Podcasts about pinakothek

Er hat es wieder geschafft: Jafar Panahi hat einen Film gedreht. Heimlich, im Iran. Und was für einen! In "Ein einfacher Unfall" prangert er die Foltermethoden der iranischen Regierung an. In Cannes hat er seinen Film vorgestellt, Julia Borutta war dabei / Ein Konservativer - aber was für einer? Die Journalistin Mariam Lau im Gespräch über ihr Buch "Merz. Auf der Suche nach der verlorenen Mitte" / "100 Jahre - 100 Objekte": Die Neue Sammlung in München, das größte Designmuseum der Welt, feiert in der Pinakothek ihr Jubiläum mit einer Ausstellung, Julie Metzdorf hat die Schau besucht.

Folakunle Oshun is an artist and curator currently based in Paris. He is the Founder of the Lagos Biennial, a non-profit contemporary art platform that privileges adventurous approaches to artmaking, presentation, and critical discourse–aspiring to broach complex social and political problems, cultivate new publics, and establish fresh modes of engagement within the city, as well as throughout the country and internationally. Its next exhibition is in 2026. You might know Folakunle from his work curating the incredibly popular Lagos, Peckham, Repeat Exhibition for the South London Gallery. He was also invited to Munich's Pinakothek der Moderne as a guest curator for the group exhibition LOOK AT THIS in 2021. He also served as an advisor for the Africa Season (2020). His solo exhibition “Museum of Hope” opened in the same year at the Berliner Dom.Oshun earned a B.A. in Visual Art from the University of Lagos, majoring in Sculpture, and an M.A. in Art History. He was the first recipient of the Curator-in-Residence grant by the Potsdam City Council, Brandenburg, Germany, in (2017).  In 2021, Folakunle Oshun was invited as Guest Professor to the Staatliche Hochschule für Gestaltung Karlsruhe to lead the seminar “Spatial Politics and Story Telling.” He is currently a Doctoral candidate at the Heritage Laboratory, of Cergy University, École Nationale Supérieure d'Arts de Paris-Cergy, France. He also lectures at the university. 

This week: after a two-year closure, the National Gallery's Sainsbury Wing reopens this week, revealing a major overhaul by the architect Annabelle Selldorf. The gallery has also rehung its entire collection and Ben Luke takes a tour of both the revamped building and the new displays with the National Gallery director, Gabriele Finaldi. Tate Modern celebrates its 25th anniversary this weekend, and Luke talks to The Art Newspaper's contemporary art correspondent Louisa Buck and another of our regular contributors, Dale Berning Sawa, about its seismic impact in London and beyond over the past quarter of a century, its complex present circumstances and its future. And this episode's Work of the Week is the late German artist Inge Mahn's sculpture Balancing Towers (1989). It is a key work in an exhibition called “Are we still up to it?” – Art & Democracy at the Herrenchiemsee, the castle on an island in the Chiemsee lake, in southern Bavaria, Germany. Oliver Kase, the director of collections at the Pinakothek der Moderne, in Munich, and co-curator of the exhibition, joins Luke to discuss the sculpture.The Sainsbury Wing and CC Land: The Wonder of Art, National Gallery, London, from 10 May. You can hear a conversation with Annabelle Selldorf about the Frick Collection on the episode of this podcast from 28 March 2025. And our interview with the architectural critic Rowan Moore reflecting on the debate about Selldorf's alterations to the original Sainsbury Wing project is in the episode from 4 November 2022.Tate Modern's 25th Birthday Weekender, Tate Modern, London, 9-12 May.“Are we still up to it?” – Art & Democracy, Herrenchiemsee Palace, Chiemsee, Germany, 10 May-12 October Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Gestern nahm Bernhard Maaz freiwillig seinen Hut als Generaldirektor der Bayerischen Staatsgemäldesammlungen. Dabei sind die Vorwürfe, unter seiner Leitung sei die Klärung von eventuellen Rückgaben von NS-Raubkunst verschleppt worden, zwischenzeitig zumindest teilweise entkräftet worden. Doch es gibt noch andere Vorwürfe. Tobias Ruhland im Gespräch mit Museums-Experte Stefan Koldehoff / Die französische Autorin Yasmina Reza verbringt viel Zeit in Gerichtssälen. Das Ergebnis ist ein Erzählband mit dem Titel: "Die Rückseite des Lebens". Judith Heitkamp hat das Buch gelesen und mit der Autorin gesprochen / "4 Museen - 1 Moderne": Die neue Ausstellung in der Pinakothek der Moderne ist die erste Gemeinschaftsausstellung aller vier im Museumsbau von Stephan Braunfels beherbergten Häuser. Das Thema: die Moderne. Julie Metzdorf berichtet.

Renate Christin: "Den Farben Leben geben". Bis 2. Februar im Kunstverein Landshut / "Wo die wilden Striche wohnen". Bücher und Illustrationen für Kinder. Bis 26.01. in der Pinakothek der Moderne in München.

Die Alte Pinakothek in München mit ihrer Sammlung alter Meister zählt noch heute zu den spektakulärsten Kunstmuseen in Deutschland. Auch dem Besucher Albert Mähl, der heute eher für seine niederdeutschen Dichtungen und Theaterstücke in Erinnerung geblieben ist, hat es die dortige Ausstellung sehr angetan. Nach anfänglicher Distanz gehört seine wortreiche Bewunderung insbesondere den italienischen Exponaten, die in München von Perugino über vor allem Raffael bis Tintoretto reichen. Aber auch die Säle mit den deutschen und flämischen Meistern lassen den Autor im Hamburger Anzeiger vom 23. Januar 1925 ins Schwärmen geraten. Frank Riede schwärmt für uns mit.

"Den Menschen vor Augen" - Italienische Zeichnungen von 1450 bis 1750 in der Graphischen Sammlung der Pinakothek der Moderne. Von Stefan Mekiska. Oscar-Hoffnungen - Wer steht auf der Kandidatenliste für den wichtigsten Preis von Hollywood? Mit Markus Aicher. Die Arbeit der Kostümbildnerinnen - Vor "Caligula"-Premiere im Münchner Volkstheater. Von Susanne Brandl.

Le corps noir est au cœur des photos de Mame-Diarra Niang exposées à la Fondation Henri Cartier-Bresson. Un corps qu'elle souhaite libérer des assignements qui lui ont été imposés dans l'histoire occidentale. Les images montrent des silhouettes floutées au sein de paysages, des portraits à la limite de l'abstraction, autant de photos glanées sur des écrans et retravaillées par l'artiste. Et c'est la première exposition d'envergure à Paris de la photographe française née à Lyon et déjà très reconnue dans le monde. Elle a montré son travail à Johannesburg et Amsterdam et a participé aux Biennales de Sharjah, Dakar, São Paulo ou encore Berlin. Ses œuvres ont aussi intégré d'importantes collections comme celles du MoMA ou de la Pinakothek der Moderne de Munich. L'exposition est à voir jusqu'au 5 janvier 2025 à la Fondation Henri Cartier-Bresson.  À écouter dans Vous m'en direz des nouvellesÀ Paris Photo, Mame-Diarra Niang nous tend le miroir du flou

Le corps noir est au cœur des photos de Mame-Diarra Niang exposées à la Fondation Henri Cartier-Bresson. Un corps qu'elle souhaite libérer des assignements qui lui ont été imposés dans l'histoire occidentale. Les images montrent des silhouettes floutées au sein de paysages, des portraits à la limite de l'abstraction, autant de photos glanées sur des écrans et retravaillées par l'artiste. Et c'est la première exposition d'envergure à Paris de la photographe française née à Lyon et déjà très reconnue dans le monde. Elle a montré son travail à Johannesburg et Amsterdam et a participé aux Biennales de Sharjah, Dakar, São Paulo ou encore Berlin. Ses œuvres ont aussi intégré d'importantes collections comme celles du MoMA ou de la Pinakothek der Moderne de Munich. L'exposition est à voir jusqu'au 5 janvier 2025 à la Fondation Henri Cartier-Bresson.  À écouter dans Vous m'en direz des nouvellesÀ Paris Photo, Mame-Diarra Niang nous tend le miroir du flou

Almut Heise: Bis 5. Januar in der Staatlichen Graphischen Sammlung in der Pinakothek der Moderne / "Der Ältere Holbein - Augsburg an der Schwelle zur europäischen Kunstmetropole". Bis 20. Oktober im Schaezlerpalais in Augsburg.

Zum 80. Geburtstag widmet die Pinakothek der Moderne in München der Künstlerin eine Einzelausstellung / Bruce Springsteen wird 75 - der Boss feiert Geburtstag / Der neue Abend auf Bayern 2: Michi Bartle im Gespräch

Prominenter Neuzugang: Ein echter Picasso gehört nun den Bayerischen Staatsgemäldesammlungen. Für Kunstkenner:innen ist die "femme au violon" ein Schlüsselwerk des Kubismus. Wie viel Geld dafür floss? Das und mehr hat Knut Cordsen die BR-Kunstexpertin Julie Metzdorf gefragt. Ein Gespräch / Der 73. Internationale ARD-Musikwettbewerb ging gestern zu Ende. Eine Bilanz von Tobias Hell / Theater und Thüringen: Hasko Weber, Chef des Deutschen Nationaltheaters in Weimar, startete seine letzte Spielzeit ausgerechnet mit "Salome "von Richard Strauss - und das mitten in Thüringen, wo der AfD-Erfolg derzeit alles überschattet, gerade auch die Arbeit der Kulturschaffenden. Ein Bericht von Peter Jungblut / Moderation: Knut Cordsen

düsseldorfphoto+ talk 03 und 04. Mit Anne Eléonore Gagnon und Dr. Franziska Kunze Andy Scholz präsentiert in dieser Episode Ton-Mitschnitte aus den vorerst letzten beiden »photo+ talks« der Biennale for Visual and Sonic Media düsseldorfphotoplus. Konzipiert von Rupert Pfab. Anne Eléonore Gagnon sprach über die Fotobiennale Nicéphore+ in Clermont-Ferrand, die sich seit ihrer Gründung im Jahr 2000 mit der Frage beschäftigt, wie sich die Wahrnehmung der Realität und unsere Beziehung zum Bild seit der Erfindung der Fotografie entwickelt haben. Sie ist Leiterin der Biennale und arbeitet als Szenografin und Ausstellungskuratorin. Die Veranstaltung war in französischer Sprache mit deutscher Übersetzung und fand am Donnerstag 20. Juni 2024 von 18–20 Uhr im K21 Ständehaus, unter der Kuppel (4. OG) in Düsseldorf statt. https://en.festivalphoto-nicephore.com/ Franziska Kunze erörtert in ihrem Vortrag die verschiedenen medialen und materiellen Ausformungen des Fotografischen in der Verschränkung zu elektronischen und digitalen Bildlichkeiten. Franziska Kunze leitet die Sammlung Fotografie und Zeitbasierte Medien an der Pinakothek der Moderne in München. Der Vortrag war am Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2024, von 18–20 Uhr im Roten Salon21 im K21 Ständehaus in Düsseldorf. https://www.pinakothek-der-moderne.de Mehr infos zur Biennale for Visual and sonic media düsseldorfphotoplus unter: https://www.duesseldorfphotoplus.de https://www.instagram.com/duesseldorfphotoplus/ - - - Episoden-Cover-Gestaltung: Andy Scholz Episoden-Cover-Fotos: düsseldorfphotoplus Idee, Produktion, Redaktion, Moderation, Schnitt, Ton, Musik: Andy Scholz Der Podcast ist eine Produktion von STUDIO ANDY SCHOLZ 2020-2024. Andy Scholz wurde 1971 in Varel. Er studierte Philosophie und Medienwissenschaften in Düsseldorf, Kunst und Design an der HBK Braunschweig und Fotografie/Fototheorie in Essen an der Folkwang Universität der Künste. Seit 2005 ist er freier Künstler, Autor sowie seit 2016 künstlerischer Leiter und Kurator vom INTERNATIONALEN FESTIVAL FOTOGRAFISCHER BILDER, das er gemeinsam mit Martin Rosner 2016 in Regensburg gründete. Seit 2012 unterrichtet er an verschiedenen Instituten, u.a. Universität Regensburg, Fachhochschule Würzburg, North Dakota State University in Fargo (USA), Philipps-Universität Marburg, Ruhr Universität Bochum, seit 2022 auch an der Pädagogischen Hochschule Ludwigsburg. Im ersten Lockdown, im Juni 2020, begann er mit dem Podcast. Er lebt und arbeitet in Essen. http://fotografieneudenken.de/ https://www.instagram.com/fotografieneudenken/ https://festival-fotografischer-bilder.de/ https://www.instagram.com/festivalfotografischerbilder/ https://deutscherfotobuchpreis.de/ https://www.instagram.com/deutscher_fotobuchpreis/ http://andyscholz.com/ https://www.instagram.com/scholzandy/

A conversation between filmmaker Sosena Solomon, designer and urban scholar/theorist Mpho Matsipa, and anthropologist Natacha Nsabimana.  This episode was recorded at e-flux Screening Room before a screening of Merkato, curated by Natacha Nsabimana. Sosena Solomon's Merkato is a documentary tracing the lives of four people as they navigate the demands of life and work in one of the biggest markets in Africa in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Filmed on location in Merkato, before a radical architectural transformation, Solomon's documentary invites us to ask expansive questions about space, architecture, transition, and preservation. Sosena Solomon is an Ethiopian-American social documentary film and multimedia visual artist whose work explores cross-sections of various subcultures and communities in flux, carefully teasing out cultural nuances and capturing personal narratives through arresting visual storytelling. Solomon has worked for many years in the commercial and nonprofit sectors as a director and cinematographer on many short film projects, including Dreaming of Jerusalem, a Discovery-plus original documentary about the Ethiopian-Jewish community in Gondar, and Merkato. She has exhibited work at the Sundance Film Festival, Cinema Africa, Tribeca, and DOC NYC. She earned her BA in Television Production from Temple University and her MFA in Social Documentary film from the School of Visual Arts. Solomon is currently lecturing in the Fine Arts Department at the University of Pennsylvania's Stuart Weitzman School of Design, and working with the Metropolitan Museum of Art to create new digital and in-gallery content that will reframe the Museum's African art galleries. Mpho Matsipa is an educator, researcher, and independent curator.  Matsipa holds a PhD in Architecture from the University of California, Berkeley, pursued as a Fulbright Scholar. She has curated several exhibitions, discursive platforms, and experimental architectural research including the Venice International Architecture Biennale (2008; 2021); African Mobilities at the Architecture Museum, Pinakothek der Moderne in Munich (2018); and Studio-X Johannesburg, in South Africa (2014–16). Her curatorial and research interests are at the intersection of urban studies, experimental architecture, and visual art. Mpho is an associate curator for the Lubumbashi Biennale, in the Democratic Republic of Congo (2024) and she teaches History and Theory at SCI-Arc. Natacha Nsabimana teaches in the anthropology department at the university of Chicago. Her research and teaching interests include postcolonial critique, musical movements, and the cultural and political worlds of African peoples on the continent and in the diaspora. The African Film Institute aims to create a home and a place of intimacy with African cinema in New York, through developing gradually and organically a viewing program animated by fellowships; a growing library; an active writers' room; and an expanding catalog of recorded dialogs. The African Film Institute draws from the visual cultures that view cinema as an evening school: a popular information system in the service of education, aesthetic experience, and public dissemination—employing a methodology concerning the use of cinema's collective production, and investing in viewing methods informed by different uses of time, visual and textual histories, and social struggles and hopes in mutuality between their own locality and the world at large. The African Film Institute is convened by Christian Nyampeta and hosted by e-flux Screening Room.

Heute im Kultur-Update bei Kathrin Hasselbeck: "Walk the Line" in der Münchner Pinakothek der Moderne / Wie Passauer KünstlerInnen unter dem Hochwasser leiden - ein Gespräch mit Hubert Huber vom Berufsverband Bildender Künstler Niederbayern / Und: Claudia Roth und die KZ-Gedenkstätten vertragen sich wieder.

Normalerweise hat die Pinakothek der Moderne nachts geschlossen - aber am kommenden Samstag öffnet sie ihre Türen für Sie: Dann spielt das Münchner Kammerorchester ein Konzert seiner Reihe "Nachtmusik der Moderne". Auf dem Programm steht Musik von Hanns Eisler unter der Leitung von Niederländer Bas Wiechers. Gino Thanner hat mit Bas Wiechers über die Probenarbeiten und Hans Eisler gesprochen.

"Das dritte Königsreich" - so liest sich der neue Roman von Karl Ove Knausgard. Von Tobias Wenzel. Die polnische Konzeptkünstlerin Ewa Parum erhält in Regensburg den Lovis-Corinth-Preis der Ostdeutschen Galerie. Von Sebastian Wintermeier. Tagung in München: Wie social media das Kaufverhalten junger Literaturfans ändert. Von Dennis Reinhart. Sowie: "Kunst Raub Rückgabe" - eine Veranstaltung der Münchner Pinakothek der Moderne und eine gleichnamige Sendereihe der ARD-Mediathek. Von Moritz Holfelder.

Wir beginnen unseren ersten Teil über aktuelle Ereignisse mit einer Diskussion über die Proteste an US-amerikanischen Universitäten gegen den Krieg in Gaza. Dann sprechen wir über einen neuen Trend unter Osteuropäern, die verstärkt Immobilien in Spanien kaufen. Anschließend diskutieren wir über ein Gesetz zum Schutz persönlicher neuronaler Daten, das in Colorado erlassen wurde. Und zum Schluss sprechen wir über den Hiscox Artist Top 100 Report, in dem die meistverkauften zeitgenössischen Künstler des Jahres 2023 aufgeführt sind. Und hier sind unsere Themen für den Programmteil „Trending in Germany“. Wir werden heute darüber sprechen, wie Stefan Schwartze, der Patientenbeauftragte der deutschen Regierung, private Zuzahlungen von Patienten für bestimmte Leistungen an Ärzte verbieten will. Dieser Schritt hat für viel Verwirrung gesorgt. Wir sprechen außerdem über einen Mitarbeiter der Pinakothek der Moderne in München, der sein eigenes Gemälde in die Ausstellung geschmuggelt hat und daraufhin entlassen wurde. Aber dieser Vorfall scheint nicht der einzige dieser Art in letzter Zeit gewesen zu sein. Festnahmen an US-amerikanischen Universitäten wegen anhaltender Proteste gegen den Krieg in Gaza Sorge vor russischer Aggression: Osteuropäer kaufen Immobilien in Spanien Colorado erlässt als erster US-Bundesstaat ein Gesetz zum Schutz persönlicher neuronaler Daten Die meistverkauften zeitgenössischen Künstler des Jahres 2023 Sollten ärztliche Selbstzahlerleistungen verboten werden? Unbekanntes Bild in Pinakothek aufgetaucht

Wir beginnen unseren ersten Teil über aktuelle Ereignisse mit einer Diskussion über die Proteste an US-amerikanischen Universitäten gegen den Krieg in Gaza. Dann sprechen wir über einen neuen Trend unter Osteuropäern, die verstärkt Immobilien in Spanien kaufen. Anschließend diskutieren wir über ein Gesetz zum Schutz persönlicher neuronaler Daten, das in Colorado erlassen wurde. Und zum Schluss sprechen wir über den Hiscox Artist Top 100 Report, in dem die meistverkauften zeitgenössischen Künstler des Jahres 2023 aufgeführt sind. Und hier sind unsere Themen für den Programmteil „Trending in Germany“. Wir werden heute darüber sprechen, wie Stefan Schwartze, der Patientenbeauftragte der deutschen Regierung, private Zuzahlungen von Patienten für bestimmte Leistungen an Ärzte verbieten will. Dieser Schritt hat für viel Verwirrung gesorgt. Wir sprechen außerdem über einen Mitarbeiter der Pinakothek der Moderne in München, der sein eigenes Gemälde in die Ausstellung geschmuggelt hat und daraufhin entlassen wurde. Aber dieser Vorfall scheint nicht der einzige dieser Art in letzter Zeit gewesen zu sein. Festnahmen an US-amerikanischen Universitäten wegen anhaltender Proteste gegen den Krieg in Gaza Sorge vor russischer Aggression: Osteuropäer kaufen Immobilien in Spanien Colorado erlässt als erster US-Bundesstaat ein Gesetz zum Schutz persönlicher neuronaler Daten Die meistverkauften zeitgenössischen Künstler des Jahres 2023 Sollten ärztliche Selbstzahlerleistungen verboten werden? Unbekanntes Bild in Pinakothek aufgetaucht

Bamberg, Julia www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Studio 9

Kraftwerk für die Kunst. Das Bergson Kunstkraftwerk eröffnet heute.// "Back To Black": Warum das Biopic über Amy Winehouse zu kurz greift.// "Indigenous Literacy Foundation": Der Astrid Lindgren Kinderbuchpreis geht in diesem Jahr eine australische Stiftung.

Leister, Judithwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Kultur heute

Leister, Judithwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Kultur heute

Die Theatermacher Lothar Kittstein und Christoph Frick zeigen heute Abend an den Münchner Kammerspielen ihr neues Stück "Land. Drei Zeitbilder aus Bayern" über Landwirtschaft in Zeiten des Klimawandels. Ein Gespräch mit Lothar Kittstein / "Flatz. Something Wrong with Physical Sculpture" - Retrospektive des 71-jährigen Aktionskünstlers Wolfgang Flatz in der Münchner Pinakothek der Moderne, der in einer Versteigerung seine Haut zu Markte tragen wollte / "Travelling back" - Eine Schau im Münchner Zentralinstitut für Kunstgeschichte unternimmt einen Blickwechsel auf die Brasilien-Expedition zweier bayerischer Wissenschaftler im 19. Jahrhundert

Theaterfestival "Les Practicables" in Bamako // Der Historiker Philipp Lenhard über Antisemitismus an deutschen und amerikanischen Unis // "Design inklusiv erleben" in der Pinakothek der Moderne München // 100 Jahre Disney und keine Partystimmung // Musik: Trevor Horn: "Echoes - Ancient & Modern"

Krone, Tobiaswww.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Fazit

"Glitch: Die Kunst der Störung" in der Pinakothek der Moderne // Buch: "Der doppelte Erich. Kästner im 3. Reich" von Tobias Lehmkuhl // Dokumentarfilm: "Holy Shit. Entscheidend ist, was hinten rauskommt" // Musik: G.Rag & Los Hermanos Patchekos: "Esperanza"

Krone, Tobiaswww.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Fazit

Hörmann, Andreaswww.deutschlandfunk.de, Corso

Every "Now and then" erscheint, obwohl nur noch zwei der Fab Four leben, ein neuer Song von den Beatles. Jetzt haben Paul McCartney und Ringo Starr zusammen mit einer KI sowie alten Aufnahmen George Harrisons den Song "Now and then" von John Lennon herausgebracht / "Genie oder Monster": Ein Essay der Amerikanerin Claire Dederer über die Schwierigkeit, Künstler und Werk zu trennen / "Unwanted" - Oliver Hirschbiegels Serie über eine Kreuzfahrt, die nach einer Seenotrettung von Flüchtlingen eine unerwartete Wendung nimmt / "From My Heart": Kiki Smith in der Münchner Pinakothek der Moderne

What you'll learn in this episode:   How Arnoldsche collaborates with authors to create an effective design for each book What young artists should know before trying to publish a book How Dirk keeps tabs on trends and new developments in jewelry and decorative arts How Arnoldsche selects the right markets and languages for its books Why the art book market has changed dramatically over the last 10 years, and how Arnoldsche has adapted   About Dirk Allgaier: Since April 2015, Dirk Allgaier has headed Arnoldsche Art Publishers, an internationally active publisher of art books that offers a unique list of titles in the fields of fine art, applied art and design. With great expertise, sheer hard work and a passion for his profession, he and his team ensure that books from Arnoldsche become what they are: high-quality, individually designed publications and book objects that transport the broad range of creative endeavor in all its diversity across the globe.   Additional Resources: Arnoldsche Art Publishing's Website Arnoldsche Art Publisher's Instgram Arnoldsche Art Publisher's X/Twitter   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com   Transcript:    No other publishing house in the world has published as many books on jewelry, ceramics and other applied arts as Arnoldsche Art Publishing. Led by Dirk Allgaier, Arnoldsche is the go-to source for anyone who wants to learn more about the decorative and applied arts, the people who create them, and the museums that exhibit them. Dirk joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how he selects the 10 to 15 books Arnoldsche publishes each year; how he works with artists to create a beautiful and informative book; and why a language barrier doesn't always prevent someone from reading an art book. Read the episode transcript here.  Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com.    My guest is Dirk Allgaier of Arnoldsche Publishing. They're art publishers, and if you have any kind of design library—and that includes jewelry, ceramics, monographs on artists, furniture and more—you no doubt have books that have been published by Arnoldsche. Welcome back.    Do you have people come that you haven't heard of, but they have great expertise? Maybe they're a professor or somebody else that has a lot of expertise in their area?   Dirk: I know our field quite well; it's a small field, but it happens that people approach me and send me a suggestion for a new book project and I don't know the artist. There's always something new to discover. I say every book we are doing, not only in jewelry but also in ceramics or in wooden art, in metalware, in furniture, in textile, in glass, it opens a new window. It gives me a new prospectus to see new things which I did not know before. This is a reason why I like my job. I love my job very much.    It happened last year at the Art Jewelry Forum. Susan Cummins suggested to me to publish a book about Keith Lewis, the American jewelry artist. I really did not know his work. I read the manuscript in the evening when I was home. I was reading; I looked at the images. I was thinking, “That's fantastic, what he did. It was the 1980s. He was so progressive. He was so political in that time, so important. Today what is he doing?” That was totally new, and now we are publishing his book. It's designed. We are now doing the images. In about four weeks, we go to press for that book. So, it happens on the jewelry scene that artists are suggested to me, are recommended, which I do not know. But most artists, of course, I know more or less their work.   Sharon: Susan Cummins had brought you several books before this Keith Lewis one. Does that reflect? Did you take that into account when you were deciding?   Dirk: We met each other and decided to cooperate, to collaborate, because she has fantastic topics in jewelry. It's very political, the book about Laurie Hall. It's about Northwest American jewelry. We say in Germany it's narrative jewelry. This kind of jewelry was not so well-known in Europe.    We have a very strong distribution. We sell our books worldwide, so we bring this topic through the book to an international audience, to the international market. It's important for this American artist to be represented through the book internationally, so it's a win/win situation. Susan has wonderful topics for publications. We produce the books and distribute them internationally. It's a very good joint venture.   Sharon: You distribute them. I haven't seen them in the States, I don't think, except the Art Jewelry Forum books. I'm seeing those, but that's it.   Dirk: We have a distributor in the United States. It's ACC Art Books. Every book is stored in the United States in a warehouse, and we have representatives in the United States. You can go to a bookshop and order our books, but the books are such special books that they are only in special bookstores, mainly in museum bookstores, like the Metropolitan Museum or the Museum of Modern Art in New York.    The bigger bookstores and art bookstores have our books, but everything changed in the last 10, 15, 20 years. There are not so many bookshops left, so mainly art books are available online. This is an online trade. If you did a book about Sam Kramer, if you Google Kramer, you find immediately that you have to buy our book either on Amazon or on Book DE or on Instagram. You can order the book online. It's really a change to selling books. 60% to 70% of books we are selling now online, not through bookstores.   Sharon: Does somebody come to the website and see a book they want?   Dirk: We have a web shop. You can order the book from our web shop. That's also possible. Wherever you are living, you can order it. For example, when you are living in the United States, you can order it from the web shop, and our American partner or American distributor will send you the book within a short timeframe. Within three or four days, you will have the book.   Sharon: Now, some of your books are only in German.   Dirk: Yes.   Sharon: Since I don't speak a word of German, what do you do? Do you have some in English and some in German and some half and half?    Dirk: It depends on the topic. We publish in many languages, but the main language is English. That's definitive. English is very important, but there's also German if it doesn't have a major audience. Then it's also a question of money or financing. There are translation codes, which are very extensive. You have to make an extra typesetting. You need more pages. You need more printing. Then we say, “O.K., we leave it only in German. We know we would not sell many copies in the English-speaking market, so we leave it in German.” But mainly the books are in English.  A few are only in German, but if the artist comes from another country, we also publish books, for example, in the French language, in Italian, in the Norwegian language, also in Estonian, in Catalan. We have two books in the Hebrew language, in Arabic and even in the Japanese language. It depends where the artist is living and in which country the topic is, and then we publish in different languages.   Sharon: Wow! The jewelry you mentioned, and in looking at your books, it's so contemporary. Is that what you look for? It's really unusual.   Dirk: Yeah, because for us, jewelry is art. There is no difference. It's studio jewelry. It's art jewelry. It's like an art book. We have to publish jewelry books like an art book, and that's very important. The style of the jewelry, its artistic value, is represented in the book, so the quality must be very high. You must see the high value of jewelry. You must see it in the book. That's why it's important for us.    Sharon: That's interesting. So, you wouldn't publish a book on “normal” jewelry.   Dirk: We do books about higher-range costume jewelry because they're fantastic topics. In the 1920s in Germany, in the Art Deco period, there were companies who did articles of fantastic jewelry. Next year, we are planning a book about the New York jewelry designer Marcus & Co. So, we have books about art and costume jewelry, but not about the regular jewelry you can buy in a regular shop. This is not our interest.   Sharon: Have you ever started a book and then said, “Forget it. This is too complicated,” or “There's not a market”?   Dirk: No, normally we don't. If I start something, I bring it to an end. That's very important for me, even if it's very, very difficult. Usually, once we start on a book, we finish it. That's very important. I remember a book we did 20 years ago. It was about an Italian topic, and everybody told me at the time, “You would never publish that book. You would never finalize it,” but we did it. That made me very proud; that we did this book finally. Every book we've started, we finished the book.    For me, it's important to publish a book together with an artist or with a partner—the person is a partner for me—with a lot of mutual respect and to achieve a result which satisfies everybody: the publishing house, the artist, the museum. If we work together for three, four, five months, it's like a partnership. You work very intensively together with an artist, and the results just have to be right. That's very important. You put the book together; you celebrate; you're happy. That's how it should be, and that's how it is, usually.   Sharon: Do you go to book trade shows where they have new books? I don't know if they still have them. They used to have book trade shows.   Dirk: They had it some years ago, but there's no big importance anymore. There are book fairs in Frankfurt, so we go to Frankfurt. 20 years ago, we went to the Chicago Book Fair, to the American Book Fair, to London, but we don't do that so much. We have our books at the Schmuck in Munich, of course. You can buy them at the Schmuck Fair, or if there are special ceramic fairs, special jewelry events. We also have bookshops that go there. They have their stands there, and there are books at these events.   Sharon: I was looking online at your books. I noticed there were books about Babetto and I was surprised. None of it looked at the jewelry; they looked at the furniture and the drawings and things like that. What made you decide to do a second book on Babetto?   Dirk: The first book—I think it was the year 2009, 2010. Pinakothek der Moderne is a big museum, and every year during Schmuck, they have a big exhibition on the roof of the rotunda. Every year they show a different artist. They showed Thomas Gentille, for example, Anton Frühauf, Hermann Jünger, Peter Skubic. 15 years ago, they showed Giampaolo Babetto. We did a small but very special book on Giampaolo Babetto on the occasion of the exhibition. That was 2008, 2009.    Last year, Giampaolo asked, “Can you come to Italy? Can we meet? I'm planning a new book.” He planned a complete oeuvre catalogue of all his work in jewelry, in metalware, in architectural design, in religious pieces. So, we did an oeuvre catalogue. All his work from the beginning until 2022 is published in the book. Those are two different approaches. One was very personal for the exhibition, and this last was the catalogue about his work. It's a total Babetto.    Sharon: That's interesting. There didn't seem to be that much jewelry in the Babetto books. It was more his other designs, his other things.   Dirk: One half of the book is jewelry. The other half is his metalworks, his furniture designs and the other things.   Sharon: For those who don't know what Schmuck is, do you want to describe it?   Dirk: It's an annual event in Munich on the occasion of the International Art and Crafts Fair. It's an international trade fair for crafts and design. In 1959, it was founded by Herbert Hoffmann. It was a competition where contemporary jewelry was presented in a small part of the fair. That was the beginning over 60 years ago. It was a very small event, but every year it became bigger.    Now it's still the Herbert Hoffmann Award, the Herbert Hoffmann Exhibition, but throughout the whole city, there are about 50, 60 galleries showing jewelry in contemporary galleries. They rent a space, they show jewelry, and they come from all over the world. It's a huge event which lasts five days. You can see a lot of jewelry. You have gallery exhibitions. You have some museums that show jewelry. The Mesa is a big exhibition. The whole world of contemporary art jewelry, of studio jewelry, is in Munich.   Sharon: I've only been a couple of times, but I didn't know Herbert Hoffmann was so integral in it. I know they have a prize.   Dirk: Yeah, the award. You can go online. You can look up the Herbert Hoffmann Award and see the prize winners from 1959. You read these names, and it's really the top of the top of international jewelry artists. It's very interesting to read the award winners of the Herbert Hoffmann Prize.    Sharon: Wow! I didn't know it was so old, either. These people, the authors who want to write a book or a museum, do they have the person in mind who's going to put the book together? Do they have the illustrator? Do they have the photographer in mind, or do they let you decide?   Dirk: It's important if you write a book to have photographs available. Every artist has an archive of photographs, and every artist's archive is different. Some have a very accurate archive with good photographs, and they know exactly what goes into the books. Some other artists have only images or older slides. Here we can be of help. We can make sense of old photographs. Usually, an artist has photographs for the book and they know which pieces should go into the book, but often I sit together with artists and we go through the materials, through the pieces. For an artist, it's often difficult to make a decision, to take this piece or that piece. Then we sit together and say, “It's that piece and not that.”    Photography is very important. An artist can have a designer, or we have the designer and we do image editing for the images. We do printing, and then we include the book in our book program, into our publishing list. Then we send the book worldwide on our list. This is the way.    Sharon: What country are most of your sales in? I don't know if it's Germany or Switzerland or Austria.    Dirk: We are selling one-third of our books in German-speaking countries, in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. They still have a strong market for art books and for jewelry books. Two-thirds we sell outside the German-speaking countries. England is a very important market. Scandinavia buys our books, and, of course, the American market is important for us. We sell books in China. We have one representative and he's Chinese. There are big distributors in China, so we are sending books to the distributors, and they are selling the books to the individual bookstores and individual customers in the country. Japan is very difficult to sell books. South Korea is an important market for us. We sell some books in Australia as well, but I can say Germany, England, America and China. These are very important markets for us.   Sharon: If somebody doesn't speak the language—I'm thinking of myself—do you just look at the pictures? What do you do?   Dirk: There's a society of booksellers here in Germany. They made a test with people. They asked a thousand people, “What are you doing when you buy a book with images such as an art book? What are you doing with the book? Do you read it? Do you look at images?” They found out that only 10% of the book buyers are reading a book. 90% are looking at the images and reading here and there a little bit, but almost nobody is reading a book from the beginning to the end.   Sharon: I don't feel so bad because I look at the pictures. What languages have you thought about? Have you thought about French? Are there other languages you've thought about putting your books in?   Dirk: I think English and German are the most important. In France, it's difficult to sell books because the market is very small. When we have a French artist, of course we publish the book in French, but if the artist is not French, we don't publish a book in the French language. It's a small market. The book trade market is quite difficult, so the artist should be French-speaking, and then you publish it in French.    I would like to publish a book in the Chinese language, in Mandarin, because we didn't do this yet. We have a book about New Zealand artists coming in two years, and it would be wonderful to have at least one essay in Māori, in the native language of New Zealand. That would really be a task for me to do, but it would appreciate the First Nations people of the country.    Sharon: Any other plans besides other languages? What are your plans besides the books in production? What else would you like to do?   Dirk: Generally, for me it's important that every half-year we have a catalogue. All our new books are featured in a catalogue which we send out every half-year. So, for me, the most important challenge is to have a good program to find newer catalogues which I present to people every half-year. This is the most important.    And to find a place for our special books, because it's not easy to find places. It's a niche program to find readers, to find people who buy the books and to find new people who did not know anything about artistic jewelry or studio jewelry. So, to find new people to bring a fascination for art into the world and to find new friends, new people who really love our work. That's the most important thing for me.   Sharon: I hope that you do. Thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate it.   Dirk: Thank you very much, Sharon. Thank you.   Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out.   Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.

Drei Monate ist es her, dass Kulturstaatsministerin Claudia Roth den Kulturpass eingeführt hat. Wie wird er von den 18-jährigen in Bayern angenommen und wofür wird das Guthaben von 200 Euro genutzt? / Auf vermintem Gelände: In Mostar soll ein Militärmuseum errichtet werden / "Objekt-Speed-Dating": Eine Aktion der Neuen Sammlung der Münchner Pinakothek der Moderne / "Iconic": Ein Mode-Podcast des BR. Gespräch mit dessen Host, Aminata Belli

"Malelade": Georg Baselitz in der Pinakothek der Moderne München // Pornopositiv: Gespräch mit der feministischen Porno-Entrepreneurin Paulita Pappel // Kino: "Passages" von Ira Sachs // "Schönwald": Romandebüt von Philipp Oehmke // Musik: slowdive - "everything is alive"

Die Ausstellung Textile Welten in der Pinakothek der Moderne in München. / American dreams: zwei Filme, zwei Ideologien - Barbie und Oppenheimer. / Auftakt in Bregenz: Verdis Ernani im Festspielhaus.

"Das Kranke(n)haus" nennt die Münchner Pinakothek der Moderne eine neue Ausstellung, die sich speziell mit der patientengemäßen baulichen Gestaltung von Krankenhäusern befasst. Denn: Architektur hilft heilen, davon ist die Münchner Architekturpsychologin Prof. Dr. Tanja Vollmer überzeugt / "Rodeo" - Ein französisches Spielfilm-Debüt entführt uns in die "Dirt Bike"-Szene und erzählt von einer Frau in Motorradkluft, die sich in einer Männerwelt behauptet / Kulinarik: Über eine litauische Nationalspeise aus Anlass des NATO-Gipfels in Vilnius / An Saxophon und Klarinette: Zum Tod des ostdeutschen Jazzers Ernst-Ludwig "Luten" Petrowsky

"Ich fühle mich wie im freien Fall", sagt die russische Exil-Lyrikerin Marija Stepanowa angesichts der politischen Lage in ihrer Heimat. Kürzlich bekam sie in Leipzig den Buchpreis für Europäische Verständigung, heute kommt sie für eine Lesung ins Münchner Lyrik-Kabinett / Bürgerkrieg auf der Bühne statt Ägypten-Kitsch: Die Premiere von Aida an der Bayerischen Staatsoper München / Schmäh in Gefahr? Ein Gespräch mit dem österreichischen Kabarettisten Alfred Dorfer über Dialekte. Anlass: Das Buch "Wienerisch" ist gerade im Berliner Duden-Verlag erschienen /"Ungekämmte Bilder": Die Münchner Pinakothek der Moderne zeigt Kunst aus der Sammlung Herzog Franz von Bayern

Ben Luke talks to Alfredo Jaar about his influences—from writers to film-makers, musicians and, of course, other artists—and the cultural experiences that have shaped his life and work. Jaar, who was born in 1956, in Santiago, Chile and has been based in New York since the early 1980s, addresses social injustice, human suffering, state-sponsored violence, and imbalances in power between the global north and south. He also explores how these issues are framed in the international media. He has responded to some of the most troubling moments in recent human history, from the military coup in his native Chile in 1973 and its aftermath, to the Rwandan genocide in the 1990s, to wars and covert operations waged by Western powers over multiple decades, and the relentless displacement of refugees across the world. He has done so through uncompromising, searing, yet often deeply moving installations in multiple media. Among much else, he discusses the profound influence of John Cage, Hans Haacke and Marcel Duchamp, his fascination with Pier Paolo Pasolini, a transformative experience watching Simone Forti, and the poetry of Ben Okri. Plus, he gives insight into his studio life, and answers our usual questions, including the ultimate: “What is art for?”Alfredo Jaar: If It Concerns Us, It Concerns You, Goodman Gallery, London 18 April-24 May; Alfredo Jaar: 50 Years Later, Cecilia Brunson Projects, London, 19 April – 19 May 2023. One Million German Passports, Pinakothek del Moderne, Munich, 29 March-27 August; Alfredo exhibition for the 11th Hiroshima Art Prize at the Hiroshima City Museum of Contemporary Art, Japan, 22 July-15 October, and an exhibition at the Museo Nacional de Bellas Artes in Santiago, Chile, opens on 14 September. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Beinahe zwei Jahre hat es gedauert, aber jetzt ist es geschehen: „Ausgesprochen Kunst“ hat sich erstmals über die Grenzen Österreichs hinausgewagt! Genauer gesagt nach München, um dort die Ausstellung „Max Beckmann. Departure“ zu besuchen, die noch bis 12.03.2023 in der Pinakothek der Moderne läuft. Der Fokus der Schau liegt auf den Themen Reise und Migration und sie beleuchtet die verschiedenen Stationen des bewegten Lebens des Künstlers. Als große Beckmann-Fans konnten Alexander und Herbert Giese diese Gelegenheit natürlich nicht verstreichen lassen – erfahren Sie in dieser Folge, ob sich die Reise gelohnt hat. Wir freuen uns über Vorschläge zu weiteren Ausstellungen im näheren Ausland! Kontakt: redaktion@gieseundschweiger.at; Website: https://www.gieseundschweiger.at/de/; Redaktion: Lara Bandion, Fabienne Pohl; Musik: Matthias Jakisic; Sprecherin: Sarah Scherer; Grafische Gestaltung: Studio Riebenbauer Zur Ausstellung: https://www.pinakothek-der-moderne.de/ausstellungen/max-beckmann-departure/

In this episode of PhotoWork with Sasha Wolf, Sasha and photographer, Shirin Neshat discuss her latest multimedia project, Land of Dreams which combines photographs, video installation, and a feature length film. Shirin and Sasha talk about what brought Shirin back to making art after an 11 year hiatus and how Shirin thinks about her identity as an Iranian artist. https://www.gladstonegallery.com/artist/shirin-neshat/ https://www.instagram.com/shirin__neshat https://www.radiusbooks.org/all-books/p/shirin-neshat-land-of-dreams Shirin Neshat is an Iranian-born artist and filmmaker living in New York. Neshat has held numerous solo exhibitions at museums internationally including the Pinakothek der Moderne, Munich; Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth; The Broad, Los Angeles; Museo Correr, Venice, Italy, Hirshhorn Museum, and the Detroit Institute of Arts. Neshat has directed three feature-length films, Women Without Men (2009), which received the Silver Lion Award for Best Director at the 66th Venice International Film Festival, Looking For Oum Kulthum (2017), and most recently Land of Dreams, which premiered at the Venice Film Festival (2021). Neshat was awarded the Golden Lion Award, the First International Prize at the 48th Biennale di Venezia (1999), and the Praemium Imperiale award for Painting in (2017). She is represented by Gladstone Gallery in New York and Goodman Gallery in London.

"Meister des Deutschen Schamhaars" wurde Adolf Ziegler von zahllosen Spöttern im Dritten Riech genannt, denn er war bekannt für seine großformatigen, in akademisch-realistischer Manier gemalten Aktbilder. Adolf Hitler imponierten diese jedoch so sehr, dass er ihn schlussendlich sogar zum Präsidenten der Reichskammer der bildenden Künste machte. In dieser Funktion rief Ziegler auch die Ausstellung "Entartete Kunst" ins Leben, die sämtliche, nicht NSDAP-linienkonforme Kunst an den Pranger stellte. Bis heute hängt eines von Zieglers Bildern in der Münchner Pinakothek. Seine Geschichte erzählen wir in der heutigen Podcast-Folge.

What you'll learn in this episode: Why sacred geometry is the underlying link between Eva's work in jewelry, architecture and design How growing up in an isolated Soviet Bloc country influenced Eva's creative expression Why jewelry is one of the most communicative art forms How Eva evaluates jewelry as a frequent jewelry show judge Why good design should help people discover new ideas and apply them in other places  About Eva Eisler A star of the Prague art world, Eva Eisler is an internationally recognized sculptor, furniture/product designer, and jeweler. Rooted in constructivist theory, her structurally-based objects project a unique spirituality by nature of their investment with “sacred geometry.” The current series of necklaces and brooches, fabricated from stainless steel, are exemplars of this aesthetic. In 2003, she developed a line of sleek, stainless steel tabletop objects for mono cimetric design in Germany.  Eisler is also a respected curator and educator. She is chairman of the Metal and Jewelry Department at the Academy of Arts, Architecture and Design in Prague, where she heads the award-winning K.O.V. (concept-object-meaning) studio. Her work is in the collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Brooklyn Museum and Cooper-Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum in New York; Museum of Fine Arts, Boston; Museum of Fine Arts, Houston; Renwick Gallery, Smithsonian American Art Museum, Washington, D.C.; Montreal Museum of Fine Arts in Canada; Pinakothek der Moderne, Munich; and Museum of Decorative Arts, Prague, among others.  Additional Resources: Eva's Instagram Photos available on TheJeweleryJourney.com Transcript: Eva Eisler is the rare designer who works on projects as small as a ring and as large as a building. What connects her impressive portfolio of work? An interest in sacred geometry and a desire to discover new ideas that can be applied in multiple ways. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she communicates a message through jewelry; why jewelry students should avoid learning traditional techniques too early; and her thoughts on good design. Read the episode transcript here.  Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. My guest today is Eva Eisler, Head of the Jewelry Department of the Academy of Arts in Prague. She's probably one of the most well-known artists in the Czech Republic. Welcome back.    How long were you in New York? A long time?   Eva: 25 years.    Sharon: Wow! I didn't realize that. And did you teach the whole time?   Eva: I taught for a few years at Parsons School of Design, and then New York University pulled me in. It was Judith Schwartz, who was the Director of the Department of Art Education, who wanted to expose the students to metalworking. So, she asked me to come and teach there.   Sharon: Did you do jewelry and other things because you wanted to have not so much grayness in the world, to have color, to have joy?   Eva: Are you asking?   Sharon: Yeah, I'm asking. Did you break out, in a sense, because of the world around you?   Eva: I think that one challenge after the other gave me strength and conviction. This is something I can work with, the medium of jewelry, because it's so communicative. I had so many incredible encounters through wearing a piece of jewelry. For example, I went to a party at Princeton University. I'm talking to this professor of physics. He's telling me how they are developing an artificial sun, and he's looking at my piece. When he finished talking about his project, he said, “Is this what I think it is?” I said, “Clearly, yes.” It was a piece of metal bent into an S, one line and one dot. It's basically telling you that it depends on a point of view and how you perceive things. I used to like to come up with a concept that I would play with in different theories.    Sharon: Did you expect to be in the States for 25 years? That's a long time.   Eva: No. We were allowed by Czechoslovakia to go for one year. After one year, we politely applied for an extension. It was denied to us. So, we were actually abroad illegally and we could not return because we did not obey the rules.    Sharon: When you came back, did you teach? We saw some of your students' work. What do you tell them about your work? What do you teach them?    Eva: It's a different system. In New York, you teach one class at a time if you're not a full-time professor at the university. In New York, it's very rare. The intensity and the high quality of professionals in all different fields allows schools to pull them in, so they can take a little bit of their time and share with students what they do. It's not that you devote your full time to teaching.    In the Czech Republic, it's different. At the academy where I have taught for 16 years, you're the professor, and you have a student for six years with a special degree in the master's program. For six years, you're developing the minds of these young people. I don't teach them techniques. We have a workshop and there is a workshop master. I talk to them about their ideas. We consult twice a week for six years. It's a long time. I would be happy if somebody talked about my work for half an hour once a year. I would have to ask somebody because I need it as well. It's a different system, the European system of schools.   Sharon: You're head of the K.O.V. Studio. How would you translate that?   Eva: The academy is divided into departments, and each department is a different media: Department of Architecture, Department of Industrial Design and so on. We are part of the Department of Applied Arts, which is divided between ceramics, glass, textile, fashion. My studio is about metal, and for metal in Czech, you write “kov.” When I took over the studio, I put dots in between the letters, which stands for “concept, object, meaning.” In Czech, meaning isn't even a word. That way, I could escape the strict specialization for metal, because when you're 20 and you go study somewhere, do you know you want to work for the rest of your life in metal? No. Today, we are also exploring different materials, discovering new materials. I am giving them assignments and tasks. Each of them has to choose the right material, so the person comes up with using concrete or cork or wood or paper or different things, glass or metal.   Sharon: How do you balance everything? You have so much going on. How do you balance it?    Eva: I have to do three jobs because teaching does not make a living, even though I'm a full-time professor. It's an underpaid profession, maybe everywhere.   Sharon: I was going to say that, everywhere.   Eva: Then I do my own art, and I do large projects like designing exhibitions, curating exhibitions, designing a design shop. Things like that to make money to support those other two. It's a lot, yes. I have grandchildren.   Sharon: A family. Yes, it's a lot. You've done jewelry shows and you've evaluated shows. What's important to you? What stands out? What jumps out at you?   Eva: I sit on juries. In 2015, I was invited to be a curator of Schmuck, the jewelry exhibition in Munich. It's a big challenge, selecting out of 600 applicants for a show that at the end has only 60 people from all over the world. When I looked at the work, we flipped through pictures one after the other. It's so incredible what jewelry has evolved into, this completely open, free thing, many different styles, many different trends and materials. There's organic and geometric and plastic. I noticed these different groups and that I could divide all these people into different groups, different styles, different materials. Then I was selecting the best representation of these groups. It made it quite clear and fast when I came up with this approach.   Sharon: Does something jump out at you, though, when you're looking through all these—let's say you've divided all the glass, all the metal—   Eva: Very rarely, because we go to Munich every year. I go and see exhibitions all over, so it's very random. You can see something completely different and new. I worked on a very interesting exhibition that year at the Prague Castle. Cartier does not have a building for their collection, a museum. They have the collection traveling around in palaces and castles and exhibition galleries around the world, and each place has a different curator. I was invited to curate it in Prague. It was the largest Cartier exhibition ever displayed. It was around 60 pieces for this show, and it was in Bridging Hall of the Prague Castle, an enormous space.    That was very interesting because at the moment I accepted this challenging job, I had never walked into a Cartier anywhere in the world, in New York, Paris, London, because I was never curious. It was real jewelry, but when I started working with the collection, which is based in Geneva, and I was going to Paris to these workshops and archives, I discovered the completely different world of making jewelry, how they, in the middle of the 19th century, approached this medium and based it on perfection and mechanisms and the material. So, the best of the best craftsmen were put together in one place. It was very challenging.   Another exhibit I worked on was for a craft museum. It was called The Radiant Geometries. Russell Newman was the curator, and I was doing the display faces. My work was part of the show as well. That was a super experience.    An interesting show I had was at Columbia University at the School of Architecture. The dean was Bernard Tschumi, the deconstructivist architect. He invited me to do an exhibition of jewelry and drawings for their students of architecture. Can you imagine? The students looked at the work, and they thought they were small architecture models. I developed a new system for how to hold them together. For that exhibition, I built cabinets that I later developed into a system with vitrines. After the exhibition with vitrines, I started making chairs and tables and benches, and later on I used it again for an exhibition when I was in Brussels. One thing leads me to another. One thing inspires the other. I go from flats, from drawings and paintings, into three-dimensional objects. I need a lance, so I design it and then some company makes it.   Sharon: Wow! What do you think has kept your attention? We'll have pictures of the jewelry on the website so people can see it. I love the necklace you have on. It's avant garde. Everything in the exhibit and everything your students did was avant garde. So, what holds your attention about it? How would you describe it?   Eva: I think making something like many people did before you doesn't make any sense. We are surrounded by so much stuff. It only makes it worth spending your talent and time when it's something new. You're discovering something new that somebody else can learn from and apply somewhere else. For example, this necklace is just held by the tension of the spring wire. Next time, maybe I can use it for some lighting. Who knows?   Sharon: I'd like to see that if you do it. What makes a good exhibit? You've been in charge of so many exhibits. What makes a good jewelry exhibit?   Eva: It should be based on a common theme or concept, and all the objects should together tell a story. Also, the exhibition design or architectural design of the show is very important. A lot of exhibition architects are creating something so powerful that you can't see the work that is showing. My rule is that the installation basically should disappear. The work is the most important thing, right?   Sharon: Yes, that's true. You mentioned a story, like each area or part should tell a story. Would you agree with that?   Eva: If it's large exhibition of jewelry in different styles, let's say, it should be grouped into similar topics so it empowers them. If you have one piece of this kind, another piece of a different kind next to each other, then—I don't know; it can be anything. It depends on the curator or the architect. Look at the Danner Rotunda in Munich. Their collection is strung together. Maybe the curator or the artist who did the installation wanted to create a dialogue of completely different characters, like when you have guests for dinner and you're thinking who sits next to whom. You want to create an exciting dialogue.   Sharon: When you came to New York, do you think you stood out? In Czechoslovakia did you stand out? Could you hold your own within these different parties?   Eva: I'm not the one who can judge it, but yes. I heard from different people what caught their attention, and why, for example, Judy Schwartz said, “I was waiting patiently all these years,” whenever she finds the time to teach at NYU. I was always amazed by her education. Toni Greenbaum wrote a beautiful piece when we first met. She was intrigued by what I wore and how I looked, but mostly by a piece of jewelry I wore. I sewed the dress a day before because I thought, “What am I going to wear?” I designed it myself. If somebody asks me what I collect—mostly everybody collects something—I usually say I collect people. People together create society, create culture. One cannot stand alone. Through the work I do, it brings me to people. I try, and the results bring me to better people. That's what I value most.   Sharon: That's interesting. That was going to be my next question, but you answered it. Everybody does collect something, and people have different definitions of collections. Collecting people is a collection, yes, and you collect people all over the world. Thank you so much for being with us today, Eva. I really appreciate it.   Eva: Thank you so much for inviting me and talking to me. I'm saying hello to everyone who is listening.   Sharon: Well will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out.   Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.  

What you'll learn in this episode: Why sacred geometry is the underlying link between Eva's work in jewelry, architecture and design How growing up in an isolated Soviet Bloc country influenced Eva's creative expression Why jewelry is one of the most communicative art forms How Eva evaluates jewelry as a frequent jewelry show judge Why good design should help people discover new ideas and apply them in other places  About Eva Eisler A star of the Prague art world, Eva Eisler is an internationally recognized sculptor, furniture/product designer, and jeweler. Rooted in constructivist theory, her structurally-based objects project a unique spirituality by nature of their investment with “sacred geometry.” The current series of necklaces and brooches, fabricated from stainless steel, are exemplars of this aesthetic. In 2003, she developed a line of sleek, stainless steel tabletop objects for mono cimetric design in Germany.  Eisler is also a respected curator and educator. She is chairman of the Metal and Jewelry Department at the Academy of Arts, Architecture and Design in Prague, where she heads the award-winning K.O.V. (concept-object-meaning) studio. Her work is in the collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Brooklyn Museum and Cooper-Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum in New York; Museum of Fine Arts, Boston; Museum of Fine Arts, Houston; Renwick Gallery, Smithsonian American Art Museum, Washington, D.C.; Montreal Museum of Fine Arts in Canada; Pinakothek der Moderne, Munich; and Museum of Decorative Arts, Prague, among others.  Additional Resources: Eva's Instagram Photos available on TheJeweleryJourney.com Transcript: Eva Eisler is the rare designer who works on projects as small as a ring and as large as a building. What connects her impressive portfolio of work? An interest in sacred geometry and a desire to discover new ideas that can be applied in multiple ways. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she communicates a message through jewelry; why jewelry students should avoid learning traditional techniques too early; and her thoughts on good design. Read the episode transcript here.    Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week.    My guest today is Eva Eisler, s. She's probably one of the most well-known artists in the Czech Republic. Her work is minimal and refined. She also designs clothing, furniture, sculpture and so many other things I can't tell you about. She has taught and studied at Parsons School of Design, and she'll fill us in on everything she's learned. I'm sure I'm leaving something out, but she'll fill us in today. Eva, welcome to the program.   Eva: Thank you for having me.   Sharon: Great to have you. Tell us about your jewelry journey. Did you study it? Were you artistic as a youth?   Eva: I only thought about this yesterday. You're the first person I'm going to tell this story to. During the war, my grandfather, because he was very practical and forward-thinking, was buying jewelry from people who needed money to have safety deposits for later, whatever happened after the war. When I was born in 1952, there was still a little bit left of the treasure he collected and enclosed in a beautiful wooden treasure box. When I was a good girl, I could play with real jewelry in gold and stones.    When I grew older, I never thought of jewelry as something I would design. It was something I could play with as a girl, but when I got older, living in a communist country—Czechoslovakia turned into a Soviet Bloc country after the war—everything was so gray and constrained and monotonous. People were afraid to say whatever they thought, and I was feeling that I had to start something provocative, to start some kind of dialogue about different things. So, I started making jewelry, but because I didn't know any techniques, I did it in the form of ready-mades, looking for different metal parts out of machines, kitchen utensils, a stainless-steel shower hose, a clock spring, sunglasses, all different things. I didn't know people like that existed somewhere else, like Anni Albers, who in the 40s created a beautiful necklace out of paperclips. I learned that much, much later.   I was not only making jewelry. I was also making lamps and small sculptures, because creating things always made me happy. My mother was an art teacher. My father was a scientist. He was one of the founders of robotics in the 50s, and he ended up teaching at the most famous universities around the world later on. That's how I started making jewelry, but I wanted to proceed with a profession in architecture. That was always my main interest. After school, I worked for a few years as an architect. Later on, I got married and had children, and I wanted to be free from a steady job and do what I loved most, create.   Sharon: When you were an architect, were you designing buildings?   Eva: I was part of a team for experience. I was given smaller tasks that I had to do, mostly parts of the interior.   Sharon: Did you do sculpture and jewelry on the side? Your sculpture is such a big part.   Eva: Yeah, we're talking about when I was 25, 26. In 1983, my husband and I and our two children moved to New York, because John was invited by Richard Maier to come and work for him. That was a big challenge that one should not refuse. So, we did the journey, even though it was not easy with two little children.   Sharon: Did you speak English at all, or did you have to learn when you came?   Eva: I did because my father, in the 60s, when it was possible, was on a contract with Manchester University in England teaching. Me and my brothers went there for summer vacations for two years. One year, I was sent to one of his colleagues to spend the summer, and then I married John, who is half-British. His British mother didn't speak Czech, so I had to learn somehow. But it was in Europe when I got really active, because I needed to express my ideas.   Sharon: Does your jewelry reflect Czechoslovakia, the Czech Republic? It's different than jewelry here, I think.   Eva: There were quite a few people who were working in the field of contemporary avant garde jewelry. I can name a few: Anton Setka, Wasoof Siegler. Those were brilliant artists whose work is part of major museums around the world, but I was not focused on this type of work when I still lived in the Czech Republic, Czechoslovakia at that time. It was when I arrived in New York. I thought, “What am I going to do? I have two little children. Should I go and look for a job in some architecture office?” It would be almost impossible if you don't have the means to hire babysitters and all the services. So, I thought, “I have experience with jewelry. I love it, and I always made it as a means of self-expression and a tool for communication. O.K., I am going to try to make jewelry, but from scratch, not as a ready-made piece out of components that I would find somewhere.”    I didn't know any techniques. Somebody gave me old tools after her late husband died. I started trying something, and I thought, “Maybe I can take a class.” I opened the Yellow Pages looking at schools, and I closed my eyes and pointed my finger at one of the schools and called there. This woman answered the phone, and she said, “Why don't you come and see me and show me what you did?” When I showed it to her, she said, “Are you kidding? You should be teaching here.” It was one of my ready-made pieces. Actually, a few years before I came to New York, I went to London and showed it to Barbara Cartlidge, who had the first gallery for contemporary jewelry anywhere in the world in London. She loved it. She loved my work, and she bought five pieces. She took my work seriously, because basically I was playing and wearing it myself and giving it to a few friends who would get it as a present. So, I was shocked and very pleased.    This is what I showed this woman at the Parsons School of Design. This woman was the chair that took care of the department. I said, “I cannot teach here. I don't know anything,” and she said, “Well, clearly you do, but you're right. You should take a class and get to know how the school works, and maybe we can talk about you teaching here a year later.” I took a foundation course in jewelry making. It was Deborah Quado(?) who taught it. One day she said to my classmates, “This woman is dangerous.” I forgot to say that before I started this class, the chair invited me to a party at her house to introduce me to her colleagues. It was funny, because I was fresh out of the Czech Republic, this isolated, closed country, and I was in New York going to a party. I needed those people that became my friends for life.    That was a super important beginning of my journey in New York into the world of jewelry. A few years later, when I made my first collection, someone suggested I show it to Helen Drutt. I had no idea who Helen Drutt was. She was somewhere in Philadelphia. I went there by train, and Helen is looking at the work and says, “Would you mind if I represent your work in the gallery?” I said, “Well, sure, that's great,” but I had no idea that this was the beginning of something, like a water drain that pulls me in. The jewelry world pulled me in, and I was hooked.    From then on, I continued working and evolving my work. When I started teaching at Parsons, students would ask me whether they could learn how to solder and I said, “I advise you not to learn any traditional techniques because when you do, you will start making the same work as everybody else. You should give it your own way of putting things together.” At the end, I did teach them how to solder, and I was right.    I tried to continue with the same techniques I started when I was making these ready-made pieces, but with elements I created myself. Then I tried to put it together held by tension and different springs and flexible circles. I got inspired by bridges, by scaffolding on buildings, by electric power towers. I was transforming it into jewelry, and it got immediate attention from the press and from different galleries and collectors. I was onto something that kept me in the field, but eventually, when my kids grew older, this medium was too small for me. I wanted to get larger. Eventually, I did get back into designing interiors, but it was not under my own name.   Sharon: When you look at your résumé, it's hard to distill it down. You did everything, sculpture, architecture, interior design and jewelry. It's very hard to distill down. Interior design, does it reflect the avant garde aspect?   Eva: Yes, I am trying to do it my way. I love to use plywood and exposed edges to make it look very rough, but precise in terms of the forms. If you think of Donald Judd, for example, and his sculptures and nice furniture, it's a similar direction, but I'm trying to go further than that. I'm putting together pieces of furniture and vitrines for exhibitions and exhibition designs. While I am taking advantage of the—   Sharon: Opportunity?   Eva: Opportunity, yes. Sorry. I don't have that many opportunities lately to speak English, so my English is—   Sharon: It's very good.    Eva: On the other hand, yes, I'm interested in doing all these things, especially things that I never did before. I always learn something, but it's confusing to the outside world. “So, what is she? What is she trying to say?” For example, this famous architectural historian and critic, Kenneth Frampton from Columbia University, once said, “If one day somebody will look at your architectural works all together, they will understand that it's tight with a link, an underlying link.”    Sharon: Do you think you have an underlying link? Is it the avant garde aspect? What's your underlying link?   Eva: It's the systems. It's the materials. It's the way it's constructed. I'm a humble worshipper of sacred geometry. I like numbers that have played an important role in the past.   Sharon: Do you think the jewelry you saw when you came to the States was different than what you had seen before? Was it run-of-the-mill?   Eva: When I came to New York a few years later, I formed a group because I needed to have a connection. I organized a traveling show for this group throughout Europe and the group was—   Sharon: In case people don't know the names, they are very well-known avant garde people.    Eva: All these people were from New York, and we exhibited together at Forum Gallery and Robert Lee Morris on West Broadway. That brought us together a few times in one show, and through the tours I organized in New York, Ghent, Frankfurt, Berlin, Vienna and Prague.   Sharon: Wow! We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out.

Vom Lehrer zum Kultus- und Kunstminister. Diese Karriere hat Hans Zehetmair geschafft. Lange Jahre prägte der CSU-Mann die Bildungs- und Wissenschaftspolitik im Freistaat und sorgte schließlich dafür, dass in München die Pinakothek der Moderne gebaut wurde. Jetzt ist Zehetmair im Alter von 86 Jahren verstorben. Wir wiederholen ein Gespräch mit ihm von 2017. Moderation: Ursula Heller

Wir beginnen den ersten Teil unseres Programms mit einigen wichtigen Nachrichten dieser Woche. Als Erstes sprechen wir über die Reaktion der Staats- und Regierungschefs der G7-Länder auf die Forderung der Ukraine nach mehr Raketenabwehrsystemen im Anschluss an die jüngsten russischen Angriffe auf zivile Ziele. In den folgenden drei Nachrichtenstorys diskutieren wir über die Verleihung der diesjährigen Nobelpreise in drei verschiedenen Kategorien. Wir beginnen mit der Entscheidung des Nobel-Komitees, den Friedensnobelpreis 2022 an drei Aktivisten bzw. Organisationen aus der Ukraine, Russland und Belarus zu verleihen. Anschließend erfahren wir im wissenschaftlichen Teil unseres Programms mehr über die drei Gewinner des diesjährigen Nobelpreises für Physik und ihren Beitrag zur Quantenmechanik. Und zum Schluss sprechen wir über die französische Autorin Annie Ernaux, die den Literaturnobelpreis erhalten hat. Im zweiten Teil unseres Programms, „Trending in Germany“, sprechen wir über den Österreicher Anton Zeilinger, einen der drei diesjährigen Physik-Nobelpreisträger. Wir werden außerdem die Entscheidung der Münchener Pinakothek diskutieren, ein Bild von Adolf Ziegler auszustellen. Ziegler war der Lieblingsmaler Adolf Hitlers. Er war während der Nazi-Zeit dafür zuständig, deutsche Museen zu „säubern“ und alles zu entfernen, was nicht den Kunstvorstellungen der Nazis entsprach. Sollte dieses Bild abgehängt werden, oder können wir etwas daraus lernen? G-7-Staaten versprechen der Ukraine Raketenabwehrsysteme nach russischem Angriff Friedensnobelpreis für Aktivisten aus der Ukraine, Russland und Belarus Physik-Nobelpreis für 50 Jahre Forschung zur Quantenverschränkung Literaturnobelpreis für die französische Autorin Annie Ernaux „Mr. Beam“ gewinnt dreifach geteilten Nobelpreis für Physik Nazi-Kunst in München

Ein Bild des NS-Künstlers Adolf Ziegler prominent in der Münchner Pinakothek? Geht gar nicht, findet der Maler Georg Baselitz. Doch wie soll mit Kunst aus dem Nationalsozialismus umgegangen werden?www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, FazitDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Ein Bild des NS-Künstlers Adolf Ziegler prominent in der Münchner Pinakothek? Geht gar nicht, findet Maler Georg Baselitz. Es geht darum, einer jüngeren Generation die Auseinandersetzung mit diesen Werken zu ermöglichen, entgegnet Kurator Oliver Kase.Oliver Kase im Gespräch mit Vladimir Balzerwww.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, FazitDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Seine Ringe sind klobig, poppig und manchmal auch untragbar. Und trotzdem werden Schmuckstücke von Karl Fritsch in den wichtigsten Museen der Welt ausgestellt - vom Metropolitan in New York bis zur Münchner Pinakothek. Aufgewachsen ist der Künstler und Goldschmied im Allgäu, inzwischen lebt und arbeitet er in Neuseeland. Moderation: Norbert Joa

What you'll learn in this episode: Why the best modernist pieces are fetching record prices at auction today How “Messengers of Modernism” helped legitimize modernist jewelry as an art form The difference between modern jewelry and modernist jewelry Who the most influential modernist jewelers were and where they drew their inspiration from Why modernist jewelry was a source of empowerment for women About Toni Greenbaum Toni Greenbaum is a New York-based art historian specializing in twentieth and twenty-first century jewelry and metalwork. She wrote Messengers of Modernism: American Studio Jewelry 1940-1960 (Montréal: Musée des Arts Décoratifs and Flammarion, 1996), Sam Kramer: Jeweler on the Edge (Stuttgart: Arnoldsche Art Publishers, 2019) and “Jewelers in Wonderland,” an essay on Sam Kramer and Karl Fritsch for Jewelry Stories: Highlights from the Collection 1947-2019 (New York: Museum of Arts and Design and Arnoldsche, 2021), along with numerous book chapters, exhibition catalogues, and essays for arts publications. Greenbaum has lectured internationally at institutions such as the Pinakothek der Moderne, Munich; Academy of Arts, Architecture and Design in Prague; Yale University Art Gallery, New Haven; Cooper Hewitt Smithsonian Design Museum and Museum of Arts and Design, New York; Museum of Fine Arts, Boston; and Savannah College of Art and Design Museum of Art, Savannah. She has worked on exhibitions for several museums, including the Victoria and Albert in London, Musée des beaux-arts de Montréal, and Bard Graduate Center Gallery, New York. Additional Resources: Link to Purchase Books Toni's Instagram The Jewelry Library  Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: Once misunderstood as an illegitimate art form, modernist jewelry has come into its own, now fetching five and six-figure prices at auction. Modernist jewelry likely wouldn't have come this far without the work of Toni Greenbaum, an art historian, professor and author of “Messengers of Modernism: American Studio Jewelry, 1940 to 1960.” She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about the history of modernist jewelry; why it sets the women who wear it apart; and where collectors should start if they want to add modernist pieces to their collections. Read the episode transcript here.     Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please go to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today my guest is art historian, professor and author Toni Greenbaum. She is the author of the iconic tome, “Messengers of Modernism: American Studio Jewelry, 1940 to 1960,” which analyzes the output of America's modernist jewelers. Welcome back.    Do you think that if you had looked up and seen Sam Kramer's shop, would you have been attracted?   Toni: Oh, my god, I would have been up in a shot. Are you kidding? I would have tumbled up those stairs had I known it was there. I never even knew what it was, but I was always seeking out that aesthetic, that kind of thing. Like I said, my mother would buy handmade jewelry, silver jewelry, and I loved what she bought. I would go to galleries with her. When I say gallery, they were more like shops; they were like shop-galleries, multimedia boutiques, not specifically jewelry, that would carry handmade jewelry. I loved it. Had I seen Sam Kramer's shop, I would have been up like a shot. The same thing with Art Smith. I would have been down those steps like a shot, but I didn't know they were there, and I was too busy running after boys and going to the coffee shops in Greenwich Village to look carefully.   Sharon: Out here, I don't know if you would have had those influences.   Toni: You had a few shops. You're in the Los Angeles area?   Sharon: Yeah.   Toni: There were a few shops in L.A., not so much in Northern California. There was Nanny's in San Francisco, which was a craft gallery that carried a lot of jewelers. In Southern California there were a few studio shops, but I don't know how prominent they were. I don't know how obvious they were. I don't think that they were as much on people's radar as the ones in New York.   Sharon: When you say studio jewelers, was everything one-off, handmade?   Toni: Yes—well, not necessarily one-off. Generally, what these jewelers would do—this is the best generalization—for the larger, more expensive, more involved pieces, they would make one. When they sold it, they'd make another one, and when they sold that, they'd make another one. If the style was popular, they would also have what they would think of as production lines—earrings, cuff links, tie bars that they would replicate, but they were not cast usually. At that time, very little of it was cast. It was hand-wrought, so there were minor differences in each of the examples. But unless we get into the business records of these jewelers, we don't really know exactly how many they made of each design.   Sharon: Why is it, do you think, that modernist jewelry has been so popular today?   Toni: Oh, that's a good question. That's a very good question. I think a lot has to do with Fifty/50 Gallery's promotion. Fifty/50 was on Broadway at 12th Street, and it was a multimedia gallery that specialized in mid-20th century material. There were three very smart, very savvy, very charismatic owners who truly loved the material like I love it, and when you love something so much, when you have a passion, it's very easy to make other people love it also. I think a lot of the answer to that question is Fifty/50's promotion. They were also a very educative gallery. They were smart, and they knew how to give people the information they needed to know they were buying something special. I think it appeals to a certain kind of person.    Blanche Brown was an art historian in the midcentury who was married to Arthur Danto, who was a philosopher who taught art history at Columbia. His wife, Blanche Brown, was also an art historian. She did a lot of writing, and she would talk about the modernist jewelry, which she loved. It was a badge that she and her cohort would wear with pride because it showed them to be aesthetically aware, politically progressive. It made them stand apart from women who were wearing diamonds and precious jewelry just to show how wealthy their husbands were, which was in the 1940s and 1950s, the women who would wear this jewelry. So, for women like Blanche Brown and women through the 1960s, 70s, 80s and even now—well, now it's different because we have all the contemporary jewelers—but I think it set these women apart. It made them special in a way. It set them apart from the women who were wearing the Cartier and the Van Cleef and Arpels.    You dress for your peers. You dress to make your peers admire you, if not be envious. Within the Bohemian subculture of the 1950s, within the Beat Generation of the 1950s and through the 1960s and the hippies in the 1970s, it set apart that kind of woman. Remember, also, feminism was starting to become a very important aspect of lifestyle. I think when “The Feminine Mystique” came out around 1963—I would have to check it—women were starting to feel empowered. They wanted to show themselves to be intelligent and secure and powerful, and I think modernist jewelry imparted that message when one wore it. It's not that different than people who wear the contemporary jewelry we love so much now. Art Jewelry Forum says it's jewelry that makes you think, and that is what I think a lot of us relate to in that jewelry. It's jewelry with a real concept behind it.   Sharon: That leads me to the next question. I know the biographies repeat themselves. When I was looking up information about you, they said you're an expert in modernist and contemporary jewelry. Contemporary can mean anything. Would you agree with the contemporary aspect?   Toni: I don't view myself as an expert in contemporary. I think I know more than a lot of people about it only because I study it. It's very hard to keep up because there are so many new jewelers popping up all the time. The name of my course that I teach at Pratt is Theory and Criticism of Contemporary Jewelry. Because of that, I do have to keep up to the day because it's a required course for the juniors majoring in jewelry studies, and I feel a responsibility to make them aware of what's happening right at that point I'm teaching it. Things are changing so much in our field, but I don't view myself as an expert. I just think I know a lot about it. It's not my field of expertise, and there's so much. You've got German jewelers, and you've got Chinese jewelers, and you've got Australian and New Zealand jewelers, and you've got Swedish jewelers. All over the world. You've got Estonia, a little, small country, as these major jewelers. They are each individual disciplines in and of themselves.   Sharon: How is it that you wrote the catalogue that became “Messengers of Modernism”? Were you asked to write the catalogue?    Toni: Yeah, I was hired by David Hanks and Associates, which was and still is the curatorial firm. They're American, but they work for the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts. At that time, there was a separate Montreal Museum of Decorative Arts, and that's really where Messengers of Modernism—it came under the Montreal Museum of Decorative Arts. Now, it has been absorbed into the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts. It's just one building. It was a separate building. Basically I was hired by the museum to write the catalogue.   Sharon: And how did it become a book?    Toni: It is a book.    Sharon: Yes, but how did it become—it was a catalogue.   Toni: It's a book, but it functions as the catalogue in the next edition.   Sharon: Right, but I was saying that you wrote the catalogue, and then you said it was published by Flammarion in Paris. Did they say, “Oh, let's take it and make it a book?” How did it transform?   Toni: It was always a book, but it functioned as the catalogue for a particular collection, which is their collection of modernist jewelry. Many exhibitions, even painting exhibitions, when you go to a museum and view a painting exhibition and you buy the accompanying text, it's the catalogue of the exhibition.   Sharon: Yes, but a lot of those don't become books per se. That's why I was wondering, did somebody at the publishers see your catalogue and say, “This would make a great book?” I have never seen the exhibition, but I have the book.   Toni: I think this is a semantic conversation more than anything else. It has become, as I said, the standard text, mostly because nothing else really exists, except I believe Marbeth Schon wrote a book on the modernist jewelers which is more encyclopedic. This book, “Messengers of Modernism,” first of all, it puts the collection in the context of studio craft from the turn of the century up until then, which was then the present. The book was published in 1996. I think what you're saying is it's more important than what we think of as a museum catalogue and it's become a standard text.   Sharon: Yeah.   Toni: It was always conceived as a book about modernist jewelry; it was just focusing on this one collection. What I'm saying is people would say, “Well, why isn't this one in the book? Why did you leave this one out?” and I said, “Well, I didn't leave this one out. This is a book about a finite collection that's in the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts.” If I were writing a book about modernist jewelry, of course I would have included Claire Falkenstein, but she wasn't in their collection, so it's not in that book. That was basically what I meant.   Sharon: Is there a volume two that's going to be coming out with the ones that weren't in the collection that you think should be in the book?   Toni: That book was published in 1996. We're already in 2022. People are always asking me, but one never knows.    Sharon: I guess you don't need an exhibition to write a catalogue.    Toni: No, to write a book, of course you don't.   Sharon: To write a book. What's on your radar? What do you think you have next? Is it in the realm of modernism that you would be writing about?   Toni: That's really what I write about. I lecture about contemporary jewelry to my students and occasionally to the public, but my area of expertise is modernism. There are cardiologists that have a part of their practice in general medicine, but if somebody has a gastrointestinal problem, they're going to send them to a gastroenterologist. I can deal with the broad strokes, which I do, but unless it's one specific jeweler that I would write about, I would not attempt a book about contemporary jewelry. I would stick with modernism, what I feel very confident and comfortable with.   Sharon: If somebody who's passionate about jewelry but not wealthy said they want to start building a modernist collection, where would they start?   Toni: That is another good question. First of all, they would really have to comb the auctions. If they were very serious about collecting important works, I would send them to Mark McDonald, who's the premier dealer in this material. He was one of the partners of Fifty/50.   Sharon: Right, does he still work in that area? Didn't they close the store? Yeah, they closed the store.   Toni: Yeah, two of the partners tragically died. Mark had Gansevoort Gallery after. That was on Gansevoort Street in the Meatpacking District here in New York, which was a wonderful gallery also specializing in modernist material, multimedia. Then he had a shop up in Hudson, New York, for many years, right opposite Ornamentum Gallery. That closed, but he still deals privately. He is the most knowledgeable dealer in the period that I know of. If anybody was really serious about starting to collect modernist jewelry, he would be the person I recommend they go to.   Sharon: It sounds like somebody to collaborate with if you're writing your next book.   Toni: We always collaborate. We're good friends and we always collaborate.   Sharon: Where do you see the market for modernist jewelry? Do you see it continuing to grow? Is it flat? Is it growing?   Toni: Yes, the best of it will continue to grow. There was an auction right before the pandemic hit. I think it was February of 2020, right before we got slammed. It was an auction that was organized by David Rago Auction in New Hope, Pennsylvania, and Wright, which is also an auction gallery specializing in modern and modernism from Chicago. Mark McDonald curated the collection, and the idea behind that exhibition was it was going to go from modernist jewelry from the mid-20th century up to the present and show the lineage and the inheritance from the modernist jewelers. It also included Europeans, and there was some wonderful modernist jewelry in that exhibition that sold very well—the move star pieces, the big pieces.    Then there was—I guess a year ago, no more than that—there was an auction at Bonhams auction house which was one couple's collection of modernist jewelry, artist jewelry—and by artists, I mean Picasso and Max Ernst, modernist artists. They collected a lot of Mexican jewelry and two of Art Smith's most major bracelets, his modern cuff and his lava cuff. I always forget which sold for what, but these were copper and brass cuffs. One sold for $18,000 and one sold for $13,000. I think the modern cuff was $18,000 and the lava cuff was $13,000. If anybody comes to my lecture tomorrow for GemEx, I talk about both of them in detail. This is big money. Five figures is very big money for these items, but these are the best of the best, the majors of the major by Art Smith. Art Smith is currently very, very coveted.   Sharon: Who's your favorite of the modernist jewelers? Who would you say?   Toni: Well, I have two favorites. There are three that are the most important, so let's say three favorites. One is Art Smith, and the reason is because the designs are just brilliant. They really take the body into consideration, negative space into consideration, and they're just spectacularly designed and beautiful to wear. Sam Kramer, the best of his work, the really weird, crazy, surrealist pieces like the one that's on the cover and the back of the Sam Kramer book. Margaret de Patta, who was from the San Francisco Bay area, and she was diametrically opposite to these two because her work was based upon constructivism. She had studied under Moholy-Nagy, the Hungarian constructivist painter, sculptor, photographer. Her work is architectural based upon these eccentrically cut stones. She would be inspired by the rutilations, which are the inclusions within quartz, and she would design her structures around them. I would say those are my three favorites.   Sharon: That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought of Margaret de Patta. I guess I think of her in a different category. I don't know why.   Toni: She's one of the most important modernist jewelers. She founded that whole San Francisco Bay Area MAG, the Metal Arts Guild. She was their guru.    Sharon: When I think of San Francisco at that time, I think of all the jewelry I bought when I was 16 and then I said, “What did I want this for?” Now I see it in the flea markets for 14 times the price I paid for it.   Toni: Right.   Sharon: But who knew. Anyway, Toni, thank you so much. It's been so great to have you. We really learned a lot. It's a real treat. Thank you.   Toni: I had a great time also. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you.   Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.

What you'll learn in this episode: Why the best modernist pieces are fetching record prices at auction today How “Messengers of Modernism” helped legitimize modernist jewelry as an art form The difference between modern jewelry and modernist jewelry Who the most influential modernist jewelers were and where they drew their inspiration from Why modernist jewelry was a source of empowerment for women About Toni Greenbaum Toni Greenbaum is a New York-based art historian specializing in twentieth and twenty-first century jewelry and metalwork. She wrote Messengers of Modernism: American Studio Jewelry 1940-1960 (Montréal: Musée des Arts Décoratifs and Flammarion, 1996), Sam Kramer: Jeweler on the Edge (Stuttgart: Arnoldsche Art Publishers, 2019) and “Jewelers in Wonderland,” an essay on Sam Kramer and Karl Fritsch for Jewelry Stories: Highlights from the Collection 1947-2019 (New York: Museum of Arts and Design and Arnoldsche, 2021), along with numerous book chapters, exhibition catalogues, and essays for arts publications. Greenbaum has lectured internationally at institutions such as the Pinakothek der Moderne, Munich; Academy of Arts, Architecture and Design in Prague; Yale University Art Gallery, New Haven; Cooper Hewitt Smithsonian Design Museum and Museum of Arts and Design, New York; Museum of Fine Arts, Boston; and Savannah College of Art and Design Museum of Art, Savannah. She has worked on exhibitions for several museums, including the Victoria and Albert in London, Musée des beaux-arts de Montréal, and Bard Graduate Center Gallery, New York. Additional Resources: Link to Purchase Books Toni's Instagram The Jewelry Library  Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: Once misunderstood as an illegitimate art form, modernist jewelry has come into its own, now fetching five and six-figure prices at auction. Modernist jewelry likely wouldn't have come this far without the work of Toni Greenbaum, an art historian, professor and author of “Messengers of Modernism: American Studio Jewelry, 1940 to 1960.” She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about the history of modernist jewelry; why it sets the women who wear it apart; and where collectors should start if they want to add modernist pieces to their collections. Read the episode transcript here.   Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is a two-part Jewelry Journey Podcast. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it comes out later this week.    Today my guest is art historian, professor and author Toni Greenbaum. She is the author of the iconic tome, “Messengers of Modernism: American Studio Jewelry, 1940 to 1960,” which analyzes the output of America's modernist jewelers. Most recently, she authored “Sam Kramer: Jeweler on the Edge,” a biography of the jeweler Sam Kramer. Every time I say jeweler I think I'm using the world a little loosely, but we're so glad to have you here today. Thank you so much.   Toni: I am so glad to be here, Sharon. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's been many years coming.   Sharon: I'm glad we connected. Tell me about your jewelry journey. It sounds very interesting.   Toni: Well, there's a lot you don't know about my jewelry journey. My jewelry journey began when I was a preteen. I just became fascinated with Native American, particularly Navajo, jewelry that I would see in museum gift shops. I started to buy it when I was a teenager, what I could afford. In those days, I have to say museum gift shops were fabulous, particularly the Museum of Natural History gift shop, the Brooklyn Museum gift shop. They had a lot of ethnographic material of very high quality. So, I continued to buy Native American jewelry. My mother used to love handcrafted jewelry, and she would buy it in whatever craft shops or galleries she could find.    Then eventually in my 20s and 30s, I got outpriced. Native American jewelry was becoming very, very fashionable, particularly in the late 60s, 1970s. I started to see something that looked, to me, very much like Native American jewelry, but it was signed. It had names on it, and some of them sounded kind of Mexican—in fact, they were Mexican. So, I started to buy Mexican jewelry because I could afford it. Then that became very popular when names like William Spratling and Los Castillo and Hector Aguilar became known. I saw something that looked like Mexican jewelry and Navajo jewelry, but it wasn't; it was made by Americans. In fact, it would come to be known as modernist jewelry. Then I got outpriced with that, but that's the start of my jewelry journey.   Sharon: So, you liked jewelry from when you were a youth.    Toni: Oh, from when I was a child. I was one of these little three, four-year-olds that was all decked out. My mother loved jewelry. I was an only child, and I was, at that time, the only grandchild. My grandparents spoiled me, and my parents spoiled me, and I loved jewelry, so I got a lot of jewelry. That and Frankie Avalon records.   Sharon: Do you still collect modernist? You said you were getting outpriced. You write about it. Do you still collect it?   Toni: Not really. The best of the modernist jewelry is extraordinarily expensive, and unfortunately, I want the best. If I see something when my husband and I are antiquing or at a flea market or at a show that has style and that's affordable, occasionally I'll buy it, but I would not say that I can buy the kind of jewelry I want in the modernist category any longer. I did buy several pieces in the early 1980s from Fifty/50 Gallery, when they were first putting modernist jewelry on the map in the commercial aspect. I was writing about it; they were selling it. They were always and still are. Mark McDonald still is so generous with me as far as getting images and aiding my research immeasurably. Back then, the modernist jewelry was affordable, and luckily I did buy some major pieces for a tenth of what they would get today.   Sharon: Wow! When you say the best of modernist jewelry today, Calder was just astronomical. We'll put that aside.   Toni: Even more astronomical: there's a Harry Bertoia necklace that somebody called my attention to that is coming up at an auction at Christie's. If they don't put that in their jewelry auctions, they'll put it in their design auctions. I think it's coming up at the end of June; I forget the exact day. The estimate on the Harry Bertoia necklace is $200,000 to $300,000—and this is a Harry Bertoia necklace. I'm just chomping at the bit to find out what it, in fact, is going to bring, but that's the estimate they put, at $200,000 to $300,000.   Sharon: That's a lot of money. What holds your interest in modernist jewelry?   Toni: The incredible but very subtle design aspect of it. Actually, tomorrow I'm going to be giving a talk on Art Smith for GemEx. Because my background is art history, one of the things I always do when I talk about these objects is to show how they were inspired by the modern art movements. This is, I think, what sets modernist jewelry apart from other categories of modern and contemporary jewelry. There are many inspirations, but it is that they are very much inspired by Cubism, Surrealism, Abstract Expressionism, Biomorphism, etc., depending on the artist. Some are influenced by all of the above, and I think I saw that. I saw it implicitly before I began to analyze it in the jewelry.    This jewelry is extraordinarily well-conceived. A lot of the craftsmanship is not pristine, but I have never been one for pristine craftsmanship. I love rough surfaces, and I love the process to show in the jewelry. Much of the modernist jewelry is irreverent—I use the word irreverent instead of sloppy—as far as the process is concerned. It was that hands-on, very direct approach, in addition to this wonderful design sense, which, again, came from the modern art movements. Most of the jewelers—not all of them, but most of them—lived either in New York or in Northern or Southern California and had access to museums, and these people were aesthetes. They would go to museums. They would see Miro's work; they would see Picasso's work, and they would definitely infuse their designs with that sensibility.   Sharon: Do you think that jumped out at you, the fact that they were inspired by different art movements, because you studied art history? You teach it, or you did teach it at one time?    Toni: No, just history of jewelry. I majored in art history, but I've never taught art history. I've taught history of jewelry. We can argue about whether jewelry is art or not, but history of jewelry is what I've taught.   Sharon: I've taken basic art history, but I couldn't tell you some of the movements you're talking about. I can't identify the different movements. Do you think it jumped out at you because you're knowledgeable?   Toni: Yes, definitely, because I would look at Art Smith and I would say, “That's Biomorphism.” I would see it. It was obvious. I would look at Sam Kramer and I would say, “This is Surrealism.” He was called a surrealist jeweler back in his day, when he was practicing and when he had his shop on 8th Street. I would look at Rebajes and I would see Cubism. Of course, it was because I was well-versed in those movements, because what I was always most interested in when I was studying art history were the more modern movements.   Sharon: Did you think you would segue to jewelry in general? Was that something on your radar?   Toni: That's a very interesting question because when I was in college, I had a nucleus of professors who happened to have come from Cranbrook.   Sharon: I'm sorry, from where?   Toni: Cranbrook School of Art.   Sharon: O.K., Cranbrook.   Toni: I actually took a metalsmithing class as an elective, just to see what it was because I was so interested in jewelry, although I was studying what I call legitimate art history. I was so interested in jewelry that I wanted to see what the process was. I probably was the worst jeweler that ever tried to make jewelry, but I learned what it is to make. I will tell you something else, Sharon, it is what has given me such respect for the jewelers, because when you try to do it yourself and you see how challenging it is, you really respect the people who do it miraculously even more.    So, I took this class just to see what it was, and the teacher—I still remember his name. His name was Cunningham; I don't remember his first name. He was from Cranbrook, and he sent the class to a retail store in New York on 53rd Street, right opposite MOMA, called America House.   Sharon: Called American House?   Toni: America House. America House was the retail enterprise of the American Craft Council. They had the museum, which was then called the Museum of Contemporary Crafts; now it's called MAD, Museum of Arts and Design. They had the museum, and they had a magazine, Craft Horizons, which then became American Craft, and then they had this retail store. I went into America House—and this was the late 1960s—and I knew I had found my calling. I looked at this jewelry, which was really fine studio jewelry. It was done by Ronald Pearson; it was done by Jack Kripp. These were the people that America House carried. I couldn't afford to buy it. I did buy some of the jewelry when they went out of business and had a big sale in the early 1970s. At that time I couldn't, but I looked at the jewelry and the holloware, and I had never seen anything like it. Yes, I had seen Native American that I loved, and I had seen Mexican that I loved. I hadn't yet seen modernist; that wasn't going to come until the early 1980s. But here I saw this second generation of studio jewelers, and I said, “I don't know what I'm going to do with this professionally, but I know I've got to do something with it because this is who I am. This is what I love.”    Back in the late 1960s, it was called applied arts. Anything that was not painting and sculpture was applied art. Ceramics was applied art; furniture was applied art; textiles, jewelry, any kind of metalwork was applied art. Nobody took it seriously as an academic discipline in America, here in this country. Then I went on to graduate school, still in art history. I was specializing in what was then contemporary art, particularly color field painting, but I just loved what was called the crafts, particularly the metalwork. I started to go to the library and research books on jewelry. I found books on jewelry, but they were all published in Europe, mostly England. There were things in other languages other than French, which I could read with a dictionary. There were books on jewelry history, but they were not written in America; everything was in Europe. So, I started to read voraciously about the history of jewelry, mostly the books that came out of the Victoria & Albert Museum. I read all about ancient jewelry and medieval jewelry and Renaissance jewelry. Graham Hughes, who was then the director of the V&A, had written a book, “Modern Jewelry,” and it had jewelry by artists, designed by Picasso and Max Ernst and Brach, including things that were handmade in England and all over Europe. I think even some of the early jewelers in our discipline were in that book. If I remember correctly, I think Friedrich Becker, for example, might have been in Graham Hughes' “Modern Jewelry,” because that was published, I believe, in the late 1960s.    So, I saw there was a literature in studio jewelry; it just wasn't in America. Then I found a book on William Spratling, this Mexican jeweler whose work I had collected. It was not a book about his jewelry; it was an autobiography about himself that obviously he had written, but it was so rich in talking about the metalsmithing community in Taxco, Mexico, which is where he, as an American, went to study the colonial architecture. He wound up staying and renovating the silver mines that had been dormant since the 18th century. It was such a great story, and I said, “There's something here,” but no graduate advisor at that time, in the early 70s, was going to support you in wanting to do a thesis on applied art, no matter what the medium. But in the back of my mind, I always said, “I'm going to do something with this at some point.”    Honestly, Sharon, I never thought I would live to see the day that this discipline is as rich as it is, with so much literature, with our publishers publishing all of these fantastic jewelry books, and other publishers, like Flammarion in Paris, which published “Messengers of Modernism.” Then there's the interest in Montreal at the Museum of Fine Arts, which is the museum that has the “Messengers of Modernism” collection. It has filtered into the Houston Museum of Fine Arts, Dallas, obviously MAD. So many museums are welcoming. I never thought I would live to see the day. It really is so heartening. I don't have words to express how important this is, but I just started to do it. In the early 1970s or mid-1970s—I don't think my daughter was born yet. My son was a toddler. I would sit in my free moments and write an article about William Spratling, because he was American. He went to Mexico, but he was American. He was the only American I knew of that I could write about. Not that that article was published at that time, but I was doing the research and I was writing it.   Sharon: That's interesting. If there had been a discipline of jewelry history or something in the applied arts, if an advisor had said, “Yes, I'll support you,” or “Why don't you go ahead and get your doctorate or your master's,” that's something you would have done?   Toni: Totally, without even a thought, yes. Because when I was studying art history, I would look at Hans Holbein's paintings of Henry VIII and Sir Thomas More, and all I would do was look at the jewelry they were wearing, the chains and the badges on their berets. I said, “Oh my god, that is so spectacular.” Then I learned that Holbein actually designed the jewelry, which a lot of people don't know. I said, “There is something to this.” I would look at 18th century paintings with women, with their pearls and rings and bracelets, and all I would do was look at the jewelry. I would have in a heartbeat. If I could have had a graduate advisor, I would have definitely pursued that.   Sharon: When you say you never thought you'd live to see the day when modernist jewelry is so popular—not that it's so surprising, but you are one of the leaders of the movement. When I mentioned to somebody, “Oh, I like modernist jewelry,” the first thing they said was, “Well, have you read ‘Messengers of Modernism?'” As soon as I came home—I was on a trip—I got it. So, you are one of the leaders.   Toni: Well, it is interesting. It is sort of the standard text, but people will say, “Well, why isn't Claire Falkenstein in the book? She's so important,” and I say, “It's looked upon as a standard text, but the fact is it's a catalogue to an exhibition. That was the collection.” Fifty/50 Gallery had a private collection. As I said before, they were at the forefront of promoting and selling modernist jewelry, but they did have a private collection. That collection went to Montreal in the 1990s because at that time, there wasn't an American museum that was interested in taking that collection. That book is the catalogue of that finite collection. So, there are people who are major modernist jewelers—Claire Falkenstein is one that comes to mind—that are not in that collection, so they're not in the book. There's a lot more to be said and written about that movement.   Sharon: I'm sure you've been asked this a million times: What's the difference between modern and modernist jewelry?   Toni: Modern is something that's up to date at a point in time, but modernist jewelry is—this is a word we adopted. The word existed, but we adopted it to define the mid-20th century studio jewelry, the post-war jewelry. It really goes from 1940 to the 1960s. That's it; that's the time limit of modernist jewelry. Again, it's a word we appropriated. We took that word and said, “We're going to call this category modernist jewelry because we have to call it something, so that's the term.” Modern means up to date. That's just a general word.   Sharon: When you go to a show and see things that are in the modernist style, it's not truly modernist if it was done today, it wasn't done before 1960.   Toni: Right, no. Modernist jewelry is work that's done in that particular timeframe and that also subscribes to what I was saying, this appropriation of motifs from the modern art movement. There was plenty of costume jewelry and fine jewelry being done post-war, and that is jewelry that is mid-20th century. You can call it mid-20th century modern, which confuses the issue even more, but it's not modernist jewelry. Modernist jewelry is jewelry that was done in the studio by a silversmith and was inspired by the great movements in modern art and some other inspirations. Art Smith was extremely motivated by African motifs, but also by Calder and by Biomorphism. It's not religious. There are certainly gray areas, but in general, that's modernist jewelry.    Sharon: I feel envious when you talk about everything that was going in on New York. I have a passion, but there's no place on the West Coast that I would go to look at some of this stuff.   Toni: I'll tell you one of the ironies, Sharon. Post-war, definitely through the 1950s and early 1960s, there must have been 13 to 15 studio shops by modernist jewelers. You had Sam Kramer on 8th Street and Art Smith on 4th Street and Polo Bell, who was on 4th Street and then he was on 8th Street, and Bill Tendler, and you had Jules Brenner, and Henry Steig was Uptown. Ed Wiener was all over the place. There were so many jewelers in New York, and I never knew about them. I never went to any of their shops. I used to hang out in the Village when I was a young teenager, walked on 4th Street; never saw Art Smith's shop. He was there from 1949 until 1977. I used to walk on 8th Street, and Sam Kramer was on the second floor. I never looked up, and I didn't know this kind of jewelry existed. In those days, like I said, I was still collecting Navajo.