Podcast appearances and mentions of katherine morgan schafler

Check out Hello Fresh!! https://www.filify.co/SHBn0 use my code HF-0449 for up to 10 free meals plus free breakfast for life!!hey yall! in this week's episode, i'm talking about why you keep falling off your goals and how to actually create lasting change. i break down the real reason discipline doesn't work when you don't have a deeper why behind it, plus how to reconnect with your purpose, stay consistent, and stop waiting for the “perfect time” to start.we'll get into the stages of change, building habits that stick, overcoming perfectionism, and shifting your mindset so you can finally become your ideal self. i also touch on dating, independence, and how your “soft girl” era can still be powerful and self-led. rant alert lmao.this is your reminder that nobody's perfect, but progress, consistency, and self-trust will get you further than waiting for everything to be aligned.

Mon agneau, tu cherches à mettre de l'équilibre dans ta vie? Pro/perso, tu veux la bonne équation? ARRÊTE TOUT DE SUITE! D'après le bouquin que je suis en train de lire en ce moment (The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Contro ou, en français, Perfectionnistes), on se trompe d'objectif. Je t'explique comment l'autrice, Katherine Morgan Schafler, voit les choses. Je suis de plus en plus d'accord avec elle. Tu me diras ce que tu en penses? Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin 

Perfectionism isn't one-size-fits-all. It shows up in ways you may not even realize. In this episode, I sit down with psychotherapist and author Katherine Morgan Schafler to talk about how perfectionism fuels growth instead of stress. Katherine shares the five types of perfectionists, how to identify your own patterns, and why perfectionism without boundaries often turns destructive. We also dive into how to channel perfectionist tendencies into self-awareness, resilience, and real power rather than burnout or fear. Tune in to discover how to reframe perfectionism not as a flaw to fix, but as a signal of your drive and potential. In This Episode You Will Learn PERFECTIONISM is not a flaw but a POWER with the right boundaries. The DIFFERENCE between manipulation and influence. The 3 STEP SELF-COMPASSION framework that builds resilience and confidence.  Why PERFECTIONISM in men is celebrated but in women criticized. Why asking for HELP is actually a SIGN OF DETERMINATION. How REFRAMING control shifts your approach to goals. The FIVE TYPES of perfectionists and how each one shows up in life and work. Resources + Links Learn more about Katherine: ⁠www.katherineschafler.com⁠ & ⁠www.perfectionistsguide.com⁠ Read ⁠The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control⁠  Take the ⁠Perfectionism Profile Quiz⁠ Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/monahan Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com/MONAHAN. Want to do more and spend less like Uber, 8x8, and Databricks Mosaic? Take a free test drive of OCI at oracle.com/MONAHAN. Get 10% off your first Mitopure order at timeline.com/CONFIDENCE. Get 15% off your first order when you use code CONFIDENCE15 at checkout at jennikayne.com. Call my digital clone at 201-897-2553!  Visit heathermonahan.com Sign up for my mailing list: heathermonahan.com/mailing-list/  Overcome Your Villains is Available NOW! Order here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com  If you haven't yet, get my first book Confidence Creator Follow Heather on Instagram & LinkedIn Katherine on Instagram

Have you ever been told that your perfectionism is a problem? Maybe you've felt like it's the reason you're stressed, restless, or never satisfied with yourself. But what if perfectionism isn't actually the enemy? What if it's a form of power that, when channeled with compassion, can actually bring you more joy and meaning? In this episode, I'm joined by Katherine Morgan Schafler, a psychotherapist and the author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control. Katherine offers a refreshing perspective: perfectionism doesn't need to be “fixed” or hidden—it can be embraced and redirected in healthier, more adaptive ways. In this conversation, you'll learn:

Quand on doute, on a souvent le réflexe de chercher une nouvelle stratégie entrepreneuriale. Mais parfois, la seule vraie question à se poser, c'est : qu'est-ce que j'aime faire ? Dans cette Minute Marine, je rebondis sur une citation extraite du livre The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control de Katherine Morgan Schafler. Je t'explique pourquoi cette question, en apparence perso et gnangnan, peut en réalité devenir un véritable atout business. Et comment, moi, elle m'a aidée à réajuster ma stratégie de communication autour du podcast. (Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin

If you've ever said “I should be doing my spiritual practice” and then immediately felt guilty for not doing it perfectly... this episode is for you! We're talking about the five types of perfectionists (yes, you're probably one of them) and how each one shows up in your rituals and routines with a witchy twist on The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler.Whether you're a messy witch with 12 open tabs or a people-pleasing Parisian perfectionist, you'll walk away knowing how to stop self-sabotaging and start working with your perfectionism. Bonus: there's a full ritual menu + notes waiting for you on Patreon here!This week's sponsor is Libra.fm: Support your local bookstore and this podcast by grabbing your audiobooks through Libro.fm. Now until June 22 Libro.fm is offering BOGO credits: During the sale, members can get two audiobooks from a curated selection for just one audiobook credit. This is a great time to become a Libro.fm member, scoop up a bunch of great audiobooks while supporting your fave bookshop! Click here to shop the sale!But wait-- there's more!!If you're a NEW Libro.fm member you can use the code SWITCH to get three books for the price of one when you sign up-- that means six audiobooks through the BOGO sale. Click here to start a new membership with the SWITCH code! (*Note: code only works on one credit a month plan and past members are not eligible.)If you're looking for some witchy books to listen to: Our audiobook recs can be found here!Join us IRL for Project Mailstorm on July 6th!

Quand on doute, on a souvent le réflexe de chercher une nouvelle stratégie entrepreneuriale. Mais parfois, la seule vraie question à se poser, c'est : qu'est-ce que j'aime faire ? Dans cette Minute Marine, je rebondis sur une citation extraite du livre The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control de Katherine Morgan Schafler. Je t'explique pourquoi cette question, en apparence perso et gnangnan, peut en réalité devenir un véritable atout business. Et comment, moi, elle m'a aidée à réajuster ma stratégie de communication autour du podcast. (Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin

Ma graine de sequoia, tu fais ça, toi aussi ? Te concentrer surtout sur tes faiblesses, en te disant que “quand ce sera réglé, tout ira mieux” ? Moi oui. Et apparemment, je suis loin d'être la seule. Dans cette Minute Marine, je te reparle du bouquin que je lis en ce moment : The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control, de Katherine Morgan Schafler. J'y ai trouvé une idée toute simple, mais vraiment utile : → plutôt que de s'épuiser à corriger ce qui cloche, on ferait mieux de miser davantage sur ce qu'on fait bien. → Et pour ça, faut commencer par le repérer. Je te partage les questions proposées dans le livre pour identifier tes “gifts” — ces choses que tu fais bien, sans effort, parfois même sans t'en rendre compte. Et toi ? Tu les connais, tes “gifts” ? Ou tu passes ton temps à essayer de te réparer ? (Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin

If you've ever felt stuck, scattered, or like you're running your business on autopilot, this episode is your wake-up call. Shauna Lynn dives into how specific visualization methods - the same technique used by Olympic athletes and top-performing CEOs - can become your secret weapon for creating unstoppable momentum. You'll learn how to use neuroscience-backed mental strategies to refocus your energy, reconnect with your goals, and start showing up like the business leader you know you're meant to be.Inside this episode, you'll get a practical, no-fluff approach to visualizing your success in a way that actually impacts your results. From boosting motivation and confidence to making faster, more aligned decisions, you'll leave with a powerful tool you can use daily to build belief, stay disciplined, and take intentional action. Whether you're scaling to new heights or just trying to fall back in love with your business, this episode will help you get out of your head and into your next level.Timestamps:(00:00–03:30) – Starting Where You Are(03:31–10:45) – The Science Behind Visualization(10:46–17:15) – Applying Visualization to Business Goals(17:16–24:00) – Creating a Daily Visualization Practice(24:01–31:45) – Turning Visualization into Aligned ActionResources:Set up a free Introductory Business Planning Session with Shauna Lynn: AboutShaunaLynn.com/planLearn more about the show: AboutShaunaLynn.com/podcastThe Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler: https://amzn.to/4jUFltX (affiliate link)Check Out Michael Phelps: https://www.instagram.com/m_phelps00/?hl=enCheck Out Tiger Woods: https://www.instagram.com/tigerwoods/?hl=en

Ma graine de sequoia, j'ai encore eu une révélation en lisant The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control, de Katherine Morgan Schafler. Je mobilise presque toute mon énergie, mon jus de

For Women's Month, I'm sharing insights from three powerful women; Lisa Bilyeu, Katherine Morgan Schafler, and Tonya Lester, on personal growth, healing, and transformation. The episode explores key themes of building radical self-confidence, overcoming perfectionism, understanding manifestation, and developing self-compassion. It provides listeners with strategies to rewire their mindset, tap into their intuition, and create meaningful change in every area of your life. In This Episode You Will Learn How often to check in if your actions still match your goals. Ways to practice self-compassion and intentionally build resilience and personal power. Manifest with conviction, not just mental calculation. The trap to avoid so you don't stay stuck. How to build unshakable self-worth. Resources + Links Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/monahan Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com/MONAHAN. Want to do more and spend less like Uber, 8x8, and Databricks Mosaic? Take a free test drive of OCI at oracle.com/MONAHAN. Get 10% off your first Mitopure order at timeline.com/CONFIDENCE. Get 15% off your first order when you use code CONFIDENCE15 at checkout at jennikayne.com. Call my digital clone at 201-897-2553!  Visit heathermonahan.com Sign up for my mailing list: heathermonahan.com/mailing-list/  Overcome Your Villains is Available NOW! Order here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com  If you haven't yet, get my first book Confidence Creator Follow Heather on Instagram & LinkedIn

Sisters, if you've ever wondered if you might be a perfectionist, chances are you may be. And, according to author Katherine Morgan Schafler, that's more than okay. Schafler, author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path ot Peace and Power, encourages us to look at perfectionism in a more positive light and to discard the pathologizing of it. You can be a perfectionist and, yes, you can be happy! Schafler explains there isn't just one way to be a perfectionist and identifies 5 different types: Intense, Classic, Parisian, Procrastinator, and Messy. (Both Abby and Julie admit to being the Messy Type!) In Schafler's own words, "Perfectionism invites a deep, unending exploration of who you are and what you most desire from this life." We couldn't agree more.

You might know of ALEXIS FERNANDEZ-PREIKSA, neuroscientist turned beloved podcast host, known for her no-holds-barred, tough love attitude, and accessible approach to scientifically proven mindset hacks. Her pep talks and deep dives on the hit podcast Do You F*****g Mind?  (over 10 million downloads as of 2023!) are like getting advice from a trusted friend and loyal supporter. In HOW TO CHASE CHANGE, Alexis offers her foundational advice as an accessible guide. All of her advice is backed by scientific research, and the audiobook includes fascinating facts and case studies about the human brain throughout. This listen is as informative as it is inspiring and perfect for the time of year when we are all looking for a reset or a jumpstart on our self-improvement goals. "How to Chase Change is a step-by-step guide that will teach you the true power of your own mind and leave you feeling motivated and inspired." - Tunde Oyeneyin, New York Times bestselling Author of Speak and Peloton Instructor "Alexis helps you tap on the glass of your mind just enough to get the attention of your core beliefs and reorganize them to your advantage, making change feel natural. No fluff, no drama - just a great way to jumpstart you out of feeling stuck." - Katherine Morgan Schafler, author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-unplugged-totally-uncut--994165/support.

Mon agneau, tu cherches à mettre de l'équilibre dans ta vie? Pro/perso, tu veux la bonne équation? ARRÊTE TOUT DE SUITE! D'après le bouquin que je suis en train de lire en ce moment (The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Contro ou, en français, Perfectionnistes), on se trompe d'objectif. Je t'explique comment l'autrice, Katherine Morgan Schafler, voit les choses. Je suis de plus en plus d'accord avec elle. Tu me diras ce que tu en penses? Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin ou laisse-moi un mot sur le

You might know of ALEXIS FERNANDEZ-PREIKSA, neuroscientist turned beloved podcast host, known for her no-holds-barred, tough love attitude, and accessible approach to scientifically proven mindset hacks. Her pep talks and deep dives on the hit podcast Do You F*****g Mind?  (over 10 million downloads as of 2023!) are like getting advice from a trusted friend and loyal supporter. In HOW TO CHASE CHANGE, Alexis offers her foundational advice as an accessible guide. All of her advice is backed by scientific research, and the audiobook includes fascinating facts and case studies about the human brain throughout. This listen is as informative as it is inspiring and perfect for the time of year when we are all looking for a reset or a jumpstart on our self-improvement goals. "How to Chase Change is a step-by-step guide that will teach you the true power of your own mind and leave you feeling motivated and inspired." - Tunde Oyeneyin, New York Times bestselling Author of Speak and Peloton Instructor "Alexis helps you tap on the glass of your mind just enough to get the attention of your core beliefs and reorganize them to your advantage, making change feel natural. No fluff, no drama - just a great way to jumpstart you out of feeling stuck." - Katherine Morgan Schafler, author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.

One of the books that has made the biggest impression on me in the last few years is The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler. I have talked about this book EVERYWHERE and insisted that even people who do not self-identify as "perfectionists" would get something out of it.So you can imagine that I was thrilled with the Secret Stuff members chose TPGTLC as a book club pick and I was doubly thrilled when author Katherine Morgan Schafler agreed to attend our regular monthly book club meeting to discuss it.JOIN THE SECRET STUFF BOOK CLUB HEREThis episode is a replay of our book club discussion that was held over zoom, where Katherine and I held a great conversation about some of the major points of the book (including the five different types of "perfectionists"), and then Secret Stuff members got to ask her questions.I loved our conversation so much that I wanted everyone to hear it (and to read the book!). If you like these types of book club meetings, consider joining the Secret Stuff Book Club for 2025. We always have the best meetings with thoughtful conversations.Read The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing ControlFollow @katherinemorganschafler on IGFULL SHOW NOTES HEREMENTIONED in this episode:The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown (also one of my favorite books of all time)“Tracker” on CBS SUBSCRIBE to 10 Things To Tell You so you never miss an episode!CLICK HERE for episode show notesFOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on InstagramFOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on FacebookJOIN the 10 Things To Tell You Connection GroupSIGN UP for episode emails, links, and show notesJOIN the Secret Stuff PatreonBUY THE BOOK: Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First. by Laura TremaineBUY THE BOOK: The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needs by Laura Tremaine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

One of the books that has made the biggest impression on me in the last few years is The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler. I have talked about this book EVERYWHERE and insisted that even people who do not self-identify as "perfectionists" would get something out of it. So you can imagine that I was thrilled with the Secret Stuff members chose TPGTLC as a book club pick and I was doubly thrilled when author Katherine Morgan Schafler agreed to attend our regular monthly book club meeting to discuss it. JOIN THE SECRET STUFF BOOK CLUB HERE This episode is a replay of our book club discussion that was held over zoom, where Katherine and I held a great conversation about some of the major points of the book (including the five different types of "perfectionists"), and then Secret Stuff members got to ask her questions. I loved our conversation so much that I wanted everyone to hear it (and to read the book!). If you like these types of book club meetings, consider joining the Secret Stuff Book Club for 2025. We always have the best meetings with thoughtful conversations. Read The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control Follow @katherinemorganschafler on IG FULL SHOW NOTES HERE MENTIONED in this episode: The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown (also one of my favorite books of all time) “Tracker” on CBS   SUBSCRIBE to 10 Things To Tell You so you never miss an episode! CLICK HERE for episode show notes FOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on Instagram FOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on Facebook JOIN the 10 Things To Tell You Connection Group SIGN UP for episode emails, links, and show notes JOIN the Secret Stuff Patreon BUY THE BOOK: Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First. by Laura Tremaine BUY THE BOOK: The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needs by Laura Tremaine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In This Episode You Will Learn About:  The pros & cons of perfectionism  Getting introspective   Stepping into your POWER The 5 different perfectionist personality types  Reframing our mindset  Resources: Website: www.katherineschafler.com & www.perfectionistsguide.com   Read The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control  Take the Perfectionism Profile Quiz LinkedIn: @Katerine Morgan Schafler  Instagram: @katherinemorganschafler Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/monahan Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com/MONAHAN. Want to do more and spend less like Uber, 8x8, and Databricks Mosaic? Take a free test drive of OCI at oracle.com/MONAHAN. Get 10% off your first Mitopure order at timeline.com/CONFIDENCE. Get 15% off your first order when you use code CONFIDENCE15 at checkout at jennikayne.com. Call my digital clone at 201-897-2553!  Visit heathermonahan.com Reach out to me on Instagram & LinkedIn Sign up for my mailing list: heathermonahan.com/mailing-list/  Overcome Your Villains is Available NOW! Order here: https://overcomeyourvillains.com  If you haven't yet, get my first book Confidence Creator Show Notes:  Ever wonder if you're a TRUE perfectionist? Perfectionism can show itself in MANY different ways! No matter what you look like or where you come from, you deserve to feel comfortable going after what you want, passionately. In order to become the BEST version of yourself, you have to turn inward and get in touch with your true self. Katherine Morgan Schafler, psychotherapist and author joins me to detail the 5 different types of perfectionists, and explain which category we may fall in... Take the first step to discover if your perfectionism is healthy, and ask yourself, WHY am I striving for these goals?  About The Guest: Katherine Morgan Schafler is a psychotherapist, writer, speaker, and the former onsite therapist at Google! She earned her Bachelor's degree in psychology at UC Berkeley before obtaining two Masters from Columbia University, one focused on clinical assessment and the other on psychological counseling. Today, Katherine works with ambitious, perfectionistic NYC women whose lives seem to be going pretty well on the outside – but privately, they're hurting.  If You Liked This Episode You Might Also Like These Episodes:  The Key To Motivating Yourself When You Aren't Feeling It, With Robin Arzon Vice President of Fitness Programming & Head Instructor At Peloton   Why Your BEST Is Yet To Come, With Heather!  The Secret To OWNING Your Power With Dalia Feldheim Founder of Uppiness & Flow Leadership Consultancy

Where are my fellow control freaks? Such an interesting and way more helpful perspective to rethink and redefine perfectionism. You know when you read a book and it's so groundbreaking and helpful, you can't help but tell all your friends, post about it? Well, I was the recipient of essentially being attacked on all sides that I needed to read this award-winning book, The Perfectionists' Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler. Katherine is a seasoned psychotherapist and former in-house therapist for Google, with a BA in psychology from Berkeley and 2 masters from Columbia University and I've got her incredibly refreshing and game-changing approach broken down today. We talk about self-punishment vs. discipline. We talk about adaptive and maladaptive perfectionism and why restoration and resting feels like failure to perfectionists - and my favorite, control vs. power. I really am super excited for you to hear it and can't wait to hear what type of perfectionist are you!Timestamps:[00:10:01] Redefining Perfectionism[00:13:14] Gender bias in language.[00:17:22] Perfectionism and power seeking.[00:23:10] Five types of perfectionism.[00:27:21] Parisian Perfectionists and Relationships.[00:31:26] Knowing your type of perfectionism and collaborating with others[00:34:10] Self-worth and self-esteem.[00:39:03] Rethinking self-punishment and discipline.[00:42:14] Emotional education and self-compassion.[00:50:07] Resisting rest and restoration[00:54:12] Restoring and emptying out.[00:58:37] The Power of Play.[01:02:07] Presence and Power.[01:07:37] Gray rocking techniqueKatherine Morgan Schafler - Guest Links:The Perfectionists Guide to Losing Control - A Path to Peace and PowerWhat kind of Perfectionist are you? Take the QuizKatherine Morgan Schafler - IGReferences mentioned:Schedule a FREE breakthrough call with me Want to take these ideas and apply them to your life? Let's do it!DOWNLOAD the free PDF - 40 Simple Ways to Add Energy To Your Day- get a quick burst of energy right now and KEEP IT!Surprisingly True Useful Fun Fact Research Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.AllisonHare.comFollow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.Schedule a FREE breakthrough call with me Want to take these ideas and apply them to your life? Let's do it!DOWNLOAD the free PDF - 40 Simple Ways to Add Energy To Your Day- get a quick burst of energy right now and KEEP IT!GET the Effectiveness Booster - Shift your priorities to what matters most in less than a minute!Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.Personal Brand - need help building yours? Schedule a call with me here and let's discuss.Feedback and Contact:: allison@allisonhare.com

Katherine Morgan Schafler reads from Elizabeth Gilbert's “Big Magic” and discusses creativity, perfectionism, and trusting yourself. We explore how we can balance striving for excellence while also letting go of control, and why we should show up for the work even when inspiration seems far off. Today's guest, Katherine Morgan Schafler, is a psychotherapist, writer, and former on-site therapist at Google. She holds degrees from UC Berkeley and Columbia University and is certified by the Association for Spirituality and Psychotherapy in New York City. Get book links and resources at http://2pageswithmbs.com and subscribe to the 2 Pages newsletter at https://2pageswithmbs.substack.com. Katherine Morgan Schafler reads two pages from Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. [reading begins at 23:48] Hear us discuss: “All people really want is a connection—to be seen, to see others, and connect.” [04:16] | “We don't understand the difference between self-worth and self-esteem.” [15:26] | “Progress is not linear; it's two steps forward, seventeen steps back.” [38:07] | “There are many right ways to do something.” [19:47] | “If we can just keep showing up day after day after day, something will bloom.” [30:04]

Did you know perfectionism isn't necessarily a bad thing? Katherine Morgan Schafler, psychotherapist and author of the book “The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control,” doesn't want you to see perfectionism as a flaw, rather – a superpower. On this week's Wellness Wednesday, Katherine shares advice on how to harness that power of perfectionism and use it to our advantage. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

After a recent bout of contending with my own perfectionism, I had a profound realization. Perhaps calling myself a recovering perfectionist is incorrect. Maybe my perfectionism isn't something that I need to fix about myself. Perhaps the work is more about recognizing when I'm disconnected from my wise self and deploying the right tools to get back on track.What if we're all just perfectly imperfect works in progress? And what would it take for us to cultivate deep self-compassion when perfectionism shows up in our lives?Today, I invite you to join me in this investigation of your perfectionism with a heart full of compassion for yourself and the messy, imperfect process we all go through.Through mental rehearsal, or cognitive priming, I'll lead you on a thought experiment designed to help you loosen your grip on perfectionism and move closer to right-sizing your effort. This journey is about understanding and supporting yourself through the messy, imperfect process we all go through. (And how we can still get great results along the way!)Listen to the full episode to hear:Defining the spectrums of perfectionism and perfectionism's  underlying “promise”Differentiating between beneficial high standards and stress-inducing patterns and behaviorsThe benefits of mentally rehearsing a potential scenarioA thought experiment to help you lower your internal bar and half-ass itLearn more about Valerie Black:The Change AgencyBecoming Power NewsletterCoachingResources:The Multidimensional Perfectionism ScaleThe Gifts of Imperfection, Brené BrownThe Perfection Trap: Embracing the Power of Good Enough, Thomas CurranThe Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power, Katherine Morgan Schafler

What if everything we've been taught about perfectionism is wrong? What if instead of fixing it or overcoming it, you could learn to wield it as a superpower? This week we're bringing back an insightful episode on the unsung advantages of perfectionism with Katherine Morgan Schafler, a distinguished psychotherapist and author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control. Katherine sheds light on how adaptive perfectionism can offer surprisingly valuable benefits, such as deep self-awareness. Katherine sits down with Jessi to share actionable strategies to transform perfectionistic tendencies into pathways for growth, resilience, and self-compassion. Whether you're dealing with your own perfectionistic behavior or seeking to understand it in others, this conversation provides essential tools and perspectives for navigating the quest for perfection. Tune in to gain practical insights from Katherine Morgan Schafler on leveraging perfectionism for positive change. Subscribe to the Hello Monday newsletter to get episodes and insights delivered straight to your inbox every Monday!

Hi, I'm Sam, and I'm a perfectionist. I used to think I wasn't a perfectionist. After all, I tend not to focus on the details, and I often leave projects undone, let alone done perfectly. Then my therapist called BS on that, and because she is not only a licensed expert but also knows me better than anyone else - well, I listened to what she had to say. Once I became aware of my version of perfectionism - which is one of FIVE kinds - I saw my tendencies everywhere. Then this year I read a book that rocked my world: The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler.  Two things: First, listen in on my conversation with Katy - a fellow perfectionist, but with different tendencies. Second, if you feel like you too might be a perfectionist, read the book. It'll make you feel seen in powerful ways - and give you the courage to adapt your version of perfectionism in healthy ways.

In this episode of Season of Stuck, Deanna and today's guest, therapist and author Katherine Morgan Schafler, take a deep dive into all things perfectionism. During their conversation, they explore how perfectionism can lead to feelings of being stuck and differentiate between adaptive and maladaptive perfectionism. Katherine also introduces five types of perfectionists and emphasizes the importance of self-compassion and seeking help for perfectionists. They also discuss the power of reframing negative narratives, embracing perfectionism as a strength, and fostering emotional understanding and support for personal growth.Tune in to learn about:Perfectionism as a complex personality trait rather than a simple flawHow perfectionism—when unchecked—can lead to a desire for control and create barriers to happinessHealthy and unhealthy perfectionism The emotional gaps perfectionists can feel between their current reality and their perceived potentialSelf-compassion as a crucial tool for overcoming the negative impacts of perfectionismThe five types of perfectionists,—and the strengths and weaknesses of eachHow perfectionists can reframe the narrative around asking for helpHow changing your internal dialogue can help you change your feelings and perceptions around perfectionismMaintaining connections with yourself ( and others!) as a way to combat feelings of being stuckHow to reframe perfectionism as a strengthThoughts from the episode:“Perfectionism is not the problem. The problem is how you respond to your perfectionism.” –Katherine Morgan SchaflerAbout Katherine Morgan Schafler:Katherine Morgan Schafler is a psychotherapist and the author of The Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control, a book that challenges the way we look at perfectionism—and how perfectionists look at themselves —by redefining what it means to be a perfectionist and embracing it as the strength it can be. Schafler's work helps people identify, understand, and work with their perfectionism in a way that works for them, not against them. Connect with Katherine Morgan Schafler:On the web:Katherine's websiteOn social media:Instagram: @katherinemorganschafler Stay connected with Season of Stuck:Want more insights on how to make your journey from stuck to unstuck? Make sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts; you can catch new episodes every Tuesday.Want to make sure you never miss an episode? Visit seasonofstuck.com to get episodes delivered to your inbox. And for even more stuck-related content, make sure to follow us on Instagram @seasonofstuck.****DISCLAIMER**** Season of Stuck is for general information only and should not be considered health, financial, or any other type of professional advice. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on Season of Stuck is not an endorsement. We do not verify the accuracy of the information that guests present. Adult language may be present. Our producer and host disclaim any liability arising out of your reliance on Season of Stuck. Please note that we may receive a commission should you choose to purchase any product or service using our website link to the products, services, and links featured on Season of Stuck and/or in related properties (including seasonofstuck.com and email communications).

Forrest explores how we can harness perfectionism's strengths without getting captured by its vulnerabilities with therapist and author Katherine Morgan Schafler. They talk about perfectionism's bad branding, and how our relationship with perfectionism can lead to it being either a superpower or a stumbling block. They discuss the different types of perfectionists, the limitations of defining perfectionism merely as a defense against criticism, and the importance of shifting our language around self-criticism. You'll learn about the difference between power and control, why self-compassion beats self-punishment, and how to keep perfectionism in check while still reaching your goals. About our Guest: Katherine is a psychotherapist, former on-site therapist at Google, and author of the recent book The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power. You can watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics: 0:00: Introduction 1:35: Defining perfectionism 6:00: Ideals, identity, and asking yourself how and why you're striving 12:40: The five types of perfectionists 21:55: Why defining perfectionism as a ‘defense against criticism' falls short 28:20: Changing our vocabulary around self-criticism 34:00: Why self-punishment doesn't work 38:10: The difference between power and control 44:40: Splitting vs. scaling, and reaching out for connection 49:10: When perfectionistic tendencies invade our relationships 54:10: The intention that drives real goals, and finding your metric for measuring success 1:07:10: Recap I am now writing on Substack, check out my work there.  Support the Podcast: We're now on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link. Sponsors Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/beingwell.  Transform your health with the ZOE Science & Nutrition podcast. Find it wherever you listen to podcasts. Trust your gut with Seed's DS-01 Daily Synbiotic. Go to Seed.com/BEINGWELL and use code 25BEINGWELL to get 25% off your first month.  OneSkin focuses on delivering more than superficial results for your skin. Get started today with 15% off using code BEINGWELL at oneskin.co.  Join over a million people using BetterHelp, the world's largest online counseling platform. Visit betterhelp.com/beingwell for 10% off your first month! Connect with the show: Subscribe on iTunes Follow Forrest on YouTube Follow us on Instagram Follow Forrest on Instagram Follow Rick on Facebook Follow Forrest on Facebook Visit Forrest's website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's episode, I'm talking with Katherine Morgan Schafler, psychotherapist and author of 'The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control - A Path to Peace and Power'.  This conversation is for anyone who has ever identified or labeled themselves as a perfectionist, in any way. It will help to remove all the shame and that comes with it and learn to wear your perfectionism as a badge of honor instead. Katherine believes that perfectionism isn't a flaw to overcome, but a gift to embrace.    Find More from Katherine:  https://www.katherinemorganschafler.com/ https://www.perfectionistsguide.com/ https://www.instagram.com/katherinemorganschafler/   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you interested in working 1:1 with me? I'm now officially a Certified Money Coach (CMC)® where I work with you to create greater balance, a higher consciousness and help you transform your relationship with money. This goal of this work is to guide you to a deeper understanding of the unconscious beliefs and patterns we carry that create stress and fear and hold us back from living the life that you want. You can book a quick 15-minute call here so I can learn more about you and your goals for the program.  I'm so excited to be able to connect with you on a deeper level and help you discover what's blocking you from living the life you really want. 

This week, Katherine Morgan Schafler, author of The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control, explores our relationship with the ideal of being a perfectionist. Morgan Schafler encourages greater self-awareness in managing perfectionism, saying it’s OK to be inspired without the expectation that we will ever achieve that goal.  Katherine Morgan Schafler. Photo courtesy of Eric Michael Pearson This episode of Life Examined with Katherine Morgan Schafler was originally broadcast May 26th, 2024

This week, Katherine Morgan Schafler, author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control, explores our relationship with the ideal of being a perfectionist. Morgan Schafler encourages greater self-awareness in managing perfectionism, saying it's OK to be inspired without the expectation that we will ever achieve that goal. 

To end the week, we'll hear from Katherine Morgan Schafler, a former on-site therapist at Google, who challenges us to change the way we look at perfectionism.

Did you know that 92% of people are affected by perfectionism in the workplace? You heard me right, 92%! Perfectionism affects your mental health, relationships, ability to advance, and you guessed, burnout. So how do you shift away from perfectionism while also maintaining your high integrity for doing things well?That's what we're talking about today with Holistic Leadership Coach Chana Ross.In this episode, you'll learn:Having open, honest, and empowering conversations about things we don't talk aboutLooking at ourselves from a holistic perspectiveHow perfectionism affects our bodyA simple way to change your healthCultivating new thoughts and beliefsFunctional versus dysfunctional perfectionismDefine what excellence looks like for you and get clear on what your values arePerfectionism, mental health, and getting support regardlessChana is a highly passionate Women's Health Advocate and Host of the "She Has the Audacity" Podcast. Renowned for her expertise in pelvic health, prenatal preparation, and the realities of parenthood, Chana is a sought-after educator and speaker who inspires her clients to take charge of their health and lifestyle. She is a true champion for high-achieving women, helping them overcome perfectionist tendencies and align with their "why" to achieve their dreams.Resources from this episodeFoundations for Getting Out of Your Head - a FREE 5-day private podcast experience. During this 5-day private podcast experience, I will cut through the noise and be your guide to breaking free from what is holding you back - your thoughts. Check out my guest interview on Chana's podcast, She has the Audacity: Embracing your true desires and trusting your instincts: Laura Aura shares her inspiring journey from graphic design to selling a thriving branding agency.Chana mentioned a book in the episode, you'll find it here: The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler.Ready to see if the way you spend your time matches your values? Download Chana's Time Audit: How To Create More Time For Yourself.Connect with Chana RossInstagram: @chanarossptPodcast: She has the AudacityWebsite: chanaross.comConnect with LauraAuraFacebook: @thatlauraauraTikTok:  @thatlauraauraInstagram: @thatlauraauraWebsite: LauraAura.comSupport the showTHANK YOU, GUTSY TRIBE!We love, love, love to read your comments, feedback, and reviews. If you haven't yet, drop us one below! Your review might even get highlighted within one of our gutsy love posts or on our website.https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/the-gutsy-podcast/id1445481970

Neurodiversity describes the idea that people experience and interact with the world around them in many different ways; there is no one "right" way of thinking, learning, and behaving, and differences are not viewed as deficits. (Harvard Health Publishing) Understanding that not everyone's brain works the same is the crux of this interview I have with Nicole Clausen, founder of Veterinary Care Logistics, an inventory management company.  You can find out more about Nicole's company, Veterinary Care Logistics at: www.vetlogic.co Book recommendations by Nicole: Here are my 3(ish) book recs: (extra one for personal/romantic relationships) "Us" by Terrence Real "The Mountain is You" or "This is How You Heal" by Brianna Wiest "Unmasking Autism" by Devon Price "The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control" by Katherine Morgan Schafler

We're all about the exhilaration of the beginning and the thrill of the finish line, but what about the middle? It can be a scary (and lonely!) place for creative work. Join best selling author, knitwear designer and creative coach, Marie Greene, for this week's creative pep talk on how to survive the messy middle of the creative process. Mentioned in this episode:The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler - click here to find the book on Amazon (affiliate link)Support the showUntil next time, friend. You've got this!Love this podcast and want even more? Become a subscriber and have access to bonus episodes! Visit my website here. I'm on Facebook here. © 2024 Olive Knits LLC. Olive Knits™, Knit Camp®, and the logo are trademarks of Olive Knits LLC and may not be used without prior written permission. All Rights Reserved.

Welcome to a new series I've created called Sunday Stillness. A few minutes each week to meditate on one idea that will bring us closer to who we want to become. This episode was inspired entirely by an IG reel from Katherine Morgan Schafler, author of The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control (one of my favorite books of 2023 and a 2024 selection for the Secret Stuff Book Club). Click here to watch the original reel. If you enjoy this Sunday Stillness episode, please share it with friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to a new series I've created called Sunday Stillness. A few minutes each week to meditate on one idea that will bring us closer to who we want to become. This episode was inspired entirely by an IG reel from Katherine Morgan Schafler, author of The Perfectionist's Guide To Losing Control (one of my favorite books of 2023 and a 2024 selection for the Secret Stuff Book Club). Click here to watch the original reel. If you enjoy this Sunday Stillness episode, please share it with friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy Women's History Month 2024! What does it mean to be a perfectionist? Is it a blessing or a curse? How does it affect your relationship with money, yourself, and others? In this special solo episode, Kiersten chats with Katherine Morgan Schafler, a psychotherapist and coach who helps people overcome perfectionism and live authentically. They talk about the different kinds of perfectionism, how social and historical forces shape them, and how they can be harnessed for good or bad. They also dig into the role of money in self-actualization, the link between self-worth and spending, and how to set financial goals that align with your values. Finally, they share some tips on how to break free from the cycle of self-punishment and embrace your flaws and strengths. In this episode, Katherine Morgan Schafler shares her insights on punishment vs. discipline, defining ‘enough,' and balancing values and legacy.Links: Buy Katherine's book The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power Follow Katherine on Instagram or visit her website Here are some key takeaways from this conversation:Perfectionism is not a monolithic trait. It can be adaptive or maladaptive, depending on how it affects your well-being and performance Money can be a tool for empowerment, but it can also be a source of anxiety and insecurity. It's important to understand how your self-worth influences your spending habits and financial decisions Setting good financial goals requires knowing what you value and what you appreciate. It also requires being honest with yourself about what you need and what you want.Self-worth is not the same as self-esteem. Self-worth is about what you believe you deserve, while self-esteem is about what you think about yourself. Both are influenced by your social and cultural context.Breaking the cycle of self-punishment involves meeting yourself with compassion and understanding. Punishment only teaches us to avoid the source of punishment, while discipline seeks to extinguish negative behaviors through the promotion of positive behaviors.To define ‘enough,' start by identifying what is not enough for you and then determine what is enough on a survival level and what makes you feel good. Then, compare your current situation with your ideal situation and see what gaps you need to fill.Balancing values and legacy involves understanding what you value, how those values show up in your daily life, and what you do not value. It also involves thinking about how you want to be remembered and what impact you want to have on the world. Connect with Julien and Kiersten on our website, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.Join our email list to get updates from us, opportunities for discounts, freebies and a quick rundown on the relevant financial and career news impacting your life. Get our book Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away, named 2023 best overall book about investing by Business Insider and one of the best personal finance books by ForbesIf you would like to learn more about investing, check out our newest class, Making Money Grow

In what areas of your life are you a perfectionist? Did you know that that could be a good thing? Katherine Morgan Schafler is the author of the popular book called The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control. In this Podcast Mixer episode with a live Q&A, you will learn the different types of perfectionism, the intersection of perfectionism and creativity, Katherine's journey to writing this book, and so much more. Excited for you to build and grow your Portfolio Career!This episode with notes is available on my websiteConnect with Katherine on InstagramConnect with David on Instagram

The next installment of our advice series, where every month, I'll be joined by a new special guest. This month I'm so excited to welcome Kate Van Horn to the podcast to answer your questions. How she moved through her anxiety, PTSD, and eating disorder and came out stronger than ever How to rebuild the ability to trust How to get over a bad body image day A tip for morning routines that will change your entire day Tons of helpful tools for managing anxiety How to build your intuition muscle How to incorporate more play into your life How to forgive your parents for your childhood How to switch careers in your 30s What to do when you're invited to a bachelorette that's expensive or you just don't want to go but you don't want to make the bride mad How to know when and if to break up with your partner And so much more! For more from Kate, you can find her on Instagram @kate.van.horn or her website www.katevanhorn.com. You can find her brand new book The Inner Tarot: A Modern Approach to Self-Compassion and Empowered Healing Using the Tarot wherever books are sold. To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order my new book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  This episode is sponsored by: Branch Basics: save 15% and get free shipping on your Starter Kit when you use code LIZMOODY at www.branchbasics.com. Seed: go to seed.com/lizmoody and use code LIZMOODY for 25% off your first month. Osea: get 10% off your first order at oseamalibu.com with code LIZMOODY10. Needed: go to thisisneeded.com and use code LIZMOODY for 20% off your first month of Needed products.  Cymbiotika: use code LIZMOODY on cymbiotika.com to get 15% off plus free shipping on subscription orders. Previous episodes referred to in this episode: Ask The Doctor: Debunking Skin Care Myths—Slugging, Face Shaving, Red Light, Collagen, Ice Rollers & More with Dr. Whitney Bowe How To Figure Out Your Life's Purpose, Improve Your Concentration, & Develop More Willpower with Dandapani How To Stop Stressing Over Balance, Perfection, & Timelines + ACTUALLY Enjoy Your Life with Katherine Morgan Schafler, LMHC The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast.

Where are my fellow control freaks? Such an interesting and way more helpful perspective to rethink and redefine perfectionism. You know when you read a book and it's so groundbreaking and helpful, you can't help but tell all your friends, post about it? Well, I was the recipient of essentially being attacked on all sides that I needed to read this award-winning book, The Perfectionists' Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler. Katherine is a seasoned psychotherapist and former in-house therapist for Google, with a BA in psychology from Berkeley and 2 masters from Columbia University and I've got her incredibly refreshing and game-changing approach broken down today. We talk about self-punishment vs. discipline. We talk about adaptive and maladaptive perfectionism and why restoration and resting feels like failure to perfectionists - and my favorite, control vs. power. I really am super excited for you to hear it and can't wait to hear what type of perfectionist are you!Timestamps:[00:10:01] Redefining Perfectionism[00:13:14] Gender bias in language.[00:17:22] Perfectionism and power seeking.[00:23:10] Five types of perfectionism.[00:27:21] Parisian Perfectionists and Relationships.[00:31:26] Knowing your type of perfectionism and collaborating with others[00:34:10] Self-worth and self-esteem.[00:39:03] Rethinking self-punishment and discipline.[00:42:14] Emotional education and self-compassion.[00:50:07] Resisting rest and restoration[00:54:12] Restoring and emptying out.[00:58:37] The Power of Play.[01:02:07] Presence and Power.[01:07:37] Gray rocking techniqueKatherine Morgan Schafler - Guest Links:The Perfectionists Guide to Losing Control - A Path to Peace and PowerWhat kind of Perfectionist are you? Take the QuizKatherine Morgan Schafler - IGReferences mentioned:Schedule a FREE breakthrough call with me Want to take these ideas and apply them to your life? Let's do it!DOWNLOAD the free PDF - 40 Simple Ways to Add Energy To Your Day- get a quick burst of energy right now and KEEP IT!Surprisingly True Useful Fun Fact Research Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.AllisonHare.comFollow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.Schedule a FREE breakthrough call with me Want to take these ideas and apply them to your life? Let's do it!DOWNLOAD the free PDF - 40 Simple Ways to Add Energy To Your Day- get a quick burst of energy right now and KEEP IT!GET the Effectiveness Booster - Shift your priorities to what matters most in less than a minute!Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.Personal Brand - need help building yours? Schedule a call with me here and let's discuss.Feedback and Contact:: allison@allisonhare.com

If you see yourself as a perfectionist, learn how to get your perfectionism to work for you and not against you.  Our guest is psychotherapist Katherine Morgan Schafler, who is a former on-site therapist at Google and the author of the new book,  "THE PERFECTIONIST'S GUIDE TO LOSING CONTROL:  A Path to Peace and Power".

Did you know that there are different types of perfectionists each with their own distinct perfectionistic ideals and specific personality assets and liabilities? In today's episode of The Change Lab, psychotherapist and author, Katherine Morgan Schafler, gives us a new and nuanced perspective on perfectionism. Join Katherine and Sasha as they discuss Katherine's groundbreaking and original book, The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power. Show Notes:To learn more about Katherine Morgan Schafler and her book, head to her website www.perfectionistsguide.com.For more, follow Dr. Heinz on Instagram, or visit drsashaheinz.com/podcastProduced by Peoples Media Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's one of my favorite conversations of the year!  I love books. I love lists. I love the end of the year. So naturally I LOVE the annual Best Books of the Year conversation with my real life book club friends Yasmin Dunn and Stephanie Newman-Smith.  We're back together for our SIXTH annual Best Books of the Year conversation. This one felt a little different from year's past because in 2023 we chose to do a mid-year episode called Best Books of the Year (So Far). In Episode 179 from back in June, we talked about many of the big, buzzy books that released in the first half of the year, which let us share other favorites in this year-end conversation.  LISTEN TO US DISCUSS THE BOOKS WE DIDN'T LIKE IN 2023 ON PATREON I hope you enjoy this monster episode!  Follow @yasminheartsbooks on IG Follow @stephanie_hypen on IG   FULL SHOW NOTES ARE HERE   SPONSORS: Lume // Go to LumeDeodorant.com and use code YOU for 40% off your starter pack BetterHelp // Go to BetterHelp.com/YOU for 10% off your first month   JOIN THE SECRET STUFF BOOK CLUB HERE   Laura's Best Books of the Year: Shark Heart by Emily Habeck  We All Want Impossible Things by Catherine Newman  Spare by Prince Harry  The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler  Search by Michelle Huneven  Happiness Falls by Angie Kim  How To Stay Married: The Most Insane Love Story Ever Told by Harrison Scott Key Hey Hun: Sales, Sisterhood, Supremacy, and Other Lies Behind Multi-Level Marketing by Emily Lynn Paulson  How to Sell a Haunted House by Grady Hendrix    Yasmin's Best Books of the Year: You Could Make This Place Beautiful by Maggie Smith  Holly by Stephen King  The Center by Ayesha Manazir Siddiqi  Hot Springs Drive by Lindsay Hunter    Stephanie's Best Books of the Year: Hello Beautiful by Ann Napolitano (mutual best pick)  The Heaven & Earth Grocery Store by James McBride  Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett  The Humans by Matt Haig    Also Mentioned: Smartest Person in the Room series with Yasmin Little Women by Louisa May Alcott  Dear Edward by Ann Napolitano  Friends, Lovers and the Big, Terrible Thing by Matthew Perry  The Color of Water by James McBride  Deacon King Kong by James McBride  Friday Black by Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah  Mr. Mercedes by Stephen King  Misery by Stephen King  It by Stephen King  11.22.63 by Stephen King   Thursday Murder Club Series by Richard Osman  American Gods by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett  Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro  The Best Minds by Jonathan Rosen    SUBSCRIBE to 10 Things To Tell You so you never miss an episode! CLICK HERE for episode show notes FOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on Instagram FOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on Facebook JOIN the 10 Things To Tell You Connection Group SIGN UP for episode emails, links, and show notes JOIN the Secret Stuff Patreon BUY THE BOOK: Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First. by Laura Tremaine BUY THE BOOK: The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needs by Laura Tremaine  

Perfectionism in motherhood can be harmful, keeping moms held to unrealistic standards. But is there such a thing as healthy perfectionism? Today, I'm joined by psychotherapist Katherine Shafler to discuss how to reframe our thinking on perfectionism and harness the tendency without the negative side.Show Notes: https://bit.ly/40v0iD4 Book a Free 15 min Consult with a mom therapist: momwell.com Follow Momwell on Instagram: instagram.com/momwell Sign up for our weekly VIP Newsletter: momwell.com/newsletter Register for one of our popular workshops and courses: momwell.com/shop  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Perfectionism in motherhood can be harmful, keeping moms held to unrealistic standards. But is there such a thing as healthy perfectionism?  Today, I'm joined by psychotherapist Katherine Shafler to discuss how to reframe our thinking on perfectionism and harness the tendency without the negative side. Show Notes: https://bit.ly/40v0iD4  Book a Free 15 min Consult with a mom therapist: momwell.com  Follow Momwell on Instagram: instagram.com/momwell  Sign up for our weekly VIP Newsletter: momwell.com/newsletter  Register for one of our popular workshops and courses: momwell.com/shop  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When I received an email about this new book, I knew I wanted to talk with its author. The book? The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control. The author? Katherine Morgan Schafler, a psychotherapist and former on-site therapist at Google. She's worked with many high-achieving women who are told they need to find "balance" - as if they're doing something wrong! Katherine tells us instead that what's important is to learn about the five different types of constructive perfectionism so that it can work for you! As she says, "You can dare to want more without feeling greedy or ungrateful!" She's an eloquent writer and speaker and it was wonderful having her on SelfWork as she helps these women exchange superficial control for real power.  Hope you'll listen in and learn! Advertisers' Links: Have you been putting off getting help? BetterHelp, the #1 online therapy provider, has a special offer for you now! Vital Links: The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power My TEDx talk that today has earned 100,000 views! You can hear more about this and many other topics by listening to my podcast, The Selfwork Podcast.  Subscribe to my website and receive my weekly newsletter including a blog post and podcast! If you'd like to join my FaceBook closed group, then click here and answer the membership questions! Welcome! My book entitled Perfectly Hidden Depression is available here! Its message is specifically for those with a struggle with strong perfectionism which acts to mask underlying emotional pain. But the many self-help techniques described can be used by everyone who chooses to begin to address emotions long hidden away that are clouding and sabotaging your current life. And it's available in paperback, eBook or as an audiobook! And there's another way to send me a message! You can record by clicking below and ask your question or make a comment. You'll have 90 seconds to do so and that time goes quickly. By recording, you're giving SelfWork (and me) permission to use your voice on the podcast. I'll look forward to hearing from you! Episode Transcript: Speaker 1: Dr. Margaret This is SelfWork. And I'm Dr. Margaret Rutherford At Self-Work. We'll discuss psychological and emotional issues common in today's world and what to do about them. I'm Dr. Margaret, and Self-Work is a podcast dedicated to you, taking just a few minutes today for your own selfwork. Hello and welcome or welcome back to SelfWork. I'm Dr. Margaret Rutherford. I started this podcast now, almost seven years ago, to extend the walls of my practice to many of you who've already been in therapy and very interested in psychological and mental issues, emotional issues, to those of you who might have just been diagnosed with something and you're looking for answers. And also to a third group of you that might be a little skeptical about the whole mental health treatment thing. And even admitting to someone that you need help, that's a step in and of itself. So listening to a podcast, it's a real safe way to do that, right? Welcome to all of you. Y'all all know that I've written a book called Perfectly Hidden Depression, where we need to look at perfectionism as it serves as a camouflage for really a lot of inner struggle, despair, loneliness, and even sometimes suicidal thinking. So I was very interested to see a book that's come out talking more about the positive aspects of perfectionism, what I would term constructive perfectionism rather than destructive perfectionism. So there's a new book by Katherine Morgan Schafler called The Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control. And she says, you know, you don't have to stop being a perfectionist to be healthy. She says, for women who are sick of being given the generic advice that they just need to find balance, her new approach has arrived, and she's categorized these constructive perfectionists in five ways: classic, intense, Parisian, messy or procrastinator. Which one could you be? As you identify your unique perfectionist profile, you'll learn how to manage each form of perfectionism to work for you, not against you. Beyond managing, you'll learn how to embrace and even enjoy your perfectionism. Yes, enjoy. This book is elegantly written. I had to comment at the very beginning of the interview. I think it's one of the best books, at least self-help books that I've ever read, including my own. So Catherine's book is a love letter to the ambitious, high achieving full of life clients who have filled the author's private practice and who changed her life. Ultimately, her book will show you how to make the single greatest trade you'll ever make in your life, which is to exchange superficial control for real power, is what she says. So I was very interested to talk with Katherine, and we talked a few weeks ago, and that's our episode for today, Katherine Morgan Schafler. So this episode is sponsored once again by Better Help, because when you are ready to ask for help, maybe that will be the venue that you turn to because it is so easy, affordable for many, and very, very conducive to whatever lifestyle you are living. So let's hear from Better Help. BetterHelp Ad: I recently heard a fascinating reframe for the idea of asking for help. Maybe you view asking for help as something someone does who's falling apart or who isn't strong. So consider this. What if asking for help means that you won't let anything get in your way of solving an issue, finding out an answer or discovering a better direction? Asking for help is much more about your determination to recognize what needs your attention, or what is getting in your way of having the life you want better help. The number one online therapy provider makes reaching out about as easy as it can get. Within 48 hours, you'll have a professional licensed therapist with whom you can text, email, or talk with to guide you, and you're not having to comb through therapist websites or drive to appointments. It's convenient, inexpensive, and readily available. Now, you can find a therapist that fits your needs with better help. And if you use the code or link Better help.com/selfwork, you get 10% off your first month of sessions. So just do it. You'll be glad you did. That. Link again is better help.com/selfwork to get 10% off your first month of services. And now I want to introduce you to Catherine Morgan Schaeffler, the author of The Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control. Interview: Speaker 1: Dr. Margaret Catherine, I I, I was reading your book and, and I will tell you that I, I think you're one of the most eloquent writers that I've ever interviewed and I've interviewed a bunch. Speaker 2: Katherine Schafler Wow, thank you so much. Speaker 1: The way you use language, the way you approach ideas and the way you get them across is really, it makes the book not only very compelling, but it's it's just a pleasure to read. It's, it's a, it's the, it's very evocative and, and I just so enjoyed the way you think and the way you put things. So the process of the book was really good, I thought. 2: Thank you. That is so flattering. I will take that. Thank you so much. 1: Oh, good. So tell SelfWork listeners a little bit about you, who you are, how you get, you know, how you got to be an author, all that kind of thing. 2: Sure. So my name's Katherine Morgan Schafler. I live in New York City, and I'm a psychotherapist and, and I, I think I always secretly wanted to write, but it was never in the forefront of my mind because I really do love being a therapist and, and my private practice was the soul of my work and still is. But I just noticed so many patterns as, as I know you have, because I've read your book as well, which is also fantastic. It was hooked on that intro story, which is every therapist's worst nightmare of Natalie and everything. Anyway, I digress. So, you know, when it is your job to listen to the most intimate pieces of someone's life, unfiltered, uncut and totally honest, that there's something special and sacred about that. And you kind of have your pulse on the zeitgeist in the way that other professions don't necessarily allow. And for me, recognizing patterns across so many clinical settings, across so many de demographics, culturally, socioeconomically, and in all these kinds of ways, really compelled me to contain it somewhere. Mm-Hmm. , hence the book. Mm-Hmm. . So I wrote The Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control, A Path to Peace and Power, because that's, I noticed, universal. 1: That's my cue to show it. . Yeah. , yes. 2: So I, I really noticed universal plates around perfectionism that we are not talking about in commercial wellness. And not only are we not talking about them, we are talking about perfectionism. Like we fully understand it, like we know what it is, and you know, it's agreed upon in the research world that we're in the infancy of understanding this construct and that we don't even have a, an a formal clinical definition for so much of this stuff. And that really... 1: I noticed you call it an innate natural human tendency mm-hmm.Yeah. I thought that was interesting. 2: Yeah. You know, I think that it is natural and innate, and natural does not mean immediately healthy. Mm-Hmm. mm-hmm. , you know, like anger is also natural. That doesn't mean that anger is always healthy, but it also doesn't mean that it's not that there aren't wonderful expressions of that impulse within us. And that if we can just harness our natural innate human impulses instead of trying to eradicate them and get rid of them, which doesn't work, it will never work. I'm glad it will never work, because perfectionism is so powerful. Anger is such a powerful tool. All these things that we think are bad. Mm-Hmm. , they're not bad. They're powerful. 1: Yes. And they can be used in that way. You know, I, of course, I was thinking about my own writing and, and research and work when I was reading your book, and I really loved the juxtaposition of, of what your focus was and what my focus was. Which your focus is much more to a look at the, the beauty of perfectionism and celebrate it in many ways. And, and yet also look for when it's becoming something that, you know, like you said, all the five different types have their pros and their cons. Right. There are things that are great about them, and then there's things that are a little more vulnerable about them. Whereas my work is more talking about trauma and perfectionism and how that can, how perfectionism can at times, certainly not all the time be a camouflage of some kind, something that someone learns how to do in order to cope with the trauma that they have. So they mm-hmm. Anyway, enough about that. But I, I, I so enjoyed looking at this other side of it. And how did you come up with the five different categories? I mean, is that something just observation, clinical observation? 2: Yes. Well, first, let me say, I really resonate with what you just said, because my first job in this profession was working in residential treatment with kids in LA who had been severely abused and neglected so much so that they were no longer even in foster care because their family of origin had in some way not been fit to parent. And then they were abused and neglected in foster care, and then they became what was called wards of the state. Yes. And I saw so much perfectionism, maladaptive perfectionism of just shape shifting, of being around an adult and immediately trying to assess, "Okay, who do they want me to be?" Speaker 2: Who does this grownup want me to be? How do I, how do I best be whatever they need me to be right in this moment to stay safe. 1: Yeah. It's like a supervisor told me once, if you go into someone's home where you meet a family, always pay attention to the child that is quiet in the corner. . 2: Yeah. I put that in my book too. I had, I had similar advice from my supervisor who said, really specifically, pay attention to the children who are behaving perfectly. And I think that's a common adage in training and therapy, because, you know, kids have natural frenetic energy so often, and they're a little bit all over the place, and, and that's a good thing. But when they are trying to manage so much, they you know, fade themselves out. But to return to your original question, I came up with the five types because I was really trying to understand a phenomenon that I was noticing, which was, you know, I, I worked onsite at Google. I had a private practice on Wall Street. I worked in a rehab in Brooklyn in all these different, you've been , all these different settings. And I was able to take a client from my rehab and a client from my private practice on Wall Street and on, and see that they were both going to respond similarly to a certain situation. And those kinds of things started happening all the time. And I'm like, what is the tie that binds this true? Love it. And I thought for a moment, like, is it attachment theory? Is it this, is it what is happening? And how come I can predict with reasonable reliability, how people are going to respond to certain, you know, stimulus? And that's where the five types came from. I said, oh, it's perfectionism that is manifesting here, and it manifests in a patterned way. 1: So the, just to let the listeners know, the five types are: classic, procrastinator, messy, intense, and Parisian. And having lived in Paris for a little while I thought was, that one was very interesting. Oh, I think the French would love that they were some type of perfectness. 2: Well, you know, I I came up with that title because, you know, the, the beauty aesthetic for French women is so, so understated and simple in the sense that like, simplicity is the greatest form of sophistication. Like, it's very much signaling a a subtext of I'm not trying too hard. And the Parisian perfectionist really is embarrassed about other people knowing how much they care about something. Oh, that's, you know, and so they wanna be a little bit effortlessly cool. I'm not trying too hard. I don't care if you like me or not. Speaker 2: Meanwhile, they care a lot. And as I talk about in the book, that's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing to prioritize connection and relationships and understand the power of those connections that you have. And that is what Parisian perfectionists do. Every perfectionist is chasing an ideal mm-hmm. . And we think of perfectionism in a one dimensional way, as in behavioral perfectionism. So I want everything to be organized and in its place when actually perfectionism is kaleidoscopic. And so perfectionism can show up interpersonally, I want to be perfectly liked by you, or perfectly understood, or I wanna be the perfect mother, the perfect whatever. And that doesn't look like I wanna act and say the perfect things. It's so much more nuanced. That's why I love this subject, because the person is holding in their mind a pie chart of what the perfect mother, let's say, okay. Speaker 2: Behaves like. Right. It's not that she never screams, it's that when she loses her cool, it's only to a certain amount. And then she's immediately able to make successful repair attempts and she's continually, you know, improving and getting better. And, you know, she's, and so when we think of perfect, we think of happy all the time, or never making a mistake, but perfectionism is actually very individualized. Mm-Hmm. , and it's based on the own person's sense of what is, you know, this shows up another example of emotional perfectionism showing up is like, what is the perfect way to feel when you bump into an X ? Right? So it's like, I wanna feel 5% nostalgic, 20% just indifferent, and I don't care. And like 50% confident, empowered, and, you know, I wanna forget about it 10 minutes later. And so, you know, that's where we get to the nuance of perfectionism is those, those little pie charts that we walk around with our minds. 1: I, I think that's great. And, and I'm not sure what I would do if my heads, I don't think it would be perfect, whatever it was. 2: We don't wanna find out. We don't need to find out. Right. that can remain a mystery for us all. 1: It seems more targeted or focused on women. You talk a lot about misogyny, and I totally agree with you. And, and yet how would men be? 2: You know, you're the first person to ask me that question, and I've done so many podcasts. Thank you for asking that, because this is something I wanna talk more about. Unfortunately, like everything can't fit in a book, but perfectionism in men, typically, and I, you know, this is like a heteronormative version of perfectionism in men, typically shows up in like, the perfect response for a man is to be strong, to not cry, to know what to do, and to be able to pretty immediately execute on those actions. Speaker 2: Right? So there's no allowance for inaction. There's no allowance for more feminine qualities of, you know, I need comfort, I need guidance, I need counsel, I need love, I need all the things that men need, but feel unable to either access or ask for, or even recognizing themselves that they need because we've so polarized what it means to be a man and a woman in this, in this ridiculous way that we all know intellectually. But when we are in that position of, of feeling in need, you know, it's hard to be able to operate with a broadened perspective on all that stuff. 1: I was talking to one of my own clients yesterday about asking for help, and I quoted your quote . Hmm. He said, asking for help is refusal to give up. And that's how I frame it. I loved that. So anyway, again, there are lots of little, no, not so little just very noteworthy and memorable.Is that a word? Memorable, things things, quotes in your book. 2: Well, I'm glad that we're including men 'cause people have asked me that question too. And, and what I've noticed and I, I certainly have men, many men come to mind that I've worked with that Right. Fit into this rubric. So, I mean, I'm sure you've noticed the difference between what happens when men cry in front of you in a session, for example. Right. I mean, it's always vulnerable when clients go there. They're meaning like a very emotionally like live wire place when men do it. There, there is like a palpable sense of shame in the room, you know, of like, oh, I am really out of control right now. I am really losing it. Mm-Hmm. . 1: Yeah. I, I I love to say to folks, I think tears are about intensity, not weakness. 2: Mm. I like that reframe. We believe. 1: So one of the things that I appreciated so much about your book is that you spend several chapters on what you can do about it, is what I say on SelfWork all time. What can you do about it? Yeah. And I wanna get there, but before I do, I think there were really in this kind of sense of celebrating, but also trying to understand what the underbelly of perfectionism is. You, you said there are two guiding questions mm-hmm. , how am I striving and why am I striving? Can you talk about that a little bit? 2: Sure. So, you know, mental health and being healthy is not like a coordinate that you just plant your flag in and say, I've arrived. I'm healthy now. And healthy versions of perfectionism and unhealthy versions, like everybody always wants to know, am I healthy, perfectionist or not? And I'm like, let me kill the suspense. You're both, I'm both, anyone who's a perfectionist is both Exactly. Mm-Hmm. . And so I encourage people to think of it on a spectrum, right? And so in instead of a categorical model of I am or am not, the questions of how and why help you really be a little more thoughtful about your level of awareness. So the how it am it skin, it's that, right? Exactly. Exactly. And so the how is like, how am I striving? Am I striving in a way that is hurting me, that is burning me out, that is exploiting people around me, that is, you know, costing me something that I value my integrity, you know, my health, my relationships with my family, whatever it is that's unhealthy perfectionism, maladaptive perfectionism. Conversely, am I striving in a way that makes me feel like more of myself, that helps me to feel alive, that increases my curiosity, that really energizes me and also, you know, tires me out because this is work, you know, but it tires me out in a way that feels satisfying, right? That's healthy adaptive perfectionism. And the why am I striving is like, why am I trying to pursue the thing that I am in pursuit of? Is it because I think achieving that thing is going to enable me to then feel a certain way that once I, once I get my doctorate, then I can feel smart or know that I'm smart. Or once I get married, then I can feel like a grownup or lovable or legit or, you know, is it gonna certify my belonging in some way? Are you trying to get a ticket of admission into some club mm-hmm. , or that's that's, that's unhealthy perfectionism? Or am I striving because it feels so good in the most, in the deepest way to find a pursuit worthy of a lifetime of striving, right. 1: And it's a process, it's a, yeah, you're enjoying the whole nine yards from A to z I mean, you may be tired when you get to Z but it's something that is, like you say, is feeding you at the same time that you are, that you are putting out that kind of energy and determination. 2: Yes, thank you. That's a great point. There's a level of reciprocation of energy, whereas when it's maladaptive and unhealthy, it feels like just hemorrhaging energy, just like, you know, such a cost. And so this most simple example is when people try to look their best, right? Healthy perfectionists might want to, some perfectionists don't really care about the way that they present, but if you're in a healthy place and you do care about the way that you present, you might decide to present, you know, as your best to look your best because you feel your best on the inside. And you wanna animate that and celebrate that and share that and let people know that. Whereas if you are in a maladaptive space, you do the exact same behavior, right. You're looking your best, but you're doing that because you already feel like you're at such a deficit and you already feel unworthy. So the thinking is, I better look my best because I'm already coming to this meeting, this marriage, this whatever it is from a place of lack. And so I need to compensate for that somehow. So I'm gonna, you know, try to compensate by looking my best. So it's very . Yeah. I mean, it's what you're talking about in your book of it's hidden only, you know? Mm-Hmm. only, you know, whether you are focused on looking your best because you know, you truly feel that inside and you wanna animate that mm-hmm. or because you feel a void inside and you wanna try to fill that. 1: I love that term "animate." I think that is very 'cause it does feel as if you are Disney your life in some ways. 'cause You want to, you're trying to, you know, Gordon Flett says, "The better I do, the better I must do."  2: And so it's just this constant cycle of, of of animating that, you know that way you want to seem Yeah, yeah, yeah. In destructive perfectionism. 1: Right. I love those two questions. Help me understand, because I, I got puzzled a little bit about, you talk about balance in a negative way mm-hmm. and I, I understood it. In many ways, it's, you, you know, you can't have it all. You, you just, you know, that's just not gonna happen. But you, you talk about balance is actually an energetic equilibrium. There's another one of those phrases that I loved, and because you've become, you've become being good at being busy. So can you sure. Yeah. 2: So that a little bit for us, yeah. Balance is a wonderful pursuit in its original definition, which is energetic equilibrium. Mm-Hmm. right. Balance in its, yeah. You know, original form is about how you feel on the inside. Right. Balance as we talk about it in commercial wellness has become a, about being good at being busy mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And so we've really lost the inside of what balance means and we're operating with a shell casing. Yeah, that's an excellent point. Yeah. And so, you know, the people that are genuinely have found this sweet spot of their energetic equilibrium on the outside, they look like the opposite of balanced. You know, they're not able to juggle any task you throw at them. And, and they're not, you know, perfectly moving through their day with all of the, you know, it's not about that. And so it, that section was about the implicit sort of wild goose chase that we send women on, which is, you know what, you know what your problem is, you are not balanced enough. Yeah. Let me help you to be balanced. Do this, say this mantra in the morning and buy this like Instapot so that you can make quinoa, , and you know get this app that's gonna help you to learn French, because balanced people are really cultured and travel enough and all this stuff. And it's like, just becomes another another achievement. You must, but now I must achieve balance. Yeah. And you know, I talk about it in the book, like when we were all young girls, we were told that the story that a prince was gonna come and rescue us, right? And that if we just make the most out of being trapped or kidnapped or, you know, being an orphan or whatever travesty that we're in and do what is good and virtuous, then one day the prince will come and save us and we will live as this story goes happily ever after. And now as adult women, we are being sold that same exact story. And the prince has been replaced by this idea of balance that is so superficial, it's not real, and it never arrives. It's like, balance is always, oh, after the holidays I'll, I'll find balance. Oh, this is such a stressful week at work. I can't wait till Saturday. I'm gonna, you know, what I'm gonna have, get level set on Saturday. And then it's always in the future. And it never comes. And, and we don't notice that it never comes because as women, we are too busy blaming ourselves for it's delay. And it is not our fault. The reason that we never come, that it never comes is because this fake notion of balance is not real. It's just an idea. It's not real. Mm-Hmm. . 1: Yeah. It's a really intriguing thought. And I, I think it, it certainly I'm glad you said it and brought it up in the conversation in your book. 'Cause I, I think it's, it's something that maybe people, as you say, have swallowed a this com. 2: I used the term commercial a few minutes ago, this commercial version of balance. And, you know, you see people meditating on commercials and you know, making sure they take their, you know, all their medicine 'cause another medicine is going to fix that. Right? So medicine and yoga pants, the right outfit, , and a quick vodka martini perhaps. Oh, that too. Sure. 1: You said there are 10 changes in thinking that you can have and then 10 changes in your behaviors. So I would, I would love for you to just pick one of those maybe that you don't get to talk about very much. Mm-Hmm. , I just wrote a few of them down. Counterfactual thinking Maintenance and is triumph, difficulty versus challenge. And what I can't read my own handwriting, the getting connected Simple isn't easy, which I loved that one. Mm-Hmm. And then some of the behaviors are restoration, reframe, explain, and express. Do less than, do more. Those are just a few that I wrote down. But what do you not get to talk about that you'd like to talk about? 2: Oh, thank you for that. So I think strike when the iron is cold. Like one of my favorite strategies it's a phrase that comes from the Dr. Irvin Yalom who is, you know, a celebrated psychologist and writer. And the idea here is that the best time to address a conflict or something that is really challenging to you is not when the iron is hot. It's not in the moment that you're in the conflict, right? It's when the conflict and you have some distance between themselves. So the strategy that, you know, the way I applied it in the book is like, the best time to work on your maladaptive perfectionism is when it's not showing up. Yes. For you. It's when you're in a great space. Because when you're in a healthy space, that's when you feel most solutions oriented. That's when you feel confident enough to ask for help. That's when you feel, you know, that you have the most energy to maybe set or adjust a routine such that you are able to encounter, you know, your deepest self every day or your goals or whatever it is that you, you know, if you're anything like me can lose sight of really easily, you know, I have to remind myself of like my basic values every day just because otherwise we get so distracted and so striking when the iron is, is cold applied outside of managing perfectionism might look like, let's say you and your partner have a real hot button issue going on. Mm-Hmm. the time to talk about that is when you are feeling very connected to that person. Exactly. And when, when you and that person are laughing, you're having a good time, you feel safe together. And that's when you wanna say, listen, I, I've been thinking about something that I'd like to have a conversation about. It's important to me. Do you have time? Mm-Hmm. And energy to listen to that right now? Or are you up for that right now? Mm-Hmm. and the person will probably be able to receive that versus, you know, let's just say for argument's sake, the, the issue is one, you know, one person comes home late and they don't say that they're coming home late and the other person feels dismissed and disrespected and blah, blah, blah. Okay. So striking when the iron is hot would look like noticing it's seven o'clock. My partner said they would be home at, at 6 45, 0, 15 minutes. You're building resentment, you're, you're, you know, you're just having an argument in your head and then seven 12 rolls by and your partner comes home and you're just like, why didn't you tell me? We have talked about this. I wanna talk about this right now. You either respect me or you don't. And you just engage in this very unproductive back and forth, which creates immediate defensiveness. Nobody feels really safe and nobody feels open. There's, there's such a tiny, if not invisible or, or not even invisible, but just like doesn't exist opportunity for solution in those moments. You're just doing damage control at that point. Sure. Of course. 1: Strike when the iron is cold. That's a great, great way of putting it. And I've never heard it before. So that's that's, that's another one that will stick with me. I have sneaking suspicion. And then again, some of your behavioral suggestions are also really, really good. Which one do you not get to talk about ? Well so I mean, I think that if people understood that asking for help looks like not just asking for emotional help, that's actually a reframe of of perspective. 2: It's not one of the behavioral strategies, but I think it applies to behavioral strategies. Because if we're talking about the behavior of asking for help, being able to understand that, so often we don't ask for help because we think of my, of help in this myopic one dimensional way, which is asking for help means being emotionally vulnerable and having to tell someone something that feels private or scary to acknowledge. And emotional help is one version of help. I identify six in the book. There are many more. And so other versions of help include informational help. Mm-Hmm. , right? So if you, if you just started a business and you are really stressed out with the mechanics of filing your taxes under, you know, this a new P L L C as opposed to the way you've always filed your taxes in life, you are stressed and you need help and understanding, wait a minute, I don't need necessarily a therapy session about this. I need to talk to an accountant and ask them two specific questions. I need informational help. And so just being able to organize the kind of help you need and create buckets in your mind. There's tangible help, there's physical help, there's financial help, there's emotional help, there's informational help and there's community help. And again, that's just the intro class, right? , they're all different kinds of help. And so asking for help doesn't have to look like bearing your soul to somebody. You know, I, I'm thinking laughing to myself about this past weekend. I, I'm short, I'm like five three and I am too. Oh, . And I was at the grocery store and the thing I wanted Creme Fraise was way at the top. And I was standing there and trying to hold on and I thought, I'm just not gonna ask for help. And I knocked the hole, the shelf off, , it all kept rumbling down. Oh God, didn't I just ask for help? So 2: Yeah. I know there are so many moments where we don't ask for help for no good reason. And then there are other moments when we don't ask for help for reasons that we think are good, but other people, you know, they, I was just talking about this to a friend where it's like, you don't ask for help because you think you are burdening someone. Mm-Hmm. when actually asking for help is an invitation to connect and let people show up for you. And it also gives other people license to ask for help from you. Love to ask for help. Yeah. Be asked for help. It's like, oh, you see me as someone that can help you? That's very flattering to me. 1:  Right. A lot of people do. So well the, the book's title is again, the Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control, A Path to Peace and Power by Katherine Morgan Schafler. And I'm also curious, and I saw that one of your certifications was from the Association for Spirituality and Psychotherapy in New York, and, but your afterward is very interesting. Mm-Hmm. . 2: Yeah. I put that in in the last second 'cause I was scared to put it in because I was like, it it, it has God in it. Yeah. It has God, God language, . And I was really raised, not, not religiously and so to me, but I've always believed in God. Mm-Hmm. and it felt like a really intellectual book. And it also felt incomplete without that afterwards. So I just snuck it in there, . 1: I love it. I thought, wow, what, this is really revealing another part of her. Yeah. So it was and the way you feel about that kind of connection, how you feel about connection. Yeah. 2: Well, I'll tell you where that came from. I remember being in my apartment before I even had a book proposal and just having a ton of index cards. 'cause I'm old school and I like to write stuff on index cards and lay them out to organize my thoughts. And I was like, what is this book gonna be about? What is it not gonna be about? How am I going to structure it? And I just had that, you know, I call it in the afterward Waking Dream. I was sitting there and I just saw what I wrote in the afterward and it was just like a ten second thing. And I, and I was like, that is the spine of the book. And at, when I finished the book, something about it didn't feel complete and it was not including that little, you know, half a page afterward. And then I put it in and I felt such a peace in heart and mind, and I really love that part too. So thank you for, for sharing that. 1: Of course. Well, if for SelfWork listeners who are going to actually pick this book up, which I would highly recommend, I'm not gonna spoil it by reading it because I think it's just very, oh gosh, it, it evoked curiosity. It evoked gentleness. I don't know. It was just very, it was very interesting that you would, and I, I, I felt like you were letting us in a little bit to who you are and, and what makes you tick. So that's, that was really a beautiful thing to write. Hmm. Thank you. Anything else that you would like for us to hear about you or about your work? 2. Well the book is a conversation starter, and I could, you know, I think we all could talk about this in so many different directions and ways. And I continue the conversation on my site, which is Katherine Morgan Schafler.com, and you can find me on instagram@Katherinemorganschafler.com. And and I just wanna thank you for having me on. This has been such a thoughtful conversation and I also wanna Thank you. I have your book here. Oh. And I wanna, I wanna thank you for laying the groundwork. You know, you and so many other practitioners, you know, Dr. Brene Brown comes to mind, Flett and Hewitt, obviously, you know, all these people that really cemented how perfectionism can go wrong and how much we need to be mindful of that and understand that we need bumper lanes on this thing mm-hmm. or else we are going to crash. Mm-Hmm. . And, you know, the crash for perfectionism is very serious. And I talk about those serious risks in the book. And the reason that I was able to write a book about a sort of broader perspective was because the, you know, part about how maladaptive perfectionism can go wrong was so clearly laid out. And so I appreciate that and it gave me license to really explore. And I never get a chance to tell the people who wrote books. I mean, isn't that the best part of being an author is that you get to talk to other people who write other authors and about being a podcast host as well, so . Yeah, right. But man, being a podcast host looks so hard to me. It look, I mean, it looks easy on the surface, but just by being on all these podcasts, even just as a guest, I'm like, God, the level of technology, alone, . Well, that's when you, thank God for your team and your audio engineer . Mm-Hmm. . Thank you Catherine. So very, very much. My pleasure. Thank you. Of course. Thanks to Catherine for a wonderful interview. I'm so appreciative of her work and the fact that she also actually in the beginnings of the book does talk about how perfectionism can be destructive. So we're really more on the same page than I initially thought. Thanks for the reviews you're leaving for SelfWork. Wherever you listen, keep 'em coming. Thank you for your support and for being here today. And please take very good care of yourself, your family, and your community. Of course, our hearts are broken by what has happened in Hawaii. And so if you know someone there or if your life is affected by that tragic wildfire, please know that we are helping and we want to help. And I urge everybody listening, give whatever you can to the American Red Cross or the organization of your choice to help out these Hawaiians who have lost everything. I'm Dr. Margaret, and this has been SelfWork.    

Katherine Morgan Schafler shares actionable tips for fighting toxic perfectionism, identifying your own personal values, and living in alignment with those values.  how to stop trying to control your body (whether it's about your weight or health) pragmatic ways to let go of outside expectations and timelines of where your life is “supposed” to be the misogynistic roots of the idea of balance and women being afraid to lose control  why it's not bad to need external validation (as long as you do THIS one thing) the reason it's hard to love yourself, even if you're doing the work  3 concrete ways to love yourself more all of the ways you might be punishing yourself without even knowing it (and what to do instead) a genius way to tap into your innate sense of self-worth the difference between energy management and time management + how to get more premium quality energy practical tips to stop people pleasing how to not let perfectionism get in the way of your best life and so much more!  For more from Katherine, find her at perfectionistsguide.com, follow her on social media at @katherinemorganschafler, and grab her book The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power.  To join the Healthier Together Podcast Club Facebook group, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/healthiertogetherpodcast. This episode is sponsored by: Thrive Market: go to thrivemarket.com/healthiertogether to join Thrive Market today and get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.  LMNT: go to DrinkLMNT.com/Liz a to get a free LMNT sample pack with any order.  AG1: visit AG1.com/healthiertogether and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today.  Paleovalley: go to paleovalley.com/lizmoody for 15% off your order. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy.

Psychotherapist and author of The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace & Power, Katherine Morgan Schafler, breaks down the FIVE TYPES of perfectionism (including Heather's type), the difference between control and power, what it was like being the on-site therapist at Google, how perfectionism affects your parenting, and if you and your partner have compatible types of perfectionism! Check out our great sponsors! Reliefband: Go to Reliefband.com and use promo code HEATHER you'll receive 20% off plus free shipping! Fly-U-Home: Get up to a $100 eGift Card with a new membership with code HEATHER at AirMedCareNetwork.com/heather Be one of the first 150 people to get a $10 gift card when you fill out a quick survey at PodcastOne.study

Do you have a project you want to start … but you're stuck in analysis paralysis? Do you feel like if you want to do something right, you have to do it yourself? Do you try to wind down after the end of a long day, but your energy levels are just not quite restored? If you answered “Yes!” to any of these questions, then this episode is for you. Psychotherapist Katherine Morgan Schafler, a former on-site therapist at Google, and author of “The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control,” joins us to chat about her research on perfectionism. She shares a framework on five types of perfectionism. She describes the pros and cons of each type, and how to work through some of the negative tendencies to build a more emotionally healthy life. Enjoy! For more information, visit the show notes at https://affordanything.com/episode437 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Minimalists talk with psychotherapist Katherine Morgan Schafler about perfectionism, self-sabotage, and cohabiting with someone who isn't a minimalist. Listen to all 2 hours of episode 381 on The Minimalists Private Podcast. Discussed in this episode: How do I overcome my perfectionist tendencies so I can get my work done? (01:40) What are your perspectives regarding power? (03:42) How do we address an unhealthy obsession with perfectionism? (12:16) How do I live peacefully with a non-minimalist? (16:57) What are the five types of perfectionists? (26:19) How do The Minimalists make money without ad revenue? (31:09) What is the difference between procrastination and resistance? (39:02) Detailed show notes: minimalists.com/podcast Join The Minimalists Private Podcast: minimalists.com/support

Katherine Morgan Schafler is a therapist and an author who studies perfectionism. She talks about healthy vs maladaptive perfectionism and the ways we can harness this tendency for good. Follow her @KatherineMorganSchafler. Check out her book, The Perfectionists Guide to Losing Control. About KatherineBuy her book https://www.perfectionistsguide.com/Follow her on IG www.Instagram.com/katherinemorganschaflerSupport Our Sponsors! This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp online counseling. To get 10% off your first month go to www.BetterHelp.com/mental Must be 18. For those under 18 you will be redirected to or can go directly to TeenCounseling at www.teencounseling.com WAYS TO HELP THE PODCASTSubscribe via iTunes and leave a review. It costs nothing. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2Spread the word via social media. It costs nothing.Our website is www.mentalpod.com our FB is www.Facebook.com/mentalpod and our Twitter and Instagram are both @Mentalpod Become a much-needed Patreon monthly-donor (with occasional rewards) for as little as $1/month at www.Patreon.com/mentalpod Become a one-time or monthly donor via Paypal or Zelle (make payment to mentalpod@gmail.com) or Venmo @MentalpodTry Our Sponsor's Products/ServicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.