Podcast appearances and mentions of Ezra Klein

Welcome back to Snafu w/ Robin Zander.  In this episode, I'm joined by Brian Elliott, former Slack executive and co-founder of Future Forum. We discuss the common mistakes leaders make about AI and why trust and transparency are more crucial than ever. Brian shares lessons from building high-performing teams, what makes good leadership, and how to foster real collaboration. He also reflects on raising values-driven kids, the breakdown of institutional trust, and why purpose matters. We touch on the early research behind Future Forum and what he'd do differently today. Brian will also be joining us live at Responsive Conference 2025, and I'm excited to continue the conversation there. If you haven't gotten your tickets yet, get them here. What Do Most People Get Wrong About AI? (1:53) “Senior leaders sit on polar ends of the spectrum on this stuff. Very, very infrequently, sit in the middle, which is kind of where I find myself too often.”  Robin notes Brian will be co-leading an active session on AI at Responsive Conference with longtime collaborator Helen Kupp. He tees up the conversation by saying Brian holds “a lot of controversial opinions” on AI, not that it's insignificant, but that there's a lot of “idealization.” Brian says most senior leaders fall into one of two camps: Camp A: “Oh my God, this changes everything.” These are the fear-mongers shouting: “If you don't adopt now, your career is over.” Camp B: “This will blow over.” They treat AI as just another productivity fad, like others before it. Brian positions himself somewhere in the middle but is frustrated by both ends of the spectrum. He points out that the loudest voices (Mark Benioff, Andy Jassy, Zuckerberg, Sam Altman) are “arms merchants” – they're pushing AI tools because they've invested billions. These tools are massively expensive to build and run, and unless they displace labor, it's unclear how they generate ROI. believe in AI's potential and  aggressively push adoption inside their companies. So, naturally, these execs have to: But “nothing ever changes that fast,” and both the hype and the dismissal are off-base. Why Playing with AI Matters More Than Training (3:29) AI is materially different from past tech, but what's missing is attention to how adoption happens. “The organizational craft of driving adoption is not about handing out tools. It's all emotional.” Adoption depends on whether people respond with fear or aspiration, not whether they have the software. Frontline managers are key: it's their job to create the time and space for teams to experiment with AI. Brian credits Helen Kupp for being great at facilitating this kind of low-stakes experimentation. Suggests teams should “play with AI tools” in a way totally unrelated to their actual job. Example: take a look at your fridge, list the ingredients you have, and have AI suggest a recipe. “Well, that's a sucky recipe, but it could do that, right?” The point isn't utility,  it's comfort and conversation: What's OK to use AI for? Is it acceptable to draft your self-assessment for performance reviews with AI? Should you tell your boss or hide it? The Purpose of Doing the Thing (5:30) Robin brings up Ezra Klein's podcast in The New York Times, where Ezra asks: “What's the purpose of writing an essay in college?” AI can now do better research than a student, faster and maybe more accurately. But Robin argues that the act of writing is what matters, not just the output. Says: “I'm much better at writing that letter than ChatGPT can ever be, because only Robin Zander can write that letter.” Example: Robin and his partner are in contract on a house and wrote a letter to the seller – the usual “sob story” to win favor. All the writing he's done over the past two years prepared him to write that one letter better. “The utility of doing the thing is not the thing itself – it's what it trains.” Learning How to Learn (6:35) Robin's fascinated by “skills that train skills” – a lifelong theme in both work and athletics. He brings up Josh Waitzkin (from Searching for Bobby Fischer), who went from chess prodigy to big wave surfer to foil board rider. Josh trained his surfing skills by riding a OneWheel through NYC, practicing balance in a different context. Robin is drawn to that kind of transfer learning and “meta-learning” – especially since it's so hard to measure or study. He asks: What might AI be training in us that isn't the thing itself? We don't yet know the cognitive effects of using generative AI daily, but we should be asking. Cognitive Risk vs. Capability Boost (8:00) Brian brings up early research suggesting AI could make us “dumber.” Outsourcing thinking to AI reduces sharpness over time. But also: the “10,000 repetitions” idea still holds weight – doing the thing builds skill. There's a tension between “performance mode” (getting the thing done) and “growth mode” (learning). He relates it to writing: Says he's a decent writer, not a great one, but wants to keep getting better. Has a “quad project” with an editor who helps refine tone and clarity but doesn't do the writing. The setup: he provides 80% drafts, guidelines, tone notes, and past writing samples. The AI/editor cleans things up, but Brian still reviews: “I want that colloquialism back in.” “I want that specific example back in.” “That's clunky, I don't want to keep it.” Writing is iterative, and tools can help, but shouldn't replace his voice. On Em Dashes & Detecting Human Writing (9:30) Robin shares a trick: he used em dashes long before ChatGPT and does them with a space on either side. He says that ChatGPT's em dashes are double-length and don't have spaces. If you want to prove ChatGPT didn't write something, “just add the space.” Brian agrees and jokes that his editors often remove the spaces, but he puts them back in. Reiterates that professional human editors like the ones he works with at Charter and Sloan are still better than AI. Closing the Gap Takes More Than Practice (10:31) Robin references The Gap by Ira Glass, a 2014 video that explores the disconnect between a creator's vision and their current ability to execute on that vision. He highlights Glass's core advice: the only way to close that gap is through consistent repetition – what Glass calls “the reps.” Brian agrees, noting that putting in the reps is exactly what creators must do, even when their output doesn't yet meet their standards. Brian also brings up his recent conversation with Nick Petrie, whose work focuses not only on what causes burnout but also on what actually resolves it. He notes research showing that people stuck in repetitive performance mode – like doctors doing the same task for decades – eventually see a decline in performance. Brian recommends mixing in growth opportunities alongside mastery work. “exploit” mode (doing what you're already good at) and  “explore” mode (trying something new that pushes you) He says doing things that stretch your boundaries builds muscle that strengthens your core skills and breaks stagnation. He emphasizes the value of alternating between  He adds that this applies just as much to personal growth, especially when people begin to question their deeper purpose and ask hard questions like, “Is this all there is to my life or career? Brian observes that stepping back for self-reflection is often necessary, either by choice or because burnout forces a hard stop. He suggests that sustainable performance requires not just consistency but also intentional space for growth, purpose, and honest self-evaluation. Why Taste And Soft Skills Now Matter More Than Ever (12:30) On AI, Brian argues that most people get it wrong. “I do think it's augmentation.” The tools are evolving rapidly, and so are the ways we use them. They view it as a way to speed up work, especially for engineers, but that's missing the bigger picture. Brian stresses that EQ is becoming more important than IQ. Companies still need people with developer mindsets – hypothesis-driven, structured thinkers. But now, communication, empathy, and adaptability are no longer optional; they are critical. “Human communication skills just went from ‘they kind of suck at it but it's okay' to ‘that's not acceptable.'” As AI takes over more specialist tasks, the value of generalists is rising. People who can generate ideas, anticipate consequences, and rally others around a vision will be most valuable. “Tools can handle the specialized knowledge – but only humans can connect it to purpose.” Brian warns that traditional job descriptions and org charts are becoming obsolete. Instead of looking for ways to rush employees into doing more work, “rethink the roles. What can a small group do when aligned around a common purpose?” The future lies in small, aligned teams with shared goals. Vision Is Not a Strategy (15:56) Robin reflects on durable human traits through Steve Jobs' bio by Isaac Walterson. Jobs succeeded not just with tech, but with taste, persuasion, charisma, and vision. “He was less technologist, more storyteller.” They discuss Sam Altman, the subject of Empire of AI. Whether or not the book is fully accurate, Robin argues that Altman's defining trait is deal-making. Robin shares his experience using ChatGPT in real estate. It changed how he researched topics like redwood root systems on foundational structure and mosquito mitigation. Despite the tech, both agree that human connection is more important than ever. “We need humans now more than ever.” Brian references data from Kelly Monahan showing AI power users are highly productive but deeply burned out. 40% more productive than their peers. 88% are completely burnt out. Many don't believe their company's AI strategy, even while using the tools daily. There's a growing disconnect between executive AI hype and on-the-ground experience. But internal tests by top engineers showed only 10% improvement, mostly in simple tasks. “You've got to get into the tools yourself to be fluent on this.” One CTO believed AI would produce 30% efficiency gains. Brian urges leaders to personally engage with the tools before making sweeping decisions. He warns against blindly accepting optimistic vendor promises or trends. Leaders pushing AI without firsthand experience risk overburdening their teams. “You're bringing the Kool-Aid and then you're shoving it down your team's throat.” This results in burnout, not productivity. “You're cranking up the demands. You're cranking up the burnout, too.” “That's not going to lead to what you want either.” If You Want Control, Just Say That (20:47) Robin raises the topic of returning to the office, which has been a long-standing area of interest for him. “I interviewed Joel Gascoyne on stage in 2016… the largest fully distributed company in the world at the time.” He's tracked distributed work since Responsive 2016. Also mentions Shelby Wolpa (ex-Envision), who scaled thousands remotely. Robin notes the shift post-COVID: companies are mandating returns without adjusting for today's realities.” Example: “Intel just did a mandatory 4 days a week return to office… and now people live hours away.” He acknowledges the benefits of in-person collaboration, especially in creative or physical industries. “There is an undeniable utility.”, especially as they met in Robin's Cafe to talk about Responsive, despite a commute, because it was worth it. But he challenges blanket return-to-office mandates, especially when the rationale is unclear. According to Brian, any company uses RTO as a veiled soft layoff tactic. Cites Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy openly stating RTO is meant to encourage attrition. He says policies without clarity are ineffective. “If you quit, I don't have to pay you severance.” Robin notes that the Responsive Manifesto isn't about providing answers but outlining tensions to balance. Before enforcing an RTO policy, leaders should ask: “What problem are we trying to solve – and do we have evidence of it?” Before You Mandate, Check the Data (24:50) Performance data should guide decisions, not executive assumptions. For instance, junior salespeople may benefit from in-person mentorship, but… That may only apply to certain teams, and doesn't justify full mandates. “I've seen situations where productivity has fallen – well-defined productivity.” The decision-making process should be decentralized and nuanced. Different teams have different needs — orgs must avoid one-size-fits-all policies, especially in large, distributed orgs. “Should your CEO be making that decision? Or should your head of sales?” Brian offers a two-part test for leaders to assess their RTO logic: Are you trying to attract and retain the best talent? Are your teams co-located or distributed? If the answer to #1 is yes: People will be less engaged, not more. High performers will quietly leave or disengage while staying. Forcing long commutes will hurt retention and morale. If the answer to #2 is “distributed”: Brian then tells a story about a JPMorgan IT manager who asks Jamie Dimon for flexibility. “It's freaking stupid… it actually made it harder to do their core work.” Instead, teams need to define shared norms and operating agreements. “Teams have to have norms to be effective.” RTO makes even less sense. His team spanned time zones and offices, forcing them into daily hurt collaboration. He argues most RTO mandates are driven by fear and a desire for control. More important than office days are questions like: What hours are we available for meetings? What tools do we use and why? How do we make decisions? Who owns which roles and responsibilities? The Bottom Line: The policy must match the structure. If teams are remote by design, dragging them into an office is counterproductive. How to Be a Leader in Chaotic Times (28:34) “We're living in a more chaotic time than any in my lifetime.” Robin asks how leaders should guide their organizations through uncertainty. He reflects on his early work years during the 2008 crash and the unpredictability he's seen since. Observes current instability like the UCSF and NIH funding and hiring freezes disrupting universities, rising political violence, and murders of public officials from the McKnight Foundation, and more may persist for years without relief. “I was bussing tables for two weeks, quit, became a personal trainer… my old client jumped out a window because he lost his fortune as a banker.” Brian says what's needed now is: Resilience – a mindset of positive realism: acknowledging the issues, while focusing on agency and possibility, and supporting one another. Trust – not just psychological safety, but deep belief in leadership clarity and honesty. His definition of resilience includes: “What options do we have?” “What can we do as a team?” “What's the opportunity in this?” What Builds Trust (and What Breaks It) (31:00) Brian recalls laying off more people than he hired during the dot-com bust – and what helped his team endure: “Here's what we need to do. If you're all in, we'll get through this together.” He believes trust is built when: Leaders communicate clearly and early. They acknowledge difficulty, without sugarcoating. They create clarity about what matters most right now. They involve their team in solutions. He critiques companies that delay communication until they're in PR cleanup mode: Like Target's CEO, who responded to backlash months too late – and with vague platitudes. “Of course, he got backlash,” Brian says. “He wasn't present.” According to him, “Trust isn't just psychological safety. It's also honesty.” Trust Makes Work Faster, Better, and More Fun (34:10) “When trust is there, the work is more fun, and the results are better.” Robin offers a Zander Media story: Longtime collaborator Jonathan Kofahl lives in Austin. Despite being remote, they prep for shoots with 3-minute calls instead of hour-long meetings. The relationship is fast, fluid, and joyful, and the end product reflects that. He explains the ripple effects of trust: Faster workflows Higher-quality output More fun and less burnout Better client experience Fewer miscommunications or dropped balls He also likens it to acrobatics: “If trust isn't there, you land on your head.” Seldom Wrong, Never in Doubt (35:45) “Seldom wrong, never in doubt – that bit me in the butt.” Brian reflects on a toxic early-career mantra: As a young consultant, he was taught to project confidence at all times. It was said that “if you show doubt, you lose credibility,” especially with older clients. Why that backfired: It made him arrogant. It discouraged honest questions or collaborative problem-solving. It modeled bad leadership for others. Brian critiques the startup world's hero culture: Tech glorifies mavericks and contrarians, people who bet against the grain and win. But we rarely see the 95% who bet big and failed, and the survivors become models, often with toxic effects. The real danger: Leaders try to imitate success without understanding the context. Contrarianism becomes a virtue in itself – even when it's wrong. Now, he models something else: “I can point to the mountain, but I don't know the exact path.” Leaders should admit they don't have all the answers. Inviting the team to figure it out together builds alignment and ownership. That's how you lead through uncertainty, by trusting your team to co-create. Slack, Remote Work, and the Birth of Future Forum (37:40) Brian recalls the early days of Future Forum: Slack was deeply office-centric pre-pandemic. He worked 5 days a week in SF, and even interns were expected to show up regularly. Slack's leadership, especially CTO Cal Henderson, was hesitant to go remote, not because they were anti-remote, but because they didn't know how. But when COVID hit, Slack, like everyone else, had to figure out remote work in real time. Brian had long-standing relationships with Slack's internal research team: He pitched Stewart Butterfield (Slack's CEO) on the idea of a think tank, where he was then joined by Helen Kupp and Sheela Subramanian, who became his co-founders in the venture. Thus, Future Forum was born. Christina Janzer, Lucas Puente, and others. Their research was excellent, but mostly internal-facing, used for product and marketing. Brian, self-described as a “data geek,” saw an opportunity: Remote Work Increased Belonging, But Not for Everyone (40:56) In mid-2020, Future Forum launched its first major study. Expected finding: employee belonging would drop due to isolation. Reality: it did, but not equally across all demographics. For Black office workers, a sense of belonging actually increased. Future Forum brought in Dr. Brian Lowery, a Black professor at Stanford, to help interpret the results. Lowery explained: “I'm a Black professor at Stanford. Whatever you think of it as a liberal school, if I have to walk on that campus five days a week and be on and not be Black five days a week, 9 to 5 – it's taxing. It's exhausting. If I can dial in and out of that situation, it's a release.” A Philosophy Disguised as a Playbook (42:00) Brian, Helen, and Sheela co-authored a book that distilled lessons from: Slack's research Hundreds of executive conversations Real-world trials during the remote work shift One editor even commented on how the book is “more like a philosophy book disguised as a playbook.” The key principles are: “Start with what matters to us as an organization. Then ask: What's safe to try?” Policies don't work. Principles do. Norms > mandates. Team-level agreements matter more than companywide rules. Focus on outcomes, not activity.  Train your managers. Clarity, trust, and support start there. Safe-to-try experiments. Iterate fast and test what works for your team. Co-create team norms. Define how decisions get made, what tools get used, and when people are available. What's great with the book is that no matter where you are, this same set of rules still applies.  When Leadership Means Letting Go (43:54) “My job was to model the kind of presence I wanted my team to show.” Robin recalls a defining moment at Robin's Café: Employees were chatting behind the counter while a banana peel sat on the floor, surrounded by dirty dishes. It was a lawsuit waiting to happen. His first impulse was to berate them, a habit from his small business upbringing. But in that moment, he reframed his role. “I'm here to inspire, model, and demonstrate the behavior I want to see.” He realized: Hovering behind the counter = surveillance, not leadership. True leadership = empowering your team to care, even when you're not around. You train your manager to create a culture, not compliance. Brian and Robin agree: Rules only go so far. Teams thrive when they believe in the ‘why' behind the work. Robin draws a link between strong workplace culture and… The global rise of authoritarianism The erosion of trust in institutions If trust makes Zander Media better, and helps VC-backed companies scale — “Why do our political systems seem to be rewarding the exact opposite?” Populism, Charisma & Bullshit (45:20) According to Robin, “We're in a world where trust is in very short supply.” Brian reflects on why authoritarianism is thriving globally: The media is fragmented. Everyone's in different pocket universes. People now get news from YouTube or TikTok, not trusted institutions. Truth is no longer shared, and without shared truth, trust collapses. “Walter Cronkite doesn't exist anymore.” He references Andor, where the character, Mon Mothma, says: People no longer trust journalism, government, universities, science, or even business. Edelman's Trust Barometer dipped for business leaders for the first time in 25 years. CEOs who once declared strong values are now going silent, which damages trust even more. “The death of truth is really the problem that's at work here.” Robin points out: Trump and Elon, both charismatic, populist figures, continue to gain power despite low trust. Why? Because their clarity and simplicity still outperform thoughtful leadership. He also calls Trump a “marketing genius.” Brian's frustration: Case in point: Trump-era officials who spread conspiracy theories now can't walk them back. Populists manufacture distrust, then struggle to govern once in power. He shares a recent example: Result: Their base turned on them. Right-wing pundits (Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino) fanned Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies. But in power, they had to admit: “There's no client list publicly.” Brian then suggests that trust should be rebuilt locally. He points to leaders like Zohran Mamdani (NY): “I may not agree with all his positions, but he can articulate a populist vision that isn't exploitative.” Where Are the Leaders? (51:19) Brian expresses frustration at the silence from people in power: “I'm disappointed, highly disappointed, in the number of leaders in positions of power and authority who could lend their voice to something as basic as: science is real.” He calls for a return to shared facts: “Let's just start with: vaccines do not cause autism. Let's start there.” He draws a line between public health and trust: We've had over a century of scientific evidence backing vaccines But misinformation is eroding communal health Brian clarifies: this isn't about wedge issues like guns or Roe v. Wade The problem is that scientists lack public authority, but CEOs don't CEOs of major institutions could shift the narrative, especially those with massive employee bases. And yet, most say nothing: “They know it's going to bite them… and still, no one's saying it.” He warns: ignoring this will hurt businesses, frontline workers, and society at large. 89 Seconds from Midnight (52:45) Robin brings up the Doomsday Clock: Historically, it was 2–4 minutes to midnight “We are 89 seconds to midnight.” (as of January 2025) This was issued by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, a symbol of how close humanity is to destroying itself. Despite that, he remains hopeful: “I might be the most energetic person in any room – and yet, I'm a prepper.” Robin shared that: And in a real emergency? You might not make it. He grew up in the wilderness, where ambulances don't arrive, and CPR is a ritual of death. He frequently visits Vieques, an island off Puerto Rico with no hospital, where a car crash likely means you won't survive. As there is a saying there that goes, ‘No Hay Hospital', meaning ‘there is no hospital'. If something serious happens, you're likely a few hours' drive or even a flight away from medical care. That shapes his worldview: “We've forgotten how precious life is in privileged countries.” Despite his joy and optimism, Robin is also: Deeply aware of fragility – of systems, bodies, institutions. Committed to preparation, not paranoia. Focused on teaching resilience, care, and responsibility. How to Raise Men with Heart and Backbone (55:00) Robin asks: “How do you counsel your boys to show up as protectors and earners, especially in a capitalist world, while also taking care of people, especially when we're facing the potential end of humanity in our lifetimes?” Brian responds: His sons are now 25 and 23, and he's incredibly proud of who they're becoming. Credits both parenting and luck but he also acknowledges many friends who've had harder parenting experiences. His sons are: Sharp and thoughtful In healthy relationships Focused on values over achievements Educational path: “They think deeply about what are now called ‘social justice' issues in a very real way.” Example: In 4th grade, their class did a homelessness simulation – replicating the fragmented, frustrating process of accessing services. Preschool at the Jewish Community Center Elementary at a Quaker school in San Francisco He jokes that they needed a Buddhist high school to complete the loop Not religious, but values-based, non-dogmatic education had a real impact That hands-on empathy helped them see systemic problems early on, especially in San Francisco, where it's worse. What Is Actually Enough? (56:54) “We were terrified our kids would take their comfort for granted.” Brian's kids: Lived modestly, but comfortably in San Francisco. Took vacations, had more than he and his wife did growing up. Worried their sons would chase status over substance. But what he taught them instead: Family matters. Friendships matter. Being dependable matters. Not just being good, but being someone others can count on. He also cautioned against: “We too often push kids toward something unattainable, and we act surprised when they burn out in the pursuit of that.” The “gold ring” mentality is like chasing elite schools, careers, and accolades. In sports and academics, he and his wife aimed for balance, not obsession. Brian on Parenting, Purpose, and Perspective (59:15) Brian sees promise in his kids' generation: But also more: Purpose-driven Skeptical of false promises Less obsessed with traditional success markers Yes, they're more stressed and overamped on social media. Gen Z has been labeled just like every generation before: “I'm Gen X. They literally made a movie about us called Slackers.” He believes the best thing we can do is: Model what matters Spend time reflecting: What really does matter? Help the next generation define enough for themselves, earlier than we did. The Real Measure of Success (1:00:07) Brian references Clay Christensen, famed author of The Innovator's Dilemma and How Will You Measure Your Life? Clay's insight: “Success isn't what you thought it was.” Early reunions are full of bravado – titles, accomplishments, money. Later reunions reveal divorce, estrangement, and regret. The longer you go, the more you see: Brian's takeaway: Even for Elon, it might be about Mars. But for most of us, it's not about how many projects we shipped. It's about: Family Friends Presence Meaning “If you can realize that earlier, you give yourself the chance to adjust – and find your way back.” Where to Find Brian (01:02:05) LinkedIn WorkForward.com Newsletter: The Work Forward on Substack “Some weeks it's lame, some weeks it's great. But there's a lot of community and feedback.” And of course, join us at Responsive Conference this September 17-18, 2025. Books Mentioned How Will You Measure Your Life? by Clayton Christensen The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen Responsive Manifesto Empire of AI by Karen Hao Podcasts Mentioned The Gap by Ira Glass The Ezra Klein Show Movies Mentioned Andor Slackers Organizations Mentioned: Bulletin of Atomic Scientists McKnight Foundation National Institutes of Health (NIH) Responsive.org University of California, San Francisco

Today we've got Layla Al-Sheik on to discuss recent events in Gaza, where an onrushing famine has suddenly become widely acknowledged, even among parts of the Israeli far right. Is it because reality finally broke through, or Europe getting fed up--or perhaps an Ezra Klein column? And is there a chance to save Gazans and get a permanent peace settlement? Check out our previous episode with Layla here and the Isaac Chotiner interview of Amit Segal here.

Scott speaks with Ezra Klein, New York Times columnist and host of The Ezra Klein Show, to discuss America's political crossroads. They talk about Trump's influence, the Democratic Party's leadership gap, and the growing divide among American Jews over Israel. Ezra also shares his thoughts on the future of democracy, rising nationalism, and how to rebuild trust in U.S. institutions. Follow Ezra Klein, @ezraklein. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Malcolm Harris, author of Kids These Days and Palo Alto returns to talk about his new book What's Left: Three Paths Through the Planetary Crisis--a trip through the three leftist conceptions of how to survive the climate crisis with recommendations for the present. For the full episode subscribe at http://patreon.com/theantifadaArticle about Shell consulting gig: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/shell-climate-change.htmlEmmanuel Carrere on the G7: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jul/15/my-trip-g7-summit-emmanuel-macron-emmanuel-carrereTooze's NYT review that calls Harris “ the left-wing alter ego to the liberal journalists Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson": https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/15/books/review/whats-left-malcolm-harris.htmlSong: The Walters - What's Left

Send us a textDr. Max Klau is a consultant, author, speaker, and Integral Master Coach based in Boston, Massachusetts.  He received his doctorate from the Harvard Graduate School of Education in 2005 with a focus on civic leadership development.  He served as the Chief Program Officer at the New Politics Leadership Academy (NPLA) from 2016-2024.  NPLA is focused on bringing more servant leaders into politics, and Max designed leadership programs that have graduated more than 2,500 servant leaders to date.  Previously, he was the Vice President of Leadership Development at City Year, the education-focused AmeriCorps program.  He is the founder of the Center for Courageous Wholeness and his second book, Developing Servant Leaders at Scale, will be published in August 2025. He lives outside of Boston with his wife and two children.A Few Quotes From This Episode“One of the reasons our world is so divided is because we're divided from ourselves.”“We've hit the limits of how much change we can make without getting serious about owning our shadow.”“If we don't confront the shadow, it controls us from beyond our awareness and shows up in the systems we lead.”“Service turns pain into power when we use the gifts of our struggle to serve others.”Resources Mentioned in This Episode Book: Developing Servant Leaders at Scale by Max Klau Book: Servant Leadership: A Journey into the Nature of Legitimate Power and Greatness by GreenleafBook: Abundance by Ezra Klein & Derek ThompsonBook: The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellOrganization: Inner Development Goals Podcast: Living Myth with Michael MeadeAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Plan for Prague - October 15-18, 2025!About  Scott J. AllenWebsiteWeekly Newsletter: Practical Wisdom for LeadersBlogMy Approach to HostingThe views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace ♻️ Please share with others and follow/subscribe to the podcast!⭐️ Please leave a review on Apple, Spotify, or your platform of choice.➡️ Follow me on LinkedIn for more on leadership, communication, and tech.

Frank Lavin talks with Olaf Groth, the author of “The Great Remobilization” and discusses the six major trends that will drive decisions in our personal lives, government policies, and business decision-making: 1. Covid and CRISPR; 2. Cognitive Technologies; 3. Crypto and distributed power; 4. Cyber security; 5. Climate Change; 6. China. Olaf moves on to discuss how corporations and governments should respond to meet – and perhaps even benefit from – these challenges. Olaf also suggests reading Ezra Klein's “Abundance” and the work of our previous guest, “Apple in China” by Patrick McGee.

A troubling statement makes us want to think of exceptions to it that would prove that statement to be wrong.“Outliers are interesting, but they rarely matter,” is a troubling statement, and you may already be thinking of exceptions to it. But it remains true nonetheless.This second statement is also true. “If there were no outliers, there would be no new inventions, no innovations, no progress. We would be trapped forever in the status quo.”These seemingly contradictory statements can both be true because there are two kinds of outliers.Leonardo da Vinci made marvelous art and filled fabulous sketchbooks with his insightful ideas, but he didn't really change anything. He was just an interesting outlier whose mind was ahead of his time.Rare is the outlier who throws a pebble into the ocean of time and shifts the world off its axis. Electricity is harnessed. Computers are invented. Someone connects them and now everyone knows everything all the time.“What distinguishes the past from the present is not biology, nor psychology, but rather technology. If the world has changed, it is because we have changed the world.”– Ezra Klein & Derek Thompson in their new book, AbundanceTechnology changes the world, but persuasion changes hearts and minds.I am an ad writer.When I was in my 20s, I was told,“People never change their mind. If you give a person the same information they were given in the past, they will make the same decision they made in the past. When a person appears to have ‘changed their mind,' what they have really done is made a new decision based on new information.*”Ten years later I realized that those people were trying to use logic to create “persuasion technology.” Their mistake was assuming that people make their decisions logically. But people do not trust new information when it disagrees with their belief system.New information may allow you to win the argument, but it rarely wins the heart.And a person convinced against their will, remains unconvinced, still.Wash away the opinions, bravado, and fluff, and you will find that most people are NOT seeking new information. They are seeking identity reinforcement.Bertrand Russell was a mathematician and a logician. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature eight years before I was born.He said,“If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance with his instincts, he will accept it even on the slenderest evidence.”When your goal is persuasion, don't begin with new information. Begin by agreeing with what they already believe. Meet them where they are. Only then can you hope to lead them to where you want them to go.Abraham Lincoln knew that persuasion is easier when you begin at a point of mutual agreement.“If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart, which, say what you will, is the greatest high-road to his reason, and which, when once gained, you will find but little trouble in convincing his judgment of the...

On this episode of #TheGlobalExchange, Colin Robertson sits down with Dr. Christopher Sands and Carlo Dade to discuss Canada-U.S. relations and its implications for the trilateral relationship of North America; Canada, U.S. and Mexico. // Participants' bios - Dr. Christopher Sands is an Adjunct Lecturer and Director of the Hopkins Center for Canadian Studies at the School of Advanced International Studies at John Hopkins University. - Carlo Dade is the Director of International Policy at the School of Policy at the University of Calgary. // Host bio: Colin Robertson is a former diplomat and Senior Advisor to the Canadian Global Affairs Institute. // Reading Recommendations: - "Abundance" by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson - "Woodrow Wilson: The Light Withdrawn" by Christopher Cox // Music Credit: Drew Phillips | Producer: Jordyn Carroll // Recording Date: July 8, 2025 Release date: July 28, 2025

For this "Summer Friday" we've put together some of our favorite conversations this year:Derek Thompson, staff writer at The Atlantic, author of the "Work in Progress" newsletter and host of the podcast "Plain English," and Ezra Klein, New York Times opinion columnist and host of their podcast, the "Ezra Klein Show," co-authors of Abundance (Simon & Schuster, 2025), discuss their new book that argues limits placed by past generations to protect jobs and the environment are preventing solving shortages today.Bob Costas, sportscaster and talk show host, recent recipient of the Baseball Digest lifetime achievement award, reflects on the state of baseball and other sports today.Katie Barnes, ESPN senior writer and author of Fair Play: How Sports Shape the Gender Debates (St. Martin's Press, 2023),Katie Barnes, ESPN senior writer and author of Fair Play: How Sports Shape the Gender Debates (St. Martin's Press, 2023), discusses the controversy surrounding trans women in competitive sports, fact-checks ideas the broader public holds about fairness and gender in athletics, and talks about current rules various leagues already set in place to ensure equity and inclusion. These interviews were lightly edited for time and clarity and the original web versions are available here:Building Solutions (Mar 18, 2025)Bob Costas Reflects (May 7, 2025)Parsing the Facts of Trans Women in Competitive Sports (Jun 3, 2025)

Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson should take over the development of Akon City. If Coldplay is using the kiss cam at the arena, why don't they use the scoreboard too? Fortune Kit on Patreon: www.patreon.com/fortunekit

Miriam Herschlag and Noah Efron discuss (1) The dramatic moments this week when hundreds of Druze from Israel crossed into Syria to help Druze in Suwayda under attack by Bedouin militia and the Syrian army, and hundreds of Druze from Suwayda crossed into Israel to see relatives they had not seen in a generation, and (2) A percussive essay by Ezra Klein called “Why American Jews No Longer Understand One Another.” Plus, the “Admor of Hope,” Miriam doing drugs, Noah seeing shows and a heartbreaking new record by a brother who lost a brother in Gaza. Hear the Extra-Special, Special Extra Segment on Patreon For our most unreasonably generous Patreon supporters, in our extra-special, special extra discussion: What are “the Three Weeks” like in these ash-and-sackclothy times?

We are all pivoting to video. Podcasters, journalists, editors are getting out their ring lights and their botox and they are staring intently into the camera to talk to YOU about what's going on. Is the human and tactile being offered as the antidote to the artificial AI slop? Or is this just surrendering to the influencer economy? Jessa and Nico make a solemn pledge, never to show the listeners what we wear or what our hair is doing while we are recording, and discuss the implications of a news media that wants to make stars and influencers out of reporters. Shownotes and references: http://theculturewedeserve.substack.com

In this week's episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Diana Hernández, an associate professor and codirector of the Energy Opportunity Lab at the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University, about the struggles that ordinary Americans face in accessing affordable and reliable energy. In her recently released book, Powerless: The People's Struggle for Energy, Hernández documents how energy insecurity affects people across the country and analyzes policy solutions that can help address the challenge. Hernández explains the interconnections among housing, public health, and poverty through stories which highlight the highly personal nature of energy insecurity and the difficult choices many Americans must make between essential expenses. Hernández then outlines potential improvements to existing energy-assistance programs, including increased support for year-round energy expenses and program adaptations to accommodate a changing climate. References and recommendations: “Powerless: The People's Struggle for Energy” by Diana Hernández and Jennifer Laird, https://www.russellsage.org/publications/powerless “Abundance” by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson; https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488 “Plundered” by Bernadette Atuahene; https://bernadetteatuahene.com/plundered/ “Debí Tirar Más Fotos” album by Bad Bunny; https://www.allmusic.com/album/deb%C3%AD-tirar-m%C3%A1s-fotos-mw0004451357

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In the Sunday Book Review, I consider books that would interest the compliance professional, the business executive or anyone who might be curious. It could be books about business, compliance, history, leadership, current events or anything else that might interest me. For the month of July, we look the FT's recommendation for top books in the summer 2025. In this episode, I review the FT's list of the top books on business for the Summer 2025. 1.     The Chairman's Lounge: The Inside Story of How Qantas Sold Us Out by Joe Aston  2.     Abundance: How We Build a Better Future by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson 3.    Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist by Liz Pelly 4.    House of Huawei: Inside the Secret World of China's Most Powerful Company by Eva Dou The Sunday Book Review was recently honored as one of the Top 100 Book Podcasts. Resources FT's Best Books of Summer for 2025: Business by Andrew Hill.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“If not us, then who? And the answer is no one. So you kind of find the other gear that you didn't know you had and you just keep going no matter how hard it gets.”This week, Stephen Donnelly sat down for an exclusive with Lissie Ratcliff, former Chief of Staff to Daniel Andrews, for her first-ever public interview. With 14 years of experience in Labor government and opposition, Lissie shares her candid reflections on political strategy and communication, crisis management, and what it feels like to lose. From the key foundation stones that took Victorian Labor from opposition to government in 2014, to the relentless grind of implementing Victoria's Covid response (complete with 120 daily press conferences in a row), Lissie takes us behind the scenes of the three-peat election winning Andrews government in its most crucial moments.You may never have heard the name Lissie Ratcliff, but after this episode, you won't forget it. Mentioned in the episode:Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson https://tr.ee/fgjAt9Support the showNew episodes every Friday. If you like the show, rate and review us on your favourite podcast app. Follow Us on Socials: Facebook (https://tr.ee/9jGIOy)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/sociallydemocratic)LinkedIn (https://tr.ee/YxyYJh)Twitter (https://x.com/SocialDemPod)Bluesky (https://tr.ee/EqdapC)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@DunnStreet) The presenting sponsor of the Socially Democratic podcast is Dunn Street. For more information on how Dunn Street can help you organise to build winning campaigns in your community, business or organisation, and make the world a better place, look us up at: dunnstreet.com.au

In this episode of #DefenceDeconstructed we sit down with David Coletto to discuss the current data of public opinions towards Canadian defence and some of the initiatives the Carney government is taking. We look at views of defence spending against Carney himself, his government and the country's political parties. // Guest bios: David Coletto is the CEO of Abacus Data // Host bio: David Perry is President and CEO of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute // Recommended Readings: - "Abundance" by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson // Defence Deconstructed was brought to you by Irving Shipbuilding. // Music Credit: Drew Phillips | Producer: Jordyn Carroll Release date: 18 July 2025

In Canberra there's one book you must at least pretend to have read by the time parliament returns: Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. In recent media interviews treasurer Jim Chalmers called the book – hailed by some in the US as a manifesto for the Democrats – “a ripper”. So why are so many Labor MPs excited by it?Nour Haydar asks editor Lenore Taylor and head of newsroom Mike Ticher if the Abundance agenda is right for Australia

You are in for a real treat on this episode. My guest this time is Greg Schwem. Greg is a corporate comedian. What is a corporate comedian? You probably can imagine that his work has to do with corporations, and you would be right. Greg will explain much better than I can. Mr. Schwem began his career as a TV journalist but eventually decided to take up what he really wanted to do, be a comedian. The story of how he evolved is quite fascinating by any standard. Greg has done comedy professionally since 1989. He speaks today mostly to corporate audiences. He will tell us how he does his work. It is quite interesting to hear how he has learned to relate to his audiences. As you will discover as Greg and I talk, we often work in the same way to learn about our audiences and thus how we get to relate to them. Greg has written three books. His latest one is entitled “Turning Gut Punches into Punch Lines: A Comedian's Journey Through Cancer, Divorce and Other Hilarious Stuff”. As Greg says, “Don't worry, it's not one of those whiny, ‘woe is me,' self- serving books. Instead, it's a hilarious account of me living the words I've been preaching to my audiences: You can always find humor in every situation, even the tough ones. Greg offers many interesting observations as he discusses his career and how he works. I think we all can find significant lessons we can use from his remarks. About the Guest: Hi! I'm Greg Schwem. a Chicago-based business humor speaker and MC who HuffPost calls “Your boss's favorite comedian.” I've traveled the world providing clean, customized laughs to clients such as Microsoft, IBM, McDonald's and even the CIA. I also write the bi-weekly Humor Hotel column for the Chicago Tribune syndicate. I believe every corporate event needs humor. As I often tell clients, “When times are good, people want to laugh. When times are bad, people need to laugh.” One Fortune 500 client summed things up perfectly, saying “You were fantastic and just what everybody needed during these times.” In September 2024 I released my third and most personal book, Turning Gut Punches into Punch Lines: A Comedian's Journey Through Cancer, Divorce and Other Hilarious Stuff. Don't worry, it's not one of those whiny, “woe is me,” self-serving books. Instead, it's a hilarious account of me living the words I've been preaching to my audiences: You can always find humor in every situation, even the tough ones. You can pick up a copy at Amazon or select book stores. Ways to connect with Greg: Website: www.gregschwem.com YouTube: www.youtube.com/gregschwem LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/gregschwem Instagram: www.instagram.com/gregschwem X: www.x.com/gregschwem About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:16 Hi everyone, and welcome to unstoppable mindset. Today we are going to definitely have some fun. I'll tell you about our guests in a moment, but first, I want to tell you about me. That'll take an hour or so. I am Michael Hingson, your host, and you're listening to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And I don't know, we may get inclusion or diversity into this, but our guest is Greg Schwem. Greg used to be a TV reporter, now he's a comedian, not sure which is funnier, but given some of the reporters I've seen on TV, they really should go into tonight club business. But anyway, Greg, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. I really appreciate you being here and taking the time   Greg Schwem ** 02:04 Well, Michael, it is an honor to be included on your show. I'm really looking forward to the next hour of conversation. I   Speaker 1 ** 02:10 told Greg a little while ago, one of my major life ambitions that I never got to do was to go to a Don Rickles concert and sit in the front row so that hopefully he would pick on me, so that I could say, Yeah, I saw you once on TV, and I haven't been able to see since. What do you think of that? You hockey puck, but I never got to do it. So very disappointed. But everybody has bucket list moments, everybody has, but they don't get around to I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. Well, the other one is, I love to pick on Mike Wallace. I did a radio show for six years opposite him in 60 minutes, and I always love to say that Wallace really had criminal tendencies, because he started out being an announcer in radio and he announced things like The Green Hornet and the Sky King and other shows where they had a lot of criminals. So I just figured he had to be associated with criminals somewhere in his life. Of course, everybody picked on him, and he had broad shoulders. And I again, I regret I never got to to meet him, which is sort of disappointing. But I did get to meet Peter Falk. That was kind of fun.   Greg Schwem ** 03:15 Mike Wallace to Peter Falk. Nice transition there. I know.   Michael Hingson ** 03:21 Well I am really glad you're with us. So why don't we start? We'll start with the serious part. Why don't you tell us, kind of about the early Greg schwim and growing up and all that sort of stuff, just to set the stage, as it were,   Greg Schwem ** 03:34 how far back you want to go? You want to go back to Little League, or you want to   Speaker 1 ** 03:37 just, oh, start at the beginning, a long time ago, right? I was a   Greg Schwem ** 03:41 very strange child. No, I you. You obviously introduced me as a as a comedian, and that is my full time job. And you also said that I was a former journalist, and that is my professional career. Yes, I went from, as I always like to say, I went from depressing people all day long, to making them laugh. And that's, that's kind of what I did. I always did want to be I majored in Journalism at Northwestern University, good journalism school. Originally, I always wanted to be a television reporter. That was as a professional career I was, I dabbled in comedy. Started when I was 16. That is the first time I ever got on stage at my school, my high school, and then at a comedy club. I was there one of the first comedy clubs in Chicago, a place called the comedy cottage. It was in the suburb of beautiful, beautiful suburb of Rosemont, Illinois, and they were one of the very, very first full time comedy clubs in the nation. And as a 16 year old kid, I actually got on stage and did five minutes here and five minutes there. And thought I was, I was hot stuff, but I never, ever thought I would do it for a living. I thought comedy would always be just a hobby. And I. Especially when I went to college, and I thought, okay, Northwestern is pretty good school, pretty expensive school. I should actually use my degree. And I did. I moved down to Florida, wrote for a newspaper called The Palm Beach post, which, don't let that title fool you. It's Palm Beach was a very small segment of of the area that it was, that it served, but I did comedy on the side, and just because I moved down there, I didn't know anybody, so I hung out at comedy clubs just to have something to do. And little by little, comedy in the late 80s, it exploded. Exploded. There were suddenly clubs popping up everywhere, and you were starting to get to know guys that were doing these clubs and were starting to get recognition for just being comedians. And one of them opened up a very, very good Club opened up about 10 minutes from my apartment in West Palm Beach, and I hung out there and started to get more stage time, and eventually started to realize at the same time that I was getting better as a comedian, I was becoming more disillusioned as a journalist in terms of what my bosses wanted me to report on and the tone they wanted me to use. And I just decided that I would I would just never be able to live with myself if I didn't try it, if I didn't take the the plunge into comedy, and that's what I did in 1989 and I've been doing it ever since. And my career has gone in multiple directions, as I think it needs to. If you're going to be in show business and sustain a career in show business, you have to wear a lot of different hats, which I feel like I've done.   Michael Hingson ** 06:40 So tell me more about that. What does that mean exactly?   Greg Schwem ** 06:43 Well, I mean, I started out as a what you would pretty much if somebody said, If you heard somebody say, I'm a comedian, they would envision some guy that just went to comedy clubs all the time, and that's what I did. I was just a guy that traveled by car all over the Midwest and the Southeast primarily, and did comedy clubs, but I quickly realized that was kind of a going nowhere way to attack it, to do comedy unless you were incredibly lucky, because there were so many guys doing it and so many clubs, and I just didn't see a future in it, and I felt like I had to separate myself from the pack a little bit. And I was living in Chicago, which is where I'm from, and still, still exist. Still reside in Chicago, and I started to get involved with a company that did live trade show presentations. So if you've ever been on a trade show floor and you see people, they're mostly actors and actresses that wear a headset and deliver a spiel, a pitch, like every, every twice an hour, about some company, some new product, and so forth. And I did that, and I started to write material about what I was seeing on trade show floors and putting it into my stand up act, stuff about business, stuff about technology, because I was Hawking a lot of new computers and things like that. This was the mid 90s when technology was exploding, and I started to put this into my stand up act. And then I'd have people come up to me afterwards and say, hey, you know those jokes you did about computers and tech support, if you could come down to our office, you know, we're having a golf tournament, we're having a Christmas party, we would love to hear that material. And little by little, I started transitioning my act into doing shows for the corporate market. I hooked up with a corporate agent, or the corporate agent heard about me, and started to open a lot of doors for me in terms of working for very large corporations, and that's pretty much what I've been doing. I stopped working clubs, and I transitioned, instead of being a comedian, I became a corporate humor speaker. And that's what I do, primarily to this day, is to speak at business conferences. Just kind of get people to loosen up, get them to laugh about what they do all day without without making it sound like I'm belittling what they do. And also when I'm not doing that, I work about eight to 10 weeks a year on cruise ships, performing for cruise audiences. So that's a nice getaway.   Speaker 1 ** 09:18 It's interesting since I mentioned Don Rickles earlier, years ago, I saw an interview that he did with Donahue, and one of the things that Don Rickles said, and after he said it, I thought about it. He said, I really don't want to pick on anyone who's going to be offended by me picking on them. He said, I try to watch really carefully, so that if it looks like somebody's getting offended, I'll leave them alone, because that's not what this is all about. It isn't about abusing people. It's about trying to get people to have fun, and if somebody's offended, I don't want to to pick on them, and I've heard a number of albums and other things with him and just. Noticed that that was really true. He wouldn't pick on someone unless they could take it and had a lot of fun with it. And I thought that was absolutely interesting, because that certainly wasn't, of course, the rep that he had and no, but it was   Greg Schwem ** 10:16 true. It is, and it doesn't take long to see as a as a comedian, when you're looking at an audience member and you're talking to them, it, you can tell very quickly, Are they enjoying this? Are they enjoying being the center of attention? A lot of people are, or are they uncomfortable with it? Now, I don't know that going in. I mean, I you know, of course. And again, that's a very small portion of my show is to talk to the audience, but it is something particularly today. I think audiences want to be more involved. I think they enjoy you talk you. Some of these, the new comedians in their 20s and 30s and so forth. Them, some of them are doing nothing, but what they call crowd work. So they're just doing 45 minutes of talking to the audience, which can be good and can be rough too, because you're working without a net. But I'm happy to give an audience a little bit of that. But I also have a lot of stuff that I want to say too. I mean, I work very hard coming up with material and and refining it, and I want to talk about what's going on in my life, too. So I don't want the audience to be the entire show, right?   Speaker 1 ** 11:26 And and they shouldn't be, because it isn't about that. But at the same time, it is nice to involve them. I find that as a keynote and public speaker, I find that true as well, though, is that audiences do like to be involved. And I do some things right at the outset of most talks to involve people, and also in involving them. I want to get them to last so that I start to draw them in, because later, when I tell the September 11 story, which isn't really a humorous thing. Directly,   Greg Schwem ** 12:04 i know i Good luck. I'm spinning 911 to make it I don't think I've ever heard anybody say, by the way, I was trapped in a building. Stick with me. It's kind of cute. It's got a funny ending. And   Speaker 1 ** 12:20 that's right, and it is hard I can, I can say humorous things along the way in telling the story, but, sure, right, but, but clearly it's not a story that, in of itself, is humorous. But what I realized over the years, and it's really dawned on me in the last four or five years is we now have a whole generation of people who have absolutely no memory of September 11 because they were children or they weren't even born yet. And I believe that my job is to not only talk about it, but literally to draw them into the building and have them walk down the stairs with me, and I have to be descriptive in a very positive way, so that they really are part of what's going on. And the reality is that I do hear people or people come up and say, we were with you when you were going down the stairs. And I think that's my job, because the reality is that we've got to get people to understand there are lessons to be learned from September 11, right? And the only real way to do that is to attract the audience and bring them in. And I think probably mostly, I'm in a better position to do that than most people, because I'm kind of a curious soul, being blind and all that, but it allows me to to draw them in and and it's fun to do that, actually. And I, and   Greg Schwem ** 13:52 I gotta believe, I mean, obviously I wasn't there, Michael, but I gotta believe there were moments of humor in people, a bunch of people going down the stairs. Sure, me, you put people get it's like, it's like when a bunch of people are in an elevator together, you know, I mean, there's I, when I look around and I try to find something humorous in a crowded and it's probably the same thing now, obviously it, you know, you got out in time. But I and, you know, don't that's the hotel phone, which I just hung up so but I think that I can totally see where you're going from, where, if you're if you're talking to people who have no recollection of this, have no memory where you're basically educating them on the whole event. I think you then you have the opportunity to tell the story in whatever way you see fit. And I think that however you choose to do it is there's no wrong way to do it, I guess is what I'm trying to get at.   Speaker 1 ** 14:55 Well, yeah, I think the wrong way is to be two. Graphic and morbid and morbid, but one of the things that I talk about, for example, is that a colleague of mine who was with me, David Frank, at about the 50th floor, suddenly said, Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And as as I tell the audience, typically, I as as you heard my introduction at the beginning, I have a secondary teaching credential. And one of the things that you probably don't know about teachers is that there's a secret course that every teacher takes called Voice 101, how to yell at students and and so what I tell people is that when David said that, I just said in my best teacher voice, stop it, David, if Roselle and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he told me later that that brought him out of his funk, and he ended up walking a floor below me and shouting up to me everything he saw. And it was just mainly, everything is clear, like I'm on floor 48 he's on 47/47 floor. Everything is good here, and what I have done for the past several years in telling that part of the story is to say David, in reality, probably did more to keep people calm and focused as we went down the stairs than anyone else, because anyone within the sound of his voice heard someone who was focused and sounded okay. You know, hey, I'm on the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is not stopping. And it it helps people understand that we all had to do what we could to keep everyone from not panicking. And it almost happened a few times that people did, but we worked at it. But the i The idea is that it helps draw people in, and I think that's so important to do for my particular story is to draw them in and have them walk down the stairs with me, which is what I do, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Now I'm curious about something that keeps coming up. I hear it every so often, public speaker, Speaker experts and people who are supposedly the great gurus of public speaking say you shouldn't really start out with a joke. And I've heard that so often, and I'm going give me a break. Well, I think, I think it depends, yeah, I think   Greg Schwem ** 17:33 there's two schools of thought to that. I think if you're going to start out with a joke, it better be a really good one, or something that you either has been battle tested, because if it doesn't work now, you, you know, if you're hoping for a big laugh, now you're saying, Well, you're a comedian, what do you do? You know, I mean, I, I even, I just sort of work my way into it a little bit. Yeah, and I'm a comedian, so, and, you know, it's funny, Michael, I will get, I will get. I've had CEOs before say to me, Hey, you know, I've got to give this presentation next week. Give me a joke I can tell to everybody. And I always decline. I always it's like, I don't need that kind of pressure. And it's like, I can, I can, I can tell you a funny joke, but,   Michael Hingson ** 18:22 but you telling the   Greg Schwem ** 18:23 work? Yeah, deliver it. You know, I can't deliver it for you. Yeah? And I think that's what I also, you know, on that note, I've never been a big fan of Stand Up Comedy classes, and you see them all popping up all over the place. Now, a lot of comedy clubs will have them, and usually the you take the class, and the carrot at the end is you get to do five minutes at a comedy club right now, if that is your goal, if you're somebody who always like, Gosh, I wonder what it would like be like to stand up on stage and and be a comedian for five minutes. That's something I really like to try. By all means, take the class, all right. But if you think that you're going to take this class and you're going to emerge a much funnier person, like all of a sudden you you weren't funny, but now you are, don't take the class, yeah? And I think, sadly, I think that a lot of people sign up for these classes thinking the latter, thinking that they will all of a sudden become, you know, a comedian. And it doesn't work that way. I'm sorry you cannot teach unfunny people to be funny. Yeah, some of us have the gift of it, and some of us don't. Some of us are really good with our hands, and just know how to build stuff and how to look at things and say, I can do that. And some of us, myself included, definitely do not. You know, I think you can teach people to be more comfortable, more comfortable in front of an audience and. Correct. I think that is definitely a teachable thing, but I don't think that you can teach people to be funnier   Speaker 1 ** 20:10 and funnier, and I agree with that. I tend to be amazed when I keep hearing that one of the top fears in our world is getting up in front of an audience and talking with them, because people really don't understand that audiences, whatever you're doing, want you to succeed, and they're not against you, but we have just conditioned ourselves collectively that speaking is something to be afraid of?   Greg Schwem ** 20:41 Yes, I think, though it's, I'm sure, that fear, though, of getting up in front of people has only probably been exacerbated and been made more intense because now everybody in the audience has a cell phone and to and to be looking out at people and to see them on their phones. Yeah, you're and yet, you prepped all day long. You've been nervous. You've been you probably didn't sleep the night before. If you're one of these people who are afraid of speaking in public, yeah, and then to see people on their phones. You know, it used to bother me. It doesn't anymore, because it's just the society we live in. I just, I wish, I wish people could put their phones down and just enjoy laughing for 45 minutes. But unfortunately, our society can't do that anymore, so I just hope that I can get most of them to stop looking at it.   Speaker 1 ** 21:32 I don't make any comments about it at the beginning, but I have, on a number of occasions, been delivering a speech, and I hear a cell phone ring, and I'll stop and go, Hello. And I don't know for sure what the person with the cell phone does, but by the same token, you know they really shouldn't be on their phone and and it works out, okay, nobody's ever complained about it. And when I just say hello, or I'll go Hello, you don't say, you know, and things like that, but, but I don't, I don't prolong it. I'll just go back to what I was talking about. But I remember, when I lived in New Jersey, Sandy Duncan was Peter Pan in New York. One night she was flying over the audience, and there was somebody on his cell phone, and she happened to be going near him, and she just kicked the phone out of his hand. And I think that's one of the things that started Broadway in saying, if you have a cell phone, turn it off. And those are the announcements that you hear at the beginning of any Broadway performance today.   Greg Schwem ** 22:39 Unfortunately, people don't abide by that. I know you're still hearing cell phones go off, yeah, you know, in Broadway productions at the opera or wherever, so people just can't and there you go. There that just shows you're fighting a losing battle.   Speaker 1 ** 22:53 Yeah, it's just one of those things, and you got to cope with it.   Greg Schwem ** 22:58 What on that note, though, there was, I will say, if I can interrupt real quick, there was one show I did where nobody had their phone. It was a few years ago. I spoke at the CIA. I spoke for some employees of the CIA. And this might, this might freak people out, because you think, how is it that America's covert intelligence agency, you think they would be on their phones all the time. No, if you work there, you cannot have your phone on you. And so I had an audience of about 300 people who I had their total attention because there was no other way to they had no choice but to listen to me, and it was wonderful. It was just a great show, and I it was just so refreshing. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 23:52 and mostly I don't hear cell phones, but they do come up from time to time. And if they do, then you know it happens. Now my one of my favorite stories is I once spoke in Maryland at the Department of Defense, which anybody who knows anything knows that's the National Security Agency, but they call it the Department of Defense, as if we don't know. And my favorite story is that I had, at the time, a micro cassette recorder, and it died that morning before I traveled to Fort Meade, and I forgot to just throw it away, and it was in my briefcase. So I got to the fort, they searched, apparently, didn't find it, but on the way out, someone found it. They had to get a bird Colonel to come to decide what to do with it. I said, throw it away. And they said, No, we can't do that. It's yours. And they they decided it didn't work, and they let me take it and I threw it away. But it was so, so funny to to be at the fort and see everybody running around crazy. See, what do we do with this micro cassette recorder? This guy's been here for an hour. Yeah. So it's it. You know, all sorts of things happen. What do you think about you know, there's a lot of discussion about comedians who use a lot of foul language in their shows, and then there are those who don't, and people seem to like the shock value of that.   Greg Schwem ** 25:25 Yeah, I'm very old school in that. I guess my short answer is, No, I've never, ever been one of those comedians. Ever I do a clean show, I actually learned my lesson very early on. I think I think that I think comedians tend to swear because when they first start out, out of nerves, because I will tell you that profanity does get laughter. And I've always said, if you want to, if you want to experiment on that, have a comedian write a joke, and let's say he's got two shows that night. Let's say he's got an eight o'clock show and a 10 o'clock show. So let's say he does the joke in the eight o'clock and it's, you know, the cadence is bumper, bump up, bump up, bump up, punch line. Okay, now let's and let's see how that plays. Now let's now he does the 10 o'clock show and it's bumper, bump up, bump up F and Okay, yeah, I pretty much guarantee you the 10 o'clock show will get a bigger laugh. Okay? Because he's sort of, it's like the audience is programmed like, oh, okay, we're supposed to laugh at that now. And I think a lot of comedians think, Aha, I have just discovered how to be successful as a comedian. I will just insert the F word in front of every punch line, and you can kind of tell what comedians do that and what comedians I mean. I am fine with foul language, but have some jokes in there too. Don't make them. Don't make the foul word, the joke, the joke, right? And I can say another thing nobody has ever said to me, I cannot hire you because you're too clean. I've never gotten that. And all the years I've been doing this, and I know there's lots of comedians who who do work blue, who have said, you know, who have been turned down for that very reason. So I believe, if you're a comedian, the only way to get better is to work any place that will have you. Yeah, and you can't, so you might as well work clean so you can work any place that will have you, as opposed to being turned away.   Speaker 1 ** 27:30 Well, and I, and I know what, what happened to him and all that, but at the same time, I grew up listening to Bill Cosby and the fact that he was always clean. And, yeah, I understand everything that happened, but you can't deny and you can't forget so many years of humor and all the things that that he brought to the world, and the joy he brought to the world in so many ways.   Greg Schwem ** 27:57 Oh, yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And he Yeah, he worked everywhere. Jay Leno is another one. I mean, Jay Leno is kind of on the same wavelength as me, as far as don't let the profanity become the joke. You know, Eddie Murphy was, you know, was very foul. Richard Pryor, extremely foul. I but they also, prior, especially, had very intelligent material. I mean, you can tell and then if you want to insert your F bombs and so forth, that's fine, but at least show me that you're trying. At least show me that you came in with material in addition to the   Speaker 1 ** 28:36 foul language. The only thing I really have to say about all that is it? Jay Leno should just stay away from cars, but that's another story.   Greg Schwem ** 28:43 Oh, yeah, it's starting to   Greg Schwem ** 28:47 look that way. Yeah, it   Michael Hingson ** 28:49 was. It was fun for a while, Jay, but yeah, there's just two. It's like, Harrison Ford and plains. Yeah, same concept. At some point you're like, this isn't working out. Now I submit that living here in Victorville and just being out on the streets and being driven around and all that, I am firmly convinced, given the way most people drive here, that the bigoted DMV should let me have a license, because I am sure I can drive as well as most of the clowns around here. Yeah, so when they drive, I have no doubt. Oh, gosh. Well, you know, you switched from being a TV journalist and so on to to comedy. Was it a hard choice? Was it really difficult to do, or did it just seem like this is the time and this is the right thing to do. I was   Greg Schwem ** 29:41 both, you know, it was hard, because I really did enjoy my job and I liked, I liked being a TV news reporter. I liked, I liked a job that was different every day once you got in there, because you didn't know what they were going to send you out to do. Yes, you had. To get up and go to work every day and so forth. So there's a little bit of, you know, there's a little bit of the mundane, just like there is in any job, but once you were there, I liked, just never known what the day would bring, right? And and I, I think if I'd stayed with it, I think I think I could have gone pretty far, particularly now, because the now it's more people on TV are becoming more entertainers news people are becoming, yeah, they are. A lot of would be, want to be comedians and so forth. And I don't particularly think that's appropriate, but I agree. But so it was hard to leave, but it gets back to what I said earlier. At some point, you got to say, I was seeing comedians making money, and I was thinking, gosh, you know, if they're making money at this I I'm not hilarious, but I know I'm funnier than that guy. Yeah, I'm funnier than her, so why not? And I was young, and I was single, and I thought, if I if I don't try it now, I never will. And, and I'll bet there's just some hilarious people out there, yeah, who who didn't ever, who just were afraid   Michael Hingson ** 31:14 to take that chance, and they wouldn't take the leap, yeah,   Greg Schwem ** 31:16 right. And now they're probably kicking themselves, and I'm sure maybe they're very successful at what they do, but they're always going to say, what if, if I only done this? I don't ever, I don't, ever, I never, ever wanted to say that. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 31:31 well, and there's, there's something to be said for being brave and stepping out and doing something that you don't expect, or that you didn't expect, or that you weren't sure how it was going to go, but if you don't try, then you're never going to know just how, how much you could really accomplish and how much you can really do. And I think that the creative people, whatever they're being creative about, are the people who do step out and are willing to take a chance.   Greg Schwem ** 31:59 Yeah, yeah. And I told my kids that too. You know, it's just like, if it's something that you're passionate about, do it. Just try it. If it doesn't work out, then at least you can say I tried   Speaker 1 ** 32:09 it and and if it doesn't work out, then you can decide, what do I need to do to figure out why it didn't work out, or is it just not me? I want   Greg Schwem ** 32:18 to keep going? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 32:21 So what is the difference between being a nightclub comedian and a corporate comedian? Because they are somewhat different. I think I know the answer. But what would you say that the differences between them? I think   Greg Schwem ** 32:33 the biggest thing is the audiences. I think when you when you are a nightclub comedian, you are working in front of people who are there to be entertained. Yeah, they, they paid money for that. That's what they're expecting. They, they, at some point during the day, they said, Hey, let's, let's go laugh tonight. That's what we really want to do when you're working in front of a corporate audiences. That's not necessarily the case. They are there. I primarily do business conferences and, you know, association meetings and so forth. And I'm just one cog in the wheel of a whole day's worth of meetings are, for the most part, very dry and boring, maybe certainly necessary educational. They're learning how to do their job better or something. And then you have a guy like me come in, and people aren't always ready to laugh, yeah, despite the fact that they probably need to, but they just they're not always in that mindset. And also the time of day. I mean, I do a lot of shows at nine in the morning. I do shows after lunch, right before lunch. I actually do very few shows in the evening, believe it or not. And so then you you have to, you kind of have to, in the while you're doing your act or your presentation or your speech, as I call it, you kind of have to let them know that it is okay. What you're doing is okay, and they should be okay with laughing. They shouldn't be looking around the whole time wondering if other people are laughing. You know, can I, can I? Can I tell you a quick story about how I drive that point home. Why not? Yeah, it's, I'll condense it into like five minutes. I mentioned that I worked on that I work on cruise ships occasionally, and I one night I was performing, and it was the first night of the cruise. And if anybody's ever been on a cruise, note, the first night, first night entertainers don't like the first night because people are tired. You know, they're they're a little edgy because they've been traveling all day. They're they're confused because they're not really sure where they're going on a ship. And the ones that have got it figured out usually over serve themselves because they're on vacation. So you put all that, so I'm doing my show on the first. Night, and it's going very well. And about five, six minutes in, I do a joke. Everybody laughs. Everybody shuts up. And from the back of the room in total darkness, I hear hat just like that. And I'm like, All right, you know, probably over served. So the rule of comedy is that everybody gets like. I was like, I'll let it go once, yeah. So I just kind of looked off in that direction, didn't say anything. Kept going with my active going with my act. About 10 minutes later, same thing happens. I tell a joke. Everybody laughs. Everybody shuts up. Hat now I'm like, Okay, I have got to, I've got to address the elephant in the room. So I think I just made some comment, like, you know, I didn't know Roseanne Barr was on this cruise, you know, because that was like the sound of the Yeah. Okay, everybody laugh. Nothing happened about five minutes later. It happens a third time. And now I'm just like, this is gonna stop. I'm going to put a stop to this. And I just fired off. I can't remember, like, three just like, hey man, you know you're you're just a little behind everybody else in this show and probably in life too, that, you know, things like that, and it never happened again. So I'm like, okay, mission accomplished on my part. Comedians love it when we can shut up somebody like that. Anyway. Show's over, I am out doing a meet and greet. Some guy comes up to me and he goes, hey, hey, you know that kid you were making fun of is mentally handicapped. And now, of course, I don't know this, but out of the corner of my eye, I see from the other exit a man pushing a son, his son in a wheelchair out of the showroom. And I'm just like, Oh, what have I done? And yeah. And of course, when you're on a cruise, you're you're on a cruise. When you're a cruise ship entertainer, you have to live with your audience. So I couldn't hide. I spent like the next three days, and it seemed like wherever I was, the man and his son in the wheelchair were nearby. And finally, on the fourth day, I think was, I was waiting for an elevator. Again, 3500 people on this ship, okay, I'm waiting for an elevator. The elevator door opens. Guess who are the only two people the elevator, the man and his son. And I can't really say I'll wait for the next one. So I get on, and I said to this the father, I said, I just want you to know I had no idea. You know, I'm so sorry. I can't see back there, this kind of thing. And the dad looks at me. He puts his hand up to stop me, and he points to me, and he goes, I thought you were hysterical. And it was, not only was it relief, but it kind of, it's sort of a lesson that if you think something is funny, you should laugh at it. Yeah. And I think sometimes in corporate America, my point in this. I think sometimes when you do these corporate shows, I think that audience members forget that. I think very busy looking around to see if their immediate boss thinks it's funny, and eventually everybody's looking at the CEO to see if they're like, you know, I think if you're doing it that way, if that's the way you're you're approaching humor. You're doing yourself a disservice, if right, stopping yourself from laughing at something that you think is funny.   Speaker 1 ** 38:09 I do think that that all too often the problem with meetings is that we as a as a country, we in corporations, don't do meetings, right anyway, for example, early on, I heard someone at a convention of the National Federation of the Blind say he was the new executive director of the American Foundation for the Blind, and he said, I have instituted a policy, no Braille, no meetings. And what that was all about was to say, if you're going to have a meeting, you need to make sure that all the documentation is accessible to those who aren't going to read the print. I take it further and say you shouldn't be giving out documentation during the meeting. And you can use the excuse, well, I got to get the latest numbers and all that. And my point is, you shouldn't be giving out documentation at a meeting, because the meeting is for people to communicate and interact with each other. And if you're giving out papers and so on, what are people going to do? They're going to read that, and they're not going to listen to the speakers. They're not going to listen to the other people. And we do so many things like that, we've gotten into a habit of doing things that become so predictable, but also make meetings very boring, because who wants to look at the papers where you can be listening to people who have a lot more constructive and interesting things to say anyway?   Greg Schwem ** 39:36 Yeah, yeah. I think, I think COVID definitely changed, some for the some for the better and some for the worse. I think that a lot of things that were done at meetings COVID and made us realize a lot of that stuff could be done virtually, that you didn't have to just have everybody sit and listen to people over and over and over again.   Speaker 1 ** 39:58 But unless you're Donald Trump. Up. Yeah, that's another story.   Greg Schwem ** 40:02 Yes, exactly another podcast episode. But, yeah, I do think also that. I think COVID changed audiences. I think, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about crowd work, right, and audiences wanting to be more involved. I think COVID precipitated that, because, if you think about it, Michael, for two and a half years during COVID, our sole source of entertainment was our phone, right? Which meant that we were in charge of the entertainment experience. You don't like something, swipe left, scroll down, scroll, scroll, scroll, find something else. You know, that kind of thing. I'm not I'm not entertained in the next four or five seconds. So I'm going to do this. And I think when live entertainment returned, audiences kind of had to be retrained a little bit, where they had to learn to sit and listen and wait for the entertainment to come to them. And granted, it might not happen immediately. It might not happen in the first five seconds, but you have to just give give people like me a chance. It will come to you. It will happen, but it might not be on your timetable,   Speaker 1 ** 41:13 right? Well, and I think that is all too true for me. I didn't find didn't find COVID to be a great inconvenience, because I don't look at the screen anyway, right? So in a sense, for me, COVID wasn't that much of a change, other than not being in an office or not being physically at a meeting, and so I was listening to the meeting on the computer, and that has its nuances. Like you don't necessarily get the same information about how everyone around you is reacting, but, but it didn't bother me, I think, nearly as much as it did everyone else who has to look at everyone. Of course, I have no problems picking on all those people as well, because what I point out is that that disabilities has to be redefined, because every one of you guys has your own disability. You're light dependent, and you don't do well when there's dark, when, when the dark shows up and and we now have an environment where Thomas Edison invented the electric light bulb, and we've spent the last 147 years doing everything we can to make sure that light is pretty ubiquitous, but it doesn't change a thing when suddenly the power goes out and you don't have immediate access to light. So that's as much a disability as us light, independent people who don't   Greg Schwem ** 42:36 care about that, right? Right? I hear, I agree, but it is but   Speaker 1 ** 42:41 it is interesting and and it is also important that we all understand each other and are willing to tolerate the fact that there are differences in people, and we need to recognize that with whatever we're doing.   42:53 Yeah, I agree.   Speaker 1 ** 42:57 What do you think about so today, we have obviously a really fractured environment and fractured country, and everyone's got their own opinions, and nobody wants to talk about anything, especially politics wise. How do you think that's all affecting comedy and what you get to do and what other people are doing?   Greg Schwem ** 43:18 Well, I think Pete, I think there's, there's multiple answers to that question too. I think, I think it makes people nervous, wondering what the minute a comedian on stage brings up politics, the minute he starts talking about a politician, whether it's our president, whether it's somebody else, you can sense a tension in the room a little bit, and it's, it's, I mean, it's funny. I, one of my best friends in comedy, got to open for another comedian at Carnegie Hall a couple of years ago, and I went to see him, and I'm sitting way up in the top, and he is just crushing it. And then at one point he he brought up, he decided to do an impression of Mitch McConnell, which he does very well. However, the minute he said, Mitch McConnell, I you could just sense this is Carnegie freaking Hall, and after the show, you know, he and I always like to dissect each other's shows. That's what comedians do. And I just said to him, I go. Why did you decide to insert Mitch McConnell in there? And I, and I didn't say it like, you moron, that was stupid, yeah, but I was genuinely curious. And he just goes, well, I just really like doing that bit, and I like doing that voice and so forth, but, and it's not like the show crashed and burned afterwards. No, he did the joke, and then he got out of it, and he went on to other stuff, and it was fine, but I think that people are just so on their guard now, yeah, and, and that's why, you know, you know Jay Leno always said he was an equal opportunity offender. I think you will do better with politics if you really want. Insert politics into your act. I think he would be better making fun of both sides. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. And I think too often comedians now use the the stage as kind of a Bully, bully pulpit, like I have microphone and you don't. I am now going to give you my take on Donald Trump or the Democrats or whatever, and I've always said, talk about anything you want on stage, but just remember, you're at a comedy club. People came to laugh. So is there a joke in here? Yeah, or are you just ranting because you gotta be careful. You have to get this off your chest, and your way is right. It's, it's, you know, I hate to say it, but that's, that's why podcast, no offense, Michael, yours, is not like this. But I think one of the reasons podcasters have gotten so popular is a lot of people, just a lot of podcast hosts see a podcast is a chance to just rant about whatever's on their mind. And it's amazing to me how many podcast hosts that are hosted by comedians have a second guy have a sidekick to basically laugh and agree with whatever that person says. I think Joe Rogan is a classic example, and he's one of the most popular ones. But, and I don't quite understand that, because you know, if you're a comedian, you you made the choice to work solo, right? So why do you need somebody else with you?   Speaker 1 ** 46:33 I'm I'm fairly close to Leno. My remark is a little bit different. I'm not so much an equal opportunity offender as I am an equal opportunity abuser. I'll pick on both sides if politics comes into it at all, and it's and it's fun, and I remember when George W Bush was leaving the White House, Letterman said, Now we're not going to have anybody to joke about anymore. And everyone loved it. But still, I recognize that in the world today, people don't want to hear anything else. Don't confuse me with the facts or any of that, and it's so unfortunate, but it is the way it is, and so it's wiser to stay away from a lot of that, unless you can really break through the barrier,   Greg Schwem ** 47:21 I think so. And I also think that people, one thing you have to remember, I think, is when people come to a comedy show, they are coming to be entertained. Yeah, they are coming to kind of escape from the gloom and doom that unfortunately permeates our world right now. You know? I mean, I've always said that if you, if you walked up to a comedy club on a Saturday night, and let's say there were 50 people waiting outside, waiting to get in, and you asked all 50 of them, what do you hope happens tonight? Or or, Why are you here? All right, I think from all 50 you would get I would just like to laugh, yeah, I don't think one of them is going to say, you know, I really hope that my opinions on what's happening in the Middle East get challenged right now, but he's a comedian. No one is going to say that. No, no. It's like, I hope I get into it with the comedian on stage, because he thinks this way about a woman's right to choose, and I think the other way. And I really, really hope that he and I will get into an argument about to the middle of the   Speaker 1 ** 48:37 show. Yeah, yeah. That's not why people come?   Greg Schwem ** 48:40 No, it's not. And I, unfortunately, I think again, I think that there's a lot of comedians that don't understand that. Yeah, again, talk about whatever you want on stage, but just remember that your your surroundings, you if you build yourself as a comedian,   48:56 make it funny. Yeah, be funny.   Speaker 1 ** 49:00 Well, and nowadays, especially for for you, for me and so on, we're we're growing older and and I think you point out audiences are getting younger. How do you deal with that?   Greg Schwem ** 49:12 Well, what I try to do is I a couple of things. I try to talk as much as I can about topics that are relevant to a younger generation. Ai being one, I, one of the things I do in my my show is I say, oh, you know, I I really wasn't sure how to start off. And when you're confused these days, you you turn to answer your questions. You turn to chat GPT, and I've actually written, you know, said to chat GPT, you know, I'm doing a show tonight for a group of construction workers who work in the Midwest. It's a $350 million company, and it says, try to be very specific. Give me a funny opening line. And of course, chat GPT always comes up with some. Something kind of stupid, which I then relate to the audience, and they love that, you know, they love that concept. So I think there's, obviously, there's a lot of material that you can do on generational differences, but I, I will say I am very, very aware that my audience is, for the most part, younger than me now, unless I want to spend the rest of my career doing you know, over 55 communities, not that they're not great laughers, but I also think there's a real challenge in being older than your audience and still being able to make them laugh. But I think you have to remember, like you said, there's there's people now that don't remember 911 that have no concept of it, yeah, so don't be doing references from, say, the 1980s or the early 1990s and then come off stage and go, Man, nobody that didn't hit at all. No one, no one. They're stupid. They don't get it. Well, no, they, they, it sounds they don't get it. It's just that they weren't around. They weren't around, right? So that's on you.   Speaker 1 ** 51:01 One of the things that you know people ask me is if I will do virtual events, and I'll do virtual events, but I also tell people, the reason I prefer to do in person events is that I can sense what the audience is doing, how they're reacting and what they feel. If I'm in a room speaking to people, and I don't have that same sense if I'm doing something virtually, agreed same way. Now for me, at the same time, I've been doing this now for 23 years, so I have a pretty good idea in general, how to interact with an audience, to draw them in, even in a virtual environment, but I still tend to be a little bit more careful about it, and it's just kind of the way it is, you know, and you and you learn to deal with it well for you, have you ever had writer's block, and how did you deal with it?   Greg Schwem ** 51:57 Yes, I have had writer's block. I don't I can't think of a single comedian who's never had writer's block, and if they say they haven't, I think they're lying when I have writer's block, the best way for me to deal with this and just so you know, I'm not the kind of comedian that can go that can sit down and write jokes. I can write stories. I've written three books, but I can't sit down and just be funny for an hour all by myself. I need interaction. I need communication. And I think when I have writer's block, I tend to go out and try and meet strangers and can engage them in conversation and find out what's going on with them. I mean, you mentioned about dealing with the younger audience. I am a big believer right now in talking to people who are half my age. I like doing that in social settings, because I just, I'm curious. I'm curious as to how they think. I'm curious as to, you know, how they spend money, how they save money, how what their hopes and dreams are for the future, what that kind of thing, and that's the kind of stuff that then I'll take back and try and write material about. And I think that, I think it's fun for me, and it's really fun to meet somebody who I'll give you a great example just last night. Last night, I was I there's a there's a bar that I have that's about 10 a stone's throw from my condo, and I love to stop in there and and every now and then, sometimes I'll sit there and I won't meet anybody, and sometimes different. So there was a guy, I'd say he's probably in his early 30s, sitting too over, and he was reading, which I find intriguing, that people come to a bar and read, yeah, people do it, I mean. And I just said to him, I go, and he was getting ready to pay his bill, and I just said, if you don't mind me asking, What are you reading? And he's like, Oh, it's by Ezra Klein. And I go, you know, I've listened to Ezra Klein before. And he goes, Yeah, you know? He says, I'm a big fan. And debt to debt to dad. Next thing, you know, we're just, we're just riffing back and forth. And I ended up staying. He put it this way, Michael, it took him a very long time to pay his bill because we had a conversation, and it was just such a pleasure to to people like that, and I think that, and it's a hard thing. It's a hard thing for me to do, because I think people are on their guard, a little bit like, why is this guy who's twice my age talking to me at a bar? That's that seems a little weird. And I would get that. I can see that. But as I mentioned in my latest book, I don't mean because I don't a whole chapter to this, and I I say in the book, I don't mean you any harm. I'm not trying to hit on you, or I'm not creepy old guy at the bar. I am genuinely interested in your story. And. In your life, and and I just, I want to be the least interesting guy in the room, and that's kind of how I go about my writing, too. Is just you, you drive the story. And even though I'm the comedian, I'll just fill in the gaps and make them funny.   Speaker 1 ** 55:15 Well, I know that I have often been invited to speak at places, and I wondered, What am I going to say to this particular audience? How am I going to deal with them? They're they're different than what I'm used to. What I found, I guess you could call that writer's block, but what I found is, if I can go early and interact with them, even if I'm the very first speaker, if I can interact with them beforehand, or if there are other people speaking before me, invariably, I will hear things that will allow me to be able to move on and give a relevant presentation specifically to that group, which is what it's really all about. And so I'm with you, and I appreciate it, and it's good to get to the point where you don't worry about the block, but rather you look at ways to move forward and interact with people and make it fun, right,   Greg Schwem ** 56:13 right? And I do think people, I think COVID, took that away from us a little bit, yeah, obviously, but I but, and I do think people missed that. I think that people, once you get them talking, are more inclined to not think that you're you have ulterior motives. I think people do enjoy putting their phones down a little bit, but it's, it's kind of a two way street when I, when I do meet people, if it's if it's only me asking the questions, eventually I'm going to get tired of that. Yeah, I think there's a, there has to be a reciprocity thing a little bit. And one thing I find is, is with the Gen Z's and maybe millennials. They're not, they're not as good at that as I think they could be. They're more they're they're happy to talk about themselves, but they're not really good at saying so what do you do for a living? Or what you know, tell me about you. And I mean, that's how you learn about other people. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 57:19 tell me about your your latest book, Turning gut punches into punchlines. That's a interesting title, yeah, well, the more   Greg Schwem ** 57:26 interesting is the subtitle. So it's turning gut punches into punch punch lines, A Comedian's journey through cancer, divorce and other hilarious stuff.   Speaker 1 ** 57:35 No, like you haven't done anything in the world. Okay, right? So   Greg Schwem ** 57:38 other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln. Yeah, exactly. See, now you get that reference. I don't know if I could use that on stage, but anyway, depend on your audience. But yeah, they're like, What's he talking   Speaker 1 ** 57:50 who's Lincoln? And I've been to Ford theater too, so that's okay, yes, as have I. So it was much later than, than, well, than Lincoln, but that's okay.   Greg Schwem ** 57:58 You're not that old, right? No. Well, okay, so as the title, as the title implies, I did have sort of a double, double gut punch, it just in the last two years. So I, I got divorced late in life, after 29 years of marriage. And while that was going on, I got a colon cancer diagnosis and and at this end, I was dealing with all this while also continuing work as a humor speaker, okay, as a comedian. And I just decided I got it. First of all, I got a very clean bill of health. I'm cancer free. I am finally divorced so and I, I started to think, I wonder if there's some humor in this. I I would, I would, you know, Michael, I've been on stage for like, 25 years telling people that, you know, you can find something funny to laugh at. You can find humor in any situation. It's kind of like what you're talking about all the people going down the stairs in the building in the world trade center. All right, if you look around enough, you know, maybe there's something funny, and I've been preaching that, but I never really had to live that until now. And I thought, you know, maybe there's something here. Maybe I can this is my chance now to embrace new experiences. It was kind of when I got divorced, when you've been married half your life and all of a sudden you get divorced, everything's new to you, yeah, you're, you're, you're living alone, you you're doing things that your spouse did, oh, so many years. And you're having to do those, and you're having to make new friends, yeah, and all of that, I think, is very humorous. So the more I saw a book in there that I started writing before the cancer diagnosis, and I thought was there enough here? Just like, okay, a guy at 60 years old gets divorced now what's going to happen to him? The diagnosis? Kind. Made it just added another wrinkle to the book, because now I have to deal with this, and I have to find another subject to to make light of a little bit. So the book is not a memoir, you know, I don't start it off. And, you know, when I was seven, you know, I played, you know, I was, I went to this school night. It's not that. It's more just about reinvention and just seeing that you can be happy later in life, even though you have to kind of rewrite your your story a little   Speaker 1 ** 1:00:33 bit. And I would assume, and I would assume, you bring some of that into your ACT every so   Greg Schwem ** 1:00:38 very much. So yeah, I created a whole new speech called Turning gut punches into punchlines. And I some of the stuff that I, that I did, but, you know, there's a chapter in the book about, I about gig work, actually three chapters I, you know, I went to work for Amazon during the Christmas holiday rush, just scanning packages. I wanted to see what that was like. I drove for Uber I which I did for a while. And to tell you the truth, I miss it. I ended up selling my car, but I miss it because of the what we just talked about. It was a great way to communicate with people. It was a great way to talk to people, find out about them, be the least interesting person in the car, anyway. And there's a chapter about dating and online dating, which I had not had to do in 30 years. There's a lot of humor in that. I went to therapy. I'd never gone to therapy before. I wrote a chapter about that. So I think people really respond to this book, because they I think they see a lot of themselves in it. You know, lots of people have been divorced. There's lots of cancer survivors out there, and there's lots of people who just suddenly have hit a speed bump in their life, and they're not really sure how to deal with it, right? And my way, this book is just about deal with it through laughter. And I'm the perfect example.   Speaker 1 ** 1:01:56 I hear you, Oh, I I know, and I've been through the same sort of thing as you not a divorce, but my wife and I were married for 40 years, and she passed away in November of 2022 after 40 years of marriage. And as I tell people, as I tell people, I got to be really careful, because she's monitoring me from somewhere, and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it, so I got to be a good kid, and I don't even chase the women so. But I also point out that none of them have been chasing me either, so I guess I just do what we got to do. But the reality is, I think there are always ways to find some sort of a connection with other people, and then, of course, that's what what you do. It's all about creating a connection, creating a relationship, even if it's only for a couple of hours or an hour or 45 minutes, but, but you do it, which is what it's all about?   Greg Schwem ** 1:02:49 Yeah, exactly. And I think the funniest stuff is real life experience. Oh, absolutely, you know. And if people can see themselves in in what I've written, then I've done my job as a writer.   Speaker 1 ** 1:03:03 So do you have any plans to retire?   Greg Schwem ** 1:03:06 Never. I mean, good for you retire from what   1:03:09 I know right, making fun of people   Greg Schwem ** 1:03:12 and making them laugh. I mean, I don't know what I would do with myself, and even if I there's always going to be I don't care how technology, technologically advanced our society gets. People will always want and need to laugh. Yeah, they're always going to want to do that. And if they're want, if they're wanting to do that, then I will find, I will find a way to get to them. And that's why I, as I said, That's why, like working on cruise ships has become, like a new, sort of a new avenue for me to make people laugh. And so, yeah, I don't I there's, there's no way. I don't know what else I would do with   Speaker 1 ** 1:03:53 myself, well and from my perspective, as long as I can inspire people, yes, I can make people think a little bit and feel better about themselves. I'm going to do it right. And, and, and I do. And I wrote a book during COVID that was published last August called Live like a guide dog. And it's all about helping people learn to control fear. And I use lessons I learned from eight guide dogs and my wife service dog to do that. My wife was in a wheelchair her whole life. Great marriage. She read, I pushed worked out well, but, but the but the but the bottom line is that dogs can teach us so many lessons, and there's so much that we can learn from them. So I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to create this book and and get it out there. And I think that again, as long as I can continue to inspire people, I'm going to do it. Because   Greg Schwem ** 1:04:47 why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't I exactly right? Yeah, yeah. So,   Speaker 1 ** 1:04:51 I mean, I think if I, if I stopped, I think my wife would beat up on me, so I gotta be nice exactly. She's monitoring from somewhere

As Zohran Mamdani's rise reshapes New York politics, is democratic socialism becoming the Democratic Party's new base? Host Charles Fain Lehman sits down with Reihan Salam, Judge Glock, and John Ketcham to dissect the political and cultural currents pushing the party left—from Instagram primaries and “free stuff” populism to the ideological split between AOC and the Ezra Klein crowd. Along the way, they dig into anti-institutionalism, social media as a news engine, and the strange allure of David Goggins.

Today we are revisiting an October 2023 Berkeley Talks episode in which Ezra Klein, a New York Times columnist and host of the podcast The Ezra Klein Show, discusses the difficulties liberal governments encounter when working to build real things in the real world. He joins in a conversation with Amy Lerman, a UC Berkeley political scientist and director of the Possibility Lab.“To have the future we want, we need to build and invent more of the things that we need,” begins Klein, who has since published the 2025 book Abundance with co-author Derek Thompson. “It's so stupidly simple, so obvious, that it seems weird there could be any need to write articles or podcasts or truly, God forbid, a book about it.” “And yet,” he continues, “the story of America in the 21st century — more than that, the story of liberalism, and particularly California liberalism — is a story of chosen scarcity.” Klein argues that while liberal governments are ambitious in their aims, like addressing climate change, building affordable housing or expanding infrastructure, they are often hampered by the very procedural safeguards and checks designed to protect rights and ensure public input.There are things, he says, that we have an abundance of now — flat screen TVs, iPhones — but we need more of the things that will make real the world in which many of us want to live: “A world where we're not cooking the planet, a world where a firefighter who works to keep San Francisco from burning down can live in the city he works on the daily to save, a world where there is access to the medical care and medications that people need. I care about working backwards from the world I want to the things we need to get there.”This event took place on Oct. 5, 2023, in UC Berkeley's Zellerbach Hall. It was co-presented by Cal Performances and UC Berkeley Graduate Lectures as part of the Jefferson Memorial Lecture Series.Watch a video of the event on the Graduate Lectures website.Listen to the episode and read the transcript on UC Berkeley News (news.berkeley.edu/podcasts).Music by HoliznaCC0.Photo by Lucas Foglia. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From center-left Ezra Klein to right-wing Matt Walsh, the fertility panic is an elite fixation that is rooted in a human supremacist worldview and a deep fear of slowing growth. Samuel Miller McDonald, geographer and author of the book Progress: A History of Humanity's Worst Idea, exposes how our parasitic relationship with Earth lies at the core of ecological overshoot, and why resisting authoritarianism in an age of contraction means embracing a pluralistic and just degrowth vision. Highlights include: Why our modern relationship to Earth is fundamentally parasitic - regardless of whether societies are capitalist or socialist; How media commentators resist degrowth in various stages and how their rejection reveals their lack of maturity in accepting responsibility for the ecological destruction we are causing; Why degrowth policies and practices should emphasize pluralistic, context-specific approaches rooted in democratic participation, not top-down master plans; Why many degrowth proponents have been dismissive of population concerns; Why the political right is more poised to benefit from ongoing economic contraction and why the liberal 'abundance agenda' needs to be resisted; Why conviviality and class solidarity are key to a successful degrowth transition and how modern societies undermine them; Why core values like fairness, autonomy, and ecological integrity will be essential in resisting authoritarians' claims to power in the coming challenging decades. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/samuel-miller-mcdonald   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Subscribe to our newsletter here: https://www.populationbalance.org/subscribe Support our work with a one-time or monthly donation: https://www.populationbalance.org/donate Learn more at https://www.populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

In this episode of Econ 102, we're republishing a conversation between Noah Smith and Derek Thompson. They explore Derek's shift from The Atlantic to Substack and unpack the “abundance agenda” — a vision for revitalizing American politics through better housing, energy, and innovation policy. Their wide-ranging conversation touches on economic reform, trendspotting, and the evolving media landscape. – SPONSORS: NetSuite More than 42,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shopify Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at ⁠⁠⁠https://shopify.com/momentofzen⁠⁠⁠. AdQuick The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world. – SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: Econ102@Turpentine.co – FOLLOW ON X: @noahpinion @DKThomp @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia – RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE: Derek Thompson Substack: https://www.derekthompson.org/ Abundance: https://www.amazon.com/Abundance-Progress-Takes-Ezra-Klein/dp/1668023482 Paul Krugman: https://paulkrugman.substack.com/ Noahpinion: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ – TAKEAWAYS: Derek's Move to Substack: Derek left The Atlantic after 17 years to join Substack, driven by "party wanderlust" - seeing the vibrant community of writers like Noah, Matt Yglesias, and others. Art of Trend Spotting: Noah praises Derek's unique ability to identify major trends before others, noting he's "earlier to spot new and important trends than any other blogger or writer." Derek reveals his method involves paying attention to that inner voice asking "what the fuck is that?" about everyday observations - essentially being like "observational humor but not necessarily humorous." Abundance Agenda's Impact: The conversation reveals how the abundance movement has gained significant traction, with Derek noting that partnering with Ezra Klein was strategic since Klein has unique influence within Democratic circles. They discuss "Ezra Klein Derangement Syndrome" - how Klein's prominence makes him both influential and a target. Need to attack MAGA degrowth ideology: Abundance advocates should more aggressively counter Trump's "scarcity mindset" that responds to every shortage with deprivation rather than increased production. Federal housing incentives: Race-to-the-top style funding to reward localities for pro-housing policies.

On maintaining sanity in insane times. Ezra Klein is an opinion columnist and host of the award-winning Ezra Klein Show podcast at The New York Times. His latest book is Abundance, co-authored with Derek Thompson. He is also the author of Why We're Polarized, an instant New York Times bestseller, named one of Barack Obama's top books of 2022. He lives in Brooklyn, New York. In this episode we talk about: How Ezra maintains some degree of equanimity Digital hygiene Ezra's meditation practice Ezra's tattoo, which is a reminder to maintain intellectual humility Ezra's new end of the day ritual The future of the species at what appears to be a pivotal moment. Related Episodes: How to Be a Good and Sane Citizen in Ugly Times | Ezra Klein Ezra Klein, How We Interact with Politics Matters Join Dan's online community here Follow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTok Subscribe to our YouTube Channel   To advertise on the show, contact sales@advertisecast.com or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris  

Air Date: 6–30-25 Today, Jay!, Amanda, Deon, and Erin discuss: Shifting the way we think and talk about the benefits of peaceful nonviolence at anti-fascist protests  The unlimited patience for capitalism vs. the knee-jerk “Impossible!” for left-wing ideas The centrists Democrats (and their consultants) missing the forest for the trees An antidote to decades of neoliberal approaches to policy (and we reject Ezra Klein's “Abundance”)   FOLLOW US ON:  Bluesky Mastadon Instagram Facebook YouTube Nostr public key: npub1tjxxp0x5mcgl2svwhm39qf002st2zdrkz6yxmaxr6r2fh0pv49qq2pem0e   REFERENCES: Trump's Manufactured Crisis and the Urgency of Strategic Nonviolence - In These Times A Song of “Full Self-Driving”: Elon Isn't Tony Stark. He's Michael Scott. - The Bulwark They Always Call You Unrealistic - Current Affairs The Gobs of Money and Lack of Vision at the Heart of Centrism - In These Times Red Tape Isn't the Only Reason America Can't Build - The Atlantic SOLVED! SONG! Concepts: Human Intelligence * Song: Artificial Intelligence: “Make Some Enemies” inspired directly by SOLVED! #13: “How to Make Enemies and Influence People” (June 30, 2025)     TAKE ACTION: Use the 5 Calls app for scripts and to reach all your elected officials about stopping the Big Stupid Cruel Bill Capitol Switchboard: 202-224-3121 July 17th - National Day of Action - Good Trouble Lives On Find your Indivisible group - or start one Write to the DNC   Join our Discord Server Reach us via Signal: Bestoftheleft.01 Leave a message at 202-999-3991   Produced by: Jay! Tomlinson Thanks for listening! Visit us at BestOfTheLeft.com Contact me directly at Jay@BestOfTheLeft.com  Review the show on Apple Podcasts!

The intellectual-political discussion of the so-called abundance movement typically is described as a debate taking place almost entirely on the left. But in fact many of its major themes were being discussed in right-leaning circles decades ago. Virginia Postrel, a libertarian thinker and journalist who was the former editor-in-chief of Reason magazine, anticipated much of the current discourse around abundance in her classic 1998 book The Future and Its Enemies: The Growing Conflict Over Creativity, Enterprise, and Progress. Even earlier, in 1990, Postrel was among the first to see that the most important ideological division that was emerging in American politics was not between left and right but between what she called “the proponents of economic dynamism and the advocates of stasis.” The power of Postrel's prophecy is evident from even a cursory examination of current politics, in which debates over issues like trade, immigration, housing construction, energy production, and environmental conservation inevitably produce odd-bedfellows coalitions of left and right. Postrel generally approves of center-left advocates of abundance like Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson — since, as she puts it, they share “the convictions that more is better than less, and that a good society is not zero-sum.” But she recently criticized the Klein-Thompson bestseller Abundance for its essentially technocratic mindset, in which change proceeds from central planning without what Postrel regards as sufficient feedback from market mechanisms or public input. She envisions a more libertarian-inflected version of abundance characterized by what she calls “a more emergent, bottom-up approach, imagining an open-ended future that relies less on direction by smart guys with political authority and more on grassroots experimentation, competition, and criticism.”In this podcast conversation, Postrel analyzes different approaches to what she considers to be the linked causes of abundance and progress — although she notes that progress “tends to code a little right and tends to be more libertarian, more Silicon Valley people” — along with the basic political division between advocates of stasis and dynamism. She talks about her South Carolina origins and her study of the Renaissance, “when dynamism was invented.” She points out that her analysis of dynamism in some measure derived from her love of — and worries about — her adoptive state of California. She discusses some of the thinkers who influenced her analysis, including innovators like Stewart Brand, writers like Jonathan Rauch, Daniel Boorstin, and Henry Petroski, and economists including Friedrich Hayek, Michael Polyani, Mancur Olson, and Paul Romer. And she describes how her interests in dynamism and human invention relate to her interests in textiles, design, fashion, and aesthetics. 

Author Marc Dunkelman discusses his new book Why Nothing Works: Who Killed Progress―and How to Bring It Back.Dunkelman contrasts past centralized efficiency with today's slow, decentralized system full of procedural roadblocks. They close with a hopeful look at reform efforts, like Josh Shapiro's in Pennsylvania, as one potential model. The Mona Charen Show is a weekly, one-on-one discussion that goes in depth on political and cultural topics. New shows drop Mondays. Find this show wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Add the show to your player of choice, here. This episode of The Mona Charen Show is sponsored by Putting Families First.  They won't forget that certain legislators betrayed families by cutting Medicaid and public school funding. Putting Families First is trying to put a stop cuts to Medicaid and public education, and are working to elect leaders who agree. Learn what's at stake at PutFamilies1st.org. References:  Why Nothing Works– by Marc Dunkelman Stuck– by Yoni Appelbaum Abundance– by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson The Power Broker– by Robert Caro The Power Elite– by C. Wright Mills The House of Truth – by Brad Snyder

Get access to The Backroom exclusive podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/OneDimeIn this episode of 1Dime Radio, I am joined by political theorist Benjamin Studebaker, a PhD at Cambridge and author of the books "The Chronic Crisis of American Democracy" and "Legitimacy in Liberal Democracies," to break down the Iran-Israel conflict, Zohran Mamdani's surprising NYC mayoral primary victory, and the recent LA protests over immigration. We also discuss the historic election of Zohran Mamdani—a socialist, Muslim, pro-Palestine candidate who beat AIPAC in the most Jewish city outside of Israel—and why local electoral wins may not translate to broader socialist strategy. The conversation takes a controversial turn as we examine the left's embrace of subsidized childcare, with Benjamin arguing that this merely accommodates capitalism's dissolution of the family.Timestamps:00:00 Preview: Zohran Mamdani's Victory03:08 War with Iran, NYC Election, & the LA Protests05:06 Iran-Israel War: What Most People Miss 10:12 The Role of Arab States and Turkey11:37 Why the US May Not Want Regime Change in Iran14:34 Challenges of Regime Change in Iran27:38 Egypt, Turkey, & The Gulf States54:34 Likelihood of Revolutions in the Middle East?01:09:55 Why Russia Dosent Hell Iran01:15:58 A New Era of American Hegemony?01:26:40 The Election of Zohran Mamdani01:31:24 Lessons for The Left01:50:49 Rent Control, Housing Market and the problem with Urban Growth02:09:52 The LA protests: Immigration and Public Perception02:18:34 Childcare and The Decline of The Family02:32:25 The Abundance Movement In The Backroom segment on Patreon, Benjamin and I talk about Ezra Klein's “abundance” movement. Become a Patron and get access to 65 exclusive podcast episodes at Patreon.com/OneDime if you haven't already!Follow Benjamin Studebaker on X: https://x.com/BenStudebakerFollow me on X: https://x.com/1DimeOfficialFollow me on Instagram: https://instagram.com/1dimemanCheck out my main-channel video essays: https://www.youtube.com/@1DimeOutro music by Karl Casey.Leave a like, drop a comment, and give 1Dime Radio a ★★★★★ rating if you enjoyed the show!

A beach conversation earlier this week caught Cam's attention. And he asks if we've ever had so many known solutions to a common problem and ignored them? ----- At a family event earlier this week I asked eight members of my extended family who liked their work. Six people did not their work. Some hated their jobs. Some were just ready for something new. And some were actively looking for new jobs but only something they'd enjoy and were struggling to find anything that they thought they'd enjoy. One had weeks to go before retiring at age sixty. Rather than go to sixty-five, he decided to get out early. His young-ish retirement added risk to whether his savings would last but he was willing to accept that risk - he couldn't take his work anymore. The youngest participant in the conversation was thirty, so it wasn't workplace veterans vs workplace newbies. It was across the ages. I wondered: Is this typical? Does seventy five percent of the workforce dislike their work? And some so much that they will accept more risk in their retirement to bug out early? These questions led me back to some notes I took while listening to a podcast a while ago. Ezra Klein interviewed the author, whose name I didn't write down, and the author said some fascinating things: First – Our society continues to create conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. And, per this guy, we know this! Yet we continue to do it. So, I thought, are jobs that are being offered and created today at odds with flourishing? What would a job that facilitated human flourishing look like? Is it even possible? Do I know anyone that has one? Second – Few people know what they want. Only that they don't want “this”, whatever this is. The don't want the work they have, only that there must be something better. But what? Most people have no idea. Third – We have a good idea of what a good life should look like and be BUT we seldom pursue it. And, he said, we train our kids to not pursue it. Third – Our desires today DON'T lead to flourishing. They lead to loneliness. Ask yourself - what are your desires? And be honest – will getting them help you flourish or make you lonely? Or lonelier? Finally, the author said there are three things that lead to flourishing: Education, Religion and Art. Not spirituality. Religion. And there are less of all these things today. Less practice of them. Less study of them. Less pursuit of them. Less pushing our kids toward them. And yet, per the author, they are, and always have been, the keys to happiness. What does it mean that we know the solutions to our unhappiness problems and ignore them. What does it mean that those in influencer positions in our workplace could create elements of jobs that would make others be happier? But we instead follow – and participate in and help create and push our kids into - a culture that ignores the answers? Has a society ever had known solutions to known problems and simply ignored them? I'm wresting with this. It tough. How do we get off this wheel? I'm Cam Marston and I'm just trying to keep it real.

Changes are afoot at Socially Democratic HQ - namely, the addition of Jessie McCrone as a regular guest to the Feeney Files.Which does mean we need a new name. If you have any brilliant suggestions, let us know in the comments. This month: Why is serious policy reform so difficult in Australia? We ponder the frenzied reaction to Labor's relatively modest super tax reforms. Clare O'Neil thinks we could solve the housing crisis by making it easier to build new homes. Is she being too optimistic?And of course, we can't have an episode without talking about Iran. Definitely not with David on the show.If you've had your fill of election coverage and are keen for some policy and foreign affairs chat - this wide-ranging conversation is for you.CHAPTERS:00:00 Show Start02:38 David Complains05:07 Dorinda Cox Defects13:09 Clare O'Neil Insists23:22 Jim Chalmers Pledges33:21 Trump Flakes40:21 Iran Equivocates52:46 Vic Liberals Fall Apart59:25 Albo Goes to the VaticanMentioned in the episode:Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson https://tr.ee/5oSsjKSupport the showNew episodes every Friday. If you like the show, rate and review us on your favourite podcast app. Follow Us on Socials: Facebook (https://tr.ee/9jGIOy)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/sociallydemocratic)LinkedIn (https://tr.ee/YxyYJh)Twitter (https://x.com/SocialDemPod)Bluesky (https://tr.ee/EqdapC)YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@DunnStreet) The presenting sponsor of the Socially Democratic podcast is Dunn Street. For more information on how Dunn Street can help you organise to build winning campaigns in your community, business or organisation, and make the world a better place, look us up at: dunnstreet.com.au

In this Deep Dive series on Climate Philanthropy, I'm exploring the wide range of ways that foundations are stepping up to support climate progress, especially amid federal rollbacks and inconsistent commitments from large companies. Philanthropic capital is tiny in comparison to government and corporate budgets, but it can still be a helpful tool – especially if wielded strategically. Let's set some context: In the United States, there are over 30,000 environmental nonprofits. It's a wildly diverse field with organizations of all sizes and countless focus areas. Since the 1970s, they've saved millions of lives through environmental protections that have cleaned our air, water, land, buildings, factories, and products. Many are struggling with funding cuts and staff shortages, and too often they compete for attention and resources.Foundations provide funding to these organizations, but they can also play a more fundamental role: building movement infrastructure that bolsters the power and influence of the entire field. That, argues Pisces Foundation President David Beckman, is a priority that deserves more attention and support. David is a friend whom I've had the pleasure of working with over the years. When it comes to investing in movement infrastructure, I can't think of anyone else who brings the nuance and insight David has gained through a career-long focus on advancing the environmental movement. We talk about his background as an National Resources Defense Council attorney, his role in helping start the Pisces Foundation, the entreprenuerial nature of his work, what movement infrastructure is, what he's learned about investing in it, the importance of late night cookies in building relationships, the need for a meta narrative, the work of the Pisces Foundation, super pollutants, what business people and young people should know about the environmental movement, and much more. On today's episode, we cover:[03:49] David's Background and Career Path[05:37] Founding of Pisces Foundation[07:56] State of the Environmental Movement[09:41] Strategic Posture and Movement Influence[11:44] Collective Work and Movement Infrastructure[15:08] Social Entrepreneurship in Philanthropy[17:29] Collaborative Field Building Insights[19:49] Late Night Cookies and Building Relationships[22:31] Meta Narrative in Environmental Movement[25:32] Discussion on Environmental Regulations[28:25] Pisces Foundation's Strategic Evolution[31:33] Super Pollutants Overview[33:40] Impact of DC Politics on Philanthropy[35:48] Advice for Business Community[37:13] Advice for Young People[39:04] Current InspirationsResources MentionedPisces FoundationNational Resources Defense CouncilSierra ClubBlue Sky Funders ForumMosaic Funders CollaborativeHewlett Foundation“Abundance” by Ezra Klein and Derek ThompsonU.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Before today's show, a personal announcement. After almost 17 years at The Atlantic, I have just officially moved my writing full time to Substack, the newsletter platform. If you like this show, if you're a fan of my work, I think you'll love what I'm trying to build. Sign up here. 'Abundance,' the book I cowrote with Ezra Klein, has received sharp pushback from left-wing commentators. But the response among left-wing politicians has been strikingly different. While Bernie Sanders devotees have repeatedly bashed the book, Representative Ro Khanna (D-California), an outspoken advocate of Bernie's signature policy proposal, Medicare for All, has announced his support for abundance on several occasions. While several people have accused the book of ignoring policies to increase welfare, Wes Moore, the progressive Maryland governor whose private-sector career was devoted to reducing poverty, said in a recent speech that Democrats have to change from being the party of “no” and “slow” to the party of “yes” and “now.” Then there is Zohran Mamdani, the Democratic socialist candidate for mayor of New York City. Mamdani and I have very different politics on a range of issues: housing, affordability, education, levels of taxation, and spending. But Mamdani has in the last few weeks embraced what he calls an agenda of abundance. He's told podcasts like Pod Save America that he thinks leftist critics of abundance have oversimplified the book and that our approach to making government work better is exactly what the left needs. I saw some people point to Mamdani's name-checks of 'Abundance' and say, "This is great!" while others warned, "It's a ruse! Stay away!" I wanted to talk to the man himself. So I was very gratified that Mamdani and I found 30 minutes to sit down Saturday and talk calmly about abundance and the left, how we agree, how we disagree, why government efficiency ought to be a virtue of all leaders (especially those on the left who want government to do much more), and, finally, how to change our minds. On this point, Mamdani and I are in full agreement: To see the errors in our own thinking requires that we have the courage to talk to people we do not agree with. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: Zohran Mamdani Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Angel Studios https://Angel.com/ToddBecome a Premium Angel Studios Guild member to watch The King of Kings, stream all fan-curated shows and movies, and get 2 free tickets to every Angel Studios theatrical release. Alan's Soaps https://www.AlansArtisanSoaps.comUse coupon code TODD to save an additional 10% off the bundle price.Bioptimizers https://Bioptimizers.com/toddEnter promo code TODD to get 10% off your order of Berberine Breakthrough today.Bizable https://GoBizable.comUntie your business exposure from your personal exposure with BiZABLE.  Schedule your FREE consultation at GoBizAble.com today.  Bonefrog https://BonefrogCoffee.com/toddThe new GOLDEN AGE is here!  Use code TODD at checkout to receive 10% off your first purchase and 15% on subscriptions.Bulwark Capital https://KnowYourRiskPodcast.comBe confident in your portfolio with Bulwark! Schedule your free Know Your Risk Portfolio review. Go to KnowYourRiskPodcast.com today.Renue Healthcare https://Renue.Healthcare/ToddYour journey to a better life starts at Renue Healthcare. Visit https://Renue.Healthcare/ToddLISTEN and SUBSCRIBE at:The Todd Herman Show - Podcast - Apple PodcastsThe Todd Herman Show | Podcast on SpotifyWATCH and SUBSCRIBE at: Todd Herman - The Todd Herman Show - YouTubeAmerica: Do you hear HEAR yourself? // Sarah McBride ACTUALLY Told ONE Truth About Gender Ideology // What does it mean to hear from God?Grace Schara did not die. She was murdered. Expert testimony from Dr Gilbert Berdine. J.D. Vance and BlueSky. Last week, I was forced to the ground — first to my knees and then flat on my chest — and I was handcuffed. Simply for having the audacity to ask a question. We cannot let this Administration silence us or keep us from doing our jobs. … no, you weren't. ICE arrested a Salvadoran convicted m*rderer who's in our country illegally. The problem is they can't deport him because of a Biden-era decision protecting him from deportation. Democrats imported a foreign army and protected them while they invaded usIt's actually amazing that adults who have a toddlers understanding of quite literally everything are so quick to share it. Nothing said here was based on even a little bit of logic or reality."The founding fathers had less access to education than a modern day 12 year old!" H'm, I don't think it's the level of education of the founders that's on trial here.During an interview with Ezra Klein, Rep. Sarah McBride (a male politician who claims womanhood) explains why support for trans rights was a “mirage” and is now cratering. I actually agree with the first 60 seconds of his analysis. Many people initially supported the trans movement because it was force-teamed with gay rights.Revivalist Lydia Marrow says what she's going to do "if men can put on pantyhose and a dress and put on some eyeliner and walk around and make me uncomfortable."  - It's not what you would expect.What Does God's Word Say?1 Corinthians 14:26-40Good Order in Worship26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord's people.34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Happy Pride Month GeriPal listeners! Transgender issues are in the news. Just today (June 17th) as we record this podcast: Ezra Klein released a wonderful interview with Sarah McBride, the first openly transgender member of congress A judge ruled that cuts to NIH grants focused on minority groups, including transgender people, were illegal and ordered the government to restore funding.  It's Pride month, and our guests remind us of the leadership of two trans women in the Stonewall riots, which started the modern fight for LGBTQI+ rights and liberation. Today's guests are Noelle Marie Javier, a geriatrician and palliative care doc who tells her story of transitioning as a faculty member at Mt. Sinai in New York, and Jace Flatt, who started their journey as a gerontology researcher at UCSF and is now faculty at UNLV. Jace was in the news recently for having multiple federal grants cancelled because they included transgender participants. We cover many topics, including: Terminology: gender identity, sexual orientation, gender expression, transgender, nonbinary, intersex, what's in LGBTQI+ Gender affirming care Major health and medical issues associated with aging as a transgender person Allostatic load Accelerated aging What can clinicians do - pointers, pearls, and attitudes Dementia risk  Caregiver issues Hormone replacement therapy at the end of life Sexual orientation and gender identity (SOGI) data, what is it, how to collect it respectfully and safely Mentioned: Harvey Chochinov's Dignity Therapy question, and our prior podcast on LGBT Care for older adults and serious illness with Carey Candrian and Angela Primbas So pleased to sing True Colors by Cyndi Lauper, with Kai on guitar for those of you listening to the podcast. -Alex Smith Many links! -Rainbows of Aging: Jace Flatt's research site. -LGBTQcaregivers -Callen-Lorde gender affirming trans health services -GLMA: organization for health professional advancing LGBTQ+ equality -Center of Excellence for Transgender Health at UCSF -World Professional Association for Transgender Health -Sage advocacy services for LGBTQ+ Elders: focus on impact of Medicaid cuts -Trans bodies, Trans selves: resource guide 

In the wake of Derek Thompson and Ezra Klein's book Abundance, there's been a significant amount of fighting amongst Democrats about the book and the broader Abundance movement. Jeremiah walks through the various camps involved in the fight, why some Democrats seem to hate the ideas of Abundance, and what this dispute is ultimately all about. Check out our episode with the author of Abundance, Derek Thompson: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/creating-abundance-ft-derek-thompson/id1390384827?i=1000699610304   To get bonus episodes, support us at patreon.com/newliberalpodcast or https://cnliberalism.org/become-a-member Got questions? Send us a note at mailbag@cnliberalism.org. Follow us at: https://twitter.com/CNLiberalism https://cnliberalism.org/   Join a local chapter at https://cnliberalism.org/become-a-member/

“Can Democrats Learn to Dream Big Again?,” wonders Samuel Moyn in the New York Times. “The Democrats Are Finally Landing on a New Buzzword. It's Actually Compelling,” argues Slate staff writer Henry Grabar. “Do Democrats Need to Learn How to Build?,” asks Benjamin Wallace-Wells in The New Yorker.  For the past few months, news and editorial rooms have been abuzz with talk about a new, grand vision for the Democratic Party: abundance. Abundance, according to its media promoters—chiefly NYT's Ezra Klein and The Atlantic's Derek Thompson—is a political agenda that espouses the creation of more of everything we need: housing, education, jobs, and energy, to name a few examples. To accomplish this, we are told, we must aim to eliminate bureaucratic red tape that has for so long bogged down production, innovation, and capital's innate capacity and desire to provide a better, more abundant life. It's an alluring promise—if suspiciously vague and devoid of class politics: obviously, doing more good things is better than doing fewer good things, right? Who can argue with this generic premise? Who wouldn't want to support an agenda that's effectively the Do Good Things Agenda? Scratch the surface, however, and what one finds it isn't just a folky, common sense treatise against red tape, but something more sinister and dishonest, something more slick and shallow. What one gets is a standard entryist strategy that begins with a so-vague-it's-incontestable hook—illogical or corrupt regulations are bad—the quickly pivots into a Silicon Valley flattering, and often Silicon Valley funded, political agenda, a narrative designed to blame inequality and our objectively broken political system on too much regulation and “bureaucracy” rather than there being too much power in the hands of an elite few. What one gets, in other words, is a counter to left populism. What one gets is the latest attempt to reheat neoliberalism as something fresh, innovative and able to excite the voting base. Last week, in Part I of a two-part series we're calling “The Empire Strikes First,” we discussed the Democrats' post-2024 apologia, propped up by scapegoats ranging from trans people to “economic headwinds” to Harris actually being too far left. On this episode, Part II of the series, we explore what comes next: the 2028 Democratic strategy and the so-called abundance agenda that is increasingly shaping it. We'll examine how Democratic media influencers and policymakers use lofty, seemingly progressive rhetoric to rehabilitate and re-sell the same old neoliberal deregulation, privatization, and austerity narrative that got us here in the first place, and ensure that no left-wing movement—that could, god forbid, require a meaningful change in the party—get in their way. Our guests are the Revolving Door Project's Kenny Stancil and Henry Burke.

On this edition of Parallax Views, writer and political theorist Malcolm Harris joins us to unpack his sharp critique of the so-called Abundance Agenda, popularized by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. Harris argues that this vision—focused on building more housing, expanding clean energy, and turbocharging innovation—fails to confront the structural contradictions of capitalism and the political realities of class struggle. It's a vision of progress that avoids asking who builds, who benefits, and who decides. We then turn to What's Left, Harris's ambitious new book that outlines three strategic responses to the planetary crisis: marketcraft, public power, and communism. Harris doesn't call for ideological purity—he calls for coordination. What does democratic planning look like in an age of disaster—and how do we get there together? Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/parallaxviews

Is "Abundance" the answer to our housing, energy, and pharma crises—or just neoliberalism in a new outfit?In this in-depth conversation, Capital Forum's Teddy Downey sits down with Sandeep Vaheesan of the Open Markets Institute to dissect "Abundance", the much-hyped book by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. Sandeep—legal director, historian, and author of Democracy and Power—offers a sweeping critique of the book's policy proposals and ideological foundations.We talk about:

It's Newsday Tuesday™ with the MR crew and we'll be digging into the Trump administration's deployment of federal troops to Los Angeles amid protests over ICE raids there. Pete Hegseth tries to justify why federal troops are in LA during a House Appropriations subcommittee hearing by pushing falsehoods about both the situation on the ground, the state and local response and federal policies involving the deployment of troops. Meanwhile, National Guardsmen are sleeping on the floor in their uniforms because the hap-hazard nature of this whole operation. California's governor Gavin Newsom for his part says he's going to be suing the Trump administration over it's actions and points out that because of these deployments other important efforts like fire safety are being compromised. Donald Trump says that Greta Thunberg should take anger management classes after her peaceful humanitarian flotilla to Gaza was detained in international waters by the Israeli military. Russell Brand, who is looking more ridiculous with each passing day, mocks Greta and is seemingly upset that unlike him she actually acts based on her convictions. In the Fun Half, Chuck Todd talks to Steve Bannon, who is openly questioning whether Elon Musk ever should have had classified clearances that aren't even granted to weapons contractors like Boeing and Lockheed Martin. Scott Galloway also gets in on the beat down on Musk, though he sort of misses the key point which is that Musk (or any individual for that matter) should hold that much power. And we check in on Ezra Klein, who's taken to the pages of his local paper the New York Times to further make the case for the Abundance Agenda. We also take some calls from listeners. Tune in! Become a member at JoinTheMajorityReport.com: https://fans.fm/majority/join Follow us on TikTok here!: https://www.tiktok.com/@majorityreportfm Check us out on Twitch here!: https://www.twitch.tv/themajorityreport Find our Rumble stream here!: https://rumble.com/user/majorityreport Check out our alt YouTube channel here!: https://www.youtube.com/majorityreportlive Gift a Majority Report subscription here: https://fans.fm/majority/gift Subscribe to the ESVN YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/esvnshow Subscribe to the AMQuickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! https://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: https://majority.fm/app Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code majority to get 10% off your purchase! Check out today's sponsors: JUST COFFEE: Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code MAJORITY for 10% off your purchase! EXPRESS VPN: Get up to 4 extra months free. https://Expressvpn.com/Majority SUNSET LAKE: Go to https://sunsetlakecbd.com/ Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattLech @RussFinkelstein Check out Russ' podcast the New Yorker Political Scene Scene: https://rss.com/podcasts/newyorkerpoliticalscenescene/ Check out Matt's show, Left Reckoning, on Youtube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Subscribe to Brandon's show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Check out Ava Raiza's music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.com/ The Majority Report with Sam Seder – https://majorityreportradio.com/

Steve Teles in Ezra Klein's NYT column: Opinion | The Abundance Agenda Has Its Own Theory of Power - The New York TimesJosh Barro on Unions and Abundance: In Blue Cities, Abundance Will Require Fighting Labor UnionsREALIGNMENT NEWSLETTER: https://therealignment.substack.com/PURCHASE BOOKS AT OUR BOOKSHOP: https://bookshop.org/shop/therealignmentEmail Us: realignmentpod@gmail.com

On this episode of Infill, Gillian Pressman talks with two powerhouse voices: Sonja Trauss, founder of the YIMBY movement and Executive Director of YIMBY Law, and Misha Chellam, founder of the Abundance Network. Together, they unpack the transformative idea of “abundance,” sparked by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson's new book. They explore what resources it takes to build abundance and how we can build the political power to make a future of abundance our reality. You'll hear thoughts on how YIMBY and Abundance movement leaders are creating systems that empower local advocates to get involved in politics, how different kinds of people in your movement can help you win, and the benefits of various approaches to building power. Whether you're new to the YIMBY movement or deep in the policy trenches, this episode will inspire you to think bigger, act bolder, and advocate harder for a future of abundance for all of us. Read the Your Role in Abundance Substack article: https://modernpower.substack.com/p/your-role-in-abundanceLearn more about the Abundance Network: https://www.abundancenetwork.com/Learn more about YIMBY Action: https://yimbyaction.org/Follow YIMBY Action on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yimbyaction/Follow YIMBY Action on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/yimbyaction.bsky.socialFollow YIMBY Action on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yimbyaction/

On this special podcast episode we are sharing the opening statements from the Munk Debate on Trump’s America, which took place on May 29th in front of a sold out crowd of 3,000 people at Toronto’s Roy Thomson Hall. The debate resolution was: Be it resolved, this is America’s golden age Arguing in favour of the motion was the political consultant, pollster and senior counselor to President Trump during his first term in office, Kellyanne Conway. Her debate partner was the President of the right-wing think tank the Heritage Foundation, and the architect of Project 2025, Kevin D. Roberts. Opposing the motion was the New York Times columnist, podcaster, bestselling author, and one of America’s most influential commentators, Ezra Klein. His debate partner was Ben Rhodes, who served as President Obama’s senior advisor and is the co-host of the popular podcast Pod Save the World. To watch the full Munk Debate on Trump's America go to our website www.munkdebates.com

Jason, Rob, and Asher are taking out a huge, unaffordable mortgage on the housing crisis. What's behind the shortage in housing? Why is it that no one, except canine Tik Tok influencers with billion-dollar bank accounts, can afford to own a home? While mainstream pundits press for an energy-blind buildout of desert sprawl and gleaming towers of glass and steel, we propose a surprising change of course inspired by little people with hairy feet. Originally recorded on 5/21/25.Warning: This podcast occasionally uses spicy language.Sources/Links/Notes:The story of Gunther, the world's most moneyed canine.You can't make this stuff up: Gunther offers to buy Nicholas Cage's island.David Wessel, "Where do the estimates of a 'housing shortage' come from?," Brookings Institute, October 21, 2024.Alex Fitzpatrick and Alice Feng, "Americans' average daily travel distance, mapped," Axios, March 24, 2024.Jon Gertner, "America Is on Fire, Says One Climate Writer. Should You Flee?," New York Times, March 22, 2024.U.S. News and World Report, "Fastest-Growing Places in the U.S. in 2025-2026."Good Ideas for Addressing the Housing Crisis:Jason Bradford, "Growing the Shire, Not the 'Burb: Facing the Housing Crisis with Ecological Sanity," Resilience, May 27, 2025.Global Ecovillage NetworkNate Hagens, "Alexis Zeigler —  Living Without Fossil Fuels: How Living Energy Farm Created a Comfortable Off-Grid Lifestyle," The Great Simplification, April 9, 2025.Energy-Blind Non-Solutions for the Housing Crisis:Conor Dougherty, "Why America Should Sprawl," New York Times, April 10, 2025.Binyamin Applebaum, "Build Homes on Federal Land," New York Times, April 15, 2025.Ezra Klein, "Abundance and the Left," The Ezra Klein Show, April 29, 2025.Samuel Moyn, "Can Democrats Learn to Dream Big Again?," New York Times, March 18, 2025.Tyler Cowen, "Ezra Klein on the Abundance Agenda (Ep. 236)" Conversations with Tyler, March 7, 2025.Related Episode(s) of Crazy Town:Episode 37. Discounting the Future and Climate Chaos, or… the Story of the Dueling EconomistsSupport the show

Why is it so hard to build anything in America? Ezra Klein explores how our good intentions led to a system that stifles progress, and what it would take to break free.Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek ThompsonBuild, Interrupted: A Conversation with Ezra Klein Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of 99% Invisible ad-free. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

Why is building affordable housing so hard these days? We talk to author Derek Thompson about his new book with Ezra Klein, Abundance, about what they believe is keeping affordable housing out of reach in high-income cities. Related: How big is the US housing shortage? (Apple / Spotify) How California's speed rail was always going to blow out (Apple / Spotify) Why building public transit costs so much For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez. Music by Drop Electric. Find us: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Newsletter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Newsday Tuesday™ and Trump is on Capitol Hill trying to push his Big Beautiful Bill today. Sam and Emma will dig into what's in it and why. Suffice to say, when the dust settles, poor and working class people are sure to get the short end of the stick. Also, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem apparently has no idea what Habeas Corpus is, how it works or how it's invoked. In the Fun Half, we bask in the glow of Columbia University's president getting boo'ed and heckled during a graduation ceremony. John Stewart points out how Jake Tapper sat on some really important information about Joe Biden's mental acuity and the workings of his administration in order to sell it after the fact as a book. And finally, Sam has some more thoughts on Ezra Klein and the Abundance Agenda. Become a member at JoinTheMajorityReport.com: https://fans.fm/majority/join Follow us on TikTok here!: https://www.tiktok.com/@majorityreportfm Check us out on Twitch here!: https://www.twitch.tv/themajorityreport Find our Rumble stream here!: https://rumble.com/user/majorityreport Check out our alt YouTube channel here!: https://www.youtube.com/majorityreportlive Gift a Majority Report subscription here: https://fans.fm/majority/gift Subscribe to the ESVN YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/esvnshow Subscribe to the AMQuickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! https://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: https://majority.fm/app Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code majority to get 10% off your purchase! Check out today's sponsors: DeleteMe: Text MAJORITY to 64000 for 20% off your DeleteMe subscription Magic Spoon: Get 5 dollars off your next order at MagicSpoon.com/MAJORITYREPORT.   Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattLech @RussFinkelstein Check out Matt's show, Left Reckoning, on Youtube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Subscribe to Brandon's show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Check out Ava Raiza's music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.com/ The Majority Report with Sam Seder – https://majorityreportradio.com/

We've made it to casual Friday folks! The Supreme Court had a field day yesterday with the Trump administration's attorney over their executive order to revoke birthright citizenship. Several of the justices, including conservatives, seemed to reject the argument that circuit court injunctions should only apply to the specific case in question. After that, the Nation's Jeet Heer is here to break down all the week's highlights (and lowlights), including Trump's trip to the Middle East, the GOP spending bill and the Democratic Party's lack of willingness to address concerns over Biden's age when it counted. Check out Jeet's writing at The Nation: https://www.thenation.com/authors/jeet-heer/ And his podcast The Time of Monsters: https://www.thenation.com/content/time-of-monsters/ In the Fun Half, Sam and Emma go deeper into the Supreme Court case on birthright citizenship, mainly a question Bret Kavanaugh asked about how such a policy would even be implemented. Would expecting mothers have to pass a customs checkpoint to enter the maternity ward? Or maybe all maternity wards would have to be inside of detention centers so the government can adjudicate each baby's immigration status after they're born. Kid Rock says that liberal women are ugly. Ok dude. And towards the end of the show, Sam, Emma Kuwalski from Nebraska and a few other listeners do a bit of a post-mortem on Sam's conversation with Ezra Klein. Become a member at JoinTheMajorityReport.com: https://fans.fm/majority/join Follow us on TikTok here!: https://www.tiktok.com/@majorityreportfm Check us out on Twitch here!: https://www.twitch.tv/themajorityreport Find our Rumble stream here!: https://rumble.com/user/majorityreport Check out our alt YouTube channel here!: https://www.youtube.com/majorityreportlive Gift a Majority Report subscription here: https://fans.fm/majority/gift Subscribe to the ESVN YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/esvnshow Subscribe to the AMQuickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! https://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: https://majority.fm/app Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code majority to get 10% off your purchase! Check out today's sponsors: Mankura: Get $25 off your Starter Kit by going to manukora.com/majority  Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month's subscription + free shipping at Nutrafol.com when you use promo code TMR10 Sunset Lake CBD: Use coupon code “Left Is Best” (all one word) for 20% off of your entire order at SunsetLakeCBD.com Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattLech @RussFinkelstein Check out Matt's show, Left Reckoning, on Youtube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Subscribe to Brandon's show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Check out Ava Raiza's music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.com/ The Majority Report with Sam Seder – https://majorityreportradio.com/

Today Sam has his much-anticipated discussion with Ezra Klein about his book Abundance, tune in! Sam and Ezra's convo is wide-ranging, but focuses mostly on housing, regulation and the influence of money in politics. But first, Sam checks on the Republicans' efforts to make cuts to Medicaid. To hear more from Ezra, check out his podcast The Ezra Klein Show: https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast Or read his book Abundance: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488 Or check out his column at the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein After that, Sam checks in on a Congressional hearing where RJK Jr. won't answer whether he'd recommend his kids be vaccinated for Measles, despite that it's already infected more than 1,000 people in the country. Kennedy goes on to say he doesn't think people should be taking medical advice to him. Remind you, he's the head of Donald Trump's Health and Human Services Department. Chuck Schumer won't address the new reporting from Jake Tapper that Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries and co. were working on a plan to pull Biden from the top of the presidential ticket before the disastrous debate. Then, Steven Crowder tries to explain why Trump's toothless executive order to regulate the cost of pharmaceutical drugs is a shot across the bow of Marxist countries like Germany. It's funny but doesn't really make sense. Become a member at JoinTheMajorityReport.com: https://fans.fm/majority/join Follow us on TikTok here!: https://www.tiktok.com/@majorityreportfm Check us out on Twitch here!: https://www.twitch.tv/themajorityreport Find our Rumble stream here!: https://rumble.com/user/majorityreport Check out our alt YouTube channel here!: https://www.youtube.com/majorityreportlive Gift a Majority Report subscription here: https://fans.fm/majority/gift Subscribe to the ESVN YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/esvnshow Subscribe to the AMQuickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! https://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: https://majority.fm/app Go to https://JustCoffee.coop and use coupon code majority to get 10% off your purchase! Check out today's sponsors: Prolon: ProlonLife.com/majority Get 15% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Nutrition Program Naked Wines: To get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99, head to NakedWines.com/MAJORITY and use code MAJORITY for both the code AND PASSWORD Fast Growing Trees: Get 15% off your first purchase.  FastGrowingTrees.com/majority Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattLech @RussFinkelstein Check out Matt's show, Left Reckoning, on Youtube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Subscribe to Brandon's show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Check out Ava Raiza's music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.com/ The Majority Report with Sam Seder – https://majorityreportradio.com/

Sam hopped back on with his manager and business partner, Jaron Lowenstein, to talk about current events and answer some of the questions you all submitted on Substack. They discuss whether Jews in the U.S. are safer under Trump, due process rights and free speech, what Trump is doing to universities, the Trump family's latest corruption scandals, Sam's updated views on Bill Maher's dinner at the White House, what Sam got wrong about wokeness and the 2024 election, Pete Buttigieg's appearance on Andrew Schulz's podcast, Gavin Newsom, and Ezra Klein. Produced by Griffin Katz If the Making Sense podcast logo in your player is BLACK, you can SUBSCRIBE to gain access to all full-length episodes at samharris.org/subscribe. Learning how to train your mind is the single greatest investment you can make in life. That's why Sam Harris created the Waking Up app. From rational mindfulness practice to lessons on some of life's most important topics, join Sam as he demystifies the practice of meditation and explores the theory behind it.