Podcast appearances and mentions of David Frank

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 15, 2026 68:53

The lessons I carried away from September 11 did not begin that day, and they certainly did not end there. In this solo episode, I reflect on how my parents taught me not to accept the limits others placed on blindness, how my guide dogs taught me about trust and teamwork, and how September 11 confirmed so much of what I already believed about fear, leadership, change, and possibility. I share why I work hard not to worry about things I cannot control, why I believe we can never truly go back to “normal,” and why strong teams are built through trust rather than control. I also challenge some of the ways we think about blindness and disability, because different does not mean less capable. I hope these lessons help you think differently about fear, change, leadership, and what it really means to live with an unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:46 – Why the lessons of September 11 began long before that day. 08:56 – How Michael learned that blindness is not the real barrier. 17:13 – Why focusing on what you can control can reduce fear. 24:28 – Why getting back to “normal” is not always the answer. 32:30 – What guide dogs taught Michael about trust and teamwork. 1:01:37 – Why disability does not mean a lack of ability. About the Host: Michael Hingson, blind since birth, was born in Chicago to sighted parents who believed in raising their son with a can-do attitude. Treated like all other children in his family, Michael rode a bike did advanced math in his head and learn to read and write – Braille that is! Michael's family relocated to the warm Palmdale area of California when he was five years old. It is here that Hingson had his first adventure with Guide Dogs for the Blind and received his first guide dog. He later went to college receiving a bachelor's and master's degree in Physics along with a secondary teaching credential from the University of California at Irvine. Michael then enjoyed a nearly-30-year career working for high tech companies spending most of his time in management roles. Michael Hingson's life changed dramatically on September 11, 2001 when he and his guide dog, Roselle, escaped from the 78th floor of Tower One in the World Trade Center moments before it collapsed. Soon after, Michael and Roselle were thrust into the international limelight where Michael began to share his unique survival story and 9-11 lessons of trust, courage, heroism, and teamwork. Mike has served as The National Public Affairs Director for one of the largest Nonprofit organizations in the nation: Guide Dogs for the Blind; He has served as the vice president of the National Association of Guide Dog Users; Michael has held a seat on the Fort Worth Lighthouse for the Blind. He is the chair of the board of directors of the Earle Baum Center for the Blind and is the vice chair of the Colorado Center for the Blind; Michael is The National Ambassador for the Braille Literacy Campaign of the National Federation of the Blind. Until October 2019 he worked as the CEO of the Do More Foundation, the non-profit arm of Aira Tech Corp, a manufacturer of assistive technology which makes a revolutionary visual interpreter for blind people. In January 2021 Mike joined accessiBe as its Chief Vision Officer to help advance the company goal of making the entire internet fully inclusive. He held this position through June of 2026. He is the author of the #1 New York Times Best Seller: “Thunder dog –The True Story of a Blind Man, a Guide Dog & the Triumph of Trust” – selling over 2.5 million copies Worldwide. In 2013 Mr. Hingson published his 2 book “Running with Roselle”- which Is the first of its kind- A story for our youth shedding light on one of Americas Darkest Days. Mr. Hingson's third book, “Live Like A Guide Dog”, was released on August 20, 2024. This book shows readers how they can learn to control fear and not, as Mike would say, “become blinded by fear in the face of crisis”. Aside from his talents and advocacies, Mr. Hingson has traveled the Globe from Japan to New Zealand, the Netherlands to his hometown, Chicago. Speaking to some of the world's most elite: from former President, George W. Bush to Larry King, to Fortune 500 companies and colleges and Universities Nationwide. After sharing his story of survival on hundreds of TV and Radio programs, Michael is now an Expert hired by many of today's major corporations and organizations. Speaking and consulting on the importance of Teamwork and Trust, Moving from Diversity to Inclusion, as well as offering Adaptive Technology Training – spearheading innovation for ALL! - Thus, bringing organizations to the forefront of the ever-changing competitive modern world. In June, 2024 Mike was inducted as an alumni member into the honors Fraternity Phi Beta Kappa. Currently Michael lives in Victorville, California with Alamo, Michael's eighth guide dog and his rescue feline, Stitch. More information on Mr. Hingson is available on his website. Here also is a link to Mr. Hingson's press kit: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/q8uxu9u7pap4puj5de7rg/h?rlkey=22bziy0wmghf8111kad73685y&dl=0 http://www.michaelhingson.com/live-like-a-guide-dog www.michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com/podcast Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/mhingson https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://www.facebook.com/Roselle911GuideDog/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/1568642850718948 https://www.facebook.com/?paipv=0&eav=AfZNi2VDR2R4nC6SveyCvZIyKtyi9VOLOzOKcG-v0Hk1glaVssEHwdR920w1_u-8B-k&_rdr https://www.facebook.com/?paipv=0&eav=AfZNi2VDR2R4nC6SveyCvZIyKtyi9VOLOzOKcG-v0Hk1glaVssEHwdR920w1_u-8B-k&_rdr Twitter, https://twitter.com/mhingson LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson Youtube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfCx2L9OVN38Dv4mX6udP8g Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! 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Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello, everyone. I am Michael Hingson. I am your host on Unstoppable Mindset, and this happens to be episode 475. Yeah, we've done a lot of these, and most all of them have been conversations with people who said that they wanted to come on the podcast and talk about one thing or another. And I was really pleased to have them. This episode is going to be a little bit different, as the last few have been. Episode 472, which we published on September 4, was a talk I gave in April of 2024, which told my story of being in the World Trade Center on september 11, on episode 473 on the eighth of September, Michelle Abraham interviewed me, and we talked about a number of things around september 11 and so on. Episode 474, which was published on the 11th of September, 2026. was a conversation with Bob Ellis, who was in the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, an escape, and we hear his story, and we got to chat and kind of talked about notes from both of us. Now it's episode 475, and it was suggested that I ought to talk about things that I learned from September 11th and how my life has changed, and I'm going to do the best I can to talk about all that. So you're just going to be hearing me today. I hope you won't go away. I hope that you'll enjoy it. I just returned from speaking all week from September 9th through September 11th in Kilgore, Texas, at Kilgore College, they did an incredible job of doing some things to help people become aware of September 11th. They actually had in the library and around the library at Kilgore College a monument to September 11th. They had some columns or portions of columns from the World Trade Center. They had a list of all of the names. They had flags in a in a in several rows with the names of all of the people who were lost on September 11th. They had a timeline from my book Thunderdog: The Story of a Blind man, his guide dog, and the triumph of trust at Ground Zero-a timeline of what I experienced, and they also had, I think, a timeline of just the World Trade Center events in in general. Well, okay, so all of that happened. I got back last night, and now here it is, Sunday. It is the 13th of September, and I'm recording this so that we can publish it on Tuesday, september 15. So that's a little bit of a long way to get to where we are. But as I said, people asked me to talk about what I learned that day, and how I proceeded and progressed from that day, but I have to go back to long before September 11th to really do everything justice and to put it all in context. So let me start this way. I believe that I have said a few times on this podcast, and certainly in some of the speeches that I've given, that I was born two months premature, and I was given a pure oxygen environment when I was born, because I was born early. Medical science had started to hear that even too much oxygen might not necessarily be a good thing, but the doctors in Chicago where I was born didn't buy into that concept yet, and so the result was I was given a pre-oxygen environment, and my retinas didn't develop as they should, and I became blind. So was I born blind? If you're very technical, no. But for all intents and purposes, yes. The doctors told my parents to send me to a home, to send me away, because no blind child could ever. Michael Hingson 04:59 Grow up to amount to anything, and all I would be would would end up being a drain on my family, sucking up all the love that my parents might have had for their older son, two years older than I, my brother Ellery. But the reality is, my parents said you're wrong. He can grow up to do whatever he chooses, and we're going to give him that opportunity. And I grew up with that idea. I grew up with that concept. My parents told me at some point when I was still fairly young about what the doctors had said, and they said, "You know, we think that you can do whatever you want. We want you to have that opportunity. Well, they did a number of things to help the process along. For example, we lived in Chicago until I was five, but at the age of four, typically children in in Illinois start or in Chicago start kindergarten, and I did as well. My parents worked with other parents and the school district to start a kindergarten class for children who were blind, and there were a number of preemies in the Chicago area. In that class, Miss Lapree, my teacher, taught me Braille. See, I remember her name. Taught me Braille. Taught me other skills. Taught the other blind kids because it was a kindergarten class for blind children. Taught us all a variety of different things that we could use, and then unfortunately, in a sense, I guess after kindergarten at the age of four, and it was over, my father had gotten an offer and took a job out in California, and we moved to California. Well, in California, kindergarten starts at five, and even though I had had a course in kindergarten already, I had to go through a second year of it, but we didn't have any kind of facilities to teach us or teach me about Braille going forward, getting me Braille books and so on. So kindergarten, first, second, and third grade, I didn't have access directly to textbook material. My parents helped me though. My father taught me math. He was an electronics and electrical engineer. I was doing algebra in my head by the time I was six. My mother read other assignments to me, taught me the spelling words because in first, second, and third grade you learned to spell, and in theory beyond third grade as well, of course. But what happened for me was that I learned about spelling by my mother teaching me how to spell the words, and then she would say the words, and then I would spell them. Well, that ended up going even further because typically in classrooms, what happened was that when it came time to take the actual spelling test, which happened on Fridays, the teacher would say the words. All of us or all the children in the class would write down the answers. Then we would exchange papers, and the teacher would then write the correct spellings on the board. Not in my class. I had to. Well, I got to get up. I. I don't want to say I had to. That's a lesson that I want to get to. wasn't that I had to get up. I got to get up, and actually spell the words out loud. I remember once missing a word, at least starting to miss a word, and somebody made a noise, and I realized, oh, that must be wrong, and I corrected it. But I learned how to spell words, and I learned to spell them out loud for the whole class, and not be afraid of them, and that way students could grade each other's papers. And so, in a sense, I could say that's where I started to learn how to be involved in doing public speaking, and I learned not to be afraid of standing up and and saying things as long as they were the right kinds of things. Well, between third and fourth grade, I got access to Braille books. Cora Hershberger was hired by the school district to come in. She was a resource teacher with training in dealing with blindness and blind kids and so on. Michael Hingson 08:56 And there were a number of us, and she she was able to get us books, she was able to work with each of us and prove our Braille skills and my Braille skills especially, and so on. So I tell you all of that because I want to put things in perspective, and I think that the most important thing is the doctors told my parents that I couldn't do anything. My parents said, "Of course he can, and they brought me up believing that I could. So I rode a bicycle to school. Everybody still thinks that's amazing. One of the important things that I have learned over the years, and I've learned to articulate it even more effectively. I hope, certainly, I believe better since the World Trade Center, and I became a full-time keynote public speaker, which I've been doing for 25 years, I have learned to discuss this whole concept of blindness and accept the fact that there are going to be a lot of people who have eyesight who get it wrong. They think that, like the doctor said, blind people really can't do anything. You can't absorb the same material, or at least you don't get the same. As sighted people do, so you really aren't going to be able to do the things that we can do. And I have learned that I can't be angry at that. I've learned that in reality, I need to articulate the fact that blindness isn't the problem. The problem happens to be the misconceptions and poor attitudes that people have about blindness. It would be so easy just to be upset every time I hear some comment that talks about what I can do and what I can't do. You can't really ride a bicycle. That's amazing that you could do that. I can't imagine anybody else doing it. I know lots of blind kids who rode bikes, and I'm sure that they still do. Blindness isn't the problem. The reality is the problem consists of the misconceptions and poor attitudes that sighted people have about blindness. Whether you like it or not, that's the way it is. Blindness isn't the problem. We can learn to do the same things pretty much that you can do, and we can learn to do things that you can't do, and we learn all of that and use that knowledge to help us move forward and be more effective. What can I do that you can't do? Try walking around in the dark. You can't do it. You don't know how to do it. You don't have the techniques to do it. One of the things that has cropped up over the past significant number of years is restaurants do something called dining in the dark. Dining in the dark, and there are organizations that promote that, and they say, "Oh, you get to learn how blind people eat and how much of a challenge it is. That is so disgusting that people do that because dying in the dark isn't going to teach you anything about blindness. You don't get the training that you need in order to function as a blind person. Just like I don't get the training to learn how to function as a sighted person. Although I've spent a lot of time observing sighted people, and I understand a lot about eyesight, and I understand what you can do, and I accept that. But I expect, and I think it is reasonable for you to understand and accept that I can do lots of things. That it's not about eyesight. I wrote a book in 20, and it was published by Thomas Nelson Publishing in 2011. I and Susie Florey wrote the book. It's called Thunderdog: The True Story of a Blind Man, His Guide Dogs, and the Triumph of Trust at Ground Zero. And there is a section near the end of the book called Guide Dog Wisdom. And number two in Guide Dog Wisdom includes a sentence that says, "Don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. You all strictly deal with eyesight, and if it's not something that you can see with your eyes, or you don't really separate eyesight from vision, you tend to really misunderstand so many things. But the reality is, don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. Recognize there's a whole lot more to life than eyesight. Michael Hingson 13:01 SEAL Team Six, other military teams, so many other people learn how to use those other senses, and that's the same thing that we as blind people do. We learn to use our other senses. They're not magically enhanced simply because we go blind, but rather we learn how to use those senses? I hope, or we try to, and by doing so, we improve them and we develop them. And those of us who truly do that are a lot more better off, and we're able to do so many things that people think are amazing, but they're not. They're not really amazing. They're certainly not amazing to me. Anyway, I grew up believing all of that, and of course, I was also very fortunate to have a number of jobs throughout my career. And the final result of all of that was I ended up getting the opportunity to open an office in the World Trade Center for Quantum ATL, the company that hired me to open an office in New York, and there we were on September 11th when everything happened. The night, as September 11th ended, was spent by me and my wife Karen. By the way, Karen was in a wheelchair her whole life. We got married in November of 1982, and we were married through into November of 2022. We were married 40 years. Karen was in a wheelchair her whole life. It was a great marriage, as I love to tell people. She read, I pushed, worked out well. How do I push a person in a wheelchair? Well, she used a manual chair, and when we got to curbs and so on, she would stop, and she would hold the wheels, and and I knew that she had stopped. And I would tip the chair back. She might say, "There's a curb. I would tip the chair back onto its back wheels. We'd roll down off the curb, put the chair down. We'd cross the street, tip the chair up. Front wheels go up on the curb on the other side, unless there was a ramp to go up. And we continued on our way. It's not that magical. It is just what I learned to do, and I enjoyed it. and And I enjoyed Karen's company and so on for 40 years. We were locked down during the pandemic and so on. We'll get to some of that in a bit. But I learned overall that in reality, what my parents taught me was true. Blindness wasn't going to be the problem; eyesight was going to be the problem. And that night after September 11th, we kind of tried to make sense of it. It was me and Karen and a friend of Karen's who I also got to know, and who became a friend of mine. Tom Painter had come down. Tom and Karen went to the same high school, but we all ended up in New Jersey. And Tom came to visit us, actually visit Karen after September 11th started. When he heard about the terrorist attacks, he just came down, not knowing whether I was in the office or not. But I was, and Karen and Tom, well, Tom stayed with Karen and and drove her to pick me up at the Westfield, New Jersey train station at about 7p.m. on september 11. We went home with my guide dog Roselle. When we got home, I took Roselle's harness off because I was going to take her outside. She would have none of it. She ran off. She grabbed her favorite tug bone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linnie. Well, that was kind of fun, and I didn't think a lot about it. But I went. That was interesting. The next day, I contacted Guide Dogs for the Blind because several people from there had visited us in the World Trade Center, and among others, I spoke to the head of the veterinary department, and I said, "So, tell me, how is all this going to affect Roselle? Because everybody's talking about how it's going to affect everyone and all that, and and he asked me, "Did anything threaten directly Roselle? Did anything really threaten her? And I said, No, not really. Nothing directly affected her. And he said, Well, there you go. Dogs don't do what if. They live in the moment. Michael Hingson 17:13 And when you took the harness off, it was over for her, and she was ready to go play. She wanted to relax. She wanted to play, and she did. Oh, and yes, we did eventually get her outside. But the bottom line is, I think that's one of the most important things that I learned coming out of September 11th, and I, I kind of knew it beforehand, but I really got to understand it afterward. We what if everything to death? We what if anything that comes into our lives, well, we're we're in a war with Iran. Well, what if Iran bombs us? What if Iran does this? What if the Hooties do that? What are we going to do? What if our government takes us to war in the first place? Well, they have. The bottom line is, though, we don't have control over all of that. We do have control over some things in our lives, and those are the things that we should worry about. We should stop worrying about everything else. And people say, "Well, it's natural to worry. No, it's not. Not any more natural to worry than it is not to worry. We learn to worry because we're taught that. But the bottom line is, if we learn only to focus on the things over which we truly have control, and be aware of the other things, but don't let them worry us. Don't let them cause fear in our lives. We will live much less fearful and much more stress-free lives than in any other way. If you want another example of why I believe this, on September 11th, David Frank, my colleague who had come in to be involved with the seminars, David had come in the night before, and he came to our office about 8o'clock in the morning on the 11th of September. When we were escaping from the towers, we ended up downstairs and outside. David saw fire in Tower Two, and the way we happened to walk took us very close to Tower Two. We were at Broadway and Vessi Street, maybe 100 yards away from Tower Two. And when David stopped, he said, "You know, there's fire in Tower Two. I want to take pictures of it. And and I also wanted to try to call my wife Karen to let her know that we had gotten out of the towers, I couldn't get through. The circuits were busy because, as we later learned, people were calling and talking to loved ones. But anyway, David had just started putting his camera away. I had put my phone away, and a police officer yelled, "Get out of here! It's coming down right now! And we heard this sound I describe as kind of a combination of a freight train and a waterfall. I could hear glass breaking, metal clattering, and then just the building collapsing straight down. We didn't necessarily know that it was going to do that, but it did. It did exactly what it was designed to do. Anyway, everyone turned and ran. David ran. I turned 180 degrees. With Roselle, and started running back the other way. And as soon as I started to run, I thought to myself, "God, I can't believe that you got us out of a building just to have it fall on us. And I heard in my head a voice as clearly as you hear me right now-a voice that said, "Don't worry about what you can't control, focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. And I had this absolute sense of conviction that if we worked together, we would be fine. Well, we were. Where'd that voice come from? It was God talking to me. I grew up with my father very seriously believing in the concept of God. If you don't, that's fine. That is your choice. I've had people on my podcast who don't necessarily have strong beliefs and convictions about God. I do, but it's not my job to force people or compel people to believe in God. I will tell my story, and people can accept it or reject it as they choose. But that's what happened to me, and I've realized from that time on: don't worry about what you can't control. And I really, truly work very hard to focus on not worrying about the things that I don't have any influence over. Michael Hingson 21:16 I like to be aware of them. I hear from people all the time today about don't watch the news. I don't like to watch the news because it just makes me so angry and so fearful. And my response is, I'm going to watch the news because I want to know what's going on. And sometimes I'll yell at politicians through the TV, but I won't really overall get angry at them. I will hear it. I will either accept it or decide I don't have any influence over it, so I'm not going to worry about it, and I don't because it isn't going to help me to worry about it. It isn't going to help anyone else to worry about any of those kinds of things. Don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can and leave the rest alone, and that's one of the basic premises of the third book that I wrote, which was published in 2024, entitled "Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Dogs About Being Brave, Overcoming Adversity, and Moving Forward in Faith. And that book was written by me and Carrie Wyatt Kent. The book was published by Tyndale House, and is out there for people to to read. The first book was published by Thomas Nelson Publishing, which is now part of Harper Collins, and a lady, Jeanette Hanscom, and I wrote the second book, which is called Running with Roselle, which is really a book more for children, teaching them about me growing up, Roselle growing up, and how we met. A little bit about the World Trade Center. That one was self-published, but all three books are available wherever you can find books, so you can get them always from Amazon, of course. And so I hope that that you'll get them and read them. They will help. Live Like a Guide Dog probably is the best book for me to talk about in terms of things that I learned over the years, but if I really summarize mostly what happened for me after September 11th, it is that what happened on that day validated everything that I've believed about me. Certainly, what I believe about God, but it validates everything that I've ever thought about blindness, blind people, what we can do, the challenges we face, some of the issues that other people have, and the validation is certainly something that helped what I learned. But I learned other things along the way, and you know I want to talk about some of those things. The first, as I said, is don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can, and let the rest take care of itself. Speaker 1 23:56 If you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes, thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. One Michael Hingson 24:28 of the things that happened to me almost immediately after September 11th is I started hearing people say, "We got to get back to normal. If we don't get back to normal, that's a problem. We got to get back to normal. And I always reacted internally, at least pretty negatively to that. And I finally realized why I reacted to that statement about we got to get back to normal. The reason I reacted to that statement, and I still react to to myself to that statement, is normal will never be the same again. We can't get back to normal. If we get back to normal the way it was prior to September 11th, the same thing will happen again. We can't do that. We have to get back to a different normal, and and in fact, normal is probably going to be an ongoing, constant process of change. We ought to learn not to fear that either. Change is all around us. We always say that, but then we don't like change. It's kind of a paradox. But the reality is, change is all around us. And what we really need to do is to learn how to focus in change. And we need to learn that in reality, we can deal with change. And if we have any influence over it, then we should do something about that too. But the bottom line is, getting back to normal prior to September 11th isn't going to help any of us, and and it isn't going to happen. So that is an one thing that I will say definitely. I learned from September 11th: normal will never be the same again. As I said a lot earlier, I think I probably learned about public speaking at least the beginning of it by doing the spelling tests and so on. But after September 11th, the media got my story, and that happened because Joanne Ritter, the public and information services person at the time at Guide Dogs wanted to write a story, and I kind of agreed. And I said, "That's fine. And then she said, "I'll bet you'll be on TV. What television show do you want to be on first? So I kind of just sort of flippantly said, "Larry King Live. That was on the 12th of September when I talked with her. On the 13th, she called back and she said, "Larry King wants you on his show on september 14, which was a Friday, and they sent a car to pick me up, and and I recall Karen and and Tom one as well, and anyway, we went into the World Trade Center, not to the World Trade Center, but we went into New York, and I appeared on CNN, which was the first of five interviews with Larry. Larry also, by the way, at my request, wrote the foreword for Thunderdog. So when you read Thunderdog, you'll get to read Larry's words as well. But after being on Larry King, the media really got my story, and a lot of things happened after that. I started getting literally calls every day for interviews. People wanted to talk to me about September 11th and ask questions and so on. And one of the things that I learned was that talking to reporters could be a great therapy because they would ask virtually any kind of question you can imagine. And of course, a lot of people said things like, "Well, did you know what happened on September 11th when it was happening? And I said no. And they said, well, of course you didn't. You're blind, you know. And my response is, anybody who says that really needs to not let their sight get in their way or their vision to be polite about it. The fact of the matter is, as we were going down the stairs, no one knew anything about what was going on. When I got into the stairwell, I began smelling an odor, and it took me four floors to realize I was smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. I did a lot of travel for my company, and so I was in airports a lot. So I recognized that smell. People were speculating about what they were smelling. People were speculating about what was going on. Nobody had a clue. Michael Hingson 28:20 When I realized I was smelling jet fuel, I observed it to everyone around me, and they said, "You're right. That's what we're smelling. It's burning jet fuel. We must have been hit by an airplane. You see, no one knew. We had no clue. Superman and X-ray vision just aren't real. And the bottom line is, nobody knew what was actually happening on September 11th. Blindness have nothing to do with it. People want to feel more comfortable by saying, "Well, most people probably did know, but you're blind. You didn't know. We've got to get away from these habits of thinking that just because somebody is different than we are, that they're less than we are. That's just not true. In any case, the bottom line is that we we really deal with those kinds of things, and that helped me as as time went by recognize and realize that normal would never be the same again, and it validated more my belief that blindness isn't the problem; it's the misconceptions and poor attitudes that people have about blindness that tends to truly be the problem that we face. So, as I began to talk with reporters, I didn't think about what was actually happening. But later, I realized when people started saying, "Well, did you ever get counseling or therapy, and I said no. And then it just popped into my head to say I probably had the best therapy around. I got interviewed by hundreds of reporters that asked basically any question that you can imagine, and I learned to answer those questions without being upset, especially when they were asking pretty derogatory questions or making derogatory comments. Your dog led you down the stairs. No, my dog did not lead me down the stairs. Guide dogs do not lead; they guide. And I understand the definition of lead, but it's a little bit different than what people were truly saying. What they were saying is you didn't know anything, and the dog took you all the way down the stairs because the dog could see. No, in fact, Roselle didn't lead me. Roselle's job wasn't, and no guide dog's job is to lead a person or to take charge. The dog's job is to make sure that we walk safely. I also have a job on the team. My job is to make sure that I know where we're going and how to get there. A lot easier now than it was 25 years ago, but the bottom line is that I'm the one that has to direct the dog and give the dog commands, and the dog needs to make sure that we carry out those commands safely. We are a team; we work together. I've always kind of known that guide dog schools didn't necessarily early in my guide dog career, express it that way, but it's it's a much stronger statement now. They recognize that truly we're a team. We each have a job to do on the team, and we have to work together to make the team work, which is true of any team. I've mentioned Seal Team Six earlier. They're a team. They work together. The firefighters in the World Trade Center and the other people who who were around there worked as a team, and they had to work as a team in order to develop a level of trust and a relationship where essentially each person knew what the others on their team were going to do, and it gave them more of a confidence to be able to function. Teamwork is so crucial in our world, and I learned, and and again on September 11th, it was totally validated how teamwork is so important. Roselle and I worked together well. The firefighters worked together well. Yes, we lost people, but the team really is so important, and we need to recognize that anyone listening to this ought to work in any of the things that they do to develop teams. Being alone makes no sense; it isn't going to work. You're going to have to and should learn to work with other people to make teams work better. I've seen companies where when they have award ceremonies, the leader of a team or the boss of a team gets an award, but the rest of the team doesn't really get the same recognition. Michael Hingson 32:30 If a leader is truly doing a good job at creating a team and being a part of a team, then that leader is really enhancing everyone else on the team, and that leader is the person who should help to make sure that when awards are given, that everyone on a team is recognized. We need to to learn and realize that a team is a bunch of people. It's not just one people, but they learn to work together, and that is also so important. And as I learned more and more about the events of the World Trade Center, I learned and realized more about the whole understanding of teamwork and trust and the value of it. I knew about it with me and Roselle, and I recognized the concept of teamwork. But certainly, September 11th again validated that a whole lot more effectively than anything else that I could think of, but I worked with eight dogs over the years, and working with eight dogs from my first guide dog Squire, who was a golden retriever, up through my current guide dog Alamo, I've learned probably I think more than I ever learned from experts and teamwork and sales and so on and motivation. I learned more from those dogs than I ever learned from the human experts because of the fact that one, I had to build a team with a creature who didn't think the same way I did, who didn't talk the same language that I did, and that expected things from me, and and as one of the things that I've learned is that dogs who are guide dogs really want the human to be the pack leader because it is the pack leader, it is the human who's supposed to tell the dog what they want the dog to do, and dogs take that so incredibly seriously. I mentioned Linny. Well, I didn't mention her, I think, by name. But Lenny was my fourth guide dog, and we were out in in San Diego at a company meeting one Friday in May of 1999, and we came home. It was a Saturday morning that we got home. I flew a red eye home, fed Lenny, and then rested and and all that. But Saturday night, when it came time to feed Linny, I called her. She wouldn't come. Karen even called her. She wouldn't come. We went. Upstairs and found her lying on her bed, kind of really not very responsive. We got her to a veterinarian, and it took a few days for the veterinarian to diagnose what she had as something called glomerular nephritis, which is a disease where the kidneys, the glomeria of the kidneys, which would normally pass out bad stuff from the kidneys but not the good stuff. They were passing out the good stuff as well, and Lenny was was not doing well. We were able to reverse that, but she had to retire from being a guide dog. In fact, we thought in late June of 1999 that we were going to lose her. We went off to a a meeting, not a meeting, but we went off to a hotel to say goodbye to Linny, if you will, on like the second of July. But Linny didn't pass away then, and she did get better. And then Roselle came into our lives, and Roselle and Linny became really good friends, but I mention all of it because I had no clue what was happening to Linny. Guide dogs love their jobs; they take them very seriously. And the fact of the matter is, as I learned, and especially after September 11th, I learned that these dogs will work till they drop. They will. They will do everything they can to please us, because they love what we do. They love us, and we need to bestow the same kind of love on them, which is all part of what teamwork is all about. Well, the bottom line was with Linny. She was with us for three more years, and she got to play with Roselle a lot, and so on. Michael Hingson 36:41 Of course, as I also mentioned after September 11th, but I again, especially because of what happened to Linny, but then afterward on September 11th, I realized how much it was important for me to do all I could to keep the team relationship a positive, strong one, to recognize that in reality these dogs work so hard on their own part to make the team's relationships work. They they deal with what they have to deal with. They get very stressed if we're upset. They take it very personally if we get upset, even if we're not necessarily upset at them; they still take it very personally. The more stress that a guide dog faces in their lives, the harder it's going to be for them, and frankly, the shorter their lives are going to be. So I learned, even before September 11th, but especially after September 11th, to do all I could to keep the stress away from the dog. As we were going down the stairs on September 11th, I constantly encouraged and praised Roselle. What a good dog! Keep going. What a good job! Good girl, Roselle. Even if I wasn't able to hold the harness because the stairs were so crowded that Roselle couldn't walk next to me and had to walk behind me at heel, and I would just hold the leash. I kept praising her because I wanted her to know for her I was okay, and I had to focus on not being afraid and letting that fear come out. Well, I was fearful like anyone was, and in fact, I love to tell people. Being a great fan of science fiction, I have a great imagination, and I was listening for the building to make creaks and groans, and you never knew what was going to happen. Fortunately, it didn't all the way down. But the bottom line for me was that doing so kept me focused. And I and I learned later that while I might have been afraid on September 11th, partly because I was encouraging Roselle and working to sound very calm and confident, I was able to also help other people, but help Roselle and keep Roselle from being afraid and and being stressed. And I work very hard to do that with my guide dogs that I've had since even more than prior to September 11th. My current guide dog Alamo and I travel the world speaking all over the place, if you will. We've been to Israel. We've been well, actually, Alamo didn't get to go to London, but we've been to Israel with my seventh guide dog, Africa. We went to the Netherlands, Alamo and I have been to Wisconsin. I've been to a variety of places, and of course, all around the the world, all around the United States, to Canada, everywhere. And again, I don't necessarily know a lot about where we're going in advance, but I ask a lot of questions so that I can learn where we're going to go, so that I can give the dogs the appropriate commands. I mentioned Wisconsin's. I've been all over the United States. It's been an honor, and I'm going to continue to do that. If anybody wants a public speaker to come and talk to their organization, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from you. My email address is really simple. It's speaker@michaelhinkson.com. We'll put that in the show notes, and love to hear from you. So anyway, I learned a lot about teamwork from working with eight guide dogs, and I continue to learn every day. I think it's very important for me to learn and to focus all that I can to make sure that I do what it is that's necessary to make a team work, and I believe it is all about the team. I've mentioned that I've written three books, and each one was a collaboration with someone else: Susie Florey with Thunderdog, Jeanette Hanscom with Running with Roselle and Carrie Wyatt Kent with Live Like a Guide Dog, and and the fact of the matter is those collaborations I think were very important. Michael Hingson 40:49 They made the books come out a lot different than I might have imagined them coming out by themselves and the way I would have written them without having collaboration, and probably Live Like a guide dog more than more than the other two, just because of the way it all went. But with live like a guide dog, we focused on each of my my guide dogs and the lessons that we learned. So I mentioned Squire, who I worked with in high school and then went to college with Squire, and Squire was was all around where wherever I was. One night in a dorm, I was with a roommate. Well, actually, a person who lived in a room next door to mine, and I was in his room. We were dealing with a physics problem. By the way, my master's degree is in physics. I have a secondary teaching credential, but I was in with Richard dealing with a physics problem. When I went back into my room, there was no Squire. I didn't realize that a couple of the students decided to play a trick and kidnap him. I went looking around the dorm. I even went into the bathroom and opened the shower door and called Squire, and nothing was totally quiet, and finally, I was getting a little bit concerned. And one of the people said, "Oh well, look, we took the dog. We'll show you. They went into the bathroom, opened the shower door, and out comes Squire. He was in on it. He didn't do a thing when I opened the door, but when the other people did, then then he came out. I wasn't mad at him. Sneaky dog that he is, he had a great sense of humor. But I got vengeance because that that person didn't tell the other people that they showed him where showed me where Squire was. I went and hit Squire somewhere, and then I went back out into the main part of the dorm and I started going, "Who took my dog? What's going on? Where is he? And all the other people said, "Oh, come on, he's in the bathroom. And they went in and opened the door to the shower. No Squire, and they were starting to worry about what happened to him. And Squire, of course, was again not making noise. But eventually, I brought him out and I said, "Okay, I found him. I knew where he was. We're playing a trick on you just like you played a trick on me. That'll teach you. I learned that dogs have a sense of humor that day, but I also learned how much I valued having Squire around, and so Squire worked with me up until and through my first graduate year in physics at UC Irvine, and then Squire retired and went to live with my parents. And in 1973, I got my second guide dog, Holland. Holland was with me through 1986. He worked for almost 13 years, and in fact, was two weeks from retiring when he collapsed in our backyard one day, and we took him to the vet. And the vet said, "I could probably bring him out of whatever he's got, maybe a stroke or a heart attack or both, but he won't have a good quality of life. And so we said goodbye to to Holland. Holland and Squire were both golden retrievers, but again, Holland so strongly reinforced all the things that that I had felt about teamwork, and I learned so much more from him about what I needed to do in order to to function well, not just with a dog, but in my whole life. Then I got Klondike, who was my third guide dog, who was also a golden retriever. Soon after I got Klondike, well, about a year after I got Klondike, suddenly one day he had a very strong grand mal epileptic seizure, and we took him to the vet, and they put him on some medication that wasn't really helping that. And we then kept trying to to deal with it, and finally, and during that same time, I was looking for a job. I had owned my own company for four years, but decided I wanted to go back into the workforce, and and I finally got a job with a company. Michael Hingson 44:52 And on one of the first days that I worked there, Klondike had four grand mal seizures in the. Period of time, and we thought we were going to have to say goodbye to Klondike. But I talked to our veterinarian, and he said, "You know, before we do that, I want to send him to a neurologist who did an electroencephalograph. And he said, "I didn't see much, but he said one thing he did was to take some blood tests, and he said I noticed that his Klondike's thyroid level is low, and low thyroid levels in dogs like Klondike can make them more susceptible to have seizures, just like it can for children. Well, we put Klondike on synthroid, synthetic thyroid, as well as on phenobarbital to control the seizures. The synthroid had much more of an effect than the phenobarb did, Klondike actually became a much more active and playful and interactive dog, and did not have from that time on for the next seven years that he worked for me as a guide dog never had a single seizure. So the thyroid theory was a good one. Again, with with Klondike, it was about developing a team and recognizing that we had to work together. Well, then I got Linny, and again I mentioned Linny only worked for three years. Linny had glomerular nephritis that was really probably from a tick bite where the tick had Lyme's disease, and we didn't know any of that was happening until that night that Linny didn't wake up at all or didn't get up from her bed, and we finally got it diagnosed. And then I got Roselle. Now Roselle was a a wonderful dog. One of the things that I've always said is that when I get a new guide dog and I tell the trainers I want a dog with an on-off switch. That is, I want a dog that knows when the harness is on, it's time to work, and when the harness is off, then they can play. Clearly, Roselle had that when she was in harness. She was very focused. She did develop a phobia of thunderstorms, but there were a few times that we had thunderstorms, and she was able to continue to guide, even though she would shake and she would shiver a little bit. But she continued to guide. She focused. In fact, there was a thunderstorm the morning of September 11th, about 12:30 in the morning. But there was no thunder when we were going through what we did in the World Trade Center, so none of that caused her to be fearful. But again, Roselle was a dog that that taught me a lot about observation, learning what the dogs do, what what they fear, and how to help keep them focused and calm. And so I did that. My sixth guide dog was Meryl. Meryl only worked for about a year. Roselle retired in 2007. Merrill worked from 2007 to 2008, but Merrill became very fearful of guiding, and so ended up not being a guide dog very long. And I I'd never experienced that, although I had heard other people who had issues where dogs didn't work very long. Lenny only worked for three years, but a dog that didn't work for more than a year-that was unusual for me. However, poor Meryl wasn't able to do well as a guide, and so she retired. And then we got Africa. Now Africa was my seventh guide dog. Africa's mother was Fantasia. In January of 2006, we were working. I was working at Guide Dogs for the Blind, and we applied to be what were called breeder keepers. That is, they were the the people who would keep a breeder dog in their home because the guide dogs for the blind bred their own guide dogs and so on. And breeder keepers would keep dogs in their homes so that the dogs weren't just cooped up in kennels all day, and we volunteered to do that. And the director of breeding, Marina Hall, called us and said, "I've got four dogs for you to look at. I think one's better than the others for you, but I want you to come and meet these dogs. So we went down, and and she made the comment again. I think one dog is going to be better than the others. Michael Hingson 49:02 And and I said, well, if you think so strongly, but which one is it? Well, she finally sort of told us. She said, I didn't want to tell you, but I'll tell you. So she did. But anyway, the first dog who came in was a dog named Fantasia, and it works sort of the same way that when people get guide dogs, you're in a room. The dog is allowed to come in, and you see how the dog reacts to you. When I met Squire for the first time, I was sitting in a chair. They let Squire in. He came over and started sniffing me all over. Didn't leave me. He just started sniffing. And Bruce Benzler, who was the apprentice instructor at the time, later became director of Guide Dogs for the Blind, CEO anyway, anyway. Bruce then said, "Looks like you found a friend already, and we became friends. But anyway, when when Fantasia came into the room, she took one look at Karen and leaped into Karen's lap. She had no fear of the power wheelchair that Karen was using by that time. The other three dogs, we still looked at them, and they all expressed one level of fear or concern about being around this wheelchair. But Marina said Fantasia was the one that we thought you'd like best and would like you best, and she was. So anyway, in 2006, we got Fantasia in January, and later that year, she had a litter of puppies, and then in early or mid 2007, she Fantasia had her second litter. I guess it was late in 2006 she had the second litter, but anyway, by the middle of 2008, when we had to retire Meryl because she wasn't working out very well, we were notified that they found a dog that they thought would be a really good replacement for Meryl, and that's a dog named Africa. And Karen and I realized Africa was a name that we suggested as as breeder keepers that they could name one of their puppies if they had puppies who came from an A litter. And the way it works, by the way, is when a litter is born, they're assigned a letter of the alphabet, and they got a big book, and they go into that book and they get the next names that are available. They don't use names of current guide dogs, so when a dog retires, then they can start using that name again. But anyway, Africa was a name that we suggested, and as soon as we saw the email that said Africa, we knew Fantasia was Africa's mother. Well, Africa came and joined us, and mom and daughter did really well, and Roselle was still with us. So the three of them have a lot of fun together, but again with Africa, I learned about teamwork and doing the things that I needed to do. Every dog is different, and one of the things that I developed over the years was an understanding that to truly develop a relationship with a dog takes probably close to a year by the time we really are totally comfortable with each other, but I worked with Africa. We became good friends. Africa became good friends with Roselle. Of course, Africa liked her mom, and all worked out really well. Developing those teeming relationships is so important, and you can learn a lot more about them if you get live like a guide dog. I think you'll find them all very interesting to to read about. So in 2017, I noticed that Africa was starting to slow down and not do as well. She wasn't able to see as well at night. Sort of typical signs of a dog getting older, even though I work to to keep stress out as much as possible, but I applied and in 2018 on the 9th of February, Africa's puppy raisers, Bill and Peggy Sproul from San Francisco or San Diego rather, came to visit us in Victorville, and we had offered them the opportunity to take Africa because we had Fantasia, and we had Africa. And if we kept Africa and Fantasia, and I got a new guide dog, Karen would have a hard time taking care of two dogs when I traveled, because I was doing a great deal of travel by then as a keynote speaker, and so the Sprouls came and got Africa. Michael Hingson 53:26 Left our house, Africa didn't even look back. She was gone. We had visited her several times since then, and and in in the Sprouls home, Africa died in 2020. But we we got to visit Africa several times and it was a lot of fun and and she she loved us and all that and remembered us anyway on the 11th of February two days later I went to Guide Dogs for the Blind and I met Alamo who was my first black Labrador and I met him we we met in the room and he kind of sniffed me a little bit and walked around the room. But then came back and sniffed me, and then I took him on leash back to our our dorm room at Guide Dogs for the Blind, and I decided I'd sit on the floor to to visit with him. And the next thing I know, this big, huge, 60 pound Labrador is in my lap. Alamo was and is a lapdog, but he doesn't know a stranger, which is great. I mentioned earlier that I always said that when I get a guide dog, I want a guide dog that has an on and off switch. Another thing that I require is that guide dogs that I get be raised by cats. I have known of animals who of guide dogs who don't like cats, and I would not want that because we always have had cats. And by that time, when we got Alamo, we had Stitch, who we rescued in January of 2015. So now here it is, February of 2018. So I knew that we needed to have a dog that wasn't going to be. Be afraid of cats. Well, so Stitch and Alamo kind of walked around each other a little bit when we first went home, but they got to like each other pretty well pretty quickly, and they have been together ever since. Alamo has been on a number of aircraft, as I've mentioned over the years, he went to Israel with me. He didn't go to England when I spoke in 2024, but he's been to other places and will continue to travel with me. I work really hard to keep the stress out of his life. I don't want him to become any more stressed than he ever has to be, and he feeds off of how I behave, as as I've learned guide dogs do. So that's one of the most important things that I've learned is to keep that stress out of his life. I would point out that is just as much true for human teams. Don't stress out your team. If you are a leader, your job is to enhance what those leaders, what the team does. Your job isn't to boss them around. If you're doing that, you're only causing more stress, and you're going to find you're going to have a big job turnover, much more than you really should. I've always felt that my job isn't to boss people around when I hire them, my job is to enhance their abilities by using the skills that I have and learning to work with them to give them the benefit of what I know and to use the benefits of what they know to learn myself as well, so that we become more effective. And the people who really get that do very well. The people who didn't get that tend not to last very long at the company because they don't perform very well. Because I know that in reality, I add value to the team by working to add value, not bossing the team around. I think there's a big difference between leaders and bosses, and I've learned that over the years. That leaders are people who can enhance what other people do, who work to make the whole team effective and not just try to boss people around. In late 2020, I discovered a company called Accessibe, A C C E S S I capital B E. Website is accessibee.com. Was a company that made products to help make internet websites more inclusive, and at first, they had some challenges because they were using a lot of AI stuff to make their products work, and they sort of did. But there were there were challenges. But one day in January of 2021, the founder of the company, Sheer Eckerling. Michael Hingson 57:41 contacted me and said we're interested in you joining the company. I had been looking at possibly selling their products because the pandemic had hit, and I thought I could sell them from home because we were locked down. And and he said, well, you know, we we'd like you to not sell as a partner, just on your own, we'd like you to join the company. Well, he asked what I was doing, and by that time I had started to learn about podcasting because I couldn't travel and speak all over the world. So what I decided to do was to look at using podcast as a revenue source. And Shear said, "Well, you know, we we're really interested in having somebody do a podcast for us. And I said, "What do you want? And he said, "I want to just get somebody who will do a podcast to show that we're part of the world. And you join the company; you could do that in part. I joined the company, and he didn't have any specific agenda for the podcast. So, in August of 2021, I began Unstoppable Mindset, and soon it became unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. And I'll explain all of that in a moment. But the point is that we started the podcast. I created the title. I recreated the description, and I wanted the podcast to be conversations. And as anyone who has been on the podcast knows, we don't do interviews as such. We do conversations, and I ask people to send me materials to help me prepare to be able to do the conversation. And so a number of times we've had diversity experts on people from the DEI world, and when I ask them what they do, they say, you know, we focus a lot on diversity, and I say, what does that mean? And they say, well, we deal with race, gender, sexual orientation, and so on. And we chat for a little while, and then I say, but you haven't talked about disabilities. And they say, oh, disability is not a minority. And I say, what do you mean? He said, well, disability is a social justice thing. It's not like race, gender, or sexual orientation. And my response to that is balderdash. I like to use balderdash. I could go back and use what Colonel Sherman Potter did on Mash and say monkey muffins. But anyway, balderdash because diversity should include disability because it is a minority. Even the Center for Disease Control says that. Adversity, or that that people with disabilities are a minority of about 25% of people in the United States. Well, so the bottom line for me is that I would say to them, "What do you mean you're you're not including it? And they say, "Well, it's a it's a disability, but it's social justice. It's always about being a lack of ability, and as I have learned, especially since September 11th and and beyond, disability does not mean a lack of ability. You might want to think it does. You might want to try to make that fit, but it doesn't. And I learned that most effectively in March of 2023 when I went to something, by that time Karen had passed, and I was working with a person who had been Karen's caregiver, who decided to work for me. Very grateful for Josie doing that. Josie entered my name in the contest to be a guest at the Kelly and Ryan Oscar after party, which was going to be held the Monday after the Oscars at the Dolby Theater, well, I didn't even know she entered me, but I got a call the Tuesday before the Oscar after party and the Oscars, and I was and I picked up the phone and they said congratulations, and I said for what? Oh, you won an invitation to come to the Kelly and Ryan Oscar after party, and I went really well. Anyway, I went down with my niece and nephew, Tracy and Charlie Green. The there wasn't room for taking Josie, her husband, and her mother and her five kids. So it was just me, Tracy, and Charlie. Michael Hingson 1:01:37 We got up to our room about 3o'clock in the afternoon on the Saturday before the Oscars, the day before the Oscars, we put our luggage in our room and we were coming back down the main stairwell staircase actually from the third to the first floor in the Hollywood Roosevelt. It's a very open staircase, and all of a sudden I heard people screaming, and it took me a while to to try to understand what's going on, and finally I couldn't figure it out. I said, Tracy, what's going on? And she said, Oh, we just lost power and lighting on the stairs, and and power and lighting in and around the entire hotel. Now it didn't bother Tracy. Tracy had known me for a long time, but people were panicky because they weren't getting all the light they expected, even though the windows were open, the the shades were up on the first floor in the lobby, and so on. Lots of light, but it wasn't all that people expected. And I thought about that, and what I learned from that was, it proves that disability isn't a lack of ability; it proves that disability is a characteristic that we all have. Thomas Edison and others worked on the light bulb, and Thomas Edison is credited with developing the electric light bulb back in 1878. But in the 148 years since the light bulb was developed, all society has done in that regard is worked very hard on coming up with better ways of providing light on demand, so that you sighted people could have all the light you want when you want it. Nowadays, we have smartphones, we have flashlights, we have other ways of getting light on demand. But as the Americans with Disabilities Act would describe it. The light bulb is simply, or any piece of technology that produces light on demand, is simply a piece of technology that provides light on demand to light-dependent people who otherwise don't function well without it. The bottom line is, disability is not a lack of ability. We got words like discrete, discern, disciple. What is discern? Is it a lack of discern? What is it? What is disciple? A lack of viple? No. Disability is not a lack of ability. Disability is a character

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Episode 474 – Unstoppable After 9/11: Two Survivors Share Their Stories with Bob Ellis

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 11, 2026 79:58

September 11, 2001, changed Bob Ellis's life, just as it changed mine. Bob was working at the Pentagon that morning and had walked out of the building only minutes before Flight 77 struck the area where his meeting had taken place. You will hear how he immediately became part of the response, helping organize emergency supplies and support for those working at the Pentagon. We also compare our experiences from two different locations that day, Bob at the Pentagon and me at the World Trade Center with my guide dog Roselle. Twenty-five years later, our conversation is about more than remembering 9/11. It is about leadership, teamwork, service, controlling fear, and deciding what we do with the life we have been given. I believe Bob's story offers lessons we can all use when the unexpected happens. Highlights: 05:29-Bob shares how his early life and military support career shaped his path. 23:53-He recalls realizing the first World Trade Center strike was not an accident. 32:59-Bob describes being just 300 yards away when the Pentagon was hit. 37:00-He explains how he helped organize emergency relief supplies within hours. 1:03:54-Michael reflects on survival, fear, and the responsibility to move forward. 1:06:55-Bob shares the lasting life lessons he took from September 11. About the Guest: Bob Ellis is the Vice President, American Logistics Association responsible for Exchange, MWR, Food Service Operations. The native of Fort Walton Beach, Florida began his career with AAFES in 1972. From 1972 through 1984, he held retail management positions as a Branch Manager, and Operations Manager Main Store. In 1985, Ellis began a string of assignments as an Exchange General Manager trainee at Fort Belvoir, VA, and Exchange General Manager, Fort Hamilton, NY and Carlisle Barrack PA, (Army War College). Assignments as Area Retail Manager and General Manager at the former Japan Area Exchange ran from 1989-1992. In 1992, Ellis was transferred to Travis AFB in California as Retail Manager, Main Store. In 1994, Ellis was selected for the General Manager's position at Travis and spent three years assisting in the design and new construction effort of the largest retail Main Store ever constructed by AAFES. From 1997 to 2002, Ellis held the position of Director of AAFES' Washington Office, serving as the principal representative of the Commander, AAFES to the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Departments of the Army and the Air Force, Congressional offices and industry representatives. Notable among his accomplishments, Ellis was instrumental in spearheading AAFES support to the Pentagon after the attacks of September 11th. Within 48 hours of the event, AAFES established a mobile exchange in the shadow of the impact site to support rescue workers and investigators with critical need and personal comfort items. After Washington, Ellis moved to AAFES Headquarters' in Dallas to assume the Vice President Specialty and Consumables position. In this role, Ellis was responsible for the SD-C Category Team Managers/Buyers. In August 2003, Ellis took his a position as Vice President of Corporate Planning and Communications where he managed the development of AAFES long range and contingency planning programs, oversight of corporate public affairs and ensured compliance with Department of Defense policy guidance with the goal of preserving and protecting the exchange benefit for soldiers and airmen and their families around the globe. Bob joined the ALA on 31 July 2006 where he continues to serve a role in military resale supporting Exchange, MWR, and Food Service, operations still serving military resale over 51 years continuous service. Ways to connect with Bob**:** You can find more benefits how Branded Riches can help you build your Brand, Product, Business, and Yourself at https://www.BrandedRiches.com Connect: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neryk-davydov Branded Riches Audiobook by Neryk Davydov https://www.audible.com/pd/Branded-Riches-Audiobook/B0GCP9MMRB Branded Riches Book https://www.amazon.com/Branded-Riches-Increase-Income-Irresistible/dp/1987753836 $5 Free Gift for Creating A New Ovato Wallet www.ovatoCoin.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:00 Everyone, I am Michael Hingson, the host of Unstoppable Mindset. You've heard my voice for the last 471 episodes, but I'm calling you all out today and asking you to listen to this because we're going to make a special announcement now regarding the next four episodes, starting with 472. We're going to help commemorate the historic events of September 11, 2001. Yes, they're definitely historic, although not necessarily the most positive things that have ever happened. But as many of you may know, I was in the World Trade Center working on September 11, 2001, on the 78th floor of Tower One, and escaped with my guide dog. I've delivered a speech about that, which we put in the first episode of this podcast series back in August of 2021. But this Friday, episode 472 is going to have an updated speech that I delivered just a few years ago at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. That festival is a yearly event celebrating different kinds of things that have happened in American history, and I was invited to come and speak, which I did. I'm going to put that speech up for you as episode 472. I think you'll find it enlightening. It'll teach you something about blindness and blind people. It'll tell you my story, and it'll give you some inspiration that I hope you will find helpful. Next Tuesday, september 8, Michelle Abraham is going to interview me. Michelle is with Amplify You, the company that does all of our back office stuff and helps me with the editing and other things regarding the podcast. Michelle owns her own podcast, and she is going to interview me about September 11th and other kinds of things relating to what I've learned and things that have happened over the past 25 years. She's also going to be putting this up on her podcast Amplify You, so you can find us in a lot of different places. On September 11th, I'm going to chat with Bob Ellis. Bob was in the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, and had literally just walked out the door of the Pentagon when the plane crashed into the Pentagon and did the things and the damage that it did, and of course generated all the things that occurred at the Pentagon. On the 15th of September, I'm going to come back and have a conversation with all of you about lessons that I've learned over the past 25 years, and just reminisce a little bit about all of that. While the podcast is occurring on September 11th, I will be actually in Kilgore, Texas, doing a speech about September 11th. So lots of things going on, I hope you listen to these episodes. I hope that you'll tell everyone that you can about them. I really enjoy all of the support that you've given us over the years, and we're going to continue to do things with Unstoppable Mindset. And of course, as always, if you'd like to come on or know anyone who would, please let us know. We're always looking for guests. Thanks very much. We'll see you on Friday with the first of these four episodes. What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. You are listening to us today, or at least I'm assuming you're listening just when this came out. But whenever you're listening, it is today, September 11th, 2026, which is needless to say, a special day. If you have kept up with my podcast from the beginning, you know that I worked in the World Trade Center on September 11th, and ever since then I've been a public speaker, traveling the world, talking about trust, teamwork, leadership, the human-animal bond, and a variety of things. But recently, I met Bob Ellis. Michael Hingson 04:40 Now, Bob, as it turns out, on September 11th worked at the Pentagon, and I have not ever really had the opportunity to talk with someone who was at the Pentagon, especially on September 11th. But we get to chat about that today, and Bob knows our rules, which are basically. He sent me a series of questions that he wants to cover, but we are doing this as a conversation, so we'll probably talk about a lot of the things that he specifically sent. But we can go any old way that Bob wants to go, so that's what we'll we'll make this really fun. And I'm really looking forward to having the opportunity to talk with Bob. So again, welcome to September 11th, and Bob, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad you're here, Bob Ellis 05:28 Michael. Thank you for inviting me. I know you you've inquired several times, and I've debated it, and and I was just holding it for the right time, and this is the right time-the 25th anniversary of the event. Michael Hingson 05:40 Yeah, it is, and and and as as we've said, if you find anybody who needs a a speaker to come in and speak, let me know. But but for now, we get to chat about you and and hear your story, which I think is the important thing. I think we'll probably talk about both of our stories in the course of the day, no doubt about it. But I really am glad that you are here and that you are able to to talk with us today and and and talk about things. So let's start the way I love to start with people. Let's start at the beginning. Tell me kind of about the early Bob growing up and so on. Let's start with that. Bob Ellis 06:17 Well, I I grew up in let's say grew up until I was four years old. I lived. I was born in Pensacola, Florida. Lived in the Panhandle. Mother and father got divorced, and we moved to Norfolk, Virginia. And it was just my my mother and I until I was 14 years old. And I found out about my dad and found some letters from him and insisted to go see him. And so, between 14 and 15, I made a couple of unauthorized attempts to to make my way to Florida. On the third attempt, I made it, and it was quite a surprise for my father. Ended up living with him and being my closest friend up until I had he had grandkids, we had kids, and so I lived and grew up in the Destin, Fort Worth, Fort Walton area. Went to work, and this is where the story begins. I went to work at Eglin Air Force Base as a as a janitor in a gas station for the Army Air Force Exchange Service, so that I could continue to play high school football and practice, was a great job. It was an opportunity to work with the military, be around the military, and I took great pride in that feeling that that that that while I I wanted to go into the air force and I wanted to fly jets, that opportunity just never presented itself because the Vietnam War was going on and they were banking pilots instead of taking pilots. Anyway, I I ended up staying with the Army Air Force Exchange Service for 34 years. I moved all over the world. I've seen the every AOR and every combat scenario since the Vietnam War. Not in the Vietnam War, but I was in the refugee program, helping with the resettlement back in 1972, 1973. Spent the rest of my career going wherever they sent me, and and and that was from Tokyo, Japan, to to Tuli, Greenland, to California, and ultimately to to Texas. Michael Hingson 08:30 I remember during the Vietnam War, someone called me one day. I was a student at UC Irvine, and there was a refugee camp fairly close to the university, and someone said, and someone said, "There's a blind young man at the sent at the refugee center, and we should go see him. And so we we bought a transistor radio for him and went out to visit with him and spent some time with him, and I never got to see him after that. But I hope I hope he did well. He he seemed like he was doing okay, but he was a little bit lost, needless to say, because it's a whole bunch of people. There are no a lot of people who knew much about blindness and blind people, but I would presume he did reasonably okay. I hope so, but that was the only time I specifically had an involvement with him or anyone at the refugee camps. Later, when I met my wife Karen, she lived, I think, a door down, and she and her parents lived a door down from a Vietnamese couple, and he was a tailor and actually made her wedding dress, which was kind of cool, and so we got to spend a fair amount of time with the Voo's, which was was good, but what's. Interesting for me now, with with now being well so many years later. In November, I will be going to do a speech in Hanoi, so I'm really looking forward to to going over there and and experiencing it. At least it'll be a little bit cooler then than it probably is now. So we'll see, but it'll be it'll be pretty enjoyable to go and again see a different a different part of the world, and I I think we'll be fine. At least that's that's that's the plan. Bob Ellis 10:34 That that that that tour that I had at Eglin Air Force Base with the refugees, will come back to to to 911 2001 and the experiences that I had at that refugee camp replicated in the Pentagon park and lot there in 911. So we'll get to that. I'll explain it further. Michael Hingson 10:56 Yeah, I'm sure it was a a great a great lesson. Where did you do college, or did you Bob Ellis 11:03 went to went to Duke University and the University and the University of Maryland? Michael Hingson 11:10 Okay. Well, at Bob Ellis 11:12 least much of it was correspondence as well, only because I was deployed for for so many years back to back, 17 moves in 34 years. Michael Hingson 11:22 Wow, Duke University. At least you didn't go to one of those other schools in North Carolina. Boy, talk about talk about rivalries and basketball. What a what a group down there. Bob Ellis 11:35 Oh, I know, I know. Michael Hingson 11:38 I once spoke in Kentucky, and the Wildcats were in the NCAA championship that year, and I was asked to speak at an event on the night of the championship. But I was told I had to end by 630. I could not go one second past 630 because the gym I was speaking in was going to clear out. Well, I ended in time so that at 630, what they said was absolutely true. That gym cleared out. Everybody went home to watch the game. Bob Ellis 12:09 That's that's sports. Michael Hingson 12:11 Not sports. It is, but it's okay. I I learned a lot down there and got to meet a number of people, and so it was it was a lot of fun to to do it, and then years later I was in North Carolina when NC State and UNC were playing to see who was going to go into the championship. So again, pretty interesting world, and and sports ruled everything then, so it's okay. It Bob Ellis 12:43 hasn't it hasn't changed at all because my my my daughter I got her graduate studies done at NC State, and it hasn't changed a bit. It's just I'll bet it's just crazy as it's when was 20 3040 years ago, Michael Hingson 12:58 and it shall ever be, won't it? Bob Ellis 13:01 Yeah, yeah. Her undergraduate degree was at University of Texas. This was my son's, and she went on to NC State, and and he went on to medical school in in Houston. Michael Hingson 13:16 Okay. Well, UC Irvine, when I was there, had the championship water polo team, but that's what we had. But they started basketball while I was there, although it wasn't anything huge. But a couple of years ago, they made it to the Sweet 16, and that was kind of fun for UC Irvine. One of these days, it'll go all the way. Bob Ellis 13:40 Yep. Michael Hingson 13:41 Well, anyway, so you you went to college, and and what did you major in? Bob Ellis 13:45 Political science. Michael Hingson 13:47 Okay, political science Bob Ellis 13:48 and business management. With a with my two aspirations, I wanted to. I really wanted to major in in aviation science, but that that wasn't offered. So that's political science and business science, business law. Michael Hingson 14:06 But you were working for the Army Air Force Exchange Service. What is that exactly? Bob Ellis 14:11 Yeah, it's a it's it's it's a non-appropriated funded Service provided all goods. I think of it as the the Walmart or the Target of of the civilian sector, except the Army Air Force Exchange Service has stored everything from stores, every business that you can think of therein, from stores to convenience stores to gas stations to beauty shops and barber shops to dining facilities, franchise Burger Kings, anything that a soldier and his family needs at the base or overseas or in the combat arena, where we were there with it, providing it. It's been a great career. Michael Hingson 14:59 Did you? Do you have any involvement with, especially here in the U.S. the the Randolph Sheppard programs, the blind vending stand operations at any of the facilities? Bob Ellis 15:09 Yep, sure did many many times. We're still working with it. There's there's some issues present right now under the Randolph Shepherd that they're looking at. I don't know what what's going to change, but yes, sir, we were very, very close to that. Michael Hingson 15:24 Yeah, I know there. The current government's looking at it; they want to scale a lot of it back, which would, I think, not be a good thing. I think there's a lot of reasons to keep it, but we'll see. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. But I, the closest I ever came to dealing with anything from AAES was I was invited to speak once at an organizational meeting of the National Property Managers Association in the military. Are you familiar with that? Bob Ellis 15:56 I am. Yes. Michael Hingson 15:57 And when I was asked to come, the Speakers Bureau didn't do a good research job because they told me, "Oh, it's the people who rent apartments and all that. When I got down to the to the event, I will say that the National Property Managers Association certainly serves a nice breakfast. But anyway, the conversation just didn't seem like what I what I was expecting. So I asked somebody, and they told me that the organization was the organization that had complete jurisdiction over anything physical that the government owned, and Bob Ellis 16:30 absolutely Michael Hingson 16:31 that that changed my grass. Sorry, Bob Ellis 16:34 right down to the grass, right down to the grass and the concrete. Michael Hingson 16:37 There you go. Well, it also changed my speech in 10 minutes, but it was fun. They invited me back the next year, so that was good. But it's it's fun when you're you're planning to do a particular speech, and suddenly it turns out it's got to change. It's good to have the flexibility to do that. But I'm I'm glad I had the opportunity to do it, and hopefully we'll have opportunities to do it again, but you have served a lot of different kinds of of services within AAES, and and I assume that's all worked out pretty well. Bob Ellis 17:14 That that worked out very well. Yep, I had I started at the bottom and and climbed as close to the top as I possibly could, but Michael Hingson 17:23 you eventually got the the highest medal that was available for civilians when you retired or after you retired. Bob Ellis 17:31 No, the highest award that I ever received was from my man over the Pentagon 911 support program, which was a nice medoris civilian award. Michael Hingson 17:46 Okay, where is your favorite place to live in the world? Or is that really easy to say? I mean, you've been all over the place and seen a lot of different kinds of places. Don't know how much you got to two of them, but anyway, Bob Ellis 18:00 it wasn't the two places that I that I went overseas, which was Japan and Greenland. Those were the longest tours of my life. Beautiful country in Japan, and and great facilities and support in tuning Greenland. But I would I would guess throughout the United States, I had a great assignment at the Army War College, and I had a great assignment at Travis Air Force Base here in Michael Hingson 18:26 California. Yeah, Bob Ellis 18:28 yeah. Michael Hingson 18:30 I've spoken. Bob Ellis 18:30 My son was born in Japan. He's dual citizen as a result on the Air Force Base, and my daughter was born in California. So it was a great time, mainly because the kids were younger and and and and we were in great climate areas. Michael Hingson 18:48 When people ask me what my favorite place in the United States is, I say everywhere. I I just enjoy meeting people wherever I go in the U.S. It's so many different cultures and customs and ways of doing things. It is so fun to to see all the different places and see how they are. People ask what I like, where I like outside the U.S. And so far, it's been New Zealand. I would say is probably the best, but Japan has to be up there too. I've really enjoyed being in Japan. I've been there a couple times, and I thoroughly enjoyed Bob Ellis 19:23 it. I, I had, I think the most the the greatest thing about the assignments was some of the people I I got to to meet in in my in my tours. One of them would be the Crown Prince of of Thailand, who who is now the king of Thailand, King Rama, got to meet him when he was a pilot, and supported him when when I was at Yokota Air Base, and multiple other celebrities. I I had the opportunity as a kid to attend the funeral. For Douglas MacArthur, and and his his memorial was right across the street in North Virginia from where my mother worked. And 20 years later, I had the opportunity to to meet mrs. Mcarthur, Jean MacArthur, at Gracie Mansion in New York, and I I I wrote protocol. I when it came time for her to to meet me and meet meet her, I got down on one knee and I held her hand and I said, "I want to tell you a little story, ma'am. And she said, "Well, certainly, absolutely. And I told her the story how when the general had died in in 1964, I was required by my my mother to go to the funeral, and the most fascinating person I'd ever seen in my life was herself, and she just got she just turned red. Well, long story short, I was at an army command at Fort Hamilton. The next day, the the group the the installation commander called me over to his office, very angry, but he wanted me to know that I was going to be the first civilian aide for the old lady, which was mrs. Mcarthur, and he had to take one of his lieutenants off. And I got to know the family and and the Mcarthurs as a result of that. So lots of opportunities, just absolutely amazing. 911, and we'll get to it. I got to meet President Bush momentarily, but I I got to meet him and have a short conversation. Michael Hingson 21:32 I got to meet him in 2005. We went to the Oval Office, and we were supposed to have a two minute photo op, but he kept wanting to interact. We ended up talking for about 15 minutes. He kept the Italian ambassador or prime minister waiting, but it was a was a great conversation. I very much enjoyed having the opportunity to meet with him. Bob Ellis 21:53 Yeah, he was remarkable. Michael Hingson 21:54 Yeah, in in so many ways. If Speaker 1 22:00 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson 22:33 So that's that's pretty cool. So as you were going around to all these different places, what would you say you were learning. Bob Ellis 22:41 I was learning business. I was learning relationships. I was learning marketing. Pretty much anything that you wanted to do as a general manager or a vice president, the exchanges let you do it. You know, until you got too far gone, and they they reel you back in. But I love being able to run multiple businesses on the installation, and and be accountable for them, and run them at a profit, and and at the end of the day, do great things for military families. Michael Hingson 23:16 Wow! So you um, you you've you've had a lot of challenges and and had to learn a lot of different things. Needless to say, but I would would think that you've you've been able to to keep a lot of that and use it. And you know we've referred to September 11 th, and so let's let's get to around that time. The first thing I would ask, and people have asked me, but you're in a better position in theory than I. Did you have any inkling that something like September 11th was going to happen? Bob Ellis 23:53 Well, actually, September 11th was was happening. I left for work about 4:30 in the morning. I lived out in the suburbs in Centerville, Virginia, and it was one of those days that you just wished you didn't have to go to work. It was the as the sun was coming up, it had a little cold breeze to it. The skies were blue. It was just one of those days that you just wanted to sit out in the yard and and relax or go bicycling, whatever. But I did my duty and I drove in to the Washington D.C. area and reported to my office on time, which was right around 5o'clock. My staff showed up around six and some at seven, and my secretary came in, and I don't know exactly what time it was, but it was shortly after, right around 9o'clock in Eastern Time, when the first airplane had hit the the trade center. Michael Hingson 24:49 Yeah, Bob Ellis 24:49 846-940-6846, Yes, right, 846. Yeah, and and so I I went in to look at the. The the television monitor standing there it was just her and I at the time and and and I said that's not an accident and she says how do you know that I said look at the skies that was an airliner they were talking about it was a little small private aviation well I'm a pilot I've been a pilot for 40 years 41 years I knew exactly, you know, that that where it was, what it was doing, and that wasn't a it wasn't an accident. And and my inkling was is that I was in a in rented space in Arlington, Virginia, because we had been moved out because the wedge that got attacked was the one that was still under construction. My office had not been completed there, and and I had a meeting in that wedge at 9o'clock that morning. And my secretary said to me, "You know, Bob, the Pentagon is next. And I paused for a minute and I looked at her and I said, "How in the world could you even imagine that, you know that that that's a fortress? Who would be crazy enough to attack the Pentagon? And she says, I I just I don't want you to go over, you know, just just just do it by phone, which I I probably could have done. And I said, No, I'm I'm going to go over there. If they're going if they're going to attack the Pentagon, I'm going to go down with it, and that was kind of my philosophy. So, in the back of my mind, seeing that airplane hit the Trade Center and her telling me that certainly made me wonder if it wasn't a possibility. Michael Hingson 26:33 So, you didn't. You don't think that anyone, and I've never heard of any such, but that anyone had any advance notice? There wasn't chatter. There wasn't anything that made people suspect what might be getting ready to happen. Bob Ellis 26:47 No, I I I think that is the the worst our country has ever been off guard. It reminds me of you know the the attack on Hawaii and that you know in in Pearl Harbor. We were completely unprepared, and I thought we were completely unprepared on 911. And in fact, after the attack, I knew we were unprepared when I saw the two jets fly over with no armament on the wings. So no, I don't think anybody had any idea. Michael Hingson 27:18 Well, the other side of it, and I've talked about this in in some talks I've given. I talk a lot about trust and teamwork, and like it or not, one of the things that I observe is you had 19 terrorists who functioned well enough as a team that they didn't talk about it. They didn't let anything come out. So no matter how much armament or whatever we might have had, I'm not sure whether we could have predicted that on September 11th, what occurred was going to happen. Bob Ellis 27:49 You know, all the indicators were there. You know, those those 19 trained at private airports, and they and during their training, it was it was reported multiple times that all they were interested in was taking off, not landing. I mean, first clue, you know. Okay. Why would you just be interested? He's taking off an airplane, and and I always found that very curious, and I'd heard it several times. That should have set alarm bells off. Should have. It didn't. Apparently, it did. Michael Hingson 28:20 Good point, and you know the the thing is though that, as as you pointed out, who would have thought that anybody would attack the Pentagon, the fortress that it was? Who Bob Ellis 28:33 yeah, Michael Hingson 28:33 who would have thought? So again, you can only go by what you got, and so nobody, I think, would have ever imagined that. Well, of course, the first plane hit the World Trade Center, and at first, people didn't really know what happened because there were really not very many people who who saw it. In fact, we only have the few photos that were taken by the French photographers who were there for something else, but then a little after nine, the second plane hit, and that changed the dynamic and changed the perspective a lot. Although a bunch of people who started seeing it on TV thought it was just a movie, and it wasn't true, but the second plane hitting changed the attitudes. I think for most people, and that's when people knew something was going on. Bob Ellis 29:24 Yeah, I didn't know anything about the second trade center. I had left my office in Crystal City, and I had headed to the Pentagon. And the meeting, the meeting that I had was with the Army Personnel Chief and several other folks. And as it turned out, that is exactly the window that the airplane flew into. That was ground zero for the for the for the target for the airplane going in just above the first floor for the Pentagon. So I didn't know anything. I was I was trapped at that point. I was trapped. Couldn't go um. Wouldn't go um. Didn't want to go um. And I had lived in New York City for five years, and I was my biggest. I was always impressed by the New York City Fire Department. I mean, they're they're just walking heroes if you've ever seen them. I mean, they were like they were like giants when you got next to them, and that they would they were just superhumans. And I always wondered upon the top floors how in the world you would get a fire put out at the top of the World Trade Center, and and I did not know until two days later when I made it home. That was my first question to my family: How did they get the the fire out at the top of the World Trade Center? And I and and it was repeated to me centers, and I said, What are you talking about? Centers in my family, and they said, "Bob, the World Trade Centers are gone. I said, "I don't understand. How could they be gone? And that was that. That was you know two days later that I found out about that. It was quite a shock to me to learn what it actually while I was on on the Pentagon mission. Michael Hingson 30:58 Well, when the first plane hit. Well, in the second plane, the firefighters were going up the stairs carrying all their equipment, and I had had had known about that and asked people, "Well, why are you or would you be carrying equipment? Because I met I I didn't meet the FDNY people ahead of the World Trade Center attacks, but I did meet with other people to learn about emergency preparedness and so on because I felt as the leader of an office, it was my job to know because I wasn't going to be able to read signs, and I love information, so I was trying to learn all I could, and they told me that where would if you if you had equipment stored in the in the towers, then people would go to it. Firefighters would go to it and get the the equipment. What floor do you put it on? Because no matter what floor you put it on, what if the fire broke out one floor below? You know, you can't get to the equipment. So the only way they could get up the stairs to fight the fires was to carry all of the equipment with them, yep, yep. Not enough is said about those guys in history. No, and I met a number of them coming up the stairs as we were going down, and they wanted to escort me down, and I didn't want them to do that because I knew they were a team, and I I pushed back pretty hard and said, no, you guys go up and we'll go down unless we can help you fight the fires, and they said no. The reason they eventually let me go down without any assistance was I had a friend with me who could see, and I said, "Look, David can see. Don't worry about us. And David and they turned to David and they said, "You're with him. And David said, "Yeah, leave him alone. He's fine. So we went on down, and they went up. I don't know whether the people we interacted with made it down or perished up above. It was about 10 after 10 after nine or so when we got to the 30th floor where we met them. So it was another hour and almost 20 minutes before the tower collapsed, but I don't know where the firefighters were, or how many people from the groups that we interacted with perished, or if they all made it out. I don't know, but Bob Ellis 33:12 yep, I I memorized all those numbers. You know, 189 between the airplane and the Pentagon, 200 injured, but 189. 189 total were 64 on the airplane, 125 in the Pentagon, and I'll never forget those numbers. Yeah, I'll never forget the time. I looked at my watch at 9:17, and and I have to tell you that on 9/11, I always sit very quietly until I get past 917, not 937. I'm sorry, 937. Michael Hingson 33:48 So Bob Ellis 33:48 in the morning. Michael Hingson 33:49 So, how close were you to where the plane came into the Pentagon? Bob Ellis 33:56 About 300 yards. When when it was clear that the meeting wasn't going to happen because the air traffic control system had been shut down. They released us to go back to our our offices, and I was going out the front door. I left about 930. It was supposed to start at nine 930. The generals said we'll just reconvene, and and I agreed. And from his office on on the south portico, I was walking out the front door. Literally, I heard the engines spool up. I had been in the AOR in rail combat munitions, and and I've heard cruise missiles, and and I could hear this one spinning up, and I thought it was a cruise missile, and so when it hit when it hit the building, it was just it was just a horrendous sound. But my first impression was to run to it to see what happened, what what what caused that, and there was nothing there. It was just four or five cars burning and smoke billowing out of the building. And and the the rest turned into a you know a rescue and a a recovery. Michael Hingson 35:08 AOR is what Bob Ellis 35:10 the area of responsibility. Michael Hingson 35:13 Okay, area of responsibility. Okay, Bob Ellis 35:16 yeah, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, wherever we are, it's it's N A O R, and that's your A O R. That's state. That's where you are. So that that's where I encountered first first and only live person coming out of the building, and which was a which was a really big surprise. But I knew that there was something that I I had to do, and and one of the things was to, if he needed assistance, getting him assistance. And there were several people. He was he was he was burned third degree burns over his whole body. He lived. I said one prayer was for him. And as it turned out, he became a a great ambassador. Turned out to be a great friend, and is actually back in the Pentagon to this day, just steps away from his old office as a civilian, went went back on a presidential appointment. Michael Hingson 36:09 So, you mentioned the general a while ago. Was did he survive? Bob Ellis 36:15 No, he was the he was the highest ranking person that we lost in in the entire encounter, and it was the entire office was just instantly vaporized. So he did not survive. Michael Hingson 36:33 Well, so you heard the engines revving up, and you went after you heard the explosion and so on. You went over to see what was going on, and then what did you do? Because it certainly had to be a major surprise and a shock by any standard. Bob Ellis 36:49 Yeah, I went that side of the building, saw the hole in the building, kind of convinced myself it was a cruise missile, but I never heard such a loud engine noise. As it turned out, it was it was two big engines off of a 757 200, and so I immediately tried to figure out you know what can I do? What should I do? Should I even be here? And that's when I saw the colonel coming out of the building, and I was able to walk with him and four others over to the the road, the Washington Boulevard that goes around the Pentagon, and and I sat down on the telephone pole, a light pole that the airplane hit going in. Now I'm a pilot, and and I have to tell you to take an airplane going at Mach point eight seven, and hit a target, hit the building, and not hitting the ground was just absolutely amazing to me. So as they got the colonel into an SUV and and and got him out of the the scene, I sat there. Just it was almost like a movie I was watching. The triage was being set up. The Pentagon was burning. The emergency services units were starting to show up, and we had very intermittent phone capability. And I had I had a a friend, my my the commander that I worked for in Dallas at the time. This secretary's husband was a bodyguard for Secretary Rumsfeld, and and Secretary Rumsfeld was actually carrying litter patients, carrying people out of the debris area and out of the offices. He was actually helping people, and he he realized that something needed to be done. So he gave Jerry a note, a piece of paper. We called them snowflakes, but it was a tablet, and he had listed what needed to be done and what needed to be done now. And Jerry found me sitting over there and gave me that that piece of paper, and it had everything listed on it. He wanted a a tactical field operation in place. He wanted it now, not yesterday. He wanted something in the interim, and it was to provide emergency relief supplies. So I I sat down on that telephone pole and I called our our local dist not local our largest distribution center in the world was down in Newport News, and I got the director on the phone and I said, I have an official order from you coming from the Secretary of Defense, and and don't override, don't just just follow my instructions until we can get to the commander at AFIS headquarters, and so I gave him the list. I just gave him the full list of things that we needed to get rolling, and I called another gentleman that was just across the river, the American Logistics Association, which owned all of the brokers and manufacturers, and I gave him a list of stuff that we needed now, like Gatorade boots. the The surface was over 2000 degrees, and the emergency service boots were melting almost upon contact. So I had I had 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of dollars of equipment. And supplies coming in, and we set up the USO tent, put everything in the USO tent. We raided all the stores in the in the Washington D.C. area. I was able to contact the region manager, and I told him, you know, what we needed to take it off the shelf, put it in the back seat of the cars, don't account for it, and get it to me. And that's what we did the entire first night was setting up the USO trailer, and the next morning I had two tactical field tractor trailers coming up the ramp just as the sun was coming up, and they were loaded with supplies, and that's what stayed in place for the next two months. Over $2 million worth of merchandise, emergency recovery type merchandise, everything from linens to the towels to eye wash, and and and we had to actually have some special boots made out of leather for the dogs because the dogs' feet were so it was it was quite an operation. We ended up well running within within 24 hours of the attack, Michael Hingson 41:04 why is it that you are able to stay pretty focused through all of this? Bob Ellis 41:08 I you know I you know I I've often asked that question. I wanted to go home. Alls I could think of is my kids, my wife. What what are they doing? What are they thinking? They're watching this on the news, and I had I had drifted over to which my car was very close, and it was taped off. The parking lot was taped off. It was a crime scene. There was no going anywhere. There was no transportation. If I wanted to walk 40 miles, I guess I could have, but because I couldn't go anywhere, I had to do something there on the scene, so that's that's that's what I did, and and it wasn't until the next day when the phone started working again, our two star in Dallas was able to get through to me on on my BlackBerry, and he wanted to know what the situation was, and and and I told him, and and he said, what what are we going to do? And I explained to him what we had done already, and he says, "How did you do all of that? I said, "I picked up the phone and I told him I was working for Secretary Rumsfeld, and this is the order. And and he says, "How are we going to pay for all of this? I said, "Sir, this is our finest hour. We're not. We're going to donate. These are all donating goods, and and it really was an interesting. I I just I just don't know. I was compelled. He he he ordered me on that second day to go home, and and I said I had no way to go home. And he said go to the motor pool. I'm going to call the motor pool. He had been the commander of the Air Force One Squadron, so he had a lot of connections in Washington, and he he got me a car, and I went home long enough to change clothes and and and to come back out. So it was it was just out of adrenaline, I think. Somebody had to do something, and and everything that I've told you here today is not written anywhere in history. I own every bit of what happened in in in that story, other than some of the people that were working there. Michael Hingson 43:07 What phone did you use that first day? You said you're you're it was the second day or the next day that you're phoned. So how were you able to communicate? Bob Ellis 43:17 We had Blackberries, and and until the networks got completely overrun, we were able to use it. And and so by the second third day, we we had pretty consistent communication, because the the the commander called me back that same morning, and and he said, you know, he said, how come you haven't been home? And I explained to him, and he says, "Will you do me one favor? And I said, "I would. He said, "Will you go back into the building? Said, "Sir, the building's on fire. He says, "Well, well, you get in the front, and I'm looking at it. He was looking at it on television, and the military clothing store was in the very front, within 100 feet, probably of that door that I went out of. And he says, "Would you see if our people survive, and if the store itself survived? It was sitting near the the area. I went in the store. I went into the building, into the burning building, and was able to look in the door, and I could see that the the room was full of smoke, and the door was locked. So I told him I would assume that our people made it out, alive and okay. And they say that was a, and they did, and they absolutely did. And in fact, everybody that that that that had any kind of supervisory capability around the Beltway, they volunteered to come over and work for me and and operating that facility for 2024 hours a day, seven days a week. Wow! So and not and not to shorten the the question, I wasn't there, but because of what I was doing in the in the Pentagon, my old homestead was at Fort Hamilton. Fort Hamilton picked up the same thing and went over to the Trade Center area, and they gave them a place to put a mobile. Food truck, and they brought supplies in and pretty much supported the firefighters and the and the and the police there. So so we had quite an operation going for a long time. Michael Hingson 45:11 Yeah, and and needed to, but it was interesting and commendable that in both places people were able to focus, and were able to carry out missions. I know at the World Trade Center when the two towers collapsed. Of course, it was it was unexpected, but we know now, of course, why they collapsed. It wasn't that the planes hit; it's that they were they were full of what 36,000 pounds of jet fuel each, and that exploding jet fuel is what damaged the infrastructure of the buildings to cause them to be able to collapse. But as well as at the Pentagon, but very quickly people were able to start to move and deal with issues and put procedures in place that were able to, I'm sure, keep more people from perishing and keep kept more people being able to focus throughout the whole the whole sequence of events. It it certainly was very scary, but it is something that that people like you were able to do. I know for me, the reason I was able to focus was because I had learned what to do in an emergency at the World Trade Center. I spent time with people and I learned how the whole building was structured, so I knew when the building tipped, why it tipped, and and things like that. You Bob Ellis 46:40 felt it. You you felt it. Michael Hingson 46:43 Oh yeah. Oh my god. We moved probably at least 20 feet, and then it came back, and oh my Speaker 2 46:48 god, it Michael Hingson 46:48 got vertical again. It got vertical again, and then a few seconds later, it dropped about six feet because the expansion joints went back to their normal configuration. But Bob Ellis 46:59 we uh we we knew from 937 till about 5o'clock that evening there would be no more survivors. It was over, and and and the dogs were getting depressed because they were they were they were not cadaver dogs. They were recovery dogs, and they were used to fight. And we we actually had ceremonies for the dogs every day, where we sewed flags onto their collars, and they had special water and special food. So they played a big, big role in morale, mine especially. Michael Hingson 47:33 And at the same time, I know people had to do drills to keep the dogs focused because they weren't able to find people, as you said, so they had to do things to give them something to find to keep them happy, which was was so important. Bob Ellis 47:50 Yeah, that we had two two tractor trailers lined up. It was just just two 300 feet from where you went into the damaged area of the Pentagon, and those dogs and their handlers would get up underneath those trailers and sleep, and they would play with the dogs. We actually had some carpets brought out, tarps brought out, and that's kind of where that was kind of their headquarters during 911. We had to make it up as we went along, and and the other interesting part of this story is in 1972 at the at the refugee camp, I was sleeping in the back of a van because there was just no way to go home. It was too it was too far to drive home to turn around and come back at 8o'clock the next morning, and I heard somebody knocking at the door, and and and I and I opened up the door, and it was a military colonel in uniform, and there was a civilian standing there with him. And he says, "Are you part of this operation? And I said, "Yes, sir, I am. He said, "Who are you with? And I said, "The Army Air Force Exchange Service. And and he says, "You're not provided any other facilities. This, I said, that was my choice. And as it turned out, I was speaking to Secretary Rumsfeld during his first administration as Secretary of Defense, and it was interesting that when he found out that what I did in in that program, I won the Indo Indo China Award for service, and then of course you you move ahead to to 2001, and we we knew each other. I had briefed him several times, and we we knew each other in the Pentagon. And that day, he knew that I would know what to do for the support role, and that's why he sent the letter up. And as it turned out, when he retired and and left the Pentagon, he was on a book tour, and and the the general secretary and myself got an invite to come to the book tour with him and and have lunch with him. And he handed me a book and he said, "I want you to have this, but I don't want you to open it up until you, Bob. I don't want you to open it up till you get home. I don't want you to give it to your wife. And and it was like this. Sure, I'm not not a problem, and so I got I got home. You know, this is this is 10 years later, and handed the book to her, and I said, "Open it up. I'm not wasn't allowed, and there's a nice thank you page on the front from Secretary Rums for allowing him to use me on 9/11, and you just you just that's the best reward that I could have ever ever expected. A guy that I just idolized to do that. Michael Hingson 50:26 When you got home, so you weren't able to talk to your wife before you got home, or did you ever get communication so you could call her? Bob Ellis 50:33 No, I didn't. I when I finally got the phone back up and running and got in the car. I had lost the battery, so I said, "I'm gonna be home in in an hour. I'll just be there. But General Wax called up, and she answered the phone. She went. She went sometime during that day and pulled the kids out of the private school, brought them home. She could see my car. It was a yellow SUV, and she could see it in the South parking lot in the news choppers going around. She said that was my car where my spot was, and General Wax got her on the phone and she and and she answered the phone and he said this is C J Wax and she thought that was the call. She thought that was it, and she alls I could do was drop to my knees and and and C J said and it's it's okay. I've ordered him to come home. He's all right. He's running. He's running a a program for us for for recovery. And if he's not there, he should be there shortly. And then by the time I got there, I got to the front step. I'm asking the question about the World Trade Center, how they got the fire out, and I was ordered that I could not go in the house because I smelled like smoke. So, so two minutes before that, I was the most important person in the world, and and then all of a sudden, I was I was back to Bob, and I wasn't going to wear that that suit in the house to to smoke it. So anyway, that's that's how she found out. He he called her up. I asked him. I think I asked him if he would get in touch with her at our last conversation, and he did. Michael Hingson 52:06 Soon after both towers collapsed, like a minute or so later, I called and got through to my wife Karen. I had talked with her before we left our office, and then when we got downstairs, I couldn't get through to her because the circuits were busy, and it was obvious that everyone we learned later was saying goodbye to loved ones, and so the circuits were busy. So after both towers collapsed, I was able to get through to her, and as I tell people, there were tears on both sides of the phone at the when that conversation started, but she was the first one who told us how two aircraft had been crashed into the World Trade Center towers, one to the Pentagon, and at that time, the fourth one was apparently still missing over Pennsylvania, and of course, then it crashed at Shanksville. Bob Ellis 52:52 I love it. Michael Hingson 52:54 Yeah, but we, you know, we talked, so she knew I was okay. Then a friend of ours, Tom Painter, who had been a friend of Karen's at high school out in California, but Tom, over the years, had ended up moving to New Jersey. He came down to stay with her, not knowing until he arrived whether I was in the office that day or out with a customer or what was going on. And of course, then she told him, and so he drove her to the train station to pick me up. When, when I got back out to Westfield, we went home. And you talk about with with dogs. We got in the house, and I took Roselle's harness off because I was going to take her out, and she would have none of it. She ran off, grabbed her favorite tug bone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linny, and I talked to the veterinarians at Guide Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael the next day, and they said, "Did anything threaten her? And I said, "No, not directly. And they said, "That's why she ran off because it was over. Nothing threatened her. Bob Ellis 53:58 Comfortable. Michael Hingson 53:59 She, they don't. Dogs don't do what if like we do, and so she was comfortable. She was happy. She wanted to play, and then then she did go out. But by the same token, the the whole point was that she was able to deal with with all of it and was able to to focus. Then we got her outside and and came back in, and she ate and and all that. But the the the thing is that she focused all day, and and she did a a wonderful job. And the reason that she focused and did so well was mainly because I worked at keeping her focus by telling her every chance I got. You're a good girl. What a good dog! Good dog. You're doing a great job. Keep going. I did that all the way down the stairs in the World Trade Center, and I was very deliberate about that because I knew she had to sense the fear and what was going on, and I wanted her to know that I was okay and I was going to be there for. Her, which is of course what teamwork and support is all about. You understand that very well. You you proved it in so many ways. I kept working with Roselle and kept her focused, and you know it all it all really went well. I still think one of the most relevant things for me in the World Trade Center. I went down the stairs with a guy named David Frank. David was from our corporate office in California, and David and I were going to be conducting sales seminars that day, teaching some resellers how to sell our products. And we got down to about the 50th floor, so David was there to talk about the the pricing and so on. I was going to do the majority of the presentation because I was going to be their technical contact, anyway, and we got to about the 50th floor, going down, and suddenly David said, "Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And as I tell people, since I got a teaching credential, I had learned all about the secrets of how to yell at students. So I just said, "Stop it, David. If Roselle and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he then immediately said that I brought him out of his spunk, and he told me that later as well. But what he told me was that he wanted to walk a floor below me on the stairs and shout up to me everything that he was seeing. He had to take his mind off of what was going on, and so he asked if I cared, and I said, "No, go ahead. That's what you need to do. That's fine. So I got like down to the 48th floor, and he yelled, "47th floor, Mike. All's clear here. Going on down. So we went down several floors that way. Eventually, I got to 45, and he was 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is not stopping. And the reason I mention it is because I think what David did is one of the unsung things that is so important from September 11th. He kept shouting up to me everything that he saw, but the reality is, anyone in the sound of his voice heard that there was someone who was okay going down the stairs, and he had to keep panic out of people's senses for so many individuals, because they just heard him, Mike, 43rd floor, all's good here. Going on down the stairs, all the way down the stairs. He had to have been able to keep so many people focused because he was able to keep his mind off of what was going on by shouting to me, and I think that that's so important, and so I'm. I always tell that story. I've been telling it for many years now because I want people to know what he did to keep so many people focused going down the stairs, and he had to have done that. Bob Ellis 57:31 Well, you know, I have. That's that's the first I've heard that, and and and and I read everything that I followed your story very closely, as well as the colonel who I was so close to, but there there are a couple of stories that are just never mentioned, not talked about, and one of them where we had to do every day. There was an update that the military gave the families an update as to what is happening, what was found, what was recovered, what to expect, and they would bring the kids in to listen to these brutal military briefings. I mean, just you know, these were these were soldiers, these were these were combat folks, and this is the way they briefed. And the therapy dogs were brought in, and there wasn't but about a dozen of them, and I will never forget not only the kids on the floor with the arms around those dogs, but some of the adults were as well. And I thought, what what a moment! That was the most touching moment of my entire life witnessing that. I mean, I could have done without it, but it was it was a very special moment. And then the the other thing that the world doesn't know about is on the second day, I got a I got a phone call from Secretary Rumsfeld's office that the VA was completely out of coffin flags. We had nothing in inventory to to cover the remains or the caskets for burial, and what could I do? And and right right from the Pentagon parking lot, I I called one of the buyers that bought American flags in Dallas, and then I asked her who do you get flags from, and she says it's American Flag Company. I'll give them credit for that, and and I said you need you need to get their entire inventory. We need to get it flown in, whatever expenses cover it, and get them here. The Pentagon doesn't have them, and New York doesn't have them. And those flags came in. They were they were there about that midnight that that that night. Now boxed up, thrown in the bag box, whatever tape they were bound, but everybody that came out later, you know, the recoveries as we got deeper into the debris, that had a had a flag that that came that came from us in the as well as at the Pentagon, and they put two very big special flags in there. I mean, like you see flying over a car dealer. And they hung that on the side of the Pentagon. And if you look at any of the any of the news willers of that time, it was on day two that flag was hanging that that came in with the rest of the other flags. So it was it was quite impressive. You never know what the next moment was going to bring you on you know from my side and and and can I meet the challenge? That was what I constantly worry about. How could I let any of this down? And I've got to do something. And and we were making it up as we went along. Michael Hingson 1:00:33 Yeah, that's all you could do. And so when I go back to Bob Ellis 1:00:37 to to this to this day, you know, we go back. They've got 184 markers. I don't know how many people attend it, but it's it's right in that zone, right outside the building, in that grassy area where they they they've made that memorial. And 184 people, to include I think two infants, are are memorialized there forever, which is very touching. It was a that was a hard place to go back to. Still was New York City when I went to it because I'd never I had never been 20 years 20 years yet 18 years before I ever went to to New York City to see the recovery there. I've never I've not been to the to the to the Pennsylvania field. I plan to go. I want to go. Just hadn't been convenient to get there, but but if I do that, I will have seen all all the sites. Michael Hingson 1:01:26 Yeah, I haven't been to Pennsylvania either. In 2017, I did make it to the World Trade Center Museum. In well, so we moved out of Westfield, and I moved back to California in late January, beginning of February of 2002, to work for Guide Dogs for the Blind and and speak from there. And traveled around and speak. Karen was there for a couple more months selling our home, and then she came out. But in May of 2002, Roselle was going to be honored by Hart's Mountain, the pet food and pet supply company. So, so we went back to New York, and while we were there, I met one of the police officers with with one of the service with one of the rescue dogs that that had been around the World Trade Center, and he arranged for us to get in a vehicle and drive down into the pit that was where the World Trade Center was, and they had built an artificial, well, a temporary road, and they were bringing things up, but we got to go down to what would have been the seventh sublevel, the bottom of the tower, and it was just a for me just imagining it standing in that dirt area in a hole seven stories deep and remembering what what it was like, and then in 2017 I went to the World Trade Center Museum and got to spend a little bit of time there, and of course everything had been rebuilt. The reflecting pool was there, and so on. But it was nothing like what I remembered from having been in the World Trade Center, and I walked around with someone who was able to be aware and describe what was where we were and what was above us, or what part of the building we were in as we walked through the complex. But of course, it was totally different. So it was it was such a strange feeling to experience all of that. But we did it, you know. And so now I've been to the museum, and actually there is a there's an animal exhibit in the basement, and Roselle's collar is is part of that exhibit. We donated that to oh Bob Ellis 1:03:50 really, oh really, oh God, I I was I was thinking that when I asked you that question earlier today, and I was thinking about that that has got to be remarkable, you know that that that's what touched me so much at the period. That the fact that the two of you were such a team, and I read everything that newspapers printed and watched. I guess there was some there was some CBS specials and so forth too, where you were interviewed, and it was it was just it was just absolutely amazing. Michael Hingson 1:04:21 Well, it is. you know, it is a an awe-inspiring sort of thing. And you know, people always say, you know, don't you feel guilty about surviving when so many people didn't? And and I said, no, I I didn't have any control over that. But what I do have control over is having been a survivor. What am I going to do about it? It's my responsibility to decide how I'm going to deal with moving forward after something like that. And of course, the opportunity opened to travel and speak, and so I've been doing it ever since. And I believe my job is. Is to educate people about what happened on September 11th, and let them know t

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Episode 473 – Unstoppable 25 Years After 9/11: Fear, Preparation and Leadership with Michelle Abraham

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 8, 2026 51:16

Twenty-five years after September 11, I still believe that day has important lessons to teach us about fear, preparation, and leadership. This time, Michelle Abraham from AmplifYou takes over the hosting seat and interviews me about my experience escaping the World Trade Center with my guide dog, Roselle. We talk about why knowing the building and its emergency procedures mattered, how I worked to keep fear from taking control, and why focusing on what I could control helped me keep moving. I also share how September 11 changed the direction of my life, led me into professional speaking, and helped shape the Unstoppable Mindset philosophy I continue to share today. Highlights: 02:30 – The ordinary morning that became September 11. 08:04 – How preparation shaped Michael's response when the tower was hit. 18:34 – How Michael and David helped keep panic from taking over. 27:15 – Why trusting Roselle mattered during the collapse. 31:38 – The lesson of focusing only on what you can control. 41:52 – How September 11 helped shape the Unstoppable Mindset philosophy. About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:00 Everyone, I am Michael Hingson, the host of Unstoppable Mindset. You've heard my voice for the last 471 episodes, but I'm calling you all out today and asking you to listen to this because we're going to make a special announcement now regarding the next four episodes, starting with 472. We're going to help commemorate the historic events of September 11, 2001. Yes, they're definitely historic, although not necessarily the most positive things that have ever happened. But as many of you may know, I was in the World Trade Center working on September 11, 2001, on the 78th floor of Tower One, and escaped with my guide dog. I've delivered a speech about that, which we put in the first episode of this podcast series back in August of 2021. But this Friday, episode 472 is going to have an updated speech that I delivered just a few years ago at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. That festival is a yearly event celebrating different kinds of things that have happened in American history, and I was invited to come and speak, which I did. I'm going to put that speech up for you as episode 472. I think you'll find it enlightening. It'll teach you something about blindness and blind people. It'll tell you my story, and it'll give you some inspiration that I hope you will find helpful. Next Tuesday, september 8, Michelle Abraham is going to interview me. Michelle is with Amplify You, the company that does all of our back office stuff and helps me with the editing and other things regarding the podcast. Michelle owns her own podcast, and she is going to interview me about September 11th and other kinds of things relating to what I've learned and things that have happened over the past 25 years. She's also going to be putting this up on her podcast Amplify You, so you can find us in a lot of different places. On September 11th, I'm going to chat with Bob Ellis. Bob was in the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, and had literally just walked out the door of the Pentagon when the plane crashed into the Pentagon and did the things and the damage that it did, and of course generated all the things that occurred at the Pentagon. On the 15th of September, I'm going to come back and have a conversation with all of you about lessons that I've learned over the past 25 years, and just reminisce a little bit about all of that. While the podcast is occurring on September 11th, I will be actually in Kilgore, Texas, doing a speech about September 11th. So lots of things going on, I hope you listen to these episodes. I hope that you'll tell everyone that you can about them. I really enjoy all of the support that you've given us over the years, and we're going to continue to do things with Unstoppable Mindset. And of course, as always, if you'd like to come on or know anyone who would, please let us know. We're always looking for guests. Thanks very much. We'll see you on Friday with the first of these four episodes. What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. When and today is a little bit different than what we normally do because I'm going to be the guest on the podcast, Michelle Abraham from Amplify You, who is also putting this particular podcast episode on her podcast, but Michelle is going to mainly be interviewing me. As many of you should know, this is the 25th commemoration or remembrance of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, and we thought it would be very relevant to to spend some time on a few podcast episodes talking about that a little bit. Michael Hingson 04:46 For those of you that listened to the last episode before this one, you heard me deliver my speech talking about what happened to me on september 11. I used. A speech that we we delivered just a couple of years ago. So it's a little bit different than the one that, if you listen to the initial episodes of Unstoppable Mindset, you heard way back 472, 473 episodes ago. But this one still tells the the same story, which is which is kind of cool, and so we're going to talk about that, and we'll talk about our next episode, which will be delivered on September 11th, and that one will be a conversation between me and Bob Ellis, who was in the Pentagon on September 11th, and so that'll be a little bit fun, and then we'll talk about some other stuff as well. But I'm going to turn this over to Michelle because she's the the interviewer, the the boss, and I'm just a guest today. So hi, Michelle. Amplifyou 05:50 Hey, Michael. Well, thanks for being a guest on your own show today for us. It's great to be here with you, and we've been with you all along the Instoppable Mindset Show. It's been really fun to work with you on this show, and so I know we've had we've recorded episodes around your story, and our listeners would have just listening to your keynote. But I would like to tap into Michael 25 years later. When you think back of the morning of September 11, 2001, what comes to your mind? It Michael Hingson 06:23 was a typical day. We we did have a thunderstorm about 1230 that morning, and Roselle, my fifth guide dog, who was my guide dog at the time, was afraid of thunder. She had developed this phobia. The theory, basically, about dogs being afraid of thunder is it's not just the thunder sounds, but it's also the fact that the dogs have a static charge that builds up on their fur, and that gives them a tingly and kind of a strange feeling, and between that and the thunder, they learn to equate the two, and that just causes a lot of angst. And in Roselle's case, at 1230 in the morning, we weren't even hearing a thunderstorm, but she started getting really nervous, and so I took her down to my office. And as I was going downstairs, we started hearing thunder, and the storm actually came right over our house. So I love to say God clearly has a sense of humor of some sort because the thunder-I had never heard thunder like I heard That morning, that is, literally, it came right over our house, so we heard what were explosion sounds. It was it was different than I had ever heard before, but I didn't have any message that said you shouldn't go into the World Trade Center or go to work that day, and I had been planning on going to work that day because we were going to be conducting some sales training seminars, teaching about 50 people from a bunch of resellers under the auspices of Ingram Micro, our major distributor. We were going to be teaching them how to sell our products, so I was going to be there. David Frank, a colleague from our corporate office, was going to be there. He was flying. He flew in to deal with the pricing and distribution models that the Ingram Micro salespeople and resellers would be dealing with, but I was going to be doing the majority of the seminar. Well, anyway, at 1230, I took Roselle down and we stayed there in my office at home until 2o'clock, and then the thunderstorm had passed away and Roselle had calmed down. So we went back up and got to sleep, and woke up at five in the morning, which is what I originally planned on doing. I'd actually planned on going in a little bit earlier than usual, just to be able to spend more time preparing. And I got to the New Jersey train station in Westfield, the New Jersey Transit train station, at somewhere around 615, and I had been planning on taking a 6:18 train into the city. And at about 6:20 or 6:21, train having not arrived, an announcement came over the PA system that there was a problem with the train, and another train would be coming. The next train would be there in a little bit, and we could get on it, and and all that. The day was a calm day. It was a nice autumn day. was great. No indication of of anything to worry about. And I didn't read anything into trains not working, much less the thunderstorm before. So when the train finally arrived, I got on the train and we went into Newark. Then I caught the train that takes me directly to the World Trade Center. It's called Path Train. Path stands for Port Authority Trans Hudson, and that train went straight in from Newark Penn Station with the well to the World Trade Center, and so I got there. And by the time all of a sudden done, I got there at the normal time I would get there rather than getting there 20 or 25 minutes earlier. Go figure, but I went upstairs and I went to the office and there was a person standing outside the door with a big cart. We had ordered breakfast for all the early arrivals, and so I took him in and showed him where to set up, and then I went in. And got my laptop projector and other things that I needed to be able to set up to do the presentations, and went in and set all that up. And then David Frank, my colleague from our corporate office, got there about 8o'clock and helped do the final things, like making sure the projector was totally appropriately aimed. His aim is better than than mine was, anyway. Michael Hingson 10:21 So again, everything was proceeding just as we expected it to do. David came with some early arrivals from Ingram Micro, and we put them in the in the conference room where we were going to be doing the presentations, and the the cart was all set up so they could have breakfast. As I love to tell people, best ham and cheese croissants in the city-they're still good, as far as I remember-but all was was going well, and so we we were getting prepared. And the last thing we had to do before the seminars were to start was to create a list of all the people who would be attending that day and put it on letterhead. We had a spreadsheet with all the names, but we had to put it on letterhead and then fax the list on letterhead to the Port Authority security people so that they would have a list that they would recognize was legitimate. And then when people came into the World Trade Center, they'd go up to the security counter, they'd show their ID, and their names would be compared with a list, and if their name was on the list, then they would just be given a badge with a a barcode where they could go to the appropriate elevator and come up to our floor. So that was kind of the last thing we had to do before the seminars were to start. Amplifyou 11:34 Kind of sounds like business as a norm and business as usual kind of morning for you. It Michael Hingson 11:40 was. It was a total business as usual morning, by every stretch of the imagination. No clue about anything else. Amplifyou 11:48 So, did you guys begun your seminar when the the troy towers were hit? Michael Hingson 11:55 No, the seminar was supposed to start at 9o'clock, and literally, I was reaching for letterhead to print the list at about 845, 846. When suddenly we heard a muffled kind of explosion, the building sort of shuddered. And then, if you imagine my hand as the tower, literally as I'm tipping my hand towards the camera, that's exactly what the tower did. It started tipping and tipping and tipping, and we moved maybe about 2025 feet before the building stopped. Now the thing is that I had spent time learning all I could know about the World Trade Center, learning what to do in an emergency, learning what the fire department did, learning what the police would do, learning where the emergency exits were, learning about all the emergency evacuation procedures, and the reason that I learned all of that was I had opened this office for Quantum Corporation, and I was the Mid-Atlantic region sales manager. I was the leader. I was going to be the person who would be running the office, and I knew that I needed to do what any other leader would do difference being I didn't see stuff, so I needed to learn rather than rely on signs and other things that most sighted people would do. I actually had to learn everything to be able to function. But the difference is that by doing that, what I didn't really realize was I was creating a mindset that says you know what's going on, you know what to do. I knew why the building tipped because tall buildings like that are built with expansion joints. They're made to be buffeted in windstorms, and I had felt that happen many times at the World Trade Center. If there were a wind, we could feel it sort of shake a little bit. But who would have ever thought that somebody would fly into the building with a plane load of jet fuel, 36,000 pounds of jet fuel? But nevertheless, I knew all that I could learn about everything. I learned where different offices and built and and organizations were in the World Trade Center. I had explored the kiosks on the first floor and the shopping mall, so I knew where all the phone kiosks were and where other things were. I knew where the restaurants were, so that if we ever had guests in and we were doing demonstrations and then we were going to be negotiating contracts, we decided to take a break for lunch. I could say, "What kind of lunch do you want? "Oh, you want a deli sandwich? There's this great restaurant downstairs called Fine and Shapiro. Let me take you there, and I would take them. I would lead the way because I couldn't very well say, "Oh, I don't know how to get anywhere. I'm blind. Someone's going to have to lead me. How's that going to work a couple of hours later if we're negotiating multi-million dollar contracts? I needed to literally work, and I don't mean this in a negative way, but from a position of strength. I needed to know all of this in order to be able to do my job as the appropriate leader of the office, and so I learned all of that and put all of that together for whatever was going. On in the World Trade Center at any given time, and so when the building was struck and and the building was tipping, I was standing in my doorway, the doorway between my office and the other parts of of our facility, and the building tipped. David was holding on to my desk as it was tipping. Roselle was asleep under my desk, and finally, David and I were speculating about what was going on. He thought maybe it was an earthquake, and I said no because the building's not shaking around; it's going in one direction. I thought maybe it was just some sort of an explosion, which in a sense it was. But he said it didn't sound like it, and it didn't. But the issue was that we were 18 floors on average below where the tower was hit and on the other side of the building, but that was a calculation that came later. But the bottom line is that the building tipped and then it stopped, and it came back the other way and got vertical again. Amplifyou 15:54 That's incredible! Wow. Michael Hingson 15:56 And as soon as it got vertical, I went back into my office. I met Roselle coming out from under my desk. I took her leash. I told her to heal, which meant to come around on my left side, which she did. She sat down, and about that time, the building dropped straight down about six feet. Amplifyou 16:10 Wow! Michael Hingson 16:10 Now, the reason it dropped is because tall buildings like that are constructed with expansion joints, which is why that it tipped in the first place, and the building didn't break off, but then when it got to be vertical again, after a few seconds, literally the expansion joints contracted and the building went back to its normal configuration, which is exactly what happened. Amplifyou 16:32 Gosh, interesting like technology that that's built in there. I know you you never really I would never known that. Had you not explain that in the story? That's very interesting. That expands like that, and then the six foot drop was then it contracting Michael Hingson 16:47 again. The expansion joints were going back to normal configuration. Amplifyou 16:50 Interesting. If Speaker 1 16:55 you enjoy unstoppable mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week. We've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Amplifyou 17:28 And so there's so then what happened? So take us to the next steps. Michael Hingson 17:32 So the building dropped about six feet, and then David turned from holding onto my desk and looked out the window, looking south toward Battery Park, and he started shouting, "Oh my God, Mike! There's fire and smoke above us! There are millions of pieces of burning paper falling outside our window! And I could hear stuff going by our window, and I was wondering what it was because normally the sound was sort of like what window washers would do if they were on their tracks washing windows, but that wasn't what was going on. It was debris falling, and David was describing it: millions of pieces of burning paper falling outside our window, and he said, "We got to get out of here right now. And I said, "Slow down, David. We'll get out, but we're not going to rush. No, we got to get out of here right now. Slow down, David. We'll get out. Don't worry about it. And finally, I I said several times, "Slow down. He kept saying we got to get out of here right now, and then he used what I call the big line: "You don't understand. You can't see it. Well, first of all, I knew everything that David was seeing and saying because he was telling me about it. So I knew we had millions of pieces of burning paper. Clearly, he said, "There's fire and smoke above us, so the building's on fire. I had all that information, but the problem was that it wasn't what I wasn't seeing that was the issue; it was what David wasn't seeing. David wasn't seeing that sitting next to me was my guide dog Roselle, yawning and wagging her tail, going, "Who woke me up anyway? I was sleeping real good here, sports fans, and and Roselle was not reacting. I wasn't smelling anything that gave me an indication that we were in such peril that we had to run for our lives, and so I kept telling David to slow down. And finally, David did. He stopped. I said, "David, get our guests to the stairs. Do not let them take elevators, because I had learned, of course, that if the building's on fire anywhere, if fire gets into elevator shafts, then anybody in elevator cars is probably going to perish, which did happen. And so David took our guests out of our office, got them to the stairs, and I made it really clear: do not let them take elevators, because there could be fire in the elevator shafts. Well, he got them to the stairs, and then he came back. Meanwhile, I called my wife Karen to let her know that something had happened, or an explosion, or something. But we didn't know. People tell me all the time, even today. Well, of course you didn't know because you couldn't see it. You know, I think all these people who tell me I didn't know because I couldn't see it need to get a. The problem is they really don't know a whole lot about blind people. The airplane hit, on average, 18 floors above us. It hit between floors 93 and 99, so I just say 96, which is 18 floors above where we were in on the 78th floor. But it also hit on the other side of the building. It hit on the north side, and we were on the south side. The last time I checked, Superman and X-ray vision are fiction, and people can't really see through buildings, see through rebar and steel and concrete. The fact of the matter is that they no one knew what was going on. I didn't know, but other people did, and I'll prove that in a moment, but the fact of the matter is, you can't see through all that stuff. Blindness had nothing to do with it, but people keep saying, "Well, you didn't know because you couldn't see it. Well, yeah, well, we'll get to that. Anyway, David got our guest to the stairs. I called Karen. I told her that something had happened. We didn't know what. She wanted to know more, but there was nothing else I could tell her, and so we we parted. I just said, "I'll call you back as soon as I can, and by that, you know, the media hadn't even gotten the story yet. Michael Hingson 21:12 So I love to joke around and say that I beat Charlie Gibson in Good Morning America by eight minutes, but I still haven't gotten a Pulitzer Prize for it. But it's very disappointing. But anyway, so I disconnected with Karen. David came back. We swept the office. We went to the stairs, and we started down. Almost immediately, I began smelling an odor, and it was a familiar odor, but I couldn't quite place it. And it took me a while to realize I was smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. I did a lot of traveling for my company, and so I was very used to what was in airports and the smells and the odors. But it took me like four floors to figure out that I was smelling burning jet fuel. Other people were speculating, wondering what happened, why were we evacuating, what was the building doing, why did it shake, and all that. And then I observed that I was smelling burning jet fuel, and other people said, "You're right. That's burning jet fuel. We must have been hit by an airplane. But you see, we didn't know. We had no clue. Eyesight had nothing to do with it. The fact is that we only figured out we were hit by an airplane because the blind guy realized he was smelling burning jet fuel, and so anyway, we went down the stairs. A couple of burn victims passed us along the way, and a woman, when we got down about 10 floors, stopped and she said, "I can't go on, and we're not going to make it out of here. And I literally just stopped and turned around and gave her a hug right there on the stairs. Roselle gave her some kisses, and other people stopped and joined us. And we all said, "Come on, you can keep going. You can do it. Let's go. And she was able to keep going as we went down the stairs. But we knew instinctively we had to make sure that panic didn't ensue on the stairs. Amplifyou 22:56 Right. Michael Hingson 22:57 We got to about the 50th floor, and then David suddenly said, and he had been getting quieter, but suddenly he said, "Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And I said, in my best sharp voice, "Stop it, David. If Roselle and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he told me that that brought him out of the funk that he was singing into. And he said, "I want to walk a floor below you, if it's okay, and I'll tell you whatever I see on the stairs. But I got to do something to get my mind off of worrying about all this stuff. Is that okay? And I said, sure. If that's what you need to do, go ahead. Did it really matter? Well, you know, it did to David, and that's all that really counted. But anyway, David walked a floor below us, and so when I got to the 48th floor, for example, I heard, "Hey, Mike, I'm on the 47th floor. All's good here. Going on down the stairs. We went down, and finally I got to the 45th floor. And David said, '44th floor is where I am. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is. Not stopping. Going on down the stairs, and he did that all the way down the stairs. Why is that important? And why do I even mention it? Because we all did everything we could to keep panic from taking over on the stairs, and by definition, because David was just speaking up, "Hey, Mike, 42nd floor, all's good here, and just shouting up to me what he saw on the stairs and sounding confident. By definition, anyone who was in the sound within the sound of his voice heard someone who was sounding okay and just able to go down the stairs and wasn't seeing any problem, and so they focused on him, and that certainly had to help keep panic from ensuing on the stairs as we went down, and it's so often not even mentioned, but David had to do that for maybe hundreds or 1000s of people who could hear him all the way up and down the stairwell, and I think that's just one of the most important things that I remember about the day that David had to, by definition, help keep panic from going on on the stairs. Now, meanwhile, I was up. Encouraging Roselle, what a good dog, good girl, Roselle. Keep going, let's go, good dog, doing that all the way down the stairs. And I've had people come up to me at speeches that I've given ever since. For example, one in Kansas City, and a woman came up afterward, and she said, "I came into the stairwell on the 54th floor just as you passed by, and I heard you praising your dog and encouraging your dog and sounding very confident, I and other people just followed you because you sounded really good and you didn't sound like you had a problem at all and weren't afraid. We just followed you, so you know that's why I also know that what David was doing was so important because people focused on his voice. Amplifyou 25:42 How fascinating! Someone that was right behind you that day in the stairwell, too. Michael Hingson 25:46 Yeah, yeah. So we continued down. We got to the 30th floor, and that's where we met firefighters coming up. They wanted to help me go down the stairs, and I didn't want their help. I didn't need their help, first of all, but I didn't want their help because that would have meant we were always walking at least two abreast, and they were going to grab my arm and try to lift me as we were going downstairs and do other things that sighted people think you got to do if you're helping a quote a blind person go down the stairs. But there was a more important reason that I didn't want their help, and you know when the firefighter, the first guy, came up and he said, "We're going to send somebody with you. I kept saying, "No, don't do that. We don't need that. What I knew because of all that I had learned was that they were a team. They had to carry all their equipment up the stairs with them. Why? Where would you store it? Let's say you decided to store it on the 34th floor, and fire broke out on the 33rd floor. You'd never get to the equipment. They had to carry all their equipment up with them. They were a team, all 50 of those firefighters, and so I was not about to want to break up the team when, especially, I didn't need it anyway. And I I worked at getting them finally to focus, and I said, look, I got my guide dog here, and they started petting Roselle, and it wasn't the time to give them a lecture about don't pet a guide dog in harness. And by the way, don't pet a guide dog in harness. If you see a guide dog in harness, you can ask me if you can pet the dog, and if I have time, I will stop and I'll take the harness off because Roselle likes to relax, Alamo, my current guide dog, likes to relax. The dogs all love to relax, but if I don't have time, I'll say, "Look, we're kind of in a hurry, so sorry, but we just don't have time. But the firefighters were petting her, and it wasn't the time to give him a lecture about don't pet the guide dog and harness, and it wasn't the time to give him a lecture about don't worry about the blind guy just because he can't see and you can. The reality is that blindness isn't the problem; it's your attitudes about blindness that are more of the problem. But anyway, they finally agreed. When I finally said, "Look, I got my friend David over here who can see, and David and I are going down the stairs together, and they turn to David and they go, "You're with him. And David said, "Yeah, Lee Malone, he's fine. And mention all the hundreds Amplifyou 28:06 of people that are following you. Michael Hingson 28:08 Yeah, and and they all had to stop as we're talking to the firefighters. But anyway, so they eventually started going up the stairs, and I continued down. David reassumed his scouting position, and we followed David by a floor down the stairs, and and did what we needed to do, and then we we finally got to the first floor. Well, David did, and he said the water sprinklers are on. You're going to have to run through a curtain of water to get out of the stairwell, and the the reason there were sprinklers on is if there was fire in the stairwell, the water sprinklers would be keeping the fire from getting into the lobby. But if it were in the lobby, the sprinklers would be keeping the fire from getting into the stairwell. That's part of what was supposed to happen. Well, it it all worked perfectly. So David went through the curtain of water, and I got down to the first floor, and I took Roselle's harness and said forward and hop up and let's go. And we went through this curtain of water and came out the other side into the lobby of Tower One. There was a guy with a bullhorn going, "Go this way, no, no, don't go over that way, go this way, go to the central part of the building, don't go outside, no, no, don't go that way, go this way. And that was because that if they had gone outside, they would have been below where people were jumping, and you know who knows what else, so they didn't, and and they went to the central part of the building. We got out, and I was hearing the guy with the bullhorn. This guy comes up to David and me, and he said he's with the FBI, and he'll take us where we need to go. And I asked him what's going on. He said, "There's no time to tell you. I wish he had, but he didn't know me. He didn't know that information was what I really valued more than anything else, and I wasn't going to panic just because I heard information. But he took us through the complex and eventually up an escalator by the borders books, as far away from the towers as we could be, and then we got out. And as soon as we got out, David saw fire in Tower Two. We had no idea where that came from. We speculated that maybe our building, which had been tipping toward Tower Two, had its fire sort of jump across, maybe somehow. But we didn't know what was going on, and so we were told to leave the area, which we did. We went over to Broadway, which is again what we were told to do and told to get away from the complex, so we went over to Broadway and started walking north on Broadway. So as we were walking north, on my left side was the building, on my right side was Broadway. We're on the west side of Broadway as we're going north, and we passed several streets, and then after we passed all the well, we passed a number of streets, and we finally got to Vessi Street. And David said, "You know, we're very close to Tower Two. I want to take pictures of this fire I see in Tower Two. I said, "Okay. I took out my phone. I tried to call Karen. I couldn't get through. The circuits were busy, as we now know. Of course, people were saying goodbye to loved ones, but for me, I couldn't get through, so I put my phone away. And David was putting his camera away when a police officer yelled, "Get out of here! It's coming down now! And we heard this sound, as I describe it, as kind of a combination of a freight train and a waterfall. What we heard was Tower Two collapsing like 100 yards away from us. You could hear glass breaking and shattering, you could hear metal clattering, and then the white noise of Tower Two just collapsing straight down, which is exactly what it was supposed to do. David and everyone turned and ran. I lifted Roselle by the harness, turned her 180 degrees, and started running back the way I came. David was long gone. Michael Hingson 31:36 I got to the next street back that we had crossed a little while before, and that was Fulton Street. Turned right on Fulton to get more of a building between us and what was collapsing, and we ran about 25 yards and caught up to David. It turns out that we had gone the same way he went, but he had stopped realizing that he had left me and was going to come back and find me. But I found him first, and he apologized. I said, "Don't worry about it, David. Let's keep going. And we kept running. We got caught in all the dirt and the dust and the debris from Tower Two's collapse. As David said, he couldn't see his hand six inches in front of his nose. For my part, I couldn't. With every breath I took, I could feel debris going down my throat into my lungs and settling. It was crazy, and we ran, and eventually, I decided we got to get out of this. So I started telling Roselle right, right, giving her hand signals. I don't know whether she could hear me over the noise of the building collapsing, or whether she could see my hand signals. But I kept telling her to turn right because I wanted her to, because there was a building on my right. Now that we were going the other way, I wanted her to go into the nearest opening that she could find. As we ran, I suddenly heard an opening, and Roselle obviously knew what I wanted because she turned right. She took one step. She stopped. She wouldn't move. Come on, Roselle, keep going. She wouldn't move. Come on, Roselle, you can do it. Keep going. She wouldn't move, and I realized, wait a minute, she's a guide dog. She's doing what she's supposed to do. She stopped for a reason, which she had. I checked. I stuck out my foot, stuck a hand out along the wall, discovered we were at the top of a flight of stairs. Roselle had done her job perfectly. She stopped. So when I gave her the command to go forward, she went down the stairs, and we went down into what was the Fulton Street subway station, and we were there for about 15 minutes or so. Then a police officer found a bunch of us together and said, "The air is clear up above. You need to leave now. And didn't wait for a response; just turned, and we all followed him back to the stairwell, up the stairs, through the little arcade that we had we had passed through part way down the stairs before, up the rest of the stairs and got outside. David looked around and he said, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no Tower Two anymore. And I said, "What do you mean? He said, "All I see are pillars of smoke, hundreds of feet tall. There's no Tower Two. It's gone. Are you sure, David? "Yeah, it's gone. It's not here. We stood there for a moment, and then we continued to walk west on Fulton Street. And we walked for about 10 minutes, and then we were in this little plaza area when suddenly we heard that freight train waterfall sound again, and we figured it was probably our tower collapsing. David looked back and he saw another dust cloud coming our way, and in this plaza where we were, there was a small retaining wall, probably a planter or something, but anyway, there was a retaining wall. We got behind it, we ducked down, and we just waited till everything passed us by and stopped. And then we got up, and David looked around and he said, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no World Trade Center anymore. And I said, "What do you see? And he said, "All I see are fingers of fire and flames, hundreds of feet tall, and pillars of smoke. It's gone. The towers and everything are gone. And we stood there a moment, not able to fathom it. Then I tried to call Karen again, and this time I got through because all the circuits freed up from all the loved ones saying goodbye. Needless to say, and after, as I put it, tears on both sides of the phone line. Michael Hingson 34:59 Karen was finally the first one who told us how two aircraft had been crashed deliberately into the towers of the Pentagon, hijacked aircraft towers at the World Trade Center. That is, one into the Pentagon, and a fourth was still missing over Pennsylvania at that moment. And so that's kind of what happened. The rest of the day we spent getting up toward Midtown Manhattan, and eventually was able to get trains back to New Jersey and so on. And David walked up to where he was staying with his sister, who lived on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Amplifyou 35:30 What an experience, Sue! Thank you for going through that with us again. And you know, there's there's a lot of things that I want to well, there's something I want to ask you. It's like we often talk about preparation of that day, like all the things you did to prepare for what what you actually were able to do during that day. What mattered on that day from all that preparation? Michael Hingson 35:55 That I knew what to do in an emergency. Also, although I really started learning to verbalize it more later, what I learned was how to control the things that I could and not worry about everything else. We what if everything to death as human beings? Yeah. And we what? Well, what if what if you were in the build in the World Trade Center and it collapsed? Well, okay. What could I have done about that? So it's no sense worrying about it, because I, you know, I didn't have access to something to hold the building up, you know, and so many different things. Well, what if Roselle had panicked? Well, that's why I encouraged her and praised her so she wouldn't. But the bottom line is, I didn't have control over that, other than the fact that I encouraged her and and worked with her so well. Well, what if other people panicked on the stairs? I didn't have control over that, other than doing all I could to try to keep panic from happening. And you know, I and other people did a number of things like what David did to keep people from panicking on the stairs. But the bottom line is, there was no sense worrying about those things because we had no control over them. And when we got home that night, I took Roselle's harness off and I was going to take her outside. She ran off. She wouldn't. She wouldn't go outside right away. She grabbed her favorite tug botobone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linnie. And they were having a good old time just playing. When I talked to the veterinarians of Guide Dogs for the Blind the next day, I asked them, "What's it going to be like for Roselle going forward? And they asked, "Did Roselle have anything that specifically threatened her? And I said, "No, not really, because nothing hit her, nothing threatened her in any way, shape, or form, and the veterinarian who I spoke with said, "Well, there you are. She wasn't threatened. Dogs don't do what if about everything. They live in the moment. It was over for her. She wanted to play, and that's what she did, which was great anyway. But we what if everything to death, and we need to learn how to stop doing that and worry about just the 5% over which we really have control, and not worry about the rest. That's one of the lessons that I learned. I learned about don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can and leave the rest alone. I learned about what if you know and things like that. Amplifyou 38:18 You and Roselle really understood each other in those moments. So what she realized what her job was, and you you were a leader in keeping everyone else under under control from you know reacting. Did you ever? You seem to have been very positive right from the beginning. Were there other moments that you were not sure that you or guys were going to get out of there. Michael Hingson 38:44 No, and my response is there wasn't time to worry about that for me. I was focused on Roselle. I was focused on listening because if people started to panic, I wanted to deal with it. There was a time on the 37th floor where people just started not talking. They were getting very quiet, and I went, "Oh, they're going to be like David was, and so I said, "Hey, everybody, whether you can see me or not, my name is Mike, and I've got my guide dog Roselle here. I'm blind, but I don't want anybody to worry, because if the power and lights go out in the World Trade Center, we're offering a half-price special to get you out today only. You know, and and that's exactly what I wanted them to do was to laugh, and I got people to laugh, which, which I'm sure helped. But those are the kinds of things that that I could focus on dealing with. But I I didn't worry about what I couldn't control, even though that was sort of an instinctive thing. But the mindset kicked in. All the things that I had learned that led up to September 11th kicked in that day, that allowed me to be able to function and and also help other people, and that's the the important part about it is that they all did kick in the mindset kicked in and it all worked well. Amplifyou 39:54 You've told this story so many times. Has the meaning of the story ever changed for you over 25 years? Michael Hingson 40:00 No, I got to say that it hasn't. Well, in some, yeah, I guess in some senses it has. Maybe some of the reasoning has changed. For example, speaking today, I'm speaking to oftentimes a generation of people who have absolutely no memory of the World Trade Center because they weren't even born yet, or they were too young to remember it. Probably, if you're under 30 years old, you really don't have any memory of it. And if you're under 25, you weren't even born at the time. My job, I believe, and so I've expressed this more lately than I have in the past. But my job is to take people in as I speak to the building with me, and take them down the stairs. Take them through the experiences that I had and went through, and why I went through those experiences, and the lessons to be learned from those. And then bring them out when we get to the bottom and outside. Take them all the way through and out, so that they get the full sense of what I experienced. And I've had so many people tell me we were with you every step you took down the stairs. You tell the story so vividly and so well, and and you just you just had us with you all the way down the stairs, which is exactly what I wanted, because I want them to understand that in reality you can learn to deal with things that come along, there are going to be things that you can't deal with because you don't have the skill or whatever. But we all have a lot of skills that we don't think we do, and one of them is that we can learn to control fear. We can learn that fear is around us, but we don't have to let it overwhelm, blind, or paralyze us. We can learn to use fear in a very positive, constructive way to keep us focused and going down the stairs. Amplifyou 41:45 What made you to decide to keep using your experiences each other's? Michael Hingson 41:49 Well, after September 11th, we and and the media got the story, and then people started calling because we got very visible in the media, and people started calling and saying we'd like to hire you to come and talk to us about what we should learn from September 11th. Learn about teamwork. Learn about what happened that day. Learn the lessons of World Trade Center, and so I decided that I would would do that and teach people what they could remember and and take away from it, and people started calling and saying, "Gee, would you come and let us hire you to tell the lessons of September 11th? And by the beginning of 2002, I had so many of those kinds of requests that Karen and I decided that selling life and philosophy was a whole lot more fun than selling computer hardware and being a computer hardware sales manager, and so that's what I turned to doing full time, and learning to help people understand that the reality is that you are a lot better than you think you are, and you need to learn that. But you really can do in a more strong way what you think you can do than than a typical way. Amplifyou 43:02 That's what I was just going to ask you: is if September 11th changed the direction of your life, and it did, from the career you had into now being a professional speaker. Interesting. Michael Hingson 43:13 Oh, yeah, it's helped a lot. And you know, I I also there are other things that that helped me in terms of dealing with public speaking, I love to tell the story that when I was growing up, before I had access to braille, I had braille in kindergarten in Chicago, but then I didn't have braille in California until the fourth grade, and my parents helped me learn things, and I learned all the spelling words that you know you had every every week you had to learn words, and then on Friday you the teacher would tell you the words, and you had to write them down, and you change papers, and the teacher would write the words on the board. Except in my class, in my class the teacher didn't write the words on the board. The teacher would say, "Mike, you have to spell the words out loud for everybody. So I learned how not to fear crowds and learned that I could spell the words. I know one time I messed up a word, and I don't even remember what the word was, but I heard somebody go, "Uh-uh, and I and I went, "Oh, I must have got it wrong, and I figured it out, and then I spelled it right. But that that only happened one time that I can recall. But clearly, that helped me learn not to be afraid of audiences. And today, I don't even understand why people are afraid to speak publicly. The fact of the matter is, audiences don't come to hear you so they can joke at you, make fun of you, yell at you, and so on. They come because they value what you're you're going to talk with them about, and they want to hear it. They want you to be successful, and they'll help you be successful if you let them, Amplifyou 44:41 I think you were always destined to be a public speaker, but it seems like the September 11th really just the universe conspired to make that happen. Maybe sooner than it would have. Did you ever see yourself before that becoming a public speaker? Michael Hingson 44:57 I never thought of being a public speaker before that. Neither had I ever thought of being an author. I I was used to it because working at Quantum on any given day I could be speaking to anybody from the board of directors of a Wall Street firm to IT people to other management people and so on. So I got used to doing it, and I and I learned all about selling and being articulate in sales, so I kind of learned a lot about public speaking from that. But I never really thought I would just be speaking for a living. But given what happened on September 11th, and that I get the opportunity to talk with people and help them see that in reality, what happened on September 11th is a day of lessons that taught us, or can teach us about resilience, can teach us about dealing with things that we don't expect to happen, and that we can learn how to control fear and so on, rather than letting it overwhelm us. So it it is it's really been pretty good. Amplifyou 45:57 Yeah, and when you hear the phrase "unstoppable mindset, how much of that philosophy do you think was shaped on that day, september 11? Michael Hingson 46:05 Oh, I think a lot of it came from from that day and and beyond. You know, the mindset kicked in on september 11 because of what I knew. But I think also that when it came time to start this podcast, which someone asked me to do as part of being involved with the company. I heard a lot of people talking about resilience and so on, and I just thought of unstoppability, unstoppable mindset, because the reality is we all are more unstoppable than we think we are, and so the podcast is literally an opportunity to converse with anyone who wants to come on, and it is a conversation more, much more than an interview, but it's a conversation about them, their lives, what they've done, and including what did you do that made you realize that you're more unstoppable than you think you are, and maybe you didn't realize that, but you are, and here's let's talk about this, and so those are those are things that I talk about. But I believe that everyone has a story to tell, so I'm always looking for people to come on the podcast and tell their stories and talk with with me about their experiences and so on, and that's how you know we found Bob Ellis, who's going to be with us on the Pentagon. I had actually contacted him about speaking to his organization, and I always mentioned the World Trade Center in initial introductory letters. And he wrote back and said that he would love to help, but he also wrote back and said, you know, I was in the Pentagon on September 11th, and that opened our dialog. And the result was that we finally set up for him to come on Unstoppable Mindset. And when when we did our conversation, I learned, for example, that he walked out the door, and it just he was supposed to be in a meeting that was right near where the plane actually came through the window, and in Bob's case, he had literally just left because the meeting ended up not happening, and he had just walked outside the door when he heard the plane, and he didn't really understand what was happening. But the plane sped up, and then it just crashed right into the tower, into the Pentagon, and he ran from the area, but he was very much involved with with talents that allowed him to help acquire things to help other people survive and so on, and did that for a couple of days or four days. But Bob will tell his story on September 11th. But he was literally just out the door when the plane hit. Amplifyou 48:42 Wow! Well, your guests can look forward to that interview. Will be the next up after this one. And I want to thank you, Michael, for sitting down with me today. I oh, it's always a pleasure, and thanks for allowing me to take over the hosting seat for today on your show, so we can hear more of your story, and thank you for sharing all the lessons you've learned from this experience. Michael Hingson 49:07 Well, well, thank you, and and I hope people will take them to heart. And I would say, if anyone wants to be on the podcast, we would love to have you send me an email at speaker s p e a k e r at michael hingson m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com. If you know of any speaking opportunities that need a keynote speaker to come in, not only to tell an inspiring story, but I want to make it very clear, but to teach also lessons about resilience, business continuity, and other things like that, email me at speaker@michaelhingson.com. Would love to talk with you about that. My website is www.michaelhinkson.com, or you can go to www.michaelhinkson.com/podcast. But we'd love to hear from you in in any way and and get to know you better and you know go from there. Amplifyou 49:57 Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Michael, for today. We'll take care and see you soon. Michael Hingson 50:02 Sounds good. Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset.

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Episode 472 – Unstoppable Lessons From My 9/11 Survival Story

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 4, 2026 58:44

Surviving September 11 took more than courage. It took preparation, trust, and the ability to manage fear. I share my experience escaping from the 78th floor of the World Trade Center with my guide dog, Roselle, and the lessons that shaped how I responded that morning. You'll hear how years of learning my surroundings, trusting my training, and understanding my role as a leader helped me stay focused during the evacuation. I also explore blindness, the limits society places on blind people, and the power of teamwork between a guide dog and handler. Most of all, this story is about focusing on what you can control, trusting the relationships you've built, and preparing yourself to act when fear shows up. Highlights: 00:10 – Why Michael is revisiting September 11, 25 years later. 11:45 – How Michael learned that blindness itself isn't the limitation. 32:50 – Why preparation inside the World Trade Center mattered when crisis hit. 36:40 – How staying calm helped Michael lead others toward safety. 44:46 – The lesson Michael heard while running from the collapsing tower. 51:59 – What Roselle taught Michael about fear, trust, and moving forward. About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Transcript: Michael Hingson 00:04 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. I am your host, Mike Hingson, and today we're doing something a little bit different. This is Friday, september 4, 20/26, and this is the first of four episodes commemorating all of the events that happened in and around September 11, 2001. As many of you know, I was in the World Trade Center working for a company. I had opened an office for them on the 78th floor of Tower One of the World Trade Center, and on September 11th, I was in my office because we were going to be doing some special sales training for people, and I was there getting prepared to do all of that when the terrorists attacked the towers, and then later the Pentagon. And as you may know, a fourth aircraft was crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, because people on the aircraft took it over from the terrorists or tried to anyway, so one of the things that we thought would be helpful would be for me to give you again a taste of what I actually went through and what occurred on September 11, 2001, when we started this podcast back in August of 2021, I played a speech that talked about some of what happened to me in the World Trade Center. But today we're going to do a different speech. In April of 2024, I was invited to be a speaker at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. Now that festival is a yearly event celebrating and commemorating different events in American history. In 2024, I was invited to come and speak and talk about my experience at the World Trade Center and to help put some of that into context. I thought it would be very relevant for all of you if we played that speech for you, so that you would again get a taste of what occurred with me, why I was able to survive and escape, and a little bit about the lessons that we should learn about not only September 11th, but frankly, from my perspective, being the fact that I have been blind since I was born in 1950, I want you to learn a little bit more about blindness. So we're going to present to you now my speech delivered in April on April 27, 2024, at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. I hope that you'll enjoy it. I hope that it will teach you some things, and don't forget that we have other episodes coming up. We have another episode occurring on the eighth of September where I'm going to be interviewed by Michelle Abraham from Amplify You. Amplify You is the company that I work with to get these podcasts out twice a week, and Michelle has her own podcast, and she's going to interview me to talk about lessons we've learned, to talk a little bit about what happened on September 11th. But we won't give anything away for what's going to happen later in this series of episodes. On September 11th, I will be talking with Bob Ellis. Bob was at the Pentagon on September 11th and literally just walked out the door just before the aircraft hit the Pentagon. We're going to talk about that and again, hopefully, put some of things in perspective for you. Then on the 15th of September, I'm going to come back on episode 475 of our podcast, and talk a little bit more in detail about the lessons that I've learned, and talk about things that I hope people will take away and remember from september 11. I know many of you weren't even born when the World Trade Center terrorist attacks occurred, and so this episode 472, especially, I hope will give you a little bit better sense of what occurred, and from my perspective, why things occurred the way they did, and and how we proceed. So I hope you'll enjoy this episode. Hope that you'll enjoy what it brings, and we will definitely be moving forward to talk about some other things later on. Speaker 1 04:24 There are moments in American history that changed the national conscience. Yesterday, we heard about the assassination of President Kennedy. Some of you might be old enough to remember the attack of Pearl Harbor, and for most recently in American history, of course, the terrorist attacks September 11th. Today, you're going to hear a riveting account, a a heroic story of a man whose story I believe will really pull at your heartstrings. And to moderate that panel today, or that interview, to do is conduct our interview. Today is Mary Acher, who's no stranger to this stage, good friend, presidential historian, and a great interviewer. If you'll put your hands together for Miss Mary, Speaker 2 05:11 I just am so honored to met Michael Hinkson and Alamo. You know by what you see that he came down on the 78th floor of the North Tower with his guide dog Brosel, but I have a friend named Doug Weed who always told me, "You don't brag on yourself; you get somebody else to brag on you. And I want to brag on Michael before we start this. Before I ask him to tell this story, Michael was a premature baby, and at the time when he was born, they put the babies in pre in a the premature babies in a incubator sealed with 100% oxygen, and the doctors didn't know that then, but it blinded the children, and Michael was blinded at birth. So Michael was very fortunate that he had parents that refused to allow him to even think about being disabled. They mainstreamed him before mainstreaming was even known, and they taught him to ride a bicycle. They let him drive a car, and later in his life, he actually piloted an airplane. Is that amazing? He loved mathematics. He loved physics. He was taught geometry. He solved math problems in his head. He's got a master's degree in physics and another-not a master's, but a regular in in teaching. So that is why he is such an amazing man. He's never ever let this what enough people call a disability stop him at all? As a matter of fact, he has been such an amazing gift to the unsighted community in in the Braille and things that technology that blind people can utilize to be online and be all kinds of of things that they wouldn't ever have been allowed to do even 50 years ago. So anyway, I'm just so honored to have met you, Michael. It's just been amazing. I'm going to take him to Lambert's tomorrow. He says I have to catch the rolls, or somebody else will catch them and they'll eat them and he won't get it. I promised him I'd catch the rolls. All right, my dear Michael, would you start telling us about that horrendous day? I am Michael Hingson 08:00 going to not do what I said I was gonna do. I'm gonna stand up, and I'm gonna be very interested to go to Lambert's to see what they do with me, since normally they would throw the rolls, as I understand it. And I'm gonna point out that doesn't really work. So now, what are you gonna do? Because if they all fall on the floor and the dog gets them, and the dog gets sick, you guys are in trouble. So I'll be interested to see exactly what happens. No, I'm sure it will work out. Mary, thank you for those those kind words. I'd like to start by defining a couple things to help us in all of this. Mary is absolutely right about what my parents did in their position, the doctors told my parents when it was discovered I was blind at about four months of age that I should be sent to a home because no blind child could ever grow up to amount to anything or contribute to society. If you think that's bad, it was worse in other parts of the world where, when children were born who were blind, were just drowned in a bucket of water. So, in a sense, it wasn't as bad. Not every child who was born premature and put in an incubator did go blind, and it's unfortunate, in a sense, that at the time that I was born. Dr. Arnold Papps at the Wilmer Eye Institute at Johns Hopkins University had discovered that, in fact, oxygen could cause blindness, and even a few minutes a day of a non-oxygen environment would drop the incidence of blindness down to zero. But medical science didn't believe him because they said, "Well, too much oxygen can't be a problem. And what Dr. Arnold Pats essentially really proved is that too much of anything can be a problem. So it is it is an issue. I finally actually some time ago got to meet Dr. Pats. Before he passed, it was it was fascinating to talk with him about that. The condition at the time when I was born was called retroenterial fibroplasia. If you want to know how to spell that, I wrote a book called Thunderdog: The Story of a Blind Man, His Guide Dog, and the Triumph of Trust at Ground Zero, which we plan to have here, but the publisher messed up, so it wasn't. But you can go buy Thunderdog anywhere, and you can learn how to spell retrolateral fibroplegia. It is now called retinopathyoprematurity. I guess that's a little easier to spell. I don't know still why they changed the name, but they did. So fine, I don't care. I am blind. I don't care. Blindness isn't the problem. I've learned from my parents and growing up and being alive now for yep 74 years, blindness isn't the problem. The problem is our perception of blindness, what we believe blind people can and can't do, as opposed to what they truly can and can't do. If you want to really see a story or something about a blind person driving a car, there is a website www.blinddriverchallenge.org. Blinddriverchallenge.org. The president of the National Federation of the Blind in October of 2001 challenged private industry and universities to create a vehicle that a blind person could drive, not an autonomous vehicle, but truly a vehicle that would transmit to the blind person the information necessary for them to drive the vehicle. What you will see at blinddriverchallenge.org is a video of a gentleman named Mark Riccobono. Too many marks. Mark Riccobono driving a vehicle independently without any assistance around the Daytona Speedway, right before the 2011 Rolex 24 race, he will go through an obstacle course. He will pass boxes that are being thrown out of a van to try to block his way. He will pass the van and a number of things like that. The reality is, what is driving? It's all about you having the information necessary for you to control your vehicle, and as far as I'm concerned, given what Mark Riccobono did, and given the reality that the information is available to us, given the way most sighted drivers drive, I'll take me any day, especially where I live in Victorville. My gosh! But the the reality is, blindness isn't the problem. I grew up believing that I went to public school. I went to college. Michael Hingson 12:26 I did get a master's degree in physics. As I love to tell people, I'm as good as Doc Brown from Back to the Future in building reactors and nuclear bombs. The only difference between me and Doc Brown is I won't go steal fissionable material from some source that might come after me later. So you know, I think I was a little smarter than Doc Brown, but the fact is, again, it's not the problem. I was also the program director of the campus radio station for a while, and I worked at the campus radio station KUCI 89.9 on your FM dial for seven years. I did a show playing old radio shows every Sunday night from six to nine. Didn't even know what 60 minutes was. I heard about it, and one day finally somebody from the show or from the the Orange County Jail called and said, "We really got a situation. We want you to know about it here at the jail. People who heard about you, they've heard about 60 minutes, and on Sunday nights we have to divide the jail in half. Half of the people go up to a television room to watch 60 Minutes, and the other half, which is the bigger half, want to hear your show playing old radio shows on Sunday nights. So you know we must be doing something right. That even at the jail, they liked us. I went to work in 1976 for the National Federation of the Blind. It's the largest organization of blind consumers in the country. I was offered a position because I was in in the science world, one of the few at the time in that world. And the president of the federation, Dr. Jernigan, told me in late 74, early 75, we got a situation. There's a guy named Ray Kurzweil. You may have heard of Ray. He's a futurist. He's an inventor. He's invented the singularity. I'm not totally sure I agree with everything that Ray says. You know, Ray once said the only problem with God is we haven't invented it yet. I don't agree with that. And the other part about it is Ray says that we're really going to all become part of the world when chips are created that will allow us to directly interact with computers. Well, we'll see. I don't want to chip in my brain yet. But Ray at that time had developed a piece of technology that would actually look at a printed page. It actually had to build it up line by line, so it wasn't like snapping a picture. But it would learn to recognize all the characters on that page, no matter what their type styles or print styles were, and it would read it out loud, called the Kurzweil Reading Machine for the Blind. Just like with blindness and retro-entral fibroblasia, the government didn't believe he could do it because nobody else had been able to do it, and so they wouldn't help fund it. He came to the federation, and the federation said, "Tell you what we're going to do." Ray, I'm not sure they said it quite that way, but tell you what we're going to do, Ray. We're going to send somebody up there with a bunch of material, and if your machine reads what we bring up, not what you want to read, if it reads what we bring up, then we're going to help you get funding. And Ray, I'm sure again it wasn't quite the way he said it, but he said, "Bring it on. They did. It did, and a relationship began that exists to this day-a machine that literally would read print out loud. And Ray wanted the first application of omnivore optical character recognition to be a machine that would read print out loud for blind people. We created a project where we purchased several machines, and then for 18 months, from 1976, in October through June of 1978, I lived in suitcases or out of suitcases in hotels, traveling around the country where we put machines at places like the New York Public Library, the Iowa Commission for the Blind, the San Francisco Public Library, and some other agencies for the blind around the country. Michael Hingson 15:59 The idea being that we wanted blind people to come and use the machine, read whatever they wanted to read, and then give us information about what needed to go into a final production model of the machine. I wrote training curriculum. I wrote the the technical manuals for teaching people how to use the machine. I taught people to use it. I observed people using it. Sometimes grabbed my old soldering gun and fix things that broke on the machines. These were $50,000, 400 pound machines. They weren't little things like an app on an iPhone today, right? So anyway, we finally wrote the final recommendations, and then Ray said, "I want to hire you to come and do the same sort of thing within the company. So I went to work for Ray, moved to Cambridge, Massachusetts. Actually, I learned I moved to Winthrop, Massachusetts, learned how to go from Winthrop to Cambridge every day, and we began a relationship. And I worked at Kurzweil Computer Products, in and that started in again October of 1978. In May of 1978, I was called into the office of the VP of Marketing, and Andrew Parson said, "We're laying you off. What? We're laying you off. Why? Oh, it's not that you're doing a bad job or anything, but unfortunately, like a lot of engineering startup companies, we've hired too many people who aren't revenue producers, and we have to have more revenue producers. And so, as important as your job is, it's not as important as making money for the company. So we have to lay you off. Then he paused and he said, "Unless you'll go into sales. Now, I'm a science guy. However, I thought about it for a micro nanosecond, and I said, "Sure, I'll go into sales. As I love to tell people, I decided I would lower my standards and go from science to sales, and did. I said I don't know anything about sales. He said we'll send you to a Dale Carnegie sales course and all that. Well, I started selling, but not the reading machine for the blind. Instead, I sold a new product they had called the Kurzweil Data Entry Machine, and unlike the reading machine for the blind that sold for $50,000, if you want one, we might be able to find one of the old machines for you for 49 995. Instead, I sold a new product called the Kurzweil Data Entry Machine, which was only $125,000. I guess they had confidence in my ability, and I was very grateful for it. The real reason that I didn't want to refuse the sales position is I knew that at that time, and it's still somewhat today, the unemployment rate among employable blind people is close to 70. That is seven 0% It's not because we can't do the work; it's because people think we won't be able to do the work and don't give us the opportunity. So the bottom line is, I lowered my standards and went from science to sales, and did that for a while. And then in 1981, while Xerox was considering and actually working toward buying the product, I was asked by Ray and the VP of Sales to move back to California, where I was from, to help integrate Kurzweil into the Xerox West Coast environment, including their research center called Palo Alto Area Research Center Park, and I did. And my thanks for that was that after the the whole sale was consummated and Xerox completely took over. I was the last salesperson in June of 1984 to receive a FedEx letter saying thank you for your service, but we don't want you anymore. Goodbye, because all Xerox wanted was the technology. They didn't want the people. Now I was confronted with the situation. How am I going to find a job? What am I going to do? 70% unemployment. and I went out and I wrote lots of cover letters, sent out lots of resumes, and I even got a headhunter who called me and said, "Love your resume. We're going to have you interview with this company up in San Jose, California. We'll send you a ticket. They sent me the ticket the night before the flight. The guy called. Back and he says, "You know, I was just looking at your resume again. I see you do a lot of things with blind people. Michael Hingson 20:04 Is there somebody in your family who's blind? You notice that? And I said, "Yeah, I'm blind. You're blind? Well, I'm going to have to call them. They're not going to want to talk to you. I said, "Nothing has changed. My resume is still the same, but you're blind. It's all changed. No, it hasn't. There were no laws to stand on. The reservation was canceled, and I didn't do the interview. Their loss. If Speaker 3 20:30 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson 21:02 Eventually, not finding a job, I started my own company selling computer-aided design systems to architects. A blind guy selling CAD systems? Why the heck not? I didn't need to work the machine. What I needed to know was how to work the machine, so I could describe it to architects, and I could sit them down in front of a machine and talk with them and talk them through it. We also hired people to demo CAD systems, and I did that for four years. And then I went back into the workforce. And when I went back into the workforce, my wife and I were talking one day, and she said, "You know, I got this great job I just discovered in the newspaper. It's selling high-end, new, revolutionary, hot, pluggable disc technology. It's perfect for you. You should apply. And I said to my wife Karen, who I had married in 1982. By the way, Karen also had a disability. She was in a wheelchair her whole life. She reads. I push. Worked out well. I said, so do I say in my cover letter I'm blind or not? Because typically, if you say you're blind, same thing will happen with the headhunter. You won't even get a call back if you don't say you're blind. You might get a callback, but then they're going to have all their defenses go up when you show up for the interview. And she said, "You're an idiot. Wives can do that, gentlemen, and it's fine. You're an idiot. Why? What's the most important thing you always said to every salesperson you ever hired, well, I wasn't quite sure which things she was thinking of. I had several things that I always said to salespeople I hired. She said, "You always told every salesperson you ever hired turn here's the operative word perceived liabilities into assets. You ever watch those little cartoons in the newspapers and all that, where the light bulb goes on over your head. Well, that's what happened, and I went and I wrote a cover letter to send with this resume to this company. And here are the last two paragraphs of the letter. The most important thing you need to know about me is that I am blind. As a blind person, I have had to sell all my life just to be able to function and survive. I've had to sell to take my guide dog on airplanes. I didn't tell them that we had to sue one airline because they violated their own policy because they wouldn't let me go on an airplane with my guide dog. I've had to sell to convince people to let me buy a house, move into apartments, sometimes take my guide dog into grocery stores, and do anything else because I was blind, I've always had to sell. So, second paragraph: When you're hiring someone for this job, do you want to hire somebody who comes in and works for eight or 10 hours a day, and then just goes home because the job is over, or do you want to truly hire somebody who understands sales for the science and art that it is, and who sells 24 hours a day as a way of life. Sent off the letter. Waited for two weeks, wondering if I'd get a call or an email. Well, no, not an email, not back then. But in late June 19 or May 1989, I got a call. This is Doug Cooper, head of marketing for Articon. We love your letter. Would you come for an interview? And I said sure. Next day we were down there. I was hired and started on july 2, 1989. Love to start on the second of July, or actually the third of July, because then I got the next day off. It was great. So I went to work for them, and we moved from where we were living in Mission Viejo down to Vista, California. The company was in Carlsbad. I began selling to the East Coast, selling our technologies and other technologies, Sun Microsystems products, and so on. And then in 1996, the owner of the company asked me to move to New York for them because we were selling to Wall Street. Michael Hingson 24:37 Wall Street was always good at getting and demanding and getting what they demanded, and they always said, "If you are a manufacturer and you're selling products to us, we want a representative, not an agent, but we want the company in Wall Street Arena to be able to to hold responsible and deal with. So we moved to New York. And I went to work on the 23rd floor of Tower Two of the World Trade Center, and was there for about a year, and then was recruited away by another company, and it wasn't hard because Articon did not figure out how to support a branch operation. So I was recruited away, and then in 1999 I was recruited away by Quantum Corporation, and now we're getting to what Mary asked about. But I needed to give you the background. Hope it was okay. So in 1999, I was hired to open an office for Quantum Corporation on well in New York City. Quantum was a company that made products called tape libraries. They were big boxes that consisted of tape drives and lots of tape cartridges, and you would attach them to computer networks, and then you would use software like one called Veritas, which is still used today. And what you would do is you would back up all of your data over the network into these tape libraries, onto tape cartridges, and then you would take the tape cartridges out and store them off-site. Now I gotta stop and be spiteful because in New Jersey they love to say that they stored them in a town called Mountainside Under a Mountain. You ever see a mountain in northern New Jersey? I came from California where we had mountains that were eight, 910, 1000 feet tall. They didn't even have decent hills, but they still called it a mountain. That was fine, whatever. They still were able to store the tapes in safe places. But the point is that all the data was backed up off-site, which is what they needed to do. We opened the actual office on august 1, 2000. I hired a staff, and we had a staff that came in and and sold, and we also worked with resellers. And in August of 2001, our main distributor Ingram Micro said, "You know, we got a lot of resellers who are selling your products, but they don't really know how to do it. Can we hold some seminars to teach our your reseller partners, our customers, the resellers, how to sell your product? I said, "You bet. We worked it out with the folks at Quantum. David Frank, who was in charge of pricing and distribution, said he wanted to come back to be a part of the seminars, and we set up doing the seminars. The idea was that we would teach them. I would be their main point of contact since I worked and lived there. David would be the person that I or they would contact without with any pricing issues, but I would be the technical point of contact contact. Master's degree in physics helps, and so we set up the seminars. And wouldn't you know it, we set them up to be held on september 11, 2001. The evening before, or the morning of September 11th, about 12:30, Roselle, my guide dog at the time, woke me up. She was very nervous and fidgety. I knew what it was like when she was fidgety. It was usually because it was a thunderstorm. She didn't like thunder, and we went down to my office. And of course, a thunderstorm did happen, and the storm literally came right over our house. I've never been in an environment where bombs went off around me, but I got to say that in this case, the thunder claps were, as I said, literally right over us, and it had to be like what a bomb sounds like going off. Anyway, it went on till about two, and then we went back up and got a couple more hours of sleep, three more hours of sleep. I got up. We went in and got to the office at about 7:40 in the morning on September 11th. As I came to the door, somebody came up with a cart. It turns out it was a guy from the Port Authority cafeteria. Michael Hingson 28:33 We were going to be providing breakfast and snacks for the first and second seminarians. We had seminars going all day, so we went in. I showed him where I wanted to set up everything in the conference room. I went in, got my laptop computer out of my backpack briefcase. I got my PowerPoint projector, and I went into the conference room and set everything up because I was going to be doing a PowerPoint show that day to give people all the information they needed about the ATLP 3000, the ATLP 1000, and so on. Yes, blind people can do PowerPoint, folks. It's not magic. You sighted bigots. So I had a script, and my wife and I had created the script, and I'd used it many times. The script was in Braille. I knew what was on every slide. We put a couple of things in addition on the script. We put all the wording from the slides on the script, and we also put on the script descriptions of the pictures, as well as where the picture would show up on the screen. So I would, for example, when we showed this to other customers around the city, I'd blow their minds because I would be doing the presentation. My sales guys loved it when I went out and did PowerPoint presentations because I could just point over my shoulder. On the left side of your screen, you'll see the ATLP 3000 with 16 cartridge, 16 drives, 326. Cartridges, and you see the label that says Prism Technology. We could hook five of them together. On the right side of your screen, you'll see the ATLP 1000, which was a single unit with 30 cartridges and one tape drive. And people would come up to me afterwards, and they say, "You know, we're ticked at you. I go, "Why? Well, first of all, your presentation was not boring, which usually they are. But second of all, you never turned and looked at the screen. You kept looking at us, even though you were pointing right to where everything was with your laser pointer. We didn't dare fall asleep. We forgot you were blind. And my response was, "You don't get it. My dog was down here taking notes. If you'd fallen asleep, we would have got you anyway. But that was what it was about. My responsibility was to be the leader of that office, and I had to do what anyone else would do. One of the main things that I did was spend hours, days walking around the World Trade Center, learning what the kiosks were in the shopping mall on the first floor, learning where different offices were, consulting with the Port Authority police and the fire prevention people learning what to do in case of an emergency because sometimes I might be in the office all by my little self. There would be nobody else around. I didn't want my staff in the office. I wanted them out selling and working and supporting customers. Not being in the office, of course, they did usually come in at least once a week. And and so I learned never watched The Sopranos, but I got to tell you, I learned more about the Sopranos from all the Italian Americans on my staff who talked about the Sopranos constantly. Bada bing, bada boom, and I learned a whole lot about Tony Soprano without ever watching the show. But the point is that I needed to know all that stuff. I needed to know where the restaurants were. Customers come into the office. Oh, you want to go out to lunch? What kind of food do you want? There's a great deli downstairs called Fine and Shapiro. Let me take you there. How would it have looked if I didn't know how to do that, and I had to say to someone, "You're going to have to let me take your arm and lead me there because I don't know how to get there, and two hours later we're supposed to be negotiating multi-million dollar contracts? No, I needed to know it. I didn't have the luxury, and I don't regard it as a luxury. I regard it as a disability of reading signs. I needed to know all of that stuff. What I didn't realize is that was creating a mindset in me, which I'll talk about in a moment. Michael Hingson 32:15 Anyway, got all the laptop projectors and everything set up. The only thing I knew I didn't know how to do extremely well is to get it exactly aimed right, but about 8o'clock, David Frank came in and I said, "Say, David, this is all set up, but let's aim the projector just exactly where you want it on the screen. And we did have to turn it just a little bit, but not too much. But anyway, at 845, I was in my office and David was with me. We were creating a final list of all the people who were going to be attending the seminars, because the Port Authority police, the security people, needed to know who was coming. There were two ways you could get into the building: either we faxed on letterhead a list of people who were coming on any given day, and then the people coming in would show their photo IDs, and it would be verified against the list. And if they were allowed in, then they would be given a badge that they would put over their neck, and they would carry that, and they could scan barcode and go into the appropriate elevator to come onto our floor, or they'd have to call us every time somebody came in. And I didn't want a lot of phone calls coming in, so we were faxing the list. I was reaching for Letterhead to fax to to print the list on Letterhead when suddenly I heard and felt kind of a muffled thump and a vibration. And then literally, if you any blind people in the room, well, I'll do it anyway. I'm holding up my hand, and what happened was that literally, as I'm now tipping my hand toward you, the building began to tip. We probably moved about 20 feet. The building kept tipping and tipping. David and I said together, "What's going on? I don't know. What's going on? What do you think? Was it an explosion? I said. David said, "Didn't sound like it. Is it an earthquake? David was from New York, and now he's living in California. He didn't know about earthquakes. I said, "No, the building wasn't shaking around. It was going in one direction. And finally, and I went over and I stood in the doorway between my office and the the outside lobby of our our offices, and I stood there. Roselle was asleep under my desk. David was just on the other side of my desk, holding it near our windows, looking out over Manhattan, the south side of Manhattan. And finally, David and I both said goodbye to each other because we thought we had moved so far that the building was going to take a 78 floor plunge to the street. And then the building slowed down, and it stopped, and it moved back. As soon as it got vertical, I started walking back into the office. I met Roselle coming around from under my desk. I took her leash. I said "heel, which meant to come around behind me to sit and lie down, which is what I would normally have Alamo do, but he's comfortable, so we'll just leave him there. Roselle sat down, and about that time. The building dropped straight down about six feet. Why did it drop down? Because tall buildings like that literally are springs. They're made to flex in windstorms and other things like that. An Empire, an airplane hit the Empire State Building in the 1940s because it got lost in a fog bank. Tall buildings are flexible. They have expansion joints, and when the building was hit, the expansion joints took up all of the the things that were going on. And then when the building got straight again, the expansion joints dropped back down to their normal configuration. I knew that because I had talked to people about stuff like that. I'd forgotten it until later, but I knew it. What I hadn't realized is that what was happening when I was learning so much stuff was that a mindset was being developed in me that said, "You know what to do in an emergency. And as soon as the building dropped, David turned and looked out the window and started shouting, "Oh my God, Mike! There's fire and smoke over us! There were millions of pieces of burning paper falling outside the windows. Michael Hingson 35:59 We got to get out of here right now! Slow down, David. No, we got to get out of here. The building's on fire. I could hear things rushing and brushing outside our windows, and now I knew what they were. David told me millions of pieces of burning paper, right? And I didn't smell any smoke. Roselle wasn't doing anything to indicate any concern, and David kept saying, "We got to get out of here. The building's on fire. And I kept saying, "Slow down. Our guests began to scream. We had like five or six who were in our conference room. Early arrivals. They started coming out, but then they heard me say, "Slow down, stop, David. Just wait. And they waited to see what was going to happen. And finally, David used the big line: "You don't understand. You can't see Speaker 4 36:37 it. The Michael Hingson 36:38 problem wasn't what I wasn't seeing, the problem was what David wasn't seeing-a dog sitting next to me, wagging her tail, yawning, going, "Who the heck woke me up? I was comfy, not giving any indication of fear. And I eventually got David to focus, and I said, "David, get our guests to the stairs. Don't let them take the elevators, because I knew if there's fire, especially because if there's fire, the elevators could become fire traps. The fire could get into the elevator shafts, which it did, and anybody in the cars would be burned. David left with our guests, got them to the stairs. Meanwhile, I called Karen and told her that there had been an explosion or something. We had no clue. There was no way to know. I love it. Reporters, even today, and other people say, "Well, of course you didn't know you couldn't see it. Excuse me, you numbskulls. The last time I checked, Superman and X-ray vision were fiction, and the airplane hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building. No one knew. All the way down the stairs, we didn't know because no one saw it. No one knew. Anyway, I called and told Karen she wanted to know more. I said, "I don't know anything else. I've got to go because we're not staying here. We knew instantly that we had to leave, but we got our guests out. Then David came back. We swept the offices one last time. Went to the stairs and we started down. If I knew it was the last time I was going to be in the building, I would have taken a couple of things that I didn't take. Like I had a really neat talking scientific calculator that I couldn't replace. And if I had known that I wasn't coming back, I would have taken it. It would have been a little heavier, but I would have taken it anyway. We started down the stairs. There were other people, of course, on the stairs. We got down about four floors, and I was smelling an odor. I couldn't quite figure it out, and suddenly I realized I'm smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. I traveled 100,000 miles a year for my company. I knew what the odor of jet fuel was like. I knew the kerosene smell, but it took a while to associate it with the World Trade Center because no one would have ever thought you would have smelled it there. When I realized what it was, I observed to the other people around me on the stairs, "I'm smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. And they said, "Yeah, you're right. That's what it is. We must have been hit by an airplane. You understand? Nobody knew. We must have been hit because of what we're smelling, so we all accepted that that was what was going on, but we had no clue. We continued down the stairs, about 10 floors down. At one point, a woman stopped right behind me, and she said, "I can't go on. I can't breathe. We're not going to make it out. And I stopped and turned around and said, "Sure, we are. Come on, this is my guide dog Roselle. He's guiding me, and and she'll encourage you. Roselle gave her kisses, and this lady gave Roselle a few pets, and so on. And other people surrounded her, and we had a group hug, and the lady was able to keep going. A few burn victims passed us on the stairs as we went down. At about the 50th floor, David, who had gotten a little quiet. Suddenly said, "Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. Now you heard that I have a teaching credential. What you don't know, and teachers won't generally acknowledge it, but I'm going to tell you anyway. There's a secret class we take called Voice 101: How to Yell at Students. Didn't know that, did you? And anyway, as soon as David. Said Mike, "We're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. I just said as sharply and with a snap into my voice that I could, "Stop it, David! If Rosella and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And David told me later that that brought him out of his funk. Michael Hingson 40:12 What he then said is, "I got to keep my mind off this. I want to walk a floor below you and shout up to you what I see on the stairs. Is that okay? And I said, sure. Did I really need him to do that? No. Did it matter? No, but it did to David. However, what I came to realize over time was, David doing that was one of the most important things that I experienced on that day. So I'm going down the stairs. I get to floor 49. David, I'm on the 48th floor. All's clear here, Mike. Going on down. I get to 48 floor, 47. We keep going down. Finally, I get to the 45th floor, David. I'm on the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is. Not stopping. So David was obviously doing better, and he kept going down. Why do I say what I did about David and doing that? Because David became a focal point for anyone within the sound of his voice who could hear him say, "43rd floor, all's clear, everything is good. He had to have helped 1000s of people stay focused and not panic going down the stairs, and I think that was so cool that he did that all the way down 42nd floor, all good. We kept going down the stairs. We met firefighters on the 30th floor. They wanted to escort me down, and I finally convinced them that I was capable of going down without them. And I did it by playing the sight card. I said, "Look, my friend David is here. He can see we're good, and the firefighters let us go. I didn't want them to escort me. First of all, they don't know how to work with a blind guy and do sighted guide. But second of all, I didn't want to break up their team because I knew that each of those people were carrying the equipment that they had to use to fight the fire. You couldn't store it somewhere. Where would you store it? Oh, the 34th floor. And what happens if a fire broke out on the 33rd floor, you couldn't get to it. You had to carry the equipment, so we kept going down the stairs. Finally, got to the first floor. David got there, and I was at floor two. And he said, "Hey, there are water sprinklers running. You're going to have to run through a waterfall or a down torrent of water to get out of the stairwell. Why was there all that water? Because it wanted to keep fire either in or out of the stairs, if fire was around. David ran through. Then I got to the bottom. Roselle stood there, and I picked up her harness and said, "Rosel, forward, hop up, which is a command to speed up. We went through this torrential downpour. It was a waterfall, and we came out the other side, soaking. David was there, and there were voices. Hey, don't go outside! No, no, don't go that way. Go this way. A PA system, a guy on a bullhorn. No, no, no! Don't go outside. Don't go to the outside. Go this way. What we didn't know is, if they had let people go out, they might have been right below where people were jumping. And so that was one of the reasons they didn't want anyone out. They wanted people to go through the complex and get out at the far side, as far away from where everything was occurring that they could. This guy comes up to us and he goes, "I'm with the FBI. I'll get you where you need to go. And of course, I'm sitting there with my warped sense of humor, going, "I'm sorry, I only talked to McGarrett, and I didn't do it. I'm innocent. I just thought that I didn't say any of it out loud. Anyway, he got us through out to the outside of Tower One. We passed now the empty Ben and Jerry's ice cream kiosk that was there. Darn didn't get a chance for a scoop. Kept going. Finally, went up an escalator and got outside into the sunshine outside of Tower. Well, of the whole complex, as far away from the towers as we could be, we got outside. Michael Hingson 43:44 We were told to leave the area, but David looked around and he said, "Mike, I see fire in Tower Two. And I said, "What are you talking about? There's fire in Tower Two, really? What's that all about? We didn't feel a thing going down. We were in our own little cocoon, our own little cave. We had no clue. Anyway, we were told to leave, so we went to Broadway. We walked across the plaza to Broadway, turn left, going now north on Broadway. There was a building on my left. Broadway was on my right. We crossed several streets, crossed Fulton Street, finally got to Vetsy Street. David said, "I want to stop because I can see the fire in Tower Two really clearly from here, I want to take some pictures, and I said, "Great, I'll try to call my wife. I got out my phone. David was taking pictures, which I have today. I tried to call Karen. I couldn't get through. Later, of course, we learned that people were saying goodbye to loved ones, and that was why the circuits were busy. I had just put my phone away, and a police officer, and while David was putting his camera away, and a police officer yelled out of here! It's coming down now. We heard this rumble that became this deafening roar. I describe it as kind of a combination of a freight train and a waterfall. You could hear glass breaking and tinkling, and metal crashing down, and then this white noise sound as Tower Two, 100 yards away from. Pancake down. Everyone turned and ran. David ran. He was gone. I literally lifted Roselle by the harness, turned her 180 degrees, and started running back the way we came. And the first thing I remember saying in my mind was, "God, I cannot believe that you got us out of a building just to have it fall on us. And as soon as I thought that, I heard in my head as clearly as you hear me now, a voice that said, "Don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. Who is God? Absolutely no question. Don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. And so I also had this incredible sense of peace and calm that came over me. That said, you're okay if you work together. We kept running. We got back to Fulton Street, turned right on Fulton Street, and ran about 25 yards. And suddenly we caught up to David, who had apparently gone the same way. And David suddenly realized that he had left us behind and he was going to come back, but we caught up to him first, and he apologized. I said, "David, don't worry about it. Let's just keep going. The building's coming down, you know. And we both just started to run with Roselle, and suddenly we were engulfed in all the dirt and debris and the dust cloud from Tower Two. It was so thick that David said he couldn't see his hand six inches in front of his face, and all I can tell you is that every breath I took, I felt dirt and debris and junk going down my throat into my stomach, and we knew we had to get out of that. So I started telling Roselle, "Go right, right. There was a building on our right side, and I wanted her to find the nearest opening if she could even hear me, see my hand signals, or whatever. And I was also listening for openings. Yes, I can hear when I pass an opening, and I and I can tell it's there and deal with it accordingly. Like during a time when you're running away from a collapsing building, run into it. Suddenly, I heard an opening on the right, and Roselle must have known what I wanted. She must have been able to see my hand signals or something because she turned right, she took one step, she stopped, and she would not move. Come on, Roselle, keep going. She wouldn't move. Come on, Roselle. Nope, wouldn't do it. And I realized, focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. So I stuck out a foot. Michael Hingson 47:13 I trailed a hand along a wall, and realized that we were at the top of a flight of stairs. Roselle had done exactly what she was supposed to do, and I knew what I was supposed to do if I wanted to get her to move. But before I did that, I gave her a big hug, good girl, and then I said, "Roselle, forward! That's the command. And we went down the stairs into an arcade area that was the entrance to the Fulton Street subway station. There were a few other people down there. Then a guy came up from the subway system and saw about eight or nine of us there. He introduced himself as Lou, an employee of the subway system, and he took us down to an employee locker room where we could sit down and and kind of hack and cough and get the dust out of our lungs. There was a water fountain and there were fans. We were there about 10 minutes. Then a police officer came, and he said, "You got to get out of here right now. The air's clear up above. You can't stay here. And so we followed him. Of course, he probably had already been told that Tower One was going to collapse. the The officials knew that each building was going to collapse probably about a half hour before it actually did. At least that was their presumption, and that's what I've been told. Anyway, we followed him back up the stairs, through the arcade, up the last two flights of stairs. We got outside. David looked around and he goes, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no Tower Two anymore. And I said, "What do you see? And he said, "All I see are pillars of smoke, hundreds of feet tall. We stood there for a moment, and then we just turned, and we kept walking. Now west on Fulton Street, we walked about 10 minutes, and we were in this little plaza area when we heard that freight train waterfall sound again, and we knew it must be our tower collapsing. We saw a little retaining wall David did, and we got behind it and ducked down, and we waited until everything stopped, and then we stood back up. And David looked around and he said, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no World Trade Center anymore. And I said, "What do you see? And he said, "I just see fingers of fire and flame, hundreds of feet tall. We see, I see pillars of smoke. It's gone. Are you sure? Yeah, it's gone. It's not there. We stood there a moment, then I tried to call my wife Karen again. That was kind of my first thought. I need to tell her we're okay. This time I did get through because clearly the circuits were were free. And after some tears on both sides of the phone, she is the one who told us how two aircraft had deliberately been hijacked and crashed into the towers, one into the Pentagon, and a fourth at that time was still missing over Pennsylvania. Who would have thought? We spent the rest of that day getting up toward Midtown Manhattan, and eventually I got to Penn Station, learned that the trains were running, and went back. Out to New Jersey, David wanted to go back up to be with his sister, who he who he was staying with. She lived on the Upper East Side, so I got on trains and I went back over toward New Jersey. I called Karen and told her what was going on, and a friend of ours, a friend that Karen had known since high school out in California, Tom Painter, was also living in New Jersey, he had come down to be with her, not even knowing at the time whether I was in the World Trade Center or working from home that day or whatever. But he drove her to the station in our accessible van, and as I came off the train, I heard the van show up. I went downstairs, climbed and went up the ramp into the van, and got to hug Karen about 7o'clock that night, for the first time since leaving home, we got home. Tom drove us home. We all went inside. I was going to take Roselle outside because she hadn't been out since like five that morning. Michael Hingson 50:53 Well, I take that back about six that morning, and I took her harness off. But before I could do anything else, she was off like a shot. She went to her toy box, found her favorite tug bone, and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linny. Why? Because it was over for her. And I talked to the guide dog people later, and I said, "Will any of this affect her? And they said, "Was she threatened? Did anything hit her or injure her in any way, and I said no. They said then no. It was over for her because dogs don't do what if. It was over. It was done. She was fine. Lesson to be learned. Lesson you will learn more about if you buy our new book, Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Guide his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity, and walking in faith. That that book is available for pre-order, and I've been signing bookmarks all day. I still even have a few with me. But the point is, you can pre-order it, and and it's about something that I learned later. I thought about during the pandemic. I've talked a lot about escaping and not being afraid because I developed a mindset that said you know what to do, but what I've not done is to teach others how they can learn to recognize that fear is not something that needs to blind or overwhelm you. You can use fear as a very powerful tool to guide you and steer you in the right direction if you know how to control it, and live like a guide dog is all about that. So I hope that you'll all get that when it comes out in August. But again, you can pre-order it now if you go to michaelhinkston.com. There's a link there where you can go to a web page to get information and to go to a link where you can pre-order it. And like I said, I have some bookmarked with a QR code on it, and and I'm and I yes I am plugging the book, but I'm also saying, look, folks, the bottom line is we operate in so many ways with misconceptions about things. I've talked about blindness. Anybody could have been in the World Trade Center, and and a lot of people were. The reality is, though, if you learn what to do and how to prepare for situations in general, when it becomes something specific, you'll know what to do. People have asked a number of times, "Well, wasn't your guide dog trained to operate in an emergency like the World Trade Center? How are we going to do that? No, the dog isn't trained to do that. The guide dog's job is not to lead. Guide dogs do not lead blind people. Guide dogs' jobs are to make sure that we walk safe. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there to give the dog direction. The dog depends and relies on me to give it direction. The dog's job, as I said, is to make sure we walk safely. It's a team effort. We each have a job to do, and we develop a trusting relationship when we learn to trust each other and respect the job the other member of the team is doing, which is what it's all about. Which is what happens on any team, trust is all around us. Trust is under attack in so many ways from our politicians, and in so many ways. But the reality is, trust is all around us. I think we all trust that the roof isn't going to fall in on the church. I think that we trust that the PA system is going to continue to work, and so on. Trust is all around us. The difference between dogs and people is that dogs, while they do love unconditionally, do not trust unconditionally. But dogs are open to trust unless some incredibly traumatic thing has happened to them where they lose that ability. But dogs are open to trust, dogs want humans to give them direction to establish rules, and all too often with our pets and so on, we don't do that. We don't really develop the relationship that we should and can with them. Michael Hingson 54:54 If we would, we would have so much stronger bond and relationships with them. It would be. Amazing for for all of us, but the bottom line is that's the relationship that I get with each guide dog. That's the relationship I have with Alamo. He trusts that I am going to feed him before too awfully long. He trusts that you guys are going to buy books, so he'll have kibbles for me to feed him. Just saying, but but seriously, the the trust has to be earned with a dog or with people or whatever, and if you find that you you discover you can't trust someone, don't wish them ill will, forgive them and move on. So you don't trust them, but you know what you have, and you go off and make new friends and learn other trusting relationships that you can develop. Focus on running with Roselle; the rest will take care of itself. The reality is, we worry so much about so many things. We are always doing what if we create most of the fears that we face in our lives, and we Don't need to do that. If we would focus on just the things that we have some control over and leave the rest alone, well, we might want to be aware of them, but we don't have to worry about them. We don't have control over them. Trust and deal with the things that you have to deal with, and let the rest take care of itself. And that was what I learned on September 11th, listening to the voice of God, absolutely, and that is something that I pass on to all of you, and I think that's the most important thing that I can leave you with. Hi again, everyone. This is Mike Hingson. I hope that you found that speech to be helpful and relevant and interesting. I hope that you learn some things from it. From a personal standpoint, I hope that you learn that blindness isn't really the big problem that I face. The challenge that I face really comes from the fact that people who have eyesight tend to believe that blind people are not capable of doing much because they can't see. Wrong thing to believe. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on that because we did it during the speech, but I just wanted to thank you for being here today, for listening and watching this episode. I hope that you will also tune in for our episode on Tuesday, where I'm in conversation with Michelle Abraham on next Friday, the 11th of September, that you will tune in to hear the conversation with Bob Ellis, and then episode 475, which will occur on the 15th of September, where we will talk about lessons to be learned and and give you some things to hopefully take away that maybe you haven't thought about. Thanks very much for being here with us. I really very much appreciate all of your support. If any of you have any questions or want to reach out to me, you are welcome to do so. Please feel free to email me at speaker@michaelhinkson.com. That's s p e a k e r at m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com speaker@michaelhingson.com hope to hear from you and as you gather I do speak I continue to speak publicly I've been a keynote speaker since September 11 if anybody knows of anyone that needs a keynote speaker or you can use us in events that you have please reach out to me at speaker@michaelhingson.com let's talk about it. Let's see how we can help. I'm always looking for ways to inspire, but also to teach and help. And I'd like to be part of your world in that regard. Thanks again for being here. Thanks for listening, and come back next time for another episode of Unstoppable Mindset.

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Kinship Lab #03 - Facets and Goals of the Side B Project

america new york celebrate prepares new york state empire state david frank

Play Episode Listen Later May 25, 2026 74:33

Following up on our earlier conversations, we engage the Side B project. Yes, project. Side B is often thought of as a community of queer/SSA Christians committed to the traditional, Christian sexual ethic. But the Side B project is much bigger than just being honest about not being straight and being steadfast in our theological ethics. We review and riff of Grant Hartley's article on this very topic. Questions for those who listen (and actually listen, because Side B has enough online trolls who don't engage in real dialogue and just think we're some new edge of whatever the gay agenda is): Are there any other aspects of the Side B project that you think we forgot mention?Which aspect of the the Side B project most resonates with your own passions?References:A well-written article by our friend Grant Hartley:Grant's SubstackWhat Exactly Is the Side B Project?Okay, what follows is a fairly niche reflection on the nature of the so-called Side B community (sexual and gender minorities who submit to what is often called a “traditional sexual ethic”), but before some of my readers who are not Side B (particularly my Side A friends) check out, let me say: I do honestly believe th…Read more10 months ago · 32 likes · 4 comments · Grant HartleyTime Stamps:00:00 Good morning!01:10 Why Discuss Side B03:13 Hartley's Essay Summary06:27 Tyler Reacts: Missing "Desire"16:51 David Frank's Goal: Prophetic Witness23:07 Boundaries, Labels, Therapy25:49 Trans/Gender Minority Questions37:23 Worth Discussing, eh?39:47 Side B Diversity44:16 Unity Beyond Movements49:11 Prophetic Schools and Boundaries54:24 Love over Ideology, Goods before Critiques01:03:27 We can have unity on paths of celibacy, right?01:08:49 Wrap Up and Community Plug01:13:10 After-show thoughts on new Google Icons Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

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New York prepares to celebrate country's 250th birthday

The Capitol Pressroom

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 26, 2026 16:39

March 26, 2026- We explore what the Empire State is doing this year to commemorate the founding of America with David Frank, assistant commissioner at the State Education Department, which co-leads the New York State 250th Commemoration Commission.

Kinship Lab #01 - The Future of the Side B Project

future project unity gender listener feedback kinship side b david frank

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 16, 2026 56:25

Tyler Parker, David Frank, and TJ introduce a new monthly-ish podcast format called the Kinship Lab, created to reflect on recent interviews/events or other emerging ideas. Comment below on any questions or topics you'd like to see in the future.In this first Kinship Lab, they reflect on a recent two-day summit of a handful of Side B leaders, emphasizing growing capacity for fruitful conversation amid differences and experienced trauma. Questions at play: What is Side B? How should Side B engage trans and gender-dysphoria experiences theologically and pastorally? How can Side B respond to ongoing debates about celibate partnerships? Can Side B leadership develop breadth, depth, accountability, and maybe even create a common covenant? Is Side B a gift for Q/SSA people, or for the whole church?00:00 Welcome to Kinship Lab02:23 Future of Side B | Why Call It Project04:25 Summit Setup and Hopes05:18 Building Trust Through Tension09:47 Defining Side B Today14:11 Gender Questions Rising17:16 Celibate Partnerships Debate18:53 Learning From Experts24:01 Global Voices Needed26:38 Leader Accountability and Unity29:51 Movement Longevity and Visibility32:00 Towards a Side B Covenant33:28 Gender and Queer Culture35:24 Unity and Accountability40:57 Why Statements Matter42:56 Side B as Liberatory Gift44:45 Theology Group Takeaways51:44 Closing and Next Topics55:14 Listener Feedback and Farewell Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

David Franck avec les Français d'Ukraine : « Nous participons à l'effort de guerre »

Lesfrancais.press's Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 23, 2026 12:17

Partagez votre opinion avec la rédactionLe 24 février 2022, la Russie lançait une invasion à grande échelle de l'Ukraine marquant une nouvelle étape dans le conflit opposant les deux pays. Quatre ans plus tard, l'intensité de la guerre ne faiblit pas. Depuis Kyiv, David Frank, président du Conseil consulaire des Français d'Ukraine, décrit ; au site Lesfrancais.press, un quotidien marqué par la violence et les restrictions mais aussi par le soutien de la France, essentiel. Support the show

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Episode 265: A Conversation About the David Frank Martinez Case

The Mike and Tony Show

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 15, 2026

Today's conversation is not an easy one — and it's not meant to be.This episode looks at a story that includes a violent crime, an arrest, two trials with two very different outcomes, and the ripple effects that continue long after a verdict is read. In June of 2024, a shooting at Veteran's Tavern in Pueblo, Colorado left two women injured, and took the life of 65-year-old Elaine Masias. David Frank Martinez was later arrested and ultimately convicted after a second trial, following an earlier mistrial in which a jury could not reach a unanimous decision.We're joined by Martinez's daughter, who believes that conviction was wrongful. We gave her the space to share her perspective — what she saw unfold, what she feels was misunderstood, and how this experience has shaped her family's life ever since.Our goal here is not to retry the case, challenge the courts, or act as investigators. We're not a courtroom, and we're not presenting new evidence. This is a conversation. We rely on publicly reported information to outline the timeline, and we focus on the human side of a process that is often reduced to headlines, documents, and soundbites.This episode deals with difficult subject matter and real loss. We encourage listeners to approach it with the understanding that this is one family's perspective on events that have already been adjudicated in court, while legal processes continue to unfold.As always, we try to ask honest questions, listen carefully, and give space to stories that are complicated, emotional, and not easily summarized.Thank you for listening.Cheers,m&t

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THE DAILY TOTTENHAM NEWS HEADLINES: Mauricio Pochettino, Micky van de Ven, David, Frank's Future (With Craig Dearman)

Spurs Chat: Discussing all Things Tottenham Hotspur: Hosted by Chris Cowlin: The Daily Tottenham/Spurs Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 23, 2026 15:55

Spurs Chat: Discussing all Things Tottenham Hotspur: Hosted by Chris Cowlin: The Daily Tottenham/Spurs Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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#75 - Christian-Jewish Kinship and Theology: Dan Hummel on Christian Zionism

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 21, 2026 67:19

David Frank and TJ talked with historian Dr. Dan Hummel about why many Evangelical Christians support the modern state of Israel—and its implications for kinship between Christians and Jews. Dan traces the theological roots of Christian Zionism, the rise of dispensational theology, and some political and social effects we see today. We also covered how Christians have related to Jewish communities more broadly, and what kinship can or should look like for us, going forward.★ About Our GuestDaniel G. Hummel is the director of the Lumen Center in Madison, WI and a research fellow in the History Department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He received his PhD in American Religious History from UW-Madison. He is the author of The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism: How the Evangelical Battle Over the End Times Shaped a Nation (Eerdmans, 2023) and *Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli Relations* (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2019). You can also find him at www.danielghummel.com.—★ Timestamps(00:00) #75 - Christian-Jewish Kinship and Theology: Dan Hummel on Christian Zionism(03:24) Dan's history with Israel and Evangelicals(09:50) Ask an academic: define “evangelical”(13:47) Ask an academic: define “Christian Zionism”(17:31) Christian Zionism goes back to the 16th century(20:54) What IS dispensationalism?(25:13) Dispensationalism: So, is God a polygamist?(28:08) What does “supporting Israel” mean to Christian Zionists?(33:04) Zionism also relates: Judeo-Christian values, anti-Islam, American politics(39:21) What theology is needed, to be pro-peace for Israel/Palestine? (47:27) How can, and should, Christians think about their relationship to Jews? (01:00:50) Final thoughts: What we hold sacred—★ Links and References* The “Bebbington Quadrilateral” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Bebbington* For some of the political dynamics to Christian Zionism, see Dr. Hummel's article in New Lines Magazine on the political unrest in Israel, pre-Oct 7: newlinesmag.com/argument/israels-current-crisis-exposes-christian-zionisms-contradictory-ideals* For some theological and interfaith dimensions of Christian Zionism, see Dr. Hummel's 2018 essay for Aeon: aeon.co/essays/christian-zionism-the-interfaith-movement-hiding-in-plain-sight* G. Douglas Young, the founder of Bridges for Peace, a prominent Christian Zionist organization, wrote The Bride and the Wife (1960).—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support || Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship—★ Credits || Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, gavinpopkenart.com ★ Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

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HoRe: David Frank

Host Reportéra

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 19, 2025 82:32

Kolem nás se dějí divné, zcela nevysvětlitelné jevy. Možná jde o UFO, ale raději jim říkejme UAP.O astronomii a případných mimozemských civilizacích se nakladatel David Frank zajímal od útlého dětství v časech normalizace. Už jako šestiletý prvňák napsal první z mnoha sci-fi povídek. V dospělosti ho konkrétně UFO coby sporné téma přestávalo zajímat, ale to se zásadně změnilo po nečekaných odhaleních z roku 2017. Hovoří o tom v dalším díle podcastu Host Reportéra.„Nejde jen o mě,“ vysvětluje, „zájem se obnovil v celém světě, Spojenými státy počínaje. Tehdejší závažná odhalení způsobila, že UFO přestalo být považováno za okrajovou konspiraci a začala naopak éra, kdy je jeho výzkum seriózním bezpečnostním a vědeckým problémem, ke kterému se například vláda USA oficiálně přiznává.“Okamžitě došlo ke změně v terminologii. Namísto podezřelého termínu UFO se dnes na vědecké a politické půdě používá jiná zkratka: UAP: Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, tedy neidentifikované anomální jevy.„Přesně před osmi lety publikoval New York Times článek,“ vysvětluje David Frank v podcastu Host Reportéra, „který poprvé seriózně a doloženě informoval o tom, že Pentagon tajně financoval program, systematicky zkoumající nevysvětlené letecké jevy.“Američané tehdy uznali pravost několika zvláštních videí, pořízených vojenskými piloty. Jsou na nich zřetelně vidět objekty bez viditelného pohonu, ale s extrémní akcelerací a pohybující se způsoby, které neodpovídají známé aerodynamice.„Ano,“ připouští David Frank v podcastu, kde tato videa podrobně rozebírá, „řada jevů se nakonec jistě vysvětlí, ale některé těžko. Dnes už jsem tedy ve fázi, že kdybych si měl vsadit, tak řeknu, že tady sami rozhodně nejsme.“David Frank letos ve svém nakladatelství vydal americký bestseller Naléhavé, v němž o dlouho utajovaném pátrání Pentagonu po UFO píše někdejší šéf tohoto vojenského programu Luis Elizondo.

united states new york times ufos pentagon ano uap nam dnes jsou ameri spojen nejde hore kolem luis elizondo nal okam hovo david frank pentagonu

Episode 353 – Unstoppable Comedian with Greg Schwem

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 15, 2025 69:38

You are in for a real treat on this episode. My guest this time is Greg Schwem. Greg is a corporate comedian. What is a corporate comedian? You probably can imagine that his work has to do with corporations, and you would be right. Greg will explain much better than I can. Mr. Schwem began his career as a TV journalist but eventually decided to take up what he really wanted to do, be a comedian. The story of how he evolved is quite fascinating by any standard. Greg has done comedy professionally since 1989. He speaks today mostly to corporate audiences. He will tell us how he does his work. It is quite interesting to hear how he has learned to relate to his audiences. As you will discover as Greg and I talk, we often work in the same way to learn about our audiences and thus how we get to relate to them. Greg has written three books. His latest one is entitled “Turning Gut Punches into Punch Lines: A Comedian's Journey Through Cancer, Divorce and Other Hilarious Stuff”. As Greg says, “Don't worry, it's not one of those whiny, ‘woe is me,' self- serving books. Instead, it's a hilarious account of me living the words I've been preaching to my audiences: You can always find humor in every situation, even the tough ones. Greg offers many interesting observations as he discusses his career and how he works. I think we all can find significant lessons we can use from his remarks. About the Guest: Hi! I'm Greg Schwem. a Chicago-based business humor speaker and MC who HuffPost calls “Your boss's favorite comedian.” I've traveled the world providing clean, customized laughs to clients such as Microsoft, IBM, McDonald's and even the CIA. I also write the bi-weekly Humor Hotel column for the Chicago Tribune syndicate. I believe every corporate event needs humor. As I often tell clients, “When times are good, people want to laugh. When times are bad, people need to laugh.” One Fortune 500 client summed things up perfectly, saying “You were fantastic and just what everybody needed during these times.” In September 2024 I released my third and most personal book, Turning Gut Punches into Punch Lines: A Comedian's Journey Through Cancer, Divorce and Other Hilarious Stuff. Don't worry, it's not one of those whiny, “woe is me,” self-serving books. Instead, it's a hilarious account of me living the words I've been preaching to my audiences: You can always find humor in every situation, even the tough ones. You can pick up a copy at Amazon or select book stores. Ways to connect with Greg: Website: www.gregschwem.com YouTube: www.youtube.com/gregschwem LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/gregschwem Instagram: www.instagram.com/gregschwem X: www.x.com/gregschwem About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:16 Hi everyone, and welcome to unstoppable mindset. Today we are going to definitely have some fun. I'll tell you about our guests in a moment, but first, I want to tell you about me. That'll take an hour or so. I am Michael Hingson, your host, and you're listening to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And I don't know, we may get inclusion or diversity into this, but our guest is Greg Schwem. Greg used to be a TV reporter, now he's a comedian, not sure which is funnier, but given some of the reporters I've seen on TV, they really should go into tonight club business. But anyway, Greg, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. I really appreciate you being here and taking the time Greg Schwem ** 02:04 Well, Michael, it is an honor to be included on your show. I'm really looking forward to the next hour of conversation. I Speaker 1 ** 02:10 told Greg a little while ago, one of my major life ambitions that I never got to do was to go to a Don Rickles concert and sit in the front row so that hopefully he would pick on me, so that I could say, Yeah, I saw you once on TV, and I haven't been able to see since. What do you think of that? You hockey puck, but I never got to do it. So very disappointed. But everybody has bucket list moments, everybody has, but they don't get around to I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. Well, the other one is, I love to pick on Mike Wallace. I did a radio show for six years opposite him in 60 minutes, and I always love to say that Wallace really had criminal tendencies, because he started out being an announcer in radio and he announced things like The Green Hornet and the Sky King and other shows where they had a lot of criminals. So I just figured he had to be associated with criminals somewhere in his life. Of course, everybody picked on him, and he had broad shoulders. And I again, I regret I never got to to meet him, which is sort of disappointing. But I did get to meet Peter Falk. That was kind of fun. Greg Schwem ** 03:15 Mike Wallace to Peter Falk. Nice transition there. I know. Michael Hingson ** 03:21 Well I am really glad you're with us. So why don't we start? We'll start with the serious part. Why don't you tell us, kind of about the early Greg schwim and growing up and all that sort of stuff, just to set the stage, as it were, Greg Schwem ** 03:34 how far back you want to go? You want to go back to Little League, or you want to Speaker 1 ** 03:37 just, oh, start at the beginning, a long time ago, right? I was a Greg Schwem ** 03:41 very strange child. No, I you. You obviously introduced me as a as a comedian, and that is my full time job. And you also said that I was a former journalist, and that is my professional career. Yes, I went from, as I always like to say, I went from depressing people all day long, to making them laugh. And that's, that's kind of what I did. I always did want to be I majored in Journalism at Northwestern University, good journalism school. Originally, I always wanted to be a television reporter. That was as a professional career I was, I dabbled in comedy. Started when I was 16. That is the first time I ever got on stage at my school, my high school, and then at a comedy club. I was there one of the first comedy clubs in Chicago, a place called the comedy cottage. It was in the suburb of beautiful, beautiful suburb of Rosemont, Illinois, and they were one of the very, very first full time comedy clubs in the nation. And as a 16 year old kid, I actually got on stage and did five minutes here and five minutes there. And thought I was, I was hot stuff, but I never, ever thought I would do it for a living. I thought comedy would always be just a hobby. And I. Especially when I went to college, and I thought, okay, Northwestern is pretty good school, pretty expensive school. I should actually use my degree. And I did. I moved down to Florida, wrote for a newspaper called The Palm Beach post, which, don't let that title fool you. It's Palm Beach was a very small segment of of the area that it was, that it served, but I did comedy on the side, and just because I moved down there, I didn't know anybody, so I hung out at comedy clubs just to have something to do. And little by little, comedy in the late 80s, it exploded. Exploded. There were suddenly clubs popping up everywhere, and you were starting to get to know guys that were doing these clubs and were starting to get recognition for just being comedians. And one of them opened up a very, very good Club opened up about 10 minutes from my apartment in West Palm Beach, and I hung out there and started to get more stage time, and eventually started to realize at the same time that I was getting better as a comedian, I was becoming more disillusioned as a journalist in terms of what my bosses wanted me to report on and the tone they wanted me to use. And I just decided that I would I would just never be able to live with myself if I didn't try it, if I didn't take the the plunge into comedy, and that's what I did in 1989 and I've been doing it ever since. And my career has gone in multiple directions, as I think it needs to. If you're going to be in show business and sustain a career in show business, you have to wear a lot of different hats, which I feel like I've done. Michael Hingson ** 06:40 So tell me more about that. What does that mean exactly? Greg Schwem ** 06:43 Well, I mean, I started out as a what you would pretty much if somebody said, If you heard somebody say, I'm a comedian, they would envision some guy that just went to comedy clubs all the time, and that's what I did. I was just a guy that traveled by car all over the Midwest and the Southeast primarily, and did comedy clubs, but I quickly realized that was kind of a going nowhere way to attack it, to do comedy unless you were incredibly lucky, because there were so many guys doing it and so many clubs, and I just didn't see a future in it, and I felt like I had to separate myself from the pack a little bit. And I was living in Chicago, which is where I'm from, and still, still exist. Still reside in Chicago, and I started to get involved with a company that did live trade show presentations. So if you've ever been on a trade show floor and you see people, they're mostly actors and actresses that wear a headset and deliver a spiel, a pitch, like every, every twice an hour, about some company, some new product, and so forth. And I did that, and I started to write material about what I was seeing on trade show floors and putting it into my stand up act, stuff about business, stuff about technology, because I was Hawking a lot of new computers and things like that. This was the mid 90s when technology was exploding, and I started to put this into my stand up act. And then I'd have people come up to me afterwards and say, hey, you know those jokes you did about computers and tech support, if you could come down to our office, you know, we're having a golf tournament, we're having a Christmas party, we would love to hear that material. And little by little, I started transitioning my act into doing shows for the corporate market. I hooked up with a corporate agent, or the corporate agent heard about me, and started to open a lot of doors for me in terms of working for very large corporations, and that's pretty much what I've been doing. I stopped working clubs, and I transitioned, instead of being a comedian, I became a corporate humor speaker. And that's what I do, primarily to this day, is to speak at business conferences. Just kind of get people to loosen up, get them to laugh about what they do all day without without making it sound like I'm belittling what they do. And also when I'm not doing that, I work about eight to 10 weeks a year on cruise ships, performing for cruise audiences. So that's a nice getaway. Speaker 1 ** 09:18 It's interesting since I mentioned Don Rickles earlier, years ago, I saw an interview that he did with Donahue, and one of the things that Don Rickles said, and after he said it, I thought about it. He said, I really don't want to pick on anyone who's going to be offended by me picking on them. He said, I try to watch really carefully, so that if it looks like somebody's getting offended, I'll leave them alone, because that's not what this is all about. It isn't about abusing people. It's about trying to get people to have fun, and if somebody's offended, I don't want to to pick on them, and I've heard a number of albums and other things with him and just. Noticed that that was really true. He wouldn't pick on someone unless they could take it and had a lot of fun with it. And I thought that was absolutely interesting, because that certainly wasn't, of course, the rep that he had and no, but it was Greg Schwem ** 10:16 true. It is, and it doesn't take long to see as a as a comedian, when you're looking at an audience member and you're talking to them, it, you can tell very quickly, Are they enjoying this? Are they enjoying being the center of attention? A lot of people are, or are they uncomfortable with it? Now, I don't know that going in. I mean, I you know, of course. And again, that's a very small portion of my show is to talk to the audience, but it is something particularly today. I think audiences want to be more involved. I think they enjoy you talk you. Some of these, the new comedians in their 20s and 30s and so forth. Them, some of them are doing nothing, but what they call crowd work. So they're just doing 45 minutes of talking to the audience, which can be good and can be rough too, because you're working without a net. But I'm happy to give an audience a little bit of that. But I also have a lot of stuff that I want to say too. I mean, I work very hard coming up with material and and refining it, and I want to talk about what's going on in my life, too. So I don't want the audience to be the entire show, right? Speaker 1 ** 11:26 And and they shouldn't be, because it isn't about that. But at the same time, it is nice to involve them. I find that as a keynote and public speaker, I find that true as well, though, is that audiences do like to be involved. And I do some things right at the outset of most talks to involve people, and also in involving them. I want to get them to last so that I start to draw them in, because later, when I tell the September 11 story, which isn't really a humorous thing. Directly, Greg Schwem ** 12:04 i know i Good luck. I'm spinning 911 to make it I don't think I've ever heard anybody say, by the way, I was trapped in a building. Stick with me. It's kind of cute. It's got a funny ending. And Speaker 1 ** 12:20 that's right, and it is hard I can, I can say humorous things along the way in telling the story, but, sure, right, but, but clearly it's not a story that, in of itself, is humorous. But what I realized over the years, and it's really dawned on me in the last four or five years is we now have a whole generation of people who have absolutely no memory of September 11 because they were children or they weren't even born yet. And I believe that my job is to not only talk about it, but literally to draw them into the building and have them walk down the stairs with me, and I have to be descriptive in a very positive way, so that they really are part of what's going on. And the reality is that I do hear people or people come up and say, we were with you when you were going down the stairs. And I think that's my job, because the reality is that we've got to get people to understand there are lessons to be learned from September 11, right? And the only real way to do that is to attract the audience and bring them in. And I think probably mostly, I'm in a better position to do that than most people, because I'm kind of a curious soul, being blind and all that, but it allows me to to draw them in and and it's fun to do that, actually. And I, and Greg Schwem ** 13:52 I gotta believe, I mean, obviously I wasn't there, Michael, but I gotta believe there were moments of humor in people, a bunch of people going down the stairs. Sure, me, you put people get it's like, it's like when a bunch of people are in an elevator together, you know, I mean, there's I, when I look around and I try to find something humorous in a crowded and it's probably the same thing now, obviously it, you know, you got out in time. But I and, you know, don't that's the hotel phone, which I just hung up so but I think that I can totally see where you're going from, where, if you're if you're talking to people who have no recollection of this, have no memory where you're basically educating them on the whole event. I think you then you have the opportunity to tell the story in whatever way you see fit. And I think that however you choose to do it is there's no wrong way to do it, I guess is what I'm trying to get at. Speaker 1 ** 14:55 Well, yeah, I think the wrong way is to be two. Graphic and morbid and morbid, but one of the things that I talk about, for example, is that a colleague of mine who was with me, David Frank, at about the 50th floor, suddenly said, Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And as as I tell the audience, typically, I as as you heard my introduction at the beginning, I have a secondary teaching credential. And one of the things that you probably don't know about teachers is that there's a secret course that every teacher takes called Voice 101, how to yell at students and and so what I tell people is that when David said that, I just said in my best teacher voice, stop it, David, if Roselle and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he told me later that that brought him out of his funk, and he ended up walking a floor below me and shouting up to me everything he saw. And it was just mainly, everything is clear, like I'm on floor 48 he's on 47/47 floor. Everything is good here, and what I have done for the past several years in telling that part of the story is to say David, in reality, probably did more to keep people calm and focused as we went down the stairs than anyone else, because anyone within the sound of his voice heard someone who was focused and sounded okay. You know, hey, I'm on the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is not stopping. And it it helps people understand that we all had to do what we could to keep everyone from not panicking. And it almost happened a few times that people did, but we worked at it. But the i The idea is that it helps draw people in, and I think that's so important to do for my particular story is to draw them in and have them walk down the stairs with me, which is what I do, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Now I'm curious about something that keeps coming up. I hear it every so often, public speaker, Speaker experts and people who are supposedly the great gurus of public speaking say you shouldn't really start out with a joke. And I've heard that so often, and I'm going give me a break. Well, I think, I think it depends, yeah, I think Greg Schwem ** 17:33 there's two schools of thought to that. I think if you're going to start out with a joke, it better be a really good one, or something that you either has been battle tested, because if it doesn't work now, you, you know, if you're hoping for a big laugh, now you're saying, Well, you're a comedian, what do you do? You know, I mean, I, I even, I just sort of work my way into it a little bit. Yeah, and I'm a comedian, so, and, you know, it's funny, Michael, I will get, I will get. I've had CEOs before say to me, Hey, you know, I've got to give this presentation next week. Give me a joke I can tell to everybody. And I always decline. I always it's like, I don't need that kind of pressure. And it's like, I can, I can, I can tell you a funny joke, but, Michael Hingson ** 18:22 but you telling the Greg Schwem ** 18:23 work? Yeah, deliver it. You know, I can't deliver it for you. Yeah? And I think that's what I also, you know, on that note, I've never been a big fan of Stand Up Comedy classes, and you see them all popping up all over the place. Now, a lot of comedy clubs will have them, and usually the you take the class, and the carrot at the end is you get to do five minutes at a comedy club right now, if that is your goal, if you're somebody who always like, Gosh, I wonder what it would like be like to stand up on stage and and be a comedian for five minutes. That's something I really like to try. By all means, take the class, all right. But if you think that you're going to take this class and you're going to emerge a much funnier person, like all of a sudden you you weren't funny, but now you are, don't take the class, yeah? And I think, sadly, I think that a lot of people sign up for these classes thinking the latter, thinking that they will all of a sudden become, you know, a comedian. And it doesn't work that way. I'm sorry you cannot teach unfunny people to be funny. Yeah, some of us have the gift of it, and some of us don't. Some of us are really good with our hands, and just know how to build stuff and how to look at things and say, I can do that. And some of us, myself included, definitely do not. You know, I think you can teach people to be more comfortable, more comfortable in front of an audience and. Correct. I think that is definitely a teachable thing, but I don't think that you can teach people to be funnier Speaker 1 ** 20:10 and funnier, and I agree with that. I tend to be amazed when I keep hearing that one of the top fears in our world is getting up in front of an audience and talking with them, because people really don't understand that audiences, whatever you're doing, want you to succeed, and they're not against you, but we have just conditioned ourselves collectively that speaking is something to be afraid of? Greg Schwem ** 20:41 Yes, I think, though it's, I'm sure, that fear, though, of getting up in front of people has only probably been exacerbated and been made more intense because now everybody in the audience has a cell phone and to and to be looking out at people and to see them on their phones. Yeah, you're and yet, you prepped all day long. You've been nervous. You've been you probably didn't sleep the night before. If you're one of these people who are afraid of speaking in public, yeah, and then to see people on their phones. You know, it used to bother me. It doesn't anymore, because it's just the society we live in. I just, I wish, I wish people could put their phones down and just enjoy laughing for 45 minutes. But unfortunately, our society can't do that anymore, so I just hope that I can get most of them to stop looking at it. Speaker 1 ** 21:32 I don't make any comments about it at the beginning, but I have, on a number of occasions, been delivering a speech, and I hear a cell phone ring, and I'll stop and go, Hello. And I don't know for sure what the person with the cell phone does, but by the same token, you know they really shouldn't be on their phone and and it works out, okay, nobody's ever complained about it. And when I just say hello, or I'll go Hello, you don't say, you know, and things like that, but, but I don't, I don't prolong it. I'll just go back to what I was talking about. But I remember, when I lived in New Jersey, Sandy Duncan was Peter Pan in New York. One night she was flying over the audience, and there was somebody on his cell phone, and she happened to be going near him, and she just kicked the phone out of his hand. And I think that's one of the things that started Broadway in saying, if you have a cell phone, turn it off. And those are the announcements that you hear at the beginning of any Broadway performance today. Greg Schwem ** 22:39 Unfortunately, people don't abide by that. I know you're still hearing cell phones go off, yeah, you know, in Broadway productions at the opera or wherever, so people just can't and there you go. There that just shows you're fighting a losing battle. Speaker 1 ** 22:53 Yeah, it's just one of those things, and you got to cope with it. Greg Schwem ** 22:58 What on that note, though, there was, I will say, if I can interrupt real quick, there was one show I did where nobody had their phone. It was a few years ago. I spoke at the CIA. I spoke for some employees of the CIA. And this might, this might freak people out, because you think, how is it that America's covert intelligence agency, you think they would be on their phones all the time. No, if you work there, you cannot have your phone on you. And so I had an audience of about 300 people who I had their total attention because there was no other way to they had no choice but to listen to me, and it was wonderful. It was just a great show, and I it was just so refreshing. Yeah, Speaker 1 ** 23:52 and mostly I don't hear cell phones, but they do come up from time to time. And if they do, then you know it happens. Now my one of my favorite stories is I once spoke in Maryland at the Department of Defense, which anybody who knows anything knows that's the National Security Agency, but they call it the Department of Defense, as if we don't know. And my favorite story is that I had, at the time, a micro cassette recorder, and it died that morning before I traveled to Fort Meade, and I forgot to just throw it away, and it was in my briefcase. So I got to the fort, they searched, apparently, didn't find it, but on the way out, someone found it. They had to get a bird Colonel to come to decide what to do with it. I said, throw it away. And they said, No, we can't do that. It's yours. And they they decided it didn't work, and they let me take it and I threw it away. But it was so, so funny to to be at the fort and see everybody running around crazy. See, what do we do with this micro cassette recorder? This guy's been here for an hour. Yeah. So it's it. You know, all sorts of things happen. What do you think about you know, there's a lot of discussion about comedians who use a lot of foul language in their shows, and then there are those who don't, and people seem to like the shock value of that. Greg Schwem ** 25:25 Yeah, I'm very old school in that. I guess my short answer is, No, I've never, ever been one of those comedians. Ever I do a clean show, I actually learned my lesson very early on. I think I think that I think comedians tend to swear because when they first start out, out of nerves, because I will tell you that profanity does get laughter. And I've always said, if you want to, if you want to experiment on that, have a comedian write a joke, and let's say he's got two shows that night. Let's say he's got an eight o'clock show and a 10 o'clock show. So let's say he does the joke in the eight o'clock and it's, you know, the cadence is bumper, bump up, bump up, bump up, punch line. Okay, now let's and let's see how that plays. Now let's now he does the 10 o'clock show and it's bumper, bump up, bump up F and Okay, yeah, I pretty much guarantee you the 10 o'clock show will get a bigger laugh. Okay? Because he's sort of, it's like the audience is programmed like, oh, okay, we're supposed to laugh at that now. And I think a lot of comedians think, Aha, I have just discovered how to be successful as a comedian. I will just insert the F word in front of every punch line, and you can kind of tell what comedians do that and what comedians I mean. I am fine with foul language, but have some jokes in there too. Don't make them. Don't make the foul word, the joke, the joke, right? And I can say another thing nobody has ever said to me, I cannot hire you because you're too clean. I've never gotten that. And all the years I've been doing this, and I know there's lots of comedians who who do work blue, who have said, you know, who have been turned down for that very reason. So I believe, if you're a comedian, the only way to get better is to work any place that will have you. Yeah, and you can't, so you might as well work clean so you can work any place that will have you, as opposed to being turned away. Speaker 1 ** 27:30 Well, and I, and I know what, what happened to him and all that, but at the same time, I grew up listening to Bill Cosby and the fact that he was always clean. And, yeah, I understand everything that happened, but you can't deny and you can't forget so many years of humor and all the things that that he brought to the world, and the joy he brought to the world in so many ways. Greg Schwem ** 27:57 Oh, yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And he Yeah, he worked everywhere. Jay Leno is another one. I mean, Jay Leno is kind of on the same wavelength as me, as far as don't let the profanity become the joke. You know, Eddie Murphy was, you know, was very foul. Richard Pryor, extremely foul. I but they also, prior, especially, had very intelligent material. I mean, you can tell and then if you want to insert your F bombs and so forth, that's fine, but at least show me that you're trying. At least show me that you came in with material in addition to the Speaker 1 ** 28:36 foul language. The only thing I really have to say about all that is it? Jay Leno should just stay away from cars, but that's another story. Greg Schwem ** 28:43 Oh, yeah, it's starting to Greg Schwem ** 28:47 look that way. Yeah, it Michael Hingson ** 28:49 was. It was fun for a while, Jay, but yeah, there's just two. It's like, Harrison Ford and plains. Yeah, same concept. At some point you're like, this isn't working out. Now I submit that living here in Victorville and just being out on the streets and being driven around and all that, I am firmly convinced, given the way most people drive here, that the bigoted DMV should let me have a license, because I am sure I can drive as well as most of the clowns around here. Yeah, so when they drive, I have no doubt. Oh, gosh. Well, you know, you switched from being a TV journalist and so on to to comedy. Was it a hard choice? Was it really difficult to do, or did it just seem like this is the time and this is the right thing to do. I was Greg Schwem ** 29:41 both, you know, it was hard, because I really did enjoy my job and I liked, I liked being a TV news reporter. I liked, I liked a job that was different every day once you got in there, because you didn't know what they were going to send you out to do. Yes, you had. To get up and go to work every day and so forth. So there's a little bit of, you know, there's a little bit of the mundane, just like there is in any job, but once you were there, I liked, just never known what the day would bring, right? And and I, I think if I'd stayed with it, I think I think I could have gone pretty far, particularly now, because the now it's more people on TV are becoming more entertainers news people are becoming, yeah, they are. A lot of would be, want to be comedians and so forth. And I don't particularly think that's appropriate, but I agree. But so it was hard to leave, but it gets back to what I said earlier. At some point, you got to say, I was seeing comedians making money, and I was thinking, gosh, you know, if they're making money at this I I'm not hilarious, but I know I'm funnier than that guy. Yeah, I'm funnier than her, so why not? And I was young, and I was single, and I thought, if I if I don't try it now, I never will. And, and I'll bet there's just some hilarious people out there, yeah, who who didn't ever, who just were afraid Michael Hingson ** 31:14 to take that chance, and they wouldn't take the leap, yeah, Greg Schwem ** 31:16 right. And now they're probably kicking themselves, and I'm sure maybe they're very successful at what they do, but they're always going to say, what if, if I only done this? I don't ever, I don't, ever, I never, ever wanted to say that. Yeah, Speaker 1 ** 31:31 well, and there's, there's something to be said for being brave and stepping out and doing something that you don't expect, or that you didn't expect, or that you weren't sure how it was going to go, but if you don't try, then you're never going to know just how, how much you could really accomplish and how much you can really do. And I think that the creative people, whatever they're being creative about, are the people who do step out and are willing to take a chance. Greg Schwem ** 31:59 Yeah, yeah. And I told my kids that too. You know, it's just like, if it's something that you're passionate about, do it. Just try it. If it doesn't work out, then at least you can say I tried Speaker 1 ** 32:09 it and and if it doesn't work out, then you can decide, what do I need to do to figure out why it didn't work out, or is it just not me? I want Greg Schwem ** 32:18 to keep going? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 ** 32:21 So what is the difference between being a nightclub comedian and a corporate comedian? Because they are somewhat different. I think I know the answer. But what would you say that the differences between them? I think Greg Schwem ** 32:33 the biggest thing is the audiences. I think when you when you are a nightclub comedian, you are working in front of people who are there to be entertained. Yeah, they, they paid money for that. That's what they're expecting. They, they, at some point during the day, they said, Hey, let's, let's go laugh tonight. That's what we really want to do when you're working in front of a corporate audiences. That's not necessarily the case. They are there. I primarily do business conferences and, you know, association meetings and so forth. And I'm just one cog in the wheel of a whole day's worth of meetings are, for the most part, very dry and boring, maybe certainly necessary educational. They're learning how to do their job better or something. And then you have a guy like me come in, and people aren't always ready to laugh, yeah, despite the fact that they probably need to, but they just they're not always in that mindset. And also the time of day. I mean, I do a lot of shows at nine in the morning. I do shows after lunch, right before lunch. I actually do very few shows in the evening, believe it or not. And so then you you have to, you kind of have to, in the while you're doing your act or your presentation or your speech, as I call it, you kind of have to let them know that it is okay. What you're doing is okay, and they should be okay with laughing. They shouldn't be looking around the whole time wondering if other people are laughing. You know, can I, can I? Can I tell you a quick story about how I drive that point home. Why not? Yeah, it's, I'll condense it into like five minutes. I mentioned that I worked on that I work on cruise ships occasionally, and I one night I was performing, and it was the first night of the cruise. And if anybody's ever been on a cruise, note, the first night, first night entertainers don't like the first night because people are tired. You know, they're they're a little edgy because they've been traveling all day. They're they're confused because they're not really sure where they're going on a ship. And the ones that have got it figured out usually over serve themselves because they're on vacation. So you put all that, so I'm doing my show on the first. Night, and it's going very well. And about five, six minutes in, I do a joke. Everybody laughs. Everybody shuts up. And from the back of the room in total darkness, I hear hat just like that. And I'm like, All right, you know, probably over served. So the rule of comedy is that everybody gets like. I was like, I'll let it go once, yeah. So I just kind of looked off in that direction, didn't say anything. Kept going with my active going with my act. About 10 minutes later, same thing happens. I tell a joke. Everybody laughs. Everybody shuts up. Hat now I'm like, Okay, I have got to, I've got to address the elephant in the room. So I think I just made some comment, like, you know, I didn't know Roseanne Barr was on this cruise, you know, because that was like the sound of the Yeah. Okay, everybody laugh. Nothing happened about five minutes later. It happens a third time. And now I'm just like, this is gonna stop. I'm going to put a stop to this. And I just fired off. I can't remember, like, three just like, hey man, you know you're you're just a little behind everybody else in this show and probably in life too, that, you know, things like that, and it never happened again. So I'm like, okay, mission accomplished on my part. Comedians love it when we can shut up somebody like that. Anyway. Show's over, I am out doing a meet and greet. Some guy comes up to me and he goes, hey, hey, you know that kid you were making fun of is mentally handicapped. And now, of course, I don't know this, but out of the corner of my eye, I see from the other exit a man pushing a son, his son in a wheelchair out of the showroom. And I'm just like, Oh, what have I done? And yeah. And of course, when you're on a cruise, you're you're on a cruise. When you're a cruise ship entertainer, you have to live with your audience. So I couldn't hide. I spent like the next three days, and it seemed like wherever I was, the man and his son in the wheelchair were nearby. And finally, on the fourth day, I think was, I was waiting for an elevator. Again, 3500 people on this ship, okay, I'm waiting for an elevator. The elevator door opens. Guess who are the only two people the elevator, the man and his son. And I can't really say I'll wait for the next one. So I get on, and I said to this the father, I said, I just want you to know I had no idea. You know, I'm so sorry. I can't see back there, this kind of thing. And the dad looks at me. He puts his hand up to stop me, and he points to me, and he goes, I thought you were hysterical. And it was, not only was it relief, but it kind of, it's sort of a lesson that if you think something is funny, you should laugh at it. Yeah. And I think sometimes in corporate America, my point in this. I think sometimes when you do these corporate shows, I think that audience members forget that. I think very busy looking around to see if their immediate boss thinks it's funny, and eventually everybody's looking at the CEO to see if they're like, you know, I think if you're doing it that way, if that's the way you're you're approaching humor. You're doing yourself a disservice, if right, stopping yourself from laughing at something that you think is funny. Speaker 1 ** 38:09 I do think that that all too often the problem with meetings is that we as a as a country, we in corporations, don't do meetings, right anyway, for example, early on, I heard someone at a convention of the National Federation of the Blind say he was the new executive director of the American Foundation for the Blind, and he said, I have instituted a policy, no Braille, no meetings. And what that was all about was to say, if you're going to have a meeting, you need to make sure that all the documentation is accessible to those who aren't going to read the print. I take it further and say you shouldn't be giving out documentation during the meeting. And you can use the excuse, well, I got to get the latest numbers and all that. And my point is, you shouldn't be giving out documentation at a meeting, because the meeting is for people to communicate and interact with each other. And if you're giving out papers and so on, what are people going to do? They're going to read that, and they're not going to listen to the speakers. They're not going to listen to the other people. And we do so many things like that, we've gotten into a habit of doing things that become so predictable, but also make meetings very boring, because who wants to look at the papers where you can be listening to people who have a lot more constructive and interesting things to say anyway? Greg Schwem ** 39:36 Yeah, yeah. I think, I think COVID definitely changed, some for the some for the better and some for the worse. I think that a lot of things that were done at meetings COVID and made us realize a lot of that stuff could be done virtually, that you didn't have to just have everybody sit and listen to people over and over and over again. Speaker 1 ** 39:58 But unless you're Donald Trump. Up. Yeah, that's another story. Greg Schwem ** 40:02 Yes, exactly another podcast episode. But, yeah, I do think also that. I think COVID changed audiences. I think, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about crowd work, right, and audiences wanting to be more involved. I think COVID precipitated that, because, if you think about it, Michael, for two and a half years during COVID, our sole source of entertainment was our phone, right? Which meant that we were in charge of the entertainment experience. You don't like something, swipe left, scroll down, scroll, scroll, scroll, find something else. You know, that kind of thing. I'm not I'm not entertained in the next four or five seconds. So I'm going to do this. And I think when live entertainment returned, audiences kind of had to be retrained a little bit, where they had to learn to sit and listen and wait for the entertainment to come to them. And granted, it might not happen immediately. It might not happen in the first five seconds, but you have to just give give people like me a chance. It will come to you. It will happen, but it might not be on your timetable, Speaker 1 ** 41:13 right? Well, and I think that is all too true for me. I didn't find didn't find COVID to be a great inconvenience, because I don't look at the screen anyway, right? So in a sense, for me, COVID wasn't that much of a change, other than not being in an office or not being physically at a meeting, and so I was listening to the meeting on the computer, and that has its nuances. Like you don't necessarily get the same information about how everyone around you is reacting, but, but it didn't bother me, I think, nearly as much as it did everyone else who has to look at everyone. Of course, I have no problems picking on all those people as well, because what I point out is that that disabilities has to be redefined, because every one of you guys has your own disability. You're light dependent, and you don't do well when there's dark, when, when the dark shows up and and we now have an environment where Thomas Edison invented the electric light bulb, and we've spent the last 147 years doing everything we can to make sure that light is pretty ubiquitous, but it doesn't change a thing when suddenly the power goes out and you don't have immediate access to light. So that's as much a disability as us light, independent people who don't Greg Schwem ** 42:36 care about that, right? Right? I hear, I agree, but it is but Speaker 1 ** 42:41 it is interesting and and it is also important that we all understand each other and are willing to tolerate the fact that there are differences in people, and we need to recognize that with whatever we're doing. 42:53 Yeah, I agree. Speaker 1 ** 42:57 What do you think about so today, we have obviously a really fractured environment and fractured country, and everyone's got their own opinions, and nobody wants to talk about anything, especially politics wise. How do you think that's all affecting comedy and what you get to do and what other people are doing? Greg Schwem ** 43:18 Well, I think Pete, I think there's, there's multiple answers to that question too. I think, I think it makes people nervous, wondering what the minute a comedian on stage brings up politics, the minute he starts talking about a politician, whether it's our president, whether it's somebody else, you can sense a tension in the room a little bit, and it's, it's, I mean, it's funny. I, one of my best friends in comedy, got to open for another comedian at Carnegie Hall a couple of years ago, and I went to see him, and I'm sitting way up in the top, and he is just crushing it. And then at one point he he brought up, he decided to do an impression of Mitch McConnell, which he does very well. However, the minute he said, Mitch McConnell, I you could just sense this is Carnegie freaking Hall, and after the show, you know, he and I always like to dissect each other's shows. That's what comedians do. And I just said to him, I go. Why did you decide to insert Mitch McConnell in there? And I, and I didn't say it like, you moron, that was stupid, yeah, but I was genuinely curious. And he just goes, well, I just really like doing that bit, and I like doing that voice and so forth, but, and it's not like the show crashed and burned afterwards. No, he did the joke, and then he got out of it, and he went on to other stuff, and it was fine, but I think that people are just so on their guard now, yeah, and, and that's why, you know, you know Jay Leno always said he was an equal opportunity offender. I think you will do better with politics if you really want. Insert politics into your act. I think he would be better making fun of both sides. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. And I think too often comedians now use the the stage as kind of a Bully, bully pulpit, like I have microphone and you don't. I am now going to give you my take on Donald Trump or the Democrats or whatever, and I've always said, talk about anything you want on stage, but just remember, you're at a comedy club. People came to laugh. So is there a joke in here? Yeah, or are you just ranting because you gotta be careful. You have to get this off your chest, and your way is right. It's, it's, you know, I hate to say it, but that's, that's why podcast, no offense, Michael, yours, is not like this. But I think one of the reasons podcasters have gotten so popular is a lot of people, just a lot of podcast hosts see a podcast is a chance to just rant about whatever's on their mind. And it's amazing to me how many podcast hosts that are hosted by comedians have a second guy have a sidekick to basically laugh and agree with whatever that person says. I think Joe Rogan is a classic example, and he's one of the most popular ones. But, and I don't quite understand that, because you know, if you're a comedian, you you made the choice to work solo, right? So why do you need somebody else with you? Speaker 1 ** 46:33 I'm I'm fairly close to Leno. My remark is a little bit different. I'm not so much an equal opportunity offender as I am an equal opportunity abuser. I'll pick on both sides if politics comes into it at all, and it's and it's fun, and I remember when George W Bush was leaving the White House, Letterman said, Now we're not going to have anybody to joke about anymore. And everyone loved it. But still, I recognize that in the world today, people don't want to hear anything else. Don't confuse me with the facts or any of that, and it's so unfortunate, but it is the way it is, and so it's wiser to stay away from a lot of that, unless you can really break through the barrier, Greg Schwem ** 47:21 I think so. And I also think that people, one thing you have to remember, I think, is when people come to a comedy show, they are coming to be entertained. Yeah, they are coming to kind of escape from the gloom and doom that unfortunately permeates our world right now. You know? I mean, I've always said that if you, if you walked up to a comedy club on a Saturday night, and let's say there were 50 people waiting outside, waiting to get in, and you asked all 50 of them, what do you hope happens tonight? Or or, Why are you here? All right, I think from all 50 you would get I would just like to laugh, yeah, I don't think one of them is going to say, you know, I really hope that my opinions on what's happening in the Middle East get challenged right now, but he's a comedian. No one is going to say that. No, no. It's like, I hope I get into it with the comedian on stage, because he thinks this way about a woman's right to choose, and I think the other way. And I really, really hope that he and I will get into an argument about to the middle of the Speaker 1 ** 48:37 show. Yeah, yeah. That's not why people come? Greg Schwem ** 48:40 No, it's not. And I, unfortunately, I think again, I think that there's a lot of comedians that don't understand that. Yeah, again, talk about whatever you want on stage, but just remember that your your surroundings, you if you build yourself as a comedian, 48:56 make it funny. Yeah, be funny. Speaker 1 ** 49:00 Well, and nowadays, especially for for you, for me and so on, we're we're growing older and and I think you point out audiences are getting younger. How do you deal with that? Greg Schwem ** 49:12 Well, what I try to do is I a couple of things. I try to talk as much as I can about topics that are relevant to a younger generation. Ai being one, I, one of the things I do in my my show is I say, oh, you know, I I really wasn't sure how to start off. And when you're confused these days, you you turn to answer your questions. You turn to chat GPT, and I've actually written, you know, said to chat GPT, you know, I'm doing a show tonight for a group of construction workers who work in the Midwest. It's a $350 million company, and it says, try to be very specific. Give me a funny opening line. And of course, chat GPT always comes up with some. Something kind of stupid, which I then relate to the audience, and they love that, you know, they love that concept. So I think there's, obviously, there's a lot of material that you can do on generational differences, but I, I will say I am very, very aware that my audience is, for the most part, younger than me now, unless I want to spend the rest of my career doing you know, over 55 communities, not that they're not great laughers, but I also think there's a real challenge in being older than your audience and still being able to make them laugh. But I think you have to remember, like you said, there's there's people now that don't remember 911 that have no concept of it, yeah, so don't be doing references from, say, the 1980s or the early 1990s and then come off stage and go, Man, nobody that didn't hit at all. No one, no one. They're stupid. They don't get it. Well, no, they, they, it sounds they don't get it. It's just that they weren't around. They weren't around, right? So that's on you. Speaker 1 ** 51:01 One of the things that you know people ask me is if I will do virtual events, and I'll do virtual events, but I also tell people, the reason I prefer to do in person events is that I can sense what the audience is doing, how they're reacting and what they feel. If I'm in a room speaking to people, and I don't have that same sense if I'm doing something virtually, agreed same way. Now for me, at the same time, I've been doing this now for 23 years, so I have a pretty good idea in general, how to interact with an audience, to draw them in, even in a virtual environment, but I still tend to be a little bit more careful about it, and it's just kind of the way it is, you know, and you and you learn to deal with it well for you, have you ever had writer's block, and how did you deal with it? Greg Schwem ** 51:57 Yes, I have had writer's block. I don't I can't think of a single comedian who's never had writer's block, and if they say they haven't, I think they're lying when I have writer's block, the best way for me to deal with this and just so you know, I'm not the kind of comedian that can go that can sit down and write jokes. I can write stories. I've written three books, but I can't sit down and just be funny for an hour all by myself. I need interaction. I need communication. And I think when I have writer's block, I tend to go out and try and meet strangers and can engage them in conversation and find out what's going on with them. I mean, you mentioned about dealing with the younger audience. I am a big believer right now in talking to people who are half my age. I like doing that in social settings, because I just, I'm curious. I'm curious as to how they think. I'm curious as to, you know, how they spend money, how they save money, how what their hopes and dreams are for the future, what that kind of thing, and that's the kind of stuff that then I'll take back and try and write material about. And I think that, I think it's fun for me, and it's really fun to meet somebody who I'll give you a great example just last night. Last night, I was I there's a there's a bar that I have that's about 10 a stone's throw from my condo, and I love to stop in there and and every now and then, sometimes I'll sit there and I won't meet anybody, and sometimes different. So there was a guy, I'd say he's probably in his early 30s, sitting too over, and he was reading, which I find intriguing, that people come to a bar and read, yeah, people do it, I mean. And I just said to him, I go, and he was getting ready to pay his bill, and I just said, if you don't mind me asking, What are you reading? And he's like, Oh, it's by Ezra Klein. And I go, you know, I've listened to Ezra Klein before. And he goes, Yeah, you know? He says, I'm a big fan. And debt to debt to dad. Next thing, you know, we're just, we're just riffing back and forth. And I ended up staying. He put it this way, Michael, it took him a very long time to pay his bill because we had a conversation, and it was just such a pleasure to to people like that, and I think that, and it's a hard thing. It's a hard thing for me to do, because I think people are on their guard, a little bit like, why is this guy who's twice my age talking to me at a bar? That's that seems a little weird. And I would get that. I can see that. But as I mentioned in my latest book, I don't mean because I don't a whole chapter to this, and I I say in the book, I don't mean you any harm. I'm not trying to hit on you, or I'm not creepy old guy at the bar. I am genuinely interested in your story. And. In your life, and and I just, I want to be the least interesting guy in the room, and that's kind of how I go about my writing, too. Is just you, you drive the story. And even though I'm the comedian, I'll just fill in the gaps and make them funny. Speaker 1 ** 55:15 Well, I know that I have often been invited to speak at places, and I wondered, What am I going to say to this particular audience? How am I going to deal with them? They're they're different than what I'm used to. What I found, I guess you could call that writer's block, but what I found is, if I can go early and interact with them, even if I'm the very first speaker, if I can interact with them beforehand, or if there are other people speaking before me, invariably, I will hear things that will allow me to be able to move on and give a relevant presentation specifically to that group, which is what it's really all about. And so I'm with you, and I appreciate it, and it's good to get to the point where you don't worry about the block, but rather you look at ways to move forward and interact with people and make it fun, right, Greg Schwem ** 56:13 right? And I do think people, I think COVID, took that away from us a little bit, yeah, obviously, but I but, and I do think people missed that. I think that people, once you get them talking, are more inclined to not think that you're you have ulterior motives. I think people do enjoy putting their phones down a little bit, but it's, it's kind of a two way street when I, when I do meet people, if it's if it's only me asking the questions, eventually I'm going to get tired of that. Yeah, I think there's a, there has to be a reciprocity thing a little bit. And one thing I find is, is with the Gen Z's and maybe millennials. They're not, they're not as good at that as I think they could be. They're more they're they're happy to talk about themselves, but they're not really good at saying so what do you do for a living? Or what you know, tell me about you. And I mean, that's how you learn about other people. Yeah, Speaker 1 ** 57:19 tell me about your your latest book, Turning gut punches into punchlines. That's a interesting title, yeah, well, the more Greg Schwem ** 57:26 interesting is the subtitle. So it's turning gut punches into punch punch lines, A Comedian's journey through cancer, divorce and other hilarious stuff. Speaker 1 ** 57:35 No, like you haven't done anything in the world. Okay, right? So Greg Schwem ** 57:38 other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln. Yeah, exactly. See, now you get that reference. I don't know if I could use that on stage, but anyway, depend on your audience. But yeah, they're like, What's he talking Speaker 1 ** 57:50 who's Lincoln? And I've been to Ford theater too, so that's okay, yes, as have I. So it was much later than, than, well, than Lincoln, but that's okay. Greg Schwem ** 57:58 You're not that old, right? No. Well, okay, so as the title, as the title implies, I did have sort of a double, double gut punch, it just in the last two years. So I, I got divorced late in life, after 29 years of marriage. And while that was going on, I got a colon cancer diagnosis and and at this end, I was dealing with all this while also continuing work as a humor speaker, okay, as a comedian. And I just decided I got it. First of all, I got a very clean bill of health. I'm cancer free. I am finally divorced so and I, I started to think, I wonder if there's some humor in this. I I would, I would, you know, Michael, I've been on stage for like, 25 years telling people that, you know, you can find something funny to laugh at. You can find humor in any situation. It's kind of like what you're talking about all the people going down the stairs in the building in the world trade center. All right, if you look around enough, you know, maybe there's something funny, and I've been preaching that, but I never really had to live that until now. And I thought, you know, maybe there's something here. Maybe I can this is my chance now to embrace new experiences. It was kind of when I got divorced, when you've been married half your life and all of a sudden you get divorced, everything's new to you, yeah, you're, you're, you're living alone, you you're doing things that your spouse did, oh, so many years. And you're having to do those, and you're having to make new friends, yeah, and all of that, I think, is very humorous. So the more I saw a book in there that I started writing before the cancer diagnosis, and I thought was there enough here? Just like, okay, a guy at 60 years old gets divorced now what's going to happen to him? The diagnosis? Kind. Made it just added another wrinkle to the book, because now I have to deal with this, and I have to find another subject to to make light of a little bit. So the book is not a memoir, you know, I don't start it off. And, you know, when I was seven, you know, I played, you know, I was, I went to this school night. It's not that. It's more just about reinvention and just seeing that you can be happy later in life, even though you have to kind of rewrite your your story a little Speaker 1 ** 1:00:33 bit. And I would assume, and I would assume, you bring some of that into your ACT every so Greg Schwem ** 1:00:38 very much. So yeah, I created a whole new speech called Turning gut punches into punchlines. And I some of the stuff that I, that I did, but, you know, there's a chapter in the book about, I about gig work, actually three chapters I, you know, I went to work for Amazon during the Christmas holiday rush, just scanning packages. I wanted to see what that was like. I drove for Uber I which I did for a while. And to tell you the truth, I miss it. I ended up selling my car, but I miss it because of the what we just talked about. It was a great way to communicate with people. It was a great way to talk to people, find out about them, be the least interesting person in the car, anyway. And there's a chapter about dating and online dating, which I had not had to do in 30 years. There's a lot of humor in that. I went to therapy. I'd never gone to therapy before. I wrote a chapter about that. So I think people really respond to this book, because they I think they see a lot of themselves in it. You know, lots of people have been divorced. There's lots of cancer survivors out there, and there's lots of people who just suddenly have hit a speed bump in their life, and they're not really sure how to deal with it, right? And my way, this book is just about deal with it through laughter. And I'm the perfect example. Speaker 1 ** 1:01:56 I hear you, Oh, I I know, and I've been through the same sort of thing as you not a divorce, but my wife and I were married for 40 years, and she passed away in November of 2022 after 40 years of marriage. And as I tell people, as I tell people, I got to be really careful, because she's monitoring me from somewhere, and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it, so I got to be a good kid, and I don't even chase the women so. But I also point out that none of them have been chasing me either, so I guess I just do what we got to do. But the reality is, I think there are always ways to find some sort of a connection with other people, and then, of course, that's what what you do. It's all about creating a connection, creating a relationship, even if it's only for a couple of hours or an hour or 45 minutes, but, but you do it, which is what it's all about? Greg Schwem ** 1:02:49 Yeah, exactly. And I think the funniest stuff is real life experience. Oh, absolutely, you know. And if people can see themselves in in what I've written, then I've done my job as a writer. Speaker 1 ** 1:03:03 So do you have any plans to retire? Greg Schwem ** 1:03:06 Never. I mean, good for you retire from what 1:03:09 I know right, making fun of people Greg Schwem ** 1:03:12 and making them laugh. I mean, I don't know what I would do with myself, and even if I there's always going to be I don't care how technology, technologically advanced our society gets. People will always want and need to laugh. Yeah, they're always going to want to do that. And if they're want, if they're wanting to do that, then I will find, I will find a way to get to them. And that's why I, as I said, That's why, like working on cruise ships has become, like a new, sort of a new avenue for me to make people laugh. And so, yeah, I don't I there's, there's no way. I don't know what else I would do with Speaker 1 ** 1:03:53 myself, well and from my perspective, as long as I can inspire people, yes, I can make people think a little bit and feel better about themselves. I'm going to do it right. And, and, and I do. And I wrote a book during COVID that was published last August called Live like a guide dog. And it's all about helping people learn to control fear. And I use lessons I learned from eight guide dogs and my wife service dog to do that. My wife was in a wheelchair her whole life. Great marriage. She read, I pushed worked out well, but, but the but the but the bottom line is that dogs can teach us so many lessons, and there's so much that we can learn from them. So I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to create this book and and get it out there. And I think that again, as long as I can continue to inspire people, I'm going to do it. Because Greg Schwem ** 1:04:47 why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't I exactly right? Yeah, yeah. So, Speaker 1 ** 1:04:51 I mean, I think if I, if I stopped, I think my wife would beat up on me, so I gotta be nice exactly. She's monitoring from somewhere

covid-19 christmas america tv ceo new york amazon live ai children donald trump chicago man voice new york times club turning speaker new jersey microsoft night illinois white house hospitals divorce defense middle east started maryland gen z broadway mcdonald comedians blind ceos act democrats midwest cia ambassadors thunder journalism joe rogan stitcher ibm ebooks bullies unstoppable correct bill cosby northwestern university george w bush southeast harrison ford eddie murphy northwestern peter pan dmv gpt aha stand up comedy david letterman rutgers university colonel graphic chicago tribune jay leno huffpost mitch mcconnell carnegie hall ic thomas edison palm beach little league american red cross west palm beach noticed richard pryor carnegie braille roseanne barr donahue american foundation hawking exploded national security agency national federation gre ezra klein don rickles port authority rosemont green hornet michael m peter falk mike wallace michael h victorville chief vision officer exxon mobile federal express scripps college fort meade sky king michael hingson david frank sandy duncan greg website accessibe american humane association greg schwem thunder dog hero dog awards

177: Navigating Economic Instability with Dave Frank

navigating real life economic therapists instability financial wellness step framework david frank

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 8, 2025 39:18 Transcription Available

How can you feel better prepared for the financial curveballs life can throw your way?In this episode, I'm joined once again by certified financial planner Dave Frank to talk about one of the most fundamental, and often overlooked, aspects of financial wellness: buffers. We dive into the emotional and practical sides of creating buffers in your business and personal life, and why this matters more than ever in a world that's increasingly uncertain. From navigating economic instability to finding the right balance between saving and living, this conversation is full of practical tips to help you feel more prepared.Dave and I also unpack the emotional challenges many therapists face when trying to use the resources they've set aside, and we share how rethinking your language can shift your relationship with saving. Whether you're just starting to think about buffers or you're reassessing your current systems, this episode offers tools and insights to help you build a more resilient financial foundation.For a full transcript of the episode and much more, check out the blog post on our website! To watch a video version of this, check it out on YouTube: https://youtu.be/qlDYxUcZ5u0 For more from David and Linzy, check out:140: Balancing Debt Repayment and Real Life with David Frank104: How Deep Work Can Enhance Your Business with David Frank83: Embracing Emotions for Financial Wellness with David FrankWant to work with Linzy?Check out the FREE masterclass, The 4 Step Framework to Getting Your Business Finances Totally in Order, where you'll learn the framework that has helped hundreds of therapists go from money confusion and shame to calm and confidence, as well as the three biggest financial mistakes that therapists make. At the end, you'll be invited to join Money Skills for Therapists and get Linzy's support in getting your finances finally working for you. Click here to find a masterclass time that works for you! https://moneynutsandbolts.com/masterclass-signup-p/ David Frank has a lot of free resources & webinars on his website, like his training “Retirement Plans Fundamentals for Private Practice Owners”, or his “Finance Quick Start Guide for Therapists”. Check those out here. You can also find David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwfrank/ Mentioned in this episode:Want to work with Linzy?Check out the FREE masterclass, The 4 Step Framework to Getting Your Business Finances Totally in Order, where you'll learn the framework that has helped hundreds of therapists go from money confusion and shame to calm and confidence, as well as the three biggest financial mistakes that therapists make. At the end, you'll be invited to join Money Skills for Therapists and get Linzy's support in getting your finances finally working for you. Click on the link to find a masterclass time that works for you!

Episode 180: Don't Freak Out: Smart Money Moves in a Shaky Economy

Therapy For Your Money

Play Episode Listen Later May 16, 2025 26:11

Smart Money Moves for Therapists in a Shaky EconomyFeeling nervous about the economy? You're not alone—and you're not powerless. In this episode, Julie Herres welcomes financial planner David Frank back to the show for a calming and practical conversation about what therapists can do when things feel financially unstable.You'll learn why panic doesn't serve your practice—and what to do instead. Whether you're watching the market dip, worried about Medicare or Medicaid cuts, or just feeling the pressure of team payroll, this episode is packed with tools and reassurance.Why listen:Understand what market volatility really means.Learn how to protect your business from revenue concentration risks.Get proactive steps to ease anxiety and make grounded decisions.Show Highlights:01:45 – Why anxiety is rising and what's really happening in the market03:00 – Zooming out: what history tells us about bear markets and recovery05:00 – Julie's “set it and forget it” investing strategy08:00 – Dollar-cost averaging explained—and why it works09:30 – How to think like a CEO if you rely on Medicaid/Medicare10:40 – Revenue concentration risk: what it is, and why it matters11:30 – Using “fear-setting” to prepare without panicking14:00 – The value of securing a line of credit before you need it20:00 – The difference between tracking for action vs. emotional reassurance22:00 – How missing a few big days in the market can hurt long-term returns23:00 – Julie's closing reminderClosing Thought: “If you're feeling unsure, that's okay. You don't have to hustle harder, but you can plan smarter. You've got this—and I'm cheering you on.”Links and ResourcesTurning Point HQ – David Frank's Financial Planning Services https://turningpointhq.com/Money for Therapists Practice Startup - https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/startupGreenOak Accounting - www.GreenOakAccounting.comTherapy For Your Money Podcast - www.TherapyForYourMoney.comProfit First for Therapists - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.comProfit First Academy - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com/Academy Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation StudioGet our free KPI tracker to see how you practice measures up to others in the industry! www.therapyforyourmoney.com/kpi

ceo money economy therapists revenue dollar medicare medicaid kpi zooming shaky smart money money moves david frank julie herres financial planning services

Faith & Freedom: Charles Martin, Dr. David Frank, Pastor Anthony Thomas, & Eduardo Neret

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 8, 2025 45:51

This week on Faith & Freedom, bestselling author Charles Martin reveals the real-life events and deep faith that inspired his gripping new novel The Keeper. Dr. David Frank, a biological dentist and healthcare advocate, breaks down the fluoride debate and why informed healthcare choices matter more than ever. Pastor Anthony Thomas returns with a message of spiritual resilience, reminding us how to stay rooted in purpose when life gets hard. And political strategist Eduardo Neret joins to unpack Trump's impact, the shift among Gen Z voters, and what it really takes to turn this country around. [00:50] Writing for Redemption with Charles MartinBestselling author Charles Martin opens up about the personal experiences that shaped his Murphy Shepherd series, especially the latest release, The Keeper. He shares how grief, faith, and the redemptive love of God weave into his storytelling. Charles also explains how real-life encounters with human trafficking inspired his heart for writing stories that rescue, restore, and bring hope. [13:03] What's Really in Our Water?Dr. David Frank dives into the fluoride controversy—why it was introduced, what recent science is showing about cognitive health risks, and how to make more informed choices when it comes to what you're drinking. He also shares his take on RFK Jr.'s health freedom movement and why critical thinking matters more than ever in healthcare. [23:07] Strength Through the Storm with Pastor Anthony ThomasPastor Anthony Thomas returns to unpack the spiritual battle many are facing right now. From learning to wait on the Lord to embracing your God-given purpose, he shares biblical encouragement for staying strong in your calling—even when life gets tough. [35:14] Trump's First 60 Days with Eduardo NeretPolitical commentator Eduardo Neret breaks down the major wins of Trump's return—border control, government spending cuts, and a cultural shift among young voters. He also shares why Gen Z is waking up to the truth, rejecting identity politics, and embracing faith, freedom, and personal responsibility. Resources: Charles Martin – charlesmartinbooks.com Pastor Anthony Thomas – Website: TipOfTheSpearChurch.org Rumble: Tip of the Spear Church Eduardo Neret – X: @eduneret Sponsors Get clean healthy water with SentryH2O Use the promo code: “HEALTHY10” Get true American made products at switchtoamericawithshemane.com Protect yourself with EMP Shield Use the promo code “SHEMANE” Activate stem cells & reset your body's clock at lifewave.com/shemane Please send product inquiries to: shemane.lifewave@gmail.com Watch Faith & Freedom every Sunday, 10am est on America'sVoice.News Organic natural products to help your family thrive with Rowe Casa Organics & use promo code “FAITH” Purchase “My Pillow” at mypillow.com or call 800-933-6972 Use promo code “FAITH” Use promo code “FREEDOM” to receive 20% off your first order at Field of Greens Join Shemane's new programs Fit & Fabulous Start Pack Faith Fuel: 21 Day Devotion Check out Shemane's books: Purchase Shemane's New Book: ‘Abundantly Well' Shemane's new #1 Bestseller ‘Killer House' "4 Minutes to Happy" Kill It and Grill It Cookbook Connect with Shemane: Send your questions, suggestions, hunting photos & funny pet videos to shemane.chat@gmail.com Watch Killer House Documentary: KillerHouse.org Get Wildly Well at shemanenugent.rocks Shemane's Social Media: Instagram: @shemanenugent Youtube: /shemane Truth Social @Shemane

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Faith & Freedom: Charles Martin, Dr. David Frank, Pastor Anthony Thomas, & Eduardo Neret

Simply Shemane

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 8, 2025 45:51

god american donald trump lord freedom writing field protect redemption gen z keeper robert f kennedy jr pastor anthony charles martin anthony thomas david frank shemane strength through

Episode 308 – Unstoppable Servant Leader with Fred Dummar

Finanzrocker - Dein Soundtrack für Finanzen und Freiheit

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 7, 2025 73:02

I want to introduce you to our guest this time, Fred Dummar. I met Fred through Susy Flory who helped me write Thunder Dog. Fred is taking a class from Susy on writing and is well along with his first book. I look forward to hearing about its publishing sometime in 2025. Fred hails from a VERY small town in Central Nevada. After high school Fred went to the University of Nevada in Reno. While at University, Fred joined the Nevada National Guard which helped him pay his way through school and which also set him on a path of discovery about himself and the world. After college Fred joined the U.S. army in 1990. He was accepted into the Special Forces in 1994 and served in various locations around the world and held ranks from Captain through Colonel. Fred and I talk a fair amount about leadership and how his view of that subject grew and changed over the years. He retired from the military in 2015. He continues to be incredibly active serving in a variety of roles in both the for profit and nonprofit arenas. I love Fred's leadership style and philosophy. I hope you will as well. Fred has lots of insights that I believe you will find helpful in whatever you are doing. About the Guest: Colonel (Retired) Fred Dummar was born and raised in the remote town of Gabbs, Nevada. He enlisted in the Nevada National Guard in 1986 and served as a medic while attending the University of Nevada. He was commissioned as an Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army in April 1990. Fred was selected for Special Forces in 1994 and went on to command at every level in Special Forces from Captain to Colonel. He trained and deployed in many countries, including Panama, Venezuela, Guyana, Nigeria, Zambia, Botswana, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Most notably, Col Dummar participated in the liberation of Kurdish Northern Iraq in 2003, assisting elements of the Kurdish Peshmerga (resistance fighters) with the initial liberation of Mosul. Colonel Dummar's last tour in uniform was as the Commander of the Advisory Group for Afghan Special Forces from May 2014 to June 2015. Immediately after retiring, he returned to Afghanistan as a defense contractor to lead the Afghan Army Special Operations Command and Special Mission Wing training programs until May 2017. Beginning in 2007 and continuing until 2018, Fred guided his friend, who was blinded in Iraq, through 40 Marathons, several Ultra marathons, climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, running with the bulls in Pamplona, and a traverse of the Sahara Desert to raise funds and awareness for Special Forces Soldiers. He personally ran numerous Ultramarathons, including 23 separate 100-mile runs and over a hundred races from 50 miles to marathon. Fred graduated from the U.S. Army Command and Staff College and the U.S. Army War College with master's degrees in military art and science, strategy, and policy. He is currently pursuing a Doctoral Degree in Organizational Psychology and Leadership. Since retiring from the Army in 2015, Fred has led in nonprofit organizations from the Board of Directors with the Special Forces Charitable Trust (2015-2022) as the Chief of Staff for Task Force Dunkirk during the evacuation of Afghan Allies in August 2021, as a leadership fellow with Mission 43 supporting Idaho's Veterans (2020-2023), and as a freshwater advocate with Waterboys with trips to East Africa in 2017 and 2019 to assist in funding wells for remote tribes. Fred has led in the civilian sector as the Senior Vice President of Legacy Education, also known as Rich Dad Education, from 2017-2018 and as the startup CEO for Infinity Education from 2021-2022, bringing integrity and compassion to Real Estate Education. Fred continues investing in Real Estate as a partner in Slate Mountain Homes, Idaho and trains new investors to find, rehab, and flip manufactured homes with Alpine Capital Solutions. Fred is married to Rebecca Dummar, and they reside in Idaho Falls, Idaho, with three of their children, John, Leah, and Anna. Their daughter Alana attends the University of Michigan. Ways to connect with Fred: Here is a link to my webpage - https://guidetohuman.com/ Here is a link to my Substack where I write - https://guidetohuman.substack.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet, but it's more fun to talk about unexpected than inclusion or diversity, although it is relevant to talk about both of those. And our guest today is Fred Dummar. It is pronounced dummar or dumar. Dummar, dummar, see, I had to do that. So Fred is a person I met Gosh about seven or eight months ago through Susy Flory, who was my co author on thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust at ground zero. And Susy introduced us because Fred is writing a book. We're going to talk about that a bunch today, and we'll also talk about Fred's career and all sorts of other things like that. But we've had some fascinating discussions, and now we finally get to record a podcast, so I'm glad to do that. So Fred Dummar, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Fred Dummar ** 02:22 Yeah, no. Thanks for having me. Michael, yeah, we've had some some interesting discussions about everything unstoppable mind and blindness and diversity. And yeah, it's good to be on here. Michael Hingson ** 02:34 Yeah. And one of the things I know that you have done is ran with a blind marathoner, and I'm anxious to hear about that, as well as what an ultra marathon is. We'll get to that, however. But why don't we start by you may be talking a little bit about kind of the early freight growing up and all that you grew up in, in Nevada, in a in a kind of remote place. So I'm going to just leave it to you to talk about all Fred Dummar ** 02:57 that. Yeah, Michael, so, and actually, that's part of my, part of my story that I'm writing about. Because, you know, obviously, where we're from forms a large basis of how we sometimes interact with the world. And I came from a very remote town in Nevada. It's dying, by the way. I'm not sure how long that town will be with us, but, yeah, being from a small town where, you know, graduating class was 13 kids, and it's an hour to the closest place that you could watch a movie or get fast food, those types of things, it's definitely a different type of childhood, and much one, much more grounded in self reliance and doing activities that you can make up yourself, right? Instead of being looking for others to entertain you. Michael Hingson ** 03:50 Yeah, I hear you. So what was it like growing up in a small town? I grew up in Palmdale, California, so it was definitely larger than where you grew up, we had a fairly decent sized High School senior graduating class. It wasn't 13, but what was it like growing up in that kind of environment? Fred Dummar ** 04:12 Yeah, it was. It was one where you know, not only did you know everybody, everybody else knew you, and so you could pretty much count on anyone in the town for for assistance or, or, you know, if, I guess, if you were on the house for not, not assistance, so, but no, it was. It was a great place to have many, many, many friends from there. But it was, certainly was an adjustment, because I think growing up, there are our sort of outlook on life for us, you know, certainly from the people that that ran our high school and the other adults, most people were seen as, you know, your life after high school would be going to work at one of. The mines, or going to work on one of the, you know, family cattle ranch or something like that. So making the jump from there to, you know, even a few hours away to Reno, you know, to start at the University of Nevada, that was a big it's a big jump from for me, and because the school is so small, I ended up graduating from high school when I was 16, so I barely had a driver's license, and now I am several hours away and Reno, Nevada, going to the university. And, you know, quite an adjustment for me. Michael Hingson ** 05:32 It's interesting. A few days ago, I had the opportunity to do a podcast episode with someone who's very much involved and knows a lot about bullying and so on, and just listening to you talk, it would seem like you probably didn't have a whole lot of the bully type mentality, because everyone was so close, and everyone kind of interacted with each other, so probably that sort of stuff wasn't tolerated very well. Yeah, Fred Dummar ** 05:59 it was, it was more so outsiders. I mean, kids that had grown up there all sort of, you know, knew where they were or weren't in the pecking order. Things and things sort of stayed kind of steady stasis, without a lot of bullying. But yeah, new kids coming in. That's where you would see for me, from my recollection of growing up to that's where, you know, I remember that type of behavior coming out when, when you know, a new kid would come into the town, Michael Hingson ** 06:31 was it mainly from the new kids or from the kids who are already there? Fred Dummar ** 06:34 From the kids? Sometimes it was the integration, right? Some people integrate into new environments better than others. And you know, generally, no problems for those folks. But some, you know, it takes a bit more. And in a place like that, if you're you know, if you're seen as different, so you know to your theory on or your you know the topics you cover on diversity and inclusion. Sometimes when you're the one that that looks different or acts different in an environment like that, you definitely stick out, and then you become the target of of bullying. Michael Hingson ** 07:10 What? What happens that changes that for a kid? Then, you know, so you're you're different or in one way or another. But what happens that gets kids accepted? Or do they? Fred Dummar ** 07:21 Yeah, I don't know. I think, I think it's learning to embrace just who you are and doing your own thing. I think if you know, if you're trying to force yourself into an environment that doesn't want to accept you, I'm not sure that that's ever an easy battle for anyone. But just being yourself and doing your own thing. I think that's, that's the way to go, and that's certainly, you know, what I learned through my life was I wasn't one of the kids that planned on staying there and working in the mind, and I wasn't, you know, my family was, you know, at that point, my mom and dad owned the, the only grocery store in town, and I certainly wasn't going back to run the family business. So, you know, look, looking for a way, you know, for something else to do outside of that small town was certainly number one on my agenda, getting out of there. So being myself and and learning to adapt, or, as you know the saying goes, right, learning to be instead of being a fish in a small pond, learning to be a fish in a much larger pond, Michael Hingson ** 08:27 yeah, well, and there's, there's a lot of growth that has to take place for that to occur, but it's understandable. So you graduated at 16, and then what did you do after Fred Dummar ** 08:38 my uh, freshman year at college, which I funded by, you know, sort of Miss, Miss misleading people or lying about my age so that I could get a job at 16 and working construction and as an apprentice electrician. And that funded my my freshman year of college. But, you know, as as as my freshman year was dragging on, I was wondering, you know, hey, how I was going to continue to fund my, you know, continued universe my stay at the university, because I did not want to go, you know, back back back home, sort of defeated, defeated by that. So I started looking into various military branches of military service, and that's when it happened upon the National Guard, Nevada National Guard, and so I joined the National Guard. And right after, you know, I think it was five days after I turned 17, so as soon as I could, I signed up, and that summer after my freshman year, I left for training for the National Guard. Missed first semester of my sophomore year, but then came back and continued on with my university studies using, you know, my the educational benefits that came from being in the National Guard. Michael Hingson ** 09:55 So you're in the National Guard, but that wasn't a full time thing, so you were able to go back and. Continue education. Yeah, Fred Dummar ** 10:01 it was, you know, it's a typical one weekend a month, one weekend a month for duty. Typically, we would go in on a Friday night, spend Saturday and Sunday for duty. So we get a, you know, small check for that. And then we were also allowed to draw, you know, the GI Bill and the state of Nevada had a program at the time where you didn't get paid upfront for your classes, but at the end of every semester, you could take your final report card and for every class, for every credit that you had a C or higher, they would reimburse you. So yeah, so they were essentially paying my tuition, and then, you know, small stipend every month from the GI Bill. And then, you know, my National Guard check, so and in the 80s, you know, when I was going to school, that that was enough to keep, you know, define my education. And where did you go to school? At the University of Nevada in Michael Hingson ** 10:59 Reno, in Reno, okay, yeah, so, so you kind of have ended up really liking Reno, huh? Fred Dummar ** 11:07 Yeah, I, yeah. I became sort of home city. Obviously, no one would ever really know where. You know, if I would have mentioned that I grew up in a town called gaps, most people would, you know, not, not really understand. I sometimes, if they're, you know, press and say, hey, you know, where are you really? Because, you know, often say, Hey, I went to school in Reno. If they say, where did you grow up? I'll, you know, it's a longer conversation. I'll be like, okay, so if you put your finger, like, right in the middle of Nevada, in the absolute middle of nowhere, that's where I grew up. Michael Hingson ** 11:40 Well, you know, people need to recognize and accept people for who they are, and that doesn't always happen, which is never fun, but Yeah, gotta do what you can do, yes, well, so Reno, on the other hand, is a is a much larger town, and probably you're, a whole lot more comfortable there than you than you were in Gabs, but that's okay. So yeah, so you went to the university. You got a bachelor's, yep, and then what did you do? Fred Dummar ** 12:11 Yeah. Well, so along the way, while I was in the National Guard, you know, being a medic, right? I was convinced by a lieutenant that met me. I was actually doing the physical, because it was one of the things our section did when I was first in, you know, we gave the medical physicals, and this lieutenant said, you know, you should come transfer our unit. The unit was an infantry unit, and I became their only medic. And so that was much better than working in a medical section for a helicopter unit where I'd been and and the lieutenants, you know, said that I should consider joining ROTC, since I was already going to the university. So I did in my junior year, started the Reserve Officer Training Corps there at the University of Nevada. And so when I graduated college in the winter of 89 I accepted a commission into the army. So then a few months later, I was, I was off on my my Grand Army adventure, Michael Hingson ** 13:11 alright, and then what did you do? Fred Dummar ** 13:15 So, yeah, that was, you know, because it was an infantry Lieutenant went to Fort Benning, Georgia, and I believe now the army calls it fort Moore, but yeah, I trained there for about a year, doing all of the tasks necessary to become an infantry officer. And then I went down to Panama, when the US still had forces in the country of Panama. And I spent two and a half years down there was that past mariega, yeah, right after, because I had graduated from college in December of 89 while operation just caused to get rid of Noriega was happening. So year after my infantry training, I sort of ended up in Panama, and sort of as at the time, thinking it was bad luck, you know, because if you're in the army, you know, you want to, kind of want to go where things are happening. So I'm in Panama the year after the invasion, while Saddam Hussein is invading Kuwait, and everyone else is rushing to the desert, and I'm sitting in the jungle. So, you know, as a as a young person, you start to think, you know, oh, you know, hey, I'm missing. I'm missing the big war. I should be at the war, you know. So that was an interesting take, not what I would have now, but you know, as a young man, Michael Hingson ** 14:31 what caused you to revise that view, though? Or time, Fred Dummar ** 14:37 yeah, yeah. Just, just time. And, you know, later in life, you know, after, uh, serving combat rotations in Iraq and Afghanistan, I realized it wasn't something one needed to rush towards, Michael Hingson ** 14:48 really quite so bad, where you were, yeah. So, Fred Dummar ** 14:52 yeah, I spent a couple years in Panama, then I came back to Fort Benning, uh, Fort Moore, and worked at the Army's Airborne School. So. Uh, you know, the place that teaches people how to jump out of airplanes. And I did that for for a year. So it's, it's really fun because watching, you know, watching people go through the process of of training to jump out of an aircraft, and then sort of their very first time on an aircraft might takes off, and you can see the, you know, sort of the realization that they're not going to land with the plane for the first time in their life. You know, they're they're not going to be in the plane when it lands. That's always, you know, it's always a good time. And then, of course, when you know, then there's another realization, moment when the doors pop open right, and the doors, doors on the aircraft are opened so the jump masters can start making checks, you know, and out, yeah, and they're looking, you know, their eyes get larger and larger, you know, as as preparations for the jump. You know, when they're stood up and they're hooked up inside the aircraft, and then finally, you know, told to exit. Yeah, it's interesting. And during the time when I worked there, that's when I was eligible, because I was a senior lieutenant at that time, that I could apply to become a Green Beret. I could go through special forces training if I was selected. So I left from Fort Benning, I went up to Fort Bragg, now fort liberty, and went through the selection, Special Forces Assessment, selection, and was selected to become a Special Forces soldiers that I went to Fort Bragg, you know, spent the year or so becoming qualified to be a special forces team leader, and then the next I spent the next 20 years of my Army career in various units at at Fort liberty, and third Special Forces Group, Special Forces Command, seven Special Forces Group, Special Operations recruiting, just, you know, bouncing around in different assignments and then, but obviously during that time, 911, happened, and you know, was on the initial invasion in 2003 up in, up into the north. We were flying in from Romania, you know, before the war started. And so being there during that phase of the Iraq combat in Iraq, and then going to Afghanistan and and spending multiple, multiple tours and multiple years in Afghanistan. So, so Michael Hingson ** 17:25 did you do much jumping out of airplanes? Fred Dummar ** 17:29 Yeah, in combat, no. But over the years, yeah, I accumulated quite a few jumps. Because what, you know, every, every unit I was ever assigned to while I was in the army was always one that was, you know, airborne, which are, you know, the designation for units that jump out of airplanes. So Michael Hingson ** 17:47 have to, yeah, yeah. Well, you're a pretty level headed kind of guy. What was it like the first time you jumped? I mean, you described what it looked like to other people. Do you think that was basically the same for you, or did you, yeah, kind of a thicker skin, Fred Dummar ** 18:01 yeah, no, no, I think, I think that's why I was able to, you know, in large measure, that's how a lot of us are able to have empathy, right? If we've, if we've, if we've been through it, and we are able to access the memory of, okay, what was it like when I was doing it? It allows us to be, you know, more compassionate to the people that are going through it at that moment for the first time, but yeah, I can remember being in the plane, and then you know, that realization is like, hey, you know, in the pit of your stomach, I'm not, I'm not landing with this plane. And then, you know, the doors opening up, you're like, you know, kind of hey, those, I don't know what the gates of hell look like, but right now, that's that's in my mind, what, what they would look like, you know, and then going out the first time, and and then I think the second time might have been worse, because it was the anticipation of, oh, wait a minute, we're doing that again. And by the but if you do five jumps to qualify before you're given your parachute as badge, so I think by the third one, I'd come to terms with, with, with dealing and managing. You know, you know the fear of it, of leaving an airplane. And people you know often ask, you know when, when you're older and you're past the 100 jump mark, you know it's like, still, is there still fear and like, I think, I think, if there's not, I mean, then you know, there's probably something wrong with you, but, but it's not, it's nowhere near you know how it is when you know your First learning and your first learning to trust yourself and trust the equipment and trust the process. Well, Michael Hingson ** 19:45 what you're learning a little bit along the way is to how to control fear. And you mentioned my book earlier, the one that's coming out live like a guide dog, which is all about trying to teach people to control fear, because we have so many things happen to. Us, or we think about so many things, that we develop so many fears consciously or not, that when something does unexpectedly happen to us, especially something that isn't necessarily a positive thing, we just automatically go into a fear reaction mode. And the the reality is it doesn't need to be that way you can learn to control fear, which is what we talk about in live like a guide dog, because it's important that people recognize you can learn to control fear. I would never say, Don't be afraid. Yeah, but I think you can learn to control fear, and by doing so, then you use that fear to help guide you and give you the the the the tools to really be able to move forward and focus. But most people don't really spend much time doing that. They don't learn introspection. They don't learn how to to slow down and analyze and develop that mind muscle so that later you can analyze incredibly quickly. Fred Dummar ** 21:06 Yeah, we in the army, we call that stress inoculation, good description, you know, it's, you know, once you're, once you're, you've learned to deal with stress, or deal with, you know, stressful, fearful things. Then, you know, the next time you're you're better equipped. And that fear and that stress can be, you know, can be continually amped up. I used to laugh when I was doing Special Forces recruiting, because the you know, it would require a special physical for candidates to go get a special physical before they could come to training. And one of the boxes we would joke about was, I have no fear of heights or enclosed spaces. No everybody has those fears, is whether you can, you can manage those fears and deal with. You know, things are very uncomfortable. Well, that's Michael Hingson ** 22:05 really it. It's all about managing. And so I'm sure that they want you to check no, that you don't have those fears when you're when you're going through. But at the same time, what you're hopefully really saying is you can manage it. Yeah, Fred Dummar ** 22:20 that you can manage and that's why I was saying, that's why I would always laugh, because of course, everyone has those fears and but learning to deal with them and and how you deal with them, and that that's, you know, one of the things I discuss in one of the chapters of the book I'm writing is, is, you know when fear, when fear comes to You, you know, how do you deal with it and how do you overcome it? I think people are more and more recognizing you know that there are techniques through stress inoculation, you know, things like that. They'll teach you how you can overcome fear. And you know simple breathing techniques to you know, slow down your breathing and engage your brain, not just your brain stem, right? When you breathe, it fast, your brain stem is in charge, not your brain and yeah, and think your way through things, rather than just reacting as a, you know, as a frightened animal, Michael Hingson ** 23:19 right? And it's one of the things that that, as I discuss in the book, and I talk to people about now a lot, that although I didn't realize it for many years, after September 11, I had developed a mindset on that day that said, You know what to do, because I had spent a lot of time learning what to do, how to deal with emergencies, what the rules were, and all that, and all of that just kicked in on September 11, which is as good as it could get. Fred Dummar ** 23:45 Yeah. Well, Michael, you have a you have a distinct advantage. You had a distinct advantage a couple of them, but, but one being, you know, because you already live in a world without light in your sight, you're not dependent on that. And so another, when other people are, you know, in, you know, when I'm reading the book, I'm nodding my head knowingly, you know, as you're talking about being in the stairwell and other people being frightened, and you're just like, this is okay. This is an average, I mean, maybe unusual circumstances, but an average day for me, Michael Hingson ** 24:21 yeah. But they side of it is, I know lots of blind people who would be just as much in fear as anyone else. It's the fact is, of course, we didn't know what was going on. Yes, September 11, a Fred Dummar ** 24:35 bit of ignorance is bliss, right? Yeah. And Michael Hingson ** 24:38 that was true for everyone. I had a great imagination. I could tell you that I imagine things that could happen that were a whole lot worse than in a sense, what did, but I, but I like science fiction and horror, so I learned how to imagine well, but the fact is that it isn't so much being blind that's an advantage, really. Really was the preparation. And so the result was that I had done that. And you know, of course, the airplane hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building. So the reality is going down the stairs. None of us knew what happened. We figured out an airplane hit the building because we started smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. But by the same token, that was all we knew. We didn't even know that tower two had been hit until, well, much later, when we got outside, colleagues saw David Frank, my colleague saw tower two was on fire, but we still didn't know what it was from. So yeah, the the fact is that blindness may or may not really be an advantage, but preparation certainly was, yeah, Fred Dummar ** 25:43 how you reacted, how you reacted to being blind. Because, yeah, you can just, just like anything, right? You can react in in several different ways, and how you acted, how you built your life around, Michael Hingson ** 25:54 sure. And most people, of course, just rely on reading signs. And so they also have the fear, what if I can't read the signs. What if there's smoke and all that? And again, they they build fears rather than doing the smart thing, which is just to learn what to do in the case of an emergency when you're in a building like that. But you know, it is part of what what we do talk about, and it is, it is pretty important that people start to learn a little bit more that they can control fear. I mean, we have in our in our whole world, politicians who just do nothing but promote fear, and that's unfortunate, because we all buy into it, rather than stepping back and go, Wait a minute. It doesn't need to be that way. Fred Dummar ** 26:37 Yeah, I think the other thing, like you talked about your your preparation and training. And I always that was one of the way ways, or one of the things that brought me to ultra marathoning, you know, after my initial training in Special Forces, was, you know, if you're, if you're going to push your capacity to see, you know what you're what you're really capable of, or build, you know, build additional reserves. So, you know, if you are counted on to do something extraordinary or in extenuating circumstances, what do you really have, you know, yeah, how far can you really push yourself? And so it really brought me into the sport of ultra running, where, you know, the distances, or those distances that exceed a marathon. So a marathon being, you know, 26 miles, yeah. So the first ultra marathon is a 50k because, you know, Marathon is 42 so eight kilometers farther. And then the next, general, you know, length is 50 miles. And then there's some other, you know, 100k which is 62 miles. And then, kind of the, although, you know, now we see, see races longer, but kind of the the longest distance being 100 mile race and so, and the gold standard in 100 mile racing being, you know, for most, most courses, every course being different, but for most courses, is to finish under 24 hours, so within one one day, but to keep moving for one, you know, one entire day while, you know, while fueling yourself and and, and some people say, Well, you Know, wow, that pace doesn't seem that fast. Troy Michael Hingson ** 28:22 yourself then and see, yeah, Fred Dummar ** 28:24 and, like a lot of things, it doesn't, it doesn't exactly seem fast until you're factoring in, okay, but you're still gonna have to stop at some point to you, you know, relieve yourself, and you're gonna have to, you know, walk while you eat. And, you know, there's hills to climb and all these other sorts of obstacles. So, yeah, finishing under 24 hours is, you know, sort of the, you know, the standard, I guess, for the people want to achieve. And anyway, yeah, I became, for a bit there, became addicted to it. And then, so when I met Ivan, my friend, who you were talking about, who, who was, was blinded in in Iraq in 2006 when I met him, he had already been injured, and I realized that he really wanted to run marathons. He'd run one, and had to use, like, several different guides, right? You know, there were different people jumping in and out, and it really wasn't an ideal situation for him and he and he also needed someone who who wanted to do that, who would be a reliable training partner, right? Because it's not like, okay, you know, you might be able to find people that show up on marathon day. Want to run the marathon, or a few people, but, you know, day in, day out, to be training. And so I was like, Hey, this is one of those things that ends up in your path, right, that you can, maybe you can walk around it, but, but for me, when I, you know, when I saw. I was like, Okay, this was, this was something that, you know, for whatever reason, is on my path. I meant to do it. I meant to be the guy that does this. And so, yeah, we started training together. And, you know, ended up running 40 plus marathons together, you know, from London, Chicago, you know, every, every the Marine Corps Marathon, just everywhere. And, you know, summiting Mount Kilimanjaro and running with the bulls together. And then our last race was, it's often referred to as, you know, the world's toughest foot race. It's the marathon to Saab, and it's a, it's a distance race of 150 some miles across the Sahara Desert. And they break it up into stages. So on different days, some days, you run 30 miles. Some days, you know, 26 one day is a 50. I think we were at 53 miles on one of the days. But anyway, and you start the you start that race with whatever you're going to eat and whatever you're going to need, you know, in terms of gear on your back. And the only thing that's provided to you during the race is water. So, and that was our kind of, you know, he's like, I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to run, and so I just want to do that before I stop. I stopped, right? So, but anyway, yeah, so that was how I ended up meeting my friend Ivan, and, you know, over the course of a decade and a half, we did all of these, you know, what some people think are incredibly dumb things, but, you know, sort of embracing the discomfort of training and competing to, you know, to make ourselves better, you know? Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 31:44 so while you were in the military, I know you mentioned earlier something about doing some work in as a medic. Did you do that most of your time? Were you specializing in that? Or what? Fred Dummar ** 31:54 No, no, that was only when I early on, when I was a soldier, I was a medic, and then when I was commissioned, I was commissioned, I was commissioned as an infantry officer, and then, and then, when it became Special Forces, you know, the officer is, sort of has, has no specialty other than leading the team. The team has medics and weapons guys and engineers and communicators and all that. But, you know, the officers sort of assigned as the as the planning the planning agent, you know, the to lead the team, rather than have any of the specialties, Michael Hingson ** 32:30 right? And you participated long enough that you rose to the rank of colonel. Yeah, yeah, my participation Fred Dummar ** 32:38 trophy was attaining the rank of colonel. And I would often tell people the arm don't think the army doesn't have a sense of humor. I was promoted to Colonel on April 1, so April Fool's days when, when I was promoted? And yeah, and I, after almost 30 years in uniform, retired in 2015 so I don't know that I would have went that long. But you know, they're about the middle of my career, from 1986 to 2015 you know 911 happened, and for me, it wasn't, it wasn't really a choice to to leave. Then, you know, it was like, Okay, we, you know, we have to do this. These Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, my my very last, my last year in in uniform. I was in Afghanistan as an advisor to the Afghan commandos. And when I returned from that tour, you know, was told that, hey, I had to, I had to finally leave Fort Bragg after 20 years and and either go to, you know, the Pentagon or another headquarters. And that's when I decided to retire. Because it was like, okay, you know, if, if the wars don't need me anymore, then I, I can go home and do other things. Yeah, I can do other things. If the wars don't need me, you know, then I can probably hang it up. So Michael Hingson ** 34:11 when did you get married? So Fred Dummar ** 34:15 over the course of my Army career, I was divorced twice. Yeah, it's just not an easy No, it's not. It's just not an easy lifestyle. I'm not making any excuses for my own failings in that regard. But, you know, it is, it is, I think, easier to become emotionally detached from someone, especially, you know, as in my case, I think I often put the army, first, the army, my soldiers, the mission, you know, as the first on my mind. And you know, for someone else, you know that to be a pretty strong person, to sit in the back seat during that so. And I did not have any children and then, but after I retired, when went through my second and four. I met someone. And so, yeah, we were married in in 2020, and so I had a, I was able, you know, after not having children, my first son was born when I was 50. So I have a son who's, you know, four, four years old, four going on five. And then we decided that, you know, he should have someone to be with. So we were going to have a second child. And my wife had twins, so I have twin, three year old girls. So, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 35:37 you're going to do it. You might as well go all the way, huh? Fred Dummar ** 35:40 Yeah, and and, and I haven't, and I adopted Rebecca's older, the child that she that she had. And so now we have four children, Alana being much older, she's already finished for freshman year at the University of Michigan, and this get ready to go back to Ann Arbor and continue her studies and and then we have, you know, the small pack of humans that are still here in their pre, pre kindergarten phase. So Michael Hingson ** 36:10 she is a a Wolverine fan, and there will ever be an Ohio State Buckeye, Fred Dummar ** 36:18 yeah, something like that. Yeah, that rivalry is pretty intense. And, you know, never being part of a school that was, you know, in that, in that division, you know, not really realizing, well, you know, watching college football, I kind of understand the rival, all the rivalries. But once she started going to Michigan, and, you know, attending a football game there myself. And then, unfortunately, you know, we were able to go to the Rose Bowl this year, which, you know, when Michigan played Alabama. So we were able to go to that together. So, yeah, it was, it's interesting to learn that dynamic. And like, I tell her, it's like, never, never take for granted being part of a big school like that without those sorts of traditions. Absolutely. Michael Hingson ** 37:06 Yeah, I went to UC Irvine, so we didn't really have a lot with with football, but my wife did her graduate work at USC, and I always like to listen to USC football games. I judge a lot about sports teams by the announcers they hire, I gotta say. And so we've been always so blessed out here in California, although I think that announcing isn't quite what it used to be, but we had good announcers that announced for USC out here on I think it was originally on Kx, and then it went to other stations. But anyway, when we got married, the wedding started late because a bunch of people were sitting out in their cars waiting for the end of the USC Notre Dame game. And so the wedding was 15 minutes late starting because everybody was waiting to see who was going to win the game. And I am quite pleased to say that we won, and God was on our side, as opposed to Notre Dame. And, yeah, the marriage lasted 40 years, so until she, she passed away in 2022 but I love to tell people that, you know, God clearly was on our side, especially when I tell that to my Notre Dame friends, Fred Dummar ** 38:15 yeah, the touch touchdown, Jesus wasn't, wasn't there for them, not Michael Hingson ** 38:19 that day. Yeah, but, but, you know, and there's college football is, is in a lot of ways, I just think so much more fun, or it has been than professional. But, you know, now a lot more money is getting into it, which is unfortunate too. Yeah, Fred Dummar ** 38:37 I think that's caused some of the you know, teams re evaluate what they what they do happen, how they operate. And I think it's forced some of the older coaches to leave the game, yeah, because it's not the game they recognize, so not Michael Hingson ** 38:53 what they had well. So you've been to a variety of different places. You've been a leader. And I think it's pretty clear that you really still are, but how did all the the different experiences, the different places that you went to, and all the the experiences that you participated in, how does that affect and shape your leadership style? Fred Dummar ** 39:19 Yeah, Michael, you know, I think one of the first things, right, if you when your surface looking, and some people never go below the surface. So when you talk about things like diversity and inclusion, the things, the things that they will think about that make people divert diverse are not generally what I think about. Because, you know, when you look below the surface, you see a lot of commonalities in the human experience. You know, from my time living, living in Panama and operating in Central and South America, some countries in the in the you know, the Caribbean when I was first in special operations, and then. Obviously, I went and did some time in in Africa, some peacekeeping operations in Nigeria, some other exercises down in the south, southern countries in Africa, and then my time in Iraq and Afghanistan. People, you know, they're they come in different colors. They they have different their path to God or the universe or the higher power that they recognize that the cultural artifacts that they use may may look different, but you know, they're generally pointing if you if you can step aside from your own preconceived notions about things, you can see that they're they're just different signposts to the same God, right to the same, to the same, power to the same, to the same things, and people want the same things, you know, for their families, you know, for for security and prosperity, and you know that that sort of thing. So it's, that's where I, kind of, you know, came to my leadership philosophy, which is pretty easy to remember. It's just lead, lead with love. And you know, if you use, and I haven't tell people, doesn't really matter what denomination you are. If you read, you know, the Gospels of the New Testament purely as a leadership guide. You know it's, it's hard to find a a better leadership example than than what, what Jesus was was doing, you know, the way he was serving others the way he was leading. It's, it's, it's pretty powerful, pretty powerful stuff. And you know, even, even at the end, right during the Last Supper, when he tells people, you know, who, who's the most important is the most important person, the person sitting at the table getting ready to eat, or the person serving, you know. And of course, you as humans, you know, is based on our, you know, the way we think about the world. We think the most important person is, you know, not only the person sitting at the table, but the person at the nicest table, or the head of the table, and not the person serving. And so that was something I tried to embrace during my time in the military, and what I try and embrace now is, you know, being the person that serves others and using your position. You know, if you if, if and when you are promoted or asked to lead that, you approach it from a position of, you know, what? What can I do from this position to help other people and and just be compassionate to their actual circumstances. And that doesn't mean, you know, when people, people hear me say that they're, you know, they think, Well, that's pretty how does that reconcile with you being a Green Beret and being around, you know, a bunch of you know, meat eating savages, you know, how do you how do you reconcile that and like, well, leading with care and compassion doesn't mean you know that I'm coddling anyone, because I'm certainly not coddling anyone you know. You know, I demand high performance for myself and from from people in those positions like that. You know, when I was a member of a special forces organization, but not everybody's supposed to be doing that. And so I think recognizing the circumstances and the people and what the organization's supposed to do or and how it can care for people, I think those are things that became really, really important to me Michael Hingson ** 43:33 well. And I think you raised some really valid points. The reality is that September 11, for example, was not a religious war, a religious event. It was a bunch of thugs who wanted to have their way with the world. But most people who truly practice the Islamic faith are the same as the rest of us, and they and they seek God just like we do, like Jewish people do and others do, and we've got to keep that in mind, but it's, it's so hard, because we mostly don't step back and evaluate that and realize that those 19 people on those four airplanes are just a bunch of thugs, pure and simple. Fred Dummar ** 44:15 Yeah, that, yeah, that, and, and the organizations they represent, right? You know, they're, they're, they're, and they're not the only ones, right? People from of all faiths have harnessed, you know, Michael Hingson ** 44:30 their various back to the Crusades, yeah, you know, you know, their Fred Dummar ** 44:33 various religions have harnessed themselves up to, you know, to sway people to to hate, or to, you know, to engage in combat or whatever. So yeah, to to lump that all in. I think our, some of our responses, and then also some of the way people think, has really led it led us to a more a more divided we're. Well, then you know that are more inclusive and and you know, thinking of ourselves as one we we think of ourselves as, you know, many and different, and sometimes things that we think would bring us together or help us make things more fair, like, you know, talking about diversity and inclusion, if we aren't really thinking about what we're trying to do and what that looks like, we can end up making the world more divided and less inclusive. Michael Hingson ** 45:34 And unfortunately, we're seeing way too much of that, and it isn't helping to do that. And hopefully at some point we'll, we'll figure that out, or we'll realize that maybe it's a little bit better, or can be a little bit better than we think. Yeah, and I know you in 2003 did a lot to help the Kurds in northern Iraq, right? Fred Dummar ** 45:55 Yeah, that was primarily, you know, my, my experience in Iraq was, you know, before the 2003 invasion, I was in Romania with my special forces company. And, yeah, we flew into northern Iraq and linked up with a group of Kurds and from where they were at and primarily our mission, you know, at that point, nobody really knew what Saddam might do when the main offensive of, you know, conventional army, conventional Marine Corps, British, you know, other allies, started from the south towards Baghdad. What would Saddam do? Would he, you know, send his forces in the north against the Kurds to create a destabilizing effect, you know, one both killing Kurds, but causing Kurds to flee to Syria and Iran, and, you know, probably most importantly for people that were planning to Turkey, you know, to further destabilize the region. So obviously, out of a desire to protect, help protect the Kurds and help stop or prevent something like that from happening. You know, we went in a couple weeks before the actual ground war started, we were in place with the Kurds and started organizing them to to defend themselves. And do you know, take back the land that they considered theirs, because, after, you know, Desert Storm, the you know, the 90s, the 90s war against Iraq, Saddam had pushed into Kurdish territory and established, you know, what he referred to as a, you know, his, his buffer zone. And then, you know, the US had been forcing a, you know, a no fly zone up in the Kurdish areas, but the Kurds had still never been allowed to go back to some of the cities that they considered theirs. So, you know, when we got in there with them, we were able to get, you know, move currents that have been forced out of those towns moved back into their towns and and our particular sector we we cleared down to Mosul Iraq, which, you know, people in the Bible will recognize As as the city of Nineveh. Or maybe not know that, but yeah, so we were, I was able to go drive through the, you know, the biblical, the some of the remains of the, you know, city of Nineveh as we got to Mosul. And then once we were there, that was sort of when, you know, we stole the Kurdish allies that, hey, you guys can go back to go back home, and then at that point us, we're only there a few days before us conventional forces. Now this is a couple months into the war, but us conventional forces made their way up there, and, you know, started doing stabilizing the city, and it was probably best to get the Kurdish militia out of there at that point, for things between the Kurds and the Arabs continue to deteriorate. So yeah, but it was a it was a great experience for me being with the Kurds and helping them, you know, sort of move through and retake towns that they had historically lived in. And, you know, along the way we passed and were able to clear Assyrian monastery that's on one of the mountains on the route to Mosul. So some, definitely, some history along the way, history lessons along the way. I Michael Hingson ** 49:38 had the pleasure of going to Israel last year in August, okay? And spent a day in Jerusalem, so we got to go to the Western Wall and so on. And I really appreciated, and do appreciate, the history and just the awesomeness of of being there and touching the the temple and the wall that's been there for so long. And, you know, there is so much history over there that I really wish people would more appreciate and and on all sides, would figure out how they could become better at working with each other. One of these days, there's going to have to be peace, or it's going to really get a whole lot worse, very quickly, Fred Dummar ** 50:21 yeah, for sure. Yeah, it was. It was interesting, though, when we were there, obviously watching the various groups of, you know, Syrians, Kurds, Arabs and others that had various claims to different parts of Mosul and different parts of the area around it. So it's fascinating, you know, to watch history try and unwind itself from some of the decisions that were made. You know, post World War Two, when lines were being drawn in the desert to create countries and and the ramifications of that? Yeah. Well, Michael Hingson ** 51:06 you certainly have a perspective that's built on a lot of knowledge and being there, which I think is great on the other hand, well, not on the other hand. But then you left the military that that had to be a major change in terms of what you had been doing and what you were used to after almost 30 years. What's it like when you decide to make that kind of a major change and then, in your case, go back into civilian life? Yeah. So Fred Dummar ** 51:38 my first, my first step, wasn't that far away from the military. And I started referring it. Referred to my first job as sort of an addiction clinic, because I went, I went to work as a house, yeah, I went to work as a contractor, or, you know, defense contractor. I went back to Afghanistan for about a year and a half running training programs for some of the Afghan special operations forces. So, you know, it was, it was really, you know, there was, if I, if I was a heroin addict, you know, I was in the methadone clinic, you know, trying to, trying to get off of it. And then, yeah, I realized, you know, kind of needed to go home. And my marriage, you know, dissolved, and so it's like, Hey, I probably time to, like, go home and have, you know, a different kind of life. And I moved into a civilian job with a friend, a friend at the time, who was doing investment training around the world. And he's like, Hey, we, you know, I know you're, you will travel. There's a lot of people that, when I talk to him about travel, it's involved with our business, you know, they don't, don't really want to do that. And he's like, but I know, you know, from where you're at. And he's like, hey, I'll buy, buy a ticket. Fly to Hong Kong, see what our business is about. So I went there and learned about the investment training they were doing in Hong Kong and throughout Southeast Asia. And then they had an office in Johannesburg, and, you know, one in London, Canada and the US and doing all this training. And so for about a year, little over a year, I worked in that business and and learned, you know, the various things that they were doing. You know how they were teaching people to invest in real estate and stocks and that sort of thing. Started doing it myself less, as I wish I would have known earlier in my life, but started doing that, and then when I left that company, that's a lot of what I've been doing. I've taken some smaller jobs and smaller contract projects. But by and large, that's basically what I've been doing since then, is, you know, working in real estate investing or real estate projects Michael Hingson ** 53:50 and continuing to hone your leadership skills. Yeah, Fred Dummar ** 53:54 yeah. Well, you know, I kept continue to work with or a couple of, you know, jobs where I was helping people start up businesses, you know, as either in CEO role or in an operations role to help help them start their businesses. So I did some of that which, which is always fun. It's great working with new talent and establishing procedures and helping people grow that way. So that was, that was really fun. And then got to be part of a couple of nonprofits, Special Forces, Charitable Trust, probably my longest stint. I did that for, you know, about seven or eight years on the board of directors, you know, running, helping to develop activities and programs to support our Special Forces veteran. So, yeah, it was, it's been, it's been fun. And then obviously having a new family and spending a lot of time in my role as a dad has been probably the most rewarding. Michael Hingson ** 54:53 Yeah, I bet. And that is, that's always so much fun, and you get to help bring some. New people along into the world and hopefully help to make a difference that way. And on top of that, you continue to study. You're getting a PhD. You mentioned it earlier, but you're getting a PhD in organizational psychology and leadership. There we go with the leadership again. Fred Dummar ** 55:14 Yeah, you know, it's, it's fun, because, you know, when I do get the opportunity to speak at events. I move around and speak at different events. I know you do a lot of speaking. You probably do much more than I do, but the events I do speak at, I want to make sure that sometimes being a practitioner of something doesn't always mean that you have the exact language or the academic credentials to go along with being a practitioner. And I've been a practitioner of leadership for so many years, but now studying it and applying, you know, one working towards an academic credential in this says, Hey, this, this guy knows what he's talking about. But then also having, you know, the the latest developments. And studies on leading people effectively and and how people are doing it wrong, and how you can help them. I think it's, it's been, it's been, been a great journey to be on as well, especially keeping my mind active in in all things leadership and helping organizations do it better. Michael Hingson ** 56:21 Well, you, you have been a leader for a long time, but now you're studying it. Would you say that you're also discovering new things along the way? And you know, I guess what I'm getting at is, of course, none of us are ever so much an expert that we can't afford to learn more things. Oh Fred Dummar ** 56:39 yeah, for sure, both, both learning new things, learning why I might have done things wrong based on, you know, studies, you know, like, okay, you know, if you if you have this type of personality, you might do this wrong, or things I was doing right, but not exactly, knowing all of, You know all of the mechanisms that were going into why I was making that decision. But you know, when you look at the psychology behind it, and you look at organizational structure structures, you look at cultural artifacts within organizations, then you can start to you start to unwind why teams do what they do, why leaders are developed, the way they're developed, and why people make certain decisions. And, yeah, it's been fascinating, you know, and then also looking back, as you said, back at things that you did, decisions that you made, and what you know, what you could have done better as you as you look that, through that, and how you can help someone else, and that's also really helped me further, you know, synthesize down this way that I look at at leading people with with love and compassion and why it's so important to be that servant type of leader, you know, not just a transformational leader that's trying to transform an organization to move that, but then, you know, how do you serve and care for the care for the people that are that are going to be part of that transformation? Michael Hingson ** 58:10 Yeah, because if you are just looking at it from the standpoint of being a transformational leader, I'm going to change this organization that that doesn't really work. And I think that the most important aspect is being a servant leader, is being a person who serves, because that also opens you up to learning along the way and learning how to serve better. Fred Dummar ** 58:34 Yeah. And you know, as I learned in the many organizations that I was part of over, you know, my time in Special Forces is, you know, just because, you know, alluding, you know, we were discussing roles, and I was saying, you know, this officer's role to often, to plan and to lead, but that other people are the experts. And that's something you know. The sooner you embrace that fact, the faster, the faster you become effective, and the more effective you are when you realize that understanding the people and and caring and serving them, and then getting their their best performance and understanding what they know and what they can do, and where you need to put them to maximize their potential, then those things start to become the most important thing that you're doing, how you know, how people play against each other, who works well with who? How that works, how that betters the organization. Those are all, all all things that are fascinating, you know, to me, and things that kept me up at night, trying to figure out, you know, how to how to be more efficient, how to take better care of people, while, you know, getting, not only getting the best out of them, but them, realizing they were giving their best and being happy and proud of what they. Were doing Michael Hingson ** 1:00:01 and getting the best out of you as well. Fred Dummar ** 1:00:03 Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, bringing the best out of them is bringing the best out of me, right? Michael Hingson ** 1:00:08 So you've gotten work also in the nonprofit sector. You're continuing to do that, yeah, Fred Dummar ** 1:00:13 yeah, yeah. Now, after leaving this Special Forces Charitable Trust, I realized, you know, after I'd moved out to Idaho, where I live now that I wasn't as connected to the regiment as I'd been my first retired and I was still kind of in the North Carolina area or but after moving out here, you know, just felt like that. I probably there were other guys more recently retired, knew more of the things that needed to be done. So stepping down from that organization. And then, obviously, one of the other things that happened was, you know, the the rapid withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and the fall of Afghanistan, and I found myself with many other Afghan veterans, sort of, you know, both wondering, you know what it all meant, why? You know, and then, but then also what we can do. You know, not dwelling too long. I know, you know, poor me. You know what? You know. Why did I go? What did it mean? But more so, hey, you know, we had a bunch of people that we made promises to, a bunch of people that follow alongside America, some certainly, you know, in the interest of Afghanistan. But there were also many, many of the especially on the Afghan Special Operations sides, that were not always necessarily doing things at the behest of the Afghan government, but operating with US forces on things that the US wanted to do, but then, you know, we're sort of left hanging when during the withdrawal. So, you know, working alongside other veterans to try and get as many of those people out during the withdrawal and then. But so now I work with an operation or a organization called Operation recovery that is still following these families, following these cases, people that are either still in Afghanistan, some in hiding, some in other countries, illegally, but trying to help them resolve visa issues and either get to Canada or the United States or someplace in Europe, just someplace safe for them and their family, away from the from the Taliban. And so that's been it, and it's, it's hard work, you know, because the in work like that, we're trying to make government bureaucracies realize that they should be issuing visas or allowing people to move, it's not always a rapid process. So feels like, and, you know, and I'm not pointing fingers as if anyone should still, you know, be completely focused on Afghanistan. But you know, other things happen. You know, Ukraine, the war in Ukraine draws attention away. You know, the war in Israel. You know, hurricanes, storms, everything that's going on. You know, Assassination comes. You know, assassination attempts, you know, all of that stuff diverts people's you know, draws people attend. You know their attention to that. And I'm not sure many people, you know, they support the troops. And you know, you often hear them, you know, you know, thanking troops for their service. And the only response I can have to that, you know, for for for years, I struggled with how to respond to that. When someone would say, Thank you for your service, you know, just Okay, thank you. You know, I don't know, thanks for your support, but you know, I heard a good response, and I've been using it since, and it's like, America's worth it. So, Michael Hingson ** 1:03:54 yeah, on top of everything else that you do, you've also been dabbling or going into real estate a little bit, yeah, Fred Dummar ** 1:04:01 yeah. So that's, that's a lot of what I've been doing, you know, for because, you know, providing for your family, right? So, yeah, I started doing some investment real estate, and out here, got a partner, we did, worked on a couple of mobile home parts, larger projects. And I still, once a week, I still teach a clas

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Folge 258: "Mehr als Geld: Warum ich jetzt Zufriedenheit der schnellen finanziellen Freiheit vorziehe" - Interview mit David Frank (Jung in Rente)

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 28, 2025 68:55

Nach über vier Jahren kehrt David Frank vom Blog "Jung in Rente" zurück und teilt seine tiefgreifenden persönlichen Erfahrungen und Veränderungen, die er seit ihrem letzten Gespräch durchlebt hat. Im Mittelpunkt des Interviews stehen seine Entscheidung für ein Sabbatical, die Auseinandersetzung mit einer Sinnkrise, die Umstellung seines Portfolios und der Wandel seiner Perspektive auf finanzielle Freiheit.Vor über vier Jahren war David Frank zu Gast im Finanzrocker-Podcast. Damals sprach er ausführlich darüber, wie er sein Ziel erreichen wollte, früh in Rente zu gehen. Seitdem hat sich in Davids Leben viel verändert. In dieser Folge diskutieren wir Davids Entscheidung für ein Sabbatical und die tiefgreifenden Veränderungen, die er in den letzten Jahren erlebt hat. Was bedeutet es, sich bewusst Zeit für sich selbst zu nehmen? Wie beeinflusst eine Sinnkrise die persönliche und finanzielle Lebensgestaltung? David teilt seine Erfahrungen und reflektiert über den Wert von Glück, Zufriedenheit und die Suche nach einem erfüllten Leben.Zusätzlich sprechen wir in 65 Minuten über seine aktuellen Anlagestrategien, den Übergang von Einzelaktien zu ETFs und die interessante Welt des Impact Investing. David bietet uns Einblicke in seine neuen Projekte und wie sich seine Perspektive auf Geld und Finanzen verändert hat.Freut euch auf ein inspirierendes und ehrliches Gespräch, das nicht nur für Finanzinteressierte von Bedeutung ist, sondern für alle, die über ihr Leben nachdenken. Viel Spaß beim Zuhören!ShownotesZum Blog "Jung in Rente"Zum gemeinnützigen Projekt "Wilde Wälder"Zur Webseite "Alle Dividenden"Zum ersten Interview mit DavidZum neuen YouTube-Video "Wann Aktien verkaufen?"Präsentiert von Wechselpilot2024 lag die Inflationsrate bei 2,2 %. Die Energiepreise sind 2024 um 3,2 % gesunken, nachdem sie 2023 um 5,3 % und 2022 um 29,7 % gestiegen waren. Trotz dieser Entspannung sind die Preise insgesamt stark gestiegen. 2025 kannst du Energie sparen, indem du Wechselpilot nutzt. Dieser Service wechselt jährlich zu den besten Verträgen, spart hunderte Euro und benötigt keinen Aufwand. Mit dem Code "Rocker20" erhältst du 20€ Cashback beim ersten Wechsel.Wenn Du Dich jetzt selbst von den Qualitäten von Wechselpilot überzeugen willst, schau einfach mal unter folgendem Link vorbei.Weitere interessante InterviewsMit über 100 Einzelaktien auf dem Weg zur Rente mit 50 – Interview mit Beamteninvestor Ben Offenberger„Mit 40 in Rente“ – Interview mit Oliver Noelting von FrugalistenFinanzielle Erkenntnisse vom Highway: Was ich vom 2. USA-Roadtrip über Aktien und Finanzen lernte (Special-Folge) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Episode 152: David Frank

Falconry Chronicles Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 28, 2025 74:37

This last episode that was recorded in Wyoming early 2024 brings you David Frank, resident of Sheridan and owner of Western Sporting. Many of you listening have probably ordered from Western Sporting before, and this episode will give you the chance to hear more about David and his history. In particular, David talks about his early experiences as an animal trainer, taking advantage of an opportunity to live and work in England and also hawk in Scotland, and of course, and many other things. David and Western Sporting have generously donated items to many state club raffles, including ours in Indiana, so if you've never given them any of your business, please consider heading to westernsporting.com next time you have any falconry supply or book needs! Sign up to support and/or receive extra content at buymeacoffee.com/falconrychroniclesSpecial thanks to the organizations and businesses who've kindly helped support the podcast!The Archives of Falconryhttp://www.falconry.orgMarshall Radio Telemetryhttp://www.marshallradio.comMasters of the Skieshttp://www.mastersoftheskies.orgBaba Yaga Craftshttp://www.instagram.com/babayagagoshawkNorth Mountain Goshawkshttp://www.northmountaingoshawks.comNew Mexico Falconers AssociationArizona Falconers Assocationhttp://www.arizonafalconers.comTexas Hawking Associationhttp://www.texashawking.orgNorth American Falconers Associationhttp://www.n-a-f-a.comFalconry Fundhttp://www.falconryfund.orgPursuit Falconry and Conservation Magazinehttp://pursuitfalconry.co.ukThe Specialist Falconhttp://www.thespecialistfalcon.comCape Falconry Clubhttp://www.capefalconry.co.zaEast Coast Falconshttp://www.eastcoastfalcons.comBlackhawk Falconry Dachshundshttps://www.facebook.com/blackhawkdachshunds

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Intelligent Waveforms 096

Intelligent Waveforms

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 21, 2024 119:54

Intelligent Waveforms 096 - 2024 December 21 Tracklist: 1. 00:00:00 - Intelligent Waveforms Intro (Meza) 2. 00:01:02 - Radiant (Daniel Kandi_s Bangin_ Extended Mix) (Ruben De Ronde, David Frank, Farius) 3. 00:05:00 - Catch (Extended Mix) (Davey Asprey) 4. 00:08:29 - Momentum (Extended Mix) (Faith Mark) 5. 00:12:11 - Hammerfall (Extended Mix) (Kenny Palmer) 6. 00:16:18 - Breaking Bright (Extended Mix) (Ishiro) 7. 00:20:40 - Shooting Stars (Original Mix) (Gayax) 8. 00:24:20 - The Unknown (Extended Mix) (Aly & Fila, Lostly) 9. 00:27:59 - Rave Like an Angel (Extended Mix) (MakeFlame) 10. 00:31:45 - Coming Home (Extended Full Fire Mix) (Roman Messer) 11. 00:35:10 - North Pole (Extended Mix) (Mikhail Tseslyuk) 12. 00:39:17 - Close My Eyes (Extended Mix) (Calvin O'Commor) 13. 00:43:28 - Losing Control (Extended Mix) (Extended Mix) (Paul Stevens) 14. 00:49:25 - Stellar (Extended Mix) (Ayda) 15. 00:53:28 - Trio (Extended Mix) (Aleksey Gunichev, Sergey Salekhov, Andrew Mirt) 16. 00:58:20 - Future Flight (Extended Mix) (Ciro Visone, Dj X-Tromic) 17. 01:01:04 - Levitate (Original Mix) (Metta & Glyde) 18. 01:04:37 - Building Bridges (Extended Mix) (Rene Ablaze, BiXX, Sharon Valerona) 19. 01:08:03 - Euphoria (Extended Club Mix) (Andrew Rayel, Emilya Buchan) 20. 01:12:10 - Toca_s Miracle (Extended Mix) (Talla 2xlc, Fragma) 21. 01:16:06 - The Void (Extended) (Alternate High) 22. 01:19:45 - Sebyuk (Extended Mix) (Casepeat, Luminance (US)) 23. 01:24:35 - Safari (Extended Mix) (Terra, Omiki) 24. 01:29:23 - King_s Prophecy (Extended Mix) (Ahmed Helmy) 25. 01:33:05 - Chasing Dreams (Extended Mix) (Escea) 26. 01:37:26 - High Street (Astrix Remix) (Charlotte de Witte) 27. 01:41:08 - Bittersweet (Extended Mix) (XiJaro & Pitch) 28. 01:44:32 - Devotion (Extended Mix) (John O_Callaghan, Alex Holmes) 29. 01:48:39 - Friends (Extended Mix) (Turker Ozsoy) 30. 01:51:51 - Timeless (Extended Mix) (Aimoon, Sound-X-Monster) 31. 01:56:01 - Feel the Rush (Original Mix) (Artifi)

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#208 - Eric Kirk and David Frank

Growing Pains with Nicholas Flores

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 6, 2024 238:24

Nick sits down with Eric Kirk and David Frank to discuss Trump's presidential win, the war in Ukraine, the erosion of trust in our institutions, Israel/Palestine and more. 11/23/2024

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Episode 289 – Unstoppable Intuitive Spiritual Coach with Dr. Christine Balarezo

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 3, 2024 62:35

On this episode of Unstoppable Mindset we meet and get to talk with Dr. Christine Balarezo. While Christine was born in Peru much of her youth was spent in California and then Connecticut. During her life she has secured various college degrees including a Ph.D. in Political Science from the University of North Texas. She spent ten years working in the field of human trafficking. Later she worked briefly for a nonprofit organization. Christine was never fully satisfied with both working for other organizations and for working in academia. After her time with a nonprofit she decided to go out on her own. What she realized she was being directed by her inner self to do was to take up the job of more directly helping others. Christine became a spiritual coach and healer. Today as she explains she “helps creative sensitives reconnect to their true soul being by using her intuitive and psychic gifts with practical, multi- and interdisciplinary transcultural knowledge so they can fully shine their light”. Our conversation touches on many topics including the concepts of spiritual healing, psychic intuition and some of the fears and prejudices around these concepts. I hope you enjoy what Christine has to say. One thread I find both with this conversation as with so many we have had on Unstoppable Mindset is that we all should learn to be more open and curious to things we may not fully understand or embrace. About the Guest: Dr. Christine Balarezo is Founder of Christine Balarezo, which offers multidimensional spirituality services for clients around the world. She is an Intuitive Spiritual Coach, Energy Healer, Intuitive Astrologer, and Educator. She helps creative sensitives reconnect to their true soul being by using her intuitive and psychic gifts with practical, multi- and interdisciplinary transcultural knowledge so they can fully shine their light. Christine loves working with diverse groups of people especially those with multidimensional identities and/or overlapping intersectionalities, neurodivergents, HSPs, BIPOC, single parents, immigrants, witches and healers. In a past life, she was a human trafficking scholar with ten years of experience in the field, and with expertise in mixed-methods trafficking and policy research. Christine began her career in academia serving as an Adjunct Professor of Political Science, and a Fulbright Postdoctoral Research Scholar, where she conducted fieldwork across Israel on its human trafficking policy. She also had a brief stint in the nonprofit world supporting national anti-trafficking efforts. As a multicultural Latina and single mother, she is also passionate about mentoring and continues working with vulnerable populations within the mental health, metaphysical, and higher education fields. Christine received her Ph.D. in Political Science from the University of North Texas, and her M.A. in Political Science from the University of South Florida. Christine's goal is to provide practical yet cosmic guidance - balancing the scales, that is - so people can live a life that is true to them and their heart. When she's not helping others or talking about energy, she loves traveling and exploring new places, cooking Peruvian and Asian food, spending time with her college son, walking their two dachshunds, and finding new books to read at the library. Ways to connect with Dr. Christine: Email: christine@christinebalarezo.com Join My Newsletter: https://sendfox.com/christinebalarezo Grab a Virtual Coffee & Let's Chat: https://tidycal.com/christinebalarezo/cafecito-connection-chat Website: https://christinebalarezo.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinebalarezo46/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ChristineBalarezo Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/christinebalarezo About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today we have the pleasure of talking with Dr Christine Balarezo and Christine, well, what can I tell you about Christine? She has founded a company called Christine Valery so and she offers multi dimensional spirituality and coaching. And I'm not going to go into it all, because it's more fun to hear it from her than to hear it from me. Anyway, so I'm just going to say, Christine, I really want to welcome you to and thank you for coming on unstoppable mindset. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 02:00 Thank you so much, Michael. I'm really grateful and excited to be here and to converse with you and simply see wherever we go in this conversation. Well, it'll be fun. Michael Hingson ** 02:12 And yeah, who knows where we're going to go? It'll it'll be fun. I've got lots of questions I can think of, and I'm sure you have lots of things to say. Let's start with something that should be pretty easy. Tell us about, kind of the early Christine, growing up and so on, and kind of maybe how you got where you are today. But let's start with sort of the the early Christine, Dr Christine Belarezo ** 02:32 absolutely. So I'm Christine, as many of you know, most people call me this. I was born in Peru to Peruvian parents, but my mom came here when she was 16, to the United States, to Connecticut, specifically, and then she went back to Peru and met my dad. And I was born there during the time of a civil war, and my parents realized that they had wanted to live somewhere else, perhaps maybe with more stability and see a different type of lifestyle. So they first moved to California, and eventually we ended up in Connecticut, and that's where I spent my earlier years. I grew up on the Long Island Sound in Connecticut, where my grandparents had already come beforehand, and they established a restaurant, and that's where I saw my formative years. It was a very different, I think, way of living, because since then, I've moved I also have a twin sister, and it was, again, a different way of for me growing up, perhaps coming from another culture and blending that into where I grew up in, which was predominantly homogenous, so there wasn't too much diversity, and I learned to navigate different types of people and experiences. And long story short, we're speeding it up here in high school, I moved to Florida, which opened up to a completely new culture, different experiences, and my main goal in life was to work with other cultures and other people. And I initially wanted to pursue a line in diplomacy, and that's what I was working towards beforehand. With my background in political science, I really wanted to help people. I really wanted to focus on peace and bringing together, perhaps some type of mediation resolution in countries that experienced a lot of instability, a lot of conflict. But I think life had other plans. Michael Hingson ** 04:36 That happens a lot, doesn't it? Right? There's Dr Christine Belarezo ** 04:38 that saying, you know, when you plan something, sometimes God or whatever your beliefs are, there's something that changes your plans. I'm like, Oh, I plan things. So to the T and I realized things are changing, and I'm going to have to also pivot. And I became a single parent. I'm a mom to a beautiful boy when I was still completing my undergraduate. IT career, and so that definitely changed my trajectory. And I know in diplomacy, especially the route that I wanted to go into, it entails a lot of traveling, and sometimes you have to go to locations where you may not be able to bring family. And I knew I didn't want that. So I reformulated, and I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna have to go down a different path. And I realized I may not be able to do that particular line of work, but I still wanted to pursue something to help people, so I pivoted to human rights. And that just opened up because human rights is very broad. It encompasses so many types of groups, so many types of individual rights, civil political liberties, among many other types of perhaps freedoms that we have here in the United States, that we may obviously take for granted, but that are not always present in other countries. And I pursued that path with obviously completing my Bachelor's, my master's, and then my doctorate, and then I changed. I was like, maybe I'll consider academia, and I'll just tell you. Fast forward, many years later, I just started feeling like I couldn't help people in the way that I wanted to because I was not working one on one with people in the way that I felt that I could help them. A lot of it had to do with, maybe more abstract, theoretical types of support and aid. And sometimes I felt like I was lost in that bubble, because academia and sometimes some of the work people do human rights, and it depends, but the line that I was on, it just felt disconnected. I'm like, Where are the people? Why am I? Why am I doing more research and talking about more theory and presenting at conferences? But I don't feel like I'm having the effect that I can to help people navigate in this world. So I went through a period of disillusionment, of feeling very lost, very disconnected and questioning myself. Is this the path that I'm meant to be on? Is this something that my heart is truly connecting to? And I realized it wasn't, and I tried, because of all of the work that I've done, I feel like this was so similar to so many other people that I've spoken to. I'm like, let me see how I can salvage all of this experience, all of my hard work. And I pivoted to the nonprofit in a similar background in human rights, particularly human trafficking, and I tried. I was like, You know what? Let's continue doing what I did in a different way. I just felt like my life was disappearing, and that was not a very positive experience for me, though I learned a lot, really grateful, because something I think that you touch upon in many of your episodes with other folks and even with your own personal story, Michael, is challenges. As humans, we experience a lot of challenges, and it's your attitude that really defines the next step, and I realized this wasn't probably the best, maybe most highlighting or illuminating experience of my life, but I learned something here in this space, and that pivoted me to creating my business eventually, a few years later. Michael Hingson ** 08:16 And what is the new business about compared to what you'd been doing so Dr Christine Belarezo ** 08:20 prior, I was really delving into human rights, human trafficking, conflict to an extent too, and working more from that theoretical, academic, research oriented, and also teaching perspective. And I completely crossed the bridge to something very different, and I entered more into the spiritual realm. And this is a broad term, because it encompasses many different elements. Some people say metaphysical. Could say occult, but it was a very non traditional, or maybe alternative field that I never thought that this was something I was going to pivot to, and it connects to a lot of what I experienced in my life, things that I was healing, and that came up for me to heal, especially after leaving that a toxic job, and it provoked a lot of things in such a fast, perhaps accelerated way that made me realize I'm being called to do something on a scale where I might not feel completely comfortable yet, because there was a lot of foreign perhaps feelings or just emotions. When you sit with them like this is new. I kind of felt like a kindergartner, because I was essentially re crafting my identity, who I was and what I was doing. And it's so easy to become attached to who you are, whether, again, it's a political scientist or a teacher, whatever it is, and that's what happened with me. I had to unravel, undo, unlearn a former Christine and completely step into this new role of what my own heart was calling me towards. So my own business focuses on helping people connect to. They really are and learning to trust themselves. And you mentioned this perhaps when we opened up Michael about listening to your intuition of what you're feeling and sensing. And sometimes it's scary, because it may be telling you or bringing up to you, it's time to go. It's time to leave. It's time to end this way of being or doing, existing or identifying, and a lot of times our human selves are like, we're going to hang on. Michael Hingson ** 10:29 Well, give me a little bit more if you would insight into so exactly, what is it then that that you do now, as opposed to kind of what you were doing before, Dr Christine Belarezo ** 10:38 well before it was training and helping people in human trafficking, whether it was understanding what the dynamics were, educating students through coursework examples, for example, and now I connect with people generally, one on one through a Coaching environment where I help people transform different obstacles or different experiences that they want to overcome. A lot of it has to do with shining or empowering themselves, showing up as who they who they are, excuse me, and also grappling with anything around fear, whether it's fear of the unknown, fear of change or fear of anything alternative, especially if they have followed a certain paradigm or belief system or religion or a philosophy. And it's like, I feel like I may have gifts in certain areas. Perhaps you can call them psychic gifts, or seeing or sensing things. And I work with people to also harness that. And I do that through through different modalities, intuitive, spiritual coaching when we work one on one, and it's really at the bottom root, it's not therapy. It's a lot about asking questions, because we're focused on solutions and moving forward. It's very forward or future oriented. And we do glean to the past to inform, but we don't stay there. And I incorporate also my own gifts, again, my intuitive and psychic gifts to help people through the questions that I ask, because ultimately, I believe everyone knows and has the answers to what they need and what they know is best for them. It's called our intuition. People know that for many reasons, a lot of times we feel stuck. We don't see things. We may feel like things are unclear, and it's simply getting rid of the noise or chaos around us. So there's a lot of simplifying on so many different layers, and that's what I help people do, because sometimes we have to zero in and it's helpful because other people can see things you don't always see. Michael Hingson ** 12:42 So how do you how do you do that? How do you get somebody unstuck or open to thinking about doing something or reacting in a different way than they have? A Dr Christine Belarezo ** 12:54 lot of it takes awareness first. You have to be aware first of maybe any disconnection or what I call similar to what we used to coin in political science, relative deprivation. Sometimes you're seeing things from a certain perspective, where what it is that you want, but where it is that you are existing, or perhaps acknowledging there is some type of distance there. And that's where people maybe fall into a point of suffering, because they're trying to resolve things with what they know, what they've brought in their current belief systems. I call it Life suitcase. Basically everything they know up to that point they're still holding on. And what I do generally, for example, in the first session, I ask a lot of questions about the background, why they're coming to me, what their goals are, what's been going on, to learn a little bit more about who they are as a person, too, but more importantly, where they want to move, what direction generally. And through these questionings that come up a lot of it's intuitive, because once people start talking to me, and even beforehand, I just the best way to explain this is I just get, like a knowing and questions come to me that help unlock some of this for people where they say, Wow, I didn't even realize it about myself. This is what has been holding me back, or this is why I feel scared around this particular issue or being seen. So a lot of it is it happens organically. It happens through me, conversing one on one with people, and all those lines, they connect kind of like connected dot. There's a game. I don't recall a name, but it's a kin of, okay, we have one nugget that has appeared, and we keep following the rest. And I wish I could say this happens in 24 hours, or in a week, where people are like, okay, I'm good to go. We've got it. I'm unstuck. Generally, it happens, I would say, over a period of time, and it depends with everyone. Because, again, awareness is key here. And my point is not to tell people this is what you're doing wrong, or this is what you need to see. Is to help people see that for themselves. Michael Hingson ** 15:02 Uh, spiritual healing and transformation is something that probably a lot of people look down on. They say that there's nothing really to all that, but leaving what people think aside and maybe, maybe not. But what are the major blocks, or roadblocks, and how do you get past that to say, look, there really is something to be said for this whole idea of you can transform yourself, you can heal yourself. And doing spiritual healing techniques is an IS and ought to be a very important part of what you do. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 15:40 Thank you for that question. Those were things that I pondered myself, and what I have found that generally, in whatever modality you choose, it's important to know that I and others, in whatever tool you use, it's a facilitation. I'm not here to tell you. I'm going to heal you. I have a magic wand. I'm a fairy godmother from a Disney movie, and poof, you're going to come out of this 100% yield. But what I can tell you is many of the factors, or many of the challenges or blocks, as you name them, that come up for people, they're universal themes around fear, doubt, allowing ourselves to be seen a certain way or to express a certain way. In other words, maybe stepping into what it is that we feel passionate about. And a lot of times I tell people, what makes you excited, what makes you joyful, or what brings up those feelings of, oh, I can't wait to do this. I want to go into this, because that's also telling you a lot about where you might want to go next. And I want to speak a little bit more about the fear and doubt, because, again, depending on many factors, where you've grown up, your family, your society, your culture. And I'll say that broadly speaking, because culture is very multifaceted, multi dimensional, we have a lot of layers that we may be undoing and we may be relearning things, perhaps setting boundaries, speaking up for ourselves, realizing, Wait, I can put my needs first before others, or I can say no, I can also know and realize it's okay to be afraid most of the times, many things that we do, even if we're passionate about them, there could be some fear, like maybe speaking in front of a crowd, You can feel that through your different senses, people get butterflies in their stomach, right? You feel a sensation, or even when you are doing something for the first time that is new, people generally feel it in their body first. So fear is an element. I feel that it's always present. It's about realizing taking that first step forward, no matter how small is, what's going to eventually help dissipate that. And what I have found is not thinking about that long term picture, because a lot of people, and I think it's very perhaps human of us, we want to know the whole picture. If we're leaving a job, we want to know all the steps and what our next job is going to be and what exactly we are going to do. And we want to have that outlined akin to a board game where we want all the answers, because that gives us control. It gives us safety, it provides security, and it allows us to say, well, we can follow the steps because they're already here. And what I've come to realize working with some of the people that I've worked with is many of them are on paths where there aren't steps in front of them, they're doing things that are very different, perhaps different from their family systems, different from their society or culture, or completely different, like I did, where I didn't really have other steps in front of me to follow. There was no manual or rule book. And so a lot of these challenges about overcoming these blocks, they first start with that awareness that I mentioned, and then taking, I call them many action steps. They don't have to be big and they don't have to necessitate planning, and I think that's key, and it's important to remember and in this process itself. Michael Hingson ** 18:53 So in in dealing with all of this, I know you talk a lot about the whole concept of spiritual connection. What? What exactly is that? And I think maybe the real question is, why is spiritual connection so very important, and how do we really work toward getting there? Dr Christine Belarezo ** 19:18 You squeezed in three questions. In one, Michael Hingson ** 19:19 okay, Dr Christine Belarezo ** 19:21 I love that. I'm the same way. It's like little sub button, you know, something that, Michael Hingson ** 19:27 what can I say? What can I say? I don't mind it at all. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 19:31 I think it's a they just they pop out. That's how it works with me, too. I get questions that pop out in very much the same way. And right now, so many changes have been happening, I would say, in such an accelerated speed in many different areas of our lives, and connecting to so many people, whether it's neighbors or clients or friends and family, there's very resonant themes where some excuse me, where people are going through some. In their life, or several something. And a lot of this has to do with coming back to self. And when you mentioned what is spiritual connection, it's simply your connection to something higher, a belief system. Many people call this god. It could be universe, spirit, source, energy, or even your higher self. It varies. I usually just say God for myself, but it's a higher energy source. And realizing sometimes there's a lot of things we as humans want to control. We want to dictate how things will go. We will push and resist. We'll try to fit everything in our suitcase. And when things don't go that way, when the suitcase pops open and we have challenges, the more we resist, the more we suffer, because we're trying to make things happen in our own way. And as humans, we only have a limited ability for certain things to go in that way, except for our mindset, our beliefs, our thoughts, our attitudes. And so the spiritual connection is something bigger you may not always understand, you may not always see, but you you can feel it, and that's something you can cultivate and nurture. And a lot of people have been turning to that, I would say, especially post pandemic, when so many things fell apart, that perhaps is another conversation, but so many things were brought up for people. Am I truly happy doing what I'm doing? Am I in the right relationships? I feel like I'm supposed to be moving on to something else, etc. So many questions came up, and people I found were feeling lost because they were placing a lot of this outside of themselves, perhaps in institutions, in different people. And when those things dissolve, what do you have? And that goes on to the next question is, well, why? Why the spiritual connection? Because the connection we have with God, with the universe, with source, and generally with something divine. We may not always see, but we feel it, something that can never be taken away from us. And I like to relate, relate it almost like an umbilical cord. Think of all of us being in imaginary little bubbles. We all have our own connection to this source, to this divinity that cannot be taken away. And I've been mentioned mentioning this frequently with people. You may have read the book by Victor Frankel in answer for meaning about his experiences in the concentration camps and something he brings about, which you also talk about too, is your attitude towards life, your thoughts, your beliefs, and how that can dramatically change how it is you navigate through life in general, but also challenges. And that's something too with the spiritual connection that can help nurture this too, because you again don't, we don't always have the answers to everything. And the moment where we say, You know what, I give this up to either something higher or I surrender this. More importantly, I'm leaning into faith and hope that things are going to work out in the way that they can. And that's a that brings in a level of acceptance, which doesn't mean that you acknowledge and you say, I'm happy. These challenges are, are are going on in my life, or the others are experiencing this? No, it's simply saying, okay, it is what it is. This has occurred. I can't, can't change it. What can I do moving forward? And for me, one of the best ways that I have found to cultivate or nurture the spiritual connection is by learning how to take time to embrace solitude. And that's again, something that many folks experience with the pandemic. We heard a lot of either anecdotal stories and narratives where people realized, quote, unquote, I found myself, or I realized this is what I wanted in life. Or lot of people saw the duality of the lives they were living before and the lives they were currently living, and how much control a lot of folks had to give up during the pandemic, where they realized I need to make changes, and this is the direction that I feel like I'm being called into and for me, the best way that I saw, perhaps this is what the pandemic. I tend to look for silver linings in hardships and challenges, so in reflection to the pandemic. For instance, one of the things that I saw, that it brought to all of us was how to lean into solitude, how not to be afraid of your own self, your own fears or things that are changing. Michael Hingson ** 24:25 You know, you said something interesting about people wanting to control everything and they can't. Why can't they so? And that's an interesting discussion. You could you could immediately say, Well, what about things like the pandemic? We didn't have control over the pandemic. And, yeah, that's true. We didn't have control over the pandemic happening. But like with anything, what we do have control over is how we deal with things like the pandemic. So in in terms of that, what can we learn to have better control over the things that occur in our lives, or or, can we Dr Christine Belarezo ** 25:14 That's a big question, and I do think we can find safety and security in ways or different things we can control, namely, again, what's within us. Think about our circle or bubble of influence, and a lot of it pertains to ourselves, how we react, how we view things right, like putting on maybe a different shirt, some people feel like when they wear something, a certain something, it feels different, and they may feel more confident or vibrant. Maybe it's the material. It honestly doesn't matter, but the way that we try to control things, it all relates down to safety and security. And I feel like the pandemic really blew that out of the waters for so many people, because, again, things just happen that we may not even understand fully. And for me, my own personal belief, I do believe in an afterlife, and I do believe that when our physical bodies end here, we continue on in Adriatic form. And so some people, we may not understand that until that time. We may never understand it, but so many things happen so quickly that we're forced to confront a lot of things that may have been left untouched unseen. That's why there was a lot of healing that came up for people, generally and individually around so many topics, and what I've told folks repeatedly, and also what I've learned my own self, because I didn't come into this world thinking, You know what? I don't need to react to this. I have to learn this too as a human. A lot of this has to do with, again, how we approach things, and that can be something that's difficult to learn because we're unlearning different behaviors that were inculcated from our own family systems, from the way we've grown up, from society and the way we navigated and many of us tapping in to these different issues or problems that have come up. We're adults. I never questioned this when I was five years old, I didn't question, Should I be responsive or reactive at this time? Why am I losing control over this? That's why it's beautiful. Children have a different way of approaching things. If something doesn't work, they may express it through their emotions, right? Tantrums? That's one way they express this energetically. Then they go about like, two minutes later, playing they carry on with adults. We tend to hold on to that and maybe perhaps over identify with some of these things that are not controllable. Michael Hingson ** 27:53 Well. The other part about it is that as we are dealing with things that happened to us. It seems to be that we can learn to be better prepared for things to happen to us. And what I'm kind of saying about that is all right, so let's take the pandemic. We didn't predict it. Probably couldn't predict it. Well, I'm pretty sure we couldn't predict it, but so many people just were going around trying to figure out what to do with themselves. The government wasn't helping with that. For a while, we got a lot of mixed messages, but at the same time, what comes to mind is that we could learn more about being able to face unexpected situations. I'm hesitant to use the word control, but we certainly but we really can learn to control how we deal with them, but we don't learn and and have been, in a sense, spoiled, and don't learn how to deal with things that we don't expect to happen. And the result of that is that, because we don't learn anything or give thought to it when something happens, then we don't have, or we haven't created, the tools to deal with it. Does that make sense? Dr Christine Belarezo ** 29:29 Absolutely, and I will say I agree with all the points that you made, but there are many people that have pivoted and were able sure to change, or perhaps to move with the ways, with the pandemic as a prime example, because they've experienced a lot of different changes in their own life, whether it was growing up in a dysfunctional home or simply maybe moving a lot, or changing schools, or whatever it is that entailed, it's time to adapt to a new way, to a new environment, perhaps to new people. Systems and institutions. So I heard from some folks that this pandemic, for many of them, they embraced it, especially maybe people that were more introverted or that really value that solitude. They really realized it's time for me to go out on my own, maybe work for myself or do things differently, because it created a massive shift in movement around how people work and interrelate Michael Hingson ** 30:24 well. And I think you're absolutely right. I think it's important that that we do more of that, and we we tend to fear, and we have allowed fear as an entity mostly to overwhelm us, or, as I put it, blind us, or paralyze us, whatever word you want to use, but overwhelm. And so when something happens that causes a fear reaction, we tend not to be able to face it very well, because we've never learned how to harness that fear and use it in a positive way, and I've talked about it before on this podcast, that that was one of the things that I was able to deal with on September 11, because I learned what to do in the case of an emergency, and it created a mindset within me that said, when Something did happen, okay, you know what the options are. Now assess your situation and then deal with the appropriate option based on the situation. Well, there are actually lots of options, because the situation was, there was fire in the building, but the fire wasn't anywhere near us. I knew that because my dog, my guide dog, Roselle, was giving absolutely no indication that she felt fear. And dogs have, I do believe, a much greater sense of some things than people do, and if she had sensed anything that caused her to be concerned, I would know it well she wasn't, which told me that whatever was going on wasn't such an imminent emergency that we couldn't evacuate in an orderly and calm way. And so I worked to get other people in the office calm and got them to the stairs. I didn't a colleague, David Frank did, but David was pretty worried and scared. And in fact, at one point, when I kept saying, slow down, don't panic, he said, You don't understand. You can't see what's going on outside. The problem was that David wasn't seeing what was going on inside, namely the dog that wasn't reacting. And I knew the dog, and I knew that that was part of my world that gave me information that I could use. If Roselle had been acting differently, we would have done things differently, but she wasn't well, so guests got to the stairs, and David and I went to the stairs, and we started down, and we went downstairs. But the bottom line is that it was because I had taken time in advance to prepare and didn't rely on reading signs and other things, that, as I said, it created a mindset. And I think that more often than not, we collectively as people, can learn how to deal with fear in a different way than we do, and that we can use fear as a tool to help heighten our senses, focus us and not overwhelm us and create a situation where we can't make decisions. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 33:33 Ditto. I loved your example, and I remember reading that and also hearing that about you and Roselle, when you were waiting and kind of feeling into results response, and that was your indicator of like, Okay, do we have anything to be alarmed or not? And that's the same. And I agree with you about animals, they have a high incense, I'll just say their own intuition, but also internal alarm rating that you can sense how animals behave a lot and see what's going on, because they pick up a lot of things, and we don't for so many, for so many reasons. And practicing this fear is key, knowing what you do and how you navigate the world, preparing yourself right, looking for emergency exits, knowing the layout, etc. That's one such way. And in certain circumstances, I think we can prepare to an extent, right? That's one amazing example, if you are traveling, if you're on the plane, if you're in a hotel or in your own home, you can prepare certain things, like safety procedures, making sure you have alternative ways to enter your home if you get locked out, whatever it is. And I think to an extent, we can prepare for certain situations. We see that with natural disasters, right? We can learn a lot from historical events or different types of conflicts. Yeah. But sometimes there's things that happen in our life that we may not always know how to prepare, and a lot of this taps into the emotional response. And something that I have found too is sometimes over preparing for things can induce anxiety in people, because it may provoke fears of, well, wait. What if this happens? And it's not so much about identifying with that potential situation or event that could happen, but simply having some, maybe some type of contingency plan or a backup plan where you can say, how would I approach this? Because when unexpected things happen in our lives, whether it's an unexpected relationship loss or grief that pops up a memory or even an event like you experienced with September 11. We may not always appear or know how to respond, even if we plan for it, but I love the example you gave, because it's an excellent, excellent way of practicing this. We can simply practice and lean into some of the fears by doing a little bit every day, and some may call it a form of exposure therapy. But the more we practice with the unknown, with changes, with navigating things that come in our life, I think the more it gives us that sense of empowerment and also perhaps a calm inner confidence, like, hey, whatever comes our way, we'll be able to navigate this. Michael Hingson ** 36:24 What I think is is really the issue is that it isn't necessarily planning for every contingency that that is difficult at best anyway, because there are so many contingencies that we don't necessarily know about, but we can learn to know ourselves. And we can learn to say, Okay, I observe this happening. And this is the kind of thing that can happen in an instant, if we work toward it, something does happen, and because we have learned to know ourselves, we've learned to know that we don't need to be afraid to the point where we can't make decisions. We've taught ourselves to be able to make positive or make some sort of decision. By observing those are things that if, if we teach ourselves how to do it, we can learn to very quickly, make the decision that would be best for us. And of course, part of that has to do with learning to listen to our inner selves. And I know one of the things that you talk about is people learning to interpret and understand their own psychic gifts. So how do people learn? Or how can we teach people to learn, to be able to harness and tap into their own intuitive and psychic gifts? Dr Christine Belarezo ** 37:59 That's, I think, such a fascinating question. And I it repeatedly comes up where so many people now are being put in situations that provoke or prompt this question. Because a lot of people we know and we feel it, that's the thing. It's another sense many people are leaning into now, is what's coming up in their body. It's almost when you meet someone. This is the best example of how you can tap into some of these intuitive and psychic gifts that everyone has, but some people choose not to nurture for many reasons, including fear. But ever meet someone, and it's just their presence, which is, you could say energy, but it's just the presence of a person, whether it's their voice, or when you shake hands with someone, or just being in their proximate vicinity, you may feel off. You may feel certain, certain something is not quite right, and a lot of people have mentioned in so many various circumstances, something feels off about that person. I can't put my finger on it, but I just don't feel comfortable. Or likewise, people come into a room and sometimes they're so full of vitality and life, and you just feel uplifted and energized. And we get certain sensations in different ways that everyone receives them. And that's the first point of our intuitive and psychic gifts, is realizing I'm feeling something. But many people, they're like, Nah, that can be right, or they just count it, or they dismiss it, as I'll say, especially with what I call red flags, right? When you feel something is off, or you're like, I'm not really sure this interaction is best for me or this job, or whatever the circumstance, it's only in retrospect. People are like. I knew it. I felt it. I felt the science. Because we don't see something come up in our inner mind where it tells us, okay, this computer is registering. This person is XYZ. We feel it. So the first step is. Really harnessing your gifts. For those that are just embracing them, they're popping up, or you're wanting to strengthen this is to start paying attention to these moments and to trust what you're feeling. A lot of times, I always suggest to people write them down, whether it's in your phone, in some type of computer application, or you can write it in a way that helps you, or you can a lot of you know what's interesting? I connect to a lot of people that like using video recorders, and they record. You know how some people like to express through journaling, right through words now, and that's another powerful way. But the point here is to take account and to start becoming aware of all those different instances where you may have discounted yourself, and more than likely, the majority of those times you were right, you had some type of feeling where you felt something was off, and that's one of the first things you have to become aware of that, because there's a level of trust that then comes in. Many people don't trust themselves. Or, like, No, this can't be right. Or they say, quote, unquote, I'm crazy, or I'm seeing things, or I'm making things up, or it's just me. Everyone likes this person, or this is a great work environment. And then later on, they're like, I knew something was off. So it takes practice, which you infer of right with leaning into fear. It's the same way with your psychic and intuitive gifts, and we have to practice that continuously. It's a muscle whenever you are Go ahead. No, go ahead. Oh, whenever we are experiencing those moments, it's important to say, Okay, what's coming up for me? Yeah, and a lot of different emotions, and this can stem, again, from your own personal, lived experiences, maybe growing up where people discounted what you said. You weren't allowed to speak or communicate or express yourself in a certain way. Maybe you were invalidated, or people subjugated you to a certain way of being. There's so many different circumstances that I found, but a lot of the stems from earlier parts of our lives, and we're honing this too, and that's just one part of trusting yourself. And for me, I take a very practical approach, because the more I've leaned into trusting myself in my own intuition, and we've all received the psychic messages very differently, too. That's something else very briefly to say, some people may just know things or send things, and that's clear cognizance or clear sentience, or they may see things visually or through dreams, clairvoyance, for example. And so there's different extra sensory ways that these messages come through. And a lot of times I'll say again, like I've said, we feel it in our body first, and it's not something we should intellectualize or something that you can try to analyze. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 42:51 And what I was going to react to was the fact that you, you referred to it as a muscle, and it is, and I think it's important that people think about it in that way. My favorite example, and I've used it lots, I hope people aren't getting too bored with it, is trivial pursuit, which is a fun game, and I think of so many times I've played it with people, and I've been a victim of it, and others have been as well. A question is asked, an answer pops into our head, and then we think, no, it can't be that easy. And we think about it and we give a different answer, and invariably, the answer that we originally thought of was the right answer. Our inner selves knows a lot more than we give it credit for, and by practicing to listen to it, I think we all can benefit a great deal, but we do really have to practice and listen to it, because I think that it won't steer us wrong, although I think a lot of people will poo poo that, but it is, it is absolutely true, and there are so many examples of it, so I think it is important, and it's Part of what I put in my new book that's coming out called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking in faith. It's all about learning to deal with fear and learning to listen to ourselves and learning not to second guess, but really learn to know more than we do and we can. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 44:29 Oh, you just beautifully packaged that that could be like the little bow or ticket on a gift. I think you summed it up perfectly. And just to reference Roselle during your time when you are working at the World Trade Center, and even now with your guide dog and any animal in particular, you'll notice that, how many times have you seen a dog or an animal or felt it doubt themselves? I've never because I have two wiener dogs, and you may have heard them, hopefully not loudly. You have two wiener. Dogs. Here dachshunds. I Michael Hingson ** 45:01 was listening for them. I haven't heard the doxies. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 45:04 I've never in my life thought, wow, he or she second guessed themselves. They don't need to go to the bathroom. Or if they bark for a reason, because animals are so attuned to different we'll say frequencies like a radio than we are. And again, many stories around how animals will bark at certain people or see things we don't. And brings to mind, they're not second guessing themselves. They know exactly what they've seen, and they will stay very fervent in that position, whether it's barking or they're like, hey, I need to go out, or whatever it is. And they'll let you know, similar to what you brought up with Rosella and how she didn't indicate any fears, which help you tune in and say, Okay, we're good right now at this time. So in the same vein, we can learn a lot from animals. And it seems like your book is tapping exactly into this where animals, they just do it. They don't themselves, they don't question themselves, they don't ask the next dog over. Hey, did you see what I see Michael Hingson ** 46:02 they don't do, what if they don't? And Dr Christine Belarezo ** 46:06 that's the beauty that we can learn from from other creatures around this, but also to ourselves. And again, it's just practicing. And this is probably the most boring, unglamorous aspect of this work that I do, because people tend to see it in perhaps a particular way. When you talk about this field of spirituality and psychics and intuition, people see it a certain way, and it's really not this is the boring work of you got to trust yourself first, because if you are receiving those intuitive messages and you don't trust that, there's going to be no one else you can listen to them, but what if they're deceiving you? You got to trust what it is that you're feeling and what's coming up to you, and you've said it, it never leads you astray. Michael Hingson ** 46:52 As I said, animals don't do what if. But make no mistake, they learn. So there are so many examples of somebody being in a situation like family in a in a building and it catches fire, and the animal comes and it bothers people, until they pay attention and it gets them out. The animal didn't do a well, what if this building catches on fire? What am I going to do? The animal does learn, however, how to move around their place. That's one example. The bottom line is, we can all learn those same sorts of things, and we do have the extra gift of being able to do what if, but we need to learn how to use that too. And again, the best thing about what if is that we learn to build that muscle, that mental muscle, and learn how to know ourselves better so that we can deal with situations that come up. And although not every situation will be the same, and we may not have predicted a particular situation, we can learn well enough to have a pretty good idea of how to deal with most things that come into our lives if we choose to. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 48:07 I agree. That resonates so much. I always like to say we have our own sniffers, kind of like dogs, because their sense of smell is so acute, and some I would imagine breeds, especially carriers. I'm not a dog expert, but this is just from my experience, and what I've read, they have an even greater sense of smell, where they can send things that we can't. And to your example about, you know, a dog that maybe awakens the family, or even cats or any other animals. I've read so many accounts because I'm an animal lover as well, and I'm just fascinated by they don't question things. They follow their senses. And for many reasons, I feel like animals are also like our own angels, our own guardian angels. They help us in many ways, and we can learn so much like they do, because they adapt. They're super intelligent creatures, and I speak for many different types of creatures, rodents, birds, could be reptiles, dogs and those in the wild that we make there was ways that we can also start practicing and adapting to having that keen sense of knowing who you are. And perhaps that's something people are learning, especially post pandemic, is who am I? And connecting to yourself through those moments of solitude, but also in your surroundings, that's it helps you keep in touch with what's going on, like your own antenna. Michael Hingson ** 49:33 Well, there's, there is a lot we can learn and hopefully live like a guide dog will help people think about that a little bit more and maybe not fear so many things. Or, you know, another aspect of it is we've got some people who just say, Trust me, I know what's best. Just listen to me. You don't have to worry about it. That never works. And what we really need to do is. Is to not just trust, but make sure that somebody earns our trust, and we really take the time to think that we've really analyzed what they say, and then we can trust perhaps. But even then, it does go both ways, but it is a it is a challenge. Well, tell me something that people don't know about you, just to change the subject. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 50:30 Wow. You know, I've asked myself this question, and Michael Hingson ** 50:33 you're still trying to figure out what what you don't know about you, right? Dr Christine Belarezo ** 50:38 I think that's an ever longing journey or quest. And I think something folks may not know about me is how much I really like to learn. I'm generally a very curious person, and I love asking questions to people. Things pop up and things like sometimes when I speak, it could lead, it could appear or feel like I'm going off a tangent. That's because I get so many things that pop up in my head. I'm like, Oh, this is fascinating. And I can really go down a hole in trying to learn, perhaps over consume or simply engage with someone or something, whether it's a topic, a theme, or something I'm really passionate about, until I know all facets. And when I say all facets, obviously it's not going to happen, because there's something you can always keep learning. Yeah, so simply learn to lean into that, because I'm a lifelong learner, and I've always considered myself like a student in life, a traveler in life and through the world, and I constantly learn new things, and some people when they either sense being in my energy, or if they see me, they judge, because I can be quiet, but that's because I'm observing first, and I'm someone that likes to observe and kind of get a feel. Would this person be open to talking? Do they like to engage? So that's just something that most people don't know about me. It's really easy based on many assumptions, whether it's through personal experiences or maybe something people see in themselves to make those judgments. But I'm a questioner. I just question I love asking people questions about themselves, what, why they do, what they do, what led them to this? And more questions pop up, so it's infinite. Well, Michael Hingson ** 52:24 that's there's nothing wrong with that curiosity, I think is a good thing, and I love being curious, and I wish more of us would have been taught more about being curious and not discouraged as children, which happens so often. But I think the curiosity is a very important thing to do. So I'm glad you like that, and I'm glad that you talk about that. What kind of advice might you have for others who want to make a big change in their life? Dr Christine Belarezo ** 52:53 Don't overthink it, just do it. And I also want to preface this, perhaps a mini disclaimer here, obviously, make sure your basic needs are taken care of. You know, like paying your bills and things around those elements. But when it comes to making a change, I find that so many people, and I say this particularly from personal experience, we may lean into it. We may take time. It may be years. I'll just tell you my leap from academia into doing what I am now. I received just knowings just guidance. It's time to end your time here, similar to yours when you left your position at the World Trade Center and you left that career to start speaking, and I've received messages like Diana ignored it, and I took a lot of time. We're talking more than a decade. I'm like, Nope, I'm going to keep pursuing this. So I would say, when you feel something, explore it, and don't be afraid to take action. That doesn't mean, okay, I'm going to quit my job the next day. Can mean maybe it's time to update my resume or CV. Maybe it's time to reconnect to my network and start exploring new opportunities, or hey, that event is calling to me about maybe basketball popped up in my head, or sports, or whatever it is. Take action. Don't put it on pause. Don't wait. Don't say another day, because we tend to analyze things, and then that wheel is fomenting, perhaps of discontent or unhappiness or whatever it is. Michael Hingson ** 54:32 Yeah, I think again, you're right. You can't, you shouldn't overthink. And if you think about things in the right way and analyze it, you can come to the right decision. And that's really what you're you're looking to do, which is as good as it gets, and that's important to do. Well, tell me, if people tell me a little bit about you and your business. So how do you meet people? How do you reach out to people? How do they find you? And so on. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 55:05 So I encountered and connected to clients in so many ways, usually in unusual ways, where I'm shopping, maybe at the market, I'm reaching for a fruit and someone's like, hi, I don't know them. And then they start telling me about themselves or life story, and next thing you know, I'm still with the pair in my hand 30 minutes later, and you're like, what do you do? And I let them know, like, wow. I'm like, yeah. And so I meet people in unusual circumstances like that, where I'm just going about my routine other ways, is through connecting one on one, like coffee chats, and that's not usually my main intention. One of my values is connecting and creating bridges with people. I simply like connecting and asking questions, getting to know people, and supporting other people. And many times, folks are interested in what I do, and that's one way that I've gotten clients. I also have a YouTube channel where I talk about astrology, spiritual topics, also real life, everyday topics, because I'm a practical person, and it's important to be grounded in this world and not just completely think my head is in a certain cloud or on, existing on whatever dimension you feel you may be existing on. Very practical here, because we're all here to contribute in some facet, our own lights in this world. So YouTube is another way. I've met people LinkedIn too. You may have experienced this on LinkedIn. I'm sure many folks have where you've had people reach out, whether it's cold calls, I've had people reach out to me where we have no related work, but they may be trying to sell me something, and I've gotten clients in that way. So I don't do traditional forms of marketing. I'm someone that really values creating genuine relationships, rather than something transactional. I hope and try to create, maybe you could say, like a friendship, family, type of connection with people, because trust is really important in the line of work that I do, there are a lot of charlatans, like in many other fields, but I would say more so in this field, and that's why, going back to some of the really great questions you asked and the responses and examples you gave, it's important to trust yourself when you meet. That's why I like offering people the opportunity to engage in video calls with me, because if we don't connect, if you you're not feeling it, I don't personalize it. Um, to me, I think, Okay, I have one new friend that I know in this network. Good luck. Maybe I can offer you someone else that does something that you may connect to, sure. Well, Michael Hingson ** 57:38 if people want to reach out to you. How do they do that? They Dr Christine Belarezo ** 57:42 can email me, Troy, provide my email or yes please, it's and spell it out. Okay, it's Christine. I'll spell it in a sec. It's Christina @Christine Balarezo.com so it's C, H, R, as in Robert I S as in Sam T, as in Tom I N as in Nancy E. At, what is that? Called the ampersand? 58:15 No, at, at, Dr Christine Belarezo ** 58:17 you have it? Christine, again, C, H, R, i, s, t, I, N, E. Valero, so B, as in boy, a, l, a, r, e, Z, as in zebra, o.com, that's one way, email, YouTube channel, my first and last name, Christine valarso through my website, same christineballarso.com Those are many ways to connect with me, and I offer opportunity to connect in one on one chats too. Michael Hingson ** 58:56 Well. I hope people will reach out. This has been very insightful and very useful, and I hope that it gives people a little bit different slant on some of the things that they may be thinking or hearing within themselves, and that they'll maybe listen a little bit better. So I hope that will happen. And I want to thank you for taking the time to be with us today. I'd like to thank all of you for listening to us. We really appreciate your time. I'd love it if you'd give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to unstoppable mindset. And if you know anyone who ought to come on our podcast, we'd love to hear from you, and Christine for you as well. If you know anyone we're always looking for for guests. And so I hope that that you all will do that, and again, wherever you are, please give us a five star rating. So thank you very much for listening, and we will be back in a little while with another episode of unstoppable mindset. And you can reach out to me, and I'd love it if you would. you can email me Michael h i@accessibe.com that's m, I C H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, w, w, w, dot Michael hinkson.com/podcast and Michael Hinkson is m, I C H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O n.com/podcast so once more, Christine, thanks very much for being here, and we really appreciate your time. Dr Christine Belarezo ** 1:00:28 Thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure. Thank you all great. **Michael Hingson ** 1:00:37 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

140: Balancing Debt Repayment and Real Life with David Frank

balancing debt real life therapists financial wellness step framework repayment erin davis david frank

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2024 43:23 Transcription Available

How do you balance debt repayment with the rest of your financial life? In today's episode, certified financial planner David Frank returns to the podcast to talk with Linzy about one of the most common and challenging questions among Money Skills for Therapists students: how to prioritize debt repayment without sacrificing quality of life.Linzy and David explore the emotional weight of debt, discussing how shame and societal expectations often shape our views on borrowing and repayment. David explains the key differences between simple and compound interest, laying out how to assess different types of debt and make more informed choices. He also offers a clear approach to calculating the real costs of debt and shares why overly complex financial advice can sometimes be a warning sign.Linzy and David emphasize the importance of finding a middle ground that aligns with your financial goals and personal well-being. Tune in to hear practical advice about how to take steps toward building a balanced and confident financial life.For a full transcript of the episode and much more, check out the blog post on our website! https://moneynutsandbolts.com/?p=16122To watch a video version of this, check it out on YouTube: https://youtu.be/lRSBCcvC-nE To tune into the coaching episodes Linzy mentioned related to paying down debt, see episode 114 with Jenet Dove and episode 88 with Erin Davis. For more from David and Linzy, check out:104: How Deep Work Can Enhance Your Business with David Frank83: Embracing Emotions for Financial Wellness with David FrankConnect with David FrankDavid Frank has a lot of free resources & webinars on his website, like his training “Retirement Plans Fundamentals for Private Practice Owners”, or his “Finance Quick Start Guide for Therapists”. Check those out here. You can also find David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwfrank/ Want to work with Linzy? Check out the FREE masterclass, The 4 Step Framework to Getting Your Business Finances Totally in Order, where you'll learn the framework that has helped hundreds of therapists go from money confusion and shame to calm and confidence, as well as the three biggest financial mistakes that therapists make. At the end, you'll be invited to join Money Skills for Therapists and get Linzy's support in getting your finances finally working for you. Click here to find a masterclass time that works for you! https://moneynutsandbolts.com/masterclass-signup/ Mentioned in this episode:Check Out Relay for Business BankingSkip...

Episode 154 | The Business Owner's Investment Playbook (with David Frank)

Therapy For Your Money

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2024 41:00

Financial Mastery for Therapy Practice Owners: Investing, Retirement, and Real Estate InsightsIn this episode of Therapy for Your Money, host Julie Herres discusses essential financial strategies for therapy practice owners with certified financial planner David Frank. The discussion spans various areas, including the importance of emergency funds, distinguishing between personal and business finances, and the advantages of fee-only financial planners. Listeners will gain valuable insights into managing excess cash, understanding tax-advantaged accounts, and setting up business emergency funds. Simplified retirement planning is also covered, emphasizing target date funds and consistent savings. The episode touches on the intricacies of financial planning, including risk management, estate planning, and real estate investments. Practical advice on life insurance options and detailed resources on retirement plans are provided to help ensure the financial stability and growth of therapy practices.Episode Highlights00:00 Welcome to Therapy for Your Money00:50 Introducing David Frank: Financial Planner for Therapists01:15 Investing Basics for Business Owners04:34 Emergency Funds: The Foundation of Financial Security08:14 Navigating Taxable Brokerage Accounts15:10 Retirement Planning: Choosing the Right Accounts20:01 Solo vs. Group Practice Financial Strategies21:03 Calculating Your Retirement Number22:04 Approaching Retirement: Financial Tips23:52 Overcoming Financial Anxiety25:41 Risk Management and Insurance26:40 Real Estate Investments: Pros and Cons34:33 Life Insurance for Practice Owners38:04 Free Webinar and ResourcesLinks and ResourcesGet a Free Initial Fit Meeting: https://turningpointhq.com/ Money for Therapists Practice Startup - https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/startupGreenOak Accounting - www.GreenOakAccounting.comTherapy For Your Money Podcast - www.TherapyForYourMoney.comProfit First for Therapists - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.comProfit First Academy - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com/Academy Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation StudioGet our free KPI tracker to see how you practice measures up to others in the industry! www.therapyforyourmoney.com/kpi

money solo therapy practical investment retirement therapists business owners playbook risk management kpi life insurance simplified your money free webinars david frank episode highlights00 julie herres

#390 – Radio Wonderland

Radio Wonderland

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 28, 2024 59:50

Alison plays new music from Mau P, San Holo, Tchami, Luci, ISOxo, Anna Lunoe and more!Don't forget to rate & review on all of your favorite podcast apps! Post your comments on twitter @awonderland #RADIOWONDERLANDTracklist:1. RADIO WONDERLAND OPENER2. Mau P - Merther3. PLS&TY - Breakaway (ft. David Frank)4. zensei ゼンセー - fun.5. CloudNone, Direct, Mr FijiWiji - bayb336. Mha Iri - The Unexpected7. ISOxo, fussy - STARsound (pt2)8. Anna Lunoe - Polite (feat. Shanique Marie)9. San Holo, Tchami - feel again10. Luci & Dirtysnatcha - She Bangs Like a Fairy on Acid11. ESPER, Janus - DOTA12. Slow Magic - Closer (feat. Angela Krüsi)13. Rootkit & Melano - One More14. TWONSKi - EONZ15. Silcrow & Capshun – DAMNED16. if found & GLNNA - WORTH.the.CRASH (VIP)17. Jersey - Giant Cotton Ball18. REZZ x X1 - Y2 - PROXIMATE19. What So Not, Habstrakt - Realise (feat. Maiah Manser)20. ISOxo - SHYPOP (REDUX)

fairies pls esper tchami san holo rezz anna lunoe david frank rootkit shanique marie maiah manser radio wonderland

#390 - Radio Wonderland

Radio Wonderland

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 24, 2024 59:49

Alison plays new music from Mau P, San Holo, Tchami, Luci, ISOxo, Anna Lunoe and more!Don't forget to rate & review on all of your favorite podcast apps! Post your comments on twitter @awonderland #RADIOWONDERLANDTracklist:Mau P - Merther PLS&TY - Breakaway (ft. David Frank) zensei ゼンセー - fun. CloudNone, Direct, Mr FijiWiji - bayb33 Mha Iri - The Unexpected ISOxo, fussy - STARsound (pt2) Anna Lunoe - Polite (feat. Shanique Marie) San Holo, Tchami - feel again Luci & Dirtysnatcha - She Bangs Like a Fairy on Acid ESPER, Janus - DOTA Slow Magic - Closer (feat. Angela Krüsi) Rootkit & Melano - One More TWONSKi - EONZ Silcrow & Capshun – DAMNED if found & GLNNA - WORTH.the.CRASH (VIP) Jersey - Giant Cotton Ball REZZ x X1 - Y2 - PROXIMATE What So Not, Habstrakt - Realise (feat. Maiah Manser) ISOxo - SHYPOP (REDUX)

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J.B. McLachlan: A Biography, New Edition: The Story of a Legendary Labour Leader and the Cape Breton Coal Miners

Witness to Yesterday (The Champlain Society Podcast on Canadian History)

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 21, 2024 44:24

Nicole O'Byrne talks to David Frank about his book, J.B. McLachlan: A Biography: The Story of a Legendary Labour Leader and the Cape Breton Coal Miners. J.B. McLachlan: A Biography presents a vivid portrait of a significant early twentieth-century Canadian rebel. Recognized as a remarkable biography, it chronicles the life of a Canadian labor hero and provides an unparalleled account of twentieth-century Canadian labor history, inspiring readers who seek social and economic justice. David Frank is a leading figure in Canadian history. He taught for over 30 years at the University of New Brunswick, and he has written six books on Atlantic Canadian labour history. His articles on labour and social history have appeared in numerous books and journals. Image Credit: James Lorimer & Company Ltd. If you like our work, please consider supporting it: bit.ly/support_WTY. Your support contributes to the Champlain Society's mission of opening new windows to directly explore and experience Canada's past.

university canada canadian leader legendary labour biography recognized new brunswick new edition coal miners cape breton mclachlan david frank atlantic canadian wty

#198 - Eric Kirk and David Frank

Growing Pains with Nicholas Flores

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 7, 2024 140:35

Nick sits down with Eric Kirk and David Frank to discuss the 2024 presidential election, conflict in the Middle East, accountability in the government, propaganda, speech and more! 08/29/2024

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#51 - Erotic Theology for Church Renewal—A Conversation with David Bennett

wisconsin horticulturist emerald ash borer david frank

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 18, 2024 87:50

David Bennett has a lot to say about erotic relationships with God—but it's probably not what you think! As a former atheistic gay activist now turned celibate gay theologian and follower of Jesus, David's reflections on Christian sexuality and discipleship are both personal and deeply informed by Christian historical tradition. David sat down with TJ and David Frank to talk about a theology of desire, Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to today, Side B activism, and practical discipleship for Christians today. Join us!Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you're new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out Communion & Shalom episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides” in our conversation: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠—★ About Our GuestDr. David Bennett recently completed his doctorate (DPhil) in theology at Oxford University where he now works as a postdoctoral research fellow in the Theology and Religion Faculty. His thesis is in the process of being published, tentatively entitled, Queering the Queer: A Theological Ethics of Same-Sex Desire and Gay Celibacy in Contemporary Anglican Thought. He specializes in the relationship between the Trinity, Christian ethics, patristics, queer theology, discipleship and contemporary Anglican theology, especially the role of desire in knowing God. David also serves as a theologian in residence at Reality San Francisco and Church of the City, New York, and an Associate Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall. Find him on Instagram or X (@DavidACBennett) or on his website at dacbennett.com.—★ Timestamps(00:00) Introduction(s)(05:00) The heart desires, the will chooses, the mind justifies(16:11) "You're just denying your sexuality" - defining “erotic”(25:45) How many kinds of love are there?(33:04) Eros and fear-of (or "Lutheran pietistic excess")(44:25) We need more Side B activism(56:58) What's going on with the Church of England?(01:13:20) Beyond an “ethic”: pursuing personal integration—★ Links and ReferencesEros and Agape (1930, 1936) by Anders Nygren (Wikipedia)Deus Caritas est (2005), Pope Benedict XVI (Wikipedia)—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support…Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship—★ CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin P. ★ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit newkinship.substack.com

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Horticulturist talks Emerald Ash Borer

Wisconsin's Morning News

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 9, 2024 6:36

Kurt Bartel of David Frank landscaping provides the latest on EABs in Wisconsin.

Episode 259 – ppable Authors and People Who Learn To Control Fear with Keri Wyatt Kent & Susy Flory

Private Practice Elevation with Daniel Fava

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 20, 2024 69:40

This episode of Unstoppable Mindset is for me a special one. It has been three years in the making. It is a celebration by any standard. At the beginning of the pandemic, I began realizing that while I had talked for years about escaping from the World Trade Center I had not begun teaching people to control fear: something I did successfully on September 11. So, I began working toward writing a book about the subject. I approached my co-author of Thunder Dog, Susy Flory, but she was quite busy studying in a PHD program, her own writing and running a writers conference. Susy introduced me to Keri Wyatt Kent. A friendship and team bond were formed. Today, August 20, 2024 the fruits of Keri's and my labors are released in a new book entitled “Live Like A Guide Dog: true stories of a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking in faith”. The book is our effort to help people realize that they can learn to control fear rather than being “blinded by it”. On this episode, Keri, Susy Flory and I discuss the book. Lots of stories as well as a discussion of what went on behind the scenes. I hope you like the episode and, if you haven't done so already, please order a copy of the book. About the Guest: Keri Wyatt Kent is the author or co-author of more than two dozen books. (see her website portfolio at www.keriwyattkent.com) She has been published in Christianity Today magazine, Today's Christian Woman magazine, Outreach magazine and many other publications. She is the founder and principal of A Powerful Story, an editing and publishing company. She publishes two newsletters on Substack: Welcoming and Wandering, which explores hospitality and travel (at https://welcomingandwandering.substack.com/ ); and A Powerful Story newsletter, which offers writing and publishing advice (see https://keriwyattkent.substack.com/. Susy Flory is a #1 New York Times best-selling author or co-author of fourteen books, including The Sky Below, a new memoir with Hall of Fame Astronaut/Explorer Scott Parazynski, and Desired by God with Van Moody. Susy grew up on the back of a quarter horse in Northern California and took degrees from UCLA in English and psychology. She has a background in journalism, education, and communications and directs a San Francisco Bay Area writers conference. She first started writing at the Newhall Signal with the legendary Scotty Newhall, an ex-editor of the San Francisco Chronicle and a one-legged cigar-smoking curmudgeon who ruled the newsroom from behind a dented metal desk where he pounded out stories on an Underwood Typewriter. She taught high school English and journalism, then quit in 2004 to write full time for publications such as Focus on the Family, Guideposts Books, In Touch, Praise & Coffee, Today's Christian, and Today's Christian Woman. Susy's books include So Long Status Quo: What I Learned From the Women Who Changed the World, as well as the much-anticipated 2011 memoir she co-wrote with blind 9-11 survivor Michael Hingson, called Thunder Dog: The True Story of a Blind Man, His Guide Dog, and the Triumph of Trust at Ground Zero. Thunder Dog was a runaway bestseller and spent over a dozen weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. Ways to connect with Kerri & Susy: www.facebook.com/keriwyattkent www.instagram.com/keriwyattkent https://www.linkedin.com/in/keri-wyatt-kent-328b2810/ http://www.susyflory.com/ https://www.facebook.com/everythingmemoir About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. . Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, Hi again, everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today is a special one. I think it's special anyway, and I think our guests will agree today you're listening to this. It's It's August 20, 2024, and it's special because for the past almost three years, I and Kari Wyatt Kent, who you'll meet in a moment, have been working on a book. It's my next book, and the we had various titles, but we ended up deciding with the publisher, Tyndale house, to call it live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking in faith. All three of those are relevant, and we can talk about those. And along the way, we've also had a lot of help from Susy Flory, who worked with me when we did thunderdog, and we wrote thunderdog, which was a number one New York Times bestseller and was published in August of 2011 I don't know what it is about August, but, oh, that's okay, but I think there's relevance to it being August this time anyway. Susie Flory was on Episode 10 of unstoppable mindset, way back in December, December 1, specifically, of 2021, and 12 days later on the 13th of December, Keri Wyatt Kent was on episode 12 of unstoppable mindset. So if you guys want to hear those two episodes, you can go back and find episodes 10 and 12 and hear our individual conversations with Susie and Carrie. But now I'd like to introduce you to both of them and all three of us, I think, we'll tell you a little bit about ourselves, and then we'll get into other things that are related to what we want to talk about, unstoppable mindset. But the big thing is, today is the day we're celebrating that live like a guide dog is released. It was released today. It's out there. If you haven't ordered it, we hope you will from wherever you want to order books, and if you have pre ordered it, you'll be getting your copy pretty soon. So anyway, welcome Susy and Kari. I'm glad you're here. We really appreciate your time, Susy. Why don't you tell us a little bit about you? I Susy Flory ** 03:33 certainly will. But first I want to say congratulations to the both of you. I'm so excited about this book. Can't wait for it to get out there and for people to enjoy it. Mike, I was thinking I did a little quick math, and you and I have known each other for 15 years now we have we How many marriages don't even last 15 years? Right? Really, Michael Hingson ** 03:58 well, we we met because you called one day and were writing a book called Dog tales, and you wanted to include Rozelle story, and you asked me to tell what happened on September 11. And so I bit I did, and I took maybe, I think, close to 45 minutes, and then afterward, there was this pause, and all of a sudden, Susie said you ought to write your own book, and I want to help you write it. And I sort of was a little bit reluctant, because I'd been working on it for a long time and had some ideas and advice from people, but it just wasn't going anywhere. But it did with Susie and her agent became my agent. He got a contract with Thomas Nelson publishing, and the rest, as they say, is sort of history, yeah. And I Susy Flory ** 04:43 have always loved animal stories. My first few books, I didn't get to do anything like that, but as soon as I could, I started writing animal stories. Dogtails was the first one, and then working with you on thunderdog was the second one. Yeah. And that's kind of been a theme of my life. My dad was a Texas cowboy, and I grew up on horses. He was kind of a horse whisperer. My daughter works in wildlife rescue, and she's a squirrel whisperer. And I just love the way that animals sort of make their way into your heart, and there's a healing and bonding process that happens that so gentle most of the time you don't even realize it's happening until you need them. And that really, has truly been my experience. So Mike, that's really a part of your story that captured my heart, along with a lot of other elements of the story, I've been writing now for about 20 years, writing and publishing, I direct a writer's conference, and Carrie's actually part of that. And we try to help writers become the best that they can be. And then in the last few years, I've been in seminary, furthering my education. Right now I'm in a doctoral program and working on my dissertation, so my hair is becoming more and more gray in that process. Well, Keri Wyatt Kent ** 06:17 and I met Susy probably at least 15 years ago, maybe more, I'm not sure when it was, but we were both writers. We worked with the same agent at the time, and then I pretty soon got involved with the West Coast Christian writers the conference that Susie was leading, and we just clicked. We We are both animal lovers. I think that's part of it. I love dogs. I also grew up riding horses, as she did and and we both had horses later in life at at the same time. And I agree there's that there's just something that animals kind of intuitively know and connect with you on this emotional level. And, you know, the the dogs that that I met through helping Mike right live like a guide dog, when we initially started it, we were going to do, we were going to include some other dogs, you know, service dogs and other people's dogs. And so I just, I got to meet some really cool dogs during this whole research project. And so I think that people who you know, if the idea of this book is about overcoming fear and managing our fear figuring out how to live courageously. And I think even if you don't have a guide dog or a service dog, animals can help you do that. They force you to be in the moment, which is one of the one of the ways we that we can deal with fear and anxiety, is to be in the moment. And animals sort of force us to do that Michael Hingson ** 08:02 if we pay attention to them. I think you're absolutely right. And one of the lessons that we talk about in the book is the whole issue of living in the moment, not doing so much, what if? Because, if we What if everything to death, we create a lot of fear in our own lives. And one of the the basic mantras I have lived by, especially since September 11, although even before, but mostly after September 11, is don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can, and the rest will take care of itself. And the lesson really comes from dogs, because after September 11, I contacted the veterinarian department of Guide Dogs for the Blind, and also talked to Roselle trainer and so on and and said, How do you think that this whole event would affect Roselle? And one of the things that they asked me was, was Roselle threatened along the way? And I said, No. And they said, well, was she hit with anything? Or did anything endanger her? And I said, No, not that she would notice at all. And they said, Well, there you are. Dogs. Don't do what if and when it was over. And we got home on the night of September 11, I took Roselle harness off, and I figured I was going to take her out. She would have none of it. She ran off, went to her toy box, grabbed her favorite tug boda bone, and started playing tug of war with my retired guy, dog, Lenny, and that was it. The two of them just played. Eventually, she did have to go out, but by the same token, they played. It was over. Roselle was glad to be home, and we moved on from there, and I think it's an important lesson. When the pandemic began, I realized that although I've been talking for at that time, 19 years about surviving the World Trade Center terrorist attacks and so on, and being able to go down the state. And not exhibiting fear and not exhibiting panic. I learned to do that and created a mindset in my head, because I spent a lot of time prior to September 11, learning about all of the issues in the World Trade Center. Where do you go if there's an emergency? What are the rules? Because for me, of course, I'm not going to read signs, but also, I was the leader of an office, and I was responsible for the people in that office, or whoever might be in the office at the time. So it was really important for me to know that. And so as a result, I learned what I could I learned how to travel around the world trade center, learned where things were and all of that, although it wasn't until much later that I realized it. All of that created a mindset in me, you know, what to do if there's an emergency and when it actually happened, although certainly we didn't expect it, the mindset kicked in and when the fan, when the pandemic began, I realized we really needed to start to talk about teaching people how to deal with fear, and as I would put it, teach people that they don't need to be blinded by fear or overwhelmed by fear, that fear is an important tool, no matter what you might think about. Oh, well, if it happens, it's a natural reaction. You have control over what you do and how you feel when something horrific or something unusual happens, then fear can be a powerful tool that you can use to benefit you, rather than letting it overwhelm you and cause you not to be able to make decisions. And you know, today in our in our world, politicians and others are doing nothing but promulgating fear in so many different ways. And we don't learn enough about stepping back and really analyzing what they say, whoever they are, and going back and saying, wait a minute. Is this real? Do I need to be afraid of this? Or is there anything that I can do about it? And that gets back to the don't worry about what you can't control. Most of it we don't have direct control over, except, I would say, at the ballot box on november 5. But by the same token, there's so much that we take personally that we shouldn't because we're not going to have any effect on it. And so what we need to do, and what live like a guide dog allows us to do is to learn how to control fear. We talk about being introspective. We talk about taking time at the end of every day to look at what happened. Why did it work? What didn't work? I don't like the concept of failure. I think that failure is only a lesson that we can use to move forward and that it doesn't need to be bad if we don't allow it to be bad, but if we use it as a tool. So that's what live like a guide dog really is about, and it is one of the, I think, the books that can truly help so many people recognize that they have a lot more control over the specific things in their lives than they think they do. Or, as we say here on the podcast, they can be more unstoppable than they think they are. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 13:12 Mike, I think that's so good. And you know, some of the things that we have in the book, as you recall, um, are strategies like we can't worry about what we can't control. But for example, you mentioned, like learning your way around the world trade center. That was a step of preparation that enabled you to then in the moment when things were you know, where there's chaos. You had been. You had prepared yourself, and all of us can prepare ourselves, you know, for understanding the world around us, for gaining information that will help us in a long when, if, when, and if something happens, to deal with it in a in a brave way and not let fear get the upper Hand. Yeah, still feel afraid, but if we're prepared, we go, okay, I know we're I know what to do next. I know what you know. I know where the exit door is, whatever it was that you know, you were able to know your way around the world trade center that helped you as you were, you know, evacuating from a tower that was on fire, you know? Yeah, so it preparation was a great tool, and it's one of the strategies that we talk about in the book that can help us to not let our fear make us panic. So, Michael Hingson ** 14:37 you know, one of the things that we do a lot in the book, at various places, is tell stories. And I, as a person who's been involved in sales most of my life, believe that the best salespeople are people who can tell stories that relate to whatever their customers are interested in, and so on. So one of the things that comes to mind is a story that took place a few years after September 11. I was in Oregon in. Working for Guide Dogs for the Blind, and I had to go up to Gresham, Oregon, where the, well, our boring Oregon, actually, I love that name, where the second campus of Guide Dogs for the Blind is located. And I got there and put stuff away, and decided I was going to go out to dinner. And I had learned where a restaurant was and how to get there. And I got there, that was no problem. But coming back for some reason, and I don't remember what specifically happened, but for some reason, I couldn't get back to the apartment where I was staying, and I felt real concern when I when I first couldn't make it work, I retraced my steps, got back to the restaurant, and then tried it again, and still we didn't get to the right place. But what I also realized is you've got to deal with this, because it's not rozelle's job to know when Roselle was the guide dog at the time. Guide Dogs don't lead. They guide. Their job is to make sure that we walk safely. I have to give and had to give Roselle direction, and that is the case with anyone who uses a guide dog. People always want to say, well, of course, the dog just leads you around. No, that's just not true. Anyway, as I after the second time of not making it work right, I suddenly realized, wait a minute, I have in my pocket, and it was fairly new, so we didn't think of using it as much at the time, but I had a talking GPS system. I turned it on, I put in the address of where I wanted to go, and within five minutes, I was at the apartment where, where we were staying. But the issue is, I had to step back and recognize, don't be afraid. There are ways to make this work, and what you need to do is to use your skills to resolve the problem and solve the problem. And so many people won't do that. They they just get afraid. Blind people oftentimes do it. Sighted people do it in so many ways. But the fact is that it's it's a very powerful tool to use something that we call in the rehabilitation world with blind people today, and I think others, but the National Federation of the Blind calls structured discovery. You get lost, you start to go back and analyze where you were supposed to go and how you were supposed to get there, and maybe where you actually went wrong. And structured discovery is a very powerful thing. I also think that using technologies like GPS have, especially now, become a lot more dominant, and that's fine, because it's the technology's job to give me the information that allows me to decide what I want to do. But you know the bottom line is that the fear went away as soon as I recognized, oh, I know how to do this, and I'll just use the talking GPS system, and it should be able to give me what I want to know. And it did, Keri Wyatt Kent ** 18:07 yeah, I love that story. And I think one of the things I learned as as your co author, you know, it's your story, and I was, you know, helping, you know, you write it, but, but I learned so much about guide dogs. For instance, what you mentioned when you were telling that story, that the guide dog doesn't lead you, you don't say, go back to the apartment you've been to once, Roselle, she's, you know, it's not like Lassie, you know, movies, Michael Hingson ** 18:35 and that's all right. And no matter what they say, Timmy never did fall down the well, but that's never fell down Keri Wyatt Kent ** 18:39 the well, ever is that was just, anyway, the idea of, and I've, you know, when I was I got a copy of the book recently, and, you know, had a publication. And the I was explaining to my husband, well, the guide dog doesn't lead and he goes, Well, how does he know where he's going? I said, Well, the same way you do but, but it's, it's that the guide dog guides, but the the handler has to give direction to the dog. Because I think it would be more scary if, if the dog had the magical ability to just take you where you want to go. I feel like it would be scarier because that's literally you have no control or no awareness of what's going on, whereas the way guide dogs actually work, you're a team, and you're doing it together, so you both have agency and control over various aspects of your journey together, and I think that makes it less scary. So Michael Hingson ** 19:41 it is a team effort, and, and you're absolutely right, and that the reality is that it's a team effort where we both learn to trust each other. And, yeah, I think that families who have dogs really need to learn more about their their dogs. Um. Or and other animals too, but we're going to talk about dogs today. The the fact of the matter is that, in reality, dogs love to be around people, and they actually want us and hope that we will set the rules so that they know what they're supposed to do. They love rules, and that doesn't mean in a negative sort of way. But you know, if you just let your dog run around the house, tear up the furniture and all that, and you don't do anything about it, the dog's going to do that until you say, wait a minute, this isn't what you're supposed to do, and you don't need to deal with that in a negative way. There are so many ways to train a dog properly with positive rewards and so on, food rewards and clickers and other things like that, to to really set the rules. But when the dog knows what the rules are, and you continuously say, Good dog, when they do the right thing, they love that, and they will be a much more value added member of the family. As I tell people, dogs do I think love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. And you have to develop that trusting relationship with your dog, whoever you are. It isn't just service dogs, but with service dogs especially, it is a true, absolute team effort that we need to deal with and that we need to form. I need to know that Rozelle is going to do or now Alamo, current black lab guide dog, is going to do his job and convey to him I trust you. And likewise, he wants to know that I trust him. It. It really does go both ways. And when you develop that trusting relationship, it's second to none. Just like any other kind of teaming relationship, Keri Wyatt Kent ** 21:52 I think you hit on something important, Mike, is that your dog wants the structure of of rules and knowing your expectations and wants to meet them, and you'll enjoy your dog more. And your dog will enjoy being a part of what he's considers the pack you know, of your family. Everybody will enjoy it more and feel safer and less fearful if they their structure. You know, I think sometimes dogs are when they're they act out it. They're kind of like kids who act out they are because they're afraid, and they don't know where, where the boundaries are, and Michael Hingson ** 22:30 they don't know what you expect of them. And if you don't convey that, and again, it's a positive thing, you don't go up and beat a dog because it doesn't do what you want. That's not the way to handle it. And there are humane societies, humane associations, and so many organizations around the country that can help you appropriately train your dog. And you should, you should do that. You should really learn what training is all about. But if you do that, you're also training yourself, by the way, we used to live up in Novato, California, which was right by the marine Humane Society. And one of the things that we had discussions with people at the society about, many times, was, in reality, they do more training of people than they do of dogs, because it's really teaching the person how to address and deal with the dog much more than it even is just teaching the dog what the rules are. Right. Now, I don't know about squirrels, Susie, but you know, Susy Flory ** 23:34 they're in a whole other category. They're Keri Wyatt Kent ** 23:37 a whole other category, although I think your daughter, who is very good with all animals. I I remember seeing her with her dog when I visited, and she had an amazing bond with them, with with, you know, and, and that was really cool to watch. There was just this mutual respect between the two of them. Susy Flory ** 23:59 Now, our career actually came as a result of my dog. I have a little Terrier named sprinkles, a Silky Terrier who's 14 now, and when she was really young, I had taken her out in the backyard. Teddy was, I think, 16 at the time, and sprinkles started pointing. And I didn't know these little terriers did that, but she just looked like one of those English hunting dogs. And she had her paw up, her tail out, she was pointing at something. And so I went over to look. She wouldn't come inside. There was a nest of baby birds that had the nest had been destroyed, and the birds were on the ground, these little, tiny babies, and I just left them. That's how heartless I was. I just thought, you know, they're not going to survive. They looked like they were dead. I just left them and picked up sprinkles, took her in, and Teddy came home from school. About a half hour later, I was telling her, you never guessed what sprinkles did today. Well, she didn't care what sprinkles did, but as soon as she heard the word baby birds. She ran out and back. She picked them up, she nursed them back to hell. She stayed up all night feeding them, and the next morning, she said, This is what I want to do for my life. And there's just sometimes an intuition that dogs have, you know, sprinkles found these baby birds, and that connection I will never forget, you know, that bond between her and the dog and the birds and many other animals afterwards. So there's sometimes a mysterious way of working in our lives that dogs can have. Michael Hingson ** 25:36 Well, talking about bonding in mysterious ways brings up the memory of a story of how you two bonded. Does anybody want to tell that story? You told it to me. So now you're stuck. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 25:49 Susy, this is your favorite story so and I've been talking so go ahead. Michael Hingson ** 25:55 Susie, Susy Flory ** 25:56 yeah, you know how sometimes in a friendship, when you go through something hard that I know you and Rozelle went through, and you know many of the other stories you tell them in the new book, it brings you closer together. And Carrie and I had a moment. We were already friends, but we decided to go snow skiing one day, and we both were not like champion skiers. It was just for fun, and we were all dressed in our gear and headed up the hill, and a woman came running from the side of the road up at the top of the mountain and was yelling at us that there was a man in the ditch, and we didn't know what was going on. We stopped. We went over and looked, and there was a man unconscious in a ditch with this motorcycle on top of them. And so it turned out that he had passed away. But, you know, there was a good couple of hours of, you know, summoning the fire department. We had no cell service, giving statements to the authorities, you know, taking this woman back to a restaurant nearby for soup, and really just kind of going through this awful experience together. I mean, it's very traumatic, you know, to see someone who's just passed away from an accident. And, yeah, I think sometimes those things bond us and give us that, that relationship of trust and of teamwork that goes very deep. And Mike, I'm remembering how thunderdog had the working title of trust and teamwork, and I learned so much from you about that concept and kind of how that works. And it's not easy to have a relationship like that. Sometimes the hard things are what, you know, kind of forges that bond. Well, you know, Keri Wyatt Kent ** 27:45 Susie, as you were saying that, I thought, You know what? That's when I knew Susy was someone I could turn to in a crisis, and she would keep a cool head and know what to do, because you just went, Okay, this lady's crazy. You know, having this woman was, like, panicking. She was, she was having a panic attack, you know, almost ran in front of our car and, and you said, alright, we don't have cell service. Carrie, you're going to stay here with this lady and I'm going to drive to where I can get get help. And you just, like, kind of had very decisive, clear, but very calm, very nurturing kind of way with this lady. And I was like, I don't know what to do, and you're like, Carrie, you're going to do this, and I'm going to do this. And I was like, I really like how decisive and yet compassionate you are, and I think that's part of what bond just not just finding a dead guy, which makes for a great story, and, like, a traumatic experience we shared, but I saw you your leadership in action, and I was like, this is a person I can trust. And so I think sometimes that's true with our animals as well, you know, like but when you go through a difficult situation, a fearful situation, if, if you are with someone who handles that well, you learn from them, and you also learn to trust them. Michael Hingson ** 29:06 So, you know, we talk about telling stories and so on, and one of the stories that I told a little bit in thunderdog, but didn't really, at the time, internalized it like I should have, and I have since is regarding going down the stairs. We got to about the 50th floor going down, and I mentioned it in thunderdog, and we also talk about it in more detail and live like a guide dog. But suddenly my colleague David Frank, who was in the office with me that day, because we were going to be doing sales seminars. And David came from our corporate office in California, and David's job was to deal with pricing models and all that, and he was going to teach our resellers all about the pricing options and so on, while I was going to do all the major technical stuff, because I was going to be the regular contact for these people. Anyway, we were going down the stairs and we got to about the. 50th floor. And suddenly David said, Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And immediately I went, I got to stop that. I can't let him do that. We've been trying to keep panic off of the stairs, and various people at various times, help with that. So I just said in the sharpest voice, I could stop it, David, if Rosella and I can go down these stairs so can you. And that was intentional. What David told me later was that that did bring him out of his funk, and what he decided to do, and asked me if it was okay, and I didn't really care, but yeah, it really was okay. He asked if it would be a problem if I if he just walked a floor below me on the stairs and shouted up to me everything that he saw. And I said, Sure, go ahead. So we start down the stairs. I get to the 49th floor, and all of a sudden I hear, Hey, Mike, I'm on the 48th floor. All clear here, going on down. And he told me that he wanted to do that because he needed to take his mind off of what was bothering him, which was, who knows what and what are we going to get out of here? So then I get to the 48th floor, and he's on the 47th and says, 47th floor. All good couple floors later, I'm on floor 45 and he goes, Hey, this is the 44th floor where I am now. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is not stopping going on down the stairs, and he went all the rest of the way down the stairs shouting up what he saw. Did I need it? No, was it helpful? Sure. It was. Because we got to the 30th floor, and all of a sudden, David said, hey, the firefighters are coming up the stairs. Everybody moved to the side. Let them buy and we had some interactions with them. But the point of telling you the story is that I realized, actually only in the last few years how important and how absolutely useful and necessary what David did was all about that is to say he kept saying, I'm on whatever floor he was on and going on down the stairs, he became absolutely a focal point for anyone on the stairs who could hear him. So anyone within the sound of his voice knew that somewhere on the stairs there was someone who was doing okay, or at least who sounded okay, and that had to keep so many people from panicking going down the stairs. 19th floor. All good here, and I think that's so wonderful that he did that. And he was doing it, I think, and he said to keep his own fears in check, but he was helping so many people go down the stairs and that that kind of thing isn't really talked about so nearly enough, but it helped him deal with his own fear, and it helped so many people as we went down the stairs. It Keri Wyatt Kent ** 32:53 was just very reassuring, not only, you know, to every like you said to everybody who could hear him, and you know, sometimes we just need to know it's going to be okay. There's somebody you're not alone, you know, well, Michael Hingson ** 33:04 and the re the reality is that he conveyed that message to so many people, probably 1000s of people, because, you know, we were all on these open stairwells, and so so many people above and below him could hear him. And I think that I love how important? Susy Flory ** 33:22 Yeah, I love how he was keeping people in the moment. You know, everyone was focusing on the task at hand. And I think that helps keep fear at bay. It Michael Hingson ** 33:33 does. And you know, the other part about that is we didn't know what was going on. We didn't know that it was a hijacked aircraft that crashed into the towers. We figured that an airplane hit the building because we were smelling burning jet fuel, but we didn't know what the details were. And so I'm sure minds were going in so many different directions as to what was going on. As I tell people, I love to read science fiction, so I was imagining all sorts of things. But I also knew that no matter what I was imagining, we got to deal with going down the stairs and focusing and all that which which we did. And I know people followed me because they kept hearing me telling Roselle What a good girl she was. Good dog. Keep going, what a good dog you are. And they, they, they told me later, look, if you could go down the stairs and just encourage Roselle and all that, we're going to follow you. Which is, which is what they did. And you know, the reality is that we can control fear. Fear doesn't need to overwhelm us. And again, as I've said, it's a it's a very powerful tool. And we talk about ways that you can learn to do that, ways that you can learn to calm and quell fears in your own lives, by introspection, by thinking about what goes on on any given day, and anybody who says that they don't have time at the end of the day or at the very beginning of the next day, but I think especially at the end of the day, to take a few moments. And go. How did it go today? What worked, what didn't? Why didn't? What didn't work? Why did that happen? What do I learn from that I'm a firm believer, not that I'm my own worst critic in everything that I do, although that's what I used to say, I've learned that I'm my own best teacher. Because ultimately, people can provide me with information, but I have to teach it to myself, and I have to take the time to allow myself to learn from what I'm thinking. And I believe that all of us are our own best teachers, and that we need to take into account what we feel and analyze it, and the more of that that we do, the more introspection, and the more self analysis that we do, the the stronger that mind muscle becomes, and the less we're afraid. And that's, of course, a lot about what live like a guide dog is really about. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 35:55 Mike, I'd love to share with your the listeners some of the strategies that, as we talked through, you know, your story, and the way that you have, you know, figured out how to, like you said, become more self aware, some of the strategies that are, you know, offered to people so that they can learn. In the book, we talk about awareness and we talk about preparation, which mentioned that before we talk about flexibility, we talk about perseverance, empathy, trust and teamwork, which, obviously that's a big one, right, even things like listening and rest, which seem more passive, actually help us to do like what you're talking about, live in the moment, right? And of course, Faith is an important part of of not being afraid, and we talk about that a lot, and just of listening to your instincts, listening to your own, you know, your own intuition. Um, so those are some of the like, the strategies in the book. And I think if people will, you know, read the book, they'll, they'll learn how to implement those strategies and teach themselves how to turn their Fear into Courage. And that's one of the reasons I'm excited about this book, Michael Hingson ** 37:17 and the reason we call the book live like a guide dog is that it's all about all of these lessons that we're talking about are lessons that I learned from observing dogs over the years. I've said a number of times, no offense to them, but I've learned a whole lot more about trust in teamwork and dealing with life from working with now eight guide dogs and my wife's dog, Fantasia, who was Africa's mother, and Fantasia was a breeder for guide dogs also. But I learned so much more from those dogs than I ever learned from all the team experts like Tony Robbins and Ken Blanchard and all that, because it's no offense to them, they teach a lot of good things, but it's personal and internalized when you have to live it, and you live it working with dogs, when the team learns how to to work well together, and I think it's so important to do that. So there's no doubt that in so many ways, this is a book about dogs, but it's also a book about more than that people and the relationship between dogs and people, the human animal bond, and something we haven't talked a lot about, which we can talk about briefly here, is that this book, just like thunder dog, since I am a firm believer in teamwork, was a collaborative effort. Susie and I worked together on thunderdog. We both wrote, we we evaluated each other's writings, and we put together a book that was very successful. And Carrie and I have done the same thing with live like a guide dog. It is a collaborative effort, and I think that's so important, because I think that the whole idea of teamwork brings different perspectives and different ideas that all ended up going into the book, and I think will make it a very successful book. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 39:13 Yeah. Well, thanks, Mike. It's been a really a lot of fun to work on. And like I said, I learned a lot. You know, it's interesting. You talked about learning from the dogs. There were times where your dogs had to learn from you, not to be afraid. Like, I don't know if you want to tell the story, sure, Klondike, when you were training him. Michael Hingson ** 39:32 Well, let me, let me first of all say, Well, I'll tell the story, and then I have a second Klondike story. So, and by the way, we talk about these in live like a guide dog, and some of it was referenced in thunderdog, but we get more relevant and detailed in live like a guide dog. But when I first met Klondike at Guide Dogs for the Blind, the class supervisor was Terry Barrett, who. Who I hadn't really gotten to know. But because of what happened, we became pretty close afterward. And what happened was when about the last week of the class, we started going into San Francisco to get good city work in and more populated areas and so on. And the first time we went in, everything was fine, but the second time we went in, when it was my turn to get off the bus, I stood up with Klondike, and as the closer I got to the front of the bus, the slower Klondike walked, and he started shaking and shivering and didn't even want to get off the bus. And so everybody else was off, and Terry came on and he said, what's going on? And I said, Well, I'm really concerned about this. And he said, Just be patient with him. Work it through. Dogs do develop beers from time to time, but they also are depending on us to show them the way to to to be calm. So we finally got Klondike off the bus, and as soon as we got off the bus, he began to work pretty well. The next day, the same thing happened, and again, Klondike was very fearful. By the third day, being patient with him and encouraging and supporting him, saw Klondike actually becoming less fearful, and we were able to work through that. You know, dogs do have fears. Roselle became afraid of thunder. And, in fact, the night before September 11, well the morning of September 11, at one or 12th midnight, or 112 30 in the morning, we had a thunderstorm, and Roselle was afraid of thunder. And I took Roselle downstairs, and she was shaking and shivering, but she was under my desk, and we got through it, and then we went upstairs, and we got some more sleep. And then, of course, we went into the World Trade Center, and people have said, well, she was afraid of thunder. Why wasn't she afraid when there was an explosion or whatever happened in the World Trade Center? The answer is, first of all, it wasn't that loud, but second of all, it wasn't thunder, they know. And so Roselle didn't have a problem with all the other stuff. Now, Klondike, let's just point out that Klondike is one of those religious dogs. One day we we were members of the San Marcos United Methodist Church, and the church had invited itinerant Minister Kimball Colburn to come and and do some some teaching. And that night, then the main night, he was there. He did an altar call, and Karen and I decided we'd go up. Karen was in her her wheelchair and and I said, you want to go up? And she said, yeah. So we, we were there. Klondike was there. And I told Klondike, just stay here. We'll be back. Just stay we get up to the front of the room. We're standing in line, and all of a sudden, right in front of us, comes Klondike and sits down. He wanted to be part of the altar call, and Kimball gave him the sacrament, you know, which? Which was great. But he was that kind of a very sensitive dog in so many ways, and so it's fun that he he did participate, and was such a wonderful companion for so many years. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 43:24 You know, Mike, I um, you said something about like when Klondike was afraid to get off the bus, and you didn't get mad at Klondike, you didn't shame him. You were just patient and reassuring and encouraging. And I think that you know whether you have a dog or not, when, when I feel afraid, one of the things I think that I live more like a guide dog now than I used to, is I try to be patient with myself and be okay. Kari, what's going on? Like, what's this fear? What? And instead of going, Oh, why are you so dumb, you should just be you should, you know, just tough it out and be brave and be strong. No, I'm patient with myself, I think, more than I used to be before I worked on this book. And I encourage myself. You can do this. You know, your feelings make sense. It's okay. Just stay in the moment. I kind of pep talk myself, but I'm very patient with myself, and I think that's a hard thing to do. We're all harder on ourselves than we are on other people. We say things to ourselves that we would never say to someone else, like, how many times you go I'm so that was so dumb. You know? You wouldn't say that to somebody else. 44:38 Some people do anyway, Keri Wyatt Kent ** 44:41 and and we don't, because that's not helpful, right? So it's more helpful to be kind to yourself, and I think that's one of the things I learned from this that has helped me deal with when I feel anxious or afraid, to just be patient with myself. Michael Hingson ** 44:56 Lashing Out is usually something that occurs because. Are afraid, and we've we've grown up learning those kinds of things rather than learning. Wait a minute, there are better ways and and unfortunately, as a society, we don't really teach people how to learn to deal with fear and to make it a positive attribute in our lives and help us stay more focused on whatever it is that we need to stay focused on, and that, in reality, the fear isn't the problem. It is how we deal with it. That's the problem, and we don't learn enough about how to step back and go, Wait a minute. We can do this differently. And the reality is, the more that we take the approach of Wait a minute and really analyze, the quicker the process becomes, yeah, the first or second or third time perhaps you do it, it's going to take you a while and you got to stop and analyze and so on. But that's why I say that the mind is a muscle, and you can develop that muscle and get yourself and your mind to the point where when something happens that's unexpected, you can have a mindset kick in that says, Wait a minute. Let's look at this, and very quickly, make the kind of determinations and decisions that you really want to make and that that other people learn to make, you know, I talk about steel Team Six and other kinds of military things, and all the things that that that they learn to do, and they do learn to do them, it's learned behavior. And the reality is that we all can do that we all can recognize that we can live in the moment, we can function in very productive ways, and that we don't need to allow fear to blind us or overwhelm us. I will not say, Don't be afraid, but you don't need to let it overwhelm you. Susy Flory ** 46:59 Yeah, Mike, I have a question for you that I don't remember if I've ever asked you this before, but it seems perfect for this concept of live like a guide dog, and that is, I know you were really quite young when you had your first guide dog. They made an exception for you, and I'm wondering what was the very first lesson you learned as a teenager from your very first guide dog. Michael Hingson ** 47:23 I think the very first thing that I learned, well there, there are a couple. The first thing that comes to mind is responsibility, because I was responsible for that dog, and at 14 years old, that's a pretty awesome kind of a task to be able to perform, and it isn't just feeding the dog, it's supporting the dog. And I had a month at Guide Dogs for the Blind where the trainers really talked a lot about that, and being the youngest kid there, it is something that I didn't necessarily learn instantly, but I did learn well over a few years. But the other thing that I did learn was a lot about trust. The the the trainers always said, Follow your dog. And I think some schools for a while were were very much in the mindset of your dog never makes mistakes, just follow your dog. Well, that doesn't work, and we all, I think, understood that, at least over time, but following your dog and learning to trust your dog and learning to establish that relationship with your dog was important. And what what happened was things like, I get to a street corner, and now, of course, it's even more relevant than it used to be. I get to a street corner, we stop. I'm listening to hear which way the traffic is going, and I will cross the street the way I want to go when I hear the traffic going parallel to where I want to travel, because if it's going across in front of me, it, you know, I have a master's degree in physics. I know about classical mechanics. Two pieces of matter can't occupy the same space at the same time. And classical mechanics, and I don't want the second piece of matter to be a big car that hits me, you know. So I need to make sure that the traffic is going the way I want to go before I cross, but I tell the dog forward, and the dog doesn't go. I have learned instantly, probably there's a reason. Now, it could be that the dog is distracted, although that's rare, because I've learned to trust my dogs. I mean, the dog could see a duck and wants to go visit, but typically, that isn't what happens, especially the more you get to know the dog and you realize there's a reason for the dog not moving. When we were running away from tower two, and we came to a place where there was an opening in the building next to us, and then we wanted. Get in and out of the dust cloud. I didn't know whether Roselle could hear me or see my hand signals, but I kept telling her right, right, right. And I heard an opening, and she obviously knew what I wanted. She turned right, she took one step, and she stopped. She would not move. And it took me a few seconds to realize, wait a minute, she stopped for a reason. It's what we call Intelligent Disobedience. That wasn't the term that we learned when I got squire my first dog. It was all about follow your dog, but Intelligent Disobedience is a very important part of working with a guide dog. The fact of the matter is that I need to trust the dog. When the dog stops and doesn't do what I expect, there's probably a reason. Well, Roselle stopped and wouldn't move. I investigated and discovered that we were at the top of a flight of stairs, and when I said forward, we went down the stairs, or likewise, getting back to the street corner. If I say forward and she doesn't go, or he doesn't go. There's probably a reason, and the reason, most likely today, is quiet cars or hybrid vehicles that are running in electric mode and I can't hear them, and there's one coming down the street and the dog doesn't want to get killed, much less get me killed, unless the dog doesn't like me very well. But I don't want that to be the case. So the fact of the matter is that we we develop that level of trust, and when the dog doesn't move, I'm going to stop and try to analyze and figure out what's going on, and then we go. But that trust was one of the most important things that I had to learn a lot about in ways that I had never learned before. You know, I've been blind my whole life. I trusted my parents and so on, and I I trusted my own skills. I walked to elementary school every day until we went to the fourth grade, and then I took bus to a different school, and I was able to learn to travel around the campus and all that, but still, creating a team was pretty new to me overall, when I got squire. And so learning that trust and learning that that's a very important thing, was something that that I had to do. And again, I think it's also important to recognize you don't trust blindly. And as I said before, dogs don't trust unconditionally. They're looking to develop trust, and dogs want to develop a trusting relationship with us, but it is something that that has to be done. So even today, if the dog stops and doesn't move, I'm not going to yell at the dog. I may be wondering, well, what's the issue here? But I will stop and recognize that most likely, there's a reason. And like I said, there's always that one possibility that it could be that they see a bird and they want to go visit the bird, but guide dogs generally are are chosen because they're not overly distracted. And I want to keep it that way, so it is all about trust. And that's that's something that we all need to learn. You know, I keep hearing people talk about in our political world, well, I trust this guy. He's talking to me. Sorry, that doesn't work. Trust has to be earned, and we have to each step back in whatever we're doing and look at what's going on around us, and when somebody says something to us, I'm generally going to take the time to analyze it and see if that's really true or not, and and the more that I find that I can relate to what someone says, the more I'm really apt to trust them. But I'm not going to trust them arbitrarily or, as I would say, blindly. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's great Susy Flory ** 54:02 trust, but verify. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 54:04 Yeah, it's important Exactly, exactly. Michael Hingson ** 54:08 But you know it's, it is? It is so wonderful when that kind of a relationship does occur, working with a guide dog, when the teaming relationship is there, working with people, when the teaming relationship is there, is so important and it's it's such an awesome experience to have. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 54:34 I think if you have trusting relationships, whether with an animal or another person, you will be generally less afraid because you feel a little safer in the world, not that you trust everyone, and not that you're never afraid, but if you have safe people or animals, or you know connections with others, that builds sort of a a. Reservoir within you of of goodwill that you are not afraid of everything you know. I think that's why you know people or animals who have been who have suffered abuse, are less are more fearful, right? They're less likely to trust because their trust has been betrayed in the past. Michael Hingson ** 55:21 We had one of those in 2003 we indicated, when I was at guide dogs that we would care for geriatric dogs. And in 2003 I was called. I was in my office at guide dogs, and the veterinarian department called and said, we have a senior dog. She's 12, and we were wondering if you could take her. She's fearful, she's deaf, she's got arthritis. She's got a big lump on her back, which we think is an infected cyst that we can take care of. But she had never been a guide dog. She was career changed before becoming a guide dog, and they just said it was temperament. We figured it probably later we realized it was very strong willed. It wasn't a bad thing, and that today, or in 2003 they knew more about how to deal with that, and she would have made a great guide dog. But anyway, I called Karen and told her about this dog. And so we met Panama, who was a 12 year old golden retriever. She was very fearful. They thought she was deaf because they dropped a big, large Webster's Dictionary right by her in Panama. Didn't even respond. We took her home, and over a couple of months, we discovered that she wasn't really totally deaf. She was she was old and she was fearful. We think that the people who had her last had just locked her in a garage, and they maybe abused her, I don't know, but we just supported her. She was afraid to go on walks with Karen in the wheelchair, but eventually she decided that that was okay, and so Karen and she would walk. And you know, of course, all of us supported her. She was she had enough arthritis. She really couldn't play roughly with the other dogs, but she liked to be around them. One day, we were going up to Oregon for a guide dog event from where we were in Northern California, and I was putting luggage in our car, so I opened the door going from our house into the garage, and all of a sudden, like a shot, this dog ran past me out into the garage, and the van was open. She ran up into the van and went into the main part of the car, the vehicle. We knew when that happened, that Panama had gone somewhere, she had crossed a line and developed enough of a trust that she was willing to go out and get in the car and be more a part of the family. But she was very fearful, and there were still a lot of other issues with her, but the more we worked with her, the more she realized that she could trust us and we had her. For before that, she had been afraid of the car, she had been afraid of the car, she had been afraid of people were afraid. She was afraid of everything. She was afraid of everything. And it was pretty amazing when suddenly she took that leap, and it got better from then on, but she knew that we were with her and that we would support her. 58:35 Yeah, that's a great story. Michael Hingson ** 58:36 Well, Susie, any any other thoughts or questions that you might have you you've been quiet lately. Susy Flory ** 58:45 What is your newest lesson? I that makes me curious too, because you've had Guide Dogs for a while now. You had a number of them. Each one's different. Each relationship is different. So with LMO, what might be your latest lesson that you're learning? Because we're all lifelong learners, right? Michael Hingson ** 59:05 I have been really impressed with some of the new training techniques that I've seen at Guide Dogs for the Blind. I mentioned clickers, which is sort of like a, you know, those metal crickets, you squeeze a minute ago, something like that. But the idea is that when I got Roselle, they had started really investigating new and better training techniques. And what I have found is that they actually have developed techniques using technologies and just different processes that they've been able to shorten the length of time it takes to learn to use, or it takes shorter times for the guide dog to learn to be a guide dog. When I went up to Oregon to get Panama. On excuse me to get Alamo, which was the first guide dog I've gotten in Oregon. So we went up in 2018 to get Alamo, and we graduated on my birthday, so he's a great birthday present. But anyway, when I was up there the first day we started walking, the trainer was right behind me, and I knew that she was carrying a clicker. We cross the street, and actually we got to the curb and and stopped, and she immediately clicked the clicker. What a clicker is is a device that's a demarcation. And when the dog does what you want, if you immediately click and then you follow it with food rewards, the click really tells the dog, good job. You don't use it in a negative way, and that's one of the positive ways to really work to develop good, strong relationships with dogs. Well, anyway, we crossed the street, and then we walked a little bit further, and suddenly we came to the opening to an alley, and the trainer said, Let's try and experiment, because Klondike or rose Alamo was going to just go across the alley, she said, the trainer did stop and back up. And when you get to the end of the alley, stop and tell the dog halt. I did. The trainer clicked. I gave Alamo a food reward. We went back a little bit and did that two or three times, and suddenly Alamo regularly would stop at the opening to that alley, which was a wise thing to do, because cars could come out. I don't know, but I bet today, six years later, if I were to go up to warring and we went down that same sidewalk and we got to that alley, Alamo would stop because the clicker reinforced the behavior in a very positive way, so much that he'll remember it. He's a very bright dog, and I'm absolutely confident that he would so some of the new training techniques and the brightness of the dogs to be able to take advantage of those things, I think, is so important. And I think one of the things that I found most intriguing going forward. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 1:02:06 I think you know that really points to positive reinforcement again. You know, with ourselves, with others. You know, if we're you know, you know, if we say we have a friend who is always fearful, and we if we just say, Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid, that doesn't really help, but if we notice them doing the right thing to point it out, I think that improves our relationship, and it can help that person overcome fear. Yeah, you know, yeah. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:32 And we've got to get away from so much negativity and really find more positive ways for us to reinforce ourselves and also to get that same behavior from other people. I think it is so important. Yeah, well, we've been doing this for a while. I guess I would ask if there are any kind of last thoughts that either of you have. We're, of course, excited that little like a guide dog came out today, and that hopefully everyone will now even be more intrigued and go buy it. We'd love it to be another best selling book. So we hope that you'll really join us in that journey. And so if anyone, if either of you have any other final comments or whatever, let's go ahead and do them. Just Keri Wyatt Kent ** 1:03:20 you know what? I hope that people will get this book and tell others about it, you know, write a review, tell a friend. You know. I'm sure we all have people in our life who love dogs and people who wrestle with fear, and either those type people would love to get a copy of this book. I Michael Hingson ** 1:03:41 think between those two classes of people that takes in everyone and I'm, I'm everyone Keri Wyatt Kent ** 1:03:46 in the world, everyone they either love dogs or they're afraid, Michael Hingson ** 1:03:51 or both, or both, and dogs can help teach us so many things. Susy Flory ** 1:03:57 Dogs are bridge builders. You know, everyone, almost everyone, can look at a dog and, you know, kind of feel that connection to the dog. Dogs feel the connection to people. And dogs don't care what political party we are or what we think about the news or which way the economy's going. I love how they live in the moment. They look for opportunities to connect, to play, to rest and just the rhythms of life of a dog. I think, you know, there's something that we can learn there about what's important and what is not as important. And the people in our lives and those we connect to are important. The labels, not so much. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 1:04:45 Yeah, love that. That's good word, Susy. Michael Hingson ** 1:04:48 And as long as at the beginning and end of the day we get fed, we're happy. That's what Alamo said. We Susy Flory ** 1:04:55 get our treats, then we gotta get our toys. Yeah? Michael Hingson ** 1:05:03 That is what matters. Well, I want to thank you both for being here and if, if either or both of you want to come on again. We we should do it, but I really want to thank you for taking the time to be here with us today. I would love to hear from all of you out there. Love to hear your thoughts about what you've heard today, what you learned. We would certainly appreciate it wherever you're listening or watching. If you'll give us a five star rating, we value those ratings very highly. If you'd like to reach out to me, it's easy. You can email me at Michael h i@accessibe.com that's M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S i b, E.com, or go to our podcast page, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and Michael hingson is M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S O N.com/podcast, and for you, Kari and Susy, both of you, how do people maybe reach out to you. Keri Wyatt Kent ** 1:06:02 I have a website, Carrie Wyatt, kent.com it's K E R, I, W, Y, A, T, T, K E N T. I'm also easy to find just by Googling and on on social media. My My full name is my handle on everything. So I'd love to connect on Instagram or Facebook. Um, it's my where I'm mostly at, or LinkedIn. Um, so yeah, Susy Flory ** 1:06:30 Susie, Yeah, same as Kari. You can find me kind of in those different places. And if you have a cute dog video or squirrel video, be sure and send it my way. And Michael Hingson ** 1:06:40 so what's your website? And Susy Flory ** 1:06:43 it's my name? Yeah, Susy flory.com my name is

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167. Exploring the Psychology of Money with David Frank

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 16, 2024 32:55

In this episode of The Private Practice Elevation Podcast, Daniel Fava chats with David Frank, founder of Turning Point Financial Planning, about the intricate relationship between money and psychology. Both professionals share their journeys, showing how their careers transitioned towards serving the mental health community. David provides insights into his role in assisting therapists with their financial planning, covering both personal finance and business structures. Throughout the episode, David Frank delves into the psychology of money and common mindsets that arise for business owners, particularly therapists. He explains how deep-seated beliefs and patterns from childhood influence financial behaviors and decisions. David also discusses the crucial role of conversation and speaking with trusted individuals in overcoming financial shame and anxiety. The importance of community, having professionals like financial planners on your team, and maintaining a stance of curiosity and non-judgment about financial matters are emphasized. The episode wraps up with actionable advice for therapists and business owners on managing their financial lives more effectively and with greater insight. Key Takeaways: Influence of Childhood on Money Mindset: Childhood experiences significantly shape financial behaviors and attitudes. Awareness and exploration of these can help in overcoming financial blocks. The Role of Community and Conversation: Sharing financial concerns with trusted individuals or professionals can alleviate shame and provide new perspectives, reducing anxiety. Curiosity and Non-Judgment: Adopting a curious, non-judgmental approach to financial issues can foster better understanding and more effective decision-making. Investing and Patience: Success in investing often requires patience and the ability to endure market fluctuations without reactive decision-making. Financial Planning for Therapists: Tailored financial planning services can bridge the gap between personal and professional finances, providing clarity and reducing stress for therapists. Links mentioned in this episode: Turning Point Financial Life Planning

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Early Signs of Distress: Identifying and Implementing Systemic Improvements

Leading Voices Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 12, 2024 42:15

How can district and state leaders identify signs of school distress long before they are designated as in need of improvement by state accountability systems? In 2020, WestEd partnered with the National Charter School Resource Center (NCSRC) to develop and conduct a portfolio of research (listed below) that identified signs of early distress in schools, or "indicators of distress," and described an approach to support school improvement efforts. When states and education decision-makers wanted to take the work further into implementation, what emerged is WestEd's Indicators of Distress, an evidence-based early detection system that can help charter and traditional schools meet and surpass accountability standards while fostering positive learning experiences for students. In this episode of the Leading Voices podcast, host Danny Torres talks with Aimee Evan, Senior Research Associate and School Improvement Specialist with the School Choice team at WestEd and co-author of the NCSRC reports, and two state education agency leaders, John Carwell Jr., Education Associate at the Delaware Department of Education, and David Frank, Chief of Staff and Assistant Commissioner, Education Policy, at the New York State Education Department. They discuss the Indicators of Distress approach and how the Delaware Department of Education and the New York State Education Department worked with WestEd to identify needed systemic improvements and implement processes and procedures that helped lead to sustained success. Their conversation covers the following topics: Implementing the Indicators of Distress approach in Delaware and New York Using data to inform decision-making Building a reliable model for school improvement Resources Mentioned in this Episode Indicators of Distress (Webpage) Indicators of Distress: A Proactive Approach to Identifying and Supporting Schools in Need of Improvement (Blog) Identifying Indicators of Distress in Charter Schools: Part 1 – The Role and Perspective of Charter School Authorizers (PDF) Identifying Indicators of Distress in Charter Schools, Part 2: The Roles and Perspectives of Charter School Leaders and Board Members (PDF) Identifying Indicators of Distress in Charter Schools: Tools to Support Authorizer Data Collection (PDF)

#49 - Just Gender: Preliminary Reflections on Trans Experiences

christians sharing sex reflections gender experiences trans pronouns definitions preliminary david frank

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 7, 2024 55:15

It's hard to know how to approach a topic that is simultaneously so personal and so full of theological implications. We, David Frank and TJ Espinoza, open up about our developing thoughts on trans experiences as it relates to the complexities of gender as both a social construct and part of biblical theology. In light of this, how might Christians consider ideas around third genders? How should they address violence against trans individuals? Are chosen pronouns an opportunity to manifest neighborliness or courage? Listen in as we try to lay some foundations, as we begin to wade into these sensitive challenges.__Timestamps(00:38) Today's snapshot: a preliminary-thoughts episode(06:43) Defining Transgender(08:00) Definitions and cultural uses of sex vs. gender(21:41) Acknowledging intersex(24:06) No violence is ever Christian(25:49) Pronouns, but we didn't get into it(26:43) Sex isn't a social construction, but gender is(32:43) "Third gender" concepts in different cultures(50:20) Questions we still have for trans people__If you like this podcast, please consider…→ Sharing feedback or questions! communionandshalom@gmail.com→ Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→ Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit communionshalom.substack.com

Addiction Medicine - #25 Methadone in the Clinic with Dr Ruth Potee and Dr David Frank

The Curbsiders Internal Medicine Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 18, 2024 66:22

OTP yea you know me Make methadone a part of your practice. Learn how the methadone system in the US works and how you can play an active role in improving care for people with opioid use disorder treated with methadone. We're joined by Dr. Ruth Potee @DrRuthPotee (website) and Dr. David Frank @highway_dave Claim CME for this episode at curbsiders.vcuhealth.org! By listening to this episode and completing CME, this can be used to count towards the new DEA 8-hr requirement on substance use disorders education. Episodes | Subscribe | Spotify | iTunes | CurbsidersAddictionMed@gmail.com | Free CME! Show Segments Intro, disclaimer, guest bio 5:00 Guest one-liner 10:25 Case from Kashlak; Definitions 11:19 Methadone pharmacology and evidence 17:08 What an OTP feels like 20:25 OTP intake 24:45 Talking through methadone with a patient 28:15 Personal impact of methadone 30:20 Requirements at an OTP 33:43 What your patient needs to access an OTP 37:25 The line 39:06 Dosing/Take homes 44:48 Loss of take homes 48:39 How to interact with an OTP as a PCP 52:50 Methadone at STRs 57:03 How to clinicians use their voice to improve things 1:00:45 Take home points 1:03:00 Plugs 1:04:24 Outro Credits Producer, Writer, Show Notes, Infographic, Cover Art: Shawn Cohen MD Hosts: Carolyn Chan, MD. MHS and Shawn Cohen MD Reviewer: Payel Jhoom Roy MD, MSc Showrunner: Carolyn Chan, MD, MHS Technical Production: PodPaste Guest: Ruth Potee MD, David Frank PhD

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S2 Ep14: #25 Methadone in the Clinic with Dr Ruth Potee and Dr David Frank

The Curbsiders Addiction Medicine Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 17, 2024 65:41

OTP yea you know me Make methadone a part of your practice. Learn how the methadone system in the US works and how you can play an active role in improving care for people with opioid use disorder treated with methadone. We're joined by Dr. Ruth Potee @DrRuthPotee (website) and Dr. David Frank @highway_dave Claim free CME for this episode at curbsiders.vcuhealth.org! By listening to this episode and completing CME, this can be used to count towards the new DEA 8-hr requirement on substance use disorders education. Episodes | Subscribe | Spotify | iTunes | CurbsidersAddictionMed@gmail.com | Free CME! Show Segments Intro, disclaimer, guest bio 5:00 Guest one-liner 10:25 Case from Kashlak; Definitions 11:19 Methadone pharmacology and evidence 17:08 What an OTP feels like 20:25 OTP intake 24:45 Talking through methadone with a patient 28:15 Personal impact of methadone 30:20 Requirements at an OTP 33:43 What your patient needs to access an OTP 37:25 The line 39:06 Dosing/Take homes 44:48 Loss of take homes 48:39 How to interact with an OTP as a PCP 52:50 Methadone at STRs 57:03 How to clinicians use their voice to improve things 1:00:45 Take home points 1:03:00 Plugs 1:04:24 Outro Credits Producer, Writer, Show Notes, Infographic, Cover Art: Shawn Cohen MD Hosts: Carolyn Chan, MD. MHS and Shawn Cohen MD Reviewer: Payel Jhoom Roy MD, MSc Showrunner: Carolyn Chan, MD, MHS Technical Production: PodPaste Guest: Ruth Potee MD, David Frank PhD

personal loss writer md claim requirements clinic dea cme infographics mhs otp methadone david frank free cme

#47 - Is the Bible Sex Positive?

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2024 60:40

Coming in hot, folks… David Frank and TJ Espinoza reflect on sex positivity and how they see parts of the Christian Bible interacting with sexual desire, goodness, transcendence, and meaning. There's nothing simple about the relationships between sex, marriage, having kids, pleasure, and our spiritual callings. But in those tensions, we also see goodness and fruitfulness. We hope that this discussion prompts more thinking for you all on what a comprehensive Christian sexual ethic can look like.This episode includes content suitable for adult audiences; listener discretion is advised.Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you're new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out Communion & Shalom episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠.__________Timestamps(03:23) What Sex Positive Usually Means(10:48) Evangelical Churches Are Just As Pro-Sex(16:55) Genesis, Song of Songs, Leviticus, Matthew, Revelation(17:51) Sexual Difference in the Garden (Genesis)(19:02) Consent Is Biblical (1st Corinthians)(20:13) Erotic Poetry Isn't Smut (Song of Songs)(26:04) Sex Is...Transcendent?...But NOT Worship (Leviticus)(45:33) Jesus: Yeah, but... there's no marriage in heaven (Matthew)(51:32) The (Sexless?) Bride of Christ (Revelation)(53:31) Let's Hear It for... Sex Mediocrity!__________Links and ReferencesWe referenced these sections of the Bible in this episode:* Genesis 2-3* Songs of Songs/Solomon (whole book)* Leviticus 15:18* Matthew 22:30* Revelation 19* James 1:17* Isaiah 56:3-5__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→Sharing feedback or questions! communionandshalom@gmail.com→Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit communionshalom.substack.com

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Episode 243 – Unstoppable Cutting-Edge Thinker and Renowned Coach with Bob Wright

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 25, 2024 59:26

Bob Wright is an Illinois guy through and through. He grew up just outside of Chicago. Interestingly enough, he decided much of Psychology was balderdash until he spent time in France. He will tell you this fascinating story. After returning to the states, he took up the subject for some of his Master's Degree work and then beyond. Although he didn't say it in so many words, once he began truly delving into Psychology, he was quite hooked and made aspects of it his career. He has been coaching for more than 40 years. He also understands sales and led his first sales course in 1981 for a part of Prudential Insurance where he vastly improved the performance of the group. Bob and I have quite the conversation as you will see. He even analyzes me a bit. We agreed that we will have a second episode later, but first, I will have the opportunity to talk with his wife, Judith, who is deeply involved with Bob's work at all levels. Stay tuned. About the Guest: Bob Wright is an internationally recognized speaker, author, and educator. He's a cutting-edge thinker, called upon by top leaders across the country. He coaches Fortune-level CEOS from coast to coast, as well as entrepreneurs. Part of what Bob loves is hitting every level, people that want to make a difference, people who are movers and shakers in the world, that's where his sweet spot is. In fact, he was called one of the top executive coaches by Crain's Chicago business. He led his first sales course in 1981 for Prudential Insurance, for a division of the organization that was ranked 200th out of 2000 nationally—within a month, they shot up to #16. He is also a dynamic entrepreneur who has founded several successful businesses His first venture, Human Effectiveness, was ranked tops in the country by the Mercer, as well as Arthur Andersen. He sold that business in 1994 to focus on consciousness, maximizing human performance, and the fulfillment of human potential. He has sold to Fortune level companies from coast to coast, has managed his own sales force, and was one of the first people in the country to develop a Neurolinguistic Programming Training for sales professionals. Likewise, he is the developer of The Wright Model of Human Growth and Development that we will work with this evening. This is a distinct opportunity to learn some concepts from a master who actually developed this and has helped numerous worked with it over time. Highly respected by major business figures – he has coached and trained leaders who have risen to national prominence in the areas of finance, technology, retirement, economics, compensation, governance, and the list goes on and on. Bob has trained and supported hundreds of sale professionals to higher levels of performance and satisfaction. It is common for people he supports to triple and even quintuple income while learning to have greater satisfaction and fulfillment in all areas of their lives. His cutting edge approach to selling is empowered by his revolutionary integrative model of human growth and development. Sales people he coaches find themselves enjoying life more, and succeed even in down markets. The people that he has coached and trained over these years are movers and shakers making a major difference in the world today. Ways to connect with Bob: drbobwright@judithandbob.com https://drbobwright.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi, welcome once again to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here I am your host, Mike hingson. And today we get to talk with Dr. Bob Wright. Bob is by any standard and entrepreneur and I would say very much an unstoppable one. He has started and, and sold many businesses in his life. He actually conducted his first sales course with a division of Prudential insurance in 1981. Now we're starting to pin down his age. And he he made that division go and sales from number 200 In a few weeks to number 16. I liked that. Having been in sales, a lot of my adult life. He loves to coach CEOs and entrepreneurs. And we'll find out what else So Bob, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Dr. Bob Wright ** 02:13 Thank you so much, Michael, I'm looking forward to talking with you. Michael Hingson ** 02:18 Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. And as I said, we got to have fun doing it. So I think we'll we'll do that. Tell us a bit about tell us a little bit about the early Bob, you know, growing up and all that sort of stuff that sort of shaped where you went and where you have gone in life? Dr. Bob Wright ** 02:37 Well, yeah, I was the almost the ultimate good boy. Everything My mom wanted me to be going through high school and then college begin throwing some monkey wrenches in the story. And it wasn't until my sophomore year of college when I went to Germany. And I discovered that the narrow world of wooddale, Illinois was far from all that was the world and that the values I learned there were the only values were not the only values in the world. And it was like this. Consciousness shock. Michael Hingson ** 03:17 What a concept, right? Yeah. Dr. Bob Wright ** 03:19 Now where's wooddale? West of O'Hare. Back in the days when Midway was the busiest airport in the world. Yeah, we're about 15 miles west of O'Hare. Michael Hingson ** 03:30 I have relatives in Genoa and DeKalb. So, and I was born in Chicago, so I'm a little bit familiar with the area, but I don't think I've been to wooddale Dr. Bob Wright ** 03:41 Oh, you've probably been through it if you know, Park Road. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 03:45 I might have very well been through it. Well, I live for my first five years on the south side of Chicago 5017 Union, and it's changed a lot since we moved in 1955. So that's okay, though. Things do need to change. It makes it makes for an interesting world otherwise, so where did you go to college? Dr. Bob Wright ** 04:06 Oh, well, I started at Lawrence in Appleton, Wisconsin. Ah, I went to school in Germany. Left Lawrence came back to the quarter at the College of DuPage. west of Chicago, graduated with my bachelor's from the University of Illinois, Chicago in sociology, because that was the subject that gave me the most credits and everything else I had done in my life. And so then I went to school, in in, in France after that, and that blew my mind even further. I mean, just horrendously drew mind blew my mind even further. Because I was always looking for what I thought of as ultimate truth. And the French experience just was the mind blowing, launch in some ways of my, my my life Michael Hingson ** 05:04 a lot different than even Germany, right? Well, it was different Dr. Bob Wright ** 05:08 than Germany and I had a database. The irony is that I'm in something that people think of as psychology, positive psychology, performance psychology, I think of it as my research in my life work as optimizing adult development. And going into high school, there was this really, you know, good counselor, we thought that my friends went to see. And I was already kind of against counselors because the the social worker and the grade school my mom's friend, and she would be sitting in our kitchen crying in our coffee about boyfriends every Saturday morning. And so I was going already these people are pretty darn weird. But my friends start seeing this woman, and and she starts telling these best, brightest kids in high school that they're latent ly suicidal. And they go, Whoa, this is really sick. Oh, stuff. And so then I was rapidly against psychology. Now, the rest of that story that is public domain, is there a husband was this guidance counselor down the road, Irving Park Road, another 20 some odd miles at Lake Park High School, they were a murder suicide. He boy, so that's nailed down my assumption. This is all inland as sickos know, I'm in school in France, and I'm going to study phenomenology. But my in six months, my French wasn't good enough to understand philosophy classes. So I ended up taking psychology classes, I could understand them. They were an English, that got me into group dynamics, which led to the rest of the story that I have discovered, there are well Valid Elements of psychology. And it is really the people not the discipline. That was the problem back then. So Michael Hingson ** 07:07 they weren't all just sickos after all? I Dr. Bob Wright ** 07:11 don't think so. Either that or you joined the ranks? No, no, no, not at all. But the profession in search of validity for a long time, right, so profoundly insecure? Well, it's Michael Hingson ** 07:23 a it's a tough subject, because a lot of it is is so I'm not quite sure how to describe it. It's so nebulous, it's so much that you can't really just pin it down and define it. You're dealing with emotions, you're dealing with people's attitudes, and so on. And that's really pretty nebulous, it's really kind of hard to just define it in so many words. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 07:51 if we don't go to human experience, then we'd have nothing. But you've got to figure back in the 50s and 60s and 70s, the humanistic psychology movement was transforming businesses, or Life magazine had an issue that said, sooner or later, everybody's going to be an encounter group at their church or somewhere else. And so what what happened was, they still never tied that up to performance. And so you fast forward, and you get a guy named Goldman who bring in Oh, psychology, so wanted to be as science. And he starts out with positive psychology. He denies everything before, which is just absolutely not true. He and I are similar ages, and we grew up breathing those things. But positive psychology now has a deep research base that is becoming less and less nebulous, whether it's the emotional part with Frederick SENS Research, or his his part with other positive psychology research. So it's kind of cool, what's happening. And it just, unfortunately, doesn't include what happened before because it was so thoroughly attacked. Michael Hingson ** 08:58 Well, and it's, it's an evolutionary process, right. Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Which is, which is exactly the issue. And that's, that's true of a lot of sciences. I mean, we can go back and look at physics and look at any any of the sciences and they've evolved over the years for a long time, classical mechanics, was it everything fit Newtonian law, but then we discovered that well, it's not quite that way, especially when you get closer to the speed of light. A lot of things change, but also, attitudes and philosophies of of sciences have have changed. So what you're saying certainly is no surprise, psychology as a science, social science or whatever, is still a pretty new science by comparison. So you're Dr. Bob Wright ** 09:47 obviously a science guy more than I knew. And so, did you read Boones structures of Scientific Revolutions a long time ago. So that is where the term is. Trent was a sap perspective transformation, a new paradigm. That's yeah, he coined the term paradigm as we use it today. And he's in particular talking about the disconnect between Newtonian physics and einsteinium physics. And that gets us down to all the different paradigms, because a paradigm is a shift in knowledge. And the paradigm that psychology is wrestling with, is the shift from pathology and problems to potential and realizing making real our potential. Right. Michael Hingson ** 10:35 And again, still, that is a harder thing to quantify them what you can do with a lot of physics, we also know that Einsteinian physics doesn't go far enough, but it's what we know, or what we have known. And again, we're evolving, but in the case of what you're talking about, it's a lot harder to pin down and put an exact number two, which is what also makes it a little bit more of a challenge. And we need to learn better how to define that, and communicate it as we move forward. Dr. Bob Wright ** 11:03 Well, you know, that's the bind of pure research, but I've got a slightly different perspective on this. So what we measure our success against is the total quality of somebody's life, their relationships, their work, their personal concept, and their spiritual and their service to our world. And so in our work, now, our foundation is closing down in December, sadly, because we didn't survive COVID. But we had more than 90% of our students felt that they were living with a higher sense of purpose and spiritual integration. They tended to make more money by 30% or more in the first year of working with us. And and the divorce rate in our advanced couples was under 4%. And in the entire school, was under 9%. The last time we took a survey on that. So when if you've got the elements that typical markers of a quality of life, looking there, and they their self esteem was higher, people gave them comments that they looked better, and even commented to a lot of them that they look younger. So if you take those variables, we're now starting to find something for which everyone is reaching, whether it's better relationship, more money, more career fulfillment, or more contribution to the world, we help you be more you. And our core assumption is, then you will automatically grow in all those areas, the mistake so many disciplines make is they forget that the core element of that entire formula is the individual. And if we can help the individual optimize their self them themselves, then they are going to automatically begin shifting how they operate in those areas and get stronger and stronger in directions that are more satisfying, fulfilling, fulfilling and contributory to our world. By Michael Hingson ** 12:52 definition. Yeah. 12:54 Isn't that cool? Michael Hingson ** 12:55 Which makes a lot of sense. Well, some for you. You went on and got a doctorate and so on. But when you when you started coaching, I guess really the question is what got you into the whole environment of applied integrative psychology and coaching? What what really got you there? Okay, Dr. Bob Wright ** 13:16 so, remember, we have a totally anti psychology, right? I have a taste of what we called existential psychology and group dynamics in France. So when I came back from France, I looked for the strongest program to get more training. And it was training in, in all the existential application of Gestalt transactional analysis. And the various body works and things of the time. And I studied those, I became a trainer in those. And it was wonderful to watch people learn and grow. But you still couldn't make a lot of money that way. So I went back to school and got an MSW and I, my goal was to be a therapist, therapist, and my partner Bob Kaufman was my supervisor and my MSW. And we built a business called human effectiveness. And by the mid 80s, we were doing 300 services a week, a third of whom were psychology types. And, and so that was my retirement goal. And in addition to that, we were leading in a lot of ways in what was called employee assistance and manage psychiatric care. And we were doing consulting and training, which is where you heard the story about Prudential. And so that was kind of the way to make money doing it and get licensed because I knew I was good at helping people and I just wanted the easiest and quickest license to get and that was an MSW Michael Hingson ** 14:49 said then you got that and what did you do? Dr. Bob Wright ** 14:51 So human effectiveness was our was our business from the 1979 To 1994. Michael Hingson ** 15:02 And that was a business you started human effectiveness. Yeah. And Dr. Bob Wright ** 15:05 so we had a very unique model of therapy using individual and group off of what Bob postle called contemporary Adlerian. Therapy. And we developed that more and more and more. And we started getting higher and higher functioning clients. And our clients were moving way beyond the therapy ideal. Their lives were taking off in all the areas we've discussed. And we started that we're doing well, in 82, we hired a PhD, you have to be dissertation approved, PhD from Yale, they had him start doing consumer research, found out that people loved what they were getting one time, near the mid 80s, I had a two year waiting list. And so when we asked our clients what was going on, and they said, We love it, but you're not telling us everything they wanted to know. And my first master's, which was in communications, was helping people in a psychiatric hospital, oriented to that psychiatric hospital. And so, what what, I've always been a consumer guy, and so we started putting together seminars to help our clients understand what was going on. So that changed our model, from individual group to seminars to training them, we did more and more research and they kept telling us more and more of what they wanted. So the model eventually, included Alfred Adler, existential developmental Albert Adler's areas of life, existential principles, and developmental levels, all in an axis of consciousness, helping people grow their consciousness, awareness and responsibility in life. And so those seminars were training people, many of whom could analyze their own life situation and strategize better than licensed psychologist. So we begin, we begin going, why why aren't people getting credit for this. So that's why we started graduate school on the road. And I left the therapy metaphor in 91. We started working towards developing our model in our seminars to be more and more effective with Judith in 9495, which led to the right foundation for the realization of human potential, and the right graduate university for the realization of human potential, offering master's and doctoral degrees in transformational leadership and coaching. We even got an MBA credited. Now that is, now that the foundation is closing down at Maharishi University in Iowa. So the program goes on. But the foundation is no longer running Michael Hingson ** 17:40 it. And Judith is Dr. Bob Wright ** 17:43 Judith and I are stepping into what we think is our ultimate mission is couples, couples, and helping people come become more conscious, responsible, satisfied in service filled couples. And so we're kicking that off in January. Michael Hingson ** 17:58 And how long have you guys been together? Dr. Bob Wright ** 18:02 We got married in 81. So it's 42 years or two years? Yeah. Wow. Michael Hingson ** 18:08 Well, you have beat Karen and me by a year. But as I think I told you, she passed away last year. So we were married for two years and loved it and lots of memories. But I can appreciate the fact that you guys have made it work. And you've also worked together, which is as good as it gets. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 18:28 so so the last two books we've written together, and to understand so the last book is called battling to Bliss. The couple's Guide to 15 Common fights, what they really mean how they can bring you closer. So our previous book called transformed. We had one paragraph as we were driving back from Texas to Illinois, that we fought over for probably an hour. And Judith has this wonderful mind. And I just, I'm the one that pushes things to get done. So I said that that sentence is good enough. She says, No, that sentence doesn't work with this. I'm going to come on down it. So she wins that sentence. And she wins. She ended up winning all four sentences. But I ended up winning and moving on. So movement is more my specialty and accuracy and depth is well we both do depth is Judith. So battling to Bliss is really about people people think fights are a problem. They don't understand fights are a symptom that you're dealing in, that you're working on becoming a better stronger couple together. Michael Hingson ** 19:36 Yeah, and so there's nothing wrong with disagreeing as long as you eventually work together and recognize what you're doing and need to do. So. You're both one which is what it's really all about. Dr. Bob Wright ** 19:50 Amen. You got it. So you develop Michael Hingson ** 19:54 this thing you call the right model of human growth and development. And that's I guess what you're basically alluding to in the early 1990s? Well, I actually Dr. Bob Wright ** 20:05 had Scott started with that research in 1982. And it developed. So the first thing we did was help people vision. Now, the work from Dr. Boyd says that Case Western is that vision is way more important than goals. So we'd have people write a vision in seven areas of life and measure their progress against that every four months. And they go, Wow, man, we're growing twice as fast. But you're still not telling us everything. We said? Well, the truth of the matter is, we think of you developmentally and we're seeking to help you develop in ways that you didn't get developed are all like plants that never got perfect nourishment. And we're helping you fill in those things. And so that led to a developmental axis of consciousness for them. And then we did another round of research. And they said, we're still not telling you said anything. We said, Well, the truth of the matter is, we're existentialists. And we, we just think if you're fully present in here, now you'll learn you'll grow, and you'll become the best you you can become. And so that brought in an existential aspect about the here and now, people engaging. And it's all driven by what we call the assignment way of living, which was started by Bob postal, who was part of the Alfred Adler Institute in Chicago back in the 1970s. Michael Hingson ** 21:24 Okay, so but you developed it, and is that what you use in the the coaching that you did? And that you do? Dr. Bob Wright ** 21:33 That? Absolutely. I'm working with. I'm working with an attorney who's shifting professions now, from law to coaching. And so what I do periodically is help her understand when she has a win. How did that win, take her on a step forward in her development, and then I help her understand how that win actually can be leveraged if she will have the discipline to keep doing it. Most. There's a thing called neuroplasticity. And most of the world is a little bit over in love with it. Because thinking oh, yeah, we can automatically change No, it takes 1000s of repetitions. So help her understand a vision of what it's going to mean to consistently redo that way of doing things. She challenges unconscious limiting beliefs, because our program was pretty much done by age seven, we are living out a self fulfilling prophecy off of our early programming. If we don't do things to transform, we can learn and grow. But transforming is the challenge. Michael Hingson ** 22:39 Yeah, so what's the difference between growth and transforming? Dr. Bob Wright ** 22:45 We're working on that for the founder of an incredible Japanese coaching group called coach a and his name is Ito son. And, and so learning is knowing something I didn't know before. Growing is doing something I've never done before. But in Judas research, the people who are in touch with their deeper yearning, engage more, and they learn more, it reveals to them regulating their limiting beliefs and their skill deficits. And it also causes them to share with other people that causes them to begin challenging their limiting beliefs. And so learning and growing can be yearning, it can be learned, knowing things and doing things who would have never done we call that liberating. When you're doing things you never would have done. Transforming requires that you pray that you that you strategically do new things in the direction that will consistently challenge some of your unconscious limiting patterns. If you think about what we have our neural pathways imagine we have a neural highway. And everything we do runs along that neural highway. But we want to cut a take a shorter road from Highway A to highway B. So we go into the jungle. Well, we get into the jungle halfway and we look back, we can't even see where we've gone. To get to highway B, we may get to highway B, but we will find out how to get back to Highway A. So we're still going to be doing the same thing. So we the first level of of as we think about it of transformation, neuro transformation is going back and forth along that path enough that we can see where we've been and we can repeat it. Then we have to widen that path. And we have to turn it into a well trodden path. And eventually if it becomes a superhighway, we have transformed and we are doing things that we never could have done before. Michael Hingson ** 24:49 How do you get people to really overcome their limiting beliefs what what is it that you do as a coach that brings people maybe To that aha moment, and maybe it isn't quite so dramatic, maybe it isn't that at all, but it's more subtle, but how do you get people to the point where they recognize, oh, maybe it's not really quite what we thought, because not everybody's gonna go to France. Okay, Dr. Bob Wright ** 25:16 so first of all, none of us has ever done. So I'm still dealing with my own limiting beliefs, and, and building new neural pathways the same way. But there's a way we start is what we call an Adlerian Lifestyle Analysis, Alfred Adler helped people understand there are perceptions, the unconscious beliefs that guide us, we have empowering our perceptions, limiting beliefs, empowering beliefs, that we we have limiting beliefs is our language for the limiting perceptions in Adlerian terms. And so when we understand that most of those were installed, by the time we were seven, we can do a lifetime and Adlerian lifestyle analysis that will help you understand your early programming in a way that can empower your growth the rest of your life or inform your growth the rest of your life and your learning and ultimate transformation. Michael Hingson ** 26:15 Okay, and how do people perceive that? Dr. Bob Wright ** 26:21 Well, the first time I experienced it was in front of a room of maybe 50 therapists. And it was a demonstration by Bob postal, the Adlerian, I mentioned. And I went up front. And in about 1510 minutes, I'm bawling my eyes out, as he's basically telling me my life story in ways that were profoundly true that I had never imagined. And most, most people except the most defensive, are blown away, that it can be that easily accessed. Michael Hingson ** 26:54 So, alright, so he, he demonstrated that he knew you better than you thought he knew you and perhaps better than you knew yourself, then what? Dr. Bob Wright ** 27:05 Well, first of all, he called it like mind reading. And it's what it feels like it feels like he's talking to somebody who's doing mind reading, and Bob postal it, boiled it down to like seven questions. Your birth order is super important in how you look for affection and affirmation in life. If you're the firstborn, did you win? Did you maintain what Adler called a position of primacy? Or were you overrun by a second, third or fourth born? In which case, that's a terrible blow to your self esteem? And so, how we negotiate birth order is probably the most important element of that. And then there are other elements, like who was mom's favorite? Who was dad's favorite? And we get everybody you know, most 90 90% of people say, Oh, no, my mom and dad, they were equal. That's absolute horse manure. And so what we get to that by is who is most like dad, who was most like, mom? And if you were in the zoo, walking and looking at things who would mom who would be holding Mom's hand and who would be holding Dad's hand? And then once we get to larger families, it gets even more complex? Michael Hingson ** 28:15 How do you deal with that? And I asked that, knowing that in my family, of course, I was blind, I was the second child. And I think my brother always felt like he wasn't quite as well received, even though he was two years older. But in reality, when I look back on it, what my parents did was really worked, not to show favoritism, but they did have to do things differently with me than they did with him because he could see, and I didn't, but I think they really worked at it. But I think his perception always was that he wasn't the favorite, even though that I don't think that really was the case as I sit and analyze it even now. Dr. Bob Wright ** 29:03 Well, you know, he may not have been wrong. He might not have been got more attention. So the primary indicator of a favorite is attention. It doesn't necessarily mean for what, because you get seen more, you get more interest more, you develop a sense that you matter. And he's developing a sense that he doesn't matter. So in Adlerian terms, you may have overrun him, and that was a terrible blow to his self esteem. Michael Hingson ** 29:33 Yeah. Yeah. Even though this Oh, sure. If you want Dr. Bob Wright ** 29:38 go ahead. So how's he doing today? Michael Hingson ** 29:40 He passed away in 2015. So he died of of cancer. Dr. Bob Wright ** 29:45 How did he do in life? Well, Michael Hingson ** 29:47 fair question. He ended up working for the Customs Organization, the US customs in communications. He was married for, gosh, probably close to 40 years as well. I'm not sure that he was as happy as he would like, just in looking at it. He tended to want to be very controlling. And his wife didn't have a problem with that. But I think that I think there were some issues, but I think he did. Okay, but not great. Dr. Bob Wright ** 30:28 So you've been happier in life than he has, even though you have a profound challenge. Well, Michael Hingson ** 30:35 I think the challenge is more perceptual than in reality, but Yeah, probably. That's it. Dr. Bob Wright ** 30:41 Thanks very much. Michael Hingson ** 30:44 That's probably so. Dr. Bob Wright ** 30:47 But I also so your dad overran him. Yeah, I Michael Hingson ** 30:51 hear you. You did. Even though we even though later in life, he was in Florida, and I was in California, or in New Jersey. I think I appreciate what you're saying. Yeah. Dr. Bob Wright ** 31:05 Yeah, it's it's hard for us to accept when we start looking at these unconscious elements of what's called the family system. And and the system is there's no blame. There's no blaming. Yeah. But But who is your mom's favorite? Michael Hingson ** 31:21 Well, I'm sure that that there are those that would say it was me. I'm not, I'm not really so sure. Because the way my mom interacted with us, was was different with each of us. She had to help me learn braille again, when I was going from third to fourth grade. And she took the time to do that. But she also did take the time with my brother, but I'm sure that he would tell you that I was, Dr. Bob Wright ** 31:48 well, what was your dad's favorite? Oh, Michael Hingson ** 31:53 I'm sure that, that my dad and I spent more time together because I was interested in things that he was much more than my brother like electronics and science. So I'm sure I Dr. Bob Wright ** 32:02 was, who was murdered? Michael Hingson ** 32:06 Gee, that depends, I guess, on everything, but probably I was. Nobody ever wants to answer this, by the way, probably. But probably for a lot of reasons. I would say I was. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 32:15 pretty obviously. So we don't know what his potential would have been. Right, who got developed? And so my guess is he was actually your mom's favorite. He might very well have been. But But I think it was your mom's favorite because your mom counted on him to keep things working in the family while he was hungry, but didn't didn't know how to do anything. But please her as she was ministering to you. And as your dad was enjoying playing with you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's Michael Hingson ** 32:50 a lot of there's a lot of truth to that. Dr. Bob Wright ** 32:52 Yeah, I know. I just, it's so much fun to get out of this. Michael. Yeah. It Michael Hingson ** 32:59 makes a lot of sense to, to really look at it in the in the way that you're doing. But I think there's there's another aspect of it, and it's part of human nature, that gets to be a challenge. Because he was probably a person who felt not as happy, not as loved and didn't know how to deal with that, and maybe address it in his own life. And I learned how to do some of that, and learn how to deal with a lot of the challenges that I faced socially, and, and economically. But I think that one of the things that he never did learn was how to go back and look at himself and look at his life and grow in the same way. Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 33:50 amen. Probably wasn't as inquisitive as you know, Michael Hingson ** 33:54 I'm sure he was not. That I'm very sure of. And it's it is a it's an issue because one of the things that I maintain today is that all of us can do so much more to grow. If we would spend more time even just in the evening before we go to sleep, being introspective, looking at whatever happened on a given day. And why it happened the way it did, what could we improve? What went great, what could we even have done to make what went great greater? And I know that he didn't do a lot of that, Dr. Bob Wright ** 34:28 you know, there's actually a spiritual discipline with the max handle Rosicrucians that, that goes into that. I'm not a follower of theirs, but this they call it a retro flexion or retrospect, I forget what they call it. Exactly. Because when I was in school in France, the game was the minute your head hit the pillow. You were to rewind your day in reverse to when you first woke up. Yeah, and it's incredibly challenging. It is our emotions get I get sparked off, we get to see where we had unfinished business during the day. And it took me all of pretty close to a year before I got back to a morning, and that was pretty diligence, did diligent application. And so I think you're absolutely right. Michael Hingson ** 35:23 There's a lot of value in in doing it. Because no one can teach us anything people can give us information. But we have to teach ourselves. And I've learned, even just this year, I now hate calling myself my own worst critic. When I listen to speeches and other things I always have said, I'm my own worst critic, and when in reality is the case is I'm my own best teacher, because I'm the one that can teach me. And it's always good to take a much more positive approach. And recognizing that actually helps when I go back and analyze the day and analyze the things that have gone on. Because I look for the lessons. And the lessons aren't just in the things that went wrong or the difficult things. The lessons can come from anywhere, but we have to look for them. Dr. Bob Wright ** 36:08 So you just defined the transformation of a perfectionist, perfectionist, criticized because it's the work outcome that matters. And people that are learning and growing and stepping beyond perfection. Look for the lessons. So you just described you growing, from avoiding mistakes, to feeling more and more success and satisfaction in learning and growing. Congratulations. Well, thank Michael Hingson ** 36:37 you. And even the so called Mistakes You know, there aren't they're not a mistake until it ended up being one. And again, the lesson is, what do you learn and do about it? Yeah, Dr. Bob Wright ** 36:46 but you're unusual, Michael, because you've actually taken a philosophy and applied it. A lot of people would say the same things you just said. But they don't practice it. I believe you practice it. Michael Hingson ** 36:58 And you know what? It's fun. Dr. Bob Wright ** 37:01 It says pretty clear. Yeah. You have fun way before now. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 37:05 Well, I like to look for the for fun. Personally, I think life is an adventure. For years, I've called the Internet, a treasure trove an adventure. And yeah, there's a lot of stuff. And there's a dark side. And there are all sorts of different things that go on. But there's also so much information that's out there if we bought look for it and use it. Amen. So it really, it really helps a great deal. And you know, so it's, it's worth doing well, in your case. So, you you have been so what business do you own? Now? What What's your business called? Or do you have one right now? Well, Dr. Bob Wright ** 37:47 we write business Inc has been our flowthrough business forever. But we are reemerging to the world as live right? Li ve WRI ght with Judith and Bob. That is our new go to market identity. Pool. Michael Hingson ** 38:07 That's a great name. And certainly, from a marketing standpoint, one that somebody can remember. Dr. Bob Wright ** 38:14 Well, right now we only exist online is D r B o b.com. And Dr. Judith, Bob Wright, dot com or Judith wright.com I think or at any rate, we don't have a joint website yet. We'll be launching that in December, God Willing and the creek don't rise Michael Hingson ** 38:35 well and make it accessible. And if you want help with that, I can help Dr. Bob Wright ** 38:41 you. So so cool. Cool. I'm gonna have to find out more about what you can do them. Because I really don't know, Michael Hingson ** 38:48 we can talk about that. And we can talk about ways to do it. And it's and it's something that that you should do. Because the reality is what most people don't realize is that the cost of doing business should really make sure that inclusion is part of it. You know, I when looking for jobs and talking to many, I'll just use blind people as an example. We've had companies say but I can't buy a screen reader for you. That's not in our budget. Well, you know, sure it is you buy computer monitors for everyone. I don't need a monitor. But I do need a screen reader. Inclusion ought to be part of the cost of doing business. Dr. Bob Wright ** 39:26 Well, which is why you're going to be our consultants. So we our desire is to have our work available in all languages. We're going to be putting out our couples book the heart of the fight in Spanish. The heart of the fight reached number one nonfiction best seller in China, Judas soft addictions solution is, as of our last knowledge, number 10 self help in China. And so the languages aren't just words and spoken are they but there's I mean, there's there's what do you call blind accessibility? Michael? Michael Hingson ** 40:06 Well, there are a couple of ways to do something like that. A lot of it is just doing the right things on on your website, or when you produce a book, if you have graphs, they should and pictures, they should be defined. You can do an electronic version, you can do an audio version. And there are ways also to put the book in Braille. And again, we can we can certainly talk about that. Well, Dr. Bob Wright ** 40:28 I'm zipping myself an email to circle back with you on that. So let's keep going with what you've got today. Michael Hingson ** 40:36 Well, definitely one thing I need to say, because I was looking for when I was getting ready for now, is I would like to have pictures of your book covers that we can put in the cover notes so that people can go off and find them later. Dr. Bob Wright ** 40:51 We'll get it. Perfect. Michael Hingson ** 40:53 Well, tell me a little bit more about you and coaching. What ultimately do people get out of what you do? After a question, Dr. Bob Wright ** 41:07 you know, I'm gonna go back a little further, we get everybody knows we get what we put into things. Yeah. And so to get Michael Hingson ** 41:16 the most out of coke, good psychological answer, go ahead. Dr. Bob Wright ** 41:19 Well, I'm actually going to answer it. I appreciate the work up to I'm gonna work up to it. So the investment is time, money and personal upset. The price most people are not willing to pay is the person will upset we have to do to stretch beyond our own serious limit deeper mental limitations. And when we do that, for me, I had a lot of limiting beliefs about money. I could give you stories, we talked about the mythology rules, myths and beliefs about money when I looked growing up, my dad's brothers, who had way more money than we had, didn't have a marriage as good as my dad's marriage. And one of my dad's brothers was a particular jerk. And he was the wealthiest of them. And so I draw this conclusion from early on in life, because we all grew up within miles of each other, or blocks, actually, that it's either money or relationship. So a limiting belief I've had to challenge forever, is money and relationship. And fortunately, I'm making some progress on that and intend to make even more before I'm done. Well, Michael Hingson ** 42:37 it's interesting. People think that if they have a lot of money, they're successful, and they're happy. And what pops into my mind? And I'm not going to try to get political here. But what pops into my mind is Donald Trump, I wonder how happy he really is. Dr. Bob Wright ** 42:54 You know, we can actually dive right into the happiness things. First of all, there's a lot of research on it that would show that he doesn't have the characteristics. But that's another story. But right, I hear you. But I think everybody has a formula for happiness, most of them are wrong. Yeah. And I think the good fortune in my relationship foundation is relationship. You know that happiness research says, the biggest variable is learning and growing. The happiest people are engaged in learning and growing. There, they have New Horizons coming up, that they can learn and grow together and a couple or whatever they're doing, but they learn and grow. That's happiest. Michael Hingson ** 43:33 That's the most successful thing that one can do. And it is all about learning and growing, and wanting to learn and grow. And I think he pointed out very well, a lot of people will provide lip service to a lot of this. But the reality is, they're not really growing. It's just a lot of talk. Habits are hard to break it. I've heard all sorts of different numbers about how many times you need to do something to change a habit. But still, ultimately, it doesn't happen until you can, not only intellectually but emotionally recognize that the change needs to happen and then do it. Dr. Bob Wright ** 44:15 So that's that's the end the cost. So Judas seminal work on soft addictions was looking at the cost that turned out causes a lot of people to take on the habits. However, a habit is a behavior to order to change the deeper level behind that habit. Because they have, it's always doing something for us in service of a limiting belief. And so a limiting habits because we remember two kinds of beliefs, two kinds of habits, empowering and disempowering. And so it's really important to understand, if I really want to learn and grow to the max, I have to go through the discomfort of not just changing the habit, but changing by myself my thoughts, feelings and actions at the foundational level Michael Hingson ** 44:59 and that's The cost. Yes, sir. And it's it's not as expensive as one might think, if you really apply it and do it. But the problem is, so many of us don't want to do that, because we're just, I hate hearing while I'm, you know, people are in their comfort zone, they don't want to change. We talk about change all the time. But I think people don't want to change I think we we are brought up to just like our comfort zones and not wanting to change, we don't do what we talked about before retrospection or introspection, that's too much work. And so we we don't get taught by others nearly as much as we should. The real value of change, but change is all around us. And change is going to be everywhere. I after September 11, I kept hearing, we got to get back to normal, we got to get back to doing things the normal way. And I bristled at that. And it took me a little while to understand why I was so upset with it. But I finally realized, normal will never be the same. Again, we can't get back to normal because if we do, we're going to have the same thing. And we will have learned absolutely nothing. Even with a pandemic, I hear about getting back to normal, but normal will never be the same again, the Dr. Bob Wright ** 46:17 problem that you're getting it from me that I think about with that usually is that normal is is average, and none of us really want to be average, we want to be better than normal. So why would we want to get back to normal when we still haven't hit our potential? Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 46:36 But we're not thinking about that. And we haven't learned to think in that way. Until we Dr. Bob Wright ** 46:41 understand Judith research. So there's yearning, engaging, and regulating seeing where my limitations come in. Then liberating challenging those limitations. It's so challenging those limitations, and then re matrixing. And then I have to keep stretching myself towards the new, further goals. That forced me to look beyond my limiting beliefs, because they're always there. And they're always are rising beyond them. Michael Hingson ** 47:07 How do we get people to be able to do that? Dr. Bob Wright ** 47:10 I don't, we don't get people to do anything. It's all about investment. Will they pay the price? Spend the time reading the money, what they need to do? I was talking to a guy today who's ultra ultra wealthy, who started out with my former partner. And he would never have been able to pay my partner's rates today. And I said, You mean, you wouldn't have charged it on your credit card at least to find out? You know, what he could do for you? And so the people that I see that really want it, some people just charge it on the credit card, but they don't do it. Others? Do, they charge it on the credit card, and they've got that credit card paid off and are able to really fly with the overtime? Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 48:00 so and I was delivered and asking the question the way I did, but it isn't how do we get people to do things? What is it that will make people understand that they need to change? I mean, you've been coaching a long time. And I know there's not one key but what, what, more often than not is the trigger that make people go, Ah, I gotta really think more about this. Dr. Bob Wright ** 48:27 You know, there are a lot of things in life traumas, car accidents, deaths, losses, that move people into that. There's a thing called a sociopath is sociopaths, not wanting to get divorced, will sometimes start looking at themselves for the first time. And so but but I think that, that Adlerian analysis, when people understand that there is an objective way to look at who they are today, it's your strengths and your weaknesses, as revealed by that lifestyle analysis we started playing with with you, then as you understand that there really is a way to do it, and it is systematic and reproducible, then the game starts really shifting, but most of the world doesn't believe it's possible because so many people are selling so much horse manure. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 49:21 And we haven't learned to separate all the negative negativity in as you said, the horsemen or from from the positive stuff, we, we just haven't really learned how to do that and the people who have can really start to deal with it. One of the things that I have experienced over the past several years, especially with the pandemic is that for years I would travel and speak and tell people about my story and people said, well, you're blind. Of course you didn't know what happened. I point out well, the airplane had 18 floors above us on the other side of the building I got to tell you, nobody knew Superman and X ray vision are fictitious. Right? Well, but then the the other part about it is that what I realized over time was that the reason I wasn't afraid was that I prepared. I learned all about the World Trade Center, I learned what the emergency evacuation procedures were, I learned why they were as they were. And so when something actually happened, I was prepared for it. I didn't need to worry about reading signs. And if I had been in the building alone, I would have just been able to evacuate. But I wasn't alone. And we got some guests out. And then a colleague who was in from our corporate office, David Frank, and I went to the stairs, and we started down. But the reality is that what I learned was that for me, I, in fact, was not talking about why I wasn't afraid. And I didn't teach people how to learn to control here. So we're writing a book about that. And, and so I'm, I'm realizing that what I can help people do is recognize that you can learn to control fear, it's not that it's going to go away. And if you tell me, you're never afraid, I won't buy it. But you can learn to use fear in a powerful way, rather than letting it as I put it, blind you or overwhelm you, Dr. Bob Wright ** 51:27 by preparing as you prepared the primary formula. First of all, we don't control it. But by preparing it doesn't grip us at the same level. We have pathways that we've already created. So you had created those pathways inside of yourself. And so sure you were afraid, but you had the fear motivating you along pathways for which you had prepared. Michael Hingson ** 51:51 That's right. Help others. That's right. And we did and at one point going down the stairs, David panicked and said, Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here and then and I just snapped at him. I'd love to joke about it and say, since I have a secondary teaching credential, I took that secret course voice 101 How to yell at students but you know, the the reality is that that what I did it I just snapped at David. I said, stop it, David, if Rosella and I can go down the stairs, so can you. And after that, he said, I'm going to I got to take my mind off of what's going on. And he walked the floor below me, went all the way down the stairs, he shouted up to me what he was seeing on the stairs. Now, did I need David to do that? No. But I knew that it would help David be more comfortable. But it had another effect, which again, was something that I figured out later. And that is that, as David was shouting up, hey, I'm at the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is, we're not going to stop we're going on down. People above us. And below us. Many, many floors hurt him. And he gave them something to focus on. And I think that he did so much, not even thinking about it or realizing it to help people not panic as we went down the stairs, which was so cool. Oh, I Dr. Bob Wright ** 53:07 just love it. So let's but let's go back. So, So fear is the primary the most basic emotion if you stay alive, sure. So you were afraid for him, not for you, but for him. And so you slapped him out of it. So you harvest your anger. So fear, fear, hurt, anger, sadness, and joy are the critical emotions that are fully foundational emotions. And so you have a relationship with your fear as few of us but in some ways, maybe. And you actually were able to harness anger as the crossover emotion between fear and joy. So you kept him alive, harnessing your anger to slap him out of it. And he became the leader he could become. Yeah. And needed. Michael Hingson ** 53:56 Right. Well, and that's it's part of the story that that I think is he's such an unsung hero and what happened on September 11, because I know he had to keep so many people focused because they had someone to focus on. And someone who they could hear who was all right, no matter where they were on the stairs. Somebody else was okay, somewhere. Dr. Bob Wright ** 54:21 So first of all, he was a leader right in relationship to you, Michael Hingson ** 54:25 by definition. Well, in some ways, yeah. Dr. Bob Wright ** 54:29 So you slapped him back into his leadership mode. And even though you didn't need it, he started leaving you in his own mind, but he was actually leaving everybody down those Michael Hingson ** 54:40 steps. He was, you know, that was one of the things that he did his he was only in for the day from our corporate office. But but he but you know, the two of us, between us there were a lot of ways people also said to me later, we followed you down the stairs because we heard you praising your dog and We heard you staying calm. So we were calm. We followed you. Yeah. So we, in a in a very well, unpredictable isn't the right word but a very subtle way we the two of us really helped a lot of people. Oh Dr. Bob Wright ** 55:15 my god, you guys formed the most amazing impromptu leadership team. Michael Hingson ** 55:19 Right. Holy cow. I Dr. Bob Wright ** 55:21 love it. Yeah. Well, isn't that cool? Oh, it's beyond cool. That is way beyond Cool. Michael Hingson ** 55:27 Well, this has been fun. We need to do it again. And we need to get Judith involved. So we got to do Dr. Bob Wright ** 55:33 another one of these. Absolutely looking forward to it. But Michael Hingson ** 55:37 I really appreciate you being here. And I want to thank you and I want to thank you all for listening to us today. I hope that you enjoyed it. And and you heard Bob analyze me a little bit and it was a lot of fun and No, no problem at all. So we'll have to do more of it and and have another time together which I think would be fun. But I want to thank you for listening to us. Love to hear your comments. Please reach out. You can reach me Mike hingson at and my email address is Michael h i m i c h a e l h i at accessiBe A c c e s s i b e.com. Michael h i at accessibe.com Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael Hingson m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com/podcast love to get your thoughts please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to us. We value that and really appreciate all that you have to say. Bob if people want to reach out to you how do they do that? Dr. Bob Wright ** 56:37 Well my website for now until we put them all together is Bob Wrightdot com or D r. B o b W r i g h t dot com My email, which is easier right now we're in transition. The new company, as you heard will be live right with Judith and Bob. But right now D r. B, o b at Judith and bob.com D R B O B at J U D I T A N D B .com. Cool. Michael Hingson ** 57:04 Well, thanks again for doing this. It has been fun. And let us definitely set up another time and do another one of these. Dr. Bob Wright ** 57:13 We've got more to talk about in so many ways, sooner than later while we're still putting together the web universe. Michael Hingson ** 57:20 Perfect. Glad to do it. Well, thanks again for being here. Dr. Bob Wright ** 57:23 Thank you so much. **Michael Hingson ** 57:28 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

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104: How Deep Work Can Enhance Your Business with David Frank

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Play Episode Listen Later Jun 4, 2024 51:59

What is deep work, and how can it help your business? Linzy and guest David Frank dive into what deep work means to them and how they each incorporate deep work into their work lives. David and Linzy discuss how adopting deep work and digital minimalism, concepts introduced by author Cal Newport, have transformed their work lives and enhanced the quality of their work.Linzy and David have different approaches to deep work in their schedule, which they discuss, and they both share specific, practical ideas about how intentional focus on deep work can enhance the work lives and financial well-being of health professionals. For more about the concepts discussed in this episode, check out Cal Newport's website. For a full transcript of the episode and much more, check out the blog post on our website! To watch a video version of this, check it out on YouTube: https://youtu.be/9QXcUBV2BMkConnect with DavidDavid Frank has a lot of free resources on his website, like his blog posts about retirement, or his finance quick start guide for therapists. Check those out here. Find David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwfrank/ FREE Money Momentum Challenge Are you avoiding your private practice finances, because you feel completely overwhelmed by them, and you have no idea where to even begin?I'm hosting a FREE, live, 4-day Money Momentum Challenge from June 18th to the 21st, where you'll get my support and guidance to step out of avoidance, take real action, and create ease and flow around your private practice finances.In just 5-10 minutes each day, you'll complete one small task that will help you move from money avoidance to financial clarity. And as a bonus for participating and completing the simple daily tasks, you'll be entered into a draw to win daily prizes. Plus, one lucky therapist or health practitioner who completes the challenge will have a chance to win the grand prize of $500 cash! Are you in?I can't wait to see you inside! Sign up for the FREE Money Momentum Challenge here Have a question for Linzy for the Feelings & Finances episodes? Click here: https://www.speakpipe.com/MoneySkillsForTherapists

Terrific Tax Tips For Therapists ft. David Frank

Productive Therapist Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later May 17, 2024 40:05

As a business owner, knowing how to organize your taxes can be vital to the continued health and growth of your practice. Could you do with a few good financial pointers, tailored to therapy practices? Me too! Join me in as chat with my good friend, David Frank from Turning Point HQ, as he shares some super-helpful tips you can use today. Click to listen now!

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From the Locker Room to the Laugh Track: The Life Lessons of High School Sports with David Frank

Ride Home Rants

Play Episode Listen Later May 15, 2024 49:44 Transcription Available

Send us a Text Message.Dive headfirst into the heart and hustle of high school sports with David Frank, an Erie native with a playbook full of wisdom from his coaching career, which spans the fields of Pennsylvania to the courts of North Carolina. This episode is an intimate huddle that will have you reminiscing about the golden days of high school athletics and the coaches that shaped us. We're tackling everything from the cultural melting pot of sports loyalties in Erie, to the emotional rollercoaster of rooting for the underdog Pittsburgh teams. David, with his rich storytelling, brings to life the stark contrasts and unifying spirit that mark the high school sports scene.Laughter and strategy collide as we examine the parallels between commanding a football team and commanding a stage. It's a discussion that's as profound as it is entertaining, with David's journey as a coach shedding light on the art of connection. We share memories of athletes who chased college dreams alongside those who played for sheer love, and celebrate the unexpected joys of delivering punchlines to unconventional audiences. If you ever wondered how the lessons of the locker room might just be the secret to killing it in comedy, you're in for a treat.As we round off this episode, we embrace the essence of mentorship in coaching, revealing how the game goes beyond X's and O's to the heart of personal relationships. From David's encounters with powerhouse football programs to the touching tale of Thanksgiving generosity, this is more than just a conversation about sStupid Should Hurt Link to my Merch store the Stupid Should Hurt Line!Reaper Apparel Reaper Apparel Co was built for those who refuse to die slowly! Reaper isn't just clothing it's a lifestyle!Subscribe for exclusive content: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1530455/support Big Labia EnergyBig Labs Pod harnesses the big labia energy of three comics at varying stages of...Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify MonstrosityMonstrosity has celebrity guests, deep paranormal discussions, and comedy gold.Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifyTactical BrotherhoodThe Tactical Brotherhood is a movement to support America.Sweet Hands SportsElevate your game with Sweet Hands Sports! Our sports gloves are designed for champions,Dubby EnergyFROM GAMERS TO GYM JUNKIES TO ENTREPRENEURS, OUR PRODUCT IS FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BE BETTER.ShankitgolfOur goal here at Shankitgolf is for everyone to have a great time on and off the golf courseDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the Show.

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#45 - Celibate and Affirming Side A: Tim Otto on Christian Unity and Gay Marriage

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Play Episode Listen Later May 15, 2024 82:30

Tim Otto is a man of intentional commitments: he lives in intentional Christian community; he pastors a church in San Francisco; he's also gay and celibate, while still affirming gay marriage (Side A). Tim talked with co-hosts TJ and David Frank about his book Oriented to Faith, compassionate approaches, “third way” communities and “disputable” theological differences, celibate partnerships, and the importance of close community living.Tim was a kind and engaging dialogue partner and we loved having this conversation with him! No matter where you land on the faith and sexuality topics, we hope our discussion ministers to you also.About Our GuestTim Otto has lived in an intentional Christian community called Church of the Sojourners for 34 years and is one of its co-pastors. He has a Master of Theology degree from Duke Divinity School, is the author of Oriented to Faith: Transforming the Conflict over Gay Relationships, and loves walking around the Mission District of San Francisco, where he lives. You can find his recent writing on Substack at “Living in Extraordinary Love”: https://timotto.substack.com—Note: We use the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you're new to the conversation, we recommend listening to our episode #3, “A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality.” Here's a quick summary:* "Side A" generally refers to the perspective that affirms God can bless same-sex marriage and sexual relationships.* “Side B” recognizes people experience same-sex sexual attraction and may describe that experience by a variety of words or identity terms while still holding to the historical Christian sexual ethic of marriage between a man and a woman, and sex within marriage.Timestamps(1:13) Tim's book: encouraging dialogue and love across sides(8:03) Idolatry of the "traditional family"(16:11) Taking a vow of celibacy as a side A gay man(21:38) Our takes: on the authority and continuity of Scripture(34:27) What traditionalist viewpoints do you find most compelling?(38:54) What has moved you toward an affirming position?(42:55) Are celibate partnerships gnostic?(52:56) What makes a healthy/acceptable marriage? (same-sex, polyamory, polygamy…)(1:07:18) How does San Francisco influence you?(1:14:24) Bonus question: the "common purse" in Tim's communityLinks and ReferencesFor your easier searching…* Sacred Cows: Exploring Contemporary Idolatry by J.A. Walter* The Drama of Scripture: Finding Our Place in the Biblical Story by Craig Bartholemew and Michael Goheen* Kevin Vanhoozer, theologian* Tenderness: A Gay Christian's Guide to Unlearning Rejection and Experiencing God's Extravagant Love by Eve Tushnet* “Century of the Self” documentary is on Youtube* Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul'sIf you like this podcast, please consider…→ Sharing feedback or questions! communionandshalom@gmail.com→ Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→ Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit communionshalom.substack.com

EP19 S03: Jenna Walkinstick

Inchunwa

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 21, 2024 109:31

ANNNNDD WE'RE BACK! In this episode continue the third series where we speak with southeastern folks who have received and bear their traditional tattoos. This time we're speaking with guest Jenna Walkingstick (Cherokee) and guest hosts Lisa Fruichantie (Seminole/Mvskoke) and Angie Comeaux (Mvskoke/Choctaw). We cover a range of topics including Jenna and Lisa's experiences receiving and bearing traditional southeastern facial tattoos, positive and negative experiences around receiving traditional tattoos, body sovereignty, accountability, diversity in NDN country, interconnectedness to land and of tribal nations, the role of plants, and more! Additionally we make some major announcements:Lisa Fruichantie has become the first Executive Director of Inchunwa!She'll be representing Inchunwa at the Bioneers conference in Berkeley Inchunwa will be at Indigi Pop X (IPX) April 12th-14th at the First American's Museum in Oklahoma City! We'll have a booth the whole time and will have educational and interactive activities - and maybe even a chance to experience what it might be like (briefly) to bear traditional designs. Like the Indigenous Futurisms Festival back in June of 2023, Brit'll be doing a live food demo on Saturday April 13th. On Sunday April 14th, Inchunwa will host a panel with Chickasaw Artist Dustin Mater (@dustign); Cherokee Artist Keli Gonzales (@sideshow_kel); Cherokee & Mvskoke Tattoo Practitioner and Actress Nathalie Standingcloud (@nattatt8); Chickasaw Artist & Language Advocate Faithlyn Seawright (@faithlyntaloaseawright); Mvskoke Artist & former Inchunwa podcast guest host Brit Postoak (@brittpostoak); Seminole elder & knowledge keeper David Frank; Seminole Nation member & Inchunwa Executive Director Lisa Fruichantie (@fruichantie), and Choctaw descendant and Inchunwa team member Brit Reed (@nitaohoyo). The panel will last for two hours with an intermission and a Q&A. Get your tickets at https://indigenouscomiccon.com/. In May, the Inchunwa Project leadership will be hosting a retreat focused on the design and build of our apprenticeship program. This closed gathering will include a diverse cross section of SE tribal culture bearers and wisdom keepers and made possible by a grant from the Southern Movement Media Fund.To celebrate officially stepping into the second phase of Inchunwa and the amazing things to come, we will be hosting a raffle that will begin Saturday March 23, 2024 and end Friday March 29th, 2024. This raffle is a two night stay at the Golden Moon Hotel & Casino in Choctaw, Mississippi. In addition to the two night stay at the Golden Moon Hotel & Casino, it includes dinner for two at Phillip M's, Breakfast for two at The Bistro, and - most excitedly 1 round of golf for two at Dancing Rabbit Golf Club and/or Spa Treatment for two at The Spa. Raffle tickets are $20 eachProceeds will be going towards raising funds for the creation and development of the traditional tattoo apprenticeship program and building the Inchunwa Project admin & capacity structure for key items such as a website. Package can be used any time up to April 30th, 2024. As travel to Choctaw, MS will not be included, we encourage folks who live close enough to drive or are able to purchase airline tickets before April 30th, 2024 to participate. To purchase raffle tickets, go to our paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/inchunwaPlease include your email and social media handles in the description so that we can alert you if you win.

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David Frank Spanbauer

Almost Fiction

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 27, 2024 34:53

David Frank Spanbauer could be the poster child for recidivism. A man who never felt bad for what he did, just looked forward, towards a day when he would be able to do whatever he wanted. He already knew he'd be out again, it was just a matter of… time. SOURCES: David Spanbauer, Serial Child Killer and Rapist by James Card, from crimelibrary.org. David Frank Spanbauer v. John C. Burke, Warden, Wisconsin State Prison, 374 F.2d 67 (7th Cir. 1966) Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, Filed: December 28th, 1966‘Pure evil' serial killer Spanbauer dead at 61, By Dan Wilson and Ed Culhane - Appleton Post-Crescent July 30, 2002Access ad-free episodes, bonus content, and get all of the 11:59 Media Podcast library!Access hours of extra content each week, exclusive merch, and early access to new podcasts.Visit https://1159plus.com

How to Build a High Growth Fintech Platform

Innovation and Leadership

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 31, 2024 36:03

Join Jess Larsen as he chats with financial maestro David Frank, CEO of Stonehaven, about the art and complexity of capital raising and investor relations. In this episode, David unravels the workings behind Stonehaven's innovative platform that supports a vast network of investment professionals. He reveals pivotal strategies for surpassing $10 billion in transactions, the role of detailed data in selecting the right projects, the anatomy of an effective pitch, and the growing importance of a strong online professional profile in the digital age. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#39 - Building Households and Communities Together: A Workshop with David and Elena (Recorded Live at Revoice 2023)

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Play Episode Listen Later Jan 10, 2024 51:19

David Frank (you know him) and Elena (podcast manager) gave a workshop talk at Revoice 2023. It was pretty great, and also, predictably, hit-or-miss with sound quality. Enjoy! __________ Links and References The Life We're Looking For: Reclaiming Relationship in a Technological World by Andy Crouch (publisher's link) Our workshop presentation: [Link to Google presentation] Our worksheet and resources handout: [Link to Google doc] __________ If you like this podcast, please consider… →Sharing feedback or questions! www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact →Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom →Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom — Credits Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com) Podcast Manager: Elena

Embracing Emotions for Financial Wellness with David Frank