Podcast appearances and mentions of jane hardwicke collings

Over the last few weeks I have landed with a new question to start my days; when I wake up and emerge into the potent liminality of the early morning hour, I ask «Mother Earth, who do you need me to be today?» This question is inspired by one of my dearest teachers, Jane Hardwicke Collings who urges us to be the woman the earth needs.Lately Mother Earth keeps sending me this message: «I need you to soften», she says, «I need you to soften into your own experience, into the wholeness and rightness you are».And this message led me to (re)discover what I am sharing with you in today's episode - The art of softening as an incredibly profound portal to lean into the wild and poetic landscapes of the female body.And so today I invite you to join me to soften. Just a little.P.S: In case you don't know (yet), I am obsessed with the female body. I have dedicated my life to studying the body through dance, osteopathy, anatomy and embryology, as a practitioner, lecturer and researcher. I feel called to share this growing body of playful wisdom with you - I call it the wild and poetic landscapes of the female body. She guides us home to the creative power within, to the temple our body is, invites to plug in, come home to our root and awaken our into our lived experience and silent felt sensation.P.P.S.: During this episode I invite you to listen back to two earlier episodes, one about the wild and poetic anatomy of your heart, and one about your miraculous ovaries.Sign up to my newsletter, to be the first to receive an invitation for my upcoming free workshop, claim your seat here.Join the community and subscribe to my wildly poetic universe on Substack, I can't wait to have you join me!---The Soft Rebellion Podcast is created and hosted by Flurina Dominique Thali. I love hearing from you. To contact me, email ⁠softrebellion@flurinathali.com⁠.---Social media: Flurina Dominique Thali & The Soft Rebellion: ⁠@flurina.thali⁠Visit my webpage: www.flurinathali.comBOOK an in-person 1:1 sessions with me here.Credits:Intro/outro music – ‘Hymn for Jim' by ⁠Aspyrian⁠: Robin Porter – saxophone, Jack Gillen – guitar, Matt Parkinson – drums, composed by Robin Porter, listen to the full track ⁠here⁠. Graphic:Annina Thali, for more information click ⁠here⁠ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit flurinathali.substack.com

Judy Claughton is a dear friend of mine and the founder of her own business, BalanceTime. She teaches mindfulness meditation and also offers Reiki and Shamanic Healing. Based in Theale, Berkshire (UK), Judy is also a proud mum to a 14-year-old son.Please Note: We recorded this episode in January so Judy speaks a bit about events that have passed, but I felt it valuable to leave the information she shares around these celebrations and rituals.TRIGGER WARNING: At 49 minutes to 51 minutes 20 seconds Judy speaks about her birth experience which some may find upsetting. I then speak about her share, and give my perspective — for others who had a traumatic birth experience.At 1h 4m 18s to 1h 07m 15s we speak about miscarriage (also known as early pregnancy loss*).In this episode we speak about:a bit about Judy and her work the impact of subtle changes and the 1%learning from natureJudy's experience and what led her to where she ishow meditation unlocked somethingusing the Celtic wheelthe art of holding space (and silence)healing through shamanic practices, reiki and women's circlesthe weight and responsibility involved in parenting todaymatrescenceThemes: nature's cycles, parenting, dance, burnout, meditation, healing, trauma, matrescence, early pregnancy lossAt the end, I share a poem written by Becky Hemsley.You can find out more about Judy at balancetime.co.uk or here on Instagram.We mention Francis Weller, Mark Groves, and Jane Hardwicke-Collings*. Jane Hardwicke-Collings speaks beautifully about women and women being in their power and she speak about swapping miscarriage for early pregnancy loss because the former implies a fault with the mother.Did you enjoy this episode? If so, I would really appreciate it if you could please leave a review on the platform that you listen. For more insights and to contact me you can find me on Instagram, and at www.lucywyldecoaching.com.

During this episode, it was a real joy to dive into honouring the cycles of our bodies, mother earth and the phases of life we journey through. I chat with Earth Medicine Woman, Women's Health Advocate & Cyclical Guide Amanda Trieger about how these cycles can help us weave self care into daily rituals by being prepared and understanding what we need at different phases of our lives, our menstrual cycle and during each season. It was a bit of an epiphany for Amanda when she realised that tucking self care around the edges of her life wasn't going to be sustainable. She noticed dramatic shifts when her understanding of her menstrual cycle began to drive her self-care- allowing her to plan out a month of self-care rhythms. As a naturopath, doula, and mentor, Amanda guides women reclaim feminine frameworks and integrate the healing power of plant medicine into their cyclical self-care rituals. Her work supports hormonal wellbeing, vaginal microbiome health, vulva care, and raising awareness of the sacred Rites of Passage that shape a woman's journey. Through rituals, retreats, workshops, and women's circles, she empowers women to cultivate cycle awareness—honoring the rhythms of their menstrual, lunar, seasonal, and life cycles as they transition through the menstruality timeline.Amanda generously shares her knowledge on cyclical living during this episode and I hope you enjoy it as much as we did!**SHOW  NOTES**Amanda mentions Jane Hardwicke Collings and her School of Shamanic Womancraft and recommends Her Story.**CONNECT**AMANDA  holds space for women over a season, three months, or a full year, offering a deeply held container where they can explore, embody, and integrate this wisdom in a way that feels true to them. Within this growing community, she calls in those who are ready to deepen their connection to their cycles, reclaim their feminine wisdoms, and walk this journey alongside others who are rising together - elevateHER. You can join her free community here to access any free resources (including her Yoni steaming recipe) and stay up to date with upcoming events.  https://membersnaturopathicwomancraft.app.clientclub.net/communities/groups/cyclical-wisdom-collective-/home?invite=67ad7dbce8c3f919f997991fBook an alignment call here: https://alignment.naturopathicwomancraft.com.au/booking-pageOr find out more about Amanda and her offerings here:https://www.naturopathicwomancraft.com.au/You can connect with JESS via instagram and facebook here and here,  join her newsletter community here, buy her handmade herbal products here or book an appointment here.**BUY ME A CUPPA**If you liked the episode and want more, a cuppa fuels my work and time, which is given for free. Leave a comment and a few bucks here: https://buymeacoffee.com/theeldertree**THE ELDER TREE TROVE PATREON COMMUNITY**You can join our Patreon ⁠⁠here⁠⁠ and gain a deeper connection to our podcast. Pay only $2 per week to have access to bonus and often exclusive resources and opportunities- plus support the Elder tree at the same time! To find out more about The Elder Tree visit the website at ⁠www.theeldertree.org⁠ and donate to the crowdfunding campaign ⁠here⁠.You can also follow The Elder Tree on ⁠Facebook⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠sign up to the newsletter⁠.Find out more about this podcast and the presenters ⁠here⁠. Get in touch with The Elder Tree at:  ⁠asktheeldertree@gmail.com⁠The intro and outro song is "⁠Sing for the Earth⁠" and was kindly donated by Chad Wilkins.  You can find Chad's music ⁠here⁠ and ⁠here⁠.

In this powerful episode, we sit down with Jane Hardwicke Collings, a grandmother, former homebirth midwife, and internationally renowned teacher of women's mysteries. Jane's work spans decades, focusing on the sacred dimensions of menstruation, childbirth, and menopause, helping women reconnect with their bodies and reclaim their power.Having trained as a midwife in the hospital system, Jane had a profound awakening to the institutionalised abuse within maternity care. This led her on a lifelong mission to educate and empower women, founding The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international women's mystery school.Jane shares her personal experiences with birth, including her own VBAC journey, and the importance of surrender, trust, and deep inner work in preparing for birth and beyond. Jane's journey from hospital midwife to homebirth advocate. The importance of rites of passage and how they shape a woman's journey. Understanding and healing birth trauma through a shamanic lens. How modern maternity care fails women and what we can do to change it. The power of surrender in birth and how it transformed Jane's own experiences. Practical tools for women to connect with their intuition during pregnancy and birth.Jane's wisdom is raw, deep, and life-changing—this is a must-listen for anyone wanting to reclaim the power of physiological birth and dismantle the patriarchal narratives surrounding women's bodies.

My friend and wise woman Angela (Ange) Jessup joins me on the podcast today to speak about all things holistic kinesiology. Ange and I met on the Four Season's Journey with Jane Hardwicke Collings and The School of Shamanic Womancraft, and quickly bonded over all things babies (we both had newborns), yoga, and the multidimensional aspects of life!  Ange curates her kinesiology offerings to serve the specific needs of women, especially those in their mothering season, and more recently children, and she is a total sorceress - it was a delight to hear her speak about her work. Ange is also the mama of three little ones. In this episode: Ange explains kinesiology, emphasising its basis in Chinese medicine and 5-Element theory, how she works with the meridians and specific points, as well as muscle-testing and other multidimensional aspects of the work, such as how kinesiology is such a unqiue tool for addressing subconscious patterns, wounding and triggers How Ange works with children, both her own and in clinic, especially in terms of respecting the intution and knowing of the mother How kinesiology has assisted her on her own journey as a mother (and pre-conception - Ange was told she'd never have kids!) Ange's journey integrating and healing the wounded parts of herself so she can show up as a mother Ange shares her passion for addressing birth trauma and advocating for women's choices in the birth space. She recounts her personal experiences with birth and the importance of women being able to advocate for themselves. We also reflect on the systemic issues and societal expectations that affect women's experiences of birth and motherhood. How Ange balances motherhood and self-care, especially as someone serving other mothers How Ange approaches conscious parenting And so much more! I love this chat, it's so nourishing and Ange is definitely one inspiring mama! Grab a cuppa and get settled. And then book a session with Ange!   Social Media: https://www.instagram.com/angelajessup__/  Website: https://www.angelajessup.com/   Mentioned in this podcast: Parliamentary Inquiry Into Birth Trauma School of Shamanic Womancraft https://schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com/  Jane Hardwicke Collings https://janehardwickecollings.com/  Zoe Bosco https://www.zoebosco.com/  Drama Triangle https://karpmandramatriangle.com/   

There was a time, and not so long ago, that matriarchal -or Mother-centred societies were the norm, and within this system there was Goddess worship - known as The Triple Goddess. During these times, especially in modern Pagan traditions, the Triple Goddess was said to represent the cycle of a woman's life. Honouring the Maiden, Mother and Crone, and is often associated with Artemis - the Maiden, Selene - the Mother, and Hecate - the Crone. The Triple Goddess can also be represented by a full moon, waxing crescent moon and a waning crescent moon because the rhythm of the moon and the female body both typically work on a 28-day cycle.  The Maiden— represented by the waxing moon, is the symbol of girlhood, freedom of expression, purity and untamed wildness. It is the Springtime of our lives.  The Mother— around 25yo- is represented by the full moon and being the symbol of love, fertility, growth and caregiving. Mother, the Summer. The Crone—around 75yo, represented by the waning moon, the winter of our lives. She is the wise, more mature woman that embodies all of the women she has been before this phase.  So what happened to the period between 45 and 75 yo? Recently the gap was noticed by wise women Cedar Barstow and Jane Hardwicke Collings. They saw that Autumn was missing! The Autumn Queen ws missing. So why should we care about these phases in our lives anyway, and the Rites of passage that in yesteryear punctuated them. And what have been the obvious consequences of living without this reverence towards tradition in the modern patriarchal society we have lived in over the past few thousand years? Kamya is a women's rites of passage guide and mentor. She tends the thresholds of life's transitions by creating handmade transformative rites of passages for girls, women, mothers, and elders that acknowledge and celebrate the significant cycles and stages of our lives. www.kamyaokeeffe.com

What did you think?This week's episode is shared today by Bek. After researching and choosing private midwifery care in her first pregnancy for a planned hospital birth, Bek shares today about her 2 subsequent home births. It is a beautiful conversation about pregnancy, birth, continuity of care, challenges in pregnancy, and having children present during birth. I really liked Bek's reflection of feeling like she COULD birth alone, but then asking herself the question if she actually WANTED to birth alone.Resources: Fear Free Childbirth Podcast https://www.fearfreechildbirth.com/podcast/fear-free-childbirth-podcast/The Impact of Light in Labour https://www.melaniethemidwife.com/podcasts/the-great-birth-rebellion/episodes/214862592510 Moons by Jane Hardwicke Collings https://janehardwickecollings.com/product/ten-moons-the-inner-journey-of-pregnancy/Bek's husband 'Lloyd's' episode https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/birthing-at-home-a-podcast/id1705684880?i=1000636382306Learn more about me, my offers as a doula & the podcast here: https://www.birthingathome.com.auSupport the Show.

PTSTD or Postnatal Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder could in many situations be avoided if the mother had been heard. Instead we have too many women being diagnosed with PTSTD, stemming from a less than ideal birthing experience.  PTSTD is a type of anxiety disorder, also known as birth trauma, with symptoms including vivid flashbacks - feeling that the trauma is happening right now, not being able to show affection to your baby, feeling isolated and blaming yourself for what happened, and terror around the thought of going through labour again.  Not so long ago, birthing our children looked very different to how it does today - in a hospital, in some cases with a midwife - you're only just meeting for the first time, and a team of other professionals - strangers - coming and going, often taking the baby away from the mother soon after delivery. Never addressing the often hellish events that have just occurred.  Shhhhh new mum. Now go home and look great, have an abundant flow of milk, and do not complain about pain or sleeplessness, about potentially not bonding with your newborn, and make sure you're feeling and looking pretty goddamn sexy very soon as otherwise your partner may take a new lover. Oh my goodness, the pressure! The fear. Sequoila Glastonbury is co-mother of the Not For Profit Hygieia Health  - a charity she co-founded with 3 like-minded women focusing on preventing and healing birth trauma, by supporting gentle births. Their highest vision is to create a private birthing sanctuary open to the birth choices of all mothers, creating a system that supports not just mothers and their babies, but also their families and care providers. Sequoia holds the vision of the Healed Sisterhood. Over the past 14 years she has been a teacher at the School of Shamanic Womancraft, having apprenticed and co-taught with Jane Hardwicke Collings. Sequoia teaches the school's 4 Seasons Journey in Byron Bay and is the hearth keeper (or operations queen!) at the school. Sequoia Can be reached at School of Shamanic Womancraft. Click here for the Toxic Silence Playlist.

Meet one of my teachers Jane (https://www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings/) who's joining us for a special episode for our Pregnancy. Tune in as she shares how she was introduced to shamanism, what our red thread is, how to do shamanic healing during preconception and pregnancy, preparing for an orgasmic birth, and so much more. In This Episode: * Jane's background (04:02) * How Jane was introduced to shamanism (07:12) * How Jane views shamanic pregnancy (14:36) * What our red thread is (18:57) * Jane's recommendation for preconception shamanic healing (35:25) * How to prepare for an orgasmic birth (43:23) Get the full complete show notes, here: https://www.wellsome.com/podcast/ FREE LOVE YOUR CYCLE DOWNLOAD: https://www.subscribepage.com/love-your-cycle MENSTRUAL CYCLE MEMBERSHIP - WELL WOMAN ACADEMY: https://www.wellsome.com/academy/ LOVE YOUR CYCLE FB COMMUNITY: https://www.facebook.com/groups/loveyourcyclesisterhood/ INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/wellsome_jemalee/ WEBSITE: https://www.wellsome.com/ HELP US SPREAD OUR PODCAST WINGS This show is a passion project that I produce for the love of spreading menstrual cycle awareness for free. If you enjoy this show, help us reach more menstruators. The most effective way you can help is: 1. Subscribe to the show by clicking “subscribe” in iTunes 2. Write us a review in iTunes 3. Share this show with a friend, right now! 4. Screenshot and share via social media - don't forget to tag me @wellsome_jemalee Simple yes, but you'd be AMAZED at how much it helps this passion project reach more people. iTunes' algorithm uses ratings and review to know who to show our show to in their app. Review here on iTunes. In love & abundance! Jema

Today's guest on the Resonate Podcast is Jane Hardwicke Collings! It was such a privilege for us to have this conversation with her, especially since we have been following Jane's work for so many years. This is a must-listen for anyone who has daughters! Jane speaks on the importance of reclaiming our menstrual cycles in a culture that shames them and invites us to support our girls through their rites of passage. Jane shares her journey from being a nurse to training in midwifery and how her own births deepened her midwifery practice. Going "to the pain" was a portal during the birth of her children, and experiencing altered states of consciousness and the interconnectedness of everything led to her life's work of honouring women's cycles. Rooted in earth-based spirituality, Jane expands on the seasons in life and the menstrual cycle, the menstrual cycle being a doorway into womanhood. She also shares her wealth of knowledge through her amazing Spinning Wheels App, which helps to guide and connect you with the wisdom of your menstrual cycle, lunar cycle, earth seasons, and life cycles. Jane carries on the lineage from Jeannine Parvati Baker and runs the international School of Shamanic Womancraft created in 2009. This conversation is rich in wisdom, and she encourages us to reclaim the wisdom of our cycles and the spiritual practice of menstruation, birth and all rites of passage. With love, Eleanor and Emma Website: www.thereconnected.comFacebook: www.fb.com/thereconnectedInstagram: www.instagram.com/the_reconnectedTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@the_reconnectedPinterest: www.pinterest.com.au/the_reconnected/Twitter: www.twitter.com/the_reconnected

Today on The Natural Birth Podcast I will be the guest. Usually on this podcast I am the host and I interview mamas from around the world who've had a natural and empowering birth experience. The intention with this podcast was to spread an alternative birth narrative to the dominant fear based medicalized one. And I've come to be known as The Spiritual Midwife around the world doing so. And that is what I am here to talk about today. Because I will no longer be called The Spiritual Midwife, but the The Spiritual Midwitch. As of this year 2023 I am no longer a registered midwife and can therefor no longer legally call myself a midwife. And so in today's episode I will share my her story. My journey of becoming a midwife to then the choice to de-register and taking on the title of Midwitch. I will start with reading a part of the chapter HerStory in Rachel Reed's book Reclaiming Childbirth as a Rite of Passage to set the scene and this will then weave in perfectly into the reasons why I am stepping out of the system and why I can no longer call myself a midwife due to the powers to be who have stolen the word and made it criminal for me to do so. If you want to understand why our birth culture is the way it is then this episode will explain that to you. And if you'd like to know more about our her story, about midwives and how our birth culture came to be as it is today, then I invite you to read Reclaiming Childbirth as a Rite of Passage and/or download HerStory by Jane Hardwicke Collings from the links below. This episode will introduce you a bit deeper to me, your host, Anna The Spiritual Midwitch. Curious about me? Find me on instagram as @thespiritualmidwitch This episode is sponsored by Informed Pregnancy Plus. Try Informed Pregnancy Plus absolutely free of charge. Just visit informedpregnancy.tv and start watching these inspiring documentaries and films already today. Find All of Anna's Links & Resources Here: ⁠⁠www.thenaturalbirthcourse.com/links⁠-podcast --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thenaturalbirthpodcast/message

This one is super vulnerable for me! It is also likely going to surprise some people, especially some of the people that have known me a long time. Thank you for holding space and witnessing me as I unravel and reclaim my own truth in real time. I invite you to dig deep and dissect some of your own beliefs around spirituality and religion. Asking yourself: Are these beliefs my own? How does patriarchal conditioning show up in my life?   What do words like witch, witchcraft,  church, God/Goddess, etc mean to me? What do I feel in my body hearing these words? Resources mentioned in this episode: Herstory by Jane Hardwicke Collings  (listen here OR read here)Maiden to Mother by Sarah Durham Wilson Witches, Midwives, and Nurses by  Barbara EhrenreichMore on the Garbage Post Challenge in episode #24Connect with me on IG (@nicolepasveer)Want to be a guest on the podcast?  Fill out this formIf this show has inspired, transformed or made your life a tinyyy bit better in anyway and you've been searching for a way to say thank you, and support me in producing more episodes, you can now buy me a donut

In this Episode, Oni Blecher interviews Jane Hardwicke Collings. Jane has spent decades in the realms of birth education and ther wider work of reconnecting women with their sacred rites of passage. Jane started and runs the School of Shamanic Woman Craft and the Charity organisation Hygieia Health; revolutionising maternity care in Australia to minimise and prevent birth related trauma.Jane has many gifts of wisdom from her decades of experience in regards to birthing well. Not only is Jane and her school a wellspring of knowledge but she is a keen collaborator and her generosity to other groups and organisatins including ours is a testament to her ability to evolve our field and work together for a better future.Below are links to the Northern Rivers based events mentioned in Jane's interview. FREE birth trauma event:https://janehardwickecollings.com/events/red-thread-birth-trauma-a-conversation-with-jane-hardwicke-collings-rhea-dempsey/ https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/birth-trauma-awareness-event-tickets-623425651907 Red Thread Birth Trauma - A Conversation with Jane Hardwicke Collings and Rhea Dempsey

My guest today is a proper badass hag.  Jane Hardwicke Collings is a grandmother, former homebirth midwife for 30 years, a teacher, writer and menstrual educator. She gives workshops on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause. Jane founded and runs The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international Women's Mysteries School.I wanted to know how to be a fab elder, or hag or crone because there really aren't so many positive role models or much signposting. We discussed:o   What menopause taught Jane about being an elder. o   The importance of owning our language and how we name ourselves: hag, crone, elder, wise womano   How to balance following your passion with caring for being in an ageing body. o   How can we protect against the mental effects of ageingo   How do we counteract the miserable narratives about older womeno   What Jane wished she had known in her 40'so   How Jane's relationship with death illuminates her day-to-day living You'll notice in the conversation that though we both use a seasonal structure as a map for life, Jane and I do this differently. Jane sees one cycle through the seasons with the end of Winter announcing death, and I see two cycles, with a Second Spring starting postmenopause. Jane's links:Website www.janehardwickecollings.com and   www.schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com Instagram  @janehardwickecollings Facebook  ‘Jane Hardwicke Collings' More information about Katehttps://www.katecodrington.co.uk/Instagram @kate_codringtonSecond Spring: the self-care guide to menopause is available from your favourite bookshopMusicTrust Me (instrumental) by RYYZNCreative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0Free Download / StreamMusic promoted by Audio LibraryArtworkKate's portrait by Lori Fitzdoodles

This week in The Lounge I welcomed a guest who had me in goosebumps half the time and brought some serious BME - (Big Matriarch Energy) - a term which I've just coined...at least I think nobody else has used it anyway!Jane Hardwicke Collings, the founder of The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international Women's Mysteries School, came on to discus menopause and rites of passage.We chatted about the misunderstood elements of menopause and peri-menopause, debunked some misinformation and myth around it as something to be pathologised and approached from the disease model of medicine, and covered lots of ground as we meandered through the ways in which menopause can be seen and used as a gift, and an important, potent rite of passage.We also talked about libido in menopause, how the way you bleed and birth are reflected in the way your move through menopause, how to navigate it with grace and help support yourself to have an easier time, and "symptoms" versus "signals" from your body. There's SO much good stuff in here and Jane is a wealth of knowledge and passion so I absolutely loved this interview!Plus you can expect all the usual antics and hilarious, vulnerable n' relatable personal stories and signature segments that you've come to know and love here in The Labia Lounge!Make sure you're subscribed for more LL action, and it'd absolutely warm my heart and tickle my clit if you'd leave a gushing review or five star rating for the poddy!Check out Jane's work here: janehardwickecollings.com and get her free resource for listeners, the Her Story - Womanifesto ebook, here: http://janehardwickecollings.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/herstory_ebook.pdf*** Join my Labia Lounge Facebook group for extra content, Q & As, freebies from my guests, discounts and to be part of a rad and supportive community of labial legends! www.facebook.com/groups/thelabialounge/Grab a P*ssy Magnet and check out the new Labia Lounge MERCH over here (there's even fanny packs if the standard tote bags and tees ain't cuttin' it for ya!): https://www.freyagraf.com/productsonline-trainingsAnd chuck me a follow here: https://www.instagram.com/freyagraf_thelabialounge/AND here: (my backup account cos I keep offending the Algorithms-that-be) https://www.instagram.com/freya.graf/Or support me and the poddy by buying me an extra hot soy chai latte (yes, that is my coffee order cos I'm a bit of a tosser like that) here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/freyagraf Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Educator and author Jane Hardwicke Collings joins to share her knowledge on the women's mysteries and how to love yourself through the unfolding of menarch, motherhood, and menopause. This is what they won't teach your in sex ed class! I highly suggest BOTH women and men listen to this episode because it's useful and potentially life-changing information to all.  Follow Jane on Instagram @janehardwickecollings janehardwickecollings.com schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com  Support Probably Cancelled on Patreon to hear episodes early! Subscribe to PC Pod on Rumble & Telegram Follow on IG @probably.cancelled.pod & Twitter @CancellledPod

This week Jane Hardwicke Collings jois us to share her wisdom around Blood Rites! Join the "Women's Circle Group" to connect with like-minded people and be notified of FREE live-gatherings https://discord.gg/z9vMGaE93G We explore: Reclamation of Blood Rite The thread between each Rite of Passage Releasing menstrual shame Learning the language of our body Nurturing loneliness Healing the sisterhood wound and much more.... Jane's offerings Host: Danielle Women's Circle Membership DM for discount price www.danielle-catherine.com Sponsor. Evolving Humans, Energy Healing Expert: https://evolvinghumans.com Music Credits: Aleider Bernal Cordoba --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/depths-of-motherhood/message

Jane Hardwicke Collings is a powerful, magickal Boss Witch who is a on a mission to wake up the Witches. She woke me up when I came across her work, that's for sure. As my incredible teacher of the Women's Mysteries, I'm thrilled that Jane joined me on the Wild Flow Podcast to inspire, ignite, and call you into being the woman the Earth needs now too. Tune in to hear:Jane's cosmic weather report, a powerfully simple tool to understand how the cycles around and within you are influencing you. Jane sharing the breadcrumbs she followed that have led her to becoming the woman and leader she is today. How we got into the state of the world we're in today with high rates of depression, illness, disempowerment in a broken system, and what we can do at this pivotal point in time to create change individually, and collectively. Reflections on the deeply transformative year-long Four Seasons Journey is which I'm doing with Jane this year, and what Jane's intention for creating it was, Jane explaining the phase of life she's in right now: the Maga phase, post-menopausal powerful Autumn Harvest Queen, and how we can prepare before hand for a healthy, empowering menopause beforehand, and claim our gifts and power when we're there ourselves. Thank you so much to Jane for chatting with us, leading us, teaching us and guiding us into our own power. >>>>>>>>>Connect with Jane Hardwicke Collings:Herstory ebook and audioJane's website Her School of Shamanic Womancraft's website Jane's Instagram Read the full show notes at https://charlottepointeaux.com/waking-the-witches-standing-in-your-feminine-power/>>>>>>>>>Thanks so much as ever for supporting me to host Wild Flow Podcast! It means such a lot to receive your ratings, reviews, and to be tagged in your IG stories @charlotte.pointeaux.coach! Please share with your soul sisters who are learning to honour their cycles and live as an embodied cyclical woman too, so they can receive the wisdom they're searching for. Find the full show notes at https://charlottepointeaux.com/podcast/ Charlotte xxx PS: Would you love to belong to a soul-nourishing sisterhood of women who are deeply connected to their inner seasons, cycles and body's wisdom? If so, I'd love to invite you to become a treasured member of our Wild Flow Coven membership and Subscribe for your free cycle magick rituals guides. Want to dive deeper and be held in your own private container for inner healing? Find my coaching and programs here at https://charlottepointeaux.com/coaching/

Juliet Allen is a leading global sexologist, sexuality coach and tantra practitioner, and founder of Pleasure School®. Her mission is to connect you to your true sexual essence and passion potential. We are beyond honoured to bring you this authentic, magical conversation around sex, and both empowering and healing yourself sexually. In this conversation with Juliet: – The story of Juliet’s own journey to sacred sexuality, sexual empowerment, and sexology (including her Saturn Return) – The essence of sexual empowerment, and how to define what being a sexually empowered woman really is – The history and conditioning surrounding women being demonised and shamed for expressing their sexuality, and how Juliet liberates her clients – How we can be impacted, and ultimately empowered, by initiation as women – Why our sexual health is such an important key aspect of our overall healing journey, and how we can check in on our sexual vitality – Juliet’s thoughts on why sex is such a taboo topic – The power of our sexual energy as women – Sex magic, and how Juliet has used it as a potent, intentional manifestation tool in her own life – Self-pleasure as a self-care ritual, and how Yinn Body came about – Libido and attraction as markers of both practical health and spiritual/emotional wellness, and why Juliet refers low libido clients to a naturopath (hello, Em!) – Why safety is essential for healthy sex and self-pleasure – Sex as a healing modality; how sex can be therapeutic, and sex as bodywork – Involving a partner in healing, magical sexual practices – How and why Juliet combines tantra and sexology for a holistic approach, and Juliet’s definition of tantric sex – Masculine and feminine approaches to sex, and the sexual poles within male and female bodies – Communicating our sexual needs to a partner – Yoni and womb healing, and Juliet’s thoughts on yoni eggs – Juliet’s top tips for more magical, empowering sex Mentioned in this episode:Jane Hardwicke Collings’ work Work With Juliet:https://www.instagram.com/juliet_allen/https://www.juliet-allen.com/https://pleasureschool.juliet-allen.com/ Join the Witches Being Witches Coven:Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/wbwcommunity

Shannon and Laura were absolutely thrilled when Jane agreed to once again visit our Zoom room and record another powerful and potent episode. Jane has recently released ‘Blood Rites- The Spiritual Practice of Menstruation', which we talk about. Jane speaks to us about Peri Menopause, and how we can navigate this time. We also explore the concept of ‘The Wounded Sisterhood', and how we work towards changing this culture. The other main topic of conversation that we wanted to talk with Jane about was men and the various rites of passage and ceremonies that they can go experience. While she is the first to acknowledge there are plenty of male leaders in this area- Jane shares the rites of passage ceremonies and activities that her community has done in the past for both girls, women, boys and men. Love Jane like we do? Find her incredible work in the following places. Jane's website https://janehardwickecollings.com/ Instagram- @janehardwickecollings& @schoolofshamanicwomancraft Support Turns Out Network Here Visit Shannon's, and Asha Moon's websites below www.ashamoon.squarespace.com www.shannon-cotterill.squarespace.com Have a witchy question to ask? Get in touch, we would love to hear from you! tospsychic@gmail.com Follow us on Instagram @turnsout_shesawitch Presented by Shannon Cotterill & Laura Turner. Production & original music by Matt Turner @turnzout_media.

In this episode I speak with Jane Hardwicke Collings. Jane sees herself as an agent of the Goddess. She is a Priestess at the birth altar and at the altar of transformation. She is a former midwife, woman's mysteries teacher, shamanic woman-crafter and founder of the School of Shamanic Womancraft. In today's episode we talk about the shame of our menstrual cycles—and how snake medicine is the healing for this reclamation. We also talk about: The rites of passage within a woman's lifetime How to heal internalized patriarchy The Pill—what it really does to our bodies The Lunar Phase Return & its connection to surprise pregnancy Resources: Jane Harwicke Collings: https://janehardwickecollings.com/ (Website) | https://www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings/ (Instagram) | https://www.instagram.com/schoolofshamanicwomancraft/ (School of Shamanic Womancraft) Mentioned in Episode: https://janehardwickecollings.thinkific.com/courses/snake-medicine-shedding-menstrual-shame (Snake Medicine, Shedding Menstrual Shame) Course,https://www.amazon.com/Lunar-Cycle-Astrological-Fertility-Control/dp/185327013X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2X45FC2DODX0N&keywords=the+lunar+cycle+francesca&qid=1650053543&sprefix=the+lunar+cycle+franchesca+%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-1 ( The Lunar Cycle: Astrological Fertility Control book by Francesca Naish) https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScCWdyTtCCOEsnX61bS0AUU17npJFeLD66ztbrxVImQI63Chw/viewform (Rename & Reclaim Campaign) | https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=search&v=2956149667957185&external_log_id=8a539b51-6898-4a2f-a684-eca017cef75c&q=Jane%20Hardwicke%20Collings%20rename%20and%20reclaim (Video) https://janehardwickecollings.com/product/thirteen-moons-a-cycle-charting-handbook-journal/ (13 Moons: A Cycle Charting Journal and Handbook) by Jane Hardwicke Collings Jaclyn Norton: https://jaclynnorton.com/ (Website) | https://www.instagram.com/jaclynnorton/ (Instagram)

Milli Hill is a writer, feminist, and freelance journalist with a passion for reframing the narrative around women's bodies. She is the author of The Positive Birth Book, Give Birth like a Feminist, and My Period (for preteen girls). From 2012 to 2021, she founded and ran the Positive Birth Movement, a global network of antenatal discussion groups aimed at improving birth and giving women better access to support and information. As a journalist since 2013, she has written for many publications including the Telegraph, Mail, and Guardian, along with appearing on the BBC, talk radio, LBC, and many leading podcasts. She lives in Somerset with her partner and three children. In this episode, you will hear about: Milli's feminist viewpoint of women's traumatic birth experiences Positive Birth Movement The cycles of being female Jane Hardwicke Collings (a shamanic menstruation educator) Reframing the birth and menstruation conversations for our daughters Losing touch with nature Kristy witnessed a dog giving birth Relating 5 Rhythms dance to being in labor The value of a birth doula Changing the language around birth A serious Internet attack on Milli's thoughts Is our biological sex now on a spectrum? Being more inclusive To mask our children at school or not? Reconnect with nature for healing Connect with Milli: Website: MilliHill.co.uk Twitter: @millihill Instagram: @milli.hill Facebook: @millihillwriter Global Network: Positive Birth Movement Books by Milli Hill: The Positive Birth Book Give Birth Like A Feminist My Period: Find your flow and feel proud of your period! Next week, we will unravel what society says is "true" about motherhood so you can reclaim your power around pregnancy and birth with Kelly Jernigan! This is the perfect segway from talking with Milli.

Today on the podcast, we have one of our most loved returning guests; naturopathic doctor and best-selling author Lara Briden. If you have had the pleasure of listening to Lara on one of our previous podcasts, you know she is an absolute wealth of knowledge for all things women's reproductive, menstrual, and hormonal health. As a woman, listening to her illustrate the inextricable relationship between female reproductive health, mental health, and hormone systems, there is a sense of belonging and reclamation for the natural cycles that have been medically interrupted.   Over the years, we've had Lara on the podcast talking about period repair, PCOS, Hypothalamic Amenorrhea, and all they encompass; Today, Lara is joining us to talk about the transitions into perimenopause and menopause. Lara's enlightened wisdom reminds us that menopause is not something to dread or treat as a medical 'condition' to be corrected; but rather a gateway and rite of passage to be honoured and exalted.    In this beautiful conversation with Tahnee, Lara dispels menopausal fallacies replacing them with profound knowledge and biological facts about what this sacred transition within the female body/psyche represents. Lara reframes the metabolic/hormonal shifts between the reproductive years and perimenopause,  details the best diet/herbal medicines for menopause, and offers a beautiful evolutionary perspective of menopause across time and cultures. "How the perimenopause transition is going for a woman depends on a lot of factors. Your stress, your adrenal system, your stress support system, how stable it is, how strong your circadian rhythm is, how well-nourished you are, how your immune system is. All of those things, including, unfortunately, how many environmental toxins you have been exposed to. Any of those negative things can increase the symptoms of the perimenopause transition".    - Lara Briden    Tahnee and Lara discuss: Menopause. Perimenopause. Contraceptive drugs The reproductive years. Pill bleeds are not periods. The phases of perimenopause. The transition into menopause. Herbal medicine for menopause. Hormone therapy for menopause. Why alcohol and menopause don't mix. The difference between progesterone and progestin. Bone density loss with perimenopause/menopause. The hormonal shifts during perimenopause/menopause. At what age do women start getting symptoms of menopause?   Who Lara Briden? Lara Briden is a naturopathic doctor and author of the bestselling books Period Repair Manual andHormone Repair Manual. With a strong science background, Lara sits on several advisory boards and is the lead author of a 2020 paper published in a peer-reviewed medical journal. She has 25 years' experience in women's health and currently has consulting rooms in Christchurch, New Zealand, where she treats women with PCOS, PMS, endometriosis, perimenopause, and many other hormone- and period-related health problems.   CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST    If you're wanting to enrich your knowledge and dive deeper into Lara's work, make sure you check out the resources below linking to Lara's websites, books and previous podcasts.      Resources: Dr. Lara's website Dr. Lara's Instagram Dr. Lara's Facebook Lara Briden Forum The Period Repair Manual-Lara Briden Period Repair with Lara Briden (EP#21) The Power of Menopause with Jane Hardwick Collings (EP#77) Is It PCOS or Hypothalamic Amenorrhea with Lara Briden (EP#99)   Resources Mentioned In The Podcast:   The Power of Eating Enough - Lara Briden Blog Post The Difference Between Progesterone and Progestin - Lara Briden Blog Post The Slow Moon Climbs - The Science, History, and Meaning of Menopause (book mentioned by Lara in podcast)       Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:00) Hi everyone, welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. I am here with Lara Briden, she is one of our friends of the podcast. It's our third episode with us today, really excited to have her here. And we're speaking about perimenopause and menopause, really in reference to her book, the Hormone Repair Manual, which if you're my age and over, I'm in my mid 30s, highly recommend getting a copy. It's actually a really good, fun read and really interesting just thinking about preparing for this stage of life. So thank you for joining us on the podcast again, Lara. I'm so happy to have you here.   Lara Briden: (00:34) Thanks for having me. Looking forward to our chat again.   Tahnee: (00:39) Yeah, another one. And we've been sort of all over the world. I think we've done a lot of stuff on menstruation really when you've been on with us, but I was really excited when I saw you publish this. It was last year, wasn't it?   Lara Briden: (00:48) Yeah. Came out early last year.   Tahnee: (00:50) Yes. I think I've had it for quite a while. And I guess from I think women hit this, I hit middle 30s and was like, "I don't have much information about menopause and I've only had these sort of anecdotal stories from family and friends about what happens to women and it's usually pretty negative. It's not really framed up in a positive way." And then I was telling you we had Jane Hardwicke Collings on the podcast and she spoke a lot around the spiritual side of things and these important transitions that we have in our lives. And it just made me a bit more interested and excited about what's coming.   Tahnee: (01:28) I think reading your book, yes, obviously it's a complex time, but just how you mapped out the stages and took something that can feel really sort of dark and unknown and maybe even a little bit scary and... I don't know, I think it just made me feel a little bit more confident and reassured, so thank you for that.   Lara Briden: (01:43) That's sweet. I had one review say, "Yeah, made me feel like everything's going to be okay." Which is-   Tahnee: (01:53) I think it's like with pregnancy, because I'm pregnant right now and you hear about birth growing up and it's always people's hectic horror stories. It's always like, "Oh and you have to carry a baby around this and that." And I think when you actually go through it, it's like, "That's actually really magical and quite beautiful." I mean, I know it's not for everybody, but that's been my experience and it's reframed a lot of that for me. And I think, just this book started that journey for me. So hopefully menopause is a fun experience. But I thought that idea of it being predictable was really interesting that you speak about early in the book, in the sense that there's a rhythm or a pattern that unfolds.   Lara Briden: (02:33) There's a sequence of events, it's not just chaos. It's portrayed as this hormonal chaotic time. That's not actually what's happening, it's a sequence. We'll start with this, it's second puberty. So we have first puberty, which we know is temporary, which we know is turning one thing into another thing. That's what perimenopause is. It's at the other end, it brackets our reproductive years. And it's second puberty, it's the end of periods.   Lara Briden: (03:08) The other good thing about that is it's temporary. And also, I guess the thing I want to say is that writing this book and going through menopause myself, I've reframed actually how I think about female physiology. I now have this sort of view that we have our basic female physiology, which starts at in childhood, we have low hormones, and then we go through 35 to 40 years at the most of our reproductive years, which is amazing. As you know I'm a huge fan of ovulation and periods and pregnancy and all of that's amazing and that helps us make hormones and build metabolic reserve.   Lara Briden: (03:44) But then that has to end, this is the thing about reproductive years, that is, there's an end point. And then we revert back to our more baseline female physiology. So for me, that's sort of really normalised it. It's far from being, "Oh, I'm longer a woman." No, it's the opposite. This is the basic female physiology and then I'm just thankful to have had, in my case about 38 years of periods, I guess.   Tahnee: (04:12) That's a really interesting way to think about it, I guess, because it's almost like this heightened state through these reproductive years, which are so intensive, really in many ways on us and then having this stability afterwards.   Lara Briden: (04:27) The reproductive years are a special time and that's true whether you have pregnancies or not, actually I would say. I mean, obviously pregnancies are a very special part of that, but even for women like myself who did not have pregnancies, it's still those years of ovulating and it's amazing. It also just, for example, having menstrual cycles and pregnancies increases our metabolic rate, increases our demand for calories. So when we exit that, come up the other end, our metabolism shifts, and that's always portrayed as a bad thing. You start to gain weight with menopause. But again, I've sort of reframed it as we need fewer calories in a way. And so from a-   Tahnee: (05:07) Less resources.   Lara Briden: (05:08) Yeah. From an evolutionary perspective, I might jump to that because as you know, I might have mentioned on the podcast before, before I became a naturopathic doctor, I was an evolutionary biologist and I see a lot of things through that lens. Menopause is particularly fascinating from an evolutionary perspective because all the evidence is now that even in ancient times, even in prehistoric times, there were women who made it through to 80 years old. Contrary to the mistaken belief that we all died by 40, that is not the case at all. A lot of people died young because of injuries and unfortunately childhood mortality and death in childbirth as well. There's lots of hazards before modern medicine, but it was always still possible and not uncommon for individuals to live to 80.   Lara Briden: (06:04) And actually what some of the research shows and in my book, I quote another book called The Slow Moon Climbs, where she builds the case that a longer human lifespan for both sexes evolved because of beneficial selection pressure on women in their post reproductive decades. So basically it's about the fact that 50 something, 60 something women are so productive for their group. They gather more food than any other demographic and they share it and they also need less themselves. So that's the perfect member of a society. They're helping everyone, they're gathering food. They're very lean, efficient machines themselves because they don't need as much energy. And it's a good thing, it's like a superpower. It's that reframing of the shift in metabolism as certainly beneficial for our ancestors.   Lara Briden: (07:00) It's a little bit trickier now in our modern world where we live with so many surrounded by sugar and processed foods. That's what you would call an evolutionary mismatch with our ancient metabolism. We can explore that a little bit, but just the basic message being, menopause is meant to happen. It evolved, it's not an accident of living too long. It's something, if we're lucky enough to live this long, that we do as women. I think understanding all of that just changed it all for me personally, I just feel far from feeling like I'm done. I feel now this is the next exciting chapter where you get to do lots of things.   Tahnee: (07:43) Well, I want to bookmark a little bit there because there's a couple things I want to drill down on. I think that piece around the mismatch evolutionarily is really interesting, but I just want to go back a little bit to what you said about, which I guess it's lining up, if you think about how we live now, back in those days it would've been that support of the older, wiser, probably more hands on members of society to the reproducing ones. And I think now we've got this interesting cultural thing where even with myself, I work full time, I have a kid, I'm going to have another kid. And I can see how that drains women as well as they head into their perimenopausal and menopausal years. I wonder if you've noticed that in your clinical work, is there's this extra pressure now on women during their reproductive years and how that affects menopause.   Lara Briden: (08:40) Oh yeah. Well, there's so many reasons. Couple things I'll say so that'll answer your question about clinically what I'm saying. If I could just allow me for a little bit to talk about the evolution a little bit more and restore of humans because I've [crosstalk 00:08:55]. So what we know now about hominids, well, ancient human groups is that we had to have a lot of... To do what we did and spread over the world and be so successful, there always had to be a high ratio between adults and children, which is very interesting. You had to have what they call, I think they called them alloparents. So you had to have non reproducing adults basically who would support and help the reproducing women do what they had to do.   Lara Briden: (09:28) And that's actually what enabled women, the reproducing members of society, to make babies every three years, back to back like that. Because you can imagine a individual human, a woman in the wild, there's no way you could raise baby after baby with no help. [crosstalk 00:09:46] And a husband isn't enough, one person isn't enough. You have to have aunts and uncles, grandmothers. And so there's that.   Lara Briden: (09:57) So obviously yes, I think to speak to your question, young mothers are under a lot of pressure now that they wouldn't have been. And that is a drain on their stress response system. That's certainly not ideal, in terms of stress level throughout the reproductive years. A lot of what happens at perimenopause, you know how in my first book I talk about the period as the monthly report card, perimenopause is like the final exam. It's everything that's been happening, what amount of metabolic reserve you were able to build up through... When you get to your early 40s, because for a lot of us, the change does start in our early 40s. It's not somewhere off in your mid 50s. I mean, that's a mistaken understanding that a lot of women have, like, "It's happening now." Not now for you, but for a lot of women, by 40, 42, 43, 44, 45, that's pretty common to start to get some of the neurological symptoms.   Lara Briden: (11:05) And the way that is going to be will depend on a lot of factors and certainly your stress, your adrenal system, we call it naturopathically, or your stress support system, how stable that is, how strong your circadian rhythm is, how well nourished you are, how your immune system is. All of those things, including unfortunately, how many environmental toxins you might have been exposed to. Any of those negative things can increase the symptoms of the perimenopause transition.   Lara Briden: (11:40) Because I'm convinced from a biology evolutionary point of view and also as discussed in the book that I mentioned, low Moon Climbs, the actual transition of perimenopause to menopause, historically would've not been symptomatic. There's no reason that we would've... The body should be able to make that change symptom free. Obviously you stop ovulating and stop having periods, that's what happens, but there's no reason that should go along with distressing, sleep or hot flushes or all the things that can happen. Just as there's no reason periods should be... Periods are not painful inherently. They are commonly painful, but that's a mismatch a lot of the time with our modern food supply and other things going on.   Lara Briden: (12:30) So that's the idea of evolutionary mismatch. I think actually to perimenopause and perimenopause symptoms is the classic example of evolutionary mismatch. This idea that symptoms arise from a mismatch between our ancient physiology and our modern environment. And not just food, not just environmental toxins, but circadian rhythm would come into that a lot, disrupted circadian rhythm. On the topic of environmental toxins, there's actually a bit of interesting research. I do include it in the book just only like one sentence [crosstalk 00:13:00].   Tahnee: (13:00) Lead stuff?   Lara Briden: (13:00) Yes.   Tahnee: (13:01) Yeah. I was going to ask about [crosstalk 00:13:03].   Lara Briden: (13:03) Good eyes. There's like one sentence about that, but possibly, and this is just one example of the way environmental toxins can affect us, but there's some research to suggest that some of the neurological symptoms of the perimenopause transition, so that would include anxiety, sleep disturbance, potentially hot flashes, may arise at least in part from the release of lead from our bones. It's sounds awful, but this is the case. That we've accumulated through a lifetime and now with increased bone turnover with dropping oestrogen levels, more of that lead is liberated into the bloodstream.   Lara Briden: (13:44) And so for example, just to give you... When I was a kid, we had leaded petroleum or leaded gasoline. Obviously the society has been trying to reduce lead exposure, but some of us, especially born in the '60s and '70s, were exposed to more. And with heavy metal toxins, as you probably know, the body sequesters it, so it's like, "Oh, this is bad." Puts it in the bones, which takes it out of circulation for a while, but eventually comes back. So that's an intriguing bit of research to kind of wonder if without body burden of lead, what would... I think there's other factors too. I don't think that would mean we're all of us symptom free, but it's an intriguing-   Tahnee: (14:26) It could be a tipping point or something.   Lara Briden: (14:27) Yeah. It's a factor.   Tahnee: (14:30) I found that really interesting too. And even just because you hear about osteoporosis in sort of menopausal years, but I think, I didn't really understand that it was just that turnover process was heightened and faster, I suppose.   Lara Briden: (14:43) Yes, it's an increased bone turnover. Which is real, and a lot of that's comes from losing oestrogen and progesterone to some extent.   Tahnee: (14:50) So that's happening in the body anyway. We have osteoblast clast going around and [crosstalk 00:14:56].   Lara Briden: (14:55) Yes, the turnover is always happening. Yes, exactly.   Tahnee: (14:57) So can you explain, is the difference with menopause is as the progesterone and oestrogen drop-   Lara Briden: (15:04) Yes.   Tahnee: (15:04) Is that just completely affecting the speed of that process, is that [crosstalk 00:15:09]?   Lara Briden: (15:09) So there's more osteoclast activity or the cells that kind of chew up bone. Osteoclasts are suppressed by oestrogen, not completely, but... So as you know, we're always, from peak bone density, peak bone mass around age 30, we, everyone, men and women, it's downhill from there basically. We're losing bone mass incrementally, continuously, and that's normal. But the idea is we want to have hopefully strong enough bones to last into our 80s or 90s. At some point we're not going to need our bones anymore. But around the later phases of perimenopause when oestrogen drops, because I just point out oestrogen is actually high in the early phases, which is interesting. But around the later phases and into after your final period, it is true, there is acceleration of that bone loss for at least about five years. And it's real, I think it's just, it's a lot of it your outcome.   Lara Briden: (16:15) And then, the concern is because you're not going to break bones from osteoporosis in your 50s, it's actually, what's going to happen when you're 75, 80. So it's all about this prevention for down the road, so it's about assessing risk. What other risk factors for low bone density might you have? A good example is eating disorders like undereating as a young woman is not good. There's some evidence that hormonal birth control actually impairs bone density, smoking. These are some of the obvious ones, smoking's [crosstalk 00:16:48] not good. So if you have any of those risk factors and then plus, especially if you have an earlier then for the sake of bones, there is a real argument to be made for taking oestrogen potentially long term to protect bones. So I'll just acknowledge that.   Lara Briden: (17:04) There's also lots of other ways to help bones. The muscle and bone are just connected like hand in hand. So maintaining strong muscles is a excellent way to maintain bone health. And we are unfortunately with the final phases of menopause or perimenopause and dropping oestrogen levels, we tend to lose muscle mass, which it's real. It's like you lose your bum, you just start to not have... You can maintain muscles, but you have to work at it. And well, it's a sad reality. And I guess just also speaking back to our ancestors, they didn't work at maintaining muscle exactly. They were walking around carrying [crosstalk 00:17:49]. Yeah. Carrying bundles of food and babies and-   Tahnee: (17:52) Children.   Lara Briden: (17:52) Yeah.   Tahnee: (17:53) Yes. 20 kilos to laugh that to me at the moment, people like, "Look at your arms." I'm like, I would, I have a 20 kilo child. I think that's a really interesting piece with our modern society. And we seem to keep looking back at this mismatch, but we would've been so much more active and just incidentally active through our day to day lives [crosstalk 00:18:17].   Lara Briden: (18:17) They didn't exercise.   Tahnee: (18:18) Yeah. They're not working out at the gym or anything.   Lara Briden: (18:20) No. [crosstalk 00:18:22]   Tahnee: (18:23) And I think that that losing that throughout our whole lives, it's a challenge, and for younger people.   Lara Briden: (18:29) Younger people. Sure.   Tahnee: (18:29) But I notice you mentioned walking, that's something you do a lot and-   Lara Briden: (18:33) Yeah.   Tahnee: (18:34) Some of the women I know who've had easier transitions movement does seem to play a part in that for them the more active jobs or people who walk a lot or do those more active things.   Lara Briden: (18:45) For sure. I love the fact that you use the word movements rather than exercise. I'm a convert to saying movement because of the inherent sort of just joyfulness of it. You're not, as you say, working out, it's not a chore. You're moving your body. So I would emphasise, it's pretty important to find a style of movement that is enjoyable because that's the way you're going to do it on a regular basis. Not to be healthy, not to specifically to build bone, but because it feels good to move your body.   Tahnee: (19:19) You actually like to do it. And I think that was interesting because you had some research around, I think it was yoga and hot flashes, which I hadn't heard and thought was super interesting, but I know yoga's not for everybody because some people it's too much stretching. Because sometimes I think resistance training can be better for like what you're talking about, holding muscle mass and strengthening bones and things. But I thought that was an interesting study because I hadn't heard of that symptom.   Lara Briden: (19:45) A lot of things affect hot flashes actually, because there are nervous system symptoms. So there's lots ways to help to stabilise. The nervous system is recalibrating. We can launch into that now, but I'll just say a word for... I love yoga and I agree [crosstalk 00:20:01].   Tahnee: (20:00) I love it. I'm a yoga [crosstalk 00:20:02].   Lara Briden: (20:01) You either love it or you don't. If you don't, that's fine, but it has a lot of things going for it. You do build muscle with yoga, especially if you're doing some of the stronger squats and lunges and things. And also as I talk about in the book, it's so good for the nervous system. It's this combination of actually arms above the head, controlled breathing, long exhales. That's really good for the vagus nerve as you probably know. And it's very stabilising for the nervous system. So I love it. I acknowledge not everyone feels the same, but I'm in the camp of how do people survive without yoga? [crosstalk 00:20:36]   Tahnee: (20:36) No, trust me, that's me too. But one thing I've noticed with, I don't know, I used to teach a lot of menopausal women and they seem to have, you mentioned it in the book, a lot of energy. And I do find sometimes I feel like they actually don't connect to the... They seem to enjoy moving more.   Lara Briden: (20:58) Okay. More vigorously maybe sometimes [crosstalk 00:21:01].   Tahnee: (21:01) Which is something interesting because I teach a lot of Yin and slower. I did used to teach hectic stuff too, but it was just interesting when I was watching how different people responded to practices. And look, it could be a nervous system thing too, like you're talking about. I thought that was an interesting chapter. I guess just thinking about how much, I mean, that affects all of us, like heart rate variability and all of these things. But I thought that was really interesting in relation to peri and menopause. So can you talk a little bit about that side of things?   Lara Briden: (21:33) Oh, about the nervous system [crosstalk 00:21:35]. Yeah. So let's talk about that. Perfect, because I mentioned about recalibration of the nervous system. And we'll get our terms straight too. So perimenopause is the lead up to menopause basically. I mean, there's different ways. Menopause itself as a word has different definitions depending on who you ask. But the definition I use comes from the professor who helped me with my book, Jerilynn Prior. She is in the camp that defines menopause as the life phase that begins one year after your final period. So she would call that menopause is the next 30 years going forward from perimenopause.   Lara Briden: (22:22) Some people define it differently. Some people call that post-menopause I'm with her, that menopause is all of those decades that come after. Whereas perimenopause is the change and that's where the symptoms come from. Most of the symptoms are temporary. With the, we probably won't get to it today, but just acknowledging that longer term symptoms with menopause or post menopause depending on how you want to define it, would be things like vaginal dryness and that whole syndrome that goes along with low oestrogen and how that affects the pelvis and bladder. And so that's obviously [crosstalk 00:22:57].   Tahnee: (22:56) Not the prolapse sort of.   Lara Briden: (22:58) That sort of thing. So that's-   Tahnee: (23:00) And you speak to that in the book.   Lara Briden: (23:01) I do. There's a chapter section on that. That's not temporary, but a lot of the other symptoms are temporary, especially the neurological symptoms of which most symptoms of premenopausal are neurological, and they arise from the recalibration process. So just as first puberty is, as you can imagine, a recalibration of the brain. The brain undergoes pretty major changes in first puberty, obviously. And the immune system undergoes changes with first puberty. The same happens with second puberty or perimenopause. So a brain rewiring, that's what I call chapter to seven in the book, is rewiring the brain.   Lara Briden: (23:44) The other system that undergoes quite a profound recalibration is the immune system. And that's why there's such thing as perimenopausal allergies and an increased likelihood of autoimmune flare. And the other system that undergoes a recalibration is the metabolic system and cardiovascular system all around a shift to insulin resistance, unfortunately, which also affects the brain.   Lara Briden: (24:09) But in answer to your question about the nervous system, I'll just talk about the nervous systems. So nervous system symptoms include hot flushes, night sweats. Night sweats are usually first, premenstrual night sweats, first in terms of sequence of symptoms to arise. And then sleep disturbance is quite a common one, increased likelihood of anxiety and depression, dialled up premenstrual mood symptoms potentially, and migraines. Did I already say migraine?   Tahnee: (24:44) No.   Lara Briden: (24:45) [crosstalk 00:24:45] No, increased frequency of migraines. I just had a patient the other day actually with classic. She said she'd had maybe two migraines in her first puberty and then they went away completely. And then they came back at 42, 43, they started coming back. And so I can talk about some of the underlying physiology that's contributing to that.   Tahnee: (25:07) Well, I just think it's super interesting because I guess reading the book that I noticed a lot of it seemed to come back to that nervous system piece around there's all the sleep symptom and that's really, if we work on regulating nervous system that helps. The hot flash if we work on [crosstalk 00:25:25]. And I guess one of the things I hear a lot from people is, how do I fix my hot flashes? Or how do I fix my insomnia? How do I fix my... And it's like the symptom becomes the focus instead of really drilling down to that root cause around well, maybe there's this imbalance in the activation of the nervous system.   Lara Briden: (25:43) Right. Or just the general strategy of supporting the nervous system rather than having to eliminate that [crosstalk 00:25:50].   Tahnee: (25:49) Yeah. Like focus on cooling down or eating [crosstalk 00:25:53].   Lara Briden: (25:55) For sure. And one thing before I launch into the nervous system and the physiology underlying that, I do just want to point out while I'm thinking of it, there's no diagnostic test for this. This is a little bit... This is worth mentioning-   Tahnee: (26:13) Like it's subjective kind of?   Lara Briden: (26:15) Because it's such a classic story, as women start having night sweats, increased migraines, they feel different. They're like, "Ooh something's happening? Could this be perimenopause?" And then the answer is probably yes. But they go to the doctor and they're like, "Oh, your blood tests are fine." That means nothing. That means absolutely nothing. And same with DUTCH testing or any kind of... There's no diagnostic test for perimenopause. It's purely based on context and symptoms. By context, meaning if you're older than 35, and symptoms and ruling out other causes. For example, thyroid disease can look and feel a lot like perimenopause, but it's something different. Although you can have both happening at the same time, which is confusing.   Lara Briden: (27:08) But I will say just to be clear, so I'm talking about a normal perimenopause, a normal progression where your symptoms might start in your late 30s or early 40s, but you're heading to a final period anywhere between 45 to 55, that's normal. Period stopping due to early menopause at like 35, that's different, and that can be diagnosed by blood tests. We'll leave the early menopause thing. I talk about it in the book, but we'll just leave that separately because obviously that's a whole other conversation.   Lara Briden: (27:45) Today we're talking about the normal timing of things. So what's happening with the nervous system is the sequence of events. Like I said, there's a logical sequence of events, it's not just random chaos. The first thing that happens is start to make less progesterone because we're having shorter luteal phases, your listeners know what I'm talking about, so we're-   Tahnee: (28:13) Yeah, I think so. I mean, the book has that beautiful graph I think. That visual was really good to show my husband. [crosstalk 00:28:20] But so we get that big curve of progesterone and sort of [crosstalk 00:28:26].   Lara Briden: (28:27) In the ovulatory cycle when we're healthy, when we're younger than 40, if we're not on hormonal birth control, we should be having every month, a couple weeks of strong progesterone production. And that helps to lighten periods, that is usually quite good for mood. Although there's a little bit of nuance around that, but generally progesterone for most women is a little bit tranquillising. Well, you've got lots of it right now. Second trimester pregnancy is usually quite tranquillising. I mean, again, it can vary as other factors.   Lara Briden: (29:00) But with on the journey to perimenopause, we just start, our ovulation just becomes less robust. It's nothing you've done wrong. In my first book, I talk about all the ways to promote healthy ovulation and we still want to do that. And in my new book, I have a chapter called cycle while you can. You still want to ovulate as best you can for as long as possible and always remove any obstacles to ovulation, but also accept the fact that ovulations are becoming less robust. Eventually they're going to stop, that's normal.   Lara Briden: (29:35) So with this reduction in progesterone, with shorter luteal phases, maybe a shift to having more anovulatory cycles or cycles where you don't ovulate, but still bleed, we make less progesterone. And that feels like trouble sleeping, increased migraines, increased anxiety potentially, and heavier periods as well, which we might not go into today. We'll see if we have time. But there can be heavy periods going along with all of this. So we lose progesterone, which is one of the reasons taking progesterone, not a progestin in the pill, but natural progesterone can be actually very helpful.   Lara Briden: (30:18) At the same time, we're getting in the early phases of perimenopause. And there's four phases, which I give a little chart in the book. But in the earlier phases, which in total last four or five years, we're also getting potentially oestrogen higher than ever before, up to three times higher than before and spiking up and down. And you can't really that with a blood test, because it's all over the place. But you know from symptoms and from some of the testing research that professor Prior has done, you can see this big oestrogen spikes. And along with oestrogen spiking up high can come this whole immune system reaction that I talk about in the book of high histamine and which is also very-   Tahnee: (31:04) Muscle reaction.   Lara Briden: (31:04) Very muscle activation and this in part is the perimenopausal allergies and it's headaches and irritability and hives sometimes or urticaria sometimes. There's definitely an immune thing going on that can feel terrible. And that I have noticed sometimes gets called oestrogen dominance, although I don't really use that word. But that's that kind of high oestrogen immune stimulated picture with very little progesterone sometimes to counterbalance that. And so that's the first phases and that is not pleasant. Sorry, so that affects the nervous system. That's where some of the other anxiety symptoms come from is that high oestrogen, high histamine plus then estrogen's on a rollercoaster. Then you get some oestrogen withdrawal symptoms leading up to the period, which also doesn't feel very good. That's where the night sweats come from is oestrogen dropping from high to low. So lowest [crosstalk 00:32:02].   Tahnee: (32:01) Kind of addictive. I just want to quickly dive in because I thought that was interesting. I'd never thought of it that way. It's a first.   Lara Briden: (32:10) Yeah. Oestrogen is addictive [crosstalk 00:32:11] for the brain.   Tahnee: (32:11) So when we're swinging, that's this kind of the low is like a withdrawal. [crosstalk 00:32:18]   Lara Briden: (32:17) Yeah. We get oestrogen withdrawal. Yeah, for sure. It's not pleasant. And just to reassure, it was perfect timing with your question, because I was about to say that once we get into that menopause phase, stable, low oestrogen... Not no oestrogen, we still make actually quite a lot of oestrogen still, but we don't get hot flushes and night sweats because it's not the like up and down crashing down part of the oestrogen roller coasters. So a lot of it comes from oestrogen withdrawal and also the oestrogen addiction side of things. It's worth mentioning that if women do take oestrogen therapy... And I think it's fine to take it. I just want to say, in general pro hormone therapy, not everyone needs it, but I think it's reasonable to take that.   Lara Briden: (33:09) Just one thing to understand, that if and when you decide to stop it, you have to taper down oestrogen. I've had patients who they want to take a break and so they've just stop it immediately, and of course get hot flushes back because you're going through oestrogen withdrawal. That doesn't really tell you anything about your underlying need for it, if you know what I mean.   Tahnee: (33:30) Okay. So that makes sense. It's like, you're got to be gradual in changing the body biochemistry [crosstalk 00:33:37].   Lara Briden: (33:36) When you're coming off hormone therapy, you can go on it more-   Tahnee: (33:39) Aggressively?   Lara Briden: (33:40) Rapidly. No, not aggre... No, I always think start low actually. I don't know if we'll have time today to go into all my thoughts about hormone therapy, but if [crosstalk 00:33:46].   Tahnee: (33:46) I think you really talk a lot about that option in the book and I think it's probably something better discussed clinically I think with a practitioner appointment and [crosstalk 00:33:57].   Lara Briden: (33:57) So read book and we'll talk, because I think we want to talk more about the nutrition side of things and-   Tahnee: (34:02) Yeah. I guess the distinction I thought was interesting in the hormonal chapters or sort of, was around the, so you're distinguishing between body identical, bio identical and then the more chemical like synthetic hormones, I suppose. Do you mind just giving us some distinctions around?   Lara Briden: (34:18) Yeah. So just very broad strokes. And I agree, because I think we should focus more on the nutrition side of things today. But I will say, put this simply, so-   Tahnee: (34:27) Good luck.   Lara Briden: (34:30) There's a confusion happening, which is that up until about eight years ago in Australia, it's different in different countries, but I remember exactly when body identical hormones went mainstream in Australia, it was 2016. So that's seven years ago. No, six years ago.   Tahnee: (34:48) Five or six.   Lara Briden: (34:49) How many years ago? I don't even know. With the pandemic, we're like, "Wait, how many years..."   Tahnee: (34:53) "Have I been?" I think it was five because my daughter was born in 2016 and she [crosstalk 00:34:58].   Lara Briden: (34:57) Okay. So it's only five years ago. Five or six years. [crosstalk 00:35:00] That's when body identical also called bioidentical hormones became mainstream. So until that point, which is not that long ago, the only way to access hormones that are actual hormones, actual estradiol, identical to the hormones we make, the only way to access those was compounded. You have to see an integrative doctor. So we have to be a special route to get to those hormones. And now they're pretty much mainstream, and I talk about it in the book, you have to ask for them by brand name. Not all the hormone therapy products on the market are bioidentical, but some of them are, and doctors do know now that it's safer and it's better.   Lara Briden: (35:51) And the real advantage, one of the big differences is that body identical or bioidentical, means the same thing, progesterone is safer for the breasts. So progestins, not progesterone, but the progesterone analogue drugs are not safe for the breasts. And that's actually where a lot of the breast cancer risk came from was the progestin part. So real progesterone in Australia is called Prometrium. This is the brand name in the US. It's Utrogestan in New Zealand and the UK. So hopefully there's a lot more detail in my book, but I hope that clears things up for some people listening.   Tahnee: (36:30) Well, I think that was interesting because you talk about women who've been on the pill until their 50s or some, and then they're like, "Oh I want to go back on the pill, because I got..." [crosstalk 00:36:43].   Lara Briden: (36:44) Don't do that. And then I say, "Yeah, no, no, exactly." And then [crosstalk 00:36:49].   Tahnee: (36:49) In the book you were like, "No," but they were yes in... Anyway, I thought it was an interesting, because I might have mentioned this another time [crosstalk 00:36:54]. But I had a professor who was doing all this research into how the pill's so great because it stops us having periods and blah, blah, blah. This is when I was 18, so this was a long time ago. But he made the point that if you're on the pill, it's mimicking preg... So he was coming-   Lara Briden: (37:10) No.   Tahnee: (37:11) Yes, I know. It's very [crosstalk 00:37:13].   Lara Briden: (37:12) Keep going. Yeah, yeah.   Tahnee: (37:14) But he was like, "It's just like these, our ancient ancestors, how they had lots of babies and they never were bleeding and blah, blah, blah." And so 18 year old Me's like, "Okay, this is making sense." And anyway, long story, but I feel like there's a little bit of that lingering sense of the pills keeping everything in balance and if I go off that it's going to... I hear that a bit in the world when I talk to people and yes, I'm curious if you could talk about how the pill relates to perimenopause and menopause.   Lara Briden: (37:42) Very good question. There's a whole section about that in my book. Again, I'll try to be concise here so we have time for some of the other things too. Just quickly to answer to what this professor was saying to you, which is that the pill mimics pregnancy, which is absolute standard narrative that we've been fed, not my strong word, but that's been out there-   Tahnee: (38:07) Well, this was in university biology course on human reproduction. It's a big thing to teach a bunch of kids.   Lara Briden: (38:13) Yeah. So the problem with that version of things, is that contraceptive drugs, just if we name them, let's say the drug called levonorgestrel and most pills or ethinyl estradiol, that's the synthetic oestrogen. They are not the same as the oestrogen and progesterone you make during pregnancy or during menstrual cycles. In terms of mimicking pregnancy, I mean only very superficially, not in terms of what that means physiologically for the body because the hormones of pregnancy are actually quite beneficial and particularly on the breasts.   Lara Briden: (38:53) And as you know, pregnancies in general, have a risk reduction effect for breast cancer long term. And part of that is the progesterone exposure because real progesterone that you make during pregnancy, that you make during a menstrual cycle, that you can take as Prometrium arguably has a risk reduction effect for breast cancer, whereas progestin increase the risk. So that's just one example of how progestins are different from progesterone. I have a blog post called the crucial difference between progesterone and progestin. So you can look at it there. So an answer to-   Tahnee: (39:28) I think you had the diagram in your book with the two different molecules as well.   Lara Briden: (39:32) Yeah, they're different. So an answer to your question, what does the pill mean for perimenopause? Well, it masks it for one thing. So as we talked about, we'll have to refer, you can put the show notes back to our first episode where I'm sure we had a little discussion about why pill bleeds are not periods. That's true in our 40s as well. So if you're having regular pill induced bleeds, you'll keep having those even after your body went through menopause. It doesn't delay it. If anything, the pill brings menopause a little sooner, it doesn't stop menopause. What will happen is if you've been on the pill and having those bleeds, then when you stop it, you'll be instantly into menopause, over the oestrogen cliff, which is probably why you asked that question thinking, but that's an example of oestrogen withdrawal going straight over. It's like... It's potentially not good.   Lara Briden: (40:32) And so in the patient story that I think you were mentioning from the book, she's like, "Oh, I need to go back on the pill is this is awful." And I'm like, no, well you might as well go on to modern menopause hormone therapy, which is body identical, which is at least giving you real hormones and safer than the pill because the pill is hormone therapy. It's a big dose of synthetic, almost like an old school type of hormone replacement therapy that's not even as good as what they give menopausal women now. So it always feels like a bit of a cruel thing that now finally menopausal women get access to natural hormones conventionally. The young women are still put on these horrible synthetic hormonal drugs that don't have...   Tahnee: (41:19) Very not good for us.   Lara Briden: (41:21) Yeah. So I have a chapter in Hormone Repair Manual called cycle while you can, making the argument. And I quote, professor Pryor, she said, "The 40s is not a time to take the pill because if you need something, you might as well take real progesterone to get those benefits rather than..." Yeah.   Tahnee: (41:39) Well, I thought that was an interesting point you made, I think it was in that chapter around just to have as many cycles as you can leading up to menopause and even pregnancies and things like how biologically we would've probably had babies until we couldn't. And that's actually quite potentially helps smooth that transition. Again, this is sort of [crosstalk 00:42:04]   Lara Briden: (42:04) Good eye. You have a good memory for all those parts of book. Yeah, it's true. Because-   Tahnee: (42:08) Not as much as I usually do, pregnant brain.   Lara Briden: (42:12) No, I'm impressed by those little parts that you remembered from the book, but yes, that's another example of evolutionary mismatch is our prehistoric ancestors. Well, and even historic, to some extent, would've had quite a different life menstrual history in that likely they would've kept having babies and breastfeeding and severe periods. Potentially what perimenopause would've looked like for them was you have your last baby at 42 or 43 or something, and then you breastfeed for three years and then you just never get your period back. It's just kind of a slow glide into... You come from the low oestrogen stage of breastfeeding into... And so there's no oestrogen withdrawal. You don't necessarily, they wouldn't have been going through these crazy up and down oestrogen roller coasters that we modern women do. So that's another explanation potentially for why they wouldn't have had the symptoms. I say wouldn't have, I mean, they don't have. In modern, I mean, the information we have is modern day hunter gather people like the Hadza don't report symptoms. They report stopping their periods at 45, but they're generally happy about it.   Tahnee: (43:30) Well, I've often fed this to my husband and it's something I think about with all stages of our biological shifts through life, but it shouldn't probably be as hectic as it is. You think about puberty, you think about pregnancy. Some people I talk to, they just have the most awful time. And I think, there has... And I guess that comes back to what you were talking about at the beginning around that mismatch around how we live and what we eat.   Lara Briden: (43:59) And environmental toxins. I mean, we really can't underestimate, environmental toxins are affecting our menstrual cycles and our perimenopause experience, unfortunately. And that's not-   Tahnee: (44:10) On pregnancy too, I'm sure.   Lara Briden: (44:13) ... women's fault. This is why I talk in the book and I'm starting to talk more about our environment, including our food environment, because we're like animals inside an environment. Certainly in terms of diet, we're eating because that's what's around us. I mean, it's not all about making the wrong choices, it's-   Tahnee: (44:34) It's what's available.   Lara Briden: (44:35) Yeah.   Tahnee: (44:37) Well, so on diet, I think in terms of what women... Because I noticed the piece on soy as well, which was interesting because I think we all grow up hearing soy good for menopause and don't really... Thought that was an interesting... You sort of debunked that.   Lara Briden: (44:52) Well, it's not oestrogen. This is the thing with phytoestrogens is their antiestrogen in young women, which can be good. That's not a bad thing. I actually think phytoestrogens are great. And they're somewhat pro oestrogen with menopause, just very briefly on phytoestrogens, and I do talk about it in the book, we're calibrated to them actually. Our ancestors, there's some research to suggest that especially those of us with agrarian ancestors, so ancestors eating grains and legumes, women evolved a higher level of estrodiol, ramped up our oestrogen to sort of overcome the anti antiestrogen effect from phytoestrogen.   Lara Briden: (45:41) So in that sense, we're calibrated to have those in our diet and phytoestrogens actually do have quite a stabilising beneficial effect on all stages of female hormonal health. In part with menopause, one thing they do that's very beneficial is they help to, this is a little bit technical, but they increase something called SHBG or sex hormone binding globulin, which actually helps to prevent some of the testosterone dominance and insulin resistance that can also happen, that I talk about in the book. So just to say, no, soy is not a substitute for oestrogen therapy or anything like that, but phytoestrogens generally are probably quite good for the perimenopause [crosstalk 00:46:26].   Tahnee: (46:26) Which would explain, I guess, why all those herbs that you use in those periods are very estrogenic.   Lara Briden: (46:32) And linseeds. That kind of thing can be very beneficial. So I certainly in trying to debunk that soy is oestrogen, would never want to take away from the fact that phytoestrogens broadly speaking are quite good for us. Yep.   Tahnee: (46:48) And I guess you did speak specifically to the isolates if I'm remembering correctly. So I'm probably putting words in your mouth.   Lara Briden: (46:54) Yeah. No, no. It's [crosstalk 00:46:57]. It's good to [crosstalk 00:46:57].   Tahnee: (46:57) But it's an interest. I do think like with that herbal piece, because there's... I mean, you mentioned black cohosh and there's a few talked about for sleep, which is one of my favourite herbs.   Lara Briden: (47:07) I love it.   Tahnee: (47:08) Yeah, it's a beautiful one. But I thought that was interesting because a lot of women, I think lean toward herbal therapy in the sort of, I guess alternative space. Can you speak a little bit to [crosstalk 00:47:20]?   Lara Briden: (47:19) Yeah. So herbal medicine can be very helpful. So I would say in the perimenopause space... So let's say if we're in the earlier phases of perimenopause, when oestrogen, as we've said is high, going high and then spiking low. There's different strategies to try to help with that. We're trying to stabilise the immune system, so stabilise histamine, that herbal medicine can be very helpful for that. We're trying support the gut so that the high oestrogen can clear safely through the gut, herbal medicine and supplements can help with that. And then there's the whole during the recalibration of the nervous system is where adaptogens can be quite helpful. So I don't name a lot of them, I don't go into a lot of the detail in the book, but things like Ashwagandha. A lot of those have anxiolytic kind of like, I mean calming, tranquillising-   Tahnee: (48:16) Effects. Yeah.   Lara Briden: (48:17) ... stabilising the nervous system. So there's a role for, I use herbal medicines quite a lot. I mean, I guess I do talk about how I've never seen that black cohosh as a standalone single intervention.   Tahnee: (48:33) Yeah. Well you mentioned you don't really use it, [crosstalk 00:48:35].   Lara Briden: (48:36) I've just never seen that it's... But I think as part of the whole programme, including diet, which we can talk about, and no alcohol, which we'll have to talk about, then I think adaptogen type herbal medicines can be part of that for sure and helpful. And phytoestrogen herbal medicines can be helpful in terms of stabilising the oestrogen roller coaster, sheltering from the spikes and at the same time helping with SHBG levels. And so it's lots of mechanisms by which phytoestrogens are helpful.   Tahnee: (49:10) It sounds like it's sort of a tapestry in a weave of maybe using the herbs, but also lifestyle changes. And maybe if we can talk a bit about diet and the alcohol is interesting because of the histamine. So let's jump into that.   Lara Briden: (49:23) Let's do my two big things. For my patients, this is basically what I say. If you could do these two things, there's a 50% chance that's all you're going to need to do. And then's 50% chance you might need some adaptogens or you might need some hormone therapy eventually or different options. But the two things are take magnesium because it's-   Tahnee: (49:45) I was about to say.   Lara Briden: (49:46) ... so stabilising and so-   Tahnee: (49:48) Nervous system, everything.   Lara Briden: (49:49) The nervous system loves it. And in the book, you'll see I talked about using of the magnesium taurine formulas, which is very easy to get in Australia. Taurine is an amino acid but it's also a neurotransmitter that's very calming. It's one of my favourite things for perimenopause, obviously, because I talk about it so much in the book. So, magnesium.   Lara Briden: (50:12) And then the second thing I would have to say quit alcohol. I mean, not forever potentially, but during the thick of it. If you're in that more intense part of perimenopause, phase two heading into phase three, approaching your final period, just removing alcohol entirely can be a game changer. There's several mechanisms by which that helps. I think definitely you talked about alcohol itself destabilises muscles and causes a histamine release. Also alcohol is just, well to put it bluntly, it's toxic to the nervous system, so there's that. I mean, it's just not friendly. It causes intestinal permeability, actually quite profound intestinal permeability when drinking, short term after alcohol intake and depending on the number of drinks.   Lara Briden: (51:14) And then also there's some research around habitual or even just moderate alcohol intake, sort of weakens the circadian rhythm response. So this is where alcohol can disrupt sleep. Not just the night you've had it, but more broadly. So I would invite people if you haven't before, try quitting it for a month and see what happens to your sleep, because it can be really quite interesting.   Lara Briden: (51:43) And the other thing about alcohol, I always try to mention this because for some reason, this is not common knowledge, but alcohol is conclusively linked to a higher risk of breast cancer. Now, the risk is not enormous. I don't want to scare people, but it's very robust in terms of the research is very clear. It's not, oh, we need more research, it's it definitely increases the risk of breast cancer. And as much as oestrogen therapy does in fact, moderate alcohol intake, five or six drinks in a week increases the risk of breast cancer as much as oestrogen therapy does. So it's quite a strong effect.   Tahnee: (52:32) And a fairly, I mean easy one to... I guess it's that sort of thing around a lot of women probably reach for a glass of wine as a nervous system thing. And it's really about reframing how you manage that.   Lara Briden: (52:46) They do, and I see on social media, a lot of messaging around wine for menopause or kind of... It makes me sad because I feel like that's damaging messaging potentially.   Tahnee: (53:05) Magnesium for menopause has more [crosstalk 00:53:07]?   Lara Briden: (53:10) Yeah. This has a better reason to it, I think.   Tahnee: (53:10) I noticed you spoke about neurotransmitters a bit, and that was a super interesting thing around you spoke about it earlier, the brain changes. But you mentioned glycine and a couple of others as well for... And I guess I'm hearing a lot, like the liver needs supporting. Is that sort of a fair thing to say? Because I mean, thinking about histamines, they all end up affecting the liver, and just thinking about these hormonal clearing through the blood, that's going to have to happen with all these changes. It seems like this organ gets to work a bit harder at this time. Is that something-   Lara Briden: (53:40) I mean, generally broadly, yes. And also, I think when we say liver and natural medicine, we do also mean other things too.   Tahnee: (53:49) I'm even thinking Chinese medicine.   Lara Briden: (53:51) Yeah. But from a Chinese medicine perspective actually encompass, definitely actually that's one of the main angles is using another really nice herb is herbal medicine is bupleurum, which I also love for [crosstalk 00:54:02], which is a cooling... I mean, that works on the liver in a TCM perspective. But the liver, I mean maybe correct me or you can agree with this or not, but from a TCM perspective, liver also includes the digestion, the gut and definitely that's... And the whole histamine system is probably sort of liver related I guess if we're trying to sort of put that across the two medical traditions, trying to connect [crosstalk 00:54:30]. Because from a Western medical perspective, liver means different things, but yes, all that kind of stuff.   Lara Briden: (54:37) And also just to bring into it, and we're not going to have time to go into this in detail, but I will just say there's this shift to insulin resistance that happens in the later phases of perimenopause and that can actually cause fatty liver. So that can actually... Now we're talking real liver things. And so I guess one of my takeaways might be if you're 40 something or late 50s or early 50, or at any age after that really, and noticing a significant thickening around the waist, especially if you've got higher cholesterol and fatty liver, and it's really time to find out if you have insulin resistance or not. I've written about that in the book and how testing... You have to test, not just for glucose, because that won't tell you, but you have to try to test insulin if your doctor will do it and then reverse that and [crosstalk 00:55:32].   Tahnee: (55:32) Of your diet, are you recommending more of a paleo-ey kind of a-   Lara Briden: (55:41) I mean, I lean that angle, but I guess I would say what seems to work is finding a way to feel satisfied with the meals, which always involves mostly about protein. Getting satisfied, having a functioning digestion and yes, liver to some extent. And then being able to, because you feel better and you're on magnesium and feeling better. That's when it's time to say no to both alcohol and concentrated sugar. So I mean-   Tahnee: (56:11) Dessert.   Lara Briden: (56:13) Dessert, [crosstalk 00:56:13] like a soft drink and fruits. This always becomes a tricky topic as people think... I talk about high dose fructose and how that research is really clear that that's bad for insulin sensitivity. And then people are like, "Well, do you mean fruit is bad?" It's like, no. So whole fruit is fine, just to be clear, but desserts, full on ice cream and fruit juice and date balls and-   Tahnee: (56:37) I'm pregnant. I know all about dessert.   Lara Briden: (56:38) Yeah. The thing is, even then it's a nuanced conversation because some people can have desserts and get away with it. And it depends on your insulin sensitivity. It depends on so many things. And then there's different desserts. There's lots of really delicious treat, things you can make with low sugar. They don't have to be... So I don't want to make a blanket statement [crosstalk 00:57:03].   Tahnee: (57:02) Demonising it, but-   Lara Briden: (57:03) No, no, no. I mean, but it is [crosstalk 00:57:07].   Tahnee: (57:06) Well, I think what you're really pointing to is you want to avoid these things that are going to spike the blood sugar dramatically. Because if you don't have the capacity to process-   Lara Briden: (57:15) It's partly about spiking the blood sugar, it's actually more about some actual physiological damage that high dose fructose does to the liver. That's kind of how we got on this topic actually.   Tahnee: (57:25) Do you mean the actual molecule fructose?   Lara Briden: (57:30) Above a certain threshold. So it's really-   Tahnee: (57:33) And that's what you're looking at [crosstalk 00:57:34].   Lara Briden: (57:37) The threshold is different for different people, and at different ages, and in different situations. And some people, especially people who are very active and have a healthy gut and liver and everything's good. They can probably have fruit juice and it's fine, it's not a problem. But for people with insulin resistance, because there's been a lot of confusion. I just get that from my own patients. They might be for example, very scared to eat potatoes because they've heard that that's... but still then hungry, so then bingeing on like a date bar, slice paleo dessert after dinner. That is-   Tahnee: (58:18) Backwards.   Lara Briden: (58:19) That's back to front. This is where I talk about getting full. I have a new blog post called the power of eating enough, which is protein. I actually mentioned potatoes by name because they're actually quite filling.   Tahnee: (58:28) It's a good starch. Yeah.   Lara Briden: (58:29) They're quite good. And then feeling good and then being like, "No, I'm not going to have that fruit juice. I'm not going to have that SoBe. I don't need that. I might have a little dark chocolate or some fresh fruit or some frozen berries or something. And that's enough for me."   Tahnee: (58:46) So that's drilling down on getting tested if you can around insulin.   Lara Briden: (58:50) Yes.   Tahnee: (58:50) And that's really, you're looking at symptoms of weight gain and you said this in the book a lot, specifically this middle area, this-   Lara Briden: (58:57) Yes. Specifically that apple shaped around the middle. And just to point out for everyone listening, some thickening around the waist is inevitable with menopause. So that's just-   Tahnee: (59:10) So don't get too stressed out.   Lara Briden: (59:12) It's just a fact. I mean, it's a hormonal... How it's interesting actually, because I heard this interview. There's a scientist who just did this quite groundbreaking study debunking the idea that our metabolism reduces with age, which was quite controversial. But I heard an interviewed by a friend of mine actually. And he said specifically, he gave the example, he said, "Well, there can be other things going on. Like for example, at menopause, there's a whole hormonal redistribution of fat. So this is a change in body shape." This is what I'm saying, this is inevitable to some extent. So young women have an hourglass. Well some, the kind of normal healthy figure is hourglass figure. That's estrodial, that's oestrogen fat on the bum and a narrow waist. That is what that hormonal profile does.   Lara Briden: (01:00:05) When we shift with menopause, even on hormone therapy actually to some extent, there is a shift, we never take as much estrodiol as you would've or we made when we're 25, you wouldn't do that. And then we get this shift to what I talk about in the books, sort of a testosterone dominance. It's a shift to a more male body shape, and it's going to happen to some degree to everyone. So don't worry about it too much. But if there's significant waking happening around the middle and progressing more to a strong apple shape, that is insulin resistance. I hope that... Yeah.   Tahnee: (01:00:43) And I mean, the other thing you mentioned getting looked at and tested is Hashtimoto's autoimmune, which I thought was really interesting because I've had a few friends who have had that be triggered by pregnancy or maybe postpartum and I thought it was interesting that you [crosstalk 01:00:59].   Lara Briden: (01:00:58) That's a hormonal transition state. I don't know how much more time we have, but I'll just say-   Tahnee: (01:01:03) Well, we don't have much, but I've wanted to say that word that you said in the book, it's... What did you call that [crosstalk 01:01:10].   Lara Briden: (01:01:09) Critical window.   Tahnee: (01:01:10) Critical window, yes. Here it is, critical window for health. I thought that was a super important concept.   Lara Briden: (01:01:16) So this it's a critical window. Perimenopause is a critical window for health because it's a hormonal transition like puberty, postpartum. Postpartum is another critical window and perimenopause. And what that means by critical window is if things start to go off the rails health wise during a critical window, you're potentially going to skew a lot more in a bad direction than if things go a little bit off the rails when you're in a more stable state, if that makes sense

Today is International Womens Day and I want to put out an extra episode with a conversation I just had with Jane Hardwicke Collings, a former midwife and the founder of the school of shamanic woman craft. Jane is affected by the flooding in NSW, Australia but not as badly as my old home town and area of the Northern Rivers. We both feel deeply for the community we know and love and want to offer our help to them, and to pregnant and birthing women from all over the world faced with war and natural disasters leaving them birthing in crisis. This episode will go into the full process of labour and birth and how to keep it as safe and physiological as possible in the midst of crisis as well as instruction and guidance for All Women around the world to offer their moon blood to call in peace and safety for all sentient beings on this earth. We ask you to please share this episode. It will only take a minute of your time to share it on social media. Today is International Womens Day. We celebrate the strength, resilience and generosity of women. I celebrate you for being a woman in my community. I thank you for helping me help women in crisis by sharing this episode. Blessings on your hearts Want to connect with Jane. Find her on Instagram as @janehardwickecollings Find out about Mamatoto support for birth in crisis on instagram @hygieiahealthltd Download Jane's Unassisted Birth Checklist >>> HERE

Content Information/Warning This episode contains swearing and references to birth, disempowerment/oppression of women, sexual experiences, menstruation, generational and childhood trauma, self harm and eating disorders.   Reclaiming Menarche The First Menstrual Blood; Ways to Honour and Heal. Join Grace as she speaks with Australian author and teacher Jane Hardwicke Collings around the importance of Menarche, the first menstrual blood. Jane is a grandmother, former homebirth midwife for 30 years, a teacher, a writer and menstrual educator. Jane gives workshops on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause. Jane founded and runs The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international Women's Mysteries School. You can read more about Jane and purchase her new book Blood Rites and find further information on the texts mentioned during the episode (The Herstory and Becoming A Woman) at www.janehardwickecollings.com   You can read more about Grace and her work at www.withgracefrome.co.uk   Title Music JuliusH - Dance of The Witches    

Caitlin Priday has been devoted to the path of women's healing and birth work, weaving her threads of medicine through nourishing food and ceremony into future generations of women for over a decade now. A Kinesiologist, full-spectrum birth worker, shamanic practitioner, women's work facilitator, ceremonialist, and co-author of the brilliant book, Nourishing Those Who Nurture (More than a Food Bible for new mother's). Caitlin is an embodied full feminine force of integrity, supporting, teaching, honouring, and witnessing women as they traverse the many seasons of life, meet their shadows, and journey through sacred rites of passage. There is currently a remembering, a renaissance of women's work and birth work, rising up in communities globally. A new (but ancient) paradigm of birth work is emerging, with increasing numbers of women choosing to transition through the realms of birth at home while being supported and held by birth workers like Caitlin. Everywhere women are reclaiming birth, and with it comes both the shadow work and generational healing.   In this full spectrum conversation, Tahnee and Caitlin journey deep into the birthing portal exploring all facets of doula work, postpartum planning, the inextricable relationship between fear and pain, birth as a rite of passage, and why we need more advocacy and education around birth. Caitlin discusses her powerful ceremonial work with the obsidian egg, womb boundaries, her upcoming workshops, and the sacred act of living life as ceremony.    "I feel comfortable in my experience. I don't want to escape my feelings or leak my energy somewhere to get something back. And that is what women, I believe, need to learn through their lives; How to have strong womb boundaries and be firm in themselves. I think this is how femininity will heal. When women can be comfortable with being in their bodies and being firm in their womb boundaries".   - Caitlin Priday      Caitlin and Tahnee discuss: Birth work. Postpartum care. Rites of passage. Caitlin's doula work. Closing of the bones. Kinesiology and birth. Integrating the shadow. The history of doula work. The potent energy of obsidian. Working with the obsidian egg. Honouring the maiden season. Community and supporting the mother. Father's and their important role in birth. Shadow work; Identifying and working with it. Rebozo; A way of life and how it is used in birth.   Who is Caitlin Priday? Caitlin Priday is a Byron Shire-based Kinesiologist, Shamanic Practioner, Doula, Ceremonialist, and Co-Author of Nourishing Those Who Nurture: More Than A Food Bible for New Mum's. She is passionate about supporting women in all facets of life, from pre-conception, fertility, birth, postpartum, and beyond. With vigorous training and dedication over a ten-year period, Caitlin has learned the teachings of strong energetic boundaries, discernment, and psychic hygiene and how to hold these within everyday life. She prides herself on holding a sacred, grounded space no matter what the container is for and is a fierce advocate for women to reclaim their voices, bodies, and wombs for themselves, their lineage, and their descendants.   CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST    Resources: Rebozo  Obsidian egg  Caitlin's website Caitlin's Instagram Sharon Bolt's website Mother Tree Creations Catering Empress and the Dragon workshop Caitlin Priday Shamanic Energy Training Nourishing Those Who Nurture Book   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:00) Hi, everybody. Welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. It's Tahnee here today with Caitlin Priday. Really excited to have her on the podcast. She's a business partner actually to Tahlia, who we had on last year. They have this amazing book called Nourishing Those Who Nurture and I actually saw it under a few Christmas trees this year, Caitlin, so you'll be happy to hear that.   Caitlin Priday: (00:20) Oh good.   Tahnee: (00:21) Yeah, and she's also a kinesiologist, shamanic practitioner, doula, does ceremony and she wrote all the beautiful recipes in the book as well as contributed to the content. So I'm really stoked to have you here today, Caitlin. Thanks for joining us.   Caitlin Priday: (00:37) Thank you so much.   Tahnee: (00:39) Yeah. So great to have you here. We only recently met, but I just was so interested in our brief chat. Your story, your personal journey, just sounds so interesting. So I was hoping, if you don't mind, if you could share a little bit about how you got to be here, writing the book that you just wrote, and what was your kind of initiation into this world that you now inhabit?   Caitlin Priday: (01:03) Oh God. I feel like [inaudible 00:01:06].   Tahnee: (01:05) You start it, "I was born in..."   Caitlin Priday: (01:09) But I don't like that. Well, I'm a Shire local, so I feel like the Shire kids have always got some kind of alternative edge. So yeah, I was born in the Byron Shire. I've travelled the world for a little bit in 2012 and kind of started getting into spiritual awakening, I guess. It was that year that everyone started opening up to everything then. And I was just travelling around India and Canada and Mexico and just trying out all types of different things.   Caitlin Priday: (01:40) I actually got into to more of the shamanic aspect of things by working with cacao in Guatemala in 2012. So that was actually a really big part of my journey and my story. But when I got back to Australia, in 2014, I met my teacher, who's still my teacher now, Sharon Bolt. Her business is called Shamanic Energy Training and she also goes under the business of the Temple of Mythical Magick now as well.   Caitlin Priday: (02:10) So I started working with her, and that was more in the realm of workshops, women's work, ceremonial work in the sense of working with cacao and blue lotus and different plants like that. So I got quite thrust in quite early. She loves to tell the story that I told her that I could cook, but I couldn't really. But I'd told her that I could cook so that I could get a job with her basically, which is quite funny because that's-   Tahnee: (02:41) [crosstalk 00:02:41].   Caitlin Priday: (02:41) Yeah, it was... I was a sneaky young lass.   Tahnee: (02:42) What you just did for your book?   Caitlin Priday: (02:45) Pretty much. Yeah, so that actually was the baseline of learning how to cook and getting into recipes and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, back then I was only 22 when I met her. So I spent pretty much like the better part of my maidenhood working with her and just learning space holding through workshops and just being immersed in retreats and that kind of thing. So interfacing with people a lot, learning a lot about energy, learning a lot about how to be a good space holder, how to be grounded and also how to work through my shit...   Tahnee: (03:20) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (03:20) ... through that mirroring. So I kind of went a bit backwards. A lot of people go as a practitioner first and then go into group work later, but I worked in group work first and now I've moved into practitioner work. The thread that's always been the same is wanting to assist women. So, that's quite a full spectrum thing. I like working with women that want to get pregnant all the way through to pregnancy and then in postpartum, which is my real deep passion and commitment now. And that's how the book also came about because Tahlia and I met around that same time that I met Sharon and we just had a really deep bond, and then Tahlia and I were like, "Let's do this book, because postpartum is such a gap." So yeah, it's a pretty broad thing, but I'm predominantly now a kinesiologist and I work one-on-one. Yeah.   Tahnee: (04:13) Yeah. Where do you think that drive to work with women came from? Was it something you observed in your community or yourself or just a calling or?   Caitlin Priday: (04:22) To be honest, I'm very much a shadow worker and it actually came out of wounding. It came out of feeling the wounds of my experiences with the sisterhood and also the wound with my mother, so that deep mother wound and that deep desire to connect with women on an intimate, true, authentic level. But I had had a lot of wounding around that in the past. So it was through being thrust into environments with women that I realised that that wound was there and I felt like being able to heal that wound would be through interfacing and connecting with women in a deep way. Yeah.   Tahnee: (05:04) Can you talk a little bit to shadow work because I love this topic, but I don't think we've actually really talked about it on the podcast. I'm trying to think maybe a little bit with Jane Hardwicke Collings. But yeah, I guess I'm just interested in your take on that, like how you... You said that's sort of the work that you do or your personal journey. So yeah, what does that mean to you? How do you kind of work through that in your life?   Caitlin Priday: (05:33) Definitely a shadow dweller. I definitely am. I mean, don't get me wrong, I-   Tahnee: (05:39) [crosstalk 00:05:39].   Caitlin Priday: (05:40) Yeah. No, I find that terrain of the underworld, like that really mythical aspect of the feminine which is like that Persephone journey. Persephone was in the Underworld and that's how seasons were created on Earth because Demeter, her mother, went through seasons because of her daughter Persephone being in the Underworld with Hades.   Tahnee: (06:00) Being taken away.   Caitlin Priday: (06:02) Yeah, exactly. And I'm really view my life as a seasonal journey and a cyclical kind of journey. And obviously that's the same with menstrual cycles, but that's another topic. So I really honour the shadow when it needs to come to surface. I think a lot of it has got to do with working with Sharon. Sharon's very much a shadow woman and a shadow worker and it's helped me realise that shadows are not enemies, shadows are friends. And so I've discovered this more in going to my own therapy as well, learning more how to bring the shadow up and out of that shadow and bring it to light and learn its mysteries and its power and help integrate that, and that's how we become more of a whole and integrated person.   Caitlin Priday: (06:50) When we say we don't want to be something and we shove it away, that's when that thing will come up and try to dominate us even more. So within the feminine psyche there's a lot of that shadow work as well, like in women's work and women's workshops, if people are familiar with that kind of world, there's a lot of promotion around the dark feminine or the shadow feminine. Even in motherhood, there's a lot around the dark mother. So I think-   Tahnee: (07:20) Kali.   Caitlin Priday: (07:21) Kali, yeah, that kind of thing.   Tahnee: (07:22) I was thinking about the sort of eating heads. Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (07:25) Yeah, even like the [crosstalk 00:07:26] mother-   Tahnee: (07:28) Well, how do you define shadow for yourself? Like, is it the stuff that you avoid or feel triggered by or is it just anything in the sort of subconscious? How do you define that in terms of your work?   Caitlin Priday: (07:44) If something triggers me, then I definitely know that I'm looking at a shadow. Obviously you've got family stuff, that's a perfect place to do shadow work is just go stay with your family for a week. I just-   Tahnee: (07:57) You think your spiritual, go hang out with your family.   Caitlin Priday: (08:00) Exactly. I just had my family here for three weeks, so I'm just like decompressing.   Tahnee: (08:05) [crosstalk 00:08:05].   Caitlin Priday: (08:07) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (08:07) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (08:07) Actually, it's a good point though, because my mum and I ended up having a fruitful conversation after she stayed, which was her telling me that she gets triggered by me because she sees so much of herself in me. And I think that's a really good way to look at the shadow is that like when you're having that mirror come up and place that thing in front of you, you've got to look at where that is unintegrated inside of yourself that it's becoming a problem. And so we've gone into that a lot in more of the shamanic workshops that we've done with Sharon, but also in our women's work, The Empress And The Dragon, which is the three month women's programme which I'll be running up here soon.   Caitlin Priday: (08:49) We work with the obsidian egg. So the obsidian egg is known for bringing up shadows and known for bringing up mirrors and triggers. And we work through that in the workshop on the weekend and the months after. Because we want to be able to bring things up and have a look at them, but I'm really a big believer on there being a firm and held container for when shadows come up.   Tahnee: (09:14) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Especially when you're learning to work with that energy, I think, because-   Caitlin Priday: (09:20) Yeah, definitely.   Tahnee: (09:21) ... it's powerful stuff.   Caitlin Priday: (09:22) Yeah.   Tahnee: (09:24) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (09:24) Yeah, I'm not about going into shadow work and flinging your energy all around and getting crazy on it. Shadows are things that we learn how to tame and that's a very Daoist perspective, which I know you're really into as well. And that's the background of our training as well, is Daoism, so learning how to do it with containment and befriending and also a right relationship. Because when we don't, when we allow an emotion to own us, we are just being dominated by it. So it's [crosstalk 00:09:57].   Tahnee: (09:56) It's a possession at times.   Caitlin Priday: (09:58) Yeah, exactly. So it's learning how to not allow shadows to possess us, but for us to find how to dance in a relationship with them. So yeah, I think shadows are mostly a mirror.   Tahnee: (10:12) Yeah. I'd like to go jump back to that workshop quickly.   Caitlin Priday: (10:17) Yeah.   Tahnee: (10:17) You're talking about... This is an in-person one that you do.   Caitlin Priday: (10:22) Yeah. We also do them online.   Tahnee: (10:25) Yeah, because I thought I saw on your socials that you had online versions.   Caitlin Priday: (10:28) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.   Tahnee: (10:29) So for people that are interested in this, it's learning to work with jade eggs and energy practices. Can you explain a bit about the container of the work [crosstalk 00:10:37]. Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (10:37) Yeah. We work with obsidian eggs, so jade-   Tahnee: (10:41) Oh sorry, yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (10:41) No, that's okay.   Tahnee: (10:42) It's my brain.   Caitlin Priday: (10:43) She's got baby brain, everyone. Baby brain.   Tahnee: (10:46) [inaudible 00:10:46]. Yes, eggs. I should have just... yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (10:49) It's all right.   Tahnee: (10:52) Those things in your vagina that you move around and helps with itching.   Caitlin Priday: (10:57) Exactly.   Tahnee: (10:58) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (10:58) So obsidian a bit unique. Obsidian comes from the Mexican protocol. It's quite strong. I discovered the egg in Mexico about 10 years ago. And then I came back to Australia with it and had to contact for it for a while. And then I told Sharon about, and she said, "Oh my God, I've had this programme written for ages." And she'd actually been told by a psychic that she'd write a programme around the egg. And she was like, "Oh no, no. I don't want to do that." Because she'd worked with the jade egg when she was a Daoist monk and had gone, "No, that's not for me." But when I brought the Mexican egg in, she got really excited because Sharon's actually Mayan, so it was very lineage aligned for her.   Caitlin Priday: (11:45) We kind of started working with egg ourselves and we were like, "Okay, this is really powerful." And so we wanted to honour the protocol of working with the obsidian egg, which is very different to jade. Jade works with vaginal strength, also just like pelvic floor, sexual energy, that kind of thing. But we are really firm believers on if you don't have a cleansed and clear womb before you get into doing sexual and central practises with the energy body, you actually can amplify a lot of the wounds that you already have there.   Caitlin Priday: (12:18) And the obsidian really, really is like a cleansing and clearing stone. So we put it in at nighttime and it helps bring up the subconscious. So the subconscious will come up via dreaming and it's also a mirror stone, so it will... It's very special the way it works. It will bring people in and out of your life to help you realise what you're working on deeper. Like pretty much every time, at least four or five people in the group will have an ex-boyfriend pop up. Every time. It's magical, because... It's a womb Buddha. The womb broom, that's what we call it. It helps clear the womb.   Caitlin Priday: (13:01) So things will stop popping up, and it will also amplify things, like I was saying before, like sisterhood wounds or the mother wound or where we're unstable in our energy bodies, that kind of thing. Because obsidian really grounds you into your body. So people that disassociate easily, it's a really good stone for that. It helps people like come firmly into the body. So yeah, that's been one of the most potent tools I've had for doing shadow work because we've been working with it for about five years now and we've had over 500 women go through the programme and it's also developed into working with other eggs as well. Working with rose is the second part of the programme, and then working with amethyst is the third part of the programme.   Tahnee: (13:44) Beautiful.   Caitlin Priday: (13:48) Yeah, it's a fully embodied programme.   Tahnee: (13:50) So kind of womb, heart and then third eye. Is that what [crosstalk 00:13:53]? Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (13:54) Yeah. Well, it's very Daoist, like I was saying. So the Daoists actually work with the three cauldrons. Yeah. So you have the womb caldron, the heart caldron and then the upper dantian, which is the pineal gland. So it's like a full embodiment programme.   Tahnee: (14:09) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Caitlin Priday: (14:10) Yeah.   Tahnee: (14:10) But that's this Empress and Dragon or that's another [crosstalk 00:14:13]?   Caitlin Priday: (14:13) Yeah. No, that's The Empress And The Dragon. I just specifically run an obsidian... I'd love to run the other ones at some point, but I'm just an obsidian woman.   Tahnee: (14:21) My shadow friend.   Caitlin Priday: (14:22) That's what I am.   Tahnee: (14:24) Well, I'm so interested that... You know there's heaps of obsidian here in Byron, like in the hills?   Caitlin Priday: (14:28) Exactly.   Tahnee: (14:29) Yeah. So it's [crosstalk 00:14:30].   Caitlin Priday: (14:30) Obsidian woman.   Tahnee: (14:31) Yeah. And we lived on a property with a really deep underground obsidian reservoir and man, whew, that was a time.   Caitlin Priday: (14:41) Yeah.   Tahnee: (14:43) Okay. It was like, we conceived our child, but also just like the psychic kind of downloads and the awakening on that land was really powerful.   Caitlin Priday: (14:53) Yeah.   Tahnee: (14:53) It's an amazing stone.   Caitlin Priday: (14:57) Well, you know, on that point, thanks for bringing that up, that's why people come to the Byron Shire. Generally they'll come and have... They'll break up with their partner or they'll get pregnant, or they have a massive awakening.   Tahnee: (15:09) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (15:10) Obsidian is volcanic, and obviously good things are formed under pressure, like diamonds are. It's the same with obsidian portals. High obsidian places are usually places of deep transformation, like Bali's obsidian.   Tahnee: (15:25) Hawaii area.   Caitlin Priday: (15:25) Yeah, Mexico, Mount Shasta.   Tahnee: (15:27) Shanghai.   Caitlin Priday: (15:28) And they're the places that people are drawn to in order to hear. So once you pop that inside of your body, you have the possibility for deep transformation.   Tahnee: (15:38) Well, I will definitely link to that in the show notes for your upcoming one. So you've got one coming up in the Shire.   Caitlin Priday: (15:43) In March.   Tahnee: (15:43) And then in you guys run them online sort of regularly, is that?   Caitlin Priday: (15:47) I've got one here in March. I've got one in Bellingen for the first time in April.   Tahnee: (15:53) Cool.   Caitlin Priday: (15:53) And then I'll run one online, and Melbourne if the... If Mr. Andrews permits, I will come to Melbourne.   Tahnee: (16:02) Throw some obsidian at him and... That's unkind. Maybe it might help.   Caitlin Priday: (16:05) Hmm.   Tahnee: (16:10) Yeah, I'm interested in that link you have with Mexico, because I think your book was one the first I saw where... I mean I've heard a lot of postpartum books, and you actually had Rebozo in there.   Caitlin Priday: (16:21) Yeah.   Tahnee: (16:22) The tying and... I'd read about that online but never in someone's actual postpartum books. I thought that was cool. So could you speak a little bit about that impact on the kind of Mayan lineage has had on you and your work. And obviously is Sharon's into it, that's obviously [crosstalk 00:16:37].   Caitlin Priday: (16:36) Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting thing. I don't know how it's happened. I lived in Central America for a year. And it's funny, without having any cultural appropriation, that's definitely not my style, and I love having right relationship with all indigenous rights of passage and ceremonies and all of that. But it's interesting if I revise my journey to getting here, how much the Mexican practices have impacted me as a person. I think living there and being able to be in such a deep connection and honouring of the land really helped me understand their magic and their way. But yeah, obviously I worked with cacao. That's definitely one of my master plants. I don't work with-   Tahnee: (17:21) With Keith, right?   Caitlin Priday: (17:21) With Keith, yeah.   Tahnee: (17:24) Just for those listening, we were both in the same... Probably not the same time. I was a 2015, I think. But yeah, in San Marcos La Laguna in Guatemala. So it's a great cacao shaman who's very well known around the world.   Caitlin Priday: (17:40) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.   Tahnee: (17:41) So you worked with him or you [crosstalk 00:17:43].   Caitlin Priday: (17:43) Yeah, I worked with him a little bit, but I also mostly just had cacao all the time, which I don't do anymore. I don't recommend it, definitely fried my adrenals. And I've been on my SuperFeast Jing Herbs since then trying to put myself back together.   Tahnee: (17:59) Yeah, absolutely.   Caitlin Priday: (17:59) Yeah.   Tahnee: (18:02) Especially the ceremonial cacao, it's really... I get high off it. I can't touch it really.   Caitlin Priday: (18:04) No. A tiny little bit for me, and oh gosh. Anyway, I made chocolates and all that kind of thing. I've had my massive journey with cacao, and I love it dearly but I don't need to indulge in it so much anymore.   Caitlin Priday: (18:17) But yeah, as I've gone more into my birth work, I found that that Mexican lineage has really come through. And it was no surprise that I found a teacher that is Mayan, like very Latino. She's got her other practises as well, but having that Mayan thread in there has been really deep and resonating for me. But with the birth work, yeah, Rebozo... Look, I really am not an expert on Rebozo. I still have a long way to go. I really honour the Rebozo and how it's even created. It's like all of the South American and Central American countries, like they have their own special weave. So their weave is like their creative signature. And so most Rebozos will never be the same because it's created by a woman whose signature is that weave or that colouring. So Rebozos-   Tahnee: (19:12) Could you just even quickly explain what it's because I was just thinking that-   Caitlin Priday: (19:12) Oh yeah, sorry. Of course.   Tahnee: (19:13) ... people probably don't even know. That's my bad.   Caitlin Priday: (19:16) Mm-hmm (affirmative). No way, that's also my bad.   Tahnee: (19:20) Like, "What even is this thing?"   Caitlin Priday: (19:20) Yeah. So they're actually this beautiful long piece of fabric. They're quite thick. And like I was saying, they all have different colours and different weaves and designs on them. And Rebozo basically means like the way of life. It is such an integral part of Mexican women's lives. Like they use their Rebozo to carry shopping, they tie it up. They use it to tie babies on. They use it in birth work. And it is used in postpartum a bit, that's with closing of the bones, which I can go into in a moment. But in birth itself, it's a labour technique.   Caitlin Priday: (20:00) Again, I've learnt, but I'm not fully, fully trained. So it's not something that I necessarily offer because I'm really integral in wanting to understand something before I go and put it on the table for myself. So I'm by no means a Rebozo expert. But they do, in Mexico, use it for helping if interventions kind of starting to creep in, or baby's not moving or there's a lot of techniques that they can do. They call it sifting, so they'll pop the Rebozo underneath the womb and the woman will be on all-fours, and they'll sift the Rebozo.   Tahnee: (20:42) [crosstalk 00:20:42].   Caitlin Priday: (20:42) Yeah, to get the hips kind of jiggling and open. It's a really integral part of their work. If people do want purchase Rebozos, I highly recommend finding a really good source for them because some of them are just getting pumped out of China and if we're going to use indigenous tools, we want to make sure that we give back properly. So yeah, so that's Rebozo. But we use it in closing the bones as well, which is a postpartum technique where we basically help put a woman back together, so that's physically and also energetically. It's kind of like helping shut down the story of the birth. Because there so many women I've heard, I haven't had a baby yet, but obviously I work with women a lot in this realm. Most women say, "I have to reach out to the stars to find my baby and come back with my baby before I could birth it," which I'm sure you can definitely resonate with. And so-   Tahnee: (21:40) It's a portal, that's for sure.   Caitlin Priday: (21:43) Yeah, exactly. Where there's a portal... mm-hmm (affirmative). I see closing the bones, you know, shut the portal down.   Tahnee: (21:47) Yeah, well it's like any... We've both done plant medicine and it's like you don't just walk away at the end of the journey. You have to have that ceremonial ending and then beginning the integration process. I think that birth is the same, right?   Caitlin Priday: (22:05) 100%   Tahnee: (22:05) We have to honour it with ceremony and... yeah. So you work... because we've spoken a bit ourselves about your doula work.   Caitlin Priday: (22:13) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (22:13) So you offer that sort of pre, I guess, natal support or during the prenatal period, and then also into maybe the pregnant period. Prenatals before that, yes? I don't know what I'm talking about anymore. And then you also do of this aftercare, so can you speak a little bit about your work with that and how you work with women and I guess what you observe as a... Because it's interesting, I think. I actually don't know that many doulas who haven't... You and I both know, Oni. There's a couple of people I know that haven't kids, but most women seem to come to this work after they've had their own children. And so it's interesting there's all these young women in this area really picking up the torch, I think. So yeah, I'd love to hear your take on all of that.   Caitlin Priday: (22:59) Yeah. Well, I think like for me at the moment, I definitely feel like I'm not completely maiden anymore. I feel like I'm transitioning more into mother, but I've had the exuberance of the maiden for the last 10 years and mothers need maidens. And I'm very, very into helping other maidens in my community learn how to look after mothers properly, because mothers are the backbone of our society. So that's been my driving force as a birth worker to really, really help mothers be strong and able to support this next generation. So that's kind of my passion, to make sure that this next generation are coming through in a strong and supported way, like in a village.   Caitlin Priday: (23:41) I can't really explain why that's been my thing, but that's just my heart calling, so I'm just... That's what I've followed. But postpartum kind of comes naturally. I think having that backbone of cooking and also space holding and helping people just in workshops and that kind of thing, I think it's easy to see where a gap can be filled. And postpartum is such a gap. It's just horrific. We think that we're doing well in the West, but you have to just turn to the East and see how well they're doing it to see how much more we could be doing.   Caitlin Priday: (24:18) Initially with the book, that's what Tahlia and I talked about a lot, because I was there with Tahlia when she was in her preconception period with her firstborn. And then I also was at her secondborn's birth, Ochre, and helped with postpartum as well. It really became the fuel to our fire, and just realising that the village is really... Not even necessarily missing, but it actually needs to be retaught.   Caitlin Priday: (24:43) There's something about our culture that because we haven't experienced or we haven't seen our mothers experiencing it, we don't know what to do. And so we need other people who say, "This is what you do and this is how we care for them." So essentially, that's how the book was created, like a really easy go-to manual for that. But in postpartum, I'm all about nourishing, and that's across the board, but predominantly with food. Yeah.   Tahnee: (25:11) It's super interesting you say that about the cultural piece, because I had a friend have twins recently and another friend of ours, who's in her maybe late forties, she... I said, "Oh look, I've set up a meal train." And this person was like, "A what?" And I was like, "A meal train." She was like, "I've never heard of this." And I was like, "Well, we all make food and bring it to the family." And she was like, "Oh, when I had kids that wasn't... you didn't do that." And I was like, "What do people do?" She's like, "I know you just ate... Your husband made food or..." And I was like, "Oh."   Tahnee: (25:43) It's such an interesting... It's only been... She's what, 10 years older than me? That still wasn't even on her radar when she had children. And yeah, I think there's stuff we really take for granted, especially in the Shire, where there is such an awareness, I think, of postpartum being important. It's still not perfect, but it's getting better.   Caitlin Priday: (26:03) Yeah.   Tahnee: (26:04) Yeah. I think there's this real lack of awareness of... I think when there's those big changes, like grief births, people often back away.   Caitlin Priday: (26:12) Yes.   Tahnee: (26:12) It's almost like, "I'll give you space and then I'll kind of lean in later."   Caitlin Priday: (26:17) Yes.   Tahnee: (26:19) It's almost like a reminder to people that it's actually really great to lean in and maybe they don't know what they need or what to ask for, but bring them food, bring them a treat, make them a cake, you know? There's some sort of basic things we can do. And that's what I loved about the book. You guys had some stuff around boundary setting, which I thought was really awesome, with families. It had all the great recipes. You talked about different ceremonial aspects around whether it's closing the bones or any of those kind of things.   Caitlin Priday: (26:46) Yeah.   Tahnee: (26:46) I think that sort of stuff more and more... You know, bringing that awareness through is so important. And it's kind of what your work is about, like with this shamanic dimension of your work. It's like we need to honour... You're feeling that transition already, like your maiden to motherhood transition. So many women I speak to don't even observe that change until they're a couple of years postpartum and they're like, "Oh my god, I'm a totally different person."   Caitlin Priday: (27:09) 100%.   Tahnee: (27:11) Yeah. Have you been tuning into that through your practice or is it just like an awakening that you're feeling that motherhood is calling? Or what's that feeling like for you?   Caitlin Priday: (27:22) Well, it's interesting that you just brought up this like people backing away and death, and birth. Because I've always wanted to be a mother, but when my father died three years ago, that's when I really, really realised more about that nature of death and birth being such a similar portal, very much not like Hollywood, as we are all shown in the movies. Very gentle, humbling. Yeah, very different, very ceremonial act. So that really concreted that for me. Yeah, it's been hanging around for a while, but what I'm starting to realise more is, and I wrote a post about this the other day, is again honouring that season within, like honouring the maiden while she still is here. And by doing that, that's like having fun, enjoying moments of silence, doing all of things that I want to do because I watch my friends around me not be able to do that anymore.   Caitlin Priday: (28:30) And in society, I think we have a lot of lost mothers who have a tendency to hold onto the maiden because they haven't been celebrated or witnessed in that shift or that rite of passage correctly. And so like you're saying, in postpartum it's four years down the track and they're like, "Oh my god, what just happened to me?" So I try to really honour those seasons within myself, but I also like to facilitate that for other people. And as much as closing of the bones is a postpartum practice, there are some people who open up closing the bones for people that have gone death as well. And so I even experienced my own closing in the bones on the grief and the death around my father to help close that portal down as well. So yeah, motherhood is something that I think about and I feel like I do embody that archetype of the mother for many people. But I do like to honour the maiden as well because she has a place and I don't want to be a mother in a few years that's still trying to hold on to my maidenhood.   Caitlin Priday: (29:35) You know, obviously we have an internal maiden that lives within us, as we do a chrone and a maga, which is the menopausal season. But when I become a mother, I want to be embodiment of the mother, not holding onto aspects of myself that don't need to have the stage. You know?   Tahnee: (29:54) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I think it's really interesting. And I remember when I was pregnant with my first child, my daughter, feeling this... It was a grief, but it was like a poignant grief. It was kind of like, "Oh, I'm changing seasons." We talk about that in TCM, like the full, the autumn season, like things falling away and the sort of dying that needs to up for something new to happen. And I think our culture is so afraid of death in all of its forms that we kind of lose the beauty of those transitions and those seasons. And motherhood is a death. You do have to, to some extent, kill the person you were before to become the person you're becoming. It's not a bad thing, and it doesn't mean you don't integrate. But it's like, yeah, there's a bit of a... Well, it's certainly been my experience and I've really enjoyed it. But I think it's something that we...   Tahnee: (30:53) We conceived this child, my partner got the call to go to Sydney. His father was dying. His father died. You know, we were at the funeral within... I think I was six weeks pregnant or something.   Caitlin Priday: (31:03) Yeah.   Tahnee: (31:05) And it's just like there's something for me that's so beautiful about that transition, even though it could be... Like people were saying to us, "Oh my God, I can't believe what you're going through, and you're pregnant." I'm like, "It's actually... " You know. My partner did all the death care. He washed his father, he dressed him, he cut his beard. And his ability to hold that, that's the kind of... that I'm birthing with this person, it's such a... and that I'm getting to share this goodbye and this ritual with him. I think it's something really powerful about that and that's given me a lot of confidence and faith in the other side of the coin, right, which is birth.   Caitlin Priday: (31:44) Yeah.   Tahnee: (31:44) Birth and death are the same portal really.   Caitlin Priday: (31:47) Yeah.   Tahnee: (31:48) So yeah, I think those death and grief teachings are very powerful when it comes to motherhood. And that's what I think people don't get, like of having a doula or someone around who can support that process if you aren't someone who maybe naturally is drawn to that work on your own.   Caitlin Priday: (32:07) Yeah.   Tahnee: (32:07) And I think that's where people... I don't know. What do you see when you first meet with women? What do they think a doula does versus kind of what you feel like you do? Do you have any experience with that or?   Caitlin Priday: (32:21) I think it's interesting. What comes to up a lot actually is that they want... Generally what I've found is that the doula wants the woman to be there to do all of the things that she thinks her partner can't do. But what I've actually really realised is that this thing that we placed on to men in the birth world, about men being redundant, or this is how a lot of men say, "I feel redundant," actually breaks down the family unit a little bit. So when I go into my initial meetings with people, I'm very focused on supporting and talking with the father, just as much as I am talking with the mother who's pregnant. Because if we talk again about that rite of passage aspect of things, a woman is very visibly going through a rite of passage. Whereas a man is also having a rite of passage, but there's nothing visceral or physical about it.   Caitlin Priday: (33:19) So, a lot of women that want a doula, I think, are quite familiar with what a doula is, which is that emotional support or that physical support, or if there's other kids involved, somebody that can cater to and hold space for the family as a whole. But I'm really into making sure that dads are included in that as well, because we can't have a society of women that are going through a rite of passage, and men that are just ignored or forgotten about. So for me, as a doula, that's been a pretty strong part of my work. I'm not sure if that's what is happening for other doulas, but it seems to be a theme with me that I'm actually there to help equally empower men as I am to the woman.   Caitlin Priday: (34:06) But yeah, I think we're lucky now. I think people do know what doulas are more often. If people that are listening don't know what a doula is, it actually means woman's servant. So midwife means with woman and doula is woman's servant. Doulas have been around forever. We were wet nurses back in the Greek times, or we were nannies or... Women have been assisting women for thousands of years in this way. Doula, isn't a new thing. It's actually a Greek term from thousands of years ago, so it goes to show that we have been here forever.   Tahnee: (34:41) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Caitlin Priday: (34:43) It's just that now people are realising that they need us more. I think it's challenging at the moment for doulas because COVID has really put a strain on our ability to work. Women that are home birthing generally are in a different state of mind. And sometimes they don't need a doula as much, because if you're home birthing you're going to have a private midwife, or your free birthing and you don't feel like you want that support anyway. So that's a different thing. Like doulas are really needed in that hospital environment at the moment, and it's really challenging. All the births that I've had in the last few months that were lined up, I haven't been able to attend. So [crosstalk 00:35:25].   Tahnee: (35:25) Just for people who are listening, they've basically said there's no support people allowed, is that right?   Caitlin Priday: (35:30) Yeah. Just the partner. But even in Sydney at the moment, they've had really intense birth restrictions where-   Tahnee: (35:36) No partners have been allowed.   Caitlin Priday: (35:37) ... not partner. Mm-mm (negative).   Tahnee: (35:39) Which is just horrific.   Caitlin Priday: (35:41) Yeah.   Tahnee: (35:42) Yeah. And talk about fracturing the family unit.   Caitlin Priday: (35:44) Exactly. Yeah, because women come out completely disturbed. There's a lot of birth trauma going on, not to discount people who have had beautiful experiences in hospitals. Because even in the Shire, I love hearing the stores that come out of Lismore.   Tahnee: (36:01) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (36:02) There's so many positive obstetricians and midwives out there. But on a predominant basis, if you look at statistics, we are failing women in the hospital sense of things. There's cascades of interventions, as my birth working teacher, Ria Dempsey, calls it. So yeah, we are needed, but we are not able to be there, so it's... Not for the portal itself when the baby comes through.   Tahnee: (36:29) Yep. Yeah, I think when we met, you were having to phone support the partner in one birth and-   Caitlin Priday: (36:35) Yeah. That's right. I forgot about that.   Tahnee: (36:38) Yeah, I think it's actually really devastating for women. I mean, I also believe in the power of the female body and the energy to be like, "This is my space." But it's a lot to hold if you aren't experienced and you don't know the system in you. I think that's what's so valuable about having someone who's like a birth keeper of some kind with you who navigates that world regularly. It's like they can be of support and help. And it's quite scary that that's all happening at the moment.   Caitlin Priday: (37:09) Yeah. It's wild. I mean doulas are advocates essentially, but as I've spoken to other birth keepers who are obviously... We're all having the same problem. Once the other woman can't go to hospital, realising that doula support is not just holding your hand as a baby comes out. Doula support is like teaching women how to advocate for themselves, what their rights are, teaching their partner, "This is how you rub her back properly. No, not quite there. A little bit down, you want to know now or she'll scream at you in labour if it ain't right."   Caitlin Priday: (37:43) Other things like postpartum planning, people really hone in on, "Oh, this is my birth plan." But postpartum planning is... if not more important, I think, than birth itself. Because you're got to have your structure and your village set up. So doulas are stepping into different roles now. We're learning how to work with what's going on. We can FaceTime, you know?   Tahnee: (38:09) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (38:10) We can call.   Tahnee: (38:12) Well, I think that piece around education and advocacy is super important. I think, I even can reflect on my first pregnancy being... Like wanting to be nice to this midwife suggesting something I didn't want to do, just a prenatal test. But it's that sort of conditioning we have as women sometimes to be like, "Okay. Well, I don't want to do it, but you're the professional so I'll agree." You know?   Caitlin Priday: (38:40) Yeah.   Tahnee: (38:40) It's just like... And I'm pretty stubborn and strong and I'm easily affected by that stuff. I think having someone there that can be like a sounding board and just provide that mirror, that reflection back to the couple around speaking to fear, speaking to... having someone to voice those concerns to I think just can be really helpful, that isn't your care provider necessarily, that isn't... you know? Because I think they can... I don't know. Like you said, it's just a mixed bag because some people have great experiences and other people, they get the fear of God put into them.   Caitlin Priday: (39:12) 100%.   Tahnee: (39:12) So it can be really different for everybody.   Caitlin Priday: (39:17) That's where at the moment I'm... because I'm a kinesiologist as well, that's my kind of-   Tahnee: (39:22) You're psychic. That was literally my next question. Yeah, I'd love to hear how you see that kind of intersection, because I think...   Caitlin Priday: (39:30) Yeah.   Tahnee: (39:31) I see that as a really helpful tool to have the doula as well.   Caitlin Priday: (39:35) Mm-hmm (affirmative). I mean you touched on a really important thing, which is what is your relationship to fear or stress or pain. You know? These are things that most doulas will go into anyway before the... Like, when we take on a client, we have our paperwork and we're generally having that rapport with not just the mum, the dad as well. If the dad is fearful of birth, that's going to come into the room. So it's important that we have these kinds of conversations with people.   Caitlin Priday: (40:02) At the moment, I'm really incorporating that into my kinesiology work. Because I did that workshop and retreat work for such a long time, I really felt like even with Empress And The Dragon, I could be doing more. And I'm really into integration, like helping people actually understand what's going on. Because I think people can have really spiritual experiences, but they have no grounding. They'll come out kind of going like, "What just happened?" Like you said with plant medicines, people come out and go, "I don't know what just happened to me."   Tahnee: (40:32) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (40:34) Yeah. "I've been blown open, now what?"   Tahnee: (40:35) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (40:35) So that's why I got into kinesiology. But what I've actually been really finding is helping women in kinesiology prior to having birth. So really using their birth as a goal, like the kind of birth that they want to have, and helping them move stress and fear around that to help them get more mentally straight around the kind of birth that they want to have.   Caitlin Priday: (40:58) Kinesiology's amazing because it goes into your own birth story, and that's an important thing even without kinesiology. I think if a woman's preparing to get pregnant even, or is pregnant, unpacking your own birth story, which I'm sure you and Jane would have talked about on her podcast.   Tahnee: (41:14) We talked about menopause.   Caitlin Priday: (41:17) Okay, yeah.   Tahnee: (41:17) But I've done her workshops and obviously unpacked that. I think it's really helpful... I mean, I was very conscious after my birth of my daughter that my mother was very big on physiological birth, and like, "You're like a horse. You pace around. You don't lie on your back." But it was also this very stubborn kind of... I don't know, like almost a masculine approach to-   Caitlin Priday: (41:43) Harder.   Tahnee: (41:44) Yeah, like kind of a tough approach. Like, "I don't need anybody. I can't do..." And I could feel elements of that where I was like, "Don't touch me. Get away from me. I've got..." You know? And I think partly is necessary because that's who the person I am, but also I can feel that being some of her energy.   Caitlin Priday: (42:03) Yeah.   Tahnee: (42:04) Yeah, so I think it's really interesting to reflect on it and... yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (42:07) Yeah.   Tahnee: (42:08) And I mean, I imagine doing it with kinesiology where there's an embodied response that you're able to translate or... yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (42:14) Yeah. You've got that really somatic response of where it's at and what's going on. But I believe that you don't have to go and see a kinesiologist to get fear out of the body before birth. I think that there are so many practices that women could be doing prior to even getting pregnant. The preconception journey is just so important to start as a maiden, like you were saying before. Like unpacking these things, "What was my birth? Like what was my first period like? What's my relationship with fear?" Doing things like dance, movement, like meditation, shamanic journeying, drum journeying. There's so many different avenues that we can go into to start helping us unpack our relationship with our body and our relationship with the internal mother or the mother, the mother wound, that is really important to go into prior to having your baby.   Caitlin Priday: (43:14) I know that people have mother wounds that still have amazing births, but I think that anything that you can do to help you get prepared for a normal physiological labour, if that's what you want, is just so deeply important. And we do go into that a little bit in the book as well. But even what you're saying before about the people pleaser. You know? Like how you're saying that, "No. Yeah, you can do that. I'll do that." I do believe that the good girl archetype is something that needs to be talked about more in society, for women.   Tahnee: (43:49) Yeah, nice girl.   Caitlin Priday: (43:52) Like, "Okay, I will do that." Yeah. I think [crosstalk 00:43:54].   Tahnee: (43:54) I agree. And I mean it's a shadow really of what you're actually thinking, which is, "No." But I think that's an interesting... I think that's one of the things people underestimate. I actually wanted to bookmark this a while ago. At the very beginning you spoke about therapy, and for me, therapy has actually been a really important tool over my life. Probably at like 19 I started going seriously for quite a long time, probably close to a decade. And then I had a bit of a break, and then I've gone back at other phases of life. Now I work with more like a somatic therapist I guess.   Caitlin Priday: (44:36) Yeah.   Tahnee: (44:37) But I just find for integration and for self-reflection, it's just such a useful tool. But it's not often... The spiritual world, in my experience anyway, poo-poos therapy a little bit sometimes.   Caitlin Priday: (44:49) Yeah.   Tahnee: (44:50) I'm interested in your own journey with therapy and how you sort of see that affecting the integration of your work.   Caitlin Priday: (44:56) I'll say one thing, never trust any practitioner that doesn't go to a therapist. That's just my opinion.   Tahnee: (45:03) I agree.   Caitlin Priday: (45:04) If you are seeing somebody that isn't getting supervision, run. I really believe that we have elders and therapists for a reason, like we have people that have gone through rights and passages before us to call us out on things. So for me personally, I have a lot of supervision, mostly because I obviously offer a variety of different things. Sharon is a supervisor for my shamanic work. My teacher, Parajat, supervises me for kinesiology. I call Anna, who's my postpartum teacher for birth stuff, if I'm not really sure what's going on. And then I also just have like normal therapy, which I use EMDR as a tool for me. That's been great because I've of early childhood trauma. If people don't know what EMDR is, I really recommend looking it up. It's an eye movement, very sensory experience where you are basically just helping turn off neural pathways. And I also do parts therapy, which is definitely a shadow thing.   Caitlin Priday: (46:13) Do you know what parts therapy is?   Tahnee: (46:16) No, and EMDR interestingly enough, when I studied Daoist stuff with Mantak Chia, we used it... We didn't call it EMDR, it's actually a Daoist technique that we use in energy work to clear patterns or loops that people get stuck in. It's interesting you're using that because that's... yeah. We're taught at very effective for trauma and loops.   Caitlin Priday: (46:36) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Well, we do it in kinesiology as well. It's more like a subconscious... like sabotage programmes we call them, where it's like the brain goes into internal conflicts or reversals. So the brain kind of fries itself when it's gone through trauma.   Tahnee: (46:51) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (46:52) But EMDR has been really helpful for me because it was predominantly used to people that have gone through really hectic PTSD. They started using it on like war victims and stuff, and it just kind of helps turn off a memory. Because when somebody's rerunning a traumatic memory and over and over again, their amygdala is unable to get out of fight or flight. So it just helps people calm down the fight or flight, or freeze response.   Caitlin Priday: (47:16) So that's been helpful for me, but parts therapy has been more interesting. That's what I've been going into recently and that's more shadow work. It's like calling out archetypes within ourselves and letting them have the chair. We move in the room and we'll sit on the chair and it's a bit more interactive and you actually let that part say what it wants to say.   Tahnee: (47:38) I've actually done stuff like this with this anthroposophical therapist I saw years ago. I did it about five years with her. But yeah, I would sit and I would talk to... and then I would go over there. And then I would also have to move as that kind of aspect of self and throw things.   Caitlin Priday: (47:55) Exactly. Yeah.   Tahnee: (47:56) Make shapes. It was quite... At the beginning I was like, "What the fuck am I doing?" But it actually was very powerful. Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (48:06) Yeah. And with parts therapy as well, you find the opposite of the parts. So when you have a very dominating part, you'll have a part that's very quiet.   Tahnee: (48:12) Timid.   Caitlin Priday: (48:12) Timid. So, that actually is also a shadow. It's not a bad shadow. This is what I was saying before, shadows aren't good or bad, it's just a part that that's been suppressed. Recently I found one of my main shadows was the nurturing quiet woman, because most people that know me personally will know that I'm quite loud and vivacious and extroverted. And that's partly my family conditioning, but that's also my personality.   Caitlin Priday: (48:39) But I also have a very nurturing, quiet, internal side of myself, and I really shoved that away. That was a shadow as well, so that was really helpful. But yeah, I've just found having any form of therapy... I mean, I've done most things, to be honest. I've drank plant medicine a million times, I've done kinesiology, I've done ecstatic dance. I've done ceremonies, but I've actually just found traditional therapy helps a lot.   Tahnee: (49:07) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Caitlin Priday: (49:08) Yeah.   Tahnee: (49:09) And I mean, in terms of your ceremonial work, what does that look like now? Because I think life is ceremony to be a bit... you know?   Caitlin Priday: (49:19) Yeah.   Tahnee: (49:21) But how do you integrate this element or this idea of ceremony into your personal life and work, given that it's something that you've obviously had a lot of experience with?   Caitlin Priday: (49:29) Hmm, it's interesting you ask that. My relationship with ceremony's interesting at the moment. Website thing keeps coming up. Yeah, it's different at the moment because I put it on the back burner a little bit. I think I've become quite masculine in the last few years. That's a product of the grief and just things I've been going through, practicality-wise. I find ritual and ceremonies very feminine and I haven't, funnily enough, made enough space for the feminine.   Caitlin Priday: (50:00) As you were saying, a lot of people are like, "Ceremony is life." And they'll poo-poo it, but actually life is... it really is ceremony. And you know, five years ago I'd build altars and light candles and incense, and it's a big show. And actually, to be honest, I think it was more of a performance. Like, "I'm so spiritual, look at the spiritual things I do."   Tahnee: (50:22) "Look how much incense I can burn." Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (50:23) Exactly. But now I'm older and I'm more integrated. I mean, I've also done a huge ceremonial training with Sharon. And like I said, I've sat in ceremonies many times and serve cacao ceremony, blue lotus ceremony. But yeah, to be honest, now it honestly is the mundane. It's just like watering my plants or having a little bowl of food for the ancestors in my therapy room. That's really important for me. And even just ritualistically having energy hygiene in my clinic space, like a bowl of salt water for every client that comes in, or a candle when I feel like the presence of my dad. It's not such a full blown thing anymore.   Caitlin Priday: (51:06) But even just... like I got to go over and see one of my really close friend's newborn babies two days ago, and that was a ceremony. You know, flowers and-   Tahnee: (51:17) They're baby Buddhas too, you can't be in-   Caitlin Priday: (51:18) Exactly. I was like-   Tahnee: (51:20) You can be in the presence of a newborn and not be like, "Hello, special being."   Caitlin Priday: (51:23) Oh my god. That is holy.   Tahnee: (51:29) Yeah.   Caitlin Priday: (51:29) And then big ceremony in my life is being with my dad when he passed as well. My relationship is very different. I don't need to post about it on Instagram to know that I'm a ceremonial woman. You know?   Tahnee: (51:40) Yeah, it's interesting. I did a workshop earlier this year. I actually can't remember the guy's name right now, having such a blonde day. But he's a teacher from... He's been initiated to Native American lineage, but he is actually also like a pastor in the Christian tradition, and he's also just studied theology. And his point was really around... and I know this life is ceremony thing can feel sarcastic. But his point was like "It's container, it's intention." You know?   Caitlin Priday: (52:13) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (52:13) It's this sort of idea of also having enclosure and then integration. And we can do this when we get in a car. We can do it when we... you know?   Caitlin Priday: (52:23) Yeah.   Tahnee: (52:23) It's like how many times you get in the car and you're on your phone and picking music and you're putting your seatbelt on and you're trying to reverse. And it's like, "Get in the car. Get clear on where you're going. Save attention. Be present with the moment." It sort of just really landed for me how much that changes in my life as well. It used to be I had to practise and I had to do this. It has to be all these things. I have to look like something. And now it's like tending my family, and my chickens, and myself. It's very boring and not particularly... Like you said, not Instagramable, but...   Caitlin Priday: (53:00) No, it's the beauty of the mundane. But I will say in terms of actual ceremony, like when somebody is intentionally running a ceremony... I just have to bring it up because...   Tahnee: (53:13) No, please.   Caitlin Priday: (53:16) ... I promised Sharon that I'd be real on the call. Because I'm a part of her lineage, and so I'm like a spokesperson for the lineage and ceremony is a big part of our lineage. I've obviously apprenticed to her and worked with her for a long time. It's unfortunate in these times where Western people want to put a dollar on Eastern practises and really sell it out, in a way. I am a very, very big advocate for people that want to run ceremony for a job or to have a financial exchange that they actually get proper training for it, because ceremony works with spirits. That is what it is. That's how it always has been. And a true ceremony needs to be run in a proper grounded container, which is also generally known as a medicine wheel. Medicine wheels are in all types of cultures. They vary depending on the culture. But even if you're Celtic, they've always had medicine wheels as well.   Tahnee: (54:28) The Daoists have the turtle.   Caitlin Priday: (54:28) Yeah, exactly. And the native Americans have got their wheel and... Anyway, so there is always somebody there is the holder and the spokesperson and the leader of that wheel, if there is a ceremony that's going on. That's why there's always wise people or sages or whatever. I do have a problem with ceremony being thrown around and I do have a problem with ceremonies being put on the internet, because I believe that true ceremony isn't shared in that way. I do think that we could do better. People that post pictures of altars and things like that, they're sacred portals, they're sacred spaces where the spirits come in to do their work. So I don't believe that posting sacred pictures online is doing that work justice. If anything, it's diluting the magic and the ritual that people have been putting their energy into.   Caitlin Priday: (55:22) It's like if you're building an alter for manifestation and then you put it on Instagram and then everybody looks at it, it can really actually do the opposite. It can actually dilute the energy from it. So ceremony is sacred, but I do believe that ceremony is also contained. And if somebody wants to run ceremony that they definitely need to get proper training because a real ceremony will bring up shadows and triggers. And if the facilitator doesn't know how to handle that and hasn't done that work themselves, you're not going to be in a good space.   Tahnee: (55:54) Hmm. I'm really glad you've said all of that. And when I think about formal ceremonies I've attended, the casualness with which an experienced facilitator operates belies how much is going on underneath the surface. I've sat with people in their 60s and 70s who have been holding ceremonies for a very long time. They seem so nonchalant and relaxed. But then if you really tune in, there's like this eagle perception of they're literally above it all, watching and holding and architecting. You know?   Caitlin Priday: (56:31) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (56:32) It's just this very interesting dynamic to observe. And yes, I think that's a good distinction around, I guess, life is ceremony and our own personal relationship with that aspect. I'm a yoga teacher, and I find posting... My personal practice, I can't share it. I cannot. I've never been able to record. I watch people on Instagram. I'm like, "It's so interesting that they can record their practice." Like, I can record a class that I'm intending to share, and share it. But if it's like my practice, I'm like, "This is..." It's like recording myself having sex with my partner. It's very intimate for me. And yeah, I find it really interesting. Not to say other people are wrong, but it's just something I've never been able to cross as a boundary for myself.   Caitlin Priday: (57:18) Yeah. I mean, that's a really good point because we have to question before we post things, why are we actually posting it? Do we want validation? Do we want other people to think we're spiritual? Do we want to sell a workshop that we're bringing out in three months? You know? When something is truly sacred and intimate, why would you feel like you need other people to be involved in that? That's between you and the divine, or you and your ancestors or you and your spirit team. Yeah, I think it's a good point for us to put into the podcast. I think that would be a thing in itself.   Tahnee: (57:52) Yeah. Totally. It's like its whole-   Caitlin Priday: (57:54) I can feel the mystery between you and I going, "Well, that can be a whole other conversation."   Tahnee: (57:59) Yeah. I find this stuff... and I guess I find it valuable to discuss with people who have relationships with these things, because a part of me values that if someone saw someone's practice and was moved by their intentionality and their self connection and... I can see the value in that being a transmission that people can receive and maybe inspire them into their own version of that. You know?   Caitlin Priday: (58:27) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (58:27) I get it. I get that seeing someone's alter can inspire someone else to go and maybe... I remember last year seeing pictures from people on All Hallows' Eve kind of connecting with their ancestors and I thought, "Oh, that's actually really beautiful."   Caitlin Priday: (58:45) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (58:45) But I agree with you that part of me was also like, "Urgh. Did the ancestors want to be like on Instagram as well?"   Caitlin Priday: (58:52) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (58:54) Yeah. And I don't have a black and white answer for it. I have a very uncomfortable relationship with social media as it is. But I do think it's interesting when it comes to these things that are deeply intimate, like how do we maybe inspire or serve others through our work and our practise, and also keep something for ourselves. So just a constant-   Caitlin Priday: (59:13) We just embody it.   Tahnee: (59:15) Yeah. Constant dance, I think.   Caitlin Priday: (59:17)

Welcome back to season 3 of Positive Birth Australia. I am beyond excited to be back sharing inspiring and educational stories to assist you along your journey. It gives me the greatest pleasure to start this year off with one of the greatest, a Women's Mysteries teacher and founder of “The School of Shamanic Womancraft, Jane Hardwicke Collings. Jane is a self described postmenopausal grandmother at the sunset of her life. She supported women birthing at home for 30 years, giving us detail on what she learned along the way and the life lessons she drew from her own births. Jane shares her boundless wisdom on an array of topics from reconnecting to our menstrual cycle, birth imprints, rites of passage and the formula for life we can unearth from our own birth experiences. This is must listen for all… enjoy! ❀ Show links: Instagram: @janehardwickecollings Website: www.janehardwickecollings.com Today's episode brought to you by: Intuitive Birth Doula Services @intuitivebirth.ds www.intuitivebirth.com.au Use code: PBA50 for 50% off

This week we have the incredible wisdom & insight of Jane Hardwicke Collings. This incredible woman is self described as a postmenopausal grandmother at the sunset of her life. A former Registered Nurse who worked in Paediatric Intensive Care Units and Women's Operating Theatres, she became a midwife, but left the hospital system & was a home birth midwife for 30 years. She travels teaching workshops on the wisdom of cycles, the spiritual practice of menstruation; preparation for menstruation for mothers and daughters; and the sacred shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, birth, mothering and menopause; and how to reclaim and heal our rites of passage. She created the School of Shamanic Womancraft (formerly the School of Shamanic Midwifery) in 2009, and her mission is to reclaim feminine knowledge, wisdom and power through reconnection with the Women's Mysteries. Join us as we delve into the power of rites of passage, the Harvest Queen time of our lives, and what it truly means to embody the Crone. Jane has also been so generous to offer our Podcast Coven a very special added bonus - 'Herstory', a book authored by Jane is available as a PDF download for our listeners who sign up to Jane's newsletter. https://www.getdrip.com/forms/780641998/submissions/new Find more of Jane here http://www.janehardwickecollings.com/ Instagram - @janehardwickecollings Facebook - 'Jane Hardwicke Collings' With www.schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com Have a witchy question to ask? Get in touch, we would love to hear from you! Email - tospsychic@gmail.com Follow us on Instagram #turnsout_shesawitch Presented by Shannon Cotterill & Laura Turner. Produced, edited, & music by Laura & Matt Turner. Visit Shannon's website here www.ashamoon.squarespace.com www.shannon-cotterill.squarespace.com Visit Tracey's website here Australian Medium, Psychic & Spiritual Alignment Mentor https://www.traceydimech.com.au

This week we have the incredible wisdom & insight of Jane Hardwicke Collings. This incredible woman is self described as a postmenopausal grandmother at the sunset of her life. A former Registered Nurse who worked in Paediatric Intensive Care Units and Women's Operating Theatres, she became a midwife, but left the hospital system & was a home birth midwife for 30 years. She travels teaching workshops on the wisdom of cycles, the spiritual practice of menstruation; preparation for menstruation for mothers and daughters; and the sacred shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, birth, mothering and menopause; and how to reclaim and heal our rites of passage. She created the School of Shamanic Womancraft (formerly the School of Shamanic Midwifery) in 2009, and her mission is to reclaim feminine knowledge, wisdom and power through reconnection with the Women's Mysteries. Join us as we delve into the power of rites of passage, the Harvest Queen time of our lives, and what it truly means to embody the Crone. Jane has also been so generous to offer our Podcast Coven a very special added bonus - 'Herstory', a book authored by Jane is available as a PDF download for our listeners who sign up to Jane's newsletter. https://www.getdrip.com/forms/780641998/submissions/new Find more of Jane here http://www.janehardwickecollings.com/ Instagram - @janehardwickecollings Facebook - 'Jane Hardwicke Collings' With www.schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com Have a witchy question to ask? Get in touch, we would love to hear from you! Email - tospsychic@gmail.com Follow us on Instagram #turnsout_shesawitch Presented by Shannon Cotterill & Laura Turner. Produced, edited, & music by Laura & Matt Turner. Visit Shannon's website here www.ashamoon.squarespace.com www.shannon-cotterill.squarespace.com Visit Tracey's website here Australian Medium, Psychic & Spiritual Alignment Mentor https://www.traceydimech.com.au

A juicy episode with Jane Hardwicke Collings chatting women's mysteries, cyclical living, rites of passage and self care in motherhood.  Find Jane Hardwicke Collings: @janehardwickecollings www.janehardwickecollings.com   Find me: @the.mummy.retreat @yourmummyretreatpod www.themummyretreat.com  

PART 2/3 Welcome back to the Earth Within Podcast with your host - Sophie French. This episode is Part 2 of 3 Part Series with our incredible guest Charlotte Pointeaux. In today's episode we cover: Charlotte maps out the cycles you can work with and the similarities and difference between them We unpack the Cyclical Wisdom Map originally mapped by Jane Hardwicke Collings and Claire Baker in Cycle Coach School Including the; circadian rhythm, the moon cycle, the menstrual cycle, a woman's life cycle, the seasons and the life cycle of a flower. Charlotte is a Wild Feminine Cycle and Embodiment Coach here for the awakened woman who is ready to reclaim her body, menstrual cycle, and feminine power to lead, live and love in flow with nature's wisdom. MENTIONED; Jane Hardwicke Collings Claire Baker - Founder of Cycle Coach School Red School CONNECT WITH CHARLOTTE Listen to Charlotte's Podcast - Wild Flow Podcast www.charlottepointeaux.com www.firstmooncircles.com Instagram: @charlotte.pointeaux.coach CONNECT WITH SOPHIE Instagram @sophiefrench___ www.sophie-french.com.au email - hello@sophie-french.com.au

Today's episode is featuring the wise and wonderful Jane Hardwicke Collings. We discuss the Dark Goddess, and the important and brave act of diving into the underworld to work on integrating aspects of the shadow. We discuss who the Dark Goddess is, the personal and collective shadow, why so many people repress aspects of themselves into the shadow, the role darkness plays in growth and healing, how to dive into the underworld, and wrap up with Jane's Lilith story. You can learn more about Jane and her offerings at https://janehardwickecollings.com And reconnect with your wild self at her School of Shamanic Womancraft For more, visit www.becomingfullyhuman.ca Or connect with me @camillejulia

Today's episode is a little different than usual! A few months ago, I came across this beautiful read called "Herstory - a womanifesto" by Jane Hardwicke Collings, which tells the story of the feminine through the last thousands of years and the different cycles the feminine has been through bringing us to day... ready for a rebirth and rise of the feminine! I reached out to the author, Jane, to ask for her permission to read it aloud on the nourishing podcast and she enthusiastically approved! Enjoy the listen! I invite her to find her and all the amazing resources & courses she offers about the feminine and how to reconnect with our body and cycles at the following links: Jane Hardwicke Collings' website Jane on Instagram And please share this podcast!  Every girl and woman need to know about this!  And find me on instagram for more updates and food for thought @radicatanutrition.

Tune in to episode 7 where I converse with inspirational feminine powerhouse Jane Hardwicke Collings about:The wounded feminine - what this means and how it looks in practical terms in today's society; Defining “rites of passage” and their importance;My own story of reclaiming childbirth as a rite of passage and its profound impacts on EVERYTHING;We discuss that there's no wrong way to experience a rite of passage - you have the experience you need to learn what you need to learn; How we can tap into our rites of passage to empower us to live fully and in alignment with our true selves; The importance of menopause as a rite of passage; The exponential visionary and intuitive capacity of “Magas” and “Crones” and why we desperately need them; The kind of world Jane would like to see in 2050. Show links:   Jane's website: https://janehardwickecollings.com  Where you can find Jane's books: https://janehardwickecollings.com/shop/  Audio recording of Herstory - https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/free-birth-society/id1231912533?i=1000463565225  Arne Rubinstein - another import voice for rites of passage: https://ritesofpassageinstitute.org My incredible doula, Michelle Palasia: https://michellepalasia.com.au

Wise author, grandmother and revolutionary Jane Hardwicke Collings is passionate, provocative and also funny - even as she busts through taboos, heals collective wounds and creates a roadmap for a positive menstrual and menopause culture. We explore:The roots of menstrual shame and its impact on our cycles and our bodies.How to live and bleed shamelessly through the spiritual practice of menstruation.How to heal the menopause shame (and a surprising fact about the five other mammals who go through menopause, and how it serves their offspring and communities.)---Registration is now open for our 2021 live round of Menopause: The Great Awakener. You can explore the five phases of menopause here: www.redschoolmenopause.com.---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email info@redschool.net---Social media:Red School: @red.school - www.instagram.com/red.schoolJane Hardwicke Collings @janehardwickecollings - www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings

Today’s episode is with a woman whose work & wisdom has quite literally changed my life. It’s my absolute privilege today to bring to you one of my great teachers, Jane Hardwicke Collings. Jane is a grandmother, former homebirth midwife for 30 years, a teacher, writer & menstrual educator. She gives workshops on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth & menopause. Jane founded and runs The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international Women’s Mysteries School. If you haven’t come across Jane before, brace yourself mama, because today’s episode is EPIC. If you do know Jane and her work, you’re in for a real treat here because in this episode we don’t just skim the surface of her work, we dive really deep into her ideas and thinking & we get into all the meaty details. We talk about: The shamanic dimensions of pregnancy and how the things that show up in our lives & bodies during pregnancy are information to support us to transform into a new version ourselves and to become “the mother our babies come for” How we have the birth we need to teach us what we need to learn about ourselves to take us to the next place on our journey, and how the quality that we need to learn about ourselves in how we birth our babies, is the quality we need to bring to mothering them. How to learn from and begin healing from a traumatic birth - the questions Jane offers to ask yourself are life changing. The difference between midwifery and obstetric care and how the single most impactful decision a woman will make that will influence her birth outcome is who her primary carer will be & her place of birth. How we can prepare for birth before we’re even pregnant, through healing trauma stored in the body, opening to a relationship with our spirit baby, connecting with our menstrual cycle, looking into our previous experiences of rites of passage, unhooking from the medical model of birth, and bringing consciousness to our fears. If you enjoy today's episode, it would mean the world to me if you left me a review over on iTunes, because that helps to get this podcast in front of other wild mamas who could also benefit from these conversations. You can also share this podcast with other mamas by simply taking a screenshot and sharing it on Instagram, and don’t forget to tag me at @drjessicahodgens! RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY'S EPISODE: Grab your copy of my free guide, 'The Four Things you Actually Need to Know to Prepare for a Physiologic ("Natural") Birth' Jane’s incredible book, ‘Ten Moons: The Inner Journey of Pregnancy’ CONNECT WITH JANE On Instagram@janehardwickecollings Through one of Jane’s online courses including Pregnancy: The Inner Journey & Snake Medicine: Healing Menstrual Shame Book a private session with Jane Study with the School of Shamanic Womancraft Until next time - stay wild, mamas! Jess xx Find me on Instagram at@drjessicahodgens www.jessicahodgens.

We are so grateful to be able to share this special interview with Jane Hardwicke Collings - A Women's Mysteries Teacher, Women-crafter, a Mother, Grandmother, Former Midwife, A Writer, Teacher, Workshop Facilitator. Jane is a former Registered Nurse, and worked in that capacity in Paediatric Intensive Care Units and Women's Operating Theatres. Jane became a midwife at 26 and left the hospital system so as not to be complicit with institutionalised acts of abuse and violence on women and babies masquerading as safety. Jane ‘grew up' in the home-birth world and was a home-birth midwife for 30 years in the city and then rural areas. Her own births have taught her who she is and what she is capable of. Jane travels to give workshops on the wisdom of the cycles and the spiritual practice of menstruation; preparation for menstruation for mothers and daughters; and the sacred and shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, birth, mothering and menopause; and how to reclaim and heal our rites of passage. Jane also offers teacher training for these. Jane speaks at conferences and festivals and offers her books and e-courses to help heal the wounded feminine and wounded masculine of our patriarchal culture. Jane is on a mission and is committed to working to help heal birth through helping mothers be more informed about how the system works and their rights, to heal traumatic birth experiences, to help birth workers be more aware of their impact on babies, mothers and fathers, to help heal menstruation by encouraging conscious rites of passage at menarche (first period) and helping women remember the importance of being connected to their body and their menstrual cycle, to banish menstrual shame and co-create a positive menstrual culture, and to reclaim menopause from medicine and help women harness the transformation powers of menopause. Basically to reclaim feminine knowledge, wisdom and power through reconnection with the women's mysteries. Sit back and enjoy every moment of Jane's Wisdom. We hope you enjoy this episode and if you would like to work with us further click on the links below to see our programs. Shari Lyon - Belly2Birth Hypnobirthing Nicola Laye - Breath Work /Pregnancy Coach To work with Jane or to learn more please contact:- https://janehardwickecollings.com E Courses https://janehardwickecollings.com/ecourse/ Shop https://janehardwickecollings.com/shop/

In this episode, we invite Jane Hardwicke Collings to show us some profound insights into History and reclaiming our feminine knowledge, wisdom, and power. On a mission to help other women wake up from the patriarchal slumber, Jane has been spreading her empowering message across the globe.    Jane sees herself as an Agent of the Goddess, a Priestess at the altars of transformation.   She carries 3 lineages:   Homebirth Midwifery -  ancient wise woman practices passed down the generations learned from Maggie Lecky Thompson (Australia).   EarthSong (Boulder, Colorado, USA) Shamanic Teachings and Practices - learned from James Harvey (AKA BlackBear) and Cedar Barstow.   Shamanic Midwifery - the teachings and insights of the Late Jeannine Parvati Baker (USA).   Jane is a post-menopausal mother and grandmother. She was an intensive care and operating theatre nurse, and a homebirth midwife for 30 years. Jane now focuses on teaching the Women's Mysteries and writing about them. She also gives workshops on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred and shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, birth, and menopause. Jane is the Founder of The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international Women's Mystery School.   KEY POINTS: Waking up from our Patriarchal slumber  Diving into the Patriarchy and Matriarchy The role religion plays in the Feminine and Masculine How to dispel menstrual shame and embrace your cycles Healing through and honoring our menstrual cycles Ways to prepare your child for menarche and menstruation How to start standing in your feminine power Home births: returning to what's natural for your body  Understanding that the truth always changes    QUOTABLES: “What we need to be, is the women the earth needs now. And that's not subservient, and that's not oppressed, it's standing up in our feminine power and standing up for the earth and our children.” “The menstrual cycle is the barometer of our well-being. Anything that's not working in our lives, any imbalance, any toxicity, and that could be poisoned food, thoughts, relationships, it all shows up in our menstrual cycle.”    PRODUCTS / RESOURCES: Jane Hardwicke Collings janehardwickecollings.com Herstory: Jane Hardwicke Collings Writings On The Fall Of Matriarchy | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/herstory-jane-hardwicke-collings-writings-on-fall-matriarchy/id1231912533?i=1000463565225 Sign up for your free copy of Herstory while also subscribing to the Lunar newsletter here: getdrip.com/forms/780641998/submissions/new   Season 4 enrolment of HER Playbook Program is now open: kristeldavid.com/herplaybook  Follow Kristel on Instagram @kristelcdavid - instagram.com/kristelcdavid Visit her website at kristeldavid.com Subscribe to her YouTube channel: youtube.com/channel/UCLy96L4X7KnuqStzoqYsTow  Access her other resources here: linktr.ee/kristelcdavid Be sure to join the HER Playbook Private Facebook group to keep the conversations going, share your 2 cents, and stay up to date on all the value Kristel has to offer! - Join here: facebook.com/groups/1028818904241672 HER Playbook is edited by Instapodcasts (visit at instapodcasts.com) 

Here on the SuperFeast podcast, we love to celebrate and acknowledge beautiful humans who kindle a light, embody their truth, and bring forth a unique offering of human goodness to the world; Today's guest Jinti Fell is a woman who does just that. A mother of three (currently pregnant with the third), Jinti and her partner Chris have become known for sharing their nomadic and intentional living with the online world. Living life in a converted bus to tiny house bliss, toddlers, newborns, a magical off-grid home birth thrown in the mix, their way of living radiates an air of simplicity, freedom, and intentional creation. In this very open chat with Tahnee, Jinti speaks to her journey through motherhood, her incredible undisturbed home birth, and how she navigates the duality of sharing her life online and remaining true to herself. Tahnee and Jinti share some beautiful insights on ecstatic birth and sexual energy; Going deeper to connect with the cervix and womb space during pregnancy/birth and why women are often culturally shamed for experiencing such pleasure. This episode is a must-listen for all women and a divine exploration of womanhood, motherhood, sexuality, and the journey within to our innate wisdom.   "There's so much happening in the world. We're in lockdown right now, and it's so easy to get caught up in all of that. For me, just knowing when to step back is so important. Being in nature, connecting with the elements, sitting in the sunshine, going for a walk; are all ways to dissolve fears, as well as just returning to nature. I think it's super potent also when you're growing a baby because it's that primal energy." - Jinti Fell    Tahnee and Jinti discuss: Wild pregnancy. Prenatal nutrition. Conscious conception. Jinti's undisturbed birth The journey of pregnancy. Homeschooling/unschooling. Living life from a place of truth. Connecting with the cervix/womb space. Cervical orgasms and pleasure during birth. Exploring sexual energy throughout pregnancy. Observing the emotion of fear in pregnancy and birth. Jinti's journey of pregnancy outside the medical system. Navigating social media without compromising your truth.    Who is Jinti Fell? Jinti Fell is an Aussie mother to 2 (soon to be 3). Jinti is passionate about all things pregnancy, natural/undisturbed birth, health, homeschooling, leading by example, and creating a beautiful life for her family. Jinti thrives through exploring alternate ways to live. She believes that detaching from 'things' and stepping away from conventional living is what truly makes us happy. Slowing down and living with intention is what she hopes to convey through everything she does.   CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST    Resources: Jinti's Instagram Jinti's Home Birth Vlog Jinti's Youtube Channel Life Changing Sex Makes Anything Possible with Kim Anami (EP#28)   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:00) Hi, everybody. I'm here today with Jinti Fell. I'm really excited to have her on the podcast. She's been a friend of SuperFeast and me for a while now, and she's just such an inspiring and interesting person. I wanted to bring Jinti on today because I feel like she really embodies a lot of the things that we teach and speak about at SuperFeast, which is sovereignty and really choosing to live a life aligned with your values and your own evolving truth, whatever that may be. So welcome, Jinti. Thanks so much for taking the time.   Jinti Fell: (00:31) Oh, thank you for having me. I've been inspired by so many episodes on this podcast, so it's an honour to be here talking with you.   Tahnee: (00:40) So exciting. No, hopefully we can inspire some people today with your beautiful wisdom. I wanted to kind of jump right in, because I know that you're pregnant right now. Congratulations. That's baby number three for you guys.   Jinti Fell: (00:53) Yes.   Tahnee: (00:54) Yeah, and how's that been going, having now two little ones to attend as well as your third pregnancy?   Jinti Fell: (01:01) I often look back and sort of laugh at my first pregnancy thinking about how little I really had to do. I didn't care for anyone else necessarily bar me. And then the third pregnancy chasing my kids around constantly. It's different, but it's been really nice as well. It's been very cruisy, and I'm starting to sort of sink into that airy pregnancy spaces birth approaches, but yeah, it's actually been a really nice journey so far.   Tahnee: (01:39) Yeah, I think you always seem, I mean, again, it's through the lens of social media, but you seem to really have a great knack for knowing what you need and prioritising that even within like a busy mommy life. Is that something you think you've worked hard for or is that something that's always been there for you, that ability to tune in to what you really need to stay centred?   Jinti Fell: (02:00) Hmm, I feel like that is actually my priority intentionally this pregnancy particular. I don't feel I was necessarily blacked out as much in my first pregnancy. It's been quite different experiences. What really started off for me prioritising just honouring what I really need would be probably having a pregnancy completely outside of the medical system and feeling that I need to take a 100% responsibility for my care And whatever that needs to look like. And it's been so empowering this pregnancy, because I am not second guessing things. I'm not questioning, am I doing the right thing? I've been there. I've experienced that. I know what I want. And this pregnancy has been about just really honouring that, that second guessing it and yeah, just trusting myself. So yeah, It's definitely something I focus on doing intentionally.   Tahnee: (03:17) Because I mean, I've followed your journey because your daughter, your first daughter was obviously ... Did you have a home birth with her, or no?   Jinti Fell: (03:27) No.   Tahnee: (03:27) Do you mind taking us on that journey? Because I don't know if you know of Jane Hardwicke Collings, but I've done a bit of work with her and she always shares how each birth was what she needed to be pushed onto the next stage of her path. And she went from sort of a casserian hospital birth to an ecstatic home birth on her third birth. And I think there's something really beautiful in that that she kind of used her births as her kind of own personal evolutionary journey. And I wonder if that's, I kind of get the sense that that's similar for you, but I don't want to put words in your mouth.   Jinti Fell: (04:01) I really admire her work and I can so relate to that. My first, so we'll go back to my first pregnancy and birth of my daughter was in a birthing suite and it wasn't a typical pregnancy. So I was within the medical system and the birthing suite's really, I see now just an extension of the hospital, but I travelled for my entire pregnancy so I didn't have ongoing prenatal care, like the typical care within the system. I was backpacking and we were on a sort of an around the world trip and I was really fearful about so many things. It wasn't a planned pregnancy, so I spent the first few months really resisting and just in complete non-acceptance of what was going on, until I started to feel her moving inside of me. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, there's a baby in me."   Jinti Fell: (05:15) And I started really feeling like bonding with her and just, I was like, "Whoa, she's feeling all of this because I can't hide anything from her. She is inside of me." And so that shifted a lot. I put so much energy into thinking about what I should be doing. Even when we decided to continue our travels, I was like, "Am I allowed to do that? Can I travel pregnant? Is this so irresponsible? What are people going to think of this?" I had all this fear about returning to Australia, which I did when I was about 30 weeks pregnant and thinking, "Okay, then I have to find a midwife, and what are they going to think about me?" So that was something I really had to work through. I'm like, "Why am I trying to please everyone else so much?"   Jinti Fell: (06:15) And that sort of carried on after birth as well. It wasn't like, well it's interesting because giving birth, I did give birth, like I said, in the birthing suite, but we were there for about 20 minutes before she was born. It was just Chris and I in our apartment. And it was without a doubt the most amazing experience of my life. It completely changed us. It just awoke something in me. I could just feel how strong I was. And for Chris and I had to go through that together in our relationship at that time, it was just the love that we felt for each other and him being there for me like that. And then at the end of it all having our daughter, it was just like, "Whoa, this is everything." And so I can really agree with what Jane was saying about how her experiences were exactly what she needed. I needed to be awoken to the strong woman that I am, where before I almost was still a child, still my mother's child in lots of ways.   Tahnee: (07:36) I got  total goosebumps when you're talking about that. I just, I think the love that's possible when you are supported by your partner and then that healthy birth. And it's just a really, really empowering experience. And I mean, how did that translate for you guys, the second pregnancy? Because you had the conscious conception with your son and I know you chose to, I mean, did you continue to have some obstetric care or midwifery care or did you go completely wild pregnancy after that, or?   Jinti Fell: (08:15) Yeah, I'll start with after giving birth to my daughter because we realised, well, I realised the same day that I birthed her, we were just waiting to be allowed to be discharged, really just looking. I'm not someone that ever, I'm not regularly going to see a doctor at this stage. I'd had not many health complications in my life leading up to giving birth. It was not an environment I was at all familiar with. Chris at the time was in his fourth year of studying [inaudible 00:08:54]. So we were very much like did not want to be there. So as soon as we could, we got home and was just like, "Okay, yes." And I remember looking at Chris and thinking, "We didn't need anyone, that was all me and his support, and everything else was completely unnecessary." And in fact it hindered, it took away from our experience.   Jinti Fell: (09:25) And I remember looking at him and being like, it just started me thinking of like, "I don't want them there." I didn't want them there. And next time I wonder what that would look like if it was just us, could we just stay home and give birth? And so it really started then, but I also had just become a mother. And so the thought of having another child was not, I was like, "Well, we're just having one kid now." But then yeah, a couple of years later, it took about two years for my bleed to return. And so I started, like when my cycle began again, I sort of instantly was like, "Okay, I'm thinking about our next baby and feeling like he was ready."   Jinti Fell: (10:20) And not that I needed to conceive that month or anything, but just in my mind I was like, "Okay, I'm really starting to prepare to bring in our next child and what do we want that to look like." With his conception, I don't know if you want me to go into that, but you asked about if I received any care, I had sort of a wild pregnancy? And yeah, with him it was completely outside care and support. No obstetricians, I didn't have a midwife or doula. Yeah, nothing.   Tahnee: (10:59) And how, I mean, as a couple and a family, how do you feel that sort of changed your experience compared to your first pregnancy and birth? Was it more kind of intuitive or more connected, or?   Jinti Fell: (11:14) It was, but it was also a lot of questioning and second guessing. And as a parent or as a mother, no one cares more than you care. And it was also interesting navigating it whilst we also shared our lives online. I found that quite difficult. I would say that I knew in my heart what I was doing was right. And I felt extremely, I really felt I knew how he wanted to be born, but I would second guess my own feelings. I suppose like, "Can I just trust that and go with that, or is that just crazy?"   Jinti Fell: (12:09) So I did also towards the end, which I think stemmed from my first pregnancy where the day I turned 40 weeks, my midwife started speaking to me about what would happen if my labour didn't begin. And my water's leaked for about 12 hours before I felt any sort of contractions or surges. And so there was already this timeframe, the clock was ticking. I had to do things, have things happen within certain timeframes. And that stressed me out more than anything in my whole pregnancy, just having to meet their requirements. And so it took away from me just trusting and honouring that everything was unfolding as it needed to. And so I really think I took that into my next pregnancy. And one of my biggest fears was, what if labour doesn't start? What if I just don't go into labour? And I'm seeing all of these women around me getting induced and it's just so normal to have the stretch and sweep and just even eating hot foods and curries. And I don't know all of the things-   Tahnee: (13:24) Upstairs.   Jinti Fell: (13:25) Here I am sort of 41 weeks looking at Chris being like, "Am I going to, do women go into labour naturally?" And he was like, "Look, you're not going to be pregnant forever. Just chill." But there were definitely things that I carried through in my second pregnancy, but the most amazing empowering thing for me was I had to take 100% responsibility. And that is terrifying a lot of the time, because you love, you have so much love and all you want is the best outcomes and you have to own it, like every decision and not palm it off to, "Oh I thought I had two, or they said to do this or that," it's all up to you. And it's very confronting sometimes. But at the end of it all, the trust I walked away from in myself, knowing that I could really trust my intuition, especially if I got quiet and just let things settle and navigated my fears.   Jinti Fell: (14:38) I was like, "Whoa, this is really empowering." And I was not someone that was, I was never like I'm having a wild pregnancy, which means I will never seek help if I needed it or anything like that. I just went day to day. And if I needed anything, I would seek it. And if I didn't, I wouldn't. So I felt really supported. I know a lot of people call it unassisted birth. But it felt, it didn't feel unassisted. I felt just so supported and loved throughout that whole journey that I just felt I had everything I needed.   Tahnee: (15:27) I mean, when you speak about fear, what is your relationship to that and how you spoke about getting quiet? Is it through meditation or is there a practise you do, or do you just allow fear and work within that sort of, I think a lot of women I spoke to, whatever their pregnancy choices, fear is such a common topic. And I think it's really important to voice what you're afraid of. But I wonder about your own inner journey with that, how you work with fear?   Jinti Fell: (15:57) I really try to accept fear as a completely normal emotion, like creativity or sexual energy or joy. It's a feeling that I try to express and not hold in my body. So even just letting it be what it needs to be play out, closing my eyes and locating where I have the fear and moving through it with either vocalising it or with movement or speaking it out really helps me. Yeah, just putting a voice to it. And sometimes that would look like in pregnancy me doing some research like, "Well, what would happen if I felt I was bleeding too much after birth? What would I specifically do?" And then being like, "Okay, there's answers here. And I know that I could deal with that situation however I'd need to." But that's not happening right now. So what's happening right now, I'm really just bringing myself back to reality because I think a lot of my fears and everyone's fears are when we just leave our thoughts unchecked, and we just need to sort of come back to ourselves.   Jinti Fell: (17:20) And I also trust that if something genuinely wrong, I know, I would know, and I would deal with that, however, best I could. But yeah, that was me. It's funny actually, because well it's not really funny, but I really didn't have fears. And I started having fears about not having fears. I'm like, "Should I be more? Should I?" Yeah, if that answers your question.   Tahnee: (17:58) And I relate to that, because I chose a home birth, my first daughter, and I remember being so relaxed about it and people going, "Well, aren't you terrified of this? And aren't you terrified about that?" And I was like, oh gosh, no. That's not even in my reality. And then I was like, "Okay, well, same thing, I'll do some research on it, okay."   Jinti Fell: (18:19) I agree. You just made the most important point, because so often our fears are genuinely not ours, they're just coming at us from other people. And that was my experience. If I was just left alone I'll be like, "Cool, I'm just going give birth now." But there's projected fears and it's so important for me. I know in my pregnancy right now, there's a lot going on. There's so much happening in the world. We're in lockdown right now. And it's really easy to get caught up in all of that sort of stuff. But yeah, just knowing when to step back and for me as well, being in nature or just connecting in some way with the elements or the sunshine, or just going down for a walk is a really great way for me to dissolve fears as well as, just returning to nature. I think it's super potent when you're also growing a baby, because it's just this primal energy.   Tahnee: (19:32) Yeah, it's such a, I was not sure if I was going to share this, but I think I'm just going to. We're six weeks pregnant at the moment, yay. So you're one of the first people to know. Obviously our family and friends know, but yeah. And I was reflecting on this the other day, how it's so natural to conceive and the whole, I'm not doing anything conscious, it's just growing inside of me. And I think it's this funny thing that we have to try and put this mind control on top of what is such a like you said, a primal and kind of, it's a very non-controlled situation. It's just happening and you can't, if you just get out of the way, and anyway, it's something that I reflect on a lot and I reflected on a lot with Aiya and I relate really heavily to what you said about that kind of the midwives offering just sort of an imposition in a way.   Tahnee: (20:28) And I felt a lot of shame about feeling that with Aiya. Because I was grateful for the support and it was my first birth and I made a really conscious choice to give birth that way because I hadn't done it before and I wanted their experience around me. But yeah, there's this part of me that was also like, "Please just go away and leave me to this. I know what I'm doing." And the undermining of your, I would say, "No, no, I can't, I don't want to do that." And they'd be like, "No, no, you need to do this." It was like, "I don't want to." And it's like, and they don't trust your instincts. And I think if you've spent time, and I'm like you, I have a lot of self-doubt around what I know.   Tahnee: (21:07) And I actually think it's healthy in a way, because it forces me to stay in that middle path of like, "I'm not going to pretend I know everything, but I'm also going to try and really operate from that place of trust." But yeah, I do research and I look things up and whatever. But yeah, I just think that we do it all the time to women and to pregnant women. We undermine their choices, we undermine the woman that wants to go and have a caesarean, it's like, that's her choice, and that should be how it is. And I think the more we're having these conversations around how important it is to look at fear, to work through what is your capacity to handle fear? Whose fears are they? Who's narrative are you buying into?   Tahnee: (21:49) I think these are really important sort of prenatal questions and a part of our journey as women. Because we do, we get so much stuff flung at us from all over the place. And I mean, you're on social media pretty actively. I mean, I can't imagine, you must get the best in the worst of humanity coming at you sometimes. How do you deal with that? As a family, do you guys just kind of have really strong boundaries around what you let in or do you try and choose to just engage with the positive stuff?   Jinti Fell: (22:20) Firstly, you're pregnant, that is so exciting. I'm like, "We need to take a moment to just be with that." That's amazing. And I had full body goosebumps, just sitting, knowing that I will be a big sister and yeah. Wow, yeah. But to answer your question, I think something that came up for me when you were speaking was like, how much do we trust women? Do you trust women or not? Because a lot of that second guessing and like you said undermining, is really going against women. And I think that's such an important question to ask yourself whenever you do engage in care with anyone, do you trust, do they trust women? Do they trust me, really trust me? And the other thing that I thought of was like, isn't it so interesting, we're hiring, we're hiring midwives and we're hiring carers.   Jinti Fell: (23:40) It's in a way they're working for us, with us, but it's so crazy to think that they can just not listen to us. And yeah, it really gets me actually. And then in terms of the social media and sharing and oh my gosh, it's truly been a journey. And I'm not, I honestly think everyone is just sensitive. And when people are like, "Don't let the hate get to you or ignore that. Don't give it attention." You're like, "That's not easy." And it's not a natural response as a human, I think to someone energetically really coming for you. So we shared on YouTube, because after we had our daughter, we started living on the road and travelling and just our whole lives changed. Having her really made me think, "How do we want to live? There has to be a better way than how we were living at the time."   Jinti Fell: (24:52) And just like, she was watching everything we did. It didn't matter what we were saying or anything. How we lived is what she was learning from. And so our lives really changed with that realisation. And so we started living in quite an alternative way, I suppose, and that peaked a lot of people's curiosity and that alternated to us sort of sharing our lives more regularly. And it was really fun, we really enjoyed it. But first and foremost, we lived our lives and then we shared parts. And then over the years, I think I let people's opinions get to me more and more. I wasn't ... Well, there's quite a few different reasons why I think I did that. But it wasn't just the negative stuff. We had some horrible people saying horrible things, but it's also the compliments and the praise and the support.   Jinti Fell: (26:05) I think it's all just got to the point where I was seeking outside validation and not following just what felt right to us. And so it sort of sucked some enjoyment out of it. And I was like, "Wait up. We started all this for a reason. And it was to not live in ways that didn't align or feel good." And even now in pregnancy I feel that I dilute a lot of my own beliefs and feelings about things sometimes just to protect my own space. And sometimes I'm okay with that. But other times I'm like, even doing this podcast when I was thinking, "Oh, how would I answer certain things?" I went to not wanting to offend other people, not wanting to. And I was like, "No, I want to speak to people who need to hear this message and who genuinely are interested." But it's funny, it definitely affects me still, and particularly in pregnancy.   Jinti Fell: (27:16) I'm happy to have more space away from it, and just to know that I need to be there for my kids and for myself and within my relationship and our immediate family, when I nurtured that, that's what's really important. So yeah, I'm definitely up and down with being alive, as I know you are too, because you had a really big break. I missed you when you were offline.   Tahnee: (27:46) I really relate to, I mean, I probably have always had one foot out, so I don't feel as affected probably by the other people as you do, but I guess I'm just really questioning what we're even doing participating in this thing. And I mean, but then, like you said, with missing people, there are people in there that I've connected to that I just would never have met in real life. And people that all over the world that I'm able to stay in touch with. And it made me appreciate how, being off it for quite a while made me appreciate it, I didn't need it, but it also, I don't make that effort to connect to people through other means. I don't call my friends in the U.S. and Switzerland, I just don't. The time differences are hard, I have a kid and it's not easy for me to get on a call at seven in the morning. That's when I'm making her breakfast.   Tahnee: (28:44) So I found that practical kind of ability to connect and stay in touch is really valuable for me. That's the biggest reason I'm probably back on. But yeah, I struggle as well, and I think a lot. I mean, I remember when you posted your birth video, and did YouTube take it down?   Jinti Fell: (29:02) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Tahnee: (29:02) I remember there was a little wacky stuff going on then. And I remember really feeling for you because I watched that and it was one of those beautiful, sovereign things I've ever seen. And I thought the way people responded, I don't know, just made me sad. I was like, "Wow, I can't believe that's how people are taking this in this really negative way."   Tahnee: (29:22) But I think it's also, like you said about offending people, I feel that all the time. People write to you and they're triggered by something you say or something you do. And it's difficult. It's difficult to stay authentic and speak from where you are. I learn all the time, but today, this is what I know. And I might be completely wrong and two weeks later I'm like, "Oh God, that was a mistake." But it's part of I think living is to continuously grow and I don't want to censor myself. Because I learned, I learned through making mistakes and people have written me things or written us emails here and they've been like, "Hey, you haven't considered this, or you haven't looked at it from this." It's like, "Amazing. thank you."   Jinti Fell: (30:03) Thank you, yeah.   Tahnee: (30:05) Like you're helping me to learn, but it's all in the delivery. And I think what I see in social media a lot, it's just people are kind of insensitive, harsh, forgetting that there's a human behind any piece of content that you see online. And I guess that's kind of what I felt with you when you had your beautiful birth online, it just seems like there was a lot of positive stuff as well. I don't want to obviously undermine that, but yeah there seemed to be a lot of projection and a lot of just triggering and fear kind of coming at you. So I felt for you guys then, and I don't know if that was a big time for your family or you were sort of able to isolate from that?   Jinti Fell: (30:44) I didn't feel that at all at that time, we were just ... I think because I'd just given birth and it was everything that I knew he needed to be. It was just exactly how I wanted it. And I was like, "I don't care actually what you think right now, because that was awesome." I was probably feeling quite strong then.   Tahnee: (31:21) Would you do that again? Would you post your birth again, or do you think?   Jinti Fell: (31:28) So, actually-   Tahnee: (31:32) You don't have to if you don't want to.   Jinti Fell: (31:35) No, there is no big reveal. Well, this pregnancy actually leading up to conception, just you going through different things in each pregnancy, it's just like a part of your life. There's always different seasons. And I was really drawn to Kim Anami's work actually. I think she's been on your podcast. And I took one of her salons and started really exploring my relationship with myself and with my partner. And it was, yeah. I was like, "Okay, I want to have a cervical orgasm because what's up with that?" And that journey really led me, well, we conceived. And that was very on purpose. Well, in ways. But this pregnancy for me has been all about finding pleasure and enjoyment. I had this really calm and peaceful birth. That was just what my son's like, it's just him and what was needed. But I know that I could explore that more and go deeper and have a very intimate, pleasurable birth. And so I'm like, "I don't know if I can film that, because I don't think it necessarily works like that. I think it's going to take away from."   Tahnee: (33:14) It's like being watched and trying to have an orgasm.   Jinti Fell: (33:22) Yeah.   Tahnee: (33:24) [inaudible 00:33:24] I guess. [inaudible 00:33:30].   Jinti Fell: (33:30) Yeah. But I would like to have, I love when saying it, I've not really watched my son's birth. I've seen snippets where my daughter wants to watch it because she just loves watching birthing videos, but I'm like, "I feel it would be cool if they want to watch how they were born one day." And just having that there, it's nice to me like that. So I haven't decided, I feel like I can have a photographer or someone in the space. I really want it to be an intimate space. So yeah, we'll see. But sharing the video the last time, the whole time I've shared our lives online and stuff, the messages I've got from women who have watched that video who had never seen a calm birth, or it just opened their mind to a different way or something. I was like, "Whoa, that was important for me to share. I'm really glad I did." So yeah, we'll see. Maybe I'll just keep referring just if anyone else refers to the other like, "Look, there's a lot of that."   Tahnee: (34:52) Yeah, I'm curious. So with Kim Anami, which salon did you do?   Jinti Fell: (34:55) I took her Well-Fucked Woman salon. Have you done this all?   Tahnee: (35:00) Yeah, I've done a couple of them.   Jinti Fell: (35:02) Okay.   Tahnee: (35:04) And Mase has done the men's one, which I can't remember what it's called.   Jinti Fell: (35:10) Yeah, it starts next month. I think Chris is taking it next month.   Tahnee: (35:12) Oh good.   Jinti Fell: (35:14) Sexual Mastery for Men.   Tahnee: (35:18) I find the, I think what you are talking about in terms of that exploration of pleasure and then, because to get really personal here, with my first pregnancy I was so horny, and the last, I don't know, month, I remember being ridiculously insatiable and it was quite confronting for Mason. I think he was like, "I need to [crosstalk 00:35:43]."   Jinti Fell: (35:43) It was like, yeah, I love that.   Tahnee: (35:50) I think he was a bit like, "Ah." I was like, "Hmm." I just remember being ridiculous, but I was kind of a bit afraid of that and a bit ashamed if I'm really honest. And I'm really interested to say if that repeats this time and also how I'm able to embody that more this time, because I just think it was my first pregnancy. I was new to it all, it was just not something that I expected, and it's not something you hear spoken to very often. Most people I know growing up and stuff like, "Oh, you don't want to have sex when you're pregnant." I'm like, "Oh my God, what are you talking about?" Be like-   Jinti Fell: (36:24) Can't relate.   Tahnee: (36:29) Can't relate. It's awkward, and you have a huge belly or whatever, but you work it out.   Jinti Fell: (36:32) Yeah.   Tahnee: (36:34) Yeah, and we made love that night, even during my labour and stuff too. And I remember people were sort of, a few people I have shared that with being very kind of surprised and yeah, anyway, it's just something I've reflected on a lot since having Aiya.   Jinti Fell: (36:46) Yeah.   Tahnee: (36:47) I've really want to allow that energy in this time and bring. If you have some thoughts about that, I'd love to hear?   Jinti Fell: (36:54) That makes me so happy. I think it's so beautiful. And isn't it crazy to think that, how we made the baby, that's okay. But that energy can't be transferred to how we give birth and you've been talking about orgasmic birth or whatnot. I was laughing with my sister about it. I was like, "Gosh, the other birth I shared that was controversial enough to a lot of people." So I'm like, "I can't post an orgasmic birth." How absurd it is that we cannot share that something was actually pleasurable, but it would be completely okay to share something really painful.   Tahnee: (37:39) Yeah, got it.   Jinti Fell: (37:40) Yeah, my journey this time has really been about connecting with my cervix and my womb space and exploring that sexual energy. And for me so much shame as well, just as you mentioned, because yeah. And also there's a separation between growing a baby and also being a sexual woman, which is absurd as well really. But yeah, I've been exploring that a lot myself, and even if my libido is ... I don't have a really high libido, I'm still wanting to engage because it's something that I'm really trying to cultivate in this sexual life, that creative energy. And it feels like that's very important for my birth preparation this time. I don't want that space, that core where our child was conceived to be something that I'm unfamiliar with and expect to be able to have a pleasurable birth. So I'm not sure where I was going with that, but.   Tahnee: (39:03) It makes a lot of sense I think. You're just mentioning keeping that sort of sexual energy present through the pregnancy. And I mean, whatever tradition you're looking at, the [inaudible 00:39:13] you know, that creative force, that's what drives labour. That's what drives birth, that's what drives any reproduction on the cellular level, any force of manifestation. I mean, it's quite potent to work with that energy, I think in pregnancy. And I mean, it's definitely, I don't think spoken enough about, even in my midwifery care they didn't mention sex once the whole time and I thought that was interesting and not something I guess I brought up because I didn't feel the need to discuss it with them, but I was, it's like, it's curious.   Tahnee: (39:47) And I think Sarah Buckley talks about it in her work on hormones, but the same hormones present in a sexual experience, like a pleasant sexual experience, are the same hormones that drive birth. So if you're able to kind of remember that and remember those conditions to have a pleasant sexual experience, which is usually low light and intimacy and sort of your own space and those kinds of things, they're the same things that are going to be conducive to a healthy birth. There's a lot of correlation there for me. And again, you go into a hospital, it's bright lights, air conditioning, not a great place to get it on, so it's not a great place to have a baby.   Jinti Fell: (40:29) Yeah. It's not just like an opening space, another place around for you.   Tahnee: (40:37) I mean, in terms of I think your, if you're doing your own prenatal care and these things, and I know, are you guys still plant-based, is that still a part of your life?   Jinti Fell: (40:49) No, I was like, I think we're going to talk about this.   Tahnee: (40:52) Oh we don't have to. But I'm always curious about prenatal nutrition and stuff. So I'm interested to hear.   Jinti Fell: (41:00) Of course, yeah. No, we aren't. And we were for, well, I was sort of raised mostly vegetarian and then I became more strictly vegetarian when I was my teen years and stuff y'all would go and find McDonald's or whatever. But within our home my mom has been vegetarian my whole life and we had mostly vegetarian meals. And then when I was, I think 18, I became a strict vegetarian. And then up and before my pregnancy with my first daughter, I cut out fully plant-based. And then it was, gosh, it must have been about four and a half years of that. I am linked to her birth as well, because in my pregnancy that was one of the things that was coming up for me was these cravings that I was having for eggs. And I remember my dad was eating scrambled eggs and I was watching him and I was annoyed at him.   Jinti Fell: (42:12) I was, I wanted it so bad, but I was just like, and just I denied that in myself because I was more latched onto the idea of right and wrong and a labelled then listening to myself within my diet, it was more black and white, like right and wrong. And I didn't have this idea that you couldn't be healthy to eat animal products or anything. I saw plenty of people eating animal products that were extremely healthy, but it was more just morally I think, growing up vegetarian and just, I had this real blockage and I still at times do with eating animals or eating animal products, but yeah-   Tahnee: (43:06) I was amazed a lot of the time too.   Jinti Fell: (43:09) Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I know that you were vegetarian, I've listened to you speak about [crosstalk 00:43:14]. I was, yeah, so I'm sure you can relate a lot. But yeah, it got to the point where I was like, I knew when my son was born that I would not raise him vegan. And I said it to Chris and he was really shocked by that. I'm someone that is just more or open to change and growing and Chris is too, but when he's comfortable, he's happy being comfortable for a while. So yeah, I just, it was really humbling. And I realised how much of my identity that I had. How much I identified as who I am or who I was then with veganism in a lot of ways. And so I didn't act on anything for way too long really, because I just kept thinking, I would get into my head thinking it was just wrong and I couldn't and yeah, over the time, I think I woke up one morning and I just said to Chris, "I'm going to eat a steak. It's just this insatiable desire within me."   Jinti Fell: (44:48) And I was looking around me also at the time, this was me considering this for probably close to a year and looking around me at the people in my life, which were a lot of the people in my life who were also eating vegan diets or plant-based diets and having a lot of questions coming up about their health, I suppose. And just looking around me, I really prefer to, I'm really drawn to people who just radiate health. They're not talking so much about it and like, "Do this, do that. Don't do that." But I'm just like, "Oh, what are you doing? You are really healthy, I can tell." And I wasn't seeing that within the plant-based community. I just, something had shifted in me. And I started opening to the other side, I suppose, and seeing things weren't so black and white.   Jinti Fell: (45:49) So I incorporated some, I had a steak and Chris knew, I knew I had it. And I just was like, "Whoa, whoa." And even now I go back and forth because in my pregnancy, sorry, early pregnancy this time around, I'm 31 weeks now, so, I had really bad morning sickness at the start and it felt like, "Okay, it shouldn't have to be like this, there's got to be something, this is a message." And I was not having any animal products again, just because I seem to just drift back there, and yeah. And I was like, "Okay, I need to make some changes." And I did. Those are quite a few different things that I did that I started incorporating some animal products and broths and things back in, and within days just started feeling better.   Jinti Fell: (47:11) So my focus now is really about just feeling nourished. And I really, I can struggle with this so much though. I don't know if I'll ever be someone that can just eat meat and not be like, I don't know, it's a real struggle for me, but at the same time it's been so humbling. And I see now that things aren't black and white. And that I have no idea what is best for someone else, but I need to really honour my own feelings. And I will mention as well, because I did speak about Chris earlier that it's a lot easier to see things going on in other people that you're spending so much time with. And I was looking at him being like, "No, no, this isn't," he's not thriving. And I could just see it in him in so many ways.   Jinti Fell: (48:23) And yeah, looking back now, how I felt and all sorts of different things I was experiencing from, I felt like I couldn't speak, I was recording videos all the time and I couldn't find words. My brain was just through, I had absolutely no appetite in my postpartum. I just couldn't think of a single thing that I could eat. And there was so much going on that was leading, guiding me to open up my mind a little more. And it took me a lot of time, but I think we're in a much, much better place with it all now as a family.   Tahnee: (49:10) I think it takes years to get comfortable. I mean, especially what you're saying about that morality and I don't think that ever goes away, but it's something I think, for me, it's really weird, I had an experience on [inaudible 00:49:28] one time where I was like, "Maybe this just like prana or like anything else," that really sounds ridiculous. But I was in the fridge where this bag of chicken that was sitting on a plate at this retreat centre, and the chicken was sparkling and alive. And I was looking at this strawberry that was over in a fruit bowl and the chicken, they were like the same thing. And I was like, "Oh, just the same thing," and I'd had this huge kind of shift. Well, yeah. I mean, it still took me a long time, but I still don't feel super comfortable. But yeah, it was a really good remembering for me that it's human morality that has created this programming in me.   Tahnee: (50:10) And it's not a natural programme that, for me, I'm not saying for anybody else, for myself, that programme isn't relevant. And it took me kind of quite a while to sort of accept that. And yeah, I mean, were you raised, is it a spiritual reason your mum was vegetarian or more kind of just a health reason, or?   Jinti Fell: (50:31) I would say both.   Tahnee: (50:32) Yeah.   Jinti Fell: (50:34) Yeah.   Tahnee: (50:34) Because if it's tied into spirituality and into your kind of belief systems, it's a tricky one.   Jinti Fell: (50:42) Yeah, I-   Tahnee: (50:45) Do you have a spiritual container for the family or is it more your own kind of evolution? I noticed you sort of stretched, you don't really do yoga. Like [inaudible 00:50:54]. Didn't you guys do everything you do.   Jinti Fell: (51:00) I am really drawn to, I love learning about different spiritual practises and religions. And I suppose more recently exploring my beliefs around God and learning about Jesus and reading parts of the Bible, which is more recent, but it's just. And in the past I studied yoga, I absolutely loved yoga. I feel like it was a massive catalyst for huge changes in my life. And then more recently I don't practise yoga in the sense of, I just sort of stretch in nature and do my own thing, but yeah, no, we don't really have any particular container that we identify as. But there's lots of different ways that we live that I like to incorporate, I suppose, practises and just more mindfulness with our family. But I always just go back to the place where I'm like, "Okay, I just don't know anything. No matter what I explore, I'm just like, I don't know anything."   Tahnee: (52:20) I think that's the, I mean, every tradition points to that as being to be, so you never know, you think you know it all, I mean maybe at least someone's going to tell you you're wrong. That's been my experience. And I mean, how, in terms of with your kids, I know you guys are sort of homeschooling or again, predictions from the internet, but this is what I'm understanding of how you guys are choosing to live. Do you plan on being sort of stationary for a while or will you get back on the road when you can, or what's for you guys next? You don't know.   Jinti Fell: (52:58) It's one of those things that, when I try to figure it out and make decisions, it just gets more and more blurry and I'm like, "Okay, let's just see what unfolds." I have a bit of a dream at the moment of getting a caravan and doing a lap of Australia for 12 months after my initial sort of a couple of months postpartum and just spending that 12 months together homeschooling as we go. But it'll just be five of us as a family for that first 12 months. I'm like, "That sounds awesome." And that's definitely something that we're considering doing, but our probably long-term goal and focus is on finding the right bit of land for our family and having roots. And just after travelling for so long, I think it was over four years really, just having roots and having community, it's such a beautiful thing. And our kids are just thriving from that at this stage of their lives. To do a trip around [inaudible 00:54:21] but it's not something I think I would do.   Jinti Fell: (54:22) Travel indefinitely or anything any longer. We'd just be having our home base as well. But we're definitely just navigating homeschooling/unschooling. It is probably more homeschooling, because my daughter seems to really love some more structured stuff, so.   Tahnee: (54:47) I loved school too, so.   Jinti Fell: (54:51) Yeah, we'll see how it unfolds, yeah.   Tahnee: (54:54) Yeah, I think that sounds really like, I mean, that was my experience with Aiya. Mason and I had all these, "We'll travel, we'll do this." And we moved into a cul-de-sac and she's like, "This is my place. I love the cul-de-sac. I love my neighbours." I'm just like, "Wow, this is so funny." And we're very fortunate, but yeah, that sort of, I get a little taste of that village, like she can go across the road for an hour and hang out with another mom and it's quite amazing to have that. Especially, we don't have a lot of family close by, so there's something really powerful for us in that. And I've actually really embraced. I'm like, "I kind of moved into this suburban thing." I never thought I'd be the one to say it, but I like it. And it helps that we're in a very rural area, so it's not proper suburbia, but yeah, there's something really lovely about it, I think, so.   Jinti Fell: (55:46) Yes, I agree. And sometimes I think the whole full-time travel, just being on the road is honestly, that's me. I get itchy feet. I need to be exploring and I love going to new places and stuff, but it can be really glamorised often, but it can be really hard with kids and stuff. So you're just like, "Oh my gosh, just let me, give me a hot shower, a washing machine." And yeah, there's definitely.   Tahnee: (56:19) Pros and cons.   Jinti Fell: (56:20) Just yeah, pros and cons, yeah.   Tahnee: (56:23) And I have a running joke about hashtag home life whenever we use the washing machine or something. Because we both lived in a kombi before and I mean, it was a lot of fun. Didn't have kids. It was easier, but yeah there's something about the comforts sometimes.   Jinti Fell: (56:35) Yeah.   Tahnee: (56:35) Like, "This is nice."   Jinti Fell: (56:39) Yeah, this is totally. Yeah, I can agree with that.   Tahnee: (56:45) And a sandy bed every night.   Jinti Fell: (56:47) Yeah.   Tahnee: (56:48) Any chance. Well, thank you so much, Jinti. I don't want to keep you too much longer, but I wondered if there was anywhere. Do you guys have any offerings or ways for people to connect to you so that they can ... You're just, I think you're really the embodiment of someone who really lives from their truth. And I know you said you sort of find yourself listening to other people, but I've always seen it in you that you have this really amazing ability to regulate. And I remember speaking to you about veganism a while ago and you're like, "Oh, I'm not sure how I'm feeling." But you navigated always such grace and you don't, there's no morality in your decision-making, it seems to just really arise from you. So I just really want to acknowledge that and honour that in you, because I think as a role model and as a woman, as a mother, that they're really beautiful things to embody. So, thank you. And I'd love if you want to let us know where we could connect with you or find you. I know you're on social media obviously, but anywhere else?   Jinti Fell: (57:45) Well, thank you so much. That's so nice of you to say and share. I'm not really anywhere else. I have great plans and ideas. Like I was saying, we've just sort of moved away from what we were doing and we're in the space of like, "Well, what's next for us? And what do we want to create now?" So that's sort of still in that phase, but the only place people can really find me online right now is on Instagram. But we do have our YouTube videos. If anyone wanted to watch the birth of my son or anything. I think there's a version of it on our YouTube channel still, so. And I also share the stories of both my pregnancies and births over there as well. So if people are interested in that sort of stuff, yeah it's still up and available.   Tahnee: (58:41) Yeah, awesome. And I'll link to all of those in the show notes and your Instagram and yeah, if you're listening and you want to connect with Jinti, get online and follow her and I'm sure you and Chris will come up with amazing offerings in the future,when you're done making babies. It's pretty time-consuming making lots of children. So happy for you guys there. I'm really, I'm sending you lots of love and best wishes for your next too.   Jinti Fell: (59:08) Well thank you so much. And yes, sending love back to you and so excited for you about too already with your pregnancy journey.   Tahnee: (59:18) I'm waiting for something to kick in, morning sickness, but it hasn't happened.   Jinti Fell: (59:18) No, it's still coming, it's still coming.   Tahnee: (59:24) I'll be calling you. What did you eat? I have a friend who's pregnant with twins right now. And she had a lot of morning sickness for about 17 weeks or something. And we were eating [inaudible 00:59:37] and just trying broth and I don't know.   Jinti Fell: (59:40) Yeah.   Tahnee: (59:41) Whatever works. But yeah. Just gotta get through it sometimes.   Jinti Fell: (59:44) Yes.   Tahnee: (59:46) All right. Well, lots of love, Jinti. Thank you so much again for your time and yeah, will speak to you soon.   Jinti Fell: (59:50) Thank you. Bye.   For more details go to: https://www.superfeast.com.au/blogs/superblog/jinti-fell-podcast  

Understanding exactly what is going on within our bodies as cyclical beings is incredibly profound - in fact it's life altering, and potentially culturally transformational.  When the majority of girls grow up feeling very disconnected from their bodies and reject their menstrual cycles, as they are overwhelmed by cultural and familial menstrual shame, the effects of this play out in a multitude of ways across all realms of our lives. So by learning what your period is, and what your menstrual cycle is as a whole, and intentionally supporting and seeking support during our rites of passages is a sacred reclamation. From the cycle being recognised at the fifth vital sign of health for women and girls, to healing ancestral patterns, I explain why everyone - not just those who have a cycle - should care about periods. If you loved this episode, please leave a 5* rating and review, subscribe and share this with someone who would love to tune in. Thanks so much, - Charlotte xLINKS:To cultivate your relationship to your womb, feminine power through your menstrual and the moon's cycle, download your free guide by subscribing at www.charlottepointeaux.com. Come find me on Instagram at www.instagram.com/charlotte.pointeaux.coachTo find a First Moon Circle Facilitator near you, or to become a Certified Facilitator yourself, discover more at www.firstmooncircles.com and on instagram www.instagram.com/first_moon_circles Jane Hardwicke-Collings https://www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings/ Sharon Woolley Cycle Coach, Naturopath and First Moon Circle Facilitator Training https://www.instagram.com/_sharon_woolley_/The fifth vital sign of health https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2015/12/menstruation-in-girls-and-adolescents-using-the-menstrual-cycle-as-a-vital-signThanks so much as ever for supporting me to host Wild Flow Podcast! It means such a lot to receive your ratings, reviews, and to be tagged in your IG stories @charlotte.pointeaux.coach! Please share with your soul sisters who are learning to honour their cycles and live as an embodied cyclical woman too, so they can receive the wisdom they're searching for. Find the full show notes at https://charlottepointeaux.com/podcast/ Charlotte xxx PS: Would you love to belong to a soul-nourishing sisterhood of women who are deeply connected to their inner seasons, cycles and body's wisdom? If so, I'd love to invite you to become a treasured member of our Wild Flow Coven membership and Subscribe for your free cycle magick rituals guides. Want to dive deeper and be held in your own private container for inner healing? Find my coaching and programs here at https://charlottepointeaux.com/coaching/

Yes but also for their mothers and fathers, and also community members. We're talking about Menarche, AKA the first period or start of the menstrual cycle. This is the final episode our 3 part series on Mensturation.  Jane teaches us that its sooo much more then just a girl starting to bleed, its about rights of passage, its about bonding, its about deeply connecting to ourselves, to our Earth and to our communities!!! This is an INVALUABLE conversation for all parents and young women to listen to! Its more of mastermind class (for FREE!) then it is a podcast episode! PLEASE share this is everyone who is a leadership role for young girls (mothers, grandmothers, aunties, family friends, counsellors, teachers, youth leaders...). I hope you take as much away from this conversation as I did! Episode Highlight:Puberty 101!! What girls can expect as they experience puberty and their menarche. Where menstrual taboo originated. The physiological and energetic explanations of What is a mentrual cycle is. Why do girls mensturate before their bodies are ready to have babies? The Moon 101.  How artificial light affects our menstural cycles.Women's cycles synching with each other.The easiest simplest way to explain our cycles! “Be with what IS. Not what you wish it would be” Period Party Good Times! Fun but also CRUCIAL for this right of passage! The damage that happens when we are not celebrating girls menarche!The importance of getting menarche right for future of that girl! Call to action for mothers to heal their own menarche wounds so they can truly celebrate their daughter's rights of passages. The ways our ancestors horoured this right of passage How a modern family night celebrate menarche.The BEAUTIFUL way Jane's community celebrated girls and boys right of passages into adulthood! It brought me to tears! Actually!The most IMPORTANT piece of information for girls to know as they enter this new stage of living. https://www.redschool.net/product/wild-power-bookhttp://laraowen.com/her-blood-is-gold/https://janehardwickecollings.com/product/becoming-a-woman-a-guide-for-girls-approaching-menstruation-book-and-ebook/https://janehardwickecollings.com/product/herstory-book-audiobook-ebook/https://janehardwickecollings.com/product/mother-natures-wisdom-childrens-book/ Get bonus content on Patreon See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

This is Part 2 of Jane Hardwicke Collings HERstory. If you haven’t listened to episode 35 yet, please go back and listen. That is Part 1. Find me on social media to share your thoughts on this story, and this episode. I hope this story allows you to find the feminine within and without. Reconnect to nature, the waters, the land, the unseen, the lunar cycle, the wheel of life and so much more. Enjoy the episode! Intro: Medicina Mix- Roots of the Earth Outro: Medicina Mix-Roots of the Earth LEAVE A COMMENT ON APPLE PODCASTS and/or tag me in your IG story, to receive 20% off an Ayurvedic Consultation or Distance Reiki Sound Healing Session. Follow me at: Website: www.ancientmedicinalsveda.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wild.mama.love/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/casey.buccino/ The Ancient Healing Modern World Podcast is not meant to treat, cure, or prevent disease. It is for educational purposes only. Please consult with your doctor before trying any herb, special diet, or yoga exercise. This podcast may contain information or content relating to various health conditions and lifestyle practices. Such information is for informational purposes only and is not meant to be a substitute for health advice from a licensed healthcare professional. The owner of the podcast and show guests always ask that you consult the care of a licensed professional before beginning any diet or alternative healing medicine.

In todays episode I read for you HERstory Womanifesto by Jane Hardwicke Collings. This is Part 1 of a 2 Part Episode. HERstory is about the erasure of the feminine over the last 3000 years. How it started, what happened, by whom, where, and how we move forward in InnerStanding. Enjoy the episode! Intro: Medicina Mix- Roots of the Earth Outro: Medicina Mix-Roots of the Earth LEAVE A COMMENT ON APPLE PODCASTS and/or tag me in your IG story, to receive 20% off an Ayurvedic Consultation or Distance Reiki Sound Healing Session. Follow me at: Website: www.ancientmedicinalsveda.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wild.mama.love/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/casey.buccino/ The Ancient Healing Modern World Podcast is not meant to treat, cure, or prevent disease. It is for educational purposes only. Please consult with your doctor before trying any herb, special diet, or yoga exercise. This podcast may contain information or content relating to various health conditions and lifestyle practices. Such information is for informational purposes only and is not meant to be a substitute for health advice from a licensed healthcare professional. The owner of the podcast and show guests always ask that you consult the care of a licensed professional before beginning any diet or alternative healing medicine.

In todays episode we take a short look at history to ask the question "When did we begin to call the natural world dirty, unsafe, unclean?" When did we begin to be disguisted by our own bodily processes and functions? The hair on our bodies, our sweat, elimination, Bleeding times and even BIRTH?!. This is a prelude into a deeper look at history that I will present in a 2 part episode as I read for you "HERstory" by Jane Hardwicke Collings. (Stay Tuned) Enjoy the Episode!! Intro: Medicina Mix- Roots of the Earth Outro: Medicina Mix-Roots of the Earth LEAVE A COMMENT ON APPLE PODCASTS and/or tag me in your IG story, to receive 20% off an Ayurvedic Consultation or Distance Reiki Sound Healing Session. Follow me at: Website: www.ancientmedicinalsveda.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wild.mama.love/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/casey.buccino/ The Ancient Healing Modern World Podcast is not meant to treat, cure, or prevent disease. It is for educational purposes only. Please consult with your doctor before trying any herb, special diet, or yoga exercise. This podcast may contain information or content relating to various health conditions and lifestyle practices. Such information is for informational purposes only and is not meant to be a substitute for health advice from a licensed healthcare professional. The owner of the podcast and show guests always ask that you consult the care of a licensed professional before beginning any diet or alternative healing medicine.

It might surprise you to hear that menopause is even more transformative then birth(I know it surprised me)! its more then just bitchy attitudes and hot flashes. It's our final right of passage (other then our death) and it's when we FULLY step into our power as a woman! You're the most powerful, intuitive, magical and spiritually strong then at any other time of your life! Which sounds so wonderful doesn't it?! So why do we know NOTHING about it until we're deep in it?! Why the SILENCE around it? Why the SECRETS? Why the SHAME?! Jane and I unravel all of this and so much more in this informative, thought provoking and hilarious conversation! Some of the topics we cover:Whats happening spiritually as well as biologically during Menopause.Jane's personal experience with menopause.Toxic language around Menopause.Why women stop giving a F#$%.A Riddle: What do 3pm and Menopause have in common?Wisdom shared by a Aborigine Elder.Why some women struggle and other breeze through.What's up with the belly fat.How the negative societal outlook on Menopause has caused damage to us all.Helpful self care tips for; Exercise, Nutrition, Sleep, Spirituality, Sexuality.Hot Flashes and how to you them in your personal work.Changing your time zone to Moon Time.Whats waiting for us on the other side of Menopause!Links:https://www.patreon.com/wtwwghttps://janehardwickecollings.thinkific.com/courses/autumn-woman-harvest-queenhttps://www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings/https://www.instagram.com/drchristianenorthrup/ Get bonus content on Patreon See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Jane Hardwicke Collings has been supporting women for decades! She was a home birth midwife, and now is the author of several books and comics, the founder of Shamanic School of Womancraft, facilitates workshops around the globe, and has a more e-course then you can shake a stick at! THIS WOMAN KNOWS HER STUFF! She's as compassionate as she is wise, and her words are worth your undivided attention! In this episode Jane and I talk about... A LOT, but in particular, how our blood as women is our rights of passages, each time we bleed! We talk about viewing our monthly cycles through the lens of nature. We talk about menstrual shame. We talk about the devastaing effects of hormonal birth control and other environmental factors on our reproductive system. We talk about parenting while menstruating (do you let your children know when you have your period?) and many other fascinating and sometimes taboo topics. https://www.patreon.com/creator-homehttps://www.instagram.com/wherethewildwomengrow/https://janehardwickecollings.comhttps://www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings/ Get bonus content on Patreon See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In this episode, we have Jane Harwicke-Collings.Jane is a grandmother, former midwife, teacher, writer and menstrual educator. She gives workshops in Australia and internationally on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth, and menopause a modern-day Women's Mysteries Teacher.Jane is an inspiration to many, a pioneer in the field and I just loved our conversation.We go on a deep dive through the mysteries of women and how we can tap into our feminine power and knowledge.Jane shares practical tools that can help you on your healing journey, through tapping into our cycles, moon cycles, menstruation, seasons and even within the day. When we tap into our cyclical nature, there is true power and healing potential. We can begin to understand ourselves on a deeper level.We talk about the seasons of a women's life, rites of passage and about healing wounds that may have occurred around these times and how moving forward we can begin honour these rites of passage with rituals.And so much more. This is really a beautiful conversation, not to be missed!Connect with Jane:Website: https://janehardwickecollings.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings/School of Shamanic Womancraft: https://schoolofshamanicwomancraft.comFind out more about:Birthing in New Earth -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/birthing_in_new_earth/Missed the September 2020 gathering. Click here to get the all access package:https://birthing-in-new-earth-talk-gathering.heysummit.comThe host Samantha -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samantha.briatico/Website: https://www.samanthabriatico.com

Jane Hardwicke Collings is a former home birth midwife, teacher, writer and menstrual educator. She gives workshops Internationally on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred and shamanic dimensions of pregnancy and birth and menopause. Jane founded and runs The School of Shamanic Womancraft (formerly The School of Shamanic Midwifery), which prepares women to practice and teach the Women’s Mysteries and midwife the soul. Jane is the author of Ten Moons, the Inner Journey of Pregnancy, Thirteen Moons, How to chart your menstrual cycle, Spinning Wheels (a guide to the cycles), and Becoming a Woman (for girls approaching menstruation). "Knowing that you can trust your instincts and that you need to trust your instincts, that's when you have the next level experience...You are the expert of yourself" Join us for a powerful discussion about connections between cycle, energy and our ability to create and learn the most valuable lesson of all: "Look after the things you create." Here are the details of this episode: Jane’s shamanic abilities in the core of her superpower What are the seasons of life Jane’s recipe on how to go deep within (there is some serious brainwave talk there!) How can you avoid 'outsourcing' children while having a career Jane walks Anna through her birth story and what she can learn from it Menopause and beyond. What’s different for women besides not having their period? What does it mean to be a creatix? And a lot more... Links Jane's Website Herstory - Audiobook with Free E-book Labour Hacks PDF & Guided Drum Journey + Drumming for Labour AUDIO P.S. Sign up for the free, exclusive training from me on How to Start Attracting Committed Masculine Men By Releasing Control & Letting Him Lead  to find out: The #1 reason successful women are still single and can’t attract a committed masculine man (hint: it’s not what you think) How to break through the patterns of attracting unavailable or feminine men and find your blind spot so you start attracting the men you want How to master the art of feminine/masculine polarity so you start feeling taken care of, claimed and finally be able to let go of control How to get out of the “get the guy” mindset and instead move into your full feminine self and have the guy get you Uncover The Lie of Female Success that’s keeping you stuck, exhausted and unfulfilled (in masculine energy all the time) so you can start living in freedom & joy And much more… Sign up at girlskill.com/webinar

Today marks a special 100 episodes of the SuperFeast podcast, that's 100 episodes of inspiring conversations with brilliant humans progressing the world through health and wellness! Over the past 100 episodes, the SuperFeast podcast has had hundreds of thousands of downloads and connected with people from Nigeria to Greenland. This evolving journey wouldn't be what it is without you, the listeners, your interaction, and the energy you bring to this space. On Today's podcast our favourite dynamic duo, Tahnee and Mason sit down for a reflective conversation on the journey thus far; the most listened to episodes, the guests that filled them up, and exciting prospects for the future of SuperFeast podcasts. It's always magic when Tahnee and Mason share the mic, and with the 100th episode and a new year ahead of us, it's a perfectly aligned reason to have them back on the podcast connecting with the SuperFeast community.   Tahnee and Mason discuss: Reflections of the SuperFeast podcast, looking back six years from the Mason Taylor Show to now.   The evolution of the podcast landscape over this space in time. The most popular episodes/guests and the topics that consistently resonate with listeners (we've linked them all in the resources below). Health protocols in our ever-changing contemporary landscape; intentionally creating a healthy space to continue questioning beliefs, integrate opposing ideas, and move into a place of harmony, which is in alignment with every traditional system.  The guests that influenced and cultivated Tahnee and Mason's introspective journeys. Navigating the newly emerging health scape where holistic traditions are being meshed with more reductionist methods. The Women's Series; Tahnee's journey through the many dimensions of experience her guests have brought and the gift of sharing space with women who have so much wisdom to offer. Future directions and Visions. Sex; a popular topic that always gets ratings.  Gratitude and the value of reviews.    Tahnee and Mason Taylor Tahnee and Mason Taylor (recently married!) are the founder and CEO of SuperFeast (respectively). Their mission with SuperFeast is to improve the health, healing, and happiness of people and the planet, through sharing carefully curated offerings and practices that honour ancient wisdom and elevate the human spirit. Together Tahnee and Mason run their company and host the SuperFeast podcast, weaving their combined experience in herbs, yoga, wellness, Taoist healing arts, and personal development with lucid and compelling interviews from all around the world. They are the proud parents of Aiya and Goji, the dog, and are grateful to call the Byron Shire home. MasonTaylor Mason Taylor is the founder of SuperFeast. Mason d to the ideas of potentiating the human experience through his mum Janesse (who was a big inspiration for founding SuperFeast and is still an inspiration to Mason and his team due to her ongoing resilience in the face of disability). After traveling South America for a year, Mason found himself struggling with his health - he was worn out, carried fungal infections, and was only 22. He realised that he had the power to take control of his health. Mason redirected his attention from his business degree and night work in a bar to begin what was to become more than a decade of health research, courses, education, and mentorship from some of the leaders in personal development, wellness, and tonic herbalism. Inspired by the own changes to his health and wellbeing through his journey (which also included Yoga teacher training and raw foodism!), he started SuperFeast in 2010. Initially offering a selection of superfoods, herbs, and supplements to support detox, immune function, and general wellbeing. Mason offered education programs around Australia, and it was on one of these trips that he met Tahnee, who is now his wife and CEO of SuperFeast. Mason also offered detox and health transformation retreats in the Byron hinterland (some of which Tahnee also worked on, teaching Yoga and workshops on Taoist healing practices, as well as offering Chi Nei Tsang treatments to participants). After falling in love with the Byron Shire, Mason moved SuperFeast from Sydney's Northern Beaches to Byron Bay in 2015. He lived on a majestic permaculture farm in the Byron hinterland, and after not too long, Tahnee joined him (and their daughter, Aiya was conceived). The rest is history - from a friend's rented garage to a warehouse in the Byron Industrial Estate to SuperFeast's current home in Mullumbimby's beautiful Food Hub, SuperFeast (and Mason) has thrived in the conscious community of the Northern Rivers. Mason continues to evolve his role at SuperFeast, in education, sourcing, training, and creating the formulas based on Taoist principles of tonic herbalism. Tahnee Taylor Tahnee Taylor is the CEO of SuperFeast and has been exploring health and human consciousness since her late teens. From Yoga, which she first practiced at school in 2000, to reiki, herbs, meditation, Taoist and Tantric practices, and human physiology, her journey has taken her all over. This journey continues to expand her understanding and insight into the majesty (that is) the human body and the human experience. Tahnee graduated with a Journalism major and did a stint in non-fiction publishing (working with health and wellness authors and other inspiring creatives), advertising, many jobs in cafes, and eventually found herself as a Yoga teacher. Her first studio, Yoga for All, opened in 2013, and Tahnee continues to study Yoga with her teachers Paul + Suzee Grilley and Rod Stryker. She learned Chi Nei Tsang and Taoist healing practices from Master Mantak Chia. Tahnee continues to study herbalism and Taoist practices, the human body, women's wisdom, ancient healing systems, and is currently enrolled in an acupuncture degree and year-long program with The Shamanic School of Womancraft. Tahnee is the mother of one, a 4-year old named Aiya.   Resources: The Power of Menopause with Jane Hardwicke Collings (EP#77) Life-Changing Sex Makes Anything Possible with Kim Anami (EP#28) Yin Yoga with Anatomist and Yogi Paul Grilley (EP#59) Why Chinese Medicine is Failing Us with Rhonda Chang (EP#80) Ayurveda and Yoga-The Healing Arts with Myra Lewin From Hale Pule (EP#55) Reclaiming Pureness and Sovereign Living with Jessika Le Corre (EP#96) Tools For Healthy Living with Dr. Claudia Welch (EP#32) Authentic Sex with Juliet Allen (EP#31) Embodied Movement with The Movement Monk Benny Fergusson (EP#56) Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:01) Hi everyone. I'm here with Mason.   Mason: (00:04) Hi guys. How are you?   Tahnee: (00:05) Yay. And it's episode 100, which means we've made it through 100 interviews and chats with each other and others. And we just wanted to check in with you guys today because I was laughing to myself thinking about when Mason first tried to get me on the podcast and I was moy resistant as they say in Spanish. And I have really enjoyed it, actually, coming full circle and have had some amazing chats and have really enjoyed the opportunity to get clear on my voice and my interview style and how we connect with people and sharing it with you guys.   Mason: (00:49) Yeah, it's been great watching you step into that side of yourself because you asked great questions.   Tahnee: (00:54) So do you.   Mason: (00:55) Thank you.   Tahnee: (00:56) And it's really cool. I remember when I first met Mase about six years ago, he was doing a podcasting course, I think, or kind of interested in starting his own podcast or maybe you were in a mastermind group or something.   Mason: (01:10) I didn't go that far. I just signed up for the free seven steps-   Tahnee: (01:15) Trial.   Mason: (01:16) No, just a little guide, seven steps to set up your podcast. Went and did that with... Can't remember who it was through, but it was just one of those ones. It just popped up in a-   Tahnee: (01:25) An ad or something.   Mason: (01:26) Yeah, it was an ad and I was like, hmm, not bad.   Tahnee: (01:29) Yeah and I remember you had the Mason Taylor Show and if you're listening and you haven't checked out that stuff that was from probably five or six years ago now. And I remember having listened to podcasts, but I think it was not what they are now where they're just abundant in all spheres. It's been really cool to be involved peripherally and then more closely lately as SuperFeast podcast has evolved. And we're really excited about the next 100 episodes.   Mason: (02:02) Doing the podcast five years ago, it's interesting. It's a similar feeling to when I started SuperFeast and I was like, ah, it's probably not appropriate to sell medicinal mushrooms because the market seems saturated already. And then you fast forward five years and you're like, ah, no, that was like-   Tahnee: (02:20) [crosstalk 00:02:20]-   Mason: (02:20) Yeah. And like five years ago I was like, oh my gosh, there's a bajillion podcasts out there, but it wasn't at the point now where it felt something where it's accessible for absolutely everyone, to do it. It didn't feel natural. It didn't feel as much stepping out on a ledge.   Tahnee: (02:39) And I think, obviously, as a medium, it's just ballooned and it's been such an interesting thing to observe and we're talking the SuperFeast podcast, hundreds of thousands of downloads. People listening, I was looking at the country map before we jumped on, from all over the world from Nigeria to Greenland. I don't even know if people live in Greenland, but all over the place. It's quite wild to me to see how diverse and vast our listenership is. And even the topics that have really resonated with you guys because I guess we would not have picked them, but then looking at the statistics, we've got the semen retention and some of the episodes on sex, especially Kim Anami and Juliet Allen are really popular with you guys. And then female hormones, obviously a massive topic and one that are really of interest to the people listening to us. That's been, I think, a really interesting thing to reflect on as-   Mason: (03:38) Well, the interesting thing with the SuperFeast podcast is we didn't really have a strategy, which is something. It's like, all right, we'll take 100 episode kinda settler. And in terms of, strategically, it being like a marketing tool for the business, you would've thought that we would have sat down and gone, right, we're going to do these kinds of interviews with these kinds of people, these kinds of topics, but we didn't do that at all.   Tahnee: (04:07) People we're fans of or that we think would be interesting guests-   Mason: (04:09) Which I think that's a huge reason. For some people, I don't know, maybe for some of you, you wanted to hear about herbs and that's something that I've strayed from, but you can see we're in some of the top podcasts. It's the Reishi one, the Chaga one, ashwagandha-   Tahnee: (04:31) Cannabis-   Mason: (04:32) Yeah and then then like, cannabis is a little bit different, but yeah, nonetheless, it's something that I'd love to hear from you guys if those, even if it's just like a rapid fire, me talking about a particular herbal, Tahnee talking about a particular herb, if you want to hear a little bit more about that, I'd be super stoked to jump in there and do that. But it's been part of the beauty and I think part of the reason we've been... I think we've got so much structure in many areas of life. It's been it's in the business getting more structure in place in the business.   Mason: (05:07) It's nice having this open book, chaotic world and even though what I was saying is I think maybe there's a few of you listening, it'd be great to hear if you feel like more consistency is something that keeps you there, but I think it's been a huge reason why the podcast resonates with so many people is just this like open field of possible ideas and bringing the guys in and talking about Ayurveda and then classical Chinese medicine and then bringing naturopaths in. And we don't try and layer all these things on top of each other and make it fit a particular idea around health. It's just going out and exploring what's out there, which I feel like I've needed that in the podcast and it's helped me keep me motivated and [inaudible 00:05:54].   Tahnee: (05:54) Well, I think that's the bit you probably don't appreciate from the listener's perspective, but for us, running a company and being parents and life, it's a great way for us to stay really connected and to learn and to be inspired by people who are really on mission, I guess, for want of a better way of saying it and who have really devoted themselves to a particular topic or area of research. And I was thinking about the podcast that really moved me and I remember listening to Jane Hardwicke Collings, who I interviewed earlier this year, she did a piece on menopause with us and I was moved to tears by that interview. I just was so touched by her strength and her power and her capacity to capture what it is to be a woman in these transitory phases of life and-   Mason: (06:44) That was number 77, The Power of Menopause.   Tahnee: (06:47) Yeah. And then the other one, I was trying to think of the ones that really, really resonated. I was really excited to speak to Kim Anami and that's one that you guys have all voted is very, very popular. That was number 28. But coming back to Jane, that was one of the ones where people would stop me on the street and just say, oh my God, that podcast moved me. And everyone from young women who just birthed their first child to women in their 50s and 60s who were touched that someone had discussed those topics so openly. That was really special. And I remember being really moved by speaking with Paul, my yoga teacher, Paul Grilley, which I think he's number... We'll look that up. But yeah, that was a really special one for me because-   Mason: (07:36) That's number 59.   Tahnee: (07:37) He's been such a huge influence to me in my teaching and my life. And I know for you Mace, Rhonda's been a big influence.   Mason: (07:47) The Rhonda Chang interview's number 80. I think it's called, Why Chinese Medicine is Failing Us. It's been interesting. It's creeping up there more and more, becoming one of those cult conversations. You can see like this month it's got way more downloads than anything else [inaudible 00:08:10] actually-   Tahnee: (08:10) Still-   Mason: (08:10) Jane's there still like charging away and I assume that'll get up there. I like that because I think for a lot of you who are listening, I heard some people listen to one of mine and Dan Sipple's conversations, which if you want to just hear me and my mate, who's a naturopath, me coming from Taoist perspective, him naturopath perspective, and just seeing just how those conversations run side by side, but someone shared it on Instagram recently and was like they come for the talk on gut health, the conversations and the protocols on gut health and they stay for Mason's rants about ideology.   Mason: (08:50) And I don't know if you guys are still enjoying it or not whether I'm flogging a dead horse, but naturally, that's been something probably because I've been really going through some reconciliations within myself and some integrations with myself and also just really pausing to consider where in the health landscape there is room and tools being provided to people so that we're safe to go into a big rule set approach to health or a protocol, a healing protocol, and then where the skill set is in going beyond to well, what do you go to beyond that, beyond the labels and coming further into yourself and then realising that we're not going to land in a place of being sure and it's such a weird world, where we're in a completely new world when it comes to the accessibility that we have to health protocols and technologies and traditional technologies and traditional systems that it's all just experimental as anything right now. What is a healthy, ongoing space to keep on questioning our beliefs and questioning how we've integrated opposing ideas and then move into a place of it's in further and further harmony, which is in alignment with every traditional system. It's never ending and it doesn't ever stop evolving, but there is a way to surf it in harmony and stay healthy.   Mason: (10:13) That's been a huge one for me this year, which a lot of you would have heard and Rhonda's conversation is probably the biggest one in number 80, Why Chinese medicine is Failing Us just because it represents something I'm close to as a hobbyist with Chinese medicine and enjoying Taoists medicine, especially, and she's someone sometimes you're like, am I crazy here? Is there actually any difference? Is there an institution when it comes to health or the Chinese medicine that's different to how it was done previously? Is this just the natural evolution? Is it in fact unnatural? Is it bad or is it good? Is it great to have options? Where's the [inaudible 00:10:57]... But it was just all meshed in. It was just Chinese medicine is Chinese medicine is Chinese medicine is Chinese medicine. It represents the wider conversation around when something that was holistic gets layered on something that's reductionist. And so that's another one, that number 80 conversation was one I had seen people writing to me and stopping me on the street going far out, Ronda's is just a firecracker, but she's just nailed it.   Mason: (11:27) Am I crazy here? Is something that blurred here? We should be making the distinction that this is a new medicine and a new technology and not just pretending that we're practising the traditional style and with that, why isn't it working? And I feel that about a lot of things. I see a lot of people going down a health ideology that's got all this modern biohacking layered over it and we're like, yes, I'm doing the traditional thing and then I've watched it fail so many times and then going, okay... I'm going a little bit of a rant, guys, but this is just wrapping up my approach to the podcast. Going like, well, where does our faith actually lie? Does it lie in a system or in an ideology and a set of rules that we can identify with and that are external or is there something else that we can learn to have faith and trust in, which is self-regulating and never moving?   Mason: (12:27) And that's something that that conversation and reading Rhonda's book and talking with her really helped me go, no, I'm not crazy here, there's just a little bit more of a distinction that's needed, especially when there's so much coming. There's so many new systems coming out as Western medicine goes charging forth, thankfully, in other areas, as long as it's not getting layered over and bastardising everything that we've had there. If we're able to preserve that, then that's beautiful as well. A lot of this year in the podcast has been me wiping out a lot of that confusion and learning how to navigate this new emerging health scape.   Tahnee: (13:12) That's a way more complex than my year. My year was like emotions and amazing women, which I feel like that's such an interesting... I've felt that my personal journey was around this wider acceptance of the vast, many layered dimensions of experience that women have and also that everyone has and then also the themes around that. I think I've really learned to be less judgmental and to not always project my experience onto other people and not to try and always use myself as the reference. And I think it's been interesting talking to people who they're just so strong and grounded in themselves.   Tahnee: (14:04) I'm thinking about Jessica Le Corre right now. I spoke to her on my birthday, on my 35th birthday, and I feel she was a bit of a gift. That was episode 96. She just epitomises to me the place I would like to step into or the place I see myself stepping into as I get older. And she really, really moved me. And also I'm thinking of Myra Lewin, the Ayurvedic teacher. I think her episode was... Looking at one up, number 55. Ayurveda and yoga and she was another one I think that really moved me. Claudia Welch, I've spoken to a lot of women who are just proper powerhouses and I think that's something that I've really... Number 32's Claudia Welch as well. Something I've really kind of-   Mason: (14:58) It's one of the favourites as well.   Tahnee: (15:00) Yeah. I've always said to Mase, I'm going to be a really cool old lady when I'm 60. And I think speaking to these women that are elders and even if they're only 10 years older than me, but they've settled into themselves in a way that I think young women often haven't and it's really special to share the space with them. And just so many interesting and inspiring women and men, I think have graced our microphone this year.   Mason: (15:31) And that's an interesting reflection because I've definitely noticed that in you stepping into a part of yourself. I'm not sure what you mean by using yourself as a reference, not doing that as much. Is that-   Tahnee: (15:46) I think just sometimes because I've had a pretty interesting, vast life experience in some ways. And I think sometimes I can try and empathise through my experience instead of just allowing that person's experience to be separate from me a little bit. And I think it's just something that as you grow up, you realise you haven't seen it all. And I'm may be not clear [crosstalk 00:16:12]-   Mason: (16:12) No, no that's clear.   Tahnee: (16:12) Just coming to me at this moment, but that's what I'm feeling into that I've noticed, like assumptions I've made or going into interviews with a certain assumption or certain sense of where it's going to go and then just being completely stunned in a positive way where it's just been so much richer and deeper and more powerful and more educational for me on a really personal intimate level than I would have imagined. A chat about, say, I just did one, it hasn't come out yet, about PCOS and I've not experienced that personally. And I went in with some assumptions around what PCOS is just based on my experience in dealing with it with people who we speak to and then just having this whole more vast conversation around it, I suppose, than I would have been able to have with Amanda, this TCM doctor. I think it's great. It's humbling and it's inspiring and it just constantly reminds me to stay in that beginner's mind and that Zen mind of not knowing, which was a conversation we're having last night about acting rather.   Mason: (17:20) Oh, yes.   Tahnee: (17:20) [crosstalk 00:17:19]-   Mason: (17:20) Not losing yourself in the character.   Tahnee: (17:22) Yeah, and I think you can easily get your ego really wrapped up in knowing-   Mason: (17:26) Oh, in a narrative?   Tahnee: (17:27) Yeah.   Mason: (17:27) That's something at times I was like, all right, we've got to have a very specific SuperFeast narrative. And now the idea, for example, I remember the week after I had that conversation with Rhonda and we were really heavily exploring that area, which is something I feel like I've popped. It's like just because I'm exploring an area and really enjoying it and going in and getting good realisations doesn't mean that that's my narrative, doesn't mean that's the truth, doesn't mean that we can't explore other areas. It seems obvious, but for me, I'm such a purist sometimes. And I had that conversation with Rhonda and watching, looking at what's happened when we've used, say, Western diagnosis and Western diseases in with Chinese medicine and yet, the week after or even like you were saying, this podcast that came out before this one, is a Chinese medicine doctor exploring PCOS and that's fine and that's beautiful and I'm interested to hear about that because it's like...   Mason: (18:30) I think I've [inaudible 00:18:33] what I mean there, but I feel we are really opening up and exploring on the SuperFeast podcast more and more. And that's something I did notice this year, it was just how many elders you had. You'd come away feeling really solid, just really reflected, I think, where you've been moving. And for me this year, when I've had guys on the podcast, I've been chatting to young guys. It's been Sage Dammers and Dan Sipple and Taylor Johnson and another big one was Nick Perry. But I feel that's just where I've been at. I've been trying to explore. I didn't want to be led. I wanted to be in the dark and be talking to other guys who were potentially going through that same stage of life because I needed to work it out for myself. But I can see now I'm ready to have some conversations with those guys that have just really landed in themselves as well.   Tahnee: (19:34) Basically guys, this is our therapy and you're just along for the ride because I often think about that. I'm like, I'm not promoting SuperFeast, I don't have anything to sell, I just want to have a conversation.   Mason: (19:46) I've started to be good and in the intros sometimes promo products and things.   Tahnee: (19:50) But I'm like, it's funny because to me it feels almost separate from SuperFeast except that it informs my growth and my evolution and I know the team listens and gets value out of it and support us in the production of it. They're all engaged and [inaudible 00:20:08]. It obviously informs the SuperFeast philosophy and how we do things and often conversations are sparked from listening to the podcast on how we do things and what we can do better or how we can navigate our roles better and all these things. It's just an interesting thing to me that it feels so much less a marketing part of the business. It feels a personal exploration/soul nourishment/education piece. That's an interesting thing that I've been observing is like it's not really something I think of in a sales and marketing capacity. Even though I started thinking about it because one of our consultants placed the podcast within a marketing flow and I went, oh, I didn't even think of it that way. That's been an interesting little distinction for me this year as well.   Mason: (21:04) As the business mushrooms and I'm not out doing-   Tahnee: (21:11) Is that a pun?   Mason: (21:13) Mushrooms and it's growing in its own way and I'm not in front of people at markets anymore and you're not helping at events talking to people. And so the podcast continues to be a way to associate all those conversations because normally people come up to the markets back in the day when I was growing SuperFeast-   Tahnee: (21:35) You're having the chance.   Mason: (21:36) Or when people come to you. Well, yeah, someone was like, I have an autoimmune condition. I wouldn't be sitting there just promoting SuperFeast. I'd have this huge other exploring conversation that would always need to come back to the way that we're living in general, the way the diets looking in general.   Tahnee: (21:53) Totally. It's a part of a piece of a puzzle, not a silver bullet solution. And I think that's something we wanted to convey in this ramble was that we're really interested in the direction that you guys want to hear us go with this thing. We don't have a plan. We are just reaching out and when people can, we're interviewing them and we're recording stuff that we think is interesting or that people on our team find interesting, but we haven't heard a whole lot from you guys beyond the feedback. I've quit social media, so I'm not hearing from anyone, yay, but we'd love to hear from you guys about people you think we'd froth on interviewing, people you want to hear interviewed. I think as I look at the podcast circuit and there's so many of the same names popping up across all these different podcasts and sometimes I just think, it's like people just do the circuit and they do all the podcasts. And then I'm like, I want to offer something a bit more diverse and interesting, like voices-   Mason: (23:00) I think Matthew McConaughey just finished doing that.   Tahnee: (23:02) Doing the podcast circuit?   Mason: (23:02) Yeah.   Tahnee: (23:03) Well, why didn't we get him?   Mason: (23:03) Good question. We got to consider ourselves being more like the ballers and go for the big fish.   Tahnee: (23:08) I don't know if we're quite there yet.   Mason: (23:10) No, we're definitely not there yet.   Tahnee: (23:14) Matthew lived with my friend as an exchange student actually when he was 18. We have a contact. Anyway, but my preference is not to do the famous... Look, if they're famous and they kick ass and it's something I feel we could really contribute to your earbuds, but I think in general, you can find those interviews already. I want to do people that are maybe not getting a lot of publicity or that are doing the work quietly in their little corner and don't have that kind of capacity to generate fame for themselves or-   Mason: (23:51) And it'd be interesting to hear, just for you guys, if you like, if you're [inaudible 00:23:54] on SuperFeast podcast and you're just really enjoying it, what you'd like to hear. This year hasn't been a lot about us because I know a lot of people want to hear from me and Tahns about what's your diet like and what's your lifestyle? and I don't know if we've been exploring, just trying to land somewhere-   Tahnee: (24:19) I feel like we don't spend any time together at work. That's the biggest thing. We work together, but we both hold really different roles in the business, whereas I'm usually more in an administrative role and Mason's more in a marketing role. Our days at work don't overlap that much and I think we haven't prioritised taking this time to chat to each other in this capacity, which I think is more realistic in the new year as things have settled down a bit. COVID has been, for everyone I'm sure, disruptive to the flow and we've just landed back on our feet, I think, after that period of time. And so I feel I do podcasts at seven in the morning or late at night or around... A lot of people I speak to are in the States, so I'm often working with really bad time zones where I'm getting up really early or you're looking after Aiya It's not like we can go duck off together and record one.   Mason: (25:13) I think that'd be a nice intention for us to just set or just have the intention anyway to start lapping here and there.   Tahnee: (25:22) And I'm also not the kind of person who really likes sharing those things because I think it's odd, but I'm also happy to have people want to. For example, the pregnancy podcasts, which are just-   Mason: (25:34) That's what I was just thinking of.   Tahnee: (25:34) So popular and the prenatal preparation one and-   Mason: (25:39) And the nourishing her yin, the live event, that's like, I mean that's-   Tahnee: (25:43) See, those to me though require a lot of push for me to share myself and if I'm really honest, I feel uncomfortable. And I often think about what I've shared on this podcast and I feel really uncomfortable, but it's already done so... But I think it's for me, it's my own, I don't want to ever feel like people think they need to... Yeah, I just think it's one of those things where so much of it's a personal journey for me and not something I share publicly, but if that's something you guys really want to hear and Mase does get those requests a lot through his-   Mason: (26:20) I think every time there's a request, it's like, look, I know you guys aren't going to have an exact diet or rule. We'll see if we can lap over because every time we do tune in, it's just a little... I think it's weird because Tahnee and I don't get a lot, a lot, a lot of time to just sit down with each other and flesh these things out outside of a podcast. And it's like, let's not have a mic between us every time we get that chance to just do that-   Tahnee: (26:48) [crosstalk 00:26:48] together.   Mason: (26:48) We just have enjoy be together. But there's definitely room for us to jump on and just be like, this is what the diet has done in the last year and this is where the fluctuations and this is where we're trying to land. I've definitely started sharing a little because we get asked a lot about diet and everyone knows we're not experts on that topic, but we've had a lot of interactions with thinking about the diet and so we'll see. That's not a black and white conversation, so we'll see if we can colour it in and do some sharing around that one. Definitely, I can get the feeling if there's anyone that wants to learn about any particular topics in Taoist herbalism that I can share about.   Tahnee: (27:37) I've got a couple of things lined up just from my background, like yoga nidra. I've got a chat coming up with Rod Stryker next year. I have-   Mason: (27:46) [crosstalk 00:27:46] he's the one that Tahnee's been learning from him, but our yoga nidra that Sophia runs on a Wednesday, so everyone's been doing it.   Tahnee: (27:55) And with Nicole's teacher, whose name I don't remember, but she's amazing, too. And we have definitely got some podcasts on [inaudible 00:28:03] planned. I'm trying to get my Taois teacher Master Mantak Chia on the podcast, I'm working on it. I just think there's lots of people out there that we're connected to that would be great to feature because we know their work and we love their work. And I know Mase has Benny on regularly and Benny's a close friend of ours as well as an excellent genius of movement. What numbers are Benny if we're looking for them-   Mason: (28:32) We've had Benny twice. Benny, the embodied movement one is really most popular, me and him just riffing a lot. That's why I talk in that one because we're riffing. So number 56, if you want to hear me talking with my friend, or 87, if you want to hear Benny talking a little bit less interrupted.   Tahnee: (28:53) How could you not interrupt someone? Anyway, I'm sure there'll be more of that stuff. I think you and [Tanya 00:28:59] should re-record-   Mason: (28:59) Oh yeah, that's a good.   Tahnee: (29:00) Because Tanya's a close friend of ours, who's a permaculture lifestyle guru.   Mason: (29:06) The Mason Taylor Show, we've had a really good conversation with Tanya [inaudible 00:29:11], it's called, Dancing the Patterns of Permaculture. If you can go find number eight on the Mason Taylor Show, you can tune in with us talking about permaculture and then when we get her on the SuperFeast podcast, you can see the difference and the evolution of where that conversation goes. But yeah, that's a good call. There's a lot of people on the horizon. For some reason, I don't know, I thought you guys were all sexually liberated and maybe that's why you like the sexy conversations-   Tahnee: (29:42) Sex is very popular.   Mason: (29:43) It's by far the top one-   Tahnee: (29:46) Four or five?   Mason: (29:46) That's downloaded is Semen retention. Is that because, did that get shared around in a bunch of like guys circles? Or is it women going like, hold the phone, it is possible? Authentic Sex with Juliet Allen is way up there as is Tahnee's conversation with Kim Anami. They're seriously popular. If there's any aspects around sexuality and any experts that you'd recommend us listening to, we definitely don't like... I think it's nice. We like people on the edge, but sometimes... It's interesting to know what you guys are enjoying about that. We don't particularly feel we're being naughty or taboo talking about these kinds of things, but I think, for some of you, maybe you're enjoying the fact that it feels really edgy, us talking about this kind of thing. I'm not sure why that's so popular. Sex is great. And so it's an obvious reason, but yeah, if you guys want to send us an email or anything and just let us know, you're reflecting over the last 100 episodes why you've been drawn towards particular topics and others not so much, in particular, personalities more so. It'd be really great to hear and you'd all probably notice and appreciate Tahnee's audio is way better these days.   Tahnee: (31:14) That was our number one comment was fix Tahnee's audio and guys, I'm a quiet person anyway. So I'm learning to be more articulate in the microphone and I'm learning how to use microphones. Mason didn't teach me anything. He just gave me one. I'm working on it and that kind of feedback is really useful, too, because I'm new to this and we are often just making it up as we go along.   Mason: (31:43) Thanks gang. Hey, reviews. I know a lot of you, a lot of you listening have left reviews, but it's the classic, it's like-   Tahnee: (31:49) They always help.   Mason: (31:51) Well, they're fun to read. I really like reading them when they come through.   Tahnee: (31:56) We share them with the whole team, too, so that we have a Slack channel. If you don't know what Slack is, it's kind of like inter business communication system. Our whole team uses it and we have a channel called Awesome Feedback, and we put feedback from all different areas of the business. People who love receiving a love letter from the warehouse all the way up to podcast reviews or customer service feedback on how much someone's health has changed from using SuperFeast. And it's just a way for us to celebrate the success and the joy that SuperFeast brings in people's lives. We also have channels for complaints, so don't worry, we're not just totally sunshine and focusing on the positive, but we really enjoy sharing that with everyone and everyone really enjoys reading those and they always get lots of positive comments and emojis and love.   Mason: (32:44) It can be specific. Sorry, it can be specific as well. You can say like, oh my gosh, this episode was great and I really loved this about Tahnee or it doesn't have to be a big, wide, general review. You can get really nice and specific there.   Tahnee: (32:58) Just anything, if you want to share with us, we love it. And same if you want to email us or contact us, it's just both of our first names at SuperFeast.com.au. That's an easy way to get in touch or through the team email, which is on our website or the contact forms. You can just reach out to us and let us know your feedback and just stay in touch. Sometimes it's like talking to space. It's nice to know there are humans out there listening. And so apart from seeing that in the numbers yeah, it's a great way for us to get feedback. I think that's about all we wanted to say.   Mason: (33:34) Thanks everyone. Thanks for coming along for the journey.   Tahnee: (33:36) We'd be interested to hear your favourite episodes, too. Those are just some of my favourites, but if you have any that really resonated, let us know.   Mason: (33:45) Always appreciate you guys sharing them. I'm still there on Instagram. When you tag favourite conversations and tag me in it, it always makes me really smile. Just thanks for making sure that the word's getting out there. Hopefully we're a nice little sanctuary of very deep diving ideas without it being a place where anyone needs to subscribe to anything in particular. I'm hoping that everyone feels very non-judged and able to just really explore interesting ideas in this and through this podcast.   Tahnee: (34:25) Aho.   Mason: (34:25) See you guys.   Tahnee: (34:28) Bye.

In Part 2 of this episode with Jane Hardwicke Collings, Jane talks more on what a wise woman is, and how we can all tap into our own innate wisdom. 

She also talks of her mission to heal the wounded sisterhood, and exactly how WE can all start to heal those wounds within us. www.janehardwickecollings.comhttps://schoolofshamanicwomancraft.comIG ~ @janehardwickecollings All of Janes e-courses, books, events and workshops can be found at the above sources.

Jane Hardwicke Collings has been fighting on the front line of womens liberation in Australia for decades. 
The work Jane does is liberation through feminine knowledge, blood mysteries, birth empowerment, rites of passage, and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause. 

Jane founded and runs the school of shamanic womancraft, an international womens mysteries school. She's also the author of 7 books, relating to her work of reclaiming the feminine power. 
In her words, she is working for the goddess. 


I had so many goosebump moments in this conversation, and I hope you feel some truth bombs in this too. 

This chat with Jane was so long I had to break it down into two parts, so here is part 1. www.janehardwickecollings.comhttps://schoolofshamanicwomancraft.comIG ~ @janehardwickecollings All of Janes e-courses, books, events and workshops can be found at the above sources.

This episode features the wonderful Dr Rachel Reed! Rachel is a registered midwife, midwifery lecturer, podcast co-host on The Midwives' Cauldron with Katie James AND the amazing midwife behind the blog 'MidwifeThinking'. In this episode we learn more about Rachel's journey to midwifery, why having her children made her a better midwife and her take on the stages of labour we are taught at uni. She also shares some really insightful knowledge on the rites of passage which I found so interesting! For more on this, you can check out Katie and Rachel's podcast "The Midwives' Cauldron" An episode with Jane Hardwicke Collings (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/an-interview-with-jane-hardwicke-collings/id1523178579?i=1000489743525)We hope you enjoy today's episode!If you'd like to show your support, let us know what you think of the show in a rating and review. You can also find us on social media:Instagram - @making_a_midwifeTwitter - @_makingamidwifeFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/Making.a.Midwife/

Today on the show I speak with former homebirth midwife and women's mysteries teacher - Jane Hardwicke Collings. I was so excited to chat to Jane as her work totally resonates with me and the way I think. I love her Aussie, no bullshit approach! And I must admit I am a total fan girl of hers. We chat about her life to date and her journey from studying midwifery, becoming a homebirth midwife, then to the birth of her first child, a planned homebirth turned c-section, and then her subsequent home births for her next two babes. We also chat about what lessons are learnt from each birth and how this lesson needs to be brought to parenting that child. She talks about the growth from each birth and how massive that is and how she thought you could never have any more growth than that… until she went through menopause. We really touch on every rite of passage for women from menarche to menopause. Jane is an intelligent spiritual leader for this time and has so much wisdom and understanding of this world - particularly birth. I came away so inspired from this chat and I know you will do too. About Jane: Jane Hardwicke Collings is a grandmother, former homebirth midwife for 30 years, teacher, writer and menstrual educator. She gives workshops in Australia and internationally on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause – a modern day Women's Mysteries Teacher. Jane practised as a homebirth midwife for 30 years, this work from her late 20's to early 50's informed her worldview and brought focus to her knowing of what's possible when women feel safe. Through her own life experiences, her learning and research of ancient and modern shamanic practices, evolutionary biology, psychology, spirituality, the ecology of the Sacred Feminine, and as a student of the Earth, she has found a common thread that weaves and connects our lives from one moment to the next and to each other, everyone and everything. With this awareness and her teachers' guidance and help she developed a way to teach this. Jane founded and runs The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international Women's Mysteries School. The School, through Jane and other graduate Teachers offers year, and two year long, in depth immersions into the self and one's relationship with all that is. The program offers a focus on ‘Know Thyself' and is more than anything a grand awakening for each individual woman as she comes to know who she really is when she separates her self from the misogynist, power over paradigm of the patriarchal culture. A profound and epic healing happens when women reclaim their body and their functions and remember that they do not visit Nature, they are Nature. Reclaiming Feminine Power, through Reconnection with the Women's Mysteries…

In this episode of In a Woman’s Body Podcast Marina speaks with the midwife and women’s mystery teacher, Jane Hardwicke Collings. Marina and Jane speak about how we can prepare ourselves to have empowering birthing experiences, what a rite of passage is, why giving birth is a rite of passage, and how giving birth is a sexual experience. They explore what we need to change in the way women give birth to support them in this experience. Find out more at www.inawomansbody.com.

Find the full show notes here: www.dearmamaproject.com/podcastepisodes/36Dear Mama Project websiteConnect with me on Instagram

In Episode 110 Tabitha talks to Jane Hardwicke Collings about women's rites of passage going through perimenopause.

In this episode, we have the absolute delight of interviewing Jane Hardwicke Collings about women's rites of passage and how they shape our lives. We pay particular attention to the peri-menopause and the role of Autumn Women as leaders and change agents in the maternity system. This episode is jam-packed with intelligent, jaw-dropping and wonderful insights into womanhood. Let us introduce Jane...Jane Hardwicke Collings is a post menopausal grandmother. She was an intensive care and operating theatre nurse, and then a homebirth midwife for 30 years. Now her work focuses on teaching the Women’s Mysteries and writing about them. She gives workshops on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred and shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause. Jane founded and runs The School of Shamanic Womancraft, an international Women’s Mystery School.Links:More about JaneJane Hardwicke Collings' website: https://janehardwickecollings.com/ School of Shamanic Womancraft website: https://schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com/Jane's forthcoming online courses:Autumn women, harvest queen Snake medicine: shedding menstrual shameMentioned in the podcastAbout Bloody Time by Karen Pickering & Jane Bennett: https://www.vwt.org.au/projects/about-bloody-time/Dr. Christiane Northrup. https://www.drnorthrup.com/ More about the slang use of 'Karen': https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/

Tahnee is back with another soulful Women's Series episode on the podcast today. Clancy Allen joins us to unpack and explore the depth and nuance of the birthing process. Clancy is a Doula with prior professional experience as a civil litigation lawyer and training in kinesiology and yoga. It is Clancy's deep desire and burning passion to facilitate women on their birthing journey's, helping them cultivate their inner power, and find their voices within a medical system that is often unsupportive. Clancy creates a sacred container for women in the birthing space, helping them to recognise and dissolve fear and overwhelm, guiding them towards the harmony that exists between their intellect and intuition.   Tahnee and Clancy explore: Clancy's story and birth journey. The role of the doula in the birth space. The value of creating a birth plan and what a birth plan can offer you.  How to use your psychic antenna to align yourself with birthing allies. Pregnancy and birth as highly intuitive times in a woman's life. Birth as a portal to shadow work and self healing. Obstetrics and the technocratic model in child birth. The Birthing From Within paradigm. How to step into your innate power as a woman.   Who is Clancy Allen?   Clancy is a birth mentor and birth keeper, wise woman, and mother to a spirited 4 year old boy. Clancy honours the continuum of the childbearing phases from preconception, to pregnancy, birth and motherhood as potent opportunities for personal growth and transformation. After transitioning away from a half a decade career as a Lawyer to study yoga and kinesiology, it was pregnancy that catalysed Clancy’s interest in birth. Clancy’s passion to support women during the childbearing continuum was born with her son. Clancy went on to study as a Sacred Birth doula with Anna Watts (in the Byron shire), Birthing From Within, and the Radical Birth Keeper School. Clancy offers birth mentoring and birth keeping, postnatal mother support, mothering the mother ceremonies, and her online course, Yoga for Empowered Birth. Clancy holds space for women to recover their inner authority and voice, to remember their innate birthing wisdom and power, and to experience birth as a joyous initiation to mothering. Peaceful, primal, biological, loving birth is the revolution our world needs, now.   Resources: Clancy's Website Clancy's Instagram Birthing From Within Website   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:00) Hi everybody, and welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. Today I am joined by Clancy who happens to be a friend of mine, but she's also an amazing birth mentor and birth keeper. Her name is Clancy Allen, excuse me. And we'll link to all of her website and everything a bit later on, but she's got a really awesome Instagram and a great website, and online courses, so lots of resources out there for mums that are in that birthing time or birthing phase of life.   Tahnee: (00:29) But I'm really excited to share Clancy with you all today because she's just someone that I've really enjoyed following her journey, and I've learned a lot from her sharing and her resources that she shares. She's got this really beautiful way of pulling in the facts and then also the weaving in the deeply intimate and personal experiences of birth. I'm really excited to have you here today, Clancy. Thanks for taking the time.   Clancy Allen: (00:53) Thanks Tahnee. Thanks for that beautiful introduction.   Tahnee: (00:58) Oh, that's so nice. But, yeah, I know we've had trouble lining this up because of life, but yeah, it's really nice to finally be here. And I was just thinking about you the other day and just I think I bumped into you, and you were really pregnant, and I remember you looked really beautiful; and at that point pregnancy was not even on my horizon. And, yeah, it's interesting we're both here now five years later with little people, so big growth for both of us, I'm sure.   Clancy Allen: (01:25) Yeah. But it's interesting because it wasn't that long after we did have that encounter and bumped into each other that you were pregnant, I think. Or I feel it wasn't that long.   Tahnee: (01:36) It's true. I don't know the exact dates but, yeah, it would have been no more than six months, I think. Well, when was Loui born?   Clancy Allen: (01:44) He was February 2016.   Tahnee: (01:47) Yes. Aiya's December, so yeah.   Clancy Allen: (01:50) Not too far apart.   Tahnee: (01:51) Yeah, so you do this amazing birth keeping work now. I know that you were in the holistic space then, but I imagine your birth was a really transformative way of you moving into this work. Are you able to tell us…? I know you were a lawyer at one time, how does lawyer Clancy become birth mentor Clancy? What's the journey there?   Clancy Allen: (02:16) Yes. I was a lawyer and I practised as a lawyer for six years, so it was a good effort trying on that career and seeing if it was the right fit. And it absolutely wasn't. And I always had this inkling, I suppose, that it wasn't. But, for whatever reason, I ignored my intuition around that and pressed on. And it was a lot of ticking the boxes and doing the things that we think are going to be important. And making decisions as a 17, 18 year old after leaving school for the rest of your life is, you know... A little bit insane.   Clancy Allen: (03:04) That was the decision I made and the path I took. And I practised as a personal injury lawyer in civil litigation for six years and just became very disillusioned with it all. And it was a very masculine career, long hours sitting at a desk. It really just wasn't fitting into how I saw my future. And the spaces that I was moving into, I guess, I'd discovered yoga and was really stepping away from that dominant narrative around our bodies and our health and medicine, and really starting to question all that and look at things through a more holistic lens.   Clancy Allen: (03:52) I think I saw a naturopath for the first time when I was a lawyer. Yeah, I was pretty late to the party with all that because I grew up in a house with two parents who were nurses so they very much in that, conditioned in that way and indoctrinated into that system and everything it stands for. There was a lot of unlearning, I suppose, and seeing things differently. And I found yoga and yoga was the thing that kept me able to keep going in law for a couple more years until I finally got to a crunch point and I had to leave.   Clancy Allen: (04:44) And I went travelling for six months in South America on my own and had no epiphany while I was there about what I wanted to do. Like I thought “Maybe the heavens will open while I'm on this epic backpacking journey in South America and I'm going to discover what I want to be,” but that didn't happen. It took more time. My partner and I moved up to the Northern territory and lived in Kakadu, and I did some yoga teacher trainings, and then I studied kinesiology for a year and I fell pregnant that year.   Clancy Allen: (05:24) It wasn't.. It was sort of a conscious conception, but it was like we had a conversation and then we were pregnant. There wasn't this extended period of trying, which we thought that might be the case, so it was like, “Whoa.” I did have a bit of ambivalence initially, and it was a bit of a surprise and just wrapping my head around the fact that now I'm pregnant. Wow, this is sudden and I still don't know what I want to be. And I think I was 33 at this time. I actually booked my first anti-natal appointments with an obstetrician in Newcastle, even though we were living three hours out of Darwin.   Clancy Allen: (06:23) And I thought, “Oh, yeah, I'll travel down there and see this obstetrician that a friend had recommended.” I'm not sure what I was thinking. But as I started to actually do some of my own reading and research, and learn about the obstetric model vs midwifery based model of care and what those two frameworks looked like and what the care might be like, I started to think, “Oh, okay. Then I think that's what I want. I'm really wanting to aim for a normal physiological birth here, so that doesn't feel like the right thing.   Clancy Allen: (07:00) And why am I trying to make it easy for my family and everyone else down in Newcastle to see me when my baby is born and meet my baby? Why aren't I…” We lived up in Darwin at that stage, why aren't I doing the things that make life easy for me and having my baby up here. I discovered there was these publicly funded home birth service and jumped on that. And I was really excited and just totally devouring everything about birth; and started to think, during that pregnancy, that maybe this is what I want to do.   Clancy Allen: (07:39) I heard about a doula and I just had this inkling that maybe working as a doula was what I would do after I'd had my baby. But I also thought it's probably just a phase and once he's born I'll be over it. But then nine months later, when I was still reading birth books, I realised I needed to do a doula training. And yeah, so it went from there and I've just done more and more trainings, learnt from more great teachers, have studied as an educator in the birthing from within frameworks, so really use their model a lot in my mentoring. And now have just started the radical birth keeper school with the amazing women who collaborate to found the free birth society. Yeah.   Tahnee: (08:45) Yeah. For people that don't know, can you tell us what a doula is first? Because I think some people don't even really understand that particular type of offering in that birth space.   Clancy Allen: (08:59) Yeah. It's pretty simple. A doula is a birth companion or birth support person who's there for the birth in woman's support but also the partner. Really it's not a medical role. She's there to meet the emotional needs of that woman and support her in that transition through the birth process. And usually there's prenatal education and getting to know one another, and building that trust and rapport with the woman and her partner, and up-skilling that partner so that he feels equipped to move through the process. And then post-natally they can also be some support as well depending on the doulas inclination to offer that. Yeah.   Tahnee: (09:50) And so, and women by my understanding, would typically choose that person to support them in any kind of birth setting. It's not just a home birth or any kind of… Outside the normal birth, for want of a better word. But so did you end up using a doula yourself for your birth?   Clancy Allen: (10:10) Yes. Yes. So I did have a doula. I had a nightmare at about 28 weeks that I ended up in the hospital. Whether this was a premonition or just one of those normal fears that women have about birth, I woke up and I thought, “Right, I need to get a doula because I've got this fear about ending up in the hospital and that's going to solve all my problems.” And it's only now, with a lot of reflection and hindsight, that I can see how I really handing my power away and looking externally for something or someone to save me from what I was perceiving as the worst case scenario in my birth.   Clancy Allen: (11:06) And by doing that I really was avoiding the actual work of looking at the fear and unpacking the fear, and was jumping into this problem-solving mindset. And yeah, a big part of my work now is around really tackling and confronting fears, which are totally normal part of these huge initiation and transformation that we undergo as women. Yeah, it can be overwhelming and it can be scary and that's multi-factorial why it's scary and overwhelming and individual as well. But yeah, for me, that was an avoidance thing and it didn't serve me to do that because I was not willing, I guess, to look at my fear.   Clancy Allen: (12:03) And I thought that by getting a doula that would just solve my problems. And doulas, unfortunately, are incredible and offer amazing nourishing support and space holding but they're not fairies who can come into a birth and wave a wand. They can't change the system and the inherent power dynamics and things that happen within that system that can be sometimes really negative and abusive. They're not bodyguards either. I guess, maybe, I had some misconceptions about all that. And there was a lot of other things too but, yeah.   Tahnee: (12:47) Yeah. I think sometimes, and we talked about this before we came on, there's an assumption that they have some rights, I guess, to control the situation in a birthing situation, but that's not the case really. A doula is a support person so they're not really able to intervene too much, from what I understand. Is that correct?   Clancy Allen: (13:11) Well, yeah. I mean, you have these institutions, hospitals, with a hierarchy within them where the obstetricians are at the top of that hierarchy. And then there might be nurses and midwives. And the doula is definitely way down the bottom of the line in terms of a pecking order and is, I think, seen by some medical providers, not all obviously, but as someone who's totally unqualified. And we don't have medical training usually, although there are some midwives who are doulas and that type of thing.   Clancy Allen: (13:54) But for the most part there's no professional medical training. There's an understanding of the medical system and normal physiological birth, so I guess our perspectives are not valued really by that hierarchy. And yeah, there's not much ability to sway what's happening if it has started to spiral. If things are running pretty smoothly and it hasn't turned into a spiralling stressful situation, there's definitely scope for the doula to act as, I guess, an intermediary and also support the partner to be the advocate.   Clancy Allen: (14:44) Because, let's face it, a birthing woman can't really advocate for herself to her full capacity because her prefrontal cortex is totally offline for very good reasons. She's in her primal brain and all those executive functions are just not there, which is how it should be. There's not much decision making ability, language. All that is compromised so it's really quite impossible for her, in such a vulnerable state, to be able to advocate for herself and even make decisions.   Clancy Allen: (15:27) Now I'm going off on a tangent, but even to give informed consent seems like it's just a false concept, because how can you give consent when your whole thinking capacity is impaired. And I guess impaired doesn't really sound like the right word because it suggests that it's like a dysfunction, which it's not. It's perfect. It's biologically sound and intelligent and perfect for her to be in that place. But then we expect her to make decisions and give informed consent and it just doesn't fit. It's incongruent.   Tahnee: (16:16) Yeah. That's so interesting you say that because… I mean, I chose to have a hospital midwife program home birth as well I remember lots of things I thought about before the birth. And then in it I just was like… I mean, the closest example I can have is like psychedelic drugs. I was completely on another planet and it was very embodied and very primal. But, yeah, they were asking me things and I was like, “I just can't process anything right now.” You know?   Tahnee: (16:52) I was thinking, Mase knew what I wanted and it was all fine, and none of the questions were particularly hard, but I was thinking afterwards, “Can you imagine if I'd had to make a decision about do you want to be transferred or do this?” I mean, I wouldn't have had a hope. I think about that a lot. And when you said earlier about it's so difficult and you've seen so many cases of consent not being given or not being able to be given, I think that becomes a really grey tricky area in terms of giving care to a pregnant woman and supporting the birth process.   Tahnee: (17:28) Given now what you know and what you've witnessed and your experiences so far, is there any advice or perspective you can offer on that whole idea of consent in birth and how that all fits together?   Clancy Allen: (17:44) I think if women are choosing to birth in the system, and let's face it 95% or upwards even, are, this concept of having a birth plan is often scoffed at and ridiculed. And there's this perspective that, well, anything can happen so what's the point in planning. But a birth plan, the power of it isn't in the document itself and showing up to your birth with this document that you've written and saying what you want. The power of the planning is in learning and understanding what the system might be offering you, what you may or may not want, and formulating that document ahead of time and in communication with your care providers.   Clancy Allen: (18:41) Having discussions with them about the various things that would normally go in the plan so that they're aware of your perspective on X, Y, and Z. And you have an opportunity, I guess, to iron out any possible philosophical differences, an opportunity to even leave that care provider if, during those discussions, it becomes apparent that they're just not willing to support the things that you want. Because it's never too late to find another care provider. Well, that I guess comes with the caveat that it depends on what the options are in your area geographically as well.   Clancy Allen: (19:27) But if there is another option, you can leave when you're 39 weeks and go and find someone else if you've just suddenly realised they're not on board with what I want here and they're not going to support that, and if you've got alarm bells and red flags. The power of that planning process and that document is really in the many discussions that you should have with that care provider before about what you want so that it's not a surprise.   Clancy Allen: (19:57) And when you're having those discussions, I think really important to be feeling into your body to get a sense of their body language because sometimes people can talk the talk but then when it comes to… And you hear that happening a lot with women who birth saying that I was fooled or tricked. They said that they would support this and then when I went into labour everything changed. You really have to have your psychic antenna on, I think. And we are all psychic but I guess we're all conditioned away from that.   Clancy Allen: (20:43) But we're especially open when we're pregnant. We have that real openness in our field, so dropping into that and getting a real felt sense of how you're feeling in your body in those interactions and if that feeling is matching what they're saying. Because I think that's really important, that unspoken stuff. But, yeah.   Tahnee: (21:11) I think what I'm really hearing is examining the full. I mean, I guess that was something I have witnessed and spoken with friends about. It's like this is how I'm going to birth and so I think it's important to do due diligence and actually examine the range of possibilities. And that was something, I know for me, we had to talk about. Well, what happens if I get transferred? And what happens if… And it wasn't to entertain fear as much as to make sure that everyone knew what we wanted in those stages, I suppose, and which hospitals we wanted to go to and which ones we didn't.   Tahnee: (21:50) And, again, you don't know what you don't know but you can, with a bit of education, understand what the different possibilities might be. I think it's this sense, and maybe what you were saying before about how you were looking at a doula to fix it instead of really looking within. It seems like your work has really shifted to that inner journey toward… There's that great saying that goes around on memes all the time; but it's, how you birth is how you live. Right? It's like what we're not willing to examine shows up when we birth.   Tahnee: (22:26) And I know that, for me, definitely I was in and out of my thinking controlling mind. I wanted to control the whole process. And then in the primal body the mind which was like, “Get out of the way. We've got this,” kind of thing. I could feel myself shifting in and out of those spaces. It was a really profound experience. But yeah, is that how your work has shifted. Is it more on the mothers in a landscape, I suppose?   Clancy Allen: (22:55) Totally. Yeah. And I think there's a lot to be said about what you just said as well, about looking at all the different alternatives, I suppose, and pathways that might happen and understanding them. You knew where you wanted to go if you did need to transfer. And I think there's this misconception that you don't focus on the thing that you don't want to happen because you don't want to manifest it. Something like, yeah, if you're fearful of having a caesarian then let's just not talk about it.   Clancy Allen: (23:33) And let's not focus on that because I don't want that to happen, so I just absolutely cannot go there. But we give the fear so much energy just by keeping it at bay and holding it away from our mind and our consciousness. Yes, my work is definitely about going into that and exploring that. And also we don't really recognise I think in our culture as well that we've been preparing for birth our whole lives but we just don't recognise that. We fall pregnant and then we think, “Oh, wow, I'm pregnant. What do I need to do to get ready for this?”   Clancy Allen: (24:14) But we come to birth with all our baggage essentially. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. We come to it with our beliefs, our assumptions, our conditioning, all the narratives out there around birth being quite negative. And we definitely take that on at some level. It's everywhere, that narrative and that dialogue. And even our own birth imprint from when we were born, what happened then? How did we interpret the world in ourselves at a body level? Did we feel it as a safe place when we were born?   Clancy Allen: (24:59) What's our own imprint there, because that can come into it? Our family stories and also the rite of passage of menstruation. What happened to us during that? And for me, at least, there wasn't really any celebration. It was exciting but it was like, “Well, here's the things that you need, pads, tampons,” and you just get on with it and carry on with life as normal. There was no awareness around the cycles and honouring and understanding the whole cycle and ovulation and all of that type of thing. That just was totally missing.   Clancy Allen: (25:40) And if you suffered in any way from that monthly bleed, then just take drugs or let's just put you on the pill and suppress it. And so that's our initiation to our bodies being totally disconnected from them. If that's happened to us, which for a lot of us it has, that then plays into birth because birth is a body-based event. We're forced into our bodies. And if it's foreign territory for us to be in that and have that somatic awareness and to stay with all that, it can be really confronting. And we can just want to block it or numb it, I suppose, like we've been conditioned towards with that earlier rite of passage.   Clancy Allen: (26:28) Yeah. And I didn't fully comprehend all that, I don't think, with my own preparation. I think I felt like by doing all the right things, getting the doula, doing the calm birth course, reading the right things and choosing to have a home verse through a publicly funded home birth scheme, that I'd covered all my bases and the formula was met, and I'd ticked my boxes, and I'd get the birth I wanted. I didn't understand the importance of really doing that inner work and looking at all my past stuff. And there was a lot there to look at.   Tahnee: (27:11) Yeah, there was.   Clancy Allen: (27:13) But I think it's never done.   Tahnee: (27:15) No. Absolutely not.   Clancy Allen: (27:18) That's what being human is, I think. Yeah, and that's where I really focus my work and my mentoring now with couples and women. Is looking at all that stuff. And also looking at the rules and agreements that we made as children. We decide how we need to be in the world when we're very young. We make rules that govern us even when we're adults. It might be, I need to be compliant and quiet to get love. That's when I get praise and that's when I get love, and so if I'm quiet and a good girl and obedient then I'm worthy of getting that love.   Clancy Allen: (28:07) And even just an agreement like that one that we might've made when we were five or whatever can carry on and come into the birth space and influence how we engage with a system that has that authority platform as well with the expert. Yeah, it becomes a whole big tangled web of so many things that can influence us in that experience that is going back to our entire life history really.   Tahnee: (28:46) I don't know exactly what happened with your son, but I know that you had some birth trauma. What was your experience in the end, and what was your process I suppose? I'm sure the work you're doing is part of your healing, but there are other things that really helped you transform that experience into something more meaningful.   Clancy Allen: (29:08) Yeah. After it happened, yeah, I was in a bit of a dark place and just learning how to be a mother and learning breastfeeding and was overwhelmed with all that. The trauma that had happened, I just put in a box for a little while, compartmentalised and got on with it, and perhaps was in a bit of survival mode. And then it was no more than six months later though after his birth that I was ready to look at it. I know women carry their birth stories with them for their entire lifetime sometimes and it's a really deep wound, but maybe it was because…   Clancy Allen: (29:55) I don't know why I was really willing to look at it pretty soon. I think that's a pretty early timeframe. At five months I started looking for someone who could help me unpack what happened and process my emotions and hold me in a container. I found a woman, she lives in your area, called Angela Fitzgerald. Beautiful woman. She used to be a midwife and a doula, and she's a mother and just holds really powerful space. I worked with her for at least six months, I think. We would talk on Skype and that was the beginning.   Clancy Allen: (30:39) And then something that was really powerful was getting my hospital notes from the hospital and looking at them, because I was meant to have a home birth but had to transfer because of a resource staffing issue from their perspective. It wasn't because of anything to do with my body or the process, so I ended up in the hospital. And I guess a common internalised feeling that a woman who's had a traumatic birth would be my body failed me, my body let me down, because you get that label of failure to progress or whatever might have unfolded, but that's a common story.   Clancy Allen: (31:30) Getting the records was really helpful for me because it confirmed that my body was actually progressing by their standards and measurements anyway, which I honestly don't hold that much value in. But at the time that was like, “Oh, okay. I was progressing.” And for a woman to even be able to progress in that environment is astonishing really because Dr. Sarah Buckley talks about the conditions that women need to birth and its darkness, privacy, not being observed, safety, familiarity, all these things.   Clancy Allen: (32:10) And yet you step into the system and there's lights, there's strangers, there's a room you've never seen before in your life and you'll probably never be in again. There's surveillance with monitoring, there's technology, all the things that are totally the opposite of what supports birth flowing and the hormones working. For any woman to be able to birth a baby in that setting is just remarkable and just shows how-   Tahnee: (32:42) Adaptable we are?   Clancy Allen: (32:42) Yeah, exactly. That was helpful, to see that and look at all that. I've done so many things. I wrote a big blog post on it which is on my website, and I think there are about 20 things that I listed that I've done that have been really supportive in me getting perspective, and being able to sit with my story now and not feel triggered or upset, and to really see the lessons. And Pam England said… She wrote the Birthing From Within book and she's who I've studied with. And she had a traumatic first birth experience, which ended in a caesarian. And I think she was a midwife.   Clancy Allen: (33:29) And so, her lifelong quest was working out what the hell happened to me. And she finally one day just cracked up laughing out loud and realised, just had this epiphany, that she'd been looking for a way to heal her birth experience and doing all these things and exploring and investigating; but the cosmic joke, and the reason she laughed, was because her birth healed her. Yeah, it just eliminated so much for her. And I feel like that's been the case for me as well. It doesn't take away that it was painful and it wasn't what I wanted, but there's been gifts that have come from it for sure.   Tahnee: (34:16) Oh, that's really powerful. It's such an interesting thing, what you were just talking about with Sarah Buckley's work, because I remember listening to her podcasts with Daniel Vitalis when I was pregnant and they were just so.. It made so much sense. And I was reading Ina May as well and she was talking about how birth is the continuation of sex and if you're not comfortable having sex in front of strangers under bright lights why would you even think that you could birth that way.   Tahnee: (34:50) And it is incredible to me that we come in… Some people do successfully navigate that system. And I think about my own mum because she birthed me in a hospital and she always said to me she had to tell the doctor to fuck off so that she could walk up and down the hallway. Because she was like, “I used to birth horses,” because she would bred horses when she was a kid. And she was like, “I knew that when you were birthing you don't lie down on your back. You walk up and down.” And she's like, “I had to tell them to fuck off so I could squat in the hallway,” and all this stuff. And I just laughed.   Tahnee: (35:21) But it was interesting that her way of birthing sovereign was to be really strong and almost masculine in it and having to take her power. And I remember feeling those kinds of feelings when I was birthing and I can feel how my own tendency, I guess, is to muscle through something instead of to soften into something. And I think even if you've had a textbook good birth there are so many lessons from… Because it's such a big process and an initiation. And it's like if you take the time to reflect and to really nurture yourself through that process, you can come out with so much juice for your own development.   Tahnee: (36:02) And here I am. Aiya's is nearly four and I'm realising I've still been doing the same things. And I was talking to Jane Hardwicke Collings and she was talking about how we menopause that way too. We menopause how we live so we'll muscle through it, or we'll whatever your personal shit is. That's my shit. And I think it's like we can use these opportunities. We can all come to these things, whether they're positive or negative or whatever the framework is, to just, to develop ourselves.   Tahnee: (36:32) And that's what I've seen. Your work, to me, speaks so much to that opportunity that there is in this experience, that some of us have and some of us don't. Not everyone chooses to birth, but it can be such a rich fertile ground for self-transformation and for understanding ourselves better and for healing so much, I think. It was kind of a long way of saying it's so nice to speak to somebody who had a traumatic experience who's used it to fuel that positive change, I suppose.   Tahnee: (37:05) And also, I think it's good to remember that everyone's having these huge initiations no matter what type of birth you're having, whether it's under hospital lights with obstetricians coming in and out or whether it's at home quiet. It's a big process. And the more, as women, we can all rise together and honour each other in that and support each other, I think that to me is probably the thing that's missing. And I didn't find it in the mothers groups and the women's groups. I just didn't find the depth, I guess, that I was looking for.   Tahnee: (37:40) Because you've gone and studied all these things, I imagine you're having these conversations a lot with women who were interested in similar things. I know you do ritual and circle and ceremony, are there more of those things happening now and if women are, I guess, trying to honour their transformation through this time? Is it finding those communities and networks or is it…? Do you have any advice or suggestions on how to connect to like-minded women or that kind of thing?   Clancy Allen: (38:12) Yeah, a great question. I guess right now we're in an unusual situation with the distancing that's been in place over the last few months. I feel really stumped with this question.   Tahnee: (38:30) I know I probably through the biggest question at you.   Clancy Allen: (38:32) Do I have to edit that out?   Tahnee: (38:34) No. I think what I'm getting at… And it is a big question. Because what I'm really feeling is like women divide instead of leaning in. There's this tendency to like, okay, well I've got the baby now. I've done the birth. It was shit, but it's fine. It's done. I've muscled through the birth again, or I'll get through it if I ever want to do it again for a sibling. But, I've got the baby and that's the focus. I guess what I'm getting at is, to me, there's this really fertile territory that we're like if we ignore that opportunity, it's going to come up again and it's going to come up again.   Tahnee: (39:16) Like you said, human life never stops. We keep going through these initiations and transformations. Yeah, I guess I'm just getting at I know you've worked in ceremony and ritual and that space. And I know in other cultures they honour the mother or there's the confinement phase and then I'm sure that grandparents and aunties and people hold space. We don't really have that in our culture, I guess. And I guess what I'm getting at is, in your experience, where do women find that? Is t through.. Are there women's circles? I know that that's becoming a lot more popular.   Tahnee: (39:55) Now you do prenatal yoga. Are there postnatal yoga places where people talk about these things? Are there other spaces, I suppose, evolving or coming through in your experience that honour the process? Because a lot of what I've seen seems to be women doing it on their own or within a smaller group of friends that are similar minded. But, yeah, just I'm interested to know.   Clancy Allen: (40:17) Yeah. I think what I'm really interested in when I create space in a circle setting for women is offering a different framework, because we have framed birth and everything really even around it, like the prenatal part and postnatal, as a medical event. And Robbie Davis-Floyd, an anthropologist that you might have heard of, she talks about the American rite of passage of birth and it being an initiation to the technocratic model of birth. And that worldview is that our bodies are machines that are subject to failure and malfunction, and we can't fix that with technology.   Clancy Allen: (41:08) And that the whole thing is a medical event. And the prenatal stage is a series of obstetric rituals which are essentially grooming women towards accepting this technocratic model, and then the glucose test. And that these rituals really have no actual basis in any meaningful value. And then you see those rituals continue in the birth process with often meaningless interventions. And I see that that's pretty true really, because a lot of the birth practises that are being used are not rooted in evidence-based practise. They're just cultural norms. It's just the way things have been done, so we'll just keep doing it that way.   Clancy Allen: (42:10) I think evidence-based practise only came in 15 years ago. No, it was in the ‘90s and then it takes 15 years for policies to change. Delayed or immediate cord clamping is still just done routinely even though we know that delaying it is preferable so that that baby gets all its blood. That's just one example. But we're really groomed towards just accepting this with all these rituals as part of this initiation. I'm really interested in showing women a different way, that there's another map, there's another framework.   Clancy Allen: (42:52) And looking at some of the things from the Birthing from Within lineage like the symbol of the labyrinth, which is this beautiful, spiralling, meandering path, and applying that as a map to what the birth experience is like. Because a labyrinth have occurred across all cultures way before there was any communication or as far as we know. And it's a metaphor or a symbol for something across these cultures that's meaningful and so we can apply that to birth.   Clancy Allen: (43:30) And when you walk through a labyrinth, it can be meditative but it can also be a little bit disorientating and confusing because there's these twisting turning hairpin turns. And you think, “Am I nearly there yet?” Or, “Where am I?” And that really parallels how it can feel in the birth dance. Sometimes you can start to think that.   Tahnee: (43:54) Are we there yet?!   Clancy Allen: (43:54) Yeah. Well, you're disorientated. It's this really beautiful metaphor and I'm planning to build one on our property here for women to actually come and walk through to have that real embodied sense of that as a different way for looking at birth, shifting this medical lens that we're so enculturated or acculturated towards. And it's just everywhere. And the story of Inanna, the Sumerian goddess who went to the underworld, that story as well really speaks to the descent that we women in that journey of descent during birth or it might even be postnatally.   Clancy Allen: (44:45) Maybe you have this ecstatic birth but there's a challenge or a struggle, so your descent to the underworld is in that period. And those stories, those ancient mythologies, that's the first story that was ever recorded ever on clay tablets in Sumer, which is now modern day Iran or Iraq. One of those, sorry. But it's really powerful. And those stories are in our collective consciousness. A lot of the time, if we've never heard them before, we're not aware of it until we hear them.   Clancy Allen: (45:22) And for a lot of us that awakens something deep within us, a deep recognition or comfort, because we can all relate to that journey somehow. Some of those tools are some of the things that I am weaving or planning to weave into circle when I get going again.   Tahnee: (45:47) Yeah. Post-Rona?   Clancy Allen: (45:49) Yeah. Yeah, post-Rona, just to show a different way and for women to connect in a different way, and to have more meaning around the experience.   Tahnee: (45:59) Well, I think what I'm really hearing there is this is a non-linear journey. Our midwives were amazing, but it was very linear. It was like, “This weeks, that weeks, [inaudible 00:46:09].” It felt like, “Tick the box, tick the box.” You go through all the things. And I think that idea of not being held to a Gregorian calendar, not being held to, “Oh, you should birth in this amount of time.” Or even with my birth like, oh, you're a first time birth or you weren't to birth till tonight when I was telling them I was in labour at 6:00 AM.   Tahnee: (46:35) And they were like, “No, no.” And I'm like, “No, no. Yes, I know I'm having a baby. I don't know why, but I [inaudible 00:46:41].” And they were like, “Oh, no, I said, "No, I am.” I was like, “No, I am.” I'm lucky because of yoga. I think that I really have cultivated more of a relationship with my body, but I think there's so much lack of education around the physiology and the body's wisdom, and that these things aren't linear and they don't occur on a timeline, and babies come when babies come, and the baby initiates the birth through its hormonal… All of that stuff.   Tahnee: (47:11) It's like there's this really beautiful bigger story, I think, not being told. And then, yeah, I can really feel that when you said about an honour and, yeah, I can really feel that. Even if you had an ecstatic birth, I didn't have one, but I'm sure I remember being in the collective. I remember being with every birthing woman at one point and going like, “Oh my God. I totally understand” I mean, it was like one of those epiphanies you have when you're on another planet. But I get it. I just get it. I'm in it. I know it. And it was like if I've been not feeling safe and medicated and whatever, I wouldn't have had that experience. Yeah, I think-   Clancy Allen: (47:51) That's so profound.   Tahnee: (47:53) But it's so empowering too, because you come out and you see women differently. I see women now with so much strength, and I can admit to less judgement too. I used to think and go, “How could someone book in a caesarian?” But in that moment actually I was like, “Oh, I understand that decision. I understand all of it.” And I was like, “Here I am being all non-judgmental in my birthing.” I'm like [inaudible 00:48:19].   Clancy Allen: (48:19) You're in this great philosophical chat yourself.   Tahnee: (48:25) I was like, “Oh, that's really…” I think I grabbed Mase and he was like, “Okay, crazy lady. Keep doing the things.” But what you said about ritual, and I'd never thought of it that way, but it's such a powerful way to think about. Everyone goes for the 20-week ultrasound and everyone goes for this and these are the celebrations of our culture and they don't celebrate the woman or the… It's like the device is celebrated almost or the technology.   Clancy Allen: (48:56) It's a ritual towards compliance and towards acceptance of that dominant medical paradigm and the body as a machine. And I guess that's a symptom or an effect of the industrial revolution and the industrial birth complex.   Tahnee: (49:16) Yeah.   Clancy Allen: (49:17) And I find it really sad.   Tahnee: (49:18) It is really sad.   Clancy Allen: (49:20) Yeah.   Tahnee: (49:22) I mean, it's dehumanising in a way because if you look at… I actually have a book that was written by a German author and it's The Body as a Machine and I think it was one of the first anatomy books, if not the first. But I don't want to make that claim because I don't know. But that actually mapped out all of the functions of the body as mechanical functions. And it's crazy to look at. It has the penis as this little…   Clancy Allen: (49:51) Like a wind up toy.   Tahnee: (49:52) Yeah, it's really funny. And all the organs, there's all these little factories pumping away. But I remember I was really shocked when I first saw it, but I also was like, “I can actually relate to this,” which shocked me as well. This part of me recognises that because I've been brought up in that culture and I was like, “Oh.”And I feel like that's so far from how we try and live but, yeah. And there's still a part of me that buys into that idea, I suppose, on some level, so more unravelling. But so tell me more about Birthing from Within. What else are you talking about or doing when you work in that paradigm?   Clancy Allen: (50:33) Yeah. One of the things that I like to share, just as a starting point for someone who's interested in birthing from within, is the framework or the three ways of knowing to prepare for birth. The first way of knowing is the modern medical knowing. This is being or knowing the stages of labour, the physiology of labour, what the modern birth culture and system is like. It's pretty linear, like just assimilating the information you need to know, learning, taking it on. We're all pretty comfortable in doing that.   Clancy Allen: (51:13) And that's the easy part of preparing because that's the part that's valued by society as well. That's got the research and the statistics and the facts and figures and the concrete knowing that you need to know. The second way of knowing is the intuitive knowing. That's your gut instinct and your connection to your body or your innate knowing, which is not particularly valued by the mainstream and really isn't in birth as well. Like in your example you said, “I'm having this baby now,” and they were like, “Oh, that's silly girl. No, you're not. You're a first time mum. You don't know.”   Clancy Allen: (52:03) Of course, you know. You're the expert of your body. You're the one in your body having the experience. And so that way of knowing is really about cultivating your connection to that; which a lot of us are so disconnected from because we live, from the shoulders up, in a very mental place. And then this way of knowing is not valued because even if you're saying, “I know this is happening,” or, “Something's not right,” but if it doesn't correlate to what they understand about what might be happening and what the evidence and the statistics or whatever says, then, you might just be dismissed or disregarded.   Clancy Allen: (52:43) And then, yeah, we really do have this whole doctor-God-expert complex, which if we are in that then we don't value our own knowing because we value what they say. We externalise the knowing. That's a big one. And I guess things like yoga can help people connect to that. And anything that's just, I think, quietening down the mind and getting into your body and connecting with the feedback that you have from your body can help you to cultivate that. A following what your intuition might say and seeing what the outcome is.   Clancy Allen: (53:32) And so then, the third way of knowing is the inner knowing or knowing who you are. This is more about that excavation of your history and your background, and your beliefs, and what's lurking in your subconscious, and how much of the negative cultural narrative about birth being a medical event that you need to be saved from, that you've taken on, and what you really believe and what your you're birth imprint is. Yeah, that's really about unpacking all that and having a good hard look at it and confronting the fears and moving through them.   Clancy Allen: (54:09) Things like, I guess, kinesiology or even just talking to someone experienced like a birth mentor or journaling and, yeah, looking at who you are and what you might bring into the birth space is that part. And that's the part that I just didn't really realise, I guess, when I was pregnant until after. And so that really needs to be the thing that you focus on the most, probably. Yeah.   Tahnee: (54:41) If you're working with women, are you usually starting reasonably early in their pregnancy, or yeah? Because I imagine it takes time to go through.   Clancy Allen: (54:50) Yeah. Yeah, that's ideal like spending an extended period of time. I've enjoyed that when couples have contacted me quite early on and we start at, say, 16 weeks or something. It really gives the space to build the relationship and to go deep into all those themes and things and for them to integrate it. Yeah, that's my preference, but that doesn't always happen. Sometimes people come in quite late in the piece. But for the most part I would say people are coming in at least halfway.   Tahnee: (55:25) Yeah. My friend did a short fear session with you, but is that something you offer as well where you just work on specific aspects of what's coming up for someone, as more of a mentoring counsel?   Clancy Allen: (55:41) Yeah. Those are usually an hour to 90 minutes. And if there's something specific that you're ruminating on, or maybe there's a few things, then we can look at that. And it's called a courageous excavation of fear process. It's about moving through it and really looking at it and picking it up and, hopefully, coming out the other side feeling more empowered, more confident.   Tahnee: (56:10) That's what I heard.   Clancy Allen: (56:11) Yes.   Tahnee: (56:13) Yeah. But I think in even just speaking it. I spoke to that friend about it afterward and verbalising fear to someone who can hold it and who isn't going to react or be triggered by it. It's really powerful, I think.   Clancy Allen: (56:30) Yeah. There can be some really good shifts with that work if the person is willing to be vulnerable. And your friend was, so she was the perfect candidate. Yeah.   Tahnee: (56:43) Where does prenatal yoga fit into all this with you, because you've got your online course and stuff like that? Is that mostly an offering because people are at home or is there a value in people attending classes as well? Or what's your kind of take home with pre-natal yoga?   Clancy Allen: (57:01) Yeah. The way that I do it is I structure it as a six week block that people commit to and come to so that there's that familiar container for the six weeks. And I was doing that in person, probably only three or four times a year, and that worked beautifully. And it's just evolved, I guess, over the years that I've been teaching it and it's become a really… I think it's a really awesome offering. And yeah, now the online version is the same. It's six modules, so you go at your pace.   Clancy Allen: (57:42) But the idea is that it's education about birth from this lens of birthing from within and my own flavour fused with the yoga with a little bit of optimal maternal positioning, things that I've learned along the way. And it's really about that second way of knowing, so cultivating that connection really and that inner knowing and tuning into that. Because that's a big piece that we can all just have more practise with, but especially important to get ready for birth. I was going to say something else, but I've forgotten.   Tahnee: (58:24) Well, you've moved into the online space.   Clancy Allen: (58:26) Yeah.   Tahnee: (58:26) Is that a version of that course, like a six week kind of...   Clancy Allen: (58:32) Yeah, it's pretty much what I teach in person. In fact, it's probably a little bit more because I've put some other resources in there and some bonuses, and I guess you can keep going back to it. That's the benefit of that. And it was accelerated by the Rona. It was always something I was going to create before that all blew up, but it just happened a bit quicker. I was waiting for the perfect time till I was pregnant again and I was going to film it when I was pregnant. I was going to make sure I'd done another yoga teacher training before, because that was important too.   Clancy Allen: (59:10) And then Rona happened and I'm like, “Well, I'm not pregnant and that teacher training that I was going to go to in Bali in August is not going to be happening. I guess I'll just stay to get this out now.” And, look, things are going back to normal, sort of; but, anyway, it's there as a forever thing.   Tahnee: (59:29) Well, that's great for people that can't physically be with you so, yeah, a really good offering. We were talking about this a little bit before as well but you've recently, I think, gotten, a little bit uncomfortable with the word doula in your own work. Can you tell us a little bit about… You've been doing that for a couple of years, I guess just as a last question and what is it actually like to be there for a woman and then, as you've witnessed all of that, what do you want to see more of in that space from different care providers and just women in general? If you could remould the model a little bit, based on what you've seen, what do you think it would look like? Big question.   Clancy Allen: (01:00:13) It would look like women knowing how powerful they are and really owning their inner authority, and unlearning the seeking that we do outside of ourselves to validate our experience or to approve of it or to make sure we're okay. I know I did, in a way, during my own pregnancy and I participated in that system. And in some of the ways I engaged and participated I can see now, with the benefit of hindsight and reflection and everything, that I handed over my power in many ways.   Clancy Allen: (01:00:58) And there were opportunities in that journey to stand more in my power, but I can do that now. And I guess if I can impart anything to women who are navigating their experience and moving through the system it's for them to really own their experience and step into their autonomy over it, and be the expert of their body. And I think, yeah, the women I'm really speaking to now have just had some clarity on this in the past couple of days, so I'm speaking this out loud now for the first time.   Clancy Allen: (01:01:40) But the women that I feel that I'm really here to serve are the women who have had an experience in the system that was less than ideal and they've come out saying never again. Or maybe they were traumatised or maybe it just was really average and they're like, “No, there's got to be a better way.” Or maybe they're a woman who's really disillusioned with her prenatal appointments and feeling like her body is just a faulty machine and there's got to be something more to this, more depths, more meaning, more spirituality.   Clancy Allen: (01:02:20) Or maybe it's the woman who's had a child who's been damaged by that system in some way, or maybe she's had a chronic health condition in the past and moved through that system and found no answers whatsoever. And so I think the women I speak to, or that I'm calling in, are those women who are sort of… Yeah, they don't want to participate in that anymore. They're really willing to look within themselves for their own authority in their experience.   Tahnee: (01:02:57) Exciting times for you. And the other bit of that was what it's like, I guess, just to finish on a positive note. I'm sure there are some really beautiful experiences you've had as a doula and working with women.   Clancy Allen: (01:03:11) Definitely.   Tahnee: (01:03:14) Just how rewarding that, maybe, is for you.   Clancy Allen: (01:03:18) Yeah, it's been so rewarding. I just have had beautiful nourishing experiences supporting women. I've seen women in their power. I've seen women come back from having induced births three times and then on her fourth baby having this beautiful home birth experience. Yeah, but just being there after a woman has given birth and done that work and opened herself and expanded physically but also spiritually and being able to hold her and love her and shower her with kind words and compassion and tenderness is really rewarding. I love that. I   Clancy Allen: (01:04:10) I've often stayed for hours after the baby has been born; and a recent experience, the mum, she really needed that support after so I had a little sleep on the floor in the hospital and was there when she woke up because she was in and out of consciousness. Those moments are really special, so I hold those really dear to my heart. And, yeah, doulas are incredible because I think for the most part we have so much love to give to women and, yeah, I really believe in women.   Clancy Allen: (01:04:51) And I think what I was saying before about who I'm speaking to, remembering your innate power can apply to any woman wherever she chooses that she needs to birth, whatever the environment is that she feels safe in. It is a huge opportunity to step into your power. Yeah, that's the bottom line of it all for me, I think.   Tahnee: (01:05:20) Yes. Full power. Awesome. Okay, well, I'll leave you with that and I think that's a really powerful note to end on. But if people do want to connect with you, obviously we'll put links in the show notes to everything but mostly through… Instagram and your website are your main communication channels. Do you use Facebook as well?   Clancy Allen: (01:05:41) A little bit, yeah.   Tahnee: (01:05:42) Yeah, like most of us.   Clancy Allen: (01:05:45) It's like the poor cousin.   Tahnee: (01:05:46) Yeah, but we've moved on.   Clancy Allen: (01:05:50) Yeah.   Tahnee: (01:05:50) And if people wanted to reach you, they can contact you through your site. And actually, if they wanted to arrange a Skype session if they weren't in your area, is anything like that possible?   Clancy Allen: (01:06:00) Yeah.   Tahnee: (01:06:00) Awesome.   Clancy Allen: (01:06:02) Definitely. Yeah.   Tahnee: (01:06:03) Oh, that's so great. I think there'll be lots of women out there that really can learn about you a lot and really connect to how you approach birth. I'm really grateful for your time and for telling us your story. And yeah, thank you so much for being here with us, Clancy.   Clancy Allen: (01:06:15) Thank you. Thanks for having me, Tahnee.   Tahnee: (01:06:18) It's a pleasure. All right. Well, I'll talk to you soon.

The incredible Jane Hardwicke Collings joins Tahnee on the Women's Series today, to explore the cyclic nature of womanhood and the potency of menopause. Jane is a menstrual educator, midwife, teacher and writer. It is an exquisite delight and absolute honour to share in the vast nature of her knowledge and wisdom. The conversation shared between Tahnee and Jane is powerful, an important listen for all the women out there, both young and wise, who are keen to learn more about their own innate rythmns. Or for the men folk who are eager to understand and support their female friends and loved ones. Tahnee and Jane discuss: The cyclic nature of womanhood. Menstruation, menopause and the lunar cycle. The medicalisation of menopause, "menopause is not a disease. It doesn't have a diagnosis, and therefore it doesn't have symptoms." - Jane Hardwicke Collings Birth, menarche, motherhood and menopause as rites of passage. Rites of passage as key indicators of how individuals are valued culturally, based on which phase of the cycle they're in. How the menopausal shift in luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone can increase a woman's intuition and visionary capacity. What our experience of menarche teaches us about being a woman and how that impacts our experience of menopause. The cultural shame that surrounds the menstrual cycle in Western society. What menopause or 'mimi' signifies in the cultures of Australia's First Nations Peoples. The concept of the "mother line" or "red thread" theme when going through menopause. How to prepare for yourself for menopause - "the best thing anybody can go into menopause with is inner strength." - Jane Hardwicke Collings Who is Jane Hardwicke Collings? Jane Hardwicke Collings is a grandmother, midwife, teacher, writer and menstrual educator. Jane gives workshops in Australia and internationally on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth, and menopause – a modern-day Women’s Mysteries Teacher.   Resources: Jane's Website Jane's Online Courses The School of Shamanic Womancraft  The School Of Shamanic Womancraft Podcast About Bloody Time Book Cedar Barstow Website Christiane Northrup Website Lara Owen Website   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:00) Hi everybody. Welcome to the SuperFeast podcast. Today I have Jane Hardwicke Collings with me, and she's a grandmother, midwife, teacher, writer and menstrual educator. Jane was a home birth midwife for 30 years, and she gives workshops on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation and the spiritual practise of menstruation and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause. She's a modern day women's mysteries teacher and she founded and runs the School of Shamanic Womancraft and International Women's Mysteries School.   Tahnee: (00:33) I'm very excited to have you here today Jane. You were requested heavily by our community when we were reaching out about who people wanted to hear from. We had I think probably 50 plus emails and messages about you, so you're very popular.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (00:51) Oh wow, that's cool. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm very honoured to be here with you.   Tahnee: (00:57) Yeah, super exciting. I wanted to chat to you today about menopause in particular. You do have such a rich background, but we've spoken a lot about birth and menstrual issues and the younger women's journey, but we haven't spoken a lot about these later stages of womanhood and what it means to transition from a woman who bleeds to a woman who no longer bleeds, and what that kind of means both on a spiritual level and on a physical level. I know you've got some insights around this and have a course coming on your website soon, which is really exciting.   Tahnee: (01:34) I wondered if you could, if you're open to it, share some of your journey with us and how you came to be interested in these topics. That would be a great place to start I think.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:43) Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Like this hidden rite of passage of menopause that seems to have been either ignored or forgotten or at least not talked about. As a midwife, I absolutely thought that there could not possibly be anything more transformational than giving birth until I went through menopause. I learned so much from my experience, and there wasn't that much around to learn from, but that's not a problem because the experience teachers one everything one needs to learn if one is open to it.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (02:31) I'm not sure which is feared more, childbirth or menopause. Probably childbirth because menopause is just not even talked about. It's something that we really, really need to reclaim and embrace because it's inevitable. You can avoid it if you like, but that would be a waste of an amazing transformational opportunity. My journey to menopause was, well it's kind of similar to other women who are obsessed with the menstrual cycle, which-   Tahnee: (03:13) More and more women are, which is really exciting.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (03:17) It's so exciting. Approaching my menopause, I was like, "Oh no, how am I ever going to be able to live my life without my menstrual cycle? I'm so obsessed by it. I use it all the time to guide me and working with the energies, et cetera. What would it be like without it? Oh no." I was approaching it with well I guess some worry about what life would be like without my menstrual cycle. It's very different. It's an interesting process to shift from the cycle of one's menstrual cycle into the cycle without the blood.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (04:05) When you learn all about the menstrual cycle, one of the most interesting things that we learn is that the blueprint for the menstrual cycle is to follow the cycle of the moon, and we won't go into that in great detail now and it's very easy to find information about it, but the point of raising that now is that the moon doesn't go away when your periods do. So there she is up in the sky and there's a return to the lunar clock or the lunar calendar, like a recalibration for one from the perimenopausal journey on to reconnect with the original blueprint cycle of the moon and be with that.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (04:59) It's not like there's no cycle anymore. There is that cycle that's always been there in the background anyway, and so the experience of or my experience of my cycle after my menstrual cycle stopped, which was to fully tap into the lunar cycle, is similar to the menstrual cycle but not as intense. There's not the high highs of ovulation and the low lows of bleeding, and I don't mean low in a negative way, I mean deep.   Tahnee: (05:30) Interior, yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (05:32) The heights and depths of the menstrual cycle and not there in the post-menopausal cycle. There's similarities, like I feel the fully moon and the dark moon and the journey there and back, but it's not as intense. In some ways and for very, very many, many, many women, there's a lot of relief in that too, especially if there's been pathology around the menstrual cycle through the journey. The cycle remains and yet it is gentler. Shall I just talk a little bit about the whole thing?   Tahnee: (06:08) Yeah, I'm super interested. That just brought up a load of, because I had this intuition that it was a steadying I guess of those rhythms or like a harmonising, I suppose, because I know so many young women go through really big ebbs and flows, like the tides are big tides. Yeah, I've seen what you're speaking to, is what I felt a sense of what menopause is offering. I'm really interested to hear you speak more about it, so please, go.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (06:36) Yeah. Well it's a journey to that. I stopped bleeding when I was 56, and I'm turning 62 this year. I'm nearly six years since stopped bleeding, and is till have hot flashes. I have different sleeping patterns to what I used to have. It's not something that you go through and then it's back to normal. There is no back to normal. There is-   Tahnee: (07:06) The new normal.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (07:07) Exactly, which is what we're experiencing now with the pandemic. The big questions of what will it be like after this, when we get through this. What will happen? Will we be going back to business as usual? Those are all the same questions that women are asking themselves when they're going through the perimenopausal journey, and the answers to it are, well, let's see, or everything will be revealed or the unravelling will result in the answer to that, et cetera, et cetera, but the bottom line is that it's not business as usual. There's no return to normal. There is a new normal, which is something that we're all getting acquainted with now.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (07:51) It's very interesting how quickly and maybe not easily, but we adapt to or adopt new normals. I think the experience with the pandemic will be something that perimenopausal women will be able to relate to, like the whole unknowns around it. I'm saying the word perimenopausal a lot, so I just want to define that. Peri means around, so around menopause. Menopause is a moment. It's the last menstrual cycle that you have, and you never know. You never know when it's going to be the last one, like you never know when it's going to be the last breastfeed or never know when it's going to be the first period or you never know when the baby's going to come or whatever, whatever. It's one of those mysteries, as they're called. The women's mysteries. There's lots of mystery to them.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (08:44) Perimenopause is probably the term to use to describe the journey because, as I said, menopause just means the last period. Then there's post-menopause, which is when one has reached the medically designated period of time that you're meant to have no period for, to then be a post-menopausal woman, and different people say different things. Often it's one year without a period and others say two years to get your diagnosis of being post-menopausal, but therein lay the trick and the trap there because menopause is not a disease. It doesn't have a diagnosis, and therefore it doesn't have symptoms.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (09:32) You can see with the language used around it that it's really been-   Tahnee: (09:39) Medicalized.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (09:40) Exactly, and unfortunately like the menstrual cycle as well. It's a rite of passage. Menopause is a rite of passage, and knowing that gives us the clues about what it holds for us. A rite of passage is a major transformation in our lives and there's physical rites of passage and there's cultural rites of passage. Cultural rites of passage are things like getting married, first job, graduating, getting divorced, going to school for the first time. First car.   Tahnee: (10:21) First car. Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (10:21) First what?   Tahnee: (10:21) Oh, I said first car, I think we were in sync.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (10:26) First car, yeah. The big one.   Tahnee: (10:29) Yeah, 18th, all that kind of stuff, yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (10:30) All of that, yeah. Then there's the physical rites of passage or the women's mysteries, that they call the blood mysteries. Obviously I'm referring to the female experience of those. Men have these similar rites of passage, but they're nowhere near as intense as the female version of it, like menopause for a woman compared to a say-   Tahnee: (10:53) Andropause or something.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (10:54) Yeah, or midlife crisis. Same with giving birth, like the woman's experience of becoming a mother compared to a man's experience of becoming a father is very, very different. Not not significant, but different. A rite of passage is this time of transformation and whatever happens during the time, whatever happens or doesn't happen, whatever's said or not said and whatever's going on in the world around you or in your family or whatever, all of that teaches the person going through the rite of passage how their culture values the next phase they're going into.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (11:34) With menopause, it's into the wise woman years or the ageing you, the middle aged you. What happens, teaches us how our culture values the next role we're going into and therefore how to behave to be accepted by the culture. So that's the case for every rite of passage. So birth, menarche or first period and then every pregnancy results in a birth regardless of whether it makes it all the way, and then menopause and then death. They're the physical rites of passage.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (12:10) This is such big work and I just want to really encourage your listeners to think about what each of their rites of passage have taught them about how their culture values the next role they're going into and therefore how to behave by what their experience was. Just to focus on menopause, I guess the thing is that what we've already talked about is how it's hidden and not talked about and possibly feared and kind of ignored, and so what does that teach us about how our culture values it? Doesn't, or it needs to be hidden or covered up or whatever, and therefore, how do you behave to be accepted by your culture? You stay invisible.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (12:58) You don't draw any attention to yourself, and you just keep it low and quiet and just carry on. There's even investigations by our scientific community, especially evolutionary biologists to ask the big question of why would it be that human women, human females, sorry, would live beyond their fertile years? What's the point?   Tahnee: (13:21) I've actually read that stuff online. They're like, "Only whales and humans live past menopause. Why is that?"   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (13:27) I know! As a post-menopausal woman to have one's value questioned, what is the use of me, that's a really-   Tahnee: (13:39) Devastating, yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (13:41) Yeah, and ridiculous and information. A bit of a clue, right? A fertile woman is the most valuable woman, and obviously on an evolutionary level, that's a very important role, to be reproducing, but the reasons they've come up with that you would have read the most popular hypothesis is called the grandmother hypothesis.   Tahnee: (14:08) Yeah, the cultural reasons.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (14:10) Yeah, that the babies, the children of a woman whose mother is alive and helping her last, live longer or make it through childhood. The value of the post-menopausal woman, according to the evolutionary biologist's theory of grandmother is that the use of us is to help our daughters and sons, children stay alive by gathering more food and all of that kind of stuff.   Tahnee: (14:40) It's still so reductive too. I mean it takes away your value.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (14:47) Which gives us a clue to how our culture values wise women. It's not that many hundreds of years ago that the wise women were burned on the stake.   Tahnee: (14:56) Yeah. The witch trials [inaudible 00:14:58].   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (14:58) We got a long way to come back from that. The wise woman is not valued in our culture. Nobody's trying to dress up to look like her, are they? They're all trying to dress up to look like a 25 year old. She's actually the most loved and honoured-   Tahnee: (15:18) Archetype sort of thing.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (15:20) Exactly. The archetype of the wise woman is not one that's terribly honoured or cared about, and we see that through the experience that women have around the rite of passage. That's the whole thing about the rite of passage of menopause, and it's not an isolated event. Rites of passage build on each other, and one leads to the next. They are also massive healing opportunities because their transformation takes place there. To bring to menopause, what we would hope is that by the time women get to menopause, they've kind of awoken to their inner knowing and feminine wisdom and power and strength, but many don't and many haven't.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (16:06) What we can do in a conscious way of approaching menopause is to remember what we've learned about ourselves so far, because that's the person that we're going to meet at the altar of menopause, so to speak. It's a really huge experience, and it takes some time. It can take 13 years, and it's an experience that is like a birth. It's a labour and a birth, and the labour is the perimenopausal journey and can take, as I said, up to 13 years. The birth, the baby is the wise woman version of ourselves, and the entrance into the maga life season, which is a relatively newly recognised life phase or life season in a woman's life.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (17:07) Nature is such a great teacher. If we use nature as the teacher here, we can see our maiden years, which are like zero, from our birth to around 25 are our maiden years, and then at 25 we all go into our mother season, the summer of our lives. So the maiden is the spring, the mother is the summer and every woman goes into the summer mother season of her life at around 25 regardless of whether she has children or will have children. We enter these years from 25 to menopause, and in those years we are as if the creatrix. So we conceive, gestate and birth all manner of things besides human babies like careers-   Tahnee: (17:53) Ideas.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (17:55) ... [crosstalk 00:17:55], businesses, gardens, projects, whatever. Then at around ... Well the average age for menopause is 50, 51. So then we enter the second half of our lives. In Traditional Chinese Medicine, menopause is called the second spring, and so that gives a very nice perspective on it rather than the beginning of the end. Back in the day, when we were ... Well so the original archetypes of the female life story are maiden, mother and crone. That's the triple goddess that most people who are students of the women's mysteries are well aware of, and that's a very old story, maiden, mother and crone, and it comes from a time when we were mothers by the time we were 14, grandmothers by the time we were 30 and dead by the time we were 45 or so.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (19:08) If we reached menopause, average age 50, then we must be very close to death. That little perspective has unfortunately hung on.   Tahnee: (19:21) Despite many changes to life expectancy.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (19:24) Exactly. Now when we get to menopause average age 50, we now live to, what, let's say 100. We're halfway. It's not the beginning of the end. It's the beginning of the next half of your life. Rather than that being crone, which crone is the old woman, the winter of our lives. Now with our longer lives, we can embrace and invite in the autumn season of our lives, which would go from say 50, average age of menopause to just say 70, which would be the beginning of the crone or winter season of our lives.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (20:06) The menopause heralds the autumn season of our lives, which is a really powerful and potent and important part of the cycle of the earth. Autumn is the harvest season. It's actually, back in the day before we could go down to the supermarket at 1:00 in the morning and buy a mango in the middle of the winter, we were reliant on our gardening and farming capabilities to keep ourselves alive. Autumn, the harvest season was the time when we were so busy and so busy in community as well gathering together to do whatever we had to do with the 100 zucchinis that we had or [crosstalk 00:20:57].   Tahnee: (21:00) Pickling.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (21:00) Pickling. [crosstalk 00:21:01].   Tahnee: (21:01) Reaping what we've sowed, right, [crosstalk 00:21:03]?   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (21:02) Yeah, and sharing. You've got all those whatever, I'll swap you my pumpkins for your broccoli or whatever. If we can remember, whether romantically or actually, the sharing of the harvest idea, then that's what we can bring to understanding the autumn season of our lives, that it's an important part of our lives where we get to see and share our harvest and shift into a different kind of living style and experience based on not having the menstrual cycle anymore.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (21:50) The name that I was taught for the autumn season of our lives from one of my teachers in America, Cedar Barstow, is maga, M-A-G-A, and Cedar's about 10 or 15 years older than me, so she went through all of this before me, and was sharing her experience in her community when her group of similarly aged friends and colleagues, when they went through menopause, their mothers, many of them had their mothers still alive. They could see that they were crones, their mothers. They were old, wise women, and yet there was this cohort of them, around 50 or so shifting from the mother season into this other season, which they called maga, and they called it maga as a female version of the male term that's quite well known and used for men of that age called magus, which means magician.   Tahnee: (22:49) [inaudible 00:22:49]. Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (22:50) Yeah, exactly. Maga is one of the words that can be used, and there are many others that are used and that is enchantress or sovereign woman or matriarch or amazon, queen, warrioress, witch, priestess, changing woman. Get the picture, she's next level.   Tahnee: (23:24) She sounds like a dude. I'm excited.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (23:26) She's a total dudess.   Tahnee: (23:28) Yeah, dudess.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (23:31) She's very much one version of the woman we need now, the earth needs now. The earth needs now, these women who are aware of their sovereignty, who are aware of their power and their connection to the earth and magic and will. One of the most amazing things that happens post-menopause when two of the main hormones of reproduction actually change their role, that's luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone, which are part of the cocktail that make ovulation happen and sustain hormone levels for pregnancy, et cetera. They change their role post-menopause and they change their role to become neurotransmitters of the right side of the brain.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (24:29) The effect that they have is that they increase our intuition and our visionary capacity.   Tahnee: (24:38) Yeah, because I've heard they activate the pineal gland and that sort of third eye space I suppose, or the intuitive seat.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (24:46) Yeah. Imagine if the women in this phase in their lives were really aware of that first, but using ... That's what we need. We need visionaries. We need the intuitive grandma to participate in life. It's not like it's all over situation. It's a whole new story. The maga life season, I think the work of that, the story of that, the information about that has probably been one of the biggest and most impactful things that I've shared in my work and my writing because when women who are approaching menopause hear about this whole other season, it's like a relief and a bit exciting and gladness making that it's not all over. It's actually next level.   Tahnee: (25:46) It's just beginning.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (25:47) Yeah, exactly. It has a lot of responsibilities. Post-menopausal women not being so under the influence of their menstrual cycle have more energy. They don't usually have little children anymore. They're more established in themselves and who they are in the world and what they do and all that. They're not trying to figure out what to do with their lives, they're doing it. With an increased visionary capacity and intuition, they're a very valuable member of the community that I think that would be a wonderful thing to harness, like a band of post-menopausal warrioresses. I'm [inaudible 00:26:36] with that.   Tahnee: (26:35) Well it's funny, there's a group here called the Knitting Nana's and they send out all these amazing newsletters about fossil fuels, and they just dedicate their time to research and education around environmental issues. I'm thinking of them. I'm just thinking of also the Hindi life cycle has a similar arc where it's from zero to 25 you're sort of a student, and then from 25 to 50 you're in the child family, building stage of life and then 50 to 75 you're giving back to your community with your insight or wisdom. Then 75 to 100 is the spiritual years.   Tahnee: (27:13) If you look at all the longevity communities, because I know the Taoist tradition has a similar life cycle, and the indigenous people of this country had that as well, like until 30 you were a baby and then 30 to 60 were kind of those community years, and then onward into your wisdom years and your spiritual years. I think it's such a call to arms to women to use this transformational time to step into some greater sense of their own purpose and power.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (27:43) Absolutely.   Tahnee: (27:44) More so even than ... because I see so many young women seeking that really early, like in their 20s, and I'm compassionate and also remembering myself and thinking even from 18 to 35, I'm still not completely sure of what I'm contributing to the world yet. I'm still finding my passions and the things that light me up and things I can share without draining myself. I think that we've got to give ourselves more time, and it sounds to me like when you get into those 50s and 60s, you're starting to I guess condense. I think about Metal and how it condenses Water into something substantial and that wisdom of the Kidney energy and the winter energy in Chinese medicine. That's the kind of metaphor, I suppose, that's coming is that this is the time to condense all of your life experience into insight to contribute that back.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (28:35) Exactly.   Tahnee: (28:36) Yeah. Sounds purposeful.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (28:41) Our culture needs that now more than ever.   Tahnee: (28:46) Yeah. I think the leadership role, we're all obviously over this middle aged white men thing that's going on, it's about time we brought back some of this feminine power and wisdom. I've been reading a lot of the Celtic myths lately because I'm Irish descent and Scottish, and I've realised I've read a lot of the Native American, but not really so much from the Celts. They talk about the goddess of sovereignty, and when you're talking about that, I was thinking about that a lot, like that deep rooted connection to the land and that sort of sense of independence and self-composure and strength that comes from just tapping into those natural rhythms. This is all what's coming through for me listening to you speak.   Tahnee: (29:35) I'm curious, so many women, when they hear the word perimenopause, they just freak out. They just immediately I think go into panic and I've spoken to a lot of women, because we work with herbs so a lot of women contact us in those times and they're looking for something to sort of I guess make it all go away, and I'm obviously uncertainty as how to advise a lot of the time in terms of the emotional side of it because I haven't experienced it myself that I often think this is such a potent time for self-reflection and probably to step back from things for a period while we I guess assimilate some of these ideas. Is that something you recommend? How do people navigate this time if they don't have structures and cultural support?   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (30:17) Well it's really like a classic situation where wherever you go, there you are. Everybody is going to meet themselves at each rite of passage and really meet yourself. I just wrote down what you just said then about one of the main things women want to do is to make it go away. Where does that come from? I'm not going to wait for you to answer, I'm going to take us straight to the menstrual cycle.   Tahnee: (30:47) Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (30:48) She who was initiated into womanhood at the altar of menarche, so menarche being your first period, is the woman that grows up and goes through and has babies and then goes through menopause and into her old years and then dies. We are really looking at menopause, what we can really see is what was the experience that our menarche taught us about being a woman. The "make it go away" is the classic thing.   Tahnee: (31:26) Sure is, yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (31:28) We've done some amazing research on the menstrual cycle and menopause. We did it in cahoots with the Victorian Women's Trust, and there's a wonderful book that was created out of all of the research and then the analysis of it called About Bloody Time.   Tahnee: (31:44) I like that name.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (31:45) The menstrual revolution we have to have, and anybody who's interested in the menstrual cycle and interested in the impact of it in our culture, it's a great resource and wonderful thing to read, and you can get it through the Victorian Women's Trust. Anyway, a big thing about the research there and anybody who is involved in menstrual education will know that most commonly the experience women have at menarche, their first period, teaches them that they need to just carry on regardless. Hide it. Don't really let anybody know about it and whatever you do, don't leak.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (32:40) What gets set up there is shame, menstrual shame, and we know that menstrual shame is actually the pandemic and menstrual shame leads to body shame, which leads to low self-esteem, which leads to all the behaviours associated with that including at its worst, eating disorders and self-harm. Also, actually leads to dangerous sexual decision making, and also the large use of hormonal contraceptives, especially the pill to turn it off.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (33:25) Our culture is very successful at making the menstrual cycle go away.   Tahnee: (33:31) It's our specialty.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (33:33) To our peril, right?   Tahnee: (33:35) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (33:36) The menstrual pathology and the denial of cyclical nature of women and even the denial of the cyclical nature of the earth has been one of the main things that's got us into the total fucking mess that we're in now. Then we see that "make it go away" happen in childbirth.   Tahnee: (33:59) Oh totally, yeah. Numb me, inject me.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (34:03) Yeah, make it go away, make it go away. By the time we get to menopause, if we haven't awoken to the idea that "make it go away" is actually part of the way to keep women oppressed. If we haven't figured that out and have risen accordingly, then "make it go away" at menopause is a very easy thing to do. There's all kinds of drugs that you can take to make it go away, but the problem is it doesn't actually go away, it just goes on pause. The same for-   Tahnee: (34:39) With the birth control pill.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (34:40) With birth control pill, exactly.   Tahnee: (34:41) Yeah, like a weird faux pregnancy.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (34:43) Yeah, like you're in some sort of limbo, weird limbo land, and look, to be fair, for some women, their experience of the menstrual cycle and childbirth and menopause are so extreme and they don't have the internal or external resources to be able to navigate it. I really support everybody's choices in whatever they choose; however, I really want to be sure that everybody has all the information so that they can be making informed decisions rather than just the current-   Tahnee: (35:21) Yeah, well it's disgusting how little education is done by mainstream health when prescribing these things. That's something that I find so frustrating, and one of the reasons we're doing this series for women in the first place is just to have these conversations and for people to start to maybe at least educate themselves to a baseline level about what's actually happening when you take a hormonal contraceptive or when you medicate your perimenopause or something like that. The impact can be really deleterious, and people think it's themselves. They blame their bodies and they blame this ... Especially women because it's so easy for women to feel shame and to blame the body and to think of the body as something other than ourselves and something that needs to be controlled and managed.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (36:15) Absolutely.   Tahnee: (36:15) It's like, no, this thing ... I mean even during this pandemic, I've just let my body go fully, just completely natural and wild, and I don't know, I'm feeling so strong. It's been such an interesting, because I've been pretty au naturale anyway, but even just with like I'm wearing softer clothes because I'm not having to go out as much. I'm just feeling very different in this time, and that's been a big shift for me and I'm trying to even imagine if you're going through menopause, it gives such an opportunity to heal some of these wounds if they aren't already things that you've considered or worked with or started to navigate.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (36:57) Dr. Christiane Northrup has a lot of wonderful things to say about women's health, but she also has heaps on menopause, which is [crosstalk 00:37:05].   Tahnee: (37:05) Yeah, [crosstalk 00:37:06] really great.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (37:06) Yeah. She calls menopause the mother of all wake-up calls.   Tahnee: (37:10) Totally.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (37:11) It so is, because it's like everything that you've swept under the carpet comes out at menopause, and that's due to what happens with the hormones, which I'll just mention in a minute, but the other quote of hers around menopause is that besides being the mother of all wake-up calls, it's an experience that's designed to heal all the unhealed parts of you. If you don't want to heal menstrual ... Well if you don't want to heal your body shame and you want to keep being ashamed of your body and covering it up and altering it in whatever ways that you can, then you can keep doing that, but it gets harder and harder and has to happen more and more often and gets more and more expensive and probably more and more dangerous too to be altering your body in all the chemical and surgical ways that you still can.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (38:12) The opportunity at menopause is to heal all the unhealed parts of you. That's a big invitation, but it's an invitation that you need to be ready for and prepared for and open to. It's not necessarily going to be easy. It's one meets one's self there. It's not like some demon out of the cupboard, unless you've kept yourself in the cupboard and you've turned into a demon, then it probably will be. It's such an opportunity to grow up and to accept that there are things that are never going to happen again or things that are forever changed.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (39:07) In a world that's fixated on youth and beauty and the growth cycle, that's all seen as useless. It's quite a big shift that needs to happen within one's self to be able to really get the most out of menopause. Many women sail through it and have no issues, but those who embrace it as the transformation that it's offering are going to have the experience they need to have to teach them whatever they need to learn. One of the best things in preparation for menopause is to make peace with all your experiences through your mother season. One of the biggest ways we see that show up at perimenopause or definitely post-menopause is that there's going to be no more babies.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (40:07) That might be something that you're glad of or it might be-   Tahnee: (40:12) [crosstalk 00:40:12] or relief or both.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (40:13) Yeah. Relief or regret. There's so much of that. For some, the relief is like a whole new life opens up, and for some the regret is like the thing they've been trying to ignore for the last however many years they can't anymore. 60% of divorces apparently happen around menopause and initiated by the women. There's this them. It's like, "What have I been putting up with all this time," and that can be around anything. I mean it'll be around everything. At the first period, around menarche, it's like a veil descends on one, and it's the veil of oestrogen and progesterone.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (41:07) Oestrogen is known as the hormone of accommodation. What that means is that through the mother season of our lives, we sacrifice ourselves for our children or our businesses or our careers, whatever it is we're mothering. We sacrifice ourselves for it, and we're richly rewarded for that. It feels really, really good to dedicate our lives to the things that we really care about and want to help grow and survive and mature and all that.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (41:48) Then around say five years or so, before the last period, so you never really know, as I said, but there is some familiarity in family. If your mother hand a natural menopause, then your age will probably be similar to hers. About five years before that, this veil begins to rise, and so as the hormone of accommodation lessens within one's self, we're not so interested in sacrificing everything for everybody anymore, and the most uttered words are "How come I'm the only one who does anything around here?" or "Why can't you do that" or "You've been doing that for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (42:36) People say, "You've changed." Yes, I've changed. It was okay yesterday, it's not okay today. Yes, that's right, it's not okay today. It's up in the air and it's confusing and it's confusing for the woman and it's confusing for the people she lives with, and it's a whole new ball game. The woman who's going through the experience, she kind of doesn't even recognise herself either, and she definitely doesn't know who she's going to be on the other side of this because she's never ever been that person before. What we have never run on the cocktail of hormones post-menopause ever in our lives, so it's a whole new version of us.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (43:22) There can be positives in that, and there can be negatives, especially around life purpose. For a woman who's had children particularly and post-menopause, there's her life, her children have probably grown up quite a lot and there's the negative version post-menopause called the empty nester where women's life purpose of raising their families is they're no longer needed for that, and that's quite a challenge. Christiane Northrup suggests to women around that that they try and remember what they were interested in pre-menarche, before they were socialised into being a woman through their menstrual cycle and being coerced kind of into being the way women need to be in the patriarchal culture. Prior to that, post-menopausal women who are looking for "What's my thing," can remember what their thing was before their periods started, that can be a bit of a clue to the un-brainwashed female version of themselves, and maybe they can pick up that interest post-menopause.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (44:43) The thing is that everything's different after menopause. You don't have the same ... the same things don't matter as much. It's very interesting. I had a big conversation with one of our wonderful aboriginal elders who shares her wisdom, Minmia many-   Tahnee: (45:10) Oh I've read her book. I love her book.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (45:11) Yeah.   Tahnee: (45:12) Yeah, Under The Quandong Tree Tree.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (45:14) Exactly. I sat with her one day with pen and paper going as fast as I could asking [crosstalk 00:45:21], and I said to her, "So what about menopause?" She said, "I don't know any woman whose worthy of the transformation into mimi. I don't know anyone who's ready for that, koori or white woman." She said, "Everybody's just trying to look young and keep doing what they always do, and they all turn into cougars."   Tahnee: (45:52) She's been watching too much TV.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (45:56) I said, "Okay, so in all the books around menopause and the talking about menopause, everybody says it's a time for renegotiating things, like renegotiating work/life balance, renegotiating relationships, renegotiating your relationship with your body, et cetera, et cetera." She said to me, "Oh that's such a western way of thinking, renegotiating." She said, "It's not that at all." She said, "Post-menopause, when you become a mimi," so that's their word for it, mimi, she said, "It's not business as usual, it's not renegotiated life. It's a whole new role."   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (46:39) She said, "The role of the mimi, the role of the post-menopausal woman is to weave the dreams for the grandchildren."   Tahnee: (46:47) That's beautiful.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (46:49) Yeah. It's not that you're trying to return to what life was like before the rite of passage of menopause, it's a whole new thing. It's not about trying to do what you were doing before. It's about weaving the dreams for the grandchildren. To my mind, that means preserving the world for our grandchildren and like that group that you just mentioned, the Knitting Nana's. You know the environment is a classic place where we have to be focusing for that.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (47:24) It's a total cultural shift to embrace menopause in a way that nature teachers us about the autumn. It's not a carrying on of the summer. It's not a repeat of the spring. It's the harvest. It's the time when you need to give back and share everything that you've learned and to continue to focus on yourself in the way that you need to be able to to get on with your life. You really need to be healthy. I remember in my very first menopause workshop, Autumn Woman Harvest Queen workshop, one of the woman who was going, just entering her perimenopausal experience said, "Oh, okay, I get it. I can't live on Vegemite sandwiches anymore."   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (48:17) You need to nourish yourself properly. I mean you need to nourish yourself properly the whole time, but the cost is higher post-menopausal. How you go through menopause, you're setting yourself up for your old age. So we need to train around menopause. We need to be doing exercise in the way that we would have been doing way back before everything got really easy. In the farming sort of way that we had to live, we need to recreate a lifestyle that's supporting our bodies and growing us strong and keeping us healthy, and we need to be nourishing ourselves on every level. Not just by food, but by adopting proper daily practises that include meditation and reflection and especially connection with nature.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (49:13) I think probably if there's one thing that I would suggest to anybody going through the journey of perimenopause and postmenopause is to spend as much time as you can in nature and time alone. Lara Owen and Susun Weed, two people who have written quite a lot about menopause-   Tahnee: (49:34) Yeah, I've spoken to both of them. I've been very lucky.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (49:38) Yeah. Good. They suggest that menopausal women take a sabbatical, take a year off to remember yourself, to put yourself back together into your being so that you're ready for the second half of your life. Time alone in whatever way you can, a bit like a red tent or moon lodge experience to the max, as much time as you can have just on your own and as I said, especially in nature. I think that the other important things around menopause are around communication and education.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (50:16) As the woman in the family starts to go through menopause, everybody needs to understand what's going on so that they can understand what her experience is and she can feel supported in that, in the same way that you would be around someone having a baby. If someone's getting toward the final days of pregnancy and the baby's coming and in the newborn period, that woman needs to be cared for in a particular way, and it's kind of obvious, and that's what's required, and same, same in menopause. It's a woman going through a rebirth and she needs to be cared for an understood in that process.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (51:01) It's not just a normal time anymore. Education and communication within the family and the community, and menopause workplace policies are a thing, especially in England because a lot of the women who work there are post-menopausal too. Menopause workplace policies are a growing and very important thing to enable women to be able to self-care during their working hours, and that can be as simple as having a bloody window to open or a fan to access or more flexible working hours for women who are experiencing insomnia, which is a very common experience in perimenopause.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (51:49) Rather than ignoring it or remember the legacy of the menstrual cycle, ignore it and carry on and don't let anybody know, but taking that into perimenopause makes life very, very difficult and a lot of women leave work because they can't pretend nothing's happening. A hot flush that comes, which affects about 80% of women in the perimenopausal journey, you can't ignore it. It's, say, a 90 second probably experience of an increase in your body temperature that takes all your attention and all your awareness, and if you're in a culture or in a situation where you have to ignore and pretend nothing's happening, that's going to be really difficult.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (52:38) More often what happens is women isolate themselves or quit their jobs because you can't pretend it's nothing's happening. Or you can be medicating yourself so that it turns it off, which is the other option, but then you miss the opportunity that I think we can see quite a similar experience around childbirth, say. If you have a drug free birth, you have a very different experience to if you have a drugged birth.   Tahnee: (53:05) I was wondering, are they kind of like a Russian birth, almost like a contraction in the sense of [crosstalk 00:53:10].   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (53:10) Exactly.   Tahnee: (53:13) I mean if you can give yourself that opportunity to be present with it, I imagine there's a lot of self-growth and discovery in that.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (53:21) Yeah. My experience with hot flashes, to be fair and to be honest, I find them extremely annoying. That's no surprise to me because anything that stops me and brings me into the present moment can be a bit annoying to me.   Tahnee: (53:41) Yeah, definitely.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (53:42) And there in lay my learning and my important thing that my hot flashes are obviously remaining to teach me.   Tahnee: (53:49) Remind you.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (53:49) Yeah, like come into the present moment.   Tahnee: (53:53) Totally. I feel that's similar with birth because I felt when I was birthing the contractions, when I was fighting them were much worse than when I learned to work with them, and the pain almost went away once I realised their function I suppose. I think sometimes we try and effort through things to keep ... I don't know what, I think I was like, "All right, I'm having a baby. We're giving birth." Its like, "No, you literally are going to ride the wave of this. You're not in control of this situation." I think that was a really powerful lesson for me, and I think in some ways that wisdom of the body takes over and it's humbling I think to be sat on your ass and told, "Sit back while we handle this."   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (54:42) Exactly. The clues for what your experience of menopause will be lay in what you just said. It'll be the next level version of that teaching.   Tahnee: (54:55) Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (54:56) About surrender and about trust.   Tahnee: (54:59) Control. Yeah, totally, which is like them of the last time anyway.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (55:03) Yeah. It's not usually a surprise to people what comes up for them in their menopause. It's the usual, yet it's the opportunity to really deal with it.   Tahnee: (55:18) Do you recommend women seek solace in circle with other women? I have a friend who works for us here at SuperFeast who I'm not completely sure how old she is, but I think she's around the 50 age, maybe like 40s. She is in a group with women of a similar age and they all discuss their experiences, and she started to have hot flushes and things. I know from her, just from speaking to her, that's been a really enriching experience and has given her a lot of confidence. Even, I'm her boss technically, so she communicates with me when she needs temperatures changed or to be in a different space.   Tahnee: (55:58) I think I've seen her really strengthen through that. Is that something that you recommend or are there other?   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (56:05) Totally. Women's circles, in whatever stage you are in your life, that's becoming a more and more common thing, but there's been a reclaiming to do that. I think that there's real benefit in women's circles with a variation of ages and that's basically what our four seasons journeys in the School of Shamanic Womancraft are circles of women from teenager even up to 65, 70, and there's an amazing teaching being in a circle with representatives from the whole cycle of our lives, and especially for the younger ones. Then the specific age circles, like as you're saying, are such opportunities to learn.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (56:59) Just thinking about circles of women who've got newborns, how much they learn from each other by just watching each other. Oh, I see she's fed off that boob and now she's going onto that one. Oh she's going back. They're watching each other, learn from each other, so we know that. By the time we get to the menopause experience, sharing our journeys with each other, just the very simple thing of realising, "Oh my god, I'm not alone," is so huge, and it normalises the experience that you're having. It makes your individual experience more real and accessible once you realise that everybody's going through something, and then individual stories are the things that are playing out with the actual sort of things going on in our relationships or with our body or whatever.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (57:52) It's so important to share with each other and to understand the process together, and the other really big part to remember is that each of us are simply and complicatedly the representative of our red thread or our mother line in our story of our lives. Each of us, when we come to these transformational rites of passage are doing our mother line story, so there'll be a theme or a pattern that's been going on in your mother line or your red thread forever, and it's not like it means that everybody has the same experience. You might not have the same sort of life story as your mother or your grandma, but there will be common themes in them.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (58:47) Helping ourselves understand what the story is in our mother line is so powerful because it's the healing opportunity that comes through these rites of passage where the pattern can stop and a new story can begin if somebody, and the person who's going through the rite of passage now decides, "I'm going to do the inner work so that the pattern stops repeating, the pattern of low self-esteem or depression or addiction or whatever it is. It's in their rites of passage where we can really do that big transformational work to not go down the well greased pathway of doom that's been playing out, I'm exaggerating, but in our red thread.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (59:44) Being together in circle and talking about all of these things, like what's arising and how am I experiencing that emotionally and physically and spiritually and stuff is really like the wonderful way and place that we all learn from each other. Women's circles are I think necessary all the time, and then especially during our big rites of passage.   Tahnee: (01:00:11) I mean I guess, I obviously want to be conscious of time and I want to wrap it up, but I'm thinking about communication skills. Is there any advice, because I think it's such a foreign, it's like foreign territory I suppose. A lot of women struggle to communicate their needs at that time. Is that where that sabbatical, even just a period of internal exploration I suppose is useful that you're able to stake a claim and ask for what you need? Is there any tips you can give in that space for people, because I think that's something I've observed in women I know going through that period of time that don't know how to communicate?   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:00:54) Yeah. Well for those for whom it's still in the distance, they can practise everything they need for the perimenopausal journey within their menstrual cycle. Perimenopause has been likened to the experience of the pre-menstrum. It's like during the say week three and week four of your menstrual cycle, everything that's not working in your life shows up.   Tahnee: (01:01:25) Yes, it does.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:01:27) You can let go of it with your blood.   Tahnee: (01:01:29) Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:01:30) If you don't let go of it, it just gets bigger, and that's an example of something getting swept under the carpet. For those for whom menopause is approaching but you're still menstruating, then pay attention to the second half of your menstrual cycle, so from ovulation or halfway if you're not ovulating anymore, so the week or two before the blood's ready to come, and if you're in perimenopause and the cycle's all over the place and you don't know when it's going to come, you're probably in that state all the time, so to pay attention to what you're feeling and what's arising and what you feel physically, what your emotions are telling you.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:02:11) I think before we can communicate with anybody about what we need and what we're feeling, we have to be able to communicate with ourselves. That's what the menstrual cycle gives us, like a bit of a feedback loop about what's working and what's not working. In the perimenopausal journey, the first person we have to listen to is ourselves. We can use mythopoetic language and archetypes to help us, and probably the easiest one in this situation would be to listen to the dark goddess within.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:02:45) The dark goddess is the aspect of ourselves who is telling us about all the things that need to change. If we could practise listening to her and not telling her to fuck off, really-   Tahnee: (01:03:07) I've been thinking about Kali this whole conversation. That ruthless cutting cords, cutting heads off.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:03:16) Exactly.   Tahnee: (01:03:16) Whatever needs to happen, yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:03:17) Exactly. If we can firstly establish this communication with ourselves about what needs to change, and this is the biggest trick. We've probably been ignoring these things forever, so here they come very big and loud, and they burst out. First of all, establish a communication with oneself within about the things that need to change, and then start sharing that with the people we're in intimate relationships with, like especially our partners or our children or our work friends and colleagues and circle sisters, et cetera.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:04:00) One of the things that menopause is quite famous for is losing your memory, and I've forgotten why I've started ranting about this, so what was your question?   Tahnee: (01:04:12) I think we were talking about communication.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:04:13) Oh right.   Tahnee: (01:04:19) It's interesting you touch on that because I've just been doing teacher training with a woman who is in her 70's. We were talking about memory and how sometimes ... Well I'm curious as to your thoughts on if you have any thoughts on why we lose our memory in menopause because we were talking about how sometimes with meditation and things, you lose your memory as well. Yeah, it's just it was an interesting conversation. Do you have any thoughts on that or is it just a phenomena that occurs?   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:04:50) Well it seems to be a phenomena that occurs, but there's reasons why and apparently it happens at every big rite of passage. The parts of your brain get used in different ways, not shut down, but other things are more important.   Tahnee: (01:05:11) Like baby brain and all that kind of stuff.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:05:13) Yeah, all of that kind of stuff. It's not a problem, it's an important change. I find that the things that I forget, like if I ... After a period of time, I remember them. It's still there, but the things that are on instant recall are different now because different things matter.   Tahnee: (01:05:34) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Different priorities, yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:05:36) Yeah, but it is a thing. It is definitely a thing, and thing, the word thing becomes such an important word in my vocabulary because it can mean so many different things. Like "That thing," or "Let's talk about the thing about ..." [inaudible 01:05:52]. [crosstalk 01:05:52].   Tahnee: (01:05:51) A multipurpose tool. Your Swiss Army knife of vocabulary.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:05:59) Yeah, exactly. Communication and education, prepare yourself for this. In the way that women do childbirth preparation and education, we need to do that for menopause too.   Tahnee: (01:06:14) Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:06:14) One of the ways I've seen that really work is within the four seasons journeys that I mentioned before, the School of Shamanic Womancraft. We have, as I mentioned, all variations of ages in the groups, and part of the yearlong training includes going to two of the Autumn Woman Harvest Queen workshops, which are the one-day workshops all about menopause. Mostly the women that come to those are women that are in it or have gone through it and want to understand what happened or women that for whom it's coming soon.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:06:50) With the four seasons journeys with the whole range of ages, there are many very young women that do these Autumn Woman Harvest Queen workshops, and they're learning about menopause like in many cases before they've even had children. It's so epic to see what these young women who learn about menopause, how their attitude to menopause changes in an instant, well not an instant, in a day, having learned about it and seeing that it's not this end story or this doom situation. There's a lot of amazing things that lay ahead.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:07:35) I've been able to see young women finish the day's workshop saying, "Wow, I'm really looking forward to menopause now." That's awesome.   Tahnee: (01:07:46) Yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:07:48) I think education, which involves communication obviously, is what's required for so many things. We could be having this same conversation about death. Preparation-   Tahnee: (01:08:00) Yeah. My favourite topics. Why aren't we preparing for death when we're young?   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:08:05) Exactly. In many traditional cultures, that's what everything's about. The least we can do is prepare for menopause.   Tahnee: (01:08:17) And then prepare for death. I know you're not able to actually run your in-person retreats at the moment, or sorry, workshops and things, which is a shame obviously, but that will shift as things do. You mentioned I think before when we were talking about having a course coming soon for women about the maga stage of life. Is that right?   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:08:40) Yeah. I've recently just put out a pregnancy eCourse. It's called Pregnancy: The Inner Journey eCourse. Now I'm doing an Autumn Woman Harvest Queen eCourse, so all about harvesting the transformational potential of menopause or something like that. I can't remember what the tagline is, but I'm gathering all the bits and pieces for that. I've got some beautiful artwork that's just been made of an Autumn Woman Harvest Queen and a poem that's just been written, and I'm pulling together all the information and the process for women to do in the comfort of their own home in their own time. I'm very excited to have that in the mix.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:09:34) I would imagine it'll probably take our southern winter for it to fully-   Tahnee: (01:09:40) Get together.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:09:41) ... yeah, and then be born in the spring, or sooner. We'll see. These things run on goddess time, they're not to be ... they've got their own gestation. Yeah, I'm very excited to be bringing that eCourse out soon, and eCourses, pandemic or not, are really definitely one of the things of the future as we-   Tahnee: (01:10:04) Yeah. That's such a powerful way I think for people to explore these topics without the geographical boundaries limiting them.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:10:12) Yeah. I mean obviously it's not the same as sitting in a circle with everybody.   Tahnee: (01:10:15) Right, yeah.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:10:16) But there's very good things from them as well.   Tahnee: (01:10:20) Well I think for a lot of people, it's a place to start or a way to explore, especially what we were talking about earlier where some people don't have the resources to travel or afford many, many courses. It's nice to offer things like that.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:10:38) Yeah.   Tahnee: (01:10:39) It's something we wrestle with a lot because we used to do a lot of in-person stuff, and now with our daughter and the business, it's tricky, so we've been offering stuff online. A part of my soul misses the contact and the humans, but then another part of me is like, well, we're affecting people all over the globe, which we wouldn't be able to do if we were doing a workshop in our backyard.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:11:01) Absolutely. That's the point, right? We need to be the women the earth needs now. That's those who are soft and strong and resilient and adaptable.   Tahnee: (01:11:16) Full of love.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:11:19) The pandemic has pulled the rug out from underneath us, so we need to adapt. In order to adapt, we need to be resilient. That's like another great lead-in to menopause. It's all about adapting and developing resilience, to be able to do that. The best thing anybody can go into menopause with is inner strength.   Tahnee: (01:11:48) Well that's a powerful note to end on. I wanted to say thank you so much for your time. I've really enjoyed speaking with you, and I'm super excited to get to do some of your workshops some day. I'll link to your website, Jane Hardwicke with an E, Collings.com, but I'll put all the show notes and everything in there. Is there anywhere else people can find you? I know you have social media.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:12:10) Yeah, Instagram and Facebook. Lots of stuff going on there. We've got a very big project going on at the moment with the pandemic, that's all about supporting mamatoto's through birthing crisis. Lots of social media action.   Tahnee: (01:12:27) Great. Well I'll link to those as well, and we will follow up with you when the maga course goes live.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:12:35) Awesome.   Tahnee: (01:12:35) We'll put that in the show notes as well for people who listen a bit later on. For everyone out there, please get on Jane's mailing list and get involved. This is important work for women and men. I'm really passionate about, my poor partner gets the down low on all this stuff, but he loves it and I think as we have a business full of women, it's so important to be conscious of their cycles, and we also have a daughter, so I think if anyone's listening and you have men folks that are interested, please pass on these messages to them or let them listen to the recordings.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:13:07) Thank you so much for inviting me.   Tahnee: (01:13:10) Oh, such a pleasure to speak with you Jane. Thank you so much.   Jane Hardwicke Collings: (01:13:11) Thank you.

Welcome to Season 3, Episode 1 Healing Before Your Birth with Jane Hardwicke Collings.She is a grandmother, midwife, teacher, writer and menstrual educator.And she was also a home birth midwife for 30 years.Jane gives workshops on the spiritual practice of menstruation and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause.She founded and runs The School of Shamanic Womancraft and has recently launched an e-course called Pregnancy - the Inner Journey and Healing from Traumatic Birth Experiences.She is a very dear friend and certainly one of the wise women in our birthing world.I think our conversation is perfect to include right next to our previous interview with She Births® mum Peta Kelly on scripting your birth.Peta and I talked about healing the mother line and generational trauma - but of course it is not such an easy thing to do.At She Births® we discuss our belief systems and what fills the subconscious mind. The latest neuroscience that confirms how we live is how we labour...and we know that traumas are passed down as well as fears and beliefs but untangling that ball of wool inside our heads and hearts is not always so easy.Jane has many insights that will allow you to understand and unravel perhaps the tangle of a traumatic birth, or the toxic belief systems that could be passed down via your family's ‘red thread'.Jane, like me, believes that giving birth is an opportunity to heal and the growth and transformation available to women is profound.To learn more about Jane's work go to www.janehardwickecollings.comI hope you enjoy and please leave us a review if you do. xxx

Jane Hardwicke Collings is a midwife, teacher, writer and menstrual educator. She gives workshops Internationally on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred and shamanic dimensions of pregnancy and birth and menopause. Jane founded and runs The School of Shamanic Woman-craft (formerly The School of Shamanic Midwifery), which prepares women to practice and teach the Women’s Mysteries and midwife the soul.In this episode we discuss:- Jane's experience of working as a midwife in and out of the medical system over 20 years- The three major rites of passage for women: menstruation, pregnancy and menopause- What mothers to be and newborn mums need to consider right now- How to handle peri and post menopause for self-healing- The problematic removal of pubic hairReferences:- Connect with Jane: https://janehardwickecollings.com/- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janehardwickecollings/?hl=en-- HER story audiobook download: https://www.appletreehouse.com.au/products/herstory-audiobook-with-free-e-book-downloadConnect with your Elevate hosts: Sarah Hopkins and Amanda Noga.Amanda's website: - www.yogaalchemy.com.auInstagram: - https://www.instagram.com/yoga_alchemy/Join the Paths to You Membership: - https://www.yogaalchemy.info/pty-pgSarah’s website: - https://health-wellbeing.com.au/Instagram: - https://www.instagram.com/shopkinshealth/Facebook - facebook.com/shopkinshealthwellbeingBookings (Consultation, Mentoring, Podcast): - https://calendly.com/shopkinshealth/

Jane Hardwicke Collings is fiercely rallying the birth community, as well as the community at large, to come together during this time of crisis to enact real and radical change in the care birthing women are receiving during the Coronavirus pandemic. Jane speaks of the impact the crisis is having on birthing women and mother-babies, and how we must come together now to provide better birthing options in response to what women are seeking at this time. Together with a group of women, Jane has founded Hygieia Health, a not for profit dedicated to making such changes. They recently surveyed over 800 women and found that 80% are re-assessing their birth and maternity care options in the middle of this pandemic. Jane shares how we as a community must come together to adapt to meet the needs of women and babies, and the impact that this pandemic will have if we don't - particularly on mothers mental health.Jane is the founder of The School of Shamanic Womancraft, has been a home birth midwife for over thirty years. and can be found at www.janehardwickecollings.comThis interview was recorded on Bundjalung country on Thursday 2 April, which must be acknowledged as much is changing daily during this pandemic. In adherence to social distancing, this interview was recorded virtually, and due to the current demand on these services, there are a few glitches and technical difficulties which we apologise for.Contact information for this episode:Mamatoto Support for Birth in Crisis Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/205614144006691/Hygieia Health: hygieia.health.2020@gmail.comJane Hardwicke Collings: jane@schoolofshamanicwomancraft.comKirilly Dawn: kirilly@pbbmedia.org

Jane Hardwicke Collings is fiercely rallying the birth community, as well as the community at large, to come together during this time of crisis to enact real and radical change in the care birthing women are receiving during the Coronavirus pandemic. Jane speaks of the impact the crisis is having on birthing women and mother-babies, and how we must come together now to provide better birthing options in response to what women are seeking at this time. Together with a group of women, Jane has founded Hygieia Health, a not for profit dedicated to making such changes. They recently surveyed over 800 women and found that 80% are re-assessing their birth and maternity care options in the middle of this pandemic. Jane shares how we as a community must come together to adapt to meet the needs of women and babies, and the impact that this pandemic will have if we don't - particularly on mothers mental health.Jane is the founder of The School of Shamanic Womancraft, has been a home birth midwife for over thirty years. and can be found at www.janehardwickecollings.comThis interview was recorded on Bundjalung country on Thursday 2 April, which must be acknowledged as much is changing daily during this pandemic. In adherence to social distancing, this interview was recorded virtually, and due to the current demand on these services, there are a few glitches and technical difficulties which we apologise for.Contact information for this episode:Mamatoto Support for Birth in Crisis Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/205614144006691/Hygieia Health: hygieia.health.2020@gmail.comJane Hardwicke Collings: jane@schoolofshamanicwomancraft.comKirilly Dawn: kirilly@pbbmedia.org

I've got a very special episode for you today. My friend Anita has a podcast called “The Midwitch” and she recently created a gorgeous and beyond powerful reading of a piece of writing titled "Herstory". The author is Jane Hardwicke Collings, who was a recent guest on this show discussing blood mysteries. When I heard this episode created by Anita, written by Jane, I knew it had to be shared here, far and wide, as I wish for every woman and man on this planet to hear this, take it in, listen to these words, to cry with us, and do better. With Anita and Jane's blessing, I am sharing with you, “Herstory”. You may want to be somewhere quiet and private, where you can really take this all in, it is sure to rock you.

I’ve got a very special episode for you today. My friend Anita has a podcast called “The Midwitch” and she recently created a gorgeous and beyond powerful reading of a piece of writing titled "Herstory". The author is Jane Hardwicke Collings, who was a recent guest on this show discussing blood mysteries. When I heard this episode created by Anita, written by Jane, I knew it had to be shared here, far and wide, as I wish for every woman and man on this planet to hear this, take it in, listen to these words, to cry with us, and do better. With Anita and Jane’s blessing, I am sharing with you, “Herstory”. You may want to be somewhere quiet and private, where you can really take this all in, it is sure to rock you. 

This week I sit down with elder witch Jane Hardwicke Collings, an Australian midwife. Jane's wise musings on our blood mysteries are guaranteed to blow your mind. If you want to reclaim your blood as power, this episode is for you.

This week I sit down with elder witch Jane Hardwicke Collings, an Australian midwife. Jane's wise musings on our blood mysteries are guaranteed to blow your mind. If you want to reclaim your blood as power, this episode is for you. 

You've heard the terms Patriarchy and Matriarchy - but do you truly know what it means? With permission from Jane Hardwicke Collings, I have read 'HERSTORY - WOMANIFESTO' for you to listen to. I believe when you hear this, it will awaken within you, what you may have thought you'd lost.I've read this piece more times that I can remember, but knowing that other women will hear this for the first time, made this experience different. I cried in parts, stumbled upon words, pronounced places and deities incorrectly and then struggled to keep reading when my eyes filled with tears. But I kept going, because it's the story medicine that matters. And I believe Jane's 'Herstory' is something every woman should know.

We’re about to have a conversation that is going to be oozing so much witchy woman warrior goddess queen shi$ that you might melt into a puddle of lava. Please get a change of panties, get your wand, get a journal because we have the phenomenal Jane Hardwicke Collings on the podcast today. Jane is a grandmother, midwife, teacher, writer and menstrual educator. She gives workshops in Australia and internationally on mother and daughter preparation for menstruation, the spiritual practice of menstruation, and the sacred dimensions of pregnancy, birth and menopause – a modern day Women’s Mysteries Teacher.   We get down and dirty on so many topics here and the work that Jane has done for woman throughout her career is just so impressive. You can easily forget that Jane grew up in a time when resistance to the kind of work she does was rampant, because she speaks in a way that makes you feel as if it was easy. She helped to pave the way for us to rise up and come into our power, and start the rebellion that we need to have in order to be empowered. We need to leave the earth better than we found it, and create a positive experience around the magic that our bodies have for those that come after. It’s an emergency.   To learn more about Jane, please head to her websites: www.janehardwickecollings.com https://www.patreon.com/JaneHardwickeCollings www.schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com  

In this episode of Authentic Sex Juliet invited midwife and women’s mysteries teacher, Jane Hardwick Collings on the show to talk about birth and breastfeeding as a sexual experience, rites of passage as women, how our menarch impacts our entire life, the shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, the importance of a babymoon, the role of the father in the first 12 months of a child’s life, the importance of healing from trauma, menopause as a rite of passage … and so much more!

Episode 22 is also available in video format. Head on over to my YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00eZ1R-fghE I’d say that my guest today is like birth worker royalty, except that royalty typically represents a patriarchal system she’d hate. Instead, I will introduce her as a wild, wilful, wise woman. A goddess. A guru, the divine Jane Hardwicke Collings. Often the best way to move on the path forward is to ask the wisdom of those coming back. Jane and I talk about the concept of “fish can’t see water”. The fish being birth workers in the patriarchal birthing system. Jane is a women’s mysteries teacher. She began work as a midwife in the early 80s. She has seen, heard, touched, smelled and tasted trauma in the birth space. Jane is a visionary, and I know that so many of the messages she shares today will feel like she is giving you a direct call to action. There’s no way forward for a midwife who wants to just be a good girl. Many of us are still operating from fear of persecution. Except instead of worrying about being burned and drowned we worry about AHPRA complaints. You are more powerful than you know. If we can rewild midwives to remember that they and the people they serve are powerful, then we will change the world. All resources mentioned are on my website http://doctorerin.com.au/podcast/ Jane’s website https://janehardwickecollings.com/

In this episode you’ll hear [ 01:05:17 ]:How did Jane went from the being a nurse and a part of the medical establishment to finding her tribe in the world of home births.How we live in the cult of the expert.Rite of Passages: what they are and why they are important.How what you were taught/learned around you menarche - plays out in every single part of your life.There's the same cycle everything.How important it is to take care of yourself during mensuration.The difference between normal mensuration and monthly bleeding on the pill.The Spiritual Practice of mensuration + moon blood prayers.How every pregnancy births something.What’s the “Mother” season of our lives.The red line is and why it’s so important it is to heal.Reclaiming your own birth story + menarche.Healing your inner Maiden/inner child.And so much more!LEARN MORE ABOUT THE GUEST:Jane’s Websitewww.moonsong.com.auwww.schoolofshamanicwomancraft.comwww.placentalremedy.comFacebookTwitterInstagramother links mentioned in the show:Positive Magic BookDr. Christiane NorthrupJeannine Parvati BakerRed School

What if we stopped resenting “that time of the month”, and started celebrating it? What if we quit dreading menopause, and started honouring the wisdom it brings? And what if we could shift our views on childbirth from being a clinical, painful experience, to a deeply empowering rite of passage, one that allows us to step into our true feminine power?Head to https://melissaambrosini.com/193 for full episode resources and more inspiring weekly episodes. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Jane Hardwicke Collings is direct, bold and some would say unrelenting in her passion and purpose to help women reclaim rites of passage, long denied to them by the patriarchy.  You will soon learn, as my guest on The Priestess Podcast today, that Jane is a no holds barred Priestess of powerful proportions, and her desire for women to feel more deeply connected to the cycle of life through birth, menarche, pregnancy, menopause, decay and death. Todays podcast is going to be of particular interest to you if you are a bleeding woman or one who is potentially going through the life stage of peri-menopause or menopause - or if you have ever birthed a baby. Such things are of course not synonymous with being or identifying as a woman, however for many of us they play a hugely significant role in our lives - and not always in a positive way. Jane's mission in life is to change this which she is absolutely doing through her worldwide events, workshops, books, teachings and the School of Shamanic Womancraft which she founded.

In this episode we explore Jane's journey into shamanic womancrafting, feminine mysteries and working with goddesses. Jane talked extensively about her leap into this work coming though her own journey as a midwife in Australia to her births that have weaved the way into her path and ultimately to the birth of The School of […] The post 2 – Growth- Jane Hardwicke Collings – Founder & Shamanic Midwife appeared first on School of Shamanic Womancraft.

Joey Remenyi from Seeking Balance International talks with Jane Hardwicke Collings from The School of Shamanicwomancraft about rites of passage, menopause, finding our voice and ageing powerfully. Learn about how rites of passage help to shape our self-perception and shape our culture. Learn about going through the process of rebirth and letting go of what doesn't serve anymore. Take a different look at neuroplasticity and changes within... Learn about Jane's work: https://schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com/about-the-school/ Learn about Joey's programs for vertigo and tinnitus: https://www.seekingbalance.com.au/our-programs/ Work with Joey 1:1 https://www.seekingbalance.com.au/11-sessions/

  I love transformation and this interview I was honoured to have Shamanic Craftswoman and former home birth midwife – Jane Hardwicke Collings. Transformative, empowering and inspiring. Jane values her truth and the truth in her story reflects on her teachings. Surrender and the red thread.. Personally, the word surrender is The post E17 – Shamanic Craftswoman Jane Hardwicke Collings Shares Her Transformative Births appeared first on The Circle of Birth.

Sally's interview with Angela Fitzgerald and local mum Kate about the power of sharing birth stories for healing from birth. Includes brief recording with Jane Hardwicke Collings about how our behavioural patterns influence our births and how questioning what role we may be playing in the outcome.Aired on 99.9 BayFM Byron Bay Australia on 18 July 2016.Produced and presented by Sally CusackCopyright PBB Media and Sally Cusack 2016www.pbbmedia.org

Sally's interview with Angela Fitzgerald and local mum Kate about the power of sharing birth stories for healing from birth. Includes brief recording with Jane Hardwicke Collings about how our behavioural patterns influence our births and how questioning what role we may be playing in the outcome.Aired on 99.9 BayFM Byron Bay Australia on 18 July 2016.Produced and presented by Sally CusackCopyright PBB Media and Sally Cusack 2016www.pbbmedia.org

Aired on 99.9 BayFM on 31 Aug 2015.Sally's update on campaign to reinstate birthing services at Murwillumbah Hospital and at 7:45 mins her interview with independent homebirth midwife and teacher of women's mysteries Jane Hardwicke Collings. Topics include how each rite of passage a woman goes through informs the next rite of passage, eg from menarche to birth to peri-menopause and menopause, benefits of preparing for each rite of passage to be open to the change and learn from each experience.More info on Jane: www.moonsong.com.auReferences: "The Wisdom of Menopause" by Dr Christiane Northrup, "Being Born" by Robyn Fernance and maieutic (Socratic) method of midwifery, Dr Sharon Maloney, Qld, re. connection between menstrual shame and difficulties in birth.Produced and presented by Sally Cusack.Copyright PBB Media and Sally Cusack 2015

Aired on 99.9 BayFM on 31 Aug 2015.Sally's update on campaign to reinstate birthing services at Murwillumbah Hospital and at 7:45 mins her interview with independent homebirth midwife and teacher of women's mysteries Jane Hardwicke Collings. Topics include how each rite of passage a woman goes through informs the next rite of passage, eg from menarche to birth to peri-menopause and menopause, benefits of preparing for each rite of passage to be open to the change and learn from each experience.More info on Jane: www.moonsong.com.auReferences: "The Wisdom of Menopause" by Dr Christiane Northrup, "Being Born" by Robyn Fernance and maieutic (Socratic) method of midwifery, Dr Sharon Maloney, Qld, re. connection between menstrual shame and difficulties in birth.Produced and presented by Sally Cusack.Copyright PBB Media and Sally Cusack 2015

Join 'She' and Jane Hardwicke Collings, creator of Moonsong. Jane is dedicated to empowering Mothers and Maidens to model a healthy way of being a woman in our current world system. Jane will share her wisdom and inspiration that can assist mothers and maidens to become informed. Embrace the seasons within each moon cycle. Her wealth of knowledge and experience flow effortlessly in this broadcast and will leave you wanting to learn more. About: Jane Harwicke Collings is an independent midwife from Australia, who has been attending homebirths since 1984. She is herself a homebirth mother of four, a grandmother and a teacher of the Women's Mysteries. She gives workshops, writes books and has founded The School of Shamanic Midwifery. Jane has trained in Shamanic practices with James M Harvey, aka Blackbear and has had many wonderful teachers including Midwife Maggie Lecky Thompson, Birthkeeper Jeannine Parvati Baker and Teacher and Author Cedar Barstow. "The stress sensitive barometer in women, the menstrual cycle is an exquisite system for sensing both physical and psychological well-being. Menstruation is an initiatory time, when women can potentially open to a highly charged altered state, giving them access to a singular kind of power. The power of self awareness, deep feeling, knowingness, intuition. A power that matures over time with each cycle." Alexandra Pope Jane Hardwicke Collings Moonsong Thirteen Moons Article: Understanding Your Cycles Music: Chandra by Michelle Dumond

On the Pregnancy Birth & Beyond Radio show aired live 8th of September 2014, from 99.9 Bay Fm in Byron Bay AU. We have an interview with Jane Hardwicke Collings. Here, Jane shares with us her wisdom on women's moon mysteries, birth as a rite of passage and so much more. Jane website: www.moonsong.com.auProduced and presented by Lara Martin Copyright 2014 PBB Media and Lara Martin www.pbbmedia.org

On the Pregnancy Birth & Beyond Radio show aired live 8th of September 2014, from 99.9 Bay Fm in Byron Bay AU. We have an interview with Jane Hardwicke Collings. Here, Jane shares with us her wisdom on women's moon mysteries, birth as a rite of passage and so much more. Jane website: www.moonsong.com.auProduced and presented by Lara Martin Copyright 2014 PBB Media and Lara Martin www.pbbmedia.org

Join'She' and Jane Hardwicke Collings, creator of Moonsong. Jane is dedicated to empowering woment to reclaime their power by reconnecting the with the women's mysteries. Jane will share her wisdom and inspiration that can be celebrated in each phase of life. Her wealth of knowledge and experience flow effortlessly in this broadcast and will leave you wanting to learn more. About:Jane Harwicke Collings is an independent midwife from Australia, who has been attending homebirths since 1984. She is herself a homebirth mother of four, a grandmother and a teacher of the Women's Mysteries. She gives workshops, writes books and has founded The School of Shamanic Midwifery. Jane has trained in Shamanic practices with James M Harvey, aka Blackbear and has had many wonderful teachers including Midwife Maggie Lecky Thompson, Birthkeeper Jeannine Parvati Baker and Teacher and Author Cedar Barstow.  Jane Hardwicke Collings Moonsong Thirteen Moons Products Article: Understanding Your Cycles Music: SriMati Mother of Mine Suzanne Toro