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Patrick shares audio of a lively debate between Senator Rand Paul and Dr. Anthony Fauci about those who are vaccinated and whether they should continue to wear masks. Steve – What are your thoughts on the Catholic faith being the one true Church. Proof of God’s Divinity? – Patrick recommends Fundamentals of the Faith by […] All show notes at The Patrick Madrid Show: March 19, 2021 – Hour 1 - This podcast produced by Relevant Radio

Jolie speaks with Dr. Steven Cady, the Director of the Institute for Organizational Effectiveness at BGSU, and Professor Charles Kanwischer, Director of the School of Art. They discuss collaborative leadership during times of crisis and the lessons we’ve learned about adaptive teaching, effective communication, and more.   Announcer: From Bowling Green State University and The Institute for the Study of Culture and Society, this is BG Ideas. Musical Intro: I'm going to show you this with a wonderful experiment. Jolie: Welcome to the BiG Ideas podcast, a collaboration between the Institute for the Study of Culture and Society and the School of Media and Communication at Bowling Green State University. I'm Jolie Sheffer, associate professor of English and American Culture Studies and Director of the ICS. Due to the ongoing pandemic, we're not in studio, but are recording remotely via phone and computer. As always, the opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of BGSU or its employees. Jolie: Bowling Green State University is located in the Great Black Swamp, long a meeting place of the Wyandotte, Shawnee, Lenape, Ottawa, Kickapoo, Fox, Pottawatomie, Erie, Miami, Peoria, Chippewa, and Seneca Indian tribes. We honor the rich history of this land and its indigenous inhabitants past and present. Jolie: Today, I have the pleasure of being joined by two guests, Dr. Steve Cady and Professor Charlie Kanwischer. Steve is the director of the Institute for Organizational Effectiveness at BGSU. He's world-renowned for his expertise in organizational behavior and development, specifically with the focus on whole system change. His current work involves collaborating with others to develop the best of both online and in-person learning environments. Jolie: Charlie is the director of the School of Art and a professor of drawing at BGSU. He's a six time recipient of an Ohio Arts Council Individual Artist Fellowship. In his administrative role, Charlie studies data to determine what students need to succeed in online learning environments. Steve and Charlie, thank you for joining me today to talk about leadership. Well, the COVID-19 pandemic has certainly exemplified the need for the kind of work you do to model collaborative leadership and meet the needs of students, faculty, and staff to deal with this swiftly changing academic landscape. Steve, could you start us off by talking about how your work was immediately impacted in March when the university moved to distance learning and what changes you made? Steve: So my work is on two levels, one is in the classroom with my students and then on the second level is my work with my colleagues, you two, and others at BGSU and beyond. On the first level, I immediately talked with my students and when I saw what was coming on the horizon, that we'd likely close down and we'd likely shut classes or go into a online setting, I talked with my students and I talked to them about various scenarios. I talked with him about scenarios in the class, "If we go online, this is what's going to happen. This is what we're going to meet online. This is how we're going to make it work. And this is how I'm going to handle the class, how we're going to handle your learning as well as your grading." And those kinds of things, and really made sure they had their questions answered. I also encouraged them to think about how they were going to handle it, what their scenarios were and what they were going to do. Steve: And I gave that advice to some other faculty that I was talking to, and they did that. And they said that it was pretty amazing that all of the sudden, when it happened, their students knew what to do, where to go. It's kind of like that emergency, like in a fire or whatever, where do we meet? Where do we regroup? That kind of thing. So that was number one, that was really important. Steve: And the second thing is I sent a note out to my friends and my colleagues and people and said, "Let's get together and support each other. What can we do to help each other? What can we learn from each other? How can we help each other and get better ideas on what to do in this moment?" What emerged from that was 170 people instantly showing up, signing up. We met on a Wednesday, over a hundred people showed up, I said, "You want to meet on Friday?" Another a hundred people showed up. "You want to meet on Saturday?" Another a hundred and something showed up. "Want to meet on Sunday?" Another a hundred and something showed up, and we were meeting almost every day, and then we started meeting weekly. And what came out of that is the importance of community and the importance of supporting each other. And the use of Zoom and the use of video conferencing to be able to see each other, while not ideal, it does work. Jolie: How about you, Charlie? How did that transition play out both in your role as a professor and as Director of the School of Art? Charlie: Well, it was on us so suddenly, that's what I remember. We were face to face one week... I guess we were reading news reports, we were sort of seeing, sensing this freight train coming at us, but then it was us in a rush. And I can specifically remember a faculty meeting, we called an emergency faculty meeting, when we understood that we would be closing down for what I remember was presented to us as two weeks. We were going to take a two week pause, we were going to suspend face to face classes for two weeks. And I remember really the sense of disbelief and the sense of trepidation that the faculty expressed in this meeting that we conducted to sort of figure out where we were going with the reaction to the initial shutdown. Charlie: And then it was an issue of, well, two weeks became a month, right? A month became the rest of the semester, the rest of the semester shaded into getting ready for the fall and knowing that we would have to prepare over the course of the summer. So a big part, I think, of my relationship with the faculty that I'm directing, the faculty that I'm working with, it was kind of leading them through the gradual amplification of the situation, sort of approaching it in stages. And I can remember faculty talking about, "What, if this happens, what if that happens? Have you read this article? It's telling us we can't engage in this set of behaviors anymore, we can't engage in these kinds of teaching practices anymore." And I remember going back again and again to the ideas, here's what we know now, here's what we can put in the firm column. This is something that we have a little bit of certainty about, it's not a whole lot, but we have to use that to begin to project into the future. Charlie: So what I found, I guess, was that leading the school at that moment was not just about the moment, it wasn't just about the situation we were in, in that particular moment. It was trying to create, I guess, the right kind of mental attitude, the right kind of response toward an inevitably shifting unfolding future, if that makes sense? Jolie: When you are dealing with a moment of such profound uncertainty and constant change, right? That the information, the decisions were not being made once and then decided for a semester, but that week by week, day by day, there might be changes needing to be made, that a big piece of what was effective was actually being really transparent with students and with colleagues about what is known, what isn't, and the fact that there are going to be lots of things the answer is, "I don't know, great question. Let's figure it out. Let's talk about it." Jolie: I think it's interesting that that's so important because the tendency, I think a lot of folks have during a time of crisis is to feel like what is demanded of them when in leadership positions is to be decisive and create structure and to be sort of rigid, and that, that is going to be more comforting to people. Could you talk, Steve, maybe a bit about what your own research interests in change management reveals about how people actually best respond to stress and change? Steve: Yeah, people support and defend that which they helped to create. And what's interesting is when we're in a learning environment, learning by its nature is about failure. It's about trying, taking risks in a safe space and learning at a deep level. And so when you look at collaboration and you look at leadership, we have spent how many centuries in rows and aisles in classrooms, where you sit and you're talked at, you raise your hand when you're talked to and you rewire the neural pathways in the brain to learn to be very much a linear, responsive thinker in which you don't think for yourself. Yet, the core value of education is we want to empower and inspire students to be leaders, to go out in the world and to be thinkers and to solve problems. Steve: So tell me one organization that you go in and sit in rows and aisles, when you go out and work? Show me one place where you're going to sit and be talked at and only speak and answer questions and regurgitate or repeat what you've been taught, so prove that you know what I'm talking about by repeating it back. Give me one example where that's life, it's not. Steve: And yet we spend from early childhood, all the way through college, and what's changing now, active learning, engaged learning is really... the flipped classroom, it's all coming back. But for years, and we're just now starting to get to it, for years that's all we've done. So now we create conditions where people go into the work, they sit and they say, "Tell me what to think. Tell me what to do. Where do I go? And what can I do?" And it's like automate. It's appalling to be honest with you. Steve: So change, if you want to teach people and you want to lead truly innovative, exciting places where people are joyful, wrestling with ideas, bringing their whole self into a situation. Bringing their mind, their body, their spirit and emotion, they don't just check their brain at the door and be told what to do, and don't share their emotions because it's not an appropriate and they can't be themselves, and they're taught that at school. And before you know what they go home and they have relationship problems because there's emotionally detachment from their kids, from their wives, from their husbands or partners, whatever it might be. And we have created an instructional education system that I think teaches us to be half-brained and half-human. And I think that we are now on the cusp, on the edge of a renaissance in terms of unleashing the whole human being into what is possible. And that is being advocated by all the learning and so forth. Steve: So collaborative leadership or leaders who are in environments and changing environments, they've been taught they have to have the answer because everybody keeps telling them to have the answer. It's not their fault and it's not.... And people might say, "Well, you should be transparent. You should be..." Well when they're transparent then the people that are followers take it out on them, passive aggressively, use the information against them, say that they're weak. It's just feeding into the same formula. Steve: Then there's a few brave, wise leaders, and it's beginning to emerge and it's coming out in the science and the research that the whole brain is necessary for great leadership. And you get leaders that then step out and step into that space. And they lead and they engage people and they let them fail and learn, they call it fail forward now, they call it the training, letting people fail forward into new learning and innovation. Bringing diverse groups together, it's easy to collaborate when you're with the homogeneous group, but you take a diverse group, it takes a lot longer to get to a place of functioning. Who wants to take the time to get there when you're in a hurry to show results. So leaders have got to be willing to step out and allow followers to push on them, to test them, to see if they really believe in this new kind of leadership that they're bringing forward. Charlie: Yeah, I think that's a really good answer, identifying creativity as an integral element in leadership. But from our point of view in the school of art, it kind of goes without saying, our issues are a little bit different. We are a collection of makers, studio practitioners, and our practices are based on trial and error and adaptivity and iterative, and we're used to work arounds and coming up with alternative solutions when one solution isn't working. We have that culture, we're in possession of a culture, in lots of ways has stood as well in this crisis, going back to the pasta makers and the glass pipes and all the at-home kits that faculty were putting together for students so they could work away from our studios. That creativity was in abundance. Charlie: Where maybe we face a little bit of a different problem than what Steve might be referring to or what might be going on in the more traditional academic areas on campus is our need is to harness that creativity in some way, to take all those people flying in different directions and help them establish a sense of collectivity, of collective purpose, of collective response to the situation that we were facing in the spring and that's ongoing. Charlie: Not that we want everyone to be on the same page, we embraced that variety is a strength, that diversity as a strength. That diversity not just of media and all the different things that we teach in the school, but diversity of intellectual approach, conceptual approach. It stood us very well but the difficulty as a leader, the challenge as a leader has been to arrive at consensus in the midst of all that diversity. Consensus on certain policies about how we're going to conduct our classes, consensus about the most effective modality for teaching a given discipline. It's been interesting. I've never believed more strongly that the culture that you move into the crisis with is the culture that sort of determines the response to the crisis. If we have a strong sense of community, if we have good communication, if we have a sense of transparency and fairness in the school moving into the difficult situation, then it seems like we're much better prepared for the unforeseen, the sorts of things that a crisis like this is going to throw at you. Jolie: I think one of the things you're both talking about is in some ways, and this has come up in other conversations this season in talking about the pandemic, is that it has created certain opportunities by throwing us off our well entrenched habits, right? And it's forced those in positions of authority, teachers in classrooms, directors of departments or schools to acknowledge and to have to model adaptability, creativity, a willingness to say, "Yep, I got that wrong. Okay, let's regroup." And then that becomes empowering for those, whether your students or it's the members of that department, school community to say, "Oh, I see my leader modeling this thing, okay, I can try and fail too." Because I think a lot of times what happens is we say we want our students to be creative, to take risks, but then we, in the position of authority, actually don't really demonstrate our own flexibility and willingness to take risks. It's like, "Well, I've had this assignment, I know how it works, I'm going to keep doing it this way." And this moment has made that really impossible in ways that are kind of freeing at times. Steve: I'll just say what's empowering in that is when a faculty member partners with the students and intentionally invites the students to partner with them in finding a new solution and saying, "Let's figure this out together." Students have been super helpful. Jolie: Yeah, they know things that we don't, right? And they often really do have an understanding of how to make better use of digital environments, of other ways of communicating and connecting. That can be really transformative. Steve: You start a class, you open a Zoom and you say, "Who can help me monitor the chat room?" And so if someone says, "Oh, I'll do that." And so they help you monitor the chat room and then I'll say, "Can you all summarize what's going on in the chat?" And then I say, "Can someone else do this here, and kind of help us pull up a screen and we'll create a collective document that we're going to work in." And someone will say, "I'll do that." And then so while they're doing that I'm focusing on this and we together are doing the class. Charlie: It's almost a cliche by now that we're not going back to the way things were before the pandemic, but we're also recognizing a lot of opportunity in that. The adaptations we've made, the flexibility we've demonstrated, the fact that we can offer content now in multiple modalities with different kinds of tools that faculty don't necessarily have to be present on campus, that they can be at home in a more flexible environment. Some of our faculty are actually in other countries, we have one faculty member teaching full-time from Canada right now, and another faculty member teaching full-time from Italy. They're both engaged in research projects at the same time that they're teaching and doing service. The kinds of technological bridges that we've been able to make, the kinds of technological structures we've been able to make are allowing a kind of flexibility and fluidity on the part of faculty that is unprecedented, we've never been in this kind of situation before. Charlie: We've also found that students who maybe are shy when they're in face-to-face critiques, unwilling to talk because one or two people are taking over conversations, we're finding it's much more democratic when they're online, that some of those shy students are speaking up. And actually some of the conversations that we're having around the work are more engaged, more robust than what we experienced in the face-to-face classrooms. Jolie: Yeah, there really is. In some ways there's a kind of leveling of some of those power dynamics in that move to the two dimensional screen where everyone could be a stakeholder and they can choose what kind of role that is, whether it's through the chat or speaking. I have a question for you, Charlie, about kind of your own work as an artist. How have you been impacted by this move and what is your working life like? Charlie: Like every artist I know, I've had shows canceled, opportunities that would have happened are not going to happen. In some cases canceled, in some cases postponed. So on a professional level, the pandemic's had a big impact just on the art world and the number of shows that are taking place, and the attendance at exhibitions, and galleries have had to close, museums have had to close. This sort of circulation that we take for granted in the art world has really been impaired, really been reduced. But when it comes to sort of daily working practice, and I try to work in my studio just about every day, when it comes to that, that has really been a source of strength through all of this. The idea that I'm going and doing this thing, making my work, even making progress in my work, feeling like the work has a different kind of meaning, a different kind of importance even due to the pandemic, due to the situation that's created by it, that's been really important. That's been really important. Charlie: That's been a source of, I don't know if it sounds like the right word, but solace or comfort, or maybe a better way to say it is centering. It's giving me a kind of a kind of groundedness that allows me to deal with the hyper fluidity of the situation. And I've talked to other studio artists, studio based artists who have said the same thing, that they've never felt more connected to their practice. I'm talking about the actual going to the studio, make the work, the actual execution of the work. They've never felt more connected to that than they have during this situation. Steve: And I would that for me, it's kind of interesting, I've yearned for that more because in my position and some of the things I've chosen to do, I have spent more time really busily holding the huddles and the other types of things. And I've noticed some of my friends have had that ability like you're talking about, and I've kind of yearned for that. I almost want to take some time to not be doing all these collaborative things. Charlie: That is your craft though, right Steve? You're a facilitator. You're a conversation sponsor. You're an expert at it, that's what you do. So in a way, you're exercising your craft, you're practicing your craft in a similar sort of way. Jolie: Well, and I think what that also points out too, is this moment makes in some ways more visible, all of the different human needs we have. This gets back to your point earlier, Steve, about kind of the whole student, right? We have to understand their material needs. We have to understand their spiritual needs. We have to understand all of that before we could really get to the intellectual. But it also, I think, for us as professionals, this has sort of made us realize, "Oh, I need more alone time." Or, "I desperately need more connection, that I'm feeling very alone and I need my colleagues. I need my relationships." And sort of forcing all of us to kind of identify, what are our individual needs for success? And if we recognize that, then we're in a better position to actually help our students and those we work with to similarly say, "Okay, what do you need to really feel successful, centered, balanced, able to do your best work?" Charlie: I guess what I would try to connect what we've just talked about to is the notion that, I see as one of my responsibilities is leader of the School of Art is to remind people, to urge people, to do everything I can to assist people in finding a sense of, I don't know if this is a word, but purposefulness, purpose in what they're doing. Because the pandemic has shifted, in all kinds of ways, not least of which is traditional outcomes for our work. For my studio practice, the places that I would normally be showing it. It's availability to people, and true for all the faculty. A lot of that has been taken away, and we don't know when it's going to come back and it's certainly not going to come back in the manner that it existed before. Charlie: But if you think about how that impacts students, we have students who are aspiring to be artists, students who are learning to be creators who want to succeed on a professional level. They're looking at the radical restructuring of the world that they thought they were entering, right? And it may even mean that some professional opportunities are closed off temporarily or shifted in different directions. So in the face of that sort of chaotic situation right now, the face of that unsettledness, it's more important than ever for students and faculty to remind themselves, what is this really about? What is this about at a deeper level? Why are you making work? Why are you putting so much effort into something that doesn't have the obvious outcomes anymore, and may not have the professional visibility that it had before? It really becomes about the work, I guess is what I'm saying. Jolie: About process, right? But it's about the process, right? Rather than the outcome. Jolie: What were you going to say, Steve? Steve: It's both in the sense that, there's a great book you may be aware of it's, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. Charlie: Mm-hmm (affirmative), of course. Steve: And in that he describes people in Nazi war camps, completely healthy people died. Yet there were these other folks in the camps that weren't healthy, that were injured, and they survived. And he was trying to figure out as a medical doctor, how to help more people survive. And he said, one of the telltale signs that people were about to die was that they gave away their cigarettes, which was their currency in the camp. And what he found was that the people that survived regardless of their physical condition were the ones that had purpose, they had some work to continue. In the arts, they had an artistic project or book to write or something to complete, or they had something that they were living for, that they still had... They were yearning for, something that they yearned to complete and finish. Steve: And it was people who had that. So switch it to this. So I, with my students always ask them, "What difference do you yearn to make in the world? What is your profession, your career, your job that you're going to go after that matters to you, where you're going to feel a sense of purpose? How is this class and how is what we're doing going to serve you in going for that?" And I find that in this situation, if I can keep my students focused on the prize on the thing that they yearn for, in the midst of this it helps them to deal with the pressures. And if they're in community sharing that, that's the other piece, it's this community of support is critical. If anything I learned in this is that we have got to create small communities of learning, communities of support, build them, create them, start them amongst the faculty, amongst the students, amongst students and faculty, administrators, but we need to be in communities supporting each other. Jolie: We're going to take a quick break. Thanks for listening to the BiG Ideas podcast. Musical Interlude: Question, answer, discussion. Announcer: If you are passionate about BiG Ideas, consider sponsoring this program. To have your name or organization mentioned here, please contact us at ics@bgsu.edu. Jolie: Hello, welcome back to the BiG Ideas podcast. Today I'm talking to Dr. Steve Cady and Professor Charlie Kanwischer about leadership during crisis, and what we've learned about online instruction and communication. We've been talking about the importance of communication and collaboration, what are some of the factors you see that impede true collaborative leadership at the university level or in large organizations and institutions? Charlie: Well, the first words that popped into my mind were bureaucracy and budget. I don't know, the interrelatedness of those two things. Sponsoring interdisciplinary work, sponsoring collaborative work, it can be expensive. Asking the university to allow two faculty members to teach a single class and not simply double up the class, there's a cost to that. And you have all these sort of administrative structures and disciplinary structures that they just function better when everybody stays between the lines. When you're trying to cross over, when you're trying to work in between, lots of times the bureaucracy doesn't know how to categorize it, it doesn't know how to evaluate it, it doesn't know how to measure the outcomes that emerged from it. Most of the structures we have at the university are set up for measuring discrete things, categorizable things, and anything that seems to want to resist that or move outside of that. It can be difficult to do that if not even opposed. Steve: Yeah, and I would offer... My favorite African proverb is, "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with others." And there's a really good book out that's called Going Fast and Slow, and it talks about the brain and the brain science of decision-making and how people think. And you got your executive function, and then you got your instinctive portion of your brain, instinctive function, and the fight and flight, and those kinds of things. They call it system one and system two in this particular book. Actually it's interesting, you got the left and the right and the front and the back of the brain. And if you think about it, the back is about instinct, the front is about thinking and reflection and so forth, and slowing down. The left side of the brain is about order, logic, and the right side is about creativity. Steve: And so now you've got all these different parts of the brain that are engaged, and the biggest impediment is that people sometimes don't want to engage the whole brain. So they don't want to take the time, they want to go fast and therefore people want to go alone. Yet in order to go fast and to go with others, but to go alone, the only way you can go alone with others fast is through dictation, to dictate, to direct, to force, to coerce, to make the decision and put in place the mechanisms to force people to do it. That's the only way you can do that. And then you can maybe get people to move fast because we're in that school system structure that we've trained people for many, many years to sit in rows and aisles, listen when talked to, and move quickly based on the edict that has been given out. There's a lot of other impediments, but I would describe that as a core impediment that gets in the way of true collaboration. Jolie: Well, and that's the thing, that there are certain things that are happening fast, right? That we may have to react quickly, but what you're suggesting is if we really want to make these changes transformative and meaningful, then you're going to have to be willing to slow down, to listen to other people, to take time, to try and adjust. And it's going to be less linear, and that may be in the short-term frustrating, but in the long-term, you'll get further with it. Steve: What does slowing down mean? I'm slowing down right now. I'm only taking five seconds. I take a breath, I've slowed down. I can slow down in a half hour. It doesn't mean slowing down for months. It's painful to slow down. So if I move and act quickly, it's like, "Let's get this over with, let's get this over with..." And you watch a brilliant athlete who can just move and you think, "How do they do that so elegantly?" So I think there's a notion that fast means everything's right now and slow means everything's way out there. But actually you can move too fast in one day or too fast in five seconds. It's about how we slow down our thinking, slow down our presence, presencing and noticing, and slowing ourselves down for that situation as appropriate and moving at a pace that still keeps us moving forward. Jolie: One of the things we've seen with the pandemic is that existing socioeconomic and racial disparities have gotten much worse, right? And this is on the economic front, on the health front and the infection rates, death rates and the economic impact. So it can be hard to sort of talk about those intersectional dimensions in the work that we do, but how do you address the ways in which not only are some communities more impacted, but also some have greater voice? How do you ensure everyone gets a say and is heard, and that decisions are made with them in mind and with their shaping that, again, getting back to the fast and slow, when not everyone even has equal access to the conversation? Charlie: Well, that's been a hard problem because you're caught in this bind. You don't want to overburden people with communication. You have to know when to communicate and when not to communicate, and you have to have some discernment about what's important enough to communicate and what might not be so important that you might just be bothering people with too much communication. So I view it as one of the most important characteristics you can have as a leader is that sense of proportionality, what I called discernment a moment ago. When is it necessary, and in the interest of the people you're communicating with, to communicate with them? And what can I take on? What can I relieve them of? What sort of burden can I take off of them? Charlie: I think it goes back to the notion too, that inside of a entity, an organization like a school of art, you have to have pretty good governance structures and that means we have an advisory council of the leadership in the school that meets with me every week. And then we have regular faculty meetings and the separate divisions in the side of the school are required to meet regularly. So that throughout these governance structures, people feel free to share and to speak up and not only do ideas flow up to me, but they also flow down from me to everybody in the school. Charlie: I feel pretty good about the way that we've communicated with faculty. Of course, it's students, I think, that are more difficult to communicate with in this situation. We don't have good communication channels in the school right now for getting information out to students collectively. At the height of the pandemic back in spring, I was making fairly regular, consistent messages to the students through email, and even through video, trying to let them know what was going on. That's tapered off though through the summer and into the fall, I was getting feedback from students that email isn't really an effective way to communicate. Some of those emails had to be long, almost by necessity. And that certainly tuned students out pretty quickly when they see a long email, they're already ready to delete it. I had some experiments with putting together a sort of student council, a representative group from across the school that I would meet with regularly, but that was kind of sidetracked by the pandemic and the inability to get together. Charlie: So that remains a challenge, how we communicate with students, how we let them know what's going on inside the school. And then more to the point that you we're making, how we recognize who in our communities, of both students, faculty, and staff too, who's vulnerable, who needs that extra communication, who needs that reach out, that extra level of connection? Maybe it's not going to everybody, it doesn't have to be a blanket email, but I'm finding ways to have regular meetings with people who I know are at some sort of risk. And I am, by the way... See, I am seeing that, I am seeing the stress take different kinds of forms for faculty and staff that are really having an impact on their health. Jolie: Yeah, and I think, by the same token, figuring out how to build processes, not only to communicate to those communities, but also for them to learn from them, right? So my final question for each of you is, what bit of advice, or what would you like to see around thinking differently about practices and principles of leadership learning from this moment? Charlie, what do you want to take away? What have you learned or what do you want others in leadership positions to learn from this moment about how to better lead? Charlie: It's a great question and a very hard question to answer. I guess I would begin with... What you want to recognize, I think in any communication that comes from leadership is a kind of empathy, a kind of acknowledgement of the difficulty of the situation that you're in. But it has to be empathy that's based on particularity, if it's so generalized and if it's repetitive, if it's always the same phrasing, if it's always the same points being made, if you're always using the same vocabulary, what that's signaling to me is that you're not thinking about the particular qualities of your audience, the particular lived experience of your audience. That might require extra communication or more customized communication, sort of what we were just talking about with Steve, but I think it actually goes in the opposite direction if you don't engage in that sort of thing. It becomes a kind of perception that the leadership that's communicating with you is, it was kind of communicating through a template. Charlie: We talked about industrial scaled education, industrial scaled content delivery, there's industrial scale communication as well. And I think when you're communicating to a diverse community, a very heterogeneous community, everybody doing something different, having different sorts of experiences, that kind of more homogenous communication is off-putting, it can actually do more damage, I think, than benefit. Jolie: What about for you, Steve? What would you like listeners to take away when they think about leadership roles and how to be more effective? Steve: I think believe in the power and the wisdom of the group, individually and collectively to trust and believe that people will make better decisions together than you can. If you think you can make a better decision than the group you've lost your group. Charlie: I think that's a nice, succinct way of really describing what I was trying to get at in my statement, Steve. I think out of empathy is an acknowledgement of solidarity and an acknowledgement that you're all in it together and that others may have ideas that benefit the collective. And if you imagine that you've got all the answers or that this is all on you to solve, you lose the group right away. Jolie: I think that's a great place to end. So thank you both so much for this conversation. Listeners can keep up with ICS by following us on Twitter and Instagram @icsbgsu and on our Facebook page. You can listen to BiG Ideas wherever you find your favorite podcasts, please subscribe and rate us on your preferred platform. Our producers are Chris Cavera and Marco Mendoza, with sound editing by Marco Mendoza. Research assistance was provided by Kari Hanlin. Musical Outro: Discussion.

Matty and Steve unveil the new name of the show than describe what it represents and what’s different. Next, the guys jump into current WVU sports headlines and Steve talks a little about his college football story. Then they take a look at the crazy prop bets for Super Bowl Sunday and make their own predictions. Finally, they give a sneak peek at who the first guest to the new show will be. - Basketball Team - Playing down to bad teams again - How big are NFL players? - What it would be like playing without Fans? - Women’s Team - Transfer Portal - Steves other positions and story at Maryland - Super Bowl - what it's like being a former NFL player - Just the Tip w/Steve - What to have at your Super Bowl feast - Super Bowl Prop Bets - Super bowl picks - First Guest

Franciscan Spirituality Center920 Market StreetLa Crosse, WI 54601608-791-5295Steve Spilde: Welcome. Today it is my pleasure to introduce Marcia Bentley. This is a pleasure for me because Marcia is a teammate. She serves as one of the leaders for the Spiritual Direction Preparation Program. Marcia is also a personal friend, and so it is a joy to talk to her. And beyond that, I’m excited because Marcia is one of the wisest and spiritually deep individuals that I know. She comes with a great deal of wisdom, and it’s a pleasure to make that wisdom available to a larger audience. Welcome, Marcia.Marcia Bentley: Thank you, Steve. What a wonderful introduction.Steve: As I often begin these conversations, I’m interested to hear you describe your family’s religious tradition.Marcia: Good place to start. My family had a very strong Catholic identity. Both of my parents were born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools, never dreamed of marrying anyone other than another Catholic. That was the tradition we were raised in, so we went to Catholic schools. My parents were both very involved with the church. My mom was an organist. Both of my parents taught religious education, so it was really the culture of our family, an identity – even to the point, for instance, Sundays we would get up, have a big breakfast, go to Mass together. Then, Sunday afternoons … Sunday was a family day. We would do thing together. My dad owned a business, so he was busy six days a week. But on Sunday, he would spend time with us, and [those were] some of my most fun memories of childhood of coming home from Mass and deciding what we would do for the day, whether it would be something as simple as going to visit my grandparents or whether we’d go to the swimming pool or maybe parks, or even just sit around the living room and divide up the newspaper, and whoever got the comics first was the winner. It was just a friendly and happy and very nurturing upbringing in the Catholic Church.Steve: It sounds very traditional, kind of like the image of what people would expect of a Catholic upbringing.Marcia: Absolutely. And we lived in a neighborhood where so many of our neighbors were Catholic too, that it was just kind of reinforced in an unspoken kind of way. We were Catholics. We had Catholic friends, Catholic neighbors. It’s really its own subculture.Steve: When you were young, how would you have described your image of God? There probably isn’t another word you would have used as a young person, but looking back at that age, how would you have described that image?Marcia: Very much how God was taught to us in church and in school from a child’s viewpoint that God was this all-powerful man who lived in heaven, which was above the clouds. We would look up when we prayed to God. But for me, I guess a difference that I hear compared sometimes to other people’s perspective is that God was very loving. God was powerful, but God was loving as well. I think that was an underlying factor for my whole life, that I just trusted in this loving, wonderful God who was always with us.Steve: What sort of situations would you feel particularly close to God at that stage in your life? Or do you have any particular memories of feeling particularly close to that sense of God?Marcia: Good question. I guess I just felt close to God all the time. It was just this constant feeling of trust and love. But when I was a young child, I don’t remember this, but I was told that I used to write letters to God and then hide them under my bed because I knew God could see everywhere. So God would read those letters under my bed and no one else would find those. But when you talk about a particular experience, when I was in high school, it was during Lent and there was a tradition in the church where, on Holy Thursday, families would sign up to come to church all night long for a particular hour – kind of like the Hour of Perpetual Adoration that the sisters do. I just remember this one particular time where my dad signed us up for like three in the morning or something like that. We were all roused out of our sleep and had to get dressed and go to church and keep Jesus company for an hour in the middle of the night. It was something new and kind of exciting, and you also had to make sure you didn’t fall asleep in church. I was the first one to walk outside after that experience. I walked out and it was still pretty cold weather, and it was just a clear night. After that wonderful feeling of peace of just being in silence and being close to Jesus, walking outside church and looking up at the sky and seeing these stars, I just had this moment of connection with everything. At the time, I don’t know that I called that “God,” but looking back on it, I would call that just a real experience of being one with God, which was awesome.

Franciscan Spirituality Center920 Market StreetLa Crosse, WI 54601Steve Spilde: Today it’s my pleasure to welcome Sister Rita Heires. Sister Rita is someone that I’ve had the honor to know for several years. One of the reasons why I am speaking with her today is that Sister Rita is the oldest Sister at Saint Rose Convent. I find Sister Rita to be an amazing person. I always enjoy my visits with her. One of the things I enjoy in visiting with her is her sense of perspective. She’s 93 years old. She was born in 1926. She has actual memories of The Great Depression. She has actual memories of World War Two, especially during this time of the pandemic when this is a very difficult time for folks. Sister Rita has seen a lot of life, and [she’s] seen similar experiences in the past. Without further adieu, I want to welcome Sister Rita Heires.Rita Heires: Hello.Steve: Sister Rita, tell me about your family. You grew up in rural Iowa on a farm. Tell me about your family, you siblings, and where you belonged in the family.Rita: I grew up just on the edge of the little town of Carroll, which at that time had about 5,000 members. My mother and father lived on this farm where we grew up, and the farm was actually my father’s farm. His dad built that house, and just as an interesting aside, it cost $1,600 to build that house. The lumber came from a little neighboring town called Maple River, and it was a lovely house. It was Florentine in style, and [it had] ornate kinds of trim on it. So this is where I grew up, yes.Steve: And that house was built in about what year?Rita: It would have to be about 1900, I would say. It’s around that time, yes. My family is composed of eight members, eight siblings, [and] my father and mother, Walter and Rose Heires. My mother’s name was Rose Brooke Heires. We had eight children. The oldest was Dorothy, who became Sister Mary Walter as a Franciscan Sister here at Saint Rose. The second was Helen, who became a Medical Mission Sister from the order in Philadelphia. The next [siblings] were three boys: Carl, Paul, and Donald. And then comes myself and two more boys, Alfred and John. I always call myself “the middle of five boys.”Steve: In your family there was eight children. Two of your sisters became religious Sisters, so you had that experience. Your family experienced The Great Depression. Your dad was trying to take care of eight kids in the midst of The Great Depression. Both your parents, how did they remain resilient in that very difficult time?Rita: Everybody was in the same circumstances, which I think gave a sense of support to each other. When the Stock Market broke in ’29, that was a huge loss, and it created a sense of stress on everybody. I think the comforting part was that everybody was in the same circumstances, so no one was poorer, perhaps. I’m sure there was a gradation of poverty, and there were people of great faith. Their faith was very strong to them, and Carroll is a very Catholic town. We always called it the “Sioux City of Iowa.” Sioux City was very, very, very Catholic, as well as Dubuque, [which is] even more Catholic. Iowa has pockets of Catholicity, and [there are] a lot of Methodists, et cetera. We made do with practically anything, and nothing. We always had enough food when we lived on the farm, so it was never a matter of starvation or any kind of poverty that way. But poor in many other ways, we all were. There was scarcity of clothing. We had what we needed, but [we] never let anything go to waste. We had handed down, handed down, handed down, as many families have done in all ages, I think. I would say that my father was always a very serious and burdened man concerned for how to make things mate. And I remember my mother telling me at one time that he said if he just had $1,000 in the bank he would feel so grateful and relieved. That’s not very much. But of course, money went a little farther in those days, too, than it does in this time. With the faith of God, and very faithful to each other, and to all of us, I think that was probably the guiding of it all. And good friends; he was a friend to everybody. That helped, too.Steve: Basically you’re saying part of what made The Great Depression so stressful was there was no margin, there was no savings. It really was getting through day by day, week by week, and trusting that you would have what you needed for today and you didn’t have energy to worry about tomorrow.Rita: That’s correct. And following the Depression years, that was mostly ’29, ’30, ’31. And just actually sort of coming out of the economic depression, in ’33 and ’34 in Carroll where we lived, we had a severe drought. I remember my brother telling me – he was old enough to pick corn in those days – the entire farm of corn yielded 90 bushels of corn. The whole farm. Now, of course the 160 acres would have small grain and hay and pastureland, so it wasn’t like it was a whole 160 acres of corn, but can you imagine? That would probably be three wagonloads.Steve: So as a result of that, survival [and] starvation was actually a concern for your family even though you lived on a farm – has the farm produced for us to survive?Rita: Right. But again, I would emphasize we had a big garden, and mother would can, can, can. We didn’t have lockers in those days [and] we didn’t have freezers, so there was nothing like that. But they would have hundreds of cans of fruits and vegetables and meat. We never felt starvation. [We had] simple foods and simple meals, and you ate what was on the table. That was for sure. It wasn’t a matter of, “I don’t like this” or anything like that. We were just happy to have whatever we had. It was a struggle, that’s for sure.Steve: Part of what I’m hearing you say is part of the challenge of that [was] there was the economic depression that started in 1929, and that had started to ease somewhat. But then you had the drought, which added a couple more years of very, very challenging times for people on the farm. And then about the time that started to ease up, then World War Two was looming and began, correct?Rita: That’s right. I would just add this cute little incident about the whole thing. My two sisters, Dorothy and Helen, were going to Saint Angela Academy, which was a tuition school. I know my tuition was $40 a year. I can’t remember if theirs was less than that or not. There wasn’t money to pay for that, but the Sisters were very happy to receive food because there were borders there also. We raised a lot of potatoes, and when the potatoes were harvested they would take a whole wagonload of potatoes down to the academy and store it there for the Sisters and borders to pay for their tuition. That was another way of bartering and getting the job done.Steve: You have memories of these times, which was very challenging. And you shared with me too not only raising food in the garden was the difference between survival and not surviving. And yet even then, at the peak of the drought, there was actually concern that the well was going dry. Your dad had to go to town and bring water from town so that the livestock would have water to drink. Rita: That’s correct.Steve: So it was kind of challenge upon challenge.Rita: Right.Steve: In what ways does that feel familiar now? And in what ways is it very different than what you’re experiencing right now?Rita: Now we have so many more resources and possibilities of things. I think the challenge is pretty much real regardless of whether you’re looking at what era of time it is. Expectations are higher today than they were then. I think calls upon the same kind of faith and trust, but I guess I would go back to expectations weren’t as great then as they are now. Even to be without air conditioning, we think we’re going to die, don’t we? I remember when my father was very sick. He also had blood poisoning at one time, and he was very sick at home. His brother had an electrical shock, and he brought out a fan probably 10 inches in diameter. And those are the ones we had blowing on him because he was so sick. We slept out on the lawn at night sometimes [because] it was so hot in the house. Expectations are just so different today in the sense we’ve become wimps from what we were then. I don’t decry that, but what a different era.Steve: What is your sense of how this will go going forward, this time of challenge?Rita: That’s the million-dollar question, isn’t it? It just seems like we have no end time to this, but it will end sometime, I’m sure. Science will come to the rescue again. What is the sense of how it’s going to go? I don’t have the faintest idea. It’s going to call upon the same kind of faith and trust on all of us, as it did for those folks. I guess I keep coming back to the expectations are just so different today than they were then. But we all want happiness and safety and comfort of some sort. I think that’s the million-dollar question.Steve: What I hear you saying a little bit [is] part of what will change is our expectations.Rita: That could very well be. I guess the one thing that bothers me or gives me concern within my heart is, are we up to the change of expectations? Or is it cause for suicidal kind of actions [because] it’s so bad? What’s the alternative? I pray for that a lot because I think people are going to feel so cornered. I suppose it depends on how deep individually our faith is, and our trust in a God who is kind and good and stands by us if we can truly – I’m speaking of all humanity – but all of us – yes, all of us – will be faith-filled enough to know that we are never alone. We don’t walk this way alone.Steve: Tell me more about that faith that both sustained you back in the 1930s, and the faith that sustained you now. Part of it is the sense that you are not alone –

Franciscan Spirituality Center920 Market StreetLa Crosse, WI 54601Steve Spilde: Welcome, everyone. Today it is my great honor to welcome John Heagle as my guest. I’ve had the privilege to know John for about 10 years. I first was acquainted to him … He is the presenter for our Spiritual Direction Preparation Program, our weekend entitled “Personal Growth in Faith Development.” John has had a great influence on me and my own personal growth and faith development, so it’s a real privilege for me to join John in conversation today. Thank you.John Heagle: It’s good to be with you – very much so. Thank you.Steve: Could you talk about how when you first met with the participants in the Spiritual Direction Preparation Program, how long ago that was, and what your first experience was.John: I couldn’t give you the exact time. I think I’ve been there four times now, and that would be every other year, so it would be about 10 years ago I think that we began that process – particularly because the topic was one that I felt so comfortable with.Steve: What are your credentials to talk about that? Where does that come from? I know you as having experience as a priest. I know you have experience as an instructor [and] as a therapist. Talk about your background.John: I guess I would like to start briefly [with] how I would frame my early life. I grew up with two main elements of energy. One is a very close farm Catholic family. My parents were survivors of The Great Depression, and they got married in 1934 and began farming together on the same land they lived on for 65 years, and that’s where I grew up. They had four boys; I’m the second oldest. There was a lot of boy energy in our house, a lot of physical interaction, a lot of testosterone energy that was there. We were never a perfect family, but [we were] a close family. What I remember in addition to my farm-close family is that I was born in the context of the beginning of the Second World War. Obviously I was too young … I was born in 1938. In November of that year, seven months after I was born is when the famous Kristallnacht happened in Germany when the Nazis began to persecute the Jewish people. I was too young to remember. I was even too young to remember much of Pearl Harbor; I was about three years old. All I remember is my parents being very upset. Only later did I come to understand that that was kind of a background setting that I didn’t become aware of until my adolescent years. I could remember the blackouts, the rationing of gasoline, butter, and sugar. Of course we made our own butter, so that wasn’t a problem with all that. But I just think that was a very important part.I also remember when you turned six, you officially started helping with the chores in the barn. Also, since mom only had four boys, she also taught us how to cook and clean, so we also learned that. We had to get up before going to school and throw out the sileage and feed the cows, and then go back in and take a bath and catch the school bus. There was this kind of sense of uber responsibility. I know I was raised as kind of a pleaser, to be “a good boy,” and to jump through all the right hoops – not just with my parents, but [also] in school with the sisters and with the whole church part of it, which was also very important. We went to church every Sunday and prayed every day. We had all our meals together because we were working in the field or doing the chores together, so it was that kind of setting, I think, that really helped shape me. I think that’s a very significant influence, anyway. And also, the war part of it got me back into social justice work.Steve: You grew up in northern Wisconsin, near Menomonie. You became a priest. Can you talk about that journey and at what point that idea entered your mind and kind of the path that led you in that direction?John: It’s interesting that probably the two sources of what I would call spirituality – in those days they didn’t speak of it that way – but the two sources of mystery I guess is the word I would use, or of religious presence, were the forest, farmland, the fields. And we had a creek at the bottom of our land, and a river within a quarter of a mile, Red Cedar River. The rivers and the forest and the fields were one real profound source for me of spontaneous nature mysticism. I had a real sense of union with mystery, with the holy. I wouldn’t have called that “God;” God was more in church. The second part of it was I became an alter server early. As soon as you receive your first communion in second grade you could become an alter server, but you had to memorize the Latin. In those days, the mass was in Latin. For some reason I was always a questor; I always wanted to know “why?” I remember the first response prayer before the alter was, “Ad Deum, qui laetificat juventutem meam.” It took me a long time in the second grade to memorize that. I went to the sister who was training us and I said, “What does that mean?” She said, “It doesn’t matter what it means. It’s from one of the Psalms. Just pray it.” But I was determined to find out what it meant, and when I found out it was Psalm 42 and it meant, “I will go to the altar of God, and I will do so with the joyfulness of youth.” I thought, “Holy mackerel, that’s great.” Being an altar server, there was something about church, the eucharist or the mass, that really was very sacred even though it was in another language and the ritual was outdated.I experienced another kind of mystery in the fields and the forest and the river. Probably going into high school and especially in college, the question became for me, “What’s the connection between creation and the holy in religion?” The message often was the world is a veil of tears, and it’s something that we’re here to find the escape route from. Yet I kept saying, “I don’t know what they mean by the world, but the world I know is something that I deeply love, and I find life in it. So I kept trying to resolve this paradox of, the world is a suspicious place or a dangerous place, and our purpose is to get to heaven. That was an ongoing struggle for me in college.Steve: What I’m hearing you say is, the struggle is to get to heaven to get out of this bad place. But you’re thinking of the forest where you grew up and thought, “This is not a bad place. I could spend my time here.”John: Precisely. In grade school, on the last day of school, we get off the school bus at the corner and take off our shoes, carry them home, and we never put our shoes on until it’s time to go back to school again in the fall. That’s how it was. I’ve come to understand now what Jesus means by, the world is not creation. He means the world of oppression and political mechanizations and the power of imperialism. That’s what he’s talking about. That’s the world in the Gospel of John when the Gospel of John says, “God so loved the world …” That’s not the systems of oppression. That’s creation. But I didn’t know that at the time. That was a struggle for me, and I think that the breaking point for me was in 1958 [when] I was sent to Catholic University for my further seminary training. I was studying philosophy at the time, and it was still kind of the old, worn-out scholastic philosophy of studying St. Thomas in Latin. I was getting more and more bored with it. I remember reading someplace this book [entitled] “The Human Phenomenon.” It was forbidden in the seminary library. One Saturday afternoon I took the bus downtown to Galleries Bookstore, and I purchased a copy of “The Human Phenomenon.” I brought it back under my coat, and that night I told my roommate, “I’m going to read this book after Grand Silence.” I was still reading it when the bell went off at 5:30 to get up. It was a breakthrough because Teilhard [author Pierre Teilhard de Chardin] basically resolved that issue of, there’s not the world over here and the holy or the divine over there. They’re both together through the process of evolving creation and evolving human beings. It was like a light went on for me. It was at the same time a great relief because I was saying, ‘Maybe I’m in the wrong place and I shouldn’t even be in the seminary because I don’t believe this stuff.’ ”

What Is The Believers Initiative? The weekly conversation with Shaun & Steve *What should we do? *When should we do it? *What is the foundation of what we do? Shaun Smit and Steve Bisset share their conversation every week with you, raw and unedited, sharing insights, thoughts, and realities of ministry leadership, discipleship, and equipping for leaders and believers alike. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/k-l-e/support

Who would you rather have? (Kicker Edition)Today Steve and Tim discuss Kickers. Who are you taking Steve? What is Dynasty Owner? Dynasty Owner is not your average fantasy football. You may have your DraftKings and Fanduels of the world but we are year-round and put you right in the seat of the Owner, Coach, and GM. Fantasy footballers all over have been wanting a game like this and you may have even heard our name from Christopher Harris or even the Dynasty Nerds podcast.We use real NFL contracts and salaries in our game so when something changes here in the real world it affects your team for the year. With a challenge of the salary cap and keeping your team under it, you get the feeling of what it's like to run a business and see your team get rewarded when they win.Learn more today at www.dynastyowner.com and come see what we are all about.-------------------------------------------------------Connect with Dynasty Owner:Visit us on the web -- https://www.dynastyowner.comFollow us on Twitter -- @Dynasty_OwnerFollow on Facebook - www.facebook.com/DynastyOwnerFantasySports

Who would you rather have? (Non-Millionaire v Multi-Millionaire)Today Steve and Tim discuss Non-Millionaire v Multi-Millionaire comparisons. Who are you taking Steve? What is Dynasty Owner? Dynasty Owner is not your average fantasy football. You may have your DraftKings and Fanduels of the world but we are year-round and put you right in the seat of the Owner, Coach, and GM. Fantasy footballers all over have been wanting a game like this and you may have even heard our name from Christopher Harris or even the Dynasty Nerds podcast.We use real NFL contracts and salaries in our game so when something changes here in the real world it affects your team for the year. With a challenge of the salary cap and keeping your team under it, you get the feeling of what it's like to run a business and see your team get rewarded when they win.Learn more today at www.dynastyowner.com and come see what we are all about.-------------------------------------------------------Connect with Dynasty Owner:Visit us on the web -- https://www.dynastyowner.comFollow us on Twitter -- @Dynasty_OwnerFollow on Facebook - www.facebook.com/DynastyOwnerFantasySports

How do you value rookie players in Dynasty Owner? Today Steve and Tim discuss rookies vs 2nd yr veterans. Who you taken Steve? What is Dynasty Owner? Dynasty Owner is not your average fantasy football. You may have your DraftKings and Fanduels of the world but we are year-round and put you right in the seat of the Owner, Coach, and GM. Fantasy footballers all over have been wanting a game like this and you may have even heard our name from Christopher Harris or even the Dynasty Nerds podcast.We use real NFL contracts and salaries in our game so when something changes here in the real world it affects your team for the year. With a challenge of the salary cap and keeping your team under it, you get the feeling of what it's like to run a business and see your team get rewarded when they win.Learn more today at www.dynastyowner.com and come see what we are all about.-------------------------------------------------------Connect with Dynasty Owner:Visit us on the web -- https://www.dynastyowner.comFollow us on Twitter -- @Dynasty_OwnerFollow on Facebook - www.facebook.com/DynastyOwnerFantasySports

Real Definition of Homestead (LA 1299) Transcript: Steve: Steve and Jill here. Jill: Hello. Steve: Welcome to the Land Academy Show, entertaining land, investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill: And I'm Jill DeWitt broadcasting from sunny, Southern California. Steve: Today Jill and I talk about, well, really, I talk about, the real definition of the word homestead. Jill: Why is it only you? This came up because of a call that I had it. And this guy was nutty. Well, I'll explain it. But this nutty seller was explaining to me how he got this property. He's the first one to get the property. It was never properly, what was the word he said, what did he call it? Divided. It wasn't subdivided. He said staked out or something like that. And I'm going along like a homestead and he's telling me no. So we talked about it. Now we're going to try to clear this up. Steve: That's interesting. Because I chose this topic because I was reading a stream, an extremely lengthy stream in our Facebook. Jill: So they're talking about it too. Steve: Yeah. It's all over the internet man. And it's so wrong. I have to be real straight here. There's some really bad information about the word homestead. And I know why, because homestead means four or five things to different people. So I'm going to try to clear it up. Jill: It's funny. Steve: And not in a boring way. Jill: [inaudible 00:01:22]. By the way. Steve: That's okay. Jill: Okay, good. I got to say usually we're recording this a few days before. Now pretty much today we're recording on the day. This tells you a little bit about our weekend. Steve: We were late because of our social life interfered with our professional life recently. Jill: You should not let that happen. And we did, "Well, we can record tomorrow." I'll just record tomorrow, or we can record tomorrow. And then here, we're like, Oh, you can't. We have no more tomorrows. Steve: Remember back when we first started out, not with the Atlanta Academy, but just working together. And we were there every day and working hard and all into it. And now it's just a lapse [crosstalk 00:00:02:03]. Jill: [crosstalk 00:02:06] I guess so. Don't do that. Steve: I hear radio radio switches clicking off all over the place right now. Before we get into it, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free. Jill: Okay. So Austin wrote, "Hello. After a somewhat successful first round mailer, I have a handful of recorded deeds from the County," as you should. This is great. "I haven't sold anything so far. I focus in Northern Arizona and have five acre plus desert properties that I'm hoping to sell in the 2,500 to $3,000 range. For this price point, is it appropriate to hire a photo company such as WeGoLook. There's others like that too, to shoot photos and or video, or should I use stock photos from the region and those will be adequate?" Thanks, Austin. And we put those in there for [inaudible 00:02:59] people. That's one of the things- Steve: There's 10,000 pictures in the original program of Northern Arizona. Jill: That we shared. Steve: [crosstalk 00:03:08] 10,000, maybe 8,000. Jill: When I say we, I mean, somebody else that worked for us or you. Steve: What do you think about this topic? Jill: I would, you know what? I think that back in the day, it was hard to get people and hard to tell them where to go. And for them to find properties, it was difficult for us alone telling photographer. But nowadays you could get a guy for 50 to 75 bucks off these companies or Craigslist, and you can give them GPS coordinates that they can pop in their phone and they can drive right there. So I think not hiring it I think there's no reason nowadays to not hire a photographer, to go out there, hopefully see a couple... And you've got how many properties? Steve: A handful. Jill: Is there a way... Do all of them at the same time. Have your photographer pick the first sunny day w...

Cooper had the chance to virtually chat with videographer, filmaker, and producer Jon Kilmer, the creator and Co-Star of "This is Mike Stud". Jon has quite the list of accomplishments; He has worked with artists like Mike Stud, Kendrick Lamar, and Steve Aoki. He recently produced the comedy movie/film "The Primrose", and directed several music videos for Mike Stud (Young & Dumb). Jon also is the host of the popular "YNK Podcast" (Ya Neva Know Podcast), where he and his friends discuss a variety of topics with other well-know athletes and celebrities. |BackgroundFrom Boston, go-to guy for Mike Stud. Worked with big names (K Dot, Steve Aoki, to just name a few)Discuss capturing the Mikes shows, the journey working with friends and growing a community/brandHighlightsProducer and honored w/ Best Feature Film Award for Comedy Movie “The Primrose” in 2018Director/Composer of “Young & Dumb” video short for Mike Stud in 2015“This is Mike Stud” TV Series Documentary IntroFor our listeners tuning in that may not know who you are, give us a brief 3-4 min intro about yourself:HometownWhat were you like as a kid growing up?Questions“This is Mike Stud”Documentary seriesAre there any specific + epic moments you’ve been a part of during the show that you can share with our listeners? (places you’ve gone, people you’ve met, crazy stories, etc.)Touring Not a lot of people know this but I know that before show you intro with an electric guitar and play the national anthem (some Jimi Hendrix action)What do you prefer filming on?Preferred camera brand?Shooting your movie “Primrose”Walk us through the movie, explain the process, the struggles producing and writing the filmHow did you raise funds for the movie?What’s the message behind the film?Jumped on tour with K Dot & Steve Aoki, talk to us about your experience working with these artists!!!Production tour busWhat is like working with Steve?What did you learn from him?Same questions about Kendrick COVIDHow are you adjusting to the “New Norm”?

Scarf sits down with friend and content creator Steve from Checkpoint Gaming to talk about: 00:00 Who is Steve & What is Checkpoint 03:19 Dealing with the state of Youtube 11:11 PUBG, Ultimate Battle, & Atomega 23:26 PUBG's Monetization & Bots 26:14 Scarf's Gordon Ramsay moment 33:47 PUBG modes in Fortnite & bad impressions 42:07 Scarf is buying a Switch, he's excited 1:07:58 The Iphone Xbox X and Twitch Con 1:12:59 Advice to those Starting out   Get more from Steve https://twitter.com/realcheckpoint http://youtube.com/officialcheckpoint http://twitch.tv/officialcheckpoint   Outro Music by Edge   Support us on Patreon at http://www.patreon.com/LostScarf Check out our Discord room at http://bit.ly/ScarfCord Specific Talk to Scarf Room at https://discord.gg/4rbjXJ6   Scarfplays Twitter (Channel): https://twitter.com/ScarfPlays LostScarf Twitter (Personal): https://twitter.com/LostScarf Jynx Twitter (Editor): https://twitter.com/GameJynx

Franciscan Spirituality Center920 Market StreetLa Crosse, WI 54601Steve Spilde: My name is Steve Spilde. Today I’m here with Vince Hatt, the longtime director of the Franciscan Spirituality Center. Tell me about your work at the Spirituality Center, and maybe specifically your understanding of what the Spirituality Center is all about.Vince Hatt: I started out as basically the Spiritual Director. From there I eventually became Director of the Spiritual Director and Preparation Program, and I eventually became Director. My purpose, I think – one of the main ones, anyway – was to provide a safe place for people to explore the big questions of life. It gave me the most joy when I saw people ask themselves the hard questions and go deeper.Steve: Tell me how you came to the Franciscan Spirituality Center.Vince: I was a priest in Iowa for 27 years. I resigned in 1993. I called Mary Katherine to basically cancel during a retreat because I was no longer going to be a priest, and she said, ‘Would you like to work here?’ I said, ‘Sure.’ She said, ‘Well, that’s good.’ Then I said, ‘How do I apply?’ She said, ‘You’re the only applicant.’ So I resigned on August 15th, 1993 and started here September 7th, 1993. I worked here until I retired.Steve: We’re going to circle back to that, how you ended up here and how you resigned from the priesthood. But I want to find out how you entered the priesthood in the first place. Let’s kind of rewind the tape to the beginning of your life. Tell me who Vince was as a young boy, and how you ended up becoming a priest.Vince: As a young boy, my purpose was to be successful. I not only wanted to be a good student, I wanted to be valedictorian of the class.Steve: Did you succeed?Vince: Yes, of course. When I put my energy into something, it was focused. Then I not only wanted to be the best long-distance runner my school, I wanted to be the best in the conference. My focus was always on succeeding. Another question that arose pretty early is, what is my purpose? I’m a goal-setter, so what’s my purpose? On October 4th, 1957, I was on my way to a cross country meet in Ames, Iowa, and [there] was breaking news. They didn’t use that term as frequently as they do now, but the breaking news was that the Russians had sent up the first space satellite, Sputnik, and then right away I knew my purpose was to catch up with the Russians in space. Because of my record, I was offered a full-ride scholarship to Notre Dame in physics and math. I thought that was my purpose. I didn’t particularly enjoy it, but you know, what am I supposed to do? Well, that was the environment, so I did that until the third year. I was taking a course called “Quantum Mechanics,” and about halfway through the course I thought, ‘You know, maybe someone else can help the United States catch up with the Russians in space.’ I pulled out of that, and then the last year at Notre Dame I was thinking about, what was my purpose? I decided the church needs priests [and] somebody’s got to do it. I was always kind of the guy [who said], ‘Somebody’s got to do it. I would.’ That had good results in some areas, like when I was in high school [and] I got elected to any position, usually I didn’t volunteer. They would come to me and I would say, ‘Somebody’s got to do it.’ That was kind of the person I was, and that’s how I ended up a priest.Steve: What was your experience in the church when you were young?Vince: When I was young, I grew up in an Italian family and the church was very important. I would go to church all the time with my grandparents and my parents. I think my first purpose in the church was to get to heaven. That was my spirituality. That worked pretty well until I hit adolescence. Then I thought, ‘This is not so easy.’ Pretty much the whole thing was getting to heaven.Steve: What was your understanding of how you would get to heaven from that age?Vince: Keep all the rules – excel in them, of course. I was going to be the best rule keeper. I’ve always had an intense desire to succeed. That was my drivenness.Steve: What was your image of God at, say, 15 years?Vince: God sets the rules. If I keep them, I get eternal bliss. That was the deal. I was very practical. It might be a struggle, but life only lasts so many years and heaven is forever.Steve: As a young man becoming a priest, at that point had your view of God changed?Vince: Not a whole lot. I think I was evolving into it’s more a matter of loving than keeping the rules. In fact, the basic rule was loving God above all, and your neighbor as yourself. It kind of took the emphasis off of keeping the rules to being a loving person.Steve: How was it for you as a priest.Vince: It had its plusses and minuses. The plusses included the opportunity to be part of people’s lives at critical junctures in their lives, and they were forever grateful. If you were there when a parent died, the kids would never forget it. They would bring it up years later. The hard part was it was very isolating. I would be in a parish for six years, and then I would rip it all up and end those relationships and go start over in another place. It was exciting at first – a new challenge – but then after 20 years it was like, ‘Man, this is lonely.’ That’s when I started to say, ‘Maybe I have some other options.’ I didn’t like being the one who had, in middle management, had to deliver the message to the folks about stuff I really wasn’t that enthused about. It took me a lot longer to leave than to enter. I decided to be a priest in a couple of years. The process of leaving took about 10 years from the first rumblings to finally saying I am leaving.Steve: Was your understanding of God shifting during that time of rumbling?Vince: Yeah. I came to the conclusion that my lifetime commitment was to God as I understood God [and] not to the church. So I could leave the priesthood and still be faithful to God. That was the big struggle originally. I was in the era when priests were leaving. The ones who remained had more to do. I had certain friendships that were originating through my priesthood. It was renegotiating important relationships as a lay person. It was hard, but finally, after three years of depression, I thought I had to do it. I would not be at peace until I did.Steve: What was your understanding of spirituality at that time if someone had asked you, what is spirituality? What would have been your answer?Vince: Spirituality was tied up with your relationship with God at that time. Now I would say spirituality is the lived experience of your values. So in that format, everyone has a spirituality. If the lived experience of your values is to make a lot of money, that’s your spirituality. Everybody has a spirituality. Now, the people I saw here and other places, that view of spirituality was bankrupt. There are bigger things, bigger questions, like, who am I? What is my purpose? How am I to live? Those are the big questions. When I was younger, the emphasis was on, what is my purpose? Now, as it evolved, the question more was, who am I – really? That became a lot more important because if I knew who I was, I presumed the purpose would become clearer at how I was to live became clearer.Steve: If you had to rewind the tape of your life, what decisions might you have done differently or perhaps done sooner?Vince: I believe as Richard Rohr entitled the book: Everything Belongs. It’s all part of the story. Just as Jacob wrestled with God all night and ended up with a damaged hip, in the struggle I’ve learned a lot about me. So any of the struggles belong, and they took as long as they took. Jacob wrestled with God because he sought a blessing. He wanted to be blessed. I think my wrestling with God meaning purpose needed to happen for me to be open to a blessing. It all belongs. I rewind my life, and I don’t say, ‘I wish I’d made another decision.’ I rewind my life and say, ‘Isn’t this interesting? This is really fascinating. What a story. I couldn’t have written a plot if I tried.’ And actually, I tried. I tried to write the plot. I was doing an RCA retreat. These are people interested in becoming a Catholic. I had 16 people there. Most of them were UW-L students. I said, ‘When I went off to Notre Dame to catch up with the Russians in space at your age, if you would have told me at the age of 80 you’ll be leading a retreat for college people who are considering becoming Christian or Catholic, I’d have said, what are you smoking?’ That’s what I would have said. I didn’t plan it, but Saturday I felt like, I’m just where I belong. This is where I belong, and there’s no better feeling than that because at different times in life I would sit in my chair and say, ‘I don’t know where I belong, but it’s not here.’Steve: At this point in your life, how would you describe God?Vince: God is a sacred presence that’s always there. I cannot say specifically a description of God because that would be to know the essence of God, which is way above my pay grade. But God, at the deepest part of myself, is there. And that would be my best guess right now. When people ask me questions, my usual statement or assumption is, what is my best guess right now?Steve: A couple of things I want to ask you. One, you have a great story about sorting through the voices in your head, particularly the voice of anxiety, which is a voice you’re well familiar with.Vince: I believe holiness is wholeness. You need to love every part of yourself, or else you cut it off and you’re not whole. You’re fragmented and less than you are. I named that part of me, that drive for success, ‘Successful Sam.’ I’m the chairman of a board of several people. There is ‘Needless Ned.’ There’s ‘Special Whatever.’ When I come to a decision now that’s kind of confusing, I have to say to ‘Success

Where is Steve? What have they done with him ? Who knows but listen to Gary and Roland talk beer   

I'm very excited to be here today and introduce a guest and one of my good friends.   We're actually partnering in a product that you might not know about.   I thought it'd be cool to bring the genius behind the product itself on the show and tell you guys about it and why it's been so awesome.   My guest today is one of the most sought after Chatbot builders that I know of.   Even amongst the ClickFunnels inner circle, Nico is one that is consistently mentioned and pointed back to.   Being able to have him on the show is a real treat.   Without further ado, everybody please welcome Mister Nico Moreno.   CHATBOTS FOR MLM WITH NICO MORENO   How are you doing, man?   Nico Moreno: Oh, I'm doing great, Steve. Thanks so much for having me.   It's a pleasure to be here. I’m really honored and excited.   Steve Larsen: This is awesome. Thanks for taking the time.   Nico Moreno: Yeah, absolutely.   Steve: I can't remember how it was we got connected…   Nico Moreno: I remember, I think…   Steve: Do you? Okay. You can tell the story. [chuckle]   Nico Moreno: Well, I remember the first time we talked... The first time we spoke in person.   It was at Funnel Hacking Live two years ago in Dallas.   Steve: Yeah.   Nico Moreno: I signed up for the FHAT event and I was asking you about it.   I was like, "I don't know if this is right for me."   And you were like, "Oh well, here's all the things to consider."   That was the first time we spoke in person. Other than that, I'm not sure if we were connected before or after on Facebook…   Steve: Yeah. I started thinking about ways I could use Chatbots for MLM and webinars… Things like that on the internet, and more things in the MLM space.   I can't even remember who it was, but somebody in Russel's inner circle that was like, "Oh my gosh, you have got to see this guy. His name's Nico."   And I started looking through your stuff, and I was like, "This guy is as psycho about Chatbots for MLM as I am about funnels, and I love that."   I was like, "I need to get connected with this 'cause it's so crazy."   I don't remember how it happened…. But I reached out and you said YES!   THE MOST SOUGHT AFTER CHATBOTS FOR MLM   For anyone who doesn't know… Nico is one of the MOST sought after Chatbot builders.   He created really cool Chatbot sequences for the MLM space, specifically for our purposes.   If somebody wants a sample of your product or they want to get on the phone with you, it guides them.   It lets them control the conversation rather than you trying to sell them.   How did you get started building chatbots?   Nico Moreno: It's an interesting story…   One-and-a-half - two years ago I saw that it was possible to add a Messenger Chatbot to a Facebook ad and I was like, "Oh, that's new. Okay, I'll just try it out."   So I tried it out and it worked pretty well for an ad. I got some decent results.   Then I started playing around with this software, ManyChat, which is the software that I use to build Chatbots for MLM. From there, I was like, "Hey, you know what? These worked pretty well for my ads, I wonder if there's a way to get people to sign up for my webinar."   I've had a bunch of different Facebook groups throughout the years. But at that point, I had a decent sized Facebook group. I was like, "Hey, what if I invited people to a webinar but I had them register by clicking on my Chatbot link instead of with email?"   TESTING CHATBOTS FOR A WEBINAR   So I tested that… And it was partly because I was lazy.   I didn't wanna set up the email sequence and I also wanted to experiment and see if it worked.   So I got my Chatbot link all ready and I was like, "Hey guys, I'm doing a live webinar this Thursday. If you want to attend, click on the Chatbot link and get signed up."   The results were INCREDIBLE.   I can't remember the exact number… But I wanna say I had a 50%-60% show-up rate.   Steve: WOW.   Nico Moreno: For my LIVE webinar, which is...   Steve: That's NOT normal.   Nico Moreno: I didn't set up any emails for the webinar and I was getting 90%+ open rates on the Chatbot messages too.   Steve: 90%?   Nico Moreno: Yeah. Some were even close to 100%. It was crazy   Steve: That's higher than a text message to a friend.   Nico Moreno: That's so true. Sometimes you just don't respond to your friends… But people respond to Chatbots.   That was the first time I really got into them. I was like, "There's something really special here. I know that all my friends in the Funnel Hacker community and ClickFunnels community do webinars too. They need to know about this."   USING CHATBOTS FOR YOUR WEBINAR   As you probably know the typical show-up rate for a webinar is in the 20%-30% range.   Steve: Yeah, if it's super good you’ll get 20%-25%.   Nico Moreno: So when I got 40%-50% from using that little Chatbot, I was like, "Holy crap. This is something that all my friends need to know about."   Then I started talking about it and showing people what I had done for that webinar to get so many people showing up.   A big part of your webinar strategy is the actual follow-up sequence after the webinar. Because I had such an incredible open rate on the Chatbot messages, I noticed people were buying more of the offer through the follow-up sequence.   It was pretty cool. That's how I got into building Chatbots and helping other people with Chatbots for MLM.   I just did it for myself and then I realized, "Wow, there is something really special here." And then I started sharing it with other people.   Steve: What you were doing is NOT normal.   Nico Moreno: It's so unintuitive.   But at the same time, once you see it in action and once you see it behind the scenes in your ManyChat account, you're like, "Oh okay, it makes sense."   CHATBOTS FOR MLM ARE BETTER THAN EMAIL   It's the same overall strategy and psychology as an email sequence for webinar registrations.   But it's that much BETTER because it's personalized. It lets the prospect or the lead engage with your Bot in a one-on-one way.   And it's in real-time.   It feels like a real-time conversation. It's like webinars on steroids.   Everybody's already on Facebook.   Another cool thing is the ease of transitioning people over from a Facebook ad to Facebook Messenger. It just pops up right into their Messenger inbox.   A Facebook ad shows up in the newsfeed, then they click on the link, and then it pops up in a whole new tab.   THEN you're getting people to enter their email address. This way is sooo much more seamless, and you keep people on the platform that they're already on.   It's really, really powerful.   Steve: Yeah that's powerful. You don’t have to move people to other places. By keeping them in the same place, you're gonna decrease that funnel friction.   Nico Moreno: Totally.   CREATING YOUR FIRST CHATBOTS FOR MLM   Steve: You and I were chatting before we turned the recorder on… And you were mentioning how one of the BIGGEST false beliefs people have is that "It's technical, it's scary, it's something brand new. I gotta learn how to code."   While you and I both know, it's NOT super technical.   What should somebody be thinking about when they create a Chatbot for the first time?   Nico Moreno: I'm glad that you brought that up because the #1 question I get in my Facebook group is, "Where do I get started?"   They just feel so overwhelmed. They're like, "It's so technical. I don't know what to do. Please just help me get started."   THE MANYCHAT CHATBOT   The number one thing to realize is the software that I use and that I recommend to absolutely everyone, it's called ManyChat. That software does 95% of the heavy lifting.   There's NO coding.   When you use that software, there's ZERO coding. It's   all drag and drop.   It's kind of like ClickFunnels but for Bots.   Of course, there's the strategy and the psychology and the marketing behind it… But as far as the tech stuff, the software does all of the hard work for you.   There's NO coding. NOTHING technical.   The only thing you have to do is add in the copy and edit in the actual words.   You can add some emojis and make it fun.   It's super easy and it's super user-friendly. If you give yourself five minutes… You’ll be able to figure it out.   Steve: A whole five minutes?   Nico Moreno: It's really not hard.   The only hard part is getting yourself to login into ManyChat, I promise.   Steve: Their Pro Plan is $10 or something, isn't it? It's super cheap.   Nico Moreno: Yeah. I always recommend that people get the Pro Plan. It's only $10 per month.   Super affordable and absolutely worth it with some of the cool things that you can do.   It's unbelievable.   USING A CHATBOT FOR ANYTHING   Steve: What's some of the easiest ways someone could still use a Chatbot for MLM without having a full-blown webinar?   Nico Moreno: There's a ton of different ways.   If you have an e-commerce store, you can actually sell certain types of products. Facebook is a little bit strict about the types of products so you gotta read the articles and just be aware.   You can sell products through Messenger and accept payments through a Messenger Bot.   If you're in the e-commerce space, definitely check that out.   Probably the most relevant thing right here today is, you can get people on board with your MLM opportunity. Whether it's a product or a business opportunity.   Steve and I were working on something a while back that allows MLMers to get people into their Chatbot and into their world.   It works like a traffic light, guiding people to take the next steps. It really takes care of that whole prospecting process for you.   It'll send them to the right links and the right pages if they want a free sample of something.   Or it can also guide them to take the steps if they wanna book a phone call with you.   So it really can automate the whole front end process of any online business. For example:   Coaching Consulting Digital products   It's sooo versatile and sooo powerful.   I'm on a mission to get people to realize what a big opportunity they have right underneath their noses.   CHATBOTS FOR MLM   Steve: You’re talking about a product called Chatbots For MLM.   If you guys go to chatbotsformlm.com, you can find out more about that.   In this industry, it's not always fun to go out and cold approach people.   Instead, Nico has it up in such a way that when people come to you on Facebook, you can very softly pitch your people and start steering them to the places that they would choose to go without you having to say anything.   Nico Moreno: Totally.   THREE STEPS TO A SUCCESSFUL CHATBOT   Steve: What's the easiest way for someone to get started with this?   Should somebody start by selling a product, or generating the phone call? Are there patterns you've seen that cause success the fastest?   Nico Moreno: Of course, it's gonna depend on what your offer or product is.   I would say if you need to have a phone call in order to sell your product, that's gonna be different than just having a ‘Buy Now’ button.   But the general strategy that works with Chatbots for MLM is to get people into your Chatbot.   STEP 1: Get people opted into your Chatbot with an enticing, free lead magnet. It’s a similar strategy that you would use for any sales funnel.   STEP 2:Once they opt-in, you can deliver that lead magnet through the Chatbot, just like you would with any email provider.   STEP 3: Quickly follow up with another message that will only send after they've received a lead magnet. You can say, "Hey, I've got this other way that I can help you even more. Are you interested to hear about it?"   And you can have a ‘Yes’ or a ‘No’ button. That's really cool because if they say ‘Yes’ they're basically giving you permission to tell them more about your product or offer.   If they say ‘No’, then they don't feel like they're getting spammed.   Steve: Yeah. They're choosing that.   Nico Moreno: Yeah, totally. That's why it's so powerful. With email, they're gonna get it whether they want it or not.   WHY SHOULD YOU USE CHATBOTS FOR MLM?   Steve: If you’ve been reading this blog for a while, you know I talk about the three levers you can pull in this space. The things that you actually have control over.   You don't own anything in MLM. You own nothing.   So you have three options:   #1: I can upgrade the person I'm speaking with. The WHO.   #2: I can upgrade HOW I approach them in my script and in my offer to them when they join me.   #3: The third thing I have control over is the actual onboarding process and everything I do to train them.   What's so powerful about what Nico has created is that you get to hit the first two with just a Chatbot.   You're not even doing anything.   You're upgrading the WHO because they want it, instead of begging them.   And you're upgrading HOW you approach that person and setting the stage before you ever try to go recruit somebody or sell them your product.   That's so powerful, and it's automated. It's ridiculous.   Nico Moreno: When you're doing this in person, there's a limit to how many people you can talk to per day without losing your mind.   But the Chatbot can do it for as many leads as you have coming in. The Chatbot can handle it all around the clock.   You never miss an opportunity.   CHATBOT EXPERT NICO MORENO   Steve: Where can people learn more about you and hook up with you?   Let's say someone wants to hire you to do this for them. Where should they reach out?   Nico Moreno: The best place to get in touch with me is Facebook.   Another good place to reach out to me is nicomoreno.org.   Also nicomoreno.org/chatbots. I'm gonna have all my Chatbot related stuff there. This is actually a secret page that’s not gonna be available to the public.   It's only gonna be for special opportunities, like this audience.   Steve: nicomoreno.org/chatbots.   Thanks for taking the time and sharing some of your wisdom here. It's been awesome.   Nico Moreno: I appreciate it. I'm always happy to share with your audience and always happy to work with you.   All you gotta do is just commit five minutes and you'll be golden.   LEARN HOW TO USE CHATBOTS FOR MLM   Steve: Alright, here's the deal…   Every business thrives on cash flow and leads. And without cash flow and leads the business dies, right?   Hear me clearly, MLM is no different.   You own a position in a business, which means you need a system in place for cash flow and leads to come to you in your down line.   This is why I have Chatbots for MLM on Facebook pitching people who are talking to me on the internet.   You may have heard of Chatbots For MLM before. It lets you: Qualify multiple leads at once Soft pitch people that you thought weren't interested Bring in a massive amount of leads of people that have been sitting right under your nose the whole time   Go to chatbotsformlm.com to get your pre-built chatbot template now.   Inside you'll get a selling template. You're also gonna get a scheduler template, you also get a pre-built lead-gen template.   Every minute that goes by is another minute that your chatbot could be softly auto-pitching your everyday conversations on Facebook.   Just go to chatbotsformlm.com to get your pre-built chatbot templates now.

How did Steve Sheinkopf and the team at Yale Appliance use blogging to grow the company's website traffic from 30,000 visits a month to one million visits a month while increasing revenues by 350%? This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Yale Appliance and Lighting CEO Steve Sheinkopf shares his company's journey from a small Boston-based lighting and appliance store that relied heavily on advertising for business, to the world's most trafficked appliance website and a business in the process of adding its third store. Central to Yale's success was Steve himself, who blogged five times a week in the early day's of the company's content marketing efforts and continues to create key blog posts to this day. Highlights from my conversation with Steve include: Yale Appliance is the most trafficked appliance website in the world Steve started blogging in 2007 and at the time, Yale Appliance was spending around three quarters of a million dollars on radio ads. From 2007 to 2011, Steve blogged five times a week, but despite the volume of content he was publishing he wasn't seeing any results.  In 2011, Yale was getting 30,000 visitors a month to its website and today, it gets close to a million a month - all due to the shift that Steve and his team made in the way they undertake content marketing. Yale doesn't talk about itself on its blog - it talks about statistics and facts relating to its products, and that is what makes readers trust them. Steve says blogging is all about building domain authority and to that requires a sustained and consistent effort when it comes to content creation. Steve sees blogging as a core competency of his business at Yale and as such believes strongly that it shouldn't be outsourced. Steve still writes blogs for Yale, but today, the company's sales people blog as well. The company tracks the ROI of its content marketing efforts and can show, using data from HubSpot, that views of its blog and buyers guide have driven millions of dollars in business. Steve writes all of the posts relating to reliability, "best of" lists, and articles detailing problems that frequently occur with certain brands. One of the biggest benefits of Yale's content marketing efforts is that the leads it generates are very high intent. His team can see the content they've consumed on the website and it shows exactly what they are interested in. The average appliance store in 10 years has gained probably 15 to 20% in revenue. We've, increased our revenue probably 350% in the same time. 37 about 122 million in a 10 year period. So that certainly plays a part of that in terms of stores. We've gone from one store to we're adding our third in November which will be our biggest store. The average appliance store in 10 years has gained approximately 15 to 20% in revenue. In that time, Yale has increased its revenue by 350%, from 37 to about 122 million in a 10 year period. They have also gone from one store to adding their third in November which will be the company's biggest store. Resources from this episode: Visit the Yale Appliance and Lighting Website Follow Steve on Twitter Connect with Steve on LinkedIn Email Steve at steve.sheinkopf@yaleappliance.com  Listen to the podcast to get learn how Steve Sheinkopf and the team at Yale Appliance and Lighting used content to drive traffic, leads and sales. Transcript Kathleen Booth (Host): Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I'm your host Kathleen Booth and this week my guest is Steve Sheinkopf who is the CEO of Yale Appliance and Lighting. Welcome, Steve. Steve Sheinkopf (Guest): Good to be here Kathleen. How are you? Steve and Kathleen recording this episode. Kathleen: I'm great. I am excited to have you on and I can't wait to dig into our topic. But, not everybody who's listening may know who you are, so can you just tell my listeners a little bit about yourself and your business? About Steve Sheinkopf and Yale Appliance and Lighting Steve: Sure. We're a 97 year old appliance company located in Boston Massachusetts. We sell appliances, lights, we do a lot of service work, and our company's powered by really content marketing and not advertising. That's pretty much what we do. We sell all brands of different appliances, from Sub-Zero down to Samsung and we compete against pretty much 60 Brick and mortar competitors in a 20 mile area plus Online plus Amazon, Wayfair and all the people, Home Depot, that sort of thing. Kathleen: You're being very humble and so I'm going to toot your horn for you because this is like a David and Goliath story. You guys do compete against 800 pound gorillas with huge budgets. If I understand correctly you also in some respects, at least for content and search engine share, you compete against the manufacturers of the appliances that you sell. So on paper this story shouldn't be possible which is what I love about it. But you guys have one of the most trafficked, if not the most traffic to appliance websites in the world. Correct? Steve: Yeah. I think so. Kathleen: It's amazing. So all right, for people who are listening, I have been bugging Steve and his team to try and get one of them on this podcast for about two years now because I first started hearing this story of Yale Appliance a couple of years back. It was before I joined IMPACT I had heard about it from Marcus Sheridan, who plays a role in the story. And then I had the opportunity to get to know these guys better through IMPACT and all along I've just been so impressed. The reason, and it is a classic content marketing story, and I say classic because it's the things we're all told to do. Only you guys actually went and did them which is the big differentiator. But the reason I was so excited to have you particularly on is that most of my guests are marketers and they're already drinking the Kool-Aid. The biggest challenge they tend to have, is getting the C-suite not only to buy-in, but my gosh for them The Holy Grail is to actually participate in the process. And you've been doing this all along. So that's really what I want to talk about. But let's kind of rewind the clock if you would and start back from when you first began. I've heard the story a couple of times but I'm sure everybody hasn't. So maybe you could just tell the tale of how did you guys first travel down this path? Because you're a 90 year old company and you were not always the most trafficked website for appliances in the world. How Yale Appliance discovered content marketing Steve: Oh, clearly not, clearly not. It's a long story but really it starts in 2004. I went to this thing called The In-Planet and it was absolute genius. There's a bunch of it was I think Boston visors or the Bain or McKinsey guys, they were talking about the future of marketing and they were talking about how digital one day overtake outbound and to prepare for it, it wasn't happening yet. And they said. "The least you can do is get on the whole review side, that reviews are going to play a big part of how people are going to purchase from your company." So that's the first thing we did is we got on with all the yelpers and instead of berating them for giving you bad views, we looked inside ourselves to say. " Maybe we're really disappointing people organically." So we started in 2007 blogging. And at the same time it was doubling down on radio. We did a lot of radio at that time I think it was the final number was somewhere around three quarters of a million dollars. And we doubled down during the recession and the more we advertise it was like diminishing returns. I used to ask the phone people anybody called them radio ads. When we started doing it in 2000 it was popular by 2010 no one really seemed interested. So we started blogging in 2007. It was 2011 when I met Marcus Sheridan and I thought it was going to teach Marcus something. The first conversation we have, everybody loves Marcus. He's like a folksy guy and back if we rewind the clock in 2011, at that time I was blogging every day but I wasn't blogging by keyword. I wasn't- Why the CEO of Yale Appliance dedicated himself to blogging Kathleen: Now you yourself were blogging? Steve: Yeah, I was. Kathleen: I just want to clarify that. Steve: I did that five days a week. Kathleen: That's amazing. Did you publish, was it five blogs or was it? Steve: Five posts a week. Kathleen: That's great. Steve: Well it's great when it's good stuff, not so great. And it was well-meaning, but it wasn't... Even when it answered the question I never titled it right, I didn't met a tag it. So our first conversation was just absolute beat down. It was pretty bad, but he was right. At that time we have 30,000 people a month going into our site, which on paper doesn't seem bad but we started blogging strategically and now we expect a million visitors a month, we were busy and somewhere out six, 700,000, we're not. And with that comes certainly more leads, more traffic, more business and that's what this is about. And I can't believe that, I can't believe. But if you were to say to a CEO, look we're going to start this program that's not going to be effective in six months, then you probably not going get much buy-in on the C-suite. But if you say to somebody, I'm going to reduce ad spend to zero and increase revenues disproportionately to your market share - I mean, what does the bottom line look like? And it's a great learning tool and it creates trust and it creates distrust for your competitors that aren't doing this. They're selling products that maybe they shouldn't be. That's a pretty compelling case so if you structure like that, I think people get more buy-in from the people that need to buy in to say this is a revenue expense game and it's what, how people really want to consume stuff. Because nobody really wants to listen to me say how great I am. In fact, we never talk about ourselves. We talk about statistics and facts and helping people make purchases because you go to all these content marketing seminars they talk about trust and that's how you really trying to do. If they trust you and your pricing is good and your execution which is the back half of what I really work on is are we executing to, what our value proposition is? Because blogging without execution is just bad. Work on execution first then blog. So that's the whole story. Kathleen: You raise a really interesting point and I've been in this inbound or content marketing game a long time. I had an agency for 11 years. Something that you said really struck me because you talked about if you say to a CEO, we're going to create blogs and you're not going to see any results for six months, that is what I would say the disproportionate percentage of people in this space say it when somebody says, how long will it take for me to get results? Which everybody wants to know, right? Because that's what it's all about is the results people will always answer with, well it takes time. Six months to a year you'll start to see something. And while there are aspects of content marketing that that is true for, there are also aspects of it that that is absolutely not true. Where you can see some sorts of results right away. And I think you're right when you set that expectation that's going take a while. That's not exactly the best way to sell it. Steve: Well, I mean, blogging is about domain authority. Strictly we use words to cover up what we really mean and you don't become an authority figure with one or two posts. You need to show over a long period of time that you know what you're doing, whether it's getting a client, business, life, whatever it is. You don't become an authority with one good post. That said, if you write about something that's brand new that nobody else's, you could probably rank high pretty quickly. Kathleen: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I've always said that the best moments in my content marketing career have been when I googled a question and didn't find an answer for it and I was like, ha ha, I'm right that answer. So what I'm curious about is you actually were convinced even before you met Marcus, that just that blogging in and of itself had value now obviously there was a better way to do it. Why you should insource content creation Kathleen: But what I'm really interested in understanding from you is when you first had this realization that hey, we might need to blog as part of our corporate strategy. What was it that convinced you personally to write? Because I think most of the CEOs I know who have that Aha moment and realized blogging is important. Their first thought is, I'm going to assign that to somebody or we're going to outsource it. Very few think I'm going to do it. Steve: Well, it's like anything else. You want to outsource things that either you're not good at or someone can do cheaper. If you want something to be a core competency you have to do it yourself, right? You can't be good at something, outsource it and then hope it gets better. Right? If you want it to be a core competency where every year, like every month, every week, every, if you're part of it and you're interested in it and intrigues you and it touches the customer it's important. That's something you don't outsource. So it's a matter of I think people that are outsourcing, the losing the whole kind of how do we get better? How do we read, what are customers asking and how are we better solve the problem? Goes into merchandising, it goes into everything we do, what lines we sell, what lines we don't sell. Because we have the finger on the pulse of what we think the customer reacts to. But you're never going to get good at it... Let's forget about if we call it something else, like social media or writing or customer outreach. If you're outsourcing it as a methodology, nobody's going to know your business better than you do. And it doesn't matter which content conference we go to whether it's Impact or Inbound or HubSpot or whatever those. Anybody that's outsourcing with writers from whatever, what Fiverr from Indiana they're just not getting the results they could if they did it themselves and treat it like a crucial pillar of our business of ,your business which it could be, which it should be. Who creates content at Yale Appliance Kathleen: Now in the beginning you were writing five articles a week. What does that look like today? Are you still actively writing or are there other folks in the company that are primarily doing it? Steve: Well, it really depends, but the sales people. Sales people write blogs to varying degrees. I still edit most of them and I still write the important ones. And again, some of the ones I've written have, there are two that are over 2 million, 20 million views. But forget about the views, we have a report that shows people that go into our buyers guide from blogs and how much money we derive from that on a monthly, yearly basis. It's certainly well worth doing financially to do that, be part of it. And again my time spent at the CEO and culture and metrics and enforcing standards, after that really social outreach which I can reach a whole market of people by writing a blog. It's just so worth my time I think. Kathleen: And you mentioned that you write the important posts and that there are certain posts that really take off. What are the topics that you feel like best come from you? Steve: Well, the ones that resonate are the ones that are reliability posts that we were ranked manufacturers based on a service in the first year. I think some industry problem ones, are best from me, I think some of the comparisons other people can do. Again, when you look at blogging, if you want to figure out if your sales people know what they're talking about, you read their blogs. And if they can't tell you what the five best gas range tops are and in a blog they probably won't be able to sell if the customer comes into the store. So is a good learning tool for new people to just read Wiskott-Aldrich. So the time to get a new person up is much quicker. But I write reliability, best and problems ones. Kathleen: Were you always just really comfortable with writing? Is that a format that you gravitate to? Steve: Not initially, I realized the value of it but if you look at what I wrote back in 2007 versus what we write now, it's much better, much different. And that's true of anything. Everyone always says. "I'm an awful writer." Everybody is awful. This saying that every expert starts as a beginner. If you stick with it and you write three articles a week every week, if you're new, by the time one year rolls around, you've written 152 articles. That's enough for authority, but you're going to be much better after a year than you are in the beginning. Everything you do that you practice you work hard on you're going to get better at. Whether it's blogging or anything else in business. Kathleen: Now, do you find that you've gotten faster also? Steve: Yes. I think in blogs now. I've been doing it for since 2007 .I think in blog posts like comparisons and invest because I've been doing it for that long. Kathleen: How long does it take you to produce a blog? Steve: Me? Kathleen: Yeah. Steve: I can produce a blog in probably a couple of hours. The ROI of Yale's content marketing efforts Kathleen: That's great. I think it's interesting because a lot of CEOs would hear a couple of hours and think there's no way. My time is too valuable for that. So you mentioned that you guys have systems put in place to track how he is this content turns into revenue. Can you give me a sense of what that looks like and what that's produced? I don't even know if you can get it down to like what is a blog worth? I'm sure each of them is worth a different amount, but I'd love to understand better what kind of ROI you're seeing. Steve: Well, let's forget the fact that basically the path to purchase goes to the Internet. It has since probably 2005. Alright? So but the way we do, we use a very crude metric. I have Google analytics where I can... that our time on site jumps when you talk about a blog posts really, time on site pages views equal to consumers. But we can talk about store visits, but in terms of share revenue the number that we look at over a 12 month period is anybody that's downloaded a buyer's guide. So let's say you download a buyer's Guide and get 20th. If you come into the store buy with that same email address, we track them and let's just say your friend, partners, significant other, spouse buys under theirs, that's not tracked. So just from the people that download buyers guide, they buy it comes out to be about a million or a million and half per month in revenue. Yeah, that's just that not including... What we tried to do when you look at when anybody looks at Google analytics, typically Marcus said for his pool company, once they hit pages 30, his conversion goes up. For us I think it's seven minutes or 10 and a half pages and blogs play a big part of that. You want to get trust and then you want to execute. And that's kind of how businesses and the blogging is in marketing is half that or say a third of it, the sales and execution, delivery, install, all that stuff has to be in order for this to work. Certainly the articles have to be good, but the delivery experience, the installation experience and the service experience of what we do, which is our differentiating factors have to be as good if not better. Kathleen: So this has had a major implication for your overall business. Obviously it's not just revenue, clearly you're getting a lot of traffic and that's turning into business for you. But can you talk a little bit about some of the new directions that you're thinking of heading in as a result of this? What Yale's success with content marketing has meant for its business Steve: What we've been able to do certainly on the revenue side. The average appliance store in 10 years has gained probably 15 to 20% in revenue. We've, increased our revenue probably 350% in the same time. 37 about 122 million in a 10 year period. So that certainly plays a part of that in terms of stores. We've gone from one store to we're adding our third in November which will be our biggest store. But really what we've done is we've taken that 2% that we normally two or 3%, we normally take in marketing and we put it in customer touchpoints and really the customer touchpoints, are systems and people. We've been able to keep good people because instead of blowing it on $3 million worth of say, Glow Buds or radio spots or something, we have a better medical, we have 401k matching. To me that's... You market to your people first and those people market to your customers. So we've been able to take that wasted spend and put it into areas that people really appreciate. And that's people, systems, displays, warehousing, all that stuff, that's the other half of it. Is to take that money you would have spent and put it where people really want it. The first thing during the recession when we change management, first thing I said is we're going to answer the phone, right? We're going to answer the phone and we're going to be good on the execution side. And we put our money towards that rather than putting money on marketing. And it wouldn't take off if we didn't have some kind of social profile, which that whole blogging is a part of really, if blogging is a core competence that helps people come into the stores and then it's the execution side. It's two parts to this it's not just blogging that drives the revenue. It's the execution that keeps the revenue. Kathleen: It's funny because there's lots of buzz that I hear at least that we could be due for another recession sometime in the next couple of years. When you think about the evolution of the company and how you've done marketing and consider that there is this prospect that we may get hit again with another recession. How do you think the company will fare given your new marketing approach? Because it's very different than what you did the last time around. Steve: I think we'll do a lot better again because one of the things is we're not wasting money. We all know that outbound marketing is a negative ROI deal. I think as long as you understand who your customer is and you're straight and transparent with them, I think you have a leg up over people who do not do that. And that's pretty much everybody in our space. There's some people that are doing it, some people that are doing well, but they don't understand the whole execution side. Kathleen: Now the other thing that I think is interesting is historically you've been a local business. You're in the Boston area and well that's a big local market. It's still a local market and now you're getting all this traffic. I have to imagine a considerable amount of that traffic is not from the Boston area. Some people might hear that and think, well that's great that you have more traffic, but it's not really, that's not valuable traffic because they're not going to be able to walk in the door and buy from you. How do you look at that? Steve: Oh that's very true. 88% of our traffic we cannot sell to. Because delivering an appliance it's not like delivering Sharmane tissues.Especially in Boston because we got brownstones and walk-ups you need very specialized delivery people. That's why we pay the delivery people well because we're not spending it on marketing. But the worst thing you can do is ruin your reputation by not execute. It's a fair question a lot of this traffic is not really valid traffic. Let's take a million people say that we got last month on the blog or 800,000 or whatever it was, say it's 800,000 we'll minimize that means 12% of 800,000 in your market. How many people... We write to a specific audience. So how many people? 12% of a million or 800,000 it's still a lot of people that's still you're writing to 70,000 people. They're not reading your blog because they want to get to something else. It's still a significant amount of people in the market. There's no way to hit, it's like the old days they talked about radio ads. It's like they sold it to you. There's 100,000 home owners but only 2% of them are in the market and only 2% of those will listen to ad. The people that are clicking on a blog posts are showing intent, right? So those are 70,000 people showing you intent because they're clicking on something. It's not like the old radio or TV metrics. So that's still a lot of people looking to buy from you. Kathleen: Do you ever foresee that there might be an opportunity for you to somehow monetize that other 80%? Steve: No, unless we're directly involved in the actual fulfillment of the order. I don't want to be involved. If we look at... There's a lot of really good online appliance stores that have really good interfaces. They put their money on the front end, but if you look at the reviews on Yelp or Google, they're so bad and over time that'll catch up to you. Right? Because really, the one thing that I always tell the people in the marketing department is don't forget that your consumer and the path to purchase is okay, you'll read a blog everyone talks about what's the one thing, it's all about attribution. You'll read a blog post, you'll go online and you're mobile, you'll sit on your tablet, but somewhere down the line you're going to read reviews before you decide to purchase from that company or not. And you don't want everybody loves Impact because you guys do good work. But if you had a two star reputation on like Yelp or Google, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Right. So, I'm willing to... First of all, there's enough business in a local market. I want more, it's cheaper in, and easier and better to be in the Boston market. Than being partly in Boston, in somewhere in L.A. which is actually our biggest market for the blog, New York. I think it's better logistically to stay where you are. Kathleen: I was going to say maybe someday you'll have... You have three stores now maybe you'll someday have 30. Steve: The way it works from a business standpoint, this goes a little bit back to blogging is you have a warehouse. You want to maximize that warehouse, then in a third store you need a bigger warehouse and you want to maximize that warehouse and then you run stores up that warehouse, that's where it becomes the most efficient to do business. Going to L.A and having logistics there and hiring and hiring service people in a whole new network is much more difficult. Steve's advice to other CEOs Kathleen: It's a good problem to have too much traffic and more than you can sell to. I want to go back to this issue of most CEOs don't necessarily see the justification for being personally involved in this. If somebody is listening and they are a Content Manager or the Head of Marketing and they're passionate about creating content for the company and they want the CEO to be involved, As a CEO yourself, do you have any advice for the best way for that person to approach the CEO and get them excited about taking part in this process? Steve: It's like we said in the beginning, there aren't too many opportunities to increase your brand in the profile of that brand. There's not too many ways to create trust and there's not too many ways to raise revenue and reduce expenses at the same time. What is your bottom line look like by raising revenue and reducing expenses? And that's really my job is to... We used to be happy if we reduced expenses by 30, 50, 60,000. Well now we're talking about reducing expenses at our level 700, a million, $2 million in increasing the top line revenues by since we'll be doing it anywhere from eight to 15% a year in a highly competitive market. There aren't too many opportunities to do that. In fact, there aren't any opportunities to do that. And if you're a CEO and your other face of the brand of the company and it comes from you and you're answering people's questions and handling people's problems, that goes a long way in building your brand there. If it isn't that, what else would you be doing? I could sit there and run the warehouse, but there are people that run the warehouse better than me. I could sit on Ops, the people that run operations better than me. It's important for a CEO to understand the metrics of success in the company, but terms of really the overall of really the fundamentals of a P&L we have revenues, we have expenses. If you raise one and lower the other one, that's what we're paid to do. And this is a unique opportunity to do it. Now, do you have to do it to my extreme? No, clearly not. I got involved 12 years ago but if you were to do a post or two a week and maybe handle a couple of dicey problems and show that you have kind of deep seated knowledge of the industry. Especially if you're selling services, which many people do and you show that you handled that problem, a person with that problem is probably going to give you due consideration. Right. That's the way it works. Kathleen: It's very interesting that you brought up the thing about personal brand because that's something that I've been giving a lot of thought to lately. There are so many companies creating content now. You were fortunate or had the incredible foresight to start doing this very early when this wasn't as ubiquitous. I just went to HubSpot's Inbound event there were 26,000 people there who are all drinking the Kool-Aid of content marketing. And you look at crowds like that and you think, wow, all these people are bought in. It's getting harder to stand out and I really believe that one very effective way to stand out is through personal branding. Because anybody can kind of copy generic content, but you can't copy a personal brand that is inherently individual. So I'm curious in your experience for you personally, aside from the business results, what have you experienced as you've put your personal brand behind the content? Like has that resulted in anything for you? Steve: First of all let's not give me so much credit. I ran out of money. I didn't have a choice. Most good content marketers will tell you during the recession, we all ran out at doe. That's why- Kathleen: I owned a business in the recession. And I can definitely second that. That's why I started blogging too. I was like, I have all this time and no money. I'll write. Steve: Exactly. I could've just as easily destroyed a 90 year old company, which I was very close to doing. That's it I'm not really interested in my own personal brand. Really having gone through the recession as both of us have, it's more important for the company to have a strong balance sheet than it is for me to build a personal brand. And personal branding is, brands are like sponges. They can't they get everything, they keep everything that's good and bad about the brand. And the fact that my personal brand, your personal brand impact Yale, we don't know own the brands anyway. It's what's being said out there that really shapes what the brand is. Kathleen: Don't they say that your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room? Steve: Your brand is what other people say. We've lost control of our brand when the Internet became popular. So, really personal branding... I think people appreciate I still answer most of the questions on the blog and I think people appreciate the fact that it's not me I'm not building my personal brand. I think a lot of people need help they're not getting in other places. And what I do is just, I give them the what to do and how to do it. And it's not about building a personal brand at all. Kathleen's two questions Kathleen: So interesting. I love your story and it's unbelievable what you guys have done. We don't have too much more time, so I want to make sure before we wrap up that I asked you the two questions I ask all of my guests. The first one being we're all about inbound marketing on this podcast. Is there a particular company or individual that you know, who you think is really killing it with inbound marketing right now? Steve: Obviously great adversary Marcus Sheridan his killing it. I think back to our first conversation, there were two thoughts and went through my head as A. I need to do this B. I want him to eat his words. And you know the funny thing is it's like I want it to be better than him. But it never worked out that way because he was on other things it's almost like you go into the battlefield and you get a note from guys saying. "Hey, the land is yours and by the way I love what you're doing and all the rest of it, but I'm busy taking over France or whatever." His journey into his personal brand of videos is really compelling and I think his role with the pool company. I think they do a great job. The person that I liked the most in this space is a Crystal Cornea and what she did at Block Imaging I thought was fantastic. She made buying refurbs cool. She made people in that company feel cool writing about it. For me, I tell people it's good to do because it's good for your personal brand that I shouldn't control your brand. But she made it cool to do that. I've kind of lost touch with Block and what they've done since but I know she's left and she works as a consultant for other people, but I really love the way she goes about it. She's very inclusive and she did a great job with Block. Kathleen: Yeah, she's really impressive and you know, Marcus is, you're right. I interviewed him I think he was my first episode of this year. And the thing that I love about Marcus and you totally hit the nail on the head. He's constantly evolving. And the reason to me is that he's such a student of human nature, which is what makes him great at content marketing. He is not a marketer. He is a student of human nature. And so that is what led him to realize that, hey, we just have to answer people's questions. Right. This isn't super scientific it's almost once you tell somebody they sh they're like, Duh. But it took somebody who wasn't a marketer to figure it out. And somebody who's a keen observer of people. And that's the same thing that he's doing with video. He's a very keen observer of people and how they interact and communicate and so it makes them incredibly successful. Steve: Oh yeah. I think I the fundamentals to content marketing is the same fundamentals of everything else is. A. Do know what you're doing? B. Can you communicate it? And that'll come if you know what you're doing and C. And this is the really important part, this is like the C-level stuff is, are you executed once you've said that? And those three, if you put those three together, you have some special. Kathleen: And I always say also, can you get out of your own way? Because often marketers are their own worst enemies and they take their human hat off and put their marketing hat on and they write like robots and it's just, it's interesting. Steve: So they write and a lot more people are starting to write for search engines and that's troubling too. And they can't basically answer the question. There's so many people that... Everyone talks about tips, hacks, it's got to be 2000 words now or whatever it is. But the person that answers the question that best will get ranked because Google's not stupid they'll give the best experience wins. And if you can answer the question on a 1,000 words and is more compelling than the person writing 2000 words and you'll win. Kathleen: Right. The only correct answer to how long does an article need to be is as long as is required to answer the question. Second question is, the world of digital marketing is changing really quickly. And obviously your a CEO, you're not wearing the marketing hat in the company, but you're somebody who is keenly aware of marketing. How do you stay up to date and make sure that you're not falling behind the times with marketing? Steve: That's a great question now that I'm in Boston now I've commuted to stores. I actually have a commute. So I podcast a lot and there's some good marketing podcast. Patel has a very good one, Tony Robbins has a good one, some of the paid search guys have good ones. There's five or six, I'll listen to I'll read blog post and then I'll go to some conferences. Impact has become important over the last couple of years.Certainly HubSpot, we've been going to HubSpot they used to have it at the, at the Hilton hotel and [Copley 00:37:51] two rooms. When I was there initially I think it was 400 people in two tracks. And RF, which is the Retail Foundation in January they put a good one in New York, such marketing conferences and other one I'll go to like four or five conferences a year. If there's a good class I'll do that, Linkedin learning is apart, Social Media Examiner, they have to get some good stuff too. So it's a constant because everything changes and you want to be on top of that certainly. Kathleen: It Can be very tough to keep up with but I do think it's a matter of picking your five or six sources that you really love and just sticking with those and you've got anything else on top of it. That's gravy. Steve: The one thing is it's you can only be especially if you're a small team and I think this is geared more to a small business maybe, but you've got a small team or if you're a single person, like me and Pat were initially. You can only be very good in it one or two aspects. You can't be great at blogging, great at Instagram, great at Pinterest, great at Google ads. You can't be great at like there are 10 things that you can be really great in marketing that can move the needle, but pick one or two. That A. Figured out where customers are and you learned Google analytics for that. And two figure out what your passions are. If your passions with photography, like I'm not, Instagram would be a good one for you, Pinterest would be a good one for you. Wherever you think you can really dominate a certain aspect, rather be just mediocre at everything. You do not need to everything you needed to one or two things really, really well. Kathleen: Right. That's the old Jack of all trades, master of none problem. Right? Steve: Very true. How to connect with Steve Kathleen: This has been so great if somebody wants to learn more about Yale Appliance or connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Steve: I don't really know. Kathleen: Visit your website I would assume, right? Steve: Yeah. I'm on Twitter I guess like everybody else. I've got 3000 followers. I have no idea who they are. Certainly LinkedIn, my email address, you can certainly give steve.sheinkopf@yaleappliance.com. This community it's been really good to me and I'm happy to really answer any questions that anybody has. About marketing or inbound marketing or anything else. So email, Linkedin. My name is Steve Sheinkopf obviously, Twitter that type of stuff. I'll get back to you eventually. Kathleen: Great. Well, I will put the links to all those things in the short notes. And of course you already said that you answer all the questions on the blog. So I would think that people could go there and if they have questions about appliances, they know who to ask. You know what to do next... Kathleen: And if you're listening and you learnt something new, or you liked what you heard, of course, please leave the podcast a five star review on Apple Podcasts. That's how we get funds. And if you know somebody else who's doing kick ass inbound marketing work, tweet me @workmommywork, because I would love to interview them. That's it for this week. Thanks Steve. Steve: Alright. Thank you Kathleen.

Sir Jon and our friend Nick Banks, staff writer for Horror News Network and longtime comic fan talk to Steve Bissette, longtime comic artist and writer. Why is Ganache avoiding Steve? What is the newest project he has been working on? Is Nick Cage showing up for this episode? All will be answered on this episode taken from the recent WESU archives! Listen In!!

Freedom of time, money, relationships, and purpose is what we all want. Property managers, realtors, and investors help clients build wealth through real estate.  Today, I am talking to Steve Welty, owner of Good Life Property Management business and podcast. He enjoys meeting amazing people and indoctrinating listeners with his philosophies.  You’ll Learn... [03:23] Stop whining about solvable issues, such as online reviews to get warm leads.  [04:41] Steve surfs to success with Good Life Property Management.  [06:43] Podcast Passion Project: Do content for content's sake; add value to people's lives for opportunities and connections to come your way. [10:19] Don’t lose focus on why and what fires you up; limit time and effort spent on your business to achieve outcomes. [15:00] Purpose of Business: Not to make money; build a business that makes money.  [16:25] How to be happy: Create momentum for other people to gain momentum. If you wish to become great, learn to become the servant of many. [18:12] Zig when they Zag: Success outside outsource sandbox to reduce costs.  [18:55] Results-based Biz: Hire young, smart, motivated people and leave them alone.  [19:31] Big Issues, Big Success: More people can lead to more problems; paint a compelling vision to keep good people and let them do what they want to do.  [20:10] Move Out and Outwork Others: Create freedom of time and money by hiring CFO or profit first coach/accountant to offer advice, not control over finances.  [26:10] Value-add Revenue Sources: If you don't charge for it, you're doing it poorly.  [28:25] Opportunities in Other States/Markets: Pop-up shops to buy cash flow property.  [29:05] To Die List and Time Study: Procrastination problem property managers and owners experience.  [35:00] Barriers/Protections: Teach team and customers how to treat and reach you.  [37:35] Opinions vs. Observations: Co-creation/coaching is transformational and transactional superpower that changes lives.  [46:45] Give up control and allow people to fail, or you create an unsafe business.  [52:30] What Matters: Million ways to get to end results and outcomes.  [54:05] Hire and Fire: Center on core values; be reliable, positive, and go-giver (RPG). [57:10] Epiphany: Everything worthwhile lives on the other side of fear.  [1:03:05] Money is one side of it. Easiest decision to make is to be a different person.  Tweetables Do content for content's sake. Limit time in your business; achieve outcomes with least amount of effort. Add limitations or constraints to create a necessity for innovation. First key to greater time, money, and purpose is to create space for yourself. Resources Steve Welty’s Email Good Life Property Management Good Life Property Management Podcast Steve Welty on Spotify Steve Welty on Apple PM Grow Orange Tree Property Management GatherKudos National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM) Brad Larson Gary Vaynerchuk The 4-hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss Todd Breen Making Money is Killing Your Business by Chuck Blakeman How I Built This with Guy Raz Let My People Go Surfing by Yvon Chouinard  Voxer Jason Goldberg (Strategic Coach) Extreme Ownership Book E-Myth Book The Go-Giver  KingJasonHull’s Whimple on SoundCloud DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz Transcript Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you're open to doing things a little bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it, you think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners, we want to change the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull. The founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let's get into the show. Today's guest, I’m really excited, we’re hanging out with Steve Welty. Steve, welcome to the DoorGrow show. Steve: What’s up Jason? Good to be here. Jason: Steve and I were reminiscing. I saw Steve at a broker owner conference, the very first one I went to several years ago and we were sitting at the same table and I guess I said hi to you and we were chatting it up. Steve: Yeah. It's funny, I remember that day very vividly and it's interesting because I have a very poor memory. You were the mysterious man behind me and you were dressed really nice. Jason: I don't dress nice anymore. I'm too lazy now. Steve: Yeah, you're just soaking it all, but we were talking before the show, was that really one of your first conferences? Jason: That was the first conference I'd gone to, yeah. My dad had just started property management business. He's got maybe about 200 doors now, but he had just started a property management business. He had been a hospital administrator for 30 years or something and he said, “I'm going to do what Bryan’s doing and start a property management business.” My brother has got maybe 1000 doors or something like that and he is out of Orange County. Not too far from you down San Diego. He thought, “Bryan’s doing it, maybe I could do this too.” He decided to become an entrepreneur. Caught the bug. It's been fun to watch that, but I was like, “Dad, let's go do this. I want to see what happens there. The only way I can go is if I'm with you, you're a broker owner.” I was his director of marketing and I was just the fly on the wall for Orange Tree Property Management, just checking out what goes on a broker owner. I just want to see what happened there. It was challenging for me though because the entire time I'm hearing people talk about problems, and challenges, and I'm just biting my tongue the whole time. I’m like, “I could solve that challenge. I can help with that.” I just had to sit there and be quiet. I've even got a text message from one of my clients that was sitting in the room and he said, “I'll bet this is just killing you right now,” I texted him back, “You have no idea.” It was just really funny to hear people whining about stuff that I think is solvable. Steve: What was something out of all those issues you're biting your tongue about that you can reflect on today. Jason: Now you’re interviewing me. Steve: I'm interested to hear that. Jason: I remember one of the things that really killed me was people were like, “How do you deal with your online reviews? How do you get more positive online reviews?” We have our system GatherKudos, and we have coaching material around that that we’d go through with clients to figure out how to identify peak happiness, leverage a lot of reciprocity, how to get more reviews, how to build a system in your business as part of your onboarding process with new tenants so you get more reviews. I think that's a better system to have than even most marketing systems, because that creates warm leads. I was just sitting there listening to them talk and some of the ideas were, “We're okay, we're good,” but I was like, “This is so solvable.” Steve: Reviews are still a big issue, six years later or whatever it is. Jason: Correct. Steve: People still can’t figure it out. It’s tough. I still try to figure it out on a daily basis. Jason. Yeah. Cool. Steve, you've got an awesome property management business. You've got your own podcast that you do. You've got a lot of stuff going on. Help my audience understand who you are and give us a little bit of background on Steve, your adventures in property management, and how you got into it. Steve: For sure. I graduated from San Diego State 2005 and stayed in construction for a little while. I was working with constructions in college, just bumming around, surfing, and doing whatever I was doing. Got my real estate license finally and did some deals 2006-2007. I hear a lot of stories like this, it’s like 2006-2007 sales, all of our sales, we should start a Facebook group for sales guys that flamed out, well I think it is, it’s probably called than NARPM of Facebook group. It seemed like everyone has that story. I made some nice checks in sales and I thought I was great, and then I became broke very fast. I was 26-27 and I was broke. I was applying for any job that I could get and I went to work for a French entrepreneur in Carlsbad as a personal assistant. He wanted someone to manage his property manager that had a real estate license because he didn't trust his property manager. Jason: Okay, so you were the spy that was going to monitor whether he was doing his job or not. Steve: Yeah, most managers hate it when the owner micromanages you. Imagine a realtor micromanaging you. I was like, “Yeah, I can do that,” I never managed anything in my life, but I figured it out and worked with him. He actually taught me some great business lessons looking back, but two years in, it was very stressful working for him. He was not the nicest guy, but he did teach me a lot and then I went out on my own with a business partner at the time. We decided, “Hey, let's start our own management company and just got it enough off the ground to allow me to quit my job, be on property management with my partner I think in 2008. We grew that until about 2012 and then we decided to part ways. I started Good Life in 2013 and then been doing Good Life ever since. I started the Good Life Property Management podcast which has nothing to do with clients, nothing to do with getting new customers. It was really a passion project and something I learned out of that was that I encourage people to do content for content's sake if their heart tells them to do that. A lot of times we try to figure out, “Well, how am I going to monetize that?” I remember when I asked Brad Larson, I think he was one of the first people to do a podcast that was a property manager. I was like, “What are you doing this for?” and he was like, “Oh, it's fun,” I was like, “It didn’t make any sense, you're wasting time.” When you add value, like Gary V—a lot of people have really put this in the forefront—when you add value to people's lives, opportunities come your way, connections come your way. I have so much fun doing the Good Life Property Management podcast and we serve the same community you serve which is property management entrepreneurs. I don't run ads. I have ran ads in the past, but I don't anymore. I don't necessarily get anything out of it other than just meeting cool people and getting to indoctrinate my listeners with my philosophies which are really along the same lines in a lot of ways as you, Jason. I really resonate with your manifesto in a lot of ways, so that's cool. That's it. I'm big into music. I do a lot of music. Steve Welty, I’m on Spotify and Apple, and that's my passion. I'm going more and more into that. Also, we have tried mastermind for property management entrepreneurs to max out their business and life. That's what's up for me. Jason: Cool stuff. I think we have a lot in common. Not only are we both California guys. A lot of people listening may not know this, but I had a band in college. I wrote all the music, I played guitar. I didn’t know I was an entrepreneur then. I didn't know that was in my blood, but I was the guy going door-to-door with a guitar and a clipboard pre selling CDs at girl’s dorms that I could fund to self-produce an album, and I was playing music. Steve: That’s [...]. Jason: I know, it was pretty crazy. The album is on SoundCloud if people are searching for it. Steve: Let’s check it out, what’s it called, how can we find it? Jason: My username on SoundCloud is my username everywhere, which is KingJasonHull, and the album is called Whimple, that was the name of my band. Steve: I love it. I think you told me that a while back, but I forgot, but I'm really fascinated with that because that was my story, too. I was a songwriter. That was hustle. I give you street credit like going dorm-to-dorm, playing for chicks, that's pretty cool. I thought I was going to be a rock star. That was my deal, but it's so funny looking back. I didn’t even practice. I just thought I have the natural talent and I used to drink a lot so I was probably delusional. I had this moment, this crossroads where I was like, “Okay, you're not going make it,” I'm not going to be okay being older and broke, so I'm going to go on a business route. I just gave up music completely, and then I was in a strategic coach workshop. I have given it up five or six years and I met this entrepreneur. I was telling him about my story. I was like, “I don't really play music anymore,” and he's like, “Oh, that sucks.” I’m like, “Yeah, it does suck.” Then he’s like, “Well, you have a guitar in your office don’t you?” and I was like, “No.” He’s like, “Well you’re the boss, aren’t you?” Jason: I can see it right behind you. Steve: Yeah, right now I do it. He’s like, “You’re the boss.” I’m like, “Yeah.” He’s like, “Well, why don’t you try this, try just putting a guitar in your office. Just make a commitment to picking it up once a day even if it's for one second.” It really resonated with me because I had given up a part of myself that was really important because I think a lot of time as business owners, we just get so focused on like, “We got to make this company work,” and we’d lose focus of why and what fires us up on an internal level. I did that and that about two years ago, fast forward to today, I'm putting many hours a day into music, into song writing, into recording, into building my audience and it's helped my business so much because when you limit the amount of time that you're in your business, you can only do the things that you're really good at and so that's what I'm really passionate about, is figuring out how can I achieve an outcome with the least amount of effort possible. Jason: Yeah, because when we add limitation or constraint, it creates the byproduct of limitation or creating a constraint is it creates a necessity for innovation. If you have unlimited amounts of time, unlimited amounts of money, unlimited whatever, there's no innovation because it's so easy to be lazy. It's so easy to just let things unfold in a different way, but when we have some time constraints or we have some financial constraints, we have to get creative and that's where the genius starts to come out, that's where new ideas start to come out. I've noticed that even with team members, if I say “I need this done by this time,” they get creative or if I need this done under this budget, they get creative, then they start to innovate. If I say, “Yeah, do it whenever, take as much time as you want, spend as much money as you want,” there's no innovation. They're just going to go towards whatever seems easiest, which is the status quo. Steve: Yeah, you nailed it. I've been really interested in constraints. I had a son, my first child, he’s six months old, Myles, and I was encouraged by a friend of mine. He said “Take 30 days off, Steve,” he's like “It'll be the best thing you ever did for your business. Don't check in, don't do anything. Take 30 days off. Be with your son.” It was in December, so it was like the perfect time and so I did that, and man he was right. It really levelled up my business, my team got way better. They were already good, but just putting these things into place that force you to grow. That 30 days off was huge. Next year I'm planning a 60-day trip to another country that I’m really passionate about using that. I even got my operations manager. He doesn't work out of the office anymore. I moved out of my office a long time ago because when you're in the office, you are often the bottleneck for your company and everyone comes to you for the answers and the solutions. I really grabbed on to that concept and constantly looking for new ways to use constraints to my advantage. Jason: I love it. It's been awhile since I've told the client to do this, but a lot of clients will ask questions like, “How do I become a business owner instead of my own best employee?” I would tell them, “You just start doing it. You take a vacation.” If you schedule a week-long vacation, if you're not taking vacations, for those listening, you schedule week long vacation and you can't take off a week, you're going to have to figure out how to make everything not fall apart for that week. To go 30 days, that's incredible, 60 days is ridiculous, that's pretty awesome. At that point, you've arrived as owner of the company instead of being your own best employee. I noticed when I would take off time or vacation, I would be surprised by how my team would step up. I'd be surprised by the things leading up to that vacation, more would get done than would get done sometimes in months. There are so many little things that you need to get dialed in. “Oh my gosh, they’re going to be gone for a week. How are we going to live without Jason? We got to get this.” My team would say, “Hey Jason, I need this,” or, “I need to access to this,” or, “I need to know how to do this.” Suddenly everybody's rallying around this idea of taking some stuff off your plate because they need to be able to make sure things don't break and it creates the possibility for you to do that more or forever. Steve: Yeah, and I think its baby steps. I remember when I first read the four-hour work week. I thought Tim Ferriss was a god. I was like, that makes no sense. Jason: Did you almost move to Thailand? Steve: Close, but no, it was just really interesting. I guess from a personal level, having time was even more appealing than being a billionaire I guess to me personally. When I see people like Todd Breen and other people talk at NARPM that would talk about running your business from the beach or not is just very appealing to me. I wanted to grow a self-managing company and it was baby steps. There's this book called Making Money is Killing Your Business and they say it really why. It says the purpose of the business is not to make money, it's to build a business that makes money, like time and money equals wealth. Your business should throw off time and money. Now, if you want to then use that extra time to just pour more time in your business, doesn't mean you got to go live on a beach. You could do other adventures. For me, what's really worked and what I'm super blessed to have now is that it's created space in my life to actually start cultivating the other things that light me up, like music, other things. It gives you those options, but that's what I think in our industry especially in a lot of industries, we want to help people, help them anyway we can to experience that. Jason: They say, “What the world needs is people that are alive” I think as entrepreneurs that's where we feel. We want momentum. That's what we crave. The rest of the world, they're just trying to figure out how to be happy. “If I could just be happy then everything would be great.” It's whether they're happy or sad, depressed or excited, but for entrepreneurs, I feel like our two speeds are momentum or stuck, that's it. It’s momentum or overwhelm. We either feel like we're in complete overwhelm, we’re stuck, we can't move forward or we’re frustrated, or were on fire and alive. That's my version of happy or sad. I want to feel like I'm in momentum and I feel like as entrepreneurs, we get momentum when we give it away. When we create momentum for other people, whether it's our clients or the people in our family, the people around us, when we're creating momentum for other people, we get that sense of momentum, too. Steve: Yeah, and that's something I resonate with and I’ve heard you talk about it Jason. I love that message. I really think that the blue ocean is caring about people more than anyone else, like proactively putting the people in your life in the forefront, figuring out, “Who do I want to be a hero to?” and being a hero is usually used in a reactive way. Jason: Right, like there's a crisis or a problem, now you're going to be a hero. Steve: Right, as opposed to being a proactive hero like spending time and saying, “Okay, who are the most essential people or buckets or groups of people in my life and how can I serve them more deeply and impactfully today,” because the best quote of success I've ever heard is something like become a servant of many. If you wish to become great, learn to become the servant of many. I sometimes get a little jaded in certain groups because you constantly hear the feedbacks, the reduce the cost, the get it all out sourced. I use VAs, I look to reduce cost, I look to get fair fees, so I'm not knocking that, but everyone's playing in that sandbox. I'm very interested in seeing what is everyone else doing and how can I do the opposite because that's one of the ways to become successful that I've learned is that you go zig when they zag. That’s cliché. You can't do that when you're buried in tenant complaints and one-star reviews and a team you have to micromanage. I'm a big believer in hiring young, smart, motivated people and leaving them alone. We're a results-based company at Good Life. You can work from home, you could bring your dog, although actually our manager of our building said we can't anymore. I don't really care, with the exception of a couple like the front desk needs to be there in case someone walks in and things like that, but do your thing. There's a great podcast I heard yesterday on how I built this with Guy Raz where the owner of Patagonia wrote this book called “Let Them Go Surfing” and it's all about that. I think our biggest issues once we get to a certain size is people problems, and then we don't know why we can't keep good people, it’s because we don't paint it in a compelling vision. We micromanage. We don't let them do what they want to do. We try to fit corporate bureaucracies into the more entrepreneurial company that people want to be a part of these days. Would you rather follow just checklists and not have a future or would you rather be able to create your own future? Like I tell my team, “You can become anything with me. The sky's the limit wherever you want to go.” So, I think those are big parts of success. Jason: That's really what we're talking about today. The topic is freedom of time, money, and relationships through better business practices. What are some of the practices that you've implemented at Good Life that you feel like you've created more freedom of time and money? Steve: It starts with the business owner and probably a series of game changers. The first was moving out of my office. I had this epiphany and I was taught this by someone and I told the team, we had a meeting, I said, “I apologize. I've stood in the way of you guy’s future and I apologize for it. When I'm here, I'm the bottle neck. I'm stunting your growth. You can come to me for all the answers,” and the fact is as entrepreneurs if you serve 100 people and say, “Where do you do your best work?” nobody says at their office, who does the best work at their office? Why are we working out of our offices? It's just because that's how it's always been done. I kicked myself out. I don't have a desk at my office on purpose. I used to have the stereotypical nicest office in the corner with the best view, and then it freed up so much space, it helped my team grow. Once I created that space, now I work out of my home, and the first key to greater time, money, and purpose is to create space I believe, for yourself. I came from a place where three or four years ago, my dad always taught me outwork everyone else. I remember one time he came to visit me at a college and he asked me how much I was working, I said about 60 hours a week. He’s like, “60 hours? I work 60 hours, I'm retired. What the hell is wrong with you?” Jason: Step it up Steve. Steve: Yeah, and it's great. I love my dad. His work ethic was the reason I'm here today, because it got me to that. There are seasons of life. I knew there had to be a better way, so when I'd made that decision to move out of my office, I said, “Hey, you guys are going to have a bigger opportunity to move up now.” Some of the other things we did was hiring an operations manager. That was huge. That created space and that was something I look forward, and it took me probably eight or nine months to pull the trigger on that, but the operations manager was huge. Slowly but surely, I went from just being stressed out all the time, not having any space in my life. An over-scheduled entrepreneur has no time to transform. I said, “Alright, I'm going to create some space,” and then all the ideas and all the answers start bubbling to the surface because spiritually we all have all the answers inside of us, just we’re so distracted and so just going that we don't allow it. Jason: We’re preloaded, we're in fight or flight, we're up in our monkey brain, and all the great things, our greatest geniuses as an entrepreneur can't bubble up or can't come through when we're in that state. Steve: Exactly, and so that's time that just forced me to get more time because as an entrepreneur, you can make that decision. Jason: We’re buying time. Every person that we pay on our team, we’re buying time. That's what we're buying. I think the mistake we make as entrepreneurs, a lot of entrepreneurs I see, they go hire based on an org chart. They don't hire based on what they personally need in order to off load or get themselves out of the things that they don't really energetically enjoy. You getting an operations manager if you're a visionary entrepreneur is brilliant, because that's like the yin to the yang. It's the exact opposite personality type of the driven entrepreneur is to have somebody that is systems-minded, process-minded, and that can make sure everything's running. Generally, us entrepreneurs, we’re terrible managers. We think we're great at everything, but we're really terrible managers and usually the operations manager is much better at making sure everything runs smoothly. Steve: It's hard to take off or get more time initially if you don't have the money. The money component is important. I went on a Mastermind trip to Mexico a few years back with a handful of people and we looked at everyone's P&L and that was one of the biggest game changers for me was not only understanding my numbers. I think everyone needs a CFO at least part time or at least some outside eyes on the business is so important. Jason: I have a profit first coach and accountant. I'm not really a big fan of having a CFO in a business. Usually, my take on it is every story I've heard of embezzlement or of challenges it's always like the CFOs, and so they're also the crusher of all hopes and dreams. I don't want somebody making too big of decisions there personally, but I want to be coached, and I want to have input and I want to have insight from a third-party perspective, but I don't want them to have control over my stuff. Steve: Totally. I get that. I don't have a CFO, we use a profit coach. Jason: Yeah, similar thing. Steve: Right, but I found that I wasn't going to build a business I thought I was going to build because I'm a feel guy. Like I learn by doing. Does this feel right and I’ll make a decision, but I make decisions very quickly. I'm a high quick start, so I'll make 10 decisions, eight will be bad, two will be great but in the same time that someone else makes one decision. I sometimes can stay a step ahead, but I had to add some revenues and I wanted them to be value-added revenue sources where everyone was a win-win-win, so things like doing inspections better in charging for them. When you don't charge for something, you usually do them poorly. Every manager that doesn't charge for inspections, I guarantee 90% of you are behind on your inspections. Jason: Let's say that again. I like that concept. If you don't charge for it, you're probably doing it poorly. Steve: Right. I'm a believer in this. Just take inspections for example. You go survey people around NARPM or any property management group and everyone's behind on their inspections so they don't do them right. We send a letter to our clients. We said, “Hey, inspections are actually really important. This is when we identify how well the tenant is taking care of the place is when we get out in front of preventive maintenance and it needs to be done well, so we need to hire someone to do this full time and we want to invest in this X amount we charge. It’s going to probably save you three times at least that amount by getting out in front of some of this stuff,” so that was a win-win and our clients loved it. Maybe they didn't want to get charged initially, but once they saw the improved inspection, once they saw the improved communication and results, that was a big win. Then just some other ones that we added in. I think you got to keep the investor fees-friendly. The worst thing we can do as managers is fee our owners to death and they’d get out of the business. Ultimately, the freedom of time, money, relationships, and purpose is what we want, but it's a human need. It's what your clients want, too. So, we have a unique position as property managers, realtors, and investors ourselves in a lot of cases to help people build wealth through real estate. You're a manager and you make it easy, because if you don't make it easy, they burn out and they sell, but if they hold that house specially in San Diego for 30 years, that’s all you have to do and you've set your family up for life. They burn out, so we have a big position, a big part to play here. Jason: I love it, and I love that it’s like a mantra, having others build through real estate, and ultimately what property managers could be allowed towards doing. It’s not just managing a property. If your interests are in line with theirs, which that's their goal. Their goal is to build some wealth, otherwise, why would they be holding on to that property. Steve: Exactly. There's different ways to do that. Right now, we're looking at some other states to buy cash flow property and figure out how to have our owners follow us into some of these other markets. I think with technology these days, that's what all the venture people are doing, how to just pop up shops anywhere. That's something that's exciting to me right now because in San Diego it doesn't make sense to buy an $800,000 house that rents for $2800. We're sitting on some stuff when the market turns for San Diego, but yeah, there's different opportunities out there. Jason: Alright, cool. What should we talk about next? Steve: You know what I'm interested in? I actually thought of this today, and there's some things I've been thinking about doing that I procrastinate on. You know the saying… Jason: I think every business owner can say that. Steve: I know right? Jason: I call it the to-die list. We all have to do list of stuff. Just last week, I have my weekly commitments and I realized I was carrying all of these things over from week-to-week. I'm the guy that says to my clients, “If there's anything on your to do list for more than two weeks, you're not the person that should be doing it.” That's the problem. Yes, we all tend to do that as entrepreneurs. We tend to hold on to things instead of finding the right person to do them or giving it up somebody else. Steve: That’s so true. Jason: Talk about the to die list. Steve: Yeah, the to die list. I was thinking about this today. Two examples of things I have been procrastinating on. One, I don't want to answer email, anymore. I literally want to have email leave my life. I have gotten email down to just like 10 minutes a day at the end of the day, have an assistant, but literally that is still bugging me. I once got this really inspiring auto responder from this really smart cool guy, let’s see if I can find it. Jason: I don't deal with email anymore? Steve: He said, “Thank you for your message. Perhaps you are overwhelmed by email. In fact, last year I sent 43,742 emails, read and review countless more so in order to serve our stakeholders much more efficiently, I have asked my highly capable assistant that’s in New York to review, assign and reply all my email request moving forward,” and then it says some other stuff. That's something I want to do, but it's big and scary, and yeah, I know I'll probably have to respond to some emails, but I'm talking about eliminating it more. I'm like, “Why don’t I just try that? Why do I have to make this decision I procrastinate on forever? Why don't I just try that?” I think it comes back to we don't want to fail like that, we're always raised with, “There is no try, it's to do or die,” or whatever. You don't try, you either do it or you don't, but it's like, “Why can't I just try that? I have an assistant. Why don’t I run that for two or three weeks and see how it goes?” The other thing and I'm sure you've probably thought of this, Jason, is like Gary V, having maybe a semi full-time person doing vlogs, recording not just every few days, like every day. I'm just sitting on that and I'm like, “Well, why don't I just try it for like a freaking month?” I think there's so much possibility with that and I wanted to see what you thought because I'm like, “I don't have to commit to it.” There's so much stuff. Even hiring someone. I was thinking about hiring a GM or an operations manager for eight or nine months. What if I just said, “Hey, let's try it.” I mean this isn’t Canada or some other places where I don't think you can fire people. Try it, hire the person, and if it doesn't work out, let them go. Jason: Yeah. Let's go back to the email and then we can go the other thing. Here's how I identify stuff. I mentioned this on the previous episode, but I personally will do a time study probably about once a quarter and if I bring on a new team member that takes something off my plate, because how I identify what I need to get off my plate is by doing a time study. I have to be accountable. Where's my time actually going and which things are low dollar an hour work, which things are things that I don't enjoy. I actually write a plus or minus sign next to each thing that I'm doing, whether it energizes me or it drains me, and then identify the things that are tactical or strategic, things that are self-care versus family time. I have a whole system, I take clients through for doing time studies. When I do this, that helps me get clarity for what I need to get rid of. I gave up email a long time ago because I hated email. It was always a minus sign, it was always tactical, it was never like my hopes and dreams were coming true when I was writing an email. I don't even look at my email. So, if you've emailed me, I'm sorry, I don't look at it. My assistant will take care of the email. She reads it. If she has any questions, she sends me a message through a walkie talkie app, because I don't want to type to her. She'll send me a voice message through Voxer. We use Voxer and I use it with coaching clients, she will send me a Voxer voice message and say “Jason, what do you think, how should we respond to this email. They're asking this.” I say, “Just tell them this, this and this, but say it nicer than I just said.” Then she’ll take care of it, and she's asking me questions throughout the day. We also do daily huddles as a team and that's usually where she gets most of her questions in. I say, “Is anybody stuck on anything?” She's like, “Yeah, did you get my message about this?” “No, I wasn't paying attention.” “Okay, what do you need?” I answer it and she can respond to the email for me. She's gotten really good at understanding over time, she gets better and better at knowing my voice, knowing what I would say and she takes care of more and more and more. Every day she'll give me a short list, “Here are the emails I don't know what to do with. You need to take care of these,” and I begrudgingly will deal with them within a day or two. That's how it works. [...] then I’ll talk with them and move them forward, but outside of that, usually she hands it off to my team or has somebody else in the team deal with it. If it's support-related, I think most of my clients have learned that they're not getting a fast response by coming to me directly. They get their best response by emailing our support email address or system and so I think every property manager needs to do the same. Initially, when you're small you're the guy. They probably have your cell phone number. Tenants owners, everybody, and eventually you change your phone number and you create some barriers and protections, you have to educate and teach people how you want them to treat you, and you’re going to teach your customers what are the right channels and you have to teach your team what are the right channels. My days are pretty quiet. Steve: I love that. That's super inspiring. You fired me up even more and I love how you said it's tactical. It's very transactional-tactical. I want to be playing in the sandbox of transformational. I feel like I'm retired now because I do what I want and I'm blessed to say that. There's been a lot of hard work behind that, but I'm to the point to where I'm not going to do stuff that doesn't light me up and there's a small subset of tasks like creating content—podcast is one of them—that I could do all day and I have endless energy for. That's where I add the most value. So, the bigger the impact on people that I can have is going to be when I'm fired up and passionate and not dragging off of email, but I think we don't give ourselves permission to do that. You saying that, I'm all in now. I was 80% in, Jason, now I'm all in. I hope some listeners are all in to move forward. That's what I love about podcasts and other things with so much being shared these days. A lot of times we think things, or we know things internally, or we feel things a certain way, but we don't give ourselves permission to actually say that or feel that in public because sometimes we just need someone else to say it to give us the courage. I've noticed that happening so much lately that I finally got pissed, and I'm like, “You know what? I'm making a list of everything that I believe in whole-heartedly, that I think is a little off mainstream maybe.” That way I can have it in writing and I'm just going to start saying these things because I'm tired of being, “Oh yeah, and I felt that way, too,” but I never said anything. Jason: I mention this on the previous episode, too, that I've been really opinionated in the past and I've realized that I think I'm a little more humble now that I realized my way isn't always the exact right way for everyone, so I'm learning. I was just in Columbus for a week and one of the things that really hit me hard is that I've been really opinionated and I think it's important to put out things more as observations rather than gospel truth. Somebody may love email or somebody may hate doing podcast stuff. Everybody is different and I think everybody's perception is different, everybody's experiences as to what works or doesn't work in marketing could be different, their market might be different. There are so many variables involved, so I think moving forward, my content is a lot more observational because I've realized I was attracting clients or creating monsters in the industry that are hyper-opinionated and the hyper-opinionated people become like, “Oh my God, [...],” but the problem is they create a lot of negativity in the industry. They become the rampant [...] guys that are heartless, that want to crush all the hopes and dreams of every tenant on the planet. We need to be careful in any business or any industry in being too opinionated because what ends up happening is we end up attracting most opinionated people. Those are the people that turn on you. Those are the owners you don't want eventually. Those are the people that give you the negative reviews when one little thing goes wrong. I want open minded people, and these are the clients that I’ve loved the most, but I was attracting less of them per capita because of the message that was so in your face. “This is the [...], do this,” and I was just so strong willed that way and I realize now that that creates its own monster. I think it's important to share though, honestly, these little things that we have, that are weird about is or that are woo-woo that we feel like the rest of the world will judge. To say. “This is me, this is how I am, this is my experience,” and yeah I think you when we let our freak flag fly, so to speak, there are people that run with it. As long as we're not, “Hey, this is the gospel truth. This is the only way to do it,” we're not going to turn off so much so many of the people that don't resonate. They might go, “You know, Jason, that’s cool that you're into that weird stuff, but I'm more of a practical guy and I don’t resonate with that, but I like a lot of the stuff you say.” If I say, “This is the only way to do it,” I'm forcing them to make a choice to go all in and do everything my way or the highway. Steve: Your coach helped you nail that idea. I had that opposite issue. I think the issue for me was that I didn't want to ever come off as opinionated. I'm scared almost having an opinion because I'm like, “Do your thing, man,” so I’m always quick to anything I believe in. I'm quick to say, “Do what works for you. This is just my journey. Do what works for you.” I think like attracts like and that's a really cool observation that you started attracting all these opinionated people. The coaching thing, I love that you have coaches and you’re a coach yourself because the power of coaching has changed my life. Strategic coach, I work with Jason Goldberg. Every time I have a call with him, I transform. It's really crazy. If there's one thing I'm super high on right now, it's co-creation. Co-creation is the super power that nobody's talking about and I've experienced it in many ways. First through music. Although I normally do music on my own and I'll just write songs. When I get in the room with the right people, they don't even have to be a great musician, it's just that the energy. If we’re vibrating on the same frequency, things just come out so great. I played with this rapper the other day. Two of our new songs are two of my favorite songs I've recorded in the past year. Back when I had a casual mastermind that we used to do, helping each other co-create, kick this process back to you, now you kick it back to me and blah, blah, blah, everything just accelerated. So, I think outside eyes on the business, coaches, casual masterminds, paid masterminds, whatever it is, I think the more we're interacting with others and having a sounding board, the faster we're going to get to where we're going and the more transformative the experience will be. Jason: I agree. To touch on that, every single person you'll notice, everybody listening will know this is true. You can talk about it in terms of inner energy or spirituality or whatever, but every single person that you’re around brings out a different side of you. There are people that when I'm around them, I feel I'm freaking hilarious, I’m the funniest guy on the planet. They’re laughing at everything I say. It's awesome. Then there's people that I'm around that I feel I'm super mental, analytical, and logical. That's how they perceive me and that's what they bring out in me. And there are people that feel I'm this emotional sensitive person. My kids would probably say, “No, he’s Mr. Analytical.” There are different people that bring out a different side to us. This is also why I have a strong introverted side. I need space away from people to reconnect with who I am and to make I'm me. I feel when we're around other people, part of it is how they perceive and see us, brings that out in us, it allows us to be [...] energy and yes absolutely there's this connection and a certain combination of different people, or different energies, or different whatever that will create a different music. You've got the Beatles, for example. These four guys came together and they created all kinds of interesting sounds and music that had a really strong impact and all them wrote songs [...], but on their own, none of them really created as strong of a situation without the others. Just the energy between Paul McCartney and John Lennon was pretty magical. Steve: Totally, and country artists or country songwriters write typically with at least two but usually three or four people in the same room. I think there's parallels because I can speak from experience. I was constantly, with the exception of going to maybe two conferences a year, I was at the desk in my office, head down, genius with 1000 helpers, although I wasn't a genius that is just a saying I’ve heard by any stretch of the imagination. Jason: The emperor with no clothes. Steve: Right, the fool with too much control, and that’s the thing now. I'm in charge, but I'm not in control and that’s self-freeing. It's the people, my people that are awesome are in control and the cool thing now to get to the impact or the purpose part that is super firing me up these days is that I've gotten to a point now to where my job with Good Life is to take care of my team. It's to figure out how can I make their lives better. How can I figure out, what are their dangers, their opportunities, their strengths? Where do they want to be in three years? How can I cultivate that? How can I make it so all of them would run through a wall for me and take a bullet for me because if they would do that, they will treat my money like their money, my company like their company. The reason I started really researching how, I was like how does the military sail hundreds of 18-year-olds across the sea and set up forward military bases. It's just mind boggling, and I read Extreme Ownership. It’s a great book, some other books, but you talk about decentralized command. The top gives them the mission and then that leader gives them the mission and then the lieutenant, I’m butchering correct words. Jason: The hierarchy? Steve: Yeah, the hierarchy, but they are allowed to come up with the game plan and the battle plan. One of my jobs at Good Life is to make it okay to fail. To be okay to test things and screw things up and get beat up over it. Jason: Because if they're afraid to fail, guess what happens? They start hiding crap from you. Then there's all the secret stuff going on then there’s interoffice politics, there’s backbiting. People have to be allowed to fail and not feel they're going to have their head chopped off. Otherwise, you have a business that’s unsafe for you. I love the idea of you giving up control, I've given up control over my email. I don't even know what's getting sent out half the time, but I've created trust and I trust her. She's very cautious in how she does it. I've given up my schedule. I was in Vegas last week, the week before that I think it was in Columbus, a week before that I was I think in Phoenix. I don't choose anymore. My assistant, she's like, “Here’s a speaking opportunity. You're going to go speak here.” She sets up these podcast episodes, everything I've given up autonomy on my time, but I still blackout Mondays and Fridays so I can do some of the things I want and then I have my weekends, but you give up control. The higher you move up in your business, the less control you have and the more you give to the people around you. I just do what they tell me to do. I show up. My job is to support them. I love what you were saying that you've transitioned because I think as we start out as entrepreneurs and we get our first few team members. We’re always asking the question and frustrated why can't my team just do what I say. Then eventually we transition and we transform and evolve and realizing they are some of our best assets, they're supporting us, they're better at us in things that they do, they love their areas of expertise and now it's, how can I support them? How can I help them get ahead? How can I make it easier? How can I help them avoid burnout? You also threw out the words transformational and transactional, and I think those are two very different leadership styles that I think are important to point out. I think what you’ve just been describing is you're trying to create a team that is transformational. Transformational leadership is where you give them an outcome and say, “That's where I want to go,” and they say, “Great,. We'll figure it out, we'll help you get there.” Transactional leadership is, “We're going to go here and here's exactly how we’re going to do it and we’ll do it my way,” and then there's no buy-in, there’s no ownership, they don't get to fail because if they do what you tell them to do and it doesn't work, whose fault is it? It’s mine, but that means they can't win too. If they can't fail, they can never win, and you're never going to keep A players on your team that never get to win. This is why people get so frustrated by millennials, because they're dinosaur business owners, they're running their business like assholes, they're tyrants, they're trying to micromanage their team, tell everybody to do it, and it’s transactional. They're saying, “I'm giving you money, just do what I tell you to do. I paid you, do it.” Millennials don't stand for that. They value themselves more. They want something beyond just being told what to do and getting a paycheck. Believe me, I have team members on my team that would just be there to show up and [...] and get their check. They don't believe in you, they don’t believe in the company, they're hypers, and they go home and complain about you, and the job, and they live for the weekends. But if team members enjoy the work and they feel they have freedom and they have autonomy, you have their discretionary time. They're thinking about you after work. “How can we make this better?” They’re thinking about you on the weekends. They do extra stuff because they're in love with what they're doing. Steve: Totally. Now, you said that really well and I think what comes up for me as the EMyth, which was a very transformational book to use that word for me. Checklist, at certain points at Good Life, we are a results based company, but a lot of times I get pulled to these meetings it’s like this person is not… they checked the box and they didn't do it or they didn't check the box and they should have, you know I mean? What's the results? Is the days on market good? Where is his KPIs? Although they’re good, we have this back and forth. So, here's something that I want to stick my flag in the sand as something that's not conventional and goes away from my instinct which is let them figure it out. I don't care about the checklist. We're not all going to be McDonald's. Honestly, I'm not trying to scale my business across the whole country, if I was, I probably would have to make sure everybody checks that box, but I'm really interested in the small giants approach, where it's going deep with the smaller amount of people, still having a big business that makes a big impact. I say, “Hey, look at the results. Make it a results-based company because they can own it. They have more ownership in that regard.” Something else that comes to mind was, I remember I used to walk into the office when I used to go to the office every day and people would be on YouTube and I would freaking be so mad. They're watching some videos, I would stew about, I wouldn’t say anything right away. I would go in my office and fume. Then I remember I talked to a friend about it, someone I respect, a mentor. He's like, “Man, you got to let that go. If they get the results, who cares how many cat videos they're watching. You want a fun environment. If you go lay the hammer down on that, you're going to not have the team that you need to have to make your dreams come true.” Someone I respected telling me that was me letting go of a helium balloon. All this weight was just lifted and I was free. I didn't have to micromanage. Jason: I think it's interesting because sometimes usually the person or the team that gets really caught up on the checklist and everything being done a certain way, that's usually the operations person. They love that stuff, and it needs to be done this way, but I think that's our job as the visionaries to remind them it's the outcome that matters. It's the end result that matters. The end result is making sure we have a profitable business. The end result is to make sure that we're honoring our customers and we're treating people well. These sort of things, if we want to get to the outcome. How we get to that outcome, there's probably a million ways we can do it, and whether a certain box wasn't checked or certain thing didn't end up happening. Well, maybe that process is too cumbersome. Maybe it needs to be supplied, as long as getting a result. There’s always this balance. You can have a 30-point checklist that somebody has to complete, but if you can get it down to 10 steps and they can actually do it every time and it doesn't feel it’s in the way, then you're better off than the people that are operating without looking at a process document because most people don’t. They'll do it once and then just skip it. You need something that they can live with on an ongoing basis. I think that's really important to point out what you said is that it's the results, that results don't lie, it's the outcome that really matters. So, I think if you take a step back and say, “Well, what outcome are we going to achieve? Somebody's talking about checklist not being done well. What was the outcome we were trying to achieve? What's the outcome? Okay, did we achieve it? Who was responsible for it and how do we know whether it got done or not? Okay great, well then we're good, maybe we should change the process.” Steve: Exactly. Those are some things, but the exciting part is having freedom of time, money, relationships, the people you work with, the people you get to do business with, I know you talk a lot about firing the bad clients. That was an amazing experience, our profit went way up when we fired the wrong types of clients and getting really centered on our core values because then it's easy to hire and fire people and hire clients based on your core values. Ours are really simple. It’s RPG: be reliable, be positive, and be a go giver. It's based off that book, The Go Giver, and it's just simple. We used to have seven or eight, but then I couldn't even remember what they were and they felt weird, so we made it really simple. Now, my business development manager just goes down the list, like, “Are they reliable? Were they at the appointment on time? Did they send you the thing they said they were going to send you?” It just makes this compass of how to do business with the type of people that are going to make you successful. Jason: That's one of the things that coach clients through is to get clear on their three, maybe four core values because you can have a list to 10, you can have 20, but really your team aren’t going to remember all of those and you can usually boil it down to three core things. For us, ours are a little bit different. One of my core values is just transparency. That's originally why I call my company Open Potion and in just creating transparency I think in the industry has created some various significant shifts. I think also for [...] just how I operate. That's a value that is central to me and I want my team to espouse and really our companies are just extensions of us. It's my Iron Man suit that I get the strap on every day, that's my team and everything around me. It increases my capacity. It makes me feel a super human. I'm getting more done. I've got India handling my email and Adam handing fulfillment. I feel like I’m a superhuman. Steve: He’s awesome, by the way. Jason: Thank you. I think of other things I'm really big on is just eliminating constraints and looking for the big constraints that are preventing momentum, so that I can create momentum. It’s all about creating momentum for my clients and for myself. I think it's going to be different for everybody. With all the different things that we are inspired or that resonates with us and I think every business owner needs to get clear on really what their values are because you can't have it. There are only two types of team members. There are hiders we talked about that are hiding and they are living for the weekend and they show up for paycheck or there's believers. The only way you can have believers is if you have something for them to believe in. If you want believers on your team and you want clients that believe in you, you have to have values that you make transparent or clear to the marketplace or to your team so that they can they can buy in to them. It's amazing to see companies get to a large size without even having that in place. Once you get it in place, I imagine the shift is traumatic for the culture. Steve: And if there's one last thing I would leave the listeners with that’s going to be probably the most impactful thing for me in the last 24 months was, I had this epiphany that everything worthwhile lives on the other side of fear. I knew that instinctually and I've been told that before. You know how you can read a book, that's why they say re-read the books that you love because you read it four times and then you'll start to actually really get it. I knew that, but I didn't really get it and it hit me, it became crystal clear. I was like, “Okay, if I want my dreams to happen and be fulfilled and live a life that I want, I have to figure out what scares me and do that.” I have a two-part test. Does it scare me, part one. Part two, does my heart tell me to do it? If the answer to both of those is yes, you do it. I even made a wristband that says, “What scares you, do that.” I don't have it on me right now, I took it off. Just to remind me and it goes back to the try thing. All my biggest leaps came after I did something I wasn't prepared for and I was scared to do, like going to that mastermind. I couldn’t afford it, it was really expensive. Hiring my operations manager, hiring a marketing manager. I gave a talk recently at PM Grow that I thought I was going to be broke after I hired my marketing person because I didn't think I have the margin and we ended up having our best year ever. It comes back to the try thing. Figure out what scares you, do that, try it, whatever it is. I think that's where we make our biggest leaps and that's what sets people apart from living a life that they intended to having regrets, which is the number one regrets of the dying is that they didn't live a life true to themselves, instead they lived a life other people expected them to live. That's the thing that scares me more than anything in the world and so I’m passionate about sharing that message. Jason: Steve, it’s been awesome having you on the show. I'll second that. It really is that voice deep down that is that voice of truth, and also you can ask yourself deep down, “Do I really want to be doing this?” Deep down, “Should I be doing this thing?” Deep down, “Does this really resonates with me,” and if the answer isn't a, “Hell yes,” then there's a lack of congruency and I think that's where you're saying your heart is yes. I think [...] of something that isn't working is the death of something inside you. It means change, something has to die. You want to know what's really interesting? I've noticed a lot of this on [...]. The scariest thing to kill or to allow to die is the fantasy of something great. I’ll explain this, I've noticed this a lot lately with business owners. They have this fantasy of having a really healthy business, or having a business that is growing, or a business that they contribute, or they get to do great things, and that fantasy is so exciting to them and juicy to them that they don't want to take action on it, because to take action on it means they have to kill it. They have the brutally pull out the knife and slaughter their fantasy the second they start taking action towards it, because now reality sets in. Reality is never going to be at that level that the fantasy was, but it's better because it's real. I usually use the example of my friend in high school that wanted to be a rock star, which sounds like you. You had to eventually give up the fantasy of being a rock star or you have to choose into it fully. He had this fantasy of being a rock star and he would buy expensive guitars and amplifiers, and he wouldn't take guitar lessons. He won’t love the fantasy of having this fantasy of being a rock star and as long as he can buy cool guitars and keep imagining this future that would never happen, he was happy, but he didn't want to go sleep in his car and do gigs, tour round, work his butt off, and practice nine hours a day. He didn’t want to do any of that. That's reality. Reality means some work. Initially, if you're listening to this and you’re like, “This is great. Jason and Steve have these companies and making all this money, they've got their assistants. It must be so nice for them.” They're probably listening and going, “I don't get it. I'm not there.” You may have to be the person listening that you right now, it's time for you to double down. It's time for you to hustle. It's time for you to do stuff that scares you. It's time for you to get off of the fantasy of whatever you're hoping of doing or hoping of starting to really get out there and do the work, the hard work to make it happen and you listen to that voice, you get to that place. You get to that place eventually where you're now are able to focus on your team. You're able to be a coach and a mentor to people around you instead of the person trying to figure out how to get everybody to do everything. I think that transition really involves taking those scary leaps. I think every coach that I've hired was a leap. None of them were cheap. Every coach I've hired, every program or training I bought into, some of them I couldn't even afford at the time. They were risks, but I knew deep down it was a yes. I just knew it was a yes and it terrified me. I think for those that are really analytical and logical, they're like, “I don't get it Jason,” but for anybody else listening. If you have that voice deep down inside that is saying, “Hey, this is what's next for you. You've known it. You've been avoiding it and you're trying to figure out how to make it all feel safe, take the leap, and jump and do it. Worst case scenario, you're going to learn some powerful lessons.” I had lessons where I spent a lot of money and it didn't work out. A lot of money. I've probably lots of money making some bad choices, but I wouldn't trade those lessons and I've learned from them. Steve: Yeah, and money is just one side of it. Making a decision to be a different person, or to take more time off, or to go into a completely different field, that's probably the easiest one to do is scratch a check for something. Sometimes our way of being is probably what gets in the way of most of our issues because you can't solve the problem with the same mind that created it. Creating some space and getting clear always helps, getting clear on what you're trying to do and the life you're trying to live. At the end of the day, we’re the writer, director, producer of our own store and I love how you said, you kill off the fantasy because that's true. It's scary. I think that's why a lot of people don't delegate it or it takes so long to delegate because it's scary. If you give that up, what are you going to do? Then you actually might have to sit with yourself and figure out what's next and nobody wants to be alone with themselves. That's a scary place. It's through the work, it's through conquering those demons slowly over time that I've seen good results, so it's a process. Take it easy on yourself and do what's doable. I beat myself up a lot over the years and it's I think we're all pretty ambitious. Don't kill yourself. Life's too short. Just have fun with. Do what’s doable. Jason: Well, Steve, it’s been awesome having on the

I have a very special guest for you today! Frankly, I'm very shocked that we are able to get someone with such incredible stature in this show. SHE’S AMAZING! She's an incredible individual and we're all very lucky to have her here. I'm not gonna say the name of her MLM. I wanna keep it very company neutral so this remains a PURE marketing knowledge place. She… Has helped open 40 countries for the network marketing company she's a part of. Has a downline of over FOUR AND A HALF MILLION people! Is an INCREDIBLE person and she has a podcast called MLM Game Changer. We're VERY privileged to have her on here today. Teresa, welcome to the show. THE QUEEN OF OFFLINE RECRUITING Teresa Harding: Thank you! I am REALLY excited to be here and I honestly feel really honored because you’ve been a mentor for a lot of the things that I've learned. Thank you for having me! Steve: That's awesome, thanks so much. People may not know you yet or have listened to your podcast yet… How did you get started in this game? Teresa: Oh, my goodness, I HATED network marketing. I thought it was almost EVIL. There were experiences where people tricked you into coming to a meeting at their house… They invite you to dinner, that whole thing, and I couldn't stand it! I was not interested AT ALL. https://youtu.be/aqn-PxmrYGE My sister invited me to a class, and I love my sister. We're very close. I knew I was going to go support her but I told my husband, "Look, would you please come with me? I have to go to this thing because I have to support her." So I went and I was SURPRISED by the product. As you guys all know… Network marketing companies often have pretty amazing products. Steve: Amazing products! Teresa: I didn't know that at the time… Ours is a health product. My niece at the time was two years old… She started having some pretty serious neurological problems that were pretty scary, and someone told my sister, "Oh, you should try this product"... And I thought, "Oh, brother, are you kidding me?" The support and what I saw was actually UNBELIEVABLE… So I started researching and looking into it and ended up WANTING the product but NOT gonna the business. I started using the product and helping people with the product and I started getting a little paycheck but I WASN’T trying to build. BUILDING AN OFFLINE RECRUITING BUSINESS So, I thought, "Fine. I'll do this for three months. I am not talking to my friend and I am not talking to my family." Steve: Right! Teresa: In that, I think we're kindred spirits. I have heard SO MANY of your trainings! That's how I got involved, fell in love with it and now, LOVE… Helping people Network marketing Steve: When did it start becoming a REAL thing for you? You're like, "Man, this is actually something that I wanna go full-time into and get four and a half million people"? Obviously, it didn't happen all at once… But what did that look like? Teresa: And of course, it doesn't happen by yourself. It really takes A LOT of people working hard together and I have a lot of amazing leaders on my team, as you can imagine. Once I decided I'm gonna do this for three months… I'm kind of a go-getter and I always reach my goals. My goals are always crazy high where I constantly have naysayers telling me it can't be done, and I just go ahead and do it anyway… I don't always reach them as soon as I want. I decided to try it for 3 months and then I went after it… It was working and it was UNBELIEVABLE! NETWORK MARKETING IS HELPING PEOPLE I quickly discovered that it really IS about helping people. I built mine offline at first and it's just been amazing. And I absolutely that you don't pressure people. It's not about chasing, hunting people down. We are not the hunter and they are not the target. Steve: Yeah, absolutely. One of the biggest questions I get, and I'm sure you get it all the time, is… “How long have you been at it?” And I feel like the thing that they're asking is, “Is it really worth it for me to go after that?” And they're trying to find some logical reason to release themselves from the pressure of moving forward. With that backdrop, and everyone now knowing how I feel about that… How long have you been at it? Teresa: I've been doing this for 11 years. At first, I was doing it part-time because I was a stay-at-home mom. I'd never really been involved in business before. Of course, I had skills and I had been to college… But I wanted to raise my own kids. So, I did that and this came about right as my kids were getting a little bit older. I would only do it part-time while they were at school or at their sports practices and things like that. NETWORK MARKETING PART TIME For the first several years, it was very part-time… But I'm an overachiever, which is fun for me. I would get A LOT done in the time that I had but then… As it got to a point where I could spend more time on it and I was able to do it full-time, I remember the day thinking, "Okay. Now, let's see what we can do." At that point, I was a pretty high rank (third from the highest rank that you could achieve in the company). I'd achieved A LOT… Steve: That's so awesome. Teresa is 100% the queen of offline building. You have this down to a SCIENCE. You're so good at it, you're known for it. You have your own programs on that as well! Did you learn those things? I'm sure some of it was discovered along the way… Better tactics and methods on recruiting... How do you start getting really good at that? Because MOST don't. Teresa: First of all, you have to know… I am EXTREMELY opinionated about how it should be done. The way that people pressure and try to approach all their friends and family… I did not agree with that AT ALL! We DO have people make their list… But the way they approach is absolutely about WHAT they know that person actually NEEDS. The thing I fell in love with when I found your online stuff was that we had been trying to figure out online for the last four years and we HAD figured it out… But not to the extent that you had. NETWORK MARKETING ONLINE When I found your stuff I freaked out because I was like, "Oh, my goodness." We HAD figured it out, but that was the icing on the cake! We've geeked out over you… Over ClickFunnels… All of that. The way that you teach online, that's exactly how you should be doing it offline. All the things that you do… Attract the people who are interested Don't go after the people who are not interested Not trying to get every single person on your team If you're worrying more about the other person than yourself… You're meeting their needs and solving their problems. If you can solve their problems, you'll continue that journey together. But if you CAN’T, you can still be friends. You don't need to bring up that stuff all the time. The best compliment I ever got was when a neighbor of mine came to me needing something for a health situation. She didn't use our product, but she knew of our product. She needed to find something for her daughter and asked if we had anything. I told her “Yes”, I was HELPING her. She said, "There are a lot of people in our neighborhood who do your business… My husband said, I don't want you talking to anyone else, I want you talking to Teresa because she won't hound us, and she won't bug us." Steve: WOW! Teresa: That's probably the most powerful compliment because that is EXACTLY how you build offline… NETWORK MARKETING ONLINE VS OFFLINE You do the same things that we do ONLINE… There are just some tricks to figuring out how to do it online, in the same way there are some tricks to figuring out how to do it offline… It's just it's faster online, which is so exciting as we've gotten into that! Steve: It's funny because the way I think about the Internet… There are a few very easy plays (like little football plays) that I think about. "I'm gonna run that play, I'm gonna run that play." And I just know it just works because it adds value before you go follow up with asking them to actually join. What's one of your favorite methods for offline growth? Teresa: We actually have some scripts that we give people for different types of situations… So many people say too much, or say it wrong… The nice thing about online is you write it in the funnel, then it's there and you don't mess up. The hard part about offline is you need to LEARN how to say things… Ultimately it’s about: Asking them questions Finding out what it is that they need In the online space, we try to touch those emotions that make them feel like we are talking to them… That's the exact same thing we're doing OFFLINE where we're finding out WHAT their needs are. That's ONE thing that we do… OFFLINE RECRUITING TECHNIQUES The second thing we do is, any time I meet someone… I am not trying to bring up my MLM. I am trying to get to know them, making new friends… It's fun for me! I make new friends! I travel a lot internationally and I make new friends. When we're talking, two things ALWAYS come up… Your business or what you do for work Health If I saw a movie that I wanted to tell you about… I'm not gonna make any money off that movie. But if it was so awesome, I'm going to want to tell you about it. "Steve, oh, my God, have you seen that movie? It's awesome, you have to go and see that movie." I would do it the same way whether or not I'm gonna make money off of that. If it's really something that I feel that way about and I could help people with, then that's how we approach it. Steve: That makes total sense, it is very natural with that approach. That's very cool. One of the reasons why I started doing MLM on the Internet is because I was so afraid to talk face-to-face with people. In that four and a half million you must have someone who's fearful of talking face-to-face? So I was like, "Well, I'm kind of a nerd. I'll go create a system, but that's really nerdy and most don't go do that." For all the people who are like, "Alright, Teresa, how do I go do it? I've got Steven's stuff but I still wanna talk face-to-face." What do you say to those people who are just super scared of talking face-to-face, how do you get over that fear? OFFLINE RECRUITING = FACE-TO-FACE Teresa: There's at least ONE person in four million… Probably every single one has been there… Even when I was super confident and had been presenting in front of tens of thousands of people… I would still get in front of someone on the airplane and all of a sudden something would happen and I would wanna be careful not to make it awkward. Steve: Yeah, just clam up in the air… Teresa: That's ALWAYS a thing… We: Teach people Do role Have a script that is super simple and not awkward, that anybody can use … You could totally use it for your company. It says HOW to offer the sample (or whatever you're gonna do) and it's so powerful. IT WORKS. Our numbers increase significantly when we use this script. It tells you what to say to them if they had a: BAD experience GOOD experience We have spent so many marketing dollars on figuring out HOW soon should you respond to someone. For example, with your email sequence, you know EXACTLY what days you're sending those out. Steve: Boom, BOOM, BOOM! Teresa: It's the EXACT same thing! You give them the sample, and three days is waaay too long. If you do it the next day, they feel like you're hounding them. They're like, "Why won't you leave me alone now?" FOLLOWING UP WITH PEOPLE IN NETWORK MARKETING TWO DAYS is perfect, and you warn them ahead of time. For example, I always tell them I’m going to contact them, tell them why, and tell them how. That sounds like it can be so dramatic, but listen to this, it's super simple… So if I said, "Hey, Steve, you've got this thing, okay? Try it like this and I'll give you a call in a couple of days to see how it's going." Steve: So it's seeded… I don't feel pressure. Teresa: Now when I do call you, you're not going. "Why is she calling me again?" You're going, "She is taking such awesome care of me. I can't believe she's taking the time to do this with me." Just little things like that. I've seen your trainings on sales pages and the wording that you do. It's exactly the same thing, it really is. Steve: That's so cool! Yeah, many people have asked how do they do offline. It's the same... I'm not going to build a funnel, I'm just gonna do it my way. That IS a funnel. It doesn't matter whether it's online or offline. Funnels existed when the first caveman traded a rock for a piece of whatever. Teresa: That's why I was so excited when I found your stuff. You took the real way to do network marketing that is truly helpful, not pressure… And you put it online. You didn't change it and mess up the system. THE BEAUTY OF ONLINE RECRUITING The beauty of online is you can do it faster and reach more people. If you can spend ad dollars, that's even better. I have made more stupid mistakes than anybody network marketing… I am quite sure. So I know my stuff inside and out. I was learning the online stuff and digging even deeper, and going, “How fun to connect the two, how fun to put it together and go, wow, this is honestly moving into the 21st century!” Steve: It's taken FOREVER! We’VE got a lot of up-lines that are AFRAID of it… When did you start reaching out for assistance and help and growth? Were you consuming books and CDs and courses? What kind of training did you consume at the beginning? Teresa: When we first started, I'd never done this before… I didn't have any connections in the industry and I had not had any success myself because I was BRAND NEW… So I went to the owners of our company (who are pretty renowned) they're amazing in the industry. But they're not used to doing what we do... But they were EXTREMELY helpful. I learned as much as I could and I basically went to them and said, "Okay, you tell me who's making the most in network marketing and you tell me what they're doing, and then I will try to mimic that." NETWORK MARKETING BOOKS Then started reading tons of business books, tons of network marketing books… I can't even share my gratitude enough for the people who come before who spent their lifetime learning all these things so that I can learn in a book what it took them years and years to learn. There's always great information… But I'm pretty opinionated about that whole pushy network marketing attitude. And there are some books out there that are very much that way. You will NEVER hear me advocating that. I absolutely don't think it's necessary. Obviously, it's not. I believe that that's ONE of the reasons our team is so massive… Because it doesn't feel that way. I devour books and I read like crazy. I was on Goodreads, and they had this reading challenge last year where they said, "How many books do you wanna read?" We were living in China and I thought, “This is a busy year, so I probably better just say one book a month, even though I know I read a lot.” By the end of the year, I had read 40 books. Steve: What happened to your team growth when you started consuming all that training? Teresa: Oh, my goodness! What happens is, your team grows exponentially! OFFLINE RECRUITING TO ONLINE RECRUITING Not just in relation to how much you're learning, because you know what it's like… The more you grow your business, the more you have to face things about yourself that you didn't necessarily wanna face. Steve: And it sucks. Teresa: It's weird… It's like you hit these lids that you don't realize you're hitting until you up-level your skill in that area… You become a better leader, you learn something more that allows you to lead better, grow bigger, and progress more. Steve: I think of it like those rock tumblers that we used to have growing up… Did you ever have those? You put all those rocks in and it’s super loud, really annoying… Then you pull it out and you're like, “Oh, that was awesome.” The nastier the rock, the more beautiful at the end. Teresa: Smooth and gorgeous and a color that you didn't even know. Steve: So you started building and building and building offline (obviously) and then… And then did you start taking that offline-to-online growth? Teresa: It's never perfect… You always have things to learn but we knew how to do that offline building, no problem. I started trying to do live seminars about six or seven years ago because I thought, “We know how to do this, we are good at this.” If we can get MORE people in the room, we go BIGGER, we can go FASTER. It worked and we were starting to figure it out… I actually partnered with some people who had run massive events for people like Zig Ziglar… But it takes A LOT of capital and you're flying the whole team out to the area, going to Colorado and all of a sudden, it hit me… FIGURING OUT ONLINE NETWORK MARKETING You think I'd have figured this out sooner, but I was like, “Duh, if we're gonna do this, why do it live? Why not do it online?" That's when I started going, "Dude, we figured this out online and then, of course, we can go do live events and people will come," It has been so fun and so expensive until I found you guys. We had gotten the cost per acquisition down pretty low… Lower than anyone I know aside from the people that you train. AND THEN, I found your stuff and it was so exciting. And in fact, we brought a little gift for you. Steve: Oh, yeah? Teresa: Can I share this little surprise? Steve: Absolutely. Teresa: We made this for you. Steve: Oh, yeah? Teresa: I just have to tell you that my office team, my employees have been really excited about this and they've been sharing this all over the office over and over again. We have a segment… I won't share the whole thing here because it's too long. The one that we're going to give you is four minutes long, but this one is just 15 seconds… Steve: I'm so excited! NETWORK MARKETING MAGNET Teresa: That's part of what draws people to you and to what makes you a magnet. We have a four-minute segment that is just super-fun and I'll just tell you… We didn't have time. We're gonna give you this and you can use it for however you see fit. It might just be fun to have as a sound on your phone. I'm gonna turn that into my ringtone for you. Steve: Oh, it sounds good. That's awesome! I was speaking at an event once and there's a Q&A section at the end… This lady stood up and she said, "I know you're thinking about apps. Will you ever make an app for all the sound effects you make?" And I was like, "I think I'm flattered." Teresa: That was awesome! Steve: It's so funny 'cause I never realized I was doing it! Teresa: It's what makes it engaging because you're so fun. You're so YOU and you just draw people in! Steve: That means a lot. I'm very excited about it. Teresa: It's really fun. I hope you like and I hope you take it as a compliment. Steve: It's a huge compliment, totally. I will take that and blast it EVERYWHERE! Thank you SO MUCH for being on the show and thanks for walking through this. OFFLINE RECRUITING ADVICE Could you just give ONE MORE piece of advice for somebody who is just starting out and they're seeing this road and they're like, "Oh, man, she's been doing this for 11 years." Teresa: I would absolutely look to the masters WHO knows what they're doing and do what they do. Steve's trainings are phenomenal, that MLM Hacks… Oh my goodness! The thing I love about your training is people can do this very low level. You DON’T have to be techy and you DON’T have to be a coder. You have trainings that allow you to go slow, but then, you take people up the ladder to go into something that is bigger. The people who wanna go deeper, like me… It allows us to geek out over that stuff and you guide us through the process to make sure that we do it right. NETWORK MARKETING FRONT LINE I've done this for 11 years, and I have people who wanna be on my front line… I say, "Okay. So, if you're serious about this, I gotta know," and we go through the requirements. The requirements are basically... You do it the way that I teach until you hit *THIS* rank Once you're that rank, you do whatever you want because I've seen it, I've done it, I know what works I love the Secret MLM Hacks because you take people through the process without them having to go figure it all out for 10 years by themselves. You've been doing this for a long time, you truly are the guru. You deserve kudos for that, because you are helping people all across the industry and I know that this is starting a wave that is changing the MLM industry. In answer to your question, I would say If you only wanna build online, build online. If you only wanna build offline, build offline. But if you wanna do both, I would recommend that you build the way you want, but make sure you incorporate the best pieces of BOTH of those sides so that you can reach ANYBODY. NETWORK MARKETING GAME CHANGER You're gonna come across people who simply say, "I wanna be on your team." Steve: Yeah, a lot. Teresa: You don't build offline because you build online… But you end up having to handle it offline and you're just good at it. This might sound weird but… One of my tricks is to belittle the goal so that it's not so massive in my mind that I'm like, "There's no way I can go pull that off." If I try to consume and understand and plan for all of it at the same time, there's no way! You get stressed out. At the beginning, when I first started this, there were no podcasts. No one was talking about this angle of it and it's cool to see how 180 degrees that is now. I have bought your packages, I know your stuff and I'll just tell you… It changes the game. Steve: That's awesome, thank you so much. Thanks for being on here! Where can people find you? Besides MLM Game Changers ←- Everyone go look at the podcast. Teresa: The podcast, MLM Game Changers and we also have teresahardingmasterclass.com. We have pre-registration there for a FREE Master Class that we do, teaching people how to combine the online with the offline. I give shout-outs to Steve all the time. There are certain people online that are THE BEST OF THE BEST. Steve is one of them. Steve: Thanks so much! Teresa: Thank you for having me on. Steve: Thanks for being on the show! Everyone go check out and follow Teresa Harding. She's amazing! She's the Queen of the offline bill. TO RECRUIT ONLINE OR TO RECRUIT OFFLINE… To recruit online or to recruit offline… That is the question. By now if you listen to the show at all, you know I focus heavily on methods to recruit online in largely automated ways. But what if you don't know what to do with speaking to somebody face-to-face who's actually interested? What do you do? What do you say? How do you keep the conversation moving? When should you follow-up and how often? Who should you pursue and who should you move on from? Frankly, and totally honest, I'm good at all that online stuff. But if you're like me, you might be a little bit of an introvert in the real world. Whilst sales and marketing online is still sales and marketing offline, the mechanics are a little bit different. I'll be an expert in what I am loudly, but I can't pretend to know all of these offline methods because I don't. Who better to introduce you to, than the Queen of offline recruiting herself, Teresa Harding. Teresa literally has MILLIONS of people in her downline as you listened to this. She's an offline recruiting EXPERT. However, several months ago, she ran into my programs online and said exactly what you heard in my interview with her. "Steve, you did what we've been trying to do for 10 years." If you wanna check out the same programs Teresa Harding has, go to listentoteresa.com and watch the free web class now. Kind of like salt and pepper, Teresa and I are excited to finally collaborate a little to show you your individual strengths. She'll teach you OFFLINE recruiting, I'll teach you ONLINE recruiting. If you're ready to learn more of what Teresa did from my programs just type in, listentoteresa.com.

I'm very excited today and I have a very special guest.   This is somebody who had been an extremely active participant in the community and, honestly, I get excited every time I see you comment.   I'm very, very pumped to have you on today. Please welcome to the show, Tricia Robino. Very excited to have you.   GUEST FROM THE SECRET MLM HACKS COMMUNITY   Tricia: Very excited to be here Steve. Thank you so much for having me.   Steve: This is going to be awesome.   A few weeks ago we were looking through and thinking “Now who would be really fun with a cool story to just bring on the show?” And immediately, Coulton was like, “Oh my gosh, you got to get Tricia on”.   That's exactly when I reached out and I’m so glad you that you could make it. Thanks for jumping on.   Tricia: Yeah, no problem.   Steve: Just so everyone gets to know you a little bit. How did you get started in MLM?   Tricia: Well that's a great story, because I'm in the wellness space just like you.   Steve: Nice.   Tricia: Just after my son was born, which was 40 years ago, I got out of shape. So I was trying to get back into shape.   I got really super hooked on the wellness industry. I was an aerobic instructor and then owned a health club.   What it came down to was, I really wanted to make money doing what I loved and so I thought it was going to be the health club.   I really wanted success and I really wanted to feel good and have people think I was doing something really, really cool. Because all my brothers and sisters, they're like CFOs, they're lawyers, they're dentists.   Steve: You have an unofficial bar, right?   Tricia: Exactly. I had this bar and so believe it or not, owning a health club was cool. And I actually was able to make money. At one point I made $10,000 a month.   Steve: Cool.   HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU’RE MAKING IT AS AN ENTREPRENEUR? Tricia: That's kind of how I was making it. But what happened was ... Have you ever heard of this big company called 24 Hour Fitness?   Steve: No.   Tricia: Yeah, right. They opened in San Leandro. I'm in Oakland, CA.   They opened 20 minutes away from me. It exploded and this space was very difficult to make money in. I mean it was super, super hard.   And so, I went bankrupt.   Steve: Sure.   Tricia: So like all good entrepreneurs, I filed my bankruptcy.   I had to do it, but it was pretty devastating.   It was embarrassing to be quite honest with you.   My son looked up to me, I was embarrassed. It pretty much devastated my life at that point. I got a divorce. I mean it was just like that whole story of everything just fell apart.   I had $267 in the bank. My dad had to bail me out. I had to write that letter to my sisters to see who could help me.   I mean it was just really, really, rally hard.   Steve: Oh man.   Tricia: But I didn't want to get a job. I quickly realized I loved working for myself and I did not want to get a job.   I would've rather lived underneath the bridge than have to work for somebody else.   But I needed to make money... And what did I know how to do? I knew how to grow a business. I had been growing business for 13 years.   So I worked as a business consultant. Which is another way of saying, “You know I don't have a job, I don't have anything, so I'm just going to help other people make money.”   I remember the day when I picked up this book called “Rich Dad, Poor Dad.”   DO YOU LOVE WORKING FOR YOURSELF?   Steve: It's the gateway drug for every entrepreneur.   Tricia: So I read this book called "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" in about three trips to the bathroom. It was like I was glued to this.   I realized that I wasn't a gym owner. I wasn't an aerobic instructor, I was this thing called an entrepreneur.   And that's when it really sunk in that I was an entrepreneur and he talked about network marketing.   I'm one of those guys that literally started looking for a network marketing company. I've been in network marketing of 16 years.   I was looking for a network marketing company. I literally recruited my upline to get me into the business, and I was 53.   So side note, I did not quit my job, which is what I always recommend to everybody. Get excited, but don't quit your job yet.   So I didn't quit my job, I kept working, but I was just in love with the whole industry. I jumped in, hook line and sinker, worked part-time with a full-time attitude.   Back then we had this incredible system, which was about lead generation, and I really loved that system because we called it scrubbing the leads.   We would have a lead come in, but we had a system where they would get more and more interest. They had to jump through hoops to get to the next level, so I knew that they weren't just sort of kind of interested.   Steve: This person's actually serious versus kind of dabbling.   Tricia: Because of the system, I was able to move up our marketing plan really fast. Everybody has different levels in their marketing plan. In 4 years, I got to the 1%.   BUILDING A SUCCESSFUL COMMUNITY   Steve: Oh wow.   Tricia: Yeah, through a system.   Steve: Wow.   Tricia: Which was great. It was fast, but really slow at the beginning.   Steve: Sure, it felt slow I'm sure.   Tricia: It felt like I couldn't get to making even $3,000 a month.   I couldn't get to that point where I really felt like I could quit my job and literally I didn't quit my job at the very beginning because I knew that I wanted to advertise.   I've always believed in advertising, I've been an entrepreneur for a very long time. So I wanted to make sure I had some wiggle room right there.   I was finally able to quit my job. We do a lot of personal development. I hear you, I was at Funnel Hacking Live 2 times, I've been to Offer Mind, I've been to Boise to see you, so I know that you're in to that too.   Jim Rome worked with our company for years and years. So I had a chance to meet him, get to know him, spend some weekends with him.   Personal development was another reason that I moved up the marketing plan. Then things changed, right?   I've been in this industry for 16 years. Here's the thing, if you don't expect it to change, you're not going to do very well.   I change all the time, right? And to be honest, that's what makes it fun for me.   Steve: Yeah, me too.   AN ENTREPRENEUR LOVES CHANGE   Tricia: If you're an entrepreneur and you like change, then just keep your eyes open. So that's what I've always done.   Our model kind of changed to the point where it was more face to face. People were starting to do lots of fit camps and opening up nutrition clubs and things like that. You know I did it, but I didn't love it.   Steve: Yeah, it bothered you a little.   Tricia: I do networking marketing because I like the time freedom, I want to work from home. I travel, that's one of my passions.   You know, I really want to be able to travel and do the things that I love. It's a great model, it really works, I love face to face.   I was hearing people from the stage, all these different network marketing companies and doing so much with social media and I'm like “This really sounds like fun.”   About a year and a half ago, I got my first ClickFunnels account and that's where I heard about you. When we had the round tables and I was trying to squeeze my way into your table.   Steve: That's right as I was standing on the chair screaming?   START WORKING ON YOUR BUSINESS!   Tricia: Yeah. But I still liked you anyway. I was like "He's my kind of guy."   I started to become acquainted with you and then as soon as I got home, I think pretty much after I got home is when you launched Secret MLM Hacks. And I was like, "Well, of course I've got to sign up for that”.   We completed the whole thing. I mean we were just like "Okay, let's do this, and we've got to do this, and he's closing it down." I can't remember what it was but-   I just have notes, upon notes, upon notes. I did it ALL.   Steve: So what's happened in your business as a result of it?   Tricia: As a result of it, I have been able to really focus on completely working online.   Steve: That's awesome.   Tricia: And I've been able to duplicate it too. I published a book and right now, I'm just finishing up. I hacked your funnel.   Steve: Good.   Tricia: So I'm just finishing up. The FREE plus shipping.   Steve: Nice.   Tricia: It's actually done. I have to just do the final touches.   Steve: Sure.   Tricia: I hooked up with Anchor and started a podcast.   Steve: Nice.   Tricia: I've done a 5 day workshop with a quiz and there’s a funnel for that.   Steve: Wow.   Tricia: I have almost finished a membership funnel. I'm working on my application funnel. I haven't completed that yet, but I have started on it. I'm doing monthly events.   WORKING ON YOUR SALES FUNNELS   Steve: For your team and such or is it for bringing in new people?   Tricia: It's to bring in new people.   Steve: That's awesome.   Tricia: I'm doing 5 day wellness workshops.   Steve: Oh cool.   Tricia: In fact this one workshop, this one group, I have over 1,100 people in it right  now.   Steve: Wow! Holy cow.   Tricia: Yeah, so that's good. I've been creating a community of brand new people. I have a community of product users. I've got a community of people who are moving up the marketing plan. I have a community of my builders. I’ve really focused and really heard you when you say it's not the WHAT, it's the WHO.   Steve: Yeah.   Tricia: So I've really been working on my WHO.   Steve: That's so cool. You've got more audiences that this has let you bring in. You can train them more. Has it helped you sell more product so far?   Tricia: Yeah, absolutely. But within the framework of how we can sell the product I have, that's going to be part of my free plus shipping for my book.   Steve: Nice. Yeah, okay. I love that. Put something in the front, you sell it all on the back anyway. Totally love that.   Tricia: Exactly. Yeah, so that's worked out really, really good.   ARE YOU NERVOUS ABOUT BECOMING AN ENTREPRENEUR?   Steve: What would you say to somebody then who's getting nervous about trying this?   This whole concept of the internet plus MLM is so foreign to so many people. What would you say to somebody who's nervous about that?   Tricia: About the internet?   Steve: Yeah, just about using it. All the tools we have, so many people are so scared of it.   Tricia: Here's my note. It works for me, and I've been able to validate those numbers and that is one of the things that I'm keeping close track of.   How much money do I spend, how many leads do I get, how many people go through my funnel, what's the end result, how much money am I making? We have people moving like they've never moved before, using social media tools.   Steve: Right, they're on fire.   Tricia: They're on fire and it's the next... I'm not even going to say it's the next new thing, it IS the new thing.   I would do it because you get everybody prepped for it. It's like you have to create the attractive character. People don't know that they're cool, you know? I didn't know I was cool until I put on my green glasses, was just myself, no apologies for anything, just have fun.   Steve: What does your upline think about all of this?   Tricia: I've got real supportive people in my organization. In fact, the person that first mentioned ClickFunnels to me, was my upline.   Steve: Oh that's awesome.   Tricia: That's never been an issue at all.   THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF ENTREPRENEUR   Steve: That's so awesome.   One of the big things that I hear from people when I'm talking to them about this or they're starting to see what it is that I'm proposing and they're like “What, this is so foreign.”   One of the biggest things that I hear from people, and you just kind of touched on it a little bit but they say things like “Steven, I'm nothing like you. I don't want to have to be like you in order to have success in this.”   I'm like “Whoa, that's not at all how this works, you know. You get to be you, LOUDLY"   Tricia: Not only do my clients need different personality types, and they are going to be different personality types, we all enhance each other.   In network marketing we work together and so therefore, if you have members of your team in there with new people, then the new people have everybody's story.   THE MOST VALUABLE PART OF THE SECRET MLM HACKS COMMUNITY   Steve: What would you say has been the most valuable thing so far that you've gotten from the program?   That you've actually been able to use and apply, and you're like, "Wow, that was good."   Tricia: I hear you in my head all the time. But this is something that you said at Funnel Hackers, because I was just in Nashville.   You said at Funnel Hackers and that is, “Just do the next thing.”   Just take the next step, and that is how you have set up the whole training. Especially after I have completed the program, it's like “Okay, just build one funnel. Make it good.”   Right? Then the next step is whatever that is. And when I think about “Oh Steve just says just take the next step,” I don't have to get this whole thing figured out. I just have to go to the next step, I have to get this funnel finished and launched.   I have to do the marketing for it. That's the next step and I think for me, especially as an entrepreneur, I just want to gobble up the whole horse, I think that's the thing that I hear you saying in my head the most.   Steve: Absolutely, well thank you so much and we really appreciate it. Any parting words?   Tricia: I do have one parting word, because we can make up stories about being too old or we can make up stories about not understanding technology and I just want people to understand that's just a story.   It's just a learning curve and there's so many people that are out there to help you, just dive in. Just dive in and have fun. That's the big thing, you know? Make it a fun experience.   JOIN THE SECRET MLM HACKS COMMUNITY   I know it's tough to find people to pitch after your warm market dries up, right?   That moment when you finally run out of family and friends to pitch. I don't see many up lines teaching legitimate lead strategies today.   After years of being a lead funnel builder online I got sick of the garbage strategies most MLMs have been teaching their recruits for decades.   Whether you simply want more leads to pitch or an automated MLM funnel, head over to secretmlmhacks.com and join the next FREE training.   There you're gonna learn the hidden revenue model that only the top MLMers have been using to get paid regardless if you join them.   Learn the 3-step system I use to auto recruit my downline of big producers WITHOUT friends or family even knowing that I'm in MLM.   If you want to do the same for yourself, head over to secretmlmhacks.com.   Again that’s secretmlmhacks.com.  

*increase team volume, secret mlm hacks, teach your downlines, the power of the internet   Listen to a recent Secret MLM Hacks course member, Nick Bradshaw, as he tells us how is team volume nearly 20X'd after using these modern MLM recruiting principles...   INSIDE SECRET MLM HACKS   This is an interview that I've done with one of my good, Nick Bradshaw. He's got his own show but he wouldn't tell me what it is. You should track him down and ask him.   We have about 500 people in the Secret MLM Hacks program. For the next few episodes, I'm actually going to share with you guys some of the interviews I've been doing with people who are in the program and share what's been happening.   Nick  has almost 20X-ed his team volume since using the Secret MLM Hacks methods, which is crazy. I didn't know it was that much! I thought it was just doubling, not 20X!   He's going to walk through and talk about how he's been using this stuff and teaching the same strategies to his downline, which is ultimately what's been my goal in creating this stuff.   It's not so that everybody has to join Steve Larsen. It's so that you can learn how to do this stuff on your own and then teach your downlines and explode stuff.   A lot of MLMs are refusing to be influenced from the top down on the strategies that I'm teaching. I'm just telling you… This is the landscape of the atmosphere that we're in around here.   A lot of big MLMs are not wanting to take on some of the strategies like the internet, which is ridiculous. It's because they don't know it themselves. They don't know how to train or teach on it.   The strategy I've been teaching is actually to go from the bottom up. It's for the little guy.   HOW TO TEACH YOUR DOWNLINES   Secret MLM Hacks has been focused on training from the ground up. I don't care what MLM in you're in. That's why I'm not here pitching you guys all the time. I'll drop every once in a while what I'm in if you guys are interested, but that's not the purpose of it.   The purpose of it is for me to go and influence MLM from the bottom up. To hand tools to people inside of MLMs from the bottom up who can go reteach it to their people and explode past their uplines.   That's been the point and it's been working. We've had a lot more MLMs reaching out, asking things like, "Would you come build funnels for us?" I'm like, "Where were you when I was talking about it earlier?" It's flipped the whole table on its head.   I have a very special guest today. Somebody I have been watching and seeing everything that has been going on... And I've been impressed.   There’s not many people in MLM who use the power of the internet. I've got a very special guest for you today. It's very easy to see who is in MLM online because there aren't that many. When I first saw other people doing it I was like, “Oh my gosh I'm not alone!” I was so excited about it.   I want to introduce you to and welcome Nick Bradshaw.   SECRET MLM HACKS INTERVIEW WITH NICK BRADSHAW   Steve: Hey man. Thank you so much for being on here.   Nick: Dude it's been absolutely my pleasure. It really really is.   Steve: It's gonna be awesome I'm pumped for it. Just so people understand more about what you do, tell me when you first got into MLM?   Nick: I've been in the MLM game myself about two and a half years. Funny enough, my wife is actually the one who started all of this and I jumped in halfway through. It's really skyrocketed and taken off from there.   My wife's been doing this for about five years. And during that time I was actually a car salesman. I was working 60 - 80 hour workweeks, every single week.   When I started in car sales I had one kid and then next thing I know, I had two kids. I blinked three times and next thing you know I'm sitting next to a six and four year old kid. I'm like, “Where did all the time go?”   I was burnt out on it. I had set all these goals and I had reached the goals. I had worked my way up the corporate ladder so I could provide for my family and let my wife be a stay at home wife.   I got to that roadblock that said, “Where do I draw the line of how much time I'm spending at work versus how much time I'm spending at home?”   From there it was like, “Alright, well what do I do? How do I remedy this, how do I fix it?”   Steve: Something's gotta change, right? We've gotta shake it up a bit.   WHAT IS INSIDE SECRET MLM HACKS?   Nick: How do I be a better father to my kids? How do I be the father that I want to be rather than just the provider and someone that my kids don't even know? I was literally leaving for work before they woke up and I was coming home two hours after they'd already been in bed.   That's where my journey started with MLM. My answer to all of that was, “I'm gonna jump on board and help my wife build this business”.   And so that's what I started doing. I've got all these sales skills. I've been doing this hardcore sales stuff for five years now. My wife was relatively well. She was a silver rank in her company which equated to $2,500 a month.   So I said, “Okay, if I'm gonna quit my job and I'm gonna do all of this, I’m gonna quit cold turkey”.   Steve: You just up and left?   Nick: Yeah, just up and left. I said, “I'm done”.   Here's the crazy part… We moved from Indianapolis to Austin, Texas two months afterwards. We completely restarted. Hit the reset button.     I've got all these sales skills and one of the things that I see really lacking inside of the MLM world was people knowing how to sell. So that was the problem that I said I can fix.   I jumped into our team trainings and I started doing all of these things. I started teaching them menu selling (which is a car world term) but it's just narrowing down the options.   Instead of giving them this huge, 16 page spreadsheet of all of these things that they can buy, you're gonna narrow it down and say, “Okay you have this option, this option or this option.”   HOW TO INCREASE TEAM VOLUME WITH SECRET MLM HACKS   I started doing that and in four months, our team volume jumped from $30,000 a month to $80,000 a month.   Steve: Wow, big jump.   Nick: Yeah big jump. Just within a couple of months of just getting people to understand how the sales process actually works and implementing those skills.   But then we really came to a plateau. You can only do so much to the customer base that you already have.   Steve: Right. You need some more people eventually.   Nick: Eventually you need more people. That was the brick wall that I ran into at that point. I was like “Okay, so how do I do this?”   Marketing, duh.   If sales pushes and marketing pulls, I need to pull more people into this business.   But I had no idea how to do it because I'm not a marketer. I've been doing sales my entire life. And honestly, that's when I found Steve Larsen. I started listening to Secret MLM Hacks and I signed up to ClickFunnels.   From there… I failed. Miserably. On my face.   Steve: Sure. We pretty much all do the first few rounds.   Nick: I jumped in and I'm like, “Oh this is gonna be awesome! I'm listening to you but I'm not really hearing you”, you know what I mean?   Steve: I always laugh when people are like, “I've heard this training before”, and I'm like, “No it takes a few rounds, go again.”   Nick: I jumped in and started building these funnels and I'm like, “This is going to be awesome” and then I hit launch...   And I launch that first funnel and nothing. It was just crickets and I'm like, “Alright, back to the drawing board”.   INCREASE TEAM VOLUME WITH CLICKFUNNELS   I paused my ClickFunnels account because I realized that I didn’t have the skills that I need to be successful doing what I'm doing.   Steve: Right.   Nick: That's when I really jumped into it and I remember the time specifically. I was at a leadership retreat which is an invite only retreat for a company. I had just gotten Expert Secrets and Dot Com Secrets. I bought the black book with the funnel hacker's cookbook and all of that. And I brought it with me.   I'm sitting in our hotel room and I started reading Expert Secrets and I didn't put it down. I went all through the night and the next morning. When it was time to get up and go to the retreat I was still sitting there with my book on page 240 or something like that.   All of these things just started hitting me and it was like the fire was lit. I started really consuming and I even started hacking Secret MLM Hacks.   Steve:  I noticed that's what you were doing. I watch a lot of people do that which is great and I think they should model it.   Nick: When I was hacking Secret MLM Hacks somehow, someway I ended up in the membership site and I hadn't paid for it. I messaged you and I'm like, “Dude, I have no idea how this happened but I'm here.”   Steve: We were in the middle of tweaking some stuff. Yeah, I remember that. It's not that way anymore.   Nick: It's not that way anymore. A whole new revamped course and everything. I got there and I started watching your videos, consuming and I implemented.   For my relaunch basically modeled exactly what you were doing. This was probably seven months ago, eight months ago?   HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO INCREASE TEAM VOLUME?   Steve: A while ago now, yeah.   Nick: Since then we went from$80,000 a month in volume to averaging about $150,000 a month in volume.   Steve: WHAT? I didn't know it was that big dude… Are you serious?   Nick: Yeah. In the past 12 months, we've done a little over $1.5 Million.   Steve: So you're saying it works?   Nick: I'm saying it works dude. That's probably about the time that you really started noticing me singing your praises. I'm sitting here inside of my own business and I'm watching these things grow and accumulate exponentially.   And I'm trying to teach this stuff to my team and get it through their heads… There's no other way!   Steve: I don't know another way either. I'm not making fun of you who are like, “I love talking to friends and family. I love going to home and hotel meetings”. Good on you. But you can only do that for so long.   It's so much better to have something automated.   Nick: Yeah, absolutely. I start learning more about marketing and it's a constant learning curve obviously.   But you know that? It’s so true that MLM is a personal growth opportunity with an income opportunity attached to it.   Steve: Right.   Nick: That's what it is. It's a great way to start for the traditional person who doesn't know anything about marketing or sales. You can start talking to family members and friends and doing all of that.   But the reason that 99% of us out there are failing is because we don't ever move past that portion of it.   The growth never happens and where we get into real marketing or real sales.   PERSONAL GROWTH WITH SECRET MLM HACKS   Steve: Reaching out to your network only gets you so far. After a while you have to learn how to attract more people, market to them, change beliefs, sell and close.   It's funny when people are like, “I'm just gonna treat this like a hobby.” You're not going anywhere then, sorry.   It's a business not a hobby.   Nick: That’s the way that I see this. We talked about this the other day. The way that I see MLM moving, the way that I see this momentum going... It's having a rebirth, almost.   If you've lived in our world, it's changing the way that it's happening. We're slowly moving out of those 1960's origins and moving to 2020.   You're seeing a lot more sales and marketing professionals get into the game. I'm trying to teach everybody that, I'm trying to show everybody that.   If you're not moving in the direction that things are going, you're going to become extinct.   You're going to have real professionals in this game, doing things, exploding and leaving everybody else in the dust.   Steve: There are social media platforms that were never around until 10 years ago. The distribution channels that exist now are massive and you can tap into them for near nothing.   Most MLMs are mad when you go do that kind of stuff. What is wrong with you? You could be selling so much more if you just use them! It doesn't mean you have to be on Facebook saying “MLM”.   What are you guys are doing right now that's working best for you? I'm just interested in that, because the course is big. Secret MLM Hacks is not a small course.   What is it in there that has been most helpful so far?   TEACH YOUR DOWNLINES WITH SECRET MLM HACKS STRATEGIES     Nick: The thing that I think that's been most helpful… It's just gotta be the confidence to go out and PUBLISH.   Steve: Oh yes.   Nick: The confidence to go out and publish and talk about what you're doing. It's one thing to sit there and learn it for yourself. It's another to go out and actually teach people what you're doing.   Steve: Sure.   Nick: Not only because, in my personal opinion, I think that you learn it better and but you learn how to communicate it better. The more that we've been publishing, the more that we've been putting it out there, the more that it attracts people.   Steve: Sure.   What's being published right now? Is it a podcast right now?   Nick: I've started a small little podcast at the moment.   Steve: What is it called? Feel free to shout it out.   Nick: I don't know if I want to at this point...   Steve: That's okay then, never mind.   Nick: I'm still trying to find my voice. My wife's Instagram account has been blowing up. She's got 42,000 followers right now.   Steve: That's big.   Nick: We do a lot of not direct marketing there. More like back page marketing.   Steve: Sure, that's one of my favorite kinds. Especially in MLM.   Nick: I modeled you and I set up my own little course. I started targeting people who want to make money online. The people who actually want to own a business. Not people who want to do a hobby.   Sending people through that mini-course has yielded great results.   THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND MLM   Steve: That's awesome.   What does your funnel look like right now? I talk so much about funnels, and most of the MLM world is still very new to the funnel term and concept. But what is it that you guys are doing right now?   Nick: The big thing we're doing right now is the little mini course which basically teaches marketing for MLM.   Steve: Sure, that's awesome.   Nick: The big idea behind that is, if you want to recruit more people into MLM and you don't want to talk to your friends and family, then:     You have to target people who actually want to own a business but people who aren't necessarily getting the results that they want out of the current business that they're in.   Setting up this little mini course that teaches people how to market. People who actually want to learn how to market their MLM. Then we invite them to join the downline.   At the end of this course I affiliate for you and I say, “Hey, there's two ways that you can learn this…”   Steve: Which I see by the way, thank you.   Nick: “... You can either go join Steve's Secret MLM Hacks and learn it from the master. Or you can join my downline and I'm gonna teach you exactly what I'm doing to grow my downline to do $1.5 Million per year.”   You can say in your current business and learn from Steve or you can join me and learn from me.   Catching that low hanging fruit, I suppose. Taking advantage of the way that the current MLM system is.   You have so many people that are unsatisfied with the business that they have because they're not learning the things they need to run their business.   TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE TEAM VOLUME   Steve: Which reeks of opportunity for the rest of us who actually know what the heck's up.   Nick: Exactly. That's exactly what it is. It's kind of like a smorgasbord of low hanging fruit.   Steve: It is, yeah.   Nick: As far as extra recruiting goes and getting new people, it's great when people actually want to use the product, they believe in the product, they love the product and all of those things.   That's an amplifier but it's not a requirement.   Steve: So you guys have a course, you're selling, you're driving traffic to the course and then on the back you’re saying, “Hey, if you want to come join, this is what we've got”.   Nick: Exactly.   Steve: That's awesome. I was filming some training for my own team three weeks ago now. And I just wrote RECRUITING.   That is what most MLMs teach you and the method for it is just walk around. Think about the power of what we're doing with this stuff.   We're taking the recruiting model and replacing something in front of it so that we're not actually promoting the MLM.   How long did it take you to create your course?   Nick: I created the course in about seven days.   Steve: RIGHT? It's not crazy, man. You create this course so then you're no longer promoting an MLM. So Facebook is okay with you suddenly.   You drive traffic to that and take the money to dump it right back into ads. It's amazing and it changes the whole model.   It's literally INFO PRODUCT + MLM. Mashing together two different industries.   Are you doing phones sales as well? Closing them on the phone?   TEACH YOUR DOWNLINES THE POWER OF THE INTERNET   Nick: To a degree yes. I will offer that to people and I have an application process (modeled after you).   Nine times out of 10 when someone goes through the application process, I set up my auto-responder. My email service will kickback a set of emails that walk them through the process of setting up their account.   Then I've done an automated overview. A business overview that teaches them about the company.   During this entire time, I never even mention my company's name.   Steve: This is the craziest part! Same thing!   Nick: I've literally modeled what you've done.   Steve: I LOVE IT!   Nick: For months my entire office was covered with print out after print out of exactly what you did.   Once I finally mapped it out in my head, it was more about the concepts at hand.   Another thing that I think a lot of people struggle with inside of the funnel world is that they think it's about pages.   Steve: Right yeah, it's not.   Nick: It about the framework. What is the state of mind that he's putting every single person in?   Once I finally understood the framework behind it, I knew that's why I failed the very first time that I tried ClickFunnels. Because I thought that it was just all about pages.   But once I understood the core framework and moving somebody through the funnel and how that's done, then all of a sudden it made sense.   Steve: Right.   INCREASE TEAM VOLUME WITH SELF-LIQUIDATING OFFERS   Nick: One of the coolest things that happened out of all of this and how I feed this recruiting machine is by putting self-liquidating offers throughout the course.   The course is dripped out over five days and on each day there's a small self-liquidating offer.   Whatever I talk about that day, I then give them an offer to say, “Hey, if you want to learn this more in depth right now, click this”. Then it goes to a new page with a little sales video for an offer for $7.   Right now it's $1.50 per opt in on the front end and on the back end it's churning out $38.   Steve: You're speaking louder than whole MLMs even know how to!   Nick: Exactly and it pays for itself 17 times over. I'm paying myself to recruit people.   Steve: Last week on Secret MLM Hacks we put $1400 in and we got $20,000 back out (not including how many people got recruited and then they get handed the same recruiting systems). I don't know how it fails.   The biggest issue is the education. Most MLMs don't know how to do this which is understandable. It's a newish thing.   What would you tell to somebody who is on the fence about trying this?   ON THE FENCE ABOUT SECRET MLM HACKS?   Nick: The biggest thing that I would tell people is fail and fail fast. Just do it.   When we over think it, nothing ever gets done. I'm a perfectionist myself which is why I listened to Secret MLM Hacks 18 months ago and I just started doing this six to eight months ago. It wasn't really until the last three months that it really took off.   I’m still constantly tweaking and doing things to it but the fact is that I just did it.   I finally put down the pen, I finally put down the book and I went out there and I did it. Then I hit publish and I wasn't scared to feed the machine up front and put a little bit of money into it.   Nothing is ever gonna get done if I just sit here and read books. The knowledge is great...   Steve: But nothing happens.   Nick: You just gotta do it. Be active in your pursuit of what you want.   Steve: Be clear about the fact that this is not a hobby.   We've treated this like an actual business. We've got phone closers, we're talking to people and training.   I hate when someone joins because they're trying to do you a favor. Then they're wondering why they don't go build.   You recruited the wrong who! We gotta change your who altogether!   Nick: Every bum on the side of the street needs an opportunity.   Steve: Right!   Nick: I live in Austin and if you walk down downtown Austin you're guaranteed to see about 10 every 100 yards.   They might NEED an opportunity, but they don't' want it. You gotta find those people that actually WANT to succeed in whatever it is that you're doing.   DO YOU WANT THE SECRET MLM HACKS OPPORTUNITY?   Steve: Dude I am so thankful that you got on here. Thank you so much for sharing. I did want to ask one last question.   How many people have you been recruiting since you turned it on six months ago?   Nick: I would say we're probably getting five to seven a month.   Steve: That's awesome! On autopilot?   Nick: Yeah, on autopilot.   Steve: And the quality of person is really high which is awesome.   Nick: Five to seven a month is what we're recruiting into our organization and we get paid for a lot of people that say no to us as well.   Steve: Yeah, they bought the thing up front which is the beauty of it.   Nick: And I say five to seven, that's five to seven that we ACCEPT.   Steve: We get three to four applicants a day but I immediately cut out at least half off them because I can just tell…   Nick: Once you get to a certain point, you have to be able to say no. You have to self-select and be able to weed out people because otherwise it just becomes too overwhelming.   Steve: Then you turn into a life coach rather than a “Here’s what we're doing in our company this week” coach.   Nick: Exactly.   Steve: With love, I'll say that as tenderly as I can.   Nick, thank you so much for being on here, I really appreciate it. This was awesome, man. Really means a lot that you jumped on.   HEAD OVER TO SECRET MLM HACKS NOW   I know it's tough to find people to pitch after your warm market dries up, right? That moment when you finally run out of family and friends to pitch. I don't see many up lines teaching legitimate lead strategies today.   After years of being a lead funnel builder online I got sick of the garbage strategies most MLMs have been teaching their recruits for decades. Whether you simply want more leads to pitch or an automated MLM funnel, head over to secretmlmhacks.com and join the next free training.   There you're gonna learn the hidden revenue model that only the top MLMers have been using to get paid regardless if you join them. Learn the 3-step system I use to auto recruit my downline of big producers without friends or family even knowing that I'm in MLM.   If you want to do the same for yourself, head over to secretmlmhacks.com. Again that’s secretmlmhacks.com.

Gavin and B black try to figure out why the word white, is some white peoples Kryptonite. They review the Oscar-winning movie Crash and go hard on Rep. Steve "What's wrong with being a white supremacist" King. 

Highlights May 1918 Preview Roundtable - Ed Lengel, Katherine Akey, Theo Mayer | 02:50 General Rumblings - Mike Shuster | 18:00 War In The Sky - Eddie Rickenbacker | 21:45 Documentary: “Blackjack Pershing: Love and War” - Prof. Barney McCoy | 25:55 The big influenza pandemic - Kenneth C. Davis | 32:15 WW1 War Tech - Fed billions, killed millions: The tragic story of Fritz Haber | 39:25 100 Cities / 100 Memorials from Brownwood, Texas - Dr. Steve Kelly | 44:15 Speaking WW1: Binge | 50:00 Articles and Posts: Highlights from the Weekly Dispatch | 51:50 The Commemoration in Social Media - Katherine Akey | 54:15----more---- Opening Welcome to World War 1 centennial News - episode #70 - It’s about WW1 THEN - what was happening 100 years ago this week  - and it’s about WW1 NOW - news and updates about the centennial and the commemoration. This week: Dr. Edward Lengel, Katherine Akey and I sit down for our May 1918 preview roundtable Mike Schuster, from the great war project blog with a story of conflict within the Allied forces. Author Kenneth C. Davis shares the story of influenza in 1918 Professor Barney McCoy gives us insight into the upcoming documentary, Blackjack Pershing: Love and War Dr. Steve Kelly with the 100 Cities / 100 Memorial project from Brownwood, Texas. Katherine Akey with the commemoration of world war one in social media And lots more... on WW1 Centennial News -- a weekly podcast brought to you by the U.S. World War I Centennial Commission, the Pritzker Military Museum and Library and the Starr foundation. I’m Theo Mayer - the Chief Technologist for the Commission and your host. Welcome to the show. [MUSIC] Preface Before we get going today, I wanted to tell you about some great new features for the WW1 Centennial News Podcast. First of all, you can now listen to the latest episodes of WW1 Centennial News on YouTube -  if you happen to prefer listening that way!   And something I think is really exciting and useful when you go to our podcast web site at ww1cc.org/CN (Charlie Nancy). When you click the “read more” of the episode, just below the highlights you will find the full and accurate transcript of the show - interactively linked to an audio player. With it, you can scan OR search --- the text of the transcript and wherever you double click - the audio will play. Or if you are listening and want to copy and paste a segment of the transcript for you newsletter, school report or blog, just pause and scan down the scranscript, The section you were hearing is highlighted in blue. This very cool, new interactive transcript technology has been provided by a great little startup called Jotengine… and we have added it to make our podcast even more useful for students, teachers and everyone who wants to share the story of the war the changed the world. World War One THEN 100 Year Ago This Week Roundtable with Katherine, Theo and Ed [SOUND EFFECT] Alright... The first week of every month, we invite you to our preview roundtable where Dr. Ed lengel, Katherine Akey and I had talk about the coming month and the key events that happened 100 years ago.  The question on the table as we sat down was, “ what WERE the big stories and themes in May 1918… What follows is our conversation. [roundtable - see transcript for details] [SOUND EFFECT] Great War Project So that is an overview for the coming month - but now let’s join Mike Shuster - Former NPR corresponded and curator for the Great War Project blog as he explored another key battle that plays out on the Western Front… The battle between the Allied Generals and American General John J. Pershing. They did not see eye-to-eye at all… and Black-Jack Pershing was not going to waver from his belief about how the US army needed to engage. It sound like it was more than just a little contentious Mike!   [MIKE POST] Mike Shuster from the Great War Project blog. The links to Mike Shuster’s Great War Project blog and the post -- are in the podcast notes. LINK: http://greatwarproject.org/2018/04/29/the-allies-quarrel/ [SOUND EFFECT]   War in the Sky America's Top-Scoring Ace Scores his First Victory It is a changing of the guard,  for the War in the Skies over Europe 100 years ago this April and May. In April 1918, Germany’s Manfred von Richthofen falls, and in May America’s Raoul Lufbery. One of the new names that rises among these ashes is that of a Columbus Ohio native every bit as much of a flamboyant character as the early fliers. Before joining the service, he was a famed race car driver who set a land speed record at Daytona of 134 miles per hour - a tough guy, technically too old to be accepted into flight school, and a guy who claimed he was afraid of heights - His name was  Eddie Rickenbacker… Born the oldest son of 5 siblings 1890  -- young Eddie had to step up to become the major family breadwinner, quitting school at only 12 years old, when his father died in a construction accident. A tough beginning for what would turn out to be quite a guy! Having developed a passion for the new technology of the internal combustion engine - by 16 he had landed a job with a race car driver named Lee Frayer, who liked the scrawny, scrappy kid - and let him ride in major races as his mechanic. By 1912 - the young 22 year old was driving his own races and winning! and crashing! and surviving! When war broke out in 1917, Rickenbaker volunteered - but at 27 years old -- was already too old to get accepted to flight school - something the speed demon really wanted to do! Because he had a reputatioh as a race car driver - he was enlisted as a sergeant and sailed for Europe as a driver. There is a lot of lore that he drove John J. Pershing, but that is generally disputed. However, he DID get an assignment to drive Billy Mitchel's flashy twin -six -cylinder packard and talked himself into flight school through the boss! His WWI flying exploits are legendary and the kid from Ohio came home a national hero But that was just the beginning of a colorful life for a scrappy and scrawny kid, turned Ace of Aces, airline President, famed raft suvivor of a plane ditching in the Pacific, potential presidential candidate - who lived large in living color..,, and finally died in 1973 at the age 83 having launched his career as a WWI fighter pilot in the war in sky one hundred years ago this week. Link:http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/rickenbacker.htm http://www.historynet.com/captain-eddie-rickenbacker-americas-world-war-i-ace-of-aces.htm http://acepilots.com/wwi/us_rickenbacker.html The Great War Channel For videos about WWI 100 years ago this week, and from a more european perspective --- check out our friends at  the Great War Channel on Youtube. New episodes this week include: The first tank-on-tank battle in history -- Tank crew training and more German tank prototypes Plus…. The Finnish Jägers in World War 1 See their videos by searching for “the great war” on youtube or following the link in the podcast notes! Link:https://www.youtube.com/user/TheGreatWar World War One NOW Alright  - It is time to fast forward into the present with WW1 Centennial News NOW - [MUSIC TRANSITION] This part of the podcast isn’t the past --- It focuses on NOW and how we are commemorating the centennial of WWI! [SOUND EFFECT] Commission News Belleau Wood Tree -- Missing but will return This week in Commission News -- We heard, with great distress that the lovely Oak sapling from Belleau Wood,  that had been planted by President’s Macron and Trump on the white house lawn last week - had mysteriously GONE MISSING~!! One day it was there - the next - it wasn’t! Much to our relief, the mystery was resolved quickly. It turns out that the tree - which has made it’s journey from Europe with Macron had to be put into temporary quarantine - a typical procedure for living agricultural goods imported from overseas. It’ll be put back to its original spot as soon as it get out of detention! We put a link to the story in the podcast notes! Link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mystery-solved-why-trump-macron-friendship-tree-vanished/ar-AAwxbt3?OCID=ansmsnnews11 Spotlight on the Media Blackjack Pershing: Love and War We have a spotlight on the media for you! The spotlight is on US General of the Armies, the American Expeditionary Forces commander General John J. Pershing. [RUN AUDIO CLIP FROM TRAILER] That clip is from a new documentary “Black Jack Pershing: Love and War” - and today -- we’re joined by the film’s producer -  Barney McCoy professor of journalism at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Welcome, Barney! [welcome/greetings] [Barney-- I understand your film looks is not just about Pershing the General but also Pershing the man, who also suffered and endured great personal tragedy and heartbreak in his life. Can you give us an overview of the story in the film?] [Now, you made this documentary by incorporating hundreds of U.S. Army Signal Corps photographs and films from the National Archives -- what was the research process like? And did you come across anything surprising as you were poking around the archives?] [How did you get involved in this film? How did it happen?] [A very important question… When and where can people see the film?] [thank you/goodbyes] Barney McCoy is professor of journalism at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln and the producer of “Black Jack Pershing: Love and War”. We’ve included links to the film’s trailer, website and upcoming screenings in the podcast notes! Links:https://www.archives.gov/calendar/event/black-jack-pershing-love-and-war https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3DzGSwdeE https://jjpershing.com/ Remembering Veterans The Influenza of 1918 This week For Remembering Veterans -- we’re turning our attention away from the battlefield and looking at a phenomenon that took more lives than the bullets or shells. With us to explore the story of the Flu pandemic 100 years ago, is Kenneth C. Davis, bestselling author of the  “Don’t Know Much About” book series. In fact, during our editorial meeting, when we were discussing the interview our intern, John enthused that these books were on his shelf as he was growing up… Well, Kenneth’s new book is coming out on May 15th and it is called:  More Deadly Than War: The Hidden History of the Spanish Flu and the First World War .. a fascinating subject by a wonderful writer! Kenneth! Welcome to the Podcast. [greetings] [Ken- Let’s start with the name of this flu pandemic - Patient Zero was not from Spain were they?] [How big and bad was it? I have heard a lot of varying numbers but whatever they are, the scale staggers the imagination!] [We have a global war - we have a global pandemic - how do the dots connect? ] [Ken - what made this particular flu so especially deadly?] [Well, a quick follow up on that - and Katherine our line producer asked about this - with so many advanced in medicine in this particular moment in history - why did medicine not get ahead of this one?] [Do you think this deadly global event still echoes today? ] [Thank you so much for coming in and speaking with us today!] [goodbyes/thanks] Kenneth C. Davis is the bestselling author of the Don’t Know Much About Book series. Don’t miss his upcoming -  More Deadly Than War: The Hidden History of the Spanish Flu and the First World War available at your favorite bookseller May 15th! We have put links to his work and upcoming events in the podcast notes. Links: www.dontknowmuch.com http://dontknowmuch.com/books/more-deadly-than-war/ http://www.pritzkermilitary.org/whats_on/pritzker-military-presents/kenneth-davis-more-deadly-war/ https://www.amazon.com/More-Deadly-Than-War-History/dp/1250145120/ref=sr_1_6 WW1 War Tech Fritz Haber For WW1 War Tech -- we are going to tell you the amazing and tragic story of a WW1 era technologist, the German chemist Fritz Haber! Fritz Haber is one of the most underappreciated actors of World War I whose discoveries spanned from the life giving to the life taking. He was celebrated with Nobel Prize for developing chemical fertilizers -- and equally vilified for another invention, chlorine gas. Tragically one of his most vocal critics was his wife, Clara, who was not only an ardent pacifist but an accomplished chemist herself. The invention of what is known as the “Haber Process” was the result of wartime necessities. Even before World War I, German military strategists recognized the potential of a total British naval blockade on their country, which would do tremendous damage to their ability to import the materials required to manufacture weapons. One particularly vulnerable commodity were the nitrates imported from South America, used in the development of ammonia for explosives. Haber discovered a new method of creating ammonia by combining nitrogen and hydrogen gases. Since ammonia is also used as a fertilizer, the Haber Process allowed for the mass production of agricultural fertilizers, transforming agriculture both inside and outside Germany. Much of the reason behind why the world is able to support a population of more than seven billion is the use of these  fertilizers, which all have their roots in the Haber Process. And for his method of creating artificial ammonia, Haber was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1918. But as we said, another of Haber’s invention would come to overshadow this incredible discovery. When World War I finally broke out in 1914, the quick victory expected by many military generals soon became a slow, bloody struggle to shift the frontlines only a few miles either way. The German High Command quickly realized they needed a new, fearsome weapon to break the stalemate. It was the strongly patriotic Haber who came up with the solution: by combining the ammonia he extracted from the air with chlorine, he could produce a gas that would asphyxiate all who encountered it-- Haber was on hand personally when his Chlorine Gas was first released by the German military at the Second Battle of Ypres.  Over 5,000 men, not recognizing this new weapon’s true danger, were quickly overcome, and were found by their fellow soldiers with their faces turned black and shirts torn open in a desperate search for air. Germany’s use of poison gas at Ypres would set a precedent for an unprecedented tactic, one that would scar many men for a lifetime after the war ended. People around the world were horrified by Harber’s new, deadly invention, but among the most repelled was Haber’s own wife, Clara. At a party celebrating his promotion to Captain as a result of his work in poison gas nine days after the test at Ypres, Clara directly confronted her husband, calling him morally bankrupt and his efforts monstrous. Haber ignored her. Later that night, no longer able to stand her marriage, Clara shot herself in the garden with her husband’s pistol. Haber left the next day to supervise another gas attack on the Western Front, leaving his young son to grieve alone. After the war ended in Germany’s defeat, a brokenhearted Haber would try to single handedly pay back the burdensome war reparations by inventing a process to distill dissolved gold floating in the ocean, an ultimately unsuccessful endeavour. There is a final,  tragic and ironic twist on Haber’s legacy… during WWII - When the Nazi regime was looking for ways to best murder their many classes of undesirables, they came upon one of Haber’s products, a pesticide called Zyklon. The Nazi authorities used this chemical to gas millions of innocent victims in the Holocaust, including the Jewish German Haber’s own friends and family. Fritz Haber, a brilliant man whose fertilizer invention have fed billions, who’s weaponized inventions killed million, whose wife shot herself in protest and whose family and friends were finally gassed in concentration camps with his own invention… an epic, tragic and another amazing story of the war that changed the world and this week’s WWI War Tech. We have links for you in the podcast notes. Links:https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/g1577/7-surprising-scientific-advances-that-came-out-of-world-war-i/ http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/~paulmay/haber/haber.htm https://www.sciencehistory.org/historical-profile/fritz-haber https://www.britannica.com/topic/Gymnasium-German-school https://www.britannica.com/biography/Fritz-Haber https://medium.com/the-mission/the-tragedy-of-fritz-haber-the-monster-who-fed-the-world-ec19a9834f74 https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/immerwahr-clara 100 Cities 100 Memorials Brownwood Texas This week for our 100 Cities / 100 Memorials segment ---  the $200,000 matching grant challenge to rescue and focus on our local WWI memorials --- We are updating one of the very first projects we profiled on the podcast - From even before the first round of submissions were closed.   Joining us again for an update on the 100 Cities / 100 Memorials project from Brownwood Texas is Dr. Steve Kelly, the immediate past president of the Central Texas Veterans Memorial - Steve welcome back to the show. [Greetings and Welcome] [Steve - The last time we spoke your project was just a candidate, but it has since been designated an official WW1 Centennial Memorial - Congratulations…] [For your project you moved your WWI memorial from behind a bush at an old, closed high school to a new memorial site at your local American Legion post 196… Can you tell us a bit more about that?] [As I recall from the last time we spoke, you have both a commemoration and an educational component to you project - how did you do that?] [Steve - What stage is the whole project at now and do you have rededication plans?] [Thank you for coming on and giving us an update on your project from Brown County Texas!] [Thanks/goodbye] Dr. Steve Kelly is the immediate past president of the Central Texas Veterans Memorial in Brownwood, Texas. Learn more about the 100 Cities/100 Memorials program by following the links in the podcast notes or by going to ww1cc.org/100Memorials Link: www.ww1cc.org/100cities Speaking WW1 Binge Welcome to our weekly feature “Speaking World War 1” -- Where we explore the words & phrases that are rooted in the war  --- Let’s start by thinking… Obsessive, Compulsive Consumption…. I heard a great analysis of our modern media times recently. It talked about the fact that in our new age, we no longer have “stop cues” for media consumption. You don’t read the paper, you take in an endless stream of news feeds and tweets. You don’t watch a TV show, you find yourself awake on the couch at 3am with just 2 episodes left to finish the fourth season of The Office -- and you’re not alone! Without “stop cues” the analysis went on, we are media binging all the time.. And that brings us to our Speaking WW1 word for this week…. BINGE. And who would you have thought that that phrase made its way to the 21st century by way of the trenches? Binge was originally a “Northern English” term meaning to over-indulge. The word first appeared in printed form in 1854, with a clearly alcohol-related connotation. And a connotation that may have carried forward for many of our listener to their college years with Binge Drinking! The term remained regional to Northern England until World War 1, when it spread through the english speaking forces and became standardized in the English lexicon. It also started being used to describe the obsessive compulsive, consumption of food.  Which led to the description of an eating disorder called binge & purge… So now it’s meaning has expanded to include any number of new categories: food, drink, media, entertainment and… well many others! Binge-- obsessive, compulsive, consumption - and this week’s words for speaking WW1. There are links for you in the podcast notes. Links:https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/binge-drinking.html http://www.dictionary.com/browse/binge http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4tN7cVtY2VY2sbGtX6z9Df3/12-words-from-100-years-ago-we-love-to-use-today [SOUND EFFECT] Articles and Posts Weekly Dispatch Newsletter Highlights   For Articles and posts -- here are some of the highlights from our weekly Dispatch newsletter which you can subscribe to at ww1cc.org/subscribe or through the podcast notes. [DING] Headline: Two WWI nurses led the way for women in today’s Wisconsin National Guard Read the story of two women serving as Army nurses in World War I pioneering the opportunity for women to serve in every duty position in the Wisconsin National Guard. [DING] Headline: NARA is getting WWI Army Division records online - with citizen help! The National Archives Records Administration also know as NARA Is getting Citizen Archivists to help make these records more accessible. If you’d like to help NARA transcribe these historic handwritten records - You CAN! There’s a link in the podcast notes for you to get started. [DING] The studio that brought you 'Wallace and Grommit' is creating an emotional World War I game Read more about the new videogame 11-11: Memories Retold, a narrative adventure about two World War I soldiers who meet under the "most unlikely of circumstances." [DING] Headline: Doughboy MIA for week of April 30 Read about Pvt. Charles H. Holland, a native of Mississippi and member of the 2nd Division-- 9th Infantry--Company L-- Charles was  wounded in action during the battle of Soissons--- he was carried off to a field hospital and never seen nor heard from again. [DING] Finally, our  selection from our Official online Centennial Merchandise store -   this week, with Memorial Day coming up - it’s your last chance to order our small, 8" X 12" WWI Centennial flags for Memorial Day. This is the year to display the memorial ground flags honoring your local fallen doughboys! You’ll be doing  "Double Honors", because a portion of the proceeds from the sale of this item goes to building America's National World War I Memorial at Pershing Park, in Washington DC. And those are some of the headlines this week from the Dispatch Newsletter Check the links in the podcast notes Link: http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/2015-12-28-18-26-00/subscribe.html http://www.ww1cc.org/dispatch https://www.archives.gov/citizen-archivist/missions The Buzz The Commemoration in Social Media And that brings us to the buzz - the centennial of WW1 this week in social media with Katherine Akey - Katherine, what did you pick? Motorcycles, Mail and the Military Times Hi Theo -- We shared a video this week on Facebook from one of the Commission’s Commemorative partners, the French Centenaire 14-18 -- it shows the project undertaken by two frenchmen to restore an American doughboy’s Harley-Davidson-- which they are now bringing to, and driving across America. The motorbike would have been used to carry messages behind the lines, and less than a thousand are thought to have made it to today. Watch the video and read an article about the project at the link in the podcast notes -- we’ve also included a link to the frenchmen’s facebook page so you can follow their journey as they ride the bike across the US! Also on facebook this week -- we shared a photograph of a humble receipt from the Harry S. Truman Library and Museum. This week 100 years ago, the future president was a Captain in the Army, commanding a battery of field artillery on the western front. And-- his birthday was coming up! So his loving wife Bess ordered him a fruit cake, having it shipped to his 129th field artillery in France. The receipt shows her purchase from the Jones Store Company in Kansas City, Missouri -- likely a fruit cake would survive the journey, and we hope he enjoyed it on his birthday on May 8th, 1918. And if you’re wondering -- it cost a whopping total of $1.40, equivalent to about $25 now, to buy and send the birthday treat. See the receipt yourself at the link in the notes. Finally this week, I wanted to point you towards a very thoughtful opinion piece from the Military Times website -- May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a subject that has been deeply important to the success and wellbeing of our armed service members throughout history. The article is entitled “A century after ‘shell shock,’ struggle to address post-combat trauma continues” -- and it opens up questions about our understanding of PTSD, and our relatively recent acceptance of trauma as a significant and common affliction. Read more about how WW1 changed our understanding and treatment of Shell Shock and PTSD at the link in the podcast notes -- we’ll have guests on later this month to continue to address the topic. That’s it for this week in the Buzz. Link:https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/pays-de-la-loire/loire-atlantique/nantes/centenaire-14-18-harley-armee-americaine-repart-nantes-us-1467347.html www.facebook.com/operationtwinlinks https://www.facebook.com/TrumanPresidentialLibrary/posts/10155390413860770 https://www.militarytimes.com/military-honor/world-war-i/2017/04/19/a-century-after-shell-shock-struggle-to-address-post-combat-trauma-continues/ [SOUND EFFECT] Outro And that wraps up the first week of May for WW1 Centennial News. Thank you for listening. We also want to thank our guests... Dr. Edward Lengel, Military historian and author Mike Shuster, Curator for the great war project blog Kenneth C. Davis, author and historian Barney McCoy, professor of journalism at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln Dr. Steve Kelly with the 100 Cities / 100 Memorial project from Brownwood, Texas. Katherine Akey, WWI Photography specialist and the line producer for the podcast Many thanks to Mac Nelsen our sound editor as well as John Morreale our intern and Eric Marr for their great research assistance... And I am Theo Mayer - your host. [MUSIC and under] The US World War One Centennial Commission was created by Congress to honor, commemorate and educate about WW1. Our programs are to-- inspire a national conversation and awareness about WW1; Including this podcast! We are bringing the lessons of the 100 years ago into today's classrooms; We are helping to restore WW1 memorials in communities of all sizes across our country; and of course we are building America’s National WW1 Memorial in Washington DC. We want to thank commission’s founding sponsor the Pritzker Military Museum and Library as well as the Starr foundation for their support.   The podcast can be found on our website at ww1cc.org/cn  - now with our new interactive transcript feature for students, teachers and sharing. Or search WW1 Centennial News on  iTunes, Google Play, TuneIn, Podbean, Stitcher - Radio on Demand, Spotify or using your smart speaker.. Just say “Play W W One Centennial News Podcast” - and now also available on Youtube at WW1 Centennial. Our twitter and instagram handles are both @ww1cc and we are on facebook @ww1centennial. Thank you for joining us. And don’t forget to share the stories you are hearing here today about the war that changed the world! [music] Talk about binging - I just got a note from a listeners - who has decided to listening to all of 1917 from our WW1 Centennial news podcast, eating a pizza with every episode, washed down with a six pack.. that sounds awful and I’m just kidding! So long!

Steve Larsen: Hey, what's going on everyone? It's Steve Larsen and you're listening to the completely epic, totally conceited and amazing episode of Secret MLM Hacks Radio. Here's the real mystery. How do real MLM-ers like us [inaudible 00:00:13] cheat and only bug family members and friends? Want to grow a profitable home business? How do we recruit A players into our down lines and create extra incomes, yet still have plenty of time for the rest of our lives? That's the blaring question and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Steve Larsen and welcome to Secret MLM Hacks Radio. What's up, guys? Please know that I'm joking, but honestly, this is amazing stuff. What I want to do today is I want to you guys through. A few days ago, I was thinking through where I am in my own business, my down line, and I just thought to myself, "I wonder what's the biggest people have been able to go do because of this podcast or what I'm teaching or the course? What is that?" Anyway, I decided that I would reach out to all these people and I would ask them, "What's the thing?" I got back some crazy responses. I had no idea. What's the biggest you guys have taken away? What's the biggest thing you've learned? Tell me what's the result from which you've learned. The learning part, I love being able to see people understand stuff and get epiphanies and things like that, but it's learning for a purpose, which is to make more cash, to get more people in the down line. I know that and I'm aware of that, I'm cognizant of that, and that's honestly, one of the biggest bars of success that I care about. When we're off and we're selling, I want you to think about it this way. I build a lot of sales funnels for a lot of people, for myself. Anyways, large individuals, school, you'd all know the names if I said. Anyway, I don't know if I'm allowed to. It's been fun going through and doing this. There's this really interesting thing that happens. I want you to think about your MLM's product. Can you sell your MLM's product? Yeah. Can you sell your MLM's opportunity? Right, I'm sure. Yeah, absolutely. What happens, though ... Let's say you're standing with a friend, someone that you would love, or someone that you just met, but somebody that you would like to be inside the opportunity. What happens when another person walks up and just talks up like crazy to MLM, like, "This is amazing. Oh, my gosh. This is incredible. It completely changed my life." They do that in front of someone who's not in the MLM. You'd be like, "Duh. Steven, of course, the guy is going to freak out and be amazed and be like, 'This is amazing. There really is something to this.'" There's this third party validation that's going on that matters like crazy. I remember there was a ... It's going to make me sound really conceited. There was this time, there was this event going on at Click Funnels HQ, and I had been publishing a lot. We were able to go and help a whole bunch of people. It was a lot of fun. I walked in the door, there was a bunch of people that turned around, like, "Oh, my gosh. It's Steve Larsen." They'd come up and they start taking pictures and things like that. This guy walks up and he goes, "What are you, some kind of celebrity or something?" I was like, "No, I wouldn't say that. I'm not trying to be. I really like what I do and I talk about it." Some guy next to him was like, "This is Steve Larsen. Oh, my gosh. Really incredible." Crazy. To an awkward amount. I was like, "Okay. Thank you." [inaudible 00:03:37] What happened to that guy? I feel really awkward that I just said that story. Think about it with you. Is somebody going to walk up and be like, "Oh, my gosh," whatever your name is, "You're amazing. You're incredible." I'm just trying to be real here and open and honest with you. Are there other people who will, right now, walk up when they see you and be like, "It's you in the flesh. Oh, my gosh"? I don't care what you think about him, but if the president of the United States was to walk in your house, you would go (gasps), "Wow." That awe feeling. "Wow." Have that feeling of (gasps). That feeling, that internal reaction to what is going on. Will somebody else have that reaction when you walk in the room? Guys, it is my strong, firm belief that if you want recognition in this planet, do not seek it. It is a gift that comes to those who have been actively trying to bless human societies, to bless the human race, to bless people or prospective customers, buyers. Does that make sense? People who are actually delivering real value. Don't go out and ... Guys. If anyone goes and rents cars that are fancy and takes pictures in front of them for the social media profile, I'm going to slap you. I am so against that. Be real, be ethical, be honest. When people think about your MLM, when people this about your opportunity, do they have the reaction of (gasps), "Wow. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. Whoa"? That honor feeling. Do they have that? If they don't, it's okay. Just be honest about it. Is that there? If it's not, that's okay. If it is there, that's great. Identify why. Turn that up. That's part of what makes you talkable. You cannot talk somebody into joining your MLM. If you can, they may not be the right person to get in. Very hard to get those kinds of ... The best kinds of people I like to go recruit are the people that are hard to recruit because they're busy individuals. They have so much going on already. That is the best person on planet Earth for me to go get because they're active individuals. I don't have to hold a cattle prod to their back to get them to do anything. In order to create that feeling about what you do, who you are, your reputation, and again, I'm trying to let you know use this for good. Don't be a schmuck about it. I know that everyone listening ... By the way, we're getting 150 downloads a day on this podcast. I did not know that until I just looked at it. Really cool. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate that. I am actively trying to change the MLM industry and thanks for joining me on this journey. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know I don't care what MLM you're in, when people either hear about it or they learn your opportunity, or they are for the first time, seeing your product, how do you create the feeling of (gasps), "Wow"? It will not be by you talking about you. That's the fastest way to feel and look and be and be perceived as conceited and a self-righteous snob. An element of credibility is still needed. How do you do that? Here's one of the easiest ways to do it. I remember I was building a funnel for this lady. She was from Australia, but she used to live in Africa. They escaped Africa. Really interesting story. I don't know if I should tell all of it because there's actually some really scary elements to it. They literally ran. There was actual gunshots. It was actually a pretty scary story. She ran. They got out of Africa where they were living and they moved over to Australia. When they were in Australia, she had to go through the incredible, ridiculous mound of paperwork that it took in order to get a visa to be in Australia. I don't know if they ran straight to Australia, but eventually, they went to do their paperwork, they got over there. She became an expert at this process. She was able to drastically and severely lower the pain needed for someone to get into Australia. We were making this funnel where in three steps, you could get a visa to Australia. She was very, very good at it. She was an expert at it. She helped a whole lot of people get in. She had all of these case studies and testimonials of people that she had helped, people who were saying, "I needed to get a visa quickly," or "I needed this," or "I needed that." The process is years for some people. What we did not do is make a video with her saying how amazing she is. That doesn't sell anybody. It just lets the world know what you think about yourself. When I have people apply to join my down line, I do not have a video of me saying how awesome I am. I have tons of video of other people saying how much I've been able to help them. Lots of cool success stories. Tons of other people who are like, "My gosh, this guy changed my life." If I say it, it feels a little weird. You might be feeling right now, "Man, Steve had never talked this way." That's the reason why. If I come out and I say that, people are like, "Oh, my gosh. This guy is kind of full of himself." Even though it's important to be confident, it's important to know you're good, it's important to know when to talk about yourself, but come on, no one wants to hear that from everybody all the time. In fact, really, hardly ever. How do you do this? One of the easiest ways to do this is just go gather cool testimonials and stories about what you've been able to do for other people in their life and use that as your sales message. If at all, just include it with the sales message that you have to sell your opportunity, to sell the product. If your MLM has loaded you up with testimonials, it works if they're generic ones that came from the MLM. If you can get them about you, if you can get them about how cool it is to be on your team, oh, my gosh, that is so powerful because now you're not the only one selling. The burden is spread. It's no longer just on your back to say, "Look how cool I am. Yeah. I do know what I'm doing. This team is really cool." Now you have a whole bunch of people that are like, "Oh, my gosh. This is incredible. This has been life changing. It has changed everything for me. Thank you so much. This is incredible." Does that make sense? There's good testimonials and there's bad testimonials. Not all testimonials are created equal. Bad testimonials are when someone's standing there and they're like, "Hey. I didn't know if I should come to this even or join this down line. I'm so glad I did. If you think that you want to do this, you should." That's a stupid testimonial, okay? Those are dumb. The way to make good testimonials is, we have to understand the backstory of the individual who is talking. Otherwise, we do not relate to what they they are saying. I like to use something called an epiphany bridge script. I literally will hand that script to the person who's giving the testimonial and I'll say, "Answer the questions for this script. What's your backstory? What kind of desires did you have internally about you? What were the desire you had externally? What did you want to go accomplish or get or see have happen? What kind of objections did you have? What were the unexpected walls? When you got over those walls, what was the new plan? Now that you got over the wall, what's the brand new plan?" Then next after that it's like, "What conflict did you hit again, the unexpected thing that happened?" When we know what those stories ... Then what did you accomplish at the end? When you know what that backstory is to the individual, that is the testimonial. That is so much powerful. Go find a Hollywood movie that does not have that script in it. What's fascinating is when you get people to do that, they will connect on an emotional level. What's happening inside the prospect's head, what's happening inside their head is they are saying, "Oh, my gosh. I relate to this person. Now Steve is not just trying to sell me on why I should join his down line. This lady, this person, this guy, they are ... Huh. I totally thought the same thing. I totally had the same kind of conflict, the same unexpected thing. I was similar to that." Now what happens, they reach out to that person. I don't care if that testimonial of that person, I don't care if that person brings them into the down line. It still helps me. Why would I care about that? It makes me sellable without me selling myself. If you don't have testimonials and you've been walking around, talking to people, and lets say did you have the ones from your MLM, that's fine, that's great, but they are nowhere near the amount of power as to when you get someone else to say them. "Oh, man, I joined Steve's team. I got the product of the MLM Steven's in. Incredible. It was amazing. So cool. I had serious pain here or I really wanted this to happen," and they go into the internal and the external desires. They go through the different walls and they go through the different conflicts that happened. Then they're like, "Dang." I have a whole string of those kinds of videos and I have it next to the application that I make people fill out when they want to join my down line. It's part of the process I have them go through. They're real testimonials. Those are my friends now and they're people that I get to work and hang out with. That's all I'm trying to say. If you want to turn up the sexy on what you're doing, if you want to turn up the sexy, go get testimonials. One of the things, just because I am a script writer, when I say that to you, you're probably now convinced that ... I'm trying to back track. We're going to exit Steven doing a podcast right now and enter my mind of where I'm going right now. I just showed you a new opportunity. I showed you a new way to get sales in. What I know happens now is there a knee jerk objection. Something that inherently pops into your head as to why that's not true, or why that won't work for you. The first one, I imagine, you're saying to yourself when I say, "Go get testimonials," is you're like, "I don't have anyone to give testimonials for me." I guarantee someone who's listening right now said that to themselves. "I don't have anyone to ask. I must need a team in order for this to work for me." That's the objection most likely going through your head for a lot of people. To that, my counter, is to say, if you don't have someone who you can go get testimonials from, the next thing that you go do is you go get people who at least know who you are and you ask the question, "What's it like to work with me?" You get those people to answer, preferably on a video. If it's just with them holding their iPhone, preferably on a video, though, and they answer the question, "What's it like to work Steve? What's it like to work with you?" The next question that I know that most likely is going to be a knee jerk reaction to that is, "I'm not good enough anyway. I'm not actually good enough ... I haven't done anything for anybody yet. Crap. I'm realizing that I don't know that anyone could give me a testimonial." That's another ... We're exiting the podcast episode, going into Steve's mind as he's starting to look around and say ... As I say this to you, most likely the large majority of you are going to say X, Y, and Z. In that scenario, if you're like, "I don't know if anyone could actually give me a testimonial," my gosh, guys, then go find somebody that you can do some for. I don't care if you do it for free. That's actually how I started in a lot of this game. I found somebody, I looked at their business, I looked at their stuff, I looked at the scenario and I was like, "You know what? With this kind of scenario, I could blow that person up" and I did, and I recorded the story. It's the story that launched me. You got to find a way to get the story. Exit the podcast episode right now, go back to Steven in his own internal conversation which can be a scary place. He's saying to himself, I know that when I go get testimonials, other people are going to say, "I don't have camera equipment. What kind of time is this going to take? I don't know that I have the resources to go get something like a testimonial. I don't know how to do video. I don't know how to put this stuff together." Go back into the episode, and now I've got something to say to that. I'm trying to help you guys see it doesn't matter what you're saying. Any new idea that you seed inside somebody's head, whether you're selling them on your MLM, you're selling them on your product, you have to be prepared and look forward and have foresight for the objections they will most likely have, and have a counter to it. I guarantee you listening to this right now, most of you are probably listening to it on your phone. It actually is more authentic a lot of times, and it actually sells a little better, and actually a lot of times it'll make you more believable when the people are using their own iPhones and sending you the video. That's it. I'm sure there's free software where you can drop a series of your videos, or just put your videos ... Anyway. Put them on YouTube. When someone's like, "I'm thinking about it," be like, "Oh, yeah, cool. Let me send you a few videos real quick so you know what this team is about." It's just the video testimonials of people who are basically selling you without selling you. Selling your opportunity without selling your opportunity. Selling your product without selling the product. It's one of the most powerful ways where it's not such a rigid script. It does help if you follow the format I was just saying. It's not such a rigid script, though. Having them says, "Look, other people have basically proven that I'm not a schmuck." That's basically it. If you can get that to happen, if you're not the one saying it, of course ... If I go ask a car salesman, "I don't know if I should get another car," what are they going to say? "Oh, yeah, you should totally get another car." That's why you're not believable when you say those kinds of things about yourself. "I've done this and I've spoken here and I'm on Forbes and [inaudible 00:17:40]." It comes across very conceited and it's not believable. The way to get around it and the way to sell people without selling, one of the easiest ways is to gather tons of testimonials. Those of you guys who have existing down lines, go ask your down lines for testimonials about you. Ultimately, that's what people are buying. We all know that from the classic cliché and phrases, ultimately people are purchasing you, not the MLM. Get them about you and find a way to deliver them as part of your onboarding or prospecting methods, whether using sales funnels or not. Whatever. Put them on YouTube and you can use them in different areas. Put them on your own website if you have one. Transcribe them. Put them on your blog. One of the ones I got here, which is really, really cool, super cool, I think the world of her. She's amazing. She went through and she said, "I haven't had any money success ..." Meaning in the past she was having a hard time selling stuff. She came in and she bought the Secret MLM Hacks program, and I want to share with you the results. This has been amazing. She said, "I have three girls. Oldest just turned five so they're home with me all the time and my husband is in the Army, and he's gone a lot." I'm paraphrasing pieces, personal data. You know what I mean? She said, "I'm bootstrapping this whole thing. Because of that, I went through your entire course. I took tons of notes, filled out the workbooks. Now I'm building as much as I possibly can to start getting immediate results and hopefully get things flowing quickly. I'm also trying to find other ways to bring cash in." "Basically, I am a crazy lady who has big fat dreams of getting our family into a financial position where my husband doesn't have to work all the time and can stay a positive service for him. You taught me how to make it all possible even with my babies. I wake up early and work late. While my successes haven't been huge yet, I've learned a ton." This was pretty cool. She said, "I don't know the correct way to say it, but before taking this, one out of every five people I showed my product to bought. Since the course," and she's learned how to sell. She's learned a lot ... I'm sorry. I'm stumbling here. She's learned a lot more about marketing. She said, "At least one out of every three people is buying from me right now." That is so sweet. Anyway, super cool. She's incredible and awesome. I'm grabbing the next one here also. It's pretty cool. She said, "Hey, Steve, one of the cool things I've gained from your course is realizing how important it is to start publishing regularly. I started a podcast right away, 10 days ago, and have started 10 episodes. After the third, I had someone reach out and tell me they were loving the information giving, and they were excited." She's now prospecting. She's getting leads already. That's why ... Oh, man. Go get it. If you are sick and tired of where you are in your MLM business, it takes a giant shock of energy, a huge shift, a massive sacrifice, something your side to go and actually make a huge difference and change what's been happening. She said, "They had been discouraged because their MLM recently pushed home parties, and so was I. I was able to chat with her about the growing power of doing this another way, so the product. So fun to see these people are responding so quickly to my podcast. It's gradually moving up in the iTunes charts in just 10 days." Super cool, guys. Lots and lots of cool things. People are recruiting like crazy. One of the coolest ones so far, because this has just been a lot. Not just from ... It's cool when people learn stuff. I want the outcome, though. I really, really, really want the outcome for everybody. It's been happening. It's been working. One of the craziest testimonials so far has been somebody set up some of the things I was talking about on Sunday, they turned traffic on, on Monday, and they had someone in their down line on Tuesday. It was nuts. That's just one example. Obviously, an extreme example, but there's been a whole bunch of others as well. People are recruiting. People are getting more into their down lines. It's just not fluff stuff. Stuff actually works. I just got my 225th person applying to join my down line, my personal one, let alone all the other people that I teach how to do it, too. Anyway, hopefully that was helpful to you. Go out and start thinking about how you can get your street cred and how you can document it in a cool way. What's super fun too, is ... If you're gutsy about it, call your shot and say publicly, if you're publishing regularly be like, "I'm going to go out and I'm going to do X," and publish the journey as you pursue X. Even if you don't hit X, the pursuit of that is followable. As you go, people will give you testimonials even for that. Figure out what it is that you can go do to get people who have sent you videos and have sent you testimonials. I have a file I collect them in, so that when I need them, I can use them and it works super well. Massive way to sell without selling and very, very helpful. It's actually a whole module in the course Secret MLM Hacks. All right guys, thanks so much. Hopefully that was helpful to you and in fact, I know it will be if you do it. Thanks so much and see you on the next episode. Bye. Hey. Thanks for listening. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Would you like me to teach your own down line five simple MLM recruiting tips for free? If so, go download your free MLM Masters Pack by subscribing to this podcast at secretmlmhacksradio.com.

EP21: Marc Miles Discusses 7 Things Every Painting Contractor Must Know To Protect Their Business SUMMARY: In this episode of DYB Podcast, Steve interviews Marc Miles, his business attorney based out of Venice, Florida specializing in defendign against IRS and state collections. Marc shares a plethora of useful knowledge about finding real solutions to the unknowns that could potentially hurt your business. From employee timesheets to written agreements, Marc talks in-depth about how to navigate the different undesirable situations you and your business may face. _______________ WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: -How to protect yourself and your business from unknown factors -The legal standing of your business and your money -Understanding the goals of your business in advance _______________   QUOTES: "If you do have something in writing, you’re bound by it, so you need to make sure you’re comfortable with it." "If you’re going to form a business entity, 95% of the time, LLC is the way to go." "A written agreement isn’t ‘I don’t trust you,’ it’s clarifying expectations and giving yourself a chance to void if something unfortunate happens." "If you want just your books done right, and you have no worries, your EA is irrelevant." "When you form the business, think about what your succession plan is going forward." _______________ HIGHLIGHTS: [03:25] The big unknowns that can hurt your business and how to prepare for those unknowns [09:33] Proper ways to protect yourself from false claims from employees [15:14] What to stay on top of regarding the IRS and what to do when dealing with tax issues [26:16] The difference between sole-proprietors and corporations [34:15] Partnerships, establishing trust, and understanding what your expectations are from the beginning _______________ LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: [APPS] TSheets DYB App [GROUPS] BNI The Florida Bar DYB Coach Special Offer Contact Miles Join DYB ADDITIONAL FREE RESOURCES: DYB System PDF EP01 9 Steps to Doubling Your Business Part 1 52 Blog Post Ideas PDF YouCanBookMe VIDEO Pre-qualifying Questions PDF Video Testimonial Checklist PDF 3 Steps To Get Leads From FB PDF 11 Interview Questions PDF 9 Ways To Get HOA Work PDF  -------------- Connect with Marc Miles on Facebook here Connect with Steve on Facebook here  -------------- Press and hold to visit the page Show Page Notes -------------- Thank you very much for joining us today! If you received value, would you take a quick few seconds and leave us a review on iTunes, please? _________ STEVE: What happened? MARC: So, I had this client, he was behind on his IRS payments, he had an ex-wife and had some issues, things didn’t work out well, she left him high and dry, he was in another relationship, he was trying to make that relationship work, but the IRS kept following him, he had a car, he had a business he was trying to start and his soon-to-be wife was like, "I am not marrying you till you get this fixed, if you don’t get this fixed, I am leaving you," so he is like, you’ve got to help me, I said I can do that, so he comes to me, he said, where are you at, we took a look at this whole situation, we said no problem, we can do this, this and this, we set everything up, I talked to the revenue officer, she was fine, we submitted the paper work and he ended up paying about, maybe $8,000 on what had been a $110,000 liability… And his girlfriend at the time married him afterward, saying we got together and if it hadn’t been for you, while I was doing this, she would not have stopped there… STEVE: Woah, okay… Hello and welcome Marc Miles of the law offices of Marc J. Miles P.A, welcome to the show. MARC: Thank you, Steve. STEVE: Marc, what does P.A mean? MARC: P.A stands for Professional Association, and it’s a designation that is able to be used by individuals who are licensed by the county moral of the States, when they formed a business entity that says, they can only practice with the entity that which they are licensed for. So, if you see a lawyer with P.A or PLC, you know that is their business, all they do is the practice of law, they don’t serve Mc Donald’s fries on the side… STEVE: Ah… okay, glad to have you on the show. For everybody listening, Marc Miles is our business attorney, and he has been, for years, he helped us when we were at Burnett Painting, he wrote the agreement when we sold Burnett Painting and he has worked with us ever since, for everything we’ve done, without going in details… and Marc is outstanding keep him close cause he’s a great guy to know and I was kidding around with him before we get into this. Marc, you are too big to be an attorney… it’s not hard and I kind of wonder how you got into this industry… But, fortunately, he is really good at what he does and so I thought, Marc, we’ve got to get you on the show and let’s share somethings that some business owners, painting contractors out there need to know, to protect themselves, protect their businesses and the unknowns right, so we know, what we know and we don’t know what we don’t know, that’s really the dangerous part huh… MARC: And that’s what I try to help people to say, here’s what you are not aware of, let me ask these questions, you decide, but I hope you can get there so you can think about these things that you might not otherwise think of. STEVE: Hmm… Absolutely, so for example, what are some of the big unknowns? MARC: Okay, so the big unknown… the biggest thing especially with trade contractors and painters is, whether your clients are going to pay you or not, a lot of times whether or not you are having an agreement or non-agreement to sign, that states the payment terms and other terms of agreement, you have no idea what the client is going to go, are they going to try to want to stiff you, do they want to change? Do they say no? I am not paying until you repaint the whole thing? So, one of the biggest unknowns is try to eliminate the ways the client has not to pay you. STEVE: Uh… Okay, now this is really good, this is especially used for high contract or long contract work like commercial, industrial or even residential for your construction, absolutely… So, what are some ways? How can you…? MARC: The first is, you put the total price in the writing in the contract, not just a quote, the quote says, here’s my estimate, here’s your price, but when you have them in a contract say, this is the price and what’s paid, you are also saying what you do it for, and you haven’t signed, people don’t think an estimate is binding, people sees a paper says, estimate, sign, yeah, I agree to that amount, but they don’t see it as, this is a contract I am… subject to, there are legal remedies to it and that’s one of the easiest ways to sort of… that’s how you do it, so you have a little, it doesn’t have to be a 10-page contract, it can be a 1-page contract, but it looks like a contract, so it impresses upon them, the seriousness as opposed to, here is my quick book invoice, sign here, that says I agree… STEVE: Uh, woah. Okay, so this is a really good point is and I know opinions to this is very common practice, quick books, invoice, estimates, whether it’s an estimating program, they all say estimate stuff. If I heard you correctly, you were saying it should say, to set the it should say contract, what about agreement? Can it say agreement? MARC: Absolutely, you could say agreement, no problem. And then it should contain a couple other things that… you people have seen in contracts before, you’ve seen references to if the contract is breached or if not paid in x days or you know, choice of law, if we disagree, we go to court here, you know… throw some of those things in there, you know… Now, don’t be smart about it, don’t put something that is going to hurt you because you don’t really know what it is, but throw some other things in there, so it looks like an agreement or contract, more than just an estimate. STEVE: So, silly question here, I put this together when I was in L.A, is if we should have a lawyer take a look at it? MARC: Have someone take a look at it, over, just see it and ask some questions, yeah. Because every state is going to be different and some things you maybe find difficult to put in one state versus another, so… STEVE: Okay. Thank you. What are some ways that business owners… because you know, I mean you run your own practice, it’s a ton of work and you take all the risk? Now if something happens to you, you can sue them for free, and if something happens to us, the owner… how can business owners protect themselves against faulty claims. Like here is an example, I was talking to a friend of mine and he had paid on of his guys an extra day, it was a holiday or something and it ended up being 48 hours and he isn’t paying five and a half and there was a day he didn’t even work, he was just being generous and paying the next 8 hours, well he came back and sued him, ended up causing him $30,000, because he didn’t pay him five and a half for that extra 8 hours that he paid him… MARC: And he brought the state in as well, I am sure, because the state came in and probably said, let’s take a look at your records as well… Absolutely, so yes, so one of the things you want to do is, some people use independent contractors, while some people use employees, and there’s two different ways you have to handle it, you have an independent contractor, you need to clearly meet… First of all, if you are using an independent contractor, you need to have an agreement, end of story, why? Because if you have good insurance, your insurance might have clause for not having an agreement. I’ve got a situation right now, a client of mine that is relatively large painting company has got major insurance, that’s $100,000 job, $300,000 jobs, had a job where the sub he used, ended up screwing up, causing maybe $1,500 or $1,900 worth of damage, but if he wants to go through his insurance, they are like you didn’t use sub-contractor agreement, even though I drafted one for him. And now they are saying, if you are going to use the insurance, it’s going to cost you $15,000… So, now he is going to pay it out of the pocket or pay the $15,000. So, if you are going to use a contractor, make sure the insurance always have an agreement, even for that reason, but the agreement contains a schedule, the schedule says, here is how I pay you, and you will be specific in that schedule, this is how I get paid and then you only pay by that schedule… that’s for contractors STEVE: For sub-contractors, so if you are working with subs, you have subs, make sure you have a written agreement? MARC: Yes, absolutely… STEVE: Okay, what should be in that agreement? The schedule? The payment schedule? MARC: The schedule, their insurance and their compliance with the law basically says, you agree you have x amount insurance and your license etcetera, whatever you have with the state, failure to do so is a breach. As well as the fact that if you don’t get paid, they don’t get paid, so you want to make sure that if you are doing the job and your sub and you get stiffed by the owner, you are not going to have to pay your sub out of pocket or not. Now, some people, they say that’s a little hard to get, maybe fair, but if you take a look at almost every big GC contracts that’s out there, from the big players, I would guarantee you that is in there. STEVE: Hmm… I wouldn’t be surprised actually… So, what about employees, what are some proper things, what are some, things we need to be doing to protect ourselves, faulty claims against employees, just making sure all our basis are covered? MARC: The biggest thing to do is, the time-tracking of hours, you have to have a system where their hours are tracked and you can see that, relatively easily… STEVE: Okay… MARC: Then the best thing to do is, if you are doing payroll, maybe you have someone else doing payroll, maybe you are doing it yourself. If you have someone else doing payroll, they will automatically know the hours when you calculate to get to know, are we yet over-time? Is it a holiday? Do we pay 5 and a half? Now, if you use QuickBooks payroll, it will usually do the calculation for you, but if not, they will know, it will let you keep track, because once you get that 40 hours, the rules change, once you hit the holidays, the rules change, and they are different in every state, but wherever the state, you need to know that. So, you need to be able to keep track of hours because what happens if they put, we’ve worked this time and you are like, hey you’ve worked 42 hours already, based on this job in here, you only really worked 32 hours, you know, something… I don’t know, I mean God forbid… few hours here and there a day. Track hours to be able to track the hours consistently, that’s number one… STEVE: There is an app we like to… that we used with Burnette Painting and that many DYB use, we call it T-sheets, I don’t know if you are familiar with it, but… MARC: Not a lot but okay… as long as it is hours that are recorded and you can see those hours on a regular basis so that you can catch anything, you have to still review and catch everything at a time, because what a lot of people do is, they think overtime is time and a half, that’s the only thing they think of, they don’t think about, sick or vacation, whether it’s state mandate, certain things, and that should be talking to… even talking to a payroll person they know, you know good idea of that, if a not local attorney is what makes that. And that’s just actually a brief conversation just to get some conversations to help make sure that you don’t blow that. The other thing is don’t do a written agreement, depends on what state you are in, lots of state are at will, which means as long as you don’t have it written, you can sort of do what you like with their employment and how they are employed and how long they are employed. So, very few rules such as over-time, wages, etcetera, but if you do put something into writing, you are bound by it, so you need to make sure you are really comfortable with what you have, if you have something in writing. STEVE: Interesting, so you have more liability with the employee… MARC: Potentially it is because you can be held to everything that you held them to, you can be held if you don’t do it, so you have 6 employees, and the rule states that employees do not get vacation until they have worked at least 3 months and ask for two weeks in advance and you let one guy have his one week in advance, now everybody gets to have one week in advance because you let them do it, despite the fact that the agreement, Emmanuel or whatever says two weeks STEVE: Hmmm, now you mentioned at will, can you impact that for us please? MARC: Sure, absolutely I will… STEVE: Okay MARC: So, a lot of states… actually I am not sure, I think it’s less states… at will, which means, whenever you go to work for somebody, there are no set terms, there are no set agreements, you can work whatever you agree to, if it’s in written then it’s a great upon, if not, it’s really tough and you can let them go at any time for any reason, subject to of the course federal discrimination, you can’t let the person go because they are black, you can’t let them go because they are female, you know, those kind of stuff you can’t do, no matter what, that’s a federal law that overrides. But if you don’t like the way the person drives his car, you don’t like the way he looks on the job, done… goodbye… STEVE: About tattoos… MARC: Absolutely… Sorry, I don’t like tattoo, done… You don’t have to give him a chance to rectify, you are done, goodbye… STEVE: Okay… MARC: So, everybody needs to find if they are in at will state or not, so if you are, great, if not, then you need to check with the local attorney there, because I can’t tell you what some of the restrictions on firing somebody can be, sometimes you have to give them notice, you have to give them opportunity and it just depends on that state. STEVE: Okay, makes sense, interesting. So, how about IRS? What are some?… I don’t know if I can ask you this… MARC: You can ask whatever and I have to answer it… STEVE: How do you feel, like where does the IRS ranks and your Christmas card list? MARC: Actually, believe it or not, the IRS ranks decently, the problem is congress, they are the ones, that are so low, I am like don’t ever pay them in front of me when I have a baseball bat… Because all of these since about say 1999, most of the issues we really have with IRS, is really congress issues, it says, you know what, we have come up with this plan, we are not going to spend a lot of time specifics here, you, IRS, figure it out, if we don’t like it, we will tell you, you are wrong and then go implement it without any real guidance from us and then when people complain, deal with it until they complain too much then we will try to address it, and that brings the IRS into doing things that they really shouldn’t be involved in, and having to make decisions that really shouldn’t be made by them, but congress doesn’t do it, so… STEVE: So, IRS has been taking the wrap the whole time MARC: They take the wrap a lot of time. Now, back in the early 1990s and late 80s, IRS deserved the wrap, they were doing stuff, it was like, we don’t care about you, you aren’t human, done, done, done… Now, it’s a little better, I mean most of the people I work with at the IRS are very reasonable, they are not push-overs unfortunately, but they are reasonable, at least, so… STEVE: So, what are some things that we need to stay on top of, to protect ourselves with IRS? MARC: The biggest, most important is if you have employees, you need to make sure you are paying those payroll taxes on time. So quickly, when you have an employee, you pay them their wage, you withhold a certain amount based on their W4, plus you pay 7.65% of the social security at one point, something percent, whatever… 7.65% total between the two and social security, Medicare, that federal withholding plus the Medicare and social security withhold from the employee’s pay, is not your money, that’s their money that goes to the government, failure to pay that, and the government can come after you, personally for that amount, regardless of what you think you set up, business protection-wise. STEVE: So, are these the 941s that we file? MARC: Yes, everything you file, the 941, the payments you are making, the 941, you need to make sure you pay those employee taxes first and foremost, end of story, pay those, it’s not your money, people try to say, I won’t pay this week and I will try to do next week and catch up, they can still be very, very dangerous game, it’s sort of like gambling, like oops, I didn’t hit black this time, I will get black again, alright Mr. black, I will bet it one more time, maybe eventually I’ll get to black and try to win. You know… do you really want to take that risk? You probably don’t. Number two is, for those in some states… if you have sales tax, file and pay that sales tax as quickly as possible. In Florida, I tell people, if you are a Florida resident and you don’t pay your federal taxes, IRS can come after you and take 90-120 days, and they will start coming after you, Florida department revenue… 90 minutes if they get serious… the state can move like that, and most states can move like that, most states have far more strong to grab and attach to people, for non-payment of state taxes than the IRS does. So, whatever your state tax is, if you have sales tax and… or similar collection taxes, pay those, because they are the people that can go after you ASAP. IRS, you can buy time, you can do stuff, a lot more than you can with the state. STEVE: Okay, that is really good to know. Now, what’s the first thing somebody should do if they received one of those dreaded letters from the IRS? MARC: The one that says, we think you owe something? STEVE: Yes, that one… MARC: Okay, there is a lot of letters from the IRS that people dread… So, there’s two types of letters, there is the one that says that, excuse me, we want to look at your return, because we don’t like this $200,000 in supplies that you put and then we know you owe us money, now if you don’t do something within 30 days, we are going to take action. So, there’s two different letters, one is on one side and one is on the other, if you get that first letter that says, we don’t like this on your return, go back and make sure you check you have your receipt and your documents, in that statement. Once you have those, then decide, do I want to talk to my CPA if my CPA can help or if it is something simple. Sometimes it’s as simple as, we just need to see what your travel is, and your travel was, for example, that year was just twice as large, because you went to two more conferences and you’ve got plane tickets and the thing, you probably have to go and say, here, sure, no problem, plane ticket… here and as long as all your receipts match up to what’s on the return, you know, you are probably fine. Now if they go and say, we want to see your bank statement, everything on the return, now you probably need to talk to that CPA, because they need to know what limits there are, when they are doing this, not you. STEVE: So, that’s a great point, CPAs…  about Florida, that’s fantastic. What does somebody look for in a CPA? How would somebody know a great CPA from a forum floor? MARC: The first thing usually is to check whether they have the CPA designation, those that have CPA, which means they’ve got the license, have undergone a higher level, 99 times out of a 100, a higher level of training education to know what has to be done. Now, does that means they are going to form that they have education? No, obviously not, so the best thing to do is have an interview with them, phone or face, it doesn’t matter, and then ask them questions about your stuff. Say, what can I do about this? What can I do about that? And see how they answer, and if they are one of the people that goes, oh you can do A or B, and that’s it… and they are probably one of these people that is following up on the forum or it depends, like what are we looking for, or they can give you a little more and say, well, what are you trying to achieve? They will ask you, what are you trying to obtain? What are you trying to achieve? What’s the ultimate goal to fit it in, that’s one part, instead of saying, just oh, well, keep your receipts or make sure the mileage checks, those one line answers to three or four questions indicate the person is probably not, either is engaged and they are going to give you the time, or they are probably more about, here it is. STEVE: Okay, so this is really good, we are going to pause here for a moment, because… this is really good, if I heard you correctly, what you are saying is if they have a simple A or B answer, that’s no good? MARC: Usually, yes… STEVE: Okay, usually… these situations are dynamic… MARC: Yes, and they depend on the overall… So, obviously once have a CPA in your account say, hey, Marc, can I deduct this? And he goes, no, that’s okay, that happens, this time you are not asking stuff, the answer is simple, no you can’t, okay do this, yes you can. But when you are interviewing a CPA and in this interview, don’t just say, oh, I know somebody, okay, here you go, stuff… talk to them, interview them, so, I say interview attorneys too, don’t just… whenever you have a professional, especially a professional, interview them and talk to them, make sure you think that they can do it, they are engaged and you can work with them. STEVE: Fantastic. What about these small shops who… maybe just a couple of employees, but the and for one thing I know about myself and I know about most entrepreneurs is, we hate the books… MARC: Yes, so that is why you have a good CPA or a book keeper and ask them to do a monthly or quarterly book keeping and here is the thing, they are going to give you a quote, they are going to ask to see some stuff that can give you a valid quote of how much it is going to cost per month to do everything. And what you do when you get that quote and you shop around, you go to a couple of different accounts of CPAs and get quotes, then you ask yourself and you do an exam that I am sure you tell everybody to do, how much time does it take you, as the business owner to do this, this and this and you add up all these hours to do all these stuff that they are doing in this proposal. Now, ask yourself, how much money you could have earned with those hours in your business, which is what you are good at, as opposed to doing this and work it out. STEVE: Absolutely, we have a video, we have a link to it in the show notes called “Ownership Responsibility Value” and work through that exact formula. So, that’s great, how would… how does somebody know, so okay, find a couple of 2, 3 book keepers, how do you interview them and what do you do to open up your books... do you say what do you think? MARC: No, when you go to them, you talk to them, you ask them a little bit… hey Marc, how have you been down here, how long have you been doing this? You know if they are a CPA, you know how long they have been a CPA… and then they say, so, here is my situation, give a brief overview of my situation, I have this, I do that, and see what they say, some people may go straight to, hey, can I see the tax return? Some people may ask questions, there is really not a right or wrong there, because especially if you start getting a little long-winded, they are going to say, just give me the tax return, at this point you are explaining all that stuff and it’s like you are probably going to a little more extraneous details than they actually need… STEVE: Okay… MARC: But, bring the tax returns, bring the bank statements and you ask them questions about… do you feel comfortable with them? Ask them some basics, hey dude, do you… how many other painting companies do you deal with? How many of your clients are under 3 employees? How many of your practice is business versus personal? Because all CPAs do 10, 40 individual tax returns. So, how much individual do you do? If the person does 95% individual and has 3 businesses, maybe you say, okay, may we look at someone else, maybe you are like, hey I am going to be the forth, I don’t need a lot of handholding, okay, or you can go to someone who’s got 85% of the businesses and most of the individuals in the business. And then, the thing is more of a judgement at that point, how much does that matter to you? What’s the feeling you got from that? Because there is no right or wrong answer at that point, now you sort of feel, what are they doing in there, in their field and then how many employees they have, because if they’ve got several employees, the chances of you actually getting to them or them actually really looking at your stuff are probably slim than none and they may be awesome, the junior who they’ve hired, may not be at the same level that they are, and if you are going to get junior doing your tax return, do you have the same confidence that… you know… STEVE: And would you say it’s just as important to check and refer us as we would prior an employee? MARC: Absolutely… who we know, if you go find a CPA, have 2 or 3 people, that’s why I like BNIs, it’s a great resource, because most probably if someone isn’t BNI, they’ve got testimonials, hope… if nobody is giving testimonials then there should be a problem, they should begin there, that’s the start, so if you can get testimonials from people, ask people, if you know somebody says here, go and ask on… or do the whole Facebook recommendation thing, go and ask Facebook, what is recommended for CPA and see who comes up with it, if you got somebody come up with 6 names, then name 17 times out of 40, that’s probably a good one to start with… STEVE: Yeah, absolutely. Now, what is an EA? And how important is that a CPA is an EA? And I believe you are an EA MARC: No, I am not… An EA is an Enrolled Agent, and that is an individual who has taken the exam that the IRS puts out, to be able to practice before the Internal Revenue Service. Me, being an attorney and CPAs being the CPA are automatically granted that by right, nature of our license to do so as long as we are in good standing in A state. STEVE: Interesting, that’s why I though you are an EA MARC: Yeah, because I can do it. So, if you want just your books done right and you have no worries, your EA is irrelevant, because the EA is when you have tax issues and need them resolved. Hopefully you are not getting to that point… STEVE: Okay, absolutely… let’s circle back a little bit… we talked about corporations, what is the difference between sole proprietor, LLC, S-corp, C-corp and impact this slowly for us, for those who want to know if they are in the right one or they should make a shift MARC: Well, and that’s going to be after some consultation, that’s really hard to make, a sole proprietor is somebody who has nothing, but use their name… Steve Burnette painting, not Burnett 1800 painting, Steve Burnette painting, Donald Robert CPA, those are sole proprietors, they don’t have any requirements to deal with bank accounts or whatever, they do have to get an EIN, if they have employees, and everything they earned on their profit is subject to self-employment tax, which is an extra tax above income tax… On the net profit, corporations and LLCs are business entities, why do people say C-corps, S-corps… at the state level, it is a corporation, you form a corporation or you form a limited liability company, and people form these for two reasons, tax or protection, 99 times out of a 100, there are some exceptions to the rule and each day it is a little different, but a corporation is the vehicle designed for large companies, they are going to have public shareholders, make large amount of money, have a lot of certain deductions and have to pay out to the members and there was a way to keep the protection inside the company, so that members that were buying in weren’t at risk. The cost of that was paying an extra inside tax on the money, before the money got out to people, who received it and had to pay their tax, so S-corporation decided to say, we are going to make a difference, we are going to give you the corporation and give you the protection but the income will just flow out so you only pay tax once. But there are some restrictions on that, for example, you can’t have two different classes of stock when people invest, like you had a preferred shares, but you can’t have preferred shares in this corporation, you can’t have more than a hundred people, you can’t have a non-US resident, alien or citizen be a shareholder and the most important in an S corporation, if one partner takes money out, the other partner has to take their share out as well… STEVE: Interesting… MARC: Whether you like it or not… STEVE: What’s the difference in protection between S and an LLC? MARC: Okay, whether it is S or C, protection on the inside level doesn’t matter… so, corporation and LLCs, doesn’t… corporation… when you hear S or C, that’s a federal, sometimes state tax issue only, it has no effect on the protection of a corporation or not, whether it is C or S, the protection from the corporation, from a legal stand point is the same, no matter what… So, there’s two types of protection; inside and outside. Inside protection is simply that you are doing something on the job, within the job… something goes wrong and you get sued and that keeps your personal assets from being attached, you close down the business if you have to, but walk away, that’s within the business, no matter what, you are covered, you are protected, that’s what we call inside protection, there is no difference if you do it right between a corporation or an LLC, you get the same either or…. It’s the outside protection that there’s a huge difference, so outside protection is, something happens to you outside of the business, such as you many have back alimony you haven’t paid or child support that you haven’t paid, your behind done or you have a judgement from when you were trying to get your life together, say you have your house closed, they are not going to forgive the loan and they are still going to come after you for the money, it is outside your business, but they are going to come after you. A corporation does to protect you from that, your corporate shares are assets and they can attach those. STEVE: Okay, but how relevant are corporate shares to a painting company? MARC: Really, because most states require shares to be issued if you have a corporation and your share is your evidence of ownership, so if you are the 100% owner, you are supposed to have shares and if you have shares and they get attached, guess who owns the company, the corporation now, not you, your creditor… (After the Break) STEVE: How much protection does a sole proprietor have? MARC: None… Zilch in any which way he performs, no inside, no outside, end of story. STEVE: Okay, so if somebody started a painting company and maybe they are a sole proprietor, they are just getting going, should they go? What should they do? Should they… I heard you say it was dynamic… MARC: Yeah STEVE: So, any guidance what they should do? MARC: Yes, so basically, look about… first and foremost, if you are just starting, are you going to have employees and contractors or not? If you are going to have employees and contractors, most especially employees, form an entity, end of story. No matter what, form the entity, it’s not a question of anything else, because if that employee or that contractor does something wrong and you get sued, no entity, no protection… STEVE: Okay MARC: End of story, if you are not going to hire or use anybody else, it’s just you and your truck and your paint brush, your ladder, it’s probably cheaper to just get some insurance for what you are doing and make sure you have some decent insurance, and go forward… STEVE: So, just some liability or… MARC: Yeah, liability insurance, or if they don’t have an umbrella policy, if they are on the house, once they get an umbrella policy, because if you are just one person doing everything yourself, you don’t really get much protection from the company and what are you really going to do to cause the damage as obviously as the painter, I mean at what point are you going to cause more than two million dollars for the damage, it’s pretty hard, as a sole proprietor, just going around. Now, once you have contractors, a lot of the people, they are driving around or they are doing different things, and their effect is going to affect a whole lot more people rather than you, now you are going to get more risk. STEVE: Okay, you’ve mentioned partnerships a couple of times, so partnerships can be sticky for example… there is a common statistic that marriages will have 50% chance of ending up in divorce, what is it for partnership, do you know? MARC: No, I don’t have a number, sorry… STEVE: That’s okay, I was just curious, I didn’t think there might be one, but what are some things… I think it was just the last episode, we had four brothers on and they are partners, unfortunately they are brothers and they are just awesome Christian, so they’ve got a strong understanding and character and values, but that’s not the case for most partnerships, right? They all started off great, hey 50-50, it’s going to be awesome, we are going to make a ton of money, it’s will be great… MARC: Correct, so there’s two part to it, one, there is a part that is themselves and there is a part after… So, let’s take a part that is themselves, you are going to go into business with somebody, could be your wife, significant other, it could be your brother or somebody you have just known for 5 years that says, hey, let’s walk together, the biggest thing in the world is expectations. Before you can get started, what are your expectations for the company? And what are your expectations within this company, what are mine? What’s the work load split? How much work are we putting in? how much are we expecting? Can I afford to live on what we have as a budget while we are putting this together, before it grows to be the next billion-dollar company? Set those expectations down and talk about them, you don’t even need to get the attorney involved yet, because if you don’t agree that, hey, I thought you were going to put in 50% of the money and I am going to put in 50% of the money and you are now like, no you are going to put in 90% and I am going to put in 10% and I was going to work this amount. Well, that’s a direct split you can’t reconcile, end of story, you don’t even need the attorney, so expectations starting off, what are the expectations to find them? And then what’s the work load going to be? As an example, I had somebody call me, he was like, hey, my friend wants me to go and work for him, he wants me to be a partner in his business, and I would handle the finance and the contract etcetera and he would do the marketing and customer and actual web production, he was like, but I don’t trust him, he was like, because I don’t know if he is going to be straight with the money and I tell him to stop, my first response was, don’t go into business with him, he was like, no I want to do this and I said okay, fine, I will draft a disagreement, he is like, okay, no, change it, I want to do a new LLC and I am like, really? I am like, I can do this, but I am telling you, from your friend and as a client, it’s not a good idea, so I went and did it, he’s like, okay, let’s work on this, he comes back to me and says, no, I changed my mind, I am not going to, after realizing. You have to be able to trust this partner, I tell people all the time, you are going to business with this person, okay, do you trust them with the key to your house and with your wife and child? If the answer is no, you need to rethink this, or at least think it over seriously before you move forward… if you don’t trust this person, it’s ultimately a matter of trust in the beginning, do you really trust this person? Now, people change and you don’t know, but you ask that question, you could think you trust this person, but again, we don’t know what happens until the going gets rough sometimes, when people show what they are made of, that kind of stuff… STEVE: Absolutely, that’s really good… So, expectations, and do you trust them enough to keep them with your wife and children… MARC: Yes, once you’ve got to that point and you are sure, that’s when you go to the attorney and you say, we want this and we want this, in writing as to what we are going to do, well, is this a corporation which has a shareholder agreement or an LLC which has an operating agreement? You can put this stuff in there, now what people don’t realize is corporations, generally, people hear corporations, they hear bye-laws, bye-laws don’t address all these issues that I talked about and in an LLC, you have to do an operating agreement, that has addressed everything, you address those if you do it right. Of course if you don’t, if you put a trained monkey don’t do one, you basically got nothing, but if you put a you can do a shareholder agreement to address all these, an LLC will not need to address everything and if you don’t address it, I tell people, if you don’t address it with your business partner now, you are going to end up paying ten times what it would have cost you to have done this right in the first place, to have the courts tell you what you are going to be doing. And most people don’t usually like that, that’s not a win-win situation… STEVE: Speaking of win-wins, most partnerships start as 50-50, why might that be a really bad idea? MARC: One of the reasons is because a lot of partnerships are like 50-50, but at the end, we are going to go vote, and are going to try to make decisions, at 50-50, you are deadlocked, so how do you break that deadlock? And if you can’t break that deadlock you can’t move forward. So your company can stall without proper mechanism; 50-50. Second, a lot of people want to do something where they can get minority preferential treatment in bids and contracts, if it’s female or other minority owned, so all you can do is make a 51-49 or 60-40 split, but if you create an LLC, you can put all these protections in, just because you are the 40% person, you are not getting screwed by the person that has the majority votes, that’s one of the things that I love… I am doing that for a company right now, he’s got this product that he’s selling out, you know he wants to get the minority preference, he wants to put his wife as the majority owner, he wants to preferred himself in case of anything happens with him and his wife, that she runs the company and makes all the decisions, and she doesn’t really get the company. So, I as a good attorney can fix that, you can play with that, in an LLC, it’s a lot harder in a corporation. STEVE: So, somebody should have insured a majority, but just because you get the majority doesn’t mean you can’t protect yourself. MARC: Correct. And sometimes you can say, you know what? There’s a majority for voting, there’s a majority for money, so in a corporation, you are sort of stuck, but in someone, especially if passed to an S-corporation, but in LLC, you could say, listen, you are going to put in more money in, fair enough, we will give you more money back out, ahead of me, but I want 50% control, so we have to agree, or 51-49 and I want the control, you can do that split. Now, a lot of times, what I do, I tell people, if you have the deadlock, I put in the agreement, you find the third party that knows that area and ask him, because people go, oh, let’s come to the attorney and I am like, well that’s all fine and good, but if you guys are discussing a painting issue or growing your painting company, why are you coming to me to ask for expert opinion? I don’t know, I don’t know about painting, like I am not going to help you out on that, go to somebody else that knows that and ask them. Now, legal stuff, yeah, come to me and ask, and say hey, we need financial advice? Come ask me, but… so, I say, find an expert and talk to them… but if you don’t put anything in, then you are going to be screwed, because then you can’t make a decision, and essentially if you don’t agree, you have no recourse but to go to court… STEVE: That’s awesome, that very helpful. Now, selling a company, what does somebody need to know, how do they prepare, what… so Marc I come to you, say Marc, we’ve got this… April and I had this weird idea, we are going to sell our company… MARC: Okay, so first thing I ask is, how much are you going to sell it for? Then I say, where did you come up with that number? Because, what’s going to happen is you need someone objective who knows what they are doing, to look at your books and say, this would merit a price increase of x or a price of y, to sell the business, all things been equal. Now there’s always certain things that are out of the box, that you have this unique packing system, that there is a big craze for? That hey, that has the value that you are buying the business for, for that, as opposed to the business, as a business-operating-bringing-cash. So, actually the first thing I do is, I tell people, when you formed the business, think about what your succession plan is, going forward, what’s your ultimate goal with this business, do you want to be a 100? Do you want to sell it out to somebody else? Do you want to give it to your kid? Because based on that you need to prep, I usually prefer, when people want to go sell their business, start prepping, a year to two years in advance, because as we know with a lot of the trades and restaurants, cash flows through, cash doesn’t always get recorded on the tax, right or wrong, we all know it happens, cash is king. Well if a lot of your cash is king, then you can be very hard to ask for a price on your business, because people look at your numbers and say, why do you want this? Well, I take $40,000 of cash in a year, well, okay, do you want me to believe that, I tell you one horrible story, one restaurant here in Venice, the individual who sold the restaurant was putting money in for fake sales, paying the sales tax on it, so the number looked higher for the buyers. And the buyers bought it and paid more because they thought the sales were higher than they actually were… STEVE: Oh no. That’s bad MARC: Yeah… So, that’s why you do your prep, you do your work, so you can be prepared to show, this is why I deserve what I am asking for… STEVE: Okay, NDA; how important is NDA, what is an NDA? MARC: So, an NDA is a Non-Disclosure Agreement, it’s different from a Non-Compete, which is different from a Non-Solicit, people use these terms interchangeably and they are not. One, Non-Compete, the person who works for you cannot work in the same field at a certain period of time, doing what you do, Non-Compete. Non-Solicit, whoever leaves you cannot come back and go after your clients. STEVE: Interesting, so that one is not very popular or common? MARC: No, not common and then Non-Disclosure means you cannot disclose any information you obtain for any reason, except for the purpose you’ve received it, this is used often when people are looking into buying or selling a business, you sign a Non-Disclosure, hey, let’s see the financial so we don’t use it, etcetera. But you can also use it, if you don’t have the proprietorial system, such as a DYB coaching for example and someone is interested in the coaching program, you want them to sign this Non-Disclosure because if they decide not to buy in, and they have gotten some information, you don’t want them going and taking it elsewhere. So that’s a Non-Disclosure, and so you can do an agreement that has all three, but sometimes you don’t need all three, I have had somebody say listen, if somebody comes work for me, I don’t care if he works in a set of shops next door, I just don’t want him to go after my clients, Non-Solicit, fine, Non-Compete, I don’t care if he works for another company, I don’t care if he dissolves the company up, I don’t care, I just don’t want him to go after my clients, that’s a Non-Solicit, so it depends on what you want, what are you concerned about? then you know, get that. STEVE: Awesome. Very good, so as we wrap this up, Marc, this has been awesome, is there a question I should have asked or another point or comment that you would like to share with me? MARC: Yes, two of them actually. One is that, if you are going to form a business entity, 95% of the time, an LLC is the way to go, so picture your state change and talk to somebody, but it’s going to give you more flexibility if you need it for what you want to do, because you can always choose to be treated like a corporation with an LLC, but you can use its flexibility for elsewhere. Two, if you do want to use an attorney, every attorney who is licensed to practice in the state you are in, has to have passed the bar and your local bar has a list of every attorney, so if someone says they are an attorney, or you are looking at an attorney, you can go to your local bar, in this case it is floridabar.gov, you can look up the person, it will tell you how long they have been practicing, if they are licensed to practice in that jurisdiction and it will show disciplinary history, if any. So, anytime somebody says, I am an attorney… look them up on Florida bar or the bar or maybe they were dis-barred and maybe they are retired, I can’t tell you when we looked through sometimes, and I hate to say this but… look through the disciplinary hearings for fun sometime, seeing what people are doing… and a lot of times, what it is, is people are practicing without license because they have been dis-barred and they still continue to take people’s money to quote and do work, they are not licensed anymore, so always go to your local bar, check out say, is this guy licensed? Is there a disciplinary history? What is his story? How long have they been working? And CPA is by the way the same thing, if they have a CPA designation, go check with the state, state has information for CPAs. STEVE: Okay, fantastic, very good. Anything else we should have asked or you like to share? MARC: Yes, last thing, sorry… STEVE: No, it’s good… MARC: License is an insurance, a lot of times, when you use a sub, they are going to ask… you are going to want to make sure they have an insurance, a certain type. Always understand that the first step is asking for a certificate of insurance and don’t let them give it to you, make sure it comes from the insurance agency who has their policy. People take it and modify it and play around with it, and you can’t trust it if it doesn’t come from the insurance agency. STEVE: So, the certificate must come from the insurance agency? MARC: Should come from the insurance agency and you have them send you the certs… STEVE: Become listed… MARC: Yeah, so list the person… so the agency says, here it is, here is the person, it’s valid. Now, again, could they have cancelled that insurance? Yes, they could have, afterwards, but at least it’s not fraudulent, it’s legitimate and a lot of time people don’t realize what it is, so they don’t even know how to give it, but that’s why this part two is have that written agreement, because if you get that insurance and you have agreement say they will keep your insurance and they violate it, now, A, potentially your insurance may say, screw you, but B, you now have them on hook of being in the wrong. STEVE: Okay, fantastic, if there could be one more things that you would have shared, what would it have been? MARC: The last thing I am going to say is, in general rule we all want to believe the good in people, so, we give people chances, we do things sometimes without as much structure, because we don’t think of the negatives and I want people to understand that the reason you go to an attorney or somebody is if something goes wrong, yes it may go bad, go well, nothing ever needs to be done, and that’s great, I hope so, but if it does and things happen, this is what you are trying to protect. So, as much as I like kelvin, the person I am sharing my office with and it might be compartments, our agreements in writing, as much as I like people or certain things, the agreement is in writing, it clarifies the expectations and just in case something happens… what happens if someone gets Alzheimer’s… this person will never betray me, no, now they got sick, now they have Alzheimer or something, now they are doing something that they wouldn’t have done, but they are, so now what? Didn’t expect that? Too bad. STEVE: So, written agreement is not, I don’t trust you, written agreement is clarifying expectations… MARC: And giving yourself a chance to avoid, when something unfortunate happens. STEVE: Okay, very good, that is awesome. So, Marc, I am going to share your contact information here in just a moment for those who would like to reach out to you… MARC: Okay STEVE: But first, how about some fun questions, because… MARC: Sure… STEVE: Alright, you are a dangerous, not just legally but physically and have a black belt in… MARC: …Taekwondo STEVE: How many countries have you lived in? MARC: Lived in? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5… STEVE: Five, how many languages do you speak? MARC: How well do I speak them… I have studied six different languages… STEVE: Six different languages, which is the most difficult? MARC: German was the most difficult for me… STEVE: German, interesting… okay, and food. You are a food kind of… I have been trying to encourage you to start like a food blog… MARC: I know and I have been starting and I have… STEVE: You will be the ultimate ABA for Venice, Florida as far as food blogs, I mean like, anytime we have a question about food, I just call Marc, food this, food that… what are some of your favorite dishes or types or styles of food? MARC: Sushi… STEVE: Okay MARC: Duck… STEVE: What’s the strangest thing you have ever tried with all the different countries you have lived in? MARC: The strangest thing was probably eating a fish that’s still living and breathing as you pull the flesh off the bone. STEVE: Okay, that good… that’s awesome. So, what countries? Germany, Japan? MARC: No, Demark, Switzerland, Japan, South Korea, United States. STEVE: Awesome, fantastic… Marc, it has been great to have you on... MARC: Thank you Steve… STEVE: For those who have been listening, more to value, we have tons of take away here and looking forward to hearing feedback from this episode, it has been very, very helpful, for those who like to follow up with you, how can they best reach you? MARC: Email is the best way to go, my email should be… I think marcmileslaw.com, that’s the best way, because I am running around, I am not always in the office and stuff… STEVE: So, I have that here, and that’s mmiles@marcmileslaw.com MARC: Yes, awesome STEVE: Fantastic. Marc, thank you so much my friend. MARC: No problem, my pleasure Steve, anytime, take care…

Welcome to all of our Becoming Your Best podcast listeners wherever you might be in the world today. This is your host Steve Shallenberger. And we have a tremendously interesting guest today. Our guest is a successful business leader and has influenced many many people for good. Welcome to our show today, Tim Sanders. Tim: Hey great to be with you Steve. Steve: I've been looking forward to this. Tim: Me too. Steve: Well, good. All right. Now, before we get started, I'd like to tell you a little about Tim's background. He spent his early career on the cutting edge of innovation and change. He was an early stage member of Mark Cuban's Broadcast.com, which had the largest opening day IPO in history. After Yahoo acquired the company, Tim was tapped to lead their Value Lab, and by 2001 he rose to a Chief Solutions Officer. And today he's one of the top-rated speakers on the lecture circuit. Tim is also the author of four books including The New York Times best seller "Love is the Killer App," which is an awesome book, "How to Win Business and Influence Friends," I really enjoyed reading that. Tim's book has been featured in Fast Company, USA Today, The New York Times, Boston Globe, and so on. He is a master storyteller who offers his listeners actionable takeaways that produce results right away. So I have been looking forward to having Tim here in our interview today. And to get going, Tim, can you tell our listeners maybe a little about your background, your story? What was it like growing up? And maybe some experiences that helped you see that you could be successful? Tim: Thank you. I grew up in Clovis, New Mexico. It's a farming community just east of the West Texas border. I'm sorry, just west of the...West Texas border. And I was raised by my grandmother. I was a special education student from second to fifth grade, which really, you know, taught me a lot of things. It taught me how to bounce back. That's for sure. Taught me how to fit in when people didn't understand who I was. But most importantly, my childhood taught me that anything is possible if I'm willing to put the preparation work in and seize the opportunity. In my adult life I had a period of time, say 15 years or so, where I was gainfully employed and successful to some degree but just not laser-focused on what mattered. You might say I was in a mediocrity trap. In 1997, I went to work for Mark Cuban about a year after I had gotten out of that trap and had a real paradigm shift about what it was gonna take for me to be successful for my family. When I worked for Mark Cuban you can imagine 1997, the dawn of the internet explosion. It was such a breathtaking opportunity Steve. But I remember those times mostly as being a student of the game. Something I learned from him. And I was a voracious book reader. I was a mentor to anybody I did business with. And by 2001 after he'd sold the company to Yahoo, I became Yahoo's Chief Solutions Officer right after the dot-com crash of 2000. So my team and I went out to rebuild hundreds of millions of dollars of lost business because all of those companies, like eToys, our big advertisers, had gone caput. And through those experiences, I built up a perspective that if we commit ourselves to lifelong learning, and we lead with love in our hearts for other people and expect nothing in return other than that they improve and pay it forward, you can accomplish anything in this world we live in. Steve: Wow, what a rich background and then to be able to take that background and, like, Clovis, New Mexico? You mean you can be successful if you were born in Clovis, New Mexico? Tim: I'll tell you something. Let me tell you something about Clovis, New Mexico. Little town, 30,000 people. I was on the debate team in high school, Steve. And we wanted to be nationally ranked. Now, it was a real kind of a pork chop circuit, right. There was the Las Cruces tournament, the El Paso tournament, the Odessa tournament. We had to get in our cars and drive over two hours to Lubbock, Texas, to go to a decent library to research for our debate. And we had to compete with, you know, Houston's Bellaire and Dallas' St. Marks and all these great folks in New Mexico, and all the big schools from Albuquerque and Santa Fe. But I'll tell you something, my senior year, we won state championship, and we went to the national tournament, and we didn't have nearly the resources of anybody we competed with. But man, I gotta tell you, and I thank my coach for this, we had heart. Steve: Wow! Well, I'll tell you I can attest that people from the salt of the earth communities like this can have a big difference in the world. Tim: Yeah. And I think too Steve, is that there's something in our values raised in that environment that makes us really good connectors. And I also think it makes us hungrier to find some way to get back that edge. And to look for those invisible resources that are out there, like knowledge that can really give us a leg up. And it makes us wanna give back too when we become successful, you know, there's a natural, very deep set generosity. And I gotta tell you, I come from it very honestly. I mean, the patriarch of our family is my great-grandfather the late great Tommy King. And he was one of the founders of Clovis when it organized into a city back around it, you know, after the Great Depression. And he was a successful farmer. And one of the things he did before the Dust Bowl era, right before it, was he engaged with some agricultural technologist and became the first farmer in that part of the country to use a circular farming techniques, which when the Dust Bowl hit, helped his farms survive if not thrive while others withered away. And in our family, one of the most poignant stories about Tommy was how much he gave back to other farmers who were in crisis. The ones that bullheaded, they wouldn't try circular farming knowing that the science said there was something coming in a drought. He was happy to give them microloans. He never collected on them. He would just tell people, "When this happens in the future, you pay it forward." And I believe that his philosophy really represented, you know, small town America. Steve: Oh, that's a great story. And then to actually go from being a special ed student to being successful, that's got to give hope to special ed students anywhere because, you know, they're behind a gun. And so, is there hope? I mean, like, can we make it? Tim: It's tough. I mean, you know, more background here. So my grandmother raised me because my mother abandoned me when I was in four. And it manifest into tremendous depression when I was a little kid. And it exhibited itself in discipline issues. And during those days, Steve, they really didn't have much to do with a kid, you know, when you're seven. So, all they really can do is put you in special education. And that experience was really challenging because it's not just that you're taken out of school, that you're ostracized. And when you go to church you're treated differently because, you know, you go to the other school. And I picked up the nickname Shortbus, and I really didn't shake that nickname till junior high. But I think the thing that I got out of the whole situation is when they put me back into the general population in the sixth grade. I had to deal with bullies for the first time. You know, when you're different you're gonna deal with bullies. For parents, this is a great challenge when a child is singled out into a program like special ed or frankly like gifted for that matter. And I'll tell you, I think my point of view about how I dealt with that traumatic sixth and seventh-grade year had to do with how I felt about love. I'll give you a classic story. So, in the seventh grade, the day that you wear your nice clothes and your nice white shirt for the picture, you know, for the yearbook? Steve: Yup. Tim: I went in and this bully who went to church with us demanded my lunch money and I hesitated. So he punched me right in the nose and I bled all over my shirt. Not gory but I bled on my shirt. It ruined me for the picture that day. When Billy, my grandmother, came to pick me up, I thought she was gonna just, you know, have it out with that boy's mom, or at least give him a good talking to. So when Billy and I are sitting in the vice principal's office and we're alone for a second, she turns to me and she looks at me and she says, "You know the problem here is that you don't love those boys enough." I remember looking at her and I point at my shirt and I said, "What do you mean? He's mean. He's a mean boy." And she said, "In our family, you don't love people because of who they are. You love people because of who we are." And she goes, "That's gonna go a long way with you fitting in at the school." And so she said I should invite him over after church. Because she believed that people were inherently good and when they were mean, or when they were bad, there was something about the story that you don't know. And so he came over after church and stole some of my stuff and still kind of picked on me but he didn't punch me in the nose. And then I guess he felt the duty to invite me over to his house a few weeks later on the other side of the tracks where he lived. And when I visited his home that Sunday afternoon, I realized why he was a bully. His father, a drunk, swore at him coming in through the front door. His older brother whipped him with what, like a horse bridle, in front of me. Later, and I realized that this guy had been going through a lot more than I was. And that he was manifesting it. He was a big guy. He was manifesting it by picking on the only thing that he could get away with picking on, that's a little guy called Shortbus. And once I had that breakthrough, Steve, it really changed the way I thought about people. I truly began to understand that if we give someone our love and we care about them, whether it's on a personal level like this or on a professional level like say someone that I manage, you'd be surprised how many of their problems go away. And how you can convert a bully into a blocker. And I gotta say, that guy and I became good friends. And a little bit more than four years later, he put up posters for me when I successfully ran for senior class president and won. And I realized that for the rest of my life, I'm gonna go out into the market and love people because of who I am, and it's very easy to find things about them that are incredibly easy to love. And that I'm assuming when people don't give back, when they don't do the right thing, when they're mean spirited. I'm assuming that there's something about their story or struggle that I have no knowledge of. And it's made me a much deeper listener and a much more curious person in a good way. Steve: Well, that's a fantastic experience and thank you for sharing it. How grateful are we for the people in our backgrounds that help us grow and develop and overcome maybe some of the deficiencies that we might have that we may or even may not be aware of, that help us start becoming what we're capable of becoming. So that's really an inspirational story. And then love is so powerful and we may talk about it more after our interview but after...well, I was going through my college career I sold books back East. And one of the great books that I read was "The Greatest Salesman in the World", "About the Scrolls," and "I Will Greet This Day With Love In My Heart," and "How Will I Greet Those That Treat Me Poorly Love." And, oh, my goodness, you just fill this tremendous power that comes from it. So I'm so glad you shared that. Tim: Well, thank you. And I will tell you, there's real science or at least there is real psychological research behind this. And if you think about it, this is a manifestation of Maslow's hierarchy, right? Abraham Maslow studied something he called B-love, that is being love. That is a detached form of caring about another person, like I care about another person whether or not you care about me. I care about that person solely because I wanna help that person grow. I don't care about that person because I need a new friend. D-love, Maslow brought about this, a deficiency based love, says, "I need to be loved." So everything I do from being friendly to making, you know, advances, whatever you do to try to go out and help people, you're doing it to solve one of your problems. So, next we'll talk about the idea that when we feel fulfilled in terms of how much we think we're cared about, and that the way we think about love and other people, again, whether it's personal or professional, when we do that, we are making the leap to becoming like self-actualized, if you will. And that it's the most powerful way to think about loving other people because there's no anxiety in those relationships because you're not expecting anything in return. And that's what makes them so beautiful. And I found in my business life, that as a leader, as a manager, as a colleague, this works even more. Because, you know, we need people to encourage us at work. We need people to care about us as customers. And I believe too many people are just traders, transactionalists, and don't bring that Maslovian, you know, B-love to work every day. Steve: Okay. All right. Well, that's a powerful point of view and force in our work lives. Now talking about how to be successful in what we do in business, in our work, and in life generally, it does take work and effort and doing certain things that make a difference. So you shared earlier, that as we visited, that you had made a discovery in your mid-30s that led to ten promotions and helped you achieve a strong financial position and financial security. Can you talk a little about that? What was that? Tim: So this is like 1996, 1997. I had been coming back into my studentship, and I had gone from just need to know in terms of learning to being a voracious reader of books. And not just on stuff that mattered to my current job but anything that was adjacent to it. Anything that I thought was interesting to know in the future. I was at a point Steve, where I would read a book a week. I would burn through these books. I'm not talking novels either I'm talking about complex books in some situations. And what happened was I began to talk about different things with clients. So when I go to work for Cuban, I had this mentality kind of fed by Leo Buscaglia as love on one hand and Steven Covey on the other. I had this mentality that I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna promote other people's success during a time of great change. Because you know the internet was disrupting everything. So I worked a lot with the retailers. So I would go out and work with Neiman Marcus or Victoria's Secret or whomever. And I took it upon myself to learn everything I could about their business future and their business challenges, and then share that with them. And that's where I had the big aha. That if my business practice was to aggregate my intangibles, my knowledge, my network of relationships, my ability to care about people. If I build those up so I can give them away, and systematically help other people make the leap without expecting anything in return, that faith would repay me with endless referrals, a powerful brand, and a magnetic value proposition inside my company. Because I make decisions with Mark, I start to adopt the style. I was a sales person of service out in the community. We accomplished a lot of great things. He sells the company two years later to Yahoo if you remember back in those days. When I transfer out to the West Coast at Yahoo, I've really refined the system of building relationships by sharing my knowledge, and my network, and my compassion in every interaction. And it was like the doors swung wide open. Because now it's 2000, now it's right after the dot-com crash. This idea about helping people finds success during times of great change and expecting nothing in return. Boy, it worked crazy good in Silicon Valley and that's when I begin to train the young Yahoos on this philosophy and this set of values. And that's where I begin to write down the steps I was taking to really document you know how I read books and how I chose books, and why I read books instead of articles, and what I talked about when I was networking. And that's where "Love is The Killer App" came from a few years later. And since then, you know 15 years, I've been traveling around the world meeting people, comparing notes and really building upon that philosophy. Steve: Oh, that's great. And as we've talked about with our listeners the twelve principles of highly successful leaders, these are the things that are present across the board for high achievers. Also they were able to sustain, really, success over a long period of time, both personally and professionally. And one of those was applying the power of knowledge. In other words, gaining knowledge in the first place, and one of the primary ways is being a reader. And so this is a great reminder to every one of us listening here today of the power of reading good books on a regular basis because they're just totally stimulating, aren't they? They just fire... Tim: They are. Steve: ...your mind. Tim: And what I like about books is that books require you to take a deep dive into usually a narrow subject. And you don't just learn a couple of data points and one story, you learn a construct. It's got a thesis, and it's got supporting anecdotes, and it usually has research and it's really meaty. And you can deeply understand the topic so you can give it away, right? So the twist here Steve, is read good books but have a mix. And what I say about this is every third book you read, read for someone else's benefit. I call it prescriptive reading. Think about what... Steve: What's an example of that? Tim: Yeah. Think about information challenges that the people have and go study on their behalf because talk about expanding your resume. Steve: Right. It gives you a whole different perspective to maybe a different discipline. Tim: Absolutely. That's made a big difference for me. And that was another part of my turnaround in the late 1990s that really shifted me away from the idea that, you know, I read books to help myself. No, I read books to help the world, and sometimes it helped me too. And that philosophy will keep you from being too laser-focused on what's in front of you and not focused enough on what's coming in the future. Steve: Okay, great. That's a powerful influence on our success. And you told this wonderful experience that you had personally, this story about the bully and your grandmother saying, "Listen, we need to love him." Tim: That's right. Steve: See things from a different perspective. So you must have learned, Tim, somewhere along the line that love can be applied across the board, in business and as an entrepreneur. What have you found? Have you been able to make the jump of using that in your personal life to a professional life, and what's the experience? Tim: Yeah. I've made it my professional strategy, you know, for the last 20 years or so. I mean, when I say love in a professional sense, Steve, I mean, that I have a set of emotions about you. I care and I am now committed to promote your success by sharing my intangibles with you, my knowledge, my network, my compassion. I want you to think about, for those of you listening, I want you to think about the mentor in your life who's made the most difference to you. There's maybe one. There's maybe two. Maybe some of you might have three, but there's maybe one, right? And I want you to really think about how that person felt about you. And I want you to think about how open that person was to loving someone like you, not as a family but just as a person maybe at work or just a person maybe they did business with. I'm talking about unleashing the capacity to do this every day. I developed strong emotional aspect for almost every single person I do business with, and I don't make them earn it, Steve. It happens quick. Maybe I start out by liking him and I look for things that other people don't look for. I wanna hear their story so I can admire their values and understand their point of view. I find things that are familiar about them. I experience their passion so I can really understand what makes them a unique person. I think our capacity to care about people that work quickly and then maintain that over time. I think that is oxygen for leadership. Steve: Absolutely. That's so powerful. I mentioned the research that we've done for 40 years and these principles that are present, you're doing them? Tim: Well, you know, we're thinking alike buddy. Steve: We are thinking alike. I mean, one of those was living the golden rule, really exceptional leaders. I mean, you can have leaders that are good in different contexts but when you put these together, and exceptional leaders also one that really cares about people. And this is manifest in how they treat others, how they learn about others so that they can bring the best out within others. And this is what starts creating excellence, so great going on this. Tim: Thank you. Thank you so much, man. Steve: And by the way, Tim's book "Love is The Killer App." He talks about these three things, knowledge, networking, and compassion. Would you mind touching on the compassion part a little bit? And I'd like to go back to the networking because you said one thing that is important, and that is how a mentor maybe ought to perceive others with this love, learning what their story is? How do you bring out the best? And you'll find mentors that have done this the same way for you. So, how can you be a good mentor? That's one question. And then we'll hit this other one before we're done. Tim: Absolutely. So, the best way to be a mentor is to remember that the mentor is usually a benefactor, a teacher of sorts. And their job is to give the hero a gift that will enable the hero to make it to the next stage of her journey. When you think about Homer's Odyssey, with the character mentor, when you think about the archetype of mentorship stories in very modern culture, like, say, Star Wars, with, you know, Yoda, or with Karate Kid in Miyagi, that's what it's all about. It's about finding that person that has heroic qualities. That's going somewhere a little too fast. You've got a gift for them, maybe it's your personal experience. You've been where they've been. You have knowledge that they need and you give it to them. You expect nothing in return but that they apply that knowledge and learn and improve. All the mentors, they gain enthusiasm from the student learning. And when they need to, they go beyond just sharing information and perhaps make vital connections to create alliances, to help that hero deal with upcoming adversity. As a mentor I just want you to think a little bit like Yoda. And I want you to not really think so much like a person who's like a fire hose of information, a person who's gonna "Take somebody under their wing." I think you need to think about your role very transitionally. But most importantly, you need to expect nothing in return other than that they hero seizes the opportunity, right? I think that is what changes the game. And by the way, you know, I know you talk a lot about how to be successful over a long period of time. My philosophy that we give without expectation, this is not lip service, Steve. I literally expect them to pay it forward but I don't expect them to pay it back. And I'm telling you that is liberating, because when I meet leaders who were generous for years and years and years and then they "Burned out." This is why they got burned out. Because just enough people didn't pay them back or give them credit or whatever their reciprocity was supposed to be and they were disappointed. And I call it ego economics. And it sets in on a lot of people in their career. Super generous in their 30s, a little bit jaded in their 40s, super protected in their 50s. I'm 55 years old, I've never been more generous because I'm not disappointed in people. And I think that's what comes with being detached about what you get back. Steve: Oh, great. You know that's great. I think even the savior of mankind, Jesus Christ, if you...regardless of what you believe, as it was described when he healed the lepers, and he had one return and thanked him. Nine did not. And if your expectation is that people are gonna thank you, you're probably gonna be somewhat disappointed. Tim: Absolutely. You will. Steve: If that's your expectation. Tim: And it's interesting. So, you know, I love that story and I appreciate that example. I think that, for us, the secret to a long-term career is a very flexible perspective. And I think that if we're willing to go against the grain that there's a quid pro quo. I think we really open up our opportunities in life. You just continue to be great until the day we die. Steve: Wonderful. What a refreshing wonderful perspective. I had a friend, Tim, that I had lunch with last week. He is a facilitator for a very successful training company. He has been, really most of his career 30 years, he's gone all over the world. And one of the things he talked about was precisely this, is that his observation is one of the keys for companies to get ahead today to be able to be a best in class, be the best in their industry, is to have active healthy coaching program within the company where people are able to coach each other. And I think it's really these type of qualities you're talking that would help that be successful. Tim: Absolutely. And for leaders, whether it's a small business or an enterprise, you can create a culture of coaching. So even if there's not a funded program per se, it can be the habit inside that organization. So Tom Ward was brought into Barton protective in Atlanta to turn that company around several years ago and he created that culture. He had something called Vision Quest. These values cards everybody carried with them. It was a huge part of the cadence that he had in that company. And the third value was love. "Do you care about me as a person?" He hired based on it. He rewarded based on it. He promoted or did not promote based on it. It made a big deal to how people behaved, because culture at work, culture at work is a conversation that's led by leaders about how we do things here. And that's like software that runs a company, right? So, when you as a leader go to work and say, "We coach other people because of who we are as a company," then the habit sets in. And it's very attractive, Steve, to today's millennial, to have a reputation for a company where we bring each other up as opposed to where we internally compete. So I just want everybody listening to know this is within your power. And you don't need a big checkbook, but you do need to have consistent cadence because you need to manage that conversation about how we do things here successfully. Steve: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am, like, speechless that we are out of time. I can't believe it. Tim: It goes that quick, man. It goes that quick. Steve: It has been fast today. Now, any...what's one last bit of advice, or any tips you would like to give our listeners before we wrap it up today. It's been fun Tim. Tim: Hey, it's been fun buddy. So I'll tell you a place where you can get some stuff about me, but before that, I'll just give you one of my...it's kind of my new little piece of advice I like to give people. And I can't say that I came up with it but I can tell you I'm championing this idea. If you want to be a happier person in, life in traffic and in work, the next time somebody irritates you, does something that is seemingly rude to you, I want you to assume that that person is operating under the best intentions. I want you to assume that you don't know the whole story. Because more often than not, Steve, people are operating under the best intentions. It's just that their needs clash with our needs. And we spend a lot of our time judging those people instead of inquiring about the rest of the story. So like I said, next time somebody cuts you off in traffic, you might wanna consider that she's trying to get somebody to the hospital before you honk your horn and shake your fist. And this goes double for you as business owners and leaders. Steve: Oh, that's great advice. I hope I can get this right. This comes from an article I read yesterday and it really left a deep impression on me. It was given by the leader of a worldwide organization, a humanitarian service organization. And the fellow talked about 50 years ago, he had a mentor. And the mentor said, "Every time you meet somebody, if you'll say to yourself this person is dealing with a serious challenge," he said, "You're gonna be right 50% of the time." Tim: And guess what? Before, when you just reacted and judged that person, you were wrong 50% of the time. Steve: Exactly. Well, he said, "Man I thought my teacher, my professor was a pessimist," he said, "But I have come to learn what wise advice that was." Because indeed as we look around what's going on in the world, it is often true. And I love your comment that half the time we're wrong. So let's give everybody a lot of slack here, right? Tim: On that, you know, again, yeah, let's put our self in another person's shoes. And let's find out more. You can learn and grow so much more. You can expand your thrive so much more. And, again, you can just avoid those regrettable mistakes we all make. Steve: Yup. Well, these are some great things that we can do to make a difference, to lift others, to build others. Tim has done a great job in sharing these. What a tremendous background. And, Tim, if you'll share how our listeners can learn more about what you're doing, and which is tremendous? We'd love to hear about it. Tim: Absolutely. We've set up a special page for your listeners, Steve. It is timsanders.com/byb. That's timsanders.com/byb. I'll have a huge download excerpt of Love is The Killer App for you to read. I'll also have a way you can connect with me on LinkedIn, and find other resources like videos and other such content on my site. Steve: Well, that's terrific. Thank you Tim Sanders for being part of this show today. This has been enlightening. It's been wonderful. Tim: Oh, absolutely. It's been a pleasure Steve. I really enjoyed it. Steve: Well, you bet. We wish you all the best as you're making a difference in the world as well Tim. Tim: Thank you. Steve: And to all of our listeners, never forget, you are creating a ripple that can never be counted for good as we do the right things, good things. And they do make a difference. They lift our own lives and they lift others. And they help us be more successful, happier and have fuller lives. I'm Steve Shellenberger with Becoming Your Best Global Leadership wishing you a great day. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

We add new content daily! Listen on iTunes: iTunes.ExitcoachRadio.com. See the Index for more on this Topic or by this Guest. Transcript:  Steve: What are some of the tips and strategies and precautions that you give business owners if they're starting to look at business insurance? Greg: You go for a second opinion. And I wouldn't get that second opinion from some person that sold through the policy. That, to me, would not be a second opinion. And I'd also have the work done from a firm that's not a captive firm, inside a single life insurance company. So, captive agents are, shall we say, encouraged by their parent companies to keep coverages on the books. And, I'd also ask the auditor what they're gonna do for you if you have someone offer to do a policy audit. Make sure they're just not going to try to find you a replacing carrier under the disguise of a policy review.  To hear more tips from over 750 Advisors, visit exitcoachradio.com Listeners: You asked, so we found FREE solutions for 5 of your top problem areas. Text “TOOLBELT” to 44222 or click here

Click above to listen in iTunes... I LOVE video…. And traffic. I have over 200 videos on Youtube now and here's what I wish I'd known… Steve: Hey, everyone. This is Steve Larsen. Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio. Announcer: Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio where you'll learn marketing strategies to grow your online business using today's best internet sales funnels. Now, here's your host, Steve Larsen. Steve: All right, you guys. Hey, I'm super excited. I'm super pumped for today because we get to talk about something that has always intrigued me. It's actually kind of the way it got started in internet when I first started working for Paul Mitchel and driving internet traffic with one of my buddies. Since then I really haven't done much so I'm excited to welcome on to the podcast an expert in this area, thank you so much, Nick Arapkiles. How are you doing? Nick: I'm great, man. Thanks for having me on. Steve: Hey, thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on. I was just looking through Facebook messages before you and I got on here and I didn't realize I think you had asked if we could push the time back and I'm such a morning person, thanks for getting up this early to do this. Nick: Hey, no problem at all, man. I'm happy to do it. Like you said I'm not much of a morning person, but when someone like you gives me an opportunity like this I'm happy to get on. Steve: It's nice that you did, I appreciate it. For everyone listening, this really is probably the first time, I mean, this is the first time that we'd really spoken like this. The guy that connected us is Ben Wilson obviously. Ben is the guy. He and I we're doing that things, Paul Mitchel and several other companies just think the world of him. He sent me a message and he goes, "Dude, I got this awesome guy. He's the man." I think I still have the message just to put it on the podcast or something. It's pretty funny. He's like, "This sweet guy, man, he's this genius and he said he wants to come." "Hey, sweet." I'm always looking for talent, for people because I get boring for everyone I'm sure. I'm excited to have some mix out. Nick: It's kind of a funny story. I met him at an event here in Colorado and then I actually ran into him at the Rockies, in the baseball game. Then he messaged me about you and here we are. Steve: Dude, that's great. What event was it? Nick: It was actually for a book publishing event ironically ... Steve: He told me he's going to that. Okay, cool. That's fantastic. It's funny this whole internet marketing world, it's actually a lot smaller than people think it is because people get in it, they'll get out of it, they'll get in it but the people that stick around I don't think there's ... Anyways, get around quick. What is exactly that you're doing then? You told me that you're awesome with YouTube which is awesome. Most people forget you can even advertise there I feel like but what is it that you're doing? Nick: Basically, I've been doing this stuff for a lot. Do you want me to just go on to my story a little bit? Steve: Okay, man. Let's hear it. Nick: Okay, cool. I've actually been online for about six years now and two and a half of those first six years were complete and utter struggle. It's usually the case with a lot of people's stories. I don't think I'm too much different... Steve: Anyone who says otherwise I feel like they are just lying or throwing a sales video. Nick: Yeah, I mean, it sucked at the time. Obviously it sucked at the time not having, you always expect when you get started you're thinking you're going to make money in your first day, first week, first month at least but it was tough man, it really was. I forfeited a lot of things going on. I was actually in college at the time... It was the summer before my last year of college so all my friends were going out partying and going to pool parties, different stuff like that. I was just dedicated to this thing. I essentially locked myself in my room that whole summer and I was dedicated to making it work and I didn't even make it work that entire summer and even years after that. It just led me on this path I think once you get into this like you're essentially infected with the entrepreneurial bug as I like to call it. You can't really go back from that. I mean, I kept on trying different things. I even went into the trading Forex and stuff like that but eventually came back into the marketing realm and that's where I am now like you're asking I've done a lot of YouTube stuff. That's the big thing is I really always focus on driving traffic because if you can drive traffic then you have a business. You really can do anything, it depends on what traffic you're using. Most the time I promote different funnels like business opportunities or just affiliate programs... I haven't really dove into much of my own stuff. I just leverage other systems that people put out and that's pretty much what I'm doing but it all stems from driving traffic and then calling people from YouTube into my world. I like to really call it my world more so than my list. I think a lot of people say my list or build a list. That's great, obviously you need to build a list but I think it helps me come from a better mentality than it's I'm building a list of people or a list. It's more so I'm building an audience of people, they are in my world now. Because I think a lot of people secure a list and they just think of numbers and what it really comes down to is that these are people that are interested and they want to connect with you and they want to learn more. You have to treat them as such and I think when you do that you get a lot better results. Steve: Interesting. That's interesting. A lot of people I know will talk about, they'll have you fill out something. Who are you trying to attract? What's their likes? What's their dislikes? What do they hate? Sometimes I feel like that gets pretty artificial after a while. You're just targeting people like yourself. I feel like it's the easiest way to go... Nick: Yeah, to be honest I didn't express this fully but basically what I do right now is I don't actually do too much advertising where I'm paying for the clicks and stuff like that. It's mostly just all organic. I've done a little bit of advertising here and there but the big thing is just putting content up. I know you're asking if I could drop some nuggets for YouTube and stuff like that but the biggest thing is just to continually put out content just like any other type of platform whether that's Facebook, Instagram, even Snapchat now. It's just continually putting out content because the more content you have out there, the more likely people are going to find you... I mean, there are some videos that I have that have seven views but there's also other videos that have 100,000 views. You never really know exactly which videos are going to hit. You might have an idea depending on the keywords and how optimized your videos are but the biggest thing that I stress and every day I learn more and more, I'm always learning is the fact that you never really know exactly until you start putting up content which videos are really going to stick and gain some traction until you upload them. Steve: That's interesting you say that. Back in college also I started really, really diving into this also, same thing. I sucked at it. There's a guy I listen to and he was saying, "You should always be publishing. Try and get a way to be in front of your people. Produce content." Just exactly what you're saying. I started doing that and making all these Periscope videos and I would put the recordings on YouTube. I can't tell you how cool that was. Stuff started happening when I did that. The exact reason you're saying. I had some videos that were terrible but then others were completely surprising to me. People started watching them and pushing them around. What the heck is this? My products started getting sold organically. I was like, "This is kind of cool," I totally agree with that but I have to ask though, you're putting YouTube videos out. Try to put as many up as you can. How do you rank a YouTube video? It's hard to... these words for spiders to go crawl and stuff like that like a blog post. What are some strategies you use to actually try and get them out there? Nick: It almost feels like it's changed throughout the years, I think the algorithms and everything. I'm not that geeky like that but I just noticed some trends here and there. As of late, I've noticed that a bigger channel with more subscribers and just a little bit more authority, maybe it's been on for a little bit of while or a little while, those are the videos that's pushing up towards the top of the search engines. You can pull back links. I know that probably gets a little bit more complex. I don't know if you're familiar with back linking. Steve: 100%, yeah definitely. Nick: Okay, I just didn't know if your audience would or not but that's basically you can go out there and get some other people to put your video in a bunch of different places. The idea behind that is that the search engines see your video all over the place and they are like, "This must be a video that is good. Let's start pushing it up towards the top of the search engine." Especially a couple of years ago that was huge and it definitely got me a lot of results but the thing again that I've noticed lately is that just having a big channel and having some decent subscribers and having people actually watch majority of your video is what's really pushing your videos up. I've had some videos where I just started making videos and they don't get much traction at all but then I have one of my bigger channels and I just put it up and I don't really optimize it at all, I don't really do anything to it and right away it's like one of the first videos on the search engine. Steve: I hear of Traffic Geyser. Nick: Yeah the name sounds familiar. Steve: These sites where you just submit your video and they'll just blast it across the internet so that you could get more views. I mean, totally spam-my stuff, you know what I mean? It's the dream for every entrepreneur or internet guys to just put your stuff everywhere. What strategies do you use for finding people to put your videos up? You know what I mean? Did you have to find related channels to yourself? Nick: Not necessarily. I use a website called Fiverr a lot of the times or at least I used to. I haven't been using it as much lately but it's a really cool website. You're obviously familiar with it but I'll explain it for your audience. Basically, it's just a website. It's called fiverr.com, F-I-V-E-R-R dot ‎com and basically it's a site that has a bunch of people doing a bunch of different gigs. They'll literally do anything for you for $5. I think there's a processing fee now for like 50 cents. Essentially people will do anything for you on the internet. I should be more specific with that. Steve: It's funny though because I've had people like, "Rap my name." I've had people, "Beat box stuff," they'll do anything for five bucks. Nick: Exactly, there's a lot of different stuff that you can do. Basically I just go on there and look for back links or maybe social signals and it's not to complicated. I mean, you just have to find someone with good rating, good track record and just test them out and that's the whole thing that I always tell people too is that you just have to test things out. You'll never really know what's working, what's not working until you go out there and actually apply it yourself... I think a lot of people are always asking me for the secret, asking me for different things that are just going to make it click and they're going to make hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's really never the case. You know this just as well as anybody is that you actually have to go out there and do the work, see what's working, see what's not working and then throw out the stuff that's not working and then just ramp up the stuff that is working... Steve: This is one of the reasons why I laugh so much when you brought up Fiverr because it started out as a great class. I'm sorry if anyone's listening that was in that class. It was like an SEO class in college and it started out great. We're learning all these cool strategies for SEO and things like that. Then it just got like the strategies were really old. I've been doing it long enough by that point that I just knew that what I was earning wasn't significant or anything. He's like, "Hey, what you're all going to go do is you got to go create a YouTube video and think about a topic a lot and the competition in the class to see whose video can get the most views." I was like, "I could totally game that." We went and we made this, you know that, "Do you even lift, bro?" Those videos that are out there right now, have you seen it though? Nick: I'm not sure. Steve: "Bro, do you even lift?" Nick: Okay, yeah. Steve: The next Star Wars is coming out and we said, "Do you even Jedi, bro?" We made all these funny videos of people. It was pretty cool but I totally went to Fiverr and I paid this dude $5 to send like 10,000 bot clicks. For no views at all to just this massive spike and we went and we gave the ending presentation stuff like that like we have over 10,000 clicks on this thing and everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing." It's in the last few weeks and what's funny is that we ended up getting contacted right before the class ended by this ad agency. They were like, "Hey, we want to use your video to promote Star Wars stuff on." I was like, "Okay." None of them knew that this were like ... I'm sure that 50 of them were real clicks out of the ... Maybe. What's funny though is that obviously YouTube after a while can start to see if that's crap. The views on the bottom went from 0 to 10,000 to 12 and it stayed there. We're looking at the analytics for a while and then just totally drop. They took away all of them all the way back down to 3 views or something like that after the class was ended. Anyways, the only reason I bring that up is because A, it was a total failure and I knew what happened. I knew enough about that world that time but it was I mean, how do you go through Fiverr and figure out who's going to be sending you real clicks and not. You know what I mean or who's going to be pushing your video around the right way or not? Because most of it ... I like Fiverr for testing a lot of the lower level stuff but it sounds like you've got a cool way to do it that isn't that way. Nick: Yeah, that's actually a good point... I'm glad you brought that up because that's very important that you find good gigs because if you are sending a bunch of fake traffic to your YouTube videos it can get your video shut down and even your account shut down because YouTube will recognize that and they see that you're just throwing all these views on there and they are all fake. They don't like that. I've had the experience of getting a lot of my stuff shut down because of that in the early stages. Anyone listening, make sure that you're not sending crap gigs over to your videos because YouTube will shut that down real quick. In terms of finding good stuff, basically I just make sure that the vendor has a good track record. There's one specific guy that he's probably one of the bigger gigs. He's got so many different gigs on there. I'll just let you know his name is Crorkservice. Steve: Crorkservice, you know, I might actually seen him before. Nick: I'm sure you have. Honestly he's probably one of the best out there and he's got the best ratings. He's like the top of the top sellers... I mean, it's no hidden secret. You just have to go through his gigs and figure out what exactly it is that you want. If you are going to purchase views I really haven't done that in a long time. I know there are some people that do it and they do actually have success because again like I was saying before, if you can get high retention views where people are watching the majority of your video, that actually can really, really help you with ranking your video on YouTube in specifics. Just make sure that is a high retention view and again it has a good track record because that can definitely help with rankings on YouTube. Steve: Interesting, okay. What are you doing? I heard some people talk about we’ll give some formula or outline for what to make, what to put in the video to make sure that they’ll push pass minute seven or whatever it is. Do you have anything that you would recommend there? Nick: Yeah, for sure. There’s a couple of things. The first thing that you definitely need to know, basically how I get all my traffic for the most part is it’s all based on keywords. People come into the search engines and this is just like general in terms of search traffic. Basically people will come in, they’ll be searching for something, I mean you and I have done this just as much as anybody else is that they have a concern, they have an issue, they need help with something. They come into the search engines and they start typing it out whether that is how to lose weight, how to grow tomatoes. It doesn’t really matter, it just pertains to whatever your business is but they’ll start searching things in and then they’ll find your videos if you start uploading videos, you do it on a good channel, you start optimizing it. Your videos are going to start rising towards the top of the search engines. What you need to do when you’re making your videos is that you need to let your viewers know that they are at the right place. Let’s say for example that you did make a video about how to grow heirloom tomatoes for example. What you need to say in the beginning of the video, you need to let your viewer know that they’re in the right place at the right time. You say, “Hey, you probably landed on this video because you are looking, you started searching out how to grow heirloom tomatoes,” right then and there they know that they are at the right place. That's what starts it out and then if you can get technical and say, you need to say this, you need to say this, but I think it ultimately comes down to is that you need to let them know that they’re in the right place and then give them value. I know it sounds stupidly simple but I think there’s many people out there that just like they’re trying to heighten all this traffic, all this stuff through your website. People are smart, you can’t bullshit people... When you’re genuine, when you give value and you’re just a real down to earth person then that’s when people recognize that. People will connect with you just on that fact based alone, they might be coming searching for information they want to learn how to grow tomatoes or lose weight or whatever it is. A lot of times people just want to connect with somebody and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had that happen where people just, they’ll hit me up on Facebook and they’re like, “Yeah, I mean, your video is great and all that but you just seem like you’re a down to earth person, you seem like a good dude and that’s why I came out and connected with you.” Steve: Interesting... I have had it happen before also and I never realized that that was probably it. I’m trying to be authentic on camera, you know what I mean? I’m just being myself and I have people come back and say, “Hey, you’re the man. I have this feeling when I was talking to you I should reach out to you,” and I was like, “What kind of feeling? All right, thanks.” Interesting. Yeah, that’s cool you bring that up... There really is as simple as that just answer the question, let them know that they’re there and then connect with them. There’s a guy I was listening to and he was saying something like, “The first 20 seconds you have to do something crazy to keep their attention. The next 60 seconds then you got to teach a little nugget then the final two minutes do something that’s also a little crazy to make sure they come back next time.” I was like, “Man, that’s a lot. All right,” but that’s so much more simpler route to do that. What kind of timeline do you usually look at when you’re trying to rank a video? You know what I mean, like how long it usually take? Nick: Again, it’s kind of goes along the same thing I was talking about just before and there’ll be a lot of people that say, “You got to make two to four minutes.” I certainly agree to that to an extent because like I was saying before it’ll help you start ranking your videos a little bit more if people are watching more of your video. If you have a shorter video it’s more likely that people are just going to watch more of it. If you have an 11 minute video then obviously less people are just going to watch it just because everyone has shorter attention spans. It does depend on the video that you’re doing because specific keywords especially like I do a lot of reviews. I’ll be honest that’s where a lot of my traffic comes from, a lot of my buyer traffic. That's just kind of a nugget right there. If you can start doing some reviews like that’s going to be some of your best traffic out there. I’ve got review videos that are like 10, 11, 12 minutes long and people watch the majority of it because buyers, think about this, buyers will watch, they will watch everything and they’ll read everything because they're thinking about it from your perspective. If you’re going out there and let's just say for example you want to buy a new MacBook or yeah, let’s just go with that example. Are you going to go to the website and just like look at a couple of pictures and then buy? No, you’re probably going to be going, you’re going to watch the hour long keynote presentation, you’re going to watch the ten minute video that shows all the details and all the benefits and features on the MacBook. You’re going to be talking to people, you might even reach out to a support. Buyers they will do their research. To just tell you, “You have to have it four minutes long,” or, “You have to have it ten minutes long,” I can’t really tell you that exactly because if you just target keywords that are buyer keywords, people are going to be searching that stuff until they make that buyer decision. Does that all makes sense? Steve: Yeah, it does. That’s a great insight. It’s not like a two to four minutes, there's not a hard fast rule, it's just hey whatever is … Make sure first that you’re actually delivering value and answering the question and coming back to them. Nick: Yeah, and if you’re asking for a short answer, I would say keep it shorter if you can but if you need more time to explain everything that you need I think there’s nothing wrong with that. Steve: What kind of buyer keywords? I mean is there’s a trend in good buying keywords, you know what I mean that you’re saying? Like across mostly internet or things that will pull your videos apart because those keywords are more valuable or you know what I mean? Nick: I’ll just be honest, review videos are probably the best videos that you can possibly make. Steve: Really? Nick: Yeah, because the reason people are coming and looking for reviews is because they saw a video or they saw a product and they’re a buyer. They’re looking for more information on that, they want to get everything they can possibly know about that. Once they figured out, once they see your video, once something clicks and they make sure it’s the right product for them then they’re ready to buy right there. Does that makes sense? Steve: Interesting. Yeah, 100%. I was just thinking too I’ve got like, I don’t know, 150 videos on YouTube but 90 of them are unlisted or whatever so that I can put them inside of websites and things like that. Do you have a preference at all? Have you found that there’s any kind of, I don’t know. I don’t even know, favoritism given to people who stay on the YouTube website versus watching YouTube video embedded on a page? Nick: I haven’t really done too much embedding on different pages so I can’t really speak for that. One other thing I was going to touch is the fact that you can actually look at your analytics too and you can see which videos people are watching longer. You can see the average duration on how long your viewers are staying on your video... Steve: Yeah, I love the stat section in the back of YouTube, it’s nuts. Most people don't look at that by a part but it’s pretty fascinating. Nick: Yeah, it’s great stuff and I actually just like within the last few months I’ve really started looking at that stuff a lot more and it’s really helped me. We just go back to the whole thing about testing seeing what works and then start doing more of what works. That what I was doing is I was really taking a look at the analytics, see what the videos that people are staying on for a long time and then just making more of those videos. Because there’s some videos where people are staying on for less than a minute through an average of 10,000 views. I’m like, “Okay, that obviously didn’t work so let’s throw that away. It was a good test, that was some good feedback, I won’t do that anymore so let’s move on and let’s find something better.” Steve: I just wanted to touch on something because this really matters a lot in kind of my world. I build funnels all day long, just tons of sales funnels and that’s kind of what I was looking through on your site mentorwithnick.com which is super cool, everyone should go there, mentorwithnick.com. You’ve got a quiz there and we’re a huge a fan of quizzes, it kind of pre-frame people. You got a welcome video from you and automated email that I got and then a link over to $1 offer. Kind of a cool biz opportunity there or business product I should say. Usually what we do when I build these types of funnels. You just kind of took me through in that mentorwithnick.com is we’ll always take those videos and enlist them and put them inside a funnel. I mean, I never let people just sit inside of YouTube format. I think it’s interesting that you just said … I mean it sounds like almost all of your review videos they’re all on YouTube anyway which makes sense. That’s what people are searching. That’s fascinating though. I guess I’m just recapping that. That’s cool though. Do you ever embed it all I guess, I mean you obviously did on that welcome video with Mentor With Nick. Nick: Yeah, that is one place that I do embed, I kind of almost forgot about that but those are like the only places. Mostly just like welcome videos or I like to call as bridge pages, like you said I do promote different things, different opportunities and stuff like that. What a lot of people will do is they’ll just send traffic directly to an offer and while that can work for sure like I’m not saying it can. Steve: It’s rough though. Nick: Yeah, pre-frame that a little bit and kind of just introduce them, kind of welcome them into your world. That’s a big thing it’s just like saying, “Hey, I’m here for you,” like, “I got your back,” like, “Don’t worry,” like, “We got this taken care of and you know I’m going to introduce you to this thing and you can certainly take us up on that but if not, you know, just connect with us.” So many people just want to connect with somebody, that’s what my whole video is about and after they opt in it’s just kind of saying, “Hey, I’m here,” like, “If you need anything from me you’ll be receiving some emails from me and you know I’m here to help you out.” I think that’s just a lot better way to do things instead of just like hard driving traffic to offers... My honest opinion that’s going to drop convergence but it’s also going to drop your audience where they just think that you’re just trying to sell them all the time. Steve: Yeah, 100% I agree with that and I was impressed with that video that you put out there, I thought that was really good. I always draw out funnels like crazy and in my world we call it funnel hacking. I was going through your funnel and drawing all that out, the emails that came, things like that and it’s not like you need that welcome video, the one from you. Technically you don’t but I thought it was interesting and cool that you put it in there because I watched the whole thing and it made sense to me is like, “Hey, there’s a lot of trust and there was a lot of ...” What’s the word? I can’t think the word. After watching the video I was like, “Hey, this guy is real. That was cool. What a good video,” and it set me up because I have to tell you when the next video started I was like, “Eh.” I don’t know but because I watched you, I was like there was a lot more trust, like a lot more stock in that video. Anyways, great example right there, I thought that was fantastic... Nick: Thank you. I appreciate that. Steve: Yeah, everyone go checkout mentorwithnick.com, that’s an interesting process for a bridge page right there. That’s really good. Nick: Thank you. Steve: Do you send people to quizzes a lot also? Nick: I use that capture page right now because it seems to be converting the best. I’ve noticed that in the past like I even got opt in pages like that up to like 50% opt in rate for all my traffic which is really good. Right now I’m sitting at around like 39%. I mean that’s for the best that I’ve done. I’ve tested with a lot of different stuff and everything else have been kind of sitting around like 32 to 33 maybe like a little bit higher than that. I just use that because it just kind of like gets them invested... They have the two step opt in and you are obviously very familiar with all this stuff and that works really well where you have to click on something that makes it a little bit more congruent. They’ve already invested a little something to make sure they put their email address in but the survey just kind of adds a little bit more like they’re taking a quiz and then they’re like, “Okay.” Now, they need to put their email address in and they’re already a little bit more invested so they’re more likely to continue with that action, that whole congruency. Steve: 100% plus then you can follow up with them, you got their email address and you can re-market to them and ask them if they got the trial. Yeah, great for you, great for them. Yeah, I completely agree with that too. I had this quiz who’s probably about 50% also, same thing. It’s just quizzes are great things for people. It was only like four questions but it set them into my … It was the same thing that you did which is what I was laughing at, “Where did you hear about us from?” and it was like, “Facebook, Oprah, Obama mentioned me,” and then other. I’ve never been on those things before but because they heard those names first and then your name last or even other, it’s a lot more stock also. Just increases your authority like crazy, not that you want to be deceptive but it does give you more authority. The next question was like, “What age range are you in?” and these are questions that sometimes don’t even matter or you can ask questions that just kind of poke them in the eye a little bit. “How much do you make on your side business every week?” “Zero. A hundred bucks,” and then just, “I got to choose the lowest one.” For a weight loss product, “How many products have you tried?” but at the time your solution comes up they’re like, “Man, he’s right. I fail every time at this. I do need to buy this product.” That’s interesting though. Cool. Hey man, I don’t want to just keep taking your time. I appreciate you getting up early to do this with me. Where can people learn more about you and join your world like you were saying? Nick: You can add me on Facebook, that’s a good place. I am kind of maxing that out now. Lately I’ve been going pretty hard with getting people add me and everything like that. My friend list is kind of maxing out right now so I did also start up a new Instagram account, a new Snapchat account which my usernames are Mentor With Nick, just kind of goes along with my website. You can also go to my website like you mentioned before which is mentorwithnick.com. Steve: Mentor With Nick Instagram and Snapchat, mentorwithnick.com also and then also on Facebook. Hey Nick, I appreciate it man. Thank you so much for taking the time again and for dropping all the nuggets you did. Nick: Yeah, for sure man. It was fun. I always love getting on with like-minded people and just chat marketing something I’m very passionate about. Steve: Yeah, I appreciate it. Everyone else usually who talks about it, sometimes they feel alone in this world. Anyways, it’s cool to meet you man and I do appreciate it. Nick: No problem, man. Happy to be on. Steve: All right, talk to you later. Announcer: Thanks for listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Have a question you want answered on the show? Get your free t-shirt when your question gets answered on the live Hey Steve Show. Visit salesfunnelbroker.com now to submit your question.

Steve: Hey, everyone. This is Steve Larsen and welcome to Sales Funnel Radio.   Speaker 4: (music starts) Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio, where you'll learn marketing strategies to grow your online business, using today's best internet sales funnels. And now, here's your host, Steve Larsen. (music ends)   Steve: All right you guys. Hey, I am super excited. Today I've got two very special, kind of unique guests on the podcast. As you guys know, a lot of times, I record my own thoughts on things that Russell and I are doing to make marketing awesome, but I like to go and interview other people as well. Today I've got on the show with me, it's Dallin Greenberg and Kristian Cotta. These guys have a pretty awesome unique way for building funnels. Anyways, I want to welcome you. Thanks for joining me.   Dallin: Appreciate it.   Kristian: What up.   Steve: Hey. I actually was thinking about it and Dallin, I don't even remember how we actually met. It wasn't that long ago, was it?   Dallin: Ah, no, not very. Just a couple weeks.   Steve: Just a couple weeks ago.   Kristian: I think Dallin met you the way that him and I kind of joke about he's the black box back alley hacker. He does all the ...   Dallin: If there's someone I want to meet, I find a way.   Kristian: He's the unconventional guy. You won't find his practices in a book or a manual.   Steve: Crap, that makes me a little nervous.   Dallin: Yeah, don't mess ... I told Kristian the other day ...   Kristian: Not black hat, black box.   Steve: Yeah. We can call it whatever we want, right? No, just kidding.   Kristian: Yeah.   Steve: Well, hey thanks for-   Dallin: I told Kristian, the other ... Oh, I'm sorry.   Steve: No, no, you get a say. Thanks for letting me wake you up at the butt crack of dawn and still being willing to share some cool stuff.   Dallin: Yeah.   Steve: How did you guys start meeting or working with each other?   Kristian: I'll let Dallin take that one.   Dallin: Yeah. I was working on a kind of unique project. We had a guy up in Scottsdale that owns a software. He's the developer. It's a software that does algorithmic stock trading and he was stuck with his marketing. He's a big guy. He's got a lot of stuff going, but anyway, we were trying to help him get some plans going.     I had actually watched Kristian on Periscope. I'd met a lot of guys on Periscope and one day I noticed Kristian was actually in Chandler, which is only a few miles away from me. Like I said, if I see someone, I'm going to find a way to meet him, so I'll comment in his Periscope a few times and little by little, end up getting his contact info. Day later we're in a Starbucks together talking about a plan that we can do, well I was more impressed with Kristian, what he was doing. My partner that I was working on with this marketing plan for this software developer, we were on kind of different pages. I have a background in sales and Kristian's dynamic was a little more my still, so my partner ended up leaving and I ended up asking Kristian, "Hey, is there anything on the side that you're working on or that I think we can do together?"   Steve: Mmm.   Dallin: Badda bing badda boom. We've ... I feel like it's the perfect love story. We've been hanging out pretty much ever since.   Steve: As long as he says the same thing, I guess that is true, right?   Dallin: Yeah. Yeah.   Kristian: Yeah, no. The funny thing, Steve, about Dallin is I'd been with ClickFunnels, I was one of the first 50 people that signed up for the beta version of ClickFunnels.   Steve: Wow. You're from the dark ages, Man, that's awesome.   Kristian: Dude. Yeah. We were just talking yesterday because we literally I mean the crazy part ... I'd been so resistant to start using Actionetics.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: Until I had to transfer from Infusionsoft to AWeber, AWeber to ActiveCampaign and we're trying to do something and it's like, "Dude, why don't we just use Actionetics?" It's all in here." I'm like, "Fine." We're switching everything over and I needed ... I'd been doing funnels and learning about ... like when I first signed up for ClickFunnels, I didn't know what a funnel was. I wasn't even sure what Russell had explained to me. It just sounded so cool and I was like, "Dude, I'm going to figure this thing out because what he's talking about and the numbers, I'm like, "That's what I need to be doing. That's it." I been doing this for two and a half years, which is kind of a long time in funnel years.   Steve: Yeah. Yeah, it is.   Kristian: It's not really that long of a time in regular terms, but I got on Periscope and started kind of talking about my business. At the time, I was trying to grow this fitness, be an online fitness guy.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: I'd used funnels to grow an email list of 3,500 people and I got on to Periscope and nobody cared about the fitness. They wanted to know how I was growing my email list and how I was doing my, how was I doing this business.   Steve: Interesting.   Kristian: Then I kind of became one of the funnel guys on Periscope and was a speaker at the Periscope Summit. I got this notoriety on Periscope for, they call me the King of Funnels. I'm like, "No, guys. I know some really big funnel guys on Periscope." They're like, "No, King of Funnels."   Steve: Wow.   Kristian: It's been like two and a half years of this little journey of learning funnels where it's been ... I'll tell you the three guys I credit everything to are Russell, Todd Brown and [Lo Silva 00:06:09].   Steve: Mmm.   Kristian: I actually had just finished the PCP coaching program with Todd Brown and those guys. Dallin, when he came to me was like, "Dude, this stuff you're talking about is awesome." I said, "Well, let's, I need a guy that gets it. That is driven and ... " that was Dallin. Now we've got this little, little agency we're trying to scale.   Steve: That's awesome, because good partners are hard to find. I remember I started doing this back in college. My buddy and I were driving traffic for Paul Mitchell and we were doing all this stuff. I ended up firing, going through nine different partners. It's cool that you guys found each other, you know what I mean? That's pretty rare just right there.   Kristian: Yeah. If you go back and talk about Dallin's ... there's a couple of key things that I was looking for, because I have an entire course. You love Periscope. I saw some of your Periscopes on YouTube and ...   Steve: Dang it. Man, those were the new days for me.   Kristian: Yeah. I was a speaker at the Periscope Summit in January.   Steve: Cool. Wow.   Kristian: Dallin's helped me develop this program and it's something that we've rolled out in beta and we're going to roll out as a digital product. It's called the Live Video Funnel. I've been working with Todd Brown and the guys at MFA on the entire sequence and the packaging and all that kind of stuff. They're calling Kurt [Malley 00:08:00] speaking at Marketing Funnel Automation Live in October and one of the things they're saying is that the biggest opportunity of 2017 is, they call it the Facebook Live Funnel, but I'm going to let you guys in on a little note. Facebook Live and Periscope don't work the same way. Even though they're both live video, they're different, so Dallin ... I needed somebody to help me with that aspect. I couldn't ... to be honest, you know this Steven,   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: I couldn't do all that, every single thing, every single aspect of a funnel.   Steve: No.   Kristian: The script writing, the copy writing, the editing, the videos for the VSL's, the strategy, the email marketing sequences, all the social media.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: What I'm really good, compliments what Dallin's really good at, like I said, his ability to get in on Facebook and recruit people. He has this really strong sense about building a team, which is one of those things that ... we both get along with people, but Dallin's good at that recruitment process. When you want to build and scale something and you need the right people, you need somebody like that.   Steve: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, it's hard to find that stuff. Dallin, you and I, we were talking a little bit about some of the trials you guys went through. Obviously individually you do, but you guys met each other, what have you guys been working on and I guess what was the ... What are some of the issues you guys have run on, I guess, getting to where you are. You know what I mean?     Unspoken stories, you know that where none of us put in our marketing hardly ever unless it's part of our sales letter. "I was in the dumps, but now I'm flying high." These are like, really what kind of issues did you guys run into what you're doing now? What are you doing now, first of all?   Dallin: Well, the majority of our issues actually are from more individual sides. We're actually doing really good with our projects together.   Steve: Mmm.   Dallin: Your typical issues you run in together are testing. That's what funnels are, right, it's testing, testing, testing, testing. There's always that down side until you ... it's just a numbers game, right, until you find something that works. As far as the personal side, because I believe that this kind of runs, this is the fire that's on the inside, the Y factor from what I call it, right. My background's in sales, so I did door-to-door for years. I think, Steven, you've mentioned that you flirted with that a little bit but, I was really good at it.   Steve: Yeah. Yeah. That's like, I'm sorry to interrupt, but that's one of the best educations I've ever had.   Dallin: Yeah. Yeah.   Steve: I've got a marketing degree and I don't know what I learned from it. You know?   Dallin: Well, that's actually just what I was going to say. I was going to school for business and marketing and be honest, my classes were super redundant. I hated them. I was like, "Man, this is for years I've been planning on doing this and ... " Anyway I got into sales and I did pretty good at it. I just kept going. I ended up doing more recruiting and for six, seven years going out on the summers and taking a team out and helping manage and recruit and sell.   Steve: Yeah.   Dallin: You learn so much from just talking to people, the sale cycle, funnels, a different type of funnel, right?   Steve: Yeah.   Dallin: Learning how to build value to the point where it doesn't matter what you ask for money, because they love it so much that they're going to buy. It taught me a lot. Well, long story short, I made my transition. I was doing alarms and home automation. I made my transition with this solar boom.   Steve: Mmm.   Dallin: Solar's on fire and fortunately for us, we live in Arizona, one of the sunniest places in the world. Solar was hot, but a lot of stuff was happening politically. A lot of the utilities are trying to shut down solar here just because of different costs. It's a mess. They succeeded and actually the utility ... There's two main utilities in Arizona. They succeeded shutting down solar where I live.     In order for me to get work, I'd have to go an hour a day just to prospect clients, let alone keep my pipelines, my relationships, my contracts, everything going, because they're longer projects. It was really funny because I was really bummed because I was really excited about this transition. It was a huge jump for me because we were so comfortable with what we were doing, making awesome money and it was kind of just this really big leap of faith. Well, last April, fast forward a little bit, last April, our little girl, our daughter, she was four years old. She got diagnosed with leukemia.   Steve: Oh man.   Dallin: When that happened, we literally were going to leave for another summer, two days after she was diagnosed. It was crazy. Everything was just happening and days and days and days sitting in the hospital. I had always wanted to do something online my whole life, but I didn't want to ... I didn't know exactly what was happening. I didn't know where I wanted to put my foot in. I didn't want to mess with inventory and selling one off things. I wanted to do something on a big level. I just didn't know how to do it.     In the hospital you got a lot of time to yourself and so I'd study these things. I'd start looking at different processes. I'd find patterns. I would sign up for everyone's email list, not because I cared about their product. I wanted to see their system. I wanted to study the funnel. I wanted to study the email sequences and I started seeing the patterns.     That's when I kind of got into a lot of this other stuff with Periscope and live stream. I was like, "Man, this is the future. I get it." I think every guy that's doing any sort of digital marketing has a day where they, it kind of clicks and they say, "Holy smokes. I can really ... This is powerful. This is how you can reach a lot of people." What everyone wants to do is have a voice and do something.     I ended up switching my major, going to school for persuasion and negotiations were my sayings. I was a business communication major and I had that emphasis in persuasion and negotiation. Looking back on everything now, it was just perfect. Everything kind of worked out really, really good. I was kind of like, my little side, so we really hit this kind of rock bottom where it was like ... financially we took a massive hit because I wasn't able to go out, drive an hour and do all this kind of stuff. This last year-   Steve: Yeah. You needed to be home. Yeah.   Dallin: This last year has really been an investment of my time and I just kind of feel like I went back to school. I feel like I'm getting way more out of this school than four years of collegiate, right?   Steve: Easily. Man, how's your daughter now? If you don't mind me asking.   Dallin: She's awesome. She's in a maintenance phase right now, got another year left of treatments, but she's ... hair's back and muscles coming back and went back to school. She's in a really, really good spot right now. Appreciate it.   Kristian: She's strong too. You should see her.   Steve: Really?   Dallin: Yeah.   Steve: That's amazing.   Dallin: It's from everything that she went through. She got down to, had to relearn to walk, lost all her muscles. She was a little skin and bones and now she's this little muscle ball.   Kristian: Now she's a beast.   Dallin: She's awesome.   Steve: I appreciate you guys sharing that kind of stuff. I mean it's ... because most of the ... I've never interviewed anyone on this who hasn't gone through something crazy, you know. It's not like the path is always clear, either. Usually it isn't.   Dallin: Yeah.   Steve: There's a lot of times I wake up and come here, I'm like, "I don't even know. I know I got to work on something, but I don't know what." It's like going through this hazy fog, so I appreciate that. Then there's all the personal side and all the things going on. Yeah, I first started getting into this stuff, little bit similar with door-to-door sales. I started looking around going, "What the heck?" We're driving out and there's all these billboards everywhere. I was like, "People call these things ready to buy." I'm knocking on people's doors all day long and they're not wanting to buy it when they wake up. I've got to go convince people who weren't planning on spend money. Like, "How do I do this?" I start putting ads everywhere and that's how I started getting phone sales and stuff. I was like, "There's something to this." Anyways, I-   Dallin: See, that's funny because I was kind of the same person. All the other managers are, "Dallin, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. It works."   Steve: DS, yeah.   Dallin: DS, this. I'm like, "No, guys. There is a better way." My motto in everything in life is there is always a better way. I don't care what you say and what's working. Something can be tweaked and something can be done to scale.   Steve: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.   Kristian: Which is funny, because Russell always says, "You can tell the pioneers because they're lying face down with arrows in their back."   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: I guess in this case, it wasn't really pioneering. You were trying to find the people laying face down.   Steve: Yeah. Yeah.   Dallin: Yeah.   Steve: Side stepping all the other people who were already face down because they knocked 400 doors that day, right?   Dallin: Yeah, seriously.   Steve: What are you guys working on right now though? You guys mentioned that there's some awesome things going on. What's your current funnel, if you don't mind talking about that? [inaudible 00:18:19] sounds like, maybe ...   Kristian: Dallin said like perfect timing. I feel like it has been. We joke about being a startup because ultimately we are, to the point that we're even in the process of creating our business plans and our SOP's and all that kind of stuff, so that we can talk to some investors. We have some investors that we're talking to in order to really have the capital that we think we need to be able to scale this thing quickly, instead of Facebook ads tested at $10 a day for 50 weeks.   Steve: Yeah. Yeah.   Kristian: Yeah. The whole reason I got into learning funnels was, you guys talked about door-to-door sales and I have 15 years of commercial real estate experience. I worked with clients like L.A. Fitness and McDonald's. I represented McDonald's for the state of Arizona and Burger King and Taco Bell, so pretty big name companies.     There's a lot of guys that would be happy with that, but the problem I had was that I kept looking at the deal size of what I was doing. It was constantly kind of like this feast or famine situation where you either had a huge check or you had nothing. Literally, nothing. It kind of got to the point where I was like, "Man, there's a better way to do this." Very similar. You guys hear the consistent theme here? There's a better way.     That was kind of the first step of me saying, "I'm going to figure out how to streamline this" so that it wasn't even so much ... I just kept seeing all the guys that were buying the properties doing all these big deals. They weren't even in real estate. They had these other businesses that were generating cash flow and here I am putting these deals together that are making, Dallin and I had this exact conversation, making these guys over a million dollars and they're like, "Oh hey, thanks. Here's 40 grand."   Steve: Yeah. Yeah.   Kristian: What's wrong with this equation? I'm the one that did the whole thing, the financials and all that. I just didn't have the money. That was the start of it.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: Then you add on top of it that we got into a network marketing company and did really well, but we got stuck right under about 10 grand a month for like 18 months. It turned into another full time job where I was 40, 50 hours a week at every Starbucks from east to west meeting people. I'm like, "This is not working."   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: Those two combined, I was like, "If I get online, I can figure out how to do both of these. I don't have to pick because I can leverage myself."   Steve: That is kind of the funny thing I learned about ... because I got into an MOM. I went and did exactly what my upline was saying. Got 13 people my first move.   Kristian: Oh, wait, your [inaudible 00:21:42] not duplicatable.   Steve: No. Not at all.   Kristian: I don't care. If I find enough of the right people, it won't have to be.   Steve: Yeah. Yeah. My first month, I recruited 13 leeches. Man, they wouldn't do a dang thing unless I was like pushing them in the back with a cattle prod. I was like, "Ah. There's got to be a better way to do this." That's why I took it online and did a lot better. I definitely relate with that.   Kristian: Yeah. The crazy part about this is, like Dallin was saying, he's, shoot, some of the advanced strategies ... Dallin's has this like ... he understands and can see what the outcome is that we're trying to do. He gets it. He gets the whole flow and process of this, of how funnels work. He's been studying them. I just think for a big part, he just needed to connect certain pieces and be able to see what's going on behind the scenes that you can't see online.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: We talk about ... the hardest part about knowing how to do funnels is focusing because when you understand it and it clicks and you realize what you can do, it's like .... Someone starts talking you're like, "Oh my God. I know how to make money with that. Oh my God."   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: It's like entrepreneurial ADD exacerbated.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: Forget entrepreneurial ADD. This is like an entrepreneurial ADD addiction.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: That's the issue, so we've had to get very focused on okay what's the quickest and most pressing thing at the moment that we can make money with, so that we can reach our long term goals. Like I said, Lo Silva is one of the guys that I credit a lot of what I learned from. There's three little things that I take from them and that's think big, start small, scale fast.   Steve: Interesting. Think big, start small, scale fast.   Kristian: Yeah, that's kind of our little mantra.   Dallin: Yeah. That leads into basically what we're doing now. Our whole plan without getting too much into detail is we have a very, very big picture. Just like a funnel, we have our personal value ladder. Our big picture is more in investments, real estate, things like that. Those are our high tickets. Right.   Steve: Yeah.   Dallin: For the time being, we need to make sure that we couple that with clients, so we have our lead gen system, our agency that's doing multiple things, SCO work and funnels, and social media strategies and management and that way it can help us scale. Our agency essentially fronts the bills and I guess the best way to put it is we want everything that we do to be self-sufficient. If we build something, the entire goal-   Steve: Keep it in hands.   Dallin: Well, yes and no. The entire thing is for that project to sustain itself, so you understand once you get going with your Facebook marketing and such, it gets to the point where you reinvest X amount back into it. Then it lives, it breaths on it's own kind of. It just needs to be monitored, right.   Steve: Yeah.   Dallin: If we have this solid balance between us of we have clients coming to us for done-for-you services, that's awesome. That's cash. That keeps us busy. That keeps workers of ours busy. Then in the meantime, if we can couple that with 40, 50% of our other time for in-house projects, because Kristian and I already have entrepreneurial ADD, we're always thinking of ideas. We always have something going on or a lot of times a client that comes in has something that sparks an idea.   Steve: Yeah.   Dallin: We'll, like you said, we'll keep them in-house and then we funnel them. We get them to the point where they self-sustain and all of a sudden, we have our house projects, our client projects and it's just a very healthy business model. You don't see a lot of very sustainable and scalable models. You know what I mean?   Steve: Yeah.   Dallin: Especially, because I've been with very, very, very big companies with these companies I've sold for and you find ... one of the things I like to do is study patterns and development. I'm really into the business development side of things. You look at the ones that have made it, that have succeeded and that are scaled to the massive, massive billion dollar companies and that's kind of what they do. They make sure they have kind of that happy medium, that solid balance in all these different areas and factors and that's kind of what we're trying to do.     One of the projects we're working on right now is a political campaign funnel. This is just one that's easy to scale and we're just pretty much hacking it and taking advantage events which one of the things coupling social media with funnels is current events, man. That's, they kill. If you can find something trending and good and that has ... that you can milk for a long time, you better believe we're going to find a way to make, pinch money out of it, right.   Steve: Yeah. Isn't it the-   Dallin: I'll let Kristian talk about that.   Steve: The political campaign funnel, is that the one you downloaded I think from Sales Funnel Broker?   Kristian: Ah, no.   Steve: Maybe that was you, maybe it wasn't. I don't know. There's some guy, he downloaded it and came back and he's like, "This is the coolest thing ever." I was like, "Just the share [funnel 00:27:53] free one I got from someone else. Glad you like it."   Kristian: Yeah, no. I got the idea from actually from Funnel ... I got part of the idea from Funnel U. To be honest, as much as we know about funnels, something clicked when I watched Russell's video inside the membership site for the political bridge funnel, where it was like, "I see it." It was that coupled with the, the funnel stacking I got that whole idea of moving them from a front end funnel to a webinar funnel to a high ticket and how you stack those.   Steve: Sure.   Kristian: Bridging and when all the sudden the bridging made sense to me, I said, "Oh my God." Just like what Dallin was talking about here. Ultimately our goal is to, take the same amount of time to do all this work to go and work with somebody and do a commercial real estate transaction, where we're an investor or we're buying the property and people are investing with us, as it does to sell a t-shirt. Just time is time, it's just the size of the value and how you frame your mind around it. We are in the process of growing our agency. The whole point of it is to, if you think of construction companies, really good construction companies constantly have work that's in place to keep their employees working, so that they have the best team, right.   Steve: Mmm. Yeah.   Kristian: That's what they're always talking about is we just have to keep work so we can keep these guys busy. It's not about keeping them busy, but we also want to have the team in place because ultimately when we have our ideas, we can get them shipped quicker.   Steve: Yeah. I've been approached by a few people lately and they're like, "I got these awesome guys. I absolutely love them." He's like, "What work do you have? I just don't want them to go anywhere else." He's like, "I don't care what it is. I just got to bill."   Dallin: That's exactly what it is.   Steve: Yeah, interesting.   Kristian: Yeah. That's the idea, but to get back to what we're doing right now is I got the idea of how Russell explained the political bridge and my dad had ordered 100 t-shirts from my best friend. My best friend did all the screen printing for the Super Bowl in Santa Clara.   Steve: Jeez.   Kristian: He's got one of the largest screen printing companies on the west coast, based here in Phoenix. He has a company very similar to what Trey Lewellen started with Teespring.   Steve: Interesting.   Kristian: He's set in and he came to us and said, "Hey, why don't you partner with me and just handle the marketing on this." He's talked to me about doing some marketing for them for different aspects of their company. Now we're working together and the whole idea came up I said, "Well, you know what? I think I can do it." Before I was hesitant because I was like, "Well, I'm in the digital media space. I'm selling digital products." That was big hangup was I've got to sell to these entrepreneurs.     Then when this political bridge funnel that Russell talked about when he talked about how you move people from this list to this list, I went, "Oh my God. I can build a list in anything. I can just bridge them." It was a combination of that video inside of Funnel U and my participation in Todd Brown's PCP, Partnership Coaching Program, where they were really working on educational based marketing, and script and copy writing. The confidence level in my own ability to write copy had shifted to where now MFA is outsourcing some of their done-for-you client work to Dallin and I and having me write copy and script for their video sales letters.   Steve: What?   Kristian: Yeah.   Dallin: That's real, man.   Kristian: That tells you the ...   Dallin: We scale fast. Remember that third principle. We scale fast.   Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I wrote all those down. That's amazing. What's funny is that people don't realize that it literally is the exact same amount of work to do a small company as a big one.     My buddy, I mean as far as building a funnel and things like that, my buddy and I were building an [inaudible 00:32:11]. It was the first funnel I ever built with ClickFunnels and it was a smartphone insurance company and we were ... we got out of that for a lot of reasons, but it was interesting though because I was building it. We put it all out. That's actually when I got into ClickFunnels and it was right after ClickFunnels left beta. I was like, "Hey, I'm going to build this whole thing out before my ClickFunnels trial runs out." I'd never built one and I just killed myself for the next little while. We got it out.     Then this guy approaches me in Florida. He's like, "I need a funnel for some of my ..." He was selling water ionizers or something. I was like, "Oh man. This is a big company. They're already making a couple million a year." I was blown away. I was like, wait, this is the same exact amount of work as it was for the small little startup. Anyways, I thought that was interesting you said that.   Kristian: Yeah. That's what we talk about is that it's easier to work with those bigger companies. They get it.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: You work with the smaller companies and they're worried about how much money it's going to cost them. The reality is that the more we put ourselves in a position to work with guys like you and Russell and guys like Todd and Lou Coselino and David Perriera and all them at MFA, they're saying, "Man, why are you, how come you're not charging double and triple?"   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: Dallin and I are sitting here like seriously if they're willing to pay us to write scripts for, to outsource their ad copy to us for some of their client work, what's that say? I mean, we're literally working with, doing work for the guys that are considered the best in the industry.   Steve: That's ... Yeah. Yeah.   Kristian: It's just a mindset shift is what it is. That has made it a little easier to have a conversation with someone and say, "You know what? We can take on this project. Here's how much it is."   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: They're like, sticker shock. Well, sticker shock. You can go and just have someone build the pages for you, but it's not going to convert. I know that for a fact because copy os what converts, right.   Steve: You know Tyler Jorgensen?   Kristian: You know what, it sounds familiar. I think I-   Steve: He said the same thing to me. He's like, "You charge 10 grand to build a custom funnel?" I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "Why not 15?" I was like, "I don't know. I'd never thought about that before." I thought 10 was kind of the mark. He's like, "No, no, no, no. I'd do 15, 20, 25." I was like, "You've got to be kidding." That is is just a mindset shift. You'll get better people to build for anyways, whatever it is.   Kristian: The big thing for us-   Dallin: True and at the same time ...   Kristian: Yeah, I don't know.   Dallin: You there?   Kristian: Yeah, you cut-   Steve: Kind of lost you there.   Kristian: The big thing for us is really to build a team, Steve, and to have that team in place and be able to have people that focus on all the different areas of the funnels, so that they get really, really good at that. They don't have to know the whole process because that's what I've spent the last two and a half years doing, right.   Steve: Wow.   Kristian: They can be part of this and be part of building something and helping these clients and really enjoy what they're doing. Then, like I said, when we have these ideas we can ship them. I know you want to know and your audience probably wants to know what it is that we're doing, which is what got you in. I mentioned my friend, Bryant. He's got this company like Teespring. He's got everything in place to roll this out. We had this idea for how to start doing that. We took advantage of knowing that the campaigns going on right now. I mentioned to you I think my dad bought like 100 Trump t-shirts from him. I was like, "Those are really cool shirts." My dad's like, "Yeah, man You should do this funnel stuff and figure out how to sell these to everyone. Look how crazy everyone is about Trump. Trump's going to kill it." At the time, it was still in the Republican Primaries. I'm like, "Well, I don't want to go build a funnel."   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: "Then trump doesn't win the primaries." But as he started pulling away I'm like, "Oh, let's start testing some stuff." We tested one funnel and surprisingly the Facebook campaign got a lot of clicks, but there wasn't a lot of opt-ins and conversions on the funnel. What it did and I think this is one of the biggest skill sets that people who are elite develop versus people that are frustrated and saying this isn't working for me is understanding the information that they're getting and what to do with it. You might not have a winning campaign or a funnel that's making money, but to understand what kind of info you're getting and how to use that to do the next thing is that whole testing process is what separates those that are killing it from those that are getting killed. That first funnel that we did, didn't make money. Not at all.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: I mean it lost $1,200. I went to Dallin and I said, "Dude, this is awesome." He's like, "Huh?" I said, "Look at the retargeting list that we got." Then we went and we tweaked this and I said, "What if we change the front end," and at that time Mike Pence had just been named Trump's VP. I'm like, "Who the hell is Mike Pence? I never heard of this guy before." I started asking people, they're like, "No." Unless you're from Indiana, you don't know who Mike Pence is. I go, "Should Trump have picked Mike Pence? Isn't there someone else." I'm like, "Boom. Is there a vice presidential debate in the Republican Party?"   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: We created a little mini survey around is Mike Pence the right one. First of all, you've got all these people that love Trump and they're hardcore republicans and now you're creating an internal debate. Everyone wants to voice their opinion, but they don't want to be judged.   Steve: Yeah. People get pretty intense about that for sure.   Kristian: Yeah. We created a mini survey.   Dallin: Oh yeah.   Kristian: We created a mini survey and we had this retargeting list from the first time and we started running ads. I didn't expect and I don't think Dallin either, that it was going to do as well as it did, but I mean, we had in less than 12 hours, we had 500 email opt-ins.   Steve: What? Oh my gosh.   Kristian: I was like, "Oh my God." I'm like, "Holy crap." I'm like, "What the hell's going on?" Of course the first goal is to try and get the funnel to break even. What we had to do was we were getting so much information so quickly that we really had to be on our toes and make adjustments and modifications. What we figured out through the first week of testing this is there's so much activity on this funnel. Just to give you the stats, after what was Dallin, really 6 days of running the ads, we got 2,600 email subscribers?   Dallin: Five and a half, yeah.   Kristian: Yeah. Five and a half days, we got 2,600 email subscribers.   Steve: Wow.   Kristian: K, the funnels not at break even, but here's what I want whoever's listening and whoever wants to take this information understand is the testing process. We figured out between two front end offers-   Steve: Which one was the winner.   Kristian: Which one's working better.   Steve: Yeah. Which one's the awesome one. Yeah.   Kristian: It's still not winning. Our free plus shipping is not, it's not helping us break even. The reason for that is because we're getting so many opt-ins. On a normal free plus shipping, you're not getting as many people clicking on the ads, right.   Steve: Right.   Kristian: Well, we're getting 5, 6 times the amount of people subscribing to the email-   Steve: Would you, in that scenario, would you ever try and get even less people. It'd be counter-intuitive maybe, but I would just start tweaking the free plus shipping, I guess.   Kristian: No. No. Well, no. We can't-   Dallin: The strategy-   Kristian: Yeah. We can't really tweak it because it's not like we're going to offer anything cheaper than free plus shipping. When you start looking at all the different things we can offer, there's not a lot of options, but here's what Dallin and I have figured out is that we think we've created a new funnel. It's not really new in the sense of what you and I and Russell and all these other guys think of.   Steve: True.   Kristian: In terms of Russel and [Daygin Smith 00:41:29] coming up with the black box funnel, right.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: It's just soft offer funnel, a front end soft offer. We think that we've come up with what we call a backdoor funnel.   Steve: Interesting.   Kristian: You get so many people on your email list. You get as many people to take the first offer and you get as many people to take your upsell as possible to figure out how close to break even you can get. If you look at 2,600 people, we go back and look at the numbers, only about 115 of those 2,600 ever saw the offer.   Steve: Huh.   Kristian: Now we have an opportunity to present those people with the offer again. Well, how do you do that in a way that's going to get a lot of people to open the e-     All right. Want me to ...We cut off here at the point of high dramas. As I was mentioning, we got so many email subscribers and such a lower number based on the email subscribers because we didn't expect to have that many, that we still weren't at break even, but we have a ton of people that we can show an offer to. It's a little different obviously because our price points ... We're doing apparel and things like that.   Steve: It's like delaying the offer almost on purpose, right. I mean this is ... awesome.   Kristian: Yeah. Remember, we started this whole thing with a survey, right, something that people were very passionate about, so a lot of polarity in there. They want their opinion-     They also want to know what everyone else thinks, where they fall in line here. We thought, "Oh my God. Somebody that votes, that voices their opinion, takes the time to put a vote in wants to know what the results are." We created a results page that shows them the results and has a special offer that all those people haven't seen. When we send it in the email and we tell them here's the results of the survey, the open rates are and the click through rates are sky high.   Steve: How long are you waiting to actually send them this results page?   Kristian: A couple of days, so-   Steve: Oh really. Wow.   Kristian: Yeah. I mentioned Actionetics. The whole reason that we started doing this is because we wanted to ... since we're having people take a survey and we're offering them this gift, we want to make sure we get as many people that take us up on that gift for taking the time to vote. We have a few of those triggers built in there, "Hey, don't forget to grab your free gift. We noticed you took the time, maybe something happened. Go back here and grab your gift." Then we make sure that everybody sees the results page a couple of days later.   Steve: A couple of days. That definitely is a different style for sure. You don't think that hurts conversions at all?   Kristian: No, I mean. It's a survey, right?   Steve: Sure.   Kristian: The point of high drama and the suspense and all that. We're still testing it, again, like I mentioned earlier that the biggest thing I think that separates those that are successful and those that aren't is to understand the type of information that you get.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: We may found out that we need to send the results sooner, but we don't know. We've got to test.   Steve: It's interesting positioning too of you saying, "Hey. It look's like. Thanks for taking it. Here's your results. I don't know if missed this, but just jump back and get that." That's interesting. Like they missed it. They missed the gift.   Kristian: Yeah. Yeah. "You forgot to grab your gift." That's our first step and then in the email that comes after they've taken the survey, "Hey, we're in the process of tallying up the results. We'll send them to you as they're updated."   Steve: Interesting. It keeps the loop open, basically.   Kristian: Hmm-hmm(affirmative). Exactly. Exactly.   Steve: Man, that's awesome. Well, hey is there a URL that we can go check that out on? I don't want to pollute or dilute any of your stats, so if not that's fine, but ...   Kristian: Yeah. We're just running ads to this right now.   Steve: Good.   Kristian: We're in the process of, like I said, this was just an idea that my dad came up with. I've got to give him credit for the initial idea, but now it's turned into kind of a new business entity, right.   Steve: Yeah.   Kristian: We're growing this email list and the concepts that Russell talks about the how to bridge funnels and lists and things like that. We're starting to build a list now in that republican, conservative, survivalist category. We're going to take it a step further and build out a home page and start doing some different stuff with it.   Steve: That's interesting. You're going to go through and who's going to keep opening all the emails over and over again, looking at all the stats of all the people around. These are the hyper active political caring people. You know what I mean? That's awesome. That's a really clever way to segment out those people. That's fantastic.   Kristian: Yeah. Yeah. You never know where your next business entity is going to come from.   Steve: Interesting. Gosh, well, hey, I know we've been on quite a while. Thanks for dropping all the bombs of gold you guys did. I don't know what happened to Dallin, but ...   Kristian: Yeah. He just texted, said thank you. He's trying to get back on, but I know we've got to take the kids to school and stuff, so-   Steve: Awesome. Well, hey man, I appreciate it. Thank you so much and this was awesome.   Kristian: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it, Steve. Love meeting new people that are doing the same thing as us and glad that we can reach more people that are trying to learn how this works and kind of help them understand the process and that if they just stick at it and keep testing. That's really the big thing I think is testing and learning is how you get better at it.   Steve: You're kind of a scientist going through this, for sure. Going in an industry you know will make money obviously, but whatever you're doing specifically, you might almost always be the first. The think big, start small and scale fast. That's huge.   Kristian: Yeah. If anyone wants to connect with us, Dallin and I are both on Facebook. We mentioned Periscope. I do a lot of broadcasting on there with what I call the Live Stream Marketing Funnel Show. We're rolling, if people are interested in learning how to use live video, we've got that coming out. Yeah. Connect with us on social media. Kristian Cotta and Dallin Greenberg.   Steve: Okay, yeah. Then you've got the Health Success Podcast. Guys, go check him out at Health Success Podcast as well as he said Live Stream Marketing?   Kristian: Well. Yeah. Just go to KristianCotta.com. It'll take you right there.   Steve: Cool. Awesome.   Kristian: Kristian with a K.   Steve: Kristian with a K. Cotta, right?   Dallin: I'm in.   Kristian: Kristian with a K. Cotta. Dallin's in here. He just got back in.   Dallin: Dude, I don't know what happened. I was getting all excited what Kristian was saying and then just cut off.   Kristian: It's the point of high drama, that's what we were talking about.   Dallin: I know. It was. That's what I told Amy. Is it over?   Steve: It is now.   Kristian: Yeah. We're just wrapping it up.   Steve: Awesome.   Dallin: Sorry.   Steve: It's good. Hey, thanks guys so much.   Kristian: All right. Take care, Steve.   Dallin: See you man.   Steve: All right. Bye-bye.   Speaker 4: (music starts) Thank for listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Have a question you want answered on the show? Get your free t-shirt when your question gets answered on the live Hey Steve Show. Visit salesfunnelbroker.com now to submit your question. (music ends)

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