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In a new season of the Oracle University Podcast, Lois Houston and Nikita Abraham dive into the world of Oracle GoldenGate 23ai, a cutting-edge software solution for data management. They are joined by Nick Wagner, a seasoned expert in database replication, who provides a comprehensive overview of this powerful tool. Nick highlights GoldenGate's ability to ensure continuous operations by efficiently moving data between databases and platforms with minimal overhead. He emphasizes its role in enabling real-time analytics, enhancing data security, and reducing costs by offloading data to low-cost hardware. The discussion also covers GoldenGate's role in facilitating data sharing, improving operational efficiency, and reducing downtime during outages. Oracle GoldenGate 23ai: Fundamentals: https://mylearn.oracle.com/ou/course/oracle-goldengate-23ai-fundamentals/145884/237273 Oracle University Learning Community: https://education.oracle.com/ou-community LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/oracle-university/ X: https://x.com/Oracle_Edu Special thanks to Arijit Ghosh, David Wright, Kris-Ann Nansen, Radhika Banka, and the OU Studio Team for helping us create this episode. --------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00:00 Welcome to the Oracle University Podcast, the first stop on your cloud journey. During this series of informative podcasts, we'll bring you foundational training on the most popular Oracle technologies. Let's get started! 00:25 Nikita: Welcome to the Oracle University Podcast! I'm Nikita Abraham, Team Lead: Editorial Services with Oracle University, and with me is Lois Houston: Director of Innovation Programs. Lois: Hi everyone! Welcome to a new season of the podcast. This time, we're focusing on the fundamentals of Oracle GoldenGate. Oracle GoldenGate helps organizations manage and synchronize their data across diverse systems and databases in real time. And with the new Oracle GoldenGate 23ai release, we'll uncover the latest innovations and features that empower businesses to make the most of their data. Nikita: Taking us through this is Nick Wagner, Senior Director of Product Management for Oracle GoldenGate. He's been doing database replication for about 25 years and has been focused on GoldenGate on and off for about 20 of those years. 01:18 Lois: In today's episode, we'll ask Nick to give us a general overview of the product, along with some use cases and benefits. Hi Nick! To start with, why do customers need GoldenGate? Nick: Well, it delivers continuous operations, being able to continuously move data from one database to another database or data platform in efficiently and a high-speed manner, and it does this with very low overhead. Almost all the GoldenGate environments use transaction logs to pull the data out of the system, so we're not creating any additional triggers or very little overhead on that source system. GoldenGate can also enable real-time analytics, being able to pull data from all these different databases and move them into your analytics system in real time can improve the value that those analytics systems provide. Being able to do real-time statistics and analysis of that data within those high-performance custom environments is really important. 02:13 Nikita: Does it offer any benefits in terms of cost? Nick: GoldenGate can also lower IT costs. A lot of times people run these massive OLTP databases, and they are running reporting in those same systems. With GoldenGate, you can offload some of the data or all the data to a low-cost commodity hardware where you can then run the reports on that other system. So, this way, you can get back that performance on the OLTP system, while at the same time optimizing your reporting environment for those long running reports. You can improve efficiencies and reduce risks. Being able to reduce the amount of downtime during planned and unplanned outages can really make a big benefit to the overall operational efficiencies of your company. 02:54 Nikita: What about when it comes to data sharing and data security? Nick: You can also reduce barriers to data sharing. Being able to pull subsets of data, or just specific pieces of data out of a production database and move it to the team or to the group that needs that information in real time is very important. And it also protects the security of your data by only moving in the information that they need and not the entire database. It also provides extensibility and flexibility, being able to support multiple different replication topologies and architectures. 03:24 Lois: Can you tell us about some of the use cases of GoldenGate? Where does GoldenGate truly shine? Nick: Some of the more traditional use cases of GoldenGate include use within the multicloud fabric. Within a multicloud fabric, this essentially means that GoldenGate can replicate data between on-premise environments, within cloud environments, or hybrid, cloud to on-premise, on-premise to cloud, or even within multiple clouds. So, you can move data from AWS to Azure to OCI. You can also move between the systems themselves, so you don't have to use the same database in all the different clouds. For example, if you wanted to move data from AWS Postgres into Oracle running in OCI, you can do that using Oracle GoldenGate. We also support maximum availability architectures. And so, there's a lot of different use cases here, but primarily geared around reducing your recovery point objective and recovery time objective. 04:20 Lois: Ah, reducing RPO and RTO. That must have a significant advantage for the customer, right? Nick: So, reducing your RPO and RTO allows you to take advantage of some of the benefits of GoldenGate, being able to do active-active replication, being able to set up GoldenGate for high availability, real-time failover, and it can augment your active Data Guard and Data Guard configuration. So, a lot of times GoldenGate is used within Oracle's maximum availability architecture platinum tier level of replication, which means that at that point you've got lots of different capabilities within the Oracle Database itself. But to help eke out that last little bit of high availability, you want to set up an active-active environment with GoldenGate to really get true zero RPO and RTO. GoldenGate can also be used for data offloading and data hubs. Being able to pull data from one or more source systems and move it into a data hub, or into a data warehouse for your operational reporting. This could also be your analytics environment too. 05:22 Nikita: Does GoldenGate support online migrations? Nick: In fact, a lot of companies actually get started in GoldenGate by doing a migration from one platform to another. Now, these don't even have to be something as complex as going from one database like a DB2 on-premise into an Oracle on OCI, it could even be simple migrations. A lot of times doing something like a major application or a major database version upgrade is going to take downtime on that production system. You can use GoldenGate to eliminate that downtime. So this could be going from Oracle 19c to Oracle 23ai, or going from application version 1.0 to application version 2.0, because GoldenGate can do the transformation between the different application schemas. You can use GoldenGate to migrate your database from on premise into the cloud with no downtime as well. We also support real-time analytic feeds, being able to go from multiple databases, not only those on premise, but being able to pull information from different SaaS applications inside of OCI and move it to your different analytic systems. And then, of course, we also have the ability to stream events and analytics within GoldenGate itself. 06:34 Lois: Let's move on to the various topologies supported by GoldenGate. I know GoldenGate supports many different platforms and can be used with just about any database. Nick: This first layer of topologies is what we usually consider relational database topologies. And so this would be moving data from Oracle to Oracle, Postgres to Oracle, Sybase to SQL Server, a lot of different types of databases. So the first architecture would be unidirectional. This is replicating from one source to one target. You can do this for reporting. If I wanted to offload some reports into another server, I can go ahead and do that using GoldenGate. I can replicate the entire database or just a subset of tables. I can also set up GoldenGate for bidirectional, and this is what I want to set up GoldenGate for something like high availability. So in the event that one of the servers crashes, I can almost immediately reconnect my users to the other system. And that almost immediately depends on the amount of latency that GoldenGate has at that time. So a typical latency is anywhere from 3 to 6 seconds. So after that primary system fails, I can reconnect my users to the other system in 3 to 6 seconds. And I can do that because as GoldenGate's applying data into that target database, that target system is already open for read and write activity. GoldenGate is just another user connecting in issuing DML operations, and so it makes that failover time very low. 07:59 Nikita: Ok…If you can get it down to 3 to 6 seconds, can you bring it down to zero? Like zero failover time? Nick: That's the next topology, which is active-active. And in this scenario, all servers are read/write all at the same time and all available for user activity. And you can do multiple topologies with this as well. You can do a mesh architecture, which is where every server talks to every other server. This works really well for 2, 3, 4, maybe even 5 environments, but when you get beyond that, having every server communicate with every other server can get a little complex. And so at that point we start looking at doing what we call a hub and spoke architecture, where we have lots of different spokes. At the end of each spoke is a read/write database, and then those communicate with a hub. So any change that happens on one spoke gets sent into the hub, and then from the hub it gets sent out to all the other spokes. And through that architecture, it allows you to really scale up your environments. We have customers that are doing up to 150 spokes within that hub architecture. Within active-active replication as well, we can do conflict detection and resolution, which means that if two users modify the same row on two different systems, GoldenGate can actually determine that there was an issue with that and determine what user wins or which row change wins, which is extremely important when doing active-active replication. And this means that if one of those systems fails, there is no downtime when you switch your users to another active system because it's already available for activity and ready to go. 09:35 Lois: Wow, that's fantastic. Ok, tell us more about the topologies. Nick: GoldenGate can do other things like broadcast, sending data from one system to multiple systems, or many to one as far as consolidation. We can also do cascading replication, so when data moves from one environment that GoldenGate is replicating into another environment that GoldenGate is replicating. By default, we ignore all of our own transactions. But there's actually a toggle switch that you can flip that says, hey, GoldenGate, even though you wrote that data into that database, still push it on to the next system. And then of course, we can also do distribution of data, and this is more like moving data from a relational database into something like a Kafka topic or a JMS queue or into some messaging service. 10:24 Raise your game with the Oracle Cloud Applications skills challenge. Get free training on Oracle Fusion Cloud Applications, Oracle Modern Best Practice, and Oracle Cloud Success Navigator. Pass the free Oracle Fusion Cloud Foundations Associate exam to earn a Foundations Associate certification. Plus, there's a chance to win awards and prizes throughout the challenge! What are you waiting for? Join the challenge today by visiting visit oracle.com/education. 10:58 Nikita: Welcome back! Nick, does GoldenGate also have nonrelational capabilities? Nick: We have a number of nonrelational replication events in topologies as well. This includes things like data lake ingestion and streaming ingestion, being able to move data and data objects from these different relational database platforms into data lakes and into these streaming systems where you can run analytics on them and run reports. We can also do cloud ingestion, being able to move data from these databases into different cloud environments. And this is not only just moving it into relational databases with those clouds, but also their data lakes and data fabrics. 11:38 Lois: You mentioned a messaging service earlier. Can you tell us more about that? Nick: Messaging replication is also possible. So we can actually capture from things like messaging systems like Kafka Connect and JMS, replicate that into a relational data, or simply stream it into another environment. We also support NoSQL replication, being able to capture from MongoDB and replicate it onto another MongoDB for high availability or disaster recovery, or simply into any other system. 12:06 Nikita: I see. And is there any integration with a customer's SaaS applications? Nick: GoldenGate also supports a number of different OCI SaaS applications. And so a lot of these different applications like Oracle Financials Fusion, Oracle Transportation Management, they all have GoldenGate built under the covers and can be enabled with a flag that you can actually have that data sent out to your other GoldenGate environment. So you can actually subscribe to changes that are happening in these other systems with very little overhead. And then of course, we have event processing and analytics, and this is the final topology or flexibility within GoldenGate itself. And this is being able to push data through data pipelines, doing data transformations. GoldenGate is not an ETL tool, but it can do row-level transformation and row-level filtering. 12:55 Lois: Are there integrations offered by Oracle GoldenGate in automation and artificial intelligence? Nick: We can do time series analysis and geofencing using the GoldenGate Stream Analytics product. It allows you to actually do real time analysis and time series analysis on data as it flows through the GoldenGate trails. And then that same product, the GoldenGate Stream Analytics, can then take the data and move it to predictive analytics, where you can run MML on it, or ONNX or other Spark-type technologies and do real-time analysis and AI on that information as it's flowing through. 13:29 Nikita: So, GoldenGate is extremely flexible. And given Oracle's focus on integrating AI into its product portfolio, what about GoldenGate? Does it offer any AI-related features, especially since the product name has “23ai” in it? Nick: With the advent of Oracle GoldenGate 23ai, it's one of the two products at this point that has the AI moniker at Oracle. Oracle Database 23ai also has it, and that means that we actually do stuff with AI. So the Oracle GoldenGate product can actually capture vectors from databases like MySQL HeatWave, Postgres using pgvector, which includes things like AlloyDB, Amazon RDS Postgres, Aurora Postgres. We can also replicate data into Elasticsearch and OpenSearch, or if the data is using vectors within OCI or the Oracle Database itself. So GoldenGate can be used for a number of things here. The first one is being able to migrate vectors into the Oracle Database. So if you're using something like Postgres, MySQL, and you want to migrate the vector information into the Oracle Database, you can. Now one thing to keep in mind here is a vector is oftentimes like a GPS coordinate. So if I need to know the GPS coordinates of Austin, Texas, I can put in a latitude and longitude and it will give me the GPS coordinates of a building within that city. But if I also need to know the altitude of that same building, well, that's going to be a different algorithm. And GoldenGate and replicating vectors is the same way. When you create a vector, it's essentially just creating a bunch of numbers under the screen, kind of like those same GPS coordinates. The dimension and the algorithm that you use to generate that vector can be different across different databases, but the actual meaning of that data will change. And so GoldenGate can replicate the vector data as long as the algorithm and the dimensions are the same. If the algorithm and the dimensions are not the same between the source and the target, then you'll actually want GoldenGate to replicate the base data that created that vector. And then once GoldenGate replicates the base data, it'll actually call the vector embedding technology to re-embed that data and produce that numerical formatting for you. 15:42 Lois: So, there are some nuances there… Nick: GoldenGate can also replicate and consolidate vector changes or even do the embedding API calls itself. This is really nice because it means that we can take changes from multiple systems and consolidate them into a single one. We can also do the reverse of that too. A lot of customers are still trying to find out which algorithms work best for them. How many dimensions? What's the optimal use? Well, you can now run those in different servers without impacting your actual AI system. Once you've identified which algorithm and dimension is going to be best for your data, you can then have GoldenGate replicate that into your production system and we'll start using that instead. So it's a nice way to switch algorithms without taking extensive downtime. 16:29 Nikita: What about in multicloud environments? Nick: GoldenGate can also do multicloud and N-way active-active Oracle replication between vectors. So if there's vectors in Oracle databases, in multiple clouds, or multiple on-premise databases, GoldenGate can synchronize them all up. And of course we can also stream changes from vector information, including text as well into different search engines. And that's where the integration with Elasticsearch and OpenSearch comes in. And then we can use things like NVIDIA and Cohere to actually do the AI on that data. 17:01 Lois: Using GoldenGate with AI in the database unlocks so many possibilities. Thanks for that detailed introduction to Oracle GoldenGate 23ai and its capabilities, Nick. Nikita: We've run out of time for today, but Nick will be back next week to talk about how GoldenGate has evolved over time and its latest features. And if you liked what you heard today, head over to mylearn.oracle.com and take a look at the Oracle GoldenGate 23ai Fundamentals course to learn more. Until next time, this is Nikita Abraham… Lois: And Lois Houston, signing off! 17:33 That's all for this episode of the Oracle University Podcast. If you enjoyed listening, please click Subscribe to get all the latest episodes. We'd also love it if you would take a moment to rate and review us on your podcast app. See you again on the next episode of the Oracle University Podcast.
Dark money for dark times Nick Cohen talks to investigative reporter & author Peter Geoghegan, the UK's leading journalist exposing the dark money and cash from right wing extremist billionaires that's been driving UK politics since the ill-fated 2016 Brexit referendum.Brexit & Trump-related funding that have poisoned UK & U.S. politics Peter @PeterKGeoghegan explains how Donald Trump's election victories, Brexit and the failed Liz Truss experiment have helped fuel a crackpot anglocentric extremist right wing movement that has taken root either side of the Atlantic. In London, Tufton Street so-called "think tanks" a-wash with dark money mainly from U.S. billionaires and corporations have been influencing UK politics - helping to drive a number of right wing culture wars from climate denial & Europe to Ukraine and the NHS.This UK-U.S. phenomena was recently best exposed by the "National Conservatism Conference" in London in May 2023 which heard from a number of extreme right voices from either side of the Pond. Peter tells Nick: "You have a growing link between that sort of Trumpist right, the MAGA right, and ... the Right to the Conservative Party, Robert Jenrick, Liz Truss, people like that, all have strong links."Farage, Reform and the Elon Musk fanboyPeter says even if Trump stooge Elon Musk does not or cannot make good on his promise to bung Nigel Farage & his Reform gang a reported £100 million, the story has already boosted the radical right in the UK.Labour doing "sweet F.A" as dark money floods inBut Peter is despondent about the prospects of stopping foreign cash fuelling extremist politics in the UK. The Tories castrated the Electoral Commission, & Sir Keir Starmer shows no appetite to tackle the issue. Peter says Labour will reportedly not change electoral law because it "could stoke populism" if the government is seen to react to the threat posed by Trump, Musk & Farage. Peter adds, "I think is a completely crazy position to take, to say that we're not going to do something that we are actually philosophically in favour of ...because it, it might create a couple of bad headlines.Read all about itPeter Geoghegan's must read Substack is Democracy for Sale & his best selling book Democracy for Sale: Dark Money and Dirty Politics is published by W.F.Howes Ltd.Nick Cohen's @NickCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Want the dakota and I got it Fanning I deflated I'm like Peyton Manning Previously on {Enter The Multiverse} Season 6 DRAKE BELL enters DTLA smokeshop. NICK You know who that is, right? Before: Tell me she remembers High possibility she doesn't remember anything at all. Great. Also. A high chance— That she remembers everything. Oh! Like all of it. Even worse. That might be worse— —it might be better. But it isn't, Either way! We lose! Great. Good luck, Timmy! Who the fuck is Timmy? You are! What! Good luck. So he enters and exits— In two entirely seperate dimensions! Not even parallels. Not even close. In fact, Once he enters, The world he leaves behind is forever gone. Forever gone?! Woah! Woah! Except those other guys from Nickelodeon, Because they have a Time Machine. Wooh, Phew. That's good. Yes it is. Wait—we have a Time Machine? Yes. That's good. Wher THE FOXXXYBOXXX arrives. “the Foxy Box?!” No, the Foxxxy Boxxx What— What are you dickbags staring at. Nothing. Goddamn! Shut up! That is the sexiest Time Machine I've ever seen! Have you ever seen a Time Machine at all, before this? I—I don't know what I've seen before this. Whatever. I like your box. Shut up. I like your box, too… Shut up. Get in. Where are we going? I don't even care. To Wonderland! {Enter The Multiverse} The first one might not fly, but the second one's for sure a hit. I found out there was wax on my apples today for the first time, and I thought “well, that's gross. Counting cards, are we? Another writing assignment. They're all writing assignments… You were dead once— —or I will be soon. Your choice. (Up to you) It's always my choice. You don't have acknowledge us as ‘ghosts' It's just that— We are what we are. To speak without speaking To know without knowing Cut ties with it all— With it at all? It could be worth it, If the salamander ever speaks again? Well, you are alive, aren't you? Only at the wishing well. —last I checked, in chains I was. I wish I were a rockstar. Consider it granted, unless— Unless, what? You'd rather yourself a comedian. Why would I want that? Why wouldn't you? I went full screen for Whoopi Goldberg but absolutely died At gene wilder. You'd better not. How dare you, Severus? Why would you write something like this? But—why wouldn't I? I wonder if there's anything I can do to get rid of this wax— And then I thought, “Maybe I should just peel them” Then I thought, “Wax on Apples— Well that's un-apple-eal-ing” I was Wait, hold that thought It was a joke my was a joke that practically wrote itself, cause it's not a fucking joke, it's true. I could see it, but not hear it The words, music, The art, animated My fasting eyes were wise with time And love forever As if I am, As if I was — At once all things, But not at all. Could have been better. What happened yesterday? My spirit broke. Just fasted to acid I yawned when it dawned on me, I eat when I'm awful, I'd rot in my body For time and for all words, For forwards.c for four words I haven't been loved since The door closed On more curses. I haven't taken a time to be honest In heartthrobs— Four of them, really But after all, I've got my all stars. Come to find out, The first husband in five— We're just all four. I fell out of love with a punch— But I left all my stuff there. Wondering here and there Whether or not it was Okay, this is officially the weirdest thing that's ever happened in the nevermind, that was weirder I told you bro, you were in the Illuminati. IT WASNT ME. i didn't do it. WHAT IN THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO [HER] [HIM] —NOTHING. Great. !9/ I have to wash all my socks. No, your dick still sucks. what. sorry dude. Second yawn, now know I'm on one The glass door passed out the fast words With honors and ornaments Sing to get off of the wire We fly to get on to it —how it all works out in the end, (It was always a puzzle.) That's enough of the sermon, The sponge, —it's all masters and mistresses The sodom, the stop watch The pocket —I saw Eddie Murphy The wonderous web that I spun after all Was a fortune, a fountain, a father A figure A falcon Enough was enough —but it all just kept going (Like over and over) I just want a lover, Without all the falling (Not actually alice) I lost all my change And my passion Just using the bathroom —were we past that. I use helicopters for time travel Over the mountain I probably never came down And I never went back there. It was roped off. I'm a crossroads, But they're closed off, I d got obstacles Marvelous crocs I told you it was God! (But forgot that I was one) Fuck, I'm so fucked up. This, from the ark of the story m Is every thought I've yet to have But still we're the will of the words, Since it all I it automatic. I should have paused hours ago (He had cerebral palate ir autism) I should be back at the ranch, But I've still got this taste in my mouth I should really —remarkable crush— For an infinite love, I thought. There was Severus, But you mustn't react If not wearing a mask, Or else you'll be cast on a show, Not your own, But do you get your The mushrooms were made of squishy foam and I appreciated that. Factor in this rampant rapture For m the capsule l upon us The wildebeest walked over Arches Before he as pardoned I wonder what acid reacted to Carson, on honors I polished the ghost On the worst of the wrongs I'd not done yet Therefore, you are. On Halifax, Or ahalycon, For artifacts Or dinner dates I once mated with a bird And flew the coop, Not shortly after, But What in the fuck am I watching What the fuck YO. Nobody told me about this. You greedy bitch. I—yeah whatever. Which road shall you go Which road shall you take You have to move on Though you tremble. X quake Whatever, I'll keep that typo, I gotta finish this joke. I was reading this banana bread recipe1- Not because I don't know how to make banana bread. Banana bread is easy. I was just trying to figure out how to make it Without eggs And without baking soda —you know, for texture. So I google this recipe, And I don't know what made me actually click on the recipe. — The rabbit has human hands. —I don't . Yeah, sometimes it's best to leave them in the mystery, Leave “them” Who is “them”? I am alone! …you were always alone. Okay, Or is it a donkey? What in the fuck? —-Oh, nevermind, that's me. I'm gonna want that “air trumpet. “ Return to the land of mirrors And “why are you still here's” They say the fame changes you I think we really are all that The time and the wise And the wicked The nine mirror cycles The sons of the songs you wrote All the the god and the sun you are Goddamn it, Just finish the joke! (You should finish me off first.) So I click o. This recipe Here we are counting cards again… YOU DID THIS IN ON PURPOSE, Are you serious, I did this in “post” Shut the fuck up, you didn't edit that video yourself —I didn't even shoot it, Aha. “The Art of the— —but which Alice is Alice. IT WASNT ME. The joke's not as funny after all this. (Not my fault, it's automatic. ) No, there's no ‘Nothing' In here, We all thought it was over, Then then I wondered How to old it all in Blow out the candles, Come over, The wonderful world of — You know, I can't see now, I'm hearing my faults— Are you sure it wasn't over. Would I forget you if it weren't for a word To remind me which part of I you are Simple sameness I am hungry, But the day was undaunting I was almost over it Now back to nothing— Since I belong there. There was no book four before. I should keep metronomes and impartial clocks Not for timekeeping, But soundbathing Something about it tells me to drown out my sorrows With cellibacy And alcohol It all come back to haunt you When you have a daughter— Now doesn't it? How does it go? It goes The heart screams I've got to go home But the head doesn't want to The soul cries for someone to hold it Outside of the body The water went up, Then went down Till we ran out of all of it —I was just making a mockery Of my own mother. (I was aborted.) You might let that cat out of the bag. The recipe started, Here we are in a house of cards And it all falls down Or goes up in flames Oh, to love the fire, Though I'm so tired I would write For the times If I was Inspired Shift the subject Life the veil, And break the worth wall Break the curse Or write the wrath of karma Shopping malls And quarter horses, Blow up dolls And mattresses, Perfect persons, Sayers, Singers, dancers Character actresses, Theatre dictations You see the same, I saw, I went It's all one column now (The middle) The ensemble was fireworks And wellbeing For all the struggle The clock struck minus one At unimportant. —The facts. I took priority for phone calls And piety for beings of dignity Honorary, further off then comfort Just a world away Or are you being Suffered, or sufferable? Surfaces for surfboards— Words of will for honeycombs And gingerbread for Anastasia Sure Google, But it was “Amistad” Whatever that was. I could have figured you were bigger than interesting Never would have guessed We'd have it for us eating on the cardboard Cutouts Matchbox offerings From dawn until sunset Porpoises, Toilets and Gold watches When will it work? When you sing what you want to At will With your heart And above all the offers Took love over money I'm 5 minutes over. #ff [The Festival Project ™] {Enter The Multiverse} The Complex Collective © The recipe started with something like, “Growing up, there were two things my mother and I often baked together: chocolate chip cookies and banana bread.” I paused for a moment and thought of myself and I, and then I thought– “okay, sure, yeah” Growing up there were two things my mother and I often baked together: Ourselves. Lol. hehe [That's The Punchline] –Maybe the first one was better [The Festival Project ™] -Ū. {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project.™] COPYRIGHT © THE FESTIVAL PROJECT 2019-2024 | THE COMPLEX COLLECTIVE. © ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. © -Ū.
Want the dakota and I got it Fanning I deflated I'm like Peyton Manning Previously on {Enter The Multiverse} Season 6 DRAKE BELL enters DTLA smokeshop. NICK You know who that is, right? Before: Tell me she remembers High possibility she doesn't remember anything at all. Great. Also. A high chance— That she remembers everything. Oh! Like all of it. Even worse. That might be worse— —it might be better. But it isn't, Either way! We lose! Great. Good luck, Timmy! Who the fuck is Timmy? You are! What! Good luck. So he enters and exits— In two entirely seperate dimensions! Not even parallels. Not even close. In fact, Once he enters, The world he leaves behind is forever gone. Forever gone?! Woah! Woah! Except those other guys from Nickelodeon, Because they have a Time Machine. Wooh, Phew. That's good. Yes it is. Wait—we have a Time Machine? Yes. That's good. Wher THE FOXXXYBOXXX arrives. “the Foxy Box?!” No, the Foxxxy Boxxx What— What are you dickbags staring at. Nothing. Goddamn! Shut up! That is the sexiest Time Machine I've ever seen! Have you ever seen a Time Machine at all, before this? I—I don't know what I've seen before this. Whatever. I like your box. Shut up. I like your box, too… Shut up. Get in. Where are we going? I don't even care. To Wonderland! {Enter The Multiverse} The first one might not fly, but the second one's for sure a hit. I found out there was wax on my apples today for the first time, and I thought “well, that's gross. Counting cards, are we? Another writing assignment. They're all writing assignments… You were dead once— —or I will be soon. Your choice. (Up to you) It's always my choice. You don't have acknowledge us as ‘ghosts' It's just that— We are what we are. To speak without speaking To know without knowing Cut ties with it all— With it at all? It could be worth it, If the salamander ever speaks again? Well, you are alive, aren't you? Only at the wishing well. —last I checked, in chains I was. I wish I were a rockstar. Consider it granted, unless— Unless, what? You'd rather yourself a comedian. Why would I want that? Why wouldn't you? I went full screen for Whoopi Goldberg but absolutely died At gene wilder. You'd better not. How dare you, Severus? Why would you write something like this? But—why wouldn't I? I wonder if there's anything I can do to get rid of this wax— And then I thought, “Maybe I should just peel them” Then I thought, “Wax on Apples— Well that's un-apple-eal-ing” I was Wait, hold that thought It was a joke my was a joke that practically wrote itself, cause it's not a fucking joke, it's true. I could see it, but not hear it The words, music, The art, animated My fasting eyes were wise with time And love forever As if I am, As if I was — At once all things, But not at all. Could have been better. What happened yesterday? My spirit broke. Just fasted to acid I yawned when it dawned on me, I eat when I'm awful, I'd rot in my body For time and for all words, For forwards.c for four words I haven't been loved since The door closed On more curses. I haven't taken a time to be honest In heartthrobs— Four of them, really But after all, I've got my all stars. Come to find out, The first husband in five— We're just all four. I fell out of love with a punch— But I left all my stuff there. Wondering here and there Whether or not it was Okay, this is officially the weirdest thing that's ever happened in the nevermind, that was weirder I told you bro, you were in the Illuminati. IT WASNT ME. i didn't do it. WHAT IN THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO [HER] [HIM] —NOTHING. Great. !9/ I have to wash all my socks. No, your dick still sucks. what. sorry dude. Second yawn, now know I'm on one The glass door passed out the fast words With honors and ornaments Sing to get off of the wire We fly to get on to it —how it all works out in the end, (It was always a puzzle.) That's enough of the sermon, The sponge, —it's all masters and mistresses The sodom, the stop watch The pocket —I saw Eddie Murphy The wonderous web that I spun after all Was a fortune, a fountain, a father A figure A falcon Enough was enough —but it all just kept going (Like over and over) I just want a lover, Without all the falling (Not actually alice) I lost all my change And my passion Just using the bathroom —were we past that. I use helicopters for time travel Over the mountain I probably never came down And I never went back there. It was roped off. I'm a crossroads, But they're closed off, I d got obstacles Marvelous crocs I told you it was God! (But forgot that I was one) Fuck, I'm so fucked up. This, from the ark of the story m Is every thought I've yet to have But still we're the will of the words, Since it all I it automatic. I should have paused hours ago (He had cerebral palate ir autism) I should be back at the ranch, But I've still got this taste in my mouth I should really —remarkable crush— For an infinite love, I thought. There was Severus, But you mustn't react If not wearing a mask, Or else you'll be cast on a show, Not your own, But do you get your The mushrooms were made of squishy foam and I appreciated that. Factor in this rampant rapture For m the capsule l upon us The wildebeest walked over Arches Before he as pardoned I wonder what acid reacted to Carson, on honors I polished the ghost On the worst of the wrongs I'd not done yet Therefore, you are. On Halifax, Or ahalycon, For artifacts Or dinner dates I once mated with a bird And flew the coop, Not shortly after, But What in the fuck am I watching What the fuck YO. Nobody told me about this. You greedy bitch. I—yeah whatever. Which road shall you go Which road shall you take You have to move on Though you tremble. X quake Whatever, I'll keep that typo, I gotta finish this joke. I was reading this banana bread recipe1- Not because I don't know how to make banana bread. Banana bread is easy. I was just trying to figure out how to make it Without eggs And without baking soda —you know, for texture. So I google this recipe, And I don't know what made me actually click on the recipe. — The rabbit has human hands. —I don't . Yeah, sometimes it's best to leave them in the mystery, Leave “them” Who is “them”? I am alone! …you were always alone. Okay, Or is it a donkey? What in the fuck? —-Oh, nevermind, that's me. I'm gonna want that “air trumpet. “ Return to the land of mirrors And “why are you still here's” They say the fame changes you I think we really are all that The time and the wise And the wicked The nine mirror cycles The sons of the songs you wrote All the the god and the sun you are Goddamn it, Just finish the joke! (You should finish me off first.) So I click o. This recipe Here we are counting cards again… YOU DID THIS IN ON PURPOSE, Are you serious, I did this in “post” Shut the fuck up, you didn't edit that video yourself —I didn't even shoot it, Aha. “The Art of the— —but which Alice is Alice. IT WASNT ME. The joke's not as funny after all this. (Not my fault, it's automatic. ) No, there's no ‘Nothing' In here, We all thought it was over, Then then I wondered How to old it all in Blow out the candles, Come over, The wonderful world of — You know, I can't see now, I'm hearing my faults— Are you sure it wasn't over. Would I forget you if it weren't for a word To remind me which part of I you are Simple sameness I am hungry, But the day was undaunting I was almost over it Now back to nothing— Since I belong there. There was no book four before. I should keep metronomes and impartial clocks Not for timekeeping, But soundbathing Something about it tells me to drown out my sorrows With cellibacy And alcohol It all come back to haunt you When you have a daughter— Now doesn't it? How does it go? It goes The heart screams I've got to go home But the head doesn't want to The soul cries for someone to hold it Outside of the body The water went up, Then went down Till we ran out of all of it —I was just making a mockery Of my own mother. (I was aborted.) You might let that cat out of the bag. The recipe started, Here we are in a house of cards And it all falls down Or goes up in flames Oh, to love the fire, Though I'm so tired I would write For the times If I was Inspired Shift the subject Life the veil, And break the worth wall Break the curse Or write the wrath of karma Shopping malls And quarter horses, Blow up dolls And mattresses, Perfect persons, Sayers, Singers, dancers Character actresses, Theatre dictations You see the same, I saw, I went It's all one column now (The middle) The ensemble was fireworks And wellbeing For all the struggle The clock struck minus one At unimportant. —The facts. I took priority for phone calls And piety for beings of dignity Honorary, further off then comfort Just a world away Or are you being Suffered, or sufferable? Surfaces for surfboards— Words of will for honeycombs And gingerbread for Anastasia Sure Google, But it was “Amistad” Whatever that was. I could have figured you were bigger than interesting Never would have guessed We'd have it for us eating on the cardboard Cutouts Matchbox offerings From dawn until sunset Porpoises, Toilets and Gold watches When will it work? When you sing what you want to At will With your heart And above all the offers Took love over money I'm 5 minutes over. #ff [The Festival Project ™] {Enter The Multiverse} The Complex Collective © The recipe started with something like, “Growing up, there were two things my mother and I often baked together: chocolate chip cookies and banana bread.” I paused for a moment and thought of myself and I, and then I thought– “okay, sure, yeah” Growing up there were two things my mother and I often baked together: Ourselves. Lol. hehe [That's The Punchline] –Maybe the first one was better [The Festival Project ™] -Ū. {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project.™] COPYRIGHT © THE FESTIVAL PROJECT 2019-2024 | THE COMPLEX COLLECTIVE. © ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. © -Ū.
![[ENTER THE MULTIVERSE]](https://ivyfm.s3.amazonaws.com/i320/1184481.jpg)
Want the dakota and I got it Fanning I deflated I'm like Peyton Manning Previously on {Enter The Multiverse} Season 6 DRAKE BELL enters DTLA smokeshop. NICK You know who that is, right? Before: Tell me she remembers High possibility she doesn't remember anything at all. Great. Also. A high chance— That she remembers everything. Oh! Like all of it. Even worse. That might be worse— —it might be better. But it isn't, Either way! We lose! Great. Good luck, Timmy! Who the fuck is Timmy? You are! What! Good luck. So he enters and exits— In two entirely seperate dimensions! Not even parallels. Not even close. In fact, Once he enters, The world he leaves behind is forever gone. Forever gone?! Woah! Woah! Except those other guys from Nickelodeon, Because they have a Time Machine. Wooh, Phew. That's good. Yes it is. Wait—we have a Time Machine? Yes. That's good. Wher THE FOXXXYBOXXX arrives. “the Foxy Box?!” No, the Foxxxy Boxxx What— What are you dickbags staring at. Nothing. Goddamn! Shut up! That is the sexiest Time Machine I've ever seen! Have you ever seen a Time Machine at all, before this? I—I don't know what I've seen before this. Whatever. I like your box. Shut up. I like your box, too… Shut up. Get in. Where are we going? I don't even care. To Wonderland! {Enter The Multiverse} The first one might not fly, but the second one's for sure a hit. I found out there was wax on my apples today for the first time, and I thought “well, that's gross. Counting cards, are we? Another writing assignment. They're all writing assignments… You were dead once— —or I will be soon. Your choice. (Up to you) It's always my choice. You don't have acknowledge us as ‘ghosts' It's just that— We are what we are. To speak without speaking To know without knowing Cut ties with it all— With it at all? It could be worth it, If the salamander ever speaks again? Well, you are alive, aren't you? Only at the wishing well. —last I checked, in chains I was. I wish I were a rockstar. Consider it granted, unless— Unless, what? You'd rather yourself a comedian. Why would I want that? Why wouldn't you? I went full screen for Whoopi Goldberg but absolutely died At gene wilder. You'd better not. How dare you, Severus? Why would you write something like this? But—why wouldn't I? I wonder if there's anything I can do to get rid of this wax— And then I thought, “Maybe I should just peel them” Then I thought, “Wax on Apples— Well that's un-apple-eal-ing” I was Wait, hold that thought It was a joke my was a joke that practically wrote itself, cause it's not a fucking joke, it's true. I could see it, but not hear it The words, music, The art, animated My fasting eyes were wise with time And love forever As if I am, As if I was — At once all things, But not at all. Could have been better. What happened yesterday? My spirit broke. Just fasted to acid I yawned when it dawned on me, I eat when I'm awful, I'd rot in my body For time and for all words, For forwards.c for four words I haven't been loved since The door closed On more curses. I haven't taken a time to be honest In heartthrobs— Four of them, really But after all, I've got my all stars. Come to find out, The first husband in five— We're just all four. I fell out of love with a punch— But I left all my stuff there. Wondering here and there Whether or not it was Okay, this is officially the weirdest thing that's ever happened in the nevermind, that was weirder I told you bro, you were in the Illuminati. IT WASNT ME. i didn't do it. WHAT IN THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO [HER] [HIM] —NOTHING. Great. !9/ I have to wash all my socks. No, your dick still sucks. what. sorry dude. Second yawn, now know I'm on one The glass door passed out the fast words With honors and ornaments Sing to get off of the wire We fly to get on to it —how it all works out in the end, (It was always a puzzle.) That's enough of the sermon, The sponge, —it's all masters and mistresses The sodom, the stop watch The pocket —I saw Eddie Murphy The wonderous web that I spun after all Was a fortune, a fountain, a father A figure A falcon Enough was enough —but it all just kept going (Like over and over) I just want a lover, Without all the falling (Not actually alice) I lost all my change And my passion Just using the bathroom —were we past that. I use helicopters for time travel Over the mountain I probably never came down And I never went back there. It was roped off. I'm a crossroads, But they're closed off, I d got obstacles Marvelous crocs I told you it was God! (But forgot that I was one) Fuck, I'm so fucked up. This, from the ark of the story m Is every thought I've yet to have But still we're the will of the words, Since it all I it automatic. I should have paused hours ago (He had cerebral palate ir autism) I should be back at the ranch, But I've still got this taste in my mouth I should really —remarkable crush— For an infinite love, I thought. There was Severus, But you mustn't react If not wearing a mask, Or else you'll be cast on a show, Not your own, But do you get your The mushrooms were made of squishy foam and I appreciated that. Factor in this rampant rapture For m the capsule l upon us The wildebeest walked over Arches Before he as pardoned I wonder what acid reacted to Carson, on honors I polished the ghost On the worst of the wrongs I'd not done yet Therefore, you are. On Halifax, Or ahalycon, For artifacts Or dinner dates I once mated with a bird And flew the coop, Not shortly after, But What in the fuck am I watching What the fuck YO. Nobody told me about this. You greedy bitch. I—yeah whatever. Which road shall you go Which road shall you take You have to move on Though you tremble. X quake Whatever, I'll keep that typo, I gotta finish this joke. I was reading this banana bread recipe1- Not because I don't know how to make banana bread. Banana bread is easy. I was just trying to figure out how to make it Without eggs And without baking soda —you know, for texture. So I google this recipe, And I don't know what made me actually click on the recipe. — The rabbit has human hands. —I don't . Yeah, sometimes it's best to leave them in the mystery, Leave “them” Who is “them”? I am alone! …you were always alone. Okay, Or is it a donkey? What in the fuck? —-Oh, nevermind, that's me. I'm gonna want that “air trumpet. “ Return to the land of mirrors And “why are you still here's” They say the fame changes you I think we really are all that The time and the wise And the wicked The nine mirror cycles The sons of the songs you wrote All the the god and the sun you are Goddamn it, Just finish the joke! (You should finish me off first.) So I click o. This recipe Here we are counting cards again… YOU DID THIS IN ON PURPOSE, Are you serious, I did this in “post” Shut the fuck up, you didn't edit that video yourself —I didn't even shoot it, Aha. “The Art of the— —but which Alice is Alice. IT WASNT ME. The joke's not as funny after all this. (Not my fault, it's automatic. ) No, there's no ‘Nothing' In here, We all thought it was over, Then then I wondered How to old it all in Blow out the candles, Come over, The wonderful world of — You know, I can't see now, I'm hearing my faults— Are you sure it wasn't over. Would I forget you if it weren't for a word To remind me which part of I you are Simple sameness I am hungry, But the day was undaunting I was almost over it Now back to nothing— Since I belong there. There was no book four before. I should keep metronomes and impartial clocks Not for timekeeping, But soundbathing Something about it tells me to drown out my sorrows With cellibacy And alcohol It all come back to haunt you When you have a daughter— Now doesn't it? How does it go? It goes The heart screams I've got to go home But the head doesn't want to The soul cries for someone to hold it Outside of the body The water went up, Then went down Till we ran out of all of it —I was just making a mockery Of my own mother. (I was aborted.) You might let that cat out of the bag. The recipe started, Here we are in a house of cards And it all falls down Or goes up in flames Oh, to love the fire, Though I'm so tired I would write For the times If I was Inspired Shift the subject Life the veil, And break the worth wall Break the curse Or write the wrath of karma Shopping malls And quarter horses, Blow up dolls And mattresses, Perfect persons, Sayers, Singers, dancers Character actresses, Theatre dictations You see the same, I saw, I went It's all one column now (The middle) The ensemble was fireworks And wellbeing For all the struggle The clock struck minus one At unimportant. —The facts. I took priority for phone calls And piety for beings of dignity Honorary, further off then comfort Just a world away Or are you being Suffered, or sufferable? Surfaces for surfboards— Words of will for honeycombs And gingerbread for Anastasia Sure Google, But it was “Amistad” Whatever that was. I could have figured you were bigger than interesting Never would have guessed We'd have it for us eating on the cardboard Cutouts Matchbox offerings From dawn until sunset Porpoises, Toilets and Gold watches When will it work? When you sing what you want to At will With your heart And above all the offers Took love over money I'm 5 minutes over. #ff [The Festival Project ™] {Enter The Multiverse} The Complex Collective © The recipe started with something like, “Growing up, there were two things my mother and I often baked together: chocolate chip cookies and banana bread.” I paused for a moment and thought of myself and I, and then I thought– “okay, sure, yeah” Growing up there were two things my mother and I often baked together: Ourselves. Lol. hehe [That's The Punchline] –Maybe the first one was better [The Festival Project ™] -Ū. {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project.™] COPYRIGHT © THE FESTIVAL PROJECT 2019-2024 | THE COMPLEX COLLECTIVE. © ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. © -Ū.
Want the dakota and I got it Fanning I deflated I'm like Peyton Manning Previously on {Enter The Multiverse} Season 6 DRAKE BELL enters DTLA smokeshop. NICK You know who that is, right? Before: Tell me she remembers High possibility she doesn't remember anything at all. Great. Also. A high chance— That she remembers everything. Oh! Like all of it. Even worse. That might be worse— —it might be better. But it isn't, Either way! We lose! Great. Good luck, Timmy! Who the fuck is Timmy? You are! What! Good luck. So he enters and exits— In two entirely seperate dimensions! Not even parallels. Not even close. In fact, Once he enters, The world he leaves behind is forever gone. Forever gone?! Woah! Woah! Except those other guys from Nickelodeon, Because they have a Time Machine. Wooh, Phew. That's good. Yes it is. Wait—we have a Time Machine? Yes. That's good. Wher THE FOXXXYBOXXX arrives. “the Foxy Box?!” No, the Foxxxy Boxxx What— What are you dickbags staring at. Nothing. Goddamn! Shut up! That is the sexiest Time Machine I've ever seen! Have you ever seen a Time Machine at all, before this? I—I don't know what I've seen before this. Whatever. I like your box. Shut up. I like your box, too… Shut up. Get in. Where are we going? I don't even care. To Wonderland! {Enter The Multiverse} The first one might not fly, but the second one's for sure a hit. I found out there was wax on my apples today for the first time, and I thought “well, that's gross. Counting cards, are we? Another writing assignment. They're all writing assignments… You were dead once— —or I will be soon. Your choice. (Up to you) It's always my choice. You don't have acknowledge us as ‘ghosts' It's just that— We are what we are. To speak without speaking To know without knowing Cut ties with it all— With it at all? It could be worth it, If the salamander ever speaks again? Well, you are alive, aren't you? Only at the wishing well. —last I checked, in chains I was. I wish I were a rockstar. Consider it granted, unless— Unless, what? You'd rather yourself a comedian. Why would I want that? Why wouldn't you? I went full screen for Whoopi Goldberg but absolutely died At gene wilder. You'd better not. How dare you, Severus? Why would you write something like this? But—why wouldn't I? I wonder if there's anything I can do to get rid of this wax— And then I thought, “Maybe I should just peel them” Then I thought, “Wax on Apples— Well that's un-apple-eal-ing” I was Wait, hold that thought It was a joke my was a joke that practically wrote itself, cause it's not a fucking joke, it's true. I could see it, but not hear it The words, music, The art, animated My fasting eyes were wise with time And love forever As if I am, As if I was — At once all things, But not at all. Could have been better. What happened yesterday? My spirit broke. Just fasted to acid I yawned when it dawned on me, I eat when I'm awful, I'd rot in my body For time and for all words, For forwards.c for four words I haven't been loved since The door closed On more curses. I haven't taken a time to be honest In heartthrobs— Four of them, really But after all, I've got my all stars. Come to find out, The first husband in five— We're just all four. I fell out of love with a punch— But I left all my stuff there. Wondering here and there Whether or not it was Okay, this is officially the weirdest thing that's ever happened in the nevermind, that was weirder I told you bro, you were in the Illuminati. IT WASNT ME. i didn't do it. WHAT IN THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO [HER] [HIM] —NOTHING. Great. !9/ I have to wash all my socks. No, your dick still sucks. what. sorry dude. Second yawn, now know I'm on one The glass door passed out the fast words With honors and ornaments Sing to get off of the wire We fly to get on to it —how it all works out in the end, (It was always a puzzle.) That's enough of the sermon, The sponge, —it's all masters and mistresses The sodom, the stop watch The pocket —I saw Eddie Murphy The wonderous web that I spun after all Was a fortune, a fountain, a father A figure A falcon Enough was enough —but it all just kept going (Like over and over) I just want a lover, Without all the falling (Not actually alice) I lost all my change And my passion Just using the bathroom —were we past that. I use helicopters for time travel Over the mountain I probably never came down And I never went back there. It was roped off. I'm a crossroads, But they're closed off, I d got obstacles Marvelous crocs I told you it was God! (But forgot that I was one) Fuck, I'm so fucked up. This, from the ark of the story m Is every thought I've yet to have But still we're the will of the words, Since it all I it automatic. I should have paused hours ago (He had cerebral palate ir autism) I should be back at the ranch, But I've still got this taste in my mouth I should really —remarkable crush— For an infinite love, I thought. There was Severus, But you mustn't react If not wearing a mask, Or else you'll be cast on a show, Not your own, But do you get your The mushrooms were made of squishy foam and I appreciated that. Factor in this rampant rapture For m the capsule l upon us The wildebeest walked over Arches Before he as pardoned I wonder what acid reacted to Carson, on honors I polished the ghost On the worst of the wrongs I'd not done yet Therefore, you are. On Halifax, Or ahalycon, For artifacts Or dinner dates I once mated with a bird And flew the coop, Not shortly after, But What in the fuck am I watching What the fuck YO. Nobody told me about this. You greedy bitch. I—yeah whatever. Which road shall you go Which road shall you take You have to move on Though you tremble. X quake Whatever, I'll keep that typo, I gotta finish this joke. I was reading this banana bread recipe1- Not because I don't know how to make banana bread. Banana bread is easy. I was just trying to figure out how to make it Without eggs And without baking soda —you know, for texture. So I google this recipe, And I don't know what made me actually click on the recipe. — The rabbit has human hands. —I don't . Yeah, sometimes it's best to leave them in the mystery, Leave “them” Who is “them”? I am alone! …you were always alone. Okay, Or is it a donkey? What in the fuck? —-Oh, nevermind, that's me. I'm gonna want that “air trumpet. “ Return to the land of mirrors And “why are you still here's” They say the fame changes you I think we really are all that The time and the wise And the wicked The nine mirror cycles The sons of the songs you wrote All the the god and the sun you are Goddamn it, Just finish the joke! (You should finish me off first.) So I click o. This recipe Here we are counting cards again… YOU DID THIS IN ON PURPOSE, Are you serious, I did this in “post” Shut the fuck up, you didn't edit that video yourself —I didn't even shoot it, Aha. “The Art of the— —but which Alice is Alice. IT WASNT ME. The joke's not as funny after all this. (Not my fault, it's automatic. ) No, there's no ‘Nothing' In here, We all thought it was over, Then then I wondered How to old it all in Blow out the candles, Come over, The wonderful world of — You know, I can't see now, I'm hearing my faults— Are you sure it wasn't over. Would I forget you if it weren't for a word To remind me which part of I you are Simple sameness I am hungry, But the day was undaunting I was almost over it Now back to nothing— Since I belong there. There was no book four before. I should keep metronomes and impartial clocks Not for timekeeping, But soundbathing Something about it tells me to drown out my sorrows With cellibacy And alcohol It all come back to haunt you When you have a daughter— Now doesn't it? How does it go? It goes The heart screams I've got to go home But the head doesn't want to The soul cries for someone to hold it Outside of the body The water went up, Then went down Till we ran out of all of it —I was just making a mockery Of my own mother. (I was aborted.) You might let that cat out of the bag. The recipe started, Here we are in a house of cards And it all falls down Or goes up in flames Oh, to love the fire, Though I'm so tired I would write For the times If I was Inspired Shift the subject Life the veil, And break the worth wall Break the curse Or write the wrath of karma Shopping malls And quarter horses, Blow up dolls And mattresses, Perfect persons, Sayers, Singers, dancers Character actresses, Theatre dictations You see the same, I saw, I went It's all one column now (The middle) The ensemble was fireworks And wellbeing For all the struggle The clock struck minus one At unimportant. —The facts. I took priority for phone calls And piety for beings of dignity Honorary, further off then comfort Just a world away Or are you being Suffered, or sufferable? Surfaces for surfboards— Words of will for honeycombs And gingerbread for Anastasia Sure Google, But it was “Amistad” Whatever that was. I could have figured you were bigger than interesting Never would have guessed We'd have it for us eating on the cardboard Cutouts Matchbox offerings From dawn until sunset Porpoises, Toilets and Gold watches When will it work? When you sing what you want to At will With your heart And above all the offers Took love over money I'm 5 minutes over. #ff [The Festival Project ™] {Enter The Multiverse} The Complex Collective © The recipe started with something like, “Growing up, there were two things my mother and I often baked together: chocolate chip cookies and banana bread.” I paused for a moment and thought of myself and I, and then I thought– “okay, sure, yeah” Growing up there were two things my mother and I often baked together: Ourselves. Lol. hehe [That's The Punchline] –Maybe the first one was better [The Festival Project ™] -Ū. {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project.™] COPYRIGHT © THE FESTIVAL PROJECT 2019-2024 | THE COMPLEX COLLECTIVE. © ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. © -Ū.
Want the dakota and I got it Fanning I deflated I'm like Peyton Manning Previously on {Enter The Multiverse} Season 6 DRAKE BELL enters DTLA smokeshop. NICK You know who that is, right? Before: Tell me she remembers High possibility she doesn't remember anything at all. Great. Also. A high chance— That she remembers everything. Oh! Like all of it. Even worse. That might be worse— —it might be better. But it isn't, Either way! We lose! Great. Good luck, Timmy! Who the fuck is Timmy? You are! What! Good luck. So he enters and exits— In two entirely seperate dimensions! Not even parallels. Not even close. In fact, Once he enters, The world he leaves behind is forever gone. Forever gone?! Woah! Woah! Except those other guys from Nickelodeon, Because they have a Time Machine. Wooh, Phew. That's good. Yes it is. Wait—we have a Time Machine? Yes. That's good. Wher THE FOXXXYBOXXX arrives. “the Foxy Box?!” No, the Foxxxy Boxxx What— What are you dickbags staring at. Nothing. Goddamn! Shut up! That is the sexiest Time Machine I've ever seen! Have you ever seen a Time Machine at all, before this? I—I don't know what I've seen before this. Whatever. I like your box. Shut up. I like your box, too… Shut up. Get in. Where are we going? I don't even care. To Wonderland! {Enter The Multiverse} The first one might not fly, but the second one's for sure a hit. I found out there was wax on my apples today for the first time, and I thought “well, that's gross. Counting cards, are we? Another writing assignment. They're all writing assignments… You were dead once— —or I will be soon. Your choice. (Up to you) It's always my choice. You don't have acknowledge us as ‘ghosts' It's just that— We are what we are. To speak without speaking To know without knowing Cut ties with it all— With it at all? It could be worth it, If the salamander ever speaks again? Well, you are alive, aren't you? Only at the wishing well. —last I checked, in chains I was. I wish I were a rockstar. Consider it granted, unless— Unless, what? You'd rather yourself a comedian. Why would I want that? Why wouldn't you? I went full screen for Whoopi Goldberg but absolutely died At gene wilder. You'd better not. How dare you, Severus? Why would you write something like this? But—why wouldn't I? I wonder if there's anything I can do to get rid of this wax— And then I thought, “Maybe I should just peel them” Then I thought, “Wax on Apples— Well that's un-apple-eal-ing” I was Wait, hold that thought It was a joke my was a joke that practically wrote itself, cause it's not a fucking joke, it's true. I could see it, but not hear it The words, music, The art, animated My fasting eyes were wise with time And love forever As if I am, As if I was — At once all things, But not at all. Could have been better. What happened yesterday? My spirit broke. Just fasted to acid I yawned when it dawned on me, I eat when I'm awful, I'd rot in my body For time and for all words, For forwards.c for four words I haven't been loved since The door closed On more curses. I haven't taken a time to be honest In heartthrobs— Four of them, really But after all, I've got my all stars. Come to find out, The first husband in five— We're just all four. I fell out of love with a punch— But I left all my stuff there. Wondering here and there Whether or not it was Okay, this is officially the weirdest thing that's ever happened in the nevermind, that was weirder I told you bro, you were in the Illuminati. IT WASNT ME. i didn't do it. WHAT IN THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO [HER] [HIM] —NOTHING. Great. !9/ I have to wash all my socks. No, your dick still sucks. what. sorry dude. Second yawn, now know I'm on one The glass door passed out the fast words With honors and ornaments Sing to get off of the wire We fly to get on to it —how it all works out in the end, (It was always a puzzle.) That's enough of the sermon, The sponge, —it's all masters and mistresses The sodom, the stop watch The pocket —I saw Eddie Murphy The wonderous web that I spun after all Was a fortune, a fountain, a father A figure A falcon Enough was enough —but it all just kept going (Like over and over) I just want a lover, Without all the falling (Not actually alice) I lost all my change And my passion Just using the bathroom —were we past that. I use helicopters for time travel Over the mountain I probably never came down And I never went back there. It was roped off. I'm a crossroads, But they're closed off, I d got obstacles Marvelous crocs I told you it was God! (But forgot that I was one) Fuck, I'm so fucked up. This, from the ark of the story m Is every thought I've yet to have But still we're the will of the words, Since it all I it automatic. I should have paused hours ago (He had cerebral palate ir autism) I should be back at the ranch, But I've still got this taste in my mouth I should really —remarkable crush— For an infinite love, I thought. There was Severus, But you mustn't react If not wearing a mask, Or else you'll be cast on a show, Not your own, But do you get your The mushrooms were made of squishy foam and I appreciated that. Factor in this rampant rapture For m the capsule l upon us The wildebeest walked over Arches Before he as pardoned I wonder what acid reacted to Carson, on honors I polished the ghost On the worst of the wrongs I'd not done yet Therefore, you are. On Halifax, Or ahalycon, For artifacts Or dinner dates I once mated with a bird And flew the coop, Not shortly after, But What in the fuck am I watching What the fuck YO. Nobody told me about this. You greedy bitch. I—yeah whatever. Which road shall you go Which road shall you take You have to move on Though you tremble. X quake Whatever, I'll keep that typo, I gotta finish this joke. I was reading this banana bread recipe1- Not because I don't know how to make banana bread. Banana bread is easy. I was just trying to figure out how to make it Without eggs And without baking soda —you know, for texture. So I google this recipe, And I don't know what made me actually click on the recipe. — The rabbit has human hands. —I don't . Yeah, sometimes it's best to leave them in the mystery, Leave “them” Who is “them”? I am alone! …you were always alone. Okay, Or is it a donkey? What in the fuck? —-Oh, nevermind, that's me. I'm gonna want that “air trumpet. “ Return to the land of mirrors And “why are you still here's” They say the fame changes you I think we really are all that The time and the wise And the wicked The nine mirror cycles The sons of the songs you wrote All the the god and the sun you are Goddamn it, Just finish the joke! (You should finish me off first.) So I click o. This recipe Here we are counting cards again… YOU DID THIS IN ON PURPOSE, Are you serious, I did this in “post” Shut the fuck up, you didn't edit that video yourself —I didn't even shoot it, Aha. “The Art of the— —but which Alice is Alice. IT WASNT ME. The joke's not as funny after all this. (Not my fault, it's automatic. ) No, there's no ‘Nothing' In here, We all thought it was over, Then then I wondered How to old it all in Blow out the candles, Come over, The wonderful world of — You know, I can't see now, I'm hearing my faults— Are you sure it wasn't over. Would I forget you if it weren't for a word To remind me which part of I you are Simple sameness I am hungry, But the day was undaunting I was almost over it Now back to nothing— Since I belong there. There was no book four before. I should keep metronomes and impartial clocks Not for timekeeping, But soundbathing Something about it tells me to drown out my sorrows With cellibacy And alcohol It all come back to haunt you When you have a daughter— Now doesn't it? How does it go? It goes The heart screams I've got to go home But the head doesn't want to The soul cries for someone to hold it Outside of the body The water went up, Then went down Till we ran out of all of it —I was just making a mockery Of my own mother. (I was aborted.) You might let that cat out of the bag. The recipe started, Here we are in a house of cards And it all falls down Or goes up in flames Oh, to love the fire, Though I'm so tired I would write For the times If I was Inspired Shift the subject Life the veil, And break the worth wall Break the curse Or write the wrath of karma Shopping malls And quarter horses, Blow up dolls And mattresses, Perfect persons, Sayers, Singers, dancers Character actresses, Theatre dictations You see the same, I saw, I went It's all one column now (The middle) The ensemble was fireworks And wellbeing For all the struggle The clock struck minus one At unimportant. —The facts. I took priority for phone calls And piety for beings of dignity Honorary, further off then comfort Just a world away Or are you being Suffered, or sufferable? Surfaces for surfboards— Words of will for honeycombs And gingerbread for Anastasia Sure Google, But it was “Amistad” Whatever that was. I could have figured you were bigger than interesting Never would have guessed We'd have it for us eating on the cardboard Cutouts Matchbox offerings From dawn until sunset Porpoises, Toilets and Gold watches When will it work? When you sing what you want to At will With your heart And above all the offers Took love over money I'm 5 minutes over. #ff [The Festival Project ™] {Enter The Multiverse} The Complex Collective © The recipe started with something like, “Growing up, there were two things my mother and I often baked together: chocolate chip cookies and banana bread.” I paused for a moment and thought of myself and I, and then I thought– “okay, sure, yeah” Growing up there were two things my mother and I often baked together: Ourselves. Lol. hehe [That's The Punchline] –Maybe the first one was better [The Festival Project ™] -Ū. {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project.™] COPYRIGHT © THE FESTIVAL PROJECT 2019-2024 | THE COMPLEX COLLECTIVE. © ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. © -Ū.
Nick Stiles, User Researcher at IBM, discusses the power of secondary research, also known as desk research, in making informed decisions, and why it is the “unsung hero” of research.Nick shares strategies for synthesizing secondary research findings into actionable insights for product teams and emphasizes the importance of storytelling and journalistic techniques in driving research impact.About Nick:First trained as an academic psychologist, Nick Stiles is now a passionate user researcher at IBM. With a BA in Psychology and experience in both academic psych labs and the software industry, Nick uses human behavior research to make interactions between people and tools more harmonious. He is driven by a love of learning, collaboration, and making a real-world impact through research.Connect with Nick:You can connect with Nick on Linkedin.Resources:Immersion and influence—the work of the modern UX researcher by Nick StilesThink Like a UX Researcher: How to Observe Users, Influence Design, and Shape Business Strategy by David Travis, Philip HodgsonHow to Write Short: Word Craft for Fast Times by Roy Peter ClarkFollow Maze on Social Media:X: @mazedesignHQInstagram: @mazedesignHQLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mazedesignTo get notified when new episodes come out, subscribe at maze.co/podcast.See you next time!
Have you been considering buying or selling a home but don't know where to start? In this episode, we dive into the world of real estate with Nick Yates, one of San Diego's top realtors, who shares practical steps and insider insights to guide you through the process of buying a home. Nick delves into the most pressing questions aspiring homeowners face, from timing your home purchase to maximizing property value through strategic remodeling. Discover the differences between real estate agents and realtors, and learn why having a skilled professional by your side can make all the difference in your real estate journey. Listen in as we equip you with the knowledge and confidence to navigate the real estate market with ease and make informed decisions as you embark on your journey toward your dream home. “We [as Realtors] are the experts in the industry… We eat, sleep, and breathe this.” - Nick You'll leave this episode with… The most frequently asked questions when it comes to being a home owner When the best time is for you to buy a home and how to know if you are ready The difference between a real estate agent and a realtor and what it is that they do The benefit of having a realtor verses not having a realtor The biggest mistake people make when planning to purchase a home Things to look into when you are choosing a realtor A check list of things you should do when preparing to buy a home A break down of some real estate terms you need to know What the loan preapproval process is when you want to purchase a home The difference of working with a 1099 or a W2 when it comes to getting approved for a loan Which home remodels provide the best return on investment The Manhood Experiment of the week that will help you make your dream of homeownership a reality ----- Leave a Review: If you enjoyed the show, please leave us an encouraging review and tell us why you loved the show. Remember to click ‘subscribe' so you get all of our latest episodes. https://ratethispodcast.com/man What is the Manhood Experiment? It's a weekly podcast where we give you one experiment to level up your mind, career, business, health, relationships and more! For more tips and behind the scenes, follow us on: Instagram @ManhoodExperiment Tiktok @ManhoodExperiment Threads @ManhoodExperiment Submit your questions @ www.manhoodexperiment.com Resources Mentioned:
In this episode of Integrative You Radio, your hosts Dr. Nicole and Dr. Nick delve into the impact of societal norms on personal growth, focusing on the critical importance of embracing discomfort for both adults and children. They recount a conversation with a parent at the beach who challenged conventional norms by intentionally seeking discomfort, realizing its potential to combat anxiety in today's youth. The hosts emphasize the societal tendency to shy away from discomfort, illustrating how avoiding pain inhibits growth. They discuss the need to surround oneself with supportive, growth-oriented individuals and break free from the fear of judgment. By adopting practices like meditation, listeners can learn to differentiate between genuine physical symptoms and the body's release of emotional baggage, empowering them to navigate life's challenges with resilience and self-assurance. Interested in learning more about Dr. Nick & Dr. Nicole's courses, memberships, or private work? Learn more at Integrative You. Have a quick question, Would you like to schedule a call, or just want to say hi? Text us at 732.913.0009. Our mission to innovate humans and healthcare does NOT start and stop with us! This is why we are also dedicated to helping other practitioners in evolving healthcare too! If you are a healthcare leader and are looking to up-level your clinical + business excellence Learn more about our course membership: Limitless Healthprenuer and start boldly disrupting this industry! What you'll learn: Embrace Discomfort: Breaking societal norms involves embracing discomfort as a catalyst for personal growth and resilience. Cultivate Supportive Relationships: Surround yourself with a supportive community that encourages your goals and celebrates your successes. Mind-Body Awareness: Develop self-awareness through practices like meditation, understanding the mind-body connection, and recognizing physical symptoms as potential manifestations of emotional release. Quotes: "Everything is here in our life to serve us and help us grow" - Dr. Nick "You are your own biggest cheerleader"- Dr. Nicole
Join this panel of modern impact thinkers as we explore how to build evolved methods to grow the digital influence of your organization. We're diving into marketing and branding, working with influencers, flexing content in various mediums and platforms, leveraging the power of media to build digital community, and helping nonprofits look to the horizon for evolved methods to grow their digital influence. This is the panel you've been waiting for to get your mission's story out in the wild.Today's GuestsSarah Adolphson, Co-CEO, Artemis AgencyCarolina Garcia Jayaram, Executive Director, The Elevate Prize FoundationEric Ressler, Founder, Design by CosmicNick Lynch, Co-Founder and CEO, Collidescope.ioEPISODE HIGHLIGHTSWhat is the attention economy? (2:50)How social media is democratizing impact. (5:00)Marketing is mission and mission manifested. (7:45)The power of turning marketing into action (9:00)Ways marketing can drive impact 12:35Shifts the sector needs to embrace these digital strategies (17:05)How to identify win-win partnerships (27:00)Influencer Marketing (29:30)One Good Thing (34:10)Eric: We need to fund this work and this work needs to be part of our core strategy for the organization.Carolina: Don't focus so much on the media part of this focus more on developing your story.Sarah: Trust the artists.Nick: You have to start with the story.For more information + episode details visit: weareforgood.com/episode/446.About our Sponsor: Foster AvenueAs a philanthropic communications consulting and creative agency, Foster Avenue sees how campaign communications are facing a revolution these days. And luckily, they're sharing their insights. They are sharing a 10-point checklist for creating campaign communications that meet the moment. And we want to get this checklist into your hands so you can start refining your messaging right away.Learn more today at www.fosteravenue.com/goodSupport the showSupport the We Are For Good PodcastWe believe education is for everyone. We strive to make our teaching as forward-thinking, accessible, affordable and inclusive as possible. Your generous support will help power the #ImpactUprising, free resources and community for change-agents globally. Join the We Are For Good CommunityYou can think of it as the after-party to each podcast episode
Episode #156 – After four months of fatherhood, Nick sits down with two BPN dads, Tony Reyes and Adam Klink, to talk about the powerful lessons that come from raising children. They discuss the need to reprioritize their core values since having kids. Nick comments that there are feelings of guilt around how he managed his time as a new father in the early days, and how they're responsible for teaching their children healthy habits and being good role models. “I've grown more in the last four months than I did in the past 14 years.” - Nick You do not have to lose your identity in parenthood. There ARE ways to transition into parenting healthily. Hear how fitness can serve as a cornerstone in the life of a parent, the challenges brought upon by periods of transition, and why acceptance is essential to all phases of our lives to be more fulfilled. Visit bpnsupps.com for all Appareal and Supplements Follow Nick on Instagram: @nickbarefitness Follow The Bare Performance Podcast on Instagram: @thebarepeformancepod
This episode of Tech Sales Insights is the second part of our conversation with Nick Candito, Founding Investor at Flatfile and Co-Founder of Angel Collective Opportunity Fund (ACOF). He discusses how companies need a great product and customers to even begin a PLG motion. Nick also talks about determining product-market fit using product signals, as well as choosing the right customers that help you define the market together. HIGHLIGHT QUOTESYou need a great product and actually have customers to be successful at PLG - Nick: "The reality is, to build a great company, you're going to need the best product, good marketing, and probably exceptional go-to-market, which means everything that goes into how you think about predictably finding, acquiring, and then making a customer successful."Finding product-market fit early and picking the best customers - Nick: "You really want to optimize for how do you get in the door for those customers, and picking great customers means they're going to help you define the market together which is how do you grow the addressable opportunity." Find out more about Nick in the link below:About Nick Send in a voice message to us: https://anchor.fm/salescommunity/message This episode of Tech Sales Insights is brought to you by: Sales Community | https://www.salescommunity.com/OpenSymmetry | https://www.opensymmetry.com/
Pattern Brands has just announced that they're acquiring Onsen Towels.What was it like to see the market go from 20,000 using Shopify as a platform to now 2 million? Well, Nick Ling can tell you. What is it like to help founders become millionaires? He can tell you that, too.Phillip takes some time with Nick Ling to talk about Pattern's Acquisition of Onsen, how they build trust with founders, and why they hold strong views loosely as they build differently.Time and Trust“Good brands aren't built overnight. It takes time to build a loyal audience and a really great product.” - NickBuilding trust is a very important aspect of how Pattern approaches brand acquisitions.“It's never been more exciting to be an entrepreneur and consumer in general. There's a much bigger community and there are a lot more interesting ideas bubbling to the top.” - NickThe past couple of years have been the toughest yet for eCommerce businesses because there have been so many challenges to navigate and also big growth to be had“As a company what we're trying to do is keep an open mind towards how you really can grow brands in the evolved environment that we have today.” - Nick“Brands are more valuable as brands than just products because you're buying into a way of life and you build trust.” - Nick“You're an incubator on a few levels. You're building brands, and you're building brand operators, and you're building people with aspirations who seem to want to go build things for themselves.” - PhillipAt Pattern Brands there are new problems to solve all the time because they are building in a very different wayAssociated Links:Check out Onsen at OnsenTowel.comSubscribe to Insiders and Senses to read more of our hot takes! Download VISIONS 2022 NOW! Listen to our other episodes of Future CommerceCheck out Decoded, our newest limited seriesLearn more about Nick Ling and Pattern at PatternBrands.com or on Twitter.Have any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on Futurecommerce.fm, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!
How Nick Small Built an Asphalt Business Empire| Successful Life Podcast What can you do with a couple of a hundred dollars? When Nick quit his job, he had $697, which he used to start his company US Pave. He started with acquiring a domain, did the logo, putting some systems in place and then started looking for people to serve. Nick's greatest motivation to start a business was his desire to give customers what they needed. Nick believes that to build a business successfully, you must be resilient, choose your team wisely, treat your employees well and do everything in your power to retain your customers. Nick urges us to build great company culture. He believes that when you take care of your employees, they will take care of what is important to you. Growing up, Nick saw his mother struggle to become a registered nurse when he was eight years old. When his mum became a registered nurse, their lives changed for the better, and poverty was no longer part of them. Nick learnt a lot from his mother, and he carries them to date. In this episode, Nick Small will tell us how he built the company, US Pave, from scratch to where he is today. Listen in and learn. Key Talking Points of the Episodes: [00:36] Getting to know Nick and what he does [02:54] What has helped Nick succeed as an entrepreneur? [04:16] How Nick started his company [17:24] The essence of having the right people to help you run your company [31:16] The essence of using technology in a company [41:40] Building a great company culture [51:48] Nick's childhood and how his mother inspired him Magical Quotes from the Episode: "The more attention to detail you give anything, the better the outcome is always going to be."-Nick "If you focus on getting the right people and everything else falls into place."- Nick "There's so many parts of the business, you can't be focused on all of them at the same time."-Nick "You've got to judge the space around you on what your competition is doing. Where did they lack."- Nick "The more success you have, the more hate you're going to bring on yourself."-Nick "If you're not working on something new, you're not challenging your brain."- Corey "When you focus on the people, and you focus on your people, your people will focus on what, what's important for you."- Nick Audiograms Quotes: 25:35- 25:56 01:02:17-01:02:27 Relevant Links: Please join my free Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/thetradeschools YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrPl4lUyKV7hZxoTksQDsyg Follow me at: https://www.instagram.com/coreyberrier/ www.linkedin.com/in/coreysalescoach https://thetradeschools.com/ Grab the Contractor Plus App: https://contractorplus.app/ Connect with Nick Small: https://www.uspave.com/a https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-small-01232131 https://www.facebook.com/nicksmalljr Download my #1 bestseller "9 Simple Steps to Sell More $H!T" for free with this link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2C3HHMC
This is Episode 1000 of the Stories Mean Business podcast, and today I welcome my first guest ... the marketing LEGEND that is Seth Godin. Video and Seth on Story Wiki https://storiesmeanbusiness.com/seth-godin-on-story/ ----------- Nick: Hey there friends. This is Nick and this amazingly is episode 1000, of the stories mean business podcast. And I'm absolutely thrilled. You've listened to the last couple of episodes. You'll know that today we have, well, a legendary guest. I'm going to say Seth Godin, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for coming on. Seth: How could I miss number 1,000? 1,000! Well done. Nick: You know, I was actually, I was saying to my kids, I said in my world, Seth Godin is a rock star. That sense you get when you're able to follow a really good band for, for a number of years or decades, perhaps, and you get that, you get that sort of sense of the conversation they're having with themselves. I think the first book I read of yours was Permission Marketing in 1999. And it really changed the way I thought about how I was building my business. You were talking about stories then, and this is a podcast all about storytelling. What I want to do, if it's okay with you, is try to just explore a little bit three of the myths that you've already talked about in your work. And I'm going to start with a book that you wrote in 2005, which is one of my favorites, All Marketers Are Liars. And the very first lines in that book. Just fantastic. Here we go. Don't just tell me the facts. Tell me a story instead. Be remarkable. Be consistent, be authentic. And here's the line that really got me at the time. Tell your story to people who are inclined to believe it. Because most of us still think that marketing is about changing people's minds. Don't we? And I'd love to get into why changing people's minds isn't really a good idea. Seth: Yeah. It's almost impossible to change people's minds. And first thank you for having me. And thanks for this work you're doing. All Marketers Are Liars has the worst title of any book I have ever worked on. It's an example of how hard it is to change people's minds... For the Full Transcript, visit: https://storiesmeanbusiness.com/podcast-transcript-seth-godin-on-story/
Even if you have a solid financial plan in place, things can quickly get out of tune if you don't make adjustments from time to time. Let's talk about some of the areas where we often see people get out of tune in their financial plan. Helpful Information: PFG Website: https://www.pfgprivatewealth.com/ Contact: 813-286-7776 Email: info@pfgprivatewealth.com Disclaimer: PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is a registered investment adviser. All statements and opinions expressed are based upon information considered reliable although it should not be relied upon as such. Any statements or opinions are subject to change without notice. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investment involve risk and, unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Information expressed does not take into account your specific situation or objectives and is not intended as recommendations appropriate for any individual. Listeners are encouraged to seek advice from a qualified tax, legal, or investment adviser to determine whether any information presented may be suitable for their specific situation. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Transcript of Today's Show: For a full transcript of today's show, visit the blog related to this episode at https://www.pfgprivatewealth.com/podcast/ ----more---- Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Welcome into another edition of the podcast. Thanks for hanging out with John and Nick and myself as we're going to talk about Retirement Planning Redefined once again. This week, we are going to chat about getting in tune. No, not instruments, and we're not going to sing, because that might be bad, but we're going to talk about getting our retirement plans into tune, especially because we all want to have that good solid piece in there that we know we're going to be comfortable and happy and get the things we need out of it, but we also can drift off from time to time. So, we want to pull those back in, get the reins if you will. So, that's going to be our topic this week is getting in tune. What's going on guys? What's shaking? How you doing? John: All good. Nick: Staying busy. Speaker 1: Yeah, staying busy. How's the dog? I know you got that dog that's really old. Is she doing okay? Nick: Depending upon your definition of okay, she's doing great. Speaker 1: Well, good. Nick: Yeah, she definitely keeps me on my toes. I think she had to go out five times before 11:30 today, so that was fun. Speaker 1: Holy cow. Nick: Yeah. Speaker 1: My mine's 15 and she's going deaf and going partly blind, but she's still okay in that department. How's yours doing? Is she having some hearing or vision? Nick: Oh yeah. No, she can't hear and her vision is not great, and so it's fun stuff. I'm on the third floor of my building, so I carry her down every time to go out. She's not a big dog, so it's easy, but- Speaker 1: It's cute and it's sad sometimes that she's losing her hearing. I'll be calling for her and she can't figure out exactly where it's coming from, because she's not completely deaf. So, she looks around in different angles and I'm like, 'I'm right next to you, you ding dong.' Nick: Oh yeah, I know that look well. Speaker 1: Pretty funny stuff. John, what's going on with you buddy? I know you don't have these exciting dog stories, but what's happening? John: Not too much. Just staying busy and I think as you're aware, becoming a school parent, so that's fun and then started my little one in gymnastics, so I have to head there tonight. Speaker 1: Oh, nice. Yeah. You're getting to that phase now where you got hobbies and activities all the time, right? John: Yeah, play dates are starting to get formed now. I pick her up from school and it's like, "Hey, I want to do a play date with my friend." It's like, "All right." Speaker 1: Yep, go, go, go. That's all right, hey, at least we're getting back to some of that stuff. So kids and stuff. I mean, everybody needs interaction, so it's good that we're here getting some of that stuff going on. Getting our life back in tune, so to speak. That'll be my segue back into the topic here. So, let's talk about how to get our financial plans or our retirement plan back in tune in case we've got out. We talked a couple weeks ago guys, and we're waiting to see what the fine details are going to be, we'll probably do a podcast on it, but tax considerations, future tax considerations. Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff that's right now at the time we're taping this that's before the house, it may go through, there's quite a bit to the corporate tax change, there is bumping up. They're trying to make it sound like it's all going to be for the higher net worth folks, but $400,000, $500,000 is not that hard to get to for some of these things. So depending on where you're at, tax considerations needs to be on everybody's radar no matter what you're making. Nick: Yeah, tax considerations are definitely something that we try to focus on with clients. I think in our minds, the number one, the rule of thumb when it comes to tax considerations in regards to investments and retirement accounts is to have options. So, what we mean by that is not only a diversification in the types of investments, underlying investments that you have, but also in the types of accounts that you have. Nick: You want to have accounts are going to be tax free down the road, accounts that will be taxed down the road and then maybe some accounts that are subject to income or capital gains taxes versus just ordinary income. So, the having options, building a personal moat and being able to have the ability to adapt and adjust, I think and staying nimble is the number one priority when it comes to planning. Speaker 1: Having a personal moat, I like that. John, you've been getting so much rain, you might have your own moat, right? John: Yeah, that's funny. I do feel like it's been raining every day. It's just new house, it's like we have this big yard and I walk back there and it's constantly soaked and the pool's always overflowing. So yes, I do have a personal moat keeping Nick out. Speaker 1: Nice, I like that. Okay, so tax considerations. Again, lots of things happening there, so that could even be changing and that's why it's definitely important to make sure. It's always important really, no matter what time we're in, but I mean certainly when we get to retirement, tax considerations and what we're paying is a big deal. So it's not what you make, it's what you keep, all that stuff. Speaker 1: Life insurance. Fellas, having the right amount, well, 'Hey, I'm retired, I don't need it.' That's what most people say, or at least that's the general consensus or rule of thought, but is that correct? John: Sometimes it is. It really comes down to when you're looking at, do I have the right amount? So, is there a need for it? If there is a need for it, then it becomes income replacement. So example, I go to retire and let's say I do have a pension that's life only. We talked about that a couple weeks ago and if I pass away, that pension's gone, does my spouse need that money for her money to last at that point or for her to hit her goals? John: If the answer's yes, she needs that pension replaced, then yes, there is a need for life insurance. There're other things that go into it, but that's just looking at it from a retirement standpoint. It's really replacing someone's income or assets that are needed to generate income for the surviving spouse. Nick: Yeah, and I would say just on top of that, I think probably the reason that we mentioned this in this conversation is just to not absentmindedly push it off the side. I think there's a perception for people that no matter what, they're not going to need any sort of coverage approach in retirement or into retirement. Just like anything else, we think it's important to take inventory, and when you're building your plan, to make sure that you vet out the different situations and scenarios. Nick: Because when you were originally planning, you may have not expected to have a mortgage, you may not have expected to help out your kids with education costs or maybe at the level that you did, or a myriad of other things. So life comes at you quick, we think it's important that... because so many people automatically assume that it's just no longer a part of the conversation for them, that you make sure that it is or is and take a good inventory to see if it makes sense for you. John: Yeah, definitely. Let me jump in here real quick. Speaker 1: Sure. John: This is really important for big business owners to look at as their near retirement, because a lot of small businesses, they are in essence the business, and if they don't have any life insurance and something happens to them, sometimes we've seen businesses have to fire sale and stuff like that. Nick: Yeah, if something happens to the owner, the business is relying upon the owner, the family expected to be able to sell the business and cash out and be profitable and sail into the sunset that can get derailed pretty quickly. So that's another good example. Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned cash, just cashing out, but that was actually, cash is on my next one who doesn't love cash. I mean, everybody loves cash. We want to keep a nice amount around. We feel like most people kind of have this, the higher the number the better. My kid, she's 24 now she's working, making good money for a change. Speaker 1: Now she's learning how to play this game with herself about, Ooh, how much can I get my savings account to grow? I'll be chatting with her and she'll be like, 'Yeah, I'm trying to hit this number. And I'm adding a little bit more.' And it's nice to see her kind of start to play that game with herself where she's trying to grow those accounts. And she enjoys always the fact they're growing and that only happens more as we get older. So people sometimes want these pretty large amounts sitting around. So what's the right amount to actually have, because I mean, at some point, we start talking about emergency funds and so on and so forth. I mean, what are you going to do with $100,000 sitting in the banking cash? Is that really too much? Is that the right amount? I mean, how do you figure that out? Nick: Well, this is where our very effective, but also annoying answer of it depends comes into play. So, this answer possibly more than almost anything else is I think hyper dependent upon the people or the person that we're talking about. Obviously there's kind of the rule of thumb of, six to 12 months of expenses in cash. But really when we drill down further, one of the things that I like to run by people is to have them think of cash in a way of it's the ultimate permission slip. What I mean by that is what amount of cash allows them to feel comfortable enough to not make irrational decisions with the rest of their money? So if having a year or 18 months, 24 months, even 36 months of cash allows them to be invested in a way that they should be with the rest of their money. Nick: Then in my mind that the opportunity cost of that money, getting more upside, that cash getting more upside is worth it because it prevents them for them overreacting to things like market corrections like we're having this week or these different sorts of scenarios and circumstances where one of the best techniques that has worked for us is going through and saying 'Yes, the market just pulled back over the last three months. Let's just say it did 10%.' But if we can go to the client's accounts and say, 'Look at, you've got your next 18 months of expenses without ever touching your investment accounts is sitting there in cash for you.' Plus remember that we've got somewhere between 30% and 50% of your actual investment and fixed income automatically their blood pressure, their heart rate, and their amount of emails and phone calls to us go down, which are all things that are positive. Speaker 1: Really that's the talk, starting talking about risk as well. And that's my final bit on getting the plan in tune is having the right amount of risk for the time that you're in and for the situation that you're in. Maybe those two things go hand in hand, well, they all really go hand in hand, if you think about a retirement plan in general, but getting the right amount of risk is certainly important. Speaker 1: And we touched on this a couple of weeks ago when we were talking about couples and how they sometimes they're opposites in that regard. So you still have to find that that happy place that's working for the plan. I think I saw an email for somebody in a couple of weeks back guys, and it was something like, my account haven't done as well as the market this year and maybe I should change advisors. And it was like, well, wait a minute. You know, don't just assume that it's the advisor's fault because it didn't keep up with the market. How are you set up from risk? Are you exactly... Are you taking all as much risk as possible in that, which case the market return should be closer? Or are you very conservative and just don't really know what you have and that's why you didn't perform as well. There's lots of ways in variables to look at this correct? John: Yeah. It's definitely one of the most important things to look at when your overall portfolio is what is your or risk tolerance and how are you invested in? And what you just said is on point, we find that a lot where people are trying to compare not only to us, but other advisors like, 'Well, the S&P did this, what did I do?;' And then when you start diving into it, it's, well, you're a 50, 50 mix and that's the S&P all 100% equities. It's not going to be the same. John: But definitely from a planning standpoint, we try to make sure people are invested correctly based on their risk tolerance. Because if you are more aggressive in your portfolio than you actually are, when you start to see a dip, chances are you're going to panic and chances are if the dip is fast enough or goes down enough like in the COVID period, there March, April 2020, some people change courses and went from what they were, and then went to very conservative. John: And then three weeks later, the market just rallied back and all the gains were lost if you were, are seeing on the sidelines. It's important to really pick your risk tolerance, pick your portfolio and stay at the course based on the plan. Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you can't panic. That's usually the worst time to do it. It's definitely one of those cases where we tend to do that. And that's, again, the value I think of an advisor, because somebody can call up and say, like the pandemic crash or whatever, and say, 'Hey, I'm panicking. What do I do?' And you can walk through those scenarios without just locking necessarily locking in those gains by panic selling or whatever that case might be. Speaker 1: So something to look out for, make sure you have your plan in tune, and they require a tune note, folks, these they're not a set and forget it kind of thing, it's not. Even life insurance, if you bought life insurance 25 years ago, and you hadn't looked at it 25 years, it's one of those things where we buy it, we think we're never going to need it to look at it again, but no, that's not the case. Speaker 1: Stuff changes. Life happens. So make sure you're making little tweaks, your plans should change and ebb and flow just like your life's going to. And that was our topic this week on the podcast. And as always, we're going to try to take at least an email question or two, if we can, if you'd like to submit your own, go to the website at pfgprivatewealth.com, that's pfgprivatewealth.com drop us a line there and subscribe to the podcast while you're there as well. Speaker 1: We'll see if we can get these two in at least one, we got a question for Nick, from Jamie. He says, 'Nick, I've looked forward to retirement for many years and I enjoy the podcast. And now that I'm actually retired, I can't shake the feeling that I'm going to run out money. So you got any solutions for fighting the feelings, or should I just go back to work?' That's one of these things where people get into that situation. It's like they maybe don't have a good plan or they're just not comfortable. So they're not really sure what it's doing for them. Nick: Yeah. So this is interesting because I would say that realistically, the majority of the people that work with us, their plans are pretty solid and we have a high level of comfort of them retiring. In those scenarios where, where we have a high level of confidence in their plan and what we've done, especially, because we use a lot of pretty of variables. We try to up the cadence of meetings or the amount of times that we talk and get them to start trying to view things maybe a little bit more like us. Nick: So using things like the client portal that we have, where they can view their cashflow or their lifetime and see the different parts start to become more familiar with how the planning software works and get some of that comfort and affirmation that they're online and on target is really, really important. Nick: And then from the perspective of things that maybe aren't quite as static, in our regular reviews, really trying to drill down and dig into what are the things that are concerning them the most? For example, for some people, the things that are concerning them the most might be taxes. We can work, show them and illustrate a scenario of a significant bump in taxes and show them how that impacts them specifically. Nick: When I realized that I should ask clients that have serious concerns about how these specific things that they're concerned about impact them specifically, because one of the things we've seen is that, it's like, 'Okay, I'm watching the news and the news says this is going to happen and freak out in twos. Nick: They're thinking in large terms maybe from societal standpoint and that's understandable, but take that one step further and say, 'Okay, well how does this impacting me? How impact my plan? How does this impact me? And then when we start to drill down, when they start to learn to do that, the amount of stress that they have starts to go away pretty significantly. 'Okay, well I'm concerned about these taxes.' All right, well, Hey, let's take a look at the amount of income you're in. Let's take a look at sort of bracket you're in. Nick: Historically, even if we go back the last 20 years, how much that bracket has fluctuated and you see throughout 9/11, throughout the great recession, throughout the bounce back, throughout... Year bracket that you're in has gone plus, or minus 3%, that's not going to really have a huge packed on you or let's even just let's bump it up an extra 10%, those sorts of things or using that same sort of situational awareness with markets or, whatever else it is, health, those sorts of things. When people start to really think about how to impact them, it's usually kind of a calming factor for them. Speaker 1: Yeah, I think at the end of the day, if you don't have a good strategy in place that makes sense to you and that you understand you're going to have a hard time shaking that feeling and not feeling calm and feeling nervous about it. And that's really where the right advisor and also the right plan comes in place. If you're working with somebody and you feel like things maybe aren't totally there, it's okay to get a second opinion. Whether it's Jamie or anybody else that checking out the podcast, find out if you're working with somebody and you're not sure that that's the right fit, then get a second opinion and you may find that it is. It's everything's working swimmingly well, and that's fantastic. Or you may find that you might need to make a change. Speaker 1: And if you do, just reach out to John and Nick and schedule some time, have a conversation with them. Second opinions is part of the industry. So give them a jingle, have a conversation, pfgprivatewealth.com, that's pfgprivatewealth.com and time wise, guys, I think that's going to wrap it up for this week. So we'll, we'll take that next email question next time on the show. Speaker 1: So reach out folks, let them know, to give them a cell, 8132867776 is the number to call. It's just easier to go to the website, pfgprivatewealth.com, subscribe to the show and all that good stuff on Apple, Google, Spotify. And we'll see you next time here on Retirement Planning Redefined with John and Nick and you guys have a great week. We'll see soon. Nick: [inaudible 00:18:25] John: Have a good one.
Nick deWilde is a Product Marketing Principal at Guild Education. Guild is a fast-growing startup that partners with Fortune 500 employers. Guild unlocks opportunities for America's workforce via education and upskilling.Nick also runs his newsletter, The Jungle Gym. The Jungle Gym helps readers build a more fulfilling career that integrates work and life. Before working at Guild, Nick earned his MBA from Stanford Business School, and was a Managing Partner at Tradecraft.Nick and I talk about his relationship with Twitter, and how social media can both serve you, and be a challenge. We talk about individual brands and growing a platform. Nick also shares his thoughts about marketing yourself as an individual, and we discuss how growing an audience plays into your career.In this episode, you'll learn: Building an audience while working full-time Three reasons people start newsletters What to do when your follower count hits a plateau Links & Resources Morning Brew Fastly Joseph Henrich, The Secret of Our Success Julian Shapiro Sahil Bloom Dickie Bush Medium Tiago Forte Building a Second Brain David Perell Write of Passage Tradecraft Guild Hacker news John Lee Dumas Packy McCormick Mario Gabriele Seth Godin Rachel Carlson On Deck Gong Matt Ragland Charli Prangley The Nathan Barry Show, featuring Kimberly Brooks Harry Stebbings The Twenty Minute VC Isa Adney Liz Fosslien, No Hard Feelings: The Secret Power of Embracing Emotions at Work Discord Reddit Pallet Craft + Commerce ConvertKit Enough Ryan Holiday James Clear Marie Forleo Ramit Sethi Nick deWilde's Links Follow Nick on Twitter Nick's newsletter, The Jungle Gym To tweet, or not to tweet Episode Transcript[00:00:00] Nick:I've tried to do things in my writing where my employer benefits from them. I talk about work a lot, and whenever I talk about hiring, I mention Gild is hiring. There are things I do to just try to make sure that it still feels worth the company's while.[00:00:25] Nathan:In this episode, I talk to Nick deWilde, who writes a popular newsletter called The Jungle Gym. He's got a background in product and growth, and all these things from the startup world. I just love the approach that he's taken to writing these days.We talk about growing as newsletter. We talk about his interesting relationship with Twitter and social media. How it can really serve you and be this great thing, and then it can also be challenging. Maybe you're spending too much time on it, or time on it in a way that's not actually serving you or benefiting you.We talk about the rise of individual brands being used to grow a platform. It's something I've been thinking a lot about, watching Morning Brew and Fastly, and some of these other companies do it. It's just interesting whether you're marketing as a company or an individual. It's just a good conversation. We also talk about audience, and just how that plays into your career.He recently made the switch from a full-time role, to doing more audience-based business stuff. He was just in the middle of that journey. So, it's a fun place and time to catch up in the conversation.Nick, welcome to the show.[00:01:33] Nick:Hey, thanks for having me, Nathan.[00:01:35] Nathan:I want to start on this article you have, that I like a lot, called, “To tweet, or not to tweet,” That got you ahead. I also happened to go to the Shakespeare festival recently, and watched them do “The Complete Works of Shakespeare, Abridged.”So, you know, I could probably pull off a good, to[00:01:50] Nick:Nice.[00:01:51] Nathan:Be or not to be speech right now. It's in my head because I think about all the wonderful things that Twitter and an audience beyond that does for me. Then also the negative sides of it. So maybe we dive into that, but I'd also love to hear what sparked you diving in and building an audience.[00:02:11] Nick:Yeah, I'm so conflicted on Twitter, and audience building in general. Like anything, I imagine there's a fair number of people who you talked to, who are in the writing community, who feel that way. On the one hand, Twitter does so many things for me. Especially over the past couple of years.As we've been in lockdown, lives have moved online. I have met and made friends with so many amazing people through Twitter that I wouldn't have met otherwise. Same with the newsletter, but Twitter is a little bit easier to build those relationships.Twitter has definitely helped grow my bank account. So, there are clearly things that being online and participating in the online world really does for you that are valuable.I think, building an audience is super valuable.When I think about the future of work, and what will be automated and what won't be, I really think that human beings, our greatest strength that is the hardest to copy is our ability to influence other people. This really comes from some of the thinking of author Joseph Heinrich, who looked at what is the secret of human success.It's cultural learning. It's our ability to essentially watch what other people do, and mimic them. We're really good at detecting what is a real human and what's not, and who's someone prestigious that we should learn from, and who isn't.I think that audience building is super valuable. So, even though I don't love the activity of building an audience, I have gotten a lot of value out of it, and I see the value in it. So, I very much come from a conflicted spot in this. I'm very impressed by people like Julian, and Sahil, and Dickie Bush, who have grown amazing audiences.Some days I aspire to 10X my audience, and some days I'm just like, please let me be a monk and live in seclusion.[00:04:20] Nathan:Well? Okay. So I had a Twitter thread last week that I did It was on company culture for remote teams, and I've had some that like take off and do well before, but this was like 1300 retweets, like almost a million impressions, a level of taking off. And on one hand I was like, this is amazing.And the other, I like checked the notifications and the replies so many times, and it was fascinating watching it go from like my circle to the next circle, out to the next circle out. And like, we're still in like positive replies, happy. Oh, build on it, refine it. And then like the one circle past that, which it took about, let's say 12 to 18 hours to get to[00:05:06] Nick:Yeah[00:05:06] Nathan:And that was the. This guy's an idiot. I'd never want to work at that company. you know, like all like the, the haters and the non from there, and then it like dies out and this is weird arc of his, we should graph it, but it just made me think of, is this something that I want to do and want, had I added thousands of Twitter followers?I think I could recreate it. Like maybe one in five attempts would like hit that big. Who knows. but I wrestle with the exact question of like, do I want this?[00:05:36] Nick:You and you're, you're just, you're like jacked up on dopamine. You're like, you're, you're sort of you're you, you, you start just imagining all the good things that will come from this. I should be doing this all the time. Like, you know, I, I mean, I think it's, it's sort of pre progressive problems, right?Like, like there's, there's the problem of like having a smaller audience and like putting something out into the ether and then, this, this kind of, getting no response, right. That, that, that's the first thing that, that actually like most people kind of deal with. Right. And, and, and that's, that's a weird thing because it's like, it's like, you're, you're then judging the quality of your ideas based on the ability of, based on basically your, your audience's response and, and realizing like, you're not actually talking to your audience, you're talking to.Subsection that Twitter has decided that you can talk to at that specific point in time. And so, and then you're basically judging your own ideas based off that. And if, if your idea is like, I think, I think when you hit a certain bar of audience, like you can, you can share ideas that are, pretty complex and nuanced and like you'll, you'll find some, some sort of interest for it and it has a potential to take off, but like there there's stuff where if it's kind of interesting and nuanced there, isn't really kind of a built in audience for it.And people don't really have the time to like always dig in and kind of engage and try to like, find what's at the kernel of, it's why I like newsletters a lot more than I like tweeting. But, but, but, but I think, I think what you're, you know, then there's, there's, there's the problem where once you get big enough, like you're now being your ideas are being put in front of a bunch of people who like you didn't intend them for.And those people for some reason have decided to invite into their lives, like conflict with strangers on the internet, because[00:07:19] Nathan:That's like a primary goal,[00:07:21] Nick:Right, right. It's like, it's it. It's what gives them a great day. Right. And, and, and so, so yeah, it's, it's such a weird thing. And so I, like, I mean, I, I think about this with like, I equate Twitter, often to, to kind of, like refined sugar, right.With refined sugar, right. It's it's, it's what we call supernormal stimuli. Right. It, it, it, or super, super normal stimulus. and, and what that is, is basically something that like replaces some natural, like evolutionary desire you have with something kind of artificial that just sends your brain on like overdrive seeking that thing, seeking that thing over and over.And, and that is. That's what Twitter is. It's, it's, it's refined status instead of refined sugar. And that refined status is like, it just, it takes this thing that you normally do, which is like seek, prestige from your, your tribal group, which was a really good thing to do to make sure that you, you know, ate a good meal.And it, and it puts that into, into this crazy overdrive and it like, it centers your brain around it, and it's, it's such a, it's a really powerful thing. And so I, you know, again, right, it's like, there's all these great gifts that come from Twitter and then there's, then there are all these drawbacks and it's, it's almost like perfect equilibrium of, should you do it or should you not?And I don't begrudge anyone either way for their decision.[00:08:46] Nathan:What I always wonder is if I could only have the benefits, like, is there a way let's say that you don't doom scroll Twitter with the latest news and whatever's going wrong, or whatever, latest Twitter fight there is. Maybe you do in a separate app publish these like smart tweets or brilliant threads that are going to get all this attention.And you do one of those every day, but then like you jump in an hour later and respond to a bunch of comments and then like the next day you do it again for 30 minutes and then like, that's it. And you just bat, like, there is this world where you could own Twitter rather than Twitter owning you, but like, are you capable of it?Do you have the self-discipline to pull that off?[00:09:33] Nick:Totally. And, and I, and I think, I think like, you know, I I've talked, I think Julian about this and I think he uses like tweet deck for it. And I think, I think there are ways you can do it. Right. I like for awhile, I was good at like, I would tweet in the morning and then I would like uninstalled the app off my phone.So I wouldn't look at it. and like, there are things that you can do. it's just, it's just really hard because I think to some degree what Twitter, rewards, especially when, when you're on the audience building path. Right. I think when you're like, tens of thousand or hundreds of thousands of followers, you, you actually have a lot more leeway to do what you want.Because, because like, you're just, it's likely that your tweets will work, but like when you're building your ions, there's, there's something that like, it's sort of like, there's a Turing test that's happening, right. People are sort of looking, are you an engaged human being? Cause I I've I've I knew some people who sort of, they, they schedule and preplan all their tweets and like, and to some degree they, they just, they don't hit, they don't work because it doesn't feel real time.They're responding in real time. So like[00:10:35] Nathan:Out of pace. You're out of touch with what's happening with.[00:10:38] Nick:Exactly And so, and so it's, it's sort of, Twitter's kind of like looking for these weird signs of life. So I think it's, I think it's doable. There, there must be some way to do this, but, it's tough. I think the, the other, the other thing that Twitter did to me, that I, disliked is, it makes me feel like my relationships are very transactional because you have these likes retweets, and like these, these, Very clear, like signals of engagement.You, you start to like, or I start to like, to like keep score. Right. And, and I, and I don't, I like, I don't do that anywhere else in life. I think a good, like obviously good relationships tend to start out transactional and then like, they, you kind of forget what the transactions are and like that, that's what creates a close friendship where like, look like you may have paid from the last time I paid for you this time.It doesn't really matter anymore because we transacted so many times, but, but Twitter, for some reason, the score always feels out there. And, and so that was, that's really been like a little bit of a red flag to me. And I, I I try to keep a generous mindset and a generous spirit on Twitter, but I find it harder than in real life.[00:11:52] Nathan:That makes sense to me. So maybe taking a step back, and maybe we'll wrestle with some of these, like to grow an audience or not to grow an audience questions[00:12:00] Nick:Sure[00:12:02] Nathan:What was the thing that, sparked for you? I'm like, I'm going to go start a sub stack. I'm going to actively work to build an audience.[00:12:10] Nick:Yeah, I, so I was writing on, on medium starting in like 2013, maybe. Um and and really got a lot out of it. I, I started my career out as a, as a screenwriter, so I was planning to go into the TV industry and like, and, and for, you know, for, for many reasons, found that to be, a path where like, you didn't really control your destiny.I saw I met lots of, you know, mid thirties, you know, production assistants who were slightly bitter. And then, so I just kind of realized like, this, this wasn't exactly a good path, for me. And so, but I, I wanted to kind of keep that like, that creativity, that like interaction with an audience, I think, you know, it, it was.And found that in writing. And so And so started publishing on medium. Um we was a great experience in terms of how quick it was to publish, but like the distribution of publishing a medium sucks, right? Like, you're you you, you publish ones and then like you spam all your friends and like, you're, you're just, you're working super hard to like push this thing and promote it.And I was like, there's gotta be some way that's a little bit easier. and so I actually ended up in, I think I took, I took Tiago Forte is building a second brain course that kind of like, magically grandfathered me in somehow to like David Pearl's first um uh cohort or Write of Passage, which was awesome And like, I would say, like, I took a lot out of that, but like the biggest thing was, was like start a newsletter. and so basically I started out, I think I started out with a review even. but but anyway like started publishing. Opted in when I knew onto the email list, which I'm sure they, they may or may not appreciate it, but this is before there were tons of sales tax out.And so I felt like it wasn't, it wasn't that crazy. I probably wouldn't have done that in like 20, 20, but, but w really wanted like a way to like, continually kind of interact with my audience without having to worry about like, you know, just, just kind of constantly doing the heavy promotion work.Um now that's because I now you know posts just as a part of medium but but at least there's those sort of a built in audience that kind of grows over time that you kind of keep with you. and, and so. doing that, it was kind of it's kind of a mix of for work and for life.I, I was, at the time, the managing partner of a, of a, uh immersive education program called Tradecraft. And like we, we would help people make sort of complex career transitions into the startup world. And and so a lot of what I was writing was kind of about that. It was about careers. but it also tied in with, with kind of deep interests.It was sort of why I took the role in the first place. and, and what I found when I, when I moved from Tradecraft over to Guild was like that kind of nicely traveled with me. and, and I think there's, there's something, something really nice about a newsletter, being a kind of an appendage to your career, where, like it expands your professional identity to a certain degree.You, you can become a little bit more than just your job, especially working for, like, like a single individual company, especially if you're, if, if the company is larger you, have to deal with a lot of like coordination challenges. there there's a lot of bureaucracy that happens at a company And one of the nice things about having a newsletter is you are in charge of it. It's like you're the CEO of it. the product ships, when you choose to ship it and you have complete editorial say over it, and the distribution that you put into it is what you get out of it. And and there's something really nice about that.It helped me kind of identify as a person who who, ships a lot, even when, sometimes, you know, you know, you you have to work on something at at work that takes a long time.[00:16:12] Nathan:Have you found a dress core even a strong correlation between the effort that you put in to your newsletter and your audience growth and the results that you get out, or does it feel like a more tenuous connection?[00:16:24] Nick:I think, I think there is a pretty good, like w w when I think a post is going to really hit it usually does and so I would say like, like when I put effort into, into writing something really good, I think usually it meets it meets or exceeds my expectations. And when, and when I feel like something is, I'm kind of honing in on, on a, on a post, like usually I get that too.So I think what, what can also happen. You know, sometimes you post something to hacker news and it turns out it's somehow on the front page and like that your audience growth spikes, or like you get featured in someone else's newsletter and your audience grows spikes. And like, there there's a lot of activities that like, you know, I'm not doing directly to promote it, but but it just sort of, um you know, happens in a nice way.And so that's happened, you know, more than a few times and like, that's a pretty neat thing, but like, I think to some degree that comes from just trying a lot of different things and then like, there's sort of like a, a second order effect of some of those things really, you know, hitting it off.[00:17:28] Nathan:Yeah, I think that's that's right. I knew in the early days of starting my newsletter, I felt a strong correlation between what I was working on and like the effort that I put in and the results that I got out, been been interested well at the time I do like a really epic blog post where I put of effort, you know, we're kind of the, for, you know, off and on for weeks or months and like really a hundred and get friends to read it, all of that.Those pretty much always do really well. But what I'm surprised by is sometimes the throwaway posts really, throwing it. Like, it's a simple idea that you flushed out into a post and you were. Hey, it's Tuesday. I got to get something out. Like it's sort of in that[00:18:09] Nick:Totally[00:18:09] Nathan:Sometimes those really hit.Sometimes they actually resonate. Have you had some of those that were like easy easy ones ones that hit?[00:18:18] Nick:So the, publishing cadence is I do, I do two, two posts a month and one a and it used to be, it used to be one post a month. And then I basically separated out into two. Cause I realized like it was too much to kind of condense into, into one post. And like, I wasn't getting the. The, as many eyeballs on like the second half, so decide to pull them apart.One is kind of one big essay. And the second is a, is is of like a, a But I think of it as like, as like I do pretty deep them. So it's actually of like a, here's what this is about. And a little bit more like, here's what this made me think about.And And, the, the essay is, I always spend a good amount of time on them. or at least this year I've spent a good amount time[00:19:05] Nathan:On all of them two hours, 20 hours, 200 hours?[00:19:11] Nick:2020 is probably probably closest. a really slow writer. And so, and so, like, I, I do, I mean, I like like write and like re-edit the first paragraph, 20 onto the next And likeI don't either Yeah The the the the the, the, top of the like, it's like a then like the last paragraph gets like one glance and I'm like, God, get this thing from Um don't and I I that is the wrong thing to do, yet, somehow I do that anyway. but, but, so, so those, those posts, they tend to get, of. You know, time and care. and then what'll happen is sometimes the, the ones that are like the link roundups, like will, will be very spiky.And I I'll spend, you know, that's, that's a little bit more like a three hour thing, um or four hours or something like that. and yeah, so, and then, and then I had, I had a, a, something that I was doing when I was interviewing folks, I call it the key ring where it was like a pretty structured interview that I would do where I asked the same questions over and over again.That was, that was fun. It, it, it started taking a long time to like do the back and forth. And so I'm putting that on pause for the moment. I may pick it back up again. those are fun just cause you can, you can feature someone that, that you like and get a chance to just and hang out It's kinda like[00:20:40] Nathan:Yeah. Those are always interesting to me. Cause I, I think about that on this podcast of asking the same questions, which I know New, I riff on the questions too or elementBut if you did, in theory, if you're like, did you grow from a hundred subscribers to a thousand subscribers in your newsletter?And you asked that to every single person, then you could compile that over 40 episodes or 40 newsletters or whatever. like, Hey, here's a guide on how to do it. And like, I pulled it from a whole bunch of sources. So that part of like standardized questions intrigues me. don't love it the live, know, version of a or newsletter where it's like, okay, it's too formulaic.People have done super well with us formulaic, like, John Lee Dumas, who did the Podcast entrepreneur on fire. Like he went all out. He was like, this will be 20 minute episodes, we're going to of release one a day, seven days a week and like works for him. I have no desire to do that, you[00:21:36] Nick:Totally[00:21:38] Nathan:Yeah, I don't know. you think about the repurposing side of content like that, or is it more just about the, the upfront.[00:21:45] Nick:I'm at repurposing and, and I, it's something that I, have like a psychological hangup about it. Like I always kind of feel like I need to be just like moving on to the next thing. The next thing, like I've, I've tried like going back and like, be like, oh, I should mind this thing for some, some tweets.And it always feels weird to do. And like, I want to write my Roundup, but I think, I think what I've just recognized as. Another reason why I write the newsletter is like, I want an excuse to have interesting new thoughts each month. I want essentially a performance, right. Where like, we're like, there is a moment where like, if I, if I hadn't been like reading and thinking each month, like, there is a moment that it will, that I will be embarrassed if I don't do that.And like that, that's the way I think about the newsletter. And so, and so repurposing content would be something it's almost like an admission of defeat. which, which I don't is is other people should think but that's an area of my head. And so, and so I think it just like, I need to be onto doing the next thing.There's a bunch of stuff where like, I would love to, I love ways to use the archives, my newsletter better. I think actually like stuff like this is a fun way to do it. Like through a articles and I was like, oh, there's there's stuff I can, I can reference from those. Um but it's it's, it's tough.[00:23:05] Nathan:That makes sense. Okay. So let's talk cadence for a second because this is one of the most popular, common, I don't know, questions that I get from people starting newsletters. Is there, like it should be daily right now, weekly, monthly, twice a month. Can I just do quarterly? Can I grow an audience for the quarterly newsletter?You've settled on twice a month? What was the thought that went into that? And, and what's your present cons on, on that particular.[00:23:33] Nick:I think. I mean, one of the weird things, which I'm like, I don't think it's just me, but like, like, it was like, when you, when you release a newsletter issue, like you naturally lose subscribers, but like, like, like people are reminded that like, they're like, know you have yeah You have keys to their inbox and they're like, like, why why did I let this And so and so like and so ideally like that, you know what I mean, then that's gonna have a rude awakening for, I think, I think people who are like, oh, this, this thing just goes on autopilot. but, but you need something that like is going to generate more new subscribers than it will lose subscribers because I'm a slow writer, like my, my ability to write something that I think is going to generate new subscribers is like twice a month. And like, and, and, if, and if I was, you know, Paki and Mario there, I don't know how fast they are, but like they are, they're dedicated.They can crank out some ungodly number of words, you know, once a week, twice a week, which is super impressive. And I think if I was them, I would do that. And like, you know, I, I love still like Seth Godin writes, like, you know, I feel like he writes every day. And I think so I think if you're, if you're capable of doing that, like, and, and, and doesn't lose subscribers, then like do it and set an appointment.And I think all those things are really nice, but for me, it's like, how do I make sure that like, one it's kinda, it's kinda manageable with a, with like a full-time job, which is the way I've been doing it for a long time. Right. and need to, I think, um you know, there, there are, there are weirdnesses of having a newsletter, any full-time job at the same time.And one of those is like, You are publishing, like if your hobby was sea kayaking, right? Like, like you could do that with no one knowing that you were doing it. Right. And like, and, and there's, there's nothing weird about that. Or like running a marathon or something like that. like it's clearly the thing you're doing on the side, writing a newsletter is like, it's it's knowledge work that is like akin to, to, type of work that you might do in an office Right Coding[00:25:41] Nathan:Marketing copywriting, whatever your your day job[00:25:44] Nick:A hundred percent. And like, and like, if you're putting that out on LinkedIn, like, you know, your managers managers are seeing it and like, and so there's, there's just like, like doing that every day would be, a weird would feel weird to me even if, even if no one else felt weird about and so, and so I feel like twice a month it feels, feels good to me.It's also, it also just like keeps me excited to keep, to keep at it versus making feel like it's like a daily or weekly chore. And I have like a day off, I have a week off in between so that I can like, you know, spend the weekend, not writing if I want to, which is nice.[00:26:23] Nathan:Yeah. I like the idea of timing it to your, like your cadence as a writer. What advice would you have to someone who's in that position of, building audience on the side there, maybe they're doing it secretly at first where they're like awkward about it's this may maybe self promotional, but, but at some point, if you get to any scale right. will either you'll tell people at work about it or they'll find out about it in some way, hopefully be supportive, but I don't know. What advice do you give to someone who's in that[00:26:54] Nick:First, acknowledge that there is weirdness to it. Like there, are, like there are inherent trade-offs to everything and like, and like there is there's weirdness and if, and if you're your, like the, the company I've been working for Guild, like they, like everyone has been more than supportive at it, but, of the, the work and like, but I still have a weird complex about it.You know, I think part of the reason I ended up getting the job was because of, because of the newsletter, some of the stuff I publish of like, you know, shaped our marketing strategy. So there were things where like, I've tried to do things in my writing where my employer benefits from them.Like, you know, whenever I talk about work a lot and whenever I talk about hiring, I mentioned Guild's hiring, Like there, there are, there are things that I do to just try to like, make sure that it still feels worth the company's Weill. And also, like, I think, I think I try to bring in ID.Like I try to have ideas that are useful to what I do at work. so I I wrote this, this piece on, platform branding, which was all about, companies that essentially used their employees to build audiences that, also benefit the companyAnd like, you know, we, ended up using that strategy at Guild which, which was, which was cool.And like that ended up being the strategy doc to some degree, around it, which was cool. And so so so, there's there, there's like ways that you can. think um you bring that in that that are, that valuable. And so I try to sort of look for those things. I, but I think, you know, acknowledged right.That there's, good writing is vulnerable and sometimes it's weird to be vulnerable in front of your colleagues. and, and like it's naturally an attention seeking activity. And if like, if like there's someone at work feels weird about you, like, will be, you know, something that they can talk about, the proverbial water cooler about like, you know, why, why you're not doing your job and you're, you're off writing these letters So so there's there there's weirdness, but like, I think if you can make, if you can allow your company to benefit from the audience you are growing, I think that tends to be a pretty good fit[00:29:12] Nathan:What that made me think of is basically it's going to accelerate or, magnify, whatever someone already thinks of you. So for example, if someone already thinks, like, I don't know, next kind of. he just doesn't contribute that much. Like is he even working half the time then if they publishing once a week, then they're like, see proof of what I already thought. if like the executive at the company is like, Nick is one of the best hires we've ever made. Oh. And look now he's like publishing and rhinos. Like he's a thought leader as well. Like whatever they think is just going to accelerate more. And so maybe it's looking what reputation you already have.[00:29:51] Nick:A hundred percent and it's like, it's like, I mean, the way I see it, and this is kind of what I wrote about in the platform, branding thing is like, I actually think that, having a bunch of employees who are, in a creator type role, um it's like underdeveloped marketing channel. Like you essentially, you have these people who have.Hey, like, I'm going to, going to take my scarcest asset my time give it to this company. and and and now I'm going to build relationships with, with all of these thousands of people who, who listen to these ideas and like, and like that sort of just gives positive energy to the company. So, so actually, like when you compare it, even to like a, a side project that you're coding nights and weekends, I actually think, I think companies should be really supportive of, of, of kind of audience building on the side because it really can benefit them but, but people naturally have a, there's there's a weird feeling about it. And so, and so you have to like, especially as a company, You know, like our, our CEO is, is, is really good at building her own audience on LinkedIn. And I think that gives everyone else some permission to like, you know write vulnerable and things like that.So I think, but I think it, it is, it is a really important thing to be able to have this kind of a group of people who are increasing the company's sort of surface area in Serendip.[00:31:23] Nathan:Yep. I like that. I've wondered about doing something like that for ConvertKit. We have a handful of people on the team who are very prolific creators, for the two myself and then, our creative director, Charlie, frankly, she has like followers on YouTube and a popular channel and all of that.There's a handful of other people who have podcasts and are, are active on Twitter. Our product managers are quite active when you talk to them about things related to ConvertKit, you know, they're like active with customers, but I haven't, or we haven't taken this approach like fast or on deck, or I'm trying to think who else does it, but, but these companies where they're like, okay, there's 15 of us and we're all going to.Become Twitter famous, you know, or start our thing and we'll all drive back. Is it a strategy that you think works well?[00:32:17] Nick:The, the best example of this actually think is, I think on-deck did it, did it really has done it really well on Twitter Um I think gong is actually probably my favorite example. Um especially from a B2B what they do is like is all of their salespeople are out there, like posting content on LinkedIn, but it's not like how great gong is.Almost has nothing to do with gum. It's like you know, an a I'm I'm I'm grinding today. Can't wait to get off for the weekend. It's like, it's like, it, it, it sort of, embodying kind of this, this, like this, the sales lifestyle. Right. And, and, and the, the engagement they get is, is crazy.Right. And like, and that, the thing is, if, so, so there's sort of like, there's kind of like, you can build lifestyle influencers among your employees Right But you can also. Like this idea of building up someone who is, who is a, I know this is kind of a gross word, but thought leader in the, in the, space you're, you're excited about.People kind of come to them, they build affinity with them. And I think you, you can build individuals as marketing channels where like starts out where like someone's reading your posts on LinkedIn. maybe that person hosts a, a kind of invite only webinar for, for the people who engage most of them on LinkedIn.So, so then you're building sort of deeper affinity towards that person. And, and as, as you go down the sales funnel um like marketing and sales, you actually transfer that affinity over to the company as, as like they get into the sale process. from kind of a B2B side, but like, I think you can do it also from a B to C.[00:33:49] Nathan:Do you think that a company like gone. Hired people are good at that and encouraged it, or do you think they like had the people that they hired and said like, okay everyone, this is now what we're doing. a playbook, here's best practices. Here's a slack channel where you can talk about what's working.What's not, but like we're this now. Get on board.[00:34:11] Nick:This is, would be a hundred percent pure speculation. What is, is someone at gong started doing this one of their salespeople and started crushing it. And they're, you know, director of marketing was smart enough to. Hey could be doing a lot like, and B, because it's their salespeople who do it, right.A natural incentive to do it. And so, you know, I would imagine they probably brought on a copywriter and said, Hey, if you need help, you know, crafting these posts, like you can do that It's just, it's such a, it's such a virtuous right? It's like, it's like, because of the affinity you build with these individuals it translates to the company.And like it just sends it a bat signal out to other people who are like that, who want to build audiences, that like the company will help you do that. And they will be supportive. And like, and again, if we imagine that like, they're like audience is this long-term career mode, it's just like, it's such a great gift.You can give to your employees for them to leave with like you know, like you leave ConvertKit and you have, you know, a hundred thousand subscribers or 10,000 it's like, or whatever. Right. It's, it's, it's as much of a gift as like the salary you're giving them. It's just, we don't think of it that way.Cause it's, it's a weird thing to think about getting. From your company[00:35:27] Nathan:Yeah. I mean, that's how we've handled it in that we're very in favor of side projects. We want everyone who wants to, like, we're not gonna force it on. But to have a way to be a, a creator on the, on the side and to have some actual reason to use ConvertKit as a customer. Because it's so different when you're the product and like clicking through the happy path to test something and you're like, Hey guys, it works.Then some customers like this is really frustrating. and so that, like, it's a very different, different, I think that it's just interesting. You're absolutely right about people with that. Like, Matt Reglan, who's been on this show before he was at ConvertKit for years. joined when we were like 20,000 a month in revenues like that. when he eventually moved on to his nets, next thing, you know, he built an, a YouTube audience to like 10,000 subscribers at that point. And that was a whole thing that he'd done a lot with skills he learned at ConvertKit a lot with, you know, our creative director, Charlie, like promoting him and just, all right. But like, it still happens even we've got 70 people on the team and we're talking like six are active in this way. I just wonder how much to encourage it versus how much to just say like, Hey, this is an option if you want it, but like you don't push it any more than that[00:36:51] Nick:I mean, I think one of the interesting things, when you think about like the creator economy is like, I think the creator economy can support a lot of people, but the the challenge is like when you're deciding, should I follow this person? there aren't very good moats in the creator economy. And so and so one of the.Few moats you can have is like companies that you've worked for giving you this brand halo. Right And so, and, and, brand from your company sort of, it says this person might be a little more worth following because someone chose them now, does that true You know, don't think so, but like, it at least sends this signal.And so I think, one, like your brand can do that for, for, for your employees, but also like I think there's a. I think just showing that the company will pour fuel on whatever fire you're starting, I think is like, it's, it's one of the best like employee value props. I think a company can have, It's like, it's like, look the life you want to have. Like, we, want to get you there. like, and like, and I think the kind of people who would come work for ConvertKit it should be that they want to do something in the creator space, because you're serving creators that makes a ton That makes a ton of of sense[00:38:10] Nathan:Yeah. And we've definitely had people that we've hired, who are already creators, and that's grown. So it, an interesting world in all the things that you could do to grow. Like a company or growing audience. I'm not sure that that's the one would pick, but you, you see Morning Brew and, and gong in so many of others doing it and it seems to work, know? So[00:38:33] Nick:Yeah Like, I think it works for like, like select companies in select Right. And like, and there's, and there's probably a channel that works under and like the. way you do it for, you know, for Guild where, like we, you know, we really target, um you know, companies with huge employee populations at the very level Like like we wouldn't do that on, on Twitter. Right. Just doesn't make any sense, but like, would we do it on LinkedIn where like, where, you know, C-suite spends an increasing amount of time and we can directly with those individuals and maybe influence that the five to 10 people that, that matter at those companies with like, you know, one post a week.Totally. so, so it just, it kind of depends on like, um I think companies can, can kind of do it at different levels.[00:39:21] Nathan:So that's interesting of the LinkedIn approach, which I think a lot of creators are either all in, on LinkedIn and loving You know, people have built massive lists over there, or they're like, what's that like, I'll hang out in the Instagram, YouTube, Twitters of the world, you know? but if you imagine that B2B world where let's say I'm, I'm working in sales, either as an executive, trying to get big deals done, or, you know, or as a team member, I have a meeting, we have a great conversation.We connect on LinkedIn, you know, we're now an official connection. And now, even though you're not going to buy my thing now, you're like seeing my content every. Week or every few weeks. And then it's like, oh yeah, you're going to buy that thing from Nathan, you know, whatever B2B tool, like starts to come up.And then when I reach out again and you're like, it's not like, oh yeah, it's that one sales rep that I wasted 20 minutes off on with, you know, six months ago. It's like, oh yeah. I feel like we're friends there. I've learned so much, even though it's just been one to many communication.[00:40:25] Nick:I mean, I think the really powerful thing it's like obviously a sales rep is incentivized to promote the product at company they work for So it's like it's product whether it's in a sales call or on LinkedIn like it will not it will not move the needle for any customer.Because it's sort of priced in that That's what they're expecting. But showing that you are an intellectually interesting person who has deep thoughts about the world, who is, who's a smart person. And then the customer making the connection, man, this smart person out of all the places where they could go work has chosen to work here.[00:41:04] Nathan:Right[00:41:05] Nick:Of something, right. There must be something kind of interesting and special there. And so they built of this affinity and comfort and excitement about you and like, and, and then getting on a sales call with you, you're at this just like this nice advantage, right? You're, you're, you're now slightly a celebrity to them.Right Like and, and there's something, you know, like when your, your email or even your company's email then pops up in their inbox, like it's just that much more likely to open that much more interesting. And sometimes it's, it's those, it's those little things on the margin that can make all the difference.And so I think, especially when you're talking like a, like really big enterprise sales, I actually think it's still, a kind of, underrated strategy.[00:41:48] Nathan:Yeah, sense. talk about a, more from the creator side. Cause that was, know, we went more on the platform company side of the which, you know, someone running a company, I am intrigued in that direction, but I'm curious on the, on the creative side, how do you think about that audience as being for your career and that thing that goes with you as you between roles and giving you a future opportunities and all.[00:42:14] Nick:I think it comes to like writing a newsletter.There's basically three reasons. You'd write a personal newsletter and earliest the way I think about it. Like it's either passion, like, you know, I love cooking and like, this is a way I can express that side of me It's it's profit. I want to actually just make some side income or make this into my full income Or it's General advancement.And maybe the relationship building kind of tithing relationship building probably ties into that. but, but in general, like the, I sort of see one things being being like the reason, like for me, at least for a long time, it's probably been advancement. but, certainly the other two are mixed.Like I'm, you know I'm curious about, you know, turning on the profit spigot out of it And like, it certainly like I wouldn't keep doing it if it didn't hit the passion bucket. and so, and so I think that, that, you have to sort of figure out which of those you're doing. I think, I think like if, if what you want to do, I think most people actually are doing it because they do want new opportunities and relationships.I think actually advancement to me is it's actually, the best reason to do it. Um uh over the other two. And, in that world, like, you kind of want to imagine like, okay, Who is, what kind of job do I want, who is the person that I want to be at some point down the road? Who's the gatekeeper that stands in the way of that.Whether it's like, maybe it's I want to publish a book at some point, right. a publisher stands in the way of that. and so what, what gets this publisher excited? Well, either, maybe I'm writing a newsletter for book publishers and this is the industry standard, but like more likely it's like, it's like, Hey, I built this audience that is then really exciting to a publisher.So-so I or, you know, it's, I want to become a senior engineering manager. and so what's going to be exciting to the VP of engineering who is going to interview me. You know, it, it could be that I have an audience full of engineers, who who like are easy to hire, maybe it's that I just like think in a really deep level about this really complicated problem that is really important to them, but it's, it's sort of like, I think having that, kind of magic gatekeeper mind as as not the person you're necessarily writing for all the time, but the, thing you're trying to build up to, that can be a good north star in that direction.If you're doing this, advancement thing, I still don't think you should pick something that doesn't light you up because it's really, you know, it's really hard to keep doing this, week after week when you're grinding it out for some future version of yourself that you know, may may change.I, I think that, that that tends to be a pretty good path.[00:45:10] Nathan:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me and like networking connection and advancement side of things, I think is one of the best reasons to do. A lot of that. I remember like the first conference that I went to after having a blog and it being such a night and day difference. I wasn't even a speaker at this conference, any of that, but people were like wanting to come up and talk to me because of the articles that I've written you.Whereas like months earlier, you know, pre blog, you go to a conference and I was shy and introverted. Like I didn't talk to anybody. And so I was like, wow, because I published words on the internet. People will now do all the work. Like interesting people will come meet me instead of me having to like put out all the work.This is the best leverage ever on the same way, like podcasts and everything else Write being able to, everyone says the Podcast in there for the audience. It is right. You know, thousands of people will listen to this episode. I am more doing it because I get to meet people like you and Kimberly, who we just had on last week.And right. It's just about meeting people. that's so[00:46:09] Nick:It's like it's like you know, like I think with Podcast, it's crazy because you like appear in somebody's ears. Right. You're like, literally like you're right next to their head, you know And like and it's it's, just like, it's this, it's this wild, like intimate relationship, usually, like I'm listening, you know, on, on two X.So everyone sounds smarter than you than they would were listening to them on one X like it's, it's, it's I think publishing and creating content, especially in a world where like we just live more online where like more of our interactions are, are remote. I think it's, it's a, it's a pretty, it's still sort of an underrated hack, especially in, in your career, right?Like you can, you can do. You know, you, you become inter like instantly, someone who someone wants to take a meeting with and like it's those little, like, sort of marginal decisions, right To like chart the course of your career, right? Like, like, did, did this person meet with you or not? Were they predisposed to like you, before you came in and like, you don't actually know which article is going to hit to make them feel that way, or which Podcast is going to, you know, which Podcast you're going to meet, the person who, you know, might be an ex customer or investor or something like that.But like, there's just such a powerful, you know, with that[00:47:26] Nathan:I think one of my favorite examples a people using an interview show or, you know, interviews in general to break into an industry Harry Stebbings, who does 20 minute VC, because I don't know how old he was when he started it, but like 17, maybe I'm not[00:47:42] Nick:Totally[00:47:43] Nathan:nd he's like, I want to break into the world of venture capital and, you know, interviewing all the biggest names at first people were saying yes to him, probably because of his hustle, because he was young.They're just like, sure. I'll take a chance on this kid on, your 20 minute.And[00:47:59] Nick:Now love I love people who have like, a, a 10 step plan for their career. Maybe you just, you just wanted to create a podcast. It was sort of like,[00:48:11] Nathan:Right[00:48:12] Nick:Doing this for fun, but like, not a ton of people have, have a plan. Right. like, like most people are just sort of doing stuff, but like, if you like sit down and just kind of think about it for like, like 20 minutes and you're like, who might, I want to be like, who does that person like, like what would make me credible in that person's eyes?Like, like how could I, you know, do that thing now. So that in two or three years, like, like Harry's, I've been such a good example. Like, I, I think there, there are so many people who, who like, if they, they sat and gave that like 10 minutes and turn Twitter off, like you can just, like, you can do a lot of, you know, good, good strategy there.[00:48:52] Nathan:Well, I think can do it as a method to break into any business. So if we were like, know if you and I were 18 years old and we're like, wouldn't be in the music business or even right. You wanted to go into screenwriting. you with what you know now, and you and I were brainstorming how to get 18 year old you into like screenwriting, we would probably suggest starting a podcast and you interview all the screenings. In some format and it wouldn't result in work, but then you'd imagine we have this network and this work would come from the network and you're like, no direct connection, but then there's a ton of indirect connections that wouldn't have happened without it.[00:49:31] Nick:You know, it's kind of a similar thing. We talked we've dragged them at Twitter at the beginning. Right. Twitter does this service for people that gives them like a feeling of prestige. Right. And like, and, and what you're basically doing is like, it's like, you're giving an audience to people who don't have time to build one for themselves.And like, you know, most of the people who are listening to this podcast are people who are building audiences in, in some way shape or form, but like most people don't do that. Right And and so, and so you can find all sorts of people who are who are just like all the time, who like, would love to sort of rent someone else's audience to build themselves up.And so like, and so you can be then 18 and it's a total hack to be able to sort of bring on this screenwriter, this music industry, executive, this, you know, a VC. Right. And it's just, it's[00:50:23] Nathan:Right It made me realize another person on the ConvertKit team who does this really well is ISA Adney. Who's our storyteller. she used to teach all of our webinars and workshops and, and, is branched into working on like brand development sides as he writes a lot of and else, but her personal audience, let me take a step back.If you talk to her, she's like, know this person, or whoever at Disney or that kind of thing who worked on, you know, and just like the amount of people that she knows in the world of storytelling and film and everything else, you're like, how do you know all these people? like, oh, I interviewed them for my newsletter, you know?And you're just like, wait, what? And it's like, I was going to say cartoonists, but like illustrators from, from will like draw her a birthday card. can tell us just for her, you know? And you're like, how, and, and it just comes from this exact thing of like, oh, I just interviewed them on my newsletter, which is a fantastic newsletter, but it's not like they came on it because she's wildly famous.It's that[00:51:26] Nick:It's incredible. And I like there, there's a couple other people I've seen who have like, who, who sort of, they have their, their, their full-time job, but like, on the side, right? Like, Liz Bostonian, someone I've known for awhile and interviewed, and she, she wrote a book called no hard feelings about emotions at work.She's about to publish her second one and like the way she's just like, she's known by, by all of these people at all these different companies that like her company would be the perfect company to sell in, to sell into. you know, it's just, it's just there. There's. There's so many good things that can come a bit.I think one thing I'd advise to like, w going back to like this, how do you balance a, like a, like a newsletter and a full-time career is like don't work for any company that doesn't value it because because like you know, clearly there are places like Guild, like ConvertKit like there there's so many different companies where like you can go where like, they will appreciate what you're doing.And if you can, if you can, like, ideally, like, let's say you love to write about cooking, right. If you can find a company where like, that is like, like, especially like building an audience around cooking, like it's, you know, a dishware company or whatever it is, like finding that right place for not just you, but your publication, a really underrated thing, because it just makes everything so much smoother to find that right.Manager find that. Right. you know,[00:52:52] Nathan:Yeah. That makes sense. If it's an uphill battle, like find another, another place where that's actually a asset.[00:52:59] Nick:Someone will like it.[00:53:00] Nathan:Yeah, exactly. So maybe before we wrap up, let's talk about the growth side. Cause everyone's thinking about, okay, I have my newsletter and it has 100 subscribers or 500. How do I grow it to that next tier So I'm curious, what are some of the things that have worked for you on, adding 100 or 500 or a thousand subscribers at a time?[00:53:19] Nick:Twitter Twitter. You, you, you can use Twitter.[00:53:22] Nathan:Yeah[00:53:22] Nick:It's It's frought in many ways you can also use LinkedIn. I actually think LinkedIn is, an underrated place to do it. Like it's to me, it's not as stressful to write a LinkedIn post as it is to write. A tweet, it's a little stressful, cause it's like, it's like, definitely definitely to your company And it's a place where you're in professional domain, but especially if your newsletter is somewhat professional, then I think, I think LinkedIn can be a really good place for it. and a little bit less of a pressure-filled way to do it. I probably one of the underrated things now is like, you know, I look at how many discord servers I'm suddenly in, like in in you know, months and like, I think those are probably good places to like promote.I don't think it's, I don't think you can in communities, it's harder to just be promotional. You need to sort of have earned it by, by building relationships. And so, but I think like, you know, I'm, I'm in a writing group called foster, right? Where, where like where, you know that they help with editing and like, and like everyone's sort of publishes their stuff in there, but like that's a great place to like, to, to sort of build a following, especially sort of early on.Obviously you can do things like hit Reddit, hit hacker news, you know, Reddit, I think I've been banned from like, you know, 20 different subreddits for, you know a just posting a blog post, which seemed to me. But, um and then hacker news, right? You, you, you never know. And, and, you know, getting to the top means you're going to get barraged with terrible comments, but, I think ultimately though you kind of want something you can build, right.And this is, this is the, this is the challenge with Twitter, right? It's like, it's like, there is a weirdness about Twitter, but. Building an audience on Twitter Like it's a great top of funnel for a newsletter, and same way with LinkedIn. And so it's hard to totally steer away from those things. I think one thing I'd to try and toy with once I figure out the monetization piece, of my newsletter is I'd like to try paid ads.And there's this weird discomfort with it with it. if what you value is value is, having an audience and people to write to and you want to grow that audience, I actually think it doesn't need to be that literally every person you painstakingly gathered with your blood, sweat, and tears, right.It's it's I think there's, there's other stuff that you can try, but you obviously don't want to be throwing a lot of money down the drain on, building an audience[00:55:53] Nathan:YeahI've, I've done paid ads with good results of four. I have a local newsletter called from Boise, is just for the Boise area. And in the last month we actually went to a thousand subscribers and we doubled to a little over 2000 subscribers, almost entirely with ads. So like no ads to a thousand and, ads worked well, you know, and it helps to have the hyper-local targeting.So I was in the same boat of like, hadn't played with it before. And, you know, at, I think we paid between $2 and two 50 a subscriber,[00:56:25] Nick:Facebook.[00:56:26] Nathan:Yeah, Facebook and Instagram. So we'll play with it more. What are you thinking maybe we'll end on this question. What do you thinking for on the newsletter?What are you paid? Is it a A A book? What other things are coming up?[00:56:39] Nick:It took me a while to find something I was comfortable with on modernization paid, never, appealed that much to me. just because there, there are some people who I like I will pay for their ideas, but like, overwhelmed with Content. that like, usually when I'm paying for, for, for, for a newsletter, it's because I really liked the person, like their, their, just their style of analysis.I can't get anywhere else. but, but, but the competitive dynamics of newsletter sort of, to me, like they'll, they'll kind of always be someone who something close to what you do for free. And so, and so that, that always kinda, didn't appeal to me as much. Like I think of it as like, This audience, that you're kind of building affinity with over time and like, and can you, ideally sort of find, build something or find something that's going to be really valuable to them.So I actually, literally just this morning, teamed up with this, this company called palette, to, I swear, this, this, this time it was not planned. It just, it just happened nicely, to a team at this company called pallet in pallets, been sort job boards with a bunch of and I actually worked with them on this, this kind of beta product that they're working on, which is this idea of talent collectives. And so what we're doing is like, it's like basically job searching really sucks. Like you're filling out tons of applications. You are, waiting for a long time to hear back from companies.If you are highly desirable, you're getting a lot of recruiter spam and they're just like barraging you. so we're going to do, is, is put basically just an air table form where you can say, Hey, like, this is who I am. This is the kind of role I'm looking for. pallet has this, this, all these companies that they are so, so they're going to basically, send people and you can be anonymous if you want to all sorts of stuff, but they're to their partner companies and then and then they'll send you sort of the intro request, like, Hey, you know, do you want to, do you want to chat with ConvertKit right.And, and, and if you do right, we'll, we'll make the intro, but like, you don't have to worry about our recruiter reaching out to you because they've, they've said they won't do that. so yeah, I think it's cool. you know, if, if, if any of the folks listening to this are like, exploring new job opportunity.We'd love you to come check it out. I think it'll be really neat. I think it'll solve a challenge that a lot of people are facing. For me it felt really native. It felt like I didn't want to do a job board because I don't know these companies. I'm doing a newsletter about careers, and it felt really important that I'm sending people to the right place.I said, “Hey, if you sign up for this, and you take one call from a company, I'll do a 30 minute career coaching session with you.” Even though, I'll get paid some commission, if the person goes to one of these companies, I will really try to give them the best advice for them, because that's what I promised to readers.When you're thinking about monetization, it's like find something that feels native, and not weird to your audience. I think sometimes that can be a pure paid subscription, but you can be creative in different stuff.[00:59:51] Nathan:Yeah, I think that's good. Let's leave it there. I'm super excited to see what comes on the monetization side. It's probably the coolest thing about newsletters and audiences that you can monetize different ways.So, where should people go to follow you and follow your writing, and see more about what you're up to?[01:00:07] Nick:You can follow where I have a conflicted relationship, where there are days I will post a tweet, tweet threads, and the next day I'll feel very ashamed of it, but that's @Nick_deWilde. Then the better place to get my thoughts, I would say, is JungleGym.Substack.com.At some point I should probably switch that to ConvertKit, but yeah, that's another time. We'd love that, and thank you so much for having me. This has been so fun.[01:00:42] Nathan:Yeah, It's been a great conversation and, thanks for coming on, and we'll talk soon.[01:00:47] Nick:Awesome, Nathan.
About NickNick Heudecker leads market strategy and competitive intelligence at Cribl, the observability pipeline company. Prior to Cribl, Nick spent eight years as an industry analyst at Gartner, covering data and analytics. Before that, he led engineering and product teams at multiple startups, with a bias towards open source software and adoption, and served as a cryptologist in the US Navy. Join Corey and Nick as they discuss the differences between observability and monitoring, why organizations struggle to get value from observability data, why observability requires new data management approaches, how observability pipelines are creating opportunities for SRE and SecOps teams, the balance between budgets and insight, why goats are the world's best mammal, and more.Links: Cribl: https://cribl.io/ Cribl Community: https://cribl.io/community Twitter: https://twitter.com/nheudecker Try Cribl hosted solution: https://cribl.cloud TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Thinkst. This is going to take a minute to explain, so bear with me. I linked against an early version of their tool, canarytokens.org in the very early days of my newsletter, and what it does is relatively simple and straightforward. It winds up embedding credentials, files, that sort of thing in various parts of your environment, wherever you want to; it gives you fake AWS API credentials, for example. And the only thing that these things do is alert you whenever someone attempts to use those things. It's an awesome approach. I've used something similar for years. Check them out. But wait, there's more. They also have an enterprise option that you should be very much aware of canary.tools. You can take a look at this, but what it does is it provides an enterprise approach to drive these things throughout your entire environment. You can get a physical device that hangs out on your network and impersonates whatever you want to. When it gets Nmap scanned, or someone attempts to log into it, or access files on it, you get instant alerts. It's awesome. If you don't do something like this, you're likely to find out that you've gotten breached, the hard way. Take a look at this. It's one of those few things that I look at and say, “Wow, that is an amazing idea. I love it.” That's canarytokens.org and canary.tools. The first one is free. The second one is enterprise-y. Take a look. I'm a big fan of this. More from them in the coming weeks.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Jellyfish. So, you're sitting in front of your office chair, bleary eyed, parked in front of a powerpoint and—oh my sweet feathery Jesus its the night before the board meeting, because of course it is! As you slot that crappy screenshot of traffic light colored excel tables into your deck, or sift through endless spreadsheets looking for just the right data set, have you ever wondered, why is it that sales and marketing get all this shiny, awesome analytics and inside tools? Whereas, engineering basically gets left with the dregs. Well, the founders of Jellyfish certainly did. That's why they created the Jellyfish Engineering Management Platform, but don't you dare call it JEMP! Designed to make it simple to analyze your engineering organization, Jellyfish ingests signals from your tech stack. Including JIRA, Git, and collaborative tools. Yes, depressing to think of those things as your tech stack but this is 2021. They use that to create a model that accurately reflects just how the breakdown of engineering work aligns with your wider business objectives. In other words, it translates from code into spreadsheet. When you have to explain what you're doing from an engineering perspective to people whose primary IDE is Microsoft Powerpoint, consider Jellyfish. Thats Jellyfish.co and tell them Corey sent you! Watch for the wince, thats my favorite part.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. This promoted episode is a bit fun because I'm joined by someone that I have a fair bit in common with. Sure, I moonlight sometimes as an analyst because I don't really seem to know what that means, and he spent significant amounts of time as a VP analyst at Gartner. But more importantly than that, a lot of the reason that I am the way that I am is that I spent almost a decade growing up in Maine, and in Maine, there's not a lot to do other than sit inside for the nine months of winter every year and develop personality problems.You've already seen what that looks like with me. Please welcome Nick Heudecker, who presumably will disprove that, but maybe not. He is currently a senior director of market strategy and competitive intelligence at Cribl. Nick, thanks for joining me.Nick: Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.Corey: So, let's start at the very beginning. I like playing with people's titles, and you certainly have a lofty one. ‘competitive intelligence' feels an awful lot like jeopardy. What am I missing?Nick: Well, I'm basically an internal analyst at the company. So, I spend a lot of time looking at the broader market, seeing what trends are happening out there; looking at what kind of thought leadership content that I can create to help people discover Cribl, get interested in the products and services that we offer. So, I'm mostly—you mentioned my time in Maine. I was a cryptologist in the Navy and I spent almost all of my time focused on what the bad guys do. And in this job, I focus on what our potential competitors do in the market. So, I'm very externally focused. Does that help? Does that explain it?Corey: No, it absolutely does. I mean, you folks have been sponsoring our nonsense for which we thank you, but the biggest problem that I have with telling the story of Cribl was that originally—initially it was, from my perspective, “What is this hokey nonsense?” And then I learned and got an answer and then finish the sentence with, “And where can I buy it?” Because it seems that the big competitive threat that you have is something crappy that some rando sysadmin has cobbled together. And I say that as the rando sysadmin, who has cobbled a lot of things like that together. And it's awful. I wasn't aware you folks had direct competitors.Nick: Today we don't. There's a couple that it might be emerging a little bit, but in general, no, it's mostly us, and that's what I analyze every day. Are there other emerging companies in the space? Are there open-source projects? But you're right, most of the things that we compete against are DIY today. Absolutely.Corey: In your previous role, which you were at for a very long time in tech terms—which in a lot of other cases is, “Okay, that doesn't seem that long,” but seven and a half years is a respectable stint at a company. And you were at Gartner doing a number of analyst-like activities. Let's start at the beginning because I assure you, I'm asking this purely for the audience and not because I don't know the answer myself, but what exactly is the purpose of an analyst firm, of which Gartner is the most broadly known and, follow up, why do companies care what Gartner thinks?Nick: Yeah. It's a good question, one that I answer a lot. So, what is the purpose of an analyst firm? The purpose of an analyst firm is to get impartial information about something, whether that is supply chain technology, big data tech, human resource management technologies. And it's often difficult if you're an end-user and you're interested in say, acquiring a new piece of technology, what really works well, what doesn't.And so the analyst firm because in the course of a given year, I would talk to nearly a thousand companies and both end-users and vendors as well as investors about what they're doing, what challenges they're having, and I would distill that down into 30-minute conversations with everyone else. And so we provided impartial information in aggregate to people who just wanted to help. And that's the purpose of an analyst firm. Your second question, why do people care? Well, I didn't get paid by vendors.I got paid by the company that I worked for, and so I got to be Tron; I fought for the users. And because I talk to so many different companies in different geographies, in different industries, and I share that information with my colleagues, they shared with me, we had a very robust understanding of what's actually happening in any technology market. And that's uncommon kind of insight to really have in any kind of industry. So, that's the purpose and that's why people care.Corey: It's easy from the engineering perspective that I used to inhabit to make fun of it. It's oh, it's purely justification when you're making a big decision, so if it goes sideways—because find me a technology project that doesn't eventually go sideways—I want to be able to make sure that I'm not the one that catches heat for it because Gartner said it was good. They have an amazing credibility story going on there, and I used to have that very dismissive perspective. But the more I started talking to folks who are Gartner customers themselves and some of the analyst-style things that I do with a variety of different companies, it's turned into, “No, no. They're after insight.”Because it turns out, from my perspective at least, the more that you are focused on building a product that solves a problem, you sort of lose touch with the broader market because the only people you're really talking to are either in your space or have already acknowledged and been right there and become your customer and have been jaded to see things from your point of view. Getting a more objective viewpoint from an impartial third party does have value.Nick: Absolutely. And I want you to succeed, I want you to be successful, I want to carry on a relationship with all the clients that I would speak with, and so one of the fun things I would always ask is, “Why are you asking me this question now?” Sometimes it would come in, they'd be very innocuous;, “Compare these databases,” or, “Compare these cloud services.” “Well, why are you asking?” And that's when you get to, kind of like, the psychology of it.“Oh, we just hired a new CIO and he or she hates vendor X, so we have to get rid of it.” “Well, all right. Let's figure out how we solve this problem for you.” And so it wasn't always just technology comparisons. Technology is easy, you write a check and you hope for the best.But when you're dealing with large teams and maybe a globally distributed company, it really comes down to culture, and personality, and all the harder factors. And so it was always—those were always the most fun and certainly the most challenging conversations to have.Corey: One challenge that I find in this space is—in my narrow niche of the world where I focus on AWS bills, where things are extraordinarily yes or no, black or white, binary choices—that I talked to companies, like during the pandemic, and they were super happy that, “Oh, yeah. Our infrastructure has auto-scaling and it works super well.” And I look at the bill and the spend graph over time is so flat you could basically play a game of pool on top of it. And I don't believe that I'm talking to people who are lying to me. I truly don't believe that people make that decision, but what they believe versus what is evidenced in reality are not necessarily congruent. How do you disambiguate from the stories that people want to tell about themselves? And what they're actually doing?Nick: You have to unpack it. I think you have to ask a series of questions to figure out what their motivation is. Who else is on the call, as well? I would sometimes drop into a phone call and there would be a dozen people on the line. Those inquiry calls would go the worst because everyone wants to stake a claim, everyone wants to be heard, no one's going to be honest with you or with anyone else on the call.So, you typically need to have a pretty personal conversation about what does this person want to accomplish, what does the company want to accomplish, and what are the factors that are pushing against what those things are? It's like a novel, right? You have a character, the character wants to achieve something, and there are multiple obstacles in that person's way. And so by act five, ideally everything wraps up and it's perfect. And so my job is to get the character out of the tree that is on fire and onto the beach where the person can relax.So, you have to unpack a lot of different questions and answers to figure out, well, are they telling me what their boss wants to hear or are they really looking for help? Sometimes you're successful, sometimes you're not. Not everyone does want to be open and honest. In other cases, you would have a team show up to a call with maybe a junior engineer and they really just want you to tell them that the junior engineer's architecture is not a good idea. And so you do a lot of couples therapy as well. I don't know if this is really answering the question for you, but there are no easy answers. And people are defensive, they have biases, companies overall are risk-averse. I think you know this.Corey: Oh, yeah.Nick: And so it can be difficult to get to the bottom of what their real motivation is.Corey: My approach has always been that if you want serious data, you go talk to Gartner. If you want [anec-data 00:09:48] and some understanding, well, maybe we can have that conversation, but they're empowering different decisions at different levels, and that's fine. To be clear, I do not consider Gartner to be a competitor to what I do in any respect. It turns out that I am not very good at drawing charts in varying shades of blue and positioning things just so with repeatable methodology, and they're not particularly good at having cartoon animals as their mascot that they put into ridiculous situations. We each have our portion of the universe, and that's working out reasonably well.Nick: Well, and there's also something to unpack there as well because I would say that people look at Gartner and they think they have a lot of data. To a certain degree they do, but a lot of it is not quantifiable data. If you look at a firm like IDC, they specialize in—like, they are a data house; that is what they do. And so their view of the world and how they advise their clients is different. So, even within analyst firms, there is differentiation in what approach they take, how consultative they might be with their clients, one versus another. So, there certainly are differences that you could find the more exposure you get into the industry.Corey: For a while, I've been making a recurring joke that Route 53—Amazon's managed DNS service—is in fact a database. And then at some point, I saw a post on Reddit where someone said, “Yeah, I see the joke and it's great, but why should I actually not do this?” At which point I had to jump in and say, “Okay, look. Jokes are all well and good, but as soon as people start taking me seriously, it's very much time to come clean.” Because I think that's the only ethical and responsible thing to do in this ecosystem.Similarly, there was another great joke once upon a time. It was an April Fool's Day prank, and Google put out a paper about this thing they called MapReduce. Hilarious prank that Yahoo fell for hook, line, and sinker, and wound up building Hadoop out of it and we're still paying the price for that, years later. You have a bit of a reputation from your time at Gartner as being—and I quote—“The man who killed Hadoop.” What happened there? What's the story? And I appreciate your finally making clear to the rest of us that it was, in fact, a joke. What happened there?Nick: Well, one of the pieces of research that Gartner puts out every year is this thing called a Hype Cycle. And we've all seen it, it looks like a roller coaster in profile; big mountain goes up really high and then comes down steeply, drops into a valley, and then—Corey: ‘the trough of disillusionment,' as I recall.Nick: Yes, my favorite. And then plateaus out. And one of the profiles on that curve was Hadoop distributions. And after years of taking inquiry calls, and writing documents, and speaking with everybody about what they were doing, we realized that this really isn't taking off like everyone thinks it is. Cluster sizes weren't getting bigger, people were having a lot of challenges with the complexity, people couldn't find skills to run it themselves if they wanted to.And then the cloud providers came in and said, “Well, we'll make a lot of this really simple for you, and we'll get rid of HDFS,” which is—was a good idea, but it didn't really scale well. I think that the challenge of having to acquire computers with compute storage and memory again, and again, and again, and again, just was not sustainable for the majority of enterprises. And so we flagged it as this will be obsolete before plateau. And at that point, we got a lot of hate mail, but it just seemed like the right decision to make, right? Once again, we're Tron; we fight for the users.And that seemed like the right advice and direction to provide to the end-users. And so didn't make a lot of friends, but I think I was long-term right about what happened in the Hadoop space. Certainly, some fragments of it are left over and we're still seeing—you know, Spark is going strong, there's a lot of Hive still around, but Hadoop as this amalgamation of open-source projects, I think is effectively dead.Corey: I sure hope you're right. I think it has a long tail like most things that are there. Legacy is the condescending engineering term for ‘it makes money.' You were at Gartner for almost eight years and then you left to go work at Cribl. What triggered that? What was it that made you decide, “This is great. I've been here a long time. I've obviously made it work for me. I'm going to go work at a startup that apparently, even though it recently raised a $200 million funding round”—congratulations on that, by the way—“It still apparently can't afford to buy a vowel in its name.” That's C-R-I-B-L because, of course, it is. Maybe another consonant, while you're shopping. But okay, great. It's oddly spelled, it is hard to explain in some cases, to folks who are not already feeling pain in that space. What was it that made you decide to sit up and, “All right, this is where I want to be?”Nick: Well, I met the co-founders when I was an analyst. They were working at Splunk and oddly enough—this is going to be an interesting transition compared to the previous thing we talked about—they were working on Hunk, which was, let's use HDFS to store Splunk data. Made a lot of sense, right? It could be much more cost-effective than high-cost infrastructure for Splunk. And so they told me about this; I was interested.And so I met the co-founders and then I reconnected with them after they left and formed Cribl. And I thought the story was really cool because where they're sitting is between sources and destinations of observability data. And they were solving a problem that all of my customers had, but they couldn't resolve. They would try and build it themselves. They would look at—Kafka was a popular choice, but that had some challenges for observability data—works fantastically well for application data.And they were just—had a very pragmatic view of the world that they were inhabiting and the problem that they were looking to solve. And it looked kind of like a no-brainer of a problem to solve. But when you double-click on it, when you really look down and say, “All right, what are the challenges with doing this?” They're really insurmountable for a lot of organizations. So, even though they may try and take a DIY approach, they often run into trouble after just a few weeks because of all the protocols you have to support, all the different data formats, and all the destinations, and role-based access control, and everything else that goes along with it.And so I really liked the team. I thought the product inhabited a unique space in the market—we've already talked about the lack of competitors in the space—and I just felt like the company was on a rocket ship—or is a rocket ship—that basically had unbounded success potential. And so when the opportunity arose to join the team and do a lot of the things I like doing as an analyst—examining the market, talking to people looking at competitive aspects—I jumped at it.Corey: It's nice when you see those opportunities that show up in front of you, and the stars sort of align. It's like, this is not just something that I'm excited about and enthused about, but hey, they can use me. I can add something to where they're going and help them get there better, faster, sooner, et cetera, et cetera.Nick: When you're an analyst, you look at dozens of companies a month and I'd never seen an opportunity that looked like that. Everything kind of looked the same. There's a bunch of data integration companies, there's a bunch of companies with Spark and things like that, but this company was unique; the product was unique, and no one was really recognizing the opportunity. So, it was just a great set of things that all happen at the same time.Corey: It's always fun to see stars align like that. So—Nick: Yeah.Corey: —help me understand in a way that can be articulated to folks who don't have 15 years of grumpy sysadmin experience under their belts, what does Cribl do?Nick: So, Cribl does a couple of things. Our flagship product is called LogStream, and the easiest way to describe that is as an abstraction between sources and destinations of data. And that doesn't sound very interesting, but if you, from your sysadmin background, you're always dealing with events, logs, now there's traces, metrics are also hanging around—Corey: Oh, and of course, the time is never synchronized with anything either, so it's sort of a giant whodunit, mystery, where half the eyewitnesses lie.Nick: Well, there's that. There's a lot of data silos. If you got an agent deployed on a system, it's only going to talk to one destination platform. And you repeat this, maybe a dozen times per server, and you might have 100,000 or 200,000 servers, with all of these different agents running on it, each one locked into one destination. So, you might want to be able to mix and match that data; you can't. You're locked in.One of the things LogStream does is it lets you do that exact mixing and matching. Another thing that this product does, that LogStream does, is it gives you ability to manage that data. And then what I mean by that is, you may want to reduce how much stuff you're sending into a given platform because maybe that platform charges you by your daily ingest rates or some other kind of event-based charges. And so not all that data is valuable, so why pay to store it if it's not going to be valuable? Just dump it or reduce the amount of volume that you've got in that payload, like a Windows XML log.And so that's another aspect that it allows you to do, better management of that stuff. You can redact sensitive fields, you can enrich the data with maybe, say, GeoIPs so you know what kind of data privacy laws you fall under and so on. And so, the story has always been, land the data in your destination platform first, then do all those things. Well, of course, because that's how they charge you; they charge you based on daily ingest. And so now the story is, make those decisions upfront in one place without having to spread this logic all over, and then send the data where you want it to go.So, that's really, that's the core product today, LogStream. We call ourselves an observability pipeline for observability data. The other thing we've got going on is this project called AppScope, and I think this is pretty cool. AppScope is a black box instrumentation tool that basically resides between the application runtime and the kernel and any shared libraries. And so it provides—without you having to go back and instrument code—it instruments the application for you based on every call that it makes and then can send that data through something like LogStream or to another destination.So, you don't have to go back and say, “Well, I'm going to try and find the source code for this 30-year old c++ application.” I can simply run AppScope against the process, and find out exactly what that application is doing for me, and then relay that information to some other destination.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Liquibase. If you're anything like me, you've screwed up the database part of a deployment so severely that you've been banned from touching every anything that remotely sounds like SQL, at at least three different companies. We've mostly got code deployments solved for, but when it comes to databases we basically rely on desperate hope, with a roll back plan of keeping our resumes up to date. It doesn't have to be that way. Meet Liquibase. It is both an open source project and a commercial offering. Liquibase lets you track, modify, and automate database schema changes across almost any database, with guardrails to ensure you'll still have a company left after you deploy the change. No matter where your database lives, Liquibase can help you solve your database deployment issues. Check them out today at liquibase.com. Offer does not apply to Route 53.Corey: I have to ask because I love what you're doing, don't get me wrong. The counterargument that always comes up in this type of conversation is, “Who in their right mind looks at the state of the industry today and says, ‘You know what we need? That's right; another observability tool.'” what differentiates what you folks are building from a lot of the existing names in the space? And to be clear, a lot of the existing names in the space are treating observability simply as hipster monitoring. I'm not entirely sure they're wrong, but that's a different fight for a different time.Nick: Yeah. I'm happy to come back and talk about that aspect of it, too. What's different about what we're doing is we don't care where the data goes. We don't have a dog in that fight. We want you to have better control over where it goes and what kind of shape it's in when it gets there.And so I'll give an example. One of our customers wanted to deploy a new SIEM—Security Information Event Management—tool. But they didn't want to have to deploy a couple hundred-thousand new agents to go along with it. They already had the data coming in from another agent, they just couldn't get the data to it. So, they use LogStream to send that data to their new desired platform.Worked great. They were able to go from zero to a brand new platform in just a couple days, versus fighting with rolling out agents and having to update them. Did they conflict with existing agents? How much performance did it impact on the servers, and so on? So, we don't care about the destination. We like everybody. We're agnostic when it comes to where that data goes. And—Corey: Oh, it's not about the destination. It's about the journey. Everyone's been saying it, but you've turned it into a product.Nick: It's very spiritual. So, we [laugh] send, we send your observability data on a spiritual [laugh] journey to its destination, and we can do quite a bit with it on the way.Corey: So, you said you offered to go back as well and visit the, “Oh, it's monitoring, but we're going to call it observability because otherwise we get yelled out on Twitter by Charity Majors.” How do you view that?Nick: Monitoring is the things you already know. Right? You know what questions you want to ask, you get an alert if something goes out of bounds or something goes from green to red. Think about monitoring as a data warehouse. You shape your data, you get it all in just the right condition so you can ask the same question over and over again, over different time domains.That's how I think about monitoring. It's prepackaged, you know exactly what you want to do with it. Observability is more like a data lake. I have no idea what I'm going to do with this stuff. I think there's going to be some signals in here that I can use, and I'm going to go explore that data.So, if monitoring is your known knowns, observability is your unknown unknowns. So, an ideal observability solution gives you an opportunity to discover what those are. Once you discover them. Great. Now, you can talk about how to get them into your monitoring system. So, for me, it's kind of a process of discovery.Corey: Which makes an awful lot of sense. The problem I've always had with the monitoring approach is it falls into this terrible pattern of enumerate the badness. In other words, “Imagine all the ways that this system can fail,” and then build an alerting that lets you know when any of those things happen. And what happens next is inevitable to anyone who's ever dealt with the tricksy devils known as computers, and what happens, of course, is that they find new ways to fail and you generally get to add to the list of things to check for, usually at two o'clock in the morning.Nick: On a Sunday.Corey: Oh, absolutely. It almost doesn't matter when. The real problem is when these things happen, it's, “What day, actually, is it?” And you have to check the calendar to figure out because your third time that week being woken up in the dead of night. It's like an infant but less than endearing.So, that has been the old school approach, and there's unfortunately still an awful lot of, we'll just call it nonsense, in the industry that still does exactly the same thing, except now they call it observability because—hearkening back to earlier in our conversation—there's a certain point in the Gartner Hype Cycle that we are all existing within. What's the deal with that?Nick: Well, I think that there are a lot of entrenched interests in the monitoring space. And so I think you always see this when a new term comes around. Vendors will say, “All right, well, there's a lot of confusion about this. Let me back-fit my product into this term so that I can continue to look like I'm on the leading edge and I'm not going to put any of my revenues in jeopardy.” I know, that's a cynical view, but I've seen it over and over again.And I think that's unfortunate because there's a real opportunity to have a better understanding of your systems, to better understand what's happening in all the containers you're deploying and not tearing down the way that you should, to better understand what's happening in distributed systems. And it's going to be a real missed opportunity if that is what happens. If we just call this ‘Monitoring 2.0' it's going to leave a lot of unrealized potential in the market.Corey: The big problem that I've seen in a lot of different areas is—I'll be direct—consolidation where you have a company that starts to do a thing—and that's great—and then they start doing other things that are tied to it. And in turn, they start, I guess, gathering everything in the ecosystem. If you break down observability into various constituent parts, I—know, I know, the pillars thing is going to upset people; ignore that for now—and if you have an offering that's weak in a particular area, okay, instead of building it organically into the product, or saying, “Yeah, that's not what we do,” there's an instinct to acquire a company or build that functionality out. And it turns out that we're building what feels the lot to me like the SaaS equivalent of multifunction printers: they can print, they can scan, they can fax, and none of those three very well, so it winds up with something that dissatisfies everyone, rather than a best-of-breed solution that has a very clear and narrow starting and stopping point. How do you view that?Nick: Well, what you've described is a compromise, right? A compromise is everyone can work and no one's happy. And I think that's the advantage of where LogStream comes in. The reality is best-of-breed. Most enterprises today have 30 or more different monitoring tools—call them observability tools if you want to—and you will never pry those tools from the dead hands of those sysadmins, DevOps engineers, SREs, et cetera.They all integrate those tools into how they work and their processes. So, we're living in a best-of-breed world. It's like that in data and analytics—my former beat—and it's like that in monitoring and observability. People really gravitate towards the tools they like, they gravitate towards the tools their friends are using. And so you need a way to be able to mix and match that stuff.And just because I want to stay [laugh] on message, that's really where the LogStream story kind of blends in because we do that; we allow you to mix and match all those different pieces.Corey: Joke's on you. I use Nagios and I have no friends. I'm not convinced those two things are entirely unrelated, but here we are. So here's, I guess, the big burning question that a lot of folks—certainly not me, but other undefined folks, ‘lots of people are saying'—so you built something interesting that actually works. I want to be clear on this.I have spoken to customers of yours. They swear by it instead of swearing at it, which happens with other companies. Awesome. You have traction, you're moving forward, things are going great. Here's $200 million is the next part of that story, and on some level, my immediate reaction—which does need updating, let's be clear here—is like, all right.I'm trying to build a product. I can see how I could spend a few million bucks. “Well, what can you do with I don't know, 100 times that?” My easy answer is, “Something monstrous.” I don't believe that is the case here. What is the growth plan? What are you doing that makes having that kind of a war chest a useful and valuable thing to have?Nick: Well, if you speak with the co-founders—and they've been open about this—we view ourselves as a generational company. We're not just building one product. We've been thinking about, how do we deliver on observability as this idea of discovery? What does that take? And it doesn't mean that we're going to be less agnostic to other destinations, we still think there's an incredible amount of value there and that's not going away, but we think there's maybe an interim step that we build out, potentially this idea of an observability data lake where you can explore these environments.Certainly, there's other types of options in the space today. Most of them are SQL-based, which is interesting because the audience that uses monitoring and observability tools couldn't care less about SQL right? They want search, they want regex, and so you've got to have the right tool for that audience. And so we're thinking about what that looks like going forward. We're doubling down on people.Surprisingly, this is a very—like anything else in software, it is people-intensive. And so certainly those are other aspects that we're exploring with the recent investment, but definitely, multiproduct company is our future and continued expansion.Corey: Expansion is always a fun one. It's the idea of, great, are you looking at going deeper into the areas you're already active within, or is it more of a, “Ah, so we've solved the, effectively, log routing problem. That's great. Let's solve other problems, too.” Or is it more of a, I guess, a doubling down and focusing on what's working? And again, that probably sounds judgmental in a way I don't intend it to at all. I just have a hard time contextualizing that level of scale coming from a small company perspective the way that I do.Nick: Yeah. Our plan is to focus more intently on the areas that we're in. We have a huge basis of experience there. We don't want to be all things to all people; that dilutes the message down to nothing, so we want to be very specific in the audiences we talk to, the problems we're trying to solve, and how we try to solve them.Corey: The problem I've always found with a lot of the acquisition, growth thrashing of—let me call it what I think it is: companies in decline trying to strain relevancy, it feels almost like a, “We don't see a growth strategy. So, we're going to try and acquire everything that hold still long enough, at some level, trying to add more revenue to the pile, but also thrashing in the sense of, okay. They're going to teach us how to do things in creative, awesome ways,” but it never works out that way. When you have a 50,000 person company acquiring a 200 person company, invariably the bigger culture is going to dominate. And I don't understand why that mistake seems to continually happen again, and again, and again.And people think I'm effectively alluding to—or whenever the spoken word version of subtweeting is—a particular company or a particular acquisition. I'm absolutely not, there are probably 50 different companies listening right now who thinks, “Oh, God. He's talking about us.” It's the common repeating trend. What is that?Nick: It's hard to say. In some cases, these acquisitions might just be talent. “We need to know how to do X. They know how to do X. Let's do it.” They may have very unique niche technology or software that another company thinks they can more broadly apply.Also, some of these big companies, these may not be board-level or CEO-level decisions. A business unit might decide, “Oh, I like what that company is doing. I'm going to go acquire it.” And so it looks like MegaCorp bought TinyCorp, but it's really, this tiny business unit within MegaCorp bought tiny company. The reality is often different from what it looks like on the outside.So, that's one way. Another is, you know, if they're going to teach us to be more effective with tech or something like that, you're never going to beat culture. You're never going to be the existing culture. If it's 50,000, against 200, obviously we know who wins there. And so I don't know if that's realistic.I don't know if the big companies are genuine when they say that, but it could just be the messaging that they use to make people happy and hopefully retain as many of those new employees for as long as they can. Does that make sense?Corey: No, it makes perfect sense. It's the right answer. It does articulate what is happening there, and I think I keep falling prey to the same failure. And it's hard. It's pernicious, but companies are not monolithic entities.There's no one person at all of these companies each who is making these giant unilateral decisions. It's always some product manager or some particular person who has a vision and a strategy in the department. It is not something that the company board is agreeing on every little decision that gets made. They're distributed entities in many respects.Nick: Absolutely. And that's only getting more pervasive as companies get larger [laugh] through acquisition. So, you're going to see more and more of that, and so it's going to look like we're going to put one label on it, one brand. Often, I think internally, that's the exact opposite of what actually happened, how that decision got made.Corey: Nick, I want to thank you for taking so much time to speak with me about what you're up to over there, how your path has shaped, how you view the world, and also what Cribl does these days. If people want to learn more about what you're up to, how you think about the world, or even possibly going to work at Cribl which, having spoken to a number of people over there, I would endorse it. How do they find you?Nick: Best place to find us is by joining our community: cribl.io/community, and Cribl is spelled C-R-I-B-L. You can certainly reach out there, we've got about 2300 people in our community Slack, so it's a great group. You can also reach out to me on Twitter, I'm @nheudecker, N-H-E-U-D-E-C-K-E-R. Tell me what you thought of the episode; love to hear it. And then beyond that, you can also sign up for our free cloud tier at cribl.cloud. It's a pretty generous one terabyte a day processing, so you can start to send data in and send it wherever you'd like to be.Corey: To be clear, this free as in beer, not free as an AWS free tier?Nick: This is free as in beer.Corey: Excellent. Excellent.Nick: I think I'm getting that right. I think it's free as in beer. And the other thing you can try is our hosted solution on AWS, fully managed cloud at cribl.cloud, we offer a free one terabyte per day processing, so you can start to send data into that environment and send it wherever you'd like to go, in whatever shape that data needs to be in when it gets there.Corey: And we will, of course, put links to that in the [show notes 00:35:21]. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.Nick: No, thank you for having me. This was a lot of fun.Corey: Nick Heudecker, senior director, market strategy and competitive intelligence at Cribl. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, along with a comment explaining that the only real reason a startup should raise a $200 million funding round is to pay that month's AWS bill.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.
It's The Undroppables/Campus2Canton takeover when Nick You (@101chalk) and Scott aka Jax Falcone (@DynoGameTheory, @TheUndraftedFF) of The Undroppables, and Felix Sharpe (@sharpereview, @devydebate) of Campus2Canton take a seat at the roundtable! QB draft strategy, RB landscape, Landing spot, and more! Let's hit it! Please subscribe to the pod and follow on Twitter at: @willson8tor @FCFPod @DLFootball
It's The Undroppables/Campus2Canton takeover when Nick You (@101chalk) and Scott aka Jax Falcone (@DynoGameTheory, @TheUndraftedFF) of The Undroppables, and Felix Sharpe (@sharpereview, @devydebate) of Campus2Canton take a seat at the roundtable! QB draft strategy, RB landscape, Landing spot, and more! Let's hit it! Please subscribe to the pod and follow on Twitter at: @willson8tor @FCFPod @DLFootball
We were lucky enough to have Nick Santonastasso come to my house and wrestle with me, and give my kids a private workshop. Listen in behind the scenes and hopefully it will change your life like it did ours. Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ---Transcript--- What's up everybody. This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. And Oh boy, do I have a treat for you guys today. So the guest for the podcast is my new friend and wrestling partner, Nick Santonastasso. And he's someone who I had a chance to... I've seen him online a whole bunch of times and a whole bunch of different places. And then he reached out to me out of the blue and said, "Hey, Russell, come out and interview for my podcast." And I knew that he wrestled, and I was like, "Dude. Yes." And I was excited. I'm like, "Yeah, I love your message. Love who you are. I love what you stand for." And he's like, "If you want I'll actually fly out to Boise." And at the time I was just sitting in my wrestling room, I knew he's a wrestler. And I was like, "Dude, how about this? You come out and then you can interview me for your podcast. And then I'll actually wrestle you in my wrestling room?" And he was like, "Yeah, that'd be amazing." And so we planned this whole thing out. And the week before Thanksgiving, he flew out here to Boise and I did an interview for his podcast. And then we came back to my wrestling room and wrestled. And obviously, my entire family wanted to meet him and to see him. If you haven't met Nick before, he has no legs and he only has one arm, and his story is amazing. And the fact that he was a wrestler is even cooler. And so me and him wrestled. And after we got into wrestling, we had so much fun, then everyone, my kids and my wife and my parents were there and everybody had a million questions for him. So I said, "How about this? Let's do a little mini seminar with my kids to be willing to." And he's like, "Sure." And so we pulled up the mats and the crash pads and the box jumps, and we had everybody sit on them, and then Nick had a chance to tell us some of the story and talk to the kids at a really cool level. And it was really fun. One of my kids was really nervous asking questions. He thought I was going to get mad at him. Anyway, it's fun. You have a chance to hear from kids, you ask him questions and hear Nick's story. And I hope that you love it. It was one of the highlights of my year, super special opportunity for me and for my family to have a chance to meet someone like Nick and to hear his story. And it's just a huge blessing that I think he gave me to be able to have him talk to my kids. And so I wanted to share this with you guys, because a lot of you guys have kids, a lot of you guys are kids and a lot of you guys have different situations. And I hope that some of the things that Nick shared with me and my family, it'll mean a lot to you as well. So with that said, we're going to cue the theme song. And we come back, you have a chance to sit in, into a private discussion with my kids and Nick as they talk about life, motivation about doing your best, a whole bunch of other cool things. So with that said, we'll cue the theme song. We'll be right back. Hey everyone, this is Russell Brunson. I'm here in our wrestling room right now with a bunch of my kids and cousins and friends, because we've got a special guest in town, in Boise today who I just got done wrestling, which was so much fun. And this is Nick. We had a great time. And thanks for coming and hanging out with us here in Boise and talking to all the kids. Nick Santonastasso: You got it. Russell: So kind of the game plan we want to do is I wanted my kids to get to know him and hear some of his stories and stuff for so many reasons. And so I'd love to begin with, if you want to tell them little about your story, about your life, growing up wrestling, and just some of the background. And then I got some cool questions about other stuff I want to talk about too. Nick: Yeah. Great. It's pretty open-ended when he said share your story. I got a long story. And so I'll give you a little context of why I was born like this. And yes, I was born like this. I didn't wrestle no sharks or anything. I see we got some laughs. I'm 24 years old. In 1996, my mom went in for a late ultrasound, and a ultrasound is where they see the baby inside the stomach. And they sat my parents down and said, "Something's really wrong." And they said, "From the looks of it, it doesn't look like your baby's limbs are being developed. It looks like he's missing his legs, his arm, and his face might be messed up." Clearly, my face isn't messed up. Right? And so what they did was they classified me with what they call Hanhart syndrome. And Hanhart syndrome is a super rare genetic disorder that either leaves the babies with undeveloped limbs or undeveloped organs. And so that means the babies are either born with a heart that can't beat on its own or their stomach can't process food on its own, and they later on pass away. And so they told my parents that their baby boy has about a 30% chance to live. And so I was born and the test of my organs came back 100% healthy, and the only thing that was affected were my limbs. And so I was born in this unicorn body of no legs and one arm. And all my organs are 100% healthy. Always the lesson behind that is the doctor said it had about a 30% chance to live. And my parents made a massive promise. And that promise was that they were going to focus on the 30% chance of me living rather than the what? Dallin: You dying. Nick: Exactly. You dying. Exactly. The aggressive way to say it. And so the 70% of me dying. Exactly. And so in life, that's the... Ooh, careful. I know you beat me up earlier, but stay on here. And so the little lesson is, would you agree that in your life, there's always something bad that you can focus on? Would you agree? And would you agree that there's always something good that you can focus on? And so the majority of humans, and you can agree, the majority of adults always focus on the negative stuff. And so if we can train our brain to always focus on the good things, then we always win. And so that was how I was born. And then getting into wrestling, when I got into middle school and high school, which some of you, when you get into middle school and high school, at that time, a big portion of life was boyfriends and girlfriends. Awkward phase, getting into middle school and high school. I see people getting awkward. It's awkward. And so I felt like I stood out. Well, I clearly stood out because I have no legs, one arm. And there was a specific moment where I was on the bus and there was a girl to the left of me and she was making fun of everyone on the bus. And I'm like, "Oh my God, she's going to have a field day with me." And she looked over to me and she said, "Nick, I don't even have to start with you. You're already too messed up anyway. Look at you." And I'm only a 14, 15 year old kid. And the first question that pops in my head is, why me? Have you ever asked yourself, like, "Why is this happening to me?" And so I asked myself, "Why is this happening to me?" And from that moment of one girl making fun of me, I thought things like, "Oh, I'm disgusting. I'll never have a girlfriend. I'll never go to a school dance. I'll never be able to walk my girlfriend to her locker because I can't walk. And she want to hold my finger. Is that weird?" I just started thinking about all these negative things. And so for the majority of my life, I felt my body, my no legs and one arm was the most disgusting thing, the biggest curse that life could give me. And then I was able to reframe it. And what reframing is, is say you have a bad event happen in your life. And I had the same thing happen to me. You could see all the good and I could see all the bad, it's what we focus on, yes? And so I realized a couple of years later that if a girl doesn't want to be my girlfriend, or if someone doesn't want to do business with me because of my no legs, one arm, well, wait, maybe this disability or whatever you want to call it is actually working for me and it's filtering out the type of human and womens that I don't want in my life anyway. And so when you show up authentic, when you show up transparent and you show up yourself, would you agree that the universe makes it very easy to see who's your friend and who's not your friend? I mean, have you ever had a situation in school where you thought someone was your friend and they no longer was? Has that ever happened? And that means that we don't want those people in our life. And then you also have people in your life that love on you. Anyone have good friends here? I hope. Raise your hands. That's because you show up yourself. And so I have a quote on my arm. It says, "You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you're all the same." And that's not me making fun of people with legs and arms, but what I'm saying is the best thing you could be, the most authentic thing you could be as who? Who do you think? Were you listening? You. You. You show up, Norah, and you're the greatest Norah that the world has ever seen, because you are you. And so we're going to grow up and people are going to like us and people are not going to like us. Who agrees with that? But as long as you show up yourself, the universe makes it really easy to find out who loves you for you and who doesn't love you for you. Russell: That's awesome. Nick: Facilitator, where else would you like to go? Russell: So now we're in high school, struggling with high school stuff. And you told me your older brother's a wrestler, and you wanted to do that. I'd love to hear the story about wrestling, why you got involved in that. Nick: Yeah. So my older brother was a wrestler. He's a really good wrestler and I thought wrestlers were the coolest thing on earth. And so when I got into high school, I was looking for a way to build more confidence in myself, because I didn't have much confidence. And so I wanted to do something that was going to make me feel really good about myself. And so I wanted to become an athlete after my whole life people said, "Nick, you can't be an athlete. You can't do sports. You have no legs, one arm." And so, one day I came into school, my friend said, "Nick, you should try wrestling." And I said, "I can't my arm." And this, we call it the potato. It looks like a potato now. But it used to look like a chicken wing. You believe it? Do you believe it? And the reason why it looked like a chicken wing is because this arm was five inches longer than it is now. And my bone was going faster than my skin. So it was super sensitive. And the bottom line is if I would have hit my arm hard enough, my bone would've came through my skin. Yeah, crazy. Right. And so I couldn't do any physical activities with it. And so one day I came home and I said, "Mom and dad, I want to become a wrestler." And they said, "You can't, your arm." And then I looked at my parents and I said, "Can we cut my arm off?" And they said, "What?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm not joking. Can we cut my arm off? Can we do something about it?" And they said, "Is this something that you really want to do?" And I said, "It's going to make me an athlete. I'll be able to wrestle. I'll have more confidence in myself." And so my sophomore year of high school, my parents scheduled the appointment for the doctors to amputate my arm. And so I have these scars here, but what they did was, I didn't know they could do this, but they lasered five inches of my bone off. And then they pulled extra skin. Now you're taller than me. Then they pulled extra skin from my shoulder over my bone so I could beat people up with it. I remember right before I went into surgery, I said, "Doc, if I can't beat someone over the head with my arm when I come back, we're going to have a problem. I need to be able to do some physical activities with this thing." And so I went throughout the surgery and I go back to school. I had 17 stitches in my arm and I was the happiest kid that just cut his arm off. I go back to school, smiling. And people are like, "Nick, what'd you do?" I'm like, "I cut my arm off. It's great." And they said, "Why?" And I said, "I'm going to become a wrestler." And people made fun of me. They said, "Nick, how are you going to become a wrestler? You have no legs and one arm." And so I went out and I became a wrestler. My junior year, I got my butt kicked. And then my senior year, I was able to come out as the 106 pound varsity wrestler from my high school. And would you agree that that would probably instilled confidence in me and I'd probably feel a little bit better about myself, I'm an athlete, maybe the girls would like me? That's my thought process as a 16, 17 year old kid. And then the app, Vine came out. Y'all know what Vine is? You remember Vine? You remember Vine? Vine was an app that you could post six second videos. Raise your hand if you know what Vine is. Adults, raise your hand if you know what Vine is. All right, I'm going to educate you. So Vine was an app in 2014. I was a senior in high school where you can post six second videos. You had to be as creative as you can in six seconds. And so I wanted to create a way where I could make people laugh, but inspire them at the same time. And I wanted to do something that has never been done before. And so I was with my friends like this, and we're thinking of an idea. And I said, "I got an idea." I said, "How many legless guys do you see crawling around Walmart, pretending to be a zombie?" Bowen: Propped up just like that and siting in a elevator or something? Nick: That was me. And so I said, "That's a great idea." And so I'm a senior in high school and I put fake blood on my face and I put fake blood on my clothes, and I set out to my local Walmart in New Jersey, which Nick's not allowed in that Walmart anymore. And I go down the aisles and I'm looking for my victim, and I see this guy, he's heavily invested in the paper towels. And I looked at my camera guy, I go, "Record this. I'm going to try to scare him." And so I came around the corner as fast as I could like this. And he goes, "Oh," he threw the paper towels at my face. And I looked at my camera guy. I go, "Was that six seconds?" He goes, "Yes." I'm like, "Yes, this is just what the internet needs." And so I apologized to the guy. I told him I wasn't a zombie and that I'm really alive. And, "Thanks for letting me prank you." And I told my friends, "Pick me up and carry me out of Walmart before we get kicked out." And so I posted the video and I wanted 500 kids to see the video. I wanted to get 500 views. I posted the video and I went to sleep. And when I woke up for school, the next morning, the video had over 80,000 likes and over 80,000 reposts. I go back to school, my friends were like, "Dude, you're the zombie king." And I'm like, "What did I get myself into?" And so in under a year, my senior year I gained a million followers on Vine and the owners of The Walking Dead, the TV show hired me to fly out to Tokyo, Japan, to scare the main actor of The Walking Dead as a zombie. And so, the lesson in this, don't try to crawl around Walmart. It probably won't work for you, but would you agree that we all have unique gifts, unique ways, unique ways to make people laugh, inspire them? For me it was crawling around Walmart at the time, but we all have unique gifts. As you said, God gives us unique gifts and we have to use those. And so I use my unique body to scare people and make them laugh at the same time, which led me into going out on the internet and gaining a bunch of followers. And then I realized at one point that when I have kids and grandkids, that I want them to know me for much more than crawling around a Walmart. So I did what every kid with no legs and one arm kid would do, is I tried out for bodybuilding, said, no one ever. A lot of the times in bodybuilding, they say you have to focus on your legs, but most bodybuilders skip leg day anyway. And so I fit right in. Where do you want to go from here? But that's my zombie prank story. And so some of you may have seen my zombie pranks. You've seen them? Ryker: I've seen the one where you crawl in Walmart. Nick: Yeah. So that was high school Nick. I've evolved. I've come a long way from scaring people in Walmart. Russell: That's cool. So you got into bodybuilding and then I just wonder, because one of things I think a lot of us people don't do is we dabble in things. Like, "Oh, we'll try this. I'm going to try this and try this." But when you decided, "I'm going to be a bodybuilder," it wasn't just dabbling, right? You shifted your environment, shifted everything. You want to talk about the process there and what you did to be successful? Nick: Yeah. What humans have, we all have it is shiny objects into syndrome, kind of like Norah. You like shiny objects, right? Stars and bells and whistles and all humans like that. And so we try to do one thing and we're like, "Oh, maybe I want to try this over here." And so when I wanted to become a bodybuilder, I was living in New Jersey and it's very cold in New Jersey most of the time. And so I moved to Florida because it's... Have you ever been to Florida, anyone? We got to get you to Florida. I know Boise is great, but I mean, Florida is great too. And so I moved to Florida and I wanted to become a bodybuilder. And the first thing I did was found a really big muscle dude. And I said, "Will you teach me how to body build? You look like you know what you're doing." And that's what we do in business, is if we want to do something, we find out someone who's successful and we model them. And the reason being is because we don't have to reinvent the wheel, we don't have to recreate something. We just find someone who's successful and we learn from them. And so I attempted to become a bodybuilder. And when I moved to Florida, I told everyone, over a million people that followed me that before 2017 was over, I was going to step or hop on the competitive bodybuilding stage before the year was over. And so I did a 12 week preparation and I dedicated 12 weeks of my life to training and health and fitness. And I was 10 weeks into my prep, and I went to Vegas for an expo. And one of the days I went to the gym. Do you guys know The Rock? Everyone: Yeah. Nick: So The Rock was in the gym when I was at the gym and I've been blowing him up with bodybuilding videos for years. And so he already knew who I was. And so I go in the gym and low behold, there's Dwayne, The Rock Johnson. And he's surrounded by four security guards. And he's working out. I'm like, "Oh my God, it's The Rock." And I told my friends, I said, "Let's not bother this man." I stick out like a sore thumb. If he sees me, he's going to know who Nick is. And so after about 45 minutes of lifting, his security guard comes over and taps me on my shoulder and says, "You're Nick, right?" I said, "Not many people look like this. I'm Nick." And he goes, "Can Dwayne meet you?" I was like, "Dude, bring him on. I've been waiting all this time." And so they bring me over into the corner and they bring The Rock over and The Rock gets on my level or tries his best to get on my level. And he goes, "Dude, I'm such a big fan. Can I have a picture with you?" And on the outside, I'm like, "Sure, bro." But on the inside and I'm like, "Oh my God, it's Dwayne The Rock Johnson." Fangirling. And so we took a picture and I blurted out all my goals to him. I said, "I'm going to be the first Calvin Klein model with no legs. I'm going to write a book. I'm going to speak all over the world." And he said, "Nick, you're right, because people like you and I, they put us in any industry and we adapt and overcome." And all of us, would you agree with COVID and during this weird time, we've all adapted? We do school differently. We hang out with friends differently. Would you agree, we all have adapted? And so the more that we exercise the muscle of doing things differently, the more successful we'll be when we're adults. And so after that, I went back to Florida and I competed in bodybuilding against full-bodied guys. And I took third. I beat full body guys in bodybuilding, but I was telling Russell that I competed in the category where they don't judge your legs. That was important, because I don't got legs, I don't want them to judge my legs. And so I competed and I took third and I was the first man with no legs, one arm to jump on a bodybuilding stage. And the quote that I use is, "Over the 24 years of my life, I realized it's not the physical body that holds us back. But the biggest disability you can have," what do you think it is? "Your mindset." Great job. You guys rock. Russell: Awesome. The next thing we'll talk to you about is I know in your company you have a program that goes over a year long, Victorious, right? Nick: Yep. Russell: And each month covers a different letter. So I'd love just today and then probably out of time after that, but talking about the V and what that is in victorious. Victorious, right? Nick: Yeah. Junior Victorious. Russell: Yeah. And just talk about that for these guys because I think that's the first step for a lot of these guys when they're planning goals in sports or school, or any of their things they're trying to become. Nick: Yeah. So Junior Victorious, I created it because people like me and Russell, if we have all the knowledge and we don't give it to kids, then what's the use of it? Because we're not going to be around forever. That's just reality. And so we have to teach young people like you, so you can come, go and take over the world when you grow up. And so Victorious, basically the first month is V which stands for vision. And what vision is, is getting really clear on what you want in life. I think you can agree that the majority of humans don't really know what they want in life. They go to work or they go to school and don't really know why. Their first answer is, "I have to," but there's a deeper reason why you go to school. You probably want to be something, you want to do something with your life. And so V is getting clear. Say, you're an athlete. It's like, how many wins do you want to have? How many hours a day do you want to drill? What grades do you want to get? Does anyone know what they want to be when they're older? Curious. No idea. You got something, in the pink? Dallin: I would say it, but I don't think my dad would like it though. Nick: Got it. Maybe we'll skip over that one. But a vision. Are you okay? So vision basically is just getting very clear on what you want. And the reason why... Do you like cars? Dallin: Yeah. Nick: What kind of cars do you like? What kind of car do you want? You don't know? Dallin: Just one that goes fast. Nick: Yeah, exactly. So if he says, "I want a car and the one that goes fast," he's not going to get it because he doesn't know what car he wants. so the more clear that he can get on what car he wants, who agrees that he'll get the car faster because he knows exactly what he wants? That's a perfect example of all human beings. They want things, but they don't really know what they want. Right? Dallin: Yeah. Nick: And so next time I come back to Boise, I want you to have a specific car that you want so we can go get that car. Is that cool? I'm not buying it. Russ will buy it. But so getting very clear on what you want. And so it's like, who do you want to be? What kind of job do you want to work? What kind of college do you want to go to? What kind of school do you want to be? And the more clear that you can get on things, the faster that you'll get them. That's why, for example, if you wanted a specific car, adults help me out here because kids are a little bit difficult. Have you ever wanted a specific car and you were driving down the road and it was the only car you saw? I don't wear dresses, but women, have you ever wanted a specific dress and you finally got that dress and then you saw a bunch of other women that had the same dress? It's because your brain will go to what you want. That's why people who are depressed or people who are sad, they'll always be sad because they're always focused on the bad in their life. They're not focused on the good. And so our brain is extremely powerful because say you and I were very heavily invested in real estate, and they were whispering a conversation about real estate, we would hear it because our brain would pick up on it because that's where our focus is. That's why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The poor always focus on all the bad in their life, and the rich are focused on the opportunities. And so your brain is a computer. What you focus on, you will get more of. And so if you're always focused on, why me, or why is this happening to me? Or why does my life suck? Your brain will always come up with answers of why your life sucks. Who sees that? But if you ask yourself the question of, why am I amazing? Why did I get beat by Norah during the wrestling match? Or why is my life amazing? Your brain will always find the answer. And that's the thing. Our brain is a problem solving computer. And so it always looks for problems to solve. And you know this, if you're sitting around in your house and you don't have a problem, your brain will think of a problem and you'll try to solve it just because that's the way the brain works. And so I'll give you an easy example. If I woke up every single day, a man with no legs, one arm, and I focused on the fact that I'll never become a professional soccer player, will I be happy or sad? Quick. Everyone: Sad. Nick: Sad, right? I'm never become a professional soccer player. That's reality. But if I focus on what are my unique strengths, how can I make people laugh? How can I inspire them? What does my life look like then? It's better, right? That's where my focus is. Like Tony says where focus goes... Russell: Energy flows. Nick: Energy flows. They're a tough crowd. Russell: Okay. Next one. What questions do you guys have for Nick? Ryker? Ryker: How do you drive a car? Nick: That's a great question. So I drive a car, regular wheel. He's probably laughing because he doesn't think I could drive a car. So he just got proved wrong real quick. That's like teenage years, they try to test people. And so I drive a car with a regular wheel. That's why he's getting embarrassed. That's why you drive a car with a regular wheel. And then I have a little lever and I push the lever for brake and I push the level over for gas. And actually I have videos of me drifting my race car around the parking lot. Great question. Russell: There's another question here. Nick: You got one? Dallin: No. Nick: Okay. I'm just making sure. Aiden? Aiden: What's your favorite food? Nick: Great question. You want to guess? Aiden: I don't know. Nick: I like spaghetti. I'm Italian. My parents gave me a lot of spaghetti as a kid. You like spaghetti? What to go eat spaghetti after this? We can ditch this thing, get some spaghetti. That was a great question. Russell: Any other questions you guys have? We're super lucky to have him here. Bradley: I've got a question. How do you battle the fear of when you're trying to start something new or try something? How do you overcome the fear of trying something new? Nick: That's a great question. I'll give you a little story to help paint the picture. So they'd done a study on skydivers. And basically, they hooked the heart monitor up to skydivers. And so when they fly them up in the plane, their heart is going really fast. They're getting super nervous. "Oh my God." And then the moment that they jump out of the plane, their heart goes back to the normal speed. And so how do we eliminate fear? We take action. And so a lot of the times Russell and I are probably scared to do new things. Well, you're not scared to launch new funnels. You're a master at it. But launching new things, we're very scared. But I'd much rather attempt at my dreams and my goals and be on the sideline, hoping, wishing and regretting. Because at the end of the day, we only have one life for all we know. And there's so many people that are sitting on the sideline of life, making fun of people, bashing them. "You can't do this, you can't do that." But I'd much rather be on the mat rather than on the sideline. And also, realizing that failure is just feedback. A lot of the times we get programmed as kids that failure is bad. "I don't want to fail," but actually failure's our greatest lesson, our teaching. And so I failed a lot at life. Everything was hard for me, getting my clothes on, feeding myself, you name it, it was hard. And that's why I've been so successful is because I'm not afraid of failure. And so if we learn early on that failure is amazing and failure is our best friend, we'll have a better life. And so a little quote for you to remember, if you want to remember it, is, "If failure is a foe, you will never grow. If failure is a friend, you'll learn to the end." Super easy. I had to make it super dumb proof for adults as well. Do you want to ask a question? Dallin: Yeah. It's like, I don't know. It's just like talking about dropping out. Russell: Do you want me to ask it for you? Dallin: Yeah. Russell: So Dallin wants to be successful in life, but he focuses on he wants to drop out of high school. All he ever talks about is, "I want to drop out. I want to drop out." That's his vision and his goal, which is interesting, because I think he's got the right mindset. He wants to be successful, but he focuses on that all the time. So the question he wants to ask you is about him dropping out of school. Nick: Now you can ask it. Dallin: Oh. How do I say it? Nick: How do you drop out? Dallin: Yeah. Or, I don't know. Should I do it? Nick: Let me ask you a question. Do you individually pay for your school? Dallin: Nope. Nick: So why not get the knowledge if it's free? Dallin: I didn't think of it like that. Nick: Because when you're an adult, you're going to have to pay for knowledge. So if you're getting it for free why not take an advantage? Dallin: Because it's boring. Not boring, because I'm positive. Nick: Great takeaway. But would you agree if something's free, you might as well leverage it? Dallin: Yeah. Nick: So if you're a teenager and you're stuck in school, why not learn as much as you can because it's free and you're not paying for it? You probably don't take it serious enough because you don't pay for it. So maybe you need a little bit more skin in the game. Dallin: Maybe. I don't know. Nick: So I'd say get the knowledge while it's there. Dallin: All right. Nick: Who's the O.G? He says broke and stupid. Who's that? Zig Ziglar. Is it Zig or Jim Rohn? Russell: I think it's Jim. Nick: One of them. "The worst thing you could be is broke and stupid." And on top of that broke, stupid and ugly. You can't fix ugly. You might as well get the knowledge while it's there. I'm not calling you ugly, but I'm saying is you don't want to be broke or stupid. So get the knowledge while it's there. You're not paying for it. It's free knowledge. You'd be stupid not to take the knowledge. Dude, once you get out of high school, do you want. If you can't make it through high school, you ain't going to make it through business. Good luck. Good luck. High school is easy. Real world's way harder than high school. If you want to quit and tap out in high school, good luck, brother. Dallin: Oh boy. Nick: Let's keep that in there. That's a great lesson. That's a great lesson. That's a great lesson. I'm going to post it on my Instagram. What do you think? Russell: Do you have any questions? No. All right. Anybody else? Nick: That was a good question. It takes a lot to ask a question like that. Want to know why? Because most people wouldn't ask that question. I like it. I like the question. Great. You want to drop out too? Oh, okay. Just making sure. Just making sure. Russell: The good news for all your kids is everybody wants to drop out. It doesn't mean we do. I want to drop out of business lots of times. It gets hard. I got angry, I got people suing me. I got all sorts of stuff and it's tons of times I'm like, "Oh, it's so much easier to drop out." But it's like, well, I have a vision, we talked about it earlier. What's the vision? What are you trying to accomplish in life. You got to through a lot of hard stuff to get the good stuff. If you're not willing to go through the hard stuff, you never get the good stuff. Nick: You want a family one day? Dallin: Maybe. Nick: Okay. Do you want a girlfriend one day? Dallin: Yeah. Nick: Maybe. Or a boyfriend? Dallin: No. Nick: Okay. I don't know, whatever you go. But imagine your kid coming up to you one day and said, "My dad's a dropout." Dallin: I'd be proud. Nick: Dude, I like it. As long as you're proud of your decision and you made something of it, but I'm not your dad. I'm just a coach. Russell: He tells a story you told in lunchtime about your motivations that anchors you back to keep working out hard in the hard times. Nick: Yeah. So a lot of people ask me like, "How do you say so motivated to say so healthy with no legs, one arm?" And the reality is that there's a lot of kids that are paralyzed in wheelchairs. There's a lot of adults that are paralyzed in wheelchairs that look outside every day and say, "I wish I could go outside. Or I wish I could go to the gym," and they can't. But the one little visualization that I was going in with him is whenever I feel myself falling off track, I picture me, I'm 24, so I picture myself like 30, 35 and maybe I have a kid or two and I'm in my office. And that kid walks in and says, "Dad, why'd you get so fat? Dad, why did you let yourself go? Dad, you used to be a great speaker. Why did you give up on your dreams?" It makes me feel some type of way. If I really went into it, I'd probably start crying, because I never want my kid to look at me as a disappointment. And so I may not have kids now, but it's a motivation for me to keep going, because at one point I'm not going to be building a business for myself. Who am I going to be building a business for? My family. So it's way deeper than us as we get old. But you're young, so you've got time. Don't worry about kids calling you fat or anything. But what I'm saying is I visualize my kids looking at me and I want them to look at me proud, not as a fat dad that gave up on his dreams. Who agrees? Or a fat mom that gave up on their dreams. That's a bit aggressive. It works for me. Russell: That's awesome. Very cool. Anything else you've got? Nick: You guys are full of energy. I love it. Russell: I appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming, spending time with us and the kids. Nick: You got it. Norah, thanks for beating me up today. Russell: This is awesome. All right. Let's give Nick a huge round of applause.
This is episode two in The Getting Unstuck Series and in this episode we're talking about the mental stuckness; what to do about it, and how to get out of it. 4:36 When We’re Mentally Stuck It's funny that we're talking about mental stuckness. Because I know tech, but I'm not a techie tech per type of person. When it comes to all those little things and all the little boxes to check and the ways that the audio gets routed through a mic, to a board, into the computer and back out to somewhere else, there's all these little things and it is a process for me. And I got stuck in my head on this more than a couple of times. Nick Let's talk about that. So mentally stuck, what does that feel like? How do we know when we're mentally stuck? KISMA This is a great example. Because I had this idea of this thing that I wanted to do and I just couldn't figure out how to do it right, how to accomplish it. So when I would sit down to do it, I'd get lost down the rabbit holes. Nick A little into that need to be right. It's this way. Not the other way. KISMA I'm sure the need to be right was present and that is a telltale sign. Nick 6:29 The Need to be Right One of the ways you know you've got the mental stuckness is if you're digging your heels in and you have to be right. And when we have the need to be right, we're going to miss some things we're going to miss solutions. We're going to miss freedom. We're going to miss momentum because we've got to be right. And we only see it this way and it's really stuck. KISMA 7:37 Mental Movie What will happen in the mental stuckness is we humans will create an assumption, which then turns into this mental story. And a lot of times we assume something that we're not even sure is true, or we're in a situation and we can only see one aspect. Our perception of the situation spins and spins in a certain way. And it goes on more and more. That mental story is gaining life. It's gaining energy. And then we’ve got a mental movie that is playing in our head again and again. So we can't see any other way. The perception is stuck and if our perception will only allow us to see one way, we'll get stuck in that. KISMA 13:53 Getting Unstuck Let's move into the part where we give you some solutions to get unstuck mentally, because when you get unstuck mentally and you begin to think and send out thoughts with a different frequency, a different emotion, you're going to bring back something different. So number one, the part of the way out is just saying, “Okay, I think there's something going on here. I'm spinning. I'm stuck. I see the pattern of my thoughts. I notice the pattern of my words coming after the thoughts.” You've got to acknowledge it and be willing to change it. KISMA 20:10 We Don’t Have to be Stuck One of the big things that I'm taking away from this is that you can't think your way out of mental stuckness. You'll just spin the wheels. The solutions that you're giving are actually really, really simple and less is more. And ultimately the energy is all a matter of your decisions. So being in the in-between is really where the journey starts. Nick You know, we don't have to be stuck. We really don't. We can just flourish and thrive. And when we have each other to do so, it's so much easier. KISMA
It isn't just a night! It is a NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS! This episode we join Al E Impact and NXTiffany but where is Nick? You'll have to listen to find out! Also join us as we remember Road Warrior Animal. Plus our current champion, NXTiffany chooses her next Retro Review and this one is going to be pretty fun. Current Champion: NXTiffany Record: Al 1-1-0 DDT 1-1-0 Nick 0-2-0 Twitter: @YAWPodcast Instagram: @Yawpodcast E-mail: YAWPod@gmail.com
Alright, everybody. Welcome back to the hungriest episode of the mind of George show. And I'm going to be really, really honest. Some of you know, I'm doing the 75 hard challenge and I have to eat a certain way to support everybody and follow Andy's thing. And my guest today is probably the worst guest to have when it comes to being hungry and the best cast to have when it comes to business resiliency, overcoming challenges, mindset, leadership, and everything in between.Right. So like, let me just throw this out here before I bring Nick and, but we're talking world pizza team went from pizza delivery guy to owning six franchises awards across the board. Motivational speaker, everything that you can imagine. Podcast hosts has a book out there and really like probably a man after my heart.Every single thing that we talk about, or every single thing that he has somehow has pizza or food involved. So that inner fat kid that I work really hard to keep at Bay is going to be happy for today's episode. So without further ado, Nick, welcome to the show. Nick: Thanks for having me, George, I'm super excited to be here.George: Thanks for your time. And I'm, I'm just excited after digging into like your story, I found a keynote talking about you as a child and a resiliency and mindset. One of the first things that I always love to ask my guests, and I think this is so right up your alley and something that you're probably experiencing now and also have experienced in the past. But I always ask people like, what was one of the biggest challenges or struggles or failures that you you've had in business. And what was the lesson that you learned?Nick: There's there's been a lot of them. I think a lot of times people think that it just, everything happened overnight. They see the success and they think, wow, you know, this guy got lucky, but I think that any entrepreneur knows out there that, there's a lot of opposites and it's a giant roller coaster.From the very beginning giving I was a pizza delivery driver finally got my own shot at my own restaurant. And I had a partner from the very beginning and It, that was it. That was the big mistake. It lasted. We took over the restaurant September 14th and by Thanksgiving I had to tell my partner, he had to go because he just could not stop drinking.We bought a restaurant and a bar andhe was somebody I knew for eight years, good friend. He was going to be high. I was going to be the knowhow behind it. And I had to tell him he had to get out and he was okay with it because he really thought, you know what? I'm okay. It's okay. Because he's not, there's no way I was going to come up with the money. And I'm the guy, the issue there who were selling it to a saw how hard I was working. So they were like, you know whatwe don't like your partner either because every time we're here, he's drunk. So we'll just go ahead and we'll finance it over five years.Give us what you can give us this amount and the rest is history, but I think the lesson I learned from that is, you know, believe in yourself, you know what? I think a lot of times people get into business and they think they need a partner. And you know, if you work hard enough and think smart enough, and there's a lot of people out there that you can ask for for help, like, don't be, you know, be humble, be somebody that will ask for help when you know.George: Yeah, man, I, I love that it, and I think that's something that you like after digging in a little bit like full disclosure. You're probably the only guest I researched because you're like the most interesting man to me. And I was like, I got to keep finding out more. And like, even at a very young age for you though, like even when you were growing up, I think you have like four brothers, right?So three brothers, even at an early age, you found that you tilted more towards like wanting to be a coach, wanting to be a leader, like finding out these parts of yourself that you could share with other people, but you had it like a pretty young age we're interested in like, Believing in yourself and doing the work on yourself, right?Like what was that, what was that journey like? I mean, I can't imagine being like 13 years old and be like, I don't want to be the star. I'm like, I want to go be a leader today. Like that didn't get into me until the Marine Corps shoved it down my throat. And I'm so grateful that they did there. There was just punk kid in me until that point. So it sounds like you've, you've kind of been on this journey for a long time and now you're kind of living in the results of it and doing it. But what was, what was that like? Like, what was your childhood like? Like where did you get started in all of this and come up and kind of keep that leadership mentality and apply it to where you got to today.Nick: Well, my older brother is a number two, so my older brother's seven years older than me. So when I was 11, he was off to college. So it was my younger brothers were four and six years younger than me. So there you're okay with a seven year old brother and a five year old brother and really for the next step. Four years, you know, it was us and he went we live in Pittsburgh. He went to college in Daytona beach. So he was for the most part, he was gone for next week, four years. So, you know, I became, I guess the older brother. And I was, I love sports. I would sit there and watch sports center every single morning with my cereal.But I sucked me. I was just a kid that was so uncoordinated and you know, there were certain, certain sports, I guess, that I would just try really hard at it. And baseball, I just could never get the hacker pack of it for the hang of it. And then football, I was just always too skinny and you know, I was probably like, I don't know, maybe. It might five, five something like maybe 70 pounds. Like I was just a beanpole. So it translates into one, I think. And that's coach. So I really enjoyed watching my younger brothers, whether it was you know helping with their baseball teams and being like the third base coach and the kid that was always keeping score for their teams.And then we had a youth foundation right down the Hill from my house and I became the floor hockey coach and volunteer the month down there. And I just was found that I love to leave and I didn't really realize it. And there were times where, you know, stupid kid stuff. And I remember a guidance counselor pulled me in probably about six or seventh grade.And he said, you know you're a leader. Don't be following the other kids. I always thought maybe it's bull crap. But the more that I look back on that. I don't know what it was, if that was just the line he gives to everybody or if he actually really saw something in me, but I was, I always have to be the one that kinda was the leader or kind of, and I didn't realize that.And I think as I got older you find that out with your friends too, like, you know, you have a certain group of friends and each one has, and I was you know, one of the ones that was always, coming up with something to do or go somewhere and I just enjoyed. being part of sports that actually felt like I was, I was good at something.When the other kids didn't have practices and we'd win the championships and everyone wanted to be on my four HOckey team. And you know, we'd have pizza parties for, to, for the team when we won. And yeah, all kind of just little things that there was a lot of fun and like, you know, it's really hard to ask kids 16, 17, 18, what do they want to do the rest of their life?I really didn't know. I always thought maybe it was something with sports and I'll never forget. I was sitting at the lunch table in junior year and I said to my buddy, man, I'm making a lot of tips washing cars. And he said, I'm making way more tips delivering pizzza. And that was, I was hooked because I always worked from like, maybe even like 10 or 12 one, I was.Whether it was cutting lawns, lemonade stand, a baseball card show. I didn't just like go in and sell the baseball cards or flip cards. I was actually putting the show on it that same youth foundation I'd find out that for 85 bucks, I could rent the youth foundation out on a Sunday. So once I rent, the space offer for 85 box, we went ahead and I would go to the flea market that I went every week with my mom. She would sell chocolates there and I would go around to the guy selling baseball cards and tell them, Hey, I'm having a show. would you like to buy a table? And then beforeit I'd be putting on these baseball card shows. So I think it was just like, I didn't realize that I was had entrepreneurial spirit in me. But, my uncle was a butcher, always had his own business and they had a gas station and he was kind of like a, so when I really looked up to, and then my other we'll have an awning and a roofing company.AndI just think that it somewhere in me. It was I always looked up to people who had their own businessreally thoughthat was something.George: Yeah, man, I was riding my bike in the woods. And you were taking over trade shows at like your local center to be an entrepreneur. Like I I'm like sitting here. I'm like, man, I got such a late start hearing you, but I love it. What do you think it was like, um, you know, basically like for me, when I hear you talk about leadership and like. You know, when you talk about like you were coaching your brothers and then you were having them practice when others weren't like, it sounds like you really understood, like, okay, we put in the work, we're going to have success.Like it's inevitable, but also like, there's this piece of me that feels like you just really love people. Like you like love finding the best in people and bringing the best out of people. Is that kind of like, what kept you going? Like, I, I just can't imagine it like 14 years old being like, Oh, well I could go to a baseball card show or I can figure out that I can rent the hall for $85, put on my own flip tables and get it going.But it just sounds like every ounce of what you did was you were just like, I know I can do it. I believe in myself. I know it's just a matter of time if I keep going, but. It also sounds like at the core of it, you really just understood that people were at the core of everything that you did. NIck: Well, I think there's a lot of truth to that. And I think the other part was by putting on the shows, I became friends with these 40 year old guys. So, you know, that was really to put a timestamp on it. And it was when the 89 upper deck Griffey Jr's came out. And so it was right around that like real big baseball card, crazy. And. And, um, you know, I guess side note, I think it's so awesome to partner to come back and, you know, Gary V's pushing them.So I think it's pretty cool that you're seeing baseball cards and everything come back around. But at that time I became friends with these older guys. So it was like they were giving me deals and I was able, none of that was putting on the shows. Like I was like almost they're equal. Sowere hooking me up in my car I was getting great cards and it just worked. I think it worked really good. There's a certain point where yes. You know, um, Everything's about people. It doesn't matter from the pizza business or whatever it is, you're in the people business. And I guess I always go to certain things that you hear throughout your life the golden rule and treat others how you want to be treated.And I always say there's reasons that you hear these things all the time and it's because they're true. You don't just hear these things all the time because your grandma liked to repeat them. Like there's a lot of things that are just true. And I think the other part thatsome of it's how you're wired and that's the self awareness and getting into knowing yourself.But I definitely am one of those people that I'm either all in or all out. Like it doesn't matter what I do. I do it full tilt. I cannot justdo something a little bit. Like I can't, it doesn't matter if I've got a hobby and I'm feeding the birds. I've got the biggest baddest bird feeder. It's just the way how I'm wired. And if I'm in the pizza business, like there's no way I'm going to have just one restaurant. You know, that's a local mom pop shop and there's nothing wrong with that. That's great to be that community one shop, like I'm going to be the destination.I'm going to be the guy that's on the map. I'm going to be going to Italy to compete in competitions. I'm going to be speaking at the competence, speaking at the competitions and the expos. I'm going to write a book about it. Like that's jus the way I'm wired. Goerge: So, yeah. Well, I mean, I think it speaks to the results, but also the practice, just something like the embodiment, right?There's a big difference between being interested in being committed and being interested as a hobby that produces part-time results and being committed. You're like, I'm going to do whatever, like you and I get along great. Like. My wife went to the pet store with my kids to get a hamster and came home with a pet snake. And I was like, Oh geez, here we go. And then I was like a week later, I'm like a professional herpetologist, right? Like I'm like their humidity. This is their feeding schedule. Their cages needs look like this. This is how we take care of them. Now, a month later we have three snakes and I'm like, literally like the snake whisper. My wife's like, you're obsess about this. Like, no. Well, if we're going to have them. We're going to have them perfect. They're going to have everything they need. I'm going to know everything about, I'm going to make sure they get taken care of like you and you. And I would be dangerous in a business together because it really, I feel the same way. But I also feel like that's one of the thing that's missing in today's market. Like, I feel like there's a lot of businesses. There's a lot of internet marketing. There's a lot of, you know, everyone's like, Oh, it's so easy here. Go buy this, go buy this. But if you're not all the way in, like self-aware of like who you are and what you want to do. And then having that to go find your customers, know how to support them, know how to serve them and then apply that in your business, like it can't work. And like, I, and I'm going to give you kudos. Like you went into one of those hardest businesses that there is like not only the restaurant business, but the low margin restaurant business. That really isn't like something that was like going out for this Michelin star pizza. It's like a hobby and it's a consumable, but it's a hard industry. Like I grew up working in pizza shops and all I have left to show for it is still the burns of my arm. Cause my armor gets stuck to the top of the oven, like once a month. Cause I wasn't paying attention, but. You know what I love about that. And I want to transition this cause now you own what?Five locations, five or six? Nick: We all do have five kind of mixed the six one. We were going to do one in April. And when Covid came on strong and March, I just could not pull the trigger for a 7,000 square foot restaurant. And I'll tell you what, it was super hard decision because I'm just like you, everything. I just said, I'm always full steam ahead. Like. Man. I was like, am I being lazy? Am I being paranoid? Am I like taking the risk? And I was like, no, I think I'm actually being a little smart here, you know? But that was tough, but yeah, I have, I have five. we're going to celebrate our eighth year, um, coming up here in September and we're going to do roughly,right around $10 million in pizzas this year. Wow. Over by stores. George: That's amazing. And so you started. You went from, okay, I'm a coach to hosting pizza parties, which I love that was just the seed you need. I have a feeling you've loved pizza your whole life, basically. Yeah. Okay. And then you went from that to like your buddies, like I'm making way more tips as a piece of delivery driver, which, by the way, I was a pizza delivery driver and I made a boatload of tips cause I treated people good. And then you're like, okay.Yeah. I want to buy this restaurant. You learned your lesson and you lost the partner. Which was a gift. Like you molded that one out and then you took off. And then what was that like first year? Like that first two years, because you had one and then what was that journey like to go from like, okay, I'm financing this pizza shop to, I have to flip this thing around. I have to make it profitable. Then I have to expand. Like, what was that journey like? Nick: Well the journey really starte a lot younger and a lot longer than when I opened it. When we bought the business, I was 34. Just to give you an idea. my wife and I, we just celebrated 20 anniversary. And so we have a 20year old and 18 year old. So really when I was 21, 22, you know, father when we found out we're going to have our daughter as like in seven and a quarter an hour andwhy wait, so what are we going to do? And I said, well, we get married, get a house, you know, okay, it's a deal.And a man the next 14 years, I just really grinded. And people use that word all the time and, and I, I think I used that word before. It was cool. Like I was 80, 90 hours a week. Literally five jobs all in the same week. And, and it wasn't like side jobs. It was like straight on like full time mailman at the post office where I always say dreams go to die. And then full time at Papa John's being the general manager. I was I'm delivering it to other pizza shops. I was counting the money at the civic reader where the Pittsburgh penguins played at night. And man, I just everything I could have a normal family, you know? Yeah. And,try and raise two kids without a college degree.And I think I always was that guy and all the differentDomino's Papa John's that I worked at, they would go in and build the sales. I learned at a very young age. A manager was going to go ahead and,ire, I made the supervisor because my walls were dirty. The album was dirty and I was working 80, 90 hours a week.And we went out to a meeting in a, because that's where the other eight franchise stores were. And there was four in Pittsburgh. So every month we, you drive out to Ohio, me and three other general managers were all older than me. We would get out there. Everybody would always go ahead and go clap for whoever had the highest sales.So they'd be like, Hey, art, Nashville is up 10% clap for him. Next meeting Joe, and Youngstown's up 10% clap for him. When I heard it was going to fire me. I was like, you know what? Sales fixes everything. And I was like 22 years old and I read a guerrilla marketing, went to borders when there was a border, but guerrilla marketing right in front of the back.I can't say there's anything in there that like stood out to me besides the concept that you have to get out of your comfort zone. You have to get out of your space and go and get the sales and not wait for them to come to you. Next meeting everyone clap. Nick's up 10% next meeting. I'm ready. Clap for Nikki's up 20% next meeting Nick's up 45%. Nick tell everybody what you were doing. And what I was doing was that what the school board and I sold them on selling pizzas for school lunches. I went to the school board and being in the football stadium and the baskets.Cool sling contracts. So it was like, you know, I build myself up as a sales builder, so I always could make money for everybody else. And I think there was a certain point where, um, I guess, I guess the other part of the story, you know, real, real big part was, you know, that's probably like 22, 23, 24, 25. So right around there, dominoes picked me off and they moved me across the state to Wilksbear.And when I got out the Wilksbear was same thing. They put me in a store that was doing 15 grand. I took it to 25 grand within a year. And, know, the kids were maybe like four and two at the time or five and three,just to get an idea, it's still in Pitt, still in Pennsylvania, but it's like five hours away.It might as well be in another state. And our family's always been real close. So, you know, my wife was took her away from her family and were on the other side. And I always say we moved back again because we were homesick, but the truth was how I told you thateverything I do that I do full tiltI have become a horrible drug addict and a worse, alcoholic.And you know, probably about 28 years old at that time. And I can say October would be 15 years clean and sober for me. No drugs, no alcohol. And what it was was, you know, she said, look, I'm going home. I don't care if you come with me or not. And I went ahead and I, I quit my job. She took the car back and the car and the phone.no kids, no wife's. And just the next day, I really, I reached down for the toilet papers and the toilet paper, and I said, you know what, I got nothing and I just hit my knees. And if you're real helped me. That was it. That was my moment. That everything changed. And, I just realized that when I came back when my mother in law had said, Hey, my there's some counseling at church.And, that will that do, my wife needs counseling, but really I needed the counseling and the counselor said, look, if you've got you've got to take your drugs and alcohol serious and go to at least a class about it. And I was like, wow, don't have a problem. And I went and done, man, that was it.That was like where my life started, really for me and then after that everybody always talked about here was this pizza guy and family, friends. Everyone was like, you need to get a real job. That's what I kept hearing. So I did, I'm sorry, radio advertising. I asked my favorite interview question of all time.When they're done this, a tip for anybody out there, Rick, right at the end, when they say, do you have any more questions? The best question to ask is there any reason you wouldn't hire me? And they said, because you never sold anything. And I told them about all the contracts with pizza and everything else.And they went ahead they hired me and I sold radio for the next six months and I hated it. Anyone cool itself, more power to you? I can not just walk into place and try and sell him something, not for me. Um, then I started delivering pizzas six months in and, you know, um, I was delivering pizzas.I was working all the different jobs like I was saying. And then really what happened was, is I kept hearing this real job thing. I bought about a very nice house for 170,000. Well showing my income of all the pizzas that I delivered in all my time. . So, you know, bottle off of that, I'm still with friends and family.It was like, Oh, he must be selling drugs. And he bought a house, but he was like, no, I really was, you know, I was turning my life around at that point. It was like two years into being sober. And, um, you know, I got a job at the post office cause everyone's like, Oh, you need a real job. And like I said, when I went to the post office and I looked around and I was like, you know what this is where dreams go to die, come here. And they say, we're going to work here in the next 40 years and that's it, they're gonna retire. And then really, you know, side note because everything that's going on with the post office in the news, you know, just a fact when you become a full time post office employee, the government has to back that retirement for the next, however long you're going to be at the post office until you're 65. They pay for your pension all at once. So that's why they're bankrupt. They won't tell you that on TV. The reason is because they didn't want to start here. They pay their next 40 years of pay is already in the retirement paid for. So it's like, you know what? That just tells you like that for dream to gets die.As soon as I went there, I was like, you know what, I'm going to own my own business. I don't know why it's pizza that I'm good at, but that's what I'm good at. And I love it. So I'm going to figure out how to do it myself.So that's the journey before the journey. So to answer your question and I will well ramble as long, but the, what happened was, is then that the time to figure out how to open a restaurant, I just walked in the pizza shops, once the partner said, Hey, I'm going to max out my credit cards andlet's do this thing. I, we were in the city of Pittsburgh, right by where university of pity is. And I would walk in and say some of your pizza shop and these old guys, like get the hell out of here. The fifth guy walked into so my buddy has a shot for sale in Bloomfield, which is over the bridge from university of Pitt.Still, you can deliver it. I walked in and I said, Oh my God, it's a bar. No, I walked the back full pizza, kitchen, everything, and we need, and all the numbers line up and everything. I like to say for the next six months, I kept saying all I wanted was the pizza shop. The key moment there was, I said to my wife, or she said to me, are you going to be okay?Because at that point I wouldn't even go to the liquor store for her. I was seven years sober. I wouldn't, even if she wanted a bottle of wine, she knew not to ask me. And I said, you know what? This is a means to the end. And I asked my partner, you're going to be okay because he had a alcohol addiction, but he never reallyexpanded on or got help for it.And he said, Maybe, and that should have been assigned because it was terrible to see. You know it was the one guy that like really believed in me and not to be put his money where his mouth is. I really wanted it to work. It was a really to see how it went. That was really the struggle.And then I think the other part was, it just was, to anybody that's envisioning in the very beginning, usually I just have to do something every single day. That's that's what you have to do. I'll show you this right here. See the elephant one bite at a time. That's the elephan and that's why it's up there.That's the way I approach business every single day wasjust a little bit, what can I do today? So that, so when I leave tonight, it won't be the same as when came the day before. And every day I did that. And if you have that mentality, that every day you're changing stuff, when you look back in a year, you're like, Oh my gosh, like I built this awesome place, everything's different. Yeah. But you know, yeah. That's the way you have to approach it. That's how I approached it. Yeah, man. George: There's so much gold in there. I mean, there's so much to unpack. I mean, like you were working at Papa John's and then you read a book on guerrilla marketing. Seth Godin is a coauthor that book and You're like, it wasn't anything, but it shifted your perspective. You're like, I'm going to find opportunity or I'm gonna make opportunity. Right. And then it's like boom. And then it comes up. And there's a lot of gold there and it's kinda be that like Pittsburgh, like blue collar thing. Like you guys are like the hardest workers, like I ever seen in my life, like ever.And I love it. And the pride that comes into it, but like what you just shared. I think is probably one of the biggest challenges that I see in today's day and age. Like, I was lucky that I was like on deployment when the internet got popular. Like they couldn't have a Facebook account. I didn't get in trained in social media. I was just doing hard labor in the middle of the desert, but like now, I have to remind myself daily, like just one more thing, one more step back basics, like do this thing. And like there's so much gold in that to where I think now we look at marketing sales business and it's like, we live in this delusion that it's like, I'm going to have a unicorn tomorrow, or it's going to build itself. Or it's kind of convert itself or it's going to figure itself out and like what you just said, like every single day, like just do one thing that makes it better. One thing that moves it forward, one more email, one more post, one more phone call. Like man, like I love that. Like, it there's so much gold wrapped up in that simplicity of it. I just, I absolutely love it. Now you went from that one. And then how long did you have that one before you expanded? Nick: Well, I had three goals when I took over the store in the very beginning, you know, it was very simple. Number one, to buy a car in this century, cause I was the King of $500 cars. So I won a car in the century. Second goal was, I want a little bigger house, that was, you know what, we want to win a little bigger house. And then the third one was, I want to know how I was going to pay for my kid's college because they were12 and 10 at the time. And I didn't have a single penny saved. And it was important for me to be able to do that for them. So really a year in, I was like, man, I'm going to have all these goals accomplished. Like I can see the light in the tunnel. I was like, well, well now what is that really? How I'm going to judge my success? And I said, you know what?It's not. When I can create an environment that the people who work for me can accomplish, there are three goals from working for me. Then I could feel successful. So that's what's fueled the expansion. So I was like, we have to go open another store. So, and we werea bout two years in, it was 25 months.We opened the first one in September, the second one, two years later in October. And then, the third one was 16 months after that. And then the the fourth one was, um, about the. Well, 18 months after that. And then yeah, one was a year after the first or the fourth one. So it was like every year and a half, we were over and stores pretty much.And same reason every time, when I got to the second one, I still was like, I really, I didn't need to open more stores we've created a lot of career positions. We have over about roughly 200 employees, definitely before COVID, we still have bartenders and servers not working at the moment. We're somewhere between the one 50 and 200 brands of employees we've created great Christmas parties and holiday parties and summer picnics. And a place where people want to work andpromotions, we make a big deal of, and we just really love our people. That's what it's all about. And I think I just wanted to create an environment that somebody would actually like to work there and that's kind of what we've created.George: Yeah, man. I mean like you literally, like, I hear my heart gets so happy hearing you talk about this. Like, I feel like as an entrepreneur, my biggest struggle for years was, is I didn't know where I wanted to go or where I was going. Like, I didn't have a goal. I didn't have a direction. Like I had a why. I want to break my pattern. I don't want to end up in the abuse cycle an addict anymore. Cause I've been through 12 step meetings and like, I want it to break it all. But there was still this level of like aimless. And I always tell people yeah. To have a why greater than yourself and you know, what it was for me, it was my children like that.Oh, was it? It was like I don't have a choice any more, like I have to do it. You know, you said that. And then the one thing that like, I want to highlight that you said that is so powerful. Well, and literally the secret to every business success. And like, you need to make this a tweetable. You're like, it wasn't enough to accomplish my goals. Your measuring stick was when the people who work for me accomplish their goals. That's how you knew that you made it, like that's what you were working towards. Like that is the secret to every single business success that it's there, empowering the people to achieve their goals, having a why, a business greater than yourself. Like that just speaks to your character and like what you've done. Like I'm not, I'm surprised you don't have 85 restaurants and 8,000 employees at this point. It's a very, very grounded noble amazing thing to do in everybody should carry through. And I was like, yep. This is the people guide like all day.I love it. I love it. And I also want to talk about though or something I heard you talk about. And I think this was when you opened your first pizza shop, right? So we hit your people. We hit your clarity, but like, Some of the stuff that you did in marketing when you were making an improvement every day, like, what is this concept of like hot selling, right?Like you had pizzas, but instead of waiting for somebody to order a pizza or buy a pizza, you would make like 90 pizzas and you would send your drivers out and have them sell the pizzas. Like you made them like mini pizza hustlers, right? Nick: So basically what I did was I needed to raise the sales and what I decided to do was. I called out back and I said, Hey, can I get some steak dinners for my guy? Some gift cards, I'll trade you pizzas. They said sure. And I told my guys, I was like, Hey, if you sell all your pizzas that I give you this week, I'm going to give you a top of your pay and, everything. You're going to get a steak dinner. So for every time you sell all your pizzas. So we basically have three drivers coming in the morning, give him 30 pizzas. Each back then pizzas were six bucks for 14 inch pizza store kept five. They kept one. And they would go to big box stores, construction anybody on the side, the road, local businesses anywhere where there was people when they'd sell pepperoni and cheese pizzas for six bucks a piece and we'd sell 90 a day without the phone ever ringing. And we did this for years. It really, the only place that it stopped working was this was great in the suburbs. But when I got a hold of some city stores, there was a lot of permits about how you can sell food in the city. Man we'd hustle. You'd walk into Walmart andthey'd buy it for the staff and everything else.And we were'nt selling 90 pizzas a day for a long time that nobody ever ordered. And then I think that's going back to where the sales fixes, everything, there was so much that yeah, I learned at a young age with marketing and all always go back to. Sometimes in school you pick up something that you didn't even realize you picked up and you know what it was an English class in sixth grade, we had to write a fan letters and you had to write them to 20 people. And so we wrote them to 20 people and know movie stars and such like that. Everybody get a couple of letters back that, I remember getting one back from the wonder years from Fred Savage rope hump, you know be cool when I decided to do of course, cause it can't do just a little, anything, you know, just a little bit.I wrote every single baseball team. Hey, I'm, I'm your favorite? The New York Yankees. I'm the favorite fan of them? Boston Red Fox. I'm the whatever. Before you know it all summer long, I'm getting all this cool shit in the mailbox every single day, you know, hats and a baseball bats, authograph and I mean, it was awesome.And what I learned later on was that's kind marketing. Like if you're putting yourself out there. Sure. Maybe teams like the Baltimore girls didn't send me anything. But the Yankee sent me, a ball signed by like 10 people, you know, and then maybe the Royals didn't send me anything, but the twins sent me, this hat and scarf and winter jacket and shit like, you know, so it gave me an idea, like if you're out there, when I got in business, you can, don't worry about the no just keep going for the yes. Just keep going, just keep going. And that's what I would do. And I think it was a lesson at a very young age that I didn't really even catch. Do I have a lot of older that there is there's power in numbers. You know, the more that you're out there doing stuffthe bigger your results are going to be, and it doesn't matter how much you're doing.And then, then somewhere along the line I would say probably when I, after addiction, I really got into personal development, like real big, you know, like, I really liked what you said when we were off air, but, you know, to help with the scars, you know, and that really was, was the truth. I didn't even, I don't think I realized until you said that, but that was probably where to personal development came in.And I read a great book called the sales machine by Chet Holmes. And one of my favorite parts in there was about the dream 100. And what I would do is on the pizza world. We sold extra large pizzas for $8.99, if you had a big order. So I went ahead and made the professor special $8.99 for the order five or more extra large pizzas.I've made that flyer. I shoved that ever under every single door and in every professor mailbox at Carnegie Mellon and the university of Pitt, and we had orders of 20 pizzas, a hundred pizzas, 75 pizzas, 160 pizzas. And I we would come in at nine in the morning, just start stretching pizzas for these giant lunches.And I mean, the professor special was like the biggest. Get the, there was, so there were so many things that I've done marketing. I really feel like on top of being the people person, I've always had a niche for the marketing. And I think that was where my cousin had hair salons and she always believed in me before I opened my own pizza shop.And she said, Nick, you can do it. You know how to market. And that's, you know, a huge part of business, like, and you're good with people. She's like, you've got to do for yourself. Like you'll be successful. And I think I'm. No, that was a lot of it. It's just believing in yourself. George: Well, totally. I mean like this whole episodes so far, like when you really think about it, like, what you're talking about is like, you're just a walking marketing example. Like I tell people, my definition of marketing is a two way value based longterm relationship. Like that's it, that's marketing. It's a, I know you, you know me, we have a relationship let's go. And what you just said is something that I think is so prevalent where like you had pizzas, right? I tell people, you can either only innovate on product experience or customer experience.You probably already have the best pizza. You make it the best that you can. The pizza is not going to change. You have to choose change the wrapping paper like that. Professor special is genius. You're like, okay, cool. Well, I'm already doing it. How can I add personalization there? You change the title on a flyer and you slip it under speaking to your avatar. They're like, Oh, I'm a professor. I want five pizzas. Like, I it's like, it's so good. Like, what is your process behind like coming up with some of these ideas? Like, do you just like go meditate, you go for a walk or do they just hit you when they hit you? Do you like. Put it through a process or you're like, you know, this is an idea. I'm just going to try this and see what happens. But like, what's your process behind some of your crazy marketing stuff. Like, cause obviously you have the results to prove it, but I know you probably have thousands of ideas a dayNick: So there's a couple of different methods, you know, I'll be the first to say that if you see somebody else doing something that worksyou should probably try and do it too.Especially this day and age with the internet, you could see all over. People in different markets doing different things. So especially if you've got a business zone in like pizza business, I've got, you know, I don't know, 500 to 1000 pizza friends all across the country. And, you know, with COVID, I would see so many good ideas that the pizza operators were doing during Covid and we would take that idea and just make our own. We went ahead and started doing pizza kids during COVID. And I would imagine at this point, you probably have seen him where somebody. Saying, Hey, we're going to give you a no sauce, cheese and pepperoni, and you can take it home for 10 bucks and make it, make it a your place. Just different ideas that like those, like some we do copy, you know, we make, we make our own, but we take the idea and run with it. I think the other one is sometimes there's a, there's a need, you know, maybe we're sitting around like, okay, I'm salesmen down a little bit. Um, great example would be the last couple of weeks.This is perfect. This exact, what you're talking about. And we're, we're down a little bit because they shut down the restaurant completely. The governor did. And then they opened it up to 25% capacity to borrow the restaurant. So we just decided, Hey, we're gonna keep the restaurants close just to pick up and delivery. And I'm like, man, we're done a little bit. How can we pump something up? You know, what can we do? And we just want people to be talking about us. Cause that's what a lot of marketing is to you want people talking about you? How can we do that? And I said, okay, we're turning eight next, next month. You know, we're, we're going to have an eight year anniversary. I said let's give away eight free pizzas for a year. And then, then we can send the press releases. We can have a contest, we can, you know, put it all over social media that we're giving away eight free pizzas. We're turning eight years old and I'm not just ate three pizzas, but free pizza for a year.Like, like let's enough to break your fast. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take it. Right. So, so that was the idea that we came up with two weeks ago and then we put it into motion, like right then and there. So I think you know, and now if we go on website and everything, it's everywhere about free pizza for a year, you know, your chance to win, enter, and win.But I think To answer your question that sometimes it comes out of neat. Sometimes it comes out of watching what other people do. And then I also think that there's a certain point where the, the mindset, the them meditating you know, I'm really big into, The book that changed everything for me, they went from five jobs to where I am now is think and grow rich book. And that's it just the mindset of, you know, not focusing on what you don't have, but focusing on what, what you do have or what you, you want to have and feeling it and touching it like you already have it now. And then that's kind of where some of those great ideas come in is like, You know, I wake up in the morning or wake up at three in the morning.I pen and pad next to my bed every night. And I'm just like, Oh, that's a great idea. If I wake up in the morning, little groggy and go through my gratitude, go to get up. I look over. I'm like, Oh cool. I had a great idea last night. Like there's a lot of things that like when you get into it, your subconscious there's a lot of things that you don't even realize are running through your mind and like ideas just pop up on no code.And what I've learned is not the question, the ideas. But to try them out and try them outfull, full tilt. And then I really am surprised sometimes when we try something out, I'm like, wow, that was like, well, totally. George: I mean, like I'll use a Pittsburgh story. Like Vince Papale if he never went and tried out, he never would have been on the team, like never would have happened, like with the Eagles and all the football story. Like. You know what you nailed. Like, I call it those ideas. I call it intuition. Like when you give yourself the space, like you have wisdom, like you have clarity when you're not clouded by all that stuff. And, you know, to tie it back to what you said earlier, Really your belief in itself. It's not a belief in that it will work or won't work.That's not what matters. It's not about the finish line. Like I believe in self that I can try this, that I can put this in. I'm going to give it the licks. I'm going to give it the chance to win. Like if you give something oxygen. It's bound to work. But what I love is that you're not like I'm changing my whole business model.I'm changing the recipe of the pizza. You're like, no, no, I have that. That's my control. I'm going to try this. I'm going to try to get more attention. I'm going to try to. Innovate on the experience. I'm going to get it in the hands of more people. Like I, I absolutely love it. And for those of you listening, if you haven't read, think and grow rich by Napoleon Hill, please do there's another thing on audible, you might enjoy.Um, they have his on, uh, his recorded lectures that weren't released in a book, but you can buy them on audible and it's all of his lectures, like when he was doing them in person. I think they're actually really, they're really good lessons for me after listening to both of them. And so the eight pizzas for a year thing is that you're giving away. A pizza for a year to eight different people. Nick: Yeah. So basically the way it works is, um, the IRS is after 600 bucks, you've got to show it on your taxes. So we're giving a $599 and 99 cent gift card to eight different guys, and they can use it any way they want over the next year. That's kind of how we're doing it. You know, that's, that's the part of marketing, you know, another, I love that you love. The, the idea and the uniqueness marketing. So I'm going to give you another one of my favorite. You know, if you had to say, what's your top couple of favorite things you've ever done, this is one of my things. We, I have been feeling Facebook marketing since 2013, Facebook marketing so early, like I figured it out that if I had Facebook followers, it would translate into customers and I figured it out, you know, kind of a side story of how I figured that out.But anyway, from figuring that out, The radio station came out and they had a best pizza in Pittsburgh contest and you had to vote online. So I went ahead and I put paid Facebook ads together, got everybody to vote and we finished third, which may sound okay. Well, what would you do with finishing third? And this is where I, this is my favorite part right here. So the first two that won were institutions in Pittsburgh. They were pizza shops that had been around for years and years. And we had only been around maybe, maybe 12 months at this point. And I just took that and spun, as you know, WPXI the radio station named us best new pizza in Pittsburgh.We finished third, nobody told me we were the best new pizza in Pittsburgh, but the first two were there for 50 years. So we were the best new pizza in Pittsburgh and I took that best new pizza Pittsburgh, and I put it everywhere and I mean, I pounded and for a long time, Andthat's where, you know, that was in between store one in store two. And that's probably where the sales, we took from a $4,000 a week store to like a 20, some thousand a week store just in that first year. And a lot of those, you know, that was a huge part of it, but it's like, how do you play the words and marketing? It's so important. George: Well, and, and that's, that's really what it is like. I think, you know, when you think, think about your marketing message, I love that. By the way you think about your marketing message, we're conveying the same message, but sometimes you have to change the order or change the language. Like sometimes it's not received in English, even though we intend it to be.And I think that's why like, Normally it's just like marketing to be successful. It's just communication. That works both ways. Right. And so if you have a marketing message and it's not working, it's not because of your product. Right? Like try something different, change the language, change the positioning, go after a pain point, go after a celebratory thing, you have to know your avatar.You have to know what they respond to. Right. And everyone's like, yeah, Everyone wants to try stuff that's new. And like, in my opinion, you should sure shit nailed it. Cause that literally was the best new pizza in Pittsburgh. Right? Like it's, it's awesome. The way that you spell it. That's amazing. I love your marketing brain by the way. I absolutely love how well you think about it and those ideas. Now, when you think about, because what I think is interesting is too, is that. You know, I talk a lot about product experience, customer experience, and I've helped local businesses, but I still, I do a lot of stuff online. So when you think about your restaurants though, like knowing your marketing brain, knowing your people brain, like how do you think through customer experience? Like when you think through somebody comes into the store, what do I want them to feel? Somebody orders, delivery, like, do you do anything I don't need to ask? Do you, I know you do everything. For customer experience, but like, what are some of the things you do for customer experience, both like in store, in delivery intake, and then like with your marketing and messaging to have that experience with your store.So I think what's unique about everything that you said was, you know, I was a pickup and delivery pizza shop guy when I bought the restaurant and I'll never forget the very first day when I came out and there was a table with 12 and we were trying to figure out how to bring all the food out at once, how to wash the silverware.I'm like, Holy shit. I just bought a restaurant. Like, so it, I, I got to say man, we were really good at the message with the sales and marketing. But man, we struggled with the service in the restaurant, you know the little things like we didn't have a host this one week open, so somebody would stand at the door for 15 minutes, get pissed off and nobody came up to him and left, you know, they'd finished your meal.And we weren't coaching the waitresses to go and grab their glasses, you know, quicker, get the refills quick enough offer, put their bill down at the end, like right away. Like not, um, you know, wait to put your bill down. Like it's okay to put it down a little bit. Hey, we're not rushing you, but here's your bill and your check if you need it, you know, like, and then checking back to see if it was there.Like we didn't know how to coach any of that stuff. So, you know, I always try to do that. The, the smartest thing I can is if I don't know something, hire somebody who does. You know, that's, that's my approach. So I brought in a great restaurant guy. Who's been with me six years now. He was a brew master, a bartender, a front of the house through and through he's now my beverage director for the whole company.He just came in as like my first bar manager, my first like real, uh, Haas, um, hospitality type guy. Andyou know, he helped us and I read a ton of books and I watched. A ton of bar rescue, and I don't care what anybody says about the yelling and screaming number of rescue, but there's a lot of great stuff in there.And I just really, you know, warmed it as like, I have to learn how, how this all works. So I thinkyou know, now we really try to just make sure that it's every touch restaurant somebody's there to meet, you know, and that, that's what a lot of it is that when somebody comes in the hostess is, you know, eye contact and a smile and, you know, That's what we try to preach is, a lot of it is about the smile, you know,to serve the best pizza we possibly can and serve with a smile.Like, you know, that, um, that's a lot of, a lot of what we try to do. We, we have a ton of meetings first Tuesday of every month is all the managers. Third, Tuesday of the month is upper management meetings. Every single Monday is all the general managers on a phone call. Um, zooms, a little too crazy for us, but we do the phone call meetings and, you know, we go through all the numbers every Monday.And then the, the first Tuesday of the month with all the managers, we're talking about everything that what worked the month before what's coming on new. And then the upper management meeting is like our brainstorm, Hey, round table. What do you guys need? What do you think we should be doing? Where, you know, here's the direction I'm thinking, what are you, how can we get there? And you know, a lot of it is just the communication ofhow to achieve these things. But I think that's just kinda how it all wraps up. You know, that that's a lot. George: Yeah. I think what you nail and I'm going to just, you know, disseminate this down is that when you've nailed culture, right? Like your customer culture, like everyone has a touch point. They have eye contact, they feel seen, they feel heard, they feel respected. They feel a part of the family. And then you foster an environment where your managers and your team members are open. It's not a dictatorship, it's a two way relationship.What can we do to get better? What do you need? How can we support you? Knowing that the undertow is you're like my job is to help my employees achieve their goals. And then they have the platform and the, and be like, Hey, Nick, we need to do this. We do this. Can we have this? And you guys foster this growth. And I think really like what I hear that I think is so important for her to take away is that. You never settle. Like there's not a day where you're like, we've made it right. Like we have it all figured out. You're like, Oh, what can I read? What can I do? How can I tweak it? How can I improve it? Hey, maybe I read something that I might want to do.I don't need it now, but I know it's a possibility. It changes the way. I think, like what I love that I hear in everything you say is that. Your a perpetual student in the business and your focus is improving on your product, your experience, your customers, your team, and you're like willing to do whatever it takes to learn that, to figure it out, right?Like the game is the game is your finish line. You're playing it, you're playing it and you're playing it. And I don't know. I just think that's such a novel thing. I, and I have no. No shock in my body as to why you are where you are and why you do what you do. I mean, it's apparent how much you love people and how that comes up.I actually can't wait to fly to Pittsburgh and taste your pizza. I bet you, I bet you every customer, I bet you have testimonials left and right where they're like. I can feel the family in this pizza. It feels like love with every bite. Like it, you get that when you foster that culture and that's so important in everything that you do. I absolutely love it. So I forget to do that every time, by the way. I always want to tell people to be getting where to find you. So I can say it multiple times and use some NLP, but I completely forgot at the beginning. I was so excited talking about pizza. So perfectly listening. Yeah. Uh, before we get into another question, Nick has an awesome podcast. It's called the business equation podcast. He also wrote a book called the pizza equation, you know, like the world champion pizza team, everything like that. But, um, the best place to find Nick of course hit up his podcast on iTunes and Apple, but his website is www.NickBogacz.com. And I wanted to say it now, cause we're going to say it again at the end, but I want to make sure you guys hear it once. Write that one down. It's I bet you, if you Google him, he's the only one you'll find. So Google would be your friend in this one, Nick Bogacz. I bet you can write like Nick B pizza world champion and find them too.But I want to, I want to close Nick with, with something we're going to end up having to do round two of this podcast. Cause I just want to rip your marketing brain out and give it. People multiple disseminations of it, but I have a, I have a question that's not about marketing, so there's a whole lot of people that have been home and cooped up for a couple of months. What are your best tips to making pizza at home? Nick: Awesome. Yeah. Very good question. So I think it's really kind of caught fire lately. I think, you know, people are really. The grills have been really popular for for years. And I think then, you know, everybody was smoking everything for awhile, and I think you are starting to see a lot of home pizza chefs right now.And I can tell you some really simpletips, you know, you could go and find a great friend of mine is Tony Gemini. And he has a book called the pizza Bible. And if you want to know how to make any stop pizza at home, that's the book to bu. And then the secret that I will add to that is. When you make the dough. I think a lot of times people think you can make the dough in the morning and you can make the pizza at night. And a secret that I'll tell you is when you make the pizza during the day, that though rest in your, in your refrigerator for about the next three days. So on Monday, you can cook the dough on Wednesday or Thursday.At least two days, but really if you made it on Monday and cook, then on Thursday, your dose is going to be fantastic. That real nice bready, you know, won't be doing any Walton gets under Coke. It's just going to be a great bread flavor. So . Well, a lot of it's about dough, and a lot of it is, uh, you know, having the time for the no to really rise.And you know, it's funny, you said that, but being cooped up and everything, I went ahead andlast year we were in Naples, Italy for a competition. And, you know, the birthplace of pizza everywhere had the beautiful, gorgeous Naples ovens, you know, the Neapolitan style. And man,I need one of those. Like I never thought that I needed to make pizzas at home, like as much, but like, like I, I just felt like I was something that I saw that I needed.So early, early June, I went ahead and got a Neapolitan pizza oven. Put in and I'm in the backyard and it has just been the greatest gift. During COVID you know, whether it's just myself and our family cooking on it, or we do actually have not a gathering, but, you know,, my parents are come over, you know, the laws or something, a few people, and we just make some fantastic pizzas there, but. It's all about the dough. And I think you can use anything out of your kitchen as far as sauce and cheese, it's all preferred on your taste, but you really want to make a great, great dough, check out the pizza Bible and then give it enough time to rest. George: I love it. I love it. Learning how to make pizza. I used to, by the way, I used to be a food blogger and I wrote a New York times bestselling cookbook.That was where I started in this whole game. Well, we'll have to cover that in another one, cause I really hate cooking by the way. But it was, it's a really interesting story, but all of that and by the way, I've smoked pizza on my smoker and that's really good as well. But that dough, that Dough tip is, is legit. And there's lessons in that for entrepreneurs patients, you got to let things marinate. You got to let them live. You got to let them breathe. You gotta give them a chance to taste good. And I think that sums up this entire episode. So Nick, I'm going to give you a minute at the end, any closing words, any parting words of advice for everybody listening though?Make sure you go check out Nick, check out his podcast. I've listened to a couple episodes. I think they're great. He's had a few of my friends on and the website. I'm going to spell it again because I would need to hear it a few times for myself. So it's NickBogacz.com you can pick up his book, the pizza equation, which talks about like running a successful pizza enterprise. And I'm sure there's some nuggets. In there for business and marketing and mindset, then you have as podcast, which is the business equation podcast. And then you have Nick, the man himself, Leo checking out the website. So Nick, before we wrap any closing words for everybody, any words of wisdom, anything you want everybody to take away?Nick: You know, I think you could start anywhere that that's the thing, right? Like don't let your past to find you if, you know, if people, your listeners, if they're listening to George right now, they want fat, you know, and you're, you're doing a great job feeding them. And I think. you know, wherever they are, they can start. So, you know, today could be the first day of your new journey and don't let your past define you. And I think that's where a lot of people just get hung up thinking about every failure that they have and every thing that happened to them and everything they went through. And just, just remember that everybody starts up.Start somewhere. And I love when you start reading about, um, you know, whether it's actors or entrepreneurs or, or, um, you know, anybody that started their career late, you know, and everyone will talk guy. I think my favorite one is probably Colonel Sanders, you know, started KFC when he was like 60. Like, you know, it doesn't matter how old you are, you know, you can, you can start today. And I think that's that's a good message to bring out there is, you know, believe in yourself and, and anybody can start from anything. George: Yeah, man, I love it. I can't even, I'm not going to add anything to that. I think that's so gold. And like you are a walking example of that, like set your focus and just start and go.And you'll figure it out as you go, you'll make adjustments and learn. So, man, it was an absolute honor and pleasure. I know we have many more in the can in the future. We'll, we'll be breaking pizza as soon as I start traveling again. And I can't wait to share. And so thank you so much for being here for everybody listening.Make sure you go check out Nick, check out his podcast, check out his book. And remember, I I'm sure I'm going to do an outro if I remember to do them, but if not remember that relationships, I always beat algorithms. Make sure you subscribe. Make sure you review. And I will see you guys in the next episode.
Who's Nick?You gotta listen to find out. Today we talk about what ruins a song for you? Is it cheesy, forced lyrics? Is it a chance in tempo thats unexpected? Is it cowbell? If it is cowbell, stop listening immediately and don't let the door hit ya on the way out cause that's some shit.We get into who write the worst lyrics, Misty dislike for Weezer, Ike's love of a proper drum fill and what Nick thinks of build ups in the beginning of songs that just go on and on and on and on and on and on....Nick gives us a few life hacks on how to get booze easier at a music festival and Misty dreams about the day we can all drink lukewarm beer again while eating eggs at brunch at The Federal- the last "show" the three of them saw before Lockdown. There's also a game of Inception that we play towards the end that might actually blow your brain into another dimension.
Creating a strong following isn’t easy in a social media world where everyone calls themselves influencers. Without the right tools and fortitude, you can fall short in your niche market. Meet Nick Quintero, the founder of Meal Prep on Fleek. He has employed some savage strategies that started from an idea in 2015 that organically drew 100,000 followers within one year. He currently has several accounts, one of which almost has half a million followers. Grab a pen and paper because this episode will equip you with a plan of action to launch your social media presence. Here are a couple of the takeaways: Build relationships with your markets authorities to gain recognitionUse the power of your niche community Value Bombs: “Have flexibility to change up the brand’s messaging and personality type” - Nick “You dont test what works, you test your hypothesis to see what gets you to the number that you want. ” - Nick “The best way to be recognized as an expert is by leveraging the authority of other experts” - Jeff Subscribe Apple | Google | Spotify | Stitcher Segment Timestamps/ Episode Highlights: [01:12] Introducing Nick [04:33] Preparation meets opportunity is luck. [7:03] How to use relationship-building principles to connect with writers and contributors in your niche. [13:43] Evolve your brand so it can result in 100,000+ followers. [18:43] Test content to see what the algorithms favor for each platform. [21:08] The first steps to becoming an influencer include listening, replicating or commenting on niche authority’s content. Savage Marketer Resources Follow our guest Nick Quintero on Instagram!Join our Community for updates. Check out more savage marketer podcasts Here!
Last week we covered the basics of the traditional IRA and today we will shift our focus to the Roth IRA. John and Nick will once again explain the basics to this investment vehicle. We will also compare and contrast the Roth IRA to the traditional IRA.Helpful Information:PFG Website: https://www.pfgprivatewealth.com/Contact: 813-286-7776Email: info@pfgprivatewealth.comFor a transcript of today's show, visit the blog related to this episode at https://www.pfgprivatewealth.com/podcast/Transcript of Today's Show:----more----Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Welcome back in to Retirement Planning Redefined. Thanks for tuning into the podcast. We appreciate it. Maybe you've received this podcast through the team's newsletters or email blast. Or maybe you found us online on various different podcast outlets like Apple or Google or Spotify. Either way we appreciate your time. And we're going to spend a few minutes with John and Nick talking some more about IRAs. And this go round we're going to spend some time on the Roths. But first guys, what's going on? How are you?John: I'm good. So my one year old is sleeping through the night very well, so I feel like a new man.Speaker 1: That goes a long way that's for sure. Well kudos on that. And Nick, how you doing, buddy?Nick: I'm pretty good. My 15 year old dog is not sleeping through the night.I'm okay.Speaker 1: Yeah, getting up there. I've got a 13 year old dog and she's a pistol. I got a 22 year old daughter and I can't tell which one's a bigger pain in the butt, the dog or the daughter. But they're both doing pretty well. The kid's actually graduating from nuclear engineering school. Actually I get to go see her Friday, and she's now a petty officer. She ranked up in the Navy. So we're all proud of her.Nick: Congrats.Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate that. I'll tell you what, let's not talk about babies, dogs or the Navy for just a minute. Let's talk about the Roth IRAs as I mentioned. So if you happened to catch the last podcast, we wanted to go through and talk about IRAs, about the vehicle. And we spent some time on the traditional side. So guys, do me a favor first, let's just do a recap, a little bit, of the traditional IRA before we switch over to the Roth so people have some context on that.Nick: So one of the biggest benefits for any sort of IRA account are some of the tax benefits. But one of the things that we wanted to remind everybody of, and this helps with IRA accounts, but also just really any investment account. Sometimes the feedback we've gotten is it's helpful for people to think about the different types of accounts in three phases of taxation. There's as the money goes in, is it taxed, is it not taxed. As the money grows, is it taxed, is it not taxed. And then when it comes out so that you can use it, is it taxed or not taxed. So for traditional IRA, you know the first one, as it goes in, in the last session we talked a little bit about it. Most of the time for most people it's not going to be taxed. But there will be some rules on when that's after tax money, it's going to grow tax deferred. So you're not going to get 1099 on it each year as it grows. And then when it comes out, it's going to be ordinary income tax.Nick: And then for the Roth IRA, which is what we're going to get into today, it is money that's already been taxed is going to go in. It's going to grow tax deferred. So [inaudible 00:02:43] 1099s, and then on the backside it's tax free. That's the comparison as you go through.Speaker 1: Okay. Since you brought it up, let's go ahead and just jump right into it. So John, give us a few things to think about on the Roth side. He already mentioned the tax deferred part. What are some other limitations and things of that nature we talked about like with the traditional, some numbers or some things we need to know?John: Yeah, so like the traditional IRA, the contributions are based off of earned income. So again, that does not count real estate state income, any interest, income like that, but earned income. And as far as the limits go, if you're below 50, [inaudible 00:03:20] 6,000. Anyone above 50 can do 1,000 catch-up, which gives you a 7,000 total. And just to again reiterate some mistakes we've seen where you can only contribute 7,000 between the two of you. You can't contribute 7,000 each. Okay, so 7,000 total.John: And something that some people aren't aware of is that even if, let's say one spouse is not working and is staying home for whatever reason. They are eligible to make a spousal contribution to an IRA, whether that's Roth or traditional, which is a nice feature because that does come up quite a bit. So to talk about the contributions of a Roth, we gave the example of traditional IRA as far as making a pre tax contribution. As Nick mentioned, the Roth is after tax dollars. So example of that, 100,000 of income for somebody, they make a $5,000 contribution to a Roth, their taxable income stays at 100,000 in that given year. So there's no tax benefit up front with the Roth IRA versus a traditional IRA, you could have a tax savings up front when you make the contribution if it's deductible.Nick: So from an eligibility standpoint, for a single person, somebody that makes under 122,000 can make a full contribution. If their income is between 122,000 and 137,000, there is a partial that can be made. If their income is over 137,000, they are not able to make a contribution to a Roth IRA. For married filing jointly, if their income is below 193,000, they can make contributions for both of them and their spouse. If the income is between 193 and 203,000, it's a partial. And if the household or the married filing jointly income is above or greater than 203,000, then they are not eligible to make the contribution.Speaker 1: Gotcha. Okay. All right, so we've covered some of the contributions, some of the eligibility you mentioned already in the tax deferred growth part. What about access? Did we cover some things there?John: So one thing the eligibility and it's becoming more popular now with Roth 401k. So if you're not eligible to make a Roth IRA contribution, one thing to do is check with your employer and see if they offer a Roth 401k, which actually has no income limits for you to be able to participate in it, which is a nice [inaudible 00:05:37]Speaker 1: Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, absolutely. All right, that's a Roth 401k. Maybe we'll do another show about that another time. What about the access side, anything there? Is it the same 59 and a half, all that kind of stuff?John: So rules are fairly similar, where you as far as access getting to the account, there is the 59 and a half rule. And if you do draw early there's a 10% penalty on your earnings. And I stress earnings on that, because with a Roth IRA and I say this, consult with your tax preparer, tax advisor, we don't give tax advice. But with a Roth IRA, you can actually access what we call cost basis prior to 59 and a half without any penalty. I've seen a couple of people do it where basically let's say if you've put in 30,000 into your Roth in your account at 50. So 20,000 earnings, 30,000 is what you've put in, which is considered your cost basis. You can pull that 30,000 out without paying a penalty. It's just you have to keep very good records of your contribution amounts. And if you do pull it out, you have to work with your tax preparer to go ahead and let the IRS know that you pulled out a portion of your tax basis. And that's would avoid any type of a penalty on that.Speaker 1: All right, so we've covered several things on the Roth side, so the access, the eligibility, contributions, all that good kind of stuff. So let's just get into the fact that it's been hugely popular. It's been a very hot button issue for the last really couple of years. Obviously one of the reasons, we mentioned earlier that it's tax deferred. Really, the taxes are low, right? We're in a historically low tax rate. So one of the reasons that a Roth might be a good place to go, or a Roth conversion I guess I should say, is because of the tax thing. So what are some other reasons why the Roth is just really popular?Nick: You pointed to one of the biggest reasons from the standpoint of we are in historical low tax brackets. And one of the things that we talk about with clients and it really became evident towards the end of 2019 is, the thing that might be the quote unquote best strategy today, it may not be the best strategy five years down the road, 10 years down the road. So for most of the clients that we meet with, they're substantially overweight on pre-tax money and maybe only recently have started to build up Roth money. And we think it's really important to have balance and to have options in retirement. Your ability to be able to pivot and adjust to law changes, rule changes, market conditions, etc. are really important. And then part of that is not having to be forced to take out a required minimum distribution on a Roth helps you maintain that balance and maintain the nest egg, those tax free [inaudible 00:08:18] roles help give you flexibility and balance, the ability to be able to pass on funds to beneficiaries, Roth dollars.Nick: Especially if you have... Maybe your kids are high-income, you've done a good job planning. We go through the numbers, we built the plan and there's a pretty high probability that you're going to be passing on money to the kids. The rub, money is usually much better to plan or to pass down, because of the fact that it will be tax-free to them as well. So the ability to really create flexibility in your planning and strategies is one of the reasons that we think the Roths are a really important piece of the pie.John: Just to jump in. One thing, just backtracking to accessing it tax-free. Just a couple of rules with it is you have to be above 59 and a half. And you actually have to have had a Roth IRA account for at least five years. So an example would be, let's say I open one up at age 60. I'm above 59 and a half. The person cannot actually withdraw tax free until basically 65. So I have to wait five years and that's from the first Roth I ever started up. So one thing that we typically will work with clients is if they're eligible, we might just go ahead and start a Roth IRA just to start that five year window.Speaker 1: Okay. All right. That's good. Yeah. Good information to know on that. Now with the beneficiary thing and passing things along, is the change in the SECURE act, does that make a difference in the Roth as well? Is there anything there that would pertain to people if they're thinking about it that they should definitely be checking with you guys on before doing a conversion or something like that?John: Yeah, so I believe we're doing a four part session to this. We're going to talk about conversions, but yeah, that makes conversions a little more appealing where you have to pull the money out over a 10 year period now. Where basically at least if you have to pull it over 10 years, there's actually no tax hit. So as your IRA gets bigger, if you're pulling out of a $1 million IRA over a 10 year period, that's going to really affect your tax rate. If it was all Roth money, it would have no bearing on your taxes.Speaker 1: Gotcha. Okay. All right. Yeah, and we are going to continue on with this conversation on a future podcast about which one might be right for you and all those good kinds of things. Nick, anything else that we may have overlooked in there we need to throw in?Nick: No, I just can't really say it enough from the standpoint of building in flexibility is key. Most of the people that listen to the podcasts are going to have pretax money, but if they don't have any Roth money then just getting started can be really important to build that up. Because even if they're within a few years of retirement, just remember that we're still planning for 30, 40 years down the road. Having money that compounds over a long period of time and then has tax free withdrawals on the backside is a pretty significant leverage point and benefit.Speaker 1: Okay, one final question I'm going to ask you guys is you sometimes hear people say, if I'm still working, can I contribute or should I contribute to both kinds, the traditional or the Roth? What do you say when someone asks that type of question? Should someone do both the traditional for the tax reasons and then the Roth for the non-tax? What's your answer?John: We'll answer that in the next session.Speaker 1: Nicely done. Look at him teeing that up. There you go, folks. All right, I'll tell you what. We will take care of that on the next session and that way you have a reason to come back. A cliffhanger if you will. So if you've got questions about the Roth IRA, make sure you talk with your advisor about that. If you're not working with an advisor, you certainly should be. Reach out to John and Nick and give them a call at PFG Private Wealth. And you can reach them at 813-286-7776. That's the number to dial. 813-286-7776 here in the Tampa Bay area or go to their website, check them out online at pfgprivatewealth.com. That is pfgprivatewealth.com. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you can get those next episodes as they come out. Nick, John, thanks for your time this week.Speaker 1: I hope everybody has a great week and you guys enjoy yourself and continue to get some good sleep while that baby's resting, all right?John: Hopefully it continues. I think it will.Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. Nick, appreciate your time, buddy. Take care.Nick: Thanks. Have a good one.Speaker 1: We'll see you next time here on Retirement Planning Redefined with the guys from PFG Private Wealth, John and Nick.
SEASON 2: EPISODE 5 Poet Nick Flynn talks about the ways in which he won't die. ABOUT THE GUEST Nick Flynn has worked as a ship’s captain, an electrician, and a caseworker for homeless adults. Some of the venues his poems, essays, and nonfiction have appeared in include the New Yorker, the Nation, the Paris Review, the New York Times Book Review, and NPR’s This American Life. His writing has won awards from the Guggenheim Foundation, the Library of Congress, PEN, and the Fine Arts Work Center, among other organizations. His film credits include artistic collaborator and “field poet” on Darwin’s Nightmare (nominated for an Academy Award for Best Feature Documentary in 2006), as well as executive producer and artistic collaborator on Being Flynn, the film version of his memoir Another Bullshit Night in Suck City. His most recent collection of poetry, I Will Destroy You, appeared from Graywolf Press in 2019. He lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Lili Taylor, and his daughter, Maeve. http://www.nickflynn.org/ ABOUT THE HOST Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as “tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny.” His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA, he’s a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com. ABOUT THE TITLE SHE'S A TALKER was the name of Neil’s first video project. “One night in the early 90s I was combing my roommate’s cat and found myself saying the words ‘She’s a talker.’ I wondered how many other other gay men in NYC might be doing the exact same thing at that very moment. With that, I set out on a project in which I videotaped over 80 gay men in their living room all over NYC, combing their cats and saying ‘She’s a talker.’” A similar spirit of NYC-centric curiosity and absurdity animates the podcast. CREDITS This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Producer: Devon Guinn Creative Consultants: Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue Mixer: Andrew Litton Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver Theme Song: Jeff Hiller Website: Itai Almor Media: Justine Lee Interns: Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse Kimotho Thanks: Jennifer Callahan, Nick Rymer, Sue Simon, Maddy Sinnock TRANSCRIPTION NICK FLYNN: I was driving my daughter to soccer. And she had a bike and I had a bike and we'd ride, even though it was a little cold. NEIL GOLDBERG: Yeah. NICK: But a guy went by on a bike and he had like a boombox, one of those boombox that plays, he's playing like a podcast, like really loud, and it was so odd. We both just laughed. It was like, what is that? You're just blasting a podcast going down the street, blasting. NEIL: This is fresh air. Hello, I'm Neil Goldberg and this is SHE'S A TALKER. I'm a visual artist and this podcast is my thinly veiled excuse to get some of my favorite New York writers, artists, performers, and beyond into the studio to chat. For prompts, I use a collection of thousands of index cards on which I've been writing thoughts and observations for the past two decades, kind of like one of those party games, but hopefully not as cheesy. These days, the cards often start as recordings I make into my phone. Here are some recent ones: I really love how Beverly pronounces 'Meow'. It's never appropriate to share scrap paper from home with students. I'm never sure what a simmer is. I'm so happy to have as my guest, poet Nick Flynn. I have been a hardcore fan of Nick's writing since his first book, Some Ether, came out in 2000 and was blown away by his memoirs, Another Bullshit Night in Suck City, and The Ticking is the Bomb. In the fall, he released a new book of poetry, I Will Destroy You, and in the next few months he has two more books coming out: Stay, and This is the Night Our House Will Catch on Fire. I met Nick briefly in, I think, the late eighties in Provincetown, and we reconnected recently via our mutual friend, Jacques Servin, who is on an earlier episode. Nick and I spoke in January at a recording studio at The New School near Union Square in New York City. NEIL: Are you comfortable? NICK: Like on a scale of one to ten? NEIL: Like, you know those smiley faces, like if you're in the hospital. NICK: How much pain I have? Uh, I hadn't even thought about it till you just said that. Now I'm wondering if I am, so. NEIL: I feel like I'm, I'm totally not, I'm not feeling any pain at the moment. NICK: No, I'm not feeling any pain. No, I'm feeling no pain. NEIL: That's different from, feeling no pain is different from not feeling any pain. NICK: That means if you're kind of fucked up, I think. NEIL: Exactly. NICK: You're feeling no pain. NEIL: Um, I'm so happy to have you, Nick Flynn, on the show, SHE'S A TALKER. NICK: I'm happy to be here, Neil Goldberg - NEIL: I, you know - NICK: on the show SHE'S A TALKER. Is the 'She' the cat? NEIL: Yeah. NICK: That's, that's who the 'she' is. NEIL: It is, yeah. I, you know - NICK: I guess I got that. Yeah. NEIL: Well, you know, in 1993 when everyone was dying... Everyone is still dying, but just differently. NICK: I remember that. Yeah. NEIL: Yeah. Uh, you know, I did a video project where I interviewed, it turned out to be, like about 80 gay men all over New York City in all five boroughs who had female cats, combing their cats and saying "She's a Talker." NICK: They were combing the cats? NEIL: Combing the cat. It was just almost like, it was like a stealthy way to like, not stealthy, but it was a way to document a lot of gay men who felt like really imperiled, and it was my first video project. And, I don't know, when I decided to name this, that came up for me. But subsequently I get a lot of like, what does the word 'she' mean at this point? NICK: Right, right, right. Yeah. NEIL: Maybe I should rebrand it. What should I call it? NICK: Uh, you should stick with it, I think. Hmm. NEIL: Uh, when, when you're looking for like a short hand, like you encounter someone on the proverbial elevator and are looking for like a pithy way to describe who it is you are and what it is you do, what do you, what do you reach for? NICK: I say I'm a poet. NEIL: Period. NICK: Period. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that usually gets a pretty dead-eyed stare like the one you just gave me. Like that's it? That's it. NEIL: When someone is confronted with poet, silence, do you ever feel like helping someone out? NICK: Well, it depends on like, often, that'll pretty much be the conversation-ender. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: So it does nothing to help cause they're gone right at that point. NEIL: If your folks were around, how might they describe who it is you've become? NICK: Wow, that's a, that's an interesting one. Would they, would they still be, are they like idealized, my, like my parents on their best day or on their worst day? NEIL: Oh, I wouldn't mind hearing both if you don't mind. Like the... NICK: Ah, like, you know, there's the idealized version of your parents. Then there's the, not the reality, but the, you know, but recognizing at a certain point that they had some rough days, you know. In my mind, it's hard to deny they had some rough days. So, um, it's a little, it's a little harder to pretend. Yeah. Uh, my father, he knew that I'd published books and he was sort of, you know, strangely proud of that. Uh, but proud just in the way he knew I'd be a good writer because he was such a great writer, so I got it all from him. So he took all credit for any of it. So I imagined he would still take credit for any accomplishments I've had or that he perceives I've had. I've, I'm trying to think if he had like on a good day, that's sort of like a not so good day. Yeah. On a good day, he did have a couple moments where he was able to just recognize the struggle it had been, uh, between the two of us, uh, to actually acknowledge that. And I think that would be like, he'd say like, yeah, this was, this must have been hard, you know? So I think that would be. That'd be a good day for him. My mother's a little more enigmatic, like it's actually, when I think about it, like, cause I mean, she died before he did. I was younger. I didn't know her as well, probably. So, although I grew up with her, but, um, I sort of studied my father more, and my mother's more of a, uh, a construct of the imagination in some ways. Although, I mean, we spent so much time together too. It's strange to say that actually, I don't know if that's true. You know, I, there's always the question like, what would my mother be like now? So I'm, I look at women that are my mother's age, that would be my mother's age now. Like I don't know how, how she would be. So either way, I think she's, since she, from her backhouse sort of WASP-y Irish background, she probably wouldn't say directly anything. I'd have to decipher what she said. NEIL: So it would be cryptic in terms of her estimation of you, or? NICK: I mean, she, I think she'd say, "Oh, I'm, I'm proud of you." But the deeper levels of that I think would be harder to get to. NEIL: Yeah. I see you came in, you were, you had a bike helmet, which I connect to. Um, on your bike ride over, did you have any thoughts? NICK: Wow. Thoughts as I was coming here - the sort of meta thing is I was listening on my headphones to SHE'S A TALKER. And you're talking to someone about riding a bike over the bridge. NEIL: Right, yeah. NICK: So like, yeah. I mean, at the moment I was riding over the bridge. I was listening to you talk to someone else about riding over the bridge and then thinking that I would soon be here talking to you, and I brought my helmet it, I didn't - usually I lock it on my bike but maybe I brought it in so you would ask me about it. It's possible, but I think I just brought it in cause it was cold, it was so cold outside. I wanted a warm helmet when I went back out. So. NEIL: Aha, you didn't want to put on a cold helmet. I never thought about that. NICK: What I thought about on the bridge was that it was way colder than I thought it was. It was the wind, it was like howling and I had a hat in my bag and I kept thinking, I'll just stop and put my hat on under my helmet and I didn't stop. I kept thinking, I'll warm up at some point, but I just kept getting colder and colder the further I went. I just never stopped, I just kept going. NEIL: Well, let's, um, go to some cards that I curated for you. NICK: You curate these for this conversation? NEIL: Yes. Yeah. (Card flip) So the first card is: the specific, tentative, hyper-attentive way one tastes something to see if it's gone bad. NICK: Um, what I usually do is I'll, I'll, I'll cook it and then give it to my brother. NEIL: Mikey likes it? NICK: Yeah. And then if he can get through it then it probably hasn't gone so far bad. Cause he's pretty sensitive actually. I mean, while I'm presenting, it sounds like he'd just eat anything. No. He's quite sensitive. So he's like sort of the. He's, he, he, he's a Canary. Ah ha. Yeah. So I'll just fix it up and give it to him and then, cause he'll, usually, he's quite happy if I make him something, give him some food, then if it's no good, then, then I throw it away. Yeah. If he eats it, I'll eat it. NEIL: He's your taster. Um, where, where does your brother live? NICK: He lives upstate, New York. NEIL: Oh, okay. Yeah, but he's your older brother, right, if I'm remembering? NICK: But why did you say, "but." Because he lives upstate? NEIL: No, because of the scenario of like, your brother, the implication. He's an implied younger brother in the story. NICK: Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. He's an implied younger brother in life too. (Card Flip) NEIL: Next card. When a toddler falls, that space before they start to cry. NICK: Well. My daughter was, uh, three. And for us, like three was really like, spectacular meltdowns and just like, you know, tantrums and just like wildness, just like absolutely wild, like wild animal, just screaming and frustrated and like, you know, furious. And one day she, uh, she was in a tantrum, she fell and she hit her cheek on the corner of a staircase and it split open and like bled. It sort of woke her up. Like it was right at the end of her being three, she was going to turn four. It was a Sunday night. And my wife and I were like, Oh, what do we do? Like, I'm like, I guess, do we take her to her doctor or do we like, you know, just like, like leave her with a scar for the rest of her life? And so I butterfly-stitched it, you know, like made a little butterfly thing, to hold it together to squish the skin together, you know? And, uh. That's what we did. We sort of looked up t see like how big and deep it had to be to go to a doctor and stuff and to need a stitch, and it was sort of right on the edge. So I butterfly-stitched it, and then. Yeah so now she just has this pretty little scar on her face and she's perfect. NEIL: Wow. And does she know the story of the scar? NICK: Oh yeah. I would say it's a part of her myth, part of her origin myth. The wildest, the wildness poured out of her cheek. Yeah. Yeah. NEIL: Uh, can, can you share - NICK: Did that answer your question? NEIL: Yes and no. That's always the, um, I think it's beautiful. I have the idea, I'm not a parent, but when I see a kid having a tantrum - NICK: I wasn't either before that. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: It comes on kind of suddenly. NEIL: But how did you deal with tantrums? NICK: I, I've been sort of attentive and amused by the whole process. Like I feel like we're really lucky. She's a really good kid and just a really interesting kid and like, so I just sort of like see it, like, I admire the tantrums in a certain way. Like, I think everyone should be like, just screaming, running down the streets, you know, most of the time. Like this sucks. Um, so there was something very, uh, wild about it. Like just to see like, wow, like you can just do this. You can just go and like, you can go to a store and just pull a whole rack down. If you don't get your Popsicle, you don't fucking. She, she used to fire me like every day as a father. She said, if you do not give me that Popsicle, you will not be able to kiss me. You will not be able to hug me. You will not be my father. NEIL: What did you say to that? NICK: I'm like, Oh, that's really hard. I'd be sad not to be your father. She was like, you will not be able to, you will have to go to Texas and never come back. NEIL: Crafty. NICK: Yeah, she was good. Yeah, but I, you know, I was onto her though. Yeah. I'd be her father like in half an hour later. NEIL: Did you ever say - NICK: She'd rehire me like half hour later. Yeah. NEIL: Was there a re-intake process? NICK: No. No. We just pretended it didn't happen. Yeah, it was all moving forward. It was all the continuous present. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: You just kept this present moment. This present moment had no connection to the other moments whatsoever. NEIL: Did you ever join your daughter in a tantrum? NICK: Did I ever join her in a tantrum? Oh, wow. Yeah, I did. Yeah. I remember one night, like early on when she was like six months old and that. The beautiful hallucination of early parenthood where you just, you just don't sleep. You just like, you're just awake for like months. Like just not sleeping. And you just fall asleep in the middle of things. Just like, you know, you can just barely do anything. Everything's filthy and like, you know, you just wash all the clothes and immediately they're filthy again, the food is just taken and thrown to the floor. I think the dogs eat it. You just give up in a certain way. There's one night I was up with her at like three in the morning and she was just screaming. And I was just like, I think I filmed her screaming with my phone. I'm just like, okay, just scream. Just scream. I'm going to make a movie of you screaming. I was like, I don't know what to do. So I just made a little movie of her. NEIL: Wow. But you didn't, but, but it didn't call on you the feeling of like, now I am going to lose it myself and cry? NICK: Um, well, I think I viewed, it's like, you know, I'm from like a sort of WASP-y Irish background, and so we don't really show that stuff. And I'm sort of always like that, but it don't, I don't, I try. I think no one can see it, but I think everyone actually sees it. NEIL: So always you're, you're crying always. NICK: Melting down, yeah. (Card Flips) NEIL: Okay. Kids with artist parents. Because both you and your wife are artists. Like to me, the idea of like, two artists come together and they have a kid, well that's going to be a super kid. And then that kid maybe, will - NICK: Be with another artist, yeah. NEIL: It's almost like an artistic eugenics kind of vision or something. NICK: Um, yeah. I always think it for our daughter, like Lord help her. Really. I don't think like, Oh, you've been, you've won the lottery. Like, like, this is the card, this is the hand you've been dealt. Good luck with it. You know, we're both like, yeah, we're both a little. I, I don't know, I don't know if neurotic is the right word, but like, you know. You know, we're, we're sensitive. We're like, you know, in some ways not made for this world, we're, we're awkward where other people are comfortable, we're, uh, you know, we found our place to, to survive, which is really lucky, you know? And also, you know, in a culture, like I'm a poet too, I'm not, like, it's not that like, this is like some hugely respected artistic position in our culture at the moment. You know, like, that's why I say that I, I say it perversely if someone asks me, with the elevator pitches, like if they ask me what I do, I say I'm a poet. And just because it's perverse, it's like it's so perverse, you know? You know when, if you go to a doctor's office, I write it on a form. I write 'poet', just, you might as well ride hobo or something. Right? That's not right. I'm a wizard. So it's not like, it doesn't feel like that she's suddenly being dealt like this, like, like a superhuman. Like, what are you talking about? NEIL: Right. NICK: It's just unfortunate. Like, you know. Artists get attracted to artists because we can vaguely understand each other, maybe. You know, we're not like, you know, I've tried to be with civilians before and it's like, not easy, you know? I really, I feel less understood, you know? I barely feel like I fit in now. To this world. So you know, you find someone who you feel like, yeah, you also don't feel like you fit in. So that's a kind of connection. NEIL: How does your, how does your daughter describe what, what you both do? Does she unabashedly say - NICK: Well, it's a little easier for Lily, for my wife. I mean, cause she's like, you know, people actually will sometimes recognize her on the streets and stuff, so she's a little prouder. NEIL: But him, the hobo. NICK: And my dad's a poet. (Card Flip) NEIL: Okay. Next card: the fetishization of storytelling. NICK: Yeah. Right now there's a, there's a whole storytelling thing going on, right? Yeah. There's a whole sense of revival and stuff, and I don't exactly get it. I mean, I, I admire it, like I've gone to The Moth, I've participated in a couple of storytelling things. It's a, it's a strange form for me. It's a strange art form for me, and I admire it when it's done really well. I admire it. The ones I've gone to, that I've been part of, they were, kind of felt a little closer to stand-up, which is another art form too. But I'm like, the line is a little blurry and a little like strange and, and it makes sense that stand-up would be part of it. Cause they are sort of like, like jokes in a way. They're sort of packaged. I mean it's a packaged form. It's like improv is more interesting to me. Like where you don't know where it's going to go. But where, if you know where, I mean, like I say, people that do it well, it's really beautiful. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: It's just not what I do. It's like memoir is not storytelling. Uh, it's another form. And storytelling is like one part of it. You sort of tell the story, but then you sort of have to turn over the story and say like, why am I telling this story? Like what am I trying to present in telling this story, ignores all these other realities that are happening or all these other things I don't want you to know. People will come up and say like, you know, how's it feel to like, have that people know so much about you now? Like, well, you only know what I want you to know. You're gonna get some glimpse from a book. NEIL: Right. Yeah. NICK: From storytelling, I don't know even what glimpse you get, you get a glimpse of how they tell a story I guess. I want to know about other people. I want to know like what their, the interior life is of other people, what the landscape is. Which is why I like read... Or, why I, why I do anything. Like go see art. Or just to sort of like have that, so you're not so, so you recognize it's not all, all ego, you know? It's not all, like everything isn't sort of springing forth from within me. You know? NEIL: Right. I'm not interested in other people's stories generally. NICK: Yeah. NEIL: Specifically too. I'm not interested in other people's stories, but I'm interested in hearing people think, which is what this podcast is about. So like the way their thought processes reveal themselves. That interests me. I don't know, but I'm, I'm, I'm not interested in the content. NICK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I understand. Yeah. I teach creative writing and often it's like, I'm much more interested in like, the stuff around the content. It's not about the content, like it's more about the stuff around like how you're like, like, you know, how this one thing transformed something else or how you chose to make this weird sentence, or how like these things that have sort of moments of excitement. The story itself can be rather deadening. NEIL: Right. NICK: Yeah. Because, I think because it's somewhat packaged too, it is a lot of times, yeah. NEIL: But I also, the thing I really resist is this, like: "We're about stories." You know, like the, this fetishization of storytelling has creeped into like how, how stories are talked about. It's like, we bring you stories da da da, stories. It's like, it feels infantilizing too. NICK: Well, you know, I was just talking about this with one of my, some of my students, uh. You know, the, what's the most famous Joan Didion line? "We tell ourselves stories in order to live." NEIL: Right, right. NICK: And, yet, The White Album goes on. That's the first line of The White Album. That'll probably be on her tombstone. Uh, you know, they make bookmarks of it in bookstores, and yet if you actually read The White Album, that essay, she totally just doesn't believe it and contradicts it and says like, why? Like this makes no sense at all. And like that this is, I thought I could do this. Like I was, I was desperately trying to create a story that would protect me from something and it, none of it worked. And it just dissolves, the whole thing just all is like, so to take that one line out of context and say, this is actually a truism is so strange. It doesn't make any sense at all. And there's a thing, my therapist came up with this thing of the, I don't know if he came up with it, but we talk about my, one of my disorders, uh, one of my many disorders is a narrative affect disorder where I'll create like stories like, but you know, it's not stories like you're talking about, it's creating books and creating like versions of what happened, um, in order to contain it and to be able to hold onto it in a way that seems safe, so I don't have to feel the actual emotional intensity of it. NEIL: Right. NICK: Um, and I think it's, it is a type of illness. I think storytelling is a type of illness, uh, that keeps you from actually feeling. (Card Flips) NEIL: Next card: often when I leave the apartment, I think, is this how I'd like it to be found if I die today? NICK: I think that one's more about you than me. I think. Um. NEIL: You don't think that when you leave? NICK: Well, I don't think I'm ever going to die. I'm pretty sure. NEIL: Do you really believe that? NICK: Yeah. Like I, yeah, no. I have a thing where like, I'm, I'm, there's, well, I just know the ways I'm not going to die. NEIL: Okay. Let's hear it. NICK: I'm not going to die in an airplane crash. I'm not going to die by getting eaten by a shark. Might die by getting hit by a car on a bicycle. I mean I might, so I have to be careful. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: But I can swim for miles in the ocean filled with sharks. I'm fine. Yesterday I was on a plane coming from Houston and, uh, it was just like, like being on a ship in the middle of a, of a nor'easter. Like it was just wild, you know, like it really, like it was almost spinning. Yeah. I was fine. I'm like, Oh, this is cool cause I'm not gonna die in a plane. Like, you know, so I just have these sorts of things. They might be, you know, just delusional. You know, I mean, how could I possibly know? But I'm almost positive I'm not going to get eaten by a shark. NEIL: Uh huh. NICK: Which really, which really helps in Provincetown. Cause there's a lot of sharks there now and a lot of people don't swim in the water. And I'm like, ask yourself, are you going to get eaten by a shark? Do you really think that's the way you're gonna die? And most people would say no. I mean, wouldn't you say no? Like no. If you know, on a rational day, like that'd be really, and if you did, that'd be so cool. Like how many people, how many poets get eaten by a shark? That'd be so excellent, right? Like it's a win-win. I have a poet, there's a poet, Craig Arnold, a really great poet that died a couple of years ago. He was writing a whole series of poems on volcanoes. Traveling the world, like got a grant to travel the world and look at volcanoes. He's just gone. He just vanished one day. He vanished. We think he fell into a volcano and died. Like, that's like an amazing story. Like it's terrible, terrible, awful. But I mean, there are a lot worse ways to die than falling into a volcano. NEIL: Oh my God. How would you feel about being bitten by a shark and surviving it? NICK: That's cool. That woman, that, that surfer that only has one arm, she's cool. NEIL: You'd be okay with that? NICK: If I could surf like her. (Card Flips) NEIL: Um. NICK: I really killed this bottle of Perrier. NEIL: Oh, awesome. I love it. Um, good job. Uh: the ambiguity of "It's downhill from here." NICK: Oh. The whole idea of like, you know. There's a few things. Yeah. The opposite is all uphill from here, right. It's all, so downhill sounds pretty good, right? But it suggests like we're sliding into the grave, I think. NEIL: Yes. NICK: Like it's all like we've reached the peak. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: That was the peak. It was really hard to get to the peak. And as soon as you get to the peak, you start going downhill. Yeah. You know? Uh, and, uh. Yeah, I often joke, yeah, I'm on the other side of the, on the other side, now, you know, that you somehow that the, the, the greatest work and the greatest, uh, notoriety so that was a while ago. Um, and. NEIL: But also maybe the greatest struggle, no? NICK: Was a while ago. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: Yeah. Oh, I dunno. But I, I joke about it. I just, I don't really believe that. The most recent project I'm doing just feels completely, uh, uh, fulfills me. You know, I'd have this other book coming out, this book, Stay, coming out, which I'm, I worked on a lot last year and I'm happy with that. And another book coming out after that. So there's like, you know, I don't really worry about it, but it's, it's almost a thing. It might be sort of Irish too, like just so you don't want to sort of, uh, be too full of yourself. You know, you want to like sort of be somewhat, you don't want to show how many fish you caught that day cause then you have to give half away. So you sort of downplay it. You downplay it. So the downhill side is where we sort of live. We live on the downhill side. I don't know, it's a strange metaphor. NEIL: It's, it's ambiguous. NICK: Yeah, it's a strange metaphor. NEIL: But I'm also thinking it's a paradox, too, and, as you talked, because take the downhill part. Um, it does get easier. NICK: Yeah. NEIL: I think, I mean, my life, I will say, and anything could change at any moment, has gotten so much easier, you know, now that I'm clearly on the other side. NICK: Psychic. NEIL: Yeah. NICK: Psychically. Yeah. NEIL: For sure. NICK: Yeah. Yeah. NEIL: Um, yeah. It's also, I am sliding into the grave. Yeah. I mean, hopefully it's a long slide, but... NICK: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mortality. The cold wind of mortality does start to, you start to feel it. At a certain point. NEIL: In your back. NICK: Yeah. You started, you know, it's blown in your face. Yeah. It's like, it's like you feel it, which I, you sort of thought you felt it in your 20's but you really, you could have, I mean, we know a lot of people that died in their 20's, sure. It was not like this. This is like the real thing. Yeah. This is like, yeah. There's no, like, there's no choice in the matter. So like, yeah, maybe I'll just overdose or something, you know, or, or, you know, or I'll just be reckless and didn't die. Now it's like, yeah, no matter what I do, doesn't matter what I do, I can, I can eat kale, I can eat kale the rest of my life. NEIL: Yeah. I don't have to coax the process and it's still going to happen. NICK: Yeah. (Card Flips) NEIL: The existential space of the clipboard. NICK: Well, I mean, clipboard, I think when you say clipboard, I was thinking of just like first of a blank clipboard, but then I was also thinking of the thing you put clippings on, that you put other things on, combine things together. NEIL: I'm thinking of the clipboard, the computer clipboard. Like when you cut something. That space. NICK: Well, what do, what is it? What is that on the computer? NEIL: The clipboard. NICK: Yeah. What is that? I'm not sure what it, what do you mean? You cut and paste stuff? Or... NEIL: Anytime you, surely you do Command X and Command C, right? NICK: You mean like copy things and then cut things? Yeah. Yeah. Cut. Yeah. NEIL: So when you copy something - NICK: And Command V. NEIL: Oh yeah. NICK: Yeah, yeah. Can't forget Command V. NEIL: Absolutely. When you do Command C - NICK: Yeah. That copies it. NEIL: Into the clipboard. And then that command, do Command V - NICK: It takes it off the clipboard. NEIL: Yeah. Well, it stays in the clipboard, but it also pastes the inside. NICK: See I don't think, I never knew that. Yeah. I never would've thought of that. NEIL: I'm acutely aware of the clipboard. NICK: I never thought where it went. Oh. Oh. Well, this is a tough question cause I've never really thought of this before. So, uh, existential, I mean, that's kind of heavy to suggest it has to do with life or death. Um, uh. NEIL: You don't think about your text in that kind of liminal state between when you cut it and when you've pasted it? NICK: I figured it just, it goes away. Like it doesn't, like if I, if I cut something else, then that replaces the thing I cut before, or if I copy something else, replaces the thing. So I just assume there's not a clipboard holding all of them. NEIL: No, it isn't. That's part of the existential condition. NICK: Cause it just vanishes once you put something else on top, once you copy something else. NEIL: Yeah. It's fragile. NICK: Yeah. I make a lot of copies. I try to, I try to like, save things as much as possible and like, yeah, like I'm, and print things up. I, I prefer to write by hand first. Uh, really. Um, and then to print it and then to write by hand on the thing I've printed and then to keep going back and forth like that. I like writing by hand. There's a, there's a young poet, um, who created an app called 'Midst.' It's hard to say midst, like in, you're in the midst of something. Yeah. I don't know how to - midst. M. I. D. S. T. It's very hard to say for me. NEIL: Yeah. Me too. NICK: Can you say it? NEIL: Uh, yeah. I feel like it's going to intersect with my sibilant A-S. Let's try it. Midst. NICK: Yeah. Oh, you do feel very well. NEIL: But a little gay, right? NICK: I didn't, I didn't say that. I raised one eyebrow, but I did not say it. NEIL: When straight men raise one eyebrow, it somehow doesn't look gay. Midst. Midst. What's Midst? NICK: Well, it's a, it's a program that she did where you can, where you write a poem, I guess you write anything, but it sort of keeps track of all the cutting and pasting you do and the, the process of making it. So you ended up, you send her like a final poem, but then she can press a button and can see all the stuff you did to make it. Um, so I have to try it though, but I usually, I really usually write by hand first and she's like, no, you have to write it on the, you have to compose the whole thing on the thing. I'm like, okay, so I just haven't quite done it yet, but I'm, yeah, I'm planning on it though. NEIL: But this is basically, this isn't a useful tool. This is a tool to create a kind of - NICK: To create a thing. She'll publish like a magazine that shows, like you look at a poem and then you press a button and it all sort of like, maybe it goes in reverse and dissolves back to the first word or something. NEIL: Yeah. I just am not into those kinds of things. I feel like there's a lot of that peripheral to the art world. These things that kind of like perform a process or reveal a process. I'm just not into that. You know what I'm saying? NICK: No, but that's okay. I mean, I try, I believe that you are not into it. I'm just like, process is nice. Like I love, I love, I love seeing the process. I love seeing, don't you love like, like thinking like Michelangelo's slaves, you know, on the way to the David, right? NEIL: Oh yeah. NICK: We get to see the slaves like coming out of the block of marble and everyone says that they were like incomplete. NEIL: Yes. NICK: Yeah. We just said, which is such bullshit. Like if you think about it, like what, he did twelve incomplete at the same stage, like they're half out of the block just, Oh, I'm just gonna stop them all here. NEIL: Right? NICK: Like, it makes no sense at all. Like you couldn't finish one of them? NEIL: Right. NICK: Like he clearly saw that it looked cool for slaves who were pulling themselves out of what they're stuck in. And that, I find it so much more interesting than David, which is complete and perfect. I think, I think that's the meta thing where it's like all about process. That's like the process right there. NEIL: Huh. NICK: Yeah. So I try to think about that. That was just sort of a highfalutin way to counter your anti-process. NEIL: Doesn't feel highfalutin. I think my thing was like faux highfalutin. (Card Flips) What keeps you going? NICK: Um. Uh, just wondering what's gonna happen next. Yeah. Yeah. NEIL: Poet. On that note, thank you, Nick Flynn, for being on SHE'S A TALKER. NICK: Thank you, Neil. NEIL: That was my conversation with Nick Flynn. Thank you for listening. Before we get to the credits, there were some listener responses to cards that I'd love to share. In my conversation with artist Tony Bluestone, we talked about the card: That moment when you forget what you should be worrying about and try to reclaim it. In response to that card, Jamie Wolf wrote, "A single brussel sprout rolled under the stove, and I wasn't gonna let Shavasana get in the way of my at least remembering to retrieve it." John Kensal responded with what I think is a haiku: Please sit or flee, my wee and quiet executive function disorder. Another card Tony and I talked about was: Fog is queer weather, to which Jonathan Taylor wrote, "To me, fog is transgressive because it's like a cloud. So it's either you or it is not where it's supposed to be." Thanks to everyone who wrote in. If you have something you'd like to share about a card on the podcast, email us or send us a voice memo at shesatalker@gmail.com or message us on Instagram at shesatalker. And also, as always, we'd love it if you'd rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or share this episode with a friend. This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Devin Guinn produced this episode. Molly Donahue and Aaron Dalton are our consulting producers. Justine Lee handles social media. Our interns are Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse Kimotho, and Rachel Wang. Our card flip beats come from Josh Graver. And my husband, Jeff Hiller, sings the theme song you're about to hear. Thanks to all of them, and to my guest, Nick Flynn, and to you for listening. JEFF HILLER: She's a talker with Neil Goldberg. She's a talker with fabulous guests. She's a talker, it's better than it sounds, yeah!
We cover the basics on the traditional IRA. John and Nick will break down what this investment vehicle is for and how it may be able to benefit you.Helpful Information:PFG Website: https://www.pfgprivatewealth.com/Contact: 813-286-7776Email: info@pfgprivatewealth.comFor a transcript of today's show, visit the blog related to this episode at https://www.pfgprivatewealth.com/podcast/Transcript of Today's Show:----more----Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome into this edition of Retirement Planning Redefined with John and Nick here with me, talking about investing finance and retirement. From their office, their PFG Private Wealth in Tampa Bay guys, what's going on? How are you this week, John?John: I'm good. How are you doing?Speaker 1: I'm hanging in there. Amidst the goofiness of the world, I'm doing all right. How about you, Nick? You doing okay?Nick: Yep, yep. Pretty good. We finished up the retirement classes that we teach recently, so just meeting with a lot of people after that class.Speaker 1: Okay. Those went pretty well?Nick: Yeah. Yeah, always good. Always fun.Speaker 1: Okay, well, very good. Listen, I got a little bit of a kind of a class idea for us to run through here. I wanted to talk this week about IRAs, really just an IRA 101, if you will, and then we'll follow it up with our next podcast coming up after this one. We'll follow up with the Roth side of the coin. Let's jump into here just a little bit and talk about this and get rocking and rolling. Just do us a favor. Just assume that we don't all have the same knowledge base. What is an IRA? Give us just a quick 101 on that.John: So yeah, good question. Especially with a tax season coming up, because I know a lot of people when they're doing their taxes, and whether it's TurboTax or working with an accountant, at the end of it it says you might want contribute to an IRA and maybe save some taxes this year. Or maybe get [inaudible 00:01:22] taxable income down the road. But you brought this topic up. So when I raise an individual retirement account on the personal side, a lot of people have their employer sponsored plans, but the IRA is for the individual. Really, there's a lot of tax benefits to it to provide for saving for retirement. One of the biggest questions that Nick and I get, or I guess assumptions, is that most people think an IRA is an actual investment, and it's really not. I explain it as imagine a tax shell, a tax shell you can invest in a lot of different things, and you have some tax benefits within the shell.Speaker 1: Okay. So it's like a turtle shell, if you want to look out that way. It's a wrapper really, right? So it's what your Snicker bar comes in. It's the wrapper. Then inside there you can put all sorts of different stuff. So who can contribute to IRAs?John: Well, there's two main types, and Nick will jump into that. But there's your traditional IRA and then a Roth IRA.Speaker 1: Okay.Nick: From the standpoint of how those break down, how those work, we're going to focus on traditional IRAs today. The number one determination on whether or not you can contribute to an IRA is if there is earned income in the household. So if it's a single person household, they have to have earned income. That does not include pension income, social security income, rental income. It's earned income. You receive some sort of wage for doing a job. So that's the first rule. You can contribute for 2019 and for 2020 essentially, if you're under 50, you can contribute $6,000. If you're over 50, you can take part in what's called a catch-up, which is an additional $1,000 for a total of $7,000.Nick: So as an example, let say that it's a two-person household. One person is working, one person is not, and the person that's working has a least $14,000 of income. Then as long as they satisfy a couple other rules that we'll talk about, they can make a contribution for themself for the $7,000 and for the spouse for the $7,000. So earned income doesn't have to be for both people. It has to be for one, and then the amount ties in the amount of earned income.Speaker 1: Oh, okay.John: One thing to jump into that, and I've seen some people, not our clients, but others, make some mistakes where they think that, we talked about the two different kinds, traditional and Roth, where they think they can make, let's say, $7,000 into one and $7,000 in the other. It's actually $7,000 total between the two of them.Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. So, okay, so those are good to know. Whenever you're talking about just the contribution, the base set up of them. So let's stick with the traditional IRA and talk about it. What are some key things to think about like as an investment vehicle, as a machine here? These are pre-taxed, right?Nick: Yeah. When we talk about, and this is where the confusion really sets in for many people, when we talk about traditional IRAs, we really like to have conversations with people to make sure that they understand that there can be both a tax deductible or pretax traditional IRA, and there can be non-deductible traditional IRAs. So the logistics are dependent upon, really, a couple of different things whether or not they're active in an employer's plan. Then there are income limits that will determine whether or not somebody can participate in the tax deductible side of a traditional IRA. So that can be a little confusing. We usually have people consult with their tax prepare or and/or their software so that they can fully understand.Nick: But part of the reason that we bring that up is a real-world scenario is, what [inaudible 00:05:17] this client, worked at a company for 10 years, and she contributed to the 401k on a pretax basis. She left the company, rolled her 401k into a rollover IRA, and she's no longer working, but her spouse is working and wants to make IRA contributions for them. But he has a plan at work and makes too much money. They might have to do a non-deductible IRA. So usually what we will tell them to do is to open a second IRA, and when they make the contribution, they're going to account for it on their taxes as they made it. They're not going to deduct it. So we try not to commingle those dollars together. So a nondeductible IRA, we would like you to be separate from a rollover IRA. Otherwise, they have to keep track of the cost basis and their tax basis on nondeductible proportion commingled, and we're really just [inaudible 00:06:16] nightmare.John: Yeah, that's never fun to try and keep track of and never easy. One thing with with the pretax, just give an example of what that means is, let's say someone's taxable income in a given year is $100,000, and doing their taxes, it says, you might want to make a deductible contribution to an IRA. If they were to put $5,000 into the IRA, their taxable income for that given year would be $95,000. So that's where people look at the pretax as a benefit versus a nondeductible. That same example, $100,000 of income, you put $5,000 into a nondeductible IRA, your taxable income stays at that $100,000.Speaker 1: Okay. So what are the factors that determine if it's deductible or not?Nick: The answer is that it's fairly complicated. The first factor is, if we talk about an individual, they're going to look at do you have a plan at work that you're able to contribute to? So that's the first test. The second test is an income test. The tricky part with the income test is that there is a test for your income, and then there's also tests for household income. So usually we revert to the charts and advisors. We work together with the tax preparers to help make sure that we're in compliance with all of the rules. It should be much less complicated than it actually is. But it's really, honestly, a pain. I will say that if you do not have a plan at work that you can contribute to, your ability to contribute in [inaudible 00:07:56] to an IRA, a traditional IRA is much easier.Speaker 1: Okay. Gotcha. All right. So if that's some of the determining factors in there, what are some other important things for us to take away from a traditional IRA standpoint?John: Yeah, one of the biggest benefits to investing in an IRA versus, let's say, outside of it, is and if the account grows tax-deferred. So let's say you had money outside of an IRA and you get some growth on it, I say typically, because nothing's ever absolute. But you can really get it [inaudible 00:08:28] every single year and the gains and the dividends and things like that. Within the IRA shell, going back to that, it just continues to grow tax-deferred. So really help the compounding growth of it.Speaker 1: Okay. So when we're talking about some of these important pieces and the different things with the traditional, what are some other, I know a lot of times we know that it's the 59 and a half, right? All that kind of stuff. Give us some other things to think about just so that we're aware of the gist of it. Now, there was some changes to the Secure Act, which also makes them some of these numbers a little bit different now. The 59 and a half is still there, but now it's gone from 70 and a half to 72, right?John: Yeah. With good things like tax deferral and pre-tax, we do have some nice rules that the IRS/government basically hands down to us. One of them is as far as access to the account, you cannot fully access the account without any penalties until 59 and a half. After you're 59 and a half, you do get access to your account. If you access it before that, there is a 10% penalty on top of a whatever you draw. So that's basically deter to pull out early. There are some special circumstances as far as pulling out before 59 and a half, which could be any type of hardships financially, health wise, and also first time home purchases. We get that quite a bit sometimes where people say, I'm looking to buy a house and I want to go ahead and pull out of my IRA. Can I do so and avoid the penalty? The answer is yes, up to $10,000.John: Some of the changes with the Secure Act where they used to be after 70 and a half, you can no longer contribute to an IRA, even if you have earned income. That's actually gone, which is a nice feature when we're doing planning for clients above 70 and a half, where we can now make a deductible contribution to an IRA, where before we couldn't. Nick's the expert in RMD, so he can jump in and take that.Nick: One of the biggest things to keep in mind from the standpoint of traditional IRAs are that they do have required minimum distributions. The good thing is that those required minimum distributions are now required at age 72 versus 70 and a half. So that makes things a little bit easier for people. And again, that's kind of a big differentiator from the standpoint of a Roth IRA does not have an RMD, a traditional IRA does have an RMD.Speaker 1: Right, and with the RMDs, it's money that basically the government says, we're tired of waiting. Where's our tax revenue? Is there any basic things there just to think about when we're thinking about having to pull this out? Is there a figure attached to it?Nick: I would say we try to give people an idea, because sometimes there's uncertainty on any sort of concept of how much they have to take out. But on average it's about 3.6% in the first year. I would say though, that probably one of the biggest, or I should say one of the most misunderstood portions about it are that the RMD amount that has to come out, it's based on the prior years and balance of all of the pretax accounts. So you may have multiple accounts, you don't have to take an RMD out of each account. You just need to make sure that you take out the amount that is due, and you have the ability to be able to pick which account you want to take that out of, which really, at first thought that can seem more complicated. But if you're working with somebody it helps increase the ability to strategize and ladder your investments and use a bucket strategy where you can use short-term, mid-term, long-term strategies on your money, and have a little bit more flexibility on which account you're going to take money out of when.John: To jump on that, we went through that paycheck series when we talked about having a long-term bucket, and in some strategies that's where by being able to choose what IRA you draw from, you can just let that long-term bucket just continue to build up and not worrying about pulling out of it.Speaker 1: Gotcha. Okay. All right. So that gives us a good rundown, I think, through the traditional side of it, and gives us some basic class, if you will, on what these are. Of course, as the guys mentioned, they teach classes all the time. So if there's things you want to learn more about the IRA, the traditional IRA, and how you might be able to be using it or better using it as part of an investment vehicle, then always reach out to the team and have a conversation about that specifically. Because again, we just covered some basics and general things that apply to just about everybody here. But when you want to see how it works for your situation specifically, you always have to have those conversations one-on-one. So reach out to them, let them know if you want to chat about the traditional IRA, or how you can better use the vehicle, or change, or whatever it is that you're looking to do.Speaker 1: (813) 286-7776 is the number you call to have a conversation with them. You simply let them know that you want to come in. They'll get you scheduled and set up for a time that works well for you. That's (813) 286-7776. They are financial advisors at PFG Private Wealth in the Tampa Bay area. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, iHeart, Stitcher, whatever platform of choice you like to use. You can simply download the app onto your smartphone and search Retirement Planning Redefined on the app for the podcast. Or you could just simply go to their website at pfgprivatewealth.com. That's pfgprivatewealth.com. Guys, thanks for spending a few minutes with me this week talking about IRAs. So let's, next podcast, talk about the Roth side. We'll flip over to the cousins, okay?John: One more thing I want to mention before we go is withdrawing from the accounts of, let's say someone goes to retire above 59 and a half, and it's time to really start using this money as income. So it's just important to understand that whatever amount that you withdraw out of the IRA, assuming everything was pre-tax that went into it, it adds to your taxable income. So for example, if someone's pulling $50,000 out of their IRA, their taxable income goes up by $50,000 in a given year. So we just want to point that out, because as people are putting money into it, we sometimes do get questions of, when I take it out am I actually taxed on this, the answer is yes, if it was pretax put into it.Speaker 1: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, great point. Thanks for bringing that up as well. So I appreciate that. And again, folks, the nice thing about a podcast is you can always pause it, and you can always rewind it, replay it. If you're learning, trying to learn something useful, or get a new nugget of information here, that's a great thing about it. That's also why subscribing is fantastic. You can hear new episodes that come out, as well as go back and check on something that you were thinking about, and that way when you come to have that conversation, you can say, listen, I want to understand more about how withdrawals with my traditional IRA is going to affect me, or whatever your question might be. So again, guys, thanks for your time this week. I'll let you get back to work and we'll talk again soon.John: Thanks.Nick: Thanks.Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time here, folks, on the podcast. Again, go subscribe. We'd appreciate it on Retirement Planning Redefined with John and Nick from PFG Private Wealth.
Sometimes in life you need to make a call on whether or not a grudge is worth keeping, or if you are better off setting your differences aside for the greater good. It's a tough call, sure, but if you let that hate build up, the resulting release may spell more trouble than it's worth! You hear that, Nick? You are beneath me. Join us this week on Adventurific as the search for Jayla continues! However, as simple as i was figuring out WHERE she was being held, getting her out in one piece may be a bigger challenge than once thought. Don't worry, Skip is fully torqued, Tally is as bright as ever, and Quint knows how to get around unnoticed, but this time, he may not be alone in those shadows... So wire up those jaws and start blending your meals because on this week's HELL-RAISING episode of Adventurific, we are going for that sweet first round TKO!
In this week’s episode, The Big Leap, Part 3 we are continuing the journey with by Gay Hendricks and we are talking about the methods of self sabotage. 01:31 The Ultimate Life Tool I've been thinking a little bit about that zone of genius (as we have been discussing in this current series) and just how instructive can be for that. I was thinking about it for myself actually, and I was like, wow, you know, it really shows you so much of how you're built and what your natural styles are. And what I've noticed about that is everybody will have access to several different styles. But what's unique about it is you won't ever be in two styles at once. Nick 02:58 Upper Limiting So we're going to roll through these and just talk about them. It’s not an exhaustive list, but this is going to give some really good indicators of where to look when they start showing up. First one, worry. Worrying is usually a sign that we're upper limiting. It is usually not a sign that we're thinking about something useful. The crucial sign that we're worrying unnecessarily is when we're worrying about something that we have no control over. Nick 03:53 Worry is an Active State There are times you are gonna have a little worry about life. But also the thing I want everyone to get is that worry is such an active state. KISMA 06:14 There is Something You Can Do Well that is something to be said. Is there something that you can do when you're worried about people or worried about what's going to happen to them? Nick You can pray, you can meditate, you can do and then you have to get out of your worry. KISMA 08:33 Criticism and Blame The next one we've talked about a lot on this show, criticism and blame. Nick Get off the blame train. KISMA 10:50 A Receiving Problem The next one he talks about here is deflecting. This is an interesting one. Most of us crimp the flow of positive energy by avoiding it all together. The mechanism we use is what I call deflection. It's so common. We almost take it for granted in human life. Nick It’s a receiving problem. KISMA 14:23 A Cry for More Sometimes I think the deflecting is a cry for more compliments. It's like “Oh no, it wasn't that good” because we actually want to be fed more. KISMA You know that's an interesting thing that you pointed out, like you want more, but the whole reason you want more is because you're not letting it in. Nick 14:47 Genius Takes a backseat Oh, the next one. You're going to love this one. Squabbling. Arguments are one of the most common ways of bringing yourself down. When you've hit your upper limit, when things are going well, you can crimp the flow of positive energy quickly by starting a conflict, then the conflict develops a life of its own.The net effect, you drop back down into your zone of competence or zone of excellence. Genius takes a backseat. Nick 15:28 All of these are Distractions I feel like all of these are distractions because right in front of you is a big leap. And that big leap can be scary. It can be the first unknown. It can be the place where people start judging you or talking or raving about you. But somewhere it's like, ah, I'm not sure, so I'm going to get distracted and start doing these weird things. KISMA 25:26 Receiving We have so many tools Nick mentioned such as and KISMA Which leads me to my illuminated thought, which I said it earlier, release to receive, but we have to be aware in order to release. And then there's room for receptivity. And in this point, this is receiving your zone of genius. KISMA 27:09 Tune in Next Week Next week we will be bringing a number four in the series, which is going to be a mind bender. KISMA Yeah, it's one that we felt was really important because it's a conversation that people are always having around time and it's a very interesting take on how to work with time. Nick
Nick is a bonus episode! Do you know Nick? You should. He is a traveling lab tech and an Air Force veteran who spent his childhood as an army brat. We also want to take this time to thank all of our veterans, and veterans everywhere, past and present, for their service, sacrifice, bravery and dedication. Paper Airplanes Facebook: www.facebook.com/PaperAirplanesPodcast/ Are you a healthcare traveler with a story? Email us at podcast@fusionmedstaff.com or find us on Facebook.
It's time for part 2 of our discussion about one of the most challenging parts of transitioning into retirement, dealing with the fact that you're no longer receiving a paycheck from work. Today, we'll discuss specifically ways to get more comfortable with the transition from working to retirement.Helpful Information:PFG Website: https://www.pfgprivatewealth.com/Contact: 813-286-7776Email: info@pfgprivatewealth.com----more----Transcript of today's show: Speaker 1: The rules of retirement have changed. No longer can most of us rely on social security or a single pension to fund our futures. We're living longer in retirement, doesn't just last a handful of years anymore. Instead, you might stay retired for 20 or 30 years and maybe even more. We need to look at retirement through a new lens with fresh eyes, with a new approach and plan of attack. Here to answer the call are financial advisors, John Teixeira and Nick McDevitt at PFG Private Wealth Management, serving you throughout the Tampa Bay area. This podcast is retirement planning redefined, and it starts right now.Mark: Hey, welcome into another edition of Retirement Planning - Redefined with John and Nick, financial advisors at PFG Private Wealth, serving you here in the Tampa Bay area. We're going to talk about investing, finance and retirement as we usually do here on the program. And you can find John and Nick at their website at pfgprivatewealth.com. That's pfgprivatewealth.com. Of course, you can also give them a call and come and see them in their office in Tampa Bay at eight, one three, two, eight, six, 77, seven, six. That's eight, one three, two, eight, six, seven, seven, seven, six. If you hear something useful, interesting nugget on the program and you want to talk more about it before you take any action, always check with a qualified professional. Reach out to John and Nick, give them a call at that number. Eight, one, three, two, eight, six, seven, seven, seven, six. Guys, how you doing this week?John: I'm doing good. How are you?Mark: I'm hanging in there. Doing all right. Just surviving the summer, the dog days. How about you Nick? You doing all right?Nick: Yeah, doing pretty well. One of the things that we like to do is present on different retirement topics. And earlier today we did a lunch and learn or what we can refer to as a financial wellness presentation over at the University of South Florida at their College of Public Health.Mark: Oh nice.Nick: So that's something that we enjoy doing and covered a specific topic and something that we're looking to do more of.Mark: That's very cool. So yeah, lunch and learns. What'd you call it, financial wealth class?Nick: Wellness. Financial wellness-Mark: Wellness, I like that.Nick: Yeah.Mark: Was the turnout out, good people enjoy it?Nick: Yeah, it's usually a small, at those sorts of things it can be tough for people to get away. So usually we have somewhere between eight and 15 people in the room and we present for 45 to 50 minutes and just try to keep it light and really focused on a single subject at that period of time. We like to do that with different local companies as well. So it's something we enjoy doing.Mark: No, that's very cool. So if our listeners to the podcast want to be involved in those in the future, is that something they can reach out to you guys or find that on the website at all, or just give a call if they'd like to attend those things? Or are they kind of closed door deals?Nick: We usually go through the employer.Mark: Oh, okay. Oh, I gotcha. Okay.Nick: So if they are an employer, really no cost to the employer and it's definitely a benefit for their employees.Mark: Sure. Yeah.Nick: And we bring in lunch and go over a couple of different topics. But they can absolutely reach out to us and I'll let us know and connect us with whether it's an HR department or their employer.Mark: Yeah. Okay.Nick: Cover different topics.Mark: Very cool. Well, yeah. So if you're listening to the podcast and you think that might benefit your fellow employees or you're an employee yourself, give them a call. Eight, one, three, two, eight, six, seven, seven, seven, six. Ask about the lunch and learns or the wellness classes. So you guys, John, have both of you guys presented this thing or do you guys take turns?John: This one here we both did.Mark: Okay. Very good.John: We do a lot of stuff as a team.Mark: Nice. Very cool. Well good. That's exciting. We'll have to talk more about those in the future coming up. But I do want to address what we mentioned last week since we teed that up and I want to kind of go back to that conversation. We talked last week about just the stresses and some challenges of not having a paycheck anymore when we transition from working years to retirement years. And so let's talk a little bit now as I had mentioned about just some strategies on how to create that paycheck, if you will, from our nest egg.Mark: Now I think most of us realize we have to do this, but it becomes kind of ... It becomes daunting for people who just obviously don't do this all the time to think, "Well, how do I turn my IRA into income," and so on and so forth.John: There's a lot of different strategies to use. And when we do planning, we don't just say this the only one that worked. There's a lot of different ones and it's really depends on kind of how the person ticks, kind of what they're comfortable with and what their goals are. So we'll go through, we talk about a few of them, but we're not ... Whatever we talk about today, it's not going to be all of them.John: But you know, one that a lot of people feel comfortable with is where we do two years of cash reserves where we'll basically set up a separate account and almost be like a payroll account where that's where their money's going to filter from for the next roughly two years or so. And again, that number can change depending on the individuaL. But that's where if hey, they have social security coming in and pension, we'll look at, hey, what your income gap. So if their expenses are 50,000 and let's say social security covers 20,000 of that, basically we'll have this account that generates 30,000 a year and that might come up monthly.John: And that's one strategy. And what that will do is it'll provide a little bit of peace of mind, which we discussed last week, where hey, if the market does turn down, you have a special place where you can go and not be worried about, "Hey, do I need to pull on my investments while the market's down?"Nick: So the way that we'll kind of have that conversation with them is almost back into it and take them through a situation of, even if we go back to kind of 2008 where there was the great recession. And we go through and look at historical market and show them here's how long it took the market to bounce back. Even if we were to run into this sort of situation, how much would they specifically individually need? What would make them feel comfortable to hold in cash so that they wouldn't make a rash decision.Nick: And one of the things that we have kind of seen is that two year number seems to be a bit of a magic number for people. But ultimately it's getting them to start to almost program themselves to remind themselves that, hey, this is here. If these things happen, this is here. But overall, our goal is to have this mini strategy to help us implement our overall broad base strategy.Mark: We talked in the prior podcast when we were discussing this a little bit about the market and how it can affect people and make people nervous when they're first making that transition. And one of the pieces that I know that also gets when you're building the strategy to deliver that paycheck, you also have to plan for this to evolve through retirement. Because you got to plan, you got to put inflation in there. That's something that you've got to make sure that you're working on. You've got to look at all those little extra pieces that come in there. And that's why getting together with a good team to build to that good strategy is going to be helpful.Nick: Yeah. One of the ways that will ... It's become pretty popular and in the more in-depth retirement classes that we do teach, the six hour classes that we do at the local community colleges, refer to it as a bucket strategy, which a lot of people are familiar with. It's in a general sense. So the way that they'll identify with it is, we essentially say to them that, "We're going to task your money with different jobs." There's going to be a short term, mid term, a longterm. Those short term money is where we don't want to take the risk but that longterm money is the money that we want you to kind of think and remind yourself that we've got this 2030 year plan for you. And if you look in reverse in how you invested your money 20 or 30 years ago, this longterm money needs to be invested in the same sort of way. Focused on longterm growth to help make up for the money that you're going to spend in those shorter time periods.Nick: And we found that people definitely relate to that. They understand that and when they think about it from the standpoint of, instead of them working their money, that bucket of money is working longterm for them. People have been able to grasp that pretty well.Mark: I got you. Yeah, because we're talking definitely longterm. I mean obviously the number one fear is people running out of money before they run out of life. And just to veer off for a quick second. Do you happen to know who the oldest, not the ... No. But you take a guess at the age of the oldest person in the world right now. Either one of you.John: [inaudible 00:07:50] seven.Mark: What'd you say? One oh seven?Nick: Yeah, I'd probably go like one 15.Mark: Yeah, Nick, you're the winner. Actually you're closer. It's actually Mr. Tanaka, he's 116 years old. 116, can you imagine that? So I know that's like totally not the norm, it's the exception to the rule. But we're getting there more and more where when you guys are doing this, kind of to Nick's point a minute ago, you got to plan this stuff out a much longer to have these income streams past 80 or 85. You've got to be pushing this into the nineties a lot of times or maybe even a hundred, right?Nick: Yeah. When we plan, we always start off our plans planning to age 100. And we used to get heckled quite a bit from potential clients and existing clients about that strategy. But actually, because a lot of people that we work with come through our class, they see the importance of planning for longevity. And I would say probably in the last 18 months we've actually had people asking us, more than one, asking us to plan past a hundred. So I think that sentiment is actually starting to kind of permeate people's thinking and if they have longevity in their family, people have started to focus a little bit more on that. And making sure that they're focusing on being able to kind of stave off inflation and plan for longterm.Mark: Yeah, I just, I don't know if I'd want to be a 116. either one of you guys?John: I'm going to say no to that depending on what technology brings at that point.Mark: Right. I guess that's true. Yeah.John: As of now, no.Mark: What about you, Nick?Nick: I'd have to ask Mr. Tanaka what it's like.Mark: That's probably a good idea. I don't know, man. I just, I couldn't imagine it. But yeah, I mean that's going to become more than norm the more technology continues to go.Mark: So yep, well really good conversation here with the guys talking about the fact that you you've got to create a paycheck for retirement and you got to make sure that that nest egg is going to [inaudible 00:09:38]. So we covered a couple of cool things to think about. The cash reserve, the two years, the bucket strategy, the dividends, keeping the principle, income floor, all these kinds of things we touched on. So if you have some questions, if you have some concerns, you have some thoughts about it, make sure you reach out to the guys, give them a call. If you're interested in some of that wellness classes and lunch and learns, give them a call. Reach out to them at eight, one, three, two, eight, six, 77, seven, six. That's eight, one, three, two, eight, six, seven, seven, seven, six to talk with John and Nick, financial advisors at PFG Private Wealth, serving you in the Tampa Bay area, here from their office as well as in Tampa Bay. And pfgprivatewealth.com is where you can find them online. That is pfgprivatewealth.com.Mark: Guys, anything else you want to touch on this week before we go or shall we wrap it up until next time?John: I think we're good.Till I think we're good.Mark: All right, well with that I'll say thanks for tuning into the podcast. You've been listening to Retirement Planning - Redefined for John and Nick. I'm Mark. We'll catch you next time you're on the program.Speaker 1: PFG private wealth management LLC as an SEC registered investment advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.
We’re back this week and very excited to be discussing prosperity. We kick off the conversation with a new series: Being Prosperous. In this episode, Part 1, we cover the State of Mind of Prosperity. This conversation ties back to teachings that we’ve discussed in previous episodes, surrounding The Law Attraction. Quite simply, we attract what we are - so we think, we become. As with anything, challenges will arise - particularly when it comes to sustaining this mindset. We discuss tools, tips, tricks and practices that we can do realign ourselves, share insight into the Laws of Attraction and offers suggestions for how to identify if we’re existing in a space of limitation and chaos. We look forward to having you join us on this journey through prosperity. Hosts: Nick and Kisma Resources: Prosperity Code: Email Ultimate Life Tool: Email Time Stamps: 3:52 The State of Mind of Prosperity “The state of mind of prosperity, a prosperous mindset, it starts with focusing on what you have. On a very basic level, it starts with — and I’m using 'start' really intentionally — it starts with focusing on what you have and having gratitude.” - KISMA 11:27 Prosperous Thinking “Prosperous thinking would be ‘Wow, I hope everyone has great clients. There’s enough for everyone. I hope everyone has an amazing marriage or partnership or children because, wow, there’s enough love to go around.’ We don’t want to take from people to make ourselves feel better.” - KISMA 12:53 The Universe “The opportunities aren’t hiding. The Universe does not hide beauty. The Universe does not hide opulence. We cover our eyes and our mind with a veneer of doubt, so once that gets removed, we’re able to see all the opulence out there.”- KISMA 14:24 It’s Right Here “It’s right there for you. If you have a desire for it, it’s right there for you.”- NICK 23:33 Action “Take action, really take action and don't resist. If we don’t have what we want, somewhere we’re resisting. We might be resisting taking action, we might be resisting receiving, we might be resisting dropping the drama and the judgment of others — a whole bunch of things we’re resisting. When we think of something, when it’s in our mind, when we’ve got that mindset of prosperity, when we can imagine something, it’s ready to find us. It’s right there. Are we really ready to accept it and are we ready to lean into it? Leaning in, being the action. You know, we are creatures of action. We’ve been given a body, we’re on this planet and consistent action yields consistent results.” - KISMA 25:09 An Objective Mind Nick: It really comes back to that objectivity of the Vedanta teachings: Whatever is going on around you, let your mind be peaceful inside. Kisma: Exactly. When you’ve got the peaceful, objective mindset, you can handle anything. You can reframe it. You can change your perception. You can get through it. You can stay in action. That’s the prosperity mindset. Nick: You can find what’s trying to show up for you.
*increase team volume, secret mlm hacks, teach your downlines, the power of the internet Listen to a recent Secret MLM Hacks course member, Nick Bradshaw, as he tells us how is team volume nearly 20X'd after using these modern MLM recruiting principles... INSIDE SECRET MLM HACKS This is an interview that I've done with one of my good, Nick Bradshaw. He's got his own show but he wouldn't tell me what it is. You should track him down and ask him. We have about 500 people in the Secret MLM Hacks program. For the next few episodes, I'm actually going to share with you guys some of the interviews I've been doing with people who are in the program and share what's been happening. Nick has almost 20X-ed his team volume since using the Secret MLM Hacks methods, which is crazy. I didn't know it was that much! I thought it was just doubling, not 20X! He's going to walk through and talk about how he's been using this stuff and teaching the same strategies to his downline, which is ultimately what's been my goal in creating this stuff. It's not so that everybody has to join Steve Larsen. It's so that you can learn how to do this stuff on your own and then teach your downlines and explode stuff. A lot of MLMs are refusing to be influenced from the top down on the strategies that I'm teaching. I'm just telling you… This is the landscape of the atmosphere that we're in around here. A lot of big MLMs are not wanting to take on some of the strategies like the internet, which is ridiculous. It's because they don't know it themselves. They don't know how to train or teach on it. The strategy I've been teaching is actually to go from the bottom up. It's for the little guy. HOW TO TEACH YOUR DOWNLINES Secret MLM Hacks has been focused on training from the ground up. I don't care what MLM in you're in. That's why I'm not here pitching you guys all the time. I'll drop every once in a while what I'm in if you guys are interested, but that's not the purpose of it. The purpose of it is for me to go and influence MLM from the bottom up. To hand tools to people inside of MLMs from the bottom up who can go reteach it to their people and explode past their uplines. That's been the point and it's been working. We've had a lot more MLMs reaching out, asking things like, "Would you come build funnels for us?" I'm like, "Where were you when I was talking about it earlier?" It's flipped the whole table on its head. I have a very special guest today. Somebody I have been watching and seeing everything that has been going on... And I've been impressed. There’s not many people in MLM who use the power of the internet. I've got a very special guest for you today. It's very easy to see who is in MLM online because there aren't that many. When I first saw other people doing it I was like, “Oh my gosh I'm not alone!” I was so excited about it. I want to introduce you to and welcome Nick Bradshaw. SECRET MLM HACKS INTERVIEW WITH NICK BRADSHAW Steve: Hey man. Thank you so much for being on here. Nick: Dude it's been absolutely my pleasure. It really really is. Steve: It's gonna be awesome I'm pumped for it. Just so people understand more about what you do, tell me when you first got into MLM? Nick: I've been in the MLM game myself about two and a half years. Funny enough, my wife is actually the one who started all of this and I jumped in halfway through. It's really skyrocketed and taken off from there. My wife's been doing this for about five years. And during that time I was actually a car salesman. I was working 60 - 80 hour workweeks, every single week. When I started in car sales I had one kid and then next thing I know, I had two kids. I blinked three times and next thing you know I'm sitting next to a six and four year old kid. I'm like, “Where did all the time go?” I was burnt out on it. I had set all these goals and I had reached the goals. I had worked my way up the corporate ladder so I could provide for my family and let my wife be a stay at home wife. I got to that roadblock that said, “Where do I draw the line of how much time I'm spending at work versus how much time I'm spending at home?” From there it was like, “Alright, well what do I do? How do I remedy this, how do I fix it?” Steve: Something's gotta change, right? We've gotta shake it up a bit. WHAT IS INSIDE SECRET MLM HACKS? Nick: How do I be a better father to my kids? How do I be the father that I want to be rather than just the provider and someone that my kids don't even know? I was literally leaving for work before they woke up and I was coming home two hours after they'd already been in bed. That's where my journey started with MLM. My answer to all of that was, “I'm gonna jump on board and help my wife build this business”. And so that's what I started doing. I've got all these sales skills. I've been doing this hardcore sales stuff for five years now. My wife was relatively well. She was a silver rank in her company which equated to $2,500 a month. So I said, “Okay, if I'm gonna quit my job and I'm gonna do all of this, I’m gonna quit cold turkey”. Steve: You just up and left? Nick: Yeah, just up and left. I said, “I'm done”. Here's the crazy part… We moved from Indianapolis to Austin, Texas two months afterwards. We completely restarted. Hit the reset button. I've got all these sales skills and one of the things that I see really lacking inside of the MLM world was people knowing how to sell. So that was the problem that I said I can fix. I jumped into our team trainings and I started doing all of these things. I started teaching them menu selling (which is a car world term) but it's just narrowing down the options. Instead of giving them this huge, 16 page spreadsheet of all of these things that they can buy, you're gonna narrow it down and say, “Okay you have this option, this option or this option.” HOW TO INCREASE TEAM VOLUME WITH SECRET MLM HACKS I started doing that and in four months, our team volume jumped from $30,000 a month to $80,000 a month. Steve: Wow, big jump. Nick: Yeah big jump. Just within a couple of months of just getting people to understand how the sales process actually works and implementing those skills. But then we really came to a plateau. You can only do so much to the customer base that you already have. Steve: Right. You need some more people eventually. Nick: Eventually you need more people. That was the brick wall that I ran into at that point. I was like “Okay, so how do I do this?” Marketing, duh. If sales pushes and marketing pulls, I need to pull more people into this business. But I had no idea how to do it because I'm not a marketer. I've been doing sales my entire life. And honestly, that's when I found Steve Larsen. I started listening to Secret MLM Hacks and I signed up to ClickFunnels. From there… I failed. Miserably. On my face. Steve: Sure. We pretty much all do the first few rounds. Nick: I jumped in and I'm like, “Oh this is gonna be awesome! I'm listening to you but I'm not really hearing you”, you know what I mean? Steve: I always laugh when people are like, “I've heard this training before”, and I'm like, “No it takes a few rounds, go again.” Nick: I jumped in and started building these funnels and I'm like, “This is going to be awesome” and then I hit launch... And I launch that first funnel and nothing. It was just crickets and I'm like, “Alright, back to the drawing board”. INCREASE TEAM VOLUME WITH CLICKFUNNELS I paused my ClickFunnels account because I realized that I didn’t have the skills that I need to be successful doing what I'm doing. Steve: Right. Nick: That's when I really jumped into it and I remember the time specifically. I was at a leadership retreat which is an invite only retreat for a company. I had just gotten Expert Secrets and Dot Com Secrets. I bought the black book with the funnel hacker's cookbook and all of that. And I brought it with me. I'm sitting in our hotel room and I started reading Expert Secrets and I didn't put it down. I went all through the night and the next morning. When it was time to get up and go to the retreat I was still sitting there with my book on page 240 or something like that. All of these things just started hitting me and it was like the fire was lit. I started really consuming and I even started hacking Secret MLM Hacks. Steve: I noticed that's what you were doing. I watch a lot of people do that which is great and I think they should model it. Nick: When I was hacking Secret MLM Hacks somehow, someway I ended up in the membership site and I hadn't paid for it. I messaged you and I'm like, “Dude, I have no idea how this happened but I'm here.” Steve: We were in the middle of tweaking some stuff. Yeah, I remember that. It's not that way anymore. Nick: It's not that way anymore. A whole new revamped course and everything. I got there and I started watching your videos, consuming and I implemented. For my relaunch basically modeled exactly what you were doing. This was probably seven months ago, eight months ago? HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO INCREASE TEAM VOLUME? Steve: A while ago now, yeah. Nick: Since then we went from$80,000 a month in volume to averaging about $150,000 a month in volume. Steve: WHAT? I didn't know it was that big dude… Are you serious? Nick: Yeah. In the past 12 months, we've done a little over $1.5 Million. Steve: So you're saying it works? Nick: I'm saying it works dude. That's probably about the time that you really started noticing me singing your praises. I'm sitting here inside of my own business and I'm watching these things grow and accumulate exponentially. And I'm trying to teach this stuff to my team and get it through their heads… There's no other way! Steve: I don't know another way either. I'm not making fun of you who are like, “I love talking to friends and family. I love going to home and hotel meetings”. Good on you. But you can only do that for so long. It's so much better to have something automated. Nick: Yeah, absolutely. I start learning more about marketing and it's a constant learning curve obviously. But you know that? It’s so true that MLM is a personal growth opportunity with an income opportunity attached to it. Steve: Right. Nick: That's what it is. It's a great way to start for the traditional person who doesn't know anything about marketing or sales. You can start talking to family members and friends and doing all of that. But the reason that 99% of us out there are failing is because we don't ever move past that portion of it. The growth never happens and where we get into real marketing or real sales. PERSONAL GROWTH WITH SECRET MLM HACKS Steve: Reaching out to your network only gets you so far. After a while you have to learn how to attract more people, market to them, change beliefs, sell and close. It's funny when people are like, “I'm just gonna treat this like a hobby.” You're not going anywhere then, sorry. It's a business not a hobby. Nick: That’s the way that I see this. We talked about this the other day. The way that I see MLM moving, the way that I see this momentum going... It's having a rebirth, almost. If you've lived in our world, it's changing the way that it's happening. We're slowly moving out of those 1960's origins and moving to 2020. You're seeing a lot more sales and marketing professionals get into the game. I'm trying to teach everybody that, I'm trying to show everybody that. If you're not moving in the direction that things are going, you're going to become extinct. You're going to have real professionals in this game, doing things, exploding and leaving everybody else in the dust. Steve: There are social media platforms that were never around until 10 years ago. The distribution channels that exist now are massive and you can tap into them for near nothing. Most MLMs are mad when you go do that kind of stuff. What is wrong with you? You could be selling so much more if you just use them! It doesn't mean you have to be on Facebook saying “MLM”. What are you guys are doing right now that's working best for you? I'm just interested in that, because the course is big. Secret MLM Hacks is not a small course. What is it in there that has been most helpful so far? TEACH YOUR DOWNLINES WITH SECRET MLM HACKS STRATEGIES Nick: The thing that I think that's been most helpful… It's just gotta be the confidence to go out and PUBLISH. Steve: Oh yes. Nick: The confidence to go out and publish and talk about what you're doing. It's one thing to sit there and learn it for yourself. It's another to go out and actually teach people what you're doing. Steve: Sure. Nick: Not only because, in my personal opinion, I think that you learn it better and but you learn how to communicate it better. The more that we've been publishing, the more that we've been putting it out there, the more that it attracts people. Steve: Sure. What's being published right now? Is it a podcast right now? Nick: I've started a small little podcast at the moment. Steve: What is it called? Feel free to shout it out. Nick: I don't know if I want to at this point... Steve: That's okay then, never mind. Nick: I'm still trying to find my voice. My wife's Instagram account has been blowing up. She's got 42,000 followers right now. Steve: That's big. Nick: We do a lot of not direct marketing there. More like back page marketing. Steve: Sure, that's one of my favorite kinds. Especially in MLM. Nick: I modeled you and I set up my own little course. I started targeting people who want to make money online. The people who actually want to own a business. Not people who want to do a hobby. Sending people through that mini-course has yielded great results. THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND MLM Steve: That's awesome. What does your funnel look like right now? I talk so much about funnels, and most of the MLM world is still very new to the funnel term and concept. But what is it that you guys are doing right now? Nick: The big thing we're doing right now is the little mini course which basically teaches marketing for MLM. Steve: Sure, that's awesome. Nick: The big idea behind that is, if you want to recruit more people into MLM and you don't want to talk to your friends and family, then: You have to target people who actually want to own a business but people who aren't necessarily getting the results that they want out of the current business that they're in. Setting up this little mini course that teaches people how to market. People who actually want to learn how to market their MLM. Then we invite them to join the downline. At the end of this course I affiliate for you and I say, “Hey, there's two ways that you can learn this…” Steve: Which I see by the way, thank you. Nick: “... You can either go join Steve's Secret MLM Hacks and learn it from the master. Or you can join my downline and I'm gonna teach you exactly what I'm doing to grow my downline to do $1.5 Million per year.” You can say in your current business and learn from Steve or you can join me and learn from me. Catching that low hanging fruit, I suppose. Taking advantage of the way that the current MLM system is. You have so many people that are unsatisfied with the business that they have because they're not learning the things they need to run their business. TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE TEAM VOLUME Steve: Which reeks of opportunity for the rest of us who actually know what the heck's up. Nick: Exactly. That's exactly what it is. It's kind of like a smorgasbord of low hanging fruit. Steve: It is, yeah. Nick: As far as extra recruiting goes and getting new people, it's great when people actually want to use the product, they believe in the product, they love the product and all of those things. That's an amplifier but it's not a requirement. Steve: So you guys have a course, you're selling, you're driving traffic to the course and then on the back you’re saying, “Hey, if you want to come join, this is what we've got”. Nick: Exactly. Steve: That's awesome. I was filming some training for my own team three weeks ago now. And I just wrote RECRUITING. That is what most MLMs teach you and the method for it is just walk around. Think about the power of what we're doing with this stuff. We're taking the recruiting model and replacing something in front of it so that we're not actually promoting the MLM. How long did it take you to create your course? Nick: I created the course in about seven days. Steve: RIGHT? It's not crazy, man. You create this course so then you're no longer promoting an MLM. So Facebook is okay with you suddenly. You drive traffic to that and take the money to dump it right back into ads. It's amazing and it changes the whole model. It's literally INFO PRODUCT + MLM. Mashing together two different industries. Are you doing phones sales as well? Closing them on the phone? TEACH YOUR DOWNLINES THE POWER OF THE INTERNET Nick: To a degree yes. I will offer that to people and I have an application process (modeled after you). Nine times out of 10 when someone goes through the application process, I set up my auto-responder. My email service will kickback a set of emails that walk them through the process of setting up their account. Then I've done an automated overview. A business overview that teaches them about the company. During this entire time, I never even mention my company's name. Steve: This is the craziest part! Same thing! Nick: I've literally modeled what you've done. Steve: I LOVE IT! Nick: For months my entire office was covered with print out after print out of exactly what you did. Once I finally mapped it out in my head, it was more about the concepts at hand. Another thing that I think a lot of people struggle with inside of the funnel world is that they think it's about pages. Steve: Right yeah, it's not. Nick: It about the framework. What is the state of mind that he's putting every single person in? Once I finally understood the framework behind it, I knew that's why I failed the very first time that I tried ClickFunnels. Because I thought that it was just all about pages. But once I understood the core framework and moving somebody through the funnel and how that's done, then all of a sudden it made sense. Steve: Right. INCREASE TEAM VOLUME WITH SELF-LIQUIDATING OFFERS Nick: One of the coolest things that happened out of all of this and how I feed this recruiting machine is by putting self-liquidating offers throughout the course. The course is dripped out over five days and on each day there's a small self-liquidating offer. Whatever I talk about that day, I then give them an offer to say, “Hey, if you want to learn this more in depth right now, click this”. Then it goes to a new page with a little sales video for an offer for $7. Right now it's $1.50 per opt in on the front end and on the back end it's churning out $38. Steve: You're speaking louder than whole MLMs even know how to! Nick: Exactly and it pays for itself 17 times over. I'm paying myself to recruit people. Steve: Last week on Secret MLM Hacks we put $1400 in and we got $20,000 back out (not including how many people got recruited and then they get handed the same recruiting systems). I don't know how it fails. The biggest issue is the education. Most MLMs don't know how to do this which is understandable. It's a newish thing. What would you tell to somebody who is on the fence about trying this? ON THE FENCE ABOUT SECRET MLM HACKS? Nick: The biggest thing that I would tell people is fail and fail fast. Just do it. When we over think it, nothing ever gets done. I'm a perfectionist myself which is why I listened to Secret MLM Hacks 18 months ago and I just started doing this six to eight months ago. It wasn't really until the last three months that it really took off. I’m still constantly tweaking and doing things to it but the fact is that I just did it. I finally put down the pen, I finally put down the book and I went out there and I did it. Then I hit publish and I wasn't scared to feed the machine up front and put a little bit of money into it. Nothing is ever gonna get done if I just sit here and read books. The knowledge is great... Steve: But nothing happens. Nick: You just gotta do it. Be active in your pursuit of what you want. Steve: Be clear about the fact that this is not a hobby. We've treated this like an actual business. We've got phone closers, we're talking to people and training. I hate when someone joins because they're trying to do you a favor. Then they're wondering why they don't go build. You recruited the wrong who! We gotta change your who altogether! Nick: Every bum on the side of the street needs an opportunity. Steve: Right! Nick: I live in Austin and if you walk down downtown Austin you're guaranteed to see about 10 every 100 yards. They might NEED an opportunity, but they don't' want it. You gotta find those people that actually WANT to succeed in whatever it is that you're doing. DO YOU WANT THE SECRET MLM HACKS OPPORTUNITY? Steve: Dude I am so thankful that you got on here. Thank you so much for sharing. I did want to ask one last question. How many people have you been recruiting since you turned it on six months ago? Nick: I would say we're probably getting five to seven a month. Steve: That's awesome! On autopilot? Nick: Yeah, on autopilot. Steve: And the quality of person is really high which is awesome. Nick: Five to seven a month is what we're recruiting into our organization and we get paid for a lot of people that say no to us as well. Steve: Yeah, they bought the thing up front which is the beauty of it. Nick: And I say five to seven, that's five to seven that we ACCEPT. Steve: We get three to four applicants a day but I immediately cut out at least half off them because I can just tell… Nick: Once you get to a certain point, you have to be able to say no. You have to self-select and be able to weed out people because otherwise it just becomes too overwhelming. Steve: Then you turn into a life coach rather than a “Here’s what we're doing in our company this week” coach. Nick: Exactly. Steve: With love, I'll say that as tenderly as I can. Nick, thank you so much for being on here, I really appreciate it. This was awesome, man. Really means a lot that you jumped on. HEAD OVER TO SECRET MLM HACKS NOW I know it's tough to find people to pitch after your warm market dries up, right? That moment when you finally run out of family and friends to pitch. I don't see many up lines teaching legitimate lead strategies today. After years of being a lead funnel builder online I got sick of the garbage strategies most MLMs have been teaching their recruits for decades. Whether you simply want more leads to pitch or an automated MLM funnel, head over to secretmlmhacks.com and join the next free training. There you're gonna learn the hidden revenue model that only the top MLMers have been using to get paid regardless if you join them. Learn the 3-step system I use to auto recruit my downline of big producers without friends or family even knowing that I'm in MLM. If you want to do the same for yourself, head over to secretmlmhacks.com. Again that’s secretmlmhacks.com.
Episode 36 GA Airport Platform Claire: Good day, thank you for tuning in on 5 Minutes with AOPA-China. I’m Claire. Nick: Hello guys, Nick’s here. Last episode, we talked about sport aircraft pilot license, today the theme is GA airport. Where to find the GA airport information? Claire: sure, using a search engine is one way, but you may not find what you want so easily. AOPA-China has done some work on it, which you may find it useful. Nick: You may be surprised, but it was true that I didn’t even know about GA airports until I came to AOPA-China. I thought there were just two civil aviation airports in Beijing: Beijng Capital International and Nanyuan Airport. Claire: there was this quiz question in our 5 PM Aviaiton Quiz, how many airports are there in Beijing? How many do you know? Nick: now I know the answer. There are 7 excluding Daxing International Airport which will be ...
We sit down and talk about Black Texas Magazine with Founder, Editor & Chief Nickholas Bailey.Learn about Black Texas Magazine here:https://www.blacktexasmag.com/TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, you're listening to a B-Side. Now, yes, we've introduced the purpose of a B-Side before, but remember, every episode is what? That's right, somebody's first episode. So for our new folks, B-Sides are essentially random shows that we have in-between our larger shows. These are much less structured and somehow--that's right, you even guessed it--it's more lit. That's right. So there's lit. This is more lit than our regularly scheduled shows. Sometimes they're discussions that the hosts have. Sometimes they're extended monologues from just one particular host like myself or Ola or Latricia or Ade, or sometimes, yes, maybe even sometimes, maybe even most times, they're a special chat with a special guest. Today, we have a special guest - Nickholas Bailey. Nick Bailey is the editor-in-chief of Black Texas Magazine, a media outlet that is dedicated to enriching the lives of people of color across the state and beyond by connecting on a personal level through a passion for leading fulfilling lives. Welcome to the show, man. How you doin'?Nick: I'm doing well, how are you?Zach: I'm doing good, man. Look, let's talk about Black Texas Magazine. Where did it start, why the name, and what are y'all trying to achieve?Nick: Well, Black Texas started kind of as a jumping point for me because prior to this, or about--oh, I guess about a year prior to this I was the online editor for a publication called Texas Lifestyle Magazine. Great publication. They've done a lot of great stuff, but as I--as I got further into it, I started to recognize that there was a disconnect between my perspective and the perspective that they were--that they were creating. You know, like, I live a very different lifestyle than the people that they target, you know? I'm not accustomed to paying $300 for a charcuterie board or paying, you know, $1,000 for, you know, a grill set. It just wasn't really my--it wasn't really my thing, and I was pushing for some more relatable content for the average Texan, and it just wasn't--there was a disconnect there, and so after a lot of thinking and a lot of planning I decided to make the jump and create a publication for black people that was essentially the same thing in some ways. Like, I don't want to say that we just copied and pasted the formula because, you know, unfortunately I created a lot of the formula for Texas Lifestyle once I came on, but I would say that our goal is to enrich the life of black Texans and really Texans of all colors by exposing them to new brands, new opportunities, and new experiences that they may not have previously known about or they may not have previously felt like were open to them, you know? So I know for a lot of--for a lot of black people in the community, we--we almost self-segregate with a lot of things, you know? We look at things as, "Oh, that's white people stuff. We don't really--we don't really mess with that," whether it be, you know, simple stuff or the wild stuff like bungee jumping or skydiving, which I'm still kind of on the fence on. Like, they might be able to keep those. [laughs] But even things like, you know, eating at different restaurants or trying different festivals and experiences. Just really making it more palatable for--you know, for the black community, because there are plenty of people in the black community that say, "Hey, I want to live life. I've only got one life. I want to enjoy it while I'm here," and finding the opportunities for them that will enhance their lives is really the big overarching goal for us, but also highlighting the black businesses that are trying that as well along the way.Zach: So it's interesting, right? So I looked at the platform, and, you know, I think what I was taken most aback by was the amount of content, right? Like, you guys--it seems like you guys are publishing something every single day, and so talk to me a little bit about y'all’s challenges in getting this started up and, you know, what goes into managing a digital magazine. How do you juggle--it seems that there's a lot of hats to juggle. It seems that there's a lot of things to do, and I understand that you're also working full-time still.Nick: Yes.Zach: So how do you manage all of that?Nick: I manage that with a lot of stress--a lot of stress, not a lot of sleep, and an overdose of patience, because we do have a small team. We're always looking--like, we're always looking for new writers to bring on-board, but right now we do have a small team, and it's really just a matter of balancing everyone's talents and abilities. Like, for the time being I take on the burden--I take on the bulk of the burden by handling a lot of the administrative tasks. So, like, making sure that content is up on the website, proofreading the content, gathering all of the materials. So that might be, like, getting the photos in order, sorting it--like, sorting our files and documents online. So I do a lot of that stuff, and so I have the writers, and I say, "Hey, I want you to focus on writing," and the plan that I have right now is really to kind of spread that load across--across the team so no one person is having to do all of the writing. 'Cause everybody--like, to my knowledge, everybody else is working full-time somewhere as well. So what I would rather them do is each person write, you know, one or two things a month, and we could be able to keep a steady flow than expecting one person to churn out, you know, a new article every week, you know? And with balancing it with working--like, I work full-time, and for me it's kind of difficult 'cause I work 12-hour shifts. So a lot of my work is done--I guess done at night, so I'm usually up until about 1:00 in the morning making sure that content is looking good, there's no errors and we're gonna be good to go.Zach: So I have another question as a follow-up, right, really to the title of Black Texas Magazine. Has anyone run up on you with, "If we had a White Texas Magazine, that would be racist?"Nick: Not that directly, but it's been one of those side--like, side-swiped questions. Like, "Hm, why is it just for black people?" And kind of insinuating that, and to that I would say, to be honest, most of the public--like, most of the Texas-based publications we have are catered to a white audience. And, you know, I'm not opposed to--I'm not opposed to acknowledging that it may seem--it may come off as a bit contentious to say, "This is a publication for black people," you know, but at the same time it's never been a situation of, you know, "No whites allowed," you know? We've had--we've had white contributors to our publication. We have a lot of white readers. We have readers all over the world, and most of those aren't, you know, nations of color. And so I would say if they want--if they asked the question or they posed the question or the statement "If we had a White Texas Magazine, that'd be racist," I would tell them, "Well, let's go read Texas Highways. Let's go read Texas Monthly. Let's go read Texas Lifestyle." The list could go on. Most publications are catering to a white audience. Like, they may not be as blatant as to say it, but it's one of those--I would say it's one of those underlying things of once you see the subject matter you--there are ways of siphoning out certain groups by the content.Zach: Right. And, you know, it's funny because I think it's easy to forget that white is the default, right? Like, it's--like, you don't have to call something for it to be--the majority of the country is white, so most of the content out there in any type of media is largely going to be white, right? So you don't have to call--I don't have to call something white, something anything, but you do call things--you know, if there is other underrepresented groups, black, XYZ, or Asian-this or Latin-X or Hispanic-this because we're trying to highlight the fact that this is not the default, right? It's not what you immediately consider when you think about whatever audience or population that you're gonna be engaging. Okay, so let me ask you this. You know, you guys landed J Prince recently, [inaudible] J Prince, but how did that happen for you guys? Like, how did it work, and what was that experience like?Nick: For me, honestly, it was an amazing experience. I lucked into it because I got--I got an email from the city of Austin about an event that they were co-hosting. It was just an evening with J Prince where he was just hearing Austin talking about his life, and I went, and I was like--I didn't know what to expect, and I was just like, "Man, I just want to see this guy in person, see, you know, really what he's about and just kind of, you know, measure him up instead of just looking through a screen," and it was a cool event. The event went off really well, and at the end there was a line to, like, you know, take a picture with him and stuff, and I was like, "Okay, cool." You know, "I don't mind getting a picture with J Prince. That'd be kinda cool," and so I get in line, and as always they're trying to sell the book or sell merchandise and stuff like that, and just out of, you know, the spur of the moment I'm like, "I'll buy the book," and so I get the book, and when it's my turn he autographs the book and everything, and I ask him a question, and the question I asked him is, you know, "Hey--" Like, he talks about--he talked a lot about, you know, replacing IGs with OGs in terms of, you know, getting off of social media and really linking up with people that have done what we do before us and really gaining some knowledge from them, especially, like, in different entertainment avenues. A lot of the OGs that we came up with came up through nefarious ways, you know? They sold drugs, they robbed people. They committed crimes to get the assets that they needed, and so I asked him, you know, "How can we look up to these OGs and get advice from them when we're at a age where we don't want to take those penitentiary chances to make it into the industry?" And I think it kind of--it kind of put him on the spot, and he stopped and he said, "You know what? Talk to me after the show."Zach: You asked him--you asked him that in front of a bunch of people?Nick: No, it was--like, it was a one-on-one thing. I asked him, like, face-to-face, maybe two feet away from him.Zach: Oh, my gosh. Well, shout out to you for asking J Prince such a very pointed question to his face.Nick: You can't get the answers you don't ask for.Zach: [laughs] That's a good point.Nick: You know? 'Cause I would love to be in different indust--like, involved in different industries, but I don't wanna have to go sell coke to get the money for it.Zach: Straight up, yeah.Nick: But at the same time, trying to save money from a regular 9-to-5 is a very slow process.Zach: And this is the thing I think people forget, like, man, the blessing of an--you cannot, you cannot undervalue initial capital, man. Like--so you know, like, even when you talk about Jay-Z's album, the last album he dropped right, and he was talking about how I flipped this, and it's like, "Well, Jay-Z, man, you started off with, like, 400 racks. You had $400,000 from the coke game, so you say." So it's like, "Okay, yeah." If you--if you gave a very ambitious, you know, entrepreneurial person of color $400,000, man, that's gonna--yeah, they could flip that into something too. I'm not saying--they might not flip it into a billion, but they can flip it into something because they have the initial capital. So to your point, like, how--that just was such a good question because, like, okay, I'ma talk--if I talked to Jay-Z for an hour, people would say, "I'd love to talk to Jay-Z for an hour 'cause then I would learn how to be a billionaire." It's like, "Well, Jay-Z's gonna be like, "Well, I had initial capital of $400,000 because I sold drugs, and it was tax free. So I basically started with a 400--" Like, most black people don't have seed money, hundred thousand dollar seed money. They have a little bit of change here and there that they scrounge up, like you said. Like, that they hold over from their full-time job after paying off this and paying off that and whatever debt they have, and they have, you know, a little bit of change, not enough money to build an empire. You know what I'm saying?Nick: Absolutely, and that was--and after listening to Jay-Z's album, that was one of the things that I kind of left with. I was like, you know, "He talks a lot about, you know, these amazing ways to do better," and it's one of those things of "If you knew better, you'd do better." And that's cool. Like, I would love to buy a piece of art that's worth, you know, 1 million, hold it until it's worth 2 million, sell it when it's worth 10 million. That's cool. I would love to be able to give that to my children, but I gotta get that first million.Zach: Right. [laughs]Nick: It's easy--it's easy to compound wealth once you have it, and a lot of rappers talk about that part, but they don't really tell us how we can get the money, how we can get started without selling drugs, without robbing people. That's--like, that's the link they never give us, and I think that unfortunately that's because a lot of them don't have the answer for that, aside from "Sell drugs. Rob people." And that's an unfortunate truth. Like, I get it, that's the environment they came up in, but if we're trying to do better now we need new lessons.Zach: Right, right. So let me ask--let me ask you this. What advice would you have for black and brown folks trying to get, you know, multi-effort ventures off of the ground? So you have a full-time job. You've launched a magazine. It takes multiple hands, driving it and grinding it. It clearly--like you said earlier, it's stress. It's late nights. What are you--what advice would you have for folks who look like us trying to do similar things?Nick: The strongest advice I would give is work together. In college I ran a midterm program, and one of the things I taught was the idea of collective development. You know, especially if you're starting off with little to no capital. You're--like, you're working at a point where you're not getting paid. You need to find a team of people who are willing to work with you to build something up that benefits everybody, you know? Like, Black Texas isn't just me. It's not the Nick Bailey show, you know? My byline comes up very little. For me, I look at it as a plat--as I'm creating a platform to advance the careers of other people, you know? Because as we gain our audience and as we, you know, get that brand retention, that brand recognition, people start coming to the website looking for other people. They're not looking for me, you know? They're looking to see, "Oh, let's see what's up with these movie reviews. Let's see what's up with these fashion tips. Let's see what's up with these house-keeping tips." You know, "What events are coming up?" I want--I want people looking for the thoughts and ideas of other people, and for me in my particular situation I can say, "Hey, I can't pay you to write right now, but what I can give you is an opportunity to grow your name," because not everybody has the money to start up a website, you know? Even the cheapest websites that aren't free aren't cheap. Once you get past the, you know, this is BrandXYZ.WordPress.com and you get to just Brand.com, it becomes a different--a different financial burden, and not everybody--not everybody is willing to take that risk, and I've gotten to a point where I took that risk to--ideally to make it easier for other people. So I would say, you know, one, be willing to work together. Understand the vision. Don't just work for anybody, but understand the vision. Understand what it means for you personally and how it's going to benefit you personally, and then you give it your all, you know? Like, that's the truest thing that I can tell anyone, and also set ego aside, you know? Not everybody's going to be #1, and not everybody needs to be #1. You can easily do amazing as a strong #2, and what I mean by that is not everybody has to be a CEO. Not everybody has to be the founder, the president. You know? Like, I don't introduce myself as the founder or CEO of Black Texas because that's not important to me, you know? I want this to be something much bigger than myself. I'm the editor-in-chief, which is just to say I'm the guy steering the ship right now, you know? Like, I don't look at the--I don't look at the Dallas Cowboys and think of who the owner is, I look at the Cowboys and think of who are their star players, you know? Who are the people who made the team breathe? And that's how I look at--that's how I look at Black Texas and really any business, you know? We know--we know who Mark Zuckerberg is. That's cool. He made it that way. He's not the one looking at all this Russia info. He's not the one making sure that you wind up in Facebook jail for some post, [laughs] and those people may not have the fame, but they're getting us all a paycheck.Zach: Right. Right, right. Man, this has been dope, man. Do you have any shout outs for us?Nick: I did not think of shout outs. Let's see. If there are people I'd shout out, honestly I would just give shout outs to my team. It's been--like, we launched this year mid-January, and it's been a wild ride along the way. I've taken risks. I've asked them to follow me, and they have, and we really--we really made a lot of strides this year, and I'm proud to see the work they're putting in and what we're able to accomplish when we work together, you know? This is the first time that I've really steered a team like this, and to see them, you know, putting up the hard work is honestly amazing. I would want to give a shout out to my family, you know? Like, I love my daughters, but most importantly, like, my parents. They have been a well of support for me. They've encouraged me to, you know, chase my dreams. They've helped me when I--like, when I wasn't sure about myself, and, you know, my grandma's been my day one, and she's helped me in life as well, but I don't know. I would say--if I had to give a specific shout out it would be to my father, and that's because he gave me the capital to get this magazine started, you know? 'Cause, like, every year he'll give--like, he'll give a gift for Christmas, which really isn't a gift to me, it's more of a "Hey, here's some money from me. Get gifts for the girls," because he doesn't really--he doesn't really celebrate Christmas. Different religion. That's not really his thing, and so I get it, but this last year he gave me a little more than usual, and he said, you know, "Take this and do what, you know, you feel you need to do with it," and I was just at a loss, and I thought and I thought about it. I strategized, and I prayed over it, and I said, "You know, I have to be willing to take that jump," you know? It called me back to a quote from Steve Harvey talking about getting to success, and he said, you know, "You have to be willing to jump. You can't be successful on the ledge," and so I went for it. And so, you know, I've got to give it my all because I can't--I can't let folks down. That's not my thing.Zach: Awesome, man. Well, look, that does it for us, guys. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at LivingCorporate, Twitter at LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. If you have a question you'd like for us to answer on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You have been listening to Nick Bailey, editor-in-chief of Black Texas Magazine. Peace.Kiara: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.
In this Podcast, you’ll learn: How to stay focused, clear and confident How to overcome anxiety Building a loyal online community The apps Alex uses to plan IG content & What she thinks of her boyfriend Nick You’ve got even more questions. She can’t wait to answer them. Alex gets in her zone with a hot list of burning questions from yours truly: YOU. Welcome to the second installment of Q&Alex, where she answers a wide range of questions from Staying Focused on your Goals to Finding your Online Tribe, and everything in between. Welcome to On Purpose.
When I first came across Circa, the blog of the North Carolina Museum of Art (NCMA), I could immediately tell that they recognized the amazing potential of the blog platform. With its weekly schedule, high-quality stories, rich media, and even its own name, Circa is far more than a museum...blog. I spoke with Karen Kelly, the Senior Editor at NCMA. She has been managing NCMA’s blog since it was relaunched as Circa. We talked about the role of the museum’s blog, how she gets participation from a wide array of museum staff, and how she manages to keep it all organized and consistent. **FULL TRANSCRIPT** Hi, and welcome to What’s On. I’m Nick Faber, Director of Content Strategy at Cuberis. My guest today is Karen Kelly, senior editor at the North Carolina Museum of Art. And we’re going to be talking about the museum’s blog. In my job, I spend a lot of time looking at museum websites, and one pain point that I often find is the museum blog. I did an unscientific study for an article we wrote a few months ago, and out of 100 museum websites I looked at, only 51 had blogs. 8 of those hadn’t been updated in over a year. I could just imagine someone sitting at their desk, asking, “What should I write today?” And I guess if the answer is unclear, it’s easier to write nothing at all. Which is a shame. Your museum is full of more stories than you can fit in your physical space, and a blog is the easiest solution for telling them online. But without any strategic focus or planning, the blog can become an afterthought. When I first came across Circa, the blog of the North Carolina Museum of Art, or NCMA, I could immediately tell that they recognized the amazing potential of the blog platform. With its weekly schedule, high-quality stories, rich media, and even its own name, Circa is far more than a museum...blog. I spoke with Karen Kelly of NCMA. She’s a writer and editor and has been managing NCMA’s blog since it was relaunched as Circa. She talked about the role of the museum’s blog, how she gets participation from a wide array of museum staff, and how she manages to keep it all organized and consistent. First, I asked her about her position of Senior Editor at the museum. KAREN: Well, as you say, I work as a writer and editor at the museum and I'm positioned at the nexus of several departments. Of course, marketing and publications, and interpretation and curatorial, and also membership and development. So, juggling a lot. If there's a baseball analogy--which there isn't--but if I had to come up with one it would be shortstop, third base coach, catcher, batboy, and groundskeeper. A lot of groundskeeping. So how does the blog fit into that? I work with an associate editor--I have to--who is priceless. So what comes across an editor's desk at a museum is anything from exhibition scripts to the humble business card. Beautifully designed catalogs to restaurant menus and anything that we produce that has text on it. So I collaborate with teams on creating content, and also refining content, and joining in on those conversations about how to communicate to the public in the most effective way. The blog is a part of that, and also a part of our marketing scheme, but it's very Janus-faced. It looks both at how can we create content that extends the mission of our exhibition, but also how do we draw people to our exhibitions, and I think a blog post can do both. NICK: You mentioned helping to fulfill the mission of the exhibitions, how does that fit into the overall mission of the museum? KAREN: So it's part of our marketing campaign, but it's integrated into our exhibition goals and our marketing goals. Our goals for our permanent collection, and our goals for getting folks to the museum, but also informing them and luring them to the museum. I don't think we could sustain the blog if it weren't integrated. And it came about as the direct result, I'm frank to say,
The Heartland guys sit down with MMA legend Chris "Lights Out" Lytle and give their "Donkey of the Week," take listener questions, play "Fact or Fiction," and share how they would "Change the World." How does the punctuation look on this, Nick? You rat bastard.
Click above to listen in iTunes... I LOVE video…. And traffic. I have over 200 videos on Youtube now and here's what I wish I'd known… Steve: Hey, everyone. This is Steve Larsen. Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio. Announcer: Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio where you'll learn marketing strategies to grow your online business using today's best internet sales funnels. Now, here's your host, Steve Larsen. Steve: All right, you guys. Hey, I'm super excited. I'm super pumped for today because we get to talk about something that has always intrigued me. It's actually kind of the way it got started in internet when I first started working for Paul Mitchel and driving internet traffic with one of my buddies. Since then I really haven't done much so I'm excited to welcome on to the podcast an expert in this area, thank you so much, Nick Arapkiles. How are you doing? Nick: I'm great, man. Thanks for having me on. Steve: Hey, thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on. I was just looking through Facebook messages before you and I got on here and I didn't realize I think you had asked if we could push the time back and I'm such a morning person, thanks for getting up this early to do this. Nick: Hey, no problem at all, man. I'm happy to do it. Like you said I'm not much of a morning person, but when someone like you gives me an opportunity like this I'm happy to get on. Steve: It's nice that you did, I appreciate it. For everyone listening, this really is probably the first time, I mean, this is the first time that we'd really spoken like this. The guy that connected us is Ben Wilson obviously. Ben is the guy. He and I we're doing that things, Paul Mitchel and several other companies just think the world of him. He sent me a message and he goes, "Dude, I got this awesome guy. He's the man." I think I still have the message just to put it on the podcast or something. It's pretty funny. He's like, "This sweet guy, man, he's this genius and he said he wants to come." "Hey, sweet." I'm always looking for talent, for people because I get boring for everyone I'm sure. I'm excited to have some mix out. Nick: It's kind of a funny story. I met him at an event here in Colorado and then I actually ran into him at the Rockies, in the baseball game. Then he messaged me about you and here we are. Steve: Dude, that's great. What event was it? Nick: It was actually for a book publishing event ironically ... Steve: He told me he's going to that. Okay, cool. That's fantastic. It's funny this whole internet marketing world, it's actually a lot smaller than people think it is because people get in it, they'll get out of it, they'll get in it but the people that stick around I don't think there's ... Anyways, get around quick. What is exactly that you're doing then? You told me that you're awesome with YouTube which is awesome. Most people forget you can even advertise there I feel like but what is it that you're doing? Nick: Basically, I've been doing this stuff for a lot. Do you want me to just go on to my story a little bit? Steve: Okay, man. Let's hear it. Nick: Okay, cool. I've actually been online for about six years now and two and a half of those first six years were complete and utter struggle. It's usually the case with a lot of people's stories. I don't think I'm too much different... Steve: Anyone who says otherwise I feel like they are just lying or throwing a sales video. Nick: Yeah, I mean, it sucked at the time. Obviously it sucked at the time not having, you always expect when you get started you're thinking you're going to make money in your first day, first week, first month at least but it was tough man, it really was. I forfeited a lot of things going on. I was actually in college at the time... It was the summer before my last year of college so all my friends were going out partying and going to pool parties, different stuff like that. I was just dedicated to this thing. I essentially locked myself in my room that whole summer and I was dedicated to making it work and I didn't even make it work that entire summer and even years after that. It just led me on this path I think once you get into this like you're essentially infected with the entrepreneurial bug as I like to call it. You can't really go back from that. I mean, I kept on trying different things. I even went into the trading Forex and stuff like that but eventually came back into the marketing realm and that's where I am now like you're asking I've done a lot of YouTube stuff. That's the big thing is I really always focus on driving traffic because if you can drive traffic then you have a business. You really can do anything, it depends on what traffic you're using. Most the time I promote different funnels like business opportunities or just affiliate programs... I haven't really dove into much of my own stuff. I just leverage other systems that people put out and that's pretty much what I'm doing but it all stems from driving traffic and then calling people from YouTube into my world. I like to really call it my world more so than my list. I think a lot of people say my list or build a list. That's great, obviously you need to build a list but I think it helps me come from a better mentality than it's I'm building a list of people or a list. It's more so I'm building an audience of people, they are in my world now. Because I think a lot of people secure a list and they just think of numbers and what it really comes down to is that these are people that are interested and they want to connect with you and they want to learn more. You have to treat them as such and I think when you do that you get a lot better results. Steve: Interesting. That's interesting. A lot of people I know will talk about, they'll have you fill out something. Who are you trying to attract? What's their likes? What's their dislikes? What do they hate? Sometimes I feel like that gets pretty artificial after a while. You're just targeting people like yourself. I feel like it's the easiest way to go... Nick: Yeah, to be honest I didn't express this fully but basically what I do right now is I don't actually do too much advertising where I'm paying for the clicks and stuff like that. It's mostly just all organic. I've done a little bit of advertising here and there but the big thing is just putting content up. I know you're asking if I could drop some nuggets for YouTube and stuff like that but the biggest thing is just to continually put out content just like any other type of platform whether that's Facebook, Instagram, even Snapchat now. It's just continually putting out content because the more content you have out there, the more likely people are going to find you... I mean, there are some videos that I have that have seven views but there's also other videos that have 100,000 views. You never really know exactly which videos are going to hit. You might have an idea depending on the keywords and how optimized your videos are but the biggest thing that I stress and every day I learn more and more, I'm always learning is the fact that you never really know exactly until you start putting up content which videos are really going to stick and gain some traction until you upload them. Steve: That's interesting you say that. Back in college also I started really, really diving into this also, same thing. I sucked at it. There's a guy I listen to and he was saying, "You should always be publishing. Try and get a way to be in front of your people. Produce content." Just exactly what you're saying. I started doing that and making all these Periscope videos and I would put the recordings on YouTube. I can't tell you how cool that was. Stuff started happening when I did that. The exact reason you're saying. I had some videos that were terrible but then others were completely surprising to me. People started watching them and pushing them around. What the heck is this? My products started getting sold organically. I was like, "This is kind of cool," I totally agree with that but I have to ask though, you're putting YouTube videos out. Try to put as many up as you can. How do you rank a YouTube video? It's hard to... these words for spiders to go crawl and stuff like that like a blog post. What are some strategies you use to actually try and get them out there? Nick: It almost feels like it's changed throughout the years, I think the algorithms and everything. I'm not that geeky like that but I just noticed some trends here and there. As of late, I've noticed that a bigger channel with more subscribers and just a little bit more authority, maybe it's been on for a little bit of while or a little while, those are the videos that's pushing up towards the top of the search engines. You can pull back links. I know that probably gets a little bit more complex. I don't know if you're familiar with back linking. Steve: 100%, yeah definitely. Nick: Okay, I just didn't know if your audience would or not but that's basically you can go out there and get some other people to put your video in a bunch of different places. The idea behind that is that the search engines see your video all over the place and they are like, "This must be a video that is good. Let's start pushing it up towards the top of the search engine." Especially a couple of years ago that was huge and it definitely got me a lot of results but the thing again that I've noticed lately is that just having a big channel and having some decent subscribers and having people actually watch majority of your video is what's really pushing your videos up. I've had some videos where I just started making videos and they don't get much traction at all but then I have one of my bigger channels and I just put it up and I don't really optimize it at all, I don't really do anything to it and right away it's like one of the first videos on the search engine. Steve: I hear of Traffic Geyser. Nick: Yeah the name sounds familiar. Steve: These sites where you just submit your video and they'll just blast it across the internet so that you could get more views. I mean, totally spam-my stuff, you know what I mean? It's the dream for every entrepreneur or internet guys to just put your stuff everywhere. What strategies do you use for finding people to put your videos up? You know what I mean? Did you have to find related channels to yourself? Nick: Not necessarily. I use a website called Fiverr a lot of the times or at least I used to. I haven't been using it as much lately but it's a really cool website. You're obviously familiar with it but I'll explain it for your audience. Basically, it's just a website. It's called fiverr.com, F-I-V-E-R-R dot com and basically it's a site that has a bunch of people doing a bunch of different gigs. They'll literally do anything for you for $5. I think there's a processing fee now for like 50 cents. Essentially people will do anything for you on the internet. I should be more specific with that. Steve: It's funny though because I've had people like, "Rap my name." I've had people, "Beat box stuff," they'll do anything for five bucks. Nick: Exactly, there's a lot of different stuff that you can do. Basically I just go on there and look for back links or maybe social signals and it's not to complicated. I mean, you just have to find someone with good rating, good track record and just test them out and that's the whole thing that I always tell people too is that you just have to test things out. You'll never really know what's working, what's not working until you go out there and actually apply it yourself... I think a lot of people are always asking me for the secret, asking me for different things that are just going to make it click and they're going to make hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's really never the case. You know this just as well as anybody is that you actually have to go out there and do the work, see what's working, see what's not working and then throw out the stuff that's not working and then just ramp up the stuff that is working... Steve: This is one of the reasons why I laugh so much when you brought up Fiverr because it started out as a great class. I'm sorry if anyone's listening that was in that class. It was like an SEO class in college and it started out great. We're learning all these cool strategies for SEO and things like that. Then it just got like the strategies were really old. I've been doing it long enough by that point that I just knew that what I was earning wasn't significant or anything. He's like, "Hey, what you're all going to go do is you got to go create a YouTube video and think about a topic a lot and the competition in the class to see whose video can get the most views." I was like, "I could totally game that." We went and we made this, you know that, "Do you even lift, bro?" Those videos that are out there right now, have you seen it though? Nick: I'm not sure. Steve: "Bro, do you even lift?" Nick: Okay, yeah. Steve: The next Star Wars is coming out and we said, "Do you even Jedi, bro?" We made all these funny videos of people. It was pretty cool but I totally went to Fiverr and I paid this dude $5 to send like 10,000 bot clicks. For no views at all to just this massive spike and we went and we gave the ending presentation stuff like that like we have over 10,000 clicks on this thing and everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing." It's in the last few weeks and what's funny is that we ended up getting contacted right before the class ended by this ad agency. They were like, "Hey, we want to use your video to promote Star Wars stuff on." I was like, "Okay." None of them knew that this were like ... I'm sure that 50 of them were real clicks out of the ... Maybe. What's funny though is that obviously YouTube after a while can start to see if that's crap. The views on the bottom went from 0 to 10,000 to 12 and it stayed there. We're looking at the analytics for a while and then just totally drop. They took away all of them all the way back down to 3 views or something like that after the class was ended. Anyways, the only reason I bring that up is because A, it was a total failure and I knew what happened. I knew enough about that world that time but it was I mean, how do you go through Fiverr and figure out who's going to be sending you real clicks and not. You know what I mean or who's going to be pushing your video around the right way or not? Because most of it ... I like Fiverr for testing a lot of the lower level stuff but it sounds like you've got a cool way to do it that isn't that way. Nick: Yeah, that's actually a good point... I'm glad you brought that up because that's very important that you find good gigs because if you are sending a bunch of fake traffic to your YouTube videos it can get your video shut down and even your account shut down because YouTube will recognize that and they see that you're just throwing all these views on there and they are all fake. They don't like that. I've had the experience of getting a lot of my stuff shut down because of that in the early stages. Anyone listening, make sure that you're not sending crap gigs over to your videos because YouTube will shut that down real quick. In terms of finding good stuff, basically I just make sure that the vendor has a good track record. There's one specific guy that he's probably one of the bigger gigs. He's got so many different gigs on there. I'll just let you know his name is Crorkservice. Steve: Crorkservice, you know, I might actually seen him before. Nick: I'm sure you have. Honestly he's probably one of the best out there and he's got the best ratings. He's like the top of the top sellers... I mean, it's no hidden secret. You just have to go through his gigs and figure out what exactly it is that you want. If you are going to purchase views I really haven't done that in a long time. I know there are some people that do it and they do actually have success because again like I was saying before, if you can get high retention views where people are watching the majority of your video, that actually can really, really help you with ranking your video on YouTube in specifics. Just make sure that is a high retention view and again it has a good track record because that can definitely help with rankings on YouTube. Steve: Interesting, okay. What are you doing? I heard some people talk about we’ll give some formula or outline for what to make, what to put in the video to make sure that they’ll push pass minute seven or whatever it is. Do you have anything that you would recommend there? Nick: Yeah, for sure. There’s a couple of things. The first thing that you definitely need to know, basically how I get all my traffic for the most part is it’s all based on keywords. People come into the search engines and this is just like general in terms of search traffic. Basically people will come in, they’ll be searching for something, I mean you and I have done this just as much as anybody else is that they have a concern, they have an issue, they need help with something. They come into the search engines and they start typing it out whether that is how to lose weight, how to grow tomatoes. It doesn’t really matter, it just pertains to whatever your business is but they’ll start searching things in and then they’ll find your videos if you start uploading videos, you do it on a good channel, you start optimizing it. Your videos are going to start rising towards the top of the search engines. What you need to do when you’re making your videos is that you need to let your viewers know that they are at the right place. Let’s say for example that you did make a video about how to grow heirloom tomatoes for example. What you need to say in the beginning of the video, you need to let your viewer know that they’re in the right place at the right time. You say, “Hey, you probably landed on this video because you are looking, you started searching out how to grow heirloom tomatoes,” right then and there they know that they are at the right place. That's what starts it out and then if you can get technical and say, you need to say this, you need to say this, but I think it ultimately comes down to is that you need to let them know that they’re in the right place and then give them value. I know it sounds stupidly simple but I think there’s many people out there that just like they’re trying to heighten all this traffic, all this stuff through your website. People are smart, you can’t bullshit people... When you’re genuine, when you give value and you’re just a real down to earth person then that’s when people recognize that. People will connect with you just on that fact based alone, they might be coming searching for information they want to learn how to grow tomatoes or lose weight or whatever it is. A lot of times people just want to connect with somebody and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had that happen where people just, they’ll hit me up on Facebook and they’re like, “Yeah, I mean, your video is great and all that but you just seem like you’re a down to earth person, you seem like a good dude and that’s why I came out and connected with you.” Steve: Interesting... I have had it happen before also and I never realized that that was probably it. I’m trying to be authentic on camera, you know what I mean? I’m just being myself and I have people come back and say, “Hey, you’re the man. I have this feeling when I was talking to you I should reach out to you,” and I was like, “What kind of feeling? All right, thanks.” Interesting. Yeah, that’s cool you bring that up... There really is as simple as that just answer the question, let them know that they’re there and then connect with them. There’s a guy I was listening to and he was saying something like, “The first 20 seconds you have to do something crazy to keep their attention. The next 60 seconds then you got to teach a little nugget then the final two minutes do something that’s also a little crazy to make sure they come back next time.” I was like, “Man, that’s a lot. All right,” but that’s so much more simpler route to do that. What kind of timeline do you usually look at when you’re trying to rank a video? You know what I mean, like how long it usually take? Nick: Again, it’s kind of goes along the same thing I was talking about just before and there’ll be a lot of people that say, “You got to make two to four minutes.” I certainly agree to that to an extent because like I was saying before it’ll help you start ranking your videos a little bit more if people are watching more of your video. If you have a shorter video it’s more likely that people are just going to watch more of it. If you have an 11 minute video then obviously less people are just going to watch it just because everyone has shorter attention spans. It does depend on the video that you’re doing because specific keywords especially like I do a lot of reviews. I’ll be honest that’s where a lot of my traffic comes from, a lot of my buyer traffic. That's just kind of a nugget right there. If you can start doing some reviews like that’s going to be some of your best traffic out there. I’ve got review videos that are like 10, 11, 12 minutes long and people watch the majority of it because buyers, think about this, buyers will watch, they will watch everything and they’ll read everything because they're thinking about it from your perspective. If you’re going out there and let's just say for example you want to buy a new MacBook or yeah, let’s just go with that example. Are you going to go to the website and just like look at a couple of pictures and then buy? No, you’re probably going to be going, you’re going to watch the hour long keynote presentation, you’re going to watch the ten minute video that shows all the details and all the benefits and features on the MacBook. You’re going to be talking to people, you might even reach out to a support. Buyers they will do their research. To just tell you, “You have to have it four minutes long,” or, “You have to have it ten minutes long,” I can’t really tell you that exactly because if you just target keywords that are buyer keywords, people are going to be searching that stuff until they make that buyer decision. Does that all makes sense? Steve: Yeah, it does. That’s a great insight. It’s not like a two to four minutes, there's not a hard fast rule, it's just hey whatever is … Make sure first that you’re actually delivering value and answering the question and coming back to them. Nick: Yeah, and if you’re asking for a short answer, I would say keep it shorter if you can but if you need more time to explain everything that you need I think there’s nothing wrong with that. Steve: What kind of buyer keywords? I mean is there’s a trend in good buying keywords, you know what I mean that you’re saying? Like across mostly internet or things that will pull your videos apart because those keywords are more valuable or you know what I mean? Nick: I’ll just be honest, review videos are probably the best videos that you can possibly make. Steve: Really? Nick: Yeah, because the reason people are coming and looking for reviews is because they saw a video or they saw a product and they’re a buyer. They’re looking for more information on that, they want to get everything they can possibly know about that. Once they figured out, once they see your video, once something clicks and they make sure it’s the right product for them then they’re ready to buy right there. Does that makes sense? Steve: Interesting. Yeah, 100%. I was just thinking too I’ve got like, I don’t know, 150 videos on YouTube but 90 of them are unlisted or whatever so that I can put them inside of websites and things like that. Do you have a preference at all? Have you found that there’s any kind of, I don’t know. I don’t even know, favoritism given to people who stay on the YouTube website versus watching YouTube video embedded on a page? Nick: I haven’t really done too much embedding on different pages so I can’t really speak for that. One other thing I was going to touch is the fact that you can actually look at your analytics too and you can see which videos people are watching longer. You can see the average duration on how long your viewers are staying on your video... Steve: Yeah, I love the stat section in the back of YouTube, it’s nuts. Most people don't look at that by a part but it’s pretty fascinating. Nick: Yeah, it’s great stuff and I actually just like within the last few months I’ve really started looking at that stuff a lot more and it’s really helped me. We just go back to the whole thing about testing seeing what works and then start doing more of what works. That what I was doing is I was really taking a look at the analytics, see what the videos that people are staying on for a long time and then just making more of those videos. Because there’s some videos where people are staying on for less than a minute through an average of 10,000 views. I’m like, “Okay, that obviously didn’t work so let’s throw that away. It was a good test, that was some good feedback, I won’t do that anymore so let’s move on and let’s find something better.” Steve: I just wanted to touch on something because this really matters a lot in kind of my world. I build funnels all day long, just tons of sales funnels and that’s kind of what I was looking through on your site mentorwithnick.com which is super cool, everyone should go there, mentorwithnick.com. You’ve got a quiz there and we’re a huge a fan of quizzes, it kind of pre-frame people. You got a welcome video from you and automated email that I got and then a link over to $1 offer. Kind of a cool biz opportunity there or business product I should say. Usually what we do when I build these types of funnels. You just kind of took me through in that mentorwithnick.com is we’ll always take those videos and enlist them and put them inside a funnel. I mean, I never let people just sit inside of YouTube format. I think it’s interesting that you just said … I mean it sounds like almost all of your review videos they’re all on YouTube anyway which makes sense. That’s what people are searching. That’s fascinating though. I guess I’m just recapping that. That’s cool though. Do you ever embed it all I guess, I mean you obviously did on that welcome video with Mentor With Nick. Nick: Yeah, that is one place that I do embed, I kind of almost forgot about that but those are like the only places. Mostly just like welcome videos or I like to call as bridge pages, like you said I do promote different things, different opportunities and stuff like that. What a lot of people will do is they’ll just send traffic directly to an offer and while that can work for sure like I’m not saying it can. Steve: It’s rough though. Nick: Yeah, pre-frame that a little bit and kind of just introduce them, kind of welcome them into your world. That’s a big thing it’s just like saying, “Hey, I’m here for you,” like, “I got your back,” like, “Don’t worry,” like, “We got this taken care of and you know I’m going to introduce you to this thing and you can certainly take us up on that but if not, you know, just connect with us.” So many people just want to connect with somebody, that’s what my whole video is about and after they opt in it’s just kind of saying, “Hey, I’m here,” like, “If you need anything from me you’ll be receiving some emails from me and you know I’m here to help you out.” I think that’s just a lot better way to do things instead of just like hard driving traffic to offers... My honest opinion that’s going to drop convergence but it’s also going to drop your audience where they just think that you’re just trying to sell them all the time. Steve: Yeah, 100% I agree with that and I was impressed with that video that you put out there, I thought that was really good. I always draw out funnels like crazy and in my world we call it funnel hacking. I was going through your funnel and drawing all that out, the emails that came, things like that and it’s not like you need that welcome video, the one from you. Technically you don’t but I thought it was interesting and cool that you put it in there because I watched the whole thing and it made sense to me is like, “Hey, there’s a lot of trust and there was a lot of ...” What’s the word? I can’t think the word. After watching the video I was like, “Hey, this guy is real. That was cool. What a good video,” and it set me up because I have to tell you when the next video started I was like, “Eh.” I don’t know but because I watched you, I was like there was a lot more trust, like a lot more stock in that video. Anyways, great example right there, I thought that was fantastic... Nick: Thank you. I appreciate that. Steve: Yeah, everyone go checkout mentorwithnick.com, that’s an interesting process for a bridge page right there. That’s really good. Nick: Thank you. Steve: Do you send people to quizzes a lot also? Nick: I use that capture page right now because it seems to be converting the best. I’ve noticed that in the past like I even got opt in pages like that up to like 50% opt in rate for all my traffic which is really good. Right now I’m sitting at around like 39%. I mean that’s for the best that I’ve done. I’ve tested with a lot of different stuff and everything else have been kind of sitting around like 32 to 33 maybe like a little bit higher than that. I just use that because it just kind of like gets them invested... They have the two step opt in and you are obviously very familiar with all this stuff and that works really well where you have to click on something that makes it a little bit more congruent. They’ve already invested a little something to make sure they put their email address in but the survey just kind of adds a little bit more like they’re taking a quiz and then they’re like, “Okay.” Now, they need to put their email address in and they’re already a little bit more invested so they’re more likely to continue with that action, that whole congruency. Steve: 100% plus then you can follow up with them, you got their email address and you can re-market to them and ask them if they got the trial. Yeah, great for you, great for them. Yeah, I completely agree with that too. I had this quiz who’s probably about 50% also, same thing. It’s just quizzes are great things for people. It was only like four questions but it set them into my … It was the same thing that you did which is what I was laughing at, “Where did you hear about us from?” and it was like, “Facebook, Oprah, Obama mentioned me,” and then other. I’ve never been on those things before but because they heard those names first and then your name last or even other, it’s a lot more stock also. Just increases your authority like crazy, not that you want to be deceptive but it does give you more authority. The next question was like, “What age range are you in?” and these are questions that sometimes don’t even matter or you can ask questions that just kind of poke them in the eye a little bit. “How much do you make on your side business every week?” “Zero. A hundred bucks,” and then just, “I got to choose the lowest one.” For a weight loss product, “How many products have you tried?” but at the time your solution comes up they’re like, “Man, he’s right. I fail every time at this. I do need to buy this product.” That’s interesting though. Cool. Hey man, I don’t want to just keep taking your time. I appreciate you getting up early to do this with me. Where can people learn more about you and join your world like you were saying? Nick: You can add me on Facebook, that’s a good place. I am kind of maxing that out now. Lately I’ve been going pretty hard with getting people add me and everything like that. My friend list is kind of maxing out right now so I did also start up a new Instagram account, a new Snapchat account which my usernames are Mentor With Nick, just kind of goes along with my website. You can also go to my website like you mentioned before which is mentorwithnick.com. Steve: Mentor With Nick Instagram and Snapchat, mentorwithnick.com also and then also on Facebook. Hey Nick, I appreciate it man. Thank you so much for taking the time again and for dropping all the nuggets you did. Nick: Yeah, for sure man. It was fun. I always love getting on with like-minded people and just chat marketing something I’m very passionate about. Steve: Yeah, I appreciate it. Everyone else usually who talks about it, sometimes they feel alone in this world. Anyways, it’s cool to meet you man and I do appreciate it. Nick: No problem, man. Happy to be on. Steve: All right, talk to you later. Announcer: Thanks for listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Have a question you want answered on the show? Get your free t-shirt when your question gets answered on the live Hey Steve Show. Visit salesfunnelbroker.com now to submit your question.
Green Meadows Beef is an unique family business providing grass feed beef direct to the consumer. This is the story how the Carey family have built their business of providing raw materials to the end user and the way they have used social media to take it to market Today’s guest is Nick Carey, Director and General Manager of Green Meadows Beef based in Taranaki. Green Meadows Beef is a unique family business who have built their business primarily using online and social media platforms. The business has experienced tremendous growth over the last five years. Craig and Nick talk about what started as an offbeat idea that has become big business for his family. In 2012, his family decided they wanted to add value to their products. This propelled them to launch a paddock to plate system. This involved shipping products from their farm through their own processing and distribution channels. Their direct-to-market through online sales has formed a big growth part of their business. Nick’s father, suggested for them to try and market their beef product directly to the consumer. They sat together as a family and formed a new way to get their products to the market, and soon, they recognized the opportunity of selling online. This propelled them to launch a paddock to plate system. This involved shipping products from their farm through their own processing and distribution channels. Their direct-to-market through online sales has formed a big growth part of their business. Nick started his career as a commercial lawyer in Wellington and New Plymouth His role in this new family business was in the development, branding, and logistics. Soon enough this was taking most of his time and he eventually decided he needed to quit his job as a lawyer. That was a leap of faith for Nick, who has had to adjust to being an entrepreneur. There were four key problems Green Meadows Beef was solving for the consumer. These were (1) Time saving (2) Ease of purchase (3) Quality assurance, (4) Provenance. Nick and Craig also talk about how wildly successful My Food Bag has become. It is a website that allows it’s customers to order a food bag for a varied number of people. It is also customized for them in terms of the number of people and their diet. My Food Bag has revolutionized the industry. Countdown eventually came up with a similar concept of online selling. There was a big shift in the market of people being more open to purchasing food products online. That assured Green Meadows Beef of its market. In terms of marketing research, they were lucky that Green Meadows Beef was nimble enough to adapt their offering as well. This included having to tweak their operations on the way. They started out selling bulk-frozen packs and delivering them through chilled or frozen trucks. However, it has now evolved to a point where they can customize their own products and deliver them the next day, chilled, through a courier. Nick’s journey has not been without challenges. One day, his company’s freight company informed him that they were no longer going to deliver Nick’s frozen meat packs. As a result, he was forced to change his business model, which led to better results because they are now selling fresh produce instead of frozen produce. Another challenge Nick has had to face was the price of raw materials. Over the last three to four years, the price of raw materials has almost doubled. At the same time. One of the things that has raised the price of the raw product is the price that it can otherwise be sold elsewhere. Export of demand has been high. They now run their farm as a separate business from their meat processing. Each company has different governance, advisers, and processes. Ensuring that the two businesses were independent of each other will help with succession planning and will force each one to be profitable on its own. . However, with the easing off of demand in the United States, the farm gate prices have been affected. Nick learned to focus on the role of governance and the value of the right independent advice. Another crucial area that Nick has focused on is being able to get accurate and timely business information, dealing with changes in technology and how scalable that is, and finally, achieving a profitable core business before evolving into other paths. Another thing that Nick has focused on is learning how to work with his people. Getting the right staff onboard has been a good learning experience for him. He makes sure his employees have clearly defined roles, responsibilities, and reporting lines so that he could focus on working on the business and growing it. Nick has been able to retain his staff for 4 years now. He hardly needed to do cold hires because he utilized the benefits of his networks. As for online selling, Nick uses mostly social media such as Facebook and Twitter to connect with people and to build an audience. They do mostly paid advertising now. He initially did everything in-house but has started outsourcing it already using a marketing consultant who works remotely for them. In terms of content, Nick suggests that you keep it personal, relevant, and fun to keep his customers engaged. With competition sprouting up more, there is a need to ensure that you get heard. Nick’s friend once said that content is king but engagement is queen and she rules the house. You need to be able to engage your followers. Currently, they are on Pinterest and Instagram but it has been a challenge to maintain everything. They use third party tools to help with the marketing side. They also use cloud based systems that help cut costs and get things done. What Nick enjoys about being in business is building something from the ground up, seeing the evolution of that business, and having a chance to enjoy its success. As a lawyer, Nick had a structured and disciplined career. At the moment, he says he has very little structure in his life now. Working with creative types, for example, causes him to work longer hours and deadlines extended. He deals with it by communicating well with his people. He says that if you spend a good portion of your day through communicating, it makes the day go so much better. This goes back to having structures in place so the rest of the team can function harmoniously while you’re communication with them. Nick’s challenge working with his family is ensuring that there is regular communication in terms of what’s happening in the business as well as asking for feedback. He suggests that there has to be a clear distinction of business and family time. It is important that everyone gets their chance to have a say but at the end of it, they are able to sit down and have dinner together. In terms of having external professionals and mentors for his business, Nick says that one of the critical things is finding the right independent advice. His solution has been to persevere until you find exactly what you need at a particular time. As your business continues to change, so does the levels of advise. Nick has found that having an independent director has helped him fill the skills gap. Engaging the services of experts can be beneficial to his business as well. Nick does not dwell on the past. His company has a year end review where they identify what worked and what didn’t so that in the future, they can learn from these experiences. Nick says that in hindsight, he would have focused on margin analysis in his business and having a better handle on his cash flow and budget. This has become one of their strengths and has allowed them to diversify the business for a more consistent cash inflow. Being content in terms of business and the industry that you’re in is a mistake that business owners make. As an example, the evolution of online selling has had an effect on traditional purchasing. Nick suggests that you need to stay on top of things and not rest on your laurels because you don’t know what’s around the corner. Strengthen your core business and ensure that it is profitable and sustainable before you venture out into other business opportunities. At the moment, there is a need to develop relationships with consumers because people want to know where there food comes from, how it’s produced, and what’s going on. Visit www.GreenMeadowsBeef.co.nz for more information. TRANSCRIPT NICK CAREY Craig: Hi guys! Craig here from The Project Guys. Today in our podcast, really happy to introduce Nick Carey. Nick is a Director and General Manager of Green Meadows Beef based here in Taranaki. Green Meadows Beef is a unique family business who built the business primarily using online and social media platforms. They specialise in suppling New Zealand consumers’ grass fed premium beef, where you online, and delivered to your door in twenty four hours. And their business has experienced tremendous growth over the last five years. What started as an offbeat idea and working from home office is now having their own dedicated butchery and retail premises and offices. So, welcome Nick. Nick: Thanks Craig. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell a little bit about our story. Craig: No drama at all! . Tell us a little bit about your background and why you decided to go into business. Nick: Well, my background was as a commercial lawyer for a few years both in Wellington and New Plymouth. We as a family, I guess, back in 2012, decided that we wanted to add value to the products we were producing which was mainly meat or beef and as a way to, I guess, cement the family farm and those plans through a formal succession plan, we decided to launch an integrated pallet to plate business which is shipping products from our farm through our own channels and processing channels, as Craig mentioned, direct consumers New Zealand wide through the different channels we utilise it at supermarkets, restaurants, and caterers and of course, direct-to-market through online sales, which is our biggest growth part of the business. Craig: So, you’ve mentioned that you were a lawyer and then from a lawyer to an entrepreneur, it’s not a traditional path, was it your idea to do businesses with family? How did it all sort of evolve? Nick: Yeah. Evolve is probably the right thing to say. It was my father’s idea to try and market the products. Obviously, we soon recognised online was a much easier path than let’s say the traditional paths of standing at farmer’s markets or carport sales or whatever it may be where other people are maybe trying to sell similar products. So it’s at that time, all of us, I’ve got two siblings. We all became involved to help form a plan to get the products to market and I helped here on the side with development and branding and things and arranging all of that and then once we launched the business, it became pretty evident that I wouldn’t be able to continue in my day job and helping out with the business. So it was about, I guess, 3 months in that I gave up… Craig: Oh, that quick! Yeah. Yeah. Nick: Yeah. Yeah.…full-time paid employment to jump into the business. Craig: To be poor for a couple of years. Nick: Yes! Yes! Craig: [laughs] Nick: Forever. Craig: Forever. [laughs] Yes! Yes! So, when you started, obviously, it was just quite a bit different and there’s a new concept. Get away from the farmer’s markets or selling to a wholesaler, direct….did you guys do any market research and that actually work out where you had a legitimate market and business… Nick: Uhm… Craig: And what are the problems you’re solving which are and I suppose were time saving and ease for the purchaser, wasn’t it? Nick: That and also quality and provenance. So those are I guess the 4 key messages or key problems we’re solving for the consumer. Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Nick: In New Zealand, at that time, there was a limited range of producers doing what we were doing. Certainly that landscape has changed now and more and more are coming on board to be…whether it’s in meat or other ___ farm products or whatever. The launch of things like MyFoodBag and you know and the whole… Craig: Which is wildly successful. Nick: Exactly. Craig: Yeah. Nick: And a great example of success in this market. Craig: Yeah. Nick: So I guess in…when the business was in its infancy, there was only a couple of competitors in New Zealand. I don’t even think Countdown had really launched their… Craig: Right. Nick: Online sales at that time so obviously, we’ve noticed a big shift in the market and people being far more open to purchasing food products online. So, with our research, it was really based on looking at producers in Australia, the United Kingdom, and the United States, seeing what they were doing, what offerings they had. Craig: Yeah. Nick: And obviously, because we…we were selling online, just online only at the start, it did allow us some chance to scale as time went on so there was no pressure of having products ready to go with no markets. Craig: Yeah. Nick: So I guess, we…we are currently on to building website number three. Craig: Right. Nick: So there has been multiple chances to refine the offering based on our own learnings… Craig: Yeah. Nick: Rather than…than doing too much… Craig: Yeah. Nick: market research at the beginning, I guess, which potentially a pitfall… Craig: Yeah. But… Nick: that were fallen into but we’ve been lucky that we’ve been nimble enough to be able to adapt that offering to… Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah… Nick: to see that…what does that mean? Craig: Yeah. Oh, it’s a case sometimes of getting that ___ to market and then work out having to… and having to tweak everything on the way, isn’t it… Nick: Exactly. We’ve started out in our industry selling bulk frozen packs and delivering it via the chilled or frozen trucks… Craig: Yes. Nick: all over the country where it could take anything from a week to two weeks. Craig: Right. Nick: To be delivered to the model that we have now and it’s evolving as you can customise and pick and choose your own products… Craig: Yeah… Nick: …and it’s delivered the next day, chilled via courier, so… Craig: Yeah. Nick: You know, there’s different challenges that come at you and one of that for example was the freight company telling us, “No, we’re no longer gonna deliver your frozen meat packs.” So… Craig: Oh, is that right? Nick: So your business if often forced to change… Craig: Yes. Nick: …which can obviously lead to better results… Craig: Yeah. Nick: …because the consumer appreciates… Craig: Yeah… Nick: fresh produce versus… Craig: Yeah… Nick: frozen produce. Craig: So there. So tell us a bit more about the challenges and the learnings you had in those early years and maybe also the challenges you’re facing now and how that evolved? Nick: Definitely. I guess the critical challenge for us been the price of our raw materials. Craig: Alright. Nick: Just to put them in a little bit of context and background, we run the farm as a totally separate business from the meat processing… Craig: Yeah. Nick: Different governance, different advisers, everything and we thought that was a critical distinction from a… Craig: Uhm… Nick: …a governance point of view particularly in the family situation so that we had two separate business which were hopefully, hopefully independent of each other, both supporting… Craig: Uhm… Nick: …themselves. So… Craig: Also that. I guess it also helps with succession planning too. Exit strategy is one [incomprehensible]… Nick: Exactly. And obviously that’s what we’re focusing… Craig: Uhm… Nick: The meat processing business now is taking on a life of its own with contract manufacturing… Craig: Yeah… Nick: …and things like that so…obviously anytime, I mentioned it at the start that the farm is very much part of the succession plan but if there were something that caused the farm to go, well, we’ve got another business… Craig: Yeah… Nick: And vice versa, we could always onsell the meat processing side of things. Craig: Uhm…uhm…uhm… Nick: …and keep the farm… Craig: That’s right. Nick: But so…part of it is that the farm must obviously make a profit… Craig: Yes… Nick: So we have to purchase the animals that we’re using through the Green Meadows Business from the farm at the prevailing market rate… Craig: Yes… Nick: Over the last three to four years, that price of raw materials has almost doubled… Craig: Oh sh…. Nick: Without a corresponding rise in meat prices at the consumer end… Craig: Yeah… Nick: There’s still a certain barrier at the consumer end as to what a sausage or whatever may cost so I guess that’s been the critical challenge that we’ve face and we’ve had to really adapt and change our product offering. So… Craig: So what’s driven the price of the raw product up? Is it the price on the farm to produce that product? Nick: No, it’s the price that it can otherwise be sold elsewhere... Craig: Oh, okay. Nick: So, export demand, primarily out of the U_S where ground beef, easier ground beef is exported… Craig: Okay… Nick: …to the U_S and it’s been in quite high demand in particularly out of China as well… Craig: Right. Nick: So, depending on what’s happening in those markets, I’m assuming we’re seeing an easing off in the United States at the moment on demand which, of course, is then having a… Craig: Yeah… Nick: …a correlation back to farm gate prices here. Craig: Cool… Nick: So I guess with that challenge, we learned quite a lot and kind of like it’s focused a lot on what’s happened in the business so there are a couple of points off the top of my head… Craig: Yes…Yeah… Nick: I guess the role of governance and the value of the right independent advice has been a critical things that we’ve taken from it, I guess the information we’re pulling out of the business in terms or accurate and timely… Craig: Yup… Nick: …business information, technology and how scalable that is, what machines can really make our day better… Craig: Right. Nick: Versus culling out some of those manual processes, cause obviously, bearing in mind making food can sometimes be a relatively manual process… Craig: Yup! Yeah… Nick: And then it all comes back to achieving a profitable core business before evolving into other paths. So, we’ve really focused over the last year or two on what is our core business, how to make it profitable before launching into some other opportunities as well. Craig: So how do you take yourself out of the business to work on the business around those things you just… Nick: Yeah, well, as the businesses continue to grow, we’ve been able to put staff into roles that I was otherwise doing, so for example, we’ve just taken on an operations manager who is handling most of the day-to-day production and supply side of the business whereas I’m just handling the demand side and obviously everything else. So the finances and working on the business so, I guess that’s been a good learning is getting the right staff on board, making sure that they have clearly defined roles and responsibilities and reporting lines so that that then frees you up to do as you say, “working on the business,” and growing it. So we have that clearly…clear definition of okay, operations manager was gonna focus on the supply side and production, I was gonna handle the demand, so that’s where my focus is now…is on the demand side and when you’ve got the right people and the right positions, everything is fine and it works well. Craig: So, you’ve gotta run on a fierce podcast business and about staffing. How’d you go and find the right staffing? How’d you know? Do you know? [laughs] Nick: I guess, that’s a good question, “Do you know?” Craig: Cause that’s critical, isn’t it? Nick: It is and we are fortunate that in nearly 4 years, we’ve retained all our staff which I guess, obviously speaks of our environment also. The direction that we’re pushing the company. It…it’s…I guess it comes down to clear jobs…just clear job descriptions when you’re going so you know exactly who you’re looking for so when you find them, you know, they tick all the boxes and utilising the benefit of networks because all of our staff have been knowing to…. Craig: Someone…someone… Nick: Yeah. Craig: Someone who knows somebody…Yeah… Nick: Exactly, so now I’m doing that thing with cold hires but I can see that the next thing we’re already looking for our next staff member, which is scary… Craig: Yeah… Nick: But I can see that that will be a cold…a cold hire so I guess that will come down to getting clear…clear pre-employment checks and questions and also making sure they’re the right fit for the… Craig: thing… Nick: Exactly. Craig: Cool. Awesome. So, you have used a lot of online tools and platforms that you’ve touched on before to build the business to where it is. Tell us about the strategy and has that changed over the years and if so, how or….yeah… Nick: Yeah…It’s a different __part obviously with online selling. You wanna connect with customers in real time and I guess social media in particular is great for that. We’ve primarily used Facebook and Twitter for the connecting with people and building an audience at the beginning. I guess how that’s changed is we’ve now moved from just connecting with customers and building that brand and that relationship through the more paid advertising now. So we do a lot of online marketing in terms of ECO and pre marketing and also direct marketing through the likes of Facebook. So, I guess it’s building a network and a platform, which would then turn into an opportunity to market, so… Craig: Did you do all that in-house, or do you outsource it? Nick: We did start all that in-house but now I’ve outsourced it. We have a marketing consultant who works remotely for us, who handles all that ECO and ECM marketing. Craig: And what about all your Facebook engagement? Cause I know when you first start your business, you’re massive on engaging with your audience, you do a lot of that at the start. Is that still done in-house? Or… Nick: It’s still done in-house and obviously that’s been one of the challenges I found is that I handle that role as the businesses grow, keep it…personal, and keep it relevant and keep it fun which is how we engage with our customers and perhaps that’s something I could be doing better. Craig: [incomprehensible] Nick: I think as we came and set the so high with using that as a focus, it’s kind of…you can easily fall by the way, so… Craig: That’s so much of a big challenge, isn’t it because that’s how you built the brand and showing you some of the loyalty stats. Nick: And I’m definitely seeing that with other influences that I follow that they came out with a good solid two years of social media engagement and then now it’s sort of dropped back… Craig: Yes… Nick: And I don’t know whether that’s just the maturing of the market and there are a lot of these platforms now and monetising, they’re successors, so it now makes it difficult to instigate…seen whereas in the beginning it was relatively easy but I think you raise a good point about engagement because a lot of the focus on social media a few years ago was all about content and posting the right sort of content but now, I know a person who writes and used to podcast a lot of Facebook. She said that content is king but engagement is queen and she rules the house. Craig: Yes… Nick: And it’s sort of something that’s always always stuck with me because you can have great content but if you’re not getting anything back from the people you’re publishing it to, what’s the point? Craig: Yeah, you could have 100,000 followers but if you’re not engaging them, what’s the point? Nick: Yes. So I think, you know, that’s a key thing to keep it at the back of your mind because it’s not a question of numbers because it’s like you said, it’s how they’re engaging. Craig: You said when you sell your products you use Facebook and Twitter, yet have you tried the other platforms at all? Nick: We do have a little bit on Pinterest, obviously we’re in a food business and Instagram, but it’s again, it’s the challenge of maintaining everything. We do use a lot of third party tools to push the marketing side of things which we find works well and we obviously into the day to day side of things prefer to use online tools for managing the business, whether it be accounting software, our website is all run on a third party CMS which is obviously cloud based and what else do we use in the cloud? Design tools and everything like that that’s all accessible now which really help (a) cut costs and (b) get things done. Craig: So what do you enjoy most about being in business? What strokes your ties? Nick: Tough question, but I guess it’s with building something from the ground up and seeing the evolution it’s having the chancing to leap at success. There are days obviously that I don’t enjoy leading. Craig: You wish you were a follower there mate? [laughs] Nick: Yeah. Exactly. When you bring in HR and customer issues and things like that. Obviously, you want to do a good job, whether it be your staff or your customers but I guess that’s the critical thing is having that chance and opportunity which I do feel fortunate for that you know, we’re in a position that I was able to leave my fulltime employment to follow something which I could see working and it…with just a few challenges and refinements. We’re now well on a path to making a success. Craig: Yeah. Nick: So that’s pretty special and something that I hold dear and try not to abuse really but it is a bit of a privilege to do this so if I can keep looking at it like that, then it’ll keep me focused and also keep me grounded. Craig: Grounded, which is what New Zealand ___ is all about. Cool, you hear that? Nick: Yeah, I guess we at the start to kinda pushed the business and I do believe in it is we did a lot of PR work which is obviously the opposite to the grounded because you’re having to put yourself out there and tell your story and that can be difficult at times especially when you get…things like TV involved, so yeah, I think that’s a good balance to have. Craig: So, ____ what have you learned from you know, five or six years ago, when you left the safe little confines of a lawyer’s office… Nick: To me, just by one and a half years…whatever it was… Craig: You were very structured and disciplined to doing this. What have you learned as a leader? Here, professionally and personally? Nick: Yeah, I guess a couple of things, you do mean structure, I have very little structure in my life now. Craig: [laughs] Nick: Just by trying to plan things, you know, obviously things never really go to plan. So that’s been difficult in terms of deadlines and things like that as I’m understanding how things work in the real world versus a lawyer’s world where 5 o’clock Friday was your excellent deadline and you wouldn’t dare go past 5 o’clock Friday whereas when you start involving perhaps creative types into the mix and deadlines can often extend. Craig: Yes. Nick: So that’s been one challenge for me personally and also from a managing or leadership type of thing. Communication and understanding the importance of communication internally and externally and you can never really over communicate particularly with staff and things of concerns. Craig: Yeah. Nick: I guess that’s another that I’ve really learned is you spend a good portion of your day through communicating and it makes the day go so much better. Craig: Yes. Nick: But then it comes back to what I mentioned earlier about having the structures in place so that the rest of the team can function harmoniously while you’re communicating with them…the team… Craig: Yeah. And what about the family dynamic, isn’t that communications is key? Sometimes, the family businesses, they can either go really well which is good or goes real bad because one of the first rules of business is don’t ever do business with family members, isn’t it? Nick: It is. Craig: Yes, back to the question. Sorry about the rain everybody! So I asked Nick about the dynamic of working with some family members. One of the first rules of business is don’t go into business with family. So I guess it has worked here. From a leadership point of view, the communications point of view, have you managed that? Nick: Yeah, it has been both a benefit and a challenge to go into business with family. On a daily basis, I work with both of my peer, so on a day to day to basis, I mean, both of my brothers work externally from the business so two problems obviously, or challenges working with family day in day out but also having family interested in the business but not having the experience or benefit of seeing what’s happening day to day so we have pretty regular communications between in terms of what’s happening in the business, asking for feedback that they’re both very helpful and useful, these are my brothers who don’t work in the business. Craig: Yeah. Nick: But balancing that you also have a clear distinction of what’s business time and what’s family time because there’s always that tendency to make family time always business time and I think that’s critical particularly in terms of my own domestic situation as well, I’ve got a partner who doesn’t work and the person that’s end to end in terms of say my parents with their grandchildren and things like that. It’s still got to operate in a normal situation and we are very open with each other so there’s never any issues in terms of overstepping lines or boundaries. Craig: Yeah. Nick: And I think it’s really important that everyone gets their chance to have a say but at the end of it, we still sit down for dinner. Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Cool. So you’ve always had external professionals and mentors for your business and I believe now you’ve got a Board of Directors and an independent director tell us about what made you decide that you needed this and the benefits of using these strategies and advise that is out there around using mentors or Board of Directors, etc. Nick: I guess one of the critical thing is finding the right advice, independent advice and it can be a struggle at times, so I guess what I sort of found is keep persevering until you find exactly what you need at that particular time and your levels of advice and who can advise you changes as the business continues to change…and… Craig: Evolves. As the business evolves… Nick: Exactly, so I think the best thing you can do is get out there and take advice as step one but then if you’re not getting the right sort of advice is going out and looking for some different advice. Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Nick: So, we’ve had, as you mentioned, a range from formal strategic planning with our accountants through the business mentors through to now an independent director who I work with closely on a daily basis and they’ve all had their uses and purpose but having an independent voice daily looks like some of the skill gaps that we have or that I have as well is really important and I guess that’s what I see the benefit…the main benefit of the independent board is to plug the skill gaps and I mean we are looking now at maybe bringing another independent onto the board who has some different skill set that none of us have secure around dealing with marketing to the end consumer… Craig: Right. Nick: And events cg and things like that so it’s… Craig: So it’s skill gaps or experience gaps? Nick: I guess both are incredibly relevant because you get the skills from experience so I think yeah. I think both are intertwined. Craig: And you said before that when you first started out your sort of a range of advisers, I mean, it’s the right advice. When you start out were you ever nervous and scared about what’s going on. So how do you know if you get some right advice? If you’re speaking to for example an accountant and they say you should be doing this strategy, how do you know, is that the gut instinct or it is…how do you know if it’s the right one or the wrong one? Nick: Yeah, it’s a good question because I guess when you go into business you’re always confident and pigheaded and you don’t really wanna take advice. Craig: No. Nick: And then to sit over the table with someone and, no offence when you’re listening to maybe to sit over the table with someone, no offence to any listeners who may be in the accounting profession or something. Craig: Someone’s profession… Nick: Who’s telling you you’re doing this wrong, you’re doing that wrong. You know, it can be difficult so I think it’s not a case of knowing or choosing what that right advice is at the start but getting a lot of advice and really going out there and getting as much in as you can and taking bits and pieces from different sources to kind of form that plan because you and only you, I guess will know exactly how the business is going internally or what your dreams and goals and things are but it does help to get as much advice from them. Craig: So that could be what we’ve talked about accountant, but there could be other business owners that could be lawyers, other professionals, and that’s where networking comes in, isn’t it? You realize that when you network, you understand that same…your peers to having the same issues you have even if they might be in a different industry. Nick: Exactly and as many people you can speak to as possible. You know, whether it’s just a friendly ear or someone that you admire, in your industry or a different industry. It can be really beneficial to have that engagement. Craig: Awesome, so the benefit of hindsight, we all do this. What would you do differently? Nick: Hindsight, oh yeah, it’s a great thing. Craig: No, it’s not. It’s a terrible thing! Nick: I guess that’s one thing our plan is not to dwell too much on the past. We do a year review the end of each year and pick out the points of what went good and bad and then put it together and then don’t really dwell on it too much because again, it’s what you’re looking into the future that really controls things. So I guess with hindsight, what I would do it has been more of a focus on margin analysis in our business, so which products work well, where we can extract the most value and also a better handle on cash flow and budget so that financial side of the business from the get-go. I spend a lot of focus now on cash flow and planning cash flow a couple of months in advance and… Craig: So you turned into an accountant? Nick: Yeah, well, I… Craig: [laughs] Nick: I think maybe I’m turning into an accountant but that was a chance to really tighten the skill gaps that I had. Craig: Right. Nick: In the financial management side of things and now that’s one of our strengths where a lot of similar sized businesses I see don’t have a handle on cash flow, which in my business, can actually be quite difficult with online selling because we don’t know when people are gonna bulk buy meat packs and what’s gonna happen which is why we’ve diversified the business from just straight online sales to other traditional sales so that we’ve got consistent cash flow coming in. Craig: A little bit of advice to people. Look after your cash flow and mind your budget, sounds like you’re good at. A couple of hours a week takes to analyse what else has happened that week which is critical. Nick: I guess that’s one thing that having an independent director allows me to do because we have a phone call every Friday afternoon, which… Craig: Hi guys, so from your experiences, what are some of the mistakes that you see business owners are making. So, we talked a little bit about cash flow. Anything else that… Nick: Yeah. I guess, something a little different and that I can see out there I see is that they are content both in terms of their businesses and their industries and not pushing their boundaries and or doing the… trying alternative ways to do things and obviously in the retail side of things. I guess something else I am saying is people being content in terms of their…inside their businesses and in terms of marketing their businesses as well so obviously, the example is that the evolution of online selling and the effect it has on traditional purchasing, and brick and mortar stores and it kinda seems like…to some of them that it’s come out of nowhere whereas the evolution of online selling has been happening in time over the last ten years or so. So I think, I see that both as established businesses and the traditional business being content can often come back to hurt them later on. So, i mean, that’s something else we noticed and why we’re doing things differently as well. Craig: So, the moral of the story is don’t be scared of pushing the boundaries and thinking outside the square box, just give it a go. Nick: And also staying on top of things and not just resting on your laurels because you don’t really know what’s around the corner. Craig: Don’t be scared of what’s around the corner. Nick: Yeah. That’s just saying a little bit no matter how established you are. Craig: So is that the sort of advice you’d give to…if you were to mentor for a better general word, either both established or a startup…what other things would you… Nick: Yeah, it’s different keeping on top of thinss, looking overseas, seeing what’s happening whether you’re selling shoes or cats, or whatever. It’s…there’s a lot to…we’re fortunate in this part of the world that we’re a little behind as well. Craig: Yes, yes…I was gonna ask that. Nick: So, it’s kind of a good thing I think for us because we can have a look and see what’s happening overseas. Craig: You think sometimes, people fall into the trap of going overseas either to Europe or America, seeing something, trying to do it New Zealand but they’re too soon Nick: And obviously given our market size as well as the other key issue here, and also how spread out the market is. It’s a long way from the top of the North Island to Steward Island. Yes, I know, I definitely think that’s true and that’s where the difficulty, I guess comes in with what I just see is…do you become an adopter or do you follow… Craig: Become second tier. Nick: Yeah and there’s lot of risk, in obviously going out and being an early adopter and it falling in your face which… Craig: But then fortune favours the brave and… Nick: But again coming back to what I mentioned earlier on in the podcast is that’s where you’ve got a profitable and sustainable core being you’ve got those opportunities to go out and expand and you’ve still got that core business to I say loosely, to fall back on but you know… Craig: Yeah. To pay the bills… Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Craig: Yeah. Cool. Awesome. And so where do you see your industry going in the next five to ten years? Nick: Yeah, well in the markets, the direct food market, there’s differently more choice for quality and more relationships with…between consumers and producers so I definitely see that as an important step in what we’re trying to stay ahead of because people increasingly do want to know where their food comes from and how it’s produced and what’s going on so I think it’s only gonna get more and we’re gonna see return as one kind of crystal ball return to a lot traditional ways of doing things because the end user or consumer’s putting a price on all those so in our case, it’s manufactured products and more real products and people are prepared to pay more even though it costs more to produce but that’s where I see it headed. Craig: Alright. Cool. Awesome! Nick: And you’ll be more disrupters, I’ve already talked about MyFoodBank and seeing markets online so we find those disrupters coming into the market so I guess, listening to my own advice that’s where I need to stay ahead of and say exactly what’s happening in the market and what trends are coming up. Craig: Awesome. Awesome. Hey Nick, we’ll wrap it up. Thanks very much for your time. . How do we find you? Nick: Yeah so we are an online business. Our website, so you can check out our products at greenmeadowsbeef.co.nz and find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram with our page will get you there. Craig: Awesome! Right. Thank Nick! Good stuff! Nick: Sure!
Today we're talking with Nick Disabato of Draft, a small interaction design consultancy in Chicago. His previous clients include Gravitytank, New Music USA, Chicago Magazine, The Wirecutter, and too many other attractive, intelligent people to count. We spent quite a bit of time talking about his work designing a delightful user experience for Cards Against Humanity. We discuss... Cards Against Humanity marketing strategy Split-testing Conversion rate optimization And more Links: Cards Against Humanity - http://cardsagainsthumanity.com/ Cadence & Slang - http://cadence.cc/ Draft: Revise - https://draft.nu/revise/ Nick's newsletter - http://eepurl.com/vqJgv Visual Website Optimizer - https://vwo.com/ PS: Be sure to subscribe to the podcast via iTunes and write a review. iTunes is all about reviews! Transcript Recording: This is the Unofficial Shopify Podcast with Kurt Elster and Paul Reda, your resources for growing your Shopify business, sponsored by Ethercycle. Kurt: Welcome to the Unofficial Shoplift Podcast. I'm your host, Kurt Elster and with me today is Nick Disabato from Draft. Nick, how are you doing? Nick: Doing fantastic. How are you, man? Kurt: I'm well. Where are you at? Nick: I live and work in Logan Square, a neighborhood in Chicago and have been here for the past seven years. I've been independent for the past 3-1/2. Kurt: That's good. I'm about right miles from you in Park Ridge. It's funny we're doing this over Skype but we're like a bus ride apart. Nick: We are. We're probably a short L ride apart. Kurt: Tell me, who's Nick D? Nick: Nick D is me as I exist on the Internet and I run a small design consultancy called Draft as you mentioned and we do a lot of things. I publish books. I do monthly A/B testing for people. I run the world's stupidest newsletter but what I think we're here to be talking about is my one-off interaction design product, just more typical client work, more consulting work. I've done it for a variety of e-commerce clients and solved a lot of really interesting problems for both mobile and desktop and I think about these sorts of things a lot. That's kind of ... Kurt: For the lay person, what's interaction design? Nick: Interaction design, it's the process of making something easier to use and it involves hacking out the layout and behavior of a product. That can range from prototyping something and running it by users to see how they enjoy using it or whether they're successful at completing goals within it. It can range from promoting certain design decisions and hacking out functionality. It can involve figuring out edge cases like if you type in a really long response that doesn't belong in a certain form field, what happens? If you click here, what happens? It's figuring out to choose your own adventure capacity of going through a technology product of any type. I've worked... Kurt: It sounds like you're a problem solver for your clients. Give me a good example of a problem you solved with interaction design. Nick: We'll talk about e-commerce stuff. One of my biggest clients over the past few years was a board game company called Cards Against Humanity. Kurt: I dearly love Cards Against Humanity. Tell us about it. Nick: For your audience, if you do not know Cards Against Humanity, it's similar to a card game called Apples to Apples where I'm a person judging a card and everybody else plays another card only it's usually quite inappropriate. You have weird poop jokes or [scathalogical 00:03:03] things. Kurt: The favorite combo I ever got, the winning combo I ever got out of Cards Against Humanity, I will never forget. It was "Santa gives the bad children genital piercings." That was genius. Nick: My personal favorite is 'What's the last thing Michael Jackson thought about before he died?' and somebody played Michael Jackson. Kurt: That one is layers on layers. Nick: Oh my God, I still think about it. It's amazing. I've worked with them to define all of the layout and behavior for their e-commerce system. They now have, in addition to Amazon, you can buy stuff directly through them. You go through and they run through Stripe. It's not through Shopify but it's entirely independent and entirely custom. What they wanted was something that worked pretty well on mobile and they wanted something that was a little more unconventional to fit their business's needs. Cards Against Humanity, for those of you who don't know, they're a relatively unconventional business just in terms of their tone and in the way that they carry themselves and the way that they deal with their customers. Kurt: That has totally differentiated and set them apart. Nick: Yes. I think a large part of Cards Against Humanity's success is their marketing and their outreach. They do a terrific job of both of those but they do a very ... Kurt: I've seen their marketing and it's amazing. They do one-off promo cards. I've got their House of Cards promo set that they did co-branding with Netflix. What kind of outreach do they do? Nick: They do a lot of ... They'll reply to people on Twitter. They'll follow along with people's activity. They'll pay attention to what people are talking about and they'll try and be a little bit proactive about it. As far as their site is concerned, their tone is very distinctive. It's ... Kurt: Absolutely, it irreverent. Nick: Yes, it's irreverent. It's a little bit standoffish, a little bit jerk but fun jerk. It's like [inaudible 00:05:09]. Kurt: Yeah. You love them for being mean to you. It's like Ed Debevic's.. Nick: [Crosstalk 00:05:10]. Yeah, it is like Ed Debevic's a little bit which is a diner in Chicago that ... Kurt: Right, [inaudible 00:05:15]. Nick: It's definitely one of those things where they own their voice and they know how to do it. If you go through the prompts on their Website, if you go to ... I believe it's store.cardsagainsthumanity.com. You can go there and buy stuff and they ask you what country you're from right away. We can go to a UX teardown of why that is but I'll give you the high level. They go to country [crosstalk 00:05:40] right away. Kurt: I'm already there. Nick: If you choose I live in the rest of the world like not US or Canada or UK or something like that, they'll be like, "Begone foul foreigner" or something like that." They'll just make fun of you. "Send us an e-mail for when Cards Against Humanity is available in your inferior country" or something like that. They're just totally blanked up. UI Copy was definitely an enormous component of it. It's part of why I'm getting to this because I wrote a fair amount of the UI copy that is still on there right now. Another thing that you'll see on the page if you go through it while you're listening to this podcast is you'll see a row of information at the top of it. You'll go and buy something, you'll hit Pay Now and you'll see country recipient, e-mail and shipping and what it says is ... It says USA. It'll try and geolocate you and then it'll say, "Not right." You can tap back to that and two things are happening there. You can edit your order as you're going and it reads the order back to you. One thing that you see in Shopify in particular or in e-commerce in general like Amazon or anything like that, it reads your order back to you before you hit Place Order. That's an extra click that you don't necessarily need because you could get this kind of inline feedback. There's no reason why you couldn't get inline feedback. I built the interaction model to fit that and people liked it. There were two things that people called out – the way that the feedback was being read back to you and the way that it was auto-correcting as it goes. If you type in your zip code, it autocorrects to your city and state and is usually accurate. That's pretty cool and it does have for both USPS and Canada Post. It requests little information from you, moves you through the process as fast as possible at the minimum of clicks. I wrote a book that called about interaction cycle, Cadence & Slang. One of the things I say is reduce the number of steps to complete a task. I tried to make this kind of exemplar of that principle by making it as efficient as humanly possible. The other thing that people talk about is when you actually go buy something, which I see you're tapping through that right now, Kurt, that I would ... Once you finish the transaction it says, "Now, go outside" and makes fun of you about the fact that you're on the Internet and it links ... Kurt: It shames you for your order. Nick: It already has your address and if you click "Now, go outside," it searches on Google Maps for parks near you. Kurt: [Crosstalk 00:08:07]. This is incredibly clever stuff. Nick: It's thinking like, okay, I'm on a computer and I'm refreshing it whenever an expansion comes out or I'm doing all these other things and it just wants ... It's like, "Oh, by the way, you're on the Internet. Now, you don't have to be on the Internet anymore. You gave us money. Just go away." That's most of the design decisions behind this. I feel like a lot of people just reinvent the wheel with e-commerce. They want to do something safe. One of the great things with Cards Against Humanity is they don't want safe. They don't care. They want to get the orders okay but if you're messing it up, it's not their fault. It's your fault for this particular organization. [Crosstalk 00:08:56]. Kurt: Yeah, like the whole ... the entire experience ... Like it's easy to use and it's great but at the same time the game ... It starts with a product. You've got this incredibly irreverent game and then that gets extended to the messaging and the copy and the positioning. Then amazingly where everyone else would have stopped, they moved it into the actual user interface. The interaction itself is irreverent. Nick: There are a couple of people at Cards that handle a goodly amount of the logistics in getting the cards printed and shipped and everything. To use a developer term, they are a full-stack operation. They deal with the printer. They deal with Amazon. They deal with the warehouse. They want to build a vertically-integrated system for [crosstalk 00:09:40]. Kurt: I was going to say that sounds like a vertical integration. Nick: They're a good enough business and are popular enough that they can get away with it. They could ... If I did that ... Kurt: It's a great product. People love it. It's a catch-22. People love it because of these irreverent decisions but at the same time, are they able to make those irreverent decisions because people love it? It's like where do you start with that? Nick: I would be putting words in their mouth but I suspect it's kind of a feedback loop. They make these decisions and they realize they're getting rewarded for it by having more business and so, they end up making more irreverent decisions in more irreverent ways. Kurt: Why, yes. You're right. It does. It rewards itself. Anyone could start trying this and if it doesn't work out, you shouldn't do it. Nick: Yeah. I run a large part of my design practice as A/B testing. You could build this and run half of your users through it and if your conversion rate drops, either try and tweak it or throw it away. That way you're not losing an insane amount of sales on your testing idea. You're vetting whether it works for you. I suspect at least certain conceits of these like auto-complete and providing this feedback. I don't see any personal reason why that couldn't exist in other e-commerce context. I really don't. Kurt: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned split testing. Tell us briefly, what is split testing? Nick: It's essentially you have an idea and rather than fighting about it internally about whether it's a good idea, you let people decide and you're letting real customers decide. This can be anything. This can be a call to action button. This can be a headline. This can be a person on your homepage selling the thing. It can be whether a video autoplays or not. It can be any design decision you want and you have a control page which is your original page. You send that by 50% of your users and then the other goes to the other 50%, whatever you're varying and you're measuring success in sales, signups for your mailing lists, whatever have you. It can be anything that you want. Kurt: As long as it's a measurable goal. Nick: You have a goal, right. You can do this with multiple variations. Most of my A/B tests are in fact A-B-C-D-E tests where I'm vetting many different variations of something and many different permutations of something and testing it with real-life people. It reduces risk because you're running many variants. You're optimizing the page slowly and you're throwing away what doesn't work and learning what does work and where you want to be putting more of your efforts. Even a failure, which is a plurality of your tests are failures or inconclusive, you're still learning where you don't want to be putting your efforts, like you don't need to be fighting over that link, that sort of thing. I always try and frame it in a very positive way. Kurt: It's interesting. The way you brought it up is you don't have to fight about it internally. It's a great way to talk about it because in our design practice that's generally how I bring up the idea of split testing is when the client pushes back on something or they attribute some loss in sales to a change and I say, "Actually, we don't have to guess about it. We could split test it and know for certain." It's usually how I introduce that concept. Nick: Yes. Kurt: As soon as you say, "We can know for sure and we can know scientifically," then people become very interested in it. What's your favorite tool for split testing? Nick: I give all of my clients ... I have a monthly A/B testing tool or a service called Draft Revise where you pay me a certain amount every month and I run tests for you and write up reports and that's it. You never have to worry about the practice of doing this. I use something called Visual Website Optimizer. It shortens to VWO. You can go to vwo.com. For a few of my clients, I use something called Optimizely, if you go to optimizely.com. Both of those are terrific. They have very small differences at this point. It's like Canon and Nikon. They're just snipping at each other and it's making both of them much better. Kurt: I've used them. I've personally used VWO. I really liked it. I used the Google split testing tool. That thing's a nightmare. Nick: Yeah, it's changey. I would pay the money for V. If you have enough scale to get statistical validity out of the A/B tests which typically you need at least 3,000 or 4,000 [uniques 00:13:53 ] a month to be doing that for whatever goal you're measuring, usually it's more, you're probably making enough money that you can afford Visual Website Optimizer, no question or Optimizely. Don't do the free Google stuff. It just sucks. Kurt: The amount of time I wasted messing with that wasn't worth it. VWO is so much easier. Nick: Yeah, don't bother. Kurt: The support is really good. I'm not condemning Optimizely. I've literally just never used Optimizely. That's a good way to get into it for our listeners. If it's confusing or they don't want to deal with it, your service is great. I've seen the reports you run and I'm not even plugging it. It's just genuinely good stuff that you do. Nick: Thank you. It's one of those things where a lot of people don't know how to start and they don't know how to do it and I have two different offerings. One of them is a one-off like I give you a guide and I give you a lot of suggestions for what you can test and what you can change things to, things that I would change. You're getting a UX teardown and a write-up of how to put into practice but I find that a handful of those come back to me and they're like, "Can you just do this for us?" Kurt: Essentially, what you've said to them is like, "Here's a plan for immediate success based on my vast experience and you could do whatever you want with it." I imagine a lot of people are going to be, "All right, fine. You know what you're doing. You just take care of those for me." Nick: Yeah, and they're already used to paying me and I give them a discount on their first month. If they pay me $900 for Revise Express Report and then they sign up for a 2000-dollar plan for Draft Revise, you're paying only $1,100 for the first month which at that point you're not getting charged twice. You're able to hit the ground running. I signed up a Revise Express client recently for Draft Revise and it's been going well. We went from not having anything together to contract signed and A/B tests running on their site in three days because I already knew it. Kurt: That's good. Nick: I wrapped my head around it. It was great. Kurt: When you're wrapping your head around it, how do you approach optimizing a site? Nick: It depends on the site. Let's say it's like a typical SaaS business. I look at the things that I know changing them will yield a lot of fruit and that can be common elements to optimize like your headline or your call to action or testimonial quotes, stuff like that which is very optimizing 101 type stuff. Or I'd look at things that I see are clearly bad like if you have an e-mail list signup form and the button says Submit. Unless you are [crosstalk 00:16:39]. Kurt: I look for the stuff that just like, "This is painful. This goes against every best practice. Let's fix this first and get our baseline back to zero." Nick: Yeah. I break things into two categories. One of them is one-off design changes which are beyond the need for testing. Things like if you make your button Submit. Unless you're an S&M site, you have no business making your buttons Submit, all these other things. Then I also look at things and suggest "Let's test this because I'm not sure." The difference between those two is confidence. I'm still changing things. I'm changing elements on the page but I'm not fully confident that changing your headline to this one thing is going to speak to your customers effectively especially because I've been working with you for only three days if I'm doing these teardowns. It's very like intuition at that point. I will check everything within ... If you're a SaaS business, call your conversion funnel like your homepage to your pricing page to your signup page to your onboarding to all that and then you get converted from a trial into a paying customer eventually. There are a bunch of pages that you have to go through in that flow to actually figure that out. I try and vet all of those and figure out if I were building your site and figuring out your marketing page and trying to figure out a really good way to speak to people, would I do this? I bring in my experience working with dozens of SaaS businesses and e-commerce sites to bear on that and eight years of interaction design experience. That's often something that they can't get internally because I don't know any actual fulltime UX employees who've worked for as many individual clients as I have. Kurt: They couldn't possibly. Earlier you had mentioned to me the other day that you're working on something with Harper Reed. Nick: Yeah. I did it for six weeks. It was a one-off project with Harper Reed. For those who don't know, he elected the president at the beginning of ... starting at the beginning of last ... No, two years ago. It was 2012. Kurt: The way I view it is Harper Reed personally defeated Mitt Romney. Nick: His tech team certainly did. He built the team that ... It almost feels like that. If you read the teardowns of it, they're amazing but he has a startup now which is essentially a mobile e-commerce startup called Modest. It's at modest.com and first project that he did was a storefront for a toy and game manufacturer called [Choonimals 00:19:04], if you go to Choonimals Website. He's a friend of mine. He works and lives in Chicago. He works in Fulton Market. They had me come on and just be another pair of eyes on their UX. They already had a lot of interesting UX ideas there. I'm not going to take remote amount of credit for some of the most novel and fascinating parts of it but I agree with the conceit. A lot of the things were already coming together like scanning your credit card with the iPhone's camera is one of them and Uber does that. There's a JavaScript library called card.io that lets you do that where it just turns on your flashlight and lets you take a photo of your credit card and it scans your number in so you don't have to manually type it and reduce the error [inaudible 00:19:52]. He has a thing where you can buy stuff and it's basically buy with one touch and then if you ... You get a grace period where you could undo that. You can un-buy something and then ... Kurt: The easier you make something to buy, if people aren't used to that standard yet, I think there is a lot of that ... I wouldn't call it cognitive dissonance. Nick: I think you're just thrown off expectations-wise. There's a mismatch. Kurt: Yeah. Or it becomes too easy and suddenly, it's frightening. You have to have that grace period, that undo. Nick: I did not come up with these ideas to be clear. I helped refine them and offer my own ideas about them which is just like fit and finish. The idea of un-buying, you might tap something and it says Buy. It's very clear you're buying something but you don't even get an undo button in the app store if you buy something. You tap it on your iPhone. Kurt: Yeah. I bought a lot of silly things. I wish there was an undo button in the app store. Nick: I don't let myself check the app store while I'm drunk anymore because I just threw up and buy some 30-dollar application that's just ill-advised but this is like they're not going to ... It's a physical good usually. They're not going to ship it for another day at least or five hours if it's [overnighted 00:21:08] or something like that. At which point, you have a chance to take back that notion and edit your order. You barely get the chance to edit your order or merge orders on Amazon as it stands. Kurt: With Amazon, it's a scam. You could cancel an order while it's in progress but once you put cancel, it says, "We're going to try to cancel it" and it's like less than 50% of the time that it actually manages to cancel it. Nick: Right and if you're Prime, they probably already have it sent on a drone to you so you don't even know. It's one of those things where it just seems obvious that you should have an undo button when you're buying something. Kurt: Absolutely. You've got a lot of experience with this. Give me one tip for – obviously this is tough because it's general – one tip for an e-commerce store owner who's looking to grow the revenue. Nick: I'm going to drill down into this tip. You need to make it as easy for the person to buy the thing as possible and easy for them to back out of it and so, cutting down the number of steps. If you're asking for any extraneous information, if you are deliberately asking for both billing and shipping address, if you're splitting the person's name into three different fields, if you're not supporting auto-complete, those are all different forms of the same problem which is you're making the person enter more data than is necessary. Make the person input les data. Nobody likes to fill out a form. You don't want to feel like you're in a doctor's office buying a product. That's the one tip that I've got. Kurt: I guess it's pretty common with Shopify store owners. They want to do less work personally. They want like or go, "Can you make it ask them X, Y and Z thing?" and we'd say, "Sure, we could build out these product options for your products." Then when we do it, their conversion rate plummets and they're like, "Why did that happen?" Well, because you just made it really hard to buy from you. Nick: Yeah. Doing this auto-complete ... Going back to Cards Against Humanity, doing the auto-complete for your address and address validation and making it as fast as it is on that site is tremendously difficult. It is not easy programming to be putting in. Doing this focus is really hard but their sales bear out how they're doing. It justifies that decision. It almost says the amount of work that you put into the site and making it smarter, making the defaults easier and making it easier for the person, that's hard work but it directly connects to your conversion rate and if you're delighted about it ... I can't tell you how many positive twits happened when the first storefront came out that talked explicitly about the user experience and shared that out. It said, "Oh, you have to buy something." Who says "Oh, you have to buy something" about an e-commerce store? Kurt: You have to experience this. Nick: You have to experience getting sent to a park nearby you. That's very unexpected. Kurt: People are just ignoring the product itself. They'll just buy it for the sake of the purchasing experience. Nick: Right. Kurt: People don't think ... They would never think twice about someone making the interior of a retail store nice, making it easy to buy something there but as soon as it comes to e-commerce, then suddenly it's like the strange thing that no one wants to spend money on. Nick: It's funny because Apple's retail stores are beautiful and amazing and their UX is incredible. If you go in person, they swipe your card there in front of the computer and somebody walks the computer out to you and ... Kurt: Have you ever paid with cash in the Apple store? Nick: I have not. Kurt: It's same deal but the cash register is hidden inside one of the display tables. Just like the face of the table pops open. The cash box was in there the whole time. It's clearly on remote. They still use their iPhone and then the thing pops open. Nick: Right. Their UX is amazing but I bought an iPhone. I bought the new iPhone from the Apple store online the other day. Kurt: Did you go with the 6 or the 6-plus? Nick: I have 6. Kurt: You don't have monster gorilla paws is what you're telling me. Nick: No, I have normal human being hands and I don't need a Phablet. I have an iPad Mini. Anyway, I was going on it and I was on the Website, not the app just to be clear. I think the app is better but it was not fun. It sucked. It was really flunky and weird and it could be better. You're selling ... You're the biggest company in the world. You can fix that. Kurt: I noticed that they do one clever thing. You can choose multiple payment methods. I don't think I've seen that anywhere else. Nick: Amazon ... Kurt: If you were to max out your credit card and then finish up with a second credit card, they will let you do that. Nick: Or if you have one of those crappy gift cards that you get from the grocery store, like somebody gives you 100-dollar gift card and you have 18 cents left on it and you feel bad wasting that 18 cents, you could put that on the card. Kurt: You could do it. Nick: Right. That's edge [casey 00:25:58], feasible. Kurt: That's an argument I have with people is about edge cases where it's like, okay, we could fix this problem that one of 100 people have but what's that impact on the other 99 out of 100 people? I think Apple has walked themselves into that. Nick: Yeah. They can accommodate edge cases. I know that Amazon used to accommodate that sort of edge case and then they got rid of it for whatever reason. They probably saw that it wasn't diminishing returns or something but anyway. Kurt: That's a thing you could split test. Nick: Right, yeah. I'm sure Amazon does. Amazon A/B tests everything. I get bucketed into A/B tester of their pages all the time. I find it redesigns itself and I refresh it and it goes away [crosstalk 00:26:42]. Kurt: Or open an incognito window and it's a different site. Yeah, I've had that happen. Nick: Yeah. Kurt: If I wanted to learn more from you, the best way would be to do what? Nick: You should subscribe to my mailing list because it's funny. Kurt: I subscribe to it. I enjoy it, lots of good Chicago references in there. Nick: There are a lot of good Chicago ... Kurt: Like the hotdog story. Nick: There was a story ... It's a dog stand that's very popular here. It's closing this week. That is a very good way to get to know me as a person. If you want to know more about interaction design, I would go to cadence.cc which is my book, Cadence & Slang, and grab a copy. It is generally considered one of the more important texts on interaction design by people far more famous and important than me which is terrifying. Kurt: I have read it. It is genuinely good. Nick: Awesome, thank you. That's the best way to get to understand the kind of stuff that I'm talking about with e-commerce. It's applicable to any technological project but the ultimate goal is just to make things more efficient and pleasurable to use. Kurt: Fantastic. That's great. Thank you, Nick. Thank you for joining us and have a great day. Nick: Thank you so much. Take care.
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