and they are all successful, although some are “a little bit early in gestation.” “We have designed these in a modern context around exactly what customers want and we built it out of the dust,” Nassetta said. “We built it with our own blood, sweat and tears rather than paying a big price. It's been great for our shareholders, infinite yields effectively by creating these, and creating brands that really resonate with our customer base.” Learn more about hotels at Skift.com/hotels. Read more about Hilton at Skift.com/tag/hilton.

A lot of ground was covered during Peter Kern's appearance at Skift Global Forum in New York City on September 21. The vice chairman and CEO of Expedia Group gave his take on technology, micro-services, mergers and acquisitions, and outlined why the online travel agencies still only control around 20 percent of a “multi-trillion dollar” travel market. "There's huge opportunity," Kern says. "You just have to innovate the products and innovate the business model over time." And of course he (delicately) responded to comments made earlier at the forum by Barry Diller, the chairman and senior executive of both Expedia Group and IAC, that working from home was “kind of stupid” and “a crock,”while in discussion with Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali. Listen now for the full conversation of the “Democratizing the Travel Ecosystem” session. Read more about Expedia on Skift. Get weekly updates about online travel by subscribing to our online travel newsletter.

Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali interviewed Chesky on stage at the Skift Global Forum in September 2022 in Manhattan, where the Airbnb CEO detailed his vision of the new era. Airbnb co-founder and CEO Brian Chesky said travel experts and analysts underestimate travel's potential, and that the industry would soon witness a new “golden age of travel.” Fueling part of the trend, he argued, is that an estimated 50 percent of U.S. workers could potentially labor on their laptops from home, and they would travel to get out of the house, and seek human connections. Chesky termed it a “dystopian” risk to people to remain glued to their screens all their day, and they will leave their homes to travel and combat loneliness. And they won't merely be traveling to places such as Las Vegas, Rome and Paris, but would venture out to some of the 100,000 cities and markets where Airbnb would try to inspire them to travel to. Listen to the podcast for the full discussion, and visit Skift Live for details about discussions like this.

The "real revenue growth" at American Airlines is in blended trips, or travel that includes both business and personal aspects, Chief Commercial Officer Vasu Raja said at the Skift Global Forum earlier in September. Nearly half of the airline's revenues now come from these blended trips. What's more, this new classification of trip is driving the carrier's revenue growth more than anything else today. “What the pandemic really unlocked, and the recovery from it, is the great merging,” Raja said. “People don't need to keep need to keep a work life for five days, personal life for two days, and carve out two weeks a year for vacations.” Listen to Skift Founder and CEO Rafat Ali and Raja's fascinating discussion at the forum in full.

The chairman and co-founder of Intrepid Travel has said there was too much “rhetorical flourish” from travel companies when it comes to discussing sustainability. Speaking at the Skift Sustainable Tourism Summit, Darrell Wade bemoaned how organizations were touting a “build back better” ethos, while failing to take action. “It's disappointing, embedded into marketing, or even worse the boardroom,” he said during the online event. “Half of the companies, probably more, will have done nothing. At the World Travel & Tourism Council, a good number of companies are talking the right way, and committing, but not enough are putting the rubber on the road.” While some companies had managed to go beyond what he described rhetorical flourish, he said travel companies needed to ensure there was”company engagement” from the top, and they needed to commit measurable action, including science based targets. “You need to sign up to have that line in the sand,” Wade told moderator Rafat Ali, Skift CEO and co-founder. “Sustainability is not easy, it's heavy lifting. Even one aspect like climate change, to work out a pathway to zero emissions, is a lot of work,” he added. For more insight into tourism, destinations, and sustainability, please visit https://skift.com/tourism.

Rafat Ali is the founder of Skift, a publication and events company monitoring the ever-evolving transformation into the future of travel.

We talk every week about the changes occurring in the restaurant industry. And that makes sense because we work in the restaurant industry. But few things affect our businesses more than tourism and the very nature of travel has changed. I wanted to dig deeper into what going on so I reached out to Rafat Ali of Skift. Rafat is an travel expert and his publication is the go-to resource of travel trends and the effect those trends are having on the larger industry. Today we talk about the trends and the disruptors making waves that will ripple into our industry and the way we connect with tourists. For more on Skift go to https://skift.com FULL COMP is brought to you by Yelp for Restaurants: In July 2020, a few hundred employees formed Yelp for Restaurants. Our goal is to build tools that help restaurateurs do more with limited time. ________________________________ CLICK HERE to Chat with Josh Free Download: 5 Steps to Achieve a 15% Net Profit We have a lot more content coming your way! Be sure to check out the FULL COMP media universe by visiting: FULL COMP Restaurant Marketing School The Playbook Industry Town Halls

Rafat is a pioneer in digital media. He launched his first company in 2002 and sold it six years later, to the Guardian, the big media company in the UK. He was also my boss at that company, called paidContent. But with his second business, called Skift, he hit a funding wall. With three months of cash left, he came clean to his staff about the company's financial condition. And then something unexpected happened.

Thanks for listening to the Skift Podcast. We have another podcast you can listen to every weekday morning. The Skift Daily Briefing podcast delivers the day's top headlines in under four minutes. Search for "Skift Daily Briefing" in your favorite podcast app to listen and subscribe. Here's the latest episode: Good morning from Skift. It's Thursday, January 6, in New York City. Here's what you need to know about the business of travel today. The travel industry faces numerous critical issues in the new year as many destinations grapple with the damage brought forth by Covid and its variants. Yet, six underappreciated storylines will define 2022 in travel, says Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali in a special episode of the Skift Podcast. One of those underappreciated storylines, Ali says, is destinations such as the United States, Latin America and Dubai deciding to remain open to tourism despite the emergence of Omicron, developments that will have enormous implications for their economies. Ali adds another storyline to keep on is Chinese travelers, saying that visitors from the world's most populous country will not be the economic force they were pre-pandemic as China becomes more isolationist. Next, corporate travel — a sector devastated by the pandemic — is still expected to struggle to reach to pre-Covid travel volumes in 2022 as video conferencing continues to replace large amounts of travel. However, some businesses operating in the sector are managing to attract investors, reports Corporate Travel Editor Matthew Parsons. One such company is the world's largest corporate travel agency, American Express Global Business Travel, which estimated it may only see corporate travel levels reach 70 percent of pre-pandemic figures. Amex GBT could see its shares trade on the New York Stock Exchange in the first half of this year if a planned merger with blank check company Apollo Strategic Growth Capital goes ahead. A venture capital executive told Skift that more investment firms are focused on the travel recovery and possible investment returns, adding that despite the general belief that corporate travel won't return to 2019 levels, a travel recovery above the 70 percent pre-pandemic figure projected by Amex GBT will be a boon for investors. We end today in Barbados. The Caribbean nation is home to a new online travel booking platform that's working to create new revenue streams for its tourism businesses, writes Global Tourism Reporter Lebawait Lily Girma. It is unusual in that it was launched by a destination itself. BookBarbados.com — which was launched at the end of 2021 — is a privately funded and owned online travel booking platform that allows users to make reservations for hotel stays, Airbnb rentals, and local tours in one place. It also aims to solve a problem several Caribbean countries have faced during the pandemic — delayed payments from major international tour operators. Close to 70 percent of hotels in the region had reported being owed significant amounts of money by May 2020. The platform's future goals include offering cruise booking for ships sailing out of Barbados as well as other services visitors to the country might seek, such as a personal trainer. Peter Harris, the website's founder, said he aims to expand the BookBarbados.com model to other Caribbean locations. For more travel stories and deep dives into the latest trends, head to skift.com. To find these stories and more insight into the business of travel, subscribe to Skift daily newsletter at skift.com/daily.

Cancellations and closures are on the rise as countries react to the Omicron variant. What does this mean for a recently optimistic travel industry? This special episode of the Skift Podcast features Skift founder and CEO, Rafat Ali, looking ahead to early 2022 and what impact the Omicron variant may have on the travel industry. Read more about travel and coronavirus at https://skift.com/coronavirus.

Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky acknowledged that enough affordable housing is a major challenge but argued that the new flexible nature of work wrought by the pandemic will see people migrating to city corridors and other less-dense locales where residences can be less expensive. In a fireside chat Tuesday with Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali at the opening event for Skift Global Forum 2021, Chesky said previously people needed to live in a certain city to work but with remote working taking hold people have more options. Listen now for the full interview with Skift CEO Rafat Ali.  Read more coverage of the travel industry at skift.com/news

In March of 2020, travel as we knew it abruptly ground to a near standstill. First cruise ships were docked, and then air travel quickly became limited to very special cases. Hotels stood empty except for those that held people in quarantine and the health care workers who cared for them. I think it’s fair to say that no industry has changed more as a result of COVID than travel. Today’s guest, Rafat Ali, has been at the forefront of understanding these changes, and the massive impact they are having on the entire industry. He is the founder and CEO of Skift, “the daily homepage for the world’s largest industry”, and perhaps the leading news source for travel executives. In today’s conversation, we’ll talk about the key changes happening in the world of travel that affect us all; why he believes in a reader-centric model optimized for travel professionals, rather than advertisers, and Skift’s recent decision to “debrand” their site.

As humans, we crave travel. It connects us to each other and the world around us. Or, as Rafat Ali, founder and CEO of Skift, a leading travel media company, puts it, “Travel as a human need is the default human condition.” But during the pandemic, that need went unfulfilled. Our ability to fly on an airplane, hop in an Uber, or stay in a hotel was drastically limited, if not put on pause. Now, travel is coming back...but just a little bit different. And that raises new questions for both the industry and travelers. Rafat joins the podcast to discuss how the pandemic has both accelerated existing trends and forced a break from the norms of the past -- and what the future of travel means for the world. Listen to this episode to learn: • How Skift takes an “outside in” approach to understanding changing travel behaviors and connects the dots to what it means for the travel industry • Lessons from the 2021 Skift Global Forum, and predictions from the CEOs of Airbnb, Hilton, and Uber about the future of travel • Why embracing flexibility for their customers and pivoting their core business (i.e., becoming cargo carriers) helped airlines survive the pandemic (along with big government subsidies) • How airports are redesigning their experience through the customers' lens -- from elevated food options to biometrics and “contactless” check-ins • Why we're seeing a boom in domestic travel and how travelers' rediscovery of the outdoors and local areas is helping small businesses thrive • How the hotel guest experience has changed as a result of the pandemic (and why your room might not get serviced daily ever again) • Google's new sustainability scores, sustainable aviation fuel, and ways in which the travel and hospitality industries are approaching “sustainability”

Researchers have found a methane-eating bacteria living in a common species of Australian tree. The UK is considering a legal “right to disconnect” for remote workers. Archaeologists in Saudi Arabia have uncovered evidence of the oldest domesticated dog in that region in what could be the beginning of huge insights about the development of human society across the Middle East. Uber just had their biggest month ever in a sign that certain businesses might not have much trouble bouncing back from last year’s losses. And what happens if a shark bites your arm off after you get your COVID vaccine? Do you have to get another dose? Dr. Akiko Iwasaki has the answer.Sponsors:Skillshare, Get a free trial of Premium Membership at skillshare.com/kottke Indeed, Get a free $75 credit at Indeed.com/goodnewsLinks:We found methane-eating bacteria living in a common Australian tree. It could be a game changer for curbing greenhouse gases (The Conversation)Ministers urged to give UK home-workers a ‘right to disconnect’ (The Guardian)Google is accelerating partial reopening of offices and putting limits on future of remote work (CNBC)Archaeologists uncover earliest evidence of domesticated dogs in Arabian Peninsula (EurekAlert)285: A Pill Meant for Horses (Dear Hank and John, Spotify)Antibody response after removal of muscle (Dr. Akiko Iwasaki, Twitter) Differential dependence on target site tissue for gene gun and intramuscular DNA immunizations (National Library of Medicine)Uber Posts Record Demand for March (Wall Street Journal)Airbnb/Vrbo inventory sold out (Rafat Ali, Twitter)AirDNA Market Review | US March 2021 (AirDNA)Airbnb is trying to preemptively cancel post-pandemic bacchanals (The Verge)Kottke.OrgJackson Bird on Twitter

Andrew Carne, bp's Global Workplace Procurement Manager & Ciaran Delaney, CEO of MeetingsBooker.com join Bold Founder, Caleb Parker to share insight into their partnership and how bp has balanced the wellbeing of their team members while maintaining their strategic pillars of safety and sustainability. Andrew shares how bp is evolving their portfolio strategy for hybrid working to empower their teams and enable success where face to face may be less frequent, but more valuable than ever before. We hear about how they've teamed up with meetingsbooker.com to enable over 10,000 employees to book space for focused or collaborative work (aka meetings with colleagues and customers) either near home or anywhere outside the head office via Meetingbooker's digital booking tool. bp did a £250M sale and leaseback deal on their London HQ, then right after did a deal with The Office Group for 50,000 SqFt of flexspace. We find out what signal we should take from that. The discussion goes on to cover the future of commercial real estate, including how the hospitality and commercial real estate industries are beginning to merge, with space operators and hotels starting to compete for workspace customers and a look at the parallels in the business travel industry. Watch the video version of this episode here: https://workbold.co.uk/workbold-podcast-season-4-episode-5 *Special shout out to Skift for publishing an early preview of this episode. Skift is the most influential media brand in the global travel industry, also known as the daily homepage of the global travel.  As of last year Skift is a fully-distributed company with no physical offices, and teams across various parts of U.S., Europe and Asia. Thank you Rafat Ali and team! LinkedIn Connect with Andrew on LinkedIn Connect with Ciaran on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs There is considerable change ahead bp is repurposing their portfolio for task based working; will result in a smaller footprint Hybrid working is the future for most people Important to have office environments accessible for certain types of work, and for people who can't work from home comfortably Duty of care is an important factor when evolving a workplace strategy Meetingsbooker.com helps bp meet their core pillars for development and governance to deliver optimal performance The digital booking platform balances the wellbeing of their team members while maintaining bp's strategic pillars of safety and sustainability. There is a convergence in demand for workspace and meeting rooms  Hotels are starting to compete for workspace customers Brand is important because it promises a consistent experience The hospitality and commercial real estate industries are beginning to merge Business travel procurement directors and real estate directors of enterprise companies are teaming up on workplace strategy We're seeing different use cases Some companies are reducing their office footprint, and booking space for their distributed team members to meet weekly Some companies who use workplace choice as a recruitment strategy are giving their distributed teams a budget to book 2 days per week with a local coworking operators across dozens of cities around the world Other companies with thousands of distributed team members are booking quarterly offsites to bring everyone together Digital booking tools are helping enterprise companies navigate this transition period from office first to more agile ways of working Every office landlord should be thinking about offering flexible space for people to tap into Offices won't go away, but they will become more flexible to manage fluctuating demand Former retail assets will be converted to flexible workspaces to accommodate work near home We're going to see more hotels partnering with coworking operators Resources Skift preview https://skift.com/2021/04/02/oil-and-gas-giant-bp-as-a-case-study-on-the-future-of-the-workplace/ bp + MB Case Study https://www.meetingsbooker.com/case-studies/bp   About Andrew Carne Andrew is Global Procurement Advisor for bp. Based in London, England, he globally leads the bp meetings and events programme, as part of bp's global reinvention of the workplace. Digital transformation and supply-chain agility is part of his everyday, to create the ecosystem bp needs today, and tomorrow. About Ciaran Delany Ciaran is CEO and Founder of Meetingsbooker.com (MB), the global leader in meeting and workspace bookings. With over 150,000 spaces globally, MB helps organisations to adapt to the new normal by creating a dedicated enterprise solution for global teams with inbuilt usage, expenditure and safety controls. In his position as founding CEO, he conceived the product vision, concept and direction and scaled the growth of the Meetingsbooker.com with meeting and work space across in 134 countries. In this time, he scaled the team, led product design, online marketing, strategic partnerships, and global enterprise client acquisition. MB has raised over €3 million funding from leading venture capitalists and angel investors. Prior to creating Meetingsbooker.com Ciaran spent 7 years with Tourism Ireland as Market Manager Norway, Italy and then Global Internet Manager. He then became Director of Marketing for the 1,344 bedroom Citywest Hotel where he doubled online revenue and then worked as an independent digital marketing consultant.   Sponsors Fortune Favours the Bold Bold merges property management & Space-as-a-Service to drive asset value and help office customers grow faster. Now part of NewFlex (www.workbold.co) Future Proof Your Portfolio with NewFlex NewFlex delivers and manages a range of branded solutions for every type of building, in every type of location, for every type of occupier. Including the flexibility to develop your own brand. All enabled by flexible management contracts where we are invested in making money for you. (www.newflex.com)   Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production company for brands, organizations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right equipment, training, and guidance to ensure you sound amazing. (https://www.apodcastcompany.com and www.podcastsyndicator.com)   Subscribe to the #WorkBold Podcast Apple | Spotify | Google | Stitcher | Podbean    

Future Trends in Hotels & Travel Show #83 - featuring Rafat Ali, CEO & Founder at Skift • Future innovations in hotels & travel. • Find out which disruptions to look out for. • Will business travel & events come back? + Get the latest hospitality & travel news with Sarah Dandashy Find live feeds - • LinkedIn: https://lnkd.in/dyCFFPQ • Youtube: https://lnkd.in/dmWNC_U

Rafat Ali's company nearly fell apart due to COVID, but remote work (among other things) saved them. Now the two-time media entrepreneur shares his thoughts on the future of travel - and a big personal announcement Get on the email list at remotelyinclined.substack.com

Since Skift's own launch it was the first media outlet to ask hard questions of Airbnb, and it has been amazing to document that journey of the company from start till its IPO day and beyond. Here are CEO Rafat Ali's thoughts in an audio essay. Read complete coverage of Airbnb at https://skift.com/tag/airbnb.

Airbnb filed for its IPO yesterday, and showed some glimmers of hope for a travel and hospitality industry that has been hit particularly hard by the pandemic. Dan speaks with Skift co-founder and CEO Rafat Ali about what he learned from Airbnb's IPO prospectus, lessons for hoteliers and what will be left once COVID-19 is contained. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The post E1097: Understanding the travel collapse & how media can thrive going forward with Skift CEO & Founder Rafat Ali appeared first on This Week In Startups.

The post E1097: Understanding the travel collapse & how media can thrive going forward with Skift CEO & Founder Rafat Ali appeared first on This Week In Startups.

In this week's episode, New Yor City-based Indian-American entrepreneur Rafat Ali joins the show for a chat about his company, Skift, the world's largest travel and tourism business intelligence and marketing platform, in the time of a pandemic. Rafat discusses the origins of his startup, what his hopes were, the product lines that work for him, industry insights and stakeholder, the problem with city brands in emerging markets, in the coronavirus era, the divisiveness of retail, short term rentals, change versus staying the same, and more. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/fil50/message

Good morning from Skift. It’s Tuesday, June 16, in New York City. For daily updates in your inbox, subscribe to the Skift Daily newsletter at skift.com/daily. And now, here’s what you need to know about the business of travel today. On the occasion of Europe opening up its borders this week, Skift founder Rafat Ali penned an essay about the expectation of global reopenings.

Rafat Ali created Skift, the travel industry insider source for news, insight and trends. In this episode of Unlocked, Rafat and Matt explore a post-covid world and what it means for vacation rentals, travel, and business survival. Please visit our sponsors, which made this episode possible: Breezeway’s operations platform makes it easy to ensure quality, safety, and cleanliness across your properties so you can deliver an amazing guest experience. https://www.breezeway.io/ PointCentral, the leader in business grade smart property solutions designed for rental properties.  PointCentral's technology helps vacation rental managers increase property safety, reduce operational costs and improve guest satisfaction. https://www.pointcentral.com/vrmb/ With over 1M Property Owners, Thousands of Property Managers, Hundreds of Software Partners and counting, RentalGuardian is one of the most complete and trusted travel and damage protection platforms in the industry. https://rentalguardian.com/ Other links and people mentioned in this episode: Skift: www.skift.com Skiff's Daily Newsletter: https://skift.com/newsletters/ VRMA's Safe Home: https://www.vrma.org/page/covid-19-cleaning-guidelines-1639 Finish Big by Bo Burlingham: https://www.amazon.com/-/es/gp/product/B00AMOO9VK/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i3 Small Giants by Bo Burlingham: https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Bo-mBurlingham/dp/014310960X Murder Hornets: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/02/us/asian-giant-hornet-washington.html    

Paddy Cosgrave is the co-founder of one of the most popular tech conferences in the world, Web Summit. With its Toronto iteration “Collision” approaching quickly, this year, as a result of the global pandemic, the event must be held online. He sits down with Recode’s Peter Kafka to detail how his team is pulling that off. Later, Rafat Ali, CEO and Founder of Skift, gives some insight on how his business and travel publication is adapting to the times as well. Featuring: Paddy Cosgrave (@paddycosgrave), CEO & Co-Founder of Web Summit Rafat Ali (@rafat), CEO & Co-Founder of Skift Host: Peter Kafka (@pkafka), Senior Editor at Recode More to explore: Subscribe for free to Recode Media, Peter Kafka, one of the media industry's most acclaimed reporters, talks to business titans, journalists, comedians, and more to get their take on today's media landscape. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the latest special edition of the BoF Podcast, Rafat Ali, founder and CEO of the B2B travel news site Skift, talks to BoF Editor-in-Chief Imran Amed about the tourism standstill following the outbreak of Covid-19 and its impact on travel retail.   Sign up for BoF’s Daily Digest newsletter here. Ready to become a BoF Professional? For a limited time, enjoy 25% discount on an annual membership, exclusively for podcast listeners. Simply, click here, select the Annual Package and use code PODCASTPRO at the checkout. For comments, questions, or speaker ideas, please e-mail: podcast@businessoffashion.com.For all sponsorship enquiries, it’s: advertising@businessoffashion.com.  

Rafat Ali, Founder and CEO of Skift, shares his candid opinions with David and Catherine on the failure of governments to form a coordinated response to the crisis. He also touches on the infrastructural and societal issues across the US and Europe that are likely to slow down the travel industry's return to normal. Rafat anticipates a new trend towards what he calls ‘radical localism' due to consumers becoming far more aware of the 5- to 10-block radius around where they live—taking greater notice of those nearby smaller businesses and how they're hurting. In contrast to other guests on the series, Rafat believes price (rather than brand) will drive demand in the short to medium terms, while travellers will also look for cleanliness, space and reputation. As a result, he argues, vacation rentals are likely to come back first because we can drive to them, avoid crowds and control the cleanliness of the space (even if that means bringing our own cleaning supplies).

Rafat Ali, founder and CEO of the travel industry publishing company Skift, is at the intersection of two of the most deeply impacted categories by the coronavirus: the travel industry and media and events. In this episode, Rafat talks about how Skift and the businesses it covers have responded to the crisis, and whether reality has set in that these industries may never reach their 2019 peaks.

You’ve read about the couple stuck in the Maldives. You’ve obsessively stalked ticket prices for Amsterdam in the fall. You’ve heard the cruise industry’s weary pleas for forgiveness. Now, it’s time to understand how—and if—the travel sector emerges from the pandemic that’s brought it to its knees. Today on Morning Brew’s Business Casual podcast, Rafat Ali, founder and CEO of travel media and research company Skift, explains what’s at stake for the global travel sector, plus why the rest of the economy is finally recognizing just how impactful the travel industry is.Ali breaks down what’s at stake for airlines, cruise lines, hotels, and one particular Silicon Valley home rental platform in this new norm—a norm that’s proving we can survive in a socially distant, vacation-free, remote-work world. Ali will also give you the final answer to the question you’re all wondering: When is the right time to buy plane tickets?Listen now to find out.

"Brands, stop launching podcasts. No chance you will break through. You just won't." That was a quote from Rafat Ali, Founder of Skift. Whilst I have a lot of respect for what Rafat has done with Skift, I have to disagree with him on this one. It is certainly true that the Podcast space has exploded in recent years and so it is certainly hard to stand out in that big, bustling crowd. But to me, that is precisely the reason why branded podcasts are a good idea.  Because brands know who they are and who their audience is. So they are able to craft a very specific podcast experience targeted at that audience. Which means they absolutely can break through...to their specific niche.   #podcast #branding #audio #brandexpereince #storytelling

Rafat Ali came to study new media at IU in the heat of the dot-com boom. By the time he graduated, the bubble had burst. Yet, Ali managed to enter and excel in digital media, founding paidContent, ContentNext and Skift. In this episode, he talks with Dean Shanahan about how he did it.

Given all the news of layoffs in the digital media space this week, I knew I couldn't sit on this interview with Rafat Ali any longer. Currently the founder and CEO of digital media company Skift—but also, if you weren’t aware, a true digital media pioneer going back to his founding of Paid Content—I knew he could talk about this stuff, and he has a pretty unique perspective on the state of digital media in 2019. TLDR, it’s not good. Dire might even be the word.  This episode has a full transcript. Sponsor: Capterra.com/ride

This week we hear from Rafat Ali, co-founder and CEO of boutique travel publisher Skift. We spoke about what connects the dots between paid content, travel, dining and wellness, his belief in trendlines not headlines, his long-term aspirations for Skift vs short-term VC plays and why he wants to be useless to his business. In the news round-up we put a bow on the discussion about Waitrose Magazine’s editor quitting over comments he made to a freelancer, discuss whether Channel 4’s move to Leeds will pop the London media bubble, and discuss whether Facebook is more powerful than the British parliament.

Skift CEO Rafat Ali is vocal about his beliefs about building sustainable media businesses -- and the advantages of focusing on more narrow niches than broad, general audiences. Skift is now six years old, with 60 people and revenue that’s set to cross $10 million this year, Ali said. As the company grows, Ali said he focuses more on the long term. He talks about the media trends he loves and especially the ones, he hates, going into the wellness space, why he’s making an acquisition and the recipe for success in media today.

This episode of the Skift podcast explores uncomfortable truths about travel, as well as the things that inspire us about the industry. The conversation was sparked by two pieces of writing from Skift Founder and CEO Rafat Ali, who is one of our guests. He's joined by Skift Co-Founder Jason Clampet, who is also general manager of Skift Table, and Skift News Editor Hannah Sampson.

Rafat Ali has done something remarkable in an era where it's really tough to make money telling people the truth. He built and sold PaidContent, a site that covered the digital media revolution with trenchant foresight. And now he's built Skift, an information company focused on the travel and dining industries.  I sat down with Rafat Ali at the Nasdaq Marketsite in Times Square to get an insider's look at how you revolutionize a crumbling industry. Rafat's a guy whose career I've sort of passively followed as a journalist for a long time. When I was writing for a newspaper in Silicon Valley 18 years ago, I saw him toughing it out on the opposite coast. As he's jumped into entrepreneurial ventures, I leaped from newspapers, to magazines, to broadcast, while crafting my own digital projects. Like Fortt Knox.  Anyway, part of the brilliance of Rafat Ali is his ability to draw lessons from one industry that are prophetic in another. So even if you're not into media or travel, there's something in here for you.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Felix Salmon of Fusion, Slate Moneybox columnist Jordan Weissmann, political risk consultant Anna Szymanski, and CEO of Skift, Rafat Ali discuss: Airbnb and overtourism Low-cost airlines The travel industry In Slate Plus: How businesses rely on tourism Check out other Panoply podcasts at panoply.fm. Email: slatemoney@slate.comTwitter:@felixsalmon, @Three_Guineas, @JHWeissmann Production by Daniel Schroeder and June Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Felix Salmon of Fusion, Slate Moneybox columnist Jordan Weissmann, political risk consultant Anna Szymanski, and CEO of Skift, Rafat Ali discuss: Airbnb and overtourism Low-cost airlines The travel industry In Slate Plus: How businesses rely on tourism Check out other Panoply podcasts at panoply.fm. Email: slatemoney@slate.comTwitter:@felixsalmon, @Three_Guineas, @JHWeissmann Production by Daniel Schroeder and June Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The co-founder and CEO of the travel media company Skift, Ali is a digital media veteran. We talk about his childhood in India and what made him want to get into media. He takes us on a tour through internet 1.0 with stops at Inside.com and PaidContent, the first company he founded. And we arrive at the here and now, where Ali is an advocate for niche media brands and the pivot to quality.

Travel is supposed to be about relaxation, having fun, being with loved ones, getting away from the grind. But for many of us, travel involves a tremendous amount of stress, from going through security, to the indignities of flying, to worries about what might go wrong in our destination. In this episode of “Get Outta Here,” hosted by AP Travel Editor Beth Harpaz, we hear from Skift CEO Rafat Ali about the anxiety we all feel when we travel. Skift is a travel industry media company, and the theme of its annual journal is “Travel in the Age of Permanxiety.” He’ll also describe his own experiences traveling as a Muslim.

This week's guest is Rafat Ali. Rafat is the CEO/founder of Skift, the largest business intelligence and marketing platform in travel, providing news, information, data, and services to all sectors of the world's largest industry. Previously, he was the founder of paidContent and ContentNext, now owned by UK's Guardian News and Media. Prior to that, he was managing editor of Silicon Alley Reporter. ===== Skift.com Rafat.org http://rafat.org/post/136289931946/how-we-got-off-the-addiction-of-venture-capital

Rafat Ali has been a long-time digital media warrior. He maintains a no-nonsense profile across social media platforms, questioning the incumbent, large media platforms on one hand, and taking on the rising dominance of newer media products such as Facebook on the other. Produced by Anand Murali Music Credit: www.accelerated-ideas.com/ Image Credit (Rafat Ali): https://www.flickr.com/photos/worldtravelandtourismcouncil/17166151301

On this episode of the Skift podcast, we explore the biggest trends that will define travel in 2017, with audio from our annual Megatrends event. Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali and co-founder and editor-in-chief Jason Clampet delve into topics including how low-cost airlines are changing the transatlantic game, the festivalization of meetings and events, the return of humanity to travel, and the evolving desires of Baby Boomer travelers.

Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how media entrepreneurship has evolved since he launched his first company, PaidContent, in 2002. Ali left PaidContent after an acquisition by the Guardian (that went nowhere) and launched Skift to write about the travel business for people who work in the travel business. Today, Skift is a profitable boutique company with 29 employees, and Ali explains why he's happy to keep it small and let it grow slowly. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

SummaryI can't be sure about this exactly, but I would hazard to say Rafat Ali is possibly patient zero when it comes to taking a blog and turning it into a real, 21st century media company. Before the Huffington Post, before TechCrunch, even, maybe, kind of, before Gawker, Rafat founded PaidContent in 2002. He later sold it to the Guardian Media Group in 2008. Today he is the CEO of Skift.com, a media vertical in the travel industry space. Rafat has such an amazing story: an immigrant's story, an accidental entrepreneur's story, and, basically, the first-hand story of how blogging morphed into "professional," modern digital media. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Frequent travelers Rafat Ali of Skift and Meg Riley of the Martin Agency lament the industry's record levels of passive-aggression -- and how technology and innovation are giving customers more leverage and new choices. Twitter.com/FullDRadio Facebook.com/FullDRadio

With our kickoff 2016 episode, Skift staffers Jason Clampet, Alexandra E. Petri, and Rafat Ali discuss highlights from the 15 big trends affecting travel in 2016. These trends are playing out across the global travel industry, from changing consumer habits, to the big marketing changes happening, to how consumer data are finally being used to understand the traveler.

Although slipping into a local routine in a strange and foreign city has never been easier, most tourists are confounded by their basic need to know that they have indeed seen and experienced a place as they imagined. To discuss what draws a supposedly independent-minded traveler into the vortex of commercialism and parody that Times Square, Las Ramblas and Trafalgar represent, podcast host and Skift reporter Samantha Shankman and Skift founder and CEO Rafat Ali sat down with Fred Dixon, CEO of NYC & Company, and Pegi Vail, an anthropologist at New York University.

Attention entrepreneurs dealing with the current economic downturn: This interview is for you. After working as a journalist for Jason Calacanis at Silicon Alley Reporter, Rafat Ali ended up broke in a market with a dearth of employment opportunities. To try to find a new job, Rafat created paidContent.org…

Download the MP3. Attention entrepreneurs dealing with the current economic downturn: This interview is for you. After working as a journalist for Jason Calacanis at Silicon Alley Reporter, Rafat Ali ended up broke in a market with a dearth of employment opportunities. To try to find a new job, Rafat created paidContent.org as an "interactive resume." Luckily, no one hired him. From these humble beginnings, Rafat bootstrapped his blog holding company, ContentNext Media, for four years before taking a small investment from famed media investor Alan Patricof in June 2006. From its inception paidContent has doubled revenues each year and was recently acquired by UK-based Guardian Media Group for a rumored $30 million. Listen in as Rafat outlines the past, present, and future of online media, while sharing his war stories from another uncertain economic time.