Podcasts about dental lab

"Practicing with Integrity" Episode 5 - Dr. Scott Perkins Host Dr. Daniel Galindo interviews Dr. Scott Perkins, a prosthodontist with nearly 40 years experience in academia, private practice, group practice, and mentoring. A prosthodontist is a dental specialist who focuses on restoring and replacing teeth and oral tissues, specializing in procedures like dental implants, dentures, […] The post Episode 5: Practicing with Integrity with Dr. Scott Perkins appeared first on Business RadioX ®.

Do you ever wonder what your dental techs really think about you? In this episode of Clinical Edge Fridays, Kirk Behrendt brings back Dr. Christopher Mazzola and Dr. Charlie Ward to pick the brain of Joshua Polansky, owner of Niche Dental Studio, to answer your burning questions and to reveal the secret to a great relationship and partnership with your dental techs. To hear one dental tech's advice for becoming a better dentist, listen to Episode 861 of The Best Practices Show!Learn More About Dr. Mazzola, Dr. Ward, & Joshua:Join Dr. Mazzola on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/christopher.d.mazzolaFollow Dr. Mazzola on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christopherdmazzoladdsSend Dr. Ward an email: charlie@bmoredentalarts.com Follow Dr. Ward on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcwardddsFollow Joshua on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nichedentalstudioRegister for Dr. Mazzola & Dr. Ward's Mastering Treatment Planning course (October 2-4, 2025): https://pankey.org/registration/?courseId=17004&tuition=0&lodging=trueRegister for Dr. Ward's Mastering Aesthetic Restorative Dentistry course (June 17-20, 2026): https://pankey.org/course-category/mardRegister for Dr. Mazzola & Dr. Ward's Mastering Dental Photography course (July 30, 2026 to August 1, 2026): https://pankey.org/registration/?courseId=17781&tuition=0&lodging=trueLearn More About ACT Dental:ACT's webinars: https://www.actdental.com/134ACT's website: https://www.actdental.comACT's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actdentalACT's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/actdentalACT's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/actdentalACT's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/3137520/admin/feed/posts/ACT's Twitter: https://twitter.com/actdentalMore Helpful Links for a Better Practice & a Better Life:Subscribe to The Best Practices Show: https://the-best-practices-show.captivate.fm/listenJoin The Best Practices Association: https://www.actdental.com/bpaDownload ACT's BPA app on the Apple App...

DENTISTS: In this episode Frank and KJ discuss all the key takeaways from Lab Day 2025, make sure you listen to the end! We include updates on Material, Technology, AI, Automation, 3D Printers, Scanning, and so much more. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here.Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :)Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdentalFollow Frank on Instagram: @frank_nuartdentalLearn more about the lab at https://www.nuartdental.com/new-dentist-contact-form/

Dr. Jeff Trembley has an amazing story of perseverance after being rejected from Dental School multiple times en route to becoming Nashville's premier cosmetic dentist. He talks about the importance of dental photography, maximizing success with dental labs, and why this is the Golden Age of dentistry. Ladies & Gentlemen, you're listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Connect with Dr. Trembley on instagram at @jftrembley and email him at Drt@smileonnashville.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram at @lifeatnuartdental, you can also reach us via email: kj@nuartdental.com Learn more about the lab and request information via our website: https://www.nuartdental.com/new-dentist-contact-form/

A dental lab that serves Hollywood celebrities and an NFL team?!Business Listing - https://gottesman-company.com/active_sellers/s-3173-4-jpm/

A dental lab that serves Hollywood celebrities and an NFL team?!Business Listing - https://gottesman-company.com/active_sellers/s-3173-4-jpm/

“Practicing with Integrity” Episode 4 – Collaborating with Integrity Host Dr. Daniel Galindo discusses periodontics, dental implants, wine, greek cuisine, and plenty more with his guest Dr. Aristidis Pontikas, owner of Pontikas Implants & Periodontics. CLICK HERE to watch the video of this epiosde. About The Podcast Series "Practicing with Integrity" shines a light on […]

“Practicing with Integrity” Episode 4 – Collaborating with Integrity Host Dr. Daniel Galindo discusses periodontics, dental implants, wine, greek cuisine, and plenty more with his guest Dr. Aristidis Pontikas, owner of Pontikas Implants & Periodontics. CLICK HERE to watch the video of this epiosde. About The Podcast Series "Practicing with Integrity" shines a light on […] The post Collaborating with Integrity E4 appeared first on Business RadioX ®.

Make sure you visit Ivoclar (https://www.ivoclar.com/en_us) at LMT Lab Day Chicago 2025 (https://lmtmag.com/lmtlabday). Ivoclar will be in their usual spot at Grand Ballroom A&B in the East Tower, on the Gold Level. Right across from the registration desk. Register today! (https://lmtmag.com/ivoclar) Make sure you come see VOICES FROM THE BENCH recording from the Ballroom all weekend! Attend the 99th Annual Cal-Lab Meeting (https://cal-lab.org/) Feb 20 & 21 at the Swissôtel in Chicago. (Connected to the Hyatt and Lab Day) Elvis & Barb will be *recording there Thursday night during the "Cocktail Hour" from 4:00 to 6:30 * Register today: https://cal-lab.org/annual-meeting This week we had the pleasure of speaking with Jim Thacker, the owner of Utah Valley Dental Lab (https://www.utahvalleydentallab.com/), who shared his inspiring journey from finance to dental lab ownership. Jim began his career in finance, working at Wells Fargo before marrying into a family that owned a dental lab. Initially brought in to handle the business side of things, Jim quickly became immersed in the world of dental aesthetics. Over the years, he has transformed Utah Valley Dental Lab from a small local lab into a thriving business with 123 employees, 40 of whom are also owners. This unique employee ownership model fosters a strong sense of collaboration and commitment among the staff, ensuring that everyone has a vested interest in the lab's success. One of the most fascinating aspects of Jim's approach is his focus on high-end aesthetics and the importance of peer referrals in growing the business. He emphasizes that there's nothing more effective than word-of-mouth marketing in the dental industry. By building strong relationships with their clients, Jim and his team have established Utah Valley Dental Lab as a go-to resource for aesthetic and implant dentistry. He believes in the importance of kindness and fostering a culture where employees feel valued and invested in their work. Jim Thacker's insights into running a successful dental lab highlight the significance of employee ownership, relationship building, and a focus on aesthetics in the dental industry. You are invited to Ivoclar (https://www.ivoclar.com/en_us)'s IPS e.max Panel Discussion Friday, February 22nd stating at 3:00 at LMT Lab Day in Chicago. Our very own Barb Warner will be on stage with Jessica Birrell, Stephenie Goddard, Mike Roberts, Jed Archibald and Dr. Ken Malament as they dive into the world of e.max. After the panel discussion, Ivoclar will host a Happy Hour to commemorate this 20-year milestone. So, please join us by registering at Labday.com/Ivoclar. Make sure you visit Aidite (https://www.aidite.com/) at Booth E-26 during your visit at LMT Lab Day Chicago (https://lmtmag.com/lmtlabday)! They will be there showcasing their exciting new products and cutting-edge solutions in digital dentistry. Attendees can explore hands-on demonstrations of Biomic stain & glaze (https://www.aidite.com/detail/materials/Biomic_Stain_Glaze_130_2.html) techniques and some of their other innovative technologies. Aidite will also host engaging lectures in Grand Suite 2, East Tower, covering topics such as EZneer (https://www.aidite.com/detail/materials/EZneer_113_2.html), 3D Pro-Zir, (https://www.aidite.com/detail/materials/3D_Pro_Zir_111_2.html) Digital Dentures, and their Aidite Cloud design service (https://www.aiditecloud.com/). Even before you go, you can stay updated by following @AiditeNorthAmerica (https://www.instagram.com/aiditenorthamerica/) on all social media platforms. Don't miss the opportunity to see how Aidite is shaping the future of dental labs! Special Guest: Jim Thacker.

Dr. Konstantin Gromov studied dentistry in Russia and brings a unique perspective to the field. He explains the importance of good data intake and how dentists can find a dental lab that is both predictable and reliable. Ladies & Gentlemen, you're listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Connect with Dr. Gromov on instagram at @drgromov and email him at dr.gromov@gmail.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram at @lifeatnuartdental, you can also reach us via email: kj@nuartdental.com Learn more about the lab and request information via our website: https://www.nuartdental.com/new-dentist-contact-form/

Join the GOLDEN BENCH CLUB! All you have to do is leave us a 5-star review and comment on the Apple Podcast app (or any other app and email us a screen shot) and we will read your review on the podcast and welcome you to the Golden Bench Club. This super elite club is only for the best of the best Creating good culture in a dental lab is not easy. It takes dedication from owners and managers to set the path that the lab can follow. Two brothers both went through the apprenticeship program with John Archibald in the 90s. Darin Swartz was instantly hooked and opened up Swartz Dental Arts in the basement of a dental office after graduation. Followed by his younger brother, Mike Swartz graduated and opened his own lab. You would think they would partner up, but for 15 years they ran separate labs in the same space. After seeing technology coming into the industry, it was time to partner up and create Diamondhead Dental Lab (https://diamondheadlab.com/). They talk about doing their own apprenticeship program, growing to 40 employees, creating a culture of partnership and quality, how they stay relevant in ever changing workflows, and staying true to their "North Star" Check out Culture Camp Podcast: https://www.iamjasonhaugen.com/culture-camp Listen to John Wilson from Sunrise Dental Lab (https://www.sunrisedentallaboratory.com/index.php) and take your own lab to the next level by getting in on some of Ivoclar's End of the Year deals (https://www.ivoclar.com/en_us/campaigns/ivoclar-equipment-promotions-2024?utm_source=website&utm_medium=content_tile&utm_campaign=equipment_promo) on equipment. If you are looking for your first or looking to expand your capabilities, Ivoclar (https://www.ivoclar.com/en_us) has just what you need at a time where it's best to invest. Head over to Ivolcar.com or contact your local rep for all the deals today. Don't let the new year come thinking you should have bettered your lab. Special Guests: Darin Swartz and Mike Swartz.

KJ and Frank return with another industry update for Dentists & Dental Lab Technicians from the 4th quarter of 2024. We review the dental lab trends, discuss the key aspects of dental lab service, advancements in digital dentures, the Synergy Guided workflow and more updates from our own lab, Nu-Art. There's so much information out there, we want to make sure all our dental friends and their patients are getting the best of it. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Follow Frank on Instagram: @frank_nuartdental Learn more about the lab at https://www.nuartdental.com/new-dentist-contact-form/

Building Together with Integrity E3 We take pride in the work we produce, and we proudly make it in the USA with the highest quality materials available. We have assembled a team of true professionals that understand these values and love what they do. USA-made products and our team of professionals are the recipe for […]

Building Together with Integrity E3 We take pride in the work we produce, and we proudly make it in the USA with the highest quality materials available. We have assembled a team of true professionals that understand these values and love what they do. USA-made products and our team of professionals are the recipe for […] The post Building Together with Integrity E3 appeared first on Business RadioX ®.

Dr. Tom Lawler practices dentistry in Sin City, also known as Las Vegas. He had an incredible story about a deal falling through that led him to his first practice, and how that learning experience has caused him to emphasized relationship-based partnerships as a dentist and a person. Ladies & Gentlemen, you're listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Connect with Dr. Lawler on instagram at @dr.tomlawler and email him at tom.n.lawler@gmail.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

Spend time with Derek Sven as we review the growth opportunities found at RDH Evolution, spending time with new friends and running into old friends at UOR, and sharing his message from the podium about the Dental Lab Unveiled.

Dr. Sofya Kats is an airway-minded dentist who emphasizes listening more than talking and bringing psychiatry into patient care. She shares her philosophy on dental labs, early intervention treatment planning and so much more. Ladies & Gentlemen, you're listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Connect with Dr. Kats on instagram at @sofyakatsdds and email her at Sofya.kats@gmail.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

KJ and Frank are back with another industry update for Dentists & Dental Lab Technicians from the 3rd quarter of 2024. We review the dental lab trends throughout 2024, discuss developments in 3D printing, Digital Dentures, All-on-X and include some updates for dentists on our own lab, Nu-Art. There's so much information out there, we want to make sure all our dental friends and their patients are getting the best of it. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Follow Frank on Instagram: @frank_nuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

Voices From the Bench is headed back to Florida for the FDLA Southern States Symposium & Expo (https://www.fdla.net/) all thanks to the great people at Jensen Dental (https://jensendental.com/). You know, the makers of MIYO! (https://miyoworld.com/). Come visit Elvis & Barb in the Jensen booth June 7 & 8 in Orlando. Register today at FDLA.NET! Most people don't like to talk about health insurance. Because it's usually with some insurance broker that doesn't know anything about the dental lab industry and is just looking to make money off of us. But one man is changing all of that. Michael Clark was the Senior Vice President of Domestic Sales and Marketing for Argen (https://argen.com/) for 10 years. Michael spent years learning, helping, and growing dental labs around the country. After some personal "events", Michael decided to fall back on another passion of his, providing good employee benefits. But because of his love for the dental lab industry, he is focusing on labs and technicians. Michael talks about his history before Argen, life at Argen, and how a few simple (and inexpensive) changes a lab can make to benefit every employee that works there. https://www.mbclarkcompanies.com/ Wanting to take your knowledge and skills to the next level? If you are looking for the best education dedicated to dentistry in both the labs and clinics, check out Ivoclar Academy. (https://resources.ivoclar.com/lab/en/academy) From on-demand webinars to in-person training, Ivoclar Academy has a program to meet your busy schedule. Check out all they have to offer HERE! (https://resources.ivoclar.com/lab/en/academy) Whether you are looking to elevate your craftsmanship or looking to cut back costs, look no further – VITA MFT Teeth (https://vitanorthamerica.com/en-US/VITA-MFT-Anterior-369,273,126133.html) are the ultimate solution for creating lifelike and stunning smiles. Crafted with precision and backed by cutting-edge technology, VITA MFT Teeth offers unparalleled esthetics and durability. And since VITA (https://vitanorthamerica.com/) believes in the power of experiencing excellence firsthand, for a limited time only, they're offering you the chance to get a complimentary case sample. That's right, a full case, absolutely free. Just visit vitanorthamerica.com/freemft (https://www2.vitanorthamerica.com/mft/) Don't wait any longer to start providing your customers with a premium tooth at an economy price. Redeem your free case sample and if you're ready to buy, VITA will even give you an extra 10% discount by shopping online on their newly launched online store. Join the VITA family today. Special Guest: Michael Clark.

Join me on the latest episode of our podcast where we delve into the world of dental labs and the crucial factors to consider when choosing the right one for your practice. In this episode, we're uncovering the essentials: ✅Customer Service, Accuracy, Quality, Technical Support, Innovation, Warranty, & Guarantee Plus, I'll be sharing my personal experiences with Specialty Appliances. Learn about their founding story, mission, and why they're at the forefront of innovation.

KJ here with an exciting episode that lays out what unique aspects to look for in a quality dental lab, some of our lab's X-Factors and an overall breakdown of WHY so many dentists trust Nu-Art as an extension of their practice. On the surface it can seem like we're just like every other dental lab, but that is FAR from the case. In fact, we are unlike any other dental lab out there. Keep listening to find out what why. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Follow Frank on Instagram: @frank_nuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

Dr. Ellie Halabian is a New York dentist who has opened up multiple practices in the sunshine state. She talks about her obsession with Occlusion, the balance between speed and quality, opening up dental practices and finding your fit as a dentist. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Connect with Dr. Halabian on instagram at @elliehalabian & @_teethmatter and email her at el.halabian@gmail.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

KJ and Frank here with an industry update for Dentists & Dental Lab Technicians as we enter the second quarter of 2024. There's so much information out there, we want to make sure all our dental friends and their patients are getting the best of it. We review the dental lab trends of early 2024, recap the big Midwinter Dental Conference in Chicago, talk Photogrammetry and finish with some lab updates for dentists. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Follow Frank on Instagram: @frank_nuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

Live from the 2023 AAID Annual Conference in Las Vegas! Drs. Justin Moody and Danny Domingue chat with Daniel Marrano, CDT, TE, FICOI about his growing dental lab in Pennsylvania, his experience as a lab technician for over 20 years, and his Annual Conference workshop about analog and digital implant workflows as well as how to use digital tools for success. The views expressed in this episode are those of the individual participants and not necessarily that of the AAID. Links from this Episode: To learn more about Daniel Marrano visit: https://marranodentalarts.com/  To learn more about the AAID visit: www.aaid.com/index.html  

PARAMOUNT DENTAL STUDIO. DOT - Use the Code DENTALDIGEST for 10% off https://www.oneplacecapital.com/ Follow @dental_digest_podcast Instagram Follow @dr.melissa_seibert on Instagram Connect with Melissa on Linkedin Dr. Morr, a dentist in Miami Florida is the owner and founder of TMprosthodontics. He is a specialist in Aesthetic, Implant, and Complex Restorative Dentistry. After Graduating from the University of Florida with a BS degree in microbiology, he continued his education at Tufts University School of Dental Medicine where he graduated Summa Cum Laude with a DMD degree. He went on to study at the University of Washington School of Dentistry where he received his Masters in the Science of Dentistry degree (MSD) and a certificate in Prosthodontics. Dr. Morr has over 24 years of experience in prosthodontics, the diagnosis and treatment of the deterioration of teeth and their supporting structures. He is known for his Comprehensive treatment Approach as he formulates and executes treatment plans that address not only the mouth, but also the face and jaw. Dr. morr has numerous publications in both textbooks and articles in the areas of Aesthetics, Porcelain Laminate Veneers, Dental mplants, and Complex Restorative Dentistry and Rehabilitation. Dr. Morr is a highly regarded speaker and Educator both Nationally and Internationally and he is considered a leader in the field and highly regarded for his contribution to the field of dentistry.

KJ and Frank here with an industry update for Dentists as we enter 2024. There's so much information out there, we want to make sure all our dental friends and their patients are getting the best of it. We review the big things that happened in 2023, what to be aware of as we enter 2024, and finish with some actionable tips for dentist. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental Follow Frank on Instagram: @frank_nuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

Being a dental lab, smiles are our mission. We partnered with the community this holiday season to deliver a school bus full of toys to the kids at Children's Hospital. It's a small way for us to come together, give back, and put smiles on the kids faces. We recap the excitement of the Toy Drive. Do not miss this episode! Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTED THE TOY DRIVE! Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

Dr. Craig Spodak is a unique dentist in the sense where he runs a dental practice and a dental lab simultaneously. We talk about all the excitement that brings, the challenges, and why caring is the best marketing strategy. Do not miss this episode! Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to "Confessions From A Dental Lab" and we're happy you're here. Subscribe today and tell a friend so we can all get 1% better :) Connect with Dr. Spodak on instagram at @craigspodak and email him at drcraig@spodakdental.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @lifeatnuartdental THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTED THE TOY DRIVE! Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com

Dr. Aanchal Chandra is dedicated to positivity and finds herself at the forefront of Texas Dentistry, practicing in Austin, one of America's fastest growing cities. She shares her story of getting into dentistry, providing comfort centered dental care, her tips for aligning with a good Dental Lab and so much more. Don't miss this episode! Connect with Dr. Chandra on instagram: @docaanchopancho and email her at admin@belterradentalatx.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @kjeichstaedt & @lifeatnuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com Subscribe today and tell a friend :)

The first time Dr. Joshua Graber shadowed a dentist, he fainted. Since then, he's loved every moment. He shares his story of being enamored by dentistry since his teen years, learning dental techniques in Colorado Springs, choosing a good Dental Lab and more. Do not miss this episode! Connect with Dr. Graber on instagram: @dr.joshuagraber and email him at drjosh@muellerdental.com Follow KJ & NuArt on Instagram: @kjeichstaedt & @lifeatnuartdental Learn more about the lab at nuartdental.com Subscribe today and tell a friend :)

3D Printing in Dental Labs is on the rise, so we sat down with Jonah, our head of 3D printing, to do an episode covering important topics like role in 3D printing at Nu-Art, the advances of 3D printing in the last year, what type of machines we use, what's an average day like 3D printing in a Dental Lab and so much more. Ladies & Gentlemen, you are listening to Confessions From A Dental Lab, and we're happy you're here. Serving Dentists Since 1977. Choose Excellence, Choose Nu-Art. Learn more at nuartdental.com Follow Frank & NuArt on Instagram: @frankatnuartdental & @lifeatnuartdental Subscribe today and tell a friend :)

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental LabTo check out Dandy's FREE KPI E-Book click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/learning-center/ebooks/dental-industry-kpis/‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍‍Guest: Paul EtchisonBusiness Name: Dental Practice HeroesCheck out Paul's Media:Website: https://dentalpracticeheroes.com/Dental Practice Heroes Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dental-practice-heroes-podcast/id1315253777Dental Practice Hero: From Ordinary Practice to Extraordinary Experience: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-Extraordinary-Experience/dp/099978630X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206813&sr=1-1Dental Practice Hero II: How a 3 Day Work Week Can Give You the Life You Want: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-II-Sequel/dp/1736658972/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206741&sr=1-2Dental Business Mentor:  www.dentalbusinessmentor.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:Dr. Etchison on Episode 300!Dr. Etchison on MMM [INTERNAL MARKETING] SMALL DETAILS THAT MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TEAM COMMUNICATION!Delta DentalKeurigMB2Goldman SachsDie With Zero - Bill PerkinsInvisalignThe Top 5 Regrets of the Dying - Bronnie WareThe Four - Scott Galloway‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Try giving your team the autonomy to own tasks and you may be surprised at what they're capable of!Never be afraid of you or your team messing up. This is an important part of the process of growing!Seniority is NOT always the best indicator of competency in a role.The meaning behind the task is far more important that what you're doing to complete it.Don't criticize team members for dropping the ball. Work together to find a better way to do things!Try to not be afraid of "doing nothing," as this is essential for recharging your creativity.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guests returning guests, Paul Etchison. How's it going, man? Paul: Good. It's going good. Thanks for having me back. I really appreciate it. Michael: No, man. I appreciate it. You've been on the Monday Morning marketing episode, and we're gonna put a link to that in the show notes, but you were also on episode 300 Nelson Ridge Family Dental.Mm-hmm. You just sold right? Paul: Not that long ago. I, well, I sold, yeah, I, I sold to, uh, A D S O about two and a half years ago. So I'm still doing it. I'm still there. I'm still part of it, but my, my part of it is a little bit different now, I guess, than it was in the past, but it's, it's good. I'm, I'm excited for the future and, and I'm coming up on the end of my contract with them, but, um, no intentions on leaving, so I'll be there for long term, which my team is happy to hear.Can we Michael: talk about like, the of that? Like why, how much did you sell for and stuff like that, or no? Paul: Um, no, probably not. Okay. Okay. Then why did you sell? Why did I sell? Um, you know, for me it was coming outta covid. I just like, it was so good. Just not have the practice. I mean, and some people like missed going to work.I didn't miss it at all. I, I mean, I thought I was like really like laid back and I felt like my leads were running a lot of stuff. And then when we shut down for 11 weeks and the practice went away and all the stress went away, it was just like, I just, this weight lifted. And then I, I said when we come back, I'm doing things differently.I, I'm not letting this, I mean, it, it was just like this, realize how much it was in my life, how much it was like taking over like my psyche and just like always occupying my mind. And, and then we came back from Covid and, and we had all these massive other things to deal with, like regulations and, and we're still worried about the virus and stuff.But once things got back to business as usual, I said, Hey man, I'm doing something different. Started exploring the idea of. Man, do I, could I get, what kind of like money could I get for this practice? What does it make sure sense like financially long term to do this and then come, really come to grips with the fact that.Coming to Grip with that. It wasn't so final. Like if I loved being a dental practice owner and I sold it and it was horrible and I hated the corporation and I just wanted my baby back and I just wanted to own my practice again, I could go and I can open another one. You know? So like that was like coming four C full circle, saying like, this is not as final as I think.It's just, it's a new chapter in my life. It's a new part. It was like I did it right when I was 39. Right now I'm 41. And, um, I, I'm not sure what the next 10 years are gonna be about, but what's cool is that I feel like I'm finally doing stuff because I want to do it. And, and I know, like me saying that I wanna stay at the practice, I know I wanna stay there, whereas I.Three years ago. It's cuz I have to, I mean, I own so much of it. Um, I own just a small percent. I, I could tell I own 15% at this time. Um, I just don't know cuz I know they're always like doing new contracts. They don't like us sharing like, the details of what we sold and what we sold. But, but right now I own 15% at this point.And, um, it's something that I still enjoy doing. And some people would say we, 15%, is it really worth it for you to even show up? I can tell you that I, I had tried to take three, four weeks off because of a hernia surgery, and then I got covid and, and then I had a vacation mixed in there too. right before I got covid and having a whole month off of work.I mean, it's great to get caught up on Netflix. It's great to read a lot of books. At a certain point I was like, dude, this is like test out retirement and I don't like it. I want to go back to work. So this brings this whole different attitude when I'm at the practice. No. Now do I wanna be there five days a week, four days a week?No. I don't even wanna be there that I'm, like, I'm there like two, five and a half hour days a week. That's it. But that's, that's a comfortable level for me just to kind of stay involved, stay in it, uh, talk with my leads, run the practice. Um, see some patients and that's, that's, that's a good level for me. I don't want any more than that, but, a lot easier to step back once you've sold a lot of equity because it's just not as much risk.But way I'm living now. I could have lived it as a hundred percent owner than, you know, I didn't need to sell to do it. I just had to sell to realize it. Michael: what I was gonna ask you. Do you think it's possible for someone to be like, I only wanna do like two clinical days, three clinical days, and.Do whatever I want after other days. Right. Be with family and all that stuff. I mean, that's what I think a lot of people jump into ownership for not to be like, I wanna work forever and do all this. Yeah. It's more like I wanna have an imprint on the community, but at the same time I wanna work less, call my own hours.And it really doesn't always work out that way though. Paul: Well, I, I think you can and you, you need to have leaders at the practice that are running things for you. And I had a leadership team. Long before I sold, like I would say I had 'em like two and a half, three years before I established like an hygiene lead, an assistant lead.I had my office manager, an insurance lead, and essentially, like I said, man, before Covid I'd be like, they do everything. But then one co once Covid happened, I was like, dude, I still do a lot. So after I sold and there wasn't as much incentive to really push production and, grow the practice and even though we're still growing like crazy, then I stepped back and I said, Hey, You guys know how I wanna do things?Can you guys, like, just like when there's interpersonal stuff, can you deal with it with a new department and just come get me if you really, really need me. If, if something happens with the patient, can you guys just take care of it like I would And they're just like, I could totally do this. And then they did.And it was, it was just weird because I went through like this like three month period of. Wow, everything's running so great at the practice. Nobody's complaining. Nobody's saying like, is upset about anything. And then I, I asked my, my assistant lead who's actually, I put her, I turned under my clinical lead now cuz she's kind of like the manager for everyone on the clinical side.She's like, dude, like, man, it just feels so good. Like there's nothing going on. She's like, dude, there's tons of stuff going on. She's like, do you wanna know about 'em? She's like, you said you didn't wanna know. And I said, gosh, if you think I need to know about 'em, she's like, I don't think you do. They're under control.And it was just like this liberating feeling of why. Wow. Like the practice is always gonna have issues. Somebody always has to deal with them, but all of a sudden it didn't have to be me. And I just kinda stepped back and I just trusted them. And I, like I said, I could have did that at a hundred percent owner.It's a lot easier to do when you own 15% because the risk isn't there if the practice crash isn't burns, you know, um, doesn't hurt me that bad, but at the same time, like if I did it as a hundred percent owner and it really caused a lot of issues. Like, I would've found out about it. I would've pivoted, I would've addressed it.It was just, I just think I was too scared to relinquish that control of something that was a hundred percent mine. I was just, I couldn't let go and get out of the way. But once I did, man, that was the game changer. It was just getting out of the way and trusting my people who have been with me for a long time, who I trust, who, who have seen how I lead.And hopefully some of that has rubbed off on them and they do the right thing and. Dude, it's never run so well. I, I, I'm just I'm blown away by how well, uh, of a job they're doing. They're just doing so well. Hmm. Michael: I like that. When, when you said, Hey, man, only come and get me when you really needed me.What is that? Like? What, how do they know what is really needed? Right. Kind of thing. Yeah. Cause it's like you can be, I don't wanna bother Paul with that. I don't wanna bother Paul with that, but in your mind you're like, dang, I want to. That's embezzlement. I'm wanting to know that. Paul: Right. I think that would be, that would be one. Um, I'm trying to think of some recent situation. Like, okay, I'll give you an instance that was pretty recent is we had an assistant that was, uh, just a great person, great with the patients, uh, super cool to be around, but when they ran behind out on schedules, she would kind of lose it and just, just overwhelm and just certain behavioral things would come out in her that were just not appropriate.Um, just anger, you know, anger and frustration. Just couldn't hide it. And, um, my assistant lead, my, my clinical lead sat down with her and she had a conversation about it. Things got better for a little bit. She sat down and had another conversation about her, about it. What, like two, three weeks later when start, things started reverting back, and then she actually like wrote, documented this meeting like, this is what needs to change.This is your understanding that if this doesn't change, then it's, this might be a termination thing. And then when it got to me, it was like, Hey, I'm doing everything I can. this girl is just making my life just, every, I hear her name every two days I hear something about her that she did.Mm-hmm. She's like, I think we really need to start considering talking or letting her go. So then at that point, I had a conversation with her and things got better, like they usually do for about two, three weeks. And then, um, I had another conversation with her and it was, it was, it was hard because, She knew I was having her conversation with her, and she's like, Hey, I know what you're talking about. I know I need to change the stuff. I'm gonna get better. Like, da da, da. She's like, you know what, this person, this, this and this need to change. And I just had to cut her off. I'm like, Hey, I'm so sorry.Today's your last day. We just can't do it anymore. so that was, that was my involvement. I had to let her go. But I mean, other than that, it's like big stuff. Like right now we're dropping Delta. We just, we just sent her a letter to Delta to get out of that network. coming up with some kind of ideas with the front desk.Why is the front desk, why are people upset with who's doing what? How can we balance duties out? So it's all this interpersonal stuff. Like, like I walked up to the desk and, and somebody was rude to me and they responded rude. I don't deal with that no more. You know that they, they can handle that. They handled the scheduling, they handle the offs when people are taken off the duplication days.everything. They're the ones having the one-on-ones, they're the ones giving the raises. Um, I mean, with my permission obviously, and yeah, I'm just, it's just, I, it's high level stuff. Like my high level right now where I'm at, where there's no noise and I'm just saying, Hey, we're working on getting out a network.That's what we're doing. We're getting on networks. We're at capacity. We need to get our networks. What are we doing? How are we gonna organize the front desk to ride this experience? How are we gonna train these people on the verbiages that they have to use to be an auto network dentist? How are we gonna talk to patients about this?Let's organize what we're gonna put on a mailer. So I'm just doing like, stuff like that, but it is just so nice to get outta that noise of the interpersonal stuff, man. Cuz we got 43 employees and always something, and I just, sometimes I'm like, why can't people just be cool?Just be cool. Please. Just why can't you just be cool? And they're, it's just, it's not possible. You know, like there's always something going on. People are, um, everyone's got their emotional stuff and their own psychology, and people have expectations that don't get met by other people, and they're disappointed and, and people can be mean, you know?Yeah, no. So, so sometimes you gotta get involved in that. But, um, yeah, for the most part, I'm not part of that. I'm, I'm doing the high level stuff, which is, it's so much fun, man. I love it. So it's, it's, it's part of the practice that I really do enjoy. Do Michael: you ever review it like when it comes to your, your leads, like hey, we have a monthly review or a monthly, I don't know, meeting or whatever with just the leads and we're like, okay.And then that's when you can kind of say like, Hey, that was a red, or do you give them red flags? Like, this is when, when things should be brought up to me. Right. Anything below that? No. Kind Paul: of things like that. You know, I never had to really do that cuz I think they, there was a part of me that was really like kinda like, just take care of it.I don't wanna know about it. And there was a part of me that was this kinda like miserable boss where. They were almost scared to bring me stuff. So I think when it got to the point where I was like, Hey, just take care of it, they had a pretty good idea of what I didn't want to deal with and I don't, I don't know, ma, maybe I trained the people good.Maybe they're just wonderful people. It's really hard to say. I mean, they're definitely wonderful people, but, um, I haven't had to set too many expectations with, or what I want them to do. I mean, I told 'em what I want to do, but it's just been like little things here and there like. Correction. Like, Hey, I want you to take care of this.You know, I want you to, I, I, this is what I want to happen. I don't care how you do it. Just what do you think? Can you run with it? They're like, yeah, I'll run with it. And, and even like the people that aren't my leads, like my one, one of my assistants was like, I think we should get the coffee bar back.Cause we took it away during Covid. I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, I'll get a Keurig, I'll find some like cabinet or something like this. And then it's like three weeks later she's like, Hey, where's the coffee bar? I'm like, dude, you know me. I, it's on my to-do list. I'm never gonna get to it. Do you wanna run with it?She's like, I'd love to. And then one day I just came in and there's a nice piece of furniture, fits the fridge right in it, it's all stocked. It's got the espresso machine. And I'm just like, dude, you killed it. This is awesome. Like, I would've never, I wouldn't have did this, I would've just stuck like a damn keigan, like a stool or something.like that, you know? And like, we're good. There you go, girls. You know? So it's, um, but I think we really sell ourselves short and we don't realize how much our team wants to do if you give them the autonomy to do stuff. And, and I would just beg any listeners to try to say, Hey man, like what if I just.What if I let somebody run with something and what, and what's the worst that can happen? You know, maybe you have an upset customer patient. it's not gonna crash your business. It would just, nothing that happens within one week, one month even that you do for 3, 4, 6 months is gonna crash your business.I mean, to, to crash your business so that it burns completely. You'd have to really screw things up for a long time. You know, you'll have time to pivot and, and adjust and, and sometimes they. can't really think of any really main situations that's happened, but I mean, they're gonna have situations where they kinda screw up and that's cool too.You know, I, I'm totally cool with that. I screwed things up. Um, I handle situations not as gracefully as I would in retrospect sometimes. A lot of times maybe. I think it's just part of that learning experience and growing into becoming a leader, but it's. Man, my leadership skills grew a whole lot when I stepped in a leadership position.So if we want to build up the leadership people, like our, our leadership team and build them up, we gotta get outta the way and let them step in that position. And they gotta get some bumps and bruises too. Yeah, Michael: no, yeah, you're right. I think it's kind of difficult, especially at the beginning stages when you're like fingers on the trigger on everything, right?Like, it's like, this is my baby. Like I need to watch everything. And you only have like one or two. So can I ask you if, if like somebody who had like, I don't know, three, four employees right now At the beginning, right? Yeah. Starting up. and they're like, man, Paul, I want you to train me like you done it and I want you to help me find leaders.Mm-hmm. So I can train them to be leaders just like you. Cuz I'm, I'm assuming like it's best to do that at the very beginning, right? Mm-hmm. Like, this is the set, this is who I wanna find. Who'd you Paul: do that? Well, I, I would say if anyone's that small, I don't think you really need the leaders yet. I think you can like, kind of get outta the way for some people in your team.I don't think it's established leaders yet. And the reason I say that is because all of my leads were never my longest employees. In, in that position. Like my assistant lead was not my longest assistant. my insurance lead was not the longest front desk person. Same thing with my front desk lead.They weren't my longest standing seniority person. So what we did is we got to a point, and this is what I would recommend to people, I probably could have did it earlier than I did it, but we got to a point, maybe like 12, 15 people where started changing policies and how we were doing things, and it just kept coming up where someone's like, I didn't know we were doing it that way.I do. We talked about at the meeting, oh, I didn't make the meeting. Or it was like, oh, I didn't hear that. I didn't realize, oh yeah, I forgot. You know, it's just like we started having all these communication breakdowns and then, and I was always big on I wanna meet one-on-one with every single team member and a certain point, man, it, that takes a long ass time.Mm-hmm. We got like 15 people that's why we established the leadership teams. And what we did is we had everybody do like a, you know, anonymous ballot. So we said, you know, nominate your top three people for front desk lead for assistant lead. And we did like the ranked ballot system. So if like you were the first choice, you got three points.If you were some second choice, you got two points just in case, like somebody was, not everybody's first choice, but they were most, most people's second choice, they would get picked over. And then I took 'em home and I counted 'em. And there was part of me that was like, if they don't pick the people, I pick, I'm just gonna lie about the results and say, this is who it was, because I wanted them to own it.But they actually did. I mean, it was like, it was like unanimous and. The team knows who the leaders are. So I would say you gotta get a little bit, I mean, you can't make a lead lead assistant if you've got two assistants, cuz you got, then you got the lead and the not lead. You know, I would think you gotta get like three, four people in each department before you do it.Now an office manager, I think that's a leadership position you could get right away. And that's somebody who you can trust and who can take care of the payroll stuff and could take care of stuff like knowing what people are making. yeah, that was something that I did pretty early and I would, I'd recommend doing that and.You know, like my office manager role, what she does now is very different than what she did like eight years ago. and I just had somebody ask me recently, like, did you have a job description for office manager? I'm like, no. Like, it just like over time you just keep dumping things like, Hey man, like can you take care of this thing for me every month?Yeah, I could do that. Cool. it just frees up you like, it frees it's a, it's delegation and, and you have to train 'em on it and, um, they'll do as much as you allow 'em to, you know, and I, I think you gotta give the. You gotta do the public blessing with the team. Like, Hey, this person was used to be your peer.Now they're, now they're, you know, they're stepping into a new leadership role. You know, we're all friends here and they're not above you, but they are gonna take over a lot of stuff for me, and I want you to treat them as you would treat me the same respect. but yeah, man, it, it, it's, there's so many people that want their office manager and they, they hire, hey, hiring office manager.And people say, Ooh, I got six years office manager experience. Dude, half these Office of Injuries don't know from shit. Like, they're like, I don't mean swear. nobody's put 'em in a position to really lead and just kind of run with things and, and be a self-starter.just because you know everything about insurance and you can present treatment plans doesn't make you an office manager. So, I would urge anyone who wants to do this to, to really just say, Hey, this is what I want. This kind of, I want you to be this for the office. I want you to be able to handle disagreements between people.When an upset patient calls, I want you to take care of it and just, just make it right without asking me for permission. Like, you don't need my permission. And just go with that. And as time goes, it will evolve that that role will evolve. But man, you're gonna get some really valuable people, people on your team, and they're gonna be valuable.People that won't wanna lead because they love their jobs, they love that autonomy, they love the role they're in. Um, we just gotta, we gotta allow them to have it. Michael: Okay. What policies did you start changing when you started, like miscommunication Paul: and things like that? Oh, I don't remember what it was. It might have been, I, I think the big one was with ortho, is that we just, so we didn't forget to send the stuff out.We started putting the models in a bin on my desk so that I could pull the models out, write up the diagnosis, and pull the stuff up so that I didn't forget that they didn't, it was like a backstop to say, Hey, like if the stuff doesn't go out, Here's, here's our, second parachute.And I think, I think it was something like that. But I mean, just things like, just random stuff like this is our procedures cuz we've always been really big on procedures. I don't have to double check it that everybody has done their part. Mm-hmm. I want to create ways that they just get done.And I can be assured that the previous part was done. Cuz there's so much in the dental office where we're so dependent on the previous step being done correctly. Like, I mean, dude, if the, if the insurance gets verified incorrectly, Then the treatment plan's incorrect, then the payment's incorrect. Then you, you gotta take an E o B and you gotta collect it and you now you gotta balance.Now that's incorrect. Now the patient's pissed cuz you're incorrect. And it all this stuff just trickles down just because that insurance wasn't put incorrectly, you know? Mm-hmm. So, and there's so much like that in a dental office. So we've always been big on creating like things like that and trying to create these secondary, we call 'em backstops, just in case it falls through the cracks, we'll catch it.And sometimes we don't, you know, but that's always a, a product of we dropped the ball. Okay guys, we dropped the ball. What happened? Talk to me about it. Let's not make anyone feel guilty. Let's not criticize each other. Let's just collaborate as a team and come up with a solution so that we can not do this again.I have coaching clients that are always like, dude, like, I can't believe you have problems like this in your practice. Dude, my practice is just like, Everybody else's, it's never gonna be without problems. I don't care how tight your systems are, we are humans and humans make mistakes.Mm-hmm. And we forget things and we have emotions and, and those emotions affect our decisions and our behaviors. And it's a complex world and yeah. There's always gonna be a drop in the ball in somewhere, you know? It just happens. Michael: Yeah. How many days were you practicing before you Paul: sold? So before I sold, I was at three days a week.So I was doing three days a week. it should have been two days a week. And the one day was like my, like, Hey, let's lead, let's talk with my teams. let's train people day. But what was started happening was I was always getting booked on that day. The front desk would book me. Mm-hmm. Because they knew I was gonna be there.Like, Hey, do you mind like just seeing this one patient, you're gonna be here. Right. I just take like 10 minutes. I mean, it, it is, I love, love when the team's like, dude, just, just come do this with me and just take like five minutes. I'm like, dude, got. 20 people that wanna do something with me for five minutes.and you probably get it, you get people call, Hey, can I pick your brain for 10 minutes? It's never 10 minutes, you know, it's always like an hour. So it's like, so, um, I forgot what you, where was he going with this? What did you ask me? My, how many, how you practicing? You said three days?Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I had that one day that it was still like, they would just book me. So they put one patient in there and then they'd see us was seeing a patient, so they put another one. So eventually I just stopped coming in on Monday. I said, Hey, I'm done on Mondays. I'm not doing it. so then it was just two full days a week, which eventually we got to two half days a week.And I think now I'm. More like one and a half days a week. I take off like two or three weeks every month. But I, I'm not really practicing that much. I mean, last year we, we would say a really highly productive dentist, like, man, if you could produce a million with your own hands, I think last year I did like 360,000.It wasn't a lot, but that's all I wanna do. So that's cool with me. And now that I'm like partly paid as an associate with the dsl, Some of my paychecks for every two weeks are pretty laughable. it's like, oh, well you are two weeks and you made a hundred bucks.All right, cool. You know, it's like, cuz, but I'm cool with that cuz I'll take time off and, and I'm not, I'm not a producer anymore. I'm much more valuable to the practice as a leader and a trainer and just, um, reaping the benefits of ownership. Even though I still own, I don't own a hundred percent. I'm still reaping a lot of benefits from owning this large practice.Michael: Yeah. Okay man. So you were practicing three days. Before, now you're at two days a week, right? Like about two, two half days, five hour days. Two, two and a half days. Yeah. why did you sell them? Paul: you know, as you're looking at the dollars, you, there was always this fear of delta for so many, I mean, I have Delta's, 35% of my practice.There was always this fear that my whole business model could change by the stroke of a pen. You know, we were, I 85% p p o, 15% cash. Um, 35% Delta Premier p o. And it was just like looking at the numbers, there's this consolidation happening in the industry. It's like, things are hot. It's like we're the, we're like where the housing market was like last summer, you know, it's like, This is the time to sell if I can sell. So it was just looking at numbers, looking at what I have saved up, looking at what, and I've always been doing like real estate investing, so I've got some passive income on the side coming from there. Oh. And just being like, can I. Float with this? Yeah. I mean, could it be really lucrative?Yeah. I mean, it's been better than ever thought it could be. I mean, one of the great things I know I'm not doing a plug for, for MB two by any means, but one of the great things is they let us to, they let us invest in the company. And that's worked out really, really well. So I've actually made way more by selling than I would've keeping the ownership, if you can believe it.Now is, is, are those returns gonna be here five, 10 years from now? I don't know. This is half because private equity really likes dentistry right now. but I can say there's a lot of ill feelings towards corporate, um, with my corporation. I don't feel that, I don't think any of the members do. And I will tell you, I didn't lose a single team member during the transition.And for all intents and purposes, my team doesn't even know they exist. You know, it's, it's, it's still my practice and I think that's kind of what they're not saying. There's not some crappy ones out there that we should stay away from, but, I'm really happy with the decision that I made with mine.Michael: Yeah. I've been hearing a lot about MB two actually. Like where they, so what, what do they do? Are they just A D S O? Paul: Yeah. I mean, they call themselves A D P O, which is just, I think, just a way to brand themselves different from the D S O nastiness, uh, D P O P standing for partnership. And, um, you know, they just handle some stuff on the backend.They, they handle my insurance collections and that stuff like that. They do the credentialing, they do the hr, they do, um, my marketing. Um, they do pretty much anything I ask them for that they can help me admin, backend wise, talking to the companies and, and getting in increases in the fee schedule, stuff like that.But I mean, for, for the most part, I mean, I have a regional manager, her name's that she's great. And she's just like, gosh, I, I just hadn't been in practice forever. I feel like you never want me to come there. Like, I wanna do something for you. Like, what can I do? And I'm like, mm-hmm. We're good. We're totally good.So they're cool with, like, they trust their partners to run the practices the way they, they want to, cuz they're very selective with who they partner with too. Mm-hmm. Um, and they just let us do what we want. You know, I'm, I'm still running it, it still feels like it's a hundred percent my practice. I, I make all the decisions.If I need help, I reach out. If I don't want help, I don't. And for me, my practice was running pretty well. It was pretty systematized already. Last thing I wanted was a corporation to come in here and tell me, tell us how to do things. My team would've hated me. So, um, I, I found the group that would allow me to continue my autonomy and running the practice the way that I want to and taking care of patients the way I want to.So, I mean, they're there for help, but I mean, for the most part it's, we've just banded together and we get the benefits of being a group. And we get the support that by no means are they the group that if you're like, dude, I can't do this anymore. I just want someone to come in and take over my practice and run it.That's not the group. You know, there's, there's other groups that'll do that. And I think, I think that sounds really good, but you're probably gonna be miserable. You sign up with a group like that, you're not gonna about Michael: that. Yeah. So then you mainly kind of did it for, I mean, how long were you running this on your own Nelson?Paul: Um, right about eight years. Eight years. Michael: Eight years, okay. Do you feel like it was, at one point you were kind of like, I don't want the weight of the world right now on me as of for right now, at least maybe later on, but right now I don't kind of thing. Is that what it Paul: was? It was, yeah. Absolutely, man.It was, it was just a heavy weight. That's the best way I could describe it. It was just always freaking there. And, and there was, and, and I've also done like life coaching and I've, I've always been a big fan of therapy and I've always been working with a therapist on and off for my, my whole maybe the past 15 years of my life.And, um, it was just heavy man and it was just always there. And it was spilling over into other relationships where I was just kind of just grumpy, man. I was just overwhelmed and pissed off. And, It just seemed like my whole entire, as this practice grew from, you know, just me and three other girls to like this 45 person team and other doctors and specialists and stuff, and I just felt like this house of car is just gonna tip.Any moment what is gonna be the, what's gonna be the Goldman Sachs of this practice, you know, like, what is, what's gonna happen? And, um, I felt like that the whole time that I was the a hundred percent owner that it was. And so it's me. It's my thought process, it's my mindset. it's my makeup of my just general relationship with anxiety and how I look at things.But that can make me a very good leader and a very good business owner because I'm striving to try to get something that's gonna make me feel better. But at the same time, it's also like a curse because I never get to really feel comfortable about it. Mm-hmm. So for me, it was I just wanted that comfort.I wanted to feel comfort. And it took, you know, some like, things happened in my life, like read a certain book, like some like aha moments. Um, one of the books was like, die was Zero. I'm not sure if you read with that, but it kind of talked about how we like build this big nest egg so that we can just retire when it's like, dude, we don't know how much time we have.And if you take any money to the grave with you, essentially worked for that for free. That was free work you did, cuz you never got to enjoy the fruits of that labor. So why the hell try to save everything and start trying to enjoy life now? Man, I can go hiking, I can climb mountains, I can do all this stuff.I might not be able to do that when I'm 50. I can play golf, like I can play golf five days a week if I want right now. And um, Monday my back might not allow me to do that. So why am I waiting until like, to build this big thing before I can retire? So I've kind of entered into this almost like mini retirement phase where, I would say like, it's not retirement, but it's, it's, it is freedom.You know? Mm-hmm. It would be like the fire principles, I suppose. so it's like, dude, like that's totally cool. Like, you crazy. You're 39 years old. What the heck are you doing? Like, are you gonna do for the rest of your life? I'm like, I don't know. I'd love to be a fireman.Apparently I'm too old for that. I guess you gotta be like 30 or something. I don't know. I'd like to go do something different, you know? And, uh, I don't know what that's gonna be. And you know what, if it's really dentistry and I just really love it and I wanna own a hundred percent practice, I go do it again.I'll do it faster, I'll do it better. And um, yeah, I'll do it better than I did it last time. You know, I, I'm comfortable with that, that, I can do that. And then as a fail safe, I can always go back to just for doing dentistry five days a week as an associate. If I like, I mean, I can do whatever. How can I want?so, but, but I've got that comfort now and, and I was always seeking that, which is I think is part of the motivation behind me reaching all these success points. Cuz I was trying to find something, man, once I get that, it's gonna feel good, it's gonna feel different. It never did. I had everything I needed the whole time.It just had to get to the end to kind of realize that. Yeah. Michael: Do you think maybe you kind of, like you were thinking you were reaching something, but really you were kind of running away from something? Hmm. You know what I mean? Like maybe something in the past where you're like, I, I never want to feel that feeling again.I never wanna get to that situation again. And you just kept running and running and running. Maybe Paul: I, I think for me, I was running away from just a general sense of anxiety and for me to stay busy at work, felt good. You know, and, and people like, I like to say, man, I grinded these years, man. I grinded so hard.It wasn't a grind. I mean, it was hard, but it was like, I was drawn to it. I liked doing it. I didn't like sitting, I hate sitting. to the detriment of my family, it was hard just to sit and just be, it was always like, man, I should get some more stuff done. What do I got to do? Like, what do I gotta do this week?I should get it done so I, so I can relax. And then what would happen is I would get all the stuff done and I wouldn't relax. I'd be thinking about, man, what else can I do? And, um, Just got myself really overbooked with, I mean, with the podcast, with the writing and, uh, the practice and the real estate and, and doing like separate, like just teaching videos, coaching, consulting and stuff.I mean, I was just overbooked it was like I just wasn't comfortable sitting and through therapy through my life coach. My life coach really made a really big difference. And she even said like, I took my coaching clients. I cut 'em down from 15 to five. And she said, what do you think about making a commitment for the next six months that you won't take on any projects?I said, sure, let's, let's do it. So we committed to it, but damn, it was hard. cuz I started having all this time that I wasn't used to. I'm like, what do I do with this time? I'm like, I should start another project. Maybe I'll write another book. Maybe I'll do this. And I'm like, no, no more projects until six months from now.And through that process, it's almost like I discovered this part of myself that I was kind of. Not comfortable with was just doing nothing. Just watching tv, just like sitting, putting my daughter to bed and, and laying in bed with her for like 45 minutes to an hour and just talking to her about her day.Whereas I would be like, okay, I gotta get these kids to bed. I got stuff to do. committing to a one, one or two date nights with my wife every week, like, as like a priority. Like, it's not like we can, if we can find time and, and not to say that my relationships with my family was bad before, but.Man, it, it's night and day to how it is now, but I had to, it was uncomfortable at first to sit and just be idle because it felt, that's what it felt like to me. It felt like idleness and I didn't like that. But then I had to start realizing then, and then you, connect and you're like, man, I really like this.This is okay. Like I don't have to be running and. in rat racing my whole entire life, what the hell is it worth? And just looking at what are we doing this for? Like this, these deep like spiritual, like conscious, like, the spirituality of like, what are we here for? What are, what are, what is our purpose?What are we here to do? And so it was just everything kind of happened in a succession and I think it happened for a reason. I wish I could have skipped a lot of parts of it. But I don't think I would've came out to where I'm at if I did skip those parts. So it's like if I could change things, I would've done 'em differently, but I wouldn't know what I know if I hadn't done things the way I did 'em.Michael: Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, that's true. Like, I remember I used to feel bad all the time about like relaxing, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then you go on social media and people are like, I'm hustling, I'm grinding, and all these things. Yeah. And I, I feel like whenever you're, not doing nothing, like when you're doing nothing kind of thing, That's when a lot of creativity can spark.But we live in a day and age where we call that boredom. Yeah. And so we're like, oh, he's just bored. But we gotta be good with that. We gotta be good with feeling like we're not doing nothing for, you know what I mean? Like being in the moment kind of thing. Absolutely. Um, or else for ne we not, you can tell the world's not creative as much as it used to be.Right. We're just like regurgitating stuff from the past and the past and the past and cuz we can't. We feel guilty for relaxing, I guess, Paul: huh? Well, I'll, I'll tell you something I do, and this is gonna sound like some like major, like old man stuff for people, but like, I got this recliner in my bedroom and, and people always come in my bedroom and they say, why is this recliner not based on the tv?Because you can't see, you can't see the TV from the recliner. And it, it, it was like originally bought as like, I wanna read in this chair. But you know, a lot of times, like, dude, I just sit in that chair and it's right by a window. Open the window, listen to birds. And I just sit, man. And sometimes I fall asleep and sometimes I don't.And it's just nice just to, it's relaxing, but it's, it's not me relaxing watching something being distracted. It's me just sitting with my thoughts, just focusing on my breath, and just chilling out. And for me before that would be like, dude, Do something. Look at all this time, you're wasting doing nothing.That's not a waste of time. That is for me. And that's what recharges me and makes me feel good. And I, I never realized it before. Mm-hmm. Michael: I like that man. So then when did the second book come out? Like was that out of, uh, Paul: After six months or so, you, you'll, you'll, this is all tied together now, where this book came from.This, I wrote this during Covid. So this was me being home with nothing to do 24 hours a day and being like, I got all this time. Let's write another book. And you know what, what I realized my first book was kind of where I was at the time that I wrote it. And, and the books are, they're always written about two years before they come out.So, the first book was about running an amazing practice. This book was about how I stepped out of the chair. And what I noticed in my income as well, the growth, growth of the practice, when I started just like leading and training and like realizing that I'm more valuable as a trainer than I am as a producer.Cuz there was a certain point where I looked at my practice and I said, okay, like if I treat myself as an associate and I pay myself 30% of my production, how much did I take home last year? That was because I got paid 30% of my production and it was like 15%. So the other 85% of my take home income was because I was an owner.But then I was spending 90% of my time doing production activities and maybe 10% doing ownership a activities. So as much as my patients love me and they wanna see me, and the Hi Jess, love working with me and everyone wants to work with Dr. Etch, I was way more valuable spreading my uh, Training and, and what I knew and helping other people grow at the practice I was monetarily and for, for them too, like, I mean, just being present and working with people.Um, I was more valuable doing that. It was much more, uh, financially rewarding and it was me producing dentistry. And that kind of made me realize, man, I'm just, I just stopped doing fillings, eventually stopped doing crowns. stop doing endo and, and now all I do is I do banded bracket on kids in Invisalign.You know, that's pretty much my whole five and a half hour day. And then my other five hour day is just me doing like veneers and placing an implant or two. But, I think next year I only have maybe eight of those days that I booked for 2024. And so it's, I'm sorry, 2023. I think I only have eight of those days that I'm doing that.And the team might wrote me into doing some more, but I kind of don't want to, I just wanna, I love doing ortho. Yeah. I's, uh, the other part's starting to wear on me? ortho is predictable and everything else in dentistry to me is it's, it's unpredictable. I mean, to some extent, and I just think I don't like that level of predictability or of unpredictability.I don't have that level of unpredictability with my team, you know, with my team. So it's doing what I enjoy doing, and it's what the practice needs. Every practice needs a person. I mean, if you could focus full time on running your practice, Man, what would your practice do? So that, that's the purpose of the book, is like, how do we get ourselves outta the chair?And for me it's a lot of leadership principles such as like you owning everything like your locus of control, I call it. Um, balancing your, your regular workload with what I call celebratory work with. Just like this is the stuff, this is the investments in time, this is you training someone else to do something.This is your delegation. just making sure that you've got a compass that's, that's guiding you, that every decision, little decision you make is taking you there. there's a lot of mindset stuff that I think is more important than the actual mechanics. The second half of the book talks about the mechanics and what I think are the best systems, the best things for treatment plan, presentation, what things we can train our team on to make our practices better. But I think ultimately that beginning part of the book, that first half is what's really important. That's the leadership. That's communication. How do we deal with team? What kind of attitude do we approach?Conflict? What kind of attitude do we approach growth and, and collaboration? And, and that's kind of all in there because I think that's something I've learned. Maybe I had an inclination. I was kind of lucky that this came easy to me. But, um, That's what I think has made the biggest difference in my practice.It's not the what, it's the how we've done it and, and, and the meaning behind it rather than the actual, this is what we did. If that makes sense. Michael: Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Uh uh, uh, instructions are always better, right? Like, give me the meat and potatoes of everything. Not so much like the, nobody wants to fluff, right?Mm-hmm. Uh, of anything. But, um, I think that's really interesting when it comes to the marketing side of your practice. Mm-hmm. And, um, Your systems? How did that come along? Paul: For marketing specifically, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So for marketing, we used to try a lot of modalities. We would try like, I mean we tried like the ads, the sponsorships and stuff like that, and we still do some team sponsorships, but I would say we don't do mailers anymore.It's kind of just come into what I think is the most important is just seo your digital image, like your DI digital reputation. And making sure that when people are searching you, that uh, you show up and that you have a nice website and, uh, some nice media and pictures and, and videos on there to back it up.And then it's like, I mean, marketing, we're trying to generate a phone call. We've gotta follow through by having nice patient experience on that end. I don't think the majority of our patients come from either the internet or existing patients. Typically right now are seeing about 180 new patients a month.We've seen when we came six months after Covid, when we had a ton of availability, we saw like 230, which was a huge indicator to me that, man, we could really blow these doors open if we could find some more hygienists. But, yeah, I haven't cracked that. Not yet. I haven't figured that one out yet. I don't know where they all went.They all went, moved some island or something. Yeah. And uh, I think the biggest thing is, is for us is digital. I mean, we pay per click, um, just Facebook stuff and, you know, and I, I tell my coaching clients all the time, You'd be blown away how many new patients you could see if one, you stayed open late or two when you saw a new patient.You tried to get the rest of the family to book if when they came in there for visit. And I can't tell you how many coaching classes don't do that. They're just like, man, like we just started getting so many new patients. Cuz we just started asking. And it's not like you're asking like, Hey, you got anybody looking?You know anyone looking for a good dentistry? It's not doing that. It's saying, Hey, is there anyone else in your family you wanna make an appointment for? And then they'll say, oh, my husband, he's, he's busy. I'll have him call. Well, why don't we just make an appointment and he can call if it, when it gets closer, he'll get some reminder texts if he needs to change it.Okay. You know, you just get him on the schedule and not be pushy. I mean, but, um, doesn't cost a sign. Yeah. I mean that's just, that's just normal. That's just having a checkout protocol that your team follows and you just hold them accountable to it. Yeah, you're right. That's Michael: not being pushy. It's just like, it's being easy.Like, hey, let's just get 'em on that, you know what I mean? Like, put him on there. Right now it's no, no, no issue. You know what I m

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Amy MurrayBusiness Name: Dental Practice Management AgencyCheck out Amy's Media:‍Website: https://www.dentalpracticemanagementagency.com/‍‍Other Mentions and Links:University of TampaEaglesoftIndeedDISC AssessmentMarissa NicholsonDental IntelBraving Video - Renee BrownShrekUnreasonable Hospitality - Will Guidara ‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Try not to talk over your patients! Instead, be an active listener to really hear the issues and concerns they have.Resumes only show technical qualifications, so always request a cover letter from applicants to really hone in on values and personalities!Always acknowledge patients when they walk in the door! Even just a smile and a wave can make all the difference.Engaging workshops and motivating projects are essential to an effective team meeting system.Having a third party coach that can see your practice from a bird's eye view is a valuable asset!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Amy, how's it going? Good, how Amy: are Michael: you? I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located Amy: right now? I'm actually in Highlands Ranch, Colorado, so right outside of Denver. Michael: Nice. Okay, wonderful.So if you can tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you are Amy: today? Well, let's see. I've been in dentistry 25 years. Um, how much time do we have? So I've been in dentistry five years and it's pretty exciting. I started off as a dental assistant and then I moved my way over into administrative roles.So I was a treatment plan coordinator, receptionist, financial coordinator. Moved myself up to an office manager, decided at one point in my life I wanted to go back to college and get my bachelors degree and become a dentist, and that didn't work out very well. I actually fell in love with the topic of sociology applied sociology's degree in as soon as I graduated from University of Tampa Dentistry Concierge in Tampa.Absolutely loved it. Um, from there I had an opportunity to move to Colorado and became a technology advisor. So I'd go into dental offices, I would teach about eaglesoft conversions, um, digital CAD cam training. And then from there I started my consulting role, uh, took a little bit of a time, a break and works for a sleep apnea company for devices and integrations into practice.And now I'm back dental coaching and consulting. Okay. Michael: Wow. So you were able to, you did technology training? Amy: I did, Michael: yes. Okay. Wow. So that's interesting. A a lot of this. So then go back to applied sociology. That's what you started falling in love with more. Why? Amy: Oh, well, I took a class in inorganic chemistry, not once, but twice.And so we didn't agree with, I took a class cause I had to in sociology. My PE professor walked in and, uh, he didn't look like a normal professor. And so I, I sat back and I opened myself up to this class. And what I loved about it is that it allowed me to learn more about, race, ethnic background, gender, um, age.And it really breaks it down into how societies work and how they function with one another. And it's so applicable as to what I do today. Okay. Michael: Okay, so then, so what you do today, how does those two mesh together? Amy: How do they correlate? Well, you know, every day as a dental consultant is something new. So in saying that, I have wonderful clients that I work with.They're, they're, they're the best in the business, I feel. And what I love about them is they are female, they're male, they're different age brackets. They come from different backgrounds and they're personal influences. Their professionals, where they went to dental schools, where they did their undergrad.And so having this sociology background, I can help in understanding how they wanna grow their business and also the element of their team member. Team members come from so many different backgrounds. It's like a melting pot. So to be able to really understand them and the ways of communication and how different cultures, genders, ages, blend, that's how you get a beautiful practice.So that's how I see they've kind of correlated. Michael: Mm-hmm. Okay. Gotcha. So this all kind of stems. From the, so how does that apply when you're hiring, I guess a team, you're finding a team member, you're looking for them. We don't, I mean, do we wanna look at their like, oh, okay. Tell me more about your upbringing, or how does that work?Amy: So, you know, it's quite interesting. I love the hiring pro, uh, process that we do with the agency. Uh, we place an ad, it's typically on indeed, When, um, individuals are applying, we do ask for them to place a cover letter, because a resume only shows me where you work and what your job responsibilities are.A cover letter is huge. That's you telling me with your verbiage, who you are, where you excel, what's your background. I, I love a cover letter. That's just wonderful for me. After I received that, I actually called the doctor, or I call the applicant, and the first question I ask them is, tell me a little bit about yourself.Such a really simple question. However, it's a very powerful, whenever I ask that question, I'm not really focusing on the personal, I wanna hear about your business. I wanna hear how you've, you know, grown your career. Where are you at, things of that nature. Then I'll ask for them, what's important for you in a dental practice to be a part of a team?What is important to you? So I capitalize on those things. From there, I actually ask them if I can send them what's called a DISC assessment. And the DISC assessment actually helps me learn what is the best way that they like to communicate. Michael: Okay. So there's like a system to it, a strategy. Yeah, very much so.When it comes to the cover letter to you, what are things you look at where this is a wonderful, like this is should be framed, cover letter or one that's like, this is nothing, this doesn't tell me anything. Amy: Wonderful, wonderful. Uh, question. So in a cover letter, what I wanna look for is a, that you can spell.That's huge. Right? And grammatically, you know, actually how to place those punctuations. Cause think about it, in our industry right now and dentistry, we do a lot of emails, we do a lot of text messages as well. So grammatically, uh, you wanna be on point. Also, you wanna have a beautiful tonality as well. I want something that's really strike me.So what are the words that you're using?What wrong, uh, verbiage and powerful words are you putting in there for me to be like, okay, this person actually has like, much better, much better, has stepped up the game. So that's what I look for. Michael: Okay. Now, so it doesn't, there's no length that you're also looking for like, oh, it has to be like 10. Amy: Oh, no.Now I always say, show me what you have. Show me who you are and why is it that you are wanting to apply for this position? Michael: Okay, that's interesting. So then you, after you decided, we rewind a little bit back to you, you went to apply sociology, you learned, and then you decided to go into some positions where you're, you know, teaching technology a rep and things like that.And then you switched to consulting. Amy: I did. Why I did, I was actually in a training class. I was training a, uh, software and I had this beautiful person named Marissa Nicholson join in on my training. I had no idea who she was. Uh, her client and her, um, team members. She took me aside afterwards and she says, oh my gosh, you had such a plethora of knowledge, not only about the software, you were giving tips and tricks about how to run an administrative role.I said, yes. I said, well, that's what I used to do in my past. And she says, have you ever thought about dental coaching and dental consulting? I was flabbergasted. I said, wow, you think that I'm good enough for that? She says, I think you're amazing. Okay. And so we started working together at that point. And it's been a beautiful friendship and a professional relationship since then.Michael: And so that was the kickstart, the inspiration, the motivation to go into that? Yes. Very interesting. Yeah. Now, when it comes to an administrative role, you said, because that's, I would say that's your forte. Wouldn't that be your area of expertise? Yes. Amy: That, uh, preservation of culture in the practice.Communication. Oh, yes. Michael: Okay, so when it, well, two questions, but the first one, when it comes to an administrative role, break it down for us. What are some things we need to absolutely have to create that system for an administrative role? And then what are some things that are not as important that we feel maybe are highlighted too much in social media or other stuff?Amy: Mm-hmm. That's a good question. Uh, I would say for an administrative role, what's super important is for somebody, To greet patients, answer the phone with a smile, put a smile on your face, you change your physiology. It's amazing the verbiage and the tonality that comes outta your mouth. So I always think that it's somebody who is charismatic, who's very positive, who wants to be there, and who wants to be a team member.They want to learn from there. I would say open communication. I feel as though in our administrative roles right now, we don't have a lot of people that are considered active listeners. We have a lot of people that want to talk over, talk over the patient. The patients are calling you because they need you, and you need to be the active listener.Ask powerful and appropriate questions. Make sure that you're hearing what the patient has to say. Repeat back to the patient what you heard them say to make sure you're capturing it so eloquently, and then take care of what the need is that the patient's asking for. Michael: Gotcha. What powerful and appropriate questions can you like prep us for that normally happen?Amy: Definitely. I always like to, first I thank patients who call, so if it is calling Dr. Speedo's office, you wanna greet them and you wanna say Thank you for choosing Speedo Family Dentistry. This is Amy, I can help you. It's powerful in that introduction because A, it identifies you know who I am. Thank you so much for choosing.If you could choose anybody, and I'm the person that's gonna be able to help you. From there, I like to ask them. Well, typically at that point they tell me what it is that they need. Mm-hmm. So I'm quiet and so it's appropriate for me to ask the next question. I always like to ask, are you a patient of record?And if they say Yes, I've been there before, that's awesome. If they say, no, I've never seen this dentist before. I said, that's great. Welcome to your new dental home. I'm very happy to take care of you. How can I best support you? Or how can I help you? Mm-hmm. And then from there, again, I'm an active listener.I listen to what the patient says and what it is that they need. If they're calling for a traditional profi appointment cleaning appointment, or if they need to get in and have their emergency met, then I'm asking a more key question. What are you feeling? Can you describe to me what location of the mouth is it?So I like to ask all those fun key questions. It's like an onion. You wanna pull back the layers and keep asking and asking until you get exactly what it's. Michael: Nice. Yeah. I feel like sometimes Amy, I remember when I was in the front, sometimes it would be like I'm rushing it, you know what I mean? The phone drinking, somebody just walked in and I'm like, okay, even though we have another front office.And so when it comes to asking questions, it, two things I feel like it made me realize is one. I'm rushing it. And then the second it's like, Hey, how's everything coming along? Is it good? Is it bad? I'm, I'm giving them options to answer instead of being comfortable with the silence. So how can we be better with, comfortable with, you know what I mean?Like asking 'em a question and then shutting up. And then the second thing would be, um, how do we handle not rushing it? Amy: Definitely not rushing am it's, it's hard, right? That's a double-edged sword, especially being in, um, a very busy practice. Uh, as an administrator, you have people walking in, you have people giving you handoffs from the back.Uh, you have other lines that are ringing. I always like to say that when a patient walks in, you should acknowledge them, acknowledge them with your eyes, even if you're on the phone, acknowledge 'em with their hand, um, and smile. So they know you're gonna be with them momentarily. What's most important, especially if there's a new patient on the phone, you never, ever, ever want, stop that conversation.That's why I initially asked in the beginning, are you a patient of record? Are you a new patient? If they're a patient of record and I have all these other things that are happening, I'm very candid with the patient of record and say, you're extremely important to me. Could you please tell me what I can do to help you?And then if it's something that I can call them back, I will gladly take their number and let them know I will call you back in the next five to 10 minutes. You gotta hold it to your word though. Mm-hmm. You gotta call him back five to 10 minutes. If it's a new patient, I'll simply roll through and do what I need to do.Um, I also would hope that I would have strong enough administrators and team members that are cross trained, that if I'm focused on something, they can also help. But I believe that if you just simply smile and acknowledge and let people know, they generally get that queue and know that you'll be with them as quickly as possible.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So it involves also like. Letting the team members know, kind of Right. Maybe would you recommend like having like a, a signal or something when you're feeling like, okay, I have too much going on, and, you know, or, or what do you think? Yeah, Amy: yeah, you could actually, I mean, we use this for hygiene all the time with the agency, which I love.We have, uh, different colored cards. So what that means is we have green, if things are going good, there's, there's no. There's, there's not a lot of time that are on this phone call. We have yellow. Yellow is like, Ooh, this is a little bit tricky. Patient's asking a couple of questions, and then we have Ray, oh my gosh.They have a whole lot of things that they wanna get across to us. So what you can do is you can have those series of cards and as somebody walks up without you mouthing anything, miss what the patient's saying. You can easily slide over a card and, and so they know. Mm-hmm. Now that's a visual cue, and then they can know that if it's yellow or red, hey, I need to take care of this patient.Our administrator is really focused. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. I like that. The card situation. Yeah. I feel like whenever you're stuck in a situation when you're with a team and you're having a hard time, there should be like a signal or something. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yes. Amy: Yeah. There totally should be. There should be.So, yeah. Uh, we help our teams with that, so it's just a fun idea. Michael: Nice. That's wonderful. And so then you also mentioned one of your area of expertise is maintaining the team culture. Mm-hmm. And so first, how do we even. Find the, like I, for example, I'm just gonna give you an example. Like if I go, Amy, I want my culture to be happy.Do we do, how do we go from there? What do we figure Amy: out? So of course I'm gonna ask you what does happy mean to you? Like, give me some more words. That's just a real general, um, description. So I said, give some more words, more specific. Are you looking for team members? Are you wanting to preserve something that people are excited to come to work day?That you're gonna be excited to, um, I don't know, answer the phone every day, things of that nature. Right. So the way that we go about preservation for positive culture in a practice is we actually do what's called observation. With the agency, which I love because this allows us to be able to float from front to back.We watch admin side, we watch our das with our doctors, we watch hygiene, and we do this because there's certain key words that we want to see how the teams are interacting with each other and then also with the patients. So that's huge. not only do we do the observations and we're very candid, we give great feedback, constructive feedback to our team members and to our doctors as well to accelerate that.We also provide monthly team meetings. Which, uh, we, as the business coaches and consultants, we run those. And what I love about them is that we have an agenda. We do fun workshops, we focus on communication. We do disc presentation, so we'll take disc off of everybody and we'll do a fun presentation on that.Um, we'll actually talk about better strategies of how information is given and received by team members as well. Michael: Okay. So then when it comes to the observation part, what are some things you've seen that you can share with us? Like the three most common, this is what happens and this is the solution for why we can stop making that happen when it comes to a problem.Amy: Yeah, so definitely one of the things that we like to observe is the handoff. Those are critical, right? We like to know exactly, uh, that. Hy I'm gonna use hygiene, for example, if that's okay. Mm-hmm. Hygienist is in with the patient, right? It's a very, uh, it's like a dance of a relationship, right? The, the patient is gonna tell the hygienist more than they're gonna tell the doctor sometimes.So what we like to do is we like to have the hygienist, uh, after they do it, the tore of the mouth. That they specifically write down things and they also tell the patient, Hey, you, I'm a little bit concerned. I see some things here, but let's confer with the doctor. When the doctor comes in. It's important, doctor. It's still great for the hygienist to say, you know, uh, Dr. Sido, today we're seeing Mrs. Jones, and what I saw with Mrs. Jones was X, Y, and z. I'm curious about this. Could you please take a look at this and then to go in if there's perio concerns or anything of that nature? there, the doctor's gonna do their dance, but the doctor is listening to the hygienist.That's the beauty of it, right? That the hygienist is actually pointing out areas. And from there, what I love is that the doctor is gonna confer. Yep. You know you are exactly right. I see what you're seeing. Let's go ahead and get this patient scheduled. I'll see you in the next week, two weeks. There's a time and urgency.That's that appointment. So now the patient's, not the patient has heard what they need to have done. Not once, but twice. And then the third time is when they're handed off from the hygienist to the administrator. So the patient is now hearing what they need three times. This is a beautiful dance because us as humans, we don't listen to things.We don't grasp them one time. So by the time we're ready to get appointed, we're now hearing it three times and we know that is an urgency because the doctor has placed that. That really helps in the scheduling of practice. Michael: Mm. It helps finalize it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like to, to get it in there. Interesting. So do you ever feel, Amy, when you're doing the observations like. Team members act or perform kind of thing in front of you, right? And then they go back to like, because I mean, somebody watching, somebody's watching me. So I'm like, I gotta turn it on. And then maybe like somebody else is like Amy, he really doesn't act like that around here.He just, you know what I mean? Does that happen? Amy: Oh, it happens all the time. Happens all the time. Um, a lot of times myself, uh, Marissa and Nicholson and Chris Hamal, the main coaches, uh, we actually don't do a lot of the observations. We have our administrators, we have two administrators, uh, Jamia and Alexa, who actually go in on our behalf because we know how our team members act.So if it's a different set of eyes, they might get a different reaction as well. you know, we're humans, so we go straight into our automatic, it's what we know. And if we know that somebody's watching us, like you said, we can step up our game a little bit and then we kinda fall back. Um, we definitely go in.We try not to let everybody know that we're coming in so we can actually see them in their natural, uh, capabilities and where they land. Some of the times it's inevitable. If they see us, they see us. Uh, but a lot of times what we do like to do is kinda go in on the stealth mode and a different set of eyes.It might get a different return. So Michael: yeah. Okay. That's interesting. So then how can we main, we figured out how we can find the culture. How do we maintain it? Amy: Maintaining. So it's critical to have those monthly team meetings. A lot of offices, the moment you say, oh, let's have a meeting, all of a sudden people are like, no, I don't wanna have a meeting.Cause it's just by PowerPoint or there's people complaining and that's no fun, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, so I always like to say team meetings need to be motivated. Be transparent with your team about your numbers. We use a great digital software platform, Intel, and I love dental Intel. It only works with certain softwares, however, it will take within that software and put it in a dashboard, um, metric.so doctors are really transparent with their teams and you're gonna get the best outta your teams. Now, they're also held accountable for daily goals. For DR. And hygiene as well. from there I always like to do what I like to call personal and professional check-in, so gimme one one of each and everybody around the room does that.And I love it because a lot of times our teams don't have time to get to know each other, so everybody shares something great that's happened with them personally and professionally. Very clear about numbers. And then I'll actually bring in a workshop. Workshops are huge. You can go on YouTube and actually Google different type of inspirational videos.Brown is one of our. And you can pull from what she's saying and you can actually make that into a really small workshop. Ask your team powerful questions, have them work together and that is beautiful. Cause at the end of the day, you're preserving that culture cuz you're teaching everybody how to properly communicate.Michael: Yeah. What have been some amazing workshops that you've done, Amy? Well, I Amy: love disc. Disc is my favorite. When we make it really fun, we actually use the movie Shrek as a part of our disc presentation. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, you have the dominant person, you have the other person who's very interactive. You have the one that needs and the one that needs consistency. And, uh, so this has to be my absolute favorite. Second would be braving, uh, by Brene Brown. Mm-hmm. It's actually teaching everybody how to trust a team member and how a person needs to be what's called a vault. And when you tell somebody something who is a bolt, you know that they are gonna take whatever you say, to their grave.And so I love that one as well. And it's really learning how to trust one another, which a lot of times is a work in progress. Huh? Michael: Can you give us some steps right now on how we can tell our team, like you, you need to trust, you need to trust Suzy Bell, like, you know what I mean? How can we, yeah. What are some things we can do?Amy: Well, definitely I always say if you have an upset with somebody, you have to go directly to that person, right? And you have to clear the air. A lot of times it's very difficult to do. We do teach people how to do that so they feel comfortable in their own skin and to be able to go to that person. We also like to talk about how in breathing that it's super important to know that. When you set that positive culture in the practice and you know that I can go and I can talk to this person, and this person is not going to, uh, take what I say, take it outta context, share it with other people, um, we teach them that you'll have a beautiful friendship and professionalism for the rest of your life.Right, and it's really, it's learning to like and love each other. And that disc plays an important role because it's how, how can I read that person? Are they very direct? Are they mostly like a high, they're not. Listen, So it's really understanding the disc part and establishing those parameters and boundaries, um, for giving in, receiving information, and the, the three all work together, so Beautiful.Michael: Nice. When you do these workshops and assessments, or even before that, what do you do when you notice there's a team member who you're like, you don't fit, man. Like, you just don't, you're. You're negative or something. Like what? What happens with that? Amy: Ooh. Those are what I like to call crucial conversations.Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Uh, you even see it outside of the team meeting, you can pretty much pick it up pretty quickly, right. Um, what I like to do, always like to believe in the beauty of everyone. I will ask the doctor if it's okay for me to take that team member aside and really one-on-one. I'll ask the team member, are you doing okay?That's the first thing I'll ask them. If they say, yes, I'm doing fine. Say, okay, well I've noticed that there's a little bit of, um, you're not being your best self. And what I mean by that is I see so much beauty in you. How Courtney does that sound right? Me? Just saying that I see the beauty in you. It's true though.Cause look, I just said it to you and you smiled and you left. Mm-hmm. Right? Made you feel good. I see the beauty in you and I can see that you are so much more than what you're giving right now. So how can I get the very best out of you? And usually once I do that, even if you are the highest in their D category of dominant.I can get a pretty good response back and I kinda figure out what's going on with them. Michael: Gotcha. Also, you normally see that in the dominance. Like people who are like I, you know what Do you think it's that? Because it's like somebody else is coming into here and I run it kind of thing? Or, or no? Amy: Oh yeah.Oh yeah. Some of the highs, I love them. Each category has a special place in my heart, but the highs, they're gonna tell you what they need and what they want and everything else just doesn't really matter to them. It's okay. They have a special place in this world. to teach them to be more open and better communicators.That's where I kind of land when I ask them those questions. Michael: Gotcha. I have a question for you then, because I guess what do you do when, what is the best way, if you can tell, like the listeners, this will help facilitate the coach coaching consultant team or coaching consultant practice. So much easier if you do these steps.If you don't, you're gonna put the blame on me, or you're gonna put the blame on somebody else. You're just not gonna see the results you want. What would help Amy: with that? Well, I would say definitely, uh, look at a dental coach, right? They are, I know a lot of doctors are like, gosh, you know, I have, I have so many overhead expenses, and, and it can be costly.I understand that. Hiring a dental coach is taking a third party person who is actually looking for the betterment of you for the betterment of your practice and keeping your team sustainable. And that's huge. I feel as though, uh, bringing somebody on board who has the outside perspective that can look in and be very honest with you.I am honest with all of my clients. Good, better, indifferent at the beginning of our relationship. I tell them at times, you may not like what I'm gonna say, and I understand that I am looking out for the betterment for you guys to be successful. I always tell my my wonderful clients as well, I, I don't plan on being with you forever and ever.Amen. I'm gonna teach you the tools and I want you to fly, and if you need me to come back to redirect, I'm gonna be there. but we are together for a period of time. So a lot of times doctors think, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get this consultant. They're gonna be with me forever. And sustainability and financial agreements, um, our agency doesn't operate like that.Again, we will, uh, teach you how to fish and then we want you to go up and be completely successful and we'll always be your biggest cheerleaders. Michael: Okay. So it's mainly like the communication that you want. All the time. Right to, yeah. Let them know like, hey, yeah. Be, because I remember we, we would have a lot of coaches and consultants, like even with Somewhere, I'm like, where do you come from?Like, you know what I mean? Like, I've never heard of some of these before. Like I'm just like, where are you? Right? And so I never knew what they did in the sense of, oh, now we're just taking Medicaid or Medicare. You know what I mean? Now we're just doing something else. And I would see them kind of run through the door.And I remember our office manager sometimes or other people, they'd be like, yeah, you know what, they don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. They're not gonna come in here and fix it. And I'm like, maybe if we were more flexible, it would've worked. Or maybe if they knew what they were, you know what I mean?Kinda Amy: thing. Yes, yes. It's very, very true. It's very, very true. I always love to give team members, I always like to let them know I am joining to help you grow. A lot of times when team members hear the word consultant or business coach, they automatically think that they're not gonna have a job.And that's scary. So of course their defenses are already up. So when Chris, Marissa, or myself go into a practice, we always introduce us who we are. I give them my background. I always say to administrators, I used to do what you did. I know how important your role is. Mm-hmm. And I'm here to help you.You had three things. Three things you love in this practice, tell me. And then they'll tell me. I said, okay, if you had three things that you wanna make better in this practice, what are they? And I asked every single team member that question, and let me tell you, nine times outta 10, they're all saying the same thing.They might say it differently, there's a common thread. And that's when I typically take that common thread back to the doctor and I say, okay, so this is what I'm hearing. This is what I'm seeing. But I like to let the team members know that I'm there for them. I want them to grow and for them to be successful.Michael: Mm. Okay. I like that. Three common things, you know what I mean? Yeah. Especially if they're all like, what's this one person? Then, you know, like, ok, then we gotta get rid of that one person. Whatever. Interesting. I'm kinda ok. Yeah. Yeah. So these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry, working every day in the mouth, right?Yeah. What would you like to see more from a dentist? Amy: Oh goodness. What I would love to see more from a dentist is, Look at your team members, be appreciative of your team members, and know that they are there every day, day in and day out to make you better and to support you. I think a lot of times as dentists, we overlook that.They are so worried about, um, overhead, right? Getting more new patients. How do I market myself better? There's so many things that they're thinking of, and a lot of times we really don't look inside and we really don't appreciate the team that is supporting us and helping us grow. So what I mean by that is I always tell my doctors once a quarter, do an activity with your team.Show them how much you appreciate them. My goodness. Um, order, coffee, things of that nature. It's the small things that really mean a lot. one workshop that we do, it's really great, we talk about value, um, morals and values, and I learn while the doctors there, what their team member values. And some of the times the doctors sit back and they're like, I never knew that that's what they needed.That's what them going in the day. So I, I feel as though that type is, um, really gonna make it better for, for the, for the dentist all the way around. Michael: Mm. Okay. I like that. Like doing activities with them, letting them know you appreciate them. Yeah. Um, understanding that it is true. You need them to, you know what I mean?You need Amy: them. Yeah. You need them. Michael: They're important. Okay. All right. So next question is right now. What do you dislike or hate about dentistry? Amy: Oh, goodness. That's a tough question. I would have to say, uh, what I dislike with dentistry right now is, um, everybody is looking for new patients, right? The, the dentist believe that more new patients I have is the bigger and better that I'm gonna grow, and they miss that.They miss what's most important. What's most important is the current patients that you're serving. So what do I mean by that? Well, when your patients walk, the first question that your administrator needs to ask is, how is your visit today? That's such an important question because that one question, if they had a great visit and the patient responds, oh, it was awesome.It was great. That is so wonderful. We are accepting new patients. Do you know of anybody who's looking for a new dental home? And then again, active listeners don't say anything. Mm-hmm. Don't say anything. And if they say, well, you know, I don't know. Here's some of our cards. We love patients just like you.So if you do, please send them our way. What a beautiful compliment you just gave somebody. Right? And positivity. They're gonna go and they're probably gonna tell other people. And by organic growth, we're getting new patients. And I think that if dentists would take a moment and take a step back and really listen to what I have to say in regards to that, you would be amazed what you would get.Mm, Michael: doing that with every single patient, right? Every single patient. Amy: And it flows, it really does flow. Uh, at first when you tell administrators to do this, they look at you and they say, I don't have enough. That's what they say. I don't enough time. You actually do have enough time. It really just rolls off so easily because you know Mrs.Jones, you know she's amazing and you want more people like her. So give her that beautiful compliment and let her know you guys are looking for new patients and when you want people just like her. Mm-hmm. Michael: Beautiful. I like that. I like that a lot. Okay, so focus on the internal marketing kind of thing.Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. And then right now, what do you absolutely love about dentistry? Amy: What I love about dentistry is, um, all the beautiful team members that I get to work with and the wonderful clients that I have. It's super important. With our agency, we focus on the quality of our clients, not the quantity.The quantity doesn't define us. What definitely defines us as the quality. I love the fact that, um, my clients know they can call me whatever time, day or night, and I'm gonna be there for them even on the weekend. I cherish them. I cherish our relationship. I love the fact that they were like a, they opened their kimona for me to come into their practice and to help them succeed.So, being an open dentist, it really does open you up to so many capabilities and possibilities. It's pretty awesome. That's what I really love about dentistry now. Nice. How Michael: does, let me ask you side note, how does that affect your, I guess, like personal life? If they're always like, you can call me no matter what, whenever.All the time. Yeah. What does that look like? Amy: Oh, it's great. It really is. Uh, a lot of times they don't always take me up on that. However, if it's a nine one emergency, they know that I'm gonna be there. You know, Chris, Marissa, myself, we do like to spend time with our families and outta town. The beauty about our working relationship is that we will cover for one another as well.Mm-hmm. So we communicate if somebody's gonna be non-available, that person, the other coach will be responsible to take those calls. So I try to kinda balance it the best as possible. But again, it comes down to the quality of my clients and not the quantity. I, I love them all dearly and I wanna take the very best care of them.So whatever it takes. Michael: Yeah, that's nice. That's wonderful. And then to you thinking of the general population, what needs to change for people to be more open to dentistry? Amy: Well, you know, unfortunately we live in a populace where we have a lot of patients who are very fearful of the dentist. And so they won't go, and I'd like to think that, you know, unfortunately, fortunately, COVID actually brought a lot of attention to this because it's the oral cavity, right?Oral cavity is the gateway to your systemic health. And so what I'm really, really hoping is, is that people will take their oral health very seriously. So where does that come from? It actually comes from, um, you know, children being in school and they have a hygienist.embrace your child to take them. Find a great dentist that suits you. as a patient, when you call a dental office, ask specific questions. Ask how long have they been in dentistry? What do they special? Do they do history? Uh, let let the administrator know. If you're high fear, you know, gosh, I just don't like coming to the dentist.Right? And find that right practice. That's going to love you and support you and help you in your dental journey. Okay. Michael: I like that a lot. And then, what's one of the best advice you've ever received that you can share with our listeners? Oh, Amy: in general. In general? Mm-hmm. In general, um, you know, One of our, uh, Chris Oval, this one is the best for me.I've gotten better. I've gotten better. I was not the person who was always on time, right? Mm-hmm. And I love philosophy. If you're on time, you're late, so you need to be early. And that's considered on time. I think that that was actually the best piece of advice she has ever given to me and has shown me.Because for me, when you're early to something, it shows that person that you're meeting, Hey, I'm here undivided attention. I'm waiting for you. I'm excited to meet you. So I always like to live with that, that theory of if I'm early, I'm one time. Yeah. And I'm winning. And it shows that person that they're very important.Nice. Michael: Wonderful. Awesome. Amy, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Amy: Oh, yes, you can. You can go to www.dentalpracticemanagementagency.com and you will find myself, Marissa Nicholson and Chris Hamal. Awesome. Michael: So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below.And Amy, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure, and we'll hear from you soon. Amy: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Have you been feeling scared of the new AI technology and it's potential to take jobs away from professionals? Well, this week I'm diving in with Dr. Kathryn Alderman on the reasons we should embrace this technology! It is not here to take our jobs, it is here to boost productivity and professionalism in your practice. Dr. Alderman goes through multiple applications she has used ChatGPT for in ONE day! Just scratching the surface, Katheryn has used ChatGPT to help her craft job descriptions, ads, contracts, claim denial appeals, training materials, emails, and more. In a world where staffing is increasingly tough, why not have the equivalent of an MBA/PHD graduate on your side for free!Catch our conversation on ChatGPT here, and learn how Katheryn has been best utilizing this tool!‍You can reach out to Dr. Kathryn Alderman here:Email: progressivedentalmentor@gmail.comWebsite: https://progressivedentalmentor.com/‍Other Mentions and Links:ChatGPT‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Catherine. So talk to us about ai, artificial intelligence and chat, G P T. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help our workflow efficiency or front office tasks within the practice? Kathryn: Michael, thank you so much for inviting me today.I always love talking to you, and we have to remember that AI technology is here to maximize and supercharge our ability. So AI technology is not here to take, uh, our jobs away. Or to take, uh, jobs away from our teams. But he, the AI technology is here to simplify our workflow and maximize what we can do during the day.So in a dental office, traditionally, we all short for help and it's actually really expensive to get a quality candidates and, um, Due to labor shortage, many of the dental offices don't have enough people that, um, uh, can handle the responsibilities. So it's very important to find ways that we can use to help us to run an effective, profitable, successful dental office without an extra expense.And the shot G P T allows us to do that. That's actually free, fast. And absolutely fabulous. And it's becoming so fast that when I put a prompt in and when I ask for, uh, help with the project, it gives me the answer so fast. My eyes don't move fast enough to follow the answer. That's how fast and powerful the technology is becoming.You ask me what areas can we help with? I will run through all the areas that I have used it today for just today. In one day I wrote a content for a press release. I wrote a job description for Directable clinical operation. Not only I wrote a job description, but I also wrote, the job ad and a contract.That would go along with the job. So charge G D P gave me all the information in less than two minutes total time, describing the job, describing the job responsibilities, and that even gave me program, how to implement with job in my group. So that was one of those things. Another thing that I did is work with dental insurances on maximizing.our reimbursement fees. Jack, g d p helped me to write letters to approach dental insurances and, um, negotiate the fees. That has also helped me to write appeals and to write an appeal for denied crowns, all denied crown viewed up. That's very time consuming. We don't have time, we don't have people to do that.Not only wrote was, um, samples of, uh, appeals. It gave me multiple different versions so it doesn't sound the same and an amazing part that I couldn't write such a great appeals. I couldn't, it did a fabulous job of writing was appeals and then I said, write me clinical note to premium denials. And, uh, it did give me a clinical note So my dentist give more information to ENT was denials. That was just in one day. Actually there wasn't a first part of my day. The second part of a day I worked with my marketing team and, um, Marketing is becoming very competitive. Marketing is all about content creation. And uh, while we don't want have a content created by charging, just, we can't just copy and paste it mm-hmm.And make a blog or a post of that, but we can definitely use its help. To create a content that is really interesting and we can also take this content and we can, um, create, uh, social posts. We can create a description for YouTube videos. create videos, video content. So, so when it comes to marketing and most, most of our dental teams don't do marketing.That's something we hire out. But if the team does some marketing, for example, social posts, or maybe there is a person on the team that does, um, that does do some blog posts, uh, Chad, g p t becomes a great tool in, um, helping with the marketing. Another thing that I have been using a lot is to train my new people and onboard new people.For example, just in the last two weeks, uh, we have hired four new people, so chat, G P T helped me to create materials. To train new people and actually create a documents to explain what is a gum disease, what is the upscale procedures in the dentistry, or how to submit claims correctly to dental insurance.So tragedy p creates training materials very quickly in other ways that dental teams can use. That Somebody on a dental team doesn't know the answer. All they don't know, uh, they don't understand the procedure or the consequences of doing it all. They, they can have any question about, you know, scheduling or working with dental insurances.So a dental code. I use chat G D P a lot to pull up his information quickly. And the information is given to you so quickly. You don't have to Google anymore, you don't have to go through multiple websites or multiple answers that is provided by Google. You can simply use chat. G p P, so, This is just again, the beginning of what we. Doing with the AI technology and it's really, again, the goal destroying power us to allow us to be more effective, to allow us to maximize our ability and to really help us if we have a full team or maybe we don't have enough people on our team or.If we have people, but maybe we don't have the, all the expertise, chat, g d p can help us with all of the things that I mentioned and more, but I just described what I did on one day today, in one Michael: day. That's amazing. Yeah. So that's, it's, you utilize it all the time now, basically. Kathryn: I don't think it is a day or two hours on my day when I don't use it.And, and it's not just in a dental office. It can be for, it can be for personal life, it can be looking up health. It can be translated for my parents that speak Russian, don't speak English. Uh, for example, my mom may ask me, uh, why do I need to take this medication? Uh, And I will give a prompt to cha g d P.Then I will say, translated to Russian. It translates beautifully. I don't even speak Russian that well anymore. so, it's, it's literally a miracle. I feel that cha g p t is like a Christmas every day. It's like, It's, it's, it's just, I got this BU employee that is free, fast, efficient, intelligent, and I, it's unbelievable.It's, I compare to like, um, an MBA student, somebody that has completed MBA and PhD, and uh, and they're just here to support me. They're here to help me. So I definitely, um, think it's a great tool. It's a great tool to help and really it's almost capabilities are unlimited and all this is only the beginning.Michael: what have you seen where, okay, now this is the biggest jump we've seen with maybe marketing, maybe with the dental team, maybe with what is the biggest, where you see the needle moving?Kathryn: Well, definitely content writing for now. It's a content writing, and when we say content writing, you really, marketing becomes extremely important. But when we are talking about content writing, again, it's not just write a blogs or to optimize your website. Content writing is more than that.Content writing is right. Job descriptions, job ads or training materials to describe systems operations for your training material So it's all about content writing at this point. Just using a chat g uh, charge G p T. And soon obviously there will be more, but right now, mostly it is a content writing.But when we think about content writing, it's not just oh. I need to write a blog or I need to write a post. Let's say you are a dentist. You are busy. You don't have time to write an office manual. You don't have time to write a system, um, and create a blueprint for your office. DP can help you. You can literally log in and you can, you can ask for help.To write a system or a blueprint for how to scale patients in your office. And again, it's not gonna be perfect and it's not gonna be ideal, but it's give you a lot of, um, a lot of good information that you can take and, um, make it your oven. So content writing is the best and a content writing. It's not just for blogs on your website.It's again for. creating new training manuals, training new people, you know, creating, uh, creating materials, uh, how to handle a conflict in your office or further how to create appeals. Write an appeals to dental insurances. And, uh, you can even create, you can even use charge G P T on how to have a.How to respond to an negative Google review or how to write an email, uh, how to write an email to the patient. This is actually becomes really powerful people, most people are not great on writing emails, so I am one of those people as well. I hate writing emails. I hate hate emails, but what I do, I'll write my.You know, copy of an email and then I will put it right through chat, uh, G P T and I will say rewrite. And it just gives me this beautiful professional copy of an email so our teams can do that as well. So all of us look more professional and, um, better spoken. So, so it's, it is a content writing, but when we talk about content writing, it's involves everything that isn't written form.In a dental office, and there's so many things that we do need to put, um, that we need to still, um, create a content for. Does that Michael: make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Especially, it's not just like a blog or an article, right? It's more like, like you said, like give me a list of, of most.Possible complaints for a claim if I filed this right. Then it gives you like a list and it says, write a specific email or blog, uh, debating that claim, right? Or for if I'm a dentist, then I'll write that down and then continue, uh, so it, I can see it. Yeah, it's definitely, definitely super useful for a lot of things like that.Kathryn: My best advice for somebody is not to be afraid. My best advice is really to just start using it and not to be intimidated by that because everybody says it's all about prompts and it's all about how you ask, um, uh, question. Yes, it's right, but just. My best advice, start with a basic question. Really explain what you are trying to get and then start asking questions to add to that.So really, and you will start experiencing the power of it, you will start experiencing the power of, AI technology and you'll, you, you'll understand how to use it, but my best advice. To log in, start using it, and just start being comfortable with that because it is, the future is here. Mm-hmm. The future is here.The AI technology is gonna become part of our everyday lives and, uh, the faster we comfortable with that. We will be more comfortable to transition in a new world where we use an ai, AI technology in, in our businesses every single day. Michael: Awesome. Awesome. So besides that, any other final pieces of words or advice that you want to give to our listeners?Kathryn: Start using it and don't be afraid because I hate technology is here. So just start using it. There is really nothing secretive about it. It's really meant to be used by everybody, not just by marketers. It's like a new Google, but better. Mm-hmm. And uh, and just to start using it and You can think of anything.You can think of anything through, okay, I need to write a clinical note for skeleton root planning according to new pre grading. And you just put it in and see the magic happen because Chad, g p t will give you a clinical note based on your new grading system that, um, academy of Paleontology has.That's how advanced it is. So you can think of anything, you can think of start asking Chad g p t, and um, and don't be afraid to experiment with it. Learn it, and you will just, you will feel super charged. Super effective, and you just will, you'll feel like, wow, like this is amazing. I have, uh, I literally have, uh, gained a tool to help me be more effective, execute more throughout the day, and ultimately for my brand, for my office, um, to look more professional.it's wonderful. Michael: Awesome, Catherine, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly?Kathryn: They can email me at Progressive Dental mentor@gmail.com or they can visit me@progressivedentalmentor.com. And uh, there is a lot of other podcasts and many of your podcasts that we have done before and, uh, there is a lot of great information and all of my contact information. Michael: Awesome. So Catherine, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing Kathryn: episode.My pleasure. Thank you so much, Michael.‍‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Timothy DoolinPractice Name: Angel Fire Family DentistryCheck out Tim's Media:‍Website: http://www.angelfirefamilydentistry.com/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-tim-doolin?trk=pulse-article_social-details_comment_actor-image&original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2FEmail: angelfiredental@gmail.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:CostcoDr. HangWells FargoDDS MatchExcelOzone WaterSoftdentEaglesoftInvisalign‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Location is a big consideration in purchasing a practice! If hobbies such as surfing or skiing are important to you, keep this in mind.Demographic research is a big part of who you'll be serving, and honing in on the type of patients you want!Always keep an eye on the finances of the practice and bank records. Sometimes cash flow can feel good, but doesn't actually match up!If you're entering a practice as a new grad, don't try to change everything right away. You'll need to build trust with team members along the way.Your dental assistant is the real marketer of the practice! They handle a lot of patient communication and helping them feel at home.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Tim, how's it going? Tim: It's going well. How are you doing? I'm doing Michael: pretty good, man. Thanks for asking. If you can break it down for us, tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where Tim: you are today? Yeah, so, I grew up in Southern California Newport Beach.I went to school out in Chicago and I spent 10 years. Out there for first undergrad, masters, then dental school. And the day I graduated, I decided I wanted to own a practice and I had already prepared for the last took me about three years. So the day I graduated, I purchased my practice. I think I graduated May 20, 26th, and June 1st was my first day.And then the bank required that I did two month transition, and so the other dentist stayed on as an associate for two months, and we went from there. Basically I, I decided, I di I had decided while I was assisting another dentist during my master's program, that I wanted to own a practice. Mm-hmm.And that I probably wouldn't be the best dentist to work as an associate. just cuz I don't like following the rules, I like doing my own thing. I don't like listening to other people. So I wanted to do it my own way. And so I uh, I talked with him about owning his practice. He was basically my mentor throughout my master's and then through dental school.I worked for him as an assistant for six years, and uh, I prepared a business plan my second year. I had contacted the bank by my third year and figured out exactly what loan I qualified for and how I would qualify. So there's only one bank that will provide a. To a new grad. Mm-hmm. And they only provide, I think it was 375,000, so not nearly enough to purchase practice.So I needed to find a dentist that was willing to sell or finance half of it, at least for, I think I needed one year. Mm-hmm. Before I could get the bank to give me the rest. And so I started looking at Dennis in certain demographics. So I figured out what demographics actually. The patients that would spend the most and care the most about their teeth.And so I, I broke down everything based on demographics and figured out, okay, here's the neighborhoods where I want to be around the nation. Here's everything I fit that. There was some website that I could type it all into and, and, Breakdown demographics into exactly what neighborhoods and zip codes.So then I uh, figured out with my wife what our lifestyle should look like. And I, my big thing was I needed to be a half hour from skiing or a half hour from surfing. Yeah. Her big thing was she wanted mild weather and, and then we also both wanted to be a little bit more rural and away from a city. But ideally we wanted to be within an hour of a Costco, and that was how we started figuring everything out.And so I figured out all these different locations. I, I found a, company that would help me find the practice and broker the practice for. And then we ended up getting it down to three practices and one didn't quite fit everything. Mm-hmm. And that was this one. Uh, It wasn't that close to a Costco.So we are two hours from the nearest Costco or big box store. Really? Anything at all. Uh, Wow. So we are an hour from the nearest town of, I think it's only 30,000, and then it's two hours to the nearest city. And that's Santa Fe. And then it's three hours to Colorado Springs and three hours to Albuquerque.And so we ended up settling down in Angel Fire. It's a, a ski resort, a golf resort, and that's about it. Michael: Okay, man. So those were outta the three practices. And so what happened then after that, you decided to purchase it? Yeah. Yeah. Tim: So we came and visited this practice and the practice itself. Pretty incredible.Um, My view out every window is mountains and so my patient's view is 360 mountain views. It's just incredible. Or 180, I guess behind them is me. But yeah, we've got these crazy windows that just look out into the mountains and it was really hard to say no. And the practice was doing okay, but I could tell it was underperforming cuz the dentist just, his heart really wasn't.And so I thought, you know, if I really try here, what would it look like and how could the numbers look? And I found after the first year, I had increased everything about 20 to 30%. And that was my first year outta a dental school. I was able to do that. Fortunately, most patients didn't think I was a new grad.And I didn't really make it known to anyone. I don't think anyone still knows. So it was, and the way that they introduced me was that I was an experienced dentist who graduated top of his class and was ready to take on taking care of everyone. Then I created a, a really good relationship with uh, some of the local doctors. One doctor in specific who owns a medical clinic down the road. And we started building a, a relationship based on whole body care. And so the practice turned from being a drill and fill practice to now we are comprehensive care of what's going on, how can we help you for the future, and what can I do to make sure.We're really taking care of you. and not only are you seeing me, but we're making sure that you're seeing a, whatever practitioner you need to be seeing to get the proper care. Michael: Okay, man. And that's what you're doing right now Tim: as of today? Yes. Yeah. So that's what I currently do. And because of that, I, I mean, I'm pretty rural, the nearest specialist is two hours, so I do every specialty, uh, as well as whatever dentistry I need to do.Mm-hmm. And then we, on top of all of that, make sure that we're taking care of. Whole health. So every patient is educated on their diet, they're educated on what might be going on with their breathing, what might be going on underneath the surface, why their blood pressure is out of control what I can do from a oral perspective, or even sometimes nasal perspective, what might be causing everything here to be out of whack.Mm Michael: Gotcha man. Okay. So then how long have you been a practice owner? Tim: This is my fourth year now. Okay. Michael: Okay. So rewind a little bit real quick. You were, yeah. You grew up in Newport? Yeah. Newport be like, where? Where? Tim: In Newport. So I, I grew up, actually the smallest house on the beach in all of Newport was my house.We were, we were one house off the beach. It was a family of five and it was about 750 square feet and we were not allowed inside ever. We could sleep and that was about it cuz it was. I think when we purchased it, it was a one bedroom and my dad turned the garage into a master suite and then um, he turned, there was like a little breakfast nook area into another bedroom kind of thing.Yeah. So he, when I was 10, I got to move into the breakfast nook area. And I mean, it was a tiny house, but we didn't care at all cuz we were on the beach. Yeah. Or right off the beach. So you grew up surfing or No. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Michael: Yeah. Cause you're like, we gotta surf or ski, and I was like, okay.Tim: Yeah, absolutely. So there was many days in high school where it was I would go surfing in the morning and go skiing in the afternoon or vice versa. Michael: Yeah. Nice dude. Okay, so then you eventually prepared to own your own practice. When did you. When was it where you're like, I don't think I'm gonna be an associate for like in dental school.Did you figure that out or before dental school? Like when was the Tim: moment? It was probably first year of dental school. I started looking at the numbers of what an associate makes versus what my loans were gonna look like. I knew that going into dental school, having $600,000 of student debt was pretty standard at this point.Mm-hmm. My parents unfortunately weren't able to help me much with school, and I knew that it was going to be an investment for my future, and so I decided what is it going to look like to pay those loans off? And I could be an associate and make a certain. Or I could own my practice and if my practice is successful, I'll be able to pay it off way easier.And, and that's what I figured out cuz first year they kind of go through all the numbers with you. You have all those classes that are talking to you about, here's what your loans are gonna look like, here's what the average dentist makes graduating school. Here's what the average associate makes versus the average owner, and then here's what rural versus not rural makes.Mm-hmm. And so I broke all that down. I figured out where the dentist. Are that are making the most money. Um, And I figured out what I wanted to do and what I wanted all to look like, and by the end of first year, I knew exactly where I wanted to go with it. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So then how did you know what to put in this plan?What was actually in it? What do you wish you would've put in it now, things like that. Tim: Yeah, so basically what I started with was a mission statement and a vision statement. So my mission was that I wanted to provide care that was different than the standard dentist. And I, I broke down a few different things.I didn't really think of a holistic or whole body approach to anything. It was more of I want my patients to be educated and I didn't want to be ever selling anything to a. And that was kind of the whole moral of everything that I had talked about with the banks was my practice will never be about selling.It'll never be about marketing myself. I will use patients to market, and I will make sure that when I present a treatment plan, a patient is fully educated and they're making the decision that they feel is best for themselves. Now, that in itself is a sales technique. And I had worked in sales throughout school doing different things and whatever it might have been.But I, I wanted to make sure that I was different in that way. Cause I never wanted to feel like the, the mechanic who, you know, you go in for the oil change and all of a sudden you've got all these issues. I didn't want to be that dentist too. You go in for your cleaning and all of a sudden you've got issues.Yes. That's how we find your issues is you go in for a cleaning, but it should never feel like you're trying to be sold something. I wanted to always educate and so everything was based around technology. There's so much technology for us to be able to educate a patient with, and if we show everyone.Everything that's going on in their mouth, there's no reason that we should have to sell them on something. And so that's what it was based on. So that was kind of the mission. And yeah, I broke it down all in too. I think it was. Two sentences, and then the vision statement had a few different points to it on how I was gonna become a top 10% dentist in the state of New Mexico.How I was going to make sure that I was providing nonprofit work, how I was going to integrate the, all of their care. So make sure that I was communicating with their doctor their chiropractor. P t o t, whatever they might be involved in, so that way we can come up with comprehensive plans. I know there was four points and I can't remember the fourth one, but it started with those two and then I outlined every way that I would possibly do it.I outlined all the equipment that I would need to do it. I, I showed my certifications and what certifications I would be getting, so like lasers and, and certifications in different types of lasers and how I would introduce those into the practice to make sure that I was providing different level of care. And then, um, I talked about C B C T and the importance of C B C T. Yes, the cost of C B C T, but how it can benefit a patient. Intraoral scanning, same thing. And then I broke down point by point, the finances of the practice. I broke down how I would treat every patient. I, I mean, it was 40 pages of right.Every single thing that I could possibly do. And so that was any free time I had second year of dental school. That's what I was doing, was making sure that I had a perfect business plan. Okay, Michael: ma did, has any of that changed or evolved or grown or anything like that, or Tim: no? Yeah, so I mean, the biggest thing that's evolved from.I wouldn't say anything's ever been eliminated. It's more of evolved now with Covid, I did have to change the nonprofit work. I'm not allowed. So we aren't allowed to go to Haiti anymore. And that's where I was doing a lot of my nonprofit work. And so I've been contacting a few different companies now that countries are starting to open up of where I'll go, start working again.Mm-hmm. But I've always done nonprofit work. And then as part of that I started bringing Medicaid patients into the practice and I've opened up the practice to be, well now I'm probably the largest Medicaid provider in Northern New Mexico. I do over a million dollars in Medicaid every year.But you know, that's just my way, that I'm in the middle of nowhere. I, I need to be able to take care of these patients and I've seen the work that comes from. The other providers, and it's unfortunate. They don't have the time, they don't have the resources to, to truly take care of these patients.I don't know if they don't have the education as well, but unfortunately there's a lot of stuff that's missed and the patients come to me with them trying to have things fixed, and so I try to put it all back together. And a lot of the time you can't get paid cuz Medicaid will only pay for something every few years.And so after a patient's already had it done, you basically have to eat the cost. And so I started a nonprofit where I can eat that cost and count it as a donation. And then another big part that has evolved is the whole body care. Mm-hmm. Where now I am involving breathing into the office and a lot of sleep type medicine.A lot of facial focus and, and focus on posture and different things that are going on with the, the facial development and, and children. In adults, what might have gone wrong with their facial development? I've taken some classes and now done the, the certification for orthotropics with Dr. Hang and then I've also done the homeo block and all the d n A appliance type stuff to try and correct some of the issues that have been created from our diets and, and gone through like the western price type stuff as well.And so there's a lot of underlying stuff that I never imagined myself getting into. Michael: Yeah, no man. That's a lot. Yeah. And we'll dive into that right now, but um, rewind a little bit. And you said you went with a bank. There's only one bank you said that would require Tim: you get loan. When I was doing it, what bank was that?Wells. yeah, so Wells Fargo offered 375,000 and it was pretty good rate too. Um, I wanna say it was only like 3.5%, so it was a decent loan, especially for a new grad, but, That was the absolute max that they would cover. And so you had to get everything else financed some other way. Mm-hmm. And so I was able to get the rest of the practice seller financed and then he also threw in the building as a seller financed, and then I got it all refinanced about a year and a half later.Hmm. Okay. Michael: Gotcha. And then you said there was a company that helped you find or broker the practice and find the practice, right? Yeah. Like what company was. Tim: Yeah, so I used d d S match and they were incredible, especially as a a port student. They didn't charge. Buyer anything. And so they were incredible in finding all these different practices.And I basically listed out everything for the broker of, here's what I'm looking for, here's all of my stuff. And then he would send me the numbers for different practices in the area that were going up for sale. And this one actually wasn't for sale. He was looking for an associate at the. And after talking with me and, and working together for a little bit, he decided, you know what?Let's sell and, and that's gonna be the best way to go. Michael: So you were already working there and before thinking about buying it, or you're like, Tim: Hey on. No, no, no, no. I, I had never even, I, I've been. Twice since buy or before buying it. I visited just the one time during my spring break and one time during Christmas break actually.So I decided instead of flying home that I would drive home to California from Chicago. And we would stop by New Mexico as a, a halfway point. So me and my wife drove the whole distance and figured, all right, we'll, we'll take a look and, and see how it goes. And she actually was the one that made the final decision on here instead of the, the other location that we were looking at at the very end.Yeah. Yeah. Michael: Happy wife. Happy life, man. You're right. Yeah. So then how did you increase everything from 20 to 30% when you acquire? Tim: Yeah. So big things that he was doing was he was very focused on trying to sell things. And like I said, that was never my focus. And because of that, I think that, I think as soon as you're trying to sell things, people notice.Mm-hmm. And people feel like you're trying, they're trying to be sold on a product or whatever it might be, as well as he didn't offer patients that he didn't think could afford things. The other options, And. I mean, people pull out straight cash if they really want it. Yes. We've got a lot of ranchers around here who you'd never, you'd never think we have as much cash as they do under their mattress.And as well as, you know, we work out trades with patients. I have a patient who painted my whole house, painted the whole hot office because he wanted to get implants under his dentures. And so we traded for implants and he painted everything for me. And so I've been able to work out a lot of deals with like that actually I just did a, a huge bridge and crown work case on a patient who just decorated my office with his photos.And so he's a very well known photographer in the area, and his photos are, Pretty good Penny. And yeah, he, he traded me a few of his photos for some implant or for some crown and bridgework. Oh, nice. And so, yeah, we find ways to do things that. I don't think the other dentist really ever thought would exist up here.Mm-hmm. Um, Or he never thought that these people would be willing to pay for things. And as soon as you educate them on the importance of it, and you show them what things can really look like and you find unique ways of showing them through all the technology that we have, I mean, it's incredible what people want.And, and that's really what it is. And he, he wasn't really at that point, I think he was in his mind, on his way out, but he had never really gotten to where this practice is right now. because I don't think he had the right personality for it and he just didn't have the right outlook.Yeah. Michael: Oh, interesting. And then how did you create great relationships with the doctors in, in your Tim: area? Yeah, so, The one, she actually, when I moved to the practice, she initially left the practice because she found out that I was young and she was like, I don't want this fresh dentist working on me. And now we're like best friends.And, and so I decided that my child was gonna go to that office cuz I didn't know that she had left. Uh, I found this out way later now that we're friends. And so she uh, started seeing my child and my wife. We started talking about the different things uh, that we look at and how I look at dentistry.And, and that was where the relationship started. And then as I started developing new products and getting into new things in dentistry. Most people don't know about the different sleep appliances and homeo, block, orthotropics, that type of stuff. Then I would go and teach at the office. And so I would go to the office and, and do a lunch and learn, bring lunch for everyone and, and teach them about Orthotropics or the homeo block, show them what it all looks like, show them before and after photos on patients that have been through it.And we just started creating that relationship. And then we started working together on specific cases and it's gone from there. Now she's introduced me to her network of doctors with different specialists. So I refer often to an E N T. First stuff that I'll find on A C B C T. If I find nasal polyps or deviated septums severe tonsils stuff I'll refer over to him and we've created this awesome relationship between, between the few of us doctors.Tim Doolin DRAFT: Dude, Michael: that's awesome, man. So then let's, if I could dive into your business a little bit more. Yeah. What's production and collections looking like for. Tim: Yeah, so, so with Medicaid, Medicaid's a rough one. Mm-hmm. Um, my production in Medicaid is about 1.8 million, and on that 1.8 million, I collect about 800,000.after all of that, I also collect an additional 600,000. that's yearly. Yeah. And so yearly we're, last year was a little bit worse. We had an issue with our office manager and she wasn't collecting where we didn't realize she wasn't collecting. And so now when I was looking at the end of year numbers, things were a little bit sadder.And next year will be severely inflated because we're backdating everything and, and figuring it all out with the insurance companies. Because Medicaid just has a lot of hoops for you to jump through, and you, if you don't do it in the proper order, you don't get paid. And so that's what she had kind of skipped out on.And so there was a lot that we didn't collect. And so, I think our number, our final numbers were 1.3 last year. Okay. Oh, Michael: so wait, real quick. Your office manager didn't collect, or was she taken home? Or what was, what was going on? Tim: So she just wasn't properly submitting things. And then she would write off the patient like it was being collected because she knew exactly the numbers that should have been collected.But then when I started checking the bank accounts, I could see that the checks weren't matching up. And Tim Doolin DRAFT: what Michael: was your initial thought? What were you like, how did this conversation go down? Tim: Um, It was, well, what the hell's going on? Yeah, I, I wanted to kill her, Michael: but, so you, you confronted her, or obviously you did, but like, how did this go down?So, so Tim: she had actually left. Oh. And so she just ghosted us. One day d just did not show up and that's when I started really digging in deep to, okay, what was going on here? And it had gone on for the last, like two and a half months, and I had just had an infant daughter, so I wasn't paying as close of attention as I had been before in the past.And, and that's what allowed for it is I just wasn't as present as I normally had been. My, I didn't really care about getting the numbers daily or the graphs and all of that and checking the accounts, and it was a really unfortunate mistake. But I mean, we we're. It seems like we're able to catch up on 90% of it and collect most of it.It's just there was a lot that was missed. Looking back, Michael: what were the signs where you're like, oh, man, if somebody were to tell you like, Hey, my office manager's doing this too, you're like, dude, she's gonna ghost you, her, or what would, what are the Tim: Yeah. Um, She started not being as present. Not wanting to report things to us.Cuz my o my wife is also part of the office mm-hmm. And, and does most of the HR type work. And so she's the one who will get the reports daily. And I mean, my wife was no sleep for months, so she wasn't. Caring if there wasn't a report sent, and then she would also be the one that would check the numbers.You know, even just like cash. If we get cash, we will verify the cash with the patient with the transaction and make sure that it all matches up. And we don't do it for everyone, but we make sure that we do it. We do spot checks so that it all, so there is no issues. Mm-hmm. And yeah, she just started not being present with us.So not sending those things. We had a consultant and she wasn't really reporting any of the stuff to the consultant, which is always sketchy. But you know, we figured, okay, she's got all this stuff going on. Maybe, maybe she's just busy or she doesn't wanna bother us cuz we've got an infant daughter at home.and really we just didn't care as much as we should have been. You know, it's something that if it was a year earlier, there's no chance it would've gone more than a week with me. Um, Normally I make sure that I have weekly reports, monthly reports and sometimes even daily reports depending on what it is.so she'll post the, normally my office manager will post daily numbers for a collection, production, new patient scene and total patient scene, and they'll post it into my Excel sheet and it'll all start adding up. And then she has to give me the monthly report at the end of the month. That shows all of the numbers based on my previous numbers and based on, all of that, I have these algorithms that figure.What should it all have looked like? I basically created it all myself just because I don't like a lot of the systems that I was given by consultants and, the different practice managers or practice management groups that I had talked to. Mm-hmm. And so I created my own Excel sheets and then my own algorithms, and that's how we would always figure it out.But yeah, for the two and a half months after my daughter's birth, Kinda let it all go. Yeah. Michael: Hey, why didn't you like, what the real quick rewind. You said you hired a consultant, right? Yeah. What, who Tim: was it? So, oh man. Who was the group? We didn't get along with them. I'll, I'll leave it at that. Um, We didn't do very well with them because this all happened under their nose, you know, we, oh, really?We hired them because we were going through a big transition, not with having a baby. Not only with having a baby, but also with the fact that um, we had these two sisters that were working with, That were pretty much in charge of the office before they made all the decisions. They, they helped with everything.And as I started changing more and more of the office from the old culture, they started not being okay with a lot of it. And I told them, well, you know what? Let's just plan a civil way out and go from there. And so that's what we did. I hired a consultant. They were supposed to help us with the transition, hire this other.And they had told us, you know, we'll work with you for this period of time. So they were still working with us. It was towards the end of the time that they were working with us. And so those girls had left. Now it's been two and a half years. Mm-hmm. And so it was like 18 months into, this happened at the beginning of last year, and so 18 months into everything.this lady was starting to not listen to anyone and they didn't say anything. They didn't stop anything. They just kind of went their way. I think may mostly because we weren't communicating as much with them because of the baby. And us being kind of distracted, but yeah, it didn't go very well.Why, Michael: why did you go with. Tim: Um, I went with them cuz they had a good presentation to start. Okay. You know, they had good reviews from a lot of other dentists. And the biggest thing was I was, I was considering taking on a, on an associate cuz I see way too many patients. today I only had a half day and I saw 40 patients.Wow. And it, it's, it's a lot. Yeah. And so I have debated taking on an associate. I just don't really have enough chairs and so I'd have to build out to do that. There's this girl that's interned with us the last three summers, who's gonna be in dental school next year. And I've talked to her about potentially being an associate because it's also hard to convince someone to move to the middle of nowhere where we're at.They have to enjoy the lifestyle up here and yeah, it's an awesome lifestyle, but you also have to be okay not seeing people very often. Yeah. Costco. And, and so yeah, it just wasn't right for us, but they were, they were highly recommended by everyone. Okay. So Michael: then what was the systems you created right now where you're like, this is it, this is my own algorithm that you can kind of share with us where if we're not happy, You know what I mean? Oh my God. This is the system. Is this the only thing that exists out there? I guess so kind of thing, you know, in Tim: terms of my numbers? Yeah. The numbers that I use in my dashboard. Yeah. So, um, I, I created a few different numbers that will basically take into account how many days are worked. How many patients are seen and the, the collection itself, because so often you'll see that the algorithms from the companies will just be based on, okay, here's the collections for this day and it doesn't really take anything else into account.And then they'll break down collections per day's worked, but that's about. And so I'll u I'll make a number that's based on patient scene, that's based on day's worked. Um, It's based on the collections and then it's also based on the new patients, oh, and then hygiene. And so I take all of those things into account on my Excel sheet, and I have a algorithm that I created that includes all of those numbers to create a true collection.And I don't even remember what I call it. I think I call it adjusted collections. Mm-hmm. And so my adjusted collections, my ADU adjusted production, I should see trend lines from that. And then my trend lines are all based on the last three months and the average of the last three months and where they should go.And so I should know, you know, based on how many days I worked, here's where the numbers should be at, or here's where they should be for the next three months. And then that's also where I'll create goals for my team. And then we reward substantially if the goals are reached. And so we create games based on that.And it's all based on my adjusted numbers. So what things should be not based on. Not based on straight numbers, but based on criteria that go into those numbers. Um, Because a lot of the times that just isn't taken into account and up here, you know, like today I had a half day because we have, we've gotten so much snow since 10:00 AM this morning that all my patients sh canceled.Yeah. that's a normal thing. So, you know, if I wasn't talking to you, I probably would've gone skiing instead today. Michael: Got you, man. What do you, how do you reward. What rewards do you give them? Straight cash. Okay. Nice. Steve. And is it like, what's the cash looking like here? Tim: So like last month they got a reward.The hygienist I think got 550 each. The assistants got two 50 each and the front desk were like 300. It was somewhere like that. What is Michael: the goals for the front? Tim: so everyone's goal is still the same. Everything is based on collections. And then I will I'll give them more of a reward or less of a reward based on their specific categories.So the front desk is going to be appointments kept appointments canceled. No shows. No shows is a big one in New Mexico. I don't know how it has been in the rest of the world, but. We joke about it being the land of manana. It is, people do not show up to things here. And so it, that was a severe problem when I got here.It was very normal to see in one day, six to seven people just not show up to their appointment at all for no reason. outside of, yeah, I just didn't feel like coming. And so that's a big part of the front desk. Then like my assistants is I'll tell them it's treatment plan acceptance, because they're a big part of making sure that everything is accepted.They're a big part of making sure that the culture of the office is awesome. And so it's also how many new patients, because they are. They're basically my marketing team. The assistants are the marketing team and making sure that someone from the second they walk in the door to the second they leave.They feel like they're part of our family, they feel awesome, and it should feel like a different experience. You know, the assistant's getting 'em a warm towel at the end of their appointment to make everything feel a little bit more like a spa, getting them. We have like ozone water that we'll use in different procedures and we make the ozone in the office so the assistant can talk to them.Yeah, here's what ozone water is and why it helps. And so the assistants are part of that education. And part of that marketing because when someone hears all this stuff, they're, they get excited about it and they go tell their friends like, Hey, guess what I experienced at the dentist? Mm-hmm. This was really different.and that's what we get all the time. I would say that's at least half of our new patients are because of an assistant said something and, and then we hear. Nice. Michael: Okay man. So then like that's how you can kind of, do you ever get an assistant where, or have you ever gotten one where they're like, that's not my job.I'm here to just assist you, kind of thing. Or maybe their conduct or attitude kind of showed that and you're like, Tim: yeah, they don't work for me anymore. Michael: How do you, how do you um, my guests give them, Or have you ever had to talk to one and be like, this is how it is here, kind of thing, right? Yeah. This is the office culture.And then they did work and then it happened. Tim: Yeah, Yeah, so actually one of my best assistants right now she started as a very quiet girl. She didn't wanna talk to the patients. She was really good at assisting. And so that was what kept me trying to work with. She didn't really want to have communication with the patient.She was afraid of talking and being wrong about something and, and so I had to coach her a lot on, Hey, this is exciting. It's cool to teach someone this stuff. And, and when you start educating them on all the, the benefits, The different things that we provide and start teaching them what really can be awesome about taking care of teeth.They get excited about it. And so she started just talking about things as if, you know, she knew everything there was to talk about. Yeah. And now she's become friends with a lot of the patients. Uh, A lot of the patients will stop her on the street throughout town because yes, we are a small town here, but she doesn't actually even live here.She commutes uh, 45 minutes from the town over, and that town is 30,000. So, I see her in the plaza and she's hanging out with patients now and it's really cool to see. And then my other assistant, it was no issue because she was already that type of person. And when we hired her, we knew right away that she was gonna be perfect for it.She had always kind of been in customer service jobs. But never had a career type job. It was always like, okay, I'm gonna work in retail here, or front desk there. And she just hopped around and she's been with us now two years and she's doing incredible, dude. Michael: That's nice, man. That's really, really good.So then let's talk about that severe problem no shows. Yeah, because I always think like, man, if you can figure a way to eliminate that, you'd be like a bajillionaire. So how did you, how did you start Tim: minimizing. I mean, the biggest one was we started charging for it. Really? Yeah. So it's a hundred dollars no show fee.And do you actually Michael: charge, or are you kind of like, we're gonna waive it this one time? I understand. We have only Tim: charged it, I think since, so we started implementing it about six months ago. I think we've only charged it three times. But what we did is we added it into the. To tooth places, so mm-hmm.In the new patient the phone call, that script, it's in there now. And so when the, our front desk talks to a new patient, she brings it up. It's also in there for a patient who hasn't been with us for a while, and then we put it on a um, there's a contract that they sign when they come into the office.Fortunately, we also changed our software. And so it became an excuse to have them refill out all their paperwork. And in the paperwork it set, there's one whole sheet that talks about our no-show and our late fee. And if you are, if you no-show on us, it's a hundred dollars fee. If you are late, we have the right to give your appointment to someone else.and so we just started changing the culture. We were blessed with a, a front desk lady who's just incredible at mm-hmm. Being very straightforward with people. She has no problem talking about the NoHo fee with every patient. She'll take credit cards from a new patient. So if a new patient is setting up their appointment, she'll take a credit card from them and say, yeah, well we're gonna charge you if you don't show up to this appointment.So you need to be here. Yeah. And it, it absolutely has changed things. I mean, we've had people during snowstorms say, no, I have to come because I have a hundred dollars fee if I don't show up. And they've got no car that can make it. And they're calling us frantically trying to figure out how they can get there.Yeah. And so it's really been a, a, the easiest way to try and make sure it works, but we haven't really had to charge it. The only times where I've charged people is there's the occasional patient and it's usually a a state insurance person who says, no, my, my insurance will pay for that. Yeah, no, your insurance is not gonna pay for that. And you're gonna learn that you need to be more responsible. What do they get upset? Yeah, they absolutely do, but I'm also the only provider in the area for Medicaid, so. Oh, that's true. They can either not take care of it or they can pay that fee.I mean, that's a lot of the time what it is, but. We fortunately, really haven't had to charge it. Yeah. So Michael: Interesting. Okay, man. You said you changed software system Tim: to Yeah, so we changed from um, what was the old one? He was using a really old system and I kept it around again. I had the, the old team that I inherited, and so I wanted to change things really slow when I bought the office.Mm-hmm. And so I kept the old system. I can't even remember what was Soft Dent. That's what it was. Mm. And it was the old version of Soft Dent and it was the downloaded version, so it wasn't ever truly updated, like their new version is, and they have like their cloud version that they use. And we changed to Eaglesoft now.Michael: Okay, cool man. Cool. Eaglesoft. So then let's fast forward now. Now what you're doing, you have a bigger vision, right? You wanna do. Do you want, what do you wanna do, Tim? Do you wanna just like be there, be this pr or what Tim: is your vision here? Yeah, so, my next goal is to build a new clinic. So I would like to build a clinic that is different from every other clinic that I have ever been to.And it's going to be an integrative care center where you go to and we provide, Whole health care in a way that is very technology savvy. So you go in and we use every piece of technology we can to basically give you a tour of your body and the dentist and the doctor don't even need to be there for the tour, but we're gonna give you a tour based on blood work, based on different scans.Cuz I mean they've got all sorts of body scans they can do now that are super easy, super fast. I mean my scale now tells me. What percentage of my fat is located in water weight versus, you know, actual fat versus bone density. Mm-hmm. And it, all, it is, is a scale, you know, and that's a, a minimal one.And they've got all these crazy things that they can do now. And so the doctor that I'm working with at, we were, we want to build a clinic that integrates all of that technology along with blood draw and the dental scans that we can do between a C B C T and a 3D scan and go through a PA with a patient, every single thing that we can in their body and where the form and function is going wrong, and we can relate.Okay. Your face isn't developed in this way. You've got a posture and balance going like this. Your bite is also in balance because your posture is misaligned now you aren't breathing right, and, and we talk about it all and then correlate how we can change function at home and what they're doing at home to make it all better and, and basically make a new specialty out of it.So then Michael: this is planning to Tim: launch. We haven't decided. So we're actually uh, me and her are working with, some people out of the country and we are, there's some other places out of the country that are doing similar things. Now the people that we're working with are all billionaires and that's who we're providing this care to.And we want to make it a, a standard office experience because where this care is being provided in other places, it's at beautiful resorts that, you know, we get invited to and we build this care facility as a, just a makeshift facility that looks awesome and works really well, just with a couple pieces of equip.Because most of the stuff can travel and then her expertise can travel very easily and my expertise can travel very easily as well. So they just bring us in a couple pieces of equipment and we can set up a, he a healthcare facility and provide what we can just through educating people. And then we would like to though bring that to the us.We would like to make it a, a standard way that people can get healthcare. So Michael: you're doing this already in, you're doing Tim: it like you're going out there. And so My problem is I haven't been able to get licensed in the other country yet. Uhhuh, I have to take their board exam in September. And so I am hopefully gonna be taking all that and, and then providing all the care over there.What's the other country, but Maldives. Michael: Oh, oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Billionaire. Yeah. Okay, man. It's nice though. It's nice. Yeah. So you're going to do that Tim: here? So the, yeah, that's, that would be my goal is to bring. Bring that type of care here where we can teach people how to take care of themselves in a better way, without medications, without, and, and that's, that's really the issue.And what we have to figure out and what we haven't yet figured out is how do you bill all of this? Because it's difficult to bill knowledge and it's difficult to bill education through insurance. Mm-hmm. And so, That's where we are currently at a roadblock and, and trying to figure out, you know, how can we code this and, and what can we do for it?And maybe we end up coding it as family practice and, and standard care like that. I'm not entirely sure yet, but yeah, we've already picked out a few different locations that we have considered. And hopefully, we'll, we'll get something started pretty soon in terms of, getting at least the dental and medical portion built.But I want a chiropractor involved. I want to have uh, PT and OT involved in as well, and, and really get as many doctors on board as I can. Michael: Man, that's gonna be exciting, man. That's gonna be really, really exciting. Tim: I hope it, it turns into something. It's just, we don't really know what it's all gonna look like yet.Let me Michael: know when you open up the investors round. I have like my savings, which is five bucks. I'll, I'll put it in your van, I'll throw you, but no, that's gonna be exciting. Throughout this process, Tim, I guess from the moment that you decided to do your business plan for your practice till today, what's been some of your biggest struggles or, or pitfalls or fails?Tim: Biggest struggles and pitfalls. I mean, really a, a big portion of its time. Building the business plan takes a long time. Getting financing was a ton of hoops. Banks do not trust a, a new grad, that is not a thing anymore. That used to be a thing. a lot of dentists who were graduating 20 years ago, That was normal to build a practice and not become an associate right away.That is no longer the case. Banks don't want to give you money, even though dental loans are proven to be one of the least risk loans that you can, that a bank can give out. Mm-hmm. But. They still don't. And so I talked to bank, after bank, after bank, trying to convince them based on my business plan, based on everything that I had, and even though I had put in all the work that I did, they still did not wanna give me the money.that was really the hardest part. And then it was finding, finding the right team, because you know, you have to find an attorney, you have to find an account. And I was a student, I didn't have any money. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these people had to work for me off of the, the fact that I was going to have that loan come through on whatever date and then I was going to pay them.And so I had to work extremely hard to find people that would work for me, despite me not having money on hand. And basically they worked for the day, the contract was signed, here is what we get paid. And so I was very fortunate and I worked incredibly hard to find that team. And it was a lot of making connections, going to dental conventions, finding, finding the right people at the conventions.And then one person would introduce me to another person would introduce me to another person, and, and we'd kind of go from there. And that was really the, the biggest advantage was in having that mentor that I had. He was able to introduce me to people that trusted him, and then because they already had trust in him, then they would trust me.And then once we had a conversation and I would explain, here's everything that I can do, they would jump on board. But yeah, it was incredibly difficult building that team. And then when I bought the practice, Really the hardest thing was convincing a team of people who had been in the business for, I don't think there was anyone who had not been in dentistry for less than 10 years.Mm-hmm. And I had to convince them to trust me who was, had graduated three days ago. And so I had to go from absolutely nothing to, okay, now these hygienists have to trust my treatment plan. that's where I did, I had to follow the old dentist and figure out exactly what he would do.Uh, And so I actually. Had him send me 20 cases before I went over there of the x-rays and then the the treatment plan that he came up with from the x-rays, so that way I could figure out how he planned and what it all looked like. And then I figured out that it was also based on insurance, how he would plan.And so I basically copied his treatment planning strategies for the firs

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Mary PhamPractice Name: Lollipop DentalCheck out Mary's Media:‍Website: https://lollipopdental.com/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lollipop-pediatric-dentistryLollipop Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lollipopdental/?hl=enSweet Smiles Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sweetsmilesortho/?hl=enWomen Dentist Entrepreneur (WDE) Facebook Page: https://m.facebook.com/groups/379332796353702/Email: drmary@lollipopdental.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:HootersKaplan Test PrepDAT - Dental Admission TestDentistry of USCDr. Gardner BealeUniversity of ChicagoLake Forest Lollipop DentalIn-N-Out BurgerBill GatesYelpDEO Mastermind GroupDenti-Cal‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Your goals and vision may shift over time! Take this into account when making decisions.Your first 2 practices may get by without systematization, but this is essential when jumping to 3+ practices!You do not have to be a boutique fee for service practice to be profitable.When talking to patients, never come across as judgmental or condescending. Always talk to them like you would your bestie.If the teammate you let go is surprised, you may need to improve your performance checkup process.One person can manage five to seven people effectively. Much more than that and you need to hire!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Mary, how's it going? Mary: Everything is going great, Michael. Thank you for having Michael: me. No, thank you for being on. If you don't mind me asking, I know you told me before we started recording, but where are you located? Mary: We are in Orange County, California.Our offices are in Orange County and Los Angeles County. Actually, we're we're expanding a little bit. Michael: Really? Why Los Angeles? Mary: It's still within driving distance to Orange County. So currently with our offices, we still like to be really present in them, at least visit them once a month or so, and mm-hmm.Now we just wanna drive, make it like a 30, 45 minute drive and, um, and we have patients that live in LA County that want us there. So we decided to serve our patients. Michael: What, how many practices do you Mary: could have? So we have seven currently. And, um, I think we're gonna just keep going. We're having fun doing it.So, Michael: uh, you make it sound like so, so funny, like, you know, let's just keep going and build. And so before we dive into that, tell us a little bit about your past, present. How'd you get to where you are today? Mary: Initially, I actually didn't think I was gonna be a dentist. Mm-hmm. I, I wanted to be an ob gyn.My parents were like the typical Asian tiger parents and wanted everyone to be a doctor. So I applied to med school. I was a med school reject, and um, I moved to Houston, Texas against my parents' wishes and became a Hooters girl. So I loved, so I worked there and then I met a dentist actually at the end of my shift.And she came in, she had some chicken wings and we were just chatting and she was like, you should really consider dental school. And then I was like, nah, I don't wanna be a dentist. I don't wanna be in people's mouth all day. But then she, she was like, all you have to do is take the d a t, see how you do and it'll just open more doors for you, so you should try it out.Mm-hmm. So I took the, I decided to focus, I took this KAPLAN course and I took the d a t and I did acceptable enough to get into U S C dental school, and I guess that paved the way for me and dentistry. And so, um, went to dental school not knowing much about dentistry at. And, um, I did pretty well in dental school, to where one of my mentors, Dr.Gardner Beal, um, he encouraged me to pursue pediatric dentistry because he saw during my pediatric rotation that he's like, oh, Mary, you're really, really good with kids. You should consider pe. And I was like, nah, I'm ready to start working. Make some money. So, you know, start my career. And he is like, well, let's just, you know, pr be a part of the pediatric selective and just, you know, you'll have fun.You, um, you really seem like you like it. And he encouraged me to apply to pediatrics. And then I got into pediatrics at the University of Illinois and Chicago and I finished my residency. me and my husband got married. He's an orthodontist and he decided to, Settle in Orange County, and that's how we ended up here.and of course, because he's an orthodontist, he's like, I want my pediatric dentist wife to refer me all the patients, so I never have to do any marketing ever again. So, within the year I just opened a startup. and it was just like, luck, you know, we, we thought we were gonna open in this city. It didn't work out.At the time, you're very discouraged because you're looking at all of these locations that you think you wanna work in. However, everything doesn't align the way that you, thought that it would. And so, um, we ended up finding our first location in placenta. The contractor was, you know, who we're still there today and he owns the building and he's like, you know what, Mary?Like this is the last suite in this building. I'll pay for everything. I'll pay for to build it out. I'll pay for whatever you need. So you just put the equipment in and it's yours. And so I. And I didn't have much of a startup cost there except for the equipment and a little bit of upgrades and it costs.But besides that, I was really fortunate in that I found them. And so, um, from there, we, I would say within the first three years we became busy, you know, um, our model is, Give everyone a reason to smile. And what we mean by that is everyone, no matter what type of insurance you have, no matter what your socioeconomic status is, we think that every child deserves quality, specialty, dental care, if the parents choose that, so, You know, we're not picky with being like a fee for service or a PPL only.We cater to everyone with the best technology and with specialty care. And so that has just been our business model. And when we realized that we're able to become profitable while seeing all different types of payers, It really became something that we loved. You know, like I didn't wanna just serve fee for service patients.You know, like, how could I develop this business model that can be profitable, but, and also doing what I love, so, That was really fulfilling. and then we started growing really fast to where we decided to open in different locations where our patients were asking us. So we just opened our Lake Forest location a couple of months ago, and I would say 80% of the patients that come through are, were our patients that visited another location.Moved to South Orange County to where they're like, oh my gosh, we're so glad you're here. And I'm like, you spoke, we listened. You said you guys need an open one in South Orange County. So here we are. so that's kind of where we are today. and it's still a really fun ride. You know, I think when people start to scale by the second or third location, they.Start to get stressed out. Like what worked at one location doesn't always work with two, and what works at two doesn't always work with three. But once you get to three or four and you've systemized a lot of things, it really helps with scaling. And so, um, and so yeah, it's a, it's a fun time for us and, and it also scaling allows your team to have growth opportunities.You know, like if you're in a single location, then you might just be a dental assistant, maybe like a lead. But then where is it? Where else can you go right from there if you stay there? So, My goal has changed from opening one practice to how many more lives can I change? Not only patients, but my team.How can I continue allowing them to grow as we grow because they have been with me for so long. Right? And you just wanna see people succeed. So it's fun. I love it. Michael: Nice. That's a a lot. Uh, you going? That was a little, it's fantastic. It's fantastic. Real quick, where in Houston were. Mary: I was, I lived in Pasadena, but the Hooters that I worked at was off the, off of Kirby.Michael: Okay. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Pasadena over there is different than Pasadena in here, right? Yes. It's very different. Yeah. That's nice. Okay, so then it's interesting you said no twice, right? You're like not a dental school and then NAD to pediatrics, but you went that way, right? Why? Why do you think that? Mary: I think part of it was one, it would make my parents proud that even though I wasn't a doctor, I was some sort of professional.so that was one. And then two, I think that I wanted to push myself into a better opportunity, right? Like I, I actually used to do nails. My parents owned several nail shops growing up, and one thing my mom always told me was, no matter what the skill. You can always learn more, and that'll just make you a better person, you know?Mm-hmm. So like I still have my manicuring license, even though I don't use it, I still renew it every year. Yeah. And it's like, it's fun, right? It's like you, it's a skill that you've acquired, that you've learned, and you're licensed to do it, and it's only good for you to learn to do a lot of different things.So, Dentistry. I don't practice behind the chair as much. Maybe once or twice a month when I'm filling in for my doctors who are on vacation. But, um, but I did it for 12 years, you know, and I really loved it. I feel like I became very good at not only clinical dentistry, but catering to patients needs. And now I have my second calling, which is developing people.Mm-hmm. And continuing to build my company. Uh, you know, affect as many lives as I can in a positive way. Yeah. Michael: No, that's, that's fantastic. Now, I know you kind of said like, now you accept anybody, right? Like, or not now, but like you've always accepted any kind of patient. Does that mean like Medi-Cal, any type of insurance?That doesn't matter. Mary: Exactly. So we are in network with almost every payer. The only ones that we are out of network with are the HMOs that require certain criteria that we think are unreasonable. Like for example, there's certain HMOs that say you have to try at the general dentist three times with failed appointments before we will pay for you to see a specialist, which I think is wrong because the general.Knows if the patient is able to tolerate treatment at a general dentist or if they need specialty care, why make them go three times before you'll refer them? Because by the time they get to us after the third time, they're so scared, you know? So those are the only insurance plans that we don't take are the ones that I just ag I don't agree with.They're pro protocol or their, their philosophy. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then you also mentioned that the, then the first three years, Of your startup, you became busy. Mm-hmm. So break it down to us. What were you doing? What didn't work? What worked? Mary: So initially I thought I wanted to be this boutique fee for service practice.Mm-hmm. I think that's the, picture that people paint, right? Mm-hmm. And so whenever I was a resident, we saw every payer type, mainly Medicaid. As a resident, and then when I went into private practice, I thought that I wanted to be this boutique p p O practice, but then I realized I wasn't fulfilled, I didn't see as many cavities or much extensive treatment.It was a slower pace. Um, which is okay, but I like being busy. You know, I worked at a nail shop for 15 years, right? So, I mean, you're seeing, you have a lot more interaction with people and so it, it, it's just a different type of practice. It's not right or wrong, but I think it's just like different dental practices in general, right?Some people like to sit and talk with their patients for a really long time, and some people thrive in a fast-paced environment where I like saying hi to five different people and. With kids in particular, they're very impatient. And when the kids are impatient, the parents are more impatient. Mm-hmm. So I like the fast paced type of environment.when I first started practicing, I worked out in Riverside County where it was like a hundred percent Medicaid. And so when I left that practice to open my own, a lot of the patients would come and see me at Lollipop, where our practice was in placenta and, um, At that time I didn't take Denal because I was like, well, you know, I don't know if I wanna open that door, but I'll still see them for free.So the social worker would bring them and I would still see them. And, um, I just wouldn't bill or wouldn't charge or anything like that. So then the social worker was like, Dr. Fam, like, we can help you. Why don't you just sign up so then you'll get paid for seeing. These patients that, that are driving an hour to two hours to come see you.And I'm like, all right, we can do that. So I called Medi-Cal and they said, you can, you can choose to see whichever patients you want, whether it's just kids under five special needs kids or whoever you can, you don't have to take every single person, right? You can just selectively decide like which patients you wanna see.And then I was like, yeah, I just wanna only see my patients. I don't wanna take any new patients, just the patients that I've followed for many. And so, um, so then we. Got slammed with patients cuz I couldn't say no to anyone. Mm-hmm. I mean, I had this, this thing where I'm only gonna see my patients and then hey, but I have a friend and then I, I'm telling everyone to come here and we love it here.And I was like, yes, yes. We'll see them, don't worry. Like, we'll take care of everybody. We can save the world. And so, um, so that's kind of how we got busy was because we were like, you know what, we're not gonna say no to any children that need specialty care. And we know we're the best, We're not gonna close our doors to anyone at all.You know, if we can help them, we will. Mm-hmm. And that's how we got from like, kind of like a boutique P p O type practice to where we are today. Michael: Gotcha. You're right, a hundred percent. So many times we're like, I wanna be a boutique then I only wanna have like work one to two clinical days. Right. Maybe good, good days.And then from that point on, have an associate be fee for service. Where does that come from? Why did you have that? Mary: You know, I can't, I can't put my finger on like one particular thing, but I just think people always Put Medicaid in like a negative connotation. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, it's like low reimbursement people cancel, the socioeconomic status and it's gonna run the fee for service patients out.You know? And then, so actually what I said was, you know what, like we're gonna be the in and out of pediatric dentistry no matter what your socioeconomic status is, whether. Bill Gates, if you like Inn out, you'll be there. Or whether you're a homeless person, you can still eat Inn Out or someone will buy you Inn out, right?And so, but there's no selectivity of who goes there. It's more of like, okay, if you like a good fresh burger, like it's affordable to everyone. So mm-hmm. That's, that's where I felt like, I don't know. I think just my heart is with children and I feel like I didn't go into pediatric dentistry to just. A fee for service type population.I went into pediatric dentistry to, to help the kids with the best level of care that need it the most. And if we could find a way to make it into a profitable business, then why? Why won't, why wouldn't you do that, right? Mm-hmm. Michael: Mary, when did that change then, for you, when you were like, okay, I, I did my startup, I wanted to be boutique, and then you.All right, now we're gonna be in and out. Like it felt like there was some part in your, in this moment, maybe it was before, I don't know. You honed in, you hyper-focused on exactly what you wanted to be do and things like that. when did that happen? The Mary: moment that I can think of is when I had a family actually that had like two or three adopted children that were under Medicaid, and then they had a couple biological children that were like ppo.And so, um, parents told me that they would always have to take the Dental Cal or the Medi-Cal kids somewhere else because there wasn't like a quality dental office that took everybody that was a specialist. And so at that time I was like, well, I don't want you to have to split up or like, feel like you're not getting that quality care.And, and that's the comments that we get is like, Oh, I've, I've never seen a Medicaid office look like this or provide this level of care. So I think there's a stigma with like Medicaid offices. Mm-hmm. Is that they're a rundown, or the technology's not there, or you're not getting the quality of care that you would get.But I think that we've changed that. You know, we're like, you know, no matter who you are, you're still gonna get the same level of quality. No matter if you're a Dcal patient or you're a cash patient, you're gonna get the same level of quality. There's no difference in. Service or procedure or products or materials that you get recommended, um, because of your payer status.And so I think knowing that you can serve everyone, um, and like I said, that one family was that one moment where I was like, oh man, I didn't realize that, you know, you had to kind of split up your family just because there wasn't one place that you could go that you were comfortable with. Michael: Mm-hmm. That's true.And I'm sure it means a lot for the child too, you know what I mean? And when looking back, maybe not in that moment, but like looking back, they're gonna, you know what I mean? Think about it and say, oh, we always had to go to like another practice that like real, they heard us, they did all this. Right. And my brother and sister, they went to the nice one, right?And things like that. And I wanted to go, but looking back, they'll, they'll realize that. But So then when it came to the Medi-Cal, do you feel like sometimes people, or Dentca, do you think sometimes people. Like, you know what Mary? Like, I, I wanna accept it. I do accept it in Medicare, but I just, I either have to see a ton of patience in order to make something and pay my team, and then I don't even have time to get, you know what I mean?What's the latest technology? Let's do an admin day. Let's figure things out. Let's make our mission, you know what I mean? Or is it the. Kind of the other way where it's like, Hey look, I don't wanna do that because I'm not gonna have the time for and the money to do what I wanna do with my practice. Mary: Right.I think everyone's goals are different. Right. like we talked about before, some doctors just like to sit and chat with their patients and for quite some time. I'm the type that delegates very well. So what I mean by that is, is my assistants are trained to do a lot of the anticipatory guidance in nutritional counseling.The oral hygiene instructions. Um, they spend 95% of the time with the patient. And so I'm just going in to diagnose, verify, and make treatment recommendations. So I allow my team to. Really develop that bond with the patient and be the main educator because they can tell them exactly the same thing that I tell them and it doesn't make a difference if it comes from me or from the assistant.And I feel like doing it that way empowers them too. Um, because I've hired some assistants who have worked for 10, 15 years, but they've never passed an instrument to the. Because they said that the doctor likes everything on their tray. Kind of like in dental school, we are the only, like, we are our own assistant, so you're used to working a certain way.And so I've had assistants that only hold the suction for doctor, and they've done that for 10 years. But when it comes to pre-op, post-op instructions, You know, getting everything ready, you know, informing the patient of all of these things. They've never done that because the doctor does all of that.So, you know, I think for us, we, the quality of the care that you're providing, but also the patient experience is very important. And so do I feel like the patient experience with my dental assistant doing a lot of the talking, communicating education, Am I still able to provide that with the same level of care as if I were to do it myself?And I do. You know, and I think that we, we have, we call like a Lollipop Dental Training Academy, where we actually go through training for every single person. And like their first week they're, it's customer service training. So they're learning how to talk, what type of energy they're gonna bring, and then they're learning all the verbiage when they come. Michael: Break that down to me. How does the Lollipop Dental Academy work? So the first week is customer service, and then every day you like, welcome, come on to the team. And how does it. Mary: Yeah, so after they do onboarding, the first week is, like I said, customer service training. It could be anything from learning all the education.There's a lot of role playing, so I'll just use a baby exam as an example. Like if you have a child and you bring the baby in for the first visit, there's a series of questions and recommendations. That are asked such as, does your child have any habits? What type of water are you drinking? And then depending on what the parent says, we make a recommendation on that.So we do a lot of role playing. So that way every assistant is trained on not only the guidelines, but also what to recommend and even how to respond if a patient says I wouldn't say the wrong thing, but let's just say if it's a, it's a bad habit. how to say that in a way that's not judgmental, you know?So like, Kind of like when you go to the dentist, right? And they say, are you flossing? And they just say, yeah, but they're not really flossing like they're supposed to, but they know that if they say no, there's gonna be a lecture. Mm-hmm. So there's never a lecture, there's never any judgment zone. Um, the way that we teach our team is, you know, treat them as if they're your bestie, bringing you their baby and you just wanna help them, right?So. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, customer service training, week two, we go into, I think certifications, um, expectations on quality. Hmm. So a lot of, you know, not every dental assistant, um, Corona Polish is the same, you know, some of them don't do it as thoroughly. So we do have like clinical excellence, expectations and it's graded, so then they'll get graded on the quality of each thing.And then I think each week they just progress in clinical skill. And then there are expectations of customer service each week as well. Meaning, did you get a Yelp review? Like week two? You should have two. Week three, you should have three Week four, you should have four that week. So they have those expectations.Two. Michael: Wow. Has it ever happened where it's like, Hey, it's week four. I I, I didn't get a Yelp four. You know what I mean? Like, are they just asking or how are they getting these? Mary: Yeah, they're just asking, you know, like there's ways that we ask and um, And their lead or their trainer will help them, because sometimes people are shy.But, but then you have to get them into that habit of, okay, this is the expectation that you have is you have to get four, but if you got one week one, then you know how to do it. Now you just gotta keep doing it. Um, so yeah, they ask. Michael: Gotcha. Uh, you mentioned that you have a way to ask how. Mary: I don't wanna tell you all my secrets, but, Michael: but we get it.You got, you got you, got you. Okay. No worries. Okay. That's interesting though. So then how long is that? When is the training process done? Mary: Normally it's week seven or week eight. All of the basics have been taught. then it's just repetition, right? Like if you're practicing, uh, space maintainers, then you.Have a certain level, um, before you get that signed off. And then once you, once clinically, you, the trainer feels like you are competent. It's like a competency in dental school. Like you keep doing it until you pass. Mm-hmm. And then once they. Are competent and our leadership team feels like they're ready for the next step.And then they're, you know, we kind of see where each team member is and what, how they think they can contribute past just clinical skill. And everyone's different. You know, some people wanna train, some people wanna lead the team. Some people like KPIs and metrics. You know, um, everyone's a little bit different.Michael: Nice. So then has anybody. Not like, maybe like week four you're just like, all right. You know, taking, taking you out, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Oh Mary: yeah. I mean, there's a certain level of expectation. You know, some people interview very well, but then are really shy mm-hmm. On the floor. Um, and if they don't kind of break out of their shell and meet the expectation, then we do have those conversations.Mm. Like maybe you're not meant to work with kids, you know, even though you think you are because of x, Y. Mm-hmm. Michael: Does that normally go good, those conversations? Mary: Um, I always say we never let someone go as a surprise, you know, so we do, um, you know, verbal conversations, um, written warnings, uh, everything. So we, we set expectations, um, to make sure that they understand what the benchmarks are and, you know, and I.If they meet our core values. And, and I think that's the main thing. If you meet our core values, but it takes you a little bit longer to get where we want you to be, but we can see that there's progression, then that's more important. And, and maybe not, this role's not for you. Maybe we need to make a lateral move and put you in another department because you're struggling with this.Mm-hmm. You know? So, um, so I think. You know, we, we follow traction with like our, our, um, meeting cadence and systems and we do what they call the people analyzer, where if we don't have clarity on whether or not we should keep someone, we just put it across our core values and see if, okay, are you kind, are you dedicated?Do you have a growth mindset? Do you show leadership quality? Um, are you, you know, team player? And then if they do seem like they have all of our core values, then we say, okay, maybe they're just struggling with this. Maybe they'll do better in billing, or maybe they'll do better in this role, um, because we do feel like they fit our culture, but they're just a slower learner.Or maybe they're not that detailed in this, but they're super customer service oriented. So maybe we can put them in a people operations role or so. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. That's interesting. And so when that happens, let's just say for example, you're, they don't meet one or two core values, but you're kind of dry on that role.You know what I mean? Like where you're, or has that ever happen? I know that's happening a lot to a lot of us out here right now where we're struggling looking for team members. Right. Um, but it comes to you where you're like, okay, we need this. They're not the best fit, but we can do for now, does, do you do that or.Mary: So if someone's a straight no. So we do it like a plus, plus minus, and then a minus. Mm-hmm. So if they're like, let's just, I'll just use proactive, right? So if they're like kind of proactive sometimes, but then sometimes they're not, they'll get a plus minus, and that means we can work on it. But if they're our, one of our core values is dedication, and they're like, no, because they're late every single day and they call out.Then we say, okay, this needs to change right away. And if they're late for the next, 30 to 90 days I think is what they do if they're late one time in the next 90 days. And that could be grounds for immediate termination. So we, we really do stick to the core values when it comes to. If you're not dedicated, you're not dedicated because you call out or you come in late every day.That's disrespectful to everybody that comes on time, and it's showing that we as a company tolerate that and it goes against who we are. So we have let very good skilled people go. Due to not fitting our core values. And it, and it always ends up being that the team appreciates that. Mm-hmm. They're like, oh, they were late every day.Like, why should I come on time every day if they're allowing that? So we do, um, we do do the people analyzer and like I said, it does give you clarity on whether or not someone fits who we. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. That's interesting. Now, you also mentioned that once you open the first practice second, right, you systematized.Mm-hmm. I know a lot of the times we think when we open a practice, number one, we're like, got it. I know the blueprint. I can do the same thing for the second one. Is that true? Mary: No. You always have to pivot and change. Because they're, you know, like, I'll use one perfect example. When you have one location, everyone, you can probably verify all your own insurance, right?You don't really need help, you're not that busy. Mm-hmm. Or you've come up with the way that works. But then as you well in that one location, if as you grow, it's gonna put a lot of stress on your team. what we do is we say, okay guys, what is it we could automate and what is it that that's causing you a lot of stress right now that we can help?And from there we come up with a solution to help with that. But I think as you're growing more locations, um, it's not gonna be the same, you know, like you have more team members, you need more managers, um, you centralize a lot of your services. You know, because you don't need a biller for each office.Now you can have a bill. For four offices, you know, for me it's kind of fun building out different parts of our organization. Um, but you know, there's so many things that change that I couldn't even put my finger on one thing. But I think the main thing is, people, you know, like the larger that your organization.You know, you're and I, and this example I love to use is like, when it's just you and five people, your influence is really strong. You see them every day. You work with them every day. It's like a wifi signal, right? Like you're there and they like, you're really in tune. But as you grow, your wifi signal gets weaker and weaker.So then you need people. In place that's gonna keep that signal strong. And so they say one person can effectively manage up to five to seven people. And I do believe that like once you get to like 10, 12, 13 people, then you're not as effective in leading those people. But, but yeah, there's, there's so many things that change.It's hard to just say one thing, but I think just keeping up with what your needs are and knowing that you need leadership in place to make sure that. Each of the team members still feel loved and cared for and, and engaged. And it doesn't necessarily have to be you, the doctor, it could just be whoever it is that their manager mm-hmm.Um, is. Michael: Yeah, I like that. It's, it's true. The wifi, you know what I mean? Didn't they say it's like, um, you can test it out with like a pizza party or something like that, like get a pizza and then however much, you know what I mean? If you're like, I need to order two pizzas, and that means you have too many people on your team or so.Yeah. In the room. Yeah, something like that. But, uh, that's awesome. I really appreciate that, um, analogy and at the same time, I know it's kind of, um, difficult for a lot of people to try to systematize right. When it comes to this. So how did you come up with it? Did you seek help? I know you said you read traction, things like that, but like how did you nail.Mary: So I think the one thing that really helped me the most was joining a mastermind of people who were very like-minded or better than me, right? Or like better meaning, um, have grown their organization a lot larger. And we're still sane. Mm-hmm. They didn't feel like, crazy yet. So, um, so yeah, surrounding yourself with the people that have that same mindset and that are, that have achieved more than you is so inspiring.You know, you know how they say you never wanna be the smartest person in the, cuz then you're in the wrong room. Right. So I love to surround myself with really growth, like growth mindset. Uh, people who really challenge me, um, to be better. And so, and, and I joined, um, The D E o I think maybe like few years ago.It's a mastermind group for dental organizations that are starting off. Um, and then I've joined other groups as well. Uh, and I think everyone's tea is different, right? They just mm-hmm. Some people, um, like different groups. But I would say anything that challenges you, that makes you grow is something that, that is priceless, Michael: Yeah, I like that. Okay. And then right now with your practices e even if you could recall with like year one or your first practice, what were you doing for marketing and advertising and what'd you stick with throughout this whole time? Um, so Mary: as far as marketing, we, um, we did a lot of just grassroots, you know, so we would go out in the community, set up tables, um, we would visit pediatricians.I mean, we would. To events where our patient avatar would be. Mm-hmm. Which is anywhere with children. Right. Or moms. And, and we still do that. I mean, we do a lot of preschool presentations. We do a lot of health fairs where moms are. and then, you know, as far as like, spend on online marketing, we don't really do any of that.Most of it is just, I think, um, You know, asking for reviews and more grassroots. And we do a lot of, um, like internal promotions for our current patients. Um, but you know, to be honest, we don't spend a lot on actual, like marketing. Mm-hmm. Michael: No, I think that's, that's brilliant. Like the ground marketing, the grassroots marketing.when you went to these events, Well, two questions. How did you get inside of like the, the preschools and things like that? Like what would you say? But the second thing is like, did you have an incentive that you would offer them for them to sign up or, Mary: or. No, we just called and asked. I mean, I think there's a power in asking, you know, like I said, asking for reviews, asking for like, Hey, can we come to your school and do a preschool presentation?We'd give them little goodies like, like, you know, postcards and toothbrush and some branded stuff. Um, but you know, most of it was just being bold. Putting yourself out there. You know, like when we go to now, we have tools, two full-time marketing people, which we didn't have before. Marketing department when I first opened was me, but which I still go sometimes, but they have more, they, they have a lot more energy than I do now.Mm-hmm. But, um, but yeah, so as we've grown, you know, we have one, um, social media person who goes, gets content and posts everything, and, and then we have one person who does just pr. Um, community events and like website. So, as we've grown, we just wanted someone just strictly focused on social media, engaging with the families, doing contests, um, and yeah, it's been good.Michael: It's been good. Cool, cool. So then you don't, like when it comes to the health fairs, right, you don't really give out any, I guess, incentives or anything like that for people to. Mary: Oh yeah. So we do put them in a drawing. I think. Like if you book an appointment on the spot at the event, um, I think your name goes into a drawing for like a basket full of like dental stuff.I think like a toothbrush and all of that. But um, and I think we have like one of those wheels mm-hmm. That you spin that gives away. So we do like little fun things like that, but, um, but we don't have, I don't think like a coupon or, or anything. Yeah. It's just more, um, our biggest goal is to book the appointment.Mm-hmm. So then when we have our marketing team out there, you know, their key performance indicator is how many appointments did you book? Mm-hmm. You know, and that's how we know Michael: how they do. And they normally show up or is it like a no show or like what's the percentage? Um, Mary: I think they come, I mean, I don't know exactly the metrics, but I mean, I don't think that there has been an issue with the no-shows.I mean, our cancellation rate is pretty low cuz we do like a pretty good job of making sure we have a confirmed schedule. Of course people get sick, you know, and kids get sick in, in that just happens. But, um, but this is part of like your systems, right? And processes, like how firm is your confirmation? schedule D being done, right.And then if a few days before you have all these holes in the schedule, how are you gonna fill it, you know? Mm-hmm. So we have people in place that really make sure that we have, a productive schedule, like different avenues. Gotcha. Okay. Michael: Interesting. So then if you could, from the moment, let's talk about from the moment you decided to open your startup Right.Till today. Right. What's been some of your biggest struggles or pitfalls?Mary: I wouldn't really call them struggles cause I look at every, like, I feel like I am super growth mindset where I really don't stay down wi on something that bothers me because, I think being an entrepreneur, you know, things are gonna happen. Maybe the first time, like, so I'll use this as an example.The first time I had to let someone go, I couldn't sleep the night before at all. Mm-hmm. Like I was nervous, I was like crying. I wrote this long letter about how much I love this person and how I'm just so heartbroken. And then I remember when I let her go, I said, oh, you know, I'm so sorry. I have to let you go.And she was just like, okay. And she walked out the door. And I was, I was heartbroken that she wasn't as emotional as I was. I spent way too much time over this breakup. Then she did. Right. So going back to that and thinking of like where I am today, I've realized that in order to be successful, you have to just.That things are not always gonna go as planned, and that it's gonna be like a rollercoaster. No matter you're in business for five years or 25 years, there's always gonna be things that happen that are not going to be the way that you anticipated, but it's, that shouldn't predict. where you go, right?Like, that should just be a part of the journey. Say, okay, this is, there's gonna be something that happens. Like everything is smooth sailing right now, but I know in the next three months it could be completely different. How am I as a leader of my organization gonna respond to any of these, obstacles that come along the way?And so I never dwell on anything, like if somebody leaves or if something happens, I always say, well, nobody died. Right. Knock on wood. Yeah. Okay. How are we gonna fix this moving forward so that we don't make the same mistake again? What, like how do we drop the ball on this patient that they're not happy with us?How do we put that into our system so that way we make sure that we. got that eye or crossed that T and so we problem solve quickly and then move on. You know, we don't really dwell on anything becau um, anything that happened in the past, because the more time you spend doing that, the more you kind of just bring yourself down and you're not able to focus on your future.And then there's so many people that rely on you to be in that right mindset, you know, like, yeah. Michael: I like that. Okay. Problem solve quickly, right? Yes. And that's, I think, uh, I know for me sometimes, um, same thing like where you're like, oh my God, you dwell and dwell and then you're, you know what I mean? But you grew out of it, you know, so that's great.Oh, yeah. Fast. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. When it comes to you feeling personally burnt out How do you cope with that Mary: de. there's this one exercise that I do at least quarterly. I try to do it monthly, but it's really simple and it helps keep me in a right mindset. But basically I write down everything I do from morning until night, like generally speaking.So like pack my kids lunch, check my email, check my slack. Uh, check in with people and my leadership team. And then I, I go through this whole list and I'm like, what is it that I don't like to do on this list? Like, what is it that I could delegate? So then, you know, for example, I wrote, right now what's on my list is interviewing doctors because I love, I loved doing it, but now I get so many resumes, it's like very time consuming.But I know that, I mean, it's not something that I don't like to do, don't get me wrong, but It's not my favorite thing. It's kind of like a, you know. Yeah. Okay. And so then I put on here the name of the person who I'm gonna delegate that to, and then I start making sure that I have another doctor on my team sit with me on the interview, start training for that position, so then I could take that off my plate.So, I do get asked that a a lot like, oh, Mary, how do you do all of this? You know, like, you're a mom, you open practices, you do a mastermind group. So as a hobby, I do a mastermind group too at night, a couple a week, just to help other women who are having a hard time with, um, practice ownership.Right. But then I, it's because I delegate a lot, you know? Mm-hmm. Like I have a few personal assistants. I have a lot of leadership team that helps run the operations of the business to where I really don't have to be here. you know, I could go for a few weeks and everything be fine, and it'll probably be even better than what I'm here because I have a lot to say and I take a lot of their time.But when I'm here is when the business is, you know, you know that people are happy and they're doing what, doing their job, what they're supposed to do, and your business is doing well. So it allows me to focus on the things that I really like to do because if you don't like doing something, you, you're taking away from things.Things that you could be doing that ultimately are probably, more beneficial to not only like your company, but to your family, right? Because you're doing things that really, that you really enjoy. And so that's how I do it. I delegate very well and I have a weekly focus and the focus is always who I need to hire that week to help me with something that I need to delegate off my.Michael: So are you always hiring? Mary: Um, right now it's a nanny Uhhuh. No. Cause it could change, right? Not the nanny and I, I actually just filled the other position. Another assistant, like personal assistant? Yeah. Michael: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So then it's interesting you say that you have a mastermind, right? You have an organization, multiple practices, right?Teams, all that stuff you have to deal with. what was the other thing you said? So Mary: I, oh, I'm a mom. You know, Michael: you're a mom. I'm my husband. Ok. You, you, your husband's another, he's listening to this. He is like, yeah, yeah. No, but, uh, so you do it a lot. I mean, do you ever, I guess, and I know you do, I mean a lot of us do, but have that like dad guilt or mom guilt kind of thing, and then, or do you not?Mary: I think I used to. But I think that every per parent, right, whether they're mom or dad, has a different level of time and attention with their children that works for them. You know? So I have friends that spend, that are stay-at-home moms, and they spend their entire day with their children. And they love it.And then I have some that spend all the days with their kids and they're screaming at them all day and they're like, it's so stressful. I don't know why I'm doing this. I need to go back to work. And so for me, my kids come home from after school care or sports or whatever it is, at 5:00 PM and so 5 36 sometimes, and I only have like two or three hours with them a day.But during that two or three hours, it's like quality time. Hmm. You know, so, My take on that is, is the time that you spend with your kids, that's quality time, that's good for them and good for you. means that you have that nice balance, you know? But if you say, oh, well this person is spending like from 3:00 PM to 8:00 PM and you know, on social media, they're going to all the games and they're, Doing all this stuff, you compare yourself to other people, then you're never gonna feel like you're enough.I mean, there's always gonna be someone who's, more, has more practices, who's, more attractive or who is better than you, right? Or like that you feel like, um, you wanna be like, but if you compare yourself to other people, you're always gonna feel like you are not doing enough. So I just try to say, Hey, you know, Everybody has their level of work that works for them.And for the normal person, probably how much I work is gonna be way too much, you know? But for me, I love it and I think it keeps, like, I've always worked like I do since I was a little girl. And I, and I love what I do, so I don't feel like it's work. I really enjoy it. But when it comes to being a mom, if I were to spend morning to night with my kids, I really think that I would go crazy.You know I do. Yeah. Yeah. Like when my husband's not home and I'm with them for the weekend by myself, I'm like, this is not fair. You're working and I'm at home with Michael: these, these kids. No, I get you. Mary: Yeah. So I think it's just different. You can't compare. Michael: No. Yeah. Okay. I, I love that. I love that. I feel like sometimes we get boggled down into, like what you said, that comparison mode where you're looking on social media, you start comparing and you're like, huh, I should, but then in reality, you're like, if I do it more than three hours, It's not gonna be quality time with 'em, you know?It's just gonna be, they're gonna be like, what Mary: are you doing? Get down. Michael: You're just watching them watch YouTube the whole time, and you're like, all right, yeah, just watch YouTube right now, you know, kind of thing. Awesome, Mary, I appreciate that. If anybody had any questions or concerns or anything like that, where can they reach out to you?Mary: Um, you can find me instagram@drmaryfam.com or dr mary fam.com, Dr. Mary fam. That's, that's where I met you, Michael, or my email, dr mary lollipop dental.com. Happy to help Michael: awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely reach out to Mary and Mary.Thank you for being with us. It was a pleasure, and we'll hear from you soon. Of course. Mary: All right, thank you.‍‍‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍‍Guest: Stephanie NivinskusBusiness Name: SizzleForce MarketingCheck out Stephanie's Media:‍Website: https://SizzleForce.comSchedule an Appointment: https://www.SizzleForce.com/scheduleLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanienivinskus‍Other Mentions and Links:StarbucksQuicksilverNational Football LeagueCox CommunicationsForbesEntrepreneur MagazineAbsolutely Unforgettable: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Creating a Heart-Centered Brand and Standing out in a Noisy WorldCPAP Machine - Continuous Positive Airway Pressure MachineNierman Practice Management‍‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Your offline interactions AND online followup with patients should both make them feel heard and appreciated.It's great to have a sterile office, but having a sterile vibe isn't always inviting. Try adding a sense of warmth to your practice feel!Always think from the perspective of the expert, rather than the salesperson when educating patients.People are not excited about giving up their email or phone number! Provide a valuable incentive for offering their information.You cannot optimize something that isn't well documented.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Stephanie, how's it going? Going Stephanie: great. Thanks for having me, Michael: Michael. No, thank you for being on. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located? Stephanie: I am in San Diego, California. Michael: Oh, man. Stephanie: Did you guys get any snow? No, but we got a lot of hail and we had hail ball fights, hail ball in my front yard.Cause we were so excited. Like literally we packed together. Hail. Yeah. And maybe hail balls, . And my kids and the neighbor kids, we had hail ball fights. It was amazing. Michael: Is that, does that hurt more or, Stephanie: well, I don't, I wouldn't say we had enough to do damage. We just had enough to have a lot of fun. . Michael: Gotcha, gotcha.I like that hill ball fight. Yeah. Interesting. All right. So Stephanie, can you tell us a little bit about your past, your present? How'd you get to where you Stephanie: are? . Yeah. So I have been in marketing going on three decades, which is crazy. Mm-hmm. . I started, my career in 1995 and, started working, free.com, and working in the newspaper industry and, and then.com became a thing, and then wireless became a thing and my career path kept unfolding in different versions of market.For for those different types of media. And then in 2009, I went out on my own and I started my company Sizzle Force Marketing, and now I run a fractional C M O service, which basically means a part-time chief marketing officer and a full implementation team for all of your day-to-day marketing needs.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. What are some things that you. because you said you did pre.com, right? Yeah. Can you, and I'm Stephanie: still alive, . Michael: And I'm still alive. So what are some things where you're like, sting haven't changed since the pre.com, till today? Stephanie: You know what? The way the human mind works has not changed. , right? Mm-hmm.humans still wanna be cared about. They still wanna feel like they're understood. They still wanna feel like they have hope for a solution for whatever pains ail them. You know, all of those things, humans at their core haven't changed just the way that we communicate with them has, right? Mm-hmm.meaning the tools that we use to communicate with them, but at, at our essence, we all still want the same. , Michael: which is co what? Communication or Stephanie: Yeah, just empathy. Mm-hmm. , right? We wanna feel heard, we wanna feel understood, we wanna feel valued, we wanna feel like we matter, like we're appreciated. All of those things.And, and those are things that are super relevant in a dental practice, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . If, if I go to the dentist and, you know, it's a, it's a kind of a rougher on the edges, experie. Right. And I don't feel appreciated. Like, here, let me give you an example. Yesterday. Mm-hmm. . Yesterday I had a phone, a telehealth appointment with my doctor.Okay? Now, mind you, I pay out the nose for my insurance, right? Just every month. It's painful. It hurts my, it hurts my heart, right? Well, last week I had something going on, and so I requested an appointment. I had to wait six. to get a telephone appointment, not even a face-to-face appointment, okay? Mm-hmm.six days rolls around. That's yesterday. I finally get the call from the doctor and I ask her my question and she gives me an answer. Then I said, oh, can I ask you another question about something else? And she goes, I don't have time. I only have 10 minutes for this call. And I'm like, I had to wait six days for a 10 minute slot with my doctor.that was a rough around the edges experience. Okay. Mm-hmm. , and very disappointing. And I did not feel appreciated at all as a customer, despite the fact that I give them like 2,500 bucks a month for my insurance. Mm-hmm. , right? Like, oh my gosh. Well, thank you. How much do you make an hour if ? Yeah. You know?Right. And I think any, whether, whether you're a a doctor, like for, you know, a general practitioner kind of doctor, or you're a doctor of dentistry, right? Or you're literally any other type of professional people want to feel cared about, heard and appreciated. Mm-hmm. . And yesterday that doctor was a big fat fail.Michael: Yeah. Yeah. No d So then, , are you gonna continue with that doctor, Stephanie: or Well, well, the problem is, well, yeah, but that's a whole other issue. with the healthcare system. . Michael: Gotcha. No, that, but it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, you're right. We do want, so today you said that doesn't change, right? Humans still want to be cared about.They want to have that empathy. How can we utilize that today with the technology that we have to, I guess, grow our patient's? Yeah, Stephanie: numbers. . Yeah. I, I think I think that what we have to remember is while technology is incredible, automations are, you know, really powerful behind everything. It still goes back to h to H, right?Human to human. Mm-hmm. , right? We need to utilize these tools to communicate compassion and empathy. So, you know, how can we do that? Lots of, there's lots of different ways. everything from. Well, let me give you an example of my dentist. I think he's a marketing master. Okay? So how many dentists have I been to over the years where I literally felt like a number and it was like, oh my gosh, just get me in, clean my teeth and get me out.I don't wanna be here. I don't like you, I don't like what you're doing in my mouth, and I would like to leave now. Okay? Mm-hmm. , pretty much every dentist I've ever had until, until I met this guy. All right. , he actually makes going to the dentist fun. And I, I'm not even kidding you, my kids, my husband, myself, we're all like, we like almost get excited to go to the dentist now, which is the weirdest thing for us, right?Mm-hmm. , the way that he does that in the office is he creates a really just kind of happy, uplifting experience, okay? When you walk into his office, first of all, , his decor is bright and colorful. He, he doesn't have these muted colored old chairs from 1983. You know, he's got bright and colorful paintings on the wall.And he actually, the name of the company is Scripps Rock Dental, and he has like this life size statue of. and he has a choke box and he's like really into music. That's his thing, right? So you go in, he's playing super cool music, like music that you, you wanna bop to. Yeah. Okay. Right. And yeah, he just makes that experience fun.The second thing that he does is his front office staff is more like a front office concierge. . Okay. I feel like when I go into that dentist, a, they know my name even though they have a bajillion patients. Right. It, it's not that they necessarily remember my name, but they've looked three minutes before I walk in the door at who's coming in and then they say, hi, Stephanie.Good to see you again. . You know? Yeah. They just make me feel seen. Then. , you know, it's everything from, oh, please have a seat. Would you like some water while you're waiting? Dentist will be with you in just a couple of minutes. I feel very cared for. I get escorted back to my chair.When I go back into the office and you know, they ask me, are you comfortable? You know, would you like to watch something on tv? Would you like the headphones? Would you like to wear these special glasses? . Right? It's, it literally, I feel like they're, they are a concierge. Okay. So it, it starts kind of with the offline experience, right?But then if you want to turn around and figure out, well, how can you leverage technology to make people feel cared about and seen and whatnot? It's more of what happens after the appointment, okay? Mm-hmm. , it's the message that comes. The evening after you've had your appointment, the email or the text that you get from the dentist saying, Hey Stephanie, how are you feeling tonight?I just wanted to make sure you're not in any pain, wanted to make sure that you know, your teeth feel good, or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. , shoot me back a quick text to let me know you're doing well, right? All of a sudden, I feel so cared about. I'm like, oh my gosh. How many people did he see? and he's just asking how I'm doing.Maybe it's a couple days after if it was a more substantial procedure that I had done and it wasn't just a cleaning or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. , maybe you get a root canal and it's a few days later and it's like, Oh, hey Stephanie. If you're feeling any sensitivity in your teeth tonight, I recommend just having some soup for dinner.Don't try and chew anything that's gonna hurt your teeth, blah, blah, blah. This can be delivered through text. It can be delivered through emails. It can be delivered in a ton of different automated ways where you're leveraging the technology. But you are practicing human to human. . Yeah, Michael: I like that. I like that.You're right. You're caring, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Awesome, awesome. That's really, really interesting. I love seeing your input and your point of view, you know what I mean, when it comes to someone who's not so totally involved in the clinical side of dentistry. Not at Stephanie: all. Yeah, no, I, I speak as a, I speak on behalf of the people,Michael: I, so let, let me ask you then just two, two questions, and then after that we'll go into, The, the workshop. Right? But I wanted to ask you right now, what do you hate about dentistry or dislike? Stephanie: What do I dislike about dentistry? Well, I dislike the experiences I had until I met the Marketing Master of Dentistry, right?Mm-hmm. that I go to now, I disliked the very clinical. Feel of the dental experience, you know, walking into this sterile, not in a way. Obviously the dentist needs to be a sterile environment, but I I'm saying a sterile environment in terms of there's no warmth to it, there's no care, there's no there's no empathy really.And that's how most dental experiences that I. have been, right? Mm-hmm. . So, yeah, I, I never like that, you know, I mean, just, I don't know. I don't, I don't think people put, maybe they, they put so much effort into, becoming really good at the work that they do, that they forget about the customer experience.Mm-hmm. . And it's a huge reason. Why there's such, you know, churn in the dental industry, right? While, you know, if, if, if it's just a transaction, if I just come there to get my cleaning every six months and I don't feel cared about, well, why on earth would I ever remain loyal to you? I have lots of choices.Every other day I get, you know, Big postcard in the mail with some new dentist offering me a cleaning, come in and you can only pay $29. Well, if I don't feel like I've had an experience with you that's worthy of returning to, why would I not just shop on price, right? Mm-hmm. , I would, I, I mean that's, see that's the thing is like if you don't differentiate your practice, people will make decisions based on price alone because you're just like everybody else.Michael: Yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. And then what do you love about dentistry? ? What do Stephanie: I love about dentistry? On behalf of the people, I will say I love the fact that, when I have been in pain, you get me out of.Michael: Got you. Wait, actually y yeah, that's true. But you're, your dentist. Your dentist. What do you love about the, what they do? I know you told, you told me that they make you feel warm empathy. Right, right. Anything else on that? There's Stephanie: a very neighborly feel to the dentist that I go to now, and let me tell you this, we have dental insurance.He's not covered in our. We pay for dental insurance that we don't even use. We pay out of pocket for him, and he is not cheap. And we do it because the experience is that good. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, there's a very neighborly feel To his place, you know, I mean, we all live in our own neighborhoods, right?Mm-hmm. and you know, I know he sponsors the little league group and the little soccer players. And you know, here I am, I'm a soccer mom, and so I'm like, oh, I like that. He is like supporting the kids, you know, . Yeah. Yeah. , he does things around Halloween, like, bring in all your candy that you collected and I'll trade it for prizes.You know, so he gets kids not eating so much candy and, but they get cool prizes instead, you know. Hmm. Okay. You know, Michael: just things like that. Yeah. Someone who's involved in the community neighborly, right? Like you said. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Interesting. So, , Stephanie, what can a dentist do today to improve their marketing and business?Stephanie: So I am a huge believer in something that is called the customer value journey. Mm-hmm. , and I think there are about 0.001% of dentists who even know what that is. So let me explain it. Yeah. It is a seven step journey. identifies every step a customer takes from the moment they learn you exist to the moment they become a raving fan.Like whoever thought I'd be sitting here talking about my dentist because he's that cool. I, if you had sold me, I would be doing that today. If you had said that to me five years ago, I would've been like, you're, what are you on, you know, . Well, I would never do that. Okay, well, okay. I do it because he has his journey figured out.Okay, so there you want me to talk to you about the seven steps? Yeah, let's dive into that. Okay. So, the first step is awareness and engagement, right? So you need to figure out, you need to document this stuff. How are you going to. The marketplace, meaning your target market in wherever location you are, how are you going to make them aware that you exist?And then what are you going to do to foster engagement with them? Okay. The second step is what are you gonna do to get them on your list and get permission from them to email them or text them or whatnot? And this is. only after they come in and they're a patient of yours? Mm-hmm. . Okay. What can you do before that?Step three is the convert phase. It's. , what is the offer that you are going to make to them to create a, a, a first level transaction? That's where a lot of people will do that. You know, $29 cleaning offer. Mm-hmm. , that's a good conversion offer because it's a, a very low priced entry point to expose somebody to your brand and your experience, and then you move them up from there, right?Mm-hmm. into being a profitable patient. . The fourth step is the excite phase, right? What are you going to do to create a memorable experience like my dentist has, right? Mm-hmm. and, and transform the experience from a nice to have to a must have, right? Transforming somebody like me who will pay out of pocket more than I ever thought I would pay to go to the dentist.because I like to be there, . Yeah. And he fixes my teeth. Right. All right. Step five is the ascend stage. And this is where you're really maximizing every opportunity you have to make a profit, right? So what does it look like? You know, maybe somebody starts by, they come in and, and they get that one time cleaning, right?But, , what does the rest of the journey look like? Okay, well, they're gonna actually need a cleaning twice a year. So maybe the next thing that you sell to them is some sort of membership. Mm-hmm. , right? Where they can come in and if they're a member, they get their appointments prescheduled, then they get some sort of little discount on it.Okay. What's the next level? Well, maybe it's the membership with A teeth whitening, right? Or the membership with the teeth whitening and something else, right? And then it goes up and up from there, right? You wanna think about what you can sell them in increasingly profitable segments. Okay? So at the very top of this, you wanna think about like, what is my very, very best patient?the patients I make the most money off of. What are they buying, right? And so you create offers at all these different levels so that it, it's upsells and cross cells are pre-planned as opposed to haphazardly thrown out when you remember, okay? Mm-hmm. . The next stage is called the advocate stage.And it's what are you gonna do to get social proof? We all know we live in a social proof world. We all know that people are gonna check out reviews and whatnot. Mm-hmm. , you can let the marketplace control that or you can control that. It's very dangerous to let the marketplace control that because if they have anything that makes them unhappy or maybe their experience with you that day was perfectly fine.but they got in a fight with their husband after their appointment. So now they're just in a bad mood. Mm-hmm. . And they're gonna go on some review site and leave a skating review just cuz they're in a bad mood. Right? So you have to figure out what are you gonna do to make sure that you're controlling positive social proof, getting out there.And then finally the last stage is what are you gonna do to incentivize your patients to become your raving? And to send you a bunch of referrals. Okay, so there's seven steps, awareness and engagement. Subscribe, convert, excite, ascend, advocate, and promote. And each of these steps needs to be very carefully flushed out into a document because you cannot optimize something that you have not document.Michael: I like that. Okay. If we can rewind on some of these Yeah. Yep. And dive a little bit deeper. so for example, and I'm sure you might hear this sometimes, like number four, right? The excite phase, like you wanna create a memorable experience. Mm-hmm. how. , I guess. Was the doctor you have now different from other ones?What was the experience where you in the chair or in the moment you were this is, this is, he's doing number four. Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, it didn't just start in the chair, that's the thing. Mm-hmm. started long before I got in the chair. It started from the moment I made the appointment and how pleasant they were, and you know, Conversational and friendly and neighborly, right to the moment.I walked into the to the dental office and I was greeted by name. I was escorted back to the chair. You know, it's, it's like the four seasons of dentistry, right? Mm-hmm. I think this is like, it's funny. To the moment, you know, I'm in the chair and they're, you know, offering me the special classes and they're offering me headphones and they're offering me to watch a show and, you know, whatever.Frequently checking on me, are you comfortable? Does anything hurt? Blah, blah, blah. To the moment I was done. Stephanie, how can we make this easy for you? Would you just like us to bill your account, or would you like to go ahead and take care of your payment today? , to after the appointment, the aftercare emails.Right. The memorable experience does not start in the chair. Mm-hmm. starts long before you get in the chair, and it continues to long after you're out of the chair. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So from contact 0.1, right? Like Yeah. Or even before that, even the, I guess number one, awareness and engagement. , what could a dentist do for number one to create great awareness and engagement?Is that just like, okay, let's just send out Facebook ads mailers or, Stephanie: yeah. I mean, those are both things that can happen, right? Mm-hmm. , and there's a lot of different ways. You've got organic marketing and then you've got paid marketing, right? So, organic meaning, you know, , you can grow a lot of awareness if you have, if you're young, in your practice especially, you can grow tremendous awareness by being on TikTok.Mm-hmm. , right? Being super active on TikTok, that doesn't cost you anything. It costs you time, it costs you creativity, right? Mm-hmm. . But it doesn't literally cost you any money to create, tos, and it can totally grow awareness for. . You could do Facebook ads, you could, you know, you could do ads on any of the social platforms.You could do direct mail, you could do oh goodness. So there's so many different things. You could partner up with an orthodontist. . Right. And, you know, assuming that your offices are somewhat close together, you know mm-hmm. , maybe the orthodontist has been in, in practice a little bit longer than you, and you create some sort of referral campaign with them, right? where they will send out an email blast to everybody on their list saying, Hey, we wanna introduce you to our new neighbor. , you know, Dr. So-and-so, we're really excited to be in the same plaza with them. Be, you know, because they have these skills, right? Mm-hmm. and they endorse for you. Okay. So yeah, there's, there's so many different ways to do that, but there's a few ideas.Okay. Michael: Yeah. So those are the, like the, the platforms and the marketing mediums we can use. And then when it comes to option two or number two in this I guess like value, like this workshop basically, right? This whole. Yeah, get them on your list and get permission to email and text them. How do we do that?How do we, I mean, I guess in the sense of like, do we offer an incentive in these ads and then that's how they click in? Is that Stephanie: what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. So, you wanna think about, People are not usually super excited about giving away their personal information. Mm-hmm. . So you have to give them an incentive to do it, right?No, nobody woke up this morning and said, I wanna get on all the email and text lists so I can be bombarded with offers all day. Mm-hmm. . Right? So you need to think about, well, what valuable contents can you give in exchange for getting that information and permission to follow up with? So this is where it could be something, it, it could be a discount on something.It could be you could create some little package like you know, I don't, I don't know what your margins are in dentistry on the fancy toothpaste that y'all sell, right? But like, you know, maybe if you have an awesome margin on that. , maybe you can give away little little fancy toothpaste for sensitive teeth.Right. I think I paid $40 for toothpaste. Michael: Really? Okay. Cuz I was gonna ask you, like, let me ask you, Stephanie, what would, what would make you, like you or your family be like, here's my email, here's my, here's my number. You know, like what incentive would. , Stephanie: Well for me it would have something to do with teeth whitening.Okay. Yeah. Because that's something that's just on my mind. I'm like, I need to get my teeth whitened, you know? Yeah. So if, if there was something, you know, and I don't even know how the process works, but maybe if there was an opportunity to come in and. Let's say it's a multi-step process, right? And they said, you know what?Come in. We're gonna do step one of the teeth whitening process for you at no cost. We just wanna offer this to you. Mm-hmm. , I'd be like, yeah. Oh, okay. Here you go. Here's my info. Yeah. Right. I would do that. Now, here's the thing is that sometimes people will be like, well, that's something I sell. I'm not gonna give that away for free.Are you nuts? and I'm like, well, this is what we call in the old days, a loss leader. Okay? This is where you are giving away something that you could sell. But if it's valuable enough to somebody like me, I will give you something that's really valuable to you, meaning my contact information, okay? Mm-hmm.So you're asking for something that's really valuable to me. My privacy. . Mm-hmm. , give me something that's valuable to me in return. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And if you're not willing to do that, if, if you're just like, Nope, I just wanna get your info, well, you know, good luck getting any legitimate info.People might write something down, but it's not gonna be valid. They're not ever gonna look at it. Right. Michael: Yeah, no, I I I love that. I love how you. , I'll put that out there because it's true. Like we, it's um, it's also the first transaction, right. That you're ever like kind of seeing with them. But I agree.And when it comes to the phase five here, or step number five, ascend. Mm-hmm. maximize every opportunity you have to make a profit pre-plan plan. So can you break this down to us? Let's just say, cuz this happens in dentistry, right? I'm not gonna lie. Like, sometimes we're like, okay, we gotta, let's see if we can like you.have them, let's push teeth whitening on them. Right? Or let's, let's push, uh, maybe they need instead of, um, I don't know, a crown where we can get implants or something. Right. Like just upsell. Mm-hmm. , how does this work when it comes to pre-planning? So do we pre-plan this? Like, let's just say this month of March we want to do upsell our teeth.Widenings, right? um, and they can be trays, like bleach trays. Mm-hmm. , how would. recommend we draw this out. Stephanie: So you, you could change it every month but you certainly don't have to. Mm-hmm. , I would think about, I, I would think about what your core flagship offer is to begin with, and then what logically makes sense as the next step.So it's not as much, I think, when. , quote unquote pushing things. Mm-hmm. , you're not really serving your patients, right? Mm-hmm. Instead, think of it like the expert that you are. I am a doctor of dentistry and I know to get optimal dental health or , however you guys say it, , right? This is what really needs to happen, you know, to have a smile.you see a reflection of in the mirror and you feel good about right, and to, you know, have teeth that last through your lifetime and and whatnot. This is really what needs to happen. So think about it from an expert perspective as opposed to from a sales perspective. and the sales will naturally follow.Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. . Michael: Yeah, I get you. So then you mentioned core flagship offers. Should we all have like a specific Stephanie: offer always, or, yeah. I mean, but everybody does just inherently. Mm-hmm. , it's, it's probably a teeth cleaning, so Michael: like 50 or like free or like a 50% off teeth cleaning kind of thing.Or like, new, new patient examined x-rays and teeth cleaning a bundle, like something like that is what you. , Stephanie: you could do that. Yeah. The, as you wanna think of the ascension phase as like a ladder with different rungs on it. Okay, so the bottom of the ladder is that core flagship offer, right? It's the, the teeth cleaning everybody needs.Well, what's the next step up from that? That would be a really good idea for people to also, , right? Maybe it's okay, we'll come in and get a teeth cleaning. But then really for optimal dental health, you should be using this electric toothbrush at home and this special whitening toothpaste. Mm-hmm.So, so we're gonna have an upsell for that. Okay. Not because you're just trying to get all the money out of me, but because you're serving. . Okay. You're serving me and, and you're telling me things I don't know. I will tell you again, going back to my master market or dentist. Okay. I used a good old fashioned $2 toothbrush for 45 years of my life.Mm-hmm. . Okay. Never thought twice about it. Then one day I went in and he goes, you know, you brush your teeth too. And I was like, how's that even possible? He goes, I don't know. I think you're taking your aggression out on your teeth . And I'm like, really? You know? And he goes, yeah, well, and it's actually causing this problem because that's why you're having this issue and that issue.And the other thing that I, which was part of my complaint when I got in the chair, right? Like, okay, I need you to look at this cuz it's really sensitive, it's kind of bothering me, blah, blah, blah. And so in. Act of service to me. He said, yeah, you know that problem you brought up, well, it would be helped if you used this electric toothbrush and this toothpaste.Now, for all I know, he is blowing smoke at me and he is just selling to me, but he's real good at it. , if that's the case. . I don't think that is the case though, because I got sucked into it. I bought the really expensive special toothbrush, then I bought one for my husband, then I bought one for each of my kids, okay?Mm-hmm. , whatever, however many hundreds of dollars later, you know, with our fancy toothbrushes. I can tell you, we go into the dentist now and the hygienist will be like, oh, your teeth look fantastic, Stephanie. You know, and I'm. . Well, that's because I have my fancy toothbrush. Michael: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.Okay, so it's about serving, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's the part where we have to pre-plan, right? Not so much like, I guess horizontal, where it's like, all right, this month we're gonna do teeth whining. This month we're gonna do toothbrushes. This month we're gonna do fluoride. Right? It's not that. It's more like the ladder, like you mentioned.Yep. Yeah. Stephanie: Okay. Yeah, and always, always, always be service minded because if you're just out there, I mean, I, you know, when you asked me earlier, what do you hate about dentists? Okay. I will tell you, I had many, many experiences in the past where I would go to a dentist that was on my plan with my insurance and.it, it really did, it did not feel like they were really looking out for my best interest. It did feel like they were just selling me on stuff, right? Hmm. Oh, well, you know, you need to do this and you need to do this. And like, I can tell you, the guy that I go to now there has been more than one occasion where he said, well, you know, I see something starting here, but you don't need to address it yet.Just you. We don't need to, you know, fill this cavity or, or whatever, whatever it is. We just need to keep an eye on it. Okay. That makes me feel like I can trust him. He's not just like, oh, I see something, let's get a root canal started, Michael: you know? Yeah. Makes sense. Okay. Interesting. And then number seven, incentivize patients to become a raving fans.Mm-hmm. . Break this down for us if you can, because I know sometimes we can't, we can't say like, here's a hundred bucks if you leave as a review. Right. So how can we incentivize patients to become raving fans? Stephanie: Yeah. You. it. This is different from getting reviews. This is the, the promotion stage is about getting people basically to spread the word about you more directly to a friend or family member as opposed to the general public leaving a Yelp review, okay?Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I, there there are lots of different things that you can do e everything from, you know what, if you send us three new patients, , we'll give you a free teeth whitening experience. Okay? Or if you send us a new patient, you know, we'll send you out to dinner at such and such a restaurant, right?It, it doesn't have to be, you know, you wanna think about, okay, how much, what is the lifetime value of a new patient to me in my. . Okay. The lifetime value is far beyond that initial cleaning cost. Mm-hmm. , right? Let's say it's, you know, well twice a year at whatever, 80 bucks to get a cleaning, well, let's say a hundred cause I can't do math.Okay? So $200 a year. And that's just for cleanings. That's not for all the other things, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I'm sure. . I would think a lifetime value would be at least five figures of a customer. Mm-hmm. . So if you're gonna make $10,000 plus off of one patient in their lifetime, would you be able to spare a $50 gift card to a restaurant?I think so. That's like stupid math. Yeah. . So we, we need to be thinking more long-term than short-term. And if you provide that memorable experience, people will come back. They will come back, they will want to come back. They will get on podcasts and talk about their great dentist . Michael: Yeah. That's interesting.I like that. When it comes to you, Stephanie, what incentive would you. Like you and your family, what are you thinking when you're like that? What if he sent me that right now? Mm-hmm. I'd find I'd make uh, I'd go get three people right now. Stephanie: Well, for me it would be a spa day, . Ah, okay. Okay. But that might be a little weird coming from the dentist.So why would that be weird? Why? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Why would that be weird? That would be weird. I don't know. Maybe cuz he's a dude. I don't know. There's something weird about it to me. It just doesn't sit right. So other things that would incentivize me, you know, just things that I might not otherwise treat myself to, right?Mm-hmm. , and again, kind of going back to what I said before, that teeth whitening thing. Now that wouldn't always incentivize me, but it's on my mind right now. Mm-hmm. , I'm like, I wanna get my teeth white. And if they said, Hey, you send us three new patients, I would call all my neighbor. I'd be like, Hey Susan, you need to go to the dentist.Yeah, , and you need to go see him and tell him I sent you. And then she'd be like, why is he so great? Okay. Well, I would tell her why he's so great, because he really is, I wouldn't just do it to get whatever, right? Mm-hmm. , I would do it because I believe it, and then she would go and I would get three people, and then I would walk away and have my teeth whiten for free.And I would be thrilled to do that. So if any of you guys that are listening would like to whiten my teeth for free, making an offer, Michael: making an offer, she's in San Diego. . Okay. That's interesting. But what, let me ask you this. Would you prefer more something clinical like that, a teeth whining, or would you prefer something more?a spa day, but it can say like, Hey, it's coming from the team, or it's coming from all of us, thank you. Or something like that. Or, or something not clinical. Stephanie: Hmm.Well, it feels like more of a treat if it's not clinical. Okay. Okay. So it feels it's, it's a little more exciting and fun to me. Mm-hmm. . , you know, just, you know, here you work hard, you should go get a massage on us. That's a treat that not everybody affords into their daily budget. Right? Yeah. But most people really enjoy that.Just getting a timeout. Mm-hmm. and, you know, we live in this crazy world where we all work too much and, you know, run around like crazy people. Having an excuse to take a time out and somebody else foot the bill is pretty Michael: nice. Yeah, interesting. That's really, really good insight. Awesome, Stephanie.So any other piece of advice you like to give our listeners or our doctors listening, Stephanie: I just wanna go back to fleshing out your journey. Flush this out on paper. Do not keep this information in your head. Flush it out on paper with your staff. Right. And. , watch what happens when you logically walk people through this journey, okay?If you don't, if you don't ever document this, there are a lot of people who will get lost along the way, and every lost patience is a lost opportunity. It's lost revenue, okay? This is how you don't just get customers in the door, but this is how you keep customers for life. , and that's what you want, right?Yeah. Michael: Awesome. So thank you so much for being with us, Stephanie. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Stephanie: Sure. Yeah. Our company is sizzle force.com. Sizzle like Bacon force like me, the force be with you. Sizzle force.com. And if any of you would like to talk about digital marketing um, you can schedule an appointment by going to sizzle force.com/schedule.Love to talk Michael: to you. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely reach out to Stephanie, especially if you wanna pick your brain a little bit more about the, the journey that we've been talking about and also the digital marketing that she does for you guys. So go to Shawn's below for that.And Stephanie, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you. Thank you.‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: Simon ChardPractice Name: Rothley Lodge Dental PracticeCheck out Simon's Media:‍Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drsimonchard/‍‍Other Mentions and Links:PearlBACD - British Academy of Cosmetic DentistryAACD - American Academy of Cosmetic DentistryPärlaTime MagazineInterview about appearance on Dragon's DenCereciTeroBufferLaterThe Daily Stoic - Ryan Holiday and Stephen HanselmanHow to Invest - David RubensteinThe Almanack of Naval RavikantUnreasonable Hospitality - Will Guidara ‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:It's not about what you want to post on social media, it's about what your viewers want!Getting outside your comfort zone is the only way to grow. Keep this in mind when second guessing that next step!Success is never earned through constant succeeding, it is always achieved through failure instead. Failure is an important part of the process!If you're enjoying the journey along the way, then embrace your hard work and ambition!If your only driving factor is financial, the passion will eventually fade. Be sure to work towards your other fulfilling values and goals.There is a season of life where saying YES to all opportunities can help you grow your network. Don't forget about the season of saying NO to opportunities to prioritize your values though.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: simon, how's it going? Very well, mate. Thank you for having me. No, man, thank you for being on. We truly appreciate it. If you don't mind me asking, where are you Simon: located? I live in Sur, so just south of London in the, in the suburbs.Michael: Okay. Did Simon: you grow up there or no? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've grown up in this area, so it's, it's a nice place to live. It's. Countryside, but it's about a half an hour commute into the center of London, so it's a nice mix of the, the, the busyness of the city alongside some nice outdoor lifestyle. Nice. Michael: If you don't mind me also asking, like you, where you're at right now, is that your home or is that your Simon: practice?Yeah, it's my home. It's my my dining. Michael: Guys, man, he's in a mansion. This is it. This is the west wings of his . This, I'm excited to have you on Simon. If you can tell us a little bit about your background. Tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you Simon: are today? Yeah, sure. I mean, I'll start at the beginning, I guess.So I'm, I'm from a, a family dentist, both my parents and dentists. My parents bought their clinic together six months before I was born. That's the same practice that my wife Megan and I bought from them back in 2017. So there's a sort of generational lineage of dentists there. I always joked that there was a, a, a mirror and probe in the cutlery draw when we were growing up.So it's yeah, sort of in the blood. So that was my path. I actually went and did a different degree before going into dentistry. So I did a, a degree in pharmacology, so in drugs first, and then did my training at Kings College London, in dentist. Basically as soon as I foundry, I found my passion.I found what I feel like I was meant to do. I never looked back. From that point. I was very lucky at Kings to have a, a variety of fantastic professors who sort of pushed you to compete. Even from an undergraduate sort of student level. And that meant that by the time I qualified as a dentist, I already had a pretty solid cv pretty solid sort of background of awards and prizes and experience, which meant that I could sort of hit the ground running when I qualified, Michael: man.And then you already had your own practice and then right now I know you got your hands in a lot of things. . I also follow Kyle. He's been on the podcast before Stanley, right? Talking about Pearl and everything. And so I saw you and I was like, they're out here doing a lot of moves, man. Like, so what do you got going on right now?Simon: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a busy, busy year. So yeah, obviously I run my own practice. It's a. Seven surgery practice with about 30 staff members now. So that's going very well. That's growing, growing rapidly. Primarily driven just through sort of organic social media and organic word of mouth. Not a lot of paid ads currently.I'm the president of the British Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, so that's the, the biggest academy of dentist in the uk. Similar obviously to the A A C D in the. . So I'm the youngest ever president of that academy. And I also own a uh, a co-owner. Plastic free next generation oral care brand called Parlor which is in all the major supermarkets and, and stores across the uk. yeah, is doing very well. And we've got our whole, whole team running that alongside it. And then recently, this last month, I won um, I was, yeah, voted. The dentist who's had the most impact in dentistry in the UK in 22 by Dentistry Magazine. So that was quite a nice award to win as well. Yeah.Michael: How does that work? do you, I guess, like submit or they just like randomly pick, you're just like, oh, I'm it, you just see your face on the thing or? Well, Simon: it, it, it wasn't even a, it's the first time they've done it. They've based it off the sort of Time Magazine person of the year award. Mm-hmm. , and.Uh, Because it didn't exist. There was nothing to apply for. They as a, as a committee of sort of industry experts, came together and, and analyzed all of the high profile individuals in the market. And very fortunately, and they're very grateful to say that they, they chose me, which is, yeah, it's nice yeah.I mean, running all these things, Cool. And it, and oftentimes it is really cool cause you get to win awards like that. And we've had some amazing experiences with with Parlor. Like we were on the dragons Den, which is Shark Tank in the uk. So we were on national TV with that. So it has, its amazing sort of really peaking exciting moments, but it's also, a lot of stress and spinning the plates can sometimes all go a bit crazy, especially as I've got two young kids as well.Throw that in the mix and it all gets a little bit saucy sometimes. . Michael: Ah, man. So you got a family too, real quick. Simon, how Simon: old are you? I'm 36. Okay, Michael: man. Yeah, you got a lot of, you know what I mean, like everything going on. And we'll dive into that in a little bit uh, later on in the episode. But if we could rewind a little bit, you did a degree in pharmacology.Why did you go that route? Simon: Initially. Strangely enough, I think I, I listened to my peers at school and there was this one kid who said, oh, you don't wanna do what your parents did. That you, that's really lame. For some reason, that stuck in my head. So I just always discounted dentistry as something I wanted to do.And then actually when I got to my first university to study in pharmacology, coincidentally, my, my roommate was training to be a dentist. And I saw the community that he had and the practicality of being able to use your hands alongside, science, which I've, I've always been sort of fairly good at.I sort of saw in that first term at university that really dentistry is what I should be doing. Thankfully in the UK you can complete your degree and then miss out the first year of dental school. Cause a lot of it's just sort of basic science. . And so basically I did a fast track into dentistry from there, which, which worked out really well.And, basically I did a lot of my partying in the first degree and then really got my head down and got to work on my dental degree, which for me worked, worked really well. Michael: Yeah. Okay, nice. So it's interesting you, did your parents by any chance say like, nah, Simon, like, I don't care what your friend said, like, trust me, we, this is a good setup right here or something?Or, or were they Yeah. Do what you. Simon: No, they were children. I mean, they, they, they never wanted to push me or my, my siblings into anything we didn't wanna do. So from that point of view um, they, they sort of let me make my own decision. I also think, to be honest, that I, if I had gone against, at that first degree level, my grades probably wouldn't have been good enough.I didn't, I wasn't parti. ambitious or academically talented at school? Cause I didn't really have any, any focus or any drive. And actually it was, it was when I'd started at dental school, that was the first time that really sort of felt that I found my groove and and I actually started excelling and yeah, won of these awards and came top clinically in the year.And so, I, I, I'm not a sort of serial, a serially successful. I wasn't at that stage a seriously successful individual. Whereas now, sort of I'm hyper ambitious and, and driven, which is yeah. Very different than I was as a teenager. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, I feel like that's um, once you found, right, this is what I wanna do, you went all in right.And became ambitious. So kind of like right. , you're like, I'm, I'm, I'm finding things that I want to do and I'm going all in. Right. And it's, it's making you, what's the downside of that? If, if you can let us know, like, Hey man, it's great to go all in, but then this could happen Simon: if there is a downside. Yeah, no, there's definitely a downside.I mean, I, funnily enough, my wife and I were talking about this on the phone as, as I was driving home from work that I just, I, I can't switch off. So there's always The next idea, the next business opportunity the next product that I'm creating with Parler, the next thing I wanna do to grow the practice.It's a constant state of progression and flux. And, my view on that is as long as you're enjoying the journey, then keep on driving and be as ambitious and shoot for the stars as as big as you wanna go. If you are grinding out and hating the journey, then sometimes enough is enough and you, you.You need to be grateful whilst being ambitious. And I think it's finding that balance between gratitude and ambition that's quite difficult for, for of type A driven entrepreneurial individuals. But I think for the, for the younger clinicians listening, I have this type, I, I don't think I made this up.I think I heard it somewhere, but let's just say for this, for this call, I made it up. Was that I said yes to everything in my twentie. And said no to everything in my thirties. And for me, that worked quite well because when I first qualified, I said yes to every opportunity that was presented to me, whether it be a speaking gig, doing lecturing going to an event where I didn't know anyone.It was really awkward and I really didn't wanna be there because I wasn't a naturally sociable individual at that stage. Whatever it was I just said, yes, yes, yes, yes. And what that meant was I just created this incredible network. I met so many people many of whom became future mentors or future employers because I worked in, in multiple different practices before coming in full-time to my own clinic.And so by saying yes to everything, I've got this incredibly broad experience. However, if you let that go of forever, then it becomes unmanageable and, and you. Especially when you have kids. So in my thirties, I've now tailored it right in and I'm very, very selective with what I say yes to. But I can only do that because I've got the I've built it from that solid foundation of a network of guys from industry as well as sort of high profile dentists and, and people sort of who were the movers and shakers of, of our industry, I guess.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So you mentioned about the journey. , you gotta enjoy the journey. Um, Make sure you, you love it. How do you know Simon, when you're just in a road bump in the journey and you're like, oh my God, this is a headache. I hate this. Or how do you know? It's like, I'm not enjoying it anymore at this point.Simon: Hmm. That's a difficult question. I mean, I, I, I think you've gotta know why you're doing things and. What your ambition really is. If, if you're just doing it for money, for example, then that will fade and you will, it will, you will lose your passion for it. If, if the only passion there is the financial recommendation, then I think it's very easy to get jaded then to lose, to lose that.It's a personal thing at the end of the day. I mean, some people love dentistry, some people hate dentistry. Every job has its pros and cons. And I think we're very fortunate to actually do something that is genuinely meaningful for our patients and that we get a lot of satisfaction from.But clearly it has a lot of a lot of negatives as well, because there's still such. Massive issue with mental health within the profession. So I think it's really important that, that people don't just keep on driving because they think they should love it. Maybe taking some time away. So actually create a bit of open head space and then coming back to it and seeing if you actually want to go back or if you wanna move away from it.Michael: Hmm. I like that. Creating open that space, right? Like have you had to do that where you're like, oh man, I need to take some time, sit here and really think. , am I gonna drop this or am I gonna keep this? Simon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, obviously I have, the beauty of dentistry is that you can. Toggle up and toggle down the number of days that you're working quite easily.So I've done that. Clinically, I only work three days a week clinically. Now, the other two days I'm working on sort of more entrepreneurial endeavors. And so I've found a, a lovely balance. Certainly if I was still working six days a week clinically now, I don't think I would've been enjoying my job half as much as I am doing now.. And even saying that sometimes it goes too far. I'm, I've got inbound emails coming in all the time, and if I'm in a three hour surgery placing implants, I'll come out and have 30 emails in my inbox. That's quite stressful, . and quite difficult to manage. So, I think it's important to create space the way I manage that.As I, as I try to travel as much as I can. Do, I try and block out times in my every month where. I'm just gonna be at home. I'm not gonna be doing any social stuff. And I'm just gonna be chilling with my family. And then around every six to eight weeks, I'll make sure that I'm going away somewhere to travel.Try to do a sort of as much of a digital detox as I can do. I'm obviously fairly active on social media. It's how I've built up a lot of my profile, and that's how I still get a lot of my patience. But social media can be obviously, A dopamine overload and, and very much or consuming if you don't know how to control it.So switching that off, controlling that so it doesn't control you. I think all those things were super important. Michael: Hmm. Where was the point in your life where you realized you had to do that? Where you're like, man, this is it. The I need a something, right. Something different. sometimes it can happen where it. You're, like you said, you're talking with your, your spouse, right? And then the af they're like, man, you're always doing this. You're, you're on social media, you're doing this. And then you realize like, I need that dopamine in the morning. I'm waking up at night.I'm going to sleep. I need to check it in the restroom. You know, all this stuff. So it's kind of like, when did you realize I'm going down the wrong, wrong path.Simon: I think, I mean, I, I think I, I dunno if I've really cracked that yet, to be honest. I think I still have that dopamine addiction and I think I just constantly want to be moving forward. And when you have the capability to look at your Shopify account, On your direct to consumer business to see how many sales you've had, look at your emails to see if you've landed that new retailer listing.Look on your Invisalign like doctor site to plan your cases. Like there's, there's so much now that you can do all the time remotely. I think certainly for the last five years where I've been running the startup, been a, on the board of the b, c, d and running my own practice. . During that whole time, I've really tried to, to control that inbound.And for example, I've not gone on TikTok intentionally because I just don't want any more, any more things to check and I know, cause I'm, I'm fully, I'm sort of all over the latest things in social media and I can see the monumental power of TikTok. And I'm not saying that other people shouldn't go on it, but I've grown my business on Instagram.It's been very successful for me. But, I've kind of take, pulled back a bit from where I was in that, like, like five years ago. I been posting every single day grid, post, post, post stories, every, like, just going like really hard on it. Whereas now I think, I feel like I've, I've, I've got to a certain level of achievements so I don't need to continuously prove myself.And so, I've tried to pull back from it a bit more than I have done previously and really focus on just delivering sort of a few nuggets here and there in essence. Hmm. I like Michael: that. Where does that come from, where you feel like you need to continuously or what you felt like you've had to prove yourself?Simon: I don't know, to be honest. I think I've, I think I've been like that since, since dental. . I think uh, I mean I have, like anyone had, a reasonable amount, amount of form in my childhood. My sister had cancer when she was seven, which was a, a major, sort of seminal moment in my childhood. Mm-hmm. , um, and obviously in hers.Thankfully she survived and, and it's, it's healthy and well and has, has two kids of her own now. But she was in hospital for six months. It was, it was a serious, incident. , for the whole family. And I think for me, age nine at that time, obviously I had in essence lost my parents as they were sort of looking after my sister.I think that there's probably some, there's probably some, internal sort of desire to be seen if I'm gonna. Heavily myself to the max here. but um, I think the end entrepreneurialism and business is a passion of mine. And so I be as successful as I can do, as I can. And I derive my satisfaction from, from being a man and, and working in our industry.Really. Yeah, Michael: man, that's, sorry about your sister man. Like that's really um, light bulb a a light bulb moment. You know what I mean? For, I think myself, for a lot of us, like in essence when the parents' attention goes, you know what I mean? To like a one full kid. I never thought about that Simon until you mentioned it.Like mm-hmm. You kind of do lose a bit of your, you know what I mean? Like your, the attention you, not a little bit, a lot of, bit of your, the attention from your parents and, and that does stem where you're like, I need to, I need to work harder now for their attention. . And so you feel like that's where it kind of, from that point on and still, and then obviously magnified way more in dental.Simon: I'm sure, I'm sure it's played a part, but I mean, I think the thing is with success, when you, when you taste a bit of success, you won that success again, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, For example, I won best young dentist in the country in 2015, and that was an amazing award to win. But then I was like, right, that it's like gold medal syndrome, isn't it?It's just you, you, you get that big peak of dopamine and then you have the reverse crashed the same way, and then you want to go again to get up to that same level. And that's why I say it's so important that you're enjoying the journey, because if you are only striving for that one moment of success, it's so fleeting that actually it's, it's probably not worth it.Whereas if you're enjoying the journey along the way, as I do with entrepreneurship, I mean building a brand, building a profile, building businesses, that's just play for me. That's fun. And so, I don't look at that as being like, oh God, I've gotta listen to this podcast, or I've gotta come on this podcast with Michael tonight.It's, I, I, I just look at that as fun because I like to, I like to meet new people. I like to talk about experiences and, and all the the various components that make up running a business in, in 2023. Yeah. Michael: No, man. Yeah, I appreciate that. When it comes to the moments of success that you were talking, What would you feel so far is not worth it when it comes to striving for, and maybe you see it on social media where people are like, yeah, you gotta do your own startup.You're gonna love it, and maybe you wanna let them know like, no, not, not everybody's meant for this or not everybody's meant for that kind Simon: of thing. I mean, I definitely agree that not everyone's meant to be a startup entrepreneur. It's incredibly. , especially building a, I think you call them CPG brands in the us right?We call 'em Met fm cg, but consumer package goods like Parlor. Mm-hmm. like toothpaste. It's such a competitive market and you're constantly fighting uphill. You're fighting against the biggest brands in the world. You can leave her and part of Pro and Gamble and Colgate. These guys have got some serious money behind them.And so you constantly feel like you're running up a uphill treadmill. And the girl posts are always changing, especially doing it through a pandemic and, and now going into a recession. So it is, it is a rollercoaster emotion. I think if you don't have a solid support structure around you, then it's not surprising to see so many startup founders have mental health issues.I couldn't not do it. Like I just have this fire inside me where I, I, I can't not execute on my ideas, and I have a million ideas every single day. And so I had to actually execute on one of them. And I'm really proud with Parla that actually we, we've, we've done it. I mean, we've landed on, we're in over a thousand stores in the uk.We've got tens of thousands of subscribers online. So even if we fail from now, . I feel like we've achieved what we set out to do. And I've sort of actually made a difference with this idea where, I mean, the reason we created the brand is that 20 billion toothpaste tubes made a single use plastic end up in landfill or the ocean every year.That every tube of toothpaste you never use still exists somewhere on the planet. That's why we created a brand. So it's a plastic. Solution. And a zero waste solution as well. So I feel like I've made that positive impact as well as creating what is a really cool brand and also disrupting an industry that is in dire need of disruption.Gotcha. Wow, I Michael: didn't know that. So Parlo, what, why that name? Simon: So parlor means Pearl in Swedish. And we felt that the Pearl was the perfect representation of what we were striving to do as a brand. Obviously we're designed by a dentist pearl, white smile and then also the pearl of the ocean.We created the brand really to protect the ocean from single use plastic. That's my happy place. That's where I derive the most joy is when I'm on the ocean, in the ocean by the ocean. And to see the, the level of devastation of single use. Across the world. I mean, anywhere I travel, I see microplastics all over the beach.I just don't wanna see that get worse for, for my kids. And so Parla was, was the, my thing that I could do to actually, to actually make a difference in. I mean, it's dentistry small, but toothpaste. Everyone in the world uses toothpaste in these single use plastic tubes. So it is a big way that we can make a difference as dentists.And so, yeah, hopefully that'll be part of my legacy. Michael: Yeah, man, that's nice. That's beautiful. And so I kind of wanna rewind a little bit. You talked about your, your practice, right? The, the one you currently have, 30 staff members. Yeah, you have 30 staff , and so there's nine operatories, right? 7, 7, 7. I'm sorry, seven operatories, 30 staff members.Do you, let me ask you the positions of all them, you don't have to explain all their single positions or anything like that, but how does that look? 30 staff members, Simon: Structurally? Oh no, you're asking, I mean, I guess we've got about.10 to 12 clinicians but obviously part-time. And then around four or five hygienists. About five receptionists, again, part-time. Two practice managers and to treatment coordinators. . obviously those figures probably don down up to 30, but you get a rough idea on, on what the split's like.Michael: Gotcha. And so you solely run it, or you, and, and your wife is like the COO or how, Simon: how does that look? My wife's a dentist as well, and but yeah, she is, she's best basically the uh, the COO because, obviously with everything else that I'm running , I'm more of the ideas guy where youth more operationally working alongside our practice management team to make sure everything runs, runs smoothly.Okay, Michael: that's good. And so you mentioned you grew it, or actually, lemme ask you, how many new patients are you getting a month if you Simon: Roughly No. Uh, About 50 Michael: 50. Okay. And so organically you grew this through social media, right? They people are finding you through social. Simon: Yeah, so I mean, it's a nice it's a nice setup in the practice where obviously my parents have been there for 35 years.They grew it from a one surgery to a five surgery practice, and then we grew it from a five surgery to a seven surgery practice with a an additional scanning room and, and training center as well. And so it has this nice base of a local reputation, uh, with a large patient. . But then on top of that, obviously I've brought in the specialists, the technology, the cerec, the iro the, the focus on cosmetic and implant dentistry.So, I, I've brought in all these additional additional offerings, which means that we can service all of those existing patients with additional dentistry. But then on top of that, yes, I mean, . I mean, my following on Instagram is nothing, nothing major. It's only about 27,000. But I've been very successful in certain instances with working with influencers with them still paying for treatment but only re receiving a, a discount in exchange for some activity.And that's led to a lot of organic growth of patient demand. I think also because I was on Instagram, Ly very early on, just because photography's a passion of mine anyway, I sort of leveraged on, on most of the alpha of Instagram, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. , um, before now, em, it's incredibly saturated.Now. Everyone's doing Invisalign whitening and bonding on Instagram, certainly in the, in the uk. But it still drives patience and, and still I have patients coming from around the UK around the. Flying in to, to have the dentistry because they like, my specific style of dentistry, which I, which I, I was, I was talking about this um, on another podcast recently, I think about the fact that the thing that I love about social media with dentistry is that actually by the style of dentistry that you do, you attract a certain clientele of patience.So my style is very much A natural aesthetic. So my patients in general want to have a beautiful white smile, but they don't want anyone to know they've had their teeth done. Whereas there's certain areas of the country and certain dentists who, who carry out more sort of flay dentistry where there's less texture and more flat in size ledges and less translucency, and they, those patients almost want everyone to know they've had their teeth done, if that makes sense.Mm-hmm. as sort of like, A show. And so, I don't really get any of those, that second group of patients, I, I only get the patients and they, they always say to me, I've come and see you because I like, I like the style of dance. You do. I like how natural it looks, et cetera, et cetera. And so that's just a really nice self-selecting vehicle for my patients wear.They already know me from a personality point of view. They've, they've seen my profile online and they've, they've seen me talking to the camera, et cetera. But then secondly, actually the clinically we're on the same page as well. that point of view, it's worked quite well for me. Michael: So then what can you give us as far as like, advice when it comes to, Because you've seen that, right?Where people are like, man, Simon, I'm trying to grow my Instagram page, and I have like 105 and it's just like, you know, other dentists following me, but I want like my community to follow me, you know? New patients to get new patients from it. What do you recommend we do from like, if you can give us instructions to start from this point and continue to try and grow.Simon: Well, whether or not Instagram or TikTok is the right place to do that, I would probably say TikTok now, given how much more reach you can achieve, after obviously just saying that I'm not on TikTok, so I mean, that's fairly hypocritical, but that is, that is, that is the truth that TikTok is the place that you should be playing in right now.I think the key thing with social media in general is you need to be not thinking about what you want. You wanna be thinking about what the viewer wants. And so when you are producing content, Think about who you are producing that content for, and then create contact content that's gonna give them value for the things that they want.So, . Instead of just putting up a before and after, for example, fine put up a before and after, but then add onto that, right? This is how I did this. These are the steps. This is what's involved. Try and give more behind the scenes, more real stuff. Not, not necessarily reals, even though reals is what you should be doing, but mean more real content as in more behind the.I think the best way to be successful on social media is to be true to who you are as an individual and just be as honest and real as you can be. Because I think people fall into the trap with Instagram density, where they try to just replicate what they've seen has been successful with other individuals, and then all that happens that everyone just starts looking the same and it just gets very, very dull and boring.I think the more you can be yourself and unique to you and your own values and your own personality, the the more you'll cut. . So I think by following those two things of thinking about what value you're providing to the consumer and to the viewer, and also just being true to who you are as an individual, that's the way that really should be thinking about the content.And then you just need to be doing it at scale. I think people are too sort of blase with, with how they how they produce their content. When I was doing it properly, I was having someone in every single. For a whole day to generate that content. And it was, it was a serious operation and we were looking at what was working, what trends were working, what, what was successful, and then putting our own spin on it.And, and as I say, trying to add value to the consumer with with the way we delivered it. And, and that worked very well for me. And I think if you were to implement that on, and I've seen this with lots of young guys in, in the uk, they've done, they've been incredibly successful with. If you can mass produce and batch produce that content, then it can be really efficient and you don't have to think about doing it every single day.You can, preload your posts using Buffer or later or something like that, and just have them running and then you, you can just sort of set it and forget it. . I say that, but then you really need to be engaging and communicating with your community if you want to grow it. So you, after it's posted, you probably do need to be on there.Liking, commenting and communicating. Michael: Gotcha. Do you still do that right now? Do, are you like having somebody once a month come in or No. Gotcha. Simon: Okay. You right now, I'm, I'm very lazy now. , Michael: you ain't like you're doing a lot, man. You know, that's what I'm thinking. Like, I feel like you're doing so much that you can kind of like take pictures, you know what I mean?And it's just on your Simon: own. Share it. Yeah. I mean, I think I, like, as I say, I, it's probably not the right way to be because. I think this is like the classic pathway of like Blockbuster and Kodak where they become very successful and then they die because they haven't adapted with the times. I'm certainly doing that at the moment, but I think at the same time, you've gotta just, you've gotta look at the realities of your own life.And for me at the moment, the most important thing for me is I've got two young kids and I wanna be spending as many hours of the day in the week as I can do with. . And so something has to give and I have to be respectful of my time and, and not push myself because I know, just because I know I can do something doesn't mean that I should do it.For example, I know that I would smash on TikTok if I really went through it properly and sort of producing content at scale, but I also know that's gonna take me a day, a day, a month, and I literally don't have a day a month. my diary is I have a pa, a personal assistant, and. It's literally blocked out by the minute.I mean, there's no, there's no room anywhere . And so that doesn't mean that I, I neglect my, my health or my family or anything like that. It just means I've blocked out my gym session every day. I've blocked out a therapy session. I've blocked out meditation. I blocked out family time where I'm not on my phone.But if I'm gonna add anything else into. Then something has to come out and at the moment there's nothing really need to come out to add that into. Michael: Yeah, man. Simon, you've, you're very aware, right? Like of your time, you're very aware of like your very specific, why, how did that come to be? Simon: Well, I think it comes back to learning where to say.and being, being respectful of your time and actually knowing what your val, what your life values are. I mean, my, as I say, my, my main focus is that my family is everything. I will never get this time back when my kids are, at this age. And once it's gone, it's gone. And I, I've heard so many successful individuals say that their only regret is that they didn't have enough, they didn't spend enough time with their kids when they were.So that's my main focus with regards to my personal life. With regards to my professional life. I'm very, very clear now on what my values are with regards to that as well, which is that I only want to be doing stuff that I enjoy and that I feel is meaningful and I only wanna do it with people that I love.And so that's how I make my decisions on. on how I move forward is that I, I, I don't, I have to be very, very careful with what I say yes to. And if it doesn't help me with one of those things, if I'm not doing it with people that I enjoy spending time with, if I don't enjoy it, or if I it's not allowing me to progress with something that's meaningful in my life, then I'll just say no to that opportunity.So, for example, if a brand that I'm not particularly keen on, gets in touch with me and asks me to do, An Instagram post and they're gonna pay me a thousand pounds, I'm, I'm not gonna do it because it's gonna take time outta my day. I, I don't, it doesn't, it doesn't fulfill my, my ambitions. Do you know what I mean?Even though it's easy money in, in many ways. Michael: that's the thing. Do you think this kind of can apply at any stage in our lives or, you know how, like at the beginning you said, when we're grinding and we're, we're, we're trying to say yes to a lot of things. Do you think it can't apply there?Because if you say no to, you know what I mean? Like what I don't want to do, then you're, you're not growing kind of thing or, Simon: or what are your thoughts? I think it's gotta be personal to you. I think you've gotta, you've gotta, I think awareness and self objectivity is the really important thing. And you've gotta, you've gotta know what your diary looks like and then tailor your attitudes to, where you're at in your career.For sure. You wanna push yourself outside of your comfort zone as much as possible. And I still do that now because I know that that's where the growth, that's where the growth area is. I mean, God, I've learned so much in the last four years on, on through running par on the, talking with retailers and margins and marketing and.To LTV ratio for my performance ads. I mean, there's just, there's so much stuff that I've learned in the last four years that is way outside of my company zone that I've had to just think on my feet. Like pitching to five dragons on, on Livet, on on live recorded TV for two and a half hours. I mean, that's pretty far outside my comfort zone.I've learned an incredible amount from it, and it's, it's created an incredible opportunity. So I'm definitely not saying that you shouldn't say yes to as much as possible when you're in your early stages, but I think it's just when you have lots of time pressures and lots of opportunities, you have to learn when to start tapering that in because there's only 24 hours in the day and seven days in the week, and so you can only do so much if that makes.No, Michael: that makes a ton of sense. Ton of sense. Okay. So one of the last questions I kind of wanted to ask you. One of 'em right, is throughout this time, your wife is a dentist, right? She's also operations, like the whole, she, I mean, she does all right a lot, right? When it comes to running the practice, family, everything.Yeah. And you, same thing doing a lot. Visionary when it comes to your personal life. I don't know. Do you guys ever agree like, all right, at this time we're not gonna talk about. work-wise, none of that stuff? Or is it more like, yeah, you know what, let's whatever. If it comes up, it comes up. If it doesn't, it doesn't.Or is it like, don't ever stop enough kind of thing with each other? Simon: You might get a different answer here from me and from Megan, but . No, I think, I think one, well, one time that we're very, very careful with is, is the time just before we go to bed. So we always make sure that we're not like dropping like.Oh, this, this hygienist just handed in a notice, like just before we go to bed or something. Or like, like not cause sleep is so important to us, to us both. And we try and uh, sort of flow down the brain in that pre in that free bedtime. So I like that that section is, is certainly sort of demarcated as, as not being appropriate for dental chats.But in general, I think that Megs and I are both very honest, open people, and if we're worrying about something, then we will just talk about it. I mean, I very much wear my hat on my sleeve. if there's something wrong with me, then everyone around me unfortunately will know about it. And if I'm happy about something, everyone will know about it.And so I think we have a very open and honest relationship where we are. We're comfortable talking about whatever. I don't think either of. Get, it is not being necessary to have that conversation to say, these are the times when we talk about this. These are the times when we don't. Because firstly, that's not the reality of owning a a small business.Things come up normally when you are on holiday, um, and you have to deal with them sometimes. So that is just the reality of running your own business. That's, that's what you sign up for. But also we enjoy it. And it's, it's, it's part of, it's, it's part of the fabric of our relationship. I mean, it's certainly.The majority of our relationship, but we've been together now for, for 13, 14 years. And it's, it's always been, obviously we, we grad, we, I met her on the first day of university. We graduated together. Dentistry's always been a part of our relationship, and so, uh, and now businesses as well. And it's just, it's nice to learn new things together and to grow together.So I think I, we look at it very much as a positive. Michael: Nice. You met her on the first day of Univers. You're like, this is, you're it. You're the one that, that that's how it went. Pretty much. Yeah. , that's, and she was like, yeah, I guess. Yeah, you too. Yeah. . So that's good, man. That, that makes me happy, Simon. And then last question is, throughout this process, let's talk about from the moment I guess you decided to open, not open this practice, but like take over your parents to like today, right?What's been some. Your biggest struggles, fails, or Simon: pitfalls?I mean, the biggest struggle was the pandemic, to be honest with you. Certainly that day when I had to call my team and tell them all we were posing, I mean, that was a, that was a very emotional day. and, uh, yeah, a lot of tears, a lot of anxiety around, when we were gonna open again, we. Terrible information for Mark governing Embodi, very poorly disseminated.I mean, we found out, we were going back to work on the BBC with, with everyone else, and they said Dentists will be open, or healthcare providers, we open in a week. We're like, is that us? Are we, are we, are we back in action here? , like we had no, no protocols. Like it was just, it was awful. It was a constant battlefield.But, I'm a very emotional person, so I, I, I feel that the ups and the downs very viscerally, but I am a huge advocate that the hard times are what you need to go through to get to, to get to successful parts of your life. And . Yeah, I think certainly. I mean, whenever something bad happens in any of our businesses, we're always just like, we're just gonna, we'll put it in the book, we'll put it in the book one day when we write a book of our, of our story.And so I think that's a good way to look at it, is that nobody who's ever run a business, ever run their own business, has ever succeeded their way to success. They've always failed their way, success. And that is just what happens. You've gotta, you've gotta build that resilience and you've gotta just understand.Your favorite associate's gonna hand in their notice or that patient who, you've tried your best for is gonna complain and, and sue you or whatever. These things are just the reality of life. Life is not fair. Life is not just, but you have to build that resilience and. I sort of push through.I, I read a lot of stoic philosophy, so I read I dunno if you're familiar with the Daily Stoic book. um, from Ryan Holiday, but I read that every morning uh, as part of my morning routine, first thing. yeah, I love stoic philosophy for looking, for looking at uh, a lens through which to look at the hard times in life because we're all gonna have them, right?Yeah, yeah, that's Michael: true. And you gotta build that. Resilience, like you said, when it comes to reading, I guess, is that the one that you're on right now, like as far as, or is that what you do in the morning for like, and then you read other things? Simon: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I only read the, the idea with that book is that you just read one quote and you sort of let, let that, sink in and, and process it as opposed to sort of rattling through.So I've been reading that for I think three years every. So I read one quote every morning. It's literally the first thing I do. And even travel with it. It goes everywhere with me. So yeah, so that, that I wouldn't really class as reading. The book I'm reading right now is called How to Invest by, I think his name's Daniel Rubenstein.Which yeah, it's quite interesting. I'm quite interested in sort of angel investing and that sort of thing as potentially part of. My ongoing career obviously with my sort of deep understanding of building a startup now and looking for ways to sort of diversify my, my portfolio moving forward.That's quite a, an interesting area for me. So yeah, that's a book that that I'm reading currently. And then the book that I always recommend to everyone, which I just think is so good is uh, the Almanac of Nav. . It's just an amazing book. It's just such a well-rounded view on life. I think everyone should read it.It's, it's so powerful. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. You're right. That I just read, finished it. Uh, I wanna say December. Really good book. Yeah. Oh, Simon: really? Yeah. It's, it's Wick. Good. it's the only book that I, apart from Daily Stewart that I've read more than once. Cause I just wanted to get that knowledge again.Michael: Yeah. When you reread it, like, for example, the, the Daily s. , do you feel like where was this? I didn't see this last year. Do you feel like that? Yeah. Simon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you not in concentration mode reading book right out and you'll different. But Steve reminding, like, especially with the daily Stoic, it's so easy to let whatever the current.Storm is to distract you, but I think it's good to go back to those sort of classic philosophies. Michael: Yeah, nice man. You need to start a book club and we'll join and, you know, kinda get your suggestions, but Awesome. Simon, I truly appreciate you coming on. If anybody has any questions or concerns or they just wanna reach out to you, how can they Simon: find you?Um, So Instagram's probably the best place. My Instagram handles at Dr. Simon Char. And then Yeah, that's probably it. Really just, just send me a D on Instagram and normally on there uh, a little bit too much. Awesome. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, and Simon, thank you for being with us.It was a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Cheers.‍

Minal Sampat and I have a weekly newsletter called Weekly Hacks. It's for pediatric dentists and pediatric practice owners only, and we share one effective growth hack every week to achieve big wins. no fluff, no spam, just your weekly dose of what you need to grow. Subscribe here to get this week's hack in your inbox! https://mailchi.mp/9d2a4644fd31/the-pediatric-dental-marketing-newsletter‍‍Hey guys! In this week's Monday Morning Marketing for dental practice owners, we provide tips on creating effective videos for your website. Rather than stressing over a perfect script, simply record a casual conversation with a team member or utilize an AI tool like Chat GPT to create a script. It's important to have three key videos on your homepage: a banner video showcasing your practice, a personalized video introducing the dentist, and a testimonial video from a happy patient. Additionally, creating short video series answering commonly searched questions can establish your practice as a trusted authority and attract potential patients to your website.‍To get the scoop on these tips and more, don't miss this episode with Minal!‍You can reach out to Minal Sampat here:Website: https://minalsampat.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/minalsampatllc/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RealTalkWithMinalSampat‍Other Mentions and Links:The Pediatric Dental Marketing Course EnrollmentNetflixHuluHBOChat GPT‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Min, also talk to us about pediatric dental marketing. How can we utilize this? Or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us to attract new patients? Minal: Well, with pediatric, one of the best things to do is to show off your practice culture. Cuz let's face it, you have the most fun practice culture and you can have fun and you don't have to worry about thinking, is this too childish?Guess what? It's totally okay for you to be right. So one of the things that you wanna show off, especially in the world we live today, because our parents with young children are usually in the Gen X generation, right? Mm-hmm. And the millennial generation. So we grew up with videos and we grew up with Instagram reels and Facebook and all that stuff.So we are very in tune to social media, yes. But we are also very in tune. Looking you up and seeing who you are as a practice. Because if I want my child to come to your practice, and I know that I, myself as a parent, am afraid of going to the dentist, yeah, you are a dentist, that's great, but I really want to make sure my child's gonna be okay and have a good time at their dental appointment.So one of the best ways to do that is through videos. Now, let's say you have videos. I want you to kind of, you know, all of our listeners right now, um, do this in a way that makes sense. So, according to Google, most of the people, so over 60% of the people would rather watch online videos than television, which again makes sense cuz we have our phone on our hand and, you know, when do we watch TV?Late at night. I'm a millennial. I'm in my thirties, I'm in my mid thirties and I haven't had cable since like 2008, 2009. Like, I don't, like, I just go to Netflix or I just like go to Hulu or HB or whatever. And watch my show, right? So this means that they are watching these videos. So this is the first thing you're going to do if you don't have this already on your homepage of your website, you need to have a minimum of three videos.The first video is going to be a banner video. So a banner video is going to, something fun. Maybe it's a fun video of you going through the office. Maybe it's a fun video of the team having a good time. Maybe patients high fiv. You want a banner video, something that as soon as they land on their website, they're gonna be like, Ooh, this seems fun, or This is great.You wanna capture their attention. The second video that you want to have is a video of the doctor, talking about themselves and the practice. Now, I know that some of the doctors, you're always thinking, oh no, I do not wanna do video at all. I don't like it. I don't like to, I don't know what to say on it.I freeze when I get up there. I get it. I a hundred. Get it. I understand. So this is what you do. You get an I. So you just have a conversation. Get somebody on your team. If you're uncomfortable with video, get somebody on your team and have them ask questions if you want to do this by yourself. I just had this conversation with a five location pediatric dentist yesterday, and he's like, I hate video.Oh my God, what am I gonna do? So here's a quick tip. Go to Chad g p t, like, I'm not even joking. Go to chat G p t and in the chat g p t put on a prompt and say, give me a script for a pediatric dentist to have on the welcome script for the homepage, and it'll give you the script.and then you can say, give me prompts on how to act on the video. It'll tell you, get close to the video. Now move out. Hold the little thing with a toothbrush. Do this. It'll actually plan out your entire. So you don't even have to worry about it. Use AI to help you if you need to. I mean, we just did this entire thing yesterday and this dentist who hates video, he is a pediatric dentist.He has five locations and he got three different scripts from Chad, g p t as we were talking about it. And now he's gonna record the video today cuz he knows what to say. And clearly if you have somebody who can interview in your practice even better, then it's just a natural conversation. You don't have to worry about a script or anything like that.You just talk about why you, why is it that you do this, and where you went to school and um, you know, what do you love about your day, right? So you could do that. So second video has to be with a dentist. The third video has to be a testimonial video. So somebody else has to say how amazing your practice is, So if you have these three Cs of videos on your homepage, that's where you're going to start. Mm-hmm. Now the other stuff you're going to start doing is, once again, you can go to your Google, uh, you can go to your website company and if they're doing SEO for you, ask them and say, what are the questions that are being searched online from parents?So you're going to, you know, and you could do this, Google actually gives us information for free. So you can go into the town and see what questions are being asked. So let's say the question's being asked, what happens if a baby tooth comes out? Or, uh, you know, when should I take my kid to a pediatric dentist?Or, what is, is, you know, is fluoride good or bad for children? Or all of those questions that you usually get. Make many q and a series videos with them, and now have your website company. Take those q and a series videos and add it to your YouTube channel. Create a YouTube channel and then have your website company do YouTube seo.So this means when somebody asks that question, your video will pop up. And as we all know, we go and ask anything on Google and there are always these YouTubes pop up. Mm-hmm. And we click on the one, and now they're listening to you and watch new. Right Now you take those same videos, you crop them, make them vertical, all that good stuff, and you make them into Instagram reels.You download those videos and then you make them into TikTok. You see where I'm going with this? Mm-hmm. You can take any one of this stuff and repurpose it in multi different ways. So I hope that this helps you with all the video. Michael: I like that. So the three videos, we want to have banner, video, video for the doctor, and the frequently asked kind of questions, where do I go for this?When it comes to like Google, where we find out where the questions are at, Minal: just ask your SEO Michael: complain. Okay. Okay. So Minal: like the website. And if you want, and if you want to, and if you want to go back to Chad g p t, just simply go to chat g p t and say, what are some of the questions that parents are asking about pediatric dental health or about, uh, their kid's teeth?And see what Chad g p t says. Now, Chad, g p t does not have all the answers clearly. you know, it is something AI is working through, its way through this. So not everything is. Truthful and relevant just yet. So that's why I said if you are working with the s e O company, they can go to the Google search console and they can provide you the queries.Google calls them queries, um, that they're receiving, um, so that you can base your content with this. How often should we Michael: be doing these videos, like refreshing them, make it so we make them, and that's it. And then we have the questions, and then we distribute that all out. Now we're. Right. We finished distributing.Do we repurpose it? Do we do it again? Or what do we, how do we do that? A hundred Minal: percent. This completely depends on your. Comfort level with videos. Like if you hate doing videos, I'm not going to be like, do videos every week cuz you're gonna hate me then. And you are gonna not love the videos either. And it's gonna show that you don't love doing this videos.I don't want that to happen. If you love doing videos, then yeah, do them all the time. Do them every week, right? Create new videos realistically for social media because videos are so popular and not like live videos and long videos, videos. Less than 30 seconds are really popular. Instagram reels, seven seconds, right, is where you wanna land with TikTok and Instagram reels.People usually make a decision if they wanna watch a video within three seconds when they're on social media. So if you have videos on social media, um, they have to be shorter. If you have videos on your website, I wouldn't recommend more than a minute, There's too many dings and pings and notifications coming our way to do that.So absolutely, uh, you can take care of that. And if you have any questions, you know, reach out to me. I can give you like a list of videos and stuff, but if you go to my Instagram, you will see pediatric dental real ideas, like it's actually in there. so you have all this content and information available.Michael: Yeah, that's kind of tough making like a seven minute or seven second, you know what I mean? If it's inform. Um, Minal: not really. If you think about it, it kind of forces you to share the information. I mean, you just, if you're thinking about like a seven second, like TikTok or Instagram video, You just need a hook on the top that says something like what are, what are ceilings?And then you can just have you pointing at different things and you tell us what seals are or you know, what is baby baby tu decay? You could ask that as a question and you could, you know, kind of point around or do something. So it's actually easy cuz you are not really talking, talking all the time, and it also keeps it easier for you because you can quickly go, what are dental ceilings where they are, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you just keep it simple and easy. It takes a little bit of time and effort. Comfortable with it, and to have fun with it. But once you're on it and once you have the ideas, it becomes a lot easier.Michael: How often at all do you see like the procrastination for this when it comes to a practice, when they're like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm making the videos, I just gotta set it up and I'm thinking of ideas and it, they're, you kind of feel it, you're like, you're just giving me excuses now, kind of thing. You're not making it happen, so how can we like eliminate that?Minal: You have to set time for it. Just like everything. You know, if it's everybody's job, it's nobody's job. If it's not on the calendar, it's not going to happen. If it's more like, oh yeah, we have a lunch thing happening tomorrow, so we'll do it. Okay, well, yes. Then put it down in your lunch thing, in the part of your agenda.We are all together at the lunch meeting. We are going to use 15 minutes to record some videos or do some, you know, fun high fives or do a quick dance or uh, answer a quick question, whatever it is, but it has to be on the calendar. And it can be in a calendar. That's like an afterthought. It can't be like, oh, we had a cancellation, so we'll do it when we have cancellations.Well, it's an afterthought, so now we are waiting for a cancellation to happen for you to do this instead. It has to be a part of your schedule, of your calendar, and if it's like that, it will make it happen. I always think about it with the gym, right? Like going to the gym or working out. We all know we have to.We all know we should be doing it, but if it's not on our calendar, and if we don't have that hour booked to work out, something is always going to come along. That's more important. I'm putting this in quotation mark for all the listeners. That's more important than working out. I know. I Trust me. I know.So, Michael: yeah. Okay. Gotcha. So put it on the calendar. Who should be in charge of this? If you had. Pick someone. Let's just say Manal. I'm hiring you to beyond my team, who's in charge of this? Minal: Somebody who wants, first of all, likes videos and also likes technology or uses technology. Um, that's pretty much it. So that could be anybody.It could be somebody you hire. Maybe you have a niece, a nephew, a friend, son, or daughter who's young. You know, I have practices that have teenagers. Their own teen kids are doing videos for them. I have practices that have hired college kids. I have practices that have team members doing it. What I don't want you to do is get somebody who absolutely hates technology or does not like technology, or is not on Instagram, or is not on Facebook, or not on TikTok, or whatever platform you wanna be on, and then tell them to do.That it's not going to happen cuz they simply don't know the platform and it's something they organically don't like. That's why they are not active on social media. So I would have a very honest conversation with them and say, Hey, we wanna do these videos, we wanna get our practice culture out there.who here would love to do that? You will get additional pay for it. Don't make it a part of like, okay, you just do it cuz no, again, it can be an afterthought. You will get additional pay for it. Uh, and you will get time to work on it. So who wants to. And then see, you know, who are those people who wants to do it?Because if they know the technology then it's easy ideas, content. Again, I'm a social media coach, and this is what I do and it becomes a lot easier. And I have had, you know, sessions when I'm coaching practices where the team members are like super excited and thrilled to do it and like I come in and they're like on it and they're like, oh my God, when we tried this and this is what happened and we did this, and then.I shouldn't say, but I will say it. Then. I literally spent two hours last week showing a team member how to forward an email Uhhuh. And, uh, that's their social media person. And you can understand the conversation I have with the doctor after I spent two hours teaching somebody how to forward an email and said, we need to change our social media ambassador because I, you know, you can't be paying me money.To do that. Mm-hmm. Cause that's not gonna Michael: work. Yeah. Yeah. That's not a good way to, okay. No, I, I get you. I get you. Awesome. Real quick, last question. Well, I wanted to ask you, when it comes to paying that, you said like, I'll give you extra. How much do you recommend. Minal: Depends on how much you wanna pay them.Um, there are practices they, and right now team members are hard to come by, so you also want to make sure you're not overflowing their workload already. So depending, I mean, social media managers charge, you can pay them anywhere between $18 an hours to. 30, 35. It depends on how good they're and what they're doing.So depending on what your bonus structure is, maybe you make it a part of their bonus system. Maybe you make it a part of their, uh, pay system. Cuz again, I don't know how much you're paying them for their actual job. Maybe it's assisting hygiene front desk. so just depending on what they are. But pretty much anywhere it ranges anywhere between $18 an hours and up.And also depends on where you are in the country because some states have higher prices, uh, higher wages than other. Michael: Gotcha. Awesome, awesome. Manal, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her in the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or there's two ways we can reach out to Manal and myself for more advice on and more tips.There's a newsletter, right, that we have that is fan fantastic. It's in the show notes below. We're gonna put a link to it. It's gonna be the first link in the show notes below, and at the same time second. If you really want more, much more in depth and you want to talk with us one-on-one, uh, meaning like monthly, where can they go for them at all?Minal: pediatric Dental Marketing course. Michael: Yep. Yep. The Pediatric Dental Marketing Course guys, that's gonna be open for enrollment in May, so that's next. And if you're a part of the newsletter, then you'll, you'll know exactly when it's open and you'll get access first and much, much more information on that.So, uh, I'm gonna put a link to that in the show notes below, so you can go check that out. But also, min, thank you so much for being with us and, um, where can people reach out to you directly? Minal: Um, Minal samad.com is my website, which is M i n a l s A M P A T. Find me on Instagram again. Same name, Minal Samad.Find me on Facebook. Save your name. Um, just Google me. It's, I'm easy to find. But minal samad.com is the website. Michael: All right. Thank you with being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Thank you for having.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Angelica SetoPractice Name: Seto Family DentistryCheck out Angelica's Media:‍Instagram: @seto_family_dentistryTikTok: @setofamilydentistryFacebook‍Other Mentions and Links:Atomic Habits - James ClearWhy We Sleep - Matthew WalkerAulani Disney ResortWells FargoDisney+CEREC - Chairside Economical Restoration of Esthetic CeramicTDM Instagram: @thedentalmarketerYelpIsoliteAmy Murray - The Dental Practice Management AgencyDAT - Dental Admission Test‍‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Having income from an acquisition allowed her to go 100% fee for service on her new startup.Even though business consultants are expensive, a good one will bring you even more income than their cost!Don't be afraid to ask for help in the beginning. You don't have to wear all the hats in your practice.If you are firing a team member, it should be for the good of the team. Don't think of this as a personal attack!Leave room to have fun in morning huddles. Chatting and building team culture can be just as important as the day's plan.Don't beat around the bush when letting a team member go. Start with “I'm letting you go” and then follow up with the reasons.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Na Angelica, how's it going? I'm doing well. How are I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking if you don't want me asking, where are you located? Angelica: my practice is located in Denver, Michael: Colorado. Oh, man. how is it like that?Angelica: It's uh, pretty cold, but it was nice to escape the winter of last week on vacation. . It dropped down to negative four degrees while we Michael: were gone. Right. So it's, is it snowing right now over there? It's Angelica: not snowing right now. but we do get snow on and off again, during the Winter Monks. Hey, Michael: real quick, how long have you been open for your practice?Oh, Angelica: this practice I opened in August of 20. Michael: Oh, okay. So it's been about, cuz I. I thought for some reason you might've just opened and you took a vacation. I'm like, man, you're doing fantastic. You get it, you get life like . Where'd you go on vacation? Angelica: We went to Hawaii. Michael: Nice. Then what'd you guys do over there?Angelica: we went to the Disney resort called Elani in Oahu. And we spent time with our daughter who's 15 months old. her name's Nora and my in-laws, my brother-in-law. So it was just a nice family Michael: vacation. , how was that opening up a practice and then having a child? Oh, Angelica: that was tough, . Cause my husband and I actually had trouble getting pregnant, so we, had to do I V F mm-hmm.So when I was building my practice, I was going through egg retrieval and all the hor hormone injections. So that was wild just trying to, Stay nor somewhat normal while building a practice and, and being on all those hormones. Michael: Yeah. Did you ever feel like. Maybe I'm gonna take a pause right now with one or the other, you know what I mean, or no?Angelica: So actually I owned two practices. I purchased a practice I had been working at, since June of 2019, and I purchased that practice. In January of 2020, I was running two practices and then the shutdown happened. I was trying to get pregnant, and it was too much. I just hit a breaking point December.of, 2021. I had just had my daughter. I had a pretty traumatic delivery and I, I couldn't do it anymore. And so I sold my practice within 24 hours, my second practice. and it life has been good since it, it's all about balance. , Michael: yeah. No, yeah. What, can we dive into that a little bit? Like so you had two practice.And you just sold one or you sold both of them? I sold one. The second one. Why'd you sell that one? Angelica: I acquired that practice. the dentist I acquired, well the dentist passed away unexpectedly. it was very, tragic event. And, was working with a couple of his friends colleagues of ours who.trying to help his, wife or widow, uh, get rid of the practice. Mm-hmm. . And so they purchased the practice for me, because I couldn't get another loan after getting a startup loan. and they're, older dentists and so they helped me quite a bit. I learned a lot from them. they were great mentors.And they practiced further down south. So I purchased the practice and anytime I had questions, I would email or call them, and they would help me out quite a bit. and it was great because the practice was producing quite a bit and it was helping to pay the bills for my fee for service startup.so I was funneling money from one practice into another to make ends meet, and that's really why I was able to start out 100% fee for service. I've never accepted insurance at my startup practice. and it was because I was fortunate enough to have met. These people, who helped me purchase a secondary practice while I was building and who taught me quite a bit about the business of dentistry and, some clinical, and gave me quite a few clinical tips as well.Cause I was a fairly new dentist and owning two practices at once was, was a lot to bite off so Michael: soon. so the, the fee for service startup was the one in 20. Yes. Okay. And then like couple months or a year later you acquired the second practice? Angelica: no. So the January, January before, so January of 2020 is when I purchased the secondary practice.my startup opened in August of 2020. Oh, okay. So just eight months later, I was actually supposed to open, much earlier around the time I purchased a secondary practice, I was supposed to open my, my startup, but as you know, covid hit everything shut down. It was really difficult to get materials during that time.and it delayed my opening quite a bit, which was unfortunate because I had bills that were starting to come in for my. Startup and I wasn't even able to practice or open my doors because of the shutdown. Mm-hmm. . Uh, And so having that secondary practice really, helped me out during that time. Michael: So, real quick, how much was your, the loan process when it came to your startup?Was that what, what bank did you go with? I went with Wells Fargo. Okay. How much was a loan for? Angelica: it was four 500. Michael: 500. Okay. What was the terms on that, do you remember? Angelica: I had to start, and so that was, I had to start paying, there was a certain time after construction started that I had to start paying that loan back and because of Covid that time was, longer than I was planning for it to be, and that's why I had to start paying the loan back Michael: early.Gotcha. Okay. So 500. . And then did you get another loan for the acquisition or Angelica: So, the dentist who passed away, his, his one of his best friends, the power of attorney for the practice. He, bought the practice for me and I was just making payments toward, for like, to him personally. So we had a personal, like, personally financed loan.Michael: How did, can I ask, how much was the. Angelica: I bought it for 220,000. Michael: Okay, so he bought it. He was a partner or Angelica: he just stepped in as a power of attorney? when the car accident happened, to help his wife get rid of the practice, because we knew pretty early on that, the dentist who ended up passing away wasn't going to practice again.Michael: Yeah. Okay, man. So then he ended up purchasing it for you and then you just made payments. Was there like a, a schedule or was it just like on a handshake, like, Hey, we're gonna, oh, I got you. Angelica: It was cut a little bit of both. Uh, He was very laid back. He purchased it. Everything was in my name. he put a lot of trust into me, and I barely knew him.He's one of the nicest people that I now know very Michael: well. Man. after this, gimme his. No, I'm, I wanna be friends with him. . Ok. He's great. No, that's good. That's, that's, that's interesting. Okay. So then that happened, you decided to go fee for service right? From that point on, I'm assuming it wasn't an easy startup process.Angelica: No, it was not. It was a very slow burn in the beginning. But that allowed me to work at both locations. I was working full-time, so five days a week, and splitting my time between both practices. so I was producing at a. , you know, my secondary practice, which was producing really well, I was running three columns.It was a very busy in-network, partially Medicaid practice. Mm-hmm. . So I was running around like crazy at that practice. We were just, our schedule was packed and then I'd come to my, my fever service startup and it was very slow. . Yeah. so I would alternate days, at both Michael: Gotcha. So how much were you producing in the second practice or the one that you.The one Angelica: I acquired. Oh. when I acquired it, the first year was right at a million. Michael: Okay. And so you would use that to help you with the startup for fee for service? Yes. Gotcha. Okay. And then that's when you were like, this is too much. When you started going through, birth, Angelica: so when I got pregnant, You know, hire and going through Covid, hiring new employees.I had two associates at one time. it just became too stressful, managing that many people. I think my biggest downfall was one, COVID. and two, I didn't ask for help soon enough. I wish I would've asked for more support. instead of trying to handle everything on my. What Michael: do you mean?Like, gimme more detail on that. Angelica: so I was doing all the interviewing and hiring and managing of both practices. and you know, I, I love dentistry and I, I feel like I'm a great dentist, but I, I am not a very, I'm not the best, I wasn't the best businesswoman and I. , wear my heart on my sleeve. And so, you know, I was interviewing these people and I felt like they would be a good fit, but I wasn't really going through the right motions to find the right people, the right, who would fit into my practice.So I ended up hiring a practice or a business, consultant. And I, I love this woman. She has helped me out so much and has, Saved me more than once with hiring, filling voids taking so much off of my plate. I think, being a new mom and owning two practices, And just trying to do it, you know, keep I'm, I'm a workaholic.I love, I stay at work late. I um, I'm going to the practices on the, over the weekends and it was just, it was too much. I was burning the candle at both ends. And so when Amy, my, my business consultant came into the picture, she really took so much off my plate. I didn't meet any, Candidates for any job position until they had gone through Amy first and she vetted them and she would have them take a personality test and I thought that was really cool.She would do a disc assessment with every, candidate and see if they would mesh with me and with other members of my team before even introducing them to me or anyone else in. and that saved a lot of time and, and heartache for me. . Michael: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Well, who's the business consultant? Angelica: her name's Amy Murray.She works for, the Dental Practice Management Agency. They have a very long name. . Michael: I know. Yeah. Dental Practice Management Agency. Why do you think you didn't ask for help at the beginning? Like is it cuz like you just didn't know what you didn't know or more like it's my baby's like I. Angelica: I think it was more, You know, personally, I, I wanted to do it all and, and say that I did it myself. I'm a hard worker. I, I worked two jobs when I was an undergrad. I babysat when I was in dental school, and I've always been a hard worker. And, and so I felt like I, I should be able to make this work on my own. I think the reason I waited so long was because business consultants aren't cheap.and I. Bad spending so much money, you know, spending all the money to, for a startup. all the equipment I was purchasing and materials, you know, I was start, money was dwindling and so I was like, I don't have any money to put towards a business consultant, but I wish I had done it sooner because I mean, she has doubled my, production for my secondary.within a year. So, if I had just hired her on sooner, who knows where I would be now. Michael: Okay. Gotcha. So right, right now you don't have the other practice though, right? The acquisition? No. Angelica: No. Okay. So I just have my fee for Michael: service practice. Gotcha. Okay. So then, I mean, hey, you're, you're a hard worker.We know you're a hard worker, , so where did that come from to wanna say like, Hey, I did. Angelica: well, so my father's an immigrant, from Mexico and he, he came into the States, and he had a degree. When he was living in, in Mexico, he had a degree there, but it, when he came to the states in his early twenties, he wasn't able to use that degree here.And so he had to go to school again. he had to learn English. He only spoke Spanish. So growing up we spoke English primarily in our household. , so that my father could learn enough English to go to school and get a job. he worked as a cook in a kitchen while going to school and eventually became an optical engineer.And he has, I think three patents under his name, now, and he has just accomplished so much and started out with nothing to his name, no money. He didn't speak English when he came here, and he just built this beautiful. Wife, like he is the walking, living American dream. And you know, I just, I witnessed that growing up and, you know, if he can do it, I should be able to do it cuz I've had a lot more support, than he had growing up and financially and just a lot more.it was, I had a lot more opportunities than he did. Michael: Mm-hmm. . Do you feel more pressure cuz of that? Angelica: I think so. ? Michael: Yeah. Why? Angelica: I just wanna make him proud. I know that he's worked hard to give us, a life, a good life. worked hard to help put us through school and, I want to show him that I appreciate that and that I can put the work in.and make Michael: him proud. Do you think he's not proud? Oh Angelica: no. My dad's very proud. . Michael: Yeah. So, okay. Yeah, so he's proud. I mean, like, you know what? He's proud, Angelica: but I just can't stop. I have to keep going. . Michael: I get you. I get you. Yeah, no, I think Angelica: it's the dentist and all of us, you know, we're also competitive because we've just always had to prove ourselves with, you know, first d a t scores and then taking the boards.And then I feel like in dental school we're all fighting for, you know, those top positions. And so I feel like our entire. education and the start of our careers is just very competitive. So we're kind of bred to be like that too, in a, in a way. Mm-hmm. . Michael: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You wanna kind of like, continue, continue, continue, right Angelica: to, yeah, you already achieved this level, like what's next?Mm-hmm. and have to keep, I feel like I just have to keep going. . Michael: Do you feel like that right now? Like, cuz I mean, technically you've had two practices. You sold one, right? Mm-hmm. now a startup. Mm-hmm. . What was the whole reason for your startup? Angelica: so I was an associate for a little under three months, when I graduated and moved to Denver.I didn't really like how things were being done at the practice that I was at, but I really had no say. I had to show up and do my work and leave. And there were other procedures, other, things I was interested in, but I couldn't do those things cause I wasn't an owner. and this person wasn't really open to part partnership and so I decided well, , you know, I, I know what I wanna do.I know what type, what level of care I wanna provide my patients. so why not just go out on my own and make it happen that way I can make those big decisions. Michael: What were the level of procedures you wanted to do that they didn't want Angelica: you to do? So, I'm very interested with sleep and airway. I am an airway dentist and I love cosmetics, so I love doing big veneer cases.And at this practice, I, I was only being given what the other dentist didn't want to do. And so I felt like I couldn't get those big procedures. I, you know, I never got the big veneer cases or cosmetic cases that. Michael: Gotcha. Looking back, if you found a practice that would let you do this, or if they told you, yeah, you can do this, would you still have opened up your own practice?Angelica: I think I, I still would have opened up my own practice. Eventually, probably not as fast. But I eventually would've wanted my own, my own practice. Michael: For what reason? To just be like, this is my home, or this is for what? Angelica: because it's something that I created and something that I worked hard to make.And I've never been open to working for, I've never worked for a corporation. I don't really like that fast paced environment. I like to move at a slower pace, give patients more time with me, and yeah, and I like to buy the equipment. I, I'm a big tech junkie. I love my, my new equipment, so I wanna be able to buy what I want, when I want it and work with the people that I like working with.And yeah, I don't, I just don't feel like you can do that as an associate. Michael: Yeah. Too many like having to asks and things like that instead of just going to straight to it Right. Kind of thing. Gotcha. Okay. Okay, so then you opened up your practice, your startup. I asked that mainly because I don't know if you're like, I want more free time, or I want to spend time with, you know, your fam, or I don't know, which I'm sure you do, right?Like everybody wants that, but Oh yeah. Do you feel, what are some things that have come unexpectedly for you in the startup process where you're like, oh man, like I missed just that paycheck and then going home and then that's it, kind of thing. Angelica: Oh gosh. I mean, right now, right now. I have an amazing team.I truly feel like they're my family. Like we all work together really well and do, would do anything for each other. But it, it took a long time to get there. And I definitely had some team members in the past who made me just want to quit dentistry altogether. just like get rid of everything.. So I think finding the right team members and building that team, it takes a while. And but once you find the right people, it feels good. And, you know, this is why I went into dentistry. This is why I went into ownership, is to work alongside people who have the same passion that I do, and, they make coming to work enjoyable again.Michael: Yeah. What were those team members doing, or why did they make you want to give up? Angelica: They would either no call, no show um, oh really? They would call or they'd call the morning of and say, Hey, I can't make it in. I'm sick. Or I have this going on, and I'm pretty lenient with, with callins and people not coming.As long as you give me notice. As long as it's not too frequent, but this was happening, happening very frequently. And so a lot of ti I bought an isolate because I just, I had to be prepared to work by myself, and it was very stressful turning rooms over breaking out the isolate and just being in the room one-on-one with the patient and having to, if I forgot something, I'd have to run outta the operatory.It was just chaotic. , but it was difficult to find people and I know that a lot of my colleagues are still struggling with that. And it's stressful. So I think managing people and hiring employees is probably one of the hardest things for me right now. Mm-hmm. well was one of the hardest things for me.Michael: How do you wish you would've dealt with it sooner? Even with the fear of like, oh my God, I can't find people. Angelica: I wish I would've because it was difficult to find employees. So I felt like I let a lot of things go. I wish I would've set better boundaries earlier on.because I was afraid to lose employees even though they were not so great employees. I was scared to lose them cause I didn't want to be by myself. And so I felt like I was bending over backwards to keep these people happy just so that I would have somebody helping me in the practice some employees would ask for different hours or they didn't wanna work certain days or they wanted to do a late start. And allowing some people to do that and not others is not fair. And I wish I would've just put my foot down and and said, no, these are the hours I hired you for these hours.These are the hours I expect you to come in. Instead of saying, oh, I think we can make it work. And stressing out over trying to make it work for that one person. And that's just. an example of, of one instance. Michael: Mm-hmm. . Okay. Was it easy to let them go? Angelica: Oh you know, the first time I had to let someone go, I was sweating.My heart was racing. It was uh, really difficult. But after, you know, being an owner of two practices and going through covid and the high turnover rate it has gotten easier to let people go. Don't no longer serve a purpose in my office or in my life. And I don't do it often anymore. I, I mean, I haven't let someone go in a very long time.But when I do it, I know that. I'm doing it for the betterment of the team. You know, you don't wanna keep somebody on who is the cancer of the practice, right? And bring everyone else down. Also, you don't want to keep around somebody who. Is making you miserable, then you're bringing that home to your family and family is so important to me.And so I wanted to make sure that my workplace is a happy place and I left happy, and that way I'm not coming home and bringing all the negative feelings home with me, cuz that's not fair to my family. Michael: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. No, that's true. A hundred percent. How did you let them go? How did it improve from the moment you were like, Because I get you like Yeah.Sometimes you're, you, you're negotiating in your head. You're like, that's not that bad anymore. You know what I mean? Like, I can, I can handle that, you know? But how Angelica: the best advice someone gave me was you bring the person in and. , the first thing that comes out of my mouth is I'm letting you go for these reasons.And then you list those reasons, but you don't beat around the, like I used to just beat around the bush a little bit in the beginning and it made things a little awkward, but I've found that if. , I'm letting you go. And here are the reasons. As the first thing out of my mouth, then they know already. And you give the reasons and it sets the tone.You keep it short. So there's a beginning, middle, and end, and you don't what's the word? You don't dilly dolly, you know? Mm-hmm. just very straight into the point. That's what they. You know, they don't want to sit around and listen to how they were so great, but you have to let them go and that sort of mess, just, I have to let you go.And these are the reasons why. Michael: Wow. Okay. That's a, that takes some, you know what I mean? Like some guts right there to just be like, I'm gonna let you go and here's why. Cuz in my mind, hell, if you were to tell me that, you're like, Hey, I'm gonna let, I need you to do this, Michael. And I'm like, okay, but what if they get angry?and they don't even let me have my time to explain why, you know what I mean? They're just like, what if I just tell them immediately? Was that any of your fears or no? Angelica: Oh yeah. And, you know, I was just prepared if, if things got emotional I was just prepared to, or if there were any, if there was any, Arguing.Then I was just prepared to say, you know, this conversation is over. If you have any additional questions, you can email me at my email address. But I need the keys and your sensors and I'll walk you out. We'll gather your things and I'll walk you out. Michael: Was there ever any arguing or angry or No.Or ? Angelica: No just keeping it short and being very straightforward has been helpful. It doesn't really give time for people to get emotional. You know, the only negative thing I've had happen was, you know, after the fact after they were able to think about it. I got some mean messages from one person, but that's about it.Michael: Like Text messages, you mean? Yeah. Oh, okay. Gotcha. You gotcha. Yeah, after that, after the fact that if it was a text message, I'd be like, I, you know what I mean? Yeah. It was, yeah. All said and done. As long as you're not, no wonder I let you go, kind of thing. Right. You know? Yeah. Just kind of, okay. But like that.So if you could real quick, break it down for me. What's the beginning, middle, and end of this process for you? . Angelica: So the beginning is, I'm going to let you go. The middle is these are the reasons why. And typically when I let somebody go, they have already been write-ups filed. And so I'll have those write-ups on the desk.And then after I give him the reasons, I ask them, what questions do you have? Typically they don't have any questions. And then I ask them, so that's all the middle. The end is, okay, I need your keys, your sensor. Let's walk through the office and gather your things, and I'll walk you out the back door and that's the end.Michael: I like that. Okay, nice. Awesome. So would it be okay right now if we kind of dived into your startup a little bit? The business side of it? Sure. Okay. So you said the build out was, or how much your loan was? 500, right? Yep. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And then how much was your build out? Angelica: Oh, so. , my buildout. It's hard. I, I don't really have like the complete breakdown.It's been, it's been a little bit, but I think my buildout was around three 80 or Michael: so. Okay. Three 80. Mm-hmm. . How was that process? Was it pretty smooth? Not so smooth, really hard.Angelica: You know, my contractor was great.we had done all the planning for my build out in 2019. We had all the permits in place. and then Covid hit. My contractor was pretty busy cuz he is a popular contractor in this area. And so I felt like in the beginning it was kind of slow because he was working on so many different projects.But then the city of Denver shut down and they weren't issuing any new permits. And so some of the oth these other projects were. Permanently put on hold and they really couldn't move forward with anything cuz the permits weren't in place. Whereas with my practice, my project everything was in place and ready to go.And in my head I knew, you know, everything shut down, but my construction ramped up and I was like, oh no. Like before I was like, let's, let's speed it up, you know, this is moving really slow. And then when it started to speed up really fast, I was like, oh my gosh, like, let's slow down . Cause things were shut down right now.So that was stressful. How fast everything started to move because we had already done a lot of the leg work. In preparation for the build. Another thing that was really difficult was materials. All the materials that I picked out from my practice. I think I picked out maybe 10 different tiles from my bathroom floor and five different sinks for my operatories because I would pick one outfit was aesthetically pleasing to me.And then it was no longer available because manufacturing was down. Hmm. . And so, that was really stressful. Like everything in my practice, I feel like every single material had to be replaced so many different times because it, we just couldn't get our hands on the materials. Michael: Wow, okay. So that's the part that was holding it back?Yes. Okay. Okay. And then you officially opened when? Angelica: August of 20. Michael: Okay. And when you, in the process of like, about to open, because it was in March, right? March when it hit like really hard in the US Covid. Angelica: Yes. I closed my prac, my secondary practice on March 17th, and I reopened on May 5th. Okay. So like I have those dates burned in two lineMichael: So any, any of that time were you ever kind of. A little scared or just be like, Hey, you know what, just kidding with the startup part. I don't know if I wanna do this anymore. Or were, were you just like, no, we're gonna do it. We're gonna go through all this and, Angelica: oh, I had come so far. I was, I was ready to keep going and I wanted it to be finished.I wanted to open and start practicing in my new practice. Michael: Hmm. Okay. That's good. That's good. Really, really great mindset. So then, what type of practice do you have? I know you mentioned it was, Angelica: So we do airway, we do, we're, I'm a general dentist. Um, So we do a lot of your basic restorations. But we really, my team and I really love working on cosmetic cases and airway.Okay, cool. That's nice. My hygienist is uh, myofunctional therapist as Michael: well. Oh, really? On purpose? Mm-hmm. , that's what you were looking for on. Angelica: Well, she came in as a hygienist and she had a passion for airway and wanted to learn more. So I sent her to finish an airway training course.So she became certified as a myofunctional Michael: Nice. That's really nice. Okay, so then how many employees do you have? Angelica: I have not including myself. Four employees. Michael: Okay. And then they are, The roles. Angelica: I have an office manager. I have a hygienist slash myofunctional therapist, and then my two dental assistants are both cross trained for front desk and being in the back with me.Michael: Okay. And they all were part of the process of your business consultant hiring them? Angelica: They were all hired by my business consultant, Amy. Michael: Right? Yeah. Okay, nice. So that really did stream. Oh Angelica: my gosh. We we love doing, I don't, you can't see my office, right? I took down the balloons, but it was just my birthday and they surprised me by decorating my office.And we, and they're just very sweet and thoughtful and we all do that sort of stuff for each other. I've never worked with a team that has, that is so thoughtful. Michael: Yeah, that's beautiful. That's really, really nice. Okay, so then total production and collection, what does that look like? So like last month?Angelica: Last month? Well I was on vacation yeah. So then the month, but, but, but we still did, well we were at 70,000. Oh, for the Michael: month. Okay. And then, so how many ops do you have? Angelica: I know I have four working operatories. I started when I built my practice. I plumbed for four. I built out two. Because I knew it was gonna be a very slow start with my fee for service startup.Just last week I had the final two operatories equipped. Michael: Okay. And then how many days Angelica: are you open? Four days. Monday through Thursday. Michael: The hours are Angelica: are what? 7:00 AM to 4:00 PM Okay. So it's Michael: pretty Angelica: good. Our morning huddle starts. We everyone is ready for the morning huddle at 6:45 AM. Michael: Okay. What does your morning huddle consist of?Angelica: So my office manager starts the morning huddle. And there's typically three people who speak during the morning huddle. My office manager, my hygienist, and then one of my dental assistants. And they each fill out a day sheet outlining new patients. So my office manager starts with the numbers for the month we're currently scheduled at.you know, $50,000 of production for this month. Here are the opportunities for this week. We have openings today for an emergency here. We could do a bigger procedure in a couple of days, so think about that. We need to fill this hole. And then she goes over the production, what we're scheduled for, for the day.And of course, you know, just going over where we can increase that production, how we can increase it. , then it moves on to my hygienist. My hygienist will say, we have, you know, today we had six new patients, which is great. So she goes through the new patients and we talk about how we're going to make that appointment special for them.We have a relaxation menu, so they always get offered that, and we make sure that we have all of that stuff laid out and ready when they enter the operatory. We'll go over. Existing patients and if there are any medical alerts that we need to be aware of any outstanding treatment mm-hmm.and then it'll go to one of my dental assistants. They'll go over lab cases that we have in if there are any emergencies, new patients in their column. Any outstanding treatment that could be scheduled that hasn't been scheduled. So that we can take advantage of getting that scheduled. Michael: Okay. And that all roughly takes about 15 minutes.Yep. Angelica: Well, and uh, then if I have any questions, I'll, I'll ask some questions. If things were scheduled a little wonky, I'll ask why someone's coming in for a consult, whoever spoke to them on the phone. I'll ask, well, what was discussed? And then there's, it's fun. Is then we all kind of chit chat at the end and there's a lot of laughter.Patients come in and they're like, it sounds like you're having so much fun back there. . Mm-hmm. . And sometimes we'll have like some we'll take turns buying coffee for each other. So, we have our Starbucks order taped up on the refrigerator. So like, if somebody wants to treat the team to coffee, they know what we all like.And so if someone brought coffee in, we'll sit around and drink coffee for a few minutes. Eat bagels or donuts, whatever we have. So it's just fun because we really bond during that time. Michael: Yeah, that's nice. I like that. That's really good. Like having the. Coffee thing, Angelica: you know? Yeah. Like, cause it got to the point where people were like, oh, I wanna treat everyone to coffee.What, what do y'all want? And then we, they'd have to wait for everyone to text back and we all pretty much order the same thing every time. So we decided to write it out and we all have a, like, a picture of it on our phone. So if we just wanna surprise the, you know, the office of coffee will, we'll do Michael: that.I like that. That's really, really nice. Okay. And then real quick, how many patients are you getting? Angelica: We are getting about, I think our average is around 40. Michael: Okay. 30 to 40, yeah. That's good. Yeah. And then what are you doing for advertising and marketing? So, Angelica: my business coach really doesn't like me putting much money into marketing.Uh, we actually get, a lot of our new patients come from internal referrals, which is a big one for us. Google and Yelp. We have you know, five stars on Google and Yelp. We have really great reviews from some of our best patients. , there's a local newspaper that I have an add out and I pay about 180 a month for that ad.And really, we don't get many new patients from that, but I continue to support them because they're local. And we have some patients who work for the local newspaper and they come in and we chit chat. So I just keep that there just to support them. Other than that, I've done nothing up until last month.I started Google Ads because I was noticing that my reviews weren't showing up. So I had people saying, oh, did you see my review? I wrote you a nice review, and I said, oh, I don't think I saw that. It's not popping up. And then they would show me on their phone that they wrote me a review. And it would show on their Google account, but it wasn't showing on our pro, on our business profile.So I went through all, you know, I researched why, why would our reviews not be showing up? And I went through and, you know, there was nothing that would've made that happen. You know, we were a verified business. They just for some reason weren't posting our reviews. Mm-hmm. . And one of my colleagues said, well, why don't you pay for a Google ad and then you'll start seeing.Those reviews pop up. I paid for a Google ad and that same day my review started showing, are you serious? It had been months like it had been maybe three months since we saw a review. . And so that was kind of crazy to me. You know, I don't know how I feel about it. It seems like extortion to a certain Michael: Yeah.dirty Google. What? Yeah. Angelica: So, I mean, maybe it's not related in my mind. It seems like it is, but we are now getting reviews and we're paying for Google Ads. Michael: How much are you paying for Google ads? You don't mind me Angelica: I got a special, it's like a holiday special where you. $500 and you got two A, you got to post two ads.So that's what we did. So we've only invested $500 in in that. Michael: Yeah, man. But I didn't know that. I never knew that, that that's, yeah, I wouldn't, that sounds kind of, it sounds kinda like Yelp if you think about it. You know what I mean? Angelica: Yes, exactly. Hmm. So, but I know a lot of my colleagues have been struggling with their reviews not showing up and I mean, maybe there is a correlation between the two.Who knows? Michael: Yeah. No. Okay. I get you. And then what system would you say is unique in your practice right now that you created or maybe you have adopted where you're like, it's either our handoff from front to back, or it's our new patient? Angelica: So something that my business coach helped me put together was the new patient welcome, making them feel comfortable in the practice because I don't know if you've seen pictures of my practice, but it's very homey.I didn't want it to be a sterile or very clinical setting. I wanted it to feel like I have a fireplace in my waiting room and like a stack of logs and I've decorated my office almost like a. . And so when you walk in, it doesn't have that dental office feel. And I think that's the biggest compliment that we get from patients is they just love how it has a relaxed feel.It already puts them at ease when they walk in. But the one thing that we do that I really love is we give our new patients a tour of the practice. So when Reza, my hygienist, or. Margarita My dental assistants bring a patient back. As they're walking them back, they'll say, well, here's our restroom.And they'll show them the restroom. And this is our really cool C B C T. It takes a 3D image of your face. And Dr. CTO will go into more detail on that here in a sec. But we'll, we'll be returning to this room to take an image later. Here is our sterilization room and as they're walking them back, you know, I have a very open concept design but everything is very clean looking, very aesthetically pleasing.And so it's just nice as they're walking them back to show them where everything is and then they walk 'em into the operatory. And now the patient knows like, if I have to use the restroom, I don't have to ask anyone. I know where it is. It makes them more comfort. Michael: I like that you give 'em like an office tour.They make them, Hey, here's the rest of your home kind of thing. Yeah. Angelica: You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. , I like that. You can place your things on, on this stand here and you can hang your coat here and let me take your purse for you and they'll hang that up for them. And they've already looked at our relaxation menu.You, and so we'll have. You know, if they want essential oils an eye mask. We have Disney Plus we have TVs mounted above the all the chairs and we have Disney Plus on the screens. And so I'll ask them if they wanna watch something specific. We have noise canceling headphones. So yeah, we just trying to make them feel comfortable.Michael: Yeah, that'd be nice. How cool would it be like to be the first Disney sponsor? Practice . It's my dream. It's everything I've ever wanted. , . Okay, cool. So then one of the last questions I wanna ask you is throughout this process, I guess, from the moment you sold your prac, your second practice, or your fir, your first one, your acquisition to, to now, today, what's been some of your biggest or your biggest struggle or fail or pitfall Angelica: since selling my second practice?Mm. You know, well, of, of course we've already talked about managing people and, and hiring employees. I'd say couple, there are two things that come to mind. Mm-hmm. for me. One is implementing new procedures, like when I started with airway, just getting that into the practice and setting up a system for that. It's really stressful. You know, training everyone on the, on airway, especially when you have a, when I had a higher rate of turnover training people to take those special images that I need intraoral photos and measurements, that was really stressful.Retraining every single person who came into my office to do that. So implementing something new. And then we just invested in cic, so we have the prime scan, the prime mill, and the prime print. . And so going through all that training and making sure we were doing everything right anytime there's something new, it just gets a little bit more stressful.And then I think it's all around people managing people, right? So the second thing would be patient management. As a new dentist, when I came out of dental school, I felt like I let people walk all over me. I was scared to stand up for what I. Was right. And, you know, my confidence level wasn't the best because I was so new.So I think building that confidence, setting boundaries, even with patients not letting them because some people I feel like have been struggling with , you know, post covid, the post covid era. Mm-hmm. . Um, There are a lot of people struggling with personal issues and coming to the dentist. It's, it's no fun sometimes.And so they show the worst parts of themselves when they're anxious or scared. some people can come off quite mean or rude to a team member or even to me sometimes, and not letting that happen standing up for myself. That has. The biggest struggle, but something that I've really mastered this the past couple of years is building that confidence and standing up for myself and setting those boundaries.You get really good at setting boundaries when you have when you have children, because you'll do anything for your kid. Right. And it's sad because I was struggling and I didn't , I didn't treat myself very nicely. The things I was saying to myself weren't very good. And so I actually started going to therapy after around the time I sold my practice because I just, I needed help.I was struggling personally and going to a therapist, she really helped me to set those boundaries. And she said, you wouldn't treat your kid this way. You're beating yourself up over something a patient told you or something negative a patient said about you. And you're just, you're saying all these mean hurtful things about yourself in your head.You would never say that to your kid. And I'm like, you're right. I, I love my daughter. I would never treat her that way. And so then she was like, well, why would you treat yourself that way? And I just sat back, I was like, you're right. I need to be nicer to myself. I need to have more grace. Um, I need to set boundaries and don't let people get you down.I mean, , you do dentistry for a reason. You went to dental school for a reason. You're highly qualified, you know what's best in the dental realm. So, you know, stand up for yourself Michael: a little bit. Mm-hmm. , do you feel like you kind of slipped back into that sometimes? Angelica: Very rarely now. But when I first started out, oh yeah, Someone would say, Make a comment like, oh, you're taking so long on this filling. And I'm like, oh my gosh, did another dentist do it like so much faster than I did? Was it more comfortable? Like, am I a bad dentist? ? Yeah. And I, my, I would just go into a downward spiral. But I don't let myself do that anymore.Michael: Yeah, no, I get you a hundred percent. I remember one person told us, like, if you get on a train right to a Destin, And then you realize like the intercom guy or whatever is like, we're going here and you're like, crap, I'm supposed to be on the other train. Would you just say, I'm gonna go all the way to the very end of this destination, get there and then get off?Or what would you do? I'm asking what would you. Angelica: Yeah, I would change directions and, and reroute myself, Michael: right? Like on the next exit, wherever it's I'

Hey there, Michael Arias here, and on this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode, we're continuing the essential topic - patient retention. This episode is brought to you by the one and only Sandy Pardue, of Classic Practice, and our podcast Dental Drill Bits. Did you know that up to 50% of patients leave practices over the course of five years? That's a staggering number, but there are steps you can take to combat it. One of the simplest is to ask your patients how their last visit was and really listen to their answers. It's important to never give up on retaining patients, even if they've been inactive for years. With around 170,000 dentists in the US, it's crucial to stand apart by showing how much you appreciate your patients being there. Most importantly, don't forget to always keep an eye on your attrition numbers! It's hard to fix what we don't track, so these metrics are especially important for the health of your practice.Dive into my conversation with Sandy Pardue to learn more on patient retention!‍You can reach out to Sandy Pardue here:Classic Practice WebsiteDental Gumbo Facebook Group‍Other Mentions and Links:Dental Drill Bits PodcastADA - American Dental Association4 Seasons Hotels and ResortsThe Ritz-Carlton‍‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey, what's up Sandy? Sandy: Michael? Hey, I, I was just, uh, looking at our reviews on iTunes. Michael: Nice. Yeah. Guys, don't forget, if you can press pause right now. Go leave us a review on iTunes. Let us know how we're. And then come back and listen in. Cuz in this episode we're gonna be talking about something super important.I'm sure you're looking at the title Why Patients Lead. Sandy: Yep, yep, yep. This is a deep topic, . Okay. This the deep topic and for the listeners, and they've heard us talk about patient retention, which is gross. You know, we've talked about that. And, and for the new listeners, I mean, they'll, you just have to know this number if you say like, okay.Like 170,000 dentists. You hear these different reports, 166,000, 170,000. But we all know, cause you've worked in these practices that get at least 10 new patients a month. Right? Some of them are getting 20, 30, 40, 50, a hundred new patients a month. So I'm gonna say we know that at least 1.6 million people are changing dentists every single month in the United States of America Now.That being said, I saw another interesting statistic then from the American Dental Association that said that 25% to 50% of patients in any given practice are lost over a five year period. Whoa. That's crazy. Okay. I believe that, actually believe that could be worse now than it than ever. Because of so much of their automation, we have less personal contact.Mm-hmm. with people now because we're all living so fast and we count on text and that kind of thing. You need those personal, the personal contact for sure. But you know, when you look at people in general, and we already know that they don't love coming to the dentist. But why do they leave? And, and here's the thing.Most practices are not tracking this, and that's scary to me. Mm-hmm. , so they don't have any idea how many people are not coming back. And then the whole recall process is terrible in most practices. So what you need to do, I like to keep an attrition monitor. An attrition monitor. Now this could be as simple as having an Excel.Where your front office, every time they learn that somebody is left the practice, they put the name in and uh, their family members and why they're leaving. If they say they changed dentists because of insurance or they changed dentists and you don't know why, or maybe they moved out of town, maybe they died.So you've got all this information, okay, about that patient, and you can start to see who's leading. And I think that's very interesting to track. But the fact is that most practices don't do that. They don't really look close into their recall process to see that, okay, maybe in the beginning of October they had 300 people that needed a cleaning.They never go back in November and pull that same report and see that they still have 180 people that are due to come. In October, they did not come in. That's a huge problem, but why? Okay, why? Why is this happening? Number one, no one's watching. Number two, no one's following up. That is huge. And number three, nobody's actually tracking it, so, Those are the things that the practices need to implement versus, here's the thing, and I was explaining this to a friend of ours yesterday who was looking for a local dentist and he's been going to somebody and he is not having a success with some work that he, major work that he was having done and this particular practice he's been going to, I see a lot of TV ads and things and I'm, so that tells me, and I happen to know they're getting about 150 new patients a month and they've been getting 150 new patients a month for 10.So where are the people going? They haven't had to hire more hygienist, right? This is telling me that people are coming in and they're not staying. So practices that are listening, you need to be paying attention to this. But one thing you can do, this'll help you get some of them back and find out while they're leaving.Now you guys, you've heard me talk a lot about the reactivation program that I, I love, and that's like sending. Postcards with return service address on there. So you get back the, to see who moved without ever having to call them. You, they call you, you get back about 20% without a phone call. It's a great project to do, but uh, you could also do a fall insurance letter.That's a great thing to do right now. These are all activities to get people, but you've gotta communicate and you've gotta find. Why they're leaving. Okay. When you do this type of activity that I'm about to describe, you'll learn a lot about your practice. So what you wanna do is. Somebody that's a good communicator in your practice.If it's been around and they know some of these patients, that's even better. You wanna get them on the phone, they start calling and you let 'em know we're updating our patient records and we notice you haven't been in for a while. And then zip it up, let them talk now. And uh, they see what they say.Well, yeah, I know I need to get in. Or they say, well, I've changed Dennis, or I'm never coming back there. And that's when you. That pointed question. If I asked you a question, how was your last visit here? And then listen and see what you can learn. See what you can learn. Now, if somebody immediately says, put me in your inactive files, okay, , and sometimes they do that and sometimes they might just hang up, but you can't be scared of them.You just keep doing, and that's where your scheduler is gonna try to discover any problems, because here's the. Patients can act crazy, but most of them are not gonna be crazy. And then sometimes when we meet these practices that are constantly firing patients, they are firing people less than, right? Well, I promise you that many people aren't crazy when you've got the practice two doors down, that never fires anybody.That tells you that the people inside the practice are the ones running them off. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Michael: Yeah, that does, that makes a lot of sense. And I like that. So we're asking them almost like as a post-op kind of thing, right. Once they're home or something, we ask them, how was your last visit here?Or once they're in the practice, we're like, Hey, the visit before this, how was that? Yeah. Sandy: Or, or say it like, can I ask you a question? I'll always like to say that first. Mm-hmm. and, and with a high pitch at the end. Can I ask you a question? And wait, how was your last visit here? That just opens up a conversation and that's when they come out with all kinds of things.Like they left me in that chair and nobody tam to check on me. I was so thirsty. I was . You know, people get upset about things, right? They get quoted the wrong fees, the fee changes. Nobody told them in advance. Thought they were gonna see Susan, but uh, April was the hygienist. You know, they get, there's all these reasons because people are really sensitive about their mouths.Okay. I'm just gonna tell you, people are super sensitive about their mouths. They are. And so, and people are just, they expect good customer service, especially people. West High expectations, more successful people. You know, they're used to going to the Four Seasons or the Ritz Carlton, and you want these kind of patients.You know why they have money and they have rich friends, and so you wanna cater to these people. You don't wanna make them mad, and so you've gotta make sure we talk a lot about the tone of the office. Well, you've gotta make sure that your team is supporting you and your view. And they're happy to be there and they're wearing smiles cuz all of these things contribute to patients leaving.They have a lot to do with your attrition. So you've got your team supporting you and complimenting you. A practice should be growing, not shrinking. So every year you should be growing and need, you need to hire more people. It's because you're retaining and growing these people that say they're never coming back.You need to let them know the person that's calling, well, I'm sorry. We're not gonna be seeing you here again. We sure did enjoy having you as a patient. You know, a lot of times people when they hear something like that, they may be in between of leaving the practice. Maybe they were going to leave and then they got this phone call and they heard something like, And they, they never found that other dentist, so they will go ahead and appoint.You can, you should never give up on your patients. I had somebody I saw in Dentaltown recently where he said he was gonna inactivate everybody that hadn't been in 18 months. Well, my gut got real tight. Okay. I'm just like, ugh. Because I know how hard it is to get those new patients and 18 months goes by really fast.Mm-hmm. , I went 15 months without getting my teeth cleaned. Last time I did Sandy Cardew, I did , and so it just made everything. I'm glad my dentist didn't inactivate me. That's insane. Of course, I know how to take care of my. And, you know, I have a little scaler at home, so I believe me, I'm, I'm okay. But you, you know, people leave most of the time cause of the service they received or they felt like it wasn't fair or they didn't like they were treat the way they were treated.That's what they always remember how they were treated. So that one phone call to follow up on these people that hadn't been. Instead of saying, hi, this is Sandy from Dr. Gutes, I was calling to set up an appointment. You know you're gonna be more personable with them. Letting them know, with missed seeing you, doctor asked me to call.And you do it in such a kind voice. You don't, it's not just, I'm following them, schedule an appointment to you or send a text like I got yesterday. It's time for your cleaning. I didn't even say what dental office it was from . I was like, who is. Was it from my husband or me? I didn't, you know, and then I saw the text, and by now I've gotten about 25, 30 other texts and I forgot all about it until I was just talking about it here, , Michael: until right now.I was just talking about, yeah, exactly. So then the, the three points keep, no one's watching, no one's following up, no one's tracking. No one's watching is we have to keep an attrition monitor. Right? Yeah. And that. What is that in our practice management Sandy: software or No, you need to create your own Excel document, Michael: and that is you're literally looking at who needs to be reactivated.You're following up with the Sandy: calls and stuff. The attrition monitor are the people that have left the practice. Those are the people. You're gonna only enter the people that are not coming back, so, You have pulled a report from your dental software, you see who hasn't been in for a long time. Go back three years, go back five years, you have a smaller practice, go back five years.Then what happens is as you're making these calls, then you find out someone's not coming back. They're entered on that sheet. So it could be that they moved out of town. They changed dentists. They changed dentists because of insurance. I wanna put that in a separate category. So let's see, what did I say?Change dentists, say Joseph of insurance and moved out of town and deceased. So, and then I like to send a letter to every one of them. If they're deceased, they get a sympathy, the family gets a sympathy. So some type of communication goes to them. Even if they changed Dennis, it's because of insurance. I want them to know that they're welcome to come back to the practice.And so I'm calling these people, it's like I'm, I'm calling all these people that haven't been in, and I'm not calling them for a cleaning. I'm calling them because doctor asked me to call. Cuz we miss seeing them in the practice and I'm continuing this conversation letting them know how much we've enjoyed seeing them on a regular basis.You know, ideally we're gonna reactivate them. If they say, oh, well you know what, I'm not coming back. Or, you know, my grandson is a dentist. Now, you know, or you are gonna tell you all these things. Or if you don't really know the reason why, it's okay to say, well, in order to complete our clinical records, may I ask why you wish to become inactive for the reason, and then they'll tell.And then you make sure that you put that in, in the computer file. And if it's like a, it's, it's an upset. You know, a lot of times when you're talk to these people, you realize they're upset about something, some misunderstanding or, or bad communication somewhere. You've gotta get that handled. You've gotta report it to the doctor and get it handled cuz they're gonna go around and tell everybody.Michael: Mm-hmm. . Okay. Okay. And then that's how you keep it, the monitoring, right? The attrition you have to follow up with. every Sandy: week. To me it should be going ongoing. Like every day she's making a few calls and she's putting on the list, and then doctor as or the manager says, oh, can I see our attrition list? How are we doing?Oh my goodness, look at this. We learned out of those calls that she made in a week that we lost 25 patients. It's just data. Okay? Running a business, you've gotta have data. Stats are everything. I love them. They, they give you a picture of everything going on, and so that. If you have a lot of people leaving the practice, you need to know.And if you're not keeping up with it, you don't really know it, or you just know a number and you don't know who it was. So I like to communicate to the people that leave because they do come back. I've seen that first in, and they'll come back. Michael: Gotcha. So then what do we do in this scenario when they're like, oh, you know what?Yeah, I didn't like that. Uh, I didn't like that this person did that. Or did something happen? That's why I left. I, I'm finding another person. Right. Is. Are we trying to win them back or is it more like, oh my Sandy: goodness, always, because if you don't, they're going to go talk around town for the next 10 years about you.It's always better to have friends. It's always better to have really good relationships in life. Um, you know, it's never good to have somebody that's not happy with your service. And, you know, people, like, if you think about, you know, why, like, why would I stay at my dental office? Well, you know, I kinda like 'em.I like how I feel when I go in there. Everybody's really friendly and I feel comfortable because I'd been there for a long time. And I feel like that work has lasted, that, that dental work. I mean, it, that's what people say, things like that. Right? Or, you know, they love it when they get like, oh, you know, I get my birthday cards from my dentist.He's the first one that sends me a birthday card every single month. And people like that, they like it. Or, or you can hear 'em talking like, oh, my dentist, this is, this is what my husband's friend told me yesterday. I like this, Dennis. He's got a lot of good UpToDate technology. Hmm. He said, but I, I just don't like what he's doing with my den.And I'm like, okay. So this is a guy that my husband has known for about 50 years that he worked with about 50 years ago. And every year they have a phone conversation. And that was yesterday. And I overheard some of this conversation. So he has an upper denture and he w, he was in an accident years ago and he lost some of his teeth.So he is trying to, he want some implants, he's trying to do some work with to his mouth and he doesn't like what's happening. So he calls us and starts telling us about all this You. And that's what they do. He said, you know what, one thing I do like too is they gave me his, an emergency number after I had my surgery there.And so that was the thing that impressed him. So he was impressed that the technology, he was impressed that he got that doctor said, look, if you have any problems, give me, um, you know, give me a call at this number. And so you're giving them kind of like you're impressing them and they have like a reason to, to stay.And they're, they're looking if they found your practice and they're gonna stay. If you have, number one, a good care system, number two, you are communicating with them for that recall process, right? You're reaching out, you're in the calling, you're texting, you're sending cards, whatever it is you're doing, you're not being idle.And I'm telling. The way they feel when they come in there, in that atmosphere and the technology and how easy it is to get an appointment. Those are the things that they are gonna like. Oh, and, and look, we had a friend that told us this at dinner one night. It's like every time I go to the dentist, I'm telling you, I, it's like he's mad and he's just assistant, he's like throwing the instruments down and I don't know what's going on.Look, those are the little things that make a difference in the practice. Okay? So you can't, you can't do that. You cannot do that. And, and the way the team are interacting with each other. Yeah. They also, the things that's gonna have them stay to your practice is because, you know, if you come across. That you're rushed being impatient or you know, you seem like you're mad at your employees, they're mad at them, or you're not telling them what's going on with their mouth.The last hygienist I saw was so good and she, she knew I was in the dental industry, but I think she probably does this with all the patients. So she was like telling me constantly, you know, what she was gonna be doing and um, yeah. And if they feel like. Overcharging or focusing on money, that'll be a turnoff for sure.I think that if the practice is giving them more reasons to stay, you're, they're gonna be fine. Being aware of who's coming, leaving. Okay. Who's staying? You've gotta, you gotta take care of your patients. . Michael: Yeah, I like that. Like it's, as long as we don't see it, like you said, idly by. Right. Like, give them more reasons to stay than to leave.Right. I mean, maybe mistakes will happen. The more can compensate for that, right? Yeah. Um, and then monitor them. Any final words for this Sandy: episode? The only other thing I wanna add, Michael, is I would like for everybody to start watching that attrition number and know how many patients they're retaining.That is the most important statistic that you can keep. You're always looking for new patients. Let's close the back door. Let's keep some of those patients as you currently have. Michael: Gotcha. Awesome. So guys, if you want to talk about this episode, come on the podcast or submit any questions. Then you can do so by joining the Facebook group Dental Gumbo.And at the same time, don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us out a ton. So please go ahead and do that. And thank you guys so much for tuning in, and we'll talk to you in the next Sandy: episode. Yeah, Rebe, have fun. Reactivating those patients.‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: Katherine Eitel BeltBusiness Name: LionSpeakCheck out Katherine's Media:‍LionSpeak Communication Training OptionsLionSpeak Calibration Retreat‍‍Other Mentions and Links:The 5AM Club: Own Your Morning. Elevate Your Life.Wizard of OzInvisalignBlue Cross Blue Shield InsuranceLions Peak Winery‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Communication is essential to building a strong team and patient relationships.Don't forget to invest in team culture! It's not all about how much you're paying employees. They want purpose, support, and acknowledgment as well.Always lead with what your practice DOES offer rather than what it DOESN'T. This is especially true when handling those tricky questions involving insurance.Don't be afraid of the price question. If a potential patient is asking about price, it means they are looking to buy!When on the phone with potential patients, be sure to establish a relationship before asking for details.If you aren't the cheapest practice in town, you will have to sell the value of your practice rather than the price point.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Katherine, how's it. Katherine: It's going great. So glad to be with you this morning. No, Michael: thank you for being on. We truly, truly appreciate it. I know we're not far from each other. You're experiencing We just had a ton of rain, huh?Katherine: We did, but it's made everything, uh, gorgeous and green and the snowcap mountains. And I heard we're gonna have a super bloom because of the rain on the Michael: flowers. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's gonna be beautiful here in southern California. , but Awesome, Catherine. So can you tell us a little bit about your past, your present?How'd you get to where you are? Katherine: Yeah, so I come from dentistry. I started in college as a chairside dental assistant and eventually worked my way up to the front office area in the administration area of a practice and managed a large practice. eventually my career led me into practice management consulting for several decades, and then about 10 years ago.I narrowed my focus to communication skills, coaching only, and primarily still within dentistry though, we do some corporate work and some work, uh, in, I would call it discretionary healthcare fields, but primarily dentistry. And, we like to describe our company. My company is Lion Speak and the overarching umbrella is communications coaching.But under that umbrella, . We basically deliver that in three different sectors. So one sector we describe as patient facing or customer facing communications. So we talk and teach a lot on telephone skills and converting new patient phone calls, especially difficult ones. And then also case presentation, financial discussion with patients.We have a lot of practices transition off of insurance plans and all the communication that's needed for that. Our second lane is described. Team facing communications. So, team culture, leadership. We turn a lot of managers on how to have something we call courageous conversations in a really productive way.I'm writing a book on that right now, and we're getting ready, to release an on-demand video training series on that in April. . And then our third lane is described as audience facing communication. So we have a train the speaker and a train the trainer program there. and that's for anybody who wants to speak from the stage or even for practice owners that have large practices that may need to address their company or a board or anything like that, uh, on a regular basis.Then we help them with their presentation skills. So, Where I've come from and, and where we are today. Michael: Okay, nice. So let's rewind a little bit. You said you started as a chairside dental assistant, Uhhuh, and then you worked your way up to the. , why, why didn't you just stick to, you know what I mean? Like, okay, you know, I'm gonna do more clinical and stuff like that.Yeah, Katherine: well, I think, I think I got there a, the way a lot of administrators got there, I was sort of thrown into it. Uh, our, the administrator office manager that we had was in a car accident and actually didn't come back to the practice for over a year. So we were all just sort of pitching in, you know, pinch hitting for our team and it stuck, I guess I was.Had some talent or was good at it and good on the phone, good with patients. And so I ended up, they ended up hiring another assistant and I ended up staying up front, and eventually moving on to manage a practice. and so I love both. I loved them equally. I loved chairside, with patients. I loved dentistry and providing it, but I also loved, the management of a team and, the systems, you know, management that was required from an administrator's position.Okay. Wonderful. Michael: Yeah. And then why did you narrow your focus to just communications? Katherine: Ah, interesting question. So I think something happens when you hit your fifties . I think you're looking at your, you know, yardstick of your life and one half's looking a little shorter than the other half. Mm-hmm. . and I think, you I looked at my business, it was a very successful prac, uh, dental practice consulting business.but there was a sliver that I enjoyed more than the rest. it's not that I don't understand how to set goals and track metrics or read a p and l. Uh, obviously I own my own business and, and helped many, but, or that I don't understand insurance coding and things like that. But that was never, it never lit me up.what did light me up was helping dental professionals step into their potential by communicating at a much higher level. And so it was a bit of a jump off the cliff. I mean, I had people say, you know, I don't think, I don't think dentists or really small businesses are gonna pay for communications coaching only outside.Practice management and I wasn't sure they would either, but uh, turns out 10 years later, here we are and turns out they will. So, I think I have a knack for it. It was definitely, I wanted to spend the rest of my career working on the topics that I most enjoy teaching, and also with clients that I most enjoy working with.So it was a bit of a narrowing of my focus. Michael: That's nice. I like that. Yeah, you're like inching down, you know what I mean? And it's good. Yeah. Inching down. Exactly. Right. I like it. So out of the, the three lanes that you mentioned, which do you see people returning and kind of saying like, we need this. I would assume it's team because, you know, teams are changing all the time, but like, where do you see where it's never ending?All Katherine: three. all three. Okay. So patient facing, obviously we have new people coming on board. We have, you know, older, personnel that's been with us a long time or been in the industry a long time that sometimes needs a refresher. so we see. ongoing there. We have clients returning year after year, after year.Mm-hmm. , but certainly for team facing. We do something called, um, what in our leadership coaching we do, something called a calibration retreat. And many of our clients have us back year after year to facilitate that retreat. It's called a calibration retreat because it calibrates it's intention is to calibrate the team with the owner's future vision.At that moment, how they see the future and what they're trying to create from that vantage point. and also the standards, the cultural standards that they, that are important to them. And so our job is to make sure that the owner's crystal clear about that for themselves first. Mm-hmm. , and then articulates that very clearly to the team.And that we are able to facilitate a discussion at least once a year about, inviting people, which is a very d. Idea than demanding, inviting people to, cross the threshold into helping us achieve this vision and to align with these cultural standards. So there is no doubt right now given the shortage of employment that we're seeing sort of at a crisis level, we had clients that we've worked in different, maybe different areas that have come back, maybe post Covid.They were like, well, you know, culture, you know, it's important, but I don't know if I wanna, mm-hmm. And all of a sudden they're calling and going, okay, I get it. I can't, I can't keep people, I mean, they're going down the street for a few dollars more an hour because, , they feel there's, that the cultures are the same.Yeah. Or one is better than the other. And so I get now that it's more than just what I pay. Yeah. I have to create a work environment where people have clarity, where they have, they feel a part of something bigger and they feel supported. So, helping. Owners and managers and leadership create that environment is what we're all about.So you can imagine there's just like booming business in that lane. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, as, as practices have scaled with multi-location, lots of doctors, There's a point, sort of kind of a crossover point about five practices in, if their intention is to grow, and scale at about that juncture, we find that they need to create a middle layer of management and often of training, internal training.And so in our third lane, we're doing a very robust business right now in helping. Managers or, or dental personnel that gets, advanced or promoted into those, uh, training or management positions to learn how to coach their people. They often are really good at their job. It'd be a, someone gets promoted cuz they're a great hygienist or a great administrator, but when we promote them into a leadership position or a management position, even a team lead, they often fail because the skills you need to.Really great hygienist and team player are a little different than what you need to grow and coach your people. So we're doing a lot of work in that area to help these new managers learn those skills. So it's hard for me to pick a lane cuz we're busy in all of them. Yeah, Michael: no, that's good though. That's good.And I like how you mentioned on the other one where it's like you want to feel, you want your team to feel bigger than it. they want, they wanna feel a part of something bigger than, you know what I mean? What it is. I know a couple of hygienists, they're hygienists, Catherine Hygienists and dental assistants who left for like, oh, in and out, has way better structure and organization and I feel like I'm, I'm going somewhere with them, you know, or another, you know, it's so different industry, but they're doing that.So, I wanna ask you, I wanna dive into two specific ones. Okay. Ones that we, uh, discuss all the time. Here is one of 'em. Let's, let's dive into that. One is telephone skills and converting difficult New patient phone. . Okay. How can we, what are some pointers, instructions that you can give us for this?Katherine: Well, we're known as the unscripted communications coaching company because I dislike scripts very much. I don't think they work. I get why we invented them, very popular in the seventies and eighties, even into the nineties. Scripting was really popular. . And I remember my boss at one time hiring a consultant, and it was overall a really great experience, but I remember the day he plopped down a three ring binder full of scripts for everything we were supposed to do in the dental practice.And I remember reading some of those and thinking these were the Hokies things I ever read. Like I couldn't, yeah, I couldn't imagine th saying it that way through my personality and sounding mm-hmm. like normal and so, . I get why scripting came about though, because as a businesswoman, I definitely want to have consistency of service and consistency of brand and messaging in my company.Like I wouldn't want you to call and talk to Kelly and have a completely different experience and get completely different information than you might if you talked to Stacy, right? Mm-hmm. . I do. I do. I do think that the idea of scripting was to give us consistency for branding, for messaging, for all of that, and so I get.and I do think it's important, but I'm the kind of gal that says, why do I have to choose between consistency of message in my business and authenticity and connectivity with my patients. and my customers. Mm-hmm. . And so likewise, I don't want you to call and talk to Kelly and get a robotic. , like she's a robot.And then it's the same exact experience when you talk to Stacy. Mm-hmm. . So I want, I want their personalities to come through. I want you as a customer to think, I, I spoke to a human being who heard me and had a, developed a relationship with me and was present in this moment, not reading from a memorized script.So I'm the kind of girl who says, I don't wanna choose, I want both. And I think you can have both. And you do. With frameworks. Frameworks similar to scripting in that we require everyone to agree to that framework and we hold them accountable. We test them, we teach them, we train them, and we hold them accountable through ongoing coaching to that framework.But within the framework, they get to be who they are as long as they hit the points of the framework. We say if they're funny, we want 'em to be. . If they're kind and sweet and gracious, that's how they're wired, then let's be a big version of that. We teasingly say if they're direct, they just need to be careful.yes. But, but they get to be who they are and, I like that. I think patients respond well to that. It's how we train everyone, that we train on communication. If we're training a speaker on the stage to be a better speaker, we don't want them to sound like Catherine. , we want them to sound like the best version of them, their personality to come shining big through that stage performance.But we do want them to get the points across to the audience that they've agreed to speak on. You know, so they're, again, there's a framework, but within their framework we get to be who we are. So that's first. tips on telephone skills. So our framework is a simple four step Process for.almost every single new patient phone call that you could imagine. And there's really a top five. There's the patient that calls and asks the price of something, which is challenging. There's the patient that calls and asks for a checkup or a cleaning, you know, they're not really, they have no real urgent need.they just wanna stay current. Right? And so they call asking, usually the question is a checkup or a cleaning. The third one is, they have an emergency, they have some level of urgency of a toothache, or they have a broken tooth or something doesn't feel quite right. Or they have, you know, they want something whitened before their wedding.There's some sense of urgency. Mm-hmm. and some more immediate need. there is also a couple of other questions that come up. They're, they're not actually. A need, but they're the first question that gets asked. One of those is, are you on my plan? Now, that's not actually why they're calling. It's usually something else.It always is something else, but it's the first question that they ask, and it's what administrators are faced with. Answering, and that's easy to answer if you are a provider on the plan. It's a little more challenging if you're not, and lots and lots of practices struggle with that question. So those are the kinds of questions that we coach on.and so my t my quick tips, I mean, of course we, we take a lot longer than this interview to, to train people to be experts at this, but high level tips would be this. the first thing you have to accomplish is get in relationship with this caller. So what tends to happen is they'll say, hi, I was calling, I've got a a bit of a toothache, and I was wondering if the doctor could see me today.and what we hear we do, we do thousands of mystery shopper calls a year for our clients. And I'd love to talk about how we do that a little differently, in a, in a bit. But we, but we, we listen to a ton of calls every year and more often than you might think. It's, it's actually very frequent and very, uh, often that we hear someone will answer that question with a another question of, what insurance do you?So here they've said, I've got a tooth that's bothering me. I'd like to know if I could be seen today. And they say, okay, well do you have insurance? What insurance do you have? So what happens with that response? It's not coming from a mean person. It's coming from a person who's got three lines on hold and two people are checking out and they got a lot going on.Mm-hmm. . And they're trying to be efficient, but what, how it sounds to a patient is all you care about is getting paid. and so what we first teach. Before you ever answer any question, say, well, I'm really glad you called. I mean, again, in your own words, but I'm really glad you called us. Welcome to our practice.My name is Catherine, and what was your name, right? Let's get on a first name basis. . So the first thing I think is how can I get their name? How can I welcome them? And then I will usually, if they don't offer, I was referred by this person, or I found you on the internet, or however. So if they say, I was, my neighbor said I should call you.I say, oh, well who's your neighbor? that's so awesome of her to refer you. And how long have you guys. Next to each other. You know, just I, if, if someone says, you know, I just moved to the area and my someone at work said I should call you. I say, well, where'd you move from? How long have you been here?How do you like it so far? I mean, there's a thousand questions you could ask. That's the no scripting part. Mm-hmm. , ask whatever feels natural to you and to the conversation, but don't skip the principle of walking through the door and getting in relationship with that person. So one way to get in relationship is to walk through any open door They.Now that's gonna be really annoying to a patient that's in pain. So if a patient that is in pain and they express that, or even any high urgency, . We don't wanna say, well gosh, how long have you worked there? You know, and it's annoying. So what we wanna connect with is empathy. We wanna say, before we ever answer their question, we wanna say, well, I'm, I'm really sorry to hear that you've been in some discomfort.I'd love to learn a little bit more about that and how we can get you seen quickly and get you feeling better soon. So I just want you to know, I, I get it and I'm, and I'm really sorry to hear that, you know, just some empathy that says, I heard you and I actually care about it. it's less than 30 seconds.It's not a long time, but do not skip this step. So that would be my first tip. Second tip is get in control of the phone call. And I'll tell you, Michael, if your listeners took only one thing away from this, Discussion about telephone skills. Mm-hmm. and even maybe communications in general. If they took this next point away, they'd have the keys to the kingdom if they would remember that.Whoever, in any conversation, Like in this interview, in any conversation, the person that's asking the questions is actually controlling the direction of the conversation. So in our exchange today, you're asking the majority of the questions. You're steering what we're gonna talk about. You're steering the direction of our conversation, which is as it should be, it's your podcast.But when people call a dental, it's usually the patient that's holding that baton of control because they say, are you on my plan? How much do you charge for a crown? can I get my teeth cleaned? You know, can I be seen today? so they've got the control and instead of thinking, my job is to answer all their question.An administrator would be better served to say, my job is to gently reach through that phone, connect with them personally, gently grab that baton of control and bring it back over here where I can steer and control the conversation. That's the biggest mistake most people make in our mystery calls is they don't get control of the call early.And how you do it is you answer their question with another question. So I might say, if they said, you know, how much do you charge? whitening. I might say. Well, I'm so glad you called. We do whitening. A lot of whitening, really good at it. So welcome to our practice. Uh, my name's Catherine and what was your name, right?I connect with them somehow. Then one, once I felt like I've connected, then I say, so I'm happy to answer your question about the whitening. I just wanna make sure I give you the right information, and schedule the right appointment. So, would you mind if I ask you a few more questions or a couple of.now who's got the baton of control, they feel like they're gonna get their question answered. So they're not resistant in any way. But I have not answered their question. I've actually just reached through the phone and brought the control over to me. Mm-hmm. , and now I get to steer this with a line of questioning that will help me determine, really the only two things that an administrator ever needs to determine on a new patient call.One is, which of the two appointments we have to offer is best a comp. or a limited exam, which of those is the best for this patient? And it is often different than what they asked for. Lots of people asked for a cleaning, but what they really want is to have a tooth checked. Lots of people asked to have a tooth checked, and what they would be more than willing to do is have all their teeth checked.So, I mean, that's not always the case, but it often is the case. So when someone says, I was wondering if I could schedule a cleaning, I think in my mind, well, we'll see. We'll see. Depends on how you answer my questions. Mm-hmm. , I'm not just gonna schedule you for a new patient exam and cleaning until I've taken you through a line of questioning and my, all my questioning is about urgency.That's, it's all about urgency because the only thing that drives them, or should drive them to a limited exam that I'm gonna shove into the middle of a full schedule should be urgency. And if it isn't urgent, then I'm gonna try to direct them and steer them to a comprehensive exam. that's the one thing I have to determine.The second thing I have to determine with my line of questioning is, what else do they care about? What are other hot buttons? is it the discomfort? do they also have some money concerns or financial concerns? Do they have, maybe they're concerned about getting some, you know, disappointment but missing too much work.maybe they have an upcoming event. They want the work to be done before, so I'm trying to find out what else do they care about so that when I step into to my step number three in the framework, I can give back to them. The right appointment and why it's perfect for them. Options on times and dates, and then I'm also gonna promote the practice.back through the filter of what they said they cared about. So if I discerned that they cared about money, then I'm going to maybe mention, I'm so glad you found us because you mentioned that you were a little bit concerned about the cost of this treatment and, we have lots of patients that have expressed that concern and we are really exceptionally good at helping patients with a variety of.Financial options to afford the care that they need and want. So once you come in, we'll find out exactly what you need, and then the two of us will sit down and we'll look at a variety of options. And we almost always are able to help patients find something, that helps them afford the care that they want comfortably.So I look forward to that com. You know, so it's mm-hmm. , my, my feeling is that it's our. to promote the pr. It's not the patient's job to sell themselves on us. It's our job to sell them on us. And so once in step two, I've discovered what really matters to them and which appointment would be appropriate.Then in step three, I'm actually giving that to them, but I'm, but I'm stepping into actively promoting this practice through the filter of what I've discerned they care about. So, and then in step four, take care of the details. That's where we get insurance details. That's where we give them directions and that's where we reconfirm the appointment or get whatever, you know, whatever the details are.But one of the big mistakes, Michael, that administrators make without training, and I'm, I've made all of these mistakes, one of the mistakes we often make is we let the computer screen for a new patient account guide our. And the computer screen for a new patient account wants to know address and phone and email and insurance information.None of those help us with those two questions. What appointment is appropriate and what else do they care about that I can promote the practice to? So those questions, in my opinion, should be later in the call. Once we schedule an appointment, then all those things matter. But what does it matter what their address is or their email is?if I haven't even sold them on the practice and we don't have them scheduled for an appointment. So I, I wanna, my questions on step number two are geared toward discovering the level of urgency and what else do they care? What are their hot buttons so that I can manage that well in step three. So those are some tips that I think, if people could really focus on restructuring where they guide and how they guide a patient, they'd do so much better, in those phone calls. Michael: Wow. Okay. So these are the four major steps for this framework. And you mentioned you do mystery shopper calls, Uhhuh for your clients. How does that work?Like what were, how do you do. . Katherine: It's really kind of a scary proposition for most administrators if they're honest. . it's scary for anyone, you know, I'm a speaker and trainer and coach and, I've been invited to do some pretty big keynotes here in the next year or so. Mm-hmm. and, uh, they're bigger audiences than I'm used to addressing normally.And so I reached out for some additional coaching for that keynote and the first thing my coach said is, I want you, One of your next upcoming speeches, I want you to record it and I want you to watch it and self evaluate your, you know, your performance. And then I will do the same and we'll come together and talk about it.And it was painful. It was painful to listen to myself, to watch myself. It's very hard. But as a professional, . I wanna continue to grow. I wanna grow my income. I wanna grow my value, I wanna grow my performance. And so to do that, I've gotta have the courage to listen and watch myself. And so I would say to administrators or anyone, in the dental field, if you want to advance your career, if you wanna be paid top dollar, I mean, imagine being able to lay down at your next review, your next performance review, four or five mystery shopper calls that were perfectly score.and you've got tens across the board. I mean, those are the kinds of talents that, managers and leaders and owners are wanting. to pay for. So I like that. Um, one of the things I'll say about Mystery Shepherd calls is that we have some competition that I think does it very poorly.And because they have done it very poorly, it has turned a lot of people off to the idea as a whole. And I think we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think it's just been done poorly. So for example, We don't do any sneak attacks. If we're gonna do mystery sharper calls and we agree to do them and a client hires us, it's with the understanding that we will train first.We will help people to get better first, and we will show them the scorecard. We will train them against the scorecard so that they have some input, they have can, can ask their questions, get whatever. We're not trying to catch people doing. We're trying to help them get better and so no sneak attacks.The other thing is we don't use, we use normal people for the calls, asking normal questions. We're not trying again to trick people. We're trying to say, can we get you and help get you significantly better with the normal caller? So asking the normal questions that that patients ask. So, you know, we're not dragging people off the street to do this.We. , regular moms and dads or even have a couple of retired dentists that make calls for us, but they're asking normal questions and, and I think if we get good with those, then we've, you know, we've, we've scaled the mountain. so those are some of the things. The others, we never play these calls before, anybody without their permission.Hmm. So sometimes. Somebody says, I want my team to hear this call. I want 'em to hear how much noise they were making in the background while I was trying to handle this call and how that sounds on the phone. So sometimes they say, please do play it, but unless we get their permission, well, first of all, unless we get their written permission, we never even make the calls we want.Mm-hmm. , the individual's written permission over the next year to do these and to sit down with them and to go over the results and help them get better. with one exception. Of course, whoever hired us to do these, they get to listen to it. But other than that, we wouldn't play it before a department or a team or anyone else, unless we had that person's permission.Again, we're not interested in embarrassing or catching someone. We wanna build you up and make you say, that was one of the best things I ever did and it, and it helped my career. it's, it's important I think that we treat people the way we would wanna be treated. So if you're interested in advancing your career or you're interested in helping your people advance their careers, and convert more callers on the phone, I think teaching them well and then getting them a coach that can be their support person to, you know, hold them accountable to, to what we've agreed to is, is super, is super important.Yeah. Michael: What about Catherine, the type of, patients that. I a hundred percent agree. Like we, we do need to get control of the, I love that how you said, like, and that's a huge principle. Like what, okay, the one asking the questions is the person, you know what I mean? And then at the same time, you wanna show that empathy.Like, sure, who doesn't want, who doesn't love that? Who doesn't like you get it? You, you get that? I'm in pain, right? But what about those patient. Because I remember working in the front office and we would get a lot of the times where they're like, well, what does that matter? Like, it's almost like they were really short with me, where it's like, just, do you take it or do you not?That's all I need. Do you take it or do you not? And I'm, I kinda Katherine: wanna you insurance on Michael: insurance when, whether it comes with insurance or whether they're like, do you have an appointment right now, or no? Yes or no? Like, they were very short. So how do we, how do we deal with that? Like I feel like when that happened, everything went out the window that I Katherine: learned, you know?Well, it doesn't really, So, you know, if I were, I travel a lot because I speak a lot. Mm-hmm. . so if I, let's say I, I'm waiting for a plane. I bite down on something. Maybe I have a little popcorn or something. I bite down. I think maybe, Ooh, I think I, maybe I chipped that tooth, right? I'm on the Jet Way board in the plane.I call in office. If I say hi, look, my name's Catherine. I tell Belt, I live in Temecula. I'm actually boarding a plane. I just think I bit down on something. I think I might have chipped part of my tooth. It's not hurting. but I would like to get it checked when I return on Monday. and I can come anytime next week.I don't have insurance. I'll be paying cash. I just like to get something if I could, early afternoon next week, I can come any. , you pr pretty much have skipped over the four step process because I've given you every, I've given you. , my urgency where I am on the scale of urgency. It's not very urgent.I've already answered questions about how, how I'll be pain, what I expect when I can come, so you can, it would be silly to try to go back to step one and try to walk down this floor. Mm-hmm. , it's like I've catapulted. So it's really, you have to use your head about the framework. The framework is more for someone calls you have limited or no information.I wanna know how much you charge for a crown. if you answer that, it's like you're throwing some, you know, it's like you close your eyes and shoot the arrow and hope that you come anywhere near the target. But when someone, someone gives you enough information up front that the target's now clear, just shoot the target.Right. Yeah. Just, just take 'em there. Now I'll give you one exception and that is the question about insurance. And it's similar to the question about price. I contend nobody is sitting around on their sofas at night scratching their heads, wondering what the price of crowns are these days. That's not why they're calling.Yeah, they're calling because, and asking this question because there's, it's sort of like the Wizard of Oz. There's something behind the. , right? There's, there's this little thing behind the curtain of this big scary question that's actually really important. And so rather than address the big scary question, I wanna kind of be good enough to peel back that curtain and say, well, what's what's behind there?Because the truth is, unless you are the cheapest in town, if you are the cheapest in town and somebody is, somebody is, if you are, that question's not. , right? Mm-hmm. , if you're the cheapest crown in town, cheapest Invisalign. Cheapest whitening. Cheapest implant. you can answer that question they're not gonna find it any less.But if you're not the cheapest in town, then we won't win on answering that question. We will have to win in some other way. We'll have to win on value. And to do that, we've gotta get behind why are they calling, why are they asking this question in the first place? And if we can get behind that, and that's why I say, Honor the question.Say that I'm, I'm so glad you called us. I'd love to talk to you about that. I wanna make sure I give you the right information. So would you mind if I ask you a couple of questions and then of course, I'm gonna start with why. Why is it that you think you need, first of all, is this for you? And if it is, or whoever it's for.why do you think you need a crown? are you experiencing some discomfort? If they say yes, I'm gonna explore that, cuz I'm still trying to figure out am I gonna schedule them for a, an immediate exam mm-hmm. , you know, a limited exam or am I gonna get them into a comprehensive situation? I'm trying to decide now on the price question we teach to.avoid that question upfront and do use these techniques of questioning and then offer them some appointments. And another tip I'll give right here, stop asking, do you perform mornings or afternoons or do you prefer a day of the week? Stop it. The reason is, if you ask Catherine, do you prefer mornings or afternoons?Catherine's gonna say mornings because I would rather come in eight o'clock, get my appointment done, have my day to go back to work, and, and be productive. But if you had a one o'clock in the afternoon open tomorrow that you wanted to fill, and you asked me, do you perform mornings or afternoons? I say eight o'clock, you now, it doesn't even make any sense to offer me the one.but that's what you really wanna fill. But if you said to Catherine, you know what I, Catherine, I have a, an appointment doc, uh, doctor has some, an opportunity to see you for that either tomorrow at one or, next Thursday at 10. Which of those would work best for your schedule? I might pick the one tomorrow if it was available.So you've scored big with me. Now what I know is that three outta four people will go where you lead them. if you lead them. In other words, if you give me a choice, three outta four people will pick one of those choices. You score big on three people. If you just don't ask 'em morning or afternoon, just take 'em.Give them your hardest to fill times and see what happens. One out of four, Michael, mm-hmm. will not go where you lead them. They are assertive enough personalities that unless you can give them an eight o'clock on a Monday, they're not coming there. And so if you offer me one in 10. . Then that assertive person's gonna say, well, actually, the only time I can come is eight o'clock on a Monday morning.Can you see me? Right? And so what have you lost with that person? You've lost nothing. You'll direct them to your next available early morning, which might be a while, but you've scored big on the other three that wouldn't have picked the one o'clock, but took it because you offer. , do you see?Mm-hmm. . So free yourself up. Stop that habit of, of doing that, and just offer them, direct them where you want to go, where, where you want them to go. so back to my question of the shopper and the insurance on the shopper, I am going to try to guide them and a lot of them will never ask that question a second time, and they will come in, but some will, some will say, well, I, I'm not ready to schedule cuz you never answer my question about how much it costs.So I contend administrators need to sit down with their manager or. and they need to ask, they need to say, I'm feeling very skilled to avert that question at least once, maybe twice. But if they push me a second or third time and say, I need the, I need to know how much it is, I need to know from you which way you want me to go, because whether I, whether they quote it or refuse to quote it, they're going to lose some people. if you quote it and you're not the cheapest, you're gonna lose some. If you refuse to quote it, you're gonna lose some. So I think it's a great trade to an owner or manager for an administrator to say, I'm not gonna answer it on the first go round. I'm gonna use this technique. I'm gonna try to get them in here where we can see them eyeball to eyeball and we can quote the fees.Then I'm gonna do my very best. And if for those. Circle back around and force me, how do you want me to respond? And really, it's a, it's just a choice. my preference is to, uh, quote range if you're pushed into the corner to quote as wide a range as is reasonable or truthful. But not to do it right away, not to do it on the first go round, you know, to have some skills to try to avoid that question.We're not trying to avoid the question. We're trying to get them there to see and only quote what is real. We're also trying to get them in so that they have an experience of what our fees afford them. We can't give them that experience of what our fees afford them over the. completely. So if we can get them in, we have a chance of them falling in love with us, falling in love with our office, our doctor, our hygienist, our team, our technology, all of that.But we, it's harder on the phone. So, so those are some tips for that, for insurance. you know, it's easy if you're on the plan, but if you're not, my suggestion very quickly would be don't tell them what you're not. , tell them what you are. So instead of saying, I'm sorry, we're not a provider on the plan, you're gonna lose a hundred percent of those people, wouldn't you?Mm-hmm. , you're gonna lose a hundred percent. But if you say, I'm so glad you called. And we work with a lot of patients who have, blue Cross Insurance, we are considered what is known as an unrestricted or, you could say, I've heard people say, uh, non-preferred. I don't, I don't like that term. I think non-preferred sounds like the insurance company doesn't prefer you.Mm-hmm. . But my favorite term of all is either unrestricted or non-contracted. So if someone says, you know, I was wondering if you accepted my Blue Cross Insurance, then I would say, well, I'm so glad you called. we help a lot of patients with that insurance.We're considered what's called a non-contracted provider. Here's how your insurance would work in our practice. And we help them understand. So what we're doing is we're saying, here's what we are instead of what we're. Here's what we can do instead of what? What can't be done, here's how you can use it instead of how you can't use it,So it's the other side of the coin. I'm never asking people to say something untrue or something that is a lie. It's a bait and switch, and I don't believe in it. I don't believe in saying, yeah, you can use your insurance. Come on in. And then revealing once they're there that we actually aren't a provider on their plan.I think we need to be truthful, but again, . I often will say, you know, I'm curious why you're looking for a provider on the plan. Is there some particular reason that you're wanting to be seen by a dentist? And if I can find that reason, I can sell my practice back to that reason. And often I can get them in even when we're not providers often, but if we do not reach to that phone line and convince them that they shouldn't make a decision till they meet our doctor.They're, they're gonna go someplace else. Cuz in their mind, all dental practices are kind of the same. They all went to dental school, they all do a crown. They, you know, it's all the same. So unless we can kind of enlighten them that it isn't the same, then we're playing the wrong game. We're playing the wrong game.Michael: Yeah. really like that. Uh, especially, and I, I kind of see now that you're talking to me, This involves a lot of consistency, like training, right? Like, it's not just like a here's a thing and then get it, get it together. Because I remember when I think we had like somebody talk to us about print office training on how to handle new patients phone calls.And I did the same thing, but then when, when that happened, when someone's like, oh, I just need like the plane and, um, and metaphor, right? I, I forgot everything and I, I just went back to my old habits and then I just went like, okay, well, uh, let me just check real quick and then, and I was like, why I, I, I failed.I gave up. You know? So I feel like that that's a thing that can happen quite often. Katherine: yeah. We wanna support people with a system that they feel like they can be who they are, but they have some guidance. I know how to handle this question. I mean, there's only a handful of common questions if we're going to get four or five.In some practices, it's many more than that a day. , are you on my plan questions or how much, you know, if you're, you're, you're really, promoting different ways of marketing practices. So I mean, I feel like we're always marketing. We're, there's never a time, we're not marketing, right. We're, we're always putting forth an image of who we are.And so you can't not market, but you cannot. Market on purpose. You can market accidentally, and sometimes not the way you meant to. And so you know it, so maybe all you have is a website and you're, maybe you're not, you don't have a social media campaign. You're not doing direct mail, you're not, you don't have a billboard, you whatever.but regardless, they're gonna find you some way, they're gonna find you through referrals, the, the relationships you've nurtured. That's a marketing activity. So however they come to you, we have to have people on the phone that are skilled at the common questions those people would ask. And I find the more we do external marketing, the more we are doing direct mail, the sort of a cold call, the more we are doing social media outreaches and things like that, the more we're doing those kinds of things, the more we generate shopper questions and.a lot of administrators because they struggle with the question, they're not very successful with them. And anything you're not very successful with, you're going to avoid and not like, we wanna get 'em way more successful.So they actually go, oh, goodie a shopper question. A price question. Because a price question says I'm interested, it's actually a really great question. It's basically a screaming neon sign saying, I'm in the market. I'm, I'm interested, but I have a, uh, this little roadblock of price. And often they don't know what else to ask.often, those price shoppers wouldn't choose the cheapest if they knew it meant. Quality. Nobody stands behind the work. The place is dirty, the service is terrible. the experience is terrible. It's unskilled people, all of that. If they knew it, they'd say, well, I'd rather pay a little more and get a different experience. But it's up to us to make sure that they understand the experience with us. So I think that's the key, is getting your people trained, not just handing them a phone and a pat on the back and saying, good luck. Yeah. And that's how a lot of administrators are trained.No, I Michael: agree a hundred percent. Wow. Catherine, thank you so much for being with us. We had, I wanted to ask you more stuff, more questions, but this was so jam packed. We definitely gotta invite you back on again, but, oh, I'd Katherine: love to be back on so much to talk about. I mean, communication runs the world, right?It, it just, everything happens through communication. So there's lots to talk about. Michael: that's true. Yeah. Communication. I really appreciate it though the, a lot of these principles that you, you mentioned here, especially when it comes to new patients and And diving into that, where can our listeners find you if they need to reach out to you?Katherine: Well, they can reach out, through our website, obviously, which is lion speak, l i o n s p e a k.net. the.com is owned by Lions Peak Winery, so if you want wine, we say go there, . But if you want communications training, come to lion speak.net. And, if you go to, patient service skills, the tab there.There'll be a dropdown menu and it'll show you, a lot of the programs we have, uh, an audio download. It's kind of a do-it-yourself, telephone training program, so you can buy that audio download. It comes with a workbook, and your people can listen to it and learn how to do all of this much better.So it's a very affordable, very easy sort of do it yourself. if you, Some ongoing help. We have an annual program that includes that training, but it also includes virtual time with a live trainer, and the Mystery Shepherd calls throughout the year and, you know, more handholding and more, hands on, training for your team.So, lots of different options. we do some onsite visits, uh, if we wanna combine some topics for teams. And, so you can learn a lot, a lot about us there. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely check that out. And Catherine, thank you so much for being with us. It was a pleasure, and we'll hear from you soon.Thank you.‍‍

In this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode, I'm joined with dental marketing expert Christa Nes-Iadicola, who shares four key tips for a great patient experience: consistency, simplicity, cohesiveness, and connection. Consistency means patients know what to expect when they visit and you deliver! Simplicity ensures that the whole process is low friction, with easy scheduling and no need to re-ask questions. Cohesiveness makes sure your team is on the same page, answering commonly asked questions in a uniform fashion. Lastly, connection is the unique experience aspect, calling your patients by name and taking detailed chart notes. She also emphasizes approaching patients with servitude, not entitlement, and sending personal letters to patients who leave. Drop in on my conversation with Christa for valuable insights on improving your patients' experience!‍You can reach out to Christa Nes-Iadicola here:Email: info@christanesllc.comWebsiteFacebook‍Other Mentions and Links:Denta DentalHIPAA - The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Krista, so talk to us about patient retention. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us? That will help us with this. Christa: Yes, Michael? So I think when you talk about patient retention, it really comes down to, one thing, and that's a great patient experience.And to have a great patient experience, I think you really need to dial in for. Key points. and the first one is consistency. You have to have your systems and protocol in place. Um, the patient needs to know what to expect for that appointment, and then you need to deliver that. So once that is done, that's the first step in trust.After you repeat that process in every area of your practice, the patients begin to trust you. So, um, when you think about systems and protocol that you need to have in place to have good patient retention, There really are a lot that go into it, but if you look at just a few, look at your policies, look at your cancellation policy.Look at your confirmation policy. Do your patients know what they are or are they calling to cancel their appointment? And the staff is. Annoyed that they're canceling their appointment within two short timeframe, but they never were aware of your policy. That creates friction between the staff and the patient, obviously.So the patients need to know exactly what to expect on every level. So this is prepping them for their appointments. If it's a first appointment, even if it's a return appointment, they want to know what to expect. And once you're hitting those x. Expectations, um, then the patient starts to trust you. I think you also have to think about your policies when it comes to follow up.So when you're following up with patients that cancel, are we just letting them fall through the cracks and then picking it up at another time when they're not necessarily thinking about that appointment anymore? Or is there a good protocol in place that we've became consistent on within the staff?obviously when you're looking at patient retention, your attrition rate will start to go up as soon as those patients hit a certain month mark, and they're not reappointing. So look up at how you're reappointing. Are you reappointing? And what is your follow-up system look like? Most offices these days use um, automation, which is great, but when are you going to get a personal touch and.in that process with the patient. So is what I find with the offices that I work with is that a lot of staff will have limiting beliefs, in this area specifically. They'll say, well, I'm looking at their history and it shows that we've texted them this many times. I'm not going to reach out and annoy them.But the simplest form of communication and even texting, still using the automation, but just saying, hi, this is Krista from this dentist office, is a way that your patients do start to respond. Um, and at times you may have to, yes, pick up the phone and contact them directly, but patients are just like us busy, so they're appreciative of that.So I think. , there's a a big hold up with the staff that I see that are in charge of doing this process. It's just not being done because they simply don't think it needs to be, or they feel like they're annoying patients when they do that. So the second one, that I think is a key factor, especially in today's world.Like I said, patients are busy is simplicity. So is it easy to schedule in your practice? do you send online forms? But in that initial phone call you're asking further address, . No. So I see a lot of redundancies like that. Or are you having them fill out your med history form, which obviously is necessary and they're entering all their insurance information.But then when they come in, that's the first question that you're asking them. Do you have a copy of your insurance card? Makes the patient feel like, well, why did I spend all that time doing it for you? So we really need to get the simplicity in the office and look at, again, look at all of your. , are they simple for the patient or are they about us?So are they about making our jobs easier or are they simple for the patient? And I believe that, um, when you really take a step back and look at the patient experience and look at the staff process, that it all can be intertwined and be easy for the patient and still work for the staff. but it does take some work to get it there.So, um, a huge one that I see, and I was actually in an office just this morning and this happened was, insurance, right? Insurance is confusing for patients. A lot of times patients will have a medical insurance card and it won't have the dental on it, and they'll say, well, I didn't get it until card, which is true.And you know, people that work in a dentist's office, staff members do know that to be true and. , I can think of the top three in my area that are notorious dental insurances for not giving a dental card. Right? And I, I would say Delta is one of those among any area, and we all know and have the capability to log into that Delta website, type in a social and a birthdate when that patient is standing in front of you.and pull their benefits up within, I won't even say minutes, within a minute. So that's something that's totally at our reach that I see offices passing back to the patient, well, you need to talk to your hr. You need to find out who's your dental insurance, or We can't file, or we can't see you, or whatever.The thing that they're saying is, when really if you would just type that number into Delta or do a employer search on your, practice management software, they all have it, right? The the answer is right there in front of us. So if we put in a little bit of effort for that patient is what happens is it kind of clears out all of the backend side of things.You're not having to follow up with that patient, make sure they did call back, then verify the benefits, and then send the claim. making that effort for the patient coming up with an. and then your backend process is cleared. So in this case, the patient, he did find out who his insurance was through and he was just saying, oh, I just have a member id.I don't have a card. Is that okay? I said, yes, we can help. I messaged him back. I just said, I'll just text you back and make sure everything's good. And he said, wow. Thank you so much. Your staff is awesome. I am so happy because this was such a stressful morning when I didn't have the insurance and I was trying to find the information.So, as we know, dental insurance doesn't make things easy for us either. They don't make it for the patients easy as well. So I think that's an. Major area where the staff members are always more well-versed than the patients that you really can help them. And that kind of thing goes a long way. Um, so if we approach talking to our patients with an attitude of servitude rather than entitlement, you should have brought me that card.That was your responsibility. You knew you were coming for an appointment, whatever their reasoning may be. If we approach it with an attitude of how can I help? , then that patient obviously is going to have a better experience. So the next one that I see is cohesiveness. And this kind of plays into the other ones as well, um, into consistency.But the patients will ask the same question multiple times. We all know that. So they're going to ask the same question when they call and talk to the front desk as they may ask the clinician when they sit down for their appointment. So is that answer always the. or are we contradicting each other within that answer?So if one staff member answers this question and. another answers it differently. Um, it can often turn into a he said, she said situation, right? And then depending on your office culture, depends on how that's gonna play out. Are you gonna start having staff members throw each other under the bus or, um, what's that gonna look like?Are you gonna just always speak? Calling saying, oh, well, we have to get our office manager involved and they can figure it out. Um, so what does that look like? Is there a cohesive feel in the office? and is there a positive. Office culture on how the staff are interacting with each other as well as the patients, how the doctors are interacting with the staff and the patients.Is there a cohesive kind of culture that the patients then know to come and expect and can be true at your office? . so if you really have all of these three things dialed in, your patients will start to trust you because they'll have no reason not to. Right? Um, so then I think there's one last piece that if you add in, it just takes your office to the next level.And that is the piece of connection and care. So you have trust without this, but then when you add it in, you really start to get those loyal patients that you then have no problems, retain. . when you think about that, there's really a lot that you can do with it and you can really cater it to your office and the core cultures that your office has to offer.Um, but the first thing is make it each visit personalized. And it, it sounds silly to say out loud, but I'll tell you the number of offices that I walk into and hear the front desk speak to the patients and. Hi, what's your name? Is Unreal. So there's no better way to make a patient feel like a number than saying, hi, what's your name?So when you, again, look at your practice management software, they all have a place for a patient photo. So your check-in person, your greeting person, . patients typically come in on the hour, half an hour, somewhat staggered, but there's no reason that even if you have 15 patients coming in on the hour, they can't look at those patients and use some sort of deductive reasoning to see their name.Or I don't even care if the patient sits down in the waiting room after they've greeted them, and then they figure out whose name it is and check them in. Right. So there's really. To me, no excuse for that. And there's a number of strategies that you can use on that as well. But that is the first.Point. typically in the patient experience when they're coming into the office that you really wanna set the stage because you have been expecting them, right? If they canceled their appointment, you would've been mad at them, so now they're here, so be happy with them, right? So if we look at it like that, um, I think it starts to change, but, uh, it's also knowing how to speak to your patients, right?So anytime you're asking your patients, Do something. Obviously you're going to have those certain protocols that you have in place and anytime you're asking the patient to do something, they may not want to say. You only schedule your um, major procedures in the morning. . So add in the value of why that's important, not for you, for the patient, and then talk to them in that way.So say, Michael, uh, I know that you prefer later in the afternoon, but for this procedure, the doctor does it first thing in the morning. We don't double book at this time so you can have his full attention and we can get you in out here as soon as possible. Well, now you understand why that's necessary before you just understand that that doesn't work for your.right? So it's knowing how to add the value to the patient with what your. asking them to do. and then there's a lot that you can do to make the experience personal. Obviously adding in your chart notes, something that you spoke about the last time, and then following up on it the next time, that makes the patient feel that you do remember them.Um, and usually if you have the chart notes down, you can kind of trigger the memory on that. Um, one that I see a lot too is, uh, and I think this is very important for the. Is to prep the doctors that day with larger practices. Like, Hey, you, you have done an exam on this patient before You just met them one time.They're a little overdue, so it was eight months ago, so I'm not sure if you're going to remember them, but don't go in and reintroduce yourself. Right? Nothing worse than that. So, , make them aware, of the patients that they're not meeting . And the best way to do that again, is to have those structures and protocol in place, but then have that connection point and reference it from last time.So then once you kind of, and, and all of these things are harder to do of course, if you don't have your systems and protocol in place. But once you do, then you can really start to. Personalize it. You can do a lot of it with automation as well. Um, you're gonna put a personal touch on it, but even in your software, if you are talking to patients and they're expecting a baby, or they're getting married or graduating or retirement, there's a lot that you can do with that in the form of cards, emails following up the next time, and really just kind of connecting with that patient on the level of, Hey, well, Only, you know, we're really relationship in this way, but we really do care for you.Um, so I think that is major. And again, even if you approach contacting patients when they're overdue or due for treatment in a way of care, , and this is a team effort, and you relate it back to their chart notes. While I see the last time that you came in, doctor was concerned about this area, so he asked me to give you a call to follow up on that because we, we wanted to make sure we got that taken care of for you.So I think it's really about being intentional in the way you do things and realizing that. Um, it's a team effort. It's all going together. You need to be keeping good notes. You need to be referencing each other's notes, and you need to be follow up in that way, even stating, Hey, no, you canceled your appointment cuz you were sick or you feeling better?How's it going? Can we get you scheduled back in? referencing all those notes is it's just going to make the patient feel like they're not a number. they really. Care. So I think that is really key as well, on, um, retaining the patients. And then of course, if you do have a patient that decides to leave, make sure that you, you make them aware that you will miss them, right?Mm-hmm. so. And then a letter that you're saying, Hey, thank you for time with us. If anything in your future were to change, we would always love to have you back and extend that invitation and open the door. So if they were not happy with their new office, they can come back to your office, um, but without feeling embarrassed or, or like they shouldn't have left in the first place.Michael: Yeah. No, that's wonderful. if you could real quick, let us know, would this be really helpful in the morning huddles or like in a team meeting to make sure, like, let's make sure we're all cohesive here with, with our patients. Christa: Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, go over certain points in the morning huddles.There's a lot that you can do. And again, it's a team effort and it's just about being intentional. you may have a patient coming in and their spouse hasn't been in, in quite some time. Well, it's okay, you know, make sure you're not breaking any HIPAA laws obviously, but ask about that. and say their spouse is gonna go home and say, Hey, I was just at the dentist's office and they were asking about you because you, you haven't made an appointment in a while.So there's a lot that you can do internally too to kind of get those patients back on the books. But the morning huddle is the perfect place to kind of, um, prep for this, or even if, if a patient had a rough appointment the last time to really make sure that you make this experience. better, So be aware of those things and then if you do have a patient that has a long wait time or something, um, figure out a way that you can kind of remedy it so they can get back to that consistent experience and realize that that one time was the outlier.Michael: Awesome. Krista, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her in the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group or where can they reach out to you Christa: directly? Yeah, they can email me at info krista ness llc dot. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely reach out to her.Krista, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Christa: Thanks, Michael.

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: Sana YusufPractice Name: Sana Dental Studio & SpaCheck out Sana's Media:‍Instagram: @sanayusufdmd‍‍Other Mentions and Links:Unreasonable HospitalityExcite Realty GroupTricare InsuranceVolkswagenHumanaMichael Dinsio - Next Level ConsultantsHeartland DentalMorpheus MachineTransdental MarketingMVP MailhouseArt of Dental MarketingRenew Digital‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Balancing work and home life can be tough. Making time for YOU is just as important as both!If you are saying yes to everything, you are also saying no to many other opportunities. Keep this in mind when agreeing to obligations!Cosmetic and spa offerings can be a big draw for your practice. Try keeping up with what patients want in addition to a dental experience.In the US Army, Sana learned to take a conservative approach to procedures. Sometimes if a procedure isn't needed immediately, patients appreciate you working with their schedule and feelings.Do not count on team members to stick with you forever! It is important to respect their choices and have a backup plan if another opportunity arises for them.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Sauna. How's it going? Good, how are you? I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located? Sana: So we are in like north suburbs of Tampa. So Wesley Chapels, specifically Wesley Chapel, Florida.Oh, Michael: nice. Okay. So the weather right now over there is pretty Sana: Yeah, I was gonna say, let's see, let's check 81 degrees. It's great. . Michael: Oh man, that's winter right there for you guys. So in summer, how does summer look? Sana: It's like very hot, but I'm also not like a native Floridian, so for me, I'm like, oh, this feels great.Like, I don't know, I was made for the desert, so I Michael: like it. It's made for the desert. No, that's good. That's good. I, I hear Tampa Bay, it's really beautiful. So It is, yeah. Sana: I, my husband and I talk about it all the time, like it feels like we're on vacation. Mm-hmm. every day, and I'm like, wait, we live here.This is kinda cool. . So like, if we go to the beach, it's not like we have to like, pack up and like go to our hotel. We're like, okay, now we just have to drive to our house. So this is cool. Yeah. So it's nice. It, it definitely is a nice, nice place to Michael: be. Nice. Awesome. Okay, so son, tell us a little bit about your past, your present.How did you get to where you are today? Sana: Okay. I was like, how, how far back are we going? I was July 10th, 1991. I was born, no, I'm just kidding. , you were born Michael: July 10th, 1991. Sana: I was, yeah. I'm a. I'm Michael: 30. I'm 31. Sana: I'm 31. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Millennial as it gets, that's Michael: millennial as it gets. Okay, cool. So then talk to us about, I dunno, you can go as far back as you want, but like, okay.I Sana: won't go that far back. It's kind of boring. Like, you know, tons of like generational traumas and like all that, like stuff that you're trying to like break through and like, whatever. So we won't go through all that stuff that's like for therapy, but like professional. Right. Okay. So I, um, graduated high school oh nine and I went straight into like, um, Seven year dental program at Detroit Mercy. So, , I did three years undergrad and then you go like automatically into dental school as long as you like D a T scores, science, gpa, all that stuff. Mm-hmm. . So, I kind of decided, I was like, Hey, like I don't wanna live in Detroit for seven years of my life.I was born in Detroit, so that's cool. But I grew up in like suburbs of Chicago, so like I don't wanna live in Detroit. So I kind of decided, hey, I'm gonna get my bachelor's in three years so that way I can apply to any dental school I want and then I can move back home to Chicago. So that was like always the goal.Mm-hmm. . So I took, I remember one summer I took 21 credit hours of summer school at three different community colleges, Michael: and I was pregnant. Sana: And you were pregnant? And I was pregnant, yes. Surprise, surprise team mom. Anyways, everybody knows that, but it's fine. Who? Whoever didn't know it now knows it.Yeah. So I had a son when I was 19, but um, yeah, so like the summer that I was pregnant with him, I took 21 summer, like 21 credit hours of summer school. Mm-hmm. at three different community colleges. Cause I was like, no, I have to like, I have to graduate in three years. Like that's just my goal now. So I took all the like sociology and psycho, all the like required for your degree, but like not science courses all in summer.So graduated when I was 20 from college. That was cool. That was 2012 and then started dental school immediately. And so I did get into school back in Chicago. I went to Midwestern University in Downers Grove. So I did four years there. I decided to join the Army after I got outta our dental school. So I did the H P S P scholarship.Um, I commissioned when I was still an undergrad, so was in the army, got out. got outta dental school, became active duty in the Army. So that was four years. 2016 is when I graduated dental school. So 2016 to 2020 I was in, in the Army. I was stationed at Fort Hill, Oklahoma. So that's my, my lawyer.Okay. Yeah, . So I was stationed at Fort Sill, so I did four years active duty, which was fun, difficult, definitely, you know, you're kind of like trying to be a soldier, but also trying to be a dentist, trying to figure out how to be a soldier. Also, still trying to figure out how to be a dentist. So it was a lot of like figuring out for four years.and then I decided after I did my four year commitment that we were, yeah. That I was gonna get out. and I wanted to kind of explore private practice and like just being like a civilian dentist. So immediately that happened right when Covid started. So it's like a whole thing where like, . I felt like the world was ending.I mean, I'm sure everybody did when Covid ended, right? But I was getting out of the army where like everything is guaranteed benefits, guaranteed pay. Like, oh, I'm sitting at home because everything is shut down and I'm getting paid and I have like my Tricare medical benefits for my entire family and everything is great and dandy.And I was like giving up all of that security to like jump into like the real world where I'm like, I have to pay $1,500 a month to have health insurance for my children. what? Do you guys need it? Are you okay? Like, can you not fall down? Don't get sick. How about that? Like just, just drink your orange juice, like Rick Juice, like let's save $1,500.Like what is And. . I remember like, so when I was getting out of the army, my husband and I were both from Chicago, so we're like, okay, like let's, we were trying to like decide like, what do we wanna do? Like, do we move back to Chicago? Do we like pick somewhere new? Do we move to Texas? Like, what are we doing?And like, just, we were like, okay, we're gonna move to Florida. So literally we're like, Hey, now where do we move in Florida? Do we go to Miami? We're like, no, that's like two party. Party. And like, we're trying to like have a family and like kids , I don't wanna be in South Beach. Like if I'm down there, I'm gonna wanna be at South Beach and like ha like at a party.And I also my mom, and so I have kids so I can, that I, okay, we can't go to Miami. Miami is off the table. So, okay. How about Orlando? And I'm like, no. Like I hate traffic. And also like, it's very touristy. So like, okay, we're not moving to Orlando. And so we're like, all right, let's move Tampa. Like, Tampa's like up and coming.Like I was like, it's like the Austin of Florida. Like that's like the way I had like term, I was like, it's the Austin of Florida. Yeah. Cause my like, best friend lives lives in Austin and so we like moved here and this is like before Tom Brady was here. Michael: Cause I thought you were following Tom Brady, but nevermind. Sana: Yeah. I was like, before selling Tampa, like we were here just like, so I didn't move here cause everybody's moving here. We literally picked it and we're like, we're gonna go there. So, yeah. So we moved here like June of 2020. So it's like, what the height of Covid, like the middle of Covid.Mm-hmm. . And as I'm like moving, so my husband got, my husband's a high school teacher, so he like got a job. He was like ready to go. And then I had a job, like as an associate everything's shut down. And so like we're moving here in June and in April they're like, Hey, like by the way, we have to pull your contract.Like, sorry, you can't work here. And we're like, what? I'm like, wait, hold on. Excuse me. like I just can't work here for like the month of April and May because I wasn't gonna be there anyways. Like it's fine. Yeah. And they're like, no, never like until we figure out what's happening with Covid. I was like, people still need dentists during Covid.It's fine. I'll wear a mask. I need a job. You need a dentist? I'm coming. that didn't happen. That didn't happen. So they pulled my contract and I was like, in my head I was like, do I just like stay in the army? I was like, oh, so I should just stay in the army. Like that's like my logical thing.I was like, pull my packet. Like I'm sit, captain Yiv is staying, guys, don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still here. Don't worry. Like not leaving. But my husband's like, no, I have a job in Florida. Like, we're moving. Like, it's fine. We'll figure it out. My husband's like very, like, we'll figure it out. And I'm like, no.Like we must plan. Like I must have a plan for my plan for the backup plan. Like that's how I am. So we're like very opposite and he just is very like, go with it. So like in my head, like, we're moving here. I was like, we should like rent a place, get the lay of the land, like figure it out. Like, and my husband's like, no, I don't wanna move twice.Like, we're just gonna, we should just buy a house when we get, we should just buy a house. And I'm like, dude, like it's covid. Like we have, we haven't, we can't fly there to look at house. We don't need to look at it. They can FaceTime us. is that? What happened? Michael: Yes. , Sana: My husband was like, no, it's fine.They can just FaceTime us. That's fine. So the realtor literally like FaceTimed us. We like saw this house. She sent us some videos and we're like, all right, like let, yeah, let's, okay, let's buy it. Sure. Cool. So like we bought this house site, zine, site unseen. Michael: Is it better than what you expected or worse?Sana: Yeah, I'm like so grateful. I'm like I said, a prayer. My husband actually, like, I was still like filing out, so I couldn't leave Oklahoma as soon as he could. Cause I still have to do like all my paperwork and whatever with the army. And we like got a call like, Hey, your furniture's gonna get delivered on Monday.And we're like, wait, what? Like you guys said it was gonna take two weeks. So like we're all planning like two weeks. Like it'll be perfect timing. So, Once it goes into storage, like, I don't know, I'm sure like everybody who's listening who has done like a military move understands like, do not put your stuff in the storage if it is gonna get delivered straight to your house.Like you accept it, you accept the shipment to your house and you drive 19 hours without stopping to Florida to get your household goods. Otherwise you'll see it in 90 days. Yeah, because once it's a storage, it's gone. So literally my husband and my son got in a car and drove from Oklahoma to Florida.Saturday they left and then Monday our stuff got delivered and they were there to accept the shipment. So anyways, and my husband like calls me, he's like, wow, babe. The front hall's actually a lot bigger than it looked like in the video. And I'm like, I'm so glad that's unthankful . Michael: Really? This is the one thing I wantedSana: It's like I'm so glad that it's like a welcoming the entryway. This is so good. Yeah, so it's so funny. But yeah, so we moved here 2020. Thankfully I like found an associate position. literally in May, we got here in June and like in May, I was just like submitting my Indeed application to like everybody and their mom.And I was like, oh, like you would like somebody at this nursing home to check people's dentures. Of course, yes. Please take my application. Yes, I will come do that. That's what you need. I will do that. . It was, I literally, I think I submitted my, I think people are still responding to my Indeed applications like three years later.we found a great position for you. I was like, not interested, not looking. Thank you. Stop. Stop. S t stop. Unsubscribe, . So yeah, I literally applied to everything that I could think of. So got a job that was cool. Started my first associate position like two weeks after I moved down here. And so at that point it was,It's like culture shock. Like all of a sudden I'm like a dentist in private practice and it's very different than being a dentist in the military. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, like people have to pay for the things that I'm telling them. Like it's just not all free and included. Yeah. And then they don't trust me.Like they think I'm just trying to make money off of them. And I'm like, no, like I'm telling you this because like, you need this, right? Like you need these fillings or you need this crown. And they're like, like, you just want me to pay for your Mercedes. I was like, dude, I drive a Volkswagen, but thank you.Michael: But I would like a Mercedes. So Sana: yes, those are expensive. Tell me about it. How do I ? So if you do this, actually you know what? You should let your tooth fall out. So then you need a, an extraction and then auto the input. And that'll help me pay. Michael: That'll help pay. Yeah. that was like a culture shock then, Sana: It was very like sticker shock and like, honestly, okay, coming from the military, like that was my first experience as a dentist was like dental school where everything's like $5 and nobody cares how you do it because you're a student and you're just trying to learn. And then it's the military where it's like everything's free because they're all soldiers and we're like serving the soldier.We're like getting the soldiers ready for going down range and like being deployable and whatever. and this is gonna sound really bad, but I'm gonna tell you guys the truth. I'm gonna say the truth. in the Army, I got paid exactly the same if I did a filling or I did a crown, or if I watched Game of Thrones in my office.Like, if I told you you needed a filling, it's because you really needed it. I would've preferred to be watching something in my office, I'm getting paid to like sit here and like type some things and like eat my food and like watch Netflix on my phone. I got paid the exact same.So like, yeah, for me, like that's kind of where I got my like treatment planning philosophies was like, oh, you absolutely need, like, you need this and so we're gonna do it. And I think that's, I mean, of course all dentists do that, right? Like, you need this, we're gonna do it. Some people are a little bit more aggressive on the treatment planning side.Some people are a little bit more conservative. I'm very conservative. Like, I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. Like let's watch if we can. And if I'm like, no, like we can't watch 86 things like you, you need fillings. Sorry. Mm-hmm. . But I think that was kind of. . The switch for me was like, I'm telling people they need these things because they really need them.I wanna be watching tv. You need these fillings. I'm doing these fillings for you. So now I'm in the real world and people are like, well, you just want me to pay for your car. But I'm like, no, but you really just need these fillings. you're not paying for my car. I don't understand what's happening right now.And so it was, it was like a very like, weird, like and it was like, also like covid. And everybody's like, well, can you put your mask? I was like, I have two masks on. Thank you. what do you want from me? I don't understand what I'm a yellow banana suit. I have three masks on. I don't, I don't get it.Like, and you don't want this filling, and I don't want to do this filling. So I'm gonna get covid because I'm doing this filling on you. yeah, yeah. I have the short end of the stick here, guys. I don't want $26 and 15 cents from Humana for this filling, but you need it. So here we are. And like, yeah.So that was like deep dive, like into like private practice. , and I mean, I technically worked for like a corporate office mm-hmm. , and it was a, it was a different type of like, corporate, it wasn't like corporate, corporate, it was just like, like more private practice feel, but still corporate. I don't know if that makes sense.But Yeah. I mean, and there were some like really great things about it and some knots. So really great things about it. I did find myself, and maybe it's like my, innate leadership ability, I guess, if you wanna call it, or like my four years in the Army where I was like forced to be a leader.So now I'm always just like thinking of like, how can we do things better? How can we do this more productive, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. So I'm over here like, just turning this dude's practice around basically like a mini like owner. Like, okay, like guys, like, we need to like really hone in on our ordering.Like, why are we ordering 86 different types of composite? We don't need that. Like, we use two things. So let's like stick to those two things. Mm-hmm. , like whatever, like, just like really streamlining things and like, Switched the whole practice around. Everybody's like, wow, we like patients, staff.Everybody's like, we just love coming here. It's so great. And I'm like, oh, you're welcome guys. I'm And yeah, so then at that moment I was like, wait, I'm like doing this for somebody else. So like why don't I do this for me? And that's kind of like where like the whole like switch happened a little bit where I was like, well, I should, I could, I could do this for myself.Okay. So I'm also like very like squirrel brained. So like all of this is gonna connect, I promise this will all connect. It's connect. Yeah. It's connected. Yeah. So I'm gonna pause that story for a second. I'm gonna tell another story and then I'm gonna connect the two stories. Okay. Okay. So whoever, maybe if somebody like from the Texas State Board can like message me on Instagram and tell me how this happened, feel free.But when I was in the military, so I was in Oklahoma, which was right above Texas, and so I had my Texas license and my Oklahoma license. . I got my Texas license in 2017, just like for reference of timeframe. I got my Texas license and then all of a sudden I get a call from somebody and they were like, Hey, where from blah, blah, blah.Like real estate company. Like are you interested in like opening up your own practice? And like, and so, you know, we'd love to help you like find some space, whatever. Actually I think I can just say it like, it's fine. Cuz they helped me. This is why I ended it was Excite Realty. a, a healthcare realty firm or whatever.So they have an office in Texas. They have an office in Florida. So, calls me, this guy calls me, what was his name? Tristan, Tristan called me and I was like, no, Tristan, I'm in the Army. Like I am not looking to open my prac.Like, I'm literally like active duty military. Like I'm not opening a practice. Like, thank you. And I'm like also not very like. , please don't call me. Stop calling me. I was like, yeah, like, not right now. Tristan, thanks for calling. Like have a great day, whatever. Okay. He's like, all right, sounds good. I guess he like kept me on his list.Mm-hmm. , because he literally called me every October until 2021. Oh man. Yeah, he was like very persistent. Tristan was very persistent and so it's like 2017 all the way, 2021. So like at this point, so he calls me in 2021 and this time I was like, yo, I'm not even in Oklahoma anymore, bro. I don't even have my Texas license anymore.Like, so I like, at this point I was like a little bit more assertive also, I had an eight month old baby, so I was like probably sleep deprived. just all the things like, yeah, you know what? So I just was like, Kristen, stop calling me. So this was the first time in like, what, five years that I said it to him, Hey Tristan, listen, I'm not in Oklahoma.I'm not in Texas. I'm not gonna open a practice in Texas. Like I just, what? Can you take me off the call list? Like, thank you so much. He's like, oh doctor, real quick. Where are you? I was like, I live in Florida now. I live in Florida. And he was like, oh, we have a branch in Florida, bro. What? ? Michael: Yeah. I Sana: was like, Christine.I was like, and so, okay, fine. You know what? I was like, literally, and I remember this, I literally remember this because I was so, I was like nursing my daughter, she was eight months old. I'm sitting in the car at the outlet mall, like, so I don't remember my mother-in-law, somebody was in the mall and I was like, I'm just gonna sit in the car nurse her, like, just leave me alone.So, and I answered the phone to tell him, please stop calling me. And then he's like telling me like, well we have a, we have a location in Florida. And I'm like, Tristan, . Okay, what do I have to pay you? Like, let's just start there. Like what does this cost me? Like you keep telling me like, what does this cost me?And so this is like at that junction where I'm like doing all this for this other guy, like building up his practice and I'm like, I should do this for myself. Then Tristan calls me and I'm like, well, okay, maybe I should like entertain it. Like, okay, Tristan, how much does it cost? And he is like, oh, you don't pay anything.The landlord pays for it. I was like, this is Bri. Why did you start with that in 2017? Dude? open with that. Open with this doesn't cost you anything. Like maybe I would've been nicer for the last five years. Who would've thought? Yeah, so, okay, all right. I was like, all right, okay, let's give this the shot.And this was like kind of when my startup journey like began, oh no, sorry, this is October of 2020. So this is, yeah, 20, 23 years. Three years there. Mm-hmm. 20 17, 20 20, yeah. October of 2020. So I was like, okay, fine. Entertain me. That's fine. Let's see. So I gave him like what my like. to do my list was like what?Like what I want. Perfect practice, whatever. And like the place that I live is very like up and coming, so it's not like established. And there's a lot of like families coming in here. So like everybody from like California and New York. everybody that's like coming down here from there is like now moving to Wesley Chapel. So it's very like up and coming. So this is also where I live. And so I was like, Hey guys, like I want a practice like where I live.Okay. Like in retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have done that, but that's a whole other story. But I was like, I want something like close to home, like two minutes from my house, I can go home for lunch. Like this is great. Like that's what I want. So it's very specific. Is Michael: it right now two minutes from your house?Sana: five minutes from my house. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. Like we can't be that. so I gave him like this like list where I was like, this is like finding a unicorn, they won't be able to do this.Mm-hmm. . And I took, I was like, look, I really like my position. I'm making good money. I'm happy in what I'm doing. The thought has crossed my mind if the stars in the moon align, like, yeah, maybe I'll do it. So off you go, do your homework. Bye. So obviously like this area's up and coming, there's no practice acquisitions because everybody is a millennial dentist, so they're not retiring.Mm-hmm. , or they're like too young to be retiring. So there's no nothing to acquire around here. So it's all like, it has to be a startup. So we're looking, looking, looking. We found a few places like, you know, and so like the type of person I am, I'm always like prepared for like the other shoe to drop, right?So I told Tristan, all right, yeah, dude, put me in touch with your Florida guy. Let's do it whatever. Florida dude contacts me and then give him his homework. And I'm like, he's not gonna find anything, but that's fine. So I'm just waiting, like at some point I was like, this entire process will end somewhere.it won't ever complete because they won't find a location, we won't find the lease, the construction budget will be out of wac, like whatever, right? Like something's just not gonna align and then it won't happen. Mm-hmm. . So we started this search October of 2020 for reference. I signed my lease in July of 2021, October, 2020 to July of 2021.So, and we started like Lois and stuff in March of 2021. . So it took me a while. Mm-hmm. for us to like really just like get things together. and again, like I said, the entire time I'm waiting for like the other shoe to drop. So, yeah. So we like found a place, it was this really awesome, like in an ortho building, and I was like, oh, this is perfect.Like there's an orthodontist in this building, there's this like endo, there's perio, and then like, I can be here. Like this is cool. Like everybody I would refer to is like just right around me. Anyways, like that was the first LOI I put in, and that didn't go anywhere because the guy decided to like, keep it for himself.I'm like, bro, why would you waste my time? Like, yeah, it's fine, whatever. So then we put in like an L LOI at another place, which I had a feeling like it wasn't gonna work at that place, but I just like rolled with the punches. I'm like, all right, yeah, whatever, whatever. So we put in our l o I and in there in my head, like I had already put in there that I wanna have like cosmetic procedures.potentially Botox, fillers, whatever, that type of stuff. I wanna be able to do it at some point. Mm-hmm. . And they were like, yeah, no, you can't do that. Like, there's an ALTA in this plaza so you can't do cosmetic procedures. I'm like, what? Michael: Isn't Alta like just like hair? Or let's Sana: make up, I was like, I was like, because the, because they do free makeup if you buy $50 worth of makeup.And that's considered called is. Is that what like, wait, I have no idea. He like, wouldn't give me any insight. I was like, bro, what? Like literally I was just like, what? I was so confused and so like, I tried like a little bit to negotiate this leave. Mm-hmm. and I was like, ok, fine. I can look past that. Like this is like on the second floor and Okay.Like everybody knows how complicated dental plumbing is. Right? So the first floor, like whatever was below that space, was already like built out. Mm-hmm. . So we had told them like we would need to go through their ceiling. to do our plumbing, but we'll do it like after hours on the weekends. Like we will not disrupt business hours.And the landlord's like, Nope, not allowed. We're like, can we like ask the the person else it? I was like, no. He was like, no, not allowed. We're like, all right, well here's your l o I. Here's your lease. Bye. Like, okay, this. So like at that point I'm like, see guys, like this is why I'm not committed to anything.Like, cuz I knew what was gonna happen. Yeah. I already lost like two places at this point. I've spent like $5,000 on lease reviews to go nowhere. I'm like, well this is just really stupid. I'm like, this is a lot of money. And I was like, now I need to go work extra hours at my job. Like, this is dumb. Yeah. So then I found this.and we're like, okay, so we're doing the lease review. And like the landlord here, same thing was like, there was just like so much back and forth. They have never like leased out to a dentist. So they just trusted nothing because we don't have, like, I don't have like a solid business plan. It's like me, my word document that I made with all my projected things that I'm like, I can accomplish all of these things because I believe in myself and here's my business plan and this is what most dentists do and this is what's projected.And here you go, enjoy. Right? And they're like, yeah, no, that's like not real. Like this is all made up. And I'm like, you're right, it is. I made it all up. It was really great . And they're like, great. I made all that up. It's so great. I made it up on my kitchen table, so it's fine. Yeah. Um, yeah. And so that was very difficult for them to like, trust us.Like, trust me. Mm-hmm. , they're like, you won't be able to pay your rent. I was like, I mean, your rent's a little high, so, Couldn't Michael: negotiate that down a little bit. Negotiate, you're probably right. Sana: Little high's a little high, but whatever. so, yeah. So we ended up negotiating that lease and it worked out and I signed my lease July of 2021 and that was it.And then we signed the lease and we were here. Okay. So that's like one pause, that's like one story. We're gonna pause right there. Okay. Okay. So I have three kids by the way. Okay. So I, three kids. I have a 12 year old, I have a three-year-old and I have a nine month old. Yeah. So, yeah. So after my second, yes, so after I had my first two kids, I was like, yeah, like I'm not having, I'm not having any more kids.Like I can't. Maybe t m i, but whatever, like real life here it is. Like I had fertility problems, so like mm-hmm. , having my daughter was very difficult. And like after going through that, my husband are like, okay. Yeah. Like, okay, we're good. Like we got one boy, we got one girl. Like, it's good. Like we're done.Yeah. Okay. So like, that's fine. Right. Okay. Tell me why. Like August of 2021, I found out I was Michael: as soon as you, when did you sign the, in July of 2021. And then in August. How were you, talk to me about that thought process when that happened. Like how were you thinking in the sense of like, why me, why now? Or were you like, this is great, this is fantastic. Sana: No, I was like, so how do I get outta his leaseI was like, wait a minute. Ok. I was like, it's fine. Right? It's fine. We can get out of it. Like, dude, I signed a 15 year lease. it's a very long lease. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I was like, what? That can't be right. That's, that's not true. That's not true life. And it was, it was a very true life. And I remember when my, when I started with my consultant, he told me two things, do not make any big purchases and do not get pregnant.Who is your consultant? Mike Ncio. Next level consultant. Okay. Yeah, Michael: yeah, yeah. How do you like Sana: working with them? Oh my god, he was amazing. Awesome. I think I referred like everybody to him and he is awesome. So everybody who's watching this should also go call Mike because he is literally amazing. And all of this would not be here if it wasn't for him.because he got me through a lot of crap, like a lot like dude, I was like a hormonal person, right? Like my diapers are really Michael: expensive. Diapers are, they still aren't really expensive. They're expensive. And Sana: I just sleep trained My eight month old or how old is she? No, she's a year and a half. Oh God, no.My son now is nine months old. Kidding. Everything confused. Like that's how discombobulated I am. But yeah, no, Mike really helped me through a lot of stuff. And so I called him and I was like, Hey Mike, I have to tell you something. And I remember this like, he was the, besides my husband, who also didn't believe me that I was pregnant.Mike was the second person that I told that I was pregnant. And he also didn't believe me. He like thought I was joking. Yeah. And I was like, no, I'm not. Like I'm, I'm serious. I'm so serious. p my entire like buildout, I was also building a human inside my body. That was kind. Yeah. So, yes.Michael: That's pretty intense. Mm. That's Sana: okay. And so we opened in March of 2022. My son was born on four 20 of 2022. Michael: Yeah. Sana: Wait, did you catch his Michael: birthday April? Oh, oh, okay. I was like, I thought just a month later, I don't get it, but No, yeah, yeah, I get it. Sana: But yes, it was a month later, literally, so like I opened and it was, I was like literally nine months pregnant when I opened.And then I had my son a week a month later, and then two weeks after I had him, you better believe I did 17 fillings on my first day back, man. Michael: Yeah. So, okay. So you opened your practice, right? Yeah. And we can talk about, like, a little bit about the whole part of, uh, opening up. I actually wanted to go back a little bit and talk about that generational trauma, but we can do that another episode or something like that.But when it comes to the opening up the practice and now you're, how many months or years open now? Sana: so 11 months open now. Michael: Okay. And has, how does the trajectory look? Has it been like Sana: okay, so it was like this, okay, so we are like hyping up to like open, like open, and then it's like give birth, boom,Okay, cool. So it's like, okay, so, so we're here like, oh, everything's really cool. People like this pregnant dentist. Like, okay, she's so cute. Oh my God, you're having a baby. Oh, practice. We're so proud of you have a baby. Literally like rapid decline. And then I came, so I came back from maternity leave, like I came back from maternity.Okay. Just two weeks count as maternity leave. No, it doesn't. I came back from giving birth. Yeah, right. 10 days later. Okay. I was like, I'll be back from vacation guys. I'll be our B. Just, yeah. Don't let anything break when I, you know, until I get back. Literally. . So then when I got back I was only seeing patients like once a week because I was like, guys, I just had a baby.Like I need to heal a little bit. So like Michael: need to heal. You just gave life, you need to heal a little bit. Sana: Also some stitches like, don't mind me, but like I, you know, one day a week. Yeah. So came back one day a week and then in, so that was like all of May. I was here for one day a week and then in June is when I came back, like came back from maternity leave.So that was like three days a week. And then in May I'm just like trying to like build this back up like very slowly to like get ready for June. So we're like building back up. And then my hygienist, cause I hired a hygienist cause I hate h sorry, hygienist, but like, it's probably like for the benefit of my patients that everybody doesn't get a deep cleaning.Cuz if I see them, that's what they would get. Oh. Because it's I don't have the hands of an angel. So. . I have a hygienist against all the things that everybody says for startups, you don't need it, do your own hygiene, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Anyways, I got a hygienist, so literally as I'm like recovering from birth giving, she gives me her notice cuz she's like, Hey.Yeah, right. Freaking heartland. She was like, Hey Doc, like I need benefits and this Heartland office is gonna like give me medical insurance for my kid. And I was like, you know, like I respect that. Mm-hmm. and I like, can't be mad at you for it. So thank you for the couple of days that you gave me. Good luck.I'll send you your W2 next year. And, uh, how many Michael: employees at this time have you had? Sana: okay. I feel like I have a lot of employees. Again, another topic for another day because against all startup things, I think I have like, I'm like, just like way overstaffed, but like in a good way. How many do you have right now?Oh my God. Okay. Lemme count. I'm my office manager, Diana. I have my treatment coordinator who is like double serving as my assistant right now because long story short, my assistant quit last week, so that was kind of cool. Anyways, so my treatment coordinator Casie, so it's two.Mm-hmm. . Then I have my hygienist, three, I have my life assistant. That's a whole other topic for another Michael: life assistant you said? Yes. Okay. And she works at the practice? Sana: Yeah, she does like things for me here and then she would like do things for me, like all the errands that I would need to do, like all like a bunch of like admin stuff that like, it's not like office manager stuff, it's just like more like me stuff, but like, I just like responding to emails and like she runs my social media and like just that kind of stuff.Okay. But now since last week we've had a lot of changes, so now she's at the front desk, so she's. receptionist also now. Okay. She's like, my life is slash office receptionist. That's four. And then I have a nurse practitioner because I'm also a med spa. So that's a whole other topic. Yes. So five. And then my nurse practitioner has a medical assistant, so that's six.Michael: Okay. So you have six employees in total. Why'd you decide to become a med spa? How did you like H? How's that coming along? The med spa Sana: part? Oh my god. It's like a whole other story. Okay. Okay. So we'll back up. So when I was making this like concept, right? Mm-hmm. , people hate the dentist. People love the spa.So I was like, oh yeah, like we'll make this like dental experience, very spa-like that was like the goal spa-like dental experience. So then I'm doing my branding and all this stuff, so I'm like, oh yeah, dental studio and spa. So like in my head when I'm like, it's a spa dental studio. There's aromatherapies, you get fuzzy blankets, you get noise canceling headphones.Like all the millennial stuff, right? Like all the millennial things. Yeah. And that's what, that's what it was in my head. And then I started like doing all this, like marketing and stuff and people are like, so what's the spa? And I'm like, it's the fuzzy blanket. and this. Branded Chapstick, Oh, you wanted a facial? Yeah. I don't have that. Sorry. Oh, Michael: okay. Sana: Oh, you want a massage? Yeah, we don't do those here. Sorry. that's how it started. I was like, okay, so people are respecting a spa, like, okay, sounds good. So like, eight months pregnant, opening a scratch startup, and people want a freaking spa.So I'm like, what the heck? What? So I had like, I have four, I had four empty ops. Cause so my office has seven ops. I got equipment for three, and then I had four empty ones. I was like, all right, we're gonna rent one of these out to an esthetician. There you go. Wesley Chapel, here's your facial. Come and get one.There you go. Yeah. , I rented it, I rented out a room to an esthetician and then, so that was whatever, like, I'm, I wasn't like really in charge of anything. Like she did her own thing. It was just like rented space. And I was like, oh, thanks for like the $500 for my super expensive rent. Yeah. Put that Michael: towards that as one.Wait real quick. Put a timeout. How much is Sana: rent? Oh my God. Stop. We really wanna know. It's like $8,000. Michael: How many, how many ops do you have? Seven. Are they all plumbed and, oh, okay. Sana: But that's just my rent. Like I'm just paying this guy to pay his mortgage. Michael: Was there any free rent? Six months. What was your tie?Sana: Allowance?Oh my god. What was it? 72,000. Not a lot of thousands. Not Michael: enough . Not a lot of thousands. I'm looking to be a millionaire. Not a thousandaire. What is wrong with that man? Like, what is Sana: this? I was like, dude, I was like, I'm signing a 15 year lease, 15 years. I was like, the baby that's in my stomach will be 15 years old.Oh yeah. Like he'll be getting his license. That's how long this lease is. Okay, thank you. Michael: So here's showing 2000. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So un paused back to the, the spot. Sana: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then I got the esthetician and then people were getting facials and that was cool. And then I was like, oh, I wanna do Botox and fillers and like I had taken a course for it, but I'm the type of person, like I'm a perfectionist, like, I don't wanna do it.but I know people want Botox and fillers. I kind of nervous, so I got a nurse practitioner. I was like, ah, like one day a week, just like, come, like, Botox these people up. Mm-hmm. , we started doing that. And then I guess like all the laser reps in the United States, just, I, I don't, I don't understand, like, do they have like a, oh, this person advertised that they do Botox.Let's go attack them with our sales rep, Venus Literally they would like just, they would just show up. They would just show up at the front desk. this is before my therapist taught me that I have to put boundaries. Okay. So like, I've, I've done a lot of therapy in my life. Hang out again.Michael: Pause you going, you going to therapy? Hell yeah. What, when did you start going? Sana: So I was in therapy before When I went through like all the oh my god, there's like so much you don't know about me, but , , there's a lot. I just met you right now. just met me.There's so much you don't know about me. But, so I went through like all this stuff, like in high school, like in college, whatever, like teen mom, like okay, like all this like traumatic, traumatic stuff, right? So like, just like a synopsis, like I'm a survivor of like domestic abuse and sexual assault, right?So like that's like a lot of my traumas. And so I was going to therapy before, but I was like lying in therapy and like just F y I, if you lie in therapy, it doesn't work. So I was lying in therapy and it didn't work very well. So I stopped going to therapy and then I restarted therapy last year maybe.Yeah, I started restarted therapy last year and now I have this really awesome therapist who's like a mom therapist. and she just like understands like working moms. Anyways, Michael: my therapist what, real quick, what made you want to start therapy? Sana: as you can tell, I have the brain of a squirrel and I have a lot of things I need to talk about.And my husband doesn't understand anything about dentistry. He also doesn't understand anything about owning a business. He also is not a mom. And I just like, I basically talk to patients. I talk to my staff, I talk to my kids, I talk to my husband and that's it. I was like, I need an outlet.Like also I have all of these like negative coping mechanisms and I have zero boundaries, so I literally gotta get my together. negative coping mechanism is basically like, , I'll just like let people just do whatever and I like, don't, I just like, I'm like, OK, sounds good. Like I'm very like PE people pleaser. Even if I'm like, no, like I don't wanna do that. Like, or I'm like always just like preparing for the worst. So like, I'll be like in this like really great like celebratory moment and I'm like, I need to prepare for like the apocalypse.And it's like, dude, we're literally just eating Taco Bell. Can you relax? Yeah. And well, no I can't, I can't celebrate this Mexican pizza comeback right now. . I'm afraid that the Mexican pizza will also then be taken off the menu. So the Michael: Mexican pizza combo, , it didn't get taken off. Didn't it again? Or, I dunno.It's Sana: not taken off. Okay. Then it came back and now. , I'm supposed to celebrate this comeback of the Mexican pizza, but in my head I know that they will take it away again. Michael: Okay, . So those are the negative coping mechanisms. What I mean, ok, I Sana: get you, I get you Like very, more like dramatic, like other types of things, but that's just like me trying to again, like deflect and make something a joke, like that's another negative coping mechanism.I just make all this serious stinky stuff a joke all the time and I'm like, it's, it's fine. It's ok. It's ok. I like, you know, like that meme where it's like everything's on fire around Michael: other guy. Like, it's fine. This is fine. This is fine. Sana: It's, it's fine. Yeah. That's like me as a person. Michael: Okay. Okay. Okay. So un pause, fast, fast forward back Sana: to the, the med spa and the laser reps and having no boundaries.Like, I would be like, oh yeah, if somebody wants to like, come talk to me, like, yeah, just let them know. Whatever. Right? So I'm like getting pulled out of the operatory. They're like, oh, doc, so and so wants to talk to you, so and so called for you. And I'm like, oh, cool. Ok. And I'm like, wait, I can't talk to all these people.Like I just, I can't do it. And I'm also really bad at saying no. So somehow these guys come in, then they convince me with all their sales preppiness that I need a Morpheus machine. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. I wanna get rid of my double G. So, you're right. Let's get a amorphous, it's fine. Let's do it.Okay. That's a lot of thousands of dollars. Okay. Sounds good. Did you get it? Yeah, I, I got it. Michael: Man, their sales preppiness is good. Huh? Sana: Or my boundaries are lacking. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Michael: Like that's true. You could have just been so looking at IT app, but what have you improved that or what, what's going on with Sana: that?Yeah. No, I've improved it. I stopped buying stuff. I've been cut off, so I'm not buying things anymore. Mm-hmm. , but I've also. . I was just, I just was looking like, where is, how is society going? Like what's like on the up and on, the up and up and it's med spas that is on the up and up, right?Mm-hmm. , everybody wants to be in aesthetics and cosmetics and this and that and whatever. And so I'm like, all right, well people are expecting a spa, so we're gonna make it a freaking spa and we're gonna become a med spa. Like, that's it. We're doing it. I don't wanna be like, oh yeah, come get your facial.Like, no, you can go down to the salon suite down there. Go get your facial over there. Mm-hmm. , we have lasers here. We have a medical director that's this, this person is the medical director. Like we do medical things here. So it just like was a really quick, like all of a sudden it started as Botox and fillers.Then all these reps are coming in and they're like telling me about all this like, cool stuff. And I'm like, wait, like why aren't we incorporating this? Like that just like makes natural sense, right? And then my practitioner, she used to work at another med spa, she had all that experience and I was, I was like asking her, I was like, well, what could we do to like build this side of the office?&

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍In this episode, Dr. Tom Orent, gives us a behind the scenes view of his 20, 20, 20, new patient exam process. Dr. Orent notes that there are 3 main rules when talking to a asymptomatic patient and discussing treatment:‍Don't take too much of their time.‍Don't take too much of their money.‍Don't hurt them.‍It's important to remember that new patients will most likely be sensitive to all three of these points when undergoing treatment or treatment planning. Dr. Orent recommends a more gentle approach when immediate attention isn't required. He takes his patients through phases rather than overloading new patients with worries of payments, time, and pain. Phase one of Tom's 20, 20, 20, process involves the lower ticket items that the patient needs, and eases into later phases with more comprehensive treatment.‍Listen in for more tips from Dr. Tom Orent on higher treatment conversion rates, happier patients, and profitability.‍You can reach out to Tom Orent here:‍Tom's 4-Step System to Safely Withdraw From PPOsPPO Exit Facebook Group‍Other Mentions and Links:‍Gordon ChristensenPete DawsonJohn KoisFrank Spear‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Tom. So talk to us about patient retention. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with this? . Tom: looking at new patient retention, uh, it, it's critical, but before we get into how to do it, let's talk about why you'd wanna do it.Mm-hmm. , why is it so important? Why is it critical? Let's say a healthy new patient flow for a GP is 25 or 35, let's say per month. So I dunno, about 400 patients, new patients a year, The average lifetime value of a new patient in a, in a general practice is over $6,200. So that's a lot of money.Lifetime value for each one who comes in and. . if you could only increase new patient retention, let's say just by 20%, that's 80 more patients a year who are with your practice times, however many years are gonna be there. That one year. Those 80 patients, the average lifetime value multiplied out, you're looking at just shy of 500,000.That's a half million dollars increase in the value of the practice over a few years. So we're gonna talk about something that I call the twenty twenty twenty new patient exam. Uh, before I get into detail on how to. , let me tell you who this is not for, cuz it's really important that I make this clear even before I tell you who it's not for, we're talking about the most common kind of patient, the asymptomatic, no symptoms comes into the office.I think everything is just fine. I'm just here for a cleaning and a checkup. if the patient has an emergency, if the patient has a broken tooth, if the patient says I need a mile reconstruction, that's a different. what we're talking about today is retaining the vast majority of the highest likelihood of the patient coming in, and those are the people who say, yeah, I think I'm just fine.All right, so who, this is not for, if you have the gift that Gordon Christensen or Pete Dawson or John COIs or Frank Spear or, or any of those guys where they can just meet a new patient who has no symptoms, thought everything was fine, sees that they really do need massive work, and within, you know, a short period of time on that first.You're able to get across to the patient, the relationship, the trust, and get them to say yes to let's say, you know, 20, 30, 40,000. Case, then this is not for you. Now, I would say that the vast majority of us, I certainly am not in the category of being able to do that with an asymptomatic patient who walked in and said, yeah, I'm great.I'm fine. I don't need anything. all right, so this is for everybody else. what you wanna do is you wanna make sure that you're not scaring away. The new patient by telling 'em everything that they need immediately when they told you already that they think everything is fine, that they don't have any symptoms.and by the way, I mentioned Pete Dawson. I loved Pete. Uh, he wrote the forward of one of my books, and so I went through all of his courses and, and I learned everything. And clinically, it was amazing. . The problem is I came back into my office after two years of those courses and, and I was much better clinically, but when I tried to do what he said as far as case presentation went, and, you know, going through the whole thing with a brand new patient.not too long into this, Isabel, my office manager takes me aside and she hands me this big legal pad with a bunch of names on it, and I said, what's that? She said, uh, do you recognize these names? I said, no. I said, who are these? . She said, exactly. She said, those are all the new patients who came in once you presented massive cases and they ran out the back door.and she handed me this thing. I was like, whoa. I had no idea. So she didn't know how to fix it. I didn't know how to fix it, but I knew I had a problem. Mm-hmm. . And the problem was I was using great clinical skills, but when I came to the presentation, I was trying to do the, Dawson Pinky presentation and say, this is everything you need.There was no trust, there was no relationship. . So over the years I did a lot of trial and error and I figured out a way to get by this, and I came up with three rules. So four your docs out there. If you're writing anything down at all, write down these three rules. This is for the asymptomatic brand new patient when you meet them.Number one is don't take much of their time, so a treatment plan that requires them to come back 5, 6, 8, 10 times over the next several months. , it's already gonna be too much Friction don't take much of their money. So if the out-of-pocket is, you know, under a thousand dollars, that's fine. But if the out and if five, six, $700, that's all good.But if the out-of-pockets gonna be 4, 5, 6, 8, 10,000 or $15,000, again, you're putting in stress in a relationship that doesn't need to be there yet, and you can retain that patient. If you don't do that at that point, I'm gonna tell you how to do that right now. Number three is don't hurt. Now you may be thinking, Tom, why would I wanna hurt a pa?Well, you don't wanna hurt anybody, but you especially can't hurt a new patient. Cuz if you do, they're gone. So those are the three rules. what you do is you develop what I would call a phase one treatment plan, but you don't mention to the patient that it's a phase one treatment plan initially. this is where the rubber meets the road.All you're doing is developing your phase one. If we were back in dental school, they wouldn't have you treatment plan an asymptomatic patient from beginning to end or any patient symptoms or otherwise. They wouldn't have you treatment plan the entire patient. You would do our first phase and then get that under control, whatever.So kind of back to the roots a little bit. Now, what could be in that phase where phase one plan that won't take more than a few visits, won't take much of their money and won't hurt them, won't take much of their time. . All right. You could do whatever's needed, but you could do perio phase one, deep scaling and root planning.Let's say you found some pit fisher and groove composites that were needed. You could do those. Let's say the patient requested whitening. Okay, that's fine as well. this is some examples, but it's low cost, low impact, nothing major. Not gonna scare 'em, not gonna take much of their time or money.So that's a phase one. . Now, let's say you're looking in their mouth and you see that their posterior teeth have all these wide open margins on th 30 year old amalgams, and you pro probably have recurrent carries and frack, whatever. Mm-hmm. . How can you not tell them that? How can you just do a plan and tell them everything's great other than this?Well, you can't, that wouldn't be ethical at all. So I had to bridge that gap and figure out a way to present something to them that would be easy, but at the same time would be ethical and, just be honest. So the way that I did that and the way that I recommend doing. Let's say you're just about done with your phase one plans.you've actually presented it and she said, yeah, that's fine. Just a couple visits and not much money. So she is, that's fine. Then I would say, Mrs. Jones, I see that you have a number of old Mercury silver fillings in the back teeth and they look like they were done quite some time ago.Is that right? And she would say, well, yeah, they were those redundant as a kid. Now, you know, she's thinking that you're gonna say that you need all this work in the back and, you know, crowns. And she's thinking, oh my God, not this. I hope I don't need all this work. don't even know this guy. These teeth feel fine.Nobody ever told me I need anything back here. I let her think what she wants to think. But I finish up this sentence with, I made a note in my record, and by the way, I did make a note in my record. Mm-hmm. , so I case noted this. I said, I made a note in my record that in the not too distant future, I'd like to have you back for a more complete and thorough evaluation of those back teeth, just so that we don't miss anything important.Would that be okay? And of course she's gonna say, yes, she's, you know that, that's all fine. She's not gonna say no to that. And so now she's happy. Cuz at this point all I've done is that little phase one plant and I. After we finish this first phase that we've just discussed, I'd like to have you back for more complete and thorough evaluation.So now I've told her that this is a first phase, that I've not done a comprehensive exam, that I've not at all addressed all of the back things that we're looking at with all those big silver fillings, but that I do, and I might even mention to her, I do see some areas where, the filling itself isn't as tight against the tooth as it used to be, and it's letting things leak in there.So that is something I'd like to take a look at, just so that we don't miss anything really important. Then I go through that first phase. She accepts it. You're gonna get really high acceptance of that. Again, to be clear, this is not a patient who came in with. a fracture, an abscess, um, or telling you that they need a massive amount of work, those patients know they need it.I would move forward with whatever you think is appropriate at that time with that patient. Mm-hmm. , but because there's no relationship and there's no trust without relationship. and because the patient came in presenting saying, I have no problems. I think I just need a cleaning and a checkup. And that's your classic bread and butter patient who does need a bunch of work.so we don't wanna scare 'em away. 95% of my new asymptomatic patients were really happy and they stayed with me and they came back and then we did the next phase evaluations. not only credible, because you're telling the truth, um, but it's something where when they come back, it's already a seed in their mind that they know that there's other stuff to do and they're happy that you didn't talk about it before.you and I talked a little bit before we started that, um, really, I mean, the big 800 pound gorilla in the room is insurance. I mean, we're not gonna get into insurance today, maybe another time, but, but the big 800 pound gorilla is insurance. Why? Because. The vast majority of gps in the United States are mired in PPOs, and I was, I mean, I had that in my practice.My dad had it in his. and it was what was killing me. and it took me about two years to develop a system, a strategy to get out of those PPOs. But I did it. So I went a hundred percent fee for service. And then when my dad was dying of cancer, he asked me to take over his practice and help my mom out financially, cuz all he had was debt.He had nothing put away as in zero, no life insurance, nothing. Mm-hmm . It took my wife and me about two and a half years in that practice, the Worcester practice to get 13 out of his 15 plans gone and make it a very profitable practice as well. . And so I had mentioned, uh, earlier that, uh, what, what, what I have available for your listener is it's a, uh, free special report.It's called a four Step System that dentists use to safely and predictably withdraw from PPOs and increase net profit. So if your folks would like that, they can get it right where you see over my shoulder. , www dot ppo fo and foe is F oe, so ppo fo.com. And that's, um, that's about it. I, I, I hope that covered it Well, not for Michael: you.No. Yeah, that was fantastic, Tom. I appreciate it. And then we'll, play all that in the show notes below, but real quick, I wanna rewind a little bit to where we talk about, don't take too much of their. The three steps don't take too much of their money. So there's three Tom: rules. Yeah, there's three rules.Rule number one is don't take too much of their time. And what I mean by time is the number of visits. Imagine that you're the new patient, you don't have any symptoms. You presented to a doctor and you said, I'm just here for a checkup or a regular physical, whatever, they tell you you need to come back for a series of additional tests and treatments and and time outta work and whatever.When you thought that there was nothing wrong and even. Maybe you just moved from another town and your previous dentist, who you were with for 20 years who you loved to death told you you were in good shape. again, to just to be clear, and I know I've said this a couple times, but it's important. This is not the patient who has a fractured tooth abscess emergency needs, uh, or massive reconstruction, and they know it and they present that to you that I need this all fixed.This is the patient who thinks everything is just fine. And that's a lot of the patients we see today. So that was rule number one, is not a lot of time number. don't take much of their money, and I don't have an exact number, but I used to keep it well under a thousand dollars, so it might be three, four, $500 maximum.And then they have some insurance that kicks in, you know, for part of it. Uh, but, but not much out of their pocket. Number three is don't hurt 'em. And, um, again, not to be facetious, we don't wanna hurt anybody, but, but especially with a brand new patient. I mean, if you inject them for the first time and you're doing a small filling or whatever it is you happen to be doing, or your, your perio phase.and you hurt them, they're not coming back. I mean, there's a lot of dentists out there who'd be happy to, you know, treat them and do it, uh, in a very comfortable manner. So you just have to be extra, extra kind and careful to make sure that none of that happens and you'll retain a very high level of your, uh, very high percentage of your new patients.It's wonderful, man. I Michael: like the, how you broke that down with the phases too, how you kind of do it all in a slow type of growth, right? But you're building that, but you said you're building that relationship, that trust, but you. Establish the foundation with the relationship first. Right. And I feel like sometimes we just wanna hurry up and, And get Tom: that in there. Well, the, the funny thing is when my office manager in the Framingham office, Isabel, when she handed me that, that, um, notepad, it was a legal pad. Mm-hmm. . And it had pages and scrolled of handwritten names. I was like, what is this? She said, exactly.You don't know who these people are, do you? She said, I said, no. I said, Isabel, what's your point? Get, get to the point she, . Every one of those on those three or four pages is a new patient who you did the long form, you know, full exam and comprehensive treatment planning and so forth. All asymptomatic patients, all patients who came in saying, I, I think I'm fine.I just need a cleaning and a checkup. And you told them they need 10 50 and 2030, what? Whatever you saw, and you were probably right, but you blew them all out the back door and, and again, at that point, We didn't have a solution, so I knew I had a problem, but I didn't have a solution and it took me a couple years to develop what I call the twenty twenty twenty new patient exam for maximum new patient retention, and that's what we just discussed.Michael: Nice. Awesome. Tom, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find 'em on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly? Tom: First of all, there's pfo.com, which has my information when they download that.That'll have all my, my contact information in there, that special report. The other thing they could do is go to my Facebook group. The FA Facebook group is PPO O Exit. So it's a Facebook group and it's called PPO O Exit. Michael: Nice. So guys, make sure you downloaded the special report. Go on the show notes below.Everything's gonna be in the show notes below. Click on the links. And Tom, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning Marketing. Tom: Michael, thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍‍Guest: Zhanna KonovalenkoBusiness Name: ZK Coaching LLCCheck out Zhanna's Media:‍LinkedInSign Up for Zhanna's Mailing List!‍Other Mentions and Links:Master Your Emotions - BookDale CarnegieNapoleon HillTony RobbinsMartha BeckLife Coach SchoolLife Coach School Podcast‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Taking action from a negative emotion will often result in a negative outcome!Look at the reasons BEHIND your money goals. Math is simple, but drama around money can be complex.If discipline is the only way to meet your goals, you may find yourself burning out!Tying your self worth directly to your work performance is a fast-track to negativity.Marketing your practice is about how you can help people, not how you can get more patients.Niching down your services when marketing will go a long way!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Dr. K, how's it going? ? Zhanna: Hi Michael, I'm doing amazing. How are you? Michael: I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking right now, where are you located? Zhanna: Uh, I'm in northern California on the peninsula. Uhhuh, and um, foster City. Michael: Okay, nice, nice. Awesome. So let's dive into it. Tell us a little bit about your past, your present. How'd you get to where you are? . Zhanna: Sure. It's, uh, it's a long, it's a long story . Mm-hmm. , but I try to make it short. So I am I'm a board certified orthodontist, but I'm also a dental coach. That is my main focus on my passion, is my coaching practice where I help busy doctors create a thriving work and life balance so they can succeed, uh, without burning out and the way I got there.So I'm a doctor and a coach. I am actually something that's called a foreign trained dentist. So I was born and raised, not in the United States. I was born and raised in the Ukraine. Uh, a country that sadly many people know more about now with what's going on there. and, uh, so I grew up there.my father is a dentist, so I come from a family of doctors. and when I was about 15, you know, I decided to go to dental school. back home, it was actually in, in Moscow, in the Ukraine, but I've always had. Two passions. I've always wanted to study abroad. I don't even know why , we didn't even have internet back then in the nineties, but I've always wanted to study abroad and I always had passion for, behavioral psychology, motivation.What makes people successful? Midway through dental school in Russia, I decide to move to Europe. So I turned 18 and on my own I moved to Prague, Czech Republic. That's where I finished my dental school. Five years in in Charles University in Prague. moved back to Russia opened a general dentistry practice with my father, who still practices there.Worked there for about a year and decided that I wanted to move to the United States. So 13 years ago I moved to the us learned the language went back to dental school. Your listeners who are foreign trained dentists would understand this track. If you are trained in another country, uh, other than the US as a dentist, when you move here, you have to get recertified, meaning you have to go back to dental school for a shorter number of years.It was two years for me. I went to University of Pacific here in California in San Francisco. And after that I decided to specialize in Orthodon. So I went to the residency on the East coast in Philadelphia, temple, and became an orthodontist. And after that I decided, nah, it's too cold. Moving back, , moved across the country again and have been practicing in Northern California since, since I graduated.Okay, nice. That's a little bit how I became a dentist or orthodontist. And like I uh, mentioned to you, my passion has always been. , what makes successful people? Successful. I've always been, listening to tapes when I was like, since I was in my teens and early twenties, you know, classics, Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Martha Beck and Tawny Robbins, you know, mm-hmm.people like that. I've always had it in my, in my ears, that helped me reach to where I am in my career. and when I was practicing as an orthodontist in California, I was in a very busy practice. where I saw close to 100 patients a day. And as you can imagine, it's, you know, you have to manage your mind really well to be successful and still have that work-life balance.Mm-hmm. . And that's where I stumble across life coaching. Like it's becoming more knowing now what coaching is, but still people are like, Hmm, my coach, what is it exactly? So I discovered life coaching. I hired my coach. She really helped me. have that entrepreneurial mindset rather than an employee mindset where I was able to take control over, just my life balance really.And then I decided to get certified. I spent a year becoming certified as a life coach through, it's called the Life Coach School. There's different type of schools, but that's where I got certified in 2018. And Fast forward opened my coaching practice mostly because people around me noticed that something has shifted in me.Mm-hmm. and my colleagues start reaching out, like, how are you so chill? You saw so many patients today. So I started coaching my friends who were also dentists. And then, when the pandemic hit, I just decided to go, full speed into coaching and started my business. It's called ZK Coaching. And uh, that's has become my main focus and my main. Michael: And you still have your ortho, like your practice, your Zhanna: orthodontic practice? Yes. I'm still a board certified orthodontist. Correct. But most of my focus right now is in my coaching practice. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So if you don't mind me asking, how many times do you practice clinically in Zhanna: like a month?It varies. It really varies depending on the demand. So it's really different month to month. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So let's rewind a little bit. Why did you decide to become an orthodontist? Go that. . Zhanna: Yeah. Such a good question. Why did I decide it? Because I had a teacher in dental school who believed in me, that I could Uhhuh,Let's fit it this way. Orthodontics seemed interesting, seemed different, you know, in general dentistry, uh, or in dental school, you're not exposed very much to orthodontics. As a general dentist, you do pretty much all of the procedures except orthodon. like root canals, surgical extractions, things that endodontics, root canal specialists focus on you doing dental school, some of it.So you get experience, extraction of wisdom teeth for example, or difficult extractions, so-called surgical extractions. You do the, in dental school, that's what oral surgeons do. You probably don't place implants, although it depends on the dental school. So you kind of get exposed to different pediatric dentists, right?Working with kids. You do that in dental school, so, You get exposed to all of the specialists except for orthodontics, you don't really move teeth. as a dental student. And I just remember peeking, in an orthodontic, residency, program at my school at U O P and thinking, wow, this is so cool.You know, there, it's just you can move teeth. Like what is happening right now from one side to another? That seemed like so futuristic. And I was like, I don't know, it's so competitive. Like, should I, should I not? And you know, one of my instructor, you know, basically was a life coach . Kind of type thing and said, yeah, you totally should, you know, like that little train I thought I could.So I did. Yeah. I just decided that would be very interesting. And I was always also drawn into aesthetic and like complicated cases. And I also thought as a woman who Had envisioned a path of having a family. You know, in the future I thought that my work, work-life balance would be better with orthodontics versus, for example, surgery.Although I'm sure there's oral surgeons who have work-life balance. But that's how I thought about it at that time. So that's why I decided to go the, the route of orthodontics. Okay, Michael: nice. So then fast forward a little. and you decided to hire a coach. I mean, you've always been interested in like motivation, what makes successful people successful, like you said.Yeah. But where was the moment where you were like, I need something. This can't continue to happen like this? What? What was that like? Zhanna: Yeah. Let me see when it was, I think it was 2017, I think I was at the gym. I almost remember that. And I was running on the treadmill as many, many successful people, you know, work out to, not just be in shape, but like be in mental shape, right?Mm-hmm. . And I just remember running on the treadmill and thinking, I am still thinking about my patients. Like I am still constantly reliving all these cases and like, Like, I just want a break. . Mm-hmm. , I don't have this break. Right. And, you know, I'm the kind of person who listens to podcasts when I work out, not so much music.I think I was looking for something like efficiency, productivity, you know, I was always interested in, how, how to be like, Top organizer. Mm-hmm. . Um, and the podcast came out, the Life Coach School Podcast. So I started listening to her and I was just blown away by the principals that she was talking about, that had to do with mind management around life, really everything. when I decided to hire her. And things that I had learned completely changed the way I looked at. Work and my goals and my personal life and, just where I was heading and how I was thinking about it, that really helped me be 100% present at work when I was at work and not take it home.So I think that was kind of like a pivotal moment for me where I honestly just ended up hiring a life coach and I didn't look for it. It wasn't like a thing, at least for me that I knew about. But it was truly a pivotal moment in my life and career, obviously. Mm-hmm. since I became a life coach, that changed everything for me.Yeah, Michael: cuz that's super common, Jon, where like you're. , at night, you're thinking about work in the morning, you're thinking about work on your vacation, you're thinking about work. You know, it's just like life of an entrepreneur. So yeah. How did that change, especially when you're looking at goals, because if you, you're taking a flight right, to your vacation and you're like, you're thinking about new goals, you're, you're creative and you're like, oh man, I'm excited about this.Is that a good thing or a bad? Zhanna: I think it depends how you look at it, right? So if you're looking at it in a way that's disempowering you, that's probably not a good thing because whenever you take action from a negative emotion, you're not going to create a favorable outcome. Most of the time you really don't.So the way it, the live designed it actually, which is great because in order for you to hit your goals, you have to like what you're doing. You have to enjoy the process. You know how they always. Not about the destination, it's the process. Mm-hmm. , it really is, meaning any lofty goals requires a lot of action over a prolonged period of time.In order to do that, there's only two ways. One is through self-discipline, which we all know. One, it's hard. Second of all you, that's how you get burned out, right? You take a lot, a lot of action, and you're like forcing yourself. Verse is way number two. is when you enjoy the process, and then it's a pool, right?You're pulling yourself towards your goal. So you may be thinking about it when your plane is taking off, but you're thinking about it in an inspiring and empowered way, and that will propel you to take more productive, massive action and feel good. Michael: Gotcha. So can you gimme an example then, like on how we can utilize this?So, I mean obviously a lot of us are like, I wanna have goals to like, you know, reach a million by the end of the year on collections or whatever. Right. Is that something like you would say, yeah, you should add that in your life, like goals coaching or is it more like be content with 800,000 and you have the freedom and.you know what I mean? Kind of thing like Zhanna: that. Yeah, yeah. I see what you're saying. Mm-hmm. , um, the way I approach it, and that's definitely a topic that I coach McClue a lot on, so I always tell them, especially when it comes to the revenue goals, the money goals, there is math and then there's drama. Math is simple. Drama is what I help you with as a life coach. Mm-hmm. , for example. Let's say you make a million dollars in revenue, as a general dentist a year, and you really want to make two for whatever reason. So we would first dive in. Why do you wanna make two? Totally fine. It kind of goes back to how you said, should you be content?Like your reason, if you want to make 2 million just because Dr. Jones next door is making two, and you feel bad about yourself, this is probably not a strong enough reason for you to do what it takes to get to 2 million. Mm-hmm. . But if it's because you just want. That's a good enough reason, or you want to be able to impact more people in your community.That's a good reason. Maybe it's because you want a different lifestyle for yourself or your or your family. Do you feel good about it? That's a good enough reason. So we'll start with the reason why you want it. If you like your reason, then the rest is just math. This is what I coach my clients on. Okay, you wanna make 2 million?In a year, then tell me, we reverse engineer the result. How many weeks a year do you want to work? So let's say you wanna take two months off a year. Okay? 52 months minus eight is 44 weeks. You will be working that year. How many days a week do you wanna work? See, people don't think about that. How many weeks, uh, days of a week do you wanna work?Okay, I wanna work four days. That's the typical for general dentist. Okay. So then, That means, I think it's something around 178 days if I do my math. Math right. And then you just divide 2 million by the number of days that you're gonna work. So then you have the production goal that you need to make per day.I think it's gonna be something around $11,000, 11 and a half thousand dollars. And now when you look at that number, that helps you now narrow down, okay, how much should I. What kind of procedures should I focus on? Who will be my target market that I'm going to attract? How will I brand myself to attract that target market?And what is the value that I'm producing that they will actually want? And then you just do the rest. Michael: Gotcha. I mean, it sounds easy, Zina by like you've seen it, right? Like a lot of us aren't doing it like that, or something happens. What happens where it. Maybe we do the reverse engineering. We make it happen, but then I guess life happens, right?Like, I don't know, oh my gosh, an unexpected pregnancy, or, oh my gosh, I'm getting something happen, a natural disaster. I don't know. Things like that, right? Mm-hmm. , is that what, where the burnout comes or where does that come? Zhanna: Yeah. You know, I, the way I see it is, and the way I coach my clients is that something happens is the, Your brain talks to you or behaves to stop you from getting that goal.See, I always explain to people in a very, Basic way that we have two types of brains. We have our primitive brain that just wants to keep us safe, right? Everyone says to protect us from pain, give us pleasure and keep us condensing energy. And then we have this higher brain that is capable of planning and, you know, setting goals.So when you set your revenue goals and you do the math and you decide you know what you need to do that's here using your higher. . But then when you say life happens, like some circumstance happens, you get pregnant or, I dunno what other examples you gave me. You don't feel like it, or, staff members quit.Your marketing person goes on, I don't know, something, right? Mm-hmm. , these things happen. Our brain, our primal brain kicks in and our primals brain's only job is to keep us from taking action. It does not want us to. because the safest thing to do is to stay like in bad undercovers, watch Netflix and eatingIt's the safest way. Yeah, yeah. Right. Don't put yourselves into harm's ways. So you always go to your default unless you manage your brain. I mean, unless you manage the messages that are literally popping all these sentences every day in your brain. So when people say live happens, I always help them make it more specific, because live happens is very vague. Mm-hmm. . And when something is very vague. We can't solve for it. For it. There's no fixing, there's no solving. Life just happens. But when I coach clients and we narrow down exactly what happened, then there's always a solution. For example, you said pregnancy happens. . Okay, so I would ask my client, what do you make it mean?What does that mean that you're pregnant? And there's always some sort of a story that their primal, like that scared brain is telling them, oh, I won't be able to work, or I will get tired, or maybe I'll be sick, or all these things. And I always like to say, okay, let's write a whole list of obstacles and then we're gonna turn them into.That's what life coaching does. Unlike a consultant, it doesn't tell you what to do. It's not just about like steps or strategy, because those don't always work unless you have, unless your mind is there, right? Mm-hmm. Coaching helps you tap into your own resourcefulness so that you can figure out very quick and clear ways to solve solutions.So, in case of a pregnancy, or let's say half of your staff quit . Mm-hmm. . Okay, so neutral circumstance. Let's figure out all of the obstacles right now. Let's say there's nobody tomorrow to like open the office, how we gonna solve it? But if you just say life happened, you can't solve for that. You see? See what I'm saying?Mm-hmm. , when you're like really narrowed down, become extremely specific, anything can be solved. God. Michael: So you like hyperfocus on the situation kind of thing, right. Zhanna: Instead of you always have to, because brain just likes to throw hands up in the air and say it can't be done. Mm-hmm. . And you have to zoom back in and say, well, what exactly are we talking about here?Gotcha. Kinda like going back to the basics. Michael: So can you gimme. An example and also like a really good definition of what burnout is exactly. Sure. Cause you feel like sometimes we're like, I'm just burnout. But it's like, are you tired or are you like still, I feel like sometimes I can, you know, you can work all day and you feel still excited and happy, but that's not burnout, so, or is it?I don't know. Zhanna: Yeah. Good question. So a true, true burnout. , like a combination of mental and physical state where you are at a point where you literally cannot get out of bed, right? You are just so down. You have zero energy, you're completely exhausted, and you can barely move around like your environment, And it has three stages of the burnout, first stage. So it's not like you wake up and. Literally burned out like a match. Mm-hmm. , the stages are typically first you feel very low energy. You're very tired, you're constantly exhausted. You're having these perpetual thoughts like, oh, another day at the office, right?Like mm-hmm. You're looking at the clock and you're thinking, oh my God, another hour, another patient. Right? Stuff like that. Then there's that second stage. You becoming, it's called depersonalization where you become very cynical, right? Where you like look at your schedule and let's say you say, oh, is my 4:00 PM here yet?Like, you don't call people even by their names, right? You call them by a time, right? Or like, did that crown prep show up or are they running late? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. , you're deep like you are taking the person, like a person out, like you're grouping together, your patient, your person with.the procedure that you're doing all the time slot, whether a schedule, and then the last stage is where you are just constantly unsatisfied with your own achievements. Like nothing you do is good. You're self critic. You know, we all have that inner voice that's self-critical. That's always like, oh, I should have said this, or My hair was wrong, or, I should have changed the angle on the video or something like that.Yeah. That critic becomes so loud that you just can't stop. You're not happy with anything you do. It would look like, you know, oh, I should have cleaned the cement more around that crown that I prepped. Oh, my stitches were not great after that surgery or for orthodontist. I didn't finish with a great overbite.I could have created a better orgen for that patient, but that's for every single person. So you. Extremely self-critical of yourself, of others, and that mental state becomes psychosomatic, meaning so many thoughts, negative thoughts, start affecting your body so that you physically have no energy and you cannot.almost get out of bed. You can barely function. That is a true burnout and that is something where life coach cannot help you. You know, you have to see a psychologist, psychiatrist, you might need even medication therapy. If you're a non, if you're non-functional as an individual in a society, life coaching is not the best option for you.You can work together, you know, with a therapist and a life coach. But that's something you wanna address first. What you were talking about. You know how people say, oh, I'm so burned out, you know, I'm feeling like I'm burning out. That's not true. Burnout, it's pre burnout, but nobody really calls it pre burnout.So I usually tell people I'm a burnout coach. Mm-hmm. . And then when I do consultations with clients, that's when I determine are they in true burnout or are they, are they in pre burnout? , but if somebody can get on a call with me, they're probably not burned out. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. , like they're functioning, they're walking.They could press the button. . Yeah. So the Iron Am Burnout, uh, phrase that's been thrown out there regularly, is typically like a mental state which has several characteristics typically, uh, you. Pre burnout, when you do a lot of work, a lot more work to get somewhere. So in other words, you are not hit like you.You have your goal, you want to make certain amount of money, or you want to produce 10 podcast episode a month because you wanna have this rating and you don't see that rating. So you start producing more and more and more. And so like you're taking so much action and it's not rendering the result that you want.but all this action has an effect on your mentality and your physical body. So you are getting in this pre burnout state and those qualities that lead to that is typically perfectionism. So people who, hold themselves to unrealistic standards. Right. This we can be perfect. Yeah, it's impossible.But perfectionists, they understand that intellectually, but they're like, yeah. I'm gonna try . Yeah, right. Close as possible. I know, I get it. I understand you cannot be perfect, but I'm really gonna try. Mm-hmm. , and that's what sets you up for failure. So perfectionistic mentality, people pleasing, and a lot of the, that's a big one, especially for dentists.we are trained to follow these protocols, to cut this perfect class to cavity or have this perfect class one molar. You know, when we finish an Orthodon case, Like we are literally trained to be micro-focused on a perfect outcome really, and that permeates your life and your personality. So it's really hard to separate what you do at work.Like Sure, strive to do your best is different than strive to be perfect because it's unattainable and it leads you to. Extra amount of action that you're just literally spinning the wheels and not moving in a productive way towards your goal. And that creates burnout, right? Okay. So perfectionism be, uh, people pleasing, which kind of like a side effect of perfectionism where, you know, you wanna do your best and you have these unrealistic expectations of what you can achieve.And so when patients come into you, you wanna acc, acc accommodate them no matter what, because you're tying in your self worth to your work, right? In other words, you are thinking, you know, I'm a good doctor if I can help every patient. I'm a good doctor. If the patient leaves me a good yield purview, right?Like you're tying in your self worth to your. , and these are two separate things. And when you do that, then you wanna please everyone, right? Because you want them to say, oh, you're so great. Thank you, doctor. You're amazing. You're the best. I'm gonna write you a yield review, which has nothing to do with you as a person.And that has everything to do with the service that you provide. But the service cannot be perfect because it's impossible. So you're becoming unrealistic with what you're promising to your patients. And when you cannot meet what you had promised them, you start pupil pleas. , you know what I'm saying?Mm-hmm. . And that just leaves you feeling icky because it's unauthentic. You know, you start going oh yes. You know, Mr. Smith, you came, for the third time this week without an appointment. That's okay. We're gonna squeeze you in. You know, you came an hour late for your appointment. Oh, that's okay.We're, we're going to squeeze you in. because you are afraid that if you don't, Mr. Smith will get so upset and maybe throw a tantrum or write you about, you'll review or I don't know, scr at your staff and something like that. So you're not setting these healthy boundaries mm-hmm. that these patients really need.You know, boundaries is another big component, because you don't understand your Owen, limitations as a clinician and, and as a person. and then the last one is, it's a personality who's highly self, self-critical. , you know, low self-esteem. Mm-hmm. , people who are like, have a lot of self doubt.which sadly happens in a lot of women dentists. Which has to do with the way we're socialized. You know, men and women are socialized a little bit differently, so we're not as assertive as men and we tend to be more, more looking within ourselves and criticizing ourselves. That's why there's so fewer women leaders in dentistry, especially, you know, who are stepping forward and leading the industry.So we tend to be more self-critical. So when you are. Perfectionist, expecting impossible things from you, and you are self-critical. No matter what you do, you find the flaws. Yeah. So you'll end up people pleasing because you want them to like you, and then at the end you feel just crappy because you're not showing up as yourself, you're not being authentic, and you can't deliver what you had promised.Which feeds even more being self-critical, you end up doing extra work. More and more miles for people who will never be pleased and you end up earning out. So it's Michael: like a, let me see if I got this right. So, so if you're being very self-critical mm-hmm. , you tend to, you said compensate with perfectionism.Yeah. Pretty much. Okay. Perfectionism and then that's impossible to reach. Right. Right. Be perfect. So then you tend to people please mm-hmm. and. If somebody gets upset, then you'd be so critical against, so it's like a little Zhanna: It's a it, it's a cycles. Exactly. So it's a rated cycle. Wow. Which forces you like the only solution that you're braining him up with, will I have to do more?And then you start doing more work. That's not necessarily a thought through work. Right. Like for example, , you just start accommodating all these patients who show up without an appointment. You start giving them discounts just because you want them to like you. Like it's completely defeating the goal of your revenue and what you're set to do.Mm-hmm. . Right? Which also ties in. You probably haven't thought about your brand and what's your positioning with these people, right? Cuz you're starting to mix your personality with your business . Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you just start spinning the wheels, Throwing every, all the resources that you have and burning out, unfortunately.So then when people, you know, end up coming to me, we have to unpack all of this and go back to the basics, okay. What exactly success looks like for you at the office? What exactly does it look like for you at home? And let's make sure that your self-worth as a human has nothing to do with these two.Your self worth is. Your self-worth is Absolut. , there's nothing you can do or say that will make you more worthy or less worthy. So once you start with that, dealing with your business and your personal life becomes so much easier. See what I'm saying? Michael: Yeah. You're able to separate kind of the, the two.Mm-hmm. , uh, when it comes to, cause I think that's the hard part. I feel like a lot of times we, we don't separate it or we go through seasons, right? Mm-hmm. and I, I don't know, you can tell me if I'm wrong or not Jonna, but like sometimes I believe like. There's gonna be seasons where you're gonna have to work really hard, right?And it's gonna be like, mm-hmm. , I'm gonna do everything. And then there's seasons where you're like, yeah, we could watch Netflix today. Or, you know what I mean? We could relax and stuff like that. But there's hardly ever a moment where everything kind of just feels balanced, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. ? Zhanna: yeah, so you could do it this way. , but you could also a little bit even things out because a feeling of balance is a feeling that's created by your thoughts. So there's sometimes things in life where it's easier to do something and sometimes it's harder.Like for example, weight loss actually comes up a lot for my clients. Mm-hmm. . And you know, if it's I'm trying to think if it's September or August or September. It's easier for people to lose weight when, rather when it's end of October in November, in December, right? Mm-hmm. like the holiday spirit because of the environment.So people always say, oh my gosh, the holidays come in. There's no way I'm like, around all these food pushers. It's so much harder. So it's kind of like that rollercoaster that you described, that people think that it's easier to lose weight when. , they're not surrounded by holidays and cookies and, and Turkey and all that stuff, right?Mm-hmm. . But that's really your perception, your mindset, because if you created a sustainable goal for weight loss and how many pounds you wanna lose per month, and what are all the actions that will take you there, right? Like I'm gonna work out five times a day. I'm gonna walk 10,000 steps.I'm gonna drink 60 ounces of water. I'm going to be eating, you know, two meals. four ounces of protein and veggies like you, you become very specific, right? Then it doesn't matter. Then it's holidays. All you had to do is just manage your mind around, you know, I'm at a dinner table and my plan says to do this and, Mary here is passing a pumpkin pie.So you just have to manage your thoughts around. . I want it like a simple thought as I want it. That creates, right, like an urge for you. We think it's a fact. Like I want it means I should have it, right? Mm-hmm. . So it creates that rollercoaster effect. But if you level it out and you expect, remember that, I was telling you about obstacles and strategies, if you, anticipate all the obstacles that might happen, and the majority of obstacles really are our.How we're gonna think about what my mom says who baked a pie. She's gonna think that if I don't eat it, I don't love her. Yeah. It's not about, you know what I'm saying? Like we do these things to herself. Yeah. But if you explain to her, mom, I love you more than anything and I'm gonna have that pie tomorrow.But right now I'm just not hungry. Or I choose now to. , then it's gonna, it's gonna create a very different experience where you can equalize and balance out your effort when it's planned. Remember with that higher brain? Mm-hmm. , when you plan it out and then you manage your mind around it so that you don't have this mind drama, then you can just execute the math and everything becomes more balanced and playing field, so you don't have to go through up and down.Michael: Okay. Okay. Makes a lot of sense. Okay. I wanna ask you so much more about this stuff, but when we focus on like the business side of it, what can a dentist do today to improve their, their marketing and business with this? Zhanna: Yeah. So, as a dental coach, I think about marketing very differently than as a practitioner would.So the way I think about marketing is really you are telling people that you can help them. , that's all that marketing is. The majority of doctors think of marketing as a way to get new patients. Mm-hmm. . And when you think about, oh, I have to get people to come to my practice because my practice needs money or something like that.That's kind of like Anki way to think about it. No wonder they don't go in their, they don't take action. Mm-hmm. . Right. That's why. There's a lot of strategies on marketing out there. There's a lot of great advice, but unless you have the mindset of the person who gave, who gave you that advice, you're not likely to create the same result as their strategy promises.Mm-hmm. Right. Makes sense. Mm-hmm. ? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Makes sense. Because somebody will say, okay, let's go on social media right now. Social media is big. You have to market your practice on Instagram. They can even give you like the marketing strategy for Instagram. They're gonna say, this is what you're gonna do. You have to have a long PO post. A short post, a cur cell, a reel, and a testimony. . But if your mindset as a doctor is, oh, that sucks. I don't wanna do that. I'm, I'm, what is the reel? Even like, I am horrible on camera. Mm-hmm. , what kind of reels do you think they will create? Probably not the ones that will ex attract a lot of patients, right?Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you think about marketing is this is just me telling people that I can help them. Isn't that. You're just, your sign is open. I'm here open for you to come here and I'll help you. And I always look at it as a trifecta. So in order to be confident in telling people that you can help them, you need to believe in your product or service.You need to believe in your client or your patient, and you need to believe in yourself as a clinician. So let me give you an example for dentistry, you need to believe in your product. What services are you providing? What exactly is your dental practice doing? Are you a general dentist? Are you a specialist?I am a big proponent of having a niche. I really believe in nicheing down, and here's why I. . A lot of doctors are afraid to knee down because they are afraid that they will turn down, turn away. Some patients, right, they're, they want to attract everyone as much as possible, but if you market to everyone you attract no one buying behavior of people has changed, especially since the pandemic. People still want to buy the best product, but they also want to buy it from the best. Which means that their values need to align with yours or the other way around. Your values need to align with theirs. They want to know about you. Like for example, you, Michael, you help, practices with ground marketing, Uhhuh, , right? For marketing. And you do this by helping put the doctor's story in the forefront, create the website around their story that. The part of marketing where you connect with your customer, you tell them your story, right? You, this is your branding too.Like they need to resonate with your values and that's okay that some people will not like you, but then some people will love you and they're not gonna hesitate. They're gonna come and they're gonna bring their friends, That's how you create the brand. Recognition and loyalty. Like for example, when you think about Starbucks, what do they.Coffee, right? Mm-hmm. , like when you think coffee, you think Starbucks? Do they, do they sell sandwiches? Yeah. Do you go to Starbucks for sandwiches? No. Mm-hmm. . So by focusing on one thing, one niche coffee equals Starbucks, you will attract those people and then you can you know, increase, uh, or add other, products that you are, that you are selling or other, other, uh, services that you are providing because these people are already in.this is how it might look like for a dentist, you know, as a general dentist. And I think dentists also do that a lot. Like, marketing. I am a cosmetic dentist, right? I do just, just be the guy or the gal on the block who does amazing veneers. . It doesn't mean that you don't do rick nails and crowns and you know, fillings, but be known for that one thing.Don't be afraid to niche down and really get good at this because people wanna buy the best product, right? So believe, believe in your service what you're providing, be really great at it, or be like an aligner company. Uh, practice, right? Create the brand recognition, and that's what we'll. your clients. So it's number one, believe in your product or service.Number two is believe in your client. Really think that your patients want help. They want what you have to offer and what you have to offer will change their life for the better.Like really like zoom out. Don't just be a doctor who's diagnosing teeth and decay. Look how, what? What is the. The service that you will provide for them, the experience they you'll provide for them will have an effect on their life. So if you really believe that you have the best product, For that person that will benefit from having smile makeover or better bite or cavity free mouth and educated, about oral health so that they can educate their, uh, children and, you know, have a whole healthy family.The last pieces believe in yourself as a clinician. Mm-hmm. , you know, you need to em embrace and embody that you are the best person to help that patient. So when you, when all this trifecta is working, that's when you will market in the most efficient and the most confident way. Really, I have the best product.People want it, and I'm the best person to do that. For them to give that service, uh, to them. Now I just have to tell them I have to go meet people, tell them that I'm a dentist and make them offers to. . Yeah. So that's how I look about marketing. Michael: Okay. And I feel like a lot of the times we get kind of like, tunnel vision or, or maybe clouded with like, we just took out a huge loan, we opened up a practice and now we gotta get these new patients like as quickly and as possible.And we kind of, go really fast over these three things. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Zhanna: instead of sit down. Meditate. Yeah. That typically, that typically happens because that primal brain kicks in. Right? It's trying to keep you safe. Mm-hmm. , right? Because the primals brain's job is to. , make sure you don't take any action.So whenever these sentences pop in your head, oh, I just took out this practice loan, we have to make money. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to be an entrepreneur. You don't have to have a practice. You don't have to be a dentist, you don't have to get outta bed. You choose to now ask yourself, why do I choose to do that?Do you see? You feel like it's a little bit, it's a lot more empowering question to ask yourself. So that istalking to yourself this way and just be, be kind with yourself, you know? It's okay. It's just my conditioning. This is my habitual thinking is telling me about this loan and the pressure that I'm putting on myself and stuff like that. That's okay. Your opinion is noted, but I'm going to focus on. What actions can I take to actually efficiently, successfully get to my goal by serving people?That's, I think what's, doctors always often forget that you're not just there to, make money or diagnose cavities or extract decay teeth or straighten their teeth. You are there to serve people. How can you best serve people? Think about that. You know, or when. You are networking with other doctors for specialists.You know, they go network with general dentists. When you go to the networking event. There was I think it was like a study where they looked at 250 people who showed up to a networking event and they said everybody raised their hand who came here to sell something to another person? Everybody raised their hands all two 50, and they said, and now raise hands who came here to buy something?One person raised their hand. That's why people hate networking events, right? Yeah. Because we feel like this pressure like, oh, I have to sell myself or my practices or like, send. Send me patients, send me, uh, referrals and stuff like that. But if you're thinking, how can I serve them? Right? Because there's always value exchange in anything you are doing.You just have to think about it this way. So let's say for me, for an orthodontist, if I'm an orthodontist and I going to go meet my referring dentist, general dentist or just any dentist on the block, I want them to refer me patients, what's in it for them. . Like it's not just dropping off, uh, donuts and saying, hi, Dr.K, I'm next door. Mm-hmm. , send me patients. Yeah. Like what's in it for them? It goes back to that tripod of, belief system. What is that specific value that I can provide to your patients? If I am the veneer doctor, you know, I do the best veneers You. If your patients need veneers and need smile makeover, I can help them see this like value exchange.There's something for that referring doctor that you do as another doctor or a specialist. And when you approach it this way, it, it takes this weird sexiness out of it because you're not selling anything really. Marketing is not selling. You're just trying to, help people, show people that you can help them.Right? So like, thinking about us a little bit differently is very, . Michael: Yeah, I like that a lot. The reciprocity effect, right? Like, this is what we can do for you, kind of thing. Yes. Okay. Awesome. So then, right now, another question is, what would you like to see more from a dentist? you can put yourself in the shoes of the general population, right?Or you can put yourself in the shoes of, of what you do as a life coach and think about what would I wanna see more from? What do I feel like they're neglecting or what do I feel like maybe they can be doing increasing more on Zhanna: just like as, as a doctor in, in their practice? In terms of service or in terms of marketing?Michael: It could be in terms of, it could be in terms of both. In both. Yeah. let's go for that. Yeah, Zhanna: so I think it goes back to that nicheing, you know, having, being specific in something I think. Helpful will be for doctors is to figure out what's their target market is, because then they can help the best, these people, these patients, because these patients will receive the exact experience that they want.And that would help doctors too match with more, uh, patients. So I would love for, you know, my colleagues to really look at the map where they're at. Hopefully they have done it before they purchased a practice. Mm-hmm. , they can do it now. And if they figured out that, you know, uh, their practice is focused on dangers, but they're in the middle of their rodeo drive in la.probably not the service you wanna be selling, right? . Yeah. So you might wanna shift a little bit, or sometimes honestly, the best solution is just to sell the practice and do all that homework and move somewhere else. You know, I always tell my clients, do you want to be bright or do you wanna be rich?Right? , you kind of have to decide. So really looking into your target market. Who is in your vicinity? What do people want, right? And you can do that by, you know, setting the demographics or really get to know your, your clients, your patient. I think what's really helpful and would benefit both patients and doctors is look at your competitors.Look at their yield reviews. Look at what people are talking, what are patients not happy about? And then solve that in your practice. That will not only help you help more people, but more people will be helped with something that they need and your competitors are missing. Mm-hmm. , right? Michael: You see that?Yeah. Yeah. Makes a Zhanna: lot of. . Yeah. And you know, really, like I said, look at your numbers, figure out what your goals, figure out how you want to run your practice, what you wanna charge, what kind of people you wanna attract, and what would serve them best. Like what would, what kind of product or service you can create that will really like, create amazing experience for that.Mm-hmm. , because then that will really benefit. your patience and that will help you grow your practice too. Yeah. Okay. So I think having this like niche down approach and be really specific and serving would be helpful for both. Michael: Okay. Yeah. Awesome. And then, right now, someone who's pretty involved in like social media, you know what I mean?Mm-hmm. , like you're, you're out there and everything. And also like you're involved in the industry, but I really appreciate that you're also involved in like the lives, right? Of a lot of these. practice owners and dentists. So I wanna ask you right now, looking at it from your point of view, what do you hate?And then what do you love about dentistry? Zhanna: Ooh, what do I hate and what do I love about dentistry? How interesting. In terms of social media, I think. , I'll start with what I love. I think what I love is that I think more doctors are understanding the importance of like personal branding and bringing, bringing their own personality to their businesses, right?There's two, there's two schools of thoughts when it comes to branding your business. You can either create. Business persona that represents your brand. That is kind of like faceless, meaning you don't have to like necessarily put your own pictures everywhere, especially on social media and stuff like that.Maybe just one. But. , your customers get a sense of like the energy, the or around your business. Like what exactly, are you a boutique? Are you high volume? Like what, where exactly do you stand? So that's one approach, like this business entity or you can just be yourself and you are your own brand.Mm-hmm. and I thi, this is what I do in my business. Like what you see is my brand is me. . And I think that creates, you know, the like and trust the two important components for people to, to buy from you. Right? And I think a lot of doctors are starting to embrace that, which is very hard. So I like that, that doctors are starting to do that.And I um, you know, I applaud them because as professionals we are, we are, we are taught to be professional, right? Like personal life and professional are completely separate, you know, like tight upper lip type thing. But. people are buying from people. You know what I mean? Yeah. We can't just hide behind the mask of the white code because there was a person behind there.And as much as we wanna be perfect, people know we're not. Mm-hmm. , but they really appreciate if you're passionate about it. So that kind of bleeds into what I, I wouldn't say I hate, but I wish I could see more. Doctors being more passionate about what they're doing, which I think has to do with really finding that niche that you love.And then when you are passionate about it, people actually, customers perceive, passion as in we are going to do a better job for them. because if, like, think about it, a doctor who just comes in a, in a consult room and just spits out diagnosis, I mean, you're, you're just sitting there thinking like, like, you're an idiot because they're just talking all this terminology at you and then they tell you everything that's wrong with you and how much it's gonna cost.Right. Versus a doctor who comes and they love what they do, they're interested in you, they wanna incorporate. Uh, work that they're recommending for you with your lifestyle and how it's gonna all make it work with, you know, how much it costs and stuff like that. Who would you rather go? Probably to the second doctor, right?Mm-hmm. . Yeah, because you think like he or she will do a better job for you because they care. So I would really wish that doctors embraced more the importance of, You know, personal branding and the mindset that they bring to their daily work and finding the area that they truly love and improving as much as possible in that niche of dentistry that they're doing, because I think that will bring the best value to both the doctors and the Michael: patients. Awesome. Okay. As long as, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can. Zhanna: Yes, sure. So the main area they can find me is on LinkedIn. That's where I hang out the most. and in the show notes, we'll probably leave my my coordinates.It's just my name, Dr. Janko. And there is I have a mailing list where I send, weekly motivational and inspirational nuggets for doctors to become thriving leaders in dentistry. So we'll probably leave a link to that too so I can hop on that mailing list. Michael: Awesome. So guys, yeah, that will all be in the show notes below.So definitely reach out to Jean after that. And thank you so much for being with us on this podcast. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Zhanna: Sounds good. Thank you for having me.‍

‍In this episode, Jasmine Smith, from Versa Solutions, breaks down 5 actionable tips that we can use to ensure a smooth insurance relationship.‍Get Credentialed - Yes, credentialing can be tricky, and it may be temping to bill under your name instead of the associate performing the treatment, but don't do it! This results in a messy claim and can be a red flag for future audits.‍Sign up for EFTs - Electronic Funds Transfer methods allow payments to be easily processed and can eliminate the travel time and restrictions of physical delivery.‍Verify Benefit Eligibility - Always double check a patient's benefit eligibility. Even though they might say they are covered, making sure can avoid future disappointment.‍Document Everything - The more documentation on procedures the better! Always keep good notes to avoid claim denial.‍Review AR Weekly - Be sure to review your Accounts Receivable balance at least once per week. If this is close to zero, meaning no money is owed, your account is in a good place!‍You can reach out to Jasmine Smith here:Versa Solutions WebsiteFacebookLinkedinTwitterInstagram: @versasolutionsinc‍Other Mentions and Links:CAQH Credentialing Service (ADA)Practice by NumbersWeaveDental Intel‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareSCHEDULE A FREE DEMO TODAY!Click the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Jasmine, so talk to us about medical and dental billing. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with doing medical and dental billing? Jasmine: Right. So Michael, my experience as a, billing company owner, uh, involves mostly helping practice owners get to the bottom of their slow insurance and patient collections, and not only implement systems, um, to help achieve faster cash flow, but actually keep those systems running smoothly for them.So, We put the work in and do all of the work, . So, um, we help all kinds of specialties, practice management softwares, practice types, whether they're fee for service, p o, Medicaid. So we've seen it all, done it all. but the common denominator I noticed between all of these practices, it's staffing issues.It seems like everybody's having an issue with that right now. Mm-hmm. . So you can't keep your biller who or your office manager who's gonna make sure your claims go out, who's collecting from the patients. Who's sending statements and making follow up calls to the patients about their bills. Um, 1, 2, 3 years go by and you realize you've only gotten paid six to 7 cents of the dollar that you've actually worked for.So the other side of the staffing issues is, um, hiring someone who has good intentions, and they believe they know the ins and outs of dental billing, but they really don't, and they can create some costly mistakes for their practice. So, If as the practice owner, you're not auditing the work, things can pile up really quickly.So we've seen that happen as well. But I'm here because I wanna share five tips that every practice owner should implement that I wish everybody knew about. So the first one is get credentialed. I heard on one of your other podcasts of someone, um, really going into this point, going into depth.That was great. Don't go off and hire an associate. Allow them to treat patients in your office and then bill under your name as the treating dentist. That's not a clean claim. That's an easy way to flag an audit with the insurance company because, um, if you're attaching your narrative for, you know, a procedure whose name is at the bottom, whose name is signed at the bottom of that narrative.So, um, and if you accidentally. A batch of claims with, you know, your associate on them and you get it back and it's out of network or, you know, um, there's a denial. Then you wanna send a batch of, corrected claims with your name on it. That may cause suspicion as well. the a d a has a pre credentialing service, C A Q H, so that's a great, um, tool to use to get credentialed applications.Second one is sign up for as many EFTs as possible. We've seen a claim go out same day as the date of service, and then you get paid the very next day. We've seen these bank accounts get funded the very next day after you see the patient. So that's very, very quick. Um, a lot of the insurance companies are getting crafty with insurance, credit card payments or v c virtual credit card.Um, that's when they send you like, Hey, here's a credit card. You can process your credit card machine, for payment for this, you know, procedure. Um, but you actually. , charged a lot of fees with your merchant service. Mm-hmm. , if you do a annual, you know, credit card mm-hmm. , transaction, so there's no charge to receive EFTs from an insurance carrier.Um, and then, you know, when disaster strikes in an area which we've seen, there's been hurricanes lately. Um, the mail stops, that's tens of thousands of dollars that's waiting To get to you. So, you know, imagine if you just had that direct deposit and you can access it immediately and do what you need to do.Also, the paperwork of getting paper claims and checks all the time. It's just a bummer, . So, uh, my third tip. Is to verify. Uh, when a patient comes in and hands you an insurance card, you really need to verify the eligibility and benefits. You can't just take their word for it, that they have coverage and everything's covered. don't bill blindly don't update the benefits in the system by blindly, uh, yeah, it's the patient's job to know their benefits, but I assure you less than 10%, maybe even 5% of people actually know their benefits. , they're still gonna be upset when they have to pay that 25 dollar deductible that you didn't tell them about.So just find out beforehand. What their insurance is all about, who you're billing, even before they're seen. And if you can't do that, if you just have no time, outsource it. There's many companies that do this. Um, and my fourth tip is documentation. I also heard another one of your podcasts or someone really, um, honed in on this point.not only do x-ray. Need to justify a procedure being completed, but the clinical narrative needs to paint the picture as well. So, for example, we usually see the most denials with crowns and buildups. then we see the narrative template and we're like, oh, that's why , because the insurance carriers want to see whether it's an initial. Or replacement with the prior placement date? Was it a fracture? They need the location of the fracture. I've seen sometimes they were asking for the length and depth of the fracture. was it a fail amalgam restoration, recurrent decay? How much of the tooth had decayed before removal? How much of the tooth was remaining before the buildup?Just so much needs to be in the narrative for processing, and that will make sure that you. Your payment quicker, and if you have a denial, it would be far and few in between. And then my fifth point is with patient billing. Um, we offer a service for patient billing with our company. So we've seen it all in this area as well.Um, at the very least, you should review your new accounts on your AR on a weekly basis. So these are. Accounts, ideally that you know insurance has paid, um, and you need to review the ending balance. Every pr uh, practice management software really has a easy way for you to check this. and then you can send your statements out immediately after you re you reviewed the account.what we do is make notes on the account, just showing us where the balance is coming from. And when the patient does call, we can just locate our note and explain where the balance is coming from really easily and quickly. Um, and then when you make a rule, stick with it. Like, if you deem contacting the patients three times is enough, maybe statement, call statement, write the balance off or send them to collections.Don't let the balance linger. That's how your ar will increase over time. So just take action, you know, make some rules, set a system up with your staff and, um, your AR would, you know, look pretty clean. If your patients overpay you, this is the other hand of it, pay them back. Um, keep your AR as close to zero as possible.So not too many credits, not too many debits. Let's just, you know, keep it close to zero, which is what we try to do with our company as. Michael: nice, Jasmine, I appreciate that. Out of these five, I, I kind of wanna rewind a little bit. When you mentioned, um, the number two sign up for as many EFTs you said Yeah.As possible. Okay. Can that ever backfire or no? Jasmine: Um, I've not seen it backfire. Only when there is a recoupment that needs to happen. you know, patient. Plan actually terminated, but the insurance paid the office, they'll just take it out of the next payment. So you really have no control over that.Usually if you get paper checks, they'll ask for the money back in another check. So you really have no control over that. But you know, they'll take it out of something anyway, . Gotcha. Michael: Okay. Do you guys do medical billing too? Jasmine: Um, we send medical claims for some of our oral surgery offices, when needed, but we don't really dive into the medical billing part of it with the coding and I c D 10.Michael: Gotcha, gotcha. So then where do you see out of these five tips, like people mainly have the Jasmine: most hiccup. most hiccups is probably the verification. Um, there are so many claims that go denied or rejected because the verification wasn't done in the beginning. probably second one would be the credentialingMm-hmm. , um, hiring an associate and not putting them on the claim. It's just kind of, I see that a lot. I know it's a headache trying to credential all of your new, employees, especially if, um, you're going out of network anyway. but it's just good to put them on the claim form. And then documentation would probably be number three.why Michael: documentation, like what is not Jasmine: enough detail or not enough detail? Um, some doctors have their assistance right in the details of the narratives, and maybe they're not just, they're not trained enough or not enough was communicated with them. Um, but yeah, I, I would recommend, you know, at the end of the day, just review all of your notes.Make sure. It's completely, filled out to the brim . Yeah. Too much information is good. Um, especially when trying to get these claims paid the first time. You don't wanna have it denied and come back and wait another 30 days for that to process. So. . Michael: Yeah. Because I feel like that can be a headache, especially when you get a lot of denied claims.I mean, you're on the phone, you're at the front office, you're getting another denied claim. You know, you're, you're dealing with that and people are coming in calling and all these things. Right? So it can be tough. I like what you mentioned when you said make a rule, stick with it to you.From the many practices that work with you guys, what have you seen to be like a really fantastic role when it comes to this? Jasmine: So we, uh, contact patients six times, right? So that's our role as our billing company. If we contact the patients, we we're probably sending three statements, making three follow-up phone calls.that's our role. We stick with it. The offices tend to agree that yeah, that's a good amount of times to contact a patient about their bill. If they're not paying by then, then you know, how many other times do it. So, That's the rule, and that's good. It, when we're done with it, we exhaust all attempts.Patient either gets sent to collections or if the balance is too low, it's written off. Lots of notes are written on the, um, on the account. Popup notes are created, so before the office or the patient even comes in, they have to pay the bill. So it's smooth. It, it works. . I think that's a, that's a good rule.Sometimes they're like, did we contact them enough? I mean, we sent one statement. We, we called them, they said they'd pay it, but they never did call four more times. . Mm-hmm. . That's the rule. And then if they don't, then send it to collection. So, yeah. The amount of times of contacting a patient I think is a good rule to.Michael: Do you ever recommend like texting or emailing them or Jasmine: no? Yes. Um, now, in this day and age, take advantage of as many resources as you can. A lot of dentists have, dental intel. They have a payments feature. Practice by numbers also has a great payments feature. Um, I know we use our offices, if they have Weave, we'll use that on behalf of their office to text, you know, um, the patients and send 'em their bills.So, take advantage of, of that mailing statements is, gonna be a thing of the past Michael: now. Yeah. So then would you recommend, is that part of the six? So like, would it be like, . Then number two would be like text and th like that, or, Jasmine: yeah, yeah. Usually you can send an email and a text at the same time.That'll count as one contact, and then we'll follow up with a phone call and then send another email, text, um, we call, because we wanna make sure they're actually receiving their invoices. and if that method isn't working, we change it up, you know, especially if the patient's older, they probably need a mailed statement, so we'll, we'll change it up for them and send 'em a mailed state.Michael: Okay. Awesome. Any final piece of advice you wanna give to our listeners about medical and dental billing? Jasmine: stick with the pros. If you can't, um, do it or you feel overwhelmed with it, with your office, you don't have to worry. You know, you can outsource it. It's often cheaper than hiring a billing coordinator for your practice, um, or care than, you know, training someone to, um, do everything correctly.Hire, outsource it. If you can't, like I did, like I said with the verifications, we don't do verifications, but a lot of our offices outsource that and they see much more collections in a lower AR because of it. so yeah, don't be afraid to ask for help . Michael: Awesome, Jasmine, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her in the Dental Marketer Society Facebook or where can they reach Jasmine: out to you?Um, our website is www.versussolutionsinc.com. Uh, also on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, , everything there. So, um, yeah, feel free to reach out. We're everywhere. Michael: All right. That's gonna be in the show notes below. And Jasmine, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Jasmine: Thank you.‍

‍In this episode, Crystal May, from Devdent, details some of the essential tips and tricks around medical billing and how it can help your patients afford the care you recommend! At Devdent (Developing Dentistry,) their mission is to take the headaches out of medical billing, claims, and any appeals along the way. Crystal shows that with proper billing procedures using medical, a $10,000 treatment could be much more obtainable and affordable for your patients. She notes that it is less about "what" you are doing, but "why" you are doing it, to qualify for medical billing. If a patient's tooth is missing, and that is the reason why they are unable to chew, the procedure might qualify for medical billing!‍Follow Crystal and Michael's conversation here to learn more about how your practice could utilize medical billing!‍You can reach out to Crystal May here:Email: support@devdent.comFacebookDevdent Website‍Other Mentions and Links:‍Imagn Medical Billing SoftwareRed, white, and blue card (Medicare)Blue Cross Blue Shield‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareSCHEDULE A FREE DEMO TODAY!Click the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Crystal, so talk to us about medical and dental billing. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with doing medical and dental billing? Crystal: Absolutely. So medical billing is quite a bit different than dental billing. a lot of people are scared of it.They're intimidated. Maybe they've heard horror stories even that it takes forever to get paid or it's not worth the energy. And really my mission is just to explain to dentists how it is not as complicated as it sounds, and it's certainly worth the effort. So we get thousands and thousands of dollars of reimbursement from medical insurance for dental services. Many dentists don't even know that it's a possibility to bill medical for dental. Treatment, So when you think of an implant or a bone graft, you might be thinking, well, dental insurance might cover a little bit of that, or there might be that $1,500 per year max benefit available. But what if we could tap into their medical benefits?So when you start talking about, especially larger procedures, if your patient portion is more than $5,000, we know that dental insurance doesn't make a very big impact in that patient portion, They're still gonna be spending at least $3,500 out of pocket after they use all their dental. So the combination of adding medical billing to your dental practice allows your patients to be able to afford the care that you recommend.Taking a large treatment, 5, 10, 20, $50,000, and we can get medical insurance to pay sometimes a hundred percent of those procedures. So it's really about. Identifying the medical necessity. So you see a patient and you're trying to figure out which insurance should I build? Should I build their medical, should I build their dental?What? What are my options? And so what we do is we teach Dennis how to find the medical correlation. So when I teach about medical billing, I use the statement a lot. It's not about the what you're doing, it's about the why you're doing it. So if you can prove that there's a medical correlation to your dental, So let's say again, an implant, for example, if you can't chew because of that missing tooth, then that's a medical condition and we can actually build medical for that.Or what if you've lost that tooth for a medical reason? So maybe you took a medication that caused dry mouth. So now all of a sudden you had acid erosion and just all this enamel was gone because of this severe dry mouth. Well, we can prove the medical insurance that you are losing that tooth because of a medical condition.So it's just about the why can we tie back something that's going on inside of the mouth to the rest of the body or something in the rest of the body that's affecting the oral cav. Michael: So then once we identify the dental necessities and we decide, okay, we're gonna bill medical, right? Which sounds beautiful.Like, we're like, we wanna bill medical. Where do we go from there? Crystal: Wonderful question. So it all starts with the insurance card. So it doesn't matter how perfect the medical necessity is, you've got this patient that desperately needs this treatment and you can prove that it's directly related to an a medical condition.If the insurance policy doesn't offer dental treatment for any reason. There's nothing we can do. So sometimes our best doesn't trump the payer. Okay? So the medical insurance determines coverage. Also, remember your patient chose that plan. A lot of times we get really like emotional about how we wanna help our patient more.And darn it, this silly medical insurance won't do much, but remember, Your patient chose that plan, so they're paying a lower premium to have a higher deductible or less coverage. So, you know, we can't own that. We just have to say to them, unfortunately, the plan that you've chosen doesn't have medical benefits available.Also, let's say Medicare, so everyone knows who, what Medicare is, right? It's, it's generally thought of as a, as a 65 or older plan. . Medicare's changed a lot over the last decade, and we are getting some coverage for dental treatment through medical, red, white, and blue insurance cards.They're actually paying dental offices, but you have to sign the right paperwork. You have to be participating. So you look at the card. If it's a red, white, and blue card and you're not participating, you simply hand the card back to the patient and say, unfortunately. This plan won't pay anything here at our office, but let's say it's a good plan.You get a card and you're like, Ooh, I know that one. I think they might cover benefits at this office. You then start with the verification of benefit. So we reach out to the insurance company and we ask them for details. What's the deductible? Are there any plan limitations? Does this plan cover dental treatment for these scenarios?Maybe you're treating sleep in your practice. Well, medical billing for sleep appliances, by far the most common procedure that we bill. So you ask specifically, do they cover sleep appliances? What that end of that call? we give back to our clients a summary of coverage and we'll actually say, yay, ur nay, this plan makes sense, or this plan doesn't.Assuming it makes sense to Bill Medical. Because we've called the payer, we verified there are benefits available for these services. Now the next thing is to talk to the patient. You give them their treatment plan with all their treatment options and with all their payment options. That's gonna include potentially dental, right? Because we're still gonna build dental for class two fillings. We're still gonna build dental sometimes for the crown or restoration. Some plans only cover the implant under medical. So we're still working very closely to maximize all of the. Insurance benefits, medical and dental. And then assuming the patient wants to proceed, most of these procedures I'm talking about do require pre-auth.So we would actually then start the process of getting authorization to, to treat this patient. Um, and if that's approved, which we're averaging about 75 to 80% approvals on pre-auth. So it's a good high. As long as it's approved, then you complete treatment and you submit the claim the same day you finish the treatment.So it's really not that much different than what we do in dental, with the exception of, most dental team members are not familiar with these insurance cards, so they have to learn how to look at them and read them. Michael: Gotcha. Okay, because I was gonna ask you, why aren't people doing it more then? Well, it's Crystal: not easy. Okay. So I don't wanna make it sound like, oh my gosh. Like all you do is take a copy of the insurance card and you've got a gold ticket, right? That's not it. . You have to code it correctly. You have to have the right documentation, you have to have the right submission tools. So most of our dental practice management softwares do not include enough information on medical to even use them. when customers come to me all the time, they're using any number of the large practice management companies and they're saying, well, they say they have medical. But if you read the fine print, it's very limited. They might allow you to print out a claim, but these claims to medical have to go electronically. So one of the things that causes a little bit of an obstacle is do you have a submission tool? Do you have a way to get these claims to these medical payers? Not dental, but these medical payers electronically? So I think that's one of the obstacle. But I'd say more often than not, the biggest thing is, is dentists and dental team members don't even know that they can bill medical.It's not even so much they've tried it and struggled. It's just their, their minds are blown when I show the potential. Michael: So then what submission tool should we have or would you recommend, or how did that work? Crystal: Well, so there's a couple of different options. Some the, the manual way and the less expensive way is to go to some of the, uh, payer portals.So you could go to Blue Cross Blue Shield, for example, and you can manually submit a claim directly to them. So that does get you your electronic submission. But it doesn't provide you tracking or any automation. It's very manual. Um, the option that we provide is actually a software solution. So Dev Den offers a system called Imagine Billing, and we are a cloud-based medical billing software built specifically for dentistry.So all of our clients are dental, and everything in the software is directly related to something under the dental category. So with our solution, We have the clearinghouse connections and all the electronic communications to kind of take the technology piece out of the equation for the customer. Michael: Okay.So if I was front office right now and I'm, and let's just say there's a implant, right? That needs to be done and you're like, okay, we're gonna check that out, and stuff like that. And then you realize, okay, there is a necessity. It does, you know, the whole body is affected and things like that. I'm new, but I know dental billing, right?But if I have dev. I can just use that and then it like kind of scans it out. Crystal: Pretty much, so we built a cross code tool so you can go put a patient's entire dental treatment plan. So there's c d T codes into our software. It cross codes as it to medical forward for you. And then it also adds the diagnosis conditions that are required.So it, it really takes the coding component entirely out of it, which is a lot of fear. The dentists aren't necessarily scared about the coding because generally speaking, that falls on an office administrator of some kind, right? Mm-hmm. . So when I talk to them, they're always like, oh my gosh, how will I know what codes to use and how do I do this Crystal?I don't even know these acronyms. And so what we've done is just take away a lot of that. We've just allowed them to stick in their dental codes. So you use your C D T code, we cross it for you. We show you what documentation is required. And then part of our training program as a new customer is we teach them how to read those insurance cards.We teach them exactly what to look for. We go over case presentation and how to present estimations to their patient because you know, you now have to explain to the patient their medical benefits and if it's scary and new to you. now you don't feel like the smartest person in the room anymore, and we don't like that feeling.So we wanna make sure that our, our office admins are always the smartest person in the room when it comes to their medical insurance benefits. and then we offer, um, a lot of coaching on your clinical documentation. So, many dentists haven't looked at their clinical notes in a very long time, so they use auto notes.There's just sentences that are just click, click, click and prefilled out. Unfortunately, medical, I. Spends a lot more time and attention when looking at clinical notes than dental, so we have to do a little better job. So we teach our clients exactly what documentation they need and how to incorporate it into their everyday dental process. Michael: So then typically crystal, when someone signs on how much do they see an increase in like their collections or product? Crystal: so across the board, we have 80% success rate on all of our claims submission. That's including the worst claims out there. The best claims out there. 80% is our average approval rate.But what we're finding is patients are accepting treatment. At a faster rate because they can now afford the treatment. Imagine you had a $10,000 treatment plan and you got presented $1,500 from dental, and you were gonna owe the $8,500 difference. Now imagine I present that same $10,000 treatment plan, but I explained to you that you have to meet your $3,000 deductible and then you have a hundred percent coverage.So now that treatment plan costs the patient $3,000 instead of 85. We all know that there are far more patients who would be willing to pay 3000 than nearly 9,000. So that's the story we tell. That's the, the, the purpose of medical billing is to help patients access the care that they need. So historically, we're seeing about a 20% case acceptance increase with cases over 5,000.So if you're a $5,000 case and we can decrease patient portion, at least 20% more of those patients are proceeding with treat. . Michael: And then what headaches can we encounter with. Crystal: You're dealing with insurance, ? it's just the insurance companies. It's nothing else. The, the conversations with patients is quite easy.They're just excited. They're just really feel great that their dentist is willing to go above and beyond to help them get more, more access to PA care. Right. They're, that's what they care about. Even when deductibles are in play, even if the patient gets no actual payment from the insurance company.There's gratitude for helping them access their deductible in these medical benefits. But so that's not the obstacle. Never the patient, uh, it's never the coding. We can teach the coding. It's, it's just one plus one equals two, right? Mm-hmm. , it's not challenging. but it's the insurance payers. One minute one payer says this.And literally the next claim, we call back and we'll get a different response. So the quality of representatives that are answering the phone are, are quite low. They haven't been well trained, they're not very familiar. So you get really inaccurate information will literally be told, yes, we'll pay for this.And so we submit the claim with an approval number and they'll deny saying We changed our mind. So then we have to appeal it. Now again, a huge benefit of working with a company like DevNet is we do all of that follow up. So when you submit a claim through our system, we're responsible for it all the way through the process.So we are the ones on the phone with the insurance companies arguing these approved prs or these denials and things like that. So I would say the first initial obstacle is just understanding the I. Knowing which plans pay what and why. And then I think the forever frustration is that we're just dealing with insurance companies and they are not in the industry of wanting to pay claims.Their goal is to slow down and reject claims as quickly as possible. Michael: Yeah, retain that money too. Crystal: Yeah, that's their job, right? So we're kinda going against, against a big force in that sense. The good thing is, is there's a lot of rules and regulations. Insurance companies cannot just choose not to pay. And so when we know all the proper paths to take and all the right words to say, and all of the right, you know, if you will, threats to make.They finally process our claims. So we do have some tools in our, our toolbox to help us make those go faster. But I would say to anyone who's getting into medical billing or is considering it just, just pre-prepared for the first few months to be exceptionally frustrating, these medical payers will not recognize you.They won't recognize your M P I and tax ID numbers. There's gonna be a slight delay. Usually if you can get past the first 90 days, if you can just stay with it. Be diligent. Follow our program. By the end of 90 days, you've pretty much got a system in place that's working. . Michael: so Dent is a program or is it like a software that I can utilize forever? Crystal: dent is an education and distribution company. So Dent stands for developing dentistry. We just are here to pri find solutions that help dentists improve their practices and improve patient care. So that's our mission, is to just provide tools and solutions for dentistry. One of the tools we provide is Imagine Software.So Imagine is a cloud-based software that handles these cross codings and handles all of this documentation. And behind that is a third party billing company. So we actually facilitate the entire billing process for our clients. Michael: Okay. Awesome. Awesome, crystal, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you? So Crystal: you can always find us@www.devnet.com. We've got some awesome resources, re recorded webinars, tutorials, demos, everything you could possibly want to see. We have some awesome programs going. You can check out our Facebook page and you'll see success stories and just a whole program we've got specifically to different types of dentistry.And then if you want to reach out directly, you can reach me@supportdevdent.com. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. And Crystal, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Thanks for having me.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍‍Guest: Avi PatelBusiness Name: Clear Aligner AdvisorCheck out Avi's Media:‍Instagram: @doctor.aviYoutube ChannelClear Aligner BootcampFREE Masterclass SignupDental Associateship Reflection Videos‍‍Other Mentions and Links:Converted - Neil HoyneNew York UniversityTrader Joe'sWhole FoodsInvisalignEnamel DentistrySlackVoices of Dentistry Conference‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:If you're taking on an associate, be sure to set clear expectations at the very beginning!Having systems in place to show what happens when, and how to do it, can take a lot of stress off of an associate.When treatment planning with a patient, always address their chief complaint and how the treatment will solve this.If you let your profession guide you entirely, you may not find as much fulfillment!Try investing in your education, automation, and systems, so that you can perform your job without all the headache.There are clinical-minded dentists and business-minded dentists. You may find that owning your own practice isn't for you if you favor only clinical work!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Avi, how's it going man?  Avi: It's going pretty good. How are you doing? Pretty good. If you don't mind me asking, where you located? I am in Austin, Texas.  Michael: Oh, nice. Home of Salt Lake  Avi: and, yeah.  Michael: Yep. I forgot the other donut plate. Round Rock donuts. But that's in  Avi: Round Rock, right? Yeah, Those are both great. Where where are you based out of?  Michael: Los Angeles. Okay. So, yeah. But my family's in, we, I grew up in Texas. We all live in Texas, but more like in the Houston area. Okay. Uh, but Nice. I know, like lately, how much has it blown up lately? Austin.  Avi: So I'm part of the, uh, the blow up, I guess, . Cause I, my wife and I came here about two years ago. Oh. Uh, and we came from New York, so Yeah. It's like California, New York, everyone, just met in Austin. But no, it's, uh, a lot of the, like a lot of my patients who have been here for a while, they all say like, it has changed completely. Like, we live downtown, in downtown. I call it like the millennials playground. You've just got, The ECUs restaurants, bars, like, whole Foods Trader Joe's. It's awesome. Yeah, . Nice dude.  Michael: Nice. Awesome. So then Avi, tell us a little bit about your past, present. How did you get to where you are today? Avi: Yeah, so I grew up in Florida. And went to dental school up at nyu and after I graduated, I didn't do a residency, I just went straight to practice. I wanted to get a sense of what real life dentistry looked like, and so I jumped in and at that point I was practicing in Connecticut as an associate. and I got like a real heavy dose of reality Um, Basically I was in and out of Associateships every couple year or every couple months. And you know, at the time it was, it wasn't that great, but, you know, looking back, it, it kind of gave me an opportunity to see how multiple. Different office, like how multiple offices practice. And I learned very quickly that not everybody is not doing dentistry. From a practice, from a clinical side and a business side, the same. Everybody's doing it a little bit differently. Some people are better at certain things than others in terms of practice owners and how they're running it. I just had kind of like my learning cap on, so every opportunity I was just trying to absorb as much information as I could. Always trying to learn whether it's from the owner themselves, from other associates, right from. Office managers to kind of see how like, the front works and stuff like that. And, it was good, but it was nothing like I had imagined. I thought that I was gonna come outta school. you know, I thought I was gonna find a mentor, they take me under their wing, they teach me, show me all the ropes. And then, after a year or two, I would be this like all-star dentist. But I, it was a lot more of like balls in my. and I had to make the most of every situation that I was in. Mm-hmm. . And so that's what I did. And so I was doing that. And then you fast forward a couple years was in two private offices and then the pandemic hit. And so at that point I was already starting to burn out on dentistry because of the procedures that I was doing were your basic kind of crown filling, just very bread and butter dentistry and. I mean, I was two years outta school and during the pandemic I was just kind of like, this is not good . Cause I had just got, just got going and I had $500,000 of student debt. And, uh, I wasn't, wasn't too thrilled about what I was doing. So then I kind of just started to look around and, and see what I could do. And that's where I. Started to just invest in education, invested in education, invested in myself, learned how to do, uh, implants, and then I dove into Invisalign cuz I was already certified, because I went to nyu. And for me it was more just like I wanted to find something that would just kind of get me excited again, uh, to do, to do dentistry. So, Pandemic's happening. And then uh, go back to work. and then the office owner actually I told them, Hey, I took these courses, would love to implement them. And uh, the owner actually told me that they didn't want me to implement aligners cuz they didn't think it was profitable. we had like a proper meeting and stuff about it, but that was the gist of it and that kind of surprised me because everyone that I had talked to about had said good things about aligners and at that point I had worked at like 10 offices. in the Connecticut area. And so my wife and I decided to move and relocate. We heard great things about dentistry in Texas. Uh, we loved Austin. So we came here and I actually joined A D S O, so they were a smaller D S O and um, they were fully supportive of me doing whatever I wanted, procedure-wise. Mm-hmm. , so. They had an iTero, they had an implant system and they were basically just like, you know, go crazy with this thing. So that's what I did and I tove in, uh, I started placing implants. When you first place implants, it's all about like case selection and, it's definitely, I mean obviously a surgery, so you're not doing crazy stuff to start and you just kind of are building your confidence and stuff that I did and that was nice. It's like an adrenaline rush when you're doing implants, and I loved it. and then I also started doing aligners and I started like 50 cases in my first six months. And so, that's like 250 grand in revenue given that each case is, $5,000. So that was like eye-opening for me because it's almost like a, a switch flipped in terms of Feeling more passionate about what I was doing, like I was actually making a difference. Providing a procedure to patients that is changing their lives, it's improving their oral health. you know, It's night and day from when they finish treatment to when they start. And then I also got more time and freedom, in my life because I got, align. It's not like a very like labor intensive procedure. It's a lot more of educating the patient, selling the case, and then setting up the case on a computer. , then assistant places the attachments on and you kind of essentially just like cheer the patient on throughout treatment and make sure they're motivated and, and wear the aligners. And then when you're done, you just polish the composite off and get 'em into retainers. And so that was awesome because now I was making more money. I had more time, and I just felt very aligned with what I was doing. So I took that feeling. And I wanted to share that. So I was working with another dentist. He had about 20 years of experience. Practiced as an owner before, and then him and his wife moved from California and then I started just showing him how to do aligners. And he also started to feel the same thing. And he was, he started doing like 10, 10 or 12 cases a month. And he, he basically said that, uh, he wished he'd started doing it earlier because it completely changed the way that he practiced. I also helped out some of the other doctors in the, in the organization, but then I went to leader. and I told them, Hey, I would love to just have like a, a legitimate role in the company where I could just be like this in-house, call it director of, you know, of aligners and just like coach up all the doctors cuz they had about 35 doctors in their D S O. And they liked the idea of it, but it just wasn't. Aligning with kind of what they wanted to do, and they just wanted me to focus on doing the dentistry in the practice. So at that point I was pretty bummed. And then my wife told me, she was just like, you pretty much know what you're doing in terms of coaching and teaching. She's like, why don't you just start a consulting company and consult with that test? So, I started doing that, I created a consulting company last year at the beginning of the year, and I started working with some docs and um, one of the docs I worked with, they had zero experience doing aligners. They're a practice owner. And they understood the value of having aligners in their practice and they wanted to do it. And so I worked with him and then he basically went from zero cases to 25 cases in his first two months. And then he's been able to kind of carry out At least like 10 cases a month ever since. Because with aligners, once you know how to do it, once you, once you start doing it, you don't stop. It's like a dentist that places implants. They don't stop placing implants. Like once they learn it, it just becomes part of what they do and they continue to do that. So that was awesome. And then, Then the consulting thing got a little crazy because man, like working full-time and trying to schedule time with other doctors full-time as well was tough. And then I stumbled upon this concept of like creating an online course mm-hmm. To, you know, make it real scalable to, to be able to reach and help more doctors, but then also not have to spend so much like time with the scheduling and all that. So, Fast forward, to middle of last, uh, middle of last year. Yeah. And I created a uh, online training program for dentists. So it's brand agnostic. It is for meant for general dentists looking to start implementing aligners. They can have either zero experience or just a little bit of experience and. They can basically watch these modules. I've created about four hours of content and it helps coach them through everything, from what cases to select, how to talk about it, how to set it up pretty much like A to Z, what you need to know to get started. And then I also include monthly, coaching in the program where, , they have an opportunity once a month to meet with me. We can discuss, cases, any questions they have, all that kind of stuff. And it's been awesome because it's really started to take off and grow and it's allowed me to cut back on my clinical days, and I've been able to now focus on this, this online business essentially, that I've created. But it's, uh, it's pretty cool. you know, I may not be seeing as many patients as I used to, but by teaching other dentists how to do this procedure, I kind of get like a little piece of being able to help, a bunch of patients all over the world. And it's, uh, it's a feeling that I didn't know existed. Cuz if you would've told me two years ago, like, Hey, you're gonna create a training program and you're gonna love the way that it feels to help and teach, I would've been like, you're crazy. Like, why would I do that? Like, I'm just. I, I, I just, I think growing up I never actually understood, what it meant to like be an educator and then now being on the other side of it, it feels awesome. So, yeah. And then, the other thing I think is kind of how we connected was through social media. I started just putting out clear aligner content. On to my Instagram page. Uh, I even have a YouTube channel now. And just trying to get as much information out there to other doctors as possible and then help 'em wherever I can. Nice  Michael: man. Okay, so real quick, let's rewind a little bit, right? you mentioned that you were already burning out in dentistry because of the procedure that you were doing. What were those procedure.  Avi: Fillings, crowns, extractions, some root canals. I didn't really go crazy with root canals, but yeah, that's pretty much it. Michael: Those were the ones where you're like, I don't wanna do this ever again. Yeah,  Avi: yeah. It's like you do it and then it's like, it looks good on the x-ray and then comes back, and then it's, it's just, I don't know. I, I, I have slowly come around to them, so I will do them here and there, but, . Yeah. Like a lot of dentists out there, I was just like, I would rather let the specialists do this procedure. Michael: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay, so then you dove into Invisalign or Clearliners, right? Invisalign and then implants. And then you joined A D S O. who's D S O? Did you join  Avi: Yeah. So they were smaller. They were called what was it called? I remember the office name. The office name was Rose. and then they ended up selling to a bigger one.  gotcha. Yeah. Are you still with them? No. No. So I am now at um, a smaller group practice yeah, they're called Enamel Dentistry. That's where I'm at now. Oh, enamel  Michael: Dentistry. I may know. I don't know. So then when it comes to right now, you worked at how many as an associate? what are some things you can take away? Like what are some things that you wanna tell, like practice owners, like, Hey man, y'all need to chill out with this. And then like, Hey, do more of that. Less of th Yeah. What are some things you learned?  Avi: Yes. It's funny you say that. I literally have an entire playlist on YouTube with like my reflection from every job. So definitely they can check that out. But no, it's, uh, I think the biggest thing is like above all, like, remember that your associate is also a doctor and they're also a person. And I say that because, when you treat a colleague like a person, you're gonna treat 'em a little bit differently than you would if they're just someone that you don't really care about. And I'm not saying like, you know, you need to get all emotional and affectionate and whatnot, but like little things like be a professional. if you're gonna let somebody go, don't text. them. They did that to you. Yep. Uh, if you're gonna let someone go, don't, don't give 'em a phone call. T talk to 'em, tell 'em face to face and let them know why you're doing it with, you know, with the notice and honor it. Like, just be a professional. and, and the other thing too is like if you actually. understand your business, which I believe a lot of practice owners don't. If you actually understand your business, you should be able to set goals from the beginning when you bring on an associate and have expectations so that way the associate understands what's expected of them. Because if you don't tell me what you, what you really need out of an associate or what you're hoping to achieve, I can't help you. And so then you fast forward three, six months a year later, and now the owner. Internally has an expectation of their associate. And the associate may not be living up to it, but if that was never communicated, then know, nobody's gonna win there. If you are hiring an associate to just do all of your fillings, be straight up about it. just say, Hey, I am doing a lot of surgery. I'm looking for a dentist who is willing to do all the basic restorative in the practice. I think dentists are afraid of losing candidates because if they say that, that may scare some people off. But guess what? There are so many associates out there that would love to go to a practice and only do restorative. So I think they need to know what they want first and then communicate that. And then I think you're gonna have less turnover because when everybody knows what's going on, then the partnership is, much more likely to last longer. those are a couple things. What else? I really, I, I really love it when practices have systems and like really good systems and like, literally like order of functions, just kind of like, Hey, This is how, you know this is how the staff operates. Like these, this is how we set up. This is like the handoffs. It's not whenever, it's like too much freedom. I take, what I've learned is like if there's too much freedom in a practice, then there is no system, right? Because now you're relying on the associate to kind of piece everything together. And that's frustrating because when you're an associate, I do think you need to, like, they should be allowed to have autonomy, but they should be able to have autonomy in the system that's already created. Otherwise your business is not efficient. Ah,  Michael: that's smart dude. That's smart. Yeah. Cuz I feel like um, that happens quite often. You just feel so overwhelmed and you're like, look, I got extra cash coming in. I know I need an associate. Or maybe now or eventually, Hey, do this man just, just help me. Right? You just kind of say that, like, just help me with the load. But in reality, , I guess you never really, like you said, dove into like your business and being like, what do I really wanna do? Not wanna do you think it's cuz they don't have time. Avi: So I think what it is, it's this whole thing where, and this is my theory, is I think a lot of dentists who are practice owners, rewind. You have to go all the way back to like when they graduated dental school. And then I think what happens is they go through associateships. a lot of dentists come out. Some definitely want to be owners from the get-go. those are the ones who have the best practices and systems because they are entrepreneurs and business owners, and they just went to dental school to have a dental degree and then like, there's two different types. And so you've got your, your business minded dentist and you've your clinical dentist. And what happens is the business minded dentist dominated in terms of being a practice. and those are the ones who have like, a bunch of practices as well, or maybe just a couple well oiled machines. Then you've got your clinical guys who go out and what happens is they go and they go to a couple of these associateships and then they get burned by some owners, Things like the owner will take procedures off of the associate's schedule and like really fill. Their own schedule before they fill the associates. So that's another little takeaway is owners, if you hire an associate, leave treatment on their schedule because you make 70% of what they do. So fill their schedule before you fill your own and everybody wins because you'll have a happy associate that's busy and you're literally gonna make 70% off of what that associate does, and you don't have to do anything. that's another like mindset thing. But going back to. What happens is they go out, they'll have maybe a couple associateships, they'll get burned, and then they'll get frustrated and they'll be like, okay, screw this. I'm just gonna go open my own practice. And they have zero business, business education. And then they go and they become a small business owner overnight because the bank just hands out money and then they open up a practice and then they don't know what the heck they're doing. And all they really wanted to do was, they just wanted a place where they. Practice dentistry in like a, and just focus on that, right? Like if you talk to, I'm sure you talked to a lot of dentists and a lot of 'em just want, I just wanna do the dentistry, right? Mm-hmm. , and, and so they, their only solution in their mind is to go open their own thing. But then now you've just like opened the door to an entirely new career, and you're not even, you don't even have your feet grounded in the one career that you have as a dentist. And so now it's just like you, you're terrible at being a business owner. And then what happens is that cycle just. , it just keeps perpetuating. Cuz now they're the business owner and the doctor that's an owner. And then they hire an associate and then they traumatize that associate because they don't really know what they wanna do, being the owner. And it's just, it's bad. Again, this is not everybody, and this is not every practice I've worked in. It's just what I've seen and what I've heard from, you know, from colleagues and it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's like a vicious, it's very vicious. No, a  Michael: thousand percent, man, I, I hear that all the time. When. , you know, like I just wanted to do it on my own terms, my own dentistry, you know, I didn't want people to tell me what to do, buy my own technology or whatever kind of thing. And then, you know, now they're, they're stuck with that only option. Mm-hmm. , well, I guess in the community that they're in, what would that be? On the only option if they're like shopping around associate, associate, associate and then you're like, there's no, there's no other place I have to do this. That kinda the only option. Avi: it could be. But my thing is also is I think you could kind of get creative with it, again, there's no such thing as like a magical associateship, but I do think with even just the rise of DSOs and just opportunities out there, I think if you know, as a clinician what you want out of a practice, and you can put your ego. Because a lot of these, a lot of dentists want to be like the person in control, But like, with great power comes great responsibility and a lot of 'em can't handle it, right? Mm-hmm. . So it's just like, maybe check your ego at the door. If you just want to be like a, a clinician, then you can find a place where you can have a role, like a specified role to do that. Like they exist. I know they do. I've seen it. and that's why you have some associates who love their job. . they're hyper focused on what they do, and they're really good at it, and they've just found a home. And they're not the owner, right. Or they're not the, the, the number one top dog. But they're okay with it. Yeah.  Michael: Do do you think you'll ever start your own practice or No. ,  Avi: uh, I don't know. I think I'm gonna start like a movement or something. , before I started practice . I'm looking to make, yeah, I'm, I'm looking to make an impact, I think right now. Yeah. My focus is definitely the, the aligner training program. and then, uh, yeah, I, I just, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not crazy about practice ownership. I've. , think I could do it. I just don't have an interest in it right now. Gotcha.  Michael: Okay. Gotcha. One little bit, you said you were let go through text, right? You were let go through a phone. Why do you think you were let go? Avi: So the reason why I was let go through text is because that owner, so that practice, the agreement was that I would be part-time and I was originally, he wanted me to work every Saturday. and I was like, dude, you're crazy. I was like, I one, why are you open every Saturday? And then two, I was, this was the first time I ever heard about it. I was like, dude, I can't work every Saturday. So I was just like, I just need like a couple days. And then, so I was working like two days during the week and then we agreed to like every other Saturday. and it was actually kind of messed up because I was doing it and then this is like right around when I, uh, took that implant course and I gave him a heads up. I was like, Hey, I'm gonna take an implant course. Is it cool if I. You know this, it's gonna be a couple Saturdays, so I'm not gonna be able to make some of those. But then when I come back, I would love to implement the procedure. And so he was fully set up for implants and he was like, yeah, absolutely. He, he's like, you should always invest in yourself. He's like, the more you can do the better. And I'm like, sick, this is gonna be awesome. And I did it. I got the, I was doing the implant course and I'm on my, like last day, like the second to last day of this course. and then I got the text from him and he was just like, Hey, we're gonna let you go. you haven't been working as many days as you originally did, and so we just really need Saturday coverage. Mind you, I've been there for almost a year, so I was just like, I told you that I was gonna do this, and then, and then no response Can that even happen? it Ha, it happened .  Michael: I'm like, it happened, man. Dude, that's crazy.  Avi: I got the text, I looked at my wife and then I was like, I guess I'm fired. And she's just like, what? And then I was just like, yeah, like, and I showed it and then never heard from him again. Man.  Michael: How long did it take you to find another associate after that? Avi: So after that one I was like dropped on a. . And then I started looking in Austin. So then that's when I just started cold calling offices in Austin. I called like 30 practices. and get this, like, nobody works on Fridays in Austin. , like every practice I called, they were like four days a week, like Monday through Thursday. And I'm like, damn, that sounds good. And like, everybody's like enjoying themselves. But no, I, uh, I tapped into my network and then I connected with this Dsso within like, it took me a couple weeks. It took me like two to three weeks to really kind of, to find it. But um, yeah. Okay. Michael: Yeah. That's good, man. That's good. All right, so then let's talk about that aligners. I know you have like, you know, you do the consulting chorus as well, right? let's open up like Pandora's Box a little bit. Teachers right now, if you can, from someone going from zero cases where they're like, I would love to do more align. How can we reach to 25? Like what are the instructions and steps that we need to get to?  Avi: Okay. So in a nutshell, you have to simplify it, right? So the biggest thing is like, you cannot a lot of these dentists, these general dentists that you see doing a lot of cases , they're doing it not because they're taking on every ortho case that walks through the door, but they have over time taken on these simple, straightforward cases, gotten good results, and they've gotten confidence to then continue to do them first thing is you gotta talk about it, start talking about it with your patients. So once you know the cases that you can treat, which are basically cases that I refer, I'll just say it, I refer class three cases, bilateral posterior cross bytes. Deep by cases greater than four millimeters. and teenagers, Those are all the cases that I refer to the orthodontist. Off the bat. I have a conversation with the patient about their issues and then I refer it. So then that way they're more likely to see the specialist and get the treatment that they need. Everybody else is pretty much fair game, so I then have a conversation in, the hygiene exam. and they show the patients, we have a scanner. You definitely need a scanner. If you wanna do aligners, have to have to have to. And I show them their scan. I educate the patient. I talk about oral health. I do not talk about cosmetics. Mm-hmm. . And then I I believe in the treatment. And so when I believe in something, and as any dentist, if a dentist believes in it and they talk to their patient from a place of belief that it's going to improve that patient's oral health and life in some way, the patients are way more likely to accept it. it's that simple. it can be scary because it's something new. But it's that simple and that's how you start. And then um, and then I would say get a mentor, right? And, and cuz that's what I did. I, I pretty much did it. And I got a mentor, Dr. Christina Blocker. She helped me out early on, like setting up cases. sure not every case was perfect off when I first started. Uh, I definitely made some mistakes. Everybody does when they start something new. but you have to just have the confidence to continue to push forward because, you know, with ortho it, there's gonna be patterns. And so when you take on a certain number or certain types of cases, you're gonna see certain patterns it, it's honestly easier than doing a composite class two filling. and it's a lot of fun. I like it because you get to, you get to see a patient's. Entire mouth transformed. most of my patients that come out that were bought in for the oral health aspect and they complied, they come back and they're just like, doc, I actually floss my teeth now. And I was like, oh, wow. And then they're like, I love it. They're like, I can't not floss my teeth. Because they're like, I can feel it. They're like, I feel the difference. And so that's why I love, that's another reason why I love aligners is because it's like this daily, it's this daily kind of like accountability. , You take them out when you eat, when you're done eating, if you don't brush and floss and you pop them back in, all the food between your teeth, you're gonna feel it, right? Yeah. So patients will, they'll take out their liner, their brush, they'll floss, they'll put it in. So you got patients that are flossing and brushing like four or five times a day for eight months, and then when they're done, you're just like, Hey, you only have to brush twice and floss once. And they're just like, , it's, that's so easy. And so it's like this habit that gets built and it's just like a beautiful, like comprehensive way to just treat your patients.  Michael: What are some, I guess, mistakes you've seen along the road where that maybe like some of your clients or people have been making where you're like, no wonder, no wonder you haven't reached or passed this threshold or breaking point or,  Avi: Uh, I think it's lack of education. I just think a lot of dentists are doing it, not really knowing what's going on. Honestly, because it's like what happens is, and I blame the aligner companies for this, is they make it seem as though it's as easy as scan the patient, upload the records. , they'll give you like a, a simulation and then you just hit accept and you get it. Like, that's what I thought when I first started. And there's, I bet there's a bunch of guts listening right now that are shaking their heads, and agreeing, or they're, some of 'em probably just like, wait, that's not what you're supposed to do. No, that's not what you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to accept that first treatment plan. You have to make modifications, but you're not gonna know what modifications to do. , you know, you've been taught. So that is something that really helped my confidence and accelerated, my ability to do cases is because I kind of knew the guardrails, right? I knew, I was just like, look, I just don't wanna cause any harm to this patient and I wanna improve the current situation. How do I do that? And so it was by knowing what to do and what not to do, and. . after you do them. Like I said, you find the patterns, you get more comfortable with it. But the biggest thing is, yeah, as people accept the first treatment plan and they, they don't know that you're not supposed to do that. Michael: So then I guess, how do you, how do you go from there? You don't accept the first treatment plan. You're like, okay, I'm gonna continue to make, where's the guardrails? Yeah, where's the guard?  Avi: Yeah. So for those, you always focus on the chief complaint. Basically what are you trying to solve, right? Like, are you trying to just fix the crowding on the bottom? Are you trying to close spaces? Are you trying to, you know, the patient doesn't like the way their teeth stick, like flare out and they wanna bring that in. So it's all case dependent. But then once you know that, then you need to just, make sure you're making the movements. that are going to achieve that result. And you're eliminating the movements that are not going to help that, cuz that's what happens is essentially what happens is you submit a case and an algorithm kicks back to you. The result and the algorithms programmed in a very general sense. You as a dentist have to make the modifications to personalize it and customize it for your case. basically to answer your questions like, okay, so we're, that's literally why I created my program because there really, unless you have like another doctor helping you out, like there's not really that many, things out there resource wise that are accessible for dentists. There are some like in-person courses like Dr. Galler, uh, hi, his course is, , you know, but it's an in-person course and there's a wait list. So I, I think it's, money well spent to take his course. But you also need to know the basics before you go diving into that because, um, you can go there and, and, and learn all that, but if you, you don't know how to like, have the conversation and implement it, right. You're gonna struggle. So yeah, it, it's crazy like this, the world of aligners, it's, it's starting to take over. , I think it's already made its way into obviously the dental industry. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, But at this point dentists have to have to skill up and invest in learning how to do this and bring it into their practice. And there's so many different resources out there. And there's gonna be even more in the future, I believe.  Michael: Okay, man. Nice. So then production wise, how much can someone expect collections and productions to, for example, let's go with that case study from zero to 20.  Avi: so each case is, I believe they were charging like 48, 75. just for the treatment. And then I think they charge like 700 bucks for the retainers. So that's like 55, 75, I mean, it's around $250,000, right? No, 25 times five. No, that was like a hundred and something. . No.  Michael: still? No, I mean, like, that's a, huge amount, you know? and how much is like your, your course or your consulting? Avi: So yeah, so right now I'm not doing the consulting, I'm just doing the course right now. My course is a thousand bucks. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's in intro pricing. Definitely gonna be raising the cost. But it's a thousand bucks. You. Like I said, all the modules to learn how to do this, you get the cheat sheets scripts for the team, teaches everybody what to say. I go over some like insurance stuff, like people are always kind of confused on how to bill for it. I, I cover that. And then I also do a year of training, right, the year of monthly coaching. So let's say you take the course and then six months later you're like, oh, like I have a bunch of cases. I dunno what to do. You can hop on the monthly call and then I can help you out. So that's my way of. being able to do like a group coaching type situation. But yeah, I tell doctors, I was just like, if you're serious about doing aligners, take my course. You will definitely start at least one case after, uh, and that you've already made your money back plus some. Michael: Yeah. Okay. Nice man. I like that. So then, right now, what do you think a dentist can do today to improve their.  Avi: A dentist they can do to improve their business. I think they can invest in systems to help automate as much of their business as possible. Cuz what that's gonna do is that's gonna lead to less stress for them. Cuz when things are systemized and automated and there's protocols, it just has a trickle down effect and it just will oh, bring them a lot more peace. , And then they should also invest in education. Because the more procedures that you can offer, You know, The more services right, your, your, your patients are able to kind of take, take up and do. So whether it's aligners, whether it's implants, whether it's Botox go learn this stuff. And I think the more the experience, dentists kind of know this, but the, the ones who may be younger or just may not have been thinking about it as much. You, uh, you went to dental school to learn how to not hurt people. And after that is where you actually learn different skills and procedures and techniques and you can learn it from people who have done it and you know who, who it's worked for them, it's worked for others. So, yeah, those are the two biggest things that I would say they could do to improve their business. Michael: Nice man. Okay. Okay. Awesome man. So then if we wanted to reach out to you, where can we.  Avi: Uh, easiest place would be Instagram. Uh, my handle is Dr. Avie and Doctor is spelled out. I also have the YouTube channel, but yeah, if you wanna reach out to me, just shoot me a DM on Instagram. easiest way. Okay. And what's next for you? Michael: Do you plan to do lectures, like workshops or how does that, like, or do you, I mean, you already said you didn't wanna own your own practice,  Avi: but like yeah. So yeah. So right now, right, I, I've got this online training program. I think what's next is growing that as big as I can, trying to make as big of an impact. And then after that, I really want to try to find a way to help dentists out, uh, on the mental health side. The, the depression, the stress, the suicides, all that stuff, because I've seen it, like I've been in that dark hole of dentistry that a lot of dentists have either been in and gotten outta or are still stuck in. I don't have like a real stat, but I would, I would say about 70 to 80% of dentists have felt some form of depression just because of the realities that, that we face as being dentists, especially when you're early on and, I wanna be able to, to create something and, and, and help people help other dentists rather, either work through it or. Or, or completely avoid it if possible. So that'll take me time. But yeah, that's, that's next. That's where like a deep passion of mine is.  Michael: where were you when that happened to you? Like what, why was that happening to you?  Avi: So this was like, uh, like right before the pandemic, and it was just because I was in and outta so many jobs. I was in and outta so many jobs and I couldn't, I couldn't hold an associateship for like three to four months. Right. I had like, I was burning out on, on the procedures and I was just kind of like, did I make a mistake becoming a dentist? Like this sucks. Like, I thought this was because for me, like my uncle's a dentist and I actually wanted to be a dentist because of him, because I saw the life that he was living, like he was able to like help his patients. You know, His patients loved him. He was able to just good do good work. He worked great hours, great family. He was able to golf. He was, he was living a very, like, good and comfortable life. And then I became a dentist and I was like, oh, can't wait for that to happen. And then it's just like, , I started looking at the realities. I'm like, okay, so $500,000 in debt. making like 125 grand a year. Uh, like I'm in and out. Like I, I'm doing shit that I don't even like, like I was just like, where is this fun? Like when, like when does this get fun? ? Yeah. So, yeah. And that's when I, I just like invested in myself, right? And I was like, okay, I need to learn something. I need to do something. Cause if I just let the profession guide me, the profession was, was not going to help me. The only person who's gonna help you is yourself. And then ever since then, I had like a mindset switch. And now I've just been following my passions and, you know, it's been like a progressive thing, right? . The first passion was the procedure, Was aligners, and then the next passion was teaching, which is now, which was then the consulting, which is, you know, has now morphed into the online course. And so that's kind of what I'm doing. Like I'm just, at this point, I'm like, if I just follow the passion. I will be happier and I will be in a better place than where I was previously. And I think a lot of dentists have to wall off their passions or they feel like they have to wall off their passions. Because the only other examples really that they have out there in terms of like what other dentists are doing is this whole model of like, okay, I. Graduate dental school being associate, okay, now I need to get my own practice. Okay, now I need to get five practices. Okay, now I need, you know what I mean? And it's like mm-hmm. , there's other ways to do this. You just have to pause, out what lights you up and what makes you want. , to get up every day excited. Some people it's, it is running multiple opposites. Some people love that. Mm-hmm. , some people love, just wanna do insane, crazy, cool surgery. Some people just want to kind of like coast and chill. Some people want to be entrepreneurs and, have a side hustle and create something outside of dentistry completely. I think it's all possible. I think we have to stop lying to ourselves and, and stop telling ourselves that, there's only one way to be successful as a dentist. Because it's just not true. Yeah.  Michael: I think that's where sometimes the depression can come in, right? Where you kind of mm-hmm. because you hear a bunch of things of it. You hear like follow your passion. Then you hear people like, nah, follow the work. Right? Like what? Make it work. And then another thing, no, follow your talents, right? Then everything else will fall into play. So you're like kind of picking and choosing the, the road you. You think you're good at something, but then you find out 80 billion other people are better at it. And you're like, well, that's not my talent. Oops. So should I have gone the other way? And it gets confusing, man. It gets confusing.  Avi: And then it gets lonely too. Like dentistry's lonely. Like a lot of dentists are practicing by themselves, you know, sometimes they do get to practice with another dentist or such. So it's that's the other thing is like for me, Yeah, it got lonely too. Like I didn't, all my friends, like I went to NYU and all my friends, like, pretty much, we all graduated and scattered. A lot of them went back to California. Some were in Canada, some were, they, they went up to like Massachusetts and stuff like that, and, and it's just like it's very easy to get disconnected, from your peers. And so that's why it's super cool when I see these other communities out there for, for dentists. Um, It's awesome and I'm actually pumped cause I'm going to a conference tomorrow, voices of Dentistry and I'm excited to just meet other dentists, just meet 'em and see what's going on and, and so that's the other aspect of my program. is, uh, I have like a Slack community as well, and it's just a, another space for like-minded dentists to just kind of like be together and, and connect with each other. And so I'm hoping that also continues to grow and, kind of how these other communities have, like their meetups and conferences and stuff. So, we'll, we'll see how that takes shape, but I think more than anything, like if you're a dentist out there, , if you're feeling lonely, you just need someone to talk to. Like, you can hit me up. We don't, we don't have to talk about aligners or growing your business like we could. We could just, we could just, you know, we could just talk. Uh, it's always cool meeting people because I feel like a lot of us are, are going through or have gone through like similar things. sometimes just Feels good to know that you're not the only person that's experienced it. And then kinda just hearing ways to kinda combat your situation. Yeah.  Michael: Kind of sounds like you fell in love with. or you really enjoy doing a procedure right now, but you're more in love with the mental health aspect. You know what I mean? Of like, we really gotta get this thing to blossom somehow, but right now what I need, you know what I mean, to, for my mental health is the, uh, director of liners or that thing, you know what I mean?  Avi: Correct, correct. Yeah. No, and that's the thing is I think it's a stepping stone, right? It, I think it's, uh, something of value that will generate. You know, You, you're gonna have happier patients. The doctors make more money after they take the course, obviously. Like I get to make some money off of it too. But it's a step, it's like a a means to, yeah. To this greater, this greater thing. I could get on stage and start motivating people, but like, who the heck is this guy? , you have to kinda establish yourself first. And that's what I'm doing. I'm just in the process of, doing that. But by the way, I'm the director of aligners that that didn't work out. That's what I was hoping would, would be a thing at that dsl. But yeah, right now I'm, I'm just kind of building my own. I'm just calling you  Michael: that right now is the Hey, he line . You know what I mean? Like of his own thing, you know what I mean? That's cool. Awesome. Avi, man, I appreciate your time and real quick again, let people know where they can find you.  Avi: Yeah, on Instagram my handle is Dr. Avi.  Michael: Awesome guys. So that's gonna be in the show notes below along with everything else that was mentioned. And Avi, thank you so much for being with us. It was a pleasure. And we'll hear from you soon. Awesome.  Avi: Thanks for having me.

‍In this episode, Susan Laine, from 180 Dental, gives us her three best tips for a smooth and easy billing process!‍Determine Your Business Type - You can register as a sole proprietor, s corp, or pc business. If you are planning on having associates, it may be beneficial to incorporate, rather than use your social security number for tax ID!Input Incoming Associate Data - If you have an incoming associate, getting their tax and credentialing information in your practice management software as soon as possible will offer the smoothest transition!Inactivate Old Providers - This can be a handy way to transition practice ownership in software such as Dentrix, Eaglesoft, or Open Dental. Inactivating the old provider when bringing in the new provider, allows them to pick up where you left off in a seamless schedule transfer!‍Listen in on Michael and Susan's conversation to get more in depth on these three topics and more!‍You can reach out to Susan Laine here:Instagram: @180dentalFacebook180 Dental Website‍Other Mentions and Links:DentrixEaglesoftOpen DentalSole ProprietorS CorpPC - Professional CorporationLori I OwensNPI - National Provider Identifier‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareSCHEDULE A FREE DEMO TODAY!Click the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors) Michael: Hey Suzanne. So talk to us about medical and dental billing. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with doing medical and dental billing?  Susan: I have some ideas, some suggestions. That is for any office. Mm-hmm. , you know, my company, we specialize in Dentrix, Dentrix. and my company goes in and we do a lot of transitions. So what I'd like to pinpoint today are three key things that will help a startup or somebody who is thinking about bringing in an associate to make sure that, one, they're getting paid. Two, the associate is getting paid and they can track their numbers. So, . The three things that I really wanna highlight, one is how you're setting up your company as a pc, an S corp, or just a sole proprietor. You know, as a new dentist comes in, they have a choice. Mm-hmm. , it is recommended and you know, I think Lori Owens and some of the other people out there would definitely agree. setting up your company, which is your dental practice as an S corp, has specific tax advantages, and it also gives you some long-term down the road advantages because if you set yourself up as a PC or an S corp, you're not using your social. as your tax identification number. You're also, able to set it up as a type two N P I, and that is very beneficial, right from the startup. But again, even if you're already in your practice, you've had your practice for a while, you're looking for an associate, if you set up your tax ID as having a type two m. , you can bill under that entity and then your provider can change. For instance, like if a female dentist needs to go on maternity leave and she has a locum tenants come in for six, eight weeks, they can bill under the tax ID for the corporation, the type two n p. With the new locum tenants provider, and there could be a contract in place for that specific timeframe. Hmm. And it doesn't need additional credentialing. It doesn't need W nine sent for each and every claim during that six to eight week period. Or you know, I had a, I had one of my clients who was an avid golfer, he ended up needing back surgery and was out for five and a half weeks and in a back brace. Mm-hmm. and came back very slow. So he had a contract for a locum tenants and it was still bill out under his type two. And it worked out very well. As long as you have your contracts in place to do it that way, there's a lot of legal. loopholes that you can use. But I do suggest that you always, and this is a startup or a, you know, an individual practice that's already going seek good legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, but there are really good people out there that can advise you in that is just a suggestion. you know, with that in mind, when you have somebody come in and you're paying them on either, collections or product, You wanna be sure that you are paying them what they should be paid. And in Dentrix well and Eaglesoft and Open Dental, you wanna set that person up before they ever enter your practice and see a patient. , for instance. Um, a transition. This is what my company does quite a bit in transitions, is when we know that there's negotiations, we will get the credentials of the incoming dentist, his N p I license, d e a. We set it up in Dentrix and we can build his schedule and build it up. months before he ever sets foot to see patients so that there is a smooth transition. Your schedule is full. You have, you know, no lag in production. Well, you're gonna have that here and there. The sooner you set up a new provider in your system, the better it is with scheduling, the easier it is to get them paid in a timely manner and know exactly. how they should be paid. Figuring out, you know, if they want, if they want 35% of collections, what is that per day? You wanna look at that backwards and do the calculations mathematically to make sure that you have the production on the schedule. The third point, I'm just gonna close with today. is, I wanna talk about, the process within inactivating old providers in Dentrix, which is where my love for software came from, is with Inactivating, that old provider, you can reactivate a provider after you move the patients over. I just did this again for another office. They purchased on 1231, brand new dentist came in. We set up the transitioning senior dentist as an associate, and we closed everything out and moved all the patients to the new purchasing doctor. We reactivated the seller as an associate, and now all of. Finances cuz he purchased the ar. Mm-hmm. are under the corporate, the schedule is under the new doctor. And this can be done in Eaglesoft, in Open Dental. It's just understanding the software, understanding how you wanna structure your business. So those three things are really gonna help out any dentist, whether you're a startup transitioning with a senior doctor that is moving out as retirement encroaches, or if you're bringing on a brand new a. you wanna look at those three key things to really help set yourself up for success. Gotcha. So  Michael: these three things, how do, I guess, how does that ease the process? Also with the billing part?  Susan: With billing, especially with the N P I. Mm-hmm. , you can credential your type two. , and again, when you have a locum tenants come in, it continues under that tax id, and you don't have that lag in claim processing as long as you have it set up so that you have it in writing and you have that temporary doctor coming in and everything is already on the claim for that provider. So, , it helps get you paid timely without having to delay and say, who's this? We don't understand who this person is. Mm-hmm. ,  Michael: what are some of the most common mistakes when it comes to utilizing Dentrix or, or, or doing this right here? When, when it comes to like the, the yang of the, uh, I guess like the three processes that you mentioned. Susan: I have had to go in and run audits on some offices that have utilized a sole proprietor's social security number when they have somebody come in temporarily and one, you're paying the taxes for all of that income. , that's a negative. You don't wanna have to pay self-employment taxes on all of that income. Two, the provider that does the service legally has to be on that claim. Mm-hmm. , you cannot legally do it any other way other than listing that provider. So I've had to go back through and audit for the insurance companies in the past, and it is, an infraction, and there are fines involved and it can be construed as fraud. Mm-hmm. , but I hate to say that word because it really scares people, .  Michael: No, it's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it can be construed. It's true. It can be construed as that. What else?  Susan: Yes. . So with setting things up in your system for the way Dentrix does it, you can also utilize block scheduling for multiple providers. and you can really help your office flow. And meet or exceed your goals consistently on a daily basis. So if you have your providers set up correctly, you can actually implement that into Dentrix on a daily basis, and you can go home at the end of the night and feel like you have really accomplished a good day and that you met your goal. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. The block scheduling I think works pretty, pretty real, really well. You know what I mean? When we know how to utilize that. This is really good. We want to understand how are you setting up your company right from the very GetGo, uh, L L C you said, right? S corp. What  Susan: was that one for? A pc?  Michael: Yes. Pc, yeah. What would you recommend when it comes to those three, the best? Depending on their goals.  Susan: Depending on their goals. if they never wanted to bring an associate, you can set it up as a sole proprietor. , I would advise talking to a C P A to see if there's probably a tax advantage for being an S-corp over all of that self-employment tax. So me, I suggest always going with an S-corp and then credentialing that S-corp. Now, credentialing and contracting are two different things. What's the differe? Credentialing is that background check that the insurance company does to say that you are a licensed dentist in the state that you are wanting to practice. That you have an active license that has no infractions against it, and that you are operating in the scope of that license. So that's the credentialing process. That's why you have to give them your malpractice insurance, a copy of your license, your photocopy of your id, your dea, e. All of that is credentialing and you can be fee for service. But you still have to credential so that you can get paid. They need that W nine with your tax id. They need to know that your tax ID matches your I R s confirmation that you're gonna pay taxes on the income, cuz they're gonna issue you a 10 99 from the insurance company based on that tax id. with. all of that information, I really think that you're gonna see the best results by being an S-corp.  Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So S-corp, if, if anything, right, like right now we're like, okay, we wanna have an associate, you know, we wanna do all these other things that you mentioned. We wanna have an S-corp have the associate in Dentrix as well, right? Yes. Whenever you start bringing them. And  Susan: then And market. Yay. Marketing. Yeah. Yeah.  Michael: And marketing. Inden.  Susan: yes, open dental, Eaglesoft. They all have the ability now to text, email, do campaigns. They can put it out on their website and do a blast. There are so many opportunities to get information out there now, of all the transitions that I've seen over the course of the last, you know, almost two decades that I've had my company. what has been detrimental is not informing people, not letting them know that there is a doctor that is retiring or that the office is selling. they get a feeling of betrayal a little bit. , they get their feelings hurt when there's not transparency there. So I, I'm a huge advocate for marketing the new incoming provider at any stage, you know, even, even if a doctor's, you know, going out for surgery or a doctor is going out from maternity leave. They wanna be included. Not just your staff, but your patients. They wanna feel a little bit of a connection.  Michael: Gotcha. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with that. Like you wanna, you know what I mean, like let them know you're part of the family kind of thing, you know, so. Exactly. Gotcha. Okay. So in a nutshell, these three steps and processes or methods help out specifically how with our, our medical and dental. Susan: getting you paid, you want paid, how are you gonna get paid? You wanna get paid fast, have things in place so that that happens. Mm-hmm. , these three things will help you get there.  Michael: Get paid. Gotcha. Get paid. Awesome. Awesome, Suzanne. Thank you. I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you  Susan: directly? My website is, 180 dental.net. I'm also on Instagram at 180 Dental and Facebook at 180 Dental. Awesome. So they can reach out to me on any social media platform and I primarily work with other dental referrals. I don't have a marketing campaign where I solicit.  Michael: that's good. Referrals is like the best way. You know what? It  Susan: really is. It is. I love, I love what I do and I love my clients. Nice. Wonderful. My team is very good at cleaning up Dentrix databases after a transition or before to get your numbers. So they're real. Yeah, they're trustworthy.  Michael: Gotcha. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. If you wanna reach out to Suzanne and Suzanne, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Thank  Susan: you. I appreciate it.‍