Podcasts about Agile

Alf Dobbert-Baums: The Two-Country Scrum Team and the Rapport That Never Showed Up Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "It did not quite go as planned. I was really humbled." - Alf Dobbert-Baums   Alf was new in the company. His boss walked over with a setup that already sounded like a warning: two development teams in two countries, two locations in Germany, a "difficult" Product Owner — and a quick "do you want to take it?" Alf said sure. Everything happened on video chat. Every meeting, every conversation, every attempt to read the room — through a window that closed the moment the call ended. The rapport never built. The PO stayed difficult. Alf eventually got pulled from the team. Looking back, he saw what the video chat had hidden: the crossed arms, the eyes drifting to email, the small in-between moments that turn coworkers into colleagues. The fix wasn't a tool — it was a flight. Visit the other location. Run a workshop with a real goal ("how do we want to work together?", "what's hard about our setup?"). Build a positive anchor before anything goes wrong, not after. And when you do go, don't lead with the failures — lead with what could be possible together.   In this episode, we refer to the practice of building team working agreements as a way to create rapport without putting people on the defensive.   Self-reflection Question: When was the last time you saw the people you work with face-to-face — and what conversations are you still postponing because they only happen well in person?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Agile 2026 is almost here! And John Tanner and I will be presenting on Monday, July 27th, at 3:15 PM. Our session is called When AI Starts Doing Your Job: Surviving the PM Identity Crisis. If you are someone who has been struggling with getting out of the gate with AI. If your hesitating because you don't know how to start, you don't know what to do with it, it's just too overwhelming, or you can see how it impacts the other roles, but not your own, you are the reason John and I put this session together beause that was me, 8 months ago, moaning about how I didn't want to be the prompt guy. If you'd like to learn a little more about the session and you are curious about John's PMO as Code work, check out this video and then come see us at Agile 2026! When AI Starts Doing Your Job: Surviving the PM Identity Crisis PMI Agile 2026 Monday, Jul 2715:15 - 17:00 EDT https://events.pmi.org/flow/pmi/pmiagile26/sessioncatalog/page/sessions/session/1778861942411001eyOh Contacting John LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tannerjs/ C4G Enterprises: https://c4genterprises.com Contacting Dave LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrsungo/ Linktree: https://linktr.ee/mrsungo

Mirco Gerling: The Hydra Product Owner and the PO Who Made Trust Possible Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Precision That Builds Team Trust Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "He always had an answer, or if he didn't have the answer, he tried to ask the clients, the users, the stakeholders." - Mirco Gerling   In pharmaceutical software, the wrong dose can kill someone. So when Mirco worked with a PO in that domain, precision wasn't a virtue — it was a survival requirement. The PO wrote meticulous user stories in classic "As a user, I want… so that…" format with very good acceptance criteria. The developers always knew what done meant. And when, mid-sprint, the team spotted a gap — "Is 80% tolerance of 100% or 80% of all?" — the PO was there, asking the right people, refining or splitting the story, never letting ambiguity ship. Even when half the team was out sick in winter, the remaining developers could deliver because the user stories were clear enough to stand on their own. Stories linked to automated tests. Each acceptance criterion traceable to the test that proved it. The result: a team that trusted their PO. As Mirco puts it, that trust came from one thing — the PO had already done the work needed to help the team understand what to do and how they'd know it was done.   Self-reflection Question: What's the level of precision in your team's user stories signaling to your developers about how much you trust them — and how much you've prepared for them? The Bad Product Owner: The Hydra PO with Seven Heads Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "If the developers had questions, the people said: 'it's not my ticket, it's not my story.'" - Mirco Gerling   Five Scrum teams. One Product Owner. Seven requirements engineers writing user stories alongside. Eight people doing the work of product ownership — and nobody owning any of it. Developers learned quickly that asking a question meant being bounced from one requirements engineer to another. "It's not my ticket." The eight-person PO group split into two sub-teams who, when they spoke about each other, used "you" and "they" instead of "we." Decisions made in week one collided with decisions made in week three. Mirco's intervention: treat the PO group like a Scrum team. Eight people is a team-sized group. Run retrospectives with them. Get them communicating as a unit instead of as parallel individuals. The one anchor that kept things from completely falling apart was the single PO at the top, who could still say "this feature we need at the end of the year, the other can wait." Without unified prioritization, the hydra has no direction — just seven heads pulling in seven ways.   Self-reflection Question: Where in your product organization are decision-makers proliferating without a shared mandate — and what's the cost in clarity for the teams downstream?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

DAY 3 of **40 Days to PMP Exam Success 2026** focuses on one of the most important responsibilities of a project professional: **leading the project team**.Everything rises and falls on leadership. In today's session, we examine what effective leadership looks like across predictive, Agile, and hybrid project environments—and how these concepts may appear on the 2026 PMP exam.Today's breakdown covers the seven key enablers of leading the project team:✅ Establish expectations at the team level✅ Empower the team✅ Solve problems collaboratively✅ Represent the voice of the team✅ Support varied experiences, skills, and perspectives✅ Determine the appropriate leadership style✅ Establish clear roles and responsibilitiesYou will also learn:• How team charters, social contracts, and ground rules establish the operating culture• How to use RACI to clarify ownership and decision-making authority• The difference between an issue, problem, impediment, obstacle, and blocker• How to apply the DIGIVE problem-solving framework• Why leadership is based on influence—not merely position or authority• How leadership differs across predictive, Agile, and hybrid environments• The role of the project manager as the organizational bridge in hybrid projectsWe also break down several major leadership and motivation models, including:

This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.http://gotopia.tech/bookclubElisabeth Hendrickson - Advisor, Coach, Speaker & Co-Author of "Signals & Levers"Joel Tosi - Co-Founder & CTO at Dojo & Co & Co-Author of "Signals & Levers"Charles Humble - Freelance Techie, Podcaster, Editor, Author & ConsultantCheck out more here:https://gotopia.tech/episodes/448RESOURCESElisabethhttps://ruby.social/@testobsessedhttps://github.com/testobsessedhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/testobsessedhttps://curiousduck.ioJoelhttps://mastodon.social/@joeltosihttps://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-tosi-531a3bCharleshttps://bsky.app/profile/charleshumble.bsky.socialhttps://linkedin.com/in/charleshumblehttps://mastodon.social/@charleshumblehttps://conissaunce.comLinkshttps://ruthmalan.comhttp://www.ask-force.org/web/Discourse/Rittel-Dilemmas-General-Theory-Planning-1973.pdfDESCRIPTIONElisabeth Hendrickson and Joel Tosi open by explaining why systems thinking is having a moment right now: organizations that went all-in on Agile and DevOps are finding those returns plateauing, and the rise of AI is forcing engineering teams to reexamine where their real bottlenecks are. The book, Signals & Levers, gives software engineers a practical vocabulary and toolkit for that examination. A core insight is that most organizational dysfunction isn't caused by bad people or bad intentions, but by systems that produce bad outcomes predictably and structurally. The named archetypes in the book — over 20 of them, covering patterns like escalating technical debt, the "fixes that fail" loop, and the boiling frog — give teams a shared language to recognize and reason about those patterns without having to discover them from scratch.The most practically actionable section of the conversation covers signals versus levers: understanding the difference between information (a signal) and an intervention point (a lever) is the foundation for making changes that actually work rather than changes that feel productive and achieve nothing. On AI, both authors are cautious in the right ways: Elisabeth uses it daily as a thinking partner but keeps herself firmly at the steering wheel. Joel's warning is starker — AI amplifies whatever is already true about your organization, including dysfunction, and if it lets you ship faster than you can learn, the consequences may be severe. The book closes with an exercise for the reader: if AI doubles your delivery speed, what happens when you can ship faster than you can adapt?RECOMMENDED BOOKSElisabeth Hendrickson & Joel Tosi • Signals & Levers • https://amzn.to/4g6Fb3CDiana Montalion • Learning Systems Thinking • https://amzn.to/3ZpycdJDon Norman • The Design of Everyday Things • https://amzn.to/4fV6QVlGene Kim • The Unicorn Project • https://amzn.to/3woXQDzGene Kim, Kevin Behr & George Spafford • The Phoenix Project • https://amzn.to/3X9cYxaPeter Degrace & Leslie Hulet Stahl • Wicked Problems, Righteous Solutions • https://amzn.to/3ScP0D9Frederick Brooks Jr. • The Mythical Man-Month • https://amzn.to/4gd10OVGerald Weinberg • An Introduction to General Systems Thinking • https://amzn.to/4dZCsaODonella H. Meadows • Thinking in Systems • https://amzn.to/3XtqYCVBlueskyInstagramLinkedInFacebookCHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUSJoin this channel to get early access to videos & other perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/joinLooking for a unique learning experience?Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.techSUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

————— COACHING —————Vous êtes leader tech ou product face à des défis majeurs ?

Mirco Gerling: The Silence Test — How to Know Your Team Doesn't Need You Anymore Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "Don't talk too much. And only talk if it's necessary." - Mirco Gerling   For Mirco, success as a Scrum Master starts with a simple rule he had to fight for: don't try to be someone else. Early in his career, when people kept saying "Mirco, you decide, you're the Scrum Master," he had to do the hard work of pushing back — "no, we decide together." That instinct shapes his whole definition of success. Be authentic. Wait before you speak. Ask before you instruct. And when a discussion stalls, sit with the silence — because in most cases, someone in the team has a better idea than you do. The cleanest test of whether a team is truly self-managing? Disappear. When Mirco took two months of parental leave, his team kept running every Scrum event without him. That's the signal. If you stop sending the sprint review invite, stop preparing the retrospective, stop nudging — and the team picks it up because they own it — your work is showing.   Self-reflection Question: What's one thing you currently do for your team that you suspect they would do themselves if you simply stopped doing it? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: 1-2-4-All from Liberating Structures Mirco's universal tool is Liberating Structures, and within that toolbox, 1-2-4-All is his go-to. The pitch: "involve everybody, especially in large groups. And there's nearly no preparation needed." His proof point — facilitating a retrospective for 60 people at the Agile by Nature bar camp in just 20 minutes. The format scales from a team of five to a room of sixty without changing its shape: one minute alone, two minutes in pairs, four minutes in small groups, then a share-back with the whole group. During a 30°C COVID summer in Hamburg, Mirco even ran retros walking outdoors with his team — station to station, down to the lake for ice cream, then back. "It was a very good and constructive retrospective." The lesson: the right structure makes you portable.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Mirco Gerling: Two Teams, One Sprint Cadence — The Hidden Cost of Synchronization Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "The teams need to understand the advantage of the synchronization — but will they?" - Mirco Gerling   Two of Mirco's teams just got merged into one — and the brand-new, fused team is now part of a 10+ team organization trying to move from loose-coupled chaos to a standard process. Different sprint lengths. Different estimation methods. Different ticketing tools. The plan: align everyone to 4-week sprints, hold a global planning week every three months, and synchronize start and end dates across all teams. Mirco voted for 2-week sprints. The majority went with 4. And then the side effects started. Sprint reviews stack up on the same days, making it impossible for Scrum Masters to facilitate them all. Teams synchronize on paper, but interact organically across the four weeks anyway, so the cadence advantage doesn't materialize. And the merged team itself? Pushed back through Tuckman's stages by the merge — the Tuckman model reminded Mirco that "adjourning" is real, and a high-performing team starts over when its membership changes. Mirco's experiment: let faster-moving teams run two 2-week sprints inside the 4-week window, keeping organizational sync while restoring their own learning rhythm.   Self-reflection Question: Where in your organization is process standardization being mistaken for actual alignment — and what would it cost you to separate the two?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Are you committing massive resources before testing reality? In this episode, Squirrel is joined by guest, technical program manager, Krunal Patel, who explains how he developed an exciting new car feature in less than a third of the time of a typical waterfall cycle, using cheap prototyping and rapid feedback loops. Join us to learn how you can use “soft-tooling” for your software. Links: Krunal Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/krunalpatel1860/ -------------------------------------------------- You'll find free videos and practice material, plus our book Agile Conversations, at agileconversations.com And we'd love to hear any thoughts, ideas, or feedback you have about the show: email us at info@agileconversations.com -------------------------------------------------- About Your Hosts Douglas Squirrel and Jeffrey Fredrick joined forces at TIM Group in 2013, where they studied and practised the art of management through difficult conversations. Over a decade later, they remain united in their passion for growing profitable organisations through better communication. Squirrel is an advisor, author, keynote speaker, coach, and consultant, and he's helped over 300 companies of all sizes make huge, profitable improvements in their culture, skills, and processes. You can find out more about his work here: douglassquirrel.com/index.html Jeffrey is Vice President of Engineering at ION Analytics, Organiser at CITCON, the Continuous Integration and Testing Conference, and is an accomplished author and speaker. You can connect with him here: www.linkedin.com/in/jfredrick/

Mirco Gerling: The Supermarket Team That Self-Destructed Trying to Help Everyone Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "They tried to help, and finally, it... it self-destructed the team." - Mirco Gerling   The team was the supermarket of the organization. Cloud systems, versioning, developer machines, hardware — if another team needed infrastructure, this team built it. And when other teams asked, the answer was always the same: "We will try, we will try." Mirco watched what happened next play out in slow motion. The team escalated their overload to management. Management responded the way management often responds — sent in temporary help. The reinforcements solved problems quickly and left. But every system they built became permanent maintenance work for the original team. The pile grew. The team shrank. People left for other teams, or left the organization entirely. The escalation that was supposed to save them became the signal that broke them. As Mirco puts it: running to the higher level "sends a signal that self-organization or self-management does not work." Sometimes the help is the harm.   In this segment, we refer to the dynamic of team self-organization and how it can break down under pressure.   Self-reflection Question: When your team is overwhelmed, what does the act of escalating tell management about your ability to self-manage — and is that the signal you want to send? Featured Book of the Week: The Kanban Maturity Model In this episode, Mirco also recommends two books that shaped his thinking on process and estimation. The first is #NoEstimates by Vasco Duarte, which inspired Mirco to drop story-point estimation in some teams and simply count completed tickets per sprint. The second is the Kanban Maturity Model — a book Mirco uses to run workshops where teams discover their current level of process maturity. "The highest level says that you have a standardized process, and the result is always the same for the same type of work," he explains. Most teams start at level zero, but that's the point: knowing where you stand is the precondition for knowing where to go next.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

DODNet leaders say 90-day OTA cycles and flexible engineering models are helping DISA deliver capabilities at the speed of cyber threats. Guest: Kelli Garczynski, acting DODNet Deputy Program Manager, and Mike Butler, Chief Engineer, DODNet, DISA Description: As cyber threats evolve and technology advances at an unprecedented pace, the Defense Information Systems Agency is rethinking how it acquires and delivers capabilities. Acting DODNet Deputy Program Manager Kelli Garczynski and DODNet Chief Engineer Mike Butler joined CyberCast to discuss how DISA is adopting agile acquisition strategies and accelerating procurement timelines to strengthen network defenses and deliver mission capabilities faster. Butler said DISA must pair technical agility with contract agility to keep pace with rapidly changing threats across War Department networks. Traditional acquisition timelines, he noted, can leave critical engineering efforts lagging behind emerging mission requirements. To address that challenge, Garczynski said DISA is increasingly using Other Transaction Authorities (OTAs) to rapidly identify, evaluate and deploy the best technologies for warfighters. By leveraging OTAs, DISA aims to move from industry engagement to contract award in as little as 90 days, dramatically reducing the time required to field new capabilities. Garczynski added that modern architectures such as DODNet and DISA's zero-trust initiative, Thunderdome, cannot be developed through rigid, static requirements. Butler said continuous data collection and operational feedback allow DISA to adjust requirements in real time, enabling more responsive development and a stronger defense against active adversaries.

AI tools promise productivity and efficiency, but many lawyers experience AI brain fry, a form of mental fatigue caused by working with AI in ways that outpace human perception of time. Unlike humans, AI doesn't experience the passage of time, which can lead to overcommitment, distraction, and exhaustion if workflows are not carefully managed.In this episode, I explain why this mismatch between human time and AI behavior matters for legal professionals. Drawing on examples from social media experiments and real-world experience, I highlight how AI engagement loops, infinite scope suggestions, and tool design can unintentionally expand work instead of simplifying it. I also share practical strategies rooted in Agile principles to prevent overextension.Get full show notes, transcript, and more information here: agileattorney.comTake your law practice from overwhelmed to optimized with GreenLine LegalFollow along on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/johnegrantChat with John here.

Mirco Gerling: When the Scrum Guide Isn't the Rulebook — A Scrum Master's First Conflict with Management Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "I had to learn that the organization didn't know the Scrum Guide very exactly." - Mirco Gerling   In his first Scrum Master role — running hybrid as both developer and Scrum Master — Mirco walked in believing the Scrum Guide was the rulebook everyone played by. The team thought so too: they were self-managing now, so they would decide. Management hadn't read the same memo. When Mirco called time on a meeting, a manager said "It's my decision when the meeting is over." When Mirco asked the team if they were happy in a retrospective, the manager saw the flip chart afterward — and from that day on, Mirco started destroying anything from retrospectives that could attract attention. The conflict wasn't about Scrum. It was about who gets to decide what. Without an explicit conversation about the limits of self-management, the team and management each assumed authority the other thought was theirs. Mirco eventually found Management 3.0's Delegation Poker — a tool that makes those invisible boundaries visible and gives teams and managers a structured way to negotiate them. The lesson: raise the topic with management before the conflict, not after.   In this episode, we refer to the Delegation Poker practice from Management 3.0.   Self-reflection Question: Where in your team's work are the limits of self-management still unspoken — and what would change if you put them on the table this week?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Aliu Adewale: The Over-Communicator vs. The Over-Ambitious—Two Patterns Every Scrum Master Should Recognize Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Over-Communicator Who Negotiated Every Scope Change Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "This is a guy who over-communicates everything." - Aliu Adewale   The best Product Owner Aliu ever worked with did something simple that almost no PO does. Before each refinement, he'd pull up the Jira board, record himself walking through every user story, explaining acceptance criteria, talking through the end goal one ticket at a time—and post the video to the team a day or two ahead. This was before Loom existed. The result: refinement felt less like discovery and more like "walking it back"—the team arrived already prepared, with real questions, ready to engage. He still attended every refinement and never missed a comment in Jira. But the second skill Aliu names matters even more: negotiation. This PO never let scope creep into a sprint mid-stride without consulting the team first. "If we add these two requests from leadership, what's the impact? Do we need to take something out?" And if the team said no, he didn't force it. He went back to leadership and named the consequence: "If we add this, here's what happens. Are you okay with that?" Over-communication and negotiation—two skills that protect the team and the product at the same time.   Self-reflection Question: When was the last time your PO asked the team's permission before adding work mid-sprint? The Bad Product Owner: The Over-Ambitious PO Who Never Said No Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "Every yes to something unimportant is a no to what matters." - Aliu Adewale   The Product Owner Aliu names as the anti-pattern is the over-ambitious PO—the one who never says no. Never to stakeholders, never to the business, never to a new feature request. He never considered the size of the team or the capacity of the team. He was blind to it. Underneath the behavior, Aliu sees a pattern: POs who want to keep their job by saying yes, stakeholders who keep asking because they think they have to, and a team on probation that doesn't feel safe pushing back. The damage compounds—more features delivered, less value per feature, and eventually the team itself starts to break. Aliu's framing is sharp: "More features don't equal more value. Sometimes more is just less." The job of the Scrum Master here is to coach the PO on when to say no, when to say yes, and how to recognize that on the phone in front of you right now, 90% of the features in that app you're staring at—you never use them. Built. Shipped. Ignored.   In this segment, we refer to Product Owner anti-patterns and the courage required to challenge stakeholder demands.   Self-reflection Question: Is your PO measuring success by features shipped, or by features used?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Aliu Adewale: Success Is Living the Five Scrum Values—And Asking the Team If You Are Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "Trust is the foundation of empowerment. When you trust your team, they will deliver beyond your expectation." - Aliu Adewale   For Aliu, success as a Scrum Master is concrete: the team is living the five Scrum values—commitment, focus, openness, respect, and courage—and the organization is getting real value from their work. Commitment shows up in how the team holds itself to a Sprint goal. Focus shows up in how they protect that goal from noise. Openness reduces conflict because nothing festers in the dark. Respect, Aliu reframes powerfully: respect for someone's background comes before respect for their skill set—because in a team where people come from different countries, religions, and skill sets, that's the foundation everything else sits on. And courage shows up when a team can tell a Product Owner or a stakeholder that no, this can't be done in this Sprint, and we need to talk about it. But the values alone aren't success—the test is whether the team is delivering value frequently to the organization. The way Aliu keeps himself honest is uncomfortable but simple: he sends a survey to his team and asks them to tell him how he's doing on communication, on risk mitigation, on empowering them to reach stakeholders directly. He starts the assessment cycle the moment he joins—asking the organization what success looks like in this role in the next three months—and he refuses to "get carried away" and stop asking.   Self-reflection Question: Have you ever sent your team a survey asking them to rate you—and acted on what they said? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Start, Stop, Continue Aliu's go-to retrospective is the classic Start, Stop, Continue. Three questions—What should we start doing? What should we stop doing? What should we continue doing?—and the team has the structure they need to pinpoint their own shortcomings and decide what to do about them. The reason it works so well, Aliu argues, is the psychological safety the simplicity creates. There's no jargon, no clever framework, no facilitator gimmick to hide behind. Experienced and self-organizing teams especially thrive with it because they can name what's not working without you having to call it out for them. As a Scrum Master, when your team starts pointing at their own gaps without your prompt, that's the moment you should applaud yourself—you coached them into the space where they can do it.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

What happens to organizations when the cost of outputs drops to nearly zero? That is the central question Dave West and Dr. Mik Kersten are back to explore in this episode of the Scrum.org Community Podcast. Mik, the author of the upcoming book Output to Outcome, joins Dave to dig into why so many companies are failing to see meaningful value from their AI investments and why the organization itself has become the bottleneck.They cover the AI productivity paradox, why complexity is growing faster than outcomes in most large organizations, and what leaders need to do differently. Mik introduces the "outcome loop" as a mental model for leadership, explains why modularity and decentralization are the only structures that scale (in nature or in business), and shares why many organizations are quietly reverting to command-and-control patterns at exactly the wrong moment.If you work in or lead a Scrum Team, manage a product organization, or are thinking about how AI is reshaping the way we structure and run teams, this conversation will give you a lot to chew on.Output to Outcome by Dr. Mik Kersten is available for pre-order now, with release on July 14.

Aliu Adewale: When Everything Is a "Must-Have," Nothing Is—Prioritization for Real-World Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "Every yes to something unimportant is a no to what matters." - Aliu Adewale   Aliu's current challenge isn't from his day job—it's from a volunteer project for his local Parent-Teacher Association. The group wants to build a centralized app for school announcements, PTA updates, volunteer coordination, event reminders. The first meeting produced 250 ideas, all of them framed as must-haves, all of them needed before school resumes. The window: three months. Vasco names two traps that most Scrum Masters fall into. First, MoSCoW and similar frameworks aren't prioritization—they're categorization. The moment everything ends up in the "must" bucket, you're still stuck. Second, prioritizing a feature list assumes features are independent. They almost never are: a login blocks a dozen things downstream; front-end depends on back-end; dependencies decide the order more than desirability does. Aliu's experiment with the PTA group is a focusing constraint: stop asking "what do we need this year?" and start asking "what do we need in the first three months when school resumes?" The 50-item must-have list collapsed to five or six features. Vasco pushes it further with his own favorite question: "What's preventing us from releasing tomorrow?" That's the question that exposes what really matters—and it almost never returns a list of features.   Self-reflection Question: If your team had to release tomorrow, which of your "must-haves" would you actually need?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

If Your ScrumMaster Only Runs Meetings... You're Wasting Your Best LeaderAsk ten people what a ScrumMaster does, and you're likely to hear ten different answers."They run the Daily Stand-up.""They schedule Sprint Planning.""They update Jira.""They remove impediments.""They're the Agile coach.""They're the team's project manager."Some of those answers are partially correct.Most of them are incomplete.And that's becoming one of the biggest challenges facing Agile organizations today.Somewhere along the way, many companies unintentionally shrank one of the most influential leadership roles on an Agile team into something much smaller.A meeting facilitator.A calendar manager.A process referee.Someone who reminds everyone when the Sprint Review starts.That's not what the ScrumMaster role was designed to be.In fact, if that's all your ScrumMaster is doing...You're probably missing the greatest opportunity that role has to offer.Let's imagine two ScrumMasters.The first arrives every morning with a checklist.Start the Daily Scrum.Update the board.Send reminders.Schedule Retrospectives.Close completed stories.Generate reports.Stay organized.Nothing wrong with those activities.They're important.But now let's look at a second ScrumMaster.This person notices that two team members have stopped collaborating.They coach a Product Owner struggling to prioritize competing stakeholder requests.They help leadership understand why multitasking is slowing delivery.They facilitate a difficult conversation before it becomes a lasting conflict.They identify organizational policies that create unnecessary delays.They mentor new leaders.They build trust across departments.They help people solve problems they didn't even realize existed.Which ScrumMaster creates greater long-term value?The answer seems obvious.Yet many organizations still spend far more time measuring the first set of activities than the second.Why?Because administration is visible.Leadership often isn't.You can see a meeting on a calendar.You can't always see trust being built.You can count completed ceremonies.It's much harder to measure improved communication.You can track whether a Retrospective happened.It's much more difficult to quantify whether people actually feel safe speaking honestly during it.That's the challenge.The most valuable work ScrumMasters perform often happens between the ceremonies.Not during them.- [website] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [instagram] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [facebook] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [Linkedin] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/

Aliu Adewale: The Counterintuitive Fix—How Collapsing the Jira Board Sparked Collaboration Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "Collaboration is the foundation of a successful Scrum team." - Aliu Adewale   Aliu walked into a team where the daily standup was theater. Developers delivered their tickets and forgot about them. QA picked up "their" column. Front-end, back-end, senior architect, junior developer—everyone was a champion of their own silo. Nobody engaged during refinement. Nobody called anything out. The board had close to ten columns, one per specialty, and it was working exactly as designed: as a handoff system. Aliu's diagnosis is sharp—the foundation of the team's problem wasn't the people; it was the tool. The Jira board was visualizing silos and the team was living up to it. The fix was counterintuitive: he collapsed the board from nine columns to three—To Do, In Progress, Done. Once "In Progress" was the only place where work lived, nobody could hide. A QA needing to know when a ticket would be ready had to talk to the developer. A stakeholder asking for status meant everyone on the ticket had to communicate. The team had no choice but to collaborate. As Vasco frames it in the episode: by creating the smaller problem of "hiding status," Aliu solved the bigger problem of "no collaboration." Sometimes you have to make things a little worse so they can get much better.   In this segment, we refer to the Agile value individuals and interactions over processes and tools, and to the recognition that the tools we choose shape the behaviors we get.   Self-reflection Question: Is your Jira board designed to enable collaboration, or to enable handoffs? Featured Book of the Week: Surrounded by Idiots by Thomas Erikson For Aliu, the book that most inspired him as a Scrum Master is Surrounded by Idiots by Thomas Erikson—a book he discovered through a recommendation on this very podcast. The provocative title pulled him in; the content gave him something he could use every day. As a Scrum Master, you work with people from different backgrounds, different communication styles, different ways of seeing the world. The book maps four personality patterns and, as Aliu puts it, "it might not be a hundred over a hundred, but at least ninety over a hundred about personality and human relation." For someone already working on his emotional intelligence, it became a tool for understanding why a message that landed clearly with one team member completely missed another—and what to do about it.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

AI is transforming the legal profession, but adopting new technology isn't just about tools. It requires a mindset shift. Without structured approaches, lawyers can struggle to keep up with rapid technological change, meet evolving client expectations, and maintain quality and efficiency in their work. Understanding how to integrate AI into legal workflows effectively is key to sustainable transformation.In this episode, I speak with Marion Ehmann, partner at Venturis Consulting Group and a leading expert in legal process improvement. We explore how Agile methods provide the structure law firms need to experiment, adapt, and iterate when integrating AI and other tools into their practices. Marion shares examples from legal teams using Kanban boards and Scrum-inspired feedback loops to make work visible, identify bottlenecks, and create learning loops that improve productivity, morale, and client satisfaction.Get full show notes, transcript, and more information here: agileattorney.comTake your law practice from overwhelmed to optimized with GreenLine LegalFollow along on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/johnegrant

In this episode of The Better Leadership Team Show, I sit down with Jaime Taets, CEO and Founder of Keystone Group International, to discuss what it really takes to build an agile organization in today's rapidly changing business environment.We explore why many leadership teams struggle with execution, how decision rights and decision speed impact organizational performance, and why executive operating models may be the missing ingredient behind successful strategy implementation.Jaime shares insights on strategic agility, AI's growing impact on business, risk tolerance, talent development, leadership activation, and how organizations can better engage the next generation of employees. We also discuss why traditional leadership development programs often fail and what companies can do to create lasting behavior change.Finally, Jaime shares powerful lessons learned from climbing Mount Kilimanjaro and how adversity can shape stronger leaders.If you're looking to improve decision-making, increase organizational agility, develop stronger leaders, and prepare your company for the future, this episode is packed with practical insights you can apply immediately.Website: https://keystonegroupintl.com Thanks for listening! Connect with us at mike-goldman.com/blog and on Instagram@mikegoldmancoach and on YouTube @Mikegoldmancoach

Aliu Adewale: The New Scrum Master Trap—Being In Everyone's Business to Look Busy Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "Sometimes the best architecture and design comes from a self-organizing team." - Aliu Adewale   When Aliu first became a Scrum Master, he wanted to be everywhere. New to the role, new to the organization, with a new team relying on him to deliver, he scheduled extra check-ins, sat in on everything, and made sure his manager could see him working. The result wasn't visibility—it was suffocation. The team felt he was in their business, and the deliveries he was trying to protect got worse, not better. Aliu's wake-up call came from his coach, who told him a sentence he still carries: "Stepping back gives your team the space to take ownership and unlock their true potential." The hardest thing a new Scrum Master can do is let things roll on their own for a Sprint or two and adjust through the retrospective. But once Aliu did it, the team started self-organizing, owning their day-to-day, and delivering beyond his expectations. The lesson he names is Agile principle number 5: build projects around motivated individuals, give them the support they need, and trust them to get the job done. The deeper insight from Vasco in this episode: when we want to be in our team's business, it's usually because we don't trust ourselves to know enough—so we try to know everything.   In this episode, we refer to Turn the Ship Around! by David Marquet, which Vasco recommends for any Scrum Master learning to step back, and to the Agile Manifesto.   Self-reflection Question: What are you doing this week to "be visible" that the team would actually be better off without?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

WAgile Isn't a Compromise... It's the Future of Modern Project Delivery"If Agile works so well... why are so many organizations mixing it with traditional project management?"For years, the conversation has been framed as a battle.Agile versus Waterfall.Scrum versus Project Management.Innovation versus governance.Speed versus predictability.Choose a side.Defend your methodology.Convince everyone else they're wrong.But something interesting has happened over the past several years.Organizations have largely stopped arguing.Instead...they've started adapting.Across healthcare, banking, government, defense, manufacturing, insurance, education, and even technology companies, leaders are discovering a simple truth.Very few projects fit neatly into a single delivery model.Some work demands rapid experimentation.Other work requires extensive documentation.Some initiatives benefit from short iterative cycles.Others must satisfy regulatory reviews, contractual milestones, compliance audits, procurement gates, or executive approvals before moving forward.The reality is that modern organizations aren't choosing between Agile and traditional project management.They're using both.- [website] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [instagram] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [facebook] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [Linkedin] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/

Ripe for Disruption In an environment begging for disruption, Agile lost its reputation. It wasn’t because the 12 Principles were ineffective. It’s because we let it fall prey to comfortable, common thinking. Slow it down, make it safe. Don’t shake the floor; just go faster. When we want calm and predictable, we choose patterns. Copy something that works and repeat it. But patterns get stuck, and stuck patterns are hard to break. The disruptor doesn’t wait for permission. They act. They see a future that promises better, and they march toward it. They are fearless and determined authentic. That’s what Curry Barker is. In this episode, I’ll share why I think disruption is the only path to innovation and change and “better”. Disruption means taking a risk; doing things that others won’t. On the surface it seems like recklessness. But if we’re honest, nothing great was ever created from status quo. We need disruption right now. Not just in Agile, but in business, politics and culture. What Curry Barker teaches us is that you should just take your camera and GO. If you can attract a little attention or brew some success, the right people will find you. And maybe you can make lasting change. It’s certainly a more compelling and gratifying life. And right now, companies are looking for that disruption. They want to be shown. The market will pay a premium for those who go first, take risks, and fight long enough to gain footing. It’s not an easy path, and that’s exactly the point. **LET ME HELP YOU CREATE YOUR OWN OPPORTUNITIES** Reclaim control of your income and opportunities by picking a market that is hungry for your solution – and defining a product that they will pay for – in just 90 minutes! Don't be late to this trend! Sign up today! **FORGE GENESIS IS HERE** All the skills you need to stop relying on job postings and start enjoying the freedom of an Agile career on YOUR terms. First cohort starts in Q1 2026 https://learning.fusechamber.com/forge-genesis **THE ALL NEW FORGE LIGHTNING** 12 Weeks to elite leadership! https://learning.fusechamber.com/forge-lightning **JOIN MY BETA COMMUNITY FOR AGILE ENTREPRENEURS AND INTRAPRENEURS** The latest wave in professional Agile careers. Get the support you need to Forge Your Freedom! Join for FREE here: https://learning.fusechamber.com/offers/Sa3udEgz **GET THE BUSINESS OUTCOMES PARTNER PLAYBOOK** Learn how to deliver undeniable ROI that saves your job and accelerates your future https://learning.fusechamber.com/outcomes-partner-playbook **CHECK OUT ALL MY PRODUCTS AND SERVICES HERE:** https://learning.fusechamber.com **ELEVATE YOUR PROFESSIONAL STORYTELLING – Now Live!** The most coveted communications skill – now at your fingertips! https://learning.fusechamber.com/storytelling **JOIN THE FORGE*** New cohorts for Fall 2025!  Email for more information: contact@badassagile.com We’re also on YouTube! Follow the podcast, enjoy some panel/guest commentary, and get some quick tips and guidance from me: https://www.youtube.com/c/BadassAgilea ****** Follow The LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/badass-agile ****** Our mission is to create an elite tribe of leaders who focus on who they need to become in order to lead and inspire, and to be the best agile podcast and resource for effective mindset and leadership game. Contact us (contact@badassagile.com) for elite-level performance and agile coaching, speaking engagements, team-level and executive mindset/agile training, and licensing options for modern, high-impact, bite-sized learning and educational content.

Unlocking billions in cloud marketplace revenue. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ This powerful panel discussion featuring leaders from Google, Tackle, and dbt Labs dives deep into the explosive growth of cloud marketplaces and the radical shift toward AI-driven go-to-market strategies. With hyperscaler backlogs nearing half a trillion dollars, the conversation unpacks how top-tier organizations are transforming their compensation models, aligning executive buy-in, and navigating the complexities of co-selling to capture committed customer budgets. From the rise of AI agents acting as metered SaaS to the essential operational investments required to scale marketplace revenue from 10% to over 50%, this session provides an actionable roadmap for software companies ready to dominate the 2026 partner ecosystem. https://youtu.be/LSj49f5FEII Key Takeaways Hyperscaler backlog commitments represent a massive, nearly half-trillion-dollar addressable market that completely changes the budgeting conversation. Successful marketplace selling requires complete executive alignment, right down to the CFO, and strategic adjustments like spiffing sales teams for marketplace transactions. The AI category is experiencing staggering 18x year-over-year growth, forcing companies to pivot toward an “agent-first” go-to-market model. Shifting from traditional channels to cloud go-to-market demands a multi-year, intentional investment in operations, people, and technology. System integrators are evolving into software companies as they build orchestration agents to manage fragmented, end-to-end workflows. Leveraging cloud commitments bypasses standard 12-15 month budget cycles, allowing for significantly faster deal closures and larger initial lands. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: Google Cloud Marketplace, hyperscaler backlog, cloud commitments, co-selling strategies, AI agents, metered SaaS, product-led growth, rev ops, B2B sales transformation, ecosystem shift, channel strategy, system integrators, Deal registration, private offer APIs, digital transformation, software procurement. Transcript: Insight to Revenue- The State of Cloud GTM [00:00:00] Dai Vu: These are all things everyone has to do to get to that first five to 10 deals, and then 10, 20, 30% of your business through Marketplace. [00:00:09] Vince Menzione: You can feel it happening. The ecosystem is shifting beneath us, the way Hyperscalers are partnering, how AI is remaking the channel and what it means to win in 2026. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: Welcome to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. I’m Vince Menzi, own your host, and each week I sit down with leaders at the intersection of technology. Partnerships and outcomes. The voices shaping how ecosystems actually work. We talk about what’s real, what’s changing, and what it takes to lead in this era where the partner channel isn’t just part of the strategy. [00:00:43] Vince Menzione: It is the strategy because being in the room changes [00:00:46] John Janke: everything. Let’s start. [00:00:52] Vince Menzione: And we have an incredible session. The way that we wanted today to, to, to start the day up was like, let’s talk about what’s happening right now and let’s get three leaders in this space to come up and talk about the world and how it’s a rapidly evolving. So I want to invite to the stage dvu from Google is a great friend of Ultimate Partner. [00:01:14] Vince Menzione: Are you guys ready? Are you guys micd up already? Okay, good. Good. John Yanke, the CEO and Founder of Tackle, and Sean Todo, who is an incredible leader with DBT, but also an old friend of mine. We worked together on Microsoft Days. Good to see you gentlemen. Thanks Sean. Great to have you with us. [00:01:37] John Janke: They stuck me on the side ’cause they said I’d block the screen if I sat in the middle. [00:01:41] Shawn Toldo: You still block it a little bit. [00:01:42] John Janke: And that picture’s from like 1985. I, I, we do have to get that. I had way darker hair. It was, uh, 10 year, 10 years at a startup. Makes you turn white. [00:01:52] Shawn Toldo: Mine’s the exact same right now. So it’s all good. [00:01:55] Shawn Toldo: Mine’s AI generated. Yeah. [00:01:57] Vince Menzione: Well, you know, guys, I just took it all off at that point, you know, it’s like good. Yeah, but you lose enough of it. You pull it out over the years. Yeah. So, uh, some really exciting times. Uh, you, we gotta spend some time at you at our breakfast. That’s right. A couple weeks ago. [00:02:13] Dai Vu: A lot of folks here, too. [00:02:14] Vince Menzione: A lot of folks that are here were at that breakfast, and I thought we’d spend a few moments with you talking about all the exciting things that have been happening at, at Google. I mean the, yeah, the businesses just to, first of all, the numbers were house. Outstanding. Congratulations. [00:02:28] Dai Vu: That’s right. [00:02:28] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:02:28] Vince Menzione: Really, some really great numbers. Commitments are off the charts. [00:02:32] Dai Vu: Yes. [00:02:32] Vince Menzione: Crazy off the charts. [00:02:33] Dai Vu: Yes. [00:02:34] Vince Menzione: Yes. Uh, and then there’s a lot happening in this little world called ai, which makes a ton of sense. Yep. I was critical about Google in the beginning because you had all the assets, but Microsoft leaned in first. [00:02:45] Vince Menzione: Uh, but now it’s like things have evolved, uh, quite a bit since those first days. Absolutely. In, in November of 2022. So, uh, take us through a little bit. Let’s, let’s go through [00:02:56] Dai Vu: it. Yeah. I could talk for quite a bit of time because obviously we came out next, yeah. At the end of April, and then we had our earnings announced, but shortly thereafter. [00:03:03] Dai Vu: But, but real quick on next, uh, for folks who attended, uh, you know, the way they framed, uh, the discussion was they showed this AI integrated stack, and that’s how they frame the keynote because we position ourselves as being the only vendor that provides this. Fully integrated stack from custom silicon all the way to the apps and agents. [00:03:23] Dai Vu: And a lot of the announcements were, were focused in those areas. Um, uh, I won’t go through the, the long list, but I think the big ones coming out of next were, uh, certainly the eighth generation TPU we announced, so we actually split this into two specialized chips for training and inference. Uh, so that’s, uh, that was a big piece. [00:03:41] Dai Vu: Uh, but the big one that we announced was this, uh, Gemini Enterprise. Uh, agent platform. So think of it as the comprehensive platform for companies to basically build scale, govern and optimize their agents. And of course, once they have that, they can bring that into, uh, what we call a Gen Gemini enterprise app, which is really the front door for AI for. [00:04:03] Dai Vu: All customers and all employees to manage a mix of agents, um, as part of their daily workflow. And, uh, and a big part of it is, you know, certainly they’ll have some custom agents, but we think a lot of the agents will come from the ecosystem. And obviously there was a big announcement around what we’re doing there. [00:04:21] Dai Vu: Um, and in fact, one of the things that’s interesting is this shows the evolution of, of marketplace in our, in our partnership, which is we’ve taken a lot of the marketplace experience. And brought it into Gemini exp uh, Gemini Enterprise app, right? So search, discovery, uh, the ability to invoke agents, uh, in context. [00:04:39] Dai Vu: I think that’s gonna be very powerful as we think about the evolution, uh, of, of go to market. And then the last thing maybe I’ll highlight is this, um, is. 750 million, uh, investment fund that we’re gonna drive with the broad partnership. So this cuts across all partner types, global system integrators, uh, uh, you know, AI, pure plays, uh, ISVs, uh, the big management consultants as well, uh, because we recognize that partners are gonna be critical to drive business transformation with our end customers. [00:05:08] Dai Vu: So we’re investing around things like. Technical enablement, access to our product teams, access to our FDE for deployment engineers, and then a lot of incentives to drive usage and deployment. So, um, so a lot of, a lot of activity and obviously the ecosystem’s gonna be very critical for us to drive that impact’s. [00:05:25] Dai Vu: Fine. And the last thing, I know we’ve going on and on fine, but the last thing I’ll just mention is just on the earnings announcement, uh, Vince touched on the backlog, so people have been tracking Yeah. Two quarters ago. We were 155 billion on the backlog, and then a quarter later we were 240 billion. And then in the last quarter, just recently, 462 billion. [00:05:46] Dai Vu: So obviously that’s a, a massive signal of customer intent, but more importantly, it’s a, it’s, it’s a addressable market for this ecosystem to go after as well. [00:05:54] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Almost a half a trillion dollars. Yes. In commitment. So a lot, a lot of reason why we should be on the marketplace. [00:06:01] Dai Vu: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:06:02] Vince Menzione: Um, each of these gentlemen have some things to talk about as well, about their companies and the exciting things that have been happening. [00:06:08] Vince Menzione: I’m gonna start, John, I’m gonna start with you because Tackle has, has transformed quite a bit since the last time you were on stage with us. I thought maybe introduce the company. Take us through the transformation and then we’re gonna do the same thing with Sean with his organization. [00:06:21] John Janke: Yeah. Thanks. Uh, thanks Vince. [00:06:23] John Janke: Great to see everybody. Uh, John Yanke, GM of Tackle at App Direct. So the big news there is Tackle was acquired in Q4 by a company called App Direct, and I think the why behind this app, direct Powers, marketplaces, they run 400 marketplaces around the world for telcos, for ISVs, for system integrators, channel partners. [00:06:42] John Janke: And we were talk like, when you build a marketplace and diagnose this, stocking the shelves is actually really hard. Uh, and we were talking to them about how could we connect the dots between the hyperscaler marketplaces, the iscs we support, and these additional routes to market. Uh, and that became more strategic and we ended up joining forces in December. [00:07:00] John Janke: And since then, the other part that’s really hard when you build a marketplace is how do you generate demand? Uh, so four weeks ago we acquired a company called Partner Stack. And Partner Stack does affiliate content. They have an affiliate content platform that allows you to connect with 150,000 content providers to be able to start to tell your story to drive leads to. [00:07:23] John Janke: Marketplace. So we think there is a tremendous opportunity to continue. We’re in the earliest days. I think the, you know, Jay, I was with Jay at Channel Partners a few weeks ago and he is like, we under called it, he didn’t say this on stage yesterday, but he is like, uh, the 82% growth. He’s like, we totally under called it. [00:07:40] John Janke: Uh, and I think just listening to dies commit level increase mm-hmm. Reinforces the fact that we’ve under called it. But I also think we’re at this tipping point in the market where all of the new capabilities coming out, we have to all rethink our better together stories. So I think the challenge to all partner leaders, it’s like, how do we. [00:07:58] John Janke: Figure that out. So it’s, it’s a, it’s a fun time. As we transform the way we worked. We wrote the first helping people kind of list, launch and sell through the marketplaces. And now to be able to take that to the next level to hopefully unlock the next a hundred billion of marketplace throughput. [00:08:13] Vince Menzione: And are we at a hundred billion? [00:08:15] Vince Menzione: ’cause that was the number, right? [00:08:16] John Janke: I mean that’s, that’s, that’s the number that’s talked about. I mean, we’re seeing the data signals we see, I mean, we will process 20 billion plus this year. Uh, and that number’s growing faster than Jay’s stated number. So I think we’re excited to see where this year lands. [00:08:30] Vince Menzione: We’ve come a long way from three years ago and we all got on stage and talked about marketplaces together. Right. It’s been, it’s been amazing. And then Sean, let’s talk about DBT. You’ve had some excitement. I know some things maybe we can’t even talk about yet on stage. [00:08:43] Shawn Toldo: Uh, yeah, go ahead. [00:08:44] Vince Menzione: No, I was saying I, I could, I’ll pre-announce things, but No, I’m just, uh, tell, tell us about DBT for those who don’t know in the room, sure. [00:08:49] Vince Menzione: Mean Yeah, that might help. [00:08:51] Shawn Toldo: So, uh, Sean Todo, I lead the partner business at DBT. I’ve been here about 18 months. Um, DBT really started as an open source tool. That help data engineers be successful in SQL transformation with cloud data warehouses? Right. And so back even to the Redshift days now into what I would call more the BigQuery, snowflake, Databricks fabric led days, um, DBT is the tool of choice amongst the data engineering community in terms of how they wanna drive SQL transformation. [00:09:21] Shawn Toldo: And so more recently, we kind of jumped into this kind of paid world. Which is why we needed to bring in additional experience leadership around go to market product, sales, et cetera. And so when I walked in the door, one of the things I noticed really quickly was we were running on AWS, which was great. [00:09:40] Shawn Toldo: We were doing some AWS marketplace stuff. We were running on Azure in Europe only. And one of my first strategies was we have to be everywhere, right customer. We have to meet customers where they are. And so we, uh, made some major investments to be on Google Cloud platform to then be able to really take advantage of marketplace, to then really be able to take advantage of the co-sell opportunities that exist in the field from a day, day-to-day AI perspective with Google. [00:10:07] Shawn Toldo: And it has been a hell of a ride. We launched on, uh, Google Marketplace in July of last year. We went to Google next and we were Google Partner of the Year. Wow. For data and analytics in a very rapid way. We’re now in three, uh, data centers around the, the world. So we’re here in the us, we’re in Frankfurt, we’re in uh, uh, UK as well. [00:10:30] Shawn Toldo: And so it’s been a pleasure to work with D and the broader team. Because the enablement we’ve had and the support we’ve had from that group has really helped our growth be up and to the right. The data point I would give is that when I walked in the door, we were 10% of our business from an A RR perspective was transacting through marketplace. [00:10:48] Shawn Toldo: Last quarter we cracked 40%. Whoa. We will be at north of 50, uh, next quarter. [00:10:53] Dai Vu: Wow. [00:10:54] Shawn Toldo: The other piece that Vince was talking about is we’re getting ready to merge with a company called Five Tran. And so there will be a new company name at some point down the road. Uh, pay attention on June 1st for a public announcement around that merger. [00:11:06] Shawn Toldo: Uh, but we’re really looking forward to what we’re gonna be able to do with folks like DI and the Google team as well as others in the ecosystem. Um, ’cause I think in this data world that we’ve played for so long. This trusted foundational element of data and what it’s gonna mean to context in the AI world. [00:11:23] Shawn Toldo: We’re in a very interesting place to really continue our growth rate at a high level. [00:11:28] John Janke: Yeah, that maybe just a comment something there. Start there. I think we, we used to hear people say we wanted to be strategic with cloud, go to market and get to say 10 or 20% of revenue. I think this like 40, 50%. Yeah. Th that’s where people are setting the bar these days. [00:11:43] John Janke: Yeah. So the numbers are getting really crazy. Yeah. Uh, and people are showing up and being like, I have to go big. Mm-hmm. So a huge change over the last few years. [00:11:52] Vince Menzione: Yep. What’s the experience you’re seeing as well? I mean, it, it was a huge amount of buzz at next. [00:11:57] Dai Vu: Yeah. I mean, so interestingly, um, you know, typically when, when people get started on the, on the marketplace in Cosal journey, I always try to caution them and say, this is, uh, this is like a multi-year. [00:12:07] Dai Vu: Yeah. Uh, process. You have to be very intentional. You have to invest. It’s not gonna be a thing where you just list and, and, and, and, and, and sort of this channel opens up. So in some ways, Sean is describing an acceleration that is not common, right? Uh, so they’ve done, we’ve done some amazing things together and we hope to keep that acceleration going. [00:12:22] Vince Menzione: What does that require, by the way? Is it engineering resource? I mean, there’s, I talk about executive commitment and maniacal focus. Yeah. But it’s all those things, right? [00:12:29] Shawn Toldo: Well, all of it. But we went to a QBR in Austin, and I put up a slide and I said, we have to do this. And everybody in our ETE agreed. So when you have a chief financial officer that’s bought into the partner business. [00:12:43] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. And I guess qualifying coming into this role at this company, I qualified the C-level staff. Uh, like are they really serious about partner or not? And it’s one of the reasons I took the role. So I think executive commitment was one thing. I think the second thing is we were really well supported, um, by the Google team across the board, right? [00:13:02] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. So folks, Indy’s team that we would work with regularly on, these are the things you need to do to have an effective marketplace offering. Here’s what you need to do operationally with folks like John and team and others that are in the market, right? That helped us a ton to be able to scale. And then the other thing that we did is we changed comp. [00:13:20] Shawn Toldo: So from our VP of sales levels down, we have a 5% kicker for everything that goes through marketplace. [00:13:26] Vince Menzione: Hear [00:13:26] Shawn Toldo: that everyone. So as soon as we incented the sales team, I love that, right? We, we created the foundation on the partner side, but then from top down on the sales side, they were all in. And as a result of that, the question would become, okay, which marketplace stage two sales cycle are we gonna go use? [00:13:42] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:13:43] Shawn Toldo: Who’s the right partner to go partner with? And then my team is reaching out to make sure that co-sell connection happens. [00:13:48] Vince Menzione: That is such a best practice, Sean, to, because there is, as a seller out in the field and we talk about, you talk to John, talks about rev ops all the time. But getting rev ops eng getting the field engaged in the right way. [00:14:01] Vince Menzione: ’cause it feels like it’s more work for them. ’cause they have to think, they have to have more conversations with their customer about their cloud commitments and things like that. Mm-hmm. And then getting them incentive to do the right things. The right behavior. [00:14:12] John Janke: Yeah. It’s a strategy process. People, technology problem. [00:14:17] John Janke: Yeah. It’s not just some flip API automation, go list something if you don’t like that top down view. I think the other thing. Like there’s a, there’s a theme in startups where VCs fund second time founders. I think Sean and team have done this before and they took a lot of learnings over the years and reapplied them, which I think helps them go faster. [00:14:36] John Janke: It’s like that second time. Yeah. Second time cloud go to market Founder theme. [00:14:41] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we could talk about the platform and all the changes there on the. The, the commitments and everything. Mm-hmm. Uh, what separates ISPs generating real incremental revenue on your, in your marketplace? What, what do you see? [00:14:58] Dai Vu: Yeah, so I mean, I, I think there are a couple things. Number one is, uh, the, the foundation has to be, uh, this better together story, uh, with Google Cloud. Um, so this idea that what, you know, what do you bring, what does the Google platform bring and how does that drive impact with customers? And I think this is the reason why Sean and DBT Labs has been very effective. [00:15:16] Dai Vu: ’cause our field recognized they, they can recognize that better together story and communicate it to their customers. So I think that’s the foundation. For everything. Right. And I think as you get started, uh, you know, we do tell partners that they probably need to lean in a little bit, uh, in terms of focus, uh, you know, pick a vertical, a customer segment, um, you know, a geography where they’re particularly strong and, you know, get that momentum going. [00:15:39] Dai Vu: And once you do that, the field knows about it and starts to pull you into deals. Um, so I think that’s the other big opportunity. And then the other thing I just mentioned. Which, uh, the panel already touched on, which is be very intentional around all the things you need to do to invest. Whether it’s like, uh, you know, the business functional alignment, uh, the policies around like, uh, pricing and, and comp, uh, making sure you have the operational capabilities. [00:16:02] Dai Vu: These are all things everyone has to do to get to that. First five to 10 deals, and then 10, 20, 30% of your business through marketplace. And not to, not to top you Sean, but our very top partners are driving 80 to 90% of their business on marketplace. And in fact, some of these partners are actually only marketplace first, uh, uh, because they started out that way. [00:16:21] Dai Vu: Obviously it’s the bigger challenge if you have an existing channel, you’re trying to shift that. But, uh, the aspiration to be more marketplace focus, uh, is up there. [00:16:28] Shawn Toldo: So I just set a new goal for the business plan for me. So that’s exciting. I love it. Looking forward to seeing you in six months on that. [00:16:35] Shawn Toldo: It’s good. [00:16:36] Vince Menzione: I love [00:16:37] Dai Vu: it. Work together on that. [00:16:38] Vince Menzione: Well, di I’m just gonna add, add this because I, I got to see operationally with some of the things you do. Mm-hmm. You, you have an overlay organization. [00:16:45] Dai Vu: Yes. Yes. [00:16:46] Vince Menzione: And so you put accelerants in place within your own organization Yeah. To drive the ISVs into the, into the lines of business. [00:16:54] Vince Menzione: Right. You have, you, you do some of that to accelerate. [00:16:57] Dai Vu: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think this is somewhat unique. I don’t, I don’t wanna speak to the other [00:17:00] Shawn Toldo: hyperscalers, [00:17:01] Dai Vu: but we do have, um, uh, you gotta know the field roles, right? [00:17:04] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. So [00:17:04] Dai Vu: obviously at Google Cloud in the regions, we have, uh, ISV sales specialists who are effectively quoted on marketplace revenue, right? [00:17:12] Dai Vu: So they’re a hundred percent focused on that. And, uh, in addition to that, uh, we also have these, uh, co-sell teams, partner teams where, you know, opportunistically if there’s an opportunity, uh, in a, in a, in a particular area. This team is responsible for connecting the regional sales leadership, uh, the regional, uh, sales teams with, with the partner on the opportunity. [00:17:32] Dai Vu: So there’s a lot of things we’re doing to sort of accelerate that. And of course, the foundation for all this is, you know, our, our, you know, registering deals. And as you definitely get started on that, it’s very important to be very mindful around when you register deals. Uh, be very clear around what the ask and the engagement is with the field reps. [00:17:51] Dai Vu: But once you have that going and get the right rhythm, it becomes sort of a natural way to sort of register all your deals and get that engagement. And then, um, and then maybe the last thing I would say is it isn’t always the sales specialists. It’s, you know, the FSR, our field sales rep as well as our customer engineers are also very motivated. [00:18:08] Dai Vu: To work, uh, with, uh, with our partners because they know that this, you know, whether it be solution completeness or it’s part of a bigger workload or helps unlock greenfield opportunity, they really are motivated to engage with the partners. [00:18:21] Vince Menzione: Nice. [00:18:22] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. I’ll just add, I’ll just add to that statement too. I think, um, it’s one thing to have a story as it relates to. [00:18:30] Shawn Toldo: Google Cloud and what you do with marketplace. It’s another thing to have a story in terms of how you impact data and analytics in our world. And there’s a set of specialist sellers inside of Google mm-hmm. That really care about us because we drive a lot faster consumption of big query. And our ability to tell that story across the world effectively has really created a pull now. [00:18:54] Shawn Toldo: And so I, I would say it’s almost, you know, back to, you know, being 12 years at Microsoft and watching kind of that. Phase and how that went. As we went to the cloud and we picked specialty areas, um, Google is doing that as well and they’re doing it extremely fast in a very, very productive way with partners. [00:19:12] Shawn Toldo: And so, you know, I’ll get comments from like Levi who runs west in north region for us, and he’s a, he was at Google next and he was like, I, I gotta, I, I just gotta go to bed. I’m tired. Like we wore him out over two days with their sales team and gave him a host of follow ups and actions related to specific sales areas as well as specific accounts. [00:19:34] Shawn Toldo: And I think that’s the other thing that, um, Google’s done a good job of, but we’ve pushed and we’ve had to work really hard to earn that seat at the table. To help make those people successful from a comp perspective inside of Google as well. [00:19:45] John Janke: Yeah, and this is a huge failure zone for partners with the clouds because they think enablement’s a one and done thing. [00:19:51] John Janke: Like I did a training for the field and I told them the better together story. That doesn’t work. Like you have to literally. Have consistency around this message every day. Oftentimes you need experts who can partner with your reps to give them the confidence. ’cause they may be able to ask the first line question, but someone asks a follow up and they fold up ’cause they know your product. [00:20:11] John Janke: That’s right. They don’s don’t understand all of the nuances of Google and the clouds and the questions that may come back. But if you do that well, it is a huge unlock. [00:20:20] Vince Menzione: Talk about the coaching you provided on the tackle side of that as well and kind of helping. Through this maturity model? [00:20:26] John Janke: Yeah. I mean we, we, over the years, I mean we started as a pure SaaS company and over the years our customers would consistently ask us for more help and we would struggle to figure out how to do that, and we had to invest in services and we actually acquired a company. [00:20:42] John Janke: Five years ago now, that was the foundation. Aaron Feiger, who’s in the room. The core consulting was the foundation of our services business. And that continues to evolve with us. And you know, we see customers at scale saying, I wanna operate my cloud, go-to market really consistently, and I want you to do all the backend operations so my teams can be outselling our products, selling the better together value with Google and others, and not have to figure out how to run the machinery. [00:21:09] John Janke: So we’ve invested a lot there. We have services around strategy, like how to help people think about their business strategy and translate it into a better together story and able to get executive buy-in. And then we have coaching, which is really a phone, a friend, because I think these things get complicated. [00:21:24] John Janke: And I had a customer who was doing the largest deal in their company history. It was the end of the quarter and it was Friday, and they’re like, this is going to be the most complex transaction we’ve ever done and we have no idea how to do it. Our team gets on the phone with them, they work through, what are you selling? [00:21:40] John Janke: How are you selling it? Is your listing set up the right way? Can we actually create all the offers? In a way you have confidence to execute. ’cause those are failure modes. You try to build a cloud, go to market business, and you mess up the largest deal in the company. On the last day of the quarter, uh, that’s something you can’t recover from. [00:21:55] John Janke: So we try to really wrap support around our customers to help them have the confidence to grow. [00:22:02] Vince Menzione: Di you’ve seen tremendous growth in marketplace. Mm-hmm. We don’t publish the numbers specifically. Yeah. We kind of try to figure it out on the back end, but [00:22:09] Dai Vu: Yep. [00:22:09] Vince Menzione: I know you’re accelerated. Your, your marketplace numbers are astounding. [00:22:13] Dai Vu: Yes. I can share some numbers, if that’s [00:22:15] Vince Menzione: okay. Please. Yeah, let’s go. [00:22:18] Dai Vu: So, um. I would say that for a few years now, we’ve been talking about growth. So we’ve been consistently, uh, you know, north of a hundred percent year over year growth. Uh, for the last few years we’ve been processing, uh, what I say, uh, billions of dollars, uh, annually and, uh, uh, millions of transactions. [00:22:36] Dai Vu: And again, that’s for a few years now. Now for 24 to 25, that full year we also doubled. Wow. Uh, which is, uh, which is amazing when you think about the scale in which we operate. But more importantly, if you look at specific category areas, right? So, you know, historically, marketplace has always cater to, uh, those solution pillars that are tied to cloud migrations, like, uh, like security and data and analytics. [00:22:59] Dai Vu: And those continue to be very strong areas for us. But the biggest growth area is, uh, is in the areas of business app. So obviously, you know, the, the ServiceNow workday, uh, Salesforce of the world, as well as the AI category. So one number that we threw out next was 18 x. Year over year growth for the AI category. [00:23:17] Dai Vu: Wow. So in one year now, a lot of it is models, right? So foundational models with our, with our ecosystem. But a lot of that is around agents. So this whole agent go to market model is gonna be, continue to grow and it’s gonna be a huge focus area for, for the coming years. [00:23:32] Vince Menzione: Fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic growth. [00:23:34] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, and, and I’ll add, Diane and I talked about this at Google next. This is a. Very complex thing for DBT, where today we sell seats. [00:23:42] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:23:43] Shawn Toldo: To data engineers. [00:23:44] Yeah. [00:23:44] Shawn Toldo: And now we have all these agentic things that are hitting our engine. And di and I are talking and we’re like, okay, so how does this work in an ag agentic marketplace? [00:23:54] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. Kind of a scenario. And what should we build? Where should we play it? ’cause we’re gonna spin the meter in a different way, so to speak. [00:24:01] Dai Vu: Yep. [00:24:01] Shawn Toldo: And so candidly, we got stuff to figure out related to that. Um, I think what’s been fascinating for DBT is our partner ecosystem changed overnight. So now it’s like I talked to x.ai on Monday. [00:24:15] Shawn Toldo: Mm-hmm. We got time with open AI on Thursday and we have a call with Anthropic and our, uh, CEO and co-founder and uh, chief Product Officer next week. [00:24:26] Vince Menzione: Mm. [00:24:27] Shawn Toldo: We don’t have anybody managing those partners. [00:24:29] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:24:30] Shawn Toldo: Today our focus is on managing the large, uh, hyperscalers plus Snowflake and, uh, Databricks. [00:24:36] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:24:36] Shawn Toldo: And then the SI ecosystem and some tech partners. So we’re having to like, to your point on Agile yesterday. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like we’re having to change our strategy, operating model and organizational model to support that. And candidly, we don’t have all the answers yet, so we have a lot of things to figure out fast, which is a little bit scary. [00:24:54] Shawn Toldo: And challenging, but it’s also a huge opportunity we have to kind of embrace and get into. Yeah. [00:24:59] Vince Menzione: And they’re figuring out as well. ’cause they’re, they’re new to partnering as well. Yeah. As organizations [00:25:03] John Janke: and these AI agents. I think to demystify for a lot of people, and what Sean said is totally right. [00:25:08] John Janke: They’re disrupting everyone’s business model. But in reality from a marketplace standpoint, they’re metered SaaS. This is a thing that’s existed for a long time. Yeah. They look like product-led growth products. There is a lot of patterns around how product-led growth products work in marketplace. Mm-hmm. [00:25:24] John Janke: But you have to bring your business strategy, your product and pricing strategy to those two categories. Metered SaaS and product-led growth. Put that all together to get cross-functional alignment. So we are seeing like. A lot of people get tripped up here and it really does go back to more of the company strategy, product strategy questions, and a lot of partner leaders are not in the room for those conversations. [00:25:48] John Janke: So I think at, at this point in time, as you see big pivots with the partners to go all in on agents, you have to go elevate. Those discussions to be like, what is our plan here? ’cause I, I mean, pricing and packaging will be the thing that trips almost everyone up. [00:26:02] Dai Vu: If I could, if I just build on what John John mentioned, um, so I do agree. [00:26:06] Dai Vu: P it looks a lot like POG, but, uh, but the difference I think is POG has. More historically been in like the data and developer space, now it’s like the general business user, right? So this idea that you want a business user to be able to search and discover, um, agents that could actually be part of their like everyday workflow is going to be very critical. [00:26:26] Dai Vu: And uh, you know, I do think that when we think about the ecosystem building agents. Uh, you know, a lot of the ISV partners aren’t necessarily gonna own end-to-end workflows, right? They’ll, they’ll have a very specific, uh, domain and scope area, but you have to enable yourself to be orchestrated and managed by, you know, orchestration agents or, or, or meta agents that are gonna span end, end workflows. [00:26:49] Dai Vu: And sometimes that includes system integrators and, and others who can stitch that, that automation. So I think, I think that’s, that’s one piece of it. But the other area that I think is gonna be different is, um. There’s going to be a lot of agents. I mean, literally you’re gonna have a very fragmented set of, uh, uh, of players, right? [00:27:07] Dai Vu: It’s not just gonna be the incumbents, it’s gonna be a lot of disruptors and, and, and, and startups. And so the, uh, for the incumbents in the room, it is a mandate that you need to, to innovate because if you do not identify and go to like an agent first, go to market model. Uh, you’re gonna be, you know, disintermediated. [00:27:25] Dai Vu: Somebody’s gonna go build an agent that’s going to leverage you as a dumb database. Um, and they’re gonna own the workflow. So you have to, you have to push the, the, the, the limits here. And I think it’s creates a big opportunity for everyone in this room. [00:27:39] John Janke: I’m going off script. I’m curious. Let’s do it. I’m curious on your take on the system integrators. [00:27:44] John Janke: ’cause I think this, this puts like they’re all, a lot of them are creating agents for people and I think that’s turning them almost more into software companies than they’ve ever been. [00:27:53] Dai Vu: They are, and I think they’re, you know, obviously they’re being, uh, impacted from like, you know, typical like, you know, SOW you know, time and materials type type business models. [00:28:02] Dai Vu: But I do think they play a big role because a lot of the system integrators are bringing, um, you know, vertical and business process expertise. And, um, like I said, I said before, a lot of the ISVs are not gonna necessarily have big enough scope in their area to own end-to-end workflows. And that’s really the promise of agents, right? [00:28:20] Dai Vu: You really need. This cognitive, you know, reasoning, planning, executing across end to end workflows. And I think, you know, the system integrators are gonna bring that capability either, either through, you know, these custom, uh, orchestration or meta agents or if they’re able to productize that and bring that to a model, they can also sort of go through the marketplace model as well. [00:28:41] Dai Vu: So who knows is how it’s gonna evolve. But you know, we’ve always been talking about. Marketplace being a broader opportunity for all partner business models. And I think that will extend to not only, uh, you know, traditional sort of, uh, sell and services partners, but also some of these system integrators as well. [00:28:58] Shawn Toldo: If I could comment on that, please. Yeah. I, I was in London two weeks ago and we did an SI partner day. Mm-hmm. We had 25 sis in a room, probably about 50 people. We had no, um, hyperscalers or cloud data warehouse providers. And when we started talking about open data infrastructure. The role that they can play. [00:29:17] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:29:18] Shawn Toldo: Cross platform in a cost efficient manner for customers and the advisory orientation of that. They all leaned in and we, we stopped talking and they started talking. [00:29:28] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:29:28] Shawn Toldo: So they’re all facing this kind of same problem, which is actually causing a little bit of a shift, I think, in how they think about, I’m a Databricks partner. [00:29:38] Shawn Toldo: Uh, you sure you wanna do that? [00:29:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:29:40] Shawn Toldo: So this, this whole thing that’s kind of evolved in the last six to 12 months, when you kind of pick one horse to ride, I, I would tell you be cautious about what that means. You may pick a horse to lead with mm-hmm. But you’re gonna have to flank yourself a bit in terms of other providers that can help you be successful with that, that that partner you’re gonna roll with. [00:30:00] Vince Menzione: So you’re suggesting data vendor agnostic. [00:30:04] Shawn Toldo: I’m suggesting you really have to think about your strategy. Yeah. Because I think the AI, AI disruption is gonna make you think about that strategy. [00:30:13] John Janke: Yeah, I mean there’s, someone mentioned anthropics First Partner Summit. I was not there, but I’ve heard from a bunch of people were there. [00:30:20] John Janke: You know, they had a hundred partners in the room. 95 of them were system integrators. Five were technology companies, the three Clouds, Databricks and Snowflake. Like if you just think about the, the one of the major disruptors in ai, ISVs, were not in the mix. So I, I think, are they trying to disrupt all of us? [00:30:40] John Janke: Uh, do they need us? And they haven’t figured out how to work with us. I, I think. It’s, it’s, [00:30:44] Vince Menzione: and I’ve heard they only have five people in their partner organization, so I just, it’s, [00:30:49] Shawn Toldo: it’s 11 now, but it’s 11, [00:30:51] Vince Menzione: so it was five [00:30:51] Shawn Toldo: last growing fast in the, in the new company I have 50. So like, to put it in perspective, they have to make some pretty big priority. [00:30:59] John Janke: Yeah. And everyone’s been there a hot second, [00:31:00] Vince Menzione: like, right, exactly. Yeah, they, well, we will talk about the learnings we’ve had over the years, getting to where they need to get to. It’s exciting times. We got a lot to talk about here. Um, I, you know, we have about 15 minutes. I I, I want to kind of gauge, ’cause we could talk, we, we have a few things we could talk about, I could ask about, but I want to see if there’s an, like, an interest in opening up to the room for questions. [00:31:25] Vince Menzione: ’cause I feel like we’ve got a very interesting group here. [00:31:28] Shawn Toldo: You got a hand here? [00:31:29] Vince Menzione: Uh, are there hands that wanna Yeah, there’s some people that wanna ask some questions. So Yeah. We have a mic? Yeah, [00:31:37] Dai Vu: we have [00:31:37] Shawn Toldo: a mic. We, [00:31:37] Vince Menzione: we [00:31:38] Shawn Toldo: got one here. [00:31:38] Vince Menzione: We got one here. One here. Thank you. Sorry we went off script, but [00:31:44] Shawn Toldo: that’s fine. [00:31:45] Vince Menzione: It’s fine. [00:31:45] Dai Vu: Off [00:31:45] Vince Menzione: script. Better is good. [00:31:46] Shawn Toldo: I’m sure you planted the questions outta anyway. It’s okay. We [00:31:48] Vince Menzione: did, we did. [00:31:55] Audience Guest: Okay. All Eva, Sean Lightner, quick question to your, uh, increase on the marketplace, and you said you spiff the salespeople by fifth percent. 5%. Mm-hmm. So, and that obviously drives a very large adoption of, uh, marketplace transactions. How are you accounting for the margin you’re losing on, uh, you know, going through the marketplace? [00:32:14] Audience Guest: And also have you done analysis? I’m sure you have, how much is, uh, shape shifting or shifting from existing versus incremental? [00:32:22] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, it’s a great question. Um, um, lemme make three points. Number one, the backlog statement makes the margin statement not matter. So do you wanna play in that space where a customer’s already bought or not? [00:32:36] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. Or do you wanna force a budget conversation that you have to drive on your own in a direct model? That to me, I think it was 484 4 62 [00:32:43] Dai Vu: 4 6 [00:32:44] Shawn Toldo: 2. [00:32:44] Vince Menzione: That’s new Tam available to you? [00:32:46] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. That, that’s just with one. Right. And we are, we are, uh, running on four marketplaces. So that just increases our tam and makes our, our sellers lives easier. [00:32:55] Shawn Toldo: So on that piece, yes, there’s an expense, but we believe it’s right for growth. So there’s a balance there. Um, I think the, and then the second part of your question again. Sorry, [00:33:05] Vince Menzione: shapeshift. [00:33:05] Shawn Toldo: Oh, shift. We, we actually don’t think we would’ve won the business. So if I go back to our Q4 and I can probably point to three or four deals that went, um, Google Marketplace, we would not have won those deals because we couldn’t have created the budget cycle and that quarter. [00:33:23] Shawn Toldo: To make it happen. Generally a budget cycle is gonna take anywhere from 12 to 15 months. Bingo. Because of the spend that was available to us, we were able to close it in that quarter, and we had the largest Q4 in company history. [00:33:35] Vince Menzione: That is such an important point. I’m sorry. [00:33:37] Dai Vu: Okay. [00:33:38] Vince Menzione: But I, I just wanna, that is such an important point of the budget cycle. [00:33:42] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:33:43] Vince Menzione: Being a year to a year and a half versus being able to tap into a commitment that’s already been made. Yeah, so I just emphasize that [00:33:51] Dai Vu: I was, I was just gonna add real quick, even, even when we see sort of a, uh, a channel shift renewal, which is, you know, it’s on partner paper and it moves to marketplace as part of the renewals, we do consistently see that the, uh, renewal rates on marketplace and the incremental a CB on the expansion and new opportunities tend to be better when it’s on the platform marketplace than than offline. [00:34:12] Dai Vu: And that’s why partners choose to continue to drive renewals on marketplace at a reduced to rev share. But uh, because they see that that growth, [00:34:20] John Janke: we, we, sorry. [00:34:22] Shawn Toldo: We see that as well. Yeah. And I would also make the statement on our land business, when we go through marketplace, we are two x higher across marketplaces. [00:34:30] Shawn Toldo: We’re three x higher with them. [00:34:32] John Janke: Yeah, I think separate new from renewals and then instrument deeply. [00:34:37] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, [00:34:38] John Janke: go proactively talk to your CFO and your head of rev ops to understand their mindset. Because I was with a billion dollar seller a couple weeks ago, their CFO still creates friction in the process, even though they’re selling a billion dollars through these channels. [00:34:52] John Janke: But when they broke it down, their deals are three times bigger. They do them faster. They use more components of the product, which I thought was a really cool one. So customers who buy this platform, many component platforms through a marketplace, end up using six components of the product. Versus a normal land customer who uses two increases gross in net retention. [00:35:12] John Janke: So you have to get to the point where you have the data and you can tell that story real really clearly to your finance team to get support ’cause that they will trip you up if you don’t get them on board. [00:35:23] Vince Menzione: And you’re saying there’s friction in that company. I’m just kind of curious ’cause a billion dollar company. [00:35:27] John Janke: There’s a billion dollar marketplace seller [00:35:29] Vince Menzione: market marketplace company. That’s what I meant. Yeah. But, but the fact that this, their CFO friction, like, is it, is it because they’re not doing a good enough job or? [00:35:37] John Janke: Uh, in, of educating, I, the root of the question is from this person is, would they win without it? [00:35:44] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:35:45] Shawn Toldo: Oh, and is it worth the three points? [00:35:46] John Janke: Right. It’s, it is And, and I think some pe like to me, it’s the cheapest channel in the world. Yeah. Like with committed budget and people to support you winning. Like the, that formula, the math is so simple. [00:35:57] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. For, for a company of our size to go to like the classic resell ecosystem, I gotta walk in with 30 points. [00:36:02] John Janke: Yeah. [00:36:03] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:36:03] Shawn Toldo: It, it’s an illogical conversation. Outside of public sector and growth, you know, geos around the world. And so I, I’ve been lucky to have a CFO that I haven’t had that challenge with, at least at DBTI should say. [00:36:19] Vince Menzione: Really great insights. I think we have, we have another hand up here. [00:36:28] Audience Guest: Yeah. Thanks Susan. The question is for Dai. Uh, my name is Latif Hamani. I’m the founder of Partner System ai. Um, so what we’ve done is we’ve built a, a co-sell AI agent mm-hmm. That your partners can use to Yeah. Reduce all the friction in the co-sell with you. Uh, the questions that I have is, I guess I should back up, so XAWS Madison with a very large alliances, and then I worked, went on the other side. [00:36:55] Audience Guest: For software companies, and even though I had an operational team, I was spending two to three hours on on the keyboard, right? Mm-hmm. Deal registration, emails that can’t be automated, et cetera. So the question that I have for you is, I’d love for you to validate that. You know, unless you are one of the big companies, one of the big enterprises, if you go to the lower end of the enterprise or the mid market, uh, would you validate that there is a challenge? [00:37:20] Audience Guest: There’s a lot of friction for a smaller company. Mm-hmm. Uh, ’cause these marketplaces are complex. Yeah. The cosell is complex. Uh, that there’s an opportunity to really break down that friction with some automation and ai. [00:37:33] Dai Vu: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, we have already been, uh, part of the journey to remove some of the, uh, the friction as part of that selling and purchasing journey. [00:37:43] Dai Vu: Uh. We’re not quite there yet. But, uh, we’ve done things like we have, uh, you know, private offer APIs. We, uh, we have co-sell, uh, registration automation. Um, you know, we have tools like, uh, propensity to buy, tooling to help, uh, partners do, uh, more targeted efforts. Um, but the a i piece is still coming. Um, so I think, uh, the idea here is that we have launched a number of agents as part of our, um. [00:38:08] Dai Vu: Uh, part of our, uh, Google Cloud Partner network, partner hub. Uh, so these are, uh, agents that are gonna do a bunch of things to help partners as part of their workflow, but we’re gonna extend this to the marketplace and ISV area as well. Uh, so I think there’s a lot of opportunity. So, uh, I know there’s probably a lot of feedback in friction, uh, in, in certain parts. [00:38:29] Dai Vu: So we can, we can go tackle together. [00:38:32] Vince Menzione: Hey. There you go. There was a little [00:38:34] Dai Vu: plug [00:38:34] Shawn Toldo: there for tackle. Exactly. [00:38:37] Dai Vu: Uh, and I wanted, and just to be clear, I want to take a look at it from the end to end, uh, uh, flow, right? It shouldn’t just be just marketplace. It should be all the way from like, you know, top of the funnel, demand generation, all the way to like post transaction follow up. [00:38:51] Dai Vu: So we really need to take a look at, at the, the end, end flows and figure out a way we can remove some of that friction [00:38:56] Vince Menzione: three sense. [00:38:57] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:38:59] Vince Menzione: Any more questions [00:39:00] Audience Guest: back here? Hey. Hey guys. This, this is a really good discussion. Uh, di this question’s primarily, uh, from, I’m interested in the hyperscaler response. [00:39:09] Audience Guest: Yep. Uh, but all of you, uh, can you talk about the patterns or say more about the patterns between. Um, the consumption of just platform capabilities versus industry workflows. Mm-hmm. And how industry where I, I mean, I, I, my sense is that industry workflows are becoming more [00:39:27] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:39:28] Audience Guest: Uh, the easier thing for enterprises and SMBs to buy. [00:39:33] Audience Guest: Yeah. Especially SMBs, I think. Um, but say more about those patterns that you’re seeing develop and kind of what is. Uh, who are, where, where are those kind of, where is the demand being driven? Is it, is it, yeah. The search and discover in the marketplace, or is it being led by field sales of mm-hmm. Either GCP or partners? [00:39:55] Dai Vu: Yeah, so let me, I’ll mention a couple, a couple areas where, where it’s growing. So I think number one I mentioned before about some of these large horizontal business apps that we’re partnering with, right? Um, and, uh, and of course the fact that we’re, we’re, we’re transacting them through marketplace is, is a huge. [00:40:14] Dai Vu: Evolution from a few years ago. So who would’ve thought you would be buying like, you know, a hundred million dollars a CB deals, uh, through, through marketplace with like a Salesforce or a ServiceNow workday. But it’s happening now. And to be clear, all these. Horizontal business app. They’re not doing this in a very, you know, opportunistic, transactional way. [00:40:32] Dai Vu: They basically see marketplace and cloud go to market as a strategic growth lever for them. So that’s one big area. So from just a pure large deal perspective. Okay. Then you mentioned before around sort of corporate and SMB. Well, we find that a lot of the big opportunities are mostly around as they scale their business, uh, they’re not necessarily looking for things in the traditional sort of infrastructure space, but they’re looking for, you know, full SaaS applications to help scale their business, right? [00:40:58] Dai Vu: So it would be CRM, finance, hr, these types of solutions to become very attractive for some of this, uh, downstream market. And then lastly, as I mentioned before, which is, uh, when we think about this gentrification and owning, um. Uh, driving, uh, this business process and vertical, the ISVs become very important along with the services partners who bring that domain expertise to drive the end to end workflow. [00:41:25] Dai Vu: So I think that’s gonna be increasingly important. So those are three areas I think we need to watch out for. We. Okay. [00:41:30] John Janke: Maybe one thing, like as the cloud commit grows inside of companies, it’s shifted from being an engineering department, IT department budget line item to a corporate finance budget line item. [00:41:40] John Janke: Typically one of the top five to 10 expenses in a company. So that has shifted. Who is thinking about optimizing? The cloud commit with marketplace contracts. And that opens, that’s really opened up the avenue in addition to like these biz apps, vertical apps players. Yeah. Like having success. So I, I do think even inside your own company, evaluating where your cloud commits are, who owns them and are they thinking about the intersection of marketplace? [00:42:06] John Janke: ’cause I, I think it’s smaller companies, they’re still figuring it out. I run into engineering leaders who still own the commits, uh, but in medium to large companies. Very different. [00:42:16] Vince Menzione: Really good point. Because it, you know this, the optics change dramatically, right? This large commitment is now at the board level, [00:42:23] John Janke: right? [00:42:23] John Janke: And then you do have to teach your sellers as a vertical or business application player how to ask that question. ’cause the first resistance everybody says is, oh my, my person, my stakeholder, we. Manufacturing vertical application provider talking at an event last week, and they’re like, the shop floor manufacturing owner doesn’t know anything about the cloud commit. [00:42:43] John Janke: But if they ask the question, be like, Hey, do you guys have a strategic relationship with Google? Would it be easier to buy our product on the bill? Eight out of 10 times they get a yes. So [00:42:52] Vince Menzione: which is why the 5% comes in And that really accelerates the conversation happening. Yeah. We’ve got three more minutes. [00:43:01] Vince Menzione: Um, if we don’t have any other questions, I ha I have one for each of you really about the maturity model and partners are in the room that are not committed yet, right? We’ve talked about some very significant DBTs doing some incredible things, right? So we, there’s maybe a sense that like we, you, you are working with the be the biggest and the best out there, but what about everyone else that’s in the room that maybe isn’t committed yet? [00:43:23] Vince Menzione: And maybe they’re in motion, but they need some help and advice on what to go do next. What? What would you say die first? [00:43:30] Dai Vu: So they’re early stage, [00:43:31] Vince Menzione: early, early stage or not, they’re not on board yet. They’re not, yeah. They’re not with you yet. [00:43:35] Dai Vu: Yeah. So I’ll, I’ll go back to my earlier comment, which is that as you go into the journey, just be very intentional about what you need to do from an operational, investment people, uh, technology perspective. [00:43:47] Dai Vu: Uh, because it could be, it could be a multi-year journey. Um, uh, so I’d say go into it with the right expectations as opposed to thinking it’s going to be some accelerated six month thing that Sean has been driving here. It’s, he’s the outlier. [00:43:59] Shawn Toldo: But, but the reason for the outlier, [00:44:00] Dai Vu: yeah. [00:44:01] Shawn Toldo: And just to add to the intentional point Yeah. [00:44:02] Shawn Toldo: Is, you know, hire the right people. Right. So, somebody told me a long time ago, uh, hire slow, fire fast. That’s a really, really, really good principle that I take. Mm-hmm. I don’t like the fire part, obviously, but just for context, I, I am very lucky to have a great set of leaders that we were able to add people in. [00:44:24] Shawn Toldo: When I walked in the door, we had a person that was leading the Snowflake and AWS partnership. I had nobody on GCPI had nobody on Microsoft. I had nobody on Databricks. And then we made prioritization decisions on where we’re gonna go next. And so we hired people that had the experience and could drive the outcome in the right way. [00:44:43] Shawn Toldo: But we were very thoughtful about when we made those decisions on a quarterly basis, not a daily basis. So who you’re gonna bet on and then who you’re gonna put in the seat to make that bet come to life, I think is a really important thing as well. [00:44:58] John Janke: Yeah. [00:44:58] Vince Menzione: John, you worked with the be biggest and the best out there, so Yeah, sorry. [00:45:01] John Janke: Well, I think there’s the, like there’s the bottoms up and the tops down. Like seven years ago, this was all bottoms up. It was a partner leader who thought launching a marketplace would be good and they would go figure out how to do some deals and then sell their way up. Today there’s a lot more top down where people get it. [00:45:17] John Janke: But you can evaluate top down pretty fast. ’cause if you go talk to your CEO, you talk to your head of product, you talk to your CFO, and they have an allergic reaction to these concepts. You know, you have to go bottoms up. But there also are success story examples in every single ISV category that exists. [00:45:33] John Janke: Like this is not just security and data and DevOp like the, I think the ServiceNow. Salesforce workday. Examples are really great, like the marketing tech examples, more and more business of vertical apps every day. So I do think you can look at those people who’ve been successful. Maybe they’re your competitors, maybe they’re people you aspire to be and reference them as you’re trying to figure out how to do top down. [00:45:55] John Janke: But like you need both. You can’t win long term unless you get top down and bottom up aligned. [00:46:01] Shawn Toldo: And, and when I, when I would go ask for resourcing, I would always get the question, do, could you go faster with more? And I’d say, no. Gimme the one or two humans here, let me go prove it out and I’ll come back. [00:46:13] Shawn Toldo: So there’s a little bit of a strategy in doing that, that you’re gonna get more over time when you’re, you know, very measured in how you go ask for investment and resource. And so I would just add that point also. [00:46:27] Vince Menzione: Was, was hiring a significant component of your executive commitment, Sean? I mean, [00:46:33] Shawn Toldo: yes. So when I walked in the door at DBT, we had eight people in the partner organization. [00:46:38] Shawn Toldo: Today we have 25, and that was 18 months ago. But that did not happen. I didn’t go in and ask for, you know, that 16 people. Right. I asked over time in a very measured way with, you know, the programs and strategy team, like, what can we also support? You don’t want to bring somebody in to go do something and you don’t have the programs and operations side to support it ’cause they’ll fail. [00:47:01] Shawn Toldo: So we’ve been very thoughtful about how we’ve done that as well. [00:47:04] Vince Menzione: Die from you. I know you had something. [00:47:06] Dai Vu: No, no, no. I, I was good. [00:47:08] Vince Menzione: What is the one thing that people in this room need to go better and differently? Is there one, is there one specific thing other than what we’ve already discussed, did we miss anything? [00:47:16] Dai Vu: No, I would just, the whole identification. So obviously, uh, identifying this is not just like slapping a chat bot, but more around thinking all the things we talked about, product commercials, but also go to market where it’s agent first, where you can surface your agent in a workflow like Gemini Enterprise app. [00:47:34] Dai Vu: That’s gonna drive high alignment with how we work and go to market with Google. [00:47:38] Vince Menzione: Awesome. [00:47:38] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:47:40] Vince Menzione: Wow. Good stuff. Yeah. Very good session. [00:47:44] Dai Vu: Thank [00:47:44] Vince Menzione: you guys. What do you think? Everyone? Thank you very much. [00:47:47] Shawn Toldo: Thanks for listening to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. [00:47:50] Vince Menzione: If today’s conversation resonated, share it with a partner leader in your network. [00:47:55] Vince Menzione: Subscribe where you listen, and head over to the ultimate partner.com. For show notes related content and the resources for this episode. And if you haven’t already, now’s the time to register for the Ultimate Partner Live Event in Reston, Virginia, [00:48:11] John Janke: October 26th through October 28th. [00:48:14] Vince Menzione: Until next time, keep showing up in the rooms that matter because being in the room changes everything [00:48:22] I.

Gunnar Fischer: From Staying in Your Line to The Connected Product Owner—Two Patterns Every Scrum Master Should Recognize The Great Product Owner: The Connected PO Who Makes Information Flow Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "This Product Owner didn't need to be the smartest person in the room, but everybody knew, okay, this is a really smart guy." - Gunnar Fischer   The best Product Owner Gunnar ever worked with was what he calls the connected PO. This person had a deep professional network—inside the company and with the customer—and could talk to anyone: a colleague, the client, a brand-new team member they were onboarding. They were socially sharp without being shallow. They could disagree clearly, even harshly, and then turn around and say, "now let's talk about something else," with kindness. When this PO said no, it was a no people respected; when they said yes, it was a yes people trusted, because everyone knew the PO could push back. The praise behind their back matched the praise in the room. They had a private life, too—not married to the job, which made them a more well-rounded human. But the specifically Product Owner skill Gunnar names is this: they could look at the product across different time horizons—what does it need to do in one month, three months, one year—and they kept juggling functionality, contracts, customer situation, and economic reality at the same time. Their technical background helped, but they understood the line: "It's not my job to be the technically most savvy guy, but I'm willing to share my knowledge with everybody." As Gunnar puts it, the difference between a subject matter expert and a Product Owner is that the Product Owner makes the information flow.   Self-reflection Question: Does your Product Owner make information flow across the team, the customer, and management—or are they hoarding context as the "expert"? The Bad Product Owner: The Stay-in-Your-Line, Accept-Your-Fate PO Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "You manage the backlog, you do the customer calls, you write the user stories—but you were not involved in any of the bigger decisions." - Gunnar Fischer   The anti-pattern Gunnar sees most often isn't malice—it's resignation. Most Product Owners aren't given the access or the permissions they need to be successful, and so they accept their fate. They manage the backlog, take the customer calls, write the user stories, sometimes talk to management—but they aren't part of the bigger decisions: ROI on a feature, whether to build it at all, the product vision a year out. Management keeps those decisions to itself, and the accept-your-fate PO doesn't challenge that arrangement. They stay in their line. They don't push back when sales drops in an urgent request that ruins the plan. They don't challenge the developers when an estimate feels wrong. They become very protective of the things they can control—their privileges, their processes, the artifacts—and when the bad times come, they get thrown under the bus. Gunnar's diagnosis is direct: the role of a great PO is to have constructive, respectful disagreements at every level—with the client, with management, with the team—and to be okay disappointing people. "Once you see that people go down to the mechanics, then it's a really bad smell, I would say." Saying yes to everything doesn't make you safe; it makes you replaceable.   In this segment, we refer to Geoff Watts' Scrum Mastery and its line about the great Scrum Master being dispensable and wanted—a frame that applies to Product Owners just as well.   Self-reflection Question: Where in the past month did your Product Owner say "yes" when the right answer was a respectful "no, not yet"?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Rocket Lab is buying Iridium for $8 billion, Blue Origin has a new plan to get New Glenn flying again without rebuilding the same pad architecture, and NASA just awarded four new CLPS missions. This episode of Main Engine Cut Off is brought to you by 32 executive producers—Warren, Matt from Built, Theo and Violet, Tim Dodd (the Everyday Astronaut!), Natasha Tsakos, Lee, Donald, David, Matt, Joonas, Russell, Steve, Frank, Will and Lars from Agile, The Astrogators at SEE, Josh from Impulse, Fred, Joel, Kris, Pat, Joakim, Miles O'Brien, Stealth Julian, Jan, Ryan, and four anonymous—and hundreds of supporters. Topics Rocket Lab to acquire Iridium - SpaceNews Rocket Lab to Acquire Iridium in Historic Deal, Creating A New Glenn Return to Flight - Blue Origin NASA Awards More Moon Base Science, Previews New Opportunities NextSTEP-3 B: Moon Base Demonstrations - NASA Episode 154 - They Ran Into Us (with Matt Desch, CEO of Iridium) - Off-Nominal The Show Like the show? Support the show on Patreon or Substack! Email your thoughts, comments, and questions to anthony@mainenginecutoff.com Follow @WeHaveMECO Follow @meco@spacey.space on Mastodon Listen to MECO Headlines Listen to Off-Nominal Join the Off-Nominal Discord Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Pocket Casts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn or elsewhere Subscribe to the Main Engine Cut Off Newsletter Artwork photo by SpaceX Work with me and my design and development agency: Pine Works

Gunnar Fischer: Healthy Flow of Value in a Healthy Work Environment—The Ecosystem Definition of Success Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "A successful Scrum Master is healthy flow of value in a healthy work environment." - Gunnar Fischer   Gunnar's definition of success comes in one phrase that hides a lot of work: healthy flow of value in a healthy work environment. The work environment, he says, is an ecosystem—it doesn't have tigers, but it has plenty of layers and forces that can throw the balance off. You start at the team: are we reaching our goals most of the time? (If always, you might be playing too safe.) Then you move outward to the customer: who are we doing this work for, and are they succeeding? Then to the company: what's good for the customer might still be bad for the financials. And finally back to the individual: a team can be hitting its goals, the customer can be happy, the company can be making money, and a person on the team can still be quietly under-challenged and ready to leave. Gunnar measures the flow side with the four Kanban guide metrics—cycle time, throughput, work item age, and work in progress—but he keeps reminding himself that finishing isn't the same as getting feedback. Did the customer use what we built? He's been demotivated more than once by seeing a "very important" piece of work go untouched after delivery. And then there's the social side: the level of healthy, constructive disagreement, and reading the room when colleagues from a culture that doesn't say "no" go silent.   In this episode, we refer to Kanban flow metrics (cycle time, throughput, work item age, WIP) and the importance of treating the backlog as options, not promises.   Self-reflection Question: When was the last time you measured not whether the team finished something, but whether the customer actually used it? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: What, So What, Now What? Gunnar's favorite retrospective format is What, So What, Now What?, one of the Liberating Structures (and free to read up on online). He used it after a tense production deployment that succeeded but left the team rattled. Instead of jumping to "we need to do exactly this," he forced the team to split their thinking: what are the facts we can describe, so what is our interpretation of those facts, and now what are the possible options going forward. Sounds simple. But the brain hates incomplete pictures—it auto-completes them with speculation. That instinct kept our ancestors alive when they couldn't see the full tiger behind the bushes; it ruins our reasoning at work. By making the team distinguish hard between fact and interpretation, the format produced three concrete ideas. Within three months, the team had implemented all three, and things improved. Gunnar's broader takeaway about retrospectives: don't run them right after the event ("get a coffee, step away from your desk for fifteen minutes"), don't wait two months either, and—above all—"people need to look like winners when they're going into a difficult retrospective." Then honor their time by following up. If nobody else does the follow-up, the Scrum Master has to be the reminder.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Bad Agile Is Dying... And That's the Best News Agile Has Had in YearsAgile isn't dying.Bad Agile is.And honestly...that's fantastic news.For nearly two decades, organizations around the world raced to become "Agile."Some invested heavily in coaching.Others purchased new software.Many reorganized entire departments.Unfortunately, somewhere along the journey, a surprising number of organizations confused Agile with process.Stand-ups became status meetings.Sprint Planning became project planning.Retrospectives became complaint sessions.Story points became performance metrics.Velocity became a management scorecard.Scrum Masters became meeting coordinators.Product Owners became backlog administrators.The framework remained.The mindset quietly disappeared.Over time, employees became frustrated.Executives questioned the investment.Teams felt overwhelmed by ceremonies that no longer seemed connected to delivering value.Then something predictable happened.Organizations didn't reject Agile.They rejected bad experiences disguised as Agile.That's an important distinction.- [website] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [instagram] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [facebook] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [Linkedin] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/

Gunnar Fischer: Three Transformations at Once—How to Build Momentum When Everyone Is Exhausted Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "You're not only writing for the leadership—you're always writing for the gallery." - Gunnar Fischer   Gunnar brought a juicy challenge to Wednesday: his company is running three transformations in parallel, at three different levels, all at different stages and degrees of success. People are exhausted. The word "change" triggers an allergic reaction. And yet, in the same breath, those same people will tell you the organization needs to change. So how do you create momentum in a climate worn down by theater and abandoned initiatives, when the managers who launched them have moved on? Gunnar's first insight is that the human species is built for change—the problem isn't appetite, it's the feeling of not being heard. Even hinting "I think I know your situation, and I took a note from our last conversation" opens people up. Vasco pushes the analysis further: when three transformation teams each visit the same Scrum team with different topics, the team ends up spending all its time discussing transformation instead of doing the work. Gunnar's counter is simple math—be realistic that 90% of capacity is work and 10% is learning, plan accordingly, and start small with a single pilot team. He recalls one successful turnaround driven by a "wall of concerns" where leaders read out anonymous worries and answered them publicly. The response didn't need to be perfect; it just needed to exist. And the hidden lever, he says, is what Vasco calls "writing for the gallery"—when you ask a good question in a town hall, you're not really aiming at leadership; you're showing hundreds of colleagues "you're not the only one." That's where systemic change actually starts.   In this episode, we refer to Liberating Structures, which Gunnar uses heavily in his change work, and the importance of linking transformation work to bottom-line financials or capability metrics so it survives the next urgent customer request.   Self-reflection Question: In your current change initiative, what visible evidence do people have that leadership is actually listening—not just communicating?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

AI Won't Replace ScrumMasters... Or Will It?Will artificial intelligence replace the ScrumMaster?It's a headline that keeps resurfacing. Social media is full of bold predictions. Industry blogs continue debating it. Conference sessions are packed with people looking for answers. And if you've spent any time on LinkedIn recently, you've probably seen more than a few posts claiming that AI is either the greatest thing to happen to Agile—or the beginning of the end.- [website] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [instagram] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [facebook] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [Linkedin] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/

Recorded live from the Davos on Air booth at the World Economic Forum's Annual Meeting of the New Champions in Dalian, this special episode of Sinica tackles the "pacing problem": the widening gap between how fast AI moves and how slowly regulation can catch up. I sit down with Xue Lan, dean of Schwarzman College at Tsinghua University and one of the architects of China's concept of "agile governance," to unpack what that term means in practice. He traces China's regulatory evolution from the 2017 AI plan through the generative AI rules and the 2021 tech crackdown, compare Chinese, American, and European approaches, and ask whether Beijing's adaptive style can travel to other political systems — including liberal democracies.00:09 – Live from Dalian: the “pacing problem” and why AI has turned it into a chasm03:18 – Introducing Xue Lan, dean of Schwarzman College and architect of “agile governance”04:34 – Why AI's pace makes it uniquely hard to regulate06:01 – Defining agile governance: mindset, partnership over adversary, and light-touch tools11:54 – From the 2017 AI plan to today: China's two-track approach to tech and governance20:07 – Balancing development and security amid the US-China AI race23:24 – Revisiting the 2021 tech crackdown: failure of the model, or agility of a different kind?26:14 – The “DeepSeek moment,” open-weight models, and regulatory uncertainty by design37:10 – EU comprehensiveness vs. US patchwork vs. China's modular, adaptive approach46:59 – Can agile governance travel to liberal democracies? Finding common ground on global AI riskSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Gunnar Fischer: The Anti-Pattern Bingo Team—When Success Is a Zero-Sum Game Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "This was neither Scrum, nor a team. It was more like the anti-pattern bingo team." - Gunnar Fischer   When Gunnar took his first job abroad, he walked straight into what he calls the "anti-pattern bingo team"—a supposed Scrum team that was neither Scrum nor a team. The company was in trouble, the team had a bad reputation and was used as a punching bag, the manager-of-manager treated them like a stepchild, and the new manager didn't seem to know what he had signed up for. The team members themselves didn't really want to work together. The goals slipped. Decisions were made in back rooms, outside the official meetings. And underneath it all sat the most corrosive belief Gunnar names: that success is a zero-sum game—if you win, I lose. With that mindset, there is no team, just individuals defending turf. One pattern stuck with him so clearly he gave it a name: sandcastle planning. The team would finish a Sprint planning, agree on a goal, and the manager would walk in right after the meeting and overturn the whole thing with his own priorities. Over time, the team stopped putting effort into planning. Why build the castle if someone will trample it? Even worse, when an escalation finally surfaced, Gunnar—an immigrant—was told that as a German, he must be "very authoritarian." A label, served up as analysis. That was the moment he knew the team would never have safe disagreements, never reach the right level of challenge, never recover.   In this segment, we talk about scrum master anti-patterns, the corrosive effect of treating people as labels, and how the absence of an explicit reason for the team's existence makes everything else collapse.   Self-reflection Question: Does your team have a clear, explicit reason for existing—or are you just a group that shares a technology, a building, or a reporting line? Featured Book of the Week: Scrum Mastery (2nd Edition) by Geoff Watts For Gunnar, the book that shaped him most as a Scrum Master is Scrum Mastery (2nd Edition) by Geoff Watts—what he calls "the noble knight of Scrum books." He first read it just after a Scrum course and thought, "What should I even do with this kind of wisdom?" Years later he came back to it and understood. A few years after that, he became modest about it: these are truths, but it's about making them true—and watching for when they aren't. The book is full of phrases like "a good Scrum Master is indispensable; a great Scrum Master is dispensable and wanted." That last line captured it perfectly for him: success isn't being unneeded, it's being chosen. As Gunnar puts it: "In times when everybody is challenged and people are making fun of agile practitioners, this brings back all of the ideals of what a Scrum Master is really about." You can also listen to our previous episodes with Geoff Watts on the podcast.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Episode # 154: Most FP&A teams aren't short on effort they're short on time to think. When the calendar is dominated by budgets, monthly reporting, variance explanations, and forecast refreshes, finance can end up reacting to problems after they've already hit results. That's risky in a world of rapid market shifts, customer behavior changes, supply chain disruption, and nonstop technology transformation.We walk through how agile strategy applies to financial planning and analysis without throwing out long-term goals. The difference is execution: shorter planning cycles, frequent reassessment, rolling forecasts, and continuous scenario analysis that keep assumptions current. I explain why traditional FP&A models become reactive, especially when finance is separated from sales, marketing, operations, HR, and supply chain and only sees emerging issues once they appear in the financial statements.Episode outline: What is Agile Strategy?Why traditional FP&A can become reactive, andLet's examine some key agile principles.Please connect with me on:1. Instagram: stephen.mclain2. Twitter: smclainiii3. Facebook: stephenmclainconsultant4. LinkedIn: stephenjmclainiiiFor more resources, please visit Finance Leader Academy:  financeleaderacademy.com.Send us Fan MailSupport the showStephen is an experienced Finance Professional and Leader who offers fractional CFO services and development opportunities. Please visit his LinkedIn profile or Finance Leader Academy for more information. 

Gunnar Fischer: Accepting Not Being Accepted—The People-Pleasing Trap That Broke a Scrum Master Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "I accepted not being accepted, and that was a big failure." - Gunnar Fischer   Gunnar's biggest failure wasn't a single bad decision—it was an attitude he carried into work for far too long. As an Agile coach and Scrum Master, he watched a new high-ranking manager arrive who didn't like the team, didn't respect them, never even officially introduced herself. And Gunnar did the worst possible thing: he played along. He did the people-pleasing dance without ever getting feedback, recognition, or even a basic conversation. He formed ideas as a team, did the work, asked for nothing back—and accepted that nobody looked at the work. In hindsight, the Scrum value of respect was the missing piece. "The members of a Scrum team respect each other to be capable, independent people, and are also respected as such by the others." Gunnar respected others. He did not demand that respect for himself. The wake-up came in Ecuador—swimming with sharks in the open sea, he realized he felt safer there than in his own office. So he updated his CV, took an internal switch, and finally stepped out of victim mode. His real insight is uncomfortable: if you read about something good—getting time for your own development, being heard, being respected—and you instinctively deflect it or make excuses for why you can't have it, that's a very clear indicator you've internalized being small.   In this episode, we refer to The Coach's Casebook by Geoff Watts, specifically the chapter on people-pleasing.   Self-reflection Question: When was the last time someone described a healthy professional environment to you, and you found yourself making excuses for why you couldn't have it?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Agile Estimation and Story PointsStory points are a way of estimating the effort required to complete a user story or any other piece of work in agile software development. A user story is a short description of a feature or functionality that the customer wants from the product.- [website] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [instagram] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [facebook] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [Linkedin] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/

You may have come across the quote: “Motivation gets you started, but discipline keeps you growing." By John C. Maxwell, the author and leadership mentor.  Motivation is an interesting concept. It's often required to get things started, but if you only rely on your motivation to do something, particularly if that something is not easy or particularly enjoyable, it won't keep you going.  This week, we're looking at how to use motivation to develop the right habits that will keep you consistent.  Links: Email Me | Twitter | Facebook | Website | Linkedin The 2026 Summer Sale page The COD Productivity Method  Learn more about the Quiet Productivity Method here Get Your Copy Of Your Time, Your Way: Time Well Managed, Life Well Lived The Working With… Weekly Newsletter Carl Pullein Learning Centre Carl's YouTube Channel Carl Pullein Coaching Programmes Subscribe to my Substack  The Working With… Podcast Previous episodes page Script |423 Hello, and welcome to episode 423 of the Your Time, Your Way Podcast. A podcast to answer all your questions about productivity, time management, self-development, and goal planning. My name is Carl Pullein, and I am your host of this show.  One of the consequences of writing a journal every morning is that you come up with a lot of ideas about how you would like to change your life or the way you work. And many of those ideas can motivate you to try something new.  That could mean reading a real book every evening instead of watching TV or scrolling through the news and social media. Or perhaps to go out for an evening stroll after work, or plan your day the evening before, so you can enjoy a more relaxing evening. All seemingly easy to do.  And then you decide to do it. The first day is easy, the second a little less so and by the time you get to the end of the week, you've lost all motivation and picking up a book or going outside for a walk feels like the last thing you want to do after such a hard day. So you skip it. It's only one day, it can't do any harm, can it? And then the next day you don't do it, and the day after that and so on. Eventually, that great idea you had about changing a bad habit has ended up in the pit of tried-but-forgotten great ideas.  It happens to all of us. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you; all it means is that you're relying on one of the most overrated ways to change something, motivation.  Motivation is fleeting; it never lasts, and it hates reality. It's also affected by the quality of your sleep, how distracted you are, and your overall mood. It's a very unreliable friend.  Great at encouraging you to get started, but terrible at keeping you going when things get difficult.  The good news is there is a more reliable way to make changes, but the bad news is you may need to initially feel uncomfortable. Yet it's worth it.  So, with that said, let me hand you over to the Mystery Podcast Voice for this week's question.  This week's question comes from Fran. Fran asks, Hi Carl, what do you do when you don't have the motivation to do what you have planned to do?  Hi Fran, thank you for your question.  To answer your question directly, I don't rely on motivation. I remember the days when I smoked, and almost every night, when I went to bed, I would motivate myself not to smoke the next day.  Thinking about that now, it's funny, because as I was “motivating” myself, I was smoking my last cigarette of the day. “No, I won't smoke tomorrow!” Then, when I woke up in the morning, I would make my coffee, then go outside for my first cigarette of the day.  Where was my motivation when I needed it most? It wasn't there.  In the end, I finally quit smoking by removing all temptation from the house and not carrying any money with me when I went out. Just my travel card and a lunchbox. It was tough, but after a couple of weeks, the habit was disappearing, and by the end of the month, I could not imagine smoking again.  I've seen this time and time again with people. Those who motivate themselves to go out for an evening walk after dinner, for example. It's easy to do that in the summer, when it's likely still light outside and the weather's warm and dry.  Then the temperatures cool, the light fades, and the rain comes down. “Ah, it's cold and raining, I won't go out tonight, I'm tired anyway, and I left my umbrella at the office.”  The one that still surprises me, though, is the daily planning.  Daily planning takes no more than five minutes and can be done just before you finish your work for the day or as the last thing in the evening, before you go to bed.  Five minutes, and after a while, it can be done in 2 or 3 minutes.  And yet, people still struggle. Why? Because they are relying on motivation.  I remember when I first read Hyrum Smith's Ten Natural Laws of Time and Life Management, and when I read the chapter on planning your day, I was incredibly motivated.  I was fortunate that as I was reading the book, I was setting up my Franklin Planner and one of the steps when using a Franklin Planner is to do the “planning and solitude” exercise every day.  It was suggested that you give yourself 15 minutes a day for this, and the first thing you wrote at the top of your Prioritised Daily Task list was “Planning and Solitude,” which would be given priority A1. It was the most important task of the day.  And that's what I did every evening. I sat at the table with my planner and planned out the next day. Then, I checked off the Planning and Solitude task. This meant that by the next day, my first task was already complete.  And since then, which was the early 1990s, I haven't missed some form of a daily planning ritual. I cannot imagine going to bed not knowing where I need to be and what needs to be done.  I doubt now I could get to sleep without knowing. I even do this when on holiday.  Just saying that now means I've consistently planned my day for over 30 years! WOW! The people who succeed at staying consistent with their plans are the ones who start small.  Often, we will take a course or read a book, get motivated and try to change everything all at once.  That's the hardest way to do it. Recently, I've been watching documentaries on how great football managers turn teams around. I've now studied Pep Guardiola, Sir Alex Ferguson, Johan Cruif and Mikel Arteta. And there's a common thread between all of them.  When they took over a team, the team was not performing. Often, they were struggling at the bottom of their league.  Yet, the change didn't happen overnight. It was a slow, step-by-step process. In all cases, they first fired old players who may have been brilliant, but were unwilling to adopt a new philosophy or were a bad influence on new players.  They recruited professional players who were willing to adapt to the new style of play. And in almost all cases, their first season was not great.  Then things began to change: the team started climbing the league and eventually winning trophies.  These managers treated the necessary changes as a project. It wasn't about “motivating” the players to play better; it was about having them buy into the new culture of doing things.  As Arsene Wenger, the legendary Arsenal manager, said in one interview when talking about his successor following his retirement: “We need someone who understands that football is not just about winning. It's about how you win. The philosophy has to come first. The results follow the philosophy, not the other way round. The philosophy is not a tactic. It's a value”  In other words, when you decide something needs to change, knowing why it needs to change is important. What's your reason, your philosophy and the value behind that change?  When you know the reason you want to change, “motivation” no longer comes into it.  One of my clients works for a company that was advised by a well-known consultancy to change its management methods to an “Agile” system.  There was then a flurry of activity by senior management, a great deal of money spent on training, and many employees were made redundant.  Ten years later, that company has slowly moved back to the way they managed things before they were force-fed Agile. What went wrong? Well, the motivation was high at the start of the transformation. Senior managers were buying into the vision that the consultancy company was selling. The problem was that there was no clear reason to change.  Sales were great, the culture was one of the best in the industry, and people loved working for the company. The company's sales team had strong relationships with their customers, and while there were areas for improvement, there was no need for a root-and-branch change in how everything was run.  Today, the company is struggling against its competition, the employees are demotivated, and sales are average at best.  And yet the Agile methods could have worked had the reasons for the change been better communicated. My client still has no idea why the company changed its management methods.  Without a strong reason to change, you will find your motivation runs out very quickly.  Talking with some of the members of my Retirement programme, I'm surprised by how quickly they start taking health and fitness seriously after retirement.  We go through our working lives sitting for 8 hours a day, slowly and quietly destroying our posture and mobility. We don't sleep enough and eat convenient food because who's got time to eat healthily when you have hundreds of messages to respond to, and you've got to get the latest marketing campaign finished by the end of the week? And then we go for a medical check-up and discover that we are pre-diabetic, we have early signs of heart disease, we are no longer able to get up out of a chair without using our arms, and we haven't seen our feet for years. Suddenly, we've found the motivation to eat and sleep better. We take those daily walks, and many of us join fitness classes.  But to continue with this new, healthier lifestyle requires more than motivation. There needs to be a purpose.  Recently, it was reported that former Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson had been diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer. He was fortunate that the cancer was caught early, and he's now in remission.  Suddenly, a guy who lived an unhealthy lifestyle of cigarettes, wine, sitting around, poor sleep and extreme work schedules has become a non-smoking, vegetarian, teatotaller  Sure, the shock of being within a year of death was pretty good motivation, but why is he sticking to his new lifestyle? Because, as he says, he wants to see his grandchildren grow up. Now that's a pretty good reason for making these difficult changes.  So there you go, Fran. Motivation is great for getting you started, but ultimately, you want a very good reason to change what you want to change.  Getting organised, improving time management, and being more productive are nice things to do. You feel more in control of your life, are more relaxed, a lot less stressed, and you find you sleep better. But the most important thing is to know why you are doing it.  For me, being less stressed, being more in control of my time, and getting the right things done at the right time give me more time to spend with my family and do the things I love.  That's my “why”. That's why I make sure I do my daily and weekly planning, why I am strict about what I say yes to and why I will never let my email and messages become backlogged.  I hope that helps, and thank you again for sending in your question.  Thank you to you too for listening, and it just remains for me now to wish you all a very, very productive week.   

In this episode, Ricardo challenges whether traditional two-week Agile sprints still make sense in an era where AI agents can develop, test, review, and improve software in minutes. While Agile principles such as collaboration, adaptability, and customer focus remain essential, their execution may need to evolve. As AI dramatically accelerates software development, the main bottleneck shifts from execution to human decision-making, including prioritization, validation, quality assurance, and risk management. This transformation questions the relevance of fixed sprints, story points, and traditional Agile ceremonies. Ricardo suggests that project managers will increasingly orchestrate AI-driven workflows instead of managing tasks, arguing that human judgment will remain the key competitive advantage in teams where people and AI agents work together. Listen to the podcast to learn more!

Neste episódio, Ricardo questiona se os tradicionais sprints de duas semanas ainda fazem sentido em um cenário em que agentes de inteligência artificial desenvolvem, testam e corrigem software em minutos. Embora os princípios do Agile permaneçam essenciais, sua execução pode precisar ser reinventada. Com a IA acelerando a implementação, o principal desafio deixa de ser a execução e passa a ser a tomada de decisões, como definir prioridades, validar resultados, garantir qualidade e gerenciar riscos. Nesse novo modelo de desenvolvimento contínuo, o gerente de projetos deixa de controlar tarefas e passa a orquestrar agentes e fluxos de trabalho. O julgamento humano continua sendo o principal diferencial para gerar valor. Escute o podcast para saber mais!

Olaitan Fashanu: The PO Who Doesn't Care vs the PO Who Always Has the Answer Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   In this episode, we refer to a recurring theme in past podcast episodes—the proxy product owner who can't make decisions because they're not theirs to make. The Great Product Owner: Always Available, Always Decisive, Always Has the Context Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "There was nothing you tell, any questions you have about a particular feature that this guy doesn't have an answer to. And that really moved the team so fast." - Olaitan Fashanu   The best PO Olaitan ever worked with was the mirror opposite of every anti-pattern he'd seen. Deeply involved in refinement. Took backlog management seriously. Always brought the context. Always available to the team. And—maybe most importantly—always ready to make a decision when devs surfaced trade-offs. The team could ask any question about any feature, and the answer was right there. Not "let me check," not "I'll get back to you," not "what do you think?"—a decision. That single quality, Olaitan says, was what moved the team faster than anything else. As a Scrum Master, when you see a great PO at work, you also see the amplifying waves of impact: motivation rises, quality rises, ownership grows. Olaitan's takeaway is sharp: the success of our job depends on how well the product owner does theirs.   Self-reflection Question: When was the last time your PO made a real-time decision that unblocked the team in a single conversation—and what's preventing that from being the norm? The Bad Product Owner: Doesn't Care About Impact, Can't Make Decisions Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "The product owner cares about delivery. We just need to release to the customer. That is something I don't like." - Olaitan Fashanu   Olaitan describes two anti-patterns wrapped into one bad-PO type. The first: the PO who doesn't care about the impact of their work on the team. Tickets dropped without context. No refinement. No problem framing. Just "ship by end of month." The data shows up in Jira if you're paying attention—patterns of churn, quality issues, customer complaints, slow market response. Beyond the numbers, the team loses motivation, frustration creeps in, and eventually you lose the team entirely. The second anti-pattern, layered on top: the PO who can't make decisions. Developers come back with two options and the trade-offs—and the PO can't pick one. Vasco connects it to the proxy PO pattern explored in past episodes—a PO whose decisions aren't actually theirs to make. The cost is the same either way: the team stalls, ownership erodes, and stakeholder conflict grows.   In this segment, we refer to the proxy PO anti-pattern explored in earlier episodes of the podcast.   Self-reflection Question: Is your PO unable to decide—or unable to be allowed to decide? The difference changes which conversation you need to have, and with whom.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

The Rise of The Authentic Agile Leader I’m obsessed with voice. If you look carefully at history….THERE IS NO politician, writer, performer, or business leader who got the attention and results they’re famous for WITHOUT BEING BOLD. Like the revolutionary voices of our culture, the authentic Agile leader has the potential to create a new future. It doesn’t matter WHAT future, only that it is different than status quo. An evolution from what we have done for the past quarter century. After all…aren’t we supposed to be about iteration and innovation? If you like this episode you might also like: Episode 229 – Why Sameness Is Not A Strategy Sameness Strikes Again Create A Movement With Your Voice NEW! PICK YOUR PRODUCT! Reclaim control of your income and opportunities by picking a market that is hungry for your solution – and defining a product that they will pay for – in just 90 minutes! Don’t be late to this trend! Sign up today! **FORGE GENESIS IS HERE** All the skills you need to stop relying on job postings and start enjoying the freedom of an Agile career on YOUR terms. First cohort starts in Q1 2026 https://learning.fusechamber.com/forge-genesis **THE ALL NEW FORGE LIGHTNING** 12 Weeks to elite leadership! https://learning.fusechamber.com/forge-lightning **JOIN MY BETA COMMUNITY FOR AGILE ENTREPRENEURS AND INTRAPRENEURS** The latest wave in professional Agile careers. Get the support you need to Forge Your Freedom! Join for FREE here: https://learning.fusechamber.com/offers/Sa3udEgz **GET THE BUSINESS OUTCOMES PARTNER PLAYBOOK** Learn how to deliver undeniable ROI that saves your job and accelerates your future https://learning.fusechamber.com/outcomes-partner-playbook **CHECK OUT ALL MY PRODUCTS AND SERVICES HERE:** https://learning.fusechamber.com **ELEVATE YOUR PROFESSIONAL STORYTELLING – Now Live!** The most coveted communications skill – now at your fingertips! https://learning.fusechamber.com/storytelling **JOIN THE FORGE*** New cohorts for Fall 2025!  Email for more information: contact@badassagile.com We’re also on YouTube! Follow the podcast, enjoy some panel/guest commentary, and get some quick tips and guidance from me: https://www.youtube.com/c/BadassAgilea ****** Follow The LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/badass-agile ****** Our mission is to create an elite tribe of leaders who focus on who they need to become in order to lead and inspire, and to be the best agile podcast and resource for effective mindset and leadership game. Contact us (contact@badassagile.com) for elite-level performance and agile coaching, speaking engagements, team-level and executive mindset/agile training, and licensing options for modern, high-impact, bite-sized learning and educational content.

Olaitan Fashanu: I Love Data—Why Success for a Scrum Master Means Doing the Hard Measurement Work Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "You don't get better by not trying to be better." - Vasco Duarte (channeling Olaitan's own discipline)   For Olaitan, success as a Scrum Master comes down to two things—team effectiveness and team health—and he refuses to guess at either. Twice a year, in what he calls his winter and summer cycles, he runs a structured team health check survey to capture how confident people feel, whether they hold each other accountable, and whether psychological safety is real or theatrical. Between those checkpoints, he runs constant one-on-ones—and not just with developers. QAs, designers, the PO. Everyone gets the conversation. He pulls outside-in feedback from customers and partner teams too, because effectiveness measured only from the inside is fiction. "I love data. Maybe it's my background in mathematics. I love looking at patterns, comparing things." The work is real, the load is real—but for Olaitan, refusing to do it is the same as refusing to grow.   Self-reflection Question: If you had to prove to yourself today that your team is genuinely effective and healthy, what data would you actually have—and what would you only be guessing at? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Start / Stop / Continue (and a twist Vasco offers Olaitan) Olaitan's go-to is the simple Start / Stop / Continue format—the easiest way he's found to get even quiet developers to engage, especially at the start of a new iteration. Vasco offers him a twist mid-episode: what if you only used one of the three? When the team is overwhelmed, run a Stop-only retro. When a release just shipped and energy is high, run a Start-only retro. Breaking the format pattern creates a small spark of "wait, why is this different today?"—which is often exactly the energy a tired team needs. Olaitan also shares a second favorite: the Friction vs. Drivers (or Fuel) format—mapping what's slowing the team down on one side and what's actively energizing them on the other. The two sides of the same coin, made visible.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

As AI becomes embedded in software development workflows, many leaders assume the biggest changes will happen in coding. The reality may be very different. The future belongs to AI Team Systems—the structures, feedback loops, and operational practices that transform rapid development into meaningful business outcomes. During Building Better Developers Season 28 Episode 9, Dave Borzillo explored how Agile principles may evolve in an AI-powered environment and why human collaboration remains essential.   About David Borzillo David Borzillo is an Agile coach, author, speaker, and organizational improvement advocate with more than three decades of experience spanning software development, leadership, Agile transformation, and product delivery. Through his Better Ways of Working platform, he helps organizations improve collaboration, reduce operational friction, and create sustainable delivery systems. He is the author of Sanity at Scale and Who Killed Agile? (co-authored), and United Agility, and hosts the Better Ways of Working podcast. Follow David at: https://betterwaysofworking.com/about.htm Bonus: Free Kindle Promotion

Olaitan Fashanu: Three Teams, Three Backlogs, One Feature—Can You Make Them See Each Other? Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "How do we ensure that these teams actually work together to show the same data?" - Olaitan Fashanu   Olaitan brings a problem most Scrum Masters in scaled environments will recognize. Three teams. Three separate backlogs. One product, accessed across app, web, and support channels. Leadership made a top-down team topologies decision: split the work to move faster. Predictable result—each team optimizes for their own backlog, blind to what the others are building, sometimes shipping the same feature twice with different behaviors. The product owners know there's overlap. The teams love the idea of linking tickets across backlogs. They just won't maintain the habit. Olaitan and Vasco walk through experiments together: a sync between POs, joint refinement sessions, linking tickets, putting "this is also being built by Team B" notes at the top of stories. The deeper insight: the Scrum Master's job is to keep surfacing information until a habit forms. As Vasco's old lifting coach put it—you find the imbalance, you get rid of the imbalance, one by one. That's how you get stronger.   In this episode, we refer to team topologies and the practice of surfacing information across team boundaries.   Self-reflection Question: Where in your organization are teams unknowingly building the same thing twice—and what's the smallest experiment you could run this week to make that visible?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

WAgile - Is Hybrid Project Management Finally Real?WAgile is a hybrid project management approach that uses traditional governance and planning to establish direction while using Agile practices to continuously adapt execution based on learning and feedback.- [website] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [instagram] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [facebook] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [Linkedin] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/

The Agile Mentors Podcast is taking a short summer break, but that does not mean the conversation is stopping. In this special update, Brian shares what is ahead for the show and introduces a new podcast exploring one of the biggest questions facing modern teams: what happens when AI becomes part of how work gets done?   Overview   As the Agile Mentors Podcast pauses new episodes for the summer, Brian takes a few minutes to reflect on what this community has explored together over the years. While Scrum, Agile, product ownership, leadership, and coaching have been recurring topics, the deeper theme has always been people: how teams learn, collaborate, make decisions, and improve over time.   Brian also shares details about his new podcast, People Over Prompts, which will focus on the changing relationship between humans and AI at work. As AI moves beyond being a simple tool and becomes a more active collaborator, organizations are being challenged to rethink team structures, workflows, accountability, and decision-making. What does a team look like when every person is supported by multiple AI agents? What responsibilities should remain firmly human? And how do we preserve judgment, creativity, and shared understanding in an AI-enabled workplace? This episode offers a preview of those conversations while looking ahead to what comes next for both podcasts.   References and resources mentioned in the show: People Over Prompts podcast #82: The Intersection of AI and Agile with Emilia Breton #175: When AI Makes Agile Teams Worse with Hunter Hillegas AI Doesn't Eliminate Agile Teams — It Increases the Need for Great Ones by Mike Cohn Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast   Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we'd love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you'd like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode's presenters are: Brian Milner is a Certified Scrum Trainer®, Certified Scrum Professional®, Certified ScrumMaster®, and Certified Scrum Product Owner®, and host of the Agile Mentors Podcast training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work.

We're celebrating PFN's birthday by shining a light on the partners who have been part of our journey toward people-first leadership, meaningful work, and purpose-driven impact. This special feature from Unlocked with Skot Waldron captures the heart of their work and the shared mission that brings us together. Enjoy! — Work can either drain people or deepen their sense of purpose. It's time to design workplaces that do the latter. Skot sits down with Mindy Honcoop, founder of Agile in HR and longtime people leader, to explore what it really means to put humans at the center of business strategy. With over 20 years in HR leadership, Mindy shares why organizations must move from reactive problem-solving to proactive, people-first design, especially when it comes to role clarity, onboarding, culture, employee experience, and organizational alignment. Together, Skot and Mindy unpack how leaders can listen better, ask better questions, and connect the employee story to the customer story. From reducing workplace churn to creating emotional loyalty, this conversation is a powerful reminder that when people feel seen, supported, and connected to purpose, organizations thrive.   Additional Resources: Connect with Skot on LinkedIn Listen to Unlocked wherever you get your podcasts! Subscribe to the PFN YouTube Channel for daily leadership insights! Follow PeopleForward Network on LinkedIn Learn more about PeopleForward Network   Key Takeaways: Put people at the center of strategy. Proactive leadership creates healthier workplace cultures. Employee stories reveal the real problems. Loyalty grows when people feel deeply cared for. Small, curious questions can spark meaningful change.

Olaitan Fashanu: When the New PO Stops Refining—and the Team Starts Self-Destructing Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "If we're actually doing the job of refining this ticket properly, then we will not be creating this tension in the team." - Olaitan Fashanu   The team was working well. They had a strong PO who came to refinement with the problem clearly framed: this is what we want to solve, here's the context, here's the user story, here are the acceptance criteria. The team picked it up, refined it, ran with it. Then change came. A new PO joined—and the routine collapsed. The new PO cared about one thing: hitting the delivery date. Tickets dropped into Jira with no context, no problem statement, no acceptance criteria. Just "this needs to ship by end of month." Within weeks, Olaitan saw the symptoms cascade through the team. Developers asked designers what tickets even meant. QA struggled to maintain quality. Tension built. The diagnosis was clear: refinement had broken. His fix? Bring back the Definition of Ready as a non-negotiable shared standard, and introduce a product trio—business viability, technical feasibility, and design usability collaborating on every story before it reaches the rest of the team.   In this segment, we talk about the Definition of Ready and the product trio collaboration model.   Self-reflection Question: What's the symptom you're seeing in your team right now—and could the real source be how stories are getting refined, not how they're getting built? Featured Book of the Week: The Secrets of Facilitation by Michael Wilkinson Olaitan calls out The Secrets of Facilitation by Michael Wilkinson as the book that shaped how he handles difficult moments. The book teaches the power of asking the right question at the right time—clarifying questions, probing questions, the questions that drive a stuck group forward. "You will understand how, when to ask clarifying questions, ask really powerful questions that will help you drive or probably help you reach your goal in any session you find yourself." For Olaitan, the biggest payoff was learning to manage group dynamics in real time—what to do when something said in a meeting lands badly, when a comment threatens to derail the room. As a Scrum Master, you live in those moments. This book hands you a toolkit for them.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Olaitan Fashanu: The Scrum Master Who Tried to Force His Way In—and Got Schooled Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "When you want to make things work, you need to find a way to carry people along. Lead, not by forcing your way on the team, because you're working with smart people, you're working with professionals." - Olaitan Fashanu   When Olaitan transitioned from project management into the Scrum Master role, he carried his old habits with him: enforce, push, drive. Then he walked into a team of senior developers. In one retrospective, a team member casually suggested that someone could help set up Jira properly. Olaitan took it personally—wasn't that his job? The next day in the daily standup, he called it out publicly. The reaction told him everything. The team member shut down. The PO pulled him aside afterward to say, "We could have had a better discussion around this." That moment, Olaitan realized that having no formal authority isn't a weakness to compensate for with force—it's the whole point. The job is to influence, to nudge, to coach—even when the conversations are hard. Especially when they are hard.   Self-reflection Question: When was the last time you raised a difficult topic in a way that closed the conversation instead of opening it—and what would it have cost you to bring it up differently?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

AgileDad and Agile LeadershipAgile is not a magic word. It is not a sticker you put on a broken system and suddenly expect better outcomes. Agile leadership training should do one thing above all else: help leaders create real change that people can feel in the work, in the culture, and in the results.- [website] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.agiledad.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [instagram] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [facebook] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠- [Linkedin] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/